Podcasts about Ordain Women

On March 12, 2025, Church educator and BYU professor Jared Halverson released an Instagram short where he stated: “One of the statistics that has worried me the most of late, comes from a survey that was done in 2023 and it's suggesting that for the first time that I can think of, more women are leaving religion than men are.” Is this true? Why are more women leaving Mormonism than men are? Join us today as we gather with Katie Rich (author of Fifty Years of Exponent II), Amy McPhie Allebest (of the Breaking Down Patriarchy YouTube channel), and Abby Maxwell Hansen (who was threatened with excommunication for her profile on Ordain Women in 2013 and an Exponent II blogger since 2019), as well as writer and columnist Jana Riess to discuss this growing phenomenon.Jared Halverson is an associate professor of Ancient Scriptures and served for over 20 years in the Church Education System. Halverson earned his BA in History and MA in Religious Education. He has been a featured speaker in devotionals as well as in academic settings. He is the host of the YouTube channel and podcast titled “Unshaken.”You can view Jared Halverson's original video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TevsIrw1nqsShow Notes: https://www.mormonstories.org/why-are-women-leaving-the-mormon-church/

This video explores the rich history and ongoing journey of Mormon feminism through the lens of Exponent II. Katie Ludlow Rich and Heather Sundahl share their personal stories, including feminist awakenings, experiences with the Church, and their work preserving women's voices in Mormon history. Topics include women's roles in the Church, the suppression of women's spiritual practices, mixed-faith marriages, and the impact of feminist movements like Ordain Women. Dive into the influence of Exponent II, the challenges faced by Mormon feminists, and the resilience of women seeking to redefine their roles in faith and community. Show Notes YouTube Mormon Stories Thanks Our Generous Donors! Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today: One-time or recurring donation through Donorbox Support us on Patreon PayPal Venmo Our Platforms: YouTube Patreon Spotify Apple Podcasts Contact us:MormonStories@gmail.comPO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117 Social Media: Insta: @mormstories TikTok: @mormonstoriespodcast Join the Discord

Joe Heschmeyer dispels confusion about the subject of female ordination, examining the meaning of priesthood and what it reveals about God. Transcription: Why won’t the Catholic church just ordain women as priests? That is one of the most common questions that I as a Catholic get from non-Catholics, and I think it’s unsatisfying to them to hear the first part of the answer, which is that from a Catholic perspective, the church can’t ordain women as priests. Then John Paul II was completely clear about this point where he said that the teaching that priestly ordination is to…

Does Excommunication work? It seems to have shut down both the Ordain Women movement and the Feminist Movement in 1993. What can people learn from these episodes to effect change in the LDS Church? Dr Margaret Toscano discusses lessons learned. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/8PydVPNg9jI Don't miss our other conversations about the Sept Six: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/sept-six/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2024 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission transcript to follow Copyright © 2024 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved

A decade after the Ordain Women movement within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made national news, another feminist issue is getting lots of media attention. During a March 17 meeting to celebrate the creation of the church's Relief Society, J. Anette Dennis, first counselor in the faith's global women's organization, declared that “there is no other religious organization in the world that I know of that has so broadly given power and authority to women.” Dennis went on to say that “other faiths ordain women to roles like priest or pastor, but those individuals represent a small minority when compared to the total number of women within their congregations.” In the Utah-based church, all women “who choose a covenant relationship with God in the House of the Lord are endowed with priesthood power directly from God.” It is a sentiment that has been expressed previously by Dallin H. Oaks, first counselor in the church's governing First Presidency, and by Sheri Dew, a former counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency. But when the church posted Dennis' quote on Instagram, a flood of responses from women ensued — more than 15,000 comments. And, in an unusual acknowledgment, the church's social media team promised to share the “thoughts, feelings and experiences” with the faith's leaders. On this week's show, discussing this speech, the overwhelming response it generated and the role of women in the church, are Julie Hanks, a Latter-day Saint therapist in Utah, and Amy Watkins Jensen, a Latter-day Saint middle school humanities teacher in Oakland, California, who created the Women on the Stand letter-writing campaign in the wake of women's leaders being removed from the stand at worship services in the Bay Area.

Kate Kelly, Esq. is a zealous advocate and passionate activist. She has a JD from American University Washington College of Law, the only law school in the world founded by, and for, women.  She is a vocal women's rights champion in the U.S., and around the world.Kate believes the simple and popular adage that women's rights are human rights, and is committed to legal advocacy & education for women & other marginalized groups. She is a nationally-known advocate for ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment, and Host of the Gold Anthem Award-winning podcast Ordinary Equality. She has a book also called “Ordinary Equality” about the history of the women who have shaped the U.S. Constitution. In 2013 Kate founded a group called Ordain Women to advocate for gender equality in the Mormon Church. She was convicted of apostasy by 3 male Mormon leaders & excommunicated from the church in June 2014 for speaking out against the institutional oppression of women. But, Kate's work for women's equality continues unabated. You can find Kate Kelly:On her website: www.katekellyesq.comPurchase her book: Ordinary EqualityFollow on IG: kate_kelly_esqI want to hear from you!Support & Subscribe- your support helps me to keep making this podcast! Become a supporter and I will shout out a thank you on my next episode!DM me on IG @tiphanykaneCheck out my website: www.tiphanykane.comLeave Tiphany a Voice Message to have a spotlight on the podcastProduced & Edited by: KaSa Media Productions

A recent edition of On Point explored the role of patriarchal power in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the consequences of that for Mormon women in abusive relationships. Currently, only men in the Mormon Church get to ascend the religious hierarchy. Kate Kelly founded the group Ordain Women roughly a decade ago to try to change that.

The text we will read today is very offensive to contemporary Western culture. And so,Read More »Why We Don’t Ordain Women

Thank you for reading this sermon from Christ Fellowship. I hope and pray that thisRead More »Why We Don’t Ordain Women

Make sure to go listen to the full episode on Not So Peter Priesthood Podcast! Email us: notsomollymormonpodcast@gmail.com Support us: patreon.com/notsomollymormon

This week is all about women! Jake is joined with Dusti and special guest, Kadey from Not So Molly Mormon podcast to talk about women and the priesthood. Jake gives a history lesson and Kadey talks all about Ordain Women and the audacity of women trying to wear pants to church.

When I began questioning the LDS Church, I did not expect the Stake Relief Society president to join me. Nicola Petty went from orthodox and loyal member guided by the priesthood to a Stake Relief Society President who had been woken up by the Ordain Women movement. It was in this capacity that I watched her press priesthood button after priesthood button advocating intelligently and determinedly for the women in our stake. And then, when the church was no longer reconcilable, rather than spit the church out, Nicola planned her exit well, and took up the challenge to build a new life. Her's is a story of integrity, integration, and extraordinary grace for a church she once loved deeply but no longer sees as essential to her human becoming.   This is a personal story of breaking up well. 

In today's Gospel (Matthew 8:1-4), we see that the humble faith of the leper witnesses the miracle.  This is an important lesson to us all.  If we want to see the miracle in the Church, we cannot compromise the teachings of the Church.  We do not tell the Lord that we know better.  He is the one that leads the way and we follow.   PAVING THE WAY HOME: Website: http://pavingthewayhome.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pavingthewayhome Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pavingthewayhome_ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com Spotify: https://open.spotify.com Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com   SUPPORT PAVING THE WAY HOME: If you would like to financially support the work of Paving The Way Home so that we can keep on top of our costs and can continue to produce regular material, there are three possible methods: 1) Please visit http://pavingthewayhome.com/support-us/ for our bank account details 2) Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/pavingthewayhome 3) PayPal: https://paypal.me/pavingthewayhome?locale.x=en_US Your support is greatly appreciated. Thank you.   HOLY FAMILY MISSION: Learn more about Fr. Patrick's work with Holy Family Mission at https://www.holyfamilymission.ie/   If you would like to watch Fr. Patrick celebrate Mass, visit https://www.churchservices.tv/glencomeragh

Episode 703 | Adriel Sanchez and Bill Maier answer caller questions. Show Notes CoreChristianity.com   1. Where should I go in the Bible to address alcoholism? 2. Is it a sin to be cremated? 3. Does the New Testament say that we do not need the laws of the Old Testament? 4. I recently saw that one of the biggest churches in America ordained 3 women to pastoral ministry. This is the first time the church has done this. Did the church leaders just change their mind, or do you think this is a practice that more churches should begin doing? 5. Can we donate our bodies to science when we die? 6. Augustine and Luther taught God regenerates via water baptism, and that regeneration can be lost. Is this true?  Today’s Offer Core Kit Request our latest special offers here or call 1-833-THE-CORE (833-843-2673) to request them by phone. Want to partner with us in our work here at Core Christianity? Consider becoming a member of the Inner Core. Resources HOW DO CHRISTIANS RELATE TO THE LAW? WHY YOU DON’T HAVE TO OBEY ALL THE RULES IN THE BIBLE      

Sign up for our exclusive content to go even deeper. Become a "Behind Closed Doors" subscriber here. https://truesexwildlove.supercast.tech/     Kate Kelly is a New York City-based activist and lawyer, a vocal proponent of the ERA, and a former Mormon. She was excommunicated from the Mormon Church in 2014 for apostasy after founding an organization called Ordain Women to do just that, and for critiquing institutionalized oppression of women. Kate talks to us about purity culture, feminism, her ongoing commitment to Mormon fashion (her long skirts are lit AF), and coming out as queer   Connect with Kate Kelly Website | http://www.katekellyesq.com/ Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/kate_kelly_esq/?hl=en Twitter | https://twitter.com/Kate_Kelly_Esq   Show Notes Mormon Worthiness Interview | https://bit.ly/2DCvCbj Mormonism | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormons BYU | https://bit.ly/1TZx7Qs The Mormon Worker | https://themormonworker.wordpress.com/ Soulforce | https://www.soulforce.org/ Alice Paul | https://bit.ly/2UaYwDl   Sign up for Whitney's 4 Month Mentorship Program https://4-month-mentorship.mykajabi.com/TogetherNLove     Show Sponsor: AirDoctor  Save $300 off your Purifier when you visit  bit.ly/tswlairdoc      LGC Testosterone Test www.trylgc.com/wildlove for 20% off     Connect with Wednesday Martin: Website | http://wednesdaymartin.com/ Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/wednesdaymartinphd/ Twitter | https://twitter.com/WednesdayMartin Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/wednesdaymartinphd/ YouTube | https://bit.ly/2zfvv1H   Check out Wednesday Martin’s new book Untrue | http://wednesdaymartin.com/books/untrue/   Connect with Whitney Miller: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/whitnlove/?hl=en Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/Miss2Jits/ Twitter | https://twitter.com/whitnlove   Subscribe on Itunes https://apple.co/2XKfS0b Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2JPxuhn Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2xYNQz0   Google Play Music | bit.ly/30nJwWA IHeartRadio | https://ihr.fm/2NooEuw    

The debate about abortion is often considered a black and white issue -- but that actually isn't the case. Join co-hosts  Kate Kelly and Jamia Wilson as they discuss their own histories related to reproductive rights and kick off season 2 of Ordinary Equality. We want to hear from you! If you have an abortion story you want to share, leave us a message at: (516) 636-3012.‬Follow us on Twitter at @OrdEquality for everything you need to know about the ERA and the latest abortion laws as we watch history in the making. Kate Kelly on TwitterJamia Wilson on TwitterSpecial thanks to Faith Salie for voicing Crystal Eastman in this episode!

