Podcasts about chuck how

As a former CNN Intelligence Correspondent and Executive Producer, Suzanne Kelly knows better than to trust every headline that she reads online. However, with the rise of AI-generated images and disinformation, it's critical to take an informed approach to what we read – taking into account where it comes from and why it's being shared. The Cipher Brief addresses this threat by bringing together the expertise of the public and private sectors to provide stronger national security for all. Founded by Kelly in 2015, it is a national security-focused media organization that takes a firm stance on providing clear, accurate, and trusted information. Kelly is also the founder of The Cyber Initiatives Group and produces The Cipher Brief's Annual Threat Conference. Follow her on LinkedIn.Key topics of Kelly's discussion with host Chuck Randolph include:Why the private sector has shifted over time to take on a pivotal role in geopolitics, shape the way information is shared, and influence the speed of innovation.The rising threat of misinformation and disinformation and what security leaders can do to encourage sharing informed, accurate information and avoid chasing down false threats.Why Kelly is driven to bring insights to the forefront and help people solve geopolitical problems impacting their business.Key takeaways:03:43: Suzanne Kelly - I felt like the private sector was not only impacted by what was happening around the world but serves as the backbone of the US economy which is really a humongous component of national security. I've been really interested since February 2022 and the months preceding the Russian invasion of Ukraine — looking at the private sector's role there as well as the significant shift in how the world is dealing with geopolitical events like this war. Watching how the private sector came into that arena and started sharing technologies in ways that didn't always go through layers of government bureaucracy has spoken to the speed of innovation in the private sector.09:56: Chuck - How should leaders think about misinformation and disinformation?  Our job is to enable decision-makers, so how do we critically look at the news that's coming to us today and make sure that our bosses aren't succumbing to bias or false information?10:40: Suzanne Kelly - Disinformation and misinformation is an incredibly risky threat to the United States. Obviously, it spreads beyond the borders but just what we've seen with elections and rhetoric and emotion and how outside entities can take a single bit of truth from something and then weave a web of lies around it. And then drop that into social media feeds and other places where Americans are so conditioned to get information at their fingertips to make snap decisions to reshare things. We need to become a nation of critical thinkers that quickly discern where a source is coming from if it's a credible place and if the organization that they're reading from names sources or if they're anonymous - why? I think having a country that is full of critical thinkers is going to be a lot better for our future than having a country of people inclined to believe a headline.

Clint and Chuck take a deep dive into the 3 Pillars that Warriors Unmasked is based and built on, what each pillar means to them, and how each applies to their journey.   LINKS: malarchuk.com/book malarchuk.com www.thecompassionateconnection.com www.warriorsunmasked.com Follow us on Instagram Like us on Facebook   QUICK EPISODE SUMMARY You are not alone Everyone has story The 3 pillars of Warriors Unmasked The importance of perseverance  When Chuck was courageous  The power of vulnerability Blessing in disguise When things changed for Chuck How to start liking yourself

Some of the most popular episodes we've aired have been with guests who have experienced the buying or selling process firsthand. Today's guest has acquired several businesses and is genuinely good at the acquisition process. In part one of a two-part series, Chuck is talking to Mike Nunez about his various acquisitions and his 9 super secret to tips to being a great buyer. Mike has been in the online marketing space since 1999. After gaining experience in affiliate marketing, he launched Affiliate Manager with his brother while he continued to work full time for Google. More recently, Mike has purchased several e-commerce businesses from Quiet Light. We'll hear about how Mike is becoming one of our top buyers, how he's realizing his dreams, and that one last goal he may just reach. Episode Highlights: What it means to be a good buyer. What values the seller looks for aside from the monetary value. Ways to put the seller at ease by focusing on what is important to them. The importance of having a plan in your approach to the seller. How to accept and value of the previous owner's advice during the transition. Why you should avoid poor positioned questions when working with the seller. The buyer needs to find what he wants – the fit has to be right for the buyer too. Finding the component that will help make the business yours and not focus solely on the money piece. The relationship of trust in your broker is also a key factor in being a good buyer or seller. Transcription: Mark: Some of the most popular podcasts that we've put out here at Quiet Light Brokerage are the episodes where we get the chance to interview either a seller or a buyer on their background or their journey of going through a buying an online business. And Chuck I know you had a good friend of ours, a good friend of Quiet Light Brokerage's and a previous podcast guest as well, Mike Nuñez on because he's acquired a couple of businesses from us and more specifically from you in the recent months. How did that discussion go? Chuck: Yeah it went great. Mike is what I would consider probably one of our best buyers. The way he's able to get on a phone call and just talk to people, and sometimes I use the word tactics throughout the call. I don't feel like when he's doing it he's being tactical, I feel like he's just a very genuinely friendly guy who is just really good. His experience is that he's been in internet marketing for 20 years I've been in it for 24 so he's almost up there with me. Mark: He worked at Google so he's got that on you. Chuck: Yeah, he worked at Google for four years in the paid search department. So he talks a lot about on this one so I ended up having to split this up into two podcasts because it was just going so long. So the first one we talked about his nine super-secret tips to being a great buyer and there was a lot of really actionable stuff in there that I think everybody is going to be able to get a lot out of. Mark: Guys that's awesome and you talk about the difference between tactics and just being a good guy and look they can blend together, right? I mean Mike isn't the type of conniving guy saying here's what I'm going to do, I'm going to say this phrase and that phrase to make sure somebody absolutely loves me and then I'm going to be able to get an additional 20% off. That's not the way he works. He is just generally a good guy. He helps a lot. He's got that help first mentality. We preach this all the time and Joe is the one that coined a lot of these phrases which is nice buyers tend to do better. And it's just really, really true that sometimes we need tips on how to do it. This is why Dale Carnegie wrote the famous book How to Win Friends and Influence People just to give us some actionable tips to be like how do you actually encounter people in a business environment in a way that will benefit you. And if you read the book you find out that a lot of it is; well it starts with that right disposition and who you are. And Mike is a good person. I love that you broke this out into nine tips. Are you able to give me any preview of any of the nine tips or do you not remember them offhand? Chuck: Yeah. So one of the questions is around positioning the way you ask questions I think it's a really good tip. I won't get into all the details but you'll see it in the video. Mark: Okay, so not just going out there and hammering people with questions in a very kind of combatant way but I'm sure Mike has a very unique approach to that. Chuck: Well, Mark I just said I'm not going to get into the details. Don't try to pressure me. Mark: Alright. You know what I was talking to Joe the other day and he's like do you listen to the podcasts, Mark? And I said no, I don't because I hear enough of you Joe I don't want to hear more of you and he records all the episodes. So he said your intros are getting to be too long so let's cut it out. Let's get to it. Chuck: Hey everybody today on the call we have Mike Nuñez. Welcome, Mike. Mike: Thank you, Chuck, it's great to be here. Chuck: So people may have heard your name before because we mentioned you quite frequently on the podcast. And the reason we mentioned you so frequently is because you're what I would consider my number one buyer. I think probably one of Quiet Light's top buyers and not from a monetary perspective. You do purchase a lot of businesses, you purchase a lot of large businesses from us but more so just from your personality; the way you interact with clients on phone calls like whenever I'm telling somebody how to be a good buyer I'm always in my head thinking what does Mike do and then I'm telling them what Mike does in order to be a good buyer. Because we're friends and I know you outside of Quiet Light but like I really do mean that. Like you are really a great buyer and you're easy to talk to. And if anybody's watching the video today they're going to notice that you look somewhat like a sports commentator with that headset on and you've got a suit and tie and the suit and tie isn't the normal way I see Mike but one of the businesses he purchased was a custom-tailored suit business so I guess he's got to rep that brand now. Mike: That's right. Chuck: But maybe you could tell everybody a little bit about yourself. Mike: Oh great. I'm happy to. And first, let me say thank you. That was super just kind of you to say. I always whenever I have any of these phone calls I just take an approach of what I want to hear and recognizing that these business owners have been working on this; their babies, right? And you just have to be careful as you ask questions because we all want to know where the opportunity is and I'm sure we'll talk much more about that here but we want to know where the opportunity is and the way that you find that is by asking questions. But it's a very fine line between asking questions and becoming insulting and so you just have to walk that fine line. But there's absolutely a way to do it and there's a way to lead these sellers into that and realizing that you're both kind of on the same team. But again; well I think we're getting ahead of ourselves or at least I am so I'll tell you a little bit about me to start this off. I've been in online marketing since 1999, I was in college at the time and I know that dates myself a little bit. The first job was in lead generation, online marketing. I moved in to travel doing affiliate marketing and travel. I eventually launched my own affiliate marketing business along with my brother that's still going today so its AffiliateManager.com. Last year we merged with a company called Rhino Fish to create the performance company which is our page search division. Overall that marketing company is about 22 people. We have 3 former Googlers myself included on that staff. So we're quite good at both affiliate marketing and paid search. I like to say so. We also have two other businesses or I have two other businesses; one is an outdoor equipment seller that I purchased from Quiet Light, another is a custom made to measure suit company that I purchased from Quiet Light as well. So overall I'm about 20 years down it hurts to say experience in online marketing and business and online businesses in general and it's been a really fun journey. I always like to say Chuck my dream used to be I want to be able to work from anywhere and now I'm there. The new dream is that I want to not have to work. So someday I'll realize that second dream. Chuck: I don't like to hear that because I think the term not working would be not buying additional businesses and you're one short away from a special goal that I; I told him if you bought a certain number that I would buy him a specific thing. So he's just shy of that goal. Mike: Yeah it's just without getting into too many details like we're talking about less than what is it 4% on millions of dollars that I'm short. Chuck: But I set this goal early on, right? So it's your fault that you haven't reached it. If you have just paid a little bit more in that last acquisition you would have hit that goal. Mike: We need to round up Chuck. That's what I'm saying. We need to just round up and I should hit that threshold. Chuck: I'll remember that on the next acquisition. We'll just round up. Mike: Right. Yeah. Only when it's in my favor, please. Chuck: So part of the reason I wanted to have you on the call today was one just to talk about maybe some tips or just maybe even not tips but just discussing what it is to be a good buyer. But then also from your perspective what it is you're looking at when you're looking to buy businesses. I know you have a specific criteria that you're looking for and your criteria is different than other people's. And I wanted to also maybe talk about some lessons you've learned along the way. So I guess to kick it off maybe let's just dive in a little bit about being a good buyer. So I would start off just by saying that you know I talked to a lot of people; constantly I'm on the phone and people are always asking me what it is to be a good buyer? And some people I talked to think that in order to be a good buyer it's about being aggressive in trying to negotiate. And maybe they're not thinking that as being a good buyer but they want to try to get the best deal by doing that and they'll say negative things about people's businesses. And you take a very different approach than that. So I think you already addressed it a little bit but maybe you want to dive into maybe the approach you take to negotiating and to speaking with others. Mike: Sure. I think it's important context to say both of the businesses that I've purchased from you Chuck and Quiet Light had multiple offers, were very much generating a lot of interest and so there were multiple potential buyers. And I don't want to say we were the lowest offer. I don't think we were. I know in both cases we weren't the highest offer either. Chuck: Yeah just maybe to add a little context before you dive into further, one of the; I think actually both of them said I wanted to sell to Mike. So they're talking to multiple people and they said get Mike up to this number I want to sell to him. Even though that number was lower than what some of the other potential buyers were offering. Mike: Yeah. Chuck: So I think that speaks a lot to you. Mike: Thank you again, Chuck. But I would say that therein lies the quote-unquote the secret which is money is valuable, right? They want money. If you're nowhere near what they're asking or if you're nowhere near what their magic number is, the rest of this conversation goes away. Let's put that aside. I think Quiet Light does an incredible job overall of valuing companies fairly and appropriately. And you know that walking in. So if you know that walking in okay this is a fairly and appropriately valued business now it's a matter of percentage points maybe either way and in either direction of that. The purpose of the call, at least the initial call is to identify; one of the purposes of the call is to identify what value is this seller seeking beyond the dollars because the dollars are going to fall within a certain range. So a good example for the suit business is the seller really cared about his people. He really cared about his co-workers that he's had for the last however many years; almost 10 years that have put in their blood, their sweat, their tears into this. And he wanted to know that they were going to be okay. And I think actually in the ranking of why I won the business even though I had a lower offer than other people had, that's probably number one is just feeling comfortable about that the new owner is going to come in and take care of the people that were there. And I made no promises. Let me say that. I didn't say I promise I'm not going to let anybody go or I promise; I said no, I promise I'm going to be fair and appropriate with everybody and evaluate everybody based on performance. And he was confident knowing that he had hired stellar people. And it was part of what was so attractive about the business is he had incredible people that were already working there so it made it even more attractive for us. So I think that was number one for him. Second I think there was a sense of patriotism maybe. So this is a European company. It was based in Europe. It's in a European country. And this European country is kind of known for textiles and for creating things and such. And so I think one of the other buyers; and again there's multiple people in here that you're kind of competing against and so you got to think of like a pros and cons checklist and I'm being compared to each one of these other potential buyers in their pros and cons checklist. One of the other potential buyers wanted to move the production out of Europe and into China. There's nothing wrong with that if that's where their connections are if that's where their factories are and such; great. That's where they want to move their production, good for them. However this particular seller wanted to keep production because of his pride for his country, because of his desire to benefit his country, he wanted to keep production in his home country. I didn't have any alternative contacts in China or in any other potential production areas and so I felt like that was important to them and so I made it known. And I think a lot of, and I think it's the second thing is kind of just listening on the calls. Maybe that's super-secret number two is listening and hearing what's important to them and asking that question okay let's move money aside what's important to you in the future of this company? And another good example of that is potential branding or taking care of the customers. I know this may sound a little bit cliché but this is their baby, right? They've grown this baby. They've watched this baby grow. They've poured their love, their sweat, their tears, their hours. The seller of the custom suit company is an example. I remember him saying like I can't remember the last time I took a vacation. He just poured everything he possibly had into this company. And so when you're that invested overall they just kind of feel a comfort level that the new owner is going to come in and do right by what they've built. They just don't want to see it go away and it's they've already got their cash at that point and they still care. And I will say one positive side effect and please know that this is partly or mostly; not even partly, mostly because of the owner and this is one of the criteria; we can talk more about this later, but one of the criteria that I look at is an owner that cares and they're selling for potentially a different reason other than they don't care about the business anymore. I think those are the ones that kind of phone it in afterwards. The two owners of the businesses that I've purchased are still very much invested. One of them still works full time in the company and works as hard today as when he owned it. And I am very appreciative for that. Same thing for the custom suit company, he chimes in all the time. Like hey, this is how we did things, this is how we did it. It's so helpful in the transition of a company to have the context of somebody who built this business from the ground up. And I think the super-secret number three there is when somebody is on your side, let them be. Both of their intentions aren't to harm the business in any way. They want to see it grow. And even though in both instances there's been times where we didn't quite agree on how to take things to the next level, we absolutely welcomed their feedback and sometimes they were right. Sometimes we were right. Kind of checking your pride and moving it to the side for a second when you're good at something and allowing them to tell you, yes I know you're good at this, let me tell you how what you're doing applies specifically to the business that you're purchasing from me. It's a really important lesson in the growth of the business which might be a good segway Chuck if it's okay with you to start talking about the lessons learned for some of the businesses or did you want more on…? Chuck: Before we move on you mentioned that both of the owners of the businesses were kind of still somewhat involved in the company. Is that something you're specifically looking for or was that just a happenstance of you buying a good quality business that had an owner that actually cared about the business? Mike: So in neither instance was it a requirement beforehand that the owner would stay on with the business post-acquisition. The first acquisition, the owner requested it. They said hey I see the plan and I didn't intend to call out these super-secrets but let's call it the super-secret number four is have a plan. Don't just walk in and say hey I'd like to buy your business. In that instance, I just so happened to be in London and as I'm trying to buy this business the owner of the business lived in an island off of the coast of Morocco. I had a free weekend while I was in London and I flew over and met with him and his wonderful wife and they were gracious. They took me to dinner. I insisted but they wouldn't let me treat for dinner. I think they were just thankful that I flew to go visit them and talk about the business; so just again that personal connection there. So while it wasn't a requirement that they stay with the business post-acquisition I'm always open to it if they're open to it. And I started talking about the plan; having the plan and being able to approach them. In both instances they got excited. One of them and I'll try to talk vague because I don't want to say anything about either one of them that they wouldn't want me to share. But one of them said when I said why are you selling it they said well I'm almost running out of ideas. Like I don't know what the next thing to do is. I don't know where to take this next and how to make it grow. And so for me, it's a choice of whether we stay at the level that we are now and continue happily down that path. Or do I allow my baby to grow by giving it to somebody who's going to take it to that next level? And so to be able to show them okay not only can we take it to next level here's how; yes, you recognize we have the experience before this on how to get this to that next level but here let me lay out the plan in front of you. And all throughout the while of reviewing the business and going to the website I have a checklist and I'll go over some of the points with you later today, here's all the opportunities that we think that we can have. And based off of those opportunities that's how we create the plan. And then we plug that into our for lack of a better word, our company acquisition algorithm to say okay is this worthwhile? And based off of the competitive advantages that we have with this business can we offer a little more? Do we need to offer a little less? Like where do we think that we're going to fit into this overall picture? So I feel like I didn't fully answer your question. The answer is no we don't require the owners to stay on post-acquisition. We are completely open to it. We prefer it. In both instances, they're both quite engaged overall. And just to reiterate the point maybe super-secret number five is if somebody wants to be on your side let them be. And in this instance, both the previous owners want to be on our side. They want to give us the feedback. We 100% remain open to receiving that feedback even if it's counter to what we want to achieve we'll at least receive it. I have a philosophy that you're not entitled to have a point if you can't justify it. And so if they come to me and say hey I think you're doing this incorrectly or I don't think you're doing this right. I tell myself okay, here's an expert that's owned this business for a long time, they feel strongly enough to come to me and say I think you're doing this incorrectly. I feel strongly that I'm doing it this way. But feeling trolling isn't good enough. I need to go pull data, go look at numbers, go say why are we doing it this way. And then I go back to them and say okay here's the reason why we're doing this way and they can poke holes in it or say no you know what that looks good. I wish I would have known that when I had the business. So I think that answers your question, Chuck. Chuck: Yeah I think so. And maybe secret; what number are we on, number six? Mike: I think we're on number six now. Chuck: Okay, so I would say super-secret number six, what you kind of just alluded to and what you didn't is you know when in school like high school or whatever and the teacher is like oh there's no such thing as a dumb question. There 100% is such a thing as a dumb question when you're talking to a seller. I would say super-secret number six is be prepared when you get on a call, be dedicated to the call that you're on, don't be in a car with a lot of background noise. Be at a desk, be in one place, do some research, if there's an interview to watch, watch the interview with the seller, read the package, ask intelligent questions about the business. It's okay to ask something that's already been addressed in the package if you want some additional information but show that you've actually researched the business because constantly when I'm talking to my sellers and we get off a phone call they're like that guy is not serious, don't connect me with him again. They want to know that you're serious and a way to show that you're serious is to have done some research ahead of time and ask intelligent questions about the business. And that's something that you definitely do. Mike: Thanks, Chuck. And I think that goes with having a plan. Like I don't have the time, I know you don't have the time, I don't have the time, I'm sure the sellers don't have the time to just sit there and answer questions that for somebody who clearly isn't prepared for the call it's a horrible signal to the seller that you're not serious about this that even if you do have the cash, even if all other things fall into place you're not going to be an organized person handling their business moving forward. So it's just an awful signal to send upfront. And I think one of the other things that you said; I don't want to say that there's bad questions, there's unprepared questions. Chuck: There are bad questions. I've had them on my calls. Mike: Okay. Chuck: And I know you're; Mike again this gets back to Mike being a super nice guy and doesn't want to; there are dumb questions and I've had many of them on my calls. Mike: I'm still going to stay that there's poorly positioned questions. And one of them might be hey Chuck I feel like this is a really dumb question and so forgive me for asking what's going to seem like a dumb question but it's just weighing on me and I need to ask it. That's a well-positioned dumb question. Another really good example of that is starting a call. I have a big belief and maybe this might be in one of the other super- secrets but we'll call it super-secret number seven, are we on seven now? So super-secret number seven, figure out what they want and give it to them. And again part of that is money but that's the beauty of working with a broker especially Quiet Light, that part's already figured out. That's almost done. They've declared that this is the multiple that they want now it's up to you to figure out does that fit within your company acquisition algorithm. Can I afford this based off of all of these criteria? And again I'll go through some of those in a little bit. Move that aside and now figure out what do they want. Do they want to stay on with the business? Do they want to hand it over to somebody who's going to keep the work within their country or somebody who isn't going to start selling poorly made products to their customer base that they've built up over time? Figure out what they want and give it to them. It's the best negotiation technique. If you walk into a call or a negotiation and you're trying to think how can I squeeze every dime out of this person on the other side of this phone call; I mean good luck to you, you may win or you may not. I have the philosophy of; I took a course from the Wharton School of Business one time and we talked about negotiation and one of the things we talked about was the difference between an average hitter in baseball and a Hall of Fame hitter in baseball is one in nine hits. If you can get one more hit in nine at-bats, that's the difference between average and Hall of Fame. The same thing with negotiation, if you can get one more hit in nine at-bats it's potentially a huge difference in the overall success that you're going to have. So same thing here, and so I approach the call as hey let's figure this out together and I'm listening the entire time trying to figure out what's important to the person on the other side of the call. Also, another; super-secret number eight is going to be disarming the call. It doesn't have to be this contentious conversation where I'm battling you for information. That's not the case. I start out almost every call and you can attest to this Chuck, and by the way, I've purchased a couple. I've probably had maybe less than 10 but several phone calls with people. Some of them after the call I decide this is not the right fit for me. I can't give them what they want so I just walk away and I go on to the next business. Other ones I've made offers for and maybe somebody else was giving something that they wanted and I didn't get that. But the two that I've got I'm very happy with thus far. But when I start the call I say hey I need to ask some questions and some of these questions might come across the wrong way. They may seem offensive or it may seem like I'm trying to prod or I'm trying to poke, all I'm looking for is opportunity. What opportunity exists in your business? And I'm trying to use it to go justify pulling this money out of other places and spending it and handing it over to you. So I'm looking for your help in bridging that gap here. And so when you position it that way and say help me get there it's amazing how they almost start to fall over themselves to tell you all of the potential opportunities in the business beyond what they've already written into the marketing package. And I'll even call that out. I've read the marketing package. I see that you see that this is an opportunity, this is an opportunity, this is an opportunity, based off of some research that I've done I think that this might be an opportunity. Is there a reason why you haven't attacked that market? Is there a reason why you haven't advertised on this channel? Is there a reason why this or this or that? And after you've position that I'm looking for opportunity, I want to make this happen, help me get there, usually they're quite open and willing to volunteer that information. So I'll call that super-secret number eight. Chuck: Yup, number eight. I can see the headline of this interview now; eight super-secrets of Mike Nuñez. We've got to get it to like 9 or 10 maybe. So yeah I think that those are some really good tactics. And I hate to use the word tactic because I don't feel like it's a tactic. I guess it is but like that's just your normal personality and maybe some people don't have it. But I think one of the major takeaways there is don't be super aggressive with a seller. Like the businesses we sell at Quiet Light, they're generally speaking super high quality with owners that care. It's not we generally; like sometimes we do but often it's not people that are just starting a business to flip, to flip, to flip. These are people who started a business because it's something they're passionate about and they're ready to move on for one reason or another and they want to pass on the torch to somebody who cares. And when you come in aggressive and if you try to beat down their business or things like that, that doesn't work. Maybe if you're working on a 100 million dollar deal and you got to like get in there and be super aggressive like that doesn't work with what we're doing at all. Mike: I just have to add to that Chuck because I think it's like if it works you should be worried. If it works it's probably not the right business. Like that's not; feel free to take this out Chuck if I shouldn't or can't talk about this but in the last offer I made I did not get the business. I made an offer but in our call, I recognized that what they were looking for was a quick close and a short close. They wanted to make sure that it closed. They wanted to do it quickly. And that was beyond the dollars and it was very fairly priced already, beyond the dollars that's what was important to them. And so for the caller just to give you an example of how much I personally trust after physically spending millions of dollars with Quiet Light already I made an offer, all cash so that they knew that this was going to close. I offered close at your convenience. And third I offered no due diligence. Now I wouldn't recommend that for everybody and all things. Chuck: I don't recommend that either. Do not offer to close. This is a certain special deal with a person that is a known entity that was trusted. You should always do your due diligence. Don't listen to Mike. Don't rely on us to do due diligence. It is your job to do the due diligence. Mike: 100% that was my decision that I was aware of this company, the numbers were small enough where even if this was a complete disaster it wouldn't be a disaster for me. But it was a complete cash offer, it was a complete quick close and I offer that with the hope that that was the value that they were looking for that was not a cash value that would allow them to choose me because they had; I mean I don't even know how many Chuck. Chuck: There were nine offers on the deal and you were; because of that they wanted to sell that component to you but the other offer was just so much; it was more money, the guy was willing to do a quick close as well so it just beats you out. They wanted to sell it to you. The other guy was just; it was a better offer with the other person. Mike: Understood. And so I got close right with the untangible non-monetary aspects of the offer.; it got me super close, right? I almost got that extra hit and that nine tenth bat. So just a good example of listening to what they want, trying to give it to them, and it's going to save you dollars in the long run. And the fact that they were considering me sounds like even though my offer was lower; yet again that seems to be the MO here overall. And by the way, I made a full price offer so it wasn't even like I made an under offer. I made a full price offer but somebody beat the full price offer and I'm still under consideration. Chuck: And just to let maybe another super-secret number nine; this isn't Mike's this is mine so I think that's like two of the nine. Listen to the broker. If I'm telling you something there's a reason I'm telling you it. Like when I say this is going to sell for at or above asking, it's probably going to sell for at or above asking. I'm not just trying to increase the price, right? I do represent the seller and I'm trying to do my best to get as much value for the seller but I'm not going to do that by lying. I'm going, to be honest. There's things I can't say to you. If you say well what's the other asking price is or what's the other offers, I can't tell you that but I will try to lead you in the direction of making an offer that's going to be accepted. Don't think that we're just; if I tell you there's multiple offers, there are multiple offers. I'm not just B-S-ing you. And we get it all the time where I tell people there's multiple offers put your best highest final offer in and then yeah okay asking price and I'm like put your best offer like I'm just telling you and then it goes for above asking and then the person is mad oh why didn't you tell me? I would've put a higher offer. And it's like I did tell you; I told you to put your best offer in. Like I don't want you to stretch, I don't want you to put an offer that makes you uncomfortable but you need to put your best offer in if you want to win this business. Mike: So I just want to say to that people have been kind of beat down and trained to not be trusting especially to brokerages. And at the risk of sounding like a Quiet Light commercial, it's just not the case with Quiet Light. And is it okay with you if I tell the story of how I found Quiet Light and why I just trust you guys implicitly? Chuck: I'm not sure of the story but please do tell it. Mike: I've had the affiliate manager and the performance company; the affiliate managed business overall since 2002. I started it with my brother and we built up the business. And in 2015 my brother passed away. He passed away fairly unexpectedly. And I was working at Google at the time and I had a decision to make; do I leave Google and come back to Affiliate Manager or do I sell the company? And so through some mutual contacts, I was referred over to Mark and Joe. This was before Chuck was there so I totally would've went to Chuck. But I went to Mark and Joe and just talked about the business and they asked me just great questions and they asked me for the P&L and they asked me what does the growth rate look like over the last few years. And we had been growing at like a 50%; no I'm sorry 100% rate year over year. We had doubled every year for the previous three years from '13, '14, and ‘15. And this is in January 2016 that I'm talking to Mark and Joe. And they even though this would have been a multimillion-dollar deal to sell that company; and I'm sure they do many, many multimillion-dollar deals which makes it easier to; I don't want to say turn it away but to give this advice. Chuck: So I will stop you there before I was with Quiet Light which was I've been about three years they weren't doing a lot of multimillion-dollar deals. So at that time a million, two, or three million dollars was a lot. It's just been in the last few years that we've really got up to where we're selling some of these really large businesses. Mike: So that makes it even more impressive, right? And I just remember this phone call with Mark and Joe so clearly where they said Mike when you sell this we'd love to be the brokerage for you. This is the wrong decision to sell right now. If you keep growing at this rate you will get what you want. Because of that conversation; I talked to other brokers who are ready to list my business or promising me the world and because of that especially now knowing that it would have been a very high multimillion-dollar deal for them and that they weren't doing as many at that time, for them to turn away that commission just gave me a level of trust with them that this is the company that I'm going to do business with. I am not comparing myself to Warren Buffett, Chuck. Not in the least. But one thing that he does that I love is he makes things easy and he; I don't want to say he takes shortcuts but he has built-in shortcuts. He can go from looking at a potential deal to executing a deal very quickly. And I don't know how he does it but my interpretation of how he does it is he identifies businesses and companies that he feels confident and he trusts. And so to me the implicit trust that I get from working with Quiet Light is a shortcut. To me, it gets me from here to this point. My comfort level right off the bat knowing that Quiet Light is not going to take a company that's shady or take a company that doesn't have solid P&L numbers or things of that effect, it's just such a comfort level. And if my comfort level was at a 90 pre these two deals because of what Mark and Joe did when they told me go continue to grow your business. It's at 100 now that I've actually purchased two companies and both of them are better than what I had expected. Now granted I'll take some credit for that that I've done the due diligence on it; I hired Centurica actually for both due diligences. We did the due diligence and we got into the company. Both of them feel; were over a year in on the first one, we're almost a year on the second one and both are solid. Both are growing. We just ran the numbers and after a little bit of a rocky start with the suit one because of some of the changes that we were making and that's what happens but we are now; November is our biggest month and we were up 30%. If you shift to include cyber Monday because everybody is obviously one of our biggest days. Chuck: How long have you owned that company? Mike: Since April of this year. So to go from there we beat our biggest day previously in the company not once, not twice, but three times by over 25%. So to beat your previous biggest day which was Black Friday; I'm sorry Cyber Monday last year, we beat it Black Friday this year, we beat it the Sunday after Black Friday this year, and we beat it again on Cyber Monday this year. So we literally doubled Black Friday. So it's been amazing. And again if my comfort level was a 90, it's 100 because of that. Like I'm not walking into a business that's a money pit or that has craters I didn't expect or potholes that I didn't expect. So I think that's just super important overall. Chuck: Awesome. So we're running a little long on this call, we've got a ton to talk about. So would you be interested in having this become a two-part segment where we'll end it here and then we'll keep going but we'll put that as a part two, to be continued? Mike: Yeah. But in case people are watching this on video just know that we cut it into two parts. I didn't wear the same suit on two different days. Chuck: We'll make a quick wardrobe change. Mike: Okay, I'll go change my jacket. Chuck: No. Mike: But that's fine. Yes, I'm happy to do that. Chuck: Alright. So, everybody, Mike Nuñez thank you for the interview today. And for everybody watching stay tuned. Next, we will discuss some of the lessons you've learned and what you're looking for when you purchase a business. So, for now, bye everybody and thank you, Mike, for joining us. Mike: Thanks for having me. Links and Resources: Affiliate Manager

