Podcasts about win without pitching

For decades the agency-client relationship has worked on a transactional view of marketing and creative services. Agencies gave away their best thinking upfront, clients judged on surface-level ideas and both sides accepted a process that often undervalued expertise.In this Smarter Marketer Podcast episode, Host James Lawrence and renowned author Blair Enns discuss how the future of creative and professional services lies in changing how we buy, sell and trust expertise. Whether you're in-house or agency-side, these shifts carry big implications for how you choose partners and build lasting relationships that drive marketing success.Key Takeaways:Why traditional pitching often undervalues creative work and what it takes to break free from itHow specialisation is the key to differentiation, growth and global reachWhat three-option proposals and value-based pricing reveal about how expertise should really be soldWhy selling is less about the big presentation and more about a series of meaningful conversationsHow AI is fragmenting the market and empowering smaller, more specialised playersWhat in-house marketers can do to unlock more value from their agency partners.Guest:Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training organisation for creative and professional services firms. He is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, Pricing Creativity and The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise. Blair is also the co-host of the widely followed 2Bobs podcast.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Blair Enns is a globally recognized thought leader in creative agency sales and the founder of Win Without Pitching, a revolutionary approach that empowers agencies to lead client engagements without giving away free work. He is the author of bestselling books including Pricing Creativity and his latest, The Four Conversations. In this episode, Blair breaks down his powerful new framework for selling expertise—moving from pitching and price haggling to confidently leading sales conversations. Listeners will learn how to increase closing ratios, price based on value, and shift from being seen as a vendor to a trusted advisor. Today we discussed: 00:00 Opening 00:53 The Cost of Letting the Client Run the Show 04:36 What are the Four Conversations? 06:58 Show Your Expertise without Giving it Away 08:34 Avoid Evaluating the Client 10:08 Power Dynamics of the Sale 12:56 The Value Conversation 16:18 Working Around Client Budget 18:20 Price the Client, Not the Service 19:53 Moving From Vendor to Trusted Advisor Rate, Review, & Follow If you liked this episode, please rate and review the show. Let us know what you loved most about the episode. Struggling with strategy? Unlock your free AI-powered prompts now and start building a winning strategy today!

Welcome to episode 139. My guest is Blair Enns - a globally recognised author, speaker and the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training company that has transformed how creative professionals position and sell their expertise Blair is the author of three books; o The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, a rallying cry for creative agencies to stop giving away their thinking for free. o Pricing Creativity, a guide to pricing your work based on value, not hours. o And now, his latest book - The Four Conversations a model for selling expertise If you've ever felt stuck in the sales process, unsure how to talk about money, or like you're chasing clients instead of leading them - this episode is for you. You can connect with Blair Enns here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/ Website: http://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ Books: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Books-Blair-Enns/s?rh=n%3A266239%2Cp_27%3ABlair%2BEnns

Most founders wait too long to adapt. Ray Deck says that's a mistake—and shows how to scale smarter using the tools you already have.What if the biggest leverage in your business isn't new funding or a bigger team—but the knowledge and trust you've already built?This week, I'm joined by Ray Deck, founder of State Change, to break down how AI, no-code, and personal reputation are changing the game for founders ready to scale—without burning out.Ray's seen it all—from the dot-com bust to the rise of SaaS—and now he's helping entrepreneurs build smarter by tapping into tools that amplify what they already know.We get into:

The 4 Steps to Selling Your Expertise as an ArchitectBlair Enns, founder of Win Without Pitching and author of The Four Conversations, joins the podcast to share a powerful framework for selling expertise as an architect. He explains how positioning yourself as a trusted advisor rather than just a service provider leads to stronger client relationships and better business outcomes.The conversation explores the four key stages of selling—probative, qualifying, value, and closing conversations—helping architects identify the right clients, set prices based on value rather than industry norms, and confidently say no to misaligned projects. Blair also discusses common sales pitfalls, how to recognize red flags in client relationships, and why shifting the focus from selling to advising creates more successful engagements.Whether you're struggling with pricing, client fit, or closing deals, this episode provides actionable insights to help you build a more profitable and sustainable architectural practice.This week at EntreArchitect Podcast, The 4 Steps to Selling Your Expertise as an Architect with Blair Enns.Learn more about Blair online at Win Without Pitching, check out his podcast 2Bobs, and connect with him on LinkedIn.Referenced in this EpisodeEA219: Pricing Creativity with Author Blair Enns [Podcast]The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise by Blair Enns [book]Please visit Our Platform SponsorsGo to https://betterhelp.com/architect for 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp and get matched with a therapist who will listen and help. Thank you to our sponsor BetterHelp for supporting our community of small firm entrepreneur architects.ARCAT.com is much more than a product catalog, with CAD, BIM, and specifications created in collaboration with manufacturers. ARCAT.com also offers LEED data, continuing education resources, newsletters, and the Detailed podcast. Visit https://ARCAT.com to learn more.

One of the worst parts of the job for many? Figuring out pricing. If you've ever had to price anything, this is a must listen episode. Blair Enns is the visionary behind Win Without Pitching, the organization that's rewritten the rules on how expert advisors and creatives close deals. As the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity, plus co-host of the 2Bobs Podcast, Blair has redefined integrity-based selling and value-based pricing for countless leaders. In this episode, he and Ryan explore why fear is an inevitable part of the sales process and how embracing courage can help you command higher fees. Blair shares practical strategies to avoid “pitching prisons,” from anchoring high on pricing to structuring proposals with multiple options. He also shares some nuggets from his new book, The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise, and reveals the unexpected path that led him from big-city advertising to a remote Canadian mountain town, where his mission to help businesses thrive took root.

Blair Enns, the visionary behind Win Without Pitching, joins us to chat about how creative professionals approach sales. Sharing his insights from a tranquil mountain village in British Columbia, Blair challenges the traditional sales narrative with integrity-based selling and value-based pricing. With his latest book, "The Four Conversations," Blair encourages shifting from providing solutions to probing with the right questions, setting the stage for those eager to refine their sales strategies in the creative sector.We tackle the stigma around sales roles, redefining them for experts, advisors, and practitioners. Blair advocates for a shift from sales pitches to advisory roles, focusing on establishing trust and authenticity from the get-go. This approach not only secures more business but also leads to richer collaborations. By maintaining an expert persona throughout, we explore how genuine connections lead to more successful client partnerships.Explore the nuances of avoiding needy sales dynamics and the significance of listening over persuasion. Blair delves into the power of maintaining authority without desperation, navigating the delicate balance of desirability and desire. Recognising the pivotal "flip" moment, where one transforms from vendor to expert, we discuss how this can shift the entire sales process. Whether you're grappling with the fear of narrowing your focus or striving to become a trusted advisor, this episode offers valuable frameworks to master the art of expertise-based selling.Blair's new book 'Sell and Price Like the Expert You Are is available here.TakeawaysEstablishing oneself as an expert in the sales process is crucial for success.The sale itself is a sample of the engagement, and the roles are established in this conversation.Behaving as an expert in the sales conversation sets the tone for the engagement.Not establishing the expert self can lead to decreased odds of winning, higher costs, and a less impactful engagement. The book introduces a new approach to selling based on four conversations: value, qualification, discovery, and closing.Shifting from a vendor mindset to an expert mindset is crucial in selling.The 'flip' moment, where the client sees the seller as the expert, is a key turning point in the sales process.Selling in a tough market requires maintaining confidence and expertise.Niching down and focusing on a specific area of expertise can enhance credibility and attract clients.Listening is more important than presenting or convincing in sales conversations.

For this episode of Sell With Authority we are doubling down on value-based pricing to help you future-proof your agency. Our guest expert is a true authority when it comes to pricing and sales strategy. Blair Enns, the CEO of Win Without Pitching and the author of the widely acclaimed Win Without Pitching Manifesto joins the podcast. His latest book, Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour, is a must-read for anyone looking to get a handle on pricing in their business. I was inspired by one of his articles on quantifying the value of pricing. Specifically, the part about ‘the elephant in the room' when it comes to pricing really hit home — because we've all been there. The uncertainty pricing brings to agency owners is a challenge we just can't ignore. So, I knew we had to bring Blair on the show to dive into this topic and help us all navigate the complexities of pricing with confidence. And to make this conversation even richer, also joining is our very own Mad Scientist and Strategist, Hannah Roth. Hannah works tirelessly in the trenches with our clients, helping them fill their sales pipelines with right-fit clients so they can sell more of what they do best. If you're an agency owner struggling with pricing, this episode will give you the framework and confidence you need to untether from time-based billing. A big dose of gratitude to our presenting sponsor for the podcast, Conduit Digital. By using their expertise in streamlining, upgrading & scaling your clients…they promise to reduce your risk so you can become the best digital agency in your market in 30-days. You can find Conduit and all their helpful insights and smarts here. What you will learn in this episode: How to shift from selling inputs and outputs to focusing on value creation for right-fit clients Why mastering the value conversation can radically transform your agency's profitability Blair's simple – yet powerful – four-step framework for implementing value-based pricing How to view your client portfolio as an investment portfolio to tailor pricing strategies The pitfalls to avoid when transitioning away from traditional pricing models Resources: Website: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/ LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/win-without-pitching/ Win Without Pitching Manifesto Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour Additional Resources: Website: www.predictiveroi.com Visit our newly expanded Resource Library Join us in our free How to Fill Your Sales Pipeline Facebook Group

In this second part of our discussion with Blair Enns, we explore the internal dynamics that influence agency-client relationships. Host Dom Hawes and Blair continue to discuss balancing efficiency and innovation, focusing on how departmental goals can conflict with overarching business objectives. They examine bounded rationality, the inefficiency principle, and the role of leadership in fostering a culture that supports both operational efficiency and creative innovation. Blair introduces his upcoming book, which outlines four key conversations that can help frame the process of selling expertise and ensuring effective client relationships.What you'll get from this episode:Understanding the impact of departmental silos.Strategies for effective agency-client relationships.The importance of aligning business goals across departments.How leadership can drive cultural change for better innovation.Join us for practical insights on creating value-driven partnerships that foster innovation and drive business success.About Blair EnnsBlair is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training program for expert advisors, and the author of three books on selling and pricing. The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise is available from Gegen Press on Amazon in September, 2024.Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour (2018) is available at pricingcreativity.com. The Win Without Pitching Manifesto (2010) is available on Amazon.Links Full show notes: Unicorny.co.uk LinkedIn: Blair Enns | Dom Hawes Website: Win Without PitchingSponsor: Selbey Anderson This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacyPodder - https://www.podderapp.com/privacy-policyChartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

