Podcast appearances and mentions of David C Baker

Welcome to episode 138. If you're managing client relationships - or leading others who do - this episode is packed with practical advice. I'm joined by David C. Baker, widely regarded as "the expert's expert" in the marketing agency world. David has advised over 1,000 entrepreneurial experts through his consulting firm, Punctuation, which he founded back in 1994. He's the author of 7 books, including the influential "The Business of Expertise" and "Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors," and his latest book “Selling your professional services firm”. His insights have been featured in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal and numerous other publications. As the co-host of the popular "2Bobs" podcast, David regularly shares his expertise on agency management. With decades of experience working with marketing services firms, David brings unparalleled insights into the nuanced relationship between account management and project management - which makes him the perfect guest as we prepare for the third annual Account and Project Management event in Atlanta in September 2025. Here's just a handful of the things we covered: • Why growing the account is the primary role of an account manager - and why order-taking isn't enough (particularly now) • The healthy tension that needs to exist between AMs and PMs - and what happens when one person does both • Why strong account managers read the room - not just run the meeting • How to lead clients without being pushy - and why honesty is your best sales strategy • Practical tips for handovers, managing workload, and setting account managers up for success • And why account managers can - and should - lead the AI conversation within the agency David also shares thoughts on leadership, compensation, and the future of AM in an AI-driven world. If this conversation sparked ideas for how you can grow your client relationships, lead more confidently, and future-proof your role - then imagine what could happen if you gave yourself two days completely focused on it. Join us in Atlanta this 23rd and 24th of September for the AM/PM Conference - the only event created specifically for agency account and project managers. This isn't just another conference. It's where you'll: • Surround yourself with people who get it - fellow AMs and PMs facing the same pressures and expectations you are • Learn practical strategies to retain and grow client accounts, manage tricky situations, and improve delivery - without burning out • Discover exactly how other agencies are using AI to work smarter, automate the boring stuff, and deliver faster, better outcomes • Leave with fresh tools, frameworks, and real-world examples you can put into practice the very next day I'll be there, David C. Baker will be there, and we're also joined by Brett Harned - founder of the Digital PM Summit and author of Project Management for Humans. If you're serious about growing your career and elevating your role - this is where it happens. Visit https://www.punctuation.com for all the details and to grab your spot.

Ignoring any unexpected offers to buy your business that might come your way is not in your best interest. But neither is dating all opportunities in desperation. David has four things principals should consider, whether or not you are actively looking to sell your firm.   Links “Should You Entertain That Offer?” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com 2Bobs London Meet-up on Thursday 8 May, 2025 at 2pm

Episode 252FACULTY: Ron BakerCLASS: #TheGuideScotty's back in the Office with our Principal, Ron Baker, and he has a copy of "The Creative Act: A Way of Being" by Rick Rubin. In this book report, they cover a wide range of topics, including creativity in art and accounting, the quest for efficiency, the role of humor in art, and the importance of paying attention to your surroundings. The conversation also touches on the challenges of being an entrepreneur and artist, the subjective nature of value, and the evolution of an artist's work. This engaging and thought-provoking discussion is a must-listen for anyone interested in creativity, art, or entrepreneurship. Tune in to hear more from Scott and Ron on "The Creative Act" and its many insights.All the Shoutouts:Greg Kyte, CPA, Rick Rubin, Broken Record, Jason Ackerman, CPA, CFP®, CGMA, Times up, Jasper, Conversations with Tyler, South Park, Arthur Schopenhauer, John Wooten, James Clear, Simon Sinek, Tim Williams, Nikole Mackenzie, David C. Baker, Caddyshack, Dave Chappelle, Terrell A Turner, CPA, Kenji Kuramoto, James Ashford, Michelle Weinstein, Tim Ferriss, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Eminem, Paul McCartney, Beatles, Elvis Presley, Sage, Thriveal, The Crux, Momentum Accounting, Inc, Mortimer J. Adler

David thinks principals should build their firms as if they were going to sell it while Blair's advice is to run it as if you'll never sell it. Being aware of options as your firm matures can give you the leverage you might need in negotiations.   Links “Ten Reasons Firms Are Bought” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com

David describes the differences in what kind of people principals should hire during the early stage of their creative firm's development when it's all about “what we can afford,” the middle stage when it's about “what we need,” and then the later days of an agency when it's about “what we can learn.”   LINKS “How Your Hiring Strategies Change” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com “The Problem of Standards” by David Maister

Blair interviews David on his recent article about the idea that expertise does involve supplying answers, eventually, but mainly expertise is about asking the right questions, first, and then offering a few answers after the truth surfaces.   Links “Expertise Is Mainly About Asking Great Questions” by David C. Baker on Punctuation.com

Podcast: 2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns (LS 50 · TOP 0.5% what is this?)Episode: The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling ExpertisePub date: 2024-10-23Get Podcast Transcript →powered by Listen411 - fast audio-to-text and summarizationDavid interviews Blair about his new book, which lays out his proven framework B2B service providers can use to increase closing ratios and average proposal values.   Links Order The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise by Blair EnnsThe podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from David C. Baker and Blair Enns, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

David C. Baker is the author of multiple books, including “The Business of Expertise: How Entrepreneurial Experts Convert Insight To Impact + Wealth”. He's a helicopter and airplane pilot, an avid photographer, and taught high performance motorcycle riding/racing. Based in Nashville, he has visited and worked all over the world. On this episode of 50 Fires, he shares his insights on staying curious in life, the importance of keeping meaningful hobbies, and how to shut out the noise of comparative spending.  Email List: Sign up at https://www.50fires.com/ for our monthly email with resources for financial advisors!  Follow 50 Fires on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/50firespod/ Please direct business inquires to: blindnilaudio@magnolia.com Cover Art: Josh Passler - TheFinArtist.com Music Credits:  Alexandra Woodward / Rabbit Reggae / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com Cody Francis / Wherever You're Going / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David unpacks six principles that can help creative firms benefit from delivering strategic guidance through their account managers.   LINKS "Account Managers and Strategy" by David C. Baker at punctuation.com

Thinking about hosting a live event, but not sure how to make it well-attended, profitable and worth your time? Renowned author, speaker and creative firm advisor David C. Baker lifts the curtain on his wildly successful MYOB conference and live events:The role of in-person live events in David's expertise business model (plus a peek at the numbers for his four revenue streams).How his pandemic pivot from in-person gatherings became a new lead generation source—and removed travel from his client engagements.Why his conferences and events include multiple opportunities for attendees to engage with each other; he shares a few ideas you can borrow.His philosophy on outside speakers: how he chooses, pays and manages them.The one thing you must do if you want to make sure your conference doesn't lose money.LINKSDavid C. Baker MYOB Conference | LinkedIn | TwitterRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramBIODavid C. Baker is an author, speaker, and advisor to entrepreneurial creatives worldwide. He has written 6 books, advised 1,000+ firms, and keynoted conferences in 30+ countries.His work has been discussed in the Wall Street Journal, Fast Company, Forbes, USA Today, BusinessWeek, CBS News, Newsweek, AdWeek, and Inc. Magazine. He lives in Nashville, TN.His two most recent books can be found here and here. His work has also been featured in the NY Times, where he was recently referred to as “the expert's expert”. He co-hosts the most listened to podcast in the creative services field (2Bobs).BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:17David C. Baker: You know, here's the easiest way to lose money with an event. When I learned this, my whole world changed about events. Do not sign up for room blocks because you're having to guarantee them. And then you have this pressure to sell and then you cheapen your brand by starting to beg people to come to these things and so on.00:24 -...

Thinking about quitting your job to start a business? Think again! Veteran entrepreneur Steve Lomas shares candid advice on the realities of entrepreneurship, the importance of mentorship, and the emotional rollercoaster of building a business.

David provides some clear examples of what is required for a firm to be successful at offering one service for many different verticals.   Links “Strengthening a Weak Horizontal Positioning” by David C. Baker on punctuation.com

Podcast: 2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns (LS 50 · TOP 0.5% what is this?)Episode: Are You Fishing in the Right Pond?Pub date: 2024-07-31Given these uncertain economic times we are in right now, Blair is asking if some creative firms might need to rethink the market they serve, looking at whether their positioning might be too broad, too narrow, or just wrong.   LINKS "The Target Is Not the Market" by Blair Enns on winwithoutpitching.comThe podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from David C. Baker and Blair Enns, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

David shares his decision-making framework that will help agency principals make better decisions during chaotic times like these.   LINKS “Leading in a Chaotic World” article by David C. Baker on Punctuation.com

Specialize to stand out! ✨ In the latest Get Yourself Optimized podcast, David C. Baker shares his advice for you to become an elite expert. David C. Baker is a renowned author, speaker, and advisor who specializes in guiding entrepreneurial creative professionals worldwide. With an impressive portfolio of 6 published books under his belt, he has lent his expertise to over 1,000 firms through personalized advisory services. A true thought leader in his field, David has delivered keynote speeches at conferences across more than 30 countries, with his work garnering attention and discussion in numerous international publications. His extensive knowledge and industry impact have earned him the prestigious title of "the expert's expert" from The New York Times. Additionally, David co-hosts the top-ranked podcast in the creative services industry, further solidifying his position as a leading authority in the space. In our conversation, David drops a wealth of wisdom and actionable advice on deeply specializing your expertise, intentionally designing how you deliver that expertise, protecting your personal "bubble" to avoid burnout, evolving your positioning across different career seasons, and so much more. He also gets remarkably candid about the universal search for meaning, cultivating authentic relationships over superficial branding, embracing failures, and prioritizing what truly matters. Whether you're a consultant, coach, agency leader or just someone striving to elevate your impact, this episode is an absolute must-listen. You'll walk away with potent insights to optimize your expertise for greater impact and longevity. Tune in now! The show notes, including the transcript and checklist to this episode, are at getyourselfoptimized.com/465.