We're still working on a new season of Radicals & Revolutionaries Lab for your listening pleasure, but while you wait, why not revisit some old favourites? Kate Kelly was our very first interview ever, back when this podcast was barely more than the seed of an idea. We're proud to re-air this episode, uncut and remastered, as we look back on the roots of this show.In 2013, Ordain Women was founded to advocate for women’s ordination in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Within a few years, the group included thousands of activists, many of whom had never before taken action, and sparked a conversation that required church members as well as leadership to confront gender inequality within the institution. Kate Kelly is the woman behind it all. She grew up somewhat orthodox, served a mission for the church, and was later excommunicated in a fairly public way. In between it all, Kate became a human rights lawyer and is now a legal fellow at Columbia Law School’s Human Rights in the U.S. Project. She is fierce and outspoken about her commitment to women’s rights as human rights, which of course makes me love Kate even more.ResourcesFollow Kate Kelly on TwitterOrdain WomenOrdinary Equality (new podcast featuring Kate Kelly)Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/rrlab. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Jim Bennett is the author of "A Faithful Reply to the CES Letter."  He is also the son of the late Utah U.S. Senator Bob Bennett. In Part 4 of a multi-part series with Jim, we discuss in-depth his approach to maintaining belief in the Mormon church AFTER exposure to all of the historical and social problems currently vexing the LDS church, as highlighted in Jeremy Runnell's groundbreaking book "CES Letter: My Search for Answers to my Mormon Doubts." Today's episode covers: Women and the church and the Ordain Women movement. The Mormon church's approach to "Law of Chastity" issues including pornography, masturbation, and one-on-one "worthiness interviews." The Mormon church's handling and mishandling of sexual abuse cases. The Mormon church's treatment (including excommunication) of activists and critics. A closing discussion of the faith crisis "epidemic" within the modern LDS church, and Jim's opinions about the best way to handle the situation. To thank Jim for his participation so far in this series, please email him at: jim@canonizer.com.

Kate Kelly On this episode, I discuss the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) with passionate advocate and activist for women's rights, Kate Kelly. We discuss the role that the state of Virginia will play in finally ratifying the ERA, after it was introduced nearly a century ago. About Today's Guest: In 2013 Kate Kelly founded a group called Ordain Women to advocate for gender equality in the Mormon Church. She was convicted of apostasy by 3 male Mormon leaders & excommunicated from the church in June 2014 for speaking out against the institutional oppression of women. Throughout her legal career, she has been committed to defending human rights, the rights of refugees and asylum seekers, as well as, the rights of other marginalized groups. Support the Electorette Rate & Review on iTunes: https://apple.co/2GsfQj4 Support Electorette on Patreon for $2/month: http://bit.ly/Electorette-Patreon Also, if you enjoy the Electorette, please subscribe and leave a 5-star review on iTunes. Also, please spread the word by telling your friends, family and colleagues about The Electorette! Want to support the Electorette so that we can bring you more great episodes? You can help us produce more episodes with just $2/per month on Patreon. Every bit helps! Patreon.com/Electorette WANT MORE ELECTORETTE? Follow the Electorette on social media. Electorette Facebook Electorette Instagram Electorette Twitter The Electorette is a proud member of the DemCast Network! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Valerie and Robert discuss many sensitive subjects in his new book, Royal Daughters with Priesthood Power.   Rob says there are 7 ways that women can exercise priesthood power.   We also discussed the cultural aspects of holding the priesthood and how we can do better at supporting women and their concerns. Book:https://www.cedarfort.com/products/royal-daughters-with-priesthood-power-7-ways-latter-day-saint-women-receive-and-exercise-the-priesthood  Robert:  https://rsc.byu.edu/authors/line-c-robertValerie:  Http://www.valerieloveless.info 

Kate Kelly is a New York City based activist and lawyer, vocal proponent of the ERA, and former Mormon. She was excommunicated from the Mormon Church in 2014 for apostasy after founding an organization called Ordain Women to do just that, and for critiquing institutionalized oppression of women. Kate talks to us about purity culture, feminism, her ongoing commitment to Mormon fashion (her long skirts are lit AF) and coming out as queer Connect with Kate KellyWebsite | http://www.katekellyesq.com/Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/kate_kelly_esq/?hl=enTwitter | https://twitter.com/Kate_Kelly_EsqThis episode is brought to you by Sweet VibrationsVisit https://sweetvibes.toys/ and use the code "Wild Love" to get %15 off at checkout Connect with Wednesday Martin:Website | http://wednesdaymartin.com/Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/wednesdaymartinphd/Twitter | https://twitter.com/WednesdayMartinFacebook | https://www.facebook.com/wednesdaymartinphd/YouTube | https://bit.ly/2zfvv1H Check out Wednesday Martin’s new book Untrue | http://wednesdaymartin.com/books/untrue/ Connect with Whitney Miller:Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/whitnlove/?hl=enFacebook | https://www.facebook.com/Miss2Jits/Twitter | https://twitter.com/whitnlove Subscribe on Itunes https://apple.co/2XKfS0bSpotify | https://spoti.fi/2JPxuhnStitcher | https://bit.ly/2xYNQz0  Google Play Music | bit.ly/30nJwWAIHeartRadio | https://ihr.fm/2NooEuwShow NotesMormon Worthiness Interview | https://bit.ly/2DCvCbjMormonism | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MormonsBYU | https://bit.ly/1TZx7QsThe Mormon Worker | https://themormonworker.wordpress.com/Soulforce | https://www.soulforce.org/Alice Paul | https://bit.ly/2UaYwDl

Ask a Suffragist: April Young Bennett began studying the lives of suffragists to inform her own activism. She has campaigned for better state and federal laws that affect children and families; addressing the wage gap, healthcare, education and juvenile justice; and for gender equity within her modern-day patriarchal religious community. As an organizer for the activist organization Ordain Women, she led hundreds of women and men in marches and demonstrations that attracted national attention. April helps feminists of different faiths share ideas and collaborate toward common goals at the Religious Feminism Podcast. She blogs about Mormon feminism at Exponent II, an organization that began during the second-wave feminist movement, that is named after a nineteenth-century Mormon suffragist newspaper. Websites Ask a Suffragist: askasuffragist.com April Young Bennett: aprilyoungb.com Exponent II Blog: the-exponent.com/author/April Religious Feminism Podcast: the-exponent.com/category/podcast/ Social Networks Twitter: @AprilYoungB Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/aprilyoungb/ Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/aprilyoungb/

One of the most divisive questions in the modern church is whether or not biological sex plays a role in who should be allowed to preach (and there are other issues wrapped up in this one, like whether women should be primary bread-winners, etc). Egalitarians say, “No, let the women preach!” Complementarians say, “Yes, men only; that is how God set things up.” In this episode, we hear from Dan’s Godmother Barb Clark, who is an elder in an Egalitarian church, but has some nagging concerns about the whole thing. Then the bulk of the episode is spent with Rev. Bonnie Lewis, a pastor, teacher and Bible translator, who not only makes her argument for Egalitarianism, but also responds to many of the most common counter arguments from the Contemplentarian side. Finally, we get Barb’s reaction to Dan’s chat with Bonnie. This one is a doozy! BadChristian Podcast Dan/Bonnie episode (#438): http://www.badchristian.com/bc_podcast/bonnie-lewis-at-the-bcxcon/ Bonnie’s “Timshel” translation: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1945582321/timshel-an-idiomatic-bible-translation Edited by Josh Gilbert (Gwall.Gilbert11@gmail.com) Join the Patreon for bonus episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch YHP Patron-only FB group: https://tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: youhavepermissionpod.com Join Dan's email list: dankochwords.com Artwork by http://sprungle.co/

April Young Bennett – A Voice Lesson from a SuffragistAired Thursday, 6 June 2019, 9:00 AM EST / 6:00 AM PSTFive score years ago on June 4th, 1919 the US Congress passed the 19th amendment guaranteeing the first wave of American women the right to vote. In honor of the giants whose shoulders we stand upon we dedicate this week’s episode to the female movers and shakers who have changed the game by raising the power of female voices.Join voice master Kara Johnstad and our honorable guest, April Young Bennett, as they tune us with the echoes of our foremothers.About April Young Bennett:Ms. Bennett has campaigned for better state and federal laws addressing the wage gap, healthcare, education, juvenile justice, and gender equity. As an organizer for the activist organization Ordain Women, she has led hundreds of women and men in marches and demonstrations, thereby attracting national attention. She helps feminists of different faiths share ideas and collaborate toward common goals at the Religious Feminism Podcast. Ms. Bennett blogs about Mormon feminism at Exponent II, an organization in existence since the second wave feminist movement.

April Young Bennett – Ask a SuffragistAired Wednesday, 29 May 2019, 8:00 PM ETTuesday, June 4th, will mark the 100th anniversary of the passing of the 19th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The amendment, which was ratified on August 18th, 1920, granted women (but not all women) the right to vote. This right was called “women’s suffrage.” It wasn’t until the Civil Rights Act of 1965 that all women, including African American women in many parts of the south and many indigenous women, finally achieved this right. Today, nearly 200 years after women began speaking out for equality, we still find a society where many women are struggling for their rights, are often met with sexism and misogyny and still find the proverbial “glass ceiling” inhibiting their full pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. Are their lessons that women of the 21st century can learn from the original suffragists of the 19th century? Can examining their struggle offer new inspiration for today’s women and also open the hearts and minds of men?My guest this week on Destination Unlimited, April Young Bennett, did just that. April Young Bennett began studying the lives of suffragists to inform her own activism. As Communications Director for Voices for Utah Children, she worked within nationwide networks of advocates for changes to state and federal policies affecting children and parents such as pay equity, healthcare, education and juvenile justice. April Young Bennett was a founding organizer and spokesperson for the activist group Ordain Women, which has been featured in respected news outlets such as the New York Times and the Washington Post. Ordain Women collaborates with the Women’s Ordination Conference (Catholic), Ordain Women Now (Lutheran), Women of the Wall (Jewish), the Parliament of World Religions Women’s Task Force and other networks of religious feminists. April produces and hosts the Religious Feminism Podcast, which provides a forum for feminists across a variety of faith communities and secular feminist organizations to learn about each other and work together toward common goals. She blogs about Mormon feminism at the-exponent.com, which averages 40,000 unique visitors per month. She joins me this week to discuss her new book, Ask a Suffragist: Stories and Wisdom from America’s First Feminists.

Kate Kelly was excommunicated, and several women reported losing their temple recommends due to their association with Ordain Women.  I asked Bryndis Roberts if she felt members of the group were being targeted. https://youtu.be/a09U5zNogWk Roberts:  I don't know if I would go so far as to call it a purge.  I think, for some of us, as more and more questions were raised in our minds about things that the Church was doing, or even the Church's response to our requests that the church do things differently or consider doing things differently. I think some women left the church as a result of those actions. For me, I was released from being Relief Society president in June of 2015, and in July of 2017, my temple recommend was taken away.  Now, I'm trying to see the actions that I participated in prior to being released from being Relief Society president in 2015. My name was carried as a proxy in the second priesthood action, which would have been in, I think, that would have been in April of 2014. Then in October of 2014, we had what we called a local priesthood action, where we encouraged people to try to go and get admitted into the priesthood meeting in their local areas, and I joined two other women in Georgia. We went to one of their stakes, the stake of one of those women to try to, to the stake meeting house or wherever they were having that the priesthood meeting, to try to get admitted into that meeting. We were not allowed to join, we were turned away at the door. But other women were allowed to come in, people out in California, actually, and some places here in Utah. ... GT:  Okay, so, alright, wow. So, let me just give you kind of my perception and tell me if you think this is a legitimate perception. After Kate was excommunicated, in my eyes, it seemed like the profile of Ordain Women went down. But it sounds like you were still doing actions. Was there a purposeful lowering of the profile, if you will, so that you wouldn't be quite as confrontational? Roberts:  I don't accept that were ever confrontation.   I mean.. GT:  And I agree with you, but can you see that the brethren felt that Kate especially was confrontational? Roberts:  I can't speak to what the brethren felt, okay?  Certainly, we have not had since April of 2014, an in-person action that had the amount of participation that the first two priesthood actions had. I think there are a lot of reasons for that. Part of that is that the Mormon moment has passed. You know, the Mormon moment that sort of grew out of Mitt Romney running for president and all of that. Then I think, people were very hopeful before Kate was excommunicated. A lot of people were very hopeful, there had been signs, albeit small ones from the church, that perhaps church leaders were willing to listen, and were willing to make some changes. I mean, the Let Women Pray campaign has been held and a woman had actually prayed. I mean, we had at least somewhat of a history of seeing that our concerns had at least been listened to, and perhaps, while our leaders might not be be willing to acknowledge that there was a direct cause and effect between us raising our concerns, and the change being made, changes had been made. So, I think there was a hope, an expectation, a prayer, that there would be a very different response from the church to the two priesthood actions. When the response was to excommunicate Kate, I think a number of people did have to say, "Okay, maybe I was wrong about how the church is going to react to this." Roberts:  But I don't think it was so much fear that led people to maybe not be as much involved, maybe it was more of a recognition or a change from having a hope that the church would change to recognizing, "Oh, they're digging their heels in. they're not going to change," and deciding that energies would be better spent elsewhere. So, you know, I reject the notion that women were filled with a spirit of fear.

