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2 episodes with biblical prophets
2 episodes with biblical prophets
2 episodes with biblical prophets
6 episodes with biblical prophets
When the Bear Family finds themselves overbooked and running late, they turn to one of the Biblical Prophets(?) to solve(??) the lateness problem(???). It’s “The Berenstain Bears Bears On Time Solving The Lateness Problem!”
In Episode 161 of Theology In Particular, I'm joined again by Dr. Joshua Henson to discuss the Old Testament prophets and their message to Israel and the nations. This is episode four in a four-part series: Part 1 – A Paradigm For Reading The Old Testament Prophets Part 2 – The Prophetic Message To Israel And Its Fulfillment In Christ, The True Israel Part 3 – The Prophets, The Noahic Covenant, And The Nations (Part 1) Part 4 – The Prophets, the Noahic Covenant, And The Nations (Part 2) Resources: 1. How to Read and Understand the Biblical Prophets 2. Prophetic Oracles of Salvation in the Old Testament 3. Basic Forms of Prophetic Speech 4. Divine Covenants and Moral Order Contact: For information about International Reformed Baptist Seminary, go to irbsseminary.org. For feedback, questions, or suggestions, email Joe Anady at tip@irbsseminary.org.
In Episode 160 of Theology In Particular, I'm joined again by Dr. Joshua Henson to discuss the Old Testament prophets and their message to Israel and the nations. This is episode three in a four-part series: Part 1 – A Paradigm For Reading The Old Testament Prophets Part 2 – The Prophetic Message To Israel And Its Fulfillment In Christ, The True Israel Part 3 – The Prophets, The Noahic Covenant, And The Nations (Part 1) Part 4 – The Prophets, the Noahic Covenant, And The Nations (Part 2) Resources: 1. How to Read and Understand the Biblical Prophets 2. Prophetic Oracles of Salvation in the Old Testament 3. Basic Forms of Prophetic Speech 4. Divine Covenants and Moral Order Contact: For information about International Reformed Baptist Seminary, go to irbsseminary.org. For feedback, questions, or suggestions, email Joe Anady at tip@irbsseminary.org.
gospel song,health talk,sermon.
On today's episode, Jonathan and Sy are talking all about conspiracy theories with Matt Lumpkin, a former minister and software developer. They discuss:- Asking what it is that conspiracy theories accomplish for the people who believe them- Why White Evangelicals are so susceptible to conspiracy theories right now- The importance of churches helping people develop critical thinking, rather than outsourcing belief systems to authority figures- How we can help people let go of conspiracy theories- And after the interview, a fascinating conversation about despair in the face of violence like that in Palestine, prioritizing the vulnerable, and Albert CamusMentioned in the Episode- Our anthology, Keeping the Faith- Matt's website, Mattlumpkin.com- Matt's Instagram- The podcast episode on Palestine and CamusCredits- Follow KTF Press on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. Subscribe to get our bonus episodes and other benefits at KTFPress.com.- Follow host Jonathan Walton on Facebook Instagram, and Threads.- Follow host Sy Hoekstra on Mastodon.- Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.- Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.- Editing by Multitude Productions- Transcripts by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.- Production by Sy Hoekstra and our incredible subscribersTranscriptIntroduction[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes, the first three ascending and the last three descending – F#, B#, E, D#, B – with a keyboard pad playing the note B in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Matt Lumpkin: You notice almost all of these conspiracy theories provide a way to stay in the old way of thinking and being. They want to make America great again. They want to go back to a time when things made sense, when White people were powerful, and no one questioned their gender. They want to go back, right? [laughs] And if you look at the prophets, the biblical prophets, yes, they're interested in what happened before, but they're more interested in saying, how do we move forward from this? As I try to sift through and make sense of who are the voices that are worth listening to, one of the litmus tests I use is, does it ask anything from me? If the story only makes me feel good, if it only affirms my existing Identity, then that's a red flag for me.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: Welcome to Shake the Dust, seeking Jesus, confronting injustice. I'm Sy Hoekstra.Jonathan Walton: And I'm Jonathan Walton. Get ready for an incredible interview from our series where we're bringing on authors from the anthology we published in 2020, Keeping the Faith: Reflection on Politics & Christianity in the Era of Trump & Beyond. Today, we're talking all about the world of right-wing conspiracy theories with Matt Lumpkin [laughs]. But don't worry, it's nowhere near as depressing as it sounds [Sy laughs]. Matt is really interested in figuring out how people make meaning out of their lives and circumstances, so we focus on what the benefits of believing in conspiracy theories are for the people who subscribe to them, why Conservative White Christians are so susceptible to conspiracy theories in this historical moment, and what we are learning from comparing conspiracy theories with biblical prophets and a whole lot more.Sy Hoekstra: It's a really good conversation. Matt actually does a pretty good job of taking us through his bio in the conversation, so I won't do that now, except to say he's a Fuller Seminary grad who worked as a hospital chaplain for a while and then actually made his way into the world of software development. So that is what he does now. His essay in our anthology was called “What Job Is a Conspiracy Theory Doing?” And you can find the anthology at www.keepingthefaithbook.com. After the interview with Matt, hear our thoughts on the interview, plus our segment Which Tab Is Still Open, diving a little bit deeper into one of the recommendations from our free weekly newsletter. Today, we're talking about a really interesting podcast episode comparing the French Algerian War to the violence in Palestine right now, all through the lens of the Algerian philosopher Albert Camus. You don't want to miss that one, it'll be a fascinating conversation.Before we dive in, like we've been saying, we need your support, and we need it now. If you like what you hear and read from KTF Press and you want it to continue beyond this election season, please become a paid subscriber at KTFPress.com that's our Substack, and share our work with anyone you think might be interested. If you're already a paying subscriber, consider upgrading to our founding member tier.And if the price to subscribe is too high and you want a discount, just write to us at info@ktfpress.com. We'll give you whatever discount you want, no questions asked. Every little bit helps. Subscribers get all the bonus episodes of this show, monthly Zoom discussions with the two of us and a lot more. So please go sign up at KTFPress.com and become a paid subscriber and join us in seeking Jesus and confronting injustice. Thank you so much.Jonathan Walton: All right, let's get into our interview with Matt Lumpkin.[the intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: Matt Lumpkin, thank you so much for being with us on Shake the Dust today.Matt Lumpkin: I'm so glad to be here. It's great to meet both of you. I've been a fan of y'all's work since I learned about you and started following the publishing, but also some of Jonathan's work on Instagram. I learn things from almost every post, so really appreciate that.Jonathan Walton: I appreciate that. Thanks so much.Sy Hoekstra: It's very nice to talk to you not in emails and document comments on your essays or whatever [laughter].Matt Lumpkin: Yeah. Well, it was a lovely process working with you all on the book chapter, and I love asynchronous first working patterns, so that makes me very happy. But it's great to actually be chatting and get to learn a little bit more about you guys and talk a little bit more about some of the stuff that you want to get into.How Matt Started Thinking about the Ways People Make Meaning in Their LivesMatt Lumpkin: Just a bit about me up front. So raised very Evangelical, very fundamentalist, frankly Baptist, with a [laughs] very Pentecostal grandmother. So right out the gate, you have two frameworks [laughs] who don't agree on what's true, but are both family [laughter]. So that's my religious upbringing. And then I spent early years in my career working as a hospital chaplain. I also spent some time living outside the country, taught English in Indonesia and traveled around Southeast Asia and all of those things. When I actually did end up in grad school at Fuller Theological Seminary, I had a lot of questions [laughs]. I had a lot of big questions around, how does a religion work? How do people make meaning? How do people put their meaning-making frameworks together and this language of what job is this doing? These are questions I've been asking for a long time in the course of my time at Fuller. I was there for about a decade studying part time and then working, doing a lot of online course design, and a lot of building and experimenting with online spaces, building mobile apps to test out different psychological principles, and all the way into building products.There's a product now called Fuller Equip that's still alive and kicking that I designed and built with several colleagues. So in my early career, I brought all those questions to Fuller, which is a very Evangelical space, but also a pretty… Fuller is like a bridge.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Matt Lumpkin: It's a bridge from where you start to, usually somewhere different. And then a lot of people walk across that bridge, and they look back and they're like, “Man, why is this place so like still connected to that place I came from?” And it's like, because it's a bridge [laughter] and it needs to still be there so that other people can walk across. But so much goodness came from my time there, and just in terms of really expanding my understanding. I had a very narrow idea of what calling meant, a very narrow idea of what I meant to be faithful to God. And that in my mind [laughs], by the time I was 14 years old, that meant I need to be a pastor, preacher in a small church like the kind I grew up in.And it was at Fuller where I really… and my work in, all different kinds of work in early life, especially as a chaplain, was about finding a space to be faithful to that calling and that identity, while also being the person that I am who's endlessly curious about people, endlessly curious about how do things work, and what's really going on versus what people say is going on, and just how do people think about things in their own way. So in the course of doing that work, I found my way into designing software. All kinds of software, from websites and mobile apps to now in the last five or six years, I've been working on diabetes software and supporting people who live with type 1 as well as type 2 diabetes.And all those same skills I bring to bear of getting into the mindset of other people, really deeply trying to enter their world and understand what does it look like. What are the problems, what are the pain points, and then what might actually move the needle to change it? But this background in studying religion formally, studying psychology, studying cultural anthropology, these lenses are all things that I use in my work as a designer, but also [laughs] in my attempts to make meaning of this rapidly evolving landscape we live in.