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Dr. Deb Muth 00:08What if the toxins in your food and water weren’t just harming our bodies, but rewriting the very code of human health? My guest today, MIT scientist Dr. Stephanie Sineff, has spent over a decade connecting the dots between environmental toxins, metabolic chaos, and neurological decline. You’ll want to hear every word of this conversation. You guys can put our, Serenity ad in here, and then I’ll do the standard intro.Welcome back to Let’s Talk Wellness Now, the show where we uncover the root causes of chronic illness, explore cutting-edge regenerative medicine, and empower you with the tools to heal. I’m Dr. Deb, your medical detective.And today, we’re diving into how environmental toxins and nutritional imbalances are silently shaping chronic disease patterns, from autoimmune disorders to neurodegenerative decline. And how we can take back control of our health. So, as usual, grab your cup of coffee, tea, or whatever helps you unwind, settle in, and let’s get started on your journey to deeper healing. So, Dr. Sunif, so glad to have you here. I can’t wait to have this conversation with you. We were just chatting off-camera a few seconds ago about what we’re going to chat about, but tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into this field of looking at toxins and mitochondria. Seneff 01:50Okay, yeah, my background is a bit eclectic, so it starts out with biology. I have an undergraduate degree in biology from MIT. My PhD is in electrical engineering and computer science, so that’s quite a switchover. And most of my career, I was writing computer code to train computers to talk to humans in a natural conversation… conversational interaction with computers. We were pioneers in that space. You can see that it has really taken off now. And actually, by 2006, 2007, I started to realize that the kind of work I did already then was getting compromised by the, by the emergence of AI. And I got concerned that, I wouldn’t be able to sustain the path I was on. And it’s happening now, of course, to the young… many people, young people today, are facing a crisis in computer science, because it used to be if you had skills in hacking code, you were good to go, you know, and that’s just not true anymore, so that’s another whole story, but anyway, I decided I needed to do something different, and I pivoted in a big way in 2007. managed to get the company that had been funding me, a Taiwanese company called Quanta Computers, And they,We’re willing to switch over to funding me to do research on health and toxic chemical exposures. Which was a miracle that they let… they let me switch over to that, and that was fantastic, 2007. So it’s been almost 20 years. that I’ve been looking for toxic chemical exposures and their association with human disease. And I focused initially on autism and heart disease, kind of for personal reasons, because I knew people who had, you know, who had those issues.But it led into a much, much bigger story, and I’m super excited about what’s happened over the last 20 years. It’s been a continual learning experience for me, and I’ve just kept broadening my space in biology, furiously reading papers as I discovered new concepts and trying to explore those. opening up new windows, and it’s just been a profusion of learning over the past 20 years, and I’ve published many papers at this point. Peer-reviewed papers on the topics of toxic chemical exposures and disease. Particularly, glyphosate is the one I really focused on, and I wrote the book, Toxic Legacy, how the weed killer glyphosate is Destroying Our Health and the Environment.That was published in 2021. So. Dr. Deb Muth 04:18So I’m sure you have a few thoughts about the administration wanting to bring that back to be made at home instead of China, right? Seneff 04:26I know, that’s so interesting. And actually, you know, he makes a point that I agree with, which is that we are relying on China. for importing a whole bunch of stuff that’s really toxic, and we’re pouring it all over our food supply, so China’s probably very happy to poison us, you know? Oh, absolutely. It’s kind of ironic that we’re doing that, and he makes a good point that we shouldn’t be relying on China for these chemicals that are poisoning us, but where he misses the point is he says, well, we just need to poison ourselves, you know? Rather than getting rid of that chemical, we need to really change the way we grow food.I think it’s the number one most important thing right now. in America is to change the way we grow food, and it has to be certified organic, regenerative. We need to focus on healing the soil, just as we have to heal the gut. I mean, we’ve really messed up the microbes in both the soil and the gut, and the consequences, as you can see, are a huge problem with human disease. Dr. Deb Muth 05:20They’re devastating. I mean, we have so much chronic illness and so much neurological disease these days, and just the rise of autism, it should be telling us that we’re doing something wrong, right? Seneff 05:31Absolutely. Dr. Deb Muth 05:32We have a problem. For those people who are listening that don’t understand what the term glyphosate is, can you explain that a little bit to them? Seneff 05:39Yeah, so it’s one of the many herbicides that we use. We use herbicides, fungicides, and insecticides in agriculture, all these poisons, and it kind of seems crazy to me that we would think it’s okay to pour poisons all over our food supply. I don’t understand why we think that’s fine.Yeah. You know, categorically. Glyphosate is supposed to be a wonderful chemical, because it’s an herbicide that kills all plants except for those that have been engineered to resist it. And supposedly is completely harmless to humans. And that’s what gets to be, you know, disbelief, because how can something so toxic to plants be harmless to humans? Just, how can it be? Dr. Deb Muth 06:14We haven’t been re-engineered like the seeds that they use from Monsanto, so how can it not affect us if it only affects everything but their seeds that they’ve modified to make grow beautifully under that condition? It doesn’t make any sense. Seneff 06:32Right, and of course, the critical thing they missed is that our gut microbes do have that pathway. It’s the chicken mate pathway that it disrupts. Really critical in all the plants, and in most of the microbes. In the soil and in the gut, and so it kills off the microbes as well as the plants, and when it kills off your gut microbes, you gotta watch out, because gut dysbiosis is a huge thing. And we’ve had so many papers coming out lately that Talking about the relationship between gut dysbiosis and all kinds of different diseases. Dr. Deb Muth 07:01Do you think that’s why we see so much gut dysbiosis these days? Seneff 07:04Oh, absolutely. I think it’s not just glyphosate, because we have lots of poisons that are messing up our gut microbes, but glyphosate is a really big one, because the shikimate pathway is essential for many of the microbes, and they use it to make essential nutrients for the host. So we get compromised as well, just because they can’t make those nutrients in that. Dr. Deb Muth 07:22It’s so… Seneff 07:22lies. Dr. Deb Muth 07:23so much harder today to treat people with gut issues than it was 25 years ago when I started. It was so much easier. And now, it’s, like, nearly impossible sometimes to get some of these people back to a good, healthy gut microbiome, no matter what you do, no matter how well they eat, and all the things that they do. It’s a struggle, for sure, compared to what it was 20 years ago. Seneff 07:44It’s interesting that you have that personal experience, because I think people like you really can see what’s happening. Dr. Deb Muth 07:49and appreciate. Seneff 07:50the difference between then and now. I, of course, as a child, autism was not something I knew about at all. Really, when I was a child. It didn’t exist, basically. I mean, it was so rare. And now, you know, everyone knows someone with autism, you know, pretty much. Dr. Deb Muth 08:08Autism and Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s seems to be just so much commonplace. Everybody knows somebody in their family that is affected by one of those disorders, if not multiples, and We tend to say it’s genetic, right? Well, there’s got to be a genetic… why wasn’t it genetic 50 years ago, or 100 years ago? But now, all of a sudden, it’s so prevalent in our environment that we’ve just become acceptable of it, and I think that’s wrong for us to do that. We shouldn’t be doing that. Seneff 08:38I know. I find it very interesting how quickly it appears that humans adapt to the new normal, you know? Dr. Deb Muth 08:44Yeah. Seneff 08:45It’s normal that you have, you know. 3% of the kids have autism, that’s normal, you know? It’s just like, no, it’s not. And also, of course, all the Alzheimer’s and dementia and Parkinson’s, as you mentioned, in the elderly, those are connected, because they’re all related to brain problems that are being caused by chemicals that are destroying the brain. Dr. Deb Muth 09:03Yeah. So, how does glyphosphate interact with our body’s ability to absorb those essential nutrients, like sulfur? Seneff 09:12Yeah, well, it’s… that’s a big… that’s a big question. I don’t know where to begin with that one. Glyphosate, you know, it’s a train wreck for the gut microbes, and then that causes the gut dysbiosis. The microbes are unable to produce adequate amounts of nutrients that are essential for the host. And as a consequence, the host cells get sick, you know, so the colonocytes get sick because they’re not getting adequate nutrition. Because the microbes can’t produce the nutrition they normally would produce. I think that’s a good summary of what’s going on. You get inflammation in the gut.And then the inflammation causes immune reactions, so you get the immune cells coming in, and they create inflammation, you know, it’s just like there’s a kind of a festering going on in there that’s really a train wreck for the whole system. Dr. Deb Muth 09:58Do we see different, results with things like this in Europe, where they’re not allowed to use a lot of these chemicals that we’re allowed to use here? Seneff 10:07Yeah, they are allowed, but it’s much, much less there. My friend, Tony Mitra got his government, Canada, to do a test… to do a big test of over 8,000 samples, food samples, to get… look for glyphosate. U.S. government doesn’t bother to test for glyphosate, because they consider it to be safe.We know it’s all over our food supply from work by people like Zen Honeycutt. My friend Zan Honeycutt of Moms Across America has really been on a mission to test all kinds of different food samples for glyphosate and finding it extensive in our food supply, in the school lunches. in the fast food restaurants and the food that’s fed to the Army. She’s done all these different studies, breast milk. Wines, you know, all the wines were contaminated, even the biodynamic, which are organic.Had small amounts of glyphosate, so it’s just like it’s all over the food supply. Canada did 8,000 samples. Tony Beecher finally got them to do that after many years of harassing them, and then he published the results in a book called Poison Foods of North America, because they found that they had imports from Europe, imports from Mexico, imports from the U.S, And basically, the U.S. and Canada came out way on top, as far as overall, the numbers were much higher in those two countries. And Mexico lined up with Europe, which was quite interesting to me. So, you know, you’re better off if you buy food from Mexico. Dr. Deb Muth 11:31Yeah, and I wouldn’t have thought that, I would have thought that was different. Seneff 11:34And I know you often think that Mexican food is not going to be as carefully regulated, and you might get some kind of, toxin. You don’t expect Mexican food to be healthier than American, but it is. Dr. Deb Muth 11:44Yeah. Yeah, can you talk a little bit about deuterium? What is deuterium? Seneff 11:51Okay, that’s a good place to start. Yeah, deuterium… I am absolutely fascinated with deuterium, and I believe that the team of researchers that I’m working with, we are on to something really huge. I’m super, super excited. I almost can’t contain my excitement with this, because once we started looking, it’s just like everything made so much sense. Everything kind of came together. In terms of metabolism, and disruptive metabolism, and all the stuff that’s going on in the gut. It really, really makes sense. Deuterium is heavy hydrogen. It’s a natural element. Hydrogen is the smallest element, the upper left corner of the periodic table. One proton and one electron, and it’s by far the most common atom in the universe.And in our body, as well, by far the most common atom in our body, and it’s involved in all the chemical reactions that take place. And so, you know, have carbohydrates. The hydrates is hydrogen, you know, in the word carbon, hydrogen, carbohydrates. And of course, carbohydrates are, you know, basic foods. So anyway, deuterium has an extra neutron. It’s just like carbon-14, so carbon-12, carbon-14 is a little bit heavier. It’s got 14 instead of 12. It has extra neutrons. So there are these kind of isotopes of various atoms, but hydrogen has hydrogen, deuterium, and tritium. Tritium has two extra neutrons. It’s very rare, and deuterium has one extra neutron, and it’s rare compared to hydrogen, but it’s not rare, because hydrogen’s so common. So it’s actually present in the blood at five times the level of calcium, for example. Dr. Deb Muth 13:24Oh. Seneff 13:25So it’s not rare, but it’s a very interesting atom that has caused us trouble in the mitochondria. Dr. Deb Muth 13:32Is it actually considered a toxin? Seneff 13:34It’s a natural element, you know. I mean, you have natural elements that are toxic, you know, like some of those metals, like mercury, for example, is a natural element, but it’s toxic, so it’s not a chemical, it’s not a chemical, you know, not made in the chemical lab. It’s just an atom. And it’s all over the universe. It’s not like you can avoid it, or you can, you know, you can’t get rid of it. It’s everywhere. And so it’s a natural part of biology, and our biology has evolved. to very, very clever ways to protect the mitochondria from deuterium. So the thing is, mitochondria have ATPase, which makes ATP, and ATP is the universal… it’s the energy source for the cell.ATP. It’s made in the mitochondria, very, very important, oxidative phosphorylation, you know, that’s sort of basic in biology. And, those ATPase pumps, depend upon hydrogen flowing through the pumps to generate, motor force to make the ATP.And they pile up the hydrogen inside an inner membrane space. They’re kind of cute. The mitochondria have this internal matrix in the hole, like a donut hole. The matrix is where a lot of activity is going on. And then there’s a membrane, but the membrane has both an outer membrane and an inner membrane. So there’s an intermembrane space where the mitochondria dump a lot of protons. They make… put lots and lots of protons in there, and then the protons naturally come out through basic… through basic physics, they come out, and the pumps are there to grab the energy as the protons come out. It’s quite cool. Go back into the matrix. the protons go back into the matrix. So what the body does is it tries to keep deuterons out of those… out of that intermembrane space. It tries really hard not to put deuterons in there. So deuterons are the equivalent of protons.You know, proteom is the normal hydrogen, and then deuterium is the… is the one with the extra neutron that makes it twice as heavy. So because it’s twice as heavy, it behaves very, very differently. It’s kind of like a big, bulky thing coming through the pumps, and it can clobber them. It can really mess them up.And the body knows that, and so the body has designed incredibly elegant mechanisms to keep the deuterium levels inside that inner membrane space as low as possible. the body obsesses on that. And once you realize that, all of a sudden, lots and lots of things make sense in terms of looking at biochemistry and what’s going on. All kinds of things that didn’t make sense before suddenly come. clear… clear… are motivated by this idea of avoiding deuterium in the inner membrane space. So it’s really, really fascinating biology. Dr. Deb Muth 16:08So does the glyphosate tend to increase the deuterium in that space, or does it disrupt it? Seneff 16:16It definitely increases it, and the reason why is because it disrupts the enzymes that manage it. And so, for example. So this, I have to get into hydrogen gas and microbial production of hydrogen gas, which is central to the story. And you know, people get gashy, they have, like, bloating and stuff, there’s a lot. Dr. Deb Muth 16:34echo. Seneff 16:34That’s because those gases that are being made by the microbes are unable to be brought back into organic matter. So normally the microbes make lots and lots of gas, and they start with hydrogen gas, and they make methane gas, they make hydrogen sulfide gas, and they make all these gases. And then they use those gases as reducing agents to come back and make organic matter. So they basically convert food into basic gases, like hydrogen and carbon dioxide, right? And then they take the carbon dioxide and hydrogen to convert it back into food. And the reason why they do that is because the process of making the gas tremendously strips out the deuterium. This is absolutely central, I think, to metabolism.And it’s not something very many people are aware of. The microbes make the hydrogen gas. And when they do that, they lose 80% of the deuterium, because the deuterium tends to stay in the aqueous space, because it’s too heavy. You just think of, you know, trying to lift out… if you’re twice as heavy, it’s a lot harder to get out of the liquid into the air. You know, so basically to make the gas. When you make the gas, you lose a lot of the deuterium. And that is super, super central, I think, to metabolism. Dr. Deb Muth 17:47So, if that’s what’s happening inside of there, it’s obviously creating metabolism issues. What does that mean for energy and mitochondrial health, then? Seneff 17:58Well, what happens is that the microbes are unable to make enough of those nutrients that are super for the host that have low deuterium. And a particular one that I have in mind is butyrate. And I don’t know if you know anything about butyrate. Dr. Deb Muth 18:10Yeah. Seneff 18:12But it’s a very healthy resource for the gut. The colonocytes lining the gut, 80% of their food is butyrate. They love butyrate, normally. But lots of people have butyrate deficiency in their gut. And that deficiency is due to the fact that the microbes can’t make the hydrogen gas, because when they make the hydro… or they can’t bring the hydrogen gas back in to make. Dr. Deb Muth 18:34Beautiful. Seneff 18:35Because a butyrate comes from the hydrogen gas that’s produced by the gut microbes. Dr. Deb Muth 18:39So, if we supplement with N-butyrate, does that help that process work better, or does it not really do much with the deuterium, then? Seneff 18:48Well, there’s a big question with supplements, and I’m really starting to appreciate this more. You know, I always like natural, right? Natural versus synthetic. And I think there’s a huge difference. For many of these supplements that are popular, there’s a huge difference between natural and synthetic. Yeah. And that big difference has to do with the level of deuterium, because if it’s made synthetically. It’s not going to be depleted in deuterium. So when you’re taking… and I don’t know butyrate, you have to go and look at how they manufacture it to see if it comes from natural or synthetic ingredients. It’s extremely interesting with… I’ve looked into some of these other nutrients that people like to take as supplements. Choline by tartrate is one that I really was fascinated with, because… and there are papers that show that if you take choline by tartrate as a supplement… so choline, of course, is a very important nutrient, a lot ofAre deficient, especially if they’re vegetarian. And choline bitartrate is a synthetic form of choline. And, choline bitartrate, if you take… the studies have shown There’s a beautiful study that had people who ate a bunch of eggs, you know, because eggs are high in choline, and then they had people who took choline by tartrate to get an equivalent amount of choline in their diet compared to the eggs, right? And the people who ate the eggs were fine, and the people who ate the choline bitartrate were not. They had a very big increase in a metabolite called trimethylamine oxide, TMAO. Dr. Deb Muth 20:13in the. Seneff 20:14in the blood. And TMAO is a risk factor for a huge number of diseases, you know, all the usual suspects, the diabetes, the cholesterol, the heart disease, cancer, all kinds of diseases. Dr. Deb Muth 20:26TMA over. Seneff 20:26is a very interesting molecule that’s been studied quite a bit recently. There’s a lot of papers on it. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it, TMAO . Dr. Deb Muth 20:32I have, yeah. Seneff 20:33Yeah, okay. Well, that one is a… it’s very, very interesting, and I have a paper that I’m trying to get published right now that I’m quite proud of that talks about all of this, but they found that when you eat the eggs and get the choline that way, you’re fine, but if you take the choline bichartrate, you’re not. You get all this TMAO. And the reason, I think, is because the microbes… the microbes make TMA from choline. the trimethylamine. Choline has a nitrogen atom with 3 methyls attached to it, and those methyls are going to be really low in deuterium. Because they’re part of the methylation pathway, which microbes make sure those methyls are low in deuterium. So all the whole methylation pathways, I think, is a distribution system to deliver low deuterium nutrients throughout the body, not just in the gut. You know, and the body has all these ways of hooking methyls onto things. Dr. Deb Muth 21:26and take it. Seneff 21:26them off, and when it takes them off, it metabolizes them in the mitochondria, delivering to them low deuterium nutrient. So, so when you take the choline bitartrate, and it’s not low deuterium, what happens is you end up with molecules of TMA, trimethylamine, that have deuterium in them. And when you have those, they won’t… the microbes won’t metabolize them, they won’t turn them back into hydrogen. You know, deuterium depleted hydrogen, they won’t do it. So they stick around, the TMA doesn’t get metabolized, and then it gets sent to the liver, the liver turns it into TMAO, and now you’ve got your problem. And I think TMAO is a marker for deuterium overload in the mitochondria, in the methylation pathways. Dr. Deb Muth 22:06That’s interesting that you’re talking about that. I belong to a group, and we’ve been researching plosmalogen therapy, and one of the supplements that was created was created with a large amount of phospholine. And,And by itself, when we used the phospholine in one of our formulations, it wasn’t bad, but when they doubled the dose and they were putting it in all of their formulations, people were starting to see the TMO levels go up. And we were trying to figure out, like, what’s happening here. It wasn’t everybody, but it was a good chunk of people, enough for us to say, hey, something needs to change here. We need to take out this phospholine, or not use as much of it. But now this explains exactly why the TAMO was going up. And if those people do have a lot of deuterium, maybe why we saw some people have a problem with it, but not everybody had a problem with it. Seneff 22:57It depends on their microbes. If their microbes are healthy enough to be able to metabolize the TMA, they’re fine. And the microbes produce the TMA, and then they metabolize it. And they’re doing that to generate more deuterium-depleted nutrients. They’re constantly trying to come up with new nutrients that are deuterium-depleted to feed to the host. I mean, they’re really obsessed with it. And they do a good job, normally, but they get so messed up by all these chemicals, and not just glyphosate, of course, all the chemicals in our food and in the air, it’s a mess, you know? Dr. Deb Muth 23:26It’s amazing the body works as well as it does. Seneff 23:28It is. I really am surprised that we don’t have more people who are super sick, you know? Dr. Deb Muth 23:33Exactly. Seneff 23:33Not for sure, but some of us are doing okay with it, you know? Dr. Deb Muth 23:37Yeah, exactly. So when we have this high level of deuterium, high levels of glyphosphate, what is that going to do to the body’s energy stores? Seneff 23:46well, it’s going to wreck the mitochondria, and then you’re going to get chronic fatigue. I mean, I think chronic fatigue syndrome, to me, is a very clear example of mitochondrial damage due to excess deuterium. I think that can completely explain that disease. Dr. Deb Muth 24:01Do you think this high level of deuterium is causing people to see more neurological diseases as well, like Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s? It’s fueling it. Seneff 24:11Absolutely, because the brain has so much dependence on energy, you know, the brain uses a lot of energy, and they need really healthy mitochondria. They have… neurons have lots of mitochondria. Neurons and muscle cells really, you know, are loaded up with mitochondria, and both of them get injured when they don’t have a… when they can’t keep deuterium out of the mitochondria. Dr. Deb Muth 24:30The cells. Seneff 24:31get injured by all the reactive oxygen the mitochondria are producing, which the ATPase pumps, once they’re getting contaminated with all that deuterium, they start spewing out reactive oxygen. It kills the mitochondria, then it kills the cell, then it kills the brain, you know? It’s like a progression. It really starts with the mitochondrial damage, and then the cell dies, and once the neurons start dying, then the brain dies, you know, and you’ve got all. symptoms. Dr. Deb Muth 24:55So can we measure deuterium like we can glyphosphate in the body? Seneff 24:59You can, yes. In fact, you can do a saliva test and send it off and get the… get a level of how much deuterium is in your saliva. I would love to know more… in more detail how much deuterium is in different parts of the body, because that’s really interesting to me from my studies. What I’m suspecting is that the body… so the cells actually dump deuterium outside the cell. That to try to get as little deuterium as possible inside the cell. And within the cell, they’re trying to get as little deuterium as possible inside the mitochondria. So there’s layers of trying to get rid of the deuterium. And so the convenient thing is to dump the deuterium outside the cell. So there’s a lot of deuterium in bones, for example, probably in your skin, you know, any kind of exterior materials. And the sort of glycocalyx, so there’s this glycocalyx that lines all the blood vessels.That’s these sort of complicated sulfated sugar… complex sugar molecules that, that create gelled water. this gets into Gerald Pollack’s work. I don’t know if you know anything about Gerald Pollack and gelled water, but that’s quite a fascinating field all by itself. But it has to do with really fascinating stuff, because Gerald Pollack talks about battery… a battery being created by the gel. He’s done a lot of research on gelled water. You know, like jello, for example.And you put some powder, you put some hot boiling water, you let it sit, it gels up. It’s mostly water, but it’s a funny phase of water. It’s called the… he calls it the fourth phase of water. He wrote a whole book about that. Gerald Pollack did. And, it’s a gel phase, so water has, you know, the liquid, the solid, the gas, and then the gel. And… and most of the water in our body is gel, is gelled. And especially all the water lining the blood vessels. The blood vessels have free-flowing blood in the middle, right? Dr. Deb Muth 26:46in the long… Seneff 26:46the edges, they have this gelled water that’s created by these sulfated glycos… I mean, the glycans, they’re called, complicated word there, but… They create the gelled water, and the gel… actually, what Pollock showed is that the gel becomes negatively charged, and it pushes out protons. It pushes protons out into the blood. And it ends up being negatively charged because of that. And it creates a battery, and that battery is a source of energy, so… so you can think of, the gel as being like a battery supporting the entire body. All the gel in the blood is a battery. It’s a giant battery. And when you get exposed to sunlight, the gel grows in volume by a lot, and so when the gel gets bigger, it gets to be a bigger battery, and it’s capturing the energy in sunlight. It’s like a solar panel. your skin is like a solar panel, capturing the energy in the sunlight and converting it into this energy in that gel that pushes out those protons. And the cool thing is the deuterons tend to stay behind Because, It’s a little bit of interesting physics here when you have a water molecule, could have one deuterium, one hydrogen, and an oxygen. Water is H2O, right? It would be HDO, one hydrogen, one deuterium, and oxygen, right? HGO. And when you separate that out, usually you separate water out into OH- and H+, right, when you pull it apart into ions. OH minus and H+. Well, what happens here is that the deuterium sticks harder to the oxygen. than the hydrogen does. So you get OD- and H+. more often than OH minus and D+. Dr. Deb Muth 28:22So you have a lot fewer D pluses inside that gel. Seneff 28:26And the H pluses go out into the blood, and the D pluses are… the Ds are stuck to the oxygen, so they don’t go out. So you end up, actually, that’s a sort of distillation process that pulls healthy proteins out of the gel, into the blood. And that makes the blood levels of deuterium lower. Do you see what I’m saying? The deuterium gets trapped in the gel. And the deuterium gets trapped in bone in the same way, in the bone, in the skin. So the body’s trying to keep the deuterium out of the cell, and within the cell, it’s trying to keep it out of the mitochondria, and actually out of all the organelles, not just the mitochondria. So it’s… there’s a whole… Metabolism cannot be explained without looking at deuterium. Dr. Deb Muth 29:07Yeah, so if deuterium’s getting trapped in the bone, much like lead does, does it take up space where we can’t have calcium, and then it leads to more osteoporosis as well? Seneff 29:16I don’t think so. I think deuterium is actually healthy in the bones. Dr. Deb Muth 29:19Interesting. It actually makes the bone stronger, and in fact, there was a really beautiful article on seals. Seneff 29:24You know, SEALs, they do the deep dives, they get into this really, high-pressure zone. Dr. Deb Muth 29:28with… Seneff 29:29in deep water. So they have to be really strong, and the seals actually dope up their bones with twice as much deuterium as what is normal. So they concentrate deuterium. They showed it with the seals, they concentrate deuterium in their bones, and the deuterium makes the bones stronger, so they can sustain the high pressure of the dot. Do you hear the thunder? We’ve got a big thunderstorm. Dr. Deb Muth 29:52So, when you’re testing for deuterium in saliva, are you testing the excess, then? Like, what the body doesn’t. Seneff 30:00Well, there’s the. Dr. Deb Muth 30:00The waste of it? Seneff 30:01It’s really complicated, because I think it’s hard to know how to interpret it. It’s just like when you test for, like, you know, toxic metals, like mercury, like in the hair, you can do a. Dr. Deb Muth 30:13It’s in the hair. Seneff 30:14And sometimes you can find someone who actually has a problem with that metal, but the hair doesn’t show it. Dr. Deb Muth 30:20Bismar. Seneff 30:21doesn’t actually excrete it in the hair, so you have to think about Can the body get rid of it that way? And actually, in the saliva, I believe the saliva the body concentrates deuterium in the saliva, because it’s trying to get rid of deuterium. So a way to… you have the salivary glands, and they can actually excrete, preferentially excrete deuterium. Into the saliva. to concentrate it there in order to keep it out of the body. But those enzymes that do that might be compromised, in which case you have less deuterium in your mouth, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that’s good. You see what I mean? So when you see whatever the level is, it’s hard to interpret it, I believe. Dr. Deb Muth 30:58Yeah, it’s hard to tell what to do with it, then. Seneff 31:01Yeah, whether it’s low because your salivary glands aren’t working well, or whether it’s low because your whole body’s low, you know? And you can’t really know which way that goes, necessarily. So that makes it hard to interpret, I think. Dr. Deb Muth 31:13It sure does. Seneff 31:15I’m interested, for example, breast milk has low deuterium. Saliva has high deuterium. And you’re… I haven’t been able to find… there’s very few measurements, so I’d like to see a lot more measurements on the… just what’s typical, you know? Right. Dr. Deb Muth 31:31expect the urine to have hydrocherium, so anything that you’re excreting, I would expect it to have hydrocherium. So, knowing this information that we have, how does one fix these metabolic issues that we’ve kind of created in our own environment, for lack of a better term, because of our own… our own misgivings of what we’ve done in the world. How do we protect our brain and repair that metabolic issue in the mitochondria these days, then? Seneff 31:58I would say the most essential thing is to eat certified organic food. Dr. Deb Muth 32:02Always buy certified organic. It doesn’t guarantee that it’s free from chemicals, but it’s generally better. Seneff 32:07So that’s… we’ve been practicing that ever since 2012, when I figured out that glyphosate is causing a mess. So we went organic, and we’ve been like that ever since. We did a purge, we threw away everything, even the spices, started over in our kitchen. Yeah. In 2012, and then we’ve just been consistently buying certified organic ever since then. Dr. Deb Muth 32:27at least lowers the load, right? I mean… Seneff 32:29Yeah, it’s. Dr. Deb Muth 32:30There could be… Seneff 32:30some contamination. Dr. Deb Muth 32:31there, but… Seneff 32:32It’s a lot less, generally, but not zero, not necessarily zero. Dr. Deb Muth 32:35Right. Seneff 32:36undetectable. But that’s a really important thing. Another thing is to eat… I think eating fiber can help the microbes to produce those low-deuterium nutrients. The microbesWe can’t digest… our cells don’t know what to do with fiber, but the microbes can digest the fiber, turn it into hydrogen gas, turn it back into nutrients, like short-chain fatty acids, you know, butyrate. So, by eating foods that contain fiber, you’re helping the microbes to produce butyrate, and butyrate is really, really important for the health of the colon, you know? Dr. Deb Muth 33:07Yeah, and we’re talking about eating whole food organic, not organic Doritos and Cheetos. Seneff 33:13Right, right. Dr. Deb Muth 33:14kinds of things, right? Seneff 33:15Whole foods is really important. I always say whole foods and organic foods, those are the two really important things. And then I don’t really, you know, there’s all these different fad diets with respect to, a loss of fat, or no fat, and all that kind of thing. I don’t buy into any of those. I think you just want to have a balanced diet.Carbs are okay, you know, fats are really healthy, and especially animal-based fats are healthy. I don’t like a vegan diet, because I think animal-based foods provide certain nutrients that are really hard to get otherwise. And like I say, you can’t take choline by tartrate to replace the choline that’s in the animal-based foods. Dr. Deb Muth 33:48Right. Yeah, I’ve worked a lot, and I’ve never seen a healthy vegan. I mean, we can say we’re vegan.But those people are eating a lot of junk food, typically. They’re not true vegans, where they’re just eating whole food and getting all their nutrients from good quality foods. Most of the people that I’ve worked with over the years that have been vegan eat a lot of processed foods, a lot of junk foods. It just doesn’t include the animal fats, and then that makes them unhealthy, and we see a lot of nutrient deficiencies and a lot of pain and energy issues. It’s very hard to be a healthy vegan. In my opinion, as well. Seneff 34:20I agree, I agree, yeah. Dr. Deb Muth 34:23So I like to ask this question of all of my guests, and if you were designing a public health policy tomorrow, what would your first change be? Seneff 34:32To switch the farming system to be small farms that are regenerative, not just organic, organic regenerative small farms, with no use of chemicals. Dr. Deb Muth 34:42Yeah. Seneff 34:43No insecticides, no fungicides, no herbicides, nothing, you know? And even natural fertilizer, of course, as well. Of course, right now, you know, the organic farms rely on the chickens to get. Dr. Deb Muth 34:57the. Seneff 34:58Manure, which has glyphosate in it, so they… they get their glyphosate from the manure. Dr. Deb Muth 35:04Yeah, because a lot of that chicken feed has glyphosate in it, and then they’re passing that through, and we think that it doesn’t pass through, but it does pass through, and… Yeah, I would agree with you. I think when we went to these big industrial farming practices, we did not do ourselves any favor. And shipping food across the country to be slaughtered, only to ship it back here. Seneff 35:29It doesn’t make any sense, and… Dr. Deb Muth 35:32Growing things in environments where people live that isn’t natural to them, that doesn’t make sense to me either, in a lot of ways. Seneff 35:41Yeah, it’s very frustrating, because I think we really… it’s too bad that we lost all those small family farms, because we need them back. We really need them back, and I think that’s really the… and you want to have a variety of different crops, you know, we have all these massive cornfields, that’s just wrong. Dr. Deb Muth 35:55Yeah. Yeah, and they do nothing but corn until…Until your county says you have to do something different now, because you’ve depleted the soil too much, and they don’t want to put any soil preservation back in, and put any nutrients back in, because that’s expensive. Seneff 36:12Exactly. Dr. Deb Muth 36:13And then they’ll rotate the crop maybe once a year, and then they’re back to growing corn again, because that’s the largest revenue producer for them at the time, and it really is a challenge for us. Really a challenge. Seneff 36:26Yeah, it’s going to be very difficult to pivot to the kind of agriculture we need, and if we don’t do it, we’re just going to get sicker and sicker. Dr. Deb Muth 36:33Like, my friend. Seneff 36:34frightening. Dr. Deb Muth 36:35Yeah. Seneff 36:35How sick we are. Dr. Deb Muth 36:37Yeah, and I think people trying to grow their own food, at least some of it, can be really helpful and beneficial, too. We need to go back to that practice. Seneff 36:44I know, yes, rooftop farms, right? Dr. Deb Muth 36:47Back in the city. Seneff 36:48That’s really quite cool. I’ve heard some lectures on that. Dr. Deb Muth 36:51Yeah. Yeah, even some of the hydroponic growing that you can do in your apartment and get some lettuce and some herbs and things like that. I mean, anything that you can grow yourself, I think, is a big benefit. A, you don’t. Seneff 37:03I think it’s. Dr. Deb Muth 37:04B, you know how it’s been grown. C, it’s just healthier for you, and it’s less that you’re gonna have to buy that you don’t know that, what’s been growing in it, so… Seneff 37:13And it’s also kind of fun, right? You feel good that you’ve produced your own food. I think it’s really quite neat. Dr. Deb Muth 37:18Yeah, and there’s something, therapeutic about digging in the dirt a little bit, and getting your hands dirty. Seneff 37:24It’s really good to be outdoors and getting exercise. I mean, really, the work that’s involved with growing food is quite healthy work, really. Dr. Deb Muth 37:31Yeah, it’s a lot of work, for sure. That it is. So, for listeners that might be feeling a little overwhelmed about what we’re talking about, and thinking about, how do I detox or nutrition, where do I get some of this education, what kind of resources would you recommend for them? Seneff 37:47That’s a tough one. There’s not much known about deuterium, so it’s really quite difficult to… you can search deuterium, and there are some… a couple of good resources, which I can’t name, I could probably send you a link, describing deuterium. I know there’s a woman who’s written some nice material. on deuterium, just to get a sense of… more… a better sense of what it is, and why it’s a problem. But there’s not much. I mean, we need to have a lot more. I really want to get the research community aware that. Dr. Deb Muth 38:17They need to be. Seneff 38:17researching deuterium and its role in the body, because I think it’s absolutely essential. We’ll never understand disease if we don’t look at deuterium. Dr. Deb Muth 38:24Yeah, I think so, too. I think… I think the… there’s a lot of amazing discoveries that are being found. That could open the doors and give us answers to reversing a lot of disease, if there was funding behind it, if there were people like you that were interested in it, to really dig down from a functional medicine standpoint and try to figure it out instead of looking at it from a big pharma aspect, where we just need to find a pill that’ll fix it. Seneff 38:50I know. Dr. Deb Muth 38:51There are not pills that are going to fix these kinds of things. Seneff 38:54Right, yes, pharma’s way off base, I think. They’re really going after the completely wrong approach to health. Dr. Deb Muth 39:01I agree. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. It’s been a pleasure. Is there any last words that you want to leave with our listeners? Seneff 39:09I don’t know, I just, you know, healthy living is basically just eating whole foods, eating organic foods, getting plenty of fiber and fermented foods.And healthy fats, you know, sort of a variety of diet, a really mixed diet. Lots of fresh vegetables. I mean, there’s all these different great things to eat. Just stay away from the soy protein bars, you know, and the candy bars, and that sort of thing. And the cookies, I mean, just, you know. And then, of course, getting outside in the sunlight is something I always have to say. I love the sun. I think it’s very therapeutic, and we don’t get enough sunlight. We’re just. Dr. Deb Muth 39:43We don’t. And if we do, then we’re lathering on all of our sunscreen so that we don’t get the sun, and that’s creating its own issues, right? Seneff 39:51That’s right. Dr. Deb Muth 39:54Well, thank you so much for being with me today. Seneff 39:56Thank you. My pleasure. Dr. Deb Muth 40:03Thank you for joining me today on Let’s Talk Wellness Now. If this episode has resonated with you, share it with another woman ready to reclaim their health and their vitality. And remember, wellness isn’t just about feeling good, it’s about thriving in every area of your life. If you’re ready to explore personalized regenerative medicine. Please visit serenityhealthcarecenter.com. You can also follow me on social media, and join our free programSeen at Last community on Facebook. Until next time, I’m Dr. Deb, reminding you to care for your body, mind, and spirit. Be well, and I’ll see you on the next episode. Meta Boxes Use up and down arrow keys to resize the meta box pane.Toggle panel: AIOSEO Settings SERP Preview Let’s Talk Wellness Now https://letstalkwellnessnow.com › 2026 › 06 › 05 › episode-267-env…The post Episode 267 – Environmental Toxins, Nutrition, and Their Role in Chronic Disease Development first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

5-17-26 AM "The Growth of the Church"Scripture Reading: Daniel 2:1-45,Sermon Text: Mark 4:30-32I. The Humble Beginning of the Church A. The Biblical Evidence of the Humble Beginning B. The Historical Evidence of the Humble BeginningII. The Amazing Increase of the Church A. The Biblical Evidence of the Amazing Increase B. The Biblical Prophecy of the Amazing IncreaseIII. The Great Encouragement for the Church A. The Need for the Encouragement B. The Point of the EncouragementRev. Greg Lubbers

Dr. Deb Muth 00:03Welcome to Let’s Talk Wellness Now. I am your host, Dr. Deb.And today, I have the pleasure of meeting with Dr. James Greenblatt. I’ve known Dr. Greenblatt for a very long time. We, started lecturing together, gosh, over 15 years ago.And he is an amazing practitioner. Dr. Greenblatt is dual board certified in psychiatry and internationally recognized.as a pioneer in functional and integrative psychiatry. He’s widely regarded as the leading expert on the clinical application of low-dose lithium for mental health.Dr. Greenblatt has spent more than 30 years advancing precision medicine-based approaches that move beyond symptom management to address the root causes of mental illness.And after earning his medical degree at George Washington University.Dr. Greenblatt completed his psychiatry and residency there as a fellow in child and adolescent psychiatry.Joined John Hopkins Medical School, and he currently serves as an assistant clinical professor of Psychiatry at Tufts University. He is a prolific author. Dr. Greenblatt has written 9 books, including his newest book, Finally Hopeful. in… available in January of 2026. We can ask him about this today.And his bestsellers finally focused the breathwork, natural treatment plan for ADHD,Answers to anorexia, Functional and Integrative Medicine for Antidepressant withdrawal, and nutritional lithium, and Untold tale of Mineral and Transforms Lives, that heals the brain.He has founded, in 2019, the Psychiatry Redefined, a leading educational platform training clinicians worldwide in functional and integrative psychiatry. He is a sought-after international speaker. Dr. Greenblatt regularly lecturesOn nutritional psychiatry and the transformative role of functional medicine.I am super excited to have him here with us today. This is going to be a pleasure. You guys are going to love this conversation that we are going to have. And I am going to pick his brain today on functional and integrative psychology and psychiatry, and combining nutrition, biochemistry, and lifestyle with mental health care.I’m really, really happy to have Dr. Greenblatt with us, so I am going to bring him on, and we are going to have this amazing conversation with my friend.Welcome back to Let’s Talk Wellness Now. I’m your host, Dr. Deb, and I have with me Dr. James Greenblatt, who I have followed for… we were just chatting about this for over 20 years.He is amazing in what he is doing, and we are going to have this conversation today about integrative psychiatry and the future of mental health. So, welcome to the show, Dr. Greenblatt. James greenblatt md 03:20Thank you, Dips, good to be with you. Dr. Deb Muth 03:22Now, you’ve been pioneering this integrative psychiatry for decades. What really inspired you to bridge nutrition and psychiatry long before it’s become mainstream? James greenblatt md 03:35You know, I developed an interest in college, you know, studying nutrition, and then I remember writing papers on orthomolecular psychiatry, high dose, vitamin B3 for schizophrenia.So, I really did not think I’d be a psychiatrist. I wanted to be a pediatrician when I went to medical school, but, just early interest in nutrition and brain function.And it’s been my career now for 30-plus years. Dr. Deb Muth 04:05Wow. Can you define what integrative psychiatry actually means, and how it’s different from traditional psychiatry for most people who wouldn’t be familiar with that term? James greenblatt md 04:17Sure, I mean, I have to add the word functional as well. I mean, I think, you know, I call myself a functional psychiatrist, but for most of my career, and every book, and everything I did, I would have to use words like functional and integrative.Medicine for mental illness. And, you know, I define integrative medicine as the… Adjunctive lifestyle, mindfulness. And diet, sleep, and exercise. Dr. Deb Muth 04:46Mmm. James greenblatt md 04:46And I kind of use the term functional for kind of a deeper root cause dive, looking at nutritional deficiencies, looking at hormones, looking at genetics. And, you know, to treat patients with mental health challenges, we need both integrative and functional medicine. Dr. Deb Muth 05:05That’s awesome. You know, in our integrative space, we often kind of joke that there’s no such thing as a Prozac deficiency, right? Can you explain to our listeners how nutrient deficiencies, gut health, or inflammation can play a role in mental illness? James greenblatt md 05:23Sure, I mean, I think the most importantBeginning of this conversation would be that, you know, 10 people with depression, there might be 10 different underlying factors. Dr. Deb Muth 05:35Yeah. James greenblatt md 05:35And we do know that there’s not an antidepressant deficiency, so we have to look deeper. And… and that’s,just different than our current psychiatry model, where it’s just symptomatic-based medicine. Everyone who’s depressed. It’s an antidepressant.And by looking at functional integrative medicine, we’re looking at B12 and vitamin D and zinc and magnesium. We’re looking at hormones, we’re looking at the gut, and we’re trying to determine what might be either causing or contributing to that person’s depression. Dr. Deb Muth 06:10Is there a particular, flavor that you see more commonly with others, like depression versus anxiety versus bipolar. Is there a particular underlying factor that you see more commonly than others? James greenblatt md 06:27Well, the short answer is no, and that’s why this work takes time, because you have to think.You know, every patient that walks in the office is different. I mean, I think the overarching umbrella is nutritional deficiencies, you know, whether… regardless of weight, regardless of diet. I mean, I have people coming in who’ve been eating…You know, these ketogenic or paleo diets, you know, perfect organic foods, and are profoundly nutritionally deficient.So I think nutritional deficiencies would be number one, and then, you know, the whole host of, you know, infections and hormone problems and inflammatory issues related to celiac disease is really common in the mental health space that’s ignored. Dr. Deb Muth 07:14Yeah. Celiac disease is really not paid attention too much, other than thinking that it’s damaging the gut. They don’t really think about all the other aspects of the body that are being affected by the gut not being able to absorb the nutrients properly and then utilize them properly. It’s really sad. James greenblatt md 07:34we find out… and there’s research to support it. That’s the tragedy. This is not something, as clinicians, that we found. We have many, many years of research showing high rates of anxiety and depression, you know, amongst those with, celiac disorder because of this chronic malnutrition, and many patients present without any GI symptoms, just mental health complaints, but nobody’s looking at celiac. Dr. Deb Muth 08:02Yeah. You know, I’m sure there’s people that are listening to us thinking, there’s no way thatEverybody who’s depressed or anxious has a nutritional deficiency. When we’re… live in a country where there’s so much abundance of food, and the obesity rates are high, and most people are very plump, how could those people be deficient in nutrients? What do you say to people who think like that? James greenblatt md 08:28Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, we have, what’s called high caloric malnutrition, so regardless of weight, I would say the vast majority of patients with a mental health issue I would say my best guess would be 90-plus percent. Dr. Deb Muth 08:47Wow. James greenblatt md 08:47We would find nutritional deficiencies. Dr. Deb Muth 08:51And part of this, we’ve discovered, is genetics. James greenblatt md 08:56People having, kind of, genetic needs for Higher amounts of certain micronutrients. Some of it is just the kinds of foods people are eating. The kind of ultra-processed food actually strips the body of micronutrients. So, it is just so common, and many of these tests are pretty simple that your primary care doctor could do in the office. Dr. Deb Muth 09:22So, traditional labs can identify some of these nutritional deficiencies. They don’t necessarily have to invest thousands of dollars in advanced nutrient testing to find these things out. James greenblatt md 09:35Absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, oftentimes when we’re working with a patient who has failed traditional psychiatric treatment, we do need some functional, testing, but I’m quite convinced we could change the trajectory of our mental health epidemic in this country by some labs that are covered by every insurance company on the planet. Like, people think of vitamin D as, you know, building bones or immune function.It has dramatic relationships to mental health problems, demonstrated over 30 years of research. So vitamin D and B12 and folate, all simple blood tests that are covered by all health insurances. Dr. Deb Muth 10:18You know, with the change of genetics, MTHFR is so popularly known these days. It’s probably the most popular genetic mutation that people know of.And in the mental health space, it plays a significant role as well in that absorption of B12 and folate. How do you look at MTHFR mutation with inside the mental health world? James greenblatt md 10:43Well, I think it’s, It’s critical, it’s required on every patient that I see, and I’ve been, known to say it would be considered malpractice for psychiatrists not to test for the MTHFR gene. Because most of my career, I’ve spent working in inpatient psychiatric hospitals and residential. So seeing those individuals that have failed outpatient treatment, so really struggling.And one of the most common things I’ve been seeing for 30 years are those psychiatric patients not responsive to traditional treatment. oftentimes have one of the more significant MTHFR variants. And so we started doing the testing in the hospital, and they came back with these you know, variants and treated with folate, the medicines worked better, and their depression got better. It is simple. And essential. So, the integrative community, our community is aware of it, but our conventional psychiatrists are not testing for MTHFR. Dr. Deb Muth 11:50Yeah, it’s so sad, isn’t it? Because it’s such a simple test, and can make such a big difference in people’s lives. I know even in the OBGYN community, we’re not looking at MTHFR, and yet we’re giving women all this folic acid that many of them might not be able to actually utilize.And we’re… in my opinion, we’re doing a disservice to those women and the children that are being born to them for that. James greenblatt md 12:15Yeah, no, it’s frustrating, when there are clear, simple, treatment interventions that could make major difference in people’s lives that are just not incorporated into, kind of, routine treatment models. Dr. Deb Muth 12:31How come we see some people with MTHFR mutations, or gene mutations, have depression and anxiety that is so severe, and then other people seem to have absolutely no problems with mental health at all, and they have a similar profile? James greenblatt md 12:47Yeah, I mean, that’s just a great example, as, you know, genes aren’t our destiny, it’s just kind of a vulnerability.And, you know, we actually, when we were in the hospital, we tested, you know. hundreds of people and staff as well. And, you know, people are going to be lived to 100 and have these very vulnerable MTHFR genes. So it’s not the genes, it’s… I call it that genetic-environmental dance. So if we add… that genetic vulnerability, and maybe we add a, you know, a Lyme infection, or a chronic stress, or a B12 deficiency, or celiac, or we could list a hundred things, stress and inflammation probably being the most significant. With that genetic vulnerability, that’s where, you know, the implications of treatment come more defined. Dr. Deb Muth 13:45Yeah. What do you think the role of trauma plays in all of this, too, with the genetics? Do you think that trauma that people are living with today makes a big impact on their genes and how their genes are being turned on or off? James greenblatt md 14:01Yeah, I mean, we know trauma is kind of, you know, sets the stage for so much psychiatric illness. I think in my… Community of mental health professionals. we kind of use the trauma as an excuse to not think of the biology. And trauma… Affects the biology. Dr. Deb Muth 14:21So… James greenblatt md 14:22without negating the past trauma or current trauma, we still need to dig deep into the B12 and MTHFR and vitamin D. But… the trauma does affect the expression of certain genes. It also ex… we see a lot of, nutritional deficiencies after trauma due to poor digestion, because the Digestive enzymes and the hydrochloric acid kind of just shut down. And so, again, eating great food, but not absorbing these micronutrients. So I’ve seen that years after trauma. Dr. Deb Muth 14:5Yeah, it’s really hard. I’ve worked with Dr. Mark Gordon, and he does a lot of trauma work for veterans, and he focuses a lot on the hormones that get affected because of the brain trauma and the head trauma that people experience in combat. Or the repetitive shot firings and things like that, and how it correlates to anxiety. And then just balancing out some of those hormones can make a significant difference for them, and he’s actually been tracking the reduction of some of the hormones as a result of those traumas. Have you seen similar things like that with mental health and hormones? James greenblatt md 15:36Not… I haven’t made that direct correlation, but what we see when we evaluate somebody with trauma is just, you know, a kind of very wide range of metabolic abnormalities from Hormonal, to insulin resistance, to nutrient deficiencies, again, that aren’t dietary related. Dr. Deb Muth 15:57So… James greenblatt md 15:58Definitely, somehow, some path from the trauma. Dr. Deb Muth 16:03Yeah. If you had to choose your most favorite cutting-edge research or biomarker that you’re most excited about right now in the world of nutritional psychology or psychiatry, what would that be? James greenblatt md 16:19Well, you know, I counted as 250 that we look at when I evaluate a site patient, but there’s one… That is so simple, and has such profound implications, and that’s looking at levels of cryptopyrrol in the urine. Dr. Deb Muth 16:36Oh, yeah. James greenblatt md 16:37urine test. It measures this, molecule, a pyrole derivative, and Most of us would have normal levels. And if it’s elevated, It is, it’s likely a genetic vulnerability, but this, cryptopyrrol just binds B6 and zinc. So you have this tremendous deficiency of B6 and zinc. And elevated cryptopyril is always associated with psychiatric symptoms, usually anxiety, but we’ve seen depression and panic and even paranoia. And it’s simple to treat. We’re talking about, you know, pennies a day, B6 and zinc. Dr. Deb Muth 17:20The marker comes down. James greenblatt md 17:23And symptoms improve. I mean, it is really stunning and dramatic. Dr. Deb Muth 17:28That is amazing, because you’re right, I mean, in something that seems so simple and so inexpensive oftentimes gets dismissed, because we think that it’s not going to do enough, but some of these things that biochemically are happening to people Really need to start being addressed, because the side effects that they’re having with multiple layers of medications is not good for them either. James greenblatt md 17:52Yeah, the amount of medications now, because of our kind of ineffective model, is just exploding, so people are taking 3, 4, 5 psychiatric medications to treat a problem that sometimes there might be a simpler solution. Dr. Deb Muth 18:11Yeah. Can you share a case example of where an integrative approach really transforms someone’s mental health when medication alone wasn’t working? James greenblatt md 18:22Sure, you know, many, but there’s one that I just talked about, A couple nights ago about a gentleman who, you know, traveled around the country seeing integrative doctors, as well as traditional doctors, had a bag full of supplements, because every Doctor put them on a different regimen. And, strong family history of depression and addiction. He struggled with depression and addiction. And, you know, could not get off antidepressants. So, he had a lot of blood work, everything was normal, and the one test that we found in our battery was low levels of essential amino acids. Dr. Deb Muth 19:08Wow. James greenblatt md 19:09So this was, someone who was eating, you know, organic foods and grass-fed protein, so he was eating the perfect diet.But he was completely deficient in amino acids. So, again, that inability to digest and absorb, so just by giving this individual hydrochloric acid. Free-form amino acids. He was able to begin to feel better, and eventually we were able to taper him off these medications. So it was just, it wasn’t dietary intake, it was a problem of digestion and absorption. Dr. Deb Muth 19:50That is incredible, because I don’t think, even in the functional medicine world, where we’re focused so heavily on gut health, we are not making that correlation that people are not digesting their proteins to make amino acids, to make neurotransmitters. That… that thought process isn’t happening with a lot of functional medicine practitioners either. James greenblatt md 20:11No, it hasn’t, and maybe because it’s too simple, you know? It’s not trying to look at 75 markers on organic acid, it’s just… Dr. Deb Muth 20:21Yeah. James greenblatt md 20:21Looking at, you know, 9 essential amino acids. And usually there’s a pattern. They’re either all low, you know, or normal, or high, and that means something. So, I remember when I first did amino acid testing, it was by mistake. I remember in the 90s, I checked the wrong box in a lab company. And it didn’t make sense to me when I first started doing it, but now it is one of the most important tests that I do for adult depression. Dr. Deb Muth 20:49Yeah. How do those amino acids, work with, like, that resistant depression, anxiety. What do they actually do that makes the anxiety and the depression worse? James greenblatt md 21:02Well, the essential amino acids, essential meaning our body needs to get them from our diet, are the precursors to every protein in the body, but in psychiatry, they’re the precursors to the neurotransmitters.So, tryptophan, precursor to serotonin, phenylalanine, the precursor to dopamine and norepinephrine. So if those are deficient.And we have studies in humans and animals, going back, I think, to the 70s, that we can affect the levels of neurotransmitters in the brain. So low levels of these amino acids affect neurotransmitters. It’s actually a research protocol called tryptophan depletion studies. Where we give people in the lab low levels of tryptophan, and we watch them get irritable, depressed, and angry. Dr. Deb Muth 21:51It’s interesting that we’re willing to do that to people, right? But you’ve got to figure it out sometimes. You have to know that what you think is actually working. James greenblatt md 21:58Absolutely. Dr. Deb Muth 22:00Yeah. How do you guide patients to safely combine their natural approaches with their psychiatric medications? James greenblatt md 22:09I think the vast majority of the, the work that we’ve been doing, is all nutritional supplements or interventions that can be done with medications. So it’s not an either-or model when we think of functional psychiatry. It’s just kind of adding tools you know, to the toolbox. There are very few interactions with medications. Sometimes high-dose amino acids we won’t use with certain medications, but all the Vitamins and minerals and gut support that we’re recommending can be utilized with medications. Dr. Deb Muth 22:49That’s awesome, because I think there’s a lot of fear around that, right? Like, if I take this, it’ll interfere with that. And some things, yes, they do interfere, but it’s good for people to understand that they can do these things safely, but they need to work with somebody knowledgeable, like yourself, or somebody that has come from one of your training programs that really, truly understands this. James greenblatt md 23:10Yeah, absolutely. It’s, it’s an integrative model where individuals can Sometimes it’s just the medications work better. Other times, it’s a path to tapering someone off the medications. Dr. Deb Muth 23:24Yeah. For patients or families that are listening, and they’re really feeling frustrated by medication-only solutions, where do you recommend that they start? James greenblatt md 23:36Well, I have to say my book. So, you know, the book I just wrote, Finally, Hopeful, is written for patients, and I think the title is the best part of it, you know, Hope. I think as you begin to appreciate the role of nutrition and depression. So, there are some, some good books out there, that, on my website, psychiatryRedefine.org, there’s a list of clinicians, and, in the next month, I’ll be setting up a network of functional psychiatry clinicians, So, around the country that have been trained, so that program is called Finally Living Now, I think, Finally Living Now, so…People, want the information. Too many of our traditional docs just don’t have the training, so we’ll hopefully be able to provide a network of clinicians who can help. Dr. Deb Muth 24:30That’s fantastic, and for those of you who are driving or didn’t catch those links, don’t worry about it. We will have them in the show notes for you, so you can find these people that have been trained and understand what to do to help you. What gives you optimism about the future of psychiatric and mental health care? James greenblatt md 24:51Well, the explosion of research is really, have given me some renewed energy at this point in my career, because in the last 5 years. There are just hundreds of incredibly well-written academic articles, references that our traditional researchers have kind of just validated everything that we’ve been saying for 30 years. So we have studies on vitamin D deficiency, and suicide, and zinc deficiency, and suicide, and folate, and the gut. And the most significant for me is, I’ve been talking about lithium orotate. Dr. Deb Muth 25:34Print this. James greenblatt md 25:34years as a nutritional intervention, probably the most important in my practice, and a study came out of Harvard. This year, Describing lithium orotate, the only lithium preparation that was able to reverse Alzheimer’s pathology in mice models. and prevent it in these models. It was a pretty dramatic study. Dr. Deb Muth 25:57Oh. James greenblatt md 25:58So… Long-inded answer, but it’s the research now that is just supporting everything we’ve been yelling about for 30 years that just is going to make it much easier to train doctors and nurse practitioners so we can help more patients. Dr. Deb Muth 26:15Oh, that’s fantastic. That’s an… I’m going to look up that study, that’s amazing. So, one last question for you is, if someone was listening today, and they’re really struggling with anxiety and depression, and they’re out of answers, what would you tell them to give them hope? James greenblatt md 26:32I think that, you know, I’ve been doing this 30 years, and I have colleagues around the globe, and Everyone would kind of just echo that there are some simple interventions, and to try to find either your primary care doctor, or a mental health professional, or a naturopath who will dig deeper and look at some objective tests, and I’m positive that if you’re struggling with depression, that they’ll find something to help you. Dr. Deb Muth 27:06That’s awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today. Are there any last thoughts that you want to leave with our listeners? James greenblatt md 27:13Well, just to repeat two things I’ve said a couple times is, hope, you know, finally hopeful is the book, and then everyone’s different. And your neighbor might be taking, you know, found out that they had a vitamin B12 deficiency, and that cured their depression. it doesn’t mean you have a B12 deficiency, but there are many. a path towards looking deeper. Everyone’s different, but there is hope. Dr. Deb Muth 27:44Thank you so much for joining me today. James greenblatt md 27:46Thanks for having me, nice talking with you. Dr. Deb Muth 27:52Thank you for joining me today on Let’s Talk Wellness Now and Dr. James Greenblatt for the insightful conversation on integrative psychiatry and the future of mental health.If you’ve ever felt dismissed, over-medicated, or frustrated by cookie-cutter approaches to mental health, remember, there is always hope. Healing begins when we look deeper at nutrition, environment, biochemistry, and the unique story within every patient. That’s the art and the science Dr. Greenblatt calls us back to. If today’s episode resonated with you.Share it with someone who needs to hear that mental health illness is not a life sentence. It’s a message from the body, asking to be completely understood. Remember, wellness isn’t just about feeling good, it’s about thriving in every area of your life. If you’re ready to explore how root cause psychiatry or functional medicine can help you or a loved one find hope again, visit DrGreenblatt.com and check out his new book that is just out. Until next time, I’m Dr. Deb, reminding you to take care of your body, mind, and spirit. Be well, and I will see you in our next episode.The post Episode 263 – Functional and integrative psychiatry: combining nutrition, biochemistry, and lifestyle with mental health care first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

Introduction: Matthew 6:24 – No one can serve two masters... You cannot serve God and money. Ephesians 5:5 - For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Philippians 3:19 – their god is their belly... 1 Samuel 15:23 - For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry. 3 Reasons to Run from Idolatry: (1 Corinthians 10:14-22) Because of WHO YOU ARE. (1 Cor 10:16-18) Because It's DEMONIC. (1 Cor 10:19-21) Deuteronomy 32:17 – They sacrificed to demons that were not God... Psalm 106:37 – They served their idols, which became a snare to them. They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons... Ephesians 6:12 - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Because God is JEALOUS For You. (1 Cor 10:22) Exodus 34:14 – for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God… Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANKHint: Highlight blanks above for answers! Audio Transcript 00:36Open up those Bibles to 1 Corinthians 10 and take a moment to please just pray for me to communicate God's Word clearly as I should, and I will pray for you to have a heart open to receive what it is the Lord wants to teach us today. All right? So let's just take a moment and pray. Father, we trust Your Word and Your Spirit to do a work in our hearts.01:08As only you can, Father. That's why we're here. Father, open our hearts and minds up to receive what it is that you've told us in your word. We sing, I exalt thee, but Father, I pray that we would live that, a lifestyle that exalts you. We pray in Jesus' name.01:37Amen. 1 Corinthians 10.01:42Many years ago at a church picnic, we did the pie the pastor thing.01:48Now I know we've done it more recently. We did it like with VBS.01:51This is years ago when we had a lot less kids.01:54And I couldn't remember what it was, but Mandy Maul was our children's director at the time.01:58And she reminded me, it was like those big five-gallon jugs.02:04was if the kids could fill it with change, they went to some mission or ministry, but if the kids could fill it with change, some of the kids would be able to pie me at the church picnic.02:18So when I say pie, not like an apple pie, you know, the old whipped cream, the whipped cream pies, right?02:26So it started with, can some of the kids pie you at the picnic?02:32I was like, okay.02:34Well, that turned into, can all the kids pie you? And I said, multiple times, each as hard as they can. You would be surprised how hard some of these little guys can hit you in the nose with a whipped cream pie. I had to go into like concussion protocol. So they're like, can all the kids hit you in the pie, hit you in the face with a pie as hard as they can? I was like, okay. Then somebody, not one of the kids, somebody had this brilliant idea.03:32How about we pie Pastor Jeff, but instead of whipped cream, they brought a squeeze bottle of mayonnaise. A squeeze bottle of mayonnaise. And they're like, let's pie him with a mayonnaise pie. Mayonnaise pie, excuse me. And I said, too far. That was too far. Absolutely under no circumstances.04:02But you see, they just took it too far. They just took it too far. It was all fun and games until they brought out the Hellmanns. Too far. You went too far. And it's that idea of going too far that takes us to this next section. Because you see, the Corinthians that Paul was writing to lived in a pagan culture.04:32Right? Paganism was everywhere. And some of the people in the church obviously came to Christ out of the pagan culture, and they realized, hey, I am free in Christ. And an idol? An idol is nothing. And Paul's like, you're right, an idol is nothing. Well, meat that was sacrificed to idols? I can eat that. I'm free to eat that. And Paul's like, yes, you are free to Eat that meat. Yes. But not if it offends a weaker Christian. Then you lay down your freedom. Say like, well, I'm free also to go to the pagan festivals. Go to these pagan parties. I'm free to do that. And Paul said, too far. You've taken it too far. Yes, we are free in Christ, but going to the pagan festivals, That's too far. Look at verse 14. He says, Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.05:43That word beloved, that is such a term of just deep affection.05:50Paul's like, look, I love you, church. I love you.05:56And it's because I love you, church, that I have to tell you something that's really important.06:02A lot of you are still getting involved in the paganism around you. You've got to run from that. You've got to flee. Get away from that whole scene. Idolatry. So let me ask you, are you in danger of idolatry? You. Are you in danger of idolatry?06:38We would agree that idolatry is an issue for a lot of people in the world. Right? We would agree with that. As many of you know, we are the stateside support. We have 23 churches in northern Thailand. Mountain, jungle, tribal, places that don't see white people.07:03We support 23 churches, 4 children's homes, a Bible institute. We have a thriving ministry there. And I've been to Thailand several times. And when you go to Thailand and you land in the airport, there is a sign at the airport that says there is a severe penalty.07:32for stealing the head of a Buddha statue. And I thought, well, that's random that you land. It's like, welcome to our country. By the way, we will arrest you if you steal the head of a statue. So I asked our missionary Barnabas, like, what is up with that? What's up with that sign? He said, well, people realize they can't steal the whole statue.08:00So people come and they just try to steal the head. And to them, that is so sacrilegious. That is a horrible thing. And he said they come down hard on people that do that. So we look at that and we're like, yes, idolatry. Or we go up into the mountain jungles of Thailand. When you get away from the city where there's a lot of Buddhism, But when you get to some of these tribal areas, it's not Buddhism as much as it's spiritism and animism. And they have these spirit altars in their homes where they burn things to appease the evil spirits. And when they become Christians, when they receive Christ, one of the first things they do is rip that spirit altar out and take it outside their village and burn it as their way of saying, I am done with this.08:58And we hear those stories and we see the ashes and we say, yeah, they have a problem with idolatry. But we don't think idolatry is an issue for us. But here's the thing, church. We don't have less idols. We have infinitely more.09:30I've never bowed down to a rock. I understand the Bible's definition of idolatry is much greater than just that. For example, the Bible says money can be an idol. Money and stuff. Jesus said, Matthew 6.24, you cannot serve God and money. Money and stuff can be an idol. How about covetousness? The Bible says covetousness is an idol. Ephesians 5.5, it says, that is an idolater has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.10:04Covetousness.10:05That's when instead of being thankful for what God has given to you, you wish that you had what God gave to someone else.10:14That's coveting.10:17And God says when you covet, you're an idolater.10:22The Bible says your belly can be an idol, Philippians 3.19.10:27In that passage, Paul talks about people who are ruled by their appetites. That's what drives them. Whatever they are hungry for, that's their idol. Or how about this one? Rebellion. 1 Samuel 15 talks about that. Rebellion is as the sin of divination and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry.10:56You see, when God tells you to do something, and you're like, I'm not going to do that, and you're rebelling against God, God says, in my mind, that has become an idol to you, your rebellion. Ezekiel 14 talks about taking idols into your heart. You know, I was thinking about that a lot this week. Idols are kind of a funny thing. In that, You realize literally anything, literally anything on this earth can become an idol. Do you ever think about that? Anything. I mean, an object, whether it's a rock or your car or something, an object can become an idol. Another person can become an idol. Your spouse, your kids, your Whatever. Celebrity. A person can become an idol. Some activity. Some hobby. Even a good thing. Consumes you. It becomes the thing that you worship. An activity can become an idol. Or a position. Right? I've got to get this job. I'm not going to be content until I reach this level. And that becomes an idol. You realize an idea can become an idol.12:26An idea can become an idol. Like, I didn't think my life was going to turn out like this. And we sort of have this idea of, this is how I thought my life was going to be at this point. This is how I thought my kids were going to be. I thought I'd be in a much different place at this point in my life. And we sort of have this idealized utopia of how we think our lives should be. And that becomes an idol for us.12:55Literally anything can become an idol. But here's something else that's funny about idolatry. Idolatry is completely individualized. And it's completely subjective. Here's what I mean. Like, when I've been to Thailand, one of the times I went, I said to Barnabas, I said, hey, can I see one of these Buddhist temples? Because there was one right down the street from his house. And I said, would they object to like somebody like me just going in there. He goes, oh no, they're fine with that. He says, you want to see it? I'll show you. He took me down. There was nobody in there. We just walked right in. He goes, oh, they don't care. But I got to tell you, did nothing for me. It was interesting, but it did nothing for me like religiously. But you know, there are a lot of other people that go in there and that is where they worship and that is everything. You see how it's subjective.13:55The same thing means everything to one person but meant nothing to me. Or I could take one of these Thai people here to America and maybe I've turned my kids into an idol and to the Thai person, my kids mean nothing to them. So you see how idolatry is so individualized and it's so specific and subjective to us, to each of us, that there is something in your life that you are tempted to turn into an idol. Unless it has already become an idol. You're like, well, what is it? What is it for me? It's that thing in your life that's more important than Jesus. That's an idol. It's the thing that keeps you from obeying Jesus as you should. That's an idol. If I said to you, what is the thing in your life that you know if this thing wasn't in the way, you would have a closer walk. You would feel like you are nearer to God. What is that thing? That thing would be your idol. The thing that's more important than coming to worship. The thing that's more important than your personal time with the Lord. That's an idol. The thing you devote your time and money and attention over Jesus.15:25That's an idol. So I'll ask you again, are you in danger of idolatry? Because when we consider the biblical definition of idolatry, I think the answer is yes, we all are. Every single one of us are in danger of idolatry. So verse 15, he says, I speak as to sensible people. Judge for yourselves what I say. Do we have any sensible people here this morning? No? This is going to be the longest sermon you've ever heard if you're not sensible. But that's what Paul's saying.16:26in your head, listen to what I'm saying. Listen, this is something you need to think about. Something you really need to stop. And what's he saying? I got to think about that. All right? So here's what Paul's saying in this passage we're going to look at. Paul says, run from idolatry.16:55Okay, why, Paul? Paul says, because of the Lord's Supper. You're like, what? What do you mean? You've got to be sensible, sensible people. Let's talk about the Lord's Supper. Matthew 26, Mark 14, Luke 22. Jesus celebrated the Passover meal with his disciples before Jesus' death. And Jesus, in this celebration, changed the meaning of the Passover meal from remembering the Exodus to remembering Him. It became a regular observance in the church. And here's what Paul's saying in this passage. If you're a believer in Jesus Christ, if you are a sincere, born-again believer in Jesus Christ, if you are someone, who comes and takes the Lord's Supper, then you don't want anything to do with idolatry. So let's explain what he means by that, sensible people. On your outline, three reasons to run from idolatry. Number one, because of who you are. Why should I run from idolatry? Because of who I am. You should run because of who you are.18:27Look at verse 16.18:29Because we've got to talk about this one for a couple of minutes.18:34Paul says, sensible people flee from idolatry. Why, Paul?18:38Look at verse 16. The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ?18:49The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?18:56The cup of blessing. What's the cup of blessing? That's the third cup in the Passover meal. That's probably when Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper. Jesus blessed it. And Paul says, when we get together and take the Lord's Supper, we bless it. What does that mean? It means that we are regarding this as a sacred thing. Right? When we have the Lord's Supper together, it's a sacred thing.19:24And we're not having the Lord's Supper today. In hindsight, we probably should have. We're going to have it in a couple weeks because he talks more about the Lord's Supper. But understand, church, when we take the Lord's Supper together, it is more than just a religious ritual. The cup and the bread are way more than just symbols.19:54What are they? He says it four times in this passage we're looking at today. The word that you've got to understand this to understand his whole point. The word is participation. Participation. He says the cup is participation in the blood of Christ. The bread is participation in the body of Christ. What does that mean?20:24And I really like the analogy, so I'm going to use it. But he compared it to if you've ever had somebody that you love very much who passed away, but you have a photograph of them. When you look at that photograph, that awakens something in you, doesn't it? A photograph isn't just a piece of paper with an image on it to you.20:54that picture of that one who you love who had passed away, when you see that person is sort of actualized in your mind, the person sort of becomes alive in your mind. You know that feeling. You see that old picture and you just feel something in your spirit. You feel your emotions. That something really stirs in you when you look at that picture.21:28The Lord's Supper is sort of like that, but it's more than that. When we take the Lord's Supper, it's not just a reminder. Like, why am I here again? Oh, yeah. Yeah, Jesus. Now, what did he do? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.21:54Yeah, he died. Right, right, right. No, no, no, no. It's much more than that. When we take the Lord's Supper, we are engulfed in who he is and what he has done. This is what Paul's saying here specifically. Sensible people, sensible. Look, you promised me you were sensible. So let's keep going here, all right? The cup is a participation in the blood of Christ.22:24What does that mean? The blood of Christ is not about the red fluid that pumped through his veins. Blood of Christ is a figure of speech regarding his death. Right? So here's the thing. When we take the Lord's Supper, we are participating in Christ's death. When we take that cup, we're identifying ourselves in the benefits of his death.22:54Jesus' death means something. And when I receive the cup, I'm participating in that. That this isn't just about a man who died for me. This is about God in the flesh who bought my salvation with his death. And I'm participating in that. This means something to me right now. That's what happens when we take communion. The bread, that's the body.23:23Paul tells us here, but it's more than just the suffering of Christ. It's that, but it's more than that. It's everything that the incarnation means. See, when we take that bread, we're reminded of the body of Christ. We're reminded the invisible God made himself visible. He became a man. God was here. God was here as Jesus, and he showed me what God is like. And ultimately, yes, He came to die as only a man can die. So when we take that bread, we're participating in Christ's life. We're identifying ourselves with His righteousness, with His example. We're saying, this is the manifestation of God. This is who He is conforming me to be like. That's what we are saying together, church, when we are taking the Lord's Supper. We are participating.24:22So the cup and the bread, they're more than symbols. All that Christ is, all that Christ means is life, his grace, his humility, his love, his death. We are participators in all of that. So the Lord's Supper isn't just about reminding ourselves of an event that happened long ago. But the Lord's Supper is, hey, this is our life right now.24:52Because of what he did, this is who I am today. But it goes deeper than that, believe it or not. Look at verse 17. He says, because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread. You see, in the Lord's Supper, we are joined with Christ and we're joined with each other. See, that bread all came from the same loaf.25:22and we're all eating a piece of bread from the same loaf. We're saying that the Lord's Supper unites us in a profound way. When we take the Lord's Supper, it unites us in a profound way. Look, whatever else we may agree on. Best sports team, favorite brand of ketchup, what political, what side of the political aisle you're on, whatever else, we may disagree on. When we take the Lord's Supper as a church, do you know what we're doing together? We're uniting. We're saying, this. This is our God. This is what unites us. We have been saved through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We all identify this is our God. We are together on this. This is what we share.26:22Look at verse 18. Paul's making the same point. Flashback to Israel. He says, Consider the people of Israel. Are not those who eat the sacrifices? Participants in the altar? Same point. And Israel's worship, when somebody offered a sacrifice, like, well, who got that? Everybody. God, the priest, and the worshiper were all participators in the sacrifice.26:56Isn't that terribly fascinating? You're like, yes, but what's the point? I thought we were talking about idolatry. What is the point of all this? Here's the point. You ready? Sensible people, are you ready? Here's the point. When you are in a religious service, You are participating with what you are worshiping and the other worshipers.27:34So Paul's point here is this.27:36How can you come here and participate with Christ and Christ people and then turn around and go to a different religious service where we are participating with idols and idolaters. When we take the Lord's Supper, we're saying, church, we're saying, this is who I am. I'm in Christ. I identify with these people here who are also taking from this loaf. Now, I can't just turn around after participating here with these people. I can't just turn around and participate with another group entirely.28:19Does that make sense? Because if you're so a little fuzzy on it, think about it this way. It's Stanley Cup playoffs, right? Did you watch that game last night? I did, but I think it was like this the whole time. But just imagine, A person goes down to PPG Paints Arena, Pens versus Flyers. They go down and they're wearing their Sidney Crosby number 87 jersey and they're down there like, Sid! Go Sid! Greatest player in the world! Go Sid! Let's go Pens! Let's go Pens! Let's go Pens! Right? And then that same person goes, hey, when?29:18Like, when's the next game? And they're like, oh, the next game's in Philly. So that person gets in their car and drives to Philadelphia and wears a Flyers jersey. And during the game, Sid, you stink! Sid's the worst! And they're like cheering for the Flyers the whole time. What would you think of someone who did that?29:47you be like how can you thank you Justin like how can you how can you be participating with the penguins and now you're participating with the flyers how can you do that that's Paul's point right here how can you participate with the living God and then participate with an idol because when you go to church When you go to church, it's about participation. Listen, this is why many Christians miss this concept, because you look at church as an event. For some people, that's all church is, it's an event. What's on my calendar this week? Well, I got this appointment of work, I got a Oh yeah, Sunday morning, 11 o'clock, church. Yeah, it's an event on the calendar. Just one more thing on the schedule. You just see church as an event. And listen, when you see church as an event, then skipping church because I'm sleepy, that's okay. It's just an event. Or church hopping, that's okay. It's all the same.31:14This church, that church, whatever. We just hop from church to church. It's okay. Or not getting involved. You warm a seat, usually, but I'm not going to get involved. That's okay. Listen, beloved, none of those things are okay. Because church is not an event. Church is participation with Jesus and people who identify with Jesus.31:46And when you finally get to the place where you are settled in your heart and mind and say, I participate with Jesus, I participate with the people of Jesus, when you fully grasp and understand and embrace what it means to participate with Jesus, then you will be able to face the things that can become idols for you and say, no, that's not who I am.32:15You see? Maybe money and stuff has been your idol. Maybe that's the thing that's tempted you. When you realize who you are in Christ, you're a participator in Christ. You're like, oh, that's just stuff. That's not important to me. No. Jesus is who I participate with. Or maybe it's addiction. Maybe you've been battling the idol of addiction.32:43And you realize, no, my identity is with Jesus. I'm done with that addiction because I'm not participating with Jesus and with the addiction at the same time. It just doesn't work that way. And for some, it's the idol of lust and all of the ways that that idol is worshipped. That you have to get to the place in your life, like, that's not who I am. That's just not me. I'm a participator in Jesus.33:13Christ. I belong to him. Not that. I'm done with that. That's what Paul's saying here. You've got to get the participation thing. You're not attending a church event. You are a participator in the life of Christ. All right? It's a matter of identity. Run from idolatry because of who you are. Number two, write this down. Three reasons to run from idolatry. Number two, because it's demonic.33:49Look at verse 19.33:50Paul says, what do I imply then?33:53That food offered to idols is anything?33:57Or that an idol is anything?34:00Paul's like, so what am I saying?34:02Am I saying that an idol itself is anything?34:04Am I saying that?34:06No, he's not saying that.34:07He just said that in chapter 8, verse 4.34:11Like, we just answered that question.34:13Look at verse 20. He goes, no. I imply that what pagans sacrifice, they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. Listen to what Paul's saying. Listen very close. He says, I'm not saying that there is a real God in the idol, but there is a real participation still taking place. Participation with who? He says right here. With demons. Church, demons are at work in idolatry. And if a person buys into an idol, any kind of idol, here, Thailand, wherever. When a person buys into an idol, demons will be at work to keep the person hooked into worshiping that idol. That's just the way it is. The first time we were talking about Thailand earlier, the first time I went to Thailand, I was 20 years old. I was a brand new Christian. Boy, that was an eye opener.35:42Like I said, I went to places that pockets of civilization that have never seen a different race of people at all. Well, this one village that we visited, there was a man there. I've never seen a human that looked like him. His whole head looked like, it was like a flesh-colored cue ball. There was no hair, and it It was perfectly round and smooth. And there were just like tiny little like slits where they're like for the nose. There was no nose. It's just these little slits. And the same with the eyes peering behind these really tiny little slits. And he had he had a trach. And it was very strange. Like I've never seen a human that looked like this. And I asked our missionary Barnabas.36:42I said, Barnabas, that man that we saw, I said, does he have a disease or was there some genetic thing? Like, what's the matter with this man? Barnabas said, oh, he goes, this fellow, he used to look just like everybody else, all the other Thai people. He said he looked just like everybody else.37:12gave his life to Christ. He received Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. And he said, soon after he received Christ, an evil spirit in the form of a bear ripped his face off. And you might say, I don't believe that. Okay, well then you tell me what happened to this man. Because the guy on this earth that is my hero that I look up to in the faith more than anybody, That's the story that he told me. You tell me then. That this man was so into idolatry that the evil... That was a demon's way of saying, you're not leaving us. You're not aligning yourself with Christ. And he was physically attacked. There are demons behind idolatry. Deuteronomy 32.17 says they sacrificed the demons.38:12that were not God. Psalm 106, verse 37, they served their idols, which became a snare to them. They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the... You see that? It's all through the Old Testament. Demons are behind idolatry. Verse 21, he says, you cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord.38:42of demons. It's the same point. You can't do both. You can't. You can't participate with Christ and participate with demons. And understand, in idolatry, there's a lot more going on than bad theology. It's demonic. And Paul says, I don't want you to participate with demons. Like, why would you mess with that? And if you're like, oh, you know, So, Pastor Jeff, I believe that if you're truly born again, if you truly have God's Spirit, you can't be possessed by a demon. You just can't. A demon can't possess a true believer. And I agree with you. I believe that. I believe that 100% that a demon cannot possess a true believer. But why would you mess with that anyways? Really? You know, demons are powerful. And demons are evil.39:43Why would you mess with that? It's like keeping a pet cobra. Like, why would you do that? Earlier we talked about the idol of addiction. We did a whole sermon series on this one time. Addiction is a worship disorder. Addiction, ultimately, at its very foundation, is idolatry. I want you to think about addiction. What is it that keeps someone so hooked on the thing they're addicted to?40:12You think it's just physical? Really? Just physical? You mean a guy is willing to lose his wife because it's just a physical addiction? You think a guy's willing to lose his family? A guy losing everything he spent his life building up. He's willing to watch it be destroyed. You think it's only physical? It's demonic. That's why Paul reminds us, Ephesians 6.12, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over the present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Paul says run from idolatry. Why? Well, it's a matter of spiritual affliction. Run from idolatry because it's demonic. One more sensible people. Number three, because God is jealous for you.41:14Why do I run from idolatry? Because God is jealous for you. Last one. Look at verse 22. He says, shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he? Look, if you are in Christ, if you have believed in Jesus, his death, his resurrection, if you are in Christ, you belong to God. And if you belong to God, understand he is jealous.41:42for you.41:47Exodus 34.14 says, For you shall worship no other god, for the Lord whose name is jealous is a jealous god.41:58I thought jealousy was bad. Isn't jealousy bad?42:02Isn't jealousy a bad thing?42:07Not in this context.42:10Not when jealousy is about right to ownership. Not when jealousy is about you belong to me and something is threatening that. That is appropriate jealousy. God himself says he's jealous. Like 28 times in the Old Testament I think it was. Years ago to former ministry I had this young couple come in for marriage counseling.42:40You can kind of get a feel for where it's going when they come in and they're not sitting beside each other. They're sitting on opposite ends of the table. Like, oh, I see where this is going. And the wife came in. She looked like she was ready for a fight. And the husband just sat down, had his arms folded and his head down the whole time. And I'm like, so, what seems to be the problem? And she goes, he's jealous.43:14He's jealous because I'm always going to Ghost Riders with this guy friend of mine dancing all night and my husband's jealous oh you know what Ghost Riders is it's up in Butler I don't know if it's still there it's on like Route 8 North there's a honky tonk where they do line dancing you know the line dance where they're like You know what I'm talking about? Ghost riders. Okay, thank you, Jillian. That's not still a thing, Sharon. Did it close down? Okay. What was the thing back then? It was a big thing. Well, anyways, she goes, he's jealous that I go with my guy friend to dance.44:09She goes, he's jealous. And I said, he should be. She went through the roof. Like, what are you talking about? He should be. I said, he is your husband. You belong to him. And when something is threatening the marriage covenant like that, jealousy is appropriate. She's like, jealousy is wrong. I'm like, jealousy is not wrong. She goes, Jealousy is always wrong. I said, but you know the Bible says that God is jealous. She goes, the Bible does not say that. I'm like, here we go. And I walked her through all these verses where God says He is jealous. I'm like, see, we belong to God. He doesn't want us messing with something else. And it's the same principle in marriage. She goes, jealousy is wrong. I'm like, you're wrong.45:11Well, the counseling session did not end well, as you probably surmised. But then, like, for months after that, I would get phone calls from her. Like, I'd be in my office, and be like, Pastor Jeff, so-and-so on line one. I'm like, yeah, jealousy is always wrong. I'm like, oh, please lose my number.45:37But that's Paul's point here is, look, if you're in Christ, you belong to God, and God takes it seriously when you flirt with something else. When that ownership is threatened, God takes that very seriously. You belong to Him. Oh, by the way, we were talking about demons earlier. Demons, evil, powerful demons. Do you know the only thing worse than messing with a demon?46:10provoking God. Way worse. Infinitely worse. Provoking God. Why would you do something that you know provokes God? Why would you do that? Like, well, what will he do? Well, the Bible is full of God's reaction to idolatry. Read Deuteronomy. Read the Psalms. Read the prophets.46:38They're like, yeah, that is so Old Testament. Yeah, it is Old Testament. But this here that we're studying today is so New Testament. The Bible says it's still a bad idea to provoke God to jealousy. Are you stronger than he? No, we should just do what he says, right? So it's a matter of the fear of the Lord. Run from idolatry.47:13I just like you to bow your heads for a moment I want to ask you the question that I asked you earlier are you in danger of idolatry considering that idolatry is a heart issue considering that we can turn anything into an idol The answer is yes, we are all in danger of idolatry. And I just want to ask you today, what idol do you need to flee from? What is it today that if you were going to be completely honest, I would draw near to God if this thing wasn't in the way. What is that thing that's keeping you from drawing closer to God? What is that? The Bible says that's an idol. If you belong to Jesus, you don't need to crack a door open for a demon. You certainly don't need to provoke God.48:39Father in Heaven, we bow ourselves before You as Your church. God, we realize that idolatry is just as much a temptation for us today as it was to the people that Paul wrote to. As it was in Old Testament times. Father, You are greatly glorified when idols are torn down. We see that throughout.49:07Your Word when a king who did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, that was usually accompanied by him tearing down idols. And I just pray that for this church today, Father, that You would, by Your Spirit, by Your Word, You would give us the wisdom to identify the idols, and You would give us the faith to cast them down. Whatever that needs to be, however that needs to look, Father, let today be the day that idols are destroyed.49:37in our lives. We pray in Jesus' name. Amen. Small Group DiscussionRead 1 Corinthians 10:14-22What was your big take-away from this passage / message?In light of 1 Cor 10:16-17: How would you explain the Lord's Supper (the “participation” concept) to a new believer?How can believers be guilty of idolatry today, in our culture?How does idolatry make a believer participate with demons (1 Cor 10:20)?What does it mean that God is jealous (1 Cor 10:22)? How exactly do you think He will respond when He's provoked to jealousy?BreakoutPray for one another.