I was asked for the"secrets" I have for marketing. The biggest secret is this: *drum roll* Vertical specialization *Jedi Wave* "this is the secret you've been looking for" Really? Yes, really. Based on metric fscktonnes of research (that's the technical term) I conducted, and reading the research of others, I believe that positioning your business as specializing in a single vertical is the "magic bullet" that will result in more leads & sales than any other marketing strategy. Why is it a secret? Because niching down to a single vertical scares the crap out of people. There are loads of reasons to fear it: it's turning down opportunity (somewhat valid but doesn't really happen) or "I'll get bored just working in one industry" (highly unlikely, as you specialize you find deeper, more interesting problems.) And it's also difficult, and time consuming, and lots of other problems. But it's worthwhile. What's my call to action? Simple: don't just take my word for it: Listen to Wolfram Moritz and Brad Farris and Jonathan Stark and Sara Dunn and Louis Grenier on the Marketing for Consultants podcast. Go read Philip Morgan's "The Positioning Manual for Indie Consultants" where he walks you through how and why to specilize.  Read the Business of Expertise from David C. Baker where he lists the pros and cons of vertical vs horizontal specialization.  Read Spiraling Up from Lee Frederiksen & Aaron E. Taylor.  In fact, check out everything from Hinge, including Kelly J. Waffle's interview with Yitzi Weiner in the Thrive Global Community. Thank you for attending my TED rant.

While discussing eight ways creative firms can do pro bono work better based on an article David wrote recently, both he and Blair discover a couple new profound insights together.   LINKS “Maximizing Your Pro-Bono Contributions” by David C. Baker at Punctuation.com Left-handed Mango Chutney

Get my Monthly Newsletter here Welcome to part 2 of the mini-series “To Hire or Not to Hire.”   Today Erica talks with Geraldine Carter, a business coach who works with CPAs to help them go down to a forty-hour, then twenty-five-hour, and then eventually fifteen-hour work week without losing revenue. Their deep-dive discussion covers strategies for optimizing work hours and productivity without necessarily expanding the team. Just another approach to growing a profitable business! Find the answer to these questions inside… How can coaches and consultants scale their business without hiring? What are the benefits of staying solo versus hiring in consulting? How can hiring experts help consultants avoid the hire-fire cycle? What strategies can be used to reduce work hours without losing revenue? Can you grow your consulting business profit without expanding your team? Books mentioned in this episode: Getting Things Done, David Allan Value-Based Fees, by Alan Weiss Business of Expertise, by David C Baker   If you missed the first part of this 2-part series, catch it here: https://www.ericagoode.com/podcast/ep62   Reach out to Geraldine: On her website - GeraldineCarter.com Listen to the Business Strategies for CPAs podcast - on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3HPR37G   Connect with Erica: Instagram  LinkedIn  

NOTE: Rochelle and I (Jonathan) couldn't record last week. Rather than give you nothing (or a TBOA repeat) to listen to, I decided to dig through the Ditching Hourly archives and find an episode that long time fans of TBOA would be sure to enjoy. Here's the info from the Ditching Hourly site: The “Expertise Expert” himself, David C. Baker, joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about the five things that happen right after you specialize.SummaryHere is an AI summary of the key points from the episode:The episode is a discussion between Jonathan Stark and David C. Baker about positioning and specialization for consultants and professional services firms.They discuss the importance of niche positioning to stand out, attract ideal clients, see client patterns more clearly, accelerate learning, and always have things to write and talk about.They outline 5 things that happen after narrowing your business focus:You don't instantly become smarter, but your rate of learning accelerates because you start seeing more examples of your niche.Impostor syndrome kicks in because you're making expertise-based claims you didn't make before, but this fear is often unfounded because you were willing to work with those clients previously.You don't have to turn down unrelated work right away during the transition period, though over time, you'll likely feel unsatisfied with off-target projects.You immediately start narrowing your focus even further, fine-tuning your positioning through real-world conversations and testing.Counterintuitively, you'll have way more to write and talk about when focused on a niche than as a generalist.Jonathan and David emphasize that niche positioning is critical before you can effectively differentiate, charge value-based pricing, market yourself, or even decide what content to produce. It brings focus to everything that follows.About David C. Baker“The Leading Authority on Positioning, Reinventing, and Selling Firms in the Creative and Digital Space.”David C. Baker is the author of five books, three of which focus on the central elements of the business of expertise: positioning, financial management, and leadership. David speaks regularly on more than 70 topics relevant to entrepreneurial expertise, from 20 executives to 5,000 live on TV worldwide, and has worked with 900+ firms through his Total Business Review process.David's LinksDavid's WebsiteDavid's book: The Business of ExpertiseDavid's podcast (with Blair Enns)  LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter

Welcome to episode 106. If you'd like to know how one agency has been using AI since 2011 to predict the future for their clients, this chat will be interesting for you. It will also be insightful if you're curious how the agency works with their global CPG and FMCG brands. ‌Nik Pearmine, Chief Strategy Officer at Black Swan Data, and I cover a range of topics including: - his view on what it takes to be successful in account management - what he thinks is in store for the future - and whether we should be worried about AI replacing our jobs. You can get in contact with Nik via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikolas-pearmine-138bb612/ If you're listening to this at the beginning of 2024 and are based in the US, I wanted to let you know I'll be running a value-packed seminar with David C Baker and Jack Skeels on 12th and 13th March in Atlanta. ‌The event is all about the account management and project management roles. I'll be talking about the essentials of account management, how to grow an account and how account managers work with project managers. ‌David is extremely well known in the agency industry as he's an agency advisor, the author of “The Business of Expertise” and “Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors” as well as co-hosting the 2Bobs podcast with Blair Enns. ‌You can find all the details and book your tickets at David's website: https://www.punctuation.com

David C. Baker is an author, speaker, and advisor to entrepreneurial creatives worldwide. He has written five books, including his latest book titled, The Business of Expertise. Baker has advised over 900 firms, was the keynote speaker at conferences in 30 countries, and his work has been discussed in dozens of international publications. The New York Times referred to him as the “expert's expert”. He is also the co-host of the 2Bobs podcast.

 Important Financial Metrics for Creative Agencies with David C. Baker https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/important-financial-metrics-for-creative-agencies-with/id1481877575?i=1000621344461Business Coaching, Staying Relevant, Achieving Success: Insight from Pinnacle Business Guides Founder Greg Cleary https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/business-coaching-staying-relevant-achieving-success/id1481877575?i=1000618300601The Future of AI: Balancing Innovation and Ethical Considerations with Shanif Dhanani https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-future-of-ai-balancing-innovation/id1481877575?i=1000627415283"What if There's More?" with Traci Barrett https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-if-theres-more-with-traci-barrett/id1481877575?i=1000603865819Rebranding Your Agency for Success with Todd Nienkerk https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rebranding-your-agency-for-success-with-todd-nienkerk/id1481877575?i=1000623632381Building an Enduring Business: The Three Pillars of Success with Natalie Eckdahl https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/building-an-enduring-business-the-three-pillars/id1481877575?i=1000615656509Forecasting as a Team Sport with Tom O'Neil https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/forecasting-as-a-team-sport-with-tom-oneil/id1481877575?i=1000620425413Adapting to a Hybrid Work Environment with Tammy Bjelland https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/adapting-to-a-hybrid-work-environment-with-tammy-bjelland/id1481877575?i=1000619084869Finding Balance in Life as an Entrepreneur with Coach Bob Shenefelt https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-balance-in-life-as-an-entrepreneur-with-coach/id1481877575?i=1000638924357 Summit Virtual CFO by Anders website: https://www.summitcpa.net/Email us with questions or if you'd like to be a guest on the show: vcpasuccessshow@anderscpa.comThis Quiz Will Tell You What Financial Help Your Business Needs: https://rxkebp5191f.typeform.com/summitquiz?typeform-source=statics.teams.cdn.office.net 

When should agency owners consider selling their business? What are buyers looking for? What's the market like in 2023? Buckle up, because today's guest, Jonathan Baker has the answers. As the Practice Lead for Mergers and Acquisitions at Punctuation (formerly, David C. Baker), Jonathan knows a thing (or ten!) about what it takes to successfully close a deal in this market, and in the agency landscape overall. Interestingly, Jonathan has experience in selling his own business, having gone through the process with his brewery company that today boasts multiple locations and close to 200 employees. So, what's brewing with M&A? While it's been a challenging year for many agency owners and deal flow has slowed down massively, there will always be buyers on the market looking to complement their offering with specialized services. This episode dives into topics like positioning and specialization, the emotional side of selling your darling, and why you should continue to act as if you weren't selling even if you were in the process. Here's what Corey and Jonathan cover in this episode: The state of agency M&A this year. When agency owners should consider selling. How agency valuations are formed. What buyers are looking for and who's buying. Who should be involved from your team in M&A talks. Here are some actionable key takeaways for agency founders: If you don't have it in you to grow your business further, perhaps it's time for M&A. M&A can be a growth lever to get access to systems and perks of a larger firm. Strong positioning, client focus, and solid processes make you more attractive for M&A. A specific expertise can help get you acquired by generalist agencies. Don't share too much too early internally because things can change dramatically. The resources mentioned in this episode are: - Connect with Jonathan on LinkedIn Here - Learn About Punctuation Here - Check out the MYOB Conference Here Join us as we explore the ropes of agency M&A.

Blair and Leah are concluding their brief summer hiatus, back in the studio this week, preparing to bring you a brand new interview in two weeks time.  Until then, Blair has shamelessly selected another episode of his other podcast, 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship, which he cohosts with David C. Baker. In this episode from 2021, David interviews Blair about his Amazon #1 best-selling book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, ten years after its launch. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching Leah's Linkedin  The ICA The ICA's Linkedin David C. Baker 2Bobs The Win Without Pitching Manifesto

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training organization for creative professionals. He is the author of two books, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He is the co-host, along with David C. Baker, of the podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. Best of all, he is the guest on this week's show with Ron and Ed. A good portion of the show will be spend talking about The Innoficiency Principle. Blair laid out the thoughts behind this principle at this link and described it quite succinctly. From Blair: “The Innoficiency Principle states that innovation and efficiency are mutually opposable goals. In any reasonably functioning organization, one cannot be increased without decreasing the other.”