In this second part of our discussion with Blair Enns, we explore the internal dynamics that influence agency-client relationships. Host Dom Hawes and Blair continue to discuss balancing efficiency and innovation, focusing on how departmental goals can conflict with overarching business objectives. They examine bounded rationality, the inefficiency principle, and the role of leadership in fostering a culture that supports both operational efficiency and creative innovation. Blair introduces his upcoming book, which outlines four key conversations that can help frame the process of selling expertise and ensuring effective client relationships.What you'll get from this episode:Understanding the impact of departmental silos.Strategies for effective agency-client relationships.The importance of aligning business goals across departments.How leadership can drive cultural change for better innovation.Join us for practical insights on creating value-driven partnerships that foster innovation and drive business success.About Blair EnnsBlair is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training program for expert advisors, and the author of three books on selling and pricing. The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise is available from Gegen Press on Amazon in September, 2024.Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour (2018) is available at pricingcreativity.com. The Win Without Pitching Manifesto (2010) is available on Amazon.Links Full show notes: Unicorny.co.uk LinkedIn: Blair Enns | Dom Hawes Website: Win Without PitchingSponsor: Selbey Anderson This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacyPodder - https://www.podderapp.com/privacy-policyChartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Today's episode of Unicorny tackles the complex dynamics between brand marketers and creative agencies, focusing on the dysfunctional commercial relationships that have emerged over recent years. Host Dom Hawes is joined by Blair Enns, founder of “Win Without Pitching”. They explore how procurement practices and outdated commercial models hinder innovation and value creation. Blair offers insights into redefining these relationships to foster mutual success. Challenges in the client-agency commercial model. The impact of procurement on creativity.Shifting focus from outputs to business outcomes.Balancing efficiency and innovation.Tune in to understand how to build stronger, more effective relationships between marketers and agencies, ensuring sustainable success for both parties.About Blair EnnsBlair is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training program for expert advisors, and the author of three books on selling and pricing. The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise is available from Gegen Press on Amazon in September, 2024.Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour (2018) is available at pricingcreativity.com. The Win Without Pitching Manifesto (2010) is available on Amazon.Links Full show notes: Unicorny.co.uk LinkedIn: Blair Enns| Dom Hawes Website: Win Without PitchingSponsor: Selbey Anderson This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacyPodder - https://www.podderapp.com/privacy-policyChartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Today's episode of Unicorny tackles the complex dynamics between brand marketers and creative agencies, focusing on the dysfunctional commercial relationships that have emerged over recent years. Host Dom Hawes is joined by Blair Enns, founder of “Win Without Pitching”. They explore how procurement practices and outdated commercial models hinder innovation and value creation. Blair offers insights into redefining these relationships to foster mutual success. Challenges in the client-agency commercial model. The impact of procurement on creativity.Shifting focus from outputs to business outcomes.Balancing efficiency and innovation.Tune in to understand how to build stronger, more effective relationships between marketers and agencies, ensuring sustainable success for both parties.About Blair EnnsBlair is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training program for expert advisors, and the author of three books on selling and pricing. The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise is available from Gegen Press on Amazon in September, 2024.Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour (2018) is available at pricingcreativity.com. The Win Without Pitching Manifesto (2010) is available on Amazon.Links Full show notes: Unicorny.co.uk LinkedIn: Blair Enns| Dom Hawes Website: Win Without PitchingSponsor: Selbey Anderson This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacyPodder - https://www.podderapp.com/privacy-policyChartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

