Podcast appearances and mentions of Jared Palmer

Scott and Wes sit down with Jared Palmer of GitHub (formerly of Vercel) to unpack all the biggest announcements from GitHub Universe 2025. They dive into the future of developer workflows with agents, how GitHub is rethinking project interfaces, and where there's still room to improve the dev experience. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! GitHub Universe Recap. 00:21 Who is Jared Palmer? 01:19 The developer workflow with agents. 03:33 Opening ongoing tasks in VS Code. 06:08 The benefit of agnostic agents. 07:04 GitHub's biggest opportunities for improvement. 09:38 What's your interface of choice for a new project? Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads

Jared Palmer, SVP at GitHub and VP of CoreAI at Microsoft, joins Latent Space for an in-depth look at the evolution of coding agents and modern developer tools. Recently joining after leading AI initiatives at Vercel, Palmer shares firsthand insights from behind the scenes at GitHub Universe, including the launch of Agent HQ which is a new collaboration hub for coding agents and developers. This episode traces Palmer's journey from building Copilot inspired tools to pioneering the focused Next.js coding agent, v0, and explores how platform constraints fostered rapid experimentation and a breakout success in AI-powered frontend development. Palmer explains the unique advantages of GitHub's massive developer network, the challenges of scaling agent-based workflows, and why integrating seamless AI into developer experiences is now a top priority for both Microsoft and GitHub.

On this episode of I am Salt Lake Podcast, we sat down with Jared Palmer from Utah Doesn't Exist. We got to chat about his many projects, his acting work, and some of the films he has been part of. Jared shared what inspired him to start Utah Doesn't Exist and how the idea has grown over time. He also talked about why he sometimes goes by his alias Opey Taylor on social media and what that name means to him.We also talked about the shows he used to run in Ogden, the music he creates, he shared some ghost stories, and how he got connected with Utah Musicians Radio. Jared opened up about what he loves most about living in Utah and why the local creative community means so much to him. It was a fun and honest conversation that gives listeners a great look at one of Utah's most creative voices.Thank you for listening! New episodes drop every Tuesday.Whether you're planning a move across town or starting your search for the perfect home, I'd love to be your go-to resource. Let's connect and make your next move a smooth one. 801-244-2908

In this episode of Founded & Funded, Madrona Partner Vivek Ramaswami sits down with Jared Palmer — designer, developer, and founder of Turborepo (acquired by Vercel), and former VP of AI at Vercel. Jared walks through his unique path from Goldman Sachs to Vercel, and how he combined finance, design, and engineering to create beloved developer tools like Formik, TSDX, and Turborepo, and v0. The two dive deep into: Why vertical integration is the future of AI-native dev platforms The founding and launch of Vercel's v0.dev How Vercel is positioning for a world with 700M code-generators, not just 28M developers What makes teams and products move fast Why “text-to-app” will soon become “text-to-business” Whether you're a founder building dev tools, a product leader thinking about AI-native apps, or a developer curious about the future of your craft — this episode is packed with lessons and foresight. Subscribe and listen now! Transcript: https://bit.ly/4kQWVig Chapters:  (00:00) Introduction (01:40) Jared Palmer's Early Career in Finance (04:40) Transition to Design and Freelancing (07:12) Building a Career in Open Source (11:46) Creating TurboRepo (13:47) Joining Vercel (15:27) Adjusting to Corporate Life (17:37) The Power of Transparency in Teams (17:50) Building a Thriving Team Environment (19:08) Origins of v0 (19:29) Early Development and Challenges (21:38) Key Innovations and Prototypes (22:58) Launch and Rapid Growth (25:32) Navigating a Competitive Landscape (30:02) Future of AI and Software Development