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, the sales training organization for creative professionals. He is the author of two books, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He is the co-host, along with David C. Baker, of the podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. Best of all, he is the guest on this week's show with Ron and Ed. A good portion of the show will be spend talking about The Innoficiency Principle. Blair laid out the thoughts behind this principle at this link and described it quite succinctly. From Blair: “The Innoficiency Principle states that innovation and efficiency are mutually opposable goals. In any reasonably functioning organization, one cannot be increased without decreasing the other.”

"Building a solid cash cushion is super important to any successful business and to any marketing firm out there." - David C. BakerThe finer details of this episode:Different approaches to financial managementThe importance of financial planning and forecasting Building a solid cash cushion Episode resources:Summit Virtual CFO by Anders website – summitcpa.netEmail us with questions or if you'd like to be a guest on the show – vcpasuccessshow@anderscpa.comBusiness Insight for Expert Marketing Firms (davidcbaker.com)David C. Baker | LinkedIn

While Blair and Leah take a brief summer hiatus, we're delighted to bring you an episode of Blair's other podcast, 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. In this episode, Blair and his co-host David C. Baker talk about Blair's Innoficiency Principle as it applies to running an agency.  Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin Leah's Linkedin  The ICA David C. Baker 2Bobs The Innoficiency Problem

Justin Ahrens, David C. Baker, Michael Bierut, Bill Gardner, Darcy Hinrichs, Gary Kopervas, Emily Mills, Stefan Mumaw, and Calvin Ng discuss the first day of 2023’s HOW Design Live in Nashville, Tennessee. This HOW had an energy I missed. It[…]↓ Read the rest of this entry... The post HOW Design Live 2023, Conference Recap 1 of 3 : Justin Ahrens, David C. Baker, Michael Bierut, Bill Gardner, Darcy Hinrichs, Gary Kopervas, Emily Mills, Stefan Mumaw, Calvin Ng appeared first on 36 Point.

This episode is a short one with just a few updates. First off, you can sign up for my brand new email course, the Six Secrets to Outbound ROI, right now by going to www.GetOutboundROI.com. Who's this course for? It's for agency owners who are tired of not getting anywhere with their outbound. How do you know if this course will help? One sign is that you've tried and failed at all of the typical outbound strategies, like emails, calls and LinkedIn. Maybe you've also hired an outsourced lead gen company, but it didn't work. Another sign is that you've already hired and fired BDR teams maybe more than once. Another sign is that you've become too heavily reliant on inbounds to grow your business. You know you need outbound to work, but you've run out of ideas. Here's what you need to know about the Six Secrets to Outbound ROI email course. It's a free six-day email course where each day, you'll get a new secret delivered right to your inbox. These are the outbound secrets that help me grow Scorpion, a digital marketing agency, from $20 million to $40 million just by adding outbound to an existing inbound-only program. So if you're ready to start getting outbound working for your agency, go to www.GetOutboundROI.com right now and sign up. Second, we have some amazing guests coming up on the podcast, including author and well-known positioning expert and agency consultant David C. Baker. We also have the amazing Jonathan Stark coming up, as well as many more successful agency founders, coaches, and consultants, here to share their stories and insights on taking a vertical market approach to growth. Thank you for being a listener, and we'll see you next week.

David C Baker – What's Keeping You Up at Night? - David is the author of five books, three of which focus on the central elements of the business of expertise: positioning, financial management, and leadership. David speaks regularly on more than 70 topics relevant to entrepreneurial expertise, from 20 executives to 5,000 live on TV, all over the world. He also regularly appears as a guest on ca. 15 different podcasts every month. Go to to get the latest on David's work.  Also his LinkedIn account is dripping with wonderful insight. We get into a lot of things with our guest, what's his preferred lubricant for conversations, epistemological humility, the myth of certainty and the three things he believes about faith, among other fun topics. Hit that play button, folks! Please support the Break It Down Show by doing a monthly subscription to the show  All of the money you invest goes directly to supporting the show!   For the  of this episode head to  Haiku David C Baker He's no stranger to podcasts Not by a long shot   ​​Similar episodes: Adam Shoenfeld  Stuart Scheller  S. Sheller, Matt Hoh  Join us in supporting Save the Brave as we battle PTSD.  Executive Producer/Host: Pete A Turner  Producer: Damjan Gjorgjiev  Writer: Dragan Petrovski  The Break It Down Show is your favorite best, new podcast, featuring 5 episodes a week with great interviews highlighting world-class guests from a wide array of shows.  

Today's episode is brought to you by Damn Good Conversations David C. Baker is a return guest. You can listen to my first conversation with David HERE Today we talk about his incredible new book, Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors: Covert Techniques for a Remarkable Practice Check out David's new amazing book HERE This is a conversation about expertise, coaching, writing, the power of aesthic choices, and so much more. As always, thanks for listening! --Joe 

Behind his back, I call him a Peter Drucker. He's the co-host of one of my favorite podcasts, 2Bobs. He's also the author of six business books.His name is David C. Baker, and I could listen to him all day with his pearls of wisdom on accumulating and sharing expertise with others.David's newest book is Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors. You do not need to be a third-party business advisor to appreciate this conversation. The content of this book applies to anyone who is a knowledge worker.

Season 4 Episode 42 | Recorded Februrary 21, 2023 Scotty's back in the Office with our Principal, Ron Baker, and he has a copy of "The Creative Act: A Way of Being" by Rick Rubin. In this book report, they cover a wide range of topics, including creativity in art and accounting, the quest for efficiency, the role of humor in art, and the importance of paying attention to your surroundings. The conversation also touches on the challenges of being an entrepreneur and artist, the subjective nature of value, and the evolution of an artist's work. This engaging and thought-provoking discussion is a must-listen for anyone interested in creativity, art, or entrepreneurship. Tune in to hear more from Scott and Ron on "The Creative Act" and its many insights. Entering the principal's office… Rick Rubin Comparing Ron to Rick Ron's first thoughts - Anyone can be creative Spirituality and Art Output in art and accounting and the efficiency quest Jasper Report AI usage Humor and Art are confrontational The quest for efficiency Childlike wonder and awe Repackaging old ideas with new insight Patience versus Efficiency Unique art alienates and divides Purpose being debatable Race and color tweets and being offendable Alienating yourself and following your intuition Paying attention to your surroundings Seeing the signs around you R.A.A.P. Book MAAP Being a conduit for inspiration Everyone does things their own way Entrepreneur and Artist Sharing versus Scarcity A few quotes How the book was written and what makes it special The new rap name and new rap Writing the rap Profitability and Cash Flow Habits to get things done Value is subjective You'll never make it Evolution of an artist Our own filters and unique voices We like different takes Artist vs Entrepreneurs The suffering artist Superintendents, boards, field trips ABC tournament and the Anti-Conference Book Reports on going Summary of the book How to read a book Writing How to RAAP On the Crux: A challenge about value Wrapping up All the Shoutouts: Greg Kyte, CPA, Rick Rubin, Broken Record, Jason Ackerman, CPA, CFP®, CGMA, Times up, Jasper, Conversations with Tyler, South Park, Arthur Schopenhauer, John Wooten, James Clear, Simon Sinek, Tim Williams, Nikole Mackenzie, David C. Baker, Caddyshack, Dave Chappelle, Terrell A Turner, CPA, Kenji Kuramoto, James Ashford, Michelle Weinstein, Tim Ferriss, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Eminem, Paul McCartney, Beatles, Elvis Presley, Sage, Thriveal, The Crux, Momentum Accounting, Inc, Mortimer J. Adler --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/accountinghigh/message

Blair Enns and David C. Baker are highly successful entrepreneurs and authors, as well as hosts of the podcast, 2 Bobs.

He is an expert on being an expert. David C. Baker is a consultant to consultants. He's at the apex coaching experts with his sixth book Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors- Covert Techniques for a Remarkable Practice. Learn his philosophy on keeping relevant, leading clients with curiosity. Get ready for shorter lessons to build your expertise. Visit www.tradecraft.is for more informaiton.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/success-made-to-last-legends--4302039/support.

He is an expert on being an expert. David C. Baker is a consultant to consultants. He's at the apex coaching experts with his sixth book Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors- Covert Techniques for a Remarkable Practice. Learn his philosophy on keeping relevant, leading clients with curiosity. Get ready for shorter lessons to build your expertise. Visit www.tradecraft.is for more informaiton.

Season 4 Episode 20 | Recorded February 7, 2023 VarsityTips is brought to you by LiveFlow https://www.liveflow.io/partnerships/accounting-high Get 20% off for 3 months with promo code HIGH And another special thank you to our Booster Partner AppStream powered by The GrowthLab In this episode, Scott and Niks explore the concept of profitability in their respective firms, drawing on their own experiences and anecdotes. They delve into various topics, such as outsourcing, hourly billing, and employee percentages, and discuss ways to improve your profitability, such as upselling, fixed pricing, and consulting. Along the way, they share fun stories, including encounters with a shady shirt vendor. They also share practical tips for increasing profitability, including investing in marketing, automation, and niching, as well as the importance of building relationships with other companies and providing excellent customer service. This podcast is a must-listen for anyone looking to improve their firm's bottom line. What to expect from this episode Your firm is your firm Simple Tasks! interrupts Start of the review Scott has learned nothing Working at home and outsourcing Stats on what people are doing in the office Revisiting hourly billing Scott's outsourcing update When you aren't being profitable The Ps Niks Profits Jedi Mindset Shift to abundance Goals Makeup of client profitability The cost of profitability Percentages for employees Sharing the owner's salary Raising prices and clients What's the key to profitability? Working hard or hardly working? Ways to increase profitability Pricing Rushing into new clients Making cuts and Price increases Jasper's answer to profitability Upselling Caring about the customer and fixed pricing Making big changes for the clients by consulting Scott's epiphany to help accountants Getting and giving referrals Investing in marketing? Automation Offer competitive pricing Niching Take on contracting work Bracket Challenge Expand relationships with other companies for leads Animals and Mascots All the Shoutouts: Ashley Carroll, Reza Hooda FCA CTA, The Abundant Accountant, Michelle Weinstein, David C. Baker, Karbon, Jasper, Ron Baker --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/accountinghigh/message