Kate Kelly was the founder of Ordain Women until her excommunication.  What happened next?  Bryndis Roberts discusses the aftermath, and the new structure of Ordain Women Leadership. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BK3e7GgDOg GT: Okay, and so how did you go from, "Hey, I've just got my profile on the web page,” to now you're in charge? Roberts:  Probably, because if I'm going to do something, I just believe in jumping in with both feet.  So, I put up a profile maybe in September 2014. I was invited to join the executive board in December 2014.  I helped with a number of projects, and then as time rolled on, and we needed to elect a chair-elect, I was nominated as Chair-elect and served four years chair-elect and then moved into the position of Chair of the Executive Board. Check out our conversation….

After seeing gender inequities in the Church, Bryndis Roberts decided to join Ordain Women.  But even before that, she pointed out gender problems within the Church. https://youtu.be/hzKkhX0UMu8 Roberts:  [I was] very proactive in raising questions and wondering why things were done this way. Whether it was questioning why we had to have a priesthood holder there when we had Relief Society events; whether it was raising the question as to why the little girls only met every other week; whether it was raising a question about why don't we affiliate with the Girl Scouts? Whether it was advocating for a class called Strengthening Single Mothers. So, I continued to do things in my church role that were, at least in my mind, trying to address some of the disparities and the inequities, but I did not do them from the context of being part of Ordain Women. I did them for from the context of just being a woman in the ward who sees these things. GT :  Were people receptive to your admonitions? Roberts:  I think I made some of the men in my ward probably as uncomfortable as I made my missionaries when I was raising some of the questions. Because when I raised the question, for instance, about why?  I have never been one to accept that something is a rule. If it's a rule, then it needs to be written down, and I want to see that rule because it often has been my experience that people will read words and think that words say things that words do not say. So, when I raised the question about why do we have to have a priesthood holder? Show me the rule. I felt that then people went off and had to come and look to find the rule. Of course, it was in handbook number one. GT:  The secret one. Roberts:  The handbook that I don't get to see. But then they came back and said, and I think the language said something to the effect of, "Priesthood holders should instruct members of the church, particularly women and children, not to be alone in an unlocked building." Well, I mean, I don't know, you can read that sentence backwards, you can switch the words around, you can do whatever you want to with that sentence. That sentence simply does not say that a priesthood holder has to be present, when a bunch of grown women are holding a Relief Society event at the church, it simply does not say that. So I pointed that out that this rule does not say that. Check out our conversation…. Bryndis Roberts explains how she got involved in Ordain Women. Check out our other conversations with Bryndis! 271: Addressing Gender Inequities 270: From Baptist to Mormon

