Podcasts about Balearic Islands

Mi entrevistado en este episodio es Ernest Cañada. Es coordinador de Alba Sud y docente de la Universidad de Barcelona. Investiga en torno al trabajo, los conflictos socioecológicos y las alternativas en el desarrollo turístico. Ha publicado: Viajar a todo tren. Turismo, desarrollo y sostenibilidad (Icaria, 2005, con Jordi Gascón); Turismo en Centroamérica: un nuevo escenario de conflictividad social (Enlace Editorial, 2010); Turismo placebo. Nueva colonización turística: del Mediterráneo a Mesoamérica y El Caribe. Lógicas espaciales del capital turístico (Enlace Editorial, 2011, con Macià Blàzquez); El turismo en el inicio del milenio: una lectura crítica a tres voces (FTR, 2012, con Jordi Gascón y Joan Buades); Turismos en Centroamérica. Un diagnóstico para el debate (Enlace Editorial, 2013); Turismo comunitario en Centroamérica. Experiencias y aprendizajes (Enlace Editorial, 2014).Notas del Episodio* Alba Sud y su historia* El despojo en Nicaragua* El surgimiento de turismo en Costa Rica como una herramienta neoliberal*  El Malestar en la Turistificación: Pensamiento Crítico Para Una Transformación de Turismo* El fin de turismo barato y el policrisis de hoy* Postcapitalismo y terminos complementarios* Monstruos peores* Aprender poner limites* La pluralidad de posibilidades de turismos postcapitalistasTarea* El malestar en la turistificación. Pensamiento crítico para una transformación del turismo - Icaria Editorial* Alba Sud - Facebook - Instagram - Twitter* #TourismPostCOVID19. Turistificación confinada* Ernest Cañada - Facebook - Instagram - TwitterTranscripcion en espanol (English Below)Chris: [00:00:00] Bienvenido Ernest, al podcast del fin de turismo. Ernest: Muchas gracias. Muy encantado estar aquí. Chris: igual es un gran honor poder hablar finalmente contigo. Mi pregunto si, pues, para empezar, si podrías decirnos de este, dónde hablas hoy y cómo es el mundo allá por ti? Ernest: Yo habitualmente resido en Barcelona, entre Barcelona y Mallorca, porque estoy entre la universidad de las Islas Baleares y Alba Sud, y en estos momentos estoy en Buenos Aires que estoy trabajando en una investigación sobre experiencias de gestión distinta, fuera de las lógicas del capitalismo. Y esto nos llevo a identificar distintas experiencias. Y ahora estoy empezando una investigación con el Hotel Bauen, a lo que fue el Hotel Bauen y a cerrado y la cooperativa que lo gestionó durante 20 años, Es parte el proceso que estamos haciendo, identificación [00:01:00] de experiencias diversas plurales que tienen que ver con como pensar la posibilidad de organizar el turismo bajo otros modos y esto nos elevado por caminos distintos de América Latina, de España. Y ahora estoy aquí.Chris: Pues gracias Ernest. Y si vamos a estar hablando de ese tema pero más allá de las vision que que hay, que existe, que podemos imaginar sobre un turismo post-capitalista o algo alrededor, algo así. Pero antes de meternos en eso, pues tú y yo hemos estado en contacto durante los últimos dos años, en parte debido a tu trabajo en el ámbito de los estudios críticos de turismo y a tu proyecto Alba Sud que en algunos de nuestros invitados anteriores incluidos de Ivan Murray, Robert Fletcher y Macia Blasquez ha participado.Me encantaría que pudieras contarme un poco [00:02:00] sobre Alba Sud, Ernest, su misión, su historia y su situación actual Ernest: Con mucho gusto. Ah, mira, Alba Sud nace en 2008. Legalmente lo habíamos legalizado antes por si algún grupo de compañeros por si algún día nos hacía falta, pero formalmente empieza a funcionar el año 2008 y empieza a funcionar en Managua, Nicaragua, que era donde yo residía en ese momento.Y fundamentalmente fue un acuerdo de personas que nos dedicábamos a la investigación y a la comunicación para trabajar con análisis críticos y al mismo tiempo propositivos en torno al turismo. Esto fue algo que fue original desde el principio, esta doble preocupación, por cómo pensar los impactos, los efectos que tenía el desarrollo turístico bajo el capitalismo y que tipo de dinámicas de violencia estructural y directa generaban y al mismo tiempo, cómo pensar posibilidades de salir de ese [00:03:00] marco de esas lógicas. Y eso fue un sello que desde el principio empezamos. Con los años Alba Sud fue creciendo, integrándose como una red de investigadoras e investigadores en turismo. Ahora tenemos presencia en 10 países en España, en Francia, en Europa, y luego en América latina, en la República Dominicana, en México, en El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Brasil, Uruguay y Argentina.Entonces es una red que conformamos gentes que nos dedicamos a distintos ámbitos de la análisis turístico y que compartimos espacios de trabajo y análisis e intervención política. Para nosotros, Alba Sud es un centro de investigación, pero no es un centro académico si nos preocupa menos las dinámicas académicas, aunque hay una parte de nuestro equipo de personas que colaboran que están en la universidad, distintas universidades. Lo que nos preocupa es cómo generar [00:04:00] conocimiento que sea útil para las comunidades, para las organizaciones comunitarias, para las asociaciones civiles, para sindicatos, para cuando es posible la administración pública. Es decir, intentamos generar conocimiento, análisis sistematización, propuestas que de alguna manera contribuyen a hacer visible las cosas que funcionan mal, que son un desastre que generan dolor en este mundo en relación con el turismo y al mismo tiempo, a pensar horizontes de esperanza.Este es un poco el propósito. Para ello, nos dotamos de eso de un equipo amplio de personas que colaboran unas más estrechamente con el día a día, otras que puntualmente colaboran y montamos básicamente nuestros trabajos se articula en torno a una web, la www.AlbaSud.Org, y lo estructuramos en trabajos de investigación que salen después en un formato [00:05:00] escrito por distintas formas, que luego te cuento un trabajo, además de la forma de la investigación, vinculado a la formación a poner a generar procesos de diálogo que nos permitan escuchar, reflexionar conjuntamente, poniendo en el mismo nivel personas que vienen de la academia con personas que tienen experiencias concretas de trabajo. Y finalmente, un ámbito más de incidencia política, más de acompañamiento organizaciones y de acompañarles para incidir políticamente. En el ámbito de la investigación, luego lo expresamos, básicamente a través de unos artículos cortos que hacemos, publicamos alrededor de 100, 110, 120 al año, que son artículos cortos de 2000-2500 palabras, que sabemos que son muy usados en las universidades, como material de discusión. Y un poco del propósito es este que se hiervan como pequeñas artículos bien escritos o intentamos que estén bien [00:06:00] escritos, que estén en un lenguaje simple, que la complejidad no tiene que ver con las palabrotas académicas que usamos, sino la profundidad del pensamiento que incorporan, pero que tienen que estar poder ser leídas por mucha gente.Tenemos esto. Luego, pusimos en marcha un sello editorial propio que es Alba Sud Editorial, en el cual tenemos una colección de libros, una de informes y recientemente una de policy brief más dirigidos a recomendaciones de política. Y básicamente Alba Sud eso. Es un espacio de encuentro entre personas que no nos resignamos a pensar que el desarrollo turístico necesariamente tenga que comportar esto, que estamos acompañando las resistencias, las luchas de los muchos males y violencias que genera este desarrollo capitalista a través del turismo y que al mismo tiempo, intentamos construir lo que decía antes "horizontes de esperanza" que nos permitan estimular la lucha y la resistencia, [00:07:00] pensando en en futuros más deseables que es creo que en estos momentos también necesitamos.Chris: Gracias, Ernest. Sí. Pues por lo que he visto, lo que he leído, lo que he encontrado ahi en el sitio de Alba Sud. Pues es, es una organización y sitio único en el mundo. Y pues yo tengo mucho honor de estar contigo hoy hablando de estas cosas y especialmente contigo como el fundador, Y entonces, para agregar, para profundizar un poco más de la historia, de tu historia, la próxima pregunta viene de nuestro amigo mutuo compañero Macía Blasquez a quien entrevisté en la temporada cuatro. Europa. Y el pregunta, "afirma que tú has sido entre muchas otras cosas activista en Centroamérica, como nos dijiste, y entonces él quiere saber cómo han cambiado tus opiniones y tu carrera de este [00:08:00] entonces?" Ernest: Buena pregunta.Ah, yo empecé a trabajar en Centroamérica acompañando. Bueno, primero pasé seis años que iba y venía. Estaba medio año en Centroamérica más o menos a otro medio en España. Y finalmente me quedé a trabajar en Nicaragua con una organización que se le llamaba "Luciérnaga" ahora "Ilegalizada," dedicada a la comunicación.Y desde ahí empezamos a organizar campañas de comunicación en distintos temas que tenían que ver con las necesidades y los derechos de la mayoría de la gente y de como estaban sufriendo procesos de despojo de posesión. Y trabajamos en torno a temas que tenían que ver con la salud y los derechos sexuales o reproductivos o la soberanía alimentaria. Y en una de estas, organizamos una campaña que duró cuatro años de investigación y comunicación sobre turismo. En un contexto, estoy hablando del año [00:09:00] 2004-2008, en el cual Nicaragua se estaba abriendo al turismo en esos momentos. Y entonces identificábamos claramente los altos niveles de violencia que eso podía comportar con procesos de desplazamiento.Y había que acompañar a las comunidades en esas dinámicas, y que además eran compartidas en El Salvador, en Guatemala, en Honduras, en Costa Rica y al mismo tiempo, empezar a pensar posibilidades de "si era posible utilizar el turismo bajo el control de las propias comunidades." Esa fue mi mi inserción en el mundo fundamentalmente del turismo.Y a partir de ahí, después de trabajar unos cuatro años en Luciérnaga y pusimos en marcha Alba Sud y en parte recuperamos en Alba Sud esa especialización vinculado con el turismo. Pensábamos, y es algo que hemos reflectado muchas veces con Ivan Murray que también le entrevistaste que no nos estábamos dando cuenta desde el mundo de las [00:10:00] izquierdas de la importancia que tenía el turismo para el funcionamiento al capitalismo.Y a veces cuando decíamos que nos necesitábamos al turismo, la gente lo tomaba como algo como irrelevante, como algo superficial, incluso casi jocoso como te gusta viajar, verdad? Y entonces era como, como no darse cuenta de, por un lado, como sobre todo desde la aplicación de los programas neoliberales, cómo el el turismo estaba ayudando a expandir los procesos de desarrollo capitalista, pero al mismo tiempo, como tenía una segunda función muy importante que era, cómo ayudaba a a estabilizar los desórdenes que provocaba ese mismo programa neoliberal? Recuerdo que me impresionó mucho trabajando en Costa Rica cuando me di cuenta que el año 1985, cuando se aplican los programas de ajuste estructural, [00:11:00] una de las cosas que se hace es desmontar el CNP, que era el consejo nacional de producción, que era lo que permitía durante bastantes años, que el campesinado costarricense tuviera la seguridad de que los granos básicos, frijoles, arroz, maíz tenía donde venderlos con precios estables. Y esto le daba seguridad al campesinado. Esto el año en el marco de la aplicación de esas políticas neoliberales que eran de hecho un chantaje, decir bueno, en un contexto de crisis de la deuda o aplicas determinadas programas políticos para liberalizar el comercio o no tienes apoyo en ese contexto, la contrapartida de achicar el estado y reducirlo.Y uno de los ejes de disminución del gasto público fue, por ejemplo, desmontar el CNP, este consejo nacional de producción. Y a cambio, lo que se pedía al campesinado estimularlo en la producción [00:12:00] de cultivos que tuvieran supuestamente mejor inserción en el mercado internacional para atraer la llegada de divisas.Y ahí se promovía la vainilla, la curcuma, la pimienta, productos que al final no acabaron de funcionar. Pero al mismo tiempo se promovió el turismo rural como un mecanismo para que el campesinado, por una parte, aportara con esa desarrollo de servicios turísticos divisas, al mismo tiempo le permitiera estabilizarse y no comprometerse en una dinámica que tenía que ver con el sufrimiento que estaban viviendo, que estaban generando procesos migratorios muy grandes.Entonces, con Iván, una de las cosas que reflexionábamos es, esto del turismo empieza a ser muy importante para el capitalismo. Y después de la crisis de 2008 creo que tuvimos bastante conciencia de que la dinámica de solución que encuentre el capitalismo para su [00:13:00] reproducción en parte tiene que ver con la expansión del turismo.Y esto lo hemos visto después de la crisis de la COVID con la pandemia que tuvimos en la cual... recuerdo perfectamente una llamada que nos hicimos con Iván, decíamos no nos puede pasar en 2020 lo mismo que nos pasó en 2008, que no nos dimos cuenta hasta mucho después de lo que estaba ocurriendo. Y por tanto, dijimos "paremos todas las publicaciones que tenemos pendientes y pidamos a todo el equipo amplio que está en torno de Alba Sud, pongámonos a reflexionar y analizaron que nos equivoquemos, pero pongámonos a analizar que cambios supone esto." Y en ese memento, alguna gente se reía de nosotros. Decía que seamos futurologia, que si habíamos convertido Alba Sud en una bola de cristal y que pretendíamos invocar el futuro. Y de hecho, lo que intentábamos hacer era el análisis desde la economía política para entender qué es lo que nos venía encima y de alguna manera, respondiendo a la pregunta que nos hacía [00:14:00] Macia, yo creo que lo que ha cambiado mi pensamiento es la intuición.O sea lo que antes era una intuición de que debíamos trabajar, generando conocimiento fuera de las lógicas de la reproducción académica y teníamos que generar conocimiento vinculado a los problemas sentidos por la gente más desfavorecida, que esa institución estaba en lo cierto y que había un espacio para hacer eso y que era necesario hacerlo.Y que este era un espacio que debíamos construir en relación con el mundo de las universidades de la academia, pero independiente de él, pero también independiente de las empresas, que es lo que vimos que también les había ocurrido algunas ONGs que durante años trabajaron tratando de generar algún tipo de pensamiento en torno de turismo, pero que rápidamente habían caído en una cierta trampa de pensar que era posible incidir en las empresas, generar dinámicas de responsabilidad, etcétera. Y nosotros pensamos que la cosa no iba por ahí, que la cosa tenía que ver con cómo [00:15:00] fortalecíamos otros actores para que pudieran combatir, resistir y construir cosas fuera de los marcos del capitalismo. Entonces, yo creo que, no sé si cambiaron muchas las cosas en términos de pensamiento, pero si se consolidó una convicción de lo que empezamos a hacer de una forma un poco intuitiva, se acabó convirtiendo en un espacio de investigación, de colaboración, de acompañamiento, de formación, de ciencia política para para un montón de gente que está vinculado con el turismo.Chris: Yeah. Gracias, Ernest. Pues yo siento que esa intuicion ha abierto un montón en los últimos años. Y hay un montón de gente en muchos lados, normalmente los lugares turisteados o sobreturisteados dando cuenta y dando cuenta no solo de [00:16:00] las consecuencias, pero de los patrones y pues, a dónde vamos con los patrones o canales de turismo convencional, pero también, como dijiste, en el turismo, como un gran factor dentro de la expansión y destrucción del capitalismo en nuestro tiempo. Entonces, a través de Alba Sud y Icaria Editorial en España, ustedes han publicado recientemente una antología titulada El Malestar en la Turistificación: Pensamiento Crítico Para Una Transformación de Turismo. Hay toneladas de capítulos fascinantes, tengo que decir, de excelentes autores y investigadores, incluidos trabajos que hacen referencia Silvia Federici y David Harvey, Pierre Biourdeau, Donna Haraway, Foucault, Graeber, y Ursula Le Guin, entre otros. [00:17:00] Estoy curioso, Ernest, cuál fue el impulso detrás de la creación de este antología? Ernest: Muchas veces, buena parte de las cosas que hacemos o que impulsamos de que son más grandes, vienen de una llamada telefónica con Ivan Murray y nos llamamos decimos, "tenemos que hacer esto, tenemos que hacerlo otro."Y de estas llamadas, lo que acabamos, y luego es algunos elevándolas a cabo. En este caso concreto, recurrentemente, teníamos una reflexión que cada vez era menos interesante leer sobre el turismo o que nos interesaba menos leer sobre turismo y que para entender el turismo, necesitábamos leer otras cosas. Y incluso la gente que nos dedicamos a los análisis críticos del turismo, nos dábamos cuenta de que estábamos leyendo mucho solamente entre nosotros.Y que de alguna manera estábamos reproduciendo lo mismo que le pasaba la academia vinculada al turismo. Es una academia muy endogámica, [00:18:00] muy auto concentrada que discute los mismos temas que se cita unos a otros y nos dábamos cuenta que de alguna manera, los que nos dictábamos a la crítica y a la propuesta fuera de esos marcos, teníamos el riesgo de no estar captando parte de la complejidad que tenía el desarrollo turístico en la medida que este se estaba haciendo cada vez más grande y que estaba penetrando en más esferas de la vida. Y ahí la idea fue, necesitamos hacer cuando compartíamos con Iván y luego se sumó Clément Marie dit Chirot, que es un profesor de la Universidad de Angers, que colabora también con con Alba Sud.De ahí surgió la idea de decir bueno, nos compartíamos tú que estás leyendo, que te está interesando. Y ahí empezamos a compartir autores y autoras. Y nació la idea deberíamos hacer algo con esto. Hicimos un primer seminario en Barcelona sobre la obra de David Harvey y en Lefevbre de qué nos pueden aportar estos dos autores a la comprensión [00:19:00] actual del desarrollo turístico.Y fue un seminario por eso el libro en parte, a veces la gente dice, por qué tanto Harvey y tanto Lefevbre, porque el origen del libro tenía que ver con este primer seminario que fue una prueba, un ensayo, de cómo podemos hacer que autores que no necesariamente han hablado sobre turismo, cómo podemos hacer que dialogan con nuestro objeto de de análisis?Y ahí hicimos un poco el mismo llamado que habíamos hecho en 2020 en cuando empezamos a trabajar en torno de la pandemia, que eso se convirtió en dos libros. Uno que fue Turistificación Confinada y otro Turismos de Proximidad, que fue el mismo proceso de empezar a preguntar a nuestros colegas, amigos, compañeros y compañeras, en qué estaban trabajando, que estaban viendo que estaban...Pues hicimos lo mismo, empezar a preguntar en nuestro entorno del equipo de Alba Sud, personas que colaboran, qué autores estaban leyendo que les interesaba y que no hubieran hablado antes de turismo? Y como [00:20:00] podíamos hacer el ejercicio de llevarlos a los análisis turísticos con el fin de robustecerlos, de hacerlos más sólidos, de incorporar dimensiones que si solamente nos fijábamos en lo que veníamos leyendo y escribiendo sobre el turismo, a lo mejor se nos estaban escapando. Por supuesto, nos quedaron un montón de trabajos de referencias fuera de este marco, es decir nos salía un volumen con 25 capítulos y nos podía haber salido perfectamente un segundo volumen, que es algo que no descartamos, pero no en términos inmediatos por el cantidad de trabajo que también supone.Pero si logramos poner en diálogo una serie de personas que nos permitían, de alguna manera, enriquecer el análisis turístico y brindar a gente que se estaban metiendo en determinados temas desde el ámbito de la comprensión, de lo como funciona el turismo, encontrar referencias teóricas, críticas con el capitalismo que le pudieran ayudar a [00:21:00] como mínimo, abrir caminos, entender qué lecturas podríamos hacer a partir de ellas.Seguro que hay autoras o autores que podrían haber tenido otro tipo de lectura, pero es la que hicieron las personas que colaboran con nosotros y de alguna manera era una de las posibles lecturas. Y bueno, ese es el origen del libro y la motivación. Chris: Ajá. Y me gustaría preguntarte sobre, pues, tu capítulo sobre Eric Ollin Wright, pero antes de eso, me gustaría preguntarte qué tipo de reflexiones te sorprendiste más fuera de tus propios investigaciones? Ernest: Sí, Ivan, Clemente y yo no solo lemos, sino que editamos y discutimos todos los capítulos.Tuvimos que rechazar lamentablemente también algunos. En algunos casos, había gente que nos mandó escritos que eran más complejos que el propio autor. Elegimos necesitamos que se entienda o en otros casos, la lectura no nos interesaba mucho. [00:22:00] No fue que aceptáramos todo, en este proceso.Y para mí, uno de los descubrimientos fue Jason Moore y el trabajo que hizo Iván con él para pensar o plantear la hipótesis del fin del turismo barato. Esto ha dado lugar un proyecto de investigación en el que estamos en la Universidad de Las Islas Baleares, con el grupo CRIGUST en el que estoy trabajando, pensando decir, bueno, qué significa este escenario de emergencias crónicas, esta dinámica, la cual el capitalismo ha funcionado a partir de la lógica de disponer de naturalezas baratas... qué significa si esto