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Summer rewind: Ontario's electricity sector is evolving, as the province navigates the transition to cleaner energy amidst rising demand. In thinkenergy episode 135, we explore the grid's structure and key players, highlighting the crucial role of distributors (Local Distribution Companies or LDCs) in facilitating this transition. Guest Teresa Sarkesian, President and CEO of the Electricity Distributors Association (EDA), sheds light on LDCs' frontline efforts and contributions shaping the energy landscape. Related links   Teresa Sarkesian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresa-sarkesian-53898613/   Electricity Distributors Association: https://www.eda-on.ca/  Green Button information: https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/green-button  Electrification and energy transition panel report: https://www.ontario.ca/document/ontarios-clean-energy-opportunity-report-electrification-and-energy-transition-panel  Ontario Electricity Support Program: https://ontarioelectricitysupport.ca/  Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-cem-leed-ap-8b612114/ Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en     To subscribe using Apple Podcasts:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405   To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl   To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/ --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited   Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa   Stay in the know on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HydroOttawa   Keep up with the posts on X: https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod     Trevor Freeman Hey everyone. Well, it's officially summer, and the think energy team is taking a break to recharge over the next two months, but also to plan our content for the fall. So stay tuned for some great episodes in the fall. Not to worry, though, we still have our summer rewind to keep you engaged. This is where we pick out some of the great past episodes that we've done and repost them. So whether you're lucky enough to be sitting on a dock or going on a road trip or if you're just keeping up with your commute through the summer, it's a great time to revisit our past content. You will hear past episodes from my predecessor and the host chair, Dan Sagan, as well as a couple of mine from the past few months, and you're welcome to check out your own favorite past episodes as well. Wherever you get your podcasts. We hope you have an amazing summer, and we'll be back with new content in September, and until then, happy listening.   Trevor Freeman  0:07   Hi, welcome to think energy, a podcast that dives into the fast-changing world of energy through conversations with industry leaders, innovators and people on the frontlines of the energy transition. Join me Trevor Freeman, as I explore the traditional, unconventional and even up and coming facets of the energy industry. If you've got thoughts, feedback or ideas for topics that we should cover, we'd love to hear from you. Please reach out to us, at think energy at hydro ottawa.com Hi, everyone, welcome back. Now it's no secret that Ontario's electricity sector is transforming rapidly as it moves to both decarbonize the grid itself, you know, we have a very clean grid in Ontario, but it's not totally carbon free. And to support the growing demand for electricity as our customers across the province, take steps to electrify and change how they use energy. The show is all about exploring those changes, among other things, and today is no different. But before we dive into our conversation today, I think it would be helpful for me to spend just a few quick minutes on some basics about how our electricity grid is structured in Ontario, and who some of the key players are. Now I know some of our listeners will know this already, but it can be hard to keep track of all those key players. And Ontario's structure is a little different than some of the neighboring jurisdictions no two jurisdictions are exactly alike. So, a refresher is never a bad thing. Now the most basic description is that electricity is largely generated at central generation facilities. So, think nuclear power plants are your electric generating stations, some gas fired generating stations and large-scale wind and solar installations. We call these entities generators simple as that. That electricity is then transmitted across the province in an interconnected grid of high voltage transmission lines, which also connect to other jurisdictions such as neighboring provinces and states, and Ontario, Hydro One runs the transmission network. Now you've probably seen this transmission network. These would be the large metal towers that you see out in the middle of a field when you're driving along the highway or in rural areas that have electricity wires strung way up high in the air. The last stage before it gets to the end user is called distribution. So, this is where electricity is taken from those high voltage lines stepped down to a usable voltage for residential and commercial customers via transformers and substations, and then distributed over a network of overhead and underground wires, then these would be the wires that you would see at the top of those wooden or composite poles that are along the side of the road in your neighborhood. The entities that run this distribution part are called distributors, again, simple as that. So, there's a few other key players that are worth mentioning here. Energy Policy is primarily the jurisdiction of the provincial government, who sets the general direction and associated rules and regulations accordingly. The Ontario Energy Board or OEB is the regulatory body who governs what all those other players do and enacts the government mandate. And finally, at least for today's purposes, we have the system operator. It's called The Independent Electricity System Operator in Ontario, or IESO, who runs the system. So, if you're in Windsor, Ontario, or Ottawa, or North Bay, and you want to turn on your air conditioner, or plug your EV in to charge, the IESO is responsible for making sure there's enough power on the grid to handle that load. So, I hope everyone is still with me and feel free to pause and do some jumping jacks if that was a lot to take in. Our conversation today is going to be focused on the role of the distributor. So, for full disclosure, as you know, I work for hydro Ottawa who is one of those distributors, we serve most electricity customers in the City of Ottawa, and the neighboring village of Casselman and in Ontario, you will often hear distributors referred to as local distribution companies or LDCs. So forgive me if I slip into that acronym throughout the conversation today, that's really just the sort of common name that we refer to those distributors as. But I'll try to mix it up and make sure that, that I'm explaining that acronym throughout as well. So the distributor is really the front line, the customer facing entity of the entire electricity system. If you are an electricity customer, and you think about the electricity system, you are probably thinking about your distributor. Chances are you get your bill from a distributor, even though for most customers, most of what you pay on that bill doesn't actually go to the LDC. Some of it stays with your local distribution company, but most of it goes to the transmitter to the generator, to the IESO etc. When the power goes out, it's probably your LDC that you call and it's your LDC that will give you a restoration time. Sometimes outages are caused by issues up the line, so to speak in the transmission portion of the grid. But often the issue is a localized one. And it's your LDC that is identifying the problem and fixing it, whether that means rolling a truck to string new cable, or performing switching to work around the problem. And finally, it's your LDC that is really on the frontlines of the energy transition. While all parts of the grid must then have started to change, the LDCs are really working hand in hand with our customers to identify where and how fast and new demand is needed to bridge that gap between customers and policymakers to enable more and more renewable generation. And also to determine what new technologies or programs we need to pilot and scale up. And it's really the LDCs that are driving change in the way that electricity is managed at the individual customer level moving forward. So to help us make some sense of this, I'm happy to have Teresa Sarkesian on the show today. Teresa is the president and CEO of the electricity Distributors Association, which is a role that she's held since 2016. This is actually Teresa second time on the show the first being back in December 2021. So we're happy to have Teresa back, Teresa, welcome back to the show.   Teresa Sarkesian  6:23   Thanks so much, Trevor. I'm really delighted to be back.    Trevor Freeman  6:27   Yeah, we're glad to have you. So, like I said, you were back on our show in 2021. I don't know if it's because of how COVID has changed our lives or if this is just the way things go. But sometimes, you know, weeks seem like years. So 2021 is a long time ago. Let's start by refreshing our listeners on the role and mandate of the electricity Distributors Association.   Teresa Sarkesian  6:49   Sure thing so the electricity Distributors Association, or the EDA our little acronym represents Ontario's public and private electric utilities that distribute electricity to 5.4 million homes, businesses and institutional customers across the province. And I should note that those 5.4 million customers really refers to build accounts so you have families that are behind a build account. So effectively the millions and millions of Ontarians and businesses that operate and live here are customers of our utilities. And as you know our members are on the front lines of power, and have developed a strong trust with their customers by providing safe, reliable and affordable service for over 100 years. The EDA itself provides analysis and networking and advocacy for our members to ensure that the energy policy direction and framework in Ontario is fair and balanced, supporting the financial viability of utilities to deliver service and ensuring affordability for customers. And long term, we are looking to ensure that our local distribution company members can become the premier energy solution providers to their customers, and that they're able to provide the value-added services that customers are already expecting from them but are going to grow with the energy transformation and electrification in the future.    Trevor Freeman  8:09   Yeah, it's kind of like I said, when people think about the electricity sector, they're probably thinking about their distributor. And the EDA is kind of that common voice for those distribution companies. So, you first joined the EDA back in 2009, and have been the president and CEO since 2016. So, we'll look ahead and talk about the future in a minute. But before we do that, tell us about how things have changed so far during your tenure. How are things different from 2009 When you first joined the organization?   Teresa Sarkesian  8:40   Yeah, and you know, this is almost like perfect timing, Trevor, because I've been at the association now for 15 years, I'm just marking my 15-year anniversary. So, feels really apropos to kind of reflect and look back. So, I want to break down my answer into two parts. So, I'm going to talk to you about some, I guess, just my own personal observations about the electricity system at large. And then I'm going to talk more about the changes in distribution. But some of the changes that I thought were really quite significant and profound, sort of when I joined the industry in 2009, I joined at a time when there was the Green Energy Act, and the province was looking to connect all kinds of renewable energy generation to the electricity grid. So that was fairly significant. Another thing that was happening with the province is that they closed down coal fired generation. That was pretty massive. In fact, I think, at the time, it was the largest kind of carbon reduction initiative in North America. And I think even to this date today, I think it still is something that Ontario really has to be proud of. Another thing that you know, at the time, I think that was you know, fairly significant in 2015 is just the expectation of what the demand would be. What was interesting, sort of like the past for 15 years, the demand from customers for electricity was actually flat or declining. And that's all changed. Now. 15 years later, we're, we're now forecasting, massive increases in in demand of energy, which could potentially be doubling in the future. And the other point I'd like to make is just the nuclear renaissance that we're having. I think when I joined the sector in 2009, I'll tell you, I think the public opinion of nuclear was actually quite low. And that's been completely turned around lots of geopolitical events around the world, I think, have driven that. And now that nuclear is having a huge Renaissance. And you're seeing, you know, lots of new investments in nuclear. And we're not talking about shutting down reactors anymore. We're talking about refurbishing and expanding. So those are some of the things that I've observed over the last 15 years that have really changed. And for local distribution companies, I think what I have seen is a growing expectation by both government and the regulators for electric utilities to do more to both support the grid reliability and meet growing expectation from customers. So, I started in the sector in 2009, it was right on the brink of implementation of smart meters, and time of use. And what was interesting is that was mandated, there were very few jurisdictions in the world that actually had mandated smart meters and time of use pricing. So again, Ontario is was one of the first. And so that was a big change for LDCs. To move from, you know, smart meters and having to bring in that technology and also support the technology of time of use. I did mention the Green Energy Act at the time, we suddenly had to connect 1000s and 1000s, of new solar and wind generation, as well. And that was all new. There were no protocols, there were no standards for that. So that was fairly significant as well. And when I kind of fast forward to I guess, more recently, there have been a lot of changes from government, I think they've really supported our industry, they understand the trust that we have, with our customers. And they've implemented, you know, a number of new changes in terms of rate structures, they've asked us to implement ultra low-rate pricing that can support overnight electric vehicle charging. And they've also asked us to introduce a green button digital platform that allows customers to download their energy data and share with third parties for you know, different assessments and tools for lowering energy costs. But it's all not, you know, unicorns and kittens, there's challenges to for our sector, grid resilience was, you know, not really, people talked about it in 2009, but not like they're talking about it now, because of climate change. And we are seeing more frequent storms, causing, you know, obviously, outages for the customer, and also significant damage to the distribution grid. And I know that hydro Ottawa has faced more than its fair share of very destructive storms over the past few years, we have Yes, I can't remember which Victoria Day weekend where we had, I didn't ever know how to say it the derecho or the derecho. So there, we weren't getting storms we've never even heard of before. And unfortunately, I think that is our new normal. So, grid resilience is something that we are very concerned about, and we need to make sure we've got the appropriate investments for that. So those are just a few of the highlights that, you know, when I came into the sector sort of things that were kind of ramping up, and then what's happening now, but I guess what I could say, the commonality is there's constant change in the sector. And what I'm seeing going forward is that change is going to be accelerated.    Trevor Freeman  13:40   Yeah, I mean, it's, it's fascinating to listen to you lay it all out like that. Thinking back to 15 years ago, it's hard to even remember, you know, not having smart meters, having meters that really just ticked forward and measured your consumption over the course of a month, and someone would come and read that. And, you know, having declining or even flat demand profiles that aren't increasing is so different from the world that we are in today. But I think what you said there at the end is really important. We are in our industry, an organization that knows about change, we're constantly changing, which helps us as we look forward into your point, we're going to see that level of change and the pace of change accelerate. So, I think that sets us up pretty well. So, let's start to look forward, then I know that the EDA is about to launch a new vision paper. So, we're going to dive into some of the details. But maybe let's start by kind of a high-level summary of what is the vision that you are trying to lay out with this paper?   Teresa Sarkesian  14:42   Okay, and no problem. So, I think what I want to start just give a little bit of background as to why we did this. We've done a couple of vision papers and implementation plans in the past. But you know, they were like seven, eight years ago and things have changed a lot even in Seven or eight years. So, what we've been seeing, obviously, I think the big change over the last few years has been the big focus on meeting Net Zero targets in 2050, that we are going to get to net zero in terms of our greenhouse gas emissions. Not only in Canada, but this is actually a bit of a global commitment, you know, for countries that have signed on to that objective. So, what happens when you set up, you know, those big audacious goals? You have all kinds of organizations and entities looking at how are we going to get there, how much it's going to cost? What do we need to do to get there? And so when we started reviewing some of these publications, both in Ontario, Canada, and actually in other jurisdictions, they were very good. They talked about what supply mix that we need the investment in transmission, but almost 100% of the papers, Trevor, if you can believe this, just neglected distribution, no one talked about distribution, they didn't talk about how distribution is going to have to change what the investments would be. And then we'll so we said it's going to be critical for us to identify the electric utility role and the energy transition, and how the sector will need to be grid ready to support electrification, economic development, grid resilience, and customer preferences. So we view that LDCs are going to be pivotal in enabling Ontario's low carbon economy, navigating the challenges posed by climate policies, electrification trends, and these evolving customer demands. And with Ontario's growing economy and the demands for housing intensify, LDCs must innovate to effectively meet these accelerating electricity needs and changing preferences. And right now, we've seen the ISO is predicting significant consumption growth from 144 terawatt hours in 2023, to 240 terawatt hours and 2050 not quite double, but it's getting close. And so this rapid growth demands urgent attention to adopt new strategies and to ensure that the local distribution companies can make the necessary investments in grid enhancements to expand the capacity and capability of the distribution system. So while reliability and affordability remain Paramount customers do expect additional value from their utility service. And, you know, we are seeing all sorts of things that are happening, you know, such as the need for swift electric vehicle charging installation, and other upgrades that will increase the electrical load. We see that LDCs are more frequently interacting with businesses that seek utility partners to achieve their energy management, sustainability and ESG goals. And in parallel, the LDC must prepare to respond to increase climate change induced extreme weather events. So recognizing the essential role of LDCs in the energy transition, we've worked in collaboration with industry experts to outline a vision of the role of utilities, so they can enable economic development, housing growth and electrification. And the report identifies urgent and practical steps that LDCs in partnership with the government, and its agencies must take in the near term to achieve the benefits of this transition. So what you'll see in the paper is recommendations related to the need for clear policy direction on regulatory frameworks to support LDCs in becoming grid ready, and with a continued focus on affordability and enabling a customer choice and opportunity. And we also discuss issues like workforce needs. And we also emphasize the role of human capital in enabling technological advancements. So that's very high level what it is, and I will get into it a bit more as we have our discussion further.   Trevor Freeman  18:41   Yeah, I think it's a good way to frame it of the entire sector is changing at all levels. But what you're really doing is laying out that vision that roadmap for the distributors, in particular, and I think that's great. Maybe like, Who is the audience for this paper? Who are you kind of directing this at?   Teresa Sarkesian  18:59   Well, we're still putting the crossing the T's and dotting the I's., but I think it's about 80 pages. So, it's not going to be for everyone, obviously, you know, government decision makers, government, policymakers, people that work in their regulatory agencies and our energy board, the Independent Electricity System Operator, we did try to make it accessible. There is an executive summary that's about two or three pages, which I think will be of great interest to a lot of people to read. And I think it gives a very kind of a high-level overview of what's in the document. So that's something that we're trying to do. And, you know, obviously our LTC members are an audience as well. They've been working with us hand in glove the last few months we've had extensive member meetings we had a board committee that helped steer this paper. But you know, ultimately, the paper is really focused on our customers because its customers and businesses that are driving a lot of this change for the future, whether it's businesses that are on their own journey on environmental, social and governance ESG objectives, and they're looking for more low carbon communities to invest in its customers who are very interested in EV charging, and maybe what the opportunity for the batteries can be to sell that storage back to the grid. It's, it's really the customers that are driving this change.    Trevor Freeman  20:31   Right Yeah, and I mean, the nature of this medium is I don't know who's out there listening. But I'd encourage, you know, all of our listeners, when this comes out, take a look at it and get some insight into kind of how the distributors role is laid out there. So let's dive into some of the details. You know, you outline obviously, some of the traditional roles and functions of the LDCs. So from maintaining, owning and maintaining the infrastructure, the poles and wires, and doing customer metering and billing, that stuff's not going away, we're gonna keep doing those things. But you also highlight some of these emerging roles that have begun to appear, or that we'll see in the next couple of years, you know, a more of a focus on distributed energy resources, like solar on roofs, for example, that LDCs are going to have to work to both enable as well as integrate into our own systems. It's going to include things like more customer programs, and rate design, etc. I'm curious, you know, how are LDCs going to balance that traditional role that we've already been doing, along with this rapidly new expanding set of roles that we need to tackle?    Teresa Sarkesian  21:38   That's a great question, Trevor. So look, LDCs will continue, as we always have been to be responsible for safe, reliable and affordable delivery of electricity to customers, customers can count on us to do that 24/7. And even with all these anticipated grid expansions, we're not going to be shut down, if the critic dispatches so, you know, we're experts at multitasking in our sector, and we will continue to do so. And with the increases, as you mentioned, in distributed energy resources, and electrification, there are the pressures for us to adapt, modernize and change how we ensure the safety and reliability in the service to customers. And the emerging roles and responsibilities aren't something that's in the distant future. You know, as I mentioned before, changes the constant, we have been engaging in ongoing adaptation. And so when I think about the future, and I think about what we call grid modernization, it really is part of the ongoing continuous improvement, and the pursuit of the digital utility of the future, that every utility is on that journey. So you know, utilities have been bringing in new technologies, particularly related to information technology, communications, and digital solutions. And so while we're in early stages, we are expecting our members to become more digitally based in the future, they're going to be introducing advanced distribution management systems to monitor the grid. And they're also going to have distributed energy resource management systems to monitor all the connections that are behind the meter. So I think what is different now than in the past, is simply that the pace of change is being dramatically accelerated. So for example, it took us about 100 years to get the grid to its current size, yet, we need to almost double the current grid in 25 years. So we have to move four times as fast. And the grid is not going to be built with just simple poles and wires and one way energy flow like it has been for basically the last 100 years, it's going to be a lot more complex, we're going to see two way energy flows, so it's not just us sending power to the customer one way, they're potentially going to be selling back their energy generation or their energy storage back onto the grid. So we need to have that temerity, that two way, power flow. So that's going to be a big change. And we also expect there to be a lot more customer interaction. They want to leverage their own generation and storage behind the meter. And we as utilities, want to be able to leverage that to help us with you know, reliability, Storm outage, other emergency situations. So we see there's going to be a greater interactive relationship with customer than simply, you know, maybe sending a bill to them or offering them conservation programs, it's going to be much more dynamic than it has been in the past. And so, you know, over the last two decades, and we talked about this a bit already, the utility has been modernizing the system in response to government policy initiatives, regulatory requirements, and customer preferences. One other example, recently, utilities were required to implement something called green button. And we've been also engaging by bringing them more into the system through net metering. And a lot of our members are also involved in various pilot projects with the Independent Electricity System Operator and with Enercan to look at all kinds of new LTC models and functions. So and you're going to see a lot of this actually, in our vision paper is that to really be effective, cost effective. To make sure this happens at the accelerated pace, we do need for there to be proactive policy and regulatory changes, to remove barriers and empower LDCs to embrace these new evolving roles in shaping the future of the energy sector. And as I mentioned before, customers are demanding it. And I want to point out a research report that came out by the International Energy Agency just late last year. And they made it very clear that in quite a number of countries around the world, the lack of the regulatory permission to provide more investments in the distribution system is now becoming a significant barrier to new renewable energy projects connecting on the system. And while we don't have that situation here in Ontario, if we don't start moving quickly, in terms of reforming the regulatory context, then we might be like some of these other countries, and we don't want to be that a barrier, you want to be able to enable what our customers want on the grid.    Trevor Freeman  26:07   Yeah, so I'm going to ask you a question about that last point in a minute. But I think your framing of the ways that the sector is going to change, and the way our customers are going to interact with us is going to change is really great. And it's something that you know, often comes up in conversation. And I often say, there is no single strategy or tool here, we can't solve the coming challenges with just more poles and wires. We can't solve it with just new innovative solutions, we need all of those things, we need more poles and wires. But we also need more programming, more innovation, more technology, we need to utilize those distributed energy resources out there on the grid. So, I think that's a great way to frame it. Okay, so let's talk about grid planning a little bit. So LDCs play a really key role in helping forecast the needs of the future, both for our own distribution systems, but also feeding up into those broader provincial needs. So, the insight that we gain from our customers, we pass up to the IESO, for example, so that they can do planning at the provincial level. Traditionally, this is a pretty consistent process. You know, in the past, we get a sense from municipalities and developers, how cities are going to expand and grow. And we've generally been able to count on the typical home using roughly the same amount of electricity as homes that are out there today. So, we account for a certain expansion of commercial customers based on the Intel that we get from those customers. And we know roughly what they're going to use. The problem is that model's kind of being turned on its head a little bit. So, we now need to account for even our existing customers increasing their load because they are electrifying or they want to add EV chargers. And new developments today are likely going to have increased demand compared to some of the historical developments, because we're going to see all electric communities or at the very least more electrified and uses. So I know you don't have a crystal ball yet that tells us exactly how this change is going to happen. But what are LDCs doing to adapt their long term grid planning to account for this uncertainty?   Teresa Sarkesian  28:22   Yeah, you're so right, Trevor forecasting is getting more challenging. And I just want to start with a little story before I get into my answer about that. So, you know, electric vehicles are kind of the hot thing right now. And you know, although people I think are still on a waiting list for certain cars, there's lots of others that are available. And so one of the concerns that our sector had was we didn't know where these electric vehicles were going to pop up. And we weren't getting any kind of pre advanced warning when people started making orders or, you know, advanced purchases for electric vehicles. So we actually did a great advocacy campaign, with the province with both the Ministry of Energy of the Ministry of Transportation, to secure postal code data for utility, so they could see where people were going to be purchasing electric vehicles to help them with their own planning, in terms of, you know, making sure that their local feeders were upgraded their local transformers, and so that just got announced a year ago. But that's obviously not going to be good enough. And that just tells us about electric vehicles, you know, in the near term, but this is I think, you know, having sightlines into our customer behavior, whether we do that proactively with you know, consultations and communications with customers, or we can do it by you know, pinging the meter, or getting data such as postal codes. We are going to have to, you know, adapt and have greater visibility and sightlines into the customer. And so this is that some of that technology that I was talking about earlier, the sophisticated future grid is going to need lots of visibility and transparency, for usage and investment to be able to, you know, look at these two way power flows, look at how customers are behaving, in order to better plan the system, we also need to maximize and optimize the data that we have, you know, from our planners, it's going to be vital to protecting the grid reliability and resilience, we're going to have to have more partnerships with municipalities, in terms of their energy planning for the future and things that they want for their community. And, you know, one of the things that we're asking for on our paper is actually to, you know, rethink the distribution system plan, that the utilities have to file with the OMB every five years, and start building in a, you know, Grid Modernization plan within that broader plan. So we can get the regulator to start looking ahead and seeing what these requests are, it'll be important to also have various performance metrics and filing guidelines for grid modification from the energy board. So you know, these are some of the things I think that the membership is going to have to look at but it is going to be a very iterative experience, because it's just it's the pace of change is the big unknown. And so everyone talks about these things. But you know, I saw something today, I think it was from Ford Motor Company, and they're kind of slowing down, it's taken them a while to retool their plants. So that could take an extra two years now for them to be up and running and producing electric vehicles. So there's going to be all these other pieces of the puzzle that are constantly going to be changing a moving and evolving. It is I think, planning for the future is going to be very challenging. And I do expect the province to start talking about this higher level, maybe starting at the end of this year, they just came off a massive exercise related to the energy transition electrification panel. And I do expect to see more guidance from the province as well, in terms of how they're going to manage this planet, because it's not just planning for us. It's planning for everybody else in the system, too.    Trevor Freeman  32:02   Yeah. And for listeners out there, if you haven't had a look at that energy transition electrification panel reports, a really fascinating read. So I'd encourage you to take a look at it. You mentioned a lot of interesting things there. So for our listeners, and I'll probably do a future episode on this so I won't get into detail, but LDCs typically have to file five year rate applications once every five years that really lay out their plans for those five years and how they're going to fund them. So coincidentally, hydro Ottawa was getting ready to do our next one. And like I said, I'll probably talk about that on a future episode. But one thing we did when it comes to forecasting is, we conducted a electrification study that looks at if we electrify by 2050, like our plans, say we will and you know, society wise, what does that mean for the grid? And some of the inputs we took is, you know, what are the federal plans for electrification? What are our own municipal plans for electrification? What are we hearing from our customers, and that really, is helping us modify and change how we do grid forecasting, based on some of the changes that we're seeing from our customers. So I think this is a really important piece that, like you said, we're going to need to iterate on we're not going to get it right the first time. But we're starting to think of how do we need to change the way we do things in order to keep up with what our customers are doing.   Teresa Sarkesian  33:28   I think one thing I've seen more of the last few years, because this is much more complex than it's been in the past that I've seen, like the IESO, for example, they've done more, you know, scenario setting. So when they've had their, you know, their APO's and AER safe, they sort of had other two or three scenarios, and they're constantly updating their numbers every year. So these are other changes that we're starting to see. And even myself, I was just looking at the provincial budget detail the other day, they also set out, you know, scenarios as well. They're just not picking Oh, it's going to be, you know, X amount of deficit. And you know in 2028 they're actually forecasting out different scenarios. So I think that's another piece I see more in play, that people will, you know, showcase what assumptions they have, and will have maybe two or three different scenarios as well.    Trevor Freeman  34:21   Yeah, and I think it's a, it's a great way to tackle that unknown component to where we've never really been through a change like this before. We've never wholesale changed the way we use energy in our society. So there's a degree of uncertainty, obviously, and I think, targeting out that kind of, let's call it high, medium, low scenario, or whatever the metric might be, is going to be really critical for us to make sure we're staying within the boundaries of what's possible and what's probable and refining that constantly as we move forward. So that's a great point. Something else you mentioned a little bit ago, that's, you know, could be a bit of a nebulous term is grid modernization now I've actually got a future episode, and specifically about grid modernization and what hydro Ottawa is doing, I think it might actually be our next one. So we don't need to go into all the details on this. But let's just help our listeners understand what do we mean when we're talking about grid modernization? And why is this important? Why is it important to our customers that we do this kind of back office improvement?   Teresa Sarkesian  35:23   So I'm going to keep it really simple, because I know you're going to do a deep dive on it and a future episode. But essentially, Grid Modernization are improvements that LDCs will make simply to augment our capabilities, and enable us to offer new or improved services to customers. So back office improvements might look like things like real time sensing, and monitoring systems to improve efficiency and reliability. Or we may be investing in new digital infrastructure communication systems to improve safety, cybersecurity, it can also include more visible improvements to safeguard our infrastructure against extreme weather, and climate change to reduce outages. And like one, I guess, example that some of your customers might already be recognizing, you know, we made investments in green button, which enables customers to download their data, send it to a third party if they want to save on customer use. So it really is the whole soup to nuts, it really is not just one type of technology or solution. It is a combination of a whole series of things that the that the utility will need to do. And I think why we want to do it, I think when we look at all of the pressures on the system, from NetZero objectives to housing priorities, you know, to accelerate broadband development, and support electrification, the pressures seems to be never ending. And the only way that we can respond to all those pressures, is to be grid ready. And, you know, like I said, it's it is a form of continuous improvement. It's just that now it's the pace accelerated pace is such so extraordinary, that we need to have a more dedicated plan. But most importantly, we have to make sure we have dedicated attention by policymakers and regulatory decision makers as well. Because right now, there isn't that dedicated attention to this very important task. Yeah,   Trevor Freeman  37:28   Yeah, I mean, it's, it's great that you bring up all these pressures that we're feeling that it's I think it's time we kind of talk about that elephant in the room, our customers often ask us about affordability, or we're hearing from our customers about affordability, I was actually at a customer event not too long ago, and talking about the change that we're going to see here talking about some of this, you know, large scale transition of our of our energy sector. These are not small investments that we have to make. We're talking about both an increase of our infrastructure, you know, you mentioned almost doubling the capacity of the grid. We're talking about modernizing our grid systems, that's a lot of back office work with new technology, and bringing on new programs. Like this is a big change. Energy affordability is already a kind of a challenge today for some folks. So as we get into this new investment that we have to make as we start moving down the path of the energy transition, how do we balance affordability, especially for our vulnerable populations, with the level of investment that we know is necessary to do the things that we have to do? Yes,   Teresa Sarkesian  38:42   Yes, that's the multibillion-dollar question, Trevor. And it's something I'm going to carve out my response, because there's some things that we've put into our vision paper for the future, because affordability is absolutely critical. And as you know, this is basically a massive restructuring of the economy going forward. So, there's may be other participants who might be playing a funding role. So, you know, right now, obviously, you know, customers aren't monolithic, and you know, residential customers who are struggling to pay bills. Do you have some programs that they can, that they can access, they have the low income Energy Assistance Program, they have the Ontario electricity support program. Some of those are funded by the tax base, some are funded by other electricity customers. The province also gives a rebate to customers in Ontario, and that's a pretty big rebate. I don't think a lot of residential customers are aware of it but it is over 7 billion annually to residential small business customers. That's a lot of money. But I don't know if customers really appreciate that. So I don't know what's going to be available going forward. These are some of the challenges that you know policy makers, you know, have to address as well. So, when we were thinking about this as part of our paper, we sort of looked at it from a number of perspectives. So, the federal government has set up all these Net Zero targets, they've set out, you know, targets for electric vehicle manufacturing, as well. And so it might be appropriate for them to share part of the burden with this massive energy transformation. And it's interesting, we actually pulled customers about 2000 Customers two years ago, we asked them a whole series of questions about the changes going forward. And customers do have different perspectives about who should be paying for some of this energy transition. So when we asked them about who should be paying for electric vehicle, charging infrastructure, and they said, Oh, electricity, customers should pay for that, because that's something that everyone's going to benefit from. When we ask them about, you know, who should be paying for the electricity grid, to address climate change and hit Net Zero targets, they actually the majority, 58% said, the taxpayer should be paying for that. So I think that's just a very interesting data point. But it's something that, you know, we've been active on in terms of having those conversations with the federal government, saying that, you know, you have offered different subsidies to attract different companies to invest in Ontario, based on our clean grid, but we need to have the whole grid support it. So, you know, we're pursuing federal government support, we also are looking at increased maybe private equity engagement in in our sector. So right now, we have a couple of private members, but there's not a lot of private equity money in the sector, most of our members are municipally owned, and municipalities can't invest in their utility, probably even if they wanted to, because they're in short supply of funds as well, they have their own taxpayer that they have to deal with. So one of the solutions we are putting forward to government is to increase the private equity threshold, so it doesn't trigger additional taxes, right now, it's only 10% ownership. But we're saying that maybe a tool in the toolbox should be up to 49% ownership. So it would allow private equity to come the patient capital, they're not maybe looking to seek a return right away. So there's some you know, flexibility there as well. Another thing we're looking at is to revisit the debt equity ratios of utilities to manage the costs over the long term. So you'd be effectively amortizing on some of those grid investments as well. So these are some of the ideas that we have around how we can basically fund the energy transition going forward. You know, and some people say, Well, if you could get customers to think about their energy usage holistically, so if they're going to be, you know, moving away from a, you know, a combustion engine car, and they're going to be using heat pumps, instead of, you know, natural gas heating in their home, if you could get people to think holistically what they're saving on the kind of, you know, GHG side of things, versus what they are going to be spending on electricity, they may actually be spending less if they look at it holistically, but I don't really know, to be honest with you, so that I'd rather focus on the things that we could ask government for, as opposed to asking customers to be, you know, thinking more holistically at their entire energy usage, which is just not how they think. And I think, to change that behavior, would be quite a monumental task going forward. But those are some of the things that we think about, because we are very concerned about the affordability going forward, because it is such a massive change that we're all experiencing.   Trevor Freeman  43:50   Yeah, I think this is another example of there is no single solution here. There is no you know, silver bullet that's going to help us pay for all of this, we need all the tools on the table here, we need to look at all different options. And I think you outlined a couple of them, you know, in what you said about our customers impression of some of this change and who should pay for it. Last episode, I talked to David Coletto, from Abacus data, and he was saying on the whole Canadians really believe that a an electrified energy system, we know once we make that transition, we will be more secure, it will be more affordable. And I think those customers who have made some transition in their lives can see the benefit of that. But sometimes the initial hurdle is pretty hard to get over that upfront capital cost. And so looking for ways, both at the customer level as well as at the utility level, the LDC level I think is going to be important to help get over that initial capital outlay that's required, so that we can realize those benefits that we all know where they are that we know we'll see. So . Yeah, great filling some of those out. So I know I mentioned that I will get back to this. But I do want to talk to you about the advocacy role that the EDA plays. So you mentioned, you know, talking to governments and Ontario, the provincial governments across Canada, the provincial government has jurisdiction over most energy matters. So advocacy to the government is a key role that you play. I'm curious, what are you asking the government to do or to provide to help some of these changes that we're talking about happen? What is the advocacy that you're pushing for with the government.   Teresa Sarkesian  45:32    So I'm going to try to keep it really simple and just sort of, you know, tie it back to our vision paper for now, because at any given time, I'm working on 20 or 30 l policy issues, primarily with the Ontario government. But this past year, we have expanded our work to also include the federal government, because they have investment tax credits that we are interested in for our members to see if they could be eligible for those. We're interested in them changing things to the Canada Infrastructure Bank, also to provide new sources of equity there. And we're also pursuing grants, as well, for grid modernization. So provincially, a whole whack of issues. But I'm going to go back to our paper just to give your audience a little bit of a sneak peek on some of the things that we're going to be asking for. So one of the first things we're going to be asking for is to get a common understanding and definition of grid modernization, and electrification. And this is not really new of an idea, we kind of have copied it from the US, there's a lot of jurisdictions, there where very clear objectives that have been set out in order to justify grid modernization, investments. So we think that it'd be beneficial for Ontario to do that, because then once you have those objectives in place, it is going to make it a lot easier to be able to prioritize grid modernization capabilities, functionalities, and investments in line with those objectives. You know, and then from there, you know, we're looking at creating a series of foundational investments. So going forward, some of the things that we think are foundational, are things like the distributed energy resource management systems and the advanced metering infrastructure, which is sort of like smart meters 2.0, for lack of a better term, and also the advanced distribution management systems. So we see those are going to be foundational pieces that all utilities are going to need to be able to help customers interact with the grid, and they're going to be necessary grid investments. So how what we see for those is we would like it to be similar policy direction, like we had for smart meters and green button, where you have government mandated activities. And then those are given, you know, a kind of lower standard of evidence with the Ontario Energy Board to support that capital infrastructure, they're deemed as priorities and ties back to that initial plan, where you set objectives, as long as those objectives can be that then those should get a pass through.   Trevor Freeman  48:12   If I could jump in right there just for our listeners. So what Teresa is describing here is, at the moment when there are unique things that are not part of government mandate, yet every LDC and Ontario, of which there are many 60, something I don't even have the number in front of me but every LDC when it comes time to enact that project has to go through a whole exercise of justifying it proving why it's necessary, saying this is why we want to do it. If there was some commonality across LDCs in the province, we wouldn't have to put as much effort into, you know, the report writing side of it, we could just get down to business and make these changes that we all know across the province are important. So I think it's helpful for us to understand how that process works.    Teresa Sarkesian  49:00   Yeah, and thank you for interjecting on that, Trevor, because if government wants us to move fast, we can, but we need that certainty. So you know, we're no different than any even though we're regulated monopolies. We're really no different than any other business that wants to do business in Ontario, you're always looking for certainty and clarity, from legislation from policy from regulation, because the uncertainty is what slows things down. Another recommendation that I'm moving forward with is that we need to move beyond pilot projects. I had a conversation with a consultant who is working with Enercan on this and they want to move beyond I love their term, death by demonstration. We've got a couple of dozen pilot projects currently in the sector, whether they're funded provincially through the IESO or they're funded federally through Natural Resources Canada, and you know, there's some very exciting results that are coming out of those. But some of those pilot projects have been going on for all almost four years, in one case, almost five. And at some point you need to pull off the band aid said, Yes, this is a success, all LDCs would be eligible for funding in this. So we need to be able to scale it up. Or we just say no, that's not going to work. But being in this constant state of the pilot projects, while it's informative, at some point, someone has to have the courage to say we're moving forward, this is going to be scalable. Another recommendation we have is to create an action plan to develop a comprehensive human resource strategy to address quantity quality, and partnership aspects of the labor force going forward. There's some great work that electricity, Human Resources Canada has done. And, you know, DC 28,000, replacement and new jobs in our sector, by 2050 and that's, the electricity sector at large across Canada. And I did some, I think back of the envelope calculations to try to figure out, okay, some assumptions about distribution. And we're looking at close to 10,000 new positions in the sector, over the next 25 years. Every sector is having challenges, filling current jobs, never mind jobs, that we're not even sure what they are quite yet. So we don't necessarily have the right programs at the universities and colleges or private training institutions to start getting the right people and talent into our organization. And, you know, so we need help for that. And, you know, I am encouraged, I saw a little announcement out of the province yesterday to have more electricians down on the Chatham Kent area, because that's the whole greenhouse industry. And so I said, Okay, that's exciting. So people are starting to pay attention, but we need it more than just in one local community, it needs to be province wide. And, you know, like I mentioned before, we need to have more conversations about what the funding models are going to be to fund the energy transition. So these are some of the issues and recommendations that we're taking forward from our vision paper. But day to day, I guess that's the other thing, I want to mention in terms, the change I've seen, I've never seen us work on so many issues, prepare so many submissions, invest so many staff at various tables and working groups. And we love doing all that work. We love representing our members at every table of discussion possible, but I've never seen so many. And they're not just oh, you're there for a month, and you're done. Some of these they are multi year. So they have longer legs, because they are far more complex. But you know, we're working every day, you know, for members that way. Very, very proud to represent our sector think it's a fantastic sector. And the fact that they're going to play such a pivotal role in the future makes us only want to work harder to make sure we get the best of everything for our membership.    Trevor Freeman  52:54   Yeah, I know, we echo that at our level, we can certainly see a lot more stakeholdering and engagement happening with all players in the sector, but especially the government as they figure out this energy transition to right, let's not, you know, let's not forget that the government needs to figure out where policy needs to go to lead it, and it's a great role that you're playing to kind of bring the voice of the distributors to the government. Because again, as we've talked about a couple of times, we're really on the front lines, and we're hearing from our customers, and we're seeing what needs to change right at that customer level, in order to enable some of this stuff that's happening so that that conversation between the LDCs and the government I think is really important. So you know, we don't work in a vacuum, I just mentioned a number of stakeholders in our sector. And I highlighted the interconnected nature of our grid at the beginning of our conversation. There are a lot of different players working together to really, at the end goal is bring power to the customer. How do you see the existing model changing or expanding in terms of, you know, the kinds of partnerships that LDCs have moving forward? So you know, you mentioned private equity is being a potential upcoming role. There are things like technology companies that are developing innovative solutions, who, you know, we maybe were a bit more arm's length with in the past. There's a changing nature of our relationship with the customers, you brought up the idea of going from one way power flow to kind of two way back and forth. arrangement. How do you see that partnership evolving in the future?   Teresa Sarkesian  54:30   Well, I think the good news is, there's a very strong foundation knowledge to build on. So I'm going to talk about three different areas. I'm going to talk about sort of shared services across utilities, and I'll talk about a partnerships with the private industry. And I'd like to talk about the engagement with customers as well. So firstly, there's lots of shared services going around in the industry already. There's all kinds of partnerships that members are trying to reduce costs for customers and find the best solution. So instead of saying, having 60 utilities run, seek out the best solution, you know, you get everyone working collaboratively to find a solution at the best price for customers. So we've seen a lot, just in my 15 years I've been there you've got in the past, there was, you know, common delivery of conservation programs, members work together on common engineering standards, lots of mutual aid assistance agreements across among utilities, for Storm Recovery. I've seen shared billing services, bulk purchasing products, and shared control room practices and services. And I've seen private sector play a much bigger role in utilities, as well. I've had the privilege to attend some openings, and launches of micro grids, where you have maybe a solar company and an energy storage, battery company, that are part of that group with utility, creating a micro grid for their community to provide maybe warming and cooling charging services when there's a major outage, for example. And I've seen now, some smart grids, you know, one that's already been implemented up in the north that has a significant private sector partner. And I've seen it also there's a new one, that's another one in the north, that's going to be developed with a private sector partner. And I've seen, not just Ontario businesses, I've seen what businesses come in one of our members is doing a distribution system operator pilot model with a partner in from Norway. So I'm really encouraged, I think the foundation is already there to kind of build on all those successes we already have, and do more, you know, and we talked about the customers going forward as well, that they're going to be to help playing a role, or we hope they're going to be playing a role. Because there's a lot of energy, battery storage and solar generation, sort of behind the meter, whether it's a farm, or it's a residential customer, or it's a big industrial customer. And so we want to be able to optimize all of those resources into the system to be of benefit to all customers to reduce costs. But we'd have to give an incentive to those customers to participate, no one is going to let you know a utility access their, you know, solar panel generation or their battery storage, unless they're going to be getting paid to do so. And I think that's going to be really important going forward, because we don't want to over build the grid, I mean, the grid is going to be so big, going forward. And we have to find ways to avoid over building it. Because we don't want to be in a situation where you know, customers are having to pay too much for a grid that's not properly optimized. So trying to find solutions behind the meter, that will maybe either avoid or delay bigger generation investments or transmission investments, or even actually distribution investments, we want to optimize that. But right now, there's not really a lot of permission to do that. So we need to get that legislative and regulatory permission to do that, to turn those, you know, more passive customers into prosumers, that they're basically your their proactive customers by selling their energy storage back to the grid. So I'm really optimistic. I think we've got a great foundation work to do on the customer peace, letting them participate as prosumers and the system, but I'm pretty optimistic that that we can get that job done.   Trevor Freeman  58:27   Yeah, I think it really highlights, there's a lot to be excited about when it comes to the change, that's going to happen. There's a lot of opportunity out there both for the LDCs, for the other stakeholders for our customers, that this energy transition, this change is going to bring about, you know, there's some challenges to I know, he talked about the challenges. I wonder, though, what do you see, as you know, one of the single biggest are a series of risks to achieving the vision that you've outlined in the paper, how could this go off the rails and not happen the way we need it to happen?   Teresa Sarkesian  59:03   Well, I always like to be glass half full as opposed to half empty, but you're taking me down that road? Trevor? So I'm going to answer that question.    Trevor Freeman  59:11   It's my job.    Teresa Sarkesian  59:11   So you know, obviously, our vision for the future role is big, but it's practical. The energy transition is upon us now. It's not something to contemplate for the future. So we think that the biggest risk is effectively inaction or kind of, you know, kicking the issue down the road, 510 years. We're seeing this right, nearby jurisdictions in the US are taking action. There's been significant funding out of the Biden administration, for all kinds of initiatives from you know, cybersecurity, to grid modernization down there. They're doing they're very competitive. They want to attract businesses, to the US. And so, you know, that's a major competition for Ontario. So if we don't seize the opportunities to kind of start working on these important issues now, we could lose economic development opportunities, we could lose jobs, we could lose investment, we could lose our talent as well, that may want to move to another jurisdiction. So to mitigate that risk, the LDCs, and policymakers have to work together on developing a shared vision around electrification and grid modernization, develop a plan of action and create a realistic timeline to turn that vision into reality.   Trevor Freeman  1:00:26   Yeah, it's a it's a great point. And I think it's important for people to understand that change is happening, the change is going to happen, whether we want it to or not. And, you know, often sometimes people say, Are we are we really going to see this change? I think we're already seeing it, we're already seeing customers want to change the way they interact with energy. The risk here is if we don't react quick enough or properly enough, the costs of that change becomes higher the reliability of the grid that we're working with, goes down, that general customer experience is not where it needs to be. And then you've highlighted some other ones, you know, we can really struggle with talent if we're not offering them the kind of cool innovative roles that they're looking for. But the neighboring jurisdiction is, so it's not so much that the change may or may not happen, it's how do we react to it in a way that really serves all of our stakeholder the best. So, Teresa, this has been a really great conversation. And I really appreciate you taking the time to join us and chat with us today. I think there's a number of things that we talked about today that really set up future conversations I'm going to have nicely. So thanks for the half for teeing that up. And this is your second time on the show. No doubt, there'll be a third time because I think there's a lot more that down the road, we can we can pick apart. So thanks for that. We typically end our interviews here with some common questions to all our guests. So to start off, what is a book that you've read that you think everybody should read?   Teresa Sarkesian  1:01:56   So one I recently enjoyed it's by a friend too. By Darrell Bricker, he wrote Empty Planet, and that is very, very good talks about actually declining global population. And what that means from everything from, you know, businesses to climate

