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This is the free episode!! To hear the full episode, go to Patreon.com/michcollMidnight Snack is an appropriate title for this week's episode as Michelle (Collins) and Dan (Acton) discuss the trials and tribulations of disgusting eaters, stemming from an upsetting yogurt bowl licking incident we'd like to never think about again. (Too late.) Plus, remember Gchat? The days of the past, we miss them so. Then, a lilll more Barbie talk, as Michelle realized maybe the reason she didn't connect with the movie was skeletally based. On to advice! One listener writes in with a typical dating app conundrum (you can write us too michcollshow@gmail.com), a cousin who sends romantic texts, a husband's friend who has welllllllll-crosssssseddd the line (Mich gets fired up at Dan about this but she loves him haha), and other questions that will have you FIRED UP in the COMMENTS. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Kasha Stewart is the Director of Growth Engagement at Adobe Express. Victoria talks to Kasha about finding advocates that encourage her to chase problems, getting more women into product development and why it's essential to bring different perspectives into this area, and ways to bring connection between the end users and customers, engineering teams, and the rest of the organization to the business. Adobe Express (https://www.adobe.com/express/) Follow Adobe LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/adobe/) or Twitter (https://twitter.com/AdobeExpress). Follow Kasha Stewart on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kashastewart/). Follow thoughtbot on Twitter (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/). Become a Sponsor (https://thoughtbot.com/sponsorship) of Giant Robots! Transcript: VICTORIA: This is the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots Podcast, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. I'm your host, Victoria Guido and with us today is Kasha Stewart, Director of Growth Engagement at Adobe Express. Kasha, thank you for joining us. KASHA: Well, thank you for having me. VICTORIA: Well, I thought I'd start off by asking you to tell me a little bit more about your background and how you found your way to product from starting out in film and video production. KASHA: I originally started...I have a fine arts background and did a lot of digital story narrative, post-production. Back in the day (I'm going to date myself.), you had to do...it was a very manual process of chroma keying and removing backgrounds, or refining someone's skin, or some type of background. That was where I kind of...it was my bread and butter. I really loved it. It was creative. Then in 2008, 2009, the housing market crashed, and the recession happened. And I thought, you know, I'm not a homeowner. What does it have to do with me? I'm taking these freelance jobs. I had just finished my grad program. And then all the jobs kind of disappeared. And I was thinking; here I was; I had gone to grad school. I had a really specific skill set. And then everything just poofed overnight, disappeared. And I thought, okay, well, what's more stable? Like, what could I do to secure a little bit more stability in my job, career? So I started applying for jobs in all these very different tech, like, they wanted people to be what we used to call a preditor, like, a producer and editor, someone that knew how to do this but also knew how to like FTP massive asset files and also knew how to flag something for when things were going wrong. And so I thought, okay, well, let me just apply for one of these. I have some of the skills. I tick the box on some of the requirements. And there was a job...it was actually on Craigslist. I actually didn't even know if it was a real job or if it was a scam situation, but I applied. It had a very unusual title; I think it was content distribution editor. And I thought, okay, well, this is interesting. And it was for abc.com. And this is about 2010. I applied. They called me. I thought, okay, why is ABC on Craigslist? But never mind, it was a legitimate job. And I got into what we call content distribution, so understanding content management systems. And I would be the last person that would actually process the content that would then be delivered to Hulu platforms, abc.com, many different affiliates. There were also Verizon mobile deals at this time, where the cell phone carriers had their own television networks that they tried to stand up. In that process, I started to really learn about licensing, how content is distributed, meta-tagging, and then also the architecture of a CMS. And I just for the life of me couldn't understand why this was built this way. It was a very cumbersome tool. And like clockwork, around 11:00 p.m. at night, it would crash. And if you hadn't saved your metadata on a notepad or in a spreadsheet, you're basically starting over from scratch. And I remember asking all these questions, and they were like, "Well, it's proprietary software, and it was built in Seattle." And I was like, "Yeah, but did they ever talk to the, you know..." I didn't know the terminology like end user at the time. But they never talked to any of us that were part of this small team that had this really pivotal role of publishing the content. And I remember asking all these questions. I had a supervisor at the time. And he jokingly said, "Well, you should go into product management since you love to ask questions." I didn't even know what product management was. I was like, well, I'm on a producer's track; that's my goal. I have this film and narrative background. And a role came up internally, and it was for a product specialist. I would say I needed a little bit of convincing to apply. I had some advocates in HR that saw this role and thought I would be perfect for it. And I was like, I don't know, it has all this data analytics. And what does this have to do with people and storytelling? And they were like, "We think you should apply for it." And I made the transition, which is rare sometimes in corporate and internal transitions. But I did make the transition, and I became a product specialist. And I kind of dived deep in into understanding consumer products from a front-end experience. So before, it was more from a distribution and back end. And now it was really focusing on the UX flow, the UI. What are the targets? And how do we position the content? And then, what are our consumers saying about the content? So I did open up a whole new world for me. I went ahead, and I made plenty of mistakes. There were times that I was like, I don't know if I'm for this if this is right for me. And people definitely weren't shy then. They would tell me, "You don't look like a product manager." Or "You don't have that background of CS or data and analytics person." And I totally didn't, and I never sold myself as a false representation. But what I did have was I had this really strong inclination of really understanding from the consumer perspective. I always took it back to even in my own circle. And I think I'm an early adopter. I love technology. But I also have friends that are still using Yahoo or Hotmail. And I'd be like, "Oh no, you got to try Gmail, or what about Gchat? This thing came out. You have to check it out." And I would think...back when I was building out these products, and this was, to level set, this is around the time of Web 2.0. I would think, oh, well, how would my friend in New York use this? Or how would my mom find her content? Or, how would my brother... And I think sometimes we get very seduced when you're building something, especially as a product manager, that everything is from your lens and from your perspective. And the data and then also the feedback was telling us that we weren't really hitting it where consumers were. They weren't able to find the content as easily as we hoped. And from there, I jumped into kind of entertainment streaming platforms, building out architecture, CMS, and then eventually transitioning into growth-led roles and then leadership roles later in my career. And so I've had the pleasure of working for startups like Beachbody, which was a fitness company big in the fitness space but smaller on the digital perspective, all the way to going back to Disney leading a team at Movies Anywhere. And now, I'm leading a growth team at Adobe. VICTORIA: Wow, thank you so much. That's so interesting. And we have a couple of different tracks we could get into here. One thing I want to note that I thought was interesting is when you got into your new role, what really kind of presented itself to you is that you identified a problem in the UX. Like, you kind of lateral moved, and then you found this problem, then you had advocates who pushed you to go in that direction. And so, if you have advice for people who are looking to make that transition, how do you find those advocates that encourage you to chase the problems that you find? KASHA: Oh, that's a great question. People ask me this frequently because I think on paper, it is hard. And no one's going to find you in your cubicle...or now a lot of us are working remotely in our houses. So you have to be your best cheerleader and campaign manager. I also think, like, what is it that is on your top three lists? In product, we have nice-to-have, must-haves, and then we kind of prioritize or stack rank our work backwards from that. So I ask people, "What's the most important thing for your next role?" And then those are the things that you need to either lean in and start to amplify that you're already doing and how you would make a great candidate. I think internal candidates do have an advantage because they know the culture, or they may know the players, or they may see something from a different perspective, but they know what the company's challenges are. So I would start by first talking to your manager, and you can have a great manager or not-so-great manager, but start there. Show them that, you know, I'm on this track plan, but I really want to be here. Are there things that I can do in my current role that would support that transition? Are there people that you can recommend? And sometimes, you can get traction with your manager, but if you can't, then start to search within your network. And if there's a product manager who's maybe in your org or actually would be maybe at the same leveling or someone new, start to explain to them, "Hey, I would love to set up a coffee chat, a 15-minute informational just to hear how you did it or what's your perspective?" And constantly, as you're taking notes...people usually like it when they get an opportunity to share their story or talk about themselves. And as you take notes, "Ah, I am actually looking to transition to that. Do you have any advice for me? If you had something in an open role, what would you want from that candidate?" And so you're constantly planting those seeds of like, I am this candidate, here's why. And product managers and, I think, also hiring managers, we have a room full of distractions. But if something's laid out to me in concise language and it's showing results of like, oh, well, I did this on the content management side, and I think this would be transferable, and here's why. And you don't have to be long-winded. I'm not into people writing dissertations and producing 20-page decks. I don't always have the time to read that, as lovely as it sounds. Drive in on your skills. How are they relatable or transferable? And then, what are the goals that you've been able to achieve in your current role? And what are you looking to do in your next role? And I think if you start to place yourself there...and definitely get out and start talking to people in your employee resource groups. And then also, internally, there's always, at some companies, there are HR or employee resource groups that will have at least a blog post on how to transition within the company, and if they don't, search out those people. And it's not an overnight process. I've seen people where it's been a flip of the switch, and they're on a rocket. And I've seen other people where it's taken time, but they've built those rapports with people that started to get to know them outside of their current role. VICTORIA: That makes a lot of sense. And you're also involved in many professional networks. And so, do you also get a benefit for your career growth from that? KASHA: Yes. I feel like I never stop learning. As much as there's always something new coming out, I mean like now I'm into the chatbots and AI. And I'm like, okay, here's another thing I got to learn. Let me [laughs] add this to my to-do list. So I never want to take that for granted. So I feel like the communities kind of keep me, you know, it's a temperature check of what's going on, either from a challenge perspective or what type of new technologies people are integrating into their existing platforms, and how it's actually growing or benefiting them, whether it's from a machine learning and building out recommendation engines that have saved time, and then actually gets smarter. And we're building out algorithms all the way to, you know, what would it be like to have AI enhancements on an existing platform and still help drive that high-value consumer experience? So I don't take for granted. I also recommend people that, even if you're not in product to, join product communities so that you start to hear the language and you start to see how product managers think and how hiring and leadership think. And LinkedIn is a great resource. I belong to Women in Product, Black Product Managers. There's a slew of Tech Ladies. And I'm always kind of looking. There are newsletters that I love, Lenny's Newsletter. And I'm always like, oh, that's a nice one. Let me take that away for my team, or, oh, I didn't actually see that. I didn't think about that. I didn't see that playing out with NFTs in that way; hmm, really interesting. Or that TikTok is taking over search. And now I'm like, okay, how can my product that I'm growing from an engagement standpoint also have really strong representation on TikTok in a way that's authentic and users can find us, and we can continue to engage with users that way? Start small. Find the right community that works for you. There's also Product-Led Growth, Product Alliances. There are so many of them. And I think you just start to kind of join them if you can. Some of them are free, some of them have dues. And they're really worth it. It's a value add. And you never know who's going to be posting in these Slack community groups too. You might see something where they're okay with associate level or okay with someone transitioning, or looking to help someone transition. And I often mentor and direct some of my mentees in that direction so that they don't feel like they're in the passenger seat of their career and waiting for something to happen. You have to be active in this pursuit. And you also have to be a driver in it. VICTORIA: Right. I felt that myself in my career. I felt like my network was my number one source of learning like you said. And also, when you're considering a career change, sometimes you don't even know what else is out there or what other types of jobs are out there. [laughs] I love what you said about that. And you also mentioned Women in Product and Black Women in Product. How can we promote those groups more [laughs] as we get more women in product? And why is it important to bring a different perspective into product? KASHA: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think podcasts like this, you know, letting people know. And then also, when I do a post on LinkedIn, I do the hashtags of all the groups that either I belong to, or I might tag them. One thing that I do when I do start to mentor someone I say "Be active in the community, share your voice. You're going to start to get comfortable." Product managers have it...it's not a career for the weak, I'll say that. [laughs] And you have to have an opinion, so start small and start promoting yourself in those groups or hearing what people are saying. And even if my company is hiring or someone else, another hiring manager, and it has a post, I'll say, "Oh, did you think about posting this or adding this hashtag to this? This would definitely help give you a different type of candidate and also get more traffic." And it's important to me because if I think about the world population and how we're changing, and who's showing up, you want that representation of the people that are working on it. They're going to be thinking about it from a different lens that I didn't even realize that that was an issue or oh, wow, we need to really tap into that. Or actually, we should promote this in a different way because we're going to cast a wider net, or we're going to cast a really specific net. With this demo, it can grow by 10x. Versus us thinking very generally and saying, "Well, we're happy with a 2x growth." So that's why it's important to me. I'm also always balancing, like, do I have enough representation of women? And do I have enough representation of men on the team too? I don't want to go one side too far and then I'm out of balance and I'm just hiring the same people that are like me. It is kind of challenging sometimes because I have to think about what does the team need? What is the team dynamics missing? And who is that person that can bring in or usher in that different perspective? And then also work cohesively with the existing team. And so that's a lot of balancing act that I do in my current role and really thinking about okay, well, we're serving small businesses. We're serving social entrepreneurs. Has anybody ever done that? We can be very kind of elitist in tech, especially in product of, like, well, I do it this way. I've [laughs] got Discord, and I have all the NFTs that I've ever wanted to collect. And I can hear and listen to all that, and I can geek out. But then I'm