We are happy to announce that there will be a dedicated MCP track at the 2025 AI Engineer World's Fair, taking place Jun 3rd to 5th in San Francisco, where the MCP core team and major contributors and builders will be meeting. Join us and apply to speak or sponsor!When we first wrote Why MCP Won, we had no idea how quickly it was about to win.In the past 4 weeks, OpenAI and now Google have now announced the MCP support, effectively confirming our prediction that MCP was the presumptive winner of the agent standard wars. MCP has now overtaken OpenAPI, the incumbent option and most direct alternative, in GitHub stars (3 months ahead of conservative trendline):We have explored the state of MCP at AIE (now the first ever >100k views workshop):And since then, we've added a 7th reason why MCP won - this team acts very quickly on feedback, with the 2025-03-26 spec update adding support for stateless/resumable/streamable HTTP transports, and comprehensive authz capabilities based on OAuth 2.1.This bodes very well for the future of the community and project. For protocol and history nerds, we also asked David and Justin to tell the origin story of MCP, which we leave to the reader to enjoy (you can also skim the transcripts, or, the changelogs of a certain favored IDE). It's incredible the impact that individual engineers solving their own problems can have on an entire industry.Full video episodeLike and subscribe on YouTube!Show Links* David* Justin* MCP* Why MCP WonTimestamps* 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome* 00:37 What is MCP?* 02:00 The Origin Story of MCP* 05:18 Development Challenges and Solutions* 08:06 Technical Details and Inspirations* 29:45 MCP vs Open API* 32:48 Building MCP Servers* 40:39 Exploring Model Independence in LLMs* 41:36 Building Richer Systems with MCP* 43:13 Understanding Agents in MCP* 45:45 Nesting and Tool Confusion in MCP* 49:11 Client Control and Tool Invocation* 52:08 Authorization and Trust in MCP Servers* 01:01:34 Future Roadmap and Stateless Servers* 01:10:07 Open Source Governance and Community Involvement* 01:18:12 Wishlist and Closing RemarksTranscriptAlessio [00:00:02]: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Latent Space. This is Alessio, partner and CTO at Decibel, and I'm joined by my co-host Swyx, founder of Small AI.swyx [00:00:10]: Hey, morning. And today we have a remote recording, I guess, with David and Justin from Anthropic over in London. Welcome. Hey, good You guys have created a storm of hype because of MCP, and I'm really glad to have you on. Thanks for making the time. What is MCP? Let's start with a crisp what definition from the horse's mouth, and then we'll go into the origin story. But let's start off right off the bat. What is MCP?Justin/David [00:00:43]: Yeah, sure. So Model Context Protocol, or MCP for short, is basically something we've designed to help AI applications extend themselves or integrate with an ecosystem of plugins, basically. The terminology is a bit different. We use this client-server terminology, and we can talk about why that is and where that came from. But at the end of the day, it really is that. It's like extending and enhancing the functionality of AI application.swyx [00:01:05]: David, would you add anything?Justin/David [00:01:07]: Yeah, I think that's actually a good description. I think there's like a lot of different ways for how people are trying to explain it. But at the core, I think what Justin said is like extending AI applications is really what this is about. And I think the interesting bit here that I want to highlight, it's AI applications and not models themselves that this is focused on. That's a common misconception that we can talk about a bit later. But yeah. Another version that we've used and gotten to like is like MCP is kind of like the USB-C port of AI applications and that it's meant to be this universal connector to a whole ecosystem of things.swyx [00:01:44]: Yeah. Specifically, an interesting feature is, like you said, the client and server. And it's a sort of two-way, right? Like in the same way that said a USB-C is two-way, which could be super interesting. Yeah, let's go into a little bit of the origin story. There's many people who've tried to make statistics. There's many people who've tried to build open source. I think there's an overall, also, my sense is that Anthropic is going hard after developers in the way that other labs are not. And so I'm also curious if there was any external influence or was it just you two guys just in a room somewhere riffing?Justin/David [00:02:18]: It is actually mostly like us two guys in a room riffing. So this is not part of a big strategy. You know, if you roll back time a little bit and go into like July 2024. I was like, started. I started at Anthropic like three months earlier or two months earlier. And I was mostly working on internal developer tooling, which is what I've been doing for like years and years before. And as part of that, I think there was an effort of like, how do I empower more like employees at Anthropic to use, you know, to integrate really deeply with the models we have? Because we've seen these, like, how good it is, how amazing it will become even in the future. And of course, you know, just dogfoot your own model as much as you can. And as part of that. From my development tooling background, I quickly got frustrated by the idea that, you know, on one hand side, I have Cloud Desktop, which is this amazing tool with artifacts, which I really enjoyed. But it was very limited to exactly that feature set. And it was there was no way to extend it. And on the other hand side, I like work in IDEs, which could greatly like act on like the file system and a bunch of other things. But then they don't have artifacts or something like that. And so what I constantly did was just copy. Things back and forth on between Cloud Desktop and the IDE, and that quickly got me, honestly, just very frustrated. And part of that frustration wasn't like, how do I go and fix this? What, what do we need? And back to like this development developer, like focus that I have, I really thought about like, well, I know how to build all these integrations, but what do I need to do to let these applications let me do this? And so it's very quickly that you see that this is clearly like an M times N problem. Like you have multiple like applications. And multiple integrations you want to build and like, what that is better there to fix this than using a protocol. And at the same time, I was actually working on an LSP related thing internally that didn't go anywhere. But you put these things together in someone's brain and let them wait for like a few weeks. And out of that comes like the idea of like, let's build some, some protocol. And so back to like this little room, like it was literally just me going to a room with Justin and go like, I think we should build something like this. Uh, this is a good idea. And Justin. Lucky for me, just really took an interest in the idea, um, and, and took it from there to like, to, to build something, together with me, that's really the inception story is like, it's us to, from then on, just going and building it over, over the course of like, like a month and a half of like building the protocol, building the first integration, like Justin did a lot of the, like the heavy lifting of the first integrations in cloud desktop. I did a lot of the first, um, proof of concept of how this can look like in an IDE. And if you, we could talk about like some of. All the tidbits you can find way before the inception of like before the official release, if you were looking at the right repositories at the right time, but there you go. That's like some of the, the rough story.Alessio [00:05:12]: Uh, what was the timeline when, I know November 25th was like the official announcement date. When did you guys start working on it?Justin/David [00:05:19]: Justin, when did we start working on that? I think it, I think it was around July. I think, yeah, I, as soon as David pitched this initial idea, I got excited pretty quickly and we started working on it, I think. I think almost immediately after that conversation and then, I don't know, it was a couple, maybe a few months of, uh, building the really unrewarding bits, if we're being honest, because for, for establishing something that's like this communication protocol has clients and servers and like SDKs everywhere, there's just like a lot of like laying the groundwork that you have to do. So it was a pretty, uh, that was a pretty slow couple of months. But then afterward, once you get some things talking over that wire, it really starts to get exciting and you can start building. All sorts of crazy things. And I think this really came to a head. And I don't remember exactly when it was, maybe like approximately a month before release, there was an internal hackathon where some folks really got excited about MCP and started building all sorts of crazy applications. I think the coolest one of which was like an MCP server that can control a 3d printer or something. And so like, suddenly people are feeling this power of like cloud connecting to the outside world in a really tangible way. And that, that really added some, uh, some juice to us and to the release.Alessio [00:06:32]: Yeah. And we'll go into the technical details, but I just want to wrap up here. You mentioned you could have seen some things coming if you were looking in the right places. We always want to know what are the places to get alpha, how, how, how to find MCP early.Justin/David [00:06:44]: I'm a big Zed user. I liked the Zed editor. The first MCP implementation on an IDE was in Zed. It was written by me and it was there like a month and a half before the official release. Just because we needed to do it in the open because it's an open source project. Um, and so it was, it was not, it was named slightly differently because we. We were not set on the name yet, but it was there.swyx [00:07:05]: I'm happy to go a little bit. Anthropic also had some preview of a model with Zed, right? Some kind of fast editing, uh, model. Um, uh, I, I'm con I confess, you know, I'm a cursor windsurf user. Haven't tried Zed. Uh, what's, what's your, you know, unrelated or, you know, unsolicited two second pitch for, for Zed. That's a good question.Justin/David [00:07:28]: I, it really depends what you value in editors. For me. I, I wouldn't even say I like, I love Zed more than others. I like them all like complimentary in, in a way or another, like I do use windsurf. I do use Zed. Um, but I think my, my main pitch for Zed is low latency, super smooth experience editor with a decent enough AI integration.swyx [00:07:51]: I mean, and maybe, you know, I think that's, that's all it is for a lot of people. Uh, I think a lot of people obviously very tied to the VS code paradigm and the extensions that come along with it. Okay. So I wanted to go back a little bit. You know, on, on, on some of the things that you mentioned, Justin, uh, which was building MCP on paper, you know, obviously we only see the end result. It just seems inspired by LSP. And I, I think both of you have acknowledged that. So how much is there to build? And when you say build, is it a lot of code or a lot of design? Cause I felt like it's a lot of design, right? Like you're picking JSON RPC, like how much did you base off of LSP and, and, you know, what, what, what was the sort of hard, hard parts?Justin/David [00:08:29]: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, uh, we, we definitely did take heavy inspiration from LSP. David had much more prior experience with it than I did working on developer tools. So, you know, I've mostly worked on products or, or sort of infrastructural things. LSP was new to me. But as a, as a, like, or from design principles, it really makes a ton of sense because it does solve this M times N problem that David referred to where, you know, in the world before LSP, you had all these different IDEs and editors, and then all these different languages that each wants to support or that their users want them to support. And then everyone's just building like one. And so, like, you use Vim and you might have really great support for, like, honestly, I don't know, C or something, and then, like, you switch over to JetBrains and you have the Java support, but then, like, you don't get to use the great JetBrains Java support in Vim and you don't get to use the great C support in JetBrains or something like that. So LSP largely, I think, solved this problem by creating this common language that they could all speak and that, you know, you can have some people focus on really robust language server implementations, and then the IDE developers can really focus on that side. And they both benefit. So that was, like, our key takeaway for MCP is, like, that same principle and that same problem in the space of AI applications and extensions to AI applications. But in terms of, like, concrete particulars, I mean, we did take JSON RPC and we took this idea of bidirectionality, but I think we quickly took it down a different route after that. I guess there is one other principle from LSP that we try to stick to today, which is, like, this focus on how features manifest. More than. The semantics of things, if that makes sense. David refers to it as being presentation focused, where, like, basically thinking and, like, offering different primitives, not because necessarily the semantics of them are very different, but because you want them to show up in the application differently. Like, that was a key sort of insight about how LSP was developed. And that's also something we try to apply to MCP. But like I said, then from there, like, yeah, we spent a lot of time, really a lot of time, and we could go into this more separately, like, thinking about each of the primitives that we want to offer in MCP. And why they should be different, like, why we want to have all these different concepts. That was a significant amount of work. That was the design work, as you allude to. But then also already out of the gate, we had three different languages that we wanted to at least support to some degree. That was TypeScript, Python, and then for the Z integration, it was Rust. So there was some SDK building work in those languages, a mixture of clients and servers to build out to try to create this, like, internal ecosystem that we could start playing with. And then, yeah, I guess just trying to make everything, like, robust over, like, I don't know, this whole, like, concept that we have for local MCP, where you, like, launch subprocesses and stuff and making that robust took some time as well. Yeah, maybe adding to that, I think the LSP inference goes even a little bit further. Like, we did take actually quite a look at criticisms on LSP, like, things that LSP didn't do right and things that people felt they would love to have different and really took that to heart to, like, see, you know, what are some of the things. that we wish, you know, we should do better. We took a, you know, like, a lengthy, like, look at, like, their very unique approach to JSON RPC, I may say, and then we decided that this is not what we do. And so there's, like, these differences, but it's clearly very, very inspired. Because I think when you're trying to build and focus, if you're trying to build something like MCP, you kind of want to pick the areas you want to innovate in, but you kind of want to be boring about the other parts in pattern matching LSP. So the problem allows you to be boring in a lot of the core pieces that you want to be boring in. Like, the choice of JSON RPC is very non-controversial to us because it's just, like, it doesn't matter at all, like, what the action, like, bites on the bar that you're speaking. It makes no difference to us. The innovation is on the primitives you choose and these type of things. And so there's way more focus on that that we wanted to do. So having some prior art is good there, basically.swyx [00:12:26]: It does. I wanted to double click. I mean, there's so many things you can go into. Obviously, I am passionate about protocol design. I wanted to show you guys this. I mean, I think you guys know, but, you know, you already referred to the M times N problem. And I can just share my screen here about anyone working in developer tools has faced this exact issue where you see the God box, basically. Like, the fundamental problem and solution of all infrastructure engineering is you have things going to N things, and then you put the God box and they'll all be better, right? So here is one problem for Uber. One problem for... GraphQL, one problem for Temporal, where I used to work at, and this is from React. And I was just kind of curious, like, you know, did you solve N times N problems at Facebook? Like, it sounds like, David, you did that for a living, right? Like, this is just N times N for a living.Justin/David [00:13:16]: David Pérez- Yeah, yeah. To some degree, for sure. I did. God, what a good example of this, but like, I did a bunch of this kind of work on like source control systems and these type of things. And so there were a bunch of these type of problems. And so you just shove them into something that everyone can read from and everyone can write to, and you build your God box somewhere, and it works. But yeah, it's just in developer tooling, you're absolutely right. In developer tooling, this is everywhere, right?swyx [00:13:47]: And that, you know, it shows up everywhere. And what was interesting is I think everyone who makes the God box then has the same set of problems, which is also you now have like composability off and remotes versus local. So, you know, there's this very common set of problems. So I kind of want to take a meta lesson on how to do the God box, but, you know, we can talk about the sort of development stuff later. I wanted to double click on, again, the presentation that Justin mentioned of like how features manifest and how you said some things are the same, but you just want to reify some concepts so they show up differently. And I had that sense, you know, when I was looking at the MCP docs, I'm like, why do these two things need to be the difference in other? I think a lot of people treat tool calling as the solution to everything, right? And sometimes you can actually sort of view kinds of different kinds of tool calls as different things. And sometimes they're resources. Sometimes they're actually taking actions. Sometimes they're something else that I don't really know yet. But I just want to see, like, what are some things that you sort of mentally group as adjacent concepts and why were they important to you to emphasize?Justin/David [00:14:58]: Yeah, I can chat about this a bit. I think fundamentally we every sort of primitive that we thought through, we thought from the perspective of the application developer first, like if I'm building an application, whether it is an IDE or, you know, call a desktop or some agent interface or whatever the case may be, what are the different things that I would want to receive from like an integration? And I think once you take that lens, it becomes quite clear that that tool calling is necessary, but very insufficient. Like there are many other things you would want to do besides just get tools. And plug them into the model and you want to have some way of differentiating what those different things are. So the kind of core primitives that we started MCP with, we've since added a couple more, but the core ones are really tools, which we've already talked about. It's like adding, adding tools directly to the model or function calling is sometimes called resources, which is basically like bits of data or context that you might want to add to the context. So excuse me, to the, to the model context. And this, this is the first primitive where it's like, we, we. Decided this could be like application controlled, like maybe you want a model to automatically search through and, and find relevant resources and bring them into context. But maybe you also want that to be an explicit UI affordance in the application where the user can like, you know, pick through a dropdown or like a paperclip menu or whatever, and find specific things and tag them in. And then that becomes part of like their message to the LLM. Like those are both use cases for resources. And then the third one is prompts. Which are deliberately meant to be like user initiated or. Like. User substituted. Text or messages. So like the analogy here would be like, if you're an editor, like a slash command or something like that, or like an at, you know, auto completion type thing where it's like, I have this kind of macro effectively that I want to drop in and use. And we have sort of expressed opinions through MCP about the different ways that these things could manifest, but ultimately it is for application developers to decide, okay, you, you get these different concepts expressed differently. Um, and it's very useful as an application developer because you can decide. The appropriate experience for each, and actually this can be a point of differentiation to, like, we were also thinking, you know, from the application developer perspective, they, you know, application developers don't want to be commoditized. They don't want the application to end up the same as every other AI application. So like, what are the unique things that they could do to like create the best user experience even while connecting up to this big open ecosystem of integration? I, yeah. And I think to add to that, the, I think there are two, two