Podcast appearances and mentions of Neil Diamond

Dean Richards, entertainment reporter for WGN, joins Bob Sirott to provide the latest news in entertainment. Bob and Dean talk about the renewal of “Mayor of Kingstown” and “Emily in Paris,” as well as a gift from Neil Diamond to Hugh Jackman. They also share details on a message from Mickey Rourke, rumors about Andy […]

In this long chat about Song Sung Blue and his other film work too, writer/director Craig Brewer joins Simon Brew to chat about his film story. The pair chat about what led to the Neil Diamond-inspired Song Sung Blue coming to life, as well as the influence of films such as The Commitments and Shadowlands. Plus how his late father had a dramatic impact on his career, a bit of Hustle & Flow, and - just before we're cut off - Rocky IV too! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

SPIRIT ANIMALJONATHAN LIVINGSTON SEAGULL by Neil Diamond (Columbia, 1973)There were alot of self-help manuals popularized in the 70's; I remember gifting my mother the book “Your Eronneous Zones” (but that's another story)…. My acting teacher in college based her syllabus on Eric Berne's “I'm Ok, You're Ok”. But one of the biggest New Age parables making the rounds was Ex-Aviator Richard Bach's Jonathan Livingston Seagull, the story of an anthropomorphized Christ-like Seagull, who has to fly off from the pack to find his true self.It was a zeitgeist sensation, and spawned a movie with this soundtrack by the immortal Neil Diamond. Maestro Diamond is currently in the middle of a career renaissance - his biographical musical A BEAUTIFUL NOISE  is playing on The Great White Way, and although he struggles with Parkinson's he continues to work on new music. No one was bigger in the 70s, and although the 1960s Neil Diamond that I loved, the Brill Building song plugger who wrote and recorded Cherry Cherry, You Got to Me, and Solitary Man had seemingly transformed himself into a borscht belt crooner, there was no denying his powers of voice and composition, no matter how cheesy the venue (The Jazz Singer?)I chuckled ironically when I pulled this tape from the pile, anticipating mounds of Velveeta. But now, listening for the first time, I am moved to tears. (This is probably because all my youthful cynicism has given up the ghost). It's a beautiful musical meditation produced by Tom Catalano, and arranged by Lee Holdridge, and Neil's voice soars, aloft on chords of longing. Indeed, the album out-grossed the movie by 10 million dollars, and garnered the 1974 Grammy for Best Original Score, demonstrating that although the radio-controlled gliders representing the flying birds in the film might have been fake, Neil's inspiration was not. 

All about the Barron family Christmas, Song Sung Blue is a non-nihilistic story about love, marriage, and the healing power of Neil Diamond. In Catholic Stuff, we talk about one of our faith's many paradoxes: the attainment of everything through sacrifice. Our locals page is now accepting subscriptions! Move over from Patreon so more of your tips go to us and not Apple. Books: Read along with Mac - Other great stuff we like: Baritus Catholic Illustrations Pacem in Terris Retreat Center Restoration of Christian Culture from Our Lady of Clear Creek Abbey Restoration of Christian Culture PDF Spiritual Direction.com Fatima Farm liturgical calendar from Sofia Institute Press Gregory the Great's St. Nicholas Guild Total Consecration to Jesus Through Mary Other stuff our family does: Our libsyn page where you can find all our old episodes Sam and Mena's podcast: Engaged at 18 Spoiled! with Mac and Katherine Mac's book! Clueless in Galilee Ben's Photography Business: Red Barron Media Find us on our website Theme song by Mary Bragg.  

And just like that, it's the end of 2025! But it's not over yet, we have the fabulous Kate Hudson to see us out of the year. Kate joined us for breakfast in the midst of a whirlwind tour for the brand new film Song Sung Blue, which is a beautifully touching film. Over breakfast, we talked about everything from making the film with Hugh Jackman, her love of a dirty martini, the family's epic annual New Years Eve plans, being caught in the LA fires, meeting Neil Diamond, when the perfect age is to watch Overboard, and we discover that Kate's Italian family come from mafia roots! What a way to end the year, thank you for popping round Kate, hope you have a fabulous 2026! Kate's new film Song Sung Blue is released in cinemas on New Year's Day. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