Today we welcome Chuck (iii) Mullins, we are talking with him about his background, experience, his algorithm knowledge, ask him our rapid-fire questions, and pick his brain about the business. Chuck built his first profitable website back in 1996 when he was an impressionable 18 years old. He studied computer software engineering in college, which taught him the skills to analyze search results and implement strategies. Throughout his career of developing, managing, consulting, and investing in internet-based companies, Chuck has developed a keen ability to spot opportunities and develop strategies that lead to growth and profitability. Episode Highlights: Chuck's background, entrepreneurial experience, and success stories Web-based business ups-and-downs The difference in long-term cash flow from web-based businesses and get-rich-quick cash businesses Chuck's favorite web niches Chuck's favorite audience member (who is also a buyer) Websites that are more/less desirable The importance of knowing your Profit and Loss Biggest mistake buyers can make Best practices for buyers and sellers The importance of understanding the business and doing your research Quiet Light's vision and how we can help you Transcription: Mark: Joe, one of my favorite things about working with team Quiet Light is some of the camaraderie that we have with each other. The fact that we get to tease each other a little bit, egg each other on, but also help each other out; talk about deals, collaborate on our transactions because everybody at Quiet Light has so much entrepreneurial experience that it's like having this built in board of advisors for every single thing that we do. And one thing I think you and I need to do a better job of; I know we've had each of the advisors on Quiet Light at the Quiet Light Podcast. I think we need to bring them on a bit more so that others can enjoy some of the experience that they have. You had Chuck on recently and grilled him a little bit in this episode. Joe: I did. I want people to get to know Chuck for the fun experienced entrepreneur that he is. And so I mixed it up a little bit. I had some fun with him we did some rapid-fire questions. I intentionally; just let me get this upfront and out there for the audience. I intentionally mispronounced somebody's name. I butchered it intentionally. Again I did it seven or eight episodes ago and I got some email saying I think the person you're trying to find is so and so. I did it again. Mark: Same person? Joe: Same person; yeah, if he's listening. Mark: He needs to start listening to the podcast especially my episodes because frankly, I've got a leg up on you. Joe: You have overtaken me for the most popular episode on the Quiet Light Podcast. I will overcome that because I've got some great ones planned coming in here soon. Chuck is a fascinating individual. I've known Chuck for a long time and he's really, really smart when it comes to his entrepreneurial acumen. It's almost annoying to be honest because with a model that we have at Quiet Light Brokerage; we don't have employees, right? No one's an employee of Quiet Light Brokerage. We have a lot of entrepreneurs who work together in sort of a collective group. Well, one of the benefits to that is all the advice and feedback I'm able to get from people. And one of the most annoying things is all the feedback and advice I get from everyone. And sometimes; Chuck especially, Chuck is so thorough. What's the term he gives to himself? Whatever it is he just hyper focuses on the most minute little detail and I fear asking questions sometimes because of the level of detail that he's going to give to me in terms of what I have to fix and correct in a document that I'm creating. Mark: But at the end of the day even though sometimes it can be overwhelming like come on you think I'm doing everything wrong evidently because I keep getting his feedback, it's always on point. And I don't think I've ever received feedback from them where I look at it and say this is not worth considering or looking at; so a smart, smart guy. I'm looking forward to it. What are some of the things that you discussed in this episode? Joe: Well we talked about some of; he's got almost three years brokering now and over 20 years as an entrepreneur now. And he talked about some of his experiences; the pros and cons of A. being an entrepreneur, some of the things that he's found that certain buyers do better than anyone else, and how he wants new buyers to adopt that style, and then the biggest mistakes that someone's selling their business can make as well. And it's fascinating as I just said he's got 20 plus years as an entrepreneur. I'm in the same boat. You're in the same boat. So collectively the team at Quiet Light I'd say what 250 years of entrepreneurial experience that we share with our team with our clients and I think it's fascinating. Chuck is just the tip of the iceberg here in terms of the experience. So it's exciting to share this with him and we had a lot of fun. So that's the key to this one. Mark: Fantastic, well let's get to it. Joe: Hey folks it's Joe Valley from Quiet Light Brokerage on the Quiet Light Podcast. And today we have the most special guest. His name is Chucky. Now that's not what we call him. It's Chuck. I use his personal email address. I'm not going to tell you at what you can all haul in the mail anyway. You know his e-mail address its Chuck@QuietLightBrokerage. Chuck Mullins, welcome back to the Quiet Light Podcast. Chuck: Thank you, sir. Thank you. For any that's specific it's actually Charles Clifford Mullins III. That's my D-I-I-I. Joe: You know I am from New England I can't talk with a British accent; it's something about us. Chuck: Well I can't either. Joe: Alright. Well listen you know the routine. Normally on the podcast we ask people to give their own background; who they are, what they're all about so that we're not sounding like we're reading from a script which we don't. We wing these things. You know that. Our audience knows that. But before we get into that I want to ask you a series of rapid-fire questions; the first one so that people understand and establish your experience here at Quiet Light Brokerage, how long have you been brokering at Quiet Light Brokerage? Chuck: About two and a half; almost three years. Joe: Almost three years. Okay. So let's start with…I've got a total of six questions. Number one; and you've got to give me a quick answer. Number one, who's your favorite broker? Chuck: Joe Valley. Joe: Good, good, good. Alright, if you were stranded on an island with me, Brad Wayland, and Jason Yellowitz and a rash floated by and they would only carry three of us; there's four altogether, who would you leave behind and why? Chuck: Jason Yellowitz, because he would be able to burn his stacks of cash to stay warm. Joe: And he carries it with him, is that what you're saying? Chuck: Inaudible[00:06:25.8] Joe: Jason I know you all listen to the podcast so everybody make fun of Jason. That's your job here. Alright, this is a really important question. Who is the better podcast me or Andy Youderainan; I mean in Andrew Youderian? Chuck: I would have to go with Mark. Joe: You are… Chuck: Hello? Isn't it you that people come up to the Booze and ask for or is it Mark that they come up and ask for? Joe: That's me. It's me. Mark doesn't go to Booze. Alright, sid you know Walker Diabel wrote a book; and a best seller book? Chuck: Have you heard about the second book that he wrote? Joe: No. He wrote a second book? Chuck: Yes. If you go to WalkerDiebel.guru you can check out the second one that hasn't been released yet. Joe: Okay, Alright. So this is a tough question. This is not a trick question. I want to know if you can answer this one. What's the name of Walker's book? Chuck: Buy Then Build. Joe: You got it. Okay. Alright. Chuck: How can you not get it? I've heard it at every conversation. Every conference I go to there's these three books that are just floating around that conference and I'm like wait a second how did that get there? Joe: And it's the bottom of every one of his e-mail signatures. One of these days you're going to dig way back into the archives when he was actually an actor and find a clip and we're going to change his email signature line somehow some way. Alright, so as you know historically Quiet Light Brokerage does not recruit brokers. I have conversations three or four times a week these days with people who want to join the team. But we, for the most part, don't recruit. We have as you know or Mark has as you know recruited a few starting with Amanda back in the day. She was the first. And I think Brad was also recruited. And yourself was also recruited. Of all of the brokers that Mark recruited; last question by the way, what was his best decision? Chuck: Probably Brad. He's been killing it man. Joe: Man and give yourself some credit Chuck. Come on. Anybody but you would probably be the politically correct answer but essentially you just threw Amanda under the bus. But fortunately Amanda doesn't really listen to our own podcast either. Alright, enough of this nonsense; let's talk about you and your experience. I know all about you but for the audience members, Chuck has been on the podcast before Mark had him on when he first joined the team two and a half years ago, three years ago. And the focus of that podcast was a tiny little bit about Chuck but mostly about Chuck's due diligence experience. And I think you had a list of was it 25 due diligence tools? Chuck: Who can remember? Joe: Yeah, a lot. And it's all; if you Google Quiet Light Podcast, Chuck Mullins, due diligence you'll find it. It'd be at the top of the Google search engine and it's great stuff. And I learned a lot when I did it. But I would say I refer most people out for due diligence; buyers that is to our friend Chris Yates at Centurica. They do a great job. Well, let's talk a little bit about who you are and your life experience and a little bit of your brokering experience now that you're three years into Quiet Light. So who the heck are you? Tell us about your entrepreneurial experience. I know that you started way back when you were in college, right? Chuck: Yeah. I graduated high school in ‘96 and I always wanted a computer but we couldn't afford one. So finally for college I needed a computer so I got a computer and started a free website on it's like Angel Fire or Tripod or one of these things way back in '96. And I remember just putting up some content and that is an online library for college students. And I remember somebody offered me like 10 bucks at some point to put a link on my website. I'm like $10 awesome, I'm making money and then somebody offers me like a hundred bucks and I'm like what $100? So then I was; this is before I even had a domain so it was like AngelFire/blahblahblah. I started thinking about okay we'll buy a domain and back then they were like thirty-five bucks. I was talking to my mom and I'm like mom I'd buy a domain and she's like you're crazy you shouldn't buy you know like you're just wasting your money and why are you spending all this time in front of the computer and then it just started growing and then somebody offered me a thousand bucks. And before you know it I was making about sixteen grand a month off of advertising back in the ‘90s. Joe: In college, right? Chuck: In college; yeah, and so I was just… Joe: That's a lot of Jägermeister. Chuck: And the Internet bubble ended up bursting in like the 2000, 2001 and all that money like dried up overnight. So I was like okay now what? So I had to figure out how to pivot and myself and two other guys; we had different businesses. We all pooled together and started a membership site. The first month with our membership site we made like 60 grand. It was just like mind-blowing like oh my God we're in college. I didn't have keggers I had like full bottle; like full bar parties. Joe: Everybody wanted to be your friend, right? Chuck: It was fun and we'd stay at like the Ritz Carlton for Mardi Gras and like just do crazy things. We rented like a ski chalet; it was like a 15 bedroom house on the slopes and I forget where it was bit we then brought all of like; we had affiliates at the time, all our affiliates to come and ski with us and so we had a great time. And at some point, I was making a lot of money and I didn't really know what to do with it all. I was definitely wasting my fair share of it. Actually kind of going back, my mom, the whole thing with her telling me I shouldn't start the business and this and that in 2003 I think it was about my mom and sister cars for Christmas. Joe: I wrote that down when you said it because I knew that. You told me the story about Christmas and your mom went outside and there was a big ribbon on a brand new car. I guess she's happy you bought that domain name, after all, isn't she? Chuck: Yeah. Yeah for sure and I do not usually tell that story so maybe we'll have to edit that out. Joe: No. No editing. Tell the story. Chuck: I made two giant boxes and I had my mom like a box of some keys and she sees them and it had Lincoln in it which I had a navigator at the time and she's like oh it's a scavenger hunt he put his keys in here and she walks outside and sees this giant box and just like; my mom doesn't curse and she goes oh shit and she runs outside gets ready to tear into the box. And I said wait, mom, hold on hold on there's a card on there you've taught me better; open the card. And so she opens it and it says to my sister and my mom is like inaudible[00:12:57.1] my mom's like…well my sister is like to me? And again I wiggle the keys in front of my sister's face and she's like what?! So she runs and dives in and my mom looks at me like what this like WTF and I'm like you're over there. Then she starts walking and then sees it like buried on the other side of the house in a big box and like runs over and dives in. We're in Georgia at that time at a family house and it was cold and she didn't have shoes on. It was a great time. I've got the video. One day I'll have to share with somebody but I don't know that I want to share it. Joe: What a great experience and a great thing to do for your mother and your sister did. Did your mother get the nicer car or was it equal to both? Chuck: I was actually going to buy them the exact same car and then I was talking to my sister trying to like make sure that it was the kind of she would want and I said well what do you think Mom would like? And she said well my favorite car is a Sequoia and I ended up; my mom a Lincoln Aviator and my mom's Sequoia. They're about the same price. I think my sister was a little more but I did get some grief about that. Also the night before or a couple of nights before we went to Walmart and I bought every single piece of cheesy add on part you could get and added it to the car. So I got like a fuzzy steering wheel cover, dice, a little light-up things that go on the rims, and just totally like made the car look as ridiculous as possible and told them in order to get it they'd have to drive it with that stuff on it. Joe: That's hilarious. So for anybody that's listening instead of watching if you look at my chin and Chuck's chin you'll see some gray; there're probably a little more on mine than his of course. His is more his cheek mine's dead on center of my chin that's because of age and life experience. So you had some amazing times Chuck out of college making more money in a month than most people in this country do in a year; all web-based business experience. It's not always wonderful though. Chuck: No, absolutely not. Yeah, entrepreneurship is ups and downs. We've gotten hit by Google so many times I couldn't even tell you. And most of them were just algorithmic. But I have on one of my big businesses, we had about 12 that were all doing the same thing and one of my partners had used the same email address in our Webmaster Tools account and somebody from the spam team I guess noticed and went in and just manually penalized all of our businesses. I think except for two because those were the only two that didn't have those email addresses. And just overnight it's like poof gone and it's just like oh it's heartbreaking. At least when it's the algorithmic type of penalties it's easy to kind of; well maybe not easy but you're going to recover from that. The manual penalties, we hired somebody who used to work in the spam team. They told us what to do. We did it. We just haven't been able to recover from that on those other sites. Joe: Yeah I know it's always hard. Google algorithm updates I think are getting a little better, a little easier to handle and manage I think ultimately. I always used to say this actually if you do the right thing the way Google tells you to do it, ultimately it's not going to hurt you; the algorithm updates. And I guarantee there are people out there shaking their head no right now because a good friend of mine, he built a great business, a great, great content site, and sold it and there was a an update recently. And the buyer, another great entrepreneur bought it and did have some negative impact. What they both know is that sometimes when Google casts a wide net some of the wrong sites get caught up in it and over time that does get corrected but it does sting initially, doesn't it? Chuck: Yeah. And I will say like the reason we got caught up in a lot of the updates wasn't because we were doing the things that Google tells you to do. We were gaining the system and we deservedly got caught for doing those things and we would adjust our technique and then regain. So like one of our sites had like 100,000 pieces of unique content that we were in Google index for like 30 million pages. Joe: Wow. Chuck: So like how does one do that? Joe: How does one do that? Good Lord. Chuck: Trickery. Joe: Well the grey in your chin has matured you to the point that I think you're beyond the trickery because you look at the long term cash flow and benefits of owning an online business now it's not just a quick cash anymore. At least that's the way I look at it; you too? Chuck: Yeah, absolutely. And you're talking about like the algorithm updates and I feel like there's been so many and that most of the really garbage sites have probably gotten taken out by now. I feel like, and maybe I'm wrong but now it's more of like just tweaking the knobs a little bit. So unless you're in one of these like fringe business models I tend to believe and I could be 100% wrong but I tend to believe that most of the major algorithm updates have been already done and then now they're going after I guess like medical websites and things like that. Joe: Yeah. The updates are far further I'm sure in between and in many cases not as severe. Alright so I'm going to throw a question at you. I don't know if I told you this story or not or if you've heard it. Some of the audience members might have heard it so I'm going to just test your algorithm update knowledge. And if you answer within two seconds then I know you heard the story. So I bought a business, I sold my business in November 2010; yada, yada, yada. People have heard this a million times, or at least tens of hundreds of thousands of times if they've listened to every episode and keep downloading everything. No we haven't done 100,000 episodes that's totally inaccurate. I can't do math by the way apparently. Alright so I bought a content site. I sold a great site. The content was amazing. And then I bought a piece of junk. I had 42 amazing days. I bought it March 1st, 2012. I had maybe 3 or 4 keywords on the first page of Google and then boom they fell to the bottom of page 1 and then page 2 and they were gone and I lost over a quarter-million dollars in the course of twelve months. What happened? What algorithm update was that? It was; again I bought it March 1st, 2012; I had forty-two amazing days. Chuck: Panda. Penguin. Joe: Penguin. Alright, you're close. We're going to have to throw that quiz out there. Everybody in the audience wouldn't throw that quiz out there for a price. Chuck's wearing a beautiful Quiet Like Brokerage…is that a polo shirt? Chuck: Yeah. Joe: We need to get some of those packaged up and give away prizes for that kind of stuff. Alright let's jump on to your Quiet Light Brokerage life; your entrepreneurial life, amazing ups and downs, a lot of great ups and you did some good things for family and friends. The downs, we learn from them and we try to take those lessons and make sure that we are really bringing great listings to market so the buyers are making good safe investments and the sellers of those investments can move on with peace of mind to their next adventures whether that's another business or retirement. In your history of transactions here at Quiet Light, is there any particular niche that you gravitate towards and enjoy more than another because as you said a ton of content and affiliate experience, but I think some of your larger deals have been physical product e-commerce sites. But is there anything that stands out for you? Chuck: Yeah I mean so my heart is in like membership sites. I love recurring revenue. I think everybody does and that's why the multiples are higher because of that recurring revenue and the predictability. So I would say that that's kind of where I'd like to be but my biggest sales have been around physical products inaudible[00:20:53.3] an outdoor sporting equipment one that was great. One that I really love that I sold like six months ago was a company that did custom-tailored suits. That thing it's like awesome. Who doesn't want to say they have a business that sells custom-tailored suits? Like it's just; I think it's got the cool factor. Joe: That's the amazing thing about what you do and what we do at Quiet Light is that we come to this role with a lifetime of experience that; I was talking with Walker and Brad about this recently that we didn't know it but all of our entrepreneurial life was preparing us for this role. And now we get to experience so many cool different business models. You come to this role with a ton of membership experience but custom-tailored suits and you're like that's the coolest thing. Who doesn't want to say they own a custom-tailored suit business? I need to buy a custom-tailored suit. I know who bought it and I can reach out to him. I know who he is too. Speaking of that I do want to ask a random question although its timing is not very random and you have to answer this. There's only one answer to this. This buyer listens to the podcast and he comments and he tells us about us sometimes when he's riding his bike. So do you have a favorite audience member that also happens to be a buyer? Yes or no? You have to say yes and you have to say his name now because he's a… Chuck: Sure. Mike Nuñez. Joe: There you go; Mike Nuñez, this is just a shout out to you. Thanks for listening Mike. Chuck: Well I'll tell you it shouldn't just be a shout out to him. If anybody wants to know how to be a good buyer and how to buy businesses they should talk to Mike Nuñez because he is 100% the absolute best buyer I have. And not like just in a sense of like the actual acquisition of the company. When he gets on a phone call and talks to the sellers he makes them feel like they are the only person in the world; the most important person like he's just so smooth and he's not doing it as like a ploy or a gimmick. He's just a nice guy and he really appreciates these people and the businesses they've created. And it's just he's really good on a call. Joe: It's the unknown secret that we tell all the time to buyers. Look, when it's a great business it's a great opportunity. There are going to be multiple buyers. And it's not always the most money or the most cash that gets the letter of intent. In some cases, it's the buyer that the seller likes the most. And being likable on those conference calls is critically important. Mike does it very well. Chuck: And one of my businesses; actually I think two of them that Mike purchased, the sellers actually said like I want to sell to him. Make him buy this. It doesn't matter; I mean within reason, right? The price; but they were willing to take less than somebody else because they liked him so much. Joe: Oh boy. Now if Mike's listening and he paid full price now he's going to be like inaudible[00:23:49.1]. Chuck: That is the problem because of course I did make him pay more than the other people but they were willing to take less. And what's funny is one of my sellers told him as much oh like I would have taken less from you and I'm like don't say that to him. Joe: In his heart, he was willing to take less but his checkbook and his head was willing to take the highest bidder as long as it was Mike Nunez. That's the key. In your experience both as an entrepreneur and as an adviser here at Quiet Light you've seen a lot of businesses that have come up for first they reach out to us for a valuation, they start thinking about an exit sometimes the day before they want to exit, sometimes months or a year or so in advance. What do you see being the biggest thing; most consistent thing that those particular entrepreneurs do wrong time and time again that there's just if there's one thing you could just like shout into the microphone right now to everyone listening even though some of them are doing it right, what are the majority of folks not doing that that you want them to do to bring more value to their business? Chuck: Silence question. Joe: Yeah it was a long one. I kept rambling on in my sentences because I could see you thinking. Chuck: Yeah. Joe: Maybe I should have asked a little more. Chuck: What's weird about at Quiet Light is we actually get so many great businesses to sell. People bring us quality things. So what are some of the bad things people do? Joe: Let me just get some stats behind that though; because it's true what we bring to market, it's great stuff. But the reality is Chuck if you look at my numbers I've closed 105, 106 transactions in seven years. People say well that's not very many but in order to close those transactions; I've ballparked the math and I've talked to 2,500 entrepreneurs. That's 2,500 valuation calls. Your stats are similar. What is that consistent theme that if you could speak to somebody that someday may sell their business what should they be doing? Chuck: Sure. So when we talk about like specific like product-level things like when people are just selling random shots keys that aren't unique in any way; those are really difficult to sell. When you have an actual unique product that's got some sort of a brand to it that's not easily knock off-able that there's a moat around it like that makes it so much more desirable to people and so much more valuable. One of the things I also see probably is just P & L's; having clean P & L's. Oftentimes people's profit and loss statements are just a complete mess. They'll lump, they want to save; I was just thinking about a specific one, but you see people are just lumping things in because they know they had a cost but they don't really know when it was or where it was and they just kind of guesstimate things and put them in the wrong ones. So then you'll see like really lumpy P & L's. And we always try to work with people to flatten those out and figure out where the real costs are. So that often takes a lot of time to just figure out what the true P & L is on a business. And for doing add backs; what's a real add back? We fight with people a lot on what's a real add back versus something they think they should be adding back. Joe: Yeah I want to just step in and shout out that there's no question I think that preparing your business for sale is the number one thing that people don't do. They decide to sell as I say instead of planning to sell. That means they work their tail off. They launch this business. They work like crazy against all odds. They succeed. And it's producing solid revenue and profit for them. And they just burn the candle at both ends and then the candle starts to burn out. And they're emotionally tired, they're frustrated, they're exhausted, and they wake up one morning I'm just not into this. I'm going to sell. I didn't know I could sell but it just occurred to me. I'm done. I'm calling Chuck Mullins. And at that point because they're tired; because they're emotionally worn out they need to sell because trends will go down. They won't do the things that they need to do to keep the business growing and strong and in great shape for somebody else to take over. And so at that point you get those P & L's and you're like yeah Excel is not really accounting software. Ideally Quick Books and Xero or one of the other so that we can run a historical P & L and do year over year trend analysis and look at the metrics. All that is really hard and then there's the commingling. So I'm going to just mention a podcast; not ours, somebody else's. EcomCrewPodcast247. Chuck as you know I sold Mike Jackness' business ColorIt last spring. And Mike is a bright guy. Mike knew exactly what to do as most people in this audience do. They know what to do. And the mindset that Mike had was simply I'll get to it someday. What happens is you end up chasing too many rabbits and that someday comes when you get exhausted and in his case, he had four brands under one LLC and three of them were really not sellable at the time that we decide to list the business. So what does that do? You've got four brands all in one LLC, tax returns commingled, and you're only selling one brand. What does that eliminate? Chuck: SBA financing. Joe: SBA financing; exactly. Is it required to get an SBA loan? No it's not to sell a business; absolutely not. We sold multimillion-dollar businesses without an SBA loan. But what it does do is it casts a broader net; buyers. And even some of those buyers; I've had it. Have you had buyers that have more than enough money to stroke a check for a multi-million dollar business but they use SBA? Chuck: Absolutely why not leverage if you can? Joe: Yeah, so that's I'd say number one. I'm in total agreement on the documentation. We always talk about that the risk, growth, transferability, and documentation; gets your numbers right, get those P & L's in great shape and it's going to help you learn about your business and set goals and then that passion may get reignited and you may do more in the business and grow it and have a bigger exit someday down the road. It's not that I don't love it when somebody calls me and says I'd like a valuation and part of that is okay, what's your timeframe, when are you ready to sell, right now. Not that I don't mind that; I love that if everything's in great shape. It's just tougher to sell it when it's not. They get a lower value, right? Chuck: Yup, absolutely. Having those four pillars and the clean books it makes a big difference. Joe: It really does. I think I'm in total agreement. Buyers or sellers of businesses, get your documents in great shape. The best way to do that, just call, email inquiries@QuietLightBrokerage.com, Chuck@QuietLightBrokerage.com. Reach out. It's a service that we provide. I mean what do we do Chuck? We help, help, help, and then keep helping, right? Chuck: Build value. Joe: Build the value. It's my; I've got a mentor that I talked to long and hard about all my business opportunities and in this particular one as we chatted about the model and what we do here at Quiet Light he's like well it just sounds like you're giving away all your knowledge for free in hopes that maybe they'll work with you. And I' like that's exactly right. We help first and we're entrepreneurs so there are times that we wish we got good advice and we were too young to listen or there was nobody around to talk to about it. And now we share that when it comes to business values and planning an exit. The number one thing you can do is just reach out to somebody. It's free. Talk to Chuck, he's got a ton of experience. Chuck: I'll tell you kind of in my entrepreneurial days if I wasn't going to be an entrepreneur I always wanted to be a consultant and help other people. And I never had like the actual desire to go out and build a portfolio and charge people to help them grow their business. But like you said I've been do this since '96. I've met so many businesses; a lot of focus on optimization and SEO and just so many things. And one of the things I actually like about is giving unsolicited advice. So when I'm on all these valuation calls I'm constantly asking people like oh have you tried this, have you thought about this? So even if they're not ready to sell I'm often giving people advice on how to increase their business. And even when I do have listings like I think of one and particularly like I give him so many ideas and then he did those and the business just kept growing. That actually came to bite me because the business grew so much that we ended up pulling it off the market after getting multiple full-price offers because it just had grown so much and he wanted to just wait a little bit and we're going to actually getting ready to relist that here soon. Joe: It's a good problem, right? I mean I've been in situations that you say it bit you but ultimately this is a long term play for us; it's building relationships and that person respects and appreciates you obviously because he's coming back for some of your entrepreneurial life experience and it's benefited them financially. It's going to grow the business and ultimately they're going to get a bigger value and tell people about what you did. So that was a little bit more about the sellers and the things that they can do and then number one I think we both agree, plan that exit; call somebody, e-mail somebody, get a valuation. It's not going to hurt. What about buyers; biggest mistakes that buyers can make? Chuck: Disrespecting somebody's business. So getting on a call and like; I'm trying to think of a of a PC term that I could use that's not a profanity, just talking smack about somebody's business, trying to negotiate them down in price, and like trash-talking the business. That doesn't work. At least not at this size but maybe it works when you're dealing with a couple hundred million dollar business or something. I don't know. But at these levels, people care about their businesses at least the ones we sell. Inaudible[00:33:38.9] and when you talk smack like… Joe: It's personal even at the 15 to 20 million mark. Mark just closed one just under 15 million. It's owned by an individual. When you're talking about a hundred million, yes somebody is up there at the top like their shareholders and the CEOs and COOs and all that and big-time attorneys are in there negotiating. It's not you're talking to the guy across the table that actually built it and owns it for the most part, right? So he cares about it. Chuck: He worries about it like he's had the baby. I mean you wouldn't believe how many people I've talked to; sellers that cry on the phone about their business like it happens a lot. People are deeply invested emotionally in their business. When somebody comes in and disrespects it for no reason other than they're trying to negotiate, it doesn't go well. You need to be nice. That's what Mike does so well. And I want to keep talking about Mike. Well like… Joe: Should we talk about Walker again? Chuck: He's about people and he's nice. Joe: Let's talk about Walker again then. Actually you're absolutely right. I remember being at the Rhodium Weekend Conference before you were a member of the team here at Quiet Light. Now he's up presenting and talking and I could swear in that environment and I used the word that begins with an A and ends with an E; figure it out, folks. Everybody's got one. And what's the secret to being a great buyer? And I said don't be one; as simple as that. I can see you out there in the audience shaking your head up and down. And that's exactly right. Mike is very nice, very kind. When I sold my business I had people that were well I remember one, in particular, ripping my business to shreds on a conference call; initial call and I'm like why am I even talking to this guy. I'm not selling it to him even if he gives me an offer over asking. And then, strangely enough, the last call, the person that ended up buying my business first thing he said is thanks for creating such a great site. Your products have helped people exactly like me. By the way I took stuff like this and I ran the Boston Marathon actually the Chicago Marathon last month and it's because of products like yours and I said cool. It was actually a really short call; 20-minute call. I didn't ask any great questions I had going on. That was really nice but I don't see he's buying my business and he almost; he bought it almost full price offer. Chuck: I'll tell you what you just mentioned something that is often overlooked. When you get on these calls don't just wing it; do some research, educate yourself before the call, and ask the right questions. It's so important. So many times I get on a call and the seller or the buyer doesn't ask any decent questions and the seller just writes them off and says let's not take any more calls from that person. They weren't serious. So make sure that you understand the business and you're asking good questions that a good buyer would ask, right? Joe: Yeah. They don't have to be the most intelligent questions the seller has ever heard but that you've done your research and you care. I mean yeah Chuck you put there together a great package and all the great questions are in there. They just have to dig into them and digest it a little bit and ask the same question in their voice and see if you get the same or similar answer from the client on it. I think that's great. I think you're absolutely right. Too many times there has been a few buyers that they're not prepared for. You can hear them walking down the street getting in the car and it just feels like a complete and utter waste of everyone's time including the person who's making the call and asking the questions. Okay, is there anything else; before we wrap up is there anything else you'd like to say about Walker Diebel? Chuck: Visit WalkerDiebel.guru to check out his new book that's coming out in a couple of months. Joe: Let's do this; actually everybody do is too. Go to IMDB and look up Walker Diebel the actor and watch some of the movies he's been in. Add a review, let's see if we can boost that one-star rating up to one and a half. Chuck: Inaudible[00:37:37.6] tomatoes maybe. Joe: Alright Chuck, you're a good man. I appreciate you coming on. We'll wrap it up here with time. Any last thoughts for anybody out there thinking about selling their business or buying one; any last pearls of wisdom and I know I didn't prepare you but any last-minute pearls of wisdom? Chuck: Yeah. I would just say that reach out early. We're not here to be high pressure as far as trying to sign you to sell your business. We're here to lead with value. We're going to offer some hopefully some wisdom that's going to help you sell that business in the future. So don't think that like oh I don't want to reach out because I'm not going to sell it for six months or a year. Talk to us now. Let us help you get the business in shape to sell it later. Joe: Great advice. That's Chuck Mullins folks. We will be back in the next podcast. See you soon. Thanks, Chuck. Chuck: Bye-bye. Thanks.   Links and Resources: Chuck Mullins Chuck's LinkedIn Walker Deibel's IMDB

Sponsors: KendoUI Sentry use the code "devchat" for $100 credit Clubhouse Panel: Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ed Thomson In this episode, the Charles speaks with Ed Thomson who is a Program Manager at Azure through Microsoft, Developer, and Open Source Maintainer. Ed and Chuck discuss in full detail about Azure DevOps! Check out today’s episode to hear its new features and other exciting news! Show Topics: 0:59 – Live at Microsoft Ignite 1:03 – Ed: Hi! I am a Program Manager at Azure. 1:28 – Rewind 2 episodes to hear more about Azure DevOps! 1:51 – Ed: One of the moves from Pipelines to DevOps – they could still adopt Pipelines. Now that they are separate services – it’s great. 2:38 – Chuck talks about features he does and doesn’t use. 2:54 – Ed. 3:00 – Chuck: Repos and Pipelines. I am going to dive right in. Let’s talk about Repos. Microsoft just acquired GitHub. 3:18 – Ed: Technically we have not officially acquired GitHub. 3:34 – Chuck: It’s not done. It’s the end of September now. 3:55 – Ed: They will remain the same thing for a while. GitHub is the home for open source. Repos – we use it in Microsoft. Repositories are huge. There are 4,000 engineers working in these repositories. Everyone works in his or her own little area, and you have to work together. You have to do all this engineering to get there. We bit a tool and it basically if you run clone... Ed continues to talk about this topic. He is talking about One Drive and these repositories. 6:28 – Ed: We aren’t going to be mixing and matching. I used to work through GitHub. It’s exciting to see those people work close to me. 6:54 – Chuck. 6:59 – Ed: It has come a long way. 7:07 – Chuck: Beyond the FSF are we talking about other features or? 7:21 – Ed: We have unique features. We have branch policies. You can require that people do pole request. You have to use pole request and your CI has to pass and things like that. I think there is a lot of richness in our auditing. We have enterprise focus. At its core it still is Git. We can all interoperate. 8:17 – Chuck. 8:37 – Ed: You just can’t set it up with Apache. You have to figure it out. 8:51 – Chuck: The method of pushing and pulling. 9:06 – Chuck: You can try DevOps for free up to 5 users and unlimited private repos. People are interested in this because GitHub makes you pay for that. 9:38 – Ed and Chuck continue to talk. 9:50 – Ed: Pipelines is the most interesting thing we are working on. We have revamped the entire experience. Build and release. It’s easy to get started. We have a visual designer. Super helpful – super straightforward. Releases once your code is built – get it out to production say for example Azure. It’s the important thing to get your code out there. 10:55 – Chuck: How can someone start with this? 11:00 – Ed: Depends on where your repository is. It will look at your code. “Oh, I know what that is, I know how to build that!” Maybe everyone isn’t doing everything with JavaScript. If you are using DotNet then it will know. 12:05 – Chuck: What if I am using both a backend and a frontend? 12:11 – Ed: One repository? That’s when you will have to do a little hand packing on the... There are different opportunities there. If you have a bash script that does it for you. If not, then you can orchestrate it. Reduce the time it takes. If it’s an open source project; there’s 2 – what are you going to do with the other 8? You’d be surprised – people try to sneak that in there. 13:30 – Chuck: It seems like continuous integration isn’t a whole lot complicated. 13:39 – Ed: I am a simple guy that’s how I do it. You can do advanced stuff, though. The Cake Build system – they are doing some crazy things. We have got Windows, Lennox, and others. Are you building for Raspberries Pies, then okay, do this... It’s not just running a script. 15:00 – Chuck: People do get pretty complicated if they want. It can get complicated. Who knows? 15:26 – Chuck:  How much work do you have to do to set-up a Pipeline like that? 15:37 – Ed answers the question in detail. 16:03 – Chuck asks a question. 16:12 – Ed: Now this is where it gets contentious. If one fails... Our default task out of the box... 16:56 – Chuck: If you want 2 steps you can (like me who is crazy). 17:05 – Ed: Yes, I want to see if it failed. 17:17 – Chuck: Dude, writing code is hard. Once you have it built and tested – continuous deployment. 17:33 – Ed: It’s very easy. It’s super straightforward, it doesn’t have to be Azure (although I hope it is!). Ed continues this conversation. 18:43 – Chuck: And it just pulls it? 18:49 – Ed: Don’t poke holes into your firewall. We do give you a lot of flexibility 19:04 – Chuck: VPN credentials? 19:10 – Ed: Just run the... 19:25 – Chuck comments. 19:36 – Ed: ...Take that Zip... 20:02 – Ed: Once the planets are finely aligned then...it will just pull from it. 20:25 – Chuck: I host my stuff on Digital Ocean. 20:46 – Ed: It’s been awhile since I played with... 20:55 – Chuck. 20:59 – Ed and Chuck go back and forth with different situations and hypothetical situations. 21:10 – Ed: What is Phoenix? 21:20 – Chuck explains it. 21:25 – Ed: Here is what we probably don’t have is a lot of ERLANG support. 22:41 – Advertisement. 23:31 – Chuck: Let’s just say it’s a possibility. We took the strip down node and... 23:49 – Ed: I think it’s going to happen. 23:55 – Ed: Exactly. 24:02 – Chuck: Testing against Azure services. So, it’s one thing to run on my machine but it’s another thing when other things connect nicely with an Azure set-up. Does it connect natively once it’s in the Azure cloud? 24:35 – Ed: It should, but there are so many services, so I don’t want to say that everything is identical. We will say yes with an asterisk. 25:07 – Chuck: With continuous deployment... 25:41 – Ed: As an example: I have a CD Pipeline for my website. Every time I merge into master... Ed continues this hypothetical situation with full details. Check it out! 27:03 – Chuck: You probably can do just about anything – deploy by Tweet! 27:15 – Ed: You can stop the deployment if people on Twitter start complaining. 27:40 – Chuck: That is awesome! IF it is something you care about – and if it’s worth the time – then why not? If you don’t have to think about it then great. I have mentioned this before: Am I solving interesting problems? What projects do I want to work on? What kinds of contributions do I really want to contribute to open source? That’s the thing – if you have all these tools that are set-up then your process, how do you work on what, and remove the pain points then you can just write code so people can use! That’s the power of this – because it catches the bug before I have to catch it – then that saves me time. 30:08 – Ed: That’s the dream of computers is that the computers are supposed to make OUR lives easier. IF we can do that and catch those bugs before you catch it then you are saving time. Finding bugs as quickly as possible it avoids downtime and messy deployments. 31:03 – Chuck: Then you can use time for coding style and other things. I can take mental shortcuts. 31:37 – Ed: The other thing you can do is avoiding security problems. If a static code analysis tool catches an integer overflow then... 32:30 – Chuck adds his comments. Chuck: You can set your policy to block it or ignore it. Then you are running these tools to run security. There are third-party tools that do security analysis on your code. Do you integrate with those? 33:00 – Ed: Yep. My favorite is WhiteSource. It knows all of the open source and third-party tools. It can scan your code and... 34:05 – Chuck: It works with a lot of languages. 34:14 – Ed. 34:25 – Chuck: A lot of JavaScript developers are getting into mobile development, like Ionic, and others. You have all these systems out there for different stages for writing for mobile. Android, windows Phone, Blackberry... 35:04 – Ed: Let’s throw out Blackberry builds. We will ignore it. Mac OS dies a fine job. That’s why we have all of those. 35:29 – Chuck: But I want to run my tests, too! 35:36 – Ed: I really like to use App Center. It is ultimately incredible to see all the tests you can run. 36:29 – Chuck: The deployment is different, though, right? 36:40 – Ed: I have a friend who clicks a button in... Azure DevOps. 37:00 – Chuck: I like to remind people that this isn’t a new product. 37:15 – Ed: Yes, Azure DevOps. 37:24 – Chuck: Any new features that are coming out? 37:27 – Ed: We took a little break, but... 37:47 – Ed: We will pick back up once Ignite is over. We have a timeline on our website when we expect to launch some new features, and some are secret, so keep checking out the website. 39:07 – Chuck: What is the interplay between Azure DevOps and Visual Studio Code? Because they have plugins for freaking everything. I am sure there is something there that... 39:30 – Ed: I am a VI guy and I’m like 90% sure there is something there. You are an eMac’s guy? The way I think about it is through Git right out of the box. Yes, I think there are better things out there for integration. I know we have a lot of great things in Visual Code, because I worked with it. 40:45 – Chuck: Yes, people can look for extensions and see what the capabilities are. Chuck talks about code editor and tools.  41:28 – Ed: ... we have been pulling that out as quickly as possible. We do have IE extensions, I am sure there is something for VS Code – but it’s not where I want to spend my time. 42:02 – Chuck: Yes, sure. 42:07 – Ed: But everyone is different – they won’t work the way that I work. So there’s that. 42:30 – Ed: That Chuck. 42:36 – Chuck: Where do people get news? 42:42 – Ed: Go to here! 42:54 – Chuck: Where do people find you? 43:00 – Ed: Twitter! 43:07 – Chuck: Let’s do Picks! 43:20 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Links: GitHub Microsoft’s Azure Microsoft’s Pipeline Azure DevOps Erlang WhiteSource Chuck’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s GitHub Ed Thomson’s Website Ed Thomson’s LinkedIn Picks: Ed Podcast - All Things Git