aspects to that, that I want to. I want to mention the first one is that interestingly enough, like while nowadays tool calling is obviously like probably like 95% plus of the integrations, and I wish there would be, you know, more clients doing tool resources, doing prompts. The, the very first implementation in that is actually a prompt implementation. It doesn't deal with tools. And, and it, we found this actually quite useful because what it allows you to do is, for example, build an MCP server that takes like a backtrack. So it's, it's not necessarily like a tool that literally just like rawizes from Sentry or any other like online platform that, that tracks your, your crashes. And just lets you pull this into the context window beforehand. And so it's quite nice that way that it's like a user driven interaction that you does the user decide when to pull this in and don't have to wait for the model to do it. And so it's a great way to craft the prompt in a way. And I think similarly, you know, I wish, you know, more MCP servers today would bring prompts as examples of, like how to even use the tools. Yeah. at the same time. The resources bits are quite interesting as well. And I wish we would see more usage there because it's very easy to envision, but yet nobody has really implemented it. A system where like an MCP server exposes, you know, a set of documents that you have, your database, whatever you might want to as a set of resources. And then like a client application would build a full rack index around this, right? This is definitely an application use case we had in mind as to why these are exposed in such a way that they're not model driven, because you might want to have way more resource content than is, you know, realistically usable in a context window. And so I think, you know, I wish applications and I hope applications will do this in the next few months, use these primitives, you know, way better, because I think there's way more rich experiences to be created that way. Yeah, completely agree with that. And I would also add that I would go into it if I haven't.Alessio [00:19:30]: I think that's a great point. And everybody just, you know, has a hammer and wants to do tool calling on everything. I think a lot of people do tool calling to do a database query. They don't use resources for it. What are like the, I guess, maybe like pros and cons or like when people should use a tool versus a resource, especially when it comes to like things that do have an API interface, like for a database, you can do a tool that does a SQL query versus when should you do that or a resource instead with the data? Yeah.Justin/David [00:20:00]: The way we separate these is like tools are always meant to be initiated by the model. It's sort of like at the model's discretion that it will like find the right tool and apply it. So if that's the interaction you want as a server developer, where it's like, okay, this, you know, suddenly I've given the LLM the ability to run a SQL queries, for example, that makes sense as a tool. But resources are more flexible, basically. And I think, to be completely honest, the story here is practically a bit complicated today. Because many clients don't support resources yet. But like, I think in an ideal world where all these concepts are fully realized, and there's like full ecosystem support, you would do resources for things like the schemas of your database tables and stuff like that, as a way to like either allow the user to say like, okay, now, you know, cloud, I want to talk to you about this database table. Here it is. Let's have this conversation. Or maybe the particular AI application that you're using, like, you know, could be something agentic, like cloud code. is able to just like agentically look up resources and find the right schema of the database table you're talking about, like both those interactions are possible. But I think like, anytime you have this sort of like, you want to list a bunch of entities, and then read any of them, that makes sense to model as resources. Resources are also, they're uniquely identified by a URI, always. And so you can also think of them as like, you know, sort of general purpose transformers, even like, if you want to support an interaction where a user just like drops a URI in, and then you like automatically figure out how to interpret that, you could use MCP servers to do that interpretation. One of the interesting side notes here, back to the Z example of resources, is that has like a prompt library that you can do, that people can interact with. And we just exposed a set of default prompts that we want everyone to have as part of that prompt library. Yeah, resources for a while so that like, you boot up Zed and Zed will just populate the prompt library from an MCP server, which was quite a cool interaction. And that was, again, a very specific, like, both sides needed to agree upon the URI format and the underlying data format. And but that was a nice and kind of like neat little application of resources. There's also going back to that perspective of like, as an application developer, what are the things that I would want? Yeah. We also applied this thinking to like, you know, like, we can do this, we can do this, we can do this, we can do this. Like what existing features of applications could conceivably be kind of like factored out into MCP servers if you were to take that approach today. And so like basically any IDE where you have like an attachment menu that I think naturally models as resources. It's just, you know, those implementations already existed.swyx [00:22:49]: Yeah, I think the immediate like, you know, when you introduced it for cloud desktop and I saw the at sign there, I was like, oh, yeah, that's what Cursor has. But this is for everyone else. And, you know, I think like that that is a really good design target because it's something that already exists and people can map on pretty neatly. I was actually featuring this chart from Mahesh's workshop that presumably you guys agreed on. I think this is so useful that it should be on the front page of the docs. Like probably should be. I think that's a good suggestion.Justin/David [00:23:19]: Do you want to do you want to do a PR for this? I love it.swyx [00:23:21]: Yeah, do a PR. I've done a PR for just Mahesh's workshop in general, just because I'm like, you know. I know.SPEAKER_03 [00:23:28]: I approve. Yeah.swyx [00:23:30]: Thank you. Yeah. I mean, like, but, you know, I think for me as a developer relations person, I always insist on having a map for people. Here are all the main things you have to understand. We'll spend the next two hours going through this. So some one image that kind of covers all this, I think is pretty helpful. And I like your emphasis on prompts. I would say that it's interesting that like I think, you know, in the earliest early days of like chat GPT and cloud, people. Often came up with, oh, you can't really follow my screen, can you? In the early days of chat of, of chat, GPT and all that, like a lot, a lot of people started like, you know, GitHub for prompts, like we'll do prop manager libraries and, and like those never really took off. And I think something like this is helpful and important. I would say like, I've also seen prompt file from human loop, I think, as, as other ways to standardize how people share prompts. But yeah, I agree that like, there should be. There should be more innovation here. And I think probably people want some dynamicism, which I think you, you afford, you allow for. And I like that you have multi-step that this was, this is the main thing that got me like, like these guys really get it. You know, I think you, you maybe have a published some research that says like, actually sometimes to get, to get the model working the right way, you have to do multi-step prompting or jailbreaking to, to, to behave the way that you want. And so I think prompts are not just single conversations. They're sometimes chains of conversations. Yeah.Alessio [00:25:05]: Another question that I had when I was looking at some server implementations, the server builders kind of decide what data gets eventually returned, especially for tool calls. For example, the Google maps one, right? If you just look through it, they decide what, you know, attributes kind of get returned and the user can not override that if there's a missing one. That has always been my gripe with like SDKs in general, when people build like API wrapper SDKs. And then they miss one parameter that maybe it's new and then I can not use it. How do you guys think about that? And like, yeah, how much should the user be able to intervene in that versus just letting the server designer do all the work?Justin/David [00:25:41]: I think we probably bear responsibility for the Google maps one, because I think that's one of the reference servers we've released. I mean, in general, for things like for tool results in particular, we've actually made the deliberate decision, at least thus far, for tool results to be not like sort of structured JSON data, not matching a schema, really, but as like a text or images or basically like messages that you would pass into the LLM directly. And so I guess the correlation that is, you really should just return a whole jumble of data and trust the LLM to like sort through it and see. I mean, I think we've clearly done a lot of work. But I think we really need to be able to shift and like, you know, extract the information it cares about, because that's what that's exactly what they excel at. And we really try to think about like, yeah, how to, you know, use LLMs to their full potential and not maybe over specify and then end up with something that doesn't scale as LLMs themselves get better and better. So really, yeah, I suppose what should be happening in this example server, which again, will request welcome. It would be great. It's like if all these result types were literally just passed through from the API that it's calling, and then the API would be able to pass through automatically.Alessio [00:26:50]: Thank you for joining us.Alessio [00:27:19]: It's a hard to sign decisions on where to draw the line.Justin/David [00:27:22]: I'll maybe throw AI under the bus a little bit here and just say that Claude wrote a lot of these example servers. No surprise at all. But I do think, sorry, I do think there's an interesting point in this that I do think people at the moment still to mostly still just apply their normal software engineering API approaches to this. And I think we're still need a little bit more relearning of how to build something for LLMs and trust them, particularly, you know, as they are getting significantly better year to year. Right. And I think, you know, two years ago, maybe that approach would have been very valid. But nowadays, just like just throw data at that thing that is really good at dealing with data is a good approach to this problem. And I think it's just like unlearning like 20, 30, 40 years of software engineering practices that go a little bit into this to some degree. If I could add to that real quickly, just one framing as well for MCP is thinking in terms of like how crazily fast AI is advancing. I mean, it's exciting. It's also scary. Like thinking, us thinking that like the biggest bottleneck to, you know, the next wave of capabilities for models might actually be their ability to like interact with the outside world to like, you know, read data from outside data sources or like take stateful actions. Working at Anthropic, we absolutely care about doing that. Safely and with the right control and alignment measures in place and everything. But also as AI gets better, people will want that. That'll be key to like becoming productive with AI is like being able to connect them up to all those things. So MCP is also sort of like a bet on the future and where this is all going and how important that will be.Alessio [00:29:05]: Yeah. Yeah, I would say any API attribute that says formatted underscore should kind of be gone and we should just get the raw data from all of them. Because why, you know, why are you formatting? For me, the, the model is definitely smart enough to format an address. So I think that should go to the end user.swyx [00:29:23]: Yeah. I have, I think Alessio is about to move on to like server implementation. I wanted to, I think we were talking, we're still talking about sort of MCP design and goals and intentions. And we've, I think we've indirectly identified like some problems that MCP is really trying to address. But I wanted to give you the spot to directly take on MCP versus open API, because I think obviously there's a, this is a top question. I wanted to sort of recap everything we just talked about and give people a nice little segment that, that people can say, say, like, this is a definitive answer on MCP versus open API.Justin/David [00:29:56]: Yeah, I think fundamentally, I mean, open API specifications are a very great tool. And like I've used them a lot in developing APIs and consumers of APIs. I think fundamentally, or we think that they're just like too granular for what you want to do with LLMs. Like they don't express higher level AI specific concepts like this whole mental model. Yeah. But we've talked about with the primitives of MCP and thinking from the perspective of the application developer, like you don't get any of that when you encode this information into an open API specification. So we believe that models will benefit more from like the purpose built or purpose design tools, resources, prompts, and the other primitives than just kind of like, here's our REST API, go wild. I do think there, there's another aspect. I think that I'm not an open API expert, so I might, everything might not be perfectly accurate. But I do think that we're... Like there's been, and we can talk about this a bit more later. There's a deliberate design decision to make the protocol somewhat stateful because we do really believe that AI applications and AI like interactions will become inherently more stateful and that we're the current state of like, like need for statelessness is more a temporary point in time that will, you know, to some degree that will always exist. But I think like more statefulness will become increasingly more popular, particularly when you think about additional modalities that go beyond just pure text-based, you know, interactions with models, like it might be like video, audio, whatever other modalities exist and out there already. And so I do think that like having something a bit more stateful is just inherently useful in this interaction pattern. I do think they're actually more complimentary open API and MCP than if people wanted to make it out. Like people look. For these, like, you know, A versus B and like, you know, have, have all the, all the developers of these things go in a room and fist fight it out. But that's rarely what's going on. I think it's actually, they're very complimentary and they have their little space where they're very, very strong. And I think, you know, just use the best tool for the job. And if you want to have a rich interaction between an AI application, it's probably like, it's probably MCP. That's the right choice. And if, if you want to have like an API spec somewhere that is very easy and like a model can read. And to interpret, and that's what, what worked for you, then open API is the way to go. One more thing to add here is that we've already seen people, I mean, this happened very early. People in the community built like bridges between the two as well. So like, if what you have is an open API specification and no one's, you know, building a custom MCP server for it, there are already like translators that will take that and re-expose it as MCP. And you could do the other direction too. Awesome.Alessio [00:32:43]: Yeah. I think there's the other side of MCPs that people don't talk as much. Okay. I think there's the other side of MCPs that people don't talk as much about because it doesn't go viral, which is building the servers. So I think everybody does the tweets about like connect the cloud desktop to XMCP. It's amazing. How would you guys suggest people start with building servers? I think the spec is like, so there's so many things you can do that. It's almost like, how do you draw the line between being very descriptive as a server developer versus like going back to our discussion before, like just take the data and then let them auto manipulate it later. Do you have any suggestions for people?Justin/David [00:33:16]: I. I think there, I have a few suggestions. I think that one of the best things I think about MCP and something that we got right very early is that it's just very, very easy to build like something very simple that might not be amazing, but it's pretty, it's good enough because models are very good and get this going within like half an hour, you know? And so I think that the best part is just like pick the language of, you know, of your choice that you love the most, pick the SDK for it, if there's an SDK for it, and then just go build a tool of the thing that matters to you personally. And that you want to use. You want to see the model like interact with, build the server, throw the tool in, don't even worry too much about the description just yet, like do a bit of like, write your little description as you think about it and just give it to the model and just throw it to standard IO protocol transport wise into like an application that you like and see it do things. And I think that's part of the magic that, or like, you know, empowerment and magic for developers to get so quickly to something that the model does. Or something that you care about. That I think really gets you going and gets you into this flow of like, okay, I see this thing can do cool things. Now I go and, and can expand on this and now I can go and like really think about like, which are the different tools I want, which are the different raw resources and prompts I want. Okay. Now that I have that. Okay. Now do I, what do my evals look like for how I want this to go? How do I optimize my prompts for the evals using like tools like that? This is infinite depth so that you can do. But. Okay. Just start. As simple as possible and just go build a server in like half an hour in the language of your choice and how the model interacts with the things that matter to you. And I think that's where the fun is at. And I think people, I think a lot of what MCP makes great is it just adds a lot of fun to the development piece to just go and have models do things quickly. I also, I'm quite partial, again, to using AI to help me do the coding. Like, I think even during the initial development process, we realized it was quite easy to basically just take all the SDK code. Again, you know, what David suggested, like, you know, pick the language you care about, and then pick the SDK. And once you have that, you can literally just drop the whole SDK code into an LLM's context window and say, okay, now that you know MCP, build me a server that does that. This, this, this. And like, the results, I think, are astounding. Like, I mean, it might not be perfect around every single corner or whatever. And you can refine it over time. But like, it's a great way to kind of like one shot something that basically does what you want, and then you can iterate from there. And like David said, there has been a big emphasis from the beginning on like making servers as easy and simple to build as possible, which certainly helps with LLMs doing it too. We often find that like, getting started is like, you know, 100, 200 lines of code in the last couple of years. It's really quite easy. Yeah. And if you don't have an SDK, again, give the like, give the subset of the spec that you care about to the model, and like another SDK and just have it build you an SDK. And it usually works for like, that subset. Building a full SDK is a different story. But like, to get a model to tool call in Haskell or whatever, like language you like, it's probably pretty straightforward.swyx [00:36:32]: Yeah. Sorry.Alessio [00:36:34]: No, I was gonna say, I co-hosted a hackathon at the AGI house. I'm a personal agent, and one of the personal agents somebody built was like an MCP server builder agent, where they will basically put the URL of the API spec, and it will build an MCP server for them. Do you see that today as kind of like, yeah, most servers are just kind of like a layer on top of an existing API without too much opinion? And how, yeah, do you think that's kind of like how it's going to be going forward? Just like AI generated, exposed to API that already exists? Or are we going to see kind of like net new MCP experiences that you... You couldn't do before?Justin/David [00:37:10]: I think, go for it. I think both, like, I, I think there, there will always be value in like, oh, I have, you know, I have my data over here, and I want to use some connector to bring it into my application over here. That use case will certainly remain. I think, you know, this, this kind of goes back to like, I think a lot of things today are maybe defaulting to tool use when some of the other primitives would be maybe more appropriate over time. And so it could still be that connector. It could still just be that sort of adapter layer, but could like actually adapt it onto different primitives, which is one, one way to add more value. But then I also think there's plenty of opportunity for use cases, which like do, you know, or for MCP servers that kind of do interesting things in and out themselves and aren't