The Church Hoppers Podcast

The Church Hoppers break down a statement by Ken Carter, the bishop of the Florida Conference of the United Methodist Church, in which he gives 7 reasons "Why I believe The United Methodist Church will remain united."  We, frankly, found the reasons unconvincing at best, and offensive at worst. So, we decided to do YET ANOTHER podcast about the Methodists and their sex problem...but hey, why not? They've been having "holy conversations" about it for decades.  The first step, church, is admitting you have a problem.You can check out Bishop Carter's video on the Florida Conference website.

The Church Hoppers return to weigh in on the recent decision by the highest church court of the United Methodist Church that a jurisdiction of the church cannot appoint bishops in violation of the Discipline of the UMC.  Sound complicated?  It isn't...just a new headline for what has become an increasingly exasperating topic within the UMC.  We discuss why many "Progressives" in the UMC aren't, and what a real, substantive response would be for affirming clergy in any denomination, but specifically within the Methodist structure.

This week we talk theories of the atonement of Jesus.  We discuss some major models of atonement, many of them substitutionary and most of them blood atonement in some fashion.  We talk about the illustrations we use to teach these theories and how they all get conflated.  By no means do we address all theories of the atonement of Christ.  But we do ask the question again and again...did Jesus really HAVE to die?  Why?  For whom?  To what end?

HOME is our new "sermon series" where we break down what the phrase "spiritual home" or "church home" means to various people.  In the series, we will hear the experiences of a lot of people who are at home today in a very different place than what they called "home" before.  Join us and find yourself in their stories.This week, we talk with Scott. After 20 years in ministry as a Baptist pastor, Scott left the church altogether.  He explains why he could no longer be at home, not just in a Southern Baptist church, but in any local church at all.  He speaks to the church about priorities and loving neighbor, and he speaks words of encouragement to those who just can't go to church anymore.  Ultimately, home is right where it's always been--where the heart is.Check out Scott's blog entry about his leaving http://scottwelch.blogspot.com/2015/12/why-do-you-care-so-much-about-my-choices.html

We interrupt our "sermon series" on HOME to sound off on the recent meeting of the Primates of the Anglican communion.  In light of episode 047, we felt it a good supplemental episode.  We feebly try to explain for the non-anglican layperson how the polity of the Communion works, and what exactly did and didn't happen at the Primates 2016 meeting in Canterbury, England.  We discuss homophobia, unity, provincial churches, sanctions and censure, and options that we as outsiders see that were available to the Primates but rejected in favor of their move to censure the Episcopal Church U.S.A.  We end by calling to the church to what the Presiding Bishop of the ECUSA, Michael Curry, called "the high calling" of drawing the circle wide...at least as wide as the women and men and children that are already a part of us...but hopefully even wider than that.  Amen.

HOME is our new "sermon series" where we break down what the phrase "spiritual home" or "church home" means to various people.  In the series, we will hear the experiences of a lot of people who are at home today in a very different place than what they called "home" before.  Join us and find yourself in their stories.This week, we talk with Lissa.  She shares her own story of home and why the evangelical church of her youth was no longer a place she could call home.  Lissa embarks on a journey that leads her to where she is today: in an Episcopal church, transformed on social issues that weren't even the reason she left to begin with, and finding hope and life even beyond just the walls of her own church.

So on New Years Eve, Joshua and Wendy sat down to have ye old fashioned "Watch Night Service." Not clear on the details of all that?  Don't worry, neither was Wendy.  Not sure if it involves games and drinking?  Don't worry, neither was Joshua. So we sat down together and talked about all the different religious ways that Christians can ring in the New Year.  Well, some Christians.  And we begin this year the best way we know how, by podcasting as Church Hoppers...

This week, the Church Hoppers get a little preachy.  To help wind up the church year, we thought we might share some sage wisdom with churches of all stripes about how to get rid of those pesky "wow, this church stuff really sucks" critiques.  No, the sage wisdom doesn't come from us...although we are pretty sage and wise and stuff...but from a surprising source--The Bible.  I suppose it is a bit counter-intuitive.  We find three bits of advice for a church struggling with being generally sucky or a bit a-holeish.  Three points and a poem later, and you'll be on your way to improving your own church's reputation.  And, believe us, there are people who are paying attention to whether or not the church sucks.

This week we went to visit a Pagan worship service celebrating the Pagan new year, "Samhain" (sounds like "Sah-oo-in" in two syllables).  Rather than becoming apostate heretics, we find ourselves at home in the Pagan rituals, as we draw the connections between what we've always done as Christians and the rituals based on those of older cultures, especially in medieval Europe.  We are joined by Jake, who gives us the low-down on Paganism/Wicca and helps dispel some misconceptions. We talk about the history of neo-paganism, and Wicca.  We define terms like "coven" "magick" "spell" and we talk about how we have all of these things in Christianity, just under different names.  It turns out that Pagans are just like us!  Finally, we tell about our experience in the circle, what we saw and felt, and how we interpreted it from our faith perspective. For a more OFFICIAL view of Paganism or to find a meeting of Pagans/Wiccans near you, visit witchvox.com