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Asking What Job a Conspiracy Theory Does for its BelieversSy Hoekstra: Yeah. Speaking of how things operate in people's minds versus how they say things are operating [laughter], let's jump right into your essay, which is all about conspiracy theories. And your kind of framework for understanding conspiracy theories is right there in the title, it's what job is a conspiracy theory doing? So I just want to start with, when you hear Trump talking about having the election stolen, or you hear someone talking about QAnon or whatever, why is the question, “What job is this theory doing?” the basis for how you understand what's going on with that person?Moving to Empathy and Curiosity Instead of AngerMatt Lumpkin: Yeah. So there's a few reasons. One is to move me to a space of empathy, because I don't know about you all, but I get real mad [laughs] at times about some of the just really hurtful and harmful ideas that get spread around that have no basis in fact very often, and actively harm people. It's one thing to make up a story that makes you feel good if that doesn't hurt anybody else, but a lot of these stories really create a lot of harm. So this is a step for, it's a pragmatic step for me to step out of anger, frustration, let me just push you away to get curious of what is going on here? Because so many of the stories, I think I talk about the lizard people [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Yes.Matt Lumpkin: That one takes me back to V. Did you guys watch V in the 80s? There was this lizard people, body snatchers, terrible, I don't recommend it. These people unzipping like masks and there are lizards underneath.Jonathan Walton: Yes! I do remember that. Yes [laughter].Matt Lumpkin: It terrified me as a kid. I walked in the living room one time and saw it. That's always where my mind goes when I hear those stories and I think, “Wow, how could you believe this?” So the question of, “What job is this doing?” is a way to get me out of my judgmental reactive and into getting curious about this person and what is it doing. It also connects to my work as a designer. There's a framework that we use in design called “jobs to be done” and thinking about digital products. And basically, you ask yourself, “If this piece of software were going to get hired to do this job, what would it need to do? What are the jobs to be done? And what would it get fired over?” Like if you don't do this thing, are you going to lose the job?So kind of a way of moving out of the emotional space and into the curiosity space. But also when I say the way that they say something is different from the way that they think it, we all do this. We all have cognitive biases we're unaware of, and it's not like anybody's a particular failure for having a bias that they don't see. So when I talk to people about the software that I've designed, I'm not just going to ask them, “Do you like it?” People will always tell you, “Yeah, yeah, I like it.” I have lots of strategies that I use to get behind that and understand on a more deeper level like, is this doing the job for you?What Do Conspiracy Theories Accomplish for People Who Believe Them?Matt Lumpkin: So when I came to these conspiracy theories and was just hearing these things I just couldn't fathom why or how someone come to that conclusion, what was the context? It was the pandemic. We were in the midst of the pandemic and a lot of this was happening. All the rules and the maps that people had to make sense of their world were not working anymore. And as a person who's lived outside the US and experienced culture shock directly, when your maps don't work, it is profoundly disorienting.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Matt Lumpkin: You feel like a child again.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Matt Lumpkin: You feel really vulnerable because you don't know how to act in a way that makes sense. I believe that that sense of disorientation, cultural disorientation, social disorientation, religious disorientation, that is the driver. That's what makes people reach out and grab onto these ideas. And frankly, I think it's what makes con men and people who are aware of this dynamic pop up. These periods of time are ripe for cons because people are looking for a way to get their feet under them again, so to speak, in a world that feels confusing and uncertain. So that's a number of different things. It's empathy, it's about moving to curiosity and away from anger, and it's also just pragmatically, what's going on here?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah [laughs].Matt Lumpkin: What's the real value? What's the real driver here? Because it's doing something for you, whether you're conscious of it or not. People don't change their minds easily until the pain of changing your mind is more than the pain of holding on to the original ideas. So I think a lot of these conspiracy theories or strategies are ways of hanging on to old ideas that are unraveling, and they're ways of saying, we can discount this proof for this evidence here because the conspiracy supplies this idea of, “Well, the conspiracy is designed to hide things from here. It's designed not have evidence so it's okay if we don't have evidence.” Has all these logic loopholes that get people out of the normal social contract that we have when we talk in public [laughter] saying things that are true.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Matt Lumpkin: Or saying things that can be checked or are credible. And I think the broader challenge that we're in is… You know, I got into working in technology after studying church history and understanding that the printing press is really a catalyst of the complete social and political upheaval of Europe.Jonathan Walton: Right.Matt Lumpkin: It's that moment that breaks the way people put meaning together, because it suddenly increases literacy and increases the speed in transmission of ideas. And I woke up and realized we are in the middle of a Gutenberg moment here. We are 25, 30 years into the internet, and we're just beginning to see the epistemic crisis, the crisis of how we know what we know really come to fruition.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Matt Lumpkin: So I think that's the broader context of wanting to get curious about this, because that's the broad context. The narrow context is pandemic, the narrow context is like… there's lots of other things that push people to this feeling of disorientation.Jonathan Walton: Right.Just Providing Correct Facts Won't Change MindsMatt Lumpkin: And so I'm looking for, how is the thing that you believe that is obviously wrong or factually disprovable to me, what does it do for you? Because just pounding on people with facts has been scientifically shown to not change people's minds.Jonathan Walton: [laughs] Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense.Matt Lumpkin: It will not work.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. What you just said makes sense, yet we love to do it.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: Right? [laughs] We love to just pelt people with answers.Matt Lumpkin: Some of us do, some of us have minds that are more… and I'm guilty. I have this deep internal need that's probably related to ways in which my brain may not be 100 percent standard equipment[Sy laughs]. This internal need to make things consistent. Like if I encounter a new piece of information that doesn't match my map of the world, I've got to figure out how the information is wrong, or I've got to change my map. And I can't really rest until I've done it. But that's not most people. And there are parts of my life and thinking where I don't do that as rigorously, but there's a lot public space safety questions, questions of [laughs] science and medicine, those are ones in which I do need my model to be accurate, because those models have literally saved the lives of people that I love. Like the practice of science, the scientific methods saved my daughter's life when she was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes.We knew before the doctors did, because we gathered data, we gathered evidence, and then we were able to show that evidence. So it satisfied our way of knowing, like we measured it. It's not just family worries. It's not just parents being nervous. It's grounded in real observation that we can then hand you. But there's a lot of domains where people aren't used to doing that kind of rigor.Why Are White Evangelicals So Susceptible to Conspiracy Theories Right Now?Mat Lumpkin: As we think about the Evangelical context, one of the things I explore in the essay is why are Evangelicals particularly, do they seem to be particularly vulnerable to these kinds of erroneous claims or conspiratorial claims? I feel that that's true, and I started to pay more attention to it when I noticed other non-Christian journalists were noticing.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Matt Lumpkin: Like, “Hmm, the Evangelicals are really buying this QAnon to our surprise. Outside it doesn't seem it would match,” same with a lot of Trumpism.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Matt Lumpkin: A lot of Trump's ideology and way of being in the world seems very antithetical to what popular conceptualization of Jesus followers would be, and yet, it's working. So why? What job is it doing?Jonathan Walton: I'd love for you to dive deeply into that. Why do you think White Evangelicals are particularly susceptible right now?Matt Lumpkin: Thank you for that correction as well. Because I do think that it is a specific challenge to White Evangelicals, and I don't see it spreading and being shared in the same way among Evangelicals that I know that are not White.Discouraging Critical Thinking about What Authority Figures SayMatt Lumpkin: So a couple of things. One, just a general lack of rigor in how you know what you know. And why would Evangelicals have a lack of rigor and how they know it? Why would they? It's a tradition that literally emerged from people, the deep Protestant move to want to read the Bible for yourself and, but what does that do? That centers the self and the individual in the private prayer time, in the quiet time, as the source of authority.If you want to go deeper into that space, and I say this as somebody who has many Pentecostal folks in my family who was raised in no small part by my Pentecostal grandmother, and my mom, her faith is deeply shaped by Pentecostalism. But that tradition really centers the individual experience of the deity and of their experience of God as a source of truth and authority. Well, you hang around with more than one Pentecostal and you're going to find you get differing accounts of what God might be saying in any given time.Jonathan Walton: Yes [laughs].Matt Lumpkin: So that kind of flexibility and fuzziness, and in folks that move in these spaces, they're really clever at saying, “Well, that didn't mean this, it meant this now, now that I know this other thing”Sy Hoekstra: Yeah [laughs].Matt Lumpkin: So it's very changeable in a way that's very coherent with the way that you see a lot of QAnon folks or a lot of other conspiracy theorists say, “Well, we got this piece of evidence, and so now what we said last week doesn't work anymore, but don't worry, I've got a new way to read Revelation that actually accounts for it” [Jonathan laughs]. And so that practice and that move being modeled by leaders and authority figures in these churches creates this receptivity to a kind of very, I want to use the word lazy, but that's maybe a bit harsh, but it's a lack of rigor in questioning, “What did you tell me last week [laughs], and what did you tell me this week, and why is it not the same?”Authoritarian Methods of Learning TruthMatt Lumpkin: And all of that stems from what I would say in many churches is an authoritarian epistemology.Sy Hoekstra: I was going to say it's kind of a lack of accountability, which goes along with authoritarianism.Matt Lumpkin: Yeah. I think I touched on this briefly in the essay that, when your foundation of what you know is because an authority told you, who that authority is claiming that it comes straight from God or it comes straight from the source who's deeply embedded in the deep state, those are both parallel claims. Like, “I've got a direct line, so you can trust me.” But that is a very brittle way of building a model of reality, because you're not doing it yourself. You've outsourced it to the authority, in spite of any claims you might be making to doing your own research. It's a way of saying, “Well, I can't read the text in its original Greek or Hebrew, so I'm just going to outsource that to somebody who can.” “Well, I can't understand necessarily these theological concepts, so I'm just going to trust my pastor to do that.”Well, once you get in the habit of outsourcing all these things that are at the root of your most deeply held beliefs about reality and truth, then that's a move that you're accustomed to making. And it's a dangerous move, because without a practice of critical thinking and of questioning for yourself, critical thinking is the immune system for your mind. If you don't have it, you won't notice that it's getting colonized or infected with bad ideas.Jonathan Walton: A thousand percent [laughter].Matt Lumpkin: And you won't be able to spot those infections as they make you sick and as they make your communities sick. I think what we're seeing right now is a time in which a lot of these ideas and these ways of… it's not just ideas, it's ways of thinking and ways of knowing that are very, very changeable and very flexible and fluid. They lack a certain rigor. That's happening because, why? Because people are reaching out for a way to hang on to the old map. You notice almost all of these conspiracy theories provide a way to stay in the old way of thinking and being. They want to make America great again. They want to go back to a time when things made sense, when White people were powerful and no one questioned their gender.They want to go back [laughs]. And if you look at the prophets, which is in the chapter that we're discussing here, the biblical prophets, yes, they're interested in what happened before, but they're more interested in saying, “How do we move forward from this?” As I try to sift through and make sense of who are the voices that are worth listening to, the people that are interested in trying to understand how we got where we are today, so that we can understand how we can get out of this mess, what actions we can take. Those are the voices that I think are more… One of the litmus tests I use is, does it ask anything from me? If the story only makes me feel good, if it only affirms my existing identity, then that's a red flag for me, because it's only flattering me.Now, on the flip side, if you read the book of Revelation, that book is written to a community that it's trying to encourage that community that's being marginalized, it's suffering. And it does ask some things of that community, but it's also trying to celebrate. So there aren't really easy and clean [laughs] answers on which voices you can trust, you have to do the work of doing your own critical thinking. But I think Evangelicals in general have been discouraged in many churches from doing any critical thinking at all, because it undermines the authority of the lead pastor or the leadership team or whomever…Sy Hoekstra: The denomination or whoever.Jonathan Walton: …that they've outsourced all of this work to.Matt Lumpkin: Yeah. And that might seem… I've been to seminary, I have a Master's of Divinity degree. I get frustrated when people don't listen to my authority [laughter]. You work in any number of church settings and you realize you don't want them to. What you really want is you want to teach people how to build their own faith and their own meaning using these tools, and do it in community, so that we can check each other's work.