like, if I go back to my friends, they'll be, "Kasha, what are you talking about? Can you speak English to us?" [laughs] And they'll be like, "Can you please calm down?" And I'm like, "Oh, but there's this thing." And then I'm like, well, maybe I need to have someone who is not like me because they're going to be thinking of that person who really just has a simple task they're trying to solve for. They have a limited amount of time, and they also have limited patience. They're not in a place where they want to learn and go on YouTube and watch a tutorial. They're really just, you know, "Hey, I need to get this birthday card or this invitation out for my kids. And this was a free product that I saw from SEO results, and I'm here." And that's the value in finding that person and then carrying them through a journey. Me, I'm going to be picky. I'm going to probably research. I'm going to look at reviews. I'm going to look at two other competitors that I'm going to start to line up. [laughter] And then you've lost me by that point. You want to get that person, and you want to make it a frictionless experience. So I do encourage, when I'm building teams, to think about the dynamics, always going for people that are, you know, want to be there and that are really dedicated to the product but also bring a different perspective than I did. And I come from an untraditional background in tech, so I think that's probably why I'm so conscious of this and how we can make these changes. And I think, historically, or the data proves that diverse teams often excel faster and better than traditional teams. VICTORIA: Right. And teams that are diverse and are in an inclusive environment where they feel like they can bring their authentic selves. KASHA: Correct. Yeah, it's one thing to have diversity, but then it's also another, you know, the counterbalance of inclusion. And how do you set people up for success that have different backgrounds? And I have a great strong team of rock stars, as I say, but they all are different. They all need different things. They all have different kinds of needs from a coaching or leadership perspective. Some I'm more hands-on, others I'm hands-off. But as a leader, it's being perceptive of that and saying, okay, well, this person likes to run their own ship. I'm going to be here on the sidelines. And this person I'm going to be out front. I'm going to be walking with them side by side. I don't know why I have all these sports analogies because I was terrible at sports in junior high, in high school. But I always feel like I'm this coach out here with a whistle and a clipboard. And I'm telling them I'm like, okay, I'm going to set this person up. This person is going to happen here. And that's how I look at it from a growth perspective. When I'm really assessing the roadmap and the backlog and what's going to be our impact, I'm also thinking about, well, how is everybody working cohesively? And is there a way that we can have shared experiences so that that way, oh, we learned from such and such an experiment, and that's going to influence the other half of my team? Or, actually, I'm going to have them focus, or I know that we're going to have too many mobile tests at the end of Q2 because the monetization team is also trying to test something very similar. So it's a constant juggling act in my role. VICTORIA: Right. I very much relate to that. I was a competitive rock climbing coach a few years ago on top of my full-time job. KASHA: Oooh. VICTORIA: And my kids would ask me if I was also a motivational speaker [laughs] because I was always pumping people up while they're climbing. So yeah, I find it fascinating how you think about the needs of your team and your own growth from an individual contributor into a leader. And how do you coach people in your team along that path, like making that transition from being really strong in product to managing a team of product people? KASHA: Oh, that's a great question. And I love that you're like a rock climbing...I love that. I'm like, [laughs] what we call thumbs. I would just be looking; I mean, just thinking about rock climbing, my hands are probably getting sweaty right now. [laughs] And for my team, I do have people that they're getting to a senior PM level, and they're like, "What's next?" And I really like to do an assessment of, like, "Well, what do you think is next? And what is really going to help your career growth?" And some of them are like, "Well, I want to do leadership. I want to do this." And I ask, just like I ask in any product question, "What's the why behind that? Is it a financial contribution? Is it a recognition? Or is it that you are really invested in people development?" Because one thing I do like to preference, especially people that are in early or mid-level careers, is that managing a product versus managing people are two different skill sets. And I didn't even understand that when I started to get into management; I kind of fell into it. I had a leader that exited the company, and it was like, "Oh, gosh, what will we do next?" And I was just like, "I think we should still continue to pursue the roadmap [laughs] is what I would think to do first." So one of the things I do say is that your work is going to change. I don't PM, and I'm not regularly with the engineering team on a day-to-day basis. And so I will say to the team that first, at certain points, you can balance it. You'll have both where you might own still part of the portfolio, but then you have maybe one or two direct parts. But as you start to grow, you will start to transition out of the day-to-day or building individual features or initiatives. And I do ask my PMS, are they ready for that? And if they check all the boxes and say that they have a strong why, then I start off by, okay, well, let's see if our team is eligible for an internship. We're going to open up an internship this summer, and instead of this intern reporting to me, they're going to report to you. What's your onboarding plan? What's your growth strategy for this person? And then, what do you want this person to accomplish at the end of the internship? And it's a baby step for them to kind of get their feet wet on what is it like to lead someone? And then also, what are the challenges? There's always a perfect storm where things go great. But what about the times when things are not going great, and how do you communicate with that person? What are the nudges that they need to give for them to either redirect them, or what are the things that you need to do to kind of show them the happy path to success? So those are where I start. We have international teams and people onboarding. I work for a huge company, so there are more opportunities there. But then I will also say if someone wants to drive and be in a leadership role, what are the mentoring opportunities within the company? So, how would you mentor somebody? And what would be your advice? How do you set up a weekly cadence? What are your expectations of this? How should they measure success and goals? All these are things that are going to be transferable when that opportunity comes up. And then also, too, what is the right situation? Is it a mix of where I'm 50% IC and then I'm, you know, this other 40%-50% of people management? I encourage them to look at opportunities internally, even if I'm at the sacrifice of losing what I call one of my rock stars. I know that it's inevitable for people to grow. And I never want to be the person that held someone back out of jealousy, or fear, or my own insecurities. And I do have a strong network that when I post something, I get so many candidates. It's almost to the sense of like, wow, this person is greater. Wow, this person...wow, they went to Stanford, and they did this, and now they're transitioning. And I'm like, oh my gosh, they want to work with me. And so that's always very exciting. So I never want to get so trapped in the ideology that the team is only great with these people. I'm like; the team starts with me and my leadership. So I need to be able to build a team. I need to be able to grow a team. And sometimes, you might have a great talent pool, and other times you don't, and then what do you do in those? I mean, that's what leadership really is. It's not always when you have everybody applying for your job, and you have all this funding, and your P&Ls are going incredible. It's those times where they come back to you and say, "Yeah, we're not going to get that done this sprint, so you'll just have to figure it out." Or someone's resigning that you didn't see coming. And then you're like, okay, I might have to roll up my sleeves and take over their part of the roadmap just as a stopgap till I have someone. And that's the things that can make or break your leadership. VICTORIA: Yeah, it's easy when everything is going great. [laughter] KASHA: Yes. Don't we love that? [laughter] Mid-Roll Ad: As life moves online, bricks-and-mortar businesses are having to adapt to survive. With over 18 years of experience building reliable web products and services, thoughtbot is the technology partner you can trust. We provide the technical expertise to enable your business to adapt and thrive in a changing environment. We start by understanding what's important to your customers to help you transition to intuitive digital services your customers will trust. We take the time to understand what makes your business great and work fast yet thoroughly to build, test, and validate ideas, helping you discover new customers. Take your business online with design‑driven digital acceleration. Find out more at: url tbot.io/acceleration or click the link in the show notes for this episode. VICTORIA: You mentioned a few times, switching more into your approach to product management about the experiments that you run. Sometimes those go great, and sometimes they don't go so great. So can you tell me about a time you ran an experiment, and the results were really different than what you expected, and what did you do from that? KASHA: Oh gosh, yeah. There are so many. I'm trying to think of what's the best example. Gosh, I'm like, do I go for mobile? No, web. [laughs] Well, I think in growth, a part of your experiment should fail because if they're not failing, that also means to me you're not taking enough risk. And you're taking things that you already know, in some ways, are like low-hanging fruit, and you're very comfortable in it. And I do encourage my team to take a big risk of how do we start to find something? We recently had something to help users on the AI side. It was a really unique feature. A user uploads an image, and AI automatically spits out templates with this user-generated content. And we were so excited. We were watching the demos, I felt like on replay, you know, as we got out the meaning. It didn't necessarily do what we thought it would do. And so then we had to take a pause, like, what happened? And one of the things that we learned from the test is that people just didn't understand what they were supposed to do. They didn't understand the process of their workflow. And they also weren't engaged with what the results came back. So I think that's one thing that, you know, I know there's a lot of chatter in the space about AI taking over and where are we going to be. And I still think we need to have that human perspective, that person that is like, hey, these search results are really not what the consumer is looking for. And yes, it solved a requirement of picture upload output, but the output is not matching what the consumer's needs were. It didn't solve their problem. And we have to constantly continue to filter and refine the algorithm. So our first output back was not great. But what we learned is that we have to have more variety of the type of output of content and that we also have to do more hand-holding. As much as we think that people are going to dive right in because it's in the press, and it's in TechCrunch and on Verge, that is not our general population. I can talk to my girlfriend; she's a doctor. And she's like, "Hey, I'm just really trying to do this for my local women physicians network." All this other stuff, she's like, "It's kind of overwhelming to me." And I didn't even see that. I was just like, "Aren't you excited that you have five options? She's like, "No, I just kind of needed the one thing with the squiggly backgrounds [laughs] and the template that I could alter." She's like, "These don't actually really speak to me." And so we had to come back and re-define the algorithm and also think about less choices for people; as much as we were like, we can randomize it; we can output more types of templates. It's really about finding the cues that the user is giving us to find that right match, and it's not something that I think we're going to get...and knowing from the test, we're not going to get on the first try. We're going to continue to test this, and that's what's going to make it better because we stress-test it. I mean, in growth, sometimes, I tell my team, like, don't get our hopes up, our hearts set into it because we can spend a lot of time in crafting the experiment and doing the 50% and then the other 50% control and variants, and then when it comes back, they're just not excited, or the consumer just didn't really gravitate or attach to it. And so then we have to stop, and I think, okay, there's a lesson here. Is it the education? Is it the guidance? Isn't the language that we use? You'd be surprised how one word can throw off someone's context. And they're turned off, or they don't want to do it. Or they like, "Oh, this is kind of cool. Oh, I didn't realize that this was a free service." Or, "Oh, I didn't realize that I could save this, and it's removing the background for me. And then now I have all these options." Growth is a hard challenge. I mean, we move so fast, which is what I love, but then we're always kind of looking at the data and having to constantly pivot and transition based off of our previous tests. [laughs] Now I'm thinking about a time when I was at Beachbody, and I was so excited because I got to do native app development on mobile platforms, and I'd never done that before. We were all excited. We had an iOS product that was really strong. And, of course, many of the people that worked in the office were all iOS users. So they weren't even thinking about Android. And we had just missed the mark as a company not really focusing on building out a great Android native app experience. And we were just kind of relying on the mobile web experience. And I remember thinking like, oh, okay, well, you have something. And then I went into a Facebook community group, and I just saw all the complaints. I saw all the people's frustrations. I saw also all these user-generated hacks. People were sharing what to do when your video stops. And I just was like, oh my gosh, we need to get on this. And so from that experience, I was able to champion and be one of the people that was like, hey, we need to help drive this. On Android, we need to really, like, this is really a problem. We could set ourselves up for success. And then we can also grow in other markets outside of the U.S. And I remember looking at the first designs, and they were all done by our creators' team, which were iOS users. So even in that situation, I think of that as more of growth internally versus putting something out user-facing to the consumer. It still was a challenge. Like, how do I influence? How do I show that this is not the right path? How do I show that, hey, we're not using material design or best practices, and this is going to hurt us in the long run? Because people that are on these platforms on Android they're used to seeing things in this manner. And we're presenting it to them in another way, and then now we're wondering why they're confused. VICTORIA: Right, right. And you mentioned a couple of different tactics to connect to that consumer voice. What other ways do you try to bring that connection between the end user and the customer, to the engineering teams, to the rest of the organization, to the business? KASHA: I'm very privileged in my organization. We have a really strong user research team as well. As we're doing our experiments, depending on how large or how much time we'll invest into an experiment, we will do a prototype kind of test in a smaller pool, let's say, before we go out to A/B test or have a controlled and variant situation. And sometimes those are the little things that I can take back, a video, or likes, comments, and send it. I don't even need to wait for it to be polished into a presentation or to a Confluence page, or even in Jira. And I can say to my counterpart, "Hey, Ganesh, do you see this? This is what I'm trying to solve for." And then it's like that aha moment. And I can say, and, you know, and engineers are always delightful. And they'll say, "Well, that's only one data point." And I'm like, "Yes, but it is a significant point. And I think if we tested this more, we will see more people are struggling with this." And how can we change that? What are their solutions? And I'm really big on collaboration. Product owns kind of the deliverables and the path and is accountable for the results. But this is a joint effort between design, between data and analytics, and engineering. So early on, I present the problem. This is the why; here's kind of our best path. But what do you think? And that to me and my career has always yielded such a higher result instead of coming from an authoritative or dictatorship of, "Well, this is the way that I've envisioned it. Here's my mocks, here are my wires, and this is why," and then kind of leaving it out to pasture or throwing it over the fence and saying, "Okay, and I need it in a week and a half." And I've been on both sides of different product teams, and different engineering teams work differently. But I have found that when you get people to buy in, to care, and then also