Ontario's electricity sector is evolving, as the province navigates the transition to cleaner energy amidst rising demand. In thinkenergy episode 135, we explore the grid's structure and key players, highlighting the crucial role of distributors (Local Distribution Companies or LDCs) in facilitating this transition. Guest Teresa Sarkesian, President and CEO of the Electricity Distributors Association (EDA), sheds light on LDCs' frontline efforts and pivotal contributions shaping the energy landscape. Related links   Teresa Sarkesian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresa-sarkesian-53898613/   Electricity Distributors Association: https://www.eda-on.ca/  Green Button information: https://www.oeb.ca/consumer-information-and-protection/green-button  Electrification and energy transition panel report: https://www.ontario.ca/document/ontarios-clean-energy-opportunity-report-electrification-and-energy-transition-panel  Ontario Electricity Support Program: https://ontarioelectricitysupport.ca/  Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-cem-leed-ap-8b612114/ Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en     To subscribe using Apple Podcasts:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405   To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/ Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited   Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa   Stay in the know on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HydroOttawa   Keep up with the posts on X: https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod     ...   Transcript: Trevor Freeman  0:07  Hi, welcome to think energy, a podcast that dives into the fast-changing world of energy through conversations with industry leaders, innovators and people on the frontlines of the energy transition. Join me Trevor Freeman, as I explore the traditional, unconventional and even up and coming facets of the energy industry. If you've got thoughts, feedback or ideas for topics that we should cover, we'd love to hear from you. Please reach out to us, at think energy at hydro ottawa.com Hi, everyone, welcome back. Now it's no secret that Ontario's electricity sector is transforming rapidly as it moves to both decarbonize the grid itself, you know, we have a very clean grid in Ontario, but it's not totally carbon free. And to support the growing demand for electricity as our customers across the province, take steps to electrify and change how they use energy. The show is all about exploring those changes, among other things, and today is no different. But before we dive into our conversation today, I think it would be helpful for me to spend just a few quick minutes on some basics about how our electricity grid is structured in Ontario, and who some of the key players are. Now I know some of our listeners will know this already, but it can be hard to keep track of all those key players. And Ontario's structure is a little different than some of the neighboring jurisdictions no two jurisdictions are exactly alike. So, a refresher is never a bad thing. Now the most basic description is that electricity is largely generated at central generation facilities. So, think nuclear power plants are your electric generating stations, some gas fired generating stations and large-scale wind and solar installations. We call these entities generators simple as that. That electricity is then transmitted across the province in an interconnected grid of high voltage transmission lines, which also connect to other jurisdictions such as neighboring provinces and states, and Ontario, Hydro One runs the transmission network. Now you've probably seen this transmission network. These would be the large metal towers that you see out in the middle of a field when you're driving along the highway or in rural areas that have electricity wires strung way up high in the air. The last stage before it gets to the end user is called distribution. So, this is where electricity is taken from those high voltage lines stepped down to a usable voltage for residential and commercial customers via transformers and substations, and then distributed over a network of overhead and underground wires, then these would be the wires that you would see at the top of those wooden or composite poles that are along the side of the road in your neighborhood. The entities that run this distribution part are called distributors, again, simple as that. So, there's a few other key players that are worth mentioning here. Energy Policy is primarily the jurisdiction of the provincial government, who sets the general direction and associated rules and regulations accordingly. The Ontario Energy Board or OEB is the regulatory body who governs what all those other players do and enacts the government mandate. And finally, at least for today's purposes, we have the system operator. It's called The Independent Electricity System Operator in Ontario, or IESO, who runs the system. So, if you're in Windsor, Ontario, or Ottawa, or North Bay, and you want to turn on your air conditioner, or plug your EV in to charge, the IESO is responsible for making sure there's enough power on the grid to handle that load. So, I hope everyone is still with me and feel free to pause and do some jumping jacks if that was a lot to take in. Our conversation today is going to be focused on the role of the distributor. So, for full disclosure, as you know, I work for hydro Ottawa who is one of those distributors, we serve most electricity customers in the City of Ottawa, and the neighboring village of Casselman and in Ontario, you will often hear distributors referred to as local distribution companies or LDCs. So, forgive me if I slip into that acronym throughout the conversation today, that's really just the sort of common name that we refer to those distributors as. But I'll try to mix it up and make sure that, that I'm explaining that acronym throughout as well. So, the distributor is really the front line, the customer facing entity of the entire electricity system. If you are an electricity customer, and you think about the electricity system, you are probably thinking about your distributor. Chances are you get your bill from a distributor, even though for most customers, most of what you pay on that bill doesn't actually go to the LDC. Some of it stays with your local distribution company, but most of it goes to the transmitter to the generator, to the IESO etc. When the power goes out, it's probably your LDC that you call and it's your LDC that will give you a restoration time. Sometimes outages are caused by issues up the line, so to speak in the transmission portion of the grid. But often the issue is a localized one. And it's your LDC that is identifying the problem and fixing it, whether that means rolling a truck to string new cable, or performing switching to work around the problem. And finally, it's your LDC that is really on the frontlines of the energy transition. While all parts of the grid must then have started to change, the LDCs are really working hand in hand with our customers to identify where and how fast and new demand is needed to bridge that gap between customers and policymakers to enable more and more renewable generation. And also to determine what new technologies or programs we need to pilot and scale up. And it's really the LDCs that are driving change in the way that electricity is managed at the individual customer level moving forward. So, to help us make some sense of this, I'm happy to have Teresa Sarkesian on the show today. Teresa is the president and CEO of the electricity Distributors Association, which is a role that she's held since 2016. This is actually Teresa second time on the show the first being back in December 2021. So we're happy to have Teresa back, Teresa, welcome back to the show.   Teresa Sarkesian  6:23  Thanks so much, Trevor. I'm really delighted to be back.   Trevor Freeman  6:27  Yeah, we're glad to have you. So, like I said, you were back on our show in 2021. I don't know if it's because of how COVID has changed our lives or if this is just the way things go. But sometimes, you know, weeks seem like years. So, 2021 is a long time ago. Let's start by refreshing our listeners on the role and mandate of the electricity Distributors Association.   Teresa Sarkesian  6:49  Sure, thing so the electricity Distributors Association, or the EDA our little acronym represents Ontario's public and private electric utilities that distribute electricity to 5.4 million homes, businesses and institutional customers across the province. And I should note that those 5.4 million customers really refers to build accounts so you have families that are behind a build account. So effectively the millions and millions of Ontarians and businesses that operate and live here are customers of our utilities. And as you know our members are on the front lines of power, and have developed a strong trust with their customers by providing safe, reliable and affordable service for over 100 years. The EDA itself provides analysis and networking and advocacy for our members to ensure that the energy policy direction and framework in Ontario is fair and balanced, supporting the financial viability of utilities to deliver service and ensuring affordability for customers. And long term, we are looking to ensure that our local distribution company members can become the premier energy solution providers to their customers, and that they're able to provide the value-added services that customers are already expecting from them but are going to grow with the energy transformation and electrification in the future.   Trevor Freeman  8:09  Yeah, it's kind of like I said, when people think about the electricity sector, they're probably thinking about their distributor. And the EDA is kind of that common voice for those distribution companies. So, you first joined the EDA back in 2009, and have been the president and CEO since 2016. So, we'll look ahead and talk about the future in a minute. But before we do that, tell us about how things have changed so far during your tenure. How are things different from 2009 When you first joined the organization?   Teresa Sarkesian  8:40  Yeah, and you know, this is almost like perfect timing, Trevor, because I've been at the association now for 15 years, I'm just marking my 15-year anniversary. So, feels really apropos to kind of reflect and look back. So, I want to break down my answer into two parts. So, I'm going to talk to you about some, I guess, just my own personal observations about the electricity system at large. And then I'm going to talk more about the changes in distribution. But some of the changes that I thought were really quite significant and profound, sort of when I joined the industry in 2009, I joined at a time when there was the Green Energy Act, and the province was looking to connect all kinds of renewable energy generation to the electricity grid. So that was fairly significant. Another thing that was happening with the province is that they closed down coal fired generation. That was pretty massive. In fact, I think, at the time, it was the largest kind of carbon reduction initiative in North America. And I think even to this date today, I think it still is something that Ontario really has to be proud of. Another thing that you know, at the time, I think that was you know, fairly significant in 2015 is just the expectation of what the demand would be. What was interesting, sort of like the past for 15 years, the demand from customers for electricity was actually flat or declining. And that's all changed. Now. 15 years later, we're, we're now forecasting, massive increases in in demand of energy, which could potentially be doubling in the future. And the other point I'd like to make is just the nuclear renaissance that we're having. I think when I joined the sector in 2009, I'll tell you, I think the public opinion of nuclear was actually quite low. And that's been completely turned around lots of geopolitical events around the world, I think, have driven that. And now that nuclear is having a huge Renaissance. And you're seeing, you know, lots of new investments in nuclear. And we're not talking about shutting down reactors anymore. We're talking about refurbishing and expanding. So those are some of the things that I've observed over the last 15 years that have really changed. And for local distribution companies, I think what I have seen is a growing expectation by both government and the regulators for electric utilities to do more to both support the grid reliability and meet growing expectation from customers. So, I started in the sector in 2009, it was right on the brink of implementation of smart meters, and time of use. And what was interesting is that was mandated, there were very few jurisdictions in the world that actually had mandated smart meters and time of use pricing. So again, Ontario is was one of the first. And so that was a big change for LDCs. To move from, you know, smart meters and having to bring in that technology and also support the technology of time of use. I did mention the Green Energy Act at the time, we suddenly had to connect 1000s and 1000s, of new solar and wind generation, as well. And that was all new. There were no protocols, there were no standards for that. So that was fairly significant as well. And when I kind of fast forward to I guess, more recently, there have been a lot of changes from government, I think they've really supported our industry, they understand the trust that we have, with our customers. And they've implemented, you know, a number of new changes in terms of rate structures, they've asked us to implement ultra low-rate pricing that can support overnight electric vehicle charging. And they've also asked us to introduce a green button digital platform that allows customers to download their energy data and share with third parties for you know, different assessments and tools for lowering energy costs. But it's all not, you know, unicorns and kittens, there's challenges to for our sector, grid resilience was, you know, not really, people talked about it in 2009, but not like they're talking about it now, because of climate change. And we are seeing more frequent storms, causing, you know, obviously, outages for the customer, and also significant damage to the distribution grid. And I know that hydro Ottawa has faced more than its fair share of very destructive storms over the past few years, we have Yes, I can't remember which Victoria Day weekend where we had, I didn't ever know how to say it the derecho or the derecho. So there, we weren't getting storms we've never even heard of before. And unfortunately, I think that is our new normal. So, grid resilience is something that we are very concerned about, and we need to make sure we've got the appropriate investments for that. So those are just a few of the highlights that, you know, when I came into the sector sort of things that were kind of ramping up, and then what's happening now, but I guess what I could say, the commonality is there's constant change in the sector. And what I'm seeing going forward is that change is going to be accelerated.   Trevor Freeman  13:40  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's fascinating to listen to you lay it all out like that. Thinking back to 15 years ago, it's hard to even remember, you know, not having smart meters, having meters that really just ticked forward and measured your consumption over the course of a month, and someone would come and read that. And, you know, having declining or even flat demand profiles that aren't increasing is so different from the world that we are in today. But I think what you said there at the end is really important. We are in our industry, an organization that knows about change, we're constantly changing, which helps us as we look forward into your point, we're going to see that level of change and the pace of change accelerate. So, I think that sets us up pretty well. So, let's start to look forward, then I know that the EDA is about to launch a new vision paper. So, we're going to dive into some of the details. But maybe let's start by kind of a high-level summary of what is the vision that you are trying to lay out with this paper?   Teresa Sarkesian  14:42  Okay, and no problem. So, I think what I want to start just give a little bit of background as to why we did this. We've done a couple of vision papers and implementation plans in the past. But you know, they were like seven, eight years ago and things have changed a lot even in Seven or eight years. So, what we've been seeing, obviously, I think the big change over the last few years has been the big focus on meeting Net Zero targets in 2050, that we are going to get to net zero in terms of our greenhouse gas emissions. Not only in Canada, but this is actually a bit of a global commitment, you know, for countries that have signed on to that objective. So, what happens when you set up, you know, those big audacious goals? You have all kinds of organizations and entities looking at how are we going to get there, how much it's going to cost? What do we need to do to get there? And so, when we started reviewing some of these publications, both in Ontario, Canada, and actually in other jurisdictions, they were very good. They talked about what supply mix that we need the investment in transmission, but almost 100% of the papers, Trevor, if you can believe this, just neglected distribution, no one talked about distribution, they didn't talk about how distribution is going to have to change what the investments would be. And then we'll so we said it's going to be critical for us to identify the electric utility role and the energy transition, and how the sector will need to be grid ready to support electrification, economic development, grid resilience, and customer preferences. So, we view that LDCs are going to be pivotal in enabling Ontario's low carbon economy, navigating the challenges posed by climate policies, electrification trends, and these evolving customer demands. And with Ontario's growing economy and the demands for housing intensify, LDCs must innovate to effectively meet these accelerating electricity needs and changing preferences. And right now, we've seen the ISO is predicting significant consumption growth from 144 terawatt hours in 2023, to 240 terawatt hours and 2050 not quite double, but it's getting close. And so, this rapid growth demands urgent attention to adopt new strategies and to ensure that the local distribution companies can make the necessary investments in grid enhancements to expand the capacity and capability of the distribution system. So, while reliability and affordability remain Paramount customers do expect additional value from their utility service. And, you know, we are seeing all sorts of things that are happening, you know, such as the need for swift electric vehicle charging installation, and other upgrades that will increase the electrical load. We see that LDCs are more frequently interacting with businesses that seek utility partners to achieve their energy management, sustainability and ESG goals. And in parallel, the LDC must prepare to respond to increase climate change induced extreme weather events. So, recognizing the essential role of LDCs in the energy transition, we've worked in collaboration with industry experts to outline a vision of the role of utilities, so they can enable economic development, housing growth and electrification. And the report identifies urgent and practical steps that LDCs in partnership with the government, and its agencies must take in the near term to achieve the benefits of this transition. So, what you'll see in the paper is recommendations related to the need for clear policy direction on regulatory frameworks to support LDCs in becoming grid ready, and with a continued focus on affordability and enabling a customer choice and opportunity. And we also discuss issues like workforce needs. And we also emphasize the role of human capital in enabling technological advancements. So that's very high level what it is, and I will get into it a bit more as we have our discussion further.   Trevor Freeman  18:41  Yeah, I think it's a good way to frame it of the entire sector is changing at all levels. But what you're really doing is laying out that vision that roadmap for the distributors, in particular, and I think that's great. Maybe like, who is the audience for this paper? Who are you kind of directing this at?   Teresa Sarkesian  18:59  Well, we're still putting the crossing the T's and dotting the I's., but I think it's about 80 pages. So, it's not going to be for everyone, obviously, you know, government decision makers, government, policymakers, people that work in their regulatory agencies and our energy board, the Independent Electricity System Operator, we did try to make it accessible. There is an executive summary that's about two or three pages, which I think will be of great interest to a lot of people to read. And I think it gives a very kind of a high-level overview of what's in the document. So that's something that we're trying to do. And, you know, obviously our LTC members are an audience as well. They've been working with us hand in glove the last few months we've had extensive member meetings we had a board committee that helped steer this paper. But you know, ultimately, the paper is really focused on our customers because its customers and businesses that are driving a lot of this change for the future, whether it's businesses that are on their own journey on environmental, social and governance ESG objectives, and they're looking for more low carbon communities to invest in its customers who are very interested in EV charging, and maybe what the opportunity for the batteries can be to sell that storage back to the grid. It's, it's really the customers that are driving this change.   Trevor Freeman  20:31  Right Yeah, and I mean, the nature of this medium is I don't know who's out there listening. But I'd encourage, you know, all of our listeners, when this comes out, take a look at it and get some insight into kind of how the distributors role is laid out there. So, let's dive into some of the details. You know, you outline obviously, some of the traditional roles and functions of the LDCs. So, from maintaining, owning and maintaining the infrastructure, the poles and wires, and doing customer metering and billing, that stuff's not going away, we're going to keep doing those things. But you also highlight some of these emerging roles that have begun to appear, or that we'll see in the next couple of years, you know, a more of a focus on distributed energy resources, like solar on roofs, for example, that LDCs are going to have to work to both enable as well as integrate into our own systems. It's going to include things like more customer programs, and rate design, etc. I'm curious, you know, how are LDCs going to balance that traditional role that we've already been doing, along with this rapidly new expanding set of roles that we need to tackle?   Teresa Sarkesian  21:38  That's a great question, Trevor. So, look, LDCs will continue, as we always have been to be responsible for safe, reliable and affordable delivery of electricity to customers, customers can count on us to do that 24/7. And even with all these anticipated grid expansions, we're not going to be shut down, if the critic dispatches so, you know, we're experts at multitasking in our sector, and we will continue to do so. And with the increases, as you mentioned, in distributed energy resources, and electrification, there are the pressures for us to adapt, modernize and change how we ensure the safety and reliability in the service to customers. And the emerging roles and responsibilities aren't something that's in the distant future. You know, as I mentioned before, changes the constant, we have been engaging in ongoing adaptation. And so, when I think about the future, and I think about what we call grid modernization, it really is part of the ongoing continuous improvement, and the pursuit of the digital utility of the future, that every utility is on that journey. So, you know, utilities have been bringing in new technologies, particularly related to information technology, communications, and digital solutions. And so, while we're in early stages, we are expecting our members to become more digitally based in the future, they're going to be introducing advanced distribution management systems to monitor the grid. And they're also going to have distributed energy resource management systems to monitor all the connections that are behind the meter. So, I think what is different now than in the past, is simply that the pace of change is being dramatically accelerated. So, for example, it took us about 100 years to get the grid to its current size, yet, we need to almost double the current grid in 25 years. So, we have to move four times as fast. And the grid is not going to be built with just simple poles and wires and one way energy flow like it has been for basically the last 100 years, it's going to be a lot more complex, we're going to see two-way energy flows, so it's not just us sending power to the customer one way, they're potentially going to be selling back their energy generation or their energy storage back onto the grid. So, we need to have that temerity, that two-way, power flow. So that's going to be a big change. And we also expect there to be a lot more customer interaction. They want to leverage their own generation and storage behind the meter. And we as utilities, want to be able to leverage that to help us with you know, reliability, Storm outage, other emergency situations. So, we see there's going to be a greater interactive relationship with customer than simply, you know, maybe sending a bill to them or offering them conservation programs, it's going to be much more dynamic than it has been in the past. And so, you know, over the last two decades, and we talked about this a bit already, the utility has been modernizing the system in response to government policy initiatives, regulatory requirements, and customer preferences. One other example, recently, utilities were required to implement something called green button. And we've been also engaging by bringing them more into the system through net metering. And a lot of our members are also involved in various pilot projects with the Independent Electricity System Operator and with Enercan to look at all kinds of new LTC models and functions. So, and you're going to see a lot of this actually, in our vision paper is that to really be effective, cost effective. To make sure this happens at the accelerated pace, we do need for there to be proactive policy and regulatory changes, to remove barriers and empower LDCs to embrace these new evolving roles in shaping the future of the energy sector. And as I mentioned before, customers are demanding it. And I want to point out a research report that came out by the International Energy Agency just late last year. And they made it very clear that in quite a number of countries around the world, the lack of the regulatory permission to provide more investments in the distribution system is now becoming a significant barrier to new renewable energy projects connecting on the system. And while we don't have that situation here in Ontario, if we don't start moving quickly, in terms of reforming the regulatory context, then we might be like some of these other countries, and we don't want to be that a barrier, you want to be able to enable what our customers want on the grid.   Trevor Freeman  26:07  Yeah, so I'm going to ask you a question about that last point in a minute. But I think your framing of the ways that the sector is going to change, and the way our customers are going to interact with us is going to change is really great. And it's something that you know, often comes up in conversation. And I often say, there is no single strategy or tool here, we can't solve the coming challenges with just more poles and wires. We can't solve it with just new innovative solutions, we need all of those things, we need more poles and wires. But we also need more programming, more innovation, more technology, we need to utilize those distributed energy resources out there on the grid. So, I think that's a great way to frame it. Okay, so let's talk about grid planning a little bit. So LDCs play a really key role in helping forecast the needs of the future, both for our own distribution systems, but also feeding up into those broader provincial needs. So, the insight that we gain from our customers, we pass up to the IESO, for example, so that they can do planning at the provincial level. Traditionally, this is a pretty consistent process. You know, in the past, we get a sense from municipalities and developers, how cities are going to expand and grow. And we've generally been able to count on the typical home using roughly the same amount of electricity as homes that are out there today. So, we account for a certain expansion of commercial customers based on the Intel that we get from those customers. And we know roughly what they're going to use. The problem is that model's kind of being turned on its head a little bit. So, we now need to account for even our existing customers increasing their load because they are electrifying or they want to add EV chargers. And new developments today are likely going to have increased demand compared to some of the historical developments, because we're going to see all electric communities or at the very least more electrified and uses. So I know you don't have a crystal ball yet that tells us exactly how this change is going to happen. But what are LDCs doing to adapt their long-term grid planning to account for this uncertainty?   Teresa Sarkesian  28:22  Yeah, you're so right, Trevor forecasting is getting more challenging. And I just want to start with a little story before I get into my answer about that. So, you know, electric vehicles are kind of the hot thing right now. And you know, although people I think are still on a waiting list for certain cars, there's lots of others that are available. And so, one of the concerns that our sector had was we didn't know where these electric vehicles were going to pop up. And we weren't getting any kind of pre advanced warning when people started making orders or, you know, advanced purchases for electric vehicles. So, we actually did a great advocacy campaign, with the province with both the Ministry of Energy of the Ministry of Transportation, to secure postal code data for utility, so they could see where people were going to be purchasing electric vehicles to help them with their own planning, in terms of, you know, making sure that their local feeders were upgraded their local transformers, and so that just got announced a year ago. But that's obviously not going to be good enough. And that just tells us about electric vehicles, you know, in the near term, but this is I think, you know, having sightlines into our customer behavior, whether we do that proactively with you know, consultations and communications with customers, or we can do it by you know, pinging the meter, or getting data such as postal codes. We are going to have to, you know, adapt and have greater visibility and sightlines into the customer. And so this is that some of that technology that I was talking about earlier, the sophisticated future grid is going to need lots of visibility and transparency, for usage and investment to be able to, you know, look at these two way power flows, look at how customers are behaving, in order to better plan the system, we also need to maximize and optimize the data that we have, you know, from our planners, it's going to be vital to protecting the grid reliability and resilience, we're going to have to have more partnerships with municipalities, in terms of their energy planning for the future and things that they want for their community. And, you know, one of the things that we're asking for on our paper is actually to, you know, rethink the distribution system plan, that the utilities have to file with the OMB every five years, and start building in a, you know, Grid Modernization plan within that broader plan. So, we can get the regulator to start looking ahead and seeing what these requests are, it'll be important to also have various performance metrics and filing guidelines for grid modification from the energy board. So, you know, these are some of the things I think that the membership is going to have to look at but it is going to be a very iterative experience, because it's just it's the pace of change is the big unknown. And so, everyone talks about these things. But you know, I saw something today, I think it was from Ford Motor Company, and they're kind of slowing down, it's taken them a while to retool their plants. So that could take an extra two years now for them to be up and running and producing electric vehicles. So, there's going to be all these other pieces of the puzzle that are constantly going to be changing a moving and evolving. It is I think, planning for the future is going to be very challenging. And I do expect the province to start talking about this higher level, maybe starting at the end of this year, they just came off a massive exercise related to the energy transition electrification panel. And I do expect to see more guidance from the province as well, in terms of how they're going to manage this planet, because it's not just planning for us. It's planning for everybody else in the system, too.   Trevor Freeman  32:02  Yeah. And for listeners out there, if you haven't had a look at that energy transition electrification panel reports, a really fascinating read. So, I'd encourage you to take a look at it. You mentioned a lot of interesting things there. So, for our listeners, and I'll probably do a future episode on this so I won't get into detail, but LDCs typically have to file five-year rate applications once every five years that really lay out their plans for those five years and how they're going to fund them. So coincidentally, hydro Ottawa was getting ready to do our next one. And like I said, I'll probably talk about that on a future episode. But one thing we did when it comes to forecasting is, we conducted a electrification study that looks at if we electrify by 2050, like our plans, say we will and you know, society wise, what does that mean for the grid? And some of the inputs we took is, you know, what are the federal plans for electrification? What are our own municipal plans for electrification? What are we hearing from our customers, and that really, is helping us modify and change how we do grid forecasting, based on some of the changes that we're seeing from our customers. So I think this is a really important piece that, like you said, we're going to need to iterate on we're not going to get it right the first time. But we're starting to think of how do we need to change the way we do things in order to keep up with what our customers are doing.   Teresa Sarkesian  33:28  I think one thing I've seen more of the last few years, because this is much more complex than it's been in the past that I've seen, like the IESO, for example, they've done more, you know, scenario setting. So, when they've had their, you know, their APO's and AER safe, they sort of had other two or three scenarios, and they're constantly updating their numbers every year. So, these are other changes that we're starting to see. And even myself, I was just looking at the provincial budget detail the other day, they also set out, you know, scenarios as well. They're just not picking Oh, it's going to be, you know, X amount of deficit. And you know in 2028 they're actually forecasting out different scenarios. So, I think that's another piece I see more in play, that people will, you know, showcase what assumptions they have, and will have maybe two or three different scenarios as well.   Trevor Freeman  34:21  Yeah, and I think it's a, it's a great way to tackle that unknown component to where we've never really been through a change like this before. We've never wholesale changed the way we use energy in our society. So, there's a degree of uncertainty, obviously, and I think, targeting out that kind of, let's call it high, medium, low scenario, or whatever the metric might be, is going to be really critical for us to make sure we're staying within the boundaries of what's possible and what's probable and refining that constantly as we move forward. So that's a great point. Something else you mentioned a little bit ago, that's, you know, could be a bit of a nebulous term is grid modernization now I've actually got a future episode, and specifically about grid modernization and what hydro Ottawa is doing, I think it might actually be our next one. So, we don't need to go into all the details on this. But let's just help our listeners understand what do we mean when we're talking about grid modernization? And why is this important? Why is it important to our customers that we do this kind of back-office improvement?   Teresa Sarkesian  35:23  So, I'm going to keep it really simple, because I know you're going to do a deep dive on it and a future episode. But essentially, Grid Modernization are improvements that LDCs will make simply to augment our capabilities, and enable us to offer new or improved services to customers. So back-office improvements might look like things like real time sensing, and monitoring systems to improve efficiency and reliability. Or we may be investing in new digital infrastructure communication systems to improve safety, cybersecurity, it can also include more visible improvements to safeguard our infrastructure against extreme weather, and climate change to reduce outages. And like one, I guess, example that some of your customers might already be recognizing, you know, we made investments in green button, which enables customers to download their data, send it to a third party if they want to save on customer use. So, it really is the whole soup to nuts, it really is not just one type of technology or solution. It is a combination of a whole series of things that the that the utility will need to do. And I think why we want to do it, I think when we look at all of the pressures on the system, from NetZero objectives to housing priorities, you know, to accelerate broadband development, and support electrification, the pressures seem to be never ending. And the only way that we can respond to all those pressures, is to be grid ready. And, you know, like I said, it's it is a form of continuous improvement. It's just that now it's the pace accelerated pace is such so extraordinary, that we need to have a more dedicated plan. But most importantly, we have to make sure we have dedicated attention by policymakers and regulatory decision makers as well. Because right now, there isn't that dedicated attention to this very important task. Yeah,   Trevor Freeman  37:28  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's great that you bring up all these pressures that we're feeling that it's I think it's time we kind of talk about that elephant in the room, our customers often ask us about affordability, or we're hearing from our customers about affordability, I was actually at a customer event not too long ago, and talking about the change that we're going to see here talking about some of this, you know, large scale transition of our energy sector. These are not small investments that we have to make. We're talking about both an increase of our infrastructure, you know, you mentioned almost doubling the capacity of the grid. We're talking about modernizing our grid systems, that's a lot of back-office work with new technology, and bringing on new programs. Like this is a big change. Energy affordability is already a kind of a challenge today for some folks. So, as we get into this new investment that we have to make as we start moving down the path of the energy transition, how do we balance affordability, especially for our vulnerable populations, with the level of investment that we know is necessary to do the things that we have to do? Yes,   Teresa Sarkesian  38:42  Yes, that's the multibillion-dollar question, Trevor. And it's something I'm going to carve out my response, because there's some things that we've put into our vision paper for the future, because affordability is absolutely critical. And as you know, this is basically a massive restructuring of the economy going forward. So, there's may be other participants who might be playing a funding role. So, you know, right now, obviously, you know, customers aren't monolithic, and you know, residential customers who are struggling to pay bills. Do you have some programs that they can, that they can access, they have the low income Energy Assistance Program, they have the Ontario electricity support program. Some of those are funded by the tax base, some are funded by other electricity customers. The province also gives a rebate to customers in Ontario, and that's a pretty big rebate. I don't think a lot of residential customers are aware of it but it is over 7 billion annually to residential small business customers. That's a lot of money. But I don't know if customers really appreciate that. So, I don't know what's going to be available going forward. These are some of the challenges that you know policy makers, you know, have to address as well. So, when we were thinking about this as part of our paper, we sort of looked at it from a number of perspectives. So, the federal government has set up all these Net Zero targets, they've set out, you know, targets for electric vehicle manufacturing, as well. And so, it might be appropriate for them to share part of the burden with this massive energy transformation. And it's interesting, we actually pulled customers about 2000 Customers two years ago, we asked them a whole series of questions about the changes going forward. And customers do have different perspectives about who should be paying for some of this energy transition. So, when we asked them about who should be paying for electric vehicle, charging infrastructure, and they said, Oh, electricity, customers should pay for that, because that's something that everyone's going to benefit from. When we ask them about, you know, who should be paying for the electricity grid, to address climate change and hit Net Zero targets, they actually the majority, 58% said, the taxpayer should be paying for that. So, I think that's just a very interesting data point. But it's something that, you know, we've been active on in terms of having those conversations with the federal government, saying that, you know, you have offered different subsidies to attract different companies to invest in Ontario, based on our clean grid, but we need to have the whole grid support it. So, you know, we're pursuing federal government support, we also are looking at increased maybe private equity engagement in in our sector. So right now, we have a couple of private members, but there's not a lot of private equity money in the sector, most of our members are municipally owned, and municipalities can't invest in their utility, probably even if they wanted to, because they're in short supply of funds as well, they have their own taxpayer that they have to deal with. So, one of the solutions we are putting forward to government is to increase the private equity threshold, so it doesn't trigger additional taxes, right now, it's only 10% ownership. But we're saying that maybe a tool in the toolbox should be up to 49% ownership. So, it would allow private equity to come the patient capital, they're not maybe looking to seek a return right away. So, there's some you know, flexibility there as well. Another thing we're looking at is to revisit the debt equity ratios of utilities to manage the costs over the long term. So, you'd be effectively amortizing on some of those grid investments as well. So, these are some of the ideas that we have around how we can basically fund the energy transition going forward. You know, and some people say, Well, if you could get customers to think about their energy usage holistically, so if they're going to be, you know, moving away from a, you know, a combustion engine car, and they're going to be using heat pumps, instead of, you know, natural gas heating in their home, if you could get people to think holistically what they're saving on the kind of, you know, GHG side of things, versus what they are going to be spending on electricity, they may actually be spending less if they look at it holistically, but I don't really know, to be honest with you, so that I'd rather focus on the things that we could ask government for, as opposed to asking customers to be, you know, thinking more holistically at their entire energy usage, which is just not how they think. And I think, to change that behavior, would be quite a monumental task going forward. But those are some of the things that we think about, because we are very concerned about the affordability going forward, because it is such a massive change that we're all experiencing.   Trevor Freeman  43:50  Yeah, I think this is another example of there is no single solution here. There is no you know, silver bullet that's going to help us pay for all of this, we need all the tools on the table here, we need to look at all different options. And I think you outlined a couple of them, you know, in what you said about our customers impression of some of this change and who should pay for it. Last episode, I talked to David Coletto, from Abacus data, and he was saying on the whole Canadians really believe that an electrified energy system, we know once we make that transition, we will be more secure, it will be more affordable. And I think those customers who have made some transition in their lives can see the benefit of that. But sometimes the initial hurdle is pretty hard to get over that upfront capital cost. And so, looking for ways, both at the customer level as well as at the utility level, the LDC level I think is going to be important to help get over that initial capital outlay that's required, so that we can realize those benefits that we all know where they are that we know we'll see. So. Yeah, great filling some of those out. So, I know I mentioned that I will get back to this. But I do want to talk to you about the advocacy role that the EDA plays. So, you mentioned, you know, talking to governments and Ontario, the provincial governments across Canada, the provincial government has jurisdiction over most energy matters. So, advocacy to the government is a key role that you play. I'm curious, what are you asking the government to do or to provide to help some of these changes that we're talking about happen? What is the advocacy that you're pushing for with the government?   Teresa Sarkesian  45:32   So, I'm going to try to keep it really simple and just sort of, you know, tie it back to our vision paper for now, because at any given time, I'm working on 20 or 30 l policy issues, primarily with the Ontario government. But this past year, we have expanded our work to also include the federal government, because they have investment tax credits that we are interested in for our members to see if they could be eligible for those. We're interested in them changing things to the Canada Infrastructure Bank, also to provide new sources of equity there. And we're also pursuing grants, as well, for grid modernization. So provincially, a whole whack of issues. But I'm going to go back to our paper just to give your audience a little bit of a sneak peek on some of the things that we're going to be asking for. So, one of the first things we're going to be asking for is to get a common understanding and definition of grid modernization, and electrification. And this is not really new of an idea, we kind of have copied it from the US, there's a lot of jurisdictions, there where very clear objectives that have been set out in order to justify grid modernization, investments. So, we think that it'd be beneficial for Ontario to do that, because then once you have those objectives in place, it is going to make it a lot easier to be able to prioritize grid modernization capabilities, functionalities, and investments in line with those objectives. You know, and then from there, you know, we're looking at creating a series of foundational investments. So going forward, some of the things that we think are foundational, are things like the distributed energy resource management systems and the advanced metering infrastructure, which is sort of like smart meters 2.0, for lack of a better term, and also the advanced distribution management systems. So, we see those are going to be foundational pieces that all utilities are going to need to be able to help customers interact with the grid, and they're going to be necessary grid investments. So how what we see for those is we would like it to be similar policy direction, like we had for smart meters and green button, where you have government mandated activities. And then those are given, you know, a kind of lower standard of evidence with the Ontario Energy Board to support that capital infrastructure, they're deemed as priorities and ties back to that initial plan, where you set objectives, as long as those objectives can be that then those should get a pass through.   Trevor Freeman  48:12  If I could jump in right there just for our listeners. So what Teresa is describing here is, at the moment when there are unique things that are not part of government mandate, yet every LDC and Ontario, of which there are many 60, something I don't even have the number in front of me but every LDC when it comes time to enact that project has to go through a whole exercise of justifying it proving why it's necessary, saying this is why we want to do it. If there was some commonality across LDCs in the province, we wouldn't have to put as much effort into, you know, the report writing side of it, we could just get down to business and make these changes that we all know across the province are important. So, I think it's helpful for us to understand how that process works.   Teresa Sarkesian  49:00  Yeah, and thank you for interjecting on that, Trevor, because if government wants us to move fast, we can, but we need that certainty. So, you know, we're no different than any even though we're regulated monopolies. We're really no different than any other business that wants to do business in Ontario, you're always looking for certainty and clarity, from legislation from policy from regulation, because the uncertainty is what slows things down. Another recommendation that I'm moving forward with is that we need to move beyond pilot projects. I had a conversation with a consultant who is working with Enercan on this and they want to move beyond I love their term, death by demonstration. We've got a couple of dozen pilot projects currently in the sector, whether they're funded provincially through the IESO or they're funded federally through Natural Resources Canada, and you know, there's some very exciting results that are coming out of those. But some of those pilot projects have been going on for all almost four years, in one case, almost five. And at some point, you need to pull off the band aid said, yes, this is a success, all LDCs would be eligible for funding in this. So, we need to be able to scale it up. Or we just say no, that's not going to work. But being in this constant state of the pilot projects, while it's informative, at some point, someone has to have the courage to say we're moving forward, this is going to be scalable. Another recommendation we have is to create an action plan to develop a comprehensive human resource strategy to address quantity quality, and partnership aspects of the labor force going forward. There's some great work that electricity, Human Resources Canada has done. And, you know, DC 28,000, replacement and new jobs in our sector, by 2050 and that's, the electricity sector at large across Canada. And I did some, I think back of the envelope calculations to try to figure out, okay, some assumptions about distribution. And we're looking at close to 10,000 new positions in the sector, over the next 25 years. Every sector is having challenges, filling current jobs, never mind jobs, that we're not even sure what they are quite yet. So we don't necessarily have the right programs at the universities and colleges or private training institutions to start getting the right people and talent into our organization. And, you know, so we need help for that. And, you know, I am encouraged, I saw a little announcement out of the province yesterday to have more electricians down on the Chatham Kent area, because that's the whole greenhouse industry. And so, I said, Okay, that's exciting. So, people are starting to pay attention, but we need it more than just in one local community, it needs to be province wide. And, you know, like I mentioned before, we need to have more conversations about what the funding models are going to be to fund the energy transition. So, these are some of the issues and recommendations that we're taking forward from our vision paper. But day to day, I guess that's the other thing, I want to mention in terms, the change I've seen, I've never seen us work on so many issues, prepare so many submissions, invest so many staff at various tables and working groups. And we love doing all that work. We love representing our members at every table of discussion possible, but I've never seen so many. And they're not just oh, you're there for a month, and you're done. Some of these they are multi year. So, they have longer legs, because they are far more complex. But you know, we're working every day, you know, for members that way. Very, very proud to represent our sector think it's a fantastic sector. And the fact that they're going to play such a pivotal role in the future makes us only want to work harder to make sure we get the best of everything for our membership.   Trevor Freeman  52:54  Yeah, I know, we echo that at our level, we can certainly see a lot more stakeholdering and engagement happening with all players in the sector, but especially the government as they figure out this energy transition to right, let's not, you know, let's not forget that the government needs to figure out where policy needs to go to lead it, and it's a great role that you're playing to kind of bring the voice of the distributors to the government. Because again, as we've talked about a couple of times, we're really on the front lines, and we're hearing from our customers, and we're seeing what needs to change right at that customer level, in order to enable some of this stuff that's happening so that that conversation between the LDCs and the government I think is really important. So you know, we don't work in a vacuum, I just mentioned a number of stakeholders in our sector. And I highlighted the interconnected nature of our grid at the beginning of our conversation. There are a lot of different players working together to really, at the end goal is bring power to the customer. How do you see the existing model changing or expanding in terms of, you know, the kinds of partnerships that LDCs have moving forward? So you know, you mentioned private equity is being a potential upcoming role. There are things like technology companies that are developing innovative solutions, who, you know, we maybe were a bit more arm's length with in the past. There's a changing nature of our relationship with the customers, you brought up the idea of going from one way power flow to kind of two way back and forth. arrangement. How do you see that partnership evolving in the future?   Teresa Sarkesian  54:30  Well, I think the good news is, there's a very strong foundation knowledge to build on. So, I'm going to talk about three different areas. I'm going to talk about sort of shared services across utilities, and I'll talk about a partnership with the private industry. And I'd like to talk about the engagement with customers as well. So firstly, there's lots of shared services going around in the industry already. There are all kinds of partnerships that members are trying to reduce costs for customers and find the best solution. So instead of saying, having 60 utilities run, seek out the best solution, you know, you get everyone working collaboratively to find a solution at the best price for customers. So, we've seen a lot, just in my 15 years I've been there you've got in the past, there was, you know, common delivery of conservation programs, members work together on common engineering standards, lots of mutual aid assistance agreements across among utilities, for Storm Recovery. I've seen shared billing services, bulk purchasing products, and shared control room practices and services. And I've seen private sector play a much bigger role in utilities, as well. I've had the privilege to attend some openings, and launches of micro grids, where you have maybe a solar company and an energy storage, battery company, that are part of that group with utility, creating a micro grid for their community to provide maybe warming and cooling charging services when there's a major outage, for example. And I've seen now, some smart grids, you know, one that's already been implemented up in the north that has a significant private sector partner. And I've seen it also there's a new one, that's another one in the north, that's going to be developed with a private sector partner. And I've seen, not just Ontario businesses, I've seen what businesses come in one of our members is doing a distribution system operator pilot model with a partner in from Norway. So, I'm really encouraged, I think the foundation is already there to kind of build on all those successes we already have, and do more, you know, and we talked about the customers going forward as well, that they're going to be to help playing a role, or we hope they're going to be playing a role. Because there's a lot of energy, battery storage and solar generation, sort of behind the meter, whether it's a farm, or it's a residential customer, or it's a big industrial customer. And so, we want to be able to optimize all of those resources into the system to be of benefit to all customers to reduce costs. But we'd have to give an incentive to those customers to participate, no one is going to let you know a utility access their, you know, solar panel generation or their battery storage, unless they're going to be getting paid to do so. And I think that's going to be really important going forward, because we don't want to over build the grid, I mean, the grid is going to be so big, going forward. And we have to find ways to avoid over building it. Because we don't want to be in a situation where you know, customers are having to pay too much for a grid that's not properly optimized. So trying to find solutions behind the meter, that will maybe either avoid or delay bigger generation investments or transmission investments, or even actually distribution investments, we want to optimize that. But right now, there's not really a lot of permission to do that. So we need to get that legislative and regulatory permission to do that, to turn those, you know, more passive customers into prosumers, that they're basically your their proactive customers by selling their energy storage back to the grid. So I'm really optimistic. I think we've got a great foundation work to do on the customer peace, letting them participate as prosumers and the system, but I'm pretty optimistic that that we can get that job done.   Trevor Freeman  58:27  Yeah, I think it really highlights, there's a lot to be excited about when it comes to the change, that's going to happen. There's a lot of opportunity out there both for the LDCs, for the other stakeholders for our customers, that this energy transition, this change is going to bring about, you know, there's some challenges to I know, he talked about the challenges. I wonder, though, what do you see, as you know, one of the single biggest are a series of risks to achieving the vision that you've outlined in the paper, how could this go off the rails and not happen the way we need it to happen?   Teresa Sarkesian  59:03  Well, I always like to be glass half full as opposed to half empty, but you're taking me down that road? Trevor? So I'm going to answer that question.   Trevor Freeman  59:11  It's my job.   Teresa Sarkesian  59:11  So you know, obviously, our vision for the future role is big, but it's practical. The energy transition is upon us now. It's not something to contemplate for the future. So we think that the biggest risk is effectively inaction or kind of, you know, kicking the issue down the road, 510 years. We're seeing this right, nearby jurisdictions in the US are taking action. There's been significant funding out of the Biden administration, for all kinds of initiatives from you know, cybersecurity, to grid modernization down there. They're doing they're very competitive. They want to attract businesses, to the US. And so, you know, that's a major competition for Ontario. So if we don't seize the opportunities to kind of start working on these important issues now, we could lose economic development opportunities, we could lose jobs, we could lose investment, we could lose our talent as well, that may want to move to another jurisdiction. So to mitigate that risk, the LDCs, and policymakers have to work together on developing a shared vision around electrification and grid modernization, develop a plan of action and create a realistic timeline to turn that vision into reality.   Trevor Freeman  1:00:26  Yeah, it's a it's a great point. And I think it's important for people to understand that change is happening, the change is going to happen, whether we want it to or not. And, you know, often sometimes people say, Are we are we really going to see this change? I think we're already seeing it, we're already seeing customers want to change the way they interact with energy. The risk here is if we don't react quick enough or properly enough, the costs of that change becomes higher the reliability of the grid that we're working with, goes down, that general customer experience is not where it needs to be. And then you've highlighted some other ones, you know, we can really struggle with talent if we're not offering them the kind of cool innovative roles that they're looking for. But the neighboring jurisdiction is, so it's not so much that the change may or may not happen, it's how do we react to it in a way that really serves all of our stakeholder the best. So, Teresa, this has been a really great conversation. And I really appreciate you taking the time to join us and chat with us today. I think there's a number of things that we talked about today that really set up future conversations I'm going to have nicely. So thanks for the half for teeing that up. And this is your second time on the show. No doubt, there'll be a third time because I think there's a lot more that down the road, we can we can pick apart. So thanks for that. We typically end our interviews here with some common questions to all our guests. So to start off, what is a book that you've read that you think everybody should read?   Teresa Sarkesian  1:01:56  So one I recently enjoyed it's by a friend too. By Darrell Bricker, he wrote Empty Planet, and that is very, very good talks about actually declining global population. And what that means from everything from, you know, businesses to climate change to pension plans. So it's a fascinating read. People have time for it.   Trevor Freeman  1:02:19  Yeah, very cool. I'll check that out. So kind of the same question. What's a movie or a show that you'd recommend to everybody?   Teresa Sarkesian  1:02:24  I watched one a few months ago was a Netflix series called the Blue Zone. And it was an investigation on people who had made it to 100 I think they called Central Jamarion's I can't remember the name. But basically, they interviewed all these people living around the world about what it takes to get to be 100. So I really enjoyed it. It was just, it was just very beautifully done. And the people they talked to, I found fascinating and so interesting. So I really enjoyed it.   Trevor Freeman  1:02:52  Yeah, I also watched that one that was really great. If somebody offered you a free round trip flight anywhere in the world, where would you go