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Matt Lumpkin: In my early work as a hospital chaplain, I spent a year doing spirituality support groups with the folks that were in the lockdown unit in the psych ward.Sy Hoekstra: Oh wow.Matt Lumpkin: So we're talking about doing spirituality groups with people that have schizophrenia, that have bipolar disorder, that sometimes in their mind hear the voice of God telling them to do things. Now, how do you help a person like that connect with their faith, now that their very way of knowing or having that connection is now called into question? It's a hard problem, but that's really where I started to wake up to this reality of the problematic nature of, “God talks to me, and then I go do a thing.” There are lots of stories in the Bible where that happens, and some of them are terrifying, but it is always an interpretive choice that we make to say that, “I had an experience, and I believe it was God speaking to me,” best done in community with people that you trust.I kind of wish Abraham had talked to some of his community of faith before taking Isaac up on the hill. That's a terrifying story of somebody not raising questions about what they thought they heard from God.Conspiracy Theorists vs. Biblical Prophets; Blaming “Them” vs. Inviting IntrospectionSy Hoekstra: The community point is very well taken, and also you've said it, but I want to just highlight it for the audience, because I think that the point about profits versus conspiracy theorists being the people who require something of you versus the people who require nothing of you is so important. And you are right, it is so within the culture of Evangelicalism, definitely within the culture that I grew up in, to say that everything that is wrong with the world is because of those people out there, and has nothing to do with us, and we do not need to reflect, we do not need to change, they need to become like us. And that is that colonial type of faith that you were just talking about. Everyone else needs to become like me, and then the world would be fine.Matt Lumpkin: That's a litmus test.Sy Hoekstra: It's a litmus test, but I also want to highlight the prophets being the people who against what everybody else, not what everybody else, but what in many cases everybody else in their society wanted them to do, we're suggesting the problem here might actually be us [laughter], and we need to take some time and think about how it might be us, and have some real reflection as a community. And that is actually what God wants us to do. So having a faith that is oriented around that versus a faith that is oriented around blaming the world for everything, those are faiths that go in polar opposite directions. And I want that to be everyone's red flag [laughs] is what I'm saying, and I really appreciated when you made that point your essay.Matt Lumpkin: As a designer, we use “how might we” questions when we don't know the answer [laughs]. How might we encourage faith communities to develop a healthy critical thinking and awareness of religious abuse and manipulation? I mean, religion is powerful. It's how many, many of us, most humans, make sense of their reality and situate themselves in the cosmic story and understand who they are and what their life is about. And yet it is so often used to manipulate people, to sway people, to create specific emotional experiences for people, so that whoever's doing the manipulation can get something that they want. And how might we create communities of faith that are resilient against manipulation, resilient against co-option by, I like y'all's term “colonial power” or “colonized faith?”I think it's a great lens to think about the ways in which the Evangelical tradition, which when I teach my kids about where Evangelicals came from, because I've studied this church history, abolition, that was Evangelicals. So many of the really positive expressions, I think, of Christian faith have also been a part of this tradition. So how did we get co-opted by fear and a desire to go back in time to some imagined past? How did so many churches and church people get co-opted in that way? I talk a little bit about the first time I encountered it. I'm 42, dispensationalism was around, but it wasn't a part of my church community.Sy Hoekstra: Which is just, briefly, for people who don't know.Matt Lumpkin: Yeah. Dispensationalism is the idea that… oh boy. So it's pretty young as a theological movement, I think, around 100 years. And in fact, it's a really great propaganda strategy if you want to have your religious idea emerge from the grassroots, you just print up a Bible, a study Bible. Scofield Study Bible has a lot of these connections drawn for pastors. They gave them away, they printed them up and shipped them out to pastors all across the country. Twenty years later, lots of people came up with dispensationalism, simultaneously invented. It's a really great propaganda strategy, worthy of Dune [laughter]. It laid those foundations early. But it only took 20 years in America for this idea, and this idea being that Jesus is going to come back and take away the faithful, but then real bad stuff's going to happen on earth, trials and tribulations are going to happen.And then in some versions there's a showdown with Jesus and Satan, in other versions there's not. Then it gets pretty divergent, and you can find really cool maps of this in old bookstores where people try to map it out because it's impossible to explain.Jonathan Walton: Yeah [laughs].Matt Lumpkin: And then the churches that I was around in my early theological study were obsessed with arguing over whose version of dispensationalism was right. And then you dig into it and you're like, this is a novel idea [laughs], it doesn't even go back very far in church history. So it's a great example of a way a theological concept takes hold and then gives people a lot of busy work to do, to go home and read Scripture and try to mix and match and come up with a way that makes sense of it. So The Late Great Planet Earth was the antecedent to the Left Behind books, which were big time when I was in college. And all of that is based on this idea of dispensationalism, that there's going to be an antichrist arise and then all these switcheroos and people get taken away [laughs].Like the rapture, it literally comes from the same word that we get raptor, the birds of prey, because some people are snatched away, not a good image. I don't want to be taken like that actually. That doesn't seem a positive [laughter]. So all this to say, those ideas, when did they emerge? They emerged during the Cold War. They emerged when kids were having to duck and cover under the [laughs] idea that's going to save you from an atomic blast. Like real terrifying existential stuff going on that causes people to look around and say, “This is causing me anxiety. I am terrified all the time. How can I not be terrified?” And a lot of these moves, they go back, or they look for a scapegoat to blame.And that's really, I think, one of the most harmful and most important litmus tests to hang on to. I don't like the word litmus test. I would call these heuristics. They're strategies you can use to understand something, questions you can ask yourself, like who's paying for this? Who benefits from this? What does this demand of me? Who's at fault? Who's to blame here? If the persons to blame are somebody you already feel disgust or separation from, that should be a red flag. Because we know that the human mind feels emotions before it knows why it feels them, and then this narrative kicks in to try to make sense of why do I feel these emotions? And I think a lot of how the conspiracy theories work, particularly the really deeply dark ones around pedophilia, around…Sy Hoekstra: Cannibalism.Matt Lumpkin: …cannibalism.Jonathan Walton: Cabal.Matt Lumpkin: Yeah, and a lot of those, they draw on really, really deeply held old, long, deep human history social taboos. We don't eat other people. Children are off limits as sexual partners. These are deeply held boundaries on civilization, on humanity, on even having any kind of community at all. So once you say, my opponent, the enemies, once you make them into something so horrible…Jonathan Walton: Lizard drinking blood people [laughs].Matt Lumpkin: …then it justifies the disgust you already felt towards somebody that you didn't like. So that's another way of thinking about this, of not falling for this trap of somebody coming along and saying, “You know what, your life is messed up. You are disempowered. You don't have the same cultural power and influence you had before. You can't enjoy just talking to your grandkids without worrying about offending them, and it's because of those people and their secret agenda that you can't actually know about, but I'm going to tell you about because I know,” and then what job does that do? It makes you feel justified in the things you already felt and thought. It makes you feel angry, and it makes you feel you were right all along.Feeling like you were right all along almost never [laughs] results in good actions. [laughter] When it turns out, everything I already thought was right, that's not a great place from which to get closer to truth.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, and there's a lot of gold in what you're saying, but something standing out for me is I can feel strongly about something without thinking deeply about it.Matt Lumpkin: Oh, yeah.Jonathan Walton: So Hillary Clinton can be a lizard person who drinks the blood of children to stay alive. That's much easier than saying she's actually just somebody who benefits from systems of powers and structures that have put her in place her the majority of her life, and she's responsible for the deaths of a lot of people. But not drinking the blood of children, but like drone attacks. You know what I mean? But one requires thoughtfulness and doesn't engender those same feelings, because we don't have compassion for folks in the Middle East. I have compassion for folks in South America, but I can feel strongly about this 500 year old cabal that she's a part of and that Obama and Oprah and all them are.Matt Lumpkin: You've been reading more of that than I have. I don't know all that [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Hey man, hey man, you know, some of us got to do it so other people don't [laughter].Matt Lumpkin: Yeah.How Can We Help People Let Go of Conspiracy Theories?Jonathan Walton: But as we're engaging with these things, and I'm sure you're going to get to it, but what are some ways that you've actually seen people let go of this stuff, and how can we move towards those people in love instead of judgment, the way that you've been sharing about being empathetic?Maintaining Relationships with Conspiracy Theorists Is KeyMatt Lumpkin: I have to tell you guys, I don't think I'm particularly good at this. I have learned from some other people that I think are better at it than me. One is the thing we've talked about, about getting curious. This is just a good, this is Matt's unsolicited advice for all humans, whenever you're getting mad, pause and get curious. That's a good move to make. Getting out of the deep emotion space and into the curiosity space of what's going on here? What's really happening? Why am I feeling this?Jonathan Walton: Right.Matt Lumpkin: Why are you feeling this? What's really motivating this? But the second one is, it may feel good to want to dunk on people with facts, because it's so easy [laughs] with so many of these things, but it doesn't actually result, dunking on people rarely results in closer relationships. There are times where I think it's important to push back against direct untruths that if spread can actively harm people. But the way you want to think about it is how can I say this and keep our relationship? Because what has been shown to work to get people to move out of some of these terrible ideas is relationships with people who don't share them. Because once all of your relationships are comprised of people who share this shared reality, that's an intersubjective reality that is mutually reinforcing.All those people are thinking the same things and talking the same things and thinking under the same reality, and it will make that reality more real. So just being in someone's life and existing and being the sort of person that isn't dismissible. For your listeners that are good Bible readers, go read the Gospels again. Watch how Jesus stays uncondemnable by the rules of phariseeism, so that he can transgress the rules of phariseeism in a way that upends them, in a way that challenges them. If he was just like, “Well, this is all terrible. None of this is true,” and just lived a way that, they would say, “Well, we can't take this man seriously. This person's not a person of faith. He's not even following the law.”But no, he carefully stays comprehensible to them as a participant in their community, so that when he does transgress on purpose with intention, a thing that needs to be challenged, he can't be dismissed. So staying in the lives of these people, and this is hard work, because some of the rules and the ways in which they put their world together are nonsensical. They don't match, they don't fit together.Jonathan Walton: Right.Matt Lumpkin: So you can't do it perfectly, but staying a person that has not rejected them, and staying in relationship with them while holding on to your reality and talking about it. It's not enough that the reality just lives in your mind. You have to bring it out into the world and make it real for them, so that you become a problem [laughs] for them that they have to resolve.Sy Hoekstra: Well, I had two quick things to say about that. One is the point about throwing facts at people. If you have asked the question of what job is this conspiracy theory doing, and you have answered that question, then you will realize that throwing facts at people is not going to address that problem.Matt Lumpkin: You've just taken away the thing that was fixing something for them, and now they're not going to let go of it easily because you've not offered anything better.