THIS IS A PREVIEW PODCAST. NOT THE FULL REVIEW. Please check out the full podcast review on our Patreon Page by subscribing over at - https://www.patreon.com/NextBestPicture For this week's second podcast review, Ema Sasic and Dan Bayer join me to discuss the latest film from Craig Brewer, "Song Sung Blue" starring Hugh Jackman, Kate Hudson, Michael Imperioli, Ella Anderson, Fisher Stevens, Jim Belushi, King Princess, Mustafa Shakir, Hudson Hensley & John Beckwith. Based on the 2008 documentary film of the same name by Greg Kohs, the film follows Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson as Mike and Claire Sardina, who performed as the Neil Diamond tribute band Lightning & Thunder before their lives took an unexpected turn for the worse. The film premiered at the 2025 AFI Festival to positive reviews, but what did we think of it? Please tune in as we discuss the performances, the tone, music, story, craftsmanship, its awards season chances, and more in our SPOILER-FILLED review. Thank you for listening, and enjoy! Check out more on NextBestPicture.com Please subscribe on... Apple Podcasts - https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/negs-best-film-podcast/id1087678387?mt=2 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7IMIzpYehTqeUa1d9EC4jT YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWA7KiotcWmHiYYy6wJqwOw And be sure to help support us on Patreon for as little as $1 a month at https://www.patreon.com/NextBestPicture and listen to this podcast ad-free Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, the focus is on clergy abuse—a topic made even more pressing by recent headlines. The featured guest, Sandy Phillips Kirkham, shares her harrowing ordeal of being abused by a charismatic youth pastor starting at the age of 16. Sandy discusses the grooming process, the five years of abuse, and how she was ultimately expelled from her church while her abuser was merely relocated. She delves into the long-lasting impact of the abuse on her life and her spiritual journey, how she concealed her trauma for 27 years, and how she ultimately confronted her abuser. Sandy also provides valuable insights and actionable advice for preventing abuse and supporting victims within church communities. Her story is also detailed in her book, ‘Let Me Prey on You,' which offers a detailed account of her journey from victim to advocate. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:32 Introducing Today's Topic: Clergy Abuse 02:17 Sandy Phillips Kirkham's Early Life and Church Involvement 06:22 Meeting the Abuser: The Charismatic Youth Pastor 08:43 Red Flags and Grooming Tactics 13:51 The First Inappropriate Act 16:37 The Abuse Escalates 21:06 The Aftermath and Church's Response 28:15 Life After Abuse: Marriage and Keeping Secrets 32:09 Protecting Future Generations 35:17 The Importance of Sex Education in the Church 36:32 Techniques for Discussing Sex with Children 37:22 Personal Experiences with Sex Education 38:20 Triggering Memories and Emotional Breakdown 40:13 The Journey of Healing Begins 41:31 Understanding Clergy Abuse and Self-Forgiveness 43:52 Confronting the Abuser 47:07 Challenges in Seeking Justice 54:47 Preventing Abuse in the Church 01:00:31 Supporting Victims of Clergy Abuse 01:05:07 Final Thoughts and Resources Sandy Kirkham and her husband Bill enjoy life with their two grown children, two beautiful granddaughters, and two fairly well-behaved dogs. Sandy continues to use her voice to help victims of clergy abuse. She currently serves on the board of Council Against Child Abuse. Sandy has spoken before the Ohio Senate, a Maryland court, and appeared on a local television show in Boston. Her story, “Stolen Innocence,” was told in a documentary produced by The Hope of Survivors. Sandy works with survivors conducting victim support conferences. She has participated in The Voice of the Faithful (VOTF) panels moderated by SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests), sharing her perspective from the non-Catholic point of view. Sandy has been a presenter/speaker at major events on clergy abuse including the Hope & Healing Conference. Sandy has earned a certificate of completion from the Faith Trust Institute entitled, “A Sacred Trust: Boundary Issues for Clergy and Spiritual Teachers.” https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/ https://www.facebook.com/KirkhamAuthor/  sandykirkhamauthor@gmail.com  Purchase her book “Let Me Prey Upon You” on amazon: https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/shop/let-me-prey-upon-you/   Link Tree   Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/   Sandy Phillips Kirkham [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hello. Welcome everyone. Welcome to my regular listeners, as well as some new listeners that have joined us today. I have a great guest for you today. We're going to be talking about clergy abuse today. Religious leader, abuse. Pastor, youth leader. You've seen this in the news recently with all these preachers being arrested or charged with sexual misconduct or rape or [00:02:00] pedophilia. I'm sure you've seen the news. Well, today we're going to hear a story about a woman who's been victimized in that way and she's fighting back. So let me read her bio for you. A church is where an insecure 16-year-old girl should feel welcome, happy, and most importantly, safe tragically. For some, the church can become a place of great harm. Sandy Phillips Kirkham details her account of how charismatic youth minister preyed upon her, a betrayal which left her broken with a shattered faith and the ultimate shame of being blamed enforced from the church she loved. Despite a successful and happy life, is a wife, mother, and friend. Sandy successfully concealed her abuse for [00:03:00] 27 years until a trigger forced her to face the truth. Sandy's story will take you on her journey of healing. Her strength and courage will inspire you. Let me pray upon you her book details. Sandy's journey from innocent 16-year-old, a victim to a survivor, and advocate. We please welcome Sandy Phillips. Kirk, welcome Sandy to the show. Thanks so much for coming on. Well, thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. Wow. So I've been listening to you on the Preacher Boys podcast and thought you had a really great story, and so I wanted to come and bring you on so my listeners can hear your story as well. Mm-hmm. So tell us a little bit about your home and your church environment growing up. Let's [00:04:00] start from the beginning here. Okay. I'm the oldest of five. My parents were divorced when I was about seven, which that was really the impact of my life, of just how it altered everything about that time in my life. Then my mother remarried and we moved in with my stepfather shortly after my father remarried, and so I was dealing with these blended families and it was just very confusing for me at the time, my parents and stepfather did not attend church. So I, I wasn't a part of a church until I was about eight, and that's when my best friend who lived up the street invited me to go with their family, and I went with them and I went every Sunday after that, I absolutely fell in love with church. It was a place that I felt safe. I think it provided for me a place away from home that I felt comfortable and I got attention there. I was very active even as a small child. I went to vacation Bible school, church camp, love Sunday School. I sang in a junior choir. Really, it was a just a great place for me to [00:05:00] be. When I was 13, I was baptized and then my faith really deepened and my involvement in the church became even more so, started teaching Sunday school and teaching vacation Bible school. I started serving on committees with adults and doing more of the activities that would, , just be more in depth than just typical youth group activities. So, it's just no exaggeration to say that if the doors of the church were open, I was there and I loved it. I loved serving God. I felt that was the place for me, and everything about it was brought me joy and peace in the church. Wow. You really, were very sincere in your faith. It was not a fake one. I hear a lot of stories of. Being brought up in the church and being made to go to church and, you just go through the motions kind of thing. But it sounds like it was the opposite for you. It was that you really believed this with all your heart. Was that a fundamental Baptist church you were going [00:06:00] to or what? It was a church, Christ Christian Church, which is similar to the Baptist. It's an independent church. Yeah, that's the church. That was so something happened while you were serving the Lord and loving God. You met your abuser? Yes. Shortly after I turned 16, our church hired a new youth pastor, and from the moment he arrived, he was totally different than anyone we'd ever seen before. He was very charismatic, very dynamic. His sermons were really like nothing we'd ever heard before, and people were just drawn to him. He had a personality that people found themselves wanting to be around him. They wanted to please him. So he was very good at asking people to do things and they didn't hesitate. It, it was just a different kind of atmosphere. When he came to the church, the youth group exploded in numbers. We went from like 25 to almost 200 in a very short time. Even the [00:07:00] adult church was growing because people just came to hear him preach because he was so good at what he did. He was 30, married with two children, but he really acted more like our age group. He dressed like we did. He. Went to our football games at school, he knew our music. So he just, he really, he was tuned into us and in return we found ourselves, all of us being willing to please him and wanna do anything we could to make the youth group and the church better. So when people think of a profile of a child abuser, they usually think, oh, some dirty old man, that his roaming fingers or what have you, but this youth pastor sounded like, okay, he was really good looking and hip and really loved the young people. Mm-hmm. Is that typical of. Well, it's, it's typical in the sense that it's not the, dirty old man hiding in the bushes. Most abusers [00:08:00] are people we know. They're people that we like. They're usually people that, connect with people very well, and that's what makes them so dangerous because they're not obvious with what they do, and they're very good at that. They pretend to be one of us. They pretend to care, but in reality, their goal is to find a way to take advantage of the most vulnerable in, in the group. And so, predators are usually drawn to places where they will find vulnerable people. The gymnastics team is an example of that. The Boy Scouts, anywhere where you can, and certainly the church because we are welcoming into people who are in need. Oftentimes. Then there are many people in the church who are vulnerable to these types of men, and sometimes women. Were there any red flags? That you should have seen or noticed when you were around this youth pastor? Well, he came with so many different ideas and different ways of doing things. And one of the things that he was doing now, this was in the [00:09:00] seventies, so cultures were changing and it was free love and kind of thing. But he came into our church and he expected everyone to hug each other. So we were always hugging each other. And he also expected us to say how much we loved each other and that we love you and not just that I love you in Christ. He would simply walk up, give you a hug and say, I love you. Now you know, that may seem innocent, but that's a little odd for that pastor to be saying those kinds of things. And it also blurs the lines because when you say to someone, I love you, that can be confusing to. Young teenagers and even to vulnerable adults. So, but he did that with everybody. It wasn't like he picked someone else special, but, so the hugging in the contact was kind of a red flag in the beginning. But for me personally, I babysat for his family. His wife worked evenings. Mm-hmm. So one night after he came home, he asked me to go to his basement and listen to a song by Neil Diamond. [00:10:00] Well, it felt a little weird 'cause I'd never. I've been around a pastor that wanted to talk to me about anything but church in the Bible. But I went to the basement. Yeah. I mean a Neil Diamond song. So I went to the basement. I know, but that's a trigger factor for me sometimes. So anyway, I went to the basement and he put this record on and I sat down on the couch and instead of sitting in a chair or another place, he came on the couch and sat very close to me. And I remember feeling uncomfortable, but I didn't say anything. 'cause I thought, well, he is just sitting next to me. It's no big deal. But that's a red flag that I felt because it felt uncomfortable to me. And then the other times that I would babysit for him. His wife wouldn't come home till late in the evening, so he would come home around seven or eight and after the kids were in bed, instead of taking me home, he wanted me to sit and talk with him all evening. So we'd talk about the Bible or we'd talk about church, and sometimes he'd ask me what I thought of his [00:11:00] sermon, which at age 16, I'm flattered that this man has any idea that I would have some opinion about this great sermon that he just gave. So I didn't see anything wrong with that because he's my pastor. But had that occurred with my 30-year-old neighbor down the street, every time I went to babysit, I know I would've come home to my mother and said, okay, this is weird. Mm-hmm. Every time I babysit, this man wants to sit and talk to me all evening. I mean, what interest would I have as a teenager wanting to talk to this 30-year-old married man? But because my pastor was who he was and he tapped into our common connection of the church and God, and again, many times he would give me books to read 'cause he wanted me to get better in my deep, in my spirituality. So I didn't see anything wrong with it because of who he was. And so I just accepted that behavior, which is another tool and technique. They look for ways to get into you. Mm-hmm. [00:12:00] That don't seem obvious. And that was, so those were two red flags for me. Now as far as the congregation goes, I was in his office a lot by myself, but so were other kids, because he would actually call us into his office and say, I want you to come in and tell me what's going on in your life. Talk to me about your problems. Instead of us going to him, he would encourage us to come into his office. So while that probably wasn't a good thing, no one saw it as a bad thing. It seemed normal, but he called me into his office a lot more than the other kids. And later on there were people who did say to me, there were times when I wondered why he said something to you like that, or I noticed something one time. And so I think people notice some things, but no one thought enough of it to say, okay, there's something going on that doesn't seem right. So those were the red flags that I think in the beginning were very subtle. But they were hard to see, [00:13:00] and this is really important to distinguish these things because I was groomed by a guidance counselor in seventh grade. Mm-hmm. But he was one of those dirty old men that, he was doing creepy stuff. Yeah. But I never would have seen myself. A pastor and he's talking about spiritual things and he's talking about God and mm-hmm. He's not talking about sex. He's not watching, you're not watching dirty movies together. No, he's not, buying you sexy lingerie. It's, Hey, he's doing spiritual things. Mm-hmm. It's a setup. It's that grooming process you're talking about. It's pulling someone in to gain their trust, in a very di diabolical way, because he's using the church to do that. That's really scary. That scares mm-hmm. Scares me to death. What were the first times that he did something really inappropriate that you were just like, whoa? Well, the very [00:14:00] first time, was after a youth group meeting that was held in my home. I was the song leader. He put me in a leadership position, and it was very important to him that the evening always go well and that we were to make people feel welcome. And so at the end of the evening, I was nervous because I wanted to make sure that he thought everything went well. And he came up to me in my hallway and began telling me how great the evening was and how proud he was of me. And I was on Cloud nine. I was flattered that he felt that way. I felt good that the evening went so well. And then he just slowly bent down and he kissed me. And it wasn't, it was a kiss, but it seemed somewhat innocent to some extent. And I, I remember thinking, I think he just kissed me. Then my next thought was, well, he's my pastor and I don't think he would be doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And it was just a quick kiss. And he's always hugging people. And so maybe this is just his way of showing his appreciation for the evening. It was really [00:15:00] the only way in my 16-year-old mind that I could justify it because I couldn't think about this man doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And this was a person that everyone loved and thought so highly of, so how could I think he was doing something he shouldn't be doing? So I just let it go. I didn't think anything more about it. I mean, did you have any sex ed or anything? Did you know the birds and bees? Nine. Well, yeah, I'm 16. I did. Yeah, I did. But I wasn't, I hadn't dated much. I wasn't allowed to date till I was 16, so I hadn't had any dating experience. I had one kiss before this with a boy at camp. So I wasn't. Worldly or knowledgeable about all those things. But, and again, it was such a quick innocent type kiss. He didn't grab me, he didn't push me against the wall. I just, and again, I think for me it was okay if he's, if this is more than just a kiss, then what do I do with it? So therefore I'm just gonna say it's [00:16:00] nothing because I don't know what else to do. Um, wow. I let it go. I let it go. But as I babysat for him, he, sometimes when I would leave, he would kiss me and sometimes he wouldn't. So, I didn't see it as a con, kind of a continual thing that he was always wanting to kiss me. He always hugged me. But the kissing became more intense as it went along. So it, it would be another year, before he would have sex with me. And so that grooming process and kind of pushing the boundaries each time he was with me, finally ended with him having sex with me. Oh, wow. Now, some of us listening are like an adult having sex with a child or 16-year-old. Can you unpack that a little bit more, the process of how he got to that point? I mean, that the first time you had intercourse, I mean, did he, you know, go to a hotel with you and you had a candlelight dinner, or was it in the backseat of the car?[00:17:00] Was it an accident? It wasn't an accident. He was very deliberate and I had every intentions of having sex with me that night. I babysat, I was babysitting, I put the kids to bed, I walked down the steps. I assumed that we would go into the living room. Or the family room, sit on the couch and talk about the things we always talked about. But instead, he stopped me at the bottom of the stairs and he took me into the living room, and immediately put me on the floor and began undressing me. Um, and wow, I froze. I, I literally froze and I kept thinking to myself, he's going to stop. He's going to stop. And that the entire time he's whispering into my ear how much he loves me, that he would never hurt me, and that he can, I can trust him. And then he kept asking me, do you love me? Do you love me? And I, of course, I'm answering yes, because well, yes I do, because that's what I've told him for the past year. I, I, I just, I was so confused and what my real reaction was, I froze. Mm-hmm. Um, he, he sort of pushed my head under the [00:18:00] stereo. And so when he is starting to get farther than I thought he would ever go. I blocked, I just blocked it out and I started reading the serial numbers underneath the stereo. Oh my goodness. Just to be thinking of anything else. Um, at one point he then just picked me up and took me upstairs. He literally put me on the bed, penetrated me, and that was it. And I was horrified. I was absolutely horrified. I, I wanted to cry. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do. Um, he left the room, told me to get dressed, and he would take me home. And I remember sitting on the bed and I put the bedspread around me because I was so embarrassed that I didn't have my clothes on. Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. Um, and then I just remember thinking I just had sex. I'm no longer a virgin. I just had sex with this man and. He took me home. Now, in the [00:19:00] book, of course, I go into a little bit more detail, but Right, he took me home and just before I got outta the car, he said to me, now, you know, this is something between the two of us, you can't tell anyone. And of course I'm thinking, who would I tell? I, I don't want anybody to know. I just did this. So, that was the first time. And then I think I, at that point I kept thinking, you know, I've had sex with him. So now I'm committed to him again. I'm at this point, I'm 17 years old. I'm still like, what do I do with this? I don't, I don't know what to do with this. Um, and he was convincing me that he loved me. He was convincing me that he needed me in his ministry and that God, this was God's will in our lives. He threw that at me. Eventually he would say to me that we were married in God's eyes. I mean, twisting the scripture and using God as a reason that we should be together. And so. I started to accept that. There were a couple times I went to him and told him that I couldn't do this anymore. I felt [00:20:00] guilty. He would respond in one of two ways. One, he would say to me how much he needed me, how much he loved me, and that he couldn't live without me. So that was the guilt part of it. Or he would respond and by saying to me, you know, you're no longer a virgin. No one else is gonna want you. I'm the only one that knows how to love you, and you are committed to me, and this is gonna be the way it is. And I saw no way out. I didn't see a way out. And so the relationship continued for five years. Wow. Five years. It went on for five years. That is a long time. And it, during that time, he became more aggressive physically. Uh, he hit me. He became sexually more deviant. It just progressed. It got worse and worse. And to a point that I finally, I was, my self-esteem was so low. I hated myself for what I'd been doing. So I finally just accepted that this was my life. I knew [00:21:00] I'd never get married. I knew I'd never have children, and this wouldn't be over until he said it was over. This went on for five years and nobody in the church noticed it. Your parents didn't notice it. You know, people say, well, where were your parents? Well, first of all, my parents were thrilled. I was in church. I mean, this was a time in the seventies when drugs were. Prevalent girls were, having free sex. So for them, what safer place could there be than to be in church? So, and they saw his intention toward me and his involvement with me as a good thing. I mean, he would take me on hospital visits with him. I mean, they saw this as being positive. And they knew how much I loved being there and that it was a place that I liked to go. So they didn't see it. And many in the church didn't see it began because who suspects the pastor of such behavior. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And especially in the seventies when this wasn't an open topic like it is now, you wouldn't have dared thought anything like that. And so [00:22:00] it's not uncommon for people in the church, to miss the signs and to ignore what they really do see, because they just can't believe that it would be something that would be happening in their church because then they'd have to do something about it. Yes, exactly. When did it all come crumbling down? It does crumble. Eventually it does. Two elders became suspicious and followed him one night and found us together in a hotel room. And then from then on, the next month and a half was an absolute nightmare for me. Hmm. It was initially hoped that they could keep what he had done, quiet and keep it from the congregation. Now, I have to say one thing before I forget. This wasn't his first incident of sexual misconduct. Oh. Prior to and just after he was awri, he arrived at our church. A young woman from his first church came forward and accused him of sexual misconduct. When he was [00:23:00] confronted by my elders, he didn't deny it. He said it was true. He asked for forgiveness, that it would never happen again. It was a mistake. So within six months. That's when he was kissing me in my hallway. So this, so these elders were aware that this was the second time that there had been an incident with this man of sexual abuse and misconduct. But in spite of that, they tried to keep it quiet in hopes of moving him to another church. And so I was told during that time where I was to sit, how I was to respond to questions. I wasn't to talk to anyone. I wasn't to tell anyone about what had happened, including my parents. And this was all in an effort to keep it quiet. Well, that effort failed. And so it was determined that he should address the congregation. He did it in a very vague way, just simply said that he'd sinned. He'd sinned against God, and he'd sinned against his wife. And that was his confession. That was it. Two days later, he had me meet [00:24:00] him in a hotel room after that confession in front of the congregation. Now. He was moved to the next church. He was given a going away party. There was actually a vote to maybe keep him, but the vote failed and they decided to move him to the next church. About, two weeks, three weeks later, I was called in by the elders, and this is probably the hardest part of my story for me. Mm-hmm. I was called in by the elders and I was told that because of my behavior I was to leave the church. I was devastated. I loved that church. It was the only church I knew, and here I was being told by these two elders that I wasn't fit to worship there any longer. Mm-hmm. He could be forgiven and given a second, third chance. I couldn't be, I was told that to leave the church. I wasn't given any counseling. I wasn't helped in any way. I was simply told to leave and I did. I left. [00:25:00] And that I told people many times, as horrific as the abuse was, having been told to leave, that church had a greater impact on me spiritually than the actual abuse did. I don't think I ever recovered from that. It still haunts me to this day to some extent. That response of the church really devastated me. So that was the crumbling, as you called it? It came crashing down and I would, I left the church. So did that change your perception of God? What was your relationship with God this time? Yes. You were kicked outta the church, but. Well, I felt a disconnect from God. I never blamed God. I never felt like God caused this to happen. I, in fact, I carry the blame and the shame. I felt guilty for what I had done. And so I never blamed God, but because of the relationship being tied in with God and the [00:26:00] prayers that this man would give, and then, you know, he'd give these wonderful sermons about marriage and sanctity of marriage on a Sunday morning after having sex with me the night before. I had difficulty separating all of that, and there were so many trigger factors associated with the church and prayer that God really did. It was hard for me to have any kind of relationship with God. I did. I didn't become an atheist like a lot of victims do, and who become angry at God. I simply just. I just put him on the back burner. I knew he existed, but I didn't have a connection with him any longer. So for 27 years, I, I never prayed. I never opened my Bible. I went to church because when I met my husband, he was a Methodist. And I thought, well, I'll go to the Methodist Church. It's a different denomination. Mm-hmm. I'll just go on. It should be fine. It didn't work that way. I had anxiety attacks in church. I, his [00:27:00] reminders of him were constant, but I forced myself to go. I made sure that I went because I knew when we had children, I wanted them to have that church experience. But every time I walked past the minister's office, I got a knot in my stomach. Oh yeah. It had nothing to do with that minister. But you understand that. I mean, it, but I did that for 27 years. It became my norm. I just knew that when I walked past that office, I was gonna get a knock my stomach, certain hymns. I can tell you what his favorite hymn was, and every time that was played, that's who I thought of. I couldn't pray. It was so, I did have a deep, deep disconnect for 27 years, and I have to tell you, I missed it. I actually mourn that loss of my spiritual life, but I didn't know how to get it back. Because I'm keeping this secret. I'm still carrying guilt and shame. I couldn't forgive myself. I didn't feel worthy to be in church. So with all of that mixed in, I just put myself on autopilot and said, [00:28:00] well, this is the way my life will be and I'll just have to accept it. It just sounds so unfair. Somebody that loves the Lord so much and served in the church and so innocent and being kicked out. Oh, but it sounded like maybe meeting your husband would've been a positive thing for you. How did you guys meet? I actually worked at his office, so I met him there. We dated for about two years, and I just found him to be a kind, loving soul. He was very unassuming. He wasn't arrogant. He didn't, he wasn't a boastful type of person. He didn't like taking credit for things, even though he deserved it sometimes. He was just a good hearted person, and I just, I fell in love with him immediately. I really did. I thought this was a great, great guy. I mean, I will tell you, I have said many times because before I met him, I was on a destructive path. I did not have any self-esteem. [00:29:00] I saw myself just simply as some sex object that, I was only good for that. And so when I met him, he saved my life because he loved me for who I was and showed me that I was worthy. So I've often said to him, you saved my life, and he will respond back with you made mine, and you can't get any better than that. So meeting him was a turning point for me, but I kept a secret from him for 27 years, and I lived in fear that he'd always find out that I'd had this affair with a married man. And I know in my heart that it wouldn't have made a difference to him. But people who've been abused never forget the words, don't ever tell. And I never forgot those words. And I never forgot what the consequences could be if I were to tell someone. Because when my elders found out, they blamed me. And I, I couldn't bear the thought that if I were to tell him. [00:30:00] Somehow he would find fault with me, or I wondered, would he wonder why I didn't feel confident enough to tell him? Would he feel betrayed that I kept a secret? Would he see me differently sexually? All those fears that I had while unfounded were still present in my mind. And so I never could tell him. And I had to do a lot of play acting and pretending, through our married life in the sense that the times I was having trigger factors, I had to hide them. And I know he would've been supportive, but I couldn't see that. Because while trauma affects you at the time of the abuse, it's lifelong. It doesn't leave you. And so I lived with that for 27 years. So did you have. Intimacy issues when you were together? Was that what you're talking about? The triggering? No, I, know a lot of victims do, and that's understandable. I really didn't, because he was so different from my abuser [00:31:00] and I recognized that my abuser was emotionally violent mm-hmm. And physically, he just wasn't loving in any sense of the word. I was simply used for sex. Mm-hmm. And I didn't have that with my husband. And so I could separate that a little bit. But I think the guilt of hiding the secret had an impact on our marriage as far as my able to be intimate with him in an emotional way. I'm really glad to hear that. I, you are not the first person that I've heard that. The victim has hidden a secret from her husband. I passed her and a pastor's wife and her husband did not know. Mm-hmm. Children didn't know, and it was a family member that was the abuser. And I kept telling her, you've got to tell him. Mm-hmm. You know why? It's because, and I was thinking this when I was listening to your, the other shows that you were on. I'm thinking about your children and your grandchildren. If I was abused, [00:32:00] I would be like. How do I keep my children and grandchildren from going through what I just went through, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, that's an interesting thing because most people would assume that my daughter, I would've been all over it and worried sick every time she left the house. Yeah. But I actually had the opposite, reaction because keep in mind, I didn't see myself as an abuse victim. I saw myself as someone who participated, who willingly went into this relationship and stayed in it willingly, which is not the case when you're abused. There's the control, the manipulation, all of those things that play into keeping a victim in a relationship and they see no way out. So for me, I just assumed I got one bad apple in the whole barrel, that this didn't happen to other people and that I had an affair. But my daughter, who I knew, she would never have an affair with a married man, I just knew that. So I. Sent her on [00:33:00] retreats. I sent her to church camp without fear because again, I'm thinking, okay, this just doesn't happen to other people and this is not something I need to be concerned about with her. However, with my granddaughters, it's totally different because now I understand what really occurred and the damage that can occur when you've been abused. And so with my granddaughters, her mom and dad have talked to them, about good touch, bad touch. And I too have talked about to her, but I've been a little bit more probably detailed about it. Mm-hmm. And as she gets older, these men, the techniques change as you get older and they, after they go after teenage girls, so mm-hmm. Hopefully I'll be able to help her understand, what happens when someone's grooming. I want her to understand her personal space, that if you're not comfortable when someone hugs you, it's okay. That's right. Say I, I don't want you to touch me that way. Mm-hmm. Or say if they don't feel comfortable and we put a lot on kids to do that. 'cause here [00:34:00] we're asking a child to say to an adult, no. Mm-hmm. So it's okay to go to your mother or your mom and say, can you tell so and so Uncle Jimmy or whoever it is, I don't wanna be hugged. So we need to make sure our kids understand that their personal space is their space. And if they don't want someone in that space, it's okay to say no. I also think it's important to tell kids that good people can do bad things. Yeah. Because, as we talked about earlier, our abusers are not strangers. They're not mean people. Mm-hmm. They're usually good people. They're usually people who've given us gifts. They're people who help us. They're people who tell us how wonderful we are. So it's hard for children, even adults, to see this individual who. Who on one side is a good individual who does a lot in the church, who's done all these wonderful things. And so we, we have to tell these kids, just because they're a good person doesn't mean they can't do bad things. And so that's kind of the message I hope to get to my granddaughters that I didn't give to my [00:35:00] daughter. And fortunately she didn't have any issues with church or any, anybody abusing her. But I certainly did not, guide her in the right way in that sense because I just, like I said, I just assumed that I was the only one that this would ever have happened to. Well, I think, I hear a lot in the church that they don't teach sex ed because they don't want the kids to go out and have sex. Mm-hmm. And so a lot of these kids are like ignorant as to, what is healthy and what is not proper, yeah. We need to teach 'em that our bodies or are going to respond. They were built that way. God intended us to have feelings. You know, when we are around the opposite sex, that's normal. Mm-hmm. So we need to make sure kids understand. But there are barriers and there are boundaries that need to be taken. But you're absolutely right when we don't talk at it, then we figure it out on their own. And we could, we can all imagine when you're leaving teenagers to [00:36:00] their own devices to figure out things. That's probably not gonna lead in a good spot. No, we have the internet now, which when we, right. When you and I were younger, we didn't have the internet. We didn't have cell phones. No. If you wanted a Playboy magazine, you had to go to that kind of a neighborhood to get something. Yes. You know? Yes. It was a lot more difficult. Yes, absolutely. But too many parents are embarrassed to talk to their children about sex and, you know, everybody listening needs to listen. You need to find a way to talk to them about these things. And one of the techniques that I use with my daughter, just in talking about sex in general, kids don't want to hear their mom and dad talk to 'em about this. So what I did would say, I read a magazine article about this girl who did such and such so that I put it off on something else that's, a non-entity of a person. And I'll say, or Have you ever heard of this? And of course I know she's got a little embarrassed, but I, it opened the dialogue without me coming [00:37:00] out and saying, have you heard of oral sex? Instead, I would talk to her and say, I heard this about this. This is what kids are doing, blah, blah, blah. So you kind of have to find techniques and ways to sneak around it sometimes, but you absolutely need to talk to, because they know it's out there and they're going to experiment. That's just part of being a teenager. Yeah, my parents chickened out. They just gave me a book to read. Same, probably the same book. I got, I forget what it was called. Where did I come from? Or something. It was a cartoon book. Mm-hmm. And I'm grateful for that. And, they just, after I finished the book, do you have any questions? Yeah, yeah. I had a lot of, older people that were friends and I would actually go to my older. Senior citizen friends and ask them questions rather than ask my parents. Right? Yeah, yeah. It's more comfortable that way for sure. Like I said, it's not the topic that we like to talk to with our kids and our kids don't wanna hear it, but being uncomfortable is not an excuse not to do that. And in school you get [00:38:00] the basics of the mechanics of it, but then that ends, that's all you get there as well. And that's not as helpful either. Yeah. The sixth grade menstrual cycle, health class. Yeah, exactly. That's it. They separate the girls and the boys. Yeah. We were all really embarrassed and Yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. Great information. So let's, circle around back to, okay, you've been hiding this secret forever. Mm-hmm. And nobody knows about your past. And then one day you got triggered. So what happened that day? Well, that's the first chapter of my book, and that is one day I was driving to a golf tournament in Tennessee. We live in Cincinnati. I was driving, my daughter was in college. She was playing in a golf tournament. I was driving down there and I was about halfway when I saw an exit sign for the town of Kingsport, Tennessee. And that is the. Town to which my [00:39:00] abuser was sent after he left our church, and it just sent me over the edge. Mm-hmm. All of a sudden I'm thinking, I'm in the town where he lives. Am I close to his house? Am I close to the church where he's now a minister? I mean, even though it'd been 27 years, I thought he was probably still there. I didn't know, but that's what my mind was telling me. I, all of a sudden I felt his presence in the car. I, I could smell him. I could hear him. Oh. I was, it was unbelievable to me what was happening to me. I didn't even know what was happening. I pulled to the side of the road Oh, good. And I sobbed. Yeah. I sobbed for about 20 minutes and I was just trying to figure out what was happening because anytime I had trigger factors before I could manage them, I could control them. I kind of let them happen and then I push 'em back down. Mm-hmm. This one wasn't going back down and I was a mess. I was just an absolute mess. I was able to get through the weekend. I drove back home and all I could think about was, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? [00:40:00] I wanted to stop thinking about him and I couldn't. I spent the next two weeks, really in anxiety. I, my husband would leave for work and I would just walk around the house, wring my hands, trying to figure out why I was feeling the way I was feeling. What was I gonna do with these feelings till at one point I finally decided I was gonna tell my best friend, and I was absolutely petrified to tell her because for the first time in 27 years, I was going to utter the words. I was sexually abused by my youth pastor. And I remember thinking, he's gonna find out and I'm gonna get in trouble. I just, I was 49 years old and I'm still afraid of this man. But I did tell her, it was, it took me a long time to, to get the words out, but I did, she was very supportive. She was very kind. She was patient as she waited for me to tell her. And so that started my journey of healing just by telling that first person. I then told two or three other of my close friends, so the four of us spent [00:41:00] many days and many hours on the screened in porch of one of my friends just letting me talk. Mm-hmm. And being able to express what had happened to me. I wasn't ready to tell all of the story. I mean, there's parts in the book that I won't go into here because they're pretty mm-hmm. Embarrassing and some things that I did. So I wasn't ready to tell them everything, but I told them enough that it helped me start to release what had been done to me. And so that was the first thing that I did, I think. And then the next thing I did, which was so valuable, and I encouraged victims to do it as well, I just read everything I could on clergy abuse or sexual abuse in itself. So I began to learn the terms of grooming, manipulation, gaslighting, and then I could see how he methodically used each one of those things on me to get me to do the things he got me to do, and to stay in that relationship for those five years. And that was huge for me. So [00:42:00] it was, for the first time as I began reading, I understood that I had been abused. Now, it still took me a while to admit that I really was sexually abused because I didn't want that label. I didn't wanna be an abuse victim. And there was a part of me. We all wanna be loved. And so there was still a part of me that I wanted to think that there was some part of him that cared about me, that this wasn't just purely about sex and that he wasn't just using me for his own gratification. And I had to get past that. I had to finally come to terms with, no, this man didn't do the no one who loves you, would do the things he did and ask the things he did of me. So that took me a while, to finally admit, okay, this was an abusive relationship. So I told someone, educating myself, and then I had to learn to forgive myself. I had to let, I had to let go of the guilt [00:43:00] and shame because any guilt and shame belongs squarely on him. This was a man that I should have been able to trust. It was in a place that should have been the safest place on earth for me. And he took advantage of a vulnerable teenager who had, I didn't have a major crisis in my life, but he knew my home life was an upheaval at times. He knew that I didn't see my dad very much. So he used that to against me. And I had to forgive myself for being who I was at the time and being able to respond the way I did for the coping skills I had at the time. Sure. You can look back. I, and I think, why didn't I say this? Why didn't I do that? But I couldn't because of, of the re of the relationship he had created between us. Mm-hmm. I had lost all power. He was in complete control of this relationship, so I had to forgive myself and that wasn't easy either. Then, and I don't know that this is something all victims should do, but I just felt this need [00:44:00] that I needed to confront him. I just felt like I couldn't move past this unless I was able to face him. Now, I had no contact with him for 27 years. I didn't even know if he was still alive, but I hired a private investigator and he found him ministering in a church in Alabama. And so I had my investigator contact him and we set up a time and a meeting that we would meet. And I took my husband, I took my friend who was a counselor and another friend who was at the church at the time. Um, I wanted her at this point. You told your husband at this point, I'm sorry. Yes, that's correct. I, it was probably three months after I told my friends, that I said to him I would like to meet him in his office and talked to him about something and. I was terrified. I don't know how else to say it. I just was so afraid. Not that I needed to be, but I was. And I probably sat there for almost, [00:45:00] I would say, 40 minutes and just cried. I was able to finally get out. I'm okay, the kids are okay, and then I started crying again. He couldn't have been any more supportive, more loving. I remember looking at his face and I said I was sexually abused by my youth pastor, and he didn't. His expression didn't change, and then I said. I was their babysitter and his face just dropped. And for the first time, I could see the pain I was feeling was reflected in his face. It was, I almost wanted to hug him to say, I'm sorry. 