Riches in Niches and How to Attract High-Paying Clients I'm excited for you to meet our special encore guest expert today — Henry DeVries. If you're meeting Henry for the first time — he's the CEO of Indie Books International. He's the former president of an award-winning “Ad Age 500” marketing agency — and — Henry is also a weekly columnist for Forbes.com. Henry was my guest for Episode 15 of the podcast, where he shared his expertise around strategies and tactics for writing a book — and then — how to use the book as your primary marketing strategy — or, as Henry likes to say — “Marketing with a Book.” We'll be sure to add a link to Episode 15 to today's show notes.  Okay — I invited Henry to join me for this encore interview so we could focus our time and attention on Chapter 5 of Henry's latest book entitled, “Marketing with a Book for Agency Owners.” He titled Chapter 5 — “Riches in Niches.” If you've been listening to this podcast for a while now — or if you've read our books — or attended any of our open-mic Q&As or live workshops — you know that here at Predictive ROI…we're big fans of building a riches in niches strategy. I'm going to quickly quote Henry from Chapter 5… Henry writes, “To attract high-paying clients, agency owners must be clear on their ideal prospects. But a target market with a problem is not enough. Agency owners also must find target clients that can afford to pay what you want to charge.”  Okay — it's here at the intersection of these two points that Henry and I focused our riches in niches discussion. How to find right-fit prospects who are willing to pay what you want to charge — and I would argue that when you do this work correctly and your content strategy is on point and generous — your right-fit prospects will be EAGER to pay your premium price. To help us get there — I asked Henry to walk us through what he calls the “10 filter questions” that you and your team can use as you work through the process of niching down.  In my opinion — Henry's 10 filter questions are critically important to the process of seeking riches in niches because if we don't get it right at the beginning — HOLY BANANAS — it's most likely not going to feel right 2-3 years into your “niche” strategy.  I promise you — if you take and apply Henry's advice and build a strategy around riches in niches — and then — have the courage to build an authority position deep in the niche (instead of being sort of committed), you consistently create helpful cornerstone and cobblestone content that shares your smarts with your audience. If you do this work — you'll not only be seen as the AUTHORITY in the niche, but your sales pipeline will go from being dry to being filled with a steady stream of right-fit clients from within the niche who are eager to work with you — AND — willing to pay your premium price to do it.  That's the recipe for riches in niches.   What you'll learn from this episode about riches in niches: Why your riches in niches strategy needs to include stories that matter and where you ought to share them Why it's so important to share the right social proof with your prospective clients How to find prospects in niches who are willing to pay what you want to charge How to identify and then properly step into the right pond within the right niche How to work through the 10 filtering questions to do the right work up front to help ensure you tap into the riches in niches     Speaker 1: (00:03) Welcome to the Sell With Authority podcast. I'm Stephen Woessner, c e o of predictive roi. And my team and I, we created this podcast specifically for you. So, if you're an agency, agency owner, a business coach, or a strategic consultant, and you're looking to grow a thriving, profitable business that can weather the constant change that seems to be our world's reality, then you're in the right place. You want proven strategies for attracting a steady stream of well-prepared right fit prospects into your sales pipeline. Yep. We're gonna cover that. You wanna learn how to step away from the sea of competitors, so you actually stand out and own the ground you're standing on. Yep. We're gonna cover that too. You wanna futureproof your business so you can navigate the next challenges that come your way. Well, absolutely. We'll help you there as well. I promise you. Speaker 1: (01:02) Each episode of this podcast will contain valuable insights and tangible examples of best practices, never theory from thought leaders, experts, owners who have done exactly what you're working hard to do. So I want you to think practical and tactical. Never any fluff. Each of our guests have built a position of authority and then monetized that position by claiming their ground, by growing their audience, by nurturing leads, and yes, by converting sales. But all the while they did it by being helpful. So every time someone from their audience turned around there, they were with a helpful answer to an important question, so their prospects never felt like they were a prospect. I also promise you every strategy we discuss, every tool we recommend will be shared in full transparency in each episode. So you can plant your flag of authority, claim your ground, and fill your sales pipeline with a steady stream of right fit clients. Speaker 1: (02:09) So I am super excited for you to meet our very special encore guest expert today, Henry DeVries. If you're meeting Henry for the first time, he's the c e o of Indie Books International. He's the former president of an award-winning ad age 500 marketing agency, and Henry is a weekly columnist for forbes.com. Henry was also my guest for episode 15 of the podcast where Henry shared his expertise around strategies and tactics for writing a book, and then how to use the book as your primary marketing strategy, or as Henry likes to say, marketing with a book. So, we'll be sure to add a link to episode 15 to today's show notes to make it super easy to find. It's a great episode. Okay, so I invited Henry to join me for this encore so we could focus our time and attention on chapter five of Henry's latest book, which is entitled Marketing with a Book for Agency Owners. Speaker 1: (03:09) He titled Chapter Five, riches in the Niches. And if you've been listening to this podcast for a while now, or if you've read our books or attended any of our open mic q and as or live workshops, you know that here at Predictive roi, we are big fans of itching. So I'm gonna quickly quote Henry here, uh, from chapter five of the book, Henry writes, to attract high paying clients, agency owners must be clear on their ideal prospects, and then he goes on to write, but a target market where the problem is not enough agency owners also must find target clients that can afford to pay what you wanna charge. Okay? So it's at the intersection of these two points that Henry and I will focus our discussion today, how to find right fit prospects who are willing to pay what you want to charge. Speaker 1: (04:05) And I would argue that when you do this work correctly and your content strategy is on point and generous, your right fit prospects will be eager to pay your premium price. To help us get there, I'm going to ask Henry to walk us through what he calls the 10 filter questions that you and your team can use as you work through the process of nicheing down. Because in my opinion, Henry's 10 filter questions are critically important to the process of seeking riches in the niches. Because if we don't get it right at the beginning, well, holy bananas is most likely not gonna feel right two to three years down the road. I promise you, if you take an apply Henry's advice and seek the riches in the niches, and then have the courage to actually build an authority position deep in the niche and not be kind of committed to the niche, so you're consistently creating helpful cornerstone and cobblestone content that shares your smarts with your prospective clients, clients in the niche, you'll not only be seen as the authority in the niche, but you will fill your sales pipeline with a steady stream of right fit clients who are eager to work with you and who are willing to pay your premium price to do it. Speaker 1: (05:29) So without further ado, my friend, welcome back to the Sell With Authority Podcast. Henry, Speaker 2: (05:36) Thank you for inviting me to talk about riches niches. You're very welcome. April, 2022, the place, Oceanside, California. I'm celebrating the eighth anniversary of Indie books. Okay? We've published over 150 authors. Life is great. I'm not happy. Okay? I'm at a crossroads. Sounds like there's a story there. You're gonna start a hospital. There's a story there. I'm at Crossroads and I go, I teach this riches and niches and I've helped so many people, and I don't feel that we've really found ours, huh? Because I had focused on consultants and coaches, okay? And there was just something missing. And the, the ponds and the groups that I, the watering holes and Pamela Slim of the Whitest Nets language, you know, the, they just weren't feeling totally right for me. Okay? So I did a, I did an exercise. I, I went on a retreat, just me in a car to a motel to think of this through, okay? Speaker 2: (06:45) Made a list of all our authors and divided them into groups, okay? And there was this one group that I liked to work with the most agency owners, because I was an agency owner. And matter of fact, indie Books International is an agency. It's a marketing agency in disguise, as a publishing company, okay? And we, we help people get speaking, but part of it was this training aspect where we train you to give speeches, get on podcasts, do these things to amplify your work. That's my word for the years, Steven. Amplify. We need to amplify our work. That's a good word. Talk about that. So I went and, and the agency owners were, and I said, well, where could I go meet agency owners? So I researched, and there were 10 places where they gather that I found, and one was called the Baba, b a b summit, build a Better Agency Summit. Speaker 2: (07:44) Uhhuh. . And it was over $2,000 to attend a little problem. I didn't have an extra $2,000, but I do cover marketing for forbes.com. I've been a paid columnist for five years. So I contacted the Baba Summit people into my surprise, they said, yes, you can have a media credential come cover us, um, at the Western in Chicago. Mm-hmm. . So meanwhile, I start to call some of these agency owners that I'd helped do their books. And I said, you know, whatever happened as a result of the book. And Tom Young, uh, one of my authors said, oh, you helped us get to the million dollar level. And then we, we leveraged that book, and now we're at 2 million a year. Um, I talked to another person and she said, oh, I didn't have any Fortune 500 companies when we started. I've tripled my revenues, and now I'm working for the one of the top five banks in America, one of the top five financial houses in America, a a billion dollar Japanese technology company. Speaker 2: (08:51) As a result of this, I'm going like, well, those are some, I said, would you, would you put that in writing? Could I put that in writing? Well, of course. Would you tell other people? You know, could I put you on video? Oh, yeah. Send anybody my way. I'm going like, okay, check. We, we've got something going here. Right? Also, they were the, um, most willing to pay. Some of them told me, uh, you know, you, you're not charging enough. This is what the agents, this is what the agency owners were sharing. They were telling me that I wasn't charging them enough, right. Uh, for what they were getting from me. Okay? So I go to the, the Baba Summit. I did not know you were involved, Steven, I knew you from being in a, a couple of appearances on Onward Nation. Um, I, I think I had written about a couple of your clients and Forbes, so that was our relationship. Speaker 2: (09:39) But I see you were one of the sponsors there and involved, and that was great. Within an hour of being there. Everything I've been teaching for the last 15 years in writing about, but unwilling to do as a service, you were preaching at, at Baba, the p baba speakers were preaching, and they had people there to do it. You know, if you wanted podcasts, you could go to predictive roi. If you wanted a, um, a proprietary research study, you could go to audience audit. So it was like, these are my people. Mm-hmm. , uh, this is so great. And I had decided then, okay, I'm going all in. Now. Let me tell you, fear never sleeps. To go all in on a target niche is a scary proposition. Um, you're worried that by declaring I work for these people, your referral sources are gonna dry up Uhhuh, . Speaker 2: (10:35) I can assure you, they do not. Right? The the other thing that happens is you're, you're afraid that somebody will read your website and go, oh, well, that's not for me. I can assure you it's not. I have people call me up and say, look, I, I know I'm not an agency owner, but, uh, I run this consulting company and could I please convince you to work with me? Right. You know, go on . I'll say, you know, and, and, uh, some have and have done wonderful projects. Meanwhile, , so I, I commit to this. This is May and I, I think I've gotta write a book. I've gotta write a book about this, but I am very busy. When am I gonna have time to write another book? So, um, and we all have different faiths, and I respect that. And, um, in, in California, I have to say the universe or the universe will manifest when I'm, when I'm out in, uh, the Midwest with you, I can say God helps those who help themselves. Speaker 2: (11:35) So, but I, I prayed on it and I prayed for time to get this book done. Be careful what you pray for . I was give, in August, I was giving five workshops for CEOs on how to persuade with a story. Mm-hmm. , uh, that's what I'm paid to speak on. I've written books on that. And on, uh, day five, I contract covid. So I'm in Memphis, Tennessee, um, thousands of miles from home. Nobody there. I have to check into this, uh, cheap motel to quarantine for a week. Yep. And, uh, my healthcare got right on it got me into a doctor who prescribed the drug, PAX Lobin for me. Mm-hmm. . So I'm on a, a five day protocol of Pax Lobin. Well, it knocked it down right away. And I thought, well, I don't wanna watch TV and I'll just start writing the book. Five days later, the book was written, you know, thank you. Speaker 2: (12:38) I'm grateful for that time, . I wish it could have been like a little more enjoyable, but I got the book done and started rolling. I know I needed refinements. So, uh, signed up with predictive roi. We did the, the 90 day program, really refined it. Um, Eric, on your team, uh, I, I love Eric dearly because he challenged me on everything. Um, he gave me pushback on everything. It wasn't like, oh, great, this, like, no, this and that. What happens if this happens? And like, oh man, that would've been a huge mistake if I'd gone that way. So, very grateful to predictive roi. And then I saw, um, workshops by you and Drew McClellan of AMI in, in Florida. Um, didn't have the money for that. Went to the board and said, we need to personally borrow money, uh, so I can go to Disney World for a conference in December and January. Speaker 2: (13:34) Um, and then when I explained it, all my wife said, a hunch. Henry had a hunch. And we bet on the hunch. And the hunch worked. So, um, I've been picking up agency clients. You told me I needed to double my prices and hire better people. I went out and did that. Yep. Um, and then when people would call me, I would give that higher price, and they didn't blink. So it all came back to what we're gonna talk about today, these filter questions. Yep. Um, agency owners pass the filter questions test for me, and I hope the filter questions help the listeners today. Speaker 1: (14:15) Awesome. Well, so let's, I, I want to tease out just one piece outta outta what you just said about the, the workshop and not, and not, and not like promoting the workshop or advertising the workshop, but your recognition about how the Baba Summit and how the workshop and how you participate in our community, how you participate in the Agency Management Institute community and, and so forth. And how you've been very strategic in, uh, aligning partnerships and friendships and all of that, because those are efforts to get deeper into the niche. And, and I'm not saying that those are not great relationships and personal relationships and turning into friendships and that kind of stuff. I, I'm, I'm not saying that those are like surfacey, they're, and they're not genuine because I know that they absolutely are. What I am saying is that