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, and the problem is still there. Their problem wasn't insufficient facts.Matt Lumpkin: [laughs] Right.Sy Hoekstra: So that's one thing. And the other thing is talking about having close relationship with people and being credible and all that, I think that just emphasizes a point that we made before in this show, which is that if you are in a dominant group on a hierarchy, it's easier for you to do that. It is easier for White people to talk to other White people about racism and to remain credible and to maintain your close relationships, and to be able to talk about things that maybe your racist cousin would never talk about with Jonathan. You know what I mean? And that goes for anything. Able-bodied people talking about disabled people or whatever, checking people who use ableist language. So I just wanted to draw those two points for our listeners out of what you were saying.Matt Lumpkin: I think that's really important. And I think that any advice that I'm offering here is offered from the perspective of somebody who enjoys a lot of power and privilege. As a White, cis het man in America, in my middle age, I am at the height of my power and privilege. So the question that I ask myself is, I learned early on in life, I can't give the power that these corrupt cultural institutions have given me away. I can try, but they just give it back [Sy laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes.Matt Lumpkin: So how might I use that power to amplify the voices of people that don't have it, that don't enjoy it? Those are questions that I come back to and need to come back to more and more. And frankly, the less risk I take, I take less risk for me to challenge those ideas. But I think again, the challenging… and I get it. I get mad and I want to shatter these false realities. When I get in a space of anger, I want to burn it down. I want to reveal the falsity of it. But burning down a shelter someone has made for their psyche is rarely a gateway to a continued relationship [laughter]. So instead, the metaphor that I like to use, and I use this even when I was working in churches and doing adult Bible study, it's a metaphor of renovation.We all have rotten boards in our faith house and in our own psychological house, the shelter that we use to face the challenges of reality. We all have things that could be improved, and it's easier to take somebody walks through and says, “Oh, I think you've got little bit of dry rot over here. I got some time this week, you want me to help you work on that? I think we could fix it.” There's a really, really great passage over in Jeremiah that could really help us shore this up. That's a better way than saying, “You know what, I came over and you're living in a house full of rotten garbage, and I just burned it down for you.” That's less helpful.Jonathan Walton: Right.Asking What Evidence Would Prove the Conspiracy Theory Is False?Matt Lumpkin: Finally, I think the thing that, and I looked for the source on this, I couldn't find it. And if I find it, I'll let you know.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Matt Lumpkin: But I heard a guy being interviewed, and he had done a lot of work scientifically in this area. If you can't tell I care a lot about science. I care a lot about how you know what you know. Scientific method is important to me. But he had said that basically, there aren't a lot of good strategies for getting people to let go of these ideas, but one that has been shown to be successful is to ask more questions. And to ask questions about, “Okay, well, why do you think that? How did you come to this conclusion?” To get curious with the person of how they came to these conclusions. And then when you hear things that are factually untrue, ask like, “Okay, well, what evidence would you accept?”So the move is this, you get curious, you ask questions, you get more data on why they think what they think. You offer some counter evidence that challenges some of the false foundations. When they don't accept it and they won't, then the move is, if you don't accept that evidence, what evidence would you accept that would actually change your mind? And that question can become the seed of doubt in the conspiracy theory thinking. Why? Because conspiracy theories are self-authenticating. There is no evidence that can show them to be false. And so telling somebody that isn't the same as them coming to that conclusion on their own and then feeling a little bit conned.At least for what I understood from this gentleman, the most successful paths are not making the leap for them, but leading them up to the leap to understand that they're locked in.Jonathan Walton: Right.Matt Lumpkin: And a lot of folks that really these theories appeal to, they appeal to them because they feel empowering. “I'm choosing this, I'm believing against the mainstream.” So once they start to realize that they're locked in a system that they can't actually ever get out of, because no evidence would convert them out of it, that's a bad feeling.Where to Find Matt's WorkSy Hoekstra: Interesting. Matt, before we let you go, can you tell people where they can find you on the internet, or what work of yours you would want them to check out?Matt Lumpkin: I do a lot of stuff at www.mattlumpkin.com, that's where most of some of the stuff that I write goes. If you want to see pictures of the paintings that I'm working on or the furniture that I'm designing [laughs], which is unrelated to our conversation, that's on, mostly on Instagram. But I don't have any way for people to subscribe, I don't have a Substack or anything like that. So I do post on Instagram when I have a new piece up, so that's one way you can sort of keep up.Sy Hoekstra: Awesome.Jonathan Walton: Nice.Sy Hoekstra: Matt is a jack of all trades [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Nice.Matt Lumpkin: Life's too short to do one thing.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] Matt, thank you so much. This has been a wonderful conversation. We really appreciate you coming on and for being a part of the anthology.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, man.Matt Lumpkin: Thank you so much. And I just want to say again, thank you for the work that you're doing in decentering us White guys and centering the voices of people of color, of women. I saw your recent episode you were highlighting the challenges around birth and women of color. I'm so inspired by the way that you guys are bringing together these real deep awareness and understanding of the hard problems that we face, and also keeping that connected to communities of faith and people who are striving to be faithful to the life and teachings of Jesus.Sy Hoekstra: Thank you so much, Matt. We really appreciate that.Jonathan Walton: I appreciate that, man. Thanks so much.[the intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Jonathan Walton: att's handle on Instagram is @mattlumpkin, and we'll have that link plus his website in the show notes.Sy's and Jonathan's Thoughts on the InterviewJonathan Walton: All right Sy, what are you thinking about that interview?Sy Hoekstra: Too much [Jonathan laughs].Conspiracies vs. Prophecies Is a Crucial DistinctionSy Hoekstra: Well, okay, I have two main thoughts that I would like to highlight. One of them, I just once again, I would like everybody in the world to be making the distinction between prophets and conspiracy theorists [laughter] in terms of what people are asking you to do with the stories they're telling you. If they're asking you to do nothing except oppose all of the evil that is out there in the world, versus asking you to examine yourself and see how you can change and make the world a better place. If everybody in the world was on the lookout for that, man, we would be in a better place [laughs] in our society.Addressing How Conservatives Would Process This ConversationBut second, I just wanted to address some tension that I sometimes feel when we're having conversations like this that I'm sure other people feel as well.In conversations like these and a lot, we're talking about conservatives or White Evangelicals or people who believe in conspiracy theories or whatever. It's conversations about these people. These people over here, who we are not a part of. And we're trying to be humane by understanding what it is that, what makes them tick, what it is that puts them into the places where they are. But it's always from our perspective, how did they get into the position where they are so wrong. That's really what we're asking. And we're not just asking that about people who are involved in QAnon, we're asking that about just kind of everyday conservative White Evangelicals or White Christians of any kind, or lots [laughs] of people who just subscribe to whiteness, who may or may not actually be White.But the people who actually hold those positions would not really see this conversation as humane. They would mostly see it as condescending. They would mostly see it as, “You trying to understand how I got to the place where I'm so wrong, is not you being generous or kind, it's you being kind of a jerk.” [laughs]How to Think about the Narratives We Have about People We Disagree withSy Hoekstra: And the thing that I always have to remember, and I just wanted to kind of flag this for our listeners, is that really that is kind of just the nature of disagreeing. Anybody who disagrees about anything has some story, conscious or not about why the other person is wrong. That's just the nature of the diversity of thought, just having people who disagree about stuff. That's going to be what happens in a society, you're going to be making up stories about the other people and why they disagree with you.But what you get the choice of doing is trying to understand people the best you can, or dehumanizing them and attributing bad faith to them. Or saying, “Oh, the reason you think that is because of, I don't know, you're just those people.” I'm not trying to come up with any coherent psychological framework that makes sense of where you are. I'm just saying, “Ah, you're just a bunch of racists.” Or it could be, “Oh, you're just Black people. You're just inferior.” Anything like that. Anything that's dehumanizing, whatever, you can choose to do that, or you can choose to understand people as best you can, given the reality that you disagree with them and think that they're wildly wrong and that their views are harmful. So I just want everyone to remember that. Everyone's doing this, it's just about how you go about it. I don't know. I hope other people also sometimes feel that tension and I'm not just addressing no one, but that was a thought that I thought it might be worth sharing. What do you think, Jonathan?Jonathan Walton: Well, I mean, it is very possible to disagree with someone without disrespecting or dehumanizing them.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: That is possible, but the amount of work that that takes, most of us are unwilling to do at this point in time. And what's sad about that is, and I think a couple of things that stood out to me, is that the main point of what he said in the essay he wrote for the anthology, and this is like, what am I going to gain if I hang out with this conspiracy theory? What am I going to keep, what am I going to get? What am I going to maintain if I believe this, and then if I not just think it, but believe it, and then act like it's true, and then enforce that reality on other people, what do I gain? And that to me, I think stands out to me because humanity, particularly though anyone upstream of a power dynamic has shown just an incredible capacity to enforce things that are not true to maintain power, authority, privilege and resources.Our Ability to Lie to Ourselves to Maintain OppressionOur capacity to innovate, to maintain lies, is fascinating. So when he talked about the Pentecostal who says Jesus is coming back in 1988 on January 13, and then Jesus doesn't show up, they got another revelation, and they don't lose any followers.Sy Hoekstra: This is in the essay, not in the interview.Jonathan Walton: Oh, so sorry.Sy Hoekstra: No, it's fine.