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Since Charles Darwin's 1859 publication of On the Origin of Species there has been much debate and discussion about the relationship of Darwin's naturalistic hypothesis as it relates to and/or contravenes the creation account found in the Book of Genesis. Darwin's ideas have gone far beyond mere empirical science as they touch on the very philosophical, theological, and moral aspects of the origin and development of human beings.On this episode of the Profile we speak with Discovery Institute fellow Dr. Paul Nelson about these implications of Neo-Darwinian evolution and the challenges facing the theory of natural selection today. Daniel Ray caught up with Paul at the 2025 Science and Faith Conference in Denton, Texas this past February. It's a conversation you don't want to miss!Paul Nelson, PhD, Senior Fellow, Center for Science and Culture, is an Adjunct Professor in the Master of Arts Program in Science & Religion at Biola University. He received his PhD in the philosophy of biology and evolutionary theory from the University of Chicago, and he lectures frequently at colleges and universities throughout the United States and Europe. His scholarly articles have appeared in journals such as Biology & Philosophy, BIO-Complexity, Zygon, Rhetoric and Public Affairs, and Touchstone, and his book chapters have appeared in the anthologies Mere Creation (Intervarsity Press), Signs of Intelligence (Brazos), Intelligent Design Creationism and Its Critics (MIT Press), Darwin, Design, Public Education (Michigan State University Press), and Next Generation Systematics (Cambridge University Press). Heis co-author of thebiology textbook Explore Evolution, and he has appeared in several films on intelligent design for Illustra Media. Free Resources from Watchman Fellowship Naturalism: https://www.watchman.org/Naturalism/ProfileNaturalism.pdfScientism: https://www.watchman.org/scientism/ProfileScientism.pdfPanpsychism: https://www.watchman.org/files/ProfilePanpsychism.pdfPostmodernism: https://www.watchman.org/files/ProfilePostmodernism.pdfAtheism: https://www.watchman.org/profiles/pdf/atheismprofile.pdfAdditional ResourcesFREE: We are also offering a subscription to our 4-page bimonthly Profiles here: www.watchman.org/FreePROFILE NOTEBOOK: Order the complete collection of Watchman Fellowship Profiles (around 700 pages -- from Astrology to Zen Buddhism) in either printed or PDF formats here: www.watchman.org/NotebookSUPPORT: Help us create more content like this. Make a tax-deductible donation here: www.watchman.org/GiveApologetics Profile is a ministry of Watchman Fellowship For more information, visit www.watchman.org © 2025 Watchman Fellowship, Inc.
The Zygons have come to claim the Earth, and this time they're playing the long game. For the Black Cadre have a plan, a plan that will take exactly one hundred years to come to fruition. Prepare yourselves... the Zygon Century has begun! 1901: The Unknowing Mirror by Jonathan Barnes In Edwardian London, that scandalous investigator of occult phenomena, Mr Herbert Scott, and his associate, Father Felix Cromwell, are confronted by a case of possession. A young woman, suffering from unusually vivid dreams, seems also to exhibit signs of a completely separate personality. Another being is speaking through her, a being which claims not to be from Earth at all, a being which calls itself... Zygon. 1935: The Miracle of Pendour Cove by Lauren Mooney and Stewart Pringle Freddie Trewella has found a mermaid, beautiful and strange, washed ashore in a Cornish bay. He names her Vorvoren, and she comforts him in his harsh life of servitude to a zealot father. As they grow together, Vorvoren shows Freddie her secret power, to change her appearance into anything she desires. But Freddie has secrets of his own, terrible secrets, and soon Vorvoren's great adventure among the humans becomes a nightmarish fight for survival... 1957: Double Agent by Trevor Baxendale In an England gripped by Cold War paranoia, wounded MI5 operative Caldwell is itching to rejoin the fray abroad. So why are the service sending him to a remote Cornish island? Can the future of the world really be at stake? Will he be able to complete his mission without falling foul of the hideous monsters stalking the caves? And who exactly is the island's other new arrival: an operative of quite a different kind, known only as the Doctor? **Please note: The Miracle of Pendour Cove contains depictions of domestic violence which we strongly advise is not suitable for younger listeners**
Pendant que la Silicon Valley explose tous les compteurs avec plus de 90 milliards de dollars levés au premier trimestre 2025, la French Tech, elle, est en mode PLS. 1,4 milliard de levés sur Q1, une chute vertigineuse par rapport aux années passées. Alors, simple coup de mou ou fin de soirée pour la Startup Nation rêvée par Macron ? ===============================
Nick and Benji present… The Chat: AL Ronald… Good Review Guy: Space: 1999 - Dragon's Domain… Drama Tease and Behind-the-scenes: The Paternoster Gang - Trespassers: Last Stand - I Married a Zygon.
Time Ram has to decide whether to die stupid or stand down, as we review 'The Zygon Invasion/Inversion' which has changed Scotsmen from Peter Capaldi to Sylvester McCoy. In the process, we discover Robert Lindsay, garbled plot points and the Osgood conundrum. Will the quantel paint box cope? Will something very nasty happen to Uxbridge? And how many types of Zygon are there anyway?
GrandPoil nous manque donc c'est le bordel mais on a bien rigolé==============================================================Cet épisode a été enregistré, en direct, sur la chaine Twitch de Podcut. N'hésitez pas à venir assister au prochain enregistrement !
GrandPoil nous manque donc c'est le bordel.A moins que l'équipe n'ait été remplacée par des Zygons... ==============================================================Cet épisode a été enregistré, en direct, sur la chaine Twitch de Podcut. N'hésitez pas à venir assister au prochain enregistrement !
Nick and Benji present… The Chat: The Weather… Good Review Guy: Rani Takes on the World… Behind-the-Scenes and Drama Tease: Zygon Century - Infiltration… Also Available: Ianto's Inferno.
A decision has to be made that will could destroy all Humans and Zygons. It's time for The Doctor to teach everyone a much needed lesson. The war has started and splinter group Zygons are murdering people in London. Clara has been captured and the Zygon leader, Bonnie, has stolen her form. She posts a ...
Send us a textOn this episode of Too Hot For TV Dylan is joined by Ian Winterton to look at 2 different BBV Zygon releases. First up its the audio play 'Zygon: The Barnacled Baby' written by Anthony Keetch, directed by Paul Griggs and starring Debbie Watling. Then it's 'Zygon: When being You Just Isn't Enough' Directed by Bill Baggs and starring Joe Castelton, Daniel Harcourt and Keith Drinkle. They also answer the boring questions: What is the secret shame of a doctor fan? What is better than buying a sports car?What does a Zygon do when it's all out of Skarasen milk?
This week, we're looking at Twelfth Doctor two-parter The Zygon Invasion and The Zygon Inversion, and - going out on a real limb here - consider whether it might possibly have some sort of socio-political subtext. Along the way, we indulge in some uninformed speculation on show-runners that could have been, throw mild shade at The Thick of It, and consider the usefulness of an on-the-nose metaphor. Watch this episode on Youtube Send us an email Follow us on Bluesky, Instagram and X For everything else, head to illexplainlater.com.
Remember the Zygons that the Doctor left trying to invade earth during the reign of Elizabeth the First? They're still around. The Doctor, UNIT, and Osgood have devised a way for the Zygons to co-exist with humans on Earth. But the entire peace treaty rests on keeping the balance of all parties involved. And that ...
Och aye the noo, it's Scottish stereotype Who! Terror of the Zygons, written by an actual Scot, really packs them in: bagpipes, kilts, haggis, Nessie, North Sea oil, and monsters who look like they've eaten too many deep-fried Mars bars. It's stylish, it's suggestive, but does it hold up against 21st century Zygon yarns? Did we really have to lose a companion? Did the Doctor leave the TARDIS open to Sutekh attack? And who is that female Prime Minster anyway? Join us as we save money on our return fares by traveling with the Randomizer! Give your own rating for Terror of the Zygons on Spotify! Subscribe to our YouTube Channel and become a True Companion of the podcast to get new episodes before everyone else! Subscribe to our newsletter at pulltoopen.net for extended notes on Thin Ice. Support the podcast by becoming a patron of Pull To Open on Patreon. Please review Pull To Open on Apple Podcasts. Timeline: Intro 00:00:00 Previously… 00:01:51 Whomoji Challenge 00:05:53 POLL to Open 00:10:00 TL;DW 00:15:28 Commentary: Terror of the Zygons 00:21:01 History Corner 1 00:36:02 History Corner 2 00:57:18 Four Questions to Doomsday 01:06:59 What If the Evil Plot Had Succeeded? 01:10:21 Where Is the Clara Splinter? 01:15:04 Final Judgment 01:18:49 Randomizer! 01:25:06 Follow us on: TikTok! @pulltoopen Instagram: @pulltoopen63 Facebook: @pulltoopen63 X: @pulltoopen63 Threads: @pulltoopen63 Bluesky: @pulltoopen Play Pull To Open Bingo (NEW upgraded card!) Story Essentials Season 13, Serial 1 Story number: 79, per the The Pull To Open Codex Writer: Robert Banks Stewart Director: Douglas Camfield Producer: Philip Hinchcliffe Aired 30 August – 20 September 1975 Pull To Open: Terror of the Zygons Season 5 Episode 29 Hosts: Pete Pachal and Chris Taylor Music: Martin West/Thinking Fish ©️AnyWho Media LLC 2024 --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pull-to-open/support
After receiving an education in biology and at seminary, Dr. Alan Weissenbacher worked for the Denver Rescue Mission as a chaplain to the homeless. He helped move homeless and addicted people out of an urban setting to a one-hundred-acre farm, giving them opportunities to help run the farm, care for animals, and receive therapy tailored to their individual needs: counseling, addiction therapy, job training, and more. Inspired by the struggles of his clients and filled with the desire to improve Christian rehabilitation, Alan resigned from his position at the Denver Rescue Mission and enrolled in a doctorate program. He studied neuroscience and spiritual formation at the Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences in Berkeley and engaged with the question of how to improve addiction recovery, church practices, and spiritual formation using the scientific knowledge of the brain. Alan serves as the managing editor for the academic journal Theology and Science and has published works with Johns Hopkins University Press, Vernon Press, and ATF Press on the subjects of science, religion, and ethics. He authored the chapter on neuroscience and the human person in the second edition of the college textbook Science and Religion: A Historical Introduction in addition to articles in several journals, including Theology and Science, Dialog, Wesleyan Theological Journal, and Zygon. Originally from Fort Collins, Colorado, Alan currently resides in Castro Valley, California, where he's a full-time dad to two young boys and enjoys speaking at churches and organizations. Learn more about Alan and his book at www.BrainChangeProgram.com, on Facebook @alan.weissenbacher, and on X/Twitter @acweissen.