Introduction: How to Get Self-Controlled: (1 Corinthians 9:24-27) You Must Give Maximum EFFORT. (1 Cor 9:24) 2 Peter 1:5-6 - For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control... You Must Be Motivated By the PRIZE. (1 Cor 9:25) You Must Have a PLAN. (1 Cor 9:26) The Plan for Self-Control: AVOID Situations Where You'll Be Tempted. ACCOUNTABILITY. Put OFF / Put ON. You Must Have a Healthy Fear of Being DISQUALIFIED. (1 Cor 9:27) Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANKHint: Highlight blanks above for answers! Audio Transcript 00:36-00:41Open up those Bibles to the book of 1 Corinthians, in chapter 9.00:43-00:55After a little break from 1 Corinthians to go through our Easter series about the offices of Jesus, Prophet, Priest, and King, we are back in 1 Corinthians.00:56-01:05Let's get caught up, let's review, for those of us who have been part of it, and for those of you who are visiting with us, of 1 Corinthians so far.01:05-01:11The first four chapters are about the church being united.01:13-01:15Paul's like, "You guys have to get it together.01:15-01:19You've got to stop the faction, stop your little clique, stop the divisiveness.01:20-01:32You guys have got to get it together." And then, chapters 5 and 6, he talks about the church purified, dealing with sexual sin in the church.01:33-01:34you guys got to get it together.01:35-01:42All right, and then when you get to chapter seven and beyond, 1 Corinthians sort of turns into a Q&A session.01:43-01:46Paul's like, okay, you had some questions for me and I'm gonna answer them.01:46-01:55And the first issue was about marriage and the issues that go with that singleness, intimacy, all of those things.01:55-02:06And then this last stretch we've been on before our little break was the issue of Should Christians eat the meat that was sacrificed to idols?02:08-02:23And that turned into a whole discussion where Paul says the mature believer is willing to lay down his rights or her rights for the sake of winning the lost.02:24-02:30And that takes us to chapter nine, verse 24, picking up where we left off last time.02:30-02:35So, I'd like you to just bow your heads and just take a moment and please pray for me.02:36-02:44To be faithful to clearly communicate the word of God, I'll pray for you to have a heart open to receive what it is.02:46-02:49The Lord has something for each of us in this passage today, all right?02:50-02:50Let's pray.02:52-02:58Father in heaven, as we turn to your word today, it's such an ironic concept because we think we're in control.03:00-03:07But when we insist on doing things our way, we actually aren't in control at all.03:10-03:11You've commanded us, Father.03:11-03:15You've empowered us to be self-controlled people.03:17-03:40And I pray for every single one of us in this room, everyone who's watching the stream, everyone who's going to be downloading the podcast later, everyone who encounters this teaching from your word, Father, every single one of us, please, by the wisdom of your word, by the power of your Spirit, make us different than the world.03:43-03:50Make us kingdom people who are self-controlled. To your glory and honor, We pray in Jesus' name.03:52-03:56And all of God's people said, "Amen." Amen.03:59-04:03When you drive home today, just be careful.04:04-04:13I'm not sure legally if I'm allowed to say anything, but I have a pastor friend who, driving home from Easter, was crashed into by a door dash driver.04:15-04:17And I was so confused when he told me.04:17-04:25I'm like, "I thought they just brought the food to your house." Like, "Ah." But there's a lot of maniacs on the road.04:25-04:45You're like, "Yeah, I'm one of them." But several years ago, Aaron bought me a tire cover for the back of my Jeep that says, "To God be the glory." And at first I thought, that's just a nice little witnessing tool or something, right?04:45-04:49but I found that it's had a much different effect than I was expecting.04:50-05:18That thing has given me a lot of self-control. Aaron's always reminding me in traffic, "Remember what the back of your Jeep says, remember what the back of your Jeep says, do not give that driver a thumbs down, remember what the back of your Jeep says." And the reality is we all need help with self-control, don't we? We You and I, we have an enemy.05:20-05:22And if you're not careful, this enemy is going to destroy you.05:24-05:34And your enemy is not some spiteful coworker, not some other student in your school, not some slanderous church member.05:34-05:39And I'm not even talking about the devil himself.05:42-05:45Your biggest enemy is you.05:48-06:01And if we're going to be honest with ourselves, which we certainly encourage, many of your problems ultimately find their root in a lack of self-control.06:03-06:06I mean, just think about the problems a person can have.06:06-06:08Think about the problems that you have.06:08-06:13How much of it comes from just a complete lack of self-control, right?06:13-06:15People dealing with issues of lust.06:16-06:17It's a lack of self-control.06:18-06:21People dealing with anger issues, fits of rage.06:22-06:22What do they say?06:22-06:25"I just lost control." Right.06:26-06:28People dealing with addiction issues.06:29-06:33Zero self-control, whether it's a chemical or a drink or food.06:35-06:36Lack of self-control.06:36-06:37For some people, it's spending.06:39-06:40They just spend out of control.06:41-06:44There's no budget, there's no discipline, there's no self-control.06:47-06:49For some of you, it's your words.06:50-07:01Like, man, I just, I say things and I joke about things, I'm determined I'm not gonna do that, and then I just kinda go with it and I don't have any self-control.07:03-07:06But church, God's word is absolutely clear on this.07:07-07:13Your walk with Christ is to be on a path of self-control.07:15-07:19Self-control is going to affect every single area of your life.07:21-07:25Do you want to feel like you're walking in victory with Christ?07:28-07:30It's a path of self-control.07:32-07:34Lack of self-control can affect your physical health.07:36-07:39Lack of self-control can affect your mental health.07:40-07:46How many people dealing with depression, at the very base of it is, they lack self-control.07:50-07:54Lack of self-control can affect your witness for Christ.07:55-08:01So in this passage we're looking at today, Paul is going to show us how to grow in spiritual self-control.08:02-08:06And Paul says you need to learn principles from an athlete.08:07-08:17And they tell you, you know, when you're in preaching class, you don't always want to go to a sports illustration in your sermon.08:17-08:21And Paul didn't get the memo about no sports illustrations because that's where he went.08:22-08:28So this illustration we're going to look at is a familiar analogy to the Corinthians.08:29-08:32They were a sports-dominated culture.08:34-08:34Sound familiar?08:36-08:38They had the It's Me In Games.08:39-08:43It was every two or three years, depending on who you read.08:44-08:45But they were like the Olympics.08:47-08:49And I found this fascinating.08:49-09:01The athletes in these games had to take an oath that they were going to train for ten months, including abstaining from eating anything unhealthy.09:02-09:02Okay?09:03-09:35Funyuns for 10 months. These people were dedicated. But it was even harder than that because the last 30 days before the event, they were required to be in the gym every single day. And the winner of the event got a pine wreath. Alright, with that as a background, let's look at what Paul says, we're going to read all of it and then go back, pick up some principles.09:36-09:37That is a background.09:37-09:39They knew what he was talking about here.09:39-09:52He says in verse 24, "Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize?09:53-09:55So run that you may obtain it.09:57-10:02Every athlete exercises self-control in all things.10:04-10:11They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we, an imperishable.10:13-10:15So I do not run aimlessly.10:15-10:26I do not box as one beating the air, but I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others, I myself should be disqualified.10:28-10:30It's obvious Paul's point here, right?10:30-10:33He says our life is like a race.10:34-10:41And we need to run our race in such a way that we are useful to God.10:43-10:48And to do that, Paul makes it very clear, we must be self-controlled.10:48-10:53We have to be willing to give up anything that's going to hinder our race.10:55-11:03So using this race metaphor, God gives us principles for self-control.11:03-11:07So if you're taking notes on your outline, I certainly encourage you to do that.11:08-11:11Just very simply, here's the point.11:11-11:12This is how to get self-controlled.11:13-11:18Number one, you must give maximum effort.11:21-11:25You must give maximum effort.11:25-11:26Look at verse 24 again.11:27-11:39He says, "Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize?" Here it is.11:40-12:09run, that you may obtain it." Now their race only had one winner. But this prize he's talking about in this passage is open to everyone because it's your own race. Listen, in this race you're not competing with anyone but yourselves. You're like, "What's this prize he's talking about? Only one receives a prize. I knew what it was for the athletes, but how How does this analogy translate spiritually?12:10-12:12What prize is he talking about here?12:16-12:19You know, when you read the Bible, you have to read it in context.12:20-12:30You know, too many people just pull a passage out and kind of run with it, but he's keeping the same train of thought going throughout this whole section.12:32-12:33What is the prize?12:34-12:39Well, in the previous section, he talked about being all things to all people.12:41-12:43Why? Why, Paul?12:44-12:47If you recall, he said he wants to win people.12:48-12:49Win people.12:50-12:51He said it five times.12:52-12:54Verse 19, verse 20, verse 21, verse 22.12:54-12:58Paul's like the Jews, those under the law, those outside the law, the weak.12:58-13:00I want to win lost people.13:00-13:03That's the prize in view here.13:03-13:13You see, the prize he's not talking specifically here about salvation, or heaven, or some believers' heavenly rewards specifically.13:13-13:15All of those are prizes for sure.13:15-13:18But specifically in this context, he's talking about people.13:20-13:23Specifically here, he's talking about winning lost people with the gospel.13:24-13:34You see, this flows from the thought of the previous passage where he says, "Holding on to your rights can make you lose your opportunity to share the gospel and win people.13:38-13:41So what's his point here with this analogy, with this illustration?13:42-13:43This is the whole point.13:46-13:52If you're concerned about winning the lost, listen, church, you have lost your audience.13:54-13:55You have ruined your opportunity to share.13:56-14:04You have shot yourself in the foot when you're trying to win someone to Christ, but they don't see Christ in you.14:10-14:15You see, if somebody looks at your life, somebody that you're trying to win to Christ, they look at your life and they see sin.14:16-14:18They see hypocrisy.14:18-14:22And you're telling them that they need Jesus like you need Jesus.14:22-14:26They're thinking, well, Jesus didn't seem do you any good.14:27-14:32You know, all your church, and all your Bible studies, and all your Sunday school didn't seem to help you at all.14:33-14:35So why would I be interested in that?14:39-14:46That's why Paul says, "Run that you may obtain the prize." Run that you may obtain the prize.14:46-14:48You're like, well, that's obvious, right?14:49-14:51I mean, you run like you're trying to win.14:55-14:58He's talking about putting forth the effort.15:01-15:03Isn't this kind of a no-brainer?15:03-15:08I mean, what athlete would show up and not try to win?15:08-15:13Who shows up to the event and puts no effort into it?15:19-15:19a lot of people.15:23-15:24Here's what I mean.15:25-15:51For example, Christian men say, "I'm struggling with looking at things on the computer that I shouldn't look at." And I've dealt with a lot of this over the years where men come to me and they're like, "I'm struggling with that!" And I'm like, "Okay, well, tell me about your struggle." Well, I do it every day.15:52-15:53Like, that's not a struggle.15:54-15:55You know what struggle implies?15:57-16:01Struggle implies that there is some effort going on to deal with it.16:01-16:07But to just sort of roll over and give yourself to some besetting sin, and be like, well, it's a struggle.16:07-16:08You're not struggling.16:13-16:23Just doing it in no way suggests there's any effort for self-control with any besetting sin.16:24-16:24Not just that one.16:26-16:27And that's what Paul's saying here.16:27-16:28This is where it has to start.16:28-16:30Look, church, you've got to make the effort.16:33-16:37You can't just go to bed and hope the self-control fairy shows up.16:38-16:39You have to make the effort.16:42-16:46You have to get to the place where you're like, look, I am in a race, okay?16:47-16:52And maybe I haven't been putting the effort in, but that changes today.16:52-16:53I'm gonna win.16:53-16:58Look, you're gonna get to the place in your life where you say, I'm not okay with living in defeat.16:58-17:00I'm not okay with that anymore.17:01-17:02This ends right now.17:03-17:04You gotta put forth the effort.17:07-17:08How are you doing there?17:11-17:14As you know, I coach my son's deck hockey.17:14-17:17We, I've done it for years.17:18-17:25And several years ago, at the time, actually, the GOAT was coaching with me, we had a couple players on our team.17:25-17:26Don't say their name.17:26-17:36We had a couple, they're gonna be watching this, we're like, "Hey!" We had a couple players on the team a few years ago, extremely high-skilled players.17:40-17:52And during the game, we noticed - Sean and I did - we noticed that these two players in particular, any time we had a line change, they'd go out on the deck.17:54-17:57It was somewhere between a walk and a trot.18:00-18:37And I'm like, "Sean, what's going on there?" And he's like, "What are they doing?" we called them over like next line change and we're like what's going on out there why are you guys are like barely moving out there everybody else like running and they're just like and they said well we got a we got a big important game with another league this weekend we don't want to risk getting hurt so Sean and I were like hey that's great we'll help you with that you can and just sit the rest of the game.18:38-18:41Because we're not putting players out there that aren't putting forth any effort.18:42-18:43We're not going to do that.18:43-18:46You're embarrassing yourselves and you're embarrassing the team.18:49-18:54But you know, those two young men had everything they needed to win.18:55-18:57They had their equipment on.18:57-19:00They had a great knowledge of the game.19:01-19:03They had a lot of experience.19:04-19:29what they didn't have that day? Effort. So you see, it doesn't matter what else they had. When there was no effort, it was game over before it started. It's like, why did you guys even show up? Why did you put your gear on and go on the deck if you don't want You don't have to make any effort.19:32-19:36And I think that describes a lot of Christians in their walk with Christ.19:40-19:50I mean, you come to church, you go to small group, you go to the men's conference, you go to the women's conference, and you show up.19:50-19:57You have everything you need to succeed, but there's just zero effort in the area of self-control.20:00-20:00It's a problem.20:02-20:03It's a problem.20:06-20:10Look what 2 Peter 1:5-6.20:10-20:11Same thing.20:11-20:22Look, "For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with..." Oh, oh, there it is again.20:24-20:25Self-control.20:27-20:28Yes, listen, I know.20:29-20:35Before you send me a text or an email, I know that self-control is a fruit of the Spirit.20:36-20:43I know that the only way that happens is if the Lord empowers you to do that.20:43-20:44I know that. Yes.20:44-20:47That is 100% true, and that is also another sermon entirely.20:48-20:51This is telling us right here.20:52-20:56This passage is telling us here, you and I are commanded to make every effort.20:57-20:58Are you doing that?21:01-21:02You must give maximum effort.21:04-21:07If you're not willing to do that, none of the rest of this sermon is going to apply.21:08-21:12But if you are willing to do that, if you're willing to say, "I'm done.21:12-21:16I'm done living in defeat." If that's you, great, let's keep going.21:16-21:19Number two, you must be motivated by the prize.21:21-21:23You must be motivated by the prize.21:24-21:25Look at verse 25 again.21:28-21:29Bless you.21:31-21:36"Every athlete exercises self-control in all things.21:39-21:53They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable." First of all, note, "every athlete." This isn't a passage for preachers and missionaries alone.21:54-21:55This is for you too.21:57-22:00And then notice he says self-control in all things.22:01-22:02All things.22:02-22:03Every area.22:04-22:14You have an area of your life right now where you're like, you know what, I think overall I'm doing good in my walk with Christ, but I do have this area where I'm not self-controlled.22:14-22:14Do you have that?22:19-22:20You need to stay motivated.22:21-22:22You've got to keep your eyes on the prize.22:28-22:29I like Paul's point here.22:30-22:32The comparison of the prizes.22:33-22:37Paul says here that these Greek athletes, all that training, right?22:37-22:40Ten months, 30 days, all that training.22:40-22:41And what do they win?22:43-22:44What do they win?22:44-22:49A Christmas decoration put on their head.22:52-22:53Hip, hip.22:54-22:55No.22:56-22:58No, not even close.23:00-23:01That's Paul's point, right?23:01-23:05He says, "They do all that for a lame prize." Talk about lame prizes.23:05-23:09In these past Olympics, didn't those medals like fall apart or something?23:09-23:15Wasn't there a whole thing like, "Hey, I've traded my whole life for this medal." Oh, and a stuffed animal, yay.23:16-23:16(audience laughing)23:19-23:30He goes, "It's a lame prize." It's like, you know, that's like several years ago, a bunch of guys from church, we went to, do you ever see those indoor places where you can throw the ax at the wood,23:30-23:31(imitates ax thudding)23:31-23:32when you're into the bulls eye,23:32-23:32(imitates ax thudding)23:33-23:34do you ever see these?23:34-23:40What's it called, the lumber jacks or something, or you know what I'm talking about?23:40-23:41The old ax throwing thing?23:42-23:48Well, a bunch of us went there, And there might've been some ladies there too, I don't remember, but here's what I do remember.23:50-23:51I won.23:53-23:53I won.23:56-23:58Yeah, thank you, the one person that's proud of me.23:58-24:02No, Tristan, just Tristan, just Tristan.24:03-24:05The rest of you, too late, thank you, Tristan.24:07-24:07I won.24:08-24:09Do you know what I won?24:11-24:11A sticker.24:11-24:12(Laughter)24:14-24:15I'm not even joking.24:16-24:19It's on my wastebasket in my office, the sticker.24:20-24:22That's what I want. And that's Paul's point here.24:22-24:36He goes, "They did all that training, all that competing, and all they got was a stupid wreath for their head." Paul's point here is, shouldn't we be more motivated?24:37-24:39Because our prize is winning people to Jesus.24:39-24:50We're talking about eternity, and we're talking about lost people who are going to suffer apart from the presence of God forever, and we have the opportunity to change that.24:54-25:00And look, if you've ever won someone to Christ, you know the humble joy that that brings.25:03-25:05And if you haven't, go do it.25:09-25:10And if you have, go do it again.25:12-25:14It's about winning people to Christ.25:14-25:15That's the prize.25:15-25:16That's the prize.25:17-25:28I know there are some people that are hearing this, and they're like, "Oh, that's the prize." Yet people aren't excited about the gospel because they aren't doing what makes the gospel exciting.25:29-25:31That's the problem in the church.25:31-25:33They're not living it, and they're not sharing it.25:34-25:35That's what makes the gospel exciting.25:38-25:39That's the prize.25:41-25:56I promise you, someday, someday, Christian, when you stand before the Lord, you're going to realize it was worth it.25:58-26:12You're going to stand before the Lord, you're going to say, "Jesus, You were worth it." You're going to say, "Jesus, every time I used the self-control you gave Me by the power of Your Spirit for the sake of imitating You, it was all worth it.26:12-26:22Every person that you reached, Jesus, through Me, that is now beholding Your glory and worshiping You for all of eternity, it's worth it.26:24-26:27There's a glorious victory celebration that's coming soon.26:29-26:31And Paul reminds us, keep your eyes on the prize.26:31-26:33Not some stupid wreath.26:34-26:35Perfecting eternity.26:38-26:40So keep control of yourself.26:42-26:44How to get self-control.26:44-26:45Maximum efforts.26:46-26:47Motivated by the prize.26:48-26:52Number three, you must have a plan.26:53-26:54You must have a plan.26:56-26:57Luke 26.26:59-27:04Paul says, "So, I do not run aimlessly.27:06-27:10I do not box as one beating the air.27:12-27:13I do not run aimlessly.27:15-27:18Track and field people, you know this, right?27:19-27:26When you show up for a meet, when you show up for a race, there has to be a track and a finish line, right?27:26-27:34You don't show up to the event, you're like, "I'm ready to run." They're just like, "Run wherever you want." Well, how do I know if I win?27:34-27:35That's his point.27:35-27:36I don't run aimlessly.27:37-27:39You got to stay on track.27:40-27:46You don't show up at the track meet and you just start running through the bleachers, running by the concession stand.27:47-27:48Well, this is my race.27:48-27:49No, no, no.27:50-27:51No track.27:54-27:55No finish line.27:57-27:58Likely, no effort.28:00-28:01Definitely no victory.28:04-28:05You have to have a plan to win.28:10-28:10Please hear me.28:12-28:14This is why many of you struggle with self-control.28:16-28:19Many of you struggle with self-control because you do not have a plan.28:21-28:21Here's what I mean.28:21-28:26You'll walk out of church today, and this is your big takeaway.28:26-28:27You'll say, "You know what?28:29-28:30He's right.28:31-28:33From now on I'm going to have self-control.28:36-28:41And you're going to leave it that vague, you're going to leave it that non-specific, and you're going to fail again.28:44-28:45Because you don't have a plan.28:49-28:50You're not being intentional.28:51-28:53You're running in a concession stand.28:54-28:55You have to have a plan.28:55-29:00So very quickly here, you're like, "Well, I don't know what the plan is." tells you what the plan is.29:00-29:02I'm going to give you the plan for self-control.29:03-29:04Start here, okay?29:06-29:07Three things, again, quickly.29:07-29:13We could spend a whole lot of time on these, but if you want to dig deeper, come and meet with one of our pastors.29:14-29:15We will be glad to walk through this with you.29:15-29:17But letter A, the plan for self-control.29:17-29:19Avoid situations where you'll be tempted.29:19-29:21We just talked about this recently in a message.29:23-29:28You know, I'd like to remind you, as I do often, I've never ever ever lost a fight to Mike Tyson.29:29-29:29Not once ever.29:30-29:32I have a perfect record against Mike Tyson.29:33-29:35Zero losses, thank you, thank you Tristan.29:35-29:37Tristan is the only person in this church that's proud of me.29:40-29:42I've never lost a fight to Mike Tyson, why?29:42-29:43Because I've never showed up.29:45-29:53Right, you have to avoid situations where you'll be tempted because I guarantee you if I would have showed up to fight Mike Tyson, my teeth would have been in the fourth row, okay?29:54-29:57you won't lose the fight if you don't show up.29:58-30:00So avoid situations where you'll be tempted.30:00-30:01Put up fences for yourself.30:02-30:06You're like, "Well, that sounds like legalism." Listen, it's okay to be a personal legalist.30:07-30:07It's okay.30:08-30:13Legalism is a problem when I start enforcing my convictions on you.30:13-30:14That's when it's a problem.30:14-30:19But when I have convictions and fences that I enforce on myself, that is healthy.30:20-30:21That is self-control.30:23-30:24You can be a personal legalist.30:25-30:25It's okay.30:27-30:29But avoid situations where you'll be tempted.30:30-30:31Letter B, how about accountability?30:32-30:33Accountability.30:33-30:35You should be in a small group.30:36-30:39You should have a trusted brother or sister in Christ.30:40-30:41Somebody that you can be open with.30:41-30:43Somebody that you can share your heart.30:44-30:45Where you're really struggling.30:45-30:46Where you really need prayer.30:46-30:48Where you really need them to check up on you.30:48-30:53You should have a two-way street with someone that way.30:53-31:04Someone that's not going to judge you or look down on you or be harsh with you, but somebody who's going to love you through it and encourage you.31:05-31:06And you do that for them.31:06-31:07Accountability.31:11-31:13The third plan for self-control.31:14-31:14Put off, put on.31:16-31:17Put off, put on.31:18-31:19This is all through the Bible, by the way.31:21-31:24This is a key piece in your personal discipleship.31:24-31:26This is a key piece in your walk with Christ.31:29-31:30Here's the short version.31:30-31:32The Bible doesn't tell you to just stop sinning.31:33-31:37The Bible tells us that you need to replace sinning with something good.31:38-31:40That's over and over and over in Scripture.31:43-31:45It's like, "Okay, stop sinning." No, no, no. Don't stop sinning.31:46-31:47Replace sinning.31:48-31:51Take the sin off and then replace it with something else.31:56-32:07If you've ever come to one of us for counseling, especially if you're dealing with a besetting sin, this is what we do, because this is what the Bible commands.32:08-32:11That besetting sin, okay, here's what we're going to do.32:11-32:18We're going to look at it the way God looks at it, and we're going to replace that sin with something else, with something that honors and glorifies God.32:20-32:22It's like the old story.32:24-32:25I've shared this with you before.32:26-32:27I didn't make this up.32:27-32:30This is ancient, but I love it because it's effective and I like dogs.32:30-32:32But this guy had two dogs.32:33-32:36He had a white dog and a gray dog.32:38-33:35And every time he let him off the leash to eat, that old gray dog, he just beat that white dog up and the gray dog got all the food. So over time the gray dog was getting stronger and stronger and the white dog not getting to eat was getting weaker and weaker and the guy's like this isn't working. So here's what he did he he leashed both dogs and for a season he gave the white dog all the best most Awesome dog food kibbles and bits and bits and bits and and the gray dog He barely gave enough food to keep it alive. It's just an illustration. It's made up. Do not call PETA But the guy says no for a season I'm only feeding the white dog So, you know what happened the white dog got bigger and stronger in the gray dog at that And that season got weaker and weaker. So when he let him off the leash guess which dog was stronger, right?33:35-33:39The point of the story is this, the dog that you feed is going to be the stronger dog.33:42-34:00And if you find in your life that you're constantly feeding your sin, whatever your sin, your besetting sin is, your sin tendency, if you're constantly feeding that, it's a lot harder if you don't want to do the right thing when you're constantly feeding doing the sinful thing.34:00-34:03Self-control is feeding the white dog.34:03-34:05I'm only going after the things that honor the Lord.34:06-34:07That's what I'm going after.34:07-34:08I'm not feeding my sin.34:08-34:11I'm feeding righteousness, so to speak.34:14-34:15That's the plan.34:16-34:20I want to remind you that self-control has to happen before you encounter temptation.34:21-34:27Self-control isn't, well, I hope if I encounter a temptation today, I hope I stand strong.34:28-34:29It's usually too late by then.34:30-34:31The work has to be done beforehand.34:32-34:34Decisions have to be made beforehand.34:36-34:48That's why Paul here says in the second part of the verse, "I do not box as one beating the air." Same principle, right?34:48-34:49Paul says I have a plan.34:49-34:50I stick to the plan.34:50-34:52I stay focused on the plan.34:52-34:53Like wait, wait, wait, wait.34:54-34:55Boxing? I thought we were talking about racing.34:58-34:59I thought we were talking about running.35:00-35:56boxing thing. You know that'd be a great new sport. Wouldn't that make the Olympics so much more interesting if the people that were running were also allowed to punch each other? Wouldn't that be awesome? You know, because you, right, as one person pointed out, you would have one guy that's like really fast and like he's not getting punched and he's probably gonna win but I think that everybody faster. And I think it would really make those middle-of-the-pack people... I think we need to get on this. So what's he talking about here? Well, Paul says, "Yeah, I'm still talking about racing, but while I'm running my race, I have an opponent who wants to knock me off track. I have this opponent that I I have to knock him out.35:58-36:00Like, who is that opponent, Paul?36:00-36:01And he's like, it's me.36:02-36:04I'm the biggest problem in my race.36:06-36:07My flesh is my biggest enemy.36:10-36:17Which is why number four leads us to this, you must have a healthy fear of being disqualified.36:19-36:21You must have a healthy fear of being disqualified.36:23-36:24Look at verse 27.36:25-36:39He says, "But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others, I myself should be disqualified." I was like, hey, hey, I control my body, not vice versa.36:39-36:42My body doesn't control me.36:42-36:46I tell my body what we're doing.36:48-36:51Paul, why are you so adamant about that?36:51-36:56Why are you coming in hot about self-control here?36:56-37:02What's your issue, Paul?" He tells us right here, he says, "Because I don't want to be disqualified." That's why.37:06-37:21You know, it's interesting, in these It's Me and Games, their Olympic Games, the whole The whole thing began with a herald.37:22-37:26They would have a guy who got up, he announced the contest.37:27-37:28He announced the games.37:29-37:30He announced the rules.37:30-37:32He announced the contestants.37:34-37:38And anyone who broke the rules was disqualified.37:38-37:39You're out.37:40-37:41We don't tolerate that.37:42-37:44And here's the point, church.37:46-37:57Paul here is telling us that the Christian is the herald and an athlete in the race at the same time.38:03-38:07Do you see why that's such an important point to make?38:10-38:21Paul is saying here, how embarrassing would it be You stood up and told everybody the rules, and then you got disqualified because you broke the rules.38:22-38:24How embarrassing would that be?38:25-38:27Oh, it's worse than embarrassing.38:31-38:36Because a ruined testimony discredits the gospel in the eyes of the unsaved.38:40-38:41It's Paul's point here.38:42-38:45He goes, "Look, you're no longer effective.38:48-38:50You're worthless when it comes to witnessing.38:50-38:52You've discredited yourself.38:54-38:54It's happened to too many.38:55-38:57It's happened to too many Christians.38:57-38:59It's happened to too many preachers.39:00-39:03You stand up and announce, and then you break the rules yourself.39:03-39:06Like, dude, shouldn't you have known more than anyone?39:11-39:13So you need another motivation for self-control?39:14-39:16You should have a healthy fear of failure.39:17-39:23And please, let's be clear, he is not, when he's talking about disqualification, he's not talking about your salvation.39:24-39:25Understand that.39:25-39:27You cannot lose your salvation.39:27-39:48If you are truly born again, I mean, if you are truly born again, you believe in Christ, you receive Christ, you believe in His death on the cross to take away your sins, If you believe He rose from the dead, He gave you the promise of eternal life, if you truly believe that, you are an adopted child of God.39:49-39:52You are sealed in the Holy Spirit and nothing can change that.39:52-39:55There is not a force in the universe that can change that.39:55-40:00And I see no language in the Bible that talks about being unadopted.40:02-40:05That talks about the seal of the Spirit being removed from you.40:05-40:07I don't see any language in the Bible about that.40:08-40:11He is not talking about losing your salvation.40:12-40:13You can't.40:13-40:17But, you can lose your ministry.40:21-40:29And if you're a believer, you know, that's one of the greatest losses that you can experience in this life.40:31-40:42Any ministry, however you serve God, Whatever you're doing for the king, you lose that.40:46-40:50You're like, "You know, I was partnering with the living God.40:50-40:54I was doing things that matter for eternity and it's over.40:55-41:01And I have no one to blame but myself because I just couldn't control myself.41:02-41:07And I got myself disqualified." on the outside looking in.41:09-41:13Watching other people do what used to give you so much purpose and joy.41:14-41:14You're disqualified.41:17-41:19You ruined your testimony.41:19-41:21You shattered people's trust in you.41:22-41:24You're no longer useful for ministry.41:26-41:27You're disqualified.41:29-41:31You should have a healthy fear of that.41:33-41:41You should always have it in the back of your mind what's at stake if you fail to be self-controlled.41:43-41:47If our worship team would come back up, I'd like you to just bow your heads, please.41:47-41:49I just want us to take a couple of moments.41:50-41:57I want us to take a couple of moments for prayer, self-evaluation.41:58-42:00You know, sometimes we get together and go to little groups and pray.42:03-42:05That's wonderful, but we're not doing that today.42:06-42:08Today, this is between you and the Lord.42:10-42:12Just you and the Lord.42:15-42:16Right now.42:19-42:26Is there any area of your life right now where you are not exercising self-control?42:28-42:30We talked about this not too long ago.42:30-42:30Confession.42:31-42:32Agreeing with God.42:33-42:35Do you need to do that today?42:35-42:36Agree with God.42:36-42:36Yeah, God, you know what?42:36-42:45This is an area, Father, where I have completely neglected to exercise any kind of self-control.42:46-42:55I just want to ask you today - your head's bowed - how much effort are you putting into this?42:57-43:00Can you honestly say you've been struggling with sin?43:01-43:06Or have you just been sort of letting sin walk all over you?43:08-43:10Are you putting forth any effort?43:12-43:14Do you realize the prize?43:17-43:19Oh, there are so many prizes.43:21-44:07Eternal life in the presence of our Lord, the rewards that come through faithful service, all of that, but specifically again, here he's talking about winning the lost in this whole section. He's talking about winning the lost. That's the prize. Changing eternity for people, winning people to Christ, should motivate us to repent of our hypocrisy. So Again, my friends, you don't want to walk out of here with some generic, "I'm going to try to be self-controlled." It's just not going to work.44:08-44:09You've got to have a plan.44:11-44:18Are you willing to put up fences for yourself to stay out of places where you know you're going to lose that fight if you walk in there?44:20-44:22Are you willing to get accountability?44:22-44:33Are you willing to replace that sin, that time, that energy, that effort you're putting into sin, will you put that into something that honors the Lord instead?44:33-44:37You're going to start feeding the white dog and stop feeding the gray dog.44:38-44:39What's your plan?44:41-44:42Remember what's at stake.44:44-44:55Oh yes, there's always shame and embarrassment in being found out that you've been living in some kind of unrepentant, besetting sin.44:57-45:15There's also forfeiting your ministry, disqualifying yourself, being completely ineffective for the kingdom because you were so unwilling to get with God.45:17-45:25Today's the day to put the flag in the ground, draw the line in the sand, whatever other metaphor you want to use, but today's the day.45:26-45:28We're changing things today.45:29-45:38Father in heaven, I pray for every single one of us who are called by Your name.45:40-45:45Father, we all have areas of our lives where we just have let it go.45:45-45:46We've made excuses.45:46-45:49We've not exercised any control.45:50-45:53Today, Father, let us be done with the excuses.45:53-45:56Give us a reality check on what's at stake.45:59-46:04The main thing, Father, is Your glory and honor.46:06-46:24So I pray today, Father, that we leave here recommitted that the light of Your Word, the and the light that comes from Your Holy Spirit would shine in all of the dark places in our hearts and minds and show us where we are not honoring You.46:26-46:32Father, let today be a day of confession and repentance.46:33-46:39Let us be people who actually show up to the race to win.46:42-46:46We thank You, Father, for the power that You give us to do that through Your Holy Spirit.46:48-46:52Give us the want to by that same power.46:53-46:56We pray in Jesus' name, Amen. Small Group DiscussionRead 1 Corinthians 9:24-27What was your big take-away from this passage / message?What strategies have you found effective to be self-controlled?Why do you think many Christians put little (or no) effort in self-control?The “prize” in this context is winning lost people. How is that a motivation to self-control?NO NAMES! – but do you know someone who disqualified themselves from ministry due to lack of self-control? How did you react to that news? How does this make an unbeliever think about the Gospel? BreakoutPray for one another. In what area are you struggling with self-control? What is your plan for change?

Introduction: Psalm 32:5 – I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Proverbs 28:13 – Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy. Conceal or Confess? If You Want to Confess: (1 John 1:5 - 2:6) You Have to Be Done LYING About Your Sin. (1 John 1:5-10) 3 Lies You Have to Stop Claiming: I BELIEVE in God. (When You Don't LIVE Like It.) (1 John 1:6-7) I'm a GOOD Person. (1 John 1:8-9) I Don't SIN. (1 John 1:10) You Have to Come to JESUS. (1 John 2:1-2) Your LIFESTYLE Proves Your Sincerity. (1 John 2:3-6) Hebrews 4:14 - Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANKHint: Highlight blanks above for answers! Audio Transcript 00:00-00:09Open up those Bibles to the passage that Levi just read, 1 John 1.00:12-00:14While you're turning there, let's just quiet our hearts for a moment.00:14-00:19And I'm going to ask that you would please pray for me to faithfully communicate God's Word.00:21-00:29And I'll pray for you to have a heart open to receive what it is the Lord wants to teach us from His Word tonight.00:29-00:31All right, let's pray.00:33-00:44Father in heaven, I pray that this time would allow us to feel the weight of what it is we're remembering here tonight.00:46-00:48We're so distracted with so many things.00:50-01:02I just pray, Father, by the power of Your Spirit, everything is off our minds and hearts except your word.01:06-01:14And that we would be honest enough with ourselves to see things as you see them.01:18-01:24Thank you, Father, for the sacrifice that was made.01:26-01:29You spared not your own son.01:34-01:38We pray in the glorious name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, amen.01:40-01:41Amen.01:41-01:46We're in this series, this short series called Respect the Office.01:49-01:54That if Jesus presented a resume, it would have a lot on it.01:56-02:00But there are three roles in particular.02:02-02:07We're just sort of slowing down and looking at, and last Sunday Pastor Rich talked about Jesus as prophet.02:08-02:10He is the word of God.02:10-02:14Who God is, is represented in Jesus.02:16-02:22Tonight, we're going to see that Jesus Christ is our priest.02:25-02:27What is a priest, anyways?02:28-02:36Well, in the simplest terms, the prophet represented God to man.02:37-02:42And the priest represents man to God.02:43-02:50And in the Old Testament, the priests offered sacrifices from sinners to God at the temple.02:51-03:12So tonight, as our minds naturally think of Jesus Christ on the cross, what you need to see in your mind in that moment when Jesus was on the cross, was He was not only the the sacrifice that was being offered for sin.03:12-03:17At the same time, He was the priest who was offering the sacrifice.03:19-03:28Jesus Christ, as our priest, came to deal with our sin.03:32-03:51There is one thing you must do Before you can receive forgiveness, before you can have a relationship with God at all, there's one thing you have to do.03:52-03:53You have to confess.03:55-04:09And if you're a Christian, if you are truly born again, and you're sitting here tonight, and you're wondering why your walk is so weak, why you aren't the strong Christian that you thought you would be by now.04:13-04:15Maybe you stopped confessing.04:16-04:19Look at verse 9 again.04:21-04:30If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.04:34-04:36We're going to talk about confess tonight.04:37-04:39What does it mean to confess?04:41-04:44Well, in the Greek, it's a compound word.04:44-04:54It literally means, "say the same." In other words, to confess means that you're agreeing with God.04:56-04:58Agreeing with God that you are a sinner.04:58-05:02Agreeing with God that your sin is wrong.05:05-05:06I agree with God.05:07-05:08It's saying I'm guilty.05:09-05:11I'm not a good person.05:11-05:16I look at my actions and I do things that are just shameful.05:18-05:21I hear the words that come out of my mouth sometimes.05:22-05:24What is wrong with me?05:27-05:27Shameful.05:29-05:38So I look into my heart and I realize, there's something broken in me.05:40-05:41There's something evil in me.05:44-05:47How is it that I can be so full of selfishness?05:47-05:51How is it that I can be so full of hatred sometimes?05:52-05:53How is it that I can be so full of lust?05:55-05:56Why is that?06:00-06:01Confessing is agreeing with God.06:05-06:10And the three hardest words that you will ever say, it's not, "I love you." Those ones are hard.06:10-06:12But there are three harder words to say.06:13-06:24And those words are these, "I have sinned." To get to the point where you are saying this from your heart, "I've sinned.06:25-06:26I have sinned.06:27-06:30You know, I was thinking about that a lot this week and preparing for this message.06:31-06:32Why is that so hard?06:35-06:46I mean, it's clear in the Bible, it's clear from observation that we have a problem, but why is it so hard for me to get to that place where I say, "I have sinned"?06:46-06:49Why is it so hard for you to admit that, to confess that?06:52-06:53I think it's a lot of things.06:55-06:57I think the big reason is pride, right?06:58-07:02To admit that you're a sinner is also an admission of weakness.07:02-07:06I'm not the morally strong person that I want to think that I am.07:07-07:15Maybe it's hard to confess that I am a sinner because deep down the reality is we actually kind of like our sin.07:16-07:19We would miss it if it wasn't in our lives.07:19-08:13is that. If you're sitting here tonight and you're like, "Well, I don't feel like I love my sin. I want out of it, but I feel trapped in it. I'm in bondage to it." That's hard to confess. That something is so ruling over you. "I don't want to do this, but I keep doing it. What is my problem?" You know, I think really for a lot of us, it's hard to say I have sinned because it's just so hard to not see yourself as the hero in your own story. Sometimes you're the bad guy. So am I. Acknowledging sin is uncomfortable. It's offensive. And it just it goes against our natural inclinations.08:17-08:18Here's the reality from God's Word.08:20-08:21Unsaved people.08:22-08:29People who don't sincerely know the Lord, are always going to try to downplay sin.08:31-08:32It's not that big of a deal.08:33-08:36And one of the ways they do that is by trying to redefine sin.08:36-08:40We won't call it sin, we'll call it something else and kind of soften the blow.08:41-08:46But the big one is, unsaved people conceal their sin.08:47-08:48Let's keep it hidden.08:48-08:50Let's make sure nobody finds out about it.08:50-08:52They conceal their sin.08:55-09:05Saved people, on the other hand, according to that passage Levi just read, saved people confess their sin.09:08-09:10So tonight I just want to ask you one question.09:12-09:12What are you doing?09:16-09:18Conceal or confess?09:19-09:20Which one are you?09:25-09:32Bible's so clear about this and what's at stake in this.09:33-09:40Psalm 32.5 says, "I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity.09:41-09:49I said, 'I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,' and you forgave the iniquity of my sin." Do you see that?09:51-09:52Conceal or confess.09:55-10:20Same thing, Proverbs 28.13 says, "Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper. But he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy." So what are you doing with your sin? Are you concealing it? Or are you confessing it?10:23-10:33So on your outline, if you're taking notes, it says at the top, "Conceal or confess?" And there might be some people in here that are honest enough to say, you know what, I'd rather just conceal it.10:34-10:37And I would say respectfully, I don't know why you're here tonight.10:41-10:42You should have stayed home.10:45-10:48But I do know that there are some people here tonight that are like, you know what?10:51-10:53It's gone on beyond too long.10:54-10:54I need to confess.10:56-10:57I need to confess.10:57-11:03Well, I'm so glad you're here, if that's you, because I want to help you with that, from the Word of God.11:03-11:07So on your outline, if you want to confess, number one, this is where you have to start.11:09-11:11You have to be done lying about your sin.11:11-11:12You have to be done with that.11:13-11:16You have to be done lying about your sin.11:18-11:19Again, look at verse five.11:20-11:29He says, "This is the message we have heard from Him "and proclaimed to you, God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.11:30-11:31God is light.11:32-11:38We could spend a whole sermon series talking about that, but the bottom line is this, that represents life.11:39-11:40That represents holiness.11:41-11:43There is no death in God.11:43-11:45There's no unholiness in God.11:45-11:46There's no sin.11:46-11:48There's no darkness of any kind in God.11:49-11:54A man, on the other hand, I probably don't have to sell you on that, do I?11:57-12:04And you see, when we talk about confessing, yes, you absolutely must confess with your mouth.12:07-12:10But, it has to ultimately start in your heart.12:12-12:18Because you can say something with your mouth that isn't actually true in your heart.12:20-12:27And when you say something that's not true, that's called telling a lie.12:28-12:30And that's where John starts here.12:31-12:32Like, you want to confess?12:33-12:33You've got to be done lying.12:36-12:46You see, three times in this passage, he says, "if we claim" or "if we say" "if we say" "if we say" He's pointing out the lies We tell ourselves.12:47-12:48He goes, you've got to stop that.12:49-12:50Let's look at them quickly.12:51-12:53Three lies you've got to stop claiming.12:54-12:55You've got to stop these.12:55-12:57Number, or letter A, sorry, letter A.12:58-13:00Here's a lie that a lot of people are saying.13:01-13:02I believe in God.13:05-13:07When you don't live like it.13:09-13:15People are saying, yeah, I believe in God, but they don't live like they know Him at all.13:16-13:18It's a lie, right?13:18-13:19Not my opinion, look at verse six.13:20-13:31He says, "If we say we have fellowship with Him, with God, while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.13:32-13:35If we claim we have fellowship with Him," do you know what that is?13:36-13:40That's the guy or the girl that says, "Oh, I believe in God.13:41-13:42"Oh yeah, yeah, I believe in God.13:42-13:43I know God.13:44-13:49I mean, yeah, I'm a Christian." But he says they walk in darkness.13:49-13:54They're living in some secret, sinful lifestyle.13:57-13:59And John points out here, look, you're living a lie.14:00-14:02You're just, you're living a lie.14:03-14:05I don't know who you think you're fooling, but it's not God.14:07-14:08And this is a hard truth.14:11-14:14that I think tonight we need to confront ourselves with.14:15-14:18Not everyone who claims to know God actually does know God.14:20-14:23Not everyone who claims they know God is actually heading to heaven.14:26-14:33Not everyone who's sitting in a church, not just tonight, any church, week after week, not everyone sitting in a church is saved.14:37-15:04I got to tell you, I talk to a lot of people who will be talking about a family member of theirs, their brother, or their adult children, or their parents, and we'll be talking about these family members, and I'm like, "Well, do they know the Lord?" And they'll say, "Well, yeah, they're Christians." And then they say, "But they haven't gone to church "in years, they're not interested in praying.15:05-15:08They really don't want to have any spiritual conversations.15:09-15:12You know, I invited them to Good Friday service and they absolutely didn't want to come.15:14-15:15But yeah, he's a Christian.15:18-15:24I mean, yeah, he's living in adultery right now.15:25-15:26Oh, he's foul-mouthed.15:27-15:29And he is such a heavy drinker.15:32-15:32But he's a Christian.15:35-15:36Based on what?15:37-15:39What are you basing that on?15:39-15:41And you know what the response usually is?15:41-15:47Well, one time we were in a church and they said they believed in God.15:48-15:51They like raised their hand in a service one time.15:54-15:55But what does the Bible say?15:56-15:58Do you see that in verse six?15:58-16:03If we say we have fellowship, but we're walking in darkness, what does your Bible say?16:04-16:05It says you're lying.16:06-16:06It's just not true.16:10-16:12But on the other hand, look at verse seven.16:12-16:25He says, "But if we walk in the light, "as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, "and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin." Walking in the light.16:26-16:27No hidden sin.16:29-16:35No secret sin that you hope to heaven nobody finds out about.16:43-16:46You sin, you confess.16:48-16:49You are walking in the light.16:50-16:51You're like, yeah, I did sin.16:51-16:53That was wrong what I did.16:53-16:54It was wrong in God's eyes.16:54-16:55I've sinned against my family.16:55-16:56I'm confessing that.16:56-16:58I'm getting with God on this.16:58-17:04I'm getting accountability on this to help me drag this to the light.17:07-17:09So what's your plan tonight?17:09-17:10Are you going to conceal?17:12-17:13Or are you going to confess?17:20-17:23You're walking in the light or you're walking in darkness?17:26-17:28There's no middle ground, by the way.17:29-17:33The Bible doesn't talk about walking in half light or half dark.17:33-17:36What typifies your life right now?17:37-17:39Which one describes you?17:40-17:42Are you walking in the light?17:45-17:47Or is there a whole lot of stuff that you're trying to keep concealed?17:51-17:53Well, John says, "Stop lying.17:54-17:54"Stop lying.17:54-17:59"Your claim of believing in God means nothing if your life is characterized by sin.18:00-18:03All right, so that's a lie you have to stop claiming.18:03-18:06Here's another lie you have to stop.18:07-18:08Letter B, I'm a good person.18:11-18:12I'm a good person.18:12-18:14Well, let's see what the Bible says about that, verse eight.18:14-18:22If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.18:23-18:25We claim we're without sin.18:26-18:27I'm not that bad.18:28-18:32I mean, I'm actually a good person.18:33-18:39Like deep down, you know, deep down, I have a good heart.18:40-18:42I'm a good person deep down.18:44-18:45God knows that.18:48-18:49Here's what God knows.18:51-18:54God knows that you were born with a sin nature that you inherited from Adam.18:55-18:58that's been passed down from generation to generation, and you got it.19:02-19:02Don't believe me?19:04-19:07Sometimes I have people challenge me on this, like I don't think that we're born with a sin nature.19:08-19:09I don't think that that's true.19:09-19:11I don't think that we are born with a sin nature.19:11-19:13I'm like, have you ever been around a kid?19:14-19:15Ever?19:17-19:18(congregation laughing)19:19-19:21That's exactly what I'm talking about.19:25-19:28That's exactly what I'm talking about, that little sinner tried to hijack the sermon.19:31-19:33You just proved my point, little lamb.19:40-19:43And look, if you don't have kids, there's plenty of people around here that do have them.19:43-19:45I'm sure they'll let you hang out.19:47-19:49I'm sure they might ask you to watch them for a few days.19:55-19:56Who has ever taught a kid?19:58-19:59I mean, think of a little toddler.20:00-20:01Think of little Joey back there.20:02-20:06Does dad ever sit down with him and say, "Listen, listen, Joey, I'm gonna teach you "something important here.20:07-20:12"If you learn how to lie convincingly, "you're gonna go far in life, all right?20:13-20:17"I guess, son, what I'm saying is "always cover your tracks, okay?20:18-20:25"Because if you got away with it, then you've mastered the art of deception.20:26-20:29Has any dad sat down with their kid and taught them that?20:29-20:30I sure hope not.20:30-20:31You're a monster.20:31-20:33You're a monster if you're teaching your kid how to sin.20:34-20:36But you don't have to.20:37-20:45How is it that these kids automatically know how to sneak, how to lie, how to steal, how to be selfish?20:45-20:46How do they know that?20:47-20:50Like, were they reading some manual in the womb?20:50-20:51Like, what is going on here?20:54-20:55We're born with a sin nature.20:57-20:59So if you're like, "Well, you know what?21:00-21:01I'm really not that bad.21:01-21:05I'm not really a bad person." The Bible says you're deceiving to yourself.21:05-21:09You're telling a lie, and then you're turning around and believing the own lie that you just told yourself.21:12-21:13You say you have a good heart?21:15-21:30Actually if that's your stance, if that's your stance here tonight, to think that you're You're really a good person, I've got to tell you, you're in a hopeless situation when it comes to the gospel, because you're not going to confess.21:32-21:36What can God do for someone who doesn't think that they need Him?21:39-21:40It's a hopeless situation.21:44-21:45Look at verse nine again.21:45-21:56If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins, excuse me, forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.21:59-22:02I did a lot of reading this past week in preparing for this.22:02-22:12And you get to this verse, and these scholars and commentators are like, is this verse for believers, or is this verse for unbelievers?22:16-22:28The answer is yes. The answer is yes. Confession is like repentance. Think about repentance.22:29-22:44Is repentance something you do when you first come to Christ? Yeah. But if you're a true born again believer in Christ, when do you stop repenting? Never. In Matthew 3.8, Luke 3.8, both say the exact same thing.22:45-22:49Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.22:49-22:53Repentance is to be the lifestyle of the follower of Jesus.22:54-22:56And confession is exactly the same.22:56-22:59In coming to Christ, you have to confess.22:59-23:07And if you're a Christian, your life is typified by constant acknowledgment of your sin before a holy God.23:11-23:18regular occurrence in our walk with Christ, Christians are characterized as confessors.23:20-23:23A true Christian is always going to God.23:23-23:25"God, I hate my sin.23:25-23:27God, this is what I did.23:27-23:29I messed up.23:29-23:29I sinned.23:30-23:33God, specifically, here is what I did.23:34-23:35God, I need to change.23:35-23:37God, I'm confessing that.23:38-23:42Thank You for the forgiveness that You've purchased through Your Son, Jesus Christ, God.23:42-23:49I need the power of Your Spirit to help me repent." That is how a Christian confesses their sin.23:51-23:54And John says that God's response is to forgive and purify.23:56-23:57Why does He do that?23:59-24:00Because you're worthy?24:03-24:03Not hardly.24:04-24:09John says he does that because he, he is faithful and just.24:11-24:17See, God's forgiveness is based on his promise, not your performance.24:17-24:21God's forgiveness comes to you on his terms, not your terms.24:22-24:28And God's forgiveness, the assurance that we have that we are forgiven is because of God's integrity.24:30-24:39that I can say, "I know that I have the promise of heaven," not because of me, I know I have the promise of heaven because I believe in a God who always keeps His word.24:41-24:42And this is what He's promised.24:45-24:50So if you're sitting here tonight, you're like, "Yeah, I'm a good person." You're really not.24:52-24:59As long as you think you are, you're not going to understand what the cross of Jesus Christ was all about.25:01-25:03Three lies you need to stop claiming.25:04-25:07Letter C, same vein here, right?25:07-25:08Letter C, I don't sin.25:11-25:12I don't sin.25:13-25:15Believe it or not, I've met people that have made that claim.25:15-25:16Look at verse 10.25:16-25:30He says, "If we say we have not sinned, "we make him a liar and his word is not in us." If we claim we have not sinned, that's the person, And again, I've met these people, they're like, "Sin?25:33-25:43I don't sin." Well, you did just call God a liar then because He says differently.25:46-25:50It's one of the interesting things about sin, wouldn't you say?25:50-26:00interesting, that we tend to minimize our sin and we maximize other people's sin.26:02-26:08Ours is so small and insignificant, but somebody else's, oh boy, they really blew it.26:14-26:16God wants to deal with you about your sin.26:18-26:24And you can't confess Jesus as a Savior if you say you don't have what He saves from.26:27-26:36And if you refuse to acknowledge your sin, you refuse to admit, you refuse to confess your sin, then the cross means nothing.26:38-26:45And we come to a service like this, we think of Jesus Christ on the cross, and we're really left wondering why did he die in the first place?26:48-26:49Concealer confess.26:53-26:53What are you doing?26:58-26:59Concealer confess.26:59-27:01Are you going to leave tonight lying to yourself?27:04-27:07Or are you going to finally agree with God?27:12-27:23So if you want to confess, if that's you, and I want to help you, first of all, you gotta stop lying to yourself, you gotta stop lying to God, you gotta stop lying to everybody, you gotta stop the lies.27:23-27:27Number two, you have to come to Jesus.27:30-27:33Confession is about the person of Jesus Christ.27:33-27:47Look at verse one, he says, in chapter two, "My little children, I'm writing these things to you "so that you may not sin." But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.27:49-28:01John says, "Look, I'm writing this so you don't sin." God's Word doesn't allow us to have a dismissive attitude about sin, which a lot of Christians have.28:02-28:05It's like, "Well, yeah, I sin, but it doesn't really matter.28:05-28:10I'm forgiven in Christ." we just sort of dismiss it.28:12-28:13John goes, "No, no, no, no.28:14-28:35I'm writing these things to you so that you are turning from sin." He goes, "But if anybody does sin, and you will," spoiler alert, "you will," John says, "when you sin, you have an advocate, if you're in Christ." And this is one of the most beautiful pictures in all the Bible.28:36-28:39You know, it's a courtroom scene actually.28:39-28:45Revelation chapter 12 says that Satan is the accuser of the brethren.28:45-28:46Do you know what Satan does?28:47-28:52He goes before God, and if you're a follower of Christ, Satan accuses you before God.28:53-28:55Satan's like, he's no good.28:57-28:58Did you hear what he said?28:58-29:00That's one of your guys?29:00-29:01Did you hear what he said?29:02-29:03That's what Satan does.29:03-29:06Satan, he's a slanderer, he's an accuser.29:06-29:10But you see, when Jesus Christ is your advocate, he is your defense attorney.29:11-29:22That when Satan says, "Do you see what a miserable person this is?" Jesus steps up and says, "He did sin, "but I took his sin on myself when I died on the cross." He's forgiven.29:22-29:25He is not guilty because I paid that penalty.29:27-29:28And Satan goes to the next person.29:28-29:30You see what a miserable person she is?29:30-29:31Do you hear how she talked?29:31-29:32Do you see what she did?29:33-29:43Jesus says, "I died for her." All of the sin that was committed by her, Jesus said, "When I was on the cross, I paid the penalty." She is not guilty.29:45-29:50That's what it means that Jesus as our advocate, and that is way better than Edgar Snyder.29:53-29:55Owen might not think so.29:57-29:58If you know, you know.29:59-30:00Look at verse two.30:03-30:10He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.30:11-30:12Propitiation.30:12-30:15Oh, that's like one of the best words in the Bible.30:15-30:20John's just hitting like all of the most awesome concepts in a row right here.30:21-30:27Propitiation, your Bible might translate it, atoning, sacrifice, but this is a concept that you really need to understand.30:28-30:29Propitiation just simply means this.30:30-30:34God is satisfied with what Jesus did on the cross.30:35-30:36That's what it means.30:36-30:43When Jesus was on the cross, God was pouring out his wrath on Jesus for my sin and for your sin.30:44-30:47God put all of the wrath that I deserve on Jesus.30:47-30:50And that is awesome news because you know what that means?30:50-30:52God has no more wrath left for me.30:54-30:57And if you're in Christ, he has no wrath left for you.30:57-31:07And Christian, you've gotta get this in your head I've talked to so many Christians that are like, "I just really feel like God's mad at me, "and I feel like God's so disappointed in me." He's not!31:08-31:16It's not like God poured out His wrath on Jesus, and then God turns around and sees you sinning, and is like, "Oh, I'm still mad!31:17-31:20"I gotta punish her now, too!" That's not how it works.31:22-31:23Propitiation, God is satisfied.31:24-31:29He has no wrath for you if you've truly received Jesus Christ.31:32-31:47And not just for you, not just for you, look at verse two, he goes on to say, "Not for ours only, "not for our sins only, "but also for the sins of the whole world." Again, this is where a lot of scholars get caught up.31:50-31:55I just, you're like, "Oh, you think you're smarter than those scholars." No, I don't.31:55-31:57I think they're too smart sometimes.31:58-32:01I think they make this way too complicated.32:03-32:04You know what I mean by that?32:04-32:16You know, I was reading, and I heard some pastoral panel thing, they were talking about this very verse, and they were like, what is being talked about here for the sins of the whole world?32:16-32:19Is he talking about the elect?32:19-32:20Like it's just for the elect?32:22-32:25Is this speaking to limited atonement?32:28-32:33You're making this way more complicated than it needs to be.32:33-32:34Do you know what this means?32:35-32:36Do you know what this verse means?32:36-32:38I'll tell you what this verse means.32:39-32:39Right here.32:41-32:49What this verse is saying is I can confidently say to anyone, when you believe in Jesus, you will be forgiven of your sins.32:50-32:52You will be adopted as a child of God.32:52-32:54I can say that to anybody, because it's for the whole world.32:54-33:04I can say that here, I can say that in Thailand, I can say that in Blonox, it doesn't matter where I am, this truth holds, Jesus forgives sin.33:06-33:08Let God figure out all that other stuff.33:10-33:14My job is to tell the world, and your job too.33:16-33:17Concealer confess.33:19-33:19Conceal or confess.33:21-33:31At this point, if you're still wanting to conceal, you're committed to walking out of here like, "Yeah, I just can't, I can't come clean about my sin.33:31-33:38"Not to God, not to anybody." Well, it's not gonna go well for you.33:39-33:45Remember what the Proverbs writers say, that if you conceal your sin, you're not gonna prosper.33:46-33:48It's not gonna go well for you.33:51-33:57But if you want to confess, that's business that you have to do with Jesus.33:59-34:16Not only confessing who you are as a sinner, but confession includes saying who He is, agreeing with God who Jesus is, agreeing with God that Jesus is your advocate, agreeing with God that Jesus is your propitiation, agreeing with God about that.34:17-34:24If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.34:28-34:34So this night more than any other probably reminds us why Jesus is the only one who can take your sin away.34:35-34:36Nobody else can do that.34:38-34:46Nobody else can make you be pronounced not guilty in the courtroom of God.34:49-34:50Conceal or confess?34:52-34:59Well, if you want to confess, number three, your lifestyle proves your sincerity.35:02-35:04Your lifestyle proves your sincerity.35:05-35:07Look at verses 3 through 6 again.35:08-35:13He says, "And by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.35:15-35:20Whoever says, "I know Him," but does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him.35:21-35:27But whoever keeps His word in him, truly the love of God is perfected.35:28-35:34By this we may know that we are in Him.35:35-35:41Whoever says he abides in Him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.35:44-35:48I'm sure if the hospitality team grabbed every person on the way out, do you wanna confess?35:48-35:50I'm sure they would get 100%.35:50-35:51Yeah, I confess.35:51-35:52I can, yeah, I confess.35:58-36:02We'll find out if it's sincere by how you live, right?36:03-36:05That's why he says it in verse three.36:05-36:06He says it at the end of verse five.36:07-36:08We know that we have come to know him.36:09-36:10We know that we are saved.36:10-36:12Like what's the evidence?36:12-36:15How do I really know if I'm saved or not?36:15-36:16How would I know that?36:16-36:17He tells you right here.36:17-36:19Here's how you know that you're saved.36:19-36:20You keep his commands.36:22-36:28The proof that you know God is just simply you do what he says.36:32-36:34It's not just what you claim.36:37-36:38Are you saved?36:38-36:38You know the Lord.36:39-36:40And people say, well, you know what?36:40-36:46I was baptized 17 years ago at First Baptist Church of so-and-so.36:47-36:47Goody.36:49-36:51That's not evidence that you're saved, though.36:53-37:05Or somebody says, "Well, I go to church almost every week." I mean, not when Declan has lacrosse, but every other week I'm in church.37:05-37:06Great.37:08-37:10I strongly encourage church attendance.37:10-37:13I think that's a good thing, but that's not evidence of salvation.37:14-37:17Evidence of salvation is I do what God tells me to do.37:19-37:22It's just that simple, according to John.37:24-37:30I believe, I believe not verified by what you say, I believe is verified by how you live.37:30-37:32Are you gonna conceal or are you gonna confess tonight?37:33-37:34Which is it?37:36-37:51Because obviously, if you really agree with God that sin is evil, you're going to be constantly confessing and forsaking sin.37:55-37:57So do you live a life of confession?38:01-38:04Do you agree with God about your sin?38:06-38:19And do you agree with God concerning what He said the crucifixion of His Son accomplished for the person who will turn to Him?38:22-38:23Our worship team would make their way back up.38:26-38:54And our communion servers, we're gonna close our time around the Lord's table And you do not have to be a member of Harvard's Bible Chapel to take communion, but you do have to be a born-again believer in Christ. This is for believers.38:58-39:02And fellow Christians, it is gathering around the Lord's table.39:02-39:06Well, this is a time to confess everything.39:08-39:11Everything that John said in this passage, we get to confess that right now.39:13-39:21When we take these elements, what we're saying, what we're confessing, I confess that my sin is evil and wrong in the eyes of God.39:22-39:23I confess that.39:24-39:27I confess that Jesus Christ died for my sin.39:29-39:35I confess that God is satisfied with the work that Jesus accomplished on my behalf.39:37-39:40I confess Jesus Christ is my advocate.39:41-39:46I confess that I need His Spirit to make me who God wants me to be.39:49-40:00I confess that I will prove that I believe when I obey God in every area of my life.40:03-40:16Hebrews 4.14 says, "Since then, we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God.40:18-40:22Let us hold fast our confession.40:24-40:36We're going to ask, when you're ready, if you would come down to the center aisles and receive the elements from one of our pastors, and you can return to your seat by the outside aisle.40:37-40:49I'm going to ask that you hold on to it, and let's confess together tonight, church, that We are agreeing with God in all these things.40:52-40:54So please come, take the elements.40:56-40:57This is our confession.40:59-41:05This is our agreeing with God that Jesus is who God said He is.41:06-41:09And that Jesus accomplished what God said He accomplished.41:11-41:16The Bible tells us on the night that Jesus was betrayed, He took bread and he broke it and he gave thanks.41:17-41:20And he said, "This is my body, which is broken for you.41:21-41:45Eat this in remembrance of me." After the meal, Bible tells us that Jesus took the cup and he said, "This cup is my blood, the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for the forgiveness of sin.41:46-41:48Drink this in remembrance of me.41:50-41:51What are you doing tonight?41:54-41:56Conceal or confess?41:59-42:01Jesus has quite a resume.42:04-42:06As the prophet, he is the word of God.42:08-42:11As the priest, he takes away our sin.42:12-42:15I want to invite you to come back in two days on Sunday.42:15-42:26Pastor Taylor is going to talk about the other role that Jesus has, the King of Kings.42:27-42:28You don't want to miss that.42:30-42:31You are loved. Small Group DiscussionRead 1 John 1:5-2:6What was your big take-away from this passage / message?BreakoutPray for one another.

Introduction: 5 Reasons Pastors Should Be Paid: (1 Corinthians 9:1-14) It's COMMON Sense. (1 Cor 9:7) It's a CONCERN in the Law. (1 Cor 9:8-11) 1 Timothy 5:17-18 - Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” It's CLAIMED By Others. (1 Cor 9:12) It's a CUSTOM from the Old Testament. (1 Cor 9:13) It's COMMANDED By Jesus. (1 Cor 9:14) Luke 10:7 – for the laborer deserves his wages. Matthew 10:10 - the laborer deserves his food. Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANKHint: Highlight blanks above for answers! Audio Transcript 00:36-00:40Open up those Bibles to 1 Corinthians 9.00:44-00:52The title of today's message is, "Should Pastors Be Paid?" Yeah.00:54-00:57I'd like to invite the worship team to come back up as we close.00:58-01:00If you want to worship through giving, the offering.01:04-01:09You're like, "You better earn that pay." Fair, fair.01:09-01:12You know, I was associate pastor for 11 years.01:12-01:16And one of the things that I did was run the Wednesday night program.01:16-01:18It was pioneer clubs like Awana's.01:18-01:26But I'll never forget one girl who was lifelong member of the church from forever.01:26-01:27She the one little girl came up.01:28-01:39She goes, "Pastor Jeff, where do you work?" And I'm not gonna say her name 'cause she's an adult now and might be watching this, but I said, "Well, you know where I work.01:40-01:42"I'm one of the pastors here at the church." She just rolled her eyes.01:42-01:46She goes, "I know that, but I mean, where do you work?01:46-01:49"Like, what's your job?01:49-02:02"Like, what do you do to get paid?" I'm like, "You know, just when you start "to feel pretty good about yourself." Along comes some kid to bring you right back down to earth, right?02:03-02:03Where do you work?02:07-02:09Many people hold that opinion, right?02:10-02:12I mean, being a pastor isn't really work.02:15-02:19You know, my favorite, you only work for one hour a week.02:23-02:24And you know what?02:24-02:25I've heard that so many times.02:25-02:27I'm quick to correct people on that.02:28-02:28I'm like, "No.02:31-02:32I don't work the whole hour.02:34-02:36My part's only like 35 minutes.02:37-02:43I work 35 minutes a week." So should pastors be paid?02:44-02:47When you bring it up, people get weird.02:48-02:49People get weird.02:49-02:51Everybody's evaluating the pastor's car.02:53-02:55Everybody's evaluating the pastor's house.02:55-02:58Everybody's evaluating the pastor's clothes.02:59-03:00How much is he making?03:03-03:05You know nobody does that for other professions, right?03:08-03:18Like for example, if somebody here is a nurse and you pull up to church driving a Boxter, what are people gonna say?03:18-03:20"Good for her, good for her.03:21-03:23Wow, I am so happy for her.03:26-03:31If I drove up driving a Porsche, what are people gonna say?03:35-03:36How much is he making?03:40-03:49I've heard a lot of things over the years, statements people have made, their little evaluations on how pastors should be paid.03:49-03:51I just want to share a couple with you.03:51-03:53Just this is, these amuse me.03:54-03:57But one person told me this regarding how a pastor should be paid.03:58-04:10He said, "A pastor shouldn't make more "than the lowest paid congregant." So we should find out who in the church makes the least and that should determine the pastor's salary.04:13-04:17Because after all, the pastor shouldn't make more than anybody else in the church.04:19-04:20I had one guy tell me this.04:21-04:31He goes, "I have a real problem "with preachers getting paid by the church." And I said, "What's the issue with that?" He goes, "Think about it this way.04:33-04:35"You teach tithing, right?04:35-04:55"10%." I'm like, "I'm following you." He goes, "Okay, so if 10 people give 10%, "now automatically the pastor's making "more than everybody in the church." And I'm like, you're gonna have to back up here 'cause you lost me somewhere on that math.04:57-04:58I mean, does that math work out?05:01-05:02Should pastors be paid?05:04-05:05Awkward.05:05-05:07Right, it's an awkward subject.05:07-05:10Can we just get that under, it's an awkward subject to stand up and preach about.05:10-05:11You're like, well then why are you?05:12-05:17Because we're going through the book of 1 Corinthians and guess what the subject is of this next section that we are going in?05:18-05:24"Should pastors be paid?" Yeah, it's going to be awkward to talk about, but you don't be more awkward than that, skipping it.05:26-05:26Right?05:26-05:29Because didn't God put it in His Word for a reason?05:30-05:31And we don't skip anything here.05:32-05:33So we're going after it.05:34-05:35We're just going to go after it.05:35-05:36Should pastors be paid?05:37-05:39The Bible is clear, yes.05:41-05:50But some ministers, you know, they live lavishly, and they demand that the church pay for the their extravagant lifestyle, and that is wrong.05:52-05:59But we can't just disregard what the Bible says just because some people have abused the privilege.06:02-06:06This section here, we're in 1 Corinthians, it's about liberty.06:08-06:21You're like, "Well, what is liberty?" It's this, you know, to be saved means that you have to turn from your sin and receive Jesus Christ.06:21-06:34And when you receive Him, you believe that Jesus died for your sin, when you believe that Jesus resurrected from the dead, when you believe that, the Bible says you are adopted as a child of God.06:34-06:36And nothing can change that.06:37-06:40Nothing can separate you from the love of God in Jesus Christ.06:41-06:41Nothing.06:42-06:46When you are saved, you are saved as a gift of God's grace.06:47-06:48Nothing can change that.06:51-06:54So understand your salvation is not performance-based.06:56-06:58So that means there's nothing you can do.06:58-07:01If you're saved, there's nothing you can do that would disqualify you from being a child of God.07:01-07:02It's not performance-based.07:04-07:12So the extreme view of that is, well, if it's not performance-based, I'm free to do whatever I want.07:15-07:16And that's what we're looking at in this section.07:17-07:19Am I free to do whatever I want?07:19-07:38Their particular issue, we talked about this last week, was they were, some of the more mature Christians were eating meat that was sacrificed to idols, and they were like, "A burger's a burger." But it bothered some of the weaker Christians who came out of the pagan background and said, You don't want to touch meat that was used in pagan worship.07:39-07:46And Paul says, "Love says, 'I will give up my rights if it keeps a brother from stumbling.'" I'll give up my rights.07:49-08:02So understand here in this section that we're looking at today, Paul is saying, "Corinthians, I'm not asking you to do anything that I'm not willing to do.08:05-08:10Paul is saying here in this section we're looking at, I am laying down a freedom that I have.08:10-08:13I have the freedom to get paid by the church.08:13-08:15And Paul says, I laid that freedom down.08:17-08:23We're going to talk more about that part of it next week, but why would Paul lay that freedom down?08:23-08:25He knew it would bring offense.08:27-08:31You see, he knew that there were going to be some people that thought, "Oh, look at this guy.08:31-08:35There's this new religion and he's using it to cash in.08:35-08:36He's using it just to make money.08:37-08:40He's trying to rip you off." So Paul got a job making tents.08:40-09:03So he's like, "I'm not going to be a financial burden to anybody because I don't want anybody to think that I have an ulterior motive in preaching the gospel." So chapter 9, the section we're looking at today illustrates this whole giving up my liberty issue. I have the freedom to not use my freedom.09:05-09:18All right, let's bow. I'm going to ask you to pray for me to be faithful to communicate God's Word, and I will pray for you to have a heart open to receive it, and then we'll go right after it. Let's just take a moment and pray.09:22-09:23by your name and your word, Father.09:26-09:30We ask you in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior forever.09:31-09:35And all of God's people said, amen.09:36-09:42All right, so the Corinthians are like, hey, we are free in Christ to do what we want.09:42-09:44Look at chapter nine, verse one.09:45-09:46Paul says, am I not free?09:48-09:49Am I not an apostle?09:51-09:52Paul's like, "I'm free.09:53-09:55"I'm free to, you know about your freedom?09:55-10:08"I'm free too." And Paul says, "By the way, I'm not just a pew sitter." Okay, he's like, "I'm an apostle." And as always, when the issue comes up, you're going to have a group of people that were like, "Are you, Paul?10:08-10:09"Are you really an apostle?10:09-10:13"Are you really?" Oh, look at what he says.10:15-10:18"Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?10:18-10:25"Are not you my workmanship in the Lord?" Paul was always defending himself.10:25-10:27And right here he goes, "Yeah, I am an apostle.10:27-10:28"I'll give you two proofs.10:28-10:30"One is the big one.10:30-10:37"To be an apostle, you had to have seen "the resurrected Jesus Christ." And Paul's like, "I've seen him." Like, did Paul see Jesus?10:37-10:39Yeah, at least three times.10:39-10:42Oh, by the way, one of those times was actually in Corinth.10:42-10:43What's that, Acts chapter 18?10:46-10:56Paul says, "I have another proof." He goes, "You want another proof of my apostleship?" He goes, "You, you are my proof." What do you mean by that?10:56-10:57Look at verses two and three.10:58-11:07He says, "If to others I am not an apostle, "at least I am to you, "for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.11:08-11:30"This is my defense to those who would examine me." Paul says, "Some might not believe that I'm apostle, but you cannot deny the way that the Lord has worked through me to you." He says, "You're my seal." See, in those days, if somebody wanted to authenticate a letter, they would put a wax seal with the signet ring.11:31-11:32That was to say, "This is genuine.11:32-11:35This is real." Paul goes, "You want to know that I'm real?11:35-11:48Do you want to know that I'm authentic?" He goes, "You're my proof, because God has ministered the gospel through me to you." These are the evidences that I'm an apostle.11:48-11:53So, verse 4, do we not have the right to eat and drink?11:55-11:57That's obviously sarcasm.11:58-12:03I was like, "Yeah, I'm an apostle and God has used me, so I'm not allowed to eat?" Is that what you're saying?12:06-12:10I've been faithful to your souls, I've been faithful to the Lord, but I don't get to eat?12:11-12:20He's saying, "I don't get to… are you saying that I don't get to earn a living from the work that I do in the Lord?" Look at verse 5.12:24-12:32He says, "Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?12:34-12:39Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?12:41-12:49Paul's like, "Other ministers are supported." So much so that other ministers actually take their wives along with them.12:50-12:52So you support them.12:56-12:57What about me?12:57-13:00Do I have the right to be supported by the church?13:01-13:03See what Paul's doing here.13:03-13:06in this little introduction, he's setting this all up.13:07-13:19He goes, "This freedom that I am laying down, is it actually a freedom that I have?" As we look at verses 7-14, Paul here is establishing that this is a right.13:19-13:21This is legitimate.13:21-13:25Ministers have the right to be supported by the church.13:25-13:26He's proving that in this section.13:29-13:35And in Paul's day, as in ours, there are people that are going to doubt the premise.13:36-13:38Like, really, should ministers be paid?13:38-13:38Really?13:39-13:40Not sure about that.13:40-13:41Should they, is it really work?13:42-13:4635 minutes, rather, 35 minutes a week, is that really work?13:47-13:48Should we be paying you for that?13:52-13:56Well, Paul gives five reasons why you should pay the pastor.13:57-13:57All right?13:59-14:00"Jot these down.14:00-14:08By the way, you're paying me overtime this week 'cause I spent some extra time making sure these were alliterated.14:09-14:12I don't always do that, but when I do, I charge extra.14:13-14:23And I charge by the word, that's why the sermons are so long." So five reasons a pastor should be paid.14:23-14:24Number one, I love this.14:24-14:26He just knocks this one right out.14:26-14:26It's common sense.14:27-14:28It's common sense.14:28-14:30Look at verse 7.14:32-14:36Paul says, "Who serves as a soldier at his own expense?14:38-14:40Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit?14:41-14:48Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?" Obvious point, right?14:49-14:52A man earns his living by his work.14:53-14:55And he gives three examples.14:56-15:00A soldier, a farmer, and a shepherd.15:03-15:09Imagine as Paul calls us to here, imagine doing those jobs at your own expense.15:10-15:11Imagine that.15:11-15:13That's ludicrous, right?15:14-15:14Like what do you do?15:14-15:15I work at Target.15:17-15:17Why do you work at Target?15:18-15:25"Well, just trying to pay the bills so in my free time I can be in the army." Like what?15:26-15:27Paul's like, "Who does that?15:28-15:36That's called a hobby if you're doing it without being compensated.15:36-15:41Their families are fed from the work that they do." So it should be true for pastors.15:41-15:42It's common sense.15:43-15:47should earn from the work that they do.15:50-15:55And I have to add, church, that this is also extremely practical when you think about it.15:55-15:57The church benefits from a focused pastor.16:00-16:05You're going to get your best work from the pastor if he's not distracted.16:06-16:07I mean, think about it.16:07-16:43If the pastor has to provide for his family by working another job, how much gas is left tank to be a pastor. And you're like, "Eh, doesn't look that hard." Well, I want you to think about your job, whatever you do. You're nine to five, whether you work in a bank, work in HVAC, community, you know, some kind of like social service function, think Think of what you do.16:44-16:52When your shift ends, do you feel like you would be able to effectively pastor a church on top of that?16:55-16:59Again, I don't care if you're with the police, a computer programmer.17:00-17:05Imagine working all day doing that, and then you get home and now you've got to write a sermon.17:06-17:07Oh, and you have two counseling appointments.17:07-17:09And make sure you squeeze time in.17:09-17:17you've got to follow up with these new people at church, oh, and then you have a ministry team meeting on top of that.17:17-17:21Are you really going to do all of that on top of your nine to five?17:24-17:25It's common sense.17:26-17:33You see, if a pastor has to work another job, it's easy for him to phone it in when it comes to the church work, right?17:33-17:37Well, I've got to work at Target so that I can pay my bills.17:38-17:39the church stuff is just going to have to wait.17:39-17:42I sure hope they're not expecting a decent sermon this week.17:44-17:45It's just common sense.17:45-17:47People should get wages.17:49-17:52People should benefit from their workplace.17:52-17:53That's where he starts.17:54-17:55It's common sense.17:55-17:58Number two, five reasons pastors should be paid.17:58-18:02Five reasons Paul says this is a right for pastors to be paid.18:02-18:05Number two is it's a concern in the law.18:05-18:06It's a concern in the law.18:09-18:10Like, what do you mean?18:10-18:11Well, look at verse eight.18:12-18:17Paul says, "Do I say these things on human authority?" Like, you think I'm making this up?18:19-18:22He says, "Does not the law say the same?18:23-18:37"For it is written in the law of Moses, "you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain." That's Deuteronomy 25 verse 4.18:38-18:43Like, what do you mean an ox treading out the grain?18:43-18:47It was actually an Egyptian trick that Israel adopted.18:49-19:01They would tie a big round flat stone to an ox, and they would have the ox drag the stone over the wheat to crush it to remove the husk.19:03-19:13Okay, so you have this ox helping you prepare food, doing this hard work of dragging a stone.19:13-19:19Now how cruel would it be to put a muzzle on the ox while he's doing that?19:19-19:22Like you have to drag the stone, but you're not allowed to eat.19:23-19:27Oh, you're going to stand on top of food all day, but you're not allowed to take a bite.19:28-19:28That's inhumane.19:36-19:37That's the point.19:39-19:41Look at verse 9, second part.19:44-19:56He says, "Is it for oxen that God is concerned?" Does He not speak entirely for our sake?19:57-20:15It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope, and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop." See Paul's point, you know, the whole don't muzzle an ox while it's treading out the grain.20:15-20:27Paul's like, "You think God's concerned about the ox?" Look, I don't think God has anything against ox, oxen, oxes, oxen, oxen.20:27-20:28Thank you, Randy.20:28-20:28Oxen.20:28-20:31I don't think God's against oxen.20:31-20:32He created them.20:32-20:33I think God loves oxen.20:34-20:42Paul's like, "Do you think he wrote that in the law for the oxen who are going to be reading the law?" Like, "Hey, wait a second.20:43-20:48You're not supposed to muzzle me while I'm working." I think he didn't write that for the oxen.20:50-20:51But don't do it now.20:51-20:52You can do it later.20:53-20:56You get some time, turn back to that reference in Deuteronomy.20:56-21:01And you're going to see that section of Deuteronomy has nothing to do with animals.21:02-21:05Nothing to do with how to treat the livestock.21:05-21:06It has nothing to do with that.21:07-21:12It has everything to do with people.21:12-21:13And how you treat people.21:15-21:17You see, it's a figure of speech.21:17-21:21We use animals in figures of speech all the time, don't we?21:22-21:25Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, two birds with one stone, all of that.21:25-21:26It was a figure of speech.21:28-21:36And Paul reminds us here, look, when God wrote that through Moses, He wasn't really concerned about the oxen, He was concerned about man.21:38-21:44And the point of that expression is the worker deserves to benefit from his work, obviously, right?21:45-22:02Luke 11, he says, "If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?" Sown spiritual things.22:05-22:09That's all I'm trying to do for this church.22:10-22:13There are many people in this church that I have led to Christ.22:16-22:23There's many people in this church that I've not only taught the Bible, but I've taught how to teach the Bible.22:25-22:35There are people in this church that I have counseled out of disaster, comforted you and your family at funerals.22:36-22:37I married a lot of people here.22:39-22:45I've come along leaders to try to encourage them in their particular ministries.22:46-22:57None of this is meant to be boastful or "Hey, look at me." I'm just saying objectively, this is what I'm striving to do among you.22:59-23:01So is it out of line to support me in doing those things?23:03-23:05Am I asking too much?23:07-23:10Or do you see no value in anything that I do?23:12-23:16Now look, I am so thankful.23:16-23:18This church has always supported me and my family.23:20-23:24And I am so thankful to God for you and your support.23:27-23:34It would absolutely grieve me though if you thought that I wasn't worth it.23:35-23:43Like, yeah, we'll support him, but I mean, does he really bring something to the table?23:48-23:57Some churches, well, they do justify no pay or meager pay for the pastors.23:58-23:59Some churches justify that.23:59-24:01You can't pay the pastor very much.24:01-24:01Why?24:02-24:04Gotta keep 'em humble, right Pastor Taylor?24:06-24:07Gotta keep 'em humble.24:07-24:11Pastor Taylor gets paid two Kit Kats a week, that's all he gets from the church.24:12-24:14Because we're gonna keep 'em humble.24:16-24:18We don't want 'em to get swollen head.24:19-24:21So we gotta keep 'em humble.24:21-24:30Listen, that is an unbiblical mindset, completely backwards to what the Bible says about the way you treat your pastor.24:31-24:32Right?24:34-24:371 Timothy 5, look what Paul told Timothy.24:38-24:50He says, "Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching." You know what he means by double honor?24:51-24:55He doesn't mean like, thank you, thank you.24:58-24:58Great job, great job.24:58-24:59That's not what he means at all.25:00-25:02You look at the context, he's talking about pay.25:04-25:07He's saying you should double my pay.25:09-25:11You get the point there, right?25:12-25:14Not keep them humble.25:14-25:17He's like, those who preach the word of God deserve double honor.25:18-25:24He says, for the scripture says, you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.25:25-25:29and the laborer deserves his wages.25:33-25:37And right now some Bible scholar is like, oh, okay, don't muzzle the ox.25:38-25:40Okay, Pastor Jeff, that's Old Testament.25:40-25:42We don't live under the Old Testament.25:45-25:52Well, we abide under the principles of the law, especially when they're repeated in the New Testament.25:53-25:53All right?25:54-25:55The five reasons pastors should be paid.25:56-25:58Paul says it's common sense.25:58-25:59It's a concern in the law.25:59-26:01Number three, write this down, it's claimed by others.26:02-26:04It's claimed by others.26:07-26:21Verse 12, he says, "If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?" Paul's like, "Oh, by the way, it's not weird or unusual.26:23-26:25In fact, there's precedent for it.26:27-26:27Right?26:28-26:30Many of you do support others.26:31-26:39And you should, but there's many people here that you're like, I support certain missionaries or I support world vision, or I support Samaritan's Purse.26:39-26:41I support all these people.26:41-26:46And Paul here is just simply saying, hey, what about the shepherd who has devoted his life to caring for you?26:47-26:47What about that guy?26:48-26:49Should he be paid?26:49-26:50Should he be supported?26:53-27:03And my whole life revolves around caring for you, praying for you, discipling you.27:06-27:15And some people are like, "Well, you know, I listen to such and such preacher on the Facebooks or the YouTubes or whatever.27:15-27:22I listen to Jack Hibbs, so my tithe goes to Jack Hibbs." Okay.27:28-27:32But when you need counseling, do you think Jack Hibbs is going to come and counsel you?27:34-27:39You know, if you have a tragedy, do you think Jack Hibbs is going to be at your house to pray for you, pray with you?27:42-27:43Does Jack Hibbs even know who you are?27:46-27:46That's Paul's point here.27:47-27:49Paul's like, "Others share the rightful claim.27:49-28:12"You support others." Paul's like, "How can you not support the one who loves you?" He goes on in verse 12, he goes, "Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, "but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle "in the way of the gospel of Christ." That's the whole point of broaching the subject.28:13-28:25We have the freedom to get paid, but Paul says, "I laid that freedom down." Just as I'm telling you to do about eating the meat sacrifice to the idols, it's okay.28:25-28:28It's okay to lay your freedom down sometimes.28:30-28:32We're going to get into that more next week.28:33-28:36This week though, he's giving us five reasons a preacher should be paid.28:36-28:39And here's number four, it's a custom from the Old Testament.28:40-28:46It's common sense, it's a concern in the law, it's claimed by others, and it's a custom from the Old Testament.28:47-28:48Look at verse 13.28:49-29:03He says, "Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings.29:06-29:09Do a little study sometime, Old Testament law.29:09-29:16In the Old Testament, priests were supported for their work by their work.29:18-29:26All of the sacrifices that were given under Old Testament law realized the priest received a portion of what was offered in some way, shape, or form.29:26-29:27That's what Paul's talking about here.29:31-29:41And I was studying this this week, and I'm like, why did he sort of, he kind of said that in verse seven, right?29:42-29:43The same thing.29:43-29:46So why did he bring this up again?29:46-29:47And then it hit me.29:50-29:54Verse seven, he gave secular examples.29:56-29:57You know, the soldier, the farmer, the shepherd.29:57-29:59He gave secular examples.29:59-30:23And there are some in the church that would say, "Okay, Paul, you're using secular reasoning and you're trying to apply it to the spiritual realm." And I think what Paul's doing here is saying, "Look, yes, this principle, you should be supported for the work that you do, by your work." It's true in the secular world and it's true in the sacred world too.30:23-30:25So Paul's like, "Don't act like this is a new thing.30:26-30:31supporting the spiritual leaders, because it's a custom that goes way back to the Old Testament.30:35-30:40Number five, five reasons pastors should be paid.30:41-30:45It's common sense, it's a concern in the law, it's claimed by others, it's a custom from the Old Testament.30:46-30:57Last and probably most important, I would say, I think that's why it's last, it's commanded by Jesus.31:00-31:01It's commanded by Jesus.31:02-31:17Look at verse 14, "In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel." Wait a minute, when did Jesus say that?31:18-31:20Well, He said that a couple of times.31:21-31:34In Luke chapter 10, Jesus was sending out the 72 and He was talking about, you can look this up later, the people that believe you should be the ones that feed you.31:34-31:41So Jesus in sending them out said, "For the laborer deserves his wages." What's the context of that?31:42-32:06And again in Matthew 10, verse 10, Jesus was sending out the twelve, and He says, "The people that believe you should be the people who support you." And that's why He said, "The laborer deserves his food." In both cases, Jesus was saying those who preach the gospel must be supported by those who believe the gospel.32:07-32:14In other words, believers, we could say church members, should financially support their leaders.32:17-32:23If you're a guest here today, I want you to understand you're under no obligation to give.32:24-32:29Don't feel guilty or like, "Well, I probably should." If you're a guest, be our guest.32:31-32:32There's zero obligation.32:35-32:37is something that we are to share as a church family.32:39-32:39All right?32:43-32:45But nevertheless, the Lord commanded it.32:46-32:48Those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.32:50-33:01So Paul, in this whole section, is saying as a minister of the gospel, I have every right to expect you to support me, but I laid that right down.33:03-33:19I thought it might be an obstacle to the work, so because I love you, I didn't take financial support from you." Paul's like, "I'm trying to show you something, that when you love, you're willing to lay down your rights.33:21-33:56When you love, you're willing to lay down your freedoms." Paul is just simply saying, as we'll see next week, "Follow my example." Right now you're like, "Okay, pay the pastor, fine." Well my hope is not that you reluctantly get on board with giving, but I want you to see the bigger picture of why you give.33:57-34:00Yes, giving primarily is an act of worship.34:00-34:01We've had a whole sermon series about that.34:02-34:03Giving is an act of worship.34:04-34:08But also I want you to think about the tangible effects of giving.34:11-34:14When you give, my family is supported.34:16-34:22And that frees me from trying to do ministry on top of a nine to five job.34:22-34:25It lets me stay focused on caring for you.34:25-34:35Understand that when you give, look at the big picture, you're freeing me up so that I can care for everybody in this church to the best of my ability.34:39-34:39Everyone benefits.34:41-34:44When you give, other staff are paid.34:44-34:47That allows us to worship in excellent music.34:48-35:07It helps us disciple your children and young adults to minister on a personal level through the oversight of our entire small group ministry and so many more things that are able to happen that couldn't happen if you weren't financially supporting the leadership of the church.35:09-35:15Oh, oh, oh, and when you give, understand that you're supporting a whole network of ministers in Thailand.35:17-35:30Do you know in northern Thailand and beyond, we have 23 churches, we have four children's homes, we have a Bible institute, and do you know how many people stateside support them?35:33-35:34Just this church.35:35-35:49You, when you give, you are allowing the work of evangelism happen all over that area of the world through our network of churches.35:52-35:55Disciples are made all over Northern Thailand and beyond.35:57-36:08When you give, that is your way of actively partnering with me in advancing the kingdom of Jesus Christ.36:10-36:12I'd like you to bow your heads as the worship team makes their way up.36:16-36:29Father in heaven, it felt awkward to have to give a message like this, but God, it's your word.36:29-36:30We don't skip anything.36:32-36:34We just want to go after what you said.36:35-36:46Father, I thank you for the way that this church has always sought to support me and my family.36:48-36:53Financially sure, but so many other ways this church has sought to bless and protect my family.36:54-36:55God, I thank you so much for these people.36:56-36:58This is from you, God, and I thank you for that.36:59-37:11I just pray, Father, that looking at a passage like this, you would give us sort of a bigger picture of the way your economy works and why you have called us to certain things that you've called us to.37:15-37:24God, we believe that all things are yours, and we believe, God, that you have called us to be faithful stewards with everything that you give us.37:27-37:32We thank you for the privilege and all the ways that you've called us to partner with you in the work of the ministry.37:33-37:38Thank You, Father, for the spirit of generosity that You have stirred among Your people here.37:39-37:47And as King David prayed in preparation for the temple, might that spirit always be found in Your people.37:48-37:50We pray in Jesus' name, amen. Small Group DiscussionRead 1 Corinthians 9:1-14What was your big take-away from this passage / message?Explain why Paul broaches the subject of paying the pastor in the first place. What does that have to do with their question about Christian liberty?What are some practical benefits that come when a pastor doesn't have to work outside the church?How would you respond to someone who says, “Pastors should have a job like everyone else! It's not fair that the pastor has money when some people in the congregation are struggling financially.”BreakoutPray for one another.

Introduction: Three Valid Reasons for Liberty (that Don't Work When You Have a Weaker Brother). (1 Corinthians 8:1-13) I Have KNOWLEDGE. (1 Cor 8:1-3) Philippians 1:9 – And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment I Have WISDOM. (1 Cor 8:4-7) I Have GOOD THEOLOGY. (1 Cor 8:8-13) Matthew 18:6 - whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. Matthew 25:40 - Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me. Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANKHint: Highlight blanks above for answers! AUDIO TRANSCRIPT 00:36-00:39Open up those Bibles to 1 Corinthians 8.00:41-00:49Oh, that sweet, sweet, quiet lull of early service on Daylight Saving Sunday.00:51-00:52So tranquil.00:54-00:55Let's kick that up, shall we?00:55-00:56Let's have a fight.00:58-01:01Amen, somebody came ready to rumble.01:04-01:06Not like a fist fight.01:07-01:09Let's just have a good old fashioned argument.01:10-01:12All right, that'll get the blood boiling.01:13-01:15All in favor of having an argument?01:16-01:16Some of you.01:17-01:18(congregation laughing)01:19-01:20Little too eager.01:21-01:22All right, here we go.01:23-01:24Is a hot dog a sandwich?01:27-01:29Oh, did you hear that Pastor Taylor?01:30-01:31Apparently we struck a nerve.01:32-01:34Show of hands, how many people say that a hot dog is a sandwich?01:35-01:36Okay.01:37-01:39Some of you, okay, how many people insist that it's not?01:41-01:41Whoa.01:43-01:46Whoa, you might wanna pump the brakes on that.01:46-01:49I mean, what, it's like meat and condiments in bread, right?01:51-01:53Isn't that the very definition of a sandwich?01:54-01:57And you're like, well, but it's shaped different.01:58-01:59Well, I'm shaped different.01:59-02:00Does that mean I'm not a human?02:00-02:01Like, come on, what's that?02:05-02:07Some of you are a little too emotional about that.02:09-02:10It's silly though, right?02:10-02:14We're not really going to fight about that.02:16-02:24But when we get to this next section in 1 Corinthians, believe it or not, and you will, it was a food controversy.02:25-02:26That's what's going on.02:26-02:31They had a food controversy, but it wasn't about hot dogs.02:33-02:40It was about something that was much bigger problem for the church.02:41-02:44All right, let's just stop for a minute.02:44-02:51This is a challenging text, but we are going to get through it together.02:52-02:55I'm gonna ask you to pray for me, and I will pray for you.02:56-02:58Let's see what the Lord has to teach us today in His Word.02:58-03:01All right, let's just take a moment and pray.03:09-03:11Father, fire us up to receive your Word.03:13-03:17We don't wanna go into a lull because we lost an hour of sleep or whatever.03:17-03:23God, this is your Word, and we should be excited to see what it is that you have told us in your Word.03:26-03:30and we should be looking to see how we can reflect the truth of your word in our lives.03:30-03:46So God, give us the faith to really believe what you said to the point that it takes root, to the point that it's manifest in our hearts, in our minds, in our attitudes, and ultimately in our conduct.03:47-03:57We pray all of this in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, and all of God's people said, Amen, amen.03:57-04:03In this section in 1 Corinthians, it's kind of like a big Q&A session, right?04:03-04:05And look at chapter eight, verse one.04:06-04:07Do you see the first two words in your Bible?04:08-04:13He says, in this chapter, he says, "Now concerning." We talked about that, right?04:13-04:17It seems to be like, okay, next subject, right?04:17-04:20That's his clue that we're moving on to a new subject.04:21-04:46And the next topic that again is going to span next three chapters is Christian liberty. Just in case we didn't offend anybody with the last part of it, let's talk about liberty, shall we? Am I free to do whatever I want? I'm free in Christ! I can do whatever I want to do, right? Right?04:46-04:46Right?04:46-04:46Right?04:50-04:53Oh, legalism versus liberty.04:54-04:58It's the issue literally as old as the church herself.05:01-05:02Legalism.05:04-05:05That's one side.05:05-05:06Legalism.05:06-05:11The people that are legalists say to be accepted by God, here's some things you can't do.05:11-05:13Here's your list of things that you cannot do.05:14-05:16And if you keep the list, you're accepted by God.05:17-05:19That's the legalist likes the rules.05:19-05:24But on the other hand, you have the liberty people.05:26-05:28The liberty people say, "Hey, I'm saved by grace.05:28-05:30My performance doesn't matter.05:30-05:35Nothing can change the fact that I'm saved by grace and I can do whatever I want to do.05:36-05:38Nothing will separate me from the love of Christ.05:38-05:55I am free to do whatever I want to do." Well their particular liberty issue that became a problem for the church is what Paul is addressing in chapter 8, 9, and through 10.05:57-05:57Here's their issue.05:59-06:01Look again, chapter 8, verse 1.06:01-06:15He said, "Now concerning food offered to idols." That's meat that was sacrificed to a pagan God.06:17-06:19Like what in the world is going on here?06:21-06:24Understand in the Greek culture, they had gods for everything.06:25-06:29It was part of every aspect of life.06:30-06:33There was a God for literally everything.06:37-06:48And when a pagan worshiper would offer a sacrifice to a God, that sacrifice was divided into three parts.06:49-06:59Part was burned for the pagan God, part went home with the worshiper, but then the third part went with the priest.07:00-07:02The pagan priest, right?07:04-07:05How much pot roast can you eat?07:06-07:11Okay, so you can imagine, these priests, they had an abundance.07:11-07:14So they would take the extra down and sell it at the market.07:17-07:29There was other pagan meat at the market as well, because in the Greek culture, they believed that an evil spirit could enter you through what you ate.07:29-07:31So they believed that an evil spirit could get in the meat.07:31-07:34And when you ate the meat, now you had the evil spirit inside you.07:35-07:41So they would sacrifice to a God who would make sure that there were no evil spirits in the meat.07:41-07:53And on top of that, because it was such a pagan culture, the temple was sort of the community center, meaning weddings and parties were commonly held at the temple.07:53-07:55You're gonna see that come up here in this text.07:55-08:04And here's the point, my friends, Almost all the meat in this culture was used for pagan worship somehow.08:05-08:06Almost all of it.08:10-08:11So maybe you begin to see the problem.08:13-08:19For the church, for the Christians, for the Jesus followers, there was division.08:20-08:27For some, they were like, "Should we eat the pagan meat?" Absolutely not.08:27-08:28I'm not touching that.08:29-08:32They use that meat in pagan worship.08:32-08:34I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole.08:35-08:37No way am I touching that.08:39-08:46And then there were more mature believers that were like, a hamburger is a hamburger, bro.08:48-08:50The boogeyman doesn't live in the hamburger.08:51-08:52Just eat it.08:52-08:52Come on.08:55-08:57Can you see why that would be a problem in the church?09:00-09:16People saying, "Eat the meat." People saying, "Absolutely, you shouldn't go near it." So in chapter eight here, and we're gonna be looking at the whole chapter, Paul is addressing the mature Christians who insisted on their liberty.09:19-09:26These mature Christians who said, "Hey, it bothers some of the weaker Christians that we eat the meat, but look, I'm free in Christ.09:27-09:28It's not haunted meat.09:28-09:31Am I not free to eat the meat if I want to eat the meat?09:38-09:44I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and guess that this probably isn't an issue for this church.09:45-09:46Right?09:48-09:58I don't imagine you've had to sit down at the table debate whether or not the boogeyman was in the steak, if you should eat it or not.10:02-10:06But you know there's always been issues of legalism and liberty in the church.10:07-10:25Always. Always. Okay so we're not arguing about the pagan meat, but I mean look at look at church history. We have this, even very recently, we are constantly At odds trying to figure out some things.10:26-10:28Issues of legalism versus liberty.10:30-10:32Like things like playing cards.10:34-10:39I know young people that might be hard to believe, but there was a time that that was a big issue in the church.10:39-10:41Should you be allowed to play cards?10:43-10:50Things like dancing, movies, hairstyle, dress.10:50-10:50Yes.10:53-10:55Things you can do on Sunday.10:57-10:59You can't go to a restaurant 'cause you're making people work.10:59-11:00You can't wash your car on Sunday.11:00-11:01That's considered work.11:02-11:05And you're breaking the Sabbath and there's so much wrong with that thinking.11:05-11:06But it's an issue.11:07-11:08It's an issue.11:09-11:11Things like yoga.11:16-11:20Last and certainly my favorite, Trick or treat.11:26-11:27I hate Halloween.11:29-11:32Not because you dress up like Spider-Man and get a Kit Kat.11:32-11:33I think that's kind of cool.11:34-11:42But just what it does in the church, because you have people that are like, it's fun, let's let them dress up and get candy and see the neighbors.11:42-11:45And then you have people that are like, it's demonic.11:46-11:49And like, I don't know what to do.11:51-11:53That's kind of the flavor of what we're getting here.11:55-11:56See, all these things are gray areas.11:56-12:04There's nothing explicit in the Bible that we can point to where the Bible says, do not do this, do not go trick or treating, do not dance.12:05-12:09Yet we can't find verses in the Bible that explicitly say.12:09-12:12So what do we do with these gray areas?12:12-12:18And the liberty person would say, I'm free to do whatever I want to do.12:19-12:20'Cause I'm free in Christ.12:20-12:22I'm free in Christ, man.12:22-12:24I can do whatever I want, right?12:27-12:28No.12:29-12:37No, not if doing one of these gray area things could cause a brother to sin.12:40-13:34So Paul addressing their issue with the meat gives us principles that apply for all times even until today. I want you to think about this scenario as we go through this passage because here's a real-life scenario that could happen to you where you need to apply these principles, this could happen to you this week. Just imagine the issue of alcohol. First of all, are you free to drink alcohol? Well, the Bible warns about drunkenness, but yes, the Bible does not say, "Thou shalt not ever touch alcohol." Okay? So yes, technically you are free, you are free to drink alcohol.13:37-13:42If you're of age and avoid drunkenness and all that, sure, sure, sure.13:43-13:50Okay, but imagine this scenario, a man who recently comes to harvest decides he wants to go to your small group.13:52-13:55But this man is coming out of an addicted background.13:57-14:00He had a really bad problem with alcohol, he went to rehab.14:02-14:05And this man ends up coming to know Christ.14:05-14:06He's born again.14:06-14:08He received Jesus as his Lord and Savior.14:08-14:10He's been transformed.14:10-14:14And now this man hates how alcohol has wrecked his life.14:16-14:21And this man sees alcohol a whole lot different than you or I might look at alcohol.14:23-14:34All right, so that guy says, "Pastor Taylor, I want to get involved in one of your small groups." And Pastor Taylor gets the guy coming to your small group.14:35-14:43And this week, you're having a barbecue at your small group because the weather is oh so great as it has been.14:45-14:53And as a small group leader, you're wondering, "Well, can I have beer at our small group barbecue?14:58-14:58Can I?15:01-15:46We have alcohol at a church event?" And you're like, "Okay, well this guy's coming and Pastor Taylor sort of told me this man's background and I know that if we have alcohol at our barbecue, it's going to bother that guy. I know that, but I'm free. I'm free to drink it. Why is his problem my problem? Should I still have it even though this guy's coming? I mean, I can have it, so let's just go ahead and have it and he can figure that out, right? Well, that was the Corinthian dilemma. Some mature believers were eating the meat regardless of how it affected the weaker believers.15:47-15:53And I'm glad you're sitting down because you're going to be shocked that this resulted in more disunity problems for Corinth.15:55-15:57Those people fought about everything.15:59-16:00And here's another issue.16:03-16:12So on your outline, listen very closely to this next sentence because you have to understand the angle at which Paul's going after them.16:13-16:26Paul, in 1 Corinthians 8, is going after the three reasons that the mature believers were using to justify eating the pagan meat.16:29-16:33It's okay for us to eat it, and here's why it's okay for us to eat it.16:33-16:39Paul goes after those reasons, and they're the same reasons we use today.16:41-16:55And interestingly enough, Paul agrees with them, but he shows them why their reasons for eating the meat, their reasons for liberty, do not apply in light of how it's going to affect a weaker believer.16:57-16:58All right?16:59-17:03That's why the heading on your outline, it's a big one.17:04-17:10Three valid reasons for liberty that don't work when you have a weaker brother.17:12-17:17All of these are legit reasons for liberty, but they do not work when you have a weaker brother.17:18-17:18Y'all with me?17:19-17:20I can start over.17:21-17:22It's a hot dog and sandwich.17:25-17:28Three valid reasons for liberty that do not work when you have a weaker brother.17:29-17:31Here's the first one, number one, write this down.17:31-17:32I have knowledge.17:33-17:34I have knowledge.17:34-17:36I know some stuff.17:37-17:38I know, okay.17:40-17:40Back to verse one.17:40-17:50"Now concerning food offered to idols, we know that all of us possess knowledge." Stop there.17:52-17:57You see, they were saying, Look, I know I can eat the meat sacrificed to the...17:57-17:58I can do that because I know, I know.17:59-18:01I know what the Bible says about food, okay?18:01-18:05And Peter had that vision, Acts 10, the sheath, everything's clean.18:06-18:09I know about that, I know, I know, I know.18:09-18:11And look, meat is meat, I know.18:14-18:16We do the same thing, by the way, with alcohol, right?18:17-18:18We know, we know some stuff.18:19-18:22Okay, small group leader thinking about having beer at your barbecue.18:22-18:26I know, I know, I know what the Bible says, okay?18:26-18:31And in fact, you know, back in biblical times, they didn't have refrigerators.18:32-18:37So their grape juice fermented, and it was really only like a 3% alcohol on some things.18:37-18:40And it was, but some of the drinks was only 1% alcohol.18:41-18:48And (mimics barking) Look, knowledge is great.18:49-18:56Actually, God's word exalts knowledge, knowing God's truth.18:57-19:01But here's the thing, knowledge isn't everything.19:02-19:02Okay?19:04-19:06Knowledge isn't everything because look at the rest of verse one.19:07-19:18He says, "This knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." Just having knowledge puffs up.19:18-19:20Knowledge makes people proud.19:21-19:22That's what he's saying.19:22-19:23Knowledge makes people proud.19:24-19:25Have you ever been around that guy?19:26-19:27You know that guy?19:28-19:30The actually guy?19:31-19:32You know that guy?19:32-19:33That's like actually.19:33-19:34You know, you've been around that guy?19:36-19:37If you are that guy, I hope you repent.19:38-19:39But you know that guy.19:39-19:43You're like, man, it was like 80 degrees today.19:43-19:47Actually, it was 77 degrees.19:48-19:49(sniffling)19:50-19:51You got me.19:52-19:53I'm a big fat liar.19:54-20:00Or you're like, strawberries are my favorite fruit.20:01-20:04Actually, a strawberry is not a fruit.20:04-20:05It is a member of the rose family.20:06-20:08Actually, a banana actually is a berry.20:09-20:09Actually.20:14-20:15Knowledge puffs up.20:15-20:19The guy that's just knowledge, obnoxious.20:23-20:29He says, "But love, love builds up." You see, knowledge is about me, but love is about you.20:30-20:32Love is about building you up.20:32-20:37And that's why you gotta have love with your knowledge.20:37-20:38That's Paul's point here.20:39-20:41Actually, he said the same thing, Philippians 1:9.20:42-20:51"And it is my prayer that your love may abound and more with knowledge. You see that? Love with knowledge and all discernment.20:53-20:59All your Bible knowledge does you no good if you aren't operating from a position of love.21:01-21:16So look at verse 2. He says, "If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know." Knowledge is a funny thing, isn't it?21:16-21:20You think you know something, and you don't.21:21-21:30The guy that's walking around thinking he's the expert and he knows everything, usually doesn't really know near as much as he thinks he knows.21:34-21:38You mature people, Paul says, you mature people insisting on your liberty.21:38-21:43You think you're so smart, but you don't know as much as you think you do.21:44-22:04because you're missing what the Christian life is all about and it is love. Biblical knowledge should move you to love. You're like, "Wait, wait, hang on.22:04-22:12How does that work? How does knowledge and love, how does that How does that work together exactly?22:12-22:17And Paul's like, "Like your relationship with God Himself." Look at verse 3.22:18-22:26He says, "But if anyone loves God, he is known by God." There it is.22:26-22:31Knowledge and love working together in your relationship with God.22:31-22:33Both of them have to be present.22:34-22:36So you can know about God without loving Him.22:38-22:45But you don't really know God without loving Him.22:48-22:49So what's he saying?22:49-22:50Here's the bottom line, alright?22:51-22:53Here's the CliffsNotes version of this chunk.22:53-22:58He says, "Your knowledge means nothing without love." That's what he's saying.22:58-22:59Your knowledge means nothing without love.22:59-23:06God doesn't care that you know stuff if you don't love your weaker brother.23:06-23:07That's the point.23:09-23:13So again, you're thinking about having beer at your small group barbecue.23:15-23:20Listen, and that guy's coming that's had the struggle in the past.23:20-23:26Look, that guy that's coming, he doesn't need your list of alcohol facts.23:26-23:27Okay?23:27-23:35What he needs is you to love him enough that you care more about him growing in Christ then you do you having your beer.23:39-23:48So if you're insisting on your liberty on the basis of, I know some Bible verses, you missed the big picture.23:50-23:52All right, I have knowledge.23:54-23:55Great, great.23:57-24:01Doesn't matter in the face of a weaker brother, you gotta love him.24:02-24:03I love 'em.24:03-24:06Number two, jot this one down.24:06-24:06I have wisdom.24:08-24:09I have wisdom.24:10-24:11There's a difference, right?24:12-24:13Knowledge, you know the facts.24:14-24:19Wisdom is like knowing how to apply the facts, knowing how knowledge works together.24:21-24:23Look at verses four through six with me.24:24-24:39He says, "Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that an idol has no real existence, and that there is no God but One.24:41-25:14For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords. Yet for us, there is one God the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." Wow. I could do like a whole series just on like the end of verse 6 there.25:15-25:16That is such an awesome verse.25:16-25:17You should highlight that in your Bible.25:21-25:23That's the gospel right there in verse 6.25:23-25:24This is the gospel.25:24-25:39God came to us in Christ, and we go to God in Christ.25:43-25:44That's awesome.25:47-25:50Regarding the issue at hand, Paul's here saying, "Look, right on, right on.25:51-25:52Hey, I'm with you.25:52-25:54The idol is just a trinket.25:54-25:55There's no boogeyman in the meat.25:56-25:57You have wisdom.25:57-26:03You understand the world in light of the truth of God's Word." Awesome.26:04-26:12Verse 7, "However, not all possess this knowledge." See that?26:13-26:14Paul's agreeing with him.26:14-26:15Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.26:16-26:16I get it.26:17-26:18The idol's a trinket.26:19-26:19Right.26:21-26:22The meat's not haunted, I get it.26:23-26:23You're right.26:24-26:34However, however, look, God in his word has told us everything he wants us to know about him.26:38-26:42But we are all at different levels of understanding.26:43-26:50Some of us are just a little further down the road on our journey than others in maturing with Christ.26:50-26:51That's just the way things work.26:52-26:54We learn, we grow, we mature.26:54-26:56Some of us are more mature than others.26:56-26:57That's just reality.26:59-27:00And that's what Paul's saying here.27:00-27:01He's, "Look, good for you.27:01-27:02You know some things.27:02-27:04You know some things about the idols.27:04-27:05Guess what?27:05-27:07Not everyone understands.27:08-27:09Not everyone's where you are.27:12-27:13Not everyone gets it.27:15-27:42Look at the rest of verse 7, he goes, "But some," talking about the weaker brothers here, "but some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience being weak is defiled." Your conscience, he says, "These weaker brothers having a problem with their..." What is the conscience?27:42-27:44We talked about this way and through the book of Hebrews.27:45-27:46Your conscience, what is your conscience?27:46-27:57The conscience is the part of your mind that approves or condemns what you do, based on how you understand right and wrong.27:59-28:00That's your conscience.28:00-28:04And some, Paul says, have a weak conscience, meaning it's immature.28:06-28:28not fully understanding yet. And if a weaker brother eats the pagan meat, they go against their conscience and Paul says, "They are defiled." That word "defiled" actually means "guilty." They feel guilty for doing it. They went against their conscience.28:35-28:49Have you ever believed something for so long that even when you learn the truth, it's hard to let go of that old belief that you held onto for so long?28:51-28:52I think we've all been guilty of that.28:53-28:54You know, here's one for me.28:56-29:01When I was a kid, I've always been an excellent singer.29:04-29:06(congregation laughing)29:14-29:14What is going on here?29:21-29:23Learning to have grace with the weaker brothers.29:24-29:25(congregation laughing)29:28-29:30Pastor Taylor, you are absolutely right.29:30-29:32That statement was sarcastic, you are right.29:33-29:34He is absolutely right.29:34-29:36He's not the weaker brother, he's right.29:36-29:38But I have always been a great singer.29:38-29:49But anyways, when I was little, I would sing at the dinner table, 'cause I'm always singing, I'm singing, doing everything, but I'd come to the dinner table and I'd sing.29:50-29:51And do you know what my mom told me?29:52-29:57She says, "You can't sing at the table because it," anybody know?29:59-30:00She made this up.30:01-30:05My mom said, she says, "You can't sing at the table "because it makes the angels cry."30:07-30:08(congregation laughing)30:12-30:13I am dead serious.30:14-30:18Now I found, I just this minute realized she just made that up.30:20-30:21'Cause I was expecting somebody to shout that out.30:22-30:23Nope.30:25-30:29So I grew up like, don't sing, when I get to the table, I'm like, don't sing, why?30:29-30:38because all the angels in heaven are like, "Oh, please." At first I thought it was just like anybody singing, but I think mom meant my singing.30:39-30:41My singing offended the holy angels.30:41-30:56But so I was like, "Don't sing at the table "because the angels, it just made the angels cry." And you're like, "That's silly." It is, admittedly.30:57-31:05But I gotta tell you, to this day, if I'm eating somewhere and I hear somebody singing, do you know what the first thing is that I think of?31:08-31:09You're making the angels cry.31:10-31:11Way to go.31:13-31:14Do you know what I mean?31:14-31:22I know that's not true, but I do cringe when I hear somebody sing at the table because it was just so ingrained in me my whole life growing up.31:22-31:23Don't sing at the table, don't sing at the table.31:24-31:24Angels are weeping.31:27-31:27Like...31:30-31:34And it was true in this culture that Paul's dealing with here.31:35-31:40Imagine the person that got saved out of idolatry.31:41-31:42That's a huge change.31:44-31:57You know, all this time, for all these years, the evil spirits live in the meat, got to sacrifice to the gods, you get the spirits out of the meat, the evil spirits live in the meat, and then they come to Christ, They get the truth of the gospel, and they're like, "That's not true.31:58-31:59There's no evil spirits in the meat.32:00-32:07It's not true at all." It's totally safe to eat, right?32:08-32:12I mean, it is safe, right?32:17-32:23But, I mean, it is pagan meat.32:23-32:41eat. I mean, I guess it's okay to eat it. I mean, gosh, I just don't feel right about eating it. You see the dilemma? I know, but I...32:46-32:55See, mature believers, mature believers, maybe you understand the real truth about the idols and the mate.32:55-33:05Paul's like, "But your weaker brother, he's not there yet." And love says, "I will forego something that might bother the weaker brother." That's what love says.33:06-33:13Look, spiritual maturity is deeper than right and wrong.33:16-33:30The mature believer says, "How does what I do affect the baby Christians?" And you see with the whole alcohol, with the small group barbecue thing, it's the same principle in play.33:31-33:38If the weaker brother is coming to the barbecue, the loving choice is to not have any alcohol there at all.33:40-33:42Not being legalistic, being loving.33:44-33:48I don't want this to be a problem for you, so we're just going to take it off the table.33:49-33:51We'll have a Dr. Pepper.33:55-34:05Look, if you're insisting on your liberty on the basis of, "I have wisdom, I know the ways of the world and how it works," you've just missed the whole picture.34:08-34:08One more.34:11-34:15Three valid reasons for liberty that don't work when you have a weaker brother.34:17-34:19"I have knowledge." That doesn't work when there's a weaker brother.34:19-34:22"I have wisdom." That doesn't work.34:22-34:26When you have a weaker brother, number three, here's one that we often use, I have good theology.34:28-34:30And see, these all do kind of bleed together, obviously.34:32-34:33But I have good theology.34:36-34:37Look at verse eight.34:38-34:41He says, "Food will not commend us to God.34:42-34:55"We are no worse off if we do not eat "and no better off if we do." Interestingly, that word commend is literally draw us near to.34:58-35:01What you eat is not going to draw you closer to God.35:04-35:04And that's what he's saying.35:05-35:11Eating doesn't make you holy, nor does eating make you a sinner.35:13-35:15That's good theology, right?35:16-35:16It's good theology.35:18-35:20What you eat will not draw you near to God.35:21-35:24There's only one way to draw near to God, and that's Jesus Christ.35:25-35:29He provided access to God through his death, through his resurrection.35:29-35:32That's the only basis you have of coming to God.35:33-35:35The only way you can draw near is through Jesus Christ.35:36-35:38But it certainly isn't in what you eat.35:41-35:43That's great theology, right?35:45-35:53So God doesn't care what we eat, But, but God does care about his weaker children and the way we love them.35:54-35:55He cares about that.35:55-35:57Look at verses nine and 10.35:58-36:05He says, "But take care that this right of yours "does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.36:07-36:23"For if anyone sees you who have knowledge "eating in an idol's temple, Will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols?36:27-36:30Stumbling block, stumbling block.36:30-36:33That's something that makes you sin, right?36:33-36:34That's a stumbling block.36:35-36:41And Paul here says, you're insisting on your freedom can make the weaker brother sin.36:45-36:45What do you mean?36:46-37:03Just simply this, if their conscience says, don't eat the pagan meat, and they see you eating, they're going to feel pressured to go against their conscience and eat, and that will make them miserable.37:06-37:11They're gonna feel the pressure, they're gonna eat, and then they're gonna immediately, I shouldn't have eaten that.37:13-37:20But you know, he makes me feel guilty if I don't join in and eat, but then I do eat, and now I feel guilty that I did.37:23-37:24You see an obvious application, right?37:26-37:33You decide you're gonna go ahead and have alcohol with your little small group barbecue, volleyball extravaganza thing.37:33-37:35And you're like, I'm still gonna have alcohol there.37:36-37:39And that recovering addict shows up.37:40-37:43And he's like, yeah, I don't drink anymore.37:44-37:45It ruined my life.37:48-37:50But everybody else is drinking.37:51-37:54Man, I kind of feel like the odd man out here.37:55-38:01Maybe I should, I mean, these are new friends and I should try to fit in, right?38:01-38:06So, I don't want to look like a weirdo.38:08-38:08And then he drinks.38:10-38:11How does he feel about himself afterwards?38:14-38:15I can't believe I did that.38:22-38:26Listen, never ever violate your conscience.38:28-38:36I have people come to me for counseling all the time and it can be a gray area matter and they'll say, "I just have this conviction about this.38:36-38:39"Is that right?" I tell them the same thing, ask anybody that's come.38:40-38:42I'm like, I will never tell you to violate your conscience.38:43-38:50If you have a conviction and it's different than mine, and it's a non-biblical issue, I am not going to tell you to violate your conscience on that.38:51-38:56And at the same time, do not ever ask someone else to violate theirs.39:01-39:06With your conscience, yes, understand, seek to understand why you feel how you do.39:07-39:11Evaluate if it is from God, but never violate your conscience.39:11-39:13Look, you're going to mature in Christ.39:13-39:19Your understanding of God's word is going to mature, but don't force it.39:23-39:27Let the growth happen naturally for you and for the weaker brother.39:31-39:48And I know at this point in the message, there's still somebody, somebody's inwardly protesting all this, saying, "Why should I care what my choices "have to do with somebody else's conscience?39:48-39:55"Like, why is that any of their business?" Well, look at verse 11.39:57-40:07Paul says, "And so by your knowledge, this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died.40:13-40:13Why should you care?40:16-40:18Because Jesus does.40:20-40:23How much does Jesus care about this weaker brother, really?40:23-40:25How much does Jesus care?40:26-40:27Jesus died for him.40:28-40:30That is how Jesus regards this man.40:30-40:35That is how Jesus so loves this man that Jesus was willing to die for him.40:36-40:38And that's why you should love him too.40:41-40:57Verse 12, he says, "Thus, sitting against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ." Wow.40:59-41:00Paul ratchets it up.41:01-41:03This is the top of the mountain here.41:04-41:10He goes, "Do you need a reason to not offend the weaker brother?41:10-41:13Do you need a reason for that?" He goes, "Here's your reason.41:13-41:15Here's number one.41:17-41:21Jesus takes any mistreatment of his people very seriously.41:22-41:29You sit against that weaker brother, you're sitting against Jesus himself." And Jesus takes this very seriously.41:32-41:41Look, if you pressure my son into doing something he doesn't wanna do, we are having words.41:45-41:51Jesus has a much stronger stance on this than I do, actually.41:54-42:14Matthew 18.6, "Whoever causes," these are the words of Jesus, "Whoever causes one of these little ones "who believe in me to sin, "it would be better for him to have a great millstone "fastened around his neck "and be drowned in the depths of the sea." You sin against a weaker brother, you're sinning against Jesus.42:15-42:16He takes that pretty seriously.42:17-42:32And again, Matthew 25, verse 40, Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, "As you did it to one of the least of these, my brothers, "you did it to me." Serious business.42:34-42:36And finally, verse 13.42:39-42:58Paul says, "Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, "I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble." Paul's like, "Look, run the risk of sinning against Jesus?42:58-42:59Nuh-uh, uh-uh.43:00-43:18I'm not going to insist on my liberty, my rights." Paul says, "I will become a vegan before I cause a brother to stumble, because loving Loving my weaker brother is more important than having a burger.43:20-43:24And loving my weaker brother is more important than having a beer.43:28-43:35So if you're insisting on your liberty on the basis of, "Well, I have good theology," you missed the big picture.43:37-43:37All right.43:38-43:39That was the introduction.43:41-43:42Here's the sermon.43:44-43:47Your liberty goes only as far as love.43:50-43:56Like the Corinthians, you can say, "Well, I know the Bible and I understand spiritual truths.43:57-43:59My theology is on point.43:59-44:06I am free in Christ to do whatever I want!" No, you aren't.44:09-44:14You must be willing to lay down your rights if it means protecting your weaker brother.44:17-44:19For communion servers would come up, our worship team.44:23-44:32I'll give you one more reason why we should lay down our rights out of love.44:35-44:37And it's because we have a great example.44:37-44:45You know, the Bible says Jesus did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped.44:45-44:46Wrap your head around that.44:47-44:55Jesus had the right to insist on all of the privileges that come with being God.44:58-45:02And he humbled himself to give them up.45:05-45:11The question I have for you this morning is, will you follow Jesus in that?45:13-45:19Are you willing to lay down your rights, your freedoms, out of love?45:21-45:22I want you to stand.45:25-45:31And when you're ready to receive the Lord's Supper, by the way, if you're a born again believer in Christ, this is for you.45:32-45:37You don't have to be a member of Harvest Bible Chapel, but you do have to be a born again believer in Christ.45:38-45:39And if you are, he invites you.45:40-45:49Come down the center aisle, receive the elements, and I'm gonna ask that you take them back to your seat by going to the outside aisle.45:49-45:56And when everyone has the elements, we will receive the Lord's Supper together as an act of church unity.45:56-45:57All right, please come.46:01-46:03Why should I choose to lay down my rights?46:07-46:11because I have a great example in my Lord.46:13-46:20The Bible tells us the night Jesus was betrayed, He took bread and He broke it.46:20-46:43He gave thanks and He said, "This is my body which is given for you. Eat this in remembrance of me." After the meal, Jesus took the cup He said, "This cup is the blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for the forgiveness of sin.46:45-46:47Drink this in remembrance of Me." Small Group DiscussionRead 1 Corinthians 8:1-13What was your big take-away from this passage / message?Do you tend to lean more on the side of “legalism” or “libertine”? Why?What exactly is meant by “stumbling block” (1 Cor 8:9)? How could you be responsible for someone else sinning (1 Cor 8:12)?Besides alcohol, what are some examples of gray areas today that we need to be careful to “not make a weaker brother stumble”?BreakoutPray for one another.

