Podcasts about win without pitching manifesto

One of the worst parts of the job for many? Figuring out pricing. If you've ever had to price anything, this is a must listen episode. Blair Enns is the visionary behind Win Without Pitching, the organization that's rewritten the rules on how expert advisors and creatives close deals. As the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity, plus co-host of the 2Bobs Podcast, Blair has redefined integrity-based selling and value-based pricing for countless leaders. In this episode, he and Ryan explore why fear is an inevitable part of the sales process and how embracing courage can help you command higher fees. Blair shares practical strategies to avoid “pitching prisons,” from anchoring high on pricing to structuring proposals with multiple options. He also shares some nuggets from his new book, The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise, and reveals the unexpected path that led him from big-city advertising to a remote Canadian mountain town, where his mission to help businesses thrive took root.

For this episode of Sell With Authority we are doubling down on value-based pricing to help you future-proof your agency. Our guest expert is a true authority when it comes to pricing and sales strategy. Blair Enns, the CEO of Win Without Pitching and the author of the widely acclaimed Win Without Pitching Manifesto joins the podcast. His latest book, Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour, is a must-read for anyone looking to get a handle on pricing in their business. I was inspired by one of his articles on quantifying the value of pricing. Specifically, the part about ‘the elephant in the room' when it comes to pricing really hit home — because we've all been there. The uncertainty pricing brings to agency owners is a challenge we just can't ignore. So, I knew we had to bring Blair on the show to dive into this topic and help us all navigate the complexities of pricing with confidence. And to make this conversation even richer, also joining is our very own Mad Scientist and Strategist, Hannah Roth. Hannah works tirelessly in the trenches with our clients, helping them fill their sales pipelines with right-fit clients so they can sell more of what they do best. If you're an agency owner struggling with pricing, this episode will give you the framework and confidence you need to untether from time-based billing. A big dose of gratitude to our presenting sponsor for the podcast, Conduit Digital. By using their expertise in streamlining, upgrading & scaling your clients…they promise to reduce your risk so you can become the best digital agency in your market in 30-days. You can find Conduit and all their helpful insights and smarts here. What you will learn in this episode: How to shift from selling inputs and outputs to focusing on value creation for right-fit clients Why mastering the value conversation can radically transform your agency's profitability Blair's simple – yet powerful – four-step framework for implementing value-based pricing How to view your client portfolio as an investment portfolio to tailor pricing strategies The pitfalls to avoid when transitioning away from traditional pricing models Resources: Website: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/ LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/win-without-pitching/ Win Without Pitching Manifesto Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour Additional Resources: Website: www.predictiveroi.com Visit our newly expanded Resource Library Join us in our free How to Fill Your Sales Pipeline Facebook Group

In this second part of our discussion with Blair Enns, we explore the internal dynamics that influence agency-client relationships. Host Dom Hawes and Blair continue to discuss balancing efficiency and innovation, focusing on how departmental goals can conflict with overarching business objectives. They examine bounded rationality, the inefficiency principle, and the role of leadership in fostering a culture that supports both operational efficiency and creative innovation. Blair introduces his upcoming book, which outlines four key conversations that can help frame the process of selling expertise and ensuring effective client relationships.What you'll get from this episode:Understanding the impact of departmental silos.Strategies for effective agency-client relationships.The importance of aligning business goals across departments.How leadership can drive cultural change for better innovation.Join us for practical insights on creating value-driven partnerships that foster innovation and drive business success.About Blair EnnsBlair is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training program for expert advisors, and the author of three books on selling and pricing. The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise is available from Gegen Press on Amazon in September, 2024.Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour (2018) is available at pricingcreativity.com. The Win Without Pitching Manifesto (2010) is available on Amazon.Links Full show notes: Unicorny.co.uk LinkedIn: Blair Enns | Dom Hawes Website: Win Without PitchingSponsor: Selbey Anderson This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacyPodder - https://www.podderapp.com/privacy-policyChartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

In this second part of our discussion with Blair Enns, we explore the internal dynamics that influence agency-client relationships. Host Dom Hawes and Blair continue to discuss balancing efficiency and innovation, focusing on how departmental goals can conflict with overarching business objectives. They examine bounded rationality, the inefficiency principle, and the role of leadership in fostering a culture that supports both operational efficiency and creative innovation. Blair introduces his upcoming book, which outlines four key conversations that can help frame the process of selling expertise and ensuring effective client relationships.What you'll get from this episode:Understanding the impact of departmental silos.Strategies for effective agency-client relationships.The importance of aligning business goals across departments.How leadership can drive cultural change for better innovation.Join us for practical insights on creating value-driven partnerships that foster innovation and drive business success.About Blair EnnsBlair is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training program for expert advisors, and the author of three books on selling and pricing. The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise is available from Gegen Press on Amazon in September, 2024.Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour (2018) is available at pricingcreativity.com. The Win Without Pitching Manifesto (2010) is available on Amazon.Links Full show notes: Unicorny.co.uk LinkedIn: Blair Enns | Dom Hawes Website: Win Without PitchingSponsor: Selbey Anderson This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacyPodder - https://www.podderapp.com/privacy-policyChartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Today's episode of Unicorny tackles the complex dynamics between brand marketers and creative agencies, focusing on the dysfunctional commercial relationships that have emerged over recent years. Host Dom Hawes is joined by Blair Enns, founder of “Win Without Pitching”. They explore how procurement practices and outdated commercial models hinder innovation and value creation. Blair offers insights into redefining these relationships to foster mutual success. Challenges in the client-agency commercial model. The impact of procurement on creativity.Shifting focus from outputs to business outcomes.Balancing efficiency and innovation.Tune in to understand how to build stronger, more effective relationships between marketers and agencies, ensuring sustainable success for both parties.About Blair EnnsBlair is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training program for expert advisors, and the author of three books on selling and pricing. The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise is available from Gegen Press on Amazon in September, 2024.Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour (2018) is available at pricingcreativity.com. The Win Without Pitching Manifesto (2010) is available on Amazon.Links Full show notes: Unicorny.co.uk LinkedIn: Blair Enns| Dom Hawes Website: Win Without PitchingSponsor: Selbey Anderson This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacyPodder - https://www.podderapp.com/privacy-policyChartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Today's episode of Unicorny tackles the complex dynamics between brand marketers and creative agencies, focusing on the dysfunctional commercial relationships that have emerged over recent years. Host Dom Hawes is joined by Blair Enns, founder of “Win Without Pitching”. They explore how procurement practices and outdated commercial models hinder innovation and value creation. Blair offers insights into redefining these relationships to foster mutual success. Challenges in the client-agency commercial model. The impact of procurement on creativity.Shifting focus from outputs to business outcomes.Balancing efficiency and innovation.Tune in to understand how to build stronger, more effective relationships between marketers and agencies, ensuring sustainable success for both parties.About Blair EnnsBlair is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training program for expert advisors, and the author of three books on selling and pricing. The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise is available from Gegen Press on Amazon in September, 2024.Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour (2018) is available at pricingcreativity.com. The Win Without Pitching Manifesto (2010) is available on Amazon.Links Full show notes: Unicorny.co.uk LinkedIn: Blair Enns| Dom Hawes Website: Win Without PitchingSponsor: Selbey Anderson This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacyPodder - https://www.podderapp.com/privacy-policyChartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Welcome to episode 112. I'm joined by Shannyn Lee, Managing Director of Win Without Pitching ®, which is widely recognised by the creative industry as one of the best quality sales training programs because it's specifically tailored to agencies. This episode will be particularly valuable for you if your job at the agency is winning new business and you'd like to know how to do that without having to go through a costly pitch process. During our chat, Shannyn shares: - the Win Without Pitching ® principles - what it takes to circumnavigate a client's pitch process - the common sales challenges faced by agencies today - her advice for agency owners who want to stand out in the market, and lots more. Please visit the Win Without Pitching ® website (https://www.winwithoutpitching.com) to find out more about everything the company does, find which workshops are coming up. and to buy Blair Enns' book, ‘The Win Without Pitching Manifesto', which is practically the industry bible. You can connect with Shannyn Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannyn-lee-2a32846/ If you're listening to this episode in April 2024 we are opening enrolments for our May Account Accelerator™ training for those in the agency who are responsible for existing client growth. If your job is to manage client relationships and grow your accounts, check out the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator

How can we manage people who are doing creative work? On the one hand, letting someone do what they want feels incredibly risky. On the other hand, creativity requires a degree of freedom, experimentation and agency. That's a particular problem in the creative fields, but it's also a broader challenge. In the 21st century, the jobs people are doing are increasingly ones that require some element of creativity. Creativity is that it doesn't always lend itself to being managed in traditional ways. Unlike setting someone a task where they slavishly need to follow instructions, creative tasks require a different form of supervision. The challenge with that is that as organisations try to mitigate the risk of creative activities, it's very easy to end up in situations where responsibility is transferred for the creative task, but the requisite amount of control to deliver it isn't. My guest is David Meikle. He's a consultant to the advertising market, where he helps companies to be more effective at hiring and managing advertising agencies. To learn more about David and his books visit https://tuningup.co.uk/ Links to topics we discuss: The podcast where Jon Evans interviews Dr Ian McGilchriest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY89D1UC9Dw Iain's website: https://channelmcgilchrist.com/ The Hamlet cigar advertisements (14:55) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJqN7RNeitw The Sainsbury's Mog The Cat advertisement (18:15): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuRn2S7iPNU The Cadbury gorilla advertisement (18:18): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La7B8mBnTXs The Ocean Spray advertisement (19:28): https://www.thedrum.com/news/2020/10/07/ocean-spray-finally-reacts-viral-skateboarding-tiktok Orlando Wood of System One Group: https://system1group.com/team/orlando-wood Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_Confidential_(book)Blair Enn's Win Without Pitching Manifesto: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/the-manifesto/

Blair and Leah are concluding their brief summer hiatus, back in the studio this week, preparing to bring you a brand new interview in two weeks time.  Until then, Blair has shamelessly selected another episode of his other podcast, 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship, which he cohosts with David C. Baker. In this episode from 2021, David interviews Blair about his Amazon #1 best-selling book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, ten years after its launch. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching Leah's Linkedin  The ICA The ICA's Linkedin David C. Baker 2Bobs The Win Without Pitching Manifesto

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training organization for creative professionals. He is the author of two books, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He is the co-host, along with David C. Baker, of the podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. Best of all, he is the guest on this week's show with Ron and Ed. A good portion of the show will be spend talking about The Innoficiency Principle. Blair laid out the thoughts behind this principle at this link and described it quite succinctly. From Blair: “The Innoficiency Principle states that innovation and efficiency are mutually opposable goals. In any reasonably functioning organization, one cannot be increased without decreasing the other.”

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training organization for creative professionals. He is the author of two books, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He is the co-host, along with David C. Baker, of the podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. Best of all, he is the guest on this week's show with Ron and Ed. A good portion of the show will be spend talking about The Innoficiency Principle. Blair laid out the thoughts behind this principle at this link and described it quite succinctly. From Blair: “The Innoficiency Principle states that innovation and efficiency are mutually opposable goals. In any reasonably functioning organization, one cannot be increased without decreasing the other.”

In this podcast episode, Jeff Echols and Co-Host Katie Kengas welcomed Blair Enns to Context & Clarity LIVE. Blair is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training and coaching organization for creative professionals, the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He co-hosts of the popular podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship with David Baker. Blair is on a mission to change the way creative services are bought and sold the world over. To watch the full conversation, visit YouTube. If you enjoy this show, you can find similar content at Gābl Media.

On this episode of The Professional Services Pursuit, we are joined by Blair Enns, esteemed author and founder of Win Without Pitching. Our host Brent Tremble joins Blair to discuss the art of winning deals without the need to pitch for a client. The conversation includes valuable insights from his book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, which has sold over 80,000 copies and garnered more than 1,500 5-star reviews on Amazon.Other topics also discussed in this episode include:Where winning without pitching is applicable to a firmAn “advantaged player” and how that influences a relationshipThe new value-based approach to agency pricingA special giveaway opportunity for those who listen through the entire episode! For more information about the podcast or to enter the giveaway, please contact podcast@kantata.com.Click here to learn more about Blair's company – Win Without PitchingClick here to learn more about Blair's marketing podcast – 20% – The Marketing Procurement PodcastClick here to learn more about Blair's entrepreneurship podcast – 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship

Blair Enns is the Founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, a sales training and coaching organization for creative professionals. He has advised hundreds of design firms, advertising agencies, and other creative authorities on how to deprogram themselves from the standard approach to win new business.  Blair is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He is also the co-host of the 2Bobs podcast and 20% - The Marketing Procurement Podcast. In this episode of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast, John Corcoran interviews Blair Enns, the Founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, about his manifesto for helping companies pitch and win better business deals. They also discuss Blair's specialization principle, tips for having conversations about money, and the secret behind the success of Blair's 2Bobs podcast.

This week, we used a puff of smoke to catch pricing magician Blair Enns performing his favourite trick; making RFPs disappear.   Founder of Win Without Pitching and Author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity, Blair is dead set on getting creative businesses to price their work properly, single-handedly saving those who sell ideas for a living from giving them away for nada.  We pulled a ton of topics out of a hat including his early years in account management and new business, pitching and RFPs, generalist vs specialist agencies, value-based pricing, why your agency should have a portfolio of pricing models, pricing creatively, how to raise your prices with current clients (and not p**s them off in the process), search consultants, hissing cockroaches and loads more.    ///// Follow Blair on Twitter and LinkedIn  Check out Blair's website  Get his books Pricing Creativity and The Win Without Pitching Manifesto Here's the 2Bobs podcast  And listen to Blair's new show 20% The Marketing Procurement Podcast  Strange Creatures: Pitches, Search Consultants, and Hissing Cockroaches by Blair Enns Consultative Selling: Beating The Odds by Tom Lewis  Thank you to everyone who has lent their ears and their brains for over 100 episodes of the Call To Action® podcast. It's a real privilege. Please do share and review the podcast to help more marketers feel better about marketing.     Timestamps (01:52) - Quick fire questions (03:58) - Account management as a gateway drug into ad land  (09:38) - Doing new business remotely in 2000 (13:45) - The real problem with pitching  (21:44) - Value based pricing  (24:22) - Does the blame lie with agencies or clients?  (27:11) - Why pricing is a prison cell in your own mind of your own making (31:53) - Pricing as a creative act  (37:25) - The importance of presenting more than one price (43:28) - Listener questions  (50:36) - 4 pertinent posers  Blair's book recommendations are:  $100M Offers by Alex Hormozi  The Boutique by Greg Alexander  The Business of Expertise by David C. Baker  /////

In this episode, Blaine covers chapter one from the book by Blair Enns called, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto. In chapter one, Enns talks about the very strong need to specialization in almost every business. Although he talks primarily to designers and creatives, Blaine found the author's directives to be fundamental to almost every business, and most definitely the appraisal and appraiser business.  Learn How to Specialize in Your Appraisal Business 

Piscari's Mike Lander models the conversations agencies and procurement should be having but rarely do. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/ Mike Lander https://piscari.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelander/ Hear more from Mike on his podcast “It's a Good Start” https://www.pantheon.fm/show/its-a-good-start-podcast/ Project Spring Report ​​https://wfanet.org/leadership/project-spring The Win Without Pitching Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/win-without-pitching-manifesto/s?k=win+without+pitching+manifesto Are RFPs The Spawn of Satan? https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/are-rfps-the-spawn-of-satan/

Anthony is not only a fantastic filmmaker and photographer. He's an even better human being. Anthony talks about his journey as a one-man band filmmaker, traveling the world to work with clients like five-time world boxing champ Teofimo Lopez and the famous strongman and actor Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson, "Thor," who you might have seen in GOT. We also talk about how Anthony engages with clients and how asking the right questions, listening, and showing empathy can help close those "dream clients."    Connect with Anthony:  Instagram: www.instagram.com/anthonykdo/  Vero: https://www.vero.co/anthonykdo  Connect with us:   amap.to/imagemakers/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_imagemakers JD's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jd.final.mp4 Chris' Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shotbychrisv  CREATIVE RESOURCES  From Anthony  "The Win Without Pitching Manifesto" by Blair Enns https://www.amazon.com/Win-Without-Pitching-Manifesto/dp/1605440043 "Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as if Your Life Depended on It" by Chris Voss https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-audiobook/dp/B01COR1GM2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1MGK02CIYPO2V&keywords=never+split+the+difference+by+chris+voss&qid=1663384237&s=books&sprefix=never+spl%2Cstripbooks%2C79&sr=1-1  "The Future"  https://thefutur.com/pro-group "The Artists Way" by Julia Cameron  https://www.amazon.com/Artists-Way-25th-Anniversary/dp/0143129252 "Giving yourself permission to feel creative" by Ethan Hawke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRS9Gek4V5Q  From JD  "Creativity Inc.: Overcoming the Unseen Forces That Stand in the Way of True Inspiration" by Ed Catmull & Amy Wallace  https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Inc-Overcoming-Unseen-Inspiration-ebook/dp/B00FUZQYBO  From Chris "Socratic Selling: How to Ask the Questions That Get the Sale" by Kevin Daley with Emmett Wolfe  https://www.amazon.com/Socratic-Selling-Questions-That-Sale/dp/0786304553/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Socratic+selling&qid=1663384982&s=books&sr=1-1  "Commercial Directing Voodoo: Filmmaking Spells & Production Potions" by Mr. Jordan Brady  https://www.amazon.com/Commercial-Directing-Voodoo-Filmmaking   "In the Blink of an Eye: A Perspective on Film Editing, 2nd Edition" by Walter Murch  https://www.amazon.com/Blink-Eye-Perspective-Film-Editing/dp/1879505622/ref=sr_1_1?crid=VXXI8U87IAPG&keywords=in+the+blink+of+an+eye&qid=1663385590&s=books&sprefix=in+the+blink+of+an+eye+%2Cstripbooks%2C70&sr=1-1

Gabriel Dabi-Schwebel is the Founder and CEO of SalesDeck, an online sales communication tool. He is also the Founder and CEO of 1min30, a French inbound marketing agency. He is an entrepreneur, speaker, and author of eight marketing and sales methodologies books. Gab hosts the Virtual Selling podcast. In this episode, Gabriel talks about service packaging as he shares how they do it in his marketing company, 1min30.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Find out how to get your product packaging and pricing right Learn good, better, best service packaging through the way a marketing company does it Understand why pricing is at the heart of entrepreneurship   “If you are in service, the idea of packaging what you sell is very important.” – Gabriel Dabi-Schwebel   Topics Covered: 01:29 – Growing up with French fonctionnaire parents while wanting to become an entrepreneur 02:19 – How Gabriel got into pricing; Gabriel realizes how important pricing is 04:36 – Talking about service packaging in line with his marketing company, 1min30 08:34 – The difference between the three price points 09:54 – Where he got the idea of his good, better, best strategy 10:36 – Did Gab learn how to have value conversations with clients? 12:06 – Gabriel's pricing advice 14:51 – Pricing table topics: “Be strategic. Focus on lifetime value.”   Key Takeaways: “I think pricing is really at the heart of entrepreneurship, because at one time, you need to price what you do, what you sell, what you create, and it's really a marketing aspect that is very interesting, because with pricing, you can make your revenue even bigger without working too much.” – Gabriel Dabi-Schwebel “It's really important to find the right price and to be sure that the price you choose is really the closest to what a customer is ready to pay and the ones that make you the more value and the more money in your pocket.” – Gabriel Dabi-Schwebel “Really thinking about lifetime value is really thinking about what is the price being acceptable by your customer and the value you bring him, and also the fact that you keep bringing value and keep in loyal to your product.” – Gabriel Dabi-Schwebel   People / Resources Mentioned: SalesDeck: https://salesdeck.io/ 1min30: https://www.1min30.com/ Acquisition Strategy Design: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/2377740324/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i2 Blair Enns' The Win Without Pitching Manifesto: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/the-manifesto/   Connect with Gabriel Dabi-Schwebel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabrields/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabriel-dabi-schwebel/   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com  

Believe it or not, neuroscientists point out that our decisions are mostly made by emotions. And that is how the power of storytelling comes in. As an investor, how do we harness the power of storytelling in your business?In this episode, Karen Eber discusses the impact of sharing stories and sparking valuable conversations. She breaks down the formula for building your story and capturing the audience's attention through authenticity. By understanding how the brain works and engaging the senses, we can optimize the manner we interact.Karen Eber is an international consultant, keynote speaker and the CEO and Chief Storyteller of Eber Leadership Group. She works with Fortune 500 companies and has inspired many through her articles published in Fast Company, CLO Magazine, and Training Industry Magazine. Karen has 20+ years of experience and has been a Head of Culture, Chief Learning Officer and Head of Leadership Development at General Electric and Deloitte. She is a four-time American Training and Development winner. Karen is publishing a book on storytelling with Harper Collins in 2023.Listen in to get practical tips for better storytelling and a simple four-part framework to apply to share your thoughts with impact.Quotes• “You can use story to shift the energy to connect with people.” (9:12 - 9:16)• “The way you get people to be open to an idea, to shift thinking, to inform influence, inspire, is through stories.” (9:48 - 9:55)• “When you tell a story that engages the senses, the brain actually lights up in the listener as though you are the person doing the activity.” (16:34 - 16:42)• “Stories often aren't the face value, but that higher level aspiration that you can connect to.” (22:21 - 22:28)• “If you are telling a story and you haven't bothered to learn anything about the audience, it is a chance to lose your audience. Because if you're telling a story that's not relevant to me, I'm going to feel like you don't understand me at all.” (27:28 - 27:41) • “Good storytellers become good storytellers because they work at it… Don't wait for the perfect story. Take your stories and make them perfect.” (35:35 - 36:09)Connect with Karen:Website: www.kareneber.com IG: @kareneber1Twitter: @kareneber1Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kareneber/ Resources mentioned: The Win Without Pitching Manifesto by Blair EnnsNo Hard Feelings by Liz Fosslien and Mollie West DuffyInvestHER CON Time: June 23-24 Place: Charlotte, NCInvestHER CON is a full circle transformational experience created with the women investors' needs, desires, and schedules in mind. The event brings top-notch experts in Real Estate Investing, Business Strategies, and Self-Care who will push the boundaries, expand the mindset, and promote deeper connections among the attendees. Learn from real teachers who will share actionable strategies so you can leave the event with the knowledge, connections, and confidence to grow your investing business and live life on your own terms.Get your ticket today: https://www.therealestateinvesther.com/investherconHow To Join the InvestHER Movement 1) The Real Estate InvestHER Podcast - The weekly show details the journey of some of the most amazing women real estate investors around the world, who open up their lives and share practical and strategic tools for growing a rental portfolio, flipping houses, and the mindset that allows them to run a successful investing business while taking care of their families and most importantly taking care of themselves. Subscribe via:Apple Itunes SpotifyAmazon MusicAndroid Stitcher 2) The Real Estate InvestHER Membership STRIVE is a one-of-a-kind membership for experienced women investors looking to make deeper connections and take their Real Estate business to the next level. 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We have created exclusive content and support for the InvestHER™ eXp Team:*Top skills and strategies to grow YOUR business*How to utilize your “real estate agent” advantage to become a real estate investor*Monthly live masterminds*Become part of Libertas Organization with top coaches, Tim and Julie Harris.Jonna Hall Weber is leading our team. If you have any questions or are ready to join our team, click here to schedule a call with her.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What's the secret to creating value, scaling, and growing your business? In this conversation with entrepreneur and author Blair Enns, we learn it's not about doing more or better, and it may be about doing less.Discover why growing your business requires more than good habits. In this episode, I'm talking with Blair Enns from Win Without Pitching. Win Without Pitching is an organization that runs sales and new business development training programs for owners and employees of design firms, ad agencies, PR practices, and other creative businesses. A lot of what he talks about is also relevant for your business. Blair is the author of the Win Without Pitching Manifesto, (a book I designed through my branding agency, Aespire) and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour (the second of Blair's books Aespire designed. I suppose you can say the agency is habit-forming).Listen to hear the life-changing lesson Blair learned when he says, "Some lessons take me so long to learn, like the idea that other people could do what I do."Find Blair Enns atWin Without Pitching http://wwp.tv/blog2Bobs Podcast: http://wwp.tv/podcastThe Win Without Pitching Manifesto

A manifesto of business practices for those who sell ideas and advice, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto lays out twelve steps--in the form of proclamations--that owners of creative businesses can take to distance themselves from their competition, regain the high ground in their client relationships and learn to win business without first parting with their thinking or writing lengthy proposals. The twelve proclamations were written to inspire owners of independent creative businesses (e.g.: design firms & advertising agencies) to rethink how their services are bought and sold. Anyone who sells ideas or advice will find relevance in their teachings.

Recently read the Win Without Pitching Manifesto (https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/the-manifesto/) by recommendation of Roxana (@notionflows on twitter!) and it spurred all the thoughts on things i could be doing better at Lunch Pail Labs. This episode is a reflection on some of that and thoughts on the book generally. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/lunchpaillabs/message

There has been much written on the subject of agency new business, but I'm not sure there has been a book which has resonated so deeply with agency founders and new business practitioners alike, as the Win Without Pitching Manifesto by Blair Enns. So as we come to the end of another extraordinary year and […]

Shannyn Lee is the director of coaching at Win Without Pitching, the business development training firm founded by Blair Enns, the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto. Listen to hear about her life growing up training horses to now as she coaches creatives to understand their worth and be meaningfully different. Contact Guest: Shannyn Lee Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannyn-lee-2a32846/ Website: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ --- Webflow Affiliate Link --- https://webflow.grsm.io/GDLPodcast Contact Host: Emily Giordano Email: emily@greatdesignlead.com Website: www.greatdesignlead.com Instagram: @greatdesignlead - https://www.instagram.com/greatdesignlead/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-giordano/ --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

In this episode, Sean chats with Chris Do from The Futur about his content strategy for generating 10+ million views per month!  ****** Watch our FREE YouTube Masterclass class here

A manifesto of business practices for those who sell ideas and advice, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto lays out twelve steps--in the form of proclamations--that owners of creative businesses can take to distance themselves from their competition, regain the high ground in their client relationships and learn to win business without first parting with their thinking or writing lengthy proposals. The twelve proclamations were written to inspire owners of independent creative businesses (e.g.: design firms & advertising agencies) to rethink how their services are bought and sold. Anyone who sells ideas or advice will find relevance in their teachings. Tune in NOW, to know more!!!