Analyzing Prayer draws together a range of theologians and philosophers to deal with different approaches to prayer as a Christian practice. The essays included deal with issues pertaining to petitionary prayer, prayer as reorientation of oneself in the presence of God, prayer by those who do not believe, liturgical prayer, mystical prayer, whether God prays, the interrelation between prayer and various forms of knowledge, theologizing as a form of prayer, lament and prayer, prayer and God's presence, and even prayer and the meaning of life. The volume contains cutting-edge studies on a neglected topic of theological study that contributes to the broadening of themes tackled by analytic theology.Oliver D. Crisp, Professor of Analytic Theology, University of St Andrews, James M. Arcadi, ?Associate Professor of Biblical and Systematic Theology, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Deerfield, Illinois, Jordan Wessling, Assistant Professor of Religion, Lindsey Wilson College Oliver D. Crisp is the Professor of Analytic Theology and Director of the Logos Institute for Analytic and Exegetical Theology. He joined the Divinity School in the autumn of 2019, having previously taught at Fuller Theological Seminary in California (2011-2019), the University of Bristol (2006-2011), and St Andrews (2002-2004). He has also held postdoctoral research fellowships at the Center for Philosophy of Religion, University of Notre Dame (2004-5; 2019), and the Center of Theological Inquiry, Princeton (2008-9). Crisp is the author of over a dozen books and over a hundred journal articles. James M. Arcadi is Associate Professor of Biblical and Systematic Theology at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois, USA. He is author of An Incarnational Model of the Eucharist (2018), co-author of The Nature and Promise of Analytic Theology (2019), and author of essays in such journals as Scottish Journal of Theology, Religious Studies, and Journal of Theological Interpretation. He is co-editor of Love: Divine and Human: Contemporary Essays in Systematic and Philosophical Theology (2019) and The T&T Clark Handbook of Analytic Theology (2021). Ordained in the Anglican Church in North America, he has served in parishes in Massachusetts, California, and Illinois. Jordan Wessling is Assistant Professor of Religion at Lindsey Wilson College. His articles have appeared in journals such as the International Journal of Systematic Theology, Faith & Philosophy, Zygon, Theology and Science, and the International Journal of Philosophy of Religion. His book, Love Divine: A Systematic Account of God's Love for Humanity, was published by Oxford University Press in 2021, and, with Oliver Crisp and James Arcadi, he authored The Nature and Promise of Analytic Theology (2019) and edited Love, Divine and Human: Contemporary Essays in Systematic and Philosophical Theology (2019).Buy the book from Wellington Square Bookshop - https://www.wellingtonsquarebooks.com/book/9780192859044
Dr. Alan Weissenbacher joins the conversation to provide strategies and tools to help us achieve meaningful change. In his book The Brain Change Program, he merges neuroscience with biblical wisdom and leads readers through his six-step program. Dr. Weissenbacher served many years as a chaplain at the Denver Rescue Mission, where he helped homeless addicts by removing them from an urban setting, empowering them to operate a farm, and providing them counseling, spiritual care, and job training. His work with these clients inspires his research into neuroscience, spiritual formation, and methods of improving spiritual lives, religious care, and addiction recovery. He has published chapters in books on the subjects of science, religion, and ethics with Vernon Press and ATF Press. He has also published a chapter on neuroscience and the human person in the second edition of the textbook Science and Religion: A Historical Introduction, as well as articles in the academic journals Dialog, Theology and Science, Wesleyan Theological Journal, and Zygon. Alan currently works as a stay-at-home dad to two young boys while he writes, guest lectures, and consults. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
What is the Osgood Box and how does this mysterious device factor into one of the Twelfth Doctor's greatest moments? Join us as we discuss The Zygon Inversion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 8. The Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 313. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twitch and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. A special thanks to listener MH for the feedback on Episode 312.
What is the Osgood Box and how does this mysterious device factor into one of the Twelfth Doctor's greatest moments? Join us as we discuss The Zygon Inversion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 8. The Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 313. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twitch and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. A special thanks to listener MH for the feedback on Episode 312.
What is the Osgood Box and how does this mysterious device factor into one of the Twelfth Doctor's greatest moments? Join us as we discuss The Zygon Inversion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 8. The Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 313. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twitch and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. A special thanks to listener MH for the feedback on Episode 312.
What is the Osgood Box and how does this mysterious device factor into one of the Twelfth Doctor's greatest moments? Join us as we discuss The Zygon Inversion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 8. The Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 313. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twitch and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. A special thanks to listener MH for the feedback on Episode 312.
What is the Osgood Box and how does this mysterious device factor into one of the Twelfth Doctor’s greatest moments? Join us as we discuss The Zygon Inversion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 8. The Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 313. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twitch and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. A special thanks to listener MH for the feedback on Episode 312. Episode 313 What is the Osgood Box and how does this mysterious device factor into one of the Twelfth Doctor’s greatest moments? Join us as we discuss The Zygon Inversion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 8. The Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 313. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twitch and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. A special thanks to listener MH for the feedback on Episode 312. What are your thoughts? Hit us up at hosts@discussingnetwork or @discussingwho on all the social media. We want to hear from you! Leave us a voicemail message on the Discussing Who Call Line. Simply dial (805)850-DWHO (3946). (Airtime and/or long-distance rates apply, if applicable.) Already following us on Facebook? Simply send a message there. Subscribe to Discussing Who: A Doctor Who Podcast Apple Podcasts – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoApplePodcast Spotify – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoSpotify Stitcher – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoStitcher Google Podcasts – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoGooglePodcast PlayerFM – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoPlayerFM TuneIn Radio – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoTuneIn Podbean – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoPodbean Podchaser – https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/discussing-who-a-doctor-who-po-15658 Become a Patreon Supporter! By becoming a Patreon, you can support the show while receiving exclusive rewards made available for Patreon Supporters. Visit Patreon.com/DiscussingNetwork for more information, follow us on Patreon, and – should you choose – support the show. Connect via Social Media Be sure to follow us on Twitter, find us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, and visit our website. Join us on the new Discussing Network Facebook Group. Visit https://facebook.com./groups/discussingnetwork Real Characters Last year we asked ourselves and our listeners a simple but important question: What makes Doctor Who important to you? The answer now lies within the pages of Real Characters: The Psychology of Parasocial Relationships with Media Characters, by Dr. Karen Shackleford, Ph.D. (Ed.) from Fielding University Press providing insight into why we connect with fictional characters. The Doctor Changes, but the Feelings Stay the Same, is the bow-tie-worthy Eleventh Chapter. Real Characters is available now on Amazon. Discussing Who: A Doctor Who Podcast Discussing Who features three friends discussing Doctor Who. Come join the fun! Discussing Network Discussing Network is a network of podcasts covering all things geek and pop culture! Hosts Want more from the Discussing Who co-hosts? Our hosts can be found on the following: The Relativity Podcast (Lee, Clarence, & Kyle) Oz-9 (Lee, Kyle, & Shannon) Doctor Who: Podshock (Kyle & Lee) The TechPedition Podcast (Clarence) Discussing Trek: A Star Trek Discovery Podcast (Clarence & Kyle) Terminus: A Doctor Who Podcast (Nicole)
What is the Osgood Box and how does this mysterious device factor into one of the Twelfth Doctor’s greatest moments? Join us as we discuss The Zygon Inversion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 8. The Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 313. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twitch and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. A special thanks to listener MH for the feedback on Episode 312. Episode 313 What is the Osgood Box and how does this mysterious device factor into one of the Twelfth Doctor’s greatest moments? Join us as we discuss The Zygon Inversion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 8. The Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 313. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twitch and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. A special thanks to listener MH for the feedback on Episode 312. What are your thoughts? Hit us up at hosts@discussingnetwork or @discussingwho on all the social media. We want to hear from you! Leave us a voicemail message on the Discussing Who Call Line. Simply dial (805)850-DWHO (3946). (Airtime and/or long-distance rates apply, if applicable.) Already following us on Facebook? Simply send a message there. Subscribe to Discussing Who: A Doctor Who Podcast Apple Podcasts – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoApplePodcast Spotify – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoSpotify Stitcher – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoStitcher Google Podcasts – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoGooglePodcast PlayerFM – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoPlayerFM TuneIn Radio – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoTuneIn Podbean – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoPodbean Podchaser – https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/discussing-who-a-doctor-who-po-15658 Become a Patreon Supporter! By becoming a Patreon, you can support the show while receiving exclusive rewards made available for Patreon Supporters. Visit Patreon.com/DiscussingNetwork for more information, follow us on Patreon, and – should you choose – support the show. Connect via Social Media Be sure to follow us on Twitter, find us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, and visit our website. Join us on the new Discussing Network Facebook Group. Visit https://facebook.com./groups/discussingnetwork Real Characters Last year we asked ourselves and our listeners a simple but important question: What makes Doctor Who important to you? The answer now lies within the pages of Real Characters: The Psychology of Parasocial Relationships with Media Characters, by Dr. Karen Shackleford, Ph.D. (Ed.) from Fielding University Press providing insight into why we connect with fictional characters. The Doctor Changes, but the Feelings Stay the Same, is the bow-tie-worthy Eleventh Chapter. Real Characters is available now on Amazon. Discussing Who: A Doctor Who Podcast Discussing Who features three friends discussing Doctor Who. Come join the fun! Discussing Network Discussing Network is a network of podcasts covering all things geek and pop culture! Hosts Want more from the Discussing Who co-hosts? Our hosts can be found on the following: The Relativity Podcast (Lee, Clarence, & Kyle) Oz-9 (Lee, Kyle, & Shannon) Doctor Who: Podshock (Kyle & Lee) The TechPedition Podcast (Clarence) Discussing Trek: A Star Trek Discovery Podcast (Clarence & Kyle) Terminus: A Doctor Who Podcast (Nicole)