just adapters. Some of the earliest examples of this were like, you know, the memory MCP server, which gives the LLM the ability to remember things across conversations or like someone who's a close coworker built the... I shouldn't have said that, not a close coworker. Someone. Yeah. Built the sequential thinking MCP server, which gives a model the ability to like really think step-by-step and get better at its reasoning capabilities. This is something where it's like, it really isn't integrating with anything external. It's just providing this sort of like way of thinking for a model.Justin/David [00:38:27]: I guess either way though, I think AI authorship of the servers is totally possible. Like I've had a lot of success in prompting, just being like, Hey, I want to build an MCP server that like does this thing. And even if this thing is not. Adapting some other API, but it's doing something completely original. It's usually able to figure that out too. Yeah. I do. I do think that the, to add to that, I do think that a good part of, of what MCP servers will be, will be these like just API wrapper to some degree. Um, and that's good to be valid because that works and it gets you very, very far. But I think we're just very early, like in, in exploring what you can do. Um, and I think as client support for like certain primitives get better, like we can talk about sampling. I'm playing with my favorite topic and greatest frustration at the same time. Um, I think you can just see it very easily see like way, way, way richer experiences and we have, we have built them internally for as prototyping aspects. And I think you see some of that in the community already, but there's just, you know, things like, Hey, summarize my, you know, my, my, my, my favorite subreddits for the morning MCP server that nobody has built yet, but it's very easy to envision. And the protocol can totally do this. And these are like slightly richer experiences. And I think as people like go away from like the, oh, I just want to like, I'm just in this new world where I can hook up the things that matter to me, to the LLM, to like actually want a real workflow, a real, like, like more richer experience that I, I really want exposed to the model. I think then you will see these things pop up, but again, that's a, there's a little bit of a chicken and egg problem at the moment with like what a client supported versus, you know, what servers like authors want to do. Yeah.Alessio [00:40:10]: That, that, that was. That's kind of my next question on composability. Like how, how do you guys see that? Do you have plans for that? What's kind of like the import of MCPs, so to speak, into another MCP? Like if I want to build like the subreddit one, there's probably going to be like the Reddit API, uh, MCP, and then the summarization MCP. And then how do I, how do I do a super MCP?Justin/David [00:40:33]: Yeah. So, so this is an interesting topic and I think there, um, so there, there are two aspects to it. I think that the one aspect is like, how can I build something? I think agentically that you requires an LLM call and like a one form of fashion, like for summarization or so, but I'm staying model independent and for that, that's where like part of this by directionality comes in, in this more rich experience where we do have this facility for servers to ask the client again, who owns the LLM interaction, right? Like we talk about cursor, who like runs the, the, the loop with the LLM for you there that for the server author to ask the client for a completion. Um, and basically have it like summarize something for the server and return it back. And so now what model summarizes this depends on which one you have selected in cursor and not depends on what the author brings. The author doesn't bring an SDK. It doesn't have, you had an API key. It's completely model independent, how you can build this. There's just one aspect to that. The second aspect to building richer, richer systems with MCP is that you can easily envision an MCP server that serves something to like something like cursor or win server. For a cloud desktop, but at the same time, also is an MCP client at the same time and itself can use MCP servers to create a rich experience. And now you have a recursive property, which we actually quite carefully in the design principles, try to retain. You, you know, you see it all over the place and authorization and other aspects, um, to the spec that we retain this like recursive pattern. And now you can think about like, okay, I have, I have this little bundle of applications, both a server and a client. And I can add. Add these in chains and build basically graphs like, uh, DAGs out of MCP servers, um, uh, that can just richly interact with each other. A agentic MCP server can also use the whole ecosystem of MCP servers available to themselves. And I think that's a really cool environment, cool thing you can do. And people have experimented with this. And I think you see hopefully more of this, particularly when you think about like auto-selecting, auto-installing, there's a bunch of these things you can do that make, uh, make a really fun experience. I, I think practically there are some niceties we still need to add to the SDKs to make this really simple and like easy to execute on like this kind of recursive MCP server that is also a client or like kind of multiplexing together the behaviors of multiple MCP servers into one host, as we call it. These are things we definitely want to add. We haven't been able to yet, but like, uh, I think that would go some way to showcasing these things that we know are already possible, but not necessarily taken up that much yet. Okay.swyx [00:43:08]: This is, uh, very exciting. And very, I'm sure, I'm sure a lot of people get very, very, uh, a lot of ideas and inspiration from this. Is an MCP server that is also a client, is that an agent?Justin/David [00:43:19]: What's an agent? There's a lot of definitions of agents.swyx [00:43:22]: Because like you're, in some ways you're, you're requesting something and it's going off and doing stuff that you don't necessarily know. There's like a layer of abstraction between you and the ultimate raw source of the data. You could dispute that. Yeah. I just, I don't know if you have a hot take on agents.Justin/David [00:43:35]: I do think, I do think that you can build an agent that way. For me, I think you need to define the difference between. An MCP server plus client that is just a proxy versus an agent. I think there's a difference. And I think that difference might be in, um, you know, for example, using a sample loop to create a more richer experience to, uh, to, to have a model call tools while like inside that MCP server through these clients. I think then you have a, an actual like agent. Yeah. I do think it's very simple to build agents that way. Yeah. I think there are maybe a few paths here. Like it definitely feels like there's some relationship. Between MCP and agents. One possible version is like, maybe MCP is a great way to represent agents. Maybe there are some like, you know, features or specific things that are missing that would make the ergonomics of it better. And we should make that part of MCP. That's one possibility. Another is like, maybe MCP makes sense as kind of like a foundational communication layer for agents to like compose with other agents or something like that. Or there could be other possibilities entirely. Maybe MCP should specialize and narrowly focus on kind of the AI application side. And not as much on the agent side. I think it's a very live question and I think there are sort of trade-offs in every direction going back to the analogy of the God box. I think one thing that we have to be very careful about in designing a protocol and kind of curating or shepherding an ecosystem is like trying to do too much. I think it's, it's a very big, yeah, you know, you don't want a protocol that tries to do absolutely everything under the sun because then it'll be bad at everything too. And so I think the key question, which is still unresolved is like, to what degree are agents. Really? Really naturally fitting in to this existing model and paradigm or to what degree is it basically just like orthogonal? It should be something.swyx [00:45:17]: I think once you enable two way and once you enable client server to be the same and delegation of work to another MCP server, it's definitely more agentic than not. But I appreciate that you keep in mind simplicity and not trying to solve every problem under the sun. Cool. I'm happy to move on there. I mean, I'm going to double click on a couple of things that I marked out because they coincide with things that we wanted to ask you. Anyway, so the first one is, it's just a simple, how many MCP things can one implementation support, you know, so this is the, the, the sort of wide versus deep question. And, and this, this is direct relevance to the nesting of MCPs that we just talked about in April, 2024, when, when Claude was launching one of its first contexts, the first million token context example, they said you can support 250 tools. And in a lot of cases, you can't do that. You know, so to me, that's wide in, in the sense that you, you don't have tools that call tools. You just have the model and a flat hierarchy of tools, but then obviously you have tool confusion. It's going to happen when the tools are adjacent, you call the wrong tool. You're going to get the bad results, right? Do you have a recommendation of like a maximum number of MCP servers that are enabled at any given time?Justin/David [00:46:32]: I think be honest, like, I think there's not one answer to this because to some extent, it depends on the model that you're using. To some extent, it depends on like how well the tools are named and described for the model and stuff like that to avoid confusion. I mean, I think that the dream is certainly like you just furnish all this information to the LLM and it can make sense of everything. This, this kind of goes back to like the, the future we envision with MCP is like all this information is just brought to the model and it decides what to do with it. But today the reality or the practicalities might mean that like, yeah, maybe you, maybe in your client application, like the AI application, you do some fill in the blanks. Maybe you do some filtering over the tool set or like maybe you, you run like a faster, smaller LLM to like filter to what's most relevant and then only pass those tools to the bigger model. Or you could use an MCP server, which is a proxy to other MCP servers and does some filtering at that level or something like that. I think hundreds, as you referenced, is still a fairly safe bet, at least for Claude. I can't speak to the other models, but yeah, I don't know. I think over time we should just expect this to get better. So we're wary of like constraining anything and preventing that. Sort of long. Yeah, and obviously it highly, it highly depends on the overlap of the description, right? Like if you, if you have like very separate servers that do very separate things and the tools have very clear unique names, very clear, well-written descriptions, you know, your mileage might be more higher than if you have a GitLab and a GitHub server at the same time in your context. And, and then the overlap is quite significant because they look very similar to the model and confusion becomes easier. There's different considerations too. Depending on the AI application, if you're, if you're trying to build something very agentic, maybe you are trying to minimize the amount of times you need to go back to the user with a question or, you know, minimize the amount of like configurability in your interface or something. But if you're building other applications, you're building an IDE or you're building a chat application or whatever, like, I think it's totally reasonable to have affordances that allow the user to say like, at this moment, I want this feature set or at this different moment, I want this different feature set or something like that. And maybe not treat it as like always on. The full list always on all the time. Yeah.swyx [00:48:42]: That's where I think the concepts of resources and tools get to blend a little bit, right? Because now you're saying you want some degree of user control, right? Or application control. And other times you want the model to control it, right? So now we're choosing just subsets of tools. I don't know.Justin/David [00:49:00]: Yeah, I think it's a fair point or a fair concern. I guess the way I think about this is still like at the end of the day, and this is a core MCP design principle is like, ultimately, the concept of a tool is not a tool. It's a client application, and by extension, the user. Ultimately, they should be in full control of absolutely everything that's happening via MCP. When we say that tools are model controlled, what we really mean is like, tools should only be invoked by the model. Like there really shouldn't be an application interaction or a user interaction where it's like, okay, as a user, I now want you to use this tool. I mean, occasionally you might do that for prompting reasons, but like, I think that shouldn't be like a UI affordance. But I think the client application or the user deciding to like filter out the user, it's not a tool. I think the client application or the user deciding to like filter out things that MCP servers are offering, totally reasonable, or even like transform them. Like you could imagine a client application that takes tool descriptions from an MCP server and like enriches them, makes them better. We really want the client applications to have full control in the MCP paradigm. That in addition, though, like I think there, one thing that's very, very early in my thinking is there might be a addition to the protocol where you want to give the server author the ability to like logically group certain primitives together, potentially. Yeah. To inform that, because they might know some of these logical groupings better, and that could like encompasses prompts, resources, and tools at the same time. I mean, personally, we can have a design discussion on there. I mean, personally, my take would be that those should be separate MCP servers, and then the user should be able to compose them together. But we can figure it out.Alessio [00:50:31]: Is there going to be like a MCP standard library, so to speak, of like, hey, these are like the canonical servers, do not build this. We're just going to take care of those. And those can be maybe the building blocks that people can compose. Or do you expect people to just rebuild their own MCP servers for like a lot of things?Justin/David [00:50:49]: I think we will not be prescriptive in that sense. I think there will be inherently, you know, there's a lot of power. Well, let me rephrase it. Like, I have a long history in open source, and I feel the bizarre approach to this problem is somewhat useful, right? And I think so that the best and most interesting option wins. And I don't think we want to be very prescriptive. I will definitely foresee, and this already exists, that there will be like 25 GitHub servers and like 25, you know, Postgres servers and whatnot. And that's all cool. And that's good. And I think they all add in their own way. But effectively, eventually, over months or years, the ecosystem will converge to like a set of very widely used ones who basically, I don't know if you call it winning, but like that will be the most used ones. And I think that's completely fine. Because being prescriptive about this, I don't think it's any useful, any use. I do think, of course, that there will be like MCP servers, and you see them already that are driven by companies for their products. And, you know, they will inherently be probably the canonical implementation. Like if you want to work with Cloudflow workers and use an MCP server for that, you'll probably want to use the one developed by Cloudflare. Yeah. I think there's maybe a related thing here, too, just about like one big thing worth thinking about. We don't have any like solutions completely ready to go. It's this question of like trust or like, you know, vetting is maybe a better word. Like, how do you determine which MCP servers are like the kind of good and safe ones to use? Regardless of if there are any implementations of GitHub MCP servers, that could be totally fine. But you want to make sure that you're not using ones that are really like sus, right? And so trying to think about like how to kind of endow reputation or like, you know, if hypothetically. Anthropic is like, we've vetted this. It meets our criteria for secure coding or something. How can that be reflected in kind of this open model where everyone in the ecosystem can benefit? Don't really know the answer yet, but that's very much top of mind.Alessio [00:52:49]: But I think that's like a great design choice of MCPs, which is like language agnostic. Like already, and there's not, to my knowledge, an Anthropic official Ruby SDK, nor an OpenAI SDK. And Alex Roudal does a great job building those. But now with MCPs is like. You don't actually have to translate an SDK to all these languages. You just do one, one interface and kind of bless that interface as, as Anthropic. So yeah, that was, that was nice.swyx [00:53:18]: I have a quick answer to this thing. So like, obviously there's like five or six different registries already popped up. You guys announced your official registry that's gone away. And a registry is very tempting to offer download counts, likes, reviews, and some kind of trust thing. I think it's kind of brittle. Like no matter what kind of social proof or other thing you can, you can offer, the next update can compromise a trusted package. And actually that's the one that does the most damage, right? So abusing the trust system is like setting up a trust system creates the damage from the trust system. And so I actually want to encourage people to try out MCP Inspector because all you got to do is actually just look at the traffic. And like, I think that's, that goes for a lot of security issues.Justin/David [00:54:03]: Yeah, absolutely. Cool. And then I think like that's very classic, just supply chain problem that like all registries effectively have. And the, you know, there are different approaches to this problem. Like you can take the Apple approach and like vet things and like have like an army of, of both automated system and review teams to do this. And then you effectively build an app store, right? That's, that's one approach to this type of problem. It kind of works in, you know, in a very set, certain set of ways. But I don't think it works in an open source kind of ecosystem for which you always have a registry kind of approach, like similar to MPM and packages and PiPi.swyx [00:54:36]: And they all have inherently these, like these, these supply chain attack problems, right? Yeah, yeah, totally. Quick time check. I think we're going to go for another like 20, 25 minutes. Is that okay for you guys? Okay, awesome. Cool. I wanted to double click, take the time. So I'm going to sort of, we previewed a little bit on like the future coming stuff. So I want to leave the future coming stuff to the end, like registry, the, the, the stateless servers and remote servers, all the other stuff. But I wanted to double click a little bit. A little bit more on the launch, the core servers that are part of the official repo. And some of them are special ones, like the, like the ones we already talked about. So let me just pull them up already. So for example, you mentioned memory, you mentioned sequential thinking. And I think I really, really encourage people should look at these, what I call special servers. Like they're, they're not normal servers in the, in the sense that they, they wrap some API and it's just easier to interact with those than to work at the APIs. And so I'll, I'll highlight the, the memory one first, just because like, I think there are, there are a few memory startups, but actually you don't need them if you just use this one. It's also like 200 lines of code. It's super simple. And, and obviously then if you need to scale it up, you should probably do some, some more battle tested thing. But if you're interested, if you're just introducing memory, I think this is a really good implementation. I don't know if there's like special stories that you want to highlight with, with some of these.Justin/David [00:56:00]: I think, no, I don't, I don't think there's special stories. I think a lot of these, not all of them, but a lot of them originated from that hackathon that I mentioned before, where folks got excited about the idea of MCP. People internally inside Anthropik who wanted to have memory or like wanted to play around with the idea could quickly now prototype something using MCP in a way that wasn't possible before. Someone who's not like, you know, you don't have to become the, the end to end expert. You don't have access. You don't have to have access to this. Like, you know. You don't have to have this private, you know, proprietary code base. You can just now extend cloud with this memory capability. So that's how a lot of these came about. And then also just thinking about like, you know, what is the breadth of functionality that we want to demonstrate at launch?swyx [00:56:47]: Totally. And I think that is partially why it made your launch successful because you launch with a sufficiently spanning set of here's examples and then people just copy paste and expand from there. I would also highligh