give them that consumer value of that person is frustrated; I mean, that's what was the trigger for me when I went into the Facebook groups. I really didn't have the biggest inclination that we were having such a problem on Android. I was an iOS user. I was happy with the product; I could get my workouts in, or I could find what I was looking for. And then, when I did that, I started screenshotting. And then, I started to share this out in the Slack channel. And then there are also ways...now we have so many things where you can have bots that will record the feedback if someone says something in the App Store. That's one way to kind of bring it up to people. And then, if you don't have the funding or have an in-house user research, there's always usertesting.com. That is one way that you can start. Even if you work with design, and you guys are a small team, "Hey, I am so committed to this working. But I really would love to run a test." And then also running a survey after people test or even in product, you know, what did they think about the experience? And if you can't even get that, you can always do thumbs up, thumbs down. [laughs] You can always do is this a four-star experience or a five-star? Would you like to tell us more? I would say that sometimes we have blindness to surveys and to people asking for our opinions because you just want to get to that thing. But that small sampling of people that do respond, I think, is a way for you to kind of, if you're not sure, think about this directionally. I was leaning more towards this, but, wow, this user research came back, and I think people are going to really appreciate having this extra step. Which is something like an oxymoron for me because I'm always thinking about, well, what's the easiest path? Or what's the least path of resistance to getting the user into the experience? And then sometimes you're dropping them into a whole new what we call canvas or experience, and they have no idea what to do. VICTORIA: I liked the way you described your approach or how not to do it was like, just throw things over a wall [laughs] and say, "This is the way." KASHA: [laughs] Yes. VICTORIA: One of my questions that I like to ask people who have design and product backgrounds is just what does product design have to do with DevOps? KASHA: Yeah, so everybody has to have a starting point. And a lot of times, I was definitely a product manager when I was more in the day-to-day, and I see where...in my mind, I like to figure things out on my own. And that way, I like to come with this pretty package of, like, I thought of all the different angles. I thought of the best use case and the worst use case. And as much as that was delightful for me, I noticed that the people in engineering would kind of check a box too, and they'd be like, okay, done. And then we might get to a certain point, and they would be like, "Oh, well..." one time when I was building something for Beachbody, and, again, it was on Android, and it was the search. And I didn't think anything of it. I was just like, oh yeah, top result, then stack rank alphabetically. And then I hadn't thought about new content. And I remember thinking, like, why didn't my engineer say this? Because this is something that we do on iOS. And they said, "Well, you never asked us." [laughs] And I was there, you know, "But you work on the product too." And they're like, "Oh yeah, but you run the show. So this is what you wanted, so this is what I coded." And I just remember feeling like I had egg on my face in a meeting because now we had all this new content coming out, and the search results weren't accommodating for new content. They were accommodating for the existing metadata. And I just remember thinking like, never again. And from a DevOps perspective, I think of there's a lot of change in the industry where we also have product ops people as well. And I think of it as additional layering; it can be good and bad. I think there are positives and advantages. I think there are always growing points. And I think you have to give what is the ultimate goal? Like, if you do have a DevOps team, are they also early in the iteration? Are they part of the brainstorms? That's how I run my small pod. We have design, analytics, and engineering part of our early brainstorms. So instead of us kind of holding our ideas in a huddle, we will kind of tee up, let's say, our top five and say, "Hey, directionally, this is the direction that we're going." And we're framing it to the problems that are most important for us to solve. So we don't turn it into a hackathon where people are trying to build a spaceship in a brainstorm. That's not the goal. The goal is that, hey, we have these particular problems. This is the direction that we want to go in, and this is how we carry it through. And then, what do you guys think? And then we're in a Miro board in real-time. And we put the timer on and then get everybody's opinions. And some product groups I've seen where product team doesn't actually talk to the engineering. They just talk to the technical PM, which then translates out what the actual specs and requirements are. I haven't been part of that type of org yet in my career. I have been traditionally where it's a one-to-one ratio where if there's a product manager, there's going to be a data and analytics analyst assigned to them. There's going to be an engineer assigned to them. There's also going to be a designer. And that's been my sweet spot. And I've had a lot of gains and tractions for that. In my mind, ideas can come from anywhere. It doesn't have to start with product, but product is going to be the leader. And I don't want to think of it as a gatekeeping situation. But we're the ones that are going to drive it through with our own cross-functional teams as a partnership. So I hope that answers the question about DevOps; I'm not sure. Sometimes I can get into a little bit of a tangent [laughs] and start talking about my own experience. VICTORIA: I love talking about it because some product, people will say nothing. [laughter] KASHA: Oh really? VICTORIA: And I'm like, no, you're supposed to talk to people. Bring everybody in, and that's the whole philosophy of it. And I like that you mentioned product ops and design ops as well, thinking about how you can automate the process of what you're doing or how the information flows across your team. I'm sure with your designs and end product, and everything is more on the product ops side. KASHA: And I think having an ops, you know, it does have like one central point of contact. So if you want to think about alleviating steps, or reducing the white noise, or the friction that you may have in the organization, you have one kind of point of contact. And that person will own it, and they'll almost become a mini pod and then distribute the information, which is definitely like a gain and a positive. I just wonder on the reverse side, though, how does that engineer or how does that designer then surface, "Hey, what about this?" Or "I think this is a better way," or "Actually, we tested this two years ago, and the results weren't great." And so that's the only thing where how does that two way-communication go back and forth when you have ops? I think ops definitely gives more structure. You're definitely in a high performance. Everybody knows what their marching orders are. We know who's on first. And we also know from an accountability and an escalation process where all these pieces are working together. So I can see the benefits to it. I'm not opposed to it. I just want to make sure that the people that are actually building the product also have time to have a say and have an opinion. And whether that helps change me, I want to at least hear the feedback first. And then as a product leader and as a product manager, it's up to that person to make the decision of, like, okay, you know what? I've thought about this looking at the data, or this person raised a really significant point that I hadn't considered. I do think that we need to think about this and focus. That's the advantage for me, I feel like, of having that bottoms-up approach to development and then running your teams. VICTORIA: I think that makes sense. And you're right; I think it can be successful. But I think there's a good warning there about...and people do this with DevOps teams as well where they create a DevOps team and then put them in a silo, right? [laughs] KASHA: Yeah. VICTORIA: And that's kind of missing the point about the whole thing. It's like we want to power these people. KASHA: Yeah, everything new is old again. I remember when I didn't even talk to an engineer. And I remember...and this was early in my product when I had the product specialist. I would be at my cube writing requirements. I thought they were great. And then we switched to an agile format, and I remember going into a meeting thinking, okay, we're just going to go over the stuff that's next. And they had all these questions for me, and it terrified me. [laughter] Because it made me think, like, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about or, yeah, I didn't think about the error messaging. Oh, okay, yeah, what happens if someone loses internet connection during that session and they've started the process? Oh, I don't know. What should happen? [laughs] And so there were all these kinds of questions. But before, I would just process my requirements, put it in a Jira ticket. And then you might get some Jira comments, but there wasn't this back-and-forth in real-time. And then, I had to really step up and write my requirements better. Because at that point, I had just had like, oh, this happens in check one. This happens at step two. And then step three, the end. That was my own kind of naive perspective at the time when I was writing requirements. And I didn't know that the engineers had all these questions because we had that layer of...they didn't call it a DevOps person. I think they called it, you know, an engineering lead where he would just take the tickets, and then they were doing their own sub tickets to make it make sense. And so then, when we started to transition into more of an agile and rating things and giving value to them, I really had to change. And it helped me grow. And it was definitely uncomfortable. But it definitely pushed me into thinking, okay, someone's reading this. They're an engineer. They're not thinking about this. How can I get as clear as possible but also still think about the consumer or the persona that I'm thinking about that is trying to solve this problem? VICTORIA: That makes sense. It reminds me of one of my first jobs actually was in Washington, D.C., which you went to undergrad there. I would actually pass by Howard University on the bus every day to work. [laughs] KASHA: Oh wow. [laughs] VICTORIA: I wonder, are you familiar with BisonHacks and their annual hackathon that they have there? I know you're from the film department. But the computer science does a hackathon there every year. KASHA: I am not familiar with that specific one. But I participated; I mean, we have some at Adobe. We have our regular hackathons internally. But I would love to hear more about the one that you're describing. It sounds pretty fascinating. Do they have an ultimate goal? Are they building from an existing product, or is this something new? VICTORIA: I think it's something new. So I believe that they come together to create solutions to help improve the livelihood of the DMV community. KASHA: Oh wow. VICTORIA: So I think every year they make it a different purpose. KASHA: Okay, I got it. VICTORIA: But they interact with students and do different projects. And it's a super fun organization. So, yeah, I'll send you a link. We'll share it in the show notes as well. [laughs] KASHA: Yeah. I love it. I love it. This podcast I'm already growing [laughter] in the short time we've talked, so I love that. VICTORIA: And we're coming to the end of our time here. I have one final question before I ask you if you have any other final takeaways. [laughs] But what are you most excited about on the roadmap for Adobe Express that you have coming? KASHA: Well, I'm excited...gosh, what can I share? [laughs] I'm like, I see legal tapping me on the shoulder. [laughs] I'm excited that we are making so many improvements to really simplify the experience and that we're also diversifying our use cases of the types of people that will be coming to the platform. So when I say that, let's say we've been focused on what we call the social creator, or the small business owner, or hustler, I really want to lean more into that and expand that. We also have more of what we call our pro users coming to Adobe Express. So if you think of someone that's a professional graphic designer that may need something where they need to have a collaborator, we're enhancing that process. And then also, I'm most excited coming into 2023 is that Adobe's Express is going to be what we think of as the doorway to all the Adobe ecosystem. So whether you start with Express on a small scale and building out a template, you can really grow with this product. And whether you use it for your everyday either social needs or even in your everyday work or marketing, you can start to have people come to the platform and collaborate on it. We have so many exciting things that it's interesting because my team is focused on activation and repeat engagement, and how do those two worlds kind of marry each other? Getting the user in from having them on a first great day one experience and then carrying them through for when they return. And one thing that I'm excited for is that we've had this recent pivot, and this came out of user research. We don't have to wait for the user to leave the platform to remind them of all the great things that we can do. And I'm really excited about having machine learning capabilities on the platform; where, if your next step is this, what's the next best available action? And then how does that help enhance not only your experience of the product but then also starting to plant those seeds of you can schedule this in advance or creating this type of content once a week will drive exponentially your growth on your platform? And that, to me, is making us stronger and really looking at it not only from I want the consumer to do these series of high-value actions, but I really want to see them grow on their own personal platform level. And here's a tool that can help you do everything that you need to. And whether you're someone that posts once a week, or whether you're someone in an office that is collaborating for a marketing meeting, or if you're a professional that has something that, you know, I just really want to use a template. I have an aesthetic. I know how to use Photoshop. I know how to use Illustrator. But let me put this in Express. I can send it to the client. They can make comments, and then they can also feel like they're part of the creative process. That makes me happy because I was this fine arts major. It feels like 100 years ago. [laughs] And I remember thinking like, oh wow, I love these products. They're expensive, or saving up for them. And then now there are so many different plans. There are so many different ways. And I would have loved an opportunity to have a free product that allowed me to just start to understand my own type of style and capabilities without having this feeling that I have to be a designer and that everything has to be perfect. So I'm excited for that. We have so much growth planned, new, exciting ways on the platform. And, also, you'll see some new looks. I can't share too much more than that. [laughter] So I hope the little bit of tidbit doesn't get me in trouble. But sometimes you got to break some rules. You got to break some eggs to make an omelet. [laughter] VICTORIA: Any other final thoughts for our listeners today? KASHA: I would love for, you know, to give me feedback. I always love doing these. I'm active on LinkedIn. You can find me at Kasha Stewart. Shoot me a note. I get a healthy amount of mail, but I promise I will reply back to you if you have questions and what your biggest challenges are. Check out Adobe Express. It's free, by the way. And continue to, you know; I just remember being this, like, early in my career and having these questions, and at different points, I was afraid to ask questions because I was like, I don't want to sound silly. Or maybe I'm not understanding that, or, you know, maybe I should have been a CS major. And I say to people now, like, you have to have a starting point. You never know what is next on the horizon. Or that everybody had been thinking about that and they were just waiting for the person to raise their hand. That's one of the things that I always want to encourage people and to check out these products, communities. And thank you to this podcast for allowing me to share my journey and my story. It's always a pleasure. I learned something, and I'm like, oh yeah, I did actually do that. But that was a while ago that; I might forget. So it's good. It's like having my own little mini retro. So I thank you for inviting me here and to, you know, share my journey. VICTORIA: Well, thank you. That's a very powerful message, and I appreciate you coming on today to share it with us. You can subscribe to the show and find notes along with a complete transcript for this episode at giantrobots.fm. If you have questions or comments, email us at hosts@giantrobots.fm. You can find me on Twitter @victori_ousg. This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot and produced and edited by Mandy Moore. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next time. ANNOUNCER: This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot, your expert strategy, design, development, and product management partner. We bring digital products from idea to success and teach you how because we care. Learn more at thoughtbot.com. Special Guest: Kasha Stewart.