Sponsors: KendoUI Sentry use the code "devchat" for $100 credit Clubhouse Panel: Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ed Thomson In this episode, the Charles speaks with Ed Thomson who is a Program Manager at Azure through Microsoft, Developer, and Open Source Maintainer. Ed and Chuck discuss in full detail about Azure DevOps! Check out today’s episode to hear its new features and other exciting news! Show Topics: 0:59 – Live at Microsoft Ignite 1:03 – Ed: Hi! I am a Program Manager at Azure. 1:28 – Rewind 2 episodes to hear more about Azure DevOps! 1:51 – Ed: One of the moves from Pipelines to DevOps – they could still adopt Pipelines. Now that they are separate services – it’s great. 2:38 – Chuck talks about features he does and doesn’t use. 2:54 – Ed. 3:00 – Chuck: Repos and Pipelines. I am going to dive right in. Let’s talk about Repos. Microsoft just acquired GitHub. 3:18 – Ed: Technically we have not officially acquired GitHub. 3:34 – Chuck: It’s not done. It’s the end of September now. 3:55 – Ed: They will remain the same thing for a while. GitHub is the home for open source. Repos – we use it in Microsoft. Repositories are huge. There are 4,000 engineers working in these repositories. Everyone works in his or her own little area, and you have to work together. You have to do all this engineering to get there. We bit a tool and it basically if you run clone... Ed continues to talk about this topic. He is talking about One Drive and these repositories. 6:28 – Ed: We aren’t going to be mixing and matching. I used to work through GitHub. It’s exciting to see those people work close to me. 6:54 – Chuck. 6:59 – Ed: It has come a long way. 7:07 – Chuck: Beyond the FSF are we talking about other features or? 7:21 – Ed: We have unique features. We have branch policies. You can require that people do pole request. You have to use pole request and your CI has to pass and things like that. I think there is a lot of richness in our auditing. We have enterprise focus. At its core it still is Git. We can all interoperate. 8:17 – Chuck. 8:37 – Ed: You just can’t set it up with Apache. You have to figure it out. 8:51 – Chuck: The method of pushing and pulling. 9:06 – Chuck: You can try DevOps for free up to 5 users and unlimited private repos. People are interested in this because GitHub makes you pay for that. 9:38 – Ed and Chuck continue to talk. 9:50 – Ed: Pipelines is the most interesting thing we are working on. We have revamped the entire experience. Build and release. It’s easy to get started. We have a visual designer. Super helpful – super straightforward. Releases once your code is built – get it out to production say for example Azure. It’s the important thing to get your code out there. 10:55 – Chuck: How can someone start with this? 11:00 – Ed: Depends on where your repository is. It will look at your code. “Oh, I know what that is, I know how to build that!” Maybe everyone isn’t doing everything with JavaScript. If you are using DotNet then it will know. 12:05 – Chuck: What if I am using both a backend and a frontend? 12:11 – Ed: One repository? That’s when you will have to do a little hand packing on the... There are different opportunities there. If you have a bash script that does it for you. If not, then you can orchestrate it. Reduce the time it takes. If it’s an open source project; there’s 2 – what are you going to do with the other 8? You’d be surprised – people try to sneak that in there. 13:30 – Chuck: It seems like continuous integration isn’t a whole lot complicated. 13:39 – Ed: I am a simple guy that’s how I do it. You can do advanced stuff, though. The Cake Build system – they are doing some crazy things. We have got Windows, Lennox, and others. Are you building for Raspberries Pies, then okay, do this... It’s not just running a script. 15:00 – Chuck: People do get pretty complicated if they want. It can get complicated. Who knows? 15:26 – Chuck:  How much work do you have to do to set-up a Pipeline like that? 15:37 – Ed answers the question in detail. 16:03 – Chuck asks a question. 16:12 – Ed: Now this is where it gets contentious. If one fails... Our default task out of the box... 16:56 – Chuck: If you want 2 steps you can (like me who is crazy). 17:05 – Ed: Yes, I want to see if it failed. 17:17 – Chuck: Dude, writing code is hard. Once you have it built and tested – continuous deployment. 17:33 – Ed: It’s very easy. It’s super straightforward, it doesn’t have to be Azure (although I hope it is!). Ed continues this conversation. 18:43 – Chuck: And it just pulls it? 18:49 – Ed: Don’t poke holes into your firewall. We do give you a lot of flexibility 19:04 – Chuck: VPN credentials? 19:10 – Ed: Just run the... 19:25 – Chuck comments. 19:36 – Ed: ...Take that Zip... 20:02 – Ed: Once the planets are finely aligned then...it will just pull from it. 20:25 – Chuck: I host my stuff on Digital Ocean. 20:46 – Ed: It’s been awhile since I played with... 20:55 – Chuck. 20:59 – Ed and Chuck go back and forth with different situations and hypothetical situations. 21:10 – Ed: What is Phoenix? 21:20 – Chuck explains it. 21:25 – Ed: Here is what we probably don’t have is a lot of ERLANG support. 22:41 – Advertisement. 23:31 – Chuck: Let’s just say it’s a possibility. We took the strip down node and... 23:49 – Ed: I think it’s going to happen. 23:55 – Ed: Exactly. 24:02 – Chuck: Testing against Azure services. So, it’s one thing to run on my machine but it’s another thing when other things connect nicely with an Azure set-up. Does it connect natively once it’s in the Azure cloud? 24:35 – Ed: It should, but there are so many services, so I don’t want to say that everything is identical. We will say yes with an asterisk. 25:07 – Chuck: With continuous deployment... 25:41 – Ed: As an example: I have a CD Pipeline for my website. Every time I merge into master... Ed continues this hypothetical situation with full details. Check it out! 27:03 – Chuck: You probably can do just about anything – deploy by Tweet! 27:15 – Ed: You can stop the deployment if people on Twitter start complaining. 27:40 – Chuck: That is awesome! IF it is something you care about – and if it’s worth the time – then why not? If you don’t have to think about it then great. I have mentioned this before: Am I solving interesting problems? What projects do I want to work on? What kinds of contributions do I really want to contribute to open source? That’s the thing – if you have all these tools that are set-up then your process, how do you work on what, and remove the pain points then you can just write code so people can use! That’s the power of this – because it catches the bug before I have to catch it – then that saves me time. 30:08 – Ed: That’s the dream of computers is that the computers are supposed to make OUR lives easier. IF we can do that and catch those bugs before you catch it then you are saving time. Finding bugs as quickly as possible it avoids downtime and messy deployments. 31:03 – Chuck: Then you can use time for coding style and other things. I can take mental shortcuts. 31:37 – Ed: The other thing you can do is avoiding security problems. If a static code analysis tool catches an integer overflow then... 32:30 – Chuck adds his comments. Chuck: You can set your policy to block it or ignore it. Then you are running these tools to run security. There are third-party tools that do security analysis on your code. Do you integrate with those? 33:00 – Ed: Yep. My favorite is WhiteSource. It knows all of the open source and third-party tools. It can scan your code and... 34:05 – Chuck: It works with a lot of languages. 34:14 – Ed. 34:25 – Chuck: A lot of JavaScript developers are getting into mobile development, like Ionic, and others. You have all these systems out there for different stages for writing for mobile. Android, windows Phone, Blackberry... 35:04 – Ed: Let’s throw out Blackberry builds. We will ignore it. Mac OS dies a fine job. That’s why we have all of those. 35:29 – Chuck: But I want to run my tests, too! 35:36 – Ed: I really like to use App Center. It is ultimately incredible to see all the tests you can run. 36:29 – Chuck: The deployment is different, though, right? 36:40 – Ed: I have a friend who clicks a button in... Azure DevOps. 37:00 – Chuck: I like to remind people that this isn’t a new product. 37:15 – Ed: Yes, Azure DevOps. 37:24 – Chuck: Any new features that are coming out? 37:27 – Ed: We took a little break, but... 37:47 – Ed: We will pick back up once Ignite is over. We have a timeline on our website when we expect to launch some new features, and some are secret, so keep checking out the website. 39:07 – Chuck: What is the interplay between Azure DevOps and Visual Studio Code? Because they have plugins for freaking everything. I am sure there is something there that... 39:30 – Ed: I am a VI guy and I’m like 90% sure there is something there. You are an eMac’s guy? The way I think about it is through Git right out of the box. Yes, I think there are better things out there for integration. I know we have a lot of great things in Visual Code, because I worked with it. 40:45 – Chuck: Yes, people can look for extensions and see what the capabilities are. Chuck talks about code editor and tools.  41:28 – Ed: ... we have been pulling that out as quickly as possible. We do have IE extensions, I am sure there is something for VS Code – but it’s not where I want to spend my time. 42:02 – Chuck: Yes, sure. 42:07 – Ed: But everyone is different – they won’t work the way that I work. So there’s that. 42:30 – Ed: That Chuck. 42:36 – Chuck: Where do people get news? 42:42 – Ed: Go to here! 42:54 – Chuck: Where do people find you? 43:00 – Ed: Twitter! 43:07 – Chuck: Let’s do Picks! 43:20 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Links: GitHub Microsoft’s Azure Microsoft’s Pipeline Azure DevOps Erlang WhiteSource Chuck’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s GitHub Ed Thomson’s Website Ed Thomson’s LinkedIn Picks: Ed Podcast - All Things Git

Sponsors: KendoUI Sentry use the code "devchat" for $100 credit Clubhouse Panel: Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ed Thomson In this episode, the Charles speaks with Ed Thomson who is a Program Manager at Azure through Microsoft, Developer, and Open Source Maintainer. Ed and Chuck discuss in full detail about Azure DevOps! Check out today’s episode to hear its new features and other exciting news! Show Topics: 0:59 – Live at Microsoft Ignite 1:03 – Ed: Hi! I am a Program Manager at Azure. 1:28 – Rewind 2 episodes to hear more about Azure DevOps! 1:51 – Ed: One of the moves from Pipelines to DevOps – they could still adopt Pipelines. Now that they are separate services – it’s great. 2:38 – Chuck talks about features he does and doesn’t use. 2:54 – Ed. 3:00 – Chuck: Repos and Pipelines. I am going to dive right in. Let’s talk about Repos. Microsoft just acquired GitHub. 3:18 – Ed: Technically we have not officially acquired GitHub. 3:34 – Chuck: It’s not done. It’s the end of September now. 3:55 – Ed: They will remain the same thing for a while. GitHub is the home for open source. Repos – we use it in Microsoft. Repositories are huge. There are 4,000 engineers working in these repositories. Everyone works in his or her own little area, and you have to work together. You have to do all this engineering to get there. We bit a tool and it basically if you run clone... Ed continues to talk about this topic. He is talking about One Drive and these repositories. 6:28 – Ed: We aren’t going to be mixing and matching. I used to work through GitHub. It’s exciting to see those people work close to me. 6:54 – Chuck. 6:59 – Ed: It has come a long way. 7:07 – Chuck: Beyond the FSF are we talking about other features or? 7:21 – Ed: We have unique features. We have branch policies. You can require that people do pole request. You have to use pole request and your CI has to pass and things like that. I think there is a lot of richness in our auditing. We have enterprise focus. At its core it still is Git. We can all interoperate. 8:17 – Chuck. 8:37 – Ed: You just can’t set it up with Apache. You have to figure it out. 8:51 – Chuck: The method of pushing and pulling. 9:06 – Chuck: You can try DevOps for free up to 5 users and unlimited private repos. People are interested in this because GitHub makes you pay for that. 9:38 – Ed and Chuck continue to talk. 9:50 – Ed: Pipelines is the most interesting thing we are working on. We have revamped the entire experience. Build and release. It’s easy to get started. We have a visual designer. Super helpful – super straightforward. Releases once your code is built – get it out to production say for example Azure. It’s the important thing to get your code out there. 10:55 – Chuck: How can someone start with this? 11:00 – Ed: Depends on where your repository is. It will look at your code. “Oh, I know what that is, I know how to build that!” Maybe everyone isn’t doing everything with JavaScript. If you are using DotNet then it will know. 12:05 – Chuck: What if I am using both a backend and a frontend? 12:11 – Ed: One repository? That’s when you will have to do a little hand packing on the... There are different opportunities there. If you have a bash script that does it for you. If not, then you can orchestrate it. Reduce the time it takes. If it’s an open source project; there’s 2 – what are you going to do with the other 8? You’d be surprised – people try to sneak that in there. 13:30 – Chuck: It seems like continuous integration isn’t a whole lot complicated. 13:39 – Ed: I am a simple guy that’s how I do it. You can do advanced stuff, though. The Cake Build system – they are doing some crazy things. We have got Windows, Lennox, and others. Are you building for Raspberries Pies, then okay, do this... It’s not just running a script. 15:00 – Chuck: People do get pretty complicated if they want. It can get complicated. Who knows? 15:26 – Chuck:  How much work do you have to do to set-up a Pipeline like that? 15:37 – Ed answers the question in detail. 16:03 – Chuck asks a question. 16:12 – Ed: Now this is where it gets contentious. If one fails... Our default task out of the box... 16:56 – Chuck: If you want 2 steps you can (like me who is crazy). 17:05 – Ed: Yes, I want to see if it failed. 17:17 – Chuck: Dude, writing code is hard. Once you have it built and tested – continuous deployment. 17:33 – Ed: It’s very easy. It’s super straightforward, it doesn’t have to be Azure (although I hope it is!). Ed continues this conversation. 18:43 – Chuck: And it just pulls it? 18:49 – Ed: Don’t poke holes into your firewall. We do give you a lot of flexibility 19:04 – Chuck: VPN credentials? 19:10 – Ed: Just run the... 19:25 – Chuck comments. 19:36 – Ed: ...Take that Zip... 20:02 – Ed: Once the planets are finely aligned then...it will just pull from it. 20:25 – Chuck: I host my stuff on Digital Ocean. 20:46 – Ed: It’s been awhile since I played with... 20:55 – Chuck. 20:59 – Ed and Chuck go back and forth with different situations and hypothetical situations. 21:10 – Ed: What is Phoenix? 21:20 – Chuck explains it. 21:25 – Ed: Here is what we probably don’t have is a lot of ERLANG support. 22:41 – Advertisement. 23:31 – Chuck: Let’s just say it’s a possibility. We took the strip down node and... 23:49 – Ed: I think it’s going to happen. 23:55 – Ed: Exactly. 24:02 – Chuck: Testing against Azure services. So, it’s one thing to run on my machine but it’s another thing when other things connect nicely with an Azure set-up. Does it connect natively once it’s in the Azure cloud? 24:35 – Ed: It should, but there are so many services, so I don’t want to say that everything is identical. We will say yes with an asterisk. 25:07 – Chuck: With continuous deployment... 25:41 – Ed: As an example: I have a CD Pipeline for my website. Every time I merge into master... Ed continues this hypothetical situation with full details. Check it out! 27:03 – Chuck: You probably can do just about anything – deploy by Tweet! 27:15 – Ed: You can stop the deployment if people on Twitter start complaining. 27:40 – Chuck: That is awesome! IF it is something you care about – and if it’s worth the time – then why not? If you don’t have to think about it then great. I have mentioned this before: Am I solving interesting problems? What projects do I want to work on? What kinds of contributions do I really want to contribute to open source? That’s the thing – if you have all these tools that are set-up then your process, how do you work on what, and remove the pain points then you can just write code so people can use! That’s the power of this – because it catches the bug before I have to catch it – then that saves me time. 30:08 – Ed: That’s the dream of computers is that the computers are supposed to make OUR lives easier. IF we can do that and catch those bugs before you catch it then you are saving time. Finding bugs as quickly as possible it avoids downtime and messy deployments. 31:03 – Chuck: Then you can use time for coding style and other things. I can take mental shortcuts. 31:37 – Ed: The other thing you can do is avoiding security problems. If a static code analysis tool catches an integer overflow then... 32:30 – Chuck adds his comments. Chuck: You can set your policy to block it or ignore it. Then you are running these tools to run security. There are third-party tools that do security analysis on your code. Do you integrate with those? 33:00 – Ed: Yep. My favorite is WhiteSource. It knows all of the open source and third-party tools. It can scan your code and... 34:05 – Chuck: It works with a lot of languages. 34:14 – Ed. 34:25 – Chuck: A lot of JavaScript developers are getting into mobile development, like Ionic, and others. You have all these systems out there for different stages for writing for mobile. Android, windows Phone, Blackberry... 35:04 – Ed: Let’s throw out Blackberry builds. We will ignore it. Mac OS dies a fine job. That’s why we have all of those. 35:29 – Chuck: But I want to run my tests, too! 35:36 – Ed: I really like to use App Center. It is ultimately incredible to see all the tests you can run. 36:29 – Chuck: The deployment is different, though, right? 36:40 – Ed: I have a friend who clicks a button in... Azure DevOps. 37:00 – Chuck: I like to remind people that this isn’t a new product. 37:15 – Ed: Yes, Azure DevOps. 37:24 – Chuck: Any new features that are coming out? 37:27 – Ed: We took a little break, but... 37:47 – Ed: We will pick back up once Ignite is over. We have a timeline on our website when we expect to launch some new features, and some are secret, so keep checking out the website. 39:07 – Chuck: What is the interplay between Azure DevOps and Visual Studio Code? Because they have plugins for freaking everything. I am sure there is something there that... 39:30 – Ed: I am a VI guy and I’m like 90% sure there is something there. You are an eMac’s guy? The way I think about it is through Git right out of the box. Yes, I think there are better things out there for integration. I know we have a lot of great things in Visual Code, because I worked with it. 40:45 – Chuck: Yes, people can look for extensions and see what the capabilities are. Chuck talks about code editor and tools.  41:28 – Ed: ... we have been pulling that out as quickly as possible. We do have IE extensions, I am sure there is something for VS Code – but it’s not where I want to spend my time. 42:02 – Chuck: Yes, sure. 42:07 – Ed: But everyone is different – they won’t work the way that I work. So there’s that. 42:30 – Ed: That Chuck. 42:36 – Chuck: Where do people get news? 42:42 – Ed: Go to here! 42:54 – Chuck: Where do people find you? 43:00 – Ed: Twitter! 43:07 – Chuck: Let’s do Picks! 43:20 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Links: GitHub Microsoft’s Azure Microsoft’s Pipeline Azure DevOps Erlang WhiteSource Chuck’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s GitHub Ed Thomson’s Website Ed Thomson’s LinkedIn Picks: Ed Podcast - All Things Git

Panel: Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ed Thomson In this episode, the Charles speaks with Ed Thomson who is a Program Manager at Azure through Microsoft, Developer, and Open Source Maintainer. Ed and Chuck discuss in full detail about Azure DevOps! Check out today’s episode to hear its new features and other exciting news! Show Topics: 0:59 – Live at Microsoft Ignite 1:03 – Ed: Hi! I am a Program Manager at Azure. 1:28 – Rewind 2 episodes to hear more about Azure DevOps! 1:51 – Ed: One of the moves from Pipelines to DevOps – they could still adopt Pipelines. Now that they are separate services – it’s great. 2:38 – Chuck talks about features he does and doesn’t use. 2:54 – Ed. 3:00 – Chuck: Repos and Pipelines. I am going to dive right in. Let’s talk about Repos. Microsoft just acquired GitHub. 3:18 – Ed: Technically we have not officially acquired GitHub. 3:34 – Chuck: It’s not done. It’s the end of September now. 3:55 – Ed: They will remain the same thing for a while. GitHub is the home for open source. Repos – we use it in Microsoft. Repositories are huge. There are 4,000 engineers working in these repositories. Everyone works in his or her own little area, and you have to work together. You have to do all this engineering to get there. We bit a tool and it basically if you run clone... Ed continues to talk about this topic. He is talking about One Drive and these repositories. 6:28 – Ed: We aren’t going to be mixing and matching. I used to work through GitHub. It’s exciting to see those people work close to me. 6:54 – Chuck. 6:59 – Ed: It has come a long way. 7:07 – Chuck: Beyond the FSF are we talking about other features or? 7:21 – Ed: We have unique features. We have branch policies. You can require that people do pole request. You have to use pole request and your CI has to pass and things like that. I think there is a lot of richness in our auditing. We have enterprise focus. At its core it still is Git. We can all interoperate. 8:17 – Chuck. 8:37 – Ed: You just can’t set it up with Apache. You have to figure it out. 8:51 – Chuck: The method of pushing and pulling. 9:06 – Chuck: You can try DevOps for free up to 5 users and unlimited private repos. People are interested in this because GitHub makes you pay for that. 9:38 – Ed and Chuck continue to talk. 9:50 – Ed: Pipelines is the most interesting thing we are working on. We have revamped the entire experience. Build and release. It’s easy to get started. We have a visual designer. Super helpful – super straightforward. Releases once your code is built – get it out to production say for example Azure. It’s the important thing to get your code out there. 10:55 – Chuck: How can someone start with this? 11:00 – Ed: Depends on where your repository is. It will look at your code. “Oh, I know what that is, I know how to build that!” Maybe everyone isn’t doing everything with JavaScript. If you are using DotNet then it will know. 12:05 – Chuck: What if I am using both a backend and a frontend? 12:11 – Ed: One repository? That’s when you will have to do a little hand packing on the... There are different opportunities there. If you have a bash script that does it for you. If not, then you can orchestrate it. Reduce the time it takes. If it’s an open source project; there’s 2 – what are you going to do with the other 8? You’d be surprised – people try to sneak that in there. 13:30 – Chuck: It seems like continuous integration isn’t a whole lot complicated. 13:39 – Ed: I am a simple guy that’s how I do it. You can do advanced stuff, though. The Cake Build system – they are doing some crazy things. We have got Windows, Lennox, and others. Are you building for Raspberries Pies, then okay, do this... It’s not just running a script. 15:00 – Chuck: People do get pretty complicated if they want. It can get complicated. Who knows? 15:26 – Chuck:  How much work do you have to do to set-up a Pipeline like that? 15:37 – Ed answers the question in detail. 16:03 – Chuck asks a question. 16:12 – Ed: Now this is where it gets contentious. If one fails... Our default task out of the box... 16:56 – Chuck: If you want 2 steps you can (like me who is crazy). 17:05 – Ed: Yes, I want to see if it failed. 17:17 – Chuck: Dude, writing code is hard. Once you have it built and tested – continuous deployment. 17:33 – Ed: It’s very easy. It’s super straightforward, it doesn’t have to be Azure (although I hope it is!). Ed continues this conversation. 18:43 – Chuck: And it just pulls it? 18:49 – Ed: Don’t poke holes into your firewall. We do give you a lot of flexibility 19:04 – Chuck: VPN credentials? 19:10 – Ed: Just run the... 19:25 – Chuck comments. 19:36 – Ed: ...Take that Zip... 20:02 – Ed: Once the planets are finely aligned then...it will just pull from it. 20:25 – Chuck: I host my stuff on Digital Ocean. 20:46 – Ed: It’s been awhile since I played with... 20:55 – Chuck. 20:59 – Ed and Chuck go back and forth with different situations and hypothetical situations. 21:10 – Ed: What is Phoenix? 21:20 – Chuck explains it. 21:25 – Ed: Here is what we probably don’t have is a lot of ERLANG support. 22:41 – Advertisement. 23:31 – Chuck: Let’s just say it’s a possibility. We took the strip down node and... 23:49 – Ed: I think it’s going to happen. 23:55 – Ed: Exactly. 24:02 – Chuck: Testing against Azure services. So, it’s one thing to run on my machine but it’s another thing when other things connect nicely with an Azure set-up. Does it connect natively once it’s in the Azure cloud? 24:35 – Ed: It should, but there are so many services, so I don’t want to say that everything is identical. We will say yes with an asterisk. 25:07 – Chuck: With continuous deployment... 25:41 – Ed: As an example: I have a CD Pipeline for my website. Every time I merge into master... Ed continues this hypothetical situation with full details. Check it out! 27:03 – Chuck: You probably can do just about anything – deploy by Tweet! 27:15 – Ed: You can stop the deployment if people on Twitter start complaining. 27:40 – Chuck: That is awesome! IF it is something you care about – and if it’s worth the time – then why not? If you don’t have to think about it then great. I have mentioned this before: Am I solving interesting problems? What projects do I want to work on? What kinds of contributions do I really want to contribute to open source? That’s the thing – if you have all these tools that are set-up then your process, how do you work on what, and remove the pain points then you can just write code so people can use! That’s the power of this – because it catches the bug before I have to catch it – then that saves me time. 30:08 – Ed: That’s the dream of computers is that the computers are supposed to make OUR lives easier. IF we can do that and catch those bugs before you catch it then you are saving time. Finding bugs as quickly as possible it avoids downtime and messy deployments. 31:03 – Chuck: Then you can use time for coding style and other things. I can take mental shortcuts. 31:37 – Ed: The other thing you can do is avoiding security problems. If a static code analysis tool catches an integer overflow then... 32:30 – Chuck adds his comments. Chuck: You can set your policy to block it or ignore it. Then you are running these tools to run security. There are third-party tools that do security analysis on your code. Do you integrate with those? 33:00 – Ed: Yep. My favorite is WhiteSource. It knows all of the open source and third-party tools. It can scan your code and... 34:05 – Chuck: It works with a lot of languages. 34:14 – Ed. 34:25 – Chuck: A lot of JavaScript developers are getting into mobile development, like Ionic, and others. You have all these systems out there for different stages for writing for mobile. Android, windows Phone, Blackberry... 35:04 – Ed: Let’s throw out Blackberry builds. We will ignore it. Mac OS dies a fine job. That’s why we have all of those. 35:29 – Chuck: But I want to run my tests, too! 35:36 – Ed: I really like to use App Center. It is ultimately incredible to see all the tests you can run. 36:29 – Chuck: The deployment is different, though, right? 36:40 – Ed: I have a friend who clicks a button in... Azure DevOps. 37:00 – Chuck: I like to remind people that this isn’t a new product. 37:15 – Ed: Yes, Azure DevOps. 37:24 – Chuck: Any new features that are coming out? 37:27 – Ed: We took a little break, but... 37:47 – Ed: We will pick back up once Ignite is over. We have a timeline on our website when we expect to launch some new features, and some are secret, so keep checking out the website. 39:07 – Chuck: What is the interplay between Azure DevOps and Visual Studio Code? Because they have plugins for freaking everything. I am sure there is something there that... 39:30 – Ed: I am a VI guy and I’m like 90% sure there is something there. You are an eMac’s guy? The way I think about it is through Git right out of the box. Yes, I think there are better things out there for integration. I know we have a lot of great things in Visual Code, because I worked with it. 40:45 – Chuck: Yes, people can look for extensions and see what the capabilities are. Chuck talks about code editor and tools.  41:28 – Ed: ... we have been pulling that out as quickly as possible. We do have IE extensions, I am sure there is something for VS Code – but it’s not where I want to spend my time. 42:02 – Chuck: Yes, sure. 42:07 – Ed: But everyone is different – they won’t work the way that I work. So there’s that. 42:30 – Ed: That Chuck. 42:36 – Chuck: Where do people get news? 42:42 – Ed: Go to here! 42:54 – Chuck: Where do people find you? 43:00 – Ed: Twitter! 43:07 – Chuck: Let’s do Picks! 43:20 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Links: GitHub Microsoft’s Azure Microsoft’s Pipeline Azure DevOps Erlang WhiteSource Chuck’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s GitHub Ed Thomson’s Website Ed Thomson’s LinkedIn Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Fresh Books Get a Coder Job Course Picks: Ed Podcast - All Things Git

Panel: Charles Max Woods Special Guests: Donovan Brown In this episode, the Charles speaks with Donovan Brown. He is a principal DevOps Manager with Microsoft with a background in application development. He also runs one of the nation’s fastest growing online registration sites for motorsports events DLBRACING.com. When he is not writing software, he races cars for fun. Listen to today’s episode where Chuck and Donovan talk about DevOps, Azure, Python, Angular, React, Vue, and much, much more! Show Topics: 1:41 – Chuck: The philosophies around DevOps. Just to give you an idea, I have been thinking about what I want to do with the podcasts. Freedom to work on what we want or freedom to work where we want, etc. Then that goes into things we don’t want to do, like fix bugs, etc. How does Microsoft DevOps to choose what they want to do? 2:37 – Guest: We want to automate as much as we can so the developer has less work. As a developer I want to commit code, do another task, rinse and repeating. Minutes and not even hours later then people are tweeting about the next best thing. Do what you want, where you want. Code any language you want. 4:15 – Chuck: What has changed? 4:19 – Guest: The branding changed. The name wasn’t the most favorite among the people. The word “visual” was a concerned. What we have noticed that Azure will let me run my code no matter where I am. If you want to run Python or others it can run in Azure. People didn’t need all of it. It comes with depositories, project management, and so much more! People could feel clumsy because there is so much stuff. We can streamline that now, and you can turn off that feature so you don’t have a heart attack. Maybe you are using us for some features not all of them – cool. 7:40 – Chuck: With deployments and other things – we don’t talk about the process for development a lot. 8:00 – Guest talks about the things that can help out with that. Guest: Our process is going to help guide you. We have that all built into the Azure tab feature. They feel and act differently. I tell all the people all the time that it’s brilliant stuff. There are 3 different templates. The templates actually change over the language. You don’t have to do mental math. 9:57 – Chuck: Just talking about the process. Which of these things we work on next when I’ve got a bug, or a ... 10:20 – Guest: The board system works like for example you have a bug. The steps to reproduce that bug, so that there is no question what go into this specific field. Let the anatomy of the feature do it itself! 11:54 – Chuck comments. 12:26 – Chuck: Back to the feature. Creating the user stories is a different process than X. 12:44 – Guest – You have a hierarchy then, right? Also what is really cool is we have case state management. I can click on this and I expect this to happen... These are actual tasks that I can run. 13:52 – Chuck: Once you have those tests written can you pull those into your CI? 14:00 – Guest: “Manual tests x0.” Guest dives into the question. 14:47 – I expect my team to write those test cases. The answer to your question is yes and no. We got so good at it that we found something that didn’t even exist, yet. 16:19 – Guest: As a developer it might be mind 16:29 – Chuck: I fixed this bug 4x, I wished I had CI to help me. 16:46 – Guest: You get a bug, then you fix a code, etc., etc. You don’t know that this original bug just came back. Fix it again. Am I in Groundhog Day? They are related to each other. You don’t have a unit test to tell you. When you get that very first bug – write a unit test. It will make you quicker at fixing it. A unit test you can write really fast over, and over, again. The test is passing. What do you do? Test it. Write the code to fix that unit test. You can see that how these relate to each other. That’s the beauty in it. 18:33 – Chuck: 90% of the unit tests I write – even 95% of the time they pass. It’s the 5% you would have no idea that it’s related. I can remember broad strokes of the code that I wrote, but 3 months down the road I can’t remember. 19:14 – Guest: If you are in a time crunch – I don’t have time for this unit test. Guest gives us a hypothetical situation to show how unit tests really can help. 20:25 – Make it muscle memory to unit test. I am a faster developer with the unit tests. 20:45 – Chuck: In the beginning it took forever. Now it’s just how I write software now. It guides my thought process. 21:06 – Guest: Yes! I agree. 22:00 – Guest: Don’t do the unit tests 22:10 – Chuck: Other place is when you write a new feature,...go through the process. Write unit tests for the things that you’ve touched. Expand your level of comfort. DevOps – we are talking about processes. Sounds like your DevOps is a flexible tool. Some people are looking for A METHOD. Like a business coach. Does Azure DevOps do that? 23:13 – Guest: Azure DevOps Projects. YoTeam. Note.js, Java and others are mentioned by the Guest. 25:00 – Code Badges’ Advertisement 25:48 – Chuck: I am curious – 2 test sweets for Angular or React or Vue. How does that work? 26:05 – Guest: So that is Jasmine or Mocha? So it really doesn’t matter. I’m a big fan of Mocha. It tests itself. I install local to my project alone – I can do it on any CI system in the world. YoTeam is not used in your pipeline. Install 2 parts – Yo and Generator – Team. Answer the questions and it’s awesome. I’ve done conferences in New Zealand. 28:37 – Chuck: Why would I go anywhere else? 28:44 – Guest: YoTeam  was the idea of... 28:57 – Check out Guest 29:02 – Guest: I want Donovan in a box. If I weren’t there then the show wouldn’t exist today. 29:40 – Chuck: Asks a question. 29:46 – Guest: 5 different verticals. Check out this timestamp to see what Donovan says the 5 different verticals are. Pipelines is 1 of the 5. 30:55 – Chuck: Yep – it works on my Mac. 31:04 – Guest: We also have Test Plant and Artifacts. 31:42 – Chuck: Can you resolve that on your developer machine? 31:46 – Guest: Yes, absolutely! There is my private repository and... 33:14 – Guest: *People not included in box.* 33:33 – Guest: It’s people driven. We guide you through the process. The value is the most important part and people is the hardest part, but once on 33:59 – Chuck: I am listening to this show and I want to try this out. I want a demo setup so I can show my boss. How do I show him that it works? 34:27 – Azure.com/devops – that is a great landing page. How can I get a demo going? You can say here is my account – and they can put a demo into your account. I would not do a demo that this is cool. We start you for free. Create an account. Let the CI be the proof. It’s your job to do this, because it will make you more efficient. You need me to be using these tools. 36:11 – Chuck comments. 36:17 – Guest: Say you are on a team of developers and love GitHub and things that integration is stupid, but how many people would disagree about... 38:02 – The reports prove it for themselves. 38:20 – Chuck: You can get started for free – so when do you have to start paying for it? 38:31 – Guest: Get 4 of your buddies and then need more people it’s $6 a month. 39:33 – Chuck adds in comments. If this is free? 39:43 – Guest goes into the details about plans and such for this tool.  40:17 – Chuck: How easy it is to migrate away from it? 40:22 – Guest: It’s GITHub. 40:30 – Chuck: People are looing data on their CI. 40:40 – Guest: You can comb that information there over the past 4 years but I don’t know if any system would let you export that history. 41:08 – Chuck: Yeah, you are right. 41:16 – Guest adds more into this topic. 41:25 – Chuck: Yeah it’s all into the machine. 41:38 – Chuck: Good deal. 41:43 – Guest: It’s like a drug. I would never leave it. I was using TFS before Microsoft. 42:08 – Chuck: Other question: continuous deployment. 42:56 – When I say every platform, I mean every platform: mobile devices, AWS, Azure, etc. Anything you can do from a command line you can do from our build and release system. PowerShell you don’t have to abandon it. 45:20 – Guest: I can’t remember what that tool is called! 45:33 – Guest: Anything you can do from a command line. Before firewall. Anything you want. 45:52 – Guest: I love my job because I get to help developers. 46:03 – Chuck: What do you think the biggest mistake people are doing? 46:12 – Guest: They are trying to do it all at once. Fix that one little thing. It’s instant value with no risks whatsoever. Go setup and it takes 15 minutes total. Now that we have this continuous build, now let’s go and deploy it. Don’t dream up what you think your pipeline should look like. Do one thing at a time. What hurts the most that it’s “buggy.” Let’s add that to the pipeline. It’s in your pipeline today, what hurts the most, and don’t do it all at once. 49:14 – Chuck: I thought you’d say: I don’t have the time. 49:25 – Guest: Say you work on it 15 minutes a day. 3 days in – 45 minutes in you have a CSI system that works forever. Yes I agree because people think they don’t “have the time.” 50:18 – Guest continues this conversation. How do you not have CI? Just install it – don’t ask. Just do the right thing. 50:40 – Chuck: I free-lanced and setup CI for my team. After a month, getting warned, we had a monitor up on the screen and it was either RED or GREEN. It was basically – hey this hurts and now we know. Either we are going to have pain or not have pain. 51:41 – Guest continues this conversation. Have pain – we should only have pain once or twice a year. Rollback. If you only have it every 6 months, that’s not too bad. The pain will motivate you. 52:40 – Azure.com/devops. Azure DevOps’ Twitter 53:22 – Picks! 53:30 – Advertisement – Get a Coder Job Links: Donovan Brown’s GitHub Donovan Brown’s Twitter Donovan Brown Donovan Brown – Channel 9 Donovan Brown – Microsoft Azure YoTeam Azure.com/devops GitHub Azure DevOps’ Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job course Picks: Charles Jet Blue Beta Testers Donovan YoTeam VSTeam Powershell Module