empieza a acabarse? Y hasta qué punto este modelo de desarrollo turístico que hemos tenido las últimas décadas en realidad no está objeto a demasiadas tensiones? Está demasiado en crisis y habría que tal vez plantear la hipótesis del fin del turismo barato, pero la [00:23:00] apertura de nuevos escenarios y sobre esta hipótesis estamos estamos desarrollando un proyecto de investigación y de alguna manera también ha servido para nosotros desde Alba Sud para pensar los escenarios de esta dinámica de reactivación. Decir no, no todo es igual a lo que venía siendo antes. Yo creo que para entender el memento actual del desarrollo turístico a nivel global, hay que situarnos en dos crisis:ya antes mencionamos el programa neoliberal y como el neoliberalismo incorpora el turismo con un mecanismo de expansión por al mismo tiempo de estabilización. Pero las dos últimas crisis la de 2008 y 2020 generan un salto de escala en términos de turistificación, un proceso turistificación global como nunca habíamos vivido, siendo un salto exponencial, en parte porque después de la crisis de 2008 se produce una situación en la cual las vías que habían optado a través de los préstamos [00:24:00] bancarios, la construcción, hipotecas, etcétera, colapsa y no es posible seguir reproduciendo el capital a través de esas vías. Y esto necesita encontrar otros mecanismos a traves de los cuales el capital se puede reproducir. Ahí, david Harvey ha hablado muchas veces de la importancia que tiene la urbanización de China en este proceso de salida de la crisis de 2008. Nosotros entendemos que, además de esto, el papel del turismo es clave. No es casualidad que una empresa como Airbnb nazca en 2008, que se produzca esta expansión del turismo urbano. Es decir, tiene que ver con esta lógica. Y la pandemia de alguna manera lo que hace es detener, pero al mismo tiempo, una salida, una reacción de los capitales muy agresiva por recuperar lo que no han ganado en los años anteriores.Y por tanto, se produce como una vuelta de tuerca más en esta dinámica. En este punto, para eso no es útil el pensamiento de Jason Moore, que yo lo leo fundamentalmente [00:25:00] como aportación de Iván Murray en esta obra que hacemos, en el malestar de la turistificación. Esta hipótesis del fin del turismo barato que planteamos a partir de la relectura de Jason Moore, lo que nos permite pensar es, o interpretar más bien , la dinámica de redituación es igual que la anterior a la crisis o hay algo cualitativamente distinto? Y hay algo cualitativamente distinto, porque estamos ante un escenario de riesgo para este desarrollo capitalista vinculado a las naturalezas baratas.Y ahí es donde nos damos cuenta que, en parte hay un efecto champagne, que cerca las reactuaciones no has podido viajar durante dos años y cuando hay la apertura, la gente sale. Pero más allá de esto y que nos expresa en estos últimos años de una forma desmesurada de tenemos turismo en los destinos más purificados, turismo de todo tipo, desde lujo a despedidas de [00:26:00] soltero o de soltero, que no alquilan ni una habitación, que sencillamente pasan de noche el viernes y el sábado de fiesta y se va en el domingo y ya está. O sea, tenemos de todo.Y ahí es donde recupero a Jason Moore y la ideas del fin de las del turismo barato, este riesgo de fin de turismo barato, lo que nos empezamos a dar cuenta es que empieza a ver una mayor competencia entre territorios, entre ciudades, por atraer un turismo de mayor poder adquisitivo. Se dan cuenta que hemos salido de la crisis y hay una serie de emergencias crónicas o lo que algunos le llaman policrisis que siguen estando presentes, que tienen que ver con el cambio climático, con la crisis de combustibles o la crisis energética y la crisis de materiales con las interrupciones a las cadenas globales de suministros, con las tensiones geopolíticas. Y todo esto nos ponen alerta de los riesgos que tiene el [00:27:00] desarrollo turístico. Si estamos en un escenario muy vulnerable. Además, después de la salida, empezamos a ver que hay un nivel de destrucción de los ecosistemas enorme, que no decir, esta lógica de crecimiento constante es inviable, porque hemos superado con mucho la capacidad del planeta y en ese contexto también vemos otro naturaleza barata que empieza a ser cuestionada, que es el trabajo, es decir la idea de la renuncia, de la dimisión, y uno de los grandes problemas que tienen las empresas en estos momentos es la falta de personal, gente que no quiere trabajar ahí y que busca trabajo en otros sitios.Entonces, en ese contexto que llamamos de emergencias crónicas que además se retroalimentan unas con otras, lo que empezamos a ver es que los capitales, a través de las autoridades públicas en distintos territorios, empiezan a competir por atraer un turista de mayor poder adquisitivo. Buscan cómo concentrar esa franja de segmento [00:28:00] turístico que va a ser menos sensibles a situaciones de crisis, que va a seguir viajando y cómo traerlo.Y implica un programa de gasto público enorme en términos de infraestructuras para traerlos en términos de promoción internacional, términos de macro-eventos para consolidar esa atracción. El problema es que, por definición, los turistas de mayor poder adquisitivo son mucho menos que la clase media o las clases trabajadoras en las que se ha sentado el turismo en las últimas décadas.Y por tanto, esa competencia entre territorios, por atraer ese segmento turístico de mayor poder adquisitivo, se incrementan. Es una competencia feroz por atraer a ese tipo de turistas y yo creo que estamos en este en este contexto. Y yo creo que no nos hubiéramos dado cuenta si una de las hipótesis posibles que formulamos a partir del libro en Malestar en la Turistificación no fuera precisamente esta [00:29:00] idea que extraemos de Jason Moore sobre el fin de las naturalezas baratas.La otra hipótesis tiene que ver con el trabajo que desarrolla a partir de Erik Ollin Wright sobre las posibilidades y cómo de transformar el sistema capitalista, hablando también desde el turismo, que es algo que Erik Ollin Wright nunca hizo, pero no sé si querías que habláramos ahora de él o o como quieres que lo planteemos.Chris: Pues sí, sí, me encantaría si podrías platicar un poco sobre Erik Ollin Wright, porque escogiste el específicamente, pero también para empezar, porque el capítulo que escribiste está titulado como un Turismo Postcapitalista: Siguiendo Los Pasos de Erik Ollin Wright.Entonces, antes de meternos en sus obras y su trabajo me gustaría preguntarte, pues, cómo defines Postcapitalismo?Ernest: Yo parto un posicionamiento anticapitalista. Y no tengo ninguna duda. Si me [00:30:00] opongo a a este modelo de producción, creo que nos lleva el desastre tanto en términos humanos como planetarios. Desde esa posición de esa convicción anticapitalista, lo que plantea es la necesidad de encontrar salidas que nos lleven a otro escenario.Podríamos llamarle socialismo. Podríamos llamarle ecosocialismo. No lo sé. Me interesa más pensar la posibilidad de pensar horizontes que escapen del capitalismo. Este es el posicionamiento. A veces hay gente que duda, porque una cosa o la otra. No una cosa o la otra. Si partimos del anticapitalismo para intentar construir algo fuera del capitalismo, pero no es algo tampoco mecánico, es algo que construimos. No es una fase superior del capitalismo. Después del capitalismo podría ser formas de violencia y de explotación mucho mayores. Es algo que tenemos que construir. Entonces, la idea es no resistimos, confrontamos con las lógicas capitalistas y desde [00:31:00] intentamos construir algo distinto, algo que podemos llamarle metafóricamente del momento postcapitalismo, pero no es contradictorio una posición con la otra. A partir de ahí, yo, sinceramente, estoy en este camino de buscar como pensar las posibilidades de transformación. Esto lo tenía claro. Y cuando me acerco a distintos autores, Erik Ollin Wright no era un autor que me resultaba especialmente simpático. Venía de una tradición socialdemócrata. Venía del marxismo analítico, que era algo que no especialmente me seducía.Si me interesaba una cosa especialmente de su obra, que era el rigor metodológico en las formas de analizar la sociedad. Esto me a atrevía especialmente. Es decir, salir fuera de las metáforas y del lenguaje a veces tan obtuso del marxismo y empezar a construir utilizando las mejores herramientas de las que disponemos en un determinado memento desde las ciencias [00:32:00] sociales.Esto reconozco que era algo que sí que me atraía, pero no es necesariamente todo el pensamiento de Erik Ollin Wright y Erik Ollin Wright me interesa partir de leer Utopía Reales y después Como Ser Anticapitalista en el Siglo XXI, por la visión que tiene. El lo que hace es un intento de recuperar distintas tradiciones de la izquierda para pensar un programa de acción complementario.Y a mi, esta idea me seduce especialmente, cómo pensamos en términos complementarios. Es decir cómo la acción de uno es la que uno puede hacer, la que uno desea hacer o la que las condiciones le han marcado, pero no son mejores ni peores que las que hace el otro compañero que está desde otra trinchera y como dejamos de competir por cuál es la mejor idea y empezamos a reconocernos que unos están intentando transformaciones desde el ámbito, de la lucha política parlamentaria, otros lo hacen desde del mundo sindical, otros desde del mundo [00:33:00] ecologistas y otros de cooperativismo. Reintegrar, repensar conjuntamente esas distintas tradiciones de acción de la izquierda.Me parecía que era algo necesario. Discrepo en una posición de Erik Ollin Wright que no acabo compartir, que es esta idea de negar la posibilidad de la revolución. Y me explico, Erik Ollin Wright dice en parte como buen social demócrata, lo que viene a decir es, después de las experiencias históricas, es fácilmente reconocible que cuando hemos tomado el poder después de un proceso revolucionario, las dinámicas que hemos generado después casi han sido peores que contra lo que combatíamos. Y probablemente tenga razón.Y yo he vivido 11 años en Nicaragua y sé de lo que estoy hablando. Se de qué significa los supuestos nuestros cuando están en el poder. Entonces, cuidado con esta idea, la simple toma del poder en [00:34:00] nombre de una bandera, de una determinada cristalización ideológica es ya un futuro deseable y mejor. Cuidado porque efectivamente generamos monstruos peores.Pero lo que discrepo con Erik Ollin Wright es que, si bien, en sí misma la toma del poder no te garantiza una sociedad ni mucho más justa, ni mucho más equitativa, sino que al final, muchas veces lo que te encuentras son dinámicas de estabilización de nuevos grupos que ascienden al poder y desde ahí ejercen el control.Pero lo que sí, quiero que no podemos renunciar a la idea de la movilización social, incluso de la toma del poder político como un mecanismo defensivo, como un mecanismo de respuesta ante el desorden que genera el capitalismo. En estos contextos, aunque fuera para salvaguardar dinámicas democráticas, aunque fuera para salvaguardar, creo que no podemos renunciar a la herramienta [00:35:00] revolución, pensado probablemente en términos defensivos no ofensivos, si no pensando que vamos a cambiar y vamos a generar un mundo mejor a partir de la toma del poder inmediata. Pero sí, salvaguardarlo como un mecanismo defensivo ante la lógica del avance del desorden que genera el capitalismo, la posibilidad de restaurar ciertos equilibrios a través de procesos revolucionarios.Creo que esta es la idea que recuperamos de Walter Benjamin cuando dicen que a veces se marca como la revolución, como la locomotora de la historia y el dice más bien, es el freno de mano. Es decir, es ante el despeñadero pensar en esto. Bueno, esto mi distancia de esta posición tan categórica de Erik Ollin Wright, pero en cambio, me parece interesante cómo construir una posibilidad de un mundo post capitalista a partir de cuatro grandes estrategias o vías de lo que ella denomina erosión del [00:36:00] capitalismo. O sea si no es posible darle la vuelta de inmediato, probablemente habrá que pensar en un tránsito a largo plazo en el cual este orden capitalista he agujereado desde distintos ámbitos de intervención y fundamentalmente desde el estado y desde fuera del estado.Y él plantea esta idea del desmantelar, domesticar, huir y resistir como formas de intervención. Y yo lo que hago en el capítulo es subir, bueno, si el turismo es tan importante en el capitalismo, cómo podríamos pensar estas categorías, estas dinámicas de ejes de intervención que contribuyen a erosionar el capitalismo de ir agujereándolo, de ir creando nuevas lógicas, aunque sean frágiles, aunque sean temporales, pero como mostrar, y como de algún modo ir asentando y que iba creciendo áreas de funcionamiento social que no reproducen las lógicas del capitalismo, sino que [00:37:00] avancen en otras direcciones. Y esto en un largo proceso que nos vaya avanzando, que nos permite avanzar.Y yo lo que intento hacer es cómo podría ser esto desde el turismo? Y ahí implica, por una parte, la intervención desde el estado, es decir por un lado, desde el estado, entendiendo al estado cómo la cristalización de una determinada correlación de fuerzas en un determinado memento. Podríamos pensarlo en términos de, bueno, es la reproducción de, es el mecanismo que tienen las clases dominantes para reproducir bien. Yo quiero más bien siguiendo otros autores de la tradicion marxista, como Poblanzas y otros más bien entendiendo como una cristalización de una determinada correlación de fuerzas. Y esto puede cambiar. Bien, desde esa perspectiva, pensar como desde el estado, podemos intervenir abriendo dinámicas que funcionen fuera de las lógicas del capitalismo. Una de ellas que no significa que sean necesariamente anticapitalistas, que a veces ayudan a [00:38:00] estabilizar el mismo capitalismo, pero pueden ser leídas de múltiples maneras.Una de ellas tiene que ver con esta idea de ponerle límites al capital, introduciendo mecanismos de control, de regulación, de fiscalidad. Es decir desde la inspección del trabajo hasta la fiscalidad hasta las tonificaciones en determinadas ciudades de qué se puede hacer, si podemos permitir más hoteles o no podemos permitirlos, cierto?Todo esta dimensión de "desde el estado," cómo ponemos mecanismos de limitación y contención al desarrollo de capital turístico? Otra vía, otra estrategias, como desde el mismo estado, generamos igual que por ejemplo, hemos hecho en algunos países en el ámbito de la salud o en el ámbito de la educación, cómo establecemos programas públicos que garanticen el acceso a las vacaciones, al descanso, etc. de una parte de la población, con programas de turismo social, [00:39:00] con creación de infraestructuras, desde parques urbanos a mejora transporte público, acompañamiento los programas de la economía social y solidaria, el cooperativismo. Es decir cómo desde el estado generamos dinámicas que contribuían a garantizar el acceso de los sectores más desfavorecidos a vacaciones. La tercer eje de intervención de que plantea Erik Ollin Wright tiene que ver con la idea de resistir resistir fuera del estado, es decir, resistir en el combate a este desorden que genera el capitalismo, el capital turístico.Y esto implica resistir desde dentro de las empresas con las organizaciones sindicales, pero tremendas de fuera desde los movimientos comunitarios, ecologistas, vecinales, es decir, ponerle límites al capital, no solamente esperando lo que va a hacer el estado con políticas públicas, sino que hacemos de forma organizada colectivamente dentro y fuera de las empresas.[00:40:00] Y la cuarta dimensión de esta proceso de entender mecanismos de erosión del capitalismo y en este caso, del capitalismo de base turística, sería la idea de huir. Hay que salir ya hoy y aquí de este mundo capitalista. Y esto implica crear cooperativas, ensayar formas de organización distinta que nos permitan garantizar vacaciones, descanso, formas diversas de construir el ocio que pueden incluir el desplazamiento.Y esto podemos hacerlo fundamentalmente desde las organizaciones comunitarias, desde el ámbito de las cooperativas, pero también desde fuera del mercado. Es decir, si la tutela del estado y si la tutela del mercado. Es decir, reorganización del ocio popular sin pasar por el mercado. Esto que en algunos países llamamos domingueros, dominguiar, hacer uso del día del señor para [00:41:00] descansar o tocarnos las narices o leer debajo un árbol. Es esta idea de hacer lo que queramos de forma autoorganizada, en colectivo o individualmente. Es decir, abrir estos espacios. Entonces yo creo que estas cuatro dimensiones es lo que nos permite pensar la posibilidad de una transformación del turismo bajo otras lógicas. Y aquí creo que hay que introducir un matiz porque a veces siento que hay una cierta confusión, como si todo fuera un problema de palabras. Es decir que nos negamos a utilizar la palabra turismo porque es una palabra que es capital.Bueno, nosotros, lo que reivindicamos fundamentalmente es el tiempo libre, el tiempo liberado del trabajo. Esto es lo que nosotros reivindicamos. Y creo que eso es lo que tenemos derecho a el tiempo que liberamos del trabajo para poder hacer lo que necesitemos en términos de descanso, de alimento de nuestro pensamiento, de goce, de desarrollo, de posibilidades.[00:42:00] Esto es lo que nos interesa. Y esto se puede organizar en el propio lugar de residencia en tu espacio próximo de residencia en términos de ocio, de entretenimiento, de recreación. Pero si implica desplazamiento, es cuando empezamos a hablar de turismo y este turismo, podemos organizarlo que implica ocio más desplazamiento.Esto podemos organizarlo, que es como hemos hecho hasta ahora, bajo las lógicas del capitalismo para reproducir el capital o podemos organizar este ocio con desplazamiento para satisfacer necesidades humanas. Y ahí es donde creo que tenemos el centro de la propuesta. Es decir, cómo pensar que una práctica humana, una práctica social no pueda ser solamente definida por las lógicas de reproducción del capital, sino que tenemos que poder desarrollarla bajo otras lógicas. Y esta es la reivindicación. Es decir, no resignarnos a que solamente el [00:43:00] capital organice nuestras vidas. Hay una frase de David Harvey que tiene toda la razón cuando dice no hay ninguna idea moralmente buena que el capitalismo no pueda compartir en algo horroroso.Y tiene toda la razón. El capitalismo tiene la capacidad para hacer esto, pero nosotros también pensamos que al mismo tiempo, no hay ninguna práctica social que no podamos organizar bajo otras lógicas distintas a las del capitalismo, que un mundo socialista, un mundo ecosocialista, podría ser organizado bajo otras lógicas y eso tiene que empezar ya ahora y aquí. No esperar a que venga una revolución y no sabemos cómo saldremos de ésa, sino que tenemos que empezar a organizarlo ya ahora y aquí. Yo creo que esta es la segunda hipótesis con la que construimos a partir de este libro del Malestar en la Turistificacion, que creo que, como mínimo a mí, hay muchísimas más lecturas del libro.Pero a [00:44:00] mí esta idea que extraemos de Jason Moore en torno al fin del turismo barato y la disyuntiva entre elitizacion o empezamos a pensar propuestas de transformación que den respuesta a las necesidades de la mayoría social, esta segunda hipótesis es lo que creo que sale con más fuerza de este libro. O como mínimo es mi lectura.Estoy seguro que otras compañeras y otros compañeros han hecho otras lecturas del del libro y les está estimulando para hacer otras cosas. Y creo que esa es la potencia que tiene el libro, que es empezar a robustecer el pensamiento crítico en turismo con abriendo nosotros posibilidades. Chris: Mm-hmm. Wow,Gracias, Ernest. Este yo creo que para mucho de nosotros, más ustedes que tiene mucho más tiempo en las investigaciones, los límites o el límite es la palabra, es el concepto [00:45:00] central de cómo podemos pensar, distintamente cuando estabas hablando de esas cosas, yo pensé, casi no hay límites a los instituciones que tenemos en el mundo capitalista moderna, solo los límites que los instituciones ponen en uno mismo. Pero luego tenemos que invertir lo que está pasando en el sentido de poner límites en las instituciones y luego poner en pausa las límites que son impuestos a nuestras lógicas, nuestras capacidades o maneras de pensar el mundo, de entender al mundo, pero también de pensar de otros mundos.Y entonces, poner un límite en cuántas vuelos puede llegar en un lugar en un día o cuántos hoteles podemos construir, etcétera. Cuántos turistas podemos tener? Pero al final cuando yo pienso en eso, a veces pienso como los pueblos en México y Oaxaca en donde vivo que algunos son pueblos ecoturísticos y tienen economías relativamente cerradas o relativamente mucho más [00:46:00] cerradas que las ciudades y eso y que tienen la capacidad, que si se hacen, se ponen los límites y se dice vamos a aceptar toda x cantidad de gente en este año porque entendemos que Los recursos o la naturaleza alrededor va a sufrir sino. Pero también se este. Hay otras preguntas, eh, como de la influencia social, el intercambio de capital entre gente de culturas distintas que viene con expectativas.Pero entonces quizás empezamos con la la cuestión de resistencia, porque a México, como muchos otros países que dependen en gran medida de las economías turísticas, las