'cause I could see how much it hurt him to know that this had been done to me, especially as a baby. I mean, the picture became complete for him once I said that. And so he was very supportive. I think he was worried about me confronting this man, for a couple reasons. But one, I think he was worried that I would be disappointed in his reaction, and that I would be expecting too much of this [00:46:00] person to understand what he did to me and show any kind of remorse, and that I, it would hurt me even more. And one of my fears was that, I was afraid he wouldn't meet me. I was afraid that he was gonna say, no, I'm not gonna meet with you. And my husband said, oh, he's gonna meet with you all right? Because if he doesn't meet with you, you just tell him. Call the church secretary. We'll call every elder. We're gonna, he, somebody's gonna hear your story if he doesn't want to hear it. So he did agree to meet with me. I went down to Alabama and the meeting took place and I said the things that I wanted to say to him. I wanted him to get what he did to me. But he didn't, he never could understand the damage. It was almost as if, okay, I shouldn't have done it and I'm sorry I did it. Okay, now what do you want? It was, get away. You bother me? Yes. And his greatest fear as most narcissist, and I believe he was, narcissistic, but his greatest fear was that I was going to demand that he be removed from the ministry. I mean, that's what he [00:47:00] was most concerned about, how this was going to impact him. And he should have been out of the ministry. So I went to his. Boss. I was told this, and something happened 27 years ago. He, we think he's safe. We're not worried, in spite of the fact that during the meeting he had admitted that there had been multiple occurrences of sexual misconduct throughout his ministry. Not all teenagers, some were most were probably women. And then he said he had gone to therapy because he had been identified as a sexual addict. And I kept thinking, who, what? What world, what world? Does this make sense that a man who has been identified by a psychologist as a sex addict belongs in the ministry? Nope. But here was this church. So I sent a letter to his 11 elders thinking, okay, somebody in this eldership is gonna see this. Is I something's wrong here. Not one responded totally [00:48:00] ignored me. 11 elders totally ignored me. Wow. No worries. So then, I decided to go to his denominational leaders, which were in Indianapolis. And there again, while they were sympathetic to my story and apologize that it happened, they said, we're an independent church. Our churches hire and fire their own ministers. We have no control and if they choose to keep this man, we can do nothing about it. And so what, I was shut down and basically I had no place else to go. I had pretty much. Done everything I could do. And it wasn't my place in the man that he be removed. I expected the church to be, the church was to do the right thing. Exactly. I assumed so naively that once they heard my story and once they understood the background of this man, surely someone would say, this isn't right. But again, keep in mind he's very charismatic. He brings in [00:49:00] people, he brings in money. And to be fair, and probably I'm being a little too gracious, these men are very good at manipulating not only the victim but the congregation as well. They're very good at getting control of the congregation so that they find themselves following this man no matter what he would do. Yeah. And that's basically what happened. There was going to be, I got a four page letter from his boss telling me that, know, I'm going to. Ruin this church if I continue on this path and that I'm going to feel all this guilt because I'm gonna be responsible for the damage that I will do to pe people's spiritual lives. I mean that, it was an incredible, I put the letter in the book, I, because it is so incredibly, hard to believe that someone write that to a victim of abuse. Just So that was What year did that happen? 2004. Okay. So we did have. We did have the internet. Oh, yes. And this was after the Catholic, [00:50:00] church had their, exposure of sexual abuse within their church. So yes, this was, it was out there for sure. This wasn't something that you would think, oh, I can't believe this happened. And again, he had admitted to these past instances. I mean, this wasn't someone who was saying, oh, I don't know what she's talking about. Or, oh, this is the only time it ever happened. He had been in therapy because he was a sexual addict, So he wasn't registered as a sex offender? I guess not. And in my case, at the time of the abuse, the age of consent was 16. So I had no legal recourse because of I was either legally age of consent. Now that has been changed in Ohio. It's now 18. It's now 18, but many states it's still 16. There are several states where the age of consent is 16. Now, the interesting about that is. His contact sexual contact with me was not considered a crime. However, if he had been my high school teacher, it would've been a crime. What, so pastors I know [00:51:00] does not make sense. It does not make a leg of sense. No, it does not. So it, they don't consider him a teacher. They don't cons, they don't, they considered an affair. A mutual. Relationship if he'd been my teacher, that's a different story. So yeah, I had no legal recourse. And that was frustrating. But I couldn't change that. So it was what it was. I just had to accept that he, yes, he belonged in jail. Yes, there's no doubt and should be registered as a sex offender, but I'm not so sure that even if he's registered as a sex offender, these people in Alabama and wherever he is now, would. Even take that as a concern. Well, you know, the millennials now, they'll just, they just post stuff on Facebook and Twitter and call the evening news and they have, yes. News people at their doorstep, right. Ready to mm-hmm. Track this guy's name through the mud. Mm-hmm. But you didn't choose to do that, I guess. No, you know, I'm very careful about naming him in the sense that, part of my story is that I [00:52:00] reconnected with his wife. She actually divorced him after they moved, because again, he committed sexual misconduct. She was 20, I think, at the time, so it wasn't a minor, but that's beside the point. This is a man in a position that, a professional who does not cross boundaries like that. So, to no one surprise, he committed sexual misconduct the third time, so she divorced him. And part of, I guess letting go of some of the guilt that I felt, I wanted to. Connect with her to at least tell her, not that I was responsible for what happened, but how very sorry I was for her pain and suffering as well because she was part of the youth group. I mean, she was there at the church all the time. We sang in the choir together. So it was like I had a relationship with her. Oh wow. To some extent. And of course when, we were found, when he was found out by the elders, she was upset and she of course, didn't wanna have anything to do with me, which is understandable. So I actually think I [00:53:00] also wanted to give her the opportunity to say whatever she felt she needed to say to me if she wanted to. I mean, I didn't know what she was gonna say or react. I thought maybe she'd hang up on me. I didn't know. So I called her one day. My investigator found her phone number and gave it to me, and she couldn't have been any more gracious. I, she never blamed me. She understood as she, as the years went on, what this really was just like I did. She's remarried. She's has a wonderful husband now. And so I visited her several times. We keep in contact. And so part of my not wanting to expose him too much is that it would be hurtful to her. And he does have children. Now. I know that, well, whatever consequences are as a result of this are all on him, but I don't feel the need to add to that. That's not my purpose in speaking out. And so, mm-hmm. I've gone to his church leaders, I've done everything I can to get him removed from the ministry. And nothing, it's just [00:54:00] he's still, I don't know that he's still a pastor, but he still remains in good standing within that denomination to this day. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we have to just let God. Right. Dish out the justice. It may not be in our timeline, it may not be the way that we think it should happen, but Right. He's not gonna get away with this. No. And again, I did my part. Yes. So my conscience is clear and I am able to say I did what I could do and whether or not they removed him, I certainly hope that I maybe put some doubt in some of their minds and maybe questioned their motives in keeping this man. I don't know. But, I feel I did what I could do and I feel good about that. I feel good about that. Absolutely, you should. And what I'm really interested in is, you're trying to keep this stuff from happening to other people, so, I mean, what can we do to prevent some of this stuff? Well, it's [00:55:00] difficult again, because these men are among us as wolves in sheep's clothing, and so they're difficult to spot. But a couple things. I think the first thing I would tell people is if something doesn't seem right. Keep your antenna up. Don't just ignore it or just don't think, oh, well that can't be true because he's the pastor. Mm-hmm. If it's behavior that you wouldn't accept in someone else, or it's something that you would question in someone else, then question it in the pastor or the choir director, whoever it is. Don't be blinded by the person. The persona that they're presenting to you. So that's the first thing I would say is keep your antenna up. The other thing is we, and we're churches, I think are doing better about this, but you've got to have policies in place that say, no, you're not taking a 16-year-old girl on your hospital visit with you. Yes. That's, that's not normal. That's not right. What is she doing going on a hospital visit with you in a car? And of course now we have the texting [00:56:00] and there should be absolutely no texting between a pastor, a youth minister, and anyone in the congregation. And that includes, no, don't forget the meeting for the church luncheon. No, there should be no texting because you, it's too hidden and it's too easily moved to the next step. And that's how it starts. You know, all of the abuse when it's someone you know, it always starts with small things and subtle things. It doesn't, innocent things. Innocent things that, yeah, that, that are innocent. But so that's why, so no texting. Yeah. So put in the policy, those places of, when you take a 10-year-old child to the bathroom, you make sure there's another adult with you. Absolutely. That's for your safety as well as for the child's safety. Mm-hmm. So I, I think we need to be aware. And then I would also say watch for the vulnerable in your, among your church or your group. Watch for the kid that's got issues at home and is looking for a father figure. Be aware that they're going to be more susceptible to someone who's a predator and pay [00:57:00] attention to their cues and kind of keep in touch with them as well in a sense of asking questions and how they're doing and be the kind of a person that they might feel comfortable coming to if something were to happen to them because they're the ones that are gonna be most vulnerable, to a predator. So that's kind of, an overview of what. Maybe a help to try and stop and prevent some of this. Yes, I like lots of video cameras. They're cheap now. You can put a camera, you can hide cameras all over the church facility and Yes. And I think too, talking to this about this issue to the congregation before anything happens, maybe having a person in your congregation who is the go-to person on this topic, who, who's researched what all these grooming and manipulation is so that they are even more equipped to, to notice the signs. So you have a person who's kind of in charge of that topic and then address it to the congregation once a year and say, here's our policy and here's what we expect of our pastors and here's what we would hope you would [00:58:00] do if you notice something. So it just brings it out so that people feel like if there is something that they know is going on or something's wrong, they feel comfortable going to someone about it. Those are all really great tips for leaders and, church members. So what, what if I am listening and I am being subjected to some of this stuff, what should I do? Well, what you need to do and what is the hardest thing to do is to tell someone. Yeah. And it's hard to do because when you're in an abusive relationship, you are being controlled by your abuser. And the narrative is what he is directing. And so he's going to tell you, look, you can tell anybody you want. They're not gonna believe you. And he tells you that over and over again. He's also going to tell you that you are going to be in trouble if you tell anyone. And then there's that problem of you sort [00:59:00] of care about this person. Here's someone that has been helping you, who's been your mentor, and you don't wanna get him in trouble. So with all those dynamics involved, it's very difficult for victims to come forward. But I am telling you, you don't wanna wait the 27 years that I did no. And live with this guilt and the shame and the angst and the anxiety. First of all, it's not worth it. You're not doing anyone any favors, especially yourself, because there is help out there. But they can only help you if you're able to be able to tell someone. And believe me, I understand how difficult that is. It's not easy. Mm-hmm. But I would hope that I hearing my story and others that you will understand that there is help out there and you need to tell someone. 'cause it won't end until you tell someone. And if you need to, you go to someone that you trust. And if you need to, you go outside the church. Yes. You tell someone you know is going to listen to you. [01:00:00] Hey, I tell my listeners, you can call me anytime mm-hmm. And email me and I'm sure you'd say the same thing. Exactly. Reach out to Sandy if mm-hmm. You need somebody to talk to. Mm-hmm. Or you don't know what is the next step I need to take here? Right. It is scary to make First step. It's very scary. Very scary. Absolutely. So then there's the rest of us, those that have not experienced clergy abuse, maybe we're members in the church, maybe we're friends or family. What are some helpful things for us to do to support a victim? Helpful things to say, maybe there's things we shouldn't say, well, that's a yes. First, I would say anytime you're aware of a victim of clergy abuse or anybody who's been abused, whether it's clergy or not, reiterate to that victim that it was not their fault and that there was nothing they could have done, should have done that would've prevented this. And by doing that, you are [01:01:00] telling that person they're free to speak to you. And victims need to hear it over and over again because we do blame ourselves. Children as young as five will blame themselves because they allowed someone to touch them 'cause mommy said not to. And the that guilt in that shame that victims carry, it's difficult to let go of it. So to hear someone say to us, it's not your fault is so freeing. So that's the first thing. The second thing I would say is. Let them know that you will listen to them without judging them, and you will hear their story without being shocked that you are able to say, tell me everything you need to tell me, or Tell me as little as you wanna tell me. Give them a comfort place to go to talk. And then I would say, and this is difficult for people who have spiritual lives or who are part of the church, be very much aware that things such as prayer and Bible reading and [01:02:00] scripture can be very triggering for those who've been abused in the church. Mm-hmm. So things that you would find comforting like prayer. Can be a very major trigger factor for victims. And so instead of saying to a victim, I'll pray for you, or Can I pray with you? The best thing you could say would be to phrase it in such a way as to say, I understand because of what you've been through, prayer can be difficult. And so I would like to pray for you, but I would completely understand if you don't want to pray or you won't, don't even want me to pray for you. And so you've opened up the door to say to this person, wow, I don't have to feel guilty because I can't pray. You know, when we've grown up in the church and we've been told how wonderful church and prayer and all those things are, we still carry that guilt too because we're no longer connected to God. So to have a person on the outside. Recognize that these can be trigger factors is again, a gift. It's a [01:03:00] gift. So those things I think would be the most helpful when dealing with a person of clergy abuse. And give them time. Don't push forgiveness. Don't push trying to get them back into church. 'cause some victims will never be able to go back to church if you let them find their own pace of time and you do it without judging them. And I know that's kind of hard sometimes for Christians and people in the church because we love the church and we find it to be such a wonderful place and we want this person back in the church. Yes. But it, it may not be the best place at that point for that victim. Such valuable advice. I That is awesome. And again, back to like, when you're talking about the sex education, open up the dialogue, you know? Yeah. Bring it up. Bring it up before they bring it up. Again, I read in the newspaper that this girl was molested by, a gym teacher. You know that, that ha I know that happens. And then let 'em know that if. It is, like you said, allowing that comfort to be able to [01:04:00] talk to someone. I think for me it was important to give my side of the story. No one had a clue that he was emotionally and verbally and physically abusive to me. They saw this as a little love affair and that we had this, magic little love affair. Evil temptress. Yes, exactly. And so I wanted them to know the full story. That was important for my healing too. And they did that. And, they welcomed me back to the church. I went back, I've been back a couple times for, a youth group reunion that we had. So, and that was difficult. But again, I thought that was necessary for me to move forward. I had to let go of my past. I had to figure out, not to forget it, but how was I going to incorpo