Panel: Charles Max Woods Special Guests: Donovan Brown In this episode, the Charles speaks with Donovan Brown. He is a principal DevOps Manager with Microsoft with a background in application development. He also runs one of the nation’s fastest growing online registration sites for motorsports events DLBRACING.com. When he is not writing software, he races cars for fun. Listen to today’s episode where Chuck and Donovan talk about DevOps, Azure, Python, Angular, React, Vue, and much, much more! Show Topics: 1:41 – Chuck: The philosophies around DevOps. Just to give you an idea, I have been thinking about what I want to do with the podcasts. Freedom to work on what we want or freedom to work where we want, etc. Then that goes into things we don’t want to do, like fix bugs, etc. How does Microsoft DevOps to choose what they want to do? 2:37 – Guest: We want to automate as much as we can so the developer has less work. As a developer I want to commit code, do another task, rinse and repeating. Minutes and not even hours later then people are tweeting about the next best thing. Do what you want, where you want. Code any language you want. 4:15 – Chuck: What has changed? 4:19 – Guest: The branding changed. The name wasn’t the most favorite among the people. The word “visual” was a concerned. What we have noticed that Azure will let me run my code no matter where I am. If you want to run Python or others it can run in Azure. People didn’t need all of it. It comes with depositories, project management, and so much more! People could feel clumsy because there is so much stuff. We can streamline that now, and you can turn off that feature so you don’t have a heart attack. Maybe you are using us for some features not all of them – cool. 7:40 – Chuck: With deployments and other things – we don’t talk about the process for development a lot. 8:00 – Guest talks about the things that can help out with that. Guest: Our process is going to help guide you. We have that all built into the Azure tab feature. They feel and act differently. I tell all the people all the time that it’s brilliant stuff. There are 3 different templates. The templates actually change over the language. You don’t have to do mental math. 9:57 – Chuck: Just talking about the process. Which of these things we work on next when I’ve got a bug, or a ... 10:20 – Guest: The board system works like for example you have a bug. The steps to reproduce that bug, so that there is no question what go into this specific field. Let the anatomy of the feature do it itself! 11:54 – Chuck comments. 12:26 – Chuck: Back to the feature. Creating the user stories is a different process than X. 12:44 – Guest – You have a hierarchy then, right? Also what is really cool is we have case state management. I can click on this and I expect this to happen... These are actual tasks that I can run. 13:52 – Chuck: Once you have those tests written can you pull those into your CI? 14:00 – Guest: “Manual tests x0.” Guest dives into the question. 14:47 – I expect my team to write those test cases. The answer to your question is yes and no. We got so good at it that we found something that didn’t even exist, yet. 16:19 – Guest: As a developer it might be mind 16:29 – Chuck: I fixed this bug 4x, I wished I had CI to help me. 16:46 – Guest: You get a bug, then you fix a code, etc., etc. You don’t know that this original bug just came back. Fix it again. Am I in Groundhog Day? They are related to each other. You don’t have a unit test to tell you. When you get that very first bug – write a unit test. It will make you quicker at fixing it. A unit test you can write really fast over, and over, again. The test is passing. What do you do? Test it. Write the code to fix that unit test. You can see that how these relate to each other. That’s the beauty in it. 18:33 – Chuck: 90% of the unit tests I write – even 95% of the time they pass. It’s the 5% you would have no idea that it’s related. I can remember broad strokes of the code that I wrote, but 3 months down the road I can’t remember. 19:14 – Guest: If you are in a time crunch – I don’t have time for this unit test. Guest gives us a hypothetical situation to show how unit tests really can help. 20:25 – Make it muscle memory to unit test. I am a faster developer with the unit tests. 20:45 – Chuck: In the beginning it took forever. Now it’s just how I write software now. It guides my thought process. 21:06 – Guest: Yes! I agree. 22:00 – Guest: Don’t do the unit tests 22:10 – Chuck: Other place is when you write a new feature,...go through the process. Write unit tests for the things that you’ve touched. Expand your level of comfort. DevOps – we are talking about processes. Sounds like your DevOps is a flexible tool. Some people are looking for A METHOD. Like a business coach. Does Azure DevOps do that? 23:13 – Guest: Azure DevOps Projects. YoTeam. Note.js, Java and others are mentioned by the Guest. 25:00 – Code Badges’ Advertisement 25:48 – Chuck: I am curious – 2 test sweets for Angular or React or Vue. How does that work? 26:05 – Guest: So that is Jasmine or Mocha? So it really doesn’t matter. I’m a big fan of Mocha. It tests itself. I install local to my project alone – I can do it on any CI system in the world. YoTeam is not used in your pipeline. Install 2 parts – Yo and Generator – Team. Answer the questions and it’s awesome. I’ve done conferences in New Zealand. 28:37 – Chuck: Why would I go anywhere else? 28:44 – Guest: YoTeam  was the idea of... 28:57 – Check out Guest 29:02 – Guest: I want Donovan in a box. If I weren’t there then the show wouldn’t exist today. 29:40 – Chuck: Asks a question. 29:46 – Guest: 5 different verticals. Check out this timestamp to see what Donovan says the 5 different verticals are. Pipelines is 1 of the 5. 30:55 – Chuck: Yep – it works on my Mac. 31:04 – Guest: We also have Test Plant and Artifacts. 31:42 – Chuck: Can you resolve that on your developer machine? 31:46 – Guest: Yes, absolutely! There is my private repository and... 33:14 – Guest: *People not included in box.* 33:33 – Guest: It’s people driven. We guide you through the process. The value is the most important part and people is the hardest part, but once on 33:59 – Chuck: I am listening to this show and I want to try this out. I want a demo setup so I can show my boss. How do I show him that it works? 34:27 – Azure.com/devops – that is a great landing page. How can I get a demo going? You can say here is my account – and they can put a demo into your account. I would not do a demo that this is cool. We start you for free. Create an account. Let the CI be the proof. It’s your job to do this, because it will make you more efficient. You need me to be using these tools. 36:11 – Chuck comments. 36:17 – Guest: Say you are on a team of developers and love GitHub and things that integration is stupid, but how many people would disagree about... 38:02 – The reports prove it for themselves. 38:20 – Chuck: You can get started for free – so when do you have to start paying for it? 38:31 – Guest: Get 4 of your buddies and then need more people it’s $6 a month. 39:33 – Chuck adds in comments. If this is free? 39:43 – Guest goes into the details about plans and such for this tool.  40:17 – Chuck: How easy it is to migrate away from it? 40:22 – Guest: It’s GITHub. 40:30 – Chuck: People are looing data on their CI. 40:40 – Guest: You can comb that information there over the past 4 years but I don’t know if any system would let you export that history. 41:08 – Chuck: Yeah, you are right. 41:16 – Guest adds more into this topic. 41:25 – Chuck: Yeah it’s all into the machine. 41:38 – Chuck: Good deal. 41:43 – Guest: It’s like a drug. I would never leave it. I was using TFS before Microsoft. 42:08 – Chuck: Other question: continuous deployment. 42:56 – When I say every platform, I mean every platform: mobile devices, AWS, Azure, etc. Anything you can do from a command line you can do from our build and release system. PowerShell you don’t have to abandon it. 45:20 – Guest: I can’t remember what that tool is called! 45:33 – Guest: Anything you can do from a command line. Before firewall. Anything you want. 45:52 – Guest: I love my job because I get to help developers. 46:03 – Chuck: What do you think the biggest mistake people are doing? 46:12 – Guest: They are trying to do it all at once. Fix that one little thing. It’s instant value with no risks whatsoever. Go setup and it takes 15 minutes total. Now that we have this continuous build, now let’s go and deploy it. Don’t dream up what you think your pipeline should look like. Do one thing at a time. What hurts the most that it’s “buggy.” Let’s add that to the pipeline. It’s in your pipeline today, what hurts the most, and don’t do it all at once. 49:14 – Chuck: I thought you’d say: I don’t have the time. 49:25 – Guest: Say you work on it 15 minutes a day. 3 days in – 45 minutes in you have a CSI system that works forever. Yes I agree because people think they don’t “have the time.” 50:18 – Guest continues this conversation. How do you not have CI? Just install it – don’t ask. Just do the right thing. 50:40 – Chuck: I free-lanced and setup CI for my team. After a month, getting warned, we had a monitor up on the screen and it was either RED or GREEN. It was basically – hey this hurts and now we know. Either we are going to have pain or not have pain. 51:41 – Guest continues this conversation. Have pain – we should only have pain once or twice a year. Rollback. If you only have it every 6 months, that’s not too bad. The pain will motivate you. 52:40 – Azure.com/devops. Azure DevOps’ Twitter 53:22 – Picks! 53:30 – Advertisement – Get a Coder Job Links: Donovan Brown’s GitHub Donovan Brown’s Twitter Donovan Brown Donovan Brown – Channel 9 Donovan Brown – Microsoft Azure YoTeam Azure.com/devops GitHub Azure DevOps’ Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job course Picks: Charles Jet Blue Beta Testers Donovan YoTeam VSTeam Powershell Module

Panel: Charles Max Wood Joe Eames Aaron Frost Alyssa Nicoll Special Guests: Brian Love & Kevin Schuchard In this episode, the panelist talk with today’s special guests Brian Love & Kevin Schuchard! Brian and Kevin work at BrieBug – check out their employee profiles here! The panelist and guests talk about schematics, Angular, AST, and much more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:50 – Chuck: Hello! Our panel today is Joe, Aaron, Alyssa, and myself. We have two guests today, and we are going to talk about schematics. Let’s dive into that! 1:46 – Guest: Schematics is a library that is coming out of Angular and the Angular Team. The guest gives a definition of Angular Schematics. 2:26 – Alyssa. 2:31 – Kevin: The functionality that you are hoping for depends on the CLI that you are on. 3:00 – Alyssa: Sorry for diving into the juicy stuff but we forgot to talk about your introductions! 3:19 – The guests talk about their backgrounds and introduce themselves to the panel and the listeners. 3:49 – Alyssa. 3:54 – Guest continues. 4:21 – Panel: Crazy and busy! 4:28 – Alyssa. 4:31 – Kevin: I am Senior Developer, and I have worked here for a few years. I have had the opportunities to write some schematics for the company and some of my own schematics. 4:53 – Alyssa: Aren’t you so proud that you are a “Senior Developer”?! 5:10 – Guest and panelists go back-and-forth. 6:23 – Guests: We want people to be familiar with schematics and start their journey with schematics. 6:50 – Panel: It’s kind of trippy isn’t that right? 7:00 – Guest: Yeah there are hurdles to learning schematics at first – for sure. 7:22 – Alyssa: What is AST? 7:29 – Guest gives a definition of AST and goes into much detail about this. 10:00 – Alyssa: I think I understand, now, what AST is. Thanks. Alyssa asks the guests a question. 10:14 – Guest answers the question about AST. 10:51 – Guest continues. 11:27 – Panelist is talking about the AST and schematics. 12:03 – Guest: You can read the whole file and using the AST you can figure out where you went to enter the text. 12:25 – Alyssa asks a question. 12:28 – Guest: We are not the developers of schematics, but we are just here to share our knowledge. I want to be super clear here. 13:39 – Panelist talks about schematics, CLI, and AST. 14:18 – Guest: You don’t have to know all about AST and everything there is to know to get into it. You can build schematics w/o getting into AST. Just to be clear. 14:39 – Alyssa asks a follow-up question. 14:41 – Guest continues. 15:57 – Guest: AST has been around for a while – it’s not a new thing it’s kind of an old thing. Guest talks about tools (Code Shift) that Facebook has built that is related to this topic. 17:22 – Guest: Yeah AST has been around for a while. 17:28 – Alyssa asks a question about Code Shift. 17:36 – Guest. 18:21 – Panel and guest go back-and-forth. 19:51 – Alyssa: You said you really don’t need to get into AST to do schematics – right? (Yes.) Alyssa asks a question. 20:19 – Guest: There are two pieces with schematics and that’s adding of new files and you can decide which pieces of the templates you want to be compiled. 21:58 – Chuck: For schematics you mentioned you could drop strings in. Chuck asks a question. 22:29 – Guest answers the question with a hypothetical situation. 23:09 – Chuck: I read the article you wrote and I have a question about your article. Tell me about the tree? 23:29 – Guest talks about the tree or aka the host. 25:40 – Guest: The tree is a virtual kind of context and it’s not committing all of the changes to the file system. Whether that is adding, deleting, or updating these files. 26:10 – Chuck: Makes sense to me. 26:15 – Guest continues talking about schematics. 26:53 – Alyssa: Yeoman is a replacement for schematics? 27:05 – Guest: It’s a lightweight alternative.  27:33 – Advertisement: Angular Boot Camp 28:10 – Chuck: How does one build a schematic? 28:16 – Guest answers the question. 30:34 – Panel: What’s the latest thing you’ve built? Talk about that, please. 30:40 – Guest: It’s a schematic and took what we’ve learned to set you up for a starter project. It starts with a blank project. 32:57 – Panel: You are just talking some lessons learned and you are saying this is how Kevin says to do it. You’ve packaged that up 33:26 – Guest: Yep I have found things that work and there isn’t any magic but put these practices together and made a repository to help testing and making schematics. 33:55 – Panel and guests go back-and-forth. 34:20 – Chuck: Let’s say I’ve built this schematic and Frosty wants to share it with his friends. How do we do that? How do you share it? Is there some component that you’ve built? 35:06 – Guest: It depends on what you are doing with it. 36:14 – Chuck: For mass production, though? 36:25 – Guest: I think Chuck is wondering about discoverability. Guest continues and he mentions prettier, extensions, among other things. 37:18 – Guest: I think it’s my favorite about schematics and it’s Kevin’s. 37:40 – Guest. 38:20 – Guest continues talking about schematics and ng-conf. 38:57 – Guest talks about libraries. 40:12 – Chuck: Anything else? Do you NPM install it and it’s just there? 40:29 – Guest: There are 2 ways to go about it. 53:05 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly! Links: Vue jQuery Angular JavaScript Python React Cypress Yeoman Apache Groovy GitHub: prettier NG Conf Brian Love’s Website Kevin Schuchard’s LinkedIn BrieBug Blog Angular Schematics Tutorial Testing Schematics with a Sandbox + starter project GitHub: Schematic Starter Getting started blog post by Hans Schematics by Manfred Steyer Angular and Material CLI schematics 1 Angular and Material CLI schematics 2 AST Explorer Evening of Angular Example Schematic project with Sandbox: (Written by Kevin) https://github.com/briebug/jest-schematic https://github.com/schuchard/prettier-schematic https://github.com/briebug/ngrx-entity-schematic https://github.com/blove/schematics Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Picks: Joe Brian Love BrieBug Schematics NGConf. Minified Aaron Ice Fishing Smoking Trout Joe Eames as Dungeon Master for DND NPM JS Survey Charles Alexa Briefing EntreProgrammers.com KanBanflow Pomodoro Technique Kevin Angular Material Open Source Projects Brian Angular.io Visits on Twitter Angular Community Jesse Sanders An evening of Angular Event

Panel: Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ed Thomson In this episode, the Charles speaks with Ed Thomson who is a Program Manager at Azure through Microsoft, Developer, and Open Source Maintainer. Ed and Chuck discuss in full detail about Azure DevOps! Check out today’s episode to hear its new features and other exciting news! Show Topics: 0:59 – Live at Microsoft Ignite 1:03 – Ed: Hi! I am a Program Manager at Azure. 1:28 – Rewind 2 episodes to hear more about Azure DevOps! 1:51 – Ed: One of the moves from Pipelines to DevOps – they could still adopt Pipelines. Now that they are separate services – it’s great. 2:38 – Chuck talks about features he does and doesn’t use. 2:54 – Ed. 3:00 – Chuck: Repos and Pipelines. I am going to dive right in. Let’s talk about Repos. Microsoft just acquired GitHub. 3:18 – Ed: Technically we have not officially acquired GitHub. 3:34 – Chuck: It’s not done. It’s the end of September now. 3:55 – Ed: They will remain the same thing for a while. GitHub is the home for open source. Repos – we use it in Microsoft. Repositories are huge. There are 4,000 engineers working in these repositories. Everyone works in his or her own little area, and you have to work together. You have to do all this engineering to get there. We bit a tool and it basically if you run clone... Ed continues to talk about this topic. He is talking about One Drive and these repositories. 6:28 – Ed: We aren’t going to be mixing and matching. I used to work through GitHub. It’s exciting to see those people work close to me. 6:54 – Chuck. 6:59 – Ed: It has come a long way. 7:07 – Chuck: Beyond the FSF are we talking about other features or? 7:21 – Ed: We have unique features. We have branch policies. You can require that people do pole request. You have to use pole request and your CI has to pass and things like that. I think there is a lot of richness in our auditing. We have enterprise focus. At its core it still is Git. We can all interoperate. 8:17 – Chuck. 8:37 – Ed: You just can’t set it up with Apache. You have to figure it out. 8:51 – Chuck: The method of pushing and pulling. 9:06 – Chuck: You can try DevOps for free up to 5 users and unlimited private repos. People are interested in this because GitHub makes you pay for that. 9:38 – Ed and Chuck continue to talk. 9:50 – Ed: Pipelines is the most interesting thing we are working on. We have revamped the entire experience. Build and release. It’s easy to get started. We have a visual designer. Super helpful – super straightforward. Releases once your code is built – get it out to production say for example Azure. It’s the important thing to get your code out there. 10:55 – Chuck: How can someone start with this? 11:00 – Ed: Depends on where your repository is. It will look at your code. “Oh, I know what that is, I know how to build that!” Maybe everyone isn’t doing everything with JavaScript. If you are using DotNet then it will know. 12:05 – Chuck: What if I am using both a backend and a frontend? 12:11 – Ed: One repository? That’s when you will have to do a little hand packing on the... There are different opportunities there. If you have a bash script that does it for you. If not, then you can orchestrate it. Reduce the time it takes. If it’s an open source project; there’s 2 – what are you going to do with the other 8? You’d be surprised – people try to sneak that in there. 13:30 – Chuck: It seems like continuous integration isn’t a whole lot complicated. 13:39 – Ed: I am a simple guy that’s how I do it. You can do advanced stuff, though. The Cake Build system – they are doing some crazy things. We have got Windows, Lennox, and others. Are you building for Raspberries Pies, then okay, do this... It’s not just running a script. 15:00 – Chuck: People do get pretty complicated if they want. It can get complicated. Who knows? 15:26 – Chuck:  How much work do you have to do to set-up a Pipeline like that? 15:37 – Ed answers the question in detail. 16:03 – Chuck asks a question. 16:12 – Ed: Now this is where it gets contentious. If one fails... Our default task out of the box... 16:56 – Chuck: If you want 2 steps you can (like me who is crazy). 17:05 – Ed: Yes, I want to see if it failed. 17:17 – Chuck: Dude, writing code is hard. Once you have it built and tested – continuous deployment. 17:33 – Ed: It’s very easy. It’s super straightforward, it doesn’t have to be Azure (although I hope it is!). Ed continues this conversation. 18:43 – Chuck: And it just pulls it? 18:49 – Ed: Don’t poke holes into your firewall. We do give you a lot of flexibility 19:04 – Chuck: VPN credentials? 19:10 – Ed: Just run the... 19:25 – Chuck comments. 19:36 – Ed: ...Take that Zip... 20:02 – Ed: Once the planets are finely aligned then...it will just pull from it. 20:25 – Chuck: I host my stuff on Digital Ocean. 20:46 – Ed: It’s been awhile since I played with... 20:55 – Chuck. 20:59 – Ed and Chuck go back and forth with different situations and hypothetical situations. 21:10 – Ed: What is Phoenix? 21:20 – Chuck explains it. 21:25 – Ed: Here is what we probably don’t have is a lot of ERLANG support. 22:41 – Advertisement. 23:31 – Chuck: Let’s just say it’s a possibility. We took the strip down node and... 23:49 – Ed: I think it’s going to happen. 23:55 – Ed: Exactly. 24:02 – Chuck: Testing against Azure services. So, it’s one thing to run on my machine but it’s another thing when other things connect nicely with an Azure set-up. Does it connect natively once it’s in the Azure cloud? 24:35 – Ed: It should, but there are so many services, so I don’t want to say that everything is identical. We will say yes with an asterisk. 25:07 – Chuck: With continuous deployment... 25:41 – Ed: As an example: I have a CD Pipeline for my website. Every time I merge into master... Ed continues this hypothetical situation with full details. Check it out! 27:03 – Chuck: You probably can do just about anything – deploy by Tweet! 27:15 – Ed: You can stop the deployment if people on Twitter start complaining. 27:40 – Chuck: That is awesome! IF it is something you care about – and if it’s worth the time – then why not? If you don’t have to think about it then great. I have mentioned this before: Am I solving interesting problems? What projects do I want to work on? What kinds of contributions do I really want to contribute to open source? That’s the thing – if you have all these tools that are set-up then your process, how do you work on what, and remove the pain points then you can just write code so people can use! That’s the power of this – because it catches the bug before I have to catch it – then that saves me time. 30:08 – Ed: That’s the dream of computers is that the computers are supposed to make OUR lives easier. IF we can do that and catch those bugs before you catch it then you are saving time. Finding bugs as quickly as possible it avoids downtime and messy deployments. 31:03 – Chuck: Then you can use time for coding style and other things. I can take mental shortcuts. 31:37 – Ed: The other thing you can do is avoiding security problems. If a static code analysis tool catches an integer overflow then... 32:30 – Chuck adds his comments. Chuck: You can set your policy to block it or ignore it. Then you are running these tools to run security. There are third-party tools that do security analysis on your code. Do you integrate with those? 33:00 – Ed: Yep. My favorite is WhiteSource. It knows all of the open source and third-party tools. It can scan your code and... 34:05 – Chuck: It works with a lot of languages. 34:14 – Ed. 34:25 – Chuck: A lot of JavaScript developers are getting into mobile development, like Ionic, and others. You have all these systems out there for different stages for writing for mobile. Android, windows Phone, Blackberry... 35:04 – Ed: Let’s throw out Blackberry builds. We will ignore it. Mac OS dies a fine job. That’s why we have all of those. 35:29 – Chuck: But I want to run my tests, too! 35:36 – Ed: I really like to use App Center. It is ultimately incredible to see all the tests you can run. 36:29 – Chuck: The deployment is different, though, right? 36:40 – Ed: I have a friend who clicks a button in... Azure DevOps. 37:00 – Chuck: I like to remind people that this isn’t a new product. 37:15 – Ed: Yes, Azure DevOps. 37:24 – Chuck: Any new features that are coming out? 37:27 – Ed: We took a little break, but... 37:47 – Ed: We will pick back up once Ignite is over. We have a timeline on our website when we expect to launch some new features, and some are secret, so keep checking out the website. 39:07 – Chuck: What is the interplay between Azure DevOps and Visual Studio Code? Because they have plugins for freaking everything. I am sure there is something there that... 39:30 – Ed: I am a VI guy and I’m like 90% sure there is something there. You are an eMac’s guy? The way I think about it is through Git right out of the box. Yes, I think there are better things out there for integration. I know we have a lot of great things in Visual Code, because I worked with it. 40:45 – Chuck: Yes, people can look for extensions and see what the capabilities are. Chuck talks about code editor and tools.  41:28 – Ed: ... we have been pulling that out as quickly as possible. We do have IE extensions, I am sure there is something for VS Code – but it’s not where I want to spend my time. 42:02 – Chuck: Yes, sure. 42:07 – Ed: But everyone is different – they won’t work the way that I work. So there’s that. 42:30 – Ed: That Chuck. 42:36 – Chuck: Where do people get news? 42:42 – Ed: Go to here! 42:54 – Chuck: Where do people find you? 43:00 – Ed: Twitter! 43:07 – Chuck: Let’s do Picks! 43:20 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Links: GitHub Microsoft’s Azure Microsoft’s Pipeline Azure DevOps Erlang WhiteSource Chuck’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s GitHub Ed Thomson’s Website Ed Thomson’s LinkedIn Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Fresh Books Get a Coder Job Course Picks: Ed Podcast - All Things Git

Panel: Charles Max Wood Joe Eames Aaron Frost Alyssa Nicoll Special Guests: Brian Love & Kevin Schuchard In this episode, the panelist talk with today’s special guests Brian Love & Kevin Schuchard! Brian and Kevin work at BrieBug – check out their employee profiles here! The panelist and guests talk about schematics, Angular, AST, and much more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:50 – Chuck: Hello! Our panel today is Joe, Aaron, Alyssa, and myself. We have two guests today, and we are going to talk about schematics. Let’s dive into that! 1:46 – Guest: Schematics is a library that is coming out of Angular and the Angular Team. The guest gives a definition of Angular Schematics. 2:26 – Alyssa. 2:31 – Kevin: The functionality that you are hoping for depends on the CLI that you are on. 3:00 – Alyssa: Sorry for diving into the juicy stuff but we forgot to talk about your introductions! 3:19 – The guests talk about their backgrounds and introduce themselves to the panel and the listeners. 3:49 – Alyssa. 3:54 – Guest continues. 4:21 – Panel: Crazy and busy! 4:28 – Alyssa. 4:31 – Kevin: I am Senior Developer, and I have worked here for a few years. I have had the opportunities to write some schematics for the company and some of my own schematics. 4:53 – Alyssa: Aren’t you so proud that you are a “Senior Developer”?! 5:10 – Guest and panelists go back-and-forth. 6:23 – Guests: We want people to be familiar with schematics and start their journey with schematics. 6:50 – Panel: It’s kind of trippy isn’t that right? 7:00 – Guest: Yeah there are hurdles to learning schematics at first – for sure. 7:22 – Alyssa: What is AST? 7:29 – Guest gives a definition of AST and goes into much detail about this. 10:00 – Alyssa: I think I understand, now, what AST is. Thanks. Alyssa asks the guests a question. 10:14 – Guest answers the question about AST. 10:51 – Guest continues. 11:27 – Panelist is talking about the AST and schematics. 12:03 – Guest: You can read the whole file and using the AST you can figure out where you went to enter the text. 12:25 – Alyssa asks a question. 12:28 – Guest: We are not the developers of schematics, but we are just here to share our knowledge. I want to be super clear here. 13:39 – Panelist talks about schematics, CLI, and AST. 14:18 – Guest: You don’t have to know all about AST and everything there is to know to get into it. You can build schematics w/o getting into AST. Just to be clear. 14:39 – Alyssa asks a follow-up question. 14:41 – Guest continues. 15:57 – Guest: AST has been around for a while – it’s not a new thing it’s kind of an old thing. Guest talks about tools (Code Shift) that Facebook has built that is related to this topic. 17:22 – Guest: Yeah AST has been around for a while. 17:28 – Alyssa asks a question about Code Shift. 17:36 – Guest. 18:21 – Panel and guest go back-and-forth. 19:51 – Alyssa: You said you really don’t need to get into AST to do schematics – right? (Yes.) Alyssa asks a question. 20:19 – Guest: There are two pieces with schematics and that’s adding of new files and you can decide which pieces of the templates you want to be compiled. 21:58 – Chuck: For schematics you mentioned you could drop strings in. Chuck asks a question. 22:29 – Guest answers the question with a hypothetical situation. 23:09 – Chuck: I read the article you wrote and I have a question about your article. Tell me about the tree? 23:29 – Guest talks about the tree or aka the host. 25:40 – Guest: The tree is a virtual kind of context and it’s not committing all of the changes to the file system. Whether that is adding, deleting, or updating these files. 26:10 – Chuck: Makes sense to me. 26:15 – Guest continues talking about schematics. 26:53 – Alyssa: Yeoman is a replacement for schematics? 27:05 – Guest: It’s a lightweight alternative.  27:33 – Advertisement: Angular Boot Camp 28:10 – Chuck: How does one build a schematic? 28:16 – Guest answers the question. 30:34 – Panel: What’s the latest thing you’ve built? Talk about that, please. 30:40 – Guest: It’s a schematic and took what we’ve learned to set you up for a starter project. It starts with a blank project. 32:57 – Panel: You are just talking some lessons learned and you are saying this is how Kevin says to do it. You’ve packaged that up 33:26 – Guest: Yep I have found things that work and there isn’t any magic but put these practices together and made a repository to help testing and making schematics. 33:55 – Panel and guests go back-and-forth. 34:20 – Chuck: Let’s say I’ve built this schematic and Frosty wants to share it with his friends. How do we do that? How do you share it? Is there some component that you’ve built? 35:06 – Guest: It depends on what you are doing with it. 36:14 – Chuck: For mass production, though? 36:25 – Guest: I think Chuck is wondering about discoverability. Guest continues and he mentions prettier, extensions, among other things. 37:18 – Guest: I think it’s my favorite about schematics and it’s Kevin’s. 37:40 – Guest. 38:20 – Guest continues talking about schematics and ng-conf. 38:57 – Guest talks about libraries. 40:12 – Chuck: Anything else? Do you NPM install it and it’s just there? 40:29 – Guest: There are 2 ways to go about it. 53:05 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly! Links: Vue jQuery Angular JavaScript Python React Cypress Yeoman Apache Groovy GitHub: prettier NG Conf Brian Love’s Website Kevin Schuchard’s LinkedIn BrieBug Blog Angular Schematics Tutorial Testing Schematics with a Sandbox + starter project GitHub: Schematic Starter Getting started blog post by Hans Schematics by Manfred Steyer Angular and Material CLI schematics 1 Angular and Material CLI schematics 2 AST Explorer Evening of Angular Example Schematic project with Sandbox: (Written by Kevin) https://github.com/briebug/jest-schematic https://github.com/schuchard/prettier-schematic https://github.com/briebug/ngrx-entity-schematic https://github.com/blove/schematics Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Picks: Joe Brian Love BrieBug Schematics NGConf. Minified Aaron Ice Fishing Smoking Trout Joe Eames as Dungeon Master for DND NPM JS Survey Charles Alexa Briefing EntreProgrammers.com KanBanflow Pomodoro Technique Kevin Angular Material Open Source Projects Brian Angular.io Visits on Twitter Angular Community Jesse Sanders An evening of Angular Event

Panel: Charles Max Woods Special Guests: Donovan Brown In this episode, the Charles speaks with Donovan Brown. He is a principal DevOps Manager with Microsoft with a background in application development. He also runs one of the nation’s fastest growing online registration sites for motorsports events DLBRACING.com. When he is not writing software, he races cars for fun. Listen to today’s episode where Chuck and Donovan talk about DevOps, Azure, Python, Angular, React, Vue, and much, much more! Show Topics: 1:41 – Chuck: The philosophies around DevOps. Just to give you an idea, I have been thinking about what I want to do with the podcasts. Freedom to work on what we want or freedom to work where we want, etc. Then that goes into things we don’t want to do, like fix bugs, etc. How does Microsoft DevOps to choose what they want to do? 2:37 – Guest: We want to automate as much as we can so the developer has less work. As a developer I want to commit code, do another task, rinse and repeating. Minutes and not even hours later then people are tweeting about the next best thing. Do what you want, where you want. Code any language you want. 4:15 – Chuck: What has changed? 4:19 – Guest: The branding changed. The name wasn’t the most favorite among the people. The word “visual” was a concerned. What we have noticed that Azure will let me run my code no matter where I am. If you want to run Python or others it can run in Azure. People didn’t need all of it. It comes with depositories, project management, and so much more! People could feel clumsy because there is so much stuff. We can streamline that now, and you can turn off that feature so you don’t have a heart attack. Maybe you are using us for some features not all of them – cool. 7:40 – Chuck: With deployments and other things – we don’t talk about the process for development a lot. 8:00 – Guest talks about the things that can help out with that. Guest: Our process is going to help guide you. We have that all built into the Azure tab feature. They feel and act differently. I tell all the people all the time that it’s brilliant stuff. There are 3 different templates. The templates actually change over the language. You don’t have to do mental math. 9:57 – Chuck: Just talking about the process. Which of these things we work on next when I’ve got a bug, or a ... 10:20 – Guest: The board system works like for example you have a bug. The steps to reproduce that bug, so that there is no question what go into this specific field. Let the anatomy of the feature do it itself! 11:54 – Chuck comments. 12:26 – Chuck: Back to the feature. Creating the user stories is a different process than X. 12:44 – Guest – You have a hierarchy then, right? Also what is really cool is we have case state management. I can click on this and I expect this to happen... These are actual tasks that I can run. 13:52 – Chuck: Once you have those tests written can you pull those into your CI? 14:00 – Guest: “Manual tests x0.” Guest dives into the question. 14:47 – I expect my team to write those test cases. The answer to your question is yes and no. We got so good at it that we found something that didn’t even exist, yet. 16:19 – Guest: As a developer it might be mind 16:29 – Chuck: I fixed this bug 4x, I wished I had CI to help me. 16:46 – Guest: You get a bug, then you fix a code, etc., etc. You don’t know that this original bug just came back. Fix it again. Am I in Groundhog Day? They are related to each other. You don’t have a unit test to tell you. When you get that very first bug – write a unit test. It will make you quicker at fixing it. A unit test you can write really fast over, and over, again. The test is passing. What do you do? Test it. Write the code to fix that unit test. You can see that how these relate to each other. That’s the beauty in it. 18:33 – Chuck: 90% of the unit tests I write – even 95% of the time they pass. It’s the 5% you would have no idea that it’s related. I can remember broad strokes of the code that I wrote, but 3 months down the road I can’t remember. 19:14 – Guest: If you are in a time crunch – I don’t have time for this unit test. Guest gives us a hypothetical situation to show how unit tests really can help. 20:25 – Make it muscle memory to unit test. I am a faster developer with the unit tests. 20:45 – Chuck: In the beginning it took forever. Now it’s just how I write software now. It guides my thought process. 21:06 – Guest: Yes! I agree. 22:00 – Guest: Don’t do the unit tests 22:10 – Chuck: Other place is when you write a new feature,...go through the process. Write unit tests for the things that you’ve touched. Expand your level of comfort. DevOps – we are talking about processes. Sounds like your DevOps is a flexible tool. Some people are looking for A METHOD. Like a business coach. Does Azure DevOps do that? 23:13 – Guest: Azure DevOps Projects. YoTeam. Note.js, Java and others are mentioned by the Guest. 25:00 – Code Badges’ Advertisement 25:48 – Chuck: I am curious – 2 test sweets for Angular or React or Vue. How does that work? 26:05 – Guest: So that is Jasmine or Mocha? So it really doesn’t matter. I’m a big fan of Mocha. It tests itself. I install local to my project alone – I can do it on any CI system in the world. YoTeam is not used in your pipeline. Install 2 parts – Yo and Generator – Team. Answer the questions and it’s awesome. I’ve done conferences in New Zealand. 28:37 – Chuck: Why would I go anywhere else? 28:44 – Guest: YoTeam  was the idea of... 28:57 – Check out Guest 29:02 – Guest: I want Donovan in a box. If I weren’t there then the show wouldn’t exist today. 29:40 – Chuck: Asks a question. 29:46 – Guest: 5 different verticals. Check out this timestamp to see what Donovan says the 5 different verticals are. Pipelines is 1 of the 5. 30:55 – Chuck: Yep – it works on my Mac. 31:04 – Guest: We also have Test Plant and Artifacts. 31:42 – Chuck: Can you resolve that on your developer machine? 31:46 – Guest: Yes, absolutely! There is my private repository and... 33:14 – Guest: *People not included in box.* 33:33 – Guest: It’s people driven. We guide you through the process. The value is the most important part and people is the hardest part, but once on 33:59 – Chuck: I am listening to this show and I want to try this out. I want a demo setup so I can show my boss. How do I show him that it works? 34:27 – Azure.com/devops – that is a great landing page. How can I get a demo going? You can say here is my account – and they can put a demo into your account. I would not do a demo that this is cool. We start you for free. Create an account. Let the CI be the proof. It’s your job to do this, because it will make you more efficient. You need me to be using these tools. 36:11 – Chuck comments. 36:17 – Guest: Say you are on a team of developers and love GitHub and things that integration is stupid, but how many people would disagree about... 38:02 – The reports prove it for themselves. 38:20 – Chuck: You can get started for free – so when do you have to start paying for it? 38:31 – Guest: Get 4 of your buddies and then need more people it’s $6 a month. 39:33 – Chuck adds in comments. If this is free? 39:43 – Guest goes into the details about plans and such for this tool.  40:17 – Chuck: How easy it is to migrate away from it? 40:22 – Guest: It’s GITHub. 40:30 – Chuck: People are looing data on their CI. 40:40 – Guest: You can comb that information there over the past 4 years but I don’t know if any system would let you export that history. 41:08 – Chuck: Yeah, you are right. 41:16 – Guest adds more into this topic. 41:25 – Chuck: Yeah it’s all into the machine. 41:38 – Chuck: Good deal. 41:43 – Guest: It’s like a drug. I would never leave it. I was using TFS before Microsoft. 42:08 – Chuck: Other question: continuous deployment. 42:56 – When I say every platform, I mean every platform: mobile devices, AWS, Azure, etc. Anything you can do from a command line you can do from our build and release system. PowerShell you don’t have to abandon it. 45:20 – Guest: I can’t remember what that tool is called! 45:33 – Guest: Anything you can do from a command line. Before firewall. Anything you want. 45:52 – Guest: I love my job because I get to help developers. 46:03 – Chuck: What do you think the biggest mistake people are doing? 46:12 – Guest: They are trying to do it all at once. Fix that one little thing. It’s instant value with no risks whatsoever. Go setup and it takes 15 minutes total. Now that we have this continuous build, now let’s go and deploy it. Don’t dream up what you think your pipeline should look like. Do one thing at a time. What hurts the most that it’s “buggy.” Let’s add that to the pipeline. It’s in your pipeline today, what hurts the most, and don’t do it all at once. 49:14 – Chuck: I thought you’d say: I don’t have the time. 49:25 – Guest: Say you work on it 15 minutes a day. 3 days in – 45 minutes in you have a CSI system that works forever. Yes I agree because people think they don’t “have the time.” 50:18 – Guest continues this conversation. How do you not have CI? Just install it – don’t ask. Just do the right thing. 50:40 – Chuck: I free-lanced and setup CI for my team. After a month, getting warned, we had a monitor up on the screen and it was either RED or GREEN. It was basically – hey this hurts and now we know. Either we are going to have pain or not have pain. 51:41 – Guest continues this conversation. Have pain – we should only have pain once or twice a year. Rollback. If you only have it every 6 months, that’s not too bad. The pain will motivate you. 52:40 – Azure.com/devops. Azure DevOps’ Twitter 53:22 – Picks! 53:30 – Advertisement – Get a Coder Job Links: Donovan Brown’s GitHub Donovan Brown’s Twitter Donovan Brown Donovan Brown – Channel 9 Donovan Brown – Microsoft Azure YoTeam Azure.com/devops GitHub Azure DevOps’ Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job course Picks: Charles Jet Blue Beta Testers Donovan YoTeam VSTeam Powershell Module