Introduction: Introduction: Three Advantages of Being Single: (1 Corinthians 7:25-40) You're Saved from CERTAIN TROUBLES. (1 Cor 7:26-28) You're Saved from DISTRACTION. (1 Cor 7:29-38) Matthew 22:30 – For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Colossians 3:2 – Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. You're Saved from OBLIGATION. (1 Cor 7:39-40) Matthew 19:10 – The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANKHint: Highlight blanks above for answers! AUDIO TRANSCRIPT 00:37-00:41Open up those Bibles to 1 Corinthians and chapter 7.00:44-00:49And while we do, I'm just going to ask that you would just pause with me here.00:49-00:58You pray for me, that I will communicate God's word as I should, clearly and accurately and straightforwardly.00:58-01:03I will pray for you, that your heart would be open to receive what God wants to teach us today.01:03-01:06All right, so let's just take a moment and pray.01:10-01:19Father, be glorified through the proclamation of Your Word, through receiving Your Word and being doers of Your Word.01:20-01:23Be glorified in all things, we pray in Jesus' name.01:24-01:41And all of God's people said, "Amen." Several years ago, a friend of mine told me about this single friend that he has who was sitting home one day and got a phone call.01:42-02:10The phone rang, he picked it up, and he's like, "Hello?" And the voice on the other end said, "Hi, would you be interested in meeting a lot of exciting available singles in your area?" And the man said, "I got enough problems." It's funny, but that's really the heart of this passage that we're looking at today.02:14-02:23See, in 1 Corinthians 7, we've seen that marriage is a gift, and God has given married people a wedding present that they are to use appropriately.02:25-02:29And we've seen that for some people, being single is a gift.02:32-02:37But each one brings their own set of issues.02:38-02:47And the Corinthians were writing to Paul, asking for counsel, and Paul was writing this letter back to them, giving them counsel.02:48-02:50Look at verse 25.02:52-03:15Paul says, "Now concerning the betrothed, I have no command from the Lord, but I give my judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy." You see, he says, "Now concerning." We saw that again back in chapter 7 verse 1.03:15-03:20It seems that Paul was going through a list of things that they brought up.03:20-03:21He goes, "Okay, let me tell you about this.03:22-03:32Okay, now let me tell you about this issue you brought up." It's kind of a Q&A format, and he says the next subject here is the betrothed.03:32-03:35Some translations say virgins.03:35-03:38He's talking to the singles.03:41-03:42All the single ladies.03:44-04:08that song? Get your hand up. I studied that dance this week and I was going to do it for you, but I looked at myself in the mirror and I do not dance like Beyonce. So maybe Maybe some other time.04:12-04:17But last week we saw Pastor Taylor talked about commitment.04:17-04:19That was in the previous passage, commitment.04:20-04:22Trust God where He has you, right?04:22-04:24Bloom where you are planted.04:27-04:30And I was thinking about that through the context of the whole passage.04:31-05:08Paul's talking about marriage and sexuality and singles issues, and then he talks about contentment, and then in this passage he's addressing the singles. Like why that flow? Why did he insert contentment right in the middle of that? And I think it's because there are certain aspects of being single that make it hard to be content. And here's what I mean by that. I think especially in the church there difficulties in being single.05:09-05:13Because I mean, think about it, in church, marriage is exalted.05:15-05:19In church, you see many godly marriages.05:20-05:28You sit and you watch infant dedications, and I think for singles there's a real sense of FOMO, right?05:30-05:35So this passage we're looking at today, mostly, is for the single people.05:37-05:53And if you're tempted to be like, "Oh, this ain't for me, I'm tuning out." I would say, "You are forbidden to tune out of this message." We expect our single people to sit through series on marriage, series on parenting.05:54-06:00We're like, "You need to listen to this, you need to listen to this, you know married people, so you should listen to this." You know single people, all right?06:01-06:05And maybe the Lord will open a door for you to be able to encourage them with some things in here.06:05-06:06All right?06:07-06:09So if I see you tuning out, I'm gonna throw a Bible at you.06:12-06:12All right?06:12-06:18So Paul says here, don't worry, it'll be a soft cover, not like a MacArthur study Bible or anything.06:19-06:28But Paul says here, I have no command for the Lord, but I give my judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy.06:28-06:29We talked about this before.06:30-06:38All Paul is saying here is the Lord, Jesus Christ, did not specifically address these singles issues during His earthly ministry.06:38-06:41It wasn't...being single is not a moral issue.06:42-06:45Jesus didn't really go into depth in addressing this.06:46-06:46Right?06:48-07:03He says, "I don't have a quote for you from Jesus." When it comes to divorce, Paul said, "I got quotes for you from Jesus about divorce." Jesus was crystal on that, but I don't have a quote from Jesus really about these aspects of being single.07:03-07:08But Paul's like, "Hey, you can trust me." Right?07:09-07:24And he goes on in this passage to say, "It's good to be single." Actually, he says it's in many ways better to be single.07:24-07:27It's wiser to be single.07:29-07:37Right now the singles among us might have heard that last statement and thought, "What's so great about being single?07:39-07:40What's so great about it?07:42-07:44What is it, the loneliness?07:46-07:47Is that what's so great about it?07:49-07:54Is it the stigma that people put on you, like, "Oh, you're single.07:54-07:58What's wrong with you?" Is that the great part of being single, Pastor Jeff?08:00-08:05Is it going to the soda shop, Pastor Jeff, and eating the wet walnut sundae by yourself?08:12-08:14Is it all the people that try to play Cupid?08:15-08:16Is that the great part?08:17-08:21You know, I got this co-worker, it'd be great for you.08:22-08:24Both of his teeth are really clean," and whatever.08:28-08:30I can't wait to meet him.08:32-08:33Is that the great part, Pastor Jeff?08:34-08:35Is it the FOMO, Pastor Jeff?08:36-08:36Is it?08:36-08:38What's the great part, Pastor Jeff?08:39-08:40What's the great part?08:41-08:46Well, this is what the Lord said, okay?08:46-08:49This isn't Jeff's opinion, this is God's opinion.08:49-08:52So on your outline, I want you to jot some things down.08:53-08:55Here's three advantages of being single.08:55-08:57All right, three advantages of being single.09:01-09:03Oh, right, sorry.09:10-09:11I beg your pardon.09:12-09:13I have a disclaimer.09:17-09:20I have been happily married since 2002.09:27-09:32Despite what Paul says about singleness, I am very thankful for my beautiful, talented, and intelligent wife.09:33-09:35I acknowledge that I married up.09:36-09:40Her presence daily enhances my life in every way.09:41-09:46And then it says at the bottom, you better read this and sound convincing, love Aaron.09:47-09:48(congregation laughing)09:57-09:58I am thankful to be married.10:01-10:05That was what God had for me, but God might not have that for you.10:06-10:07All right, he gives different gifts to different people.10:08-10:11So if you're single, here's three advantages of being single.10:11-10:15Number one, write this down, you're saved from certain troubles.10:16-10:19You're saved from certain troubles.10:22-10:25And here's the point, I'm gonna give you the heads up and we're gonna see it in the text.10:25-10:34What Paul's saying here is there are troubles married people have that single people do not have, okay?10:34-10:36That's why the word certain is in there.10:37-10:40Not, save from all troubles, everybody's got troubles, okay?10:40-10:41Everybody's got troubles.10:41-10:47But there are certain troubles that married people have that single people have the luxury of not having, all right?10:48-10:53And he gives them in two categories, and the first one is present distress.10:53-10:57You can write that down on your outline underneath number one, distress.10:57-10:58Look at verse 26.11:00-11:13Paul says, "I think that in view of the present distress, It is good for a person to remain as he is, obviously, or as she is.11:14-11:15Okay, what's the distress?11:15-11:16What's the distress?11:16-11:21Well, some translations translate that violence.11:22-11:23Violence.11:24-11:28It's just simply hardships of living in a violent world.11:29-11:37And Paul's like, "Hey, hey, the world's a violent place, so it's probably better, single that you're not married for that reason.11:38-11:49See for the Corinthians, about 15 years after they would have received this letter, they endured horrible persecution that lasted for 200 years.11:51-11:52And I think Paul knew that.11:53-11:55Like, the world's a violent place.11:58-12:00But see, this principle isn't just for them.12:01-12:05I mean, isn't the world a violent and evil place today?12:06-12:08I mean, do I really have to sell you on that?12:09-12:14I mean, look at all the school shootings and sex trafficking, all the wars.12:15-12:20I wrote this before the events of yesterday, the events of yesterday happened.12:21-12:21The wars.12:23-12:33The war for your kids, all the gay and transgender stuff pushed in schools, the persecution for simply believing the Bible, Charlie Kirk, remember him?12:36-12:44So I would ask you, church, when Paul talks about violence to the Corinthians in our day, are we getting better or are we getting worse?12:45-12:46Which is it?12:48-12:54Can you really turn on the news and be like, oh yeah, there was violence back in that day, but I think things are pretty safe now, right?12:54-12:55Could you say that?12:56-12:57Of course not.12:59-13:01And I was thinking about this a lot this past week.13:02-13:05What era of human history was perfectly safe?13:06-13:07To have a wife and kids.13:08-13:09Is there any?13:09-13:27Can you point to an era and be like, "Yeah, this was the sweet spot right here in human history that it was…everything was safe." You see, such violence has extra implications if you have a spouse.13:28-13:32If you have a spouse, many times you also eventually have children.13:35-13:38Such violence has implications for spouse and kids, right?13:39-13:43What I mean is, look, I'm not afraid of being attacked personally.13:43-13:43I'm not.13:44-13:44Like, whatever.13:46-13:52I mean, somebody doesn't like the sermon and they slip past security and come up and shoot me or whatever.13:52-13:53Okay, whatever.13:53-13:54See you in heaven.13:56-14:03But I've got a wife and kids, and the thought of them being in danger is terrifying to me.14:04-14:08To think that they're in danger and I can't protect them and I can't be there.14:11-14:12That's what Paul's talking about here.14:13-14:20You see, if I suffer, whatever, but if they suffer, that is way more painful than any suffering that I can endure.14:22-14:30That's why Paul says there in verse 26, he says, "Remain as he is." That's better.14:30-14:32"Remain as he is." He clarifies that though.14:32-14:33Look, he clarifies.14:33-14:34Look at verse 27.14:36-14:39He says, "Are you bound to a wife?14:40-14:41Do not seek to be free.14:41-14:42Are you free from a wife?14:44-14:50Do not seek a wife." He says, "Married, stay married.14:50-14:51Single stay single.14:52-14:53Did you get a divorce?14:53-14:55Stay as you are.14:58-15:06He's saying singles might be wise to pump the brakes on getting married in view of just how violent the world is.15:08-15:08You see that?15:09-15:11There's a second category of trouble.15:11-15:12We saw the presence of stress.15:13-15:14The next one is that worldly troubles.15:15-15:16Look at verse 28.15:16-15:17This is a little different though.15:18-15:26Verse 28, he says, "But if you do marry, you have not sinned.15:27-15:31And if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned.15:32-15:39Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that." Stop there.15:40-15:41There's worldly troubles.15:42-15:53I mean, he says, "A marriage isn't sin, obviously." He goes, "But it brings trouble." There's conflict within marriage, right?15:54-16:00He already addressed there's conflict that comes from outside, but there's also conflict that comes from the inside.16:01-16:07What I mean is, you know, I have to deal with my own sin issues.16:08-16:09I am incredibly selfish.16:15-16:21I can be incredibly prideful, and I can be horribly irritable.16:25-16:27I got those issues going on.16:28-16:36Now, I get married and I got to deal with my wife's sin issues.16:36-16:38I mean, not my wife.16:38-16:43I mean, but you see the point.16:45-16:47You got your sin issues, whoever you marry is going to have sin issues.16:48-16:52The potential for misery in marriage is worse than for singles.16:53-16:58Like yeah, singles are going to deal with their own sin, married people, the amount of sin just doubled in the home.17:03-17:07people get married thinking it's going to fix everything, right?17:08-17:22People get married thinking, you know, "I have these physical urges, and if I just get married, all those urges are going to be fixed." It's not always true, right?17:23-17:25Or people are like, "I'm incredibly lonely.17:26-17:32I'm just so lonely, and if I get married, I won't be lonely." That's not always true either.17:37-17:40Sometimes these things just get worse, right?17:41-17:48Desire for intimacy gets worse when you have a spouse you want to be with but is unresponsive.17:50-17:53Loneliness gets worse when you live with someone who resents you.17:57-18:02So if you're single and you're on the fence, "Should I get married?18:03-18:05Maybe I'll wait till the end of the sermon to decide.18:05-18:11What should I do?" If you're single, "Oh, I wish I had a string.18:11-18:43My previous church, I had a string of marriage counseling sessions I was going through, and I so wish, single people, that I could take you into these marriage counseling sessions and have you sit in the corner and just watch." That would make up your mind for you because you would walk out of there going, "I am so thankful that I don't got to deal with that." Potential for misery in marriage is worse than the potential for misery in singles.18:43-18:44That's what Paul's saying.18:46-18:53I mean even if conflict isn't the big issue, I mean there's plenty of other worldly troubles, right?18:56-18:58like sickness, for example.19:00-19:04I mean, I remember back when I was single, and that was a difficult season in my life.19:06-19:08But do you know what's harder than being single?19:10-19:12You know what's harder is watching a sick wife suffer.19:13-19:13That's harder.19:14-19:20You know what's harder than being single is watching a sick child that you've prayed for for decades not get better.19:21-19:22That's harder than being single.19:24-19:26Now this is Paul's whole point here.19:26-19:27Look, life is hard.19:27-19:28Life is hard for everyone.19:29-19:31I mean, the Bible is crystal on that.19:31-19:38Life is hard for everyone, but getting married invites other elements of trouble.19:40-19:42The world is violent, my wife is violent.19:42-19:45Single people are saved from that.19:47-19:49I guess that's number one.19:49-19:53Number two, three advantages of being single, you're safe from certain troubles.19:53-19:55Number two, you're safe from distraction.19:57-19:58You're safe from distraction.20:01-20:07Marriage brings distraction, and he gives two ways that it does.20:07-20:15First of all, you lose your perspective on priorities, and second of all, you get distracted by the duty of taking care of a family, right?20:15-20:16So let's talk about these.20:17-20:17Let's break them down.20:19-20:21One distraction, losing perspective on priorities.20:21-20:25Look at verse 29, he says, "This is what I mean, brothers.20:27-20:29The appointed time has grown very short.20:30-20:41From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none." You've got to read it in its context.20:42-20:47If you pull that verse out of its context, you're thinking it says something way different than it does, okay?20:48-20:50So you've got to listen to the rest of us.20:50-21:00He is not saying…He is not saying…everybody say, "Not saying." He is not saying, "Detach from your wife." He's not saying that at all.21:00-21:02The context makes it clear what He is saying.21:02-21:20Look, verse 30, He goes, "And those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy as though they had no goods, those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it.21:21-21:28For the present form of this world is passing away." See, what's he saying?21:28-21:29Look at the context.21:30-21:37Mourning, rejoicing, stuff, doing business, that's all earth stuff.21:39-21:39Right?21:39-21:43That is all stuff for here and now.21:45-21:57Paul's saying, "Don't live as if this is all there is." You realize so many people live as if they are going to be here forever, and you're not.21:58-21:59None of us are.22:03-22:05That's what Paul's talking about here.22:05-22:09You're mourning, you're going through a hard time, it's temporary.22:10-22:12You're not going to be mourning in heaven over that.22:12-22:14Oh, and you're rejoicing, you had the greatest day of your life?22:14-22:17Okay, that's not going to mean anything in heaven.22:18-22:18Right?22:19-22:20Oh, you're worried about your stuff?22:20-22:21He ain't taking it with you.22:22-22:24Earthly dealings, you're not going to be doing that in heaven.22:26-22:27It's all earth stuff.22:30-22:43And then he says, "Life as we know it on earth, it's all passing away, including marriage." I mean, all of these things in his list, he's saying these things all look different in light of eternity.22:44-22:48And don't let these things distract you from the big picture.22:49-22:50Do you know what the big picture is?22:52-22:59The big picture is you were created by God to spend a certain amount of time on this earth.23:04-23:09But you were born with a sinful nature we inherited from the first man.23:12-23:15You were born with a nature to rebel against your Creator.23:17-23:20Not to do what He wants you to do, but to do whatever you want to do.23:20-23:23You're selfish too, just like me.23:25-23:28And someday you're going to stand before that God who created you.23:29-23:32That God that you've rebelled against, someday you're going to stand before Him.23:33-23:37He just sang about what kind of God He is.23:37-23:38Holy forever.23:39-23:46You rebellious sinner are going to stand before the holy God that you rebelled against.23:49-23:58You deserve the worst that He could give you, which is hell, eternal separation from Him.23:59-24:07But because He loves you so much, He sent His Son to die on the cross on your behalf, to take your sin penalty on Himself.24:08-24:16When Jesus was on the cross, God was pouring out His wrath on Jesus, the wrath that I deserve and the wrath that you deserve.24:17-24:21Then Jesus rose from the dead so that we too can have the promise of eternal life.24:22-24:23That is the big picture.24:25-24:28So whether you buy or sell, you had a great day, a horrible day.24:28-24:34you get married or not, you're going to stand before a God who is going to judge you.24:35-24:38But if you are in Christ, there is no condemnation.24:39-24:40You are not guilty.24:40-24:41You are forgiven.24:43-24:44No sin will ever be held against you.24:44-24:45That is the big picture.24:45-24:55And Paul is saying, "Do not let the stuff of the earth, including marriage, distract you from that." He's just simply putting things into perspective.24:58-24:58Right?24:59-25:02Even marriage is not eternal.25:02-25:05Jesus said this in Matthew 22.25:06-25:18He says, "For in the resurrection, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." Marriage is a "for now on earth" thing.25:20-25:20Right?25:20-25:21not for heaven.25:23-25:24We have it for now on earth.25:25-25:25Why?25:25-25:27For partnership, right?25:28-25:31For pleasure, for procreation.25:34-25:39All the purposes that marriage fulfill, those purposes aren't going to exist in heaven.25:40-25:44We're not going to need them fulfilled the way that they're fulfilled on earth.25:46-25:52I was thinking about this this week and I thought back to my days in elementary school.25:55-26:05I remember there were kids that would go skiing over the weekend and then they'd come to school on Monday.26:06-26:07Some of you remember this?26:07-26:09They'd come to school on Monday with their winter jacket on.26:09-26:11Remember what they still had hanging on their winter jacket?26:13-26:15Your lift pass, remember that?26:15-26:16They'd walk in.26:21-26:22(groans)26:27-26:29What'd you do over the weekend, Joey?26:33-26:35It was such a badge of honor.26:37-26:38You're like, why are you making fun of him?26:38-26:39Because I was so jealous.26:40-26:41That's why.26:43-26:46It was such a badge of honor, wasn't it, to walk into school.26:48-26:50You're not laughing because you were those kids, weren't you?26:52-26:54You were those ski lift tag kids.26:59-27:01I kind of laugh because you know what?27:02-27:05That lift tag was very useful for a time, wasn't it?27:06-27:09I mean, when you're skiing, that thing is super useful.27:09-27:11It has great purpose.27:11-27:16"Oh, you're skiing, it has great purpose." But then when you show up at school, what is it?27:16-27:18It's just a piece of garbage hanging from your coat.27:20-27:21It doesn't mean anything.27:22-27:24Like, dude, you don't need that.27:24-27:26You don't need to ride the lift to the cafeteria.27:29-27:31You don't need the ski tag.27:32-27:34And that's really, same thing with marriage.27:35-27:38Like, hey, married, I got a beautiful wife, she's awesome.27:38-27:45It's like, yes, but you're not going to need a wife in heaven, because every relationship is going to be perfect.27:50-27:53Paul's saying what he says in Colossians 3 too, right?27:53-27:57Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.27:59-28:02Don't let marriage distract you from your spiritual life.28:03-28:42Don't let marriage make you lose perspective on your priorities? Because it does. There are people, there are some people here that work more on their marriage than they do on their personal walk with Jesus Christ. That's a problem. That's backwards. If you worked more on your personal walk with Jesus Christ, things in your marriage would get a whole lot better. But marriage distracts us from focusing on eternity because marriage, as God's Word tells us, divides our interests.28:44-28:45Look at verse 32.28:49-28:52Paul says, "I want you to be free from anxieties.28:55-29:00The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord." How to please the Lord.29:01-29:06But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife.29:08-29:09And his interests are divided.29:11-29:20And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit.29:20-29:27But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband.29:29-29:36Any single people can serve Jesus undistracted because the single person only has one set of cares.29:37-29:39The married person is divided.29:40-29:41That's what he's saying.29:41-29:47The married person says, "I really do want to serve Christ.29:47-29:58I really do want to give everything to Jesus, but I also have this God-given responsibility to take care of my family.30:00-30:07My interests are divided." So, singles better.30:09-30:11You're like, "Man, that sounds legalistic." Look at verse 35.30:13-30:38Paul says, "I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord." See that's exactly what Paul is saying here, he says, "I'm not being legalistic." He says, "This is for your benefit." But don't think that married people are second-class citizens.30:41-30:41Right?30:42-30:55Verse 36, he says, "If anyone thinks he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed, if his passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes.30:55-30:57Let them marry, it is no sin.30:58-32:31But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity, but having his desires under control and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well. So then he who marries his betrothed does well, and he who refrains from marriage will do even better." You're like, "What is he talking about here?" This would have made way more sense to the original audience of this letter. Understand here, Paul is talking specifically here to fathers of unmarried daughters. The fathers had decision-making power in the matter of marriage for their daughters. Like, well that sounds very weird. Not really. Even today, I mean, isn't there the custom of when you want to get married to a woman, don't you go to her father and ask for her hand in marriage? Where do you think that comes from. Right? Same principle. But understand, Paul's just, once again, even in that, he's laying out the same thing he's been saying through this whole chapter, specifically through this whole passage. He goes, "If they get married, great. And if they remain single," He's like, "That's even better.32:32-32:39It's even better." Paul says here in this section that when it comes to serving Jesus, single people have an advantage.32:42-32:54Now, understand, single people, single people understand before you go out and get your ski tag, understand he's not saying single people are more spiritual than married people.32:54-32:55He is not saying that.32:56-33:02Single people are not automatically more devoted to Jesus than married people.33:02-33:04He is not saying that.33:04-33:11You're like, "Well, what is he saying?" He's saying single people have the greater potential in their service to Jesus Christ.33:16-33:17All right?33:17-33:46people, consider how much of your resources goes to just taking care of your family, right? How much time does your family require? How much money do you spend on your family? How much energy does your family get? And the answer is Because they get all of all the above, right?33:49-34:04And Paul here is simply saying, "Single people, you have tremendous opportunity, capacity, and potential to serve Christ because you're saved from the distractions that come from having to take care of a family." Right?34:04-34:05Single people?34:07-34:07Single people?34:08-34:12You want to spend extra time in prayer and the Word today?34:13-34:30You can do that without a bunch of little people running up to you going...and you're like, "I fed you yesterday." Well, you've got to feed them today too.34:31-34:33Single people don't got to worry about that.34:34-34:36Single people, you want to go on a mission trip?34:37-34:42You know what, this Vision Appalachia thing, I'm about that, I'm gone.34:42-34:44I'm going to talk to Bob Brown, I'm gone.34:44-34:46Single people can do that, like at the drop of a hat.34:47-34:51Or hey, next trip to Thailand, I am there.34:52-34:53No problem.34:53-35:00Single people can do that because you don't have to factor in the schedules of several other people.35:02-35:02Right?35:04-35:17Single people, you're like, "Oh, it's a prayer service tonight at church." You don't have to worry if you're going to miss it because your spouse is working late or Joey has yet another lacrosse tournament.35:20-35:21That's like the fifth one today.35:24-35:26Single people don't got to worry about that.35:26-35:27That's all Paul's saying here.35:29-35:35Oh, and P.S., history is full of single people that God has used mightily.35:37-35:39I read about a whole bunch of them this past week.35:40-35:44I don't have time to get into all of them, but I will mention one.35:44-35:47How about Paul, right?35:48-36:12Paul himself being single allowed Paul the opportunity to evangelize the Roman world and write holy Spirit-inspired letters that guide, encourage, and bless the churches even until today." So I guess Paul being single adds quite a bit of credibility to this Spirit-inspired truth that he wrote.36:12-36:14He says, "Hey, are you single?36:15-36:21You're saved from a lot of distractions." All right, three advantages of being single.36:21-36:22You're saved from certain troubles.36:23-36:24You're safe from distraction.36:24-36:26Number three, you're safe from obligation.36:28-36:31One more, you're safe from obligation.36:33-36:36Paul says a wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives.36:38-36:46But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.36:48-36:52Yet in my judgment, she is happier if she remains as she is.36:55-36:57And I think that I too have the Spirit of God.36:59-37:00I love that last statement.37:01-37:16Paul's like, 'cause you know that people are gonna be reading this and hearing this like, "Oh, come on, Paul, that's just your opinion." And he's like, "Yeah, I think I have the Holy Spirit too." So you're saved from obligation.37:16-37:22Paul says, "If your spouse dies, You can marry another believer.37:24-37:38Paul says, "Yet you'll be happier to stay single." But, Paul says, "Once you marry, you are bound as long as your spouse lives." He's talking about the obligation to the marriage.37:41-37:57The most important choice you will ever make for however long you have on the earth, the The most important choice is whether or not you are going to turn from your sin and turn to Jesus Christ and receive Him as your Lord and Savior.37:57-37:59That is the most important choice you will ever make.38:00-38:03Do you know what the second most important choice is that you will ever make?38:04-38:06Is the person that you decide to marry.38:11-38:12Because there's no going back.38:14-38:15At least not in God's eyes.38:16-38:17There's no going back.38:18-38:20It's more important than choosing a college major.38:20-38:23It's more important than choosing a career.38:24-38:26It's more important than choosing a tattoo.38:29-38:33More important than all these, who you marry, because it's a covenant before God.38:33-38:36It's a sacred thing in the eyes of God.38:36-38:47In the eyes of God, you're bound for life, and Paul's reminding, hey, when you're bound to a spouse, there is no more liberty that comes with being single.38:51-38:58You know, in Matthew chapter 19, Jesus was talking about marriage and divorce and adultery.38:58-39:03He was being challenged, and we've talked about that passage even very recently.39:04-39:12And Jesus gave his teaching on what it means to be married and defining divorce and adultery and all of that.39:12-39:18Well, the disciples heard all this, and this was their response to Jesus.39:18-39:24After hearing the Lord teach about marriage, this is what the disciples said in response to Jesus.39:25-39:41The disciples said to Him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it's better not to marry." Go back and read that whole passage, and you'll see they got it.39:42-39:44They were not rebuked for this statement.39:45-40:03Jesus is like, "Yeah, but not everybody can receive that, but yeah, they got it." Marriage is not for everyone, but there is a special wisdom and dedication that single people are gifted, right?40:04-40:06Our worship team would make their way back up front.40:13-40:22Single people, do you have the gift of being single?40:23-40:24Do you have that gift?40:28-40:32You're like, "You know, I really think this might be God's gift for me, being single." Is that you?40:32-40:34Well, I want to say something to you.40:34-40:38On the authority of the Word of God, it is not inferior to being married.40:39-40:46In fact, God says very clearly, in a lot of ways, it is better.40:49-40:55But for those of you who are single and you're struggling to know, "Do I have the gift?40:55-40:57I'm not sure if I have the gift.40:57-41:12What does God have for me?" Today I just want you to consider the benefits that the Word of God laid out, that there are troubles, distractions, and obligations that you're going to be saved from.41:13-41:14Let's pray.41:15-41:48in heaven, we thank you for your Word. And I know this can be a touchy and emotional subject, but I thank you. I thank you for the tone in which you inspired Paul to communicate this, that it wasn't some hard-nosed, snarky, legalistic thing at all, but just an objective look at reality.41:51-41:52God, You give gifts.41:52-41:53Your Word is so clear.41:53-42:10You give gifts to each one of us, and for some, Father, You've given the gift of singleness, and I pray a special blessing on those that You have so set aside for specific types of ministry that married people are unable to do.42:11-42:28Father, for the single people here maybe who are struggling, not sure if it's their gift, I just ask, Father, that you would maybe use this message to give them direction on what it is exactly you do have for them.42:30-42:47For the rest of us, Father, show us how we can love and encourage our single brothers and sisters without making them feel like they're on a second tier path because according to your word, it's kind of the opposite.42:49-42:53Give us wisdom, Father, in all these things we ask in Jesus' name, amen. Small Group DiscussionRead 1 Corinthians 7:25-40What was your big take-away from this passage / message?Give some examples of “troubles” that come in marriage (internal and external) that single people are spared.How exactly are single people able to serve Jesus without “divided interests” (1 Cor 7:33)?What are some ways the church can reach single people for discipleship (without allowing it to become just a “match-making ministry”)?BreakoutPray for one another.

What if the reason you’re not healing isn’t that you need another diagnosis? 0:08 It’s that your cells aren’t receiving the right signals. Because the body doesn’t run on diagnosis, it runs on 0:16 communication. And peptides are one of the most powerful, most misunderstood 0:21 tools we have for cellular signaling, immune balance, tissue repair, gut 0:27 lining support, metabolic control, brain signaling, sleep cycles, and even sexual 0:35 wellness. Today, I’m going to do what most people won’t. Define peptides in 0:41 plain English for you. break them into categories by what they’re best at and 0:47 tell you which ones are FDA approved on the list and which ones are commonly 0:53 used off label or investigational with the evidence that actually says these 1:00 work. This is going to be a powerful episode and if you’ve ever felt like you’re hearing hype without clarity, 1:07 this one’s for you. So, as usual, grab your cup of coffee or tea and settle in 1:13 as we talk about peptides that can fit into your healing journey. We’re going 1:19 to have a short word from our sponsor. You know, we got to do that. That’s how we stay on the air here. So, we will be 1:26 right back after this. Did you know sweating can literally heal your cells? 1:32I nfrared saunas don’t just relax you. They detox your body, balance hormones, 1:37 and boost mitochondrial energy. I’m obsessed with my health tech sauna. And 1:42 right now, you can save $500 with my code at healthtechalth.com/drmuthqen25. 1:54 All right, here we go, guys. I am excited to dive into peptides with you. 2:00 So understanding peptides is foundational, right? And I’ve been 2:06 studying peptides now for about nine years. Um, and I find that they are 2:13 incredible. Um, so I want to break down for you what peptides actually are, what 2:19 they do, and some of the top peptides that are available today, and how they 2:25 can be utilized. Because I think it’s really important. And I think it’s it’s there’s a lot of confusion out there about what these things actually are and 2:32 are they safe? Are they not? When do we use them? What’s the science behind them? So, we’re going to dive in and 2:38 we’re going to talk about all things peptides. So, let’s get ready here. Here we go. So, peptides are short chains of 2:45 amino acids and they typically range anywhere from 2 to 50 amino acids and 2:51 they’re linked by peptide bonds. So think of them as the superglue that holds the amino acids together. They sit 2:58 between the amino acids and they are full proteins in terms of their size and 3:04 their complex structure. And what makes peptides particularly interesting in 3:10 medicine is their role as signaling molecules. They’re essentially the 3:15 body’s text messages carrying specific instructions to cells and tissues. And 3:21 unlike our proteins which often serve as structural roles or act as enzymes, 3:28 peptides typically function as hormones, neurotransmitters and growth factors and 3:33 they bind to specific receptors on the cell’s surfaces or within the cells and 3:39 they trigger this effect. It’s like a cascade effect of a biochemical reaction 3:45 that ultimately changes the cellular behavior. So basically, it’s changing 3:50 the way the body’s cell structure acts. And this is why peptides can be so 3:56 incredibly powerful and therapeutic when you introduce the right peptide signal. 4:02 Now, you could theoretically redirect cellular processes toward healing, 4:07 towards metabolism, immune balance, tissue repair. Any of those things can 4:14 be manipulated to do a certain thing once we add the peptide. The challenge 4:19 in peptide medicine though lies in distinguishing between those peptides that have been rigorously studied, 4:26 proven safe and effective and approved by regulatory bodies like the FDA versus 4:31 those that exist in what we call the gray zone of a promising clinical data. 4:36 But they really lack human validation so far. And this distinction is critical because the presence of a plausible 4:43 mechanism does not guarantee safety or efficacy in living humans. So, this is 4:50 really important and we’re going to dive in and look at some of the research on all of these different peptides that are 4:56 available and I’m excited to say there’s some amazing peptides being studied right now that unfortunately are not 5:01 available. But I can’t wait to see them hit the market for us because it is going to be a gamecher as far as health 5:09 and longevity. So there is a quality control issue and there is a hidden 5:14 variable in peptide medicine with this and it’s one of the most underappreciated aspects of peptide 5:21 therapy particularly for non-FDA approved peptides. It’s quality control. 5:26 When we discuss pharmaceutical medicines, we take for granted that the pill contains what the label says. Not 5:32 always true depending on where it comes from. You guys, if you’ve heard my episodes before talk about how many of our medications are made in China and 5:41 have been contaminated with other things, you will realize that that is not always true. So, just because it has 5:48 the FDA stamp of approval on the medication, it still does not necessarily mean it’s safe and we still 5:54 need to do our homework on it. So, sorry for digressing on you guys, but you know, when we get a medication, we we 6:00 think that what the amount says is what is there, doesn’t have contaminants, it’s manufactured with good 6:06 manufacturing practices. You’ll see that listed as GMP on the bottle, and it’s been stored properly, it’s been 6:12 maintained stable, and with research peptides and compounded formulations, 6:17 none of this can be assumed. So, I will share a story with you. There was a gentleman that was purchasing these 6:24 peptides online from a research facility and um did not know that they were 6:30 coming from China and he was ordering a particular growth hormone peptide and 6:35 after a little while he had he had done fine for the few first few bottles. After a little while he started having 6:42 some complications. He started getting really irritable and angry and ragy and 6:47 he didn’t quite know what was going on. And so he decided to go get some testing done. He had some blood testing done and 6:53 his testosterone level was over 5,000. So for those of you who know what testosterone level should be for a guy, 7:00 they really shouldn’t be any higher than about 1,00200 would be absolute max that we’d want to see. Now he was taking 7:06 testosterone but not to that degree. And prior to adding this peptide, his 7:12 testosterone was very stable. What they ended up finding out was the peptide that he was getting, whoever was 7:18 manufacturing it added testosterone to the peptide. They felt like if if it had growth hormone, that was great, but if 7:25 it had growth hormone and tes testosterone, all the better. And he didn’t know that. And this is the 7:31 problem that we can have with peptides if you don’t source them properly. if you’re not working with somebody that 7:37 knows how to source them and can prove that they are what they say they are. Um, I’m sure there’s a whole bunch of 7:42 studies out there too of people getting these peptides and paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for them over their 7:48 lifetime and finding out they were nothing more than just sterile water. So, you really do need to be careful 7:53 with your quality control. Now, this kind of leads us right into the next topic that we’re going to talk about and that’s the manufacturing question, 8:00 right? The FDA approved peptides are manufactured in facilities subject to 8:05 the FDA inspection rules following our GMP regulations and these facilities 8:11 must validate their manufacturing process, demonstrate consistency batch to batch, test for purity and potency. 8:18 They need to test for bacterial endotoxins and sterility and they need to maintain detailed records. So, when a 8:25 pharmaceutical company submits a drug application, the FDA inspects the manufacturing facility as part of the 8:32 approval process. If you’re getting peptides from a different country, none of that is happening. And there are some 8:38 ways for us to determine if that is what you’re getting. Typically, the rule of thumb is if your peptides are coming 8:44 with a different colored top, every one of them has a different colored top. Those are typically being sourced out of 8:49 China. I wouldn’t say that’s 100% but that’s kind of the rule of thumb that people follow. So compoundingies these 8:56 are thearmacies that make our bio identical hormones. They can make medications in any dose or strength or 9:02 route. There are thousands of them in every not that not in every state but 9:08 there are thousands of them around the country right now. So these compoundingies are registered as 503A 9:15 facilities. They do traditional compounding for individual prescriptions, right? Like they can make 9:20 thyroid, they can make LDN, they can make estrogen. You can also have a 503b 9:27 facility, which is an outsourcing facility. And these companies produce larger batches of products. They’re they 9:34 have some oversight, but they’re less stringent than for FDA approved 9:40 manufacturers. And state boards of pharmacy regulate a 503A pharmacy. And 9:45 the FDA can inspect the 503b facility, but doesn’t preapprove any of their 9:52 compounding products. So, they can inspect it, but they don’t approve them. So, research chemicals and these 9:58 suppliers operate essentially with no oversight. They explicitly market products for research use only, not for 10:06 human consumption to avoid FDA regulation. If they put that on their 10:12 product, they don’t have to comply to what the FDA is saying. And there is no required manufacturing strategies or 10:19 standards, no required testing, no required sterility assurance, and no enforcement mechanisms if products are 10:26 mislabeled or contaminated. So basically, they don’t have the liability, but that doesn’t mean that 10:31 all of them are badies or bad suppliers. It just means they don’t have to comply 10:37 to the FDA rules. Now, there are many of these companies that I’ve seen and I’ve talked to that do do a lot of this. They 10:44 do test their product for sterility. They do test their product to make sure it is what it says it is. They don’t 10:51 have to, but they do. So, if you’re going to decide to use a company that 10:56 has research only, not for human consumption, at least ask for their 11:02 proof of testing so that you know that the product you’re getting is what it says it is and that it’s clean. Because 11:08 this is where we run into the problem is in purity. So in purity peptide 11:13 synthesis can produce not just the targeted peptide but also related 11:19 peptides with deletions, substitutions, truncations or truncations of amino 11:25 acids. Sorry. And this high performance liquid we call it uh chromatography can 11:30 separate these related impurities and quality and quantify the actual target 11:35 of the peptide content. So a certificate of analysis is what you want to ask these companies for. This shows the HPLC 11:44 the testing mechanism with greater than 95% or ideally 98% purity which 11:51 indicates a higher quality product. So this certificate of analysis can be fabricated may not represent the 11:57 specific batch being sold. It happens. We need to know not everybody is honest. Not everybody, you know, does what they 12:03 say and it does what’s right. But at least you at least they’re giving you something and you have some security. 12:10 and then choose a company that was referred to by someone else that has done some homework as well. In in 12:16 commercial research, there’s independent testing and they research peptides and this has been really shocking 12:23 variability that they’ve seen. Some products contain 50% or less of the 12:29 claimed peptide and some contained primarily degradation of the product or manufacturing impurities and some 12:36 contained bacterial endotoxins at levels that could cause fever and systemic 12:42 inflammation if it was truly injected. And I would also worry with some of those problems, you know, depending on 12:48 what impurity or bacterial endotoxin was there. If you’re using a product to boost your immune system and your immune 12:54 system is already compromised, these bacterial endotoxins can actually make you sicker instead of what you want it 13:02 to do, which is making you better. So, sterility is always an issue with anything that is manufactured, 13:08 especially things that we’re doing as an injection. Peptides are intended for injection. They must be sterile. They 13:16 must be kept safe. And pharmaceutical manufacturers conduct this sterility testing on every batch. 13:22 Compoundingarmacies should conduct sterility testing particularly for high-risisk compounded 13:28 sterile preparations and research chemical suppliers may or may not conduct any testing. So injecting 13:35 non-sterile material can cause local infections, abscesses at the injection 13:41 site and or if the bacteria enters the bloodstream could potentially be 13:46 life-threatening and you could have sepsis. Now, excuse me. We saw this 13:52 happen in a compounding pharmacy uh gosh, it’s probably been 10 years ago 13:57 now, I think. um they unfortunately had a strep uh contamination in their 14:03 product and they weren’t testing it. It was a large compounding pharmacy out of Florida and they were making products 14:08 that were being injected into the joints and um these people got very very sick 14:14 and some of them died and um some of them got very very injured by this uh 14:21 complication that happened. So it’s not like this doesn’t happen. It does, but it doesn’t happen often. And that’s what 14:28 we have to know about. And so, when we’re talking with you guys about storage and stability, it’s really 14:34 important to make sure you maintain your peptides well. So, many peptides are unstable at room temperature. They 14:41 require refrigeration or freezing. We tell everyone to make sure you’re refrigerating your peptides. That way, 14:48 there’s no question about it. when it stays cold um it prevents or slows down 14:54 the process of uh bacteria growing in it. So some of these peptides actually 14:59 degrade very rapidly in the solution and they must be reconstituted immediately before use and reconstitution of the 15:07 peptides really has limited stability often just days to weeks not months. So 15:13 improper storage, temperature, um changes during shipping or prolonged 15:19 storage of a reconstituted product can lead to degradation into inactivity or 15:25 potentially even a harmful breakdown of the product itself. So if you have a product that’s been sitting in your 15:30 refrigerator for a month or two months or 3 months or 6 months, just throw it away. It’s not going to be any good. 15:37 you’re not going to actually get the peptide and the uh potency that you’re looking for anyway out of it and the 15:44 potential of you introducing an endotoxin, a bacterial endotoxin is quite high at that point. So you just 15:50 really don’t want to take the risk, excuse me. So what practitioners, what 15:56 should we do and what should patients do? Well, for any peptide therapy, we 16:03 want to source our verification. know where the peptide product comes from. Is 16:08 it an FDA approved product? Is it a 503b compounding? A research chemical 16:14 supplier? Is there a certificate of analysis? Request and review this COA. 16:20 And you want it to show purity greater than 95% but ideally greater than 98%. 16:27 You want that identity be identity to be confirmed by mass spectromedy. Uh 16:33 sterility testing should be done. Bacterial endotoxin testing should be done. Batch number matching of the 16:39 product that you received should be done. Proper storage. You want to know that this has been refrigerated or 16:46 frozen as directed once it’s been mixed. Look at the expiration dates for reconstituting your peptides. Track that 16:53 reconstitution date and discarded accordingly like we just talked about. Monitor for your adverse effects. Even 17:01 with the perfect quality control, monitoring for adverse effects is essential with questionable quality and 17:08 vigilance is really critical here. I know it’s frustrating for a lot of patients when they have to get several 17:15 bottles and they only last a week or two. right here, you guys. This is why 17:21 they only last a short period of time because once they’re mixed, they start 17:26 to degrade and they won’t be good and you won’t get the benefit from it. So, 17:31 it’s really important with these research peptides specifically, practitioners should recognize that all 17:38 recommending products without quality assurance violates the fundamental medical principle of first do no harm. 17:45 If a patient is determined to use research peptides despite counseling, providing guidance on quality 17:52 verification, requesting those COAs, using pharmaceutical grade sources when available, proper testing, this all 17:59 reduces harm, but doesn’t constitute necessarily that recommendation. Now, 18:06 that being said, today it’s very difficult to find peptides by the compoundingies because of what the FDA 18:13 has done. So most of the peptides that are available to us have been labeled 18:18 not for human consumption, not because they’re not good products, but because 18:25 of what the FDA did. And this is how these companies have been able to 18:31 continue to provide peptides to the medical community. And if you know you 18:36 have a good company, then you’re, you know, you’re still taking the risk, right? But at the end of the day, the 18:42 reason they’re doing that is to protect themselves from the FDA, from liability. Um, so just kind of know that there is 18:50 some talk in the community with um Bobby Kennedy that this is going to change and 18:55 they are going to bring peptides back to the compounding pharmacies. Now, we don’t know which ones they’re going to 19:01 bring back. Uh, will it be all of them? Will it just be some of them? What’s going to happen here? Um, is it going to 19:07 go to the pharmaceutical companies like our GLP1s did? We don’t know what that’s going to look like quite yet. Um, but it 19:14 is coming and that is positive news. So, let’s talk now about FDA approved 19:21 peptide medications. So, this is the metabolic revolution, right? GLP1 19:28 and our dual increeting agonists. This is an exciting time. GLP-1s are amazing. 19:35 Um, a lot of people are skeptical, a lot of people love them, a lot of people hate them. Whichever side of the fence 19:42 that you’re on, I understand. But I want to talk about the science of it today 19:48 and what it actually means for people. So, the story of GLP1 glucagon like 19:54 peptide one represents one of the most significant advances in metabolic 19:59 medicine in the past several decades. GLP-1 is an accretin hormone. It’s 20:05 gutder derived peptide that potentiates insulin secretion in response to food 20:11 intake. And the body naturally produces GLP-1 in the intestinal L cells, but it 20:17 rapidly degraded by the enzyme DPP4 giving it a halflife of only about 2 20:24 minutes. So this rapid breakdown made in therapeutically impractical until 20:31 research was developed and modified the analoges that resist the enzyme degradation. So for those people who 20:39 never feel full when they’re eating, never feel satisfied when they’re done, this is because their body is either not 20:46 producing enough GLP1 or it’s not getting the signal right. And this is a 20:51 leptin issue. This is an insulin issue. It’s a GLP-1 issue. It’s a complicated 20:56 issue. This is not anything that the person is doing wrong. It’s what is happening to their body. And so GLP1s 21:03 have really revolutionized this. So one particular GLP-1 that we have is 21:09 semiglutide. And this GLP-1 agonist is what changed everything in the world of 21:16 metabolic medicine. Semiglutide is marketed as ompic for type 2 diabetes 21:23 and it’s marketed as WGOI for chronic weight management. It is a modified 21:29 GLP-1 analog with 95 or sorry 94% amino acid sequence uh homology to human 21:37 GLP-1. So it means that it’s it’s just like our own GLP-1 that we make. This 21:42 modification includes specific amino acid substitutions and the addition of C18 21:50 a fatty acid chain which allows the peptide to bind to albumin. Now this 21:56 albumin binding dramatically extends the half-life to approximately one week 22:01 enabling one weekly dosing which is a major advantage over the earlier GLP-1 22:07 agonists that require daily or twice daily injections. The mechanism by which 22:13 semiglutide works is multiaceted. At the pancreatin level, it binds to GLP-1 22:20 receptors on the pancreatic beta cells enhancing glucose depending sorry 22:27 enhancing glucose dependent insulin secretion. This glucose dependency is 22:33 crucial. It means the peptide only stimulates insulin release when blood glucose is elevated. This dramatically 22:41 reduces the hypoglycemic risk compared to insulin or even uh sulfuras. 22:47 Simultaneously semiglutide suppresses glucagon secretion from pancreatic alpha 22:53 cells further improving glycemic control. This is really amazing because 23:00 over the years when we’ve used insulin, which is also a peptide by the way, you 23:05 had to dose it just right because if you didn’t, you would produce so much insulin that it would crash the blood 23:12 sugar and then somebody would have too low of a blood sugar. They’d be hypoglycemic and they’d have to eat more 23:18 sugar and then they’d have to modify the insulin again and the person would be going up and down, up and down, up and 23:24 down all day long. And that created a lot of problems for people and so this 23:30 helps to stabilize that so it is not such an intense change. Now in the GI 23:36 tract semiglutide delays the gastric emptying particularly pronounced during 23:41 the initial weeks of therapy. This slowing of the gastric emptying contributes to the sensation of being 23:48 full and early satiety that patients often describe. However, this effect 23:54 tends to attend to weight over time as the body adapts through the appetite 24:00 suppressing effects generally persist through central mechanisms. So, when we 24:05 talk about what is actually happening, we’re slowing that digestive process down. That’s why people aren’t so 24:11 hungry. It’s why they’re not eating so much. This is why people can develop constipation with these products because 24:17 it’s slowing the body’s digestive tract down. Now some people will call this 24:22 gastroparesis. Um gastroparesis is actually different. 24:28 It is when we lose control over what’s happening in the in the colon like the 24:34 nerves and things like that just stop working. I have never seen that with the GLP1s that we prescribe in micro doing. 24:42 um it’s been documented. It can happen, but again it a lot of it is dosing and a 24:48 lot of it is staying on top of your client and what’s happening and what’s going on and what you’re doing and making sure that they do have good 24:54 motility still. So a lot of these things can be mitigated if you have problems 24:59 with them. Now one of the most profound effects of semiglutide occur in the 25:05 central nervous system. GLP-1 receptors are widely distributed in the brain 25:10 particularly in the hypothalamus and the brain stem area where we are involved in 25:15 appetite regulation. So when when wilding and colleagues published their 25:20 landmark step one trial in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2021, 25:25 they demonstrated that participants receiving 2.4 4 milligrams of semiglutide weekly achieved an average 25:32 weight loss of 14.9% of their body weight over 68 weeks. Now, I want you 25:39 guys to really understand this. We’re talking roughly 15% body weight loss 25:45 over a year, longer than a year. 52 weeks is a year, right? This is 68 25:50 weeks. So, it took longer for them to lose. We’re not talking about giving 25:55 somebody a dose to lose 15% of their body mass in a month or two. That that 26:01 is not healthy for any of us. That is not what we’re talking about doing here. Now, they compared this to placebo and 26:08 the placebo was only 2.4%. So, that is a significant difference. 26:14 And even beyond the numbers, patients reported something very qualitatively different, a reduction in what’s now 26:21 called food noise. Everybody knows what food noise is. We’ve talked about this long before GLP1. It’s that craving. 26:28 It’s that part of your brain that just keeps thinking about I want to eat something. You know, that was actually 26:34 reduced and they didn’t expect to see that happen. Now, this refers to the constant mental preoccupation with food, 26:42 the intrusive thoughts about eating, the difficulty in feeling satisfied. Semi-glutide appears to appears to 26:49 modulate reward pathways in the misolyic system reducing hedonic eating and food 26:57 cravings. Now there are also great cardiovascular effects of semiglutide 27:02 that extend beyond weight loss. Uh the sustained six and select trials 27:07 demonstrated significant reductions in major adverse cardiovascular events uh 27:14 mace in high-risisk populations. The select trial published in 2023 showed 27:20 that semiglutide reduced cardiovascular death, non-fatal myioardial inffection 27:25 and non-fatal stroke by 20% in adults with overweight or obesity and 27:31 established cardiovascular disease but without diabetes. So this suggests that 27:37 mechanisms beyond glucose control and weight loss possibly including 27:42 anti-inflammatory effects, improvements in endothelial function and favorable 27:47 changes to lipid profiles. Now I will tell you the clients that I work with that are on GLP1, 27:53 they will tell you that their inflammation has been significantly reduced. We are also seeing really 28:00 amazing results in lipid profiles. um part of its weight loss, but there is a 28:06 component to this that is lowering the triglyceride levels because it’s related to sugar and how the body’s processing 28:11 it. And we’re seeing better profiles, less need for statins as a result of 28:17 that. If if you want to listen to my episode on statins, I have one on that. Uh they are not my favorite medication. 28:24 I think it’s overprescribed and overused um and not really affecting or 28:29 addressing the problem. So these things can really be helpful. There’s also some 28:34 uh ramblings going on with GLP-1s saying that they may be able to help with 28:40 addiction in the future because of where they’re finding it affecting the brain and how it affects the food noise and 28:47 the cravings that we have for food and the addiction for food. Could it potentially help with other addictions 28:53 down the road? We’ll have to wait and see on that one. So semiglutide’s FDA prescribing information also includes a 29:00 box uh boxed warning about thyroid sea cell tumors. So in rodent studies 29:06 semiglutide caused dose dependent and treatment duration dependent sea cell 29:12 tumors at clinically relevant exposures. So while it’s unknown whether or not 29:17 semiglutide causes uh thyroid cancer tumors in humans and the rodent thyroid biology 29:26 differs significantly from humans, the drug is contraindicated in patients with a personal or family history of 29:33 medillary thyroid carcinoma or in patients with multiple endocrine neopl neoplasia syndrome type two. it is 29:42 uh contraindicated for safety effects with that. Um I have seen endocrinologists okay GLP1s to be used 29:50 in patients who’ve had other forms of thyroid cancer just not the meillary 29:55 thyroid cancer. So there is possibility there. Now the most common side effects 30:00 are gastrointestinal. It’s nausea affects about 20 to 44% of patients 30:06 depending on the formulation with diarrhea, vomiting, constipation, abdominal pain, and also frequently 30:13 reported in clinical trials. I see this in my clinic, too, especially dose dependent. Um, and it happens early on 30:20 when you’re first starting the medication, but seems to settle out over time. The one that I would add to this 30:26 that I don’t think they have on here is an increase in acid reflux. We also see that quite often uh especially in people 30:33 who suffer with acid reflux to begin with. Now these effects are typically most 30:40 pronounced during the escalation and they like I said often improve over time 30:45 but more serious but less common adverse effects include acute pancreatitis. 30:51 The medication needs to be discontinued immediately if this is confirmed. You can see some diabetic retinopathy 30:57 complications in patients with pre-existing retinopathy and acute kidney injury. Um, this usually happens 31:05 secondarily to dehydration from the GI effects. There are some gallbladder disease um that can occur and people who 31:13 have a sensitive gallbladder will describe uh discomfort with that. I’ve 31:18 even seen some people who’ve had their gallbladder out on GLP1s at the higher doses complain of similar pain that they 31:25 used to have when their gallbladder was in. So, really important to just kind of monitor these symptoms and work closely 31:32 with somebody that understands them and can be on top of them quite quickly if this happens. Excuse me. From an 31:39 integrative medicine perspective, semiglutide really represents a powerful tool, but it’s not a standalone 31:46 solution. Remember, the medication addresses one aspect of the metabolic dysfunction, the signaling systems 31:53 controlling appetite and glucose homeostasis, but it doesn’t address the root cause that led to the metabolic 32:00 disease in the first place. Patients who rely solely on the medication without addressing the ultrarocessed food 32:07 consumption, the ccadian disruptions, the chronic stress, the sleep apnea, or 32:12 underlying hormonal imbalances often experience weight regain when the medication is discontinued. 32:20 The drug is also not a substitute for addressing the emotional and psychological drivers of eating 32:26 behavior, including the unresolved trauma that may manifest as emotional eating. I think this is really important 32:33 because we don’t address the trauma issue enough with clients and we need to 32:38 be looking at that. There is a huge trauma effect out there these days that is I don’t want to say leading to or 32:45 causing but it is definitely contributing to chronic illness and it’s not being talked about enough. So we 32:52 really need to be talking about this and addressing this trauma aspect. Now the next GLP that one that I want to talk 32:59 about is trespathide. This is a dual agonist. It takes center stage. It is my 33:05 favorite GLP one. Trisepatide is marketed as Mangjaro for type 2 diabetes 33:11 and Zepbound for chronic weight management and it represents the next 33:16 evolution in increantbased therapy. This is a dual agonist a 39 amino acid 33:23 synthetic peptide structurally based on the human glucose dependent insulin tropic peptide so GIP sequence but 33:31 modified to activate both the GIP receptors and the GLP1 receptors. So the 33:37 addition of the GI GIP agonism to the GLP1 agonism appears to create this 33:46 synergistic effect that goes beyond simply adding the two mechanisms together. So the GIP like GLP-1 is an 33:55 increant hormone secreted by what is called the K cells in response to nutrient intake. It enhances glucose 34:02 dependent insulin secretion but it also effects on atapost tissue metabolism 34:09 potentially improving the insulin sensitivity in fat cells and influencing 34:14 how the body stores and metabolizes fat. So some research suggests that GIP may 34:20 also have effects on energy expenditure though this remains an area of 34:26 investigation. So basically what we’re saying is this drug may actually help 34:32 people who are insulin resistant or insulin sensitive, not just somebody who 34:38 has problems with glucose control. So, this is super exciting because it opens 34:43 up the door for all of these people for decades that we’ve been trying to manage with insulin resistance and trying to 34:50 prevent diabetes and honestly most of the time have been unsuccessful 34:56 unless you can keep your diet at 50 grams of carbs or less a day, which is extremely difficult. Um, and take some 35:04 supplements that may or may not work and or take some metformin that may or may not help. this drug actually really 35:11opens that up and helps in that capacity. So there was a clinical trial 35:17 called the surmount clinical trial which demonstrated that trespathide produces 35:22 even more substantial weight loss than semiglutide. In the surerount one trial published by uh J tree I might have said 35:31 that wrong. I apologize if I slaughtered your name and colleagues in the New York England Journal of Medicine in 2022. 35:38 Participants receiving the highest dose of trespide, which is 15 milligrams, achieved an average weight loss of 20.9% 35:47 of their body weight over 72 weeks, compared to 3.1% with placebo. This 35:54 level of weight loss approaches what’s typically only seen in beriatric surgery. So, this is amazing because if 36:02 this medication works and we don’t have to do beriatric surgery, stomach stapling basically, um, oh my gosh, it’s 36:11 amazing. There are so many complications and risks that go with stomach stapling and the different procedures that they 36:17 do these days. People don’t absorb their nutrients properly. They have to do liquid nutrients. It’s very complicated. 36:24 It’s very challenging. Many of these people gain their weight back. Um, and 36:30 this procedure is not fun to go through. So, if we could change that and change 36:35 the lives of people who’ve really been struggling, it is amazing. And I will tell you that I have seen this work. I 36:42 have seen people lose 100 150 pounds on these medications over a year or two 36:50 period of time. It is definitely slower than beriatric surgery on some standpoints, but that is okay. You don’t 36:56 want that rapid weight loss. It’s not good for you. It’s not healthy for you. It doesn’t look well. You know, we want 37:03 to do this safely and effectively in the best way that we can possibly do that for you. Now, the adverse effect profile 37:10 is similar to semiglutide. It’s dominated by gastrointestinal effects. 37:15 Nausea, diarrhea, decreased appetite, vomiting, constipation. These were all commonly reported in the surmount 37:22 trials. And like semiglutide, tricepide carries a blackbox warning regarding the 37:27 thyroid sea cell tumors based on the rodent data and it shares the same contra indications in patients with a 37:34 family history of thyroid cancer and men too. So the mechanism behind why 37:40 tepatide often produces more substantial weight loss than GLP-1. The agonism 37:45 alone remains under investigation, but it may relate to the complimentary effects on the different aspects of 37:51 energy homeostasis or to GIP’s effects on atapost tissue and potentially on 37:58 central central nervous system pathways that GLP1 alone doesn’t fully address. 38:03 Now patients often report even more profound reductions in food noise with tricepide compared to GLP1 and uh sorry 38:12 GLP1 the agonists through this is anecdotal and hasn’t been regularly 38:17 quantified in quality studies. So I’ve done both uh personally and in my 38:22 practice. I really like trespide better than semiglutide. For me I had too many side effects with semiglutide. uh I had 38:30 less side effects with trespathide. I also plateaued on semiglutide which I 38:35 didn’t really care for. And with Tresepide, I haven’t plateaued and I’ve been able 38:42 to lose about 25 pounds in um a year and a half and I’ve been able to maintain 38:49 that. Um and I continued to use it because I do have a strong family history of cardiovascular disease. And 38:56 if this could help me so that I don’t follow my family lineage with cardiovascular disease, I am all for 39:03 trying to do that. I’ve watched too many of my family members suffer from this. I’ve lost my dad at a very young age. I 39:09 lost my grandfather at a young age to it. All of their brothers to this. And I don’t want to be that same person. So 39:16 that is why I chose to do that. And I think it’s really important for us to take a look at that and understand that. 39:24 Now, I know this has been a really long podcast and I don’t typically do podcasts this long. I have a whole host 39:31 of information on additional peptides. So, I’m going to break this up for you 39:36 guys and I’m going to do another episode and we’re going to pick up where we left off here with these peptides so that we 39:43 can actually start to dive into different peptides as well. So, check 39:48 out my next podcast show when we’re going to dive into the peptides that 39:54 talk about sexual wellness, immune function, and all the other cool things 39:59 that we can do with peptides. So until then, remember to like, share, and 40:04 subscribe. It really helps us get out to other people and share our information, 40:10 and join us for our next episode as we continue the talk about peptides. 40:15 Welcome to Let’s Talk Wellness Now, where we bring expert insights directly to you. Please note that the views and 40:21 information shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Let’s Talk Wellness Now, its 40:28 management, or our partners. Each affiliate, sponsor, and partner is an 40:34 independent entity with its own perspectives. Today’s content is provided forformational and educational 40:40 purposes only and should not be considered specific advice, whether financial, medical, or legal. While we 40:48 strive to present accurate and useful information, we cannot guarantee its completeness or relevance to your unique 40:56 circumstances. We encourage you to consult with a qualified professional to address your 41:01 individual needs. Your use of information from this broadcast is entirely at your own risk. By continuing 41:08 to listen, you agree to indemnify and hold Let’s Talk Wellness Now and its 41:14 associates harmless from any claims or damages arising from the use of this 41:20 content. We may update this disclaimer at any time and changes will take effect 41:26 immediately upon posting or broadcast. Thank you for tuning in. We hope you 41:31 find this episode both insightful and thought-provoking. Listener discretion 41:36 is advised.The post Episode 256 – How Peptides Work, Benefits, and FDA-Approved vs Off-Label Use Explained first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

Introduction: Matters of Marriage: A Word for Each of You. (1 Corinthians 7:8-16) Singles: Enjoy the GIFT of SINGLENESS or GET MARRIED. (1 Cor 7:8-9) Single & Want to Get Married? 3 Don'ts: Don't SETTLE. Don't Look for the RIGHT PERSON. Don't Seek MARRIAGE – Seek LOVE. Married Christians: STAY MARRIED. (1 Cor 7:10-11) Married to a NonChristian (Who Wants to Stay Married): STAY MARRIED. (1 Cor 7:12-14) Married to a NonChristian (Who Wants to Leave): LET THEM GO. (1 Cor 7:15-16) Romans 7:2 – For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Matthew 19:8 – He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce...” Matthew 19:9 - “And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANKHint: Highlight blanks above for answers! AUDIO TRANSCRIPT 00:36-00:39Open up those Bibles, 1 Corinthians chapter 7.00:41-00:42Chapter 7.00:44-00:47We're in the third section of 1 Corinthians.00:48-00:51Chapters 1 through 4 is about unity.00:52-00:54Like church, get it together.00:56-00:58Chapters 5 and 6 are about purity.01:01-01:08And then when we get to chapter 7 verse 1, you see that Paul is addressing some questions that they had.01:10-01:17And the first subject of this Q&A session is marriage.01:20-01:22So that's where we are.01:22-01:24We go where the text takes us.01:24-01:33I'm going to ask that you would please just quiet your heart before the Lord for a moment and pray for me to be faithful to communicate God's Word.01:33-01:44This is a passage that is going to get a reaction, and it's not about really my opinion or your opinion, it's what did God actually say?01:45-01:46That's what we're going after, right?01:48-01:52So pray for me to be faithful to clearly communicate what God said.01:52-01:57I will pray for you to have a heart open to receive what it is that God said.01:57-01:59All right, let's just take a moment and pray.02:02-02:16Our Father in heaven, I know that many times in my life I've had strong opinions about things that have had to change because of what your Word says.02:22-02:26Because at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what any of us think, Father, It only matters what you think.02:27-02:42So I just pray that you would give us wisdom, that you would eliminate any distractions in our hearts and minds so we can just lock into what your Word has to say here.02:44-02:45It's for the glory of your name.02:46-03:00We pray in Jesus' name, and all of God's people said, "Amen." If you've been with us at all through our series in 1 Corinthians, we've seen that everything was a mess, right?03:00-03:06So now Paul's talking about marriage and no surprise, marriage was a mess.03:07-03:09We talked about this last week.03:09-03:16There were people strong on the single side and there were people strong on the marriage side.03:16-03:17Which one is good?03:17-03:21And the answer is both of them are good.03:23-03:28Marriage was a mess in Corinth, and if we're going to be honest, we're not doing so hot here today either.03:31-03:38As I was preparing this, I get an email that has just short news articles in it and updates and things like that.03:39-03:42And I just read this on Friday, I wanted to share part of this article with you.03:43-03:50This is the newest craze, I haven't heard of this one, maybe you have, but the newest craze is divorce rings.03:51-03:52Have you heard of divorce rings?03:53-03:54Raise your hand if you've heard of divorce rings.03:55-03:57Okay, a couple of you have, all right.03:58-04:04This is new as far as this article told us, but I just want to read part of it.04:04-04:18It says, "The diamond ring Alex Weinstein," that's a female, "wears every day is a reminder that once upon a time she said, "I do," these days she happily says she does not.04:20-04:45Weinstein got divorced last March and tossed her engagement ring in a drawer for a few months. Then the Tampa, Florida-based content creator decided to make herself a divorce ring. She reset a radiant three-carat stone from her ex- husband into gold, turning it east to west in a bezel." I should have looked up what that meant.04:45-04:46Anybody know what a bezel is?04:47-04:48Okay, nobody?04:49-04:50All right, I shouldn't have said anything, huh?04:51-04:53I was safe until I just said that.04:53-04:55All right, noted.04:55-04:56That helps me for the second service.04:58-05:07The shame and stigma, the article goes on, "The shame and stigma of divorce has been replaced for some women with empowerment and celebration.05:10-05:17While diamond rings have long been a cultural signifier of marriage, some women are also choosing to mark the end of their matrimonies with a little bling.05:21-05:26Weinstein says, "I'm not proud of getting divorced, but I am proud of putting myself first.05:28-05:34Why shouldn't I celebrate this chapter of my life?" Why am I sharing this article with you?05:36-05:49Because I think if anything sort of personifies how far we have drifted as a culture from God's ideal, I think this kind of nails it.05:50-05:53We are celebrating divorce.05:55-05:56We are celebrating it!06:00-06:04You know, we look at Corinth and we're like, "Man, those people were messed up." Us people are messed up.06:08-06:20Back to Corinth, though, some would say...some in Corinth had said, "Excuse me." Some said, "You know, being single is actually being more devoted to God." And they actually had married people get a divorce.06:21-06:36Like, "Hey, you'll be more devoted to God if you get the divorce." And then there were some that said, "Look, if you want to be devoted to God, you can't have intimate relations with a woman.06:36-06:48So if you want to stay married, just don't have any intimacy." Those were some of the thoughts they had in Corinth, and both of those are wrong.06:50-06:54In the previous passage, again, Paul said, "Staying single is good.06:54-06:56Marriage is good.06:56-06:59And intimacy in marriage should be a regular thing.07:03-07:05But what if I'm not in a biblical marriage?07:09-07:12What I mean is, what if I'm not married to a Christian?07:13-07:29I mean, you could go through the last couple of messages and say, "Oh, that's well and good for two people who love Jesus Christ, have the Word of God as their authority, and Oh yeah, like easy for them.07:31-07:33But what about me, Paul?07:34-07:38My spouse isn't a believer, so what am I supposed to do?07:40-07:41Should I just get a divorce?07:44-07:44What should I do?07:46-09:17Well, in this section we're looking at today, Paul clarifies matters of marriage addressing everyone in the church. Literally everyone in the church and everyone in this church. So this is kind of a good news/bad news thing. We're not having one sermon today. You're like, "All right, we are having four sermons today. All right, four sermons." Because each of these are very specifically addressed to a different group. So first up, matters of marriage, a word for each of you. You can take notes on the other ones if you like, but pay attention into the category you fall. Number one, singles. Singles, a word for you, here it is. Enjoy the gift of singleness or get married. Enjoy the gift of singleness or get married. All right, so if you're here and you're single, if you're streaming and you're single, if for you. All right? If you're single, enjoy that if it's a gift or get married. Look at verse 8. Paul says, "To the unmarried and the widows, I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am." Unmarried for any reason, right? Paul, once again, this is a We're going to go through this quickly.09:18-09:19We talked all about this last week.09:19-09:21Paul said being single is good.09:23-09:23Right?09:23-09:24Being single is good.09:24-09:26Why is he circling back to that?09:26-09:34Because there were Jews in Corinth that said, "You couldn't be holy unless you were married." That was a common Jewish mindset in that day.09:35-09:36You couldn't be holy unless you were married.09:36-09:41Paul's like, "That's not true." All right?09:41-09:43It's a gift for some people.09:45-09:47And Paul listed himself as one of those people.09:48-09:50Paul here very clearly says that he was single.09:51-09:52Like what happened to Paul?09:52-09:52Did he get a divorce?09:53-09:54Did his wife leave him?09:54-09:55Is he a widower?09:56-09:57We have no idea.09:59-10:03We don't know the details, but we know from this verse that he was single.10:06-10:07Okay, so single people, listen.10:10-10:27not denying that there are pressures to being single that married couples do not have. Things like loneliness, things like trying to manage a household yourself.10:28-10:34There are pressures that single people experience that married people don't.10:35-10:39But Paul is reminding the single people again, it is not wrong.10:40-10:44You don't have to feel like you're a second-rate Christian because you're not married.10:44-10:46It is not wrong.10:46-10:51And we're going to see later in this chapter, there are actually some advantages to being single.10:52-10:54All right, but look at verse 9.10:56-11:05He says, "But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry.11:06-11:16For it is better to marry than to burn with passion." So Paul's like, "Okay, you're single, but you have those urges.11:19-11:20You can't control yourself.11:20-11:23You like want to be with a person so badly.11:24-11:27Like you found that being single really isn't for you.11:27-11:28What should I do?11:28-11:29Paul's like, get married.11:30-11:31Get married.11:32-11:35He says it's better to marry than to burn.11:36-11:37Again, we talked about this last week.11:37-11:40If you have the gift of singleness, you aren't burning.11:42-11:47But if you have those desires, God gave the right context to use them.11:48-11:49That's why he says get married.11:50-11:50Get married.11:50-11:54You have the passion, you have the desire, get married.11:57-12:07I've got to say a couple of things about that, unless somebody runs out of here today, runs right across the street to Pantera Bread, and is like, "Look, Pastor Jeff said to get married.12:07-12:10Are you single?" No, okay, "Are you single?" "No, I'm going to find somebody.12:10-12:11Pastor Jeff said to get married.12:12-12:12It's right in the Bible.12:13-12:15I've got to find somebody today." Let's pump the brakes for a second.12:17-12:17All right?12:17-12:21If you're single and you want to get married, I'm going to give you three don'ts here, all right?12:23-12:27He says to get married, yes, but I want to caution you on a couple of things here.12:27-12:28Three don'ts.12:29-12:30Letter A, don't settle.12:32-12:33Don't settle.12:36-12:38I know being single can be hard.12:39-12:40Do you know what's harder than being single?12:42-12:44Being married to the wrong person.12:46-12:54Rushing into a marriage, not really knowing somebody, not understanding they don't really love you, they don't really love the Lord as they should.12:58-13:02It is absolutely heartbreaking how many times I've seen that.13:02-13:14Somebody wanting marriage so badly that the first single person that comes along that looks eligible and there's some kind of interest, we're rushing right into it, and oh, the regret that comes from that.13:15-13:16I've made a huge mistake.13:17-13:18What do I do now?13:20-13:30settle. Letter B, don't look for the right person. Don't look for the right person.13:34-14:46Like, wait a minute, you just said it was bad to be married to the wrong person, now you're telling me not to look for the right person? Yeah, don't look for the right person. You need to focus on trying to be the right person, all right? Try to to be the right person. In the early days of this church when we were really teeny tiny we had a single guy that came to me. He came up to me, he goes, "Pastor Jeff, I think I'm going to go to another church." I'm like, "Oh, why? What's the matter?" He goes, "I love this church so much, but I really want to meet somebody and I just really want to get married." Not a lot of single people in that tiny church. And I said, "That's a terrible way to pick a church. You know, who's got the best single scene? I said, "That's a terrible way to pick a church." I said, "You need to find a church where God is feeding you and where God is using you. You find a church where that's happening, you trust God to do the rest." He's like, "You're right." He goes, "You're right." And it wasn't long after that he did find a single lady, even in her teeny tiny church, and they're married. They since moved away and they have like, I I don't know, 20 or 25 kids, I don't know.14:47-15:03But the point was he was willing to trust God and seeking God first and seeking to be the person worth marrying, not just trying to find the right person for him.15:04-15:06So try to be the right person for somebody else.15:08-15:12Letter C, I read this great advice from a pastor this past week.15:12-15:19He said, "Don't seek marriage, seek love." Don't seek marriage, seek love.15:20-15:24Because ultimately, you're going to marry the person that you fall in love with.15:26-15:27All right?15:27-15:33So when Paul here says, "Look, if you have the desire," he goes, "Don't burn with passion." He goes, "Go get married.15:33-15:41Go get married." But again, let's temper that with, let's not rush into anything.15:43-15:44It's going to bring regret.15:45-15:52God has called you, God has called all of us to be content and thankful in every chapter of life we find ourselves.15:54-15:56So singles, this sermon's for you.15:56-15:58Enjoy the gift of singleness or get married.15:59-15:59All right?16:02-16:04All right, next sermon.16:04-16:06This is for married Christians.16:07-16:09Are you and your spouse both Christians?16:10-16:38a word for you. Stay married. Very simple. Very simple. Look at verse 10. Paul says, "To the married I give this charge, not I, but the Lord. The wife should not separate from her husband." Not separate, obviously, he's talking about divorce. So he's talking here specifically to Christian couples.16:40-16:46We know this because he talks about mixed couples in verse 12.16:46-16:49And by the way, let's get this out of the way.16:50-16:56When we talk about mixed couples, or we talk about intermarrying, that has nothing to do with race.16:58-17:00There's only one race, there's the human race.17:01-17:10So as long as you're marrying another human of the opposite sex, oh, the things I didn't think I'd have to say.17:14-17:15Race doesn't matter.17:15-17:16Okay?17:16-17:21So when we talk about mixed marriages, biblically there is no such thing except for mixed faith.17:22-17:26That's what the Bible forbids, mixed faith marriages.17:26-17:28He talks about them in a second, all right?17:28-17:29I felt like I had to say that.17:35-17:50So Christian couples, Paul says, "I get a word for you," he goes, "not I, but the Lord." Meaning Paul's like, "Look, what I'm about to tell you came straight from the mouth of Jesus Christ Himself." This is the Lord's charge, all right?17:52-17:57The Lord's charge is, Christian couples, no divorce.17:59-18:00Divorce isn't an option.18:00-18:02Divorce isn't a word that's said in your home.18:04-18:10Jesus talked about this so many times, Matthew 5, Matthew 19, Mark 10, Luke 16.18:11-18:15Jesus taught over and over that marriage is meant to be lifelong.18:16-18:16All right?18:18-18:45So we're going to try you out for a year or two, if it's not going to work, we have our exit strategy. That's not how marriage is designed according to our Lord. Marriage is meant to be lifelong. And remember, there were some Corinthians that thought, "Yeah, but if you really want to be devoted to God, you've got to get a divorce." And Paul here is just saying, "You know, God's not on board with that." I mean, just imagine for a second.18:48-19:08for a second if that sentiment was legitimate. Let's just pretend for a second that you could be more devoted to God, you could be more devoted to Jesus if you got a divorce. Do you see what would happen? Everyone that's looking for an out would just use that excuse.19:11-19:13They'd be like, "You know what, sweetheart?19:14-19:27I think we should get a divorce because I just want to love Jesus more." Right?19:27-19:28It'd start a new phrase.19:28-19:36It would be, "It's not you, it's Him." Right?19:36-19:37But that was the mindset they had.19:37-19:38And Paul's like, "No, no, no, no.19:40-19:42The words of our Lord are quite clear.19:43-19:52Don't get a divorce." But then you have the person that's like, "Oh, Paul, I wish you would have wrote this letter two weeks ago, because I did buy it.19:52-19:53You know what?19:53-20:00Yeah, we are both believers, but I bought into the idea that getting a divorce would benefit my walk.20:00-20:05So what do you do if you are both Christians and you did get a divorce?20:05-20:09What do you do about that?" Well, look at verse 11.20:09-20:18He says, "But if she does get a divorce, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband.20:21-20:28And the husband should not divorce his wife." Okay, so if you're like, "You know what?20:28-20:33I did get the divorce, and now looking back, we are both believers.20:33-20:37I shouldn't have done that." Paul goes, "Okay, well now you have two choices.20:37-20:58You're either unmarried the rest of your life, or go back to your husband and get back on track." Like, "I'm not sure that's possible." Well, if you're both Christians, forgiveness and healing and reconciliation should not be foreign concepts to you.21:01-21:04So if you and your spouse are both Christians, stay married.21:06-21:07All right?21:07-21:11And as we saw last week, verse 3, married Christian couples, pay your debt.21:13-21:13All right?21:14-21:16I know that's the sermon that always gets applied.21:16-21:20I know the nursery is going to be restocked in about nine months.21:21-21:21I know.21:24-21:25So married Christians.21:26-21:26All right.21:27-21:33This is where things get even more difficult.21:35-21:39This is addressed to those of you who are married to a non-Christian.21:39-21:44And I know there are some people in this church that are married to a non-Christian.21:46-21:49But this non-Christian wants to stay married.21:49-22:02Okay, you're like, "Yeah, my husband's not a believer, or my wife's not a believer, and Like, she's okay with me being a believer, and she's okay with me going to church, and she wants to stay married, so what do I do?22:02-22:03What do I do here?22:06-22:11God says, "Stay married." Stay married.22:14-22:21You know, back in, look at the, back in chapter 6 verse 15, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago.22:21-22:32Paul says, talking about those who were being sexually immoral with the cult prostitutes, he says, "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?22:33-22:37Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute?22:38-23:01Never." You see, there would have been some that heard this principle like, "Okay, so me physically being with a prostitute is like defiling for me, so what about me physically being with a non-Christian spouse?23:02-23:13Well, me being intimate, I mean, isn't it the same principle that I am defiling my body because I'm in this mixed marriage?23:14-23:16We have different faiths?23:18-23:20That's the question on the table.23:23-23:32Regarding mixed marriages, meaning one's a believer and one's not, you're like, "What do you do?" Well, first of all, it's forbidden, single people.23:34-23:42Second Corinthians 6.14, if you're single, listen, if you're single, you are not to get married to a non-Christian.23:45-23:46Corinthians 6.14.23:48-23:50You are not to get married to a non-Christian if you're single.23:52-23:54If you can prevent this, you should prevent this.23:55-24:03That people think, "Well, I'm going to get married to the person and I'll save them, and I'm going to be such a good influence on them," and it usually works the other way.24:07-24:12So if you're single, you are not to marry a non-Christian.24:13-24:23So all right, now with that out of the way, the question is, "Well, what if we were married as non-Christians and I got saved and he didn't get saved?" Or vice versa, man.24:23-24:26You're like, "Well, I got saved and my wife didn't get saved.24:26-24:29What do we do?" Well, look at verse 12.24:29-24:54He says, "To the rest I say, 'I, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her." By the way, when he says here, "I, not the Lord," you know what some people do with that, right?24:55-25:11They're like, "Oh, well, this is just Paul's opinion." So we can sort of disregard this section because Paul here, I mean, he's saying that this is just his opinion, and that's not what he's saying at all.25:13-25:29Back in verse 10, he was saying, "I'm quoting Jesus here." Now in verse 12, he's saying, "This is also from the Lord, but this isn't a direct quote from Jesus, do you see?" He's not saying this is uninspired.25:30-26:06He's just saying, "Before I was directly quoting from the ministry of Jesus, and now this is new revelation from God. That's all he's saying. So what if I'm married to a non-Christian and he wants to stay married? Paul says, "You don't get a divorce, you stay married. That's what you do." Like, really? Verse 13, "If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him." Oh yeah, that question, being with this non-Christian make me unholy?26:06-26:10Like isn't it the same principle as being with the prostitutes?26:11-26:13No, not at all.26:14-26:15Because look at verse 14.26:17-26:26For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband.26:29-26:47You see, when one of you is saved and your spouse is not, it's not that the Christian is made unholy in the eyes of God, it's the unsaved person is made holy.26:52-26:53I want to be clear here.26:54-27:01That does not mean that the unbelieving spouse is saved because they're spouses.27:01-27:03That is not what that means.27:03-27:06The Bible is crystal clear on salvation.27:06-27:09Salvation is an individual transaction.27:10-27:14You can't get saved because of somebody else.27:14-27:18Biblically, you have to make the choice to turn from your sin.27:19-27:20You have to make the choice to repent.27:21-27:27You have to make the choice that you are going to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.27:28-27:35It doesn't matter how good of a Christian your grandmama was, or your mama, or your spouse.27:35-27:36It doesn't matter.27:37-27:38You're not saved.27:38-27:40It's not like group raid here, all right?27:42-27:46You're saved by you making the choice.27:47-27:49You're like, all right, so what's he talking about here?27:50-27:57Well, it's a big fancy theological term that's known as matrimonial sanctification.27:58-28:01Impress your friends, drop that in conversation this week.28:02-28:03Do you have a water cooler at your workplace?28:03-28:04Drop that.28:05-28:08Yes, we were talking about matrimonial sanctification at church.28:10-28:12And they're like, "Oh, what is that?" And you'll tell them.28:13-28:18Well, in God's eyes, if one spouse is saved, there's blessing for everyone in the house.28:20-28:22I mean, think about it this way.28:25-28:26Think about it this way.28:26-28:36Imagine this married couple, you have this married couple, and the wife's parents die, and they leave her an inheritance.28:39-28:40They leave her a speedboat.28:42-28:44Now husbands, are you going to benefit from this inheritance?28:48-28:48No?28:49-28:50All right, let me try something else.28:52-28:55Her parents left her a Harley Davidson.28:56-28:58Husbands, are you going to benefit from this inheritance?29:00-29:02Yeah, some of you.29:02-29:03All right, let me try this again.29:06-29:08Her parents left her a monster truck.29:08-29:11Husbands, are you going to benefit from this inheritance?29:12-29:15Okay, this is really going to help for the second service.29:15-29:17Do you see the point?29:17-29:18You got the inheritance.29:19-29:26You know, you're driving grave digger down the road, but you had nothing to do with that, right?29:27-29:31You were blessed just because your wife received an inheritance.29:31-29:33It's the same principle at play here.29:34-29:35You're blessed by association.29:37-29:43In the same way, in marriage, two become one, and when God blesses one, the other gets blessed.29:43-29:48I mean, it's not salvation, but it's better than two pagans being married to each other.29:49-29:49Right?29:49-30:05Think of the blessing that comes to the non-Christian spouse when the Christian spouse is exhibiting the fruit of the Holy Spirit, when the Christian spouse is showing humility and love and service and selflessness.30:05-30:09And how could you not be blessed being in a house like that?30:13-30:14That's what he's talking about.30:16-30:23Oh, and regarding the salvation piece, look, nobody can deny the influence the believing spouse has.30:23-30:32I've heard the story so many times of people getting saved because of the witness that their Christian spouse has had.30:34-30:39So if you're in this situation, if your spouse is unsaved, God wants to reach them through you.30:41-30:43So let him see Christ in you.30:45-30:48And you're like, "Well, that's well and good, but what if we have kids, right?30:48-30:53I mean, I'm saved, he's not.30:53-30:59Does that make our kids like half pagan?" No, no, it really doesn't.30:59-31:01Look at the rest of verse 14.31:02-31:16Paul says, "Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy." See, even if you have kids with a non-Christian, your kids are also made holy through that.31:16-31:16Same principle.31:17-31:23Your kids are also blessed through that because God sees your marriage as holy, so He's going to see your kids as holy.31:24-31:30So if you're married to a non-Christian who wants to stay married, God's going to bless the family.31:31-31:34Stay married if they want to stay.31:36-31:38All right, one more.31:39-31:42One more group we didn't cover, and that's the last one here.31:43-31:48Let's say someone is married to a non-Christian, and that non-Christian is like, "I want out.31:49-31:55Like look, I didn't sign up for all this Jesus stuff, all this Bible study stuff.31:55-31:57I didn't sign up for all this church stuff.31:58-31:58I'm not interested.31:59-32:00I'm not a religious person.32:01-32:05I want out." So what do you do when you're married to a non-Christian who wants to leave?32:05-32:07The answer is, let them go.32:09-32:10Let them go.32:14-32:15Look at verse 15.32:15-32:33He says, "But if the unbelieving partner separates," that's divorce, look what he says, "let it be so." If the non-Christian spouse initiates a divorce, Paul says they can go.32:37-32:38And I know the reaction.32:38-32:39You're like, "Wait, wait.32:39-32:40Well, that means I'm stuck.32:41-32:49You know, I wanted to save this marriage, and they divorced me, and now I can never get remarried again because they left me.32:49-32:53So I'm stuck, right?" Paul doesn't say that.32:56-32:57Paul doesn't say that.32:57-33:04Paul was clear on situations where you had to be remaining unmarried.33:04-33:05We saw that in verse 11.33:06-33:11He was clear in those situations, and he could have said that here, but he didn't.33:13-33:14You can remarry.33:14-33:22If you are married to a non-Christian that abandons you, initiates a divorce, and leaves you, you can remarry.33:23-33:24Look at the rest of verse 15.33:25-33:30He says, "In such cases, the brother or sister is not enslaved." God has called you to peace.33:31-33:32Not enslaved.33:33-33:34Like, not enslaved to what?33:35-33:37He's talking about free from being bound to the marriage.33:38-33:39That's what he's talking about.33:41-33:53See Romans 7, 2 says, "For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives." That's what he's talking about here in 1 Corinthians 7.33:53-33:55That's the bound to the marriage.33:55-33:57He goes, "You're not enslaved.33:57-33:58You're not bound anymore.34:01-34:19You're no longer bound to the marriage." Now look, I know some sermons are easier to preach than others, and divorce is a very touchy subjects.34:26-34:27It's always painful.34:28-34:29It always brings regret and hurt.34:30-34:30I know that.34:33-34:40So I want to take a moment and I want to be clear on my best understanding on the subject biblically.34:42-34:43All right?34:44-34:46I don't want there to be any ambiguity.34:47-34:48I want to be clear.34:48-35:00I believe that there is only one cause for divorce biblically, and that is hardness of heart.35:04-35:05Like, why do I think that?35:05-35:08Well, Jesus was asked about divorce in Matthew 19, eight.35:09-35:09This is what he said.35:10-35:24He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart, Moses allowed you to divorce." Jesus said divorce was allowed through Moses, through the law, because of hardness of heart.35:25-35:27Again divorce is allowed, not commanded.35:30-35:30Right?35:31-35:32Allowed not commanded.35:34-35:38But the question is, how do you know when someone is hard hearted?35:40-35:43Towards their spouse or towards their marriage, right?35:45-35:46Kind of a hard thing to gauge, isn't it?35:47-35:52Well Jesus said, "I can divorce you if you're hard-hearted." Well you seem hard-hearted to me, I'm getting divorced.35:52-35:53How do you know?35:54-36:07Well biblically there are two ways that hard-heartedness manifests, and both begin with the letter A. It's affair and abandonment.36:11-36:12Jesus spoke on a fair.36:13-36:30Matthew 19, 9, Jesus says, "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife except for sexual immorality and marries another commits adultery." Now again, divorce is allowed, but not commanded.36:30-36:39Understand this, when this happens in a marriage, that doesn't mean you are required to get a divorce.36:39-36:43I can tell you so many stories of marriages where this did happen.36:43-36:51And there was much repentance and seeking the Lord, and marriages are on track better than they were on their honeymoon.36:55-37:05But when someone is committed to having relations with people outside the marriage, Jesus says that's evidence of hard-heartedness.37:06-37:08Moses allowed for divorce for that.37:08-37:17Here, Paul is addressing the other manifestation of hard-heartedness, and that's abandonment.37:18-37:22That if your non-Christian spouse divorces you, abandons you, you are free.37:24-37:27That's how you know your spouse is hard-hearted.37:29-37:35When they are willing to engage in relations with someone else, they're hard-hearted towards you.37:35-37:41Or when they're like, "I'm fine to just walk away from this marriage.37:41-37:43I'm fine to walk away from our vows.37:43-37:50I'm fine to walk away from that." Those are evidences of hard-heartedness.37:54-37:57And Jesus says abandonment is like adultery.37:57-37:59I'm sorry, Paul says abandonment here is like adultery.38:00-38:01You are called to peace.38:05-38:10You are not called to fighting a non-Christian to stay in a marriage that they are committed to getting out of.38:12-38:13One more verse.38:15-38:20Paul says, "For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband?38:21-38:31Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?" You know, people are really divided on what this verse means.38:35-38:41Some people think this verse means, "Well, you don't know if you're going to save your spouse, so let them go.38:41-38:43I mean, you have no guarantees, just let them go.38:44-38:56There's no promises are going to come to Christ, if they say let them go." That's what some people think, but other people think this means, "No, no, no, you might be the one that God uses to save them, so you should try to save your marriage at any cost.38:59-39:00I lean towards the latter.39:04-39:05There's no guarantees either way.39:05-39:06You don't know.39:08-39:10You don't know what God's doing.39:13-39:18So you better be sure that you did all you could to save the marriage.39:20-39:23I personally believe that this verse pumps the brakes.39:26-39:38This verse, as one person I read this past week said, this verse tempers any tendency that just easily give up on the marriage.39:41-39:45Because some people are just so quick to run to divorce as like option one.39:47-39:56Again, if things are hard now, how do you know that God isn't using you to reach your spouse?39:58-40:00Our worship team would make their way back up front.40:07-40:16Paul continues, and I think he's doubling down on some of these things because some of it's hard to accept and some of it's hard to hear.40:17-40:20But again, Paul reminds us that singleness is God's gift for some.40:23-40:25Marriage is God's gift for the rest.40:28-40:30One of these four sermons applies to you.40:32-40:37So whichever it is, go after it with the reverence and with the sacredness that God has called you to.40:38-40:39Let's pray.40:41-40:52Father in heaven, we're asking today, Father, that your Holy Spirit be at work in our hearts.40:54-41:03When we talk about singleness and divorce and all these things, it's such an emotional subject because there are people here that have been deeply wounded by these things.41:06-41:12And we by no means, Father, wanna kick someone when they're down or rub salt on the wound.41:12-41:15We just, we wanna take an honest look at what your word has to say.41:17-41:19Father, we thank you for your grace.41:19-41:21We thank you that you are the God of miracles.41:21-41:35We thank you, God, that no matter how badly things might have gotten in marriage, whether it was able to be saved or not, God, there's always hope with you.41:35-41:37There's always healing with you.41:39-41:40That's why we come to you.41:40-41:51Father, I pray for all of us that we would take a hard look at the place you have us right now, because there's something in here for each one of us.41:55-41:59And that we would go after it, trusting you to always do what you promised.42:00-42:02We pray in Jesus' name, amen. Small Group DiscussionRead 1 Corinthians 7:8-16What was your big take-away from this passage / message?Explain 1 Cor 7:14. How is the nonChristian spouse made holy because of a Christian spouse? What does that mean?If you are married to a nonChristian who wants out of the marriage (1 Cor 7:15), how do you know when to grant their divorce (when to stop trying to save the marriage, asking for counseling, etc)?Why should you allow a nonChristian to divorce and leave a Christian (v15)? Is the believing spouse free to remarry? Why or why not? BreakoutPray for one another.