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, but just that constant innovation and the individualization of your relationship with God, to the point that there's this entire reality that's constructed, and to deconstruct that reality would be so disorienting that we would rather just function as though it is true. So that confirmation bias where we then go seek out information then it sounds true, and so we add it to our toolkit to maintain our reality, that to me feels, and I need to think about this more, but feels at the root of a lot of injustices.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, yeah.Jonathan Walton: So it's like, I won't change this, because it would change everything about my life, and I'd rather just not change. So I'm going to keep it this way. So whether it's men and patriarchy, able-bodied folks and disabled folks, Black folks and everybody else, wealthy people and poor people, we'd just rather not change. So I'm just, I'm not going to do that. And then Newt Gingrich said, “Well, it doesn't feel true, so the facts don't matter.”Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And that to me stood out. And then Kellyanne Conway, an iteration of him just coming back and saying, that just saying “alternative facts.” Like what are we talking about? [laughs] In some world that feels plausible, and because it feels plausible, it must be true. And then their entire apparatuses, religious, political, social, familial, built around protecting these realities. And if we could just shake ourselves away from that, that would be wonderful. But it is... [laughs] I mean, when Jesus says, “You shall learn the truth, and the truth shall set you free,” there is just freedom in living in the truth, like what is actually there. So the last thing I'll say is I appreciated his emphasis on the reality that truth and knowing happens in community.It does not happen like me going to the mountain, getting it, then coming down and living unaccountable to anyone. This is not how it works. I say this in every single prayer workshop I do, the Lord's Prayer starts off “Our Father,” not “My daddy” [Sy laughs]. It just doesn't start like that [laughs]. So how can we have a more collective, communal relationship with God and one another?Sy Hoekstra: The thing you just said about the skill of being able to maintain falsehood, it feels particularly important to me in maintaining systems of oppression after they've been built. Because they're usually built on a lie, and then at some point that lie can get exposed and that can threaten the whole system, but the system can survive by evolving. We've talked about this before. You can get rid of slavery, but the essential lie behind slavery stays and justifies every Jim Crow and segregation and the Black Codes and sharecropping and all that. So there's a refining almost of how good you can get at lying to people until you have a not insignificant number of people talking about lizard people [laughs].And it's just I'm almost sometimes impressed by how skilled evil is at understanding humanity. Does that make sense? [laughter]Jonathan Walton: Well, I mean, not to quote myself. In Twelve Lies I talked about how whiteness, White American folk religion, race-based, class-based, gender-based hierarchy is forever innovating. And the current container is in the United States of America, and it's being perfected.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, it's forever innovating, and it's good at it. That's what I'm saying. Which is why we spend so much time emphasizing how much you have to keep learning and being alert and praying. I'm going to say everything except “stay woke” [laughter]. Any other thoughts or should we get to our segment?Jonathan Walton: The only other thing I would say, and I almost started a whole thing about this, was just the importance of critical thinking. Just basic being willing to ask, why? Like, hey, Hillary Clinton is actually part of a race of lizard people that drink children's blood to get this chemical that's going to make them eternal. Why do you believe that [Sy laughs]? Like a person, a real human person went to a pizza place with a gun. That is a real thing that happened. Folks show up and ask questions. Like we cited this resource in a newsletter probably three years ago where the New York Times did this amazing podcast called Rabbit Hole. And this young man who worked an overnight job stocking shelves in one of the Midwestern states listened to podcasts every single night. Podcast and YouTube videos that drove him to become an extremist. And then he changed his podcast diet, he changed his YouTube diet, and then he realized, you know what, maybe I don't have to be afraid of everybody. He just started asking, why.There are people around him that said, “Hey, why do you believe the things that you do? Why are you becoming more afraid? Why do you feel the need to arm yourself? What do you think is going to happen?” Just people asking him questions, and he was willing to engage. So friends, just to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. We can think. And that would be just a wonderful thing to push back against the anti academy thing that exists within modern Evangelicalism and most patterns of dominant religious thought.Sy Hoekstra: We can think, and that would be a wonderful thing. That's the pull quote.Jonathan Walton: [laughs] Right.Sy Hoekstra: That's the t-shirt [laughs].Jonathan Walton: That's true.Which Tab Is Still Open?Sy Hoekstra: All right. Jonathan, let's get into our segment, Which Tab Is Still Open, where we dive a little bit deeper. We're really shifting gears here from conspiracy theories [laughs] to Albert Camus, where we dive a little bit deeper into one of our recommendations from our newsletter. That newsletter is free at KTFPress.com. Get recommendations from us on discipleship and political education each week, along with resources to help you stay grounded and hopeful, news about KTF Press, all kinds of other great stuff at www.ktfpress.com. Jonathan, for you, out of all the stuff we've been writing about in the newsletter, Which Tab is Still Open, can you tell us about it?Jonathan Walton: Okay, friends, we are going from not thinking at all to thinking very deeply. Okay?Sy Hoekstra: Yes [laughter].Jonathan Walton: So this episode of a podcast called The Gray Area, where the host Sean Illing talks with a historian and philosopher, Robert Zaretsky about the politics and the ethics of Algerian philosopher Albert Camus. Again, we're going to think really hard, so go with me. Camus lived through the colonial occupation and the French annexation of Algeria. And he also lived through the violent struggle between Algerian rebel forces and the French army. He opposed France's policies of discrimination and oppression of the Algerian people, but never fully endorsed Algerian independence. So leftists thought of him as a moderate. Keep going with me, okay?He also believed that killing was wrong no matter who was doing it, and that neither the rebels nor the French had a monopoly on truth. But he was not abstract. He thought that violence was inevitable. He just couldn't justify it being used against innocent people, even in the name of freedom. He was not at all abstract or a systemic thinker. Like a lot of European philosophers, he was grounded in reality of day to day suffering that he had lived, and his conviction was that it was simply wrong.Prioritizing Vulnerable People in the Halls of PowerSo as I listened to this episode, the thing that just fascinated me about Camus is that it is possible to hang out in the biggest halls of academic power, to win awards, as he did for his literature and novels and essays, but to stay grounded in the village, to stay grounded in the community, to stay grounded in reality.Because I think something that struck me, my daughter does gymnastics and she got the chance to go to a state competition, and I was walking with her through a college campus, it was her first time on a college university campus. And I thought to myself, the distance between where my daughter is right now and the quote- unquote, grandeur of this university is all false. The reality is, these are just kids. This is the same kid that was in the neighborhood an hour ago that drove to this place to do flips and tricks in this new gym. The walls might be shinier, the mats might be cleaner, it may be a bigger stage, but the reality is we are just people doing the same things together in a different venue.So Camus, even though he was at a university, held the village with him, even though he was at a newspaper, held the village with him. Even though people were pushing back against him, held the village with him. So how can I Jonathan Walton, Ivy League educated person, or you listening with whatever background you have, hold fast to the reality that the things we say and do impact vulnerable people? I can't just say that there's an invasion at the southern border and not think that there are implications to that. I can't just say, grab women by their genitals. I can't just say that and not think that something's going to happen. The reality of the things that I say and the things that I do impacts people downstream of me is something I have to hold fast to.And just what Camus said, violence is inevitable and totally unjustifiable. I think that felt to me as one of the truest things I've heard in a very long time, is that, do I think that all of a sudden, on this side of heaven, violence is going to stop? No. At the same time, could I ever justify in the name of Jesus, violating the image of God in someone else for whatever cause? No, I cannot, because Jesus didn't do it. If violence was justifiable, then Jesus absolutely would have joined Peter and started the revolution, or did it beforehand, which I wrote about. If I was Jesus, I would have slapped Zacchaeus so hard in the moment.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] Wait, Zacchaeus?Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I wrote a piece called “Jesus Didn't Slap Zacchaeus” [Sy laughs]. Just that reality of even before Pilate, because, you know, there's other things happening with Pilate. But it's like if I was Jesus and Zacchaeus is standing right there. He stole money from my family for years and years and years and years. He betrayed our people. He did all that. And he's short, he's standing there, I'm stronger than him, the crowd is behind me. Pow! I would have done it and felt totally justified. But Jesus doesn't do that, just like he doesn't throw himself off the cross and start the revolution. Just like he doesn't call angels to intercede and do things on his behalf. He stays in line with his vision and mission and calling because he knows the cup that he has to drink. And so Camus messed me up.Sy Hoekstra: The thing that I wanted to highlight from the podcast was a story that I think the guests, I think Zaretsky told about Camus being confronted by a student from Algeria saying, “Why aren't you supporting the rebel forces who are fighting the French? Why haven't you, in an outspoken way, said that what they're doing is good?” And he says, “Look, at this very moment they are placing bombs under tram cars in Algiers, and my mother could be on one of those tram cars. And if what they are doing is justice, then I prefer my mother.”Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: And I think that's kind of what you're talking about. Just this, he just had this wall in his mind where he's like, “You cannot, you can't kill my people and call it justice, and call it goodness. I will not let you do that.” And that's, I'll talk about this in a minute, the place that he leaves you in politically and morally and whatever, is very difficult, but you got to respect the integrity [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes, absolutely. A thousand percent. The other thing that I really appreciate about this podcast is that Sean Illing, when he opens the podcast, addresses a reader or a listener who sent him a handwritten letter asking him why he had not addressed Israel, Palestine. And I respect him, and I respect his answer. And I suspect that other journalists and politicians are being confronted, whether on Instagram or not like, “Why aren't you doing x, y and z?” So I just appreciated Sean's, I'm talking about him like I know him, Sean Illing's candor and honesty to open the podcast. I think it just set the tone, really, really well.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, I totally agree with that.Jonathan Walton: So Sean, I mean, Sean, what do you think? So Sy, what do you think about the podcast? [laughs]Sy Hoekstra: I, Sean Illing, believe… [Jonathan laughs] Yeah, no, this podcast had me deep in my feelings is what I'm saying.Despair about Violence and Hope without Answers are Both BiblicalSy Hoekstra: First of all, I don't say this a lot, but I think French existentialism might actually be a decent way to respond to Pale
A new MP3 sermon from Bridwell Heights Presbyterian Church is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Biblical Prophets Called by God: Samuel Subtitle: 1 Samuel Series Speaker: Patrick Hines Broadcaster: Bridwell Heights Presbyterian Church Event: Sunday - AM Date: 6/16/2024 Bible: 1 Samuel 3:1-21 Length: 49 min.
A new MP3 sermon from Bridwell Heights Presbyterian Church is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Biblical Prophets Called by God: Samuel Subtitle: 1 Samuel Series Speaker: Patrick Hines Broadcaster: Bridwell Heights Presbyterian Church Event: Sunday - AM Date: 6/16/2024 Bible: 1 Samuel 3:1-21 Length: 49 min.
The post Biblical Prophets: The Office and The Purpose appeared first on Torah Class.