formas de resistencia política, no todas, pero algunas sí, que se emprenden contra esas economías a menudo apuntan a los turistas como los principales beneficiarios o cupables. Parece haber una fuerte resistencia a nombrar a la población local como dependiente y defensora de estas [00:47:00] economías. Si vamos a construir una resistencia política que abarque las necesidades económicas de todas las personas dentro de un lugar, cómo podemos ir más allá de esta crítica, yo digo superficial, que tiene la capacidad de esencializar a los extranjeros y infantalizar a los locales. Ernest: Yo creo que, bueno, has dicho un montón de cosas que me sugieren en reacción. Ah, pero para empezar por el final, yo diría que muchas veces nos encontramos con formas des legitimación de las protestas diciendo bueno, todos somos turistas, como si tuviéramos que tener un comportamiento virtuoso, decir apelando una cierta coherencia individual en todos nuestros comportamientos.De hecho, lo que están haciendo con este tipo de críticas, es sencillamente negar la legitimidad de las reivindicaciones, decir, señalando la contradicción como si todo fuera un problema individual [00:48:00] de comportamientos individuales. Y cuando lo que nos estamos diciendo es esto es un problema político, no de una persona en concreto, sea turista o sea población local que resiste y luego hace turismo, si el problema dejémonos ya de moralismo y de buscar ciudadanos virtuosos moralmente. Y empecemos a plantear que ambas son las estructuras políticas que pongan límites a este capital turístico. Yo creo que el grueso de la pelea es salir de esta idea de la responsabilidad individual de quedar atrapados en estas ideas de responsabilidad que tampoco sin desmerecerla, es decir es otro campo de intervención, pero el centro no puede ser la decisión individual y la coherencia individual en relación a nuestros comportamientos. Tiene que ver con dinámicas estructurales y lo que hay que cambiar son dinámicas de conjunto y para eso se falta hacer política con mayúsculas, ,implica movilización, pero para [00:49:00] cambiar estructuras. Cuál es el problema que a veces en esta maraña de capitales, que haces más difícil de identificar quién es el responsable de estas políticas o de estas violencias? Si quienes al final del último, que toma decisiones detrás de estos fondos de inversión. En cambio, el turista lo tenemos cerca y puede ser efectivamente blanco del malestar, porque es el que tienes más cerca. Entonces, y yo creo que desde los medios de comunicación, se nos intenta situar en ese terreno, a cuando se pone en circulación la idea de turismofobia, que empieza sobre todo en Barcelona y que luego circula a nivel internacional.Es una campaña dirigida a quitar la legitimación al movimiento vecinal que está protestando. No hay turismofobia. Puede haber alguien que de un día te caiga mal a alguien, pero no es un problema contra una persona. Lo que pasa es que a veces al que tienes cerca, el que te molesta es el turista, [00:50:00] es la parte final de ese proceso y es mucho más difícil señalar a las autoridades públicas, locales, nacionales, internacionales que han diseñado esos marcos de representación, a las empresas escondidas en esas dinámicas financieras.Entonces yo creo que es un proceso contradictorio, pero que, al mismo tiempo, no debemos renunciar a él. Es decir, aquí la cuestión no tiene que ver con como eres más o menos coherente, más o menos responsable, siendo población local, receptora o siendo turista o siendo muchas cosas a la vez. No tiene tanto que ver con eso, sino como reorganizamos el sistema de organizar el sistema turístico.Esta es la clave. Aquí está el problema. Y esto implica ponerle límites. Y como bien decías en tu primera parte, la intervención, si yo creo que la palabra límites adquirido, una connotación política fundamental. Las últimas manifestaciones que se están organizando [00:51:00] en España, en la que tuvimos hace dos, dos fines de semana en Barcelona, o la que va a ver este domingo en Palma, especialmente pongámosle límites al turismo.Pero esta demanda de ponerle límites y al mismo tiempo que le ponemos límites, tenemos que saber que hay una parte de la población que en España es de un 30 porciento, pero que la Union Europea gira en torno también otro 30% con niveles también muy desiguales, pero que cuando lo miramos desde América Latina, es mucho más, más de la mitad de la población que no puede hacer vacaciones. Es decir que estamos en esa discusión pero por otra parte, tenemos una parte de la población que no tiene infraestructuras que le permiten hacer vacaciones, sea desde que legalmente, no le permiten tener esas vacaciones en buenas condiciones, que no hay infraestructuras para que puedan pagárselas, que faltan programas públicos de calidad de turismo social que le [00:52:00] permitan disponer de esas infraestructuras.Entonces, yo creo que la dinámica es doble, es por uno de que ponerle límites al capital. Y hay que hacerlo como parte de una reflexión y de una intervención política no individual en términos morales, pero que al mismo tiempo, hay que plantear un horizonte de deseo. Queremos algo, queremos disfrutar del tiempo libre.Queremos disfrutar de un tiempo libre de calidad. Una de las formas posibles, no la única puede ser el turismo, que implicar este ocio más desplazamiento. Y para hacer esto y poder gozar de conocer otros espacios, otros lugares fuera de mi realidad cotidiana. Para hacer esto, necesitamos infraestructuras sociales que nos permiten hacerlo.Y yo creo que ahí está la batalla, por un lado, ponerle límites al capital y por otro lado, expandirnos. Ofreciendo un mundo deseable. Queremos disponer de tiempo libre. [00:53:00] Queremos desarrollarnos en nuestro tiempo libre. Queremos que nuestro tiempo libre lo podamos organizar en la proximidad en nuestra casa, en nuestros alrededores, pero puntualmente también viajando.Y eso significa disponer de infraestructuras públicas y también de mecanismos porque el dinero y el mercado va a ser la única forma de decidir quien vuela y quien no vuela. Si tenemos que ir un mundo con muchos menos vuelos, serán los que puedan pagarlos o podemos organizarlo de otro modo. Cuántas veces puedes volar al año? Cuántas veces puedes hacer por cuánto tiempo? Como podemos, si le imp, implica un un ejercicio que a veces, cuando lo planteas, parece que esta gente no vive en el mundo, que la realidad es otra efectivamente. Ocurre esto, pero para avanzar en esta dirección, necesitamos horizontes de esperanza, horizontes que nos digan debemos ir para allá, no solamente como pérdida de privilegios, no [00:54:00] solamente por restringirnos porque el planeta se desmonta, sino porque queremos vivir mejor y queremos vivir mejor todos.Entonces, yo creo que esta conjunción, porque si no tenemos otro problema que tiene que ver con el crecimiento de la extrema derecha en un mundo de inseguridades en un mundo de amenazas, quién está ofreciendo seguridades, aunque sea con discursos racistas xenófobos de culpar al penúltimo, culpando al último. Es decir en este contexto, cómo podemos organizar dinámicas que a la vez que le ponemos límites a este desarrollo turístico capitalista, estemos ofreciendo seguridades, seguridades en términos de el control implica también mejores de condiciones de trabajo. Y el control sobre esto es también para poder organizar el turismo de otra manera que tú no pierdas tu trabajo, sino que podamos organizarlo de otra manera y que podamos satisfacer las necesidades [00:55:00] que tiene mucha más gente.Yo creo que la cosa va por ahí entre la resistencia y la propuesta de un mundo deseable también en el turismo. Chris: Ya ya igual subió mi mente como esa noción de el ocio, el tiempo de ocio son momentos también fuera de trabajo que en un análisis puede decir que el trabajo es un tipo de esclavitud moderna, a veces no, pero a veces sí, muchas veces creo y que tiempo de ocio o descanso es un tiempo también para organizarse.Organizar la comunidad. Organizar por otros mundos o contra lo que tienes, eh? Pero el turismo parece que también ha sido como un herramienta contra eso. O sea, ya tienes tu tiempo descanso. Pero mira, mira, mira las playas de Cuba... Ernest: No es exclusivo del turismo. Es decir, cuando hablamos de turismo, estamos hablando de ocio, más desplazamiento. [00:56:00] Si no nos desplazamos, resulta que este ocio que hacemos desde nuestra casa es el mas emancipatorio del mundo. Es decir, estar en casa viendo Netflix es lo mejor, estar yendo al centro comercial a pasear porque hubiese en un mundo de inseguridades de mierda.Es decir, en este contexto, esto no es algo exclusivo del turismo. También desde el ocio, tenemos estas dinámicas de alineación y de mercantilizacion. Entonces, necesitamos salir de las palabras para construir escenarios que nos permitan satisfacer necesidades y expandir posibilidades, capacidades de la gente de explorar y vivir mejor.Pero hay muchos ejemplos que te permiten de manera diversa y es parte de lo que decíamos al principio de la conversación de en lo que estamos trabajando en Alba Sud de intentarse sistematizar un montón de estas experiencias que han [00:57:00] probado aspectos distintos de transformación, de salir de estas lógicas y avanzar en otras direcciones.Y quiero que el problema es que muchas veces la academia no ha puesto atención en estas posibilidades. Y en cambio, en la vida, en la vida cotidiana, hay muchas más cosas que se están haciendo que no hace falta que nos pongamos a inventar que también, pero empecemos también por reconocer y recuperar muchas de las cosas que están en nuestra propia historia y también en nuestro alrededor, en en estos otros contextos que podemos encontrar experiencias ricas en estas otras formas y las encontraremos en el ocio y las encontraremos en el turismo. Pero a veces tengo la sensación de que cuando solamente identificábamos el turismo como un proceso de mercantilizacion, nos estamos pegando un tiro al pie. El turismo, igual que muchas otras cosas, puede ser eso y efectivamente es una dinámica de reproducción del capital que [00:58:00] genera violencia, violencia estructural y directa. Nos tenemos que resignar a que solamente pueda ser eso. Podríamos imaginar cómo construimos eso de otra manera y para imaginar, empecemos por reconocer lo que está en otro alrededor que ya está funcionando de otras maneras y que a lo mejor algunas de estas experiencias son frágiles, son limitadas, tienen contradicciones, fracasan, pero muestran que durante un tiempo ha sido posible organizar esto.La próxima fracasaremos mejor. Y a la siguiente, lo haremos perfecto. Es decir, es un proceso constante de tensión, de organización, de intento de generar cambios que nos permitan construir una vida digna, que también pasa por recuperar ese tiempo libre que lo podremos organizar de maneras distintas. Y ahí podríamos o no incluir el turismo en función de nuestras necesidades y posibilidades.Chris: Gracias, Ernest. Gracias por ofrecer eso y [00:59:00] clarificar. Entonces, si podemos imaginar otros mundos, otras formas de caminar y caminar juntos, podemos comenzar a dar pasos hacia esos caminos. Si pudieras imaginar un otro mundo de esa manera, libre de las limitaciones contemporáneas de las fronteras estatales, la hospitalidad industrial y las expectativas extractivas cómo sería para ti, Ernest?Ese viaje que tanto deseas hacer sería una peregrinación? Sería posible solo una vez en tu vida? Cómo sería ese viaje para ti? Ernest: Claro, yo diferenciaría y pensaría en que necesariamente sea plural. Es decir, que las opciones sean múltiples. No hay una respuesta, no hay una forma de organizar otro turismo. Hay o deben haber muchas formas. En función de las muchas necesidades que tenga la gente. El otro día, en una entrevista, a preguntar cómo hacías vacaciones tú cuando eras adolescente? Como pensando en [01:00:00] cómo encontrar ese anexo en lo que ahora me preocupa y yo digo, lo que hacía era pasarme en los veranos en la biblioteca. Y lo que deseaba era tener infraestructuras públicas de calidad en la que pudieras leer sin ruido, constantemente. Y quería infraestructuras públicas que me permitieran hacer eso. Y creo que una forma de organizar tu tiempo libre tiene que ver con que dispongamos de infraestructuras públicas que nos permitan organizarlo.Y ahí, no hay una sola forma, ni una sola necesidad. La mía tiene que ver con esto o ha tenido que ver con esto en un determinado momento de mi vida y para otros es otra y para otros es una distinta. Entonces yo me imagino no un camino, sino me imagino unos muchos caminos que pueden responder a formas y necesidades distintas.Si me imagino programas robustos potentes de calidad de turismo social en el que [01:01:00] la gente pueda acceder al mar, puede acceder a la montaña, puede acceder a espacios que en la cercanía y tomando en cuenta a los límites del planeta, podamos movilizarnos masivamente para dormir fuera de nuestra casa, viendo las experiencias, pero que no solamente en infraestructuras o espacios natural, sino que también implique un programa pedagógico pensado para cómo desarrollar potencialidades, como ver esas distintas apuestas.Pero veo esto y también veo con deseo, las apropiaciones que hace a la gente los parques públicos, como la gente se toma al parque y celebra fiestas y organiza actividades. Creo que necesitamos pensar en términos plurales. Es decir no hay unas vacaciones. A lo mejor en la vida, necesitaremos tener disponer de la posibilidad de organizar nuestros tiempos de trabajo de manera distinta, que nos permitan viajar más tiempo que en lugar de hacer lo que no tendría [01:02:00] sentido es pensar que podemos universalizar viajes de Alemania al Caribe por cuatro días.Eso no tiene ningún sentido, pero estamos seguros de que ya no podremos conocer otros territorios. A lo mejor será menos veces en la vida. Será por más tiempo. Será combinando trabajo con espacios de ocio con espacios. Es decir, creo que lo que debemos abrirnos es a la pluralidad de posibilidades de organizar esta parte de nuestro tiempo libre que hemos asociado con el desplazamiento.De alguna manera, yo creo que lo que necesitamos son horizontes por los que merezca la pena, no solamente resistir, sino movilizarse para avanzar hacia ellos. Queremos vivir mejor y tenemos derecho a vivir mejor. Tenemos que resistir todas las mierdas y todas las cabronadas que nos hace el capital. Pero al mismo tiempo, tenemos que poder aspirar a una [01:03:00] vida organizada bajo otras lógicas. Ahí es donde creo que que está la clave algo por lo que merezca la pena luchar.Chris: Gracias, Ernest por esas palabras muy importantes y tus reflexiones en el día dehoy, desde mí, mi parte y mi corazón y la parte de los oyentes también. Entonces, por último, Ernest, cómo podrían nuestros oyentes saber más sobre tu trabajo y Alba Sud y donde se pueden comprar el Malestar en la Turistificacion? Ernest: Al bas sud?Tenemos nuestra página web AlbaSud.Org. Ahí, todas nuestras publicaciones son de descarga gratuita. Tenemos una sección de formación en la que vamos recuperando todos los videos de los debates actividades que organizamos. Si la página web, la herramienta. Disponemos de un boletín que mandamos mensualmente.Estamos en redes [01:04:00] sociales varias, en Facebook, en Twitter, en Linkedin, disponemos de un canal en Telegram. Por ahí se pueden informar de lo que hacemos, de las actividades de las convocatorias y con Icaria que tenemos varios libros publicados, dependiendo del lugar en España, es posible en cualquier librería.Si no lo tienen, pedirlo y lo llevan. Y en muchos otros lugares, creo que hay que pedirlo directamente por la editorial. Es decir, en algunos países de América Latina, Icaria tiene distribución comercial normal. En otros es más difícil, pero en la página web de Icaria Editorial se pueden conseguir estos trabajos. Y si no lo encuentran, que nos escriban que algo resolveremos.Chris: Muy bien, pues voy a asegurar que todos esos enlaces están ya en el sitio de Fin de Turismo cuando lanza el episodio y una vez más Ernest, desee que tendríamos más tiempo para [01:05:00] platicar, pero seguramente en otra ocasión. Fue un gran honor, oportunidad de hablar contigo y espero que podemos hacerlo de nuevo en algún momento. Ernest: Con mucho gusto. Encantado de poder conversar contigo. Y estoy realmente seguro de que vamos a continuar caminando juntos. Muchas gracias. English Transcription Chris: [00:00:00] Welcome Ernest, to the end of tourism podcast.Ernest: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here.Chris: It's a great honor to finally be able to talk to you. I wonder if, to start with, you could tell us about this, where you speak today and what the world is like there for you?Ernest: I usually live in Barcelona, between Barcelona and Mallorca, because I am between the University of the Balearic Islands and Alba Sud, and at the moment I am in Buenos Aires working on research into different management experiences, outside the logic of capitalism. And this led us to identify different experiences. And now I am starting a research with the Hotel Bauen, what was the now closed Hotel Bauen and the cooperative that managed it for 20 years,It is part of the process that we are doing, identifying [00:01:00] diverse plural experiences that have to do with how to think about the possibility of organizing tourism under other modes and this has taken us along different paths from Latin America, from Spain. And now I am here.Chris: Well, thank you Ernest. And yes, we are going to talk about this topic, but beyond the visions that exist, that we can imagine about post - capitalist tourism or something around it, something like that. But before we get into that, you and I have been in contact for the last two years, partly due to your work in the field of critical tourism studies and your Alba Sud project, in which some of our previous guests, including Ivan Murray, Robert Fletcher and Macia Blasquez, have participated.I would love for you to tell me a little bit [00:02:00] about Alba Sud, Ernest, its mission, its history and its current situation.Ernest: With pleasure. Oh, look, Alba Sud was founded in 2008. We had legalized it before in case some group of colleagues needed it one day, but it formally began to operate in 2008 and it began to operate in Managua, Nicaragua, which was where I lived at the time.And it was basically an agreement between people who were dedicated to research and communication to work with critical and at the same time propositional analysis around tourism. This was something that was original from the beginning, this double concern, about how to think about the impacts, the effects that tourism development had under capitalism and what kind of dynamics of structural and direct violence they generated and at the same time, how to think about possibilities of getting out of that [00:03:00] framework of those logics. And that was a hallmark that we started with from the beginning.Over the years, Alba Sud has grown, becoming a network of tourism researchers. We now have a presence in 10 countries in Spain, France, Europe, and then in Latin America, in the Dominican Republic, Mexico, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina.So it is a network made up of people who are dedicated to different areas of tourism analysis and who share work spaces and analysis and political intervention. For us, Alba Sud is a research centre, but it is not an academic centre and we are less concerned about academic dynamics, although there is a part of our team of people who collaborate who are at the university, different universities.What we are concerned about is how to generate [00:04:00] knowledge that is useful for communities, for community organizations, for civil associations, for unions, and for public administration when possible. That is, we try to generate knowledge, analysis, systematization, proposals that in some way contribute to making visible the things that do not work well, that are a disaster that generate pain in this world in relation to tourism and at the same time, to think of horizons of hope.This is the purpose. To do this, we have a large team of people who collaborate more closely on a day-to-day basis, others who collaborate occasionally, and we basically put together our work, which is organized around a website, www.AlbaSud.Org, and we structure it into research papers that are later published in a format [00:05:00] written in different ways, which I will then tell you about. In addition to the form of research, work is linked to training to generate dialogue processes that allow us to listen, to reflect together, putting people who come from the academy on the same level as people who have specific work experiences. And finally, a more political influence area, more of accompanying organizations and accompanying them to influence politically.In the field of research, we then express it, basically through short articles that we write, we publish around 100, 110, 120 a year, which are short articles of 2000-2500 words, which we know are widely used in universities, as discussion material.And a bit of the purpose is this, that they are boiled down as small, well-written articles, or we try to make them well [00:06:00] written, that they are in simple language, that the complexity has nothing to do with the academic swear words that we use, but the depth of t