In IT we know that the only constant is change. And for the most part, that's OK. What is difficult is when standards or processes are framed as immutable, and THEN they change. How do we adjust when the company spends $5million on a data center expansion, and then moves everything to the cloud 2 years later? Or when Windows abandons the GUI and goes to CLI, while Cisco moves away from IOS commands and on to GUI and API-driven interfaces? Does our religious/ethical/moral background help (or hinder) us from accepting and adapting to these moments in our work as IT pros? In this episode Kate, Josh, and Leon try to unpack the question and formulate some answers. Listen or read the transcript below. Leon: 00:00 Hey everyone. It's Leon. Before we start this episode, I wanted to let you know about a book I wrote. It's called The Four Questions Every Monitoring Engineer is Asked", and if you like this podcast, you're going to love this book. It combines 30 years of insight into the world of IT with wisdom gleaned from Torah, Talmud, and Passover. You can read more about it including where you can get a digital or print copy over on adatosystems.com. Thanks! Kate: 00:25 Welcome to our podcast where we talk about the interesting, frustrating and inspiring experience we have as people with strongly held religious views working in corporate IT. We're not here to preach or teach you our religion (or lack thereof). We're here to explore ways we make our career as IT professionals mesh - or at least not conflict - with our religious life. This is Technically Religious. Leon: 00:49 Last week, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints made an announcement which sent shock waves through the Mormon community and tremors throughout many other religious communities as well. We'll get into the details about that in a minute. But it caused us here at Technically Religious to think about how supposedly immutable truths, whether we're talking about replacing Latin with English during mass or Microsoft's adoption of open source, affect us and how we deal with those changes. Joining the conversation today is Kate Asaff Kate: 01:17 Hello. Leon: 01:18 And Josh Biggley. Josh: 01:20 Yeah, it's still cold in Canada! Leon: 01:23 and I'm Leon Adato and it's slightly warmer here in Cleveland. So Josh, do us a favor and run us down just the main points of the announcement from last week. Josh: 01:34 Sure. So this announcement was made in early April, and in order to understand it, we have to go all the way back to November, 2015, and maybe even a little further. So the Organization of the Mormon Church, or the LDS church, or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, is such that it's a top down organization. So the President, or prophet, of the church, he makes a declaration, often he has to get his two counselors and the other 12 men that sit on the quorum of the 12 apostles. And then those 15 men make these proclamations. So in November of 2015, the church released a policy internally, that was leaked, and then they had to address it publicly, that said that any child who had parents who were of the same gender, so you're in a same sex-relationship or a same-gender relationship or if you are trans-gendered - first, they were now labeled apostates. And that's really heavy language within any religious community. There's one thing to have transgressed, but there's another thing to be considered an apostate. And then in addition to them being an apostate, they also said that no child whose primary residence was with those same sex couples could receive any ordinances within the church. So that spans the entire gamut of: You could not be blessed as an infant within the church; to: you couldn't be baptized; to: if you were in the church - there are certain things that you that you undertake within Mormonism, you know, if you're a boy at the age of 12 (and now the age of 11) you can receive the priesthood - just things that you can't do, many of those rites of passage. So last week, and of course we're recording this in the early days of April, so last week the church came out and said, "Hey, that policy that was put into place in November of 2015? We're going to change that policy. And we're going to make it so that now if you are the child of an LGBTQ family, you can be baptized as an infant, you can be blessed within the church, under the understanding that of course the church is going to reach out to you and, throughout your lifetime because you are now officially a member of the church, once you're, once you're blessed and in the LDS church. That's a huge change because leadership within the church and members at large - admittedly myself prior to my transition away from Mormonism - defended that policy with a couple of talking points. First and foremost that the prophet, he specifies what is the will of God. He speaks for God. He's God's mouthpiece on earth. And second that this was an act of kindness, because we didn't want to - as a church - we didn't want to have people, with their children attending the Mormon church where the Mormon church was teaching that their parents were apostates. And then having to go home to their parents and say, "Hey mom and dad...", sorry... I got... hey, look at that. "Hey Mom and mom, dad and dad." Or "Hey, mom and dad, you know, dad and dad or mom and mom. You're an apostate." Or "You know, we think that you should be excommunicated." And all those horrible things that go along with that. So yeah, that's um, that was huge. I was pretty... I'll admit I was pretty pissed off on Thursday. Not because I disagree with the change that children should be allowed to join whatever church they want to regardless of their parents. I was just pissed off because lots of people put a lot of time and effort into setting aside their personal views and trying to make it so that they align with what they were being told from the top of the church. And then the church went, "Hey, by the way, we're going to change." Leon: 05:36 Right. And you'd actually mentioned in an earlier episode when we talked about opposing as you follow, you said that that was one of the things that caused you and your family to move away from the Mormon church for a while. And then you came back and you suffered censure and a bunch of other things for those views. So you directly experienced some of that just for expressing an opinion. Josh: 05:58 Yeah. And that actually goes back pretty far in my marriage. That goes back probably 15 years ago when that particular experience happened. I mean, just to give some context and then, and I know that we want to talk about this as a foundation for IT. And I think there's a great parallel. And Leon, thanks for calling it out. Harold B. Lee, who was the president of the church from July of 1972 until his death in December of 1973, he said this: "You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself, with patience and faith, the promise is that 'the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name's glory." So, you know, pretty powerful language from the LDS church. Fortunately in IT, apart from Mac users, right Kate? Nobody thinks that their salvation from any of their other platforms. Leon: 07:09 I think actually, yeah, there is actually a Mac airbook that blocks the gates of hell. Kate: 07:14 It's actually an iPad. Leon: 07:18 Oh, of course. It would be. And that, with making a little bit of lighthearted humor is where I actually want to go, which is the IT aspects of that. But before we dig too far into that can we think - the three of us - can we think of any other analogs in religions that may have been that same kind of thing? Again, I'm not talking about the fact that things change. I'm talking about things that were supposedly immutable, or somewhat permanent, and then the group, the organization sort of pivoted away from it. And, and I brought up one which was the change from the Catholic mass from Latin to English, which you know, happened I think in the seventies, if I remember correctly? I could be wrong because I don't pay very much attention to that kind of stuff. But I remember that it caused quite a bit of a stir, Josh: 08:13 Yeah, the ordination of women in the United Methodist Church, which happened well before I was born back in the mid fifties is an interesting one. Again, linking it to Mormonism. A woman named Kate Kelly founded an organization called Ordain Women. She's a lawyer and an activist and she was excommunicated by the LDS church in June, 2014. So everyone kind of waits for the day in which women will be ordained within the Mormon church or within the the LDS church. I don't know if it's going to happen, but we certainly see that adopted. And that's a huge thing, right? Because traditionally, you know, as far back as tradition goes religions tended to be very patriarchal. Where, you know, men were the heads, the household, they were the heads of the church. And so for the United Methodist to allow women to be ordained officially, even though it had been doing it for a long time, unofficially. That was huge. Kate: 09:04 It kinda reminds me in the 90's when the Catholic Church decided to start allowing girls to be altar servers. I remember there was a cardinal in Boston who had saw these girls serving and before the proclamation came from the Vatican, the story I heard was that he told the congregation, "Get these girls out of here." He didn't want to see them serving and that it was something, obviously 20 years later it has stuck with me Leon: 09:34 With religion you have things that really are dogmatic. Sometimes we throw that word around somewhat flippantly but religion actually is dogmatic. It has, you know, strictures or rules that are, at least in the eyes of it, internally immutable. And so you've got that. But pivoting to the IT piece, I want to talk a little bit about, about that. What are some of those changes? It's not going to change and then it does and you have to suddenly cope with it. What are some of the ones that we've either heard about or experienced ourselves? Kate: 10:08 Well since you guys were poking fun of me a little bit earlier as being a devoted Apple fan girl I will bring up the 2006 when Apple changed from Motorola to Intel processors. That was a huge thing for the Apple community and you know, many of us had spent years structuring these complex arguments as to why RISC processors are better than CISC processors and you know, insisting that megahertz and gigahertz aren't true measures of processing power. And then all of a sudden, like everything for us was just blown away overnight. Now Macs were Intel based and we kind of had to let go of, you know, our are sworn allegiance to the Motorola chipset. Leon: 10:56 That's, I'm going to say funny, not funny ha ha, but I just had, I would never have expected that to be overwhelming to a community. But I can see that the way that you describe it, I can absolutely understand that you had an emotional investment in a particular hardware standard. Josh: 11:16 Yeah. Well, I think that functional workspace, right? You know, Kate, you talked about defending the position of you know, RISC processors. That's why it's good. That's why it's the thing that makes Apple as awesome as it is. And we all go through that. You know, I've been in the industry long enough that I remember walking into data centers and seeing literally big metal, there were mainframes sitting on the data center floor. The idea that we would virtualize? It blew people's minds and I was like, I thought that was a great idea. Let's virtualize, let's get density. I will admit to being a little slower to adopt a shift to cloud because it, it put in place some barriers to entry for me. When I started my career, I loved the idea of networking, although I'm not a networking engineer, but I loved the idea that you could plug in cables and lights would start blinking and things just work. You know, there was, there was a command line and I actually, I had a reputation for asking questions in class, like "How do you do that from the command line?" But it got beaten out of me. I was that guy. But it got beaten out of me because Windows was the thing, Windows and at the time, a Netware were the platforms for for server managers and that's where I was headed. We've made this swing to having to code, and I don't code, but everything is code now. Networking is code, storage code, servers are code, everything is code. I'm made a very firm stance early in my career that I didn't want to code because I wasn't good at it. I'm still not good at it. I feel like I'm fumbling with 14 hands tied behind my back. I don't know what the analogy is. I just feel dumb. I feel like I'm the guy smashing his face on his keyboard trying to make things work anytime I code. So I get it. Those shifts are hard, and they're not hard because we don't, I don't want to accept the shift to cloud. It's hard because it makes me address other deficiencies in myself that I don't know that I'm 100% ready to address. Speaker 1: 13:24 And I think that that's actually a good point is that the change, the changes themselves may not be so troublesome, but they address either inadequacies or perceived inadequacies in ourselves and we don't like that. We don't always like to have a mirror held up to it. Sometimes I think it's not that though. So given a quintessential example, and I think many of us in IT have experienced this, where on Monday the business says, "Hey, you know, this event is occurring," whether it's a merger or an acquisition or whatever it is, "but don't worry, nothing's going to change for you. Everything's going to be just fine." And then Friday, metaphorically, they say, "Oh, by the way, we're shutting down the location" or "You're being let go" or you know, "We're moving this entire department to merge with this other department" or whatever it is. And, whether it happens in days or weeks or months, "You first told me nothing was going to change. And then it did." And that's the part that I think a lot of us have a hard time coping with. Don't tell me that it's not going to change when you know full well that it is. Enough times in business, things change and everyone says, oh yeah, we had no way of knowing that was going to happen. Those changes are unpredictable and so you just deal with them. But when it's clearly predictable, that's the part I think that is more difficult for us in IT to deal with. And I think that's the whole point of vendors offering what's known as LTS, Long Term Support, for something, like "We promise we're not going to pull the rug out from under you for x years." Josh: 15:09 I want to make sure that we understand or at least that we agree that IT is not religion. Religion is not IT. There's certainly some overlap and are dogmatic beliefs on both sides of of the row. But I tweeted earlier today and I'm going to read it, "A gentle reminder that you are more than your nationality, favorite sports team, political party, or religious ideology. Be more than the sum of your parts. Be better than your weakest part. Be human." And I think that that applies to IT as well. You might have been the person who was responsible for gateway computers, probably cause you liked cows. I don't know. Just because that is what you've always done doesn't mean it's what you always need to do. You are more than capable of transitioning and learning something new. And a coworker of mine, Zach, if you're listening, shout out, he will, he will admit that I am not a great scripter, but I'm also more than capable of being taught how to be an okay scripter, you know? Under his tutelage, I've become kind of useful with powershell and I have even remotely built some shell scripts recently. So it's possible you can be something more than what you thought you always were. And that is really a beautiful thing, both in IT and in humanity. Leon: 16:31 And I've written about that in the past. And I probably will again in response to this podcast about that's actually not what you are. You might be, you know, a Cisco IOS command line jockey. You might be, you know, you might know everything there is to know about the Apple platform, whatever it is, but that's not actually what makes you a great IT professional. What makes you a great IT professional is your sensibilities. The fact that you understand how networking works, how hardware reacts with software, how architecture and design and you know an idea converts itself and moves through the pipeline into an actual product. Those are the things that make you a great IT practitioner and those things will persist even when the foundational platform - software or hardware - change. But again, just to drive it back again, the point is that, you know, we know things change, but when we are told something is not going to change and then it does, what do we do about that? So my question does our perspective, our outlook, whether it's religious or philosophical, whether it's moral or ethical, does that make it easier or harder to deal with? Kinds of events that you know, we promise it won't change it than it does. On the one hand, I could see someone saying that if you are heavily religious, you come from a strongly dogmatic frame of view, then you carry with you baggage of what "forever" means. And when a vendor or my employer says "It's never going to change, we are standardizing on x," and then they change. That can feel like a betrayal because I brought along, "No, no wait, you said the f word, "forever", so you know that means something to me and you just broke your promise." That could be much harder than somebody who might not have, like I said, that baggage coming along with it. I don't know what, what's your take on that? Kate: 18:36 We talked about this a little bit before, but what I found was interesting about that question was that as an atheist, I obviously have a somewhat fluid view of, you know, how the world works and how things are. I am also, technology-wise the quintessential early adopter. I'm the first day that it's available. I will consume it, upgraded, download it, in any way that I can get the new stuff. I'm on board. Josh: 19:03 So I think that that makes you Kate an IT relativist. There's this great thing within Mormonism about moral relativism and how it's such a bad thing, which that is a whole different discussion, but I think that the very best IT practitioners are those who can balance a bit of that. Conservativis... can't say that word... Conservativism plus that moral relativism within IT that you see the changes, you're willing to bring them in, but you do it in a way that requires that you parse them through your personal and your community experience and then say, "Yes, that's something we actually want to bring in to our enterprise. We're willing to adopt it." You need to know about it so that you can also say to someone who has read a shiny brochure or seen a vendor pitch about how amazing a product is and say, "Nope actually that's not something that we want to do and here's why." And being able to speak to a multitude of points. I think makes us great IT practitioners, if you are just that sole sourced individual who only knows about one technology, you're going to find yourself in some IT challenges. I've got a great friend, who coincidentally is also ex Mormon and his name is also Josh. Interesting point. It's interesting for me to listen to him talk about his challenges within his career. He's a great DBA. He is actually not just a DBA, but he designs databases and he's worked on a bunch of different areas and he has really struggled because he thinks that he's only in that data space. And I want to say to him, "Hey Josh," which is a little weird cause I'm calling my name, "Hey Josh, you need to understand that you're better than what you think that you are because first, you're willing to look at your career and figure out the parts that are really useful for you and you know where your weaknesses are." That, for me, is the big part. Are we willing to look at what we're doing today and understand both its strengths and weaknesses and then leverage the strengths and minimize the weaknesses by adopting other technologies? It would be kind of like me saying, "Hey, Mormonism is still really awesome," - which I do think. There are some wonderful things about Mormonism, but I also am willing to adopt some ideologies from Judaism. Thank you Leon. And I'm also willing and very open to adopting that moral relativism that comes along with atheism and other non traditional religious beliefs." Leon: 21:36 I definitely think, Kate, that we have a new topic idea on the horizon, which is whether or not being staunchly religious makes you more or less likely to be an early adopter of technology. I think as an IT person, I really want to solve that problem because I like new technology and I would hate to think that I'm predisposed as an Orthodox Jew to like not want to do the things. Of course I could be an outlier. I could. So Josh, to your point, I think that that IT is not like religion in the sense that no matter how strongly a vendor or an organization says that something is never going to change, it's gonna. Right? Yeah. I mean we just know that that's the nature of IT, is that things are going to change and probably sooner rather than later when you look at the long game. However, I think one of the things that makes this issue, you know - "It's not going to change," and then it does - similar in both religious and IT contexts is what we as people hope and expect from that event. Which is, I think, that whoever's making the change needs to be transparent about it. I think they need to be intellectually honest about it. And they need to be consistent about it. And what I mean by those things is that they need to say that "This change is happening. We saw it coming, even if we couldn't tell you at the time, but we're telling you now that we knew it was coming. We just had to," you know, whatever it was, the merger was coming, but we couldn't say anything because blah, blah, blah, legal, blah, blah, blah, Wall Street, whatever. Right? Um, it needs to be intellectually honest. We're doing this because it supports our brand values. It supports our corporate goals. It, you know, whatever. And it needs to be consistent. And I think most of all, if people were hurt by that first statement, this is the way it is. "This is the way it's always going to be." And then it changes. And people were hurt. You know, an example that happened a couple of jobs back for me: $5 million investment in a data center, building it out, putting tons of hardware in there, and then they moved to the cloud. What are you kidding me? Like, we just bought all this stuff and the company did say, "We know we hired a lot of you for your depth expertise in on-premises data center operations. And now we're asking, you - we're in fact demanding - that you move to a cloud based model. We know that some of you are going to be upset by this. Some of you may want to leave. We're going to support you in whatever decision you make, but this is the direction we're going. That kind of statement makes it a lot easier to accept the, "We never will... Oops. We are" kind of thing. And I think just to tie it back to our opening topic. I would hope, although I'm not in the community, but I would hope that a statement is made to the families that were hurt within the Mormon community for, you know, the years of being called, you know, apostates and all that stuff, and say "We're really sorry about this and we're going to do what we can to make it better." I would hope that that statement would be forthcoming. I guess time is going to tell. Josh: 24:55 Time will absolutely will. Unfortunately Mormonism does not have a history of apologizing. The unfortunate reality of some of the current leadership has come out specifically and said that the church does not ask for, nor does it offer apologies. Kate: 25:12 A long, long time ago I worked for MCI Worldcom and, if you recall, it is now Verizon business. It was sold to Verizon about 18 months after the CEO promised all of the employees that he was not looking to sell the company. MCI is also a huge company. It had definitely been in the works. So your comment about honesty really struck home with me. Nobody likes to be blindsided by change, but even more, nobody likes to be lied to about it. Josh: 25:45 Thanks for making time for us this week. To hear more of Technically Religious, visit our website, technicallyreligious.com, where you can find our other episodes, leave us ideas for future discussions and connect with us on social media. Kate: 25:59 To paraphrase and old Greek guy, "the only constant in IT is change."