For years, agency advisors like Chip and Gini have implored agencies to be strategic and avoid being simple order takers. Owners were told that this shift was key to increasing profitability and client retention. But has it gone too far? In this episode, Chip and Gini examine whether agencies have hit ‘peak strategy’ as suggested recently by Blair Enns. They ask whether some agencies are overemphasizing strategy at the expense of implementation. They note that clients say they want their agencies to think strategically, but they also balk at explicit costs for strategic planning. They maintain that agencies should incorporate strategy into their overall services without explicitly charging for it, and emphasize the need for balance between strategic planning and practical execution. Chip and Gini also discuss proper pricing strategies, ensuring clients receive value without feeling nickel-and-dimed. The conversation highlights the necessity of delivering workable strategies tailored to client needs and the importance of understanding costs and pricing based on agency specifics. Key takeaways Chip Griffin: “You need to be strategic. You need to be viewed that way, but you don’t need to rub it in the client’s face and make them pay for it explicitly in a line item on the invoice.” Gini Dietrich: “When we say you need to look at your pricing, you need to increase your prices, it’s because you have to fold in your account management and your results reporting and your data analysis and your strategy.” Chip Griffin: “A restaurant doesn’t offer someone wine and then itemize the glass because you’re not going to let them sit there and drink it straight out of the bottle. That’s how strategy should be. It’s the glass.” Gini Dietrich: “There’s a common occurrence that’s happening that I see happening more and more where people are asking one another what they’re charging for things. And I think that’s the completely wrong approach. When you’re thinking about pricing, you have to figure out what it costs you and price it that way.” Resources Have We Hit Peak Strategy? View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: Gini, you know, strategy. Does strategy even matter? We don’t really care about strategy, do we? We just kind of amble forward. And that’s what we should do with our clients, right? Gini Dietrich: We do care about strategy. I think it’s in how we position it, that is different. Chip Griffin: Oh, Really, the topic is, have we hit peak strategy? That’s something that Blair Enns of Win Without Pitching was writing about recently, and he was talking about how agencies have been encouraged to head towards strategy, to build for strategy, to demonstrate strategy to their clients, and he’s questioning now whether agencies have perhaps overcorrected in this direction, and we’ll include a link in the show notes so you can read it because it’s a much more detailed assessment than what I just condensed it down to in 15 seconds. But let’s talk about agencies, strategy, and clients. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I mean, I think there’s a couple of things going on. For sure, you know, people like us, and we’ve done this too, and other agency owner advisors have talked about the importance of raising your prices and finding things, packages, for lack of a better term, or projects that you can do that are easy for a prospect to sign on to become a client. And I, I think that those things still stand. I think that, overall, and generally, most agencies don’t charge correctly. They’re not priced correctly. And overall, just like I think we talked about last week or the week before, there are too many agencies that are going in for a full year retainer versus in times that are tough, like this year, doing project based kind of work. So I do think there’s something to be said for those things. But to your point, I think that we have over expanded and a really good example of this is that we have always, gosh, probably for the last seven or eight years, we’ve always started a new client with a strategic planning session. And in the last couple of years, and it’s been great because it’s a project. It helps. We charge a certain price for it. It, it gets us into an organization fast. We learn about the business fast. We get access to all of the tools that we need on their end really quickly. We get the executive’s attention really quickly and we get some, we show them some demonstrable results and something tangible within 30 days. So it’s great from that perspective, but in the last year and a half, I would say every single prospect has said something along the lines of, we don’t really need that or let’s just get started. Or, you know, our last agency did a big strategic planning session. Can you use what they created? And it’s been one of those things. So we’ve had to sort of take a step back and go, okay, wait. Let’s not talk about a strategic planning session to launch the relationship. Let’s, let’s try something else. And I think it goes to what Blair Enns is writing about or talking about right now. Chip Griffin: Yeah. For, I mean, for many years, agency advisors have told agency owners that if you want to be able to charge more, you have to be strategic. You have to be viewed as a strategic advisor and not merely an implementer who just delivers individual tactical executions. You need to be at that level. And so I’ve seen this shift in a lot of the agencies that I’ve talked with where they really want to lean into that. And so they do things like try to explicitly charge for strategy. Or at the extreme, I talked to some agency owners who are like, I don’t even want to do implementation. I just want to get paid for strategy. Now let’s start with the extreme end there. Almost no client today wants to pay just for strategy. They’re out there. They’re very, very few and far between. Most clients. may even understand that you need to be strategic, but they don’t want to feel like they’re paying for it. So to me, the first lesson I take from what Blair was talking about and something that I’ve encouraged my own clients for a number of years is don’t ever explicitly charge for strategy. Don’t have a line item that says strategy in whatever you’re doing. You need to be strategic. You need to be viewed that way, but you don’t need to rub it in the client’s face and make them pay for it explicitly. Gini Dietrich: That’s right. And I, I mean, there are other things on that you and I discussed before we hit record that are on the, that can be on the invoice or in the scope of work as well, which are project strategy for one. Project management or account management, administrative work, like all of the things that we have to do to be – results reporting – we have to do to be able to do our jobs. But clients don’t want to pay for it. So those are the things that you say when we say you need to look at your pricing, you need to increase your prices. It’s because you have to fold those things into it. You have to fold in your account management and your results reporting and your data analysis and your strategy. You have to fold it all into the pricing and then do the work so that you’re able to do those things and get paid for it. But it’s not something that a client or a prospect can go, Eh, you know, we don’t really need account management. We can do without results reporting, and we definitely don’t need strategy. You do need those things, but they’re not, you have to do it in a way that they can’t just remove it from the scope of work. Chip Griffin: Right. Whenever you’re talking about something that you’re line iteming with a client, something that’s going on the invoice here, in the proposal, you never, ever, ever should list anything that can’t be removed or added. You only want to include those things where it’s truly a menu option. You don’t, you know, if you’re a restaurant, you don’t offer someone wine and then itemize the glass because they can’t have the wine without the, you’re not gonna let them sit there and just drink it straight out of the bottle. Gini Dietrich: I mean, you could give them a straw. Chip Griffin: You could, but you’re not going, if you have a nice restaurant, you’re not going to allow that. So you should not have an explicit charge for the glass. Even though there is a cost, there’s absolutely a cost to have it, to purchasing that glassware, maintaining that glassware, cleaning that glassware, delivering it to the table. There’s breakage, there’s all sorts of costs that go into it, but you don’t actually charge the restaurant customer for the glass. You charge them for the wine and they get the glass along with it. That’s how strategy should be. It’s the glass. Gini Dietrich: I love that analogy. And there you go. There’s the end of the episode because that’s perfect. So there you go. Chip Griffin: Well, I mean, but I do think you need to be thinking in general about all of these kinds of things that you’re putting in there. And it reminds me, I think I’ve shared this story previously on this show. Certainly I’ve shared it a lot of other places, but when I first started hiring agencies myself back in the mid 90s when I was in house, I had agencies that would nickel and dime me for faxes and copies and things like that. There are very few things more irritating than getting an invoice for a dollar per page for faxes. And you young folks don’t even know what faxes are. But anyway, look it up. I’m sure you can, you can hear the screeching noise if you go on YouTube and put fax machine noise in there or something like that. You’ll know what all of us have heard for many years. Anyway, you need to be thinking about how is this being received by my client? None of it means these are things you shouldn’t do. For example, you need to do things to maintain the client relationship. Should you expressly charge them for the time that it takes for you to go and pitch a renewal? No! No client’s going to want to pay for that. But, your overall pricing needs to account for the fact that you’re going to spend the time to put together the proposal for the renewal, that you’re going to go visit them. It needs to factor in the travel costs. Again, don’t charge the client to go visit them. To pitch the renewal. Nobody wants to pay for that, but you do need to price it into the work that you’re doing. And so understanding that these are two different things is important. And I think the other thing is just when it comes to strategy itself, be careful that you don’t overvalue it, right? Strategy is important. Absolutely. You’ve got to have it. But if you sit down and you say, okay, well, Chip and Gini say, well, we shouldn’t itemize strategy, but I’m going to include it in there. I’m going to put a big number in there because it’s really important. And we’ve got really great ideas. I’m sure you do. I’m sure you have the best ideas and the best team and all of that, but you’ve got to be reasonable in what you’re charging. As my old business partner used to say, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. So make sure that you are being greedy, but not too greedy. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s exactly right. And another thing is, you know, I, there’s a, there’s a common occurrence that’s happening that I see happening more and more and more in groups that I belong to. Facebook, LinkedIn, Slack, wherever it happens to be. where people are asking one another what they’re charging for things. And I think that’s the completely wrong approach. Now, certainly Is it nice to be able to say, Oh, well, so and so charges 30 grand and so and so charges 25 and so and so charges 20 for this package. Okay, that’s fair. But when you’re thinking about pricing, you have to figure out what it costs you and price it that way. So, you know, I’m in Chicago, so it’s gonna cost me more to get work done than it’s gonna cost someone that you’re working with, Chip, in New Hampshire, right? Because the cost of living is a lot higher here and people get paid more and like all the things, right? So I think that’s the wrong thing to think about. So if you think about and, and I know that we beat this horse to death all the time. But if you think about here’s everything we have to do. And here’s all the software that we need to use. And here’s everything that it takes. Account management, strategy, all those pieces. How much time we’re going to spend in weekly meetings and in you know, creating agendas or whatever it happens to be. All of the stuff has to be incorporated into the pricing. And then you can price based on what’s – and add in your profitability too, be based on what makes sense for your agency, not what makes sense for my agency or what makes sense for another business. Chip Griffin: Yeah, I’d go even further. I mean, it’s, you shouldn’t be worrying about what other agencies are charging. You shouldn’t worry all that much about what they’re scoping either, and whether they’re expressly talking about strategy or not, right? You need to figure out what you need to do in order to deliver the results that your prospects and clients are looking for. I will almost certainly guarantee you that’s not strategy only. Right. No matter whether you find another agency owner who says that that’s what they’re doing or not. If they say that, I would seriously question it because I do think it is so few clients today who will pay for strategy only. But even if you hear, even if you believe that, you still need to sit down and say, well, how much strategy do I really need to do here? What is it really going to take? And if by strategy it means you spend two hours putting together a few ideas on a piece of paper, is it valuable? Yes. Should you charge through the nose for it? Absolutely not. Because it’s two hours. And I know we, you know, we get excited about value pricing and all that kind of stuff. And I think everybody here knows that I think value pricing is silly for 99 percent of agencies because almost 100 percent of agencies don’t even understand what it is, let alone having it as a viable thing that they can use. But you need to figure out what you need to do to get the job done, and then you need to figure out what does it actually cost you to your point. It is very different in different places. It would be like landlords getting together in a group and saying, How much do you rent your apartments for? Well, how big is the apartment? Where is the apartment located? And it’s not even just that it’s in Chicago. Where in Chicago is it? It’s going to be different prices in different parts of town. It’s going to be different price based on the age of the building, the square footage of the apartment. There’s so many things that go into it. And so if as an agency, you’re trying to just compare and say, you know, what is everybody else doing and try to follow after them? You’re not thinking about the most important thing, which is what is your client need? What do they value? Yep. Those are the things you should do. And those are the things you should charge for. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing that the other mistake I think I see agency owners make in this kind of scenario is they, they price it by saying, Oh, well, to your point, it takes me two hours to write down ideas. It probably takes me two hours for meetings and maybe four hours to do some research on an audit. So I’m eight hours all in. And so I’m going to charge it based on my hourly rate for eight hours. And I’m like, no, First of all, you shouldn’t be the one delivering this, ever, and doing the work. So how much time is it going to take your team? And then they go, oh, well, maybe 10 hours. I’m like, no! It takes your team at least triple the time it takes you. At least. So you have to take those things into account as well. Because you, you have to think about, okay, Yes, if you were doing that, it would take you less time because you have more experience and expertise and all those kinds of things, but you shouldn’t be the one that’s delivering this. So even if you’re the one who’s delivering it in the beginning, you still have to price it based on who’s going to deliver it six months from now, a year from now, because that’s gonna be really hard to go from your eight hours at $150 an hour to 24 hours at $125 an hour. It’s gonna be, that’s a huge divide. So you have to think about those things too. And I think we, I see a lot of agency owners make that mistake. Chip Griffin: Absolutely. And, and I think as we’re thinking about strategy and, you know, bashing on how agencies work with strategy. I’m going to continue it. I think the other thing when it comes to strategy is that that we need to be putting together strategies that are actually workable for our clients. Because I’ve seen a lot of strategies put together that look great on paper. That maybe it’s the absolute right idea, but it needs to be a strategy that can be sold internally with the client that they will actually buy into. It needs to be a strategy that they can actually implement both from a resource perspective as well as a cost perspective and a time perspective and an organizational tolerance perspective. I mean, if I go into a, a client and say the solution, you know, you would knock it out of the park with video, but they don’t have anybody they want to put on camera. They don’t have any desire to do that. They’re nervous about YouTube. That’s probably not a good strategy for them. So the strategy needs to be something that they can actually implement and ideally that you can implement for them because ultimately what people are really paying for is that the outputs and the results and we can sit here all day long and say that’s wrong. They shouldn’t, they shouldn’t pay us for a press release or a website or a video or a social media post. But guess what? That’s what they’re paying for. In their minds, that’s what they’re paying for And you can sit there and you can have a religious conversation with them about how that’s not really what it is and we really need to be thinking about results and all this which is all great And you need to think about it. You need to report on it. But if if you get so wound up in that, you will go out of business. Because that’s not what clients want. Gini Dietrich: They hire agencies because they need extra arms and legs. They need somebody’s help to do the work and not to think. I mean, yes, to think and to do the work. So, you know, I mean, there are plenty of us and I’m the same. Like if you came to me and said, Hey Gini, I’d love to hire your agency to do social media. And, but I want you to be the one who does it. I’m like, no freaking way. No, thank you. And even if it’s not strategic from their perspective, even if it costs them a ton of money because I’m the one doing it, I’m still not going to do it. So you also have to be able to say, not the right fit for us. But it has to be based on what they expect the relationship to bring, not because you think they’re not strategic. Chip Griffin: So, I mean, I think the bottom line is, do you need to be strategic? Yes. Do you need to be smart about how you’re being strategic with your clients? Yes. Do you need to charge explicitly for strategy? Absolutely not. Hell no. Please don’t do that. Can you be a strategy only agency? Probably not. Do you need to tie strategy to actual tactics and results? Yep. Absolutely. I mean, and I think because we’ve talked so long, not, not just the two of us, but the agency advisor community generally about the importance of strategy, we have pushed too many agencies into over correcting on this. And we need to pull them back in and help them to understand that it’s about balance. Ignoring strategy completely and just being an order taker, that’s bad too. We’re not, we’re not telling you to now over correct back and don’t have the pendulum swing back the other way so hard that you just, you know, go in there and you say, I’ll just do whatever you tell me to do as long as you’ll pay for it. We don’t want that either. You’ve got to have balance. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. And I think that, you know, just incorporating it into the work that you do and into your pricing is the right way to do it. Chip Griffin: Absolutely. And it works. It’ll help your clients. It helps your team, frankly, if they understand why they’re doing things and they’re being part of that, that process. So, so wrap it in. Just make strategic thinking part of what you do. Don’t make it something that you put up on a pedestal and try to charge a billion bucks for. Gini Dietrich: And remember that you’re serving a very nice bottle of wine, and along with that they get a glass and some service. Chip Griffin: That’s right. And if anybody out there can find a restaurant that actually charges you for the glass, I look forward to seeing your comment on whatever platform you’re listening or watching us on. With that, that will draw to an end this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m going to go get, no, I’m not going to eat a glass of wine. It’s only one o’clock in the afternoon right now. So, so with that, I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And it depends.

Welcome to episode 112. I'm joined by Shannyn Lee, Managing Director of Win Without Pitching ®, which is widely recognised by the creative industry as one of the best quality sales training programs because it's specifically tailored to agencies. This episode will be particularly valuable for you if your job at the agency is winning new business and you'd like to know how to do that without having to go through a costly pitch process. During our chat, Shannyn shares: - the Win Without Pitching ® principles - what it takes to circumnavigate a client's pitch process - the common sales challenges faced by agencies today - her advice for agency owners who want to stand out in the market, and lots more. Please visit the Win Without Pitching ® website (https://www.winwithoutpitching.com) to find out more about everything the company does, find which workshops are coming up. and to buy Blair Enns' book, ‘The Win Without Pitching Manifesto', which is practically the industry bible. You can connect with Shannyn Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannyn-lee-2a32846/ If you're listening to this episode in April 2024 we are opening enrolments for our May Account Accelerator™ training for those in the agency who are responsible for existing client growth. If your job is to manage client relationships and grow your accounts, check out the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator

Comme toi peut-être, je passe pas mal de temps sur Linkedin.Ce sont les posts d'entrepreneurs créateurs de contenu - autrement dit d'infopreneurs - qui captent le plus souvent mon attention.Et plus je me lis leurs contenus, plus Linkedin me nourrit de contenus équivalents.Ce gavage a tendance à déformer ma compréhension du freelancing.Comme tous ces entrepreneurs que je suis se sont constitués d'imposantes audiences et que cela joue un rôle clé dans leur business, parfois, je me surprends à penser:“Ah mais en fait, faut ABSOLUMENT être une star de Linkedin ou d'Instagram pour réussir à développer sa boîte”.Alors que non, les réseaux sociaux ne sont qu'un levier de croissance parmi d'autres.Heureusement j'ai un remède surpuissant pour me remettre les idées en place: je discute avec des entrepreneurs comme Hervé.Hervé, c'est mon invité pour ce nouveau portrait de freelance.Il est dév spécialisé dans la création de logiciels Saas pour les entreprises. On échange ensemble depuis 2020. Il est même déjà passé derrière le micro de La Cohorte.Je peux vous dire qu'il cartonne et que les réseaux sociaux ne jouent qu'un tout petit rôle dans sa réussite.Je suis donc trop contente de partager avec toi cette conversation (je l'ai interrogé sur son parcours, sur ce qui le fait vibrer, sur qu'il l'aide à progresser....).