Panel: Charles Max Wood Joe Eames Aaron Frost Alyssa Nicoll Special Guests: Brian Love & Kevin Schuchard In this episode, the panelist talk with today’s special guests Brian Love & Kevin Schuchard! Brian and Kevin work at BrieBug – check out their employee profiles here! The panelist and guests talk about schematics, Angular, AST, and much more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:50 – Chuck: Hello! Our panel today is Joe, Aaron, Alyssa, and myself. We have two guests today, and we are going to talk about schematics. Let’s dive into that! 1:46 – Guest: Schematics is a library that is coming out of Angular and the Angular Team. The guest gives a definition of Angular Schematics. 2:26 – Alyssa. 2:31 – Kevin: The functionality that you are hoping for depends on the CLI that you are on. 3:00 – Alyssa: Sorry for diving into the juicy stuff but we forgot to talk about your introductions! 3:19 – The guests talk about their backgrounds and introduce themselves to the panel and the listeners. 3:49 – Alyssa. 3:54 – Guest continues. 4:21 – Panel: Crazy and busy! 4:28 – Alyssa. 4:31 – Kevin: I am Senior Developer, and I have worked here for a few years. I have had the opportunities to write some schematics for the company and some of my own schematics. 4:53 – Alyssa: Aren’t you so proud that you are a “Senior Developer”?! 5:10 – Guest and panelists go back-and-forth. 6:23 – Guests: We want people to be familiar with schematics and start their journey with schematics. 6:50 – Panel: It’s kind of trippy isn’t that right? 7:00 – Guest: Yeah there are hurdles to learning schematics at first – for sure. 7:22 – Alyssa: What is AST? 7:29 – Guest gives a definition of AST and goes into much detail about this. 10:00 – Alyssa: I think I understand, now, what AST is. Thanks. Alyssa asks the guests a question. 10:14 – Guest answers the question about AST. 10:51 – Guest continues. 11:27 – Panelist is talking about the AST and schematics. 12:03 – Guest: You can read the whole file and using the AST you can figure out where you went to enter the text. 12:25 – Alyssa asks a question. 12:28 – Guest: We are not the developers of schematics, but we are just here to share our knowledge. I want to be super clear here. 13:39 – Panelist talks about schematics, CLI, and AST. 14:18 – Guest: You don’t have to know all about AST and everything there is to know to get into it. You can build schematics w/o getting into AST. Just to be clear. 14:39 – Alyssa asks a follow-up question. 14:41 – Guest continues. 15:57 – Guest: AST has been around for a while – it’s not a new thing it’s kind of an old thing. Guest talks about tools (Code Shift) that Facebook has built that is related to this topic. 17:22 – Guest: Yeah AST has been around for a while. 17:28 – Alyssa asks a question about Code Shift. 17:36 – Guest. 18:21 – Panel and guest go back-and-forth. 19:51 – Alyssa: You said you really don’t need to get into AST to do schematics – right? (Yes.) Alyssa asks a question. 20:19 – Guest: There are two pieces with schematics and that’s adding of new files and you can decide which pieces of the templates you want to be compiled. 21:58 – Chuck: For schematics you mentioned you could drop strings in. Chuck asks a question. 22:29 – Guest answers the question with a hypothetical situation. 23:09 – Chuck: I read the article you wrote and I have a question about your article. Tell me about the tree? 23:29 – Guest talks about the tree or aka the host. 25:40 – Guest: The tree is a virtual kind of context and it’s not committing all of the changes to the file system. Whether that is adding, deleting, or updating these files. 26:10 – Chuck: Makes sense to me. 26:15 – Guest continues talking about schematics. 26:53 – Alyssa: Yeoman is a replacement for schematics? 27:05 – Guest: It’s a lightweight alternative.  27:33 – Advertisement: Angular Boot Camp 28:10 – Chuck: How does one build a schematic? 28:16 – Guest answers the question. 30:34 – Panel: What’s the latest thing you’ve built? Talk about that, please. 30:40 – Guest: It’s a schematic and took what we’ve learned to set you up for a starter project. It starts with a blank project. 32:57 – Panel: You are just talking some lessons learned and you are saying this is how Kevin says to do it. You’ve packaged that up 33:26 – Guest: Yep I have found things that work and there isn’t any magic but put these practices together and made a repository to help testing and making schematics. 33:55 – Panel and guests go back-and-forth. 34:20 – Chuck: Let’s say I’ve built this schematic and Frosty wants to share it with his friends. How do we do that? How do you share it? Is there some component that you’ve built? 35:06 – Guest: It depends on what you are doing with it. 36:14 – Chuck: For mass production, though? 36:25 – Guest: I think Chuck is wondering about discoverability. Guest continues and he mentions prettier, extensions, among other things. 37:18 – Guest: I think it’s my favorite about schematics and it’s Kevin’s. 37:40 – Guest. 38:20 – Guest continues talking about schematics and ng-conf. 38:57 – Guest talks about libraries. 40:12 – Chuck: Anything else? Do you NPM install it and it’s just there? 40:29 – Guest: There are 2 ways to go about it. 53:05 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly! Links: Vue jQuery Angular JavaScript Python React Cypress Yeoman Apache Groovy GitHub: prettier NG Conf Brian Love’s Website Kevin Schuchard’s LinkedIn BrieBug Blog Angular Schematics Tutorial Testing Schematics with a Sandbox + starter project GitHub: Schematic Starter Getting started blog post by Hans Schematics by Manfred Steyer Angular and Material CLI schematics 1 Angular and Material CLI schematics 2 AST Explorer Evening of Angular Example Schematic project with Sandbox: (Written by Kevin) https://github.com/briebug/jest-schematic https://github.com/schuchard/prettier-schematic https://github.com/briebug/ngrx-entity-schematic https://github.com/blove/schematics Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Picks: Joe Brian Love BrieBug Schematics NGConf. Minified Aaron Ice Fishing Smoking Trout Joe Eames as Dungeon Master for DND NPM JS Survey Charles Alexa Briefing EntreProgrammers.com KanBanflow Pomodoro Technique Kevin Angular Material Open Source Projects Brian Angular.io Visits on Twitter Angular Community Jesse Sanders An evening of Angular Event

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Kerri Miller This week on My Ruby Story, Chuck talks with Kerri Miller who is a developer who resides in Seattle! Chuck and Kerri talk about her background, how she got into programming, software, and much more. Check it out! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Get A Coder Job! 0:52 – Chuck: Hello! Our guest is Kerri Miller – say Hi! 1:00 – Guest: Hi! 1:06 – Chuck: Tell us who you are and where you work? 1:13 – Guest: I live in Seattle. 1:36 – Chuck: We had you on past episodes RR 191 and RR 261. Tell us about your work! 2:10 – Guest: I have been a remote-worker for about 5 years now.  2:30 – Chuck: Let’s focus on you and how you got into programming and what you’ve contributed into the community.  How did you get into programming? 2:45 – Guest: I had early access to computers. We also had the Thermal Printer! I went into theater and dance and then came back into programming. Kerri talks about sound boards that were using computers through her art world. 4:20 – Chuck: I love how people come from different backgrounds. 5:01 – Guest: Yeah you need to have other skillsets outside of being a computer programmer. What do you bring in and what do you have at the very beginning of your career and then you fill in those blanks as you go along. 5:33 – Chuck: Yep exactly. 5:47 – Guest: I am interested to see how my stage career helps my developer career! 7:35 – Chuck. 7:39 – Guest: Some people need walk-up music. 7:51 – Chuck: How did you get into Ruby? 8:00 – Guest: I was the only person that had heard about the Internet, so that’s how I got the job! I went to Barnes & Noble and read books; kids: that is an actual place! 9:24 – Chuck: You are still using Ruby right? 9:26 – Guest: Yes I am! I have explored GO and other languages, too, b/c that helps my skills with Ruby. 10:14 – Chuck: What made you switch? How do you decide to make that switch? 10:26 – Guest: This book really helped me: “Why’s (Poignant) Guide to Ruby.” It invigorated my love for programming. 11:15 – Chuck: How long ago was that? 11:20 – Guest: About 7 years ago. 11:37 – Chuck: Some of the things you’ve done is conference organizing and speaking. Anything else? 11:50 – Guest answers the question. 13:17 – Chuck: What were your favorite talks to give and where? 13:30 – Guest: It really is hard to choose. I liked the one in Bath, UK last year: “Is Ruby Dead?” 15:00 – Chuck: Where do you see Ruby going? What’s the future like for Ruby? 15:10 – Guest: I think there are neat things that are happening in Ruby 3. 16:08 – Chuck: What other conferences are you involved with? 16:14 – Guest: Open Source & Feelings. (The guest goes into detail about what this conference has to offer!) 17:36 – Chuck: What should I be looking for there at CES (2019)? 17:52 – Guest answers. 18:39 – Guest: I have 6 Echos & Alexas in the house – do I need those many – probably not. 19:21 – Chuck: I think the same thing about giving / not giving my fingerprint to the government vs. Apple. 19:43 – Guest. 20:06 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 20:10 – Guest: If you have a problem with Ruby – I help with the Q&A and bug-support. Working on 2019 conferences, too! 20:43 – Chuck: Picks! 20:50 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: Ruby Elixir Rails Rust Python PHP RR 191 Episode with Kerri Miller RR 261 Episode with Kerri Miller Kerri Miller’s GitHub Kerri Miller’s Twitter Kerri Miller’s Website Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books Picks: Kerri Motorcycle-riding Bear app Chuck Marathon – St. George Utah – October 5th Friend – John Sonmez Garmin Watch V.02 McKirdy Trained

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Sharon DiOrio This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Sharon DiOrio who is a lead software engineer at Achievement Network (ANet) and lives in Massachusetts! Chuck and Sharon talk about how she got into programming, her education, career highlights, and more! Check it out. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:41 – Chuck: Say “hello!” You were on episode 2 back in the day! 1:16 – Chuck: Can you tell people what you are up to? 1:19 – Sharon: The Angular landscape has changed quite a bit in the past 4 years. I am still using Angular! 1:37 – Chuck: It’s nice to hear people’s backgrounds and their thought process. Let’s talk about your story. To start out how did you get into programming? 2:03 – Sharon: I have a Bachelor’s of Fine Arts. The web wasn’t a thing, yet, and it wasn’t an option. 4:04 – Chuck: How did you go from there to Angular and JavaScript? 4:12 – Sharon: I have a soft spot in my heart for Code Fusion. I did Code Fusion and PHP and that paid the bills for a long time. In the mid-2000’s that some of this stuff was going away and the idea of “old is new.” What is going to be my evolution of a developer? The frameworks (at this time) were starting to mature. 8:01 – Chuck: You run an Angular Meetup, so how did that get started?  8:05 – Sharon shares her story. 9:25 – Chuck: I would like to find a group that does this or that – and people find their niche and get together. If it grows great – if not then you begin some great friendships. I would like room for more intimate Meetups. 10:18 – Chuck. 10:23 – Sharon. 10:27 – Chuck: You spoke at NG-Conf in 2014 and what are your tips for people who want to speak at these conferences. 10:50 – Sharon: Get experience talking in front of large audiences before the ACTUAL conference! Also, start with Meetups! 12:29 – Chuck: Just the practice of building good habits and making sure that you are really prepared. Don’t they offer coaching now? 12:45 – Sharon: Yep! 12:53 – Chuck: What other things have you done with Angular? 13:01 – Sharon: I have been mostly in applications. Then I moved into educational technology. 13:55 – Chuck: Yep I identify with that a lot – getting a better career, making a better life for yourself, etc. 14:15 – Sharon: Yep! 15:34 – Chuck: I have seen things like Common Core and seeing what my kids are doing in school. 16:00 – Sharon: Most of the criticisms that people have about Common Core are... 16:35 – Sharon: I have been working in the educational space, too, yes! I have been here for 3 years now and I have “tenure” in technology. 17:18 – Chuck: What are the things that you are most proud of? 17:21 – Sharon answers the question. 19:37 – Chuck: We have shows on React, Angular and others. It’s interesting to see how people are assessing these things. 19:56 – Sharon: Yeah the landscaping is so different from not that long ago! 20:10 – Chuck. 21:03 – Sharon: Yeah our management is using version 6. I am going to do it and not tell them. 21:35 – Chuck: Anything else that you want to shout-out about? 21:37 – Sharon: How you get answers to questions will shift in your life. Learning how to ask a question well is underestimated – it’s an art. What to provide, so you know exactly what to provide to him/her. 22:21 – Chuck: Yeah my brothers 22:47 – Sharon: My father told me the same thing: you need to speak well and write well. No matter what field you are going into. Also, empathy and soft skills are great skills to have, too. 23:35 – Chuck: It is easy to work on the technology b/c it’s either right or wrong. 23:48 – Sharon: I would love to see people wanting those skills within job posts. 24:20 – Chuck: I agree! It makes a big difference. Let’s do picks! 24:35  – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv JSJ 335 episode AiA 002 episode Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Chuck Interview Cake – use our code, please. Marathon (John Sonmez, friend) – St. George Marathon McKirdy Trained Garmin Watches Sharon Brave Browser DevChat TV Programming for people who didn’t go the traditional way!

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Kerri Miller This week on My Ruby Story, Chuck talks with Kerri Miller who is a developer who resides in Seattle! Chuck and Kerri talk about her background, how she got into programming, software, and much more. Check it out! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Get A Coder Job! 0:52 – Chuck: Hello! Our guest is Kerri Miller – say Hi! 1:00 – Guest: Hi! 1:06 – Chuck: Tell us who you are and where you work? 1:13 – Guest: I live in Seattle. 1:36 – Chuck: We had you on past episodes RR 191 and RR 261. Tell us about your work! 2:10 – Guest: I have been a remote-worker for about 5 years now.  2:30 – Chuck: Let’s focus on you and how you got into programming and what you’ve contributed into the community.  How did you get into programming? 2:45 – Guest: I had early access to computers. We also had the Thermal Printer! I went into theater and dance and then came back into programming. Kerri talks about sound boards that were using computers through her art world. 4:20 – Chuck: I love how people come from different backgrounds. 5:01 – Guest: Yeah you need to have other skillsets outside of being a computer programmer. What do you bring in and what do you have at the very beginning of your career and then you fill in those blanks as you go along. 5:33 – Chuck: Yep exactly. 5:47 – Guest: I am interested to see how my stage career helps my developer career! 7:35 – Chuck. 7:39 – Guest: Some people need walk-up music. 7:51 – Chuck: How did you get into Ruby? 8:00 – Guest: I was the only person that had heard about the Internet, so that’s how I got the job! I went to Barnes & Noble and read books; kids: that is an actual place! 9:24 – Chuck: You are still using Ruby right? 9:26 – Guest: Yes I am! I have explored GO and other languages, too, b/c that helps my skills with Ruby. 10:14 – Chuck: What made you switch? How do you decide to make that switch? 10:26 – Guest: This book really helped me: “Why’s (Poignant) Guide to Ruby.” It invigorated my love for programming. 11:15 – Chuck: How long ago was that? 11:20 – Guest: About 7 years ago. 11:37 – Chuck: Some of the things you’ve done is conference organizing and speaking. Anything else? 11:50 – Guest answers the question. 13:17 – Chuck: What were your favorite talks to give and where? 13:30 – Guest: It really is hard to choose. I liked the one in Bath, UK last year: “Is Ruby Dead?” 15:00 – Chuck: Where do you see Ruby going? What’s the future like for Ruby? 15:10 – Guest: I think there are neat things that are happening in Ruby 3. 16:08 – Chuck: What other conferences are you involved with? 16:14 – Guest: Open Source & Feelings. (The guest goes into detail about what this conference has to offer!) 17:36 – Chuck: What should I be looking for there at CES (2019)? 17:52 – Guest answers. 18:39 – Guest: I have 6 Echos & Alexas in the house – do I need those many – probably not. 19:21 – Chuck: I think the same thing about giving / not giving my fingerprint to the government vs. Apple. 19:43 – Guest. 20:06 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 20:10 – Guest: If you have a problem with Ruby – I help with the Q&A and bug-support. Working on 2019 conferences, too! 20:43 – Chuck: Picks! 20:50 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: Ruby Elixir Rails Rust Python PHP RR 191 Episode with Kerri Miller RR 261 Episode with Kerri Miller Kerri Miller’s GitHub Kerri Miller’s Twitter Kerri Miller’s Website Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books Picks: Kerri Motorcycle-riding Bear app Chuck Marathon – St. George Utah – October 5th Friend – John Sonmez Garmin Watch V.02 McKirdy Trained

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Sharon DiOrio This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Sharon DiOrio who is a lead software engineer at Achievement Network (ANet) and lives in Massachusetts! Chuck and Sharon talk about how she got into programming, her education, career highlights, and more! Check it out. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:41 – Chuck: Say “hello!” You were on episode 2 back in the day! 1:16 – Chuck: Can you tell people what you are up to? 1:19 – Sharon: The Angular landscape has changed quite a bit in the past 4 years. I am still using Angular! 1:37 – Chuck: It’s nice to hear people’s backgrounds and their thought process. Let’s talk about your story. To start out how did you get into programming? 2:03 – Sharon: I have a Bachelor’s of Fine Arts. The web wasn’t a thing, yet, and it wasn’t an option. 4:04 – Chuck: How did you go from there to Angular and JavaScript? 4:12 – Sharon: I have a soft spot in my heart for Code Fusion. I did Code Fusion and PHP and that paid the bills for a long time. In the mid-2000’s that some of this stuff was going away and the idea of “old is new.” What is going to be my evolution of a developer? The frameworks (at this time) were starting to mature. 8:01 – Chuck: You run an Angular Meetup, so how did that get started?  8:05 – Sharon shares her story. 9:25 – Chuck: I would like to find a group that does this or that – and people find their niche and get together. If it grows great – if not then you begin some great friendships. I would like room for more intimate Meetups. 10:18 – Chuck. 10:23 – Sharon. 10:27 – Chuck: You spoke at NG-Conf in 2014 and what are your tips for people who want to speak at these conferences. 10:50 – Sharon: Get experience talking in front of large audiences before the ACTUAL conference! Also, start with Meetups! 12:29 – Chuck: Just the practice of building good habits and making sure that you are really prepared. Don’t they offer coaching now? 12:45 – Sharon: Yep! 12:53 – Chuck: What other things have you done with Angular? 13:01 – Sharon: I have been mostly in applications. Then I moved into educational technology. 13:55 – Chuck: Yep I identify with that a lot – getting a better career, making a better life for yourself, etc. 14:15 – Sharon: Yep! 15:34 – Chuck: I have seen things like Common Core and seeing what my kids are doing in school. 16:00 – Sharon: Most of the criticisms that people have about Common Core are... 16:35 – Sharon: I have been working in the educational space, too, yes! I have been here for 3 years now and I have “tenure” in technology. 17:18 – Chuck: What are the things that you are most proud of? 17:21 – Sharon answers the question. 19:37 – Chuck: We have shows on React, Angular and others. It’s interesting to see how people are assessing these things. 19:56 – Sharon: Yeah the landscaping is so different from not that long ago! 20:10 – Chuck. 21:03 – Sharon: Yeah our management is using version 6. I am going to do it and not tell them. 21:35 – Chuck: Anything else that you want to shout-out about? 21:37 – Sharon: How you get answers to questions will shift in your life. Learning how to ask a question well is underestimated – it’s an art. What to provide, so you know exactly what to provide to him/her. 22:21 – Chuck: Yeah my brothers 22:47 – Sharon: My father told me the same thing: you need to speak well and write well. No matter what field you are going into. Also, empathy and soft skills are great skills to have, too. 23:35 – Chuck: It is easy to work on the technology b/c it’s either right or wrong. 23:48 – Sharon: I would love to see people wanting those skills within job posts. 24:20 – Chuck: I agree! It makes a big difference. Let’s do picks! 24:35  – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv JSJ 335 episode AiA 002 episode Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Chuck Interview Cake – use our code, please. Marathon (John Sonmez, friend) – St. George Marathon McKirdy Trained Garmin Watches Sharon Brave Browser DevChat TV Programming for people who didn’t go the traditional way!

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Sharon DiOrio This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Sharon DiOrio who is a lead software engineer at Achievement Network (ANet) and lives in Massachusetts! Chuck and Sharon talk about how she got into programming, her education, career highlights, and more! Check it out. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:41 – Chuck: Say “hello!” You were on episode 2 back in the day! 1:16 – Chuck: Can you tell people what you are up to? 1:19 – Sharon: The Angular landscape has changed quite a bit in the past 4 years. I am still using Angular! 1:37 – Chuck: It’s nice to hear people’s backgrounds and their thought process. Let’s talk about your story. To start out how did you get into programming? 2:03 – Sharon: I have a Bachelor’s of Fine Arts. The web wasn’t a thing, yet, and it wasn’t an option. 4:04 – Chuck: How did you go from there to Angular and JavaScript? 4:12 – Sharon: I have a soft spot in my heart for Code Fusion. I did Code Fusion and PHP and that paid the bills for a long time. In the mid-2000’s that some of this stuff was going away and the idea of “old is new.” What is going to be my evolution of a developer? The frameworks (at this time) were starting to mature. 8:01 – Chuck: You run an Angular Meetup, so how did that get started?  8:05 – Sharon shares her story. 9:25 – Chuck: I would like to find a group that does this or that – and people find their niche and get together. If it grows great – if not then you begin some great friendships. I would like room for more intimate Meetups. 10:18 – Chuck. 10:23 – Sharon. 10:27 – Chuck: You spoke at NG-Conf in 2014 and what are your tips for people who want to speak at these conferences. 10:50 – Sharon: Get experience talking in front of large audiences before the ACTUAL conference! Also, start with Meetups! 12:29 – Chuck: Just the practice of building good habits and making sure that you are really prepared. Don’t they offer coaching now? 12:45 – Sharon: Yep! 12:53 – Chuck: What other things have you done with Angular? 13:01 – Sharon: I have been mostly in applications. Then I moved into educational technology. 13:55 – Chuck: Yep I identify with that a lot – getting a better career, making a better life for yourself, etc. 14:15 – Sharon: Yep! 15:34 – Chuck: I have seen things like Common Core and seeing what my kids are doing in school. 16:00 – Sharon: Most of the criticisms that people have about Common Core are... 16:35 – Sharon: I have been working in the educational space, too, yes! I have been here for 3 years now and I have “tenure” in technology. 17:18 – Chuck: What are the things that you are most proud of? 17:21 – Sharon answers the question. 19:37 – Chuck: We have shows on React, Angular and others. It’s interesting to see how people are assessing these things. 19:56 – Sharon: Yeah the landscaping is so different from not that long ago! 20:10 – Chuck. 21:03 – Sharon: Yeah our management is using version 6. I am going to do it and not tell them. 21:35 – Chuck: Anything else that you want to shout-out about? 21:37 – Sharon: How you get answers to questions will shift in your life. Learning how to ask a question well is underestimated – it’s an art. What to provide, so you know exactly what to provide to him/her. 22:21 – Chuck: Yeah my brothers 22:47 – Sharon: My father told me the same thing: you need to speak well and write well. No matter what field you are going into. Also, empathy and soft skills are great skills to have, too. 23:35 – Chuck: It is easy to work on the technology b/c it’s either right or wrong. 23:48 – Sharon: I would love to see people wanting those skills within job posts. 24:20 – Chuck: I agree! It makes a big difference. Let’s do picks! 24:35  – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv JSJ 335 episode AiA 002 episode Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Chuck Interview Cake – use our code, please. Marathon (John Sonmez, friend) – St. George Marathon McKirdy Trained Garmin Watches Sharon Brave Browser DevChat TV Programming for people who didn’t go the traditional way!

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Kerri Miller This week on My Ruby Story, Chuck talks with Kerri Miller who is a developer who resides in Seattle! Chuck and Kerri talk about her background, how she got into programming, software, and much more. Check it out! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Get A Coder Job! 0:52 – Chuck: Hello! Our guest is Kerri Miller – say Hi! 1:00 – Guest: Hi! 1:06 – Chuck: Tell us who you are and where you work? 1:13 – Guest: I live in Seattle. 1:36 – Chuck: We had you on past episodes RR 191 and RR 261. Tell us about your work! 2:10 – Guest: I have been a remote-worker for about 5 years now.  2:30 – Chuck: Let’s focus on you and how you got into programming and what you’ve contributed into the community.  How did you get into programming? 2:45 – Guest: I had early access to computers. We also had the Thermal Printer! I went into theater and dance and then came back into programming. Kerri talks about sound boards that were using computers through her art world. 4:20 – Chuck: I love how people come from different backgrounds. 5:01 – Guest: Yeah you need to have other skillsets outside of being a computer programmer. What do you bring in and what do you have at the very beginning of your career and then you fill in those blanks as you go along. 5:33 – Chuck: Yep exactly. 5:47 – Guest: I am interested to see how my stage career helps my developer career! 7:35 – Chuck. 7:39 – Guest: Some people need walk-up music. 7:51 – Chuck: How did you get into Ruby? 8:00 – Guest: I was the only person that had heard about the Internet, so that’s how I got the job! I went to Barnes & Noble and read books; kids: that is an actual place! 9:24 – Chuck: You are still using Ruby right? 9:26 – Guest: Yes I am! I have explored GO and other languages, too, b/c that helps my skills with Ruby. 10:14 – Chuck: What made you switch? How do you decide to make that switch? 10:26 – Guest: This book really helped me: “Why’s (Poignant) Guide to Ruby.” It invigorated my love for programming. 11:15 – Chuck: How long ago was that? 11:20 – Guest: About 7 years ago. 11:37 – Chuck: Some of the things you’ve done is conference organizing and speaking. Anything else? 11:50 – Guest answers the question. 13:17 – Chuck: What were your favorite talks to give and where? 13:30 – Guest: It really is hard to choose. I liked the one in Bath, UK last year: “Is Ruby Dead?” 15:00 – Chuck: Where do you see Ruby going? What’s the future like for Ruby? 15:10 – Guest: I think there are neat things that are happening in Ruby 3. 16:08 – Chuck: What other conferences are you involved with? 16:14 – Guest: Open Source & Feelings. (The guest goes into detail about what this conference has to offer!) 17:36 – Chuck: What should I be looking for there at CES (2019)? 17:52 – Guest answers. 18:39 – Guest: I have 6 Echos & Alexas in the house – do I need those many – probably not. 19:21 – Chuck: I think the same thing about giving / not giving my fingerprint to the government vs. Apple. 19:43 – Guest. 20:06 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 20:10 – Guest: If you have a problem with Ruby – I help with the Q&A and bug-support. Working on 2019 conferences, too! 20:43 – Chuck: Picks! 20:50 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: Ruby Elixir Rails Rust Python PHP RR 191 Episode with Kerri Miller RR 261 Episode with Kerri Miller Kerri Miller’s GitHub Kerri Miller’s Twitter Kerri Miller’s Website Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books Picks: Kerri Motorcycle-riding Bear app Chuck Marathon – St. George Utah – October 5th Friend – John Sonmez Garmin Watch V.02 McKirdy Trained