This week we visit the second largest group to come from Joseph Smith's movement.  Formerly they were known as "The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" or RLDS, but since 2001 they have been known as "Community of Christ."  We discuss the strange and intriguing history of this "not the Utah Mormons!" sect that, today, ordains women, is ok with gay marriage in many places, and no longer believes it is the "One True Church" (TM, all rights reserved).  We talk about their temple in Independence, Missouri (in the place where Joseph Smith said it would be) that is open to the public and dedicated to peace.  We talk about how a sect with such an unusual history has a pretty normal church service and we converse about our experience in one small congregation.  Finally (about the last 15 minutes of the episode, in fact), Joshua asks some members how they feel about marrying gay people and that's when it got interesting...For a more OFFICIAL view of the Community of Christ, visit their website at cofchrist.org

This week we stop to look back at one year of church hopping.  We gather round while Wendy delivers a scary children's sermon, just in time for Halloween, and then we get closer to the campfire to tell the real horror stories of church life  (in a fun way, of course) :1.  "The Day They Passed Me Over for Communion"2.  "The Day the KKK Came to Church"3.  "The Season of Silence"4.  "The Devil Wears a Stole"Wendy reads an open letter to the Church that she wrote almost exactly a year ago today.  The message is as poignant today as it was then.  And we celebrate together the day we said goodbye to church horror stories. We celebrate the death of the way we've always done church, so that we can welcome the life that is springing up beyond the walls of the autumn and winter of church.

This week we return to worship with our Presbyterian friends; This time, a congregation of the PCUSA.  We explore their history, with a musical journey through the high points of their 20th century milestones.  We discuss some of the recent developments that led this denomination from being a fundamentalist affirming group in the early 1900s (during the moernist/fundamentalist debates) to embracing a much more broad theology, with a bent toward social justice.  We also discuss the schisms that this has produced both in the denomination and in local churches.  (We visited one such schismatic denomination that broke with the PCUSA early on, in episode 31).  Finally, we discuss the worship experience we had, the organ music, the liturgy, and why the whole church didn't say the creed this Sunday.  And we do it in exactly 1 hour and 57 seconds...very Presbyterian of us, we think.For an OFFICIAL view of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), visit their website at pcusa.org.

This minisode is a letter from an insider in one of the sects that we visited.  This letter was from a listener who is a Primitive Baptist Pastor.  First, he tells us, YES, there ARE Primitive Baptists listening!  We're always surprised to find out just who enjoys listening.  Then, he goes on to tell us all the stuff we got wrong (Joshua still can't believe he was wrong about the mourner's benches) and helps to clarify some of the issues where our discussion lacked nuance.  Finally, he tells us why he is a Primitive Baptist, why he stays, what he believes and why.  It's a true insider's look at a sect we visited, and an invitation for even us "outsiders" to listen. And really, as far as we Church Hoppers are concerned, everyone's an "insider" in the commonwealth of God.

This week we visited an old-school Primitive Baptist church.  We talk about the anti-missions Calvinist history of the Primitive Baptist sect and the reason you don't hear about them much nowadays.  We finally break down TULIP so you can understand it, sort of (and you'll either hate TULIP or hate our explanation of it...sorry Presbyterian friends).  We take you through the idiosyncrasies of Primitive Old-School worship, a capella singing, sing-song preaching, footwashing, and handshaking.  Finally, we talk about what churches of all stripes fear--death and/or irrelevance...and we discuss how the physical picture we saw in just one little church full of faithful people might be a prophetic call for the rest of us to ask if what we are doing as religious people is really mattering.  After all, the church has always needed a little fresh wind now and again.For a more OFFICIAL view of Primitive Baptists, visit one local congregation's website, complete with doctrinal and practical information at www.pb.org/

This week we visited with our neighbors at the Church of the Nazarene.  We explore their Weslyan holiness roots and talk about some of the surprising details of their church.  We worship very slowly and "worshipfully" with their praise team and take a look at a different way of doing "prayers of the people."  Finally, we listen to a 20 year veteran of ministry share a sermon on what the church ought to be.  He lets some of his own hurts and disappointments bleed through the cracks and we listen to him painfully over-correct in the sermon.  But then we explore with him the topic of the carnival of God--the kingdom of God that looks like a carnival in church on Sunday mornings.  And it's a beautiful sight.For an OFFICIAL view of the Church of the Nazarene, visit nazarene.org/

This week we traveled to a Historically Black College and University (HBCU) called Wiley College, behind the Pine Curtain of East Texas.  There we found a United Methodist affiliated institution built on the hotbed of the civil rights movement, stretching even back to its very founding.  You may have heard about part of the struggle in Marshall, Texas for civil rights from the movie "We Are Marshall."  And you probably know about the courage of Black students and leaders in the 60s at Wiley College from the movie "The Great Debaters."  We discuss this history and hop over to a student-led voluntary chapel service.  We discuss the service, the music, the styles of worship encountered, and the sermon (delivered by the United Methodist chaplain at Wiley).CORRECTION:  Despite Joshua's confident ramblings about movies (even though he rarely watches them), "We Are Marshall" has absolutely nothing to do with Marshall, Texas, a high school football team (it's a University team) or the civil rights movement, really.  Joshua regrets the complete and utter BS about "We are Marshall" that he spouted, but is considering watching the movie for the first time as penance and encourages others to see it...Joshua doesn't understand football so it's no surprise to anyone that he totally f**ked up a reference to a football movie.  Sorry!Links to some of the clips used in this episode:Wiley College Gospel Choir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GojKFBBv0bMWiley college A Capella Choir (To be young, gifted and black) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEfbBCBSnSE"The Real Great Debaters" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQDJZVO-f3g“Old Time Religion” from “A day in the life of Wiley College” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tllK2w-qtJs I Thank You Jesus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M3FvIt5qh4There is a Balm in Gilead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-NjWPFooM0