This week, Cari and Kelsae discuss the recent changes to the temple ceremony which remove some of the most overt sexism. This is clearly cause ol’ Rusty has the red phone to Jesus and not because of the work of exMos, progressive Mormons, or, oh I dunno, Ordain Women, am I right? Tangents abound, as does rage at anyone telling anybody to give the Mormon cult any kind of credit for these changes. For full show notes and links, go to: https://www.nomanknowsmyherstory.com/episodes/058

Early Mormon women blessed by laying on of hands.  If the practice returned, would that be good enough for the Ordain Women movement, or do they require ordination?  Must women be ordained?  Nancy Ross and Sara Hanks answer that question. https://youtu.be/ImDlzBnipWc GT: Are you still a member of Ordain Women? Nancy: I mean, I still have a profile of a website, and I'm still supportive of the organization. GT: And you're being ordained this Sunday [July 29] anyway. Nancy:  That's right. Sara: Ordained woman. Nancy: Yes, Ordain Women! We're doing it. GT: You're going to be ordained. My question is actually two questions. Number one, what if in say October General Conference, President Nelson got up and said, "Okay, we're going to go back to the idea that women can lay hands on the sick like they used to do even into the early 20th century. Would that be good enough for Ordain Women? Or, do you think that women still need to be ordained to priesthood office? Nancy:  Do you want to comment? Sara:  I would say nothing less than full inclusion and full opportunity for every member of the church would be quote unquote sufficient. Any step in the direction of progress on any subject, in any community is great. Any step. Great. GT:  So you would welcome the laying on of hands. Sara: Oh, I would welcome that completely. I would be so excited about that. I mean I would be overjoyed. But in terms of Ordain Women as an organization, I think they chose their name very specifically. It's Ordain Women, not like give women--I mean, it would be a very long name, but it's not like Give Women More Opportunities. It's Ordain Women. LDS women out there--would you like to be ordained, or are you happy with the status quo?  Check out our conversation, as well as our previous conversations! Do LDS women want more opportunities, or must they be ordained? Nancy Ross & Sara Hanks answer that question.   209: The F-word: Feminism 208: Nancy & Sara's Spiritual Journey (Ross-Hanks) 207: Mormon Feminist Successes & Setbacks (Ross-Hanks)

Dr. Nancy Ross and Sara Hanks, co-authors of "Where We Must Stand" discuss their experiences blogging at Feminist Mormon Housewives, and putting together a book on the first 10 years of the blog.  They discusses some of the feminist successes & setbacks between 2012-2014.  What were some of the successes in pushing for change within the LDS Church? https://youtu.be/c_uF51IVmZg Nancy:But at that time the community was all about activism, or so much of the community conversation turned to activism. Really. In the middle of 2012, and this is covered in the book, there's a little activist action to try and better understand different temples' policies with regard to women and young women doing baptisms for the dead while menstruating. And so, there are a bunch of phone calls made and they try to get information about what different temples policies are with the idea that, you might show up at a temple and they might have a different policy and that might make people feel excluded or embarrassed. Sara: Embarrassed. Yeah. Nancy: And so that happens in the middle of 2012. By the end of 2012, we've got the first "Wear pants to church day," and then that's followed by, "Let Women Pray," and the advent of "Let Women Pray was it's own activist event to try and ask church leaders to let a woman pray in general conference which happened with Jean Stephens, which is super exciting. Sara: Yeah. Nancy:And then we've got the arrival of Ordain Women in the Spring of 2013. And so leading up to Kate Kelly's excommunication, like from the middle of 2012 to the middle of 2014, there was just so much momentum in the community for like, Hey, we can change things. With the temple baptisms issue after all of this information gathering, someone was able to kind of make a connection further up the chain in the church and then the church issued a clarification to say no, we need all the temples to allow women young women to participate in baptisms regardless of whether or not they're menstruating. And that was, that felt huge. Concerning Kate Kelly's excommunicationin 2014, Sara: One part of the feeling was just so much shock, because not only had we felt really hopeful for the possibilities of change, but we also kind of were under the impression as a community at large that with the advent of the Internet and so much attention being paid to the church and so much possibility for exposing problems or injustices that the church wouldn't take the sort of actions that they had taken when it came to Sonia Johnson in the 70's or the September Six in the early 90's or the, the professors at BYU who were censured. We thought, "They wouldn't because it would be too much of a risk. There would be too much backlash." Nancy: And it was also right in the middle of that Mormon moment. And the church had done the "I'm a Mormon" campaign. They had spent so much time, effort, energy and resources trying to make the church look good in the eyes of the public. Check out our conversation… Co-authors Sara Hanks, and Dr. Nancy Ross discuss their book "Where We Must Stand: Ten Years of Feminist Mormon Housewives." You might want to check out our other conversations on Women's studies. 189: Women Have Had Priesthood since 1843! (Quinn) 165:  Elder Oaks Groundbreaking Talk on Women & Priesthood(Stapley) 164:  The Mormon Priestess & Ordain Women (Stapley) 163:  Women Healers in LDS Temples (Stapley) 134: Role of Women in 4 American Religions (Bringhurst) 066: Women Will Not Hold Priesthood! (Vun Cannon) 049: Mormon Polyandry:  More Than One Husband? (Hales)

[paypal-donation] In our next conversation with Dr. Daniel Stone, we will discuss the similarities and differences between Bickertonite and Brighamite priesthood.  I was surprised to learn that they have been ordaining women since the 1860s! https://youtu.be/rUlMIBzHEjA Daniel: This is because of Joseph Smith Civil War prophecy, he's really seeing it. This is the approaching of the end times. Jesus Christ is coming back. This is the beginning of the apocalypse and eventually according to Joseph Smith's Civil War prophecy, it's going to encompass the whole earth, right? So, he has to ordain a Quorum of Twelve to kind of institute that fervent missionary effort to kind of bring people in because of the approaching calamities. And in 1863, a year after, they ordain a deaconess. And what's interesting is because you kind of see as they're ordaining deaconesses, they're also saying, well we need to have midwives in the church too. That's really important. So, you're starting to see a real emphasis on women ministering to the church because they really believe the end times are coming. It's going to get more and more serious and worse. So, midwives back then were much more trusted than doctors. So, they're kind of thinking pragmatically, okay, well if we're in destruction and there's no help for anything, we want to have midwives to help care for the wounded or people that are sick or people who are giving birth. Obviously, they were very trusted. So, they're trying to ordain deaconesses as a holy office, but calling or wanting to have midwives in the church to train them for the hopes of helping to minister to the church as well. It turns out they ordain women because of a biblical precedent! William Bickerton is very much a Christian primitivist or a Christian restorationist like Joseph Smith. He's trying to look at the scriptures literally. So, they get the idea from deaconess because of Phoebe and some of the others that are mentioned, you know, where they use that Greek word Diakonia I believe it is, where basically means deaconess. So, they are a member of the ministry. So, they're looking at the scriptures and they're really scrutinizing, and they see prophetesses in the scriptures. You know, even in the New Testament there were prophetesses. So, he's looking at this thing. Women can have this power of the Holy Ghost to move. And if they see that women were, you know, even though brief, brief mentions of it in the New Testament Check out our conversation…. William Bickerton noticed Phoebe was a deaconess in the Bible and instituted that office in the 1860s.   Don't forget to check out our other conversations with Daniel! 198: Bickerton Becomes Prophet 197: Sidney's Church Falls Apart 196: Rigdon/Spalding Manuscript Theory [paypal-donation]

Due to the news of Sam Young's excommunication, we are rereleasing episode 55 from February 2015. Sam Young organized "Protect LDS Children". You can find out more by going here: http://protectldschildren.org ..... This week the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has once again been in the news in regards to the excommunication of one of their own: this time it’s John Dehlin of Mormon Stories – only months after the excommunication of Kate Kelly of Ordain Women.  There have been lesser, yet still painful ramifications (losing callings, not being able to attain temple recommends, disfellowshipment, etc.) for members of the church on a global level as we struggle with both historical, doctrinal and social issues we may not all agree on.  This is having a significant impact in many stake, ward and family systems – with frustration, anger and relationship struggles becoming unfortunate, yet common happenings. On the evening of the news that John Dehlin was excommunicated, Natasha Helfer Parker, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, Joanna Brooks, Dan Wotherspoon, and Brian Dillman got together via Skype audio chat to discuss various ways they personally cope with the kinds of distress such things cause, and perspectives that help heal them in times of difficulty. Their sharing is this podcast episode, which is being co-released by Mormon Matters, Rational Faiths podcast, and Mormon Mental Health podcasts. How might we experience and understand our anger in healthy ways? How do we not let our emotions get the better of us and block out wider perspectives that likely would serve us better for the long haul? Can historical and sociological frameworks help us see these recent events in greater context, help us understand ways to move forward rather than repeat negative cycles? Are there larger spiritual or existential framings that can help us make peace with the tensions life and the many things we care about seem to constantly call upon us to bear? In a section led by Joanna Brooks, she refers to and describes this chart: Violence Cycle A poem for my brothers and sisters Please listen and then share your thoughts in the comments section below! Many thanks to The Lower Lights for the beautiful bumper music and to Brian Dillman for audio production of this podcast.

[paypal-donation] In 1992, Dr. Michael Quinn published an essay stating that women have priesthood, and have held the priesthood since 1843.  It was one of the reasons church leaders cited in excommunicating him.  This will be an interesting contrast to our conversation with Dr. Jonathan Stapley, who did not endorse the idea that women held priesthood.  Both Stapley agree that women don't hold priesthood office, but Quinn is bolder in his claims than Stapley. https://youtu.be/22EWuzGrQBA Michael: Women receive priesthood when it's conferred on them in the endowment, and I think that men do too, but they've already received it. They've received it separately as young men as 12-year-olds to prepare them for the endowment. Women don't need that kind of preparation. They are already spiritually endowed. GT: At least that is the stereotypical thinking. Michael: That's the stereotypical view. And I'm willing to adopt that because it's convenient to help people understand this issue that women have a preparation that is separate for the endowment than men do. From my conversation with Stapley, Jonathan:  there's no question that men and women have equal access to the power of God. So, women are recognized healers, for example.  They participate in the healing liturgy. Women perform anointings, and they seal anointings and they heal the sick and bless for comfort from the earliest days. Joseph Smith says this is of course, entirely appropriate activity for the Relief Society sisters to participate in, any women. Every church president after that says it's fine.  So this is a manifestation of God's power. I would say that women receive liturgical authority to perform those acts, but Joseph Smith never characterizes that as priesthood. Who do you think is right? I asked Quinn what he thought about the Ordain Women movement. GT:  Ok, so what do you think about Kate Kelly's movement with Ordain Women? Michael: I understand it. I don't support it. GT: You don't support it? Michael: No, I understand it and I don't think it's necessary for women to be ordained to an appendage. GT: Why not? Michael: Women don't need an appendage to have the priesthood. GT: They've already got the priesthood. Michael: They've got the priesthood. GT: But what about the idea, why couldn't a woman become a bishop? Lead a congregation? Michael: If those who preside over the appendages of these offices, which is what the president of the church does, he's the president of the high priesthood. He could change that. This was a fantastic conversation, and I hope you check it out! Dr. Michael Quinn says women hold priesthood through the temple endowment.  Women have priesthood since 1843! Don't miss our other conversations with Dr. Quinn…. 188: Translation by Joseph Smith & James Strang (Quinn) 187: LDS Succession Crisis (Quinn) 186: Quinn on Hofmann (Quinn) 185: "The Church Makes No Distinction Between God & Mammon" (Quinn) 184: Would LDS Church Income Ever Support a Paid Ministry? (Quinn) 183: Are LDS Church Revenues really $50 Billion/Year? (Quinn) 182: Michael Quinn Discusses Deseret Hemp Company (Quinn) [paypal-donation] If you would like a transcript of this interview, Please become a monthly subscriber for just $10/month!  Just click the yellow subscribe button at Gospel  Tangents website, and I will send you a PDF of the interview (and future interviews.) For a paperback go to our Amazon Page:  https://amzn.to/2OTVCAv

In 2013, Ordain Women was founded to advocate for women’s ordination in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Within a few years, the group included thousands of activists, many of whom had never before taken action, and sparked a conversation that required church members as well as leadership to confront gender inequality within the institution. Kate Kelly is the woman behind it all. She grew up somewhat orthodox, served a mission for the church, and was later excommunicated in a fairly public way. In between it all, Kate became a human rights lawyer and is now a legal fellow at Columbia Law School’s Human Rights in the U.S. Project. She is fierce and outspoken about her commitment to women’s rights as human rights, which of course makes me love Kate even more. You can find Kate on Twitter at @Kate_Kelly_Esq. Learn more about Continuum at continuumcollective.org. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

In June 2014 Kate Kelly, the vocal spokesperson for Ordain Women, was excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for apostasy. Kate Kelly had led a high profile campaign including two actions on Temple Square in order to ask the President of the LDS Church to pray about whether or not women should be ordained.   This public petition that eventually included hundreds of women from around the world was met by a resounding silence and denial by the LDS leadership.  But it was Kate's excommunication that either catapulted women out of the church or aroused a new awareness in the faithful that the church they had thought of as benevolent had, in this case, acted vindictively and egregiously to support the supremacy of the patriarchy. Katie Langston, Nancy Ross and Brittany Mangleson, women who arrived at an impasse after the excommunication and chose to pursue ordination in other faith traditions join me to discuss the impact of Ordain Women on them and the Mormon feminist community.