Panel: Chris Fritz Charles Max Wood In this episode, the panel consists of Chris and Charles who talk about developer freedom. Chuck talks about his new show called The DevRev. The guys also talk about time management, answering e-mails, being self-employed, and their goals/hopes/dreams that they want to achieve in life. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement – Kendo UI 0:30 – Chuck: Hi! Today our panel is Chris and myself. My new show is The DevRev. There is a lot of aspect of our job that boil down to freedom. Figure out what they like to do and eliminate the things that they don’t like to do. I think it will be 5x a week and I will have a guest every week. What does freedom mean to you? What is your ideal coding situation where you don’t starve? 2:10 – Chris: Let me take a step-back. Why I got into coding it was even before that and it was education. I wanted to work with schools and not necessarily tied to only one school. As a programmer I cannot be asked to do things that I don’t agree with. 3:21 – Chuck: A lot of this thought-process came up b/c of my initial steps into my self-employment. I wanted to go to my son’s activities. I saw freelancing as an option and then had to do that b/c I got laid-off. I hate being told what to do. I have an HOA in my neighborhood and I hate it. They tell me when and how to mow my lawn. This is how I operate it. I hate that they tell me to mow my lawn. I want to talk to people who I want to talk to – that’s my idea of freedom. Everyone’s different idea of what “freedom” is will be different. 5:36 – Chris: I want more time to create more free stuff. Chris talks about DEV experience. 6:28 – Chuck: How did you get to that point of figuring out what you want to do? 6:44 – Chris: I still am figuring that out. I do have a lot of opportunities that are really exciting for me. It’s deciding what I like at that moment and choosing what I want to do vs. not what is going to wear me down. I don’t want to die with regret. There is a distinction between bad tired and good tired. You weren’t true to what you thought was right – and so you don’t settle easy. You toss and turn. I want to end with “good tired” both for the end of the day and for the end of my life. 8:00 – Chuck: I agree with that and I really identify with that. 8:44 – Chris: How do you measure yourself? 8:54 – Chuck: It’s hard to quantify it in only one idea. It’s hard to measure. I list out 5 things I need to do to get me closer to my [one] big goal. I have to get those 5 things done. Most of the time I can make it and I keep grinding on it before I can be done. 9:51 – Chris: My bar is pretty low. Is there more joy / more happiness in the world today in the world b/c of what I’ve done today? I know I will make mistakes in code – and that hurts, no day will be perfect. I try to have a net positive affect everyday. 10:53 – Chris: I can fall easily into depression if I have too many bad days back-to-back. 11:03 – Chuck: I agree and I have to take time off if that happens. 11:13 – Chris talks about open source work and he mentions HOPE IN SOURCE, also Babel. 12:23 – Chuck: When I got to church and there is this component of being together and working towards the same goals. It’s more than just community. There is a real – something in common that we have. 12:57 – Chris: Do you think it’s similar to open source? 13:05 – Chuck: You can watch a podcast in-lieu of an actual in-person sermon. In my church community it’s – Building Each Other Up. It’s not the same for when I contribute to open source. 13:43 – Chris: I ask myself: Is it of value? If I were to die would that work help progress the humankind? By the time I die - I will be completely useless b/c everything in my head is out there in other peoples’ heads. 14:35 – Chuck: When I am gone – I want someone to step into my void and continue that. These shows should be able to go on even if I am not around. I want to make sure that these shows can keep going. 15:48 – Chris: How can we build each other up? We want to have opportunities to grow. I try to provide that for members of the team and vice versa. The amount of respect that I have seen in my communities is quite amazing. I admire Thorsten on the Vue team a lot. (Thorsten’s Twitter.) He talked about compassion and how to communicate with each other and code with compassion. That’s better community and better software. You are forced to thin from multiple perspectives. You want to learn from these various perspectives. 17:44 – Chuck: The ideas behind the camaraderie are great. 17:56 – Chris: And Sarah Drasner! 18:38 – Chuck: She probably feels fulfilled when she helps you out (Sarah). 18:54 – Chuck: We all have to look for those opportunities and take them! 19:08 – Chuck: We have been talking about personal fulfillment. For me writing some awesome code in Vue there is Boiler Plate or running the tests. 19:52 – Chuck: What tools light you up? 20:02 – Chris: I am a bit of a weirdo. I feel pretty good when I am hitting myself against a wall for 9 hours. I like feeling obsessed about something and defeating it. I love it. 21:21 – Chuck: The things that make you bang your head against the wall is awful for me. I like writing code that helps someone. (Chris: I like the challenge.) We will be charged up for different things. You like the challenge and it empowers me to help others out. 22:21 – Chris: I like learning more about how something works. I want to save people a lot of work. There has to be a social connection or I will have a hard time even attempting it. 22:52 – Chris: I also play video games where there are no social connections. I played the Witness a few months ago and I loved the puzzles. 23:45 – Chuck: What other tools are you using? 23:57 – Chris: Webpack is the best took for creating the ideal development scenario. 24:47 – Chuck mentions Boiler Plate. 25:00 – Chris: It was built to help large teams and/or large applications.  I built some other projects like: Hello Vue Components & (with John Papa) Vue Monolith Example. 27:07 – Chuck: Anything else that you consider to be “freeing?” 27:13 – Chris: I like working from home. I like having my routines – they make me happy and productive. Having full control over that makes me happy. The only thing I have is my wife and my cat. 28:12 – Chuck: Yeah I don’t miss driving through traffic. 28:44 – Chris: I don’t like to be around people all day. 30:40 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 31:05 – Chris: Online I get a couple dozen people reaching out to me for different things: completely out-of-the-blue. I want to respond to most of those people but... 33:12 – Chuck: If it’s not on my calendar it won’t happen. I will get those e-mails that can be very time consuming. 33:35 – Chris: When they are asking for something “simple” – it’s not always simple. 34:30 – Chuck: I want to help everybody and that can be a problem. 35:02 – Chris: They are reaching out to me and I want to help. 35:56 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 36:18 – Chris: How do you figure out how to write a short enough response to the email – to only do 30 minutes? 36:44 – Chuck: Can I answer it in one minute? Nope – so it will go into another pile later in the week. I’ve replied saying: Here is my short-answer and for the long-answer see these references. I star those e-mails that will take too long to respond. 37:50 – Chris and Chuck go back-and-forth. 38:06 – Chuck: Your question is so good – here is the link to the blog that I wrote. 38:37 – Chris: I want to document to point people HERE to past blogs that I’ve written or to someone else’s blog. I feel guilty when I have to delegate. 39:35 – Chuck: I don’t have a problem delegating b/c that’s why I’m paying them. Everyone has his or her own role.  40:40 – Chris: Yeah that makes sense when it’s their job. 41:30 – Chuck: I know working together as a team will free me up in my areas of excellence. 41:49 – Chris: I am having a hard time with this right now. 43:36 – Chuck: We are looking for someone to fill this role and this is the job description. This way you can be EXCELLENT at what you do. You aren’t being pulled too thin. 44:19 – Chris: I have been trying to delegate more. 45:04 – Chuck: Yeah I have been trying to do more with my business, too. What do I want to do in the community? What is my focus? What is my mission and values for the business? Then you knock it out of the park! 45:51 – Chris: As a teacher it is really helpful and really not helpful. You are leading and shaping their experiences. You don’t have options to delegate. 46:27 – Chuck: Yeah my mother is a math teacher. 46:37 – Chuck: Yeah she has 10 kids, so she helps to delegate with force. She is the department head for mathematics and she does delegate some things. It’s you to teach the course. 47:18 – Chris: What promoted you to start this podcast? Is it more personal? 47:30 – Chuck talks about why he is starting this new podcast. 48:10 – Chuck: My business coach said to me: write a mission statement. When I did that things started having clarity for me. Chuck talks about the plan for the DevRev! 55:20 – Chris: I am looking forward to it! 55:34 – Chuck: It will be recorded via video through YouTube, too, in addition to iTunes (hopefully). 55:52 – Chris & Chuck: Picks! 55:58 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue React JavaScript C# C++ C++ Programming / Memory Management Angular Blazor JavaScript DevChat TV VueCLI Boiler Plate Hello Vue Components Vue Monolith Example Thorsten’s Twitter Sarah’s Twitter Ben Hong’s Twitter Jacob Schatz’ Twitter Vue Vixens The DevRev Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Get A Coder Job! Picks: Chris Vue Vixens Charles repurpose.io MFCEO Project Podcast Game - Test Version

Panel: Chris Fritz Charles Max Wood In this episode, the panel consists of Chris and Charles who talk about developer freedom. Chuck talks about his new show called The DevRev. The guys also talk about time management, answering e-mails, being self-employed, and their goals/hopes/dreams that they want to achieve in life. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement – Kendo UI 0:30 – Chuck: Hi! Today our panel is Chris and myself. My new show is The DevRev. There is a lot of aspect of our job that boil down to freedom. Figure out what they like to do and eliminate the things that they don’t like to do. I think it will be 5x a week and I will have a guest every week. What does freedom mean to you? What is your ideal coding situation where you don’t starve? 2:10 – Chris: Let me take a step-back. Why I got into coding it was even before that and it was education. I wanted to work with schools and not necessarily tied to only one school. As a programmer I cannot be asked to do things that I don’t agree with. 3:21 – Chuck: A lot of this thought-process came up b/c of my initial steps into my self-employment. I wanted to go to my son’s activities. I saw freelancing as an option and then had to do that b/c I got laid-off. I hate being told what to do. I have an HOA in my neighborhood and I hate it. They tell me when and how to mow my lawn. This is how I operate it. I hate that they tell me to mow my lawn. I want to talk to people who I want to talk to – that’s my idea of freedom. Everyone’s different idea of what “freedom” is will be different. 5:36 – Chris: I want more time to create more free stuff. Chris talks about DEV experience. 6:28 – Chuck: How did you get to that point of figuring out what you want to do? 6:44 – Chris: I still am figuring that out. I do have a lot of opportunities that are really exciting for me. It’s deciding what I like at that moment and choosing what I want to do vs. not what is going to wear me down. I don’t want to die with regret. There is a distinction between bad tired and good tired. You weren’t true to what you thought was right – and so you don’t settle easy. You toss and turn. I want to end with “good tired” both for the end of the day and for the end of my life. 8:00 – Chuck: I agree with that and I really identify with that. 8:44 – Chris: How do you measure yourself? 8:54 – Chuck: It’s hard to quantify it in only one idea. It’s hard to measure. I list out 5 things I need to do to get me closer to my [one] big goal. I have to get those 5 things done. Most of the time I can make it and I keep grinding on it before I can be done. 9:51 – Chris: My bar is pretty low. Is there more joy / more happiness in the world today in the world b/c of what I’ve done today? I know I will make mistakes in code – and that hurts, no day will be perfect. I try to have a net positive affect everyday. 10:53 – Chris: I can fall easily into depression if I have too many bad days back-to-back. 11:03 – Chuck: I agree and I have to take time off if that happens. 11:13 – Chris talks about open source work and he mentions HOPE IN SOURCE, also Babel. 12:23 – Chuck: When I got to church and there is this component of being together and working towards the same goals. It’s more than just community. There is a real – something in common that we have. 12:57 – Chris: Do you think it’s similar to open source? 13:05 – Chuck: You can watch a podcast in-lieu of an actual in-person sermon. In my church community it’s – Building Each Other Up. It’s not the same for when I contribute to open source. 13:43 – Chris: I ask myself: Is it of value? If I were to die would that work help progress the humankind? By the time I die - I will be completely useless b/c everything in my head is out there in other peoples’ heads. 14:35 – Chuck: When I am gone – I want someone to step into my void and continue that. These shows should be able to go on even if I am not around. I want to make sure that these shows can keep going. 15:48 – Chris: How can we build each other up? We want to have opportunities to grow. I try to provide that for members of the team and vice versa. The amount of respect that I have seen in my communities is quite amazing. I admire Thorsten on the Vue team a lot. (Thorsten’s Twitter.) He talked about compassion and how to communicate with each other and code with compassion. That’s better community and better software. You are forced to thin from multiple perspectives. You want to learn from these various perspectives. 17:44 – Chuck: The ideas behind the camaraderie are great. 17:56 – Chris: And Sarah Drasner! 18:38 – Chuck: She probably feels fulfilled when she helps you out (Sarah). 18:54 – Chuck: We all have to look for those opportunities and take them! 19:08 – Chuck: We have been talking about personal fulfillment. For me writing some awesome code in Vue there is Boiler Plate or running the tests. 19:52 – Chuck: What tools light you up? 20:02 – Chris: I am a bit of a weirdo. I feel pretty good when I am hitting myself against a wall for 9 hours. I like feeling obsessed about something and defeating it. I love it. 21:21 – Chuck: The things that make you bang your head against the wall is awful for me. I like writing code that helps someone. (Chris: I like the challenge.) We will be charged up for different things. You like the challenge and it empowers me to help others out. 22:21 – Chris: I like learning more about how something works. I want to save people a lot of work. There has to be a social connection or I will have a hard time even attempting it. 22:52 – Chris: I also play video games where there are no social connections. I played the Witness a few months ago and I loved the puzzles. 23:45 – Chuck: What other tools are you using? 23:57 – Chris: Webpack is the best took for creating the ideal development scenario. 24:47 – Chuck mentions Boiler Plate. 25:00 – Chris: It was built to help large teams and/or large applications.  I built some other projects like: Hello Vue Components & (with John Papa) Vue Monolith Example. 27:07 – Chuck: Anything else that you consider to be “freeing?” 27:13 – Chris: I like working from home. I like having my routines – they make me happy and productive. Having full control over that makes me happy. The only thing I have is my wife and my cat. 28:12 – Chuck: Yeah I don’t miss driving through traffic. 28:44 – Chris: I don’t like to be around people all day. 30:40 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 31:05 – Chris: Online I get a couple dozen people reaching out to me for different things: completely out-of-the-blue. I want to respond to most of those people but... 33:12 – Chuck: If it’s not on my calendar it won’t happen. I will get those e-mails that can be very time consuming. 33:35 – Chris: When they are asking for something “simple” – it’s not always simple. 34:30 – Chuck: I want to help everybody and that can be a problem. 35:02 – Chris: They are reaching out to me and I want to help. 35:56 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 36:18 – Chris: How do you figure out how to write a short enough response to the email – to only do 30 minutes? 36:44 – Chuck: Can I answer it in one minute? Nope – so it will go into another pile later in the week. I’ve replied saying: Here is my short-answer and for the long-answer see these references. I star those e-mails that will take too long to respond. 37:50 – Chris and Chuck go back-and-forth. 38:06 – Chuck: Your question is so good – here is the link to the blog that I wrote. 38:37 – Chris: I want to document to point people HERE to past blogs that I’ve written or to someone else’s blog. I feel guilty when I have to delegate. 39:35 – Chuck: I don’t have a problem delegating b/c that’s why I’m paying them. Everyone has his or her own role.  40:40 – Chris: Yeah that makes sense when it’s their job. 41:30 – Chuck: I know working together as a team will free me up in my areas of excellence. 41:49 – Chris: I am having a hard time with this right now. 43:36 – Chuck: We are looking for someone to fill this role and this is the job description. This way you can be EXCELLENT at what you do. You aren’t being pulled too thin. 44:19 – Chris: I have been trying to delegate more. 45:04 – Chuck: Yeah I have been trying to do more with my business, too. What do I want to do in the community? What is my focus? What is my mission and values for the business? Then you knock it out of the park! 45:51 – Chris: As a teacher it is really helpful and really not helpful. You are leading and shaping their experiences. You don’t have options to delegate. 46:27 – Chuck: Yeah my mother is a math teacher. 46:37 – Chuck: Yeah she has 10 kids, so she helps to delegate with force. She is the department head for mathematics and she does delegate some things. It’s you to teach the course. 47:18 – Chris: What promoted you to start this podcast? Is it more personal? 47:30 – Chuck talks about why he is starting this new podcast. 48:10 – Chuck: My business coach said to me: write a mission statement. When I did that things started having clarity for me. Chuck talks about the plan for the DevRev! 55:20 – Chris: I am looking forward to it! 55:34 – Chuck: It will be recorded via video through YouTube, too, in addition to iTunes (hopefully). 55:52 – Chris & Chuck: Picks! 55:58 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue React JavaScript C# C++ C++ Programming / Memory Management Angular Blazor JavaScript DevChat TV VueCLI Boiler Plate Hello Vue Components Vue Monolith Example Thorsten’s Twitter Sarah’s Twitter Ben Hong’s Twitter Jacob Schatz’ Twitter Vue Vixens The DevRev Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Get A Coder Job! Picks: Chris Vue Vixens Charles repurpose.io MFCEO Project Podcast Game - Test Version

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Gareth McCumskey This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with Gareth McCumskey who is a senior web developer for RunwaySale! They talk about Gareth’s background, current projects and his family. Check out today’s episode to hear all about it and much more! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:53 – Chuck: Hey everyone! Welcome! We are talking today with Gareth McCumseky! 1:05 – Gareth: Hi! 1:22 – Chuck: Are you from Cape Town, Africa? (Guest: Yes!) 1:35 – Gareth and Chuck talk about his name, Gareth, and why it’s popular.  1:49 – Chuck: I am in my late 40’s. You were here for JSJ’s Episode 291! It’s still a hot topic and probably should revisit that topic. 2:20 – Guest: Yes! 2:30 – Chuck: It’s interesting. We had a long talk about it and people should go listen to it! 2:45 – Guest: I am a backend developer for the most part. 3:03 – Chuck: Yeah I started off as an ops guy. It probably hurt me. 3:21 – Guest: Yeah, if you poke it a certain way. 3:29 – Chuck: Let’s talk about YOU! How did you get into programming? 3:39 – Guest: South Africa is a different culture to grow-up in vs. U.S. and other places. I remember the computer that my father had back in the day. He led me drive his car about 1km away and I was about 11 years old. We would take home the computer from his office – played around with it during the weekend – and put it back into his office Monday morning. This was way before the Internet. I was fiddling with it for sure. The guest talks about BASIC. 6:20 – Chuck: How did you transfer from building BASIC apps to JavaScript apps? 6:30 – Guest: Yeah that’s a good story. When I was 19 years old...I went to college and studied geology and tried to run an IT business on the side. I started to build things for HTML and CSS and build things for the Web. The guest goes into-detail about his background! 9:26 – Chuck: Yeah, jQuery was so awesome! 9:34 – Guest: Yeah today I am working on an app that uses jQuery! You get used to it, and it’s pretty powerful (jQuery) for what it is/what it does! It has neat tricks. 10:11 – Chuck: I’ve started a site with it b/c it was easy. 10:19 – Guest: Sometimes you don’t need the full out thing. Maybe you just need to load a page here and there, and that’s it. 10:39 – Chuck: It’s a different world – definitely! 10:48 – Guest: Yeah in 2015/2016 is when I picked up JavaScript again. It was b/c around that time we were expecting our first child and that’s where we wanted to be to raise her. Guest: We use webpack.js now. It opened my eyes to see how powerful JavaScript is! 12:10 – Chuck talks about Node.js. 12:21 – Guest: Even today, I got into AWS Cognito! 13:45 – Chuck: You say that your problems are unique – and from the business end I want something that I can resolve quickly. Your solution sounds good. I don’t like messing around with the headaches from Node and others. 14:22 – Guest: Yeah that’s the biggest selling point that I’ve had. 15:47 – Chuck: How did you get into serverless? 15:49 – Guest: Funny experience. I am not the expert and I only write the backend stuff. Guest: At the time, we wanted to improve the reliability of the machine and the site itself. He said to try serverless.com. At the time I wasn’t impressed but then when he suggested it – I took the recommendation more seriously. My company that I work for now... 17:39 – Chuck: What else are you working on? 17:45 – Guest: Some local projects – dining service that refunds you. You pay for a subscription, but find a cheaper way to spend money when you are eating out. It’s called: GOING OUT. Guest: My 3-year-old daughter and my wife is expecting our second child. 18:56 – Chuck and Gareth talk about family and their children. 22:17 – Chuck: Picks! 22:29 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular JavaScript Webpack.js Serverless jQuery Node AWS Cognito Gareth’s Website Gareth’s GitHub Gareth’s Twitter Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: Charles Max Wood Podcasts: MFCEO Project & Gary Vaynerchuk Pokémon Go! Gareth McCumskey Serverless.com Ingress Prime

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Joel Tanzi This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Joel Tanzi who is a software engineer who currently resides in the Kansas City, Missouri metropolis. He has a degree from KU in computer engineering. They discuss how Joel made a career change in his mid-thirties and hasn’t looked back since! Listen to today’s episode to hear more about Joel’s background and current projects!  In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:51 – Chuck: I am talking with Joel – introduce yourself, please! 1:00 – Joel: I am an Angular developer on the front end. I am employed with a company and working on a new app that has to do with security. I am building the front end to that product. I was studying computer engineering at KU, and Angular is my favorite. 2:00 – Chuck: How did you get into programming? 2:04 – Joel: I have always been fascinated with computers. I struggled with mathematics and science in primary school and so I steered away from those topics; therefore my first degree is English literature. Then I fell intro IT support accidentally. Back in 2006 I went through my 2nd layoff in my career. My friend asked whether or not I would go back to school, so I did! I went to get my engineering degree and relocated to KU. It took 9 years to get my 2nd degree, because I was working fulltime. When I was graduating I talked to an instructor; he mentioned JavaScript at that time. It was exploding in the world at that time. Then I got my first job downtown Kansas City. I haven’t looked back ever since. Have you heard about Knockout? I don’t get the impression that Knockout is popular anymore? (Chuck: No it’s not popular anymore.) I learned Angular and what I like the most about it is that I love how flexible and robust it was/is. 6:32 – Chuck: You found JavaScript and then found Angular – first people to get to Ionic from Angular. How did you get to that point? 6:54 – Joel: Good question! I was fairly new to that job. People already had exposure to it throughout the team/team members. 7:57 – Chuck: How was your transition from Angular 1 to Angular 2? 8:04 – Joel: I was never married to it. I do think that Angular 2 was a major step-up for me and was an important change that needed to happen. It was based on the same concepts. 8:39 – Chuck: What work in Angular are you most proud of? 8:42 – Joel: I think the application I am working on now b/c it looks THE best! Among other things, too. I volunteer through an organization that puts together tech projects for local governments. I got involved with them b/c I wanted more real world experience. It revolves around city streetlights. 11:03 – Chuck: Yeah, Code for America I’ve heard before! Sounds neat! 11:18 – Joel: I would recommend it especially if you are trying to break-into the field. I think community outreach is honorable and it shows initiative. 12:06 – Chuck: Yeah I need to put this into my Get A Coder job 12:23 – Joel: I have met coders within this realm and it’s a great networking opportunity! 12:35 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 12:37 – Joel: WordPress development! 13:46 – Joel (continues): Most lawyers don’t have a website b/c they don’t want to dabble with the technology. 13:59 – Chuck: Cool! I think it’s important to note that your 1st degree was literature and you went back to school. For my mom she went back, too. Were you older than the other students? 14:35 – Joel: I have a lot of things that went my way, which I was very blessed. The law firm that I worked for they had a huge support for people getting their degrees. They also gave me the flex hours, too! I am glad that I had that set-up and I know I was extremely blessed to have that support. It’s hard for people to work fulltime and to go to school – it’s definitely a challenge! I am stoked about veterans getting into the coder field and people with diverse backgrounds into this field; it’s very neat! 18:23 – Chuck: How old were you when you made that career change? 18:36 – Joel: In my mid/late thirties! 18:39 – Chuck: People think that they CAN’T go back to school b/c they are too “old” – when that’s not the case! I encourage people to give it a shot.  19:33 – Joel: There is never a better time to get into this work than now. 20:39 – Chuck: Where can people find you online? 20:45 – Joel: At my website – Stringly Typed! My LinkedIn! 21:45 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv Joel’s LinkedIn Stringly Typed Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Joel Tanzi Code America Operation Code RxJS Chuck Max Wood Mastodon HubSpot

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Joel Tanzi This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Joel Tanzi who is a software engineer who currently resides in the Kansas City, Missouri metropolis. He has a degree from KU in computer engineering. They discuss how Joel made a career change in his mid-thirties and hasn’t looked back since! Listen to today’s episode to hear more about Joel’s background and current projects!  In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:51 – Chuck: I am talking with Joel – introduce yourself, please! 1:00 – Joel: I am an Angular developer on the front end. I am employed with a company and working on a new app that has to do with security. I am building the front end to that product. I was studying computer engineering at KU, and Angular is my favorite. 2:00 – Chuck: How did you get into programming? 2:04 – Joel: I have always been fascinated with computers. I struggled with mathematics and science in primary school and so I steered away from those topics; therefore my first degree is English literature. Then I fell intro IT support accidentally. Back in 2006 I went through my 2nd layoff in my career. My friend asked whether or not I would go back to school, so I did! I went to get my engineering degree and relocated to KU. It took 9 years to get my 2nd degree, because I was working fulltime. When I was graduating I talked to an instructor; he mentioned JavaScript at that time. It was exploding in the world at that time. Then I got my first job downtown Kansas City. I haven’t looked back ever since. Have you heard about Knockout? I don’t get the impression that Knockout is popular anymore? (Chuck: No it’s not popular anymore.) I learned Angular and what I like the most about it is that I love how flexible and robust it was/is. 6:32 – Chuck: You found JavaScript and then found Angular – first people to get to Ionic from Angular. How did you get to that point? 6:54 – Joel: Good question! I was fairly new to that job. People already had exposure to it throughout the team/team members. 7:57 – Chuck: How was your transition from Angular 1 to Angular 2? 8:04 – Joel: I was never married to it. I do think that Angular 2 was a major step-up for me and was an important change that needed to happen. It was based on the same concepts. 8:39 – Chuck: What work in Angular are you most proud of? 8:42 – Joel: I think the application I am working on now b/c it looks THE best! Among other things, too. I volunteer through an organization that puts together tech projects for local governments. I got involved with them b/c I wanted more real world experience. It revolves around city streetlights. 11:03 – Chuck: Yeah, Code for America I’ve heard before! Sounds neat! 11:18 – Joel: I would recommend it especially if you are trying to break-into the field. I think community outreach is honorable and it shows initiative. 12:06 – Chuck: Yeah I need to put this into my Get A Coder job 12:23 – Joel: I have met coders within this realm and it’s a great networking opportunity! 12:35 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 12:37 – Joel: WordPress development! 13:46 – Joel (continues): Most lawyers don’t have a website b/c they don’t want to dabble with the technology. 13:59 – Chuck: Cool! I think it’s important to note that your 1st degree was literature and you went back to school. For my mom she went back, too. Were you older than the other students? 14:35 – Joel: I have a lot of things that went my way, which I was very blessed. The law firm that I worked for they had a huge support for people getting their degrees. They also gave me the flex hours, too! I am glad that I had that set-up and I know I was extremely blessed to have that support. It’s hard for people to work fulltime and to go to school – it’s definitely a challenge! I am stoked about veterans getting into the coder field and people with diverse backgrounds into this field; it’s very neat! 18:23 – Chuck: How old were you when you made that career change? 18:36 – Joel: In my mid/late thirties! 18:39 – Chuck: People think that they CAN’T go back to school b/c they are too “old” – when that’s not the case! I encourage people to give it a shot.  19:33 – Joel: There is never a better time to get into this work than now. 20:39 – Chuck: Where can people find you online? 20:45 – Joel: At my website – Stringly Typed! My LinkedIn! 21:45 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv Joel’s LinkedIn Stringly Typed Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Joel Tanzi Code America Operation Code RxJS Chuck Max Wood Mastodon HubSpot

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Gareth McCumskey This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with Gareth McCumskey who is a senior web developer for RunwaySale! They talk about Gareth’s background, current projects and his family. Check out today’s episode to hear all about it and much more! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:53 – Chuck: Hey everyone! Welcome! We are talking today with Gareth McCumseky! 1:05 – Gareth: Hi! 1:22 – Chuck: Are you from Cape Town, Africa? (Guest: Yes!) 1:35 – Gareth and Chuck talk about his name, Gareth, and why it’s popular.  1:49 – Chuck: I am in my late 40’s. You were here for JSJ’s Episode 291! It’s still a hot topic and probably should revisit that topic. 2:20 – Guest: Yes! 2:30 – Chuck: It’s interesting. We had a long talk about it and people should go listen to it! 2:45 – Guest: I am a backend developer for the most part. 3:03 – Chuck: Yeah I started off as an ops guy. It probably hurt me. 3:21 – Guest: Yeah, if you poke it a certain way. 3:29 – Chuck: Let’s talk about YOU! How did you get into programming? 3:39 – Guest: South Africa is a different culture to grow-up in vs. U.S. and other places. I remember the computer that my father had back in the day. He led me drive his car about 1km away and I was about 11 years old. We would take home the computer from his office – played around with it during the weekend – and put it back into his office Monday morning. This was way before the Internet. I was fiddling with it for sure. The guest talks about BASIC. 6:20 – Chuck: How did you transfer from building BASIC apps to JavaScript apps? 6:30 – Guest: Yeah that’s a good story. When I was 19 years old...I went to college and studied geology and tried to run an IT business on the side. I started to build things for HTML and CSS and build things for the Web. The guest goes into-detail about his background! 9:26 – Chuck: Yeah, jQuery was so awesome! 9:34 – Guest: Yeah today I am working on an app that uses jQuery! You get used to it, and it’s pretty powerful (jQuery) for what it is/what it does! It has neat tricks. 10:11 – Chuck: I’ve started a site with it b/c it was easy. 10:19 – Guest: Sometimes you don’t need the full out thing. Maybe you just need to load a page here and there, and that’s it. 10:39 – Chuck: It’s a different world – definitely! 10:48 – Guest: Yeah in 2015/2016 is when I picked up JavaScript again. It was b/c around that time we were expecting our first child and that’s where we wanted to be to raise her. Guest: We use webpack.js now. It opened my eyes to see how powerful JavaScript is! 12:10 – Chuck talks about Node.js. 12:21 – Guest: Even today, I got into AWS Cognito! 13:45 – Chuck: You say that your problems are unique – and from the business end I want something that I can resolve quickly. Your solution sounds good. I don’t like messing around with the headaches from Node and others. 14:22 – Guest: Yeah that’s the biggest selling point that I’ve had. 15:47 – Chuck: How did you get into serverless? 15:49 – Guest: Funny experience. I am not the expert and I only write the backend stuff. Guest: At the time, we wanted to improve the reliability of the machine and the site itself. He said to try serverless.com. At the time I wasn’t impressed but then when he suggested it – I took the recommendation more seriously. My company that I work for now... 17:39 – Chuck: What else are you working on? 17:45 – Guest: Some local projects – dining service that refunds you. You pay for a subscription, but find a cheaper way to spend money when you are eating out. It’s called: GOING OUT. Guest: My 3-year-old daughter and my wife is expecting our second child. 18:56 – Chuck and Gareth talk about family and their children. 22:17 – Chuck: Picks! 22:29 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular JavaScript Webpack.js Serverless jQuery Node AWS Cognito Gareth’s Website Gareth’s GitHub Gareth’s Twitter Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: Charles Max Wood Podcasts: MFCEO Project & Gary Vaynerchuk Pokémon Go! Gareth McCumskey Serverless.com Ingress Prime

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Joel Tanzi This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Joel Tanzi who is a software engineer who currently resides in the Kansas City, Missouri metropolis. He has a degree from KU in computer engineering. They discuss how Joel made a career change in his mid-thirties and hasn’t looked back since! Listen to today’s episode to hear more about Joel’s background and current projects!  In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:51 – Chuck: I am talking with Joel – introduce yourself, please! 1:00 – Joel: I am an Angular developer on the front end. I am employed with a company and working on a new app that has to do with security. I am building the front end to that product. I was studying computer engineering at KU, and Angular is my favorite. 2:00 – Chuck: How did you get into programming? 2:04 – Joel: I have always been fascinated with computers. I struggled with mathematics and science in primary school and so I steered away from those topics; therefore my first degree is English literature. Then I fell intro IT support accidentally. Back in 2006 I went through my 2nd layoff in my career. My friend asked whether or not I would go back to school, so I did! I went to get my engineering degree and relocated to KU. It took 9 years to get my 2nd degree, because I was working fulltime. When I was graduating I talked to an instructor; he mentioned JavaScript at that time. It was exploding in the world at that time. Then I got my first job downtown Kansas City. I haven’t looked back ever since. Have you heard about Knockout? I don’t get the impression that Knockout is popular anymore? (Chuck: No it’s not popular anymore.) I learned Angular and what I like the most about it is that I love how flexible and robust it was/is. 6:32 – Chuck: You found JavaScript and then found Angular – first people to get to Ionic from Angular. How did you get to that point? 6:54 – Joel: Good question! I was fairly new to that job. People already had exposure to it throughout the team/team members. 7:57 – Chuck: How was your transition from Angular 1 to Angular 2? 8:04 – Joel: I was never married to it. I do think that Angular 2 was a major step-up for me and was an important change that needed to happen. It was based on the same concepts. 8:39 – Chuck: What work in Angular are you most proud of? 8:42 – Joel: I think the application I am working on now b/c it looks THE best! Among other things, too. I volunteer through an organization that puts together tech projects for local governments. I got involved with them b/c I wanted more real world experience. It revolves around city streetlights. 11:03 – Chuck: Yeah, Code for America I’ve heard before! Sounds neat! 11:18 – Joel: I would recommend it especially if you are trying to break-into the field. I think community outreach is honorable and it shows initiative. 12:06 – Chuck: Yeah I need to put this into my Get A Coder job 12:23 – Joel: I have met coders within this realm and it’s a great networking opportunity! 12:35 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 12:37 – Joel: WordPress development! 13:46 – Joel (continues): Most lawyers don’t have a website b/c they don’t want to dabble with the technology. 13:59 – Chuck: Cool! I think it’s important to note that your 1st degree was literature and you went back to school. For my mom she went back, too. Were you older than the other students? 14:35 – Joel: I have a lot of things that went my way, which I was very blessed. The law firm that I worked for they had a huge support for people getting their degrees. They also gave me the flex hours, too! I am glad that I had that set-up and I know I was extremely blessed to have that support. It’s hard for people to work fulltime and to go to school – it’s definitely a challenge! I am stoked about veterans getting into the coder field and people with diverse backgrounds into this field; it’s very neat! 18:23 – Chuck: How old were you when you made that career change? 18:36 – Joel: In my mid/late thirties! 18:39 – Chuck: People think that they CAN’T go back to school b/c they are too “old” – when that’s not the case! I encourage people to give it a shot.  19:33 – Joel: There is never a better time to get into this work than now. 20:39 – Chuck: Where can people find you online? 20:45 – Joel: At my website – Stringly Typed! My LinkedIn! 21:45 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv Joel’s LinkedIn Stringly Typed Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Joel Tanzi Code America Operation Code RxJS Chuck Max Wood Mastodon HubSpot

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Gareth McCumskey This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with Gareth McCumskey who is a senior web developer for RunwaySale! They talk about Gareth’s background, current projects and his family. Check out today’s episode to hear all about it and much more! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:53 – Chuck: Hey everyone! Welcome! We are talking today with Gareth McCumseky! 1:05 – Gareth: Hi! 1:22 – Chuck: Are you from Cape Town, Africa? (Guest: Yes!) 1:35 – Gareth and Chuck talk about his name, Gareth, and why it’s popular.  1:49 – Chuck: I am in my late 40’s. You were here for JSJ’s Episode 291! It’s still a hot topic and probably should revisit that topic. 2:20 – Guest: Yes! 2:30 – Chuck: It’s interesting. We had a long talk about it and people should go listen to it! 2:45 – Guest: I am a backend developer for the most part. 3:03 – Chuck: Yeah I started off as an ops guy. It probably hurt me. 3:21 – Guest: Yeah, if you poke it a certain way. 3:29 – Chuck: Let’s talk about YOU! How did you get into programming? 3:39 – Guest: South Africa is a different culture to grow-up in vs. U.S. and other places. I remember the computer that my father had back in the day. He led me drive his car about 1km away and I was about 11 years old. We would take home the computer from his office – played around with it during the weekend – and put it back into his office Monday morning. This was way before the Internet. I was fiddling with it for sure. The guest talks about BASIC. 6:20 – Chuck: How did you transfer from building BASIC apps to JavaScript apps? 6:30 – Guest: Yeah that’s a good story. When I was 19 years old...I went to college and studied geology and tried to run an IT business on the side. I started to build things for HTML and CSS and build things for the Web. The guest goes into-detail about his background! 9:26 – Chuck: Yeah, jQuery was so awesome! 9:34 – Guest: Yeah today I am working on an app that uses jQuery! You get used to it, and it’s pretty powerful (jQuery) for what it is/what it does! It has neat tricks. 10:11 – Chuck: I’ve started a site with it b/c it was easy. 10:19 – Guest: Sometimes you don’t need the full out thing. Maybe you just need to load a page here and there, and that’s it. 10:39 – Chuck: It’s a different world – definitely! 10:48 – Guest: Yeah in 2015/2016 is when I picked up JavaScript again. It was b/c around that time we were expecting our first child and that’s where we wanted to be to raise her. Guest: We use webpack.js now. It opened my eyes to see how powerful JavaScript is! 12:10 – Chuck talks about Node.js. 12:21 – Guest: Even today, I got into AWS Cognito! 13:45 – Chuck: You say that your problems are unique – and from the business end I want something that I can resolve quickly. Your solution sounds good. I don’t like messing around with the headaches from Node and others. 14:22 – Guest: Yeah that’s the biggest selling point that I’ve had. 15:47 – Chuck: How did you get into serverless? 15:49 – Guest: Funny experience. I am not the expert and I only write the backend stuff. Guest: At the time, we wanted to improve the reliability of the machine and the site itself. He said to try serverless.com. At the time I wasn’t impressed but then when he suggested it – I took the recommendation more seriously. My company that I work for now... 17:39 – Chuck: What else are you working on? 17:45 – Guest: Some local projects – dining service that refunds you. You pay for a subscription, but find a cheaper way to spend money when you are eating out. It’s called: GOING OUT. Guest: My 3-year-old daughter and my wife is expecting our second child. 18:56 – Chuck and Gareth talk about family and their children. 22:17 – Chuck: Picks! 22:29 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular JavaScript Webpack.js Serverless jQuery Node AWS Cognito Gareth’s Website Gareth’s GitHub Gareth’s Twitter Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: Charles Max Wood Podcasts: MFCEO Project & Gary Vaynerchuk Pokémon Go! Gareth McCumskey Serverless.com Ingress Prime