This week we are joined by Verdell, a United Church of Christ minister and doctoral candidate in communications at Howard University.  He joined us for a podcast about creating more worship spaces for LGBTQ African Americans on Episode 015.  We discuss an area he has studied and experienced, evangelical culture.  We discuss what the historical roots of evangelicalism are, define evangelical characteristics and how it isn't its country cousin, fundamentalism.  Joshua argues with Verdell contending that Billy Graham is totally a fundamentalist (he isn't, and now Joshua knows why) and we talk about the pro-life phenomenon of the 60s.  We discuss how the pro-life movement was actually just a smoke-screen for white-supremacist Christians...and continues to be a smoke screen.For more from Verdell, visit his blog at reboot4life.wordpress.com and follow him on Twitter @mr_wrightaway

This week we visited a congregation of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).  We talk about the recent history of this denomination since its beginnings in the Stone-Campbell movement.  In this episode we'll answer these questions about the CCDOC: Are the Disciples conservative or liberal?  Was Jim Jones REALLY a Disciples minister?  Will they baptize babies?  What was their position on slavery?  What does slavery have to do with human sexuality issues today?Let's just say, this ain't your grandad's Disciples of Christ podcast episode.For an OFFICIAL view of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), visit their website at Disciples.org

This week we travel deeper into Texas culture and further and further away from our comfort zones to visit a Cowboy Church.  We talk about the origins of the cowboy church movement and how they are often undercover denominational churches.  We talk about why there is a big lack of racial diversity in said churches, and why niche marketing might be beneficial and detrimental.  We talk about how all churches run the risk of narrowing the gospel to reach their particular market.  So saddle up your horse and hit the happy trail with the Church Hoppers for another adventure (which, evidently, won't be the last one of its kind).For an OFFICIAL view of Cowboy Churches, visit the website of the American Fellowship of Cowboy Churches at americanfcc.org/CORRECTION: On the podcast, Joshua gave the URL of the AFCC as AFCC.org.  This was in error and the actual website is americanfcc.org .  Our apologies to the AFCC for any confusion.

This week we packed our bags and hit the road in search of God's ONLY true church upon the Earth.  Let me tell you, it isn't where I would've put it if I were God.  But as our brethren and sisteren in the Church of God (Restored) will probably tell you, I'm definitely not God...so what would I know?  We discuss this unique sect, their holiness code that keeps them distinct from both the world AND other churches (and even other "churches of God").  We talk about some of the surprising things about this sect that you wouldn't expect from a group of people who choose to dress and believe so very conservatively.  We also discuss our long road trip that ended in a little disappointment when we finally arrived at God's one true church upon the Earth (Texas congregation).For an OFFICIAL view of The Church of God (Restoration), visit their website at churchofgod.net

This week we joined our Southern Baptist neighbors for church.  We begin the episode by saying that we couldn't visit a convention of churches founded by slaveholding motivations without talking about the terrorist attack at Emanuel AME church in Charleston South Carolina.  We discuss the uncomfortable and damning silence of white Protestant churches that refuse to confess and repent of racism in our past and present. Wendy tells us about the wine of the day and we promptly toast all of the happy couples in light of the Supreme Court ruling giving marriage equality nationwide!  We discuss the history of the Baptists in America, and how they moved from the persecuted powerless to the powerful persecutors in many cases.  We discuss slavery's indelible imprint on Southern Baptists and why they won't ever get past it...because they don't want to talk about it.  We talk about the service we attended and the desperation many feel and see across Christendom in the United States as we look around and see the decline of our once-thriving churches.  Finally, we talk about what Baptists are really good at...or at least we think they are...recruitment!For an OFFICIAL view of the Southern Baptist Convention, visit their website at sbc.net

Episode 031 Orthodox Presbyterian Church, the Frozen Chosen, Whiskey, and Predestination.After a few weeks of silence from us (damned cracked laptop screen) we FINALLY return with an amazing, over-the-top, *ahem*, very decent, orderly, and stiff review of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Don't confuse this small, conservative sect of Presbyterianism with the groups often thought of as "mainline" Presbyterians, but DO learn about the larger Calvinist and Reformed movement as we explore this sect's history.  We try a shot of whiskey (stiff enough for the staunchest Presbyterian) and we decide to never do it again (the whiskey or the OPC?  We'll let you decide...).  We talk about the dangers of defining denominations as "Biblical," discuss various polities, Presbyterianism being one, and we DO discuss the concept of "The Frozen Chosen" and why that doesn't have to be a bad thing.  We also cover what the hell (literally) is predestination...and hopefully Joshua sort of got it right.  Presbyterians/Reformed folk, let us know...For an OFFICIAL view of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, visit their website at opc.org