they are, excuse me, that they're also indicative of when you go deep into the niche, it's about really understanding the people in the niche, really understanding the pond, really understand who is in the pond, swimming around and all of that, and developing those relationships. That's part of getting deep into the niche. Would, would you agree? Speaker 2: (15:26) Oh, absolutely. And I have to do a shout out to Susan Byer, a member of the Community of Audience Audit. And I heard you and Susan speak at the Baba Summit, and I shook her hand and, uh, gave her my card and said, I'd like to interview her for forbes.com. And, uh, she's the world's busiest woman who's going at mock five with her hair on fire. So that wasn't happening, but I, I was on, uh, a call with you and there were other people, you, you had me, I think, on a q and a talk about the book mm-hmm. , and Yep. Susan was there, and she calls me up afterwards and said, we have to talk, says this. I was where you were at a few years ago. I know who you are. Uh, and I know where you're at, and I just get deep into this. Speaker 2: (16:13) Do this, this is what you need to do. Yep. And I said, thank you. I appreciate that. Uh, what is the best piece of advice you have for me right now? Okay. She said, go to the workshops in December and January, you know, beg, borrow Steele, do whatever you have to. She says, I went from having eight clients to 40 when I went into this niche, uh, really strong. And so go there. And she says, you're gonna learn things. Mm-hmm. from the content that Drew and Steven teach, you're gonna learn more about your target audience, because you're gonna listen to them. You're gonna hear them. You're gonna have a drink with them, uh, you know, breakfast with them, and you're gonna be this listening machine at one of the agencies where I cut my teeth. Um, I was the head of research too. I was the head of creative services and research. That's a, that's a schizophrenic kind of person. Speaker 1: (17:09) I'm like, that's a bit of a juxtaposition, but o okay. Speaker 2: (17:11) Yeah. Right. Sounds and research. So I, I know about depth interviews and research and, and, uh, you know, listening. And that was so true, because you're amongst them and you can relate to them, of course. And when they tell a story, you can go, oh, I understand that. Yeah. You know, um, I've been there, done that. Um, so that's important to, you've gotta go where your target rich audience is. Um, not so much that, oh, I'm gonna find clients. I did, I will, but I wanna understand their worries, frustrations, doubts. Mm-hmm. . Um, I need, you know, the fear, uncertainty and doubt, the FUD factor. You need to know their FUD factor. And that's the number one thing they want to know. Do you understand my pain? Speaker 1: (18:07) Yeah. The, not only do you speak my language, do you speak my dialect? And when, when, when we talk through the niche deep dive, you know, like in our q and a's and in the, the WHO framework and so forth, that, that part of that starts with the first two ingredients in that are what are the problems, hence the FUD factor that you just mentioned. Then what are the stories? How can you speak to those problems within a story? Because we're just d n a wired to receive stories, right? How can we talk about the FUD factor in the form of a story? And then to your earlier point, how can we step into the right ponds to tell the stories, right? Because then they feel appropriate and, and, and, and they land correctly. It feels weird to step into a non-agency owner pond, if you will, and start talking about agency owner stories. Speaker 1: (19:01) It, there, there's incongruency when that happens, right? So like, all of this is part of the, the great recipe. You've done a great job of stepping into the pond and finding the rich in the niche or the riches in the niches. And I know that they're, you're, you're actively mining that. Let's start going through the 10 filter questions, because I think they're, not only do I think that they're smart, um, but I, but I also think that they're smartness, if you will, , uh, in the layers, right? So some of the questions are multi-layered. Some of the questions are deeper than maybe what somebody might think as they're quickly going through them, and that, oh, I don't have to answer that one. I could just bypass that one. Or I'll just, I'll focus on, you know, question two, six and 10. And that should be good. Speaker 1: (19:46) And it's not good. The 10 filtering questions are 10 filtering questions on purpose. So, so let's, let's go through them first. I'm, I'm just gonna go through them, uh, quickly and then, and then we'll go back and slice 'em apart. So, question one, are you interested in solving the problems this group has? Question two, have you worked with any already? Three, can they afford to pay you four? Are they willing to pay more for better service? Five, do they already know they need an agency like you? Six? Are they numerous? Seven, do you, uh, do you have only a few real competitors? Eight. Can you find them easily enough through listen associations? Uh, nine, can you find a target rich environment where they gather? Uh, and then 10, will you or will some make marquee clients advocates and references? Okay. So let's slice all of these apart and go through them in depth. So walk us through, number one, are you interested in solving the problems this group has and why you put that first? Speaker 2: (20:53) Okay. So first let me grab my book, my 17th book. Amazing. And Stephen, my books are my children. Hmm. And like my children, I expect them to take care of me in my old age. Okay. So let's go to chapter five and that first one. Um, are you interested in solving the problems if solving their problems doesn't energize you? It's a non-starter. Um, when I was looking at the different groups, I've done a lot with technology services companies, okay. Speaker 2: (21:24) And I thought, huh, do I wanna spend all my time with technology services companies? Um, I had a chance once to buy the agency I'd started at and worked my way up to president. And, um, I didn't know this strategy, it was just instinctive and I followed it. And we were the leader in real estate, community marketing, you know, new home communities, master plan communities throughout Southern California. Okay. Um, we had all the top people, and and you eat on that whale for years, you catch a whale, like a master plan community that's a eight, seven, you know, seven, eight year project. You bet. Um, but I didn't buy, and one of the reasons was I didn't wanna spend the rest of my life talking about cathedral ceilings and low flow toilets. You know, it was just like, uh, it didn't excite me. Yeah. So, uh, I went out on my own and formed my own lemonade stand and went looking for the, for the right niche. So agency owners, I love the problems they have. Oh, by the way, research. Yep. Number one problem for two outta three agency owners is, and you know it, Steven, the dry sales pipeline, not enough qualified prospects in that pipeline. Yep. And business development is their heartburn, it's their pain. Second problem for, uh, 50% of agency owners, not enough time to do business development. Um, should we move to two? Have you worked with them already? Speaker 1: (23:03) 1, 1, 1 more piece to to number one. Speaker 2: (23:05) Okay. Speaker 1: (23:07) Because if we don't get right what you just said, you know, that, that we're interested in solving the problems that's gonna come through also in the content. When, when, when you know that Drew and I, uh, teach the point of view piece, right? So, predictive roi, we believe, like in our core, we believe, uh, that most agencies, business coaches and strategic consultants go about business development in the least effective, most painful way possible. There's a better way we call it. So with authority methodology, yeah. That is our belief system. It is our truth. So if you're just kind of like, eh, on point number one here, which is why it's an important filter that's gonna show through in your content, that's gonna show through how you show up in the pond, right? Speaker 2: (23:51) Right. We have an energy meter. Yeah. Everybody has it. And they can tell if you have energy around this topic or not. Are you just there? Oh. Because you're trying to serve that, you know, it's like if you're not genuinely energetic about it mm-hmm. , um, nor, uh, was famous author about, uh, you know, the power of enthusiasm. You know, so if you don't have enthusiasm, right? Um, it comes across and you can't fake it. Speaker 1: (24:26) No, Speaker 2: (24:26) You can't fake sincerity. Speaker 1: (24:28) No. Cuz cuz then you look like you're trying to get rich in the niche and Right. And then that, and that feels a whole lot of yucky to everyone in the pond. So, um, okay. So let's, and Speaker 2: (24:37) By the way you just said that Yeah. The riches are not just money. Yeah. Um, there are 12 different riches, uh, that you get from a, a money finishes 12th on the list. Um, when you're, one of the riches is you love to work. You love to work because you love solving their problems. Uh, you love these people. So that comes through Speaker 1: (25:03) 100%. Yeah. When, when, when somebody goes to the Baba Summit, the builder Better Agency Summit, this May, um, as the previous two summits, when, when Drew McClellan gets on stage to do his keynote, like he has the previous two, there will be there, there will be tears, there will be shouts of joy, there will be, it's an emotional delivery of a keynote. Why? Because everyone, all 300 and plus whatever number of people who are going to be there this year will know that he is there for them. And that he not only speaks their language, his stories align with that. His passions all about helping them. It, it is clear through his words and actions that he is their guy. And, and, and that rings through. If he was there to just be playing niches in the, or riches in the niches, it, it, it, it, I mean, it would fall flat, right? It would be easy to suss out and see the difference. Speaker 2: (26:03) They were yelling, we love you, drew. It was like a rock concert. I was thinking like, what's going on Speaker 1: (26:10) Here? Right? And that does not happen by accident, right? Speaker 2: (26:12) No. And it comes across and Drew is an agency owner. Yep. And Ami is this other thing he's doing to help other agency owners. Eric, from predictive ROI stepped on my toes and said, you don't talk in any of your materials, that you're actually an agency owner right now. And, and that you know this and you know, when you get up in the morning, you have to worry about your pipeline and, and you have to worry about the clients and the billing. And I says, you don't tell 'em that you're walking the same journey. So that's important. Speaker 1: (26:48) It is important. Okay. So now, now let's move to number two. Speaker 2: (26:52) Well, have you worked with them already? And, and I've coached a thousand people on this, and we'll come up to this and they say, well, I'd like to work with, you know, maybe hospitals, healthcare. I heard there's a lot of money there. Um, or I could work with financial advisors. I said, well, you know, how many hospitals have you worked with? None. How many financial advisors have you worked with? Dozens and dozens. I said, okay, here's our answer. . You know, it's like, uh, uh, yes, you could pick a niche you've never been in and worked to get in there, but you're swimming upstream. Uh, there's a German proverb I like to quote, and it i'll, it translates like this. It doesn't matter how fast you're going if you're on the wrong road. Speaker 1: (27:40) Amen. Speaker 2: (27:42) And in fact, it's actually worse because you're getting farther away from where you need to be. Um, so you need to get the right road. And the right road is people who you've already helped you have some credibility with. There needs to be a story there that you, as you said, the stories you tell. Yeah. They need to be your stories. Your stories matter. Human brains are hardwired for stories. So you need to be telling stories for that target group. Speaker 1: (28:10) Amazing. Okay. Perfect. Uh, how about three, can they afford you? Speaker 2: (28:15) Can you, they afford you? Um, I always say money isn't everything. The author Zig Ziegler said, money is not the most important thing, you know, oxygen, but it's next to oxygen. So we need money to keep going. It's the fuel that keeps the, the rocket ship going here. And, um, some people just don't have the money, right. For you to have abundance, the abundance you need for your team members, uh, for causes you wanna support. Mm-hmm. , um, all the things you need to do requires filthy luer. No. It requires money. Yeah. Speaker 1: (28:53) Well, and that ties into number four. Are they willing to pay more for better service, uh, so that you're not having a race to the bottom right. That you can actually afford to invest in delighting your clients? Am I on the same page with you? Speaker 2: (29:05) You, you're absolutely right. So they have to see the value in the investment. Okay. So when we were in the real estate niche, um, they saw the value and they'll pay more. There was a quick story. This, um, one, one client wanted to talk to us. And I have to say he was a little shady. You know, they were, they were big, burly people, uh, outside his office and, uh, you know, so let's just say shady. And so I made the mistake as, as agency president, I said, just double the amount that we normally charge, and that way he'll kick us out is too expensive, you know? And he said, but what happened was he said, okay, you charge twice as much as anybody else. Must Speaker 1: (29:53) Be good. Speaker 2: (29:53) Well, obviously you're good . So okay, you're hired . And then, then he gave us some secret information and said, if it ever gets out, you're gonna have to look over your shoulder all the time. Do you understand what I'm saying? And I said, I understand. I walked out and my, uh, my, my account executive young sweet woman said that threat, do you really think he could cause us to lose other clients? I said, Linda, he was threatening to kill us. He would've us murdered if this got out. She was like, . Like, thankfully the campaign went well, and, and, uh, we moved on. Yeah. Okay. Speaker 1: (30:38) . Well, so I, I, here, here's, here's one of the reasons why, uh, I feel like number five is multi-layered. Um, so do they already know they need an agency like you? When, when I read it now, it could be just my lens and my bias, um, that when I read it, I think, oh, okay. It's because, you know, we've planted a flag of authority. We've, you know, become the authority in this space, in the niche and, and all of that. And you say you must educate the prospects that need an agency like yours. Um, so, so tell us all about five, because when I read five, I'm like, that's pretty meaty. Number five, Speaker 2: (31:12) Five is meaty. So you're looking for clients who hire agencies. They've worked with an agency before. They know the value proposition of the agency. They're not that people go like, eh, I could hire somebody in-house, or I could hire an agency. Yeah. You don't want those people. Hmm. Um, because they're asking the wrong questions. You know, an agency buys time by the year, sells it back by the hour, and gives you top talent. Yep. You're competing for the bottom talent who's willing to work for you. It's like the old joke about you're an astronaut. Are you comforted by the fact that your rocket was built by the lowest bidder ? You know? And, and, uh, so so you don't want that. So you want something they, they hire agencies. Yeah. And, uh, I, I landed a million dollar account when I was president of someone else's agency. Speaker 2: (32:15) Okay. And I got it from teaching. And, and somebody took the course and brought me in and, and they talked about their business for 45 minutes. I understood nothing about their business or what they did. Hmm. And then they said, our current agency is Manning, salvage and Lee, but, um, we've had a little falling out, so we need a new agency. Well, that was the first thing I understood, because I knew that agency wouldn't touch an account for under a million dollars . I thought, oh, um, I said, give me a week and I'll come back with a proposal. So I educated myself on this, uh, industry. Nobody was a specialist in it, and, um, won the account. Mm-hmm. . Um, another time I was brought in by a, um, fortune 500 company, and they had this project, and it, it, you'd say, this wasn't in my niche, it was about