Chief, Carl & White Sox Dave join for another free swim. We get into the good old days of communicating via "Gchat", White Sox Dave's shoulder pain affecting his athletic career, detailing the worst surgeries we've had to experience, and more.

The Great Resignation is upon us and almost half of anyone with a job is considering a new one. There are lot of reasons for this but overall, its COVIDs fault. We have all done a little soul-searching and many of us want to continue working from home or some hybrid and if our work won't cater to that, then peace out!If you are putting yourself  back out there, then this episode is a guide on how to prepare for 3 types of interviews:1) Live or in-person2) Over the phone3) Via web conference (Zoom, Gchat, etc)This is the first step in an exciting new chapter of your life. Be prepared, crush your interview and land the job!

Jorgs, en este episodio nos fuimos down memory lane, recordando aquellos días de cuando uno empezó a utilizar el internet, pero enfocándonos en la parte del CHAT. ¿Dónde empezó todo esto de chatear? ¿Cuales eran las plataformas mas cool o las mas utilizadas? ¿Cómo se ligaba? Para esto decidimos invitar a Hipólito Delgado ya que es un experto en el área tecnológica, pero más que eso, alguien que recuerda mucho mejor que nosotros y con mas detalles, los insights de back in the day.Withour further ado, los dejamos con La Evolución del chateo.PS:Para que tengan una idea, mucho de lo que encontramos arranque circa 1995, hace ya mas de 20 años. YIKES!Disfruten!

Welcome solo and group practice owners! We are Liath Dalton and Roy Huggins, your co-hosts of Person Centered Tech. This time, we’re talking about different chat services you can use in your group practice both for logistical reasons and to promote team cohesion.  We discuss different software options, what to keep in mind HIPAA wise, chat options for discussing client information, using a VOIP service for messaging in your team, and the difference between messaging clients and messaging your team. Stay tuned for future episodes! For more, visit our website. Resources "HIPAA-propriateness" vendor/product reviews from Person Centered Tech

Patrocinador: Estamos en el año 2020. De poco sirve hoy estudiar las decisiones que una empresa tomó en el siglo XX. Descubre una experiencia de aprendizaje learning-by-doing única basada en tres ejes clave: Entender, Aplicar y Experimentar. —  Infórmate sobre el MIB en la web de ISDI. Hackeo masivo en Twitter / Mini estación espacial / Integración total en Gmail + Chat + Meet + Rooms / Disney+ en Apple TV / Xiaomi lanza mil cosas ✨ Un hackeo masivo sacude Twitter durante horas. Las cuentas verificadas de varios proyectos de criptomonedas y personalidades como Elon Musk, Bill Gates o Joe Biden, estuvieron enviando tweets con una estafa bitcoin durante horas.

Good Google Friday beautiful people! It's been a fun week doing this podcast and I'm having fun learning and getting better. As always reach out to me for tips, trips, questions, or just some kind words on Twitter (@googlebymike) or my email (info@googlebymike.com). In this episode I go over Google banning employees from using Zoom, Google Chat....again, Google Stadia is now free, and more! Sit back, relax, and enjoy this bite sized Google news from "Google by Mike"! Thanks for listening! --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/googlebymike/support

Today, we discuss the importance of instant message archiving through the connector framework provided by UGA.

Best friends, Gabi Koshgarian and Catherine Wang, never planned to go into business together, but a fateful google search for a chic gift box and a Gchat later, they created their company, BlankBox, for the same reason a lot of founders create their product – they needed it!  What started as wanting to give a thoughtful ‘just because’ gift soon turned into the realization that they couldn’t find chic and customizable gift packaging that made it easy to send a beautiful thoughtful gift.  BlankBox is your ready to gift box that creates an elevated unboxing experience, featuring chic designs, no visible blankbox branding, foldover magnetic closure + a built-in satin ribbon for that effortless first impression. Gabi and Catherine share how they started and self funded BlankBox all while working full time careers and truly break the stigma that best friends shouldn’t be business partners. 

Epi. 40 Free GChat by Grant & Payton

On this week's show we discuss Tesla's huge drawdown, why making your stock bets public makes it harder to have an open mind, how our perceptions about retirement change over time, why does Uber lose so much money, how Charles Schwab seems to toe the line between bank and fund firm so well, will people drop Netflix for Disney+, how Americans have spent their money over the past 75 years, do young people require a financial advisor more than old people, the name for our new podcast, how to teach your kids about money and much more. Find complete shownotes on our blogs... Ben Carlson’s A Wealth of Common Sense Michael Batnick’s The Irrelevant Investor Like us on Facebook And feel free to shoot us an email at animalspiritspod@gmail.com with any feedback, questions, recommendations, or ideas for future topics of conversation.