Episode 030 Pentecost w/the Pentecostals (Assemblies of God), Memorial Day, and CocktailsThis week we revisited our Pentecostal friends, but this time with the Assemblies of God denomination.  Wendy's sister, Carla, joins us to share our cocktail of the week (in place of the wine of the week) and it is delicious.  We discuss a brief history of the Assemblies of God, and what makes them different from other Pentecostal denominations and other Christian sects.  We discuss why we chose Pentecost Sunday to revisit the Pentecostals, why we were the only ones in that sanctuary who knew or cared that it was Pentecostal Sunday, Joshua points out that Wendy wore the wrong color for Pentecost--and Wendy reminds Joshua that he isn't exactly a trend setter.  Joshua talks about what made this service surprisingly boring for him, having had a history in the Pentecostal movement.  We especially discuss the significance of Memorial Day in this service and the way in which the church sometimes engages in nationalistic idol worship, but we also discuss the struggle that Christians have in taking time to talk about the human cost of war and provide space in communities of faith for those who have experienced it firsthand.Carla's "King Kong" cocktail recipe:A rocks glass with crushed or cubed ice1 Church Hoppers Shotglass (or any 1 oz shot glass) of Svetka Strawberry Colada (vodka)1 oz Malibu Rum (or other coconut rum)1 oz pineapple juice1/4 oz of sweetened lime juiceA splash of SpriteChopped strawberries for the garnishStir and enjoy!For an OFFICIAL view of the Assemblies of God, visit their website ag.org

Episode 029 Catholics, condoms, communion, and ChristendomThis week we went back to a familiar place for us, a Catholic Mass.  We talk about the history of the Catholic church which basically hits the high points of all Christian history...well, drunk Christian history anyway.  We discuss the evolution of the Catholic church and the beliefs that set it apart from other sects...like their anti-condom position.  We don't belabor the celibate religious part...but we still promote the "just say no" approach to celibacy.  We talk about the contributions to Christendom and to our own faith journeys that Catholicism has made.  And we talk about why we take communion in a church where we aren't supposed to.Joshua references his blog about taking communion at various services, available for reading at http://ellipsisthought.blogspot.com/2015/04/why-youll-have-to-refuse-me-communion.html . We explore the important of the ascension (it was Ascension Sunday) and we talk about what the future of the catholic (little 'c' meaning "universal") church could be if we could learn to be Eucharistic people.For an OFFICIAL view of the Roman Catholic church, visit the website of the Vatican at www.vatican.va

Our special Cinco De Mayo bonus episode is a short word from us about Baltimore.  We talk about why we aren't going to cover the events in Baltimore and give our full East-Texas white people perspective.  We point you to voices of people you SHOULD listen to and gain a broader perspective.  And we stand in solidarity with those activists who are on the front lines of seeking the liberation of people of color, and who are helping to shout out the message that #BlackLivesMatter. We talk about some of the missed opportunities of white Christians and the church to stand in solidarity with those who are fighting for liberation.Several voices we reference in this podcast and some others you might check out on Twitter:Broderick Greer on Twitter @BroderickGreerDeray McKesson @deray"Bougie Black Girl" @BougieBlackGirl"Brown Blaze" @brownblazeHeber Brown III @HeberBrownFranchesca Ramsey @chescaleighAlso, a link to one of Joyce DeGruy's lectures about "Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome" on YouTube  and a link to her website joydegruy.com

This week we take a break from church to talk about church news.  We discuss a few articles about church-related stuff being reported around the country and the world.  Here's what we discussed and links to the articles referenced:Bruce Jenner and God's Response to Trangendered People  We talk about the recent interview of Bruce Jenner, pronouns, and why Christians aren't loving or affirming anyone if they can't love and affirm transgendered individuals.A Texas Woman Might Use The 'Religious Freedom' Law In The Most Amazing Way Possible We discuss recent city ordinances that prohibit feeding homeless neighbors.  We talk about whose responsibility it is to feed the poor (and, perhaps surprisingly to some listeners, we don't think it's just the church).  We also talk about why "religious freedom" laws are an assault on true Christian values.United Methodist Church Raises Millions In Small Donations To Fight Malaria We take a moment to talk about the good work done by our Methodist neighbors and we even admit that there are ways in which hierarchy and organization can be beneficial.Televangelist Creflo Dollar Defends His Plans For $65 Million Private Jet: 'I Dare You To Tell Me I Can't Dream'  We tackle prosperity gospel, and the problem of money for the Christian Church.Push for Buses on Sabbath Sets Off Debate in Israel Finally, we banter about the separation of church and state and what challenges that presents in a country like Israel...and how those challenges are being faced by some religious people and their neighbors in this country too.

Episode 026 Christian Scientists, mind healing, vaccinations, and sanitized worshipThis week we worshiped with our Christian Scientist neighbors (of the Church of Christ, Scientist).  This unusual sect came out of the second great awakening in the late 1800s and was popular around the turn of the century as people flocked to its practice of mind healing as a replacement for traditional medical care.  We discuss the dangers of those practices, and the disconnect we experienced between the words they spoke about theological concepts and the applications they made in the real world.  We also talk about why they would never refer to the "real world" at all, since they believe sickness and suffering is all an illusion.  We give a PSA for people to vaccinate their children and use all the available science we have to prevent illness and epidemics!  We discuss a sanitary, almost clinical, approach to worship, but also the words of love that we heard hiding in the extended readings for the day. For a more OFFICIAL view of the Church of Christ, Scientist, visit their website at ChristianScience.com