What is the difference between New Age psychics and Biblical prophets? Doreen Virtue, Jenn Nizza, and Jac Marino Chen discuss mediumship versus Biblical prophecy and how to be equipped to spot the false prophets that Jesus said would arise. - VIDEOS DISCUSSED IN EPISODE - Why You Should Trust The Bible: https://www.youtube.com/live/FMp94yqaD_U?si=q1lhEfWWyignNER2 -- We are thankful to be part of the B.A.R. Podcast Network https://theartofworship.net/bar/ You can also watch New Age to New Heart on AGTV https://www.watchagtv.com/new-age-to-new-heart-doreen-virtue-jenn-nizza-jac-marino-chen -- Follow the hosts! Doreen: https://www.youtube.com/@Doreen_Virtue?sub_confirmation=1 Jenn: https://www.youtube.com/@Expsychicsaved?sub_confirmation=1 Jac: https://www.youtube.com/@JacMarinoChen?sub_confirmation=1 -- Listen on Spotify and Apple Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5j3pGPMVFmvACRkFcZ2UV6?si=20c29d01e1314012 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-age-to-new-heart/id1729436855 -- @Doreen_Virtue Doreen Virtue was a top-selling New Age author with heretical publications in 38 languages by various publishers, appearances on Oprah, and sold-out international workshops before God graciously saved her in 2017. @Expsychicsaved Jenn Nizza is a former professional psychic medium and new age teacher, who lived in the darkness of the occult from a very young age and was finally set free by the amazing grace of our Lord and Savior at 37 years of age. Jenn dedicates her life to the Lord now and uses her social media platforms, including TikTok, to expose the new age /occult. Jenn has published two books, “From Psychic To Saved” and “Out Of The New Age and Into The Truth,” and is currently writing her third book. Jenn also hosts the Ex-Psychic Saved podcast where she invites guests who have also been rescued by Jesus out of the New Age. From Psychic To Saved: https://a.co/d/eIfAqw4 Out Of The New Age and Into The Truth: https://a.co/d/7MVmgQ2 @JacMarinoChen Jac Marino Chen comes from a past of sexual abuse, drug and alcohol addiction, the new age, the occult, and eventually practicing ritual magic in a Freemason lodge as a member of an occult order. It was there that Jesus Christ saved her, revealed to her the darkness she was in, delivered her, and made her new.
In this episode, Jake and David discuss the book 'How to Read the Biblical Prophets' by Peter Gentry. They explore the unique writing style of the Hebrew prophets, which often uses repetition and recursive writing to convey their messages. The prophets' predictions are based on the judgments outlined in the Torah, and they often use types and typology to connect past events with future ones. The use of apocalyptic language is another tool the prophets employ to describe the future. Overall, the book provides valuable insights into understanding and interpreting the biblical prophets. In this conversation, Jake and David discuss the use of vague language in prophecy and how it relates to the context and audience. They explore the idea that prophets used what they had at hand to describe events, even if it meant being vague. They also examine the progression of language in prophecy, where the titles and descriptions become more poetic and apocalyptic as they reveal secrets about the future. Overall, the conversation highlights the importance of understanding the context and purpose of prophecy in order to interpret it correctly.
In this episode, Jake and David discuss the book 'How to Read the Biblical Prophets' by Peter Gentry. They explore the unique writing style of the Hebrew prophets, which often uses repetition and recursive writing to convey their messages. The prophets' predictions are based on the judgments outlined in the Torah, and they often use types and typology to connect past events with future ones. The use of apocalyptic language is another tool the prophets employ to describe the future. Overall, the book provides valuable insights into understanding and interpreting the biblical prophets. In this conversation, Jake and David discuss the use of vague language in prophecy and how it relates to the context and audience. They explore the idea that prophets used what they had at hand to describe events, even if it meant being vague. They also examine the progression of language in prophecy, where the titles and descriptions become more poetic and apocalyptic as they reveal secrets about the future. Overall, the conversation highlights the importance of understanding the context and purpose of prophecy in order to interpret it correctly.
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Ex-Psychic Saved: Exposing Divination, New Age, and the Occult
What's the difference between psychic mediumship and prophecy? That's a question former medium Jenn Nizza asks on this episode of the “Ex-Psychic Saved Podcast,” sitting down with Pastor Jim Osman to break it all down.Osman started by differentiating between those pretending to be able to engage in divination — the process of seeking information about the future through supernatural means — and those who receive such information through genuine evil. While some are frauds, he said not everyone falls under that category. Some people truly are receiving communications from the demonic.“The Bible does warn against mediums and spiritists and divination and all kinds of connections with the occult and the spiritual realm in the Old Testament as well as in the New Testament,” Osman said. “And the Bible warns about it because the connection that people who are psychics have is a very real connection to a very real thing. There is a real spiritual realm.” As the pastor noted, this is a realm Christians are told to avoid at all costs, labeling these forces as “deceptive” and “demonic.” He said these forces have the ability to influence and bring information into the human realm, using mediums and spirits for that purpose.These psychics and others might believe they are connecting with God or even “gods” but he said they have “no idea what they're playing with.” As for prophets, Osman said the Bible is clear these individuals have existed, differentiating them from psychics by the source of the information they received. “There are genuine prophets in the Old Testament and in the New Testament times,” he said. “I don't believe that there are genuine prophets today in the biblical sense, but those people who did speak for God in the Old Testament and the New Testament had prophetic abilities because they were vehicles or instruments of revelation that God gave regarding the future, sometimes just simply applying truth in the lives of the people.”Osman wasn't done there either, offering another line to try and explain the difference between psychics and prophets: “A prophet is one who speaks from God. A psychic would be one who speaks for the devil, or is giving you information that comes from the spiritual realm that is not from God.”He and Nizza also addressed modern-day claims of prophecy, explaining potential theories on what they believe could be unfolding. Osman made his view clear there's no need for new prophetic information to be uttered in the modern era.“Everything that you need is given to you in scripture,” he said. Listen to this fascinating conversation.FOLLOW JENN NIZZA:- Follow Jenn on Instagram- Follow Jenn on TikTok- Follow Jenn on YouTube- Get Jenn's books
Many times in the Bible, and clearly in the Book of Matthew, Chapter 24. Biblical Prophets and Jesus Christ Himself talked about what to look for immediately before the Rapture of the Church, and the Great Tribulation to follow. Looking at Current Events and Breaking News from around the World. We see these Prophies playing out before our very eyes right now. Add to that, the Prophesies contained in Isaiah Chapter 17 Verse one. And the Prophesies written by the Prophet Ezekiel in Ezekiel Chapter 38 and 39. It should be obvious to anyone willing to read those Prophecies while comparing them to the events playing out around the World. That time is indeed short. And that the long awaited Rapture of the Church is indeed imminent. Are you ready? You better be. Tonight, US Press Association member JD Williams (ID # 802085263) together with Co-Host TL "Terry" Farley help connect the dots of Bible Prophecy. Including several News segments courtesy of our broadcast partners as well as detailed discussion on each of these ongoing Breaking News events. All leading to the FACT, the Rapture of the Church could literally occur at ANY moment. Please remember, the syndicated Last Christian Radio Show is Broadcast every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday Evening on Evangelism Radio. The #1 Christian Talk Digital Radio Station in the World. On Revelation Radio (www.revelationradio.net). On the "Last Christian" Website at (www.lastchristian.net), on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, and all Major Podcast Platforms. Each Episode available in all 50 US States and more than 160 Countries Around the Globe. All Released Simultaneously on all platforms at exactly 7:30pm Central Time, Until the Trumpet Sounds!! Please be sure to to help us Spread the Word of God and Promise of Eternal Salvation by Subscribing, Liking, Commenting and Sharing our Shows with all your friends and family. As doing so helps us fulfill the Great Commission of Jesus Christ and spreading the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ far and wide. Be sure to tune into Revelation Radio KRRB 24 hours a day and 7 Days a week for the latest Real News and Biblical Perspective at either (www.revelationradio.net) or Listen LIVE at (https://embed.radio.co/player/7ecf23a.html?popout) Or listen on Alexa anytime 24/7 just say, "Alexa, open KRRB Revelation Radio” And finally. If you have a Question or Wish To Appear as a Guest on the Show? Write JD Williams at office@youstreamit.net or TL Farley at anymoment@att.net. We'd love to hear from you, or have you on a future show. God Bless
Many times in the Bible, and clearly in the Book of Matthew, Chapter 24. Biblical Prophets and Jesus Christ Himself talked about what to look for immediately before the Rapture of the Church, and the Great Tribulation to follow. Looking at Current Events and Breaking News from around the World. We see these Prophies playing out before our very eyes right now. Add to that, the Prophesies contained in Isaiah Chapter 17 Verse one. And the Prophesies written by the Prophet Ezekiel in Ezekiel Chapter 38 and 39. It should be obvious to anyone willing to read those Prophecies while comparing them to the events playing out around the World. That time is indeed short. And that the long awaited Rapture of the Church is indeed imminent. Are you ready? You better be. Tonight, US Press Association member JD Williams (ID # 802085263) together with Co-Host TL "Terry" Farley help connect the dots of Bible Prophecy. Including several News segments courtesy of our broadcast partners as well as detailed discussion on each of these ongoing Breaking News events. All leading to the FACT, the Rapture of the Church could literally occur at ANY moment. Please remember, the syndicated Last Christian Radio Show is Broadcast every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday Evening on Evangelism Radio. The #1 Christian Talk Digital Radio Station in the World. On Revelation Radio (www.revelationradio.net). On the "Last Christian" Website at (www.lastchristian.net), on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, and all Major Podcast Platforms. Each Episode available in all 50 US States and more than 160 Countries Around the Globe. All Released Simultaneously on all platforms at exactly 7:30pm Central Time, Until the Trumpet Sounds!! Please be sure to to help us Spread the Word of God and Promise of Eternal Salvation by Subscribing, Liking, Commenting and Sharing our Shows with all your friends and family. As doing so helps us fulfill the Great Commission of Jesus Christ and spreading the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ far and wide. Be sure to tune into Revelation Radio KRRB 24 hours a day and 7 Days a week for the latest Real News and Biblical Perspective at either (www.revelationradio.net) or Listen LIVE at (https://embed.radio.co/player/7ecf23a.html?popout) Or listen on Alexa anytime 24/7 just say, "Alexa, open KRRB Revelation Radio” And finally. If you have a Question or Wish To Appear as a Guest on the Show? Write JD Williams at office@youstreamit.net or TL Farley at anymoment@att.net. We'd love to hear from you, or have you on a future show. God Bless
Guest: Dr. Peter Gentry | Dr. Arnold interviews Dr. Gentry about the Biblical prophets and their role in understanding modern social justice. Topics of conversation include, 1) How to define the terms justice and righteousness in the Old Testament, 2) The role of covenants, and how they affect how we understand the differences between Old Testament Israel and the church today, 3) Errors people make in applying the Old Testament to modern circumstances, 4) Encouragement for pastors teaching on these issues, and 5) Resources for learning more about Biblical social justice. Dr. Peter Gentry is distinguished professor of Old Testament at Phoenix Seminary, having previously served for 22 years at Southern Seminary. Dr Gentry is the author of many books, including Kingdom Through Covenant (Crossway, 2018), and How to Read and Understand the Biblical Prophets (Crossway, 2017). Find full show notes here: https://ps.edu/what-do-the-biblical-prophets-say-about-justice/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
On today's program, host Brent Nagtegaal discusses a recent article by Ashkelon excavator Dr. Daniel Master in Biblical Archaeology Review that shows how dna evidence finally put to rest any debate about the Philistine origins. Biblical Prophets Amos and Jeremiah Proved Correct on Philistine Origins
After climbing Mt. Everest, Maya asks Sam for some more risk taking ideas. He recommends reading through the prophets in the Old Testamant, but Maya disagrees, and says she'd rather go camping in a ditch. Pastor Mike steps in though, and urges her to reconsider. Together they analyze the difficulties of reading the prophets, the comparison between how God is described in the Old Testamant vs the New Testamant, and they work through nine different reasons to read the prophets. LINKS: How to Read and Understand the Biblical Prophets by Peter J. Gentry https://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Understand-Biblical-Prophets/dp/1433554038/ref=asc_df_1433554038/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312407247347&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9732701742016304074&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9025077&hvtargid=pla-569989210706&psc=1
A new MP3 sermon from Servants of Grace Ministries is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Peter Gentry—How to Read and Understand the Biblical Prophets Subtitle: Equipping You in Grace Video Speaker: Dave Jenkins Broadcaster: Servants of Grace Ministries Event: Podcast Date: 8/10/2017 Length: 33 min.