Panel: Charles Max Wood Mark Ericksen Special Guest: Brujo Benavides  In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks with Brujo Benavides (Argentina) who is a software engineer and uses a mix of Elixir, Erlang, and GO. They talk about the similarities and differences between Erlang and Elixir. Brujo talks about conferences that he organizes. You can find the guest through GitHub, Twitter, and About Me. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job!  0:58 – Chuck: Our special guest is Brujo B.! Let’s talk about the topic today, which is: Lessons from a decade of Erlang! We really haven’t talked about Erlang in the past. 1:47 – Mark: Can you give us your introduction, please? 1:55 – Guest: I started programming at 10 years old. I translated a guest to Spanish. Then after school I started working with other languages, until I did my thesis at the university. I got hired and then while there they taught me Erlang. After 2 years the company went away and died. When that happened I had my honeymoon plan to go to Europe. I went to Poland and found a company that interviewed me, I passed the test, and got hired. The best solution I could ever make. I moved from developer to another position, to director and then to CEO. 6:16 – Chuck: You have been doing Erlang for a while. My brain said 10 years of Elixir and that’s not possible – my bad. When Erlang came onto the scene how did that affect you? 6:40 – Guest answers Chuck’s question. 9:06 – Chuck: See show note links, please. It’s cool to see that you took cautious approaches to the language. What’s the balance between Erlang and Elixir? 9:33 – Guest: It’s about 45/45, because I also do GO. I don’t really like GO, but it’s whatever. 9:59 – Chuck: What has changed in the last 10 years? 10:09 – Guest: It’s my personal view on this and what I see at conferences. I saw a change from beginning Elixir as much acceptance and the community is more open. The people are already so developed already. 11:53 – Mark: I know there is an effort to make the beam languages more compatible. I know using a colon in the name and there’s a lot of communication there. At the last conference, they were talking about this. I think it’s neat that the community is not fighting this. In the early days it seems that the Erlang community were fighting it – what’s that transfer been like? 13:00 – Guest: There were other languages outside of Elixir with the beam. They failed and didn’t catch-on. 15:00 – Panel: How have you liked/disliked coding in Elixir vs. Erlang? 15:14 – Guest: I like many things that Elixir and Erlang can offer. Elixir is a mature and young language. There are many things that they corrected from day one. One thing I don’t like about Amber is that... 17:36 – Mark: I also use it b/c it does give that consistency. It normalizes all the different ways you can code. When I review people’s code I will take the code formatter and get it to be normalized. I am happy with it and I will take it. 18:17 – Guest: Everybody understands everybody’s code. 18:48 – Guest mentions Elvis. See links below. 19:00 – Chuck: It’s interesting. It comes down to community and in some ways it’s not that Erlang community isn’t a good one, but sounds like... 19:17 – Guest: The other thing that happened with the Erlang community is the topic of building websites. In 2015 it was in the Elixir Conference in San Francisco – I think – this is what happened... 20:47 – Mark: I think it’s a credit to both communities. I’ve watched those talks before. I was watching these Erlang Conferences and there have been Elixir speakers there. Good collaboration and I’m happy for that. 21:19 – Chuck: Will these 2 technologies grow together? 21:30 – Guest: Great mix of talks from Erlang and Elixir and talking about how to build systems. 22:49 – Mark: This blog post that you wrote – see show note links before. Can you mention the main topics that you wrote within this blog post? General lessons you’ve learned? 23:23 – Guest: The most important is how we start building stuff over common abstractions. 26:07 – FreshBooks! 27:11 – Mark: You mentioned the behaviors and the abstraction that is available through OTP is through the genserver. Those are and yes it’s true to educate people you will start with a spawn to see how simple things are. Yes, you don’t build a system on that. 27:55 – Guest: I recommend the talk to Spanish speakers. See links below. I asked for a translation but he said no. 29:10 – Mark: You talked also about test-driven development. How has testing in the Erlang community from the past and how has it been influenced by Elixir if at all? 29:53 – Guest: I am not sure. 32:34 – Mark: I don’t know how to spawn another node and have a disconnect in a testing framework? There might be other ways to do it? I would like to borrow that between the two. I’ve built some code that is cluster aware. Yeah I would love to have integration tests. Maybe that is available through Elixir- thanks for talking about that! 33:27 – Chuck: Anything else? Let’s talk about the Sawn Fest! 33:40 – Guest: It started in 2011 and started with a contest that anybody could participate. Judicators judged it and then awards were given. 34:38 – Chuck. 34:44 – Guest: The next year in 2012 the sponsors gave prizes. We were eagerly waiting but there was no contest that year. 37:47 – Chuck and guest go back-and-forth. 37:57 – Guest: There is a team of four now. If you go to the website it actually looks amazing unlike last year!! 39:19 – Mark: People will not hear about this, though, at the time it broadcasts b/c your episode is coming out after Nov. 24th - 25th. Can you do the game/contest remotely? 39:54 – Guest: Yes, people are playing from around the world from India, Denmark, Romania, Africa, and China! So yes you can do it from your house. 40:18 – Mark: What can people do or see or read about the winners? And after-the-fact? 40:32 – Guest: Yes when judges are judging we make the depositories public!! 42:05 – Chuck: My Sunday’s are usually pretty full. 42:19 – Guest: Yes that happened to me. As an organizer I cannot quit b/c I still have to be there. Time with my wife and kid is important, but yes it’s fun! 42:43 – Mark: Yes that shows how passionate they are about the community and the language. 42:56 – Chuck: Mind-blown! 43:10 – Chuck: You organize some conferences right? 43:17 – Guest: Yes. 44:25 – Chuck: Anything else? 44:30 – Mark: Dialyzer and curious about you organizing a Meetup? I have organized an Elixir Meetup. With Meetups how can you tell us how to make it successful? Are you doing both Erlang and Elixir? How are you running it? 45:10 – Guest answers the question. 51:53 – Chuck: How can people find you? 52:00 – Guest: GitHub! Twitter! About Me! (See links below.) 52:19 – Chuck: Picks! 52:20 – Ad: Lootcrate.com END – CacheFly! Links: Ruby Elixir Elixir: GenServer GenServers Elm JavaScript Visual Studio Code React Erlang Solutions Inaka Inaka Credo_Server Erlang Solutions Elvis 114 RR Elixir Show 048 RR Show 10 Lessons from Decade with Erlang YouTube Video in Spanish Erlang: Common_Test ExUnit Smalltalk SpawnFest 2018 SpawnFest Zoom Brujo’s Twitter Brujo’s Website Credo Sponsors: Loot Crate Get a Coder Job! Fresh Books CacheFly Picks: Mark Zoom Meeting Charles Mastodon Brujo Katana Test

Panel: Charles Max Wood Joe Eames John Papa Alyssa Nicoll Special Guest:  Michael Giambalvo In this episode, Chuck talks with special guest Michael Giambalvo who is an author of the book titled, “Testing Angular Applications.” This book can be purchased through Amazon, Manning Publications, among other sites, too. The panelists and the guest talk about different types of tests, such as end-to-end testing and unit testing. They also talk about Angular, Java, Mocha, Test Café, and much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: AngularBootCamp.Com 0:53 – Chuck: Our panel is John Papa, Joe Eames, Alyssa Nicoll, and myself. My new show is the DevRev – check it out, please! 1:26 – Guest: I am a contributing author to our new book, which is about Angular. 1:56 – Chuck: How is it like to write with multiple people? 2:04 – Guest: Yep it’s hard b/c we are in different areas. Back in the 2.0 days, Jesse was writing a book. He was talking about typescript and components. Craig made friends with Jesse and they were talking about the book he was writing. Then we all jumped in to get in finished. We all had areas that we were specialists in! 3:21 – Alyssa: If you break it up that makes sense. 3:31 – Guest. 3:40 – Panel: Pick different words and go around the room. 3:51 – Panel: You write the first ½ of a sentence and then you write the other ½ of the sentence! 4:10 – Guest: You have these big word documents and go back-and-forth. 4:36 – Alyssa: Editing and then pass it back-and-forth – how does that work? 4:46 – Guest: It’s like 8 pass backs-and-forth. 5:35 – Guest: The editing was the main issue – it took forever! 5:50 – Chuck: We were going to co-author a book and we didn’t. Chuck: If you could break down the book in 4 core topics what would they be? Elevator pitch? What is the starting knowledge? 6:18 – Guest: We expect you to know Angular Intro and that’s it! 6:43 – Chuck: What are the principles? 6:50 – Guest: We talk about the testing component. We highlight the benefits of using Angular vs. Angular.js. That shows up in the book a lot. It’s very example driven. 7:28 – Chuck: We have been talking about testing quite a bit on the show lately. 8:22 – Chuck: Do you see people using the testing in regards to the pyramid? 8:33 – Guest: I am not a huge fan of the pyramid. Some questions I ask are: Does it run quickly? Is it reliable? To give you some background I work on Google Club Platform. 10:21 – The guest talks about “Page Level Integration Tests.” 11:31 – Alyssa. 11:50 – Chuck: After your explanation after writing your book I’m sure it’s a breeze now. Knowing these tests and having the confidence is great. 12:13 – Guest: Tools like Cypress is very helpful. Web Driver Testing, too. 12:43 – Chuck: Where do people start? What do you recommend? Do they start at Protractor or do they come down to unit tests? 13:02 – Guest: Finding the balance is important. 14:30 – Chuck: Check out a past episode that we’ve done. 14:40 – Panel asks a question about tools such as Test Café and Cypress. 14:50 – Guest: I really don’t know Test Café. There is a long story in how all of these fit together. The guest talks about Selenium, Cypress, Safari, Edge, Chrome, Firefox, and Puppeteer! 19:24 – Chuck: Does it work in Electron as well, too? 19:26 – Guest: Good question but I don’t know the answer. 19:39 – Chuck: Maybe a listener could write a comment and tell us. 19:43 – Panel: I’ve used Protractor for many years. I like the explanation that you just gave. The great thing about Protractor is that you can... 20:29 – Guest: We wanted to explain the difficulty of Protractor in this book. Guest: You have this test running in Node but then you have your app running in the browser. You have these 2 different run times. You might have to run them separately and there is tons of complexity. 21:15 – Panel: As I am coding you have this visual browser on one side, and then on the other side you have... 22:22 – Guest asks the panelists a question. 22:32 – Panel: I have only used it for a few months and a few several apps but haven’t had those issues, yet. 22:55 – Guest: I haven’t heard of Test Café at all. 23:05 – Alyssa: Is the book online? 23:13 – Guest: It’s available through Manning Publications and Amazon. I think we have some codes to giveaway! 23:34 – Chuck: Yeah, we are working on those codes and giveaways. We have mentioned about 5 or 6 tools – are you worried about your book going out of date? 24:05 – Guest: Sure that is something we are worried about. When editing took a long time to get through that was one of my thoughts. The guest talks about Selenium, control flow, Protractor, 25:45 – Guest (continues): These new features were coming out while the book was coming out – so there’s that. What’s this thing about control flow and why this matters to you, etc. We were able to add that into the book, which is good. We were able to get those instructions out there. Books have a delay to them. 26:47 – Chuck: We talked about this in JavaScript Jabber. This guest talked about this and he is from Big Nerd Ranch. At what point do you have this breaking point: This isn’t a good fit for Test Café or Selenium BUT a good fit for Mocha or Jest? 27:27 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 28:04 – Guest: Do you have a reason why you would switch testing tools? 28:12 – Chuck. 28:41 – Guest: That’s the tradeoff as you move down the ladder. 29:43 – Panel: If you want to trigger an action that isn’t triggerable? 29:50 – Guest answers the question. 30:07 – Panel. 30:20 – Chuck. 30:33 – Guest: You can access code. Usually something in a workflow will make it happen. You have to fall back on some type of UI sort of thing. It’s almost like doing Tetris! I’ve never had to directly call something. I am not the best one to answer that. 31:16 – Panel: It’s like a weird mix of tests. 31:29 – Panelist is talking about unit testing and other tests. 31:55 – Chuck asks a question. 32:02 – Guest: It depends on the scale of your project. 32:28 – Chuck: Do you guys use a test coverage tool or on the side of: everything should run and then test if there is a bug. 32:43 – Guest: Coverage isn’t the full story. 33:26 – Panel: You said you weren’t a fan of the testing pyramid – can you explain why? 33:43 – Guest: I think it turns too much prescriptive. Guest: I think there are bigger concerns out there and the test pyramid is an over-simplification. 35:22 – Panel: What’s the difference between fast and slow testing? 35:28 – Guest: It really depends on your level of knowledge. If your test suite runs more than twenty minutes to an hour that is probably too slow! 36:03 – Alyssa. 36:09 – Chuck. 36:16 – Alyssa: There is no way that 20 minutes equals that! 36:26 – Guest: 20 minutes is the extreme limit.  36:51 – Chuck. 37:11 – Panel: Any new Twitter news on Trump? 37:21 – Panelist talks about test suites! 37:40 – Panelists and guests go back-and-forth. 38:11 – Chuck: Do you have any recommendations for the unit testing? Keeping it small or not so much? 38:29 – Guest: Think: What is this test asking? Don’t write tests that won’t fail if some other tests could have caught them. 39:04 – Alyssa: That’s smart! 39:09 – Guest continues. 39:28 – Chuck: What else to jump on? Chuck: Do you write your tests in typescript or in Java? 39:48 – Guest answers the question. He mentions Python, typescript, and more! 40:17 – Alyssa. 40:22 – Guest continues. 40:46 – Alyssa: How many people worked on that project? 40:50 – Guest: 2 or 3 framework engineers who did the tooling. About 20 people total for tooling to make sure everything worked. 41:18 – Panelist asks a question. 41:22 – Guest: About 20 minutes! 42:35 – Guest wants to talk about the topic: end-to-end testing! 44:59 – Chuck: Let’s do picks! 45:09 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly! Links: Vue jQuery Angular JavaScript Python React Cypress Puppeteer – GitHub Protractor Test Mocha.js Selenium C# GitHub: testcafe Istanbul “Protractor: A New Hope” – YouTube Video – Michael Giambalvo & Craig Nishina Book: “Testing Angular Applications” – Manning Publications Michael’s GitHub Michael’s Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Cache Fly Picks: Alyssa Fantastic Beasts Joe Skyward War of the Spider Queen Luxur - board game Testing Angular with Cypress.io Space Cadets Sonar Family Charles The DevRev Podcast Gary Vee Audio Experience Michael Scale Captain Sonar

Panel: Charles Max Wood Joe Eames John Papa Alyssa Nicoll Special Guest:  Michael Giambalvo In this episode, Chuck talks with special guest Michael Giambalvo who is an author of the book titled, “Testing Angular Applications.” This book can be purchased through Amazon, Manning Publications, among other sites, too. The panelists and the guest talk about different types of tests, such as end-to-end testing and unit testing. They also talk about Angular, Java, Mocha, Test Café, and much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: AngularBootCamp.Com 0:53 – Chuck: Our panel is John Papa, Joe Eames, Alyssa Nicoll, and myself. My new show is the DevRev – check it out, please! 1:26 – Guest: I am a contributing author to our new book, which is about Angular. 1:56 – Chuck: How is it like to write with multiple people? 2:04 – Guest: Yep it’s hard b/c we are in different areas. Back in the 2.0 days, Jesse was writing a book. He was talking about typescript and components. Craig made friends with Jesse and they were talking about the book he was writing. Then we all jumped in to get in finished. We all had areas that we were specialists in! 3:21 – Alyssa: If you break it up that makes sense. 3:31 – Guest. 3:40 – Panel: Pick different words and go around the room. 3:51 – Panel: You write the first ½ of a sentence and then you write the other ½ of the sentence! 4:10 – Guest: You have these big word documents and go back-and-forth. 4:36 – Alyssa: Editing and then pass it back-and-forth – how does that work? 4:46 – Guest: It’s like 8 pass backs-and-forth. 5:35 – Guest: The editing was the main issue – it took forever! 5:50 – Chuck: We were going to co-author a book and we didn’t. Chuck: If you could break down the book in 4 core topics what would they be? Elevator pitch? What is the starting knowledge? 6:18 – Guest: We expect you to know Angular Intro and that’s it! 6:43 – Chuck: What are the principles? 6:50 – Guest: We talk about the testing component. We highlight the benefits of using Angular vs. Angular.js. That shows up in the book a lot. It’s very example driven. 7:28 – Chuck: We have been talking about testing quite a bit on the show lately. 8:22 – Chuck: Do you see people using the testing in regards to the pyramid? 8:33 – Guest: I am not a huge fan of the pyramid. Some questions I ask are: Does it run quickly? Is it reliable? To give you some background I work on Google Club Platform. 10:21 – The guest talks about “Page Level Integration Tests.” 11:31 – Alyssa. 11:50 – Chuck: After your explanation after writing your book I’m sure it’s a breeze now. Knowing these tests and having the confidence is great. 12:13 – Guest: Tools like Cypress is very helpful. Web Driver Testing, too. 12:43 – Chuck: Where do people start? What do you recommend? Do they start at Protractor or do they come down to unit tests? 13:02 – Guest: Finding the balance is important. 14:30 – Chuck: Check out a past episode that we’ve done. 14:40 – Panel asks a question about tools such as Test Café and Cypress. 14:50 – Guest: I really don’t know Test Café. There is a long story in how all of these fit together. The guest talks about Selenium, Cypress, Safari, Edge, Chrome, Firefox, and Puppeteer! 19:24 – Chuck: Does it work in Electron as well, too? 19:26 – Guest: Good question but I don’t know the answer. 19:39 – Chuck: Maybe a listener could write a comment and tell us. 19:43 – Panel: I’ve used Protractor for many years. I like the explanation that you just gave. The great thing about Protractor is that you can... 20:29 – Guest: We wanted to explain the difficulty of Protractor in this book. Guest: You have this test running in Node but then you have your app running in the browser. You have these 2 different run times. You might have to run them separately and there is tons of complexity. 21:15 – Panel: As I am coding you have this visual browser on one side, and then on the other side you have... 22:22 – Guest asks the panelists a question. 22:32 – Panel: I have only used it for a few months and a few several apps but haven’t had those issues, yet. 22:55 – Guest: I haven’t heard of Test Café at all. 23:05 – Alyssa: Is the book online? 23:13 – Guest: It’s available through Manning Publications and Amazon. I think we have some codes to giveaway! 23:34 – Chuck: Yeah, we are working on those codes and giveaways. We have mentioned about 5 or 6 tools – are you worried about your book going out of date? 24:05 – Guest: Sure that is something we are worried about. When editing took a long time to get through that was one of my thoughts. The guest talks about Selenium, control flow, Protractor, 25:45 – Guest (continues): These new features were coming out while the book was coming out – so there’s that. What’s this thing about control flow and why this matters to you, etc. We were able to add that into the book, which is good. We were able to get those instructions out there. Books have a delay to them. 26:47 – Chuck: We talked about this in JavaScript Jabber. This guest talked about this and he is from Big Nerd Ranch. At what point do you have this breaking point: This isn’t a good fit for Test Café or Selenium BUT a good fit for Mocha or Jest? 27:27 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 28:04 – Guest: Do you have a reason why you would switch testing tools? 28:12 – Chuck. 28:41 – Guest: That’s the tradeoff as you move down the ladder. 29:43 – Panel: If you want to trigger an action that isn’t triggerable? 29:50 – Guest answers the question. 30:07 – Panel. 30:20 – Chuck. 30:33 – Guest: You can access code. Usually something in a workflow will make it happen. You have to fall back on some type of UI sort of thing. It’s almost like doing Tetris! I’ve never had to directly call something. I am not the best one to answer that. 31:16 – Panel: It’s like a weird mix of tests. 31:29 – Panelist is talking about unit testing and other tests. 31:55 – Chuck asks a question. 32:02 – Guest: It depends on the scale of your project. 32:28 – Chuck: Do you guys use a test coverage tool or on the side of: everything should run and then test if there is a bug. 32:43 – Guest: Coverage isn’t the full story. 33:26 – Panel: You said you weren’t a fan of the testing pyramid – can you explain why? 33:43 – Guest: I think it turns too much prescriptive. Guest: I think there are bigger concerns out there and the test pyramid is an over-simplification. 35:22 – Panel: What’s the difference between fast and slow testing? 35:28 – Guest: It really depends on your level of knowledge. If your test suite runs more than twenty minutes to an hour that is probably too slow! 36:03 – Alyssa. 36:09 – Chuck. 36:16 – Alyssa: There is no way that 20 minutes equals that! 36:26 – Guest: 20 minutes is the extreme limit.  36:51 – Chuck. 37:11 – Panel: Any new Twitter news on Trump? 37:21 – Panelist talks about test suites! 37:40 – Panelists and guests go back-and-forth. 38:11 – Chuck: Do you have any recommendations for the unit testing? Keeping it small or not so much? 38:29 – Guest: Think: What is this test asking? Don’t write tests that won’t fail if some other tests could have caught them. 39:04 – Alyssa: That’s smart! 39:09 – Guest continues. 39:28 – Chuck: What else to jump on? Chuck: Do you write your tests in typescript or in Java? 39:48 – Guest answers the question. He mentions Python, typescript, and more! 40:17 – Alyssa. 40:22 – Guest continues. 40:46 – Alyssa: How many people worked on that project? 40:50 – Guest: 2 or 3 framework engineers who did the tooling. About 20 people total for tooling to make sure everything worked. 41:18 – Panelist asks a question. 41:22 – Guest: About 20 minutes! 42:35 – Guest wants to talk about the topic: end-to-end testing! 44:59 – Chuck: Let’s do picks! 45:09 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly! Links: Vue jQuery Angular JavaScript Python React Cypress Puppeteer – GitHub Protractor Test Mocha.js Selenium C# GitHub: testcafe Istanbul “Protractor: A New Hope” – YouTube Video – Michael Giambalvo & Craig Nishina Book: “Testing Angular Applications” – Manning Publications Michael’s GitHub Michael’s Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Cache Fly Picks: Alyssa Fantastic Beasts Joe Skyward War of the Spider Queen Luxur - board game Testing Angular with Cypress.io Space Cadets Sonar Family Charles The DevRev Podcast Gary Vee Audio Experience Michael Scale Captain Sonar

Panel: Charles Max Wood Mark Ericksen Special Guest: Brujo Benavides  In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks with Brujo Benavides (Argentina) who is a software engineer and uses a mix of Elixir, Erlang, and GO. They talk about the similarities and differences between Erlang and Elixir. Brujo talks about conferences that he organizes. You can find the guest through GitHub, Twitter, and About Me. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job!  0:58 – Chuck: Our special guest is Brujo B.! Let’s talk about the topic today, which is: Lessons from a decade of Erlang! We really haven’t talked about Erlang in the past. 1:47 – Mark: Can you give us your introduction, please? 1:55 – Guest: I started programming at 10 years old. I translated a guest to Spanish. Then after school I started working with other languages, until I did my thesis at the university. I got hired and then while there they taught me Erlang. After 2 years the company went away and died. When that happened I had my honeymoon plan to go to Europe. I went to Poland and found a company that interviewed me, I passed the test, and got hired. The best solution I could ever make. I moved from developer to another position, to director and then to CEO. 6:16 – Chuck: You have been doing Erlang for a while. My brain said 10 years of Elixir and that’s not possible – my bad. When Erlang came onto the scene how did that affect you? 6:40 – Guest answers Chuck’s question. 9:06 – Chuck: See show note links, please. It’s cool to see that you took cautious approaches to the language. What’s the balance between Erlang and Elixir? 9:33 – Guest: It’s about 45/45, because I also do GO. I don’t really like GO, but it’s whatever. 9:59 – Chuck: What has changed in the last 10 years? 10:09 – Guest: It’s my personal view on this and what I see at conferences. I saw a change from beginning Elixir as much acceptance and the community is more open. The people are already so developed already. 11:53 – Mark: I know there is an effort to make the beam languages more compatible. I know using a colon in the name and there’s a lot of communication there. At the last conference, they were talking about this. I think it’s neat that the community is not fighting this. In the early days it seems that the Erlang community were fighting it – what’s that transfer been like? 13:00 – Guest: There were other languages outside of Elixir with the beam. They failed and didn’t catch-on. 15:00 – Panel: How have you liked/disliked coding in Elixir vs. Erlang? 15:14 – Guest: I like many things that Elixir and Erlang can offer. Elixir is a mature and young language. There are many things that they corrected from day one. One thing I don’t like about Amber is that... 17:36 – Mark: I also use it b/c it does give that consistency. It normalizes all the different ways you can code. When I review people’s code I will take the code formatter and get it to be normalized. I am happy with it and I will take it. 18:17 – Guest: Everybody understands everybody’s code. 18:48 – Guest mentions Elvis. See links below. 19:00 – Chuck: It’s interesting. It comes down to community and in some ways it’s not that Erlang community isn’t a good one, but sounds like... 19:17 – Guest: The other thing that happened with the Erlang community is the topic of building websites. In 2015 it was in the Elixir Conference in San Francisco – I think – this is what happened... 20:47 – Mark: I think it’s a credit to both communities. I’ve watched those talks before. I was watching these Erlang Conferences and there have been Elixir speakers there. Good collaboration and I’m happy for that. 21:19 – Chuck: Will these 2 technologies grow together? 21:30 – Guest: Great mix of talks from Erlang and Elixir and talking about how to build systems. 22:49 – Mark: This blog post that you wrote – see show note links before. Can you mention the main topics that you wrote within this blog post? General lessons you’ve learned? 23:23 – Guest: The most important is how we start building stuff over common abstractions. 26:07 – FreshBooks! 27:11 – Mark: You mentioned the behaviors and the abstraction that is available through OTP is through the genserver. Those are and yes it’s true to educate people you will start with a spawn to see how simple things are. Yes, you don’t build a system on that. 27:55 – Guest: I recommend the talk to Spanish speakers. See links below. I asked for a translation but he said no. 29:10 – Mark: You talked also about test-driven development. How has testing in the Erlang community from the past and how has it been influenced by Elixir if at all? 29:53 – Guest: I am not sure. 32:34 – Mark: I don’t know how to spawn another node and have a disconnect in a testing framework? There might be other ways to do it? I would like to borrow that between the two. I’ve built some code that is cluster aware. Yeah I would love to have integration tests. Maybe that is available through Elixir- thanks for talking about that! 33:27 – Chuck: Anything else? Let’s talk about the Sawn Fest! 33:40 – Guest: It started in 2011 and started with a contest that anybody could participate. Judicators judged it and then awards were given. 34:38 – Chuck. 34:44 – Guest: The next year in 2012 the sponsors gave prizes. We were eagerly waiting but there was no contest that year. 37:47 – Chuck and guest go back-and-forth. 37:57 – Guest: There is a team of four now. If you go to the website it actually looks amazing unlike last year!! 39:19 – Mark: People will not hear about this, though, at the time it broadcasts b/c your episode is coming out after Nov. 24th - 25th. Can you do the game/contest remotely? 39:54 – Guest: Yes, people are playing from around the world from India, Denmark, Romania, Africa, and China! So yes you can do it from your house. 40:18 – Mark: What can people do or see or read about the winners? And after-the-fact? 40:32 – Guest: Yes when judges are judging we make the depositories public!! 42:05 – Chuck: My Sunday’s are usually pretty full. 42:19 – Guest: Yes that happened to me. As an organizer I cannot quit b/c I still have to be there. Time with my wife and kid is important, but yes it’s fun! 42:43 – Mark: Yes that shows how passionate they are about the community and the language. 42:56 – Chuck: Mind-blown! 43:10 – Chuck: You organize some conferences right? 43:17 – Guest: Yes. 44:25 – Chuck: Anything else? 44:30 – Mark: Dialyzer and curious about you organizing a Meetup? I have organized an Elixir Meetup. With Meetups how can you tell us how to make it successful? Are you doing both Erlang and Elixir? How are you running it? 45:10 – Guest answers the question. 51:53 – Chuck: How can people find you? 52:00 – Guest: GitHub! Twitter! About Me! (See links below.) 52:19 – Chuck: Picks! 52:20 – Ad: Lootcrate.com END – CacheFly! Links: Ruby Elixir Elixir: GenServer GenServers Elm JavaScript Visual Studio Code React Erlang Solutions Inaka Inaka Credo_Server Erlang Solutions Elvis 114 RR Elixir Show 048 RR Show 10 Lessons from Decade with Erlang YouTube Video in Spanish Erlang: Common_Test ExUnit Smalltalk SpawnFest 2018 SpawnFest Zoom Brujo’s Twitter Brujo’s Website Credo Sponsors: Loot Crate Get a Coder Job! Fresh Books CacheFly Picks: Mark Zoom Meeting Charles Mastodon Brujo Katana Test

Panel: Charles Max Wood Joe Eames John Papa Alyssa Nicoll Special Guest:  Michael Giambalvo In this episode, Chuck talks with special guest Michael Giambalvo who is an author of the book titled, “Testing Angular Applications.” This book can be purchased through Amazon, Manning Publications, among other sites, too. The panelists and the guest talk about different types of tests, such as end-to-end testing and unit testing. They also talk about Angular, Java, Mocha, Test Café, and much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: AngularBootCamp.Com 0:53 – Chuck: Our panel is John Papa, Joe Eames, Alyssa Nicoll, and myself. My new show is the DevRev – check it out, please! 1:26 – Guest: I am a contributing author to our new book, which is about Angular. 1:56 – Chuck: How is it like to write with multiple people? 2:04 – Guest: Yep it’s hard b/c we are in different areas. Back in the 2.0 days, Jesse was writing a book. He was talking about typescript and components. Craig made friends with Jesse and they were talking about the book he was writing. Then we all jumped in to get in finished. We all had areas that we were specialists in! 3:21 – Alyssa: If you break it up that makes sense. 3:31 – Guest. 3:40 – Panel: Pick different words and go around the room. 3:51 – Panel: You write the first ½ of a sentence and then you write the other ½ of the sentence! 4:10 – Guest: You have these big word documents and go back-and-forth. 4:36 – Alyssa: Editing and then pass it back-and-forth – how does that work? 4:46 – Guest: It’s like 8 pass backs-and-forth. 5:35 – Guest: The editing was the main issue – it took forever! 5:50 – Chuck: We were going to co-author a book and we didn’t. Chuck: If you could break down the book in 4 core topics what would they be? Elevator pitch? What is the starting knowledge? 6:18 – Guest: We expect you to know Angular Intro and that’s it! 6:43 – Chuck: What are the principles? 6:50 – Guest: We talk about the testing component. We highlight the benefits of using Angular vs. Angular.js. That shows up in the book a lot. It’s very example driven. 7:28 – Chuck: We have been talking about testing quite a bit on the show lately. 8:22 – Chuck: Do you see people using the testing in regards to the pyramid? 8:33 – Guest: I am not a huge fan of the pyramid. Some questions I ask are: Does it run quickly? Is it reliable? To give you some background I work on Google Club Platform. 10:21 – The guest talks about “Page Level Integration Tests.” 11:31 – Alyssa. 11:50 – Chuck: After your explanation after writing your book I’m sure it’s a breeze now. Knowing these tests and having the confidence is great. 12:13 – Guest: Tools like Cypress is very helpful. Web Driver Testing, too. 12:43 – Chuck: Where do people start? What do you recommend? Do they start at Protractor or do they come down to unit tests? 13:02 – Guest: Finding the balance is important. 14:30 – Chuck: Check out a past episode that we’ve done. 14:40 – Panel asks a question about tools such as Test Café and Cypress. 14:50 – Guest: I really don’t know Test Café. There is a long story in how all of these fit together. The guest talks about Selenium, Cypress, Safari, Edge, Chrome, Firefox, and Puppeteer! 19:24 – Chuck: Does it work in Electron as well, too? 19:26 – Guest: Good question but I don’t know the answer. 19:39 – Chuck: Maybe a listener could write a comment and tell us. 19:43 – Panel: I’ve used Protractor for many years. I like the explanation that you just gave. The great thing about Protractor is that you can... 20:29 – Guest: We wanted to explain the difficulty of Protractor in this book. Guest: You have this test running in Node but then you have your app running in the browser. You have these 2 different run times. You might have to run them separately and there is tons of complexity. 21:15 – Panel: As I am coding you have this visual browser on one side, and then on the other side you have... 22:22 – Guest asks the panelists a question. 22:32 – Panel: I have only used it for a few months and a few several apps but haven’t had those issues, yet. 22:55 – Guest: I haven’t heard of Test Café at all. 23:05 – Alyssa: Is the book online? 23:13 – Guest: It’s available through Manning Publications and Amazon. I think we have some codes to giveaway! 23:34 – Chuck: Yeah, we are working on those codes and giveaways. We have mentioned about 5 or 6 tools – are you worried about your book going out of date? 24:05 – Guest: Sure that is something we are worried about. When editing took a long time to get through that was one of my thoughts. The guest talks about Selenium, control flow, Protractor, 25:45 – Guest (continues): These new features were coming out while the book was coming out – so there’s that. What’s this thing about control flow and why this matters to you, etc. We were able to add that into the book, which is good. We were able to get those instructions out there. Books have a delay to them. 26:47 – Chuck: We talked about this in JavaScript Jabber. This guest talked about this and he is from Big Nerd Ranch. At what point do you have this breaking point: This isn’t a good fit for Test Café or Selenium BUT a good fit for Mocha or Jest? 27:27 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 28:04 – Guest: Do you have a reason why you would switch testing tools? 28:12 – Chuck. 28:41 – Guest: That’s the tradeoff as you move down the ladder. 29:43 – Panel: If you want to trigger an action that isn’t triggerable? 29:50 – Guest answers the question. 30:07 – Panel. 30:20 – Chuck. 30:33 – Guest: You can access code. Usually something in a workflow will make it happen. You have to fall back on some type of UI sort of thing. It’s almost like doing Tetris! I’ve never had to directly call something. I am not the best one to answer that. 31:16 – Panel: It’s like a weird mix of tests. 31:29 – Panelist is talking about unit testing and other tests. 31:55 – Chuck asks a question. 32:02 – Guest: It depends on the scale of your project. 32:28 – Chuck: Do you guys use a test coverage tool or on the side of: everything should run and then test if there is a bug. 32:43 – Guest: Coverage isn’t the full story. 33:26 – Panel: You said you weren’t a fan of the testing pyramid – can you explain why? 33:43 – Guest: I think it turns too much prescriptive. Guest: I think there are bigger concerns out there and the test pyramid is an over-simplification. 35:22 – Panel: What’s the difference between fast and slow testing? 35:28 – Guest: It really depends on your level of knowledge. If your test suite runs more than twenty minutes to an hour that is probably too slow! 36:03 – Alyssa. 36:09 – Chuck. 36:16 – Alyssa: There is no way that 20 minutes equals that! 36:26 – Guest: 20 minutes is the extreme limit.  36:51 – Chuck. 37:11 – Panel: Any new Twitter news on Trump? 37:21 – Panelist talks about test suites! 37:40 – Panelists and guests go back-and-forth. 38:11 – Chuck: Do you have any recommendations for the unit testing? Keeping it small or not so much? 38:29 – Guest: Think: What is this test asking? Don’t write tests that won’t fail if some other tests could have caught them. 39:04 – Alyssa: That’s smart! 39:09 – Guest continues. 39:28 – Chuck: What else to jump on? Chuck: Do you write your tests in typescript or in Java? 39:48 – Guest answers the question. He mentions Python, typescript, and more! 40:17 – Alyssa. 40:22 – Guest continues. 40:46 – Alyssa: How many people worked on that project? 40:50 – Guest: 2 or 3 framework engineers who did the tooling. About 20 people total for tooling to make sure everything worked. 41:18 – Panelist asks a question. 41:22 – Guest: About 20 minutes! 42:35 – Guest wants to talk about the topic: end-to-end testing! 44:59 – Chuck: Let’s do picks! 45:09 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly! Links: Vue jQuery Angular JavaScript Python React Cypress Puppeteer – GitHub Protractor Test Mocha.js Selenium C# GitHub: testcafe Istanbul “Protractor: A New Hope” – YouTube Video – Michael Giambalvo & Craig Nishina Book: “Testing Angular Applications” – Manning Publications Michael’s GitHub Michael’s Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Cache Fly Picks: Alyssa Fantastic Beasts Joe Skyward War of the Spider Queen Luxur - board game Testing Angular with Cypress.io Space Cadets Sonar Family Charles The DevRev Podcast Gary Vee Audio Experience Michael Scale Captain Sonar