Our very special guest this month has been working in the film industry for over 30 years. He's written for countless comic franchises including Logan's Run (and his own - Discord), worked as a special effects makeup artist for some of the biggest names in Hollywood, created incredible puppetry for many big-named films, and even won a Saturn award for his own film that he wrote & directed, Encounter (2019). And if all that isn't enough, he even owns a Dalek, a Zygon, and THE original TARDIS console from the 1996 TV Movie! He's Paul J. Salamoff and he joins us to talk about all of these things and of course his love of Doctor Who. Then Paul brings us his Pick of the Month - the iconic CBS anthology series, The Twilight Zone! We discuss at least five personal favorite episodes of Paul's and talk about why the series remains timeless to this day. Join us as we look (spoiler-free!) at this very influential series which you can watch currently in North America on Paramount Plus. And here's a link to Paul's movie, Encounter (currently on Prime Video) and a huge list of comics and books that Paul has written over the years! Encounter (2019) Paul J. Salamoff on Amazon As always, we hope you enjoy the show! whoandcompany@yahoo.com --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/doctorwhoandcompany/support
In a follow-up. to the Day of the Doctor, Doctor Who's 50th anniversary special, the Doctor and Clara come face-to-face with Osgood. But, wait, how can Osgood still be alive? Who is Bonnie? All these questions plus the return of UNIT and Kate Stewart! Join us as we discuss The Zygon Invasion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 7. he Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 312. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twtich and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown.
In a follow-up. to the Day of the Doctor, Doctor Who's 50th anniversary special, the Doctor and Clara come face-to-face with Osgood. But, wait, how can Osgood still be alive? Who is Bonnie? All these questions plus the return of UNIT and Kate Stewart! Join us as we discuss The Zygon Invasion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 7. he Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 312. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twtich and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown.
In a follow-up. to the Day of the Doctor, Doctor Who’s 50th anniversary special, the Doctor and Clara come face-to-face with Osgood. But, wait, how can Osgood still be alive? Who is Bonnie? All these questions plus the return of UNIT and Kate Stewart! Join us as we discuss The Zygon Invasion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 7. he Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 312. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twtich and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. Episode 312 In a follow-up. to the Day of the Doctor, Doctor Who’s 50th anniversary special, the Doctor and Clara come face-to-face with Osgood. But, wait, how can Osgood still be alive? Who is Bonnie? All these questions plus the return of UNIT and Kate Stewart! Join us as we discuss The Zygon Invasion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 7. he Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 312. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twtich and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. What are your thoughts? Hit us up at hosts@discussingnetwork or @discussingwho on all the social media. We want to hear from you! Leave us a voicemail message on the Discussing Who Call Line. Simply dial (805)850-DWHO (3946). (Airtime and/or long-distance rates apply, if applicable.) Already following us on Facebook? Simply send a message there. Subscribe to Discussing Who: A Doctor Who Podcast Apple Podcasts – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoApplePodcast Spotify – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoSpotify Stitcher – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoStitcher Google Podcasts – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoGooglePodcast PlayerFM – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoPlayerFM TuneIn Radio – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoTuneIn Podbean – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoPodbean Podchaser – https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/discussing-who-a-doctor-who-po-15658 Become a Patreon Supporter! By becoming a Patreon, you can support the show while receiving exclusive rewards made available for Patreon Supporters. Visit Patreon.com/DiscussingNetwork for more information, follow us on Patreon, and – should you choose – support the show. Connect via Social Media Be sure to follow us on Twitter, find us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, and visit our website. Join us on the new Discussing Network Facebook Group. Visit https://facebook.com./groups/discussingnetwork Real Characters Last year we asked ourselves and our listeners a simple but important question: What makes Doctor Who important to you? The answer now lies within the pages of Real Characters: The Psychology of Parasocial Relationships with Media Characters, by Dr. Karen Shackleford, Ph.D. (Ed.) from Fielding University Press providing insight into why we connect with fictional characters. The Doctor Changes, but the Feelings Stay the Same, is the bow-tie-worthy Eleventh Chapter. Real Characters is available now on Amazon. Discussing Who: A Doctor Who Podcast Discussing Who features three friends discussing Doctor Who. Come join the fun! Discussing Network Discussing Network is a network of podcasts covering all things geek and pop culture! Hosts Want more from the Discussing Who co-hosts? Our hosts can be found on the following: The Relativity Podcast (Lee, Clarence, & Kyle) Oz-9 (Lee, Kyle, & Shannon) Doctor Who: Podshock (Kyle & Lee) The TechPedition Podcast (Clarence) Discussing Trek: A Star Trek Discovery Podcast (Clarence & Kyle) Terminus: A Doctor Who Podcast (Nicole)
In a follow-up. to the Day of the Doctor, Doctor Who's 50th anniversary special, the Doctor and Clara come face-to-face with Osgood. But, wait, how can Osgood still be alive? Who is Bonnie? All these questions plus the return of UNIT and Kate Stewart! Join us as we discuss The Zygon Invasion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 7. he Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 312. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twtich and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown.
In a follow-up. to the Day of the Doctor, Doctor Who's 50th anniversary special, the Doctor and Clara come face-to-face with Osgood. But, wait, how can Osgood still be alive? Who is Bonnie? All these questions plus the return of UNIT and Kate Stewart! Join us as we discuss The Zygon Invasion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 7. he Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 312. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twtich and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown.
In a follow-up. to the Day of the Doctor, Doctor Who’s 50th anniversary special, the Doctor and Clara come face-to-face with Osgood. But, wait, how can Osgood still be alive? Who is Bonnie? All these questions plus the return of UNIT and Kate Stewart! Join us as we discuss The Zygon Invasion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 7. he Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 312. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twtich and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. Episode 312 In a follow-up. to the Day of the Doctor, Doctor Who’s 50th anniversary special, the Doctor and Clara come face-to-face with Osgood. But, wait, how can Osgood still be alive? Who is Bonnie? All these questions plus the return of UNIT and Kate Stewart! Join us as we discuss The Zygon Invasion, Doctor Who Series 9 Episode 7. he Discussing Network proudly presents Discussing Who Episode 312. This episode streamed live on Facebook, YouTube, and Twtich and is being presented in the original unedited version. Hosted by Kyle Jones, Lee Shackleford, and Clarence Brown. What are your thoughts? Hit us up at hosts@discussingnetwork or @discussingwho on all the social media. We want to hear from you! Leave us a voicemail message on the Discussing Who Call Line. Simply dial (805)850-DWHO (3946). (Airtime and/or long-distance rates apply, if applicable.) Already following us on Facebook? Simply send a message there. Subscribe to Discussing Who: A Doctor Who Podcast Apple Podcasts – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoApplePodcast Spotify – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoSpotify Stitcher – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoStitcher Google Podcasts – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoGooglePodcast PlayerFM – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoPlayerFM TuneIn Radio – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoTuneIn Podbean – http://bit.ly/DiscWhoPodbean Podchaser – https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/discussing-who-a-doctor-who-po-15658 Become a Patreon Supporter! By becoming a Patreon, you can support the show while receiving exclusive rewards made available for Patreon Supporters. Visit Patreon.com/DiscussingNetwork for more information, follow us on Patreon, and – should you choose – support the show. Connect via Social Media Be sure to follow us on Twitter, find us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, and visit our website. Join us on the new Discussing Network Facebook Group. Visit https://facebook.com./groups/discussingnetwork Real Characters Last year we asked ourselves and our listeners a simple but important question: What makes Doctor Who important to you? The answer now lies within the pages of Real Characters: The Psychology of Parasocial Relationships with Media Characters, by Dr. Karen Shackleford, Ph.D. (Ed.) from Fielding University Press providing insight into why we connect with fictional characters. The Doctor Changes, but the Feelings Stay the Same, is the bow-tie-worthy Eleventh Chapter. Real Characters is available now on Amazon. Discussing Who: A Doctor Who Podcast Discussing Who features three friends discussing Doctor Who. Come join the fun! Discussing Network Discussing Network is a network of podcasts covering all things geek and pop culture! Hosts Want more from the Discussing Who co-hosts? Our hosts can be found on the following: The Relativity Podcast (Lee, Clarence, & Kyle) Oz-9 (Lee, Kyle, & Shannon) Doctor Who: Podshock (Kyle & Lee) The TechPedition Podcast (Clarence) Discussing Trek: A Star Trek Discovery Podcast (Clarence & Kyle) Terminus: A Doctor Who Podcast (Nicole)
This week my new series re-watch reaches Doctor Who: The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion You may wish to contribute to the show's running costs, it's Patreon is here https://www.patreon.com/tdrury or buy me a coffee here https://ko-fi.com/timdrury The show is also on Facebook please join the group for exclusive behind the scenes insights and of course also discuss and feedback on the show https://www.facebook.com/groups/187162411486307/ If you want to send me comments or feedback you can email them to tdrury2003@yahoo.co.uk or contact me on twitter where I'm @tdrury or send me a friend request and your comments to facebook where I'm Tim Drury and look like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/tdrury/3711029536/in/set-72157621161239599/ in case you were wondering.