A new MP3 sermon from Servants of Grace Ministries is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Peter Gentry—How to Read and Understand the Biblical Prophets Subtitle: Equipping You in Grace Video Speaker: Dave Jenkins Broadcaster: Servants of Grace Ministries Event: Podcast Date: 8/10/2017 Length: 33 min.
Have you ever wondered what it would be like to stand in the presence of God? In this podcast we are joined by Rev. Sarah as we begin a new sermon series that connects the theme of "Be a Blessing" and Biblical Prophets. Together we'll explore the blessing of "Being Guided."
IGM Podcast, Old Testament, Bible Study, Contextual Bible Study, Book of Amos, Minor Prophets, Biblical Prophets, Prophets
IGM Podcast, Old Testament, Bible Study, Contextual Bible Study, Book of Amos, Minor Prophets, Biblical Prophets, Prophets
This episode is also available as a blog post: http://faithandselfdefense.com/2017/09/08/book-review-how-to-read-and-understand-the-biblical-prophets/
**This episode isn’t to prove that Joseph Smith is a prophet, nor is it an attempt to determine Joseph Smith as a prophet simply because of his similarities to other prophets. Determining if Joseph Smith is a prophet is something that you’ll have to determine on your own through asking God in prayer and studying His words.** **For more episodes about Joseph Smith, check out these playlists: Faith and Beliefs (shorter episodes) -- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...Saints Unscripted (longer episodes) -- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list... Today we wanted to talk about some of the similarities between Joseph Smith and biblical prophets. Joseph Smith founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (restoring the original church of Jesus Christ through the power of Jesus Christ). Members of the Church of Jesus Christ believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God, just like prophets in the Bible and other scriptures. In this episode, we briefly discuss those similarities.
19 July 2020 | Revd. Ian Pallent | The Biblical Prophets (6) What does God require of His People? Readings: Isaiah 30:18-21; Jeremiah 6:16-17; Lamentations 1:1-5, 11-12 and Micah 6:6-8
12 July 2020 | Revd. Ian Pallent | The Biblical Prophets (5) Where is God in this Crisis? Readings: Isaiah 30:18-26 and Daniel 9:2-10; 15-19
5 July 2020 | Revd. Ian Pallent | The Biblical Prophets (4) The Calling of a Prophet Readings: Jeremiah 1:4-10; 32:2-3a, 6-19 and Romans 1:1-7
21 June 2020 | Revd. Ian Pallent | The Biblical Prophets (2) Understanding Turbulence Readings: Habakkuk 1:1-5,12; 2:1-4,18-20; 3:1-2,17-19
28 June 2020 | Revd. Ian Pallent | The Biblical Prophets (3) Repeated Heart Failure Readings: Jeremiah 7:1-11a and Matthew 22:34-40
14 June 2020 | Revd. Ian Pallent | The Biblical Prophets (1) 'Truly, Madly, Deeply' Readings: Deuteronomy 30:5-20 and Jeremiah 31:31-34
THE IRON-TONGUED PROPHET // WEDNESDAY NIGHT UNSCRIPTED May 20, 2020 // // The Biblical Prophets were made up of men and women that God used to share HIS word to His people. There was one such prophet in the Old Testament, Jeremiah, who was given a HARD message to preach and proclaim from God: the impending destruction and exile of God's people. // In this episode of Unscripted, Marshall and Brandon flesh out one of the most interesting and most DISLIKED prophets of the Old Testament: Jeremiah. A man with an iron tongue, a complex calling, and deep emotional issues (including depression), Jeremiah is a servant of God that we can relate to: a human being with life changing knowledge of the Father, and a world that doesn't want to hear it. We hope this discussion is impactful and sheds some light on a complex book of the Bible. *NOTE: This class is about 10 minutes longer than our normal sessions! Thank you in advance for bearing with us!*
As we witness the collapse of society throughout the earth (Some see it merely as a temporary inconvenience), we are reminded of prophecies yet unfullfilled regarding the dissolution of this world system and replacement with a new perfect one. The question is, "Is this the time of Christ's appearing in judgment on the wicked? or is this a time that will bring great spiritual revival?" Well, why were the 1st Century Christians so confident in their letters to the churches about the end of the Jewish age, which in fact did occur in AD 70? Jesus, and Apostles Peter, James, John, Paul among other writers in the New Testament all confidently pointed to a time where Jerusalem, the Temple, and the Law would be dissolved and replaced with a New Covenant. How could they know? Well, they knew because Biblical Prophets had told them so for centuries, and because they could now see the "signs" of the Jewish order collapse. And collapse it did when Rome destroyed Judea and the Jewish practice of their religion through the Law of Moses. History. And now, we see the "signs" of collapse and the return of Christ in judgement based on the Biblical Scriptures that have prophesied that event for centuries. Whereas, the false hope in revival or the lights magically just turning on again, is based on nothing, no Scripture, no prophecy, and no witness of the events. False hope. End of history.
In this episode of The TruthSeekah Podcast TruthSeekah is joined by Kay Valentine as they discuss metaphysical Christianity. So many things come to mind when thinking about taboo subjects in Christianity such as Chakras, Tarot Cards, Astral Travel, Mediums, Spirits Guides, Ascended Masters Etc. But little do most of us know that many of these things have their roots in the Bible and were practiced by the Biblical Prophets and Disciples of old and were actually somethings given to humanity from Yahweh. Katy Valentine teaches individuals about the metaphysical side of Christianity and reassures them that they don’t have to abandon their faith when embracing the depths of what God has created for us to experience in the spirit. Katy’s Free Gift To The TruthSeekah Community! Click Here! TruthSeekah's New Book Spirit Realm: Angels Demons, Spirits and the Sovereignty of God (Foreword by Jordan Maxwell) https://amzn.to/31g9ydR TruthSeekahs New Guided Meditation | The Throneroom Visualization https://gumroad.com/truthseekah
In this episode of The TruthSeekah Podcast TruthSeekah is joined by Kay Valentine as they discuss metaphysical Christianity. So many things come to mind when thinking about taboo subjects in Christianity such as Chakras, Tarot Cards, Astral Travel, Mediums, Spirits Guides, Ascended Masters Etc. But little do most of us know that many of these things have their roots in the Bible and were practiced by the Biblical Prophets and Disciples of old and were actually somethings given to humanity from Yahweh. Katy Valentine teaches individuals about the metaphysical side of Christianity and reassures them that they don't have to abandon their faith when embracing the depths of what God has created for us to experience in the spirit. Katy's Free Gift To The TruthSeekah Community! Click Here! TruthSeekah's New Book Spirit Realm: Angels Demons, Spirits and the Sovereignty of God (Foreword by Jordan Maxwell) https://amzn.to/31g9ydR TruthSeekahs New Guided Meditation | The Throneroom Visualization https://gumroad.com/truthseekah
In this episode of The TruthSeekah Podcast TruthSeekah is joined by Kay Valentine as they discuss metaphysical Christianity. So many things come to mind when thinking about taboo subjects in Christianity such as Chakras, Tarot Cards, Astral Travel, Mediums, Spirits Guides, Ascended Masters Etc. But little do most of us know that many of these things have their roots in the Bible and were practiced by the Biblical Prophets and Disciples of old and were actually somethings given to humanity from Yahweh. Katy Valentine teaches individuals about the metaphysical side of Christianity and reassures them that they don’t have to abandon their faith when embracing the depths of what God has created for us to experience in the spirit. Katy’s Free Gift To The TruthSeekah Community! Click Here! TruthSeekah's New Book Spirit Realm: Angels Demons, Spirits and the Sovereignty of God (Foreword by Jordan Maxwell) https://amzn.to/31g9ydR TruthSeekahs New Guided Meditation | The Throneroom Visualization https://gumroad.com/truthseekah
The Biblical Prophet Obadiah (the shortest book of the Bible) points us to the truth that we destroy ourselves when we rejoice in the suffering of others. How can we, in 21st century America, stand for this truth?If you're a person of privilege who grew up exposed to the Bible, perhaps you at some point began to find the words of the Old Testament prophets “morally hard to swallow”. Chances are this is because, in a world of privilege, the prophets are often flattened into object lessons for “how to treat your co-workers”. (Those object lessons are not at all bad, but when the threats attached to them have the intensity of the Biblical Prophets, things can seem… well… out of proportion.) The Prophets are not coming from a world of privilege; the Prophets are Resistance Literature. And reading them from that perspective unlocks their moral courage and their timeliness for American today!
The Biblical Prophet Obadiah (the shortest book of the Bible) points us to the truth that we destroy ourselves when we rejoice in the suffering of others. How can we, in 21st century America, stand for this truth?If you’re a person of privilege who grew up exposed to the Bible, perhaps you at some point began to find the words of the Old Testament prophets “morally hard to swallow”. Chances are this is because, in a world of privilege, the prophets are often flattened into object lessons for “how to treat your co-workers”. (Those object lessons are not at all bad, but when the threats attached to them have the intensity of the Biblical Prophets, things can seem… well… out of proportion.) The Prophets are not coming from a world of privilege; the Prophets are Resistance Literature. And reading them from that perspective unlocks their moral courage and their timeliness for American today!
Website: https://theelectlife.orgYou can find the video version of this presentation and much more on the website.