The world full of amazing sounds, club relaxation and musical peace, sensual dance and sunny chill out Deep stories, uptempo nu disco and organic house in the best Sunday edition Sexy Sunday Every Sunday on PURE IBIZA RADIO at 11:00, perfect for an afterparty, joyful wake up, Neevald presents a 60-minute set made of the most delicate and soothing sounds. Sexy Sunday proves that music connects people, triggers sound sensibility and makes people fall in love with its good tones. For the past 700 weeks it has also been the best pretext for spending fun time with friends at the beach, at home or at work everywhere. For the past 14 years Ibiza has played, listened and appreciated Sexy Sunday Neevalds sets bring you closer to Balearic Islands, the sea, beach and soothing Ibiza breeze. The delicate and dance sounds of the sets have defined the value of the mixes on the club market, the Sexy Sunday brand found its place in clubbing, and among its fans now stands for a specific type of dance music. lots of love lots of wonderful sounds

The world full of amazing sounds, club relaxation and musical peace, sensual dance and sunny chill out Deep stories, uptempo nu disco and organic house in the best Sunday edition Sexy Sunday Every Sunday on PURE IBIZA RADIO at 11:00, perfect for an afterparty, joyful wake up, Neevald presents a 60-minute set made of the most delicate and soothing sounds. Sexy Sunday proves that music connects people, triggers sound sensibility and makes people fall in love with its good tones. For the past 700 weeks it has also been the best pretext for spending fun time with friends at the beach, at home or at work everywhere. For the past 14 years Ibiza has played, listened and appreciated Sexy Sunday Neevalds sets bring you closer to Balearic Islands, the sea, beach and soothing Ibiza breeze. The delicate and dance sounds of the sets have defined the value of the mixes on the club market, the Sexy Sunday brand found its place in clubbing, and among its fans now stands for a specific type of dance music. lots of love lots of wonderful sounds

The world full of amazing sounds, club relaxation and musical peace, sensual dance and sunny chill out Deep stories, uptempo nu disco and organic house in the best Sunday edition Sexy Sunday Every Sunday on PURE IBIZA RADIO at 11:00, perfect for an afterparty, joyful wake up, Neevald presents a 60-minute set made of the most delicate and soothing sounds. Sexy Sunday proves that music connects people, triggers sound sensibility and makes people fall in love with its good tones. For the past 700 weeks it has also been the best pretext for spending fun time with friends at the beach, at home or at work everywhere. For the past 14 years Ibiza has played, listened and appreciated Sexy Sunday Neevalds sets bring you closer to Balearic Islands, the sea, beach and soothing Ibiza breeze. The delicate and dance sounds of the sets have defined the value of the mixes on the club market, the Sexy Sunday brand found its place in clubbing, and among its fans now stands for a specific type of dance music. lots of love lots of wonderful sounds

Welcome to the final day of this voyage, Catholic Pilgrims. I feel like this trip was quick. We've been all over the place with Mother Cabrini. We started in Genoa, sailed through the Mediterranean, steamed by the Balearic Islands, Gibraltar, Morocco, the Azores, and now we will read about Mother and her Sisters docking at Hoboken.  I went to look Hoboken up. It's in New Jersey, which I didn't know. It's a terminal that has been used since colonial times. Today, more than 50,000 people come through that terminal daily, which is incredible. There's lots of things there now, it's not just a dock. Since this is the end of a voyage, I will give my short reflection. Let's go ahead and open our books to page 105. Hoboken Docks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoboken_Terminal

Hello, Catholic Pilgrims. Oh boy, Mother Cabrini gave me the travel bug today. As she's cruising through the Mediterranean Sea, she describes going by the Balearic Islands, the main one being Majorca. She talks about Liguria, Italy which is an area known for its beauty.  I went and looked all these places up and now I need to travel there. I'll link to a few places in the show notes and you'll see. Maybe you've been there. If you have, write and let me know about it.  Enough about me and my travel obsession. Today is the anniversary of Mother Cabrini's profession of her vows. I tried to look up online to confirm the date, but I couldn't find anything. No matter, it's a beautiful day for her at sea.  Let's hear all about it by turning to page 85.  Majorca: https://www.seemallorca.com Liguria, Italy: https://www.italia.it/en/liguria

Tourists are being told not to visit Mallorca this year – as locals say they are being overwhelmed by foreign visitors.A letter, signed by signed by seven protest groups in the Balearic Islands, reads:"Mallorca is not the paradise they are selling you. The local population is angry, and we are no longer hospitable because the land we love is being destroyed, and many residents are having to emigrate." It has caused a lot of concern among many Irish people who have booked to visit the island this summer… So, what can be done?Guest host Anna Daly is joined by Graham Keeley, Spain Correspondent for The Independent, Eoghan Corry, Editor travelextra.ie and listeners to discuss.Image: Reuters

Everyone knows about Ibiza but Ibiza is the smallest of the Balearic Islands. Today, we share our adventures of the two lesser known islands: Mallorca and Menorca.Mallorca is popular with Brits and Germans but still widely unknown to Americans and Menorca is a true, untouched hidden gem. We spend a week on these islands and discuss the natural beauty, things to do, and of course, the usual shenanigans that seem to follow us wherever we travel.Locations in this episode:Palma (Mallorca)Bonaire (Mallorca)Soller (Mallorca)Mahon (Menorca)Cala En Porter (Menorca)Ciutadella (Menorca)Activties:Palma Cathedral + Terraces (Mallorca)Barca Samba (party cruise in Mallorca)Coasteering in Bonaire (Mallorca)Arquinesia Perfumes (Mallorca)Soller Trolley (Mallorca)Cova D'en Xoroi (Menorca)Xoriguer Gin Factory (Menorca)More info about the activities we booked on the Busy Gallivanting website Field Notes Travel Blog and Itineraries offerings!WHERE TO FIND MORE:Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@busygallivantingpodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Youtube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BusyGallivantingPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: busygallivantingpodcast@gmail.comWebsite: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠busygallivantingpodcast.com⁠