ลูกค้าไม่ใช่พระเจ้า ! ในตอนสุดท้ายของการพูดคุยและรีวิวหนังสือเล่มนี้ร่วมกับวีร์ วีรพร เราขอชวนทุกคนมาร่วมแลกเปลี่ยนความคิดเห็นกันใน 4 ประเด็นที่ Blair Enns ทิ้งท้ายไว้ในหนังสือ The Win Without Pitching Manifesto ซึ่งเป็นเรื่องเกี่ยวกับวิธีการวางแผนการคิดเงินค่าออกแบบอย่างครอบคลุม วิธีการลดราคาและเคล็ดลับที่ช่วยให้คิดราคางานออกแบบได้มากขึ้น ตลอดจนวิธีการเลือกลูกค้าที่เราจะร่วมงานด้วย พบกันในรายการ MYB Book Review EP 1 ตอนที่ 3 ดำเนินรายการโดย สยาม อัตตะริยะ Design Director จาก Pink Blue Black & Orange พร้อมกับแขกรับเชิญพิเศษคนเดิม วีร์ วีรพร ผู้ก่อตั้ง Conscious Studio และผู้ริเริ่มรายการ ดีไซน์ไป บ่นไป Mind Your Business รายการสัมภาษณ์คนทำงานในธุรกิจสร้างสรรค์ ที่จะมาแบ่งปันเรื่องราวการทำธุรกิจ ปัญหาและอุปสรรคต่างๆ เพื่อเป็นแนวทาง สร้างแรงบันดาลใจ เผยแพร่ประสบการณ์ทั้งกับคนในอุตสาหกรรมสร้างสรรค์ รวมถึงบุคคลทั่วไปที่สนใจในธุรกิจออกแบบ Created by Pink Blue Black & Orange | www.pinkblueblack.com In Association with Thai Graphic Designers Association (ThaiGa) | www.thaiga.or.th Facebook | www.facebook.com/mind.your.design.business Youtube | https://www.youtube.com/c/MindYourBusiness Instagram | www.instagram.com/mind.your.design.business Clubhouse | www.clubhouse.com/club/mindyourbusiness

เราจะไม่ทำงานฟรี! จากคราวที่แล้วที่เราแลกเปลี่ยนพูดคุยกันในหัวข้อ ต่างๆจากหนังสือ The Win Without Pitching Manifesto ไม่ว่าจะเป็นเรื่องวิธีการนำเสนอผลงาน การวาง Position ของเรา และวิธีการขั้นตอนการทำงานออกแบบ ในครั้งนี้เราขอชวนทุกคนที่สนใจ มาพูดคุยต่อในหัวข้อ วิธีการขายงาน การสร้างความชำนาญเฉพาะทางในกับตัวเองและบริษัท การเลือกลูกค้าที่เหมาะสม รวมถึงแนวคิดการไม่ทำงานฟรี เพื่อยกระดับมาตราฐานวงการการออกแบบของไทยให้ดียิ่งขึ้น พบกันในรายการ MYB Book Review EP 1 ตอนที่ 2 ดำเนินรายการโดย สยาม อัตตะริยะ Design Director จาก Pink Blue Black & Orange พร้อมกับแขกรับเชิญพิเศษคนเดิม วีร์ วีรพร ผู้ก่อตั้ง Conscious Studio และผู้ริเริ่มรายการ ดีไซน์ไป บ่นไป Mind Your Business รายการสัมภาษณ์คนทำงานในธุรกิจสร้างสรรค์ ที่จะมาแบ่งปันเรื่องราวการทำธุรกิจ ปัญหาและอุปสรรคต่างๆ เพื่อเป็นแนวทาง สร้างแรงบันดาลใจ เผยแพร่ประสบการณ์ทั้งกับคนในอุตสาหกรรมสร้างสรรค์ รวมถึงบุคคลทั่วไปที่สนใจในธุรกิจออกแบบ Created by Pink Blue Black & Orange | www.pinkblueblack.com In Association with Thai Graphic Designers Association (ThaiGa) | www.thaiga.or.th Facebook | www.facebook.com/mind.your.design.business Youtube | https://www.youtube.com/c/MindYourBusiness Instagram | www.instagram.com/mind.your.design.business Clubhouse | www.clubhouse.com/club/mindyourbusiness

พบกับรายการใหม่ของเรา Book Review กับ Ep แรก ที่เราชวนผู้ดำเนินรายการ Podcast ในตำนานที่หลายคนคิดถึง ซึ่งเว้นว่างไปกว่าสิบปี กลับมาครั้งนี้ วีร์ วีรพร ผู้ก่อตั้ง Conscious Studio และผู้ริเริ่มรายการ ดีไซน์ไป บ่นไป ให้เกียรติมาร่วมแจมกับ Mind Your Business พูดคุยกับ สยาม อัตตะริยะ Design Director จาก Pink Blue Black & Orange ผู้ดำเนินรายการ Mind Your Business โดยหยิบยกเนื้อหาจากหนังสือ The Win Without Pitching Manifesto ของ Blair Enns มาอธิบายมุมมองและความคิดที่มีประสบการณ์ตรงในการทำงาน และสังเกตพัฒนาการในการทำงานร่วมกันระหว่างนักออกแบบและลูกค้าตลอดหลายสิบปีที่ผ่านมา เนื้อหาหลายอย่างจากหนังสือเล่มนี้ ช่วยชี้ให้เราเห็นว่าเพราะอะไรสถานะของนักออกแบบไทยโดยทั่วๆ ไป จึงประสบความสำเร็จทางการเงินได้ยากเย็นเสียเหลือเกิน
 แล้วเราจะต้องแก้อย่างไร เพื่อให้หลุดพ้นจากภาวะดังกล่าว เราจึงอยากเชิญชวนทุกคน มาพบปะและพูดคุยกันในไลฟ์ที่เกี่ยวกับกรอบความคิดของเรา ที่หนังสือเล่มนี้ช่วยชี้ให้เห็นว่า นักออกแบบอย่างพวกเราเองนี่แหละที่ทำตัวเองให้อยู่ในสภาวะเช่นนี้ Mind Your Business รายการสัมภาษณ์คนทำงานในธุรกิจสร้างสรรค์ ที่จะมาแบ่งปันเรื่องราวการทำธุรกิจ ปัญหาและอุปสรรคต่างๆ เพื่อเป็นแนวทาง สร้างแรงบันดาลใจ เผยแพร่ประสบการณ์ทั้งกับคนในอุตสาหกรรมสร้างสรรค์ รวมถึงบุคคลทั่วไปที่สนใจในธุรกิจออกแบบ Created by Pink Blue Black & Orange | www.pinkblueblack.com In Association with Thai Graphic Designers Association (ThaiGa) | www.thaiga.or.th www.facebook.com/mind.your.design.business www.instagram.com/mind.your.design.business www.facebook.com/pinkblueblackorange ชมรายการทุกตอนในรูปแบบคลิปวีดิโอ และกด Subscribe และ See First ได้ที่ช่องใน YouTube ของเราทางนี้: https://www.youtube.com/c/MindYourBusiness

We're back with the second part of our interview with Dan and Dana from Gnarly Bay. Dan and Dana have been making films together since high school. Their desire to produce meaningful work has taken them around the world, and grown their team into what is now known as "Gnarly Bay". I've always admired their ability to put out meaningful work, and was excited to dive into how they've forged the path to consistently making meaningful work. Follow Gnarly Bay on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gnarlybay/ (https://www.instagram.com/gnarlybay/) You can find their work here (Watch "the Gnarly Bay Story"): http://www.gnarlybay.com/ (http://www.gnarlybay.com/) We talk a lot about their project Rambo Day: https://vimeo.com/118434141 (https://vimeo.com/118434141) SPONSORS - ASSEMBLE AND CORE GROUP Assemble is a complete project management platform for video production teams. Use code SSFC for One Month Free - https://www.assemble.tv/?ref=evanbourcier (https://www.assemble.tv/?ref=evanbourcier) Core Group: Fix your tax and book-keeping headaches, schedule a free discovery call today - https://coregroupus.com/evan_bourcier (https://coregroupus.com/evan_bourcier) Read the Win Without Pitching Manifesto: https://amzn.to/3h7FlrB (https://amzn.to/3h7FlrB) Evan Bourcier: https://instagram.com/ebourcier (https://instagram.com/ebourcier) Chris Fenner: https://instagram.com/chris.fenner (https://instagram.com/chris.fenner) Mixed by Matt Andre: https://www.instagram.com/realmattandre (https://www.instagram.com/realmattandre) Art by Crioco Design: https://www.instagram.com/criocodesign (https://www.instagram.com/criocodesign)

Dan and Dana have been making films together since high school. Their desire to produce meaningful work has taken them around the world, and grown their team into what is now known as "Gnarly Bay". I've always admired their ability to put out meaningful work, and was excited to dive into how they've forged the path to consistently making meaningful work. Follow Gnarly Bay on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gnarlybay/ (https://www.instagram.com/gnarlybay/) You can find their work here (Watch "the Gnarly Bay Story"): http://www.gnarlybay.com/ (http://www.gnarlybay.com/) We talk a lot about their project Rambo Day: https://vimeo.com/118434141 (https://vimeo.com/118434141) SPONSORS - ASSEMBLE AND CORE GROUP Assemble is a complete project management platform for video production teams. Use code SSFC for One Month Free - https://www.assemble.tv/?ref=evanbourcier (https://www.assemble.tv/?ref=evanbourcier) Core Group: Fix your tax and book-keeping headaches, schedule a free discovery call today - https://bit.ly/3gUWcgU (https://bit.ly/3gUWcgU) Read the Win Without Pitching Manifesto: https://amzn.to/3h7FlrB (https://amzn.to/3h7FlrB) Evan Bourcier: https://instagram.com/ebourcier (https://instagram.com/ebourcier) Chris Fenner: https://instagram.com/chris.fenner (https://instagram.com/chris.fenner) Mixed by Matt Andre: https://www.instagram.com/realmattandre (https://www.instagram.com/realmattandre) Art by Crioco Design: https://www.instagram.com/criocodesign (https://www.instagram.com/criocodesign)

David asks Blair some awkward questions to get inside his head about his successful book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto.

On this episode of The Leadership Locker, Rich talks about Kindra Hall's storytelling formula, and tells some personal stories from his career using this formula. https://richcardonamedia.com/personal-branding/ (Personal Branding | Rich Cardona Media) ----- https://player.captivate.fm/episode/dd6603ad-7a8b-47c7-b145-ae871c22b0b8 (The Leadership Locker | Episode 44 | How to use Storytelling in Business with Kindra Hall) https://andyfrisella.com/pages/75hard-info (75 Hard) https://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Art-Not-Giving-Counterintuitive/dp/0062457713 (The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck) by Mark Manson https://www.amazon.com/Win-Without-Pitching-Manifesto/dp/1605440043/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=win+without+pitching&qid=1623419861&s=books&sr=1-2 (The Win Without Pitching Manifesto) by Blair Enns https://www.amazon.com/Socratic-Selling-Questions-That-Sale/dp/0786304553/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=socratic+selling&qid=1623419925&s=books&sr=1-1 (Socratic Selling: How to Ask the Questions That Get the Sale) by Kevin Daley https://www.amazon.com/Law-Attraction-Science-Attracting-More/dp/0446199737/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=laws+of+attraction&qid=1623420045&s=books&sr=1-4 (Law of Attraction: The Science of Attracting More of What You Want and Less of What) https://www.amazon.com/Law-Attraction-Science-Attracting-More/dp/0446199737/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=laws+of+attraction&qid=1623420045&s=books&sr=1-4 (You Don't) by Michael J. Losier https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Unforgiving-Race-Greatness-Grover/dp/1982168862/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=winning&qid=1623420137&s=books&sr=1-2 (Winning: The Unforgiving Race to Greatness) by Tim Grover https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079DWSYYB/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i1 (The Infinite Game) by Simon Sinek https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Drive-Principles-God-Given-Potential/dp/1634894251/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=sacred+drive&qid=1623420240&sr=8-1 (Sacred Drive: Biblical Principles for Pursuing Your God-Given Potential) by Vaughn Kohler ----- Connect with Rich: http://www.richcardonamedia.com/ (Website) https://www.linkedin.com/in/richcardona/ (LinkedIn) https://www.instagram.com/richcardona_/ (Instagram) https://www.facebook.com/richcardonamedia/ (Facebook) https://www.youtube.com/c/RichCardona (YouTube)

Every time I bring up sales, I know I lose a few listeners. This is another one of those topics that I know many architects would rather not hear about because you're not comfortable with "selling," but it's one that you need to embrace. “The Win Without Pitching Manifesto" by Blair Enns is one of my favorite books when it comes to business development and sales for architects. In fact, if I'm playing a management consulting role with a client, I actually require that everyone on their leadership team read it before we begin work. It will challenge you, but I think the book will reveal some very healthy mindset shifts that can transform the way you do business.

Hosted by multiple iTunes Top 10 podcaster James Burtt, Building The Brand is in-depth conversations with the entrepreneurs, founders, marketing and brand experts, PR specialists, CEO’s and CMO’s who have built some of the countries most successful companies and brands. This week on Building The Brand we are showcasing some of our recent client podcast launches, so every single day we are going to be playing you a full episode of one of the awesome shows we have helped our clients to launch.  James is the MD of Ultimate Podcast Group which is one of Europe’s leading podcast launch agency’s having launched 132+ successful shows with 90% of clients ending up being iTunes Top rated shows, so this week we are bragging about how good our clients are basically! On today’s show we are highlighting Word On The Street which is an amazing marketing industry podcast hosted by legend of the sector Katie Street. The podcast brings together some of the biggest thought-leaders and trendsetters in the world of marketing and the conversations are deep-dives into the strategic ways to scale agency businesses, adopt best practises and insights into the top echelons of the industry.  In this episode we are bringing you an episode where Katie hosted Blair Enns - CEO of Win Without Pitching - is the world renowned author of ‘The Win Without Pitching Manifesto’ and ‘Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour’. As one of the industry’s leading thought-leaders on agency sales Blair has taken his contrarian views on how selling works and turned that into a methodology that can lead to agencies focusing on taking back the power within a pitch and, ultimately, helps teams to secure more profitable client relationships.     If you love the content you hear on today’s Client Showcase week podcast make sure you head over to their show, hit the subscribe button and tune in regularly for more audio gold.  Check out Word On The Street now 

Loneliness carries the same health risk as smoking 15 cigarettes a day, according to a research study by social-connectedness expert Julianne Holt-Lunstad, PhD. It's a disturbing finding that's hard to accept. But for Ryan Gill, it only drives him in his mission to eradicate loneliness. In this episode, Matt Halloran joins Ryan Gill, CEO and co-founder of Communo, co-founder of Cult, and co-founder and chairman at The Gathering. Ryan shares why he has a deep passion for eradicating loneliness and how Communo is part of the solution. He also breaks down the core characteristics of a great leader –– and why he believes that if we build leaders, companies will take care of themselves. You will learn: How Ryan started The Gathering: a summit where leaders from the biggest cult brands share their expertise How Communo is helping professionals combat loneliness Why building great leaders is the key to ensuring your brand's continuity The difference between leading with passion versus position And more! Press play to get inspired by Ryan Gill's vision to eradicate loneliness and lead with courage. Resources:  ProudMouth | Matt Halloran on LinkedIn | Kirk Lowe on LinkedIn | Influence Accelerator Academy | Ryan Gill on LinkedIn | Ryan Gill Shares | Ryan Gill on Instagram | Communo | The Gathering Summit | Cult Collective | Chris Kneeland on LinkedIn | Rob Howard on LinkedIn | Charles Blackwell on LinkedIn | "Leadershift: The 11 Essential Changes Every Leader Must Embrace" by John Maxwell | "The Win Without Pitching Manifesto" by Blair Enns | "The Business of Expertise: How Entrepreneurial Experts Convert Insight to Impact + Wealth" by David Baker | Dare to Lead Hub | Ted Lasso

How Agencies Can Win Without Pitching, with Blair Enns The agency world is seen as very fast-paced, very creative, very innovative and very forward-thinking but, as you will hear in this deep-dive conversation between Katie Street and Blair Enns, the same can't be said for how marketers sell their services. The infamous world of intricate, costly and time-sapping pitching for business has long been the way that the industry ‘sells' itself, but have you ever stopped to think why? More importantly, when was the last time you stepped back to assess that there could be a better way to create sales for your business. Blair Enns - CEO of Win Without Pitching - is the world renowned author of ‘The Win Without Pitching Manifesto' and ‘Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour'. As one of the industry's leading thought-leaders on agency sales Blair has taken his contrarian views on how selling works and turned that into a methodology that can lead to agencies focusing on taking back the power within a pitch and, ultimately, helps teams to secure more profitable client relationships.     This episode covers:   Why environment is so important to be able to do what you doAsking for concessions in the sale How to leverage agency sales rules in your favour How essential it is to be seen as ‘meaningfully different' Why 10% price increases don't always add to increased profits Why standardising and systeming prices across agencies is a mistake Understanding that productised and customised agency business models need to grow apart  Word on the Street is sponsored by Kulea.ma, the default Business Development and Marketing Automation platform for agencies and their clients. To learn more about Kulea's Business development and marketing services and technology, visit www.kulea.maLinks & referencesKatie Street: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiestreet/Blair Ennis https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/Grab a copy of Blair's brilliant book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blair-Enns/e/B003XCI2BG/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_ebooks_1Get in touch: hello@street.agencyI couldn't do what I do, with the point of view that I have if i lived in New York or London - Blair Enns [12:10]Clients need to be ‘educated' in how to engage with agencies to get the best out of them, because I don't think the pitch environment necessarily showcases the truth of an agency - Katie Street [21:10]Business development is just code for selling, let's call it what it is - Blair Enns [23:10]Highly creative people love to pitch - Blair Enns [24:10] You reclaim the power in the agency relationship through the positioning of your firm - Blair Enns [31:15]If you're the hot ‘shop' of the day, you have power in that moment but you have to understand that power is not going to last - Blair Enns [31:50]They're taking too many of their cues for how to run their businesses, including pricing, from productised service businesses - Blair Enns [52:45]

If you’ve followed us for a while, then you’ve probably heard the name Blair Enns a few times. Blair is a business consultant, speaker and author of the acclaimed book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto. And if you were to ask Chris Do what one book you should read is, it would be that one. We’ve had Blair on the show before, but we wanted to share this deep dive livestream with you because it’s filled with invaluable information. The insights that Blair shares and the perspective he offers is unmatched. You can actually hear Chris’s giddiness during their conversation. They cover a lot of ground in this talk. Discussing things like specializing vs generalizing, how to measure the value you bring to the table, pricing the client not the job and, of course, value based pricing. But the best part is that these are universal business concepts. You’ll find them everywhere outside of the creative industry, but Blair does a fantastic job of contextualizing them for people like us—the creative professional. We suggest listening to the episode once, all the way through. Then on another day, listen to it again. But this time, take notes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Flavilla is joined by the incredible Blair Enns to discuss what tech companies can learn from his wealth of knowledge.Blair is the CEO of Win Without Pitching, a business development training firm. He is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. Blair is hugely successful at what he does, so you should definitely give his episode a listen to see what your can learn from him!To connect with Blair, CLICK HERETo check out their website, CLICK HEREJoin Tech Brains Talk mailing list for more perks, CLICK HERETo find out more about 3 Colours Rule Agency, CLICK HERE

https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/minddogtvSponsors:https://mybookie.com Promo Code minddoghttps://record.webpartners.co/_6_DFqqtZcLQWqcfzuvZcQGNd7ZgqdRLk/1https://apply.fundwise.com/minddoghttps://myvitalc.com/minddog. promo code minddogtvhttps://skillbuilder.academy/dashboard?view_sequence=1601856764231x540742189759856640&promoCode=MINDDOG100OFFhttps://shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=599839&u=1659788&m=52971&urllink=&afftrack= https://enticeme.com/#minddog

Shannyn Lee, Director of Coaching at the business development training program for leaders of creative firms worldwide, Win Without Pitching joins us for episode 3. The program brings a new depth to client engagement and the ability to shift the sales conversation to a values conversation based on expertise. Check out the Win Without Pitching Website: www.winwithoutpitching.com Take a look at the Win Without Pitching Manifesto: bit.ly/wwpmanifesto 2Bobs Podcast: 2bobs.com/podcast

On Episode 152, Blair Enns is in to talk about his book “The Win Without Pitching Manifesto.” Blair’s idea challenges agencies to buck the conventional wisdom that puts the client in the driver’s seat—a scenario that makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to lead in the engagement. He lives in the wilds of rural British Columbia, so we get a taste of that lifestyle as well—and the unique point of view on business he has from his outpost. Plus, we discuss getting by when the power goes out. Blair is a fascinating guy and it was a fun discussion.Links of InterestBlair Enns on LinkedInWin Without PitchingBlair’s BooksKaslo, BC

How do you direct your clients to the product you really want to sell? How do you show the value of your services? Can you really get volume with a loss leader? These are all questions we ask ourselves. This week, Jason and Bridget are joined by marketing expert Nathan Allotey. We will discuss the psychology surrounding pricing. This is an episode you’ll want to bookmark and rewatch!WPblab SponsorsServerPressThank you for being a preroll sponsor, ServerPress! ServerPress is the maker of DesktopServer, WPSiteSync, and so much more!Beaver BuilderThe best drag and drop page builder. $99 for unlimited sites. Try today. Used by Over 1M Sites. Professional Designs. 100% Responsive Templates. Theme Compatible. Highly Customizable. Content Page Templates. Live, Front End Editing. Web Developer Friendly.KinstaIf you are you tired of unreliable or slow hosting check out Kinsta.com, who takes managed WordPress hosting to the next level. Powered by Google Cloud, all their plans include PHP 7.3, SSH access for developers, one-click staging area, 20 global data centers, free SSL, free CDN and 24×7 expert support who will also migrate your site free of charge.You Can Sponsor WPblab, Too.If you’re interested in sponsoring our shows, check out the details on our sponsor page. We offer episode by episode spoken ads, rather than large contracts. This way you have a low barrier to entry so we can help you with brand awareness. We’re democratizing podcasting.A Little Bit About Nathan AlloteyNathan has been working with digital clients for ten years, has a graduate degree, and teaches people through his podcast and blog at nathanallotey.com. His podcast “Freelance Jumpstart,” can be heard anywhere you hear podcasts. If this episode makes you want to know more about pricing your services, check out more of his videos in this playlist on his site.You Can’t Avoid FailureReading books and listening to podcasts is good. Most people educate themselves to avoid failure. Rather, learn from failure. One thing developers understand is iteration. Test the market. Raise your prices.“They do all these things ’cause they’re trying to avoid failure.” Nathan Allotey“You will fail; learn from that failure and adapt.” Nathan AlloteyKnow Your CostNathan believes that you should be making 30% profit. In order to do that, establish your base. Figure out your overhead costs that also include hosting and any plugin licenses or SaaS fees.Remember that hourly pricing should be internal.Know Your WorthYour pricing should reflect the years of education and hours of training that you’ve spent getting to the level of expertise you’re at.“Definitely know your worth.” Nathan AlloteyKnowing — deeply understanding — your worth causes you to instinctually protect your time. This affects the scope of work and how a client treats you.Don’t be afraid to stick to two revision cycles, for example. People get what they pay for. If a potential client says another agency will build the website for $5,000 less, then let them. Otherwise, that is being used as leverage to bully you. It’s manipulation.Know Your ClientsClients like to feel empowered. Instead of presenting one proposal that ends in a yes/no answer, present options.Price anchoring allows the customer to choose an option rather than say no. This educates them and empowers them to understand your value.“Instead of agonizing over the decision, why not present options to the client and let them choose?” Nathan AlloteyPresenting options gives your clients to understand a range of what they should pay. They have a choice.How Much Should A Website Cost?What value is the website going to bring to your customer? You may want to ask the client that question and use value-based pricing instead.“How much are my websites worth rather than what a website costs.” Nathan AlloteyWhat should I charge?Do some research. Scope out a project and ask agencies for a bid.“Pricing is not a decision; it’s a strategy.” Nathan AlloteyAnchoring Establishes ValueIf you do choose to use a loss leader in your anchoring it is important to think long term, Nathan advises.“Tend to think long term, rather than short term when it comes to loss leaders.” Nathan AlloteyWhat’s Really Valuable?The most valuable thing in your business is you. Allow that value to permeate through and influence your actions, attitudes, and perceptions.“Remember that you are valuable.” Nathan AlloteyTool or Tip of the WeekThis Tool or Tip of the week is brought to you by Fat Dog Creatives. If you’re a service-based business serious about growth, Rhonda Negard is your rebranding and web design thinker, a strategic design specialist. Check out her website at FatDogCreatives.comNathan recommends a book called “The Win Without Pitching Manifesto.” It’s helpful for those who are shy about sales pitches to get more comfortable with your service offerings and value.Jason recommends Momentum, a browser extension that helps you be your most productive self. Plus, it’s beautiful. Bridget added it to her Chrome right after the show.Bridget recommends Voice Memos. If you’re using a tool like Headliner and want to post audio to your Instagram, for example, you need a .wav or .mp3. This tool is free and just works. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Blair Enns is CEO of Win Without Pitching and the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. Blair joins […] The post 045 Pitching and Pricing Smart – Agency Advisor Blair Enns appeared first on The Creative Agency Podcast.