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TRIGGER WARNING this episode discusses depression and relevant mental health topics. This week it is my pleasure to be speaking with the beautiful, Katie McQuaid, author of “She'll Be Right... Yeah, Nah” a book that is a honest and reflective no-nonsense Kiwi approach to depression; that shines a light on what continues to be a growing concern in Aotearoa New Zealand and how, at the grassroots, we can offer straightforward, meaningful support. The first time I met Kaite, she was the MC at a wedding, little did I know about all the depth she's carried beneath the surface and I'm so grateful for the discussion we got to have this week! A note from Katie: Kia ora e te whānau, my name is Katie and I've recently self published a book detailing my journey with depression, and tangible tips for loved ones to help support their loved one. Buy “She'll Be Right... Yeah, Nah” (NZ) https://www.theundergroundbookstore.nz/Shell-Be-Right-Yeah-Nah-p595221248 (Amazon) https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/0473690152 Connect with Katie on Instagram @katiemcquaidnz Support Gumboot Friday with Katie: https://givealittle.co.nz/org/gumboot-friday

Thanks!  Gratitude!!  Appreciation!!!  Happy New Year!  I wish you peace, love, understanding, strength, and kindness in 2024.  May you find yourself with ALL of what you truly need and SOME of what you want.  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 30, 2023, Saturday, the final fourth…Tipsy in Chelsea - Day After Day [Gaslighter]Kurt Baker - 12 It Was You [Rock N' Roll Club] (Wicked Cool Records)Mustangs Of The West - How Blue@Daisy House - As You Were@Dr. Hook - Sylvia's MotherMichael Carpenter & The Cuban Heels - 06 Photo [Ain't Nothing Left To Say]@Theatre Royal - 03 I'm The One [B-sides and other cuts] (koolkatmusik.com)Pernice Brothers - Discover A Lovelier You [Discover A Lovelier You]@Jigsaw – SkyhighThe Chickenbackers - I'm Gonna Get You Yet [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Death By Unga Bunga - 07 Turn My Brain OffLisa Mychols Music - Go All The Way [Power Pop Unplugged] (Zero Hour Records)The Rubinoos - Hard To Get [The Best Of....]@The Bay City Rollers - Saturday NightJohn Larson and the Silver Fields - 11 Angelica [Glimpses]JV Team - The Great Before [The Great Before]Ryan Allen - 04 Can You Take My Thoughts Away [Digital Hiss]Crocodyle - 03 - Passenger Seat [Sharing a Twin Bed - EP]Brad Marino - To Bleed [Even The Score] (Rum Bar Records)The Dollyrots - Auld Lang Syne (Wicked Cool Records)

Goal reached!  At last peek 41,005 DOWNLOADS!  Humbled, Amazed, THANK YOU!  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 30, 2023, Saturday, three fourths…@Fatal Vision - Heartbreaker@Blotto - Gimme The Girl@Lilou And John - Six Year FarewellPaul Collins Beat - Work A Day WorldNo Museums - 05 February [The Lighter Darker Age]Ian M Bailey - 12 - The Moon Floats On A Cloud [We Live In Strange Times]The Candy Strypers - 23 Malibu (More Than Anyone) [Now and Then] (Subjangle)Ward White - 07 Gail, Where's Your Shoes? [The Tender Age]@The Jeremy Band - Joy Comes In The Morning [Sweet Relief 4] (www.jamrecordings.com)The Chickenbackers - 07_I Can't Make It [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Bittersweet Machines - 07 Lights Are Fading Down [No Bad Horizon]Nick Bertling - 02 Not Very Good [Process and Contact] (Futureman Records)The Flashcubes - Do Anything You Wanna Do [Brilliant]@The Left Banke - Pretty BallerinaJohn Larson and the Silver Fields - 01 Class Actions [Glimpses]@The Bopp - Gemini Way [Power My Pop]The Silencers - Pittsburgh - Illegal [Rock 'N' Roll Enforcers]The Golden Rail - You Keep Me From Blue [Sometimes When] (You Are the Cosmos)Joe Whiting Band & @Evan Knight & @Michael Davis - Auld Land Syne [Christmastime In Syracuse]

Without showing me what I supposedly posted from back in JUNE; my friends at FB told me just moments ago, they took down a post and gave me a warning due to going against community standards…but, again, I can't see what was posted…BUT!  I do know it was something I found… where else… ON FB!  Their idiocy is circular.  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 30, 2023, Saturday, halfway…the Barracudas - I Can`t Sleep@Blue - Red Light Song [Blue]The Petal Falls - A Man in Chains [Workin' All Night Workin' All Day]@XTC - 08 Earn Enough For UsMarco Busato - 01 Sunken Ships [Night Of My Times] (@Bickerton Records)The Armoires - 13 Magenta Moon [Incognito] (Big Stir Records)YANKS - 01 Once For Love (Big Stir Records)No Museums - 05 Advancing The Fleet [Pale Blue Eyes]Matthew Sweet & Susanna Hoffs - Sunday Morning [Under The Covers Volume 1]@The Master Plan - 07 What's Up With That? [Grand Cru] (Rum Bar Records)Dana Countryman - Every Time You Break My Heart Again [Come Into My Studio]Terry Draper - Pied Piper [In My Garden]The Chickenbackers - Can't Get Your Lovin' [Yeh, Right Yeah! (koolkatmusik.com)@The Jam - Happy TogetherFabienne Delsol - Never Learn To Cry [No Time For Sorrows] (Damaged Goods Records)Anastazia Spencer - 03 Bad Boy [Hey Txema... It's OK!!!] (Clifford Records)@addy - need 2 [re call - EP]@James Taylor - Auld Lang Syne

What a day…in a GREAT WAY!  Out for breakfast at Izzy's Diner on Palm Bay Road with Lori.  A little drive around through the Turkey Creek subdivision.  Then home to put together Lori's new Christmas gift work bench.  A 52-inch Husky with two drawers and a height changing tabletop.  Pretty dang easy to build. Done in under an hour.  Now The Year End Show!  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 30, 2023, Saturday, one of four…Orbis 2.0 - TMA SHOW OPEN THEMEBrian Setzer Orchestra - What Are You Doing New Years Eve?Monday's Mona Lisa – Anyway@Mr. Stones Country - Down On You [Anywhere] (John Piazza)@Uni Boys - Up To You [Do It All Next Week] (Curation Records)The Chickenbackers - The Servant [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Star Collector - 01 Feel It Comin' On [Attack, Sustain, Decay... Repeat]RENO BO - Here Right NowSOMERDALE - 04 - Missing You [Let's Get Started] (koolkatmusik.com)The Rallies - It's Okay [Upside Down]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 09 Dusted and Done [Glimpses]The Small Square - Days In [Ours & Others]Steve Stoeckel - 04 Mod Girl [The Power Of And] (Big Stir Records)Jaimie Vernon - 04 Original You [So You Are A Star] (Bullseye Records of Canada, Inc.)SORROWS - Christabelle [Love Too Late...The Real Album] (Big Stir Records)No Museums - 06 This Western Lift [Surfers To The Beach]@Mud Fox Tribe - The PipesThe Rumble Skulls - Who To BeRay Paul - Pretty Flamingo [Whimsicality]

The remainder of today, Saturday, & Sunday, then BOOM!  A New Year!  Wasn't it just Fourth Of July?   Where does the time go?  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 29, 2023, Friday, set one…Orbis 2.0 - TMA SHOW OPEN THEMEDiana Krall - What Are You Doing New Year's Eve?I am Fool – Vanilla [Freak In The Machine]The Maladaptive Solution - 03 Random (My Girl's) [Heal]No Museums - 05 Bungalows [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Jackopierce – Around Me NowBlake Jones & the Trike Shop - The Girl In The Camera Obscura [IPO Vol 17]Warren Zevon - Keep Me In Your HeartThe Chickenbackers - 02_By Your Side [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Jamie Whelligan - 08 Know He's There [Pipes Plus]Stephen Lawrenson - 09 - Once Upon A Time [Chants of a Lifetime] (koolkatmusik.com)The Pozers - 08 - Teenage Storybook [A Sprinkle Of Summer Fun] (Ice Cream Man Power Pop and More)Sons Of Morning - Outta My Head [Sons Of Morning]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 06 Hate To Wait [The Great Pause]Halley O'Malley - 02 Geraldine & John [I'm the Man - The TM Collective]The Why oh why's - Without You I'm NothingGroovy Uncle & Suzi Chunk - Singer - 12 Got My Eyes On The PrizeDan Fogelberg - Same Old Lang Sine

I sometimes get lost in the music as I do the show.  I “accidently” put on both sides of the headphones and watch the hawks and other large birds drift on the wind updrafts…it is magical how effortlessly they glide!  The Music Authority Podcast... listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 29, 2023, Friday, fourth quarter…Mark Johnson - 07 - Love Radiates Around [12 In A Room]@Emperor Penguin - 10 - Extraordinary Years [Sunday Carvery] (@koolkatmusik.com)Joe Normal - 01 Small Town Factory [Public Works] (@New Jersey Phonograph)Coke Belda Music - 03 Run to Me [Coke Belda 3 (Gs) - A Tribute to the Bee Gees] (Futureman Records)No Museums - 06 Perimeter Won't Tighten Anymore [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Nick Eng - B01. Right For You [Longshot] (You Are the Cosmos)Any Trouble - Foolish Pride@Side Project - Sad SongsThe Ramones - Gimmie Gimmie Shock TreatmentThe Chickenbackers- 04_Hipsterboy [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Chris von Sneidern - Love Turned Into LustThe Jellybricks - Still Time [Youngstown Tune Up]@1.4.5. - Mom And Dad [The Pink Invasion] [Three Chords And A Cloud Of Dust] (Jack Mehov, Tom O'Riley, Bob Cat)Dwight Twilley - Perfect World [Between The Cracks Volume 1]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 09 Reversible Heart [The Great Pause]Kirk Adams - 11 Make Believe Love [Undertown]Richard X. Heyman - Crave [67,000 Miles An Album] (@Turn -Up Records)Rich Williams - She Looks Familiar [Ordinary Person]@The Cryers - (It's Gonna Be) A Heartbreaker [The Cryers]@Vaughn Monroe & His Orchestra - Auld Lang Sine

Yesterday, I wrote of a Chopped Italian Salad Sandwich.  For dinner last night we had the “wrap” version.  We were both surprised at just how good it was!  Paired it up with leftover homemade three bean and ham soup.  Tonight, left over pork tenderloin roast with candied sweet potatoes and butter roasted broccoli. The Music Authority Podcast... listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 29, 2023, Friday, paragraph three…The Gold Needles - Do You Want What I Need@Former - LiesCody Melville - 04 He Won't Ever Say He's Alone [Dogs In This Town]Mike Browning - I'll Never Find Another You [Class Act]Nick Batterham - 08 - Who Can Keep Their Word [Up To Our Eyeball In It] (Popboomerang Records)John Larson and the Silver Fields - 07 Told Ya [The Great Pause]@Sunscreen - Tide [Just A Drop EP]Gary Frenay - Nothing Can Take The Place Of Tenderness [Jigsaw People] (@Tangible Music)Binsley Schwarz - Country GirlNo Museums - 04 I'm Full Up On Centuries [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Teenage Fanclub - Is This Music?The Yum Yums - 07 Can I Come Over [For Those About To Pop!] (Rum Bar Records)Sal Baglio - 10 The Train To Liverpool [Sonic Doom- A loFi Home Companion]Elijah Jones and The CCs - Smack Me In The Face [Pity Parade]The Chickenbackers - I Would Be Happy [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)The Cherry Bluestorms - 03 Heel To Toe [Whirligig!]Crowded House - Locked Out [Recurring Dream...The Very Best Of]@The Sneetches - To Make It On Her OwnThe Smithereens - Auld Lang Sine

Still no word back from AAA on my damaged car…but, my thought is with the Holidays, I won't hear until January 2…if I DON'T, they'll be hearing from me on January 3!  I've got video and photos of being towed incorrectly.  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 29, 2023, Friday, aisle two…The Galileo 7 - Mystery Train [Tear Your Minds Wide Open] (Damaged Goods Records)The Brae - How Dare I Cry [Start Right Now]James Booth & The Return - 14 I Will Destroy You In Time [Postcards From The New Frontier]Nils Lofgren - Can't Buy A BreakThe Chickenbackers - 01_Because I Was Blind [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)The Harmony Motel - Faces [Ice Creams & Daydreams] (Ice Cream Man Power Pop and More)@Blue - 10 - I Wanna Go To New York [The L.A. Sessions]Cromm Fallon - Back Seat Cigarettes [Rocktober II] (Rum Bar Records)@Bruce Springsteen - Baby I (The Castiles) [Chapter And Verse]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 04 I Don't Want To Hear Their Names Anymore [The Great Pause]Orbis 2.0 - Make You Mine TonightPezband - It Was Alright@Tom Wardle - Young Lovers Never Die [One Last Kiss - EP]The Foreign Films - Sunset Beyond the Sea [The Record Collector]No Museums - 10 There Is No Harm [There's Always An End (And Always Another)David Woodard - Civil War [Stupid Kid] (koolkatmusik.com)SUPER 8 Music - 10 Smile [Backers & Maracas]The Rubinoos - Leave My Heart Alone@the Catherines - 07 Auld Lang Syne [Teeny•Tiny•Xmas]

Got a quote on rebinding our lifted tiles to the floor!  A great price!  Our floor will be fixed NEXT Thursday!  YEA!  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 28, 2023, Thursday, book two…Popdudes - 2 Daytime Nighttime Suffering [Number Two]Perilous - 04 Always Dreamed Of... [YEAH!!!]Drew Eckmann - 10. Outside [Don't Forget The Roll!]The Happy Somethings - 10 Time Flies [Don't Mention It]Kevin Wayne & The Retrobilleze - Tikki Bar 111 [King Of The Beach]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 05 Painting In The Rain [The Great Pause]The Clockworks - 09 - Advertise Me [Exit Strategy]The Va Va Voodoos - Fun Time [After Dark]@The Zesty Italians - 07 Ain't Her Life More Lively [Mocean of the Otion - EP]No Museums - 02 The Airplanes [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]We Melt Chocolate - 09 Bright Off [Holy Gaze]Ian M Bailey - 04 - The Clock Is Ticking [We Live In Strange Times]Odd Robot- Take A Look at Yourself Sinner [Deathmates]Every Damn Day - 15 You're Not Going To Get To Me [Jettison The Pod Sparky (30th Anniversary Edition)]The Chickenbackers - 12_Dancin' On The Roof [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Bill Lloyd (Musician) - 12 Road Trip Betty [Look Into It]The Brotherhood of Sonic Love - Blue Blister Blue [Golden Spells]

I keep seeing online all these posts about an Italian Salad Sandwich.  Have you had it?  Sliced ham, turkey, salami, pepperoni, lettuce, provolone cheese, dill pickles, tomato, red onions, red wine vinegar, mayo, Italian seasoning, salt & pepper…all chopped up super fine and served on a toasted roll with a drizzle of olive oil on top.  Gonna do this tonight in a wrap instead of a roll.  Serving it with left over home made three bean and ham soup.  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 28, 2023, Thursday, subsection four…The Pozers - 01 And You Love [Something Pop]FreeCloud - 05 Bonn [The Eclectic Eccentric]@Diamond Hands - 03 - Fruit Trees [Cookie] (koolkatmusik.com)@superWAV - The Innocent [aTYPICAL - EP]The Chickenbackers - 10_Why Do You Do It [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)The Wind-Ups - B1 - My Rene [Happy Like This]The Blips - Glass People [Again]Thomas Charlie Pedersen - music - 7. Fiddler & The Travesty [Employees Must Wash Hands]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 10 Progress [The Great Pause]Buzz Zeemer- Different Roads [Lost And Found]Dennis Davison - 02 Patterns [Voice Memorandum]The Young Rochelles - I Just Saw a Little Love in Your Eyes [Kicked To The Curb]No Museums - 07 The Winter Hive [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]The Mop Tops - 07 - Shiny Girl, Shines [Running Out Of Time] (Beluga Records)Datura4 - 02 Walk On The Water [Invisible Hits]Brad Marino - 03 Up And Up [Grin and Bear It] (Rum Bar Records)Shplang - 09 A Son Son [Thank You, Valued Customer] (Big Stir Records)Stephen Lawrenson - Thank You [IPO Vol 13]

Plans for 2024?  Me?  Staying alive, growing more of our own food, getting voice over customers.  It's time!  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 28, 2023, Thursday, page three…John Dunbar - 06 Try Too Hard Or Phone It In [What A Difference Indifference Makes]Reverend Genes - Wanted To Run [Space - EP]Crystal Canyon - 07 Cobra Aurora [Stars and Distant Light] (Lynda Mandolyn)Autogramm - 04 Why Do We Dance [Music That Humans Can Play]No Museums - 09 The Long Effects [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Richard Turgeon - 7 Forgiveness [Life Of The Party]D. D. Danahy - 03 - Winds For Change [Soul Climate]Angelo Celli - We Kinda Tried (Party's Over) [2015-2023]Nick Frater - Don't Get Sentimental [Bivouac] (Think Like A Key Music)The Chickenbackers - 13_The Chicken Pear [Yeh, Right Yeah! (koolkatmusik.com)Jeremy Morris - God's Glue [High Fidelity] (www.jamrecordings.com)J. Leigh Stone - 10 This Is Not Love [In The Before Time]The Dark Fruits - 04 Asymptomatic [Warm Weather Starter Pack]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 03 Blue Mind [The Great Pause]@Prime Minister - 05 - Paloma (The Girl With The Stars In Her Eyes) [Ten]@Benjamin Russell - Ghost Town [Frontier]

I Love You, I'm Sorry, Please Forgive Me, Thank You.  We need MORE of this in this world.  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 28, 2023, Thursday, first verse…Orbis 2.0 - TMA SHOW OPEN THEMEPopdudes - 01 No Words [The Denny Laine EP]Emperor Penguin - 01 - What's the Worst That Could Happen [Gentlemen Thieves] (koolkatmusik.com)Nick Frater - 01 Mother Knows Best [Nick Frater Presents The Rebutles 1967-1970]The Incurables - Soda Pop [Inside Out & Backwards] (Big Stir Records)@Svenssen - 01 Falling Out Of Fashion [Falling Out Of Fashion - EP]The Chickenbackers - C'mon C'mon [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)KEELEY - Never Here Always There [Floating Above Everything Else]Terry Draper - 05 Lost Within You [In The Beginning]Mermaid Avenue - 05 Embers of Fires Gone [Music From The Film 'Hero']John Larson and the Silver Fields - 02 Jericho [The Great Pause]The Smokeboss Militia - 04 I'm Out [Rise Again]The Dahlmanns - C5 Teenage News [All Dahled Up] (Beluga Records)The Seasongs - 01 - En la oscuridad [Doce Lunas]Night Wilds - 02 The Show [All That Should Have Been]@Japanclub - 07  - Speeder [What They Do To Me] (@Winnetka Records)No Museums - 08 Keep The Fire From The Tent [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Girl with a Hawk - 01 The Romantic [Keep 'Er Lit] (Rum Bar Records)@Lions Of The Interstate - 09 - Lost in Spokane [Strange Empires]Tim McCoy Music - 03 Change That Unsettles [Best Of Us, Worst Of Us, All Of Us] (Rum Bar Records)Slinky & P'tit Loup - 08  Danser Le Swing [Slinky & P'tit Loup  LIVE 2023]The Small Square - Found Object [Ours & Others]

All the single releases in these last three hours were all 100% Random Access Play Selection!  I truly believe it was a great overview of all the great art that gets played here.  Four hours of “Album Tracks Aplenty!”  is scheduled for tomorrow! The Music Authority Podcast... listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 27, 2023, Wednesday, the fourth…Every Damn Day - Spit It Out [Jettison The Pod Sparky 30th Anniversary Edition]Wolfcandy - Being With You Feels Like ChristmasThe Get Arounds - I Want Something MoreThree Hour Tour - A Girl That I Once Knew [B-Side Oblivion]No Museums - The Sinking Ships [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]The Va Va Voodoos - Head On FireThe Cynz - Tell That Girl To Shut Up (Jem Records)The Amplifier Heads - Underground [Rectifier] (Rum Bar Records)The Midnight Callers - Come Dancing [Jem Records Celebrates Ray Davies] (Jem Records)Lannie Flowers - 01 Running (Big Stir Records)The Chickenbackers - 11_Zoot Suit [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Ian M Bailey - Chime Kid Gulliver - Kiss and TellMeyerMen - Handclaps And TambourinesThe Pozers - The Time and PlaceJohn Larson and the Silver Fields - 01 Perfect Crime [The Great Pause]Damien Binder - Bright SideKey of Caustic - Where Did It Go? Randy Klawon, @Jennifer Lee and Jim Bonfanti - It's Been Too LongWilliam Duke - Thank You [Quatro]

The roadways were so QUIET this morning as I did my Honey-Do list…I was thinking that something bad had happened and I was left out of the news cycle.  Glad it is just that people are recovering from Christmas and the day after!  The Music Authority Podcast... listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 27, 2023, Wednesday, three quarters…The Penetrators - Treat You Right (Code 213 Records)The Vinylos - But I Can Love You (Clifford Records)28IF The Band - Hold Tight (Ray Paul)@Side Project - Faith And Kindness (Joe DelVecchio)The Dollyrots - Hey Girl (Wicked Cool Records)John Larson and the Silver Fields - 08 Are You Willing To Move [The Great Pause]The Flashcubes - 01 Forget About You [Pop Masters] (Big Stir Records)Perilous - Name In The PaperOrbis 2.0 with Dw Dunphy, Ed Ryan, & Lisa Mychols Music - R U OK?Jittery Jack with Amy Griffin on Guitar - Tonight's the Night (Rum Bar Records)No Museums - 01 Does It Still Attack [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]The Rumble Skulls - Children Of FreedomThe Bayonets - 01 Argentina (Wicked Cool Records)The Poppermost - I Know You Know I Know (Rogue Records)The Weeklings - I've Just Seen A Face (Jem Records)The Crushing Violets – HollywoodThe Chickenbackers - The Surfer Chicken [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Lolas – JacquiLittle Billy Lost - SHOUT! (Rock Garden Records)SUPER 8 Music - Every Word Is True [The Plus 4 - EP]@Stupidity - Fortune Teller (Tommy Sjöström)

I know yesterday was Boxing Day…but I'm more careful than to go out in those crazed crowds.  I got Lori's gift exchanged this morning and it is being delivered Friday, hopefully this time with NO DAMAGE!  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 27, 2023, Wednesday, half way…The Hollywood Stars - Will the Lights go on AgainThe Reign (Feat. Joe Caravella) - You Just May Be The One [Faithfully Yours]wht.rbbt.obj - Give It To Me [Whiskey Hotel Tango]@Willie Campbell - Treasure the RainCrystal Canyon – Catatonia (Lynda Mandolyn)The Chickenbackers - I'm Gonna Get You Yet [Yeh, Right Yeah! (koolkatmusik.com)]The Reverberations - 01 - Wishing I Knew [Half Remembered Dreams] (Beluga Records)Papa Schmapa – You (Joe DelVecchio)Hayley and the Crushers - Lust For Life (Kitten Robot Records)John Larson and the Silver Fields - Reversible Heart [The Great Pause]Brad Marino - Ramones & Stones (Rum Bar Records)Smitt E. Smitty & The Fezztones - Rebel Rebel (Code 213 Records)The Villaintinos - Hands Tied@The Jacks – I'll Always Love You (David A Burdick)@The Goods - Hear MeNo Museums - 06 Perimeter Won't Tighten Anymore [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Jim Trainor - You Say You (koolkatmusik.com)Mozzy Dee - Sweetie Boo [Orale] (Rum Bar Records)@Cmon Cmon - Waiting [The Crack And The Light]Bryan Howell - Still Hungry

Happy New Year!  Let us give this another try!  Downhearted from yesterday's mess of a day…BUT NOT DEFEATED!  My PC couldn't find the drive with the music.  I unplugged it and plugged it back in about 40 times; and it was found!  Hence today's FOUR-HOUR Show!  The Music Authority Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 27, 2023, Wednesday, one of four…Orbis 2.0 - TMA SHOW OPEN THEME65MPH - SymmetryBrandi Ediss - Lost Year (demo)Chandrika Tandon - Que Sera SeraChristopher Thomas - Wear Your Love Like HeavenNo Museums - 04 I'm Full Up On Centuries [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Eddy Chapman - 02 - Flesh & Bones [Riot in a Whisper – Part 3]Frank Joshua - VictimGrant Lindberg - Too Fast@Henshaw – HolyThe Chickenbackers - I Can't Make It [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)@Janine John - You Guide MeJim Basnight - Stay to the End [Summertime Peculiar]Jim Basnight - Summertime Again [Summertime Peculiar]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 07 Told Ya [The Great Pause]@PERDYS - Imaginary Me@Second Language - Youth Is Not for PleasureThe Armoires - Music & Animals (Big Stir Records)The Glimmer Stars - Pictures Of You

The show returns Tuesday.  I wish you peace, love, understanding, and kindness!  Take time with family, friends and be good to you, too…you deserve it!  The Music Authority Podcast... listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Mixcloud, Player FM, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!December 23, 2023, Saturday…Merry Christmas…Dean Martin - Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!@RAViE - Wrapped Up In You@Twistin Kings - Christmas TwistThe Spring Collection - Christmas With You [Power Chords, Harmonies And Mistletoe]Savage Garden - Last ChristmasTommy Ray - Voices [The First Hits Free] (koolkatmusik.com)Alison Moyet- The Coventry CarolThe Weeklings - Christmas Day (Jem Records)Los Straightjackets - Hark the Herald Angels Sing [The Complete Christmas Songbook]Mark Doyle - Carol Of The BellsBlueanimal- Searching [On My Mind]Greg Lake - I Believe In Father ChristmasTerry Draper - A Song For ChristmasButch Young - Heartbreak ChristmasDuncan Reid & the Big Heads - Tea & Sympathy [Don't Blame Yourself]Dana Countryman - That's What Christmas Means To Me [Pop Scrapbook]No Museums - 10 There Is No Harm [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]The Chickenbackers - 05_Can't Get Your Lovin' [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)John Larson and the Silver Fields - 04 I Don't Want To Hear Their Names Anymore [The Great Pause]The Decibelss - 17  Angels We Have Heard On High [Big Stir Singles The Yuletide Wave] (Big Stir Records)

Dr. Deming was a professor for nearly 5 decades, and while most of his examples and writing discussed manufacturing, he applied all the same ideas to teaching. In this episode, John Dues and host Andrew Stotz discuss points 2 and 3 of Dr. Deming's 14 Points for Management - translated for people in education: adopt the new philosophy and cease dependence on inspection to achieve quality.  TRANSCRIPT 0:00:00.0 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz and I'll be your host as we continue our journey into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today I'm continuing my discussion with John Dues who is part of the new generation of educators striving to apply Dr. Deming's principles to unleash student joy in learning. Today we're continuing our discussion about the shift from management myths to principles for the transformation of school systems. John take it away.   0:00:29.4 John Dues: Andrew. It's good to be back. I thought since we've done a number of episodes now just to do a quick recap of where we're at folks that are following along on the Deming Institute website. We're on episode 11. In episodes seven through nine I outlined those six common management myths and you just talked about the point of those three episodes was to help the education systems leaders see what not to do. We've now turned to a set of principles that can be used by these same leaders to guide their transformation work. And in the last episode, episode 10, I introduced the 14 Principles for educational systems transformation. We talked about Principle 1 which was called Create Constancy of Purpose. In this episode I'll describe the second principle which I call Adopt The New Philosophy and the third principle which I call Cease Dependence on Inspection to Achieve Quality. And I mean I think a really important point to make that I got from Dr. Deming when I think about these 14 principles is a preemptive strike. Over the course of 60 years or so of continual improvement work Dr. Deming worked with Japanese industrial leaders, governments, top companies in the United States. Maybe a little bit lesser known was that he was a professor of statistics at New York University for nearly 50 years.   0:02:06.1 JD: And in his books he not only taught the 14 Points to the leaders with which he worked but they also guided his own teaching practices as a professor. And so there was a, sort of, a short Deming quote that stuck out in regards to the 14 Points and who they apply to. He said the 14 Points apply anywhere to small organizations as to large ones to the service industry as well to manufacturing. So I think it's sort of a preemptive strike of sorts, in case people in schools would think that maybe these 14 principles only apply to industry or only apply to healthcare and other sector but they really do apply to the education sector and in fact that was, sort of, a sector close to Deming's heart since he spent like I said five decades or so in academia.   0:03:00.3 AS: Yeah I mean so it's a good point that I think when you read Deming's material or if you watch his videos there's an overwhelming amount of information about factories and businesses and all that. And there's less about service sector. There is talk in there about service sector. But so I think a lot of people that first stumble upon it start to think, "Oh, this is just for factory quality control", or something like that. And that's been proven wrong particularly the LEAN startup in the world of startups really applied Deming's PDSA cycle as an example in very much service industries so it's a good point that this applies everywhere.   0:03:42.3 JD: Yeah. And basically what I tried to do with the 14 Principles in my 'Win-Win' book was just basically just translate the language from, sort of, manufacturing or sort of, industrial language to education sector language. So I actually literally created a crosswalk where I said here's Demings Point 1 and here's how I'd frame that for school people. And so that's, sort of, what I'm taking folks through in this most recent set of episodes. So thinking about diving in here. Principle 2, sort of, the short name is Adopt the New Philosophy. The descriptor, sort of, is Adopt the New Philosophy: Systems leaders must awaken to the fact that education reform movements often lack a sound philosophical foundation, must learn their new responsibilities and take on leadership for improvement. So this, sort of, goes back to this idea of what came out of A Nation At Risk. What was the next steps? What was, sort of, the response? And what I'm saying is that was probably the wrong response and instead we need to Adopt This New Philosophy. That's what Dr. Deming is calling us to do. And that's his point too and I've translated that for education folks.   0:05:01.8 AS: And just for clarity purposes. This principle number two and, you know, what Deming's talking about Adopt the New Philosophy is a very kind of a general statement yet it's maybe a specific statement. Is he telling us to adopt this new philosophy, like generally or is he saying the philosophy of such and such, the philosophy of quality, the philosophy of constancy and purpose, the philosophy of being a learning organization? I'm just curious how you're interpreting that.   0:05:38.7 JD: Yeah I think the 14 Principles are a part of the philosophy. Really, the philosophy is the System of Profound Knowledge though. And if I could, sort of, frame the Deming Philosophy for education what I would, how I would put that is that it's really about studying and applying the System of Profound Knowledge to do two things basically. The first thing is we wanna view teaching and learning as dynamic processes that occur within a system. That's, sort of, the first frame. The second frame is understand the nature of variation of those teaching and learning processes so that we can take the appropriate action within our systems and then we're doing that so we can accomplish improvement on this continual basis. So that's the, sort of, frame I would give the application of Deming's Philosophy to the education system.   0:06:40.9 AS: So is the goal improvement, and understanding the process and understanding variation are steps we get to, of how we improve better, faster, more sustainably or how do you see that?   0:06:56.4 JD: Yeah I think that's exactly right. I think it's all of those things. It gives us the information that we need the knowledge that we need within our systems to make the changes that need to be changed on a, sort of, continual basis. And, you know, it's something that never ends. It's a process that really never ends. It's, you know, not a recipe it's not a program to be implemented but instead it's a method it's a way of thinking that allows to, sort of, continually improve our organization.   0:07:29.1 AS: One other thing I would just mention about this is that if you take away one thing... One thing we could take away is to become a learning organization. I didn't really understand that for many years, but now I really understand that in order to truly learn you have to understand variation in the System of Profound Knowledge and all of the systems stuff in order to truly learn. And then you start to realize that if you're on a mission to truly learn the amount of improvements that you're gonna be able to do is way beyond most other people most other companies competitors most other schools. Because you have... That is part of the Constancy of Purpose is learning and that, I didn't really understand that when I first got into the Deming stuff but now I see just become a learning machine.   0:08:28.3 JD: Yeah. That's what you sort of have to commit to. And I think really what the 14 Principles do is serve as this practical guide by which, you know, systems leaders can lead. It's really that guide. So those management myths avoid those things and then here are these 14 Principles that we can, sort of, follow and some of those principles like Principle 1, Create Constancy of Purpose really tell us what to do and then, sort of, other principles in the list instruct us on how to, sort of, remove barriers in creating this environment the very environment that you were, you know, talking about just now in terms of an environment that's conducive establishing a new philosophy, establishing a learning organization, avoiding barriers to those things like management by objectives. One of the points that we'll get to is "abolish management by objective". That's something we want to get rid of. And really the backbone of the philosophy is transformation from this culture of competition where I win you lose or I lose you win. And really what we want the dominant paradigm in order to, sort of, have the environment that we need to be that learning organization is to create this, sort of, win-win paradigm based on this culture of cooperation.   0:10:00.1 JD: I think, you know, especially when Deming was speaking 45 years ago, 50 years ago when he became really popular in the United States, we had a long way to go. And I think there's still a long way to go but you can almost see, well, you can see a lot of the Deming philosophy in companies today. It is just most companies aren't anywhere close to all the way there, right? And that same thing goes for school systems. I think, sort of, that this idea of win-win philosophy it is a new way of thinking for a lot of leaders. I think one of the, sort of, primary concerns which once you've adopted, sort of, this new approach is that we want to develop joy in work and learning among students, for us as staff as well, as a prerequisite to achieving the core purpose of the organization. Because when people are joyful in their work or joyful in their learning you know you've already created this, sort of, environment that you're referring to where people can learn and improve and people are gonna use data in a way that drives towards that instead of, sort of, guarding their corner of the system like we've talked about before. And I think, you know, I think when you read Deming and I think when you think about transformation of an organization from one philosophy to another philosophy that can certainly be daunting.   0:11:39.0 JD: I think I've said it on this podcast episode, one of these episodes before but this transition is not gonna happen overnight. And I think Deming said something to the effect of when it comes to transformation there's no instant pudding. This doesn't just happen instantly. I think a more realistic goal is this constant consistent movement towards the new philosophy where you're moving towards total involvement of the entire organization everybody from top to bottom and then you're getting everybody working on this continual improvement activity of all systems processes and activities, you know, within the school system. Now it doesn't mean you're necessarily, sort of, attacking every single system or every process at the same time. It just means that you're sort of equipping everybody across the organization with knowledge of the philosophy, knowledge of the methods, and then the tools that go along with those methods like the Plan-Do-Study-Act cycle, like the Process Behavior Chart. And you're getting everybody, sort of, working towards this common aim. And again this is, this is a process and it takes, it takes time for sure.   0:12:51.9 AS: And that's why you need Constancy of Purpose too. Because if you don't have Constancy of Purpose and you have constant change, you know, change in leadership and direction, you know, you're never gonna get there. And I think about the...so many companies that we looked at when I was first studying Deming and listening and learning, many of those companies went through a 5 year phase of implementing the Deming teachings and then they got a new CEO and he says I'm not up for that. I like this. I'm, you know, I'm up for measuring everybody's KPIs and kicking ass and holding people accountable around here. Enough of this cooperation. [laughter]   0:13:36.1 JD: Yeah I think that's a common occurrence and I think, you know, in addition to the 14 Principles there's also the five... I forget what he exactly called them Deadly sins or something like that.   0:13:52.4 AS: Six Deadly Diseases I think it was.   0:13:55.0 JD: I think it was started as five and maybe it grew to six or seven but definitely one of them was the transition of senior leaders on a frequent basis because that makes this virtually impossible to, you know, to change to a New Philosophy.   0:14:08.5 AS: So that really ties together the Constancy of Purpose and Adopting the New Philosophy because then you really see that this is a real commitment. This isn't a fad, this isn't some new tool or something like that. It's a new way of thinking that's gonna require work to get there.   0:14:28.3 JD: Yeah that's exactly right and a lot of people, sort of, associate Deming with Control Charts or something like that, which obviously again he was a statistician. He used Control Charts frequently. I think the Control Charts and Process Behavior Charts are an important tool but what's more important is this way of thinking this is really what Deming was focused on more than anything else is this way of thinking that went with understanding your organization through the lens of the System of Profound Knowledge. It's really this philosophical change adopting this new philosophy that's really what he was most focused on when he worked with governments or schools or corporations, organizations. But that was Principle 2. That's Adopt the New Philosophy. It's not easy. Takes commitment, takes Constancy of Purpose. You've got to stick with it.   0:15:21.8 JD: I think Principle 3, sort of, transitioning to that, I talked about ceasing dependence on inspection to achieve quality. And when I'm talking about Principle 3 in education I'm talking about two specific types of inspection. So I'll just, sort of, read the whole principle and then we can, sort of, unpack it a little bit. So Principle 3: "cease dependence on standardized testing to achieve quality and work to abolish grading and the harmful effects of rating people eliminate the need for inspection on a mass basis. For example standardized testing by building quality into the product in the first place. The product in education systems is high quality learning." That's, sort of, Principle 3 in a nutshell. There are two, sort of, different concepts to deal with in Principle 3 and this will be probably fairly controversial for a lot of, sort of, educators but those two concepts are...   0:16:28.9 AS: Bring it on John.   0:16:30.4 JD: Standardized testing and grading. And the prescription is actually different for each of those things if you're following W. Edwards Deming's teachings. And I think that calls to attention an important point with all of this stuff this principle for sure. But all the principles. You really have to do close reading of the 14 Principles because Dr. Deming chose his words very carefully. And I think, you know, when you say, you know, stop over-reliance on standardized testing or abolish grading. A lot of people's initial reactions is probably going to be to scoff or laugh. And I think, you know, I think that's really just a demonstration of how far away they are from the standards that he demanded.   0:17:22.3 JD: So a lot of people might hear this and say oh this is fluffy stuff or something like that. He must not want real quality to exist and he was actually saying the exact opposite. So if we start with the standardized testing part, you know, when I think of... Is Deming saying that we should abolish inspection in the form of standardized tests or assessments in general? And I would say no. Of course not. And I think without assessment we are not able to answer the critical question, how are we doing? So assessments in and of themselves are useful I think. But I think we're overly reliant specifically on, sort of, mass inspection style standardized testing like in the form of state testing as the, sort of, key way that we're trying to ensure that there's quality throughout the education system.   0:18:26.0 AS: It's interesting because I'm thinking about in the case of a business, inspection is an internal activity that has happened in the past, and our objective is to get rid of that and build quality into the process and the system. But as a business, you're ultimately judged by the quality and you know, value that your product provides. And you'll instantly get the customer feedback by looking at the revenue that you're getting or not getting when you bring that product to market. Whereas in the case of education, what my question to you is, is the signal that we get from business, from the customer. Like, it's just so in your face you go start up a company, you put a million dollars in it, and you don't get any revenue. You think, oh my God, I really messed up. Or you've got a defect in something and it causes a recall and a big cost and, you know, a lot of damage to your reputation. It's just right there in the revenue numbers. But is there a disconnect in that for education? Or is there something that I'm missing in education?   0:19:42.8 JD: I don't, I don't think there's a disconnect there. One, every day a student, let's say a 10 year old student goes home and their parent says, how was school today? Do you like your teacher? Those may be a little more qualitative but they're pretty powerful, you know, 'cause you're getting this report back, every single day. In our case in our specific case where I work at United Schools Network in Columbus, we're a public charter network, and so there are no kids that are assigned to us by geographic boundaries. So we have to go out and recruit every student, sort of, in a grassroots way, knock on doors, make calls, send mail, do tours and open houses, those types of things. And so if people aren't satisfied with our school program, they literally walk out the door to another school. They have other schools they can go to. That's pretty powerful as well, that enrollment factor, that would be a little bit different in a traditional public school. But they... People do... When you think about going and buying a house, for example, one of the first things most people do is check out the school system. Or...   0:20:54.4 AS: My parents specifically, you know, looked at that when we moved to the town that we moved to in Ohio. And my dad's work was not in Ohio, it was in Detroit and other areas, but he ended up, you know, he was traveling as a salesman, but he ended up choosing, my mom and dad chose that town because of the reputation of that school. And so, yeah.   0:21:15.4 JD: Yeah, yeah. And really when you think about Principle 3 too, and specific to standardized testing, it, you know, the way I'm interpreting Deming's Principle 3 and then applying for education - it's not, it's calling for the elimination of the dependence on standardized and other types of tests as the sole measure of quality, not necessarily for their elimination altogether.   0:21:42.4 AS: What damage does...I mean, for those, there's a lot of people that may be listening or viewing that think, wait a minute, I mean, standardized testing is what it's all about. I mean, I want everybody in the school system to be tested on the same thing so I can figure out, you know, which one's doing a good job, which one's not, which students, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So just for a moment, if you could just explain why standardized testing, what are the flaws with standardized testing?   0:22:07.0 JD: Well... Well a big thing is I think there's a big difference between mass testing as an attempt to provide, you know, sort of the customer or the student or the family with something they won't complain about, and the use of assessments to provide guidance toward improvement of, you know, a learning process. And I think, you know, too often or not, we're focused on the former and not the latter, right? So I think standardized testing, let's say state testing I think can provide some useful data hypothetically, but what often happens is it gets used in all these other ways.   0:22:53.8 JD: It's sort of this mass inspection through testing, it's costly. A lot of times, you know, it's unproductive. It basically sort of sorts out sort of good from bad, but doesn't really contribute to progress, right? Just , sort of,year after year low score or the low scoring schools, sort of, score low and the high scoring schools score high, right. I think another thing, another problem with, sort of, mass standardized testing at the population level is that it sort of introduces this idea that there's an acceptable level of defectives, right? Because in most states, there's, sort of,some goal for the percent of students that are gonna be proficient on state tests. In Ohio for grades three through eight, that goal is 80% of the kids will be proficient, and that's acceptable. But then that also means that one in five students, 20% aren't meeting that standard. And that sort of, you sort of lose sight that there's [laughter] this whole bucket of kids over here that you know, you can meet the goal, but you're really leaving behind a whole sort of a significant minority of the students taking the test.   0:24:21.9 JD: I think there's also this, sort of,direct contradiction to the philosophy of continual improvement. You know, the Deming philosophy is to build quality into the process in the first place. And that quality doesn't come from this inspection mechanism. You have to go upstream to improve the teaching and learning processes. And I think something like classroom assessments are a much better tool for identifying these upstream processes. And that's kind of a cool analogous to what you were talking about. You know, in businesses where there is inspection that is happening sort of at the local level, and there's not, sort of,like a regulatory or government agency doing that work for a private business.   0:25:07.4 AS: It's interesting that you highlight the word dependence and when you talked about it earlier, and if you think about what we're being told by Dr. Deming is to focus, shift our focus from the end of the, or the output of the system to the input and the processes of the system. And I think that that, you know, helps us to frame, it doesn't necessarily mean that we absolutely no longer do any inspection and there's no more testing. But what the important thing is, is we've got to shift our focus to the beginning of the process rather than the end. And I suspect most, you know, senior politicians and government officials are just focused on the end, just get the result. Come on.   0:25:52.7 JD: Right. Right Yeah. I think, sort of, to capture this, you know, Deming said, this system of sort of make and inspect, if it's sort of applied to toast, it would be expressed sort of, you burn I'll scrape, right? So that's, we've sort of already burnt the toast, so to say, and we're scraping it by sort of saying, "Oh, well we have the state testing system, that's got how we're gonna improve things." And really alls we're doing is scraping the toast.   0:26:21.2 AS: So let's talk...   0:26:23.1 JD: Oh, sorry, go ahead.   0:26:23.5 AS: I was gonna say, I wanna hear your thoughts on grading next, but good.   0:26:28.2 JD: Yeah this is where things...   0:26:29.4 AS: You got more on standardized testing, feel free.   0:26:29.8 JD: No, no, No. This is a good segue. You know, I think in that turn to grading, it gets a little even more controversial probably because Deming didn't suggest that we merely cease dependence on grades. He said we should abolish them. And again, this is where in, sort of, credibility as a practitioner, those 50 years as a professor, he did this, he did not, he did not issue grades to his students.   0:27:00.7 JD: I think it's really worth noting here, this has nothing to do with making things easier for students. It doesn't have anything to do with low-scoring students' self-esteem. Has nothing to do with that. Instead, it's, this idea is based on this more sort of fundamental premise. And this is really key. We want students to experience success and failure on schoolwork as information rather than reward and punishment. And grades themselves are inherently about experience things as reward and punishment. And that really comes... Those ideas come from author and, sort of, social science researcher, Alfie Kohn, who many Deming practitioners and followers would be aware of Alfie's work as it relates to education and parenting and cooperation and competition and those types of things. And I think one of the things that, sort of, pulled me into this way of thinking when... I think it's in this book called Punished by Rewards. He did this... Alfie Kohn did this comprehensive review of the research literature on grades. And it really compared students who got grades to those who didn't. And he found these pretty robust differences. Three of them. So the first one is that kids who are graded tend to become less interested in the topic they're studying. I think that's really important. This includes, actually, the specific topic, as well as the, sort of, subject area more generally, such as math or writing compared you know, to students who got the identical assignment but with no grades involved.   0:29:00.1 JD: Second thing is that kids who are graded, when they have a choice to pick, they pick the easiest possible task. Because if the point is to get a high grade, it's only rational to pick the easiest book to read or the easiest assignment to do. So what that tells us is that grades, sort of, inherently lead to kids avoiding intellectual risk taking. That's problematic. And then the final thing, the third thing is that kids who are graded are more likely to think in a superficial or, sort of, shallow fashion. So they're more likely to ask questions like, "Do we have to know this?" as opposed to more thoughtful questions about the content itself. So...   0:29:41.7 AS: And just to highlight, is that book called Ungrading: Why Rating Students Undermines Learning, and What to Do Instead?   0:29:50.3 JD: No, this is Alfie Kohn's "Punished by Rewards."   0:29:52.9 AS: "Punished by Rewards." Okay, that's another book that he did a forward to. Okay, I see.   0:29:57.7 JD: Yeah.   0:29:57.9 AS: Okay, "Punished by Rewards." I'm looking for it. And I know everybody could search for that too. So, keep going.   0:30:03.5 JD: Yeah. And it's got a longer subtitle about gold stars and things like that. But I think fundamentally, it's this displacement of the, sort of, core priority from learning to the grade that's at a heart, that's at the heart of both Deming and Alfie Kohn's philosophy in this area. I think Deming went as far as to say that the specific losses from grading practices are "unknown and unknowable, but likely catastrophic." [chuckle] So he didn't mince words there. So just sort of recapping that one, it's you know cease dependence on standardized testing to get to quality. And then he is saying abolish grading, because it does so much to put kids on the path to, sort of, gaming the system, shifting the focus from the learning itself to trying to get the reward that comes with a high grade or this thing or that thing that's handed out as a reward for high grades.   0:31:15.0 AS: Got it. "Punished by Rewards."   0:31:16.6 JD: "Punished by Rewards."   0:31:16.7 AS: It's the 25th edition that's come out, "The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A's, Praise, and Other Bribes."   [laughter]   0:31:24.0 JD: Yep, that's the one. That's the one. It's a heavy read. It's worthwhile. It's a good read. It's... Yeah.   0:31:30.2 AS: It comes as an audio book too, so that could be, read by the author. So, interesting one.   0:31:35.3 JD: Absolutely.   0:31:35.8 AS: I'm gonna check that out. All right.   0:31:37.3 JD: That's a good one. It's a commitment.   0:31:40.1 AS: So how do we wrap this up?   0:31:43.2 JD: Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think again, I think a key thing to, sort of, understand is, sort of, we're studying these 14 Principles, one or two at a time. But anybody listening to this, I think it's really important not to lose sight that these things are mutually supportive. It's a System of Principles, and you have to have all 14 connected together in addition to the System of Profound Knowledge. That's why this gets so hard. You have to understand all of this. And you can't just put it together like a recipe or, you know, pick this one. I can get behind ceasing dependence on standardized testing, but I can't get behind abolishing grading, right? You can't do it like that. You can't disconnect these things. They're all sort of tied back to the underlying philosophy.   0:32:38.3 JD: So I think that's a really important thing. And, you know, because it's not a program or, you know, a project to be implemented, it really requires a, sort of, neverending commitment to both learning and quality. But it is discontinuous. You don't have to do everything at once. You can't do everything at once. Instead, what this allows you to do when you start to understand some of the methods is you start to understand, okay, what is our system capable of on any number of fronts? And then we can set more realistic goals together to, sort of, step towards improvement, real quality. So that's, sort of, what I would take from this entire distillation of the 14 Principles.   0:33:27.2 AS: And I would wrap up by saying, you know, there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that most people don't see. [laughter] There's... We see what's in front of us, but the truth is, by starting to adopt the principles, what's happening is you're just trying to make a transformation. And part of that transformation is that you're seeing the opportunities in the world that you didn't see in the past. And conventional thinking, what we've been taught in the past has given us our perspective. But when you start to remove the blinders and say, "what would happen if we remove grading? What would happen if we ceased dependence on standardized tests?" And we said, "We are gonna look at other ways of doing this."   0:34:09.6 AS: What would happen if we really started to adopt this philosophy and the System of Profound Knowledge to really set a long-term direction? What you are gonna find is so much unfolds. And so today's discussion, just to kind of wrap up, adopting, Principle 2, adopting the new philosophy, talking about the teaching process, understanding variation with the ultimate goal of improving, and improving the outcome for students. And ultimately that's a transformation that your organization can go through. The other one is Principle 3, which is ceasing dependence on inspection to achieve quality.   0:34:51.2 AS: And you really focused in on: hey, standardized tests and grading, which I think is a challenge for everybody to think about. If you are saying that so strongly, and Deming was saying that also there's gotta be something there, right? And ultimately, as you said, the product of education is high quality learning and, it doesn't say, completely get rid of any kind of tests or any kind of assessment. But I think that what you are also trying to get us to do is look at the beginning of the process and then use feedback that we are getting through tests and assessments to go back and improve the beginning of the process. And ultimately, I think, I would end my summary of what you said with, of this discussion with what you said about, that you want students to experience success and failure as information, not reward and punishment. Anything you would add to that summary?   0:35:49.0 JD: Yeah, the only thing I would say is, a disclaimer. I certainly have not figured this all out, and I work in a system and we have not abolished grading, for example. Because you, another thing you have to do is you have to design a replacement that has to be a part of the process. So in the book, I suggest some questions. I don't suggest necessarily an alternative system. I haven't got to that point with grading, but I have a series of questions people can ask to start to think about what their grading policy is. So it's a process, I'm not, I definitely don't have it all figured out. I'm still working on it.   0:36:26.4 AS: Yeah. And, I'll just wrap up that last bit right there and say that if you were in your own environment where you weren't under government regulation or you weren't required to do this or that, you don't have to have a replacement. So for instance, in my case, in my coffee business, we just heard so much negative about the performance appraisal system that eventually we just, like, we are gonna stop and people ask, "well, what are we gonna do instead?" And I said, "I don't care what we are gonna do instead." This is, we've already evaluated that this is bad. Everybody's saying it, we know it, we've learned that, we've seen it internally. So our first job is to stop what is not working. Now, it would be a dream if I could replace it with something amazing that is working, but wouldn't we all already have that? So sometimes we are caught into this system that this thinking that we have to have a substitute or new way. And that's not always the case. But when you are under a lot of constraints, then, you are kind of forced to that. So I just wanted to open people's minds to that. And, anything you would add to that before I close?   0:37:38.4 JD: No, that's really interesting. I... I'd love to hear more about how that's gone since you guys did that.   0:37:44.1 AS: Yeah, it's okay. We never really done a replacement. We did it a long time ago and we never really...   [overlapping conversation]   0:37:48.6 JD: That's cool.   0:37:49.5 AS: So our, I mean our replacement is feedback, coaching, sitting down, having meetings and, but we don't, and when it comes to compensation, we came to some, different conclusions that we wouldn't compensate people for their individual performance. The compensation would be related to the performance of the company with a very clear system of how the success of the company comes up in additional profit and how that's allocated to each person based upon, first their salary. So there's a market component, the market rate component, then based upon their years of service, which we want to reward, and then based on a fixed amount so that people who aren't making the biggest salaries in the place still always get something, that's meaningful to them. So there's lots of alternatives and, let's keep thinking about it. And that's, I think what you bring to the whole Deming sphere is to start thinking about that in education.   0:38:48.6 AS: So John, on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute, I want to thank you again for this discussion. For listeners, remember to go to deming.org to continue your journey. Also, you can find John's book Win-Win, Dr. W Edward Deming, the system of Profound Knowledge and the Science of Improving Schools on Amazon. This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming. "People are entitled to joy in work" and that counts in education.