What if Tom Hardy drove up to your house to deliver loads of LaCroix and cash? That’s the premise of just one of the stories in New Erotica for Feminists, a book of “satirical fantasies of love, lust, and equal pay.” And we were lucky enough to talk to its authors! We got three out of the four—yes, four—authors on the line to talk about writing the book, how they collaborate with so many different schedules and voices in the mix, what it’s like to build a women-run comedy site on a shoestring, and why all of us could use a group of badass creative partners in our lives. > We all have a lot of rage at society…and this partnership helps us sort of channel it into a constructive way where it’s at least cathartic and we can feel like we’re helping other people laugh. I mean, that’s one of the things that came out of this book—we would love for it to change the world. It’s probably not going to do that, but at least it entertains people and makes them feel like they are not so alone. > —Fiona Taylor , co-author, New Erotica for Feminists Links on links on links Pick up New Erotica for Feminists pretty much everywhere Bookmark The Belladonna, our guests’ hilarious comedy site Follow the authors: Caitlin Kunkel, Brooke Preston, Carrie Wittmer, and Fiona Taylor Read the McSweeney’s piece that started it all Also on the agenda We talk about writing with coauthors: what works, what doesn’t, and how to make sure no one loses their shit in the process Katel talks about finding her own voice, distinct from her company’s Sara wonders if her freewheelin’ podcastin’ lifestyle is bad for business (and whether she cares) (Spoiler: her bank account cares) We say farewell to our co-host Jenn, who’s sadly not coming back to the show next season (but whose hilarious takes on balancing parenting and professional badassery we miss every day) Sponsors This episode of NYG is brought to you by: Shopify, a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit shopify.com/careers for more. Harvest, makers of awesome software to help you track your time, manage your projects, and get paid. Try it free, then use code NOYOUGO to get 50% off your first paid month. Transcript Sara Wachter-Boettcher Thanks to Harvest for supporting today’s show. Harvest makes project planning software that you can use for all kinds of crucial stuff like tracking time, managing deadlines, and my personal favorite—getting paid. They’ve even got all kinds of reports you can run to gain insight and shine a light on the health of your projects. Try it free at getharvest.com and when you upgrade to a paid account, make sure you use the code “noyougo” for fifty percent off your first paid month. That’s getharvest.com, offer code “noyougo.” [intro music plays for 12 seconds] SWB Hey everyone, I’m Sara! Katel LeDû And I’m Katel. SWB And you’re listening to No, You Go, the show about building satisfying careers and businesses KL getting free of toxic bullshit SWB and living your best, feminist life at work. KL Today we are talking to Brooke Preston, Carrie Wittmer, and Fiona Taylor, three of the four—yes, four—authors of New Erotica for Feminists, a collection of “Satirical Fantasies of Love, Lust, and Equal Pay.” It came out last month, after the authors wrote a post of the same name on McSweeney’s earlier this year. We talk with them about the book, why they wrote it, and what it was like to collaborate with four co-authors, as well as how they all came to be writing partners, and what it’s like to write satirical erotica—or erotic satire??—about women getting promotions and men doing housework. It was awesome. SWB Yes, it was a super fun interview to do, but I actually want to start with something a little bit serious—creative collaboration! It’s such a big theme for us, I feel like it comes back around to that over and over again. And obviously, that’s important for me and you, but also it got me thinking about cowriting. I also co-authored a book with Eric Meyer, it’s called Design for Real Life, you may have heard of it. KL Uh, yeah I have. And I remember when you came to us, that’s actually the first and only book so far that we’ve published by two authors at A Book Apart. And when you pitched it, I was kind of not worried, but—and less worried that it would be hard for us to publish, but more about what the process was going to be like because I’d never done that with two authors and I wasn’t sure if you all had an approach or how you would do it. And I don’t think I ever really asked you about how that went. What was it like? SWB You know, you’re asking a little late. The book’s already been out for like [KL laughs] two years! [laughs] KL I know! [laughing] I’m like, “by the way…” SWB Okay! So, at first, I had this moment where I thought that maybe it would be easier than writing a book by myself because I’d actually just written my first book alone before that. And, you know, I thought it’s fewer words per person, right? KL [laughing] Yeah. That totally sounds like good math. SWB Yeah. [laughs] It wasn’t really easier. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. This is not negative in any way, it just wasn’t for me. And I think Eric would probably agree, it wasn’t necessarily an easier process than writing alone because me and Eric, we had never worked together before. So, we didn’t really have a shared history or a shared voice. It wasn’t like this came out of all these other projects, it came out of just sort of—we had some overlapping interests and we had recently become very driven to help designers sort of understand how their work could impact people or hurt people. And so we came at it with a lot of shared passion and sort of some shared values, but we just—we didn’t have a body of work or a history together to build on. So, it was like starting from scratch in a lot of ways. And I think one of the things that we tried to do was just communicate really clearly and really kind of concretely about who was doing what and how we wanted to do things. And it’s not like every decision we made at the beginning about how to break up the work stuck, things morphed over time. But I think it sort of set us up to talk to each other about it and not make assumptions about it, which was good. KL Yeah. And I can imagine. I mean, you’re two different people and it’s two different perspectives, and even though you’re both really great writers, I just want to say that at least from my perspective, it felt very smooth. And I think you’re a natural lead taker on projects, so I’m sure it helped having someone sort of steering the ship. Were your conversations with Eric productive? SWB Yeah, I think that one of the things you mentioned that it felt very smooth, I think one of the reasons it felt very smooth was that we talked a lot about how to fit things together. And, like you said, we’re both strong writers, but I think my experience is a little bit more editorial, meaning I have a lot more experience editing other people’s work. And so, for me, it would be painfully obvious where he had written something and where I had written something. And so for me— KL [laughing] Right. SWB —I spent more of that time smoothing things out before you ever saw it. KL Right. SWB And I worried a little bit—I was nervous about doing too much of it because I didn’t want to make him feel like I was changing all of his stuff or his voice, but I think that we had a good conversation about that. And fundamentally, he trusted me from that perspective and also wasn’t precious about it. And I’m glad that we had that because it did allow me to take something I was already strong at—I’m quick at doing that kind of smoothing editorial from editing other people’s work for years, that it ended up feeling pretty good. I think it made me—I think, I hope—a better writer or a better partner in projects and it also I think just made me better or more confident in collaborating with people, which is good because now I collaborate with you all the time and I don’t know, I feel like it’s going okay. [laughs] [5:35] KL Uh, definitely. I think about this a lot over the years of running A Book Apart because everyone I work with is freelance. So, there’s a lot of collaboration that has to happen in all sorts of different degrees of intensity. Even though we’ve developed a network of editors, for example, I work mainly with Lisa Maria Martin, who is our managing editor. SWB I love Lisa Maria! You know, I have gotten to collaborate with her too. I think the first time was actually way back in 2012. KL Wow! SWB I knew she wanted to quit her job, and a project came up where I was putting together a team for it—it was a really big project—and I was like, “hey, if you are ready to get out of there, I can get you on to this project with me. It’ll go for three months.” She wanted to move and so the timing was perfect. The project was not perfect, [both laugh] but the timing was good and it was the right moment for me to be able to be like, “hey, I think you’d be a really great fit for this.” And from there we’ve gotten to be able to work together a bunch of different times. And it’s just awesome when you have somebody that you can kind of sync with and that you can really trust. And so I’m really glad that you get to work with her! KL I know, me too. And I love working with her. It’s funny because I think about sort of the trajectory of how we’ve built out processes and stuff. And for a long time, I thought having several editors working across projects was the best approach, but then working more and more closely with Lisa Maria, I realized that it was more effective to have a lead on everything and then bring others in as needed. And I think we both actually realized that. Plus I think we both really love having what we consider a quote on quote “real colleague” in our day to day ABA work. I mean, I know I do and I think it’s just been really important to both of us. But I don’t think I’ve collaborated with someone on a really big project in a long time. The podcast and the other work you and I are doing are definitely the biggest outside of my daily gig. And I’m going to say it, it’s been an incredible journey. You know how I like to talk about journeys. [laughing] I have learned so— SWB [laughing] I do, I do know this about you. [both laugh] KL [laughing] I am looking at my crystals on my windowsill. I have learned so much about myself. One thing I did not realize until we started doing more together was that I was really hungry for new challenges. And then we started the podcast and I was like, “wow, here are all these things I do not know how to do.” Like developing a good interview, or crafting articulate ways to tell the stories I want to tell. And I learned so much from you, you’ve helped me get a lot more comfortable with that articulation and you just really make me feel like I am capable of anything. SWB That’s so great to hear because I also—I feel like it’s been really exciting for me over the course of the past year to hear you sort of get more comfortable in interviews, get more comfortable in our conversations and open up more. We’ve talked about this. KL Yeah. SWB I came into this doing a lot of public speaking and it doesn’t mean I knew shit about podcasting [KL laughs] because I did not. I did not. But it did mean that I was a little bit more confident putting sentences together on the fly. KL Totally. SWB And that’s just something you have to get used to. And so, I don’t know, I feel like over the course of us working on this, I’ve been like, “oh my gosh, it’s so great to hear more of your voice shining through on things.” KL I love it. SWB Okay, so something else I’ve been thinking about after we did this interview was what do you do when you have a creative project or a side project or whatever it is, and it doesn’t necessarily align with the rest of your professional identity? So, I asked our interviewees about how this fits in with the jobs that they have because they have jobs in journalism or digital strategy. And I wondered, “are you ever worried about not being taken seriously in those spheres because you’re writing feminist erotica in this other sphere?” And I asked that question for me because [laughs] I’ve wondered about that for this show. We are really open here, I talk about a lot of personal stuff, we interview people who talk about periods and sex tech or just subjects that I think a lot of corporate culture is really uncomfortable with, right? Like talking about race and racism directly. And so I’ve worried and wondered and worried and wondered over and over again—what does that do to my consulting business? And, you know, it actually hasn’t [laughs] necessarily been great for it! KL [laughs] Yeah, I mean, it’s so interesting to hear you talk about that because I think my work is associated with A Book Apart as a company, it’s so different for me. I’m not selling myself directly in the way that you are. And I feel like I do have a certain amount of flexibility and sort of safety to branch out and expand my professional persona. And obviously, I also want to stay mindful of how I present myself on behalf of A Book Apart, but it’s so interesting to kind of look at those two things side by side. [10:15] SWB Yeah and I guess as I think about it and as I talk through it out loud, I think in my head I think, “oh, maybe this podcast is at odds with my consulting.” But I actually am not sure that’s what it is. It’s more maybe, I don’t know, I guess over the past year, I feel like I’ve invested a ton of time in getting this off the ground and really wanting to make it good. And that isn’t tied directly to my consulting and as a result of that, I haven’t done a lot of work to publicly talk about practical issues within design, content strategy, user experience. And I do still have opinions on that stuff, it’s not like I don’t. But I feel like I’ve been less interested in writing and speaking about it, except for talking about sort of bias and harm in tech culture, which isn’t really the kind of thing you get hired for as a consultant. KL Yeah. SWB So, I guess maybe it’s more that. It’s like, where am I spending my time and my focus and my energy? And then thinking, “well what is the right balance?” I might give a talk about something like bias and inclusion in tech products and that might be great for a conference, but do I need that to be able to turn into a longer-term project? Do I need to build clients out of that? Do I need to focus specifically on building that side of things? Or am I okay if people don’t call me as much? [KL laughs] Am I going to be okay with that? KL Yeah. SWB And what does that look like? And so I don’t know that I have the exact answer to that yet, but it’s something I’m really thinking about. And it’s funny, it’s been seven years that I’ve worked for myself and I think this is the very first time that I’ve felt a little bit like, not just that I’m making evolutionary change or iterative change, but more like, “oh, you might be reaching a crossroads.” KL [laughing] Oh my gosh, yes! I was just realizing that. I have been with A Book Apart for—it will be six years in March, which just—I can’t believe it. And it’s amazing and it really feels like a big accomplishment, but I also think about how that’s a long time and only in the last year have I really branched out and developed a bit more of myself that isn’t strictly associated with A Book Apart. SWB I think that’s awesome. I think six years is a long time and I think it is something to celebrate, but I think it’s also a huge thing to celebrate that in the past year, you have been like, “oh wait, I’m not just this business, I am also a person with an individual identity” and wanting to kind of tease that out a bit. And, I don’t know, maybe we’re at the crossroads together. Maybe we can do a remake of that Britney Spears movie. KL Uhh, you know I’m down for that. [both laugh] SWB So, okay. So as much as I want to resolve all of our career questions in the next ten minutes, I don’t think it’s going to happen. KL I mean, that would be great. [laughs] SWB But I will say this. I felt really inspired when I heard the New Erotica authors talk about how they worked together and how they think of their collaboration and how they trust each other because it’s—I don’t know, I feel like that’s more how we work together. KL Yeah, it totally is. SWB They’re funnier, but that’s okay [KL laughs] because it made me really confident that however things shake out and whatever it is that I decide to do with my life and however we decide to work together in the future, I guess I feel like you’re going to be at the center of all of it, which is great. [music fades in, plays for five seconds, and fades out] [13:21] Interview: the authors of New Erotica for Feminists KL Today’s show is real special because we’ve got multiple guests joining us. They are three of the four authors who wrote one of our new favorite books—I’m going to give it to all the feminists in my life for the holidays. It’s called New Erotica for Feminists: Satirical Fantasies of Love, Lust and Equal Pay and we are so very here for it. Brooke, Fiona, and Carrie, welcome to No, You Go. Carrie Wittmer Thank you for having us. KL So, your fourth co-author, Caitlin, couldn’t make it today, but we are really excited to talk with the four of you. How did you all start working together? CW So, we all met on the internet on Facebook about two—almost exactly two years ago. I was a member along with Caitlin, Brooke and Fiona of a private Facebook group for female comedy writers. And I was feeling very frustrated because I couldn’t get any of my work published. I didn’t feel like any of the sites that existed, while great, didn’t really fit my voice. And so one day I just posted, “hey, does anyone want to start a female satire site with me?” and Caitlin and Fiona responded, we started emailing. And Brooke and Caitlin knew each other because they did comedy together in Portland, Oregon. And so Caitlin added Brooke and for a couple of months, we just started planning a website that became The Belladonna Comedy. And so we literally met on Facebook. KL That’s so cool. And we definitely want to ask about The Belladonna a little later on, but since we are talking about the book, let’s dive into that. Tell us what it’s all about and how it came to be. Fiona Taylor So, one day we were on GChat and we were talking about our dream of having The Belladonna get a sponsorship from LaCroix sparkling water. And Brooke said, “I’m not really sure how sponsorships work, but I think Tom Hardy drives up to your house in a box truck full of LaCroix and cash and just [KL laughs] backs up to your garage and unloads it and plays with your rescue dog.” And we were like, “yeah, that sounds scientific.” [SWB & KL laugh] So, then I said, “well, actually, that sounds like porn for Brooklyn women.” And I think Caitlyn may have said, “oh, that’s a premise. Let’s throw that into a Google Doc and start going with it.” And of course, we all had ideas from there and it morphed into the McSweeney’s piece—“New Erotica for Feminists”—that quickly went viral once it was published. And about a week later, we got an email from a book editor in the UK saying, “do you want to write a book?” And we ended up writing the book in three months and then editing it in two, so it was on a really accelerated schedule. KL That’s incredible. So, you mentioned the McSweeney’s piece went viral. Was it weird to have an article become something much larger? [16:11] CW I think it was—I’m speaking for myself—for a comedy article to get that wild, for lack of a better word, was really new and shocking to me. For my full time job I’m a reporter at Business Insider, so I’m quite used to some pieces taking off and having a huge audience. But for my comedy, which is what I’m truly passionate about, I was like, “wait, people actually want to read this.” KL [laughing] Yeah. So, there are lots of things we love about the book and in the beginning, you note that you “intentionally removed many identifiers to allow a diverse array of readers to superimpose themselves onto the page.” I personally think this makes the book very sexy. Why was that so important to do that? Brooke Preston I think these were conversations we were having throughout the process. We wanted to be very aware of the fact that we happened to be four, white, straight, cis women and making sure that were were understanding our privilege there, but also that were were writing in a way that made every reader truly feel welcome. At first, we tried to write a lot of diverse vignettes and reps that were maybe about a woman in a headscarf or about not touching someone’s hair, but it didn’t feel right to speak as someone else’s experience that we didn’t live. And so we decided to kind of go the opposite direction with it and remove a lot of the identifiers unless we were talking about a specific famous person because then everyone can sort of superimpose themselves, as they do in real erotica, and become the sexy star and feel included. CW Yeah, I think another thing we wanted to do with the book was we were trying to kind of embrace good erotica because a lot of great writers have written good erotica. Most of it on the internet is bad, but there are some great writers who have written good erotica and the best erotica is not specific because it invites you to imagine yourself. I think I said at another talk a couple of days ago how erotica is more specific to women and more popular to women because they’re not seeing some guy rail a woman in a kind of gross, upsetting way. They’re imagining themselves, not seeing someone else do it. So, I think it was important to us to also stay true to the good erotica that we’ve seen. KL Yeah. Things start out super strong with the opening vignette and I will read it, if I may. [laughs] “The cop asks if I know why he pulled me over. ‘Because my taillight is out?’ ‘Yes ma’am, it’s not a huge deal, but it could be a potential safety issue. I’m happy to escort you to a busy and well-lit garage a few blocks up run entirely by female mechanics. I won’t give you a ticket if you can take care of it now.’ ‘That’s fair,’ I say, my eyes lingering over his clearly visible badge and identification.” So, [laughs] A) that’s hot. [FT laughs] B) I know this is satire, but legitimately it turns me on too, which makes me think about how sad I am that literal fairness, equality, and not being treated terribly is so scintillating. [laughs] Can you tell us more about how you explored the play between satire and erotica and maybe what kind of boundaries you came up against, if any? [19:26] FT I think one of the things that we discovered while we were writing this is we read our joke and we were like, “haha, that’s so funny.” And then we were like, “but is it really funny? Because that’s how the world should be.” And then there was sort of a mixture of sadness and rage in there as well. So, I think that’s what we tried to do with the satire is just sort of create—it’s funny, but it really shouldn’t be funny because this is really how the world should be. BP And our UK team, as part of the promotion of the book, created a “My Feminist Fantasy” hashtag and had readers kind of write their own vignettes about what their feminist fantasies would be. And it was—they were very funny and very good, but also it was striking that so many of them just centered around safety—just basic safety. Someone wrote in and the gist of the vignette was that they were waiting at a bus stop and a man comes up next to them and takes off his headphones and says, “I can tell that it’s making you uncomfortable that I’m here and you don’t know me, so I’m just going to wait at a different bus stop.” [laughs] And that’s the whole vignette. And that so many of these are just like you realize that we’re not at a place societally on either side of the pond where we can just take our safety for granted. And so even though we’ve come so far in the last year or so in the national conversation, this was sort of also chance to say, “yes, but big and small, there are still so many inequalities that we still have to address and that are still so far from being our erotic ideal [laughs] or reality.” CW Yeah. I’ll also say my approach to writing this book was a little different than my co-authors in that I just read a lot of erotica. This is also how I approach a lot of my satirical writing and comedy. I just go deep into the thing that I’m trying to satirize. So, I just read a lot of erotica and I thought, “okay, I just read a really upsetting master and dom thing with a buttplug and they were coworkers, how can I make this into—spin the feminist issue on this?” So, instead of thinking of what are the issues I want to address, I did what are the erotica things I want to put in the book and then how can I spin them? So, it was really eye opening. KL Yeah, I can imagine. That’s super interesting. And in another set of vignettes in the New Erotica for Feminists Who Are Parents chapter—that chapter is perfection. One of our faves from that, [laughs] again if I may. “I open my blouse, my naked breasts peeking through for a fleeting moment. I breastfeed my child in public. It is extremely uneventful and everyone is chill about it.” So racy! [laughs] I mean, we know from friends with babies that this is quite literally a fantasy. You’re never far from a judgey person or a creep. Why do you think it’s important to call this out and why was it important to include these in the book? BP Fiona and I are both parents. But obviously even though Carrie and Caitlin are not currently parents, they are very supportive of women who choose to be parents. And so the four of us really felt like parents are really just an overworked and under-appreciated part of the population. And feminists who are parents are facing a lot of really real challenges and a lot of the most egregious examples of this inequality—the lack of paid maternity leave being a great one. Or talking about a less than perfect split of emotional labour in the household. And so, I think we have a joke in the table of contents that says something like, “we’ll explore the fantasies of these parents, even if it’s really just naps.” And I think we wanted to make sure there was a parent chapter, even though I think it was the hardest to write because obviously, you don’t want there to be any whiff of that you’re trying to eroticize children. [laughs] And so it was the hardest entry point to try and crack, but it was important for us to include. KL So, talking a little bit more about the process, what was the book writing process like for the four of you? FT I think it was less challenging because there were four of us, which made it a lot easier. Someone always has an idea, even if someone else is like, “I am totally braindead at this moment.” So, what we did is we opened a Google Doc. First, in our book proposal we worked out the sections. So, everyone just started throwing ideas in there and I think our work on The Belladonna—we edit together, we write pieces together, we’re just so used to working with each other now that I don’t think there’s ever been an issue where someone has edited or added to someone else’s work and anyone has had an issue with that because we all make each other’s work stronger and better I think. So, people would have an idea, sort of throw it in there, get it as far as they could, then everyone else would sort of come in and go at it and make it stronger and I think that we’re just really lucky that we collaborate well together. CW Yeah. I think another thing we did really well was communicate on when we were going to work a bunch on the book. So, I would send a GChat to the group like, “hey, I’m getting up early on Saturday morning and I’m planning on spending the entire day writing.” And we were just really good about communicating when we could, and so I think our contributions to the book were all very equal. I mean, we’re—like Fiona said, because we do edit each other and add jokes to some that maybe we—I originally wrote, we all have an imprint on every single part of the book. A lot of people have been asking, “oh, so which chapters did you write, Carrie?” And I’m like, “I wrote the whole book. We all wrote the whole book.” [KL laughs] [25:30] BP I would just say the other piece of that to tack on—we all bring a sort of different sensibility to our writing, so Fiona has a lot of literary depth, as does Caitlin. Caitlin has a strong knowledge of mythology. Carrie, being an entertainment reporter, has a ton of science fiction and TV and referential knowledge. So, everyone just brings something different to the table and has a slightly different voice. And so they meld really well together and so it was a good check on ourselves because there were a few times where we would go back and edit and then in the early stages—the original person that had started the draft of that vignette and would say, “oh, that wasn’t actually the joke that I was originally going for.” But then if we weren’t getting it, maybe the audience wouldn’t have gotten it. KL That’s so cool. It really sounds like you all do really work very well together. You also all co-founded The Belladonna together, which is a satire site by women and other marginalized genders for everyone. We love this. How did you decide to found the site and what are your goals for it? BP I think one of the pieces that was really important to us was that what we didn’t want to do was create a site that the byline wasn’t really of value. The tricky part when you’re a new site and you don’t have any cache or followers yet [laughs] is that we wanted to make it really clear that we wanted to make this a high quality writing site that was selective. Not so selective that women felt they could never be part of it or develop their voice on it, but also not something where you could just send anything in and we would just put it on the site. Because I think those sites exist and they serve their purpose, but they’re not as valuable of a professional byline because they’re not a selective site. So, we wanted there to be an editorial process that was really focused on A) showing women’s voices—developing their own voice, rather than having them fit into a specific style that way that say _The Onion_— FT Yeah, because we want to really help writers and at the moment, unfortunately, we can’t pay because we’re not making any money from the site. One day we hope to have that change, that is a goal. So, in terms of—we can’t pay people, so we are trying to make sure that we give them valuable feedback that will help them get published on our site, help them get published on other sites. And sometimes when we read a piece and it’s good, but it’s not quite right for us, we’ll make suggestions about where they should submit it in order to get another byline. So, we really just want to be a place where voices that wouldn’t be heard that frequently are sort of amplified and we do want to be able to monetize and we do want to be able to pay writers and I’m sure we have other goals too. BP Yeah, I think just the biggest thing is just building that community and widening that pipeline. SWB So, you mentioned that you’re not yet making money off of the site and that you’d like to, and I wanted to ask a little about just sort of where you see the site going and how you kind of keep it in perspective. Because I know that running an indie editorial site is famous for being hard, right? We all miss—well, maybe I won’t speak for all of you—but I know me and Katel definitely miss The Toast, I miss The Awl, and I’m curious—as you’re thinking about what you want to do with The Belladonna, how do you kind of make it work, despite the fact that it is hard to run an editorial site on the internet without necessarily having a big influx of cash? CW Yeah, it’s not easy. You’re very right that it’s very hard. All of us have made sacrifices in our personal life I think to devote to the site. I think we each spend about ten hours maybe per week, give or take depending on how many submissions we get, on our work for the site. And we all work full-time, so it’s mostly our nights and weekends, our days off. And I think that we keep doing it even though we don’t get paid for it yet because we’re all so passionate about it. I know that sounds very cheesy, but it’s true. We really believe in ourselves, we really believe in our writers and we all want to get ahead—we want big TV writing jobs and we want that. So, we’re going to keep doing this because we believe in ourselves and our community and we know that this is a great way to get ourselves out there. [30:04] BP And honestly, we’ve gotten so many great emails and some of the most moving are when someone writes and says, “you know, I was going to give up on comedy and I just didn’t feel heard or appreciated in this community at all, and now I’m going to keep going.” Or a lot of people will write to us and say, “that was the nicest rejection letter I’ve ever gotten and that makes me want to submit to you again.” To me, those are real people that are experiencing maybe a lasting career shift, or maybe they’ll say, “I found sort of my own writing partners or my own people through this site and through this community and now we’re off writing together for other sites.” That is a real, tangible effect that you had on someone’s life. And so to us, that’s well worth the small time sacrifices and financial sacrifices that we’re currently putting in this site to just see this vision that we’d had actually coming to fruition and happening. SWB Yeah, that’s really interesting. It sounds like it’s not just, “we want to run an editorial site to run an editorial site,” but that there’s all these other potential outcomes that you’re looking at like are there screenwriting or TV writing gigs out there? What kind of community does this create? And that sort of changes some of the incentives, which I love hearing about that. BP And we also have really great interns. We hire a pair of interns every—it was designed to be quarterly, but in the last few rounds they have been so great that they have offered and we have begged them to stay on for longer, so it’s been more like six month cycles. And they contribute pieces to the site, they help us on the editorial side just making sure, you know, all the trains run on time. They also sometimes have their own special projects of something they’re really passionate about. Whether it’s how can we bring more diversity to the site and curating some initiatives around that, to merch—we’ve been in process talking about how do we maybe do that. So, it’s been so beneficial to have these young women, who are hungry to start their careers and so talented. SWB And so I want to pick up on something that has come up a little bit here and there as we’ve been chatting and that’s that you all are also doing other jobs. So, for those kinds of jobs, is it ever weird to navigate the different parts of your professional identity? Do you ever get worried that commercial clients or, Carrie, for you, journalists or editors will think you’re, I don’t know, not serious about that work or look at what you’re doing with erotic feminist satire [laughs] as being at odds with the other part of your identity? [BP laughs] CW I don’t really care. [laughs & SWB laughs] And if they have a problem with it, I’ll go somewhere else. That’s what I have to say because this is what I care about. [laughs] Honestly! FT Yeah, I haven’t really run into that issue. My boss, I have to say, is really excited that I published a book. He’s going to publish his own book. And he doesn’t necessarily tell clients what the name of my book is, but he’ll be like, “oh, she wrote a book.” You know, which—he’s like, “this helps me too.” So, so far it’s working out. KL So, Brooke, you and Caitlin are both involved in Second City, right? Can you tell us a little bit about that? BP Yeah! So, Caitlin is the person that created the online satire writing program and curriculum for Second City. And she’s taught that as part of their faculty for seven years. And then she brought me on just about a year ago, and now I teach her curriculum and I’ve added sort of my own notes and experiences to that as well for about a year. KL That’s so cool. I would never have ever dreamed there would be an online satire writing program. How did that start and how has it sort of evolved? BP I mean, I think Caitlin could speak to the origins of it more. But I know that the demand is really high, it’s one of the top enrolled programs perennially in the online pantheon of classes at Second City. And first of all, kudos to Second City for having online classes because I’m the only one of the four of us that doesn’t live in New York. I live in Columbus, Ohio, but that doesn’t make me any less serious about comedy writing. And we’re finding that that’s true with a lot of people and especially women, either because they have a job obligation or family obligation, that not everyone can or wants to live in New York or LA, but that that has been prohibitive for people to have professional comedy careers. So, The Second City really saw that and helped open this new channel that has raised so much talent from across the country and across the world because you can really take classes from anywhere. And it was instrumental to my development. I took Caitlin’s first iteration of classes when she developed the class, I took the first round as a student. And that really helped me polish up work and polish up my skills and find a group of people to write with and earn a lot of bylines that have led to other opportunities. [35:02] KL I love that it sort of morphed into that for you. So, we’re really interested in how you all work together, obviously. And not just logistics of making work happen, creative or otherwise, but also just how it is to work with people who are also your friends. What drives you to keep making things together? BP I think we just really enjoy each other. We are friends and we like being around each other and we really are also true admirers of one another personally and professionally—of our work and our voices. And so it just makes it fun. I wish that I had more time to devote to the things that we’re working on together because it’s much more fulfilling for me—sort of in the vein of what Carrie said—it’s much more fulfilling to me to do this work than it is to necessarily work on a white paper about something. Whereas I’m good at that and I can do it, but it’s not bringing out my passion. [laughs] CW I think it also has a lot to do with the fact that we like each other like Brooke said and we work very well together, but we also know that one day, we can probably help each other do something great or do something great together. We could maybe one day create a show together, or one of us could get hired on a show and try to help us get in too. So, I think it’s just the fact that we have that passion that Brooke is talking about that’s never going to go away. It also helps us just always want to work together because we know that this is something really special that will turn into something big. And it did! [laughs] Our relationship already has benefitted all of our comedy careers, so it can only hopefully go up from here! FT Yeah, and I’m just going to add that I think we all have a lot of rage at society [laughs] in the path to here. And this partnership helps us sort of channel it into a constructive way where it’s at least cathartic and we can feel like we’re helping other people laugh. I mean, that’s one of the things that came out of this book—we would love for it to change the world. It’s probably not going to do that, but at least it entertains people and makes them feel like they are not so alone. And we also have a resource section at the end where people can decide what they can handle and take on and sort of try to change things. And so hopefully our book will make people laugh and then they can sort of go do something constructive as well. KL Sara and I feel this so much. We sort of back each other up and we keep each other going and we’re kind of these—we’re rocks for each other in all of this [laughs] hellscape that’s happening! [BP laughs] And we keep inspiring each other, so I think that’s so important. [FT laughs] And it’s really been important for us to figure out what the boundaries are around and between how we work together and what our friendships looks like. Is there ever any need to adjust or readjust the working relationship in order to kind of keep nurturing the friendships? BP Probably on smaller levels. I mean, I think we all communicate so often and pretty honestly that there aren’t needs for major adjustments too much. One example that’s funny now in retrospect—everyone always tells you how hard the writing process is and that you’re going to get exhausted and that you’re going to have these breakdowns sort of in the middle of it. And I was thinking, “you know, I think we’ve done pretty well, we haven’t had any major breakdowns.” [laughs] And then we were on a call talking about the past—someone had sort of mentioned that they were interested in potentially talking to us about in the future doing a pilot around this idea. And we had tried to start in the process of also doing the book—the book wasn’t out yet—thinking about how could we spin this off into a pilot idea. And I’d had a particularly hard week, I was very exhausted. And I don’t know if you’ve ever reached the creative place where you’re just like, “I don’t have ideas any more!” [laughs] “I don’t have any of any kind!” So, I was just sort of at that point. But I had grown up as a comedy and TV junkie, I’d really, really—what an opportunity when someone brings you to that. So, you’re thinking, “I don’t want to miss this.” And so I was so just sort of beside myself that I didn’t have any ideas [laughs] that were very good for this that Caitlin very gently on an internal call with the four of us said, “do you have any ideas, Brooke?” And I was sort of quiet for ten seconds and then I just burst into tears [laughs] on the call! And I’m like, [wailing] “I don’t have any ideas!” [laughs] It’s only funny now in retrospect, but they were so taken aback and like, “oh, are you crying?” And I’m like, [wailing] “I think so!” But they were so sweet about it and were just like, “well, maybe we should just back up [laughing] and do this after the book comes out. Maybe this is a sign that this is too much to have on our plates right now at one time.” So, that’s sort of a more extreme example of—you know, I should have been more self aware of just like, “nope, that’s too much for me!” and just been more aware of it. But I was just so exhausted that it just manifested in this sudden breakdown that they were very sweet about. [40:20] SWB I love that story because I think it would be great if we were all so self-aware [CW laughs] that we were going to prevent ourselves from going into meltdown mode. [BP laughs] But you need the friends who can help you even when you do go to meltdown mode, so I love that you all found that in each other. I feel like that’s a theme that me and Katel come around to all the time on the show. So, we are just about out of time though and while we could talk with you all day, we’re going to have to let you go. And so before we do, I want to make sure we ask, where can everybody keep up with more of the awesome stuff you’re working on and very importantly, buy your book? BP So, you can buy our book anywhere that fine books are sold. If your local store doesn’t have it, it would be super great if you could ask them to carry it. Our website is thebelladonnacomedy.com. And we have a lot more ideas in the works that we hope to bring more books and more projects to you in the future if you someone will let us do that. So, that would be great. SWB Well, I certainly hope that they do. And thank you all so much for being on the show! [music fades in, plays for five seconds, and fades out] Career Chat with Shopify KL Hey friends, it’s time for our weekly career chat with Shopify. You know, I manage a small business and an online storefront and using Shopify to help us do that is a no-brainer. But what about all those big businesses? That’s where Shopify Plus comes in because they believe large merchants should love their commerce platform too. I really dig that. And the best part? They’re hiring an Enterprise Sales Rep to show high-growth, high-volume merchants like Tesla, RedBull, GE, and L’Oréal all the reliability and flexibility Shopify Plus has to offer. This isn’t just any sales position either. The job description says you’ll need to have a sense of adventure and an entrepreneurial spirit. That means you’ll be taking the reins and growing fast in the role. And get this, you’ll rack up experience equivalent to a real-world MBA. That’s really cool. I also just really love that Shopify values hiring diversity for all their positions. They say, “we know that diversity makes for the best problem solving and creative thinking, which is why we’re dedicated to adding new perspectives to the team and encourage everyone to apply.” So, if that sounds good to you, learn more about the Enterprise Sales Rep position and dozens more at shopify.com/careers. [music fades in, plays for five seconds, and fades out] Fuck Yeah of the Week KL Okay, okay. Let’s get to our fuck yeah. Sara, it’s pretty important this week. SWB Yes, it is. So, you all remember our third co-host, Jenn Lukas. So, back in October, we told you she was out for the season. And, well, she’s decided that she’s not going to be able to come back to the show. And we are really bummed out that we couldn’t figure out a way to make it work, but me and Katel decided we’re going to keep the show going. We actually have a lot more on that next week because we actually have some big news to share about the show! But this week, we wanted to first make sure we took a moment and give a fuck yeah sendoff to Jenn! So, what we want to do is listen to some favorite clips. KL Oh my gosh, yes. This is such a great idea. You know, I have really been missing her voice on parenting and figuring out how to be a mom—and any day now, a mom of two kids—while being awesome at work. And it was so helpful to have her open up about stuff like family leave. JL Maybe two months into my leave, I started watching conference talks [laughing] while I breast-fed because I missed it! I missed being in the know and being still connected to that part of me that is my career. And being like, “how do I stay ambitious while I’m physically acting as food for my child?” [laughs] SWB You know, it was so funny. I remember she actually texted me during that time to ask me, “hey, are any of the talks you’ve given recently online? Are there videos of them?” And I was like, [KL laughs] “yes, but why would you be watching them?” And I just didn’t get! So, that conversation totally helped me get, right? I was like, “oh, because she wanted to feel more connected to the stuff that she felt like she was missing.” And so that made me also remember we need to make sure as we go forward that we talk about parenting-related issues. And we definitely need to bring on more badass moms because otherwise I’m not going to realize all that stuff! KL Yes! SWB You know what I also miss though? I miss Jenn’s sense of humor a lot. She was always bringing so much energy to the show. Like when we all talked about periods? JL You know, they have the Myers-Briggs test and these color tests and I just want you to know that my personality right now is period! KL I know, [laughs] I could not stop laughing. Something Jenn always did was bring a lot of energy to the show, like you said. And also no one—no one—loves Jeopardy as much as Jenn. [45:05] JL At one point during labour, I think I definitely said to my husband and doula, “I wonder who won College Jeopardy.” [SWB & KL laugh] SWB Yeah, so when Lilly Chin, who was the winner of that College Jeopardy tournament that she mentioned, when she agreed to be on the show, I thought Jenn was going to lose it. [KL laughs] Not quite like Ke$ha level of lose it, but still, she was going to lose it! KL Yeah. SWB So fuck yeah, Jenn, we miss you. And we are sending you all of our best vibes as you prep for baby number two! KL Fuck yeah! That’s it for this week’s episode of No, You Go. NYG is recorded in our home city of Philadelphia and produced by Steph Colbourn. Our theme music is by The Diaphone. Thanks to Brooke Preston, Carrie Wittmer, and Fiona Taylor for being our guests today. And if you loved today’s show as much as we did, don’t forget to subscribe and rate us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Your support helps us do what we do and we love that! See you again next week for our season finale! SWB And big news! Bye! KL Bye! [music fades in, plays alone for 32 seconds, and fades out]