Book Club - The Win Without Pitching Manifesto PART 2

Book Club: The Win Without Pitching Manifesto PART 1

Why you have to check out Today’s podcast:  Learn the rules and tactics to charge more for new work and run a more profitable business  Know the pricing training his company offers to creative companies and how it benefits them  Discover and learn the four conversations in a sale and how to successfully apply it to boost your sales conversation and presentation    Blair Enns is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He co-hosts, along with David C. Baker, and the podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. Based on the remote mountain village of Kaslo, British Columbia, Canada, Blair lectures throughout the world on how creative professionals can win more business at higher prices and lower cost of sale.  In this episode, Blair shares the ups and downs of the business side of creativity. He takes us into the pages of his books sharing the principles behind pricing creativity, sales conversation and winning without pitching. He also deep dives into the rules and tactics to help creative professionals charge more for work and how to train their clients to a value-based pricing rather than hourly billable hours.    “I cannot think of a more valuable skill in all of business than the ability to conduct a value conversation which is to essentially  find out what the client or the customer wants, and what they would  be  willing to pay if you could help create that  value ”  – Blair Enns  Topics Covered:  02:31 – How Blair got into pricing  02:59 – What his company does and the type of professionals they serve   05:33 – Citing examples of creative companies  06:42 – Talking about the training on pricing his company also offers   07:38 – Blair explains putting a stake in the ground which is detailed in his book - The Win Without Pitching Manifesto  10:09 – Two most essential lessons for creative firms  12:52 – How they train their clients to a value-based pricing  15:00 – The four-step framework and four-step pricing guidance discussed in his book Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour  19:05 – The four conversations in the sale  26:37 – Mark asks for feedback on the ways they apply value conversations in product companies  29:35 – Advice for product managers  32:05 – Blair explains why and how he priced his book that much  34:56 – A piece of pricing advice that would impact the business of the listeners    Key Takeaways:    “You need to put a stake in the ground. And the mistake that people make is that stake or that claim of expertise is too broad in terms of both the discipline on the market. It should be narrow enough in a way that allows you to be compelling and meaningfully different.” – Blair Enns    “A customized service means you have a small number of clients at any one time.” – Blair Enns    “If you can help this client create the value that you've uncovered, then your idea of fair compensation for yourself really needs to transcend the idea of your inputs or how long it's taken you to do to help create that value.” – Blair Enns    “The goal of value-based pricing is to create an organization filled with people like that who are laser-focused on the client and how they can help create value for the client.” – Blair Enns    “Options with a high anchor. If you just always put forward options, three options and lead with the most expensive one. Your average settled price will go up, I promise you.” – Blair Enns      Resources Mentioned:  Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour  The Win Without Pitching Manifesto    Connect with Blair Enns:  winwithoutpitching.com  LinkedIn  Twitter    Connect with Mark Stiving  Email: mark@impactpricing.com  LinkedIn  Twitter   

Download Episode: http://hectorgarcia.com/wp-content/PODCAST/AltaccountantPodcast6.mp3

Download Episode: http://hectorgarcia.com/wp-content/PODCAST/AltaccountantPodcast6.mp3

Download Episode: http://hectorgarcia.com/wp-content/PODCAST/AltaccountantPodcast6.mp3

Blair Enns is founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, the sales training organization for creative professionals, and the author of two books: The Win Without Pitching Manifesto (published in 2010) and Pricing Creativity: A guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour

Today’s guest is Blair Enns. Blair is the founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, a sales training organization for creative professionals. Blair is also the author of two books, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity.

How do you charge your clients more with confidence? I know many creatives like us have trouble asking for more money because they’re afraid that it will somehow pollute their craft or drive away customers. Don’t fall into this trap! I’m really excited to have a guest today, Blair Enns, who knows all about offering great value to your clients and successfully charging more without feeling bad about it. Blair possesses a truly amazing mind and an amazing gift to be able to help people like you and me. If you’ve heard of him, it’s likely because of his book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto. Honestly, this book has changed the way I engage with my clients. In addition to his books, Blair runs a training program where he and his team of coaches help other entrepreneurs win more business. This episode is all about what Blair says is the number one thing you need to do to make more money. We chat about two differentiators which will allow you to charge more from your clients, how price anchoring will help build your confidence and increase revenue, and helpful ways to push back against a client. Blair also shares how to get over the limiting belief that charging more will turn you into a greedy person. We go on to talk about the importance of specializing so that you can stand out from the competition and show your clients the value that you will provide them. Is something stopping you from raising your rates? Have you gone ahead and done it and seen results? Tell me all about it in the comments on the episode page!   In this episode: Why you should double what you’re charging your clients (but probably won’t) The role that self-esteem plays in your ability to close more high payoff sales Pushing back against a client’s objections in a way that is helpful and builds confidence Understanding that there are no moral problems with making more money How creating extraordinary value for your clients will ultimately lead to other kinds of success How to help people to want to work with you instead of trying to simply convince them that you’re good enough Why every client should have a different value-based pricing plan   Quotes: “You can [charge multiples of what you’ve been charging] but you have to think about what it is that you do and what it is that the client is buying differently. And then you have to frame it differently. And when you do it right you won’t be pulling a fast one on the client, you’ll actually be creating more value for the client and you’ll have them willingly pay you more because you’re now thinking about the engagement differently.” [13:33] “If you’re struggling with confidence, you need to work on options. -- wherever possible, increase your options.” [17:07] “‘No’ isn't the end if you don’t want it to be the end; it’s just the beginning of whatever happens next.” [20:17] “We need to get over this idea that money is somehow sullied and that we should only ever want so much. You are allowed to want whatever you want for whatever reasons you want.” [28:48] “It’s not just a matter of raising your rates, you have to change the way you price. You have to change the way you think about pricing.” [43:00]   Links: Find Blair Enns online Follow Blair on Twitter | Linkedin | Instagram | Facebook   2Bobs Podcast with David C. Baker and Blair Enns The Win Without Pitching Manifesto by Blair Enns A Target Audience of One by Blair Enns Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour by Blair Enns Obliquity: Why Our Goals Are Best Achieved Indirectly by John Kay   Additional Links: Check out the full show notes page Be sure to take the Studio Sherpas survey for a chance to win some incredible prizes (if we do say so ourselves!) Stay up to date with everything we're doing at Studio Sherpas Tune into our weekly Facebook Lives Follow Studio Sherpas on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram   If you haven't already, we'd love it if you would take 1 minute to leave us a review on iTunes!

Do you sell ideas or advice and feel frustrated with having to part with your thinking for free, whilst spending lots of time and money writing lengthy proposals? My guest Blair Enns is on a mission to change the way creative services are bought and sold the world over. He is the founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, the sales training and coaching organization for creative professionals and author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto. During this conversation we will discover why his book caused such a revolution within the design and advertising industry and why and how you need to rethink the way your services are bought and sold.

Do you sell ideas or advice and feel frustrated with having to part with your thinking for free, whilst spending lots of time and money writing lengthy proposals? My guest Blair Enns is on a mission to change the way creative services are bought and sold the world over. He is the founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, the sales training and coaching organization for creative professionals and author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto. During this conversation we will discover why his book caused such a revolution within the design and advertising industry and why and how you need to rethink the way your services are bought and sold.

Blair describes to David how he was able to distill his Win Without Pitching approach into a simple formula: P=db/D Power = desirability / Desire   Links Economics in One Lesson: The Shortest and Surest Way to Understand Basic Economics by Henry Hazlitt Economics in One Lesson Wikipedia page Henry Hazlitt Wikipedia page The Win Without Pitching Manifesto by Blair Enns   Transcript DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, We are going to talk about selling in one lesson. BLAIR ENNS: I know why you're laughing. DAVID: I'm laughing because you're constantly pretending that people need to hear all kinds of lessons, but if really is selling is just in one lesson, then doesn't that sort of undermine, anyway, let's just go on. I'm sorry, I'm just trying too hard here. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: So selling in one lesson. But what's interesting about this is that you have a formula, and I think we probably need to put this formula in the show notes, right? Because just being able to picture this as a, so tell us the formula and then where this came from because I find it really fascinating. BLAIR: Yeah, it's a formula. It's not really made for the audio medium but what the hell. So selling in one lesson, well let me back up a little bit. So I've been doing the Win Without Pitching thing since about 2002. And since then, people have said to me, you know, like in as few words as possible, explain how you win without pitching. So it took me a long time to get it down to two steps. And so here's how you win without pitching in two steps. BLAIR: Step one, you change the power structure in the buy sell relationship, and you do that through positioning and we could talk more about that, but we'll get into that in a bit. But that's step one. You change the power dynamics or the power structure in the relationship through the positioning of the firm. By vastly reducing the number of direct competitors you have, you change the power dynamics towards you because the client's power, their power in the sale, their power to push you around, dictate price, etc, comes from the availability of substitutes. So by narrowing your focus, building deep expertise, you become this expert firm and you change the power dynamics. So that's step one, change the power dynamics in the relationship primarily through positioning. BLAIR: And then step two is to leverage that new found power that you have to change the way your services are bought and sold. And it takes a really long time to unpack that second step because it encompasses many, many things. So, for a long time I was pretty happy with my Win Without Pitching in two step description. And then about five or six years ago, I read Henry Hazlitt's book Economics in One Lesson. And this is a book that I think it was published in 1947 and sold well over a million copies, and I'd never heard of it. And somebody mentioned it and I picked it up and I thought, well, this is something else. If somebody can really pull off the promise in the title by delivering the entire kind of school of economics, I won't call it a science because I like many others don't believe it's a science, but the entire school of economics in just one lesson that will be impressive. And he did it, like to Hazlitt's credit, he was able to distill the entire field of economics down in one lesson. DAVID: And economics is not a simple field either. So pretty complex. So you took this as a challenge. Two is not enough. BLAIR: I thought, well, he can do it in one lesson, I can do, what does it mean to win without pitching or to sell creativity or to sell expertise of any kind. I'll just broaden out to selling in one lesson. And let me read you Hazlitt's lesson because early in his book he delivers the lesson and then he goes through all of these examples of how poor economic decision making or poor economic policy arises from violation of the lesson. Here's the lesson. "The art of economics consistent looking not merely at the immediate but at the longer effects of any act or policy. It consists in tracing the consequences of that policy, not merely for one group, but for all groups." BLAIR: So, what he says essentially is that any mistake in economic policy arises from the violation of one or two things. The first thing is you didn't consider all groups who would be affected by this. You only considered one group. And the second thing is, you didn't consider the long term, you only considered the short term. It's not the only book you would read in the field of economics, but it's a book that you could read and then you could measure any other economic theory or recommendation against the lesson in that book. I think that's why it's such a powerful accomplishment that Hazlitt pulled off. And I was thinking, well, is there the equivalent in selling? And I don't know if I've arrived at it, but I have a lesson that I can distill into even fewer words than Hazlitt. I can get it down to a formula. DAVID: Yeah, and I'm picturing you in this white lab coat in this big theater at Harvard, and you're writing on the whiteboard and all the students are nodding off. What happened to our regular professor? Where'd this guy come from? BLAIR: What's Matt Damon the janitor doing here? DAVID: Okay, so read the formula, and if we have anybody still listening, you need to picture this, and you might want to go to the show notes as well if you can just to see it. So, read the formula. BLAIR: Our last podcast was so good. DAVID: It was. Oh, how the mighty have fallen. BLAIR: I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it because it's on the back of the coffee cup that I'm holding up. Here's the formula, selling in one lesson. P=db/D. DAVID: So it's capital P. BLAIR: Capital P, equals lowercase db over D, capital D. DAVID: Okay. So let's break this apart. What does the P stand for? BLAIR: P stands for power. It's short form for power equals desirability over a desire. So your power in the sale is a function of having your desirability be greater than your own desire. Makes sense, right? DAVID: Yeah. So somebody needs to want you more than you want them in simple terms. BLAIR: Yeah. Drop the mic, podcast over. DAVID: Right. But now we're going to drag this out for another 20 minutes so people feel like they got their money's worth. BLAIR: Go ahead and get a coffee folks. DAVID: I mean it makes perfect sense. As I think about this too, and I'm also wanting to draw this parallel with something that you mentioned in passing, talking about Hazlitt's theory and thinking about, sort of you didn't use this phrase but unintended consequences. I was just thinking about how many times principals make short term decisions thinking that there will not be unintended consequences. DAVID: So for instance, you need a lot of work at some point and so you make all kinds of compromises not realizing that you're really throwing away the long term viability of this particular client, but the good news is that you get all kinds of opportunities to do this. And what you're talking about is taking the longterm view. But more than that, it's about the whole, maybe not, I guess power structure, is there another word besides power if somebody isn't drawn to that, maybe opportunity or choice or control, something like that? BLAIR: You've kind of put me onto this a few years ago. I think you very subtly pointed out that I use the P word a lot, power. And you've suggested that, well, there are other ways to think about power, distributed control, the ability to lead. But let me unpack the formula a little bit. DAVID: Sure. BLAIR: Your power in the sale is a function of your desirability being greater than your desire. And so power is the power to do certain things, not just when the business, I'll unpack that more fully in a minute. But it's essentially your power to win the business and other things. I talked a little bit before about who has the power. Typically the client has the power and that's a function of the availability of substitutes. But in this formula, we're just thinking about it differently. Your desirability, how badly the client needs or wants you or the engagement with you when it's higher than your own desire for the client, for the engagement with the client. When your desirability is higher than your own desire, then you have the power in the buy sell relationship. So that's in simple terms, he who wants it least has the most power in the relationship. BLAIR: And if you look at most of the problems that agencies find themselves in under the banner of new business development, most of the things that go wrong, most of the costs that get incurred, it's a function of the client didn't want it as bad as you wanted it. DAVID: You've actually talked about this inside of a micro-example way when you talked about using silence in conversations to see how long you can wait before somebody else says something, before the prospect says something. Sort of like a micro-example of how all of this happens. Are you talking about real desire? If you feel like you need to land some business, are you talking about eliminating that or actually pretending that you don't need it? BLAIR: That's a very good question. Yes. DAVID: Okay. You didn't set me up with that. On my own, I came up with that question. Let the audience know for sure. BLAIR: You read that just as I wrote it. DAVID: Yeah. Right. BLAIR: So, you could extrapolate that formula to mean that, okay, therefore, we must seek to maximize our desirability and minimize our desire. Now, if you did that, what would happen? If we sought to minimize our own desire, A, we would lose the motivation to go get the business to begin with, B, we would communicate to the client that we're arrogant, aloof or uninterested. So, I'm not suggesting that we take that formula to the maximum and seek to minimize our desire. We do want to maximize our desirability. And I'll come back and talk about how we do both of those things. Maximize our desirability and not minimize our desire, but just make sure that the expression of our desire, and that's the answer to your question I think is lower than what we discern our desirability to mean. BLAIR: Are we just convoluting things? Let's unpack power then we'll go through desirability and desire. DAVID: All right. BLAIR: So P=db/D. Your power in the sale is a function of your desirability being greater than your desire. And when I talk about P or power, I'm talking about the power not just to win the business, but to win the business with key variables in place. Number one, the right type of business. You and I have worked with so many firms who are pretty good at closing new business and then you look at the business that they want and you think what is this? What is this dog's breakfast stuff? Things that you've done for all kinds of different organizations. When a firm has a positioning challenge and they look at everything they do now and everybody they do it for it, they think, well, I don't know where to begin. And you don't know where to begin, first of all, you shouldn't necessarily look at your current or your past client base. But when you do look at your current client base, all you're seeing is the history of everybody you've ever said yes to. That's all you're seeing, right? BLAIR: So you really need to start being more discerning about the types of organizations you work with. So first of all, it's the power to win the right types of business. And the right type of business might mean at a certain fee level or budget level or even profit level. So that's the second variable of power, not just the right type of business, but at high margin. We all agree that high profit margins are better than low profit margins, right? DAVID: Yeah. Unless you're in the southern hemisphere and then it's flipped. But yes. BLAIR: Shout out to all our Australian friends. So the power to win the right type of business at high margin. The third variable is at low cost of sale. Now, just like you and I and everybody listening will agree that higher profit margin is better than low, we all agree that lower cost is better than high cost. But it's not just for the obvious reasons that we want to keep our costs low. The reason you want the power to win the business at low cost of sale is the cost of sale that you incur to close the business is an indication of how much power you actually have in the sale. Therefore, how likely you are to win. So, if you're going through the sale and even in the early days of the sale, the client is forcing you to incur all of these costs like travel to see them or do some sort of research or other things, that's an indication that you're not likely to win the business because you're not seen as meaningfully different. BLAIR: So, we want to be in the power to win the right types of business at high margin, at low cost of sale, and the last variable under the subject of power is well positioned to have the greatest impact. And what I mean by positioned to have the greatest impact is with you positioned as the expert practitioner in the sale and you have enough power that the client is letting you lead. I think everybody would agree that for you to do your best work for your clients, you need the client to allow you to lead the engagement. One of the phrases that I probably say most often over the last few years is this, the sale is the sample. If you are not allowed to lead in the sale, then you are not likely to be allowed to lead in the engagement. BLAIR: That's one of the reasons why I like measuring how much power you have in the sale is so vitally important because if you're not able to amass some of that power and I sound like a dictator, but if you're not able to get some sort of indication from the client that they see you as the meaningful expert and they're allowing you some sense of control, they're allowing you a leadership position in the relationship, then you're not likely to win the business. And if you do win the business, you will not be positioned to have your greatest impact because for you to do the best work, you need to be able to lead. If you're not leading in the sale, they're not going to let you switch hats. You can't be a good soldier in the sale responding to RFPs, saying yes, leaning on service and enthusiasm. That's what I consider to be a good soldier. Somebody who follows orders well. And then once you win the business, take your soldier hat off and put on your general hat and then start to take control of the relationship. BLAIR: The dynamics of the relationship are established in the sale. So, you need the power to win the right types of business at high margin and high margin is important because profit margin just goes down over time. So it's important to have high margin at the beginning. Low cost of sale, low cost of sale is important because it's an indicator of how likely you are to win the business, and with you positioned to have the greatest impact. By that I mean with you in the expert practitioner seat rather than the vendor seat, where the client is saying, okay, you're hired, what do we do now, let's do it your way. Rather than you're hired, here's how this is going to work, Mr vendor. DAVID: Yeah. In a minute, I want to ask you to talk me through how we kind of keep our expression of D low and still be true to ourselves and not abuse the prospect/client and so on. But, I just have to kind of interrupt a little bit and just talk about how close this revolves around my entire life's work because it just resonates so well with what I want to do for this field. What I try to do is to help people make better business decisions. You do the same thing in a slightly different area and we overlap some. DAVID: But what motivates me to do that and to pour my life into this is this deeply held belief I have that financial panic is the, I guess that's the right way to say it, financial panic is the father of just crippling compromises that you make. So if you have these things in the back of your mind as the principal, you're going to make so many bad decisions. You're going to let somebody go that just is an ass on staff. You are going to price things too low because you're afraid of not keeping somebody busy. DAVID: So, running your business well equates to not having to close every piece of business so that you can act like an expert and not a vendor and not be so desperate so that you're just seeping with this panic all the time. And I know it sounds weird to get kind of emotional about this, but this is, this is what I do for a living for this very specific reason. I just believe so much that if you run your business well, then you can maximize this formula which I didn't know the formula until you started talking about it, but it just resonates so well. DAVID: If you have a certain amount of cash on hand, if you have a lead generation plan that's running, that's spun up and it's built on a very strong positioning which you alluded to a minute ago. If you don't have some huge client that you're beholden to, all of those things set you up so that you can make more considered careful, thoughtful, expert like decisions. This is just a fantastic topic to me. BLAIR: Nicely summarized. I think if you or I could wave our magic wands and just kind of impose a wonderful new state on our clients' businesses, it would be that description of power that I talked about, the power to win the right types of business at high margin, net low cost of sale, well positioned, to have the greatest impact. And then, earlier you were referencing Hazlitt's idea of the long term versus the short term and you're just talking about how so often we just get caught making these short term decisions and don't appreciate the long term consequences. BLAIR: I was going to say, when you were talking about that, I was thinking, well, I think most people understand largely with the long term implications are, but I think they're somewhat in denial. I think they kind of lie to themselves about it, and it's probably because of that financial panic. Like there's a saying, there's long term pain or short term pain, like which one do you want? And if you can live with the short term pain, the long term pain goes away. If you can't live with short term pain, you're never going to make the correct decisions in the long run.   DAVID: Week after week, I work with a new firm and I say to myself, without any sense of arrogance or smirking or anything, I just say sometimes, just to myself sometimes to them, you could have higher expectations for your business life. You have settled into something here and you could see it differently. You could have a different vision for how things could be and as an outsider, I come in and you come in and we see things that, because we aren't quite used to things the way they experienced them every day, and I'm sure our businesses are probably the same. People could step in and see what we put up with as well and say, you know, your business doesn't have to be that way. It could be different, and here we are thinking these thoughts towards the end of a boundary, a chronological boundary, and it's very motivating just to think about this. DAVID: But getting back to what you're talking about, can you talk a little bit about how to keep our expression of this D low? There are some really key concepts here. BLAIR: Yeah, can I just explain what you mean by desirability and desire a little bit more first? DAVID: Sure. BLAIR: These aren't the right words. This formula is like a bit of a work in progress. I don't think it's nearly as kind of succinct and self contained as Hazlitt's work. So maybe it's just a starting point and I'll throw it out in a few years and come back to something better. But when I talk about desirability or desire, I'm trying to find a word that sums up not only the needs of the organization, so when I talk about the client's desire for you or your desirability, it's not just the needs of the organization, it's the wants of the individual. It's not just economic needs or economic forms of value, it's personal or emotional forms of value. BLAIR: So, I was trying to find a word that encompasses all of those things, needs and wants, economic and emotional forms of value. And desire or desirability are the best words that I could come up with and they're not exactly the right words. They'll do though, I think. So, I'm really talking about does the client need/want you? Does the individual really want to work with you and does the organization have needs that really couldn't be met to the level that you can meet them by competitors? DAVID: We've all seen the sappy sort of high school movies, right? Where some guy's interested in some girl and the fact that she seems uninterested in him makes it even more difficult for him. It's sort of a little bit of this at play here. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: But talk about the Jedi mindset, investing in the sale. I want you to dive into how you can get to the point, there's not much control you have over how much they desire you outside of your positioning. But from your standpoint, how can you control your outlook on this possible sale? BLAIR: Yeah. So how can you control your expression of desire? The irony, it's ironic to me because when I was taught to do new business years ago, I was effectively taught to maximize, to show a high level of desire. DAVID: Yeah. And I've heard you talk about this and it just makes me laugh, talk about going to a physician who's just so excited to work on you. BLAIR: I really want your heart business. DAVID: Yeah. How that would turn you off. BLAIR: I'm really passionate about your heart. DAVID: It would just turn you off. You'd rather have not an inhuman, but more of a measured, thoughtful somebody who is very glad to serve you, but not somebody that's desperate to work on you. BLAIR: Yeah. So, it's an unfortunate condition of human beings that we are repulsed by neediness. And again, I was taught to do new business by demonstrating how passionate we were about the client's brand, how badly we wanted it. I can remember a situation, a new business pitch from one of the world's largest ad agencies where we just leaned into that. It was embarrassing. It was embarrassing the stuff that we did. And so what I'm saying is, you really need to minimize that and you would channel in these moments. You wouldn't channel kind of this service worker who's leaning on passion and enthusiasm because as we've said before, you're not in the service business, you're in the expertise business. So you would channel somebody more professional in your life, like your cardiologist, like your lawyer, like your accountant, and just ask yourself like what expression of desire would they communicate to you? BLAIR: So I think you want to be clinical, you want to be professional. It's perfectly appropriate to be enthusiastic about the fit as you uncover the situation, what it is the client's need. It's perfectly appropriate to say, oh man, as you learn more about the situation. These opportunities, these are right in our sweet spot. My people could get really excited about this. It's appropriate to communicate that. And again, we're not minimizing our expression of desire. We want to be really tuned into how much the client, do they see us as meaningfully different. Do they see us as the expert. And if they treat us like a vendor, where they're demonstrating kind of low desire for us or our desirability in their eyes is low, the worst thing that we could do is try to compensate that by proving to them how badly we want this. BLAIR: So, the short answer to your question of how do you minimize your expression of desire is you do not overinvest in the sale. So, let's count the ways that a creative firm can over-invest in the sale. DAVID: Free work. BLAIR: Free work, free strategy, get on a plane and go, and I'm not saying you shouldn't travel for new business meetings, but willingly getting on a plane too early, too eager to go get a face to face meeting to sit in front of the client, only to be stood up half of the time. And probably the biggest one is you go into the closing meeting and you go into presentation mode. So where you should be having a conversation, you go into convince mode. As soon as you start trying to convince the client that they should hire you, you're giving all the power away to the client. BLAIR: If you think about the professionals that you want to hire in your life, what you really want to do is you don't want a presentation, you want to sit down and you want to have a conversation, a peer to peer conversation where you're both openly assessing whether or not it makes sense to do business together and you're both being completely transparent and honest about what you see as the pluses of doing business together and what you see as the minuses, the cons or the concerns that you have. And if any party has a concern, you would want that party to put the concern on the table, and the other party to address it. And if it's a significant concern that can't really be addressed, you would want somebody to say, yeah, you know, that's an issue, that might be a deal killer. BLAIR: When you hire a professional in your life, that's how you would like to go about it. That's not how we do it in the creative business though, is it? DAVID: It's not. And I wonder why. We need to be engaged, we need to be thoughtful. We need to be glad for the opportunity to help somebody. But why do we overinvest so much in this field compared to other areas of the professional services fields? BLAIR: There are a lot of answers to that question. And one of the parts of the answers is, well, we've done it this way for a long time and we've conditioned clients this is how it works. So that's kind of just a comment on the state of things today. How did we get here? It's a function of a few things. At the heart of it is we're not good conversationalists. We in the creative professions are not good conversationalists. BLAIR: Now, if you think about most of the communication a creative firm has with a client right from the beginning when they're thinking of doing business together into the early days of the engagement, here's how it works. There's very few conversations. So first the client on their own and speaking amongst themselves, they decide we needed to hire a firm so we're going to put together a brief. So there's some internal communications and then they lob this RFP out to multiple firms. BLAIR: So, we're sitting here at our creative firm, hey, we get an RFP. We're allowed to ask a couple of questions maybe. But then we sit down, we talked amongst ourselves about coming up with a response to this communication. We submit our communication to them again. So it's one way communication from them to us. Then the client gets our RFP submission and they make a decision on whether or not they're going to invite us to the next step and then they send us a communication that says, congratulations, you're invited to the next step. It's a face to face presentation, here are the rules. And then we talk amongst ourselves and we prepare our presentation. BLAIR: We go in, the client's sitting there with their arms crossed. They don't say much and we present to them and then they say, okay, this is great, we'll get back to you. And then they make a decision and they communicate their decision to us and the decision might be, congratulations, you're hired. Now here's the real brief, and then we might get together and have a bit of a conversation and a fuller brief, and then we go away and we do the work and then we show up and we present again. It's just a series of one way presentations back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. We as creative professionals, and I've talked about this before, we are addicted to the presentation. BLAIR: There is something about the creative mindset or the makeup of the creative professional where one of their strengths is thinking on their feet. So, if you're a creative person, your real gift is the ability to see around corners. That's what creativity is. It's not the ability to draw or the ability to write. It's the ability to see. And for reasons I don't fully understand, directly tied to this ability to see around corners, is the ability to think on your feet. So if your strength is standing at the front of the room, giving a presentation and dealing with objections as they're thrown at you, if that's one of your strengths, if you love being in that moment, then you will create conditions where you are allowed to be in that moment. BLAIR: So, I believe that's a big reason why we're horrible conversationalists because we love to present. There's something about being creative that makes us skilled at presenting and dealing with objections. So we create this series of communications where it's one way at a time presentation, presentation, presentation. What I'm advocating is we get rid of all of that, and I talked about this in my first book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto. It's the second proclamation. We will replace presentations with conversations. BLAIR: And when you can learn to do that, now you can get to a place where you're no longer over-investing in the sale. You're showing up and facilitating a conversation. And because you're not over-invested in the sale, because you haven't stayed up all night doing a 50 or 100 page PowerPoint deck, because you haven't incurred all of these costs and begun to solve the client's problem is proof of your ability to solve the problem, then you don't have this high level of need. You're not over-invested in the sale. You're not over-invested emotionally or in time and hard costs. That's when when you can bring yourself to not over-invest emotionally in time or in hard costs of travel, etc, outside research, that's when you can demonstrate a low level of neediness. That's when it's easy to minimize your expression of desire and show up and just be professional and clinical and facilitate a real proper two-way conversation. DAVID: Yeah, as opposed to a series of telegrams. We're about out of time here, but I was just thinking about how, this is something I would love to explore with you sometime. I don't remember ever talking with you about this, but it's how we are addicted to solving problems as well. So, every time we see any problem that we can solve, we dive in even before we set the terms of the relationship. It's very much like a friend that you have. I'm not thinking of a specific one or even like my friendship with people. Instead of just listening to them, I'm always looking for places to solve, like provide my advice or to start solving the problem. BLAIR: To be their personal consultant. DAVID: Yeah, exactly. And rather than just listening, we're so addicted to solving problems, making money solving problems, it's almost an afterthought. BLAIR: Well, it's one of the reasons why new business meetings go so wrong because you bring people from your team to a meeting kind of early in the buying cycle where the client's still thinking about things, you're getting to know each other a little bit. You think, okay, I'm going to bring my creative director, I'm going to bring my account planner and maybe even my media person if you're still in the media business. I'm going to bring these people in the meeting for whatever reasons. These people are trained to solve problems in their specific domain, right? You bring them to a meeting with somebody who has a problem, what are they going to do? They're going to start to solve the problem even though you haven't been paid yet. So, either quit bringing these people to new business meetings or give them some sort of training so they know where the line is, the line that they cannot cross of beginning to solve the client's problem as proof of your ability to solve the problem. DAVID: Right. Yeah. Oh, there's just so many deep nuggets in here. Maybe a lot more of our training should be around how to have useful conversations, how to listen. I was at a meeting this last week. It was a two day session with 10 agency principals. And as an experiment, what I said to them was, okay, you're not allowed for the next hour or so. I didn't give it a time, that's what I was thinking. You're not allowed to give anybody any advice. All you're allowed to do is ask questions. It changed the entire nature. All of a sudden, it wasn't as defensive. We listened to each other so much more carefully. This is just such a fascinating topic. DAVID: So if we want to leave people with a little bit of homework, they can think about to what degree their positioning gives them any power in the relationship. That's the foundation that you talked about. And then maybe do some analysis of new business situations that didn't go well and think about where was the power imbalance and did you see early signs of it and how did you react to that? What would you leave with people as they begin thinking a little bit more about this? BLAIR: Yeah, I would think of the new business opportunities that you lost or maybe even the ones that you won and then the engagement didn't go well because you feel like something you did in the sale. And just run the whole sale or pitch process however you think about it through this filter of P=db/D. Did you have the power to win the right type of business at high margin, at low cost of sale with you positioned to have the greatest impact? Was your expression of your desire for the client and the engagement lower than your desirability? If you were suffering from low desirability, is it a function of your positioning? Is it a function of where the lead came from? You chased it down and dragged it in rather than they came to you. So, just take the formula and run it against your recent new business failures. That's such a harsh word, but the ones that didn't go well, and just see if you can find the root of the problem. DAVID: Yeah, and have more conversations instead of starting to solve client problems before they've engaged you to do it. Ask great questions. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: Great. Thank you Blair, this was really interesting. Appreciate it. BLAIR: Thanks David.