Episode 025 Big Gay Church, the UCC, why your church needs to be LGBTQ affirming, & how not to get thereThis week we visit one of the largest predominately Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer congregations in the nation.  It is affiliated with the United Church of Christ and we give a brief overview of that denomination.  We discuss why it's ok for a church to identify as an LGBTQ congregation ("I mean, we wouldn't say we are a STRAIGHT church, would we?!" aka heterosexual privilege) and why most churches need to get their sh*+ together about the queer community...yesterday.  We talk about our own experiences with a church making the journey to become officially open and affirming, and all the things we learned NOT to do...the hard way.  We talk about the spiritual violence done to LGBTQ people by "moderate" "silent" and "holy conversation" church.  And we discuss why our experience worshiping in this congregation, with it's money, large buildings, paid clergy staff, bookstore, and every other symbol of power and institution, was still a positive worship experience.In the episode, Joshua references a blog he wrote about a not-so-"holy conversation" experience in a denominational setting.  That blog, "When Holy Conversation Isn't Holy" can be found at  http://ellipsisthought.blogspot.com/2013/07/when-holy-conversation-isnt-holy.htmlFor an OFFICIAL view of the United Church of Christ, visit their website at ucc.org

Episode 024 Jesus Movie Review: "Do You Believe?"Part of our occasional series where we review Christian films, we went to the theater to watch "Do You Believe?" from the makers of "God's Not Dead."  We had intended to post this episode before Easter but we preempted this Jesus Movie Review for our round-table panel on the resurrection of Jesus.  Our underwhelming experience with "Do You Believe" takes us on a journey of discussion where we talk about spiritual manipulation in religion, how we box up people, and terrible film writing (we're experts on everything, folks).  There's a lot of laughs along the way, helped along by the wine of the day...which is what made watching this movie even possible.  Thanks be to God. For an OFFICIAL view of "Do You Believe," check it out in a theater near you.

Episode 023 He is Risen(! or ?) Church Hoppers & Friends Discuss Holy Week & EasterThis week, we sat at table with friends for holy conversation about the meaning of Easter.  Did Jesus bodily rise?  Does it matter?  What does it mean to be "saved"?  Does it matter if Jesus of Nazareth really died or really rose?  Our group of (current and former) Presbyterian, Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, Catholic, and Agnostic seekers talk about these questions and share our own stories of death and resurrection.  We talk about how our views of Jesus and Atonement and Easter have changed over the years...and how they've remained the same.  And we find hope and life in all of our stories, in each journey.

Episode 022 Unitarian Universalists, finding home within, readings, readings, and more readingsThis week, we attended a Sunday service for the first Sunday of Spring at a Unitarian Universalist church.  Wendy announces her departure from the podcast after finding a place to call home (just kidding).  We explore this non-sectarian church which has its roots in Christianity but very much bills itself as a church that sees, in the Great Tradition, the Truth and Light within many faith traditions.  We explore what progressive, non-specific spiritual religion looks like.  We talk about why atheists or agnostics would even WANT to attend church with people of various faith views (or with anyone)...and we talk about why we'd want to as well.  We talk about when too many really great readings become...well, too many.  And we marvel at the wonder of nature and our own seasons of spiritual death, rebirth, and transition.For an OFFICIAL view of the Unitarian Universalist Association, visit their website at uua.org

Episode 021 "Fake" church, Church of God (Cleveland, TN), & a discussion on intercessory prayerThis week, we attended a midweek service of what we initially thought was a non-denominational church.  We found out it was affiliated with the Church of God (Cleveland, TN), a Pentecostal denomination.  We give it the label of "fake church" (a label we borrow and break down to really explain what that means...it isn't as bad as it sounds).  We discuss characteristics of churches that are trying really hard to be relevant (it isn't always a bad thing).  Then we dive into the sermon which was on prayer.  We ask hard questions like "if I survive a car wreck and that means God answered the prayers of people who were interceding for me, why did God let others die who were also being prayed for?" and "if you don't believe prayer is cause and effect, then why pray for others at all?"  We end up with a question Joshua poses to Wendy..."how should we teach children to pray?"  Here's a quote from part of Wendy's answer:  You can't tell children that the bad is not going to come.  But what you can tell them is that the God that is there at the beginning of the prayer will be the God at the end...What you want to happen may not happen, but God is there through the whole process...you are not alone.For an OFFICIAL view of the Church of God (Cleveland, TN) visit their website at churchofgod.org

Episode 020 Jesus Movie Review: "What If..."This is the first (maybe only?) review of a Christian film...what we are calling "Jesus Movie Review."  We watched the film "What If..." starring all the same Christian movie characters you saw in every other "Faith and Family movie."  We discuss why we needed alcohol to watch this take-off on "It's a Wonderful Life" and we ask why Christian versions of movies and music, etc., are usually so crappy.  Joshua compares the Christian film industry to the porn industry...but only because it seems like there's always the same actors and pretty similar story lines, with the same outcome every time.  We talk about what it means to be transformed and why it doesn't always look like a dramatic shift of career or other external things.  And we take a look at what real transformation may look like.  And it's messy.  But not nearly as messy as the camera action in this film.  Just saying.For an OFFICIAL view of "What If..." you can check it out yourself on Netflix or other streaming/rental platforms.

Episode 019 Pete's Dueling Piano Bar, why churches need to go to the bar more, what's wrong with our worship, and hope outside the wallsThis weekend we skipped church and went to a Piano Bar on Saturday night.  If you think that doesn't count as worship, then you'll definitely want to hear this podcast.  We discuss why church people need to go to bars more often, the gospel in the context of a bar, why worship services need to be more like a piano bar (SING LOUDER!), and how the church can find hope for itself beyond the walls and the steeple...among God's people.  This podcast started out tongue-in-cheek, but got deep really quickly...in the spirit of the Lenten season we are in, we urge you to go to your local bar, change your minds (repent), and believe the good news (the gospel).  And maybe have a few drinks and sing really loud.For an OFFICIAL view of Pete's Dueling Piano Bars, visit their website.