Hear about travel to Menorca, Spain, as the Amateur Traveler talks to Kristin Henning from travelpast50.com about her visit to the northernmost of the Balearic Islands. Why should you visit Menorca? Kristin says, "In a nutshell, it is so appealing because the entire island of Menorca is a UNESCO Biosphere Reserve. It is just stunning, nature wall to wall. It's just a small, relaxed island. It's one-fifth the size of Mallorca, with only one-tenth the population. So it's very easy to relax and enjoy the outdoors and all that this very historic small island has to offer." Kristin recommends several activities and experiences for a visit to Menorca, Spain, emphasizing its natural beauty, historical significance, and relaxed atmosphere. Here's a summary of her recommendations: 1. Explore the Camí de Cavalls Hiking Trail A historic circular trail around Menorca, divided into 20 segments. Ideal for hiking or biking, with options for day trips or multi-day treks. Hotels can assist with luggage transport and pickups/drop-offs. Wear sturdy boots and consider trekking poles for the rocky terrain. ... https://amateurtraveler.com/travel-to-menorca-spain/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Olive trees are sprouting all across the Balearic Islands—a chain off the Mediterranean coast of Spain. The largest island, Mallorca, has more than 800,000 cultivated trees. They yield a good portion of the world's supply of extra virgin olive oil.More trees—of both wild and cultivated varieties—have been showing up on the surrounding islands. They've been planted not by farmers, but by sea gulls. The gulls eat olives—especially those from Mallorca—then fly miles over the Mediterranean to their home islands. Once there, they spit up the olive pits, which can sprout and grow trees.Biologists recently studied yellow-legged gulls, which are common across the Balearic Islands. The scientists brought some of the birds into the lab, and attached GPS trackers to others. They also examined the populations of olive trees in the islands.The researchers found that the birds ate both wild and cultivated olives. But they preferred the ones raised on farms. On average, they flew about three miles farther to get them—about eight miles per trip, although some gulls flew more than 60 miles.The gulls upchucked most of the olive pits on the rocky outcrops where they nest. But many of the pits were dropped where they could produce trees. On one island, an area that had been mostly grass and shrubs was being transformed into an olive grove, with both wild and domestic varieties—thanks to the wings and appetites of yellow-legged gulls.

Traveling to the sunny shores of the Balearic Islands as we taste and review Rosa Blanca Majorca 1927 Lager by Damm. In the Hop Topic, Barber chats about Deya's latest award winning ways.Be sure to follow Rosa Blanca

Learn money saving travel trips here - MK120 - How to backpack Europe - https://youtu.be/pFtwBOMdczYA travel guide on transportation, lodging, and food in Menorca, Spain. One of three major Balearic Islands located in the Mediterranean Sea, Menorca is a beautiful destination with a rich history. Previous episodes - MK127 - Kauai, Hawaii - https://youtu.be/g5gzC8nLfTMMK126 - Berlin, Germany - https://youtu.be/DKSpGvSsN8YMK125 - Split, Croatia - https://youtu.be/z3Okr-kjCtoMK124 - Cinque Terre, Italy - https://youtu.be/L_y1Znpx-UIMK123 - Finale Ligure, Italy - https://youtu.be/W_vvRjbbNykMK122 - Monaco - https://youtu.be/JxhjHNlfnZ4MK121 - Nice, France - https://youtu.be/bVTU_XMjZ-gMK120 - How to backpack Europe - https://youtu.be/pFtwBOMdczYMK86 - Venice - https://youtu.be/sPGUJ7VHMCEMK85 - Vienna - https://youtu.be/DK6G7RB9g_kMK84 - Dubrovnik - https://youtu.be/FD_xIqmV4w4MK45 - Dublin - https://youtu.be/DYDSk7pBbNUMK44 - Marseille - https://youtu.be/TQrESbBJ7QYMK43 - Palma de Mallorca - https://youtu.be/YtOHgY67XoIMK42 - Amsterdam - https://youtu.be/CJxlYIoon00Opening song “Menorca" written and performed by Joana Pons. All production by Cody Maxwell. Artwork by Cody Maxwell. Opening graphic assets by BoxOfMotion. Maps by Google Earth. sharkfyn.com maxwellskitchenpodcast.com#menorca #spaintravel #spain #balearicislands #euro #sharkfyn #maxwellskitchenpodcast

The monthly episode of the best house and garage in the mix, and hosted. Mixed live from the capital of Wales, U.K and the world famous party hub of the Balearic Islands. Tracklist "ILLICIT - All My Tears Away (DEMO V1) Leftwing _Kody & Liam Craig - Tell Me Shermanology x Boyz | Men - Motown Philly (Extended) Shermanology x Boyz Il Men - Motown Philly (Extended) Damelo - How We Do It (Original Mix) Hamdi & Princess Superstar - Counting (Sammy Virji Remix) Martin Ikin Ft. Byron Stingily - Devoted (Extended Mix) Shystie - Pull It (Fabian Dubz Mix) TLC - Creep (Fabian Dubz Bootleg) Gabrielle Vs Angie Stone - Wish I didn't miss you Y U QT - Homeless Dub Dokku - Renegade Master Dub Right before my eyes - SKT Dub Remix Wookie- Battle 2.0 Neeko & BWK project - Love V.3 Jordan O'Regan - Get with you Sonny Fodera ft. amber Jolen - Hold It down Lighthouse Family - Loving every minute- Subaholics remix"

Thousands of people marched in Spain's Balearic Islands against mass tourism ahead of the summer season. Holding posters reading ‘SOS Residents, Enough Mass Tourism', protesters marched through Palma de Mallorca, the capital of the largest Balearic Island, with a smaller protest also held in Menorca. Similar demonstrations have also recently taken place in the Canary Islands. Would it put you off travelling there? Andrea hears from listeners, business owners in the area and Eoghan Corry, Editor of Air and Travel Magazine.Image: Reuters

The Eurovision final is nearly here. Latika Bourke, Sîan Pattenden and Georgina Godwin discuss the latest news from Malmö as well as Sîan's eleventh consecutive charity live draw. Monocle's resident Eurovision expert, Fernando Augusto Pacheco, speaks to the show's production designer, Florian Wieder, and the lighting and screen-content designer, Fredrik Stormby, from the competition's main stage. Plus: David Lammy in the US and the tourist crackdown in the Balearic Islands.

Content warning for discussion of genocide Episode music can be found here: https://uppbeat.io/track/paulo-kalazzi/heros-time Day 4 will take a deep dive into the Punic Wars and the Sacking of Carthage. The Fall of Carthage is widely considered to be the first recorded genocide in history and we will be looking at the hows the why and the whos of it all. Episode Notes below: Hey, Hi, Hello, this is the History Wizard and welcome back for Day 4 of Have a Day w/ The History Wizard. Thank you to everyone who tuned in for Day 3 last week, and especially thank you to everyone who rated and/or reviewed the podcast. I hope you all learned something last week and I hope the same for this week. This week we're going to be going all the way back to the purported origins of my field of study. This week we're going to be discussing History's first genocide… probably. Remember that genocide require intent to destroy a specific group of people, and the destruction of Carthage during the Third Punic war is the first time in history that was can demonstrate that intent, at least so far. As always we are not going to be diving right into the event itself. All history exists within specific cultural, national, and ethnic contexts. Genocide moreso than any other type of event. No nation just wakes up one day and suddenly decides to go on a mass murder spree. So what caused Rome and Carthage, two states that had been allies and friends for hundreds of years to suddenly fight three wars against each other and ultimately, in the case of Rome, wipe Carthage off the map? Following the Pyrrhic War and throughout the middle of the 3rd century BCE Rome and Carthage because the two preeminent powers of the Mediterranean. During this time Carthage would come to dominate southern Spain, much of the coastal regions of North Africa, the Balearic Islands, Corsica, Sardinia, and the western half of Sicily, in a military and commercial empire. Whereas Rome had subjugated almost the entirety of the Italian peninsula and finally driven the last Greek colonies off of the mainland. In 265 BCE a group of Italian mercenaries called the Mamertines appealed to both Carthage and Rome for aid after they had seized the city of Messana on the island of Sicily (modern day Messina) from the Kingdom of Syracuse. Carthage immediately entered the war, but on the side of Hiero II the King of Syracuse. The Romans, as Romans are wont to do, debated for a while about this. They didn't really want to go to war to support people who had stolen a city from its rightful owner, and as Carthage had already entered on Syracuse's side, entering the war at the Mamertine's request could lead to a war with Carthage. However,  Appius Claudius Caudex filled his fellow senator heads, as well as the heads of the general assembly, with thoughts of booty and plunder. Many of the senators were already arguing that there was a strategic and monetary advantage to gaining a foothold on Sicily. The First Punic War officially began when the first Roman sandal made landfall in 264 BCE. By the way, in case you're wondering why it's called the Punic war, and not the Carthaginian War, Punicus was a term the Romans used to refer to the people of Carthage, hearkening back to their Phonecian origins. When the Romans landed Messana was under siege by the combined forces of the Carthaginians and the armies of Syracuse. Sources are unclear as to why, but first the Syracusans and then the Carthiginians withdrew from the siege. Rome's armies, under the command of Caudex marched south and put Syracuse under siege, but having only brought two legions with them they did not have the forces or supplies for a protracted siege.  Immediately this war was looking to be a bad idea for Rome, as Carthage had nearly overwhelming naval superiority at the beginning of the war. Indeed it is somewhat shocking, at face value, that Rome was able to win the First Punic War as the majority of the 23 year long war was fought on, or very near the water. To try and counter the Carthiginians naval prowess the Romans introduces a device called a corvus to their ships. The corvus was a 4 foot wide and 36 foot long bridge that was attached to the front mast of a Roman quinquereme. It has a large, hooked spike attached to the underside of the front of the bridge and was used to attach Roman ships to Carthiginian ones and allow for swift boarding of enemy vessels. While the corvus did have some measure of success it made Roman ships very front heavy, made them far less maneuverable, and in heavy seas were practically useless. Now, Sicily was a nightmare for an attacking force. Its hilly and remarkably rugged terrain made moving large bodies of troops very difficult. The ground of Sicily heavily favored the defender. In fact, in 23 years of fighting on the island, only two full scale pitched battles were fought.The Battle of Agrigentum in 262, which was a Roman victory, and the Battle of Panormus, which was also a Roman victory. Agrigentum was a particularly interesting case. Both Roman consuls at the time  Quintus Mamilius Vitulus and Lucius Postumius Megellus were in the field with 40,000 Roman soldiers.  A large army has an even larger stomach though, and the consuls had two major problems. First, because of Carthage's naval superiority it was exceedingly difficult to keep their forces supplied by sea. And to compound those issues, neither consul had experience moving around armies of this size. So after seizing Agrirentum, right around harvest season. The consuls dispersed their men to the fields in order to harvest as much food as the possible could. And, of course, that was the moment that Hannibal Grisco (a different Hannibal than the one famous for marching elephants over the Alps) attacked the Roman forces. Rome's forces would rally after this initial assault and rout the Carthiginian forces before besieging and capturing the city, selling 25,000 people into slavery. The war was less direct after Agrigentum for a few years. Rome made failed attempts in Corsica, Sardinia, and Northern Africa. For several years the war followed a pretty simple pattern. Rome was superior on land. Carthage was superior at sea, and sieges sucked for everyone. In 265 BCE Rome gained two new consuls Marcus Atilius Regulus and Lucius Manlius Vulso Longus. Both men, frustrated by the stalemate that was raging on Sicily decided to take the fight to Africa itself. After a series of relatively quick sieges of Aspis and Adys Rome had taken the city of Tunis, this put them only 10 miles away from Carthage itself. Carthage tried to sue for peace, but the terms that Regulus offered were so harsh that Carthage decided to fight on. Rome would actually suffer one of its largest defeats at Tunis, though it wouldn't come from a Carthiginian general. Rome lost to a Spartan mercenary commander Xanthippus. In 255 BC Xanthippus led an army of 12,000 infantry, 4,000 cavalry and 100 elephants against the Romans and defeated them at the Battle of Tunis. Rome would lose much of its fleet and tens of thousands of allied soldiers in various storms around the Mediterranean. There was even a time, following the Battle of Phintias, that it looked like things were finally turning around for Carthage. However, by 248 Carthage only had control over two cities on the island, Lilybaeum and Drepana and both nations' coffers were nearly emptied. Carthage tried to get a 2000 talent (approximately 52,000 kilograms of silver)  loan from Ptolemaic Egypt, but was denied. Rome turned to its wealthiest private citizens. Asking them each to build a single quinquereme and promising repayments from the reparations they would make Carthage pay after the war. It should also bear mentioning that Rome lost about 17% of its fighting age men over the course of this war.  The consuls who finished off the war were Gaius Lutatius Catulus and Quintus Valerius Falto (Rome elected new consuls yearly). These two consuls defeated the last of Carthages fleet in the Battle of Aegates Island. After this battle was finished Rome continued to put pressure on Lilybaeum and Drepana until Carthage decided to sue for peace. The Treaty of Lutatius was signed and brought the First Punic War to its end: Carthage evacuated Sicily, handed over all prisoners taken during the war, and paid an indemnity of 3,200 talents over ten years. This wouldn't end Carthages' woes though. In 237 BC Carthage prepared an expedition to recover the island of Sardinia, which had been lost to the rebels (mostly foreign soldiers they were unable to pay fully after the war) In a fit of cruelty, the Romans stated they considered this an act of war. Their peace terms were the ceding of Sardinia and Corsica and the payment of an additional 1,200-talent indemnity. Weakened by 30 years of war, Carthage agreed rather than enter into a conflict with Rome again; the additional payment and the renunciation of Sardinia and Corsica were added to the treaty as a codicil. The tensions caused by THIS particular bit of tomfuckery would be one of the major determining factors in the start of the Second Punic War. The mark that the First Punic War made on history cannot be understated. It was not only the longest Rman war to date, but it was the most devastating maritime war of the ancient world. Over the course of it Rome built over 1000 ships and would use the skills they learned and honed in this war to rule the seas, virtually uncontested for the next 600 years. Following the First Punic War Carthage turned its eyes to the North. They knew they would need to expand their power base and accrue a much greater store of wealth if they were ever going to stand on equal footing with Rome again. The Italian Peninsula and the surrounding island were off limits, so they turned to Iberia. They would meet Rome again in Iberia, but in 226 the two powers signed the Treaty of Ebro, fixing the River Ebro as the border between the two empires. It's likely that Rome had no intention of maintaining the terms of this treaty as some few years after they established an alliance with the city of Saguntum, a city which existed within the Carthiginian sphere of influence. Hannibal (yes, that one, with the Elephants) saw this as an act of aggression from Rome and besieged the city of Saguntum, eventually seizing it after 8 months of siege. Rome sent Quintus Fabius Maximus to the Carthage senate with peremptory demands. When these were rejected, as Rome knew they would be, war was declared in the spring of 218 BC. The Second Punic War would last for 17 years and would, again, end in victory for Rome. The war got off to somewhat of an odd start. Both Rome and Carthage planned to invade the other, but neither side seemed to really know what the others were doing or where they would be. It's likely, given the way the previous war had gone, that Rome expected a naval attack from Carthage, and so they remained in the south putting together their plan to invade Africa again. Hannibal though had a different plan. He intended to swing up through Iberia, starting in modern Cartagena, cross the Alps, which he did in 15 days, and sweep down on Rome from the North. He successfully crossed the Alps with 20,000 infantry, 6,000 cavalry, and an unknown number of elephants (he'd left Iberia with 37 of them, but it's unclear how many survived the crossing.) Hannibal then proceeded to dog walk the Roman army around Italy for the next two years. The only challenge he really faced was from Quintus Fabius Maximus, nicknamed Cuncator (the Delayer) by his contemporaries for his adoption of the Fabian Strategy. Well, his creation really. The strategy is named after him. The Fabian strategy employs hit and run tactics and seeks to avoid pitched battle. Fabian hoped to use this harrying tactic to enter into a battle of attrition, hoping that Hannibal would run out of supplies and be forced to leave or surrender. In 216 Rome elected two new consuls Gaius Terentius Varro, who advocated pursuing a more aggressive war strategy, and Lucius Aemilius Paullus, who advocated a strategy somewhere between Fabius's and that suggested by Varro. The Senate also authorized the raising of a double sized army, some 86,000 men. The largest Roman army in history at that point. Varro and Paullus lost most of their army in Rome's greatest military disaster, the Battle of Cannae. Some 67,500 Roman troops died in this one battle. This was almost the end for Rome. They almost lost the whole war in that one Battle. Hannibal was supported by Gaulish and Spanish mercenaries, he was up against military incompetents, and he was about to be joined by the King of Macedonia as an ally. In 215 Phillip V launched the First Macedonian War. It was time for Rome to bring back the one man who had stood a chance against Hannibal. It was time to bring back Fabius. Fabius became consul again in 215 BC and was re-elected in 214 BC. Rome, now more desperate than they'd been in a long time also drastically reduced its standards for soldiers. Enrolling slaves, criminals and those who did not meet the usual property qualification. By early 215 BC they were fielding at least 12 legions; by 214 BC 18; and by 213 BC 22. By 212 BC the full complement of the legions deployed would have been in excess of 100,000 men, plus, as always, a similar number of allied troops. The majority were deployed in southern Italy in field armies of approximately 20,000 men each. This was insufficient to challenge Hannibal's army in open battle, but sufficient to force him to concentrate his forces and to hamper his movements. For 11 years after the Battle of Cannae, the war was raged across Southern Italy in a constant give and take as Carthage captured Roman cities, only for them to be recaptured. The fighting in Italy was fierce and seemed to be going mostly in Hannibal's favor, but Italy was not the only theatre of this war. The Iberian Theatre could best be described a a holding action for the first several years. As Rome sought to hold Carthiginian forces in Iberia and prevent them from reinforcing Hannibal by crossing the alps again (although Hannibal's brother Hasdrupal was able to cross the Alps with 35,000 additional troops).  Scipio Africanus was ultimately successful in Iberia, clearing it of Carthiginian control. He almost lost control of the region when the Iberian leaders sought to fight against the Romans who they had just fought with against the armies of Carthage. They'd expected Rome to leave after defeating Carthage here, but Rome wouldn't give up land it held and sent Claudius Nero over to stabilize the situation. This left Iberia under Roman control and Italy fighting for its life against Hannibal and Hasdrubal. In a move of some desperation and no little boldness Rome decided to finally launch its invasion of Africa in 204 BCE led by the famed Scipio Africanus, and after defeating Carthage in two major battles, Carthage elected to sue for peace and recall Hannibal and his brothers from Italy.  Rome and Carthage entered into peace negotiations. The Roman Senate ratified a draft treaty, but because of mistrust and a surge in confidence when Hannibal arrived from Italy, Carthage decided to take one last stab at achieving victory. Thus did the Battle of Zarna begin. Hannibal tried to use a charge of 80 elephants to break Rome's lines, but Rome was able to turn the charge back and the elephants wound up devastating their own forces. The new peace treaty dictated by Rome stripped Carthage of all of its overseas territories and some of its African ones. An indemnity of 10,000 talents of silver was to be paid over 50 years and hostages were taken. Carthage was forbidden to possess war elephants and its fleet was restricted to ten warships. It was prohibited from waging war outside Africa and in Africa only with Rome's permission. And so there would be peace for 50 years. Sort of, but not really. Carthage finished paying off their indemnity in 151, 50 years after the end of the Second Punic War and was, once again, economically prosperous. They were, really, no military threat to Rome anymore, but many Roman senators refused to believe that. Most famous of which was the senator Marcus Porcius Cato, also known as Cato the Censor. Cato had been part of an assembly sent to Carthage in around 153 BCE and notes how wealthy and prosperous it seemed. He was famous for ending all of his speeches before the senate with the phrase Ceterum (autem) censeo Carthaginem esse delendam ("Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed"), which is often shortened to merely Carthago delenda est (Carthage must fall). In 149 BCE Rome sent its armies to Carthage, under the pretext of a punitive expedition because Carthage was allegedly engaging in illicit military operations. The Third Punic War, which lasted for a mere three years, really only had the one major engagement. That being the Siege of Carthage, which would eventually be led by Scipio Aemilianus, the adoptive grandson of Scipio Africanus. Initially Carthage tried to surrender and, indeed, surrendered all of their weapons. But Rome would not be swayed by this. They wanted Carthage destroyed, and ultimately it would be. The early years of the siege saw little success. Carthage was a hard city to besiege, and it still had some allies in the region. So in addition to contending with the city itself, Roman forces needed to be on guard for allied towns and cities who would try to come to Carthage's aid. After 3 years though it would end in a single week of some of the most horrific slaughter of the ancient world. In Spring of 146 Scipio launched a full scale adult on the harbor area and successfully breached the walls of Carthage. Over six days, the Romans systematically worked their way through the residential part of the city, killing everyone they encountered and setting the buildings behind them on fire. The city was razed to the ground, over 700,000 people were killed, including women and children, and some 50,000 survivors were sold into slavery. The next part of the story that you might know, if you know this story at all, is that Scipio then proceeded to salt the earth around Carthage so that nothing would ever grow there again. This story is almost certainly apocryphal. Which is fancy historian speak for “full of shit”. There are no ancient sources for this event. The salting story entered the academic literature in Bertrand Hallward's article in the first edition of the Cambridge Ancient History (1930), and was widely accepted as factual. What IS factual though is that Rome committed genocide in sacking Carthage. There was a clear and deliberate plan to destroy every single vestige of the people of Carthage, either through mass slaughter or slavery. There was clear intent to destroy planned and carried out by the duly elected leader of Rome and its armies. It literally doesn't get any more clear than this. Intent was vocally demonstrated by Cato and physically carried out by Scipio. That's it for this week my friend. Thank you for coming with me on this educational foray into the past. We've got some more reviews to read for this week, so let's jump right into them. *Read Reviews* Have a Day! w/ The History Wizard is brought to you by me, The History Wizard. PLease remember to rate, review, and subscribe to Have a Day! On your pod catcher of choice. The more you do, the more people will be able to listen and learn along with you. Thank you for sticking around until the end and, as always, Have a Day.