The podcrasher Tim Price of the Outcasters Podcast, Allen of www.boldoutlaw.com and A.J. talk about The Zygon Inversion, where the balance of the human race and Zygon existence are in the balance. What did you think about Peter Capaldi's performance in this one? Did you think the use of the Zygons were well explained or useful in this two part story? What about the performance of Jenna Coleman in this duo role? Contact us at www.thehuntresspodcast.com Twitter @sogallifrey prydonian.post@gmail.com www.patreon.com/wrightonnetwork
Another bonus episode of A State of Temporal Grace, where we discuss the 3rd installment of our Zygon saga with the Zygon Invasion. Truth or Consequences! What are your memories of the episode and series 9 in general? Please let us know your throughts at prydonian.post@gmail.com X @sogallifrey www.thehuntresspodcast.com www.patreon.com/wrightonnetwork
We're back with the first of our exclusive chats with Character Options' Al Dewar, in 2024. This episode, we're chatting about the original wave of classic series figures, released in 2008, with the Fourth Doctor, Fifth Doctor, Sixth Doctor, SV7, D84, the Zygon, a Sea Devil, Magnus Greel and Mr Sin, plus the Giant Robot! We also bring you the full story of what happened to The Web of Fear Yeti figure. Kenny and Dave discuss their memories of when this wave first appeared.
In this episode of the State of Temporal Grace, the Wright On Network is doing a mini-series on the televised Zygon appearances. Allen Wright of www.boldoutlaw.com and Straight Outta the Federation: A Blakes 7 Podcast and Tim Price of The Outcasters Podcast join the discussion where the T.A.R.D.I.S. team, The Doctor, Sarah Jane and Harry - plus U.N.I.T., take the adventure to Scotland, where there is an underder water menace, a peculiar threat amongst the townspeople and a good-bye to a friend. Contact us at prydonian.post@gmail.com X @sogallifrey www.thehuntresspodcast.com www.patreon.com/wrightonnetwork
Aw, how can you not LOVE guest Daisy Connolly's choice for this one - but let's not spoiler you here. Host Toby plays Spot The Extra (in this case, James Muir again), celebrates the Zygon design (of course), and adores this short lived TARDIS team. Oh it's so good this, and it takes a certain generation back to their childhood - and in Toby's case into a long, stuttering monologue with uncompleted metaphors. No change there then. Please support these podcasts on Patreon, where you will get advance releases, exclusive content (including a patron-only podcast - Far Too Much Information), regular AMAs and more. Tiers start from as little as £3 per month. patreon.com/tobyhadoke Or there is Ko-fi for the occasional donation with no commitments: ko-fi.com/tobyhadoke Follow Toby on Twitter @tobyhadoke And these podcasts @HadokePodcasts And his comedy club @xsmalarkey www.tobyhadoke.com for news, blog, mailing list and more.
Doctor Who The Zygon Invasion Prologue -Chapter 1
ORIGINAL AIR DATE: Feb. 14, 2017This episode focuses on entheogens—psychedelic drugs that are known to cause “mystical states” of consciousness. Our hosts discuss Rick Strassman's work on DMT, but that is merely a subset of entheogen study. Current research in the fields of brain science, psychology, and religion are struggling to explain how entheogens and the experiences they cause should be understood. The dilemma of consciousness, more popularly known as the mind-body problem, is at the heart of the struggle. Do entheogens simply affect part of the brain and its chemistry triggering new states of consciousness from inside your head? Or do these drugs separate consciousness from the organ of the body we call the brain, verifying that consciousness is distinct from the brain? Are God and other supernatural beings experienced by people under the effect of entheogens just a product of the brain, or are they entities to be experienced by unhindered consciousness?Articles:Peter Bebergal, “Mystics Under the Microscope,” Search Magazine (January-February 2009): 35-39Ron Cole-Turner, “Entheogens, Mysticism, and Neuroscience,” Zygon, vol. 49:3 (September 2014): 642-651Leonard Hummel, “By its Fruits? Mystical and Visionary States of Consciousness Occasioned by Entheogens,” Zygon, vol. 49, no. 3 (September 2014) : 685-695Michael Lerner and Michael Lyvers, “Values and Beliefs of Psychedelic Drug Users: A Cross-Cultural Study,” Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 38:2 (June 2006): 143-147David P. Luke and Marios Kittenis, “A Preliminary Survey of Paranormal Experiences with Psychoactive Drugs,” The Journal of Parapsychology 69:2 (2005): 305-327W.A. Richards, “Here and Now: Discovering the Sacred with Entheogens,” Zygon 49:3 (Sept, 2014):652-665This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/4656375/advertisement
On the brand new Trap One Podcast Adam (@AdamJClegg), Ruth, (@UndiscoveredAdv), Colin (@Colin_neal) and Mark (@QuarkMcMalus) discuss the new Target novelisation of The Zygon Invasion by Peter Harness. You can order the book here.
Jimmy Akin, Dom Bettinelli, and Fr. Cory Sticha discuss the conclusion to the 12th Doctor's Zygon invasion story, including themes of forgiveness, justice, and war; some inconsistent logic and character motivations; and the joy of seeing the Osgoods again.
Jimmy Akin, Dom Bettinelli, and Fr. Cory Sticha discuss the conclusion to the 12th Doctor's Zygon invasion story, including themes of forgiveness, justice, and war; some inconsistent logic and character motivations; and the joy of seeing the Osgoods again. The post The Zygon Inversion appeared first on StarQuest Media.
The Power of 3 concludes its current batch of interviews with the writers of the 2023 Target novelisations with this episode. We're joined by Peter Harness, who tells us about scripting the original TV two-parter, as well as adapting it to the printed page. Kenny and Steevie discuss the Zygons, and why they're so beloved by the people of Scotland... they're Scotland's monsters!
Who doesn't love an Osgood episode? Jimmy Akin and Dom Bettinelli discuss this tale of good and bad Zygons, the hidden enemies (and friends) living among us, and the inevitable Truth or Consequences.
Who doesn't love an Osgood episode? Jimmy Akin and Dom Bettinelli discuss this tale of good and bad Zygons, the hidden enemies (and friends) living among us, and the inevitable Truth or Consequences. The post The Zygon Invasion appeared first on StarQuest Media.