How many times have we acted on impulse instead of letting thoughts "simmer" so we could use reasoning, patience, or logic. What has that type of behavior cost us in the long run? Join us as we discuss this type of behavior that we "ALL" are guilty of.Join my guests and ITSMF Power54 Leadership Academy Family (Carla Forte, Ethan Bingham and Jared Palmer) any myself (Bazz) as we discuss how letting thoughts simmer always taste better for the human spirit.By the way you can learn more about ITSMF here.Men Speaking Out...Talking to reveal, not conceal! menspeakingout.com

In this episode, we talk to the creator of Turborepo and Vercel Team Lead, Jared Palmer, about why he created Turborepo, the current state of monorepos, how to move from Lerna, and more! Links https://twitter.com/jaredpalmer https://twitter.com/turborepo https://twitter.com/vercel https://turborepo.org https://vercel.com Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://bit.ly/3wOynRm), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Jared Palmer.

In this supper club episode of Syntax, Wes and Scott talk with Jared Palmer about Turbo Repo, how it fits in your tech stack, and what it was like being acquired by Vercel. Whiskey Web and Whatnot - Sponsor Whiskey Web and Whatnot is different than your typical dev podcast. We show a lighter, more human side of developers you know and love, like a fireside chat with your favorite devs. Past guests include Tom Preston-Werner, Kent C. Dodds, Charlie Gerard, and of course Wes Bos! We have discussed everything from Next.js and TypeScript to Chuck's past life as a blackjack dealer, Cincinnati Chili, the best casseroles, and of course whiskey! Show Notes 00:35 Welcome Jared Palmer 02:15 What is Turbo Repo? Turbo Repo Vercel tsdx 03:27 Where does Turbo Repo fit in your stack? 06:04 What are Google, Meta, or Twitter doing? 15:35 Sponsor: Whiskey, Web and Whatnot 16:45 What's the cost of adding Turbo Repo to a project? 21:19 Changing based on environmental variables 23:18 Does this replace how you define your workplace? 24:08 How do you share the cache? 25:25 What don't you cache? 27:35 What about Gatsby images? 28:44 Can Turbo Repo help with re-running compiles? 36:54 Supper Rapid Fire Questions Oceanic Next GitHub Dark Kotlin 52:47 Selling Turbo Repo to Vercel 55:49 Shameless Plugs Shameless Plugs Scott: LevelUp Tutorials Wes: Wes Bos Tutorials Tweet us your tasty treats Scott's Instagram LevelUpTutorials Instagram Wes' Instagram Wes' Twitter Wes' Facebook Scott's Twitter Make sure to include @SyntaxFM in your tweets