So if you didn’t read the title in your best Jodeci voice...exit stage left...(Just Kidding...finish the episode)Champagne Sammy & Feisty PISCES sit down and recap their weekend at the VC polo classic, whether or not they are asking guys for their number first & reminscing about old times on Gchat

What is the future of sustainable fashion? Ask this week's guest, and she's likely to tell you it's about a lot more than consciously-made clothes. In fact, as the founder of a new venture fund backed by none other than Eileen Fisher herself, the FEST-ive voice we'll be hearing in this episode of the Spirit of 608 podcast is quick to explain how - and why - innovations that go beyond what's hanging on the racks are the drivers of change she and the fund she started earlier this year are focused on. Meet this week's guest, Karla Mora, Founder of Alante Capital. Did you hear about the Spirit of 608 Survey on this episode? Take it for your chance at some amazing prizes.  What you'll learn What does an investment firm like Alante Capital look for in an entrepreneur? For one, commitment. No only is Karla focused on an entrepreneur's staying power, she's also looking for those well-honed listening skills. Why? Listening to criticism is a lot like listening to market feedback, says Karla, and how you handle it can determine whether or not your business can succeed. In this episode, Karla talks about the skills and traits she looks for in every entrepreneur. How you'll be inspired Spending some time in a different place can often help you clear your mind and give you a clean slate to solve new problems. Listen to Karla explain how her journey to Costa Rica, where she lived a year, allowed her to escape the noise of the big city and let her think incubate what became Alante Capital. What you'll tell your friends Okay, this might shock you, especially how obsessed with slow fashion I am, but maybe we need to stop categorically hating big name brands. After all, they're likely to be the ones who are able to create real systemic change in the apparel industry by shifting to more sustainable, ethical and environmentally conscious practices. Yeah, I know, I thought we were supposed to totally boycott anything but small, independent companies, but Karla's perspective shows just why biggest ball of all in the fashion industry may very well still be in the court of the likes of Nike, Adidas, Levi's, Gucci and similarly established brands. Resource of the week Karla likes to keep her apps simple: GChat for easier communication, Boomerang to make sure she's on top of her emails, and Grammarly to make sure her grammar is on point when she does get to those emails. This girl's got her priorities in the right place! Connect with Karla Mora Website: www.alantecapital.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alantecapital/ Instagram: @alantecapital Twitter: @AlanteCapital Mentioned in this episode: How I Built This Podcast International Coffee Organization Building Markets Peace Dividend Trust Elios Foundation Village Capital Nike Adidas Karen Group Gucci Stella McCartney Levi's Patagonia Eileen Fisher GChat Slack Boomerang Grammarly Venture Deals: Be Smarter Than Your Lawyer and Venture Capitalist by Brad Feld Mission in a Bottle Honest Tea Zoom Serial T-shirt motto: Be patient and persistent. Listen to your intuition and do not act out of fear. Did you hear about the Spirit of 608 Survey on this episode? Take it for your chance at some amazing prizes. Find more episodes featuring women at the forefront of FEST online at www.Spiritof608.com.