energy and gas and electric and new things like this. Speaker 2: (33:16) And I talked to 'em and I said, you know, I really don't think we're the agency for you, uh, because I have no background in this area. And they called me a week later and said, you had the account. And I, I went in and I said, and it was a, it was a great account. I said, um, why, why did you hire me? But I don't know this area. He said, actually, nobody knows this area. We were looking for something else. We were looking for somebody who could come in and completely dissect a problem and then explain it to our people how to implement it. Hmm. And we talked around and people said, oh, these are the four magic words in English language, by the way. They said, I know a guy, Henry DRIs mm-hmm. . And that's how he got it. So sometimes you'll be brought in for a certain skill you have that people recognize for, and, and that can work for you too. I give you permission to work for anybody. I want to stress you should market to one target niche, niche in Canada, niche in America, as in, you know, there's riches and niches, witches. Uh, so, uh, we don't even know how to pronounce the word, but we know that it works Speaker 1: (34:38) Well, it is, it is kind of funny. Uh, you've mentioned Eric a couple of times and he, he too says, uh, pronounces it as niche. But when, when you said, I know a guy that, that, uh, reminded me of something that I thought about mentioning, but then just forgot in the fact of how that that is actually an ingredient of how Drew and I define niche. And so if, if anyone listening, um, has heard, uh, Eric and I teach niche before, um, you know, yes, it could certainly be industry that's one of the ingredients in the recipe. Two, it could be your superpower as you just described, skill, right? It could absolutely be a superpower. Uh, three, maybe it's a business issue or challenge, uh, that, that you solve better than anybody else. And you're, your certain skill example was kind of teetering into that. So you're putting a couple ingredients together, which is awesome in, in the fourth. It, it could be an audience, maybe, you know, an audience better, maybe you know, an audience better than the client or your perspective client. So like when we, we knit all of those ingredients together, it becomes a pretty, a pretty strong recipe. So let's move into number six, which is, are they numerous? Speaker 2: (35:47) Ah, and, um, I'm a big fan of David C. Baker. I've written about 'em for years. Mm-hmm. , uh, wrote the, uh, the business, let's see, the business of expertise. Mm-hmm. . And in the business of expertise, he says, you need to have 2000 to 10,000 prospects in the area to really consider it. Less than that, it's, uh, too small of a fishing pond. Too much you're trying to drain the ocean. Um, so you, you find that for me, there are 7,800 small to medium sized agencies in America. That's a pond I can fish in for the rest of my life. Yep. And, uh, still have prospects I couldn't get to. Um, so that's what you're, you're looking for. Okay. Some other people along the way, they, uh, one chose pest control companies. Hmm. Um, and they became the pest control agency for America. And when people say, oh, I need an expert in pest control and, and marketing and all this is, I know a guy this works for our female listeners, I asked some of them and they said, yeah, we, we get called guys too. So it's okay. So I know a guy, you know, if you need an, an, uh, a research study for a agency, I know a guy Susan Byer out of Arizona audience audit. So it works that same way. Speaker 1: (37:12) Okay. So, so let's, let's go to, uh, seven. Um, do you have only a few real competitors? Speaker 2: (37:21) Yeah. So it's, um, if somebody says, I have no competition, I'm really worried. Yeah. Now, now as far as I've researched and, and we keep mentioning Eric Jensen, you know, helped me with this. There are no agency book guys other than me. The per is like, they're like, their whole thing is doing agency books. Yeah. Now, there are other ghost writers, there are other publishers. Sure. Those are still viable choices. Somebody will look at them as they look at me. I might have an edge that I specialize in the niche, um, but that doesn't mean I don't have competition. Um, so, but I don't have tons of people who can do the soup to nuts for planning a book, preparing, you know, I'm a ghost writer. Uh, I'm an developmental editor publishing the book mm-hmm. . And then what happens, our motto at indie books is publishing the book is not the finish line. Speaker 2: (38:24) It's the starting line. Right. It's about the journey that happens after that. And it's a marathon. Uh, because no author gets discovered. I, that's a myth out there. I'm gonna write this book and people discover me. You don't get discovered. I, I love the actress Margot Robbie, if you, if you know her, um, I do. And, and she was being interviewed and somebody said, what would've happened if you moved from Australia to America and you weren't discovered? And she said, I'm sorry. Well, what's the question says, well, what would you have done if they didn't, if you weren't discovered? She says, you thought I was discovered. I knocked on every door in Hollywood, every agent, every producer. And I kept knocking until somebody let me in and finally give an addition. I was not discovered. So as an author, you're not gonna be discovered either. You need to slice and dice that content. You need to go on podcasts. You, I have a magnificent seven things you have to do. There's a great book, 1,001 Ways to Market your book. That's the problem. There's 1,001 Way Ways to Market your book. Uh, I'll give you the seven most pragmatic things to do that are gonna get results. Speaker 1: (39:37) So is, is that something that we can, uh, either link in the show notes or share with our audience, or maybe point them to a blog post? I, I know you teach on the seven, but is there, Speaker 2: (39:47) I didn't teach on the seven and I've had articles on it, uh, in Forbes. Uh, okay, great. And, and we could link to it. Okay. Speaker 1: (39:54) Perfect. Um, so I will link to one of your forbes.com articles on that for some additional insight. Thank you for that. Um, the, the discovery thing is, is is really great. Like people think that, um, who don't know the backstory of Sylvester Stallone, he did the same thing in New York and went to every agent, uh, and, you know, did it multiple times, uh, until finally he wrote the script. And it's a really interesting story, but it's all about perseverance. So eight, Speaker 2: (40:21) The Rocky story is interesting because he also didn't know what he was worth. And one of his first meetings when they asked him how much for the screenplay, and he gave a number, the meeting was over because they thought he was an amateur. Yeah. I'm sorry, we're going to eight. Right? Speaker 1: (40:36) . All right. Can, uh, and this really speaks to your, uh, builder, a better agency example that you mentioned from, from last year. Can you find them easily enough through lists and associations? Speaker 2: (40:46) Right? You're looking for places where they go to get smarter. So the Baba Summit, they go to get smarter. The David C. Baker has a mind your own business conference where they go to get smarter. Um, there's, uh, you know, the, what is it, tan, t a a and, uh, agencies get together and they go there to get smarter. So where are these places? Pamela Slim and the whitest that calls 'em the watering holes or the ponds? Yes. So can you find them? Sometimes people come to me, there's this group they want, they're describing this psychographic, and there's, I go like, yeah, we can't buy a list of those people. They don't have any meetings where this psychographic all gathers. Hmm. Uh, so, uh, this is, this is a dry hole, uh, as they say in, in the, all this down in Texas. You got a dry hole here. Um, and no amount of fracking is gonna help you get anything out of that hole. So, uh, gee, that was probably politically incorrect. . Um, so, uh, what we need to do is find where they gather, and there's this amazing tool I have, if I could share, can I share it, Steven? Of Speaker 1: (41:56) Course you can. Speaker 2: (41:57) It's called Google . You Google, where does, you know, agency owners gather? Where do agency owners meet? Where do agency owners, uh, you know, what do agency owners read? Yeah. And, and the Google machine as one old timer called it to me. So yeah, the Google machine will, will spit out your answers there. Speaker 1: (42:20) Yeah. Well, here, here's, here's what I love about eight and nine. Um, so, so nine is, can you find target rich environments where they gathered? And you mentioned Baba, you mentioned some of the other agency centric associations when, when I think of eight and nine, I see some real cool interdependency between eight and nine. Eight. Can we buy a list of the 7,800 that you mentioned before? Yes. Uh, can then we use that list to maybe do some strategic prospecting, if you will. I wonder if this person's gonna be at the Baba Summit this year. I wonder if that person's gonna be a sponsor to the Baba Summit. And then you can start sort of pre-planning so that you can take your list and then head to nine the pond, and then make sure you're meeting the right people while in the pond. Right. Speaker 2: (43:07) Right. And there are all kinds of strategies, and you've used them, um, that there might be some pre-event, you know, a cocktail party or, uh, I know we're kicking around some kind of donut party morning donut excursion, Speaker 1: (43:21) But no running If Car Cunningham, Carly Cunningham, if you're listening to this right now, donuts Yes. Long distance running through the streets of Chicago. No, no, Speaker 2: (43:30) No. Have you seen Henry and Stephen? Do we look like marathon runners, or do we look like donut eat? Speaker 1: (43:37) I have two tight hips for peace sake. I, I'm not running. Come on. Speaker 2: (43:42) . My doctor did say that I've already eaten my lifetime supply of donuts, and I should let other people have the donuts now. But, uh, for Carly, I might, I might consent to have one in Chicago. No, the point of that is you can get together, uh, I do Q and as, uh, modeled after your campfire q and as for authors and agency owners, and I encourage people to be part of the community, come there, ask questions, to get to know other members. I, I call the 150 authors, uh, the family. Yep. And my word is I want the family amplifying each other's work. It's, it's not a quit pro quo or anything like that, but it is the law of reciprocation that the more people you help, the more you will get helped to amplify your work and share it with others. And as we said, where these gatherings are, you can do extra things. David Maister, Dr. David Maister, I recommend him. Former professor at the Harvard Business School. Mm-hmm. . Uh, he let me take one page from one of his books 20 years ago and make a career out of it. A and he always said, this is what you need to do and you need to gather, and you just don't come in and out. Um, you need to be part of the community and contributing to that community anyway. You can. Speaker 1: (45:06) Right. 100%. I I know that we're, uh, quickly running out of time. So, so bring us home with number 10. Uh, will some make marquee clients advocates and references? Speaker 2: (45:17) Well, right. If, if you have some group where they say, what would be your client, but here's the condition, you can never mention that you worked with us. Uh, this is not a good place because prospects want social proof. They want several things. They want, they wanna know that you have a proprietary problem solving process, that you're not winging it. Uh, they want to know that you have experience. Uh, they wanna know some marquee clients. They wanna be able to talk to some people that you've worked with. Um, they need all these social proofs because they can't really judge how good of a service our agency provides. Um, and everybody says the same thing. Oh, I've done focus groups with people who hire agencies. Don't say these things. Don't say how long you've been in business. Uh, they laugh at you for that. I've been golfing longer than Tiger Woods. Speaker 2: (46:09) It doesn't make me a better golfer. Okay. The other thing is, don't say we're just the right size, big enough to get the job done small enough for personal attention. They, they laugh at us for that. They say firms with five people say that firms with 500 people say that. What they wanna hear is research about their peers. Not you naming peers. But, you know, we've worked with, you know, this many people or we've done a study and, uh, our research shows, like I shared that two outta three agency owners. And the number one pain is a dry sales pipeline. Not enough qualified prospects. Yep. I surveyed over a thousand people to learn that. So they wanna learn about themselves. They wanna know that you know about them. They want to be able to tell somebody, oh, well, we hired the agency that worked for A, B, and C, and they go, oh, they're good. Um, so that's why this is important. Speaker 1: (47:07) A hundred percent love that and great way to, to, to bring us home and, and emphasizes, uh, when, when we kicked off going through that list, or actually in the introduction, um, I, I've mentioned the, the, the, the piece that you use as your bottom line to close out this chapter. You, you, you say, so I'm gonna quote Henry again here, um, what he wrote, bottom line, the more quality thinking you do upfront meaning through these 10 questions, the easier business development will be 100%. Well, well said, Henry. So I, before we go, uh, before we close out and say goodbye, um, any final advice, anything you think we might have missed? And then please do tell, uh, our audience, uh, the best way to connect with you. Speaker 2: (47:52) Thank you for asking. Sure. If anybody ask you a good question like that, you're to pause three seconds for dignity and say, thank you for asking . The, the main message is stay on the journey. And then when you do a book, is the number one marketing tool. Talking about the book is the number one fill your pipeline strategy. Yeah. So you get on podcasts, you, you give speeches, you talk about the book, the book opens the doors to do that. And also, as you taught me in Sell with authority, you can't spell authority without the word author. An author is an authority and people get your best thinking in the book. So share that with them. So for anybody in the predictive ROI world, if they wanna have a no cost, no selling zone strategy call with me on this. I'm happy to do it. Speaker 2: (48:51) Yeah. So you can just contact me at henry indie books i ntl.com. Steven will put it in the show notes, and, uh, we'll have what I call a book chat. I'll help you get clear on the goals for doing a book, what hidden assets you have to get a book done. A lot of people don't realize they're already have these assets. Uh, three, what are the roadblocks, uh, roadblocks. Don't stop agency owners, but you gotta figure a way around them, over 'em, through 'em. And then, uh, four, I'll tell you how others have gotten from where you are right now to where you want to go, because the path and the plan of others leaves the clues you need for your journey and your quest to sell with authority. Speaker 1: (49:36) Yeah. A a good friend of mine and one of my accountability partners, Don Yeager, um, often says this, this quote is not his. I just can't remember the, uh, person who originally said it. But anyway, Don often says, success leaves clues. And, and I think that that's a hundred percent correct. And Henry, uh, thank you very much for saying yes to come back to the show for this encore. And everyone, uh, no matter how many notes you took or how often you go back and re-listen to Henry's words of wisdom, which I sure hope that you do, the key is you have to take what he's so generously shared with you, the 10 filtering questions and all of the story in stories in each of those. 10, take them and apply them. Because again, the bottom line, how much work you put into the front end of this is what will determine the success. Success leaves clues, and he just gave you a bunch of them. Take it and apply it. Because when you do that through application, that's where the results will come. And again, Henry, thank you for saying yes, we all have the same 86,400 seconds in a day. And I'm grateful that you came onto the show to be our mentor and guide, uh, yet again. Thank you so much my friend, Speaker 2: (50:46) As they say at Chick-fil-A. My pleasure.