[paypal-donation] In April 2014, Elder Oaks gave a sermon on women and priesthood.  Dr. Jonathan Stapley said this was no ordinary talk.  He called it theologically groundbreaking!  I was a bit surprised how revolutionary Stapley felt the sermon was.  It seemed to me to be a response to the Ordain Women movement which was asking for women to be allowed to attend the priesthood session of General Conference.  I saw the address under a different light than Jonathan. https://youtu.be/sznFXhm4wDA GT:  I remember just thinking, “Oh, this is just to placate the Kate Kelly people and to say, ‘Women, you've already got priesthood.  You just didn't know it yet.'”  But you're saying this is a theological change. ... Jonathan:  When Elder Oaks delivered that sermon, I was looking around like, does anyone else [recognize this?]  This is mind-blowing.  I couldn't believe it. And everyone else was just like, “Oh yeah, this is just Elder Oaks.”  Revolutions happen sometimes a very subtly apparently. ... Jonathan: It's certainly a linguistic shift and language frames our reality. So, it is certainly, for example, an interesting piece from Elder Oaks' sermon was he was quoting in many parts from a sermon that Joseph Fielding Smith gave to the Relief Society in a general Relief Society meeting.  And in this meeting Joseph Fielding was as I remember, the president of the Quorum of the Twelve at the time, discussed women's authority in the church and how they were heirs to a great heritage, but also heirs to authority and their capacity of the work in the Relief society and the temple. But he was quick to say, you have authority to do this work. You have authority in the temple, but authority is not the same thing as priesthood. Jonathan: And Elder Oaks takes this sermon he talks about, he quotes Joseph Fielding Smith, how women have this great authority in the church and this great heritage. And then he stops and says, what else can this authority be except priesthood? Right? So, it's this really wonderful kind of re-imagining of what these terms mean. At the same time, reaching to our past to grab hold of our past and make sure we're still connected, but also in very interesting and creative ways, refashioning it in a way that makes more sense for the present. Do you think Oaks talk was groundbreaking?  Let me know!  Check out our other conversations on women healers, Ordain Women, and click the video below to learn more about this conversation…. Elder Dallin Oaks gave a revolutionary sermon in April 2014 on women & priesthood. [paypal-donation]

[paypal-donation] In our next conversation with Dr. Jonathan Stapley, we'll talk about the Mormon idea of a priestess.  Of course, that inevitably leads to a discussion of the Ordain Women movement.  Would it be acceptable to Ordain Women if women could heal by laying on of hands, or do they want ecclesiastical authority? https://youtu.be/xuANpGUCKyU GT: The scriptures talk a little bit about a priestess.  Could you see an office of a priestess or if women became ordained, or would they still just be a priest? Jonathan:  Let me take a step back and frame that within the context of my book, what I would argue.  The term priestess is a function of what I call the cosmological priesthood of the temple. Look, I don't follow the theological assertions of, for example, the Ordain Women movement. So, I don't feel like I can fairly characterize what they're asserting.  But my sense is that they are asserting for an ecclesiastical parity. GT: That would be my hunch as well. Jonathan: And so I would argue that even though they might be referencing or they might point to evidence of the cosmological priesthood in the past, they would be pointing to that and making assertions about ecclesiastical priesthood bureaucracy at the present. And so, I think that it's important to carry, anytime that we're talking about the past and in the LDS tradition and the relation between women and the priesthood, we have to make those important distinctions between ecclesiastical and kind of temple cosmological priesthood dynamics.  And so, that being the case, I think there are lots of ways within the Mormon tradition that is faithful to the revelations and our historical development that can involve women more prominently in our ecclesiology and our liturgy than is currently present. I think that's a non-controversial statement to make. ... GT:  If, say in October General Conference, President Nelson got up and said, you know, we've studied a Jonathan Stapley's work. We looked back at these ritual healings that women used to do. We're bringing that back. Do you think that would be good enough for people like were the Ordain Women movement? What do you think?  Check out Jonathan's answer, as well as the rest of our conversation on the best source for Mormon history, science, and theology….  (And don't forget to check out part 1 and part 2!)  [paypal-donation] If the LDS Church ordained women, would they be priests or priestesses?

On this episode, the Female Relief Society of Nauvoo is finally established. We walk through the set and setting of Nauvoo in early 1842 being built on nothing more than credit. Men are the providers, while women are tasked with home chores, raising children, and maybe doing a small money-making hobby on the side to keep the house afloat. We discuss women’s roles in 19th-century America and how early feminism caused small movements to rise long before the official beginning of the Women’s Era. We read through the meeting minutes of the foundation of the Female Relief Society of Nauvoo when Emma Hale Smith was elected President. We speculate on Joseph’s intentions when it was first organized and opine on how stagnant and solidified Mormon doctrine today is in comparison to Nauvoo Mormonism of 1842. What does it take to change Mormon doctrine today? We invite on Kate Kelly to discuss her history with the Ordain Women movement.   Links:   Relief Society minute book http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/nauvoo-relief-society-minute-book/1#ft-historical-intro   History of Relief Society http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Relief_Society   Joseph Smith Journal May 1842 http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/journal-december-1841-december-1842/25#source-note   Ordain Women into priesthood https://ordainwomen.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/34WomenandPriesthoodQuotes.pdf   Masonic Adoption rite http://www.masonicdictionary.com/adoptive.html   Mormon Law of Adoption https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/law-adoption-one-phase-development-mormon-concept-salvation-1830-1900   Emmeline B. Wells A Voice for Mormon Women by Carol Cornwall Madsen https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1R_F9XDNepwuxB_KJUeuTmy895QDNqPtx   Women in Masonry http://www.masonicinfo.com/women.htm   History of Women’s Freemasonry http://womenfreemasonusa.com/history.html   Order of the Eastern Star Robert Morris 1850 https://repository.library.brown.edu/studio/item/bdr:411520/   Kate Kelly http://www.katekellyesq.com/   The Fern Foundation Short Creek Service Project http://thefernfoundation.org/donate   Show Links: Website http://nakedmormonismpodcast.com Twitter @NakedMormonism Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Naked-Mormonism/370003839816311 Patreon http://patreon.com/nakedmormonism Music by Jason Comeau http://aloststateofmind.com/ Show Artwork http://weirdmormonshit.com/ Legal Counsel http://patorrez.com/

In her 2014 book, “Women at Church: Magnifying LDS Women's Local Impact,” Neylan McBaine examined the roles of Mormon women in their congregations and suggested paths toward more gender equity within the global faith. Why not, for instance, have teenage girls hold the microphone at testimony meetings? How about letting young women take part in what was then called visiting teaching? Why shouldn’t mothers be allowed to hold their infants during formal baby blessings at church? And why aren’t husband-and-wife teams who oversee LDS missions co-presidents? Well, some changes have occurred since her book’s release. Lots of others, McBaine says, are needed. Hear her thoughts on feminism, Ordain Women, the Mormon #MeToo moment and more in the latest edition of “Mormon Land.”

Kate Kelly visits the Blacksite and gives us her story about growing up Mormon, starting Ordain Women, and being excommunicated. The government prevented a shutdown! HOORAY! Apparently the “art of the deal” is giving in almost immediately. Discussion about the VOX article regarding Trump’s Kleptocracy. The Activist Agenda covers Utah Women Unite, Women’s Democratic Meeting, and the upcoming State Black Women’s event! Listen on Stitcher or iTunes or Libsyn. Just use the colored widget on the left!

Some view the Church's teaching on the ordination of women as sexist. The Church often perceives this to be the result of "sexual relativism" whereby we are affected by a culture who defines truths according to emotion and desires, rather than the ontological nature of God's creation. Is our sexuality something trivial, objective, or is it all subjective? According to the Church, our subjectivity needs to be aligned to God's design for us as male and female. In regard to the priesthood, Jesus presents his priesthood to the world as that of a Husband in love with the Church, His wife. Therefore, if being a husband is important, only men can be priests to be an effective sign of Christ the Priest-groom

Welcome to Celestial Sex, hosted by Chris Duce and produced by Colin Hatch, where we have frank and open conversations about sex in the context of religious/Mormon upbringing. In this episode we were lucky to talk to Kate Kelly about her childhood in Oregon, her relationship with her parents and grandparents, her work as the founder of Ordain Women, her sexual development in her teen years and time at BYU, activism, her marriage, divorce, and dating life after being excommunicated. A huge thank you to Kate for speaking with us! Kate Kelly can be found on Twitter @kate_kelly_esq You can email Celestial Sex at celestialsexpodcast@gmail.com, follow us on Twitter @celestialsexpod and call us with questions and stories at (YES) 6969-LDS If you'd like to donate to the show you can Venmo @chrisduce

Kate Kelly visits the Blacksite and gives us her story about growing up Mormon, Ordain Women, and excommunication. The government prevented a shutdown! HOORAY! Apparently the art of the deal is giving in almost immediately. Discussion about the VOX article about the Trump's Kleptocracy. The Activist Agenda covers Utah Women Unite, Women's Democratic Meeting, and the upcoming State Black Women's event! 

In this episode, an all-star panel reviews a recently leaked presentation created by the quorum of the twelve apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The presentation is entitled "Area Business Weekends," is dated December 8, 2015, and lays out the process for local LDS stakes and areas to request special training meetings from the LDS quorum of the 12 (e.g., Boise Rescue, Elder Ballard's Young Single Adult stake in Utah County). Within the presentation the LDS Q12 reveals its view on the external causes for people leaving the LDS church, which explicitly name individuals such as John Dehlin, Denver Snuffer, and Robert Norman, along with other broader trends, movements, and ideas such as secularism, Ordain Women, support for same-sex marriage (entitled "Disagree with current policies"), chastity, pornography, lack of commitment, failure to observe the sabbath, those fascinated with the "last days/end of world" (i.e., Preppers/Julie Rowe), "false prophets," and anyone who feels they need "something more" from the church. In no instance does the Quorum of the 12 demonstrate introspection as to what they or the church might be doing to contribute to disaffection from the Mormon church. Today's panel includes Dr. Gina Colvin (A Thoughtful Faith Podcast and KiwiMormon), Lindsay Hansen Park (Sunstone), Pastor John Hamer (Toronto Community of Christ), Jesse Stay, and Ryan McKnight (Mormon Leaks).

When Isabella Parker (Witchita, Kansas) was 14 years old she joined her school's Gay Straight Alliance and she submitted a profile to Ordain Women.  At the same time she was also called to be the Mia Maid Class President.  When her bishop discovered Isabella's social justice activities, things changed dramatically for her and her family.

It's Tuesday and you might be thinking to yourself, “what the hell is this new episode of Utah Outcasts doing on my podcast player?”, and let's face it, ever since we've moved onto Wednesdays I've loved having extra time to get shows done, but considering today of all days is election day, we feel like […]

In many ways, women are more religious than men, the purveyors of faith in their communities. They show up for services more often, and take more responsibility for passing on faith to children. Yet they are often denied leadership roles, a voice and even the respect afforded to men in their traditions. How do they cope? What happens when they can’t reconcile their religious identities with their respect for themselves as women? Moderator: Lauren Markoe, National Reporter, Religion News Service. Speakers: Chani Gettler, Owner, Inspirational Living, Inc; Kate Kelly, Founder, Ordain Women; Human rights attorney; Pam Palmer, Activist; Jennifer Zobair, Author.