How can you avoid pitching and price your services higher? If you are someone who makes a living from selling creative services (or any professional services) this episode is pure gold. I had the privilege to talk to Blair Enns, founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, a training and coaching company with a focus on helping creative firms learn how to sell and price their services. Blair shares brilliant insights from his two books, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, and Pricing Creativity - A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. Check out Blair's company and order his books and training programs at www.winwithoutpitching.com Connect with my companies: www.wonderagency.com www.kokoromoi.com or email me at hello@tobiasdahlberg.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobbedahlberg/

Ep #84: If you think about that maybe you don't charge enough for your service, then it could be the time to raise your prices. Or if you are new in your business then don’t sell yourself short. In this episode, Blair Enns shares how to how to price your services. You will learn the principles of how to set your prices, how to negotiate with people on the service packages you have, how to raise your price and close higher deals. Blair is on a mission to change the way creative services are bought and sold the world over.  He is the founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, the sales training and coaching organization for creative professionals, and the author of two books on selling and pricing for creative professionals Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Prot Beyond the Billable Hour and The Win Without Pitching Manifesto.  He is also the cohost, along with David C. Baker, of 2Bobs, the podcast on creative entrepreneurship.  Time Stamped Show Notes: [00:22] About the episode and Blair Enns [02:01] Blair started his career in an ad agency that led him to open a consulting business advising the ad agencies and design firms on business development [05:59] The difference in pricing when you move from the small town to the big city [08:31] How to set your price [13:34] Why some people get paid a lot and some stay with the low prices for a long time [17:03] How to price your service when you just starting out [22:27] An example of how to price a new business [29:49] How to negotiate the price [36:12] How to raise your price right now [42:39] Where to find Blair online [43:27] For the show notes go to marinabarayeva.com and subscribe to the Marketing for Creatives show   Let’s get in touch: Check what influencer you are as an entrepreneur. Take a quiz at marinabarayeva.com/influencer Did you get new insights? Please leave a short review on iTunes Follow on Instagram @MarinaBarayeva Follow on Twitter @MarinaBarayeva

Pricing for creative services has always been a difficult topic. As creative entrepreneurs, we often feel embarrassed about charging a high amount for our work. We'll set rate based on time spent or put a fixed package rate up on our website. As a result, we often undervalue our services. The prices you set shouldn't be based on the cost of the input or the market value of the deliverables. They should be based on the value that you're adding to the client and also the risk that you're taking on. At the end of the day, value comes down to a feeling and what people are willing to pay for that feeling. Services are either a productized business (pursuing scale) or a customized services business (pursuing quality). If you're not a productized business, you need to stop pricing yourself as such. You can reserve the right to charge different clients based on how they value your business. Bring the same creativity you use in your work to your business model. To dive deeper into this concept, I've brought on an expert who knows all about the art of pricing: Blair Enns. Blair's sales training program for creative professionals, Win Without Pitching, seeks to change the way creative services are bought and sold in the world. Blair wrote The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond The Billable Hour. Download this episode today to learn to price your creative services based on value to the client and risk involved instead of a fixed rate. WARRIOR OF GRACE  “In life, all profit comes from risk.” -Blair Enns Highlights - Our prices should be based on the value to the client. The Value Triad consists of revenue gains, cost reduction, and emotional contributions. Ending a price with a “9” signals to people that the item is on sale. Always offer price options. Price the client, not the job. Don't put prices on your website. You need to decide whether yours is a customized service business (pursuing quality) or a productized business (pursuing scale). The last obstacle in pricing creativity is you. Don't be embarrassed about making a lot of money. The exchange of money is a certificate of appreciation. Guest Contact - Blair's Website Blair's Twitter Blair's Book:  The Win Without Pitching Manifesto   Contact Jeffrey - Website Coaching support My book, LINGO: Discover Your Ideal Customer's Secret Language and Make Your Business Irresistible is now available! Watch my TEDX LincolnSquare video and please share!  Resources - Have Your Website Brand Message Reviewed! Is your website and are all your marketing materials speaking the right LINGO of your ideal customers? Often it's not which is why you're not converting traffic and leads to clients and attracting your most profitable customers. Fill out the simple LINGO Review application and I'll take a look at your website. If I have suggestions for you to improve your brand message (I almost always do), we'll set up a complimentary 30-minute call to discuss. A select number of websites are also chosen for my LINGO Review Video Series. Fill out the application today and let's get your business speaking the right LINGO! Music by Jawn  

What's Up, Creative Hustlers! Steven & Melissa here. Today, we're talking with Blair Enns who is on a mission to change the way creative services are bought and sold the world over. He offers sales training and coaching for creative professionals and shares this wisdom in his two books the Win Without Pitching Manifesto and his most recent work, Pricing Creativity.   [00:00] This episode is brought to you by Latin & Code, your interim CMOs. [00:43] This interview is sponsored by The Agency Guy. If you're not sure what to do with your marketing budget, you need this support. [01:35] Why Blair is a Creative Hustler in 60 seconds or less. [03:13] Blair's wakeup call to change his mindset on pitches. [04:10] There's a gulf between how Creatives sell, and how everyone else does. [04:41] Why designers and creatives are illogical. [05:30] Creative people take it personally, and they don't build niche businesses. [06:10] A creative person's need for variety is at odds with their businesses need for stability. [07:35] You focus so you can build deep expertise. [08:11] If you have the expertise, you have power in buy/sell interaction. [08:26] Gain power then leverage power. [09:16] Challenge the client's assumptions, and get them to hire a firm like yours. [09:34] What about the one-person shops who feel like they have to say YES? [10:08] There are two levels of success: Level one is Validation and level two is Freedom. [11:09] Saying no to almost everything. [13:15] What is Pricing Creativity all about? [14:54] What happened in the gap between books? [17:00] Pricing is not just math. It's deep and broad. [17:30] Blair's book is aimed at those who won't read the boring pricing books. [19:35] What people are buying and why. [20:14] What Blair is looking forward to in 2019. [21:30] Leading by example in the Ad Agency space. [22:36] Ad Agency will say anything to get in the room and win the business. [23:46] Be kind but ruthlessly honest. [25:39] If you're going to say no, explain the reason why. [26:24] You can fake some things early on in your business until you have it. [28:20] If you don't set expectations, you get taken advantage of. [29:28] There are only two positions with the client, you can be a vendor or expert practitioner. [30:22] Vendors follow the client's lead, but experts ask “what do we do next?” [30:51] The sale is the sample, you take the lead and ask the client to follow. [31:30] It's better to not win the business as a vendor. [32:26] Blair would have any coffee with Elon Musk because no one is more of a hustler. [34:04] That's a wrap, Creative Hustlers. [34:15] Where Blair lives on the internet. [34:46] Don't forget to follow us on TheCreativeHustler.com and LatinAndCode.com, and please leave a review on iTunes and Sticher. [34:57] Peace Out! [35:03] Melissa's Moment of Hustle Contact with Blair Enns: https://twitter.com/blairenns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/ Win Without Pitching Manifesto Pricing Creativity

The legendary Blair Enns, author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond The Billable Hour, joins Ceinwen on the podcast. Through his sales training program for creative professionals, he started out on a mission to change the way creative services are bought and sold the world over. Having applied Blair’s principles to her business development strategy, Ceinwen highlights how the Win Without Pitching methodology has created a valuable and qualitative impact on her business and why the professional services industry should adopt these concepts.Visit the show notes at: https://www.firstfollower.com/podcasts/3Learn more about growth strategies at: https://www.firstfollower.com/Theme music: S Strong - The Rover by S Strong https://soundcloud.com/s_strong

In any trade, mastering the work is just the first of many hurdles. But one of the most daunting for most agency owners is pricing. What is the work worth? Who is my competition, and what if they offer services for less? What is the true value of the work we’re doing and what’s the ROI for our client? There will always be someone (agency or freelancer) who is willing to do the same work for less. But how does that influence our pricing strategy and should it? This episode is all about the value conversation that leads to identifying a price based on the value you are offering. We’re going to dive into both the theories and principles and how to get over the discomfort of putting these pricing principles into practice. Blair is an expert in sales, particularly in the creative services industry. He started his career working for a number of Canadian ad agencies and design firms. In 2000, he struck out on his own with a consulting practice named Win Without Pitching. In our conversation, Blair will walk us through a framework developed over decades of learning, trying, failing and perfecting value-based selling for creatives. Blair is the author of Win Without Pitching Manifesto. He has just written a brand-new book called Pricing Creativity. I have spent some time with it, and the cool thing is, it's not really a book – or more precisely, it’s not only a book. It's more of a training manual – a three-ring binder full of all kinds of tips, tricks, and the psychology of pricing strategy. This is a meaty episode and I promise – it’s going to give you plenty to think about. What you’ll learn about in this episode: How to effectively price your creative work Why a one-page proposal beats a 75-page presentation every time The value of silence in the sales process Moving from vendor to valued expert early in the sales process Making the closing on the sale a “non-event” The four-step framework for mastering the value conversation How to discipline yourself to not offer solutions too early in the process The mindset shift needed to improve selling skills to become a pricing expert Having value conversations with the right decision-makers How to move from agreeing with sales principles to making them standard practice Ways to contact Blair: Website: winwithoutpitching.com Ebook/Training: winwithoutpitching.com/pricingcreativity We’re proud to announce that Hubspot is now the presenting sponsor of the Build A Better Agency podcast! Many thanks to them for their support!

Blair Enns, CEO of Win Without Pitching (Kaslo, British Columbia) and author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour   Blair Enns is Founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, a company that trains creative agencies on how to win business without giving away their most valuable product—their intellectual property—in getting that business. Blair authored two business books that have proven to be transformational for many creative firms: The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. Key to the power of these books is Blair's recognition that Creative people have an inherent difficulty with “sales.”   Blair defines creativity as “the ability to see, the ability to bring a novel perspective to a problem you haven't previously solved.” Creative people tend to build businesses that allow them to solve problems they haven't previously solved. However, their personal desire for variety does not work from a business standpoint—to build a strong, financially solid firm, they need to differentiate, to focus on doing a specific thing for a specific market.   In this interview, Blair emphasizes the importance of client selection . . . of building your business with clients who are interested in value and a return on investment . . . rather than chasing budget-driven clients who are focused solely on price—those who see marketing as a commodity with charges based on billable hours and the cost of materials. The foundation of a strong business is value-driven clients who recognize that creativity is unique in its ability to produce bottom-line results and worth the investment. Although a creative agency might sell excess capacity to price-buyers, it is critical that the agency “strip out the extras” for the reduced-price client, instead of trying to “fly everyone first class.”   Blair is very clear that a price-focused buyer is unlikely to become a value-focused buyer. The creative's job is to discern a buyer's-type and manage that buyer appropriately.   Blair is available on his company's website: winwithoutpitching.com and as Blair Enns on Twitter and LinkedIn. If you're interested in his book, Pricing Creativity, go to pricingcreativity.com.  

Value Based Pricing is a term that frequently comes up when people talk about service based businesses, but exactly how it works is often a mystery to us designers. In this episode Ian Paget speaks to Blair Enns to learn what value based pricing is, and how it can be used to build a profitable business whilst also providing the best service possible to your clients. Blair Enns is the author of the highly acclaimed book The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, and Pricing Creativity: a guide to profit beyond the billable hour. Show notes along with an episode transcription can be found here: https://logogeek.uk/podcast/value-based-pricing/   Resources & Books Mentioned Win Without Pitching Manifesto by Blair Enns  Amazon US | Amazon UK Pricing Creativity by Blair Enns (Only available at pricingcreativity.com) Built to Sell by John Warrillow  Amazon US | Amazon UK Pricing on Purpose by Ronald J. Baker  Amazon US | Amazon UK   Sponsored by Freshbooks This episode is sponsored by FreshBooks, which is an cloud based accounting software that makes it easy to create and send branded invoices, track time and to manage your incoming and outgoing money. It’s designed specifically for creative professionals, so it’s beautifully designed, and continually optimised and improved. I highly recommend it, and you can try it out for yourself free for 30 days.  Go check FreshBooks out!

"There's so much emphasis on people getting a job right after they graduate and getting into the workforce. You'd be hard pressed to find a lot more real life lessons than working at a restaurant...the real life world lessons and the things that you learn by serving people is something that can refine skills." Starting a business as a young person takes a lot of courage. You are often looked down upon by older professionals as having too little life & professional experience and too great expectations. It takes grit, perseverance and hard work. These are the key traits of an entrepreneur. Adam White has those traits. The founder & CEO of Front Office Sports joined the show discuss how a failed goal to be a member of the U.S. Coast Guard eventually led to starting one of the sports business's leading online publications. Adam tells the story of how FOS began as a schoool project and later scaled to a much greater audience demanding more content. He also touches on how he worked full-time at a UMiami restaurant where he climbed through the ranks of fry cook and kitchen trainer before eventually becoming manager all while traveling the U.S. creating content for Front Office Sports and working on his bachelors degree. We chat about the common entrepreneurial stategy of faking it until you make it, being comfortable speaking the language of business and interviewing professionals and the importance of focus. Lastly, Adam discusses where he sees the future of Front Office Sports and more. Mentions Include: Adam White on Twitter Adam White on LinkedIn Front Office Sports on Twitter Russ Wilde, Jr. on Twitter The Rathskeller at University of Miami Adam Martin on Front Office Sports Win Without Pitching Manifesto "The One Thing" My next guest is going to be Jeremy Mitchell, founder of Mitchell Bat Co. While working as a creative director at a Nashville ad agency by day, Jeremy creates custom-pained wood bats for consumers, clients and brands on the side and it has grown into lucrative brand. This show will also mark the 100th episode of Makers of Sport Podcast. We will be giving a way a commemorative MoS bat to a lucky listener. Follow @makersofsport on Twitter for details. Sign up for the weekly email newsletter for updates, discounts on future products and exclusive content for subscribers. You can also show your support for the podcast by joining the community and keeping it sponsor-free. Did you enjoy this episode? Then please rate and/or write a review of the show on iTunes. Also, be sure to follow show host, @TAdamMartin and @MakersofSport.