I've talked a lot about drought and water management on this podcast. It's becoming a bigger and bigger part of my work and specialization, both in the work I do with private clients and through the network of farmers that I work with through Climate Farmers. At the moment, these topics are hitting home for another reason. Catalunya, the region where I live in Northeastern Spain is currently experiencing the most severe drought in its recorded history, and there is little relief in sight.  Now obviously I'm not from this area of the world myself and though I've built a competent understanding of my local context and the water management history of this region, I'm always looking to better understand the scope and options of what is happening in this time of climate emergency. Another big focus of mine lately has been to reach out and make connections to others in the area who are working on nature based and regenerative solutions to the challenges we face in hopes of supporting existing efforts and making myself useful to the people and organizations who've been working in this space for a long time. One source of unification around these efforts in my area and consistent messages of inspiration and hope come from the small company La Casa Integral, and today I had the pleasure of speaking to Aline, one of the co-founders of the company. Aline Van Moerbeke is Flemish Belgian by birth but feels most Mallorquina after spending over 20 years in San Roqueta on the island of Mallorca. She now lives with her partner Juan Pedro in the Maresme region just up the coast from Barcelona in Catalunya where they run their business La Casa Integral, a permaculture and ecological design company focused on the needs of the communities of the Balearic Islands and Northeastern Spain. Aline is also the co founder of Permacultura Mediterranea and is highly active in many networks and initiatives in the region.    In this episode, Aline and I begin by talking about the unique journey that she took to begin a career in permaculture education and regenerative design. From there we go into the unique context behind the current drought and how Catalunya is wrestling with this challenge. Since she has made an incredible effort to participate in and lead many discussions at various levels of government, industry, and communities, she gives me an overview of the ideas and solutions that are being proposed and the entrenched ways of thinking that are holding progress back. Through her work at La Casa Integral she and Juan Pedro have advanced many unique water saving and recycling solutions and we explore some of them and even take a closer look at natural blackwater filtration systems that they are known for designing and installing for many different use cases.  We also talk about reasons for hope in the policy and institutional structures at our local level and explore the first steps that anyone listening can take to gain a better understanding of their own opportunities to participate in the restoration of their own water systems, at any scale. This interview is a first step towards two things that I am trying to do more of in this season. The first is to highlight the incredible work that is being done by so many local people in my area, partly to build closer relationships with them myself, partly to demonstrate that most of the really effective people in this space are not the big name famous people from your documentaries and social media threads, and partly to show what it could look like for some of you listeners to explore your own local scene of regenerative workers and advocates instead of always looking outside your communities for solutions. Many of the topics that I'm passionate about and like to focus on might not be relevant or interesting to you, but the idea of connecting with and exploring the hyper local community of like-minded people doing good work around you is more important than a couple highly effective but isolated actors. Another theme I'll be promoting this season is that of inspiring examples of collaboration. People who break the mold of protectionist business practices, ivory tower academics, and competitive paradigms of commerce. Aline and La Casa Integral are a perfect example in my area of folks who are leading through collaboration and by including the voices and expertise of as many people as they can. Their creation and participation in countless committees, online groups, advocacy organizations, and volunteer initiatives show a true commitment to the larger vision of realizing change in our region, and I know this chat will inspire you as it did for me, even if the challenges in your region have more to do with too much water rather than too little.

Today we're headed to the Balearic Islands off the coast of Spain, and zeroing in on Mallorca. This magical island boasts quaint mountain towns, stunning beaches, and is quintessentially Mediterranean. Think olive oil from hundred year old trees, oranges blossoming all over the island, and of course wine and local specialties.  My guests today are Elena Florez, our partner in the region, and Rene Zimmer, the Managing Director of Cortesin Hotels and the brand new hot spot on the island, Grand Hotel Son Net.  We discuss everything from local cuisine, to architecture, to the modern melting pot that is Mallorca.  Learn more at www.luxtravelinsider.com   Connect with me on Social: Instagram LinkedIn  

Bottoms up! It's a party, ancient-Ibiza style! Thanks to Dracula's Guest, the Gals swing on over to the Balearic Islands to find more than they ever wanted about the ancient world's most feared sharp shooters. Sources for today's episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sling_(weapon) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balearic_Islands https://short-history.com/balearic-slingers-993b52917f44 https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/5A*.html#16 https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/how-far-can-a-bullet-fired-from-a-handgun-travel https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/fastest-baseball-pitch-(male)/ *** Jenn, and SFX Kim as they spike and spill all the divine tea!  If you'd like to support our podcast, head over to PATREON where we'll be uploading ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, and SO MUCH MORE! Subscribe thyself to our social media scrolls! Instagram: @drunkmythologygals Facebook: @drunkmythologygals Twitter: @drunkmythgals TikTok: @drunkmythologygals Website: drunkmythologygals.com Email: gals@drunkmythologygals.com