Atlanta based attorney Bryndis Roberts is the chair-elect of Ordain Women.  In 2008 Bryndis joined the LDS church from the Black Baptist church, served for a number of years as a  Relief Society President in an inner city Atlanta Ward  soon discovering several concerns with gender inequality in Mormon leadership.  In this podcast Bryndis talks about why she is so passionate about women's ordination.  We discuss the hope that she believes gender equality will offer the church in terms of its spiritual health and survival.

In this Mormon Stories Live! episode recorded at Club/Cafe at 50 West on March 9, 2016, I interviewed Kate Kelly about the following: Life since her excommunication, including her divorce from Neil Ransom and her new relationship with Jack Waters. Thoughts on the Ordain Women movement -- past, present and future. Kate's new position with Planned Parenthood, which includes advocating for: The basic role/function of Planned Parenthood Women's Reproductive Rights (e.g., abortion) Contraception and safe sex        

Ordain Women sets a new, moderate tone; Russell Stevenson on income inequality; Mormon conspiracy theories on Antonin Scalia; making church music better.

In this episode of TWIH, we talk to Debra Jenson, Chairperson of the organization Ordain Women, which seeks to change the LDS church’s stance on ordaining women (and girls) into the priesthood. Debra gives us an overview of Mormonism and what it was like to grow up as a young girl in the faith. We also talk about what it is like to be a female parent in an organization where your role in the spiritual life of the community is limited and  why it’s important to the life of the church to include women in the same sacraments as men. Note: This episode was recorded before the announcement by the LDS church about LGBTQA parents and the restrictions of baptizing their children. This post from the Ordain Women website discusses this decision. Debra Jenson is from Ogden, Utah and is the current Chairperson of the Ordain Women Executive Board. She writes: “I am lucky to be married to a wonderful man I don’t deserve and we have three great kids. I love movies, biking and swimming, and Neil Diamond! I am finishing a PhD in Communication and work for a non-profit organization that serves people with intellectual disabilities and I serve in the Relief Society Presidency. I have been an active Mormon since I was 13: I came for Girl’s Camp and ended up staying for the gospel. The knowledge that I am a daughter of a Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother who love me gave me the courage and confidence to try just about anything, from competing in triathlons to parenting. I have struggled with the role of women in our church since I came here as teen. Now that I have children of my own—a teenage son and two Primary-age daughters—I see this inequality in even more startling ways. It is increasingly difficult, with each passing year, for me to explain to my daughters why they will never be old enough to pass the sacrament. I want my daughters to be full and faithful servants: walking to collect fast-offerings or cleaning up the sacrament table after church. And I dream of standing next to my husband to give a parents’ blessing together. I am a Mormon and I believe women should be ordained.” Links Email: debrajenson@hotmail.com Ordain Women Website The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

Our memories of Pres. Boyd K. Packer; new push for Sabbath observance; Kate Kelly out at Ordain Women; Bryce Harper gets nude; and more!

Kristy Money is impressive on so many levels. She graduated from BYU at age 19, completing a Ph.D. in counseling psychology at age 25 (dissertation on LDS suicide) She serves on the Ordain Women board of directors as a co-founder of OW, assembled the famous "6 discussions" for Ordain Women, and is the host of Ordain Women podcast. She has authored three incredibly influential op-eds for the Salt Lake Tribune: LDS Church should make clear Smith was wrong to take 14-year-old wife Think, seminary teachers, before acceding to church essay on Joseph Smith’s polygamy LDS Church should go further to disavow racist priesthood ban She is the creator of the http://voicesoflove.org project (in support of same-sex love within Mormonism), which is a response to Ty Mansfield's Voice of Hope project (promoting either mixed-orientation marriages or celibacy). She is currently serving on the Mormon Mental Health Association Board of Directors. Her journey has been featured in the New York Times and in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution She is currently facing church discipline for her efforts with Ordain Women, and for speaking openly in her congregation about matters of racial injustice. In this 3-part interview we discuss her early years growing up in the church in South Carolina, her intellectual awakening at BYU, her experiences as a psychologist, and her various efforts of Mormon activism, culminating in her now being silenced by her bishop, and threatened with church discipline.  She also discusses the incredibly high personal price she's paid for her work, which has led to almost complete isolation from her parents and siblings.  

Kristy Money is impressive on so many levels. She graduated from BYU at age 19, completing a Ph.D. in counseling psychology at age 25 (dissertation on LDS suicide) She serves on the Ordain Women board of directors as a co-founder of OW, assembled the famous "6 discussions" for Ordain Women, and is the host of Ordain Women podcast. She has authored three incredibly influential op-eds for the Salt Lake Tribune: LDS Church should make clear Smith was wrong to take 14-year-old wife Think, seminary teachers, before acceding to church essay on Joseph Smith’s polygamy LDS Church should go further to disavow racist priesthood ban She is the creator of the http://voicesoflove.org project (in support of same-sex love within Mormonism), which is a response to Ty Mansfield's Voice of Hope project (promoting either mixed-orientation marriages or celibacy). She is currently serving on the Mormon Mental Health Association Board of Directors. Her journey has been featured in the New York Times and in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution She is currently facing church discipline for her efforts with Ordain Women, and for speaking openly in her congregation about matters of racial injustice. In this 3-part interview we discuss her early years growing up in the church in South Carolina, her intellectual awakening at BYU, her experiences as a psychologist, and her various efforts of Mormon activism, culminating in her now being silenced by her bishop, and threatened with church discipline.  She also discusses the incredibly high personal price she's paid for her work, which has led to almost complete isolation from her parents and siblings.  

Kristy Money is impressive on so many levels. She graduated from BYU at age 19, completing a Ph.D. in counseling psychology at age 25 (dissertation on LDS suicide) She serves on the Ordain Women board of directors as a co-founder of OW, assembled the famous "6 discussions" for Ordain Women, and is the host of Ordain Women podcast. She has authored three incredibly influential op-eds for the Salt Lake Tribune: LDS Church should make clear Smith was wrong to take 14-year-old wife Think, seminary teachers, before acceding to church essay on Joseph Smith’s polygamy LDS Church should go further to disavow racist priesthood ban She is the creator of the http://voicesoflove.org project (in support of same-sex love within Mormonism), which is a response to Ty Mansfield's Voice of Hope project (promoting either mixed-orientation marriages or celibacy). She is currently serving on the Mormon Mental Health Association Board of Directors. Her journey has been featured in the New York Times and in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution She is currently facing church discipline for her efforts with Ordain Women, and for speaking openly in her congregation about matters of racial injustice. In this 3-part interview we discuss her early years growing up in the church in South Carolina, her intellectual awakening at BYU, her experiences as a psychologist, and her various efforts of Mormon activism, culminating in her now being silenced by her bishop, and threatened with church discipline.  She also discusses the incredibly high personal price she's paid for her work, which has led to almost complete isolation from her parents and siblings.  

Dr. Gina Colvin is an essential progressive Mormon voice in 2015 for many reasons: She is a "multi-generation life long Mormon" with a multi-racial/international perspective on Mormonism.  Specifically, she is a New Zealander of Māori, English, Irish, Welsh, German and French descent. She is a professor (i.e., lecturer) at the University of Canterbury, with an emphasis on "the history and future of ideas." She is an insightful thinker and writer, and writes for a fantastic blog called KiwiMormon.  She also hosts the A Thoughtful Faith podcast. She is an important and somewhat fearless voice for progressive Mormon thought, and advocates very publicly and strongly for issues such as female ordination (serving on the Ordain Women board), same-sex marriage, and intellectual freedom within the LDS Church.  She is also a staunch opponent of polygamy (including Section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants), and of the recent round of excommunications within the LDS Church. While retaining her activity in the LDS Church, she is an unflinching supporter of "Mormon heresy," and openly expresses doubt and/or disbelief regarding various orthodox LDS teachings including the idea of an anthropomorphic God, the LDS Church as the "One True Church," exclusive LDS priesthood authority, and the historicity of the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham. She also has an incredibly fascinating story, which includes an adolescence of considerable trouble-making, a scandalous early divorce from her own bishop/husband, and several other stories of general delight and intrigue. This is Gina's story.  I am certain that you will enjoy it immensely.

Dr. Gina Colvin is an essential progressive Mormon voice in 2015 for many reasons: She is a "multi-generation life long Mormon" with a multi-racial/international perspective on Mormonism.  Specifically, she is a New Zealander of Māori, English, Irish, Welsh, German and French descent. She is a professor (i.e., lecturer) at the University of Canterbury, with an emphasis on "the history and future of ideas." She is an insightful thinker and writer, and writes for a fantastic blog called KiwiMormon.  She also hosts the A Thoughtful Faith podcast. She is an important and somewhat fearless voice for progressive Mormon thought, and advocates very publicly and strongly for issues such as female ordination (serving on the Ordain Women board), same-sex marriage, and intellectual freedom within the LDS Church.  She is also a staunch opponent of polygamy (including Section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants), and of the recent round of excommunications within the LDS Church. While retaining her activity in the LDS Church, she is an unflinching supporter of "Mormon heresy," and openly expresses doubt and/or disbelief regarding various orthodox LDS teachings including the idea of an anthropomorphic God, the LDS Church as the "One True Church," exclusive LDS priesthood authority, and the historicity of the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham. She also has an incredibly fascinating story, which includes an adolescence of considerable trouble-making, a scandalous early divorce from her own bishop/husband, and several other stories of general delight and intrigue. This is Gina's story.  I am certain that you will enjoy it immensely.

Carson Calderwood is an LDS dentist and father of four living in Maple Valley, Washington.  He served an LDS mission in Argentina, married his wife, Marisa, in an LDS temple, recently served as an LDS seminary teacher in Maple valley for two years, and served faithfully in the LDS church for almost two decades.  After experiencing significant questions and doubts a few years go, Carson realized how many local LDS church members were struggling over matters of faith, and began trying to help local members of his ward and stake find joy and healing amidst their LDS faith crises. After showing public support for Ordain Women, and after publicly expressing his doubts about several LDS church truth claims (e.g., polygamy, polyandry, Book of Mormon and Abraham historicity), Carson is now being charged with apostasy by the LDS Church, and by his Maple Valley, Washington stake president.  A disciplinary council for Carson is set to be scheduled within the next few days or weeks.   This is Carson's story, wherein he explains why he objects to LDS disciplinary councils for apostasy, and why he would prefer to be excommunicated than to resign his LDS membership and walk away quietly.

Most and least bible-minded cities in America, Colorado bakery refuses to make offensive cake, Vatican finds symbolism in balloons, family commits suicide to avoid the coming apocalypse, Ordain Women (not the Mormon ones), a priest takes Burke the Jerk’s advice, and the Mormons hold a press conference.

Where would Margaret Toscano start if she was asked to reform the Mormon Church? Listen in as Margaret joins Bob, Chelsea, and Glenn to talk about gender roles, activism, the Ordain Women movement, faith, spirituality, LDS Temple ceremonies,  Heavenly Mother, whether or not there should be a separate priesthood for women, and a bunch of other really interesting stuff.