David re-reads the 2nd chapter of Blair’s first book, leading to a discussion about how sales people have to choose between either presenting to clients or being present to them.   TRANSCRIPT DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, we are going to talk today about replacing presentations with conversations.  BLAIR ENNS: The second proclamation. DAVID: Yeah, it's actually the second chapter in your book, which I'm holding right now in my grimy little hands. The book, it's black with red, looks like foil to make it look expensive, so you could charge an extra couple bucks for it probably. It says Win Without Pitching Manifesto, and the second chapter is about replacing presentations with conversations, but I think if you would let me, I'd like to make a public confession before we get into this. BLAIR: Sure. DAVID: Your book actually sells better than mine, and I want you to know that that pisses me off. BLAIR: I read a great quote the other day, maybe it was Gore Vidal who said, "Every time a friend succeeds, a little part of me dies."  DAVID: I don't know if this was the third or fourth printing, but since we published the book, we got these three skids of your books. Not only do I hate the fact that your book has sold better than my last book, but I have to haul these skids of your book like for punishment, to remind me constantly that they're selling. BLAIR: That's what you get for moonlighting as my publisher. DAVID: Yeah, instead of focusing on what I should be doing, yeah. BLAIR: The fourth printing should arrive any day now, it's larger than all the other ones. Can I just keep bragging here? I'm surprised it's been, well I think it's somewhere around seven years, and sales just keep going up, I can't explain it. DAVID: I'm more surprised than anybody, because I've read it and I know you. The idea is replacing presentations with conversations, and actually I read through chapter two again, it was actually fun to read that part of the book again. You talk a lot about avoiding the big reveal, and the first thing I could think of was several episodes of Mad Men where they have the single pitch board on an easel in the conference room and it's covered, and when they say "big reveal", they mean big reveal, they lift this thing up and there's this tension in the room. You talk about the fact that we're addicted to that. I'm not sure that people would admit that they're addicted to that, can you talk more about that first, to start us off? BLAIR: Some people might listen to that and think, "Well, I'm not addicted to that," but I think you and I probably have different definitions of creativity. You might have kind of a broader look at what it means to be creative, and I take my cues from Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, who wrote the book Flow, and he studies happiness and creativity. He says creativity is the ability to see, the ability to bring kind of a new perspective to a problem. It's not the ability to write or draw, he refers to that as "personal creativity". BLAIR: Creative people who can look at things differently, they just see things differently, that's kind of to me the hallmark of creativity, one of the things that goes hand in hand with being creative is the ability to think on your feet, so these two things, for reasons I don't fully understand, they're tied to each other. When somebody has this really strong ability to kind of bring a fresh perspective to a problem, they also have a really strong ability to go with the flow and deal with whatever kind of objections are thrown at them. If your strength is standing in front of a room, saying something, hearing an objection, and then having to react to it, and then kind of sell in the situation or recover from a situation, then you are going to look for as many situations like that that you can create. BLAIR: I'll give you a great example of a friend and a client from many years ago, creative director at a small design firm, and he was presenting a new identity to a consulting firm. He does the big reveal, and it's very quiet, and then he's a little bit nervous because it's so quiet, and he says, "What do you think?" One of them says, "Well interesting, I notice you've changed our name from XYZ Consulting to XYZ Consultants." It was just a mistake, an error on his part, and he responded immediately. He said, "Exactly, because consulting, that's what you do, consultants, that's who you are." They bought it, so they changed the name because he just responded in the moment. BLAIR: Creative people love being in that situation of presenting, having to deal with an objection, and then coming through it, because the euphoria is profound, it's huge. If that's who you are, if that's your strength, commanding a room, having to dance, having to respond to objections, et cetera, not knowing what's going to happen next, then you will create as many situations as possible where you get to do that, and the whole time you will tell yourself and tell others and tell me and tell you, "No no no, that's the way this business works, or that's the best way to communicate this information to the client," and it's not. It's all about you and your personal need to present as a creative person. DAVID: You would say that that's pretty widespread in the creative field, because most of the creative field has been walking down that path for many years, there's something about that personality. I think of it as diving into an empty pool and inventing water on the way down, that's how I think of it. When I think about public speaking, to me that's sort of what's happened, or when I'm doing consulting where I know that within a few hours, we're going to have to have some at least provisional answer, and we don't yet, and that's terrifying but also thrilling. There's something about the creative feel of creative entrepreneurs that's bringing that. Now, would this equally apply to presentations in a new business setting as it would to presentations as the work is unfolding? BLAIR: There are different types of presentations, and there are different times in the relationship in which we feel like it's appropriate to present. If we start with the idea that we are addicted to the presentation and the presentation does not need to exist, if you come around to my way of thinking on that, then you will look at the presenting that you do in a new business situation, and you'll realize that this is not necessary, I'm doing this for me. You really first have to come to grips and be honest with yourself about your own need to present. What I recommend is, reform yourself when it comes to your existing clients. DAVID: First. BLAIR: Yeah, first. Replace the big reveal with a series of little reveals, and then once you get your head around that, then you will be able to think about your need to present in a new business situation a little bit differently. There are all kinds of creative people outside of the creative professions, so most entrepreneurs I think fit this description of a creative person, because I think you have to be somewhat creative to be ... I test for this in the tests that we do for all of the people who enter the Win Without Pitching program, so I can get an objective measure of how creative in that sense, or how much they crave standing up in front of the room and being forced to dance. BLAIR: There's a rudimentary question that's, and I'll ask the audience right now, and I've asked this in many seminars or workshops I've led. Usually I do it after break, I come back into the room and I say, "Hey," and I'm clearly kind of roleplaying or playing a scenario, I say, "Hey, in the hallway, I just ran into the chairman of the board of your most highly coveted client. Think of the company that you've always wanted to work for. They're having a board meeting in the meeting room right next to ours, and I told them that I was spending the day with you, and they said, 'Oh great, can you send somebody in to do a 15-minute presentation on their firm? Because we're looking to hire a firm like theirs.'" BLAIR: Then I say to the audience, "You have 10 seconds to get over there and present. You have no time to prepare," you get up out of your chair and start walking, and then I say, "Okay, stop. What's your reaction? Everybody just measure what your reaction to that is, I've just told you you have no time to prepare, you have to go to a 15 minute presentation, you have to be there in 10 seconds, what's your reaction?" You look at the audience, and you can see the range of responses in their faces. Some people are grinning, these are the people, they would say, "I'll think of what I'm going to say on the way over there," and they love the stress of that moment because they have this great ability to respond, to think on their feet. BLAIR: These are the people, as you say, who love to dive off the diving board and invent water on the way down. Then you've got the kind of low autonomy people that are very systematic and process-oriented, and these people are horrified, they need vision and clarity of what's going to happen next. They need to know what their steps are, they need to be prepared, it's their worst fears to come off unprepared. They haven't even considered what they might say or the objections that they might encounter, and they need to be able to think through all of those things. BLAIR: If you're in that first category, then I can all but promise you that you have built your business around that strength of yours, and you have driven your cost of sale way up, and probably your closing ratios down. Now obviously, there's some places where it's served you well, but for the most part when it comes to getting new clients, I'll bet you it's hurt you more than it's helped you. DAVID: Do you remember years ago, when some creative firms, especially designers, would take a portfolio book, and there were pages that you'd flip? I remember reading this study, I don't remember where it was, how the pacing was so different if you controlled it as, say, the principal of the firm making this presentation, or let the client control the pace, how much faster the pace was. They were not interested in the presentation, they were much more interested in getting to their issue. I think that plays into what you're talking about, but the question specifically that's coming to my mind right now is, like so you talk a lot about how the expert needs to direct the relationship, how is the expert directing the relationship if they're not talking that much, if the client is doing most of the talking? In other words, if we're letting the client fulfill their needs here, how are we not relinquishing this need to direct the relationship? BLAIR: Well, I think you know the answer, because if you're not talking, what's left? DAVID: Listening, or asking questions. BLAIR: Yeah, if you map out the role of the two parties, buyer and seller, over the length of the sale, you will see that when it's done properly, a proper consultative sale, early in the relationship, the salesperson is talking about 25% of the time, and they're using their 25% to ask questions, and the client is taking 75% of the time, and they're using that time to give their responses. Then at the end of the sale, the close, it's reversed, the client is speaking 25% of the time, and they're asking you, the seller, the questions, and you're taking 75% of the time to respond to their questions. Nowhere in there are you standing at a PowerPoint deck in presentation mode, you're either asking questions or you're responding to the clients' questions. BLAIR: It's interesting, that portfolio book and the amount of time. I had a really interesting conversation just a week or two ago with a principal that I know well, and we were talking about capabilities presentations, and I was saying, "No, the capabilities presentation does not need to exist." We were getting into a very constructive, respectful argument or a discussion where we're each advancing our views on the subject, about capabilities presentations, he was saying, "No, it's valid, you have all this information you want to communicate about your firm." I said to him, "How long does it take you to get through your capabilities presentation?", and he kind of looked a little bit sheepish, and I said, "Is it more than five minutes?", and he kind of looked at his feet, and I said, "Is it more than 30 minutes?" He said, "Well, it's about an hour." DAVID: I'm already bored just listening to that. BLAIR: Yeah, just by answering that question, I think he got the realization that, "Okay, this is all about me," but in fairness, this person is more kind of on the low autonomy process-oriented type person who's more comfortable, and it takes more training, more practice, and never comes completely easy to him to kind of stand up and be responsive. DAVID: Right, so we're going to have different perspectives on this based on who we are as people. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: One of the things that you say, and as I read through this I made a note of this phrase because it really intrigued me, you said, "We cannot be transparent if we are withholding information for the presentation." First, I'm not sure I completely understand. My mind first went to, are you talking about like putting the price at the end of the presentation? I don't think you're talking about that necessarily, but what do you mean and why do you say this specifically? BLAIR: I'm talking about in your relationships with existing clients. The big buzzwords of the last, I don't know, decade or so, authenticity is one, we need to do a whole podcast on authenticity. DAVID: God, I'm so tired of that word. BLAIR: My least favorite word on the planet. DAVID: "Storytelling" is close second for me. BLAIR: People talk about authenticity, transparency, and collaboration, these are three of the big buzzwords of our time. Let's just put authenticity aside, and talk about transparency and collaboration. Firms are out there saying, "We work transparently and collaboratively with our clients." Okay, well if that's really true, transparent means the client has a window into what you're doing, what you're thinking, where the project is at any time, you're not withholding. DAVID: Like and they know that you haven't even started it, and you've had it for three weeks and it's due in three days, that's transparency. BLAIR: Yeah, and they know it, that's transparency. Collaboration is where you're working with your client, rather than going away and coming back and presenting, so transparency and collaboration. You think about it, the presentation can only exist in the absence of both, right? The need for presentation is only there if you are withholding information from the client. DAVID: Yeah, if you're delivering new information that you previously had and chose not to give them, you're saving it for the presentation, so that's what you're talking about. BLAIR: Yeah. When I was still a consultant, I had been writing about this and talking about this for years, and then one day I realized, "Oh my God, I still do this." When I'm doing a business development audit, I withhold all of the learning until the end, and then I unveil my genius findings that makes me feel great. DAVID: I'm just going to let that pass, okay? BLAIR: Yeah, but it's like, "I'm going to rock this person's world by letting them know the really insightful things that I've discovered about their business," and my reaction is I want them to go, "Oh my God Blair, you're so smart, I never thought of that before, this changes everything!" That's the reaction I'm looking for, and all of us who go into presentation mode, we need to admit that that's the reaction we're looking for and it's really all about us, because what if I'm wrong? What if I got the name of the company wrong, like my friend, the creative director? There's a renamed company out there because of a slip like that.   BLAIR: I realized I was admonishing my clients for doing this, and I realized I still do it too. What did I start to do? As I'm learning key things, I would share them with the client. I would never get rid of the final reveal, the final share, I knew I was being transparent and collaborative when in that final phone call, when I was delivering my findings and recommendations. I would begin by saying, "Okay, I've already shared with you most of what I'm going to share with you here today, we're just going to put a nice little bow around it." I'm just letting them know, "There is no big reveal, because I've already shared with you." BLAIR: If I would get a hypothesis, I would reach out to my client and say, "You know, I think I'm seeing this pattern," et cetera. That doesn't come naturally, but I felt like I needed to take my own medicine, and I realized that when I was doing this, I was far less likely to make a big mistake or miss something vital altogether. Like how often does that happen in a presentation where you think you've killed it, and the client goes, "Wow, that's great, what about Singapore?", "What do you mean Singapore?", you've forgotten something significant. DAVID: This is an early test along the way, so if you get your hand slapped it's not a big slap. It's not getting hit with a baseball bat, it's like, "Silly man, no, that won't work." I hear people objecting though, because I know that a lot of my clients and your clients are listening to this and saying, "Listen, I have the answer early in the process, and I just withhold it because it makes it seem to easy if I just blurt it out." I'm going to say, "Okay, I really know the answer, but we'll get back to you in about a week or 10 days, and then we'll embellish and clean up and prep the answer and give it to you," because they feel like they're not going to be able to charge the fees they want to if it looks that easy to them. What are you going to say to somebody that's, I guarantee you some people are going to think that when they hear what we just talked about. BLAIR: I completely sympathize, I mean I operated the same way for many years as a consultant. I know you, I'm not going to give away your secret, but when you've modeled out how it works, when you've seen all the patterns, you know the information that you need. When you have true specialized expertise, it's really just small pieces of information that you need. That's the difference between an expert and a generalist, a generalist needs to collect all of this information and then sift through it all, and try to find some sort of relationship and pattern. The specialist comes along and says, "I've done this 1,000 times before. Give me these four things," and then you can deliver, like in your case, it might be 20, 30, $50,000 worth of value probably really quickly, like probably in minutes, but you let things unfold and you reserve the right to, "Well, maybe I'm missing something." BLAIR: I think that's valid, "Maybe I'm missing something, let me just let some ideas kind of gestate, let me think about things a little bit differently," but I see the pattern, I have the hypothesis right away, it's pretty clear to me. I sympathize with that, and I think there's some sort of middle ground here where I think that's valid. I think that some clients, not the best clients, but some clients have a real hard time with the fact that it took you 10 minutes to come up with a solution, and I've just paid you $50,000. DAVID: Yeah, and I think I do ask for more information than I need sometimes to make the process to look more thorough, so that it looks like a better value proposition for the client. That's an immediate sort of recognition on my part. I think just as the recommendations I'm making to my clients are shorter and more on point than they used to be, we should not be giving clients more homework than we need to either. Let's just ask for the things that we really need, they should only be allowed to answer questions, they should not be allowed to talk unless they're answering a specific question. DAVID: We can't be transparent if we're withholding information for the presentation. Another thought that popped up as I was reading through chapter two again is that when you are presenting, you are not listening, you're not being present. In other words, you can't effectively multitask here. Do you want to talk more about that? BLAIR: Yeah. I think I've said this on other podcasts, you can present to somebody or you can be present to them, and you can't do both. You're either transmitting or you're receiving, and another kind of sub-point under this is when you're presenting, you're kind of in violation of some of the principles of value pricing, value pricing where you're getting paid to deliver value. You're not on inputs like time and materials, not on outputs like delivering X or Y logo, et cetera, a campaign, but on the value that create for the client. Ideally, that's the place where we all want to get to or get closer to, where we're commanding fees or remuneration for the value we're creating for the clients. BLAIR: For you to value price, you need to have a really meaningful value conversation, and there's steps to a value conversation. One of the keys to a value conversation is, you need to be focused on uncovering a desired future state of the client, it's this duality of zen mind, beginner mind, like the blank slate of a beginner and the mind of the expert. You need to be expert enough to know the questions to ask, but you need to be beginner enough to kind of move off of the solutions, as Mahan Khalsa would say, and just quit thinking about what you're going to sell to this person. BLAIR: The ideal state of somebody who's selling creative services or marketing services or any consultative services, the ideal state of that salesperson is you are present to the client, you're intently focused on understanding them, learning about their situation, learning about their desired future state, and you are letting go for the moment of how you are going to help them get there. I think in a large enough sale and a long enough sale, you want to uncover the information, and ideally go away, and then start thinking about solutions. That's not always possible, but you want to have this line in the conversation where first it's all about you, Mr. Client, and then I'll start thinking about solutions. When you're presenting, it's not how focused are you on the client, you're up there with a PowerPoint presentation talking about you. DAVID: Or inane things about them that an intern could've gotten with a Google search. BLAIR: Yeah. Here's the section of the deck, "strategy', or, "Here's everything we know about your business that we Googled last night." DAVID: "And that you already know and don't need to hear again." BLAIR: Yeah, "I'm just showing you that I have great search skills." As you can see, I have an opinion on this, it drives me crazy. People are listening to this and thinking, some people are just never coming back. I believe this so strongly, and I believe most of the creative profession gets this entirely wrong. I get, I don't know how often anymore, it's not once a month anymore, but for awhile there was once a month, inquiries saying, "Do you do presentation skills training?" My reply is, "No, I deprogram people of their own need to present." BLAIR: Now, they always go away after, "Okay, thanks, I'm going to go get some presentation skills training." If you are focused on presentation skills training, your mind is in the wrong place, it's all about you. There are some things you can do, some courses, there's a woman out there by the name of Anese Cavanaugh, she has this methodology called IEP: intentional energetic presence. It's basically how to show up, how to show up at work, how to show up physically and emotionally in a meeting, how to deal with situations. DAVID: How to be authentic. BLAIR: I don't know about that. DAVID: See how I slipped that in? BLAIR: You should do IEP training instead of presentation skills training. Presentation skills training is the wrong thing to do. Now, there's a time and a place for the presentation, internal presentations, even the odd client presentation when you're collaborating with your direct client and they need you to present to a larger audience. All of that is valid, public speaking, you want some presentation skills around that, all of that is valid. Looking for presentation skills training to improve your new business development results- DAVID: Like your close rate. BLAIR: It's exactly the wrong thing to do. DAVID: I'm just pausing here just to let that sink in for people. BLAIR: Good, yeah, I'm going to have a cigarette now. DAVID: You're saying, don't look for training to do presentations better, don't do presentations at all, but there's obviously room for training about how to listen, how to ask better questions. You're not dismissing that sort of training. BLAIR: No, not at all. In fact, I think that's what IEP is about, that's what some of the things that we talk, you know the ideas, I forget where this comes from, I've stolen it from somebody who has a book on leadership, the idea of what I call the physiology of leadership. Leadership as a social science, that's a great model for selling. You can study anybody's model of leadership, and you'll become a better salesperson, but I refer to the physiology of leadership as two things: calm presence. You're calm, you're not anxious, and you're present. That should be your demeanor every time you're selling, and there's all kinds of different ways and different methods and models that you can use to improve your calm presence in a situation. BLAIR: You and I have done seminars on IP development where we've used constraint-driven exercises, and we use constraint-driven exercises in the Win Without Pitching program, I use them in speeches and workshops, I've become a huge fan of constraint-driven exercises. Just think of this as a constraint-driven exercise, I'm talking to our audience here. DAVID: We can't present naturally normally. BLAIR: Yeah, what would you do if you were not able to present, how would you go about trying to win this business if you were not able to give a presentation or use a PowerPoint deck of any kind, what would you do? Well, the short answer is you would have a conversation, right? DAVID: Right. BLAIR: Then there's all kinds of things that you need to sort out about, "Well, what questions do I ask? What framework do I use for the questions?", but you will find most of the time that the need for presentation, it's really on your end and it's not really reciprocated by the client. Now, there are some caveats. If you work in packaged goods, CPG or FMCG as it's known in Europe, and you're dealing with brand managers who deal with creative firms all day long, they kind of want to see the dog and pony show sometimes, so you might have to make the odd exception.  BLAIR: Now, I remember a client of mine many years ago, a very strategic firm, but not the best creative in one of the largest markets in America, and they were competing against the hottest creative shop in that market. When we set up the final meeting, so it was down to the two of them, I had them put all of the creative stuff that they wanted to present on a table over in the corner of the room. When they were facilitating the conversation, they made the point that, "The quality of our creative is good, you know that or else we wouldn't be this far. You've already seen it, if you want to see more of it, it's on the table over there, let's get to why we're really here," and so they move onto the more kind of valuable part of the conversation. BLAIR: Of the three people on the client side, there was the president, there was the COO, and there was the brand guy. The brand guy got a little fidgety at this, and at the end of the conversation, the president and CEO of the client business, they didn't need to see the creative again, but at the end of the conversation the brand guy got up and said, "I'm sorry, I just need to have a look through this," and he flipped through some stuff. He came back and he sat down, and he had this sense of relief, "Okay, good, I'm good," and they won the business, they beat the hottest creative shop. BLAIR: If they had stood up and gone into presentation mode to try and match this other firm at their own game, instead they facilitated a conversation. The point I'm trying to make is, the senior people at the client side, they don't want to sit through a presentation. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: You know, we all have websites, right? DAVID: Especially nowadays, you could see maybe that would've made sense 15, 20 years ago, but not so much today, it's boring to people. BLAIR: I'm fond of saying, "Sometimes it's better to be different than it is to be better." If you are going into a competitive situation against three or four other firms, and everybody else is doing the dog and pony show, you have an advantage if you treat the situation differently. If you try to break down the walls and facilitate a conversation, and if you can go first and do that and set the tone, then things will feel really different, first or last I'm a fan of. DAVID: Really not trying to sell things, but I'll do this for you. I really do think if you folks, listeners, if you haven't read The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, I would recommend it, it's $25 list, and there's also an electronic version of it. I think it's one of those books that just has a really long life, because it's perennial, there's some core very human points in the book that you can just read and reread, and it's a great book. It's the second-best book that I know of at the moment, but it's a good book. BLAIR: It's success is due entirely to its publisher. DAVID: Yes, that's right. BLAIR: Thank you very much. DAVID: Thank you Blair. BLAIR: Thanks, David.   

Blair Enns is on a mission to change the way creative services are bought and sold. At his company, Win Without Pitching, he offers sales training and coaching to creative professionals + shares his wisdom in his Win Without Pitching Manifesto. Blair teaches pricing strategies, such as how to raise prices in order to attract more clients and how putting prices on your website will actually drive potential customers away. He is also the co-host, along with David C. Baker, of the 2Bobs podcast, a show focused on creative entrepreneurship. In this episode, Blair and I discuss various marketing strategies in his Win Without Pitching Manifesto and how to implement them in your business. Resources Mentioned Win Without Pitching website Win Without Pitching Pricing Creativity Win Without Pitching Manifesto Sponsors Gifyyy Booth Freedom Edits -   I have covered your first order…yep, it's FREE.

Lately, I've been getting lots of questions from people who are launching their freelance business. These questions have been around social media strategy, how to design the right website, and whether the logo looks right… In theory these are all great questions, but they are not the questions to be asking as a freelancer who is looking to scale for REAL income. In this episode, I'm diving deep into why you need focus as a freelancer. I'm going to talk about how to find your focus and structure your activities so that you remain focused.   In This Episode You Will Learn: Why focus is so important as a freelancer How to identify which tasks you need to stop doing and which tasks you need to start doing in your business Why business development and your services are the lifeblood of your freelance business + how to get back to those activities Resources:   Win Without Pitching Manifesto: https://www.amazon.com/Win-Without-Pitching-Manifesto/dp/1605440043   Web Page: http://avanimiriyala.com/focus   Check out my website at http://avanimiriyala.com. Follow me on social media @AvaniMiriyala – can't wait to hang out with you there!  

Today we speak with the author of 2 books, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, and his latest book, Pricing Creativity. He's one of the world's leading experts on pricing for creative professionals. His name is Blair Enns, and in our conversation today you'll discover: Why you shouldn't send a written proposal (and what to do instead) What Blair means when he says you should price the client and not the job Blair's 6 rules for pricing services Register for the FREE Firm Freedom Formula Online Training: https://www.businessofarchitecture.com/freedomwebinar Get access to the 4-part firm profit map here: http://freearchitectgift.com

In Blairtopia, time is a thief. Blair Enns, CEO of Win Without Pitching, and author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour, is out to create a more utopian state. One where firms win without pitching, get paid for the value they create and let time go. The pricing debate—time versus value—can be polarizing. Yes, there's truth in the notion that experts should be paid more, and creativity is worth more than hours spent. But how do you price value that hasn't been created yet, and what do you do if that value never materializes, or worse, causes things to go south? Tune in for Blair's take on mastering the value conversation, three levels of financial success for creative and marketing firms and how agencies can leave time behind to change the very nature of their firms.