Episode 018 The Grace Brethren Churches, church splits, the ties that bind, more splits, and what happens when the hand doesn't go under in a Baptist baptism.This week we visited a church that is part of the Brethren movement, specifically part of the Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches.  We hike through the history of the Brethren movement and the 100s of splits (don't worry, we only hit the top 3 or 4).  We talk about what happens at a Baptist church (well, some) when the candidate for baptism has a hand that stays out of the water during FULL immersion.  We discuss why asking for our last names as first time visitors creeps us out.  We also discuss a moment in the announcement time of all times when we felt the Spirit speak truth to us about a few dresses being sown for refugee girls in the CAR (Central African Republic).  "It's just a drop in the bucket," the man said "but that shouldn't stop us from starting to do good."  We talk about the moments we spend among people of faith that look very different from us but when we feel the ties that really bind us together. For an OFFICIAL view of the Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches, visit fcgb.orgFor an article related to the crisis in the CAR that this local church was helping to bring a drop of hope to, see Foreign Policy's "Escape from a nightmare"

Episode 017 Back to school (college chapel), YWAM, agnostics, "the lost," and why mission work can be harmfulThis week we went to a conservative evangelical Christian college for one of their chapel services.  We attend with our friend Payton who joins us on the podcast.  We talk about the atmosphere for faith at these institutions and Payton "comes out" as an agnostic.  We speak to why that doesn't mean Payton is "lost" and why Christians even use that term anymore. The speaker at this chapel was from a missions organization called Youth With A Mission, or YWAM.  We discuss YWAM, their high pressure sales tactics used to recruit, their creepy ways of doing training for the young people, as well as some of the good humanitarian work they do with evangelistic zeal.  We talk about the whole phenomenon of American "missions," it's colonial mindset, and what drives us to "missionize" other cultures.  We hash out why mission trips can be so harmful to the people that we really intended to help.  

Episode 016 Why Progressive Inclusive Diverse Christianity sometimes isn't, and why the faithful can't be faithfulThis week we sit down (via the interwebs) with our new friend JD from Tennessee as he shares his story.  We move from the [independent] church of Christ to China to Memphis to the Disciples of Christ to home...it's quite a journey.  Along the way we talk about why progressive and inclusive individuals would ever leave a church that brands itself as inclusive and progressive.  We discuss, specifically, our shared experience in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and the restoration and unity movement that it represents.  But that is really just a stage for us to talk about the kind of issues that face churches across denominational lines who are seeking to be a place of justice and peace...and a place of, dare we use the used-ad-nauseum term "UNITY"?!  Sure, we dared...why not?  Don't worry, like the Disciples of Christ among whom the three of us found our home at some point along our spiritual journeys, we need not agree on anything to enjoy this discussion...and you don't have to agree with us to enjoy it either.  So grab a glass of wine and join us.For an OFFICIAL view of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) visit Disciples.org.  We also discuss the United Church of Christ, whose official site is at ucc.org.

Episode 015 Creating more worship spaces for LGBTQ African Americans and why that even needs to happenThis week we visit with Verdell, a minister and seminary student pursuing his doctorate in Washington D.C.  We discuss his journey, why he had to leave the United Methodist Church to pursue ordination in a more inclusive denomination.  Wendy weeps for the United Methodist Church of her youth and the scores of men and women who will not serve in the UMC because of a systematic policy of discrimination. Verdell introduces us to the real need that LGBTQ African Americans have to be able to worship in a space where they can be their whole, authentic selves.  He suggests that the church at large needs to provide affirmation and space for Black Christians to have conversations.  He emphasizes the need for traditional religious and political power to be set aside in those discussions so that people can be real and open.  And he calls for the church and others to create a broader safety net for individuals who are speaking up from a less-powerful position within the context of society and church...to make it safe to speak and to be heard about what matters to them.  Whether you identify as LGBTQ or not...whether you identify as Christian or not...whether or not you are black or a person of color...you will find yourself somewhere in this discussion of justice, compassion, and awareness.  Happy listening and see you in church!For more official information on "A Black Church Movement for Gay and Transgender Justice," visit ManyVoices.org

Episode 014 Paying the Jehovah's Witnesses a visit, blood atonement doctrine, and overly-eager new friendsThis episode we go knocking on the door of the local Kingdom Hall and pay a surprise visit to the Jehovah's Witnesses.  It was time to turn the tables.  We meet a lot of really friendly people who would very much like to visit with us more...VERY much! We sit through a really long service and study the exciting book of Leviticus.  We learn why leukemia patients shouldn't be one of Jehovah's Witnesses (or anyone that might need a life-saving blood transfusion, for that matter).  We talk about the real dangers of submitting personal safety and well-being to the dictates of one organization with a simplistic, narrow view of God's Word.  And, finally, we discuss the real dangers of the Christian doctrine of blood atonement, and why we believe it is so fundamentally flawed and broken as a system of understanding the redeeming work that Jesus lived out and for which he ultimately gave his life.  Grab a glass of wine (or vodka...we had both on this podcast) and let us help diffuse some of the mystery around this sect.