THE TIM JONES AND CHRIS ARPS SHOW 0:00 SEG 1 Today's Speaker's Stump Speech is brought to you by https://www.hansenstree.com/ , and it is titled “Quit crapping on Missouri’s constitution.” 18:32 SEG 2 DR. RANDY TOBLER, Host of The Randy Tobler Show on NewsTalkSTL Saturday mornings from 6-9 and co-host of Wake Up Missouri weekdays on 93.9 The Eagle in Columbia || TOPIC: News of the day | Randy Tobler is a musician. How does he feel about the Kennedy Center boycotts? | MTGx.com/RandyToblerMD bodyofhealth.com/ 33:05 SEG 3 Joey V’s Movies: “Song Sung Blue”, which is a biopic about a Neil Diamond tribute artist. Brought to you by https://www.facebook.com/HarryJsSteakhouse/ and https://www.amispizza.com/ https://newstalkstl.com/ FOLLOW TIM - https://twitter.com/SpeakerTimJones FOLLOW CHRIS - https://twitter.com/chris_arps 24/7 LIVESTREAM - http://bit.ly/NEWSTALKSTLSTREAMS RUMBLE - https://rumble.com/NewsTalkSTL See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

THE TIM JONES AND CHRIS ARPS SHOW Producer Joey V reviews “Song Sung Blue", which is a biopic about a Neil Diamond tribute artist. Brought to you by https://www.facebook.com/HarryJsSteakhouse/ and https://www.amispizza.com/ https://newstalkstl.com/movies/ 24/7 LIVESTREAM - http://bit.ly/NEWSTALKSTLSTREAMS RUMBLE - https://rumble.com/NewsTalkSTL See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