David and Blair compare each other's competitiveness, and then offer some specific ways principals can actually collaborate with their competitors as a part of building beneficial business relationships.   TRANSCRIPT BLAIR: David, today we're going to talk about how to crush your competition, is that right? DAVID: Instantly I got very excited about the concept, that's really not what we're going to talk about, but I love that idea. Oh my God, I'm just too competitive, but that's actually the opposite of what we're going to talk about I think, unless you want to switch it at the last minute. BLAIR: No, I was with a bunch of guys the other night, and had this little men's night retreat thing, and maybe more than half of them were entrepreneurs. One guy was winding down a business, and he was saying, "I'm not sure if I'm competitive enough to be in business." I didn't say anything, but I thought, I suppose that's vital for you to be competitive in your nature to succeed in business, would you agree with that? DAVID: Yes, I would, but there's something wrapped around competitiveness that is just as important to me, and that's risk-taking. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: It does seem like the two of those are related, that's why I quit doing a few things outside of work, because I realized I was not as competitive as some of the young fools that were willing to sacrifice their body, and I wasn't. It's not that my body is so precious, it shouldn't be sacrificed, it was more I was allergic to the pain. Yeah, there's something about competitiveness and risk-taking yeah, for sure. I'm competitive, do you think of yourself as competitive? BLAIR: I've measured my competitiveness and your competitiveness, and you're more competitive than I am. I'm as competitive as the average person, but the makeup of that competitiveness is a little bit skewed. You can break down competitiveness into different forms, so I think of myself as average competitiveness. DAVID: Okay, this is more about how do we tame or tamp down some of our competitiveness for our advantage, and for the advantage of the world really. BLAIR: You really want to talk about this idea of collaborating with your competitors, is that correct? DAVID: Right, yeah, and it's something I've learned in my own business life, but I've also tried to coach my clients to do it as well. It's been really interesting, it's a concept that strikes us like, did he really just say you should be more collaborative with your competitors, or did I mishear him? No, that's really what I mean. BLAIR: Okay, so we think of being in business just like my friend said the other night, we think of it as business is highly competitive, and we need to be cutthroat, and we need to always have an eye on our competition. We're trying to best them, I'm fond of saying that positioning is an act of relativity. You position relative to your competition, and in endeavoring to position your firm against your competition, you're trying to kill them. BLAIR: Now that's an overstatement, but that's the prevailing view, right? The competitors are there, people that ... It's your job to beat, it's your job to win against them, and you want to fly in the face of that a little bit, so where did this idea come from? DAVID: Well it's been rooted really in 20 plus years. I did something a little crazy back in the late 90s. I wanted to start an event, and that was obvious to me, I wanted to start an event. Okay, so what kind of an event would it be? Well it needs to be an event that's going to attract a lot of people. How do we do that? Well, the content has to be fantastic, it's like okay, then I just stopped in my tracks, because I'm thinking, well if the content's going to be great, then I've got to invite a lot of my competitors there. DAVID: We don't see eye to eye on everything, but I need to have them there, because they're very smart. People are going to come and want to hear from them as well, like what kind of a stupid conference would it be where I'm the only one speaking? That's not a conference, that's like your own personal platform. I was faced with a decision, do I really want to give my competitors a platform? DAVID: I was nervous about it, other people were a lot more nervous about it than I was, they thought I was crazy to be doing that. I thought, this is a worthwhile experiment, and maybe there's some value in being the person who organizes the conference, and does the programming for it. There turned out to be that value, but it was a wonderful experience. It opened up my eyes entirely to the fact that I don't have to make somebody else lose in order for me to win. DAVID: That I can let my guard down, and it actually translated into the way I run events now. People come to an event for the first time, and they're surprised that within about an hour, an hour and a half of the start of the event, people are starting to share stuff that they would not have thought they'd see themselves sharing at the beginning. They're much more transparent about it, and it's just sort of that style that I like to have, it fits with this notion of competitors. DAVID: Recently what struck me, and then I'll shut up for a minute, because I know I'm taking a long time to answer your question. I was listening to the Dan Patrick daily talk radio sports show, and he was talking about interviewing Kobe Bryant one time. They were talking about how do you get yourself up for a game that doesn't really matter? In other words, maybe you're out of the playoffs already, or you know you're going to beat this team, because they're not good. DAVID: What Kobe Bryant said, was at the end of the game, I want my competitor to question why they even got into the sports game. I want them to question why they even became a basketball player, right? I thought, well that's kind of funny, but it's really not the kind of spirit I want as a collaborator. BLAIR: Even when he's playing in a game that they're almost certain to win in, he's still thinking about crushing the spirit of his competitors. DAVID: Right, yeah, what's the point of that? BLAIR: Do you still have a page on your website that lists your competitors? DAVID: I do, right? I do. BLAIR: Am I on there? DAVID: I don't know, I know you don't want to be, so let's just say you're not. BLAIR: Yeah, I think you had me on there, and I called you out, I said, get me off that list. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: I don't know why that is, okay, so you conceived of this idea, this event, and you had a partner in this event, can we name the event? DAVID: Yeah, it's MYOB, Mind Your Own Business. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: The how people, were the financial partners and the marketing partners, and I did the programming. BLAIR: That's where you and I first met in 2003. I reached out to you when I started my business somewhere in 2002, and you invited me to speak at this thing. DAVID: Yeah, and look at how much good has come from that, right? BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: You and I have become friends, we do a podcast together, we share a lot of clients. Here's the biggest thing, I learned so much by having you there. I mean the very first time I heard you speak, I learned so much. It made me such a better advisor, and the same could be said of the other folks, not everybody, but most of the other folks that I invited. It's like, oh wow, it made me a much better advisor by listening to them in that kind of a setting. BLAIR: Let's walk through how somebody can, once they get their head around this idea, how they can put it into practice. First, I can imagine what the objections are, right? When you're talking to somebody about this idea of be more open to your competitors and collaborative with them, what's the first thing that comes up objection wise? DAVID: Well it comes up a lot too, and it's like, "Oh, that's a good idea, but I can't put that on my website, because what if my competitor's see it?" It may be something like our new focus, that's usually not as big an issue, but things like client criteria, or some unique way we have of going about solving problems for clients, or a case study, or something like that. They envision these competitors in the wee hours of the morning sneaking onto their website and furiously copping things down and grabbing screenshots, and then reinventing their own firm, as if they're really doing that. DAVID: That's the objection, I don't want my competitors to see that. I don't want them to copy me. Do you hear that, or do you see it in other ways? I'm curious if it's just my clients. BLAIR: I'm not sure if I hear it a lot, but I sense it a lot, and I've experienced it myself too. My own experience has been, if you're really carving out a path of leadership in something, it means you're constantly, by the reinventing your business, or coming up with new IP, with new ideas, and by the time somebody's adopted something that you've ... Let's call it stolen, stolen something that you've put on your website and made it their own, you should be somewhere else, right? You should be off into the distance. DAVID: Right, and that's part of your practice, part of my practice, part of what we urge clients to do is to reinvent themselves frequently every couple of years maybe. While this may work beautifully for you now, it's not going to be the thing that you're doing down the road, reinventing. Let's talk about the whole positioning thing, how many competitors does Win Without Pitching have? BLAIR: It really depends on how you frame the question. If you look at sales training for creative professionals, I don't actually know of any other organization that frames their value proposition, the discipline in the market, the combination of discipline in the market that way. That would be ridiculous for me to say there's no direct competitor, so that's at the very narrowest, who else says we just do sales training for creative professionals? DAVID: Right. BLAIR: Our real competition is any new business consultant to the creative professions. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: Anybody who's selling sales training. Most sales trainers aren't specific to a market, so anybody in the sales training business, any new business consultant. DAVID: If somebody popped up, let's say you just heard through a client of yours or something, and they said, "Hey, have you seen [inaudible 00:09:14], it looks a lot like yours?" Pretend that you have this conversation with them, and you look at the website. It is the same positioning, sales training for creative professionals, or creative entrepreneurs, what would your reaction be? BLAIR: My reaction would be, I would gird myself for a fight in the most positive sort of way. I love a challenge, if somebody was using that same language, I would just steel myself and whip my team into a frenzy, and run out into the battlefield. DAVID: I'm picturing this movie scene, yelling to this guy. BLAIR: Yeah, Braveheart. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: Somebody would have to be using very specific language, very specific to me. One of the things that I've seen over the last few years, is when I started my business back in 2002, when I was a new business consultant, there were very few new business consultants. Whoever was out there, the Internet was still a relatively new thing, right? Web browsers were about seven or eight years old in 2002. BLAIR: If there was a lot of competitors out there, I wasn't aware of them, I was really aware of two or three. Nowadays there's rarely a week or a two week period that goes by where I'm not made aware of a new business consultant. I made this conscious decision a couple of years ago to just quit thinking about them as competitors, and just to think about them as my future distribution network. BLAIR: I recently put out a call on LinkedIn saying I want to forge a closer relationship with the world's best new business consultants. I know I met a lot of consultants out there who say, "I give your book, the Win Without Pitching Manifesto to all of my clients." What I said in this post on LinkedIn, I had about 30 inquiries from it, is if you're already preaching the principles, and if you're already teaching the Win Without Pitching way, and you're interested in formalizing the relationship, then reach out to me. BLAIR: I had to see somebody else doing that, and somebody else talk about the benefit of it just the way that you're doing it now. DAVID: Yeah. BLAIR: For me to just have this switch in my mind. You've been very good at this, and you've been a very good role model for me in this, in being a generous competitor, and it hasn't been in my nature. I'm the person who loves a fight, so something has shifted in me in the last couple of years, and I look around at the people I know in business, and some people that you and I both compete with. They are such open, generous, sharing people, even though we are fairly direct competitors. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: I've just decided that these are going to be my role models in that front too. Now, I'm mellowing in my old age or something, because something's definitely changed. DAVID: Yeah, it is really interesting to see. I'm doing an event shortly, and I've invited ... You'll be speaking there, it's really important to me that you speak there to address the whole sales training process. I'm just unqualified to even speak to it, but I feel like the people coming need to hear that. Then, I think four of my competitors will be there. They won't have a platform, but I will introduce them, they're coming for free. DAVID: I invited them, and I plan to put in the work. We're going to split up into groups, and we're going to try to apply these positioning principles to the individual firms. These competitors know what they're doing, and so the evil side of somebody might hear that and say, "Well, wouldn't someone just hire one of these." It's like, well that's fine, because in my mind feeling like you have all these competitors is really misunderstanding the fact that it's not just about what you do, but it's about how you do it. DAVID: I have a very specific style, and whenever I try to cross the line and be somebody that I'm not to a client, like more of a coach or something like that, I am doing a disservice to them, and I'm doing a disservice to me. I find it really wonderful to have these other folks who are very good at what they do, who have a more appropriate style for a certain client. When I think about living in a world where I couldn't recommend other options for my clients, it's a little bit sadder to me, because I do want my clients to get help, even if it's not with me. DAVID: Now what's interesting though, is we have different approaches to this when we're not as busy. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: We tend to be a little bit less generous when our businesses aren't run well, when we don't have a steady stream of opportunity. That's just another argument of 100 arguments to run your firm well, so that you're not paralyzed by not enough work, or thinner margins, or something like that.   BLAIR: I was going to play devils advocate here a little bit, and push back and say, well it's easy for you to be magnanimous this way, you're the worldwide leader in your field. You've got all the work you want, I think most people from the outside looking in would see that, so it's easy for you to just say, "Well there's plenty for everyone." If you're running an independent creative firm, you've got a dozen people, you're not seen as meaningfully different, do you think the principle still applies? DAVID: No, I don't, and I think the solution there is to have a positioning where it's so much clearer to you and to your prospects where you're a perfect fit. If you haven't nailed that positioning equation yet for your firm, then I think this is a very dangerous thing to do, right? Now you could still be generous in some other ways, like you could be generous in sharing contractors with other agencies, or even some employees. In terms of clients, I think that would be a dangerous thing to do, if you haven't ... DAVID: Well, a couple of things, not just positioning, but also having this lead generation process in place. You and I have talked quite a bit about this, how we have a simplified plan that's driven by discipline, so if you don't have the positioning and lead generation in place, then it's a pretty dangerous thing to be this magnanimous. The way to fix that is not to be selfish, the way to fix this is to fix your positioning and lead generation. BLAIR: Do you find that your generosity towards your competitors is returned? Are you referred business or other similar invitations from these competitors? DAVID: In some cases I am for sure. I think about Tim Williams for instance who I think does really good work. I've sent work his way, he's sent work my way for sure. I think about Carl Sachs, I think about the folks at Newfangled. I think about Philip at the Consulting Pipeline podcast. I think about Drew McClellan, I hate mentioning names, because there's going to be a bunch of names I've left off, but in general yes, absolutely. DAVID: Even at the beginning where they're taken aback by the generosity, they'll soften up over a few years, and discover that it's real. I'm really trying to help them, I'm not trying to hurt them. That started years ago, like you write a new book, or you have a new program, tell all your competitors about it in a gracious, respectful way. Hey, this is where I'm headed, just want to let you know, and oh by the way, here's a copy of the book, hope you're doing well. DAVID: You see an article that's really helpful that would benefit them, you send it to them. I tell you, a big one is speaking engagements. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: If I've been on the platform somewhere, and I talk with the program person, I say, "Listen, this was fantastic, I loved this event. I appreciate you inviting me, do you want a couple of suggestions for people who are also would be a really good fit for this?" That's a perfect opportunity to extend that graciousness to one of your competitors. I find that you're not hurting yourself in any way, you're simply helping everybody in the process. DAVID: I've found that to be very effective, and I've had a lot of my competitors do the same for me, where they've introduced me to a speaking opportunity, and it's been very, very much appreciated. BLAIR: A guy I know who does over a million dollars a year in speaking fees said to me, the number one lead source for speaking engagements is other speakers, right? They get approached and say, "Well, I can't do it, but you might want to think of this other person." He said it's important for you to cultivate relationships with these other speakers, and that means you start referring speaking opportunities to them. DAVID: That's interesting. BLAIR: Two weeks later I was invited to speak in Dubai when I was in another part of the world, and I referred to my new friend. DAVID: Yeah, because you didn't want that long travel, yeah, absolutely. BLAIR: Let's talk about some specific ways agency principals can collaborate with their competitors. I think I've got a list here of some things that you've identified. At the top of the list you've got learn how to run your firm from each other. Do you want to unpack ... Oh, I just said the word unpack, do you want to peal that apart? DAVID: That even sounds more pretentious than unpack. BLAIR: Like an orange. DAVID: Let's just say unpack, okay? BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: Yeah, what's the possible benefit in not helping another principal run their firm well? Hoping that they'll fail? Well, that seems pretty evil, right? The one area where it seems like there's the most benefit for everybody, is to learn how to run your business well. You've learned some principles about key metrics you want to look at, or how to hire the right person, or how to run a meeting better, or how to have the best relationship with your bank, or there's 100 things we could list there. DAVID: Those are the kinds of things that I would put at the top the list, because nobody enters this field with the business management training that would really benefit them. They're all starting from some other skill path, not a role path, and so they come into the business, and they have to learn everything either from somebody that they worked for, and often that's the best place to learn it. DAVID: A great example of a principal that you worked for before you started off on your own, or they learn it from maybe an advisor, like a paid advisor, or maybe they learn it from another principal. That would be the first area I would suggest collaboration, it could be informal or formal. I find that most principals have three or four people that they're friendly with, they can just shoot them an email, or get on the phone and say, "Hey, I'm facing this noncompete situation, what have you learned? Can you introduce me to a lawyer?" Something like that. BLAIR: Oh, that's great, including on here help find good employees. I was thinking about there's an agency principal in Australia you and I both know him. I've done a bunch of work with him. He's told me some stories of when he's had to fire people, they don't say fire in Australia or UK, they sack them, which always sounds extra harsh to us in North America. He's told me stories of he'd bring somebody in who isn't working out, and says, "You're not working out, I'm letting you go, but I think you've got great skills in these other areas, so I've lined up two interviews for you today." DAVID: Wow. BLAIR: Yeah, so he's ruthless when it comes to correcting hiring decisions, but he's very kind in how he goes about it, and he recognizes that everybody's got strengths, and he's got good relationships with his competitors. He's very clear about why he's letting that person go, and why he thinks his competitors should think about bringing that person on, and usually in a different role. DAVID: Right, yeah I think that's great, like if it's for the right reasons, there could be something about the style of this firm that wouldn't be true of another firm. It's not like they're a bad person, they're just not a good fit for this particular role. BLAIR: Is there a line that there's the danger of crossing? The first word I wrote down when you sent me notes on this was collusion. DAVID: Yeah. BLAIR: At some point can you get too close to your competitors? Does it cause some sort of problem, or the perception of problems maybe among clients, or maybe even regulators? DAVID: Yeah, well in the US that would fall under the jurisdiction of the FTC, Federal Trade Commission. Where collusion is very clear, and you can get your hand slapped pretty quickly would be around pricing. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: Not so much which opportunities to pursue, although you could get in trouble there, like hey, if I don't pursue this one, can you not pursue that one, that would be collusion. The main area would be on pricing, like how about what's your price on this? There have been some specific lawsuits, the handbook of pricing and ethical guidelines was one example that had to get rewritten, because of a lawsuit as I understand it. DAVID: That strikes me as evil, and I don't think we're talking about that so much. It's more like here's an example, so let's say you're going to respond to an RFP, okay? I know, don't shriek on me here Blair. You're going to respond to an RFP, and you know that another agency has been through an RFP process with them. You might just call them up and say, "Hey, what was that like? Is this even worth it?" Most of the time it's not going to be worth it, but that would not be collusion, that would just be simply sharing public information. BLAIR: I hadn't heard the story around pricing, I was doing a talk on pricing about 18 months ago to an industry group slightly tangential to the creative professions. There was a lawyer in the room, and he kept warning about collusion, he did not like the idea that the competitors were in the same room talking about pricing. I thought he was being ridiculous. DAVID: I think he was being ridiculous, where it can be collusion, is if we're talking about a specific instance. It's not about for instance, the labor law allows you to band together against a common enemy so to speak, that's not collusion. Collusion would be a specific instance related to pricing usually. BLAIR: Gotcha, all right, so let's say somebody's listening to this, and they're warming up to the idea of being more collaborative with their competitors, but they don't currently have relationships with those competitors. How do they go about it? Where do they find these people? Maybe they're so highly specialized, or poorly specialized, they're just not sure who their competitors are, how do you go about it? DAVID: Yeah, if you're poorly positioned, most of your competitors are the ones in your locale geographically. You know those, because they're there, and you share employees, and so on. If you're well-positioned, your competitors are more known to you, even though they're not close to you geographically. These are the names that keep coming up when you are competing for work and so on. DAVID: That would be one way to identify them, obviously Google's our friend here. Another way to identify them, is going to trade conferences. Trade conferences are almost always vertical, or they could be more demographic oriented conferences, horizontal conferences, where you keep seeing the same people there, not so much exhibiting, but you just see them there, they're speaking and so on. DAVID: You notice that these are the folks whose articles are appearing in the same places that yours are, so just connecting with them through your contacts, within a particular focus would be a good way to connect with them. Another might be a common mentor, I get this question a lot, like do you know of somebody that's doing this that I could talk with and so on? I don't connect people who aren't clients of mine, but if they are clients of mine, then I'll try to find somebody to connect them with. DAVID: I actually put round tables together, which are specific attempts to do this, that's not really the subject of this podcast, but that's an example of what a paid advisor might do. Sometimes a common mentor, so like if you're getting advice from an older woman or gentleman in your town who's coaching you on running a good creative business, because they've been in that field, and they've slowed down a little bit, they usually are going to know somebody else that would be a good fit for you. DAVID: I am talking about cooperating with folks who are definitely otherwise competitors of yours. I'm not talking about people that you might meet in a YEO, or YO kind of a context, I'm talking about people that you'd compete with normally. BLAIR: Okay, are there instances where this can go wrong? Obviously, I wouldn't ask you to name names, but I'm sure there has to be situations where you started being magnanimous towards a competitor, and then at some point realized this is a one-way relationship where this person is taking and not giving, and your idea about them ended up changing. DAVID: For sure, yeah, I can think of an attorney actually in New York that I was referring lots of work too, and it turned out that not only did they never share generously, but they kept asking, kept asking, and it became annoying. I just basically shut them down, they still do good work, so I haven't done anything to hurt them at all. If somebody is actually out to hurt me, then we come into the Kobe Bryant crush them phase, which is actually the evil side of this, and it's kind of fun. DAVID: You have to do that once or twice a year, right? Otherwise, I was just wondering if people are still listening at this point. Otherwise, it just doesn't happen, because who are the people that are going to hear the worst things about me as an advisor? It's going to be my competitors, right? If my competitors hear about me, but their experience in working with me is not at all matching, they're going to pause the conversation and say, even just to themselves, you must not be a good client, because that's not how I've experienced him. There's so many advantages here to make this work well. BLAIR: Yeah, it strikes me as this is going sound a bit corny, it's a bit like love though, right? The more you give, the more you get, and the more open you are, and more gracious you are with your competitors, the more likely you are to get back. Even if it's not a full reciprocation, there's still that feeling of you helping others, of yourself worth, etc., it's got to escalate. DAVID: Yeah, for sure, and there are many times when somebody does great work, and you've sent them lots of work, but they're not sending you work. That's okay, because they might be at a different place on the referral chain. In other words, by the time they hear of a client, they're past their need for you, whatever you happen to do along that chain. DAVID: It can't be a tit-for-tat thing, it's really just about surrounding yourself with people who are generous in life in many ways. I find that, that's a very satisfying experience, almost regardless of the outcome. BLAIR: Well, you've convinced me, I'm going to start thinking about maybe referring a piece of business to you. DAVID: Yeah, it's about damn time honestly. BLAIR: Thanks David, this has been great. DAVID: Bye Blair.

Welcome to episode #59! Today we have the founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching, the sales training and coaching organization for creative professionals. He is also the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and the brand new book titled Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. This man has taught me and many thousands of creative people and businesses around the world, on how to build a lucrative client base without having to pitch ideas for free.   Some of the topics we spoke about include: How to best position our value in order to win business How to command the high ground in the client vs creative relationship His approach to proposals His view on retainer clients Rules on pricing creativity and so much more.   If you’re someone who is interested in moving from a vendor position to an expert practitioner position, then this is absolutely for you. I present to you … the sharp and charismatic ... Blair Enns!     More on Blair can be found via the links below: Twitter: @BlairEnns LinkedIn Profile Pricing Creativity Book Win Without Pitching Website Subscribe to The Giant Thinkers Podcast on iTunes.     Read or listen to an entire book in 15 minutes via Blinkist The Blinkist app takes the best non-fiction books and distills them into powerful, made-for-mobile summaries. Essentially, giving you and I the main concepts of an entire book in 15 minutes. Available to read and also to listen to as audio. Head to GiantThinkers.com/Blink to take up the 25% off discount. Start your free trial or get three months off your yearly plan when you join today. The 25% off is automatically applied, when you head to GiantThinkers.com/Blinkist.  

Following the success of the Win Without Pitching Manifesto, Blair Enns’ much anticipated book – Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour was published earlier this year. I’ll admit, I was worried how this transformative approach to pricing would fit into this series, where we explore how we can implement small changes to our […]

Panel: Reuven Lerner Jonathan Stark In this episode of the Freelancer’s Show, Reuven and Jonathan discuss “Free Advice.”   Reuven mentions the importance of how to handle free advice. Jonathan and Reuven talk about their experience with providing consultation to business owners or developers who need direction. When do you provide advice?  How do you get compensated for your wisdom and expertise? How do you do this professionally and make a profit from your insight?  This is a great episode to learn when and how to provide your expertise with a price tag. In particular, we dive pretty deep on:  Jonathan and Reuven do some housekeeping on the upcoming Episode 300! Email jstark@johnathenstark.com about topics of Episode 300 Reuven tells his story on advice. Being a mercenary or profiter Giving rules of thumb and web base advice, or best practice Profit building advice It depends? It is advice quick or will it take long to explain Providing advice on low risk verses high risk Being asked in person, email, or over the web Sending people to a blog or a resource to help them Free options, communities forums, websites, etc Privatise Consulting Blair Enns -  The Win Without Pitching Manifesto Pitch Deck Opposite of sounding desperate Dealing with discount prices Payment plans options And much more! Picks: Jonathan The Win Without Pitching Manifesto I Want You to Give Me One for Free - Mad Men Learn Your Lines Reuven Life360

Panel: Reuven Lerner Jonathan Stark In this episode of the Freelancer’s Show, Reuven and Jonathan discuss “Free Advice.”   Reuven mentions the importance of how to handle free advice. Jonathan and Reuven talk about their experience with providing consultation to business owners or developers who need direction. When do you provide advice?  How do you get compensated for your wisdom and expertise? How do you do this professionally and make a profit from your insight?  This is a great episode to learn when and how to provide your expertise with a price tag. In particular, we dive pretty deep on:  Jonathan and Reuven do some housekeeping on the upcoming Episode 300! Email jstark@johnathenstark.com about topics of Episode 300 Reuven tells his story on advice. Being a mercenary or profiter Giving rules of thumb and web base advice, or best practice Profit building advice It depends? It is advice quick or will it take long to explain Providing advice on low risk verses high risk Being asked in person, email, or over the web Sending people to a blog or a resource to help them Free options, communities forums, websites, etc Privatise Consulting Blair Enns -  The Win Without Pitching Manifesto Pitch Deck Opposite of sounding desperate Dealing with discount prices Payment plans options And much more! Picks: Jonathan The Win Without Pitching Manifesto I Want You to Give Me One for Free - Mad Men Learn Your Lines Reuven Life360

Self-described “recovering consultant” Blair Enns is the CEO of Win Without Pitching, a sales training organization for creative professionals in the design, advertising, and public relations fields. When he wasn’t satisfied with his $400,000 business, he decided to expand it into an organization that now makes exponentially more money that he once thought possible. In this episode, we are talking about ways that you can effectively position yourself as an expert in your field, how to get your expertise recognized, and the danger of productizing your work, as well as what you should be doing instead. Blair has achieved a level of success that many consultants only dream of, and he’s here to share practical ideas on how you, too, can take your consulting business to the next level. Join us to hear solid advice for increasing your revenue from Blair Enns in this episode of The Consulting Success Podcast.   Finding Consulting Success in the Wilderness After finding himself expelled from university, Blair’s lucky break came when he stumbled upon advertising. His boss recognized he had a knack for new business, and just six months into the work, at age 22, Blair was put in charge of business development. He began working with some of the largest ad agencies and some of the smallest design firms in the world. Well-experienced and thick in the work of account management and business development, Blair realized that he wanted something entirely different from the advertising world. In order to realize his dream of raising his family in the backwoods of British Columbia, something had to change. At that point Win Without Pitching was born, and Blair’s success has been realized in a wilderness town of just 900 people. He tells the story of how he decided to relocate to such a remote location, and how he was able to successfully turn his consulting dream into his new reality. Many people believe that success can’t be achieved in a remote location without direct access to clients, but Blair’s success proves them wrong. When he started out, Blair didn’t have access to any clients within hundreds of miles of his remote location. This unique situation forced him to expand his reach. Once he narrowed in on the markets that he was going to serve and strategically positioned himself in their path, the physical distance between them became less of an issue. For Blair, these moves have actually contributed to greater success than he would have experienced otherwise. With the groundwork for his career path laid, we dive into the details of Blair’s success, starting with his collaboration with fellow consultant David Baker.   Should You Share Your Knowledge With Your Competition? It may seem counterintuitive, but sharing your knowledge with other consultants can actually be one of the smartest career moves you can make. Blair and David Baker are both successful creative entrepreneurs who have joined forces to produce the 2Bobs Podcast, in which you can hear conversations on the art of creative entrepreneurship. Although Blair and David are competitors, their collaborations have actually brought them both greater success. Blair lays out the benefits and drawbacks of working with your competition. But before you can consider teaming up with another consultant, you need to examine your own work. If there appears to be very little difference from the work that you offer and the work that your competition offers, you have a significant business problem. Teaming up with another consultant is not going to be helpful for you at all. Positioning and strategy can both set you apart and keep you securely positioned within your area of expertise. While it isn’t a good idea to eliminate all competition, it is in your favor to strategically place yourself separate and above most of your competition. The number one key to deciding whether to collaborate with your competition is whether or not your philosophical ideas line up with them. Blair admits that he doesn’t play quite as nicely with all of his competitors as he does with David Baker, but he also recognizes that they both benefit from their working relationship. Sharing knowledge with each other and collaborating on projects has been mutually beneficial for both of them, as well as for their clients. However, there is a fine line to be drawn when it comes to collaborating with your competition. If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s a good idea or one that will bring your business down, be sure to listen to Blair’s take on it. What’s worked for him will most likely work for you as well, so you won’t want to miss his ideas and checkpoints for the best approach to sharing your knowledge with your competition.   Finding Your Consulting Focus In the Win Without Pitching business model, clientele can be won without doing a “dog and pony” show to prove your worth. There are steps that you can take to differentiate yourself and position yourself in a place where a greater chance of winning business. First — you have to find your focus. Who do you want to be a consultant for? What area are you going to be a consultant on? What are the issues that you want to focus on? If you promise to do everything for everyone, there is no way that you can become an expert in any one given area. In order to become a subject matter expert, it is essential that you narrow your focus. Once your focus is narrowed, your expertise will grow as you are repeatedly faced with similar problems that can be solved with similar solutions. Patterns will emerge and become the basis for your expertise. As you force yourself to narrow your expertise, you will be able to dig deeper and truly set yourself apart from — and above — your competition. Blair shares the classic example of the client who will approach you with no idea of how they should solve a problem that they have never had before. Because of your focus, you will have seen similar problems many times over again and the solution they are seeking will be an easy one for you to identify. This is the essential key to becoming a focused expert in your field — it’s worked for Blair and he guarantees it will work for you, too.   The Challenges of Productizing Your Business If you’ve been in the consulting business for any amount of time, chances are that you have been faced with the challenges of accurately and competitively pricing your work. Blair spent 13 years of his career as a consultant, and more recently, the last five years as a training company, and there is one common mistake that he has seen over and over again. Every consultant struggles to find the best way to price their services. There are two basic approaches to pricing your work — you can either productize or customize the work that you do for each client, and he details both. By productizing your work, you have a fixed set of solutions that you can offer to clients, regardless of what their individual needs are, similar to ordering off of a menu. Customized consulting work offers greater value to your clients and allows you to remain more deeply involved in both the work and the solutions. Your pricing may have shifted in one direction or the other, and you need to ask yourself — are you productizing your services when you really should be customizing the work that you are doing for each client? Most consultants should be in the customized business service. If you find that you’re creeping toward offering your clients a one-size-fits-all product as the solution to their problems, it’s time to correct your business model. For Blair, the decision to switch over to productizing his work came when he realized he was value-pricing most of his highly customized offerings to his clients. He shares the impact that that switch has made on his business, and the success he now enjoys may make you want to consider altering your business model as well.   Secure New Clients Through Your Writing The last step Blair shares to gain greater success in your consulting field, after finding your focus and deciding whether to share your knowledge in collaboration with other consultants, is to become an expertise writer. The most successful consultants are also writers. In order to get your ideas heard, you need to write from a point of view that is beneficially polarizing in your market. Although it’s a harsh truth, there is simply no use for you in a field in which you can’t find a novel way to tackle the problems within it. By finding a point of view that is less common but more beneficial, you will position yourself as the expert that clients need to get their problems solved. The reactions that readers have to your work will increase their trust in you and your ability to help them find the solutions they are seeking. The content in your blog posts, emails, newsletters, and articles will draw potential clients to you. Even more important though, is the fact that the point of view that you share with them will convince them to hire you. Once your perspective separates you from your competition, you have the foundation of a business that will be successful. When you are just starting out, finding clients and getting your ideas out there can seem like a daunting task. In order to get your ideas and content out to new clients, Blair recommends starting with putting all of your marketing chips into one area. Whether it be podcasts, writing books, or social media, find one area that you can focus on, and soon you will be dominating it as the lead expert. For Blair, the area of greatest focus has been his writing. The Win Without Pitching Manifesto was written nearly eight years ago, but he is still seeing the rewards from producing the book today. He offers ideas on how to effectively promote a book and reflects on ways that a book written eight years ago is still benefitting his work today. Blair shares a glimpse into his forthcoming book, Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. The book is available in several formats, including as an ebook and in manual format. You can learn more about the book on his website, as well as sign up for his free newsletter, and learn more about his business philosophies and approach. This episode of The Consulting Success Podcast with Blair Enns is filled with practical ideas on how you can improve your status as an industry expert, starting today.   Key Takeaways: [:17] Welcoming Blair Enns, CEO of Win Without Pitching. [4:47] Growing a business from a remote location. [6:20] The benefits of sharing your knowledge with the competition. [10:50] How finding your focus will increase the demand for your expertise. [14:03] Customizing or productizing your business — which model is best for you? [24:10] You can get new clients by writing from a new point-of-view. [28:47] Ways to effectively share your content. [33:28] All about Blair’s new book, and how you can connect with him.   Mentioned in This Episode: Win Without Pitching 2Bobs Podcast with Blair Enns and David Baker The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, by Blair Enns Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour, by Blair Enns @BlairEnns on Twitter Blair Enns on LinkedIn Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! Here’s How » Join the Consulting Success Community today: consultingsuccess.com