Episode 013 Meet the Mormons, why "cult" is a bad label, what is truth?, forever (straight) families, and a discussion about open/closed communion in ChristianityThere's a new movie out called "Meet the Mormons."  So we thought that was a great idea and we decided to take them up on the offer.  This week, we join our neighbors at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints for a worship service ("Sacrament meeting").  We discuss why labeling religious groups as "cults" is a ridiculous bit of sophistry and also why knowing what the characteristics of a cult are is important for mainstream Christians to look out for in their own churches.  We recount the fascinating and crazy history of the Mormon church.  We touch a bit on just how utterly and disgustingly ironic the LDS church's participation in the Prop 8 campaign in California was (you know there'd be a gratuitous reference to polygamy, didn't you?).  And finally, Joshua jumps on a soapbox to rant and rave against Christian churches with their bullshit communion practices that push people away from God's table rather than inviting them to supper...but then he calms down...eventually.So, if you are curious about the history of the Mormons, or how they worship, or just how similar they are to you, grab a glass of wine and join us!Mentioned briefly in the podcast, regarding the use of the term "cult," was Joshua's blog "Beautiful Doctrines from Ugly Cults."  You can read it here.

Episode 012 United Pentecostal Church, Speaking in Tongues, Field & Track worship, women in dresses, and why good music DOES matterThis week we visited a United Pentecostal Church.  Joshua has a history with the UPC but on this visit we discuss his first time in a UPC Church with a black congregation...faster than you can say "the church is still racially divided."  We discuss speaking in tongues, and Joshua keeps Wendy from calling 911 when someone starts running (no, there was no medical emergency).  There's something for everyone here...a baptismal pool right in the sanctuary, great music, a service that seems to go on forever (but not that long after all), Pert Plus communion...but where did all the crosses and hymnals go?  If you're a Pentecostal believer, a recovering Pentecostal, or one of those really curious-but-afraid-to-try-it mainline Christians, you're gonna enjoy our visit to the UPC!Got a church you want us to visit?  Leave us a comment!

Episode 011 Bonus Episode!  New Year, New Church!On this bonus episode, we invite our friend Karen to join us for a New Year's podcast drinking game (that you can play at home!), and come up with a New Year's resolution list for the church.  We've solved the world's religious problems with just one drinking game and one podcast...from fellowship, to sermon length, to musical selections, we talk about it.  So grab your favorite shots...tequila, rumchata, amaretto, rum, whatever...and join us as we do a New Year's virtual church makeover.

Episode 010 The [Independent] church of Christ, Jesus turns water into grape juice, Stepford Wives church, why drinking makes you an alcoholic while church makes you lifelessThis week we went to visit the church of Christ. We were pretty hung over when we arrived for the service that began too early (what was it?  10 AM?) but not hungover enough to truly be prepared for the sermon on alcoholic beverages. Join us as we take you on a not-so-rousing, very orderly ride (driven by all men) to the Bible-authorized church where you can learn just how not-too-joyful-not-too-anything following the Bible and Jesus can make you...and we'll sing about it too.  A Capella, of course!  And those songs will be quite beautiful.Just share the link to the episode from the Facebook page and send us your mailing address for a shotglass to use before your very own visit to church.

Episode 009 An Advent Carol 4: Ghost of Xmas Yet to Come, Truman's take,  and how to save the church by losing itThis week, the final week of Advent, we conclude our Advent podcast theme: Scrooge and the Church.Truman returns with expert 4 year old knowledge (that isn't sarcasm) about death and rebirth and why people and systems die spiritually ("If he doesn't be a good Scrooge, he will die").  We talk about some of the discussions we have with our friends still in the church, our "True Believer" friends as we like to call them.  Joshua confesses how he labels "the church" unfairly sometimes because it's far easier than the hard work of nuance (but also more pointed).  Wendy challenges Joshua on the notion that churches or denominations are movers and shakers for justice and peace and makes the case that it is really passionate individuals that get made into poster children (or get quietly tucked away, depending on the situation).  We discuss why denominations don't matter, why Christmas still does, and why death is the true hope of the church that wants new birth.For an "OFFICIAL" Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays from us at the Church Hoppers, just share our Episode status update from the Church Hoppers Podcast Facebook page and then message the page with an address for us to ship your Christmas gift...a Church Hoppers shotglass.  GOD BLESS US, EVERYONE!

Episode 008 An Advent Carol week 3: The Ghost of Christmas Present, systemic racism in the church, seeing people for who they are, and debunking the myths about #BlackLivesMatterThis week, the third week of Advent, we continue our Advent podcast theme: Scrooge and the Church.Blogger, candidate for priesthood in the Episcopal church, and social justice activist, Broderick, joins us for an important discussion about the systems that suffocate.  Broderick helps us define some terms and what we mean and what he means when we use the word "church."  We discuss the role of the church and why Christians aren't leading the way in terms of speaking out for the oppressed.  We talk about why racial justice is an important for the souls of privileged whites in this country as it is for the lives of people of color.  We tackle the problem with torture and why it is just one more chapter in the book of America that fits the chapters that precede it.Finally, we have a devil's advocate section where Joshua challenges Broderick to respond to some of the memes floating around the blogtuaries of FB, Twitter, etc, concerning race in America, Michael Brown, #BlackLivesMatter, and the myths that keep us from really seeing people and things for who and what they are.For a more OFFICIAL view of how the events in Ferguson and across this country are part of Christ's Advent in 2014, please check out Broderick's piece on HuffPo "If Time Were an Ocean."  It is extremely thoughtful and poignant, and part of our must-have advent devotional reading material this year.  You can also follow Broderick on Twitter @BroderickGreer.We're still giving away free stuff, packed and shipped with love, peace, and joy...just share our Episode status update from the Church Hoppers Podcast Facebook page and then message the page with an address for us to ship your shot glass!