We have a new website that we would love to show you. Our communication process has been streamlined and we’ve upgraded our information database.  Want to sell your home? Find out what your home is worth.  Want to buy a home? Search all homes for sale.Today we wanted to introduce you to our phenomenal new website that we just launched called www.findaustinareahouses.com. In response to some feedback we’ve received from users of our old website, we’ve streamlined communication and made some important upgrades in both the amount information we supply about listed houses and the surrounding areas and how we provide that information. To streamline our communication, we’ve enabled a live chat within the website. If you’re online and you’re looking at something you like, you can just shoot us a quick chat and say “Hey, I want to see this property,” or “I like this about this property, send me more information about it.” The feature is no different than using Facebook messenger or Gchat. We’ve also teamed up with two amazing lenders who you can directly communicate with as well and ask other questions we may not be able to answer. Our new website will improve communication and provide more information. As far as upgrading our information database, from now on, when you’re looking at a specific listing, you’ll see links from Yelp about nearby restaurants, convenience stores, gas stations, etc., detailed information on surrounding school districts, and a scorecard to talk about the pros and cons of the home that you can keep in your profile for later when you reference the property. Lastly, we have a new and improved seller suite. This feature simply allows you to enter all pertinent information about the home you plan on selling so we can give you a comprehensive market analysis. Nobody likes to just sit around waiting for information. Technology has advanced to the point that people expect things right away, and we’ve taken measures to accommodate this. If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to us or visit the website. We look forward to hearing from you!

We cover tons of ground in this ep, but it can be boiled down to: Megan’s TPA Orianna story, and the Gchat fistpump of celebration The pro gaming apparatus that Steven handmade for Megan Psychoanalyzing what types of stories Steven and… Continue Reading → The post Episode 11 – Overpaying for collector’s edition everything appeared first on Swag Tier.

Training for and successfully running a marathon is an accomplishment few will ever achieve. Running a marathon in under 4 hours? Fewer people still. But training for a marathon, running it in under 4 hours, and ALSO working as an assistant editor on the TV series Empire? That's downright insanity! Or is it? In this episode I have a candid in-person conversation with Natalie Boschan, my assistant editor and partner in crime, about why she chose to take on this monumental task, and more importantly how it helped her grow stronger as a human being. Our show sponsors: EditStock.com Topics of Conversation: Why Natalie decided to run a marathon What it was like training for a marathon while working on Empire Running in the morning DOES NOT undo the effects of an unhealthy lifestyle How Natalie got injured training for her first marathon in 2013 When Natalie decided she would no longer be defined by her work Natalie’s morning routine and why she decided she wanted to be, for the first time in her life, a morning person Taking back your schedule and taking ownership of your time How Natalie found reasons to wake up and train every day by clearly defining her why How taking back your time can be empowering How being less reactionary to your surroundings can help you generate energy and be a more pleasant person Natalie’s systems for getting more sh*t done faster! How to combat that “tired” feeling when you don’t think you should be tired How focused work can actually make work more fun! Natalie’s training program ← Link: RunSmart program How tracking your time can really open your eyes to your own productivity The brain is not capable of multitasking! Switching tasks (read: going from Facebook to Gchat to Avid) is what makes you tired! Making small changes can lead to some extraordinary results over a long enough timeline Natalie’s marathon time and how she actually made it through the race Any goal is attainable! Useful Links: FiP Podcast Ep54: Behind the Empire Editorial Workflow FiP Blog Post: The Endless Chase For Work/Life Balance FiP Podcast Ep66: How to Systematize Meal Planning FiP Podcast Ep63: The Solution To Your Sedentary Lifestyle Beachbody T25 Workout DVDs Trello Toggl Yogis Anonymous  BreakTime RescueTime  Guest Bio Natalie Boschan has been working as a post production professional for eight years. She began her career working as a producer/editor creating content for Verizon's V-cast (think: internet content before the iPhone). She continued her career in short form media by working as an editor on web and DVD featurettes, trailers and promotional videos for various major motion picture releases as well as independent films.  In 2013 Natalie decided to shift gears and venture into the land of scripted television. Currently, she is working on a new Netflix drama set to air in late December. Her past credits include: Empire seasons 1 & 2, Underground, Burn Notice and Once Upon a Time. Show Credits: This episode was edited by Curtis Fritsch, the show notes were prepared by Natalie Boschan, and this show is executive produced by Kanen Flowers. We are a member of the THAT STUDIO podcast network. The music in the opening and closing of the show is courtesy of Dorian Cheah from his brilliant album ARA.  

Will and Giulia talk to Gillian Pensavalle & Michael Paul Smith about collaborating, Gchat flirting and more! @GillianWithaG @MPSmithNYC.

Joe Veix is back! We talk giant, square tube TVs, human suffering, the Publik Facebook™ and of course, Truck Nutz. Candlebox as reviewed by an angry fan. Joe tells us Creed was sued for sucking. Joe says we’re doing voicemail wrong and we think he’s right. Misconnected: A Personal History of Voicemail. Our guest thinks It’s interesting how gChat (Hangouts), Instant Messenger & Facebook Messenger are similar forms of communication but we use and behave on them differently. Badwords the project created by Joe that replaced your cookies with those of bizarre characters. A great way to protect your privacy. The weirdness that is geriatric manikins? The logic of Truck Nutz? Chris dares you to put CarLashes on any trucks you find with nuts. What the heck is Tony the Tiger up to now? Mr. Daisey and the Apple Factory. Molleindustria makes activist type games to educate folks about our diabolical world. Check out Phone Story to learn where your phone comes from. Joe’s Publik Facebook™ project. Paul & Joe discuss the issues of online abuse and Twitter. Joe gives some great advice for creators/writers near the end of the show. “Do your thing. Don’t chase an audience or fame.” Joe mentions that many punk musicians never believed they were part of a revolution or movement. They were just making music they liked. Need a space to talk all things horses? Dig Horsechat, yo! Thanks for listening to the episode! Check out joeveix.com or his twitter account, @joeveix to learn more about our guest. Please peek at our Patreon page and support the podcast for like $1! Support Montreal Sauce on Patreon

Note: Want to see the list of newsletters we like that Manoush mentions in this week's podcast? Find it in the Note to Self newsletter here. Spending just one day offline can make you feel like you missed 100 important stories. As you're trying to stay abreast of the 100 even newer, as-important stories/memes/investigations/cute animal videos... well, it starts to feel like this: Or, you know, this: Luckily, there's someone who devotes hours every day to helping us with that quandary. Caitlin Dewey is the Digital Culture Critic at the Washington Post. In addition to her regular column she also sends out a daily newsletter called "Links I would GChat you if we were friends." It's exactly what it sounds like: a couple dozen hand-picked links of the day's top online stories, curated by someone whose job it is to have her finger on the pulse of the Internet world at all times.  In this week's episode, Manoush sits down with Caitlin to talk about the top five digital culture stories from the past year, so that you can end 2015 feeling up to date without having to sift through thousands of old links.  5. The Zola Story A 150-tweet story by Aziah "Zola" Wells trended for two straight days on Twitter (longer than the Paris attacks). If you missed it (or gave up on it), you weren't alone. It was long and twisted – an account of a wild weekend in Florida involving sex work, suicide attempts, and murder. Then, in the following months, both Caitlin and a reporter at Rolling Stone produced reported pieces looking into which aspects of the story were true, why people responded the way they did, and why it all matters. You can check out the original tweets – which have since been deleted – here.  4. The Dress Back in February, it seemed for a moment like a civil war might break out between pretty much everyone on the Internet. In question "The Dress" as blue and black and those who saw it as white and gold. BuzzFeed writer Cate Holderness discovered the meme on Tumblr, and her initial post was so wildly popular that BuzzFeed put two editorial teams on The Dress beat, producing dozens of stories on the topic and garnering tens of millions of page views. (For the record, it was actually blue and black. Supposedly.) Just in case you'd found a really comfortable rock to hide under. (BuzzFeed) 3. This Novel-length Article About Code We know, we know. You heard about Paul Ford's 38,000-word magnum opus on code from this June and you totally had every intention of reading it... except that finding time for a book-length essay on a tricky topic isn't always easy. It's OK – this one is an evergreen. Consider this another opportunity to dig deep into a serious demystification of coding and the tech world that we all interact with every day, but don't always know all that much about. On a plane home for the holidays six months later. 2. The Reddit Revolt Known as the "front page of the internet," Reddit has long been an incredible source of information and evolving news stories – but it's also unfortunately been a place where harassment campaigns take root. That started to change this summer, when Reddit started cracking down on hate speech and harassment. Things really came to a head when the site fired Victoria Taylor, who ran the AMA ("Ask Me Anything") section. Following her termination, Reddit's moderators – unpaid individuals who help run the site's various communities – organized a strike against the site for an entire week. The controversy and its fallout has fueled an ongoing debate about free speech, as well as the question of who benefits when users on sites like Reddit and Facebook effectively donate their labor.  1. The Ashley Madison Hack Online leaks are nothing new. But the Ashley Madison hack was the first high-profile privacy breach that threatened to destroy the relationships, personal lives, and careers of the 37 million people with accounts – most of whom never actually engaged in an extramarital affair, given that there were barely any women using the site at all. Caitlin describes this #1 tech story of the year as a watershed moment for digital privacy – listen to the podcast to hear why.  Subscribe to Note to Self on iTunes, Stitcher, TuneIn, I Heart Radio, or anywhere else using our RSS feed.

Luke and Devin sit around a table with Jay (from the Mutant X episode), Elle Collins from Into It and James Leask from Comics Alliance to play a spooky game of Marvel Super Heroes starring the Exiles - Silk, The Trapster, Boom Boom and Wendigo - and one of them won't be making it out alive!(Apologies for some of the quality issues with the sound - playing over gChat while recording caused a few issues but overall it works. Also there are swears in this so be aware!)Our cover is by Noél Villay and our theme music is by Vibe Leviathan.Don’t forget to check out the image gallery at multiversalq.com ! (and maybe check out our Patreon?)

We're all living two lives. We've got whatever's going on in the physical world, and then we've got our online personas—our Facebook and Twitter profiles, our Gchat lives, our Reddit accounts, our OKCupid and Tinder profiles. How do you make sense of it all? And how are we supposed to find love when everyone lives in two separate worlds? Comedian Aziz Ansari calls our smartphones the "world's largest singles bar," and he's not wrong. At any moment, we can text whoever we want, check out of reality, or swipe through Tinder. The internet is connecting us to new people, but it's getting harder to make a lasting connection with someone when another option is simply a swipe away.   This week, we talk about how technology has affected our dating lives, talk to Aziz about his new book, Modern Romance, and talk to his coauthor, sociologist Eric Klinenberg, about how to make sense of this new world we've found ourselves in. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

We will have a freestyle and have a good time at the Shisha lounge 2369 n. high street in columbus ohio. Listen enjoy and email, text, or Gchat me your comments. We will have fun and see where it goes hitting things in the news and some concepts to deep to swim in. I will be joined by one of my co-host Kwesi Lamar.

We will have a freestyle and have a good time at the Shisha lounge 2369 n. high street in columbus ohio. Listen enjoy and email, text, or Gchat me your comments. We will have fun and see where it goes hitting things in the news and some concepts to deep to swim in. I will be joined by one of my co-host Kwesi Lamar.

In this episode: HINDSIGHT A voicemail from a listener whose high school crush-turned-sleepin' buddy plays the Celibacy Card (is that even a card?), then gets a girlfriend two weeks later! How is a reasonable human being supposed to interpret that? On a similar-ish note, a listener gets confronted by her ex about the meaning of their relationship... over Gchat... during work hours. Does The Relationship Rehash have a place in modern society? We also get some follow-up on a particularly juicy question from months ago. "Dance Outta My Way (Robyn vs. Kylie Minogue)" (BitCrunch) / CC BY-NC 3.0

On this week show I'm proud to have the fourth interview in my series on the History of Warcraft Podcasting Middlefingerbill of GChat & the Middlefinger Podcast. Its another great interview stretching back all the way to the brings of MMO's to out current times.