L'année dernière, aussi surprenant que cela puisse paraître, un américain en pyjama a réussi à faire tomber l'Internet de la Corée du Nord depuis son salon. Heureusement, il n'y a pas eu de représailles contre les États-Unis. Mais Kim Jong Un et ses généraux l'avaient mauvaise et ont du se demander si le hacker en pantoufles n'était pas une couverture pour une attaque américaine planifiée et officielle.Jamais la menace cyber n'a été aussi forte et il est presque certain qu'une cyber attaque majeure aura lieu en 2023. Elle pourrait paralyser les aéroports, les trains, les hôpitaux, l'armée ou faire basculer une élection. C'est terrifiant, car à chaque fois que cela se produit, il y a toujours le risque d'une escalade. La menace cyber a çà de particulier qu'elle ne coûte pas grand chose… du coup tout le monde peut s'en emparer que l'on soit une grande puissance ou un état parias.La cybercriminalité fait de plus en plus la une des journaux mais la cybercriminalité ne touche pas seulement les nations. Les cybercriminels ciblent les particuliers aussi implacablement que les grandes entreprises et organisations faisant de nous des cibles potentielles et vulnérables.On fait le point avec Kevin Smouts, co-fondateur de Zygon, sur les menaces cyber qui planent au-dessus de nos têtes...Sommaire de l'émission :Les différents visages de la menace cyberPetite histoire de la guerre cyberCyber attaques, les signes avant-coureur de la guerre conventionnelle…Les individus ne sont pas conscients des risques cyberL'essor de la cybercriminalitéLe rôle de l'Intelligence ArtificielleN'oubliez pas d'acheter le NFT de l'émission, il ne coûte que $5 ! Au-delà de montrer votre soutien à Silicon Carne, ce NFT vous permet d'accéder à toutes les notes de l'émission ainsi qu'au Comité Éditorial de Silicon Carne. Çà se passe sur : https://siliconcarne.uncut.network
With Special Guest Dr. Jeremy Blaschke, Assistant Professor of Science at Union University, Todd and Paul discuss the wonders of the parasite world. What we see as gross and disgusting are possibly beautiful from God's point of view. Todd and Paul learn about how some creatures thought to be parasites can be beneficial to their hosts. Special Guest Dr. Jeremy Blaschke is an Assistant Professor of Science at Union University in Jackson, TN. He is an entomologist who studies parasitoid wasps and other parasites found in God's creation. He has several publications and enjoys supervising undergraduate research projects. https://www.uu.edu/dept/biology/faculty/jeremy-blaschke.cfm Resources Mentioned in the Podcast Jeremy Blashke. 2022 Parasite Soup: Faith and Science in the History of Parasitology. Zygon. https://doi.org/10.1111/zygo.12770 Biography of Francesco Redi. https://www.britannica.com/science/spontaneous-generation Support the Podcast Donate to Core Academy at https://coresci.org/donate Donate to Biblical Creation Trust at: https://www.paypal.com/donate?token=XQhAUAAopLFEGls1aTiU1YItTqIRJ2SuBgrGZt-b_Z4ZQuvm8kN3tLB82CDpIxFE_Q--aiVB7PyF0cf1 Email us with comments or questions at: podcast@coresci.org Check us out on social media and consider donating to support this podcast Core Academy of Science Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/coresci.org Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coreacademyofscience/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/CoreacadInfo Website: https://coresci.org/ Biblical Creation Trust Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/biblicalcreationtrust Twitter: https://twitter.com/bct_origins Website: https://www.biblicalcreationtrust.org/ For questions and comments email podcast@coresci.org Please consider supporting this work by going to https://coresci.org/connect or https://biblicalcreationtrust.org *Disclaimer: Things mentioned in the Show Notes are not endorsements of people, places, or things discussed in the podcast, but rather a record of what was spoken about and helpful links to material for our listeners.
The lads are joined by @TurdFurgesonn to discuss a hugely popular Peter Capaldi two-parter!FOLLOW US!@SJPWORLDMEDIA@TheDrWhoPod@DanGriffin21
As alien baddies go, the Zygons are one of the more nuanced races that have tried to take over the Earth. Turns out they want to just live in peace and chill, man — just like the rest of us. That's some nice background for The Zygon Invasion/Inversion, a story that focuses on the extremists among us who are determined to stir up animosity to further their own idealized vision of how society should be. Kinda sounds relevant, but it's going to take a speech for the ages, delivered by a leading actor in top form, to really get us to fully absorb it. Something tells us it's gonna be OK. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Follow us on: TikTok! @pulltoopen Instagram: @pulltoopen63 Twitter: @pulltoopen63 YouTube: youtube.com/pulltoopen Story Essentials Series 9, Episodes 7 and 8 Story number: 261, per the The Pull To Open Codex Production Code: 9.07, 9.08 Writer: Peter Harness (Invasion and Inversion), Steven Moffat (Inversion) Showrunner: Moffat Aired 31 October - 7 November 2015 Pull To Open: The Zygon Invasion | The Zygon Inversion Season 3 Episode 40 Hosts: Pete Pachal and Chris Taylor Feedback loop and interlude music: Martin West/Thinking Fish Outro music: Chronos by Alexander Nakarada
This lecture was given on October 15, 2022 as part of the Fall Thomistic Circles conference, "Life in the Cosmos: Contemporary Science, Philosophy, and Theology on the Origin and Persistence of Life on Earth(and Beyond?)." The two-day conference at the Dominican House of Studies in Washington, D.C. featured a stellar, cross-disciplinary lineup of speakers: scientists Jonathan Lunine (Cornell University) and Maureen Condic (University of Utah), philosopher Christopher Frey (University of South Carolina), and theologian Fr. Mauriusz Tabaczek, O.P. (Angelicum). This conference is part of the Thomistic Institute's Scientia Project. For more information on upcoming events, visit thomisticinstitute.org About the speaker: Fr. Mariusz Tabaczek, O.P. is a Polish Dominican and theologian. He holds a Ph.D. in philosophical theology from the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, CA and a Church Licentiate from the Adam Mickiewicz University in Poznan, Poland. After his studies at the GTU and a fellowship at the Notre Dame Institute for Advanced Studies, he returned to Poland. For three years he worked as a researcher at the Thomistic Institute in Warsaw, a lecturer at the Pontifical Faculty of Theology in Warsaw and the Dominican School of Philosophy and Theology in Krakow, and a director of the Studium Dominicanum in Warsaw. He then moved to Rome where he serves as a professor of theology at the Angelicum and a researcher for the Thomistic Institute Angelicum. He is interested in the science-theology dialogue, especially in the issues concerning science and creation theology, divine action, and evolutionary theory. His research also goes to other subjects related to systematic, fundamental, and natural theology, philosophy of nature, philosophy of science (philosophy of biology, in particular), philosophy of causation, and metaphysics. His works address a whole range of topics, including: the notion of species, metaphysics of evolutionary transitions, concurrence of divine and natural causes in evolutionary transitions, definition and role of chance and teleology in evolution, classical and new hylomorphism, classical and contemporary (analytical) concepts of causation, emergence, science-oriented panentheism and its critique, and various aspects of divine action in the universe. He published a number of articles on metaphysics and the issues concerning the relation between theology and science in Zygon, Theology and Science, Scientia et Fides, Nova et Vetera, Forum Philosophicum, American Catholic Philosophical Quarterly, Sophia, and Polish Annals of Philosophy. He coauthored two chapters in the second edition of Science and Religion: A Historical Introduction (ed. by Gary Ferngren) and has written the entry on “Emergence” for the PalgraveEncyclopedia of the Possible. He is also the author of two monographs. The first, entitled Emergence: Towards A New Metaphysics and Philosophy of Science, was published in 2019 and was announced as one of the best metaphysics books to read in 2019 by Bookauthority. The second book, Divine Action and Emergence: An Alternative to Panentheism (published in 2021), offers a critical analysis of the theory of divine action based on the notion of emergent phenomena and provides a constructive proposal of a theological reinterpretation of divine action in emergence from the point of view of the Aristotelian-Thomistic tradition of philosophy and theology.