As my wife would tell you, I am a compulsive Amazon shopper. A few taps of my thumb and voila – diapers or granola bars or a massaging seat cover for the car show up at our house two days later. I wish I wasn’t so bad at this, because I know Amazon is not a great company, to put it mildly. Their CEO Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world and his lowest-paid employees barely make $30,000 a year while facing some pretty tough working conditions in Amazon warehouses. What I am supposed to do with this cognitive dissonance? What wisdom does our faith have to offer in this age of mammoth CEO salaries and truly unfathomable wealth disparity? Joe Hoover, a Jesuit brother, writer, actor, and poetry editor for America Magazine in New York, tackles those questions and more in a recent piece for America titled “If Jeff Bezos wants to be ‘disruptive’, he should listen to biblical prophets.” Brother Joe joined me to talk about the piece and also his vocation as a Jesuit brother in honor of Religious Brothers Day, which is May 1. Read his piece here: https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2019/04/24/if-jeff-bezos-wants-be-disruptive-he-should-listen-biblical-prophets
Welcome to Episode 2 in our series on How to Read the Prophets. In the introduction, Tim says that the books of the prophets can be set up in different ways, but in most cases they are anthologies. These are the greatest hits or most important points of the prophets. There are five parts to this episode where Tim outlines several buckets or themes that are important to understand when reading the prophets. (6:00-25:00) Introduction (25:00-33:00) Bucket 1: Accusations (33:00-37:00) Bucket 2: Repentance (37:00-52:00) Bucket 3: Day of the Lord Announcements (52:00-end) Conclusion Biblical prophecy frequently deals with the following themes: Accusations that Israel and the nations have rebelled against Yahweh. Israel/Judah has (1) broken the covenant, (2) worshiped other gods, (3) allowed social injustice, and (4) made alliances with the foreign nations. The covenant lawsuit is the key rhetorical device. And the key metaphor is idolatry as adultery. So the nations are accused of injustice, cruelty, and arrogance. A second bucket or theme is the calls for repentance and admonition to turn from wicked ways and return to faithful obedience to Yahweh. The prophets call for religious devotion to Yahweh alone and no other gods. They also call for social justice and care for the most vulnerable (widow, orphan, immigrant). The third theme is the announcements of the Day of the Lord that will address injustice and rebellion. This refers to historical events that God will use to judge evil and vindicate the righteous, all leading up to the great future day when God will do this for all creation—a cosmic “house-cleaning.” The bad news the prophets deliver is that Yahweh will bring his justice against human rebellion. Because of human hard-heartedness, future punishment becomes inevitable. The punishment will be upon Israel and Judah, resulting in disaster, defeat, and exile upon individual nations (especially Assyrian, Babylon, Egypt) and upon all nations. The good news is that Yahweh will bring about the restoration of his covenant people on the other side of exile. This is a hope for a righteous remnant. The prophets say that God will preserve a faithful remnant, an important minority who remain faithful. There is hope for restoration from exile (captivity), and God will restore their “fortunes.” Finally, there is hope for a new covenant. Yahweh will renew his covenant with his people. The prophets say that the Kingdom of God will appear and Yahweh will establish his peaceful, universal Kingdom over all nations, ruled by the future messianic King. They use the imagery of a new temple, new Eden, and new Jerusalem to represent God’s personal presence that will permeate his people in a new cosmic temple. Helpful tips: How to Read the Prophets Look at the first sentence of the book to see when the prophet lived, then go read the corresponding section of 1-2 Kings to get the context of the prophet’s day. Pay attention to the three main themes and how they connect to the book’s design. Some prophets put all their poems of accusation together (as in Ezekiel 3-24), while others weave poems of accusation and of future hope together (see Isaiah 1-2). These books are mostly poetry, so read slowly and thoughtfully. They use tons of metaphors, so pay attention to repeated words and images. Isaiah uses metaphors from the plant world more than any other prophet (vines, trees, branches, stumps, flowers, grass) and often in creative ways to make different points (See Isaiah 11). Key Insights from the prophets: God loves justice. Israel had been called to a higher level of justice than the nations around them, especially in the treatment of their land and the poor (See Isaiah 1:10-20). God gets angry at evil. The prophets give a lot of space to God’s exposure of evil among Israel and the nations. It’s intense, but it reveals how much God cares about the goodness of his world (see Hosea 13). God has hope for our world. He refuses to let Israel’s sin get the last word, and so all the prophetic books contain profound images of future hope and restoration for God’s people and for the entire world (see Isaiah 11:1-9). Show Produced by: Dan Gummel Music: Defender Instrumental, Tents Moonlight Sonata, Beethoven Look, KV Ocean, KV Saturdays, Lakey Inspired Yesterday on Repeat, Vexento Resources: Exploring the Old Testament: A Guide to the Prophets by J. Gordon McConville The Prophets by Abraham Heschel The NIV Compact Bible Commentary by John Sailhamer Read the Bible for a Change by Ray Lubeck
The books of the prophets are often the most difficult and misunderstood books in the Bible. In part one (0:00-10:00), Tim and Jon briefly go over a few reasons why reading the prophets can be so challenging. Tim shares quotes from Martin Luther and fJohn Bright: The challenge of reading the prophetic books: “The prophets have an odd way of talking, like people who, instead of proceeding in an orderly manner, ramble off from one thing to the next, so that you cannot make head or tail of them or see what they are getting at.” Martin Luther, quoted in Gerhard von Rad, Old Testament Theology, Vol. 2 (New York: Harper & Row, 1965), 33. “What makes the prophetic books particularly, and one might say needlessly, difficult is the very manner of their arrangement — or, to be more accurate, their apparent lack of arrangement… All seems confusion… The impression that the reader gains is one of extreme disarray; one can scarcely blame him for concluding that he is reading a hopeless hodgepodge thrown together without any discernible principle of arrangement at all.” — John Bright, Jeremiah (Anchor Bible Commentary, 1965), p. lvi. In part two (10:00-18:40), Tim asks Jon what he thinks a modern definition of prophets and prophecy is. Jon says he believes it has to do with fortune telling. A prophet is someone who can look into the future and predict an event. Tim explains that while this is part of the role of a prophet, it is not the central focus, and predicting future events only occurs occasionally in the Bible. Tim explains that the definition of a prophet in the Old Testament is actually very simple. A prophet is simply a messenger or a herald giving a message to people on God’s behalf. Tim says that most people understand the term prophecy as the prediction of future events. This definition is inadequate and does not account for the huge amounts of the material in the prophetic books. While there are certain passages within the prophets which do contain predictive elements, most of these poems and narratives don’t present themselves as predictive prophecy. In the Bible, a prophecy is a message that God speaks to his people through a human prophet. So prophecies often contain the quoted speech of God himself. Jeremiah 2:1-2: Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, “Go and proclaim in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord: “I remember concerning you the devotion of your youth…” In part three (18:40-33:30), Tim outlines the character of Moses. Moses is portrayed as the archetypal prophet. He’s the first divine spokesmen sent to Israel and the nations (Exodus 3). He’s the first figure to mediate between Yahweh and Israel and establish his covenant with the people (Exodus 19-24, the Sinai narrative). He’s the only figure allowed to enter the divine presence directly (Exodus 19-20, 33-34). He’s the key intercessor for Israel when they have violated the covenant (Exodus 32-34). He suffers because of Israel’s failures (Numbers 11-21) and accuses them of present and ongoing rebellion against Yahweh that will result in exile (Deuteronomy 28-32). And his death is marked as the end of an era. “Since that time no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face…” (Deuteronomy 34:10). Tim says that Moses fails as a prophet. But in the Pentateuch, he is cast as the ideal prophet, someone whom all other Jewish prophets should follow after. In part four (33:30-end), Tim says the prophets are best understood as “covenant watchdogs.” They assume the larger covenant story of Yahweh, creation, and Israel. Yahweh is the creator and King, and his image-bearing stewards have rebelled and corrupted his good world (Genesis 1–11). In the covenant he makes with Abraham, Yahweh says he will use Abraham’s family to restore his divine blessing to all nations (Genesis 12). In the covenant with Israel (the Sinai or Mosaic covenant), Israel is called to become a kingdom of priests to the nations by adhering to the laws of the covenant. Obedience will result in covenant blessing, and rebellion will bring covenant curses (Exod 19, Lev 26, Deut 28–30). In the covenant with Israel’s priesthood, Yahweh promises to provide a perpetual priesthood through the line of Aaron to intercede on Israel’s behalf and atone for their covenant failures (Numbers 25). The covenant with Israel’s monarchy states that Yahweh will raise up a king from the line of David who will bring God’s Kingdom and blessing to all the nations (2 Samuel 7, Psalms 2, 72, 89, 132). Israel was unable to fulfill its side of the Sinai covenant and was sent into exile. But in the new covenant, Yahweh will transform their hearts so they can truly love and obey their God (Deuteronomy 30, Jeremiah 31, Ezekiel 36). Thank you to all of our supporters! Show Produced by: Dan Gummel, Jon Collins Show Music Defender Instrumental, Tents Mind Your Time, Me.So Morning, LiQwyd Erhrling, Typhoon Show Resources: Martin Luther, quoted in Gerhard von Rad, Old Testament Theology, Vol. 2 (New York: Harper & Row, 1965), 33. John Bright, Jeremiah (Anchor Bible Commentary, 1965), p. Lvi. Our Video on How to Read the Prophets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edcqUu_BtN0
Welcome to the 109th episode of Equipping You in Grace. On today's episode, Dave Jenkins interviews How to Read and Understand the Biblical Prophets (Crossway, 2017). What you’ll hear in this episode: Why the Prophets are so neglected in contemporary evangelicalism. How Christians should read the Prophetic books of the Bible. What contribution the Prophets make to the biblical worldview. What a covenant is and why it’s so important to understanding the Prophets. The function of repetition in Hebrew Literature. The nature of Hebrew Prophecy. What apocalyptic language is and how we should interpret such language in the Bible. How Pastors should preach the Prophetic books of the Bible. About the Guest: Peter J. Gentry (PhD, University of Toronto) is professor of Old Testament interpretation at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and director of the Hexapla Institute. Subscribing, sharing, and your feedback You can subscribe to Equipping You in Grace via iTunes, Google Play, or your favorite podcast catcher. If you like what you’ve heard, please consider leaving a rating and share it with your friends (it takes only takes a second and will go a long way to helping other people find the show). You can also connect with me on Twitter at @davejjenkins, on Facebook or via email to share your feedback. Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Equipping You in Grace!
What a week for Americans . . . What a week for genomics! The Supreme Court rulings that Americans can keep their Obamacare and can all get married - no matter what state they live in - added the final good news to a week of genomics festivities around the country. But it's not all positive news this week. The New York Times featured a diagnostics company under review by Medicare for fraud. Allegedly, the New Orleans based Renaissance Rx has been paying doctors to sign up patients for a huge trial of genomic based tests, even when the patients didn't qualify.
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