THE TIM JONES AND CHRIS ARPS SHOW 0:00 SEG 1 Today's Speaker's Stump Speech is brought to you by https://www.hansenstree.com/ , and it is titled “Quit crapping on Missouri’s constitution.” 18:32 SEG 2 DR. RANDY TOBLER, Host of The Randy Tobler Show on NewsTalkSTL Saturday mornings from 6-9 and co-host of Wake Up Missouri weekdays on 93.9 The Eagle in Columbia || TOPIC: News of the day | Randy Tobler is a musician. How does he feel about the Kennedy Center boycotts? | MTGx.com/RandyToblerMD bodyofhealth.com/ 33:05 SEG 3 Joey V’s Movies: “Song Sung Blue”, which is a biopic about a Neil Diamond tribute artist. Brought to you by https://www.facebook.com/HarryJsSteakhouse/ and https://www.amispizza.com/ https://newstalkstl.com/ FOLLOW TIM - https://twitter.com/SpeakerTimJones FOLLOW CHRIS - https://twitter.com/chris_arps 24/7 LIVESTREAM - http://bit.ly/NEWSTALKSTLSTREAMS RUMBLE - https://rumble.com/NewsTalkSTL See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

THE TIM JONES AND CHRIS ARPS SHOW Producer Joey V reviews “Song Sung Blue", which is a biopic about a Neil Diamond tribute artist. Brought to you by https://www.facebook.com/HarryJsSteakhouse/ and https://www.amispizza.com/ https://newstalkstl.com/movies/ 24/7 LIVESTREAM - http://bit.ly/NEWSTALKSTLSTREAMS RUMBLE - https://rumble.com/NewsTalkSTL See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Michael Imperioli is best known for his Emmy-winning portrayal of Christopher Moltisanti on "The Sopranos," a role that made him one of the most recognizable faces of prestige television. Some of his other credits include "Goodfellas," "Jungle Fever," "Summer of Sam" (which he also co-wrote), "The White Lotus," and his latest, "Song Sung Blue," the real-life story behind Neil Diamond tribute performers, where he plays Mark Shrilla, opposite Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson. On this episode he talks about the technical mountain he had to climb before he allowed himself to take on that role. Then he takes us back to his early days and two giant, back-to-back acting disappointments that somehow didn't break his drive; talks about how welcoming encouragement from directors like Martin Scorsese helped bring out the best in him; explains what's special about the New York acting community; and much more. Back To One is the in-depth, no-nonsense, actors-on-acting podcast from  Filmmaker Magazine. In each episode, host Peter Rinaldi invites one working actor to do a deep dive into their unique process, psychology, and approach to the craft.  Follow Back To One on Instagram

David Jacobson, creator and lead singer of Neil Forever, joins the show to talk about bringing the Neil Diamond tribute experience to The Factory on January 9. Jacobson explains how growing interest from a Broadway show and the new film Song Sung Blue has introduced Neil Diamond's music to new generations. He shares the origin of Neil Forever, the focus on authenticity with a full ensemble, the emotional response from audiences, and how the project has become a family effort. The conversation also touches on Neil Diamond's legacy, Parkinson's awareness through Drive Toward a Cure, and why live, feel good music continues to resonate post COVID.

Hour 3 opens with senior principal economist Molly Boesel of Cotality, who breaks down why giving up on homeownership can change how people save, spend, and invest. The discussion covers high home prices, large down payments, rising interest rates, low entry-level housing supply, high rents, and how today's housing costs have outpaced income growth, especially for younger buyers. The hour also explores the psychological impact of believing homeownership is out of reach and why home equity remains a key wealth builder in the U.S. The conversation then shifts to live music and tribute bands, including the renewed interest sparked by the film Song Sung Blue, followed by an interview with David Jacobson, creator and lead singer of Neil Forever. Jacobson talks about building a 14-piece Neil Diamond tribute, its family roots, audience response, connections to Parkinson's charities, and why Neil Diamond's music continues to resonate across generations.

The full show features former U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams breaking down a severe flu season, vaccine effectiveness, weather myths, and public health skepticism. Sports conversation follows with Joe Roderick covering the Blues loss to the Sabres, the Cardinals offseason, NFL playoff contenders, and Mizzou's Gator Bowl loss. Senior principal economist Molly Boesel of Cotality explains why high home prices, large down payments, rising interest rates, and low supply are reshaping homeownership and changing saving and spending behavior. The show also includes discussion of the Missouri Supreme Court removing Matthew Thornhil for inappropriate courtroom conduct, plus an interview with David Jacobson about his Neil Diamond tribute Neil Forever, the resurgence of tribute bands, and why live music continues to connect across generations.

Sean and Amanda have an action-packed show today where they cover three new releases. Before diving in, they react to the recent trailers for ‘The Odyssey' and ‘Avengers: Doomsday' and quickly discuss ‘Zootopia 2' and ‘Avatar: Fire and Ash' (1:38). Then, they discuss Paul Feig's ‘The Housemaid,' starring Sydney Sweeney and Amanda Seyfried, which they found disappointing and prompts a discussion about what type of movies are being made for women in 2025 (9:09). Next, they talk through ‘Anaconda,' starring Jack Black, which they describe as a cynical, depressing exercise in IP franchise filmmaking (38:37). Finally, they briefly touch on ‘Song Sung Blue,' a musical drama about a Neil Diamond tribute band starring Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson (50:00), before director Craig Brewer joins Sean to break down how his filmmaking career started, explain why music plays such a profound role in his work, and tell a fascinating story about the lengthy process behind casting Hudson (1:01:35). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Craig Brewer Producers: Jack Sanders and Jacob Cornett Shopping. Streaming. Celebrating. It's on Prime. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this "Quick Screen" episode, Michael checked out the brand new theatrical film "Song Sung Blue". What are some of his thoughts of this biographical musical dramatic film that based on the true story of Mike and Claire Sardina, who were the Neil Diamond tribute band "Lightning and Thunder" starring Hugh Jackman, Kate Hudson, Michael Imperioli, Ella Anderson, Mustafa Shakir, Fisher Stevens, and Jim Belushi? Check it out and see!Be a part of the conversation!E-mail the show at screennerdspodcast@gmail.comFollow the show on Twitter @screennerdspodLike the show on Facebook (Search for Screen Nerds Podcast and find the page there)Follow the show on Instagram and Threads just search screennerdspodcastCheck out the show on Bluesky just search screennerdspodcastBe sure to check out the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Goodpods, Overcast, Amazon Music or your podcast catcher of choice! (and please share rate and review!)Want to share your thoughts on the podcast? Send me an e-mail!Thanks to Frankie Creel for the artwork

Timothée Chalamet proves once again that he's the real deal in the whacky comic drama, "Marty Supreme." It's an offbeat character study from filmmaker Josh Safdie, set in the 1950s and involving the misadventures of a manipulative, conceited but somehow likable table tennis phenom. While fictional, it's inspired by the remarkable life of ping pong ace Marty Reisman. "Marty Supreme" is supremely watchable. Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson star in "Song Sung Blue," a biopic about a Neil Diamond tribute band called "Lightning and Thunder" that achieved a degree of success in Milwaukee in the 1980s. They experience extreme highs and lows in their personal and professional lives. The stars are very appealing, but if you're not a fan of Diamond's music, steer clear. Amanda Seyfried gives a strong performance in the unorthodox historical musical drama, "The Testament of Ann Lee." She portrays the title character, the founder of the Shaker movement who was considered by some of her followers as the second coming of Christ. She attempted to establish a utopian religious society in 1700s New England but met with ample hardships and considerable backlash. The music is a mix of original songs and hymns of the era. “The Testament of Anne Lee” is dark and dramatically erratic but oddly involving. Kate Winslet makes her directorial debut in the Netflix family drama, "Goodbye June." Winslet plays one of four siblings who come together when their mother, played by Helen Mirren, is hospitalized with terminal cancer during the holiday season. It's manipulative and obvious, but the sterling cast prevents “Goodbye June” from becoming too saccharine.

Show Date: 12/25/25Dan and Andy review the 1972 album "Moods" by Neil Diamond.Sports and Songs Podcast Links:https://www.facebook.com/sportsandsongs1https://twitter.com/SportsandSongs1https://www.instagram.com/sportsandsongs/https://www.sportsandsongspodcast.com/

In this week's episode of the world's-fastest-movie-review podcast, Jackson and Mike review THREE new films!!! First, "JAY KELLY" A well-known actor and his longtime manager travel through Europe as the actor reckons with aging, relevance, and unresolved personal relationships. Starring George Clooney, Adam Sandler, Laura Dern, and Billy Crudup. Then, a quick review of "SONG SUNG BLUES" A struggling couple reinvent themselves as a Neil Diamond tribute act, finding connection and second chances through performance. Starring Hugh Jackman, Kate Hudson, Michael Imperioli and Ella Anderson. And finally, a lightning-fast review of "AVATAR FIRE & ASH" The third chapter in the Avatar saga expands the world of Pandora by introducing a new Na'vi culture aligned with fire rather than water. The Sully family encounters the Ash People, a more aggressive clan whose values challenge the moral binary established in earlier films, forcing Pandora's future into deeper conflict. Starring Sam Worthington, Zoe Saldaña, Sigourney Weaver, and Stephen Lang.

We're wrapping up 2025 with an OnWriting Screenwriter Roundtable, featuring David Koepp, Craig Brewer and Kirt Gunn. The three writers joined us to discuss the origins and process behind their latest projects, how they develop their ideas over time, and much more. David Koepp is a writer and director known for writing the screenplays for films like Jurassic Park, Mission: Impossible, and Spider-Man, among many others. His most recent project is Black Bag, a mystery-thriller directed by Steven Soderbergh released in Spring 2025. Craig Brewer is the writer and director of Song Sung Blue, a musical biopic about a Neil Diamond tribute band, based on the documentary of the same name. Before Song Sung Blue, he wrote and directed films like Hustle & Flow and wrote on seasons 4 & 5 of the hit television series Empire. Kirt Gunn is a writer and director whose latest project is Roofman, co-written and directed by frequent collaborator Derek Cianfrance. --- Read shownotes, transcripts, and other member interviews: wgaeast.org/onwriting Follow the Guild on social media: @WGAEast OnWriting is a production of the Writers Guild of America East. The show is produced by WGA East staff members Jason Gordon, Tiana Timmerberg, and Molly Beer. Production, editing, and mix by Giulia Hjort. Original music is by Taylor Bradshaw. Artwork is designed by Molly Beer.