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Ryan Chenkie This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Ryan Chenkie (Canada). He is a developer who uses JavaScript with Angular and Node and he does screencasting at angularcasts.io. They talk about Ryan’s background, his current projects, and getting over imposter syndrome! Check it out! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:47 – Chuck: Today our guest is Ryan Chenkie! 0:55 – Guest: Hello! I’m excited! 1:02 – Chuck: What are you doing now? 1:10 – Guest: I spent 2.5 years at Auth0 and learned a ton there. I was doing some side work and then figured out I had to focus on one thing or the other. Now I have been a consultant fulltime and also teaching, too. AngularCast.io I teach there. 1:56 – Chuck: Sounds like people are excited about GraphQL. I’ve been there, too, and make a similar decision. 2:19 – Guest: It was a hard decision b/c I liked all of my colleagues there. I always had the itch to be self-employed. 2:42 – Chuck: You figure out of it’s for you or not. 2:51 – Guest: Yep! I am happy to be another year of it. 3:00 – Chuck: I went free-lanced about a year ago b/c the decision was made for me. 3:29 – Guest: I am grateful for it. 3:40 – Chuck: Yeah, we talk about this a lot on one of my podcast platforms. If you can make a connection with people then you’ll be god. 4:07 – Guest: Yeah I had to figure out if I would have to focus on the marketing side of things or not. Right now the projects are coming to me – right to my front door, which is great! It’s this ever-expanding web. 4:55 – Chuck: Yeah where people tend to show-up. Let’s talk about your story! How did you get into programming? 5:30 – Guest: It was a little less typically at the time. I was fully self-taught. I went to school for a somewhat Geography degree. It got boring for me at some point. I had to do one programming course while in school and it was in Java. I was terrible at it and I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. It didn’t help that the instruction wasn’t great. I was terrible I didn’t understand a thing. I was scared that I was going to fail the course. I came out of there feeling like I didn’t have the chops to be a programmer. I was doing Geomantic-stuff. I learned that the further you get into this programming stuff you would make better money – better job, etc. I was trying to put this map/graph into a website and it said that I had to learn Java. This time, though, the material was taught to me in these small increments. I got into it more and I was more attracted to the idea of programming. 10:00 – Guest continues. 10:32 – Guest: I was learning Angular and JavaScript better. 10:35 – Chuck: Yeah it makes you think through it. You have to go deep. 10:47 – Guest: I would make a sample packet. I would get to certain points and get to a point and I couldn’t explain what I did. I would get to a roadblock and I couldn’t explain it. I would be on this tangent for a while and have to figure this out. I was working with the government, at this time, but I thought: maybe I could try this programming thing for a while. Did you go to NG Vegas conference? 12:20 – Chuck: Nope. 12:25 – Guest: There is this conference in Las Vegas – I am going to go and hang out with people. At this conference I met some important people. This company posted that they needed someone and I thought: this is the job for me. I sent an email – went to an interview – and did an example. I got the job and freaked out because I wasn’t a “real” programmer. I wrote some content for them and it’s been all good. 14:07 – Chuck: Let me back-up real quickly. How did you find Angular? 14:18 – Guest: It’s hard to pinpoint the “moment” I had found Angular. As I am learning through Code Academy I am reading articles and stuff. I heard about Angular.js and watched some online tutorials and watched all of the talks from the conference. I thought that I needed to learn it b/c it was pretty popular at the time. I knew how to write JavaScript, but made me clearly see with Angular.js app I had to back up and learn it. 15:34 – Chuck: Yep! 16:05 – The guest mentions Hacker News among other things. 16:22 – Chuck: Angular and Electron is what we brought you on for – is that what you are doing? 16:36 – Guest: The guest talks about his experiences with Angular and Electron. 18:26 – Chuck: Let’s backup some more – didn’t sound like you worked with a lot of tech companies right? 18:51 – Guest: Yep that was my only one. 18:57 – Chuck: I hear a lot of complaints from people having this imposter syndrome. You only being in the industry for a short amount of time – how did you overcome the imposter syndrome? 19:34 – Guest: Imposter syndrome has been an issue for me – I wasn’t crippled – but it’s debilitating. “Who am I to teach on this subject?” – but I think I’ve made conscious efforts to ignore that and to use it as a little bit as fuel. I remember, man, of being scarred! I remember being terrified to see the online comments – b/c they are going to “know” that I don’t know what I am talking about. Funny thing is that I had a lot of positive comments. Little-by-little, those positive pieces of feedback were good for me. I thought: At least I am helping people (like I said, little-by-little!). I think there has been a part of a loop there. If you can look for that feedback it can help overcome imposter syndrome. The things of value are the things that scare you.  22:41 – Chuck: Yeah, I talk about this all the time to people. I have been self-employed for 8.5 years. I am not going to starve. If I had to, I could go and find a “normal” job. 23:20 – Guest: I agree. One piece of feedback that I got from a colleague is that she said: you are very resourceful! Knowing that it helped b/c it was a boost of confidence. If I had this capacity of being resourceful that helped me make my decision. It wasn’t a good time in the sense that we just had a baby. If it went south then I could always go back and get a “normal” job. 24:43 – Chuck: Yeah we talk about that in Agile development – the further you go the more information you get. 24:58 – Guest. Yep 25:03 – Chuck: What are you doing now? 25:07 – Guest: I’ve had a few large clients these past few years. I have current projects going now one is with a museum. I am speaking at a few conferences – one of them was in San Francisco and Prague. Now I am planning for next year and figuring out what my teaching and speaking plans will be. It looks like I am focusing on Graph QL content. Lots of Angular, too! 26:32 – Chuck: You are web famous! 26:35 – Guest: I don’t know about that, but I do have some things out there. 26:42 – Chuck: How can people find you? 26:49 – Guest: Twitter! Website! GitHub! 27:18 – Chuck: Picks! 27:25 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv Code Academy Auth0 Scotch.io Ryan’s LinkedIn Ryan’s Packages Ryan’s Website Ryan’s Twitter Ryan’s GitHub Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Ryan Security Headers Try to push past the fear of being an “imposter”! Chuck Dungeons & Dragons Take time with family! Being handy around your home. Lowes. Surprise yourself and go beyond the imposter syndrome!

Panel: Charles Max Wood   Guest: Olivier Lacan    This week on My Ruby Story, Chuck talks with Olivier Lacan who works for Pluralsight remotely while living in France.  Chuck and Olivier talk about his background, his education, and how he got into Ruby. Check it out!    In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Get A Coder Job!   0:55 – Chuck: Hi! Can you update people where you are at now?   1:21 – Guest: I work on the Pluralsite remotely from France. (Check it out here!)   2:20 – Chuck: It feels like Pluralsite is offering new things for students. That’s nice!    2:30 – Guest: Yes, everyone has their own unique way to learn new things. Whether it’s through podcasts, reading, etc.    3:25 – Chuck.   3:32 – Guest.   4:01 – Chuck: RR 364 was the last episode that you’ve been on.    4:20 – The guest is talking about the changes that have occurred in only 7 months!   4:58 – Chuck: Let’s talk about you! How did you get into programming?   5:12 – Guest: Frustration is how I got into programming.   The guest talks in-detail about how he got into programming. What frameworks and languages he’s learned along the way.    31:24 – Chuck: I want to call out the fact that you said: I’ve failed. That’s good for people to hear.    31:40 – Guest.    31:49 – Chuck: If I’m not failing then I’m not pushing myself. How did you get into Ruby?   32:04 – Guest: Andrew Smith is how I got into Ruby. We met through Twitter! I was looking for croissants b/c I was homesick. His handler is @fullsailor! Check him out on Twitter here!    34:56 – Chuck talks about variables.   35:00 – Guest talks about Ruby and how he got into it.    36:50 – The guest talks about starting up a business with his friend (Chris) called Clever Code.    39:38 – Chuck: How did you get into Code School?    39:40 – Guest talks about his time in Orlando, FL.    40:05 – Guest mentions Rails for Zombies.   47:15 – Chuck: Nice! It’s interesting to see how you’ve gotten into it!   47:25 – Guest: Check out Pluralsight.   50:08 – Chuck: Some of the background I was there but there is so much more!   50:20 – Guest: There are so many lessons that I’ve learned a lot the way. There is so much luck involved, too. There are so many parts of this that is jumping onto an opportunity.    51:09 – Chuck: You showed up, so it wasn’t fully all luck, though!   51:20 – Guest: Yes, I agree. Finding accountability partners. It’s like going to the gym. Yes, self-motivation is a thing.    52:17 – Chuck: How can people find you?   52:20 – Guest: Twitter, GitHub, and my website!   53:00 – Advertisement – Fresh Books!    END – CacheFly   Links: Ruby Elixir Rails Rust Python PHP Bio for Olivier through PluralSight Twitter for Olivier Lacan GitHub for Olivier Lacan   Sponsors:  Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books   Picks: Olivier  Ruby Conf.  AutoLoad Reloder   Charles  Tile Last Man Standing  World Cup Sling TV Fox Sports  CES  

Panel: Charles Max Wood   Guest: Olivier Lacan    This week on My Ruby Story, Chuck talks with Olivier Lacan who works for Pluralsight remotely while living in France.  Chuck and Olivier talk about his background, his education, and how he got into Ruby. Check it out!    In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Get A Coder Job!   0:55 – Chuck: Hi! Can you update people where you are at now?   1:21 – Guest: I work on the Pluralsite remotely from France. (Check it out here!)   2:20 – Chuck: It feels like Pluralsite is offering new things for students. That’s nice!    2:30 – Guest: Yes, everyone has their own unique way to learn new things. Whether it’s through podcasts, reading, etc.    3:25 – Chuck.   3:32 – Guest.   4:01 – Chuck: RR 364 was the last episode that you’ve been on.    4:20 – The guest is talking about the changes that have occurred in only 7 months!   4:58 – Chuck: Let’s talk about you! How did you get into programming?   5:12 – Guest: Frustration is how I got into programming.   The guest talks in-detail about how he got into programming. What frameworks and languages he’s learned along the way.    31:24 – Chuck: I want to call out the fact that you said: I’ve failed. That’s good for people to hear.    31:40 – Guest.    31:49 – Chuck: If I’m not failing then I’m not pushing myself. How did you get into Ruby?   32:04 – Guest: Andrew Smith is how I got into Ruby. We met through Twitter! I was looking for croissants b/c I was homesick. His handler is @fullsailor! Check him out on Twitter here!    34:56 – Chuck talks about variables.   35:00 – Guest talks about Ruby and how he got into it.    36:50 – The guest talks about starting up a business with his friend (Chris) called Clever Code.    39:38 – Chuck: How did you get into Code School?    39:40 – Guest talks about his time in Orlando, FL.    40:05 – Guest mentions Rails for Zombies.   47:15 – Chuck: Nice! It’s interesting to see how you’ve gotten into it!   47:25 – Guest: Check out Pluralsight.   50:08 – Chuck: Some of the background I was there but there is so much more!   50:20 – Guest: There are so many lessons that I’ve learned a lot the way. There is so much luck involved, too. There are so many parts of this that is jumping onto an opportunity.    51:09 – Chuck: You showed up, so it wasn’t fully all luck, though!   51:20 – Guest: Yes, I agree. Finding accountability partners. It’s like going to the gym. Yes, self-motivation is a thing.    52:17 – Chuck: How can people find you?   52:20 – Guest: Twitter, GitHub, and my website!   53:00 – Advertisement – Fresh Books!    END – CacheFly   Links: Ruby Elixir Rails Rust Python PHP Bio for Olivier through PluralSight Twitter for Olivier Lacan GitHub for Olivier Lacan   Sponsors:  Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books   Picks: Olivier  Ruby Conf.  AutoLoad Reloder   Charles  Tile Last Man Standing  World Cup Sling TV Fox Sports  CES  

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Nicholas Zakas This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with Nicholas Zakas who is a blogger, author, and software engineer. Nicholas’ website is titled, Human Who Codes – check it out! You can find him on Twitter, GitHub, and LinkedIn among other social media platforms. Today, Nicholas and Chuck talk about Nicholas’ background, JavaScript, and current projects. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 1:00 – Chuck: Welcome! Give us a background, please, Nicholas! 1:14 – Guest: I am probably best known for making ESLint and I have written a bunch of books, too! (See links below.) 1:36 – Chuck: JSJ 336 and JSJ 075 episodes are the two past episodes we’ve had you on! (See links below.) Let’s go back and how did you get into programming? 1:58 – Guest: I think the first was written in BASIC, which was on a Laser computer. It was a cheaper knockoff version. I think I was into middle school when I got into BASIC. Then when I got into high school I did this computer project, which was the first time someone else used one of my programs. 4:02 – Chuck: Was it all in BASIC or something else? 4:13 – Guest: Just BASIC, but then transferred to something else when we got our first PC. 5:13 – Chuck: How did you get to use JavaScript? 5:18 – Guest: 1996 was my freshman year in college. Netscape 3 got into popularity around this time. I had decided that I wanted to setup a webpage to stay in-touch with high school friends who were going into different directions. I got annoyed with how static the [web] pages were. At the time, there was no CSS and the only thing you could change was the source of an image (on webpages). On the you could do... 8:35 – Chuck: You get into JavaScript and at what point did you become a prolific operator and author? 8:52 – Guest: It was not an overnight thing. It definitely was fueled by my own curiosity. The web was so new (when I was in college) that I had to explore on my own. I probably killed a few trees when I was in college. Printing off anything and everything I could to learn about this stuff! 10:03 – Guest (continues): Professors would ask ME how to do this or that on the departmental website. When I was graduating from college I knew that I was excited about the WEB. I got a first job w/o having to interview. 12:32 – Guest (continues): I got so deep into JavaScript! 13:30 – Guest (continued): They couldn’t figure out what I had done. That’s when I got more into designing JavaScript APIs. About 8 months after graduating from college I was unemployed. I had extra time on my hands. I was worried that I was going to forget the cool stuff that I just developed there. I went over the code and writing for myself how I had constructed it. My goal was to have an expandable tree. This is the design process that I went through. This is the API that I came up with so you can insert and how I went about implementing it. At some point, I was on a discussion with my former colleagues: remember that JavaScript tree thing I wrote – I wrote a description of how I did it. Someone said: Hey this is really good and you should get this published somewhere. Huh! I guess I could do that. I went to websites who were publishing articles on JavaScript. I went to submit the article to one of them. I think it was DevX or WebReference. 18:03 – Guest: A book is a compilation of different articles?! I can do that. I wanted to write a book that would fill in that next step that was missing. I didn’t know what the book was going to be, and I decided to start writing. Once I’ve had enough content I would take a step back and see what it was about. (Check out Nicholas’ books here!) 19:01 – Chuck: Oh you can turn this into a book! 19:10 – Guest: There was very little that I had planned out ahead of time. Anything that happened to me that was exciting had stumbled into my lap! 19:37 – Chuck: That’s how I felt about podcasting – it fell into my lap/life! 19:50 – Chuck: Listeners – check out the past episodes with Nicholas, please. Nicholas, what are you proud of? 20:10 – Guest: In 2006, I was at Yahoo and started off with My Yahoo Team. This was the first time that I was exposed to a massive amount of JavaScript in a single web application. 26:21 – Chuck: Can you talk about your health issues? People would definitely benefit from your example and your story. 26:44 – Guest: I think it is something important for people to understand. The guest talks about Lyme Disease. 35:49 – Chuck: Yep taking care of yourself is important! 36:00 – Guest: Yes to enjoy time with friends and explore other hobbies. Help yourself to de-stress is important. Cognitive work is very draining. When you aren’t getting the right amount of sleep your body is going to get stressed out. Take the time to do nonsense things. You need to let your brain unwind! I love these adult coloring books that they have! 38:07 – Chuck: I love to take a drive up the canyon. 38:12 – Guest. 38:24 – Chuck: Yeah to focus on ourselves is important. 38:36 – Guest: Your body will make it a point to say: pay attention to me! Your body goes into flight or fight mode and your systems shut-off, which of course is not good. You don’t want your body to stay in that state. New parents get sick frequently with newborns, because they aren’t getting enough sleep. 41:08 – Guest: Get some R&R! 41:20 – Chuck: This is great, but I have another call! Let’s do some Picks! 41:35 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular Vue.js JavaScript Ember Elm jQuery Node DevX WebReference Nicholas C. Zakas’ Books ESLint NPM – ESLint Signs and Symptoms of Untreated Lyme Disease Lyme Disease Nicholas’ Twitter JSJ 336 Episode with Zakas JSJ 075 Episode with Zakas Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: Charles Max Wood Wall Calendars – 6 ft. x3 ft. Nicholas Zakas Book: The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined by Steven Pinker Adult Coloring Books

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Nicholas Zakas This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with Nicholas Zakas who is a blogger, author, and software engineer. Nicholas’ website is titled, Human Who Codes – check it out! You can find him on Twitter, GitHub, and LinkedIn among other social media platforms. Today, Nicholas and Chuck talk about Nicholas’ background, JavaScript, and current projects. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 1:00 – Chuck: Welcome! Give us a background, please, Nicholas! 1:14 – Guest: I am probably best known for making ESLint and I have written a bunch of books, too! (See links below.) 1:36 – Chuck: JSJ 336 and JSJ 075 episodes are the two past episodes we’ve had you on! (See links below.) Let’s go back and how did you get into programming? 1:58 – Guest: I think the first was written in BASIC, which was on a Laser computer. It was a cheaper knockoff version. I think I was into middle school when I got into BASIC. Then when I got into high school I did this computer project, which was the first time someone else used one of my programs. 4:02 – Chuck: Was it all in BASIC or something else? 4:13 – Guest: Just BASIC, but then transferred to something else when we got our first PC. 5:13 – Chuck: How did you get to use JavaScript? 5:18 – Guest: 1996 was my freshman year in college. Netscape 3 got into popularity around this time. I had decided that I wanted to setup a webpage to stay in-touch with high school friends who were going into different directions. I got annoyed with how static the [web] pages were. At the time, there was no CSS and the only thing you could change was the source of an image (on webpages). On the you could do... 8:35 – Chuck: You get into JavaScript and at what point did you become a prolific operator and author? 8:52 – Guest: It was not an overnight thing. It definitely was fueled by my own curiosity. The web was so new (when I was in college) that I had to explore on my own. I probably killed a few trees when I was in college. Printing off anything and everything I could to learn about this stuff! 10:03 – Guest (continues): Professors would ask ME how to do this or that on the departmental website. When I was graduating from college I knew that I was excited about the WEB. I got a first job w/o having to interview. 12:32 – Guest (continues): I got so deep into JavaScript! 13:30 – Guest (continued): They couldn’t figure out what I had done. That’s when I got more into designing JavaScript APIs. About 8 months after graduating from college I was unemployed. I had extra time on my hands. I was worried that I was going to forget the cool stuff that I just developed there. I went over the code and writing for myself how I had constructed it. My goal was to have an expandable tree. This is the design process that I went through. This is the API that I came up with so you can insert and how I went about implementing it. At some point, I was on a discussion with my former colleagues: remember that JavaScript tree thing I wrote – I wrote a description of how I did it. Someone said: Hey this is really good and you should get this published somewhere. Huh! I guess I could do that. I went to websites who were publishing articles on JavaScript. I went to submit the article to one of them. I think it was DevX or WebReference. 18:03 – Guest: A book is a compilation of different articles?! I can do that. I wanted to write a book that would fill in that next step that was missing. I didn’t know what the book was going to be, and I decided to start writing. Once I’ve had enough content I would take a step back and see what it was about. (Check out Nicholas’ books here!) 19:01 – Chuck: Oh you can turn this into a book! 19:10 – Guest: There was very little that I had planned out ahead of time. Anything that happened to me that was exciting had stumbled into my lap! 19:37 – Chuck: That’s how I felt about podcasting – it fell into my lap/life! 19:50 – Chuck: Listeners – check out the past episodes with Nicholas, please. Nicholas, what are you proud of? 20:10 – Guest: In 2006, I was at Yahoo and started off with My Yahoo Team. This was the first time that I was exposed to a massive amount of JavaScript in a single web application. 26:21 – Chuck: Can you talk about your health issues? People would definitely benefit from your example and your story. 26:44 – Guest: I think it is something important for people to understand. The guest talks about Lyme Disease. 35:49 – Chuck: Yep taking care of yourself is important! 36:00 – Guest: Yes to enjoy time with friends and explore other hobbies. Help yourself to de-stress is important. Cognitive work is very draining. When you aren’t getting the right amount of sleep your body is going to get stressed out. Take the time to do nonsense things. You need to let your brain unwind! I love these adult coloring books that they have! 38:07 – Chuck: I love to take a drive up the canyon. 38:12 – Guest. 38:24 – Chuck: Yeah to focus on ourselves is important. 38:36 – Guest: Your body will make it a point to say: pay attention to me! Your body goes into flight or fight mode and your systems shut-off, which of course is not good. You don’t want your body to stay in that state. New parents get sick frequently with newborns, because they aren’t getting enough sleep. 41:08 – Guest: Get some R&R! 41:20 – Chuck: This is great, but I have another call! Let’s do some Picks! 41:35 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular Vue.js JavaScript Ember Elm jQuery Node DevX WebReference Nicholas C. Zakas’ Books ESLint NPM – ESLint Signs and Symptoms of Untreated Lyme Disease Lyme Disease Nicholas’ Twitter JSJ 336 Episode with Zakas JSJ 075 Episode with Zakas Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: Charles Max Wood Wall Calendars – 6 ft. x3 ft. Nicholas Zakas Book: The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined by Steven Pinker Adult Coloring Books

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Nicholas Zakas This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with Nicholas Zakas who is a blogger, author, and software engineer. Nicholas’ website is titled, Human Who Codes – check it out! You can find him on Twitter, GitHub, and LinkedIn among other social media platforms. Today, Nicholas and Chuck talk about Nicholas’ background, JavaScript, and current projects. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 1:00 – Chuck: Welcome! Give us a background, please, Nicholas! 1:14 – Guest: I am probably best known for making ESLint and I have written a bunch of books, too! (See links below.) 1:36 – Chuck: JSJ 336 and JSJ 075 episodes are the two past episodes we’ve had you on! (See links below.) Let’s go back and how did you get into programming? 1:58 – Guest: I think the first was written in BASIC, which was on a Laser computer. It was a cheaper knockoff version. I think I was into middle school when I got into BASIC. Then when I got into high school I did this computer project, which was the first time someone else used one of my programs. 4:02 – Chuck: Was it all in BASIC or something else? 4:13 – Guest: Just BASIC, but then transferred to something else when we got our first PC. 5:13 – Chuck: How did you get to use JavaScript? 5:18 – Guest: 1996 was my freshman year in college. Netscape 3 got into popularity around this time. I had decided that I wanted to setup a webpage to stay in-touch with high school friends who were going into different directions. I got annoyed with how static the [web] pages were. At the time, there was no CSS and the only thing you could change was the source of an image (on webpages). On the you could do... 8:35 – Chuck: You get into JavaScript and at what point did you become a prolific operator and author? 8:52 – Guest: It was not an overnight thing. It definitely was fueled by my own curiosity. The web was so new (when I was in college) that I had to explore on my own. I probably killed a few trees when I was in college. Printing off anything and everything I could to learn about this stuff! 10:03 – Guest (continues): Professors would ask ME how to do this or that on the departmental website. When I was graduating from college I knew that I was excited about the WEB. I got a first job w/o having to interview. 12:32 – Guest (continues): I got so deep into JavaScript! 13:30 – Guest (continued): They couldn’t figure out what I had done. That’s when I got more into designing JavaScript APIs. About 8 months after graduating from college I was unemployed. I had extra time on my hands. I was worried that I was going to forget the cool stuff that I just developed there. I went over the code and writing for myself how I had constructed it. My goal was to have an expandable tree. This is the design process that I went through. This is the API that I came up with so you can insert and how I went about implementing it. At some point, I was on a discussion with my former colleagues: remember that JavaScript tree thing I wrote – I wrote a description of how I did it. Someone said: Hey this is really good and you should get this published somewhere. Huh! I guess I could do that. I went to websites who were publishing articles on JavaScript. I went to submit the article to one of them. I think it was DevX or WebReference. 18:03 – Guest: A book is a compilation of different articles?! I can do that. I wanted to write a book that would fill in that next step that was missing. I didn’t know what the book was going to be, and I decided to start writing. Once I’ve had enough content I would take a step back and see what it was about. (Check out Nicholas’ books here!) 19:01 – Chuck: Oh you can turn this into a book! 19:10 – Guest: There was very little that I had planned out ahead of time. Anything that happened to me that was exciting had stumbled into my lap! 19:37 – Chuck: That’s how I felt about podcasting – it fell into my lap/life! 19:50 – Chuck: Listeners – check out the past episodes with Nicholas, please. Nicholas, what are you proud of? 20:10 – Guest: In 2006, I was at Yahoo and started off with My Yahoo Team. This was the first time that I was exposed to a massive amount of JavaScript in a single web application. 26:21 – Chuck: Can you talk about your health issues? People would definitely benefit from your example and your story. 26:44 – Guest: I think it is something important for people to understand. The guest talks about Lyme Disease. 35:49 – Chuck: Yep taking care of yourself is important! 36:00 – Guest: Yes to enjoy time with friends and explore other hobbies. Help yourself to de-stress is important. Cognitive work is very draining. When you aren’t getting the right amount of sleep your body is going to get stressed out. Take the time to do nonsense things. You need to let your brain unwind! I love these adult coloring books that they have! 38:07 – Chuck: I love to take a drive up the canyon. 38:12 – Guest. 38:24 – Chuck: Yeah to focus on ourselves is important. 38:36 – Guest: Your body will make it a point to say: pay attention to me! Your body goes into flight or fight mode and your systems shut-off, which of course is not good. You don’t want your body to stay in that state. New parents get sick frequently with newborns, because they aren’t getting enough sleep. 41:08 – Guest: Get some R&R! 41:20 – Chuck: This is great, but I have another call! Let’s do some Picks! 41:35 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular Vue.js JavaScript Ember Elm jQuery Node DevX WebReference Nicholas C. Zakas’ Books ESLint NPM – ESLint Signs and Symptoms of Untreated Lyme Disease Lyme Disease Nicholas’ Twitter JSJ 336 Episode with Zakas JSJ 075 Episode with Zakas Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: Charles Max Wood Wall Calendars – 6 ft. x3 ft. Nicholas Zakas Book: The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined by Steven Pinker Adult Coloring Books

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Ryan Chenkie This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Ryan Chenkie (Canada). He is a developer who uses JavaScript with Angular and Node and he does screencasting at angularcasts.io. They talk about Ryan’s background, his current projects, and getting over imposter syndrome! Check it out! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:47 – Chuck: Today our guest is Ryan Chenkie! 0:55 – Guest: Hello! I’m excited! 1:02 – Chuck: What are you doing now? 1:10 – Guest: I spent 2.5 years at Auth0 and learned a ton there. I was doing some side work and then figured out I had to focus on one thing or the other. Now I have been a consultant fulltime and also teaching, too. AngularCast.io I teach there. 1:56 – Chuck: Sounds like people are excited about GraphQL. I’ve been there, too, and make a similar decision. 2:19 – Guest: It was a hard decision b/c I liked all of my colleagues there. I always had the itch to be self-employed. 2:42 – Chuck: You figure out of it’s for you or not. 2:51 – Guest: Yep! I am happy to be another year of it. 3:00 – Chuck: I went free-lanced about a year ago b/c the decision was made for me. 3:29 – Guest: I am grateful for it. 3:40 – Chuck: Yeah, we talk about this a lot on one of my podcast platforms. If you can make a connection with people then you’ll be god. 4:07 – Guest: Yeah I had to figure out if I would have to focus on the marketing side of things or not. Right now the projects are coming to me – right to my front door, which is great! It’s this ever-expanding web. 4:55 – Chuck: Yeah where people tend to show-up. Let’s talk about your story! How did you get into programming? 5:30 – Guest: It was a little less typically at the time. I was fully self-taught. I went to school for a somewhat Geography degree. It got boring for me at some point. I had to do one programming course while in school and it was in Java. I was terrible at it and I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. It didn’t help that the instruction wasn’t great. I was terrible I didn’t understand a thing. I was scared that I was going to fail the course. I came out of there feeling like I didn’t have the chops to be a programmer. I was doing Geomantic-stuff. I learned that the further you get into this programming stuff you would make better money – better job, etc. I was trying to put this map/graph into a website and it said that I had to learn Java. This time, though, the material was taught to me in these small increments. I got into it more and I was more attracted to the idea of programming. 10:00 – Guest continues. 10:32 – Guest: I was learning Angular and JavaScript better. 10:35 – Chuck: Yeah it makes you think through it. You have to go deep. 10:47 – Guest: I would make a sample packet. I would get to certain points and get to a point and I couldn’t explain what I did. I would get to a roadblock and I couldn’t explain it. I would be on this tangent for a while and have to figure this out. I was working with the government, at this time, but I thought: maybe I could try this programming thing for a while. Did you go to NG Vegas conference? 12:20 – Chuck: Nope. 12:25 – Guest: There is this conference in Las Vegas – I am going to go and hang out with people. At this conference I met some important people. This company posted that they needed someone and I thought: this is the job for me. I sent an email – went to an interview – and did an example. I got the job and freaked out because I wasn’t a “real” programmer. I wrote some content for them and it’s been all good. 14:07 – Chuck: Let me back-up real quickly. How did you find Angular? 14:18 – Guest: It’s hard to pinpoint the “moment” I had found Angular. As I am learning through Code Academy I am reading articles and stuff. I heard about Angular.js and watched some online tutorials and watched all of the talks from the conference. I thought that I needed to learn it b/c it was pretty popular at the time. I knew how to write JavaScript, but made me clearly see with Angular.js app I had to back up and learn it. 15:34 – Chuck: Yep! 16:05 – The guest mentions Hacker News among other things. 16:22 – Chuck: Angular and Electron is what we brought you on for – is that what you are doing? 16:36 – Guest: The guest talks about his experiences with Angular and Electron. 18:26 – Chuck: Let’s backup some more – didn’t sound like you worked with a lot of tech companies right? 18:51 – Guest: Yep that was my only one. 18:57 – Chuck: I hear a lot of complaints from people having this imposter syndrome. You only being in the industry for a short amount of time – how did you overcome the imposter syndrome? 19:34 – Guest: Imposter syndrome has been an issue for me – I wasn’t crippled – but it’s debilitating. “Who am I to teach on this subject?” – but I think I’ve made conscious efforts to ignore that and to use it as a little bit as fuel. I remember, man, of being scarred! I remember being terrified to see the online comments – b/c they are going to “know” that I don’t know what I am talking about. Funny thing is that I had a lot of positive comments. Little-by-little, those positive pieces of feedback were good for me. I thought: At least I am helping people (like I said, little-by-little!). I think there has been a part of a loop there. If you can look for that feedback it can help overcome imposter syndrome. The things of value are the things that scare you.  22:41 – Chuck: Yeah, I talk about this all the time to people. I have been self-employed for 8.5 years. I am not going to starve. If I had to, I could go and find a “normal” job. 23:20 – Guest: I agree. One piece of feedback that I got from a colleague is that she said: you are very resourceful! Knowing that it helped b/c it was a boost of confidence. If I had this capacity of being resourceful that helped me make my decision. It wasn’t a good time in the sense that we just had a baby. If it went south then I could always go back and get a “normal” job. 24:43 – Chuck: Yeah we talk about that in Agile development – the further you go the more information you get. 24:58 – Guest. Yep 25:03 – Chuck: What are you doing now? 25:07 – Guest: I’ve had a few large clients these past few years. I have current projects going now one is with a museum. I am speaking at a few conferences – one of them was in San Francisco and Prague. Now I am planning for next year and figuring out what my teaching and speaking plans will be. It looks like I am focusing on Graph QL content. Lots of Angular, too! 26:32 – Chuck: You are web famous! 26:35 – Guest: I don’t know about that, but I do have some things out there. 26:42 – Chuck: How can people find you? 26:49 – Guest: Twitter! Website! GitHub! 27:18 – Chuck: Picks! 27:25 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv Code Academy Auth0 Scotch.io Ryan’s LinkedIn Ryan’s Packages Ryan’s Website Ryan’s Twitter Ryan’s GitHub Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Ryan Security Headers Try to push past the fear of being an “imposter”! Chuck Dungeons & Dragons Take time with family! Being handy around your home. Lowes. Surprise yourself and go beyond the imposter syndrome!

Panel: Charles Max Wood   Guest: Olivier Lacan    This week on My Ruby Story, Chuck talks with Olivier Lacan who works for Pluralsight remotely while living in France.  Chuck and Olivier talk about his background, his education, and how he got into Ruby. Check it out!    In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Get A Coder Job!   0:55 – Chuck: Hi! Can you update people where you are at now?   1:21 – Guest: I work on the Pluralsite remotely from France. (Check it out here!)   2:20 – Chuck: It feels like Pluralsite is offering new things for students. That’s nice!    2:30 – Guest: Yes, everyone has their own unique way to learn new things. Whether it’s through podcasts, reading, etc.    3:25 – Chuck.   3:32 – Guest.   4:01 – Chuck: RR 364 was the last episode that you’ve been on.    4:20 – The guest is talking about the changes that have occurred in only 7 months!   4:58 – Chuck: Let’s talk about you! How did you get into programming?   5:12 – Guest: Frustration is how I got into programming.   The guest talks in-detail about how he got into programming. What frameworks and languages he’s learned along the way.    31:24 – Chuck: I want to call out the fact that you said: I’ve failed. That’s good for people to hear.    31:40 – Guest.    31:49 – Chuck: If I’m not failing then I’m not pushing myself. How did you get into Ruby?   32:04 – Guest: Andrew Smith is how I got into Ruby. We met through Twitter! I was looking for croissants b/c I was homesick. His handler is @fullsailor! Check him out on Twitter here!    34:56 – Chuck talks about variables.   35:00 – Guest talks about Ruby and how he got into it.    36:50 – The guest talks about starting up a business with his friend (Chris) called Clever Code.    39:38 – Chuck: How did you get into Code School?    39:40 – Guest talks about his time in Orlando, FL.    40:05 – Guest mentions Rails for Zombies.   47:15 – Chuck: Nice! It’s interesting to see how you’ve gotten into it!   47:25 – Guest: Check out Pluralsight.   50:08 – Chuck: Some of the background I was there but there is so much more!   50:20 – Guest: There are so many lessons that I’ve learned a lot the way. There is so much luck involved, too. There are so many parts of this that is jumping onto an opportunity.    51:09 – Chuck: You showed up, so it wasn’t fully all luck, though!   51:20 – Guest: Yes, I agree. Finding accountability partners. It’s like going to the gym. Yes, self-motivation is a thing.    52:17 – Chuck: How can people find you?   52:20 – Guest: Twitter, GitHub, and my website!   53:00 – Advertisement – Fresh Books!    END – CacheFly   Links: Ruby Elixir Rails Rust Python PHP Bio for Olivier through PluralSight Twitter for Olivier Lacan GitHub for Olivier Lacan   Sponsors:  Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books   Picks: Olivier  Ruby Conf.  AutoLoad Reloder   Charles  Tile Last Man Standing  World Cup Sling TV Fox Sports  CES