Self-described “recovering consultant” Blair Enns is the CEO of Win Without Pitching, a sales training organization for creative professionals in the design, advertising, and public relations fields. When he wasn’t satisfied with his $400,000 business, he decided to expand it into an organization that now makes exponentially more money that he once thought possible. In this episode, we are talking about ways that you can effectively position yourself as an expert in your field, how to get your expertise recognized, and the danger of productizing your work, as well as what you should be doing instead. Blair has achieved a level of success that many consultants only dream of, and he’s here to share practical ideas on how you, too, can take your consulting business to the next level. Join us to hear solid advice for increasing your revenue from Blair Enns in this episode of The Consulting Success Podcast.   Finding Consulting Success in the Wilderness After finding himself expelled from university, Blair’s lucky break came when he stumbled upon advertising. His boss recognized he had a knack for new business, and just six months into the work, at age 22, Blair was put in charge of business development. He began working with some of the largest ad agencies and some of the smallest design firms in the world. Well-experienced and thick in the work of account management and business development, Blair realized that he wanted something entirely different from the advertising world. In order to realize his dream of raising his family in the backwoods of British Columbia, something had to change. At that point Win Without Pitching was born, and Blair’s success has been realized in a wilderness town of just 900 people. He tells the story of how he decided to relocate to such a remote location, and how he was able to successfully turn his consulting dream into his new reality. Many people believe that success can’t be achieved in a remote location without direct access to clients, but Blair’s success proves them wrong. When he started out, Blair didn’t have access to any clients within hundreds of miles of his remote location. This unique situation forced him to expand his reach. Once he narrowed in on the markets that he was going to serve and strategically positioned himself in their path, the physical distance between them became less of an issue. For Blair, these moves have actually contributed to greater success than he would have experienced otherwise. With the groundwork for his career path laid, we dive into the details of Blair’s success, starting with his collaboration with fellow consultant David Baker.   Should You Share Your Knowledge With Your Competition? It may seem counterintuitive, but sharing your knowledge with other consultants can actually be one of the smartest career moves you can make. Blair and David Baker are both successful creative entrepreneurs who have joined forces to produce the 2Bobs Podcast, in which you can hear conversations on the art of creative entrepreneurship. Although Blair and David are competitors, their collaborations have actually brought them both greater success. Blair lays out the benefits and drawbacks of working with your competition. But before you can consider teaming up with another consultant, you need to examine your own work. If there appears to be very little difference from the work that you offer and the work that your competition offers, you have a significant business problem. Teaming up with another consultant is not going to be helpful for you at all. Positioning and strategy can both set you apart and keep you securely positioned within your area of expertise. While it isn’t a good idea to eliminate all competition, it is in your favor to strategically place yourself separate and above most of your competition. The number one key to deciding whether to collaborate with your competition is whether or not your philosophical ideas line up with them. Blair admits that he doesn’t play quite as nicely with all of his competitors as he does with David Baker, but he also recognizes that they both benefit from their working relationship. Sharing knowledge with each other and collaborating on projects has been mutually beneficial for both of them, as well as for their clients. However, there is a fine line to be drawn when it comes to collaborating with your competition. If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s a good idea or one that will bring your business down, be sure to listen to Blair’s take on it. What’s worked for him will most likely work for you as well, so you won’t want to miss his ideas and checkpoints for the best approach to sharing your knowledge with your competition.   Finding Your Consulting Focus In the Win Without Pitching business model, clientele can be won without doing a “dog and pony” show to prove your worth. There are steps that you can take to differentiate yourself and position yourself in a place where a greater chance of winning business. First — you have to find your focus. Who do you want to be a consultant for? What area are you going to be a consultant on? What are the issues that you want to focus on? If you promise to do everything for everyone, there is no way that you can become an expert in any one given area. In order to become a subject matter expert, it is essential that you narrow your focus. Once your focus is narrowed, your expertise will grow as you are repeatedly faced with similar problems that can be solved with similar solutions. Patterns will emerge and become the basis for your expertise. As you force yourself to narrow your expertise, you will be able to dig deeper and truly set yourself apart from — and above — your competition. Blair shares the classic example of the client who will approach you with no idea of how they should solve a problem that they have never had before. Because of your focus, you will have seen similar problems many times over again and the solution they are seeking will be an easy one for you to identify. This is the essential key to becoming a focused expert in your field — it’s worked for Blair and he guarantees it will work for you, too.   The Challenges of Productizing Your Business If you’ve been in the consulting business for any amount of time, chances are that you have been faced with the challenges of accurately and competitively pricing your work. Blair spent 13 years of his career as a consultant, and more recently, the last five years as a training company, and there is one common mistake that he has seen over and over again. Every consultant struggles to find the best way to price their services. There are two basic approaches to pricing your work — you can either productize or customize the work that you do for each client, and he details both. By productizing your work, you have a fixed set of solutions that you can offer to clients, regardless of what their individual needs are, similar to ordering off of a menu. Customized consulting work offers greater value to your clients and allows you to remain more deeply involved in both the work and the solutions. Your pricing may have shifted in one direction or the other, and you need to ask yourself — are you productizing your services when you really should be customizing the work that you are doing for each client? Most consultants should be in the customized business service. If you find that you’re creeping toward offering your clients a one-size-fits-all product as the solution to their problems, it’s time to correct your business model. For Blair, the decision to switch over to productizing his work came when he realized he was value-pricing most of his highly customized offerings to his clients. He shares the impact that that switch has made on his business, and the success he now enjoys may make you want to consider altering your business model as well.   Secure New Clients Through Your Writing The last step Blair shares to gain greater success in your consulting field, after finding your focus and deciding whether to share your knowledge in collaboration with other consultants, is to become an expertise writer. The most successful consultants are also writers. In order to get your ideas heard, you need to write from a point of view that is beneficially polarizing in your market. Although it’s a harsh truth, there is simply no use for you in a field in which you can’t find a novel way to tackle the problems within it. By finding a point of view that is less common but more beneficial, you will position yourself as the expert that clients need to get their problems solved. The reactions that readers have to your work will increase their trust in you and your ability to help them find the solutions they are seeking. The content in your blog posts, emails, newsletters, and articles will draw potential clients to you. Even more important though, is the fact that the point of view that you share with them will convince them to hire you. Once your perspective separates you from your competition, you have the foundation of a business that will be successful. When you are just starting out, finding clients and getting your ideas out there can seem like a daunting task. In order to get your ideas and content out to new clients, Blair recommends starting with putting all of your marketing chips into one area. Whether it be podcasts, writing books, or social media, find one area that you can focus on, and soon you will be dominating it as the lead expert. For Blair, the area of greatest focus has been his writing. The Win Without Pitching Manifesto was written nearly eight years ago, but he is still seeing the rewards from producing the book today. He offers ideas on how to effectively promote a book and reflects on ways that a book written eight years ago is still benefitting his work today. Blair shares a glimpse into his forthcoming book, Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. The book is available in several formats, including as an ebook and in manual format. You can learn more about the book on his website, as well as sign up for his free newsletter, and learn more about his business philosophies and approach. This episode of The Consulting Success Podcast with Blair Enns is filled with practical ideas on how you can improve your status as an industry expert, starting today.   Key Takeaways: [:17] Welcoming Blair Enns, CEO of Win Without Pitching. [4:47] Growing a business from a remote location. [6:20] The benefits of sharing your knowledge with the competition. [10:50] How finding your focus will increase the demand for your expertise. [14:03] Customizing or productizing your business — which model is best for you? [24:10] You can get new clients by writing from a new point-of-view. [28:47] Ways to effectively share your content. [33:28] All about Blair’s new book, and how you can connect with him.   Mentioned in This Episode: Win Without Pitching 2Bobs Podcast with Blair Enns and David Baker The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, by Blair Enns Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour, by Blair Enns @BlairEnns on Twitter Blair Enns on LinkedIn Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! Here’s How » Join the Consulting Success Community today: consultingsuccess.com

Self-described “recovering consultant” Blair Enns is the CEO of Win Without Pitching, a sales training organization for creative professionals in the design, advertising, and public relations fields. When he wasn’t satisfied with his $400,000 business, he decided to expand it into an organization that now makes exponentially more money that he once thought possible. In this episode, we are talking about ways that you can effectively position yourself as an expert in your field, how to get your expertise recognized, and the danger of productizing your work, as well as what you should be doing instead. Blair has achieved a level of success that many consultants only dream of, and he’s here to share practical ideas on how you, too, can take your consulting business to the next level. Join us to hear solid advice for increasing your revenue from Blair Enns in this episode of The Consulting Success Podcast.   Finding Consulting Success in the Wilderness After finding himself expelled from university, Blair’s lucky break came when he stumbled upon advertising. His boss recognized he had a knack for new business, and just six months into the work, at age 22, Blair was put in charge of business development. He began working with some of the largest ad agencies and some of the smallest design firms in the world. Well-experienced and thick in the work of account management and business development, Blair realized that he wanted something entirely different from the advertising world. In order to realize his dream of raising his family in the backwoods of British Columbia, something had to change. At that point Win Without Pitching was born, and Blair’s success has been realized in a wilderness town of just 900 people. He tells the story of how he decided to relocate to such a remote location, and how he was able to successfully turn his consulting dream into his new reality. Many people believe that success can’t be achieved in a remote location without direct access to clients, but Blair’s success proves them wrong. When he started out, Blair didn’t have access to any clients within hundreds of miles of his remote location. This unique situation forced him to expand his reach. Once he narrowed in on the markets that he was going to serve and strategically positioned himself in their path, the physical distance between them became less of an issue. For Blair, these moves have actually contributed to greater success than he would have experienced otherwise. With the groundwork for his career path laid, we dive into the details of Blair’s success, starting with his collaboration with fellow consultant David Baker.   Should You Share Your Knowledge With Your Competition? It may seem counterintuitive, but sharing your knowledge with other consultants can actually be one of the smartest career moves you can make. Blair and David Baker are both successful creative entrepreneurs who have joined forces to produce the 2Bobs Podcast, in which you can hear conversations on the art of creative entrepreneurship. Although Blair and David are competitors, their collaborations have actually brought them both greater success. Blair lays out the benefits and drawbacks of working with your competition. But before you can consider teaming up with another consultant, you need to examine your own work. If there appears to be very little difference from the work that you offer and the work that your competition offers, you have a significant business problem. Teaming up with another consultant is not going to be helpful for you at all. Positioning and strategy can both set you apart and keep you securely positioned within your area of expertise. While it isn’t a good idea to eliminate all competition, it is in your favor to strategically place yourself separate and above most of your competition. The number one key to deciding whether to collaborate with your competition is whether or not your philosophical ideas line up with them. Blair admits that he doesn’t play quite as nicely with all of his competitors as he does with David Baker, but he also recognizes that they both benefit from their working relationship. Sharing knowledge with each other and collaborating on projects has been mutually beneficial for both of them, as well as for their clients. However, there is a fine line to be drawn when it comes to collaborating with your competition. If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s a good idea or one that will bring your business down, be sure to listen to Blair’s take on it. What’s worked for him will most likely work for you as well, so you won’t want to miss his ideas and checkpoints for the best approach to sharing your knowledge with your competition.   Finding Your Consulting Focus In the Win Without Pitching business model, clientele can be won without doing a “dog and pony” show to prove your worth. There are steps that you can take to differentiate yourself and position yourself in a place where a greater chance of winning business. First — you have to find your focus. Who do you want to be a consultant for? What area are you going to be a consultant on? What are the issues that you want to focus on? If you promise to do everything for everyone, there is no way that you can become an expert in any one given area. In order to become a subject matter expert, it is essential that you narrow your focus. Once your focus is narrowed, your expertise will grow as you are repeatedly faced with similar problems that can be solved with similar solutions. Patterns will emerge and become the basis for your expertise. As you force yourself to narrow your expertise, you will be able to dig deeper and truly set yourself apart from — and above — your competition. Blair shares the classic example of the client who will approach you with no idea of how they should solve a problem that they have never had before. Because of your focus, you will have seen similar problems many times over again and the solution they are seeking will be an easy one for you to identify. This is the essential key to becoming a focused expert in your field — it’s worked for Blair and he guarantees it will work for you, too.   The Challenges of Productizing Your Business If you’ve been in the consulting business for any amount of time, chances are that you have been faced with the challenges of accurately and competitively pricing your work. Blair spent 13 years of his career as a consultant, and more recently, the last five years as a training company, and there is one common mistake that he has seen over and over again. Every consultant struggles to find the best way to price their services. There are two basic approaches to pricing your work — you can either productize or customize the work that you do for each client, and he details both. By productizing your work, you have a fixed set of solutions that you can offer to clients, regardless of what their individual needs are, similar to ordering off of a menu. Customized consulting work offers greater value to your clients and allows you to remain more deeply involved in both the work and the solutions. Your pricing may have shifted in one direction or the other, and you need to ask yourself — are you productizing your services when you really should be customizing the work that you are doing for each client? Most consultants should be in the customized business service. If you find that you’re creeping toward offering your clients a one-size-fits-all product as the solution to their problems, it’s time to correct your business model. For Blair, the decision to switch over to productizing his work came when he realized he was value-pricing most of his highly customized offerings to his clients. He shares the impact that that switch has made on his business, and the success he now enjoys may make you want to consider altering your business model as well.   Secure New Clients Through Your Writing The last step Blair shares to gain greater success in your consulting field, after finding your focus and deciding whether to share your knowledge in collaboration with other consultants, is to become an expertise writer. The most successful consultants are also writers. In order to get your ideas heard, you need to write from a point of view that is beneficially polarizing in your market. Although it’s a harsh truth, there is simply no use for you in a field in which you can’t find a novel way to tackle the problems within it. By finding a point of view that is less common but more beneficial, you will position yourself as the expert that clients need to get their problems solved. The reactions that readers have to your work will increase their trust in you and your ability to help them find the solutions they are seeking. The content in your blog posts, emails, newsletters, and articles will draw potential clients to you. Even more important though, is the fact that the point of view that you share with them will convince them to hire you. Once your perspective separates you from your competition, you have the foundation of a business that will be successful. When you are just starting out, finding clients and getting your ideas out there can seem like a daunting task. In order to get your ideas and content out to new clients, Blair recommends starting with putting all of your marketing chips into one area. Whether it be podcasts, writing books, or social media, find one area that you can focus on, and soon you will be dominating it as the lead expert. For Blair, the area of greatest focus has been his writing. The Win Without Pitching Manifesto was written nearly eight years ago, but he is still seeing the rewards from producing the book today. He offers ideas on how to effectively promote a book and reflects on ways that a book written eight years ago is still benefitting his work today. Blair shares a glimpse into his forthcoming book, Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. The book is available in several formats, including as an ebook and in manual format. You can learn more about the book on his website, as well as sign up for his free newsletter, and learn more about his business philosophies and approach. This episode of The Consulting Success Podcast with Blair Enns is filled with practical ideas on how you can improve your status as an industry expert, starting today.   Key Takeaways: [:17] Welcoming Blair Enns, CEO of Win Without Pitching. [4:47] Growing a business from a remote location. [6:20] The benefits of sharing your knowledge with the competition. [10:50] How finding your focus will increase the demand for your expertise. [14:03] Customizing or productizing your business — which model is best for you? [24:10] You can get new clients by writing from a new point-of-view. [28:47] Ways to effectively share your content. [33:28] All about Blair’s new book, and how you can connect with him.   Mentioned in This Episode: Win Without Pitching 2Bobs Podcast with Blair Enns and David Baker The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, by Blair Enns Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour, by Blair Enns @BlairEnns on Twitter Blair Enns on LinkedIn Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! Here’s How » Join the Consulting Success Community today: consultingsuccess.com

For the second time, I had the pleasure to have Blair Enns on the show and talk about his new book Pricing Creativity. So much fire and practical advice dropped on this episode of Laroche.fm that you can't miss it! How to price a creative service beyond billable hours, why billing hours are a dead end, why discounting prices is not good, the psychology of value you are selling & creating for your clients and so much more just in one episode. I would listen to this episode twice and then go buy his book for more knowledge as this is changing so many things on how you work, create and sell. Make sure to check the previous episode for more info about Blair's background and his other book Win Without Pitching Manifesto. Listen on Soundcloud: https://goo.gl/5LCKn7 Listen on iTunes: https://goo.gl/Ba2KcJ Episode page: https://www.laroche.fm/home/pricing-creativity-blair-enns About podcast: https://www.laroche.fm/ About Laroche: https://www.laroche.co/ ------- Music: https://soundcloud.com/itsnglmusic