On this episode of The End of Tourism Podcast, my guest is Macià Blázquez-Salom, a professor at the University of the Balearic Islands, who specializes in the Geography of Tourism, Territorial Planning, Sustainability and Degrowth. He utilizes his teaching and research activity in the environmental movement (and vice versa), and through his activism in the Grupo Balear de Ornitología y Defensa de la Naturaleza (GOB) and Alba Sud.Show NotesMacia's Journey in the BalearicsThe Beginning of Mass Tourism through Currency DevaluationContradictions in MallorcaCocoon Tourism in SpainYou Want to Work in the Balearics, You Have to Sleep in a TentBoosterism and Green BoosterismDegrowth Definitions and ContradictionsImagining Other Modes of TravelImagining Other Modes of ResistanceHomeworkGoogle Scholar: Macia BlasquezOrcid: Connecting Researchers with ResearchersMacia Blasquez's UIB SiteTranscript[00:00:00] Chris: Welcome Macia, to the podcast. From what I've been able to dig up around your life and work that you've been studying, tourism and its contradictions for a very long time. Now, I'd like to ask you what drove you towards a career as a professor and critic of the tourism industry?[00:00:24] Macia: Well, in fact, even before finishing my degree, I was involved in social movements here in the Balearics, in Mallorca, particularly. I was member of the committee of the volunteers collaborating with the GOB, which is the biggest ecologist group. Then by the eighties and perhaps influenced by this collaboration, I decided to study geography and to analyze the relation in between tourism and natural conservation, because by then we had promotion after the tourism boom in the sixties and seventies.The eighties Spain became member of the European Union and some of our politicians, they decided and they were promoting the Balearics as second residents destination for north European people, and this means that investment in the real estate market even increased with foreign people buying second residencies and promoting as well the promotion of more urban development for this purpose.And that was written in the natural areas due to what we call "green" or "gray-grabbing" with new facilitation of land here in the Balearics. And this was the main aim I had to develop my research on this topic, with special planning and natural conservation in the Balearics.Afterwards we had what we called the real estate bubble that began in the nineties and burst in 2008. And that was a period when I was more involved, particularly in the social movements. In fact I feel more related with activism than with academia. After the crisis with my age, I took the decision of giving support to younger people in the social movements and devote more time to the academia with colleagues Ivan Murray or Ernest Canada or Robert Fletcher or Nora Muller, other people who are working in this research group in the University of the Balearics Islands. But I still working with the NGOs Alba Sud, particularly the GOB, and other social movements in this region in the Western Mediterranean region particularly. [00:03:03] Chris: I have some questions regarding these social movements that I think maybe we'll get to in just a bit.But, I'd like to try to offer a bit of context for our listeners in part because before I heard of your name and before I interviewed our mutual friend Ivan, for the first episode of the podcast, I don't think I had ever heard of Palma or Mallorca before, even as someone who had traveled through Europe and many other parts of the Mediterranean.And so I'm curious if you could give us a bit of background on how Palma came to be over touristed, or at the very least, what you've seen come to pass in your time there. I mean, I know it's, it is also historically has a lot of deep importance for the Spanish state and Mediterranean history culture.[00:03:55] Macia: I'm sure you have heard about the dictatorship of Franco in the forties, fifties. Mm-hmm. Fifties. He was given support to the Luther in the second World War. And after the defeat, the technical support he had was coming from Opus Dei, was introducing tourism and real estate business as a way to have foreign direct investment.And as a result, Spain had a very important development of, of real estate business in this new areas particularly related with sun and sea tourist resorts. Perhaps you have heard about Costa Del Sol, Benidorm in Costa Blanca, or Costa Brava in Catalonia. And the same for the Balearic Islands. During that period, in the case of of M we had a huge amount of new hotels being double developed.And they were financed partly by people coming from North Europe, particularly from Germany. There was a novel accumulation of capital in that, in those regions that have had industrial development and investors realized that tourism could be a good business, introducing this way of consuming savings, consuming income for working class people in the UK, in Germany, and this is how in the Balearics we had the development of what we call the tourist boom in the sixties with hundreds of hotel being built up every month really in Mallorca, in Ibiza. Perhaps you have heard about Ibiza, right? [00:05:52] Chris: And this is just to be clear, this is in the first decade of international mass tourism post-war, correct?[00:06:01] Macia: In the Sixties, because the two first decades after the war, our regime, the dictatorship of Franco was defeated. I mean, they were given support to Hitler and Mussolini and Spain was set aside. And the model they were following was self-sufficiency. We became members of the UN United Nations by the end of the Fifties when Franco decided to take this option of promoting foreign investment, making the change of currency with the foreign currencies possible.And it was through devaluation of the peseta, this means that investing from the UK, Germany, or even the United States, or for tourists coming to Spain, visiting our country, was so cheap due to this devaluation of the currency. And this way we had that mass tourism development and mass foreign investment, foreign investment and flows of people coming here for holidays and enterprises developing their activities for profit.This was the beginning and the result were that after all those years, we now have eight hundred thousand tourist beds in the B alearics and we had 16.5 million tourists last year in the Balearics, 2022. And this is a huge amount of tourists for an archipelago that just has. 5,000 square kilometers, 1.1 million inhabitants.Most of our tourists are coming from the UK. Let's say 25%. Germany, another 25%. This means 8 million tourists coming from Germany. Then we have 13% coming from mainland to Spain. And then we have people from Scandinavia, Norway, Sweden Denmark, the Netherlands. They come here looking for sun warm weather conditions during the summertime, particularly during the high season.This is July, August, September. This is when we are having more over crowded beaches, traffic jams in the roads and the touristification of every single place in our islands. Because by the beginning, tourists were going particularly to the tourist resorts. But nowadays the countryside, natural areas, villages and, and even the historical center of the cities is being touristified.You can find boutiques, you can find terraces of bars and restaurants, all of them changing very quickly, the landscape and the way of life of our places. [00:09:17] Chris: At what point in your life did you arrive in the Balearics, in Mallorca, or are you from there?[00:09:23] Macia: I'm from the Balearics. The mother of my father Fr was from Palma. And the parents of my mother were from M and I was grown here. It's quite common in places like Balearics to have roots, to have grown people is not moving that much. Right. I attended my degree and I finished my PhD thesis, and now I have my job here and this is common. We're not moving that much. [00:09:54] Chris: Well, it's a bit of a blessing to hear that there are people in the world still who live in the same place they were born, which is more and more rare. I guess I'm curious, you know, over the course of your life then, in Palma, is there one thing that you might be able to single out as perhaps the most startling or biggest or devastating change that you've seen there?[00:10:19] Macia: Yeah. Well in fact it has to do with my political position during that moment because we had a right wing go government from 2003 to 2007 with Lots of cases of corruption related with mega pr This means projects with a budget higher to 1000 million euros. They were projects to promote highways, to promote big infrastructure, transport infrastructure, a new harbors, enlarging the airport equipment.Instead of refurbishing the hospital, they decided to build a new hospital. And this is nice, but at the same time, they were meeting and we have collected information about those meetings to arrange, Communicating in between big entrepreneurs and politicians. Where and how was that development going to be?And they were changing this information to give advantage to the investors in a way which is nowadays considered as corruption. Many of those politicians are even nowadays in jail because of those cases. And during that period I was involved as a representative, as a volunteer giving support to the campaigns for the right to the island, demanding the politicians and the public institutions and the entrepreneurs not to follow with that promotion which was jeopardizing our land promoting socio-spatial segregation destroying natural habitats. That was the peak of the real estate bubble. Just before 2008 when I was involved. We were preparing something which is called a popular initiative to the parliament.I was myself defending the initiative in the regional parliament which was in fact making a proposal not to allow more enlargement of the transport infrastructure, enlargement of the urban for instance, protection of natural areas. And that moment was particularly stressing, even violent with lots of discussions and pressures with people lobbying.But now I feel I did something nice. We have some successes, therefore it was worth doing that. [00:12:58] Chris: Beautiful. And I'm, I'm curious as well, I guess on a general scale on the island, how has civil society begun to respond? And I mean, we're talking about 60, 70 years now, so, you know, of, of tourism development there.How has civil society, how has the government, the NGOs responded to this over tourism, and what, if any, contradictions do you see in those responses? You've already spoken a little bit about the corruption. [00:13:33] Macia: Yeah, you're right. This is a very good question because I was a young guy perhaps having looked to the situation from an naive point of view.And now that I see it after some time, I understand some contradictions. Perhaps the biggest contradictions that I see now is that, Fighting to promote natural artist protections, for instance, or fighting for a better environment. They took profit of our campaigns to find new ways to earn money, to take profit from the situation. This is to say that nowadays we see how what was the biggest threat, the gray grabbing, is now becoming another model to exploit the land and the people, which is what we call "green grabbing."Capital and entrepreneurs and investors are taking profit of the land that was protected, setting aside urban development to promote a new image of the Balearics as a good refuge for capital investment and for the elites, and this is not that nice. After the time you realized that you were instrumentalized to promote the business of those that are nowadays refurbishing the hotels, a lot of investment is being devoted to the built environment.Because the real estate business is even more profitable nowadays. And as it is becoming scarred because we have stopped the urban growth these houses and these buildings, whatever they will be, perhaps hotels, are becoming more and more expensive and people is being fired. The people is not any long being able to live in the villages because they are becoming too expensive or in the Catholic shelter of the city and people is not being able to follow living in the Balearics and they have to go to live mainland.And this is a contradiction of the natural environment and the quality of life. It's becoming more exclusive. [00:15:59] Chris: Yeah, this was something that our mutual colleague, Ivan, had mentioned to me at some point. He was referring to the way that after the lockdowns, during the pandemic, once the government travel restrictions were dropped, that there was this pattern emerging or seeming to emerge around the stratification of tourism towards elite either travel or investment.So we could call maybe the elitification of tourism and tourism investment. And I imagine that's kind of what you're speaking to now. Is that correct? [00:16:41] Macia: Yeah. they were talking about cocoon tourism. People looking for a secure place to spend their holidays.At the same time, it has to be accessible. At the same time, it has to be sustainable. Now they are talking about circular economy, and the Balearics are leading this labeling, this branding, you know? Mm-hmm. It, it's like we, we are the best in the world to innovate in these terms.We were defending the natural areas. Afterwards, there was a limit of the number of tourists beds. We have eco-tax cuts for the accommodation, which is then invested in mitigating the problems that tourism is provoking. Now we have this circular economy system applied to the hotels that are having public support to invest in energy efficiency.And the result is that we have an elitization, we have elites grabbing built environment, grabbing land. And this promotes socio-spatial segregation in the islands. I imagine that it's the same that has happened in Bahamas or in Hawaii. It's like refugee for capitals and elites looking for security, looking for profitability, away from migration from the south because not that much migration is arriving to the Balearics.The mainland spain is closer to Africa or the Canary Islands. They are much more closer to Senegal, for instance, but not that much amount of boats coming from Africa with migrants looking for better living conditions are coming to the We have many, many marinas with huge yachts, very expensive.And this is another icon, you know, another example of the gentrification of the islands is a tourist gentrification. Second residences, good airport connections. The airport is growing and growing, that they are promoting more enlargement of the airport capacity, highways, rent al car and the local population is being set aside even more if you are not local, if you want to come to the Balearics to work during the high season, perhaps you have to sleep in a balcony or in a tent or in a car.Because it's so difficult to find dwelling, to find, to find accommodation if you are working. Wow. Yeah. Prices are increasing so quickly. Hmm. [00:19:38] Chris: On that note and in the context of these eco taxes and the island becoming a destination for this certain type of elitism I'm also curious about this term that Ivan introduced me to, that precedes a question that he actually wrote in for me to ask you. And the term that he mentioned, which I had never heard of before, is green boosterism or boosterism in general. Perhaps first you might be able to explain what Boosterism is for our listeners.And then secondly Ivan was mentioning this in the context of Spain receiving public funds from the EU in order to redevelop the tourism sector. And so the second question, then what do you think the trajectory of tourism is in Spain with this extra money?[00:20:36] Macia: The original government that allowed different ways to have new incomes coming from the tourist activity. One of them was tourist which is paid by those tourists using legal accommodation in hotels or in short term rental.And they have another way to have this. Income in the regional government, which is if you want to open a new hotel or to create a new short term rental in your house, there you have to pay to have the license. 3,500 Euros per bed is now what it is. With this money, regional government has income, which is not controlled by the central government.Perhaps you have to imagine that Spain is a federal nation, and it has a state, and our state, which is the Balearics is having control over this amount of money which is being collected through this status. In addition to this, as you said, European Union is giving support to the recovery of the Spanish economy with a budget, which is known as next generation.Is the way in which the European Union is promoting boosterism to recover the activity, the intensity I mentioned you before. In 2019, we had 16 and a half million tourists coming to the Balearics, and the result of this boostering after the COVID pandemics was successful as far as we had again, 16 million and a half tourists come to the Balearics in 2022.Therefore, they succeeded in boosting, recovering tourism as the most important activity in the Balearics. Half of our economy is based on tourism, 54% of our GDP. And this is as Ivan told you, something that our authorities are promoting. This is a way in which our politicians have decided to govern, to steer our economy, our society, going back to over tourism, going back to promoting the real estate business related with tourism as many tourists as possible.Promotion in the places where tourists are coming from, particularly Germany, the uk, Scandinavia, or nowadays in the States because we have a new direct fl from Palma to New York since half a year ago. Therefore, boosterism is in this way understood promoting growth. And green boosterism is, related with dressing it with sustainability, with circularity, with security, accessibility and natural areas protection.Greening that is increasing prices for people in Europe. Perhaps Magaluf is well known because it's a tourism destination for spring breakers, as you will say in the states. And nowadays, investment in hotels, refurbishing hotels is multiplying the price of the accommodation per 10. If you paid 40 euros before per night, now you have to pay 400.And this is a mass tourism destination that was popular among hooligans coming from England and nowadays is being gentrified. Through this process of elitifcation. [00:24:36] Chris: It's something that I wonder about from time to time, the increasing costs of travel and tourism being ways of certainly propping up the tourist economy or tourist economies, and then the real costs of tourism and how much of a discrepancy or a difference there is between those two things, right?Because so many of these tourist bureaus and governments and hotels and businesses are claiming that they are now, or at least moving towards charging people this kind of true cost, but certainly the true cost of these things goes well beyond our ability to pay for them in money, in cash, right?There are certain things someone, I think it was Deborah McLaren, someone who's been dealing with these issues for as long as you some, some 20 or 30 years. She said on that episode that there are things that you can sell that you can never buy back.So I'm always wondering about, it's like, okay, well we have these eco taxes and you know, surely, a lot of them just go into the pockets of the rich or the government. But even if they are being spent in good ways is that really a way of being able to measure the consequences and the cost of tourism?And so I wanted to take this opportunity to move a little bit towards the social movements that you've also been a part of there on the island. And to start with this notion of de-growth that seems to usually be set up in opposition to sustainability.Sustainability at the end of the day is really only trying to sustain the industry. You can say that, oh yeah, we're sustaining people and the planet, but insofar as the industry succeeds and then so de-growth a term that in my part of the world. And I think among most tourists is, is kind of a stranger.I think most people have still yet to really understand the depths of this term outside of perhaps over touristed places. But essentially, this manner of considering sustainability as keeping things where they are now, not reducing, not really changing anything, just giving the industry a more long-term success route.I know there's a lot of definitions and opinions on this, so I'll turn it over to you momentarily. But this willingness to shrink the tourist economy, whether it be just a little bit or whether it be to an incredible degree. But there's a lot of different opinions on this.And so de-growth becomes, in the last few years, in the last 10 years, something that really becomes a necessary possibility in the context of over tourism. I consistently come across reports and definitions that kind of vary in extreme degrees from what you've written as being neo Malthusian ideas, all the way to kind of post capitalist goals.And so I'm curious, why do you think there is all of this confusion in regards to the definitions of de-growth, and how much of it do you think is, again, just another form of greenwashing a way of saying, okay, so actually we're gonna change things dramatically on a systemic level, but we're only gonna do so insofar as it serves the industry.[00:28:16] Macia: Well, as you say it's so easy and it's so common greening the industry, the tourism industry, and giving support to those who have the power. And to those who get the benefits in economic terms. You can easily apply many different concepts, sustainability, circularity, or even degrowth.I will say degrowth in terms of having less people traveling, but with higher income. And you can say, okay, this is degrowth. This is fake because it's not considering the roots of the problem. It is perhaps solving environmental problems. This is greening, but i t is increasing inequality.Therefore, how can we make a definition of degrowth in a more appropriate way. There is another author in Barcelona, which is Giorgos Kallis. He's from Greece. He has been working in Barcelona for a long time. He has made a very good definition of degrowth. And he's establishing three particular characteristics of degrowing or degrowth political project.First of all, looking for decreasing the amount of energy and materials per capital. They call it "throughput." Is the amount of materials and energy that you use for your everyday life, or in this case for your tourist activity. This means that if you are traveling with a private jet or you are spending 10 times more water gardening, this is the kind of tourist behavior that has to degrow.This means contraction of the amount of energy and materials, but towards convergence because you cannot ask those not spending big amounts of energy and materials to contract. Those who are more guilty are the richest, you know, those who are spending more. This is the first characteristic.The second characteristic of this, degrowth political project, is that it has to promote redistribution and equity. You cannot consider a solution for tourist destination degrowing in the number of tourists if working class, middle class is being set aside, is being displaced, dispossessed.Therefore, this is the second characteristics. And the third one it is that the political project has to be planned and has to be democratic. People has to agree. Therefore, what is more important perhaps is awareness, the public debate, as you are doing with your podcast.Chris, congratulations. I like it a lot and changing opinions and talking about it and promoting thinking in the long term, not today, for tomorrow, but Jorge Riechmann in Spain is talking about precaution principle, because if you just think about your everyday life and don't consider future generations and people in the south and animals, plants, beings in the world.Therefore, the result is that we are behaving in an unsustainable way. And instead of degrowth, what we are going to have is recession without warning, directly to the collapse. [00:32:08] Chris: Yeah. Or end without end. de-growth, while it's something that you can look up and you can find in academic journals and articles and books, that it also shows up in the social movements. I think most famously among the Association of Neighborhoods for Tourism de-Growth in Barcelona. Barcelona, yeah. Right. And so we interviewed Daniel Pardo, one of the representatives of that group early on in the first season.And just so our listeners know, Spain is by far one of the most overt touristed countries in the world. And so we see, generally, in places like this, in overt Touristed places, a huge amount of backlash, protest, and as well alternatives against or in the face of the tourist industry.And so I'm curious Maia, about what kinds of social movements have risen up in Palma and what shape or form they take and what place you've played in them. [00:33:13] Macia: We like defining that movement in terms of right to the city or right to the land, or right to the island because it's, it is the movement of residents who are defending our rights. Going to the beach or just having access to housing is becoming so difficult. And in Palma there is a movement called Ciutat Por La Vida, the City for Those Who Are Living There. Like in Barcelona, they have trade union of people renting housing because they have organized an association to defend the rights.These are social struggles and we are also including the less favored people. I mean particularly people coming from Latin America or coming from Africa who are suffering the worst working conditions. And you can compare how those moving migrating, because they are looking for better living conditions are considering are considered by the system as those who have not right to do it.And at the same time, the system in this case capitalism is promoting tourists which consists of people who is also moving and perhaps they are even looking for a place to live as well because they are looking for the sun or looking for the culture or the hospitality of Latin community in Catalonia or in And this is not just environmental, it's not just being possible to be solved through greening. It has a social meaning. And it has to do with the system. It has to do with the salaries. It has to do with the model that is being applied to solve the problems. And the model the capitalist system is growth.The model in places such as Spain is more real estate development, more tourists coming. And we are seeing with phenomena such as the climate change or the rising prices of energy and the problems with migration, inequalities, growing inequality, the solution have to be perhaps out of the system looking for post capitalist solutions.And in this terms, degrowth and degrowing tourism.[00:35:52] Chris: Yeah. Sometimes I'll be talking to people here in Oaxaca or in other places regarding tourism and over tourism and what I think the end of tourism is or looks like, right? And certainly towards a certain degree of de-growth. And then I would, you know, also add for me personally abolition. Maybe I don't get that far. Maybe I do. And then someone often says " yeah, but what would we do without tourism," in a kind of angry, knee-jerk response? Right? And the question is always asked as if it's rhetorical, as if the question doesn't actually need to be posed, and if the answer doesn't actually need to be wondered about, right?What would we do without tourism? And I mean mm-hmm. You know, I have to ask the person why that isn't the real question, why you aren't asking yourself, really, what would you and your family and your community dream into the world without having this kind of dependency on this economy that is essentially, extremely precarious and exponentially damaging and destructive.So, in places like the Centro Historical of Oaxaca. And I'm sure in places like Paloma, 50%, over 50% of the economy is tourism. It is extremely difficult for people to imagine things otherwise. But you did mention there are groups in Mallorca that are actively engaging and fighting the tourist economy.GOB, I think one was you mentioned. Yeah. And Alba Sud, which is a little more on the academic side, I think. [00:37:44] Macia: We have designed research projects and they are looking for these bottom proposals from social movements, not that much u p-down from public institutions or entrepreneurs, and establishing as a goal different steps towards a better future. First of all, we decided to talk about a social transformation of the currently assisting tourism.This means that once you identify, for instance, low salaries in the tourism industry, or long day working conditions too much activity demanded to those, for instance, cleaning the rooms of the hotels. That is something that Ernest Canada has been analyzing in Spain in terms of "Kellys" the hotel maids. Therefore, social transformation on tourism, of tourism, of the currently assisting tourism means solving these problems.Or the same with energy consumption. The "throughput" we were mentioning before. It's like being pragmatic with the solutions is looking for short-term solutions to the problem. And then well, the same with biodiversity, for instance, or the same with climate change. But then the question is what about the future?What about he best of the scenarios you can imagine. Your utopia, right? Because I think we will agree with most of the people who is hearing your podcast that a better scenario for the future is having more leisure time. Mm. And leisure means we say cultivating yourself, reading, perhaps listening podcast or cooking for your friends, relatives, taking care of the children, the elderly people.This means some kind of wave that is improving the wellbeing of yourself and those around you. But at the same time, perhaps you are also willing to move and spend the night of out of your everyday life place. Therefore you visit relatives in another city or you spend days still walking for enjoying sports or perhaps sailing.I dunno. And this is tourism and this is improving your health, is improving your image of other places. Mm-hmm. When you were backpacker, you were traveling and that activity gave you a broader view of the world. Mm-hmm. You saw people, you met people in Mexico, for instance, and you decided to change your life and to take another position, political position, giving support to other ways of life. And the situation that the people in Oaxaca is having or had then before this. In this terms, tourism can give us opportunity to improve our life and the life of other people. We have to consider it, for instance, in the case of, imagine or teenager visiting places different to where they have grown and this is the way in which they develop alterity.Mm-hmm. They recognize what they are ,understanding what other people is. Mm-hmm. What are their living conditions and perhaps you see that they have a bathroom which is so different to the one you have at home, and therefore you appreciate the conditions you have at home. You have never thought how nice is the place where I am living the sanitary conditions?But if you visit, for instance, the case of Spain, wherever in Africa, you think, "okay, now I understand what is happening with those people who is even losing their life trying to cross the Mediterranean to come to the, to to Spain." I think that introducing this traveling is something that belongs to the culture in terms, for instance of pilgriming.People was visiting other places because it was a duty they had according to their religion. But it was also a way of becoming mature, realizing, being aware of what are the privilege you have and how valuable is your family? Once you see it from abroad, you think, okay, what you want to do is go back home because I feel unsafe.And this is a feeling that is helping you to improve, to become mature, to improve your understanding of the world. Therefore, we have to find the balance and perhaps not doing short breaks to spend a lot of energy in a weekend. But considering how much transformative is this kind of experience for teenagers, for instance. Therefore, perhaps as you said in your podcast, we are not anti-tourism.We want to find a way in which we can transform tourism in a social term and perhaps identify the way in which more leisure time can have as an small part of it, tourism as a way in which we become aware and we can help other people and we change things in the world. Mm-hmm. [00:43:53] Chris: And so on those lines, perhaps that would be some of the advice that you might have for our listeners or other people who might consider visiting Palma one day is go slow, pilgrimage. What would the end or transformation of tourism look like to you as an individual, as a resident of that place for people visiting?You know, it's, it's a little bit of a way of saying what kind of advice would you have for people who wanted to visit, but perhaps also taking into consideration what that world would look like.[00:44:33] Macia: Well, giving support to the social movements that are defending the right to the land, to the island, not interfering. And having in consideration social class struggles the environmental conflicts, dealing with pollution. Not coming to the Balearics for a short break, which means spending a lot of energy and polluting or short period of time not going into conflict with housing, using short term rentals, you have many, many important things to do. And perhaps a good way to do it is doing it from home beforehand. And promoting the networking in between people who has this awareness. This is why I think that, for instance, your podcast, another journalist activities is so important.Solving the problem of the language. I'm sorry for my English. Bridging the cultures and bridging the continents and the places that are so similar. I'm sure that in Mexico, in the Caribbean, in South America, in the United States, many places have problems which are so similar to those we are having in Spain or in the Balearics, in Mallorca or in Ibiza.Therefore networking is so nice. Mm. [00:46:11] Chris: Excellent. Thank you Maia. You were mentioning for a worthy traveler mm-hmm. Who might arrive on your shores is someone who is willing to engage and meet and know of the issues and the social movements and the activists and the activism in a particular place, and to be a guest as opposed to a tourist perhaps. And these social movements that exist in Spain, not necessarily against tourism, but in the context of tourism, most often, have a lot of time in. They usually have been around for years, if not decades, and the consequences of over tourism are now starting to reach other places much more quickly.I think Mexico is one of them. Mexico City, Oaxaca, certainly the obvious beach resorts. But in cities where people are starting to mobilize against] Airbnb gentrification pollution, as you said, among other issues. But these struggles and these movements are very young.Okay. And I'm wondering what kind of advice you might have for these grassroots movements that are just beginning. Coming from the point of view of grassroots movements that have been undertaken for years, if not decades now. [00:47:45] Macia: In my personal experience, what is more profitable perhaps is the link with the academia.Because nowadays it's so difficult to find independent, rigorous thinkers, let's say, people willing to contribute from an independent and rigorous point of view. I mean, in the case of Spain, we are lucky because most of the universities are public universities. And we still have most of the staff at university, we who are civil servants.In my case, we are working for the public administration and we are paid to think and teach and write to do this research. And this has been very profitable for the social movements in my opinion. This is my personal experience. You can also find other scientists in the society not related with the public institutions, not related with the academia.For instance, in the case of Alba Sud, we call it a post capitalist popular university because they, they don't depend on. Public funds, but they develop a very important, independent, rigorous research trying to establish these kind of foundations strong, very well based on writings of people that you have heard about them and you know, perfectly David Harvey from the City University of New York, for instance, or Jason Moore who works on Capitalism as well, or Silvia Federici, many other authors reading them and establishing the links.You have many, many good researchers, scientists in the States and in Canada and also in Mexico. Daniel nearly. For instance, in Mexico, you can use their writings and in this way develop the discourse with this strong foundations. This is what I will suggest. Perhaps it's, it's my own, you know, way the way in which I have done it.I suppose that you can find others, but if you maintain this independency and you work in a rigorous way, I always think that perhaps we won't win, but we will do what our conscience will mark, you know, as we have what we have to do. And this is a good enough for me. I dunno if we will stop the struggle with climate change and over tourism, migratory conflicts, people just dying while they are willing to cross towards the north. But we have to do all what we can, this is what can make us happy. [00:50:54] Chris: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you, Macia. It's been a pleasure.Yeah. And you know, I'd like to thank you on behalf of our listeners for joining us on the pod today, and being willing to speak in a language that is not your mother tongue for our Anglophone listeners. And before we depart today, I'd just like to ask for them on behalf of them once more.How might they find out more about you and your work? How might they read your writings and what you've put yourself to? [00:51:29] Macia: We have just finished a research project entitled Overtourism and Degrowth and you relate it with the University of the Balearic Islands?We have designed a webpage where we offer downloading papers, books. We have translated them to English, some of them, or we have published them. If not, if you cannot download them because some journals are asking you to pay, never do it because knowledge has to be free of charge, in my opinion, unless that knowledge that is being developed in the public institutions such as our university. Therefore write us message, you will find a way in which you can count at me or Ivan or Ernest, and we will send the documents in a digital way.And in this terms, I think that you can find whatever. And I am available for anyone who will want to know more about the topics we have been researching and welcome them. Welcome you as well to Mallorca whenever. Mm. [00:52:46] Chris: Beautiful. Thank you, Macia, once again. You're welcome for joining us today.[00:52:50] Macia: Thanks, salud. Get full access to ⌘ Chris Christou ⌘ at chrischristou.substack.com/subscribe