Selling doesn't have to be a grind—in fact it can be a joyful opportunity to help your ideal clients and buyers achieve their vision. That's the refreshing viewpoint of sales maven and Win Without Pitching leader Shannyn Lee.We explore:How to take control of conversations around fees and value (hint: you may need to kick some old baggage to the curb).Developing selling frameworks that define how you'll respond in each stage of your buyer's journey (including how you'll vet them).Why you want to be “kind but ruthless” (and exactly what that looks like).The surprising role joy can play in your selling and marketing efforts.Using LinkedIn to engage future clients and build relationships—and one winning way to turn “cold” into warm.LINKSShannyn Lee | Website | YouTube | LinkedInRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramGUEST BIOShannyn Lee is the Managing Director for Win Without Pitching and an unstoppable force of human empowerment.She spent a decade in senior marketing and communication roles in Fortune 500 companies before moving to a business development leadership role at a well-regarded Seattle design firm. She also spent four years at Catapult New Business where she worked with agencies of various disciplines and size, building and leading their business development programs.Her time on the front lines of agency business development coupled with many informative years on the client side, has given Shannyn a unique perspective into what marketers are looking for in agencies and what agencies must be doing in order to compete and win.Shannyn's empathetic and encouraging coaching skills have helped her clients translate the lofty Win Without Pitching ideals into real behavioral change with lasting results.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSThe Soloist Women Mastermind (Apply January 2024) A structured eight-month mastermind with an intentionally small group of hand-picked women soloists grappling with—and solving—the same kinds of challenges. 10 Ways To Grow Revenue As A Soloist (Without Working More Hours): most of us have been conditioned to work more when we want to grow revenue—but what if we just worked differently?The Soloist Women community: a place to connect with like-minded women (and join a channel dedicated to your revenue level).The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your...

Episode Type: Inspirational People Interview In this Inspirational People interview on the Share Life podcast, I'm speaking with Beth Haun.  Beth and I have been through hills and valleys together and has been a vital part of my own story. She was originally a client of Noodlehead Marketing who became a team member and an influencing leader of our marketing business. She was also a participant in the Noodlehead Marketing transition into intentionality, a learner of constructive development theory via the Leaders Lyceum, a part of the Win Without Pitching transition, involved in the Island Story adventure, and a co-creator of IDEMA; a framework for capturing and sustaining ideas. I'm grateful for the impact Beth has had on my life and look forward to her sharing her life with you today. Additional Resources For show highlights, links, and the video version of the conversation, click here. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sharelife/support