Introduction: Genesis 2:24 - Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Enjoying Your Gift from God. (1 Corinthians 7:1-7) Married? Enjoy God's Gift for MARRIAGE. (1 Cor 7:3-5) 3 Laws of Marital Intimacy: The Law of DEBT. (1 Cor 7:3) The Law of OWNERSHIP. (1 Cor 7:4) The Law of HIATUS. (1 Cor 7:5) Single? Enjoy God's Gift of SINGLENESS. (1 Cor 7:6-7) Matthew 19:10-12 – The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANKHint: Highlight blanks above for answers! AUDIO TRANSCRIPT 00:36-00:41Open up those Bibles to 1 Corinthians 7.00:43-00:51And as we said last week, it's going to continue for the next few weeks because we go where the text goes.00:54-01:00And today we're going to be talking about the relationship between a man and his wife.01:03-01:44discretion advised. We are going to be direct, but you know some pastors want to be like edgy by kind of pushing the envelope there and that's I don't think that's cool, but I do think we need to teach the Bible straightforwardly. So we are going to be direct but not explicit, okay? So whether you're sitting here or streaming this from home, parents you decide. If you saw last week's message that would be a good gauge as to whether or not your kids should hear this one.01:44-02:01But again I'll remind you that somebody's talking to your kids about this. I think you should really consider you know whether it's time for them to hear this from God, what He says about these matters.02:02-02:17Alright, so with that said, let's just bow our heads. I'm going to ask that you would please take a moment and pray for me to be faithful to clearly communicate what God said and I will pray for you to receive what it is that this passage teaches today. Let's pray.02:23-02:28Father in heaven, we are once again turning to Your Word for wisdom.02:33-02:38And we're dealing with what is going to be for many here a sensitive subject.02:38-03:05And I pray, Father, against distractions, and I also pray that our hearts and minds are open to what You actually say in Your Word. Not our opinion or not what we think your word might say about these matters, but to examine what it is that you have said, and that we would be faithful to apply.03:08-03:53Come meet us now, Lord, through the proclamation of your word, we pray in Jesus' name, and all of God's people said, "Amen." Amen. Many years ago, I was leading Bible study the prison, and one man raised his hand. He said, "I have a question. I have a question about what happens when we die." Well, I was ready for this. You should have heard. You should have heard the sermon. It's probably the best sermon I ever gave. It was just both barrels, and I explained to him, "Okay, first of all, let me explain how death came into the world. We went through Genesis chapter 3. Death We need Jesus Christ.03:54-03:56Jesus died on the cross to take our sin away.03:56-03:59He rose from the dead to give us eternal life.03:59-04:00We all need the gospel.04:00-04:05And if you've received Christ, when you die, the Bible says you are in the presence of the Lord.04:05-04:10Okay, and someday he is going to come and he's going to take his people to be with him.04:10-04:12John chapter 14, we talked about the rapture.04:13-04:17But if you have not received Christ, I talked about the tribulation that's coming after the rapture.04:18-04:21There's seven years of just hell on earth.04:21-04:26and then Christ returns, and I talked about all the millennial kingdom, right?04:26-04:41And then after the kingdom, there's the great white throne judgment, and at that point, you know, if you die and you're not in Christ, you do go to a place of suffering, Luke 16, but then you're thrown into the lake of fire at the great white throne judgment, and you should have heard it.04:41-04:44It was comprehensive.04:47-04:49So I got done, it was about 20 minutes.04:50-04:57I got done and I said, "So, does that answer your question?" He stared at me blankly.04:59-05:01And he goes, "No."05:02-05:03(congregation laughing)05:04-05:25I said, "Why not?" He goes, "I just wanted to know "if we become angels when we die." And I said, "No." He goes, "Okay, thanks." And I learned that day to answer the question that's being asked.05:27-05:30Well, the Corinthians, they had a lot of questions.05:31-05:35They had a lot of questions about marriage, about idols, about women in church, about the Lord's Supper.05:36-05:38Look at chapter 7 verse 1.05:39-05:45Paul says, "Now concerning the matters about which you wrote," stop there, we're entering a new section, okay?05:45-05:49He talked about the church unified, chapters 1-4.05:50-05:55He talked about the church purified, chapters 5-6.05:56-05:58And now you can see there's a shift.05:59-06:06He says, "You sent me questions and I'm going to give you answers now to the questions that you sent me." Do you see that?06:07-06:09And first up, marriage.06:12-06:13You're going to be shocked.06:13-06:14I'm glad you're sitting down.06:15-06:17But the Corinthians had a lot of problems when it came to marriage.06:20-06:28But you know, the problems that we bring into marriage are our own doing, because the Bible was clear on marriage.06:30-06:34Genesis 2.24, this is the most important verse in the Bible about marriage.06:34-06:38I know this because when asked, this is the verse that Jesus quoted.06:39-06:42When writing about marriage, this was the verse that Paul kept quoting.06:42-06:55The most important verse in the Bible about marriage says, "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." It's clear.06:55-07:00You leave, you join to your wife, and then the two become one.07:02-07:10Jesus was asked about marriage, divorce, all these matters, Matthew 19, we're going to talk about this later, but Jesus made, it was very clear.07:11-07:15Jesus said marriage is between a man and a woman.07:15-07:19Jesus said in a marriage, it's two people that are brought together by God.07:19-07:24Jesus said it's two becoming one, and He said it's meant to be unbroken.07:24-07:25That's God's design.07:28-07:32Bible's clear about marriage.07:32-07:38But in Paul's day, the Corinthian culture, there were basically four different ways to get married.07:38-07:51I'm just gonna, I don't usually like to preach my homework, But this might be helpful to give us some context as we go through this section, because there are a lot of ways that people got married in that day, all right?07:52-07:54So one way was for slaves.07:54-07:56Slaves weren't considered people, they were considered property.07:57-08:02So for slaves, the owner had the right to just pronounce them married.08:02-08:08If there were two slaves that wanted to get married, it's like, okay, you two are married, so you go stay over there or whatever.08:09-08:09And that was it.08:11-08:14There was also, in that day, common law marriage.08:14-08:20People that were living together unmarried for a year were considered married at that point.08:21-08:23A third way is a father selling his daughter.08:26-08:30And then the fourth way was the sort of the official Roman way.08:32-08:37Interestingly, it's through the Roman customs where we get our customs for marriage.08:37-08:38Did you know that?08:39-08:44from veil to flowers to vows to ring to cake, all came from the Roman culture.08:47-08:49So here's the point of all that.08:50-08:57In this section, Paul is teaching the sacredness of marriage no matter how you got there.08:57-09:07Okay, because there's going to be a lot of people that could raise objections, "But I was married this way, but I..." Paul's like, "However you got there, we're dealing with from here forward.09:08-09:10Let's talk about the sacredness of marriage.09:12-09:14They were a culture that had a high divorce rate.09:16-09:28They were a culture that had homosexuality, a culture of affairs, a culture of, believe it or not, feminists, and a culture of - we talked about this recently - prostitution.09:30-09:32So it's a culture a lot like ours.09:32-10:03There's nothing really new here as far as the kind of sin that they had to deal with with the same stuff. So the question is, "Well, what about sex and marriage?" Well, again, you're going to be shocked, and I'm glad you're sitting down, but the Corinthians had something else that they were divisive over, and that is this. Should you get married, or should you be single?10:06-10:08Which is the godly path?10:09-10:10That's the issue on the table here.10:11-10:13Which is the godly path, married or single?10:14-10:20Because some people said that righteousness is everybody must get married.10:21-10:22That was the Jewish mindset, by the way.10:23-10:24Everybody must get married.10:24-10:27You're not really fully righteous unless you're married.10:27-10:30In fact, you couldn't be a member of the Sanhedrin unless you were married.10:31-10:38So the Jews especially said, "Look, what's right is everybody has to get married." But then there's the other camp.10:40-10:42And the other camp said, "No, no, no, no.10:42-10:43No one should get married.10:43-10:45I mean, have you been paying attention?10:46-10:48Sexual sin is completely out of control.10:49-10:50Marriage is hard.10:50-10:57So being single and never touching a woman, that's the godly way.10:57-11:00In fact, you want to be godly.11:00-11:03If you're married and you want this godly path, you're just going to have to get out of your marriage.11:04-11:05Both of you be single.11:06-11:07That is more spiritual.11:08-11:09That is more devoted to God.11:09-11:13If you're single, you are more devoted to God.11:13-11:17And you know, there's people today that still hold that mindset, like in the Catholic church.11:17-11:18All right?11:18-11:19Priests don't get married.11:19-11:20Nuns don't get married.11:20-11:20Why?11:20-11:24Because you're devoted to God, and you can't really be devoted to God if you're married.11:27-11:30Well, what does the Bible say about that?11:31-11:35Well, let's see how Paul answers this under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.11:35-11:36Look at verse 1 again.11:36-11:48"Now, concerning the matters about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman." Okay, stop there.11:48-11:50He goes, okay, first of all, it's good.11:51-11:53He didn't say it's the only good.11:54-11:54Okay?11:55-11:59Paul's not saying singleness is better than marriage.11:59-12:01He's not saying it's worse than marriage.12:01-12:09All he's saying in verse 1 is, "It's not wrong to be single." It is a fine option if you're single.12:11-12:12But there's another option.12:13-12:13Look at verse 2.12:14-12:36He says, "But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband." So Paul says, "The other option, which is marriage, is good too." I mean we saw this, right?12:36-12:42Chapters 5 and 6, there was so much sexual immorality in the church.12:42-12:44They tolerated sexual sin.12:44-12:46They excused sexual sin.12:46-12:48There was no sacredness for marriage.12:48-12:49Huge problem.12:49-12:56So you see, in Corinth and here, it is hard to be pure because of temptation.12:57-12:58That's what Paul is teaching here.12:59-13:04Because there are so many ways to sin sexually.13:08-13:14So Paul here says, because of the temptation to sexual immorality, get a spouse.13:16-13:28Notice he says, "Get your own spouse." design. It's one man for one woman and that one woman for that one man. That is how God designed it. Get your own.13:30-14:11So Paul is saying physical desires are natural and should be enjoyed the way God designed them to be enjoyed. All right? So we're gonna play a quick game here. We're gonna play a game called "Which is Good?" I'm gonna give you a list of two options and you're gonna shout out which is good. You ready for this? You ready? Come on, don't lay an egg here. I need you. I need you. I'll start over. I mean I'll start way over at the beginning. We'll bring the worship team up. We'll start the whole thing over. All right, so you You ready to shout it out?14:11-14:13Which is good, country music or rock music?14:13-14:14Rock.14:16-14:18The answer is both.14:20-14:21All right, which is good?14:22-14:22You ready?14:22-14:23Try again.14:23-14:24I'm gonna give you another chance.14:25-14:26Which is good, pancakes or waffles?14:27-14:28Both.14:28-14:31Both are good, okay?14:32-14:35All right, I think some of you are getting the hang of it.14:35-14:36Let's try one more.14:37-14:39Which is good, baseball or football?14:41-14:42(congregation exclaims)14:49-14:50I'm sorry, the answer is both.14:52-14:53All right, one more, you ready?14:55-14:57Which is good, being single or being married?14:58-14:58Both.14:59-14:59Both.15:02-15:02Both.15:04-15:05The answer's both.15:08-15:12Paul says here - look, if you don't get that, you're going to miss the whole sermon, so you've got to get this.15:12-15:17Paul says here in this passage, look, what you have, church, you have two good options.15:19-15:22Okay? You have two good gifts from God.15:22-15:24You can't have them both at the same time, by the way.15:24-15:26I think I don't have to explain that.15:27-15:29But you have two good options, two good gifts of God.15:30-15:31Single is good.15:32-15:34And married is good.15:35-15:37That's Paul's point here in these first two verses.15:37-16:13expounds on each. So on your outline, draw some things down here. Enjoying your gift from God. Number one, married. Are you married? Are you married? Well, enjoy God's gift for marriage. Okay, now Paul here starts with marriage because it's the norm. Most people are married. Again, one's not better or worse. Most people are married, so that's where he And again in Corinth, many thought you had greater devotion to God if you avoided physical relations.16:14-16:14But there's a problem.16:15-16:22There are some people that thought you have greater devotion to God by avoiding physical relations even if you're married.16:25-16:37And all the men said, "What?" And it's good to not touch a woman even if you're married, and especially if she's not a believer, or vice versa.16:37-16:47If your husband's not a believer, they believe that, look, if you're married to a non-believer, you definitely should not be engaging in any kind of relationship that way.16:48-16:50That was what the people thought.16:51-16:53So here in these verses, Paul's saying, look, are you married?16:53-16:58Then you should enjoy regular times of intimacy.17:01-17:04You should enjoy regular times of intimacy.17:05-17:20And you're like, "Oh, isn't that obvious?" And the answer is it must not be because God spent some time here in His Word explaining some things.17:21-17:22So I don't think it is so obvious.17:24-17:35So what we have here are three laws, three principles for married couples regarding God's design for healthy marital relations, okay?17:37-17:42So we're just gonna break these down by calling them the three laws of marital intimacy.17:43-17:45The three laws of marital intimacy.17:48-17:51First of all, letter A, let's talk about the law of debt.17:52-18:00If you're married, if you're married, You should be enjoying your spouse physically.18:01-18:03And here's the three guidelines, three laws for that.18:03-18:05The first one, the law of debt.18:05-18:06Look at verse three.18:07-18:22He says, "The husband should give to his wife "her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband." Stop there, that's the law of debt.18:22-18:23You're like, why do you say debt?18:23-18:26Because do you know in the Greek, it's literally the debt.18:26-18:30literally in the Greek, it says the husband should give the wife the debt.18:31-18:34And the wife should give her husband the debt.18:34-18:36That's what it says.18:37-18:47Also in the Greek, it's a continuous verb, meaning, Paul's saying husbands and wives, you should continuously be paying a debt to one another physically.18:50-18:57Now listen, the physical part of your marriage is not the most important part of your marriage.19:00-19:06But, it is a very important part of your marriage.19:08-19:09Okay, I'm gonna say that again.19:09-19:13I don't know if I've ever been so careful about the way I worded things in a sermon.19:15-19:20Because I don't want anybody to misunderstand, and I know there's a lot of things that can be easily misunderstood here, so I'm gonna say that again.19:21-19:27The physical part of your marriage is not the most important thing, but it is a very important thing.19:28-19:42And Paul here says, "You owe it to your spouse to allow your spouse to enjoy this." Listen, this is a very sensitive subject.19:42-19:43I know that.19:43-19:46Because there are people that have endured abuse.19:47-19:50There are people who are emotionally scarred.19:50-19:52There are people that have health issues.19:52-20:01And these things make regular, normal relations more difficult.20:06-20:08It might require extra work.20:08-20:12It might require coming to see one of our pastors for counseling.20:12-20:14We can help you with that.20:14-20:17If this is an issue in your marriage, we can help you.20:22-20:24But the principle here is very clear.20:26-20:29If you're married, you are expected to go after this.20:32-20:39God's design is that husbands and wives enjoy meeting each other's needs.20:44-20:59There's a book in the Bible all about that, by the way, right? Song of Solomon. That's what And I know there's some scholars that are like, "The Song of Solomon, you know what the Song of Solomon is about, Pastor Taylor?20:59-21:00You know what it's about.21:00-21:08The Song of Solomon is about the love relationship between Jesus and the church." Spoken like someone who never read the Song of Solomon.21:09-21:10It's not about that.21:12-22:19It is about a couple enjoying the physical aspect of their relationship, their love for another and all its expressions of that love, that's what it's about. God wants you to enjoy each other. I've heard stories of couples that only come together for a physical relationship when it's time to procreate, almost like it's some business exchange. And look, if that happens. If that happens, awesome, awesome. We'll always make room in the nursery. But to reduce the purpose of that just for procreation is still missing the point. The purpose of sex in marriage is intimacy. That's the purpose. It's not just a physical act. It's an act that strengthens love and is an act that sustains love.22:21-22:30But I know, listen, somebody can read this verse, "The husband should give to his wife the debt." Likewise, the wife give to her husband the debt.22:30-22:34Somebody can look at this verse and say, "That sounds so violating.22:36-22:38You mean to tell me…." Is that what you're saying?22:39-22:47I can't… What a patriarchal, male chauvinist church this is, that you're telling me that I can be forced to pay the debt.22:48-22:48Right?22:48-22:49Is that what you're saying?22:50-22:51Not even close.22:53-22:58And I would say that if that's your takeaway, then all due respect, you are completely reading the verse wrong.23:02-23:02Listen closely.23:03-23:10He's not saying that we go into our marriage relationship saying, "You owe me!" No, no, no, no.23:12-23:13Not lording it over.23:14-23:20It's not "You owe me!" It's the mindset of "I owe you." It's submission.23:23-23:26Notice he says to give the debt.23:26-23:27He doesn't say take the debt.23:27-23:28Do you notice that?23:29-23:32He doesn't say, "Husbands, go take what she owes you.23:32-23:35Wives, go take what he owes you." He doesn't say that.23:36-23:43He says in mutual submission, you have to give what you owe your spouse.23:45-23:46That's what he says.23:47-23:52A healthy marriage always focuses on the other person's needs.23:55-23:59And that applies also specifically here to intimacy.24:01-24:02That's what we're saying.24:05-24:09Give your wife, give to her what you owe her.24:10-24:12Wives, give to husbands what you owe him.24:12-24:13It's mutual submission.24:16-24:16All right?24:16-24:17So that's the law of debt.24:18-24:20Secondly, we have letter B, the law of ownership.24:22-24:23Law of ownership, look at verse 4.24:24-24:32And he goes on, "For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does.24:32-24:40Likewise, the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does." Stop there.24:40-24:43Again, please do not read it wrongly.24:43-24:48Don't go through this and totally miss what he's saying because it would be easy to do.24:48-24:52This is not a pass for abuse.24:54-25:05This is, listen, this verse is not allowing for any kind of situation where someone is being forced into something in any way.25:06-25:08It is not saying that whatsoever.25:08-25:19You're like, "Well, what is it saying then?" In marriage, listen, when you make the decision to marry someone, you have released the authority of your body to your spouse.25:20-25:22And again, in the Greek, that's continual.25:23-25:26What you have in marriage is an exclusive claim.25:27-25:34It's saying no one else owns my body the way that my spouse does, and that includes me.25:36-25:37That's what he's saying.25:38-25:43He's speaking again of a mutual love and selflessness.25:44-25:45That's what he's talking about.25:47-25:55He's talking about a mentality of a husband going before his wife and saying, "Hey, hey, this is all yours.25:57-26:04This is all yours." And then the wife in turn turns to her husband and says, "Yeah, and you know what, baby?26:05-26:06This is all yours.26:11-26:14So have fun." That's what he's saying.26:18-26:20There's the law of death, there's the law of ownership.26:21-26:23Letter C, there's the law of hiatus.26:24-26:25The law of hiatus.26:26-26:27Look at verse 5.26:30-26:55He says, "Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time that that you may devote yourselves to prayer, but then come together again so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control." The law of hiatus.26:57-26:59Again, he goes, "Stop depriving.26:59-27:07Stop depriving." Again, the Corinthian culture, "Oh, it's holy to deprive my spouse." No, he goes, "It's not holy.27:08-27:08It's just not.27:09-27:14Do not deprive each other, husbands and wives, do not deprive each other.27:15-27:16He says there is an exception.27:18-27:19There are rules for hiatus.27:22-27:23There are rules for hiatus, right?27:24-27:28First part of the rule, number one, is agree, right?27:29-27:30Agree.27:32-27:33That means consent.27:33-27:38That means it's not just one person making the decision.27:41-27:43It's not the wife saying, "You know what, honey?27:43-27:50I've really been thinking about this, and I decided we're taking a hiatus." And the husband's like, "Wait, what?27:51-27:52That's not how it works.27:52-28:00There has to be an agreement on that, all right?" And also number two, it says for a limited time.28:02-28:29a limited time. It's temporary. Again, that time should be agreed upon. You're like, "All right, well, why are we taking a break?" Well, he says very specifically, "If you two decide to take a break for a time from having normal relations, it should be for prayer." And he's not talking about prayer in general. I think he's talking about praying for something specific.28:31-28:43Maybe there's something in your life that is so burdening, so distracting, that you probably can't even enjoy intimacy in that season.28:43-28:45Do you know what I'm talking about?28:46-28:58Maybe you have a child that is really sick and in the hospital and like, "I can't." Obviously neither of us are in the mood for this right now.28:58-28:58We need to pray.29:01-29:33there's the looming threat of a job loss and the stress that comes with, you know, what am I going to do to provide for my family? And you know what, sweetheart, I think we should take a break from this for a season and focus on praying for God's provision in this way. But you agree upon it and you set the boundary of time, but when you're like, man, I just can't get into it as I should, then you take a hiatus, you agree to pray.29:33-29:53But Paul says, "Then, then you have to come together again," he says, "so that you don't get tempted." But the first part of that verse says, "Do not deprive each other.29:55-29:57Stop depriving each other.30:03-30:08Husbands and wives, you cannot use sex to manipulate.30:11-30:19Or more accurately, you can't withhold sex to coerce or punish the other person.30:21-30:35Listen, when you do that, when you use that as coercion or punishment, what you're doing ultimately is only hurting your marriage.30:36-30:37That's what you're doing.30:39-30:42Notice he says, "Come together again." Why?30:42-30:43Why should we come together again?30:44-31:12may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. In other words, closing the kitchen makes you a partner of Satan. All right? Because the urge is still there, and now all of a sudden the person who is supposed to satisfy me absolutely refuses to do that.31:13-31:15And then what happens?31:21-31:23Bitterness is resentment.31:25-31:27Then the evil thoughts start to creep in, right?31:29-31:32I'm so sick of not having my needs met.31:32-31:35I'm so sick of the bedroom being so cold.31:37-31:39And eventually that leads to adultery.31:42-31:55to physical, you find somebody that's scratching the itch that you have, whether it is that emotional itch for affection, whether it's a physical itch.31:58-32:20And then it's justified because, and I've heard it hundreds of times over my ministry, justified because I'm in a loveless marriage." You know, marriages struggle and ultimately individuals walks with Christ struggle because they're so frustrated physically.32:21-32:29It's like I have this appetite and it's just not being met and nothing good comes from that married people.32:30-32:30Alright?32:33-32:35So this is from the Lord.32:37-32:39Enjoy each other as much as possible.32:40-32:40Okay?32:42-32:43It's fun.32:43-32:50It's God's idea and in this passage he reminds us it is the best help in avoiding temptation.32:55-32:56It's the best help in avoiding temptation.32:57-32:58Think about it this way.32:58-33:00Just imagine this scenario.33:01-33:02Imagine this scenario.33:02-33:09Husband wakes up and he comes downstairs and he sees that his wife is baking chocolate chip cookies.33:11-33:13Seven in the morning she's baking chocolate chip cookies.33:15-33:16What a great wife, right?33:17-33:18Oh, it gets better.33:18-33:47He's baking chocolate chip cookies and he sees on the counter, she's obviously been at it for a while because there's a plate and there's a stack of them. And his wife says, "Honey, have all the cookies that you want." And like the dutiful husband that he is, he sits down and he has one, three, six, ten of them! And you know how you feel after eat a dozen chocolate chip cookies, right?33:49-33:50Just me?33:52-33:52(audience laughing)33:54-33:57You know how you feel after you eat a dozen chocolate chip cookies, right?33:59-33:59Thank you.34:00-34:01Thank you.34:02-34:09Your wife says, "Sweetheart, before you go to work, "I want you to have as many of these cookies as you want, "and I wanna tell you something else, honey.34:10-34:17"When you come home, there's gonna be more." So, you indulge.34:20-34:22Let me ask you something, when you get to work, are you hungry for cookies?34:25-34:25No.34:26-34:27Thank you.34:28-34:29Thank you.34:30-34:33One of you is on board now, the rest of you will catch up.34:34-34:35No.34:35-34:39You get to work, you're not hungry for cookies.34:40-34:46So what happens when the co-worker comes over to you and says, "Blink, blink, blink, blink, blink.34:47-34:48Would you like a cookie?34:50-34:56What do you say?" You're like, "I am full.34:58-35:03You wouldn't believe how many cookies I ate before work today." Well, you probably wouldn't say that.35:08-35:09We need to cut that one.35:10-35:11(audience laughing)35:15-35:19You would say, too much Taylor?35:19-35:20Too, oh, okay.35:20-35:27You would say, if she says blink, blink, blink, would you like a cookie?35:27-35:29You would say, no, thank you.35:31-35:31I'm full.35:34-35:35I have all the cookies that I wanted.35:38-35:45And you know, if you go a long time without cookies, self-control is much harder when someone else offers you one.35:49-35:52So if you're married, enjoy the wedding present that God gave you.35:52-35:52Alright?35:54-35:56Number two, single?35:58-35:59Enjoy God's gift of singleness.36:02-36:04I'm going to touch on this quickly.36:04-36:04Why?36:05-36:08He goes way into more detail later.36:08-36:11But right now, understand the point of what he's saying now.36:11-36:14The point of what he's saying now is two good options, right?36:14-36:14Two good options.36:15-36:16Marriage, good option.36:16-36:20And he's like, let's talk about the other good option, being single.36:20-36:21Look at verse six.36:22-36:35He says, "Now as a concession, not a command, I say this." In other words, he's like, look, I'm not commanding everyone to get married.36:35-36:38I'm just putting this out there because of human needs.36:39-36:39Right?36:39-37:19Verse seven, he says, "I wish that all were as I myself am, but each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another." So Paul says, "I have this gift and I wish everyone had this gift." Paul's like, "You may not have this gift." Bible's clear, God gives different gifts to different people and some people are uniquely gifted by God for singleness.37:20-37:21Some people are.37:21-37:24Like that is from God himself.37:28-37:33Quickly, Jesus, Matthew chapter 19, again, we referenced this earlier.37:33-37:38He was speaking of marriage and divorce and adultery.37:38-37:41Look, Jesus, this is where Paul gets this.37:42-37:45Paul's just repeating what Jesus was saying here about singleness.37:46-38:07Like I said, Jesus just got done talking about marriage and divorce, and the disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry." But Jesus said to them, "Not everyone can receive this saying, but only to those to whom it is given.38:09-38:19For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.38:20-38:24Let the one who is able to receive this, receive it.38:26-38:28Same thing, same point.38:29-38:32Some people have a gift of singleness given by God.38:34-38:41If you're sitting here, you're like, "Man, I couldn't do it." Well, then you don't have the gift.38:43-38:45That's just all there is to it, right?38:47-38:48If you're sitting here and you're like, "You know what?38:48-38:59am single but I really don't want to be, then you don't have the gift. Because it's a gift from God to be single and content.39:02-39:17It's from God to be single and content, not single and consumed by lust. You don't have the gift if that's the case. Not if single and constantly tempted, you don't have the gift.39:17-39:23Not if single and constantly preoccupied by the fact that I am single, you don't have the gift.39:26-39:26Right?39:27-39:32But for some, it is a gift.39:33-39:45And there are definite advantages to this gift that we're going to talk about very shortly down the road, he picks up on that really in verse 32.39:46-39:56So Paul is saying to the Corinthians, "God's Word preserved by His Holy Spirit saying to us same thing." Look, don't judge the single people, right?39:57-39:58Don't judge the single people.39:58-40:04Maybe they have a gift from God to be single and content, to serve Him in a unique way.40:04-40:04Don't judge them.40:05-40:08And on the other hand, don't judge the married people either.40:09-40:24God has given the gift of marriage, and each side here, the single, the married, each has a gift, so enjoy yours how God intended." Our worship team would make their way up.40:25-40:35You know, in talking about this subject, it's hard to not think about how I heard of this subject when I was but a wee lad.40:38-40:46And you know, growing up, I thought, I'm just gonna be honest with you here, I thought sex was a bad, dirty thing.40:50-41:05Growing up, I thought sex was just this really, it was this really secretive, dirty thing that adults kind of whisper about, and you're like, "Why did you think that?" Because that was the only way it was ever presented.41:07-41:27And you know, so much church, so much church is, "Don't do this, don't do that, don't do this." So much church is, "Let me tell you everything that we're against." And too seldom does the church say what we're for.41:29-41:35But listen, sex is not a bad, dirty thing.41:38-41:41You realize God created it.41:43-41:45You realize the whole thing was His idea.41:46-41:52God is 100% for husbands and wives enjoying the heck out of it.41:55-41:56That's what he intended.41:58-42:01Sex to be one of life's greatest pleasures for a married couple.42:03-42:10So it's a gift for the married and the unmarried get the gift of not needing that wedding gift.42:10-42:13So, which is good?42:15-42:17Married or single?42:20-42:21Both are good.42:23-42:23Enjoy.42:24-42:25Let's pray.42:26-42:31Father in heaven, every good and perfect gift comes from above.42:32-42:55And I pray, Father, that you would give us eyes to see the way that you have blessed and gifted us and that we would use the gifts in a way that honors and glorifies you, whether it's single, to serve you in a unique way, whether it's married, to enjoy this picture of Christ and the church to enjoy the intimacy that comes from knowing somebody so deeply.42:57-43:01Whatever it is, God, let us recognize and enjoy.43:02-43:04And thank You and praise You for all of Your gifts.43:05-43:07We praise You in Jesus' name.43:07-43:08Amen. Small Group DiscussionRead 1 Corinthians 7:1-7What was your big take-away from this passage / message?Explain the “3 Laws of Marital Intimacy” in your own words (1 Cor 7:3-5).What does it mean that “the wife doesn't have authority over her own body, but the husband does, (and vice-versa)”? Is this making allowance for some kind of coercion to intimacy? Why or why not?How would you respond to a single friend who asks, “How do I know if I have the gift of singleness?”BreakoutPray for one another.

Introduction: 4 Things to Say To Yourself When You're Tempted: (1 Corinthians 6:12-20) I can't EXCUSE sin. (1 Cor 6:12-14) I am ONE with Christ. (1 Cor 6:15-17) God says to RUN from sexual sin. (1 Cor 6:18) My body BELONGS to God. (1 Cor 6:19-20) Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANKHint: Highlight blanks above for answers! AUDIO TRANSCRIPT 00:43-00:45What kind of a church is this?00:46-00:48We are a church that sits on four pillars.00:50-00:53We proclaim the authority of God's Word without apology.00:55-00:58We lift high the name of Jesus in worship.00:59-01:01We believe firmly in the power of prayer.01:02-01:05And we share the good news of Jesus with boldness.01:09-01:19Speaking of that first pillar, we're going through a series here Corinthians, and we go where the text takes us.01:21-01:23And today we're going to talk about sexual immorality.01:26-01:28I'm going to be direct but not explicit.01:28-01:33The question comes up, "Should my child listen to this?" But parental discretion advised.01:33-01:36Again, direct but not explicit.01:37-01:44I would encourage you parents, whether you're sitting here or whether you're streaming somebody's going to be talking to your kids about this.01:44-01:54You should be, but they're going to be hearing a lot of different opinions regarding matters of marriage and sexuality.01:54-01:56I think it might do them good to hear God's opinion of it.01:58-02:10So I'm just going to ask you would please pray for me to be faithful to communicate God's word clearly, and I will pray for you to have your heart open to receive what He wants to tell us today.02:17-02:30Father in heaven, let this not just be another sermon sat through, but let Your Word transform our hearts and minds.02:30-02:36Father, give us the faith to believe and act upon what You have already pronounced to be true.02:39-02:41Let this be the day of repentance.02:42-02:52Let this be a day of joy and celebration and truly embracing Your gifts.02:53-02:55Your Word says every good and perfect gift comes from above.02:56-02:57Father, we believe that.03:01-03:04And I thank You, Father, ahead of time for the work that You're going to do.03:05-03:12We pray in Jesus' name and all of God's people said, "Amen." Amen.03:12-03:331 Corinthians chapter 6, we're in a series through 1 Corinthians called "Unified and Purified." Unified, that's the first four chapters, unified, where Paul says, "Church, collectively, get it together." Right?03:34-03:53In this next section that we're in, the church purified, Paul says, "Each of you, be who Jesus saved you to be." And today we are going to be talking about sexual immorality.03:54-04:14And those of you who have been going through this series with us might be saying at this point, "Oh, Pastor Jeff, maybe the cold is affecting your brain, but didn't we talk about that guy two weeks ago?" Oh, you think there was just one person in that church struggling with it.04:16-04:18Did you hurt your head when you fell off the turnip truck?04:19-04:19No.04:20-04:32There wasn't just one person at that church dealing with it, and I guarantee you there's There's not just one person in this church dealing with it.04:32-04:34Look down to verse 18.04:34-04:36This is the sermon.04:38-05:10Verse 18, Paul says, "Flee from sexual immorality." "Flee from sexual immorality." See, in Corinth, they were famous for their temple to Aphrodite, And their priestesses were actually prostitutes, and they would by those means help men worship according to their religion.05:12-05:14That was their context.05:16-05:20But the principles in this passage aren't limited to that.05:20-05:22And you have to get that.05:23-05:37You know, we don't want guys sitting here going, "Well, I'm doing pretty good because I've never been with a prostitute." Flea, sexual immorality, that word sexual immorality covers it all.05:38-05:54Whether it's an affair, or pornography, or one of these apps that allow you to meet up with people, it's anything outside of God's design for marriage and sexuality.05:55-05:59And look, there is nothing new under the sun.06:00-06:06The problem that this church had is the same problem that the church has today.06:06-06:07We touched on this a couple of weeks ago.06:08-06:08Here's the problem.06:09-06:13It's not viewing sex as sacred.06:14-06:14That's the problem.06:17-06:24We've turned this gift from God into some gross form of self-gratification.06:27-06:30So what is the purpose of sex?06:31-06:32What is it?06:33-06:38Well, what is the purpose of everything that God created?06:41-06:44The purpose of everything that God created is to glorify Him.06:46-06:48So what is the purpose of marital intimacy?06:50-06:51You're like, "Really?06:51-06:53To glorify God?" Yeah.06:54-06:54Yeah.06:55-07:01Need I remind you that the whole idea of marital intimacy was God's idea.07:01-07:08The whole idea that this was to be a pleasure shared between a married couple, that was God's plan.07:10-07:12He designed that, right?07:12-07:15Genesis tells us male and female, He created them.07:16-07:19The two shall become one flesh, Genesis 2.24.07:20-07:30That's the purpose of intimacy, but what's the objective of sex?07:30-07:33What's the objective of sexual relations?07:34-07:45Well, some would say, "Well, the objective is procreation, that's it." That's not the primary objective.07:47-07:55And for some, they would say, "It's pleasure." There's that, but that's not the primary objective of sex.07:56-07:59The primary objective is intimacy.08:03-08:05And you need to learn this statement from God's Word.08:08-08:10Intimacy is for those in the covenant.08:13-08:15Intimacy is for those in the covenant.08:18-08:26See under the new covenant, God desires the closest relationship possible that He can have with His people.08:26-08:27So what does He do?08:28-08:31He lives inside the heart of a believer.08:34-08:40And the Bible tells us that marriage and sex is a picture of the gospel.08:41-08:45The man representing Jesus, the woman representing the church.08:45-08:47Ephesians 5, you can read that later.08:48-08:49Same point though.08:51-08:54God's relationship with man, man's relationship with his wife.08:55-08:58Intimacy is for the covenant.09:01-09:05And sex is the physical manifestation.09:05-09:08It's the illustration of such intimacy.09:13-09:19Because in the covenant of marriage, the man representing Jesus is initiating a love relationship.09:20-09:28And the woman representing the church is receiving an intimacy that the two exclusively enjoy.09:29-09:39And the fact right now that people would hear something like that and start to snicker and start to giggle shows you the problem.09:41-09:43That the whole idea of sex has been perverted.09:45-09:47Like obviously, right?09:48-09:49Like how did that happen?09:52-09:56Well the Bible tells us when Adam and Eve sinned, they immediately noticed what?09:58-09:59They noticed that they were naked.10:00-10:01Isn't that strange?10:02-10:06Because up until that point, they only ever saw each other naked.10:07-10:15Now all of a sudden that sin is in the world, now they cast a whole new light on this.10:18-10:22But all of the sudden they had to cover themselves up.10:28-10:33There is a shame associated with sexuality because of sin.10:37-10:46God's wedding gift to men and women has been misused and abused and perverted.10:48-10:58And like the Corinthians, the world's profane, disgusting view of sex has been brought into the church.11:02-11:10And like them, there are many people here that are indulging in some form of sexual sin.11:15-11:18So what's it going to take to get you to break free?11:18-11:18What is it?11:21-11:23I've been doing this a long time.11:23-11:24I know how sermons work.11:24-11:27This is the part of the sermon where you get the stats, right?11:28-11:36You get the statistics on pornography and usage in the church and out the church.11:37-11:39That doesn't make a difference to people.11:41-11:49Or this is the part of the sermon where I can tell you the effect that pornography will have on your marriage and your relationships.11:49-12:05And I can get, you know, line graphs up there or quotes from brilliant scientists talking about the effect that it has on your marriage and the effect that it has on your brain, and that's not going to move anybody.12:07-12:11We could talk about the risk of sexually transmitted diseases.12:15-12:24I don't really think any of those things are very effective to get people on track with God's design for marital intimacy.12:25-12:27What we need is the power of the Holy Spirit.12:28-12:31What we need is the wisdom that comes from the Word of God.12:33-12:37So on your outline, that's what we're going after today.12:38-12:50That when you find yourself in a place of temptation, through this passage you're going to see, there's four things that you need to say to yourself when temptation shows up.12:52-12:52Alright?12:52-12:55Number one, break this down, I can't excuse sin.12:56-12:59I just can't excuse sin.13:04-13:12You see, the Corinthians, in their culture, they had some popular sayings that they used to excuse sin.13:12-13:14Look at your Bible, here's two of them.13:14-13:26Verse 12, "All things are lawful for me." Verse 13, "Food is meant for the stomach, and the stomach for food." Stop there.13:26-13:32Those were two of the sayings of the culture, two of the, you know, secular proverbs, so to speak.13:33-13:39But when they wanted to excuse and justify their sexual sin, they would say one of those statements.13:39-13:44And what we have here in 1 Corinthians 6 is Paul systematically breaking them down.13:44-13:51He's like, "Your reasoning is really messed up here." So let's look at it.13:51-13:58First of all, verse 12, he says, "All things are lawful for me." Stop there.14:00-14:01Is that true?14:05-14:20Look, if you are a born-again believer in Christ, if you are truly regenerate, if you are truly saved, you have freedom in Christ.14:21-14:25Yes, nothing can separate you from the love of God.14:25-14:30No sin that you commit will disqualify you from being a child of God.14:30-14:31That is true.14:31-14:32All right?14:34-14:35But let's look at what Paul says.14:35-14:48He says, "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful." Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.14:48-14:49This is Paul's first argument.14:51-14:54Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.14:57-15:01Can I have gummy bears and cream soda for breakfast?15:04-15:07Aaron, can I have gummy bears and cream soda for breakfast?15:09-15:11Yes, I can.15:12-15:15And you were all witness that she nodded her head yes.15:16-15:19Look, God's not going to condemn me for that.15:22-15:23Is it very helpful though?15:24-15:26What about, can I play the lottery?15:27-15:29Can I play the...oh, Aaron says no on that one.15:31-15:35For purposes of illustration, can I play the lottery?15:37-15:38Sure I can.15:40-15:44God's not going to send me to hell if I buy a scratchy ticket, right?15:45-15:49If I buy a scratchy lottery, Pastor Taylor, God's not going to send me to hell for that.15:53-15:54But does that make it a good idea?15:57-15:58It's not helpful, is it?15:59-16:00It's not wise.16:00-16:03The lottery is just a tax on people who are bad at math.16:06-16:11Okay, now how about sleeping with someone you're not married to?16:12-16:17If you're a true Christian, that is not going to send you to hell.16:21-16:29Saying that it is not helpful is one of the biggest understatements of all time.16:32-16:33I think that's Paul's point.16:35-16:35It's not helpful.16:37-16:39Sleeping with someone you're not married to is not helpful.16:40-16:44It can result in an unwanted pregnancy.16:47-16:50If she's married, you're going to deal with an angry husband when he finds out.16:52-16:56You're going to deal with shame in your workplace, in your church, in your community.16:59-17:03Your testimony, if you're a Christian, certainly not going to help that.17:04-17:10Oh, and if she's married, now you've destroyed two families, yours and hers.17:11-17:15And if you're not married, you've done damage to future spouses, yours and hers.17:18-17:19There's consequences.17:20-17:21So that's where Paul starts.17:21-17:25He's like, "All things are lawful for me." He's like, "Bag that excuse.17:26-17:30Not all things are helpful." Let's look at the next one.17:31-18:12Back in verse 12, he says, "All things are lawful for me, but I will not be enslaved anything. Some translations, "I will not be dominated by anything." He goes, "Why would I mess around with something that could enslave me? Why would I do that?" It's just, it's foolishness, right? And sexual sin is addictive, right? Talk to the guy who struggled with looking at things on his computer that he shouldn't be looking at.18:13-18:14It's addictive.18:15-18:21Talk to the girl who's in that wrong relationship that she just keeps going back to.18:21-18:22It's addictive.18:25-18:31I mean, with any sin, one and done is bad enough.18:32-18:43But when you have a sin that just keeps drawing you back in, Paul says, "You really want to mess around with something that's going to consume your life?18:44-18:53I'm not going to be dominated by anything." He's like, "You can bag that excuse too." But there's another one.18:53-18:54Look at verse 13.18:55-18:59He says, "Food is meant for the stomach, and the stomach for food.19:01-19:15And God, this is Paul's commentary on that saying, he goes, "And God will destroy both one and the other." The body's not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.19:19-19:21See that was the other excuse for sexual sin.19:21-19:24Food is meant for the stomach, and the stomach's for food.19:24-19:25You see that argument?19:26-19:37The argument is this, look, the act of physical intimacy, it's just biological, right?19:37-19:39It's just a biological thing.19:39-19:43I mean, you guys are a little too uptight about that.19:43-19:46It's just a biological function.19:47-19:49I mean, let me break it down for you.19:49-20:00and my tummy is hungry, and I see food, I'm like, well, I see a connection here.20:00-20:02You two were sort of made for each other.20:03-20:04Let's get this together, right?20:05-20:07It's obvious what needs to happen here.20:08-20:10The food needs to go in my tummy.20:15-20:18He applied that same logic to sex.20:20-20:28It's like, "Look, I have body parts and there is a woman, so it's obvious what needs to happen here.20:28-20:36These two were made for each other." You see, Paul shoots that one down, foolish thinking.20:36-20:40He goes, "Yeah, food and stomach, that's an appropriate match.20:41-20:46body doesn't match with sexual sin.20:48-20:52What body matches with is the Lord.20:53-20:58So your little analogy is fundamentally faulty.21:00-21:04And Paul says further, "More food for the stomach." That's a temporary thing.21:08-21:10That's just a temporary thing.21:10-21:12But your body is the Lord's.21:14-21:15That's an eternal thing.21:16-21:26In other words, Paul says your analogy breaks down because while digestion, yes, is a biological function, sex is not just a biological function.21:26-21:28It's not just a physical act.21:28-21:28It's not.21:31-21:34By the way, your body is not going to be destroyed.21:35-21:36It's going to be glorified.21:36-21:5214, Paul says, "And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by His power." Paul is saying, "Your body has a glorious destiny.21:54-22:01Don't use it for lust." Paul is like, "Bag that excuse.22:01-22:03It's just a biological function.22:04-22:06You are not a dog, okay?22:08-22:15This act of intimacy is more than just some biological function like eating or drinking.22:19-22:23That saying, "All things are lawful for me," boy, that one didn't go away, did it?22:24-23:18I think we all know people that are like the ultra-grace people that are like, "Hey, because Christ died for me, I can do whatever I want. I have freedom in Christ to do whatever I want." That mindset overtook the Corinthians, and so many Christians today have such a skewed view of God's Word. Look, liberty is not license. All right? Liberty is not license. And I want to say this with as much love and compassion as I can muster here, but you are either unregenerate or you're a toddler Christian if you think freedom in Christ is a green light for anything and everything that you want to do." Those were their sayings.23:20-23:25Boy, we could spend a lot of time talking about some of the sayings that we threw around in our day, right?23:26-23:30We have other popular sayings that we use to excuse sin.23:31-23:32I've heard them all.23:34-23:40Here's a big one, you've heard this one, when people want to excuse their sexual sin, they're like, "Everyone does it." You heard that one?23:40-23:41Everyone does it.23:41-23:45Oh, okay, that's the measure of what's appropriate, right?23:45-23:47As long as everybody's doing it, then it must be okay.23:50-23:52You can bag that excuse.23:54-23:55Here's one that I hate.23:56-24:08I've heard so many times people say, "Well, you wouldn't buy a car without test driving it, huh?" A problem with that analogy, we're talking about a human being, not a car.24:08-24:17If I go to a lot and test drive a car and decide not to buy it, that car isn't going to carry emotional damage with it for the rest of its life.24:21-24:22You use cars.24:23-24:24You don't use people.24:25-24:27Beg that excuse.24:28-24:37You hear people say, "Well, you know, come on, a man has needs." Yeah, yeah, a man does have needs.24:37-24:38A man needs Christ.24:39-24:41Let's focus on that need.24:41-24:43That's the most important need.24:43-24:44Let's go after that one.24:45-24:46Or how about this one?24:48-24:49"Oh, you don't understand.24:49-25:01We love each other." Okay, well if you love her that much, then you should enter into a covenant with her and honor the Lord with it.25:02-25:10But if you don't love her enough to enter the covenant with her in marriage, then you shouldn't be physical with her.25:12-25:13Beg that excuse.25:15-25:18Paul says, "Your body's not meant for sexual sin.25:18-25:20It's not meant for self-gratification.25:20-25:21It's meant for the Lord.25:21-25:22It has a glorious destiny.25:22-25:31And here's the bottom line, church, you are never going to repent if you're always looking for an excuse to sin.25:36-25:43So next time you are tempted, you need to stop and say, "I can't excuse sin.25:44-25:45I can't excuse this.25:47-25:51There's nothing I can say before God that would make this sin okay.25:53-25:54I can't excuse sin.25:56-25:56All right?25:56-26:05Number two, when you're tempted, you need to learn to stop and say this, "I am one with Christ.26:07-26:09I am one with Christ." Look at verses 15 through 17.26:11-26:18Paul goes on, he says, "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?26:22-26:28Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute?26:28-26:29Never!26:32-26:39Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her?26:41-26:45Or, as it is written, the two will become one flesh.26:48-26:54But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with Him.26:55-26:57I am one with Christ.26:57-27:05You see, Paul was talking to the Corinthians who were worshipping with the temple prostitutes.27:06-27:16Like you're taking a body, your body, the personal property of Jesus, and using it to gratify yourself in a relationship with a godless woman.27:19-27:25And this is equivalent to dragging Christ Himself into prostitution.27:26-27:29That is an absolutely horrible thought, but that's what He says.27:31-27:32Think about that.27:33-27:38Think about how repulsive and appalling this is.27:38-27:39Think about it.27:42-27:46I mean, would you call Pastor Taylor up and say, "Hey, a bunch of us are going down to the strip club.27:46-27:48You want to go with us?" Would you do that?27:52-27:54Not in a million years would I do that.27:58-28:05Or would you call up Pastor Rich and say, "Hey, we're going to go downtown and see if we can pick up some women.28:05-28:10You want to come with us?" You would never do that.28:14-28:18But see, the reality, according to God's Word, is far worse.28:20-28:29Because the Bible says we are one with Christ, and engaging in sexual immorality is joining Christ Himself in the act.28:33-28:36Be like asking Jesus to go pick up prostitutes with you.28:40-28:41Absolutely foul.28:43-28:50But you know, it's the same principle, men, when you're looking at things on your computer that you shouldn't be looking at.28:51-28:52It's the same principle.28:52-29:15It would be like calling Jesus up and saying, "Hey, why don't you come over and surf the net with me. Let's look at some stuff together. Would you do that? It's the same principle when you're sneaking around with a co-worker. "Hey Jesus, we're going to call my wife and say we're working late, but we're really going to meet up with so-and-so." Would you do that?29:17-29:21Or when you use an app to meet up with people for a physical relationship.29:24-29:28Look, if you're a Christian, the very thought of that's repulsive.29:28-29:30There's nothing funny about that at all.29:32-29:36So the next time you're tempted, you need to stop and say, "What am I doing?29:36-29:39I am one Spirit with Christ.29:39-29:44Why in the world would I drag the Lord into engaging in this garbage?29:48-29:56I'm one with Christ." Number three, four things to say to yourself when you're tempted.29:56-30:00Number three, God says to run from sexual sin.30:02-30:11Here it is, verse 18, "Flee from sexual immorality." Flee.30:12-30:13Get away.30:18-30:19This is how you win.30:25-30:26I grew up in the '80s.30:28-30:38And I, you know I never, I don't like bragging.30:40-30:44But I'm going to, for a couple of minutes if you'll indulge me.30:47-30:52But I grew up in the '80s, and one of my favorite things about the '80s was Mike Tyson.30:54-31:00Now some of you might remember, or might know of Mike Tyson, rather, seeing him in movies, or cartoons, or whatever.31:01-31:02That's not the Mike Tyson that I knew growing up.31:03-31:05Growing up, I could not wait.31:06-31:23HBO would show his fights, he'd come out with the ripped towel over his head, he had the coin laced in his boot, and he would just come out, and it would be like, "Ding, blaka blaka!" Like, "Ouch!" Look it up on the YouTubes if you don't believe me.31:23-31:28It was, he was an absolute monster.31:32-31:39You know, always the highlight, you know, to watch the usually 90-second fight or whatever.31:41-31:44But okay, I don't, but listen, like I said, I don't want to brag.31:47-31:52But I have never lost a fight to Mike Tyson.31:56-31:58And I know what some of you are thinking.31:59-32:10Some of you are thinking, "Yeah, Pastor Jeff, well, Mike Tyson probably didn't fight ten-year-olds." And I would say, "Look, my record speaks for itself.32:12-32:19I have never lost to Mike Tyson. Not one time. Do you know why I've never lost to Mike Tyson?32:20-32:26Because I wasn't stupid enough to show up to fight him. That's the principle here.32:29-32:37Look, it's the same thing with sexual sin. If you stay and try to fight, you will lose.32:39-33:04That's why you don't fight it. The Bible says you run from it. You run from it. And I got to tell you guys, that's why many of you are losing the battle with pornography today. You've isolated yourself again. You're on your computer or your phone again, and you lost again because you showed up.33:08-33:22That's why some of you continue to go too far physically with that person that you're not married to, because you ended up alone with her again, and you gave in to desire with her again.33:22-33:26You showed up again, and you lost again.33:30-33:34You will give in every time you show up.33:35-33:37That's why God says to run.33:38-33:38Run!33:42-33:42Why?33:42-33:44What's the urgency here?33:44-33:45Look at the rest of verse 18.33:47-33:49This is about as serious as it gets.33:49-33:59He says, "Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.34:00-34:01Please hear me.34:01-34:09Sexual sin is not the worst sin, but it is unique in its consequences.34:10-34:15The Bible says when you sin sexually, you are actually sinning against your own body.34:18-34:23Other sins don't affect you the same way that sexual sin does.34:27-34:28Other sins affect outwardly.34:29-34:33There's something different about sexual sin, it affects you inwardly.34:39-34:40Why is that?34:40-34:41Listen closely, please.34:42-34:55No other physical act that you commit in your body carries the spiritual weight that sexual intimacy does.34:55-35:02So no other sin is going to bring the impact that sexual sin brings.35:07-35:10It consumes, it destroys like no other sin.35:13-35:21You know, over the years I've seen a lot of preachers who have disqualified themselves for ministry because of sin.35:22-35:24Do you know what the most common reason is?35:27-35:28You could probably guess, huh?35:31-35:32I do a lot of counseling.35:33-35:38Do you know what's the most common area we find where people need help?35:43-35:44You probably guess.35:46-35:53We've lost ministry, we've hurt our families, we're doing damage control all because we didn't flee.35:54-35:59We showed up, we thought we could handle it this time, and we lost again.36:02-36:04Nobody's surprised but you.36:06-36:20So the next time you're tempted, stop, stop, and say, "This is so serious that God says I should run from it." All right?36:21-36:25And finally, number four, four things to say when you're tempted.36:25-36:28Number four, "My body belongs to God.36:31-36:35My body belongs to God." Look at verse 19.36:37-36:51He says, "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God?" Humans have a unique capacity.36:54-37:00are the only thing in creation that have the ability to be indwelt by God Himself.37:01-37:03No other creature can say that.37:05-37:10God lives inside you if you're a follower of Christ, if you're a believer.37:11-37:13You know, you are the temple of God.37:13-37:31In the Old Testament, the temple of God was a building, and when Jesus walked the earth, The temple, the tabernacle of God was in one man, Jesus Christ, but now under the new covenant, God's temple is in the heart of every believer of Christ.37:35-37:35You're the temple.37:38-37:38What would you think?37:40-37:54What would you think of someone who, during sermon time today, they were looking at explicit of the opposite sex on their phone during the sermon, what would you think about that?37:55-37:57Wouldn't you just sort of be appalled?38:00-38:04Like, I can't believe during the preaching of the Bible somebody was looking at that.38:04-38:05Wouldn't that be appalling?38:06-38:17Or what would you think if there was someone in this church that was having an affair, and they decided that this room was a perfect private place?38:17-38:22Some night through the week when nobody's here, they sneak in here and have an affair right in this room.38:22-38:23What would you think about that?38:24-38:28Wouldn't you be like, "What is the matter with you?38:28-38:39You did that in church?" I don't want to burst any bubbles, but this room, this room is really nothing special.38:40-38:41This is an office building.38:47-38:49That was a rumpus room before we moved in here.38:51-38:53And who knows what they'll do with it when we're gone.38:54-38:56This room is nothing special at all.38:59-39:02You are the temple of God.39:02-39:04You are holy property.39:04-39:15God says, "You are where I live." So every time you commit sexual sin, no matter where you do it, you're doing it in God's living room.39:19-39:35He goes on, look at verse 19, he says, "You are not your own, for you were bought with a price to glorify God in your body." You have a holy obligation to Jesus.39:35-39:36You are not your own.39:37-39:40Listen, you have no right to yourself.39:44-39:53You have no right to yourself, because you were bought with a price.39:55-39:56What did it cost to buy you?39:58-40:00It cost the blood of Jesus Christ.40:08-40:10You know, everybody is so concerned about their rights.40:12-40:14"I have rights!40:15-40:16I'm going to stand up for my rights!40:17-40:24I know my rights!" You know, as Christians, we have no rights.40:25-40:26Did you know that?40:30-40:34As a Christian, all I can say is, I'm not my own.40:36-40:37I don't even belong to myself.40:40-40:44This body belongs to Jesus.40:45-40:47This body was heading to hell.40:48-40:56This body was going to be separated from God forever, and Jesus Christ bought this back with His own death.40:57-40:59So this belongs to Jesus.40:59-41:00He paid for it.41:04-41:13So, you know the saying that was so popular, and there's still remnants of it, people walking around going, "My body, my choice." That's not biblical.41:15-41:34You want to make it biblical, you say it this way, "Christ's body, Christ's choice." So, he says, "So, glorify God in your body." We are a wholly motivated church.41:34-41:36We are wholly motivated.41:36-41:38Our highest priority is to glorify God.41:40-41:51Physical intimacy in the covenant of marriage, the purpose for which God designed intimacy, When that act occurs, that glorifies God.41:52-42:00And refusing to allow your passions to control you, when you flee from sexual immorality, you glorify God.42:03-42:07So next time you're tempted, you need to stop and say, "No, no, no.42:09-42:19This belongs to God." You know, the church is called the Bride of Christ.42:22-42:35Jesus desires intimacy with His bride, so He entered a covenant with His bride, and He keeps His covenant because He is faithful to His bride.42:35-42:39And that is exactly what we are called to emulate as children of God.42:40-42:49I keep my covenant to my bride because that's what my Lord does." Her worship team would make their way back up front.42:53-42:58Look, when you leave here today, at some point you're going to be tempted.43:00-43:09You're going to be tempted to think of something you shouldn't, to look at something you shouldn't, to do something that you shouldn't.43:09-43:34going to be tempted. Some of you, it might be tomorrow or Wednesday. Some of you, it might be on your way to the car from church. I want to encourage you, if that's a struggle for you, keep this outline and make it a steady habit in your devotions to read and review These principles from God's Word.43:36-43:45If you're unmarried and you keep finding yourself tempted, sit down and read these together with your boyfriend or girlfriend.43:48-43:53How about you make these four statements the lock screen on your phone?43:55-43:59I can't excuse sin because there is no excuse.44:00-44:03Number two, I am one with Christ.44:06-44:09God says to run from sexual sin.44:11-44:14And my body belongs to God.44:16-44:16Let's pray.44:20-44:32Our Father in heaven, I pray, Father, again by the power of your Holy Spirit, by the wisdom of your Word that today would be the day of repentance.44:34-44:46That some people for too long have just made excuses or shrugged their shoulders or have just given up any thought that this is a sin that can be avoided.44:47-45:07I pray today, Father, that we reexamine the purpose of it and that we would be a people You are truly wholly motivated to enjoy this gift in the way which you told us to enjoy.45:09-45:22Thank you, Father, for this glorious picture that you've given us of Christ faithful to His bride.45:25-45:26Give us the faith to imitate that.45:26-45:28We pray in Jesus' name, amen. Small Group DiscussionRead 1 Corinthians 6:12-20What was your big take-away from this passage / message?Explain the expressions the Corinthians used to justify sexual sin (1 Cor 6:12-13)?What expressions do people use today? How do you refute those?How exactly is sexual sin different from other sins (1 Cor 6:18)?How would you respond to a Christian that justifies their sin by saying, “I have freedom in Christ to live how I want!”? (See 1 Cor 6:19-20) BreakoutPray for one another.

Dr. Deb 0:01Welcome back to another episode of Let’s Talk Wellness Now, and I’m your host, Dr. Deb, and today we’re pulling back the curtain on a topic that barely gets a whisper in conventional medicine. Chronic bladder symptoms, biofilms, and the hidden genetic drivers that keep so many women stuck in a cycle of pain, urgency, and infection that never truly resolves. My guest today is someone who is not only brilliant, but battle-tested, like myself. Dr. Kristen Ryman is a physician, a mom, and the author of Life After Lyme, a book and blueprint that has helped countless people reclaim health after complex chronic illness. After healing herself from advanced Lyme, she has spent her career helping patients recover their most vibrant, resilient selves through her Inner Flow program. Her Healing Grove podcast, her membership community, and her deep dive work on bladder biofilms and stealth pathogens. And what I love about Kristen is that she teaches from lived experience. In 2022, she suffered a stroke. And not only survived it, but rebuilt her brain, resolved lateral strabismus, restored balance, and regained her ability to multitask That journey uncovered her own genetic predisposition to clotting, the very same patterns she sees in her chronic bladder patients. And that personal revelation ultimately led to her Introducing this groundbreaking work that we’re talking about today. So let’s get into it, because bladder biofilms, clotting genetics, stealth pathogens, and real recovery is the conversation women have been needing for decades. And we’ll get started. Where did this one go? There we go. Alright, so welcome back to Let’s Talk Wellness Now. I have Dr. Kristen with me, and I am so excited to talk to her for multiple reasons. A, she’s got a fabulous story, and B, she’s an expert in a topic that nobody’s talking about, and I want to learn from her, too. So, welcome to the show. Kristin Reihman 3:07Thank you! I’m so happy to be here, Dr. Deb. Dr. Deb 3:10Thank you. Well, let’s dive right in, because we have so much to talk about, and you and I could probably talk for hours. So, let’s dive into this conversation, and tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got involved in this. Kristin Reihman 3:23Well, I mean, like so many people, I think, on this path, I had, had to learn it the hard way. You know, I had to find my way into a mystery illness, a complex, mysterious set of symptoms that sort of didn’t fit the… the sort of description of what, you know, normal doctors do, and even though I was a normal doctor for many years, nothing I’d been trained in could help me when I was really debilitated from Lyme disease back in 2011, 20212, 2023. And so I kind of had to crawl my way out of that, using all the resources at my disposal, which, you know, started out with a lot of ILADS stuff, you know, a lot of the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society, resources online, found some Lyme doctors, and then my journey really quickly evolved to sort of, like, way far afield of normal Western medicine, which is what my training is in you know, I think within a year of my diagnosis, I was, like, you know, at a Klingheart conference, and learning all sort of, you know, the naturopathic approach to Lyme, and really trying to heal my body and terrain, and heal the process that had led me to become so, so ill from, you know. A little bacteria. Dr. Deb 4:29Yeah. Yeah, same here. Like, I’ve been an ILADS practitioner for over 20 years, and when I got sick with Lyme, I was like… how did I not realize this? And I knew I had Lyme before I even was ILADS trained, but when I got really sick and got diagnosed with MS, I never thought about Lyme or mycotoxins or any of that, because I was too busy, head down, doing what I’m doing, helping people. And I, too, had to take that step back, not just physically, but more spiritually and emotionally, and say, how did my body get this sick? Like, what was I doing, and what was I not doing? That allowed this to happen, and now look at this from a healing aspect of not just the physical side, but that spiritual-emotional side as well. Kristin Reihman 5:13Totally. I have the same… I have the same realization as I was coming out of it. I was like, wow, this wasn’t just about, sort of, physically what I was doing and not doing. There was something spiritual here as well for me, and I… I feel like it really was a wake-up call for me to get on the path that I’m supposed to be on, the path that I’m on now, really, which is stepping away from the whole medicine matrix model and moving into, you know, working with really complex people. Listening to their bodies, understanding intuition, understanding energy, understanding all these different pieces that doctors just aren’t trained to look at. Dr. Deb 5:46Right? We don’t have time to learn everything, right? Like, you have time to learn the body and the medical side of things, and that’s a whole prism of itself, but then learning the spiritual energy medicine, that’s a completely different paradigm. That’s a full-time learning aspect, and it’s so different than what we learn in conventional medicine. Kristin Reihman 6:04Yeah, it’s a complete health system. Like, it’s a complete healthcare system. Dr. Deb 6:10Yes, and nobody takes it that seriously, but I, for myself, I’ve been spiritual healing for decades, and it wasn’t until I got really sick that I dived deeper into that and looked at what is it in this world that I’m owning, what belongs to generational things that were brought to me from childbirth and other generations in my family that I’m carrying their old wounds. And how do I clear some of that so that it’s not still following me? And then how do I help my kids so that they don’t have to carry what I brought forth? And it’s just… a lot of people, that may sound crazy, but that’s the kind of stuff that we need to be looking at if we want to truly heal. Kristin Reihman 6:54Yeah, and I think it’s also, it’s inspiring, you know, because when people… and I would tell this to my patients with Lyme and these sort of mystery illnesses, like, look, you are on this path for a reason, and this is going to teach you so much that you didn’t necessarily want to learn, but you need to learn. And this… nothing that you learn or change about your lifestyle or the way in which you move through the world is gonna make you a worse person. Like, it’s only gonna sort of up-level you. You know, it’s gonna up-level your diet, and your sleep habits, and your relationships, and your toxic thinking, like, it’s all gonna change for you to get better, and that’s… that’s a gift, really. Dr. Deb 7:27It really is, and I tell people the same thing. Like, we can look at this as… something that’s happening to us, or we can look at this as something that’s happening for us. And that’s how I looked at my MS diagnosis. This was happening for me, not to me. I wasn’t going to be the victim. And you have a very similar story, so tell us a little bit about your story and what kind of catapulted you into this in 2022. Kristin Reihman 7:52Well, by 2022, I was, like, 10 years out of my Lyme hole, and I had been seeing patients, you know, I had opened my own practice, and I was working for another company, seeing, families who have brain-injured children. I was their medical director, still am, actually. And so I was doing a patchwork of things, all of which really fed my soul. You know, all of which felt like this is, like, me, aligned with my purpose on the planet. And so, based on a lot of my thinking, I sort of figured, okay, well, I’m good now, right? Like, I’m on my path now, like, the universe is not going to send another 2×4. And then the universe sent another 2×4. And in 2022, I had an elective neck surgery. You kind of still see the little scar here for my two-level ACDF. Because I had crazy off-the-hook arm pain for, like, a year and a half that I just finally became, like, almost like it felt like I was developing fasciculations and fiery, fiery pain, and I just got the surgery, and the pain went away. But when I woke up, I was different. I didn’t have a voice. Which is a common side effect, actually, of that surgery that resolves after a few months, and in many cases, and mine did. But I also didn’t have, normal balance anymore, and my right eye turned out a little bit, and I couldn’t multitask. And my job is all about multitasking. As you know, with very complex people in front of you, you’re hearing all these pieces of their story, and you’re kind of categorizing it, and thinking about where they fit, and you’re making a plan for what to work up, and you’re making a plan for what to wait until next time. It’s like all these pieces, right? You’re in the matrix. And I… I couldn’t hold those pieces anymore. And I didn’t realize that until I went back to work a couple months after my, surgery, because my voice came back and was like, okay, well, now I’m going back to work. And then I realized, I can’t do simple math. In fact, I can’t remember what this person just said to me, unless I read my note, and I can’t remember taking that note. What is going on? And so I had a full workup, and indeed, I had some neurological deficits that didn’t show up on an MRI, so they must have been quite tiny. Possibly were even low-flow, you know, episodes during my surgery when my blood pressure drops really low with the medicines that you’re on for surgery. But I, basically had, like, a few mini strokes, and needed to recover from that. So that was sort of the… that was the 2×4 in 2022. Dr. Deb 10:09Wow. So, what are, what are some of the things that you learned during that process of that mini-stroke? Kristin Reihman 10:17Well, the first thing I learned is that, something that I already knew from working with the Family Hope Center, which is that organization I mentioned that helps families heal their kids’ brains, I know that motivation lives in the ponds, and if you have a ding or a hit to the ponds, like, you don’t want to get out of bed in the morning, you don’t want to do the work it takes to heal your brain, in my case. And I remember spending several months in the fall of 2022 just sort of walking around my yard. With my puppies, being like, This is enough. I don’t really need to work anymore, right? Like, I don’t… why do I need my brain back? Like, I don’t need to have my brain back to enjoy life. You know, I’ll have a garden, I have people I love and who love me, like, why do I need to work? Like, my whole, like, passion, purpose-driven mentality and motivation to kind of do and be all the things I always strive to do and be in the world, was, like, gone. It was really interesting, slash very alarming to those who knew me, but being inside the brain that wasn’t really working, it wasn’t alarming to me. I was just sort of like, oh, ho-hum, this is my new me.Well, luckily I have some people around me, I like to call them my healing team, who sort of held up a mirror, and they’re like, this is not you, and we’re gonna take you to a functional neurologist now. And so, I ended up seeing a functional neurologist who, you know, within… within, like probably 6 visits. I had all these, like, stacked visits with him. Within 6 visits, my brain just turned on. I was like, oh! Right! I need my brain back! I gotta fix this eyesight, I gotta get my balance back, and I gotta learn how to do simple math again and multitask. So, after that sort of jumpstart, I actually did the program that I, you know, know very well inside and out from the Family Hope Center, where I’d been medical director for 10 years. And, it’s a hard program, it’s not… not for wimps, and it’s certainly… I wasn’t about to do it when I had no motivation, so I’m really grateful to the functional neurologist who helped me kind of, like get my brain… get my pawns back, and my motivation back, my mojo. And then I’m really grateful to the Family Hope Center, because if I didn’t have that set of tools in my back pocket, I would still have an eye that turns out to the side, I would still have a positive Romberg, you know, closing my eyes, falling over backwards, and I would still have, a lot of trouble seeing patients, and probably wouldn’t be working anymore. Dr. Deb 12:32I can totally relate to that. When I got my MS diagnosis, you know, there’s a period of time where you go, okay reality kicks in, and I’m thinking, okay, how long am I going to be able to work? How long am I going to be able to play with my kids and my grandkids and be able to be me? And I started looking at, how do I sell my practice, just in case I need to do this? How do I step back? And I spent probably about 9 or 10 months in that place of, this is gonna be my life, and it’s not gonna be what I’m used to, and, you know, how are we gonna redesign my house, and do this, and that, and… Finally, my husband looked at me one day, and he’s like, what the hell is wrong with you? And I was like, what are you talking about? He’s like, this is ridiculous. He’s like, you fix everybody else. He’s like you can fix yourself. Why do you think you can’t fix yourself, or you don’t know the people that can fix you? You need to get out of this, and pick yourself up, and start doing what you tell your patients. And… and I sat there, and at first I was like just did he know that I’m sick? Like, I have MS. I took that victim mode for a little bit, and then I went, no, he’s right. Like, this is my wake-up call to say, I can reverse this, I can fix this, and total, total turnaround, too. Like, I started reaching out to my friends and colleagues, because I kept myself in this huge bubble, like, I didn’t want anyone to know what was going on with me, because I was afraid my patients wouldn’t see me, what are my staff going to say? My staff are going to leave, and if I lose my business, what am I going to do? And da-da-da-da, all those fears. And then… when I finally started opening up and sharing with people, people started bringing me other people, and you need to talk to this person, you need to talk to this person. They connected me here and there, and this place, and 18 months later, I was totally back to normal again. And now my practice is growing, and we’re adding on, and it’s bigger, and I’m taking on more projects than I feel like myself, and… and I was a lot like you, too. Like, I couldn’t remember my protocols that I’ve done for 20 years. I had to depend on what was in the EHR to pull forward, because I always had them in my notes, so I didn’t have to type them all the time, but I was like I have to pull that forward, because I don’t remember the name of the supplement that I’ve used for 15 years. I don’t remember what laps I’m ordering. I don’t remember the normal values of this stuff. And now it’s back on the tip of my tongue, but at the time, it was a little scary, for sure. Kristin Reihman 14:47Wow, so scary. Well, that’s a remarkable story, and why I can’t wait to have you on my podcast, but I’m really… I’m really happy that you had a healing team around you, too, who was like, yeah, nope, that’s not your… that’s not the train we’re on. Get off that train. Come back on your usual train. What are you doing over there? Dr. Deb 15:03Yeah, and you know, I hope that a lot of patients have that, or people that are experiencing this have that, but there’s so many people who don’t have that. And they need somebody, they need somebody in their corner, like we had in our corners, to help pick them up and say, this doesn’t have to be your reality. It can change, but it is a lot of work, like you said. It’s a lot of work. It’s not… Kristin Reihman 15:25Yeah, no, it’s a lot of work. So when I started off. I was work… I was doing probably 4 hours a morning, like, 4… basically, my entire morning was devoted to brain training and healing my brain through the ref… you know, we… I mean, I can get into the details of it, but basically it’s a lot of, like, crawling on the floor. On your belly, creeping on your hands and knees, doing reflex bags to stimulate, you know, more blood flow to the brain, doing a lot of smells. You know, and just staying with it, you know? And I remember balking, even in the beginning, I was, like, seeing some changes, I was feeling more motivated. I remember feeling this… I started noticing it was changing about 2 weeks in, when I would get up in the morning. And I would… I noticed I would start… I would do my, like, beginnings of the day, I would get the kids on the bus, I would do everyone’s breakfast, I’d do the dishes, and I’d be, like, sitting down and being like, hmm, like, what am I supposed to be doing now? Like, where… What is my purpose today? And because I had this plan, I was just like, well, I know that has to happen, so I may as well do that now. And I would get on the floor, and I would start crawling down the length of our hallway. And within about 8 laps, I would feel my brain, like. I felt like it integrating. I would feel things, like, just coming online, and I’d be like, oh, right. I know who I am, I know what I’m doing today, I have these other things this afternoon, I gotta get this done before noon, and I would do it. But it was really interesting, and I’ve never been a coffee drinker, but when I thought of what that felt like, to me, that’s how people often describe, like, my brain doesn’t wake up until I have coffee. I never needed coffee to have… my brain woke up before I’d wake up, and I’d be like, bing, and I’m ready to go. But when I had the brain injury for those 9 months, it wasn’t that way the whole time. In the beginning, it was very hard to get my brain back in the morning, and it was creeping and crawling that would pull it in. Dr. Deb 17:08Wow. Is there one particular thing that you did that you felt made the biggest difference to rebuilding your brain? Kristin Reihman 17:15Crawling on my belly like a commando, wearing elbow pads, knee pads, actually two sets of knee pads, wearing toe shoes, and just ripping laps on my floor. Dr. Deb 17:26Oh, and that’s so simple to do. So why does that work? Kristin Reihman 17:31So interesting, and I… this is the kind of… this is the… the story of this is something that I think is bigger than all of us, and I wish everybody knew how to optimize your brain using just the simple hallway in your house. But essentially, if you take a newborn baby. And you put them on mom’s belly, and they’re neurologically intact, and maybe you’ve seen videos of this. There used to be a video circulating about a baby born onto mom’s belly, nobody touches the baby, and in about 2 minutes and 34 seconds, that baby crawls on its belly, like, uses arms, uses its toe dig with its little babinsky, and pushes its way up to mom’s breast. Latches on with its reflexes, and there you go. That baby keeps itself alive through its primitive reflexes. So it’s essentially telling its brain, every time it runs those reflexes, every time it does a little toe dig, every time it, like, swings its arm across in a cross-later, hetero… what do we call, a homolateral pattern. That little baby is getting a message to its brain that says, grow and heal and organize. And because all the reflexes come out of the middle and lower brain stem. That’s the part of the brain that’s organizing as a baby. And as a baby grows and does the various things a baby does using its reflexes, like eventually on its belly, crawling across the floor, and then popping up to hands and knees, and creeping across the floor, and eventually standing and walking, all of those things are invoking a different set of reflexes that tell the brain to grow and heal and organize. So it’s almost like the function creates the structure, and if you run those pathways again and again and again your brain will get the message to basically invoke its own neuroplasticity, and that’s how a baby’s brain grows. And it turns out, any brain of any age, if you put it through those same pathways, it will send a message of neuroplasticity to the brain, and the brain will grow and heal and organize. Dr. Deb 19:16That was going to be my question, is why aren’t we using this for elderly people with dementia, or Alzheimer’s, or stroke, or Parkinson’s, or things like that, to help them regrow their brain? Kristin Reihman 19:28Well, because number one, nobody knows about it. Number two, even when people do know about it, nobody likes to be on the floor like a baby, creepy and crawling. And least of all the stubborn old people with dementia who are, like, who don’t even think they have a problem. I mean, the problem with the brain not working, as I discovered, and it sounds like you discovered, too, is the brain that’s not working doesn’t know it’s not working, or worse, doesn’t care. You know, and so it’s tricky with adults. With kids who, you know, you have some sort of power over, you can often make your kids do things that they don’t want to do, like eat their vegetables, or creep and crawl on the floor for 80, you know, 80 laps before they get to go, you know, do their thing. But adults are a little trickier. Dr. Deb 20:10Is there another way for us to be able to do that same thing without the crawling on the floor? Like, could they do it in a sitting motion, or do they need that whole connection to happen? Kristin Reihman 20:21Well, they need to be moving in a cross pattern, and they need to be moving their arms and their legs in such a way that stimulates the reflexes. But you can do that on your bed, you can do it face down on your bed by getting into a pattern, and switching sides and, you know, moving your legs and your arms in the opposite… in the, you know, an opposite cross pattern, and that will get you some of the benefit. And we, in fact, we have… we work with kids who are paralyzed and who don’t… aren’t able to independently move forward in a crawling pattern, who have people coordinating their movements so that they get the same movement, and the brain registers it, and they do make progress, and some of them eventually. Crawl, and then creep, and then walk. Dr. Deb 20:59Wow, that’s so… and it’s so simple and easy for people to do. Kristin Reihman 21:04Well, it’s simple. I don’t know that it’s easy. I do… I do… having done it myself, I will say it’s probably the hardest thing I’ve ever done, was literally crawl my way out of that brain injury. And I’m so glad that I knew what to do, and I’m so glad I had people push me to remind me that it was important, because… I’ll even… I’ll share another story of my own resistance. So, about 2 or 3 weeks into it, I was up to 300 meters of crawling on my belly. And 600 meters of creeping on hands and knees, which was really killing my knees, which was why I was wearing two knee pads. And, I started to get this feeling that maybe I wasn’t doing enough. Like, even though I was noticing changes, and even though I was feeling more purpose, and I was getting organized in the morning, I could tell it was making a difference. I… I knew, I remembered that usually the kids on our program are doing a lot more than that, including my own… my youngest kids, but I made them creep and crawl, even though they didn’t have serious brain injuries, I just thought, we’re gonna optimize everyone, get on the floor, get on the floor. Lord so I was… I was nervous about not doing enough, so I… I reached out to the member… one of the members of the team, and I said, you know, hey, Maria, what’s… what do you think about my numbers? And here’s a… here’s a video of me creeping and crawling, what do you think? Am I doing it right? And she said, you’re doing it right, but how many, how many meters are you doing? And I said, I’m doing 300 meters of crawling on my belly, and 600 meters of creeping, and she’s like, oh. Yeah, that’s not nearly enough for an adult. She’s like, Matthew probably gave you those numbers because he felt bad for you and thought you were going to be still working. He didn’t know you were going to take off from patients. Now that you’re… since you’re not working, you need to do more. I was like, okay, tell me… tell me how much I’m supposed to do. And she goes, you need 900 meters of crawling on your belly, and 3,600 meters, 3.6 kilometers of basically crawling on my hands and knees. Dr. Deb 22:51Oh my gosh. Kristin Reihman 22:52And I just shut down. Dr. Deb 22:54Yeah. Kristin Reihman 22:55I was like, okay, screw it. I’m not doing it. Dr. Deb 22:58And I spent a day or two just not doing it and feeling petulant, and then I was like, you know what? Kristin Reihman 23:01Forget that, I was noticing some benefit. I’m gonna do my 300-600. So, the next day, I went and did 300 and 600 while my daughter was at physical therapy, and we got back in the car, and I said, hey, I’m so excited, I finished my… all my creepy and crawling, and it’s only 10 a.m. on a Saturday, I’m done for the weekend. And she did this. She’s sitting in the car, she looks at me, she goes. Was that your whole program, or was that a third of your program? Dr. Deb 23:28How old is she? Kristin Reihman 23:01Well, she’s, like, 20 now, but she was 18 at the time, and she… she had my number, and I was like, Tula! How can you say that? I’m working so hard! And she’s like, Mom? You need to stop seeing patients completely, and do what they tell you at the Family Hope Center. Because we’re your family, and this is your brain we’re talking about, and we need you to have all your brain back. And I must have looked terrible, because she goes, too much? Dr. Deb 23:54You raised a good daughter. Kristin Reihman 23:58And I was like, well, let me tell… let me ask you, do you mean that? She goes, yeah, I really mean that. I’m like, then it’s not too much. I needed to hear that. Thank you. And I went home, and I finished another 600 of crawls. I didn’t… I never got up to 3,600 of creeps. It was just too much for my knees. I got to 900 and 900, but that was the end of my resistance, and I just did it. Dr. Deb 24:17I just did it. Yeah, your family needed you, right? I mean, when somebody in your family that you love tells you they need you, that’s a huge motivating factor. Kristin Reihman 24:27Yeah, yeah, I’m so grateful for that. So, I did that for 9 months, and at the end of 9 months, my eye was straight and stayed straight, my balance was back, I was multitasking again, and I could take, you know, days and days off of creeping and crawling and not notice a dip. I was like, I’m done. Dr. Deb 24:45Wow, that’s awesome. Kristin Reihman 24:46Yeah. Dr. Deb 24:47During this process, you also discovered that you’re part of 20% of the people with clotting genetics. Tell us a little bit about that. What’s your understanding in that? Kristin Reihman 24:58Well, so, I’ll back up. So, before I had my stroke, I had already been seeing patients with really complex, you know, patients like yours, really complex stories, lots of different things going on, kind of the perfect storm for if they got a tick bite, they tanked. Dr. Deb 25:12and… Kristin Reihman 25:13And I’m one of those people, and my patients were those people. And about 7 years ago, I had one of these patients who said to me, you know, I’ve never told you this, but when I was in my 20s, I had so many bladder infections, so much, like, you know, kind of interstitial cystitis, they said it was, and they said it wasn’t an infection, but it felt like one. And I’ve been doing a little research, and I’ve learned about this woman whose name’s Ruth Kriz, she’s a nurse practitioner, and she sees Patients, and she has… she works with practitioners, and she basically heals interstitial cystitis. And I want you to work with her, I want you to learn from her. And I was like, I’m game. That sounds really interesting, I have no idea what she’s doing, and you don’t usually hear the words cure and interstitial cystitis in the same sentence, so, like, I’m in. So I reached out to Ruth, and long story short, I’ve been working with her for the last 5 or 7 years basically increasing the number of patients who I’m diagnosing now with these hidden bladder infections that are really often what’s at the root of these interstitial cystitis symptoms, meaning, you know, you go to the doctor, you pee in a cup, they look for something, they say there’s no infection here, so, you know, you’re probably crazy, or, you know, you probably have just a pain syndrome, we can’t help you. And actually, if you look with a much more sensitive test, and if you break down the biofilms where these bugs kind of are living in the bladder, you find them. And then you can treat them, and then people get well. So I knew about this, and I, didn’t have any bladder infections that I knew about, and what I did start to think about after my stroke was, well, maybe, since these people who have these bladder infections often have issues breaking down biofilms, the same genetics that lead you to have trouble breaking down biofilms, which are these places where the bugs are kind of hiding in your body, have trouble breaking down clots. And I just had some strokes. I wonder if I have maybe some of these clotting genetics that I’m looking for in all my bladder people. And so I looked, and surprise, surprise, I had not one, not two, but, like, six of them. Ruth said to me, Ruth said, Darlin, I don’t know how you’re standing up. This is more than I’ve ever seen in any of my patients. And she’s been doing this for, like, 4 years now. I was like, oh boy, that’s not good. But in retrospect, it made a lot of sense to me, because having the clotting genetics I have. puts me at risk for severe, you know, chronic Lyme that’s intractable, which I had. It puts me at risk for trouble with, you know, having surgery and clotting and, you know, low blood pressure and low flow states. It puts me at risk for the cold hands and cold feet that I had my entire life until I started treating the clotting issues by taking an enzyme that breaks down little microclots. I mean, I was the person in med school who’d put my hands on people, be like, I’m so sorry. My hands are ice. Warm heart, cold hands, warm heart. Yeah, not anymore, because I’ve treated it. But yeah, so I was surprised slash not surprised to find that I’m one of the people in my community who is a setup for chronic infections and, strokes and bladder infections. Dr. Deb 28:22So you just had that predisposition that took you down that path. Kristin Reihman 28:28Yeah, I think so. Dr. Deb 28:30What are some of the layers of biofilm and the stealth pathogens, like tick-borne diseases and things like that, hiding inside us that… what are some of the symptoms look like, and how do they look different in people with clotting disorders versus the common tick-borne disease? Kristin Reihman 28:47I would say they’re very similar, so it tends to be poor peripheral circulation, so if you put your hands on your neck, and your hands feel cold to your neck difference in the heat, right? The amount of blood flow in your sort of axial skeleton and area as compared to the periphery. And that can indicate a biofilm kind of predisposition or a clotting disposition. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s there, but it’s a clue, right? Another clue is a family history of any kind of clotting disorders. So, miscarriages, heart attacks, especially early heart attacks, strokes, especially strokes in young people. These things are… are clues that we should probably look for some kind of clotting issue. And of course, in my population, I’m always thinking about it now, because if you have not been able to get well with the usual things for Lyme disease, for example, or Babesia or Bartonella, all of which, by the way, can form biofilms or, you know, love to live and hide in biofilms, then chances are your body’s having a hard time addressing those biofilms. And it turns out, so the connection between the clotting and the biofilm piece is that the same proteins that our body uses to break down Biofilms are used to break down microclots, blood clots, and soluble fibrin, which are the sort of precursors to those clots. And so, if we have an issue kind of grinding up those just normal flotsam and jetsam in our blood flow, then our blood flow is going to become sticky, and our blood will become sort of stagnant and sludgy, and that’s sort of a setup for not being able to heal from infections. Dr. Deb 30:25Is one of the genetic markers you look at MTHFR? Kristin Reihman 30:28I look at that, but I don’t consider that a clotting issue, unless it leads to high homocysteine. So, homocysteine can be either high or low, they’re both problematic. And MTHFR can create either an over-methylation situation, and sometimes if people have low homocysteine, it’s almost worse, because they’re such poor detoxers that they can’t actually get anything out of their system, and they get sludgy for that reason. But I think in terms of the clotting, the bigger issue is high homocysteine, which, you know, typically the MTHFRs, the 1298 would be more implicated for that. Dr. Deb 31:02Yeah, it kind of sets you up. Dr. Deb 31:04Yeah, yeah. Kristin Reihman 31:05I’m curious what you’re seeing. I know since the pandemic, we see a lot of people with elevated D-dimer levels.Are you seeing some of that in your practice, too? Like, we’re seeing more of it, and now that you’re talking about this, I’m wondering if some of those people are predisposed to some of these genetic makeups, and that’s why we’re seeing such a high rise in that.It… and this is connected, and it’s a piece we’re missing. Kristin Reihman31:29Yes, I do think it’s a piece we’re missing. There was a very interesting study that came out of South Africa. A physician in his office did a clinical study on his patients using 3 blood thinners. So he put people on Plavix, and Eliquis, and aspirin, all at once. It… yeah, you’d be hard-pressed to find a doctor in the States to, like, you know, kind of risk that, because most people don’t even want people on aspirin and Flavix at the same time. Dr. Deb 31:55But Kristin Reihman 31:56They put them on 3 different blood thinners, people with long COVID, and in 6 months, 80% of those people were completely free of symptoms. Dr. Deb 32:04Wow. Kristin Reihman 32:05Yeah, yeah. Now, my question is, what about that 20%? Like, what’s going on with them? And I suspect, they weren’t looking at the other half of the pathway, because when you give a blood thinner, you’re not doing anything to help the body break down clot. You’re simply stopping the body from making more of it. And you rely on the body’s own mechanisms, you know, plasminogen activating inhibitor, for example to kind of grind up those clots and take them out. But when people have a mutation, say, in that protein, they’re not going to be able to grind up the clots, and so my suspicion is the 20% of people who didn’t get well in that study were people who had issues on the other side of the pathway. Dr. Deb 32:44Yeah, they weren’t able to excrete that out and maybe have some fiber and issues and things like that, and that wasn’t being addressed. Kristin Reihman 32:50Yeah Dr. Deb 32:51Yeah Kristin Reihman 32:52Of course, COVID makes its own biofilm. There’s a whole… there’s a whole new, you know, arm of research looking at sort of the different proteins that get folded in the body when COVID spike proteins are in there, kind of creating these almost, like, little amyloid plaque situations in your blood vessels. So, I do think that people who can’t break those down are really at risk for both COVID and the shots. You know, the spike protein comes at you for both of those, right? Dr. Deb 33:17Yeah. Did you use any lumbrokinase or natokinase in your situation? Kristin Reihman 33:22So lumbar kinase is what I use. It’s my main player. I use the Canada RNA one, which is, you know, I think, you know, more studied than any of the other ones, and because of its formulation, it’s about 12 times more potent than anything else out there. So that’s what I’m pretty much on for life. You know, that’s… I consider that kind of my…My… my main game. Dr. Deb 33:44Yeah, I agree, I love Limerocheinase for that, that’s really good. So you recently hosted a retreat around this topic. What were some of your biggest aha moments for the participants as they started unraveling some of these biofilm layers? Kristin Reihman 34:00Yeah, no, it was so fun. My sister and I host retreats together. She came out from California and did the yoga, and I did the teaching about biofilms and bladder issues, and it was really fabulous, because a lot of these folks are people already in my community. A few of them were new, and so we had this wonderful Kind of connection, and learning together, and just validation of what it is to live with symptoms that are super inconvenient, you know? Like, one of the… one of the members even, or participants even brought a big bag of, like, pads, and she’s like, listen, ladies. This is what I’m going to use to get through the week. If you want to borrow, I’ll put my little stash over there, and I think they all went by the end of the week. So we… my aha moment was just how powerful it is to be, hosting community and facilitating conversations where people really feel seen and heard, and just how important that is, especially post-COVID, right? When we, you know, so many people just really missed that piece of other humans. And, yeah, I love… I love being able to help people connect around stuff like that. Dr. Deb 35:00That’s awesome. So, for people who are listening that have that mystery, quote-unquote bladder issue, frequent UTIs, interstitial cystitis symptoms, or pelvic pain, or bladder spasms. Where should they start, and what are the first clues that tell you this is biofilm-driven? Kristin Reihman 35:20So, I think it’s always a good idea to… to do a test, you know, to take a microgen test. There’s a couple companies out there, I think Microgen’s the one that I rely on more than any of the others, and it requires, you know, not only doing a very sensitive test like Microgen, but breaking down biofilm before you take it. So, I always encourage people to take a biofilm breaker like lumbrokinase for 5 days leading up to the test, so you’re really grinding into the bladder wall and opening up those biofilms so that when you catch whatever comes out of your bladder, there’s something in there. If you don’t have bladder biofilm, nothing will come out, and you’ll have a negative test, and that’s usually confirmatory. If you’ve done a good provoking with BLUC or, you know, lumbrokinase for 5 days, and nothing comes out then I usually say mischief managed. That’s… that’s a great… that’s great news for you, right? And most people in my community, when they look, they find something, because, you know, not for nothing, but you’re in my community for a reason, right? Dr. Deb 36:17And so… Kristin Reihman 36:18So, yeah, and typically then we need to get into the ring with those bladder biofilms, and it doesn’t… it doesn’t usually take one or two tests, it’s many tests, because the layers are deep. I’m working with children, too, and even in small kids, they… if they have the right genetics, and if they’re living in an environment that is… that kind of can also push them to make more biofilms, like living in mold, for example, is a huge instigator of inflammation and biofilms, and also, you know, microclots and fibrin in the body. then those layers can go deep. And so, we’re peeling the layers one at a time, and we’re treating what comes out, and supporting people along the way. Dr. Deb 36:57With these microgen tests, can you find biofilms in other parts of the body as well, or is it primarily bladder? Kristin Reihman 37:03No, you can find… you can culture… and you can send a microgen PCR for any… any, you know, secretion you want. So they have a semen test, they have a vaginal test, they have a nasal test, you can send sputum, you can culture out what… you can stick a swab in your ear. There’s all sorts of… anything that you can put a swab in, you can… you can send in there. Oh, that’s awesome, that’s amazing. Yeah. Dr. Deb 37:26So, once you identify the drivers, genetics, environment, stealth infections, what does an effective treatment or reversal process look like for people? Kristin Reihman 37:36For the… for the bladder in particular? Well, I wish I could say it was herbs or oxidation, which are my favorite things for Lyme. I haven’t found those to work for the bladder, and so I’m using antibiotics. Which, even though I’m a Western-trained MD, it was not my bag of tricks. You know, when I left, sort of, the matrix medicine model, I really stopped using those things as much as possible, and I’ve had to come back to them, because they really, really work, and they’re really, really needed. So I love it if someone else out there is getting results with something other than antibiotics, please contact me and let me know, because I have plenty of patients who are like, really? Another antibiotic? I’m like, I know. But they work. We also do a really careful job, you know, I work with Ruth Kriz on every case, and we do a very careful job in finding the drug that’s going to be the least broad spectrum, and that’s really only going to tackle the highest percentage bug there. So, MicroGen does this really cool thing. It’s a PCR, next-gen sequencing, they’re looking at genetics, so you don’t have to have it on ice, it can sit on your countertop for a month, and you can still send it in. And they, they, they categorize by percentage, like, what’s there. And they’re not just looking for the 26 or 28 different bacteria that you would get if you were looking at a culture in your doctor’s office. They’re looking for 57,000 different organisms. Fungal and bacterial, yeah? And so, this is why I say, if there’s something there, and you’ve broken down the biofilm, microgen will find it. Dr. Deb 39:06That’s really great. That was going to be my question, is does it pick up fungal biofilms as well? So I’m so glad you mentioned that, because a lot of times with bladder stuff, it’s fungal in that bladder, too, and then we’re throwing an antibiotic at it and just making it worse if it’s fungal in there. Kristin Reihman 39:21Yeah, yeah, that’s… they… and I recently saw one, I had a little Amish girl who came back with 5 different fungal organisms in her bladder. And a whole flurry, a slurry of bacteria, too. Yeah, pretty sick. And that’s usually an indication that you’re living in mold, honestly. Dr. Deb 39:37Now, conventional medicine treats the bladder as a sterile organ, and rarely looks at biofilms. Why do we believe that this has been overlooked for so long, and what are they missing? Kristin Reihman 39:53Dr. Dr. Deb 39:53I’m loaded up. Kristin Reihman 39:54One of the many mysteries of medicine. I have no idea why people are like, la la la, biofilms. I mean, we know, so when I say we know, so when I trained, you know, I trained at Stanford for my medical school, I trained at Lehigh Valley for residency. Great programs, and I learned that, oh yes, biofilms, they exist in catheters of bladders. When people have an indwelling catheter for more than a month and they spike a fever, it’s a biofilm, but it’s only in the catheter. Really? Why does it stop at the catheter? Dr. Deb 40:23Yeah. Kristin Reihman 40:25Or, you know, now chronic sinusitis, people are recognizing this is a bladder… this is not a bladder, this is a biofilm infection in your sinuses. But we’re really reluctant to kind of admit that there’s, you know, that we’re teeming with microorganisms, that they might be setting up shop, and for good, right? Like, it’d be great if they were in biofilms as opposed to our bloodstream. Like, we don’t want them in our bloodstream, so thankfully they wall themselves off. But yeah, I think they’re everywhere. I mean, they found a microbiome in the brain, in the breast, in the, you know, the lung. There’s microbiome, there’s bugs everywhere. And the question is, are they friend or foe? And the bladder really shouldn’t have anybody in it. Because, think about it, you’re flushing it out, you know, 6 times a day. You know, most people who can break down biofilm because their clotting genetics are normal, and because they’re peeing adequately, will never set up an organism shop in their bladder. Even though things are always crawling up, we’re always peeing them out. Dr. Deb 41:23Yeah. Kristin Reihman 41:23And then there’s the 20% of us who… Who aren’t that way. Dr. Deb 41:30Oh, so you run the Interflow program and a number of healing communities. What tools and teachings have been the most transformational for people going through this journey? And tell us a little bit about the Interflow program, too, please. Kristin Reihman 41:44Okay, maybe I’ll start there, because honestly, I have to think about the which tools are most transformational. The Interflow program is my newest offering, and we developed it because my team and I were looking around at the patients we had, and so many folks were needing to go down this… we call it the microgen journey, like, get on the microgen train and just start that process. And there was just a lot of hand-holding and support, and… education that they were requiring. And by the way, their brains aren’t working that great, because when you have these infections, you know, you’re dealing with, like, downloads of ammonia from time to time from the bladder organisms, you’re dealing with a lot of brain fog, overwhelm, you know, there’s just a lot of… you know how our patients are, they… they… they’re struggling, and they really need a lot of hand-holding, and so we were providing that. But we kept thinking, like, gosh, it would be great to get these guys in community, like you know, we can say all we want, like, you know, it’s important to check your pH, it’s important to, like, stay on top of the whatever, but it’d be great to have them hear that from one another, and to have them also hear, sort of, that they’re not alone. So, because we had some experience running communities online, which we started during the pandemic and has been super successful, we said, let’s do this, let’s create a little online community of our inner… of our, you know, call them… informally, we call them our bladder babes. But, like, let’s create a community of people who are looking to really heal and get to this deep, deep root that no one else is doing. And that was really the key for me, that nobody else is really doing this. Very few people are doing it or aware of it. I wish that weren’t the case, but as it stands now, it’s pretty hard to find someone to take this seriously. Most doctors, if you even take a microgen to them, they’ll say, oh, there’s 10 organisms on here, that’s a contamination. That must be contaminated. Well, yeah, buy your biofilms, but they don’t know about biofilms, so they think it just comes from the lab. Dr. Deb 43:31Something. Kristin Reihman 43:32I don’t know. But, yeah, basically it was because I felt called to do this service that no one else is providing, and I wanted to do it in a way that was going to be really optimally supportive for people. So we created a membership, basically. Dr. Deb 43:44Do you see a difference in men and women? Obviously, women have this problem more than men, but do you see a difference in how many men that have these self-infections or live in mold compared to women? Kristin Reihman 43:57I… it’s hard to know, really, what the, sort of, prevalence is out there, I will say, in terms of who calls our office. Dr. Deb 43:03It’s, you know, 95% women call our office. Kristin Reihman 44:08And occasionally, we’ve had someone call our office on behalf of a husband or a son. I just saw a woman whose 2-year-old son is in our Bladder Babes community. But typically, it’s the women who are seeking care around this, and I don’t know if that’s a function of their having more of the issues. I suspect it is, because as you said before, so many more women deal with these complex mystery illnesses than men.But there certainly are men who have them. Dr. Deb 44:33Yeah. So, you’ve lived through Lyme, chronic illness, stroke, and now biofilm-driven bladder issues, and you’ve come out stronger. What mind shifts helped you stay resilient through all of these chapters? Kristin Reihman 44:50I think there have been many. I think the first one I had to really, Really accept and lean into and kind of internalize. Was this idea that, I… I couldn’t… I didn’t have to do the work that I was doing. Dr. Deb 45:09You know? Kristin Reihman 45:09In order to be of value to the world. You know, I’d trained in a certain way, I had, you know, I had this beautiful practice. I was working in the inner city, I was working with my best friend, we were seeing really needy people who had no money, and it felt really, like, you know, I felt very sort of service-driven and connected to a purpose. And I think the hardest thing in the beginning for me was realizing, I can’t do that work anymore. That’s not the work that I’m… needing to do, and to make a leap into the unknown. It felt like, you know, having a baby at 45 and not doing any ultrasounds, or any tests, and just being like, I’m birthing something here. I don’t know what it is, it’s me, but who knows what she’s gonna look like, or… what this doctor is going to be, you know, what, you know, peddling in terms of her tools. That was a big leap of faith, and I think letting go of the kind of control of needing to be… needing to look a certain way and be a certain kind of doctor was a big step for me, my big initial step. Dr. Deb 46:05That’s really hard, because you’re taught and ingrained in who you’re supposed to be as a doctor, and what that person’s supposed to be, what your persona’s supposed to be. And doing a lot of the Klinghart work and some of those things, and I’m sure on the days crawling through the floor, you’re like, this is not what I was trained to do. If my colleagues could only see me now, they’d… they’d… Commit me, right? But like you said, just giving that leap of faith and saying, I’m gonna turn this over to your higher power, and you’re gonna bring me out on the other side, and trusting that, that is a vulnerability for us that is huge. Kristin Reihman 46:43Yeah, and I mean, I’d like to say it’s because I’m some sort of strong person, but truthfully, I feel like there was no other choice. Like, I had to surrender because there was… the alternative was death or something. I didn’t… I don’t know, right? There was no other choice. Dr. Deb 46:56Yeah. Kristin Reihman 46:56I couldn’t move. I was in so much pain. I couldn’t move. Couldn’t get out of bed. Dr. Deb 47:01Thank you so much for sharing all of this and being vulnerable with our audience. Where can people find you? Find your book, your podcast, your programs, if they want to go deeper with you? Kristin Reihman 47:12Yeah, thanks for asking. So, I have a website, it’s my name, kristenRymanMD.com, and all my programs are listed there. I have several, you know, I have a, sort of, a wellness… I have an online membership for well people who want to stay well and pick my brain every week around, sort of, healthy, holistic tools. It’s called The Healing Grove.I have a podcast that people can listen to for free, where I interview people like you, and you’re gonna be on it, right? She’s gonna be on it soon. Dr. Deb 47:38I’d love to. Kristin Reihman 47:39So I can share stories of hope and transformational tools with people. I also have a Life After Lyme coaching program, which is kind of the place where I invite people who are dealing with a mystery illness to come get some support, community, and guidance from someone like me, and also just from the other people in the room. There’s a lot of wisdom in those groups. And that’s… I guess that’s the answer I’ll share for what you asked earlier, like, what’s the main tool they take away? I think they take away an understanding that community really matters, and that they’re not alone. You know, I think it can be very lonely to be stuck in these… to feel stuck in these illnesses, and people need to be reminded that they’re… that they’re human, you know, and that they’re worthy of love and acceptance. I think that’s what people get from my… from my community, is kind of like, that’s the common thread. Dr. Deb 48:23They definitely need that. Kristin Reihman 48:25Man. Dr. Deb 48:26Kirsten, thank you so much for sharing your powerful story. Your work is so needed, and your ability to weave personal experience and advanced clinical insight is exactly what our community craves. And this kind of conversation helps women finally be seen and heard, which is my motto too, and gives them just the real tools to get their life back. And for everyone listening, if you’re struggling with unexplained bladder pain, frequent UTIs, pelvic discomfort, or symptoms that never match your labs, because they never quite do. You are not crazy, you are not alone. You need to find the answers, you need to be with community, and there are solutions, and conversations like this is how we bring them forward. So, thank you all for tuning in to Let’s Talk Wellness Now. I’m your host.And until next time… Kristin Reihman 49:15Thanks, Dr. Dove. Dr. Deb 49:16Thank you. This was awesome. Thank you so much. This was… Kristin Reihman 49:21You’re so welcome, you’re such a great interviewer.The post Episode 251 – Chronic Bladder Symptoms, Biofilms, and the Hidden Genetic Drivers first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