So often the conversation in the Mormon moment is dominated by white  men and women who are both dominant numerically in the church, but have also claimed the space at the heart of contemporary LDS cultural debates. In this episode I discuss the dilemmas facing women of colour in Mormonism with Bryndis Roberts and Jennifer Gonzalez.  Both are busy women both in the church and in their legal professions.  Bryndis is a relatively new member of the church who lives in Atlanta, Georgia and serves as a Relief Society President.  Jennifer Gonzalez works in immigration law and has served most recently in the Young Women organization.   Both women are active participants in the 'Feminist Mormon Women of Color' - FEMWOC group.  Bryndis is on the Executive Board of Ordain Women.  

In this three-part series we interview Neil Ransom (Kate Kelly's husband, and Ph.D. candidate in anthropology) and we speak with Kate about her excommunication and the aftermath. Some of the fascinating tidbits we explore: Neil's early years growing up in Africa How Neil's mission, along with his attending BYU-Idaho, actually turned him into a progressive Mormon How Kate and Neil met (their love story), and what Neil loves most about Kate What Neil is researching for his Ph.D. (hint....it's super cool) Has Neil experienced a faith crisis? Who "wears the pants" in Kate/Neil's marriage...also what are the traits of a "real man" according to Neil and Kate  :) Are Kate/Neil planning to have kiddos? Kate's detailed account of her interactions with church leaders prior to her excommunication (in response to allegations of dishonesty on her part) A deep dive into Kate's beliefs re: Mormonism, Book of Mormon historicity, etc. Kate's plans for Ordain Women post-excommunication And most importantly....Why does Neil wear that funky hat?  :)

In this three-part series we interview Neil Ransom (Kate Kelly's husband, and Ph.D. candidate in anthropology) and we speak with Kate about her excommunication and the aftermath. Some of the fascinating tidbits we explore: Neil's early years growing up in Africa How Neil's mission, along with his attending BYU-Idaho, actually turned him into a progressive Mormon How Kate and Neil met (their love story), and what Neil loves most about Kate What Neil is researching for his Ph.D. (hint....it's super cool) Has Neil experienced a faith crisis? Who "wears the pants" in Kate/Neil's marriage...also what are the traits of a "real man" according to Neil and Kate  :) Are Kate/Neil planning to have kiddos? Kate's detailed account of her interactions with church leaders prior to her excommunication (in response to allegations of dishonesty on her part) A deep dive into Kate's beliefs re: Mormonism, Book of Mormon historicity, etc. Kate's plans for Ordain Women post-excommunication And most importantly....Why does Neil wear that funky hat?  :)

In this three-part series we interview Neil Ransom (Kate Kelly's husband, and Ph.D. candidate in anthropology) and we speak with Kate about her excommunication and the aftermath. Some of the fascinating tidbits we explore: Neil's early years growing up in Africa How Neil's mission, along with his attending BYU-Idaho, actually turned him into a progressive Mormon How Kate and Neil met (their love story), and what Neil loves most about Kate What Neil is researching for his Ph.D. (hint....it's super cool) Has Neil experienced a faith crisis? Who "wears the pants" in Kate/Neil's marriage...also what are the traits of a "real man" according to Neil and Kate  :) Are Kate/Neil planning to have kiddos? Kate's detailed account of her interactions with church leaders prior to her excommunication (in response to allegations of dishonesty on her part) A deep dive into Kate's beliefs re: Mormonism, Book of Mormon historicity, etc. Kate's plans for Ordain Women post-excommunication And most importantly....Why does Neil wear that funky hat?  :)

Kelly, a recently excommunicated Mormon feminist, is the founder of Ordain Women. Though she has attracted significant media attention she still remains a bit of an enigma. A staunch apologist for the fundamentals of Mormon theology she holds doggedly to the doctrines of continuing revelation and open cannon. At the same time she is an unapologetic feminist, an international human rights lawyer, and remains deeply concerned about questions of justice. In this interview with Gina Colvin, Kelly talks about her feminist awakenings, the development of Ordain Women, her church discipline and her hopes for the future. An archetypal idealist Kelly's irrepressible optimism and faith shines. For Kelly the question of equal rights and ordination for women are issues that are far from settled. Kelly's thoughtful faith is reflected in her belief that her excommunication doesn't mean the end for her and others' pursuit for equity and fairness in the church. Rather, her excommunication signals that the conversation is merely at a beginning.

On this inaugural episode of Mormon News Review we have: Kate Kelly (founder of Ordain Women) discussing the LDS church's recent response to their attempts to attend the upcoming priesthood session of LDS general conference. Panel: Ralph Hancock (Right), Tom Grover (Middle), and Heather Olson Beal (Left) discussing: Ordain Women, including the LDS church's decision today to publicly broadcast the priesthood session of general conference. Steve and Barb Young's recent presentations at the LDS/Affirmation conference. The LDS church's response to upcoming same-sex marriage legislation in Hawaii. The LDS church's new "Religious Freedom" initiative.

To conclude our series on the Ordain Women project, we bring together Kate Kelly, Heather Olson Beal, Neylan McBaine and Sara Vranes for a concluding dialogue.

On April 5th, 2014 Ordain Women will again be seeking entrance into the LDS General Conference Priesthood session. Details can be found here. In this episode we interview Nadine Hansen, Kimberly Brinkerhoff, Katie Hyde, and Debra Jenson about their participation in Ordain Women.

To conclude our series on the Ordain Women project, we bring together Kate Kelly, Heather Olson Beal, Neylan McBaine and Sara Vranes for a concluding dialogue.

Part 2 of a 2-part series wherein Fiona Givens, Maxine Hanks, Margaret Young, and Neylan McBain discuss alternative Feminist approaches to the Ordain Women movement.

Part 1 of a 2-part series wherein Fiona Givens, Maxine Hanks, Margaret Young, and Neylan McBain discuss alternative Feminist approaches to the Ordain Women movement.

In part 1 of a three-part series, we discuss the Ordain Women-planned event on 10/5/2013 to attend the LDS general conference priesthood session. Participants include Heather Olson Beal, Ann Marie Whittaker, Tinesha Zandamela, and Lorie Winder Stromberg - all of whom participated in Saturday’s event.

Two members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were recently notified that they potentially faced disciplinary councils which could result in excommunication from the church for apostasy. Kate Kelly is a human rights lawyer who founded Ordain Women, a group seeking access to the LDS church's all-male priesthood.

June 11 brought news that Kate Kelly, founder of Ordain Women, and John Dehlin, prominent public LDS voice through Mormon Stories and other podcasts and venues, have been called to face church disciplinary councils for "apostasy," as evidenced through their activism and public expressions of concern over various issues facing today's Mormonism. This episode is one in a series of short interviews of leading voices in online and public Mormonism conducted on June 12th by Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon.

June 11 brought news that Kate Kelly, founder of Ordain Women, and John Dehlin, prominent public LDS voice through Mormon Stories and other podcasts and venues, have been called to face church disciplinary councils for "apostasy," as evidenced through their activism and public expressions of concern over various issues facing today's Mormonism. This episode is one in a series of short interviews of leading voices in online and public Mormonism conducted on June 12th by Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon.

June 11 brought news that Kate Kelly, founder of Ordain Women, and John Dehlin, prominent public LDS voice through Mormon Stories and other podcasts and venues, have been called to face church disciplinary councils for "apostasy," as evidenced through their activism and public expressions of concern over various issues facing today's Mormonism. This episode is one in a series of short interviews of leading voices in online and public Mormonism conducted on June 12th by Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon.

June 11 brought news that Kate Kelly, founder of Ordain Women, and John Dehlin, prominent public LDS voice through Mormon Stories and other podcasts and venues, have been called to face church disciplinary councils for "apostasy," as evidenced through their activism and public expressions of concern over various issues facing today's Mormonism. This episode is one in a series of short interviews of leading voices in online and public Mormonism conducted on June 12th by Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon.

June 11 brought news that Kate Kelly, founder of Ordain Women, and John Dehlin, prominent public LDS voice through Mormon Stories and other podcasts and venues, have been called to face church disciplinary councils for "apostasy," as evidenced through their activism and public expressions of concern over various issues facing today's Mormonism. This episode is one in a series of short interviews of leading voices in online and public Mormonism conducted on June 12th by Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon.

In this exciting episode, Russell Stevenson interviews Chelsea Shields Strayer, a member of Ordain Women’s Executive Board. We discuss the history of the Ordain Women movement in the broader context of Mormon history and explore the contours of the relationship between Ordain Women and the institutional Church. The discussion that arises is rich, provocative, and […] The post Podcast #9: Ordain Women in Mormon History-An Interview with Chelsea Shields Strayer appeared first on Mormon History Guy.

Australia deams homeopathic remedies useless to human health, Captain Janeway duped into narrating geocentric “documentary” trailer, Brandeis University reneges on honorary degree for Ayaan Hirsi Ali, family sues polygamist town, Oklahoma birth control, spaghetti monsters around the world, LDS General Conference yields more “Ordain Women” news, and atheists organize mass resignation outside Temple Square.

On Episode 61 of Ol’ Ute Radio, Rebecca and Sascha are joined by guest and Ordain Women spokesperson, Suzette Smith. With the semi-annual LDS General Conference days away, Smith comes in studio to discuss her organization and explain some of the important tenets of Ordain Women’s mission. K-Ute Director Will Hatton steps in for the […] The post OUR 061: “Ordain Women!” appeared first on Utah Podcast Network.

Over the course of its run, Mormon Matters has received emails from non-LDS persons who have become regular listeners to the podcast, as well as participants in online LDS "Bloggernacle" groups and other discussions about Mormonism. This episode features four of them--three in person, Bridget McGregor, Karrie Higgins, and Les Gripkey, and one who sent in her story, Bryony Leech--who share why they engage to the strong degrees they do with Mormonism. They each also weigh in with views of what Mormon ideas or aspects are most appealing to them, where Mormonism is strongest or should step forward even more, as well as areas where it frustrates or should consider its way of interacting with the world. Each of the panelists’ stories is fascinating, as are the insights and perspectives they offer as friendly outsiders. Among the topics getting good attention are LDS emphases on the family and ideas such as baptism and temple work for the dead, community structures, including the influence of the way Salt Lake City is structured on one’s experiences, Mark Hofmann, the Ordain Women movement and how change comes about within Mormonism, LDS history and how it is presented, and the fears that many Latter-day Saints have about authentic sharing of their experiences (too often falling back on the "LDS script").

On 5 October, a group of women (and some male supporters) will, either through tickets granted by LDS leaders (they have petitioned leaders for them) or via the stand-by line, attempt to gain entrance to the priesthood session of general conference. Spearheaded by the group Ordain Women, the announcement of these plans has set LDS blogs afire, reinvigorating a several-decades-long and very important but complex discussion of pathways to full equality of men and women within Mormonism, including the possibility of women being ordained to the priesthood. In this episode of Mormon Matters, two members of Ordain Women--April Young Bennett and Danielle Mooney--join Dialogue editor Kristine Haglund and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a discussion of Ordain Women, its origins, activities, philosophies, and its plans for the priesthood meeting admission attempt. The conversation then opens into the wider questions about the objections that are being raised to this plan--its strategic gamble, whether the LDS membership is yet ready for a seismic shift such as would follow an announcement opening the door to women’s ordination, if this is an effective way for the best ideas about why ordination is essential for equality to be heard and prayerfully considered by the Church’s governing leadership. Wherever one stands on the issue of women's ordination, this is an extremely interesting and vital topic, for the future character of Mormonism is very much at stake.

Kate Kelly and the organizers of Ordain Women give a panel about women’s ordination in the LDS church on August 1st, 2013. [powerpress]

Kate Kelly and the organizers of Ordain Women give a panel about women’s ordination in the LDS church on August 1st, 2013. [powerpress]

Today we interview Kate Kelly – Co-founder of the Ordain Women website (http://ordainwomen.org). In this episode we discuss: why Kate and her associates are calling for the ordination of LDS women, how female ordination might benefit both the institutional church and its members, and how others can support this initiative.