Episode 104 Today we welcome the Rev Dr David Wilkinson all the way from Durham, England. Dr Wilkinson is an ordained Methodist minister with PhDs in Systematic Theology and Theoretical Astrophysics. In addition to working for St John's College, he is the project director of “Equipping Christian Leadership in an Age of Science” which seeks to do exactly what the name implies. We talk about their surprising research into Christian leaders' attitudes towards science, how to think about biblical miracles, how to have constructive dialogue, and what happens when you put bishops in a room full of humanoid robots. This is an engaging, heartfelt, and inspiring conversation, and we're excited to bring it to you. ECLAS - https://www.eclasproject.org/ Reid, Lydia and Wilkinson, David. (2021.) ‘Building Enthusiasm and Overcoming Fear: Engaging with Christian Leaders in an Age of Science', Zygon 56 (4). https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/toc/14679744/2021/56/4 Support this podcast on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/DowntheWormholepodcast More information at https://www.downthewormhole.com/ produced by Zack Jackson music by Zack Jackson and Barton Willis Check out Zack and Nichole's new podcast "Reimagining Faith with the Pastors Jackson" here... https://www.patreon.com/reimaginingfaith https://reimaginingfaith.podbean.com/ Transcript This transcript was automatically generated by www.otter.ai, and as such contains errors (especially when multiple people are talking). As the AI learns our voices, the transcripts will improve. We hope it is helpful even with the errors. Zack Jackson 00:00 Hey there, Zack here. Before we get to today's episode, which is so good, by the way, I wanted to let you know that my wife, Nicole, and I just launched a new podcast called reimagining faith with the pastor's Jackson. I haven't really shared a whole lot about this on the podcast yet. But we both just quit our church jobs, and are in the process of planting a new faith community called Open Table United Church of Christ. At this new faith community were committed to being theologically progressive, locally minded with Jesus at the center. We're starting from scratch. And we are rethinking every part about what it means to be a community of faith in this particular moment in history. We are really excited about the ways that the Spirit is moving among our little team. And we wanted a way to share that with you all as well. Hence, the reimagining faith podcast, we'll be posting new episodes every week, delving into our particular convictions, telling stories, interviewing difference makers and giving you an inside peek into the messy and ridiculous process of planting a church that is not quite a church, but it's also kind of a church, but not really, you know, it'll probably make a lot more sense after you hear a few episodes of it. So why don't you just go ahead and subscribe. Just search for reimagining faith with the pastor's Jackson wherever it is that you get your podcasts. And if you want to help us expand to this work, you can support us at patreon.com/reimagining faith. And now, on to the podcast. You are listening to the down the wormhole podcast exploring the strange and fascinating relationship between science and religion. Our guest today is the current principal of St. John's College Durham and a professor in the Department of theology and religion. He has PhDs in both theoretical astrophysics and systematic theology, having served as both a Methodist minister and an academic professor. He's also the project director of equipping Christian leadership in an age of science, which is a project whose goals are near and dear to my heart. And I'm sure many of yours as well. It is my privilege to introduce the Reverend David Wilkinson. Welcome to the podcast. Thank David Wilkinson 02:19 you, Zack, it's so lovely to be here. Lovely to talk to you. Zack Jackson 02:24 Yes, I'm so glad that we were able to coordinate across the ocean, get our time zones correct and, and that you're able to be with us today I am fascinated by just the breadth of the work that you have done and that you are doing with the organizations that you're associated with. And so, again, it's an honor to have you here with us. So I mentioned in that that introduction, equipping Christian leadership in an age of science, or EC L A s do you do pronounce the acronym when when you're in a company, David Wilkinson 03:01 about team pronounces it in class, and part of our team pronounces it at class. And we haven't come to agreement on what the correct pronunciation is. So I'm happy with the project. Zack Jackson 03:15 Did any of you consider switching the acronym the words around so it would spell something like Eclair or something that well, David Wilkinson 03:22 as you can see, remember and see from me, I'm very open to a close and as many as possible, probably too many for me. But, I mean, you know, sometimes theology and science is dominated by some of these acronyms. I think what we've been concerned about has been that sense of equipping Christian leadership. And about almost 10 years ago, my friend and colleague Tom McLeish, who's a theoretical physicist and a lay theologian, and I were speculating about what happened when senior Christian leaders, such as bishops, or leaders of other denominations, or leaders of parachurch organizations, those organizations that span different churches, were asked about science. And one of the things that we noticed was that senior church leaders often responded with fear, or negativity, or silence. And the problem with that is that then those who serve as Christian leaders under them, if they come from a scientific background, if your senior leader responds with fear or negativity or silence, then that doesn't really affirm what you're bringing to ministry, in terms of your interest or passion about science. And then that ripples down into congregations, where disciples who live out their lives with a vocation to be scientists, technologists are in Engineers, they're not affirmed in their vocation. And of course, that then ripples out to reinforce this very dominant model of relationship between science and religion, that conflict model of science and religion or independence, that the two have to be separated. And so we thought, Is there a project to be done where we can equip Christian leaders to engage with science with joy, with humility, with confidence with excitement? And that would have a ripple down effect throughout the church? Zack Jackson 05:36 Yes, I mentioned I resonate with this. This is the this is the project that I'm working on for my doctrine ministry program right now, creating resources for pastors to engage, to equip them to have these conversations because it is just so important. So in what ways have since you started this program? How have you been able to start equipping leaders, David Wilkinson 06:00 one of the things we first realized sack was the importance of personal relationships and conversations. And so we started with, with conferences, where we would invite a small group of senior leaders, intentionally inviting them to come here to Durham. And we would take them into science departments, where we introduce them to world class scientists. Now, sometimes, in this work, organizations will choose a scientist who happens to be a Christian. We didn't do that. We just went for world class scientists, whatever their religious backgrounds, and we threw the bishops into their labs. And we got these people to talk about their own science and their work. And it was just terrific from cosmology and simulating universes through to biology, genetics, we even had one wonderful incident where we took 30 bishops into one of our engineering labs here in Durham, where we have small robots, six of them, artificial intelligent robots, humanoid robots, and the bishops were kind of pressed against the wall. Worried about this, these little robots who are wandering round, and the robots went up to the bishops, and started to talk to them. And suddenly the bishops move towards the center of the room, as they started conversing with these robots. And I wish I'd had a video camera to show you. And in a sense, we start with with bishops who are a little worried about science. And slowly they move into the center. And part of that is talking to research students, and talking with professors, and actually seeing that these folk work in science, because they're passionate about finding out about the universe, or they're passionate about helping society and other people, that some of the the big, bad images of science are not quite true when you meet scientists themselves. And we brought into that conversation, then theologians into the conference, to help decode some of the issues of play within the interplay of science and theology. And so this bringing together of people to talk together, and what we found, was after the sessions, the bishops were thrilled to have encountered science. And the scientists were thrilled to encounter bishops, and other senior church leaders who took science seriously. And many of the scientists without any Christian commitment turned up at the bar later on in the conference, to talk more with the bishops. I think there's something really important about that kind of interaction of people, that learning not just about the science in the abstract, but science in terms of it being done by scientists. And then we thought to ourselves, Well, there's one or two other things that we really need to do about this. So we've had a research strand, where we've interviewed 1000, clergy and a number of bishops and senior church leaders about what they really think about science. That's been an important thing. And we might want to go on to some of those findings in a little bit. We've also followed the US in a program called Science for seminaries and working with church leaders are beginning of their ministries. And then we wanted to provide some model situations where people could see how a local congregation could use the scientists within their congregations to do something fruitful for the kingdom, either for the church or for the community. And we call that scientists in congregations. And that's a program that's been used in lots of different parts of the world. And then the final strand that we've done, which is peculiar to the UK, in the UK, the Church of England is the established church. It has a lot of political and media presence. There are bishops in the House of Lords, for example, scrutinizing legislation. And so we embedded a team member within the church of England's work in that area, to assist on some of the questions such as fracking, or AI, that are going through legislation to help Christian leaders give sensible voices within the public debate. So those are some of the things that we've been really excited by Zach. Zack Jackson 11:07 Oh, wow. Yeah, that that sounds very exciting. I would, I would venture to say that most congregations have at least one professional scientist within it, whether they, they're open about that or not. But I'm curious about the ways that your program has, has used scientists within congregations, how are you using those those gifts of people? David Wilkinson 11:32 I think, I think that's a really crucial question. And so let me give you some for instances of some of the projects that we've supported. So we've supported a project called Take your vicar into the lab, where a number of scientists in the congregation have said to their church leader, why don't you come into our workplace, and we'll tell you about what we do day by day. And again, we're talking about people with vocation, and a very different context to what happens in the church on a Sunday. One group of scientists have worked with a professional theatre group drama group, to write a play on artificial intelligence. And this play will, will tour the country, the 45 minute one act play, then there'll be a coffee break. And then into the venue will come a number of local scientists who work in the area of AI for a question answered on AI and religion and Christianity. Another group we've worked with, has produced some resources for something that we call messy science. Now, in the UK, there's a very strong program called Messy Church, which is a way of doing church, for families with young children. And that involves some crafts, and making things. And what we realized was that actually, there are a number of children who are much happier to blow things up in science experiments, to make craft activities. And so we've we've created a book called Messy science, which is scientific experiments that you can do and as part of Messy Church, or indeed, that you can do for an all the family or all age worship on a Sunday, which involves some of the fun of science. Why, for instance, you can take a beaker full of water, and just put a piece of paper at the bottom of it, turn it over, and the water doesn't fall out most of the time. And so these kinds of things is about using the gifts and the passion and the interests of scientists. And I think you're right, like I think virtually every congregation has scientists or teachers of science or technology or engineering within it. But what we're not good at doing is affirming those gifts. So some of the churches I go to, if a young person says the Lord has called me to seminary or Bible college, the congregation will say hallelujah, they will bring that young person to the front. They will so we're going to pray and lay hands on you. And here's a big envelope with money in it to support your expenses. But if a young person in that same congregation says, I'm going to go and study chemistry, I wonder whether that congregation