Christmas came early for Earth's Mightiest Critics, and we're here to share the love a roundtable preview review of Song Sung Blue!Craig Brewer's latest music-infused drama stars Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson as a Milwaukee-based Neil Diamond tribute act called Lightning and Thunder. Based on a 2008 documentary of the same name, this narrative biopic centers on the married couple's rise and fall--and examines lives lived in a spotlight that is also, oddly, a shadow.Join us as we get in tune and establish a rhythm for discussing this Awards Season (ahem) diamond in the rough!Support Kicking the Seat on Patreon, subscribe to us on YouTube, and follow us at:XLetterboxdInstagramFacebookShow LinksWatch the Song Sung Blue (2025) trailer.And catch up with our previous review of 2022's Avatar: The Way of Water.Support all of Earth's Mightiest Critics at their various outlets:Keep up with Jeff York's criticism and caricatures at The Establishing Shot and Pipeline Artists.Check out Mark "The Movie Man" Krawczyk's The Spoiler Room Podcast.Get seated with The Blonde in Front!Follow David Fowlie's film criticism at Keeping It Reel.Get educated with Don Shanahan at Every Movie Has a Lesson…...And Film Obsessive...and the Cinephile Hissy Fit Podcast.Keep up with Annie Banks at The Mary Sue....and We Got This Covered.Make Nice with Mike Crowley of You'll Probably Agree.And save your celluloid soul with Dave Canfield's Substack, "Creature Feature Preacher".

Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson talk Song Sung Blue, a heartfelt musical drama about love and second chances inspired by the real-life story of a couple who form a Neil Diamond tribute band called Lightning & Thunder.We also speak with Joachim Trier about his latest film, Sentimental Value, which won the Grand Prix at Cannes. The Norwegian drama starring Renate Reinsve, Stellan Skarsgard and Elle Fanning, explores a famed filmmaker's strained relationship with his two adult daughters.Plus, we revisit a conversation with creators Nicholas Stoller and Francesca Delbanco of Platonic, the Apple  TV comedy starring Seth Rogen and Rose Byrne that explores midlife friendship.Presenter, Jason Di RossoProducer, Sarah CorbettSound engineer, Harvey O'SullivanArts editor, Rhiannon Brown

Send me a text and please visit www.livefrommydrumroom.com Part 2 of my conversation with legendary Phil Spector's Wall Of Sound band and Wrecking Crew keyboardist, Don Randi. We continue our conversation about Don's work with the Beach Boys, also Sonny & Cher, Elvis Presley, Neil Diamond, The Jackson 5, Diana Ross and much more! So come along for the ride, and thanks for watching and listening. Please subscribe and visit livefrommydrum.com for all the latest news. Be sure to check out Part 1: https://youtu.be/aZj-c3rST80?si=xz1rY2LVMkI4RbetTo order Don's autobiography "You've Heard These Hands" https://store.wreckingcrewfilm.com/pr... or wherever you buy books! Live From My Drum Room T-shirts and Hoodies are now available! 100% of the proceeds go toward my PAS scholarship. Visit https://livefrommydrumroom.com for details! Live From My Drum Room With John DeChristopher! is a series of conversations with legendary drummers and Music Industry icons, hosted by drummer and music industry veteran, John DeChristopher, drawing from his five decades in the Music Industry. Created in 2020, and ranked BEST Drum Podcast, "Live From My Drum Room With John DeChristopher!" gives the audience an insider's view that only John can offer. And no drummers are harmed on any shows! Please subscribe!https://livefrommydrumroom.comwww.youtube.com/c/JohnDeChristopherLiveFromMyDrumRoom

Director Craig Brewer has made a career of telling stories about dreamers and misfits chasing something bigger than themselves, from ‘Hustle & Flow' to ‘Dolemite Is My Name.' Now he's back with ‘Song Sung Blue,' a film based on the true story of a Milwaukee couple who became local legends performing as a Neil Diamond tribute band. He spoke with Tonya Mosley. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Coming up on today's Movie Show, Andy and Rachel review  - Song Sung Blue - Lightning and Thunder, a Milwaukee husband and wife Neil Diamond tribute act, experience soaring success and devastating heartbreak in their musical journey together. They will also review  Marty Supreme and Anaconda.  Andy and Rachel will mention the Netflix movie, Goodbye June - Follows a group of fractured siblings who must come together under sudden and trying circumstances. It's Steve Salles last Movie Show, and we're sending him out with a BIG celebration!

It's that time of year on the Take when Mark runs down his best and worst films of the year—so get ready for a reminder of 2025's biggest raves and rants from I'm Still Here to Tron: Ares. It's all new content as he ranks the big-screen bangers and clangers of the last 12 months and picks the Take's best picture. We'll also look at the year's best small screen releases, revisiting stunning series like the gruelling Narrow Road to the Deep North and the gripping Pluribus (00:43:00 https://tv.apple.com/gb/show/pluribus/umc.cmc.37axgovs2yozlyh3c2cmwzlza). For Vanguardistas listening ad-free, Pluribus is at 00:39:31. Brand new reviews too of two new cinema releases. First up, Song Sung Blue—a feelgood musical drama biopic about a real-life couple who form a Neil Diamond tribute band and follow their long-held musical dreams, starring Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson. There's Peter Hujar's Day too—which follows the everyday life on the 70s Downtown New York arts scene of the titular photographer, played by Ben Whishaw. Plus we remember the greats we lost in 2025. We've said goodbye to some true cinema legends this year, including Robert Redford, Diane Keaton, David Lynch—and of course tragically and most recently Rob Reiner. Mark and Simon celebrate their exceptional contributions to cinema. Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free): 00:00:00 Start of Discussion 00:02:51 Song Sung Blue review 00:17:15 Best films of 2025: 00:30:20 Peter Hujar's Day review 00:36:12 Best TV of 2025 00:45:39 Worst films of 2025 00:56:45 They Lived Their Dash (obits) You can contact the show by emailing correspondence@kermodeandmayo.com or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: podcastadsales@sonymusic.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Director Craig Brewer has made a career of telling stories about dreamers and misfits chasing something bigger than themselves, from ‘Hustle & Flow' to ‘Dolemite Is My Name.' Now he's back with ‘Song Sung Blue,' a film based on the true story of a Milwaukee couple who became local legends performing as a Neil Diamond tribute band. He spoke with Tonya Mosley. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This week the Government set out its strategy to deal with violence against women and girls. This makes up nearly 20% of all recorded crime in England and Wales. Over the last year alone, one in every eight women was a victim of domestic abuse, sexual assault or stalking, according to Home Office figures. Educating boys on misogyny is a key aim of the strategy and figures show that nearly one in five boys aged 13 to 15 are said to hold a positive view of the self-proclaimed misogynist Andrew Tate, according to a YouGov poll. Alex Davies-Jones, the minister for Victims and Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls, joins Anita Rani to discuss the Government's strategy.Hollywood actor Kate Hudson's latest movie Song Sung Blue is based on the real life story of Wisconsin couple Mike and Claire Sardina. Kate plays Claire, who along with her husband Mike, played by Hugh Jackman, finds local fame in the 1990s as a Neil Diamond tribute act. Kate tells Anita about the appeal of the role and how she's now found empowerment and her voice.Woman's Hour celebrates the 250th anniversary of Jane Austen's birth. Nuala McGovern delves into the world that Jane was born into in 1775. She is joined by the author Gill Hornby, President of the UK Jane Austen Society, and by Dr Zoe McGee whose book Courting Disaster explores the issue of consent in Regency literature.According to a survey in the press this week, nearly half of younger women surveyed said they are confident in painting and decorating, compared with just 28% of young men. The stats are from the motoring and cycling firm Halfords who said its study revealed a reversal from previous generations. We hear from Vickie Lee, DIY YouTuber known online as The Carpenter's Daughter, alongside Caroline Henn, founder of bePractical DIY in Bristol, who runs courses aimed at making DIY accessible.We celebrate the phenomenon of female tribute acts to male bands. Gobby Holder, aka Danie Cox of Slady and Lolo Wood of The Fallen Women and Ye Nuns discuss.Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Dianne McGregor

President Trump's pointless primetime speech disappointed even his most ardent fans, the DOJ is required by law to release the Epstein Files on Friday, and the Academy Awards will move to YouTube starting in 2029. Emmy-winner Hugh Jackman bonds with Stephen Colbert over their respect for Neil Diamond and his immense catalogue of hits, and says that he hopes the uplifting tone of his new film will hit the right note with audiences during the holiday season. Watch “Song Sung Blue” in theaters on Christmas Day.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nick teams up with film critics Erik Childress and Steve Prokopy for an expanded round of movie talk as the year end release rush hits full speed. They dig into a packed slate that includes the newest chapter in James Cameron's Avatar saga, Timothée Chalamet's latest turn in Marty Supreme, and Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson fronting a Neil Diamond tribute band in Song Sung Blue. The conversation also covers Will Arnett as a down-on-his-luck stand-up comic in Is This Thing On?, Sydney Sweeney in The Housemaid, and the Brazilian thriller The Secret Agent, with a few more titles folded in along the way. With so many major releases landing at once, the discussion stretches out and takes its time, offering thoughtful reactions and plenty of back and forth between three longtime critics who know each other's tastes well. Esmeralda sits this one out, but the movie talk more than fills the space as the holiday film season kicks into high gear. [Ep 413]

Hollywood actor Kate Hudson's latest movie Song Sung Blue is based on the real life story of Wisconsin couple Mike and Claire Sardina. Kate plays Claire, who along with her husband Mike, played by Hugh Jackman, finds local fame in the 1990s as a Neil Diamond tribute act. Kate tells Anita Rani about the appeal of the role and how she's now found empowerment and her voice. Set up in 2015, the Undercover Policing Inquiry is one of the most complicated, expensive and delayed public inquiries in British legal history. At its heart is a series of very serious allegations of systematic abuses by undercover policing units over 40 years, which involved spying on tens of thousands of activists and led to relationships with women who did not know they were being spied on. The BBC's Ayshea Buksh has been following the inquiry closely and joins Anita to explain the latest revelations. Sophie Blake is a former TV presenter and now a campaigner for cancer charities. She is also a single mother living with stage 4 cancer. She joins Anita, along with her teenage daughter, Maya, to talk candidly about parenting through incurable cancer, what this means for their relationship and why time together, especially around the Christmas holidays, is that much more valuable.We hear a lot about young men moving to the Right politically, but at the last election young women swung just as strongly, if not more so, to the Left. Why is this so little discussed and what does it mean for the UK's political future? Guardian columnist Gaby Hinsliff has been exploring these issues in a new Radio 4 documentary, Left Out: the political radicalisation of young women - and the silence surrounding it. She and Scarlett Maguire from political pollsters, Merlin Strategy, join Anita.Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Corinna Jones