Episode 007 An Advent Carol week 2:  The Ghost of Christmas Past, systemic church racism, white privilege theology, and why we can't breatheThis week, the second week of Advent, we continue our Advent podcast theme: Scrooge and the Church.We are joined by James, a seminarian, writer, and freedom fighter, who shares his truth, perspective, and insights to help us talk about the history of the church...and talk about why neither of us Church Hoppers really learned the truth of it growing up in white Protestant America. We talk about recent protests, and why the church isn't talking about them.  We talk about the seduction of "neutrality" in moral issues and societal challenges (while drinking the wine of the day, "Seduction").  James introduces us and the listeners to the idea of a "middle passage" theology how the church has solidified white privilege in the church.  We face the ghosts of our past, all the way back to a Jew 2000 years ago who died a victim of police brutality...and we discuss whether or not change will come.Below are a list of the blogs written by James that are referenced in the podcast...they are the best Advent devotional reading you will do this year:Strange Fruit that Hangs from American SeminariesBenjamin Watson, Sin Cannot be Homogenized #FergusonTransforming Riots into Redemptive MovementsWhy Do You Strike Me? A Christological Exploration of Police Brutality.Don't Invite Me to the Table (Allow Me to Help You Turn it over and Take it out): Why the Word Reconciliation Makes Me Want to HollerThe Miracle of a Muddy Messiah: A #staywokeadvent Reflection of Mark 1:1-8For some OFFICIAL views of the theological implications of the social justice and civil rights movements happening across the country right now, go talk to the protesters in the streets and check out James' website jameshhilljr.com as well as his twitter account @j_hilljr, and the twitter account for Theology of Ferguson @faithinferguson.We want to give away even more FREE shot glasses for Christmas this year...just share our Episode status update from the Church Hoppers Podcast Facebook page and then message the page with an address for us to ship your shot glass!

006 An Advent Carol week 1: The Ghost of Jacob Marley prophesies to the institutional church, Truman, and a box of wineThis week, the first week of Advent, we discuss our Advent podcast theme: Scrooge and the Church.We back up our claim that, in A Christmas Carol, the character of Scrooge really is just like the Church institution today...we drink boxed wine for the first time on the podcast, give away FREE Church Hoppers Podcast shot glasses, and learn big lessons from a little 4 year old named Truman. Then, heeding the warning of Jacob Marley to Scrooge, we talk about the dilemma the Church faces today: to either be transformed into a voice of authenticity and truth, or to be dismissed by an entire generation of Christians and spiritual pilgrims and seekers.Would you like to be the next person to get a FREE, one of a kind, no alcohol included, Church Hoppers Podcast shot glass?  Well, get yours today while supplies last...just share our Episode status update from the Church Hoppers Podcast Facebook page and then message the page with an address for us to ship your shot glass!

Episode 005 The Episcopal Church, communion guard rails, privilege, and FergusonThis week we visit the Episcopal Church.  But first, Joshua shares a 3 minute personal message about how our church hopping from East Texas has any connection at all with the events in Ferguson, MO, and why #BlackLivesMatter.  Really, it is a quick overview of why we even do this at all...and why it could be important to people besides just the two of us. We'll also discuss beautiful churches, crazy King Henry the Eighth, guard rails at the altar, and privilege in church (racial, gender-specific, socio-economic, religious, et. al.).  The best news about the Episcopalians is that they drink without all the guilt...so grab an Episcopalian friend, the booze of your choice, a comfortable chair, and join us in church this week!Visit EpiscopalChurch.org for an official review of this sect.

Episode 004 Quakers, Burbon Street, and Drunk History: What does George Fox Say?The Church Hoppers visit with a group of the Religious Society of Friends, also known as "Quakers." We joined the meeting during our vacation to New Orleans...after a night on the town and allllllllll the drinks on Burbon Street, the silent worship was SOoOoOo nice!  We went towards the Light, remained quiet for a while, and hung out with some "Friends" (with a capital F) and some friends.After a drunk history version of Quaker history, we discuss unprogrammed worship, the principle of equality among Quakers, the universality of The Light, and how all churches can benefit from clear directional signs, because...yeah.Visit Quaker.org or the website of the Friends General Conference for an official review of this sect.Like the podcast?  Show some love!  Subscribe, like, comment and share!

 Episode 003 The Independent Fundamental BaptistsWe put the "Fun" back in "Fundamentalism" in our visit to an Independent Baptist Church!  Join us with our special guest, Kelsey, as we discuss Veteran's day, nationalism and militarism in church, 90s hairstyles, and Kelsey's nose ring.There is no "official" website for Independent Fundamental Baptist churches, but one helpful directory to find KJV-only IFB churches can be found at the fundamental.org directory page.  Subscribe to the podcast on iTunes!  

Episode 002 Reformation & The LutheransJoin the Church Hoppers this week for a trip to visit the Lutherans (ELCA).  Joshua and Wendy discuss Reformation, then and today, and why it seems nearly impossible to REALLY accomplish in the church.  This podcast is filled with plenty of opinionated musings on everything from the recent Mars Hill Church developments, to the popularity of Pope Francis, to the state of mainline churches today.Visit the official website of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) for an OFFICIAL review of this church.The Church Hoppers Podcast will launch to the iTunes store soon.  Watch this blog or our Facebook page ("Church Hoppers Podcast") for more info.  The discussion always continues here and online.  Your comments, questions, critiques, and ideas are welcome!