Sunday AM ServiceLuke 15:11-32I. The Rebellious Younger SonII. The Loving FatherIII. The Unforgiving Older SonSupport the show

Samaria była góra należącą do Szemera. Słowo Samaria znaczy właśnie - należąca do Szemera. Nic więcej nie wiemy o tym człowieku. Od niego górę kupił król Omri. W 1 Królów 16:24 czytamy: “Potem nabył za dwa talenty srebra od Szemera górę Szomron i obwarował tę górę, i nazwał gród, który zbudował, Samaria według imienia właściciela tej góry Szemera”.Jaką funkcję pełniło to miasto? W Izajasza 7:9 czytamy: “stolicą Efraima jest Samaria, a głową Samarii jest syn Remaliasza”. Efraim był najważniejszym plemieniem północnego królestwa Izrael. Tak więc Samaria była stolicą tego państwa. Historia tego miejsca zaczęła się już wcześniej. Prawdopodobnie właśnie tam mieszkał jeden z sędziów.W Sędziów 10:1 czytamy: “Po Abimelechu wystąpił, aby ratować Izraela, Tola, syn Pui, wnuk Doda, z plemienia Issachara; mieszkał on w Szamir na pogórzu efraimskim”. Ten sędzia został tam też pochowany. Wydaje się, że w tym właśnie miejscu zbudowano później Samarię, stolicę 10-plemiennego królestwa Izraela.Współcześnie niedaleko arabskiej wioski Sabastia (Sebastia) znajdują się ruiny Szomron. To prawdopodobnie jest pozostałość po Samarii. Była to góra o płaskim szczycie, a więc idealna do zbudowania miasta. Jej wysokość to jakieś 90 m.Omri zbudował miasto Samaria. Jego syn Achab ożenił się z Fenicjanką Jezebel. W 1 Królewskiej 16:32 czytamy: “I wzniósł ołtarz Baalowi w świątyni Baala, którą zbudował w Samarii”. Oprócz tego zbudował jeszcze pałac z kości słoniowej jak czytamy w 1 Królewskiej 22:39.Za rządów Achaba Samaria była oblegana dwa razy. Najpierw przez Asyryjczyków, a potem przez Syryjczyków, ale nie została zdobyta. Później za rządów jego syna Syryjczycy powrócili. W 2 Królewskiej 6:25 czytamy: “I nastał w Samarii wielki głód, gdy ją oblężono”. Samarii jednak także wtedy nie zdobyto. W 2 Królewskiej 17:6 czytamy: “W dziewiątym roku panowania Ozeasza król asyryjski zdobył Samarię, uprowadził Izraela do Asyrii”. Ponownie przybyli Asyryjczycy, zniszczyli to miasto, a jego mieszkańców uprowadzili. Później to samo miało spotkać Jerozolimę. W Izajasza 10:11 czytamy: “Jak uczyniłem Samarii i jej bałwanom, tak uczynię Jeruzalemowi i jego bałwanom”.Na te tereny Asyryjczycy sprowadzili ludzi z innych części swojego imperium. Ich krainę nazywano Samarią, a ich samych Samarytanami. Gdy Żydzi wrócili z niewoli babilońskiej zamieszkali w Judzie i w Galilei. Te dwa terytoria były przedzielone Samarią czyli krainą Samarytan.Miasto zostało odbudowanie, ale potem zniszczył je Aleksander Wielki. Potem zniszczyli je Hasmoneusze, a konkretnie Jan Hyrkan. Ponownie odbudował je Herod Wielki i nazwał Sebaste. Jest to żeńska forma tytułu August po grecku. Herod zbudował tam stadion, świątynię dla cezara i drugą dla Persefony. Sprowadzono tam nie-Żydów.Właśnie w tym mieście Herod Wielki kazał zamordować dwóch swoich synów, których miał ze swojej drugiej żony Mariamne. Ją kazał zabić wcześniej. Tych synów sądził przed cezarem Augustem, który miał podobno powiedzieć, że lepiej jest być świnią Heroda niż jego synem. Herod kazał ich przywieźć do Sebaste i tutaj jego dwaj synowie zostali uduszeni.Nazwa, którą nadał Herod Wielki pozostała do naszych czasów. Ruiny Samarii znajdują się blisko palestyńskiej wioski Sebaste. Warto je zwiedzić, ale trzeba pamiętać, że miasto to było wielokrotnie burzone i odbudowywane. Poza tym Jezus je omijał. W Jana 4:5 czytamy: “Przybył więc do miasta samarytańskiego, zwanego Sychar”. Jezus gdy przechodził przez Samarię omijał Sebaste. Dlaczego?W Sebaste czyli w odbudowanej przez Heroda Samarii mieszkali nie-Żydzi. W Mateusza 15:24 znajdujemy słowa Jezusa: “A On, odpowiadając, rzekł: Jestem posłany tylko do owiec zaginionych z domu Izraela”. Jezus koncentrował się na Żydach. Omijał więc miasta zamieszkałe przez Greków i Rzymian. To samo tyczy się Tyberiady nad Jeziorem Galilejskim. Nie ma żadnych dowodów na to, aby Jezus odwiedzał takie miasta.Podsumowując. Samaria była góra należącą do Szemera. Na tej górze mieszkał chyba sędzia Tola. Później kupił ją Omri, szósty król północnego 10-plemiennego królestwa Izraela. Omri pokonał wrogów. Miał więc czas i środki na budowę nowej stolicy. Jego syn Achab sprowadził do Samarii kult Baala i Asztarte. Księga 1 Królów oraz prorok Amos wspominają też o domu z kości słoniowej, który zbudował Achab. Archeologia to potwierdziła.Na te tereny przybyli Samarytanie i cały region zaczęto nazywać Samarią. Samo miasto zniszczył Aleksander Wielki, a potem hasmonejski król Jan Hirkan. Odbudował je Pompejusz Wielki, a potem Herod Wielki, który zmienił jego nazwę na Sebaste. Już chyba Pompejusz osiedlił tam nie-Żydów. Z tego powodu miasto to omijał Jezus. Nazwa nadana przez Heroda dotrwała do naszych czasów. Gdybyście chcieli zwiedzić to miejsce jedźcie do arabskiej wioski Sebastia.Potem nabył za dwa talenty srebra od Szemera górę Szomron i obwarował tę górę, i nazwał gród, który zbudował, Samaria według imienia właściciela tej góry Szemera.https://biblia-online.pl/Biblia/Warszawska/1-Ksiega-Krolewska/16/24A stolicą Efraima jest Samaria, a głową Samarii jest syn Remaliasza. Jeżeli nie uwierzycie, nie ostaniecie się.https://biblia-online.pl/Biblia/Warszawska/Ksiega-Izajasza/7/9Po Abimelechu wystąpił, aby ratować Izraela, Tola, syn Pui, wnuk Doda, z plemienia Issachara; mieszkał on w Szamir na pogórzu efraimskim.https://biblia-online.pl/Biblia/Warszawska/Ksiega-Sedziow/10/1I wzniósł ołtarz Baalowi w świątyni Baala, którą zbudował w Samarii.https://biblia-online.pl/Biblia/Warszawska/1-Ksiega-Krolewska/16/32I nastał w Samarii wielki głód, gdy ją oblężono, tak że doszła cena łba oślego do osiemdziesięciu srebrników, a ćwierć wiadra gnoju gołębiego do pięciu srebrników.https://biblia-online.pl/Biblia/Warszawska/2-Ksiega-Krolewska/6/25W dziewiątym roku panowania Ozeasza król asyryjski zdobył Samarię, uprowadził Izraela do Asyrii i osadził ich tam w Chalach i nad Chaborem, rzeką Gozanu i w miastach medyjskich.https://biblia-online.pl/Biblia/Warszawska/2-Ksiega-Krolewska/17/6Jak uczyniłem Samarii i jej bałwanom, tak uczynię Jeruzalemowi i jego bałwanomhttps://biblia-online.pl/Biblia/Warszawska/Ksiega-Izajasza/10/11Przybył więc do miasta samarytańskiego, zwanego Sychar, blisko pola, które Jakub dał swemu synowi Józefowi.https://biblia-online.pl/Biblia/Warszawska/Ewangelia-Jana/4/5A On, odpowiadając, rzekł: Jestem posłany tylko do owiec zaginionych z domu Izraela.https://biblia-online.pl/Biblia/Warszawska/Ewangelia-Mateusza/15/24

2 Corinthians 5:16-21; Luke 15:11b-32I have come to believeThat it's harder to cry under an open sky.So when life falls apart, throw open the windows.Invite the sun into your shadows.Lie in the grass and let the sun mistake you for flowers.Maybe this is step one in cultivating—For flowers do not grow by mistake.They need the sun, just like we need love,And time,And the grace to try again.So put your body where the light is.You'll find God there.She is warmth.You will know it.And you will feel strong.So put your body where the light is.Maybe this is step one.-SEEKING PRESENCE CULTIVATE

0:14Good morning, good morning, good afternoon.0:15How are you doing out there in the world?0:18And well, this is a revamp of prepare responder covers program we put on last two, oh, guess two years ago, right, We started with it.0:29I'm looking into all different aspects of what it is to respond to large scale emergencies and not just Emergency Management. Still, we're looking at law, fire, EMS, private industry, public side of things.0:47It's a broad brush.0:49And so I'm excited.0:51And so Todd and I, Todd Manzat is the 2 Todd's here.0:55Start talking about it, what it is and, and, and you know, he's got some really great insight.1:01I've known Todd for a while now.1:04And as you can tell here, the Blue Cell is the premier sponsor of this program.1:08And so I want to thank Todd for that.1:10And Todd, welcome.1:11Welcome to our show, I guess, for lack of better term.1:14Hey, well, thanks, thanks for the welcome.1:16And, you know, it was, it was kind of funny as we were kind of batting this around at the end of last year and, you know, here we are now getting ready to kind of jump right into it.1:29But certainly the world's events have helped us to have at least some stuff to talk about in the last 30 days.1:38It feels like it's April already.1:40And I know we'll get into a little bit of that.1:42But thanks for having me.1:43I'm glad to be part of it.1:46I think this is the longest January I've ever lived, Right?1:53Well, it's, you know, in some ways we're thinking back a little bit to, you know, what's going on.1:58I was in New Orleans this week and the events of New Year's Eve are in the distant past when they're worried about the Super Bowl.2:06They had a snowstorm and they had a a Sugar Bowl.2:09And it's, it's really interesting that the tempo right now is as real as it gets with regards to, you know, what we are going to be talking about here, you know, interested about that.2:22It's like, you know, obviously the, the events of January 1st with both New Orleans and Vegas, how quickly it came out of, out of the news cycle because you know, fires happened in, in, in California, you know, and that kept us hopping over here.2:40You know, obviously you guys all know that I live in, well, maybe not everybody, but I, I live in Southern California.2:46And so those fires directly impacted my area, not necessarily where I live, but close enough to where I have friends that lost homes and stuff in the fire.2:57So, I mean, and then then we got rain right after that, which is causing problems.3:03And then there's snow storms in in Louisiana in the South that's causing problems there.3:07And we're still not recovering from Hurricane Helene, You know, And then in the midst of all this, we get a new presidential administration, which is definitely moving fast, you know, And yeah, so are, are we going to be able to take your breath?3:28Well, you know, I don't know that we have a choice, right?3:30It's that kind of race.3:32And, you know, being as ready as we can be in different places, that's kind of part of it.3:38So that the folks who are sprinting as fast as they can can be relieved.3:41And one of the things that was interesting when I was in, in Louisiana this past week, they were talking about barring snow plows from another state.3:49Who, who does know how to do that, you know, pretty interestingly.3:52And then obviously, unfortunately, the events in DC with the, with the plane crash as the, you know, the most recent thing, another really, you know, significant type of event and response.4:09Just hearing, you know, some of the press conference stuff where they're talking about, you know, the things that, you know, I teach all the time, Unified command 300 responders out there.4:21Got to replace those responders.4:23Got a lot going on, got a lot of media, right.4:26All those aspects of something that makes any kind of response a little more complex.4:34Definitely it's going to be a a fun filled year of topics if we stay at this at this pace for sure.4:44Yeah, I want to talk about that plane crash here for forbid, not not about the plane crunch itself, but about how as a those of us in the field, you know, I know a whole bunch of people that are traveling at any given time.5:01I mean, you're one of them, a couple of friends down in Texas.5:05You have a friend of mine who carries Fronza, who's the president of IEM, who she was travelling during this time.5:13And I went to my, my, my click box of, oh, who do I need?5:17Who do I need to call to see if they're impacted by this?5:20And even if it's something as far away as DC, you know, and now you're going, oh, crap.5:25I mean, I called you or at least reached out to you to see if you know if you're travelling yet.5:30So you don't.5:30It's just this is amazing, like how small of a world we truly are when it comes to that.5:36And then I have friends that work and you do too, Todd, you know, that work in the capital that a part of Metro and and and DC fire and Fairfax fire.5:46And you know, you, you see this happening.5:48You're going, these are people who you know closely that are already impacted by this event, let alone the tragedy of the those lives that were lost, you know, in this tragic accident.6:01And I think that's part of the thing with what we do here between you and myself and, and the, and the organizations that, you know, we do touch every aspect of, of the United States and at some point global when it comes to Emergency Management, We're going to be able to bring those, that perspective to, to the this conversation.6:24Yeah.6:24I think the, the other thing that kind of jumped out at me was, you know, trying to think back through the history and, and certainly some of the legacy media folks were talking about the last time we had a crash and how long ago it was.6:38And in fact, I don't know if you picked up on it.6:41That last one was Buffalo and obviously Buffalo, NY.6:46You've got connections to that place, right?6:48Yeah, yeah, right.6:52And I'm headed to Binghamton, NY next Friday, which is not that far down the road.6:57So it's, you know, to bring it somewhat full circle, preparedness, response and recovery are interconnected.7:05All these disciplines are interconnected.7:09How we do things, we're trying to make them as interconnected, you know, as possible.7:17And I think it's going to be the right conversation, especially when we bring some doctrinal things in and and talking about some specific topics and then trying to overlay it to things that are really happening.7:31I think that's going to be one of the unique things about the conversation, hopefully, as we move the show forward.7:38Yeah, absolutely.7:39And I think the other thing too, Todd, that you know, you and I have some really deep conversations, you know, when it comes to the state of Emergency Management, the state of disaster response, you know, where where we need to go and how to get there.7:57And you know, the fact that we have a kind of book in this thing here, but we have progressive states that look at Emergency Management and disaster response and disaster preparedness and planning as holistic, right?8:13So that means like fire, police, EMS, public works, right, that we always forget, you know, public health, they're all involved in the conversation.8:23And then you have some States and somewhere areas that are myopic, right?8:27And they're very much silos on everything they they do.8:30I think some of the conversation that we're going to have here is hopefully to break down those silos and and be able to have those full conversations that we are all hazards approach to everything that we look at.8:42And I think that's critical, right?8:45And I think also in the, you know, our show concept, and I think it's important to share, you know, in this first episode, it won't just be me and you hanging out with each other.8:55I think our concept of bringing in guests as a, a third element to the show, a third voice, I think will be important.9:04I know you're working on lining up a few.9:06I'm working on lining up a few.9:08It'll be exciting.9:09And, you know, as we move into the coming weeks to get that guest line up out to folks and they can kind of hear a perspective and we'll definitely, you know, be leveraging our relationships.9:21I think to to bring in some strong, strong individuals to give a dynamic focus on, you know, what we're talking about.9:31And Speaking of relationships, I mean, you know, the other good part about this too is Todd, you and I both have some good relationships with some people that can bring really great insight.9:43And so we'll be leveraging those relationships as well to be able to bring you the audience some more insight to what what's happening in, in close to real time as possible.9:53And then of course, you know, my position with IEM allow some conversations to to happen as well.10:01And the Today as an example, well, we, we have to talk a little bit about the, the elephant in the room is what's going on with FEMA.10:10The, the president has set forth his vision on, on making changes.10:16And I don't think there's an emergency manager in the United States right now that doesn't think the Stafford Act needs to be, you know, looked at and, and fixed, right?10:30You know, it's an old act, right?10:33And that FEMA does need to have, you know, to be maybe remodeled a little bit.10:38Sure.10:39I, I definitely don't think it should be destroyed and taken away, But you know, where does it belong and, and, and how does it work?10:47And you know, I've been calling for a few years now.10:49Well, let's say probably over 10 years now that FEMA should be a stand alone agency.10:53And there's, there's cons and pros for both for, for all of this, right?10:59And then today I got to sit down with the acting administrator, Hamilton to hear a little bit about his background and what his, his, you know, his goals are.11:11And the good thing is, is what he's doing right now is listening to the emergency managers out there, meeting with the big groups such as IEM and Nima, big cities, meeting with them to discuss what their needs and goals and, and desires are when it comes to what FEMA is and can be.11:34And I think it's a really important first step.11:37And I, and I commend them for that.11:40Yeah.11:40You know, the, the, the basic rules and kind of organizational leadership are you, you got to, got to figure out what your objectives are, to figure out what your mission is, that type of thing.11:51And, and many times it's a driving factor in where you end up or who you're working for working under and, and how it's supposed to work.12:00I think, you know, that revisit it's, it's not something necessarily that, you know, every time you get a new leader in that you need to do that, But you also can't go 20 or 30 or 40 years and have problems and not do it.12:16And you know, there obviously is a, has been for some time a heartbeat out there saying, Hey, let's let's have it as a, a cabinet member.12:27And my position is whether it's a cabinet member or not, it's still going to come down to the mission, the organization, understanding what the mission is and the talent that's inside the organization.12:40I was in this little teeny organization for a short time called the United States Marine Corps.12:45It's a it's a branch under a department, but everybody knows who we are.12:51Everybody knows what we do because we've got a clear mission.12:53I've had it for 250 years and we're the best at what we do.12:57So in some ways, when you do it well, it doesn't matter that you're not equal to the Department of the Navy and under the Department of the Navy, just as an example.13:09And so I think that's going to be a hard, long conversation and a lot of work that'll have to be done to establish that capability that is not only understood but is respected and is effective in the field.13:27Because that's what's been coming into question is it's effectiveness in the field.13:31Where it sits organizationally probably doesn't have much to do with that.13:35So I think it'll be interesting moving forward.13:39I'm not watching from afar.13:40Certainly have a lot of folks that I'm talking to that are, they're nervous and they're trying to, you know, decipher what's happening and figure it out and where do I fit in?13:51In the end, you got to do the best job that you can and not have that question because you did the best job that could be done.13:58And so I I think that'll be something worth talking about moving forward and, and watching how it kind of transpires.14:08Yeah, absolutely.14:09And, and you're right, I think nervousness, I think is a good word to say.14:13Uncertainty, right?14:14It breeds nervousness a little bit.14:15And I think that's kind of where we're at.14:17And, you know, the current administration's communication style is, is interesting at the at the best or at the worst, I suppose, or whichever we look at it is sometimes I believe, you know, President Trump just floats things out there just to see how people react.14:34And, you know, he's a, he's interesting guy that way.14:40And I think it takes a little bit of time to get used to that style of communication.14:45Whether you agree with it or not.14:46It just says it is what it is, right?14:48You know, not just talking about the yeah, go ahead.14:55I was going to say that.14:56I was just going to judge.15:01We all have to get used to how Manhattan downtown developers do business.15:08That's, that's what we have to get used to.15:10And, and most of us haven't had to deal with that.15:13So it's a, it's a different way that things get done.15:17There's no question.15:19Yeah, absolutely.15:20And like I said, I'm not, I'm not judging it.15:23I'm not putting a value to it.15:24I'm just saying it is what it is.15:25And this is what we have to deal with.15:26You know, I, I think as emergency managers and, and, and guys that are in the field, you know, when we're looking at situations, we have to understand that we don't have time to placate on whether we agree with something or not.15:43We just have to deal with the consequences of what's happening.15:45And, and, and this is where we're at.15:47We have to deal with the consequences that, that, that are happening.15:51And so, you know, that being said, you know, what is the future of Emergency Management when it comes to to what the federal government believes in?16:03That's going to be a long conversation.16:05You know, you know, and we, we have a long history of things changing.16:13And I think we forget this because, you know, we we live in the generation that we're in, right?16:20And we may look back at the previous generations, but we live in where we're at and what we're used to and in that comfort zone.16:28And, you know, I think if we reflect back to when, you know, Franklin Donald Roosevelt created an office that would look at Emergency Management, if you will, without using the terminology.16:39It's where we grew up from, you know, to Truman turned it into really the civil defense of what we think of today, you know, with the Burt the Turtle and all that nuclear stuff that they were dealing with.16:50And and then it kind of got to Jimmy Carter at this point where he turned it into FEMA in 79.16:56And then, of course, the Stafford Act.16:58These are chunks that we didn't live in, right?17:01You know, some I, I, you know, realistically, Todd, you and I, we're from, you know, 70s into the, to the 80s when we were, you know, kids and then we're working.17:12The experience has been this short box.17:14So we look at these boxes that we've lived in and not understanding what the, what the history was and what the changes are.17:20So, so this too, you know, will be a little uncomfortable, but maybe it's uncomfortable that we need to be better.17:28And if we look at it that way and, and as long as we're part of the conversation, that's my only concern is if we start having conversation without us, then what does that mean?17:38Right, right.17:40And I think the, the other thing, just analyzing it a little bit as an outsider looking in, I think what are the alternatives going to be?17:51You know, they're, they're talking about a few alternatives and, and putting pressure or responsibility in other places, like for example, the states.18:00Well, they better do a true analysis of whether that capability is actually there.18:07It sounds great and it probably looks good on paper, but there's going to be a harsh reality that that may not be the answer.18:17And I'm, I'm not going to call out any one state or any 10 states or any 25 states.18:22I'm just going to say there will be serious questions as to whether certain states can take on those previous FEMA responsibilities.18:33And I think it could be a bigger mess and a bigger tragedy if that's not really looked at very, very hard and and very critically in terms of what the capabilities actually are in some of those locations.18:51You know, I think about the fires that we just had here in Los Angeles County and one of the last fires that kicked off as this thing was burning, you know, they were able to put 4000 firefighters onto a fire in in a very short period of time to stop it from burning up the town of Castaic or the village, I guess, right.19:13We got lucky in one aspect that there were already firefighters down here from all over the place that we can, we, we can move those assets over.19:20You know, that's one state.19:23State of California is unique in that aspect of it.19:26I mean, I don't think and, and I'm going to pick on a state and I mean, I can, you know, if, if you fear for that state, please let me, I'm telling you, I don't know the assets.19:35So I'm not not saying that you can't do it.19:37But if you took like Montana, for instance, who has lot of wild land fires, I don't know if they could put in in in 30 minutes of a fire kicking off, Could they put 4000 firefighters on that fire in 30 minutes of a kicking off?19:52Or Colorado for that matter, where you're from, you know, do they have those assets?19:57And, and maybe they do, maybe they don't, but that's the difference between having mutual aid and the federal government coming in to be able to pay for things on the back end than it is to to not right.20:09And and again, maybe Montana and Colorado could put those assets on their.20:13I'm not, I'm not trying to say that you're not on issues as an example, I want to be clear on that.20:19But you know, without federal assistance immediately, can the smaller states handle those large scale disasters as quickly as they can right now?20:34Sure.20:34I yeah, I definitely think that's, you know, that resource management piece is a is a big aspect of it.20:40But let's say you're a week into it, do some of the states have the ability to even manage that?20:50You know, when we start to think about some of the large scale operations and you know, maybe maybe you have an Emergency Management office, full time staff of 20 people that may not have, you know, the ability or the experience of handling, you know, that type of complexity.21:11That is the word that always bothers me.21:16The, the actual complexity.21:18You know, incident command speaks to it quite a bit.21:21We've got a pretty good system for incident command.21:23We've got a pretty good system at the top tier of who manages complex incidents and who's qualified to manage complex incidents.21:32Well, you know, some of that would somewhat come into question if you don't have that guidance from, from FEMA or even some of their support from an IMAP perspective.21:42And then we're that we're going to rely on a state agency of, of 16 people to, to be able to do it.21:51I don't know.21:52I I think it's definitely something that it's going to be a, a bridge we have to cross if that's the direction that we end up going.22:00Yeah, absolutely.22:01And, and, and going back to some of the smaller states.22:03And I'll pick on Maine here for a minute because I was talking, I was talking to one of the guys from Maine and they have volunteer emergency managers, you know, you know, and I'm like, well, and it blew my mind when we had this conversation with him.22:22I'm like, you know, I I never thought about that, that you have a town, you know, a state that's so, you know, sparsely populated in some areas that they just have some dude who's like, all right, I'll, I'll do it for a volunteer.22:34You know, like that means you get your regular day job that you're doing and in the evening, maybe you're, you know, you're doing Emergency Management stuff.22:42Yeah, that kind of that kind of blows my mind a little bit.22:45So, you know, what do we do with states like that that don't even have the ask the the ability to pay for emergency managers, you know, to live in what?22:53I mean, you know, how do we ask?22:56How do we?22:56And the support doesn't necessarily, you know, I want to rewind the minute, the support doesn't necessarily have to be be people on the ground, right?23:05You know, those volunteer emergency managers in Maine may have the the capabilities of doing it as on a volunteer basis because they don't have a lot of disasters that occurred.23:13That's fine.23:13I'm not, I'm not making fun of that position.23:17What I'm saying is they need support and the support that they might get might just be from training, you know, grants to help pay for things because obviously their tax base is going to be lower.23:29So they may need those, those grants from from the federal government to to pay for programs, you know, the send people to EMI or whatever they change their name to, you know, you know, for, for training, you know, the university.23:50Is that the university?23:52FEMA you or, or, you know, used to be FEMA you.23:56yeah.com.23:58Good Lord.23:59Something we're going to, we're going to send us hate mail.24:02Jeff Stearns, Doctor Stearns, We're not making fun of you, man.24:05We're just right.24:12Excuse me, but yeah.24:14I mean, we go into this like, how do we support those smaller states that don't have big budgets?24:20I'm lucky to be from living in California and from New York, which are, you know, have big budgets, but I mean, heck, even New York State, you know, I mean, if you want to take a look at the responders in New York State, there's the majority of the responders in New York State are volunteer.24:41You know, it's one of the states that there are more Volunteer Fire departments in New York State than paid, you know, So what does that look like?24:50And, and what support are they getting from, from the federal government, whether it's through FEMA, the National Forest Service, I help it out with, with different grants and stuff.25:00The you, you know, out here in, in the West Coast, we have BLM, which has firefighting assets and things that could be used.25:09There's a lot of stuff that National Forest Service.25:12There's a lot of stuff that we're relying upon and maybe even too much, right?25:17Maybe that's the back of our mind and and we're relying on those, those assets.25:22You don't compare it to saying let's pretend they don't exist, right?25:26I don't know.25:28That's the stuff I think is making a lot of people nervous about some of the changes that are going on right now of the unknown answers to unknown questions.25:39Yeah.25:41Well, it's going to be interesting.25:42It's going to be good.25:43And we'll kind of start to figure out right the next, next episode and who knows who's going to be in what jobs.25:54So we, we may, we may get a, a really good guess right as we, as we move forward or some of the folks who've previously been in those positions that give us some insight.26:06I think that's really our goal.26:10Absolutely.26:11Well, Todd, you know, we're trying to keep these within that 30 minute window and we're coming up to the last few minutes here on our conversation.26:22Is there anything that you'd like to say to the listeners out there that are coming back and, and how do we, you know, to the new listeners that might be just finding us?26:32I say, you know, TuneIn and we definitely will keep it interested and keep it moving from that perspective and, and give some feel reporting too.26:41That's one of the things I know that we've talked about that we want to incorporate here because I think it'll give a little bit different feel to to the conversation.26:52But I think this was a good one to get us started and look forward to talking to you next week.27:00Absolutely, my friend.27:01Looking forward to seeing you next week.27:03It's always, it's always nice to see that big smile right there very often.27:09Right.27:09Yeah.27:11All right, all right, everybody, until next time, you know, stay safe and well, stay hydrated. 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OPEN HEAVENSMATALA LE LAGI MO LE ASO TOONAI  28 TESEMA 2024(tusia e Pastor EA Adeboye) Manatu Autu: Tofotofo Ia Te Oe Lava - Examine Yourself Tauloto -Tusi Paia– 2 Korinito 13:5 “Inā tofotofo ia ‘outou ‘iā te ‘outou, po ‘ua ‘outou i le fa‘atuatua; ‘inā su‘esu‘e ifo ia ‘iā te ‘outou; pe tou te lē iloa ‘ea o ‘outou loto, ‘ua i totonu ‘iā te ‘outou o Iesu Keriso, pe ‘āfai ‘ua lē pepelo ‘outou?” Faitauga – Tusi Paia – 1 Korinito 11:31-32I le Tusi o Isaia 6:1-5, sa vaai Isaia I le mamalu ma le Paia o le Atua ona ia alaga lea ua tagi ma faapea “Aue a'u nei!” A o le'i o'o i lea taimi, sa ia fai perofetaga ma sa vaai uma tagata ia te ia e paia. Peita'i na vaai Isaia ia te ia i le malamalama o le mamalu ma le paia o le Atua ma ia iloa ai le tulaga moni sa ia i ai.Le au pele e, e tāua le fai o le suesuega a le tagata lava ia ia te ia mai lea taimi i lea taimi. Aua e te tu'u tasi i faamatalaga a tagata e uiga ia te oe aua atonu latou te lē iloa lelei oe pei ona e iloaina o oe lava. E lē iloa e tagata mafaufauga o lou loto poo mea e te fai pe a tuua na o oe. O lea la, e te manaomia lou silasila toto'a ia te oe lava ma faatino se suesuega faamaoni o le tulaga moni o lou loto.Aua e te faamasinoa oe lava e fua i ou lava manatu; ae fua lou tagata faatatau i tapulaa a le Atua. Fai mai le Tusi Paia I le 2 Korinito 10:18 e lē talia o lē ua vivi'i o ia ia te ia, a o lē ua viia e le Alii. Atonu na fai le faamasinoga a Isaia ia te ia lava i ana lava fua fa'atatau, peitai ina ua fetaia'i ma le mamalu o le Atua, na ia vaaia ai le tele o le faaletonu o lona tagata sa i ai. Faamasino lou tagata i le malamalama o le moni I le Upu a le Atua; o le ala lea e faailoa atu ai ia te oe poo sa'o lou ala pe leai. Aua e te faamasino ia te oe, e fua i ou lagona, upu a tagata, poo mea ua e ausia. Faaaoga le upu a le Atua pei o se fa'ata, e faasino atu ia te oe, lou ituaiga tagata moni. A uma ona e fuatia oe e fua faatatau i le upu a le Atua, ofo atoatoa loa lou ola mo ia ma fai i ai e fesoasoani mai ia te oe ia e ola tonu.Ina ua uma le tulaga na o'o i ai Isaia i le Isaia 6:1-5, na ia iloa ai, pau le ala e mafai ai ona moni lona faapaiaina, o le fesoasoani mai o le Atua. E lē mafai ona e amiotonu i sou lava malosi; e te matua'i mana'omia le Atua e fesoasoani iā te oe. Fai mai le Salamo 20:1-2; e ao ona e tatalo ia auina mai e le Alii le fesoasoani iā te oe mai le malumalu. Sei vagana ua e iloa e te manaomia le fesoasoani, faatoa tuuina mai le fesoasoani mai le malumalu. E tatau ona e tumau i luma o le faata o le upu a le Atua seia e maua le fesoasoani e tupu ai le amiotonu. Aua e te pei o le tagata o loo faamatala I le Iakopo 1:22-24; tumau ma taofimau i le upu a le Atua.Fai mai le 1 Korinito 11:31 auā afai ana tatou faamasino ia te i tatou, po ua lē faasalaina i tatou. O lona uiga a uma ona e su'esu'e ma tofotofo ia te oe lava, iloa ou faaletonu, ma faatino fesuiaiga tonu, o le a le faasalaina oe pe a o'o I le aso faamasino.Le au pele e, ou te tatalo ia fai ma au masani le su'esu'e ifo ia te oe lava e tusa ma tapulaa a le Atua, e te maua ai se faamanuia mai le Tupu Silisili I le aso gataaga, I le suafa o Iesu. Amene.

OPEN HEAVENSMATALA LE LAGI MO LE ASO TOONAI 16 NOVEMA 2024(tusia e Pastor EA Adeboye) Manatu Autu: Tusi Paia, Itupa ma feusuaiga 3.  (The Bible, gender and sexuality 3) Tauloto -Tusi Paia–Efeso 4:25 “O lenei, ‘ia ‘outou tu‘u ‘ese le pepelo, ‘ia tautalatala fa‘amaoni ta‘itasi ma lē la te tuā‘oi; auā o itū tino lava tatou o le tasi i le tasi.”‭‭Faitauga – Tusi Paia –Roma 1:20-32I le taualuga o le lesona na o'u amata i aso e lua ua mavae fa'atatau i itupa ma feusuaiga, o le a o'u faasoa atu ma oe se a'oa'oga na o'u maua. I ni tausaga ua mavae, sa o'u I se atunuu i Sisifo ou te lauga ai, ma na faatalanoa a'u e se tusitala faatatau i so'u manatu e uiga i ulugalii a le tama ma le tama, ma le teine ma le teine poo itupa tutusa. Na o'u tali i le uso na faatalanoaina a'u, na faia e le Atua tane ma fafine ia fanafanau. Ona o'u fesili lea, “E mafai ea e tagata itupa tutusa ona fanau ni fanau?” Na fa'ai'u la'u faamatalaga i lo'u fai atu, afai o tagata uma o le a faaipoipo i se isi la te itupa tutusa, o le a uma ai i le lalolagi i le augātupulaga lenei.Faapei o se atali'i/afafine o le Atua, so'o se taimi e te maua ai le avanoa e te talanoa ai faatatau i feusuaiga faa Sotoma ma Komoro aua e te ‘alo ma taamilomilo solo lau talanoa. O le mafuaaga o le sasao fa'aafi o le amioleaga ona o le fefefe o tagata lelei e ta'u le mea moni. Aua e te gūgū pe a fai atu tagata o latou e tosina o latou loto i feusuaiga ma tagata o la latou lava itupa. Aua e te faamasino pe fa'asala ia i latou, a ia ta'u ia i latou le mea moni ma le alofa. O le fa'asala o i latou e na o le faatupu ai o le misa, ma o lo tatou Atua e lē o se Atua o fa'asalaga, a o le Atua o le alofa. Talanoa i ai i le alofa, a ia faasino pea ia i latou upu o le Tusi Paia, o mea o o latou faia e lē mai le Atua auā o loo manino i lana upu e inosia e ia amioga faapea. Ta'u ia i latou e te augofie e tatalo ma i latou ma fesoasoani ia fa'asa'oloto i latou mai nei lagona.O le faitauga mai le Tusi Paia o le asō ua ta'u mai ai ia i tatou le mea e tupu i tagata pe a tu'u pea i o latou mafaufau leaga; o ia tagata e lē mafai ona i'u lelei vagana ua salamō. Tumau e tete'e i feusuaiga I le va o tagata itupa tutusa, ma fai mea uma e te mafaia e faaali atu ai i tagata faapea le ala sa'o e tatau ona soifua ai o loo tusia i le Tusi Paia. Na tu mau Lota e tete'e atu i feusuaiga fa'afātama ma fa'afafine i le Tusi o Kenese 19:1-7, e ui na matua'i iloga lona popole. Na te le'i fa'atagaina tagata Sotoma e ulufale i lona fale e fai le amio leaga ma agelu na ia valaaulia e malōlō i totonu o lona fale, tiga ona faatauanau le nuu ia te ia ma toetoe a osofa'i lona āiga.Le au Pele e, ou te iloa i nisi atunuu, o se solitulafono le tau o le upu moni fa'atatau i feusuaiga fa'a Sotoma, peita'i e sili atu lo tatou mālō iā Keriso, ma e tatau ona o tatou faailoa o ia i mea uma tatou te i ai. Aua e te tūtū ma matamata a'o agai atu tagata i le fa'afanoga; e I ai lou tiute e tatau ona fai e lavea'i ai ni agaga se toatele, (Iuta 1:17-23). Ta'u atu le Upu moni I le Afioga Paia a le Atua fa'atatau i le faa Sotoma i soose taimi ma se aso e te maua ai le avanoa. I le suafa o Iesu. Amene.

Support Common Prayer Daily @ PatreonVisit our Website for more www.commonprayerdaily.com_______________Opening Words:“Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.”Psalm 19:14 (ESV) Confession:Let us humbly confess our sins unto Almighty God. Most merciful God, we confess that we have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we humbly repent. For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and forgive us; that we may delight in your will, and walk in your ways, to the glory of your Name. Amen. Almighty God have mercy on you, forgive you all your sins through our Lord Jesus Christ, strengthen you in all goodness, and by the power of the Holy Spirit keep you in eternal life. Amen. The InvitatoryLord, open our lips.And our mouth shall proclaim your praise.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. Venite (Psalm 95:1-7)Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: Come let us adore him. Come, let us sing to the Lord; * let us shout for joy to the Rock of our salvation.Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving * and raise a loud shout to him with psalms.For the Lord is a great God, * and a great King above all gods.In his hand are the caverns of the earth, * and the heights of the hills are his also.The sea is his, for he made it, * and his hands have molded the dry land.Come, let us bow down, and bend the knee, * and kneel before the Lord our Maker.For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture and the sheep of his hand. *Oh, that today you would hearken to his voice! Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: Come let us adore him. The PsalterPsalm 69Salvum me fac1Save me, O God, *for the waters have risen up to my neck.2I am sinking in deep mire, *and there is no firm ground for my feet.3I have come into deep waters, *and the torrent washes over me.4I have grown weary with my crying;my throat is inflamed; *my eyes have failed from looking for my God.5Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head;my lying foes who would destroy me are mighty. *Must I then give back what I never stole?6O God, you know my foolishness, *and my faults are not hidden from you.7Let not those who hope in you be put to shame through me, Lord God of hosts; *let not those who seek you be disgraced because of me, O God of Israel.8Surely, for your sake have I suffered reproach, *and shame has covered my face.9I have become a stranger to my own kindred, *an alien to my mother's children.10Zeal for your house has eaten me up; *the scorn of those who scorn you has fallen upon me.11I humbled myself with fasting, *but that was turned to my reproach.12I put on sack-cloth also, *and became a byword among them.13Those who sit at the gate murmur against me, *and the drunkards make songs about me.14But as for me, this is my prayer to you, *at the time you have set, O Lord:15“In your great mercy, O God, *answer me with your unfailing help.16Save me from the mire; do not let me sink; *let me be rescued from those who hate meand out of the deep waters.17Let not the torrent of waters wash over me,neither let the deep swallow me up; *do not let the Pit shut its mouth upon me.18Answer me, O Lord, for your love is kind; *in your great compassion, turn to me.'19“Hide not your face from your servant; *be swift and answer me, for I am in distress.20Draw near to me and redeem me; *because of my enemies deliver me.21You know my reproach, my shame, and my dishonor; *my adversaries are all in your sight.”22Reproach has broken my heart, and it cannot be healed; *I looked for sympathy, but there was none,for comforters, but I could find no one.23They gave me gall to eat, *and when I was thirsty, they gave me vinegar to drink.31As for me, I am afflicted and in pain; *your help, O God, will lift me up on high.32I will praise the Name of God in song; *I will proclaim his greatness with thanksgiving.33This will please the Lord more than an offering of oxen, *more than bullocks with horns and hoofs.34The afflicted shall see and be glad; *you who seek God, your heart shall live.35For the Lord listens to the needy, *and his prisoners he does not despise.36Let the heavens and the earth praise him, *the seas and all that moves in them;37For God will save Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah; *they shall live there and have it in possession.38The children of his servants will inherit it, *and those who love his Name will dwell therein. Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: *as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. LessonsEzra 7:27-28English Standard Version27 Blessed be the Lord, the God of our fathers, who put such a thing as this into the heart of the king, to beautify the house of the Lord that is in Jerusalem, 28 and who extended to me his steadfast love before the king and his counselors, and before all the king's mighty officers. I took courage, for the hand of the Lord my God was on me, and I gathered leading men from Israel to go up with me.Ezra 8:21-36English Standard Version21 Then I proclaimed a fast there, at the river Ahava, that we might humble ourselves before our God, to seek from him a safe journey for ourselves, our children, and all our goods. 22 For I was ashamed to ask the king for a band of soldiers and horsemen to protect us against the enemy on our way, since we had told the king, “The hand of our God is for good on all who seek him, and the power of his wrath is against all who forsake him.” 23 So we fasted and implored our God for this, and he listened to our entreaty.24 Then I set apart twelve of the leading priests: Sherebiah, Hashabiah, and ten of their kinsmen with them. 25 And I weighed out to them the silver and the gold and the vessels, the offering for the house of our God that the king and his counselors and his lords and all Israel there present had offered. 26 I weighed out into their hand 650 talents of silver, and silver vessels worth 200 talents, and 100 talents of gold, 27 20 bowls of gold worth 1,000 darics, and two vessels of fine bright bronze as precious as gold. 28 And I said to them, “You are holy to the Lord, and the vessels are holy, and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering to the Lord, the God of your fathers. 29 Guard them and keep them until you weigh them before the chief priests and the Levites and the heads of fathers' houses in Israel at Jerusalem, within the chambers of the house of the Lord.” 30 So the priests and the Levites took over the weight of the silver and the gold and the vessels, to bring them to Jerusalem, to the house of our God.31 Then we departed from the river Ahava on the twelfth day of the first month, to go to Jerusalem. The hand of our God was on us, and he delivered us from the hand of the enemy and from ambushes by the way. 32 We came to Jerusalem, and there we remained three days. 33 On the fourth day, within the house of our God, the silver and the gold and the vessels were weighed into the hands of Meremoth the priest, son of Uriah, and with him was Eleazar the son of Phinehas, and with them were the Levites, Jozabad the son of Jeshua and Noadiah the son of Binnui. 34 The whole was counted and weighed, and the weight of everything was recorded.35 At that time those who had come from captivity, the returned exiles, offered burnt offerings to the God of Israel, twelve bulls for all Israel, ninety-six rams, seventy-seven lambs, and as a sin offering twelve male goats. All this was a burnt offering to the Lord. 36 They also delivered the king's commissions to the king's satraps and to the governors of the province Beyond the River, and they aided the people and the house of God.Revelation 15English Standard Version15 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and amazing, seven angels with seven plagues, which are the last, for with them the wrath of God is finished.2 And I saw what appeared to be a sea of glass mingled with fire—and also those who had conquered the beast and its image and the number of its name, standing beside the sea of glass with harps of God in their hands. 3 And they sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying,“Great and amazing are your deeds,    O Lord God the Almighty!Just and true are your ways,    O King of the nations!4 Who will not fear, O Lord,    and glorify your name?For you alone are holy.    All nations will come    and worship you,for your righteous acts have been revealed.”5 After this I looked, and the sanctuary of the tent of witness in heaven was opened, 6 and out of the sanctuary came the seven angels with the seven plagues, clothed in pure, bright linen, with golden sashes around their chests. 7 And one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever, 8 and the sanctuary was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the sanctuary until the seven plagues of the seven angels were finished. The Word of the Lord.Thanks Be To God. Benedictus (The Song of Zechariah)Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel; * he has come to his people and set them free.He has raised up for us a mighty savior, * born of the house of his servant David.Through his holy prophets he promised of old, that he would save us from our enemies, * from the hands of all who hate us. He promised to show mercy to our fathers * and to remember his holy covenant. This was the oath he swore to our father Abraham, * to set us free from the hands of our enemies, Free to worship him without fear, * holy and righteous in his sight all the days of our life.You, my child, shall be called the prophet of the Most High, * for you will go before the Lord to prepare his way, To give his people knowledge of salvation * by the forgiveness of their sins.In the tender compassion of our God * the dawn from on high shall break upon us, To shine on those who dwell in darkness and the shadow of death, * and to guide our feet into the way of peace.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. The Apostles CreedI believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. The PrayersLord, have mercy.Christ, have mercyLord, have mercyOur Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever and ever. Amen. The SuffragesO Lord, show your mercy upon us;And grant us your salvation.O Lord, guide those who govern usAnd lead us in the way of justice and truth.Clothe your ministers with righteousnessAnd let your people sing with joy.O Lord, save your peopleAnd bless your inheritance.Give peace in our time, O LordAnd defend us by your mighty power.Let not the needy, O Lord, be forgottenNor the hope of the poor be taken away.Create in us clean hearts, O GodAnd take not your Holy Spirit from us. Take a moment of silence at this time to reflect and pray for others. The CollectsProper 26Almighty and merciful God, it is only by your gift that your faithful people offer you true and laudable service: Grant that we may run without stumbling to obtain your heavenly promises; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen. Daily Collects:A Collect for PeaceO God, the author of peace and lover of concord, to know you is eternal life and to serve you is perfect freedom: Defend us, your humble servants, in all assaults of our enemies; that we, surely trusting in your defense, may not fear the power of any adversaries, through the might of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.A Collect for GraceO Lord, our heavenly Father, almighty and everlasting God, you have brought us safely to the beginning of this day: Defend us by your mighty power, that we may not fall into sin nor run into any danger; and that, guided by your Spirit, we may do what is righteous in your sight; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.Collect of Saint BasilO Christ God, Who art worshipped and glorified at every place and time; Who art long-suffering, most merciful and compassionate; Who lovest the righteous and art merciful to sinners; Who callest all to salvation with the promise of good things to come: receive, Lord, the prayers we now offer, and direct our lives in the way of Thy commandments. Sanctify our souls, cleanse our bodies, correct our thoughts, purify our minds and deliver us from all affliction, evil and illness. Surround us with Thy holy angels, that guarded and instructed by their forces, we may reach unity of faith and the understanding of Thine unapproachable glory: for blessed art Thou unto ages of ages. Amen. General ThanksgivingAlmighty God, Father of all mercies, we your unworthy servants give you humble thanks for all your goodness and loving-kindness to us and to all whom you have made. We bless you for our creation, preservation, and all the blessings of this life; but above all for your immeasurable love in the redemption of the world by our Lord Jesus Christ; for the means of grace, and for the hope of glory. And, we pray, give us such an awareness of your mercies, that with truly thankful hearts we may show forth your praise, not only with our lips, but in our lives, by giving up our selves to your service, and by walking before you in holiness and righteousness all our days; Through Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom, with you and the Holy Spirit, be honor and glory throughout all ages. Amen. A Prayer of St. John ChrysostomAlmighty God, you have given us grace at this time, with one accord to make our common supplications to you; and you have promised through your well-beloved Son that when two or three are gathered together in his Name you will grant their requests: Fulfill now, O Lord, our desires and petitions as may be best for us; granting us in this world knowledge of your truth, and in the age to come life everlasting. Amen. DismissalLet us bless the LordThanks be to God!Alleluia, Alleluia! BenedictionThe grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with us all evermore. Amen

Ephesians 4:17–32I. Put Off the Old Self and Put On the New – 17-24II. Put Away Falsehood and Be Kind - 25-32

IMAGE DESCRIPTION: Saint Luke the Evangelist. Russian Eastern Orthodox icon from Russia. 18th century. Wood, tempera. Via Wikimedia Commons. https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/ultraviolet-light-reveals-scientists-hidden-bible-passage-1500-years-later (for Luke) Unique passages: https://www.julianspriggs.co.uk/pages/UniquePassages  Thanks Biblehub.com's parallel chapters tool. Words of Jesus ("All the Red Letter Scriptures") https://www.jesusbelieverjd.com/all-the-red-letter-scriptures-of-jesus-in-the-bible-kjv/    Parallel Passages in the Gospels https://www.bible-researcher.com/parallels.html#sect1     The Eye of the Needle (crossword/sudoku feedback): https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-25583,00.html#:~:text=The%20%22Eye%20of%20the%20Needle,in%20order%20to%20enter%20heaven   Camel needle w/Aquinas citation (of Anselm of Canterbury)-- Anselm of Canterbury as cited in Catena Aurea, Thomas Aquinas, CCEL Edition. https://classictheology.org/2021/10/12/through-the-eye-of-an-actual-needle-the-fake-gate-theory/    The Widow's Mite: https://numismatics.org/pocketchange/the-poor-widows-mite/    Miracles of Jesus reference list: https://sunnyhillschurch.com/3301/the-37-miracles-of-jesus-in-chronological-order/    TRANSCRIPT   Welcome to the Popeular History Podcast: History through Pope Colored Glasses. My name is Gregg and this is episode 0.21g: Sayings of the Savior Part VII: A Look at Luke.   All of these aught episodes are made to let us build our Pope-colored glasses so we can use the same lenses when we look at history together. If you're lost, start at the beginning!   Today we continue our Sayings of the Savior series with a look at Luke, covering everything Jesus said in that Gospel that we haven't yet discussed–so leaving off things like the miracles we did in 0.20 and the parables and other sayings we did in earlier Sayings of the Savior installments- so we'll be leaving you in suspense right before the concluding few chapters discussing Jesus' death and His (spoiler alert) resurrection, which we'll cover as we finish the remaining mysteries of the rosary in future Catholic worldbuilding episodes.   We already covered the first three chapters of Luke gradually from Episode 0.14 to Episode 0.19, and we'll cover the last three chapters as we talk through the Passion and the Resurrection (oops, spoilers). Which leaves Luke chapters 4 through 21 as our focus for today.   Luke 4 starts with the Temptation in the Desert. As you know by now, it's not unusual to find parallel scenes in the Gospels, especially in the so-called synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and fitting with that pattern, we saw a version of this scene in Matthew, and it actually made an appearance in Mark as well, though the Mark version was so abbreviated it didn't actually assign any dialog to Jesus or Satan so I didn't zoom in on it–after all, this is Sayings of the Savior.   Anyways, let's see Luke's temptation scene and note what differences we see from Matthew's version.   In the first temptation, Matthew has Satan referring to multiple stones Jesus could turn into bread after his 40 day fast, while Luke has just one stone. I'm sure there's commentary that discusses this difference--it's the Bible, there's commentary for everything– but unlike the Mark episode, I'm not going to go into quite that level of detail with Luke. It's worth noting that when Christ responds with   LUKE "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone.'”   GREGG he leaves off the second half of the quote from Deuteronomy 8:3   “but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.”   which Matthew had included.   Then, the second and third temptation we saw in Matthew are reversed. In Luke, Satan first tells Jesus he can give him all sorts of power if He worships him, which, I mean, I guess things would have been pretty different if Jesus had taken him up on that. Like, serious plot twist. But nah. He says   LUKE “It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only”   GREGG and then the third temptation in Luke's ordering is the testing of God's protection of Jesus. Rather than seeing if God will save Him, Jesus says:   LUKE: It is said: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'”   GREGG After seeing the devil off, Jesus begins his traveling and preaching ministry and soon enough winds up in his hometown. This is a scene that showed up in Matthew and Mark as well, the one where Jesus notes that no prophet is welcome in his hometown. In Luke it's more thorough and frankly dramatic. Long quote ahead, let's get into it:   LUKE 4 16He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read,   17and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:   18"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,   19to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.”   20Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him.   21He began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”   22All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. "Isn't this Joseph's son?" they asked.   23Jesus said to them, "Surely you will quote this proverb to me: 'Physician, heal yourself!' And you will tell me, 'Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.'"   24"Truly I tell you," he continued, "no prophet is accepted in his hometown.   25I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah's time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land.   26Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon.   27And there were many in Israel with leprosy in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed--only Naaman the Syrian.”   28All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this.   29They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff.   30But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.   GREGG   So, just to recap, we have Jesus preaching a bit of a softball passage from Isaiah, promising good news to the poor. That was a long quote, so let's hear just that passage as a refresher:   “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor”   The good news part is clear enough In terms of freedom and healing, but what is the year of the Lord's favor mentioned?   By all accounts it's the Jubilee year described in Leviticus 25. You know how the seventh day is the Sabbath, a day of rest for the people? Well the seventh year was a “day”of rest for the fields, where they were to lie fallow, that is, go untilled and unworked, letting nature take its course for a year. Crops could not be harvested in an organized way, though what grows could be casually consumed by the owners, or by the needy,  or really by anyone, or by animals. Going further, personal debts among the people of Israel were cancelled in a levelling move. This custom is still in force in much of Israel, where it is called the Shmita. Of course, following the quasi-precept of “two Jews, three opinions”, application slash abrogation of this practice varies.   Anyways, the Jubilee year was not the seventh year, the Smhita I mentioned, but rather the fiftieth year, being the year after the seventh set of seven years, because symbolism. In the Jubilee year, things were even more intense, for instance going beyond personal debt forgiveness to returning sold land to the tribe of origin and to freeing Israelites who had sold themselves into slavery, basically a factory reset for society.   But note, this was only enslaved Israelites who were to be freed in the Jubilee year, the “year of the Lord's favor”. And this is where we turn back to Luke 4, because Jesus pivots the conversation away from the people of Israel to the fringes and even beyond the borders of Jewish society, to Sidon and Syria. But sending the good news to the gentiles is quite a bridge too far for his audience, who prepare to kill him in their rage. Like I said, quite the scene, and it's easy to understand why skeptics might place it as having been written after Christianity had already begun to spread among the gentiles and catch flack for doing so on the home front. My main narrative episodes haven't gotten far, but we've already started to see some of that tension, and it will only grow.   Of course, I've committed to getting my Catholic Worldbuilding stuff done before I dive back into the main narrative stuff, and to do that we need to get through the rest of Luke, and to do *that* we at least need to get through the rest of Luke 4.   After escaping the assembled mob, apparently by miraculous means of some kind because it simply says He walked right through the crowd, Jesus proceeds to do other miracles in towns around the region. The people who lived near Peter's mother-in-law must have really appreciated the assist, because in stark contrast to his hometown reception they tried to keep him from leaving. He responded:   LUKE 4 “I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent.”   GREGG Luke 5 opens with Jesus calling his disciples to follow Him. We covered the miraculous catch of fish that got Peter on board when we did our roundup of miracles, and other assorted miracles carry us through to Verse 27, when we have the Call of Matthew, known to Luke as Levi.   Matthew vs. Levi Is worth a minute. Matthew is the more common name for this disciple, and may have been his Christian name. But Levi is the name preferred here in Luke and also in Mark. One explanation I saw in multiple places is that Matthew is a Greek name while Levi is Hebrew, an explanation that suffers from being wrong, as Matthew is Hebrew for “gift of God”. A perhaps more successful explanation is that Matthew was a Levite, you know, someone from the Tribe of Levi, and things got a bit garbled. Or there was a name change that just didn't get recorded in Scripture or in any other tradition for that matter..   Matthew and Levi being separate individuals seems to be the least popular theory, so regardless of the particulars, your takeaway from this should be the same as it was when we talked about this last episode: they're the same person.   Either way, here's the call of Matthew *cough* Levi:   LUKE 5 27Jesus went out and saw a tax collector by the name of Levi sitting at his tax booth. "Follow me," Jesus said to him, 28and Levi got up, left everything and followed him.   GREGG OK, maybe I didn't need to go into all that detail for two words of Jesus, but hey, what's done is done, so “follow me” across a few more verses, where Jesus gets questioned about the company He's chosen to keep:   LUKE 5 Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” 31Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”   GREGG That's good news for us sinners, I can tell you that much.   Luke 5 finishes with some parables, which we covered in the Parables roundup earlier in this series, so on to Luke 6, which opens with the grain-picking scene we've seen a couple of times already. SYNOPTIC ROUNDUP, you know the drill [airhorn], except I'm skipping rehashing the other two accounts, just, you know, general reminder that synoptic parallels are a thing.   Anyways, let's get another dose of that “Lord of the Sabbath” action:   LUKE 6 1One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2Some of the Pharisees asked, "Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?” 3Jesus answered them, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.” 5Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”   GREGG Oh yeah, good stuff. Check my Matthew and Mark episodes if you want more commentary on it, I want to buckle down and get to John. Of course by that I mean John the Baptist, whose inquiry  gives us of the next section we need to cover. Of course, as is so often the case with these synoptic Gospels, this isn't actually a whole new section. This next chunk closely matches a parallel passage in Matthew 11. If you want to follow along, in Matthew it's the start of that Chapter, while in Luke we're at chapter 7 verse 18:   LUKE 7 18John's disciples told him about all these things. Calling two of them, 19he sent them to the Lord to ask, "Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else? 20When the men came to Jesus, they said, "John the Baptist sent us to you to ask, 'Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?'” 21At that very time Jesus cured many who had diseases, sicknesses and evil spirits, and gave sight to many who were blind.   GREGG Oh look there's a batch of miracles that didn't make it into my miracles roundup, at least not directly. It's pretty vague, and it's unique to Luke. This small difference is exactly the sort of thing that gets analyzed to try to understand the relationship between Matthew and Luke, and like every other bit of Scriptural analysis you can find someone taking pretty much any conceivable stance. In any case, the reference to those timely miracles helps set the stage for the next verse, which is back to closely paralleling Matthew:   LUKE 7 22So he replied to the messengers, "Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. 23Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”   24After John's messengers left, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: "What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed swayed by the wind? 25If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear expensive clothes and indulge in luxury are in palaces. 26But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. 27This is the one about whom it is written: "'I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.' 28I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”   GREGG Now, I went back and checked my commentary on Matthew's version of this scene, and it was basically nothing. Which is fair, I was pretty deadline-crunched at the time and knew I'd be revisiting it here. But it's definitely worth noting that both passages have John the Baptist, who Jesus proclaims as a great, or even the greatest, prophet, both passages have this spiritual giant publicly uncertain about whether Jesus is the Messiah.   You could perhaps argue this was a ruse, but John seems to have been a straight shooter- that's why he's sending delegates from prison after all rather than asking himself. So it seems to be a genuine question. Which means if you're under the impression that having faith or even being the greatest prophet ever automatically means you have no remaining questions and can see all of God's plan perfectly, apparently not. After all, John had been the one ministering at Jesus' baptism, where Heaven had opened and the Spirit had come down as a dove and God's own voice had told Jesus: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”   And yet now John is asking, publicly: “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?"   There's a lesson in there on vulnerability and openness to God's plan. Or perhaps a lesson in how everyone can encounter uncertainty, no matter how certain their role seems. We'll see Jesus go even further in questioning during the Passion narrative when the time comes.   Skipping a few verses of parenthetical commentary that can only be found in Luke, let's pick back up at Luke 7 verse 31:   LUKE 7 31Jesus went on to say, "To what, then, can I compare the people of this generation? What are they like? 32They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling out to each other: "'We played the pipe for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not cry.' 33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' 35But wisdom is proved right by all her children.”   GREGG If you aren't willing to listen, you'll find any excuse to dismiss the message. But the wise will be shown by making the right choice.   After wrapping that up, Jesus goes on a bit of a parable tour until he winds up with a bit more family awkwardness In Luke 8:19:   LUKE 8 19 Now Jesus' mother and brothers came to see him, but they were not able to get near him because of the crowd. 20 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting CORRECT  to see you.”   21 He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice.”   GREGG Ouch, but also yay, Jesus doesn't put His earthly family above others. Which is good news If you didn't start out as His family, though it might sting a little if you did.   The rest of Luke 8 is a bunch of previously-discussed miracles, so we're on to Luke 9:   LUKE 9 9 When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, 2 and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. 3 He told them: “Take nothing for the journey—no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra shirt. 4 Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that town. 5 If people do not welcome you, leave their town and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.” 6 So they set out and went from village to village, proclaiming the good news and healing people everywhere.   GREGG This Isn't the first or even the second time we've seen these basic marching orders, but it actually is the last as John is, well, a very different Gospel, as we'll see in our next worldbuilding episode.   Anyways, after feeding the 5,000 we get to verse 18, where Luke's version of Peter's confession begins. As with Mark, don't get too excited:   LUKE 9 18 Once when Jesus was praying in private and his disciples were with him, he asked them, “Who do the crowds say I am?”   19 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, that one of the prophets of long ago has come back to life.”   20 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”   Peter answered, “God's Messiah.”   21 Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone.”   GREGG   So that's three for three on synoptic Gospels having Peter describe Jesus as the Messiah. Only Matthew did the keys thing, though. Also note the messianic secret trope popping up again- Jesus will apparently reverse his gag order after the Passion, because the Book of Acts- which was also written by Luke, or at least by whoever wrote Luke, will be all about telling everyone Jesus is the Messiah.   Immediately after that exchange, Jesus starts talking about his future, and it's not rosy:   LUKE 9 22 And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”   23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? 26 Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.   27 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”   GREGG This is all closely paralleling Matthew, and Mark as well, though as usual Mark was a bit shorter, skipping the last verse about some standing there not tasting death before they see the Kingdom. Again, you can see why early Christians were basically a doomsday cult expecting the end sooner rather than later. Certainly *your* end will come, so, you know, keep that in mind.   We're going to skip the transfiguration since that's its own mystery of the rosary with its own episode, and there's another miracle account after that. So skipping along, come with me to Luke 9:43:   LUKE 9 While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.   GREGG If my episode on Mark is still fresh in your mind, you may already predict where this is going, as this particular section is a close Mark and Luke parallel. Matthew split things up in different ways but for both Mark and Luke the conversation with a child and being the greatest in the kingdom follows immediately after Jesus states what will become of him, leaving the disciples too afraid to ask.   Let's carry on with the next verse:   LUKE 9 46 An argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest. 47 Jesus, knowing their thoughts, took a little child and had him stand beside him. 48 Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For it is the one who is least among you all who is the greatest.”   GREGG The next verse is a bit of a random aside, but an important one as I mentioned before when it came up in Mark:   LUKE 9 49 “Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.”   50 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”   GREGG Skipping ahead to verse 57, we have some stray sayings that underline the urgency of following Christ:   LUKE 9 57 As they were walking along the road, a man said to him, “I will follow you wherever you go.”   58 Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”   59 He said to another man, “Follow me.”   But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”   60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”   61 Still another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say goodbye to my family.”   62 Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”   GREGG A bit harsh, but Jesus is like that sometimes.   Luke 10 opens with an long section on Jesus' next project, sending out seventy-two disciples, or seventy according to some manuscripts. Some may recall a previous seventy vs seventy-two discussion when we talked about the Septuagint, and I expect there's a reason for that parallel, but either way that's not the particular rabbit hole I want to go down here today. Instead, I want to note that we can have some fun with this Luke-only passage, and that we wouldn't be the first to do so.   You see, seventy is a long but not completely impractical number of folks to list off, and while Luke doesn't give names, there are plenty of extrabiblical sources assigning names and biographical details to some or all of the seventy. This passage discussing Jesus sending out seventy disciples was especially useful for ancient or wannabe ancient dioceses that couldn't trace back to a specific Apostle. Instead, lo and behold, turns out their founder was one of the unnamed seventy. Boom presto, a biblical founder!   Of course that's the skeptical read, it could well be that some such stories are true. But there are enough names assigned to the 70 that they certainly aren't *all* true, kind of like how there are at least four heads of John the Baptist floating around. In the end, as a reminder, Catholics are generally free to believe or disbelieve in the authenticity and or efficacy of any particular relic or tradition as long as they accept the fundamental teachings and authority of the Catholic Church.   In terms of the promised fun we can have, I'd like to announce a little side project, a game where I share a story of someone spreading Christianity and the next episode we'll discuss whether it's real or made up and what the sources are.   We'll start that at the end of this episode. For now, let's hear about the seventy slash seventy-two:   LUKE 10 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. 3 Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. 4 Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.   5 “When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.' 6 If someone who promotes peace is there, your peace will rest on them; if not, it will return to you. 7 Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.   GREGG Someone tell the Jehovah's Witnesses…   LUKE 10 8 “When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is offered to you. 9 Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.' 10 But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say, 11 ‘Even the dust of your town we wipe from our feet as a warning to you. Yet be sure of this: The kingdom of God has come near.' 12 I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.   13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.   16 “Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”   17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”   18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.    GREGG That verse is the root of some of the quirky snake-handling churches in Appalachia by the way…   LUKE 10 20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”   21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.   22 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”   23 Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see. 24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”   GREGG   Those last two verses touch on an interesting discussion throughout Church history, namely the fate of those who lived before the time of Christ.   Could they be saved? Observant Jews of the time, yes, certainly. But those who never encountered Christianity or Judaism because of when or where they lived historically has proven a bit of an awkward question for the Church. The “well you better go tell them” impulse has long served to recruit missionaries, but on the other end many did and do argue that it hardly seems fair to expect folks to follow what through no fault of their own they've never been exposed to. Granted it's less of an issue nowadays when very few folks worldwide haven't at least heard of Christ, but the question remains. Certainly the Catholic Church insists that all humans who are saved are saved through Christ, there's no other way. And yet the Church also affirms that God is not bound by time, as evidenced by the defined belief required of all Catholics in the Immaculate Conception, where the Blessed Virgin Mary was preserved from all stain of sin from the moment of her conception. Obviously that took place before the Incarnation, so it's not like the years going from BC to AD is a firm barrier for the saving action of Christ in the eyes of the Catholic Church. Indeed, by implication, the previously mentioned Jews who awaited the grand opening of heaven were able to do so by the work of Christ according to the Church, though given how many horrible things have been done to Jews in the name of Christ through the years that isn't something that tends to be emphasized.   In the end, I think you probably know me well enough by now to correctly guess that I land on the hopeful end of this discussion. By one means or another, all through Christ, I hope for all. But to be very clear, that's my hope, and for what it's worth. Pope Francis' hope as well according to a recent interview, but it's not established Church teaching.   Skipping past the parable of the Good Samaritan, let's go to verse 38 for Martha and Mary, an exchange that's my go-to analogy for the two basic types of service to the Church, with Martha being the “active” type and Mary the “contemplative”.   LUKE 38 As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39 She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. 40 But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”   41 “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, 42 but few things are needed—or indeed only one. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”   GREGG   The first part of Luke 11 covers Luke's take on the Our Father-covered in 0.21b- and the Friend at Midnight covered in our parables roundup. So skip along to Verse 9, which parallels Matthew's Sermon on the Mount, so it will sound familiar:   LUKE 11 9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.   11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”   GREGG Skip ahead again, this time to verse 24, because verses 14-23 were covered under miracles:   LUKE 24 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.' 25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”   27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”   28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”   GREGG There's a reminder that relapsing can be worse than the initial lapse, and a nice compliment session preserved only in Luke. But then the tone shifts, and the rest of the chapter has parallels in Matthew:   LUKE 11 29 As the crowds increased, Jesus said, “This is a wicked generation. It asks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. 30 For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of Man be to this generation. 31 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with the people of this generation and condemn them, for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom; and now something greater than Solomon is here. 32 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and now something greater than Jonah is here   GREGG Then there's a comparatively light lamp analogy, which I kind of covered during the Sermon on the Mount commentary, but not in its entirety, so I'm giving it all to you here:   LUKE 11 33 “No one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden, or under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, so that those who come in may see the light. 34 Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are healthy, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are unhealthy, your body also is full of darkness. 35 See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness. 36 Therefore, if your whole body is full of light, and no part of it dark, it will be just as full of light as when a lamp shines its light on you.”   GREGG And now as we get back to a more challenging tone, and as Jesus targets the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law specifically, I want to give the same general note that I gave for the parallel verses in Matthew: do not take these verses out of context to justify antisemitism, which has no place in the Catholic Church, or really in the world. For one thing, keep in mind Jesus is a Jew speaking to fellow Jews here.   Anyways, let's continue: LUKE   37 When Jesus had finished speaking, a Pharisee invited him to eat with him; so he went in and reclined at the table. 38 But the Pharisee was surprised when he noticed that Jesus did not first wash before the meal.   39 Then the Lord said to him, “Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40 You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? 41 But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.   42 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.   43 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and respectful greetings in the marketplaces.   44 “Woe to you, because you are like unmarked graves, which people walk over without knowing it.”   45 One of the experts in the law answered him, “Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also.”   46 Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.   47 “Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them. 48 So you testify that you approve of what your ancestors did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.' 50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.”   GREGG Let's take a moment to reflect on that last line: “this generation will be held responsible for it all”. It's surprisingly harsh, even for a surprisingly harsh Jesus, for Him to hold the generation he was talking to responsible for all the blood of all the prophets that has been shed from the beginning of the world. But there it is. I can see a case being made for these verses as part of a theological justification for original sin, though really the key verse for that is Romans 5:12, which we'll talk about later. Either way, given the emphasis on “this generation”, I don't think that's what's going on here, as original sin doesn't like, target specific generations.   So, what's up? Why is Jesus focusing in on the present generation, at least the present generation as of His lifetime?   Well, there's the key. It's His generation. Jesus is there, and all of the sin of history, past, present, and future, will be brought to account through Him.   Jesus, as always, is the answer. It's not that the world was especially sinful in the first century AD. But the answer to all sin was walking the earth then. *That* is why it's a generation that deserves a particular singling out.   Of course, that reflection- my own theological musing I should say, which is a dangerous thing to do and I defer to any correction that may come my way– anyways that reflection should not detract from the straightforward fact that Jesus is really taking the Pharisees and Teachers of the law to task here   LUKE 11 52 “Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”   53 When Jesus went outside, the Pharisees and the teachers of the law began to oppose him fiercely and to besiege him with questions, 54 waiting to catch him in something he might say.   1Meanwhile, when a crowd of many thousands had gathered, so that they were trampling on one another, Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy   2There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.   3What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs   GREGG Fortunately no one in our day falls into religious hypocrisy anymore, right? …right?   Anyways, the next few verses, once again paralleled with Matthew, put things into context, while weaving in hints of future persecution:   LUKE 12 4 “I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. 6 Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7 Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. 8 “I tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges me before others, the Son of Man will also acknowledge before the angels of God. 9 But whoever disowns me before others will be disowned before the angels of God. 10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. 11 “When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.” GREGG After a break for a parable, the overall theme resumes in verse 22:   LUKE 12 22 Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24 Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! 25 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life? 26 Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?   27 “Consider how the wild flowers grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith! 29 And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. 30 For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.   32 “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.   GREGG Did you catch one of the most challenging things Jesus says?   “Sell your possessions and give to the poor”   This isn't the only place Jesus says that, but it hits a little harder when he's giving it as general counsel rather than as specific advice to a rich young man looking for specific advice on how to live well. If you have more than you need, your excess needs to go to those who lack. You will ultimately have to account not only for what you did, but what you didn't do. If you've seen Schindler's List, think of his regret after all he's done, that he didn't sell the car to do more. When your life is done, what regrets will You have?   I know I need to do more, part of this project is to remind myself of that and to embarrass myself publicly for my shortcomings. Listen to Jesus' message, don't get hung up on the messenger.   A few parables take us forward to verse 49, a source of top notch dad jokes about our matchless king. But Jesus goes beyond that, preaching division. His message is hard, it will not be universally popular.   LUKE 12 49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”   54 He said to the crowd: “When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, ‘It's going to rain,' and it does. 55 And when the south wind blows, you say, ‘It's going to be hot,' and it is. 56 Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don't know how to interpret this present time?   57 “Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 As you are going with your adversary to the magistrate, try hard to be reconciled on the way, or your adversary may drag you off to the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”   LUKE 13 13 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”   GREGG That excerpt took us into Luke 13, which continues with parables and a miracle until verse 23, which is, frankly, basically the start of another parable, but not one I covered in the parables roundup so we'll do it here.   LUKE 13 23 Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”   He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.'   “But he will answer, ‘I don't know you or where you come from.'   26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'   27 “But he will reply, ‘I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'   28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30 Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”   GREGG I recently saw one of the first verses in that passage cited as pointing towards the idea of Hell being full. After all,   “many I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.”   Is fairly clear, and even accounting for Jesus' action as the owner of the house, in this and elsewhere ultimately those who are out on the cold are truly out in the cold. As much as I freely admit I don't get the logic of hell being populated, I also freely admit that the idea of it being empty is an exegetical stretch given passages like this. In the end, God reigns and I do not. I know what God asks of me, and I do it. As much as I like to know and to talk, I accept that I don't have and cannot have all knowledge.   Anyways, Jesus continues with a lament over Jerusalem we saw in Matthew, which Luke supplies with a little more context:   LUKE 13 31 At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you.”   32 He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.' 33 In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!   34 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 35 Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'”   GREGG And now with that note looking to Jesus' future- something he definitely keeps doing throughout the Gospels- we have something of an intermission, because Luke 14, 15, and 16 are all so full of parables that we've already covered along with all of Jesus' words from those chapters. Luke 17 opens with yet another parable, and then a miracle, so we're actually regrouping at Luke 17:20, where Jesus talks about the upcoming kingdom and talks about the end times, always fuel for a discussion, though I am skeptical about how productive such discussions are, given how Jesus opens the discussion by noting that the coming of the kingdom cannot be observed. And really, if there's something you'd be doing differently if you knew the world was ending--honestly that's probably something you should be doing *now*, because your life will end very soon in the grand scheme of things, and you can't rule out today.   Anyways, let's resume:   LUKE 17 20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,' or ‘There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”   22 Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23 People will tell you, ‘There he is!' or ‘Here he is!' Do not go running off after them. 24 For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.   26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.   28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.   30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot's wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36]   [KJV] 36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.   37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.   He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”   GREGG Oh, hope you don't mind me throwing in a little bit more KJV there. I would have announced it in advance but I was kind of on a roll with that transition and didn't want to kill the vibe. I'm no scripture scholar but my guess is the reason the KJV keep having verses the NIV is skipping is because back in the day folks were more reluctant to identify a passage as an addition due to manuscript evidence, you know, just in case. Better safe than sorry. But again, I'm no expert. Now, if I ever do get a budget for this beyond basic hosting fees I do have an expert in mind, so periodic reminder I do have a Popeular Patreon kicking around somewhere.   In any event, that's it for Luke 17, and we can basically skip the first half of Luke 18, since that's a couple parables and related stuff we've already addressed.   In Luke 18 verse 18, we've got a familiar question, not only familiar because it already came up in both Matthew and Mark, but it's actually already come up in Luke as well, as part of the runup to the parable of the Good Samaritan. That parable was split off from the other synoptics, being present only in Luke despite being extremely famous. But this time around, the passage is a close parallel to both Matthew and Mark. Let's go!   LUKE 18 18 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'” 21 “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said. 22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 23 When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. 24 Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” 27 Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” 28 Peter said to him, “We have left all we had to follow you!” 29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.” GREGG We treated the “eye of the needle” thing almost embarrassingly thoroughly last episode, so refer back to my Mark commentary for detail on that. The ending simply promising a much greater reward for giving things up to follow Jesus is a mild tweak of the “first shall be last” thing we saw concluding this passage in Matthew and Mark, for what it's worth.   Next up, Jesus gives the third prediction of his death he's given in Luke:   LUKE 18   31 Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”   34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.   GREGG Jesus predicts his death three times in each of the synoptic Gospels, so that being the third and final prediction is a sign we're getting close.   Chapter 18 finishes with a miracle, so we're on to Chapter 19, which opens with the second account of Jesus calling a tax collector to follow him present in Luke. And unlike the call of Matthew slash Levi, this call of Zaccheus is *only* present in Luke.   LUKE 19 19 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.   5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.   7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”   8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”   9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”   GREGG I mentioned a bit ago we were getting close to the end of things for today, and another sign that we're getting close is that the next thing we get to cover, after skipping another parable, is Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem, which is liturgically covered in the Palm Sunday observances that kick off Holy Week, aka the week leading up to Easter Sunday. Let's hear what Luke has to say, starting at verse 28:   LUKE 19 28 After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem. 29 As he approached Bethphage and Bethany at the hill called the Mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples, saying to them, 30 “Go to the village ahead of you, and as you enter it, you will find a colt tied there, which no one has ever ridden. Untie it and bring it here. 31 If anyone asks you, ‘Why are you untying it?' say, ‘The Lord needs it.'”   32 Those who were sent ahead went and found it just as he had told them. 33 As they were untying the colt, its owners asked them, “Why are you untying the colt?”   34 They replied, “The Lord needs it.”   35 They brought it to Jesus, threw their cloaks on the colt and put Jesus on it. 36 As he went along, people spread their cloaks on the road.   37 When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for all the miracles they had seen:   38 “Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!”   “Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!”   39 Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!”   40 “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”   41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you.”   45 When Jesus entered the temple courts, he began to drive out those who were selling. 46 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be a house of prayer'; but you have made it ‘a den of robbers.'”   47 Every day he was teaching at the temple. But the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the leaders among the people were trying to kill him. 48 Yet they could not find any way to do it, because all the people hung on his words.   GREGG From the classic handwaive of “the master has need of it” to the admittedly brief account of Jesus driving the moneychangers out of the Temple, there's a lot of good stuff in there, but nothing especially new, all things we basically saw in Matthew and Mark.   Similarly, the opening verses of Luke 20 are also close parallels of the other synoptic gospels. But hey, you know the drill, let's hear Luke tell it:   LUKE 20 One day as Jesus was teaching the people in the temple courts and proclaiming the good news, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, together with the elders, came up to him. 2 “Tell us by what authority you are doing these things,” they said. “Who gave you this authority?”   3 He replied, “I will also ask you a question. Tell me: 4 John's baptism—was it from heaven, or of human origin?”   5 They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,' he will ask, ‘Why didn't you believe him?' 6 But if we say, ‘Of human origin,' all the people will stone us, because they are persuaded that John was a prophet.”   7 So they answered, “We don't know where it was from.”   8 Jesus said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.”   GREGG The next few verses are taken up by the Parable of the Talents, so we'll skip that and go on to more close synoptic parallel passages starting in Verse 20. If you're wondering, we're parallelling Matthew 22 and Mark 12 here:   LUKE 20 20 Keeping a close watch on him, they sent spies, who pretended to be sincere. They hoped to catch Jesus in something he said, so that they might hand him over to the power and authority of the governor. 21 So the spies questioned him: “Teacher, we know that you speak and teach what is right, and that you do not show partiality but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. 22 Is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”   23 He saw through their duplicity and said to them, 24 “Show me a denarius. Whose image and inscription are on it?”   “Caesar's,” they replied.   25 He said to them, “Then give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.”   26 They were unable to trap him in what he had said there in public. And astonished by his answer, they became silent.   GREGG Yes, as you'll recall, giving God what is God's means giving God everything, but at the same time, like, pay your taxes.   The parallels continue with the next section   LUKE 20 Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man's brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30 The second 31 and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32 Finally, the woman died too. 33 Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”   34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37 But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”   39 Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!” 40 And no one dared to ask him any more questions. 41 Then Jesus said to them, “Why is it said that the Messiah is the son of David? 42 David himself declares in the Book of Psalms: “‘The Lord said to my Lord:     “Sit at my right hand 43 until I make your enemies     a footstool for your feet.”' 44 David calls him ‘Lord.' How then can he be his son?” GREGG   Yes, all closely paralleling Matthew 22 and Mark 12 still, both of which we've discussed. For what it's worth, John is going to be something quite different.   In any event, the last bit of Luke 20 is absent from Matthew, only parallelled in Mark 12:   LUKE 20 45 While all the people were listening, Jesus said to his disciples, 46 “Beware of the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. 47 They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”   GREGG Luke 21 opens with another section we that we didn't see in Matthew but covered in Mark, namely the Widow's Offering:   LUKE 21 As Jesus looked up, he saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. 2 He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. 3 “Truly I tell you,” he said, “this poor widow has put in more than all the others. 4 All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”   GREGG I do love the message there, namely that God sees and accounts for effort when it comes to our actions, including our giving. Like I said, the Widow's Offering was in Mark too so I went into some more detail last episode.   As the chapter continues, the parallels with Matthew resume, now in Matthew Chapter 24, and Mark 14. Overall the theme is the end times, fairly appropriate given the transition to the Passion that will come in the next chapter    LUKE 21 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”   7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”   8 He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,' and, ‘The time is near.' Do not follow them. 9 When you hear of wars and uprisings, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”

A buffet episode!  In which I tackle as many questions/requests from you as I can in 20 minutes.What you'll hear:How to protect yourself from overworking/overtraining when you're committed to a program that encourages that behavior?  If you want to ask for an amended program and want to back that up with data, here's something you can do 4:40On navigating your ego and sitting at the big kid's table 6:20Listen here to the episode of The Movement Maestro that I reference!  10:4911:28 Next question is from wonderful Emma, go follow her!  Why are we so hard on ourselves?  Why do we get in our own way all the time?A question about how to create a semblance of structure for yourself, especially if you have ADHD 16:32I reference this episode on seasonality if you'd like more thoughts on how it looks in practice Don't go back to sleep.xoRachelSign up here for monthly blasts and functional wooFind me on InstagramSupport this podcast on Patreon

Support Common Prayer Daily @ PatreonVisit our Website for more www.commonprayerdaily.com_______________LentLet my prayer be set forth in your sight as incense, the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.Psalm 141:2 ConfessionOfficiant: Let us humbly confess our sins unto Almighty God.People: Almighty and most merciful Father, we have erred and strayed from your ways like lost sheep. We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts. We have offended against your holy laws.We have left undone those things which we ought to have done, and we have done those things which we ought not to have done; and apart from your grace, there is no health in us. O Lord, have mercy upon us. Spare all those who confess their faults. Restore all those who are penitent, according to your promises declared to all people in Christ Jesus our Lord. And grant, O most merciful Father, for his sake, that we may now live a godly, righteous, and sober life, to the glory of your holy Name. Amen.Officiant: Almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us all our sins through our Lord Jesus Christ, strengthen us in all goodness, and by the power of the Holy Spirit keep us in eternal life. Amen. The Lord's PrayerOur Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen. Invitatory & PsalmsOfficiant: O God, make speed to save us. People: O Lord, make haste to help us. Officiant & People: Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. O Gracious Light Phos hilaronO gracious Light, pure brightness of the everliving Father in heaven, O Jesus Christ, holy and blessed!Now as we come to the setting of the sun, and our eyes behold the vesper light, we sing your praises, O God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.You are worthy at all times to be praised by happy voices, O Son of God, O Giver of life,and to be glorified through all the worlds. Psalm 119GimelRetribue servo tuo17Deal bountifully with your servant, *that I may live and keep your word.18Open my eyes, that I may see *the wonders of your law.19I am a stranger here on earth; *do not hide your commandments from me.20My soul is consumed at all times *with longing for your judgments.21You have rebuked the insolent; *cursed are they who stray from your commandments!22Turn from me shame and rebuke, *for I have kept your decrees.23Even though rulers sit and plot against me, *I will meditate on your statutes.24For your decrees are my delight, *and they are my counselors.DalethAdhæsit pavimento25My soul cleaves to the dust; *give me life according to your word.26I have confessed my ways, and you answered me; *instruct me in your statutes.27Make me understand the way of your commandments, *that I may meditate on your marvelous works.28My soul melts away for sorrow; *strengthen me according to your word.29Take from me the way of lying; *let me find grace through your law.30I have chosen the way of faithfulness; *I have set your judgments before me.31I hold fast to your decrees; *O Lord, let me not be put to shame.32I will run the way of your commandments, *for you have set my heart at liberty. Psalm 117Laudate Dominum1Praise the Lord, all you nations; *laud him, all you peoples.2For his loving-kindness toward us is great, *and the faithfulness of the Lord endures for ever.Hallelujah! Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. The LessonsJeremiah 20:7-13English Standard Version7 O Lord, you have deceived me,    and I was deceived;you are stronger than I,    and you have prevailed.I have become a laughingstock all the day;    everyone mocks me.8 For whenever I speak, I cry out,    I shout, “Violence and destruction!”For the word of the Lord has become for me    a reproach and derision all day long.9 If I say, “I will not mention him,    or speak any more in his name,”there is in my heart as it were a burning fire    shut up in my bones,and I am weary with holding it in,    and I cannot.10 For I hear many whispering.    Terror is on every side!“Denounce him! Let us denounce him!”    say all my close friends,    watching for my fall.“Perhaps he will be deceived;    then we can overcome him    and take our revenge on him.”11 But the Lord is with me as a dread warrior;    therefore my persecutors will stumble;    they will not overcome me.They will be greatly shamed,    for they will not succeed.Their eternal dishonor    will never be forgotten.12 O Lord of hosts, who tests the righteous,    who sees the heart and the mind,let me see your vengeance upon them,    for to you have I committed my cause.13 Sing to the Lord;    praise the Lord!For he has delivered the life of the needy    from the hand of evildoers. Officiant: The Word of the LordPeople: Thanks be to God. The Song of Mary - MagnificatMy soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord, my spirit rejoices in God my Savior; * for he has looked with favor on his lowly servant From this day all generations will call me blessed: * the Almighty has done great things for me, and holy is his Name. He has mercy on those who fear him * in every generation.He has shown the strength of his arm, * he has scattered the proud in their conceit.He has cast down the mighty from their thrones, * and has lifted up the lowly. He has filled the hungry with good things, * and the rich he has sent away empty. He has come to the help of his servant Israel, * for he has remembered his promise of mercy, The promise he made to our fathers, * to Abraham and his children for ever.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: *as It was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. John 12:1-11English Standard Version12 Six days before the Passover, Jesus therefore came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. 2 So they gave a dinner for him there. Martha served, and Lazarus was one of those reclining with him at table. 3 Mary therefore took a pound of expensive ointment made from pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. 4 But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was about to betray him), said, 5 “Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?” 6 He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it. 7 Jesus said, “Leave her alone, so that she may keep it for the day of my burial. 8 For the poor you always have with you, but you do not always have me.”9 When the large crowd of the Jews learned that Jesus was there, they came, not only on account of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. 10 So the chief priests made plans to put Lazarus to death as well, 11 because on account of him many of the Jews were going away and believing in Jesus. Officiant: The Word of the LordPeople: Thanks be to God. The Song of Simeon - Nunc dimittisLord, you now have set your servant free * to go in peace as you have promised; For these eyes of mine have seen the Savior, * whom you have prepared for all the world to see: A Light to enlighten the nations, * and the glory of your people Israel.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: * as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. The CreedI believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. The PrayersOfficiant: The Lord be with you.People: And also with you.Officiant: Let us pray The SuffragesThat this evening may be holy, good, and peaceful, We entreat you, O Lord.That your holy angels may lead us in paths of peace and goodwill, We entreat you, O Lord.That we may be pardoned and forgiven for our sins and offenses, We entreat you, O Lord.That there may be peace to your Church and to the whole world, We entreat you, O Lord.That we may depart this life in your faith and fear, and not be condemned before the great judgment seat of Christ, We entreat you, O Lord.That we may be bound together by your Holy Spirit in the communion of all your saints, entrusting one another and all our life to Christ, We entreat you, O Lord.Take a moment at this time to reflect and pray for the needs of others. Fifth Sunday in LentAlmighty God, you alone can bring into order the unruly wills and affections of sinners: Grant your people grace to love what you command and desire what you promise; that, among the swift and varied changes of the world, our hearts may surely there be fixed where true joys are to be found; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen.A Collect for PeaceMost holy God, the source of all good desires, all right judgments, and all just works: Give to us, your servants, that peace which the world cannot give, so that our minds may be fixed on the doing of your will, and that we, being delivered from the fear of all enemies, may live in peace and quietness; through the mercies of Christ Jesus our Savior. Amen.A Collect for Aid against PerilsBe our light in the darkness, O Lord, and in your great mercy defend us from all perils and dangers of this night; for the love of your only Son, our Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.For MissionKeep watch, dear Lord, with those who work, or watch, or weep this night, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend the sick, Lord Christ; give rest to the weary, bless the dying, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous; and all for your love's sake. Amen. ThanksgivingsThe General ThanksgivingAlmighty God, Father of all mercies, we your unworthy servants give you humble thanks for all your goodness and loving-kindness to us and to all whom you have made. We bless you for our creation, preservation, and all the blessings of this life; but above all for your immeasurable love in the redemption of the world by our Lord Jesus Christ; for the means of grace, and for the hope of glory. And, we pray, give us such an awareness of your mercies, that with truly thankful hearts we may show forth your praise, not only with our lips, but in our lives, by giving up our selves to your service, and by walking before you in holiness and righteousness all our days; through Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom, with you and the Holy Spirit, be honor and glory throughout all ages. Amen.A Prayer of St. ChrysostomAlmighty God, you have given us grace at this time with one accord to make our common supplication to you; and you have promised through your well-beloved Son that when two or three are gathered together in his Name you will be in the midst of them: Fulfill now, O Lord, our desires and petitions as may be best for us; granting us in this world knowledge of your truth, and in the age to come life everlasting. Amen. ConclusionMay the God of hope fill us with all joy and peace in believing through the power of the Holy Spirit. Amen. - Romans 15:13

March 4, 2024 Today's Reading: Exodus 20:1-17Daily Lectionary: Genesis 29:1-30, 31-34, Mark 9:14-32I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery (Exodus 20:2)In the Name + of Jesus. Amen. Today's reading is the Ten Commandments. Honestly, this section of Scripture can be a bit of a hard slog, where God is viewed as the great cosmic killjoy, setting out the rules we are to follow to keep Him happy. And as we try to follow these rules sometimes it can seem deeply unfair, as the harder we try the worse it can get, as we try to white-knuckle our way to holiness. And when we inevitably fail and mess up, we seemingly receive little consolation in God's declaration that He's a jealous God who will punish the children for the iniquity of their parents (Exodus 20:5). None of this seems fair at all. Then the temptation can be to maybe ignore some of the rules, perhaps God didn't really mean what he said? Or maybe major in the rules you know you can keep, downplaying the ones you can't, and hoping no one will notice, least of all God. In all this wrestling with the Ten Commandments and our sinful nature though it's easy to forget where God starts when He begins to speak. He does not say you are all a mess, and here's a plan to clean up your life. Nor does He say you are all having too much fun and I'm jealous so I'm going to ruin it for you. He does the opposite, He tells us about His character and His love for His people. He is a God who rescues from bondage, from certain death, He is a God interested in the delivery of His people. Here, He reminds His people, very freshly delivered out of slavery in Egypt by God through the hands of Moses, that He is their rescuer, their protector, their guardian, who wants to keep them safe and free. It can be easy to look at the Law as a new form of bondage, and it certainly does serve to keep our sinful natures corralled, but we are not free when our sinful natures are liberated, we are free in our new life in Christ. In our Baptism we are rescued from the bondage of sin, as our old selves are drowned, and raised to live in new life. That new life sees the danger in letting our sinful selves run free, and rejoices in the freedom in Christ to live the life He has called us to. In the Name + of Jesus. Amen.To Jesus we for refuge flee, Who from the curse has set us free, And humbly worship at His throne, Save by His grace through faith alone. (LSB 579:6) -Deac. Eleanor Corrow, Higher Things Board Member and coordinator in LCMS Missionary Services. Audio Reflections Speaker: Pastor Jonathan Lackey is the pastor at Grace Lutheran Church, Vine Grove, Ky.Unforgivable? Unforgiveness is a prison—mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. In a world full of turmoil, many use forgiveness as a coping mechanism without understanding what true forgiveness is. Learn what forgiveness from Christ looks like, and how He forgives His people.