In our final episode before 2021 Nationals, we talk with Drew Broderick, Jared Palmer, Johan DuRandt and Stephen Mitchell. We are looking forward to a great championship weekend of paddle. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/insidethewires/message

Mark Dalgleish, the creator of CSS Modules, joins full stack developers Ken Wheeler and Jared Palmer on The Undefined to talk about to talk design systems vs. component libraries and the future of design tooling.Notes / LinksCSS ModulesPlayroomBraid Design SystemBlueprint.jsMaterial UIAWS Amplify ContainersChangesetsLittle Big SnakeCyberpunk 2077Sponsor: G2iIf you're building a new product, G2i is a company that can help you find a developer who can build the first version. G2i is a hiring platform run by engineers that matches you with React, React Native, GraphQL, and mobile engineers who you can trust. Whether you are a new company building your first product or an established company that wants additional engineering help, G2i has the talent you need to accomplish your goals. Go to g2i.co to learn more about what G2i has to offer.ICYMI: The Undefined ShopWe launched an online store! Checkout https://shop.undefined.fm for the dankest swag and accessories.Follow UsMark Dalgleish - Twitter, GithubKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteThe Undefined Podcast - Twitter, Website, YouTube, Store

Adam Wathan, the creator of Tailwind CSS, joins full stack developers Ken Wheeler and Jared Palmer on The Undefined to talk about his path to becoming a developer, the big problems traditional CSS frameworks, what it's like to bootstrap a company, and the future of Tailwind.FeaturingAdam Wathan - Twitter, Github, WebsiteKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteNotes / LinksTailwind CSS: Utility-focused CSS FrameworkTailwind UI: Pre-built Components and Snippets for Tailwind CSSAlpine.jsLaravel PHP FrameworkSponsor: PrismaAs a frontend developer, if you want to become fullstack, you'll find that the hardest part of backend development is working with a database.Prisma is a next-generation ORM and database toolkit that makes working with databases easy and helps frontend developers become fullstack!Visit the prisma-examples repo for lots of ready-to-run starter projects with various frameworks and libraries, like Express, Apollo, NestJS or hapi. If you're a Next.js developer, be sure to visit prisma.io/nextjs to learn more about how easy it is to integrate Prisma in your Next.js apps!Prisma has a very active and welcoming community on Slack and on GitHub where you can find help for any questions about the Prisma ecosystem.ICYMI: The Undefined ShopWe launched an online store! Checkout https://shop.undefined.fm for the dankest swag and accessories. 20% off all items during our Black Friday / Cyber Monday sale.

Evan You, the creator of Vue.js, and Rich Harris, Graphics Editor at The New York Times and creator of Svelte and Rollup, join hosts Ken Wheeler and Jared Palmer on The Undefined to talk about the future of frontend development.FeaturingEvan You - Twitter, Github, WebsiteRich Harris - Twitter, GithubKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteSponsor: PrismaAs a frontend developer, if you want to become fullstack, you'll find that the hardest part of backend development is working with a database.Prisma is a next-generation ORM and database toolkit that makes working with databases easy and helps frontend developers become fullstack!Visit the prisma-examples repo for lots of ready-to-run starter projects with various frameworks and libraries, like Express, Apollo, NestJS or hapi. If you're a Next.js developer, be sure to visit prisma.io/nextjs to learn more about how easy it is to integrate Prisma in your Next.js apps!Prisma has a very active and welcoming community on Slack and on GitHub where you can find help for any questions about the Prisma ecosystem.Sponsor: G2iIf you're building a new product, G2i is a company that can help you find a developer who can build the first version. G2i is a hiring platform run by engineers that matches you with React, React Native, GraphQL, and mobile engineers who you can trust. Whether you are a new company building your first product or an established company that wants additional engineering help, G2i has the talent you need to accomplish your goals. Go to g2i.co to learn more about what G2i has to offer.ICYMI: The Undefined ShopWe launched an online store! Checkout https://shop.undefined.fm for the dankest swag and accessories. 20% off all items during our Black Friday / Cyber Monday sale.

Not many players can not play paddle all season until a week before Nationals start, then step in an make it to the finals, but our guest on the show did that this year. When you've already won 3 titles and oh yeah, WIMBLEDON, maybe it wasn't that hard for him. We were very excited to have an often requested guest on the show, Jared Palmer. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/insidethewires/message

Jared Palmer has been a guest on 3 different shows on Devchat.tv. He's talked to us about Formik, Razzle, and React. He's taking a break from consulting to build up Formik, Inc and tools for forms. He got started in programming by taking a programming class at Cornell on a lark and quickly transitioned out of Investment Banking after graduating from university. His first apps were custom lock screens for mobile phones. We then move through framer and CoffeeScript and eventually in to JavaScript and React. Host: Charles Max Wood Joined By Special Guest: Jared Palmer Sponsors G2i | Enjoy the luxuries of freelancing CacheFly ______________________________________ "The MaxCoders Guide to Finding Your Dream Developer Job" by Charles Max Wood is now available on Amazon. Get Your Copy Today! ______________________________________ Links RRU 014: Razzle with Jared Palmer RRU 052: React Suspense with Jared Palmer Formik feat. Jared Palmer of The Palmer Group Picks Jared Palmer: Remote UI (Shopify) Charles Max Wood: The Man In the High Castle

Jared Palmer has been a guest on 3 different shows on Devchat.tv. He's talked to us about Formik, Razzle, and React. He's taking a break from consulting to build up Formik, Inc and tools for forms. He got started in programming by taking a programming class at Cornell on a lark and quickly transitioned out of Investment Banking after graduating from university. His first apps were custom lock screens for mobile phones. We then move through framer and CoffeeScript and eventually in to JavaScript and React. Host: Charles Max Wood Joined By Special Guest: Jared Palmer Sponsors G2i | Enjoy the luxuries of freelancing CacheFly ______________________________________ "The MaxCoders Guide to Finding Your Dream Developer Job" by Charles Max Wood is now available on Amazon. Get Your Copy Today! ______________________________________ Links RRU 014: Razzle with Jared Palmer RRU 052: React Suspense with Jared Palmer Formik feat. Jared Palmer of The Palmer Group Picks Jared Palmer: Remote UI (Shopify) Charles Max Wood: The Man In the High Castle

Jared Palmer has been a guest on 3 different shows on Devchat.tv. He's talked to us about Formik, Razzle, and React. He's taking a break from consulting to build up Formik, Inc and tools for forms. He got started in programming by taking a programming class at Cornell on a lark and quickly transitioned out of Investment Banking after graduating from university. His first apps were custom lock screens for mobile phones. We then move through framer and CoffeeScript and eventually in to JavaScript and React. Host: Charles Max Wood Joined By Special Guest: Jared Palmer Sponsors G2i | Enjoy the luxuries of freelancing CacheFly ______________________________________ "The MaxCoders Guide to Finding Your Dream Developer Job" by Charles Max Wood is now available on Amazon. Get Your Copy Today! ______________________________________ Links RRU 014: Razzle with Jared Palmer RRU 052: React Suspense with Jared Palmer Formik feat. Jared Palmer of The Palmer Group Picks Jared Palmer: Remote UI (Shopify) Charles Max Wood: The Man In the High Castle

Jared Palmer talks to Charles Max Wood about Formik and form managmenet in React and React Native. He's just started Formik, Inc to provide more form based services. He explains the origin of Formik and then talks about how Formik uses React hooks to manage the data flow in forms in both React and React Native through 2 way data binding. Panelists Charles Max Wood Gues Jared Palmer Sponsors G2i | Enjoy the luxuries of freelancing Infinite Red CacheFly ____________________________________________________________ "The MaxCoders Guide to Finding Your Dream Developer Job" by Charles Max Wood is now available on Amazon. Get Your Copy Today! ____________________________________________________________ Picks Jared Palmer: MongoDB Charts Charles Max Wood: AfterShokz Bone Conduction Headphones

Jared Palmer talks to Charles Max Wood about Formik and form managmenet in React and React Native. He's just started Formik, Inc to provide more form based services. He explains the origin of Formik and then talks about how Formik uses React hooks to manage the data flow in forms in both React and React Native through 2 way data binding. Panelists Charles Max Wood Gues Jared Palmer Sponsors G2i | Enjoy the luxuries of freelancing Infinite Red CacheFly ____________________________________________________________ "The MaxCoders Guide to Finding Your Dream Developer Job" by Charles Max Wood is now available on Amazon. Get Your Copy Today! ____________________________________________________________ Picks Jared Palmer: MongoDB Charts Charles Max Wood: AfterShokz Bone Conduction Headphones

Full stack developers Ken Wheeler and Jared Palmer talk about the future of the JAMStack, their experiences with serverless functions, debate Next.js vs. Gatsby, and so much more.FeaturingKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, WebsitePicksAlen 75i Air Purifier (get the VOC filter). Also be sure to watch/listen to this talk: Why Air Quality Matters by @DHHNext.js Static Site Generation APIICYMI: The Undefined ShopWe launched an online store! Checkout https://shop.undefined.fm for the dankest swag and accessories.