Today's guest is Tom Dunkel.   Having spent his early career as an accomplished corporate finance leader with over $1.2B of middle-market M&A and financing transaction experience, and possessing a proven track record as a trusted decision-making partner to C-level executives, Tom turned his entrepreneurial energy and enthusiasm toward building a self-storage investment business.   Show Summary:    Tom shares his journey from corporate America to entrepreneurship, discussing his experiences in self-storage, short-term rentals, and distressed mortgage debt. He emphasizes the importance of utilizing technology and marketing strategies in the self-storage industry, and shares insights on market dynamics and competition.  -------------------------------------------------------------- Intro [00:00:00] Tom Dunkel's background and journey [00:01:27] Reasons for pivoting businesses [00:04:24] The importance of KPIs for mom and pop operators [00:11:13] The advantages of raising rates in self-storage [00:12:08] Factors influencing being a price leader or follower [00:13:11] Closing [00:22:36] -------------------------------------------------------------- Connect with Tom:  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tom.dunkel.1  https://www.facebook.com/belrosestoragegroup Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomdunkel/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/belrose-storage-group/ Web: https://belrosestoragegroup.com/   Connect with Sam: I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.     Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowtoscaleCRE/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwilsonhowtoscalecre/ Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com   SUBSCRIBE and LEAVE A RATING. Listen to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Investing with Sam Wilson Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-scale-commercial-real-estate/id1539979234 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4m0NWYzSvznEIjRBFtCgEL?si=e10d8e039b99475f -------------------------------------------------------------- Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below: Tom Dunkel (00:00:00) - Over the past 40 years, the US economy has been bouncing around like a really wicked roller coaster. Right? Good times, bad times, everything in between. But storage, it's like. It's like that lazy river. Sam, when you got your little cocktail, you're floating around at your resort on your little inner tube there. I mean, it's just gently meandered between about 80 and 90% for that same time period, 40 years. So we really like that, that steady predictability and the increasing demand, and that's high cash flowing business. So we're really enjoying it. Welcome to the How to scale.   Sam Wilson (00:00:33) - Commercial real estate show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big. Tom Dunkel is a former aerospace M&A guy. He's got 17 years as a full time real estate investor. If you don't know, Tom actually came back on the show September 18th of 2022, which if I'm not mistaken, that was episode number 658. If you want to go back and hear a little bit more of Tom's story, you can go back there again.   Sam Wilson (00:01:04) - Check that eight. Check that out on September 18th of 2022, Episode 658. Otherwise, Tom, welcome to the show. There are three questions that I always ask every guest who comes on. I know you got this question last time, but maybe you'll answer it differently this time. And if our listeners haven't heard that, they want to hear it again anyway. So where did you start? Where are you now and how did you get there? In 90s or less?   Tom Dunkel (00:01:27) - Got it. Thanks, Sam. It's great to be with you and the listeners once again. Great show. Yeah. So as you mentioned, I started out in corporate America after business school was I was kind of the number crunching, you know, Excel spreadsheet nerd. I was putting together the projections and the pro formas for our aerospace acquisitions, doing the valuations, doing the the, the market work to see like, who are the competitors out there, What were they doing, You know, how could we position ourselves and all those kinds of things.   Tom Dunkel (00:01:59) - So I got to work with some amazing people Harvard MBAs, Wharton MBAs, Naval Academy graduates, Chicago MBAs, retired Air Force colonels, and even some astronauts. And if you catch up with me after the show, if you visit with me on my website, I'll be happy to share with you the two astronauts that I've actually had lunch with. But yeah, so from there, Sam went into a couple other jobs corporate wise, and I just knew all along that, you know, scraping and clawing up that corporate ladder just, just just wasn't for me. I knew there would be a better way. So 2006, I got my opportunity when I was fired for my corporate job. Finally gave me the kick in the pants that I needed to go out and do my own thing. So of course, 2006 was a rough time to get started in real estate. But, you know, I went in full bore and got my butt whooped pretty good those next few years. But, you know, learned a lot, got some battle scars and but persisted.   Tom Dunkel (00:03:01) - And now here, 17 years later, I've built multiple seven and one eight figure business and now we're in the self storage space, which is a ton of fun. And I'm sure we'll get more into the details there later. But in the 90s, that's the story.   Sam Wilson (00:03:19) - That's the summary. I love it. I love it. Have you always done just self storage or do you have other real estate holdings as well?   Tom Dunkel (00:03:28) - Yeah. So right now self storage is our primary business, but we do through the years, of course, being entrepreneurs, we try out different things. So we also do have a short term rental portfolio in the there's a, there's a mountain in Lake Region here north of Philadelphia called the Poconos. And so we picked up some Airbnb rentals up there, which were really hot during Covid. And then we also have a distressed mortgage debt business. And that was the business that I started after getting my butt whooped in the residential world in 2009, I started buying notes and then 2010 and etcetera.   Tom Dunkel (00:04:05) - And that business has done real well for us over the years.   Sam Wilson (00:04:08) - Considering the various businesses that you're involved in. What were some of the hallmark or hallmarks, rather, of why you pivoted from one to the next? And was there any expense in not staying with just one?   Tom Dunkel (00:04:24) - Yeah, that's a great question, Sam. So distressed mortgage debt has been great. I mean, we've generated over $53 million of revenue in that business and we're not a big company. So that's that's done real well for us. Problem is, it's extremely unpredictable and it's not like we can go up to Big Bank USA, knock on the door and say, hey, sell us some loans. So we were strictly at their behest, you know, their whim as to what loans they were going to sell, how many and when. And so for like an MBA guy like me, you know, taught how to put business plans together and KPIs and whatnot, I mean, it just became impossible to really predict the future in any way, shape or form for distressed debt.   Tom Dunkel (00:05:04) - So even though that business is still rolling today, it's strictly, you know, when when a deal comes up, we kind of shift and we jump at it. We have a team that's able to do that and then we got to shift back. But so along the way, we had been looking for an asset class where there was some predictability. You know, there was some staleness there was, you know, a way to put a plan together and put a team together and really, you know, build a business. So we actually started out looking at private lending, hard money lending, and we really liked that business. And we still do a little bit of it sort of on the side. But but we were just not able to get the traction to get that business up and running. And one of the big reasons is its super duper competitive. So that's a big takeaway I would give the folks out there is, you know, be careful about what asset class you choose because if it's super competitive, you know, you're going to have a hard time making hay.   Tom Dunkel (00:06:02) - So when that business didn't work out the first time, we thought, Hey, let's try this again. We did this so good the first time. So we failed at that business twice. And we start we got involved with the title company and because again, we thought that was going to be a lot of a lot of small transactions and predictable, but again, couldn't find really the right relationships and team to put to bear there. And then about 2017, 2018, we started hearing more and more about self storage. We were like, Hmm, okay, this is checking a lot of boxes, very fragmented industry. So it's, you know, there's a lot of moms and pops. The big names that you've heard of out there, they only control about 30% of the market, the public storage, extra space, cube, smart, etcetera, those big guys. So the vast majority of the market is just small ones, two mom and pop owners, which was very attractive. The second thing we found super attractive was just the adopt, the adaptability, the market penetration of self storage.   Tom Dunkel (00:07:03) - A few years back, only about 8% of households in the US, we're using storage. Fast forward to today, it's going on 11% and increasing and I know maybe 3% doesn't sound like a lot, Sam, but when you consider there's 120 million households in the country, every 1% move is 1.2 million new self storage customers. And they're just not building them fast enough. So we've got increasing demand, you know, supply increasing not as much, which means there's going to be upward pressure on rates, which is awesome. And then I guess the last thing I would throw out there is just that over over time, over the past 40 years, you know, the US economy has been bouncing around like a really wicked roller coaster, right? Good times, bad times, everything in between. But storage, it's like it's like that lazy river. Sam, when you got your little cocktail, you're floating around at your resort on your little inner tube there. I mean, it's just gently meandered between about 80 and 90% for that same time period, 40 years.   Tom Dunkel (00:08:06) - So we really like that, that steady predictability and the increasing demand, and that's high cash flowing business. So we're really enjoying it.   Sam Wilson (00:08:15) - No, I think that's all of those are excellent, excellent reasons to get involved. I'm I'm shocked that 30% only 30% of the self storage market is controlled by big names. That's a shocking statistic to me. The big one, I would not have guessed that today that that's still. But that's still the case. Which obviously I guess it is. I would think that that though having those big industry names behind it, like those those consolidating entities, is probably a good thing, just in the sense that it brings market awareness. It brings. I mean, it has to improve resale value of your guys facilities if you decide to resell it all, if that's even part of your strategy. Is that not a fair, fair analysis?   Tom Dunkel (00:09:07) - Yeah. So so the rights are it's kind of a double edged sword with them. So if they are in a market where we are, they I mean, they have a lot of sway, right? They've got big marketing budgets.   Tom Dunkel (00:09:19) - You know, it's usually a big shiny building right on the corner in the middle of town, you know, that kind of thing. So when they come into town, especially if they're building a new facility, what they will do is they'll really drive down the rates in the entire market just to get their facility filled up. And then they'll kind of boil the frog slowly and up, up, up the rates. And so, you know, in that situation, we have to follow them, unfortunately. So that's part of our analysis. When we are looking at acquiring a facility, we're looking to see who are the competitors. Is it, you know, is it Joe's self-storage or is it, you know, public storage? And do we So we need to be cognizant of the fact that there are there is a REIT or our REIT's in the market. And so that's just going to just make us think a little bit more about how we're going to address that. But yeah, the the thing though is if they are already established in the market, they're going to be pushing rates.   Tom Dunkel (00:10:16) - So that's the other edge of the sword is, you know, we can then ride that wave as well by. Either, you know, doing maybe a small discount off of what they're doing or if all the facilities in the in the market are full, which does happen, then we know we can really kind of push that demand curve and push those rates and just kind of see where that equilibrium is and and really be more aggressive about bumping up our rates. Yeah.   Sam Wilson (00:10:45) - That's interesting. I would have I mean, it makes sense, obviously what you said, but I would have guessed the other way around would be that your mom and pop owners would be the ones that are keeping prices artificially low because, well, you know, we've all we just had our prices here and we don't want to upset our customers. So we're going to keep it here. It's like.   Tom Dunkel (00:11:05) - No, you're spot on. That's 100% correct. Sorry if I got off on a off the rails there, but no, no, you're 100% correct.   Tom Dunkel (00:11:13) - And that's one of the things we look for when we're acquiring a facility is a mom and pop, you know, their big KPI. And we're talking about KPIs, key performance indicators before we hit record. And that's their like only KPIs seems like is are all my units full, right? That's what the mom and pop operator does. The last thing they want to do is have to have to have a fancy website or implement technology or a marketing program or, you know, God forbid, throw out some Google ads, you know, something like that. It's just not how they run their business. Right. They're just looking for that mailbox money and they know their rates are low. They know that their delinquencies are high, but they just don't want to upset the apple cart because they know they know all their customers a lot of the time. Right.   Sam Wilson (00:12:02) - That makes that makes a lot of sense. But, I mean, that's where the that's where the meat on the bone lies, right? It's like, okay.   Tom Dunkel (00:12:07) - 100%.   Sam Wilson (00:12:08) - 100%. I'm thinking about a which we're we're long in the laundry business. And I was thinking about a store we just bought and we literally raised rates 53%.   Tom Dunkel (00:12:19) - Oh, yeah, right.   Sam Wilson (00:12:21) - Because it's who knows how long it's been since they've raised rates. I mean, of course that's right. It's all the little sophisticated. I'm not going to call it sophisticated little things that you can do that drive a business in a meaningful way that you just mentioned. Like. Yeah. Oh, hello. Google ads. Okay. Pay per click campaigns. Okay, we're marketing. Okay. We have a phone line.   Tom Dunkel (00:12:40) - Right?   Sam Wilson (00:12:42) - I mean, how many of these facilities you're buying where you're like, you guys don't have a site and a phone number that there's a.   Tom Dunkel (00:12:47) - Person and we're actively surveying the market to see like who's charging what and how busy are they, Right?   Sam Wilson (00:12:54) - Yeah. And those are those are where your competitive edges lie. What's your thought? Maybe you answered this, but I'm going to ask it again anyway just to see if there's more more to this than not.   Sam Wilson (00:13:05) - What's your thought on being a price leader or a price follower?   Tom Dunkel (00:13:11) - Yeah, good question. You know, and I hate to I hate to say this, but it's going to depend on the market. So, for example, we acquired a facility in Mount Airy, North Carolina, a couple of years ago. And the entire market in our analysis, we discovered that the entire market was full. And so we knew when we acquired our facility there, Granite City Storage, we knew that if there's a customer in that market that wants a storage unit, they're going to have to pay more because if we bump up the rates even on our existing customers, where are they going to go? So we we were able to successfully play that game in that market and we increased our rates about 21% in the in the first few months. And then we were just able to bump it up kind of incrementally from there. But yeah, I mean, that's that's a big factor is what's going on at the other stores.   Tom Dunkel (00:14:06) - But like we talked about a minute ago, you know, if there's a big new development going in and there's a REIT coming in, you know, we're going to be more of a price follower in that situation. Oh, and what I meant to add on to for my first example in North Carolina, all the other competitors in that market, they followed us after they saw that we were bumping up our rates. They all, you know, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump up their rates. Right. And then, you know, we I don't remember getting like a holiday card or like a commission check that year from those guys, but we should have for sure. But yeah, on the other side with the with the big rates coming in or big developments coming in you know you're going to end up most times being a price follower in that situation.   Sam Wilson (00:14:55) - Right Yeah it's it's a it's a temporary race to the bottom.   Tom Dunkel (00:15:00) - That's right. But but honestly, which is why I'm sorry to interrupt, but which is why like, you know, people look at these really hot markets, you know, like down in Florida and, you know, millions and millions of people moving there, or at least hundreds and hundreds of thousands.   Tom Dunkel (00:15:16) - But we don't like to see that the market being too hot because we know that's going to attract the REIT's. You know, so we're looking for that Goldilocks situation where it's growing but enough to increase demand but not enough to increase, to increase or attract a lot of competition.   Sam Wilson (00:15:35) - What's one of the things that you have done from a management perspective and you're based in Wayne, Pennsylvania, so. That's right. And you're buying things in Mount Airy, North Carolina. That's more that's more than a five minute drive from your house.   Tom Dunkel (00:15:50) - That's right.   Sam Wilson (00:15:51) - So how how have you established systems and got the in and established the right people to manage these at scale from a distance?   Tom Dunkel (00:16:02) - Yeah, I mean, that's really, you know, the magic, you know, the secret sauce, although it's not very secret. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. It's. It's getting the right team together, right with the right systems. And of course, we're leveraging technology to the max. So those moms and pops that we buy from, a lot of times they don't even have a website.   Tom Dunkel (00:16:24) - And if they do, it's stale information. You know, it's rates from a few years ago and the phone numbers wrong, you know, all those kinds of things. So we implement what we call a hybrid management strategy. So each of our facilities has a human that is assigned to it. But because we leverage technology, the phone number that is at the facility, you know, if they call our facility in Douglasville, Georgia, it's going to ring on the cell phone of the human manager. But they might be out in Missouri. And so but because of technology, they're able to answer the phone. Hi, it's Douglasville Self Storage. And then, you know, nine times out of ten, they can handle whatever the customer inquiry is just right there on their smartphone. Right. And in the event that the manager is busy or maybe they are not able to pick up the phone, if the customer is at the facility, they're going to they're going to see one of these they're going to see a QR code.   Tom Dunkel (00:17:28) - And if anyone out there wants to have a little fun, you can scan this on your phone and you can run a unit from us at our Baltimore facility. But the the customer can just go up, scan that QR code, it'll take them to the website, They can fill out all their personal information load in their credit card for autopay, which is awesome. And then just sign the contract with their finger. And then once they submit all that, they get a gate code texted to them while they're right there standing outside the gate punching the gate. Code gate opens up. They go inside, they find their unit, empty out their stuff, lock it up, and they're on their way without having to interact with the human at all. So so we love doing that and it allows us to really drive down our operating expenses at our facilities, which is everyone out there, I'm sure knows because you've got a smart audience that drives up net operating income, which drives up the value of the facility, which is the whole purpose of our value add strategies that we implement.   Sam Wilson (00:18:32) - And it improves the customer experience. I mean, that's the last thing is, yes, it drives up in why. But Tom, if you gave me the option to rent from you where I can do it from my phone, plug in my information and be done in five minutes versus walking inside hand it being handed, you know, 42 pieces of paper and filling out all information.   Tom Dunkel (00:18:51) - That's right. That's right. And and you got that generational difference, too, right? I mean, you know, millennials are our biggest generation right now in the US. And that's you know, they were all born with a smartphone in their hands. Pretty much. Right. Right.   Sam Wilson (00:19:05) - For better and probably for worse. That's right. Yes. That's that's very, very true. Tom, we've got a few minutes here left, and I wanted to highlight a couple of things and just get your thoughts on them. This is, again, you know, the fact that we talked about this in the beginning. You came on September 18th or the show published September 18th of last year.   Sam Wilson (00:19:25) - Some things have changed. It's some things have changed in the financing side of things. On the sales side of things. Yeah. Tell me, how are you guys navigating the current lending environment? How has that affected deal flow? How has it affected pricing fast? Three questions and money as opposed to ask one at a time. So it's up to you now.   Tom Dunkel (00:19:45) - Sure. Yeah. I mean, things have certainly been dynamic the past nine months since we spoke last. And, you know, rates are interest rates are up, you know, 4 or 5%. I mean, which is huge, right? I mean, we were doing deals that, you know, three and three quarters or 4% debt back then. But, you know, now it's a different ballgame. And, you know, we've been able to adapt. Of course, none of this was really a surprise. I mean, we all saw, you know, all the money that had been printed and, you know, that inflation was coming and that was going to push up rates.   Tom Dunkel (00:20:17) - And so we, you know, having been around, you know, the deals and projections and all that for for many, many years, jeez, you know, Wow. Going on 30. Wow. Anyway, I'm not that old. So we knew this was coming, right, Sam So we were we were already adjusting our models, adjusting our exit Capri assumptions and our future rate assumptions and all those kinds of things. And and so we've, we've been very disciplined and about the facilities that we purchased. And for that reason, we've, we haven't purchased a whole heck of a lot. I mean, we're we just closed on our 13th facility. We've got our 14th coming up here soon. But our acquisition pace definitely slowed down because. A lot of sellers were looking back a year saying, Oh, I want that value, you know, from back then. And we're saying, Well, sorry, that's off the table now because our cost of capital is up and we have return targets that we need to hit for our investors.   Tom Dunkel (00:21:15) - So that's definitely slowed us down. But I guess the good news about that is because of the run up in pricing the last few years, there's a lot of owners out there sitting on a lot of equity and that has allowed us to to take advantage of seller financing. So we have we did a seller financing deal in the fall and we have two seller financing deals lined up here that are that will be closing here in the next month or two. And the beautiful thing about that is, well, it's really a win win, right? Because the seller, they're not getting a big tax hit right up front because if they took the whole purchase price, net purchase price and in cash, they'd have to pay a big chunk of taxes on that. So seller financing allows them to kind of push push out their tax liability there. And then for us, there's no big onerous underwriting process that you have to go through with an institutional lender. There's typically no personal guarantees, which again, on smaller deals from a credit union or a small local bank, there's going to be looking for personal guarantees, and the terms are typically pretty great.   Tom Dunkel (00:22:25) - So we're seeing interest only payments, which of course means lower lower payments, higher cash flow left over for our investors. So. So we love to see that.   Sam Wilson (00:22:36) - Absolutely. Tom, this has been enlightening. Thank you for taking the time to come on the show today and share your thoughts. You're kind of updated thoughts here with us on the market, how you guys are handling it, what you guys are doing there in the self storage space. It's a pleasure, of course, to have you come on a second time. You're an absolute wealth of knowledge. I do appreciate it. If our listeners want to get in touch with you and learn more about you, what is the best way to do that?   Tom Dunkel (00:22:59) - Sure, Sam. It's been great. Love the questions. Great energy. Love it. So, yeah. I'm Tom Dunkel. I'm the chief investment officer here at Belrose Storage Group. You can find us at Belrose Storage Group. We also have a Facebook page. If you want to search Belrose storage group on there, you can find my past podcast interviews and other articles and value add that we put out there for our investor community.   Tom Dunkel (00:23:25) - So yeah, I'd love to love to hear from you and I'd love to schedule a call. You can do that from our website as well. But yeah, we, we're active, we're out there doing self storage deals and we're, we're doing syndications with accredited investors. So I'd love to have you come join us.   Sam Wilson (00:23:38) - Fantastic. Belrose Storage group. We'll make sure we include that there in the show notes. Tom, thank you again for your time today. Do appreciate it.   Tom Dunkel (00:23:46) - Thank you, Sam.   Sam Wilson (00:23:47) - Hey, thanks for listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate podcast. If you can do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whatever platform it is, you use to listen. If you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners as well as rank higher on those directories. So appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.  

The week for the podcast ends tomorrow, Friday.  As usual, we'll end with this week's spotlight artists brian bringelson, Dw. Dunphy, and there will be another three artists from “Chimes That Reel And Rock” on the Ice Cream Man Power Pop and More Bandcamp site and record label!  As hour three draws to an end; I'll give you a listen in with NEXT week's featured artists Fernando Perdomo from “TRGTR”, French Girls from the album “French Girls , and Nolan Voide from “The Forever Endeavor!”  The Music Authority Podcast... listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat…heard daily on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes!  Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority!  Please, are you listening? Please, are you sharing the podcast?  Please, has a podcast mention been placed into your social media?  How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...*Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority Podcast!  Special Recorded Network Shows, too!  Different than my daily show! *Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT*Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks*Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  *The Sole Of Indie  https://soleofindie.rocks/  Monday Through Friday 6-7PM EST!June 22, 2023, Thursday, aisle three…Richard Turgeon - 04 I Don't Need You [The California Collection]Levi Lightning - Buy MeThe Brothers Steve - 07 Carry Me [#1] (Big Stir Records)Lisa Mychols Music – Don't Wanna Close My EyesDwight Twilley Band - 15 - Chance To Get AwayDolph Chaney +/- The Phins - 09 - Now I Am A Man [Chimes That Reel and Rock] (Ice Cream Man Power Pop and More)Jatk – AnaChris Richards and the Subtractions - 01 No Action [3peat - That Covers That (3)] (Futureman Records)Pat Todd & The Rankoutsiders - 09 Yeah, Ya Had A Bad Night [The Past Came Callin'] (Hound Gawd! Records)@Scientists - 03 - Frantic Romanticbrian bringelson - 06_Shot In The Dark [Burning Backwards] (koolkatmusik.com)The Goodstock Project – HotelMuscle Souls - 17 Mark On The World Willie Wisely Music - 10 It's Better Not To Care (solo) [Face The Sun] (koolkatmusik.com)Dw. Dunphy - 09 What Trenton Breaks The River Takes [Charm Offensive]Sudler's Row - IllusionThe Chickenbackers - 04_Hipsterboy [Yeh, Right Yeah! (koolkatmusik.com)Stephen Lawrenson - Thank You [IPO Vol 13]