One of the most painful things any expert or consultant can do is… say no to opportunity. But it must be done. Author and advisor David C. Baker, who's been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, and more, explains how doing so will actually make your business more successful (and ensure you enjoy your work even more, too).Building a business based on your expertise requires a unique approach. And David highlights some of the best practices for making sure potential clients recognize what you bring to the table – and pay accordingly. In this episode, you'll learn… The 4 common mistakes of entrepreneurs – and how to avoid them One of the best ways to organize your thoughts and formulate new ideas The dangers of over-delivering to a client 2 ways to gain expertise none of your competitors have How to ensure you can charge a premium for your services And more

This week, we used a puff of smoke to catch pricing magician Blair Enns performing his favourite trick; making RFPs disappear.   Founder of Win Without Pitching and Author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity, Blair is dead set on getting creative businesses to price their work properly, single-handedly saving those who sell ideas for a living from giving them away for nada.  We pulled a ton of topics out of a hat including his early years in account management and new business, pitching and RFPs, generalist vs specialist agencies, value-based pricing, why your agency should have a portfolio of pricing models, pricing creatively, how to raise your prices with current clients (and not p**s them off in the process), search consultants, hissing cockroaches and loads more.    ///// Follow Blair on Twitter and LinkedIn  Check out Blair's website  Get his books Pricing Creativity and The Win Without Pitching Manifesto Here's the 2Bobs podcast  And listen to Blair's new show 20% The Marketing Procurement Podcast  Strange Creatures: Pitches, Search Consultants, and Hissing Cockroaches by Blair Enns Consultative Selling: Beating The Odds by Tom Lewis  Thank you to everyone who has lent their ears and their brains for over 100 episodes of the Call To Action® podcast. It's a real privilege. Please do share and review the podcast to help more marketers feel better about marketing.     Timestamps (01:52) - Quick fire questions (03:58) - Account management as a gateway drug into ad land  (09:38) - Doing new business remotely in 2000 (13:45) - The real problem with pitching  (21:44) - Value based pricing  (24:22) - Does the blame lie with agencies or clients?  (27:11) - Why pricing is a prison cell in your own mind of your own making (31:53) - Pricing as a creative act  (37:25) - The importance of presenting more than one price (43:28) - Listener questions  (50:36) - 4 pertinent posers  Blair's book recommendations are:  $100M Offers by Alex Hormozi  The Boutique by Greg Alexander  The Business of Expertise by David C. Baker  /////