Iheanyi Ekechukwu is a Software Engineer at GitHub on the Actions team and co-host of the Two Black Nerds podcast. Prior to GitHub, Iheanyi was a Software Engineer at Digital Ocean. He joins hosts Ken Wheeler and Jared Palmer on The Undefined to talk about his path to becoming a full stack developer, what it's like to work at GitHub, and how he ships awesome side projects.FeaturingIheanyi Ekechukwu - Twitter, Github, WebsiteKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteSponsor: TrackJSJavaScript breaks sometimes. Even the code you write. You need to know when things start crashing in production.TrackJS Error Monitoring for JavaScript quickly integrates with your front-end or node application, regardless of framework, so you know when a bug gets out. TrackJS installs in minutes, and you get context about what the user, network, and application were doing before an error. It's like having an airplane's blackbox in your UI, so you can find, recreate, and fix problems fast.TrackJS is an engineer-owned cloud service that will make your JavaScript better and your website more reliable. Try it free at https://undefined.fm/trackjs.ICYMI: The Undefined ShopWe launched an online store! Checkout https://shop.undefined.fm for the dankest swag and accessories.

Joel Hooks is the Co-Founder of egghead.io, an online community of badass web developers. Joel joins hosts Ken Wheeler and Jared Palmer on the Undefined to talk about what it takes to build a personal brand and level-up as a developer. The gang chats about their learning techniques, motivation, favorite resources, and what success really means to them.FeaturingJoel Hooks - Twitter, Github, Journal, egghead.ioKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteSponsor: TrackJSJavaScript breaks sometimes. Even the code you write. You need to know when things start crashing in production.TrackJS Error Monitoring for JavaScript quickly integrates with your front-end or node application, regardless of framework, so you know when a bug gets out. TrackJS installs in minutes, and you get context about what the user, network, and application were doing before an error. It's like having an airplane's blackbox in your UI, so you can find, recreate, and fix problems fast.TrackJS is an engineer-owned cloud service that will make your JavaScript better and your website more reliable. Try it free at https://undefined.fm/trackjs.ICYMI: The Undefined ShopWe launched an online store! Checkout https://shop.undefined.fm for the dankest swag and accessories.

Dan Stein is a Principal Software / AI Developer for GLG Group. Prior to that, Dan was an award winning EDM DJ and producer known as "DJ Fresh" with over 2.5 million record sales, two number 1 singles, and two top 6 singles to his name. Dan joins hosts Ken Wheeler and Jared Palmer on the Undefined to tell his story--and how he transitioned from being an actual rockstar to rockstar full stack developer.FeaturingDan Stein - Twitter, Github, WebsiteKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteSponsor - StreamBuild real-time chat in less time. Rapidly ship in-app messaging with our highly reliable chat infrastructure. Drive in-app conversion, engagement, and retention with the Stream Chat API & SDKs.Proven Chat API reliability that is flexible enough to build any chat experience.Add emoji reactions to messages just like Slack, Facebook or iMessage.With threads and replies, you can build structured chat experiences.More info can be found at getstream.io/chat.DISCOUNT: Visit getstream.io/chat AND email support@getstream.io mentioning this podcast to receive 25% off a Standard plan or 10% off an Enteprise plan.ICYMI: The Undefined ShopWe launched an online store! Checkout https://shop.undefined.fm for the dankest swag and accessories.

Evan Bacon is a Software Engineer at Expo.io. Prior to that, Evan was a designer at Frog Design and Master Builder at LEGO. He joins hosts Jared Palmer and Ken Wheeler on the Undefined to talk about React Native, game development, and his unique origin story. The gang also discusses $900k developer salaries, moving to NYC, and White Claw.Evan Bacon - Twitter, GithubKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteG2i - SponsorIf you're building a new product, G2i is a company that can help you find a developer who can build the first version. G2i is a hiring platform run by engineers that matches you with React, React Native, GraphQL, and mobile engineers who you can trust. Whether you are a new company building your first product or an established company that wants additional engineering help, G2i has the talent you need to accomplish your goals. Go to g2i.co to learn more about what G2i has to offer.

Nader Dabit is a Developer Advocate at AWS and Founder of React Native Training. He joins hosts Jared Palmer and Ken Wheeler on The Undefined to talk about React Europe, React hooks, the future of work, consulting, and more.FeaturingNader Dabit - Twitter, Github, Website, ConsultancyKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, Website, AgencyLinksReact EuropeAWS AmplifyReact Native TrainingLe Centre PompidouThe Fondation Louis Vuitton"The Slaves" by MichaelangeloLes PhilosophesSupremeWhere the Heaux at? T-ShirtHTML Canvas Images - W3SchoolsMimic class properties with useEventCallbackuseSubscription hook PRurql GraphQL clientStartup Nation by Dan Senor, Saul SingerCoders are the new Rock Stars - Dan Stein aka @DJFreshUKPicksDrizlyGerhard RichterThe Clermont Lounge

Jackie Luo is a platform engineer at Square. She joins hosts Jared Palmer and Ken Wheeler on The Undefined to talk about work/life balance React vs. Ember, NY vs. SF, CS degrees, and more.FeaturingJackie Luo - Twitter, Github, WebsiteKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteLinksCaviarEmber GlimmerTypeScriptNylas Email ClientSvelteVueSquare MiskDropwizardKotlin Programming Languagekotlin-reactCommon ProjectsTim Cook's Earth Day TweetPicksAllbirds Tree SkippersCrep ProtectSvelteFortnite

Rich Harris is a Graphics Editor at The New York Times and the creator of Svelte and Rollup. He joins hosts Jared Palmer and Ken Wheeler on The Undefined to talk about his gig, the tools he uses to write interactive articles, and about what's new in Svelte v3.0.FeaturingRich Harris - Twitter, GithubKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteLinksPEG.jsd3Svelte 3Ractive"The Follower Factory" by Nicholas Confessore, Gabriel J.X. Dance, Richard Harris and Mark Hansen (Jan 27, 2018)reactjs/react-future@lordkenwheeler

Brent Vatne is a Software Engineer at Expo. He joins hosts Jared Palmer and Ken Wheeler on The Undefined to talk about the future of the web, native development, and more.FeaturingBrent Vatne - Twitter, GithubKen Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, WebsiteJared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, Website

Jani Eväkallio is the VP of Engineering at Formidable Labs and the creator of @Smoosh_Comedy. He joins hosts Jared Palmer and Ken Wheeler on The Undefined to talk about the meaning of life, the universe, and everything...JavaScript. Featuring Jani Eväkallio - Twitter, Github Ken Wheeler – Twitter, GitHub, Website Jared Palmer – Twitter, GitHub, Website Links "It should eat ass instead" Kent C. Dodds fight scene "Mormon Kombat" "Ass is the titties of the legs"

Typescript. What is it? How does it help you write better code? Will it help you sleep better at night? Jared is a lead engineer at The Palmer Group, a strategy, design, and engineering firm. There he uses TypeScript every day to keep code sturdy and maintainable. Chantastic asks Jared what we need to know to get a little TypeScript into our apps. They discuss the joys and pains of Typescript in 2019 and how it compares to languages like Reason, Ocaml, Fable, and Elm.

Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for $100 credit Triplebyte CacheFly Panel Lucas Reis Charles Max Wood Joined by special guest: Jared Palmer Episode Summary  In this episode of React Round Up, Jared Palmer, Lead Engineer at Palmer Group, gives the listeners an overview of React Suspense, how it helps to resolve conflicts with resource scheduling and how it differs from current practices. He mentions that it is developed completely by the React team and talks about some of its applications, especially in handling images. He explains how React Suspense will reduce code size for loading states, the mechanism of parallel execution and how complexity in logic can be simplified with it. Jared also mentions some modules where Suspense can already be integrated with and advises on where it is not recommended to be used yet. The panelists then discuss server-side rendering with Suspense and their approach in technology adoption, which is incremental. Finally they talk about Redux and move on to picks. Links The Platform - Suspense-ready components  Jared’s GitHub Jared’s Twitter Jared’s website The Palmer Group https://www.facebook.com/React-Round-Up-297859274397129/ https://twitter.com/reactroundup Picks Lucas Reis: Sunlight Alarm Clock Charles Max Wood: Gel Pads Notion Jared Palmer: DevHub The Undefined Podcast

Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for $100 credit Triplebyte CacheFly Panel Lucas Reis Charles Max Wood Joined by special guest: Jared Palmer Episode Summary  In this episode of React Round Up, Jared Palmer, Lead Engineer at Palmer Group, gives the listeners an overview of React Suspense, how it helps to resolve conflicts with resource scheduling and how it differs from current practices. He mentions that it is developed completely by the React team and talks about some of its applications, especially in handling images. He explains how React Suspense will reduce code size for loading states, the mechanism of parallel execution and how complexity in logic can be simplified with it. Jared also mentions some modules where Suspense can already be integrated with and advises on where it is not recommended to be used yet. The panelists then discuss server-side rendering with Suspense and their approach in technology adoption, which is incremental. Finally they talk about Redux and move on to picks. Links The Platform - Suspense-ready components  Jared’s GitHub Jared’s Twitter Jared’s website The Palmer Group https://www.facebook.com/React-Round-Up-297859274397129/ https://twitter.com/reactroundup Picks Lucas Reis: Sunlight Alarm Clock Charles Max Wood: Gel Pads Notion Jared Palmer: DevHub The Undefined Podcast

On Episode 76 of The Tennis Files Podcast, I spoke with Brad Stine about how he coached Kevin Anderson, Jim Courier, and many other players to top ATP world rankings. Brad's philosophies, systems, and strategies have enable him to consistently propel whoever he coaches, from high level juniors, college players and tour pros, to top rankings and grand slam titles. It was fascinating to hear Brad's tennis journey and how both he and his players have risen to the upper echelon of the game. Brad is a world-class tennis coach from Fresno, California who has coached numerous top ATP pros in his career, most notably former world #1 Jim Courier. He currently coaches ATP world #6 Kevin Anderson, and has also previously coached Andrei Medvedev, Jonathan Stark, Mardy Fish, Taylor Dent, Sebastien Grojean, Sargis Sargisian, and Byron Black. Brad played and coached at Fresno State, and led the program to a top 20 DI ranking as a coach. He was also a US National Coach for the USTA and coached the US junior national team, which was loaded with top talent: Jim Courier, Pete Sampras, MaliVai Washington, Todd Martin, Jonathan Stark, Jared Palmer, David Wheaton and Jeff Tarango On this episode, we talk about how Brad became a top level coach and his journey from coaching at the USTA, to college tennis, and eventually to coaching some of the best ATP pros of all time. I really hope you enjoy my interview with Brad! Let us know what you think about this episode in the comments below! Show Notes: Brad’s favorite place in the world to go snowboarding Brad's first memory of hitting a tennis ball How Brad got his start in coaching Brad’s experience coaching the US Junior National Team, which was loaded with top talent: Jim Courier, Pete Sampras, MaliVai Washington, Todd Martin, Jonathan Stark, Jared Palmer, David Wheaton and Jeff Tarango The most important skills Brad focused on developing in the US Junior National Team Coaching D1 college tennis at Fresno State The most important changes Brad made to the Fresno State tennis team that caused the program to eventually get a top 20 DI ranking, and why an atmosphere of respect is so important Differences between coaching in college and the pro tour Going from coaching college tennis to Jim Courier and how they ended up working together Jim’s personality and the approach Brad took to maximize Jim’s abilities Jim’s unorthodox backhand and how the coaching team maximized his game The importance of the backhand slice to Jim’s success The traits and habits that most contributed to Jim Courier’s rise to the top of the game How Brad and Kevin Anderson started their coaching partnership The importance of self-containment and conserving energy and how this has improved Kevin’s results How we can strike a balance between getting pumped up and positive versus conserving energy An example of having a stronger physical presence on the court Kevin’s most important traits that make him a top 10 player Kevin’s increased focus on his fitness training and getting stronger What’s next for Brad and Kevin 3 books Brad would gift to a friend to help them play better tennis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jared Palmer is a passionate JavaScript developer, pushing developer ergonomics in React with projects like formik and react-fns. Chantastic asks about what Suspense and Hooks mean for existing apps and what we should know to migrate our code sanely. They discuss why doing away with render props is a good thing, why Hooks are up to the task, and how Hooks and Suspense will impact libraries like formik, react-fns, and the-platform.