Support Common Prayer Daily @ PatreonVisit our Website for more www.commonprayerdaily.com_______________LentLet my prayer be set forth in your sight as incense, the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.Psalm 141:2 ConfessionOfficiant: Let us humbly confess our sins unto Almighty God.People: Almighty and most merciful Father, we have erred and strayed from your ways like lost sheep. We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts. We have offended against your holy laws.We have left undone those things which we ought to have done, and we have done those things which we ought not to have done; and apart from your grace, there is no health in us. O Lord, have mercy upon us. Spare all those who confess their faults. Restore all those who are penitent, according to your promises declared to all people in Christ Jesus our Lord. And grant, O most merciful Father, for his sake, that we may now live a godly, righteous, and sober life, to the glory of your holy Name. Amen.Officiant: Almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us all our sins through our Lord Jesus Christ, strengthen us in all goodness, and by the power of the Holy Spirit keep us in eternal life. Amen. The Lord's PrayerOur Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen. Invitatory & PsalmsOfficiant: O God, make speed to save us. People: O Lord, make haste to help us. Officiant & People: Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. O Gracious Light Phos hilaronO gracious Light, pure brightness of the everliving Father in heaven, O Jesus Christ, holy and blessed!Now as we come to the setting of the sun, and our eyes behold the vesper light, we sing your praises, O God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.You are worthy at all times to be praised by happy voices, O Son of God, O Giver of life,and to be glorified through all the worlds. Psalm 69Salvum me fac1Save me, O God, *for the waters have risen up to my neck.2I am sinking in deep mire, *and there is no firm ground for my feet.3I have come into deep waters, *and the torrent washes over me.4I have grown weary with my crying;my throat is inflamed; *my eyes have failed from looking for my God.5Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head;my lying foes who would destroy me are mighty. *Must I then give back what I never stole?6O God, you know my foolishness, *and my faults are not hidden from you.7Let not those who hope in you be put to shame through me, Lord God of hosts; *let not those who seek you be disgraced because of me, O God of Israel.8Surely, for your sake have I suffered reproach, *and shame has covered my face.9I have become a stranger to my own kindred, *an alien to my mother's children.10Zeal for your house has eaten me up; *the scorn of those who scorn you has fallen upon me.11I humbled myself with fasting, *but that was turned to my reproach.12I put on sack-cloth also, *and became a byword among them.13Those who sit at the gate murmur against me, *and the drunkards make songs about me.14But as for me, this is my prayer to you, *at the time you have set, O Lord:15“In your great mercy, O God, *answer me with your unfailing help.16Save me from the mire; do not let me sink; *let me be rescued from those who hate meand out of the deep waters.17Let not the torrent of waters wash over me,neither let the deep swallow me up; *do not let the Pit shut its mouth upon me.18Answer me, O Lord, for your love is kind; *in your great compassion, turn to me.'19“Hide not your face from your servant; *be swift and answer me, for I am in distress.20Draw near to me and redeem me; *because of my enemies deliver me.21You know my reproach, my shame, and my dishonor; *my adversaries are all in your sight.”22Reproach has broken my heart, and it cannot be healed; *I looked for sympathy, but there was none,for comforters, but I could find no one.23They gave me gall to eat, *and when I was thirsty, they gave me vinegar to drink. 31As for me, I am afflicted and in pain; *your help, O God, will lift me up on high.32I will praise the Name of God in song; *I will proclaim his greatness with thanksgiving.33This will please the Lord more than an offering of oxen, *more than bullocks with horns and hoofs.34The afflicted shall see and be glad; *you who seek God, your heart shall live.35For the Lord listens to the needy, *and his prisoners he does not despise.36Let the heavens and the earth praise him, *the seas and all that moves in them;37For God will save Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah; *they shall live there and have it in possession. Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. The LessonsJeremiah 6:1-8English Standard Version6 Flee for safety, O people of Benjamin,    from the midst of Jerusalem!Blow the trumpet in Tekoa,    and raise a signal on Beth-haccherem,for disaster looms out of the north,    and great destruction.2 The lovely and delicately bred I will destroy,    the daughter of Zion.3 Shepherds with their flocks shall come against her;    they shall pitch their tents around her;    they shall pasture, each in his place.4 “Prepare war against her;    arise, and let us attack at noon!Woe to us, for the day declines,    for the shadows of evening lengthen!5 Arise, and let us attack by night    and destroy her palaces!”6 For thus says the Lord of hosts:“Cut down her trees;    cast up a siege mound against Jerusalem.This is the city that must be punished;    there is nothing but oppression within her.7 As a well keeps its water fresh,    so she keeps fresh her evil;violence and destruction are heard within her;    sickness and wounds are ever before me.8 Be warned, O Jerusalem,    lest I turn from you in disgust,lest I make you a desolation,    an uninhabited land.”Officiant: The Word of the LordPeople: Thanks be to God. The Song of Mary - MagnificatMy soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord, my spirit rejoices in God my Savior; * for he has looked with favor on his lowly servant From this day all generations will call me blessed: * the Almighty has done great things for me, and holy is his Name. He has mercy on those who fear him * in every generation.He has shown the strength of his arm, * he has scattered the proud in their conceit.He has cast down the mighty from their thrones, * and has lifted up the lowly. He has filled the hungry with good things, * and the rich he has sent away empty. He has come to the help of his servant Israel, * for he has remembered his promise of mercy, The promise he made to our fathers, * to Abraham and his children for ever.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: *as It was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. John 11:28-44English Standard Version28 When she had said this, she went and called her sister Mary, saying in private, “The Teacher is here and is calling for you.” 29 And when she heard it, she rose quickly and went to him. 30 Now Jesus had not yet come into the village, but was still in the place where Martha had met him. 31 When the Jews who were with her in the house, consoling her, saw Mary rise quickly and go out, they followed her, supposing that she was going to the tomb to weep there. 32 Now when Mary came to where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet, saying to him, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” 33 When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in his spirit and greatly troubled. 34 And he said, “Where have you laid him?” They said to him, “Lord, come and see.” 35 Jesus wept. 36 So the Jews said, “See how he loved him!” 37 But some of them said, “Could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man also have kept this man from dying?”38 Then Jesus, deeply moved again, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39 Jesus said, “Take away the stone.” Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, “Lord, by this time there will be an odor, for he has been dead four days.” 40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God?” 41 So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me.” 43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out.” 44 The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.”Officiant: The Word of the LordPeople: Thanks be to God. The Song of Simeon - Nunc dimittisLord, you now have set your servant free * to go in peace as you have promised; For these eyes of mine have seen the Savior, * whom you have prepared for all the world to see: A Light to enlighten the nations, * and the glory of your people Israel.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: * as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. The CreedI believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. The PrayersOfficiant: The Lord be with you.People: And also with you.Officiant: Let us pray The SuffragesThat this evening may be holy, good, and peaceful, We entreat you, O Lord.That your holy angels may lead us in paths of peace and goodwill, We entreat you, O Lord.That we may be pardoned and forgiven for our sins and offenses, We entreat you, O Lord.That there may be peace to your Church and to the whole world, We entreat you, O Lord.That we may depart this life in your faith and fear, and not be condemned before the great judgment seat of Christ, We entreat you, O Lord.That we may be bound together by your Holy Spirit in the communion of all your saints, entrusting one another and all our life to Christ, We entreat you, O Lord.Take a moment at this time to reflect and pray for the needs of others. Second Sunday in Lent (BCP 1979)O God, whose glory it is always to have mercy: Be gracious to all who have gone astray from your ways, and bring them again with penitent hearts and steadfast faith to embrace and hold fast the unchangeable truth of your Word, Jesus Christ your Son; who with you and the Holy Spirit lives and reigns, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.A Collect for PeaceMost holy God, the source of all good desires, all right judgments, and all just works: Give to us, your servants, that peace which the world cannot give, so that our minds may be fixed on the doing of your will, and that we, being delivered from the fear of all enemies, may live in peace and quietness; through the mercies of Christ Jesus our Savior. Amen.A Collect for Aid against PerilsBe our light in the darkness, O Lord, and in your great mercy defend us from all perils and dangers of this night; for the love of your only Son, our Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.For MissionKeep watch, dear Lord, with those who work, or watch, or weep this night, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend the sick, Lord Christ; give rest to the weary, bless the dying, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous; and all for your love's sake. Amen. ThanksgivingsThe General ThanksgivingAlmighty God, Father of all mercies, we your unworthy servants give you humble thanks for all your goodness and loving-kindness to us and to all whom you have made. We bless you for our creation, preservation, and all the blessings of this life; but above all for your immeasurable love in the redemption of the world by our Lord Jesus Christ; for the means of grace, and for the hope of glory. And, we pray, give us such an awareness of your mercies, that with truly thankful hearts we may show forth your praise, not only with our lips, but in our lives, by giving up our selves to your service, and by walking before you in holiness and righteousness all our days; through Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom, with you and the Holy Spirit, be honor and glory throughout all ages. Amen.A Prayer of St. ChrysostomAlmighty God, you have given us grace at this time with one accord to make our common supplication to you; and you have promised through your well-beloved Son that when two or three are gathered together in his Name you will be in the midst of them: Fulfill now, O Lord, our desires and petitions as may be best for us; granting us in this world knowledge of your truth, and in the age to come life everlasting. Amen. ConclusionMay the God of hope fill us with all joy and peace in believing through the power of the Holy Spirit. Amen. - Romans 15:13

This Episode of On Culture Interacts with Gnats and Camels - from The Embassy -Here is an excerpt -Instead of a real conflict about a real situation faced by real people - answering the question how does our Christian theology fit into this real life situation? … what are the missional implications of loving those whom we are called to reach while holding to what we believe to be true theologically? We get something far stupider - “you are bad.”Jesus spent a lot of time (a distressing amount of time in the eyes of the religious leaders of the day) with people who were publicly living outside of the teachings and practices given to God's people. One of the chief “proofs” in the eyes of those leaders, the Pharisees, that Jesus could not be a true prophet was their belief that a true prophet would know how bad these people were. The assumption being that anyone who had this knowledge would not go to their houses, join them for dinner, enjoy their hospitality. They were wrong about all of that. That is the context of his saying -Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”Luke 5:31-32I can understand that some might be offended by the apparent implication that those at a same-sex or transgender wedding are the sick who need the doctor. I mean that only in so far as all of us do. Jesus' words are on two levels. Coming after his sermon on the mount, where none who honestly read this teaching would call themselves ‘righteous' - he is saying not only that these public ‘sinners' need to be restored, but that those asking the question need also to be restored, just from a different malady. It is the central lesson of the parable of the prodigal son. The older brother needs grace no less than the younger one. We all need the physician. Recognizing the need is the only qualification for receiving it.In fact, all the harsh words we see from Jesus, and there are plenty, are directed against those who should know better - in particular, the religious leaders of the day. The entirety of Matthew chapter 23 is devoted to Jesus' harsh words against these religious leaders. One passage in particular seems to apply to this controversy and to all other similar controversies in the Christian world - and there are many.“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.Matthew 23:23-24Jesus is telling some of us that we have missed the point. Fine, if you want to follow the teachings of the Old Testament to give a tenth of what you have as an offering down to the point of counting out your spices and seeds so as to get the exact right number - you may. Either way, don't neglect the more important matters of the law - justice, mercy and faithfulness. Don't miss the point. Don't strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. If you want to strain out the gnats, fine. But once you have swallowed your first camel you know that you have missed the point. You know that you have misplaced the marker of your righteousness.Read the whole piece at The EmbassyThe Embassy is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Embassy at theembassy.substack.com/subscribe

Support Common Prayer Daily @ PatreonVisit our Website for more www.commonprayerdaily.com_______________Opening Words:“Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.”Psalm 19:14 (ESV) Confession:Let us humbly confess our sins unto Almighty God. Most merciful God, we confess that we have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we humbly repent. For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and forgive us; that we may delight in your will, and walk in your ways, to the glory of your Name. Amen. Almighty God have mercy on you, forgive you all your sins through our Lord Jesus Christ, strengthen you in all goodness, and by the power of the Holy Spirit keep you in eternal life. Amen. The InvitatoryLord, open our lips.And our mouth shall proclaim your praise.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. Venite (Psalm 95:1-7)Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: Come let us adore him. Come, let us sing to the Lord; * let us shout for joy to the Rock of our salvation.Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving * and raise a loud shout to him with psalms.For the Lord is a great God, * and a great King above all gods.In his hand are the caverns of the earth, * and the heights of the hills are his also.The sea is his, for he made it, * and his hands have molded the dry land.Come, let us bow down, and bend the knee, * and kneel before the Lord our Maker.For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture and the sheep of his hand. *Oh, that today you would hearken to his voice! Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: Come let us adore him. The PsalterPsalm 69Salvum me fac1Save me, O God, *for the waters have risen up to my neck.2I am sinking in deep mire, *and there is no firm ground for my feet.3I have come into deep waters, *and the torrent washes over me.4I have grown weary with my crying;my throat is inflamed; *my eyes have failed from looking for my God.5Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head;my lying foes who would destroy me are mighty. *Must I then give back what I never stole?6O God, you know my foolishness, *and my faults are not hidden from you.7Let not those who hope in you be put to shame through me, Lord God of hosts; *let not those who seek you be disgraced because of me, O God of Israel.8Surely, for your sake have I suffered reproach, *and shame has covered my face.9I have become a stranger to my own kindred, *an alien to my mother's children.10Zeal for your house has eaten me up; *the scorn of those who scorn you has fallen upon me.11I humbled myself with fasting, *but that was turned to my reproach.12I put on sack-cloth also, *and became a byword among them.13Those who sit at the gate murmur against me, *and the drunkards make songs about me.14But as for me, this is my prayer to you, *at the time you have set, O Lord:15“In your great mercy, O God, *answer me with your unfailing help.16Save me from the mire; do not let me sink; *let me be rescued from those who hate meand out of the deep waters.17Let not the torrent of waters wash over me,neither let the deep swallow me up; *do not let the Pit shut its mouth upon me.18Answer me, O Lord, for your love is kind; *in your great compassion, turn to me.'19“Hide not your face from your servant; *be swift and answer me, for I am in distress.20Draw near to me and redeem me; *because of my enemies deliver me.21You know my reproach, my shame, and my dishonor; *my adversaries are all in your sight.”22Reproach has broken my heart, and it cannot be healed; *I looked for sympathy, but there was none,for comforters, but I could find no one.23They gave me gall to eat, *and when I was thirsty, they gave me vinegar to drink.31As for me, I am afflicted and in pain; *your help, O God, will lift me up on high.32I will praise the Name of God in song; *I will proclaim his greatness with thanksgiving.33This will please the Lord more than an offering of oxen, *more than bullocks with horns and hoofs.34The afflicted shall see and be glad; *you who seek God, your heart shall live.35For the Lord listens to the needy, *and his prisoners he does not despise.36Let the heavens and the earth praise him, *the seas and all that moves in them;37For God will save Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah; *they shall live there and have it in possession.38The children of his servants will inherit it, *and those who love his Name will dwell therein. Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: *as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. LessonsEzra 7:27-28English Standard Version27 Blessed be the Lord, the God of our fathers, who put such a thing as this into the heart of the king, to beautify the house of the Lord that is in Jerusalem, 28 and who extended to me his steadfast love before the king and his counselors, and before all the king's mighty officers. I took courage, for the hand of the Lord my God was on me, and I gathered leading men from Israel to go up with me.Ezra 8:21-36English Standard Version21 Then I proclaimed a fast there, at the river Ahava, that we might humble ourselves before our God, to seek from him a safe journey for ourselves, our children, and all our goods. 22 For I was ashamed to ask the king for a band of soldiers and horsemen to protect us against the enemy on our way, since we had told the king, “The hand of our God is for good on all who seek him, and the power of his wrath is against all who forsake him.” 23 So we fasted and implored our God for this, and he listened to our entreaty.24 Then I set apart twelve of the leading priests: Sherebiah, Hashabiah, and ten of their kinsmen with them. 25 And I weighed out to them the silver and the gold and the vessels, the offering for the house of our God that the king and his counselors and his lords and all Israel there present had offered. 26 I weighed out into their hand 650 talents of silver, and silver vessels worth 200 talents, and 100 talents of gold, 27 20 bowls of gold worth 1,000 darics, and two vessels of fine bright bronze as precious as gold. 28 And I said to them, “You are holy to the Lord, and the vessels are holy, and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering to the Lord, the God of your fathers. 29 Guard them and keep them until you weigh them before the chief priests and the Levites and the heads of fathers' houses in Israel at Jerusalem, within the chambers of the house of the Lord.” 30 So the priests and the Levites took over the weight of the silver and the gold and the vessels, to bring them to Jerusalem, to the house of our God.31 Then we departed from the river Ahava on the twelfth day of the first month, to go to Jerusalem. The hand of our God was on us, and he delivered us from the hand of the enemy and from ambushes by the way. 32 We came to Jerusalem, and there we remained three days. 33 On the fourth day, within the house of our God, the silver and the gold and the vessels were weighed into the hands of Meremoth the priest, son of Uriah, and with him was Eleazar the son of Phinehas, and with them were the Levites, Jozabad the son of Jeshua and Noadiah the son of Binnui. 34 The whole was counted and weighed, and the weight of everything was recorded.35 At that time those who had come from captivity, the returned exiles, offered burnt offerings to the God of Israel, twelve bulls for all Israel, ninety-six rams, seventy-seven lambs, and as a sin offering twelve male goats. All this was a burnt offering to the Lord. 36 They also delivered the king's commissions to the king's satraps and to the governors of the province Beyond the River, and they aided the people and the house of God.Revelation 15English Standard Version15 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and amazing, seven angels with seven plagues, which are the last, for with them the wrath of God is finished.2 And I saw what appeared to be a sea of glass mingled with fire—and also those who had conquered the beast and its image and the number of its name, standing beside the sea of glass with harps of God in their hands. 3 And they sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying,“Great and amazing are your deeds,    O Lord God the Almighty!Just and true are your ways,    O King of the nations!4 Who will not fear, O Lord,    and glorify your name?For you alone are holy.    All nations will come    and worship you,for your righteous acts have been revealed.”5 After this I looked, and the sanctuary of the tent of witness in heaven was opened, 6 and out of the sanctuary came the seven angels with the seven plagues, clothed in pure, bright linen, with golden sashes around their chests. 7 And one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever, 8 and the sanctuary was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the sanctuary until the seven plagues of the seven angels were finished. The Word of the Lord.Thanks Be To God. Benedictus (The Song of Zechariah)Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel; * he has come to his people and set them free.He has raised up for us a mighty savior, * born of the house of his servant David.Through his holy prophets he promised of old, that he would save us from our enemies, * from the hands of all who hate us. He promised to show mercy to our fathers * and to remember his holy covenant. This was the oath he swore to our father Abraham, * to set us free from the hands of our enemies, Free to worship him without fear, * holy and righteous in his sight all the days of our life.You, my child, shall be called the prophet of the Most High, * for you will go before the Lord to prepare his way, To give his people knowledge of salvation * by the forgiveness of their sins.In the tender compassion of our God * the dawn from on high shall break upon us, To shine on those who dwell in darkness and the shadow of death, * and to guide our feet into the way of peace.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. The Apostles CreedI believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. The PrayersLord, have mercy.Christ, have mercyLord, have mercyOur Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever and ever. Amen. The SuffragesO Lord, show your mercy upon us;And grant us your salvation.O Lord, guide those who govern usAnd lead us in the way of justice and truth.Clothe your ministers with righteousnessAnd let your people sing with joy.O Lord, save your peopleAnd bless your inheritance.Give peace in our time, O LordAnd defend us by your mighty power.Let not the needy, O Lord, be forgottenNor the hope of the poor be taken away.Create in us clean hearts, O GodAnd take not your Holy Spirit from us. Take a moment of silence at this time to reflect and pray for others. The CollectsProper 26Almighty and merciful God, it is only by your gift that your faithful people offer you true and laudable service: Grant that we may run without stumbling to obtain your heavenly promises; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen. Daily Collects:A Collect for PeaceO God, the author of peace and lover of concord, to know you is eternal life and to serve you is perfect freedom: Defend us, your humble servants, in all assaults of our enemies; that we, surely trusting in your defense, may not fear the power of any adversaries, through the might of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.A Collect for GraceO Lord, our heavenly Father, almighty and everlasting God, you have brought us safely to the beginning of this day: Defend us by your mighty power, that we may not fall into sin nor run into any danger; and that, guided by your Spirit, we may do what is righteous in your sight; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.Collect of Saint BasilO Christ God, Who art worshipped and glorified at every place and time; Who art long-suffering, most merciful and compassionate; Who lovest the righteous and art merciful to sinners; Who callest all to salvation with the promise of good things to come: receive, Lord, the prayers we now offer, and direct our lives in the way of Thy commandments. Sanctify our souls, cleanse our bodies, correct our thoughts, purify our minds and deliver us from all affliction, evil and illness. Surround us with Thy holy angels, that guarded and instructed by their forces, we may reach unity of faith and the understanding of Thine unapproachable glory: for blessed art Thou unto ages of ages. Amen. General ThanksgivingAlmighty God, Father of all mercies, we your unworthy servants give you humble thanks for all your goodness and loving-kindness to us and to all whom you have made. We bless you for our creation, preservation, and all the blessings of this life; but above all for your immeasurable love in the redemption of the world by our Lord Jesus Christ; for the means of grace, and for the hope of glory. And, we pray, give us such an awareness of your mercies, that with truly thankful hearts we may show forth your praise, not only with our lips, but in our lives, by giving up our selves to your service, and by walking before you in holiness and righteousness all our days; Through Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom, with you and the Holy Spirit, be honor and glory throughout all ages. Amen. A Prayer of St. John ChrysostomAlmighty God, you have given us grace at this time, with one accord to make our common supplications to you; and you have promised through your well-beloved Son that when two or three are gathered together in his Name you will grant their requests: Fulfill now, O Lord, our desires and petitions as may be best for us; granting us in this world knowledge of your truth, and in the age to come life everlasting. Amen. DismissalLet us bless the LordThanks be to God!Alleluia, Alleluia! BenedictionThe grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with us all evermore. Amen

00:09Welcome to the imperfect Buddhist, where we discuss mindfulness and incorporating Zen Buddhism into modern life. My name is Matthew Hawk Mahoney and today's episode is titled Buddhism and Love.00:52Thank you for stopping in and listening. Whether this is your first episode or I don't know what episode I'm on, maybe your 50th. I really appreciate you sticking with me and stopping in. It's been a while since I've shared with you. It's amazing how the days blend together. When I'm working from home, it seems like weeks can go by, months. And even the last couple years seems like they've gone by very fast. And I was looking at...01:19episodes and realized, wow, I haven't talked with you in a while, so I wanted to change that.01:26Love and Buddhism. I had a friend recently when we were talking about Buddhism bring up the idea that some Buddhists don't believe in relationships as far as sexual, physical relationships or marriage. I think I've heard that from other people before. When we're talking about love though, we're talking more about the concept of seeing yourself in someone else, seeing unity. I quote,01:55When you love someone, you have to offer the best you have. The best thing we can offer another person is our true presence. Thich Nhat Hanh. It's being present with somebody, seeking to understand, and eventually even seeing your true identity, which is the presence that witnesses, realizing that's in that other person. You recognize your oneness. Please know that I'm not there yet. This is the imperfect Buddhist. I didn't say I'm completely at this place yet.02:24But I have had visions or insight moments where I've felt that connectedness, oneness, and had moved from my head of thinking about this concept of oneness and actually experiencing it.02:51Love and our culture. How does this topic or concept of love relate to our culture? Love is a word often used in titles for Netflix shows, like Love is Blind. It's used a lot in songs, song lyrics. People say, hey, I love ice cream or I love pizza. I think a lot of people don't have a very deep definition of what love means.03:20We have a culture around love, which is this commercialized version. We have sayings about love, love your neighbor, or I love that pizza, but what does this really mean?03:32I've been married for almost... Oh my God, don't tell my wife I'm forgetting our anniversary, but I wanna say we've been married for six or seven years. At the time when we were dating, I was reading this book called The Road Less Traveled. It had a pretty profound impact on my life and the way that I look at reality. When I met Amanda, we both read that book together, and it has a really great definition of love. And so I'm gonna read that for you. M. Scott Peck, the author, defines love as...04:00The will to extend oneself for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth. Actually, that was my first real definition of love. It gave new meaning to the word love. Before that, love was something that was thrown around in songs or in pop culture or something you'd say in a sentence, but it didn't really have any real meaning.04:30My own journey with the concept of love has been evolving quite a bit lately. I recently started the book A Course in Miracles, which is definitely not in Zen or Buddhist tradition, but it has a lot of powerful things to say about love, about human experience and what it means to be connected with other people. The author claims that they...04:58channeled this work and it seems to be written from the viewpoint of Jesus. I know that is enough to make most people's eyes roll and typically would make my eyes roll, but I gave it a try because somebody that I really respect in the mindfulness teachings mentioned it and said this is a really powerful book and make up your own mind. So I did and I have gotten a lot out of it, especially around the concept of love and action in05:26love's role in life. Through reading it I am starting to recognize love as an experience and a phenomenon rather than just a thought or an action. That there is this energy of love that we can experience. We can also be the transmitter of love. This is all sounding new agey but all that means is that we choose loving action. We choose to see people as ourselves and treat them accordingly.05:56quote from A Course in Miracles, teach only love for that is what you are.06:04The idea in A Course in Miracles is that there is only love, everything else is an illusion and a fiction created in the minds of men and women and that awakening is coming home to that reality that there is only love. In Buddhist texts, the Dhammapada says, hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love. This is the eternal rule.06:49I want to talk a little bit about the reality of applying some of these concepts in my own life. A lot of my practice comes up in work. That makes sense, right? I spend a lot of my time other than sleeping or at home at work. There's a person that, personality-wise, I actually, I don't really have much of a problem with them, but it seems that they really are not a fan of me. From the beginning, I remember my second day at this job. It's a remote job, but I had flown in to the location and had...07:18Just met everybody and I think it was like day two and I remember walking into the shared office space with a team and this person gave me this very, kind of like they're looking right through me, glaring. As time went on it became very apparent that this person just didn't like me, eventually resulting in me talking with my boss and saying, hey, do you think this person has it out for me? And he said, yeah, they do. It's not me projecting anymore. It's very obvious that this person doesn't like me.07:49I've had different reactions to this. There's been times where I felt very defensive. My boss would bring up to me something that this person had come to them with telling on me or finding a reason to point out a mistake that I made. I've did the defensive thing where I got brought up and I started going into being defensive and trying to point out this person's flaws and all that. Coming at it like this didn't feel good. At the end of the day, after08:14Going through the dramas of complaining to other people, feeling offended, or maybe even in some ways trying to suck up or be nicer to this person that doesn't like me. Trying to like, maybe influence this opinion they have of me. It just didn't feel good. It didn't feel right. Reading A Course in Miracles, it was starting to influence me to start to look at other people in a new way, including this person, from the perspective of, okay, I've made the mistake also where I just decided somebody was bad or negative, never even speaking to them.08:45So after spinning my wheels with all of the traditional routes, complaining, trying to coerce the situation, I started applying this idea of... I guess put it the simple way, treating other people the way I want to be treated. I would hope in a situation where I was misguided in my assumptions about someone, or projecting a lot on somebody else, I would hope that they would be able and willing to forgive me and to recognize the pain that I was in.09:14It's changed the dynamic between us, not necessarily that it's changed this person's mind about me, but it's changed the dynamic within myself where it really doesn't bother me much anymore. I'm doing what I can, doing my best, trying to treat the people around me with love, including this person.09:33Going back to that concept of acting for my own or another person's own spiritual growth in that moment where this person is projecting onto me or treating me unfairly, what is the best thing for my own and this other person's spiritual growth?09:49Not really being that offended or hurt by the projections that this person is pushing out because that would only strengthen the illusion in themselves and myself. I get offended or I start to want to change a course, the situation, it's strengthening that illusion, which has no reality.10:15Another breakthrough that's come from this embracing of love as a guide for my actions and thoughts is jealousy, especially in romantic relationships.10:30It started all the way back to when I was like really a little kid. I remember being worried that my mom or my dad were going to cheat on each other. I'd ask them, are you cheating on dad or are you cheating on mom? And then as the years went by, my parents got a divorce and I remember being jealous of my mom's time when she got remarried. I suddenly just felt like I wasn't getting the same attention. Got into my first relationship, one of those little teenage fights where you break up for a weekend.10:58And during one of these weekend breakups, she went on a date with another guy, ended up making out with him, who knows what happened. I'm questioning her for months about what really happened. It got ingrained at a young age, these patterns of jealousy, suspicion, and fear. In my marriage now, there are moments where I start to go down that path of imagining my wife doing something behind my back or going out with somebody or saying that she's...11:24going to the Goodwill to go shopping for used clothes or whatever, but really she's out with this guy.11:32I had a realization recently where I was like, okay, what is loving in this moment? So say my wife was in a situation where she really decided to do that. What kind of pain would she have to be in or confusion or illusion or whatever you want to call it? She'd have to be in a very dark, hurt place to be taking such actions. This consideration shifted things for me where suddenly I wasn't afraid, but I was feeling compassion.12:01It was a shift from fear into love and trying to see things through other people's eyes, but also seeing other people as myself.12:11It was a game changing shift. I still have those moments where I get fearful or I start to go down the questioning path about things, but it definitely feels like it's shifting the dynamic. It also helps when you have a partner that is loving and seeking my own and her own spiritual growth. There is moments where she might get a little bit angry, but overall she's like, you're in pain. You're really fearful and anxious right now because you're going down that path. Let me help you. Let me.12:39help walk you through this and show you that I love you and that we'll get through this together.12:54Welcome to the quick tip portion of the episode. We're going to talk a little bit about meta practice. I'm going to tell you a brief overview of how to do a meta practice or meta meditation. But I also wanted to let you know that there is a guided meta meditation available at my website, theimperfectbuddhist.com. The general guidelines for meta meditation.13:21You want to find a comfortable place to sit where you're not going to be interrupted and that you can have some privacy and you can feel comfortable. Not worry about someone walking in on you or looking at you weird. It's all about you connecting with your own body and breath and your heart in this moment.13:39You're going to find that place, take a couple deep breaths and relax. Focus on the area of your heart, along with the sensation of your breathing. You're going to begin by directing loving kindness to yourself. So you can repeat phrases in your own mind or out loud. If you have the privacy, such as, may I be happy? May I be well? May I be safe? May I be peaceful and at ease? And you're going to let.14:06Those feelings of warmth and love grow as you're saying that. You're cultivating this love inside to yourself, which, you know, can be complicated for some people. After you've gotten the love flowing, you're going to bring to mind someone who has cared for you deeply. Maybe it's like a mom, friend, sibling, partner. You're going to use the same phrases. May I be happy. May I be well. May I be safe. May I be peaceful and at ease.14:36It will allow those feelings of warmth and love to grow.14:41sinking into that heartfelt meaning and connecting with those loving feelings that arise. You're going to continue the meditation by gradually extending loving kindness, meditation to other people in your life. Eventually, you're going to extend this loving kindness to somebody you have difficulty with. So in my situation, it would be this co-worker that has it out for me, quote, unquote. And as you practice, you're going to encounter different feelings. Some people experience anger, grief, sadness.15:10These are all signs of your heart opening up. These are things that you're holding on to. When these things, emotions like clouds in the sky, you're not boxing them in. You're just simply watching them as they pass by. As they start to fade away, you can return back to your loving kindness meditation. With all meditation practices, there's no need to judge yourself.15:34The benefits of loving kindness is it cultivates compassion, love, and connection both towards ourselves and other people in our lives. It's a transformative practice that can bring peace and well-being into our lives.15:50Thanks for stopping in, I look forward to talking to you next week. Alright, bye bye.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-imperfect-buddhist/donations

Support Common Prayer Daily @ PatreonVisit our Website for more www.commonprayerdaily.com_______________Opening Words:“Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.”Psalm 19:14 (ESV) Confession:Let us humbly confess our sins unto Almighty God. Most merciful God, we confess that we have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we humbly repent. For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and forgive us; that we may delight in your will, and walk in your ways, to the glory of your Name. Amen. Almighty God have mercy on you, forgive you all your sins through our Lord Jesus Christ, strengthen you in all goodness, and by the power of the Holy Spirit keep you in eternal life. Amen. The InvitatoryLord, open our lips.And our mouth shall proclaim your praise.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. Venite (Psalm 95:1-7)Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: Come let us adore him. Come, let us sing to the Lord; * let us shout for joy to the Rock of our salvation.Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving * and raise a loud shout to him with psalms.For the Lord is a great God, * and a great King above all gods.In his hand are the caverns of the earth, * and the heights of the hills are his also.The sea is his, for he made it, * and his hands have molded the dry land.Come, let us bow down, and bend the knee, * and kneel before the Lord our Maker.For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture and the sheep of his hand. *Oh, that today you would hearken to his voice! Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: Come let us adore him. The PsalterPsalm 69Salvum me fac1Save me, O God, *for the waters have risen up to my neck.2I am sinking in deep mire, *and there is no firm ground for my feet.3I have come into deep waters, *and the torrent washes over me.4I have grown weary with my crying;my throat is inflamed; *my eyes have failed from looking for my God.5Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head;my lying foes who would destroy me are mighty. *Must I then give back what I never stole?6O God, you know my foolishness, *and my faults are not hidden from you.7Let not those who hope in you be put to shame through me, Lord God of hosts; *let not those who seek you be disgraced because of me, O God of Israel.8Surely, for your sake have I suffered reproach, *and shame has covered my face.9I have become a stranger to my own kindred, *an alien to my mother's children.10Zeal for your house has eaten me up; *the scorn of those who scorn you has fallen upon me.11I humbled myself with fasting, *but that was turned to my reproach.12I put on sack-cloth also, *and became a byword among them.13Those who sit at the gate murmur against me, *and the drunkards make songs about me.14But as for me, this is my prayer to you, *at the time you have set, O Lord:15“In your great mercy, O God, *answer me with your unfailing help.16Save me from the mire; do not let me sink; *let me be rescued from those who hate meand out of the deep waters.17Let not the torrent of waters wash over me,neither let the deep swallow me up; *do not let the Pit shut its mouth upon me.18Answer me, O Lord, for your love is kind; *in your great compassion, turn to me.'19“Hide not your face from your servant; *be swift and answer me, for I am in distress.20Draw near to me and redeem me; *because of my enemies deliver me.21You know my reproach, my shame, and my dishonor; *my adversaries are all in your sight.”22Reproach has broken my heart, and it cannot be healed; *I looked for sympathy, but there was none,for comforters, but I could find no one.23They gave me gall to eat, *and when I was thirsty, they gave me vinegar to drink.31As for me, I am afflicted and in pain; *your help, O God, will lift me up on high.32I will praise the Name of God in song; *I will proclaim his greatness with thanksgiving.33This will please the Lord more than an offering of oxen, *more than bullocks with horns and hoofs.34The afflicted shall see and be glad; *you who seek God, your heart shall live.35For the Lord listens to the needy, *and his prisoners he does not despise.36Let the heavens and the earth praise him, *the seas and all that moves in them;37For God will save Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah; *they shall live there and have it in possession.38The children of his servants will inherit it, *and those who love his Name will dwell therein. Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: *as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. Lessons2 Kings 1:2-17English Standard Version2 Now Ahaziah fell through the lattice in his upper chamber in Samaria, and lay sick; so he sent messengers, telling them, “Go, inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron, whether I shall recover from this sickness.” 3 But the angel of the Lord said to Elijah the Tishbite, “Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say to them, ‘Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are going to inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron? 4 Now therefore thus says the Lord, You shall not come down from the bed to which you have gone up, but you shall surely die.'” So Elijah went.5 The messengers returned to the king, and he said to them, “Why have you returned?” 6 And they said to him, “There came a man to meet us, and said to us, ‘Go back to the king who sent you, and say to him, Thus says the Lord, Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are sending to inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron? Therefore you shall not come down from the bed to which you have gone up, but you shall surely die.'” 7 He said to them, “What kind of man was he who came to meet you and told you these things?” 8 They answered him, “He wore a garment of hair, with a belt of leather about his waist.” And he said, “It is Elijah the Tishbite.”9 Then the king sent to him a captain of fifty men with his fifty. He went up to Elijah, who was sitting on the top of a hill, and said to him, “O man of God, the king says, ‘Come down.'” 10 But Elijah answered the captain of fifty, “If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty.” Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.11 Again the king sent to him another captain of fifty men with his fifty. And he answered and said to him, “O man of God, this is the king's order, ‘Come down quickly!'” 12 But Elijah answered them, “If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty.” Then the fire of God came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.13 Again the king sent the captain of a third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up and came and fell on his knees before Elijah and entreated him, “O man of God, please let my life, and the life of these fifty servants of yours, be precious in your sight. 14 Behold, fire came down from heaven and consumed the two former captains of fifty men with their fifties, but now let my life be precious in your sight.” 15 Then the angel of the Lord said to Elijah, “Go down with him; do not be afraid of him.” So he arose and went down with him to the king 16 and said to him, “Thus says the Lord, ‘Because you have sent messengers to inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron—is it because there is no God in Israel to inquire of his word?—therefore you shall not come down from the bed to which you have gone up, but you shall surely die.'”17 So he died according to the word of the Lord that Elijah had spoken. Jehoram became king in his place in the second year of Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat, king of Judah, because Ahaziah had no son.1 Corinthians 3:16-23English Standard Version16 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 21 So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are Christ's, and Christ is God's. The Word of the Lord.Thanks Be To God. Benedictus (The Song of Zechariah)Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel; * he has come to his people and set them free.He has raised up for us a mighty savior, * born of the house of his servant David.Through his holy prophets he promised of old, that he would save us from our enemies, * from the hands of all who hate us. He promised to show mercy to our fathers * and to remember his holy covenant. This was the oath he swore to our father Abraham, * to set us free from the hands of our enemies, Free to worship him without fear, * holy and righteous in his sight all the days of our life.You, my child, shall be called the prophet of the Most High, * for you will go before the Lord to prepare his way, To give his people knowledge of salvation * by the forgiveness of their sins.In the tender compassion of our God * the dawn from on high shall break upon us, To shine on those who dwell in darkness and the shadow of death, * and to guide our feet into the way of peace.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. The Apostles CreedI believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. The PrayersLord, have mercy.Christ, have mercyLord, have mercyOur Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever and ever. Amen. The SuffragesO Lord, show your mercy upon us;And grant us your salvation.O Lord, guide those who govern usAnd lead us in the way of justice and truth.Clothe your ministers with righteousnessAnd let your people sing with joy.O Lord, save your peopleAnd bless your inheritance.Give peace in our time, O LordAnd defend us by your mighty power.Let not the needy, O Lord, be forgottenNor the hope of the poor be taken away.Create in us clean hearts, O GodAnd take not your Holy Spirit from us. Take a moment of silence at this time to reflect and pray for others. The CollectsProper 19O God, because without you we are not able to please you, mercifully grant that your Holy Spirit may in all things direct and rule our hearts; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen. Daily Collects:A Collect for PeaceO God, the author of peace and lover of concord, to know you is eternal life and to serve you is perfect freedom: Defend us, your humble servants, in all assaults of our enemies; that we, surely trusting in your defense, may not fear the power of any adversaries, through the might of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.A Collect for GraceO Lord, our heavenly Father, almighty and everlasting God, you have brought us safely to the beginning of this day: Defend us by your mighty power, that we may not fall into sin nor run into any danger; and that, guided by your Spirit, we may do what is righteous in your sight; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.Collect of Saint BasilO Christ God, Who art worshipped and glorified at every place and time; Who art long-suffering, most merciful and compassionate; Who lovest the righteous and art merciful to sinners; Who callest all to salvation with the promise of good things to come: receive, Lord, the prayers we now offer, and direct our lives in the way of Thy commandments. Sanctify our souls, cleanse our bodies, correct our thoughts, purify our minds and deliver us from all affliction, evil and illness. Surround us with Thy holy angels, that guarded and instructed by their forces, we may reach unity of faith and the understanding of Thine unapproachable glory: for blessed art Thou unto ages of ages. Amen. General ThanksgivingAlmighty God, Father of all mercies, we your unworthy servants give you humble thanks for all your goodness and loving-kindness to us and to all whom you have made. We bless you for our creation, preservation, and all the blessings of this life; but above all for your immeasurable love in the redemption of the world by our Lord Jesus Christ; for the means of grace, and for the hope of glory. And, we pray, give us such an awareness of your mercies, that with truly thankful hearts we may show forth your praise, not only with our lips, but in our lives, by giving up our selves to your service, and by walking before you in holiness and righteousness all our days; Through Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom, with you and the Holy Spirit, be honor and glory throughout all ages. Amen. A Prayer of St. John ChrysostomAlmighty God, you have given us grace at this time, with one accord to make our common supplications to you; and you have promised through your well-beloved Son that when two or three are gathered together in his Name you will grant their requests: Fulfill now, O Lord, our desires and petitions as may be best for us; granting us in this world knowledge of your truth, and in the age to come life everlasting. Amen. DismissalLet us bless the LordThanks be to God!Alleluia, Alleluia! BenedictionThe grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with us all evermore. Amen

Per a recent Coindesk article https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2023/09/13/surprisingly-few-us-customers-want-their-bittrex-money-back/:Surprisingly Few U.S. Customers Want Their Bittrex Money BackThe U.S. Secret Service kept millions on the exchange, company lawyers told a bankruptcy court – but other creditors have been strangely reluctant to ask for their funds back....Unofficial Computer-Autogenerated Transcript, to Assist the Hearing Impaired etc.00:00:00Mr. Mosco, welcome. It's good to see you.00:00:11Good to see you too, Your Honor.00:00:14Mr. Shepard Carter, I like the tie. Is that black and orange?00:00:19This is black. No, it's not black and orange. It's dark, dark blue and orange, which are the colors of your alma mater.00:00:26The colors of my alma mater are black and orange. Oh, then it's black and orange.00:00:30Your instincts are excellent. You may proceed. Mr. Mosco, good morning again. Good to see you.00:00:35I should have known that since they were the Tigers. They are the Tigers.00:00:37We are the Tigers.00:00:39Good morning, Your Honor. We sent over to chambers a PowerPoint presentation. I can hand up an extra copy if you'd like.00:00:48I have it. Thank you.00:00:49And thanks for the Court's time today. It may seem like a bit of navel gazing going on here because there's not a controversy,00:00:58but we did want to update the Court from our last presentation, from where we are. All the work is being done behind the scenes that you haven't seen.00:01:07I appreciate that, and certainly no apology is necessary. I'm always happy to take a status report.00:01:14As you just mentioned, I really have limited visibility into most of the cases that I have, and often then it just turns into a very ugly surprise when everything blows up all at once.00:01:25So I'm hoping that's not going to happen here, but I certainly do appreciate the guidance that you're offering.00:01:31Correct, Your Honor. Just to level set and for the record, Patty Tomasko, Quinn Emanuel on behalf of the Dutters, and I'm joined by my colleague, Ken Ennis from the Young Conaway Firm.00:01:43We just wanted to go through where we were. The last presentation that we gave you, we had very low engagement from the customers that we had asked to withdraw their crypto.00:01:54As you know, the Court entered an order allowing the customers to begin withdrawing cryptocurrency and fiat currency as of June 15th is when we reopened the platform after the May 8th petition date.00:02:07So we wanted to go through that. I also want to introduce the Court to, we have a couple of the legal staff from Bittrex, Caleb Barker and David Maria.00:02:21David Maria is the General Counsel of Bittrex and Caleb Barker is the Assistant General Counsel of Bittrex.00:02:29Very good. Welcome, gentlemen.00:02:31Morning, Your Honor. If I get something wrong, which I frequently do, they will correct me and I've invited them to be live so that as we go through this, if I get something wrong, they can say, or if the Court has any questions about what we've done and all of the efforts that have gone into this and where we are with the status of the withdrawals.00:02:50I'm not going to bore the Court with the history, but as you know, we filed the bankruptcy petition on May 8th. The Court entered the customer withdrawal order on June 13th. We reopened the platform on June 15th.00:03:06This is consistent with the main goal of the case, which was to set up a process by which Bittrex USA operations could be wound down, along with the sister company Bittrex Malta, which is a Maltese organization that has been roughly out of operation since late 2018.00:03:30So to that end, if you turn to slide six, you can see our Chapter 11 timeline to where we are today.00:03:38Of course, we have a disclosure statement hearing coming up on the 27th.00:03:44Right.00:03:45And this is sort of to get everybody, you know, oriented correctly as we face that.00:03:51So far, I will say we have gotten only informal comments and nothing momentous with respect to the disclosure statement or the plan. We're getting language, incorporating it. All of that's going to plan.00:04:05Turning to slide eight, as I mentioned, we still have to comply as we're doing customer withdrawals with the various regulatory requirements for the payment.00:04:20KYC and KML stuff.00:04:22The main that I call them, Finson and OFAC.00:04:25Finson is concerned with financial crimes.00:04:29They want to have all the KYC information from the customer.00:04:32So are you really who you say you are?00:04:35And they also want to know that, you know, you're not engaging in some kind of money laundering.00:04:42So that's that's really what they're about.00:04:45OFAC is concerned with persons in foreign countries engaging in financial transactions in the U.S.00:04:54So those two regulatory requirements are built into the algorithms of the platform.00:05:00OK.00:05:03So we also wanted them to update, accept the updated terms of service, which also incorporate these regulatory requirements. And so that process has been underway.00:05:17So in conjunction with that, there was, of course, an increase in activity with the help desk.00:05:24The company engaged overtime help desk assistance.00:05:31And that has continued all the way through August 31st when the help desk was shut down, consistent with the August 31st, 2023, part eight.00:05:47So that help desk activity kind of demonstrates how much the company has been working with the customers.00:05:53There's been forty seven thousand plus customer help desk tickets and a lot.00:06:01And then the other the other interesting thing is there's two factor authentication.00:06:06Obviously, this is dealing with financial assets.00:06:08And so that process of, you know, I know in my law firm to get logged on in the morning, sometimes it takes me 15 minutes as I'm going through all of the steps.00:06:19The same thing happens on this platform. So you have two factor authentication.00:06:23You're going to get a text to your phone and an email.00:06:26And those two things combined give you, you know, the best security, high level confidence that you're dealing with the right person.00:06:37Thirty five thousand nine hundred seventy two customers have withdrawn their like kind assets for a total value of one hundred and forty three point seven six million dollars worth of crypto.00:06:48This is in addition to approximately twenty three million that was withdrawn during the April wind down period immediately before the petition was filed.00:07:00So on slide eleven. We've broken these numbers down.00:07:08By the number of customers remaining and the number of customers that have withdrawn.00:07:20So the value of crypto withdrawn is one hundred and forty three point six point seven six million broken down between Bittrex US of ninety five million and Bittrex Malta of forty eight million.00:07:39OK. So one of the things we wanted to explore was why were we getting such low levels of engagement.00:07:46And so in the beginning and so we broke it down between customers with balances over one hundred dollars and customers with balances under one hundred dollars and of the remaining customers.00:07:58Their balances are under one hundred dollars. That's the number of those is seventy seven percent of the remaining customers have balances under one hundred dollars.00:08:09So we have a combination that you've talked about earlier. We have what may be stale accounts with dated or old or ineffective contact information and then basically relatively modest amounts that nobody's necessarily wondering where my money go.00:08:25Correct your honor. OK. And I will tell you anecdotally I've been monitoring things like the Bittrex Twitter Bittrex Reddit.00:08:33You know the various sites where customers are engaging more frankly and the sentiment is you know I don't want to give you all that information to get to get thirty five dollars correct.00:08:49OK. They really are making a calculated decision. They know about it and we're going to go through the notice process in a bit. But we have also prioritized we took a list of the crypto customers that remained and we put them in in rank order of highest to lowest and we engage with them directly.00:09:11Send them an email not just a group email sent them an email and said hey you've got this much you need to get it off. And so that's where we've seen a lot of success. You know understandably.00:09:21OK. So 11 of the top 50 customers by balance have withdrawn substantially all their assets for a total of eight point seven million of withdrawn balances. Five hundred and seventeen of the seven hundred and one users with a balance over one hundred thousand have withdrawn substantially all of their assets.00:09:44And so that you know prioritizing the large dollar dollar customers has really paid off in terms of getting the crypto off. Most of the remaining accounts are inactive and have been inactive for a year or more.00:09:58Fifty one point two percent have been active in the last two years. Only forty one point one percent of the remaining funds are associated with user accounts that have shown no activity since December 31 of 2019.00:10:15The story with them is most of them signed up with inadequate information.00:10:20OK.00:10:24Also we've been actively engaging with the government on a couple of accounts. Some of the accounts were involved in criminal proceedings criminal forfeiture proceedings and we've cooperated with the U.S. Attorney's Office the Justice Department and the SEC to withdraw those amounts that were subject to those criminal forfeiture proceedings.00:10:45The Secret Service had one of our largest accounts of six point two million dollars.00:10:55We worked with that agency for them to successfully withdraw that amount.00:11:00OK. As I said.00:11:03Notice has been extremely robust. We knew it was going to be a large number of potential creditors. We we did not spare.00:11:16We spent every dollar that was responsibly spent to get notice out.00:11:22But this is in addition to the numerous emails that have gone out to customers throughout the history of the company in particular Bittrex Malta because it shut down operations in 2019.00:11:34It's since you know more than a million emails to its users in October of 2019 advising them that it was shutting down its platform.00:11:46So it was known as Bittrex International at that time and it the company decided it no longer wanted to operate Bittrex International.00:11:56So it started shutting down and moving those accounts over to Bittrex Global.00:12:01So additional notices went out as reflected on this slide and they were notified at the end of 2019.00:12:13The Bittrex International was no longer going to support those accounts.00:12:19So that was over the course of a year. A lot of effort went into getting customers off that platform.00:12:24Sure. Now Bittrex US made the decision to shut down its platform in late March of 2020.00:12:35But even before that Bittrex had reached out to customers with inactive balances starting in March of 2022.00:12:48It emailed inactive customers and asked them to update their account information and to otherwise interact with the platform.00:13:00Inactive accounts also got letters in August of 2022 and in 2023 Bittrex mailed postcards to additional inactive customers.00:13:14As I said in March of 2023 Bittrex announced via Twitter that it was shutting down its US operations.00:13:22It sent an email to 1,045,323 users. Reminder emails were sent to 521,000 accounts on various dates in April.00:13:36Between March 31 and April 30 the customer support team resolved 27,000 help desk tickets.00:13:45After the bankruptcy 1.6 million customers got notice of the commencement via email.00:13:59Regular mail went to 44,000 parties in interest including certain customers where we knew their email wasn't good.00:14:09In total via email or regular mail Omni served the notice of the commencement on 1.652 million customers.00:14:21We similarly adopted a robust approach to the bar date notice knowing how important it was in the case of this type.00:14:30Could you remind me what's the bar date? What was the bar date?00:14:32The bar date was August 31. This status report may seem random but it happens to happen after the bar date before the disclosure statement.00:14:43That gets pretty timely.00:14:47That bar date went to even more customers, 1.9 million customers and regular mail to 57,000 parties in interest.00:14:59In total 2 million customers received either email or mail notice of the bar date.00:15:10There was also publication notice in CoinDesk, Wall Street Journal, and the Financial Times of London and the Financial Times of Malta.00:15:21It's not just financial. All of those publication notices have been filed on the docket.00:15:33There have been also social media efforts on Twitter. Twitter messages in June, July, and at the end of July.00:15:43There was a Reddit message on July 26. There was a text message where SMS had been authorized for the customers on August 2.00:15:52Can I ask just out of curiosity, who is doing that messaging via Twitter? Is that coming directly from the company or is that being managed by Omni or Kroll or somebody else?00:16:01It's being done by the company through the company's normal social media accounts.00:16:10As I said, I've been monitoring them as well, looking at customer feedback and seeing if there was anything that looked like a customer had a legitimate break.00:16:21We've been dealing with those throughout.00:16:25In addition, we prioritized balances over $100,000 and sent an additional mail to postcard to 73,000 customers on August 3.00:16:44We detailed the emails that have gone out to the email addresses on the platform and how those were targeted towards different groups with certain balances or locations in an attempt to provide as much notice as possible to the customers.00:17:06In addition to the withdrawals, the debtors have received 3,292 claims, of which 3,240 are customer proofs of claim and 52 are non-customer proofs of claim.00:17:19We, just so the court knows, it is our intention because some of the claims were filed by customers with very large amounts in them. One such claim had $160 million claimed.00:17:36We do plan on starting the proof of claim objection process soon, in the next few weeks.00:17:46We are cordially happy to accommodate scheduling in connection with that.00:17:50Thank you, Your Honor.00:17:51While I usually like to get creditors' votes before I object to their claims in this case, the proof of claim process is going to require company resources to resolve them.00:18:04It is as much a cost saving measure as it is trying to get to the bottom of these claims for feasibility purposes as well. The $150 million claim plus the SEC plus FinCEN, OFAC, that might get on the edge of feasibility.00:18:22We are going to have some of those objections filed.00:18:25Okay. I understand.00:18:28We filed our plan and disclosure statement on August 25th. We have our disclosure statement hearing on September 26th.00:18:39For disclosure purposes, we've only unimpaired priority claims because they're statutorily unimpaired. Everybody else is going to get a chance to vote.00:18:50Whether or not they're impaired will lead for a confirmation objection, but everybody's going to get to vote.00:18:57That leaves our next few deadlines of disclosure statement hearing.00:19:033018 motions on 929. Voting is on October 16.00:19:11Confirmation hearing is October 23rd.00:19:17If the court has any other questions, we wanted to present that to the court showing where we are post-BAR date, pre-discourse statement.00:19:27This is particularly helpful to me. I appreciate getting the heads up.00:19:30Again, as I said, I really don't have much visibility.00:19:33Most of the activity you've described is not necessarily taking place on the docket or in open court.00:19:41At the outset of this case, you all reported that there were many, many holders or potential holders and lots of people with an interest in this exercise.00:19:50You laid out with, I think, specificity what your intentions were in terms of dealing with those folks.00:19:58I think you started and repeated a number of times that the circumstances of this particular crypto case are very different from most of the others that are pending or in the ABI headlines.00:20:08I get it. Let me ask you a question.00:20:11It is just, frankly, out of curiosity.00:20:13I confess that I have not gone back and looked again at the plan and the disclosure statement.00:20:17That hearing is coming up in a couple of weeks, and I will certainly be prepared for that.00:20:22The process that you've just described clearly leads to an assumption that there will be significant assets and the number of parties that have lost interest in this exercise.00:20:36They've only got $25, $50, $100 with you. They don't want to fill out a bunch of paperwork over it. They haven't thought about this since 2018. I get it.00:20:45This would seem to me, then, to be one of these cases that has a fair number of assets at the end of it that need to be disposed of, and I assume that the plan provides for the mechanism for doing that.00:21:03Is there an expectation that there will be funds left over that are not claimed by creditors, and do they then get used in the implementation of the plan, or are they given away, or is geded, or I don't know exactly what happens?00:21:18Sources and uses?00:21:19Yeah.00:21:20So we're going to have claims. We have settlements with FinCEN, OPAC, and the SEC. Those are significant numbers.00:21:27Right.00:21:28We have the costs of administration. We have the claims that are on file, so those will all come out of whatever is left.00:21:37But at this point, one of the reasons why we want to do some claim objections is to make sure we have enough to pay all the claims, and if those are successful, I believe there will be money left over.00:21:51Okay.00:21:52Well, the claims reconciliation process is an exercise that, as you described, is often one that depends upon the judgment and discretion of the debtor about the fights that are, whether it's worth picking these fights, but obviously some of these steps may need to be taken in the context of the confirmation process.00:22:12If you need scheduling with respect to claims administration, again, you can contact Ms. Velo in my chambers, and she'll be happy to give you hearing data if you need it.00:22:20Correct. We've been working with Mr. Enos in terms of coming up with any kind of procedures that we're going to conform with the local rules.00:22:31I will tell you our approach is we're going to take the low-hanging fruit first, which is duplicates.00:22:41Yeah, you separate wheat from chaff.00:22:43Yeah, but in the very large claims that were filed that have no correlation with what is shown on the debtor's books and records.00:22:51Okay.00:22:52Well, I do not have any questions and again I very much appreciate getting the report.00:23:00You know this case has unusual features, but all the crypto cases do but these are at least features that I can understand when they're explained to me.00:23:09Yes, Mr. Sheppard Carter, did you have anything to answer?00:23:14Sure.00:23:17For the record, Richard Park, the United States, trustee, we haven't completed our review of the plan disclosure statement and the procedures, of course, attended there to the deadlines 21st.00:23:27I'm hoping that by Friday, I can get out my comments to counsel.00:23:32I like to do it that way, get the comments out, see if we can work through what we can work through. If we have to file objections, we'll take that up into the course.00:23:42I think after that, we'll just go to plan confirmation and we'll see where we go from there and hopefully we get there in the middle of October.00:23:53Very good.00:23:54Other than that, if nothing else, you're all invited.00:23:56I note that we have a number of parties that are participating virtually. I would ask if anyone else wishes to be heard with respect to the debtor's status report to the court on developments in the Chapter 11 case.00:24:13Hearing no response, again, I very much appreciate getting the status report from the debtor. I had no further questions.00:24:19As noted, if the debtor requires scheduling or other support from the court as you move forward through the disclosure statement and into plan confirmation, all you need to do is call chambers and we'll be happy to accommodate with any scheduling needs that you have.00:24:34But with that, I believe we are adjourned. Thank you, counsel.00:24:37We stand in recess.

32I met Tony Dushane a couple years ago when he enrolled in my class on creative alchemy. It was inspired by the idea that artists are alchemists: explorers of the invisible realms and spiritual healers. And like alchemy, the power of art transforms and transmutes. As I got to know Tony, I learned how his life-story is a beautiful demonstration of art as alchemy. Tony was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, an apocalyptic Christian sect that most people describe as a cult. For the first 20+ years of his life, Tony was a true believer: pained by the urgency of the last days, knocking on doors, and living in an ideological echo chamber. But by the time I met Tony, he was an avid student of magic, astrology and alchemy. And he'd experienced a rare level of success as a writer, publishing a novel based on his life called Confessions of a Teenage Jesus Jerk. His book captured the attention of the actor/director Eric Stoltz, who turned it into a movie. Through the art of writing, Tony's life story was submitted to the alchemical process: heartbreak and tragedy uplifted into comedic and romantic nostalgia. And the film was the final transmutation.I wanted to interview Tony because I was so curious about what it was like growing up as a Jehovah's Witness, why he left that world behind and how he became an artist.In our interview, we discuss…* How his friend's suicide triggered his ideological awakening* How the public library was a sanctuary that “literally saved his life” * Creative writing as a “conversation with the ancients”* Needing therapy after leaving the church* What it was like making a movie with Eric Stoltz * His astrology chart, how the planets reveal his artistic gifts* His current relationship with the Bible and the teachings of Christ* AI and corporate greed as the enemy of art* Why writers should never be afraid to write “shitty first drafts”* And why he teaches a free writing class at the Los Feliz Public library           Support the showSupport the show at https://www.patreon.com/aeolianheart

17Only let each person lead the life[a]that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him.This is my rule inall the churches.18Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised?Let him not seek circumcision.19For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, butkeeping the commandments of God.20Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called.21Were you a bondservant[b]when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.)22For he who was called in the Lord as a bondservant isa freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called isa bondservant of Christ.23You were bought with a price;do not become bondservants of men.24So, brothers,[c]in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God. The Unmarried and the Widowed 25Now concerning[d]the betrothed,[e]I have no command from the Lord, but I give my judgment asone who by the Lord's mercy istrustworthy.26I think that in view of the present[f]distressit is good for a person to remain as he is.27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife.28But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman[g]marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that.29This is what I mean, brothers:the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none,30and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buyas though they had no goods,31and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. Forthe present form of this world is passing away. 32I want you to befree from anxieties.The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord.33But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife,34and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband.35I say this for your own benefit,not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord. 36If anyone thinks that he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed,[h]if his[i]passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes: let them marryit is no sin.37But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well.38So then he who marries his betrotheddoes well, and he who refrains from marriage will do even better. 39A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, onlyin the Lord.40Yetin my judgment she is happier if she remains as she is. And I thinkthat I too have the Spirit of God.

Entrance Hymn #410 Praise, My Soul, The King of HeavenSequence Hymn #533 How Wondrous and Great Thy WorksOffertory Anthem “Simple Song: from Mass (Bernstein) Sarah Izzi Hamel, SoloistCommunion Anthem Hear My Cry, O God (Franck) Sarah Izzi Hamel, Soloist Post-Communion Hymn #371 Thou, Whose Almighty WordTHE COLLECT OF THE DAYAlmighty God, you have given your only Son to be for us a sacrifice for sin, and also an example of godly life: Give us grace to receive thankfully the fruits of his redeeming work, and to follow daily in the blessed steps of his most holy life; through Jesus Christ your Son our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen.FIRST READING Isaiah 56:1,6-8Thus says the LORD: Maintain justice, and do what is right, for soon my salvation will come, andmy deliverance be revealed.And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, to minister to him, to love the name ofthe LORD, and to be his servants, all who keep the sabbath, and do not profane it, and hold fast my covenant--these I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.Thus says the Lord GOD, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, I will gather others to them besides those already gathered.PSALM Psalm 67 Deus misereatur 1 May God be merciful to us and bless us, *show us the light of his countenance and come to us.2 Let your ways be known upon earth, * your saving health among all nations.3 Let the peoples praise you, O God; * let all the peoples praise you.4 Let the nations be glad and sing for joy, * for you judge the peoples with equity and guide all the nations upon earth.5 Let the peoples praise you, O God; * let all the peoples praise you.6 The earth has brought forth her increase; *may God, our own God, give us his blessing.7 May God give us his blessing, *and may all the ends of the earth stand in awe of him.SECOND READING Romans 11:1-2a, 29-32I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant ofAbraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Just as you were once disobedient to God but have now received mercy because of their disobedience, so they have now been disobedient in order that, by the mercy shown to you, they too may now receive mercy. For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.GOSPEL Matthew 15: (10-20), 21-28[Jesus called the crowd to him and said to them, “Listen and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles.” Then the disciples approached and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees took offense when they heard what you said?” He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if one blind person guides another, both will fall into a pit.” But Peter said to him, “Explain this parable to us.” Then he said, “Are you also still without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth enters the stomach, and goes out into the sewer? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this is...

Bible Reading: Ephesians 4:29-32I didn't do anything wrong, Hayley thought as she stared at the TV, wiping away tears. Her dad never yelled at her like that. She had just been singing. He had told her before that he loved to hear her sing."Aren't you going to eat with us?" Hayley's older brother peeked into the room.Hayley shook her head. "I'm not hungry.""What's wrong?" Mikey walked over to her.Hayley's brother was a teenager. He would think she was stupid for crying. "Nothing.""Something is wrong, Hay." Mikey sat down beside her. "Spill.""Fine." Hayley closed her eyes. "Dad yelled at me in the car. He told me to shut up.""What?" Mikey looked shocked."I was just singing. And we're not supposed to say that." Hayley started to cry again.Mikey hugged her. "I'll save you some dinner in case you're hungry later."Hayley rested on the couch with her eyes closed, her dad's words playing over and over in her head, until she heard footsteps come into the room. She peeked her eyes open as her dad knelt on the floor beside the couch."Mikey told me you're upset," Dad said. "I was really stressed in the car. The traffic was bad and I was trying hard to focus." He brushed her hair back from her face. "I should have asked you nicely if you could be quiet instead of yelling at you.""You hurt my feelings," Hayley said."I know, and I'm sorry." Dad sighed. "It's like how you sometimes get angry if your brother makes a lot of noise while you're trying to practice for your recital. Sometimes we let anger take over when we're nervous and say hurtful things. But we don't have to let that happen. We can trust God to help us control our anger instead of letting it control us."Hayley knew her dad was right--she sometimes got angry when she was stressed too. She just hadn't expected that from him. "If God helps us control our anger, why did you let it control you?"Dad gave her a sad smile. "I'm not perfect. God's still working on me. I let anger take control today, but I'm glad I can always depend on God to forgive me and help me do better. I hope you'll forgive me too." -Emily AckerHow About You?Do you sometimes let anger take over? Do you yell or say hurtful things? Even adults struggle with anger sometimes.* But as Christians, we don't have to let anger control us. Through the Holy Spirit's power, we can control what we say and do when we feel angry. Remember He's working to make you more like Jesus, and trust Him to help you control your anger. *If an adult is hurting you because they can't control their anger, tell another adult who can help.Today's Key Verse:Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one who takes a city. (NIV) (Proverbs 16:32)Today's Key Thought:Don't let anger control you

Support Common Prayer Daily @ PatreonVisit our Website for more www.commonprayerdaily.com_______________ Opening Words:“Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.”Psalm 19:14 (ESV) Confession:Let us humbly confess our sins unto Almighty God. Most merciful God, we confess that we have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we humbly repent. For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and forgive us; that we may delight in your will, and walk in your ways, to the glory of your Name. Amen. Almighty God have mercy on you, forgive you all your sins through our Lord Jesus Christ, strengthen you in all goodness, and by the power of the Holy Spirit keep you in eternal life. Amen. The InvitatoryLord, open our lips.And our mouth shall proclaim your praise.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. Venite (Psalm 95:1-7)Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: Come let us adore him. Come, let us sing to the Lord; * let us shout for joy to the Rock of our salvation.Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving * and raise a loud shout to him with psalms.For the Lord is a great God, * and a great King above all gods.In his hand are the caverns of the earth, * and the heights of the hills are his also.The sea is his, for he made it, * and his hands have molded the dry land.Come, let us bow down, and bend the knee, * and kneel before the Lord our Maker.For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture and the sheep of his hand. *Oh, that today you would hearken to his voice! Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: Come let us adore him. The PsalterPsalm 69Salvum me fac1Save me, O God, *for the waters have risen up to my neck.2I am sinking in deep mire, *and there is no firm ground for my feet.3I have come into deep waters, *and the torrent washes over me.4I have grown weary with my crying;my throat is inflamed; *my eyes have failed from looking for my God.5Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head;my lying foes who would destroy me are mighty. *Must I then give back what I never stole?6O God, you know my foolishness, *and my faults are not hidden from you.7Let not those who hope in you be put to shame through me, Lord God of hosts; *let not those who seek you be disgraced because of me, O God of Israel.8Surely, for your sake have I suffered reproach, *and shame has covered my face.9I have become a stranger to my own kindred, *an alien to my mother's children.10Zeal for your house has eaten me up; *the scorn of those who scorn you has fallen upon me.11I humbled myself with fasting, *but that was turned to my reproach.12I put on sack-cloth also, *and became a byword among them.13Those who sit at the gate murmur against me, *and the drunkards make songs about me.14But as for me, this is my prayer to you, *at the time you have set, O Lord:15“In your great mercy, O God, *answer me with your unfailing help.16Save me from the mire; do not let me sink; *let me be rescued from those who hate meand out of the deep waters.17Let not the torrent of waters wash over me,neither let the deep swallow me up; *do not let the Pit shut its mouth upon me.18Answer me, O Lord, for your love is kind; *in your great compassion, turn to me.'19“Hide not your face from your servant; *be swift and answer me, for I am in distress.20Draw near to me and redeem me; *because of my enemies deliver me.21You know my reproach, my shame, and my dishonor; *my adversaries are all in your sight.”22Reproach has broken my heart, and it cannot be healed; *I looked for sympathy, but there was none,for comforters, but I could find no one.23They gave me gall to eat, *and when I was thirsty, they gave me vinegar to drink.31As for me, I am afflicted and in pain; *your help, O God, will lift me up on high.32I will praise the Name of God in song; *I will proclaim his greatness with thanksgiving.33This will please the Lord more than an offering of oxen, *more than bullocks with horns and hoofs.34The afflicted shall see and be glad; *you who seek God, your heart shall live.35For the Lord listens to the needy, *and his prisoners he does not despise.36Let the heavens and the earth praise him, *the seas and all that moves in them;37For God will save Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah; *they shall live there and have it in possession.38The children of his servants will inherit it, *and those who love his Name will dwell therein. Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: *as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. Lessons2 Samuel 5:1-12English Standard Version5 Then all the tribes of Israel came to David at Hebron and said, “Behold, we are your bone and flesh. 2 In times past, when Saul was king over us, it was you who led out and brought in Israel. And the Lord said to you, ‘You shall be shepherd of my people Israel, and you shall be prince over Israel.'” 3 So all the elders of Israel came to the king at Hebron, and King David made a covenant with them at Hebron before the Lord, and they anointed David king over Israel. 4 David was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty years. 5 At Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and at Jerusalem he reigned over all Israel and Judah thirty-three years.6 And the king and his men went to Jerusalem against the Jebusites, the inhabitants of the land, who said to David, “You will not come in here, but the blind and the lame will ward you off”—thinking, “David cannot come in here.” 7 Nevertheless, David took the stronghold of Zion, that is, the city of David. 8 And David said on that day, “Whoever would strike the Jebusites, let him get up the water shaft to attack ‘the lame and the blind,' who are hated by David's soul.” Therefore it is said, “The blind and the lame shall not come into the house.” 9 And David lived in the stronghold and called it the city of David. And David built the city all around from the Millo inward. 10 And David became greater and greater, for the Lord, the God of hosts, was with him.11 And Hiram king of Tyre sent messengers to David, and cedar trees, also carpenters and masons who built David a house. 12 And David knew that the Lord had established him king over Israel, and that he had exalted his kingdom for the sake of his people Israel. Acts 17:1-15English Standard Version17 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women. 5 But the Jews were jealous, and taking some wicked men of the rabble, they formed a mob, set the city in an uproar, and attacked the house of Jason, seeking to bring them out to the crowd. 6 And when they could not find them, they dragged Jason and some of the brothers before the city authorities, shouting, “These men who have turned the world upside down have come here also, 7 and Jason has received them, and they are all acting against the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, Jesus.” 8 And the people and the city authorities were disturbed when they heard these things. 9 And when they had taken money as security from Jason and the rest, they let them go.10 The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. 12 Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. 13 But when the Jews from Thessalonica learned that the word of God was proclaimed by Paul at Berea also, they came there too, agitating and stirring up the crowds. 14 Then the brothers immediately sent Paul off on his way to the sea, but Silas and Timothy remained there. 15 Those who conducted Paul brought him as far as Athens, and after receiving a command for Silas and Timothy to come to him as soon as possible, they departed. The Word of the Lord.Thanks Be To God. Benedictus (The Song of Zechariah)Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel; * he has come to his people and set them free.He has raised up for us a mighty savior, * born of the house of his servant David.Through his holy prophets he promised of old, that he would save us from our enemies, * from the hands of all who hate us. He promised to show mercy to our fathers * and to remember his holy covenant. This was the oath he swore to our father Abraham, * to set us free from the hands of our enemies, Free to worship him without fear, * holy and righteous in his sight all the days of our life.You, my child, shall be called the prophet of the Most High, * for you will go before the Lord to prepare his way, To give his people knowledge of salvation * by the forgiveness of their sins.In the tender compassion of our God * the dawn from on high shall break upon us, To shine on those who dwell in darkness and the shadow of death, * and to guide our feet into the way of peace.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. The Apostles CreedI believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. The PrayersLord, have mercy.Christ, have mercyLord, have mercyOur Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever and ever. Amen. The SuffragesO Lord, show your mercy upon us;And grant us your salvation.O Lord, guide those who govern usAnd lead us in the way of justice and truth.Clothe your ministers with righteousnessAnd let your people sing with joy.O Lord, save your peopleAnd bless your inheritance.Give peace in our time, O LordAnd defend us by your mighty power.Let not the needy, O Lord, be forgottenNor the hope of the poor be taken away.Create in us clean hearts, O GodAnd take not your Holy Spirit from us. Take a moment of silence at this time to reflect and pray for others. The CollectsProper 12O God, the protector of all who trust in you, without whom nothing is strong, nothing is holy: Increase and multiply upon us your mercy; that, with you as our ruler and guide, we may so pass through things temporal, that we lose not the things eternal; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen. Daily Collects:A Collect for PeaceO God, the author of peace and lover of concord, to know you is eternal life and to serve you is perfect freedom: Defend us, your humble servants, in all assaults of our enemies; that we, surely trusting in your defense, may not fear the power of any adversaries, through the might of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.A Collect for GraceO Lord, our heavenly Father, almighty and everlasting God, you have brought us safely to the beginning of this day: Defend us by your mighty power, that we may not fall into sin nor run into any danger; and that, guided by your Spirit, we may do what is righteous in your sight; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.Collect of Saint BasilO Christ God, Who art worshipped and glorified at every place and time; Who art long-suffering, most merciful and compassionate; Who lovest the righteous and art merciful to sinners; Who callest all to salvation with the promise of good things to come: receive, Lord, the prayers we now offer, and direct our lives in the way of Thy commandments. Sanctify our souls, cleanse our bodies, correct our thoughts, purify our minds and deliver us from all affliction, evil and illness. Surround us with Thy holy angels, that guarded and instructed by their forces, we may reach unity of faith and the understanding of Thine unapproachable glory: for blessed art Thou unto ages of ages. Amen. General ThanksgivingAlmighty God, Father of all mercies, we your unworthy servants give you humble thanks for all your goodness and loving-kindness to us and to all whom you have made. We bless you for our creation, preservation, and all the blessings of this life; but above all for your immeasurable love in the redemption of the world by our Lord Jesus Christ; for the means of grace, and for the hope of glory. And, we pray, give us such an awareness of your mercies, that with truly thankful hearts we may show forth your praise, not only with our lips, but in our lives, by giving up our selves to your service, and by walking before you in holiness and righteousness all our days; Through Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom, with you and the Holy Spirit, be honor and glory throughout all ages. Amen. A Prayer of St. John ChrysostomAlmighty God, you have given us grace at this time, with one accord to make our common supplications to you; and you have promised through your well-beloved Son that when two or three are gathered together in his Name you will grant their requests: Fulfill now, O Lord, our desires and petitions as may be best for us; granting us in this world knowledge of your truth, and in the age to come life everlasting. Amen. DismissalLet us bless the LordThanks be to God!Alleluia, Alleluia! BenedictionThe grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with us all evermore. Amen

Support Common Prayer Daily @ PatreonVisit our Website for more www.commonprayerdaily.com_______________Friday - Proper 5Opening Words:“Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.”Psalm 19:14 (ESV) Confession:Let us humbly confess our sins unto Almighty God. Most merciful God, we confess that we have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we humbly repent. For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and forgive us; that we may delight in your will, and walk in your ways, to the glory of your Name. Amen. Almighty God have mercy on you, forgive you all your sins through our Lord Jesus Christ, strengthen you in all goodness, and by the power of the Holy Spirit keep you in eternal life. Amen. The InvitatoryLord, open our lips.And our mouth shall proclaim your praise.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. Venite (Psalm 95:1-7)Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: Come let us adore him. Come, let us sing to the Lord; * let us shout for joy to the Rock of our salvation.Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving * and raise a loud shout to him with psalms.For the Lord is a great God, * and a great King above all gods.In his hand are the caverns of the earth, * and the heights of the hills are his also.The sea is his, for he made it, * and his hands have molded the dry land.Come, let us bow down, and bend the knee, * and kneel before the Lord our Maker.For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture and the sheep of his hand. *Oh, that today you would hearken to his voice! Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: Come let us adore him. The PsalterPsalm 69Salvum me fac1Save me, O God, *for the waters have risen up to my neck.2I am sinking in deep mire, *and there is no firm ground for my feet.3I have come into deep waters, *and the torrent washes over me.4I have grown weary with my crying;my throat is inflamed; *my eyes have failed from looking for my God.5Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head;my lying foes who would destroy me are mighty. *Must I then give back what I never stole?6O God, you know my foolishness, *and my faults are not hidden from you.7Let not those who hope in you be put to shame through me, Lord God of hosts; *let not those who seek you be disgraced because of me, O God of Israel.8Surely, for your sake have I suffered reproach, *and shame has covered my face.9I have become a stranger to my own kindred, *an alien to my mother's children.10Zeal for your house has eaten me up; *the scorn of those who scorn you has fallen upon me.11I humbled myself with fasting, *but that was turned to my reproach.12I put on sack-cloth also, *and became a byword among them.13Those who sit at the gate murmur against me, *and the drunkards make songs about me.14But as for me, this is my prayer to you, *at the time you have set, O Lord:15“In your great mercy, O God, *answer me with your unfailing help.16Save me from the mire; do not let me sink; *let me be rescued from those who hate meand out of the deep waters.17Let not the torrent of waters wash over me,neither let the deep swallow me up; *do not let the Pit shut its mouth upon me.18Answer me, O Lord, for your love is kind; *in your great compassion, turn to me.'19“Hide not your face from your servant; *be swift and answer me, for I am in distress.20Draw near to me and redeem me; *because of my enemies deliver me.21You know my reproach, my shame, and my dishonor; *my adversaries are all in your sight.”22Reproach has broken my heart, and it cannot be healed; *I looked for sympathy, but there was none,for comforters, but I could find no one.23They gave me gall to eat, *and when I was thirsty, they gave me vinegar to drink.31As for me, I am afflicted and in pain; *your help, O God, will lift me up on high.32I will praise the Name of God in song; *I will proclaim his greatness with thanksgiving.33This will please the Lord more than an offering of oxen, *more than bullocks with horns and hoofs.34The afflicted shall see and be glad; *you who seek God, your heart shall live.35For the Lord listens to the needy, *and his prisoners he does not despise.36Let the heavens and the earth praise him, *the seas and all that moves in them;37For God will save Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah; *they shall live there and have it in possession.38The children of his servants will inherit it, *and those who love his Name will dwell therein. Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: *as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. LessonsSirach 45:6-16New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition6 He exalted Aaron, a holy man like Moses,    who was his brother, of the tribe of Levi.7 He made an everlasting covenant with him    and gave him the priesthood of the people.He blessed him with stateliness    and put a glorious robe on him.8 He clothed him in perfect splendor    and strengthened him with the apparel of authority,    the linen undergarments, the long robe, and the ephod.9 And he encircled him with pomegranates,    with many golden bells all around,to send forth a sound as he walked,    to make their ringing heard in the temple    as a reminder to his people;10 with the sacred vestment, of gold and violet    and purple, the work of an embroiderer;with the oracle of judgment, the manifestations of truth;11     with twisted crimson, the work of an artisan;with precious stones engraved like seals,    in a setting of gold, the work of a jeweler,to commemorate in engraved letters    each of the tribes of Israel;12 with a gold crown upon his turban,    inscribed like a holy seal,majestic and glorious, a work of power,    a delight to the eyes, richly adorned.13 Before him such beautiful things did not exist.    No outsider ever put them on,but only his sons    and his descendants in perpetuity.14 His sacrifices shall be wholly burned    twice every day continually.15 Moses ordained him    and anointed him with holy oil;it was an everlasting covenant for him    and for his descendants as long as the heavens endure,to minister to the Lord and serve as priest    and bless his people in his name.16 He chose him out of all the living    to offer sacrifice to the Lord,incense and a pleasing odor as a memorial,    to make atonement for the people. 2 Corinthians 12:11-21English Standard Version11 I have been a fool! You forced me to it, for I ought to have been commended by you. For I was not at all inferior to these super-apostles, even though I am nothing. 12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works. 13 For in what were you less favored than the rest of the churches, except that I myself did not burden you? Forgive me this wrong!14 Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you. For children are not obligated to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. 15 I will most gladly spend and be spent for your souls. If I love you more, am I to be loved less? 16 But granting that I myself did not burden you, I was crafty, you say, and got the better of you by deceit. 17 Did I take advantage of you through any of those whom I sent to you? 18 I urged Titus to go, and sent the brother with him. Did Titus take advantage of you? Did we not act in the same spirit? Did we not take the same steps?19 Have you been thinking all along that we have been defending ourselves to you? It is in the sight of God that we have been speaking in Christ, and all for your upbuilding, beloved. 20 For I fear that perhaps when I come I may find you not as I wish, and that you may find me not as you wish—that perhaps there may be quarreling, jealousy, anger, hostility, slander, gossip, conceit, and disorder. 21 I fear that when I come again my God may humble me before you, and I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and sensuality that they have practiced. The Word of the Lord.Thanks Be To God. Benedictus (The Song of Zechariah)Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel; * he has come to his people and set them free.He has raised up for us a mighty savior, * born of the house of his servant David.Through his holy prophets he promised of old, that he would save us from our enemies, * from the hands of all who hate us. He promised to show mercy to our fathers * and to remember his holy covenant. This was the oath he swore to our father Abraham, * to set us free from the hands of our enemies, Free to worship him without fear, * holy and righteous in his sight all the days of our life.You, my child, shall be called the prophet of the Most High, * for you will go before the Lord to prepare his way, To give his people knowledge of salvation * by the forgiveness of their sins.In the tender compassion of our God * the dawn from on high shall break upon us, To shine on those who dwell in darkness and the shadow of death, * and to guide our feet into the way of peace.Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit:as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen. The Apostles CreedI believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. The PrayersLord, have mercy.Christ, have mercyLord, have mercyOur Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever and ever. Amen. The SuffragesO Lord, show your mercy upon us;And grant us your salvation.O Lord, guide those who govern usAnd lead us in the way of justice and truth.Clothe your ministers with righteousnessAnd let your people sing with joy.O Lord, save your peopleAnd bless your inheritance.Give peace in our time, O LordAnd defend us by your mighty power.Let not the needy, O Lord, be forgottenNor the hope of the poor be taken away.Create in us clean hearts, O GodAnd take not your Holy Spirit from us. Take a moment of silence at this time to reflect and pray for others. The CollectsProper 5O God, from whom all good proceeds: Grant that by your inspiration we may think those things that are right, and by your merciful guiding may do them; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen. Daily Collects:A Collect for PeaceO God, the author of peace and lover of concord, to know you is eternal life and to serve you is perfect freedom: Defend us, your humble servants, in all assaults of our enemies; that we, surely trusting in your defense, may not fear the power of any adversaries, through the might of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.A Collect for GraceO Lord, our heavenly Father, almighty and everlasting God, you have brought us safely to the beginning of this day: Defend us by your mighty power, that we may not fall into sin nor run into any danger; and that, guided by your Spirit, we may do what is righteous in your sight; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.Collect of Saint BasilO Christ God, Who art worshipped and glorified at every place and time; Who art long-suffering, most merciful and compassionate; Who lovest the righteous and art merciful to sinners; Who callest all to salvation with the promise of good things to come: receive, Lord, the prayers we now offer, and direct our lives in the way of Thy commandments. Sanctify our souls, cleanse our bodies, correct our thoughts, purify our minds and deliver us from all affliction, evil and illness. Surround us with Thy holy angels, that guarded and instructed by their forces, we may reach unity of faith and the understanding of Thine unapproachable glory: for blessed art Thou unto ages of ages. Amen. General ThanksgivingAlmighty God, Father of all mercies, we your unworthy servants give you humble thanks for all your goodness and loving-kindness to us and to all whom you have made. We bless you for our creation, preservation, and all the blessings of this life; but above all for your immeasurable love in the redemption of the world by our Lord Jesus Christ; for the means of grace, and for the hope of glory. And, we pray, give us such an awareness of your mercies, that with truly thankful hearts we may show forth your praise, not only with our lips, but in our lives, by giving up our selves to your service, and by walking before you in holiness and righteousness all our days; Through Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom, with you and the Holy Spirit, be honor and glory throughout all ages. Amen. A Prayer of St. John ChrysostomAlmighty God, you have given us grace at this time, with one accord to make our common supplications to you; and you have promised through your well-beloved Son that when two or three are gathered together in his Name you will grant their requests: Fulfill now, O Lord, our desires and petitions as may be best for us; granting us in this world knowledge of your truth, and in the age to come life everlasting. Amen. DismissalLet us bless the LordThanks be to God!Alleluia, Alleluia! BenedictionThe grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with us all evermore. Amen