In today's episode of Welcome to Cloundlandia, we discuss the intersection points of Da Vinci's genius and the current digital age as we explore the origins of technology and its impact on society.   SHOW HIGHLIGHTS Have you heard of psychological geometry? It's a way to understand the rules that govern our psychological world, like everything is made up, no one is in charge, and life isn't always fair. By understanding these rules, we can stay calm and cool and seize opportunities to lead in our niche or community. It's all about finding ways to thrive amid chaos. Richard Rossi's Da Vinci Experience sounds pretty cool - it featured presentations by Dave Asprey and a pediatrician expert in age reversal through supplements. Talk about a unique event. The Kaufman Protocol is all about age reversal, and Richard creates action plans for attendees of the Da Vinci Experience. It's all about finding ways to live our best lives, regardless of age. Ed Shulack is an architect turned CEO who built a network of companies inspired by Leonardo DaVinci's genius and ability to cross borders. It just goes to show that inspiration can come from anywhere. Technology has been shaping the world for centuries, from the invention of fire to the latest advances in AI and machine learning. It's amazing to think about how far we've come! From the microchip to the iPhone, technological advances from 1950 to 1985 have profoundly impacted society. It's fascinating to think about how much has changed in just a few decades. There's a lot of debate about where technology will take us in the future - will it lead to a utopian singularity or something else entirely? Only time will tell. Dan has some exciting plans, including setting up a genius profile and exploring training technology like a good dog. It's always great to have new goals to work towards. Embracing technology and AI as teammates can be a game-changer for productivity, creativity, and success - whether you're an individual or a business. It's all about finding ways to work smarter, not harder. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT Dean Jackson Mr Sullivan. Dan Sullivan Five Star General Jackson, oh my goodness, here we are. Dan Sullivan Every week that goes by that I don't talk to you, I add another star. Dean Jackson Okay, the Five Star General, I like it. Well, how was your adventures? You've been everywhere, haven't you? You went to Phoenix, you went to Austin, you've been, yeah. Dan Sullivan Well, we were in Sedona the week after, joe. And you know it's a beautiful, beautiful place. And then we were in Austin and we had a chance to go visit Tucker Max, who you know he sold Scribe probably a year and a half ago, and then he bought himself a 50, 58 acre ranch, and so, and he's a rancher, he's a rancher, and he looks like a rancher. He's the home parent, and Veronica is expanding his national network of nurse practitioners all across the United States because it's a big item. They got him right now. And then we went to Richard Rossi's Da Vinci 50. Which was terrific. I mean, it was really, really terrific. Dave Asprey was there And had a good catch up with Dave, Yeah, and then came back here and you know, and I had a busy week. We had a holiday Monday because it was Victoria. Day here and here in the colonial realm of Canada. The Canadian colony. And anyway, and so then back to work and it felt good. It felt good I had two free zones, connectors and I had a 10 times connector and we started book 35. The next book just coming back from the printer this week is I think I've talked to you about the geometry for staying calm and cool, geometry and quotation marks, because this isn't about spatial geometry, this is about psychological psychological geometry Right Yeah, psychological geometry. Dean Jackson There's three rules. Dan Sullivan Three rules controls psychological world. Everything's made up. That's the rule number one. Always has been is now well in the future. Number two is no base in charge. Okay. And number three life's not fair, Life's not fair. So the three. you put those three together and you get suddenly calm and cool And you begin to realize that everything's made up, so you can make up new things. Nobody's in charge. So there's nobody's permission to ask whether you can make up new things, and anything you make up is going to be advantageous to somebody and unfair to someone else. So just forget about that and just make up new things that other people find useful, and you're clear and free. Dean Jackson This is the best. What do? Dean Jackson We've talked about those things, those concepts, and I just can't. I have to wrap people's. One of the great things that I always get people to think about is that self-appointment. You're getting people to appoint themselves to the position and you take something. I think if you're taking a, you're organizing a group of people. If you're aiming to be a hero to somebody, you've got a group of people that you're aiming to be a hero to, which is one of your great thoughts that I love. And I had a guy I did a breakthrough blueprint this week in Orlando And I had a gentleman who he he was very popular in a niche of electronic controls for, like, semen and honey well, and these things that control all these air qualities and systems for enterprise level things, big office buildings and hotels and all that stuff. So it's kind of a small audience but he's kind of like the most known guy in the field. He's the only one that's kind of organizing the community. And I said you know this will go all the way and just like, appoint yourself to be the mayor of control town and start acting like it. There's nobody appointing anybody to the position of doing anything good, especially when you're like connecting people. You're connecting people in a good way. Everybody's very myopic, everybody's very only focused on what's in it for me, on their own sort of thing, and as soon as you start thinking about what can you do to help them or achieve what they're looking for, the whole world changes. Nobody, that's one of those. Life's not fair. It's not fair that well, wait a minute, you're not, you're just helping them get there. That's not fair, you can't do that for free. Dan Sullivan There's a certain thing that's not fair Yeah, I had somebody on one of the connector calls last week say you know, I'm not perfect at what I'm doing, and I said, oh, you are. I said why don't you just solve that perfection problem? Just declare yourself perfect and now improve it? Dean Jackson There you go perfect. Dan Sullivan That's so funny, yeah, perfect. Dean Jackson I liked the book title that you came up with for a future potential book from Genius Network. We were talking about AI and I believe the title you came up with was why AI doesn't matter, or something like that? Dan Sullivan No, I've actually nailed that It's not. AI I've actually I made it broader, i just made it technology period because AI. Oh okay, yeah, ai is just the 25th thing over the last 50 years, that's going to change? Yeah, this is it. Now everything changes and I said well, this is number 25, and there went the. AI. We didn't have the first 24. I mean, there is a genetic heritage here. Yeah, this goes way back, Anyway, by just technology. and so I came up in the only talk I ever gave Peter Diamonis's story about AI in 1960, was he. I mentioned that we already knew how to deal with technology a long time ago, because docs were actually our first technology. Way, way, way back. People mastered fire and then they figured out you should be near a river and they took. But the docs and this is before agriculture Dogs were domesticated before agriculture and dogs is actually a creation. There were no dogs, There were smart wolves and there were smart humans and they did a free zone collaboration and we came up with this thing. We came up with, this thing called dog, and that's anywhere between 30,000 to 40,000, they're not, because it seems to have happened independently. One of them happened in Europe and they know, another one happened in Southeast Asia And they're genetically different. so they know that the it was a different source, the wolf, different wolf genes in the two dogs, but anyway. so anyway, i just titled the book Training Technology Like a Good Dog. Dean Jackson Oh, that's so good, there you go. So technology doesn't matter. Training well, no, you have to be the alpha and you have to be the alpha. Dan Sullivan In both cases You don't get a good dog, unless you're the alpha, because the dog wants you to be the alpha. The dog Needs you to be the alpha because they're pack animals and they got to know what their, their rank and role is, you know? yeah and and technology. You have to establish that you're the alpha here and technology has to prove it's Worth. It has to prove its usefulness and and You know, and so. But, for example, you know just one. I know we're going to get into the AI Conversation here, but we just hired Evan Ryan to train our whole team. He's got a succession zoom Program that's called AI as your teammate. Okay, so Mm-hmm, which I thought was terrific. Yeah. Dan Sullivan Yeah, and so he's going to take everybody. But you just work on what you're already working at and he shows you that there's part of what you're working at that AI can be the teammate, Okay and yeah. So it's two hour sessions and we have six of them. And then you know and people don't have to do it, but they have to understand the consequences of that you know, and You know AI is not going to replace you. Somebody else who knows AI is going to replace you. That's exactly right, yeah, yeah. Dan Sullivan Yeah, so, so. Anyway, that's my report general. That's fun. Dean Jackson I've had. So I had a couple of mainland meet-ups since we've been on on Hey the I had. Lear Weinstein was down in Orlando a couple weeks ago Oh okay, and so we got. We had brunch at the four seasons for about five hours, just, you know, meeting up and talking about all kinds. Dean Jackson Yeah, I think he's. Dan Sullivan He's. That's not far away. I think he's in Atlanta mostly. Dean Jackson Yeah, he's yeah, so they've been. They were down at Disney At the four seasons, here at Disney World. So I made my way from the four seasons Valhalla over to the four seasons Orlando And we had a wonderful. We had a wonderful brunch. I got to meet his wife I don't know if you've met. Dan Sullivan Yeah, I met her. I met her at. She was at the. Annual genius genius network last year, so I met. Oh, okay. Dan Sullivan It was either last year or the year before. I am not quite sure. I think it might have been the year before and Yeah and but Lee are super sorry, he's, he's a he's also a wonderful human being. Yes, really. Dean Jackson So that was like good, i've you know, we've known each other, we've had some connection on online, so this was first one I've ever really spent any meaning and I think he's starting a mastermind. Dan Sullivan I think he's starting a mastermind group. Hey, I mastermind group Yeah. Yeah. Dan Sullivan Yeah, and then I Told Lee are yeah, you're bit. Number one obstacles in light is that you're good at everything you Put your mind to. Yeah. Uh-huh. Dan Sullivan Yeah, I said I don't have. I was saved that problem at birth. Dean Jackson Yeah, we had a good. We had a good talk about that exactly we did. He went through. We share the same profile in the Working genius. I don't know whether you've gone through that one. I think I've mentioned it to you. James Drage turned me on to it and I find it very Use this is a program. Dan Sullivan There's a program or a profile. Dean Jackson It's a profile similar to Colby, like that. Dan Sullivan Oh yeah but it doesn't. So you answer a whole bunch of. You answer a whole bunch of questions, right? Dean Jackson You answer questions just like Colby. It really takes 10 minutes to fit. Dan Sullivan I'll do it. I'll. I really I'd love to see what you know I will do? I will do this and I will record the results. Okay, perfect. Yeah, it's working. Geniuscom or something like that. Dean Jackson That's it. Yeah, i think that's where it is, but essentially it's. It's what your, what you're working genius is basically like what You, you play and it spells out. There's six elements that spell out the word widget, and each of them is a different genius. So W is wonder, and that means that you have a Genius for looking at something, seeing all the ways that it could be improved. Right then I is invention, where you have a genius for Making stuff up to, to create you solution to things. Dan Sullivan Every everything's made up and including a new program called working genius. That just got made up right. Dean Jackson And then D is discernment, which meaning you have the genius of knowing what's the right thing to do in this situation. And G is Galvanizing me, gathering all the people and the resources that you need to be able to do something. E is Enablement, and that's about supporting the You know, the team or the property, or making sure everybody has what they need to be performing and doing their portion of the project. And then T is tenacity, and tenacity is Be like the equivalent, probably a follow through, the ability to Cross all the T's and dot all the eyes and drive something to completion, and Dd all of it in order to get any Project done. But two of them are your genius that you like thrive in those two, and two of them are Your worst, your kryptonite kind of thing. So for me, i am your. Just wow your wi I'm discernment, discernment any mention, or my top two, and double you as a third. Yeah. So that's funny, but that's it's like it makes sense that that's the, you know and it fits, before it really does fit, because when you take it I think you'll find it very interesting. Dan Sullivan Well, you know it's kind of funny. I was just looking at dividing widget into two parts W-I-D and T-E-T. And who not? how That's? Dean Jackson exactly right. It's weird. Dan Sullivan I'm with it, but somebody's got to get it. I'm with it, but somebody's got to get it. Oh, that's funny. Dan Sullivan Here, boy, that's exactly what it is. Here's a new one boy Here, That is so funny. I'm going to be all over that. I'll have that done by the end of the day. I'll tell you. Okay, perfect. I'm flying to London tonight. Dean Jackson I was just going to say. I hear you're flying to London. I fond memories of London. Dan Sullivan Yeah, but Babs is down with some sort of you know coughing thing today. So she just decided to stay home and get mended, and we've gotten a lot of useful suggestions from David Hasse, who's our number one medical number one medical. He's got to get some help actually help And so she's going to explore these these weeks, but she doesn't want the travel. really, you don't want to get something that tires you out. Speaker 1 Right. Dan Sullivan You know when you're you got to stay put and let your body do the healing, and so she just. so, instead of it being 10 days, i'm just going to go tonight and I'll be back on Friday And I don't have I don't market in live sessions anymore. That's all done on. that's all done on Zoom which is just such a great thing, And and so I, thursday in London we have the we're at the Berkeley Berkeley hotel which is out there, and you know, in May, pier Kensington, that area yeah, in that in that area. So, I have all the non 10 times in free zone in the morning and the 10 times in free zone people can be there, But in the afternoon I just have. UK, not UK clients, but people who would go to London for their, you know, for workshops, workshops right, yeah. And they're either on the virtual 10 times or they're going to London or and a lot of them come to the United. They come to Canada and the United States and the free zone, of course they come to, that's Gary and, and Guy and Gary are the first to the and Peter Buckle. Peter Buckle is a free zone. And then we had Helen, who is from Newcastle, but her both her parents died and she's at all landed on her. Dean Jackson So taking a year up. Dan Sullivan Yeah, so anyway, we're yeah. So anyway it'll be a quick trip and then I get back, and you know we've only gotten back until the following Tuesday, so picked up some days, you know. Mm, hmm. Dean Jackson Yeah, well, that's the dressing. So what was the highlights of your Da Vinci experience? Dan Sullivan Rich, I tell you, Richard has created a gem. I actually created a gem, And so this is my second one, and it's essentially two and a half days. You start on Wednesday at lunch and then you go and, and so we had three or four really, really great presentations, including Dave Asprey, the marvelous presentation But one of them was this woman. She's great around you, She's I think she's in you know, she might be in Boca Raton or something like that and she's really the the leading expert on using supplements to reverse your age. These are supplements and she's got a thing called the Kaufman protocol. That's the name of the book. I think that's the name of her book, but I think she was a pediatrician. She just got fascinated in this age reversal thing and she's a terrific presenter. And what the neat thing about Richard is that she was there on the Wednesday afternoon, she spoke again on the Thursday and she spoke again on Friday. So he can take a present. Dan Sullivan So, and what? the last one is action to take. You know action to take, So he sets it up, So it's free, but you get an overview and then you talk about where the breakthroughs are, and then you have an action plan. So he's, it's beautifully curated. I mean, Richard, Richard, superb at this and he's, he's he's the most laid back. You know, friend of the front of the room I mean he's and he's got that, you know, devilish sense of humor, and I mean he's got very, you know, he's sort of pick, he's self self humorous, he tells jokes about himself And and so. And then we had an amazing person and this one wasn't recorded because there was a lot of inside organizational knowledge on it, and but it's a guy named Ed Shulack and he's a marvelous person And he was an architect and then he got an idea and this is just kind of shows you where his mind was. He was an architect and, you know, successful, but then he I think Trump was the big thing, but Trump started, and I think it started before Trump, but Trump really went gun hoe with it. No, no, it was way before Trump, because he started this in the 80s, you know 70s and 80s And what it was is the United States established a thing called tax free trade zones. Okay, and there's I think there's about 20, 25 of them in the US now, here in 2023. And what it is? they're a tax free trade zone, so it's places where companies from outside of the United States could come and present their you know their goods here And they have factories there, so they can. You know, business can. Things can actually be created in business. But what Ed got the notion of? in the last 70s is that virtually all the airports, the major take. Orlando, for example, take. Miami for example, that almost all the big airlines airports in the US airfields were had a lot of farmland around them still. And so he went up, bought up, he bought up all the farmland, Okay around any broad. Okay, oh yeah, and so he, and so he essentially owned the land that the trade zones were on, and, and essentially, and then when he was 55, he sold out for a humongous amount. And then he, he lives in Detroit and terrific, just, and very, very quiet, very, very quiet, very like isn't it wonderful that I get to do this, but what? he did is that he was starting to get into the Regenerative Medicine. You know that was starting to develop and he met Peter Diamandis and he said you know, i'm just going to see who the dozens and top people are in this field. I'm going to have an invitation. I'm really good at organization or anything. So I'll give you three, three months of my time if you'll just inform me of everything that you're doing. Okay. And and he did. You know with what's his name? the guy who did the first gene map, craig. Venture. Dan Sullivan Yeah, craig Venture, he was the first one Yeah. So, anyway, he's got great CEO capabilities. This Ed Sheeran like does. So what he did was he started seeing where all the startups were along this way and he'd fund startups, and then he would buy startups and put together funds that bought him up, and then he started creating these networks And his inspiration was Leonardo DaVinci, because Leonardo crossed over borders. Speaker 1 It was a big thing, you know he did. Dan Sullivan You know, in the morning he'd paint the you know the Mona Lisa. In the afternoon he'd create a new weapons system, and then in the evening he'd create a new architectural widget, and then, you know, and then the next day he'd do other things. You know, he'd take a body apart and everything and do the drawings totally illegally and and everything else, and then he'd trade something else. And he said all real breakthroughs are where you're crossing a border from one world to the other. It's almost like crossing from the mainland to Quadland, you know as a crossover. Yeah, and now he's got this. He's got four groups of companies. You know, he's probably combined about 23 companies, but he's organized them and all integrated A lot of them in the Boston area. And we met him two years ago, we were on Peter Diamandis's longevity trip in Boston, and then he got up but he only got, like, you know, a lot, a lot. You know, you only got about 40, 40 minutes or so, but here he had like two and a half hours and then he stayed and you know, and by asking him a question right at the end, which fascinated him, i said Ed, we know what you've done since 55, but what were the five capabilities, the stack of capabilities that you put together before 55 that make you probably the only person in the world who can do what you're doing. And he found that fast. He found that and he named three of them. You know, like when he was a teenager, when he was in his twenties, when he was in his thirties, but there wasn't time to get the other two out. So at dinner that night he said I like to explore with you You're thinking on this because I hadn't thought about the connections between these things as it relates to me now. And he says my mind is kind of going a little bit crazy with this, so can you give me a call and we'll finish the other five and then tell me what I should do with that? So he gave me his card, so I'm going to give him a call. Dean Jackson Terrific guy, i mean just marvelous person That's so great, and how old is he now? Dan Sullivan I'm just trying to think right now. I think he's probably late, 60s, 60s, 67, 68. Yeah, yeah, i mean kind of guy. you know, he's the kind of guy that a 79 year old can help out, right, exactly. Dean Jackson You know these young people, they, you know yeah these young people, you know they're. Happy birthday, by the way, You were oh yeah celebrated your birthday while you were gone? Yeah, last Friday. Dan Sullivan It was the last day of the Da Vinci, that was my birthday and they gave me a wonderful treat. They gave me three sliders with birthday candles out of each of the sliders. Dean Jackson I saw that. I saw the video. Yeah, that's close. Dan Sullivan Plus, plus, you know a big dish of coleslaw. of course You have to have coleslaw if you're going to have sliders. And major food groups. You know you've got to have the major food groups there. Dean Jackson Well, you know, I told somebody posted it in the. You had a birthday earlier. That's exactly right. Yeah, so we're both. You caught back up again. You're 22 years ahead. Yeah, there's a couple weeks when you've. Dan Sullivan You chronologically kind of try to close the distance, but then about two weeks later, right, i return things back to normal. Dean Jackson That's exactly right. That's exactly right. I was realizing, talking with Luba, we were, i was explaining about the What's really been a profound thought for me. I've really been giving a lot of time in my journals and thinking about guessing and betting. That's been a big That's been a big thing like an eye-opener. It's such a simple thing but profound when you really think about what the implications are. And I haven't thought about it, we've been talking about it. But I was going back thinking 25 years. We were looking like 25 years ago 1997, i moved to Florida, so 26 years ago now We were thinking even about 25 years. And then your birthday. I was showing her the Blider post or whatever, and we realized the distance between 2000 and now. How fast that's gone, that distance forward now. And I'll be 82 years old, lord willing. That's the big thing, right? What an amazing. Dan Sullivan Actually Dean willing. Speaker 1 Yes, exactly, that's exactly what. Dan Sullivan I'm talking about. Dean Jackson That's exactly what. Dan Sullivan I'm talking about Dean willing. These are two different roles. Dean and. God. Speaker 1 That's exactly right. Dean Jackson That's right. We don't say Lord willing, and the Creek Stilts ride. Speaker 1 That's the Dean willing. Dean Jackson You're absolutely right, but you think about that just amazingly, it's a different. Those middling 25 years from 30 to 55 is a different 25 years than 55 to 80. Speaker 1 That's really good. Dan Sullivan I came up with another. it's sort of like it's a new relative of the lifetime extender. Okay, And it occurred to me because I'm almost 80, so I'll be 80 next year, but in the last nine years, since my 70th birthday, which there was a person who I won't say lie, but it was a subterfuge, there was no question, it was a subterfuge who invited me for dinner on my 70th birthday night. And I didn't realize I was going to have dinner with 300 people because you had a role in that subterfuge. Dean Jackson I did. I remember that night. That's so funny. It's so funny how you guys simplified things. Dan Sullivan I won't accuse you of lying, but it was diversionary. There was certainly diversionary. Dean Jackson And if you were award, academy Awards given for that act to get you up there? Speaker 1 hey, gang you want to see the room where I do my birthday. Dan Sullivan We got to see the room where I see it. Dean Jackson Of course I do. yes, That was something so exciting to see as a look on your face. Dan Sullivan I was looking back to that night and I've been far more creative and productive since my 70th birthday than I was from 1 to 70. I'm just establishing that Now I've set the goal that when I'm 89, the creativity and productivity during my 80s will be greater than everything that happened before the 80s. It's a really nice structure because you're already at the top of your game for a lot of things and probably you just have to keep multiplying with your top of the game stuff. Dean Jackson Yeah, you look at your like it has been quite an amazing 10 years. You went literally from that was sort of on the cuff of you had just started the 10-time program, basically a few years into that. Then you created free zones in that period of time. Now you're exclusively free zones. Dan Sullivan Yeah, i'm still doing the 10 times connectors, which is proven very valuable. I'm still doing that. I've committed for 24 because I've really enjoyed the ones. I gave everybody a commitment when I do it to the end of 23,. But I really want to do it because the fact that I'm coaching these little two hour sessions is pulling people from signature into 10 times and it's moving 10 timers into free zones. I'm creating new tools too for the 10 times program. It's all good. It's so funny because my team was saying, well, there isn't time in your schedule. We've looked at the schedule for the rest of the year and I said, well, you know those dates aren't in cement. I said these are suggestions of how I could spend my time. I said, but this is all in the I'm a 10 quick start. I said this is the most negotiable human being on the planet. Is a 10 quick start. Yeah, because something new is always more interesting than something that's already scheduled. Dean Jackson Yeah, amen, yeah Well, that's it. Dan Sullivan So I said I said don't look at the schedule and say Dan doesn't have any time. Come and talk to Dan about it and Dan will look at the schedule and say, well, we can move this to here, We move this, and we pre up three hours or four hours. We can always, you know, I mean anywhere where I've made a commitment, like it's a workshop commitment, that's fixed. Yeah. And you know, or a 10 time connector call Yeah, Or where I'm attending to something and I, you know, I've given my commitment I'm going to do it. But if it's just internal, you know it's internal things, like you know, I said, that's come and talk to me about this. Yeah, i have a Lillian. Come and talk to the decider. Dean Jackson Right It was so funny. Lillian forwarded me her email with back and forth on getting up on the schedule because she had taken it off the calendar. Yeah, And then back then was explaining to Lillian how she had the conversation with you and you said where's my Dean Jackson podcast? She said, well, I think you're leaving and you're getting ready to go to London. Dan Sullivan And I said you know, i said you're thinking about how long it takes Babs to get ready for London. Speaker 1 You're not thinking how long it takes me to get ready. Dean Jackson I said Babs, i'm ready right now. Dan Sullivan If we're leaving on Sunday night, Babs is starting on Saturday morning. There's no time for anything else. Okay, I said I got it down. 45 minutes before the limousine picks us up is when I start packing. I'm already in 45 minutes. You know, I've adapted a total Dean Jackson wardrobe. I said you know, i got three pairs of jeans. I got five long sleeve uniglo, you know, navy blue, black. You know, not black but navy blue. I can't go to black, i can go to navy blue, and then I've got socks, and then I have workout clothes and you know my toilet kit and you know my meds. Yeah, I don't know what else I have. You know how long does that take to go, you know and. I now take everything that I could get by with for a whole week just in my carry on. Dean Jackson Yes, exactly. Dan Sullivan Because hotels have laundry hotels. Speaker 1 Right And everything. Dan Sullivan Right. Speaker 1 Yeah. Dan Sullivan And it's on the plane with me, because last year We arrived in London and 50 passengers didn't get their just didn't get their luck to get their luggage and I said that's never, and you know, and everybody's combating about air Canada. I says big systems are falling apart. As a matter of fact, one of my one of my next quarter, sometime in the not too distant future, i've got a book called big systems falling apart And you know, and I said you know, big systems are having a hard time. Speaker 1 You know they're you know, first of all. Dan Sullivan A lot of their good people are retiring right now because they were boomers and the boomers are packing it in And that was the biggest work generation in the history of the United States And, yeah, yeah, by 2029 they will have all reached 65, and you know they're you know, and you know, and people say, yeah, but you know, they're old people. I said, yeah, they have systems. They have system, they have the institutional wisdom though they've been through. Speaker 1 so many situations. Dan Sullivan They know how to improvise, they know how to adjust and everything else. I said people that they're replacing with people in their 20s and 30s and they're trying to deal with complexity out of a rulebook. Speaker 1 Yeah, Yeah, yeah, that's the. What do you notice in? Dan Sullivan what do you notice, seeing about changes that are actually sticking, because a lot of it is just, you know, it's just ocean, storms and waves, it's not really a long term current. What do you mean on your friend? just noticing? Dean Jackson I mean, you know, i read, yeah, I read. You know, years ago I don't know how many years ago now, but there was a article in the New York Times about the tyranny of convenience And that was that was the thought that they had is that once we as a society experience a new convenience, it's ratcheted in, basically that we don't rarely, we rarely go backwards to hard. Once you've yeah, we're once you've experienced, you know, machine washing your clothes We don't go back to and washing You know it's like that The whole thing. And we've experienced, we've progressed forward Where, you know, you used to have to sit in front of the television at the right time to watch the gun smoke or whatever was on TV at that time. Then we got to the VCR where you could record it and you decide when you want it, but you only could watch the things that you have. And now we've gone through you could basically watch anything, time, anywhere, on any device, and it's really a like see that, as that we're ratcheted in becomes the new norm and expectation You know. And so I think that those but it also I was sharing that I found the you know the stats the most written. They're constantly going up, but the most recent stats that I had heard was, you know, four and a half million hours a day of video uploaded to YouTube into a system that is consuming five and a half million hours a day of video across the whole platform. So the daily needs are basically going they're being met every every two days. It's double the amount of the ability we have to consume it. You know, and I really think that there's, along with chat, what I'm finding chat GPP is going to do now is that, as long as all this content is being created, it's chat GPP. If you think about it as your team member, like you mentioned earlier, you don't need to be able to consume everything to know it, because you've got a super smart team member who has access to all of it and can summarize it or use whatever you need to know. It's a hunting dog. Dan Sullivan It's a. It's a retriever. Speaker 1 It's a hunting dog. Dan Sullivan Yeah, yeah, but. But it's also a sushi chef combined with a hunting dog. Dean Jackson A sushi chef combined with a hunting dog, yeah. Dan Sullivan Yeah, i mean it just doesn't bring you back the animal unskinned. It actually skins it and, you know, breaks out the different meat portions, organizes them, puts packages and brings it back to you. Dean Jackson Yeah, i mean, that's really. that is exactly right And I think that's really a you know how we got here. I think about that whole welcome to uh Farlandi. I'd love to see. I wish the guy who wrote the big change. You know the book that I recommended. Dan Sullivan Yeah, that was a good he would do one on the 1950 to now. Dean Jackson Yeah, that's what I mean And that's been interesting that I, you know, I contend that from 1950 to 1985, there was not as much change as there was from, you know, 1950 to 1950 kind of thing, that 35 years. Dan Sullivan Well, I think the you know, I think the half century is good because there was a tremendous number of breakthroughs before the first world war, you know, and um, yeah, but I agree with you the 1950 to uh 19,. Yeah, 1985 is a good year, yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 That was sort of static. Dan Sullivan Yeah, the world was kind of living off interest. You know it wasn't like that. Dean Jackson That's where. that's where I think we are right now, Like I think we got to where we got to, where you had radio, you had television, you had books, magazines, all of that stuff, automobiles, electricity, everything was that sort of like full maturity, air travel, right, all of it was 1950. We kind of got to that point where all those things were now fully natural and integrated into our society And it feels like we had a, you know, this amazing period of thriving from 1950 to 1985 on the back of that platform. We kind of got used to it and all of the good stuff that came out of people adopting those things. And it feels like in 2000, you know, 2022, here or 2023, where we've gotten to with digitization, everything ever, you know, if you just even take content stuff, um, you know we got from where somebody could create and broadcast television, you know, to people and somebody could make movies and put it, but it was a very few people who were you? know there were only opening television networks, three television networks and you know half a dozen or a dozen movie studios and music companies. All the content was being metered out by a few people in charge right, very capital intensive to set together. But now we're at a point where everybody has access to everything ever written and created or recorded up to now and the ability to create and broadcast to everybody. And I think that we're going to be in a period now of I don't know how long, but I think we're going to see now the emergence of a period of settling down into that right That we're going to. Dan Sullivan I agree, i agree, well, i agree 100% with what you're saying. You know I mean because um and um, there was, you know, a very creative period, but when you think about it, the microchip you know started to become really accessible to individuals. You didn't really have the microchip, except you know where you could actually, i mean, things were improving that you had the benefit of The mid-play-day-to. That's where it started right Yeah, and. I agree with it, but it wasn't until graphic user interface that computers really became useful to you know to people. You know it was Xerox that created it, never used it. Steve Jobs stole it and then Bill Gates stole it from Steve Jobs. You know creative borrowing And you know, and that's all of a sudden the world could have computers. And then out of that, you know, the military had created the internet. It was the, it was the intelligence communities in the military created the internet and they said, hey, you know, we can, you know we can make this commercial. And then they did, and then you had, you know, then you had, and you know the internet was another big, big new capability. And then you had, you could have your phone could become a computer. Dean Jackson You know with the iPhone, but in a way you had to I think you did on the ad with the graphical user interface is really what allowed that. But there was still a learning And I think that where we're getting now, with all of the technology and all the stuff that's available And chat, gpt or, you know, open AI, all that stuff is really like an intellectual user interface where you can just articulate your ideas. You just tell in, you just articulate what you want, and your teammate can go and make all of that happen in terms of creating even all of the tools to access everything that's ever been. Create new stuff to your articulated specification, you know for your projects, you know your project. Dan Sullivan Yeah, and you know, and I just had some thoughts and I, you know people, you know I was talking to the people who you know think that the growth just keeps going more exponential in the future And you know, at a certain point, the singularity, god will come and announce world peace and take care of all of us. You know, and I said you know, i think it's going the other way. I said, first of all, everybody, you know, everybody in the world knows about, you know, chat GPT. I said maybe, maybe 1% have heard about it. I said 99% of people don't doubt. I haven't a clue what people are talking about you. Dean Jackson know right, they're worried about having enough. Dan Sullivan Half the world still kind of a bit nervous about whether they're going to have enough to eat that day. You know they got other things on their mind But I pointed out to somebody. I said I bet 95% of the practical use is being done in English. You know it's not even done in another language. You know, and it's the English speaking. You know it's the main English speaking countries and you know people in India who speak English and other people who speak English, but it's all kind of an English speaking tyranny. I mean, the Chinese, of course, are trying to do their own thing, but who cares what the Chinese do? And you know and the and so it's I think I was speaking and 90% of the 100, you know the 100% are doing it is in the United States, because Americans are that type of people And and I would say the productive people who are already productive without AI are going to become 10 times more productive. The people who are already creative without AI, are going to become 10 times more creative, and I said this is not lessening the equality in the world. This is going to, you know it's going to be, you know, solar system wide that the inequality in the world, and, and but life's not fair. Dean Jackson Life's not fair, that's right. Dan Sullivan Nobody's in charge. Yeah, and everything's made up. There are people. Oh, that feels so much better. I was looking for my Xanax, you know great. Speaker 1 Just disclosure. Dan Sullivan Disclosure I don't take Xanax, i take something else. Dean Jackson Exactly. Speaker 1 Yeah, i take my and I'm even cutting down on that. Dan Sullivan You know I'm, i'm, are you really? Speaker 1 Yeah. Dan Sullivan Yeah, i'm down about, i would say, 40% in usage because, I'm doing this brain neuro potential. Dean Jackson Right. Dan Sullivan And I've shown my brain scan show quite a shift in six months. you know that during the night my brain is sleeping and during the day my brain is creating worse. A lot of it was the opposite, you know, and a lot of it was the opposite when I started the scans and I was doing a lot of creative work during the night and I was kind of dozing along during the day. Speaker 1 I'm not, I'm certain. Dan Sullivan Yeah, so anyway, but anyhow so. And the other thing is that there are certain industries that are going to get pounded by AI and certain industries are going to be supported by AI. But, here's just an example. You know and I quoted this on the program before, but I want to put it in this context between September of 21 and September 22. There was a four million drop in new college students. Okay, so freshman college. Wow Four million, four million, but at the same time the community colleges, which are teaching you know the trades and everything, are going through the roof. They've never gone through an expansion like this because there isn't going to be any AI plumbers, there isn't going to be any AI, you know, carpenters. Speaker 1 Right. Dan Sullivan You're finding that out yourself with your, your force, your force for renovation and exactly. Speaker 1 Yeah, you're, you're not you're not entirely. Dan Sullivan You're not. You're not entirely voluntary renovation. Dean Jackson Right, exactly, Which is just now coming to an end. We still have the dining room, But we just now this week got the carpet finished and everything. Yesterday We moved everything back into place or whatever. So it feels more settled now, but I mean we're not not quite there yet. But yeah, what a three months that whole ordeal Yeah, it took us eight months, took us eight months to get our office back. Dan Sullivan Yeah, yeah, because we had the city water main broke and it destroyed our created the studio, by the way, Yeah, i have, and right along the lines of your friends and you know they gave us and they, you know, our team, karen Scorac, is still touching base and they said we'll give you whatever help you need, you know. so your guys have been just super, you know and yeah, we have a whole. We have a whole new studio, same space. But you know, we've asked the city to repair its water main, please, and put some barriers between the water main when it breaks outside. And I mean, it was 19,. It was put in in the 1920s, so you know, things can fall apart in 100 years and anyway. But yeah, much more great. We have exactly the same space but it's incredibly more productive. We got five studios, we got zoom studios you know right along the lines of the studio that you go to. Dean Jackson Oh, that's so great. That's good news. I meant to tell you know I just had a wonderful surprise yesterday. we were just putting everything back and then Luba had been kind of keeping issues like doing having a little secret from me, but also walked in the door And yesterday afternoon, just a surprise. He had come over from Amsterdam and was in Miami. But he came up for came up yesterday and just walked in. I had no idea he was coming. So it was such a great surprise. It was really good to see him. So I spent the last 24 hours with Matjielko. Dan Sullivan He's so tired. By the way, yeah, tell him he's lucky that you're not a trigger happy American. Exactly That's exactly right Of course you have gates and you have guards where you live so Yeah, and Luba was conspiring with him for the whole arrival, so that was funny. Yeah it was very interesting because you know they're not living in the United States. I've observed that there's a certain level of paranoia DNA in most Americans. They have sort of a paranoia, and generally, is that things are falling apart. This is the end of the United States. That's one of the paranoia. And the other way is they're going to, the government is going to take away all our guns And they're going to start going through the Bill of Rights, the first 10 amendments, and they're going to, they're going to take away all the freedoms that you get from the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. I said yeah. I said I'm a big history buff. I'm running out in the United States. I think this is the 25th time that we're. It's like. You know, this is the technology that changes everything. Well, this is the you know and. I said, yeah, this is about the 25th time that the United States has fallen apart and this is the end. You know, you got to get. You know you got to. You got to do some deep breathing exercise. You know you got to relax. You have to learn how to relax and everything like that. But but one of the things is that I was going back to the AI thing that have you ever seen a site you've given me a great reference today with working genius, but there's a great site called visual capitalist. Have you ever seen that? Dean Jackson No, I have not, yeah, it's free Capitalistcom. Dan Sullivan Siri wants to know if there's anything I can help her She can help me with, and, as always, there's absolutely nothing that Siri can help me with, so I just want her to let. I want her to know that you know usually. I take my. usually I take my watch and I put it in the freezer for about five hours, you know, just to put Siri on ice. By the way, visual cap just plug it in and they got it right there. Speaker 1 It's so great. Dan Sullivan Yeah, it's really good, and they convert all news into diagrams and they and look at the one on AI. who gets harmed by AI? Speaker 1 Okay, and blue collar. Dan Sullivan Blue collar jobs are totally protected. There's not going to be. There might be some. You know some things regarding the organization around blue collar and everything else that'll be, you know, affected, but it's all you know. You do not understand, you never understand. So anyway, she's, she's talking to me again And anyway, see, this is not a well trained dog, this is serious. Speaker 1 Not a well trained dog. Dan Sullivan Okay, she, she thinks I'm going to take her out for a walk. I'm not. Anyway, the anyway, but it's very, very intriguing. And they were just talking about they're all white collar middle management jobs. You know they're you know I mean, some of them are like programmers and coders and everything else, but they're already, they're already getting slaughtered. But but it's going to be basically all those who do a four year or seven year college education so that they can be information transfers, and you know they. But it's basically jobs that have no value creation compared with them. They're going to get. They're going to get slaughtered. Yeah, this is great They have a section you can just go they. They have a, you know an accumulating site for AI. I love it, yeah, yeah, but it'd be interesting. I mean it'd be interesting, it would add to your, you know, because diagrams I mean good diagrams are really useful. Dean Jackson Of course they are. These are, these are world classes. This is great, thank you. Speaker 1 That's a great resource. Dean Jackson So there's some that'll be. we got some good cliffhangers for next time. We'll find out. Dan Sullivan Tune in What will Dan working I'll have my I'll have my, I'll have my working, working genius profile by the end of the day. I can't wait. Awesome, Well, safe trial. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going to send you the results. We have to wait and. I'll be back. I'll be back. We won't be in London, so I'll be back next Sunday, same time. Dean Jackson I'll be here too. Speaker 1 Okay. Dean Jackson Thank you, thank you, bye.

I think I just need a break from everything for a while and not from recording podcasts, because I want to keep that going, but just other things

Pop Radio UK Show #208!!! On the way to 26,000 downloads of the show!  THANK YOU for all YOU do to help get these deserving artists heard!  Great music IS STILL being created, and I bring it to you here.  The way RADIO is SUPPOSED to sound!  Give A Listen!  Like, Download, Comment, Share, Repeat.  Lame-stream radio... Variety...I do not think they TRULY know the meaning of the word!  That's why I do what I do here... Pop Radio UK!!!!!!!  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast bringing Power Pop, Rock, Soul, Rhythm & Blues to anyone and everyone who wants to expand their rock and roll radio knowledge!  Shows NOW on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, PlayerFM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, Pocket Cast, Apple iTunes Podcasts!!  Please!  Follow me on Twitter JimPrell@TMusicAuthority  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast! https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/   The Podcast can also be heard here - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   *Radio Candy Radio Mon, Wed, Fri 7 PM ET, 4PM PT.  *Rocking The KOR!  www.koradio.rocks 7PM UK, 2PM ET, 11AM PT Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday! *Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!!  Research and reach out to the bands let them know you heard me playing their songs! Pop Radio UK Show #208!!! SUPER 8 Music- Music-Authority-ThemeSkidders - Mary Annie's Song [Skidders Friends]The Forty Nineteens - 08 I'm Always Questioning Days [New Roaring Twenties] (Big Stir Records)Allan Kaplon - One Big Parade [Notes On A Napkin]@Richard Turgeon - 08 Live Forever [10 Covers - Volume II]@Results Of Adults - 8. Kittens Touch The Sky [Interstellar Peach Delight]Nolan Voide - The Music Authority JingleTommy Ray - 07_Feel The Pain [Handful Of Hits] (koolkatmusik.com)Duncan Reid and the Big Heads - 14 God Save Me Now [Bombs Away]Blueanimal - 07 Because of You [On My Mind]No Museums - 05 Bungalows [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Ryan Allen - 04 Can You Take My Thoughts Away [Digital Hiss]@SoulBird - The Music Authority JingleThe Chickenbackers - 03_The Servant [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)John Larson and the Silver Fields - 06 Hate To Wait [The Great Pause]Crocodyle - 03 - Passenger Seat [Sharing a Twin Bed - EP]Brad Marino - 03 Looking for Trouble [Even The Score] (Rum Bar Records)David Woodard - 03 Orbits [Butterfly Effect]Owen Denvir - Rewind [Sticks, Stones & Bones]Pale Lips - 09 Hiding From The Moon [After Dark]THE BABLERS- 15 Love Is Everything! (Speedy's Sixties Mix) [Psychadilly Circus] (Big Stir Records)

Radio Candy Radio Show #82!!!! On the way to 26,000 downloads of the show!  THANK YOU for all YOU do to help get these deserving artists heard!  Great music IS STILL being created, and I bring it to you here.  The way RADIO is SUPPOSED to sound!  Give A Listen!  Like, Download, Comment, Share, Repeat.  Lame-stream radio... Variety...I do not think they TRULY know the meaning of the word!  That's why I do what I do here... Radio Candy Radio!!!!   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast bringing Power Pop, Rock, Soul, Rhythm & Blues to anyone and everyone who wants to expand their rock and roll radio knowledge!  Shows NOW on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, PlayerFM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, Pocket Cast, Apple iTunes Podcasts!!  Please!  Follow me on Twitter JimPrell@TMusicAuthority  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast! https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/   The Podcast can also be heard here - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   *Radio Candy Radio Mon, Wed, Fri 7 PM ET, 4PM PT.  *Rocking The KOR!  www.koradio.rocks 7PM UK, 2PM ET, 11AM PT Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday! *Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!!  Research and reach out to the bands let them know you heard me playing their songs! Radio Candy Radio Show #82!!!! SUPER 8 Music - Music-Authority-ThemeSkidders - Mary Annie's Song [Skidders Friends]The Forty Nineteens - 08 I'm Always Questioning Days [New Roaring Twenties] (Big Stir Records)Allan Kaplon - One Big Parade [Notes On A Napkin]@Richard Turgeon - 08 Live Forever [10 Covers - Volume II]@Results Of Adults - 8. Kittens Touch The Sky [Interstellar Peach Delight]Nolan Voide - The Music Authority JingleTommy Ray! - 07_Feel The Pain [Handful Of Hits] (koolkatmusik.com)Duncan Reid and the Big Heads - 14 God Save Me Now [Bombs Away]Blueanimal - 07 Because of You [On My Mind]No Museums - 05 Bungalows [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Ryan Allen - 04 Can You Take My Thoughts Away [Digital Hiss]@SoulBird - The Music Authority JingleThe Chickenbackers - 03_The Servant [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)John Larson and the Silver Fields - 06 Hate To Wait [The Great Pause]Crocodyle - 03 - Passenger Seat [Sharing a Twin Bed - EP]Brad Marino - 03 Looking for Trouble [Even The Score] (@Rum Bar Records)David Woodard - 03 Orbits [Butterfly Effect]Owen Denvir - Rewind [Sticks, Stones & Bones]Pale Lips - 09 Hiding From The Moon [After Dark]THE BABLERS - 15 Love Is Everything! (Speedy's Sixties Mix) [Psychadilly Circus] (Big Stir Records)

Rockin' The KOR Show #224!  On the way to 26,000 downloads of the show!  THANK YOU for all YOU do to help get these deserving artists heard!  Great music IS STILL being created, and I bring it to you here.  The way RADIO is SUPPOSED to sound!  Give A Listen!  Like, Download, Comment, Share, Repeat.  Lame-stream radio... Variety...I do not think they TRULY know the meaning of the word!  That's why I do what I do here... Rockin' The KOR!!!!  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast bringing Power Pop, Rock, Soul, Rhythm & Blues to anyone and everyone who wants to expand their rock and roll radio knowledge!  Shows NOW on Podchaser, Deezer, Amazon Music, Audible, Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, PlayerFM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, Pocket Cast, Apple iTunes Podcasts!!  Please!  Follow me on Twitter JimPrell@TMusicAuthority  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast! https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/   The Podcast can also be heard here - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   *Radio Candy Radio Mon, Wed, Fri 7 PM ET, 4PM PT.  *Rocking The KOR!  www.koradio.rocks 7PM UK, 2PM ET, 11AM PT Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday! *Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!!  Research and reach out to the bands let them know you heard me playing their songs! Rockin' The KOR Show #224!!  SUPER 8 Music - Music-Authority-ThemeSkidders - Mary Annie's Song [Skidders Friends]The Forty Nineteens - 08 I'm Always Questioning Days [New Roaring Twenties] (Big Stir Records)Allan Kaplon - One Big Parade [Notes On A Napkin]@Richard Turgeon - 08 Live Forever [10 Covers - Volume II]@Results Of Adults - 8. Kittens Touch The Sky [Interstellar Peach Delight]Nolan Voide - The Music Authority JingleTommy Ray! - 07_Feel The Pain [Handful Of Hits] (koolkatmusik.com)Duncan Reid and the Big Heads - 14 God Save Me Now [Bombs Away]Blueanimal - 07 Because of You [On My Mind]No Museums - 05 Bungalows [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Ryan Allen - 04 Can You Take My Thoughts Away [Digital Hiss]@SoulBird - The Music Authority JingleThe Chickenbackers - 03_The Servant [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)John Larson and the Silver Fields - 06 Hate To Wait [The Great Pause]Crocodyle - 03 - Passenger Seat [Sharing a Twin Bed - EP]Brad Marino - 03 Looking for Trouble [Even The Score] (Rum Bar Records)David Woodard - 03 Orbits [Butterfly Effect]Owen Denvir - Rewind [Sticks, Stones & Bones]Pale Lips - 09 Hiding From The Moon [After Dark]THE BABLERS- 15 Love Is Everything! (Speedy's Sixties Mix) [Psychadilly Circus] (Big Stir Records)

Marjorie Taylor Green's Twitter account is suspended, permanently. Matt Gaetz trail is heating up; his ex ex girlfriend spoke to FEDS. NFL Playoffs 

“Treat You Right”!  Come Monday!  The Worldwide Debut…New single release from The Syracuse Penetrators!  The Monday “Singles Release Show”…Ass WILL be kicked, names not taken.  You need to be there for his one! Oh, the humanity!  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat daily on Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes! AND MORNINGS IN CANADA!  https://s1.citrus3.com:2000/public/HCRRadio   Hamilton Co-Op Radio! Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority! Are you listening? How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...Listen LIVE here - https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/ Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast!  Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT, Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks  Also, Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  August 19, 2021, Thursday, first of three…@Orbis Max - TMA SHOW OPEN THEMEKilt the Messenger - Miserable Lives [Hero Punk]The Kennedys - The Girl With The Blonde EyeRich Williams - Black Seal Rum [Ordinary Person]Teenage Waitress Featuring @Blue Canary - You Ain't Got It BadPop Co-Op - 07 To The Sea [Factory Settings] (Futureman Records)Kimberley Rew And Lee Cave-Berry - Kingdom Of Love [Purple Kittens]@Shoes - I Don't Miss YouDavid Bowie & Earl Slick - Isn't It Evening@The Nervous Eaters - Vampire [Record 10]@Crystal Canyon - Turn BlueAthensville - November's Call [Undressing Minds For Show]@Cheri Dahl - Writing YouClub Wow - 07. Sally's Not Home [A Retrospective 1982-1985] (Zero Hour Records)Joe Caravella Jr. - TMA DropThe Reign (Feat. Joe Caravella) - Imaginary End [Storm]Dave Molter - Be the SunshineLolas- The Laurie SongThe Chickenbackers - 10_Why Do You Do It [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)

An odd-looking sky here in Palm Bay this morning.  I know there is a tropical depression headed this way, but, seriously, sky, make a choice!  Dark, rainy looking thunderhead clouds mixed with brilliant blue sky, mixed with white fluffy cumulus clouds, and also the high elevation wispy clouds whose name I cannot recall.  It is casting a very strange hue across my yard…an amber, reddish, yellow golden hue, almost unnerving in its shimmer.  What will the weekend bring?  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat daily on Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes! AND NOW ON MORNINGS IN CANADA!  https://s1.citrus3.com:2000/public/HCRRadio Hamilton Co-Op Radio! Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority! Are you listening? How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...Listen LIVE here - https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/ Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast!  Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT, Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks  Also, Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  August 12, 2021, Thursday, one of three…@Orbis Max - TMA SHOW OPEN THEMEMonday's Mona Lisa - StartDaisy House - Last Wave HomeIrv Lyons Jr. With Kirsten - 01 Private InvitationStephen Flint - Poor Wretch Am I [Saccharine Holiday]Chris Church - 09 Down [Game Dirt] (Big Stir Records)@Mud Fox Tribe – Stormy@Kelt - 31- Wake Myself Up [It's Always Summer At Popboomerang] (Popboomerang Records)Kevin Mathews - 08 Magic [Present Sense]Mink Deville - This Must Be the Night [The Mink DeVille Collection]Tiger Bomb - 02 Super Chick [Uproar] (Dionysus Records)Bang 74 - Crazy TrainStealing Heather - Breathe Out [You're Mistake]@Dawn Rix - Home With HimThe KnacK - Heartbeat [Get The Knack]Red Skylark - 10 - Tear Me [Collection 1] (koolkatmusik.com)Andrew Reed – MemoryThe Psychedelic Furs - Pretty In PinkThe Chickenbackers - 11_Zoot Suit [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)

Wednesday will be 100% Random Play Selections!  Algorithms do so damn well running things on the interweb, I guess running my show should be a spectacular ease!  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat daily on Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes! AND NOW ON MORNINGS IN CANADA!  https://s1.citrus3.com:2000/public/HCRRadio  Hamilton Co-Op Radio! Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority! Are you listening? How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...Listen LIVE here - https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/ Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast!  Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT, Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks  Also, Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  June 8, 2021, Tuesday, the third…John Howard - CD1_17_Loving You [Collected] (koolkatmusik.com)Owen Denvir - Stones From Paris [Sticks, Stones & Bones]The Bablers - 06 Unidentified [Psychadilly Circus] (Big Stir Records)The Nuclears - 06 Bow To The Queen [Sea Side] (Rum Bar Records)More Kicks - 05 I'm On The Brink [More Kicks (Beluga Records)David Woodard - 07 Applebees REMIX [Butterfly Effect]Brad Marino - 01 Even The Score [Even The Score] (Rum Bar Records)@Crocodyle - 04 - Party Jam [Sharing a Twin Bed - EP]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 03 Blue Mind [The Great Pause]Marshall Holland Music - A Hand Holds A Bird [Paper Airplane]The Chickenbackers - 12_Dancin' On The Roof [Yeh, Right Yeah! (koolkatmusik.com)Results of Adults - 3. giant heads [Interstellar Peach Delight]TOMMY RAY! - 11_I Didn't Know It [Handful Of Hits] (koolkatmusik.com)Ryan Allen - 02 Storm in Mind [Digital Hiss]The Armoires - 10 Pushing Forty  [Big Stir Singles - The Fifth Wave] (Big Stir Records)No Museums - 07 The Winter Hive [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Duncan Reid and the Big Heads [Live At Akurrat] - 5_ Let's Skip to the Good BitsRichard Turgeon - 10 Malibu [10 Covers - Volume II]Hemmit – Thank You [Straight Outta Nowhere]

So, our pergola and outdoor fireplace WAS NOT started Tuesday.  The company we hired is having problems keeping crews; as the people they hire figure they can make more money by NOT working.  Gonna stay patient and see when they might arrive to do our job.  I still have a good feeling on this!  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat daily on Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes! AND NOW ON MORNINGS IN CANADA!  https://s1.citrus3.com:2000/public/HCRRadio  Hamilton Co-Op Radio! Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority! Are you listening? How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...Listen LIVE here - https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/ Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast!  Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT, Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks  Also, Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  June 2, 2021 Wednesday act two…Pale Lips - 11 Doo-Wop Showaddywaddy [After Dark] (Rum Bar Records)Owen Denvir - The Lie That You Think I Am [Sticks, Stones & Bones]David Woodard - 03 Orbits [Butterfly Effect]Brad Marino - 04 Local Show [Even The Score] (Rum Bar Records)Crocodyle- 01 - I Feel Good [Sharing a Twin Bed - EP]Devious Ones - 10 Eyes Off You [Wassup Rocker Radio Presents- Sick Sounds 1]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 02 Jericho [The Great Pause]The Chickenbackers - 09_I Would Be Happy [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Ryan Allen - 05 What I Want [Digital Hiss]No Museums - 09 This Station Is Here [Moths]Duncan Reid and the Big Heads [Live At Akurrat] - 2_MontevideoSpinning Jennies - Notice Me [Peer Pressure]Blueanimal- 08 Searching [On My Mind]Results of Adults - 6. first band on the moon [Interstellar Peach Delight]TOMMY RAY! - 03_On My Wall [Handful Of Hits] (koolkatmusik.com)Empty City Squares - 06 A Conversation With The Sun [337]Richard Turgeon - Just Like Heaven [10 Covers]Allan Kaplon - Restless Ones [Notes On A Napkin]SoulBird – Thank You [Raven Kings]

Gotta tell ya…a bit worried about our Lily, my show producer cat.  She appears very skinny.  Still FULL of play energy.  She is constantly eating. We had her checked at the vets and they didn't seem worried about her weight loss.  Earlier today, in the first hour of the show I heard her bellow, and I ran to see what was what…she was outside her potty box room being very vocal.  All I could think to do was turn on the light.  With that she entered the room.  Starting to think maybe, she is having some vision issues.  On her last visit she was checked for cancer, NOPE, kidney issues, NOPE…infections, NOPE… parasites, NOPE and again, no comments on her weight loss OR her fur growing back from where she was stress over grooming!   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat daily on Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes! AND NOW ON MORNINGS IN CANADA!  https://s1.citrus3.com:2000/public/HCRRadio   Hamilton Co-Op Radio! Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority! Are you listening? How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...Listen LIVE here - https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/  Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast!  Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT, Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks  Also, Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  May 25, 2021 Tuesday verse two…Caper Clowns - 05 Be There (The Ever-Changing Tone) [Abdicate The Throne]Groovy Uncle - 02 Grown-Ups [Searching For The Grown Ups]@Langan, Frost & Wane - Falcon Ridge [Goldstar Sampler 2021] (Goldstar Recordings)Tom Gallo - 07 Love Life [The Rutles - The TM Collective]John Howard - CD2_15_Snow [Collected] (koolkatmusik.com)Travel Lanes - 04 It's Time  [On]The Nuclears - 05 Mystery Slinger [Sea Side] (Rum Bar Records)The Bablers - 07 Where Were You My Friend [Psychadilly Circus] (Big Stir Records)Pale Lips - 10 Show Me Another Way To Your Heart [After Dark] (Rum Bar Records)Owen Denvir - Like Nobody Can See [Sticks, Stones & Bones]Zoe Schwarz Blue Commotion - If Only I Could Be with You [Chameleon]David Woodard - 05 The Last Word [Butterfly Effect]Brad Marino - 11 To Bleed [Even The Score] (Rum Bar Records)Crocodyle - 03 - Passenger Seat [Sharing a Twin Bed]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 01 Perfect Crime [The Great Pause]Nat Freedberg - 13 Ode To A Ham Sandwich [Record Number Three] (Rum Bar Records)The Chickenbackers - 04_Hipsterboy [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Ryan Allen - 04 Can You Take My Thoughts Away [Digital Hiss]Duncan Reid and the Big Heads [Live At Akurrat] - 10_ Kelly's Gone InsaneTOMMY RAY! - 08_Loser's Anthem [Handful Of Hits] (koolkatmusik.com)No Museums - 10 There Is No Harm [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]

I'm in SERIOUS NEED of two web pages with audio to be built!  Need one for this show and one for my Voice Over Venture, “Jim Prell Voice Over Artist”.  Both would need to upload video, photos and audio.  Can YOU help a brother out or know someone who might?  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat daily on Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes! AND NOW ON MORNINGS IN CANADA!   https://s1.citrus3.com:2000/public/HCRRadio Hamilton Co-Op Radio! Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority! Are you listening? How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...Listen LIVE here - https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/ Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast!  Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT, Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks  Also, Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  May 18, 2021 Tuesday “Album Tracks Aplenty!” middle set…Brian Langan - The Sight I Seek [Goldstar Sampler 2021] (Goldstar Recordings)Pop Co-Op - 15 Joe Public (bonus) [The Rutles - The TM Collective]The Nuclears - 02 Steer You Wrong [Sea Side] (Rum Bar Records)The Bablers - 09 Angry Young Man [Psychadilly Circus] (Big Stir Records)Pale Lips - 12 Cosmic Love [After Dark] (Rum Bar Records)The Overtures - She Shines A Light [Once In A World] (koolkatmusik.com)Owen Denvir - Loud & Clear [Sticks, Stones & Bones]David Woodard- 01 About New York [Butterfly Effect]Brad Marino - 02 Taillights Fade [Even The Score] (Rum Bar Records)Crocodyle- 05 - Rats of the Night [Sharing a Twin Bed - EP]Georgia Randall- 8. Big Oak Tree [Help Wanted]@John Larson and The Silver Fields - 09 Reversible Heart [The Great Pause]The Chickenbackers - 02_By Your Side [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Ryan Allen - 03 Stuck Inside [Digital Hiss]No Museums - 04 I'm Full Up On Centuries [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]@Strand - 07 - Idiots [Can't Trust The Rain] (koolkatmusik.com)Duncan Reid and the Big Heads [Live At Akkurat]- 14_ 77Blueanimal- 06 What Does It All Mean [On My Mind]Tommy Ray! - 04_One Step Forward [Handful Of Hits] (koolkatmusik.com)Results of Adults - 5. Don't Bring Me Down [Interstellar Peach Delight]

Lily, my show producer cat, received a clean bill of health from her doctor this morning.  A little lighter, a bit leaner, fur growing back, no kidney stones, no uti, no cancer.  Bloody snotters are seasonal allergies.  Nails cut back for another 3 weeks!  She's asleep to my immediate left after her day of being poked and prodded at the vet's office.  We truly do not know how old she is, but we are sure grateful for the time we have had and will have with her! She is Miss Love & Personality!  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat daily on Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes! AND NOW ON MORNINGS IN CANADA!  https://s1.citrus3.com:2000/public/HCRRadio  Hamilton Co-Op Radio! Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority! Are you listening? How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...Listen LIVE here - https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/  Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast!  Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT, Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks  Also, Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT! May 11, 2021 Tuesday, verse two…The Chickenbackers - 14_I'm Gonna Get You Yet [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Ryan Allen - 01 Fortress [Digital Hiss]No Museums - 02 The Airplanes [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Duncan Reid and the Big Heads - 13_ Just the Way it is [Live At Akurrat]Blueanimal - 02 Only A Man [On My Mind]Tommy Ray! - 02_No No No No [Handful Of Hits] (koolkatmusik.com)Quincy - 05 - Words Are Words [35 Years On] (koolkatmusik.com)Results of Adults - 4. Man Meets Machine [Interstellar Peach Delight]Richard Turgeon - 01 I'm a Believer [10 Covers - Volume II]Allan Kaplon - Keep You You [Notes On A Napkin]@The Forty Nineteens - 02 Tell Me [New Roaring Twenties] (Big Stir Records)@Little Billy Childish & Chatham Singers - 08 8. The Double Axe (Blues) [Kings Of The Medway Delta]Skidders - Sammi's Song [Skidders Friends]Scott Samuels - 03 Intuition [Sunshine & Starlight]The Chris Ruben Band - 10 Give It Up [Madness On Repeat]@Massage - I'm a Crusader [MTN-31] (Bobo Integral Records)@Linda Campbell - 07 -My Geography [My Geography]1st Base Runner - 07 What Am I [Seven Years Of Silence]RoofTop Screamers - 10.- After the Fire (feat. Stephanie Schneiderman) [Next Level]Sunday State - All Sales Final [Sunday State]