In this episode, Chip and Gini react to a blog post from their friend Christopher S. Penn who writes and speaks frequently and intelligently on new trends in communications and technology. In his piece, Chris argued that agencies should review their business model and pricing structure in response to AI developments in 2023. While the co-hosts see artificial intelligence as a force that will (and already is) impacting agencies, they’re not on board with a wholesale change to agency models as a result. They argue that the value pricing approach advocated by Chris is far more difficult to implement in practice and doesn’t necessarily address the fundamental changes that AI may cause. Instead, Chip and Gini argue that agencies should be looking to better integrate AI into their own processes and understanding how it is transforming how their clients approach the challenges that agencies address. The path they recommend results in agencies evolving their solutions and delivery mechanisms rather than abruptly shifting course dramatically. Key takeaways Chip Griffin: “I think that it is certainly premature at best for an agency to say, I’m going to rethink my whole business model because of what AI is doing.” Gini Dietrich: “AI hasn’t created the death of the hourly business – the death of the hourly business has been here for a while.” Chip Griffin: “There are so many innovations that have made work more efficient and faster, and we’ve all figured out how to adapt to them, and it’s not simply by trying to figure out how do I protect my margins against a threat.” Gini Dietrich: “We have an expertise and we have experience. And those two things, along with the trust and the authority that we’ve built, are the reasons somebody is hiring us.” Resources Almost Timely News, September 17, 2023: AI And The Death of the Hourly Business Related Value pricing isn't the answer for every agency View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin Gini Dietrich: and I’m Gini Dietrich Chip Griffin: and Gini I think with all this AI thing, we need to change how we’re doing this whole podcast. Just throw it out and start over. Gini Dietrich: Great. Let’s do it. Chip Griffin: Right after this. Now that I think about it, maybe that’s a little bit of an overreaction to AI. Maybe. Maybe I should take it in and figure out how to, how to use AI as opposed to just discarding our entire podcast and starting over. Gini Dietrich: Or maybe we just let AI do it and we take the credit. Chip Griffin: Well, that’s a good idea. I would love to see how AI would like… Gini Dietrich: I actually, we actually should do an episode on that just to see. Put in props. Chip Griffin: See if we can get Chat GPT to mimic an episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. Gini Dietrich: I love it. I think that’s a funny idea. Chip Griffin: And then we’ll just, we’ll read our lines that it comes up with, that would be, I don’t know. Gini Dietrich: Something, that’d be something. Chip Griffin: That would be something. It would be something if it could even figure it out. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, that’s true. We should do a test like that at some point. Not for a whole episode. Chip Griffin: We have to be careful though, we don’t want this podcast to turn into actual work for us. Gini Dietrich: That’s, that’s a really good point. Chip Griffin: I mean, this is supposed to be, you know, we kibitz for a while, then we hit record and we just say whatever’s on our mind and we hit stop and then we turn it over to Jen. She does all the hard work while we just get to have a little bit of fun. Gini Dietrich: She does do all the hard work. And the best, the best is that she includes, I love that she does this. She includes like clips and stuff to other things that we’ve talked about, or she’ll include a meme or a couple of weeks ago, she included the, the link to the YouTube clip on or short on Tom using, yeah, using people as his footstool. I was like, this is great. She’s great at it. Chip Griffin: You know, she enjoys that part of it. I suspect there’s parts that she doesn’t enjoy, but I think she enjoys our references because it gives her an excuse to go and Google funny clips on the internet and call it work. Gini Dietrich: And then she emails me with funny, snarky remarks, which I also love. I’m a big Jen fan. Chip Griffin: So yes, I suspect at my expense. Not always. Anywho, so what we’re actually going to talk about today is AI and what it means for agencies and their business models, because this is something that came up recently in, of course, the Spin Sucks community. Gini Dietrich: Yep. So our friend Chris Penn recently wrote an article on value based pricing and artificial intelligence, and it was shared in the community, and there was a lively discussion about it, including, From our friend, Chip Griffin, who talked about, you know, whether or not this is applicable to agencies, whether or not we can use AI and how it works for value based pricing. And if AI is making us more efficient, should we be charging more because clients are getting the value of our expertise on top of the AI? Is that a nice way of putting it? Chip Griffin: Sure. Well, needless to say, I found this post to be rather triggering because it, it, it had two of my current triggers, AI and value based pricing just in the, right, just right there. And, and so red alerts, you know, so if Chris was trying to trigger me he couldn’t have found a better way to do it. And I know he wasn’t looking to do that because I, I’m fairly certain that I, you know, I’m not on Chris’s mind every day when he wakes up and says, how can I, how can I, well – Gini Dietrich: now he knows, now he knows, Chip Griffin: now, now he knows if you, if he would like to trigger me, just talk about value based pricing and or AI or put them both together and my head will explode. And look, I, I, You know, I will use the same disclaimer that I used in the community. Some version of, I think Chris is a smart guy. I love a lot of the stuff that he puts out. I follow, I used to sit there and watch him at his Saturday night data party on Facebook. You know, so, so clearly I am a Chris Penn fan. That said, I am not a fan of this post at all. I, I think that it is certainly premature at best for an agency to say, I’m going to rethink my whole business model because of what AI is doing. And to think that the solution is to try to find ways to charge more for the things that AI allows you to do easier, I just, I, I fail to understand that rationale that feels much more like the way old school people look at how do they protect themselves when technology comes along, right? And we have the, my point is that AI is just the latest in a series of technology. It’s cool. It’s great, but it’s, it’s not, it’s not something we haven’t seen before, right? There are so many innovations that have made work more efficient, things get done faster, and all that, and we’ve all figured out how to adapt to them, and it’s not simply by trying to figure out how do I protect my margins against a threat. Gini Dietrich: So I would say, yeah, I would say a couple of things. You know, one of the first things that he talks about in the article, and we’ll link to it in the show notes, is that AI has created the death of the hourly business, and I don’t think that that’s true, because the death of the hourly business has been here for a while. I can’t tell you, that’s actually not true. I was going to say, I can’t tell you the last time I, we, we, billed by the hour. We bill by the hour for crisis work. But nothing else. Everything else is project based or retainer based. And I think that you and I have been talking about this for how many episodes? 205 episodes now? There is, the death of the hourly business has been here and come and gone. And, and even when Phyllis shared the article in the Spin Sucks community, she said we price per project, per project, as I’m sure many of you do as well. So she preempted that by saying, like, we don’t bill by the hour. So what is it about the value based pricing in here that’s beyond the hour, hourly business? Because I think that piece of it is dead, has, is dead, has been dead. You know, nobody, I, I don’t even think attorneys are doing that – my attorney doesn’t bill by the hour anymore. It’s dead. Chip Griffin: I, I disagree with that. We’ve talked about that before. I, I think that there’s a time and place for hourly billing. Obviously, you, you still do it with crisis work, as you said. Yep. And so I think that you know, you should always look at your various options for pricing and figure out what works best for you as well as for your prospects and clients. And in some cases that may be hourly billing. So I, I don’t subscribe to, you know, you should default to no hourly billing, right? I, I think that in many cases it adds complexity and tension that’s unnecessary. And when you have a pretty good sense of how much time something is going to take, I would prefer a fixed fee approach. I mean, my attorney still does charge by the hour. Absolutely. You know, I, I’ve used plumbers recently for some of that they charge by the hour still, right? There are still time there’s when you don’t know how long something is going to take it is the, it is the most fair pricing solution for both parties to do hourly billing. Because if, if neither side really knows how long it’s going to take and you do fixed fee, then someone is, is likely going to get it stuck to them in the end, right? Because either you have to overcharge to protect yourself against the fact that it might take more time. And then if it takes less, now you’re overcharging the recipient, right? So, I, you know, but if you have a reasonable idea of how long it’s going to take within a reasonable margin of error, by all means, use fixed fee. But I, to me, it’s… The whole argument about hourly just doesn’t make sense. People always, you know, somehow lawyers always come into the hourly billing conversation. And so, you know, in the specific, one of the specific examples that Chris used in the post is how he had put together some legal agreement with ChatGPT for a friend and a lawyer reviewed it and said, yep, it’s good to go with no edits. And so, so this is how we must know that hourly billing is dead and it’s going to doom lawyers that ChatGPT exists. Except that, there have always been things that have made it faster and easier for lawyers to do things. My father was a lawyer. I remember going to his office in the late 70s, early 80s, and they sat there and he had a secretarial pool that would type things up that he would, he would record into a dictaphone. You probably need to look that up, but it used to be that you had a handheld telephone. That you would, that you, the attorneys would speak their letters and contracts into, and then someone else would listen to the tape back, and they would type it on a manual typewriter. That would then, you know, have to be edited on paper and then retyped all of this kind of right. So he had that. He had a huge library in the basement of his of his building with all of these case books and law books, and that’s where they went to get information. Now, attorneys type their own letters and contracts. They don’t have a secretary who does it for them. They type into their computer in LexisNexis and they get the citations that they need immediately, just like that. They don’t have to go hunting for it. So the level of efficiency is many orders of magnitude greater than it was in the 70s and 80s. And yet, the hourly billing model is still very much alive and well. And I don’t know about the attorneys you know in your life, but most of them do pretty well. And they’re billing by the hour in most cases still. Some, as you note, have, have stopped doing that. But, but I would say by and large, the attorneys that I come into contact with still use it. So, the hourly billing model is not dead. And AI is not going to destroy it. Because if ChatGPT is your, the only thing that you’re doing, you’re just generating contracts, well then, you didn’t need a lawyer in the first place. Go download a template from somewhere. You can do that already. Gini Dietrich: This contradicts what you said last week, which was never, never use something that hasn’t been reviewed by an attorney. So if you’re going to download the template… Chip Griffin: but if you’re just going to ask ChatGPT to do it, you might as well just download the template, right? I mean, at least the template probably was reviewed at some point in time by some lawyers somewhere. ChatGPT was never reviewed by a lawyer anywhere. Right? So you’ll give, if you give me a choice between the two, I’m probably going to pick the template that some lawyer likely reviewed, particularly with, you know, my knowledge of ChatGPT hallucinating things or that kind of stuff, or the fact that ChatGPT is out of date. And so if there are laws or regulations that will come along in the interim that cause, that mean your contractor agreement should be different, well, ChatGPT can’t by definition know about that. And good lawyers ask you a lot of questions to figure out what you really need and to help you understand what the risks are because there’s not a one size fits all contract or agreement for anyone. You can cover everything, but if you do that, you’ll probably never get the other party to sign. Right. So a good lawyer sits with you and says, okay, let’s talk about the work you’re doing. Let’s talk about what you’re worried about from a risk standpoint. How much exposure are you willing to accept? And that’s how you figure out what to include or exclude for your personal circumstances. ChatGPT cannot do that in 2023. Gini Dietrich: I think you bring up a really great point too, which is the same for for agency owners, which is we have an expertise and we have experience. And those two things, along with the trust that we’ve built and the authority that we’ve built, those, those things are what somebody is hiring us for, right? They’re hiring us because we have expertise and experience that they either don’t have internally, or that they need extra brains around because there’s something coming up. And that’s why they hire agencies. They don’t hire agencies because they have a team internally who can do it. And oh, they’re just going to use ChatGPT. And can we just review it? That’s not how it works. So yes, we can use ChatGPT to make us more efficient. And when we were talking before the show started, I relayed one of the things that we use it for pretty consistently, which is we have a client who does an hour long webinar every week. And before ChatGPT came into our lives, probably last November, we had, we, we would have it transcribed by Remy or Tev, and then we would. Or I just, just did that different, that Rev or Temi, my dyslexic brain. Chip Griffin: I was, I was trying to figure out where you were going. I’m like, I was trying to process that in my head and I thought it was actually someone’s name, like Remy somebody and… Gini Dietrich: Temi or Rev and, and then back before November, we would have to go through and clean it all up, and then we’d have to create content from it. Now what we do is we throw that transcript into ChatGPT, we have it cleaned up, and then we say, create three outlines for three blog posts on this, on this topic. So then it gives us a starting point and an outline for us to create the content, and it probably saves. 20 hours a week easily. Are we, we’re not charging more for that. We’re not charging less for that. What we’re doing is we’re saying, here’s all of this. And they’re, they’re ecstatic because they’re getting it so much faster. They’re getting it within a day instead of almost the following, almost the following week, they’re getting it really fast. So they’re ecstatic. And then we’re taking that time and we’re putting it into other things that we know need to be done for this client. So they’re like thinking they won the lottery because they’re paying the same exact amount, but they’re, they feel like they’re getting more. They’re getting something delivered a lot faster, several days faster than when we were doing it manually. And we’re doing other projects that have been on the back burner for several months because we, we’ve been spending all this time doing all this content that now ChatGPT helps us do. So my point is that It’s you’re not going to, you can use it to be efficient, but you don’t have to charge more or less because you’re using it and you don’t have to say, Oh, my gosh, it’s going to replace us because it’s making you more efficient. It’s giving you an opportunity to be able to do more for your clients. Chip Griffin: Right. And we’re constantly getting access to those kinds of things in the agency world. I mean, looking at, at all of the things that we do today as a PR or marketing agency in 2023, almost all of them are easier to do today than they were 20 or 30 years ago. Gini Dietrich: Absolutely. I mean, your example of the secretary pool. Chip Griffin: I can’t remember the last time I stood at a copy machine. Correct. Or a fax machine. Correct. Gini Dietrich: Or send packages back and forth to clients to get approval. Chip Griffin: Right. I mean, I load paper into my printer about once every six months now, right? You know, it’s, these are all things that took a lot of time before. Yes. And all of the technological advances have helped improve what we do, right? I mean, the, the mobile phones that we all carry with us have given us the ability to do things at times and places that we never could have before. Those are all good things if we figure out how to use them, right. AI is the same way. That’s right. AI is not a nuclear bomb. That’s going to come in and destroy everything. And, and so when I hear people talk about, you know, because of AI, we need to completely redo everything. No, we need to figure out how to integrate it in what we’re doing. And I love that you talked about how you can use it to make yourself more efficient and produce better, more timely results for clients. That is very different than the example of using AI to replace a lawyer or an agency or something like that. And if someone, if someone is going to use ChatGPT to replace the work that the agency is going to do… well, that’s not a, that’s not a playing field I want to be on anyway, right? I want them to understand why, why I can provide them something that is above and beyond what the AI can do. And to your point. We have as experts have knowledge. We have things that go beyond what the technology can presently do. And we can look out there and say, okay, here’s what’s going on in the world today. And so maybe you don’t want to say it this way. You want to say it that way. Or maybe you want to go with this particular approach because we’ve seen it working of late. If you’re relying on ChatGPT, it knows what worked a year and a half ago. Right. That’s not the same thing as an agency that’s staying on top of things. And it’s not, it’s also not human. So it can’t read people’s perceptions, at least again in 2023, in the same way that we as experts can. And so if someone wants to just use it and have it, you know, write press releases and put together target lists and have it do it all on its own. God bless ’em. Go do that. Those aren’t the clients that I’m trying to fight for. Gini Dietrich: No, and I think that the agencies wanting to do that as well are not the agencies that that should be hired because clients are hiring you for your experience and your expertise. And if you’re not going to add that on top of the artificial intelligence that you’re using to make yourself more efficient, then you’re not providing the best result that you can for your clients. So yes, absolutely use it. To make yourself more efficient. And yes, absolutely use it to, to create better, faster results. But you have to provide that expertise on top of it, or you’re not, there’s no reason for you to be in business at all. Chip Griffin: Right. And if you’re able to use it to make you more efficient, you know, some of that can go to your bottom line in the form of profits, some of that can go to increasing the bandwidth you have to do more for the client for the same fee. That’s right. I mean, you know, if you can, if you can shave off, you know, 10 hours a month because you’re using ChatGPT to do summaries and edits and that kind of stuff, I mean, certainly take some of that to your bottom line, but take some of those hours and do something more to produce some more results that are still within scope, I’m not encouraging scope creep here, but there’s a lot of things, even within scope. A lot of times we say, well, we just don’t have time to get to that this month. Have time to get to that. Deepen your relationship with that client. Make them stickier. Find a way to upsell them on something else. You’ll come out ahead in the end if you’re using it intelligently and not seeing it as a threat that causes you to have to redo and rethink everything. And if you’re going to redo and rethink everything, please, please don’t play with value pricing. It is, it is one of the most dangerous things for people to do who don’t even get basic pricing correct. And this is, I’ve talked about this before. And even if you listen to Blair Enns, who is probably the biggest proponent of value pricing, that is Win Without Pitching and, and the groups that he has and all that. He is a huge proponent, but he will tell you quite clearly that this is not pricing 101. You don’t start at value pricing. Value pricing is a graduate level activity. And so until you get to the point where you just can knock it out of the park with hourly or fixed rate billing. And you know you can do it consistently, reliably, profitably, in a way that your prospects are believing that they’re getting great results from you when they become clients. If you’re not able to do that, value pricing is not the answer. Because value pricing is very difficult. It’s very complicated. It requires you to have a real specialization in the work that you do, in the industries you serve, so that you understand what that true value is, and have the confidence that you truly can deliver that value in the same way that the client sees that value. Those are not easy things to do. It sounds great on paper, it feels good when you watch it in a 30 second YouTube short. That is not the same as actually implementing it in your agency in real life. Gini Dietrich: And I will tell you that there are situations that we do value pricing, but it’s things like speaking engagements. You know, where I, the, the client and there have been times where a prospect has said, I don’t understand why this costs so much money, you’re only going to be on stage for an hour. Yes. You’re right. I’m only going to be on stage for an hour, but I have 20 years behind me of experience that I’ve built to this level that allows me to be able to get on stage for an hour. And I’m going to be away from the business and, you know, like all of the other stuff that goes around it. So you have to be able to say, prove that the reason you’re asking for that price is because of all the stuff that you have around it. Not just because you’re spending only an hour on something, but because you actually have the expertise to be able to, to provide value based pricing. And it’s hard, like people will say, I just don’t understand why it costs so much money when you’re only going to be on stage for an hour. You’re like, okay, well then you’re not the right client for me. Chip Griffin: But see, even that I would argue is not truly value based pricing, right? That is premium pricing. And I think this is one of the areas where people get confused in the difference between premium pricing Right? I mean, a lawyer who charges you $1,000 an hour is engaging really in premium pricing. Value pricing, to use your speaking engagement example, would be you understanding what is the value to the event organizer for having you on the stage? What percentage of ticket sales can they attribute to the fact that you’re, you’re listed as a keynote? What percentage of the satisfaction of, of attendees derives from the fact that they loved the keynote that you gave? Right, that could, because that’s where you get to what the value is of your speech. The fact that you’ve got a lot of experience leading into it justifies the value, but it is not the true essence of value based pricing, which says, okay, I’m going to produce this press release for you. It’s going to generate, in my view, an additional 1,000,000 in sales, and I want a piece of that action. Maybe not explicitly, but because I know it’s going to generate a million in revenue. You know, it’s reasonable for me to ask for 100,000 for that one press release, right? Because it’s only 10%. So that’s not that bad. That’s value pricing. And the problem is that most people conflate premium pricing with value pricing. And, and for you to understand how much of, you know, what’s your true value as that event organizer, that would be incredibly difficult because you’d have to spend a lot of time understanding their business model. It would be incredibly difficult. Yep. Yep. And understanding, you know, what’s the difference if someone else is up there speaking instead? Gini Dietrich: And getting the data from them that they’re probably not going to give me. Chip Griffin: Correct. Correct. And so most of the examples, if you, if you read articles or you watch videos about this, most of the people who propose value pricing say you should say to them, okay Ms. Event Organizer how much, how much tickets are, or how many tickets are you going to sell at how much and, you know, how many keynote speakers do you have and how prominent am I going to be in that? And so, okay, so, you know, if I didn’t come, how do you think that would affect your revenue? First of all, most people aren’t going to answer any of those questions for you. That’s right. Even if they could, and a lot of them can’t answer those questions, even at your clients, even if it’s not an event, right? I mean, they just don’t have that access to information. And so if you’re truly going to go down this path, it’s a whole different world. And so I think we need to be really careful about that. We certainly need to make sure that we’re not undercutting ourselves. We don’t want to get into the business of trying to compete with AI. And so saying, well, ChatGPT can do it. So I’m only going to charge you 10 bucks for this press release because I know you could get it for free anyway. That’s not the way to do it. I’m not proposing that, but also, you know, don’t go out there and decide that, you know, you’re now going to charge 10 X for a press release because that’s, that’s how you’re going to protect your bottom line. That is not the way to go. So use it to your advantage. Don’t be afraid of it. And please be thoughtful about changes to your business model. Don’t just do it because, you know, you paid attention to some story about ChatGPT and decided it was the end of your world as you knew it. And so you need something entirely different. Gini Dietrich: No, it’s not. It’s not. You’re right. You’re right. Lots of changes have come that have made us more efficient and has not been the end of our world. Chip Griffin: Not at all. But if you want to trigger me, feel free to write about value pricing and AI, put it together. Gini Dietrich: I kind of feel like I should do something on SpinSucks, just to see. Chip Griffin: So thank you, Chris, for giving us a very passionate topic for us to talk about. And by all means go read his argument. He is a thoughtful guy and, and, you know, there are some points in there that I’m sure you can take away and make your own decision. But my, my view is just don’t do that. So with that, that will draw to an end this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich, Chip Griffin: and it depends.