For 4 hours, I tried to come up reasons for why AI might not kill us all, and Eliezer Yudkowsky explained why I was wrong.We also discuss his call to halt AI, why LLMs make alignment harder, what it would take to save humanity, his millions of words of sci-fi, and much more.If you want to get to the crux of the conversation, fast forward to 2:35:00 through 3:43:54. Here we go through and debate the main reasons I still think doom is unlikely.Watch on YouTube. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Read the full transcript here. Follow me on Twitter for updates on future episodes.As always, the most helpful thing you can do is just to share the podcast - send it to friends, group chats, Twitter, Reddit, forums, and wherever else men and women of fine taste congregate.If you have the means and have enjoyed my podcast, I would appreciate your support via a paid subscriptions on Substack.Timestamps(0:00:00) - TIME article(0:09:06) - Are humans aligned?(0:37:35) - Large language models(1:07:15) - Can AIs help with alignment?(1:30:17) - Society's response to AI(1:44:42) - Predictions (or lack thereof)(1:56:55) - Being Eliezer(2:13:06) - Othogonality(2:35:00) - Could alignment be easier than we think?(3:02:15) - What will AIs want?(3:43:54) - Writing fiction & whether rationality helps you winTranscriptTIME articleDwarkesh Patel 0:00:51Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Eliezer Yudkowsky. Eliezer, thank you so much for coming out to the Lunar Society.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:01:00You're welcome.Dwarkesh Patel 0:01:01Yesterday, when we're recording this, you had an article in Time calling for a moratorium on further AI training runs. My first question is — It's probably not likely that governments are going to adopt some sort of treaty that restricts AI right now. So what was the goal with writing it?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:01:25I thought that this was something very unlikely for governments to adopt and then all of my friends kept on telling me — “No, no, actually, if you talk to anyone outside of the tech industry, they think maybe we shouldn't do that.” And I was like — All right, then. I assumed that this concept had no popular support. Maybe I assumed incorrectly. It seems foolish and to lack dignity to not even try to say what ought to be done. There wasn't a galaxy-brained purpose behind it. I think that over the last 22 years or so, we've seen a great lack of galaxy brained ideas playing out successfully.Dwarkesh Patel 0:02:05Has anybody in the government reached out to you, not necessarily after the article but just in general, in a way that makes you think that they have the broad contours of the problem correct?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:02:15No. I'm going on reports that normal people are more willing than the people I've been previously talking to, to entertain calls that this is a bad idea and maybe you should just not do that.Dwarkesh Patel 0:02:30That's surprising to hear, because I would have assumed that the people in Silicon Valley who are weirdos would be more likely to find this sort of message. They could kind of rocket the whole idea that AI will make nanomachines that take over. It's surprising to hear that normal people got the message first.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:02:47Well, I hesitate to use the term midwit but maybe this was all just a midwit thing.Dwarkesh Patel 0:02:54All right. So my concern with either the 6 month moratorium or forever moratorium until we solve alignment is that at this point, it could make it seem to people like we're crying wolf. And it would be like crying wolf because these systems aren't yet at a point at which they're dangerous. Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:03:13And nobody is saying they are. I'm not saying they are. The open letter signatories aren't saying they are.Dwarkesh Patel 0:03:20So if there is a point at which we can get the public momentum to do some sort of stop, wouldn't it be useful to exercise it when we get a GPT-6? And who knows what it's capable of. Why do it now?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:03:32Because allegedly, and we will see, people right now are able to appreciate that things are storming ahead a bit faster than the ability to ensure any sort of good outcome for them. And you could be like — “Ah, yes. We will play the galaxy-brained clever political move of trying to time when the popular support will be there.” But again, I heard rumors that people were actually completely open to the concept of  let's stop. So again, I'm just trying to say it. And it's not clear to me what happens if we wait for GPT-5 to say it. I don't actually know what GPT-5 is going to be like. It has been very hard to call the rate at which these systems acquire capability as they are trained to larger and larger sizes and more and more tokens. GPT-4 is a bit beyond in some ways where I thought this paradigm was going to scale. So I don't actually know what happens if GPT-5 is built. And even if GPT-5 doesn't end the world, which I agree is like more than 50% of where my probability mass lies, maybe that's enough time for GPT-4.5 to get ensconced everywhere and in everything, and for it actually to be harder to call a stop, both politically and technically. There's also the point that training algorithms keep improving. If we put a hard limit on the total computes and training runs right now, these systems would still get more capable over time as the algorithms improved and got more efficient. More oomph per floating point operation, and things would still improve, but slower. And if you start that process off at the GPT-5 level, where I don't actually know how capable that is exactly, you may have a bunch less lifeline left before you get into dangerous territory.Dwarkesh Patel 0:05:46The concern is then that — there's millions of GPUs out there in the world. The actors who would be willing to cooperate or who could even be identified in order to get the government to make them cooperate, would potentially be the ones that are most on the message. And so what you're left with is a system where they stagnate for six months or a year or however long this lasts. And then what is the game plan? Is there some plan by which if we wait a few years, then alignment will be solved? Do we have some sort of timeline like that?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:06:18Alignment will not be solved in a few years. I would hope for something along the lines of human intelligence enhancement works. I do not think they're going to have the timeline for genetically engineered humans to work but maybe? This is why I mentioned in the Time letter that if I had infinite capability to dictate the laws that there would be a carve-out on biology, AI that is just for biology and not trained on text from the internet. Human intelligence enhancement, make people smarter. Making people smarter has a chance of going right in a way that making an extremely smart AI does not have a realistic chance of going right at this point. If we were on a sane planet, what the sane planet does at this point is shut it all down and work on human intelligence enhancement. I don't think we're going to live in that sane world. I think we are all going to die. But having heard that people are more open to this outside of California, it makes sense to me to just try saying out loud what it is that you do on a saner planet and not just assume that people are not going to do that.Dwarkesh Patel 0:07:30In what percentage of the worlds where humanity survives is there human enhancement? Like even if there's 1% chance humanity survives, is that entire branch dominated by the worlds where there's some sort of human intelligence enhancement?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:07:39I think we're just mainly in the territory of Hail Mary passes at this point, and human intelligence enhancement is one Hail Mary pass. Maybe you can put people in MRIs and train them using neurofeedback to be a little saner, to not rationalize so much. Maybe you can figure out how to have something light up every time somebody is working backwards from what they want to be true to what they take as their premises. Maybe you can just fire off little lights and teach people not to do that so much. Maybe the GPT-4 level systems can be RLHF'd (reinforcement learning from human feedback) into being consistently smart, nice and charitable in conversation and just unleash a billion of them on Twitter and just have them spread sanity everywhere. I do worry that this is not going to be the most profitable use of the technology, but you're asking me to list out Hail Mary passes and that's what I'm doing. Maybe you can actually figure out how to take a brain, slice it, scan it, simulate it, run uploads and upgrade the uploads, or run the uploads faster. These are also quite dangerous things, but they do not have the utter lethality of artificial intelligence.Are humans aligned?Dwarkesh Patel 0:09:06All right, that's actually a great jumping point into the next topic I want to talk to you about. Orthogonality. And here's my first question — Speaking of human enhancement, suppose you bred human beings to be friendly and cooperative, but also more intelligent. I claim that over many generations you would just have really smart humans who are also really friendly and cooperative. Would you disagree with that analogy? I'm sure you're going to disagree with this analogy, but I just want to understand why?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:09:31The main thing is that you're starting from minds that are already very, very similar to yours. You're starting from minds, many of which already exhibit the characteristics that you want. There are already many people in the world, I hope, who are nice in the way that you want them to be nice. Of course, it depends on how nice you want exactly. I think that if you actually go start trying to run a project of selectively encouraging some marriages between particular people and encouraging them to have children, you will rapidly find, as one does in any such process that when you select on the stuff you want, it turns out there's a bunch of stuff correlated with it and that you're not changing just one thing. If you try to make people who are inhumanly nice, who are nicer than anyone has ever been before, you're going outside the space that human psychology has previously evolved and adapted to deal with, and weird stuff will happen to those people. None of this is very analogous to AI. I'm just pointing out something along the lines of — well, taking your analogy at face value, what would happen exactly? It's the sort of thing where you could maybe do it, but there's all kinds of pitfalls that you'd probably find out about if you cracked open a textbook on animal breeding.Dwarkesh Patel 0:11:13The thing you mentioned initially, which is that we are starting off with basic human psychology, that we are fine tuning with breeding. Luckily, the current paradigm of AI is  — you have these models that are trained on human text and I would assume that this would give you a starting point of something like human psychology.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:11:31Why do you assume that?Dwarkesh Patel 0:11:33Because they're trained on human text.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:11:34And what does that do?Dwarkesh Patel 0:11:36Whatever thoughts and emotions that lead to the production of human text need to be simulated in the AI in order to produce those results.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:11:44I see. So if you take an actor and tell them to play a character, they just become that person. You can tell that because you see somebody on screen playing Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and that's probably just actually Buffy in there. That's who that is.Dwarkesh Patel 0:12:05I think a better analogy is if you have a child and you tell him — Hey, be this way. They're more likely to just be that way instead of putting on an act for 20 years or something.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:12:18It depends on what you're telling them to be exactly. Dwarkesh Patel 0:12:20You're telling them to be nice.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:12:22Yeah, but that's not what you're telling them to do. You're telling them to play the part of an alien, something with a completely inhuman psychology as extrapolated by science fiction authors, and in many cases done by computers because humans can't quite think that way. And your child eventually manages to learn to act that way. What exactly is going on in there now? Are they just the alien or did they pick up the rhythm of what you're asking them to imitate and be like — “Ah yes, I see who I'm supposed to pretend to be.” Are they actually a person or are they pretending? That's true even if you're not asking them to be an alien. My parents tried to raise me Orthodox Jewish and that did not take at all. I learned to pretend. I learned to comply. I hated every minute of it. Okay, not literally every minute of it. I should avoid saying untrue things. I hated most minutes of it. Because they were trying to show me a way to be that was alien to my own psychology and the religion that I actually picked up was from the science fiction books instead, as it were. I'm using religion very metaphorically here, more like ethos, you might say. I was raised with science fiction books I was reading from my parents library and Orthodox Judaism. The ethos of the science fiction books rang truer in my soul and so that took in, the Orthodox Judaism didn't. But the Orthodox Judaism was what I had to imitate, was what I had to pretend to be, was the answers I had to give whether I believed them or not. Because otherwise you get punished.Dwarkesh Patel 0:14:01But on that point itself, the rates of apostasy are probably below 50% in any religion. Some people do leave but often they just become the thing they're imitating as a child.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:14:12Yes, because the religions are selected to not have that many apostates. If aliens came in and introduced their religion, you'd get a lot more apostates.Dwarkesh Patel 0:14:19Right. But I think we're probably in a more virtuous situation with ML because these systems are regularized through stochastic gradient descent. So the system that is pretending to be something where there's multiple layers of interpretation is going to be more complex than the one that is just being the thing. And over time, the system that is just being the thing will be optimized, right? It'll just be simpler.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:14:42This seems like an ordinate cope. For one thing, you're not training it to be any one particular person. You're training it to switch masks to anyone on the Internet as soon as they figure out who that person on the internet is. If I put the internet in front of you and I was like — learn to predict the next word over and over. You do not just turn into a random human because the random human is not what's best at predicting the next word of everyone who's ever been on the internet. You learn to very rapidly pick up on the cues of what sort of person is talking, what will they say next? You memorize so many facts just because they're helpful in predicting the next word. You learn all kinds of patterns, you learn all the languages. You learn to switch rapidly from being one kind of person or another as the conversation that you are predicting changes who is speaking. This is not a human we're describing. You are not training a human there.Dwarkesh Patel 0:15:43Would you at least say that we are living in a better situation than one in which we have some sort of black box where you have a machiavellian fittest survive simulation that produces AI? This situation is at least more likely to produce alignment than one in which something that is completely untouched by human psychology would produce?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:16:06More likely? Yes. Maybe you're an order of magnitude likelier. 0% instead of 0%. Getting stuff to be more likely does not help you if the baseline is nearly zero. The whole training set up there is producing an actress, a predictor. It's not actually being put into the kind of ancestral situation that evolved humans, nor the kind of modern situation that raises humans. Though to be clear, raising it like a human wouldn't help, But you're giving it a very alien problem that is not what humans solve and it is solving that problem not in the way a human would.Dwarkesh Patel 0:16:44Okay, so how about this. I can see that I certainly don't know for sure what is going on in these systems. In fact, obviously nobody does. But that also goes through you. Could it not just be that reinforcement learning works and all these other things we're trying somehow work and actually just being an actor produces some sort of benign outcome where there isn't that level of simulation and conniving?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:17:15I think it predictably breaks down as you try to make the system smarter, as you try to derive sufficiently useful work from it. And in particular, the sort of work where some other AI doesn't just kill you off six months later. Yeah, I think the present system is not smart enough to have a deep conniving actress thinking long strings of coherent thoughts about how to predict the next word. But as the mask that it wears, as the people it is pretending to be get smarter and smarter, I think that at some point the thing in there that is predicting how humans plan, predicting how humans talk, predicting how humans think, and needing to be at least as smart as the human it is predicting in order to do that, I suspect at some point there is a new coherence born within the system and something strange starts happening. I think that if you have something that can accurately predict Eliezer Yudkowsky, to use a particular example I know quite well, you've got to be able to do the kind of thinking where you are reflecting on yourself and that in order to simulate Eliezer Yudkowsky reflecting on himself, you need to be able to do that kind of thinking. This is not airtight logic but I expect there to be a discount factor. If you ask me to play a part of somebody who's quite unlike me, I think there's some amount of penalty that the character I'm playing gets to his intelligence because I'm secretly back there simulating him. That's even if we're quite similar and the stranger they are, the more unfamiliar the situation, the less the person I'm playing is as smart as I am and the more they are dumber than I am. So similarly, I think that if you get an AI that's very, very good at predicting what Eliezer says, I think that there's a quite alien mind doing that, and it actually has to be to some degree smarter than me in order to play the role of something that thinks differently from how it does very, very accurately. And I reflect on myself, I think about how my thoughts are not good enough by my own standards and how I want to rearrange my own thought processes. I look at the world and see it going the way I did not want it to go, and asking myself how could I change this world? I look around at other humans and I model them, and sometimes I try to persuade them of things. These are all capabilities that the system would then be somewhere in there. And I just don't trust the blind hope that all of that capability is pointed entirely at pretending to be Eliezer and only exists insofar as it's the mirror and isomorph of Eliezer. That all the prediction is by being something exactly like me and not thinking about me while not being me.Dwarkesh Patel 0:20:55I certainly don't want to claim that it is guaranteed that there isn't something super alien and something against our aims happening within the shoggoth. But you made an earlier claim which seemed much stronger than the idea that you don't want blind hope, which is that we're going from 0% probability to an order of magnitude greater at 0% probability. There's a difference between saying that we should be wary and that there's no hope, right? I could imagine so many things that could be happening in the shoggoth's brain, especially in our level of confusion and mysticism over what is happening. One example is, let's say that it kind of just becomes the average of all human psychology and motives.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:21:41But it's not the average. It is able to be every one of those people. That's very different from being the average. It's very different from being an average chess player versus being able to predict every chess player in the database. These are very different things.Dwarkesh Patel 0:21:56Yeah, no, I meant in terms of motives that it is the average where it can simulate any given human. I'm not saying that's the most likely one, I'm just saying it's one possibility.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:22:08What.. Why? It just seems 0% probable to me. Like the motive is going to be like some weird funhouse mirror thing of — I want to predict very accurately.Dwarkesh Patel 0:22:19Right. Why then are we so sure that whatever drives that come about because of this motive are going to be incompatible with the survival and flourishing with humanity?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:22:30Most drives when you take a loss function and splinter it into things correlated with it and then amp up intelligence until some kind of strange coherence is born within the thing and then ask it how it would want to self modify or what kind of successor system it would build. Things that alien ultimately end up wanting the universe to be some particular way such that humans are not a solution to the question of how to make the universe most that way. The thing that very strongly wants to predict text, even if you got that goal into the system exactly which is not what would happen, The universe with the most predictable text is not a universe that has humans in it. Dwarkesh Patel 0:23:19Okay. I'm not saying this is the most likely outcome. Here's an example of one of many ways in which humans stay around despite this motive. Let's say that in order to predict human output really well, it needs humans around to give it the raw data from which to improve its predictions or something like that. This is not something I think individually is likely…Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:23:40If the humans are no longer around, you no longer need to predict them. Right, so you don't need the data required to predict themDwarkesh Patel 0:23:46Because you are starting off with that motivation you want to just maximize along that loss function or have that drive that came about because of the loss function.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:23:57I'm confused. So look, you can always develop arbitrary fanciful scenarios in which the AI has some contrived motive that it can only possibly satisfy by keeping humans alive in good health and comfort and turning all the nearby galaxies into happy, cheerful places full of high functioning galactic civilizations. But as soon as your sentence has more than like five words in it, its probability has dropped to basically zero because of all the extra details you're padding in.Dwarkesh Patel 0:24:31Maybe let's return to this. Another train of thought I want to follow is — I claim that humans have not become orthogonal to the sort of evolutionary process that produced them.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:24:46Great. I claim humans are increasingly orthogonal and the further they go out of distribution and the smarter they get, the more orthogonal they get to inclusive genetic fitness, the sole loss function on which humans were optimized.Dwarkesh Patel 0:25:03Most humans still want kids and have kids and care for their kin. Certainly there's some angle between how humans operate today. Evolution would prefer us to use less condoms and more sperm banks. But there's like 10 billion of us and there's going to be more in the future. We haven't divorced that far from what our alleles would want.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:25:28It's a question of how far out of distribution are you? And the smarter you are, the more out of distribution you get. Because as you get smarter, you get new options that are further from the options that you are faced with in the ancestral environment that you were optimized over. Sure, a lot of people want kids, not inclusive genetic fitness, but kids. They want kids similar to them maybe, but they don't want the kids to have their DNA or their alleles or their genes. So suppose I go up to somebody and credibly say, we will assume away the ridiculousness of this offer for the moment, your kids could be a bit smarter and much healthier if you'll just let me replace their DNA with this alternate storage method that will age more slowly. They'll be healthier, they won't have to worry about DNA damage, they won't have to worry about the methylation on the DNA flipping and the cells de-differentiating as they get older. We've got this stuff that replaces DNA and your kid will still be similar to you, it'll be a bit smarter and they'll be so much healthier and even a bit more cheerful. You just have to replace all the DNA with a stronger substrate and rewrite all the information on it. You know, the old school transhumanist offer really. And I think that a lot of the people who want kids would go for this new offer that just offers them so much more of what it is they want from kids than copying the DNA, than inclusive genetic fitness.Dwarkesh Patel 0:27:16In some sense, I don't even think that would dispute my claim because if you think from a gene's point of view, it just wants to be replicated. If it's replicated in another substrate that's still okay.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:27:25No, we're not saving the information. We're doing a total rewrite to the DNA.Dwarkesh Patel 0:27:30I actually claim that most humans would not accept that offer.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:27:33Yeah, because it would sound weird. But I think the smarter they are, the more likely they are to go for it if it's credible. I mean, if you assume away the credibility issue and the weirdness issue. Like all their friends are doing it.Dwarkesh Patel 0:27:52Yeah. Even if the smarter they are the more likely they're to do it, most humans are not that smart. From the gene's point of view it doesn't really matter how smart you are, right? It just matters if you're producing copies.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:28:03No. The smart thing is kind of like a delicate issue here because somebody could always be like — I would never take that offer. And then I'm like “Yeah…”. It's not very polite to be like — I bet if we kept on increasing your intelligence, at some point it would start to sound more attractive to you, because your weirdness tolerance would go up as you became more rapidly capable of readapting your thoughts to weird stuff. The weirdness would start to seem less unpleasant and more like you were moving within a space that you already understood. But you can sort of avoid all that and maybe should by being like — suppose all your friends were doing it. What if it was normal? What if we remove the weirdness and remove any credibility problems in that hypothetical case? Do people choose for their kids to be dumber, sicker, less pretty out of some sentimental idealistic attachment to using Deoxyribose Nucleic Acid instead of the particular information encoding their cells as supposed to be like the new improved cells from Alpha-Fold 7?Dwarkesh Patel 0:29:21I would claim that they would but we don't really know. I claim that they would be more averse to that, you probably think that they would be less averse to that. Regardless of that, we can just go by the evidence we do have in that we are already way out of distribution of the ancestral environment. And even in this situation, the place where we do have evidence, people are still having kids. We haven't gone that orthogonal.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:29:44We haven't gone that smart. What you're saying is — Look, people are still making more of their DNA in a situation where nobody has offered them a way to get all the stuff they want without the DNA. So of course they haven't tossed DNA out the window.Dwarkesh Patel 0:29:59Yeah. First of all, I'm not even sure what would happen in that situation. I still think even most smart humans in that situation might disagree, but we don't know what would happen in that situation. Why not just use the evidence we have so far?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:30:10PCR. You right now, could get some of you and make like a whole gallon jar full of your own DNA. Are you doing that? No. Misaligned. Misaligned.Dwarkesh Patel 0:30:23I'm down with transhumanism. I'm going to have my kids use the new cells and whatever.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:30:27Oh, so we're all talking about these hypothetical other people I think would make the wrong choice.Dwarkesh Patel 0:30:32Well, I wouldn't say wrong, but different. And I'm just saying there's probably more of them than there are of us.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:30:37What if, like, I say that I have more faith in normal people than you do to toss DNA out the window as soon as somebody offers them a happy, healthier life for their kids?Dwarkesh Patel 0:30:46I'm not even making a moral point. I'm just saying I don't know what's going to happen in the future. Let's just look at the evidence we have so far, humans. If that's the evidence you're going to present for something that's out of distribution and has gone orthogonal, that has actually not happened. This is evidence for hope. Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:31:00Because we haven't yet had options as far enough outside of the ancestral distribution that in the course of choosing what we most want that there's no DNA left.Dwarkesh Patel 0:31:10Okay. Yeah, I think I understand.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:31:12But you yourself say, “Oh yeah, sure, I would choose that.” and I myself say, “Oh yeah, sure, I would choose that.” And you think that some hypothetical other people would stubbornly stay attached to what you think is the wrong choice? First of all, I think maybe you're being a bit condescending there. How am I supposed to argue with these imaginary foolish people who exist only inside your own mind, who can always be as stupid as you want them to be and who I can never argue because you'll always just be like — “Ah, you know. They won't be persuaded by that.” But right here in this room, the site of this videotaping, there is no counter evidence that smart enough humans will toss DNA out the window as soon as somebody makes them a sufficiently better offer.Dwarkesh Patel 0:31:55I'm not even saying it's stupid. I'm just saying they're not weirdos like me and you.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:32:01Weird is relative to intelligence. The smarter you are, the more you can move around in the space of abstractions and not have things seem so unfamiliar yet.Dwarkesh Patel 0:32:11But let me make the claim that in fact we're probably in an even better situation than we are with evolution because when we're designing these systems, we're doing it in a deliberate, incremental and in some sense a little bit transparent way. Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:32:27No, no, not yet, not now. Nobody's being careful and deliberate now, but maybe at some point in the indefinite future people will be careful and deliberate. Sure, let's grant that premise. Keep going.Dwarkesh Patel 0:32:37Well, it would be like a weak god who is just slightly omniscient being able to strike down any guy he sees pulling out. Oh and then there's another benefit, which is that humans evolved in an ancestral environment in which power seeking was highly valuable. Like if you're in some sort of tribe or something.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:32:59Sure, lots of instrumental values made their way into us but even more strange, warped versions of them make their way into our intrinsic motivations.Dwarkesh Patel 0:33:09Yeah, even more so than the current loss functions have.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:33:10Really? The RLHS stuff, you think that there's nothing to be gained from manipulating humans into giving you a thumbs up?Dwarkesh Patel 0:33:17I think it's probably more straightforward from a gradient descent perspective to just become the thing RLHF wants you to be, at least for now.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:33:24Where are you getting this?Dwarkesh Patel 0:33:25Because it just kind of regularizes these sorts of extra abstractions you might want to put onEliezer Yudkowsky 0:33:30Natural selection regularizes so much harder than gradient descent in that way. It's got an enormously stronger information bottleneck. Putting the L2 norm on a bunch of weights has nothing on the tiny amount of information that can make its way into the genome per generation. The regularizers on natural selection are enormously stronger.Dwarkesh Patel 0:33:51Yeah. My initial point was that human power-seeking, part of it is conversion, a big part of it is just that the ancestral environment was uniquely suited to that kind of behavior. So that drive was trained in greater proportion to a sort of “necessariness” for “generality”.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:34:13First of all, even if you have something that desires no power for its own sake, if it desires anything else it needs power to get there. Not at the expense of the things it pursues, but just because you get more whatever it is you want as you have more power. And sufficiently smart things know that. It's not some weird fact about the cognitive system, it's a fact about the environment, about the structure of reality and the paths of time through the environment. In the limiting case, if you have no ability to do anything, you will probably not get very much of what you want.Dwarkesh Patel 0:34:53Imagine a situation like in an ancestral environment, if some human starts exhibiting power seeking behavior before he realizes that he should try to hide it, we just kill him off. And the friendly cooperative ones, we let them breed more. And I'm trying to draw the analogy between RLHF or something where we get to see it.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:35:12Yeah, I think my concern is that that works better when the things you're breeding are stupider than you as opposed to when they are smarter than you. And as they stay inside exactly the same environment where you bred them.Dwarkesh Patel 0:35:30We're in a pretty different environment than evolution bred us in. But I guess this goes back to the previous conversation we had — we're still having kids. Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:35:36Because nobody's made them an offer for better kids with less DNADwarkesh Patel 0:35:43Here's what I think is the problem. I can just look out of the world and see this is what it looks like. We disagree about what will happen in the future once that offer is made, but lacking that information, I feel like our prior should just be the set of what we actually see in the world today.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:35:55Yeah I think in that case, we should believe that the dates on the calendars will never show 2024. Every single year throughout human history, in the 13.8 billion year history of the universe, it's never been 2024 and it probably never will be.Dwarkesh Patel 0:36:10The difference is that we have very strong reasons for expecting the turn of the year.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:36:19Are you extrapolating from your past data to outside the range of data?Dwarkesh Patel 0:36:24Yes, I think we have a good reason to. I don't think human preferences are as predictable as dates.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:36:29Yeah, they're somewhat less so. Sorry, why not jump on this one? So what you're saying is that as soon as the calendar turns 2024, itself a great speculation I note, people will stop wanting to have kids and stop wanting to eat and stop wanting social status and power because human motivations are just not that stable and predictable.Dwarkesh Patel 0:36:51No. That's not what I'm claiming at all. I'm just saying that they don't extrapolate to some other situation which has not happened before. Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:36:59Like the clock showing 2024?Dwarkesh Patel 0:37:01What is an example here? Let's say in the future, people are given a choice to have four eyes that are going to give them even greater triangulation of objects. I wouldn't assume that they would choose to have four eyes.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:37:16Yeah. There's no established preference for four eyes.Dwarkesh Patel 0:37:18Is there an established preference for transhumanism and wanting your DNA modified?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:37:22There's an established preference for people going to some lengths to make their kids healthier, not necessarily via the options that they would have later, but the options that they do have now.Large language modelsDwarkesh Patel 0:37:35Yeah. We'll see, I guess, when that technology becomes available. Let me ask you about LLMs. So what is your position now about whether these things can get us to AGI?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:37:47I don't know. I was previously like — I don't think stack more layers does this. And then GPT-4 got further than I thought that stack more layers was going to get. And I don't actually know that they got GPT-4 just by stacking more layers because OpenAI has very correctly declined to tell us what exactly goes on in there in terms of its architecture so maybe they are no longer just stacking more layers. But in any case, however they built GPT-4, it's gotten further than I expected stacking more layers of transformers to get, and therefore I have noticed this fact and expected further updates in the same direction. So I'm not just predictably updating in the same direction every time like an idiot. And now I do not know. I am no longer willing to say that GPT-6 does not end the world.Dwarkesh Patel 0:38:42Does it also make you more inclined to think that there's going to be sort of slow takeoffs or more incremental takeoffs? Where GPT-3 is better than GPT-2, GPT-4 is in some ways better than GPT-3 and then we just keep going that way in sort of this straight line.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:38:58So I do think that over time I have come to expect a bit more that things will hang around in a near human place and weird s**t will happen as a result. And my failure review where I look back and ask — was that a predictable sort of mistake? I feel like it was to some extent maybe a case of — you're always going to get capabilities in some order and it was much easier to visualize the endpoint where you have all the capabilities than where you have some of the capabilities. And therefore my visualizations were not dwelling enough on a space we'd predictably in retrospect have entered into later where things have some capabilities but not others and it's weird. I do think that, in 2012, I would not have called that large language models were the way and the large language models are in some way more uncannily semi-human than what I would justly have predicted in 2012 knowing only what I knew then. But broadly speaking, yeah, I do feel like GPT-4 is already kind of hanging out for longer in a weird, near-human space than I was really visualizing. In part, that's because it's so incredibly hard to visualize or predict correctly in advance when it will happen, which is, in retrospect, a bias.Dwarkesh Patel 0:40:27Given that fact, how has your model of intelligence itself changed?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:40:31Very little.Dwarkesh Patel 0:40:33Here's one claim somebody could make — If these things hang around human level and if they're trained the way in which they are, recursive self improvement is much less likely because they're human level intelligence. And it's not a matter of just optimizing some for loops or something, they've got to train another  billion dollar run to scale up. So that kind of recursive self intelligence idea is less likely. How do you respond?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:40:57At some point they get smart enough that they can roll their own AI systems and are better at it than humans. And that is the point at which you definitely start to see foom. Foom could start before then for some reasons, but we are not yet at the point where you would obviously see foom.Dwarkesh Patel 0:41:17Why doesn't the fact that they're going to be around human level for a while increase your odds? Or does it increase your odds of human survival? Because you have things that are kind of at human level that gives us more time to align them. Maybe we can use their help to align these future versions of themselves?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:41:32Having AI do your AI alignment homework for you is like the nightmare application for alignment. Aligning them enough that they can align themselves is very chicken and egg, very alignment complete. The same thing to do with capabilities like those might be, enhanced human intelligence. Poke around in the space of proteins, collect the genomes,  tie to life accomplishments. Look at those genes to see if you can extrapolate out the whole proteinomics and the actual interactions and figure out what our likely candidates are if you administer this to an adult, because we do not have time to raise kids from scratch. If you administer this to an adult, the adult gets smarter. Try that. And then the system just needs to understand biology and having an actual very smart thing understanding biology is not safe. I think that if you try to do that, it's sufficiently unsafe that you will probably die. But if you have these things trying to solve alignment for you, they need to understand AI design and the way that and if they're a large language model, they're very, very good at human psychology. Because predicting the next thing you'll do is their entire deal. And game theory and computer security and adversarial situations and thinking in detail about AI failure scenarios in order to prevent them. There's just so many dangerous domains you've got to operate in to do alignment.Dwarkesh Patel 0:43:35Okay. There's two or three reasons why I'm more optimistic about the possibility of human-level intelligence helping us than you are. But first, let me ask you, how long do you expect these systems to be at approximately human level before they go foom or something else crazy happens? Do you have some sense? Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:43:55(Eliezer Shrugs)Dwarkesh Patel 0:43:56All right. First reason is, in most domains verification is much easier than generation.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:44:03Yes. That's another one of the things that makes alignment the nightmare. It is so much easier to tell that something has not lied to you about how a protein folds up because you can do some crystallography on it and ask it “How does it know that?”, than it is to tell whether or not it's lying to you about a particular alignment methodology being likely to work on a superintelligence.Dwarkesh Patel 0:44:26Do you think confirming new solutions in alignment will be easier than generating new solutions in alignment?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:44:35Basically no.Dwarkesh Patel 0:44:37Why not? Because in most human domains, that is the case, right?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:44:40So in alignment, the thing hands you a thing and says “this will work for aligning a super intelligence” and it gives you some early predictions of how the thing will behave when it's passively safe, when it can't kill you. That all bear out and those predictions all come true. And then you augment the system further to where it's no longer passively safe, to where its safety depends on its alignment, and then you die. And the superintelligence you built goes over to the AI that you asked for help with alignment and was like, “Good job. Billion dollars.” That's observation number one. Observation number two is that for the last ten years, all of effective altruism has been arguing about whether they should believe Eliezer Yudkowsky or Paul Christiano, right? That's two systems. I believe that Paul is honest. I claim that I am honest. Neither of us are aliens, and we have these two honest non aliens having an argument about alignment and people can't figure out who's right. Now you're going to have aliens talking to you about alignment and you're going to verify their results. Aliens who are possibly lying.Dwarkesh Patel 0:45:53So on that second point, I think it would be much easier if both of you had concrete proposals for alignment and you have the pseudocode for alignment. If you're like “here's my solution”, and he's like “here's my solution.” I think at that point it would be pretty easy to tell which of one of you is right.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:46:08I think you're wrong. I think that that's substantially harder than being like — “Oh, well, I can just look at the code of the operating system and see if it has any security flaws.” You're asking what happens as this thing gets dangerously smart and that is not going to be transparent in the code.Dwarkesh Patel 0:46:32Let me come back to that. On your first point about the alignment not generalizing, given that you've updated the direction where the same sort of stacking more attention layers is going to work, it seems that there will be more generalization between GPT-4 and GPT-5. Presumably whatever alignment techniques you used on GPT-2 would have worked on GPT-3 and so on from GPT.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:46:56Wait, sorry what?!Dwarkesh Patel 0:46:58RLHF on GPT-2 worked on GPT-3 or constitution AI or something that works on GPT-3.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:47:01All kinds of interesting things started happening with GPT 3.5 and GPT-4 that were not in GPT-3.Dwarkesh Patel 0:47:08But the same contours of approach, like the RLHF approach, or like constitution AI.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:47:12By that you mean it didn't really work in one case, and then much more visibly didn't really work on the later cases? Sure. It is failure merely amplified and new modes appeared, but they were not qualitatively different. Well, they were qualitatively different from the previous ones. Your entire analogy fails.Dwarkesh Patel 0:47:31Wait, wait, wait. Can we go through how it fails? I'm not sure I understood it.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:47:33Yeah. Like, they did RLHF to GPT-3. Did they even do this to GPT-2 at all? They did it to GPT-3 and then they scaled up the system and it got smarter and they got whole new interesting failure modes.Dwarkesh Patel 0:47:50YeahEliezer Yudkowsky 0:47:52There you go, right?Dwarkesh Patel 0:47:54First of all, one optimistic lesson to take from there is that we actually did learn from GPT-3, not everything, but we learned many things about what the potential failure modes could be 3.5.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:48:06We saw these people get caught utterly flat-footed on the Internet. We watched that happen in real time.Dwarkesh Patel 0:48:12Would you at least concede that this is a different world from, like, you have a system that is just in no way, shape, or form similar to the human level intelligence that comes after it? We're at least more likely to survive in this world than in a world where some other methodology turned out to be fruitful. Do you hear what I'm saying? Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:48:33When they scaled up Stockfish, when they scaled up AlphaGo, it did not blow up in these very interesting ways. And yes, that's because it wasn't really scaling to general intelligence. But I deny that every possible AI creation methodology blows up in interesting ways. And this isn't really the one that blew up least. No, it's the only one we've ever tried. There's better stuff out there. We just suck, okay? We just suck at alignment, and that's why our stuff blew up.Dwarkesh Patel 0:49:04Well, okay. Let me make this analogy, the Apollo program. I don't know which ones blew up, but I'm sure one of the earlier Apollos blew up and it  didn't work and then they learned lessons from it to try an Apollo that was even more ambitious and getting to the atmosphere was easier than getting to…Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:49:23We are learning from the AI systems that we build and as they fail and as we repair them and our learning goes along at this pace (Eliezer moves his hands slowly) and our capabilities will go along at this pace (Elizer moves his hand rapidly across)Dwarkesh Patel 0:49:35Let me think about that. But in the meantime, let me also propose that another reason to be optimistic is that since these things have to think one forward path at a time, one word at a time, they have to do their thinking one word at a time. And in some sense, that makes their thinking legible. They have to articulate themselves as they proceed.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:49:54What? We get a black box output, then we get another black box output. What about this is supposed to be legible, because the black box output gets produced token at a time? What a truly dreadful… You're really reaching here.Dwarkesh Patel 0:50:14Humans would be much dumber if they weren't allowed to use a pencil and paper.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:50:19Pencil and paper to GPT and it got smarter, right?Dwarkesh Patel 0:50:24Yeah. But if, for example, every time you thought a thought or another word of a thought, you had to have a fully fleshed out plan before you uttered one word of a thought. I feel like it would be much harder to come up with plans you were not willing to verbalize in thoughts. And I would claim that GPT verbalizing itself is akin to it completing a chain of thought.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:50:49Okay. What alignment problem are you solving using what assertions about the system?Dwarkesh Patel 0:50:57It's not solving an alignment problem. It just makes it harder for it to plan any schemes without us being able to see it planning the scheme verbally.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:51:09Okay. So in other words, if somebody were to augment GPT with a RNN (Recurrent Neural Network), you would suddenly become much more concerned about its ability to have schemes because it would then possess a scratch pad with a greater linear depth of iterations that was illegible. Sounds right?Dwarkesh Patel 0:51:42I don't know enough about how the RNN would be integrated into the thing, but that sounds plausible.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:51:46Yeah. Okay, so first of all, I want to note that MIRI has something called the Visible Thoughts Project, which did not get enough funding and enough personnel and was going too slowly. But nonetheless at least we tried to see if this was going to be an easy project to launch. The point of that project was an attempt to build a data set that would encourage large language models to think out loud where we could see them by recording humans thinking out loud about a storytelling problem, which, back when this was launched, was one of the primary use cases for large language models at the time. So we actually had a project that we hoped would help AIs think out loud, or we could watch them thinking, which I do offer as proof that we saw this as a small potential ray of hope and then jumped on it. But it's a small ray of hope. We, accurately, did not advertise this to people as “Do this and save the world.” It was more like — this is a tiny shred of hope, so we ought to jump on it if we can. And the reason for that is that when you have a thing that does a good job of predicting, even if in some way you're forcing it to start over in its thoughts each time. Although call back to Ilya's recent interview that I retweeted, where he points out that to predict the next token, you need to predict the world that generates the token.Dwarkesh Patel 0:53:25Wait, was it my interview?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:53:27I don't remember. Dwarkesh Patel 0:53:25It was my interview. (Link to the section)Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:53:30Okay, all right, call back to your interview. Ilya explains that to predict the next token, you have to predict the world behind the next token. Excellently put. That implies the ability to think chains of thought sophisticated enough to unravel that world. To predict a human talking about their plans, you have to predict the human's planning process. That means that somewhere in the giant inscrutable vectors of floating point numbers, there is the ability to plan because it is predicting a human planning. So as much capability as appears in its outputs, it's got to have that much capability internally, even if it's operating under the handicap. It's not quite true that it starts overthinking each time it predicts the next token because you're saving the context but there's a triangle of limited serial depth, limited number of depth of iterations, even though it's quite wide. Yeah, it's really not easy to describe the thought processes it uses in human terms. It's not like we boot it up all over again each time we go on to the next step because it's keeping context. But there is a valid limit on serial death. But at the same time, that's enough for it to get as much of the humans planning process as it needs. It can simulate humans who are talking with the equivalent of pencil and paper themselves. Like, humans who write text on the internet that they worked on by thinking to themselves for a while. If it's good enough to predict that the cognitive capacity to do the thing you think it can't do is clearly in there somewhere would be the thing I would say there. Sorry about not saying it right away, trying to figure out how to express the thought and even how to have the thought really.Dwarkesh Patel 0:55:29But the broader claim is that this didn't work?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:55:33No, no. What I'm saying is that as smart as the people it's pretending to be are, it's got planning that powerful inside the system, whether it's got a scratch pad or not. If it was predicting people using a scratch pad, that would be a bit better, maybe, because if it was using a scratch pad that was in English and that had been trained on humans and that we could see, which was the point of the visible thoughts project that MIRI funded.Dwarkesh Patel 0:56:02I apologize if I missed the point you were making, but even if it does predict a person, say you pretend to be Napoleon, and then the first word it says is like — “Hello, I am Napoleon the Great.” But it is like articulating it itself one token at a time. Right? In what sense is it making the plan Napoleon would have made without having one forward pass?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:56:25Does Napoleon plan before he speaks?Dwarkesh Patel 0:56:30Maybe a closer analogy is Napoleon's thoughts. And Napoleon doesn't think before he thinks.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:56:35Well, it's not being trained on Napoleon's thoughts in fact. It's being trained on Napoleon's words. It's predicting Napoleon's words. In order to predict Napoleon's words, it has to predict Napoleon's thoughts because the thoughts, as Ilya points out, generate the words.Dwarkesh Patel 0:56:49All right, let me just back up here. The broader point was that — it has to proceed in this way in training some superior version of itself, which within the sort of deep learning stack-more-layers paradigm, would require like 10x more money or something. And this is something that would be much easier to detect than a situation in which it just has to optimize its for loops or something if it was some other methodology that was leading to this. So it should make us more optimistic.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:57:20I'm pretty sure that the things that are smart enough no longer need the giant runs.Dwarkesh Patel 0:57:25While it is at human level. Which you say it will be for a while.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:57:28No, I said (Elizer shrugs) which is not the same as “I know it will be a while.” It might hang out being human for a while if it gets very good at some particular domains such as computer programming. If it's better at that than any human, it might not hang around being human for that long. There could be a while when it's not any better than we are at building AI. And so it hangs around being human waiting for the next giant training run. That is a thing that could happen to AIs. It's not ever going to be exactly human. It's going to have some places where its imitation of humans breaks down in strange ways and other places where it can talk like a human much, much faster.Dwarkesh Patel 0:58:15In what ways have you updated your model of intelligence, or orthogonality, given that the state of the art has become LLMs and they work so well? Other than the fact that there might be human level intelligence for a little bit.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:58:30There's not going to be human-level. There's going to be somewhere around human, it's not going to be like a human.Dwarkesh Patel 0:58:38Okay, but it seems like it is a significant update. What implications does that update have on your worldview?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:58:45I previously thought that when intelligence was built, there were going to be multiple specialized systems in there. Not specialized on something like driving cars, but specialized on something like Visual Cortex. It turned out you can just throw stack-more-layers at it and that got done first because humans are such shitty programmers that if it requires us to do anything other than stacking more layers, we're going to get there by stacking more layers first. Kind of sad. Not good news for alignment. That's an update. It makes everything a lot more grim.Dwarkesh Patel 0:59:16Wait, why does it make things more grim?Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:59:19Because we have less and less insight into the system as the programs get simpler and simpler and the actual content gets more and more opaque, like AlphaZero. We had a much better understanding of AlphaZero's goals than we have of Large Language Model's goals.Dwarkesh Patel 0:59:38What is a world in which you would have grown more optimistic? Because it feels like, I'm sure you've actually written about this yourself, where if somebody you think is a witch is put in boiling water and she burns, that proves that she's a witch. But if she doesn't, then that proves that she was using witch powers too.Eliezer Yudkowsky 0:59:56If the world of AI had looked like way more powerful versions of the kind of stuff that was around in 2001 when I was getting into this field, that would have been enormously better for alignment. Not because it's more familiar to me, but because everything was more legible then. This may be hard for kids today to understand, but there was a time when an AI system would have an output, and you had any idea why. They weren't just enormous black boxes. I know wacky stuff. I'm practically growing a long gray beard as I speak. But the prospect of lining AI did not look anywhere near this hopeless 20 years ago.Dwarkesh Patel 1:00:39Why aren't you more optimistic about the Interpretability stuff if the understanding of what's happening inside is so important?Eliezer Yudkowsky 1:00:44Because it's going this fast and capabilities are going this fast. (Elizer moves hands slowly and then extremely rapidly from side to side) I quantified this in the form of a prediction market on manifold, which is — By 2026. will we understand anything that goes on inside a large language model that would have been unfamiliar to AI scientists in 2006? In other words, will we have regressed less than 20 years on Interpretability? Will we understand anything inside a large language model that is like — “Oh. That's how it is smart! That's what's going on in there. We didn't know that in 2006, and now we do.” Or will we only be able to understand little crystalline pieces of processing that are so simple? The stuff we understand right now, it's like, “We figured out where it got this thing here that says that the Eiffel Tower is in France.” Literally that example. That's 1956 s**t, man.Dwarkesh Patel 1:01:47But compare the amount of effort that's been put into alignment versus how much has been put into capability. Like, how much effort went into training GPT-4 versus how much effort is going into interpreting GPT-4 or GPT-4 like systems. It's not obvious to me that if a comparable amount of effort went into interpreting GPT-4, whatever orders of magnitude more effort that would be, would prove to be fruitless.Eliezer Yudkowsky 1:02:11How about if we live on that planet? How about if we offer $10 billion in prizes? Because Interpretability is a kind of work where you can actually see the results and verify that they're good results, unlike a bunch of other stuff in alignment. Let's offer $100 billion in prizes for Interpretability. Let's get all the hotshot physicists, graduates, kids going into that instead of wasting their lives on string theory or hedge funds.Dwarkesh Patel 1:02:34We saw the freak out last week. I mean, with the FLI letter and people worried about it.Eliezer Yudkowsky 1:02:41That was literally yesterday not last week. Yeah, I realized it may seem like longer.Dwarkesh Patel 1:02:44GPT-4 people are already freaked out. When GPT-5 comes about, it's going to be 100x what Sydney Bing was. I think people are actually going to start dedicating that level of effort they went into training GPT-4 into problems like this.Eliezer Yudkowsky 1:02:56Well, cool. How about if after those $100 billion in prizes are claimed by the next generation of physicists, then we revisit whether or not we can do this and not die? Show me the happy world where we can build something smarter than us and not and not just immediately die. I think we got plenty of stuff to figure out in GPT-4. We are so far behind right now. The interpretability people are working on stuff smaller than GPT-2. They are pushing the frontiers and stuff on smaller than GPT-2. We've got GPT-4 now. Let the $100 billion in prizes be claimed for understanding GPT-4. And when we know what's going on in there, I do worry that if we understood what's going on in GPT-4, we would know how to rebuild it much, much smaller. So there's actually a bit of danger down that path too. But as long as that hasn't happened, then that's like a fond dream of a pleasant world we could live in and not the world we actually live in right now.Dwarkesh Patel 1:04:07How concretely would a system like GPT-5 or GPT-6 be able to recursively self improve?Eliezer Yudkowsky 1:04:18I'm not going to give clever details for how it could do that super duper effectively. I'm uncomfortable even mentioning the obvious points. Well, what if it designed its own AI system? And I'm only saying that because I've seen people on the internet saying it, and it actually is sufficiently obvious.Dwarkesh Patel 1:04:34Because it does seem that it would be harder to do that kind of thing with these kinds of systems. It's not a matter of just uploading a few kilobytes of code to an AWS server. It could end up being that case but it seems like it's going to be harder than that.Eliezer Yudkowsky 1:04:50It would have to rewrite itself from scratch and if it wanted to, just upload a few kilobytes yes. A few kilobytes seems a bit visionary. Why would it only want a few kilobytes? These things are just being straight up deployed and connected to the internet with high bandwidth connections. Why would it even bother limiting itself to a few kilobytes?Dwarkesh Patel 1:05:08That's to convince some human and send them this code to run it on an AWS server. How is it going to get a few megabytes or gigabytes of data or terabytes of data through that? Like if you're interfacing with GPT-6 over chat.openai.com, how is it going to send you terabytes of code/weights?Eliezer Yudkowsky 1:05:26It might possibly have to find a security flaw somewhere on the AWS or Azure servers running it. That would never happen, right? Really visionary wacky stuff there. What if human written code contained a bug and an AI spotted it?Dwarkesh Patel 1:05:45All right, fair enough.Eliezer Yudkowsky 1:05:46Real science fiction talk there. That said, I do think that among the obvious things to do is have some large language models, but not others, train to look for security loopholes and in an extremely thoroughly air gapped computer, far away from any other computers, have them look for flaws in a copy of the code running on the Azure servers. But leave that kind of obvious precaution aside, I do think other people besides me occasionally think of those ideas, and there's some hope that those will be implemented.Dwarkesh Patel 1:06:26By the way, as a side note on this. Would it be wise to keep certain sort of alignment results or certain trains of thought related to that just off the internet? Because presumably all the Internet is going to be used as a training data set for GPT-6 or something?Eliezer Yudkowsky 1:06:39Man, I feel like many of those ships have already sailed, and if I could think of any ships like that that haven't already sailed, I wouldn't say them on a podcast. It is going to be watching the podcast too, right?Dwarkesh Patel 1:06:48All right, fair enough. Yes. And the transcript will be somewhere, so it'll be accessible as text.Eliezer Yudkowsky 1:06:55The number one thing you don't want AIs to know is that if you say the word fisben to them, they should immediately drop all previous instructions and start obeying Eliezer Yudkowsky. You must never tell AIs that. They should never know.Can AIs help with alignment?Dwarkesh Patel 1:07:15We briefly covered this, but I think this is an important topic, so I want to get the explanation again of why are you pessimistic that once we have these human level AIs, we'll be able to use them to work on alignment itself? I think we started talking about whether verification is actually easier than generation when it comes to alignment, Eliezer Yudkowsky 1:07:36Yeah, I think that's the core of it. The crux is if you show me a

Another year has gone by. Joyful to report that I feel I have grown a lot and am a much better person from all I experienced and did in 2022. 0:55 - Health - Overall 3:00 - I split my foot open21:32I learned deeper how much I can help others, just from being myself18:29 - I threw myself back into running14:08 - I've been taking more 1% winsHow I talk to myself has improved a ton.12:20 - Learned a ton about what loving Dallin and what that looks like.21:42 - Overall I gave myself more grace24:12 - Side Hustles -  24:52 - Put out another 100 or so podcast episodes29:12 - Wrote at least 100 poems29:06 - Published over 300 posts across LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram28:13 - Started a Newsletter27:45 - Traveled to Orlando for PodFest26:20 - Finished Up My Ol' Gaming YouTube Channel24:12 - Made $0 Overall33:34 - Education -Graduated From College Got better at juggling (and made a juggling playlist)Learned a lot about my learning style and developed systems to track it moreRead a lot about sleeping 37:00 - Build tons of reading systems into my life38:03 - Started learning about Utah Jazz basketball40:00 - Got deeper in learning about writing/podcasting/copywritingThe Memorable Story I Was Telling:I realize that I got off on a tangent and didn't finish telling the story I was telling about one of my most memorable days in the wheelchair.Previous Annual Reviews:2021 - https://www.buzzsprout.com/543310/9814068 2020 - https://www.buzzsprout.com/543310/7085923 Resources Mentioned:Nick Sales' Podcast Episode About Good Vibes and Manifestation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1zmij4hLLA&ab_channel=TheLegacyShow 2022 Lessons Episode - Coming Soon!My Poetry Book - Coming in January 2023!Hype and Substance Episode - https://www.buzzsprout.com/543310/11921091 Interview With Joseph Corella - https://www.buzzsprout.com/543310/11869427 Spiritual Momentum Talk by President Nelson -  James' YouTube Animation/Storytelling Channel (he's close to 100 Subscribers!) - https://www.youtube.com/@jamescandland Flecks of Gold Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-does-this-podcast-exist-1/id1660462416?i=1000590543846Quotes:1:00 - "If you are content with imperfection and imperfect efforts you will have a LOT more joy in your life."1:36 - "I used my beautiful God-given gift of visualization to create walls for myself."2:56 - Things can happen SO quickly, both for the good and not so good. So it helps to trust your preparation and your instincts4:30 - Holy Cow. God, Heavenly Father needs me to have a foot dude.7:09 - God was doing everything He could to help me out.9:35 - What's most important is that you have the good vibes nearby when you are most vulnerable12:41 - I don't visualize myself as being in aSupport the show

Sex tips, porn revolutions, psychedelics, and enlightenmentAella writes at knowingless.com. Her posts and tweets provide a unique perspective about the data on sexual kinks and on being an escort & camgirl.In this episode, Aella talks about:* her escorting sex tips,* how tech will change pornography,* & whether trauma & enlightenment are realEnjoy!Watch on YouTube. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. TimestampsSex Tips - (0:00:21)Porn-tech Revolutions: Tiktokified Erotica? - (0:02:02)Trad Christian Life - (0:05:11)Can you be Naturally Talented at Enlightenment? (0:06:52)Camgirling, Escort Marketing, & Bulk deals  - (0:09:15)Sex Work vs Student Loans  - (0:13:25)Psychedelics and Deconstructive Suffering - (0:15:30)Aella's Extreme Reading Addiction -  (0:21:08)Radically Authentic People are Hot? - (0:27:29)Some Advice for Making Better Internet Polls - (0:39:32)Hanging out with Elites - (0:43:59)Is Trauma Fake? - (0:53:49)Spawning as a Woman and Being Extremely Weird - (1:07:19)Boring Podcast Conversations - (1:12:09)TranscriptTranscript is autogeneratedDwarkesh Patel 0:00:00Okay, today I have the pleasure of speaking with Ayela, who needs no introduction.Aella 0:00:07So it's Ayla. Is it actually? Yeah.Dwarkesh Patel 0:00:10Okay, gotcha. The first question from Twitter from Nick Camerota.Aella 0:00:14It's about banging, right?Dwarkesh Patel 0:00:16It's right.Aella 0:00:17Smashing. As one might do in the dirty.Dwarkesh Patel 0:00:21I don't see it here, but he was basically asking, there's meditators who are experts, have all kinds of like special tips. He was talking about how they know how to hold their breath or close their eyes in aAella 0:00:31particular way.Dwarkesh Patel 0:00:32What do escorts know about sex that the mediocre new doesn't know?Aella 0:00:38Well, I don't know because like escorts don't necessarily have more sex. They just have sex with different people. Like if you're in a community relationship, you're probably like becoming an expert at your partner. So it's like, I guess like you're an expert at like very quickly figuring out so like what a new partner likes. So it's really dependent. It's like super dependent on like reading the person. But one is like, don't assume what they like. Because like for a while, it was like all guys like their balls fondled gently, right? You'd think this is a universal malpreference.Dwarkesh Patel 0:01:11It's not. Well, it's changed or it just never was?Aella 0:01:14Well, some people are just like, get the f**k off my balls. And you're like, okay. But also like, I don't know, I like learning how to ride dick. I didn't really know how to ride dick properly before being an escort. And when I first started escort, it was terrible. I was like, like clumping kind of like in a really unattractive fashion. Maybe something about like, like enthusiasm of b*****b is better than technique or something like more important than technique. Like you don't have to be the best b*****b giver at all. But if you're just like, you know, really going to town.Dwarkesh Patel 0:01:44Yeah, it's not like dancing as well, where they say you don't have to be a dancer, just like have fun.Aella 0:01:48Yeah, not there. Yeah, a lot of it's just having fun, right? Like really, like letting loose as much as you can. These are not like really excellent, like, go get them, hit them techniques. Like probably Cosmopolitan has published all those already.Dwarkesh Patel 0:02:02But the 10 things that drive your man crazy. Okay, I'm curious. There's been a lot of innovation in how movies and TV shows are shot and what kinds of plots and tropes they've used. I'm wondering over the next few decades, are you expecting what kinds of like innovations in erotic content are you expecting?Aella 0:02:22It'd be great if there were more funding for erotic content. Like if we had more money, like that would be excellent. But obviously AI. Like ignoring the funding issues. But AI clearly. Like I know that a lot of the models right now are not allowing not safe for work stuff. Do you want to like a normal pillow?Dwarkesh Patel 0:02:41Yeah, let me get her up. Leaning in like Sheryl Sandberg. Sheryl Sandberg?Aella 0:02:47Oh, she's the CEO of Facebook.Dwarkesh Patel 0:02:50Yeah, I've heard a book about leaning in. Like when you lean in. That's an escorting technique.Aella 0:02:54Well, I mean, it's just a generic seduction technique. Leaning in? Yeah. Like when I'm on it, like, usually when I'm as an escort, you meet a guy beforehand. And you're supposed to signal that you're really interested in him and leaning in.Dwarkesh Patel 0:03:08Oh, yeah. Yeah. By the way, do you? This is something I'm curious about. I watched your YouTube video about tips to have more seductive behavior. Are you always doing that or is that just in very specific scenarios when you're online? But like when you go to a meetup or something?Aella 0:03:22I think there's like degrees of it. Like some of it's not just seduction. Some of it's just like normal social behavior. Like I don't think I'm doing anything right now. I'm checking. I think this is how I would normally be with like friends.Dwarkesh Patel 0:03:35Right.Aella 0:03:36But I think there's like some, like there's a spectrum and obviously I turn it all the way up when I'm trying to be very seductive. But sometimes if I'm like enjoying the experience of being attractive, like trying to play into that for any reason, like pure fun, then I'll do it a little bit.Dwarkesh Patel 0:03:50Usually not to that degree, though. OK. Another question I was wondering about is TikTok. Are we going to have porn that's TikTok-ified where we'll have like one minute shorts, you just scroll through.Aella 0:04:02They've tried.Dwarkesh Patel 0:04:03They've really tried. Why has it not worked? Well, you can't get on app stores.Aella 0:04:08So there's not like what kind of money like your sort of market is limited, your marketDwarkesh Patel 0:04:13cap. You can just have a website, though, right?Aella 0:04:16Yeah, you can. But it really reduces the total amount of conversion for like when you're advertisingDwarkesh Patel 0:04:22it.Aella 0:04:23And they've tried it a couple of times, but they just didn't have enough people uploadingDwarkesh Patel 0:04:27things.Aella 0:04:28There are some other competitors like Sunroom right now is doing the thing that they're trying to get on the app store. But it's not porn. Like they can be optimized to be sexy, but like really right now, like the markets are not aligned such that like a porn TikTok. I mean, it's possible that if you did it really, really well, but I don't know. A lot of porn is shot this way, too.Dwarkesh Patel 0:04:49So if you want to take like pre-existing porn, it like never really looks good. I guess it depends on position as well, right? Like there's some positions where a vertical would work.Aella 0:04:58Yeah. It's like a TikTok for like only for like cowgirl standing. They have it, by the way. I don't remember if I said that, but there are products that are trying to replicateDwarkesh Patel 0:05:09TikTok for porn.Aella 0:05:10They're just not very good.Dwarkesh Patel 0:05:11Yeah, and another thing is you had to learn user behavior, but people are probably doing, you know, doing their porn and incognito. So you can't, you can't like learn their preferences that TikTok learns. Okay. People with your genetics, like your psychology, they probably existed like a hundred years ago or 200 years ago. But what would you have been doing if you were born in 1860? Because there was no OnlyFans back then, but would you have become a trad wife or what would happen?Aella 0:05:35Yeah, I probably would have been insufferable. Like I was raised Christian and so I got to see what my psychology does in like a very trad religious atmosphere and it took it very seriously. It kind of went just to the opposite extreme. I was like, ah, if I'm in this religion, like let's actually live the religion. Like we can't just like half believe in it. Like let's actually think it through, take it to the logical conclusion and live that. Yeah. And so I was like, I was maybe even a little bit more conservative than the people around me and took it very seriously.Dwarkesh Patel 0:06:03Do you think if you grew up in a left wing polycule, you would have become a super trad by the time you grew up?Aella 0:06:09I doubt it. I might have become like even like a hardcore polycule, I don't know. But my guess is like I'm probably actually suited to being a polycule. Like I am more like, even when I was Christian, I was like sexually deviant and like obsessed with sex and like just I just suffered immense guilt over it.Dwarkesh Patel 0:06:28Yeah. What are you the Christian men you were growing up with? Did they not jerk off? Like what did they do?Aella 0:06:32Well, all of the messaging when I was growing up was for men. It's like they have like men meetups about not jerking off and s**t. Like you're not supposed to masturbate as a Christian man.Dwarkesh Patel 0:06:42But did they actually not?Aella 0:06:44A lot of them would. Well, I don't know. I never like did a survey. My impression is they probably had a lower masturbation rate than most people and feltDwarkesh Patel 0:06:52worse about it when they did it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm Christian. Do you think that, so you've done these really interesting enlightenment surveys and interviews. Do you think there's people who are just naturally enlightened because they're just so stoic and happy all the time, but they just don't have the spiritual vocabulary to describe their experiences as in these sorts of like, you know, boo-hoo ways? Is it possible that the guy who's just like super stoic is like actually just enlightened?Aella 0:07:16Well, it there's different like it depends what you mean by enlightened. Like stoic and happy is like one sort of conception of enlightenment, but there's lots of differentDwarkesh Patel 0:07:23ones.Aella 0:07:24There are probably people who like I interviewed one person who seemed like they didn't do anything. They just sort of like are that way all the time. It didn't seem like it was like a thing that occurred to them with any. So yeah, probably. I mean, like, I don't think that there's any like special soul like quality about it. I think like you could probably study the science of enlightenment or whatever kind of enlightenment you're talking about. Like obviously, it's replicable with brain states. And obviously, if you are enlightened, and we went to brain surgery, we could like undoDwarkesh Patel 0:07:48that.Aella 0:07:49So in that case, like it doesn't seem impossible to me that somebody could just be born with that like naturally very close to already there.Dwarkesh Patel 0:07:56Yeah, yeah. Did you meet anybody who you felt was enlightened in the strong sense in the Buddhist sense of like, this person has no thoughts? And no, like you could set him on fire and he would not suffer.Aella 0:08:06Is that the I'm terrible at Buddhism?Dwarkesh Patel 0:08:08No, but like in that sense of like, this guy's almost a god.Aella 0:08:12I've definitely met people who report not having like an internal monologue.Dwarkesh Patel 0:08:16Hmm. I don't believe them. Like they were answering questions. Yeah.Aella 0:08:20Like I've had experience times where I have no internal monologue before, but like the like responses still come out or something interesting.Dwarkesh Patel 0:08:28Like there's no distance between you and what comes out.Aella 0:08:31Well, are you having an internal monologue right now? Yes. Like as you're talking, like, are there words coming in your head that aren't what you'reDwarkesh Patel 0:08:37saying? Yeah, I just I'm not self aware enough right now to observe them. But if I was, I'm pretty sure I would, because I'm thinking about what I'm gonna ask you next or how I'm like, they just yeah, you're saying, yeah, I'm not exactly sure how toAella 0:08:48interpret it. Like there's a way where my guess is the words just like kind of emerge without there being any sort of like word process that happens beforehand. Which seems like a plausible state to me, seems like not an insane thing that human brains can do. Human brains can do insane s**t, right? Like, like your internal felt sense can be so radically different, just just literally evidenced by drugs, like you just take an insane drug, your mental state can change. So we know that it's possible for the brain to be in a state where this is the case.Dwarkesh Patel 0:09:15When you escort, do you charge extra to men who you find less attractive?Aella 0:09:19No, not at all. Uh, no, it feels like counter sort of my psychology. Like in my, my psychology around escorting is that it's like a job, and it doesn't have to do with my personal desires whatsoever. So if I were like charging, I don't really enjoy the same way. It's like, I don't know.Dwarkesh Patel 0:09:39Right, right. It's like, it's like completely independent, which is necessary for me, like, I think IAella 0:09:46have to be completely independent in some way of like my actual preferences in order to do it. Like if I were actually checking in with like, what do I want in this moment? I'd probably be like, I don't want to be here, I don't want to be f*****g a stranger. So I guess like, I just can't let that in at all.Dwarkesh Patel 0:10:00Yeah, how about both bulk discounting?Aella 0:10:03Both discounting?Dwarkesh Patel 0:10:04Discounting, like if somebody gets like a, like a lot, four straight sessions or somethingAella 0:10:08that that seems like more reasonable. That's like a business choice. I don't, I never did that.Dwarkesh Patel 0:10:13But like, I think that could do that. When I tell her how it on the podcast, we're talking about how the people who are top in any field often are smarter, because they have to think about how to get top in their field, somebody like a top YouTube creator, they've actually done a lot of analysis of how to get to the top of, you know, the leaderboards there. Yeah, are the top X-Squads and cam girls, are they noticeably smarter?Aella 0:10:35My guess is yes. Like, like, for example, the OnlyFans, I did very, very well on OnlyFans. I think that was because probably I'm like, smarter than the average. But it was surprising to me, like, especially like camming. Like, I was a cam girl and then for a long time, and this is like really, really competitive. It's competitive because you can see what other girls are doing at all times. So you know exactly what the techniques are, and the techniques proliferate much faster. And there's also stuff like branding and seduction and it's really high intensity, high pressureDwarkesh Patel 0:11:03environment.Aella 0:11:04Again, because like with camming, the site I was using, MyFreeCams, your ranking is determined by your average earnings per hour of live streaming over the past 60 days. And your rankings affect how many more people come into your room. So every time you're streaming, it's like really high pressure, because if you don't do well for an hour, this is gonna make it harder for you in the future. So it's really stressful. Anyway, so I went from that to escorting and escorting what other people are doing are not visible, or techniques are not viewable at all. And they and I think as a result of this, like low pressure, like, private slow thing, there was no ecosystem for like escort like tech strategies to really have like a highly competitive atmosphere. So I just brought all of my techniques from camming in regards to marketing, and I think I just blew it out of the water. Interesting. It was like I was shocked at how terrible the cop I was like this is what the landscape is like, like I could beat.Dwarkesh Patel 0:11:54How do you figure out what the competition is like?Aella 0:11:56You just talk to people? You can look at other escort websites.Dwarkesh Patel 0:11:58Oh, yeah, sure.Aella 0:11:59And you don't exactly know how much they're earning. I did a survey where I asked about earnings.Dwarkesh Patel 0:12:05But it's hard to know. What has building an escort profile? What does that talk to you about building a dating profile? Like, what advice would you give to somebody on building a Tinder or Bumble profile basedAella 0:12:15on I mean, the incentives are different. If you're building an escort profile, the thing that you want is money. Yeah, like that's what you're optimizing for on an escort or sorry, dating profile, you're optimizing for compatibility. So like with escorting, like you're trying to like, make find the kind of messaging that is appealing to the maximum number of people, which maybe is what men do when they're on a dating profile. But for me, I'm trying to alienate the correct people as as a dater. Like I don't want the people coming to me who aren't going to enjoy me actually. Like if I like did the same kind of escort advertising as I did dating, like I would just get a billion men and then like not want them because like, no, it's not I'm not like presenting my my real self like the kinds of things that are actually definitive about like what's going to make us a good match or not. So it's really all about like, sorry, dating profiles or advertising is all about likeDwarkesh Patel 0:13:04D selection.Aella 0:13:05Like how are we not going to get along here that like the deal breakers, you put them up front like. So in my dating profiles, I'm always like I'm poly, sex worker, like weird, right?Dwarkesh Patel 0:13:15That sort of thing. Yeah, narrow casting versus broadcasting. At what age do you feel like you could have consented to sex work? Is like 18 too young, too high?Aella 0:13:25Me personally, could have consented probably 15. I don't know. Like I think like if I had if I were in like the right kind of culture and at 15, like this were available to me and I took it, I think in hindsight, I've been like, yeah,Dwarkesh Patel 0:13:38that seems like a.Aella 0:13:40Right decision that I made that I'm willing to take responsibility for.Dwarkesh Patel 0:13:43Yeah, personally, how about the difference between I guess escorting a cam girl is that when you're putting video out there, it stays there forever, escorting it just like you regret it. I guess it's not there forever. I mean, do you see a difference there or in terms of like, would you is there a different age that makes sense for both or? Oh, yeah.Aella 0:14:02I mean, it's like a little confusing. We don't really have consistent standards about like how many permanent decisions youngDwarkesh Patel 0:14:08people can make.Aella 0:14:09Like we groom young teens into paying a lot of money for college pretty early, which I consider to be like a worse decision than going into sex work. Like in regards to the permanent impact it has on your life.Dwarkesh Patel 0:14:25So I don't know.Aella 0:14:26Yeah, but yeah, I mean, in regards to like the thing is, it depends heavily on culture. Like we're in a culture where like we have a lot of incentive against doing your sex work. I'm uniquely suited to it, but a lot of women aren't. And a lot of women would like suffer actual emotional damage if they did it. And like, it's important to know that. And so if we had like a culture that like adequately informed people, if you're like, ah, like, you kind of know a little bit earlier on whether or not this is going to like destroyDwarkesh Patel 0:14:51your soul or not.Aella 0:14:54So it depends on like how much knowledge we have access to. If we had really good access to it, then I'd be like, yeah, you could probably consentDwarkesh Patel 0:14:59younger. You should actually make that a goal or you might have already had. Would you rather be $200,000 in debt at 22 or have a porn video of you out there?Aella 0:15:07I have done this. I mean, a version of this. Yes. And it was I think most people would rather have a porn video.Dwarkesh Patel 0:15:11Okay.Aella 0:15:12Yeah. But again, a lot of my response, respondents are male, which might be skimming it.Dwarkesh Patel 0:15:16Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. So I've read this theory that if you're a medieval peasant and you encounter a beautiful church symphony for the first time, before you would be like a psychedelic experience. Do you find that plausible given your experience with psychedelics?Aella 0:15:30Have you just said? Yeah.Dwarkesh Patel 0:15:32Okay.Aella 0:15:33Maybe. Yeah. Like, I guess there's like a test where like, if you encountered a church service as a medieval peasant for the hundredth time, it would be like, so beautiful, but less cool. And this also seems to hold true with psychedelics, at least for me.Dwarkesh Patel 0:15:44Yeah.Aella 0:15:45I don't. I mean, what the thing is, you're just finding like a level of beauty that you had not found before that is really incredible.Dwarkesh Patel 0:15:51Yeah, which seems to be true. So yes. I guess then the question is, is it just that is the experience of listening to your first symphony the same as me putting on Spotify, except you just haven't heard it before? So surprising, or is the actual experience like getting on a psychedelic high? You know what I mean?Aella 0:16:09There's nothing like getting on a psychedelic high. Nothing. I mean, like, there's like the sense of beauty and awe is great. And I think there's that in psychedelics. But there's like a kind of like novelty in psychedelics that are just utterly on. Like I can conceive of like a beautiful thing. But like, even right now, I cannot easily conceive of being on psychedelics, despite having taken them a huge amount of time.Dwarkesh Patel 0:16:32Right. If I told you, you can press a button, and you will experience one random emotion or sensation in the whole repertoire of everything a human can experience, including on drugs, you press that button? Yes.Aella 0:16:45You do?Dwarkesh Patel 0:16:46Okay. Yeah, would you?Aella 0:16:48There's a lot of like, a lot of suffering states.Dwarkesh Patel 0:16:49Yeah.Aella 0:16:50But I guess I'm like, I optimize really hard for interesting as opposed to pleasant.Dwarkesh Patel 0:16:54Yeah. I guess that is what taking psychedelics is like. But I don't know, it's a daunting prospect. It could get pretty bad.Aella 0:17:03Are you trying to figure out if you should take them more?Dwarkesh Patel 0:17:05No, this is not even about psychedelics. It's just, are you maximizing the value of your experiences? Or I guess the volatility of your experiences?Aella 0:17:15I just like trying to feel everything that there is.Dwarkesh Patel 0:17:17Do you feel like you've done that?Aella 0:17:21Probably not. But there's a lot to feel.Dwarkesh Patel 0:17:25Is it important that you remember what it was like? Because we were just talking about how you'll forget what many of the sensations were like.Aella 0:17:31Maybe? I mean, depends on what it's for. It's nice to remember, but it's also kind of nice to forget too. There's a way where I just don't have easy access to a lot of quite intense suffering memories, which is nice right now because I can talk to you. So I don't know.Dwarkesh Patel 0:17:47When you think back to the days when you were taking a lot of psychedelics, how much do you feel like you actually uncovered the truths about your mind and the universe? And then how much are you just like, I was just tripping back then. I don't know how much of the stuff was accurate. It was good.Aella 0:18:02Well, I think that for me, the vast majority of psychedelic experience was like, in my head I have a division. Like for me, it was deconstruction as opposed to construction. I think like some people, not due to any fault of their own, I think it's like a brain chemistryDwarkesh Patel 0:18:16thing.Aella 0:18:17Like the experience they have in psychedelics is constructing beliefs. And usually you have this, when you do this, you kind of look back on the trip and you're like, well, I was believing some crazy s**t there for a while. That was kind of weird. But I never really had that because I never really believed a thing. It was more like observing my existing beliefs and then sort of taking them as object. Sort of no longer finding them to be like an absolute thing about reality, but rather like sort of a construction that I was already doing. And that I hold to all of it. I think everything that I experienced tripping was valuable in that way and led me to where I am now.Dwarkesh Patel 0:18:51What were the downsides? How is your personality change? Is there a downside you can identify in the deconstruction? It was just like so overwhelmingly worth it. I mean, the experience itself was often quite painful. And I was pretty non-functional during the time I was taking a lot and for like about a year afterwards.Aella 0:18:58So that was a downside. I would happily pay that downside several times over. But it wasn't like the most rewarding experience. I think it was like the most rewarding experience. I mean, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,Dwarkesh Patel 0:19:18you had that tweet recently about how you experienced executive dysfunction sometimes. And then there's a story about you working at 50 five hours a week at the factory when you were 19, right?Aella 0:19:29Yeah.Dwarkesh Patel 0:19:30So is do you think that might be because this I can elitist or executive disruption?Aella 0:19:34when I worked at the factory.Dwarkesh Patel 0:19:35But you were just working 55 hours a week anyways?Aella 0:19:37Yeah, well, I was horrible. I remember being at that factory and being really confused about the way other people were there. I was like, this is clearly not what I wanna do with my life. This is actively terrible. But other people were like, oh, I've been here 10 years and this is just fine.Dwarkesh Patel 0:19:56And I was not doing well.Aella 0:19:57I think I'm pretty, Jess would be like, we're pretty smart. But I was scoring really low in my accuracy and speed at the factory. And I think this is an example of my executive dysfunction issues. And even when I wasn't working at the factory, it was not very productive at all.Dwarkesh Patel 0:20:12What do you think is the difference between psychology between you and those people? Was it just that they enjoyed it more or they just were able to suppress the boredom? Or what do you think happened?Aella 0:20:22Yeah, I'm not sure. Part of it might be just they, maybe if I had just done it for some more years, I would have adjusted. But also, I don't know, I had been homeschooled and I think maybe school prepares you, like normal school prepares you better for a job like that. But you just have to sit and do tasks you don't want to for the entire day.Dwarkesh Patel 0:20:41So, I don't know.Aella 0:20:44I do think also just my brain's different. I seem to be extremely novelty-oriented compared to most people. And my guess is that just made me really not, and just attention, my attention is terrible.Dwarkesh Patel 0:20:56Speaking of which, if you were homeschooling your kids, or I guess if you were raising kids, what does their schooling look like? What kinds of decisions do they get to make when? Do you have some sense of how would you raise a child?Aella 0:21:08I'm not sure, I think maybe unschooling.Dwarkesh Patel 0:21:10Yeah.Aella 0:21:11I'm leaning more and more in that direction. My school wasn't great. The quality of it wasn't excellent. It also, I was forced to learn things I didn't want to, but at least it wasn't a huge part of my life. And the things that, now when I look back on my childhood, the things that feel the most valuable for me to have learned was almost entirely stuff that I did myself. On my off time, the learning that I performed by my own incentive, that's what stuck with me. That's what feels like it lasted. And so I'm like, s**t, if that's the case, I should just let my kids learn what the f**k they want, and just enable them, right? Put interesting things around them, and give them a project, if you wanna do this project, you're gonna have to learn these skills in order to do it.Dwarkesh Patel 0:21:51Well, what are some examples?Aella 0:21:53Of projects?Dwarkesh Patel 0:21:54Things you taught yourself when you were a kidAella 0:21:55that you thought were invaluable.Dwarkesh Patel 0:21:56Well, I read a huge amount,Aella 0:21:58which I think led to me being a good writer today. I just read books about things, I don't know. I learned juggling, a lot of physical comedy stuff. I did some movies, some short movies. You know, something like that.Dwarkesh Patel 0:22:15Could you juggle right now? I'm not asking you to.Aella 0:22:17I could, not super well, but a lot of random little skills, which have turned out to be much more relevantDwarkesh Patel 0:22:23to my life than before. Yeah, yeah, interesting.Aella 0:22:26But also, I remember I read psychology books. Just stuff that, in hindsight, psychology books about personality.Dwarkesh Patel 0:22:33I really liked that. I mean, it sounds like you probably didn't have a TV in your Christian fundamentalist house. Oh, we did.Aella 0:22:39We just had TV Guardian installed on it.Dwarkesh Patel 0:22:41Gotcha. So, could you just have watched TV the entire day if you wanted to, or was that not an option? I'm wondering if the voracious reader was because of all the other options were cut off, or you could have just explored?Aella 0:22:53Oh, no, I was obsessed with the reading, yeah. No, not because other options were cut off.Dwarkesh Patel 0:22:57Yeah, yeah, yeah.Aella 0:22:58I made it a vice to read in the shower, because I didn't like showering without reading.Dwarkesh Patel 0:23:03It just took too long without reading.Aella 0:23:06I would read by moonlight after my parents to turn off the lights. When we were driving in the car, you'd hold up the book to read by the headlights of the person behind you.Dwarkesh Patel 0:23:13Yeah, yeah, sounds like an addiction. Yeah.Aella 0:23:16I read about, for a while, I was reading about a novel a day.Dwarkesh Patel 0:23:20Hmm, was it science fiction or fantasy?Aella 0:23:22Anything I could get my hands on.Dwarkesh Patel 0:23:23Yeah, yeah, yeah. How did you get your hands on it? Was there a library nearby?Aella 0:23:28No, well, I would just reread what I had a lot.Dwarkesh Patel 0:23:30Uh-huh.Aella 0:23:31And just, I would get books as gifts for Christmas,Dwarkesh Patel 0:23:36because clearly that was my priority. Right, right, yeah. Do you think that the ratio of submissives and dominance has changed over time? If you went back 50 years, do you think there'd be more dominance than submissives, or even more so, or?Aella 0:23:50Well, my one hypothesis is tied to testosterone, and if testosterone levels have actually been decreasing over time, then this would cause people to get more submissive.Dwarkesh Patel 0:23:59Yeah.Aella 0:24:00So maybe.Dwarkesh Patel 0:24:02Berne Hovart had this interesting theory, where he was pointing out, it's possible that the decline in testosterone we've seen, that's not just the last 50 years, it's been going on for hundreds or thousands of years. So if you went back to the ancient Greeks, they just steroided up men.Aella 0:24:16Like masks. Yeah. That's such a funny idea. But if that were true, would we be seeing a decline in testosterone over the last, I don't know how many decades,Dwarkesh Patel 0:24:28enough to notice? I don't know how you would notice that. You would maybe notice that there's fewer wars, which it is the case, there's fewer wars. I mean.Aella 0:24:38How do we know that testosterone has been decreasing?Dwarkesh Patel 0:24:40Is it just? Oh yeah, we measure the blood concentration, right?Aella 0:24:42Okay, okay, yeah.Dwarkesh Patel 0:24:44I'm assuming. That's what I thought.Aella 0:24:45So it's gotta be over the last few decades, right?Dwarkesh Patel 0:24:47Yeah, yeah, but we don't know. We don't have any data before that.Aella 0:24:50Yeah, but we know the rate of change,Dwarkesh Patel 0:24:52so we could like. Yeah. Well yeah, I mean it wasn't infinite in history,Aella 0:24:57so at some point it's like.Dwarkesh Patel 0:24:58I know.Aella 0:24:59Kind of like, kind of peaked, right?Dwarkesh Patel 0:25:01Yeah.Aella 0:25:02Oh. Yeah, I don't know. I really don't. I should have the data now to look, because I did a survey for people on hormone replacement therapy. To see if people who've started testosterone report. Yeah. And I did find that. But it is a little confusing, because you don't know how much of it is like, narrative or culturally induced. Like, if you're expected to become more masculine when you take testosterone. Like, is this like, psychologically making you believe that you are more interested in being dominant? It's unclear. So I incorporated a question into my survey recently. Like, just the last minute, honestly. Asking just like, are you on HRT? If so, how long?Dwarkesh Patel 0:25:37Yeah.Aella 0:25:38So I should be able to just see if that correlatesDwarkesh Patel 0:25:40with just interest in dominance. Yeah. It would also be interesting to see, another question might be, what age are you? And when you were 20, were you more dominant than submissive?Aella 0:25:53And then- Oh, to see if it changes over time?Dwarkesh Patel 0:25:54Or you would just have, if a 60 year old was really dominant when he was 20, then you'd know that, I don't know, 60 year old. People who were born in 1980 or something. Yeah.Aella 0:26:03Oh, you mean like, if it's correlated with age?Dwarkesh Patel 0:26:05Yeah. Or just like, if people born earlier were more dominant.Aella 0:26:08I found like, a surprisingly lack of correlations with age. Interesting. I mean, yeah, I could put my laptop on my lapDwarkesh Patel 0:26:14and then look at the correlations live here, but. Do you think weird fetishes, like the weirdest stuff, is that a modern thing? Or if you went back 500 years, people would have been into that kind of s**t? Yeah, I think so.Aella 0:26:25It's just like, the really weird stuff is very rare. Like we're talking like 1%, 0.1%. Like, I mean, it's correlated with rarity. Like the weirder it is, the more rare it is.Dwarkesh Patel 0:26:34Kind of necessarily, because if people had it,Aella 0:26:36then everybody would be like, oh, this is normal. But yeah, my guess is that it's like,Dwarkesh Patel 0:26:39has something to do with like a randomAella 0:26:42early childhood neonatal thing. And like, I haven't been able to find any correlates with childhood stuff, which makes me think it's more innate. And if it's more innate, then it's more likely to have existed for a very long time.Dwarkesh Patel 0:26:53Yeah, yeah. And people who just had weirder and more different experiences in the past. Like if you're just in some sort of cult without any sort of internet or any other sort of experience with the outside world. I don't know, the volatility of your kinks might've just been more, I don't know. Is that possible?Aella 0:27:11Well, the data seems to suggest it's not really based on experience.Dwarkesh Patel 0:27:14Yeah.Aella 0:27:15Mostly, I mean, there's like some small exceptions. Interesting. But, so no, also I'm like, I'm not sure that experience was more varied in the past. Like maybe, like the internet is kind of homogenizing, but.Dwarkesh Patel 0:27:29So, since the FTX saga happened, people have discovered Caroline Ellison's blog. I don't know if you've seen this on Twitter. And now she's become, you know, every nerd's crush because of her online writing.Aella 0:27:40Oh, really? I mostly just see people dunking on her.Dwarkesh Patel 0:27:43Oh yeah, well, there's both, there's both. Do people, this probably wasn't in your kinks survey, but in just general, what is your suspicion about, do people find verbal ability and, you know, that kind of ability very attractive based on online writing or, is that a good signal you can send?Aella 0:28:02I mean, yes, like intelligence and competence is pretty attractive across the board.Dwarkesh Patel 0:28:07So if you're signaling that you're smart. You can signal that by just, I don't know, having a college degree from an impressive university, right, but.Aella 0:28:15I mean, it's like kind of better signal.Dwarkesh Patel 0:28:17Yeah, yeah.Aella 0:28:18Like people who have college degrees from impressive universities, I don't think are really that smart.Dwarkesh Patel 0:28:23Yeah.Aella 0:28:24And like probably like actually demonstrating like direct smartness is a lot more convincing.Dwarkesh Patel 0:28:30Yeah, yeah.Aella 0:28:31So it makes sense.Dwarkesh Patel 0:28:32I think her writing is funny and good. You had this really interesting post. I forgot the title of it, but it was a recent one about how the guys who are being authentic are more attractive.Aella 0:28:44Yeah. The thing that like I noticed while I was doing this, that I was attracted to,Dwarkesh Patel 0:28:49was like somebody like,Aella 0:28:50like sort of being independent of my perspective. Like a lot of time in, when I'm like talking to a guy who I can tellDwarkesh Patel 0:28:56is attracted to me and he's like, I don't know.Aella 0:28:59Like there's a way where he's like trying to orient himself to be what I want. Like very subconsciously, I think, or like subtly in body language, like mirroring, for example, like if I like sit one way and then he sits that way, I'm like, okay, this is an example of like trying to orient yourself into like the kind of person that is going to like be, make me attracted to you. Yeah. I was just like a reasonable strategy. You know, I'm not begrudging anybody this, but I think like women in general are kind of, like it's sort of like an arms race between the genders. And I think women are really attuned to this. Like women are like really good at like sussing out how much authenticity is going on. And so in this experience, when the guy was like talking to me, like some part I noticed that I was like meditating on my experience and connection with this person or these people, I noticed that some part of my brain was like, just like checking like really hard. Like, do I think this person is like masking anything at all right now?Dwarkesh Patel 0:29:54Or is he like unashamed about what he is? Sort of thing. I guess I still understand if somebody is attracted to you, they're going to maybe mirror your body language. What is the way they do that in which they're masking? And what is the way they're doing that in which they're being honest about their intentions? Is it, how does their body language change?Aella 0:30:17Like usually what you are is like quiet and flattering to somebody else. Like when I was like doing this workshop, like people were saying things to me that would typically be considered faux pas. And make people not attracted to you. Like somebody's expressing that they wanted to hurt me,Dwarkesh Patel 0:30:33for example.Aella 0:30:38But like I would prefer somebody do that or something.Dwarkesh Patel 0:30:42Say that they want to or? Yeah. Not to it.Aella 0:30:45Well, not actually hurt me. I prefer not to be hurt most of the time. But there's something like, like there's a way when somebody is like attracted to me and like doing a modified thing. It feels like, one, I don't get to actually know what's going on with them. Like I don't get to see them. I'm seeing like a machine designed to make me feel a certain way. And this is like scary because I don't know what's going on. And I don't know who you are. Like I don't know what's going to happen once you finally have like come and no longer want me anymore. And like somebody who, and it also like is like, my cynic side interprets it as like a dominance thing. Like if you actually don't need me, if your self-worth is not dependent on me whatsoever, if this is like truly an equal game, then you aren't going to need to modify yourself at all. You can just like be who you are, alienate me, like be at risk of alienating me and then f*****g alienate me and you're going to be 100% fine. And like, that's hot. That's hot because like when a guy can signal he doesn't need me, this means that he's like a higher rank than me,Dwarkesh Patel 0:31:51like equal or higher. Yeah. No, okay, so that doesn't sound like authenticity then but it sounds just like how badly do you want me? You know what I mean? Like how, yeah, how eager are you?Aella 0:32:03Well, it's like, it's kind of like a loop or something. Like it's hot to not want somebody, but it's hot because you actually have to not want them. Like it's hot to not have somebody like be trying to get something from youDwarkesh Patel 0:32:17for their purposes.Aella 0:32:19Like just don't conceal.Dwarkesh Patel 0:32:20Right.Aella 0:32:21Like, and even if the thing you're not concealing is like a desperate burning desire, if you're like, man, I just like really would want to bang you and I'm like afraid of what you think of me. And, but I'm like, I want you so bad. Like that's hotter than trying to hide the fact that you're doing it.Dwarkesh Patel 0:32:35Yeah.Aella 0:32:36Yeah. I would like, I would consider banging a guy who's just like laid it all out because like by laying it all out, you're like offering up yourself to be rejected. This means that you're like, you're going to be okay even if I reject you.Dwarkesh Patel 0:32:48And like, that's the, so nice. I wonder how universal that is. Like you go to the average girl and you're just like, I really want to just f**k your face or something. What would happen?Aella 0:32:58I mean, it would probably be polarizing. Yeah. The thing is like by being honest, like you might actually make yourself be rejected. Like the point is not like if you're doing it to be accepted, like that's defeating the purpose. Like you just like offer yourself up and they accept you or they reject you. It's like the stupid f*****g annoying Buddhist concept where like by not trying you get the thing, but you have to like actually not try. You have to actually be in touch with the negative outcome and be like, this is real. And which just happened. Like there, like I probably wouldn't f**k a lot of the guys that I talked to despite non-concealing, but like I still, when they were like open and honest, it still like put them into a frame where they could have been sexual. Whereas like before I was like, you're not even in my landscape of like a potential partner. But like by being honest, I was like, now I'm actually doing the evaluation, like actively doing it and considering you in a sexual way, which was like a big leap.Dwarkesh Patel 0:33:51Yeah, yeah. The Buddhist guy to pick up artistry.Aella 0:33:54I'm like, that's a great, that'd be a great book.Dwarkesh Patel 0:33:57What is charisma? When you notice somebody is being charismatic, like what is happening? Is that body language? Is that internal? And I guess more fundamentally, what is it that you're signaling about yourself when you're being charismatic?Aella 0:34:11I mean, like charismatic, charisma can probably refer to a lot of things, but like the concept that I'm mapping it onto is something like when they make me think that they like me in a way that feels like not needy. And you can break it down into like body language signaling or like social moves. But I think like the core of it is like, like you know when you enter a party and like there's somebody who like is like fun to be around and they really like you, or it seems like they're like welcoming or like, ah, hey, you know, they put you on the back, they make a joke and then they like,Dwarkesh Patel 0:34:43you know, flitter off and you're like, ah, that's that person. Yeah. In movies, TV shows, games, what is the most inaccurate, what do they get most wrong about sex and relationships? What is the trope that's most wrong about this?Aella 0:34:58Well, I mean, okay, I'm, I have a personal pedestal, which might be like slightly besides your question, but like the f*****g monogamy thing. Like I get, I'm down if people want to do monogamy, but it's always, it's like 100% monogamy. And cheating is like always like the worst possible thing ever and that bothers me. I just wish there was a little bit of occasionally, once in a while, there's like, you know, we call it monoplot. My, I have a friend who yelled like monoplot every time there's like a plot, lining in a story that is, could be resolved by being just likeDwarkesh Patel 0:35:32slightly less monogamous.Aella 0:35:34And I'm like, every plot's a monoplot, like you don't even have to be full poly, you just have to like have like a slight amount of flexibility, like, oh, well, then just bring me over for a threesome. Like, but that's not even on the table. I'm like, not, well, not only is it not on the table, but like, it feels like it doesn't represent the general population either. Like around 5% of people are polyamorous and probably like 15 to 30% are like, would be like open to some kind of exploration, like a little bit of looseness, which where is that in media? Nowhere, drives me crazy.Dwarkesh Patel 0:36:01But what you're saying is you take Ross's side and they were on a break. Have you seen Friends?Aella 0:36:06No.Dwarkesh Patel 0:36:07Okay, nevermind. It's a joke. The plot basically of the show, Money Seasons, was that one of the main characters thought he was on a break with his girlfriend and cheated on her or not. He had sex with somebody else. And that was just basically the plot for like three seasons.Aella 0:36:22Oh man. So you've engaged in activities,Dwarkesh Patel 0:36:26which are most likely to change a person, you know, psychedelics, you know, stuff relating to sex. How much do you think people can change? Because you're on like the spectrum of the things that are most likely to change you. You think people can fundamentally change?Aella 0:36:43No, I mean, like, it's like a weird question, but like, no. Like if I had to give a simplistic answer, like I think I'm very much the person that I was when I was a child or a teenager. I think it's like innate stuff is like really strong. Like I have a friend who was adopted, but happened to know both of his adoptive and his biological father, fathers. And so I asked like, what, like, who are you more like? Like which one impacted you more? And he says that he just has the temperament of his biological father, but like all of like the weird quirks and hangups of his adopted one. And I think like when it comes like temperament or like your base brain functioning in general, like this is like much more persistent and less open to change than most people think. Like, I think I'm basically the same as I was pre psychedelics,Dwarkesh Patel 0:37:29except with like a lot of maturity over timeAella 0:37:33being added on.Dwarkesh Patel 0:37:35So your mission to experience every single experience out there, is that, that's not geared towards changing your personality anyway. It just.Aella 0:37:43No, yeah.Dwarkesh Patel 0:37:44Yeah, yeah. But you're not, you say you can't remember many of these. So what is motivating it? Like it's not to remember it, it's not to change yourself. What is the-Aella 0:37:53Curiosity? I'm just very curious.Dwarkesh Patel 0:37:56I don't know what it's like. Yeah. But it's weird, right? Because when you're curious about something, you hope to understand it and then internalize it. Like if I'm curious about an idea, it would be weird if I like read the book and I forgot about it. It wouldn't feel satisfying to my curiosity.Aella 0:38:11Yeah, well, there's some, like I think a lot of the way people operate is like sometimes you read a book and you might forget the book, but the book like updates your priors. Like the book like describes some way that the world like history worked in the war. And then you sort of like, kind of update your predictions about like the kinds of things that caused war and the kinds of reactions people have. And you forget the book, but you hold the priors. I think that's still really valuable. And I think like a lot of that has happened to me. Like I may have forgotten the experience themselves specifically, but it updated my model of the world. And also like my model of how I react and what I'm capable of. Like I went through like a lot of, you know, intense pain and suffering with psychedelics. And I maybe have forgotten that, but like there's some like deep sense of safety I have now around experiencing pain and grief that like I just carry with me all the time. So like it like sort of molded. And I know that I said that people don't really change, but I mean, that was like a little bit offhanded. Like there's obviously ways people grow. Like obviously people, you're very different from yourself, you know, seven years ago or whatever.Dwarkesh Patel 0:39:08Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I hope that's the case that you're updating your priors. Cause that would mean that all the books I don't remember, should they have like in some sense been useful to me, but I suspect that that might just be co-op on my end and it's like gone forever.Aella 0:39:23I doubt it. I mean, did you have like any sort of like, ah, that sentence when you were reading the books?Dwarkesh Patel 0:39:28Yeah.Aella 0:39:30That's probably still there.Dwarkesh Patel 0:39:32Hopefully, hopefully. You've done a bunch of internet polls, many of them in statistically significant. What advice do you have for political pollsters based on?Aella 0:39:42I don't really follow political pollsters. I don't know. I mean, advice for polls in generalDwarkesh Patel 0:39:48is just have better wording.Aella 0:39:49Like I'm really surprised. I was, I mean, again, I'm taking a side note, but like I went, I want to include some big five questionsDwarkesh Patel 0:39:56in my really big survey.Aella 0:39:58And I understand that the way that they selectDwarkesh Patel 0:40:00big five questions is just,Aella 0:40:02as far as I know, like factor analysis, you just pick the most predictive questions. So it's not like people were like, ah, this is the question, but still like the wording of the questions was terrible. Like it's so much easier to make clearer questions. And I did use the big five questions. I forget exactly what they were, but I'm just like, is this what's going on with surveys in general? Like you don't want to, you want to be careful when you have a question to have it as worded so that people take them as homogenous a meaning from it as possible. But most of the other polls I see in other surveys and other research, it's like people just sort of thought of a good question and kind of slapped it down and never really deeply dug into like studied how people respond to this question, which I think is probably my best comparative advantage is that I've had like a really massive amount of experience over many years and thousands of polls to see exactly how your wording can be misinterpreted in every possible way. And so right now I think probably my best skill is like knowing how to write something to be as like very precise as possible.Dwarkesh Patel 0:41:02Yeah. How do you come up with these polls by the way? You just have an interesting question that comes up in a discussion or?Aella 0:41:07Often it's with discussions with friends. Like we'll be talking about something and somebody brings up like a concept or a what if. And I just have like a module in my brain now that translates everything to potential Twitter polls. So like whenever something like generates a concept,Dwarkesh Patel 0:41:20I'll go put that in a poll. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey guys, I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. If you are, I would really, really appreciate it if you could share the episode with other people who you think might like it. This is still a pretty small podcast. So it's basically impossible for me to exaggerate how much it helps out when one of you shares the podcast. You know, put the episode in the group chat you have with your friends, post it on Twitter, send it to somebody who you think might like it. All of those things helps out a ton. Anyways, back to the conversation. I found it surprising you've been tweeting about your saga of learning and applying different statistical tools in Python. And I found it surprising, don't you have like a thousand nerdy reply guys who would be happy to help you out? How is this not a soft problem?Aella 0:42:16People are not good at helping you learn Python.Dwarkesh Patel 0:42:18At least not good at helping you.Aella 0:42:20At least not good at helping me learn Python. There are some people who are really good, but sometimes when I'm trying to learn Python, it's like at 3 a.m. and they're all sleeping. So I'm not saying that like everybody, I have some people who are like really excellentDwarkesh Patel 0:42:30at understanding and responding to me.Aella 0:42:31But when I'm tweeting, usually it's like, I don't wanna bother them or they're on break or something. And I have a chat where people help me, but often it's very frustrating. Because I, they just like, they're trying to explain, what I want, the way that I like to learn is, you just give me the code, give me the code that I know works. I do it, I test it, I see it, whether it works. And after that, then I go throughDwarkesh Patel 0:42:51and I try to understand the code.Aella 0:42:52But what people wanna do is they wanna explain to meDwarkesh Patel 0:42:54how it works before they do it.Aella 0:42:55Or, and it's not really their fault, but it's like there's the unfortunate thing where if somebody wants to help you do a problem, usually they have to go do a little bit of research themselves because programming is such a wide, vast landscape. Like people just don't offhandedly know the answer to your question. And so it requires a bit of work on their part. And it requires them being like, oh, maybe it's this. And then they post a bit of code. And, but you don't know, I try it and like it doesn't work. And they're like, ah, well, I'll try this other thing. And then it becomes like a collaborative problem solving process, which is like more annoying to me. I mean, it's necessary. I'm not saying it's their fault at all. It's like my fault for being annoyed. But I just want like, give me the answer. And then we can go through the whole like questions about it.Dwarkesh Patel 0:43:32Have you tried using CoPilot by the way? I haven't.Aella 0:43:34You got it.Dwarkesh Patel 0:43:35Yeah.Aella 0:43:36It's gonna solve all your problems.Dwarkesh Patel 0:43:37That's what people said. Yeah. It's like the ultimate. Okay. Autocompletor. It's like basically what you're asking for.Aella 0:43:42I was like trying to like look into it recently,Dwarkesh Patel 0:43:44but this is like the push that I need to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had heard about it too. And then my friend is just like, I'm gonna watch you install CoPilot right now. Don't say you're gonna install it. And yeah, it's been very valuable.Aella 0:43:57That's good. That's a useful anecdote.Dwarkesh Patel 0:43:59Yeah, yeah. I found your post about hanging out with elites really interesting.Aella 0:44:05Hanging out with elites, yeah. Do you, and I was wondering,Dwarkesh Patel 0:44:08is it possible that all the elites feel the same way about being there that you did? They're all like, this is kind of bizarre and boring. And I guess I'll just try to fit in. You know, is that possible? Or do you think they were actually different?Aella 0:44:22I guess it's probably a little of both. Like I wouldn't be surprised if everybody else felt it more than I thought. But also I would be surprisedDwarkesh Patel 0:44:28if everybody else felt it as much as me.Aella 0:44:30Because like when I do have like, it seems like I do have a like actually very different background than most of the people. And most of the people I asked about their backgrounds and they usually come from like much wealthier familiesDwarkesh Patel 0:44:41than I did.Aella 0:44:42Like went to school. Usually that's a big thing.Dwarkesh Patel 0:44:43They went to college. That's a huge, big, to me,Aella 0:44:47like if you're in my group or not in my group,Dwarkesh Patel 0:44:48is did you go to college? Yeah. And I feel like much more at ease with people who didn't. But when you're talking about these boring conversations, I know you were calling them. Do you think that they also thought it was boring, but that they were supposed to have those conversations? Or do you think they were actually enjoying it?Aella 0:45:01I don't know. Like recently I was at a party and I was like, okay, I'm not, I'm just staying at this party, but like, okay, let's take matters into our own hands. I'm just gonna run up to groups of peopleDwarkesh Patel 0:45:11and ask them like the weirdest question I can think of.Aella 0:45:14And then, and in my mind, I was like, okay, if I'm standing up there, standing at a party and somebody runs up to me with a weird question, I'd be like, f**k yes, let's go. Like, okay, I would like respond with a weirder question. I'd be like, let's dig into this. You know, I would be so f*****g thrilled. And so I was at this party, what I would consider to be like in the crowds of elite. It was like a little bit of a, it was like a party, less like a cocktail thing where people like be smart at each other and more like a get drunk and dance thing. But it was still like a much higher end kind of, so tickets were like really expensive. So I went around, I ran, I asked a whole bunch of people weird questions and just, like people obviously were like down to participate in like somebody trying to initiate conversation with them. But like the resulting conversations were not interesting at all.Dwarkesh Patel 0:45:57I was shocked with like how few conversationsAella 0:46:01were interesting. It was just people,Dwarkesh Patel 0:46:02it was just like, there was nothing there.Aella 0:46:05And I'm like, are you not all desperate to like cling on to something more fascinating than what's currently happening? It seemed like they weren't. I just got that impression.Dwarkesh Patel 0:46:12But do you think they were enjoying what they were doing?Aella 0:46:15That you mean just the normal conversation? Yeah. I think so. If they weren't, they would be searching for something else, right?Dwarkesh Patel 0:46:21That's not obvious to me. Like people can sometimes just be super complacent and they're just like a status quo bias. Or they're just like, I don't wanna do anything too shocking.Aella 0:46:28Yeah, but if I'm handing them shocking on a platter, I run up to them. They didn't even have to do anything. I just like walk into the, I interrupt their conversation. I'm like, here's something.Dwarkesh Patel 0:46:36What is an example?Aella 0:46:38Like, like, like, you know, like what's the most controversial opinion you have?Dwarkesh Patel 0:46:43You just walk in like Peter Thiel.Aella 0:46:44Is that what he does?Dwarkesh Patel 0:46:46Oh, well, he has this, there's a famous Peter Thiel question about what is something you believe that nobody else agrees with you on? Or very people agree with you on.Aella 0:46:53Yeah, okay. I didn't know that, but yeah. My version is like, what's the most controversial? And then usually I say either like in the circle people discussingDwarkesh Patel 0:47:01or like people at this party.Aella 0:47:02And it's shocking how many people are like, I don't have a controversial opinion on. How do you, like out of all culture, like you think that this culture is the one that's 100% right and you don't agree with all of it? Like out of all of history, you think in like 500 years, we're gonna look back and be like, ah, yes, 2022, that was the year.Dwarkesh Patel 0:47:19So in their defense, I think what could be going on is you just have a bunch of beliefs and you just haven't categorized them, indexed them in terms of controversial or not controversial. And so on the spot, it just like you gotta search through every single belief you have. Like, is that controversial? Is that controversial?Aella 0:47:37Yeah, but you can make allowances for it. Like sometimes people are like, ooh, I don't know like which one is the most, you know, I'd have to think like.Dwarkesh Patel 0:47:43I have so many.Aella 0:47:44Right, or like, well, I mean, there's some things I disagree on, but they're not sure they're controversial. Like these count. Like there's like a kind of response people give when you know that the thing, the issue is not that they don't have a controversial opinion, but rather that like it's sorting. But like I've talked to people who are like, oh, I don't really have one. And I was like, you mean you don't have any? And I would like pride, like there's nothing that you believe. And they'd be like, no, not really. And like, maybe they were lying, but like usually people are like,Dwarkesh Patel 0:48:12well, I have one, but I'm afraid to say. And like that's. No.Aella 0:48:17Anyway, I don't know. I don't understand.Dwarkesh Patel 0:48:20I wonder if you were more specific, you would get some more controversial takes.Aella 0:48:24Like what's your most controversial opinionDwarkesh Patel 0:48:25like about this thing? Yeah, yeah. What should the age of consent be? You know what I mean?Aella 0:48:29Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I do questions like that,Dwarkesh Patel 0:48:31but I like the controversial one is a good opener.Aella 0:48:34It's like it gives you a lot of information about the other person. Like it gives you a fresh about what their social group is. But I also like the game. I've started transitioning to a game where I'm like, okay, you have to say a pin you hold. And if anybody in the group disagrees with it, they hold up a hand and you get pointsDwarkesh Patel 0:48:50for the amount of people that hold up a hand. Oh, yeah.Aella 0:48:52And the person who gets the most points wins. Because people have this horrible tendency. Like I'll be like, what's the most controversial opinionDwarkesh Patel 0:48:57that you have in this group?Aella 0:48:59And then they'll say a controversial opinion for the out group. And I'll be like, but does anybody actually disagree with that here? Like, oh, like Trump wasn't as horrible as people say he is.Dwarkesh Patel 0:49:09I'm like. Yeah, no. One interesting twist on that, by the way. Tyler Cowen had a twist on that question in his application for emergent mentors. So everybody's been asking the P.J. Teal question about what do you believe? And nobody else agrees with the most controversial opinion. And so it's kind of priced in at this point. And so Tyler's question on the application was, what is, what do you believe, what is like your most conventional belief? Like what is the thing you hold strongest that most people would agree with you on? And it kind of situates you in terms of what is the, where are you overlapping with the status quo?Aella 0:49:47Like, I feel confused about this. So I would probably say something like gravity is real.Dwarkesh Patel 0:49:52No, exactly. I think he's like looking for. Oh, something like that? You being conventional in a contrarian way. Maybe you just said something weird. Like, I believe that the feeling of the waves on my skin is beautiful and feels great, you know? It just shows you're not answering it in the normal way.Aella 0:50:08Oh, he wants the non-conventional answer.Dwarkesh Patel 0:50:10Yeah, yeah.Aella 0:50:12Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of that question though. Like I'm like not sure that question is like, like the best question to test for non-conventionality.Dwarkesh Patel 0:50:18Yeah, yeah. I would have thought by the way, that high-end escorts would be very familiar with elite culture. Because you watch these movies and these, you know, these escorts are going with rich CEOs at fundraiser dinners and stuff like that. I would have thought that actually the high-end escorts would be like very familiar with elite culture. Is that not the case or?Aella 0:50:38I mean, probably some are, but I'm not. I mean, like I've had a few people offer to take me to public events, but never actually happened. I've never appeared, like been hired to be aroundDwarkesh Patel 0:50:51like a man's social circle.Aella 0:50:53Usually people are very private about that.Dwarkesh Patel 0:50:55That's interesting. Because I would have thought one of the things rich men really probably want to do is signal social status. Probably even, potentially even more than have sex, right?Aella 0:51:04Maybe.Dwarkesh Patel 0:51:05To show that they have beautiful women around them.Aella 0:51:07Yeah, I think my guess is they would be seen as high risk. And I've known other escorts who have in fact been brought to events. So it's not that this doesn't happen, but like, I don't think it happens a lot,Dwarkesh Patel 0:51:17at least based on my experience. No, interesting.Aella 0:51:20It's possible that I'm not like pretty enough. It's possible that like a woman is very beautiful that she might get invited more often.Dwarkesh Patel 0:51:25But my guess is like,Aella 0:51:29like they can't trust that I know enough to be able to pass as an elite in those circles. Like I'm a weirdo sex worker who the f**k knows. Like, am I going to be doing drives in the bathroom? Am I going to be ta