Guest Blair Enns gives us a look behind the scenes of creating his new book Pricing Creativity. Blair's Bio Blair Enns is a 25-year veteran of the business side of the creative professions. In 2002, he launched Win Without Pitching, which has worked with thousands of creative professionals in numerous countries through direct engagements, seminars, workshops & webcasts. Blair is the author of "The Win Without Pitching Manifesto" and the forthcoming "Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour" Links Pricing Creativity Win Without Pitching 2Bobs Podcast Blair on Twitter Blair on LinkedIn Implementing Value Pricing: A Radical Business Model for Professional Firms The Curtis Creek Manifesto Transcript Jonathan: Hello and welcome to The Business of Authority. I'm Jonathan Stark. Rochelle: And I'm Rochelle Moulton. Jonathan: And today, we're very excited to be joined by guest Blair Enns. Blair is the founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching and the author of the Win Without Pitching Manifesto, and the forthcoming Pricing Creativity: Guide To Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. Did I get that right Blair? Blair: You got it right Jonathan thank you. Jonathan: Stressful :-) I am very excited and I [00:00:30] know Rochelle's very excited to have you on the show. We have just a lot in common, I've been following your work for years, we've read a lot of the same authors and we're super excited to talk about how you've taken this big idea, which to me started with the Manifesto, perhaps it had its roots before that, and turned it into a consulting business and then later a training business, and now hopefully, fingers crossed, a bestselling author. So, could we start off by just [00:01:00] giving folks a little bit of background about who you are and what you do now and then we can sort of delve into the history? Blair: Yeah, sure. And thank you to both of you for having me on the podcast. I'm really looking forward to this and happy to be here. My name is Blair Ends, the company is Win Without Pitching and I founded it back in 2002, early 2002. At the time, it was a consulting practice, a new business development, sales or new business development consulting to creative [00:01:30] firms, typically independent creative firms, and I had come out of about a dozen years of working in advertising agencies and design firms and thought I'd launch this consulting practice. So that was the first iteration of Win Without Pitching. And then over the years, beginning in late 2012, and I'm sure we'll get into this, I decided to shift the structure of the company from a solo consulting practice to a training company. So that's where we are now in late 2017, [00:02:00] early 2018. Win Without Pitching is about five years into its current incarnation as a training company. And for a few years; 2013, 14, it was both as I kind of played with training and had to make a decision about going one way or the other. So we've been a pure training company for about three years. It really feels like this business is about three years old, but really it's more like 16. Jonathan: Wow. And [00:02:30] before that, you were from the agency world, you were inside the agency world, yes? Blair: Yeah, I worked for some of the world's largest advertising agencies and some of its smallest design firms. I was a suit, I don't own a suit anymore. Although my latest social media profile pic has me in a suit. I had a borrow a tie from my 18 year old son for that photo and I own one jacket. But I was a suit for many years and then I moved to this little mountain [00:03:00] village in the middle of nowhere where we live now when I started the consulting practice. So there's this kind of shift in the personal life that was the impetus for the business change. And I had a Hugo Boss bonfire when I moved out here, got rid of all the suits. But I was a suit doing account services and new business at a very young age in the first ad agency I ever worked. When at I was 22, I was handed responsibility for new business. I wasn't great at it but I did have some natural skills at [00:03:30] it. So yeah, I came out of the account management and new business side of both advertising and design. Jonathan: Okay. So, how do you go from there to writing the Manifesto? Blair: Well, the Manifesto I wrote I think in late 2005, early 2006 so I had been running the consulting business for three or four years at that time. And the name, I think the of the business is kind of a fluke and I've been [00:04:00] told by some of my closest professional friends that, "Yeah, Win Without Pitching is a stupid name, you need to change the name." On some level, I think it is maybe not an appropriate, maybe not the appropriate ... There's something about the name that can sound a little bit schlocky maybe, like some sort of false promise, but on the other hand, that name has driven me to ... It's really a great label for how I've always thought about new business, [00:04:30] and it's forced me to come at the subject matter from that perspective that is really true to me. And I think that's really been the difference, whether it's been a consulting practice or a training company or a book that I've written, i's always coming from that win without pitching perspective. So the name came first, the business came first. And then in, I think it was, yeah, it was late 2005, I think early 2006, where I [00:05:00] was writing a piece. I've published an article, a blog post for years, for 16 years, either somewhere between weekly and monthly. And at the time, I think I was publishing closer to monthly. And I wanted something for the end of the year. So I tried on, I had this idea of like just wrapping up all of my philosophy into a few short pithy statements. And I was also trying on tone of voice. I'm a huge fan of Manifestos, [00:05:30] and I kind of collect them and I've read most of the big ones. I think the biggest, most important book ever written and religious people will be horrified at this, I think the most important book ever written might be the Curtis Creek Manifesto. And I won't say anything more about that, people can go look at it and think, "Huh? What are you talking abut?" Order it, give it to every 12 year old you know and you'll change the world. I was writing a blog post and it was trying on [00:06:00] a new voice, I was trying on a Manifesto voice. And at the time, and even for a few years after, it was the riskiest thing I'd ever written, just because the tone was so different. And I thought it was going to be taken as too over the top. Like it's almost the biblical [inaudible 00:06:14] We shall, etc. It's 12 proclamations, it's not chapters I imagine Martin Luther nailing something like this to the church door. So I was quite nervous when I hit publish. And then the response was really gratifying and inspiring, [00:06:30] because people were telling me that they had ... some designers that actually typeset it and put it on a poster and actually put it on their wall. And I kept getting feedback like that for a long time. So when it came time to write a book, and if you want to be seen as the expert in your space, then you probably should write a book. And I was feeling the pressure to write a book. But it didn't have a format, it didn't have kind of a narrative structure or I didn't [00:07:00] know ... Otherwise, it would just been a book of lists. And then I thought based on the success of that post, maybe I'm going to frame a book based on this. And I'm so glad I did. I'm really happy with this book, seven and a half years later. I'm surprised to say that I'm still really happy with this book. Jonathan: That's great. To have a shelf life it's that long, there's no reason it couldn't continue to grow. Nothing in it is really dated, it's completely ... Rochelle: [00:07:30] It's evergreen. Blair: Yeah. I set out to write a timeless book. And my intention for the book was I would create something that would outlive me. And so, there is nothing in it, as both of you point out, it's kind of evergreen content, there's nothing in there that will be dated. There's nothing about the design, the design looks like it was like dug up from a lock box and it could be from any time. In fact, one of the first things I did with this book, once I decided on the fact that it would be a Manifesto, is I [00:08:00] had to decide what size would it be. So I took a bunch of different books that I owned and ... I just had a sense of how the size of the book, so I took something that was the right thickness, but it was too large a format, and I cut it down. And I said, "I want the book to be this size." And this isn't the way books ... So I wrote to the size because I wanted a designer, somebody who maybe doesn't do a lot of in-depth reading, I wanted them to be able to read it on a typical plane ride; like on a two hour plane ride. I wanted [00:08:30] it to fit into a purse, into a laptop bag, on a toilet tank. And then so once I got the physical, I had the structure, this 12 proclamations Manifesto structure. And then I had the size, and then I hired a designer who when he's not doing his day job, he designs typefaces for Bibles. Jonathan: Nice. Blair: Yeah. I thought, "Well, for a creative audience, it either has to be really well designed or it has [00:09:00] to just be all about the words," and I wanted it to be all about the words. And I wanted it to be somebody who is fanatic fanatical about type. So I hired Brian Soy. His firm is called Aspire and it's not book design isn't their day job, but they do. In fact, they're just finishing up my next book, Pricing Creativity. But he's a nut about type. And I remember he came to a seminar I did in Miami Beach years ago, I remember walking down the main drag, is Ocean Drive, I forget, in Miami [00:09:30] Beach. And him just like pointing out all the art deco fonts and thinking ... in all of the hotels and buildings that we were going past. So the rest of us are in this conversation about something else and he's just going crazy over typefaces. Jonathan: Yeah. It's awesome down there for that. And it was a big success. It's how I heard about you. In fact, I know who told me about you, no, I take it back. So this is weird and this is, I think, perhaps [00:10:00] a source of some like infusion earlier, which is that I came across this as a blog post first. A friend of mine was, "Blair Enns, Blair Enns, Blair Enns." And he sent me a link to one of the, I don't remember which one it was, but it was one of the proclamations. And I was like, "Yes, yes, this is good. This guy knows what he's talking about." I didn't even realize for a long time that it was bound in any form. I was like, "Oh, this is just this free online thing," which I believe is still true. I believe people can still read [00:10:30] it online. Blair: You can read the entire book for free at WinWithoutPitching.com. Jonathan: Well, now I want the physical one. I want to feel it, put it on my toilet tank. Blair: Where it Belongs. Yes. Jonathan: So, you launched the book, and people are printing it out on their walls, I would count that as a big success. And I've seen a number of videos of you sort of giving [00:11:00] presentations, which I know came after that time because you reference the Manifesto in the talks. What was that, period? Do you do that anymore? Sounds like you're in a remote area now, so you probably don't. Blair: Yeah. No I do a lot of speaking. In fact, when my next book comes out on January 10th, I've set aside all of 2018 to just travel the world and speak in support of that book. And I didn't have, now that I'm the CEO of a training company and I don't coach or train in our program [00:11:30] anymore. I create curriculum, I work with my team, I take us into the future, I'm in charge of future value creation. I speak and I write. When I was a consultant, I wrote the book and it got me lots of invitations to speak already did pretty good on the speaking front. But it got me a lot of invitations to speak so I did a lot of lectures on the Manifesto around the world. But I was still running a consulting business. And if I'm not consulting then I'm not [00:12:00] sending invoices, and I'm not earning money. I've been fortunate in that I've always been paid well to speak. And what I get paid has increased over the years. I could probably earn a decent living just speaking if I wanted to. But the real money was in consulting. Now we're a training company and I'm not encumbered with that day to day training or operations of the business, I'm free to basically just go and speak, so that's that's a big part of it. And anybody who writes a book, what follows behind [00:12:30] that are a lot of speeches and nowadays a lot of podcasts interviews like this. Jonathan: I imagine it was tough. Well, was it a tough decision to switch from consulting to training or was it, you said you had sort of a shift in where you were living and the bonfire and whatnot. Were you excited to do that or was it scary, was it obvious? Blair: That was the scariest. I look the scariest things that you ever do, at some point soon after you look back on them and think, "Well, that was ... Why was [00:13:00] I so afraid by that?" But picking up our young family and moving to this little village in the middle of nowhere not, not really knowing how we were going to earn a living, that's how Win Without Pitching came to be, it was a necessity. I knew I wanted to kind of get out of the rat race of the city and the advertising profession at the time. Before I left, I was in a horrible job with a difficult boss, I'll say it politely, [00:13:30] and I was ruined for the advertising profession. And then, I was fired from that job, like I engineered my own dismissal, and that's another long story. I thought I would ... And I saw it all building towards a lawsuit. But as I was being relieved of my duties and handed my severance check, I thought, "I'm not going to sue you. I'm never going to see you again." After that I went to work for a really great boss and I was asked to build a satellite office. It had existed [00:14:00] but all the clients had left, to build the satellite office for another creative firm. And that was a great experience that that allowed me to fall in love with the profession again. But I had already decided we were moving to this village in the middle of nowhere, so I told the guy I was working for that I would do it for a year, a year turned into 20 months then I said I had to go. So we moved to this little village in the middle of nowhere and we had a bunch of little kids, we have four children. We had three at the time and the youngest was 6 months old. We had a fourth [00:14:30] a couple of years after moving here. So we were raising a young family and in the early days, Win Without Pitching, it was a lifestyle business. In the summers, it's a beautiful little village we live in on the shore of a 92 mile long lake, home to the largest strain of rainbow trout in the world. It's idyllic, it's as you imagine it. For years, I shared an office with a grizzly bear biologist and a bat biologist. So we really are in this beautiful little mountain village in the mile [00:15:00] of nowhere and it really was a lifestyle business in the early days. And then around 2012, my kids were at a certain age, they no longer really needed dad to be around a lot more and I was working more and more as a consultant. And in November of 2012, I found myself flat on my back with pneumonia in bed for two weeks and it was the fourth time that year that I had gotten some sort of sickness, just run down somewhere. And on three continents. So four times on three continents in one year, I just kind of run myself down as [00:15:30] I was trying to maximize this consulting model. And I had an epiphany while I was kind of recovering, I realized that my business model was trying to kill me, so I'd better kill it first. And that's what I decided to make the shift to. I decided to launch a training program. I recovered and I put together a 13 week training program, sent it out to my market, immediately sold it out. Then did another one, sold that out, did another one sold [00:16:00] that out. So that took me through to 2013. And then for 2014, I strung three programs together into an annual commitment, sold that out. And then I think by 2015 I decided that I couldn't do both. Now, I didn't come to the conclusion that a training business is better than a consulting business. Part of my journey was, I discovered value-based pricing and I realized that the way I was pricing my consulting engagements [00:16:30] and running my consulting engagements was contributing to kind of the stress on my health. I had productized my consulting services. You could do a two day session with me, which would cost X or could be like one day plus a bunch of remote consulting work. I'd package created three or four different packages and I'd put these prices on those packages. And everything I just described violates some of like my new rules of pricing. And I realized as I learned more [00:17:00] about value based pricing, I thought, "Okay. I either need to become a properly value based pricing consultant." By that I mean, I would look at every consulting engagement as a completely blank slate and dive deep into what it is that the client really wanted and how much value I could create, and then craft a really unique engagement that was specific to the client and the value in their situation and the value they were trying to create. So that every engagement would truly [00:17:30] be different and would be priced differently. If I wanted to earn the most money from those engagements, I felt like I needed to be able to say to my clients, "You know what, I'll get on a plane and I'll see the day after tomorrow." Because of where I live, it takes me a day to get anywhere. It sometimes takes me a day to get to an airport. I just couldn't do that. So I felt like if I couldn't properly value price my consulting engagements, then I really needed to go the other way and fully productize [00:18:00] my business. So that's the decision I made. I made the decision to go to a more scalable, productized service business and productized consulting business is a training company. So that's where we are today and it was really driven by the fact that I had kind of maxed out the consulting model the way I was doing it and I was a little bit limited by where I lived. And I felt strongly that I needed to go one way or the other and the easiest way for me to go [00:18:30] would be to go to scale up training company. I was talking to somebody in Austin, Texas about this the other day, somebody who is a consultant, and he was kind of trying on the idea that, well, maybe the evolution of all consulting practices is training companies. And I said, "Man, if I lived in Austin, Texas, I would be a consultant. I would not own a training company. If I had ready access to lots of different creative firms, where I could go in deep and help them more, I'm pretty sure in the short term, in the first five to six years for sure, [00:19:00] I would make way more money and have a bigger impact on a smaller number of clients." But I don't live in Austin, Texas. I live in Kaslo, British Columbia and it makes sense to build a training company. Jonathan: It sounds like, I don't know if this is just because of the compression of time, that we're compressing the timeline, but it sounds like there was a fairly high degree of certainty there based on a series of decisions that you made, particularly about moving, but it seemed like you were pretty clear on what to do, even though there was some fear. Blair: [00:19:30] Yeah I think so. I was doing a live podcast with my podcast cohost. I do a podcast called 2 Bobs. The number 2 Bobs with my friend and colleague David C. Baker, and we doing it live in London two weeks ago and in the Q&A afterwards, we were talking about how different we are from each other. He's very scientific in his approach and he said to me, he said, "You're not afraid of anything." And I thought, "Well, that's not true." But I get these ideas and I just will not be stopped. And I [00:20:00] think I've learned to lean into the fear. And if you know anything as you do about my selling approach, if there's anything uncomfortable in the sale, we teach well, lean into it, go into the dark places, embrace the awkward silence, say the things that the client won't say, the things that most people in that situation would not bring up. It's your job to bring it up. So I think I've learned that when you get these crazy ideas, lean [00:20:30] into them. As an example, I was a couple of years into both offering a training program and I was still consulting. And I was on a plane I was flying to Dallas and I, for whatever reason I decided, "This is my last. I need to pick one one or the other." I knew it was going to be training and I knew at some point it had to no longer consult. So I decided on the plane, "This is my last client." I walked into my client's office the next morning and one of the first things I said is, "I want [00:21:00] you to know this is my last client." And then I went on the plane on the way home I wrote a lengthy blog post called, I think it's called I'm Out. And I said to the world and nobody reads my blog because they want to know what I'm up to, they read it for the guidance. But every once in a while ... So I just published it for me. I wanted to make a proclamation to the world that that's it, I'm out of the consulting business. I'm not doing this anymore. Because I knew if I didn't say [00:21:30] it publicly, then I would probably start doing consulting again. So that's kind of the way I tend to operate, I come up with this idea and then I make this public declaration about what I'm going to do and then I think, "Oh crap, well, I guess I have to do it." Jonathan: Absolutely. You mentioned a couple of times Pricing Creativity, the new book. I have that thing highlighted to death. And I'm very much looking forward to talking to you about the pricing [00:22:00] details or the tools and the techniques that you talked about in there on my pricing podcast; Ditching Hourly. What appears about, in this context is what was your whole thought process about why to do this book, what your plans are for it, is this for you a 150, 200 page business card or is this something you actually want to see on bestseller lists as like an income stream. What are you thinking about there? Blair: Yeah. That's [00:22:30] a great question and I've found myself into some really great conversations about this. The Manifesto is the oversized business card. I refer to it as the Yes You Can book. I want people to read it, put it down. And as an early reader said in a review or somewhere online, he said, "I finished that book and it just makes me want to go wrestle a bear." So I use that line a lot. I want you to go feel like you can go wrestle a bear after that book. There's not a lot of how to end it. It meets a Manifesto, it's not meant to be a how to. [00:23:00] And the pricing book is a 50 ... so the Manifesto is just under 24,000 words, the pricing book is a 57,000 word manual. I wrote it as a manual, it's published as a three ring binder. There are different formats, you can get the ebook, you can get the ebook in the binder, you can get the ebook binder and four hours of video support. But I really wrote it to be like a desk reference, where you would read it once through, I hope it's enjoyable enough, that you can read [00:23:30] most of it through. And then, after that, when it comes time to put together your next proposal, price out your next proposal. I want people to reach out onto the shelf, pull it out, remind themselves of some of the rules and some of the tips, and then flip to the tool section at the back, and use those tools to actually craft their proposal. My vision is, this book will be on the desk or shelf of every creative professional in the world, who is charged with setting or negotiating [00:24:00] price. That is my vision. And I could have published it through a few different mainstream publishers. The Manifesto has generated a lot of interest for me from mainstream publishers, I could have published it that way. But it occurred to me, I'm looking at a bookshelf filled with about 25 books on pricing, and then probably another 25 on economics, most of them behavioral economics. I own all the books on pricing, and some of them have been so [00:24:30] transformative. Ron Baker has been such an positive influence on me on pricing. And the impact he's had on the professional world through his two books on pricing has been phenomenal. But I look at Ron's books and I think, "He should have made millions of dollars with these books." I know he's built a really lucrative career as a speaker, and I don't know if he does consulting or not, but as an author and a speaker, he has built a really good career. So it's not like he's not well rewarded, but I kind of value [00:25:00] conversation with the Global Creative Community without them knowing it, about the impact and value of this book. And I did some quick math and I thought, "I think I can sell between six and 10,000 copies of this book, which is a really big number given the audience and given what I'm charging for it. But I think over seven or eight years I kind of see ... Because I think it'll be bought in bulk and multiple copies from larger firms. I can see it [00:25:30] affecting the bottom line of 2,000 firms, I did the math. Okay, 2,000 firms, let's say, an average size of a million dollars, that's two billion dollars in revenue. I think and I know from anecdotal experience, that this is conservative. I think that the average firm that reads and implements this, can add at least 5% to their bottom line. If you're a million dollar firm, I fully expect that there's no reason why you can't add an extra $50,000 [00:26:00] in profit. And I've talked to Creative Principles to whom I have given pricing advice through our program, and where we just touch on it tangentially in our training program. The profit increase stories just from some of these pricing principles, are just, tenfold increase in profit, I've heard that a lot, doubled profit, tripled profit. I think adding a 5% increase that essentially represents [00:26:30] a 50% increase in most firms. Anyway, that adds up to like 100 million dollars per year, in additional profit for 2,000 smallish creative firms. If I were working as a consultant and these 2,000 firms were just one business, and I said to that business owner, "Listen, I'm pretty confident that I can add $100 million a year to your bottom line." What do you think fair compensation for me as a consultant [00:27:00] would be? The answer would be in the millions of dollars, right? Jonathan: Absolutely. Blair: But there's something about the package that is a book that says, "Well, it doesn't matter if you add hundreds of millions of dollars to the bottom line, if you sell it the traditional way, books should cost between 20 and $40, then you're only going to make so much money." Well, that's ridiculous. So, this book is not sold, it's not available on Amazon, it's only available on our website, Winwithoutpitching.com, go to Pricingcreativity.com, and you'll be redirected. [00:27:30] And it's the first pricing book in the world that is priced based on the principles in the book. When there are three different options, I'm not going to give away too much here, but it starts at $320 a copy. And then there's a $199 version. There's a $100 version. Each of those is fully guaranteed, if you buy at any level. And if it doesn't work for you for whatever reason, sent it back to us, we'll send your money back, no questions asked. So, it's fully guaranteed. [00:28:00] And I want people after they buy the book, I want them to go back to the pricing page on our website. And I want them to see after they read the book. I want them to see, how many of the pricing principles in the book that I've talked about that we actually used in the pricing of this book. I expect, based on the math that I laid out to you, I expect to earn a million dollars in this book. And I think that's fair for me as an author. If I were a consultant, I would view it as an [00:28:30] unfair price. Jonathan: Too low. Rochelle: So the million dollars, you see that coming directly from the book not from doing speeches around the book, not from doing training around the book, totally from the book? Blair: Yeah. Rochelle: That's incredible. Blair: And I had an author say to me when I was in London, he said, "You know, you don't write a book for the money." Well, sometimes you do. Jonathan: I think sometimes you do, I agree. I've written five or six books now depending on how you count it. And I've done through traditional publishers and [00:29:00] self published. And it's different. I think it's important to decide which way you're going to go before you write it. "What's this book for? Is this a business card? Am I staking out a claim to a particular aspect of authority in the world? Or is this a revenue move?" And I think there can be some overlap. There's certainly overlap in the results, but I think knowing which one you're shooting for before you start the project is pretty important. Blair: I [00:29:30] agree and I think probably too many business authors don't actually spend enough time thinking about what the goal of the book is, and therefore what the right way to publish it is or to market it. Like the purpose of this book is value creation, to create value for others, that's the purpose of it. I'm very happy with The Win Without Pitching manifest. I'm happy with the impact it has had on the global creative profession. And I can extrapolate into the future and imagine the impact that it will have with [00:30:00] the long term, and I'm very proud of that. And I have the same expectations, but in different avenue, same expectations for Pricing Creativity book. I really expect this to be the standard in the global creative firm community for many years. I don't think it's going to be timeless, as timeless as the Manifesto, but I expect it to be the standard, to be on people's shelves, and more than the Manifesto, which gets people inspired and gets them believing that there [00:30:30] is another way. This is really the here's how to take those principles and the Manifesto and turn them into real income, real profit for you and your firm. So, yeah, the oversized business card is out there, this is the thing meant to follow up on that, to drive more value creation and obviously, create value for me the author. Jonathan: I totally agree with that. I think the Manifesto was a rallying cry and Pricing Creativity is more of a [00:31:00] playbook, or it's funny that you chose the physical format that you did, because it does remind me of old time software manuals or cookbooks, or it earn and I think it also breaks the way you pointed out earlier as a sort of preconceived notion of how much a book costs. And it's like "Well, this one's a little different." You don't even have to believe the value proposition of the book necessarily, you just look at it and you're like, "Okay, this is different. This is not your regular business book." Blair: If you think of [00:31:30] the training that we sell, so we sell a term of training for anywhere between 2,000 and $15,000, depending on how it's delivered, but the content is essentially the same. And when I started writing this book, for the longest time I thought there was going to be a training program version of it. If you buy the ebook, the manual, which has the added tool section in it, and an advance review copy that you've read Jonathan, doesn't have that tool section in it, but the manual [00:32:00] has it. And then four hours of supporting video around it, you're essentially buying training, so it looks like an expensive book, but it's actually cheap training. And so, we've decided we're not at least for the next year or so, we're not building training around them, around pricing. Our training continues to be around selling, selling The Win Without Pitching Way. We also have some stuff on positioning and regeneration, but we're really a sales training organization. So, this is really deeply discounted training on pricing. [00:32:30] If you look at it that way, it's cheap. If you look at it as a book, and some people will look at it as a book and be outraged at the price, it's expensive. Rochelle: But it's this wonderful integration of the idea of a book in an online course. A lot of people are complaining about online courses now, because you're not getting enough deep content. And I like how you put both of them together here. Blair: Thank you. Even our training program we go out of the way to say it's not an online course. This is [00:33:00] coach led training in classrooms, our coaches have more than 10 years of experience of selling The Win Without Pitching Way, because they were clients of mine more than 10 years ago and have 10 years ... So, and I have nothing against online courses, they are just a lot of them out there, and if you put something into the package of an online course, the price drops. It's like an online courses now, it's now encumbered by the same kind of the limitations of the package as a book is, if you buy [00:33:30] a book on Amazon. So, we're trying to break that paradigm too. Jonathan: It's fascinating, I could talk about pricing all day of course. I think you mentioned the 25 pricing books on your bookshelf, I think I have the same because ... In Pricing Creativity, the first section, I'm not sure, I think you had a different name for it, but the first sort of region of the book is, for people who are maybe considering buying it, it is like a crash course [00:34:00] in the best books on pricing that are out there. And you sort of skim across the service and pull up things that are important to this specific kind of reader, which I think is critical because I can't think of any of the pricing books, even implementing value pricing. None of them really speak down to a tactical level to a particular kind of profession. I find when teaching people some of these, let's be honest, these are pretty abstract concepts, [00:34:30] very, very intangible and tough to believe. There are like an optical illusions almost. And when people are new to these ideas, they need someone, the first couple of times at least, they need someone to be like, "No, no, go like this." And that, go like this, whatever it is, is different from vertical to vertical or it can be. This is why, I think for the right kind of reader, someone running an ad agency for example, or creative or design [00:35:00] agency, it's very, very actionable, which I think is going to earn a place on the desk of ... Like you said, I wouldn't be surprised if this was on the desk of every creative owner across the world. Blair: Certainly, we're not going to hit everyone, but that is my intent. And again, I'm traveling in support of that and I appreciate your point of view on the book, because you've identified what I've really tried to do in that first section, which [00:35:30] is called Principles. I really I'm trying to bubble up like the best of pricing theory from most of the books. And a lot of the best pricing books are heavy in theory and a little bit difficult on the application. Ron Baker's Implementing Value Pricing, I'm much a fan of his. Not only the knowledge, I've never met Ron, but we've corresponded. He just absorbs, his capacity to absorb and synthesize information is awesome, [00:36:00] and he's also an excellent writer. I would read anything that he's written, but when I read Implementing Value Pricing, which is his second book after Pricing On Purpose or Pricing and Purpose is the theory, Implementing Value Pricing basically builds on that. You can just read his second book and skip the first one, because he does kind of a recap of all the principles. And he gets into some great stuff, even some level of detail on implementation that I don't. But it is as I read those, a friend of mine said and I talk about this in the book, he [00:36:30] said, "You should write a book on pricing." and I said, "Oh man, there are some great books on pricing, the world doesn't need another one." He said, "Well, your clients aren't going to read those books." He's right. The owners of the typical creative firms, especially people who see themselves as creative first, and kind of price or sales people, business people second, they're not going to read those books. I needed to deliver the principles in a very interesting way, not go too deep into it, and then get right to [00:37:00] do this. So, the next section is, rules, six different rules, six things you always do when you're pricing. And then the section after that is the lengthier section, it's the tips and that's meant to be specific situation, specific guidance for a specific situation. Crafting your high priced options, crafting your low price options, making the margin in the middle. Dealing with retainers, final negotiations with procurement etc, etc. I imagine people read the first two sections and then when it comes time to craft their proposal, they'll go to the back, [00:37:30] the tools section has a quick review of the rules, and then they'll flip to the section in the tools, to get the specific nugget for the thing that they're building for that one client. So, yeah, that's how I've tried to write the book, and also I come from the world of sales. The reason, I talk about this in the book, the reason value based pricing fails in most creative firms, in fact most professional firms, it breaks down at the value conversation. And that's where the theory [00:38:00] of pricing meets the actual reality of selling. I know from my own experience, you cannot become an effective pricer, if you do not at the same time work on your skills as a salesperson. The third one would be negotiating, so selling, pricing and negotiating, it's really hard to be good at pricing if you do not also tackle selling and negotiating. And that's one of the perspectives [00:38:30] that I tried to bring to the book. Jonathan: Definitely, definitely it comes through. So, we're going to hug it out here. I think it's a great book, I think people who are in this space, it's going to be worth every penny. We're running a little long on time, so what I'd like to do is, ask you what might be kind of a hard question, I know this is really big on your radar right now, but I'm wondering, what do you see beyond this? And the reason I ask is [00:39:00] because you have an amazing post, I think it's called No Exit or No Exit is in the title about, never retiring. And how that changes your focus about the business and all of that. So, I'm wondering have you had that sort of head space to even think beyond this at all, Does this still fit into that public declaration? Blair: Yeah. So the post is called A Mission With No Exit, and that's when I realized from a couple of different sources that, and just seeing in my own clients [00:39:30] what the pattern that I saw is, when you get to a certain age like 55-ish, in some principles, maybe a little earlier, maybe a little bit later, but certainly, by the time somebody is nearing 60, they quit making brave decisions in their business. And it's because they have one eye on the exit, and I realized there are few things that damage a business more than the principle of starting to kind of slowly extricate herself from the business. And I just saw this pattern over and over again, and then this is an [00:40:00] idea I first heard from Dan Sullivan, the founder of Strategic Coach, a coaching organization. I have been in for my own professional development and will be in again, I'm not currently in it right now. But early on in their program, they just disabuse you of this idea, that you're ever going to retire, and the rallying cry is effectively die with your boots on. So, I bought into that early on, and also the idea that you'd never sell. Like you come from the software space, and where in the design world, the design world [00:40:30] is changing so fast these days, because the worlds of design, business consulting and software engineering are all coming together. And look, we don't even have agreed on what the names for this is right, now but it's a really exciting time. But one of the things that's going on, is the design is taking a lot of its cues from tech these days, and in Silicon Valley and the tech world, you see a lot of like spinning up and exiting businesses. I' not going to try to make a moral judgment on that other than to say, [00:41:00] that does not appeal to me. But I think that I see some owners of design businesses think that the proper thing to do is like, build this business, spin it up and exit it. And a lot of sales people like to open a sales conversation with the principle of the business that they're trying to sell to, with the question, what's your exit. I think it's such an insulting question, the implication that you should have an exit. Because I think if I could take away from our listeners, those who own businesses. [00:41:30] If I could take away from you, your right to retire and your right to sell your business, I guarantee you the implications are, that you would start doing today all of the things that you've been putting off. Including things in your personal life, you would arrive at a work life balance now. You would start taking vacations now, you would make the difficult decisions around positioning your firm, about the clients that you work with, about the people that you work with, about having a strong number two in place so that you can free yourself up to do [00:42:00] the more meaningful things, both in the business and in the life. You would structure your day to day so that you're doing things that you love and you're energized by, rather than kind of wading through these undesirable things, with this crazy idea that there's some sort of payoff for all your sacrifice, that all your sacrifice now will lead to a payoff in the future. That's a dangerous idea, and I would just love to disabuse everybody of that notion. So, I talk about that in the post A Mission With No Exit. I do this talk around it's called the [00:42:30] Five Constraints. That's the first constraint, I'd say, if I could impose this on you I would. So in terms of my business, I've got visibility into years of my business, and my plan is, I have no plans to retire, I have no plans to sell, I plan to die with my boots on. I do recognize I'm 51, I do recognize that once you're 70, I don't know where the age is, where the line is, but at some point, people, the way, the advice that they're likely to [00:43:00] take from you is different. Your role needs to change as you age, I know that. But I have lots after this, so much is after this. I'm so excited about what's after launching and pushing Pricing Creativity out into the world. I could live three lives and I would never be finished with the things that I want to do in this business. Rochelle: Hear, hear. Jonathan: Amen. Well, that's a fabulous place to wrap up, I think. Where can people, where's [00:43:30] the best place for people to find out more about you online, Blair? Blair: I'm at Winwithoutpitching.com, if you go to Priceandcreativity.com, that will take you to a page on the Win Without Pitching website. I'm Blair Enns on Twitter and also LinkedIn. I don't use other social media. For years I've been saying, I'm not convinced I'm going to stay on twitter much longer. But I am on Twitter now and I'm on LinkedIn now. And you can find me at Winwithoutpitching.com, where you can learn more [00:44:00] about the books and the training program. And if you want to reach out, you can do that through the website. Rochelle: Awesome. Jonathan: Very good. Well, dear listener, that is our show for this week. We hope you join us again next week for the Business of Authority. Bye. Rochelle: Bye. Bye.

Watch the video version of the show and full show notes at www.redpandas.com.au/ep75 If you've ever been in the 'reluctant salesperson' position, this will be a truly valuable episode for you. Blair Enns wrote the Win Without Pitching Manifesto and shares a true masterclass on all things sales, tactics, positioning and a whole lot more. https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://www.amazon.com/Win-Without-Pitching-Manifesto/dp/1605440043/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1505053058&sr=1-1&keywords=Win+without+pitching Video & show notes: www.redpandas.com.au/ep75

When most people think of sales, they think about walking into a potential client's office, or calling them up on the phone, and pitching them to convince them that their services are the best. The thought us unpleasant and has prevented many talented freelancers from getting great clients. But the good news is that winning clients does not have to look like that. In fact, approached properly, it doesn't really have to feel like selling. It's more of a diagnostic approach, like going to a doctor to find out the cause of your symptoms. Blair Enns, founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training company for creative entrepreneurs, and author of A Win Without Pitching Manifesto, shares the philosophies behind the idea of winning without pitching and how to actually approach closing deals without feeling like your a sleesy salesperson. https://freelancetransformation.com/episode124

Episode 49: How Caring Leads to SuccessGuest: Anne McCabe Triana My guest this week truly cares about her clients and is an advocate for women in the financial industry. Anne McCabe Triana is a graduate of George Mason University and has been working in the financial industry since 2001. She has worked with organizations like American Express Financial Advisors and UBC and is an independent advisor (owning her own company). Her current venture, Curo Private Wealth is focused on caring and engaging with clients. Anne’s team strive to learn what the concerns are of their client and then move forward from there to create a trusting relationship. Anne is also a huge advocate for women in the financial industry. She feels that women are great financial advisors because they can be innovative in finding clients and then are able to foster strong, nurturing relationships. There is also a lot of flexibility later in the profession so that women with families can manage their own time around their family’s needs. One thing that Anne was told early on in her career was to learn to golf if she wanted to close deals. Very early on, she took golf lessons but at a certain point, she found herself being inauthentic. Even the way she was dressing felt wrong for her. If she could go back and change things, she wouldn’t try to be a “man”. Anne recommends embracing our female qualities because those are strengths as well. For those starting in the profession, Anne recommends finding and becoming committed to a niche and know absolutely everything about it. Anne’s success came from networking, building relationships, referrals and servicing clients as much as possible. Some great books were mentioned in this episode including The Consultant with Pink Hair by Carl Harrison, Win Without Pitching Manifesto by Blair Enns, From Fear to Fearlessness by Pema Chodron, Double Double by Cameron Herold,  Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, and Mastery by Robert Greene. Also, be sure to check out my interview with Kathleen Burns, a woman who has been instrumental in growing the number of women with their CFP designation.  If you’d like to get in touch with Anne, you can do so through Twitter and Facebook. Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of the Women Rocking Wall Street show! If you liked this episode, be sure to hit subscribe, share it with others and write us a quick review on iTunes.  

01:40 - Prepayment, Deposits, Trust, and Risk 14:55 - Pricing a SaaS (Software as a Service) Tier Pricing Grandfather Clauses Beta Test Features Unlocking Features 27:02 - Scope 30:07 - Tier Pricing (Cont’d) The Win Without Pitching Manifesto by Blair Enns 38:49 - What’s a marketing/lead generation channel that’s been successful for you that you hadn’t expected to be successful for your consulting business? Podcasting Speaking Engagements 45:03 - The Get Clients Now Approach The Freelancers' Show Episode #20: Get Clients Now! with C.J. Hayden 46:47 - If you could give yourself two or three bits of advice when you first started out, what would they be? Specialize Book Yourself Solid by Michael Port Charge More Don’t Be Afraid to Make Mistakes 51:03 - Mastermind Groups Picks Pay Your Love First (Eric) The Consulting Pipeline Podcast (Eric) Drip Sherpa (Jonathan) Double Your Freelancing Conference (Jonathan) CodeNewbie Podcast (Chuck) This Is Your Life Podcast (Chuck)

01:40 - Prepayment, Deposits, Trust, and Risk 14:55 - Pricing a SaaS (Software as a Service) Tier Pricing Grandfather Clauses Beta Test Features Unlocking Features 27:02 - Scope 30:07 - Tier Pricing (Cont’d) The Win Without Pitching Manifesto by Blair Enns 38:49 - What’s a marketing/lead generation channel that’s been successful for you that you hadn’t expected to be successful for your consulting business? Podcasting Speaking Engagements 45:03 - The Get Clients Now Approach The Freelancers' Show Episode #20: Get Clients Now! with C.J. Hayden 46:47 - If you could give yourself two or three bits of advice when you first started out, what would they be? Specialize Book Yourself Solid by Michael Port Charge More Don’t Be Afraid to Make Mistakes 51:03 - Mastermind Groups Picks Pay Your Love First (Eric) The Consulting Pipeline Podcast (Eric) Drip Sherpa (Jonathan) Double Your Freelancing Conference (Jonathan) CodeNewbie Podcast (Chuck) This Is Your Life Podcast (Chuck)