In the world of professional services, how you approach sales and how you price your products or services can make or break your business. Our guest this week has seen how shifting from a price buyer to a value buyer mindset has a massive impact on the success of a business.This week we're learning from Blair Enns, the founder of Win Without Pitching. Blair is known for his impactful insights on pricing strategies and value-based selling in professional services, whose journey began 21 years ago. He perceived creative professionals as people working in advertising or design, a mindset that gradually transformed with the shifting dynamics of the creative firm market. He realised that creativity was more than that; it was the ability to see, bring a novel perspective to a problem, and propel entrepreneurs towards their vision. He now guides them through the process of selling, not as a predatory act, but as a path of facilitating and helping clients buy. Blair's path was not without its challenges. He grappled with the balance between selling as an expert versus a vendor, and the different outcomes each role could produce. While being an expert provided more power and leverage, being a vendor resulted in reduced impact, lower margins, and a higher cost of sale. Recognising the importance of vision and selling, Blair began to view these roles as the foundations of leadership, a perspective that helped him let go, take risks, and say no in order to scale his business. Embracing these lessons, Blair is now inspiring others to do the same, helping them navigate their own journeys in the world of professional services.Download and listen to learn more. On today's podcast: Overcoming the fear of sellingWinning without pitchingImplementing a bold pricing strategyShifting from price-buyer to value-buyer Follow Blair Enns:BooksLinkedIn2BOBS podcastTwitterYouTube Book recommendations:Million Dollar ConsultingImplementing Value Pricing$100M OffersThe Boutique. How to start, scale and sale a professional services firmSecret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors Enjoyed the show? Leave a Review

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training and coaching organization for creative professionals. You can find more information on his website: https://www.blairenns.com/

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training organization for creative professionals. He is the author of two books, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He is the co-host, along with David C. Baker, of the podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. Best of all, he is the guest on this week's show with Ron and Ed. A good portion of the show will be spend talking about The Innoficiency Principle. Blair laid out the thoughts behind this principle at this link and described it quite succinctly. From Blair: “The Innoficiency Principle states that innovation and efficiency are mutually opposable goals. In any reasonably functioning organization, one cannot be increased without decreasing the other.”

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training organization for creative professionals. He is the author of two books, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He is the co-host, along with David C. Baker, of the podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. Best of all, he is the guest on this week's show with Ron and Ed. A good portion of the show will be spend talking about The Innoficiency Principle. Blair laid out the thoughts behind this principle at this link and described it quite succinctly. From Blair: “The Innoficiency Principle states that innovation and efficiency are mutually opposable goals. In any reasonably functioning organization, one cannot be increased without decreasing the other.”

Even after understanding and trying to adopt the philosophies from Win Without Pitching, Blair sees many creative firms struggling to increase profit because of these six obstacles involving their people and processes.   Links Mastering the Value Conversation The Complexities of Commission Culture Innoficiency in Your Agency The Enemy Within The Complex Battle for Margin Debriefing After a New Business Call Is Your Firm Addicted to New Business? Who's Going to Own This?

In this podcast episode, Jeff Echols and Co-Host Katie Kengas welcomed Blair Enns to Context & Clarity LIVE. Blair is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training and coaching organization for creative professionals, the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He co-hosts of the popular podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship with David Baker. Blair is on a mission to change the way creative services are bought and sold the world over. To watch the full conversation, visit YouTube. If you enjoy this show, you can find similar content at Gābl Media.

On this episode of The Professional Services Pursuit, we are joined by Blair Enns, esteemed author and founder of Win Without Pitching. Our host Brent Tremble joins Blair to discuss the art of winning deals without the need to pitch for a client. The conversation includes valuable insights from his book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, which has sold over 80,000 copies and garnered more than 1,500 5-star reviews on Amazon.Other topics also discussed in this episode include:Where winning without pitching is applicable to a firmAn “advantaged player” and how that influences a relationshipThe new value-based approach to agency pricingA special giveaway opportunity for those who listen through the entire episode! For more information about the podcast or to enter the giveaway, please contact podcast@kantata.com.Click here to learn more about Blair's company – Win Without PitchingClick here to learn more about Blair's marketing podcast – 20% – The Marketing Procurement PodcastClick here to learn more about Blair's entrepreneurship podcast – 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship

Blair Enns is the Founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, a sales training and coaching organization for creative professionals. He has advised hundreds of design firms, advertising agencies, and other creative authorities on how to deprogram themselves from the standard approach to win new business.  Blair is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He is also the co-host of the 2Bobs podcast and 20% - The Marketing Procurement Podcast. In this episode of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast, John Corcoran interviews Blair Enns, the Founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, about his manifesto for helping companies pitch and win better business deals. They also discuss Blair's specialization principle, tips for having conversations about money, and the secret behind the success of Blair's 2Bobs podcast.

Are you undercharging for your services? The truth is, most people do… But it's time to take back the power in your relationships with clients so you can maximize your growth and profits… This week, we're revisiting my interview with Blair Enns, founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching.  Blair is a pricing expert who helps professionals revolutionize the way they sell their services. In this episode, he'll share: A system to set prices for any project or client The “Meet in the Middle” technique for getting the fee you want Why taking any project that comes your way loses you money How to sell your value, not your time The right way to set up retainer agreements And more

This week, we used a puff of smoke to catch pricing magician Blair Enns performing his favourite trick; making RFPs disappear.   Founder of Win Without Pitching and Author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity, Blair is dead set on getting creative businesses to price their work properly, single-handedly saving those who sell ideas for a living from giving them away for nada.  We pulled a ton of topics out of a hat including his early years in account management and new business, pitching and RFPs, generalist vs specialist agencies, value-based pricing, why your agency should have a portfolio of pricing models, pricing creatively, how to raise your prices with current clients (and not p**s them off in the process), search consultants, hissing cockroaches and loads more.    ///// Follow Blair on Twitter and LinkedIn  Check out Blair's website  Get his books Pricing Creativity and The Win Without Pitching Manifesto Here's the 2Bobs podcast  And listen to Blair's new show 20% The Marketing Procurement Podcast  Strange Creatures: Pitches, Search Consultants, and Hissing Cockroaches by Blair Enns Consultative Selling: Beating The Odds by Tom Lewis  Thank you to everyone who has lent their ears and their brains for over 100 episodes of the Call To Action® podcast. It's a real privilege. Please do share and review the podcast to help more marketers feel better about marketing.     Timestamps (01:52) - Quick fire questions (03:58) - Account management as a gateway drug into ad land  (09:38) - Doing new business remotely in 2000 (13:45) - The real problem with pitching  (21:44) - Value based pricing  (24:22) - Does the blame lie with agencies or clients?  (27:11) - Why pricing is a prison cell in your own mind of your own making (31:53) - Pricing as a creative act  (37:25) - The importance of presenting more than one price (43:28) - Listener questions  (50:36) - 4 pertinent posers  Blair's book recommendations are:  $100M Offers by Alex Hormozi  The Boutique by Greg Alexander  The Business of Expertise by David C. Baker  /////

Shannyn Lee of www.winwithoutpitching.com is the perfect interview guest if you'd love to be charging more for your work, feel icky talking about money and hate the idea of selling. She has spent over a decade in marketing, then business development, and worked on the front lines attracting great customers and generating fantastic [...] The post PBX481: Shannyn Lee – How to win without pitching in your photography business appeared first on Photography Business Xposed - Photography Podcast - how to build and market your portrait and wedding photography business.