also brings the young person to the front, lay hands on them and gives them a big envelope to help them with their expenses. And I think that's about out, saying science as a gift from God. And to be a scientist is as much a vocation as it is to be a pastor, or to be a missionary. Zack Jackson 15:11 Wow. That is a that is profound. It's I don't think that any churches out there would affirm a child's choosing to become a scientist the way they would be so proud of our little, our little boy who's grown up to be a pastor, and we'd love to help you out in any way we can. But a scientist is essentially seeking out God in just empirical ways through the creation as opposed to David Wilkinson 15:40 theology, Kepler, the great astronomer, once said that science is thinking God's thoughts after him. And what a wonderful way of looking at the universe and that guy became a Christian at the age of 17, just before going up to university to study physics. And early in my Christian life, I kind of realized that if if I say that Jesus is the Lord, then he is Lord of all, not just what I do on a Sunday, but what I do in terms of my interest in mathematics and astrophysics. And so what does it mean to be disciple within that area, as well as what I do in terms of lifestyle with money and relationships, and all the rest of it. And I think that's an area that the church hasn't been good at, in an area that we can work out and help Christian leaders to see science as gift. And the responsibility that that brings. Zack Jackson 16:42 Yes, I wish that more churches had that kind of had that kind of understanding, you know, that that kind of heart and belief. But according to the research that you all have done. That was there was a paper that was published in zeigen, Journal of religion and science, recently, looking at the disconnect between religious leaders interest in science and their willingness to talk about it publicly. There were some very interesting findings in there, would you care to tell us a little bit about David Wilkinson 17:17 Yes, absolutely. And some things that surprised us. We wanted to serve a clergy first of all, and we surveyed about 1000 of them from all different churches and backgrounds. And one of the most surprising things was how often they find themselves talking about science, or engaging with people about science in their ministry. Now, we didn't expect that to be the case. Although looking back on my own ministry, I was a pastor for a decade, in full time, work leading a church. I remember, it was in Liverpool, just off Penny Lane for those who remember the Beatles. And we used to run a luncheon club, where, on a Wednesday lunchtime, we would gather together some elderly folk and provide them with a fairly basic but nutritious and wholesome lunch. And I remember going to a lady who was very elderly, and left school at the age of 14. And I would normally wander around and say hello to people. And I sat down at her table. And she looked at me and said, Now then David, she said, What's this Stephen Hawking and quantum gravity all about? And what does this mean for God? Now, I think sometimes we underestimate the kinds of questions that people have. And so we found that clergy were often addressing questions about the environment, questions about genetics, questions about what does it mean to be human? These big questions, and yet, often, they felt a little bit of a lack of confidence in engaging with these questions. And I think that partly comes from this conflict model, which is so embedded within Western tradition, which you found in the New Atheists. So for Richard Dawkins and others, you now find in many stand up comedians, who also represent the conflict model. But I think sometimes it's also about those subtle messages from the church that has said, Beware of science. And they've often coupled science with images of the Tower of Babel with trying to replace God or atheism. So I think we found that I think we also found and this is, this is something which really fascinated me. And that is the Sometimes the how why distinction becomes a avoidance mechanism for deeper theological questions. What I mean by that, is that when we talk about science and theology, and I often do this myself, we can talk about science about the how, and theology about the why, when it comes to the origin of the universe, for example, my area of, of work and science and, you know, quantum gravity, and is the how of God doing it. Questions of purpose and meaning or value is why, and that's a useful first order distinction. But we found that many senior church leaders were using it as a way to avoid some of the deeper questions. So if you use the how wide distinction, you can perhaps avoid the question, well, how does God really work in the universe? How does God work in healing in miracles in prayer? How is God involved in the laws of physics or not? Now, those can be quite scary questions to folk. But they're important questions for many people. And then I think we I think the third thing that we found was sometimes this fear of certain ways that science has been used, protect, particularly when it comes to theories of evolution. So although there was an openness to assessing scientific theories, there was a sense of those who have used the post Darwinian controversies to argue against Christianity, and to use some scientific theories and evolution and sociobiology. Sometimes I used to argue that once you have a scientific understanding of something, it's nothing but that. So religion could be seen and the way that it's developed, and its socio biological, biological origin. But then that quick move to say, and that's all it is. That's the mistake. So those are some of the things that came out of the research. Zack Jackson 22:23 So I hear the the one idea that science provides the nuts and bolts the understanding of how things work, and religion then gives it the meaning, right, I've heard the illustration that you can learn all you can about the molecular makeup of a chocolate cake, and you can know all about its compounds, but no part of the science can tell you that it's a birthday cake, I'm sorry, that that that then has to come from the meaning. And then I also hear you mentioning, sort of at the end there about the God of the gaps that God develops as a way of explaining the things that we don't understand and has a way of helping us to sleep at night. Giving us a sense of control over the crops, as it were or the movement of the stars and the future and helping us to be less afraid. And as science then explains all of those things, then God gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And that model is just created in such a way that it eliminates itself. It does. And both of those two ways of understanding God are so prevalent, and they both are so limiting. What how do you how do you navigate this world? How do you hold both your faith and your understanding of science in intention in tandem? David Wilkinson 23:47 Yeah. And the sack you've put your finger on it? I think and it's a question that goes back to an old book written by Jeb Phillips, many years ago, which was a book with the title your God is too small. You see, the problem with with God of the Gaps is, as you rightly said, God is too small. And the God that I see in Jesus is not a God who hides in small gaps of scientific ignorance. This is the Lord of all, who is the one who sustains every physical process within the universe. So for me, God is the Creator and Sustainer of the laws of physics. That's the first thing to say. I think secondly, God is big enough that he can sometimes do unusual things, beyond his normal ways of working. And therefore, both as a scientist and a theologian, I'm open to miracle. I'm open to God doing unusual things because I think God is big enough to to go beyond his normal ways of working and special prayer. Within SOS special events, I think the third thing that really helps me to navigate some of this sack is going back to Jesus time and time again. I remember, as a young research student, I've been on a conference in the middle of the summer in the University of Brighton, and Sussex and England. And we were the only people in the university, a group of 40, astrophysics PhD students. And there was only one pub. And so every evening we'd all end up in the same pub. And I remember sitting down with a with a colleague, very, very bright astrophysicist, who within half an hour, had proved to me that God didn't exist. I mean, he just argued against with all the classic arguments against the existence of God. And I remember wandering back to, to the small bedroom I had, and and thinking, Well, you know, I've only been a Christian two or three years. This guy's convinced me that the intellectual argumentation means that God doesn't exist, what am I going to do? And it was that point that by, by my bed on the bedside table was a Bible. I just opened the Bible, and I read again, the Gospels, and I become a Christian, because I'd seen in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, God Himself walk in the pages of history. And there are many questions that I don't have the answers to, there are many intellectual conundrums about the problem of evil, or about how does God actually work in the world, which I don't have easy, simplistic philosophical answers to. But what I see in Jesus is a God who becomes a human being and lives amongst us, in the space time history, a God who participates in the consequences of suffering and evil, he bears them as well as I do. A God who gives me hope, in terms of bodily resurrection, going beyond our normal accepted patterns of what's possible in the world. And a God who actually has a historical record in Palestine, that you and I can sit down and discuss, we might not come to similar conclusions about it. But the data is there for us to discuss it. And so my understanding of science and theology is never simply what we might call the old, big arguments for the existence of God, the design argument, or the First Cause Argument, if I'm authentically Christian, then I have to bring into the conversation. God who reveals Himself in Jesus. And that's been an important part of, of my journey in trying to navigate some of these difficult questions. Zack Jackson 28:14 As a pastor for the past eight and a half years, I not only get questions, nearly weekly, from, especially from the conference, and these teenagers who are thinking through these things in school, but also the adults I, I feel questions from my colleagues almost constantly, who likewise have people asking these questions, and they do not feel equipped to answer them. And so they, they give them you know, shrug shoulders, and I'm sorry, this is just what I believe I'll try to find resources for you. And one of the things that comes up quite often is miracles, when it seemingly when God breaks the rules, yeah. Because even if somebody who values God and values science, they will often just find naturalistic explanations for things. I mean, famously, Thomas Jefferson cut out all of the references of, of miracles in his Bible, and it was much smaller at that point. You know, for example, that if we believe that Jesus in the wedding in Cana and the book of John turned water into wine, using natural processes, I mean, just the fusion of atoms would have created so much energy, it would have leveled all of the Middle East, you know, in a nuclear explosion, and clearly that did not happen. So, either there was a sort of social miracle in which Jesus inspired people to run out to the liquor store, or there is something else happening something super natural. You've done a little bit of work into into miracles and what happens in prayer and things like that. Do you have any insights that you could offer to As clergy out there, David Wilkinson 30:01 well, I have some insights, whether they're useful or not is another question. Zack Jackson 30:07 Oh, the story of my life, I'll put that on my tombstone. David Wilkinson 30:11 I think the first thing to say is that I want to take the gospel writers seriously. And I think sometimes Western scholarship has been rather patronizing to the writers of the Gospel by saying that they simply have rewritten the stories of social miracles, in terms of supernatural miracles, you know, and so, even more extreme would be those who've written that Jesus walking on the waters was actually because he was on a sand bank at the time. Well, I mean, you know, fishermen would know where the sand banks would be, and things of that sort, I think, the Gospel writers are being authentic in terms of what they believed, and I want to take that seriously. And then secondly, there is a granularity about some of the gospel reports, which suggests to me that they aren't simply made up to express theological truth about Jesus. So for instance, you mentioned the wedding at Cana, one of the one of the extraordinary things about that miracle is that Jesus turned between 120 gallons, 280 gallons of water into wine. Now, that that's, that's not the kind of usual detail that you would expect, in terms of if you'd simply wanted a miracle of water into wine, there's something really quite extraordinary about that unexpected about it. And I think there are a number of the miracle stories which just have that ring of truth about them. Now, that's the biblical scholarship at one level, which I think is important for us to do. I think then, as a scientist, I want to come with a number of convictions. The first is that 20th century physics tells us that the universe is far more subtle, and subtle than we ever imagined it to be. We live with the legacy of Isaac Newton's clockwork universe, where the universe is picture herbal, and