This week's Sounds From Within eases in with a trip to the Balearic Islands with the incredible new track from Radio Slave kick-starting the show - with its early 90s feel, it makes way for the next half hour blending in new tracks and old, which leads to a few Hip-Hop tracks as we still celebrate the 50th Anniversary of Hip-Hop and then straight to the club for the final hour!New and old tracks, new versions of old, weave in and out as we get ourselves hyped for a late-night affair touching on Deep House, Disco Edits, and U.S. Garage.Tune into new broadcasts of Sounds From Within, LIVE, Wednesday from 4- 6 PM EST / 9 - 11 PM GMTFor more info visit: https://thefaceradio.com/sounds-from-within///Dig this show? Please consider supporting The Face Radio: http://support.thefaceradio.com Support The Face Radio with PatreonSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/thefaceradio. Join the family at https://plus.acast.com/s/thefaceradio. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, we explore the indispensable Sighthounds. The sleek, swift, and beloved desert hunters and guardians of antiquity. The story of Sighthounds is the story of the oldest known domesticated dogs. Many of the breeds cherished today pre-date recorded history. Their loyalty, speed, and ability to spot and catch prey over long distances in the cruelest of conditions made them essential assets to pharaohs, kings, and nomads alike. Sighthounds were so revered that statues, murals, and golden relics were created in their honor. As a final testament to their merit, Sighthounds have been discovered, mummified, and laid to rest in family tombs.   Bonafide Bits: The Azawakh's unique lean, durable physique inspired a Formula 1 engineer. An ancient leather dog collar was discovered in Tutankhamun's tomb. Pharaoh Hounds are known to blush, and even smile. In addition to being the world's fastest dog, Greyhounds have a 270-degree range of vision. Canine champions of AKC's Fast CAT Invitationals have reached speeds of 35-45 mph.   Featured Breeds: Azawakh Tall and elegant, the Azawakh is a West African sighthound that originates from the countries of Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger. The Azawakh has a short, fine coat that may come in any color or color combinations: red, clear sand to fawn, brindled, parti-color (which may be predominantly white), blue, black, and brown. The head may have a black mask and there may be white markings on the legs, bib, and at the tip of the tail. There are no color or marking disqualifications in the breed. Befitting its heritage, the Azawakh excels as a companion, guardian, and lure courser in the United States. Discover more about Azawakhs at AKC's Azawakh Breed Biography.   Saluki Among the world's oldest breeds, the slim but rugged Saluki was the hunting hound of kings for thousands of years. Salukis are swift and agile sprinters who love a good chase. They make gentle, dignified, and independent but loyal pets. Discover more about Salukis at AKC's Saluki Breed Biography.   Sloughi The Sloughi (SLOO-ghee) is a classically constructed sighthound of ancient lineage, originally bred to work on such game as hare, fox, jackal, gazelle, and wild pigs on the punishing terrain of its homeland. This is a lean, no-frills hound standing between 24 to 29 inches at the shoulder. Coat colors include shades of light sand to mahogany red-fawn, with or without brindling, with or without black markings, with no invasive white markings. The Sloughi's big, dark eyes are often described as “melancholy.” Discover more about Sloughis at AKC's Sloughi Breed Biography.   Pharaoh Hound Pharaohs are sleek, aerodynamic coursing hounds bred for high-speed pursuit on rocky terrain. Among their several distinguishing traits are a tight tan coat with matching leather on the nose, ears, and eye rims; ravishing amber eyes; a white-tipped tail; the ability to smile; and a unique way of blushing when happy or excited (“His face glows like a god,” wrote an admirer some 3,000 years ago). These elegant visitors from antiquity possess the speed and graceful movement of all coursers descended from Bronze Age hounds. Discover more about Pharaoh Hounds at AKC's Pharaoh Hound Breed Biography.   Basenji The Basenji, Africa's “Barkless Dog,” is a compact, sweet-faced hunter of intelligence and poise. They are unique and beguiling pets, best for owners who can meet their exercise needs and the challenge of training this catlike canine. Basenjis are small, graceful hounds standing 16 or 17 inches at the shoulder. They are recognizable by their glistening short coat, tightly curled tail, wrinkled forehead, and expressive almond-shaped eyes that convey a variety of subtle, humanlike emotions. Basenjis are a lovely sight at a standstill but more impressive yet at a fast trot when they exhibit the long, smooth strides of a mini-racehorse. And yes, it's true, they don't bark, but they make their feelings known with an odd sound described as something between a chortle and a yodel. Basenjis are fastidious and will groom themselves like cats. This has been called a “cult breed,”¿small in numbers, but those lucky enough to own one do so with singular devotion. Discover more about Basenjis at AKC's Basenji Breed Biography.   Maltese The tiny Maltese, “Ye Ancient Dogge of Malta,” has been sitting in the lap of luxury since the Bible was a work in progress. Famous for their show-stopping, floor-length coat, Maltese are playful, charming, and adaptable toy companions. Discover more about Malteses at AKC's Maltese Breed Biography.   Ibizan Hound The Ibizan Hound is a lithe and leggy visitor from the dawn of civilization, bred as a rabbit courser on the rocky shores of Spain's Balearic Islands. World-class sprinters and leapers, Ibizans need ample space to air out their engines. Ibizans are lithe and leggy visitors from the dawn of civilization. Art history students will recognize the elongated head, with its large erect ears, as a familiar motif of ancient Egypt. The elegant, racy body stands 22.5 to 27.5 inches at the shoulder, with coat colors of solid red or white, or red and white patterns. The rosy-colored leathers of the nose, eye rims, and lips, along with amber or caramel eyes, perfectly complement the coat. The breed's quiet grace is often described as deer-like. Discover more about Ibizan Hounds at AKC's Ibizan Hound Breed Biography.   Greyhound Greyhounds are the essence of the dog breeder's credo “Form follows function.” From the narrow, aerodynamic skull to the shock-absorbing pads of the feet, Greyhounds are perfectly constructed for high-speed pursuit. The lean beauty of the Greyhound's “inverted S” shape, created by the deep chest curving gently into a tightly tucked waist, has been an object of fascination for artists, poets, and kings for as long as human beings have called themselves civilized. Greyhounds are the template from which other coursing hounds have been struck. Discover more about Greyhounds at AKC's Greyhound Breed Biography.   Irish Wolfhound The calm, dignified, and kindly Irish Wolfhound is the tallest of all AKC breeds. Once fearless big-game hunters capable of dispatching a wolf in single combat, Wolfhounds today are the most serene and agreeable of companions. Discover more about Irish Wolfhounds at AKC's Irish Wolfhound Breed Biography.   Whippet At somewhere between 18 and 22 inches at the shoulder, the Whippet looks like a Greyhound, but smaller. The Whippet exhibits the classic “inverted S” lines of the sighthound. The deep chest and trim waist; a lean head supported by a long, arched neck; and slim but sturdy legs combine in a picture of an agile, fleet-footed athlete. Between bursts of intense pursuit, Whippets love to stretch out and relax for long hours, enjoying the role of a loving, and loved, companion. Whippets like a fenced yard to run in, but they do nicely in cozy apartments too, as long as they are exercised properly. Another plus for city dwellers: Whippets rarely bark. Despite the breed's elegant looks, the Whippet is a robust, low-maintenance dog. Discover more about Whippets at AKC's Whippet Breed Biography.   Thai Ridgeback The Thai Ridgeback is a muscular, medium-sized dog with a streamlined body that makes him very agile and a natural athlete. The ridge on his back is formed by hair growing in the opposite direction from the rest of his coat and the breed has up to 8 different ridge patterns. Puppies can be born without this ridge. Coat colors include solid blue, black, red, or fawn with a black mask occasionally on the red-coated dogs. Thai Ridgebacks also have spotted tongues and some even come with solid black/blue tongues. Today, most Ridgebacks are companion dogs, but they still maintain many of the same instincts for the jobs for which they were bred: hunting and guarding. They had to be independent and self-sufficient and hunt for their own food, which gave them strong survival instincts, a high prey drive, and a high level of intelligence. If well-bred and properly socialized, the Thai Ridgeback can be a loyal, loving pet. As a guarding breed, they are naturally protective of their home and can be reserved and suspicious of strangers. Thai Ridgebacks will need a patient, consistent, and experienced owner with a good understanding of dog behavior; they are not for first-time dog owners. Discover more about Thai Ridgebacks at AKC's Thai Ridgeback Breed Biography.   Borzoi Borzoi are large, elegant sighthounds. A mature male stands at least 28 inches at the shoulder and weighs 75 to 105 pounds. Females will be smaller. Beneath the luxurious silky coat, Borzoi construction follows the ancient Greyhound template. Once known as the Russian Wolfhound, Borzoi were bred to be swift and tough enough to pursue and pin their ferocious lupine quarry. In their quiet, catlike way they can be stubborn, and training is best accomplished with patience, consistency, and good humor. Affectionate family dogs, Borzoi are nonetheless a bit too dignified to wholeheartedly enjoy a lot of roughhousing. The sight of a cat or squirrel on the run will quickly stir their instinct to pursue and fenced-in running room is a must. Discover more about Borzois at AKC's Borzoi Breed Biography.   For more information about a specific breed visit the breed's parent club or AKC.org.   Shareables: The fleet-footed whippet has been dubbed a poor man's racehorse. There's evidence that the Greeks not only developed collars but created spiked collars, to protect the necks of their hounds from a predator's bite Tesem is an ancient Egyptian catch-all term meaning hunting dog.

Why hello!! It's been a minute! I'm back from Hawai'i and back with the pod :) Today I have a few announcements for you as well as the biggest story time of my entire life lmao...MEETING JAY ALVARREZ. Ironically and as I struggle to put my own teachings into practice from time to time, the second half of the epi is then all about why you need to stop putting people and things a pedestal lol. So often we assume that we're not worthy of certain opportunities, experiences, people when that couldn't be farther from the truth. So today we're wiping away that egoic thought and reminding you of who da fook you are!! PS. I'm running a retreat all along the Balearic Islands and would love to have you there!! See the link below for more info