Premium Members, click here to access this interview in the premium area. Shannyn Lee of www.winwithoutpitching.com is the perfect interview guest if you'd love to be charging more for your work, feel icky talking about money and hate the idea of selling. She has spent over a decade in marketing, then business development, and worked [...] The post 481: Shannyn Lee – How to win without pitching in your photography business appeared first on Photography Business Xposed - Photography Podcast - how to build and market your portrait and wedding photography business.

Has this ever happened to you? A new client contacts you looking for a designer. Their project sounds fun, and you seem to hit it off well with them. They verbally agree to your terms, and since everything sounds encouraging, you send them a formal proposal. And you wait in anticipation for them to approve your proposal and give you the go-ahead to get started on their project. And then you wait and wait, but you don't hear back. You send follow-up emails but don't receive any replies. The client has ghosted you. If you're not familiar with the term "ghosted," it's when someone ends all communication and contact with another person without any apparent warning or justification. Subsequently, they ignore any attempts to reach out or communication made by the person they're ghosting. And by that definition, this client is ghosting you. And it's not only with new clients. Sometimes an exiting client may ghost you in the middle of a project. You send them a proof and don't hear back. Or you ask them a question or for content you need, and you don't get a reply. This is any time you don't hear back from a client for whatever reason, even after several failed attempts at contacting them. What do you do? You send them The Magic Email, that's what. The Magic Email. What is The Magic Email, you ask? According to Blair Enns, Author and CEO of Win Without Pitching, a sales training organization for creative professionals. The Magic Email is a message you send to raise deals from the dead. That's its purpose, to solicit a response from someone who has been avoiding you. According to Enns, you must resist the temptation of sending an overly polite email. He suggests you do the opposite. Don't make excuses for your client's behaviour. And don't go soliciting a yes or any other answer from them. Enns suggests you strip away all emotions and let your prospect go matter-of-factly. And you that that with the following Magic Email. Within the last existing email thread, you had with your client, hit reply, change the subject to "Closing the Loop," and then write the following. Hi [FirstName]; I haven't heard back from you on [project/opportunity], so I'm going to assume you've gone in a different direction or your priorities have changed. Let me know if we can be of assistance in the future. Regards, [You] That's it. Enns says this removes the emotional reasons for the prospect to continue avoiding you. You are stripping out your neediness by no longer feigning politeness, by not asking how they've been or by being anything other than completely practical. This Magic Email says, "I can read between the lines, and you have decided we are not doing business together. No hard feelings – it's just business. You can call me if things change." What to expect after sending The Magic Email. You can expect one of three things to happen when you send The Magic Email. 1. Silence. Silence is the least likely scenario where you don't get a response at all. There's no longer any reason for the client not to wrap things up. All they have to do is send you a one-line acknowledgement email to remove this stress from their own lives. 2. Thank You. The client will send you a reply acknowledging that they have decided to cancel the project or they've moved in a different direction. This gives you closure and allows you to stop wasting energy over something that wasn't going to happen and move on to other clients and projects. There's no need to sulk about it. The deal was already done, probably a long time ago. The client just didn't tell you. 3. No, Wait! This is the response you're hoping for. According to Enns, by retreating unemotionally, where you might otherwise be inclined to advance, you suddenly become the one that might get away. The client stops seeing you as the predator that keeps sending them emails, to the prize they're about to lose. There's a psychological effect of this unemotional retreat that can be staggering in its effectiveness. And any resentment the client had over you harassing them turns into guilt about not replying to you earlier. This gives you the upper hand emotionally, and you suddenly become much more attractive to the client. You can learn more about all of this on Blair Enns site winwithoutpitching.com Variations of The Magic Email. Variation by Kai Davis We recently had a discussion in the Resourceful Designer Community about The Magic Email. Particularly about the different variations. Kai Davis of kaidavis.com adapted his Magic Email from Blair Enns' He says he split-tested it, and his version works better. His version is to send this one-sentence email. "Since I have not heard from you on this, I have to assume your priorities have changed." That's it, nothing else. Davis says it works because it's simple, intentionally vague, and effective. People are loss averse. Meaning their natural inclination is to reply immediately to keep you from walking away. You are taking back control of the situation by declaring it's over. Davis goes on to say that you may find this email rude. And that's the discussion we had in the Resourceful Designer Community. But he says it's not rude, just direct. It's the client who doesn't answer your emails that is rude. The person has already ignored you for weeks, so you have nothing to lose. It's just business. To learn more from Kai Davis' use of The Magic Email at themagicemail.com Variation by Chris Voss You can find another variation of The Magic Email in former FBI negotiator Chris Voss's book Never Split The Difference. Voss' variation is a simple message that provokes a "no" response, which gives the other party a feeling of safety and the illusion of control while encouraging them to define their position and explain it to you. This is how it works. Reply to an existing email thread. Change the subject line to a "no-oriented question." such as "have you given up on this?" In the body of the message, write the same or a very similar sentence. Don't add details or explanations. One short sentence is all you need. For example. "Have you given up on this project?" or "Have you moved in a different direction?" According to Voss, this is not a trick or technique. It's a respectful approach that gives the other party the freedom to respond truthfully to you without pressure. Which variation would you use? What version of The Magic Email would you use? We had our discussion in the Resourceful Designer Community, but I would love to know your thoughts. Leave a comment below and let me know how you approach clients who are ghosting you. Nobody likes to be ignored. And it's a waste of time and energy pursuing someone ghosting you. It's frustrating. So the next time something like this happens to you, try sending a variation of The Magic Email and see what happens. Who knows. You may light that fire under the client and get your stalled project back on track.

Inspired by some observations of what sometimes happens to people on the journey from vendor to expert, Blair sees some newbie Win Without Pitching devotees going too far–power tripping. Read the episode notes and transcript at http://2bobs.com/podcast/hard-lines-soft-lines

Stumbles into the advertising field, gravitates to the new business development function and the rest is history!

Managing director of Win Without Pitching shares how to shift the power in the sales process from the buyer to the seller. And how to have the confidence to let go of the typical pitch process.

Merry Easter dear listener, I hope you're well and I hope you had copious amounts of chocolate or not as the case may be. I'm taking a bit of time out over the Easter Mid Term break to hang out with the kids, have the craic, and of course, help them eat their Easter eggs. That is my duty. That is my calling at Easter time.    Welcome to podcast 221, which we are pre-recording. And which you are getting to listen to a bit of bonus content. Something a little bit different than the norm. It is a really interesting interview with the director of coaching from a company called Win Without Pitching. A US-based pricing strategy, value recognition, company. If that means nothing to you, bear with me and bear with this conversion.   I do believe that the concepts, and the thinking that Shannyn Lee is about to share with us in this podcast interview which was recorded in 2021, will help everyone. It was released as part of the Tribe podcast series last year.    We're re-releasing it to the general public today because I believe there is so much value in this for everybody. The concepts and thinking will encourage all of us to really consider our value.    Give it the 40 minutes and let it stew in your brain. I guarantee you, if you're open to it, it will help you in some way, shape, or form.    Thanks Paddy

The Nice Podcast is brought to you by Futureforth.com. We help fast-growing tech companies onboard, create, and keep happier more connected employees. Please leave us a review. Colton Mulligan is the CEO and Chief Strategist at FoxFuel Creative. He also facilitates retreats and workshops for CEOs and entrepreneurs. He loves stories and drinking Negronis. What we talked about... Owning your work and honesty in what you do. Transitioning from being a bad boss to a better one. Creating a fertile environment to grow and reducing the fear of failure. Being a sponge of knowledge to improve your leadership skills. The Win Without Pitching manifesto. Emotional Intelligence 2.0, Strengths Finder. Better Book Club - My interview with Arnie Malham. AMA Coffees. Sherry Deutschmann's “Lunch with Lucy”. EO Nashville. Building relationships at work. Scheduling mini-retreats with new hires and the rest of the team. How the pandemic has affected culture. Creating a hybrid work schedule that fits everyone. Success by being nice while networking. Asking questions. Cameras on policy while working remotely. Read Emotional Intelligence 2.0 Contact Colton at foxfuelcreative.com. We ❤️ Our Listeners. Please be sure to follow the show and leave a review wherever you subscribe to podcasts. Reviews and sharing the show are the nicest ways to support the show and are deeply appreciated. Thank you.

What's the secret to creating value, scaling, and growing your business? In this conversation with entrepreneur and author Blair Enns, we learn it's not about doing more or better, and it may be about doing less.Discover why growing your business requires more than good habits. In this episode, I'm talking with Blair Enns from Win Without Pitching. Win Without Pitching is an organization that runs sales and new business development training programs for owners and employees of design firms, ad agencies, PR practices, and other creative businesses. A lot of what he talks about is also relevant for your business. Blair is the author of the Win Without Pitching Manifesto, (a book I designed through my branding agency, Aespire) and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour (the second of Blair's books Aespire designed. I suppose you can say the agency is habit-forming).Listen to hear the life-changing lesson Blair learned when he says, "Some lessons take me so long to learn, like the idea that other people could do what I do."Find Blair Enns atWin Without Pitching http://wwp.tv/blog2Bobs Podcast: http://wwp.tv/podcastThe Win Without Pitching Manifesto

In this episode of Chats with Chip, Shannyn Lee of Win Without Pitching joins to talk about how agencies can step up their business development game.

In this episode of Chats with Chip, Shannyn Lee of Win Without Pitching joins to talk about how agencies can step up their business development game.