Hey!  Did you know there are NOW tee shirts for The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast?  Summer is nearly here so get caught up in the kewl gear!  Get your tee shirts here!  Small, Medium, Large, XL, XXL, XXXL!  In the US, $ 25.00 Love Donation, outside the US $30.00 Love Donation; Both Include shipping!  Cash, Check, Money Order to Jim Prell 990 Fulton Lane NE, Palm Bay, Florida 32905!  Email me your size to put on HOLD!  Email is jrprell@mindspring.com.  Hoping today's, the day to get a separate account set up for online orders through Square and Paypal…HOPING!  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat daily on Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes! AND NOW ON MORNINGS IN CANADA!  https://s1.citrus3.com:2000/public/HCRRadio  Hamilton Co-Op Radio! Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority! Are you listening? How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...Listen LIVE here - https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/ Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast!  Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT, Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks  Also, Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  May 4, 2021 Tuesday act one…@Orbis Max - TMA SHOW OPEN THEMEKyle Richards - 02 Number One [The Rutles - The TM Collective]Radio Days- 02 - Lose Control [RAVE ON!]@Kimberly Rew And Lee Cave-Berry - Black Ribbon [Purple Kittens]@The Caper Clowns - 13 Alec In A Line [Abdicate The Throne]Groovy Uncle - 04 He Misses You [Searching For The Grown Ups]Sabrina Fallah - Hurt [Radio Songs]The Lees Of Memory - Stay Free [Goldstar Sampler 2021] (Goldstar Recordings)John Howard - CD2_02_Maybe Someday In Miami [Collected] (koolkatmusik.com)The Nuclears - 04 Small Talk [Sea Side] (Rum Bar Records)The Bablers - 14 Singing With The Bluebird [Psychadilly Circus (Big Stir Records)Pale Lips - 04 You're A Doll [After Dark] (@Rum Bar Records)No Parking For Caravans - Before I Go To Sleep [Where the Fire Escape Touches the Ground - Remixed]Owen Denvir - My World [Sticks, Stones & Bones]David Woodard - 06 Butterfly Effect [Butterfly Effect]Brad Marino - 06 Tripwire [Even The Score] (@Rum Bar Records)Crocodyle - 04 - Party Jam [Sharing a Twin Bed - EP]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 07 Told Ya [The Great Pause]Kathleen Dooley - 06_Maybe [Lost In My Skyfront]The Chickenbackers - 07_I Can't Make It [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Ryan Allen - 02 Storm in Mind [Digital Hiss]No Museums - 01 Does It Still Attack [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Duncan Reid and the Big Heads - 9_ Bombs Away [Live At Akkurat]Blueanimal- 03 Anyone But Me [On My Mind]

FRIDAY SHOW!  7-10AM ET, 4-7AM PT!  The week finishes off with featured artists @The Real Impossibles, A Permanent Shadow, and Battered Suitcases!    We'll end Friday's show with a quick listen in with NEXT WEEK'S spotlight artists Kathleen Dooley, Sabrina Fallah, and No Parking For Caravans!  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat daily on Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes! AND NOW ON MORNINGS IN CANADA!  https://s1.citrus3.com:2000/public/HCRRadio Hamilton Co-Op Radio! Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority! Are you listening? How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...Listen LIVE here - https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/ Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast!  Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT, Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks  Also, Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  April 29, 2021 Thursday, three of three…Strobobean - Walking AloneThe Peawees - 09 As Long As You Can Sleep [Moving Target] (Rum Bar Records)JebbsMusic - 04 Running Wild [Life By The Dollar - EP]Lannie Flowers - D01  Best I Can [Twelve String High Vol 3] (You Are the Cosmos)@Jeremy - Flying Away [Living The Dream] (Jam Records)Battered Suitcases - 07 - Pinball [Wild Dogs] (Rock Hand Records)@Son Of Skooshny - 07 Mid-Century Modern [Matchless Gifts]Monsterpop - I Can Hear The Grass GrowThe Physicals - Be Like MeThrift Store Halo - 91 - I'm Not Through [Rocking Road] (@Ice Cream Man Power Pop And More)@The Real Impossibles - All Over this World [It's About Time] (Rum Bar Records) (Zero Hour Records)Chris Church - 01 Amplified [Your Own Chosen Speed]Los Pepes - 08 InconsolableThe Cynz – Walk My WayA Permanent Shadow - 04 Let Me In [Radical Change, Songs Of Loss]@The Lemon Clocks - The World Is Round [Songs From Another Time] (Jam Records)The Chickenbackers - 11_Zoot Suit [Yeh, Right Yeah! (koolkatmusik.com)]@The Cherry Twister - She's Gone [At Home With Cherry Twister]Brandon Schott- 03- Thank You For Being A Friend [Drink A Toast To Innocence – A Toast To Lite Rock] (Curry Cuts)

“Album Tracks Aplenty!  Three hours of new songs, new sounds from the albums that made their way to my desk over the last few weeks.  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat daily on Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes! AND NOW ON MORNINGS IN CANADA!  https://s1.citrus3.com:2000/public/HCRRadio Hamilton Co-Op Radio! Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority! Are you listening? How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...Listen LIVE here - https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/ Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast!  Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT, Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks  Also, Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  April 27, 2021 Tuesday, Chapter one…@Orbis Max - TMA SHOW OPEN THEMEThe Nuclears - 07 I Just Wanna Have Nothing To Do [Sea Side] (Rum Bar Records)The Bablers - 03 Queen Of Yesterday [Psychadilly Circus] (Big Stir Records)Pale Lips - 08 Johnny [After Dark] (Rum Bar Records)Owen Denvir- The Lighthouse [Sticks, Stones & Bones]A Permanent Shadow- 04 Let Me In [Radical Change, Songs Of Loss]David Woodard - 02 Surprised by Sunshine [Butterfly Effect]Brad Marino - 09 Fell in Love Again [Even The Score] (Rum Bar Records)Crocodyle - 03 - Passenger Seat [Sharing a Twin Bed - EP]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 04 I Don't Want To Hear Their Names Anymore [The Great Pause]The Chickenbackers- 05_Can't Get Your Lovin' [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Battered Suitcases - 11 - The Nature of Mankind [Wild Dogs] (Rock Hand Records)Ryan Allen - 05 What I Want [Digital Hiss]@No Museums - 05 Bungalows [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Duncan Reid and the Big Heads [Live At Akkurat] - 1_ Can't StopBlueanimal- 04 This Side of Me [On My Mind]Results of Adults - 11. Runaway [Interstellar Peach Delight]@The Real Impossibles - 09 With A Girl [If it ain't Rum Bar Records it ain't worth a shot vol2] (Rum Bar Records)Tommy Ray! - 09_If You Need Anything [Handful Of Hits] (koolkatmusik.com)Richard Turgeon - 06 Just Like Heaven [10 Covers - Volume II]Allan Kaplon - Every Single Day [Notes On A Napkin]Ken Sharp- 06 Lorelei [Miniatures]The Forty Nineteens - 03 Late Night Radio (feat. @Tony Valentino) [New Roaring Twenties] (Big Stir Records)

Enjoy your Tuesday!  Why?  Because you have been allowed that privilege once again!  Some were not as lucky as us.  The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast...listen, like, comment, download, share, repeat daily on Listen Notes, Google Podcast Manager, Mixcloud, Player FM, Stitcher, Tune In, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, Radio Public, and Pocket Cast, and APPLE iTunes! AND NOW ON MORNINGS IN CANADA!  https://s1.citrus3.com:2000/public/HCRRadio   Hamilton Co-Op Radio!  Follow the show on TWITTER JimPrell@TMusicAuthority! Are you listening? How does and can one listen in? Let me list the ways...Listen LIVE here - https://fastcast4u.com/player/jamprell/ Podcast - https://themusicauthority.transistor.fm/   The Music Authority LIVE STREAM Show & Podcast!  Radio Candy Radio Monday Wednesday, & Friday 7PM ET, 4PM PT, Rockin' The KOR Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 7PM UK time, 2PM ET, 11AM PT  www.koradio.rocks  Also, Pop Radio UK Friday, Saturday, & Sunday 6PM UK, 1PM ET, 10AM PT!  April 20, 2021 Tuesday, “Album Tracks Aplenty Show!” Take One…@Orbis Max - TMA SHOW OPEN THEMECrocodyle - 01 - I Feel Good [Sharing a Twin Bed - EP]John Larson and the Silver Fields - 05 Painting In The Rain [The Great Pause]The Chickenbackers - 08_C'mon C'mon [Yeh, Right Yeah!] (koolkatmusik.com)Ryan Allen - 04 Can You Take My Thoughts Away [Digital Hiss]@No Museums - 09 The Long Effects [There's Always An End (And Always Another)]Duncan Reid and the Big Heads Live - 11_ C'Mon JosephineBaby Scream - Secret Agent Man (Johnny Rivers) [Just Covers]Blueanimal - 09 Better Than This [On My Mind]Results of Adults - 9. smile [Interstellar Peach Delight]Tommy Ray! - 01_In Love Again [Handful Of Hits] (koolkatmusik.com)@The Greek Theatre - 08 - The Caboose [When Seasons Change] (koolkatmusik.com)Richard Turgeon - 02 I'll Feel a Whole Lot Better [10 Covers - Volume II]Allan Kaplon - Wonder Where The Angels Are [Notes On A Napkin]The Forty Nineteens- 10 You're The Kind Of Girl [New Roaring Twenties] (Big Stir Records)The Chris Ruben Band- 07 Tell Me Why [Madness On Repeat]Spanking Charlene - 09 Whiplash [Find Me Out] (Rum Bar Records)Skidders - Wedding Guitars [Skidders Friends]Scott Samuels - 01 Don't Let Go [Sunshine & Starlight]RoofTop Screamers - 8.- Couldn't Ask For More (feat. Mike Collins) [Next Level]@Massage - Sticks & Stones [MTN-31] (Bobo Integral Records)

This week we sit down with Neil Shirley to discuss the new ENVE custom road bike. Yes, that is not a typo, we are talking about a road bike. :). ENVE Custom Road Website Join The Ridership Support the podcast Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos): Enve Custom Road Interview Craig Dalton: [00:00:00] [00:00:00]Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the show, we have Neil Shirley from envy on to talk about the ENVE custom road. You heard me correct custom road. [00:00:17]Not to worry. We're not renaming the show, the road ride, but I thought this project was so interesting. And how they're manufacturing in the United States. That was worth highlighting. [00:00:27]In last week's in the dirt episode, we had so many questions about how envy was pulling off this custom road. . That I thought it was worth talking to the team at ENVE and who better? Than to talk to our old friend, Neil, Shirley.  [00:00:39]The gravel ride podcast is supported by a limited number of sponsors as well as listeners. Like you. If you're interested in supporting the show please visit buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride [00:00:52]And now let's jump right into my conversation. Neil Welcome to the show [00:00:57]Neil Shirley: [00:00:57] Thanks for having me on Craig I'm excited to talk bikes [00:01:01] Craig Dalton: [00:01:01] You're back again You're in a  rare breed of second time guests on the gravel ride podcast [00:01:07] Neil Shirley: [00:01:07] Really Wow It's been a how long has it been  two and a half three years since I was on the show last time [00:01:12] Craig Dalton: [00:01:12] Yeah cause I think it was just before you moved out to Utah joined the team at ENVE [00:01:18] Neil Shirley: [00:01:18] Yeah I'm a Yeah happy to be back thanks for letting that making it happen [00:01:22]Craig Dalton: [00:01:22] When you work for a company like envy and you drop a project like envy custom road Despite being called the gravel ride [00:01:30] podcast I was instantly drawn To having this conversation with you [00:01:34]Neil Shirley: [00:01:34] It's an exciting exciting bike but the whole project itself is really cool because as I'm sure You're thinking like a couple little tweaks to some of the molds and all of a sudden it's a gravel bike too Right [00:01:48] Craig Dalton: [00:01:48] Yeah absolutely Why don't we start off Neil I'm going to refer everybody to our earlier conversation to learn a little bit about your background but for the listener Neil's a long time road mountain gravel athlete And it's really put in a lot of effort into the gravel community As has envy it's been a company that has been just thinking a lot about gravel and putting very thoughtful products in products that are used by a lot of custom builders Your handlebars are super well popular in the gravel cycling community But why don't you talk a little bit about envy as a company And where it got its start And then we'll get into this new project [00:02:27] Neil Shirley: [00:02:27] Yeah so envy we're located in Ogden Utah So just about 40 minutes North of salt Lake and we have a large military base just just South of a vog Din And so the area for a small area it has a lot of kind of has a long history of composites and some good engineers come from the area Envy was founded in Ogden 15 years ago And It's founded by a group of four people that really wanted they had the carbon expertise Had an idea around [00:03:00] manufacturing in the U S and We're all avid cyclists and decided there's a room there's room in the market in a need for some of the products that they really wanted to ride and experience themselves that just really didn't exist or at least not at the level because they wanted them out that's where envy started with mountain rims and then moved into road rims and just as the company progressed was able to dial in aerodynamics and the road side of the business really continued to take off three years ago We moved into a new facility still here in Ogden but really what makes envy special It isn't inherently that us manufacturing is superior to manufacturing anywhere else It's I think really what makes envy special is the fact that everything all of our rims are engineering this new bike that will jump into everything is done in house So we have [00:04:01]Design engineering Prototyping manufacturing shipping marketing everything under one roof and sit the collaboration between the different teams that actually get a product to market is all done Cohesively and efficiently there isn't shipping stuff back and forth Asia to iterate on and test it It's all done [00:04:25]In the same building here in Austin And so that's I think that's really what makes us [00:04:30] special as a brand [00:04:31] Craig Dalton: [00:04:31] is a really special thing to highlight I think oftentimes the layman doesn't realize how long it takes to develop an iterate on products Having had a little experience as a manufacturer myself knowing that you can go to the factory floor Make a tweak test it very quickly It's just so much more efficient than shipping a product back to Asia with notes scribbled on it and having a Skype conversation then getting a factory overseas to ship it back to you Each one of these cycles takes two or three months to sort itself out So you can imagine that just how long it takes to get a product to market [00:05:09] Neil Shirley: [00:05:09] Yeah you're right It's the time and the expense honestly to have shipping back and forth oftentimes having an engineer that's having to spend A considerable amount of time in Asia and coming back and forth And so just to be able to do it To do it right here And honestly lunch ride and I mean we have so many of the people within envy We have 200 employees here at envy and quite a few of us are avid cyclist some of the engineers are elite level cyclist on the line the daily run lunch ride typically some prototype or sample product is getting tested and A day or two later maybe that rim that someone's riding is going to be iterated on a new prototype is made and a day or two later we're out test riding it on the lunch right Again So that's [00:06:00] a spring through fall is what you can expect [00:06:03] Craig Dalton: [00:06:03] Super interesting as you the components gain steam presumably at some point you moved into manufacturing tube sets for other builders Can you talk about that process and what that's been like [00:06:17] Neil Shirley: [00:06:17] Yeah the tube sets so early on with envy we really And still what we're doing now We looked at the market and w we could carve out a spot for ourselves And not that really came at the time was serving the custom handmade builders that were predominantly Using steel or titanium We We were able to roll tubes and do carbon tubes them And we still do it's a very that part of the business shrunk as more bikes are molded now molded carbon now but we've think we still work with Calfee doing some of their tubes we worked with Parley in the past independent fabrication So of the more notable handmade builders we've been able to service them and still to this day I mean a lot of those builders are using the forks Forks is a large part of our business Yeah the builders have been really They've been a huge part of our success [00:07:18] Craig Dalton: [00:07:18] I have to say that That [00:07:19] Neil Shirley: [00:07:19] where we're at today [00:07:20] Craig Dalton: [00:07:20] the envy builder Roundup is one of my favorite events of the year [00:07:25] Neil Shirley: [00:07:25] Yeah [00:07:26] Craig Dalton: [00:07:26] so [00:07:27] great Just looking at all those bikes there They all [00:07:30] everybody comes out It's like the handmade bike show [00:07:33] Neil Shirley: [00:07:33] Yeah I'm excited unfortunately The North American handmade by Cho is not happening this year And so this will be year three for us for the builder Roundup it's June 25th This year and [00:07:48]Fingers crossed we'll be able to last year it was just a virtual show which was great It challenged us in new ways and it allowed us to really take that content and serve it to a bigger audience not just doing the open house this year we'll do the same but we'll also have an open house so hopefully we can have Have people out here we'll have a number of the builders here inside envy visiting us And of course the bikes on display So yeah it's It's really cool to see every each of these builders their own idea of what their ideal bike is and the custom builders they're ahead of the curve in what trends are because can make a bike so quickly If you have to if you're waiting on Cannondale or specialized or some of these brands like they're doing great stuff but there there are two years behind what the custom builders are doing so you can look and see what going on with these builders and see what How people are riding bikes how much tire clearance they want I mean there was a lot of were a number of gravel bikes at the show last year with 700 by 50 tires on it It's Whoa this is a trend I mean Mo bigger and bigger tires Anyway it's really cool see what each builder has [00:09:00] in mind and how their bikes are being used [00:09:02] Craig Dalton: [00:09:02] I remember seeing that last year And I think it coincided with the introduction of your adventure fork If I'm not mistaken but just seeing that trend which is aligned with where I'm going personally I think bigger and bigger tires just fits where I want to go and what I want to do on the gravel bike Which is interesting And I think a lot of the conversation on the podcast this year Has been around Bike packing and adventure rides As the events got taken off the calendar More and more riders were looking to just create their own adventures [00:09:34]Neil Shirley: [00:09:34] Yeah I mean that's Everyone was some of the rides I saw on Strava People I was following were doing it It was like almost without the racing They had were no limits or boundaries 200 plus mile rides on a Saturday and multi-day bike packing rides So people got really creative I was I was jealous Some of the rides that people were doing because I mean that's really That's the spirit of want to say just gravel because there's you can do it on the road too but I think truly gravel brings that out more and Allows people just to have More of that adventure that they're looking for And that usually leads to just some over the top rides [00:10:22] Craig Dalton: [00:10:22] Yeah And as I've been talking about a lot lately just the idea for me about calm combining road and off-road [00:10:30] riding In creating these loops that are just atypical from what I would normally do is really inspiring me for 2021 to frankly set my bike up a little differently and definitely think about where I'm going to go differently [00:10:45] Neil Shirley: [00:10:45] Yeah [00:10:47] Yeah I agree I [00:10:48] Craig Dalton: [00:10:48] Yeah I've personally been on a little bit of a road kick which I'd never thought I'd say I think I've just it's I had a friend come into town who had only had a road bike and I just I remit started to remember all the things I used to love about road riding So when this new project got publicized the NV custom road bike it was like it couldn't have been more perfect timing Let's sit down and talk about it So let's it sounds like the bike was a long time coming So do you want to talk about The history behind the bike and then we'll get into some of the details [00:11:21] Neil Shirley: [00:11:21] Sure So the bike [00:11:23] The [00:11:23] bike was much the original product that envy it was when envy was found that it was actually called the edge And then after about a year and a half two years The name was changed to envy but it was one of the very original products and it kept kidding Getting pushed back because there was a greater the management team felt that there was Greater potential with expanding the wheel line and then components from there And frame just get caught in a got kicked down the road a bit and then It was two and a half years ago that the project started in earnest [00:12:00] and it was That was when the engineers actually started really looking at what is the spike and a B In 2016 envy released the 4.5 AR wheels which is one of our still to this day One of our best-selling wheel set The problem with that wheel set is that at the time in 2016 there were very few frames that wheel work in so it's a 25 millimeter internal which and it's made for 28 plus millimeter tire So it was the wheel design for Dimension data the world tour team that we're working with to race at Perry Ruby so they could still have aerodynamics that they would want on a race wheel set with a high volume tire and they're just very few frames that had the clearance to a few race frames performance bikes [00:12:54] were that [00:12:55] would allow that size wheel entire That's when the engineers were like okay what would what would this modern road bike look like so that kind of was the catalyst of okay let's put together some ideas So then finally two and a half years ago They actually started drawing it out and then it's been about a year and a half that we've been riding prototype frames The first I got on the version one prototype The last would have been a year ago in January and then That was looking [00:13:30] at okay what are some of the geometries and then from there what does [00:13:33]What is the laminate The layup look like how steep is it Stiff enough as a two-step just understanding the ride quality and then I've for about the last three and a half four months I've been on the final version which is the bike that we just launched last week It seems To us around here It's been a really fast project and stuff happening quickly but now stepping back and thinking like wow two and a half years that's a really long time [00:13:55]Craig Dalton: [00:13:55] So the bike that was launched is available One of the couple of points I wanted to clarify because I was a little bit confused when I first read it it's available with two different geometries of the race and the all road And then from there there's additional amounts of customization that are available on a rider by rider basis [00:14:15]Neil Shirley: [00:14:15] It is it [00:14:16] is custom geometry When What that means though What we're customizing is the fit Basically the stack and the reach is what we're allowing customers to customize And so want to make sure that each rider gets exactly where they need to be and we're not fitting them on the bike with a stock Top two blanks [00:14:43] A stock [00:14:44] head to blanks and then just using STEM length to try and dial them in All of those are customizable not allowing people to do which is why we have a race in an all road We have [00:15:00] geometry To determine basically the ride that we want each of these bikes to deliver so we're not allowing customers to say make a gravel bike out of our road bike we're not allowing them to adjust chainstay length Those Those numbers We are We have determined what those are with our fit calculator then when a customer reserves the bike And they walked through geometry with our customer service rep that is dedicated to the bike we look at currently riding if they've had a bike fit A number of different things to determine the best fit for them And so what we can do If someone is writing say a specialized tarmac SL [00:15:52] in [00:15:53] 56 centimeter with a one 20 STEM and they really love they fit on it really well but they have say 25 millimeters of spacers under that STEM we can match them exactly to that fit but w what we can do  head to blank that brings it so that they don't have to have any spacers or they can have five millimeters of spacer So you get really that clean pro look [00:16:20]That [00:16:20] perfect fit that you're looking for [00:16:22] Craig Dalton: [00:16:22] Right Yeah [00:16:23] Neil Shirley: [00:16:23] does that make [00:16:23] sense [00:16:24] Craig Dalton: [00:16:24] and it totally translates into the visuals I've seen of the bike There's no [00:16:30] spacers Underneath the STEM on any of those bikes they look super clean And I imagine in talking to some custom frame builders there's always a bit of back and forth That the frame builder will say Hey that's your we can do that but you're going to make a sloppy bike and all you guys have done and said This is the way this part is but there's plenty of ways in which we can really customize it to you Your unique fit needs [00:16:55] Neil Shirley: [00:16:55] Yeah [00:16:55] exactly I mean I think if you look if you think about it it's basically the best way to describe what's possible is One millimeter size increments between say a 47 to 63 Send me your bikes So 47 48 49 50 then with within those sizes we can [00:17:15] We [00:17:15] can go lower with the head tube We can go higher with the head tube Obviously STEM length within five millimeter increments we can change the stim link so what we do When we come up with the geometry we have comes up We have a thing called the bet fit calculator that Kevin Nelson Arlie lead bike engineer developed [00:17:36] And [00:17:37] When we it calculates and spits out Geometries or the best fit So three or four best fit recommendations for the person So that could be top tube Of X centimeters with a with a STEM length of one 10 or could go slightly [00:18:00] shorter top tube and a STEM length of one 15 And then we walk the customer through okay this is We [00:18:06] allow them to say okay this is what I'd like this is the style I like ultimately though We're finding a few ways to get the the customer in the exact spot They need to be [00:18:17] Craig Dalton: [00:18:17] That makes sense And speaking of integrations you've got an integrated bar STEM as well as at a seat mask situation going can you talk about the decisions to go that down those routes [00:18:28] Neil Shirley: [00:18:28] Yeah when [00:18:29] we looked at the bike and what we could deliver That Being able to do it in house here And the fact that it was custom made for each customer there [00:18:40] was there was no reason to do this integration and some of the biggest complaints and complaints I personally have had with a one-piece bar STEM Is that if you're buying a stock [00:18:53] bike oftentimes like that bar STEM is probably not going to fit you Because 56 centimeter Frame that you're buying is probably going to with between a one 10 or a one 20 STEM So unless the bike brand is allowing you to really trade out the bar STEM Stock to something that is it was gonna fit you it's a huge hassle we're taking that factor out We're making we're ensuring that this bike is designed your fit needs And What you achieve without one piece bar STEM one it looks Looks so good Two Eric it's more arrow [00:19:30] Three I personally think it just adds A higher performance field like in the drops you're out of the saddle Like it stiff it feels incredibly fast then one of the one of the last things is and it's not necessarily achieved one-piece bar STEM but it's our internal it's our internal wire and hose routing you don't see any wires or hoses It's a special Integrated front end that we developed we we worked with Chris to develop the headset for it So all the All the wires and hoses go through in through the STEM through a hole in the back of the handlebar And then the hoses and wires are routed special headset and down into the frame and through the forks So it's incredibly clean we will We will This summer we'll be introducing the same system but in a two-piece design so it's our standard a R S C S a R road handlebar with a N V STEM is dedicated to that the front end system [00:20:34] Craig Dalton: [00:20:34] Okay And going with the seat mass did that allow you some additional ride tuning capabilities [00:20:40] Neil Shirley: [00:20:40] Exactly one It allowed us to reduce take a little bit of weight out of the frame but also yeah you nailed it You can think about if you had a seat post that goes slides into the frame It's a lot harder to tailor And dial in that ride quality Compared to an [00:21:00] integrated seat mast and what we can achieve with that And again since each bike is made each customer the length of the seat mask and having to trim it and all that stuff wasn't a factor [00:21:10] So [00:21:11] there was no reason not to And then the seat mass Topper It's a nice carbon topper That's also made here here in our facility it has 35 millimeters of adjustability There's never going to be an issue where if you change shoes or pedals and your saddle height changes by a centimeter and a half you're going to have plenty of adjustability So that's not going to be an issue only issue could be is [00:21:36] you [00:21:37] happen to sell your bike down the road to someone else and there's a Decent height difference So that would be the only issue [00:21:45] Craig Dalton: [00:21:45] Yeah When I first looked at the bike I always do get a little bit sensitive around seat mass and integrated bar stems for the reasons you've talked about but it is important And you made this point twice to say this is a bike that's being uniquely made for the purchaser And it would almost be a disservice to them to not give them The ultimate bike that fits like a glove [00:22:09] Neil Shirley: [00:22:09] Yeah Yeah And do you know and that's what we set out with this project Like what is the ultimate bike What are the coolest things that we can do because we're making it here and we're making it for each customer And so that's what the custom road represents like the no hold No holds barred coolest thing that we could design [00:22:30] and manufacturer and then I'd say the lastly kind of along the same point topic is integration can be a point of frustration especially for people that are traveling I travel with my bike a lot and so I want something that's easy to pack And we all know that internal routing and integration is a huge pain when having a pack of bikes So that's why we made the decision [00:22:57] To [00:22:57] work with Saigon and we have high end bike bags at $800 retail bike bag That comes with every chassis rolling chassis or complete bike So each one is shipped in this bag And with this bag you don't have to take off [00:23:13] the ham [00:23:14] You don't have to take off the bar STEM combo seat topper all you remove or the wheels it's literally a five minute pack job And in most cases unless you're packing this case full of extra stuff going to come in well below the 50 pound weight limit to fly free on Delta and American airlines So really cool solution get around any hassles of traveling with your bike [00:23:40] Craig Dalton: [00:23:40] That's awesome Early on in the conversation you talked about with your support for builders Providing rolled tubes is that the type of tube set that is integrated into the custom road [00:23:53] Neil Shirley: [00:23:53] No these are all these are all molded Molded tube sets and how this frame is constructed in the [00:24:00] our ability to do sizes with it So it's nine different pieces that create the frame So you have the top tube with [00:24:08] the [00:24:09] Top half of the head tube is one piece down tube with the bottom half of the head tube is another piece And then from there we have a fixture that we created that cuts when we have all the customer's [00:24:25] exact fit there is program where this tube cutter cuts tubes for the bike at the same time And that's also what Sure For the head tube we determined the head tube length and all that gets cut all these then all these pieces we have a frame jig they go into the frame jig the pieces slide together I don't want to say Like tracks not it's not a lug [00:24:52] Craig Dalton: [00:24:52] Okay [00:24:53] Neil Shirley: [00:24:53] But It is like male female fit And then there's a there's an overwrap that that goes on them [00:25:01] Craig Dalton: [00:25:01] Gotcha in the mold is the mold one size And then that cutting technology cuts them down to the custom dimensions of the purchaser [00:25:10] Neil Shirley: [00:25:10] Essentially And we do have multiple molds dependent for between the extremes of the biggest size and the smallest size But yes essentially what you're saying [00:25:19] Craig Dalton: [00:25:19] Fascinating And is that something to your knowledge is that a unique process at envy or have other companies been doing a similar type approach [00:25:26]Neil Shirley: [00:25:26] I believe it is unique for us because we there's plenty that [00:25:30] have the process that not really showing I think what's really special is how we're able to do it while achieving some of the arrow shapes frame Which is as far as I know hasn't really been done yet [00:25:43] Craig Dalton: [00:25:43] Yeah that was one of the big questions when Randall and I were talking in the last episode of in the dirt about it we just weren't quite sure how you were pulling off custom dimensions on the tubes [00:25:54] Neil Shirley: [00:25:54] Yeah so really it's a remarkable process we've already had we've had a couple of media out here seeing it prelaunch we have a couple more that have expressed interest in visiting post-launch so it's It's Yeah I think our engineering team that we have here in house Some really brilliant people And Kevin who was is behind the bike key Even though this is 10 Clinically the first bite for envy as we've been talking about we've worked [00:26:21]With bike [00:26:22] builders a lot in the past and we also worked with And designed and manufactured the front end of their Ex triathlon time trial bike And then Kevin before he came over to envy he worked I mean he worked in G T back in their heyday when you know the lotto bikes and building some of the bikes and going over to Perry Bay with the team So he's got great stories and then some time specialized developing the first rebate Even though it's a new it's a new category for us There's definitely a lot of know-how within the building in And how to put together A road [00:27:00] bike [00:27:00] Craig Dalton: [00:27:00] Yeah exactly And then much like a lot of the other custom offerings out there in the world at the end of the day you get to choose from Looks like a pretty vast selection of paint schemes [00:27:13] Neil Shirley: [00:27:13] Yeah we brought in a painter a year ago we already had a paint shop here where we paint mountain stems that are made here in our disc rear time-travel wheels And so we brought in this painter and for the last year he's been painting we all have custom painted forks and handlebars Now just trying to keep him busy until we had till we had frames to be feeding through there [00:27:36] But he [00:27:36] put together basically his paint shop And so with the help of our design team And they created four different four different paint templates for the frame and then 38 color options and Matt versus gloss as options as well There's mean you can about having a unique bike without even having to spend extra on on extra custom paint or anything which which is an option but anyone that has seen the coverage on our site and some of the different paints that are painted bikes that are coming out like there's man you can do some really cool stuff I was just down in the paint shop this afternoon And seeing like we were doing a bike for Chris King now That's just unbelievable so it's really cool to be able to offer something like that I know aesthetics the paint is not something that [00:28:30] [00:28:30] That [00:28:30] doesn't make you any faster but I it's these bikes as we know like have a relationship with your bike and I don't just look at my bikes as a tool and so to be able to have something a little more individual and show some personality I had a storm trooper My bike is mostly all white but I had a storm trooper logo put on the hammer bar STEM because it just reminded me of that All that stuff is really cool When you're talking about a bike that you're going to have for years and years [00:28:58] Craig Dalton: [00:28:58] Yeah absolutely I mean you're preaching to the choir here I ride a pink bicycle so I know it I know what it means to make your yeah Choose a paint color that makes you happy when you're out there on the roads and trails [00:29:08] Neil Shirley: [00:29:08] Yep [00:29:09] Craig Dalton: [00:29:09] That's awesome Neil So how long would one have to wait at this point to get one of these bikes [00:29:14]Neil Shirley: [00:29:14] So as we as of last Friday we launched As we expected we had a con A considerable number of orders came in So I think we're looking at if someone went on in Went to nv.com today You're probably looking at Fall late fall [00:29:37] Craig Dalton: [00:29:37] Gotcha [00:29:37] Neil Shirley: [00:29:37] for delivery of a bike seems under normal circumstances that would be a really long time [00:29:43] But [00:29:43]In COVID reality right now it might not seem that far off when a lot of the a lot of the big bike brands are not able to deliver until 20 22 in a lot of cases it's it is a long time Some of the first people that were able to get in line No [00:30:00] they're going to have bikes delivered to them next to as soon as April [00:30:03] Craig Dalton: [00:30:03] Nice as you mentioned with COVID It might take you just as long to get a group of these days [00:30:09] Neil Shirley: [00:30:09] No and that's that's a big factor for us as as well there's If people those that are choosing the chassis are rolling chassis only option they're likely to get the bike a lot quicker And source their own Shimano or saran parts elsewhere [00:30:25] Craig Dalton: [00:30:25] Yeah exactly I've talked to a lot of builders who have a lot of frustration in the current state of affairs because they just can't move full bikes out the door which is quite a shame [00:30:34]Neil Shirley: [00:30:34] It isn't and it's I really feel for a lot of the a lot of the brands out there because the business we're in a really interesting situation where there is Is much business the taking it's really up to you how well you do and many of them have their hands tied right now because they literally their order books are so full they don't have parts or they don't have frame sets from their vendors or any of that we in the bike industry we have our ups and downs So when when the business is there you want to be able to capitalize it on it and not to be able to do that is really really sad [00:31:13] Craig Dalton: [00:31:13] Yeah no doubt about that Good news is I think we are looking forward We're trending towards people getting vaccinated We're trending towards some of these events happening hopefully by the time like a BWR San Diego runs around rolls around We'll start to see some of these envy custom [00:31:30] road with the all road geometry racing those types of events [00:31:34] Neil Shirley: [00:31:34] know I'll be out there with mine We're going to have They'll there'll be a handful of them out there I sure hope I'll Yeah I can't wait to go test mine in the some of the single track the lemon twist in Bergen Some of those fun sections [00:31:49] Craig Dalton: [00:31:49] Yeah that's awesome As we were talking about offline I think for me the gravel world has this spectrum from Road plus which is this 35 millimeter kind of size tire all the way on the other extreme to the bike packing side So it's thrilling to see brands continue to push the limits on both sides because I think depending on where you live in the country Yeah either or is going to make sense for you depending on your local terrain [00:32:14] Neil Shirley: [00:32:14] Yeah [00:32:14]That's totally true I Wasatch mountains here just out our back door here in Utah so Rocky and rugged like I would never Even a 700 by 40 is you're under biking most of the time like at six 50 B and 47 to 50 Mill tires way to go But know like we were talking about in Lincoln Nebraska when I did gravel worlds out there I raced a 32 C tire And so it really Jew is geographically dependent on terrain is definitely for BWR San Diego I'll happily run a 32 C and in my custom road and it's going to be a It's going to be an awesome bike And then my as a gravel guy here and a [00:33:00] number of us hearing Envy that that ride gravel consistently we're [00:33:04] pushing for that next That next version that can fit some big tires in there I think we need to really just understand The demand that's that we have for for the custom road and then understand how we can scale up and be able to Keep up with the demand and then add hopefully add a gravel version as well [00:33:24] Craig Dalton: [00:33:24] That makes a ton of sense I mean envy has been such a great supporter of the gravel community as I said before So I'm sure that Mike will come which is why it was important to have this conversation today [00:33:34] Neil Shirley: [00:33:34] Yeah [00:33:35] Craig Dalton: [00:33:35] Cool Neil thank you so much for making time today I really appreciate it [00:33:39] Neil Shirley: [00:33:39] Yeah Thank you Craig And so it's fun to talk about It's it's something that we've been living the last two and a half years, so to be able to launch the bike and start telling people about it has been so exciting. [00:33:51] [00:33:51]Craig Dalton: [00:33:51] That's it for this week's episode of the gravel ride podcast. Big, thanks to Neil for coming on and talking about the NV custom road project. It's really exciting to see both sides of the sport. Continue to innovate. I tell you, it looks like one fast machine. I'll put a link in the show notes to where you can find out more information about the NV custom road bike. [00:34:13]Definitely check out some of the custom paint jobs that neil was mentioning truly beautiful bikes. [00:34:18] If you've made it this far on the show, I hope that you're already a subscriber, but if not, make sure to hit that subscribe button. We put out episodes just about every week and we've got about a [00:34:30] hundred in the back catalog for you to peruse. [00:34:32]Until next time here's the finding some dirt onto your wheels.  