Gyi and Conrad talk about gorgeous data dashboards and the gorgeous-er data behind them. Then, the guys dig into how your clients really feel about fees and billing. Plus, book club! ----- Straight from the YouTubes: Gyi and Conrad answer a listener question regarding metrics dashboards. Plot twist, it's less about the tools you use to display your data, and more about the integrity of the data you put into it. Get your data, keep it clean, and make it actionable for your law firm. Throwing money at a pretty dashboard may make you feel more on top of things, but getting down and dirty with the raw numbers will put you more in touch with your business. Next, you've heard this a million times: your clients want alternative billing methods. And yet, according to the Clio Legal Trends Report, only 37% of law firms offer flat fee pricing. We know change is hard, but seriously, why aren't you listening to what clients say about fees and billing? And then, back to the business bookshelf for David C. Baker's “The Business of Expertise.” Selling expertise is exactly what attorneys do, even if you aren't allowed to say you're an expert. “Five Stars” - Gyi Tsakalakis. The News: Google is changing Similar Audiences, the algorithm for finding ad targets. Plus, some Google spam updates. Be in the know. And a mystery CRM product coming in January, we know nothing … nothing! Finally, some talk about SEO, rankings, and reviews. This never gets old.

Gyi and Conrad talk about gorgeous data dashboards and the gorgeous-er data behind them. Then, the guys dig into how your clients really feel about fees and billing. Plus, book club! ----- Straight from the YouTubes: Gyi and Conrad answer a listener question regarding metrics dashboards. Plot twist, it's less about the tools you use to display your data, and more about the integrity of the data you put into it. Get your data, keep it clean, and make it actionable for your law firm. Throwing money at a pretty dashboard may make you feel more on top of things, but getting down and dirty with the raw numbers will put you more in touch with your business. Next, you've heard this a million times: your clients want alternative billing methods. And yet, according to the Clio Legal Trends Report, only 37% of law firms offer flat fee pricing. We know change is hard, but seriously, why aren't you listening to what clients say about fees and billing? And then, back to the business bookshelf for David C. Baker's “The Business of Expertise.” Selling expertise is exactly what attorneys do, even if you aren't allowed to say you're an expert. “Five Stars” - Gyi Tsakalakis. The News: Google is changing Similar Audiences, the algorithm for finding ad targets. Plus, some Google spam updates. Be in the know. And a mystery CRM product coming in January, we know nothing … nothing! Finally, some talk about SEO, rankings, and reviews. This never gets old.

Legendary leader, David C. Baker, joins The Businessology Show to once again share his invaluable agency insights with the world. This time, he reveals the three biggest developments agency leaders need to undergo in order to run a successful agency. Hint: Account Managers and Project Managers are on the hot seat now. Your agency will thank you later! David has plenty of more insights to apply to your agency here: https://www.davidcbaker.com/

"Authority figure. Thought leader. Revolutionary icon. We're just tossing out a few terms we would use to describe today's Businessology Show guest, David C. Baker. His work in the creative and digital space needs minimal introduction, and he's decided to spend an hour talking with Jason about the most challenging aspects of running an agency. ""But isn't every aspect challenging?"" Fair question, astute listener. You'll just have to tune in to discover whether you've got the secret sauce flowing their your agency's veins or not. Learn more about David and what he offers the agency world here: https://www.davidcbaker.com/ "

We are humbled to have the legendary David C. Baker with us for a special guest episode of the Creative Shit Show. In this episode, we pick David's brain on everything from his career start to how he comes up with his creative ideas for his popular newsletter articles, books, and the 2bobs podcast. A must-listen to elevate yourself or your business. Grab a drink and hit play.

We often start out working on execution, implementing projects for clients after they've decided on strategy. Our former guest David C. Baker talks about this as "working with your hands". But we can have more impact, be more profitable, and enjoy our work more if we can shift back a step to the strategy phase, selling our expertise rather than the output of our "hands". In this episode, Kevin C. Whelan and Alastair McDermott discuss why and how to make the shift out of selling implementation, a different approach to working with subcontractors & clients, and why Kevin sees being a fiduciary as crucial to his business. They also discuss the pros and cons of using affiliate links, how to establish credibility in a niche, and how to think about choosing a different business model. “Optimizing for trust is the biggest thing. It's easy to do when you're not financially incentivized by where they spend their money.” -- Kevin Whelan on The Recognized Authority podcast “Your one to one work creates your methodology. Once you have it defined, you can then start to split off pieces of it and sell those independently of your one to one engagement as products, memberships and subscription products.” -- Kevin Whelan on The Recognized Authority podcast

I was talking with David C. Baker the other day about the high amount of webshops that are for sale right now. I've been in the digital services space for over 20 years and there has never been anything like this in our industry. He's seeing the same surge and we dug into some of the challenges owners are facing. Should they sell? How do they determine their value? What are the first steps in the process? This level of interest with a lack of experience in selling a business means many of us have to be careful. More on this topic in the email newsletter: https://us4.campaign-archive.com/?u=3c7b14630509cce52d23ffec0&id=78e991f706

The “Expertise Expert” himself, David C. Baker joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about the 5 things that happen right after you specialize.About David C. Baker“The Leading Authority on Positioning, Reinventing, and Selling Firms in the Creative and Digital Space.”David C. Baker is the author of five books, three of which focus on the central elements of the business of expertise: positioning, financial management, and leadership. David speaks regularly on more than 70 topics relevant to entrepreneurial expertise, from 20 executives to 5,000 live on TV, all over the world, and has worked with 900+ firms through his Total Business Review process.David's Links David's Website David's book: The Business of Expertise David's podcast (with Blair Enns)

David C. Baker is the Principal of ReCourses, Inc. He is an author, speaker, and advisor to entrepreneurial creatives worldwide. He has written five books, three of which focus on the central elements of the business of expertise: positioning, financial management, and leadership.  David has worked with more than 900 firms, and his work has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, NY Times, USA Today, Fast Company, Inc. Magazine, Forbes, MarketingProfs, Businessweek, and CBS. His most recent book is The Business of Expertise: How Entrepreneurial Experts Convert Insight to Impact + Wealth. He is based in Nashville, Tennessee, and also enjoys photography, teaching motorcycle racing, flying airplanes and helicopters, and custom woodworking. In this episode of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast, John Corcoran is joined by David C. Baker, the Principal of ReCourses, Inc., to discuss how companies pivoted due to the COVID-19 pandemic. David talks about the lessons he learned from concentrating on working with a few clients, shares his tips for success, and explains how new media and technology have been impacting businesses. Stay tuned.