predictable. And so the transformation of God has rules which he can't break, is based on that clockwork universe. But in the 20th century, as you well know, quantum theory, and then chaotic or complex systems, like the weather, we discovered that actually, the universe is not as picture trouble or as predictable as that clockwork universe was. Now, I don't want to push that too far to say, well, this is where God works in quantum systems. But I do want to take seriously as John Polkinghorne used to say, these things remind us of the danger of the tyranny of model of common sense. Our everyday experience and common sense isn't a good guide to the way the universe actually is, or indeed how God might work in the universe. And then I think coming back to that sense of the God who created the laws, has agency to work in through and beyond the laws is a very important theological question. And that maintaining of some limited agency, for God to work means that, that I'm open to God work in unusual ways. Now, all of that is not to say that I don't think there's an interesting question, as a scientist about where the energy comes from. I want to ask that question. And as a scientist, I want to say, when people claim evidence for healing, or evidence for the resurrection of Jesus, what is that evidence? And let's have an honest and serious conversation about it. I think that's important. But I don't think that all of those things need to be talked about in the round. I don't think that one of these things rules out the possibility of miracles. And so I know that's a very long answer to a very succinct question. But I think sometimes we get ourselves fascinated with wanting to give one line answers to actually very difficult questions. And one of the real problems of miracle for me, is actually not besides The real problem of miracle for me is, if God can work by miracle, why can't he do it more often? And in more serious ways, you know, so the Christian who says, I drove to the supermarket, and it was raining, and there was no parking spaces. But I prayed to the Lord, and suddenly a parking space was there for me. Now, apparently, I want to say to that Christian sister or brother, well, wonderful. But, Lord, why provide a parking space when actually, you know for that particular sister or brother, they could have done with a little extra walk, compared to what's happening with COVID? Or what's happening in Ukraine? And that's the problem of evil. And sec, I don't have any real answer to that. That's one of the big questions that I have. For when I see the Lord face to face. But I'm not prepared to reject the biblical evidence or the scientific openness. Because I can't fully understand the problem of evil, but I want to take it seriously. Zack Jackson 36:16 That is a fantastic point. I think our anyone out there who's a religious leader has probably heard that second argument far more, you know, you hear stories of healing, and then I prayed for my mother to be healed and she wasn't healed. And then, then you have, you know, is the problem, my fate? Did I not pray properly? Did does, am I not favored by God? David Wilkinson 36:41 And that's profound, profound, isn't it and that, and what that means, and that's where, for me, the what I sometimes call the messiness of the Bible, is really important. Because, you know, we have instances within the Bible itself, when Paul, for example, prays three times, about this thorn in the flesh that he has, and he's not healed. When, when we have this unusual incident of when Jesus is called by Mary and Martha, that his friend Lazarus is sick. And Jesus didn't immediately go and heal Lazarus. There's indications in Mark's gospel of times when the whole town or village were brought for healing. And Mark says, many of them were healed, not all of them. Now, that for me actually embeds this problem, not just in our experience, but there is a mystery going on within scripture itself. And, and the thing with Scripture is, it doesn't always give us the answer. I mean, I would love it. If Paul had provided not yet another letter, but a chapter entitled frequently asked questions. been brilliant. The apostle Paul had had a chapter on frequently answered questions, asked questions. And, and one of them would be the problem of evil. But of course, Scripture works often in narratives, in telling of testimony of story. And it's not the place where we get easy answers and philosophical theology. But it's important that our philosophical theology takes those stories seriously. Zack Jackson 38:42 I can't imagine Paul trying to succinctly answer any question. Yes, let's say this is the man who spoke for so long that a boy fell asleep and fell out a window. Which, by the way, you know, he was able to raise this child back from the dead, but couldn't cure his own problem. preacher once told me that Lazarus still died. Yes. And that that sticks with me anytime I think about miracles. So aside from that, aside from the miracles, what do you think it's important that religious leaders should understand and, and in terms of science, and how can they possibly keep up with all of the new research not being scientists themselves? David Wilkinson 39:34 I think both of those questions are really important. So let me take the second one. First, I'll come back to the first one. I don't think this is about equipping Christian leaders in terms of knowledge of science. I think this is about changing attitudes. So that as new science comes about, new discoveries are made new questions arise. Most religious leaders can encounter it, not with fear. But with a sense of, first of all, that this doesn't undermine faith. And second, that they already have resources within their own congregations that can help them. And we've talked already about the role and the vocation of those who are lay Christians and scientists. This is a terrific resource that God has given to every church leader from, you know, teenagers who are fascinated with the questions of science through to those who are at cutting edge research level. And so part of I think the change in attitudes, is that the church leader begins to see that ministry in this area is not just about them. But it's about the body of Christ together, relating to some of these questions. But in order to access that the initial response to science has to be changed away from fear into a humble listening to what's going on. Now, I think, to come back to the to the first question, I think, then there are some big questions for the next decade. And I think one of the biggest questions, which you and I have talked about before, is the question of what it means to be human. You know, I think we've gone through some of the interest and some of the big questions about origins, Big Bang, evolution, those types of questions, Christians still have different views on them. And we'll still keep continuing talking about them. But the central question of what it means to be human, I think is going to be highlighted in lots of different ways. For example, will artificial intelligence become conscious at some stage? If we discover extraterrestrial intelligence? What does that mean for human beings? The mind brain relationship, as we know more about what the relationship between mind and brain is all about? What does that mean, to be human? And, you know, even the Human Genome Project, that if I share 67% of my genes with cauliflower, which you can probably tell by looking at me, then, where's the distinction and being human? Now, I think, in lots of different ways in medical science through to what the James Webb Telescope is going to produce. That question of what it means to be human, is a central question for culture, for society, and for theology. Now, I think the great thing about the Christian faith for me, is that actually the question what it means to be human is a central theological question. It's been explored by generations of theologians down the ages. And one of the fascinating things for me is that it's not defined in the Christian tradition, by what I'm made of. It's defined by who I'm related to. So for me, the question of what it means to be human is a gift from God, a gift of intimate relationship, a gift of responsibility, a gift of creativity. So that to be human is not undermined by better understandings of what I'm physically made of, or that there may be other forms of consciousness out there. But that actually, what defines me as unique as a human being, is that God loves me. And God wants to be in relationship with me. And that may not be exclusive. In her there may be other intelligent beings elsewhere in the universe, who knows. But I don't think that's a threat to that central understanding of what it means to be human, or the kind of the shorthand that we use as theologians been made in the image of God. Zack Jackson 44:34 That's beautiful. I, I'm so fascinated by the relationality of the cosmos, that we identify ourselves as a human by our relationship to each other, but we see it down to the fundamental level that 91% of the mass of the nucleus of an atom comes not from the proton and the neutron but from the forces that are generated by their interaction, and everything down to the fundamental Fields up until the galaxy clusters only exist in relation to one another. And if I mean, obviously, I'm, I'm imposing some of the meaning that from being a relational primate primates into the, into the cosmos, but you almost can't help but see the, the, the brushstrokes of a relational creator, in the fact that everything only exists in relation to each other. I David Wilkinson 45:34 think that's right. Second, I mean, let me let me confess to you and to the listeners, that when I was trained first, as a, as a physicist, I thought that physics was the only true science, that chemistry, chemistry was for people who couldn't do physics, biology was for people who couldn't do chemistry. And I won't tell you what I thought of sociology. Now, now, of course, I have repented of such things. Zack Jackson 46:03 For example, other mathematicians out there, for exactly David Wilkinson 46:07 the reason that you've said that when atoms get together in relationship to four molecules, then a new series and levels of reality occurs, which is called chemistry. When those molecules get together and form living beings, a new level of biology emerges. And when human beings get together, a new level, which can only be studied by sociology emerges. And that's that emergent relationality, which you've talked about. And that reminds me as a physicist, that the universe cannot be simply reduced to its constituent parts, you have got to understand its constituent parts, but you can only understand them fully, when you understand the relationality between them, which is exactly the point that you beautifully made. Zack Jackson 47:05 Well, thank you, thank you for the relational work that you're doing. And for that, being at the heart of your mission, understanding that it's not enough to just simply give information to clergy and to scientists, but to build relationships of understanding and mutuality. And that's, that is certainly how we interact. So for all the work that you're doing, through the foundation, through your your writings, and through, you know, the work you do at the college, thank you for for your life's work you're doing, you're doing really important work. And as we kind of ended our time together. Is there anything else that you would like our listeners to know, to take away from this conversation? I've David Wilkinson 47:50 I've enjoyed the conversation immensely. Of course, I think it's important to say one of the fascinating things for me, as always, anything that one is able to achieve as an individual is only as strong as the team that you work with. And one of the great things about the work that we've been doing here in the UK is a combination of collaborations and partnerships between different universities and the Church of England. And the quality of the colleagues that that I work with, who involve scientists, theologians, sociologists, historians. And that's a very important part of understanding science. Science doesn't exist in a pure scientific vacuum. It comes with history that comes with philosophy. Indeed, it's framed for me by theology. And so as we work together, across different disciplines, so our understanding of these things becomes much, much richer. And the problem of divorcing the church from science is partly the way that our culture has divorced arts and humanities, from science. And I think particularly in the UK, that's been the case. And so part of this is a bigger cultural issue, which is valuing all types of human knowledge and how we interact together and learn more as community together. But thank you, Zack, I've really enjoyed this. It's a delight. What a wonderful podcast you doing. And thanks for for the time this afternoon. Zack Jackson 49:35 Absolutely, and if any of our listeners out there are interested in learning more, they can go to E c l a s project.org. There's will be a link in the description if you'd like to learn more about what the equipping Christian leadership in an age of science is doing. There's plenty of videos from your previous conference, there's articles, there are links of places to get involved and to learn more and to help help equip you to do this very important work out in the world. You can also listen to any one of the 100 or so episodes of the podcast previously. We've where we've talked about a lot of these issues more in depth. So, again, thank you, David, for being here. And I wish all the best in all of your future endeavors. David Wilkinson 50:20 Thank you very much.
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