On the final Movie Madness episode for 2025, Erik Childress and Steve Prokopy review nine movies for the holidays. They include a documentary about Seymour Hersh breaking the stories on human rights atrocities (Cover-Up) while Wagner Moura is up against political turmoil in Brazil (The Secret Agent). Even water polo has bullies as it turns out (The Plague) and the job market becomes actual murder in the latest from Chan Wook-Park (No Other Choice). Will Arnett separates from Laura Dern and tries stand-up comedy (Is This Thing On?) while Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson get together to perform Neil Diamond tunes (Song Sung Blue). Sydney Sweeney goes to work for Amanda Seyfried's off-kilter family (The Housemaid) and Timothee Chalamat hustles his way to ping pong glory (Marty Supreme). Finally, James Cameron is back with the third of his Pandora films. Please let there not be a fourth (Avatar: Fire and Ash). We will return Jan. 2 with our choices for the best of the year with Collin Souter.3:42 - Cover-Up12:00 - The Plague20:01 - The Secret Agent31:07 - Is This Thing On?45:47 - Song Sung Blue1:00:00 - No Other Choice1:09:17 - The Housemaid1:24:03 - Marty Supreme1:39:30 - Avatar: Fire and AshCLICK ON THE FILMS TO RENT OR PURCHASE AND HELP OUT THE MOVIE MADNESS PODCASTSIGN UP FOR AUDIBLEBe sure to check outErik's Weekly Box Office Column – At Rotten TomatoesCritics' Classics Series – At Elk Grove Cinema in Elk Grove Village, ILChicago Screening Schedule - All the films coming to theaters and streamingPhysical Media Schedule - Click & Buy upcoming titles for your library.(Direct purchases help the Movie Madness podcast with a few pennies.)Erik's Linktree - Where you can follow Erik and his work anywhere and everywhere.The Movie Madness Podcast has been recognized by Million Podcasts as one of the Top 100 Best Movie Review Podcasts as well as in the Top 60 Film Festival Podcasts and Top 100 Cinephile Podcasts. MillionPodcasts is an intelligently curated, all-in-one podcast database for discovering and contacting podcast hosts and producers in your niche perfect for PR pitches and collaborations. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erikthemovieman.substack.com

Song Sung Blue Starring Kate Hudson and Hugh Jackman. Two down-on-their-luck performers form a Neil Diamond tribute band, proving it's never too late to find love and follow your dreams. In cinemas January 1st. My Brother's Band French film. Conductor Thibaut discovers he has leukaemia and needs a bone marrow donor. Learning of his adoption, he finds an older brother who works in a factory. Their reunion leads to a musical journey as the town faces a factory closure. In cinemas December 26th. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Seth takes a closer look at the White House doing damage control after Trump's current chief of staff said nasty things about the Trump administration in an explosive Vanity Fair article.Then, Kate Hudson talks about working with Hugh Jackman in the film Song Sung Blue and inviting herself over to Neil Diamond's house before pitching going day drinking with Seth and the cast of Running Point.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A look back at 2025 along with the updated version of Avatar and the new Neil Diamond film, Song Song Blue.

Emma Jones takes us through the third installment of James Cameron's epic project, as "Avatar: Fire and Ash" takes us back to the spectacular setting of Pandora. We discuss the message at the heart of the movies and the new additions to its cast. Next, director Kleber Mendonça Filho plunges us into 1970s Brazil thanks to a swinging soundtrack and anamorphic Panavision lenses, as Wagner Moura gives an award-winning performance in "The Secret Agent". We also check out a moving tribute to Neil Diamond and small-time musicians the world over in "Song Sung Blue", starring Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson. Plus Kate Winslet goes behind the camera for her star-studded directorial début, "Goodbye June".

On Monday afternoon, Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson stopped by the Vogue offices for a live conversation about their new film, Song Sung Blue which comes out Christmas Day. The project, inspired by the real-life story of Mike and Claire Sardinia—a Wisconsin couple who form a Neil Diamond tribute band is based on the documentary of the same name, which director Craig Brewer first encountered at a festival and later adapted for the screen. “I realized that everyone is living an extraordinary life,” Jackman shared to Chloe and Vogue's Deputy editory Taylor when reflecting on why he chose to take the role of Mike.After earning a Golden Globe nomination for her role as Claire, Kate speaks candidly about rediscovering her voice, crediting Sia (who she worked with on the film Music) with inspiring her to sing more freely. She recalls being pushed onto the microphone at her 16th birthday by her mother, Goldie Hawn, to perform “That's What Friends Are For,” with Quincy Jones in attendance. “He told me to get into the studio,” Hudson remembers.Plus, Hugh and Kate discuss what it's been like singing at bars across the world, what their tribute band would be (hint: Fleetwood Mac mentioned!), and answer a fun question from none other than Anna Wintour about whether or not they should adapt this film as a theater production.The Run-Through with Vogue is your go-to podcast where fashion meets culture. Hosted by Chloe Malle, Head of Editorial Content, Vogue U.S.; Chioma Nnadi, Head of British Vogue; and Nicole Phelps, Director of Vogue Runway, each episode features the latest fashion news and exclusive designer and celebrity interviews. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

The Los Angeles police are set to present their murder case against Nick Reiner, the son of Rob and Michele Reiner, on Tuesday to the district attorney. As the investigation continues, police are seeking a motive for the killings. There has been a wave of antisemitic incidents in Australia over the past year, and critics say the government response has not been forceful enough. Israeli actress and activist Noa Tishby, who served as Israel's special envoy for combating antisemitism, used to live near the site of Sunday's attack in Bondi Beach. Brian Walshe has been convicted of murdering wife Ana Walshe on New Year's Day 2023 in Massachusetts. The case drew national attention for the internet searches he made after his wife's disappearance. Jericka Duncan has the story. Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson are starring in one of this year's most anticipated movies, "Song Sung Blue," which is based on the real-life story of Mike and Claire Sardina. They join "CBS Mornings" to discuss their upcoming roles. George Strait, known as "the king of country music," has racked up more than 60 number one hits and the most certified platinum albums of any country artist. "CBS Mornings" takes a look back at the Kennedy Center honoree's storied career. Comedian Matt Rife is known for poking fun at everything and everyone. Now, he's taking on Santa. He joins "CBS Mornings" to preview his new Netflix special, "Matt Rife: Unwrapped - A Christmas Crowd Work Special." To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What'd you like? Send us a text.TALK: A 4-year-old elevator operator. The Neil Diamond musical. Opening for Jonathon Brandmeier's band. Animosity for Christmas. And prank kidnapping.SKETCHES: Holiday blacktop service. Baby shopping. Insurance for your blanket. A leftover restaurant. Plus, more.

Sitting down with Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson on their new movie “Song Sung Blue”, a true story of a couple who started a Neil Diamond cover band. Also, Simu Liu stops by to discuss his new Peacock series “The Copenhagen Test”. Plus, Jill Martin is live in Paris, France for a sneak peek at the “Emily in Paris” premiere celebrations.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Tracy Smith catches up with Hollywood superstars Kate Hudson and Hugh Jackman, who are working together for the first time in the new film “Song Sung Blue,” based on a real-life Neil Diamond tribute band. It's their first television interview together about the highly anticipated project. Lee Cowan talks with award-winning actor Jason Sudeikis in Kansas City about supporting his friend's charity that provides prosthetic limbs to amputees without health coverage. Seth Doane explores the remarkable resonance of Pride and Prejudice author Jane Austen and her novels to mark the 250th anniversary of her birth. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A signed naked Woody Christmas Card Hugh Jackman Hasbro's Toys For All Phone Alone Lady Gaga Tix See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hugh Jackman and Kate Hudson star in Song Sung Blue, a new movie about a Neil Diamond cover band named Lightning and Thunder. The film is based on real-life duo Mike and Claire Sardina, who fascinated both actors so much they couldn’t wait to play them. Hugh enjoyed working with Kate so much he even brought her into his one-man show! And let’s just say her performance was miles better than the time we made Hugh sing Les Misérables with Wippa...See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of the Top Five podcast, hosts Kris McPeak and her sister Annie Pruitt delve into their favorite songs about the USA, from John Cougar Mellencamp's classics to Brad Paisley's American Saturday Night.   They discuss their personal connections to each song, the artists' quintessentially American vibes, and the joy of discovering new music together. Highlights include a special note on Whitney Houston's iconic performance of the Star-Spangled Banner and a mutual love for Miley Cyrus's Party in the USA. Tune in for a celebration of American music that spans genres and generations.   And that playlist:  RIGHT HERE!!!  ENJOY!!   00:00 Welcome to the Top Five Podcast 00:49 Introducing the Theme: Songs About the USA 01:36 John Cougar Mellencamp's American Anthems 05:08 Madonna's Controversial Covers 06:53 Tom Petty's Iconic American Girl 08:58 Simon & Garfunkel's America 10:25 Neil Diamond's Patriotic Hits 12:27 The Beach Boys' Surfing USA 13:51 Ray Charles' America the Beautiful 14:27 Music Class Memories 15:14 Sugarland's Everyday America 16:24 Kim Wilde's Kids in America 17:58 Brad Paisley's American Saturday Night 20:29 Whitney Houston's Star-Spangled Banner 21:58 Miley Cyrus' Party in the USA 23:42 Recap and Final Thoughts

Join Lynn Hoffman on this Music Saved Me podcast episode replay with award winning, Grammy nominated singer, songwriter Sandy Knox. Learn the role of music as therapy and how Sandy Knox made her way to Nashville and became a successful songwriter .She has had songs recorded by Dolly Parton, Reba McEntire, Neil Diamond, Donna Summer and she is releasing "Weighting-My Life if it were a musical" which is a new groundbreaking audio book that also includes 21 original songs. You'll love Sandy's authenticity on music saved me and she clearly knows the healing power of music in our lives. Support the show: https://musicsavedme.net/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.Support the show: https://takinawalk.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Let's celebrate Thanksgiving 1970s-style, by watching Martin Scorsese's concert documentary of the last performance by The Band (or at least the Band with Robbie Robertson still part of it). It's not just a concert, of course--it's a meditation on the end of the 1960s counterculture, bookending Scorsese's earlier work in Woodstock. We also have an interview with Mary's mother about cinematography, editing, and keeping up with music when you age out of youth culture. Starring Rick Danko, Levon Helm, Garth Hudson, Richard Manuel, Robbie Robertson, Eric Clapton, Neil Diamond, Bob Dylan, Emmylou Harris, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, The Staples, Dr. John, Muddy Waters, Paul Butterfield, Ronnie Hawkins, Ringo Starr, Ron Wood. Directed by Martin Scorsese. This is a reposting of a recent episode without any copyright issues, to get past YouTube's blocker.

Join Lynn Hoffman on this Music Saved Me podcast episode replay with award winning, Grammy nominated singer, songwriter Sandy Knox. Learn the role of music as therapy and how Sandy Knox made her way to Nashville and became a successful songwriter .She has had songs recorded by Dolly Parton, Reba McEntire, Neil Diamond, Donna Summer and she is releasing "Weighting-My Life if it were a musical" which is a new groundbreaking audio book that also includes 21 original songs. You'll love Sandy's authenticity on music saved me and she clearly knows the healing power of music in our lives. Support the show: https://musicsavedme.net/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.Support the show: https://musicsavedme.net/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We're kicking things off with Cody’s epic snowman revenge in Kentucky... he built it on a fire hydrant to stop car-crashers, and it worked brilliantly. Kylie Kelce spills on the tunes that get tigers in the mood (yes, really), while John Legend clears up how he legally became Legend without touching the porn industry. Kim Kardashian is dropping her “Ten Kimmandments” MasterClass, and Hugh Jackman & Kate Hudson gave a surprise Neil Diamond tribute performance in NYC. We also marvel at a paralysed man using a brain implant to finally order a beer, and chuckle at the raccoon in Virginia that went on a full-on booze bender.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.