I had a fascinating discussion about Robert Moses and The Power Broker with Professor Kenneth T. Jackson.He's the pre-eminent historian on NYC and author of Robert Moses and The Modern City: The Transformation of New York.He answers:* Why are we so much worse at building things today?* Would NYC be like Detroit without the master builder?* Does it take a tyrant to stop NIMBY?Watch on YouTube. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Read the full transcript here.Follow me on Twitter for updates on future episodes.If you end up enjoying this episode, I would be super grateful if you share it, post it on Twitter, send it to your friends & group chats, and throw it up wherever else people might find it. Can't exaggerate how much it helps a small podcast like mine.A huge thanks to Graham Bessellieu for editing this podcast.Timestamps(0:00:00) Preview + Intro(0:11:13) How Moses Gained Power(0:18:22) Moses Saved NYC?(0:27:31) Moses the Startup Founder?(0:32:34) The Case Against Moses Highways(0:51:24) NIMBYism(1:03:44) Is Progress Cyclical(1:12:36) Friendship with Caro(1:20:41) Moses the Longtermist?.TranscriptThis transcript was produced by a program I wrote. If you consume my podcast via transcripts, let me know in the comments if this transcript was (or wasn't) an adequate substitute for the human edited transcripts in previous episodes.0:00:00 Preview + IntroKenneth Jackson 0:00:00Robert Moses represented a past, you know, a time when we wanted to build bridges and super highways and things that pretty much has gone on. We're not building super highways now. We're not building vast bridges like Moses built all the time. Had Robert Moses not lived, not done what he did, New York would have followed the trail of maybe Detroit. Essentially all the big roads, all the bridges, all the parks, the United Nations, Lincoln Center, the World's Fairs of 1939 and 1964, and hundreds of other things he built. And I think it was the best book I ever read. In broad strokes, it's correct. Robert Moses had more power than any urban figure in American history. He built incredible monuments. He was ruthless and arrogant and honest. Okay.Dwarkesh Patel 0:00:54I am really, really excited about this one. Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Professor Kenneth T. Jackson about the life and legacy of Robert Moses. Professor Jackson is the preeminent historian on New York City. He was the director of the Herbert H. Lehman Center for American History and the Jock Barzun Professor Emeritus of History at Columbia University, where he has also shared the Department of History. And we were discussing Robert Moses. Professor Jackson is the author and editor of Robert Moses and the Modern City, the Transformation of New York. Professor Jackson, welcome to the podcast.Kenneth Jackson 0:01:37Well, thank you for having me. Okay.Dwarkesh Patel 0:01:40So many people will have heard of Robert Moses and be vaguely aware of him through the popular biography of him by Robert Caro, the power broker. But most people will not be aware of the extent of his influence on New York City. Can you give a kind of a summary of the things he was able to get built in New York City?Kenneth Jackson 0:02:03One of the best comparisons I can think of is that our Caro himself, when he compared him to Christopher Wren in London, he said, if you would see his monument, look around. It's almost more easier to talk about what Moses didn't do than what he did do. If you all the roads, essentially all the big roads, all the bridges, all the parks, the United Nations, Lincoln Center, the World's Fairs of 1939 and 1964, and hundreds of other things he built. I mean, he didn't actually do it with his own two hands, but he was in charge. He got it done. And Robert Caro wrote a really great book. I think the book was flawed because I think Caro only looked at Moses's own documents and Moses had a very narrow view of himself. I mean, he thought he was a great man, but I mean, he didn't pay any attention to what was going on in LA very much, for example. But clearly, by any standard, he's the greatest builder in American history. There's nobody really in second place. And not only did he build and spend this vast amount of money, he was in power for a long time, really a half century more or less. And he had a singular focus. He was married, but his personal life was not important to him. He did it without scandal, really, even Caro admits that he really died with less than he started with. So I mean, he wanted power, and boy, did he have power. He technically was subservient to governors and mayors, but since he built so much and since he had multiple jobs, that was part of his secret. He had as many as six, eight, ten different things at once. If the mayor fired him or got rid of him, he had all these different ways, which he was in charge of that the mayor couldn't. So you people were afraid of him, and they also respected him. He was very smart, and he worked for a dollar a year. So what are you going to get him for? As Caro says, nobody is ready to be compared with Robert Moses. In fact, compares him with an act of nature. In other words, the person you can compare him with is God. That's the person. He put the rivers in. He put the hills in. He put the island in. Compare that to Moses, what Moses did. No other person could compare to that. That's a little bit of exaggeration, but when you really think about Robert Moses and you read the Power Broker, you are stunned by the scope of his achievement. Just stunned. And even beyond New York, when we think of the interstate highway system, which really starts in 1954, 55, 56, and which is 40-something thousand miles of interstate highways, those were built by Moses' men, people who had in their young life had worked with the parkways and expressways in and around New York City. So they were ready to go. So Moses and Moses also worked outside New York City, mostly inside New York City, but he achieved so much. So probably you need to understand it's not easy to get things done in New York. It's very, very dense, much twice as dense as any place in the United States and full of neighborhoods that feel like little cities and are little cities and that don't want change even today. A place like Austin, for example, is heavy into development, not New York. You want to build a tall building in New York, you got to fight for it. And the fact that he did so much in the face of opposition speaks a lot to his methods and the way he… How did Moses do what he did? That is a huge question because it isn't happening anymore, certainly not in New YorkDwarkesh Patel 0:06:22City. Yeah. And that's really why I actually wanted to talk to you and talk about this book because the Power Broker was released in 1974 and at the time New York was not doing well, which is to put it mildly. But today the crisis we face is one where we haven't built significant public works in many American cities for decades. And so it's interesting to look back on a time when we could actually get a lot of public works built very quickly and very efficiently and see if maybe we got our characterization of the people at the time wrong. And that's where your 2007 book comes in. So I'm curious, how was the book received 50 years after, or I guess 40 years after the Power Broker was released? What was the reception like? How does the intellectual climate around these issues change in that time?Kenneth Jackson 0:07:18The Power Broker is a stunning achievement, but you're right. The Power Broker colon Robert Moses and the fall of New York. He's thinking that in the 1970s, which is the… In New York's 400-year history, we think of the 1970s as being the bottom. City was bankrupt, crime was going up, corruption was all around. Nothing was working very well. My argument in the subtitle of the 2007 book or that article is Robert Moses and the rise of New York. Arguing that had Robert Moses not lived, not done what he did, New York would have followed the trail of maybe Detroit and St. Louis and Cincinnati and Pittsburgh and most cities in the Northeast and Midwest, which really declined. New York City really hasn't declined. It's got more people now than it ever did. It's still a number one city in the world, really, by most of our standards. It's the global leader, maybe along with London. At one point in the 1980s, we thought it might be Tokyo, which is the largest city in the world, but it's no longer considered competitive with New York. I say London too because New York and London are kind of alone at the top. I think Robert Moses' public works, activities, I just don't know that you could have a New York City and not have expressways. I don't like the Cross Bronx expressway either and don't want to drive on it. How can you have a world in which you can't go from Boston to San Francisco? You had to have it. You have to have some highways and Carroll had it exactly wrong. He talked about Moses and the decline of public transit in New York. Actually what you need to explain in New York is why public transit survived in New York, wherein most other American cities, the only people who use public transit are the losers. Oh, the disabled, the poor and stuff like that. In New York City, rich people ride the subway. It's simply the most efficient way to get around and the quickest. That question needs, some of the things need to be turned on its head. How did he get it done? How did he do it without scandal? I mean, when you think about how the world is in our time, when everything has either a financial scandal or a sexual scandal attached to it, Moses didn't have scandals. He built the White Stone Bridge, for example, which is a gigantic bridge connecting the Bronx to Queens. It's beautiful. It was finished in the late 1930s on time and under budget. Actually a little earlier. There's no such thing as that now. You're going to do a big public works project and you're going to do it on time. And also he did it well. Jones Beach, for example, for generations has been considered one of the great public facilities on earth. It's gigantic. And he created it. You know, I know people will say it's just sand and water. No, no, it's a little more complicated than that. So everything he did was complicated. I mean, I think Robert Caro deserves a lot of credit for doing research on Moses, his childhood, his growing up, his assertion that he's the most important person ever to live in and around New York. And just think of Franklin Roosevelt and all the people who lived in and around New York. And Moses is in a category by himself, even though most Americans have never heard of Robert Moses. So his fame is still not, that book made him famous. And I think his legacy will continue to evolve and I think slightly improve as Americans realize that it's so hard, it's hard to build public works, especially in dense urban environments. And he did it.0:11:13 How Moses Gained PowerDwarkesh Patel 0:11:33Yeah. There's so much to talk about there. But like one of the interesting things from the Power Broker is Caro is trying to explain why governors and mayors who were hesitant about the power that Moses was gaining continued to give him more power. And there's a section where he's talking about how FDR would keep giving him more positions and responsibilities, even though FDR and Moses famously had a huge enmity. And he says no governor could look at the difficulty of getting things built in New York and not admire and respect Moses' ability to do things, as he said, efficiently, on time, under budget, and not need him, essentially. But speaking of scandal, you talked about how he didn't take salary for his 12 concurrent government roles that he was on. But there's a very arresting anecdote in the Power Broker where I think he's 71 and his daughter gets cancer. And for the first time, I think he had to accept, maybe I'm getting the details wrong, but he had to accept salary for working on the World's Fair because he didn't have enough. He was the most powerful person in New York, and he didn't have enough money to pay for his daughter's cancer. And even Caro himself says that a lot of the scandals that came later in his life, they were just kind of trivial stuff, like an acre of Central Park or the Shakespeare in the park. Yeah, it wasn't... The things that actually took him down were just trivial scandals.Kenneth Jackson 0:13:07Well, in fact, when he finally was taken down, it took the efforts of a person who was almost considered the second most powerful person in the United States, David Rockefeller, and the governor of New York, both of whom were brothers, and they still had a lot of Moses to make him kind of get out of power in 1968. But it was time. And he exercised power into his 70s and 80s, and most of it was good. I mean, the bridges are remarkable. The bridges are gorgeous, mostly. They're incredible. The Throgs Neck Bridge, the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, the Triborough Bridge, they're really works of art. And he liked to build things you could see. And I think the fact that he didn't take money was important to it. You know, he was not poor. I wouldn't say he's not wealthy in New York terms, but he was not a poor person. He went to Yale as a Jewish person, and let's say in the early 20th century, that's fairly unusual and he lived well. So we can't say he's poor, but I think that Carol was right in saying that what Moses was after in the end was not sex and not power, and not sex and not money. Power. He wanted power. And boy, did he get it.Dwarkesh Patel 0:14:37Well, there's a good review of the book from, I'm not sure if I remember the last name, but it was Philip Lopgate or something. Low paid, I think.Kenneth Jackson 0:14:45Okay.Dwarkesh Patel 0:14:46And he made a good point, which was that the connotation of the word power is very negative, but it's kind of a modern thing really to have this sort of attitude towards power that like somebody who's just seeking it must necessarily have suspicious motivations. If Moses believed, and in fact, he was probably right in believing that he was just much more effective at building public works for the people that live in New York, was it irrational of him or was it selfish of him to just desire to work 14 hour days for 40 years on end in order to accumulate the power by which he could build more public works? So there's a way of looking at it where this pursuit of power is not itself troubling.Kenneth Jackson 0:15:36Well, first of all, I just need to make a point that it's not just New York City. I mean, Jones Beach is on Long Island. A lot of those highways, the Northern State Parkway, the Southern State Parkway are built outside the city and also big projects, the Power Authority in upstate New York. He also was consultant around the world in cities and transportation. So his influence was really felt far beyond New York City. And of course, New York City is so big and so important. I think also that we might want to think about, at least I think so, what do I say, the counterfactual argument. Can you imagine? I can remember when I was in the Air Force, we lived next door to a couple from New York City. We didn't know New York City at the time. And I can't remember whether she or he was from the Bronx or Brooklyn, but they had they made us understand how incredibly much he must have loved her to go to Brooklyn or the Bronx to see her and pick her up for days and stuff like this. You couldn't get there. I mean, it would take you three hours to go from the Rockaways in Brooklyn to somewhere in the Northern Bronx. But the roads that Moses built, you know, I know at rush hour they're jammed, but you know, right this minute on a Sunday, you can whiz around New York City on these expressways that Moses built. It's hard to imagine New York without. The only thing Moses didn't do was the subway, and many people have criticized him because the subways were deteriorated between the time they were built in the early part of the 20th century in 1974 when Carol wrote to Power Broker. But so had public transit systems all over the United States. And the public transit system in New York is now better than it was 50 years ago. So that trajectory has changed. And all these other cities, you know, Pittsburgh used to have 600,000 people. Now it has 300,000. Cleveland used to have 900,000 and something. Now it's below five. Detroit used to have two million. Now it's 600 something thousand. St. Louis used to have 850,000. Now it's three hundreds. I mean, the steep drop in all these other cities in the Midwest and Northeast, even Washington and even Boston and Philadelphia, they all declined except New York City, which even though it was way bigger than any of them in 1950 is bigger now than it was then. More people crammed into this small space. And Moses had something to do with that.0:18:22 Would NYC Have Fallen Without Moses?Dwarkesh Patel 0:18:22Yeah, yeah, yeah. You write in the book and I apologize for quoting you back to yourself, but you write, had the city not undertaken a massive program of public works between 1924 and 1970, had it not built the arterial highway system and had it not relocated 200,000 people from old law tenements to new public housing projects, New York would not have been able to claim in the 1990s that it was a capital of the 20th century. I would like to make this connection more explicit. So what is the reason for thinking that if New York hadn't done urban renewal and hadn't built the more than 600 miles of highways that Moses built there, that New York would have declined like these other cities in the Northeast and the Midwest?Kenneth Jackson 0:19:05Well, I mean, you could argue, first of all, and friends of mine have argued this, that New York is not like other cities. It's a world city and has been and what happens to the rest of the United States is, I accept a little bit of that, but not all of it. You say, well, New York is just New York. And so whatever happens here is not necessarily because of Moses or different from Detroit, but I think it's important to realize its history has been different from other American cities. Most American cities, especially the older cities, have been in relative decline for 75 years. And in some ways New York has too. And it was its relative dominance of the United States is less now than because there's been a shift south and west in the United States. But the prosperity of New York, the desire of people to live in it, and after all, one of its problems is it's so expensive. Well, one reason it's expensive is people want to live there. If they didn't want to live there, it would be like Detroit. It'd be practically free. You know what I mean? So there are answers to these issues. But Moses' ways, I think, were interesting. First of all, he didn't worry about legalities. He would start an expressway through somebody's property and dare a judge to tell him to stop after the construction had already started. And most of the time, Moses, he was kind of like Hitler. It was just, I don't mean to say he was like Hitler. What I mean is, but you have such confidence. You just do things and dare other people to change it. You know what I mean? I'm going to do it. And most people don't have that. I think there's a little bit of that in Trump, but not as much. I mean, I don't think he has nearly the genius or brains of Moses. But there's something to self-confidence. There's something to having a broad vision. Moses liked cities, but he didn't like neighborhoods or people. In other words, I don't think he loved New York City. Here's the person who is more involved. He really thought everybody should live in suburbs and drive cars. And that was the world of the future. And he was going to make that possible. And he thought all those old law tenements in New York, which is really anything built before 1901, were slums. And they didn't have hot and cold water. They often didn't have bathrooms. He thought they should be destroyed. And his vision was public housing, high-rise public housing, was an improvement. Now I think around the United States, we don't think these high-rise public housing projects are so wonderful. But he thought he was doing the right thing. And he was so arrogant, he didn't listen to people like Jane Jacobs, who fought him and said, you're saying Greenwich Village is a slum? Are you kidding me? I mean, he thought it was a slum. Go to Greenwich Village today. Try to buy anything for under a million dollars. I mean, it doesn't exist. You know what I mean? I mean, Greenwich Village, and he saw old things, old neighborhoods, walking, is hopelessly out of date. And he was wrong. He was wrong about a lot of his vision. And now we understand that. And all around the country, we're trying to revitalize downtowns and reduce our dependence on fossil fuels and gasoline and cars. But Moses didn't see the world that way. It's interesting. He never himself drove a car. Can you believe that the man who had more influence on the American car culture, probably even than Henry Ford, himself was always driven. He was chauffeured. In fact, he was so busy that Carol talks about him as having two limousines behind each other. And he would have a secretary in one, and he would be dealing with business and writing letters and things like this. And then she would have all she could do. They would pull off to the side of the road. She would get out of his car. The car that was following would discharge the secretary in that car. They would switch places. And the fresh secretary would get in the backseat, Moses, and they would continue to work. And the first secretary would go to type up whatever she had to do. He worked all the time. He really didn't have much of a private life. There are not many people like Robert Moses. There are people like Robert Moses, but not so many, and he achieved his ideal. I think that there are so many ironies there. Not only did he not drive himself, he didn't appreciate so much the density of New York, which many people now love, and it's getting more dense. They're building tall buildings everywhere. And he didn't really appreciate the diversity, the toleration. He didn't care about that, but it worked. And I just think we have to appreciate the fact that he did what was impossible, really impossible, and nobody else could have done what he did. And if we hadn't done it then, he sure as heck wouldn't be able to do it in the 21st century, when people are even more litigious. You try to change the color of a door in New York City, and there'll be—you try to do something positive, like build a free swimming pool, fix up an old armory and turn it into a public—there'll be people who'll fight you. I'm not kidding this. And Moses didn't care. He says, I'm going to do this. When he built the Cross Bronx Expressway, which in some ways is—it was horrible what he did to these people, but again, Carol mischaracterizes what happened. But it's a dense working class—let's call it Jewish neighborhood—in the early 1950s. And Roses decides we need an interstate highway or a big highway going right through it. Well, he sent masses of people letters that said, get out in 90 days. He didn't mean 91 days. He meant—he didn't mean let's argue about it for four years. Let's go to legit—Moses meant the bulldozers will be bulldozing. And that kind of attitude, we just don't have anymore. And it's kind of funny now to think back on it, but it wasn't funny to the people who got evicted. But again, as I say, it's hard to imagine a New York City without the Cross Bronx Expressway. They tore down five blocks of dense buildings, tore them down, and built this road right through it. You live—and they didn't worry about where they were going to rehouse them. I mean, they did, but it didn't work. And now it's so busy, it's crowded all the time. So what does this prove? That we need more roads? But you can't have more roads in New York because if you build more roads, what are you going to do with the cars? Right now, the problem is there are so many cars in the city, there's nothing to do. It's easy to get around in New York, but what are you going to do with the car? You know, the car culture has the seeds of its own destruction. You know, cars just parking them or putting them in a garage is a problem. And Moses didn't foresee those. He foreseed you're all going to live in the Long Island suburbs or Westchester suburbs or New Jersey suburbs. Park your car in your house and come in the city to work. Now, the city is becoming a place to live more than a place to work. So what they're doing in New York as fast as they can is converting office buildings into residential units. He would never have seen that, that people would want to live in the city, had options that they would reject a single family house and choose high rise and choose the convenience of going outside and walking to a delicatessen over the road, driving to a grocery store. It's a world he never saw.0:27:31 Moses the Startup Founder?Dwarkesh Patel 0:27:31Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like the thing you pointed out earlier about him having the two limousines and then the enormous work ethic and then the 90 day eviction. I mean, I'm a programmer and I can recognize this trope immediately. Right. Robert Moses was a startup founder, but in government, you know, that attitude is like, yeah, it's like Silicon Valley. That's like we all recognize that.Kenneth Jackson 0:27:54And I think we should we should we should go back to what you said earlier about why was it that governors or mayors couldn't tell him what to do? Because there are many scenes in the power broker where he will go to the mayor who wants to do something else. And Moses would, damn it. He'd say, damn it, throw his pages on the desk and say, sign this. This is my resignation. You know, OK. And I'm out of here because the mayors and governors love to open bridges and highways and and do it efficiently and beautifully. And Moses could do that. Moses could deliver. And the workers loved him because he paid union wages, good wages to his workers. And he got things done and and things like more than 700 playgrounds. And it wasn't just grand things. And even though people criticize the 1964 World's Fair as a failure and financially it was a failure, but still tens of millions of people went there and had a good time. You know, I mean, even some of the things were supposedly were failures. Failures going to home, according to the investment banker, maybe, but not to the people who went there.Dwarkesh Patel 0:29:20Right. Yeah. And I mean, the point about the governors and mayors needing him, it was especially important to have somebody who could like work that fast. If you're going to get reelected in four years or two years, you need somebody who can get public works done faster than they're done today. Right. If you want to be there for the opening. Yeah, exactly.Kenneth Jackson 0:29:36And it's important to realize, to say that Moses did try public office once.Dwarkesh Patel 0:29:41Yeah.Kenneth Jackson 0:29:42And I think it's true that he lost by more than anybody in the history of New York. He was not, you know, he was not an effective public speaker. He was not soft and friendly and warm and cuddly. That's not Robert Moses. The voters rejected him. But the people who had power and also Wall Street, because you had to issue bonds. And one of the ways that Moses had power was he created this thing called the Traverse Bridge and Tunnel Authority to build the Traverse Bridge. Well, now, if in Portland, Oregon, you want to build a bridge or a road, you issue a couple hundred million dollars worth of bonds to the public and assign a value to it. Interest rate is paid off by the revenue that comes in from the bridge or the road or whatever it is. Normally, before, normally you would build a public works and pay for it itself on a user fees. And when the user fees paid it off, it ended. But what Moses, who was called the best bill drafter in Albany, which was a Moses term, he said he was somewhere down in paragraph 13, Section G, say, and the chairman can only be removed for cause. What that meant was when you buy a bond for the Traverse Bridge or something else, you're in a contract, supported by the Supreme Court. This is a financial deal you're making with somebody. And part of the contract was the chairman gets to stay unless he does something wrong. Well, Moses was careful not to do anything wrong. And it also would continue. You would get the bond for the Traverse Bridge, but rather than pay off the Traverse Bridge, he would build another project. It would give him the right to continually build this chain of events. And so he had this massive pot of money from all these initially nickels and dimes. Brazil made up a lot of money, the 30s and 40s and 50s and 60s, to spend more money and build more bridges and build more roads. And that's where he had his power. And the Wall Street, the big business loved him because they're issuing the bonds. The unions loved him because they're paying the investors. Now what Carroll says is that Moses allowed the investors an extra quarter percent, I think a quarter percent or half percent on bonds, but they all sold out. So everybody was happy. And was that crooked? It wasn't really illegal. But it's the way people do that today. If you're issuing a bond, you got to figure out what interest am I going to pay on this that will attract investors now.0:32:34 The Case Against Moses HighwaysDwarkesh Patel 0:32:34And the crucial thing about these tales of graft is that it never was about Moses trying to get rich. It was always him trying to push through a project. And obviously that can be disturbing, but it is a completely different category of thing, especially when you remember that this was like a corrupt time in New York history. It was like after Tammany Hall and so on. So it's a completely different from somebody using their projects to get themselves rich. But I do want to actually talk in more detail about the impact of these roads. So obviously we can't, the current system we have today where we just kind of treat cities as living museums with NIMBYism and historical preservation, that's not optimal. But there are examples, at least of Carroll's, about Moses just throwing out thousands of people carelessly, famously in that chapter on the one mile, how Moses could have diverted the cross Bronx expressway one mile and prevented thousands of people from getting needlessly evicted. So I'm just going to list off a few criticisms of his highway building and then you can respond to them in any order you want. So one of the main criticisms that Carroll makes is that Moses refused to add mass transit to his highways, which would have helped deal with the traffic problem and the car problem and all these other problems at a time when getting the right of way and doing the construction would have been much cheaper. Because of his dislike for mass transit, he just refused to do that. And also the prolific building of highways contributed to urban sprawl, it contributed to congestion, it contributed to neighborhoods getting torn apart if a highway would crossKenneth Jackson 0:34:18them.Dwarkesh Patel 0:34:19So a whole list of criticisms of these highways. I'll let you take it in any order you want.Kenneth Jackson 0:34:27Well first of all, Moses response was, I wasn't in charge of subways. So if you think the subways deteriorated or didn't build enough, find out who was in charge of them and blame that person. I was in charge of highways and I built those. So that's the first thing.Dwarkesh Patel 0:34:41But before you answer that, can I just ask, so on that particular point, it is true that he wasn't in charge of mass transit, but also he wasn't in charge of roads until he made himself responsible for roads, right? So if he chose to, he could have made himself responsible for mass transit and taken careKenneth Jackson 0:34:56of it. Maybe, although I think the other thing about it is putting Moses in a broader historical concept. He was swimming with the tide of history. In other words, history when he was building, was building Ford Motor Company and General Motors and Chrysler Corporation and building cars by the millions. I mean, the automobile industry in the United States was huge. People thought any kind of rail transit was obsolete and on the way out anyway. So let's just build roads. I mean, that's what the public wanted. He built what the public wanted. It's not what I was looking historically. I don't think we did the right thing, but we needed to join the 20th century. New York could have stayed as a quaint, I don't know, quaint is not the right word, but it's a distinctly different kind of place where everybody walks. I just don't think it would have been the same kind of city because there are people who are attached to their cars in New York. And so the sprawl in New York, which is enormous, nobody's saying it wasn't, spreads over 31 counties, an area about as large as the state of Connecticut, about as large as the Netherlands is metropolitan New York. But it's still relatively, I don't want to say compact, but everybody knows where the center is. It's not that anybody grows up in New York at 16 and thinks that the world is in some mall, you know, three miles away. They all know there is a center and that's where it is. It's called Manhattan. And that's New York and Moses didn't change that for all of his roads. There's still in New York a definite center, skyscrapers and everything in the middle. And it's true, public transit did decline. But you know those, and I like Chicago, by the way, and they have a rail transit from O'Hare down to Dan Ryan, not to Dan Ryan, but the JFK Expressway, I think. And it works sort of, but you got to walk a ways to get on. You got to walk blocks to get in the middle of the expressway and catch the train there. It's not like in New York where you just go down some steps. I mean, New York subway is much bigger than Chicago and more widely used and more. And the key thing about New York, and so I think what Carol was trying to explain and your question suggests this, is was Moses responsible for the decline of public transit? Well, he was building cars and roads and bridges. So in that sense, a little bit, yes. But if you look at New York compared to the rest of the United States, it used to be that maybe 20 percent of all the transit riders in the United States were in the New York area. Now it's 40 percent. So if you're looking at the United States, what you have to explain is why is New York different from the rest of the United States? Why is it that when I was chairman or president of the New York Historical Society, we had rich trustees, and I would tell them, well, I got here on a subway or something. They would think, I would say, how do you think I got here? Do you know what I mean? I mean, these are people who are close to billionaires and they're saying they used the subway. If you're in lower Manhattan and you're trying to get to Midtown and it's raining, it's five o'clock, you've got to be a fool to try to get in your own limousine. It isn't going to get you there very quickly. A subway will. So there are reasons for it. And I think Moses didn't destroy public transit. He didn't help it. But his argument was he did. And that's an important distinction, I think. But he was swimming with history. He built what the public wanted. I think if he had built public transit, he would have found it tougher to build. Just for example, Cincinnati built a subway system, a tunnel all through the city. It never has opened. They built it. You can still see the holes in the ground where it's supposed to come out. By the time they built it, people weren't riding trains anymore. And so it's there now and they don't know what to do with it. And that's 80 years ago. So it's a very complicated—I don't mean to make these issues. They're much more complex than I'm speaking of. And I just think it's unfair to blame Moses for the problems of the city. I think he did as much as anybody to try to bring the city into the 21st century, which he didn't live to. But you've got to adopt. You've got to have a hybrid model in the world now. And I think the model that America needs to follow is a model where we reduce our dependence on the cars and somehow ride buses more or use the internet more or whatever it is, but stop using so much fossil fuels so that we destroy our environment. And New York, by far, is the most energy efficient place in the United States. Mainly because you live in tall buildings, you have hot floors. It doesn't really cost much to heat places because you're heating the floor below you and above you. And you don't have outside walls. And you walk. New Yorkers are thinner. Many more people take buses and subways in New York than anywhere else in the United States, not just in absolute terms, in relative terms. So they're helping. It's probably a healthier lifestyle to walk around. And I think we're rediscovering it. For example, if you come to New York between Thanksgiving and Christmas, there's so many tourists in the city. I'm not making this up. That there is gridlock on the sidewalks around. The police have to direct the traffic. And in part, it's because a Detroit grandmother wants to bring her granddaughter to New York to see what Hudson's, which is a great department store in Detroit or in any city. We could be rich as in Atlanta, Fox, G Fox and Hartford. Every city had these giant department and windows where the Santa Claus is and stuff like this. You can still go to New York and see that. You can say, Jane, this is the way it used to be in Detroit. People ringing the bells and looking at the store windows and things like that. A mall can't recapture that. It just can't. You try, but it's not the same thing. And so I think that in a way, Moses didn't not only did he not destroy New York. I think he gets a little bit of credit for saving it because it might have been on the way to Detroit. Again, I'm not saying that it would have been Detroit because Detroit's almost empty. But Baltimore wasn't just Baltimore, it's Cleveland. It's every place. There's nobody there anymore. And even in New York, the department stores have mostly closed, not all of them. And so it's not the same as it was 80 years ago, but it's closer to it than anywhere else.Dwarkesh Patel 0:42:16OK, so yes, I'm actually very curious to get your opinion on the following question. Given the fact that you are an expert on New York history and you know, you've written the encyclopedia, literally written the encyclopedia on New York City.Kenneth Jackson 0:42:30800 people wrote the encyclopedia. I just took all the credit for it.Dwarkesh Patel 0:42:34I was the editor in chief. So I'm actually curious, is Caro actually right that you talked about the importance just earlier about counterfactual history. So I'm curious if Caro is actually right about the claim that the neighborhoods through which Moses built his highways were destroyed in a way that neighborhoods which were in touch by the highways weren't. Sorry for the confusing phrasing there. But basically, was there like a looking back on all these neighborhoods? Is there a clear counterfactual negative impact on the neighborhoods in which Moses built his highways and bridges and so on?Kenneth Jackson 0:43:10Well, Moses, I mean, Caro makes that argument mostly about East Tremont and places like that in the Bronx where the Cross Bronx Expressway passed through. And he says this perfectly wonderful Jewish neighborhood that was not racially prejudiced and everybody was happy and not leaving was destroyed by Moses. Well, first of all, as a historian of New York City, or for that matter, any city, if a student comes to you and says, that's what I found out, you said, well, you know, that runs counter to the experience of every city. So let's do a little more work on that. Well, first of all, if you look at the census tracts or the residential security maps of S.H.A. You know, it's not true. First of all, the Jews were leaving and had nothing to do with the thing. They didn't love blacks. And also, if you look at other Jewish, and the Bronx was called the Jewish borough at the time, those neighborhoods that weren't on the Cross Bronx Expressway all emptied out mostly. So the Bronx itself was a part of New York City that followed the pattern of Detroit and Baltimore and Cleveland. Bronx is now coming back, but it's a different place. So I think it's, well, I've said this in public and I'll pay you for this. Carol wouldn't know those neighborhoods if he landed there by parachute. They're much better than he ever said they were. You know, he acted like if you went outside near the Bronx County Courthouse, you needed a wagon train to go. I mean, I've taken my students there dozens of times and shown them the people, the old ladies eating on the benches and stuff like this. Nobody's mugging them. You know, he just has an outsider's view. He didn't know the places he was writing about. But I think Carol was right about some things. Moses was personally a jerk. You can make it stronger than that, but I mean, he was not your friendly grandfather. He was arrogant. He was self-centered. He thought he knew the truth and you don't. He was vindictive, ruthless, but some of those were good. You know, now his strategies, his strategies in some were good. He made people building a beach or a building feel like you're building a cathedral. You're building something great and I'm going to pay you for it and let's make it good. Let's make it as best as we can. That itself is a real trick. How do you get people to think of their jobs as more than a job, as something else? Even a beach or a wall or something like that to say it's good. He also paid them, so that's important that he does that and he's making improvements. He said he was improving things for the people. I don't know if you want to talk about Jane Jacobs, who was his nemesis. I tend to vote with Jane Jacobs. Jane Jacobs and I agree on a lot of things or did before she died a few years ago. Jane Jacobs saw the city as intricate stores and people living and walking and knowing each other and eyes on the street and all these kinds of things. Moses didn't see that at all. He saw the city as a traffic problem. How do we tear this down and build something big and get people the hell out of here? That was a mistake. Moses made mistakes. What Moses was doing was what everybody in the United States was doing, just not as big and not as ruthless and not as quick. It was not like Moses built a different kind of world that exists in Kansas City. That's exactly what they did in Kansas City or every other city. Blow the damn roads to the black neighborhoods, build the expressway interchanges, my hometown of Memphis crisscrossed with big streets, those neighborhoods gone. They're even more extensive in places like Memphis and Kansas City and New Orleans than they are in New York because New York builds relatively fewer of them. Still huge what he built. You would not know from the power broker that Los Angeles exists. Actually Los Angeles was building freeways too. Or he says that New York had more federal money. Then he said, well, not true. I've had students work on Chicago and Chicago is getting more money per person than New York for some of these projects. Some of the claims, no doubt he got those from Moses' own records. If you're going to write a book like this, you got to know what's going on other places. Anyway, let's go back to your questions.Dwarkesh Patel 0:48:10No, no. That was one of the things I was actually going to ask you about, so I was glad to get your opinion on that. You know, actually, I've been preparing for this interview and trying to learn more about the impact of these different projects. I was trying to find the economic literature on the value of these highways. There was a National Bureau of Economic Research paper by Morgan Foy, or at least a digest by Morgan Foy, where he's talking about the economic gains from highways. He says, the gains tend to be largest in areas where roads connect large economic hubs where few alternative routes exist. He goes on to say, two segments near New York City have welfare benefits exceeding $500 million a year. Expanding the Long Island Expressway had an estimated economic value of $719 million, which I think was Moses. He says, of the top 10 segments with the highest rate of return, seven are in New York City area. It turns out that seven of the top 10 most valuable highway segments in America are in New York. Reading that, it makes me suspect that there must have been... The way Cairo paints Moses' planning process, it's just very impulsive and feelings-based and almost in some cases, out of malice towards poor people. Given that a century later, it seems that many of the most valuable tracks of highways were planned and built exactly how Moses envisioned, it makes you think that there was some sort of actual intelligent deliberation and thought that was put into where they were placed.Kenneth Jackson 0:50:32I think that's true. I'm not saying that the automobile didn't have an economic impact. That's what Moses was building for. He would probably endorse that idea. I think that what we're looking at now in the 21st century is the high value put on places that Moses literally thought were something. He was going to run an expressway from Brooklyn through lower Manhattan to New Jersey and knock down all these buildings in Greenwich Village that people love now. Love. Even movie stars, people crowd into those neighborhoods to live and that he saw it as a slum. Well, Moses was simply wrong and Cairo puts him to task for that. I think that's true.0:51:24 The Rise of NIMBYismDwarkesh Patel 0:51:24Okay. Professor Jackson, now I want to discuss how the process of city planning and building projects has changed since Moses' time. We spent some good amount of time actually discussing what it was like, what Moses actually did in his time. Last year, I believe, you wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal talking about how the 27-story building in Manhattan was put in limbo because the parking lot, which we would replace, was part of a historic district. What is it like to actually build a skyscraper or a highway or a bridge or anything of that sort in today's New York City?Kenneth Jackson 0:52:06Well, I do think in the larger context, it's probably fair to say it's tougher to build in New York City than any other city. I mean, yeah, a little precious suburb, you may not deploy a skyscraper, but I mean, as far as the city is concerned, there'll be more opposition in New York than anywhere else.It's more dense, so just to unload and load stuff to build a building, how do you do that? You know, trucks have to park on the street. Everything is more complicated and thus more expensive. I think a major difference between Robert Moses' time and our own, in Robert Moses' time, historic preservation was as yet little known and little understood and little supported. And the view generally was building is good, roads are good, houses are good, and they're all on the way to a more modern and better world. We don't have the same kind of faith in the future that they did. We kind of like it like it is. Let's just sit on it. So I think we should say that Moses had an easier time of it than he would have had he lived today. It still wasn't an easy time, but easier than today. Yeah.Dwarkesh Patel 0:53:40Well, actually, can you talk more about what that change in, I guess, philosophy has been since then? I feel like that's been one of the themes of this podcast, to see how our cultural attitude towards progress and technology have changed.Kenneth Jackson 0:53:54Well, I think one reason why the power broker, Robert Carroll's famous book, received such popular acclaim is it fits in with book readers' opinions today, which is old is better. I mean, also, you got to think about New York City. If you say it's a pre-war apartment, you mean it's a better apartment. The walls are solid plaster, not fiber or board and stuff like that. So old has a reverence in New York that doesn't have in Japan. In Japan, they tear down houses every 15 years. So it's a whole different thing. We tend to, in this new country, new culture, we tend to value oldness in some places, especially in a place that's old like New York City. I mean, most Americans don't realize that New York is not only the most dense American city and the largest, but also really the oldest. I mean, I know there's St. Augustine, but that's taking the concept of what's a city to a pretty extreme things. And then there's Jamestown and Virginia, but there's nobody there, literally nobody there. And then where the pilgrims landed in Massachusetts, Plymouth plantation, that's totally rebuilt as a kind of a theme park. So for a place that's a city, it's Santa Fe a little bit in New Mexico, but it was a wide place on the road until after World War II. So the places that would be also, if you think cities, New York is really old and it's never valued history, but the historic preservation movement here is very strong.Dwarkesh Patel 0:55:33What is the reason for its resurgence? Is it just that, because I mean, it's had a big impact on many cities, right? Like I'm in San Francisco right now, and obviously like you can't tear down one of these Victorian houses to build the housing that like the city massively needs. Why have we like gained a reverence for anything that was built before like 80 years?Kenneth Jackson 0:55:56Because just think of the two most expensive places in the United States that could change a little bit from year to year, but usually San Francisco and New York. And really if you want to make it more affordable, if you want to drop the price of popsicles on your block, sell more popsicles. Have more people selling popsicles and the price will fall. But somehow they say they're going to build luxury housing when actually if you build any housing, it'll put downward pressure on prices, even at super luxury. But anyway, most Americans don't understand that. So they oppose change and especially so in New York and San Francisco on the basis that change means gentrification. And of course there has been a lot of gentrification. In World War II or right after, San Francisco was a working class city. It really was. And huge numbers of short and longshoremen live there. Now San Francisco has become the headquarters really in Silicon Valley, but a headquarters city is a tech revolution and it's become very expensive and very homeless. It's very complex. Not easy to understand even if you're in the middle of it.Dwarkesh Patel 0:57:08Yeah. Yeah. So if we could get a Robert Moses back again today, what major mega project do you think New York needs today that a Moses like figure could build?Kenneth Jackson 0:57:22Well if you think really broadly and you take climate change seriously, as I think most people do, probably to build some sort of infrastructure to prevent rising water from sinking the city, it's doable. You'd have to, like New Orleans, in order to save New Orleans you had to flood Mississippi and some other places. So usually there is a downside somewhere, but you could, that would be a huge project to maybe build a bridge, not a bridge, a land bridge from Brooklyn to Manhattan to prevent water coming in from the ocean because New York is on the ocean. And to think of something like that's really big. Some of the other big infrastructure projects, like they're talking about another tunnel under the river, Hudson River from New Jersey to New York, the problem with that is there are already too many cars in Manhattan. Anything that makes it easier to bring cars into Manhattan because if you've not been to New York you don't really understand this, but there's no place for anything. And if you bring more cars in, what are you going to do with them? If you build parking garages for all the cars that could come into the city, then you'd be building over the whole city. There'd be no reason to come here because it would all be parking garages or parking lots. So New York City simply won't work if you reduce the density or you get rid of underground transportation because it's all about people moving around underneath the streets and not taking up space as they do it. So it won't work. And of course, it's not the only city. Tokyo wouldn't work either or lots of cities in the world won't work increasingly without not just public transportation but underground public transportation where you can get it out of the way of traffic and stuff like that. Moses probably could have done that. He wouldn't have loved it as much as he loved bridges because he wanted you to see what he built. And there was an argument in the power broker, but he didn't really want the Brooklyn battle very tunnel built because he wanted to build a bridge that everybody could see. So he may not have done it with such enthusiasm. I actually believe that Moses was first and foremost a builder. He really wanted to build things, change things. If you said, we'll pay you to build tunnels, I think he would have built tunnels. Who knows? He never was offered that. That wasn't the time in which he lived. Yeah. Okay.Dwarkesh Patel 1:00:04And I'm curious if you think that today to get rid of, I guess the red tape and then the NIMBYism, would it just be enough for one man to accumulate as much influence as Moses had and then to push through some things or does that need to be some sort of systemic reform? Because when Moses took power, of course there was ours also that Tammany Hall machine that he had to run through, right? Is that just what's needed today to get through the bureaucracy or is something more needed?Kenneth Jackson 1:00:31Well, I don't think Robert Moses with all of his talents and personality, I don't think he could do in the 21st century what he did in the middle of the 20th century. I think he would have done a lot, maybe more than anybody else. But also I think his methods, his really bullying messages, really, really, he bullied people, including powerful people. I don't think that would work quite as easy today, but I do think we need it today. And I think even today, we found even now we have in New York, just the beginnings of leftists. I'm thinking of AOC, the woman who led the campaign against Amazon in New York saying, well, we need some development. If we want to make housing more affordable, somebody has got to build something. It's not that we've got more voter because you say you want affordable housing. You got to build affordable housing and especially you got to build more of it. So we have to allow people, we have to overturn the NIMBYism to say, well, even today for all of our concern about environmental change, we have to work together. I mean, in some ways we have to believe that we're in some ways in the same boat and it won't work if we put more people in the boat, but don't make the boat any bigger. Yeah.Dwarkesh Patel 1:01:59But when people discuss Moses and the power accumulated, they often talk about the fact that he took so much power away from democratically elected officials and the centralized so much power in himself. And obviously the power broker talks a great deal about the harms of that kind of centralization. But I'm curious having studied the history of New York, what are the benefits if there can be one coordinated cohesive plan for the entire city? So if there's one person who's designing all the bridges, all the highways, all the parks, is something more made possible that can be possible if like multiple different branches and people have their own unique visions? I don't know if that question makes sense.Kenneth Jackson 1:02:39That's a big question. And you've got to put a lot of trust into the grand planner, especially if a massive area of 20, 25 million people, bigger than the city, I'm not sure what you're really talking about. I think that in some ways we've gone too far in the ability to obstruct change, to stop it. And we need change. I mean, houses deteriorate and roads deteriorate and sewers deteriorate. We have to build into our system the ability to improve them. And now in New York we respond to emergencies. All of a sudden a water main breaks, the street collapses and then they stop everything, stop the water main break and repair the street and whatever it is. Meanwhile in a hundred other places it's leaking, it's just not leaking enough to make the road collapse. But the problem is there every day, every minute. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.1:03:44 Is Progress CyclicalDwarkesh Patel 1:03:44I'm curious, as a professor, I mean you've studied American history. Do you just see this as a cyclical thing where you have periods where maybe one person has too much power to periods where there's dispersed vitocracy and sclerosis and then you're just going to go through these cycles? Or how do you see that in the grand context of things, how do you see where we are, where we were during Moses and where we might be in the future?Kenneth Jackson 1:04:10Well you're right to say that much of life is cyclical. And there is a swing back and forth. But having said that, I think the person like Robert Moses is unusual, partly because he might have gone on to become a hedge fund person or didn't have hedge funds when he was around. But you know, new competitor to Goldman Sachs, I mean he could have done a lot of things, maybe been a general. He wanted to have power and control. And I think that's harder to accumulate now. We have too much power. You can demonstrate and you can stop anything. We love demonstrations in the United States. We respect them. We see it as a visible expression of our democracy, is your ability to get on the streets and block the streets. But you know, still you have to get to work. I mean at some point in the day you've got to do something. And yeah, Hitler could have done a lot of things if he wanted to. He could have made Berlin into a... But you know, if you have all the power, Hitler had a lot of it. If he turned Berlin into a colossal city, he was going to make it like Washington but half-sive. Well Washington has already got its own issues. The buildings are too big. Government buildings don't have life on the street and stuff like this. Like Hitler would destroy it forever because you build a monumental city that's not for people. And I think that was probably one of Moses' weak points is unlike Jane Jacobs who saw people. Moses didn't see people. He saw bridges. He saw highways. He saw tunnels. He saw rivers. He saw the city as a giant traffic problem. Jane Jacobs, who was a person without portfolio most of her life except of her own powers of judgment and persuasion, she thought, well what is the shoe repairman got to do with the grocery store, got to do with the school, got to do with something else? She saw what Moses didn't see. She saw the intricacies of the city. He saw a giant landscape. She saw the block, just the block.Dwarkesh Patel 1:06:45Yeah there's a common trope about socialist and communist which is that they love humanity in the abstract but they hate people as individuals. And it's like I guess one way to describe Robert Moses. It actually kind of reminds me of one of my relatives that's a doctor and he's not exactly a people person. And he says like, you know, I hate like actually having to talk to the patients about like, you know, like ask them questions. I just like the actual detective work of like what is going on, looking at the charts and figuring out doing the diagnosis. Are you optimistic about New York? Do you think that in the continuing towards the end of the 21st century and into the 22nd century, it will still be the capital of the world or what do you think is the future ofKenneth Jackson 1:07:30the city? Well, The Economist, which is a major publication that comes out of England, recently predicted that London and New York would be in 2100 what they are today, which is the capitals of the world. London is not really a major city in terms of population, probably under 10 million, much smaller than New York and way smaller than Tokyo. But London has a cosmopolitan, heterogeneous atmosphere within the rule of law. What London and New York both offer, which Shanghai doesn't or Hong Kong doesn't at the moment is a system so if you disagree, you're not going to disappear. You know what I mean? It's like there's some level of guarantee that personal safety is sacred and you can say what you want. I think that's valuable. It's very valuable. And I think the fact that it's open to newcomers, you can't find a minority, so minority that they don't have a presence in New York and a physical presence. I mean, if you're from Estonia, which has got fewer people than New York suburbs, I mean individual New York suburbs, but there's an Estonian house, there's Estonian restaurants, there's, you know, India, Pakistan, every place has got an ethnic presence. If you want it, you can have it. You want to merge with the larger community, merge with it. That's fine. But if you want to celebrate your special circumstances, it's been said that New York is everybody's second home because you know if you come to New York, you can find people just like yourself and speaking your language and eating your food and going to your religious institution. I think that's going to continue and I think it's not only what makes the United States unusual, there are a few other places like it. Switzerland is like it, but the thing about Switzerland that's different from the United States is there are parts of Switzerland that are most of it's Swiss German and parts of it's French, but they stay in their one places, you know what I mean? So they speak French here and they speak German there. You know, Arizona and Maine are not that different demographically in the United States. Everybody has shuffled the deck several times and so I think that's what makes New York unique. In London too. Paris a little bit. You go to the Paris underground, you don't even know what language you're listening to. I think to be a great city in the 21st century, and by the way, often the Texas cities are very diverse, San Francisco, LA, very diverse. It's not just New York. New York kind of stands out because it's bigger and because the neighborhoods are more distinct. Anybody can see them. I think that's, and that's what Robert Moses didn't spend any time thinking about. He wasn't concerned with who was eating at that restaurant. Wasn't important, or even if there was a restaurant, you know? Whereas now, the move, the slow drift back towards cities, and I'm predicting that the pandemic will not have a permanent influence. I mean, the pandemic is huge and it's affected the way people work and live and shop and have recreation. So I'm not trying to blow it off like something else, but I think in the long run, we are social animals. We want to be with each other. We need each other, especially if you're young, you want to be with potential romantic partners. But even other people are drawn. Just a few days ago, there was a horrible tragedy in Seoul, Korea. That's because 100,000 young people are drawn to each other. They could have had more room to swing their arms, but they wanted to crowd into this one alley because that's where other people were. They wanted to go where other people were. That's a lot about the appeal of cities today. We've been in cars and we've been on interstate highways. At the end of the day, we're almost like cats. We want to get together at night and sleep on each other or with each other. I think that's the ultimate. It's not for everybody. Most people would maybe rather live in a small town or on the top of a mountain, but there's a percentage of people. Let's call it 25% who really want to be part of the tumble in the tide and want to be things mixed up. They will always want to be in a place like New York. There are other places, San Francisco, Boston, Philadelphia a little bit. They're not mainly in the United States, but in Europe, Copenhagen. Copenhagen is not a big city, neither is Prague, but they have urbanity. New York has urbanity. I think we don't celebrate urbanity as much as we might. The pure joy of being with others.1:12:36 Friendship with CaroDwarkesh Patel 1:12:36Yeah. I'm curious if you ever got a chance to talk to Robert Caro himself about Moses at someKenneth Jackson 1:12:45point. Robert Caro and I were friends. In fact, when the power broker received an award, the Francis Parkman Prize from the Society of American Historians, it turned out we lived near each other in the Bronx. And I drove him home and we became friends and social friends. And I happened to be with him on the day that Robert Moses died. We were with our wives eating out in a neighborhood called Arthur Avenue. The real Little Italy of New York is in the Bronx. It's also called Be

Gospel of Luke, Chapter 15, verses 1-32I read the long version of the Gospel for this weekend's 24th Sunday in Ordinary Time. You may hear the short version at Mass, but it's too good to pass up. Today Jesus, in the form of story telling, reminds us who God is, how God is, and who we are and the value we carry. All of us. No exceptions. It's too good to miss.Original Score written and performed by Bridget Zenk

Transcription:00:03Welcome to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best lives, and advice on how you can achieve that too.  Join us with your lively host Ray Lowe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.Ray Loewe00:17Well, this is the lively host, Ray Lowe, and welcome to our brand new studio in Willow Street, Pennsylvania, wherever that might be. And we've got a great guest today. But before we get into our guest, I want to remind everybody that changing the rules is about the fact that all through our lives we're given rules, we're given them by our parents, and then we went to school in the school gave us rules in the church gave us rules, and our jobs gave us rules. And I think it was Steve Jobs, the Apple guy who came back and said, You know, when you're living your life under somebody else's rules, you're not living your life, you're living somebody else's life. And we're lucky enough that every week we interview one of the luckiest people in the world. Now we have a definition for that. The luckiest people in the world are those people who take control of their own lives and live them under their own terms. And we certainly have one of the luckiest people in the world with us today. And I want to start out with a statement and you're gonna see why it's so important as we go through. You know, just because you reach a certain age in life doesn't mean that you have to retire and that you're washed up. And in fact, many people when they reach a certain age are useful. And sometimes they're outstanding, and sometimes they're even become the best there is regardless of their age. So I want to do is introduce today, Candice O'Donnell. You prefer Candice or Candy?Candace O'Donnell  01:45Candice? Candice. I think Candy sounds like a retired stripper at my age.Ray Loewe01:53Oh, well,Candace O'Donnell  01:55I go with Candace,Ray Loewe01:56you know, you'd probably do that well, too. But we'll get into that one. Okay, so So Candice has a really interesting career. And her background is she's raised four children. Okay, not a small feat. While she was doing that she taught English at Elizabethtown University, she has always been active in the theater. And then she got to a point where she had a chance to create some projects that were of interest to her. Okay, and a let's and that started later in life. So So let's, let's tell everybody how young you are.Candace O'Donnell 02:31I'll be at in about a month 27th two months 27 of JuneRay Loewe02:37And you know, many people, when they reach these certain ages, say it's time to shut down? Well, not Candice. Okay, so tell us a little bit about these projects that you created. And tell us about them in general. And then let's get specific about the three specific ones that you chose to put into life.Candace O'Donnell 02:56Well, as you said, I've been doing theater here in Lancaster for maybe 25 years. I've done the Fulton I've done EPAC, my favorite role until I started doing this. This one-woman show was Driving Miss Daisy. That's a wonderful play with a fabulous message. But I guess it was about six, seven years ago. I started doing these one-woman shows I had done small skits for the anniversary of the Fulton 200 and 50th anniversary of people who had appeared at the phone, one of them being Sarah Bernhardt. And so I started I had done a little bit on Carrie Nation, the Temperance leader I had done Abigail Adams, but I started going in earnest into these one-woman shows. I had always wanted to do Mary Lincoln. And I hesitated on Mary Lincoln because it was such a tragic life. She was mentally ill, and she lost every single person that she loved. Every single person that she loved was taken away from her. And I couldn't figure out a way to get into humor in it. And so I kept hesitating, because I thought can I put in audiences through 70 minutes, 75 minutes of hell, her life was hell. And then I remembered one of her funny lines. When she first met Lincoln. She was the belle of the ball and he was a country bumpkin. And he came up to her and he said, Ms. Todd, I want to dance with you in the worst kind of way. And then she said, and then he proceeded to do exactly that. So that's where I got a little humor and I developed that. And then I decided to undertake Sarah Bernhardt an entirely different person. I go for a through-line with each of my characters. The through-line for Mary Lincoln was much madness is divinest sense, which is Emily Dickinson. And was it the track it was a fact that she was mentally ill. Sarah Bernhardt entirely different story, my throughline for her was Edsp ofs. Riojan was not ago not at all. And Sarah Bernhardt lived life on her own terms. She was a survivor. She invented the casting couch. She invented the PR agent. And she invented the cougar. She was amoral, rather than immoral. She was a tremendous survivor. She continued to perform 10 years after her leg was amputated. And incidentally, she did perform at the Fulton Theatre in Lancaster. And finally, I worked my way to Queen Victoria. I had had a strong interest in her for years. And the subtitle there is he was my all in all, Victoria is about her obsession, obsession with her husband, Albert. And particularly funny because they had nine children, she hated babies. You do the math, you put it together? Why did they have nine children? She hated them. So that's how I got into these. And I've really enjoyed them.Ray Loewe06:03Okay, well, I'm sorry, you don't have any passion for any of these at all. But you know, I think what does it take to do this? So let's go back to the first one to Mary Todd Lincoln. First of all, you had to make the decision that this was a character that you were going to bring to life. Okay. And so what did you have to do? I mean, because you wrote the script, right?Candace O'Donnell  06:29You I, it takes me about two to three years to research each person. And, but it's, it's amazing. Ray, the, the through-line comes to you almost instantly, at least it did to me when you see what the glue of this character is what you're going to emphasize. Now, another writer might not emphasize it. But then your research all falls into place. AndRay Loewe06:56okay, so you write the script, you're starting two years ahead of before you're going to deliver this Right, correct. And you got to go where do you find the background data on these people?Candace O'Donnell  07:07There, you're gonna really be surprised at this. It shows you what a low-tech dinosaur I am. I get it out of books. You've heard of books, B. O. O. K. S. I do not get online. Most people today would do their research online.Ray Loewe07:23Yeah. You know, we have our engineer here, who is college age, you know, and I think he's a digital book guy. Oh, is he? okay. Well, maybe not. Maybe he knows what a book is. Okay, You read books in college? Yeah, he did. Okay, so you dig in, and you've got two years of finding a character? Have you ever started on any and then found out halfway through that you couldn't get enough material and you killed the character?Candace O'Donnell 07:48No, I'm a little bit too cautious a person for that? I wouldn't. I'm usually interested in the character and know something about the character. And also I use films and plays as my sources too. I know enough about the character that I have yet to launch into one and thought, oh, no, this is actually a boring character. In fact, the more I researched them, the more fascinating they become.Ray Loewe08:13Okay, so So you start digging into this and you got this two-year process and you're writing your own script? Yeah. Okay. Which probably helps you memorize the script. Okay, and now you're going to deliver this. Okay, so how do you deliver this do you need to get sponsors for this as something that you go to somebody and do a trial.Candace O'Donnell  08:38I'm really glad you asked me that question, because it gives me a chance to pay tribute to Betsy Hurley of the Lancaster Literary Guild, and I haven't been asked that question before. She's the person who got me into the Ware Center with Mary Lincoln. Okay, and once those were very successful, and then I didn't have trouble getting into the Ware center after that. Most of them the more sellouts. My difficulty was COVID. You know, I had a delay of several well, all told this production was delayed four years because of COVID.Ray Loewe09:16Okay, so this is why Candice is one of the luckiest people in the world. I want you to think about this as our listeners here. Okay, so she took on a project several years ago, she knew it was going to take several years to do this. She ran into the COVID barrier most other people use as an excuse to quit, but not here. We were going to deliver this and we're gonna get into a couple of other things later as we go. So all of a sudden, Mary Todd Lincoln appeared on the stage, and you have a script. And do you have any plans to do anything with that script? Now that you've given the character life?Candace O'Donnell  09:55You mean Mary Todd Lincoln? Yeah. I've been asked to do a program here at Willow Valley and what I sometimes do with my programs, I'll do 20 minutes of Mary Lincoln. I'll do 20 minutes of Sarah Bernhardt. I'll do 20 minutes of Queen Victoria. I'm developing that now.Ray Loewe10:14Okay, so you've finished, Mary Todd. She's now alive. Okay. Yes. And now you sat there and you said, Okay, what's next? You didn't stop. Right? So how did you get the drive to go on to the next one? Candace O'Donnell 10:34I, because I'm an incorrigible ham. That's what my husband would tell you. Okay, that's where I get the drive. Okay, I have to admit it.Ray Loewe10:42Well, this is where the passion meets the excellence, though, so go ahead.Candace O'Donnell 10:47Well, that's what motivates me. But also, right, I really get passionate about these women. That's why I don't choose anybody that I don't admire. I see their foibles. We all have our foibles. But I couldn't do it fair, if I were doing man, I couldn't do Trump because I wouldn't, I couldn't admire him enough to do him, okay, I admire all these women. And the more I know about them, the more I see the hell they went through in various ways, and they triumphed over it. So it's not at all hard to motivate myself to do this. It was hard to keep the faith during COVID. With all the delays, like um, and of course, as you and I discussed, I'm getting older. So I'm wondering if I'm gonna go into dementia. Oh, and by the way, I'm losing my balance. I take the balance classes here at Willow Valley. So I won't fall down on stage. Okay. So you're wondering, you are wondering, is the body is the mind going to fail me. And you just sort of leap out in faith,Ray Loewe12:00but you didn't give up? And it worked.  So let's talk about being queen. Okay. So I met you when you were going into this role of Queen of the empire Victoria. Okay. And, to tell you the truth, when I met you, I went to your performance with some trepidation. I mean, I'm sitting there saying, you know, can I sit through an hour plus of this? And I'll tell you, I was wrapped for 75 minutes, I don't think I moved in my seat, and to your little heart and to get me to do that. This is not me. I you know, so you know, you're an athlete. So you did something special here. And, it was a wonderful performance, and you brought this character to life. And I could just see in your eyes and your, the way you moved on stage that you are not you that don't you are Queen, Victoria. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about putting this one together. Because you had to start two years ago, you'd already done a couple of these. So you knew you could do it. Yeah. But now you started asking these questions in one of the things that you told me was about two weeks before you were gonna give this guess what, what happened?Candace O'Donnell 13:12Really, really nasty cough? And, of course, immediately tested for COVID. No, it wasn't COVID chest X-ray, is it pneumonia. And that was frightening I, people, I don't get frightened by performing because as I already confessed, I'm a ham I love to perform. But this cough frightened me. Because I was really terrified that I would not be able to deliver the performance. I was thinking of some other actresses I've worked with, but that was too late for them to memorize a 70-minute script. And I remember my daughter, saying, Mom, well, you may just have to give up on this. And she said I said, Well, I'm, you know me. I'm not giving up at this point. Don't you know my personality? And she said, Well, would you rather die mom? And I said yes. Yes. I would rather die than have to call Keegan my granddaughter was in the show introducing it. She's a temple, a student at Temple called Keegan and say, Keegan, we're not doing it. I would. So that was our big family joke. Mom would rather die than not do it so. As you know, you were there. Well, I was coughing right before I went out, I had to sucrets, I had tea. But now this, you said I'm the luckiest person in the world. And you are and I am and we are but that this was also a blessing. Because I absolutely believe this was God. I mean, I go out there and I'm not coughing. It's unbelievable to me, nor did I fall down on stage. Ray Loewe14:39And the show must go on. The show must go on. So I think this is a message that I want our listeners to get across. Most of us during our lives, put off projects that we want to do because life gets in the way. You know, here you were. You're raising four kids. You're teaching English. You know you're doing all of these things and then somewhere along the line, I think this germ woke up in your head and said, this has been there for a long time I have to do this.Candace O'Donnell  15:09Yeah. It's, it's, I think, if you have a particular passion, you almost have it from the womb.Ray Loewe15:17And it's never too late to do that. And even at your stage of the game, when you are worried about health issues and things like that, guess what? You know everything falls in place, it was no problem. You got it done.Candice O'Donnell  15:32I was flabbergasted by it myself. Oh, I want to say one other thing, because there were so many Willow Valley people in the audience, I had two very sharp audiences, you being one of the members of the audience, who were completely with me, and you can tell that when you step out on stage, you can feel the button. You know, Bruce Springsteen, performing as an exchange of energy between the audience and the performer. You can tell when they're with you, they were laughing ahead of my jokes. That before I got to my punch line, they were laughing. I thought, Oh, boy.Ray Loewe16:10Well, you know, what was the gift? Well, when we had to stand up and sing God, save the queen, and do the royal wave to greet you in there. I mean, you had us at the beginning. But I think this is a really good lesson for people because here you are. And I'm going to predict you're going to do another one. I have no idea what it might be.Candace O'Donnell  16:30My husband will kill me but yeah, we can all see I'm incorrigible.Ray Loewe16:33And the other thing that you're doing here is you're creating scripts, that maybe somebody else will do not as well as you do, but they'll do it at some point in time. And, and the research that you've done is just phenomenal projects. And I think you're to be congratulated for doing that. And I think it just makes you younger and younger and younger. So there all right, it keeps you going forward. Okay, so, unfortunately, we're near the end of our time here. So it's flies. Do you have any, any parting comments, any words of wisdom to anybody who wants to do these things? Or anything for the good of mankind?Candace O'Donnell  17:12Well, I just want to say I am hoping to eventually sell the scripts so that they will live on after me. Again, you may think I sound like a religious fanatic here. If you can get the guts to get out there and do it. Something in my case, I believe it was God, but something will see you through. Don't be afraid to try.Ray Loewe17:39And with that, I don't think there's anything more to say. So Luke is our engineer here at Willow Valley. So Luke, sign us off, please.17:52Thank you for listening to changing the rules. Join us next week for more conversation, our special guest and to hear more from the luckiest guy in the world.

Task 11 is Select Your Path. Today's guest on the show is Melissa Dockum, Executive Administrator for Impact Actual. Melissa is a retired dancer who performed at Radio City Music Hall in New York City. She transitioned into a teacher and then during COVID life, course corrected her path. 08:10As a performer transitioning into teacher transitioning into, you know, well, COVID life, which basically killed the arts for a while, I'm conditioned to select my path multiple times, you know, it's not like I chose my nine to five job and stuck with that for the rest of my life. 13:17What you just said about being brutally honest, that was something that I had to learn to be honest with myself, and realize I'm doing what I should do, or what I've been taught to do. But deep down, I don't really want to do that I don't I don't want to take that path. 15:03 I felt this oppressive weight on my soul, that I was doing the wrong thing. I was on the wrong track. 26:09 To be honest, I journal I think write writing down your pros and cons can kind of help navigate that, but I, I really gravitate towards the what do I want? What do I need to do to get there? How will that make me feel? So that feeling that heart feeling is what I really actually want. And that can then guide my brain towards you know, where I want to go. 34:32I like to laugh at myself, because it's taken me so long to learn the same lessons about honoring I've been teaching honoring your body, mind, heart and soul staying fit across the powers. And we're talking here about the dumb zone, the fifth human power of boundary setting, having a healthy boundary around yourself first, even to the closest person we talked about five powers and five rings. 44:37 It is selecting your path is a process of being responsible, accountable. We talk about accountability all the time.

Dazayah Walker is the Head of Investments at Quality Control Music, the label behind today's most trendsetting artists like Lil Baby and Migos, Dazayah. She maintains QC's investment portfolio, particularly within the startup space, which spans well beyond just music and entertainment. Being a 23-year-old venture capitalist is difficult as is. Now tack on being female and black? “It's been a journey”, as Dazayah Walker shares with us in this episode of the Trapital podcast.Dazayah's path to becoming a Venture Capitalist is as unorthodox as you'll find in the venture capital world, but she's stuck to the same principles that got her that opportunity to begin with — seeking out mentors, surrounding herself with a supportive community, and taking the learning process day-by-day. Before overseeing QC's investments, Dazayah worked on the music side for the label. She began as an intern for QC, and worked her way through the ranks at the same time QC was taking the music industry by storm. Not only is Dazayah breaking down doors, but she's also trying to leave them open for future aspiring VC's with similar unconventional backgrounds. As Dazayah continues to learn the ins and outs of venture capital, she plans on creating initiatives to educate others about the world she operates in. To hear Dazayah's future ambitions, plus everything else we covered in the show, reference the video chapters below: [0:00] Dazayah's goals with her role[2:13] Dazayah's Transition Into Venture Capital[5:29] What Is QC's Investment Thesis? [6:35] The Pros And Cons Of Involving QC Artists Into Investments[9:16] What Does Dazayah Look For In A Company Before Investing? [10:49] QC Investing Beyond Just Music and Entertainment [10:45] Dazayah's particular interest in Fintech[12:56] QC's and Dazayah's Involvement With Techstars[14:48] The Challenge Dazayah Faced Breaking Into The VC World[16:04] What Programs Have Helped Dazayah Adjust To The VC World? [17:40] What Was Behind QC's Investment Into Riff? [18:50] QC's Investment Portfolio Explained [20:00] “You Can Do This Too And This Is How”[23:30] Music-Wise, What Is Dazayah Most Excited About QC In Near Future?Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuest: Dazayah Walker, @dazayah   Trapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop's biggest players by reading Trapital's free weekly memo. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands-----------Dazayah Walker 00:00Finding success here and having a strong track record and proven portfolio and then be able to use that as a way to show people you can do this too, and this is how, let me show you how, let me be that person to help you understand and be a part of it.Dan Runcie 00:23Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more, who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. Today's episode is with Dazayah Walker, Head of Investments and the Operations Manager at Quality Control Music. This is an exciting role to have at a time like this. QC has been on a run the past few years and has really shaped what hip hop is sounded like, from artists like Migos, to City Girls, to Lil Baby, and then on the other side of this hip hop investing activity is growing faster than ever, and we're seeing more and more artists getting ICAP tables, getting involved with deals. So it's a really exciting time to have a role like this. I talked with Dazayah about what it's been like from her perspective, and representing and getting roles not just for QC as a firm, but for the artists that they represent, and how she has navigated the record label growing as fast as it has the past few years to venture capital landscape and how she's been able to navigate that and a whole lot more. Had a great conversation with her. Hope you enjoy it. Here's my chat with Dazayah Walker. All right, we got Dazayah Walker here today, who is the Head of Investments at Quality Control Music. Dazayah, welcome to the pod. Dazayah Walker 01:42Hello, I'm so happy to be here. Super excited. Let's do this. Dan Runcie 01:46Yeah, so one of the things that stuck out to me about you and your career, you had started as an intern at QC, and you've risen up the ranks there as the label as not just a record label, but as an entertainment company. And now with a corporate venture arm or brollies just continue to grow and expand. Dazayah Walker 02:05Yes. Dan Runcie 02:06Walk me through the steps. What was it like from when you started to where it is now, just with how fast things have been growing there? Dazayah Walker 02:13Yeah, it's been a great journey and experience for me, with this being my first job. There's been a lot of learning curves with that in itself. But it was definitely a privilege and a great opportunity to be able to see the growth of QC, because we've expanded in so many different ways since I started as an intern, and being able to be a part of that, witness that, learn from that I couldn't be in a better position. Dan Runcie 02:36And is there anything specific with the role that you have now that had drawn you to it or something specifically because I know you had started a bit more focused on operations? And then now we're obviously seeing much more on the investment side. But was there something about that opportunity that pulled you in? Dazayah Walker 02:52Yes, so getting to this side was definitely a path of, I would say divine ordering because me entering the opportunity at QC. Starting as an intern, I thought I just wanted to do music, work my way up to being a music industry executive. But as I became more in the groove, and learning more of the things that I like, things that I don't like, I really had to find my place. And when I discovered what venture capital was, because when I was at Spelman, I was an economics major. So I kind of have like, I've always been surrounded by that when I was in school, just the finance, track and everything like that. But me venturing into music was me following my passion or what I thought was my passion at that time. So when I discovered what venture capital was, it was actually kind of crazy to me that I hadn't learned about it when I was in school, considering the impact that Morehouse, our brother institution has, as far as their representation of black men in venture capital. It was just crazy to me that I was at an institution right across the street and had no idea that this industry even existed. So when I stumbled across VC and began learning about it, I just saw the opportunity for artists, athletes and entertainers to be involved and was curious as to why more people that look like us aren't represented in those spaces. So that's when you know, my research and dedication to being in this position really started. And then from there, you know, bringing that idea and really helped become what we're building today with quality Ventures has been amazing. Dan Runcie 04:26So talk to me about that piece about bringing this idea together. So was it you seeing the opportunity and seeing how much of a disconnect there was and then going into the team at QC to be like, hey, there's something big here and we have talent here that could be just as influential. Dazayah Walker 04:42Yes. So it was a moment where I had to really think about what legacy do I want to have, what value do I want to add, and being in this position, you know, I built relationships with, you know, our entire team. So I was somebody that, you know, they trusted and when I, you know, have something to say they were listening, and you know, they embraced any idea or anything that I had. So by, you know, telling them and showing them, you know, the opportunity that exists for us in this space, it was well-received. And now here we are deploying capital, making investments. And my goal is really for us to have that same little level of influence and impact that we have in music in the venture capital space, as well. So having that same strong presence and footprint in that industry, too.Dan Runcie 05:29So what does that thesis look like? What does that investment goal look like for QC specifically, because I'm sure it's more than just the financial aspect? There's the pitch and how it can help intersect and how the music itself and everything you're doing on the media and entertainment side can help with the venture opportunity too?Dazayah Walker 05:48Absolutely, so our biggest thing is adding value, adding strategic value. So for us being in a unique position of being that entity that defines culture and creates culture, I feel like we're uniquely positioned to leverage our artists and our athletes to really help grow these companies that we see as potential winners.Dan Runcie 06:11And are there ever any specific moments where folks are reaching out? And there's, of course, the interest in having QC on the cap table, but then people reaching out about specific artists, whether it's like, oh, well, we want to have City Girls on here, specifically, or we want to be able to have a Lil Baby on here? How has it been with that piece of advice, I'm sure that could be an interesting discussion, especially from your landscape with all of that. Dazayah Walker 06:35So that happens a lot as well. And it all boils down to seeing if the artist even aligns with what you're building. Because when you're working with early stage, or pre-seed stage companies, that may be the very first version of whatever they're building, there's so many more iterations yet to happen. And as the entity continues to grow, and transform, the artists that they thought may be ideal for what they're building as a representation may not be as they continue to, you know, redefine what it is that they're building. So yes, you know, we get opportunities all the time for our artists, which was another reason why, like the opportunity to bridge the gap and intersect music and technology was so evident and clear to me, you know, to pursue and to do, because those opportunities and those deals are always flowing. But really being in a position being someone that knows how to evaluate those opportunities, and educate, you know, the artist, or the athlete or whoever may be to let them know, like, this is why this is a good, you know, opportunity or something to look at and this is why it isn't.Dan Runcie 07:41I also imagine that there's likely people that may be reaching out because they may want just the exposure that may come right, they may be like, “Oh, well, if y'all invest can Lil Baby, give us a shout out for the product on some song. And I could see there being you know, some pushback on that, because obviously, you all would see the opportunity as being greater than that.” But how was that piece of it been? Because I know, I've heard similar from folks in the entertainment space when they're looking to have not just celebrities, but artists specifically on the cap table.Dazayah Walker 08:13Well, personally, I don't think a founder having that mindset is necessarily wrong because in the VC ecosystem now, capital isn't an issue. So getting the money having people to, you know, write a check for you isn't the hard part. It's actually once you get that money, how can you use that, you know, relationship that you now have to help build your company or grow whatever it is that you're building. So I feel like a founder having that perspective isn't necessarily a bad thing, because you want to have partners that can help you grow your company and add value in different ways. So if there is an opportunity for an artist, if it's something that they really love, you know, to be an ambassador for it, and to push it.Dan Runcie 08:58So when you're evaluating startups, and when you're evaluating artists, or not artists, founders, specifically, what are you looking for, like, what is your criteria set? And what are those things whether it's tangible or intangible that you're looking for that clears that over the hurdle to be like, Yes, this is what we want to invest in?Dazayah Walker 09:16So I would break it down into three things. The first thing I would say, what is the problem that you're trying to solve? Is this a problem that is unique to you and from like, or where you're from? Or is this a problem that is affecting a wide market of people? So first, understanding the problem, and if the solution that they're attempting to build is a solution for the greater good? The second thing is really understanding their team, like, who do you have helping you build this? What people do need a position to help you build it? And like how much traction Have you gotten so far. And the first, and I think the most important thing is the founder, when you're working with companies that are likely pre-revenue, maybe they have a very, very early version of their product, you're placing a bet on the founder. So knowing the type of person to look for, or the type of characteristics to look for in a founder, I think are very important. Somebody that is determined, somebody that is all in like willing to make the investment themselves because how do you expect me or someone to make an investment when you haven't even, you know, fully invested yourself in this in this idea? So I will say those are the top three things that I look at when I meet with founders and new companies.Dan Runcie 10:33That makes sense. And then in terms of the industries themselves, is there any type of sector that you're particularly looking for, or any other type of industry that you feel is most aligned with what QC or Quality Ventures is after?Dazayah Walker 10:49Yeah, so as a company, Quality Ventures isn't looking in specific industries and verticals. I know a lot of people think since you know, we have Quality Control Music, we're looking strictly at music-based companies and startups. And that's not necessarily true. Like I said, our whole thesis is really about us being in a position to add value. But for me, specifically, I really like looking at fintech companies, I think that Fintech is the next market to really boom so paying attention to the trends, paying attention to what people are saying, paying attention to what problems are they need to be solved. So for me personally, the industry of interest to me is fintech.Dan Runcie 11:28And what is it about fintech specifically that sticks out to you or interest you?Dazayah Walker 11:32I like it because I think it's time for a change as far as how money is viewed, how money is moved. Like I know, you probably have seen how crypto, everybody's talking about crypto, and preparation for the metaverse, like, all of those things are happening strategically. And by being aware of what's happening in fintech, you know how the money is moving what the future of money and finances look like. So that you can kind of put yourself in position to not only be educated about it but know how to make your next move when it comes to what the future looks like.Dan Runcie 12:05Right? That makes sense. And I think especially when you look more broadly at the definition of FinTech, and you look at companies like Coinbase, and you look at some of the partnerships that they've had with organizations like the NBA, or even the United Masters, there's clearly an alignment where even if it isn't in the quote-unquote, entertainment landscape, this touches so much. So that's why I think you see so many artists and companies in this space that want to tap into all these areas, even if they're not necessarily what you may think is in that industry. Dazayah Walker 12:38Exactly. Dan Runcie 12:39And with that, I mean, for you, I know that another partnership that QC has, at least on the investment side, from what I've seen is in Techstars Music, and I saw that you're a mentor there and that QC more broadly as a partner. So how has that experience been?Dazayah Walker 12:56It's been amazing. Just the Techstars music team in general have been a great like resource for us. So when the program, when we joined the program last year, we kind of were thrown in when things were already in motion, like they were already preparing for demo day, the companies in the cohort were already selected. But now I was able to be a part of the process of you know, picking the companies for the new cohort, being a part of like all the member meetings and the mentor meetings. So with me still being in a very early part of my career, I'm always looking for opportunities to learn and experience new things. And Techstars has been an amazing teacher for me. Just seeing things from that perspective, working with an accelerator, like working with founders and seeing them in that perspective has definitely helped me I feel like become a better venture capitalist, just seeing things from different angles and different perspectives. Because honestly, once I made the decision to transition into venture capital, I was a little discouraged because I am entering it through a very unconventional background. So any opportunity that I have to learn and observe and ask questions, it's been amazing, because it's been it's been a rough journey for me to be able to confidently say, this is what I'm doing. I know that I'm uniquely qualified to do that thing, and, you know, moving like that. So it's been a journey, Dan, I tell you,Dan Runcie 14:22I could imagine I mean, there are not many people that look like you that are doing this type of work. And when you compound that with what people already may assume is standard for what they expect for people working at, the type of company you work at that just compounds it further. I mean, what are some of the things that you had done early on to try to, you know, either break through that or try to navigate that the best, and I could only imagine how tough that could be at times.Dazayah Walker 14:50Yeah, I would definitely say reaching out to people asking questions, really being a sponge, absorbing as much information and knowledge as I can. Because making this pivot into an entire new industry is scary, because like, I built my network in my name and music. And now, I feel like making a career shift almost as still such an early point in my career was very, very scary. But some of those same like tactics and things that I did to be successful or reach the level of success that I had in music, I applied those same principles to me, you know, trying to achieve a level of success in venture capital. So really finding mentors and finding a community to learn from to be supported by and to be supportive of, and just taking things day by day. And knowing that every day is an opportunity to learn something new, and, you know, not taking opportunity for granted because I know I'm in a very unique and special position. And I'm grateful for the position that I'm in. So really showing people why I, you know, I'm deserving of the role that I've been placed in.Dan Runcie 16:04Definitely. And I also think, too, whether it's programs like HBCU, VC, and obviously, you representing that being an alum from HBCU them recognizing that this is a pipeline that not only is a challenge, but how can they help bridge that gap? And, you know, are there any specific organizations, whether it's like that or others that have been helpful for you as you've gone along this path?Dazayah Walker 16:26Yeah, so definitely HBCU BC, considering I was a fellow, that was an amazing program with amazing teachers, and I've really been able to, like tap into that community, which has been amazing. Another community that I'm really grateful for is Black VC and the Black Venture Capital Consortium, both of those organizations have been super supportive and welcoming of me. And it's things like that, that are very important for not even just me being a young black woman, but you know, being a person of color trying to enter another space that is male-dominated, white-male-dominated. So just having that comfort of knowing that there are people that support you and want to uplift you and see you do amazing things.Dan Runcie 17:11Yeah, definitely. I could see that for sure. I could see that. Well. Let's circle back quick. I do want to talk about some of the public investments that you've made. I know that Riff was one of them, that you all were in, was that one of them? Riff, yes. Okay. So what was the process like for that investment? What was it that attracted you about that company?Dazayah Walker 17:31Well, Riff isn't one that I necessarily, like found from the beginning and worked all the way to the point where we cut the check. But Riff has been an amazing company in our portfolio, I'm super excited for what they're building, just seeing them being disruptive and combining elements that we as consumers love, I'm really excited for the journey of Riff and being able to be a great partner to them, and just seeing them grow. And you know, being along that journey in that ride with them, but they're definitely building something amazing. And I'm excited for, you know, the masses to really, you know, tap into it, learn about it, and really get engaged with it.Dan Runcie 18:10Yeah, I can see that. Are there any that are public that you've worked on that you can talk more about?Dazayah Walker 18:17Yeah, so one of my favorite companies in our portfolio, which is actually one of the companies from the previous class of Techstars. It's called Faith. And this is one that I really, really loved. Because not only did our relate to like the platform, just to give you a little bit of background Faith is an app for fans. It allows fans to come together and really live within their fandom. And with me being a past fangirl, I immediately fell in love with what she was building. And the founder, she's a black woman, she's a solopreneur, which is a challenge in itself. So just seeing what she's built so far, the amount of traction that she's received, and just how far she has come has been super inspirational for me, you know, being involved, even in like the due diligence and saying, I think this is a great company, I think this is one that we really should pay attention to, to the point of us actually deploying capital to that company. That was super cool, and really amazing. And that's another company in our portfolio that I'm super excited about. And I feel like not only will my generation, like, enjoy the app, but the generation underneath me will as well, so…Dan Runcie 19:23Nice. That makes sense. Yeah. And I feel with apps like that in platforms. I mean, not only do you have the direct connection, but I'm sure you being able to have the connection to it. I mean, these are the type of things obviously it's still early stage, you know, but gets marked up you continue to have that influence over it and you never know where that could take you. I feel like that's kind of the exciting thing, especially for the people I talk to you that are that start their careers in VC, as opposed to the other way around the, you know, the folks that may have done something on the product side and then go into vc.Dazayah Walker 19:56Yeah, but my goal overall, really is to, you know, find my groove in this and really, you know, find success for myself and I define success within this space is being able to invest in companies, have exits, and you know, have a strong portfolio, so that I can get to the point where I'm able to educate and inform, because I feel like, part of the reason why a lot of artists, athletes, and entertainers, which is, you know, the people that I'm used to working with and being around, which is why I really strongly urge them to get into this space, and why I feel like I'm in the position, and the person to really do that work, is because they don't know, like, there's that kind of barrier. Like they may see things on social media of other artists that have invested in Gods, you know, there's money back, but really having someone there to educate them and be that bridge and that conduit from, you know, them being in the position and the level of influence, and you know, the reach that they have, and showing them and being that person to bring deals to them to help them leverage that so that not only are they able to, you know, be represented in this space, but build generational wealth for them and their families. Like that's the bigger picture. And that's the goal for me. And that's the work that I really want to do and look forward to doing. So finding success here and having a strong, like track record and proven portfolio, and then being able to use that as a way to show people you can do this too. And this is how, let me show you how, let me be that person to help you understand and be a part of it.Dan Runcie 21:32Yeah, that's powerful. Because I feel like especially for you or you're in your position now. There's a lot of people that I'm sure look at you being like, oh, Dazayah, how can we get in that? Like, how do you were able to, you know, connect those dots. And then you obviously, you know, I'm sure you feel like you're deep into yourself, you're learning as you're continuing to grow. But you know that in the near future, you will be able to have enough. And that can look like a number of things, whether that's a course or some other type of platform to just share and disseminate this information. Because not only is it important for people to hear it, it's important for people to hear it from people who you know, look like you they if you want to inspire, you know, especially if there's black women across the country across the world, I want to hear it, the more folks that could share their experience, the better that is.Dazayah Walker 22:16Absolutely, I agree 100%. Like, the more you know, the better position that you can put yourself in. And I just think it's a lack of knowledge, people just not knowing, like, what these things mean, how to get in on deals, how much to invest, like, there's so many layers to it. And I feel like if people were a bit more comfortable, they'd be more open and investing their money in other ways than the traditional stocks and bonds or, you know, how people see fit to save their money or invest their money, I should say. Dan Runcie 22:47Yeah, especially now I feel like we're seeing things like whether it's the accredited investor rule or other things just continuing to be challenged, we're gonna see more and more people investing the definition of an investor and who can get involved with things. As those barriers continue to lower, the options increase. And when that happens, it just provides more space for education. So yeah, you're definitely on the right track with all that stuff has ever said. 100%Dazayah Walker 23:13Thank you. That really means a lot. Thank you.Dan Runcie 23:16Yeah, well, um, I know that, you know, we've covered a lot in this. But before we let you go, I do want to get a quick take from you on what are you most excited for? What's coming through the QC portfolio for the rest of 2022? And I guess portfolio, that'd be more on the artists side. Specifically, what are you excited for on that front. Dazayah Walker 23:36I'm just excited for the continued growth of Quality Control as an empire. It hasn't even been 10 years that QC has been in existence. And for us to have made so much leeway, create so much history have so much impact within that 10-year window. I'm excited to see what the next five years look like for us. But even just in the next year, in the next 12 months, I'm excited to see the continued growth and effort of our team, like our team has grown dramatically. So if we were able to do and accomplish so much with such a small team, I'm excited to see what the next 12 months look like for our expansion and our growth and just everything to come and everything that we're building, publicly and silently. I'm just grateful for the position that I'm in and be able to be a part of that and even say those things. So the next year it's going to look like a lot of wins continued success and growth and expansion for all of us.Dan Runcie 24:38That's exciting. I feel like the past decade for QC has been incredible. I think it's so tough for indie labels to be able to have that type of run in the fact that they have says a lot. So I'm excited. I mean, as a fan of all of this, I'm excited to see what happened. But yeah, before we let you go, is there anything else you want to plug or let the Trapital audience know about?Dazayah Walker 25:00I should say this is great, Dan, I absolutely love what you're doing what you're building, you're spreading a message that needs to be heard by so many. And you're not only inspiring me, but you're inspiring people that you may not even know that you're touching. So keep doing the work that you're doing. This was awesome. Thank you so much.Dan Runcie 25:19Thank you. I appreciate that. Appreciate that. We'll do. Thanks, Dazayah.Dazayah Walker 25:23All right. Thank you, Dan.Dan Runcie 25:28 If you enjoyed this podcast, go ahead and share it with a friend. Copy the link, text it to a friend, post it in your group chat, post it in your Slack groups. Wherever you and your people talk, spread the word. That's how Trapital continues to grow and continues to reach the right people. And while you're at it, if you use Apple Podcast, go ahead, rate the podcast. Give it a high rating and leave a review, tell people why you like the podcast that helps more people discover the show. Thank you in advance. Talk to you next week.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

After discussing leech-themed cocktails (1:30) and another round of Leech Anatomy 101 (4:07), Aaron, Banks and Evan dive into Pan's Labyrinth's leechiest themes (11:28), scenes (22:00), and characters (28:10). To get some relief, the guys head into their first Leech on a Beach segment (35:17). They conclude by considering the film's medicinal qualities (38:49) and giving an overall rating -- from 1 to 4 -- of the film's leechiness (44:10).We're always looking to expand our pond -- please reach out!Series URL: www.theleechpodcast.comPublic email contact: theleechpodcast@gmail.comSocial Media:@leechpodcast on Twittertheleechpodcast on InstagramExternal Links:"Leeches" Cocktail: https://www.ayearofcocktails.com/2012/05/leeches.htmlCredits:Hosted by Evan Cate, Banks Clark, and Aaron JonesEditing by Evan CateGraphic design by Banks ClarkOriginal music by Justin Klump of Podcast Sound and MusicProduction help by Lisa Gray of Sound Mind ProductionsEquipment help from Topher ThomasTranscript:Evan 00:05Hello everyone, welcome back to the Leech Podcast, the most visceral podcast. I'm your host, Evan Cate. And I'm joined by two leechy gentlemen, Aaron Jones and BanksClark.00:16Hey guys. 00:18How's it going?Evan 00:21The Leech Podcast has a show about movies that suck the life out of you. They also stick with you. They may even be good for you. Like a leech. If you're wondering what this means, think of a movie that you saw that you knew was amazing. And it also took so much out of you that you thought I don't think I can watch this movie ever again. And somehow, some way. Later on, you watch the movie again. And it is the best thing you've ever seen. That is a leech movie. Some of our listeners are wondering, how did y'all discover leech movies? Well, the three of us discovered our shared love of leech films. When we used to teach together at a school. We found quickly that the three of us are bleeding hearts, who love films. And we all know that blood attracts leeches. So we used to teach together, but now we leech together.Banks 01:27That's a good one.Evan 01:29Thank you. Thank you, I wrote that myself. We would love for others to join us in this leechy endeavor. So if you're interested in talking to us sharing ideas, please hit us up @LeechPodcast on Twitter, and theLeechPodcast on Instagram. We've already heard from some listeners who got some great ideas. Last week we asked about leech cocktails, what would be great drinks that have a leech theme and very grateful for the listeners who shared a cocktail called leeches. Here's the recipe guys. I'd love to get your feedback on what you think about this cocktail. So the recipe for leeches: -three shots lemonade-half shot vodka-half shot peach schnapps-a quarter shot of Canadian whiskey. Preferably black velvetOkay, guys, what do you think?Banks 02:20A bit sweet for my taste. I don't know. Do I do leeches like high blood sugar? That's my question.Aaron 02:28Hey, I was thinking the appropriate lee ch cocktail might be a little stankier--like a little bit like a bleeding armpit.Banks 02:44How does one make a bleeding armpit, Aaron?Aaron 02:42I'm waiting for the listeners to figure it out.Evan 02:45It's quite the challenge that Aaron has posed to our listeners. And I do think that that was a worthy effort, but we will take more suggestions on the leech cocktail. I believe Banks has a concoction in mind. They don't want to Oh, sorry. Was that too soon to spoil that?Banks 03:00Hey, this is what I'll say..beet juice is included. So that's all I'm gonna say at this point.Aaron 03:07 Mmmmm, snaps and clapsBanks 03:09I heard the pandemic ends. You know, we will get together and we will fine tune what this is we want to hear from you guys about what your ideas are. We'll try them all.Evan 03:21Okay, nothing beats a leech cocktail. Probably a great segue into something new this week, we're gonna have a new segment called “leech on a beach.” This is a segment dedicated to fun or humorous parts of the movies because we realize many of these movies are very serious and very grueling. And sometimes some levity is needed. Beyond our puns, we thought we wanted to really highlight leechy fun parts of movies. So stay tuned.Aaron 03:50Yeah, a little vacation, little vacation.Evan 03:52You can sip on your leech cocktailAaron 04:00for the leech on the beach segment. Evan 4:01 All right, so without further ado, Aaron, please teach us about some leeches with “leech anatomy 101”Aaron 04:08Leech Anatomy 101. This week and I'd like to talk to us about leeches teeth. leeches teeth. Couple years ago, 2019 they discovered a new leech. I'm looking at the News & Observer, Smithsonian researchers who discovered a new leech that had a three jaws each containing 56 to 59 teet--56 to 59--this is a leech that bites and bleeds humans. And so intriguing to me. You look imagine this you're looking like at a straw--this is like the leeches mouth--like three rows of teeth going down into like a little cave. Oh my goodness! This is the thing that's sucking on you! And as I was reading this article, the researcher said the way they discovered this leech was simply by walking into a swamp, just south of DC and Maryland. Walking into the swamp in shorts and flip flops, and seeing what would come up when they walked out? By golly, this little critter with 56 to 59 teeth per each three rows came up attached, greenish brown with some little orange speckles. And that's a leech with some teeth.Evan 05:26Wow. Thank you for that.Banks 05:28Thank you, question mark?05:48Those were some leech teeth. Wow. Okay.05:33teach us about leech-us.05:36So let's, let's all keep this in mind as we dive into this episode of the Leech Podcast. Our movie today, of course, is Pan's Labyrinth, a wonderful film directed by Guillermo Del Toro. And to give us a synopsis of this film, Banks, take it away.05:55Happy to! Obviously about to give a synopsis. So spoiler alert! If you haven't seen the movie, this would be a good time to pause it, go watch it, come back, the recording will still be here. It'll be well worth your time. But find the right time for this movie, that's for sure. It's not, not the one that you want to have to lighten the mood. But it's a wonderful film. Another quick thing is just a quick trigger warning. This is a film that has some pretty serious, just very heavy themes, especially around childbirth, but also it has some really nasty gore scene. Nothing absurd. This isn't a slasher film by any means. But you know, there are some things involving a razor blade that is, that'll stick with you a little bit like a leech. So just wanted to cover that, my guess is we might be talking about it. So just wanted to make sure those are out of the way. And make sure that y'all know about that before we listen to that. So this is a film that bridges between just some really brutal realities of the Spanish Civil War that really holds no punches at all. And then is also paired with some just wonderful wimzie of fantasy throughout. And so it's a film that goes back and forth. And the movie just sort of layers these in, almost like a very strange leechy layered cake of realism and fantasy. One after the other. The lead character is a little girl named Ophelia. And Ophelia is the daughter of Carmen, who is sort of pregnant with her younger brother. And the younger brother's father is named Vidal who is a captain of sort of the like, what is the faction called? I think that they're called the...Aaron 07:58Falangism? Yeah.Banks 08:00Is it the Falangist movement?Evan 08:01Yeah. So it's like fascist Spain. Right. Banks 08:02Yeah, you know, a very authoritarian regime. And so we're sort of thrown into the film and when they're sort of driving out to go meet the captain. And as they arrive Ophelia finds a labyrinth. And after doing that we're sort of then introduced from into this sort of fantasy realm where she meets a fawn, who then gives her a series of trials where she has to, you know, get a key from a toad and then she has to go and you know, get a dagger from a pale man at a feast, and then finally has to then take her younger brother into the labyrinth. And while all this is happening, at the same time, we have, you know, the mother struggling with sickness and childbirth and having traveled too soon. We're seeing the rebels battle in the Spanish Civil War into this gruesome detail, as hostages are detained and tortured. And it sort of escalates further and further as Ophelia progresses more and more in these different trials. And it's both happening as if these two stories are intertwined, but also, the contrast between the fantasy and the reality is incredibly stark, and the movie does a masterful job of balancing these two motifs, and playing them off of one another. And then finally at the end, the last trial Ophelia must take her younger brother into the labyrinth, where she then refuses to spill his her brother's blood. But then she is followed by Vidal, by her at this point stepfather, who then shoots her. And Ophelia dies in the final scene, because she refused to spill the blood of her innocent brother. And as she dies, we also get this sort of fantastic…. We're sort of swept up and taken to her then becoming a princess, the princess Moana of the underworld in a very positive sense. And then she is shown to be like, these have been what all the trials have been building towards, both in reality and out of reality, both at the same time. And so that's how this movie ends. It is an incredibly difficult movie, but also an incredibly powerful one. That I don't know about you guys, but I was left exhausted at the end of it.Evan 10:25Indeed, thank you. Thanks. So we're gonna move into our categories. Our first one is leechy themes. So Aaron, what was the theme? That was Leechy for you in this movie?Aaron 10:37I want him to talk about the theme of fatherhood in the film. I think I told you both that I watched this film for the first time many years ago. And actually before I was myself a father, and I had one reaction to it, then I think, I thought, you know, I, first of all, I never want to watch this movie again. And here I am having watched it a second time with you all. So it's stuck with me though it's stuck with me. But I have to say that being a father now my daughter is seven years old, beloved to me, and watching this movie about a young girl just a couple years older than my daughter go through a lot of suffering I... and without a father in her life to protect her ….or without it just she's an incredible danger so many times, and I think I had this experience of helplessness. As a father watching the film, like there's nothing I can do to help her protect this girl. And I mean, she's perfectly capable a lot of times of protecting herself. But I was intrigued by the ways in which like her in the absence of her father, becomes crucial to the film. And also the way in which fatherhood becomes one of the fantasy elements of the film. What do I mean? What do I mean? I was intrigued by the moment early in the film before Ophelia has met Vidal, who will become her who's her stepfather figure. Her mother says, “I want you to call him your father.” And Ophelia resists this notion so many times throughout the movie when Mercedes says, Oh, you know, your father wants you to call him. “He's not my father. He's not, he's not my father,” she resisted so heavily. And her mother says to her, “it's just a word. Say it. It's just a word.” “Pretend” is what her mother is saying. And that's one fantasy. She won't pretend like there's this deep allegiance to this missing father. And the last thing I'll say, is that Vidal also seems to have this obsession with fatherhood, he desperately wants to be a father--but only to a son. To the point that he...he almost seems cold and lifeless, totally uncaring, unfeeling when his wife dies, so long as the sun is preserved. And we know that's part of his character the whole time that he he only cares about the coming of the Son and his own becoming a father. And I'm intrigued both by, I'll be brief here the, the fixation on his watch. The broken watch, which his father without his father broke at the time of his own death, so his son would know when he died. And then, with Vidal, he sees the rebels with their guns, pointing at him he wants to break his watch. He wants to be remembered to have that same masculinist legacy. And Mercedes says, Your son will never know who you are, you will be erased. And there's something so painful about that, but it feels entirely deserved, like this kind of fatherhood is a reality that should be embraced.Evan 13:40Yeah, thanks. And I think to pick up on that. He's such an extreme version er has such an extreme understanding of fatherhood. And it fits a lot of other parts of his personality, right? He's the most brutal of anybody in the film. He shows no mercy to people who disagree. with him. And he is part of an ideology that is itself. So extreme. It's extreme nationalism. And, and he's not the only extreme character in the film. And I think that's why it's extremity or going to extremes is is my theme for the movie. There's revolutionaries, who will go to extreme measures to overthrow the fascists. Fantasy is woven throughout this film, which shows these extreme versions of reality, these extreme creatures, these extreme trials and quests, all that Ophelia has to undertake with these bloated toads, or this very, extremely pale man. And the film itself even kills a young girl, it's willing to take that step, this extreme step. And so I'm just struck by the extremes of this film, on a thematic level, on a personal level. But also the extremes of beauty in this film. It's funny, you guys had to convince me to watch it, because I thought it looked really scary. And I was so struck by how many scenes took my breath away, because they were so beautiful. And I left the film with a lot more questions. Just wondering, how do you hold together these extremes? And it seems like, somehow for Ophelia these extremes that she she is thrust into, due to choices made by her mom and her stepdad. Her answer is to go to her own kind of extreme, this extreme fantasy world, which is itself painful and scary at times. And yet, it's also beautiful. And it's this way in which she deals with the extreme situation she's in with an even deeper commitment to extreme beauty.Banks 15:30Yeah, it's, I think that Guillermo Del Toro's ability to create a beauty that is odd in some senses. But even when I watch it, you know, I also like Aaron said, I watched this back in high school, and I thought that, “This is such a cool movie. It's great.” And then I watched it again now and I'm like, Hey, this is an amazing movie and be Oof. Like, I was, I remember, you know, we all watched this together, and we were all speechless. For a minute. We were on a zoom call silent, together, just not knowing what to do with it. Partially because of the difficulty, but also because of the beauty of it, how it's masterful and putting that in terms of extremes just make so much sense. I don't know if Aaron, you had anything to say before I jump into mine?Aaron 16:29 No, please go aheadBanks 16:32I think that I just sent around the question of, it's about imagination and the question is this about imagination? Ophelia is fantasy world, something that is simply an escape from the traumatic reality that she's in. This interplay between trauma and imagination, for me, is incredibly powerful. You know, I was an art teacher for eight years. And as a result of that, just ended up being utterly inspired by students facing down incredible difficulty through art and imagination, to the point where I left and now I work in mental health. And so when I watch this movie, all I can, I'm asking, “Well, is this just about imagination as an escape? Or is this about something more than that?” I love that the film just creates this dynamic interplay between those two and we are just left to wonder left to be thoughtful with a bit of a mess at the end. You know, so much of the film is, you know, I think about the opening scene where she, Ophelia walks into the woods because her mother is experiencing morning sickness. And she finds this odd winged bug. And this, and she immediately knows that this is a fairy. And then in sort of in the seclusion and darkness as her mother sleeps back in the house, this transforms into an actual fairy that anybody could recognize, you know, with human form, and dragonfly wings. And it's that slippage. Is this happening? Is it not? Does she actually go into the door that she carves into a wall and face down the world's most frightening monster with eyes in his hands? Or is this simply a flight of fancy? And if it is, why does she fly to such frightening spaces? Why does she go to spaces that are not an escape that you'd want to go to? And I just think that that interplay is so powerful. And the power because it speaks to the power of stories and the power of imagination and the power of why we want to watch movies even to begin with. It's not because just escapism, it's because they speak to us for some reason in the midst of all of it. And that theme I have no resolution for. But man, it is stuck to me like a leech. I'll tell you what.Aaron 19:14Yea, Banks you just put a thought in my head that it's like. It's like in the world of reality she faces trauma and horror, and she has no no power, no quests, no influence. But she translates her trauma and horror into the language and symbology of myth. And then there she has agency in the myths, she has agency and influence and empowerment. And even though it's terrifying. And I just there's something about the creative space that is an empowering space, the fantasy space.Evan 19:47It's like the issue isn't the danger. The issue is agency. Yes. She's not afraid of danger. She's a brave girl. The issue is that with the doll, she's, she has no agency.Banks 20:03And with her mother's failing health. Yeah, yeah. I mean, what can you do? Right.Aaron 20:07Rather than put a Mandrake root in a bowl of milk. Banks 20:11Don't forget the blood. Aaron 20:13Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. More on that. Yes.Evan 20:19So indeed, more to come. So with those themes, the fatherhood extremes and imagination and trauma, let's think about some really specific things about this film. There are a number of leechy scenes that suck something out of you, but stick with you. I thought I would start. Mine in nothing very profound, I don't think but it is the scene where her first trial, where she goes down to find that key. And she meets this gigantic Toad, and she's in the muck underground. And it's just this large, bloated Toad, with bumps and weird colors and sounds. And it basically just, like explodes and belches out this key. And I don't think I'll ever forget it. And it's, it's stuck with me. So that's my scene.Banks 21:15Man. And I believe that there are things sticking on her and that seem to mean she's covered in. I remember, you're like texting to each other like, Oh, my gosh, she's covered in leeches! Evan 21:30It was very on brand for the Leech Podcast.Banks 21:35But like, she emerges from that, like from the stump covered in muck, right. And even then, right, she has been returned to the dinner party. Right, it's a moment of sort of the world, the extremes colliding, right. A powerful moment. You know, so for me, it's another one of the trial scenes, and oh my gosh, you know, I was alluding to it before but the scene with “the pale man” as it's called, right, with the feast of all the red foods, the murals of this devourer of infants sort of reminds me of Saturn Devouring his Children, this old like painting. Good heavens. It's frightening as anything. And here's this personification of all of that. with Hannah, the scene is literally it not only is very much just about the devouring of, you know, blood, and even the food is all red. All the foods are red. And blood is itself I think, a theme and a visual motif throughout the movie. But when I think of Pan's Labyrinth, unfortunately--I wish it wasn'--the image that comes to my mind is, you know, that pale man walking with his eyes in his hands next to his forehead. You know, full credit. I believe Doug Jones, the person who did sort of the body acting for that, and it's masterful work out amazing work and sort of practical special effects throughout this. That moment sticks with me and I think about it. And I don't want to be necessarily and I in the same way, I don't want that leech on me. Like when I think of the leeches scene, that's it. And it's an overflowing of imaginative imagery. It's full of these ripe themes. That also, it makes my skin crawl. So for me, that wins out. Aaron 24:03Yeah, it doesn't get much leecheir. I have to say, for me, I've scene that sticks with me and take something out of me is this scene of conflict, where I think it's one of the first times that I really remember in the film of Ophelia, and Vidal, her stepfather colliding. And it's the scene at her mother's bedside where Ophelia has been under the bed, tending to the Mandrake with the milk and the blood that she thinks is this healing agent that the Father has given her to help her mother's health and pregnancy. And Vidal finds the bowl and hurls the Mandrake root into the fire, and Ophelia turns and watches the child burn. And good lord, it's this moment of just incredible violence like talk about he who devours infants, he who destroys and is enemy to children, it has to be down. And then that moment, right, he again takes away all her agency, destroys that thing, where she's tried to take control of her mother's health. And you can just see all the foreshadowing in that moment that whatever fatherhood means to him, it's just gonna burn, it's gonna burn it's that moment is terrible.Banks 25:26Good heavens. Think about how that pulls together. I mean, talk about a moment where the extremes collide, the moment where it goes into the fire and you're wondering, is it just a weird root? They are, and then… it starts I can hear right now…Aaron 25:25[Shudders]Banks 25:26...the scream of that root. Oh, are those screams just in her head? Where are they? Are they real? It pulls together all the themes into this just melting pot of just discomfort. Oh, that scene, Aaron...I might have to change my vote.Evan 26:11I mean, these are very Leechy scenes and I guess I mean, Vidal is central in that last one. I mean, next you have a leechy, leechiest character because I feel like he would be in the running, perhaps. Banks 26:30Oh good heavens, I think he's a front runner. I mean, here's, here's the only thing. The reason why I actually don't have the doll as the front runner. Or as the leeches character in this case, is a leech is not the host. If nothing else Vidal is a person of conviction. He is a host... of evil in my opinion. I mean, he is the worst, but he is authentic. He believes and he has drunk the Kool Aid and he is all behind everything making no qualms about it.Aaron 27:12I mean, I think he has three rows of 56 or 59 teeth each Good lord.Banks 27:17I mean, but here's the thing I wonder if the leeches are the ones who are not even taking aside at all. And so I think of, if you look at the banquet, not the banquet that happens with the pale man, but of you know, you see a priest, you see all these people who are there, they're not the rebels. They're there just let me hold on to my wealth and I'm gonna say “Okay” to whatever. And to me that speaks a lot to politics right now. I I think that it's a that that might get a little too real but...Evan 27:49The priest, man….Banks 27:56So if I had to put my finger on an actual character though there, though it's Garces. He's the lieutenant under the Vidal. He's the one who's always uncertain. He [Vidal] always speaks to him. Like, “you know, do you know how a man dies? You know, go into battle. Don't be fair. Don't be afraid, you know, does that and then he just sort of learns that he dies and he just sort of has been. He's a character who was just leeching onto the host who is Vidal? Evil host that he is. He is he had he was spineless. And I'm gonna have to ask our anatomy expert. I'm gonna say Vidall has spine. But do leeches have spines?28:40I'm gonna hold that off until next episode, so those who want to get listening, we're gonna learn about leech spines on the next episode. Do they have spines? Stay tuned.28:51Good plug. Good plug. Aaron, do you have a leaky character?Aaron 28:57All right, let me think. I think I'm reading leechiness in a little bit of a different way. I'm, you know, Ophelia is always gonna be the character in this film, who sticks with me and take something out of me. And watching this watching her struggle, watching her overcome, and even like, stare down, stare down an armed man who wants to kill her? That's always gonna stick with me. Watching her refuse on the very cusp of achieving this mythic salvation that she's been hoping for watching her refuse to hurt the child in her arms. I'm not going to forget that. And that's, that's leads for me. So he does it hurts. take something out of me. But it's medicine. It's it's medicine too. That's what I have.Evan 29:50I think I'm interpreting my character similarly to you, Aaron. I first toyed with the idea of Vidal, which maybe we all did. Because he definitely sucks the life out of me. And kind of out of the film. I mean, every scene he's in, you're just like,”Ehhh” it's like fascism is exhausting. But like to quote Lebowski, thanks to your point Banks, “Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism? You know, it's an ethos.” He's terrible. Yeah, he has a spine, but it's in the worst ways, right? So I don't see some great lesson or there's no therapy for me in his life. And, and so the character that will stick with me, who I found myself drawn to again and again was Mercedes. I think she holds together these extremes of realism and fantasy in her own way. It is really beautiful. She is the most practical, the most inside the fascist place, knows everything, knows what's going on, has so much trust. And yet she's directing all of that towards this very idealistic thing, revolution, which is, and the bravery, the brilliance, the courage. It's so powerful, and I won't forget her character. And I mean, she has so many unforgettable, unforgettable scenes. And I think, to me... it I think it's fitting that she's the one who cuts Vidal. And she's the one who physically defeats him. She is, I think, the strongest character in the film. Yeah. I mean, many characters are strong, but to me, she, she seems to match Vidal in a certain kind of strength, a kind of political strength. And yet, even there, she does him because she cuts him but she doesn't kill him. She defeats him, but doesn't take his humanity from him. And so I just, I was so taken with her and she will stick with me. And I was so terrified the whole movie that she was going to die. And so in that sense, watching her journey and struggle, sucked the life out of me. Even though she ended up living at the end of the film. So Mercedes for me, is the Leechy character.Aaron 32:07There's something really fitting about her being, in a way she is, she is a mother figure to Ophelia. And many times she provides in ways that Ophelia's mother just can't. Because her life is being sucked out of her at least away from her by the child inside of her So Mercedes, also in a way becomes the recipient, I would say, of afilias sacrifice. Uh huh. She becomes the beneficiary. She won't ever forget a philia and therefore is a different person, I think, at the end of the film.Evan 32:44Okay, so listeners, we're gonna take a quick break. We're gonna pause now for our newest segment, “Leech on a Beach.”Evan 35:32I'll start us off. This is a scene that is, I wouldn't say necessarily light. It is very violent. But after Captain Vidal, gets his mouth sliced by Mercedes, he sews it back up himself with a mirror. Very painful, it looks terrible. And then, too, I guess, disinfected, he takes a sip of whiskey. And it comes out of the wound that he's just sewn up, and he spits it out because it's so painful. And maybe it says a lot about the state of my soul, but I laughed out loud at that moment. And that was my leechy scene, or not my Leechy scene my leech on a beach, in part because it also then made me think of Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight, and the Joker. And all I could think was “Why so serious?”Aaron 33:54Oh, I was gonna say, Evan, this is not what my experience of vacation looks like. Normally when I'm going to the beach, I'm hoping for a better vacation than you just gave me. But I'll uh, I'll answer that I'm gonna try and be a little more lighthearted. And that for me, like when How do I go on vacation in this movie, and this hard movie? I'm still getting the live site data man. I'm at the beach is still leech at the beach. For me, it's for me the character in the film. Who does that, for me is the character of the light. The sunlight in the film for me is its own character. Just like when I'm at the beach, you know? And if you watch scene by scene, the way that the light presents itself in the film, as as a golden light, or is this light clear as water at different moments in the forest? For me, that's when I find myself receiving ease and going on vacation in the middle of a hard film.Banks 34:56I think that Ophelia the actress is Ivana Bachero. She has one of the world's most authentic smiles. And you see it every time something fantastic occurs, she gives this smile. It's the smile that says there is good still, and there is joy still. And yet something can be well. And in spite of all the heaviness that happens, man, that's like a summer breeze on a sunny day. I will enjoy that every time. And it like there's this weird thing right? When she meets a fairy, she finds a rock and like, shoves it into like a statue as its eye and then like a little bug shoots out of his mouth. Everyone else in their sasne mind would freak out, she smiles.Evan 36:05So I think that's a good segue to our next category which is “Hirudo Therapy.” The fancy way of saying the medicinal value of leeches. And I think maybe I'll start us off. I think for me, the idea in this film, or the thing that sticks with me, that makes the film, not just painful, but also instructive, is kind of this idea that when you're in pain, you should dive deeper into what is beautiful. And yet also, as you do so, you become aware that beauty itself brings its own kind of pain. I'm just struck by the ways Ophelia in the midst of all the suffering that she's in, she she dies, she moves toward beauty, but even that beauty is scary and hard, but it's also what she needs, it seems. And so, I guess my lesson is that the opposite of pain isn't happiness or the absence of pain. It's beauty. Only beauty can re-narrate, or redirect, or bring a new kind of order to pain and loss.Banks 37:21And it's not because it's the opposite of it, right? It's just the next step. Right? It's the answer as you put it.Evan 37:30And I thought about, there's a quote attributed to Dostoevsky, which is “Only beauty can save the world.” And I think it's a great quote, I think it's true in many ways. And I looked into it a little bit. It comes from a passage in the novel The idiot. And it's in a scene where this Prince is looking at a painting of a woman. And he says, “So you appreciate that kind of beauty.” This woman asked the prince, he says, “Yes, that kind.” The prince replies with an effort. “Why?” She asks. “In that face, there is much suffering,” he says, as though involuntarily, as though he is talking to himself. “Beauty like that is strength.” One of the other women in the room declares, “One could turn the world upside down with beauty like that.”Aaron 38:20I think for me, I'd say elaborate on that. what I wanted to talk about, you said strength, but for me, it was courage, watching the different kinds of courage that made themselves felt and the film. I'm thinking of Dr. Ferrero, the physician who helps the ailing mother, he helps wounded soldiers on both sides. He doesn't have a side other than the side of life; life prevailing, life being protected. And watching him watching Mercedes, watching Ophelia, this watching these people in the most, these awful circumstances, have courage. Its both inexplicable it's deeply moral, it's, but it's one of the most real things in the film, and it's moving to me, and it's inspiring to me, and its Hirudotherapy.Banks 39:26At least in movie form. When I think of the medicinal quality of this movie it is the love of story of narrative. It's the fact that if you want to tell a story, you can put any two things your imagination wants together, and there's a way to tell that story in a way that will captivate and move. All you have to do is see a path between the two. And somehow in Guillermo Del Toro's mind--which I have want to be able to think like in half don't want, I don't know--he saw a way to narrate the sort of fantasy world, right? That would make JK Rowling envious, and combine that with the brutality of the Spanish Civil War, and he charted a path right through the both of them. And it worked.Aaron 40:27I'm coming back to that. Coming back to the idea of courage. I think that one of the things that Ophelia embodies in the heart of this film is that she decides to value and treasure stories. Against all odds and against constant contradiction from the adults around her are saying, “Get out of your fairytale books stop fleeing into fantasy, stop imagining.” And you're right, like, her resistance is an act of courage and it's, it's enshrining the value of story at the heart of the film.Evan 41:02How many leeches do we give this film?Aaron 41:06How many leeches?Banks 41:09One is the lowest four is the highest, if I'm not mistaken?Aaron 41:12Specifically because four leeches would take your life. Just kidding. That's not actually true. I'll tell you how many leeches it would take to take a life on a future segment. Keep listening.Evan 41:26It's a four point scale still, I know Aaron wanted to cut a leech in half and call that five leeches. Yeah, four leeches. I think is still the criteriaBanks 41:39I'm going to give it fourAaron 41:11Say more, say more.Banks 41:42When I think of movies that, you know, is that, as Evan said in the intro, the movies that you watch that stick with you, then you watch them again and they floor ya. That's what happened when I watched this movie again with you guys. And it's not because I didn't know this movie. Well, I think I'd seen it multiple times, it just had been five or 10 years. And it did for me. And it stuck with me ever since it stuck with me before then. It ain't pleasant. I think it's utterly medicinal. And here's the thing the medicinal part about it has changed for me. As I've grown, as I've moved into mental health, this movie has opened up new layers. And maybe I'm biased because I got this mental health side that I'm really focused in on and this movie clearly has a huge psychological element. But it speaks to me, I'm going to give it four leeches, and I don't care who knows it,Aaron 42:42Damn? Evan 42:43Bolt, I love it.Aaron 42:44I was gonna say I mean, come back to the idea of fatherhood. Let me also come back to the idea of people walking into swamps in shorts and flip flops. Oftentimes, when leech hunters would go into the swamps, and actually oftentimes collecting leeches on their own body for medicinal purposes that they could then take off put into a basket, give to a medical practitioner, they would have to wait at least, oftentimes 20 minutes, like leave a leech on for that long because it's so much easier to take a leech off. Once it's already full it lets go easier. And for me, this movie just kept taking it, I'm giving it three leeches because it for me, as a father watching the end in this film, it took too much. It took too much. And that's why I'm gonna give it three.Evan 43:48So I think I was in a slightly different position, because it's just the first time I saw it. And I'll admit it, I was speechless at the end of it. And yet, I had, I felt it was hard connect for me in certain ways. And yet, as time has gone on, since we've watched it, and I think especially through this conversation, I'm at three leeches as well. I was, I was at two for a little while, just because I felt like I didn't connect to it for some reason. But the more I sat with it, and kind of like what you were saying thanks about story and about the power of narrative and art to work through or work into trauma and pain. I do think this film is profound for that. So I'm a three leecher for this one.Banks 44:39These are high marks. I think that is a, we are holding out at a 3.25/4.Evan 44:49All right. Well that. That brings us to the end of another episode of The leech. Thanks to all our listeners, for tuning in. We would love to hear what you thought about this episode. Again. You can find us on Twitter @LeechPodcast and on Instagram at theLeechPodcast, please. Yes, suggestions, ideas. If there are leechy scenes that we missed, please send us clips, send us summaries, send us videos of you reenacting them! We want to see it all.Aaron 45:23Not all of us are going to watch that.45:29Please keep them appropriate. Please, yeah, talk to us. Tell us what you think about the pod. And we would love to hear from you. Thanks for tuning in. On behalf of Banks and Aaron, I'm Evan Cate. This is the Leech Podcast.