Shannyn Lee, Director of Coaching at the business development training program for leaders of creative firms worldwide, Win Without Pitching joins us for episode 3. The program brings a new depth to client engagement and the ability to shift the sales conversation to a values conversation based on expertise. Check out the Win Without Pitching Website: www.winwithoutpitching.com Take a look at the Win Without Pitching Manifesto: bit.ly/wwpmanifesto 2Bobs Podcast: 2bobs.com/podcast

Tim Yeadon and Erik Molano discuss the need for design and culture-centric spaces and how Photon Factory focuses on creating beautiful and flexible brand spaces. They also cover why Erik chose to run an agency, the value of working for and with a small company, a Marketing Agency's biggest blind spot (hint: it has to do with marketing yourself). Erik also tells us about the many processes of pitching to a client and discusses ‘Win Without Pitching' by Blair Enns. Lastly, Tim asks about the social responsibilities of an agency owner and best practices for inclusivity in the workplace. Tim Yeadon is the host of Input Doc and creative director of Clyde Golden is an advertising and creative agency in Seattle specializing in research, strategy, and content creation (earnestly delivered in that order) via customer journey programs.

https://entrearchitect.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/ShannynLee-87111.jpg ()Decide to Win with Shannyn Lee of Win Without Pitching In the midst of COVID-19, small firm architects are searching for new ways to not only survive, but thrive. How can you decide to win? How can you put yourself in a place to help others during this season of uncertainty? This week on EntreArchitect podcast, Decide to Win with Shannyn Lee of Win Without Pitching.  Connect with Shannyn online at https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/about/ (Win Without Pitching), and find her on https://twitter.com/blairenns (Twitter), https://www.instagram.com/winwithoutpitching/ (Instagram) and https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannyn-lee-2a32846/ (LinkedIn). Gābl Members Earlier this week we announced https://preview.convertkit-mail.com/click/dpheh0hz/aHR0cDovL2VudHJlYXJjaGl0ZWN0LmNvbS9nYWJsbm93 (Gābl Members) as a way for you to help us build Gābl Media (our new media network for podcast and video production) into a network that will truly change the world. As a Gābl Member, you will always gain first access to new shows and have an opportunity to provide feedback on the content we currently have in development. We are building this media network for you, so you should have an opportunity to help us build it. If you are ready to support Gābl Media, just https://preview.convertkit-mail.com/click/78i7h8hv/aHR0cDovL2VudHJlYXJjaGl0ZWN0LmNvbS9nYWJsbm93 (click here) and join Gābl Members as a Charter Member for only $19 per year. Visit Our Platform Sponsors Freshbooks is the easy way to send invoices, manage expenses, and track your time. Access your free 30-day trial at https://entrearchitect.com/freshbooks (EntreArchitect.com/FreshBooks). (Enter EntreArchitect) ARCAT has huge libraries of free content, Specs, CAD, BIM and more. No registration required. Want to collaborate with colleagues in real-time? Visit https://entrearchitect.com/ARCAT (EntreArchitect.com/ARCAT) and click Charrette for more information. The post https://entrearchitect.com/podcast/entrearch/decide-to-win/ (EA318: Decide to Win with Shannyn Lee of Win Without Pitching) appeared first on https://entrearchitect.com (EntreArchitect // Small Firm Entrepreneur Architects).

Blair Enns is CEO of Win Without Pitching and the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. Blair joins […] The post 045 Pitching and Pricing Smart – Agency Advisor Blair Enns appeared first on The Creative Agency Podcast.

In this episode we're joined by the brilliant Blair Enns from Win Without Pitching to explore his innovative approach to new business for agencies. He shares some of the fundamentals required to sell based on value to command higher prices and close more deals. We also discuss how the sales process can make or break your delivery process by setting precedents in the client relationship and so much more. About Blair Enns Blair Enns is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He co-hosts, along with David C. Baker, and the podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. Based in the remote mountain village of Kaslo, British Columbia, Canada, Blair lectures throughout the world on how creative professionals can win more business at higher prices and lower cost of sale.  Resources from Blair: Win Without Pitching Blog: [CLICK HERE] The Win Without Pitching Manifesto Book: [CLICK HERE] Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour: [CLICK HERE] 2 Bobs Podcast: [CLICK HERE] Follow Blair Online: Website: [CLICK HERE] LinkedIn: [CLICK HERE] Twitter: [CLICK HERE]

How can you avoid pitching and price your services higher? If you are someone who makes a living from selling creative services (or any professional services) this episode is pure gold. I had the privilege to talk to Blair Enns, founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, a training and coaching company with a focus on helping creative firms learn how to sell and price their services. Blair shares brilliant insights from his two books, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, and Pricing Creativity - A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. Check out Blair's company and order his books and training programs at www.winwithoutpitching.com Connect with my companies: www.wonderagency.com www.kokoromoi.com or email me at hello@tobiasdahlberg.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobbedahlberg/

Pricing for creative services has always been a difficult topic. As creative entrepreneurs, we often feel embarrassed about charging a high amount for our work. We'll set rate based on time spent or put a fixed package rate up on our website. As a result, we often undervalue our services. The prices you set shouldn't be based on the cost of the input or the market value of the deliverables. They should be based on the value that you're adding to the client and also the risk that you're taking on. At the end of the day, value comes down to a feeling and what people are willing to pay for that feeling. Services are either a productized business (pursuing scale) or a customized services business (pursuing quality). If you're not a productized business, you need to stop pricing yourself as such. You can reserve the right to charge different clients based on how they value your business. Bring the same creativity you use in your work to your business model. To dive deeper into this concept, I've brought on an expert who knows all about the art of pricing: Blair Enns. Blair's sales training program for creative professionals, Win Without Pitching, seeks to change the way creative services are bought and sold in the world. Blair wrote The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond The Billable Hour. Download this episode today to learn to price your creative services based on value to the client and risk involved instead of a fixed rate. WARRIOR OF GRACE "In life, all profit comes from risk." -Blair Enns Highlights - Our prices should be based on the value to the client. The Value Triad consists of revenue gains, cost reduction, and emotional contributions. Ending a price with a "9" signals to people that the item is on sale. Always offer price options. Price the client, not the job. Don't put prices on your website. You need to decide whether yours is a customized service business (pursuing quality) or a productized business (pursuing scale). The last obstacle in pricing creativity is you. Don't be embarrassed about making a lot of money. The exchange of money is a certificate of appreciation. Guest Contact - Blair's Website Blair's Twitter Blair's Book: The Win Without Pitching Manifesto Contact Jeffrey - Website Coaching support My book, LINGO: Discover Your Ideal Customer's Secret Language and Make Your Business Irresistible is now available! Watch my TEDX LincolnSquare video and please share! Resources - Have Your Website Brand Message Reviewed! Is your website and are all your marketing materials speaking the right LINGO of your ideal customers? Often it's not which is why you're not converting traffic and leads to clients and attracting your most profitable customers. Fill out the simple LINGO Review application and I'll take a look at your website. If I have suggestions for you to improve your brand message (I almost always do), we'll set up a complimentary 30-minute call to discuss. A select number of websites are also chosen for my LINGO Review Video Series. Fill out the application today and let's get your business speaking the right LINGO! Music by Jawn

Blair Enns, CEO of Win Without Pitching (Kaslo, British Columbia) and author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour   Blair Enns is Founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, a company that trains creative agencies on how to win business without giving away their most valuable product—their intellectual property—in getting that business. Blair authored two business books that have proven to be transformational for many creative firms: The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. Key to the power of these books is Blair's recognition that Creative people have an inherent difficulty with “sales.”   Blair defines creativity as “the ability to see, the ability to bring a novel perspective to a problem you haven't previously solved.” Creative people tend to build businesses that allow them to solve problems they haven't previously solved. However, their personal desire for variety does not work from a business standpoint—to build a strong, financially solid firm, they need to differentiate, to focus on doing a specific thing for a specific market.   In this interview, Blair emphasizes the importance of client selection . . . of building your business with clients who are interested in value and a return on investment . . . rather than chasing budget-driven clients who are focused solely on price—those who see marketing as a commodity with charges based on billable hours and the cost of materials. The foundation of a strong business is value-driven clients who recognize that creativity is unique in its ability to produce bottom-line results and worth the investment. Although a creative agency might sell excess capacity to price-buyers, it is critical that the agency “strip out the extras” for the reduced-price client, instead of trying to “fly everyone first class.”   Blair is very clear that a price-focused buyer is unlikely to become a value-focused buyer. The creative's job is to discern a buyer's-type and manage that buyer appropriately.   Blair is available on his company's website: winwithoutpitching.com and as Blair Enns on Twitter and LinkedIn. If you're interested in his book, Pricing Creativity, go to pricingcreativity.com.  

Episode #349 of the podcast features an interview with Blair Enns. Discussion topics include: How to position yourself as an expert practitioner and win without pitching. The post 349: Blair Enns – The Power Principle & How to Win Without Pitching appeared first on Sprout Studio.

https://entrearchitect.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/BEnnsHeadshot.jpg () Pricing Creativity What is it that we sell as small firm architects? Is it a pile of paper? A bunch of technical services? A legal process required to obtain a building permit? What we sell is a desired future state. Whether we’re working with commercial, institutional or residential clients, they have an idea in their minds about how they’d like their lives to be in the future. We’ve all experienced the moment at the end of the project when our clients finally get it and understand the value we provide. We need them to understand the value of what we do before we do it. This week at EntreArchitect Podcast, Pricing Creativity with Author Blair Enns. Background Blair Enns is the sand in the free pitching machine. Through his sales training program for creative professionals, https://amzn.to/2KMzwyJ (Win Without Pitching), he is on a mission to change the way creative services are bought and sold the world over. He is the author of https://amzn.to/2KMzwyJ (The Win Without Pitching Manifesto) and https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/pricingcreativity/ (Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond The Billable Hour). Blair lives with his family in the remote mountain village of Kaslo, British Columbia, Canada. Origin Story Blair lives in a small mountain village in British Columbia, Canada. He grew up in the center of Canada, in business side of the advertising and design professions. He began as an account manager and moved into new business roles as his strengths developed. He started Win Without Pitching as a consulting practice and a way to earn a living so that he could drop out of the advertising profession. One day, he realized his limitations in the business were going to take him out if he didn’t change them. He began to scale out and build a training organization in early 2013. Do you see a lot of creative and profit difference in your circles? When people start their own small firms as artists, you’re doing it for fun. Sometimes we delude ourselves to think the money will come one day, or that it’s not about the money. One day, you realize you’re tired of having fun and ready to make money. What do you do if you’re a creative professional who loves design and wants to make money? If you’re going into business for yourself, the business part is more important than the art. Get a business education. Instead of just being inspired and only focusing on the art; you’ll burn yourself out and be unable to find success. It’s about value creation for your clients. Learn how to select and shape good clients and good engagements, and your best engagements will allow you to bring your artistic skills to the table – always to the ultimate goal of delivering value to the client.  You have something you want to do with every client you have, but it’s not just about you. Your focus is on your client and their different values. What is price discrimination?  Different people are willing to pay different amounts for the same thing and your job is to let them. The reason they’ll pay different amounts is because the value to them is different. You have the license to charge as much as you want to. You may evaluate something as valued one way, where your client thinks it’s worth half that. What do you do in that situation? Offer options. If your client asks for a proposal, what you put forward should have options. Delivering one proposal puts your client a take-it-or-leave-it situation. They have a choice to make based on comparison, so enable and facilitate them to compare your options and figure out which is the best value. If they don’t like your option, they’ll go away and compare your proposal to other bids. Your clients are going to make comparisons anyway, so enable and facilitate those comparisons for them. With each...

Blair Enns is a 25-year veteran of the business side of creative professions. In 2002, he launched Win Without Pitching. In this episode, you're going to learn exactly that. Have questions or comments for me? Drop me a line on our Facebook page.  DOMINATE! MC