→ Join me on Patreon ← From 1992 to 2001 Alex O’Brien competed as an elite professional tennis player on the ATP World Tour. Career highlights include playing for the US Davis Cup team and the 2000 US Olympic Team in Sydney, Australia. Alex also won the US Open doubles championship in 1999 and ranked as the No. 1 world doubles player in May 2000. We’ve been working with Alex as a member of our own Elite Performance Program. He’s on the podcast with me today to talk about his journey to becoming a professional tennis player and sharing some of the moments that stand out to him from his years on the court. We also discuss his reasons for coming to NBT for health coaching and the progress he’s made since then. It’s also worth mentioning that in 1998 Alex created the Alex O’Brien Tennis Foundation - a nonprofit organization that brings tennis to underprivileged kids in his hometown of Amarillo, Texas. It’s still going strong after 20 years. Here’s the outline of this interview with Alex O’Brien: [00:03:28] Dick Gould, John Whitlinger. [00:06:30] Playing tennis professionally. [00:06:39] Jim Courier. [00:08:35] John McEnroe, Ivan Lendl. [00:10:36] Strength training. [00:11:25] Gustavo Kuerten. [00:13:00] Growth Mindset. Previous podcasts discussing mindset (both with Simon Marshall, PhD): Why We Self-Sabotage (And What to Do Instead) and Why Most People Never Learn From Their Mistakes - But Some Do. [00:14:13] Learning from losses. [00:16:00] Coping strategies for the pressure. [00:19:29] Björn Borg. [00:20:34] Becoming a doubles player. [00:22:09] Sébastien Lareau, Boris Becker, Andre Agassi, Sandon Stolle. [00:23:36] Wayne Ferreira, Jared Palmer. [00:24:29] Winner: 1999 US Open - Men’s Doubles. [00:25:50] Olympics. [00:27:30] Brandon Slay. [00:31:11] Health challenges. [00:33:56] Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast: Why Is My Cortisol High Even Though I’m Doing Everything Right? Hidden Causes Of High Cortisol, The DUTCH Test & More!, with Christopher Kelly. [00:39:00] Blood Chemistry Calculator; 5-Year Wellness Score. [00:40:17] Glycomark. [00:41:51] MTHFR. [00:42:48] Signal-to-noise ratio. [00:44:00] Homocysteine; organ meat. [00:45:07] Coping strategies for stress. [00:47:05] Making meditation a habit.

Panel: Charles Max Wood Sia Karamalegos Nader Dabit Special Guests: Jared Palmer In this episode of React Round Up, the panel discusses the article React, Redux, and JavaScript Architecture with the author James Sinclair. James is a web developer in Australia and he works at Squiz were he focuses on building a digital web place. They talk about his article and why he chose to write it, where he falls on the whole Redux debate, how to convince people to come to Redux, and much more! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: James intro React, Redux, and JavaScript Architecture Why were the people you are working with wary of leaving JavaScript? jQuery Great article on explaining why we use React Why React can be fast Is your team now moving to React or have they already moved over? Where do you fall on the Redux debate? Redux’s “disadvantages” are actually advantages What is your current stack of choice? Downshift Conditioner.js Most React tutorials assume you’re working on a single-page web app Sprinkles of jQuery Learning Redux helps to learn in a more functional way Functional programming as an influence to learn Redux Managing state How do you convince someone to learn Redux? Thoughts on GraphQL Apollo Server and Prisma Stimulus Apollo Link State And much, much more! Links: React, Redux, and JavaScript Architecture Squiz JavaScript jQuery React Redux Downshift Conditioner.js GraphQL Apollo Server Prisma Stimulus Apollo Link State jrsinclair.com @jrsinclair James’ LinkedIn James’ GitHub Sponsors Kendo UI Loot Crate FreshBooks Picks: Charles Being around family and friends Spend your life doing the things that really matter Sia Artificial Intelligence Machine Learning Nader React Native Training YouTube Channel Nader’s YouTube James Highland.js Functional Programming

Panel: Charles Max Wood Sia Karamalegos Nader Dabit Special Guests: Jared Palmer In this episode of React Round Up, the panel discusses the article React, Redux, and JavaScript Architecture with the author James Sinclair. James is a web developer in Australia and he works at Squiz were he focuses on building a digital web place. They talk about his article and why he chose to write it, where he falls on the whole Redux debate, how to convince people to come to Redux, and much more! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: James intro React, Redux, and JavaScript Architecture Why were the people you are working with wary of leaving JavaScript? jQuery Great article on explaining why we use React Why React can be fast Is your team now moving to React or have they already moved over? Where do you fall on the Redux debate? Redux’s “disadvantages” are actually advantages What is your current stack of choice? Downshift Conditioner.js Most React tutorials assume you’re working on a single-page web app Sprinkles of jQuery Learning Redux helps to learn in a more functional way Functional programming as an influence to learn Redux Managing state How do you convince someone to learn Redux? Thoughts on GraphQL Apollo Server and Prisma Stimulus Apollo Link State And much, much more! Links: React, Redux, and JavaScript Architecture Squiz JavaScript jQuery React Redux Downshift Conditioner.js GraphQL Apollo Server Prisma Stimulus Apollo Link State jrsinclair.com @jrsinclair James’ LinkedIn James’ GitHub Sponsors Kendo UI Loot Crate FreshBooks Picks: Charles Being around family and friends Spend your life doing the things that really matter Sia Artificial Intelligence Machine Learning Nader React Native Training YouTube Channel Nader’s YouTube James Highland.js Functional Programming

Panel: Nader Dabit Special Guests: Jared Palmer In this episode of React Round Up, the panel discusses Razzle and other projects with Jared Palmer. Jared is the lead engineer at The Palmer Group, where he spends his time building apps and services for companies that have been underserved by the recent technological changes. They talk about what Razzle is, the benefit of server-side rendering, and the difficulties he faced putting this project together. They also touch on why he chose to create Razzle and some of his other projects like Backpack and After.js. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: Jared intro How he got into programming Fell into programming by accident What is Razzle? Create React App with server-side rendering Gatsby Goal of Razzle What are the benefits of adding server-side rendering? The power of React Next.js React can hydrate once it renders on the server Razzle is thin layer around 2 Webpack watch tasks How do you handle routing? React Router After.js Performance pros to server-side rendering Is an app built in Razzle still considered a single-page application? React Resolver What were the technical difficulties putting Razzle together? Why made you want to create this? Wanted direct control over the project Backpack And much, much more! Links: The Palmer Group Razzle Create React App Gatsby React Next.js Webpack React Router After.js React Resolver Backpack The Palmer Group GitHub Jared’s Medium Jared’s GitHub @jaredpalmer Sponsors Kendo UI Digital Ocean FreshBooks Picks: Nader Proton Native Jared Guess.js Garden

Panel: Nader Dabit Special Guests: Jared Palmer In this episode of React Round Up, the panel discusses Razzle and other projects with Jared Palmer. Jared is the lead engineer at The Palmer Group, where he spends his time building apps and services for companies that have been underserved by the recent technological changes. They talk about what Razzle is, the benefit of server-side rendering, and the difficulties he faced putting this project together. They also touch on why he chose to create Razzle and some of his other projects like Backpack and After.js. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: Jared intro How he got into programming Fell into programming by accident What is Razzle? Create React App with server-side rendering Gatsby Goal of Razzle What are the benefits of adding server-side rendering? The power of React Next.js React can hydrate once it renders on the server Razzle is thin layer around 2 Webpack watch tasks How do you handle routing? React Router After.js Performance pros to server-side rendering Is an app built in Razzle still considered a single-page application? React Resolver What were the technical difficulties putting Razzle together? Why made you want to create this? Wanted direct control over the project Backpack And much, much more! Links: The Palmer Group Razzle Create React App Gatsby React Next.js Webpack React Router After.js React Resolver Backpack The Palmer Group GitHub Jared’s Medium Jared’s GitHub @jaredpalmer Sponsors Kendo UI Digital Ocean FreshBooks Picks: Nader Proton Native Jared Guess.js Garden

Jared Palmer joins us to talk about Formik

Jared Palmer joins us to talk about Formik

In this episode Michael Jackson talks with Jared Palmer about Razzle, After.js, Formik, several other open source libraries from Jared, as well as Typescript and the implications of the upcoming async APIs in React.

In this episode Michael Jackson talks with Jared Palmer about Razzle, After.js, Formik, several other open source libraries from Jared, as well as Typescript and the implications of the upcoming async APIs in React.

Jared Palmer, tech expert and co-founder of , talks about 10 of the most innovative trends at the Consumer Electronic Show.  He breaks down which new tech trends people should be investing in right now - and which ones investors should stay clear of.  Jared and Frank also mention more than 20 stock opportunities throughout this Podcast. So be sure to keep your pens handy since there are new tech trends, new innovations, and new gadgets you likely haven't heard about yet - that they will breakdown during this 30-minute interview.     Frank then talks about why he is now bearish on the markets.  He suggests investors take money off the table right away.  He also teaches investors how to look beyond the fundamentals when researching stocks.  This includes how to find the next Facebook, Tesla or NetFlix - that could offer you life-changing returns.   Please email Frank at with any comments and questions