On this episode of the Healthy, Wealthy and Smart Podcast, I welcome Dr. Gina Kim, PT, DPT to talk about making the move from a physical therapist assistant to a physical therapist. Dr. Gina Kim is the owner of Maitri Physiotherapy, LLC in Central Ohio, the producer and host of The Medical Necessity Podcast, is certified in Integrative Dry Needling, is pursuing certification in MDT, and also uses her 10-year background in Tibetan Buddhism to educate her clients in mindfulness meditation. In this episode, we discuss: How to transition from a PTA to a PT What is a bridge program for PTAs The benefits of being a non-traditional physical therapy student The ups and downs of physical therapy school while juggling work and life commitments.  And much more!  Resources:  Maitri Physiotherapy, LLC Dr. Gina on LinkedIn Dr. Gina on Instagram Dr. Gina on Facebook A big thank you to Net Health for sponsoring this episode! Learn more about the Redoc Patient Portal here.  More about Dr. Gina Kim: Dr. Gina originally wanted to play the trumpet when she grew up. Performance anxiety in high school changed her mind. But what was more worrying was the low back pain that began around that time. She endured that pain for years, but X-rays and muscle relaxers didn’t help. She was fortunate to work with a physical therapist.  Being free from back pain was so dramatic that she decided that’s what she wanted to do with her life: Help people change their lives by treating pain, especially back pain, without drugs or surgery. She stated at the bottom as a rehab aide. Next, she earned her license as a Physical Therapist Assistant and worked for years in settings ranging from outpatient orthopedics to acute care to home health. While working as a PTA, she completed her Doctorate through the University of Findlay Weekend College Bridge Program. Dr. Gina is certified in Integrative Dry Needling, is pursuing certification in MDT, and also uses her 10-year background in Tibetan Buddhism to educate her clients in mindfulness meditation. She is also the producer and host of The Medical Necessity Podcast. Read the Full Transcript below: Speaker 1 (00:01): Hello, Gina. And welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy to have you on, Speaker 2 (00:06): Well, I'm happy to be here, Karen. Speaker 1 (00:08): So you've got two podcast hosts here. So now you're on the other side of the mic. Speaker 2 (00:15): Oh goodness. It's great to be. Speaker 1 (00:20): So today we're going to talk about sort of your non-traditional route to becoming a physical therapist. So as, as a lot of people know, or maybe some listeners don't know the physical therapy profession, we're now a doctoring profession. So people are going to school for an undergraduate degree and then usually going right into physical therapy school as their graduate school of choice. But Gina made a definite detour from college through to where she is now as a physical therapist. So I will throw it over to you, Gina, and just kind of tell us your story, because I'm sure it will resonate with a lot of people. Speaker 2 (01:04): Oh my goodness. So my bachelor's is in computer science and I won't say how long ago, but let's say windows 95 was the hot new thing. Everybody was getting a computer science degree. I was even, I was even a company's webmaster for a time. So here's the thing, here's the thing. I have zero patience for technology longstanding low back issues. Okay. And especially sitting at a desk job, you know, we all, you know, PTs, you know, now I, now I know well when I was working one particular job, you know, and couldn't take the back pain anymore. And what do I do? I go to see my, go, to see my family doctor and it's x-rays and muscle relaxers, and guess what? Didn't help shocker shocker. And I can't tell you how many years passed between then. And finally, someone I remember I had hired a personal trainer who was himself, a physical therapist, and he said, Oh, you need to see someone who really specializes more in the low back, you know, cause so sky was kind of more on the equipment sales end of things. Speaker 2 (02:38): So I found I found my PT and he it's it's so trite, you know, saying he did his magic on me. It's like, I know what he did on me now. But I went from unable to touch my toes. You know, being in pain, you doing, doing that shuffle walk too. Hey, I don't hurt anymore. Yeah. And his reaction was right. And I'm like, wow. And I kind of went away and being kind of in the transitional phase that I was in with a kind of not loving, you know, computer, you know, computer science, you know, that kind of field and also being kind of a gym rat myself. So I was hanging, I was hanging out with with my PT and kind of, you know, kind of doing my own observation hours and doing my due diligence and asking about the education and everything. Speaker 2 (03:46): And he said, well, you know, because I was already I think at that point out of my twenties, right. He S he said, well, you should think about getting, becoming a PT assistant. So I looked into that, it's like, okay, I've got my bachelor's let me go to community college now, which, which involved you know, of course there was like a well years waiting period. And, you know, so I'm taking my anatomy and this, that, and the other completed that in 2013 and then worked as a PTA and all the time thinking, you know, I, I just want to go ahead and be able to practice on my own. So then that led to well basically looking at my, looking at my options for grad school and especially being someone by this time, let's see, what was I doing? Speaker 2 (04:57): I, I was, I w I'm trying to think about my day as a, as a like during my PT assistant time, I was going to school and then going to work as a rehab aid. And that at night I was going to skate with the Ohio roller girls. It's like, I don't know how I did it. So then I'm thinking if I go into a graduate program in, you know, physical therapy, I there's going to be this age difference at age and experience difference. And I remember I interviewed with one school and the she was, she was the admission secretary. And I won't say which school, but she said, you know, people are working later in life. Speaker 3 (05:55): Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1 (05:58): So I, Speaker 2 (05:59): I had heard about the bridge program up at university of Findlay. We can college bridge program. So that required preparation, as far as retaking physics taking, you know, my chemistry series, you know, thank goodness I had already taken exercise fits, but doing, you know, doing the thing so I could apply. And then that I got in, and at the same time, I was still required to work as a PTA as we went up to Finley every other weekend. And when I say we, I say, I met with my cohort from who came in from all across the country. So I had a two hour drive. There were people flying in from Seattle. Speaker 1 (06:51): And where is, so is Findlay college in Ohio Speaker 2 (06:55): And like colleges in North West. Speaker 1 (06:59): Okay. And can you explain a little bit more about what a bridge program is, should that people kind of understand what that means from like a PTA to a PT? Speaker 2 (07:10): Sure. So it's a bridge in the sense of you're a PTA and you want to become a PT, here's the thing. You will need your bachelor's degree. Okay. So I had that check you know, plus prerequisites, you know, check. And then since part of the requirement for working was to help with assignments that we would have, you know, and we would be given so we could focus more on the evaluation part of because we were all over the treatment part, you know, and there were people in my class who were already directors of rehab. So I, I was in a very very well-experienced and pretty, pretty smart class. It was, it was pretty intimidating. But also you get that benefit from, you know, all this co-mingling. So then it's basically like any other DPT program. It was three years, you know, with clinicals at the end, and then you take your boards and your, then I became dr. Dr. Gina. Speaker 1 (08:38): Right. And so within that, those bridge programs, how many of those programs exist in the United States? Speaker 2 (08:46): My understanding is only two, this one and one in Texas whose name is escaping me. Right. But but yeah, and here's the thing too because I always always kind of had in the back of my mind, well, I can always apply to the bridge program. It was, it was kind of like in my, in my back pocket, right. University of Findlay is a private school. So you also have to keep in mind the two wishes that goes with it, right. Plus travel accommodations, and also time off work when you need to, you know, do certain things, you know, such as your, your research and projects and, and all that. Right. Speaker 1 (09:38): And when it comes to then your clinical affiliations. So at that point, do you have to leave your PTA job in order to do your clinical evaluation or your clinical placements? Speaker 2 (09:50): Yes. And I would say it was a little messy because we were, we were pretty much we work, we were kind of responsible for finding our placements. Right. so yeah, so then you are going off, you know, working someplace now you don't have the income. Okay. So you have, you have that to deal with. And there were Oh, I don't even know how many people in my class had children, some had young children but you know, somehow they managed, you know we got a big heads-up from the class before us, you know, like in our orientation, spoke to us and said, you guys are gonna need a team to help you get through this. You have to rely on each other. You have to rely on your spouses, your partners, your friends, you know, some things as basic as have a food plan. And I'm not even kidding because, you know, between, between working, coming home and studying, you're done, you're done. You know, so my, my husband, you know, I, I started out, you know, like with the food prepping and the making the healthy food and every, by the end, we're eating pizza. Speaker 1 (11:26): Yeah. I was going to say, are you going to be, yeah, Speaker 2 (11:30): Can you, can you please, you know, pick up, pick up something? Yeah, Speaker 1 (11:34): Yeah. It's it's pizza and take out at the end. So I think that brings up a lot of really important considerations for people. So if you are a physical therapist assistant and you are looking to become a physical therapist, we know there are maybe just two bridge programs in the United States. And that there are a lot of considerations that you have to think about before you go into that program. Like when did you do your clinical placements? You kind of can't work at your job as a PTA anymore. Right? Absolutely. And what did you do? What would be your best tips for time management? We know, obviously you just gave away that by the end you're it's pizza and take out now I'm just joking, but what, what are some good tips on, on time management, as you said, you have to study, do research, and you're still working as a PTA. Speaker 1 (12:33): My, my time management, I think number one you know, God love him. I, you know, I have cats, I don't have children, you know, on it, honestly, I didn't know how the parents did it. And I think they were even better time managers than I was. So for them, it was, you know, working around, okay, the kids, the kids are in bed or it's before the kids are up. And for me, it was kind of the same thing. Like if I wanted to, you know, spend time with my, with my husband, you know, occasionally it would be up, you know, first thing in the morning because I'm more I'm and it also depends, you know, if you're morning person, evening person, you know, cause I'm like out like a light, you know, if I've got something to do, I'm up at 5:00 AM, no problem. Speaker 1 (13:32): And I guess the thing that I'm taking away here, and this, this might be my like naive T here, but I thought like a bridge program going from a PTA to a PT would be, I don't want to say easier than your traditional program, but that, because you're already in the field, that it would be easier. Do you know what I mean? And that's clearly not the case. Like I didn't realize it was three years. I thought, Oh, maybe it's like two years and most of it's clinical. So I think this is really painting a clearer picture for people of like, no, this is still a three-year commitment, three years of financial commitments, perhaps loans, everything else that goes along with it. Was there anything about the bridge program that surprised you? Because I'm surprised number one, that it's three years and that it's, you know, I don't, I don't know what I was thinking, but this was not it. So I'm glad that you're bringing all this up. So is there anything about the program that really surprised you? Speaker 4 (14:35): And on that note, we'll take a quick break to hear from our sponsor and be right back with Gina's answer. This episode is brought to you by net health, helping you maintain strong relationships with your patients. The redox patient portal provides secure line of communication between you and your patients conduct virtual visits and have follow-up conversations with your patients via secure messaging. When it's convenient for you, patients have 24 seven secure on-demand access to their therapy, health information without phone calls and voice messages, video conferencing for tele-health secure messaging, shared documents and photos and view health information, and appointments to learn more, contact them@redocatnethealth.com. Speaker 2 (15:23): Biggest surprise for me was for a program that had been a browned, as long as it had been that we still had to work around a university and kind of the cap, the system that I think really, really wanted us to be a traditional program, you know in the sense of, for example, I know after us clinicals were starting to be changed to, I think, get people into the field earlier, which was, which was, you know, once again kinda messing with people's employment. So they were, they were serving us, you know, would you prefer, you know, to do like two weeks at the beginning and we're thinking, well, how, how are we going to do that? If you know, our, you know, our clinic, our staff, you know, wherever we're working needs us. Yeah. Not that, not, not, not what you would have expected. Speaker 2 (16:32): And yeah, I guess the next question is and you sort of alluded to this when you said you were looking at other physical therapy programs and the woman said, Oh, well, you know, people are working later in life, but let me ask you, which is kind of an interesting thing to say, but what, what do you feel like, or would you feel that you're kind of coming into the doctorate of physical therapy, not coming straight out of high school or straight out of college? What advantage did that give to you? Coming into the field as a newly-minted DPT? I think it gave us a huge boost of confidence because I know that in, in my career, as a PTA, I worked for probably a dozen different PTs seeing how they worked you know, what what they could have done better, you know, what they did great how patients responded, you know, and plus you know, I've, I've got all my treating already, they're already in place. Okay. so I even, I even find it a little hard to imagine. Wow. If I were, if I were coming out of a traditional program and I've heard this spoken about a little bit of, you know, just trying to build that confidence in that first year. Well, I came out and it was kind of like, well, you know, I just had evaluations to what I'm doing. Speaker 1 (18:20): And when, let me ask you this, when you were a physical therapist assistant, what was your experience like as a physical therapist? Speaker 2 (18:31): It really depended on the PT. A lot of them, I felt had a lot of trust in me because they, you know, they saw that, you know, their patients were getting results and I had good rapport with them and, and so forth. Had a few, it became, it became a little more interesting once I was in school. Because I know there was, there was one particular person who he was, he was pretty fresh out of school and he seemed to want to challenge me a lot, like, you know, kind of like, you know, pop quizzes and, you know, things like that. It seemed a little light gatekeeping a little bit. But I mean, that was, you know, that was minor compared to, you know, the other the other PTs that I worked with. Speaker 1 (19:33): Yeah. Well, that's interesting. I know, cause I, I, I often wonder what that experience is like. And then, so for you moving from the physical therapist assistant to the physical therapist was all about having a little more autonomy and agency over your career, is that right? Absolutely. Yeah. And when you graduated, what were your, how did you feel then? So, you know, cause it's, it's, it was a difficult to make that transition. Did you kind of fall back into old habits after you graduated? Or was it more like I got this, I'm doing it, Speaker 2 (20:10): You know, I, I would think it, it really felt like I was ready for this. Now, the part that I didn't expect, and I think this was from my experiences in my clinical rotations as a PTA and then do it in doing it again as a PT and also couple of affiliations. They were kind of more in kinda more of those mill like settings. So I didn't go into PT school thinking I'm going to become a owner, but once I was finished, I was adamant that I needed to create my own career. Speaker 1 (20:57): And you knew that. So when did you graduate from physical therapy school? Couldn't get your DPT. Speaker 2 (21:03): So let's grow graduation was end of 2018. Yeah. And then test it for my boards in what was wow. May how, sorry, how soon we Speaker 1 (21:20): Forget. I know you seem to have blocked that out. Speaker 2 (21:22): Yeah. I'm sorry. April, April. Okay. Speaker 1 (21:25): Okay. So, so it sounds like the experience that you have previously really set you up to then say, I'm ready to, to become that entrepreneur. I'm ready to kind of do this. Speaker 2 (21:39): I think as far as mindset. Yeah. Still in our, our business class was kind of the classic. Okay. Let's write a business plan about how to build a brick and mortar clinic. So then the business knowledge some of, some of it I, you know, took away from the free resources on the AP TA website but being a solo clinician and cash based I felt that I needed to look for kind of more support, you know, as far as networking and, and all that. And because I was dealing with different issues than say a larger clinic with, you know, accepting insurance and several therapists and whatnot. Yeah. Speaker 1 (22:38): Right. So, I mean, and of course, like moving on through the business, that's a whole other discussion, which, you know, maybe one day we will have on here as well. But what I think it's important to note is that, you know, you mentioned it briefly is the mindset part of it. You're like, Oh, I had the mindset part and kind of skimmed over that. But that is so important because like I said, when I graduated from PT school, no way in hell, did I ever think I'd be able to own my own business? Just wasn't even on my radar, you know? So what advice would you give to, I guess, newer, newer grads, whether they're traditional or non-traditional like yourself who are thinking about starting their own practice Speaker 2 (23:25): To find people in and hang out with people who, who were doing what you would like to be doing, you know? Yeah, there were already folks in my class who, you know, they were, they were having their plans in place. Like one of them was going to be, become a partner in a clinic. You know, I mentioned several were directors of rehab someplace, another guy he already had, you know, his his athlete and sports training practice up. I mean, he was, I mean, he was running that well, he was doing everything else. Speaker 1 (24:07): Yeah. So it seems, I think what's so interesting is, is that sort of non-traditional path to physical therapy. It seems like it, you know, because people have already gone through so many life experiences or maybe different jobs and they feel like, boy, they're really ready to be in the space that they're in and own it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 (24:34): And I definitely, I definitely know that confidence was there. And even, and at the same time, I know of a few classmates, they were already looking at residencies, you know, they were looking at specialization. Speaker 1 (24:54): Yeah. So, I mean, I, so I think to my big takeaway here is to all of the more traditional PTs out there who maybe have a non-traditional student or a physical therapist in their class, or who are in class with people who may be were our, our physical therapists assistants and, and going for that DPT is to make sure that you seek them out and learn from them because they've got these life experiences that when you're 21 and 22, you just don't have, you know, and so seek those people out in your class and, and definitely learn more about them and learn where they're from and where they want to go. Because I think that as a, not as a traditional student, and when I say traditional, I mean, you know, you came out of high school, went to college and now you're in PT school is sort of straight linear track. That there's so much more that the non-traditional student can can offer because you've got some more life experiences under your belt. Absolutely. Speaker 2 (26:05): Let me add another point to that. As far as the confidence part, because especially working with older clients, they seem to have a little bit more comfort working with someone my age. Speaker 1 (26:23): Mm. Yeah. And yeah, that makes sense. Sometimes kind Speaker 2 (26:29): Of already assumed that I was a PT Speaker 1 (26:33): Working there even as you were a physical therapist assistant. Speaker 2 (26:41): Yeah. As I said, I was a student Speaker 1 (26:44): Yo, as you were a student. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't even think about that. So, so the, the confidence, not just that you exude, but that, that the patients can kind of feel it and yeah, that's interesting. Speaker 2 (27:01): Yeah. And also I think the the ability to quickly develop rapport and all those, all those good skills, you know, like listening and responding and, and hearing and seeing how people are presenting instead of, you know, being, you know, well, you know, I'm still learning these basic you know, I have to learn all the things I, I have to learn how to evaluate, you know, but also how to treat and progress and this, that, and the other I've already, I've already got the, you know, I'm already thinking ahead, you know, to what their course of treatment is going to look like, you know, because I've seen it. Right. Speaker 1 (27:47): Yeah. You've got the experience. Yeah. Yeah. And experience, as we know, is, is so important. So, so let me ask you as we start to wrap things up here. So I gave you what my biggest takeaway was, what's your biggest takeaway and what would you like the listeners to take away from, from our discussion of your journey of this, of being a non-traditional PT? Speaker 2 (28:10): My biggest takeaway. So you have the benefit of the non-traditional experience, you know, meeting all these people with different, you know, different knowledge bases and certifications and things like that. Also at the same time, there's a, there's a challenge to doing things such as, you know, say going to a conference, you know, like CSM, because you're, you have to think about, you're going to be in school when a lot of these events happen. So it's like you, if you really, really want to go, you have to plan, you have to make plans for it and, and, you know, get, get an excused absence, you know, for want of a better word. So that, that can really, I, I think you need to then really, really work on your networking when you're finished. I think because of that. Yeah. Speaker 1 (29:20): Yeah. That may be aware of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And then, you know, I'll ask you the same question I ask everyone, and that's knowing where you are now in your life and in your career. What advice would you give to your younger self? And let's not say when you graduated PT school. Cause that was like a year ago. So let's maybe go back little bit more like maybe when you graduated undergrad or something. Yeah. Speaker 2 (29:45): Back in the day. Not, not everyone who gives you advice knows what they're talking about. Speaker 1 (29:58): True story. Yes. Speaker 2 (30:00): Because that's how I ended up in computer science, which was not the right career path for you, which was not the right career path. Right? Yeah. So yeah, the thing, the thing that I wish I would have done a lot more of was extracurricular, so I could have, could have known myself a whole lot better. That's great. But to make, yeah. To make make a better guided choice. Speaker 1 (30:29): Mm great advice now, Gina, where can people find you? So first of all, talk about your podcast and then where can people find you? Speaker 2 (30:36): I would be happy to, so I am the producer and host of the medical necessity podcast where I help guide people through the flood of medical information out there. I love it. Yeah. Available on wherever you get your podcasts, pod, bean, Spotify iHeart radio at iTunes and my business is called my tree physio-therapy LLC. You can find me@maitri.physio. And I practice in Ohio. I'm licensed in Ohio. I bring a world-class world-class physical therapy to your home or via tele health. So you can, you can find me there and I would love to treat that Speaker 1 (31:36): Awesome. Well, we will have all of the links to everything at the show notes at podcast out healthy, wealthy, smart.com. So if you didn't, weren't taking notes, don't worry. One click will get you to everything, including your website and your podcast and social media as well. Jean has got a great Instagram page where she shares a lot of great free information with everyone. So you'll definitely want to check out her Instagram, what's your Instagram handle Speaker 2 (32:06): At medical underlying necessity. Speaker 1 (32:09): Awesome. So Gina, thank you so much for coming on. This was great. And I think it gives people a lot to think about, especially those physical therapist assistants out there who may be there on the edge, maybe they're thinking, Hmm. Do I want to go on? So I think you gave a lot of great information, a lot of great insights, so I appreciate it. Speaker 2 (32:30): Well, thank you. And I hope absolutely anyone who has questions about this bridge program, feel free to reach out to me. Speaker 1 (32:39): Awesome. Thank you so much. And everyone who's listening. Thank you so much for listening. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy and smart. Thanks for listening and subscribing to the podcast! Make sure to connect with me on twitter, instagram  and facebook to stay updated on all of the latest!  Show your support for the show by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts  

Linda Franklin is one of the strongest people we know - and we mean that literally! She holds world records for power lifting and has ranked at an elite national level for cross fit. Linda was diagnosed with type 1 at age 26 and reveals she struggled with management until she found her community. You may know Linda from the amazing Facebook group, Type 1 Diabetic Athletes  In Tell Me Something Good, the dedication of a dad. Innovations this week has an update on the longest wear CGM yet. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Check out Stacey's new book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode Transcription  Stacey Simms  0:00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop created for people with diabetes by people who have diabetes by Gvoke hypo pen, the first premixed auto injector for very low blood sugar, and by Dexcom take control of your diabetes and live life to the fullest with Dexcom.   Announcer  0:22 This is Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  0:27 This week, Linda Franklin is a world record holder for powerlifting diagnosed with type one at age 26. She's in her early 60s and at an elite level, but she says she really struggled with management until she finally met somebody else with T1D, who shared her passions.   Linda Franklin  0:46 And I was trying to do CrossFit and coping with the crazy blood sugars. And I was really having a difficult time when I met him. It was really an eye opener for him and meat. We were just so excited to talk to each other about things,   Stacey Simms  1:00 Linda and that friend Daniel went on to create a now well respected and very large Facebook group for athletes with diabetes. We'll hear more of Linda's story and get some great advice about fitness and type one in tell me something good. The dedication of a dad and in Innovations an update on the longest wear CGM yet this podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Welcome to another week of Diabetes Connections. I'm your host, Stacey Simms, and I'm really glad to have you along. We aim to educate and inspire about type 1 diabetes by sharing stories of connection. I don't know about you, I am on the edge. What a stressful time. I mean, this year has already been bonkers. I find myself, as they say, Doom-scrolling through Twitter, I was already on my phone way too much before this year. And it's just multiplied to the nth degree. Now, don't worry, I'm not going to talk politics here. This is not the place for that you do not come here. I am sure to talk politics. And if we were going to have a show about that, because let's face it, sometimes there are issues you would know before you heard me start talking. This is not that. But I do think it's important to acknowledge that politics is exhausting us. Everything is exhausting us right now. And I thought it would just take a minute to share with something that is really helping me. And maybe you have your own version of this. Maybe I'll put this in the Facebook group when this episode comes out. And it's Diabetes Connections of the group. I really hope you can join us on Facebook. It's such a great group of super smart, wonderful people. But what's helping me is another podcast. It is pop culture, happy hour. It's an NPR podcast. It's been going on for years and years. I think they just celebrated their 10 year anniversary. And they just talk about pop culture for 20 or 30 minutes. It's fun, it's distracting. And what I have been doing lately because I just found this podcast this year. So there's a huge back catalogue to me. I'm going back and listening to podcasts from 2016 2018. You know, I'm listening to them talk about movies, and TV shows and things that were popular in the news a long time ago. And you know what? It's a great distraction, and it gives my brain a break. So I know you come here for diabetes news and not necessarily weird podcast recommendations. But man that is really helping me right now. Along with walking my dog. Maybe I should give a little nod to fitness since that was what we're talking about. Actually this episode. You know, I live in the Carolinas. I live in Charlotte, North Carolina. We're so lucky. We live near a Greenway and the weather is generally pretty nice. So I have been able to walk my dog almost every single day. She's actually right here under the table as I tape. She's usually pretty quiet and when she's not, We edit that out. But my dog's name is Freckles. She's not very friendly. She likes us but she hasn't met anybody else that she likes yet. Except maybe my dad. He does like when grandpa comes to visit because he also walks her every single day. But man, she's an interesting character. Anyway, we will get to Linda Franklin. That's why you're here. Linda Franklin, who is an amazing, amazing story, not just for her dedication to fitness and her passion for it her world records in powerlifting but her diagnosis story and what she found inspiring early on, and a teenage Bret Michaels how he makes an appearance. So we got a lot to talk about. But first diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop. Getting diabetes supplies is a pain. Not only the ordering and the picking up but also the arguing with insurance over what they say you need and what you really need. Make it easy with One Drop. They offer personalized test strip plans. Plus you get a Bluetooth glucose meter test strips lancets and your very own certified diabetes coach. Subscribe today to get test strips for less than $20 a month delivered right to your door. No prescriptions or co pays required. One less thing to worry about not that surprising when you learn that the founder of One Drop lips with type one they get it One Drop gorgeous gear supplies delivered to your door 24 seven access to your certified diabetes coach learn more, go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the One Drop logo. Like many of you, when I have question about sports and diabetes, mostly about my son, I head over to the type one diabetic athletes group. It is one of the biggest Facebook groups there is. But it's also largely drama free and full of support. My guest this week is a big reason why she didn't start the group. You'll hear more about that in our interview. But she is an inspiring and I think larger than life personality, who challenges us each week with flex Friday and other fun posts. Linda Franklin is a world record holder in powerlifting. And before that, she placed 14th Worldwide in the 2014 CrossFit open this interview was conducted live in that Facebook group, you can watch it there it's recorded and then playback in the group. Or you can see it on our YouTube channel Diabetes Connections over on YouTube, I will link all of that up in the episode homepage as usual, at Diabetes connections.com It was great to talk to Linda here is our interview. We don't normally take like this and who the heck knows how it's gonna go. But she's been such a great sport. And I'm so excited to welcome my guest someone a lot of you know quite a bit about but some of you may not and boy but a story. Linda Franklin, thank you very much for letting me in the group and agreeing to do this and fingers crossed, it all works out.   Linda Franklin  6:22 Yeah, it will.   Stacey Simms  6:23   Let's jump right in. Because this is a group for and about athletes. And I joined this group because of my son, who was a type one. And he's played a billion different sports. Most recently, he's more interested in wrestling. But I'm just so impressed with the amount of knowledge in this group. Do you mind just sharing how the group itself came to be? Sure.   Linda Franklin  6:46 So Daniel Borba, who has been a lot a little inactive lately, because he's expecting his second child, which is super exciting. But I met him back in 2013, my brother said called me and said, hey, there's a type one diabetic in my gym, my brother on the CrossFit box. And we were both so excited because he knew I didn't know anybody. And so I met Daniel, we did a little tiny podcast that just disappeared, you know, was wasn't much of anything, but it was so great to get to know him. And he'd been thinking about exercising and not there just wasn't much knowledge out there for how to control blood sugars, exercise, being type one, taking insulin, it's very complicated. So he just got decided to start this group and invited me and here we are. This was seven years ago from June, and it's blown up. Well, unfortunately.   Stacey Simms  7:44 Yeah. Well, I mean, there's good and bad, right?   Linda Franklin  7:47 Yes, yes. Well, let's   Stacey Simms  7:48 talk about the good and a little bit. I mean, we're gonna talk about your story and all of your incredible accomplishments. But I'm really curious seven years ago, and that's about when I started my local Facebook group to the diabetes community was interested in in kind of different things. The technology has changed. Now the knowledge has changed. Do you remember the first kind of questions people had I imagined it was just how do I work out without crashing?   Linda Franklin  8:11 It was very small. We were like 300. To begin with, I would say for the first year, three to 500 people. So it got to be very intimate. And as the group grows, larger, questions become more voluminous. And you can start categorizing everything. But at first it was Yes, that was a big, big problem, or spike, what a really big problem was because it was really based around CrossFit to begin with was the spike after exercise. That was a huge, huge problem. And for me, too, because I was doing CrossFit at the time. And it was a that crashing and spiking after exercise was a big, big issue in the group, how to eat before you get started and when and how much and how much protein and I could go on?   Stacey Simms  8:57 Well, I'm gonna ask you to so I made a note of that, because I think it would be great to get some of your advice a little bit later on. But you said CrossFit, now I'm looking at your bio, and I don't even know where to start your soccer CrossFit world record holder now powerlifting let's go all the way back before you were diagnosed in your 20s What's your sport in high school? Like Were you always athletic?   Linda Franklin  9:24 I was a cheerleader. Okay, this was the 70s, early 70s back in what was cheerleading,   Stacey Simms  9:30 the sport that it is now because the leader in high school in the 80s and it was not an athletic sport.   Linda Franklin  9:36 No, it wasn't then, but I grew up with a bunch of boys and I climbed trees. I've always been a tomboy. And when I did sports in school and high school classes, I set the standing broad jump record in high school and you know, just stuff like that. I kind of excelled at every sport that I did. Except for basketball. I can't run in triple vault. So that was like, but I think my whole family's pretty athletic.   Stacey Simms  10:04 So when you were diagnosed, first of all, what was the process? Were you given an answer immediately or at age 26?   Linda Franklin  10:12 Was it? We don't know what it was strange. Like I've told someone before, or many people that women, it's typical when you have a lot of high blood sugars for a long time, or even a short period, yeast infections are a really big problem. And it was for me, and I was actually in the midst of bodybuilding, starting lifting weights. And this is what introduced me to weights which I found a real love for. And I started just eating a lot drinking a lot up on my ping and the yeast infections got super bad. I look like I walked like I'd been riding horse for. So I went to the doctor, gynecologist beat into a company says you need to go to the lab, like today. So I went the next day because I'm 26 living by myself and my back. Yeah, whatever. Okay, right. Yeah. And I drink in syrup all day at the lab. And by the time I was done, I was like, almost 800. So they said, we'll come back in a few days. And you're going to go see your doctor on Monday. And you know, but they let me go home. And it was really casual. I mean, they knew, obviously, I was diabetic, but they didn't put me in the hospital right away like they would normally now. And that's pretty much how it all got started. Stacey Simms  12:07 Did you immediately think? Did someone tell you you can go right back to the gym? Or were you told don't work out? Do you remember anything different? Linda Franklin  10:12   No, I just remember sitting in the doctor's office with a diagnosis on Monday morning. And he just literally went into a fog. He just said you know you're gonna, this is gonna cut your life short. And just all the old 70s routine. And he wasn't trained. I mean, it was an internist, or whatever you call them and wasn't really trained in depth about diabetes, treated mostly type two. So he did tell me not to do activity. But I didn't go back to bodybuilding because I wasn't feeling good.   Stacey Simms  12:07 What led you back to your activities at all, though? Because you didn't ultimately wind up not exercising?   Linda Franklin  12:14 Yeah, absolutely. So what happened though, is I got really active only to control my blood sugar. I refused insulin, I freaked out. Well, I didn't have parents looking over me gone for doing this. I didn't have   Stacey Simms  12:28 an endocrinologist either. As you said, You know, I didn't. It was   Linda Franklin  12:31 just pretty, pretty basic. And I just decided, Okay, well, after I eat, I'm just gonna I gotta jump rope. I jumped rope, or walked or ran after every meal for about three months, until I was down to eating out of a jar peanut butter and decided, I think I need insulin. I just couldn't do it anymore. But that's I just, it was ingrained in me to exercise anyway, before that. So I decided, Okay, I kind of laid off for a little bit. And then I got back into snow skiing and doing normal things. But I wasn't in great control or anything. But I still did stuff.   Stacey Simms  13:10 Yeah. I mean, you couldn't have felt that great. But you also don't want to sit home and not   Linda Franklin  13:13 feel great. No, I'm not wanting to sit behind and watch everybody do stuff when I know. So when did things start to get better? Actually, I would say right before my first pregnancy, I knew that I needed to get my ducks in a row before this happened. That was when I was 33. And I went to the sweet Success Program. But they were both my pregnancies were planned. And I decided I got my a one c under six and got pregnant, had my first baby. And then two years later, did the same thing. And then after that it got a little bit crazy again, you know, with kids and was hard to keep in control. But that's when I realized I need to do better. I didn't have a blood sugar meter, the first two years, I cut my strips into quarters to save money because the meters then would take cut strips, they won't know. So I did that. And I did all these things to save money. But I did a lot of injections to I was stacking insulin a lot up and down, up and down get really low get really high. And it was I was a mess. Before we move on,   Stacey Simms  14:21 you mentioned something called Sweet success. Is that a local program to you is that a hospital program actually   Linda Franklin  14:27 was a nationwide program, I believe for women type ones that get pregnant and they just start this program suitesuccess. I don't know if it's California based or if it is nationwide. I'm not really sure but it is I do know here in California and it was wonderful. He said he was at a more it was at a UC hospital. I was there every two weeks but they both went fairly well.   Stacey Simms  14:54 It's such a different time I think it's hard to understand is   Unknown Speaker  14:57 that   Unknown Speaker  14:58 not only the insulins were different But as you said the blood sugar meters were new in the mid 80s. It's not like it is now at all.   Stacey Simms  15:11 Right back to Linda answering that question and taking a look back. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dexcom. And we have been using the Dexcom G6 since it came out more than two years ago. And it's amazing. The Dexcom G6 is now FDA permitted for no finger sticks for calibration and diabetes treatment decisions. You do that to our warmup, and the number just pops up. I mean, do you remember back before where you had to wait in a two hour warmup, and then you calibrate then it would start populating? It's just a great advancement. We've been using a Dexcom for seven years in December, and it just keeps getting better. The G6 has longer sensor were now 10 days, and the new sensor applicator is so easy to use. Benny does this all by himself. Now. We love the alerts and alarms, and that we can set them how we want if your glucose alerts and readings from the G6 do not match symptoms or expectations use a blood glucose meter to make diabetes treatment decisions. To learn more, go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the Dexcom logo. Now back to Linda. And she's talking about what technology was like when she was first diagnosed.   Linda Franklin  16:20 No, there were no cgms there were no cell phones. I mean. So it was Harry Caray. You know, I especially being diagnosed in my mid 20s. I know some people that were diagnosis, children, their parents kind of monitored them and got them through high school into adulthood with a lot of success, but also got them real regimented. Whereas me, I'm 26 I've already got my routine and this gets in the way. And here I am gone. Uh, well, I'm just going to make do till whenever until you know more good stuff comes along. And I I suck at technology. But I sure do love it. I'm telling you.   Stacey Simms  17:00 Well, unless I'm laughing technology, I can't even get my your phone good wired things to behave. And you know when my lighting is insane, so we're in good company, sister. Don't worry about that. But let's talk about you said you started to turn things around a couple years after your second child was born. I'm curious, like, Did you meet somebody? Did you just say to yourself, Linda, I'm not feeling great. I want to do more. I got the CrossFit stuff going like   Linda Franklin  17:21 I'm actually no, I never did know anybody until the dots started. So I didn't really know anybody that was type one, until I was probably well, until I met Daniel Borba the founder of the group. That's why my brother called me said I met a type one because I really didn't know anybody than other. I worked in endocrinology office, and there was another girl there that was, but it wasn't the same as meeting and talking about   Stacey Simms  17:49 was it until you met him that you've got things. I don't see more under control. But you're such a success story. Um,   Linda Franklin  17:57 it did help because it, it made me pay attention to it more, I was kind of brushing it under the rug for a lot of years, like, Okay, I'm just gonna just shoot myself through my chains and just keep doing what I'm doing. And he put it in my face. And I was trying to do CrossFit and coping with the crazy blood sugars. And I was really having a difficult time. So when I met him, it was really an eye opener for him and me to talk about, we were just so excited to talk to each other about things. But before that, my whole connection with type one, and any type of anybody else out there with it. What were diabetes forecast magazines, and I'll never forget when I was in my mid to late 20s. I got one with Bret Michaels on the cover on my porch. I had it I have a T shirt, but it was so cool. I'm like, Oh my God, he's a teenager with type one. Wow. Yeah, it was it was weird. But I had stacks of diabetes forecasts and I would read them. And that's how I connected to it. There was nothing else to connect to really for me.   Stacey Simms  19:02 So tell me about CrossFit. This is not for the faint of heart. I don't even sure where to begin. I just think of people flipping tires. Right and to be ranked 14th in the world   Linda Franklin  19:13 at one point. Well, that was 2014 CrossFit open. Yeah. What goes into that? I got in. Okay, well, it's at that point in time, I was training five days a week. And in between all that I was riding up and down to the CrossFit box on a bike that had no gears up and down hills, like so, you know, I'm a nut. So that's what I did. And I just trained five days a week and did everything I could I mostly trained with it was all younger people in the box. So you know, at my age I started like I was like 57. So there just aren't weren't that many people who were that age in my box. So all these younger people in there and I'm going I gotta keep up.   Cuz that's my, that's how I think.   Stacey Simms  20:03 So take us through a little bit of how you manage diabetes, though, for something like CrossFit, when it is it's cardio with strength. There's just so much going on.   Linda Franklin  20:10 Right? Yeah. And there's a lot of variables and you don't know from day to day, and I actually had to talk to the owner there to give me the workouts the day before, which she doesn't know, CrossFit box likes to do that, because they don't want you to cherry pick their workouts, they want you to just come and do whatever is on the schedule that day. But I had told her, I can't keep doing this without knowing because I have to plan. And so she was kind enough to work with me and what I would do, I knew that what time the classes were, and after talking to Ronnie, my coach, back then he wasn't my coach, but he knew I was doing CrossFit. And he was actually an admin in the athletes group and said, you know, do some insulin and eat some protein and a small amount of carbs, but do half the insulin for it, and then go and take some Gatorade, put it in a bottle and have something to sip on, which is what I started doing, and it started to get better. But still, it was never perfect. It was really difficult. The ups and downs. And it mostly was the adrenaline afterwards kicked in. And I kicked in while I was working out. But afterwards, the blood sugar's were high for like 24 hours. And it was ongoing, you know, until I had to stop. Some days were different depending on the workout, but just some workouts just hit me really hard. So it was never stable.   Stacey Simms  21:30 Did you ever figure out how to handle this? I gotta tell you and I'm only dealing with a teenager. Yeah. Isn't CrossFit that much? Like he hasn't workout like that is what I mean. But we definitely have those adrenaline highs after certain sports.   Linda Franklin  21:42 Yeah, they're really tough alone. Yeah, soccer, I have really big problem with that, too. And my bigger problem, I think was all of it was that I would not eat. Like when I did soccer tournaments, I wouldn't, because I couldn't eat when I was out there running because I played striker. And it was, you know, a lot of sprinting, and I just can't eat and do that. So I wouldn't eat. And I think that is part of the problem was that I wasn't consuming enough food and taking insulin for it to get my blood sugar's down into a normal range. I think it's really important that people don't starve themselves around activities, just try to put your food in at a, you're not to stuff yourself, but eat the right things and take insulin for it, and you will get through it. It may not be perfect, but it will be better than if you don't eat at all, because your liver will raise its ugly head.   Stacey Simms  22:37 How then did you go to powerlifting, because that's just a natural progression, it's something happened to just see something or set a goal.   Linda Franklin  22:43 It was not a natural progression. I CrossFit, well, long term diabetes complications actually probably caused it I did with CrossFit, you do a lot of excessive gripping exercises, a lot of things are like do 100 days and then 50,000 level bar and you do the pull up thing. And with all the gripping that I was doing my overtime, your tendons thicken with diabetes when it's out of range. And so that's what happened and my fingers started to trigger all all of them all. But what happened for people who weren't familiar, Linda, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Can you explain what that is? When you say okay, triggered? Yeah, so trigger finger is you have tendons and all of your fingers. And there are two that go up to side. And there are little if you can imagine a fishing pole with a line on it with a little I don't fish but me there's, you know, there's a little you know, the little things that you thread the, the wire the line through, okay, so those are on your knuckles, and those of your tendons sliding up and down. So the line so when you when they get thick, and like weedy and stuff, then they don't slide as well, they get caught. So with the thickening tendon, it can't slide through the little shields that are on the side there on your knuckles, so they get caught and they get stuck, and then you pop your finger open. But it's a it's a really common problem with diabetes and in women that are my age. So I went to UCLA doctor, he said, No, all your fingers are involved, and we're gonna have to do surgery. So I had a lot of hand surgery. And so I recovered and then I had shoulder surgery several weeks later, so I was just a mess for about a year. But I knew that I needed to get back to lifting I just I missed it so much and I just couldn't sit still my blood sugar's were starting to was gaining weight. I'm like, Oh, I just don't like feeling like this. So I talked to my brother who's a CrossFit expert. He's been in the games four times, and he told me you know, you could possibly power left and went back to the gym, started working on it, put a video in the Athletes group and I said, Okay, I've kind of reached a point where I don't know where to go from here. What do I do? And Rodney saw my video and he's like, let's talk. So we talked. And that's how I got started. Wow. What   Stacey Simms  25:11 is appealing to you? About powerlifting? I can think of a lot of things. But I'm curious, like, why do you do it? What do you get from it?   Linda Franklin  25:21 Oh, man, that's a really tough question to answer. I think it's a rush of, and there's obviously adrenaline involved, too, but just lifting heavy, it's mental. You know, obviously, there's a physical benefit for it. But the mental part of it for me is that I like feeling strong. I just love the feeling of being strong, or getting stronger. And I don't care about, you know, records are great and everything. But to me, it's just the feeling of being strong is wonderful.   Stacey Simms  25:54 What was it like, though? I mean, I know it's not about the records. There's a tremendous picture of you. I think you're breaking a record. And there's a crowd of people. I don't know if it's a video screen. I couldn't tell from the photo that I was looking at. And everybody's kind of cheering and robbed me, especially as cheering. Oh, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, just Philadelphia   Linda Franklin  26:13 meet that. I went to, I believe, yeah. And in fact, that was me. And Roz, such who is in our group and does the daily workouts on the weekends, we did a meet together, Rodney coached six or seven of us out with a group, but there were seven type ones that did that. Wow, that meet in Philadelphia. So I flew out there from California, never flown that far in my life. But I did it. And we It was a blast. And it was a huge type. One thing was so awesome.   Stacey Simms  26:46 I'll come back to the other questions and about the records. But what was that like for you? I mean, as you said, You've never flown that far, you came all the way east to be with a group of type ones power lifting. I mean, that must have been an incredible situation just to be around everybody.   Linda Franklin  27:00 Yeah. Well, and, and in fact, I hadn't met half of them. But we had talked, you know, over social media and stuff for some length. And although Roz, I knew before that she had come out and handled me for a meet in California, which was amazing. Another one of us flew out from Portland. And it was just, I can't even explain how crazy it was with the blood sugars and all the beeps. And it was just insane. But we were all there cheering each other on. And you know, Rodney had his hands full. Let me tell you. That's awesome. It was pretty incredible.   Stacey Simms  27:35 What's different about managing blood sugar's when you're powerlifting? Then CrossFit, do you mind if is like a little bit of advice, maybe to for people who are looking to get into it.   Linda Franklin  27:43 What I found is consistency is key. And it doesn't have to be every day. Because when I first when I first started getting really back into exercise, after being diagnosed, I tried to do something every single day. And I don't do that now. And I don't feel that I really have to other than I don't sit down all day long. But what I find with it is, it's more of a weekly pattern, versus a daily pattern. And if you do, train over time, you'll start to see changes in your blood sugar's at first when I first started, it wasn't great, but I started to learn how to treat. I knew what my weak plan was. And I could say, Okay, today, I'm gonna have a little snack before I go. But typically, I know how to combat highs better because it's not random stuff. I know what I'm getting into. Because it's just easier for me. It's more predictable. And now my body feels that it is to   Stacey Simms  28:45 Is it a matter of keeping track and logs or looking at your CGM data?   Linda Franklin  28:50 A CGM data is important. I used to keep logs ridiculously back before anything was around, so I can't do that anymore. I tried it last two days, and I'm done. But I do keep a workout book. I don't record my blood sugar's though. But I do know that when I go out there, I'm in a range. I either put my exercise mode on, I take my pop off if I see it start to fall, but I typically run fairly flat. Unless I just for some odd reason. Something goes awry. And that happens.   Stacey Simms  29:23 You mentioned exercise mode. Do you use control iQ? Is that what Yes,   Linda Franklin  29:27 I do.   Stacey Simms  29:28 Tandem Dexcom. And it works pretty well for powerlifting.   Linda Franklin  29:32 It does when you're doing high reps. When I do heavier weight, lower reps. I don't mess with it. I just leave it alone. But I do. You know I have an exercise bike in the garage. I get on every once in a great while. I do it   Stacey Simms  29:47 a couple of minutes ago, you mentioned complications. And I feel like sometimes especially we as parents, we're so afraid to talk about that kind of stuff. Right? And the only way we want to talk about it is did you do it Right, with what did you do? What was your a win? See? How did you eat? Or did you at hell? You know, we were so narrow minded on that, that I just want to ask you, and I guess I'm, I'm trying to figure how to ask you. But first, let me say thank you for talking about complications in the first place, because it is something that happens. It's not something obviously, you have always taken great care of yourself, even when you were saying earlier that you didn't, you're active, healthy person. Is it hard, though, to share those experiences with the diabetes community?   Linda Franklin  30:29 Actually, it isn't. And I feel that I'm being helpful when I do that. Because it could be diabetes, it could be anything else. To me, it's part of living life. And I look at it as I've done the best that I can, I don't look at it as a bad thing. I just try to let people know as not to be afraid of it, I do as I get older, I do have some anxiety around it now like seeing my blood work. When I go to the doctor i get i get real anxiety around lab work and stuff like that, I it's just part of getting older. It's not just part of being diabetic. You know, my mother died from type two kidney disease. And I helped her go through the process. And it was really, it left a real whole, you know, and I but it also made me aware that I need to, I really need to be careful. And so when I wait for my labs to come, I'm always like, how are my kidneys, you know, that's the first thing I worry about, because of what she went through. I saw what she went through. But you can only be the best you can from day to day. And I just hate to see people beat themselves up day after day. And I have adapted to what my hands are now they're not pretty and they're not, you know, my palms are strong, my fingertips are weak, but I found something I could do to keep me healthy. So you just adapt around these things. It's what we have to do as human beings, regardless of what we're dealing with. And I think it's good to know. I mean, I had someone reach out to me the other day about trigger fingers. She's been diabetic for almost 20 years, maybe I feel so good that people can reach out to me and talk to me about it. Because it's it's a real thing, just like frozen shoulder and all that other stuff in the end being type one diabetic. And I just think that it's okay. There are ways to handle it. I had a great surgeon, he fixed me up not perfect, but it's another chink in my armor. Now, and now I've got stories to tell right? down   Stacey Simms  32:22 it's life with or without diabetes. Yes. You had mentioned before we got started that your daughter had learned a lot from you, in terms of being able to spot diabetes. Can you share that story?   Linda Franklin  32:35 Yeah. So you know, with my kids, obviously, I've had two kids while being pregnant at 33 and 35. And both of them have had to give me glucagon. Unfortunately, I know, there's a lot of people that have lived as long with diabetes as I have and have never had to use it. But here I am. And they recognize signs just from being around me. Are you low? All the typical questions, but she worked at a daycare center and in a gym, and the couple brought their daughter there. She was 18 months old, and they dropped her off and she was not well, and my daughter was holding her and said, I think she's diabetic. I don't know what clued her in but there was some symptoms that this little girl was having that, you know, she recognized. I can't really tell you but I'm so thankful in a weird way that she did.   Stacey Simms  33:25 And and the 18 month old did wind up getting diagnosed.   Linda Franklin  33:28 Yes, she was the youngest in the county. Yeah, at that time. And actually she was it was in the hospital for quite some time and we ended up nannying her after that first my daughter, and then I did and I gotta tell you, kudos to you because I nannied her for six months, and I was a wreck. Oh, the literal wreck. I'm like, I can't do this anymore.   Stacey Simms  33:52 There is truly I mean, every there's no good. There's no bad he didn't do the type one right? It all stinks. But there is truly something unique about toddlers and very little ones. It is a it's a circus. Yeah. It's just it you have to laugh.   Linda Franklin  34:07 Because thank God, I know. Well, you know, the parents were super cool. And they just wanted her to be they loved having us there. And they knew that I handle it. But the thing is, and they were regimented, but not to the they want her to live a normal life. And it was so great to know that not to restrict her so much that she couldn't have fun. That's great. That's, that's funny.   Stacey Simms  34:30 So a world record holder, all this wonderful stuff. You are in your early 60s. Now what do you have any any other goal or is there anything you're working on now? I mean, you've done enough You don't have to.   Linda Franklin  34:44 Actually I am signed up for me to November, but it's November 7, in LA there's COVID there's the election. I think I may just pass on this. I'm really giving it some serious thought and I think it might just I might just do a mock meet at home. You know, I'm a little scared about the COVID thing, because I've had diabetes for so long and, and my age, even though I'm healthy, I don't know how much vascular disease I have. And they do say that that's an issue with it. So I just want to be careful. And there's no point in me really stressing out about something like that right now. It's not that important to me to go do so I figured I could just do a fake one in my garage. Hey,   Stacey Simms  35:24 I've seen some pictures of your garage, though.   Linda Franklin  35:26 I'm not what I was   Stacey Simms  35:28 gonna say you. Did you put that together this year?   Linda Franklin  35:31 Yeah, actually, some young kids here at the gym locally, the gym shut down. They had it at the gym, back up, and they sold it. And I bought it. Oh, I was very blessed in that regard. But yeah, so it's little tiny, single car garage. But I got it all in there. Just what I need. And it's working great.   Stacey Simms  35:49 I'm curious. After all this time, it must be just such a part of your life. But do you still have to get psyched up to work out as often as you do? Are there days where you're just like, I'm laying in bed on none of this nonsense?   Linda Franklin  36:00 And not very many? Yeah. I have them every now and then I had one just I think it was Sunday. Actually. It was like, yeah, I'll just put it off to tomorrow. But no, I have to set goals. Oh, to stay motivated, you know, but I I'm always looking for a goal. I can't not have one. And I think it's really important for people to have goals, but not to get so hung up on it. It's not a failure. If you don't meet it, it's the fact that you're working on something is the success.   Stacey Simms  36:30 Before I do let you go here. I'm curious. There's so many people in the group here for support here for advice. If somebody is just kind of dipping their toe in the water as an adult with type one or a parent of a kid who's you know, playing high school sports, any advice for them? I mean, I would assume that with the technology that we have, things are easier, but there's still some basics that you have to think about.   Linda Franklin  36:50 Yeah, well, there's always a couple things I preach about. And one is when I did have that really bad, low blood sugar, my daughter's boyfriend's a firefighter. And he said, Hey, you need to get up a box of and put on their low blood sugar type ones, snacks, or whatever you want to put on there. But make it bold and let everybody know where it's at. So when you go to sleep at night, and you start to have a low, it's always so important to have something on you or near you all the time. It doesn't have to be like if you're in the house, big deal. It could be across the room. But when you're in bed, and you're sleeping, you should have something by your bed, it gives your parents peace of mind. Or if you go play sports, you need to let everybody know that you're diabetic. I when I first joined a soccer team, that's the very first thing I did. I'm actually proud to be diabetic. Not that I like having it. But I'm proud to tell people look at this is me, this is what I'm going to do. And I want you to support me because I'm going to do this. So I think it's important to embrace it. Just let people know, don't hide it from anybody. And because they'll feel guilty if something happens. It's not fair to them, either.   Stacey Simms  38:00 It's a good point. Yeah, it makes it easier for everybody. I always feel bad when people or kids are shy.   Linda Franklin  38:04 And it's an educational point to you know, you bring it up and didn't tell people I had a guy asked me the other day goes home. You got it bad.   Unknown Speaker  38:12 Yeah, you had the bad kind.   Linda Franklin  38:15 Okay, so we sat for about a half an hour after about the night school.   Stacey Simms  38:20 I just curious too, is anything ever happened? Where like it's popped off? Or somebody hit it with something? You know, My son has all sorts of crazy stories. Oh,   Linda Franklin  38:28 actually, no, I've been pretty lucky. I'll just you know, knock it off on a door jamb or something. But you know, that's happened a couple times. But other than that, I'm pretty careful   Stacey Simms  38:37 with a thanks so much. This was so fun. Thank you.   Linda Franklin  38:39 You've asked questions I've never been asked before. I love it.   Unknown Speaker  38:48 You're listening to Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  38:54 You can find more information on Linda and articles on her and find that picture that I mentioned with Rodney Miller and I will put that in the Facebook group as well. But you can find everything at Diabetes connections.com. Every episode has its own little little almost like a blog post. But every episode has its own page with a transcript as well. You can listen you could download the episodes. You can listen on any podcast player. I mean, at this point wherever there is audio on Stitcher, Pandora, Amazon, we're all over the place. You can find Diabetes Connections. Up next Tell me something good with a very devoted diabetes dad. But first diabetes Connections is brought to you by Gvoke Hypopen. Almost everyone who takes insulin has experienced a low blood sugar and that can be scary. A very low blood sugar is really scary. And that's where the Gvoke Hypopen comes in. It is the first auto injector to treat very low blood sugar. Gvoke Hypopen is pre mixed and ready to go with no visible needle. That means it's easy to use in usability studies 99% of people were able to give Gvoke correctly. I am so glad to have something new find More go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the G voke e shouldn't be used in patients with pheochromocytoma or insulinoma. Visit gvokeglucagon.com slash risk.   In Tell me something good This week I want to share with you this story. This is so adorable. I found this on Facebook and I think it do need to see the photo. So I'll link that up in the group as well. But I will describe it the best that I can. Let me read the caption first from Andrea and she says yesterday we went to Mayci's endocrinology office for our first of three pump training classes. Mayci was given the opportunity to put a trial failing pump on to get the feel of it and become used to it. She was a bit afraid and apprehensive at first. Now looking at this photo, I want to say Mayci is maybe three, maybe four. She is a preschooler, I know that much. And the pump that they're talking about is the Omni pod here. Andrea goes on to say, Daddy stepped up and volunteer to also get a trial sailing pump. He's not type one to help support and show me see it is no big deal. And this is the cutest photo of the dad right next to me see, and they're both showing off Omnipod on their arm. And she looks a little nervous. Still, you know, preschoolers are doing that smile, and they're a little nervous. But then it's got to be great to have her dad next to her doing that. Kudos. I think by the time this photo has posted the time has gone by maybe two weeks, and she may have already been live with the Omni pond pump. And I hope things are working out great. I tell the story in my book, the world's worst diabetes mom. But one of the things that made me the world's worst diabetes mom is that I never tried on any of the technology. I never, you know, I never tried to make Vinny feel less alone. It sounds terrible when I put it that way. But I never put on a pump instead, I never put on Dexcom several reasons why. First of all, we're so lucky Benny has been surrounded by friends with diabetes, since he was diagnosed. No, we didn't have anybody close to us. We didn't have any people in our town or our school until at the end of first grade. And he was diagnosed at two. But we didn't know people through jdrf. And we didn't know people that we could hang out with and see one of my best friends started a little diet buddies thing for little kids. So we always knew people who had the same tech on that he had. And the other reason I never did it is because I was so afraid that if it hurt me that I would never be able to put it on Benny again. And that's true. I was terrified that if a pump in set hurt or a shot hurt or late by the time I had Dexcom he was he was nine years old, it didn't really matter anymore. But if that hurt, I had hardened my heart in the way that you do in this terrible way that you have to do when you are doing medical things necessary things to your child. And boy that sounds so dramatic when I put it that way but I think a lot of you understand what I mean. And we had caregivers who did it for themselves just because they wanted to experience it and said oh it's no big deal. It'll be fine. I was never sure it would be no big deal. Is that interesting how we as parents do things so differently? But back to this fabulous dad if you have a Tell me something good story, you can always email me Stacey at Diabetes connections.com or just drop it in the Facebook group I every so often, and they are always such great story. So thank you so much. quick look at innovations this week a segment I added this year Sensionic holdings which is the company behind the eversense implantable CGM, they have announced they are filing for a supplement application to extend the wearable life to 180 days. What does that mean? It means Hey, the FDA is now considering letting the eversense CGM system expand 280 days in the US that is quick math six months. And that is up from the three months that it is currently allowed for, you probably haven't heard too much about ever since recently. And that's because honestly earlier this year, wasn't clear that they were going to make it with COVID. Everything else that had happened, it really seemed like the future of the company was in doubt. But they cut a deal with asensia diabetes care, which used to be part of Bayer diabetes. So very, very big company here, which I think is a good move for the ever since we've looked into it because with many wrestling and who knows what will happen with wrestling with COVID. But workouts are starting again pretty soon as I can't imagine they're doing actual wrestling. I'm guessing this is more just fitness workouts. But wrestling is a really tough sport for diabetes technology as you can imagine, because everything's fair game, so somebody could put their hands pretty much on you almost anywhere that you could put a Dexcom or a pump in set. So we've got a lot of great advice from people who've been there. And we've got lots of good methods but we are looking into ever since as a possible backup plan. It's weird to think about because you know, full disclosure here you know, we use the Tandem X to with control IQ which means we need the Dexcom G6 right now. So that kid could have the ever since under his skin and then the Dexcom has Well, not during wrestling season, I don't know what we're going to do. But as always, I will keep you posted on that. But if you have any news for innovations, and that does not have to be a big technology news story, it can be your hack your tip your trick for diabetes, please let me know as well.   I said a couple of weeks ago, this was going to be a very busy time in terms of news stories in the diabetes community always seems like fall has a lot going on. And that is definitely the case. podcasting is really hard for breaking news. But I do my best when something happens to kind of go more in depth and give you a perspective on it by talking to the actual players involved. So I hope you're in the Facebook group or follow me on social media, because that really is the best way to stay on top of what we're doing here. I don't mean to be cagey. But in terms of the timing of the podcast, there are a few things that I have that I've taped that I hope to release in the next two weeks. And as I'm talking to you here, as I'm taping this episode, I've got like three different news stories that I'm working on that I don't know, maybe they'll be old news by next week. So got to do the best we can with the weird time shiftiness of podcast, or maybe someday somebody will pay me to do a daily diabetes news show. If that's you, let me know. Ah, thank you, as always to my editor John Bukenas from audio editing solutions. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Stacey Simms. I'll see you back here next week. Until then, be kind to yourself.   Benny  46:28 Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Simms Media. All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged

Kanwar Gill graduated with a Master of Teaching from the University of Teaching and is an OCT certified teacher. He has been teaching for 10+ years, including being a Computer Science Teaching Assistant at the University of Toronto and tutoring students one-on-one. He has several years of experience as a software developer before transitioning to teaching. In this episode, Pouya sits down with Kanwar to talk about the impact of Covid on education and the path forward to a better future for education.   Kanwar's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/__kanwargill__/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/_KanwarG_ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkanwar/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript:----more----   Photo by Deleece Cook on Unsplash Music: Never Falter Written By Kevin Austin Graham Performed By Kevin Graham Produced By Kevin Graham   SUMMARY KEYWORDS students, parents, platform, teachers, learning, happen, education, school, kid, feel, online, big, home, uncertainty, impacted, situation, class, place, people, technology SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Kanwar   Pouya LJ  00:17 How's it going? Guys? How are you? Oh, pretty good. It's been a while we haven't had a podcast in I think a little over a year or about a year. I don't recall when it would leave.   Kanwar  00:28 So yeah, I think I should call it has changed a lot.   Pouya LJ  00:31 Yeah. And it feels long. Actually, I was thinking it's probably even less than a year. But you know, it feels much longer.   Kanwar  00:38 Yeah. Yeah, a lot has happened a lot for sure.   Pouya LJ  00:43 And, and a lot is going to happen, I reckon with the remainder of COVID with the US political, you know, weather election or whatnot. And who knows what else is 2020? Preparing for us?   Kanwar  00:58 Yeah, no, no, it's, it's, it's a pickle. It's kind of like not knowing what's going to happen, but just people still need to, you know, like, economy still has to go up. And it's, it's, I think it at this point, it kind of hinges on the vaccine, which we know a lot of companies are getting close to, hopefully, something will be done. And I think the vaccine would bring in some sense of peace and security for people as I go about, you know, their day to day tasks. True.   Pouya LJ  01:35 No, that's true, I think. I mean, until then, I don't I think that sense of uncertainty, as you put it is going to be, you know, having a lot of influence on on how people think and feel, and live decisions made politically by the officials. I mean, all of that are impacted by that sense of uncertainty. You're absolutely right. And with that, actually, that brings us to one of the fields that obviously, like everything was impacted by this phenomenon of COVID. But we're going to talk about today about education and how that's been impacted, because that's your wheelhouse. You've you work in that space, you read in that space, study, research, etc. So what I mean, obviously, a lot has changed. But if you were to, if you were to give us an intro to how education has changed, from your perspective, how would you describe it?   Kanwar  02:34 Um, good question. In terms of education, I mean, the instant need off, this is learning, online learning has skyrocketed, which has led to big changes in the industry. So you would have teachers, for example, in the public school, who probably don't, you know, they don't go towards online learning. But now they have no other option. And they have to, they have to get on it. And so that's one thing. Let's give me a second. Sure. So that's one thing for sure. That has changed. So you'd have these teachers who have to now understand how the online platform works. Zoom, for instance, you know, the US we're using zoom right now, for this podcast. We know how much the need for zoom instantly increased throughout the world. Right? Yeah. And not just in education, industry, but also in other from you name, small businesses, big businesses. Everyone has been using it. And that's a, that's a feel quite the nature of having something like COVID, which is an immediate, you know, like danger in a sense. We know that the death toll has now increased more than a million. So a lot has happened. And people you know, the second wave, as was announced by the Premier of Ontario, which has started officially. So, again, a lot of insecurity has led to online learning. That has been the biggest shift, in my opinion. And that's what I've seen as well. If you look at any sort of any sort of job postings, any sort of in the education field, any sort of hiring happening, there's some aspect of what you're learning attached to it now.   Pouya LJ  04:55 Oh, that's true. And I think a year ago, more than Have two people who are using the platform, let's say zoom currently haven't even heard of it. Yeah. And that shows you how much reliance it has. Because a lot of people who could work from home, they were working in offices perhaps and in different industries. Now, the the we're basically encouraged and forced to work from home. And while they are having to interact with each other holding meetings, perhaps, and how do you do that with tools such as Microsoft Teams, or, or Skype or zoom? zoom is one of the platforms is doing pretty great because of its quality and reliability, I suppose. And I believe that education, education, field also has came to embrace it, whether it's teachers from like holding their school classrooms at the end of the day. So at the end of last school year, which was the beginning of COVID, and lock downs, I suppose, in around March and April, I think everything had to move into online platforms, at least in Canada. Yeah. And I think, probably most of the world, I suppose, and, or halted, at least, depending on where you happen to reside. So did you did you have a first hand experience of how that affected students and teachers alike?   Kanwar  06:20 Um, definitely. So at the time, I was finishing my master's. Back in March, I mean, March, April, timeframe. And so I was working in a school at the time, as part of my program, doing some teaching, and also, you know, learning in that environment. And this was right, I got really lucky, actually. Because,   06:49 right,   Kanwar  06:50 before the March Break, is when I finished working in the school, and right, at the March Break, is when the premier made the announcement that the schools are not going to be opening again. So I didn't impact me, from that classroom experience point of view, I was able to have all of that done. But what happened is, schools did not go back after my trip. So they had it in, in theory, data, really extended mushrik now, and in this time, the, the province was figuring out what to do. Which means a lot of things were changing, right? So the parents, for instance, they couldn't, depending on where you work, employers were telling you to just work from home, parents were had to figure out how to do homeschooling. So there was no structure in place that Okay, these other resources, you can use, periods have to figure out, Okay, now I have to work my kid at home. And I was I also need to do my own work. So it's kind of like a pickle, right? That was a biggest change that happened. And I'm sure the students reacted a lot differently. Because now they're just home. Before there's something to look forward to, right in terms of going to school, they have this social circle, they interact, something to do outside of home, right. And that changed drastically for for everyone. And that was the immediate change that happened at the time. And that continued for a few weeks, before they decided they're not going to open the schools and online learning is the way to go. And at that point, teachers had to where they had to figure out in the current systems, a lot of teachers would be using Google Classroom. And there's another platform called Brightspace that is used, especially in the GTA area. And they have to basically figure out, Okay, now, you have to put everything on the platform so students can learn. And then some teachers decided to do online office offers where students could come in, ask questions, obviously, teachers would have started getting a lot of emails from the students now. Before that wouldn't be the case as much. So responding to that, I heard a lot of teachers in my own circle, who were definitely been bombarded with a lot going on. And it led to a lot of, you know, stress in terms of time management, okay. Like, there's the nine to five was blurry. It's not like you're working starting in the morning. It could be replying to emails in the in the evening. And you have to make sure you're supporting the students. So it was what it was. And that's how the school year continued. And now we have that's pretty much what happened during this summer. While the province was figuring out what to do with the entire city.   Pouya LJ  10:01 Right. Yeah. And so yes, that and that was probably the speed of onset uncertainty, that was the time of absolute uncertainty because we didn't even know what we're dealing with. Yeah, in terms of the virus in terms of how to and you were right, we, we didn't have resources in place, right. Like right now, there is a degree of preparation, even if the classes are in person, depending again, depending on where you are, maybe the classes are still online. But like, as of now, I believe nothing has changed. Because things changing very quickly, in Ontario, people are going in person with some consideration to schools, but there is a degree of preparation that schools, students and teachers, everybody has in their mind that they might even go back to fully online again, or right now, maybe part partially is online, like, for example, two things are happening online, most of it at least, at least as much as possible. So yeah, so there are the the speaking of uncertainty, that was the absolute of it, I suppose the or the maximum of it, as we experienced during these times. Now, we talked a lot about prospective teachers and parents and, and a little bit students. But did you did you hear any immediate feedback of how students were taking this? This this whole thing?   Kanwar  11:20 Yeah, it's, uh, you know, it's it's students for them, you could imagine that I'm just learning online, especially for somebody who was not engaging with technology or learning through technology. In the past, it was a big, big shift, right. And those students absolutely hated online learning, because part of it was doing something that was given to them through the online platform with their parents, and they absolutely hated working with the parents. Because they just want to get out of that kind of environment. And that was definitely a struggle, even at the time. I remember, Google Classroom, which is one of the big platforms, they even have a an app right on, depending on iOS, or Android. And at the time, back in March, April, and this was through North America, as far as I know. Lot of students started giving really poor feedback to that app on the App Store. So the actual star rating went down for Google Classroom. And students absolutely hated it. And that was, you know, quite evident of, Okay, what the students are feeling or they're feeling that this is something that is not a substitute for their experience, or the platform is just missing a lot, right? Like, I'm checking right now on on App Store, and Google Classroom has 160,000 ratings. And the rating that I see right now is 1.6, out of five. Oh, wow. So that's, yeah. And then this app is rated number one in education. So definitely, there's, I'm sure Google took a lot of that feedback, and started to make changes, because they're like, well, if students are really hating, they don't like how it feels. All that, but not to be honest, not much has changed the platform. So they just made minor changes. And students still feel the same. In terms of online learning. Currently, the students that are going to school, and parents realize that it's important for the students, you know, the kids to go to school, because even in the midst of COVID, as long as the safety protocols in place, right. And that's, you know, that's a good expectation to have. You can't rely on that expectation to be followed through entirely, right. So that's something it's it's you don't know what's going to happen. But you have good faith, and you're going to send your kid to the school. And that's what's happening. That's what happened when the schools open again in September, with safety protocols in place, but again, like I said, before, looks like and it's a little, again, create creates a bit of an E an ease, because what's happening again, is like, we feel the structure is missing. show their students in school, you know, the safety protocols, they say, but what's happening is if the students Feels a certain way, the teacher would typically just tell them that, okay, I can't I don't know what's going on. But you can be in the classroom. I see, though, what, what, what's happening now, speaking of today, what's happening now is, okay, we have a lot of influx of the students going to these COVID assessment centers and getting tested. Right, so the the, there's a influx, the load has increased, which means the testing before it was like, within one or two days has now moved to like five to six days. So, you know, and that is even upended by the second wave. But if ever, and added an experience recently, to check out a, you know, one of the COVID assessment centers, and in the line that I saw there, I would say more than 80% were parents with their kids. Wow. And that's just speaks to it. And I feel like that's, you know, it's, here's what's happening. So kids want to go to school. But if they get turned away for something, now, the kid is going to have a totally different experience, right? They're not in school, they're going to go through this COVID assessment center. And, you know, that's a whole different world, right? It's like something you wouldn't expect, that we kind of never went through that when we were their age. And for them to go through that. It's just I feel changes their whole entire perspective of their life and what, what, what is to come when they become an adult? Right. So that's, I think, one of the big changes that are happening for the students. This understanding the world we're living in, especially at the developmental age, right, where they don't really understand developmentally, what COVID means, how it affects everyone, they're, they're just kids they want to play, they want to have fun, right? We all went through that. And to to, to an extent, it's kind of unfair to see, okay, you know, what, they're missing on some things. But in the bigger picture, are we doing what we can to protect everyone around us?   Pouya LJ  17:16 Right? Yeah, no, that's, that's fair. And, yes, it is a bit unfair in that they have to, you know, deal with this through no fault of their own. And, you know, I, as you mentioned, especially as a younger age, where, when they're a little bit really not aware, or even care about what COVID is, they just want to do what they want to do and learn and grow and move forward. That's a fair point. Now, moving forward, do you? Do you see, so how do you see education, let's say a vaccine comes along, let's say the best case scenario, everything moves away? Do you see the education going back to what it was? And if not, what have we learned? What have you learned in this from from all of this? And how can we make education even better than the quote unquote, normal? How can we make it improved upon?   Kanwar  18:12 Right? So in terms of the education, a lot has changed, we've seen that in terms of, you know, the teaching platform, the experiences, what you're learning, one thing that I feel has been a, you know, big benefit of whatever is going on, is the fact that there, the need for collaboration has increased, which means you can collaborate easily on a global scale. Because everyone has a shared problem. So everyone wants to help each other out. So there are platforms, especially in the education field, you know, use certain platforms for say, you want to do an online quiz, you want to you want to have students create posters, there are platforms like canva.com or pictou chart that, you know, before COVID, they, if you had to use certain features, you have to pay for it. But what they did was they understood the need for helping everyone. And they read that entire fee on their platform. So as a teacher, you could just go there now.   Pouya LJ  19:22 And this again, is it can Canva canvas.com or, yeah,   Kanwar  19:26 cannot chart. There's another website called knowledge hook. Specific, specifically good for math in Ontario. And a lot of these platforms, you know, had some sort of features that a lot of features you get access to after you pay the premium, right. But they've waived that in the need off, helping each other out. And Nearpod was another platform that did that. And that was I felt a really good intention. Because you are adapting to this change. You're being flexible, and you are helping each other out. So these platforms, we're not really thinking from a monetary point of view, but really, from a point of view where they want to help the teachers out there. And that's what they did. And a lot of teachers made use of that. And I know for myself, I made use of it. Because I know for a fact that these premium features really give me a lot of flexibility of how I can create my content, how I can assess do assessments in the class. And that was a big, big shift. And so going back to your question, with education going forward, being flexible, or adapting to the change, even if you're not a person who likes change, and that was something that was, you know, in a sense, thrown at you, and you have to now change. So as a teacher, ensuring you know, you are flexible with whatever platform you're given. Now, obviously, look, we don't we can't have the experience you do in class, on an online platform. Okay. So that's something that would be different for sure. You can imagine from a, from a first day point of view, where you build class community where you build these relationships in the class, through the online platform, that would be way different. Okay, the student will still get to know you. But that relatability might not be to that personal level, as it would be in the class. Right, if you show care for a student in the class, they can see it, right? If you show care for a student and online platform, that means creating a safe environment, you know, not having any bullying or any foul language, and you can, there's tools that you can really control in the platform itself, to enable that, but like I said, you could have even face to face, like what we're doing with our video chats, and that would bring in some sort of relatability. But still, it's it's, as long as you don't see the person in actual life, you know, it's it's a whole different experience. And that's something that, you know, it's going forward, that's something that would be again, mixed together in like a hybrid model, to some extent, a lot of schools that have the resources they are doing in person, okay, we have private schools, independent schools, they have the resources, they have the funding. And they can, you know, create that six feet apart distance in the class, and also support students online at the same time, for the students who don't want to come to the class. For for other scenarios, such as public school system, that's a little different. Because what's happening now is more students, instead of coming to class, they want to just go online, because cases are rising again. So the need for online teachers of the game increased. And at the same time, we have teachers in class who are providing support. But again, like I said, the structure I feel is still not there completely, where the teachers are, you know, completely confident of being in the class and supporting the students in the class. Okay, so they still have that kind of uncertainty. And I feel going forward, that uncertainty will go down. Being that environment, it's natural for you to feel, you know, have that sense of being uncomfortable, because we don't have measures in place to protect against this, you know, novel coronavirus, and that will change going forward, there'll be more comfort in the class, eventually, there will be some sort of a hybrid model that will be put in place, obviously, online platforms will have changed drastically. Teachers will now not they will have if if ever they have to teach online, they wouldn't have. They will be there would be less resistance to that now. So that's another benefit. Technology definitely has. We, it's it's it's a perspective where a lot of, for example, teachers who would always say our technology has done this and this and this, you know, maybe having a negative point of view of what technology is doing. And now they see the benefits of technology that, you know, really makes a huge, huge difference. Right? If there was no technology learning would have stopped altogether. Right. And that's a that's a big, big benefit of living in this 21st century, even in the midst of a deadly virus. But you know, we have to tools in place that still make sure that we are connected and we don't lose contact and learning is still going on.   Pouya LJ  25:07 Yeah, it didn't. It. It helped to, you know, keep the momentum to a degree going, obviously, it, a lot of it got stopped and a lot of things got interrupted, for sure. But with a little bit of extra preparation and extra time. Yes, you're absolutely right. We got some of that momentum going. Online, he definitely online through technology. Yeah, absolutely. That's correct. And so speaking of So, I mean, obviously, the negatives are abundant and fairly obvious to degree, there were some that were not far off perhaps from somebody who doesn't have the perspective that you do. But nobody doubted that there is going to be a lot of negatives for students, teachers, the whole education system in the whole society, from every angle from this, but I honestly, I really like silver linings, I like to see things in a positive light and see what what positives actually came out of it. And part of it is what you said, We learned a lot, how we can mitigate technical use technology to mitigate the situation, whether this, and let's face it, who knows when the next pandemic hits, it could be 100 years, 200 years, it could be the next decade, it could be tomorrow, who hasn't seen after this. So point being we are living in a relatively new normal, even post vaccine, let's say there's going to be always that sense, at least for this generation that has experienced it. The sense that the immediacy of any kind of disaster, and how that can affect lives of people all around the world and education. So is there any positive we can take out of this? And and, you know, and improve upon it, make it better?   Kanwar  26:53 Yeah, definitely. Look. So with, we know, technology has been a benefit, we know that there are ways we can stay connected in terms of learning in terms of reaching out in terms of not losing contact, and that's a big, big benefit of in any industry for for that. And I feel going forward, one lesson that we have definitely learned is, you know, technology can really IID a lot of learning. In this case, it can actually even rip, to some extent it can replace, in class learning, and to a lot of extending can extend learning, right. So that replacement and extension is one thing. And again, everyone felt different with that. But the truth is, that is what technology helped us with. And we all feel really happy about that, because students are not like, they didn't feel that they're learning just stopped altogether. And that's one of the big lessons with, you know, this whole situation, how it has unfolded, we can still stay connected. Another big lesson, I would say is our reactions are adaptability to change. And that is something that you know, everyone has a different change threshold. Everyone can somebody can change. Within a day somebody can cheat it takes, you know, a year or two years to to make a big change. And with something like Coronavirus and with this whole situation. Now you don't have that flexibility to wait one or two years, you have to do it today. So it helped people push themselves. And you know, it's for some it would have been easy for some he would have been really challenging, but really walking through that. And really understanding Okay, this is for the betterment of the students, because in the education field, you always put the students first. They're at the center of everything that you do, and their needs come first. And that's really what it comes down to. Right. If you think about it from that lens. You know, I don't care about learning something new because I'm happy that and the students in my class are going to be not left behind. Right. And another big lesson with something like this, students now see, okay, the world is not full of bells and whistles its world is a nasty place to. And that's that is something that is you learn about in history, but now you're living it. And that's something that the students are experiencing for sure. And you know, there's a silver, big silver lining there because the students, the young generation, they have the capability to work in this industry where they can form solutions. There's a big, big research happening right now with the universal Right. And that's something that, you know, I'm I don't know how, what timeline we're looking at where this universal vaccine will exist for anything that would ever happen. You can imagine now, what was that ideology, we have these younger generation, who will, what, what's gonna happen is they will become more and more ambitious on, on taking on these challenges, and tackling these challenges because there's a immediate need, there's an actual need, it's not about making the world a better place. It's about protecting your world, it's about protecting and caring for the future generation, because the reality is, the virus impacts has impacted people across a whole different age group, right? It's initially was the older group, but now we have, we have seen trend where it's affecting everyone. And that's the bottom line. So everyone, if you think of it, from a humanity point of view, I feel like that's a big shift that will happen for the younger generation, because they would see the need, okay, you know, what, there is something out there and I can be part of the solution. Right, and not part of the problem. And that's, I feel it's a huge, huge silver lining in this whole situation. And I feel the students will really, and this is what we see all the time in the you know, we want to create citizens who are engaged, who are responsible, who are, you know, they want to make changes in their community, they want to make changes wherever they live, right, because change starts from your community, and then moves upward. But now, with the technology in place, you can really make a change through technology, and you can help each other out. So many possibilities has opened up. And that whole message of helping each other out and looking for each other looking out for each other. That's a big silver lining from this entire situation.   Pouya LJ  31:58 Yeah, that's very, very, very fair. And very positive. I liked the message. And I also want to for the last final point, I want to put the parents in focus, I suppose because I think from a very early on, especially, especially early on, and even now, you mentioned some of it, that they they're very engaged, very concerned, obviously about their children's education, their health and their family's health, etc. But on top of that, again, especially early on, and a lot of them still now have to enhance to, you know, handle the kids well, where previously they would send them to school, they would go to work themselves, now they have to work and at the same time, they have a kid at home and they're working at home or even if they're going outside to work if you're there, for example, first responders or what have you. Then what do you do with your with your child at home? Right, so that there has been a lot of challenges for parents. Obviously, the kids are not happy, they're acting up at times, they're, they're upset about the situation, you have to help them out. So there's there's, I think there were a lot of challenges coming our ways of parents more than ever before. Obviously, parenting is never easy. And number. Nobody ever said that. It's easy, but I think it was at a level up in the past few months. And I'm sure you had some experiences with the parents through their children that you're, you know, educating online or other ways. And did you have any? Do you have any words of I don't want to call it advice, but of consolation or anything that you want to talk to parents directly about or, you know, give them a message or give their message to us to the rest of us. Yeah.   Kanwar  33:49 One thing from I've just as a recent experience, where one of the parents, you know, that their child was sent back home, because their child was not feeling well. And, and the child shows up at home. And he says, mom, my stomach doesn't feel good, right? And my mother's like, What? Why doesn't few babies I got her. No, it doesn't feel good. And the mom said, Okay, did you go Did you poop this morning? And he said, No, I did not. And she like, do you have to poop? And he said, Yeah, I have to fuke and he goes to the washroom when it comes out and he's feeling finding starts playing outside. So the concern is in the air, okay. The concern is in the air. Now imagine from a kid's point of view, right kid, the kid is just being a kid. At their age, you know, they might have so many things going on, but we can't. We don't know for sure what we can pinpoint it on. Right. So there's that uncertainty from that point of view. And that applies to teachers. teachers could be concerned because they have kids at home. So the teachers who are parents, they are concerned, there's no simple answer to this, right? I can't, I can't say that no, if any, if somebody's feeling wonky, just let them be in the classroom. Because that I feel is, you know, we don't really know what it can be. And that would come down from the school, how the school is reacting to it, if the school says, okay, you know, this happens, it's okay, we can discount it. If not, then these are the policies we will have in place. Okay, and you follow that. And that's really what it comes down to is you'll have a consensus, everyone in the school agrees to what they're doing. And they have the parents on board. That's important, because the parents are not on board. Or, you know, it's not about putting parents on board, because you could have disagreements, but having ensuring the parents are communicated properly, so they know what's going to happen. And that will help parents really, you know, make arrangements to have to, because you don't The last thing you want is your kid showing up home and you have to go to work. Now. What are you going to do that? Right? It's a lot of uncertainty. You can imagine the pain on the parents behalf, like, what do I do now? And their frustration, right? their frustration with the school? Because they're like, okay, the schools open, and now you send my kid home, like, why would I send my kid to school, when something comes up, and you're gonna send it back to me. So if that was the case, I would have just kept mice tried at home. And that's really the unpredictability that we're seeing right now. Parents have to understand that if you're sending your kid to school, the intentions are, you know, the kid will get the opportunity to be in school in that environment. But there are a bunch of things that comes with it. And that's something that the whole family must be okay with. Because what happens if tomorrow, they say, the kid is having symptoms, and now you have to isolate? Right? The isolation 14 days, that means lost money, that could mean lost connection, it's so many things. And every situation is different, right? I can't I can't generalize it. Everyone have their own situation? And as a parent, if that's what you're deciding to do, you must have those things in place. Okay, what is my backup plan? What is plan? a? What is Plan B? If in the case that my child was to come home? Okay, can one parent be at home work remotely? Can we have those? some sort of a system in place? Or can have extended family? Can I give my kids to someone else? Who can take care? Or can I go, if I have a cottage, can we go to the cottage and isolated the cottage, a lot of those. Those are the important things that have to be thought before you make the decision of sending your child to school because I've have seen parents where they just get frustrated with the whole situation, because they had not expected the child to be sent home. Right. So you have to be prepared for that. And for parents, who are first responders, parents who are in the line of work where they protect people, you know, it's it comes down to what you decide as a parent. But the bottom line is this, we know the virus is deadly, we know the virus, you know, it's still out there, it's not completely gone off the face of the planet. So you have to keep in mind that we are living in a new world, which means that the kids still have to go to the school, they still have to do some sort of learning. But Add to that the fact that we are living in a different world now. Okay, so that's something because it could happen. And I've seen even for myself, where, you know, you can start to get more and more complacent in terms of Okay, you know, what, I don't see much going on around me. So I think I'm okay. You know, and but that's looking at your local lens. But if you really look at the global what's going on. Again, that is not the case. Right? And we have to always keep in mind that okay, we are living in a new reality. And this is what I want. These are my goals. I want my kid to get some learning, can I can I send my kid to school, knowing that they can be asked to be tested? And that means going to code center and you know, that's another four to five hours you have to wait in line. Am I ready to do that? Or am I rather me rather okay with not sending my child to school, having them stay at home and learn? And do I have something in place where someone else is at home? With the child right? So those Are the those are the two situations that all the parents are really dealing with right now, in addition to their own full time, whatever they do. So it's not easy. It's not it's definitely made parenting, I would say 1000 times more challenging.   40:17 And   Kanwar  40:18 especially when you have both parents as working, imagine both parents as first responders, it just changes a whole whole scenario what to do now. And that's really, I feel the pickle. But really, having those goals sorted out would make it much, much easy, manageable, in a sense to tackle with, okay, if this can happen, okay, that's, that's okay. Because we have something in place to manage that. Because that would bring a sense of comfort, less frustration. And at the same time, you know, the learning will go on. And that's really should be the goal, right, the learning will go on, and the learning should never stop.   Pouya LJ  41:02 Yeah, and let's hope that and let's hope everything improves, not regress, I suppose that's, that's all we can do. We can basically, this is a situation we have to deal with, at the end of the day, whether we like it or not, and that's a nobody likes it. And some have it worse than others, of course, yeah. And some have it better and, but at the end of the day, all of us have to deal with something new that mostly we don't want to exactly our ideal, but that's life. And then things happen. Obviously, we want to be proactive about these things and make sure they don't happen in the first place. But we also want to be prepared for the possibility of them happening. And that's the lesson we should carry on, I think, moving forward. But at the same time, we're not done with this. And we have to think about all aspects. And and I think one of the things that helps me a lot to deal when I'm dealing with other people especially is that I put myself in their shoes and understand their pain. And that helps me generate some empathy that otherwise I would not be able to where I would judge them harshly. Definitely unnecessarily. So yeah, let's let's hope for the better. And thank you, camera for joining us for this illuminant illuminating conversation.   Kanwar  42:12 Thank you for having me. It's great to have this really important discussion and the world we live in right now.

Welcome! Good morning, everybody. I was on WTAG this morning with Jim Polito.  He had a few questions about VPNs, seems like it is a little confusing for people to understand that they were designed for something completely different than what people are using them for today and that is where the problems are coming from. Then I broke some big news about the Federal Register changes and DOD contractors and sub-contractors that went into effect last night at 5 pm. Then we got a little light-hearted with a brief discussion about Love and Zoom. Here we go with Jim. For more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com ---  Automated Machine Generated Transcript: Craig Peterson: [00:00:00] So that it can be hooked up by any technician to read what's going on. And to at least clear it, if not adjust it. Now, the opponents of this are saying, Hey, wait a minute. Now, do we really want backyard mechanics getting their hands on the software on the internal runnings of our car? Jim Polito: [00:00:22] Yeah. Craig Peterson: [00:00:23] Hey everybody. We got to talk about a couple of cool things this morning. Craig Peterson here. I was on with Mr. Jim Polito. We talk about a new law, actually, it is on the ballot. It is initiative one in Massachusetts, where it is an augmentation to another law that passed, The Right to Repair. We may do another segment on it. Jim talks a little bit about this, cause just can you cover in 10 minutes. Then also a little bit about Ring's latest security device. So here we go with Mr. Jim Polito Jim Polito: [00:01:00] One of my favorite days of the week, just because of who visits. Our good friend and tech talk guru. Craig Peterson. Good morning, sir. Craig Peterson: [00:01:13] Hey, good morning. That is so kind. I appreciate that. Jim Polito: [00:01:17] Come on, come on. You offer a great segment and you help an awful lot of listeners here. That's why I want to do two things today. Cause I know we're going to eat up all the time, just doing these two. One of them is the right to repair. Question one. If I were to look at what do I get the most questions about emails and messages, it would question one. Second, I want to talk about Rings' latest security camera, the drone. Oh my God. That's crazy. So let me just say, folks. I will do this as the deep tease, the drone flying around your house to keep your house secure. I mean, now that's something I would buy. But let's start off with the right to repair. Okay. Many people it's the 2020 Massachusetts question one. It's a ballot initiative. It's looking to augment the right to repair. Now I gotta tell you I'm voting. Yes on this. Okay. But when I see the commercials against this, they are highly deceptive. That's my opinion. Let me see now if the brilliant man agrees with me and that is Craig Peterson. All right, sir. Go ahead. The floor is yours, Craig Peterson: [00:02:48] Go for it. Right? Yeah. This is a very, very interesting problem. We've got an article this week. In fact that I put into my newsletter, that everybody got about Elon Musk in Elon's coming out with another car. He says here within the next three years, that's going to be a $25,000 electric car from Tesla that's fully autonomous. Now I brought that up because that's kind of the extreme. These electric cars run entirely on software. Well, of course, there are mechanics, right? There are electric motors in them, but Jim, these things are software. How do you repair software? That's really what it comes down to, nowadays. You've got a computer. For decades, Jim, you bought a computer, Microsoft came out with a new version of the operating system. It required a faster machine, more disc space, more memory. Every time there was a new release of Windows you had to buy a new computer. Jim Polito: [00:03:51] Right? Craig Peterson: [00:03:51] We know on the Samsung-side and the Android-side, your phone only gets updates for two years. That's at best. Some phones have only had updates for three months. So, what do you do when the car company decides it's not going to support it anymore? It's not going to give you updates, right? Or what happens now? When the car company says, yeah, we can fix that. It's only a $4,000 and all they do is hook it up to their computer. It uploads some software. The problem is gone. In reality, it took them less than five minutes, right. That I think is what it boils down to. Jim Polito: [00:04:31] Okay. So I understand that I have a neighbor, one of the guys who lives across the street has a Tesla.  The mechanic comes to his house in a vehicle and works on his vehicle. You're right,. Mechanically, there aren't as many things in that vehicle. You got a suspension. You've got internal things, power windows, all that stuff, those types of things. There are mechanical things that could break, the wipers, all of that, but right. The thing that usually breaks the most, mechanically, the engine is just software. There is an engine and it runs off a battery. But it's not as complex as an internal combustion engine. Craig Peterson: [00:05:16] No, it needs electric motors that are in the Teslas and these other cars are designed to last a million miles. Now the batteries won't. That Tesla won't. You're only good for your Toyota Prius or your Tesla for maybe a hundred thousand miles. Although Elon Musk is working on that. We'll see he's coming out with a million-mile battery, supposedly, which would just be incredible. But what do you do now? You've got people in the Midwest. You've got farmers who have tractors. You buy anything, nowadays, your Harley that you buy. Jim Polito: [00:05:52] Yeah. Craig Peterson: [00:05:54] You're out riding has computers on board. That's been true for quite a while. And so the Federal Government mandated a port in your car that is standardized so that it can be hooked up by any tech nation to read what's going on and to at least clear it, if not adjust it. Now the opponents of this are saying, Hey, wait a minute now, do we really want backyard mechanics getting their hands on the software on the internal runnings of our car. Jim Polito: [00:06:27] Yeah. Craig Peterson: [00:06:28] Because it is their car. We haven't even answered the question of who's liable for an accident when a car is in the autonomous mode. Right?  It's the manufacturer is the one that's liable. Should we really allow even a trained service tech to make adjustments that might be outside the specifications that the manufacturer set for the car. There still are so many questions here, Jim, it just kind of blows my mind you to get down to it. Then there's one more point, which is that Tesla you buy this year may actually be a better car next year because Tesla is continually coming out with updates and releases and downloading into the vehicle. So your car can actually get better and even more valuable as time goes on, as new features are added.  If you're messing with that software and you install it, you got problems. We've got a saying, I do manage security services, that's what I do. the thing is whoever touched the computer last owns the next problem. Jim Polito: [00:07:43] My mother had a philosophy like that with things in the house too. Craig Peterson: [00:07:47] Yeah. So whose fault is it, when something goes wrong? If people have been tinkering with it. It's one thing to maybe replace an electric motor. We've had issues even with these inkjet printers, they'll give you a printer for free because the ink costs an arm and a leg. They put into the ink cartridges, little computers to track whether or not this is an unofficial cartridge. Your printer won't work with an official cartridge that we overcharged for. Jim Polito: [00:08:15] All right. I want to make sure we get the Ring in. So the bottom line is. What am I doing with question one? I mean, if Tesla is going to continue to update the software in their vehicles, are we saying they're going to charge for it if they do. We're saying that my local mechanic can't do that. Craig Peterson: [00:08:35] Yeah. Well, again, does your local mechanic have the actual capability, the ability to manipulate the software in such a way that it retains it's security. It's integrity. If by opening it up to the local mechanic, or we now opening it up to maybe state-run bad actors that are out there that want every Tesla in the country to crash on September 11th. Potentially, a big deal. I think that there's another idea. Example of the law, trying to get ahead of technology, and these lawmakers really just trying to make a bit of a name for themselves, right? It's not a big problem yet and there's too many unresolved. All right. We, you know what, I think we need to do a segment on this alone because we need more time to go through this.  I think I need to bring you back on a day when we're not doing the regular segment and do that. Jim Polito: [00:09:28] But meanwhile, as the clock winds down, I need to hear about this, the Ring - drone,  the new always-on home cam. An autonomous drone that can fly around your house. That's going to drive pops crazy when we're not home, you know. I don't know if he's going to like that. He just may be able to jump up and get it. Craig Peterson: [00:09:51] You might want to take the lasers off of it. It doesn't like zap pops. Jim Polito: [00:09:57] So wait a minute. Tell us quickly what this is. We've only got about two minutes. Craig Peterson: [00:10:02] Here's what it is. This thing's expected to cost about 250 bucks and the calling of the always home cam. What this is, it looks like a T the letter T capital T in fact, and it has motors in it. Obviously, it has little fans and the camera itself is down at the bottom of the T and it's in a charging station. So if it's not flying that camera's not going to work it, can't sit there and monitor you. The idea behind this is if anything happens if any of the other Ring sensors detect something or even on a regular interval, it's going to fly around the house is fully autonomous mode as well. You can tell it where you want it to go, and it's going to give you viewpoint and it's going to record stuff. If it hears a window smash, it's going to go have a look and it's going to be streaming the video. that video will be stored online and you can see exactly what's been happening. Jim Polito: [00:10:59] That is cool. Now that's something I can go for. I'll tell you what my mother-in-law has. One of the autonomous vacuums, I helped her to set it up, which I thought was very cool. You know, for our house, that thing would get a hernia with all the hair that the dog is shedding. For my inlaws, it's perfect. It just takes off at a certain point, cleans up vacuums. This picks up this thing. Yeah. This thing sounds great and we're going to have to talk more about it in the future. Alright, Craig, I did have a question. A gentleman from Boston, Joe from Boston wanted to ask you about five G, and I don't have time to get to him. Craig Peterson: [00:11:39] Yeah Jim Polito: [00:11:40] How can he reach out to you or send a message and try to get some kind of an answer in between segments. Craig Peterson: [00:11:48] Well, I'm always available at me. M E @craigpeterson.com. You can just drop me an email, anytime me@craigpeterson.com. Remember I have a busy schedule, so it might take me a couple of days to get back to you, but I always do. Jim Polito: [00:12:04] You heard that Joe, me at Craig Peterson, which is spelled P E T E R S O N, but that is the Canadian pronunciation, even though Craig Peterson is all red, white, and blue. He's still got a maple leaf in there somewhere. Correct? Listen, this was a great segment. Very interesting. And again, I'm going to, I'm going to reach you offline and we should talk more about this, cause that's fascinating about Tesla software, it's basically turning a car into a laptop and who's going to give you the updates. I find that very, I find that very, very interesting. So, Mr. Peterson, always a pleasure and I hope folks listened to your show Sundays at 11 o'clock. And then it is dropped into the schedule on at other points on the weekend at times. So a great, great show. And then we look forward to talking with you next time. Craig Peterson: [00:13:00] All right. Thanks, Jim. Take care. Jim Polito: [00:13:02] Thank you. All right. When we return a final word, you're listening to the Jim Polito show, your safe space. ---  More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

For All Abilities – The Podcast Liz De La Torre - A Successful Nursing Career with ADHD   For this episode of For All Abilities: The Podcast, I spoke with Liz De La Torre - one of my son’s nurses. She talks about her nursing career and ADHD.  To connect with Henry, please email her at liz.torre60@gmail.com.    Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening!  Betsy     Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today!    Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it!   Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com   Follow me   Twitter: @betsyfurler   Instagram: @forallabilities   Facebook: @forallabilites   LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler   Website: www.forallabilities.com   Transcription by Otter.ai   Betsy Furler  0:05   Welcome to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody. This is Betsy, your host for all abilities. Thank you so much for joining me today on my podcast. This podcast is meant to inspire everyone to use all of their differences as their strengths. And we frequently talk about neuro diversity and how it's so important to have different brains in this world. Today I have a special guest, Liz della toray hopefully I said that correctly, Liz, please introduce yourself to my audience.   Liz de la Torre  1:05   Hi, I'm Liz de la Torre. And I am 60 years old. I've been a nurse for 37 years. And I have been ADHD actually since I was 21 years old. So 49 years 39 long time.   Betsy Furler  1:24   Awesome. And we met, um, because you have been my son, Henry's nurse, several multiple times. And we got started talking and I was so glad that you agreed to be on the podcast. And so I guess I gave people a little bit of a teaser that you're a nurse professionally, but we'll get to that in a minute. And so tell us what were you like when you were a little girl?   Liz de la Torre  1:48   So when I was little, I went to Catholic schools and it was just strict girls school nuns only, and I never could sit still back then there wasn't a day diagnosis of and so I was always getting spanked, pinched ears cold, you got ants in your pants, that kind of situation. And I would try, you know, super hard to just sit down and pay attention but I couldn't because I was my mind was going elsewhere and I needed to get up. So it was that kind of thing. I'm home. It was pretty. I had an older brother. He was nine years older than me and it was kind of like, he was also in a private school. But he would poke at me, I think, I guess he knew, you know that something. I couldn't sit sit still or whatever it was that he would always poke at me and get me in trouble with my parents. Especially. Yeah,   Betsy Furler  2:52   you spent a lot of time in trouble. It sounds like   Liz de la Torre  2:55   I did. I did and it was like, as hard as I would try. Boom, you get it.   Betsy Furler  3:02   Right, you just couldn't make your body do fit into the box of what they wanted you to how they wanted you to behave. Correct. So what about when you got on to middle school in high school?   Liz de la Torre  3:16   Okay, so middle school and high school the same kind of situations with the nuns. And, you know, once you're in middle school, there was it wasn't like we have normal schools now I kind of just float into the next one and then it flowed into high school. But it was pretty much the same thing. grades, I could make super good grades without even studying. But if I didn't care to do it, I would just kind of you know breeze through it because like I said, My mind was going 50,000 miles a minute, and I didn't understand what was the deal. Why didn't everybody else think in speed version like I did.   Betsy Furler  3:57   Did you go to the same school for 12 years or were you did you move at each different level?   Liz de la Torre  4:04   So much amount Sacred Heart, which was the elementary school and I went there through sixth grade. And then seventh grade at Incarnate Word. This was in San Antonio Incarnate Word open their seventh and eighth grade. So that's where I went seventh through 12th grade.   Betsy Furler  4:23   Okay. Okay, so it's kind of same feeder pattern, so to speak, but different schools. So, what did you think? Well, let me ask you about homework, first of all, because I, as I've interviewed so many people, homework seems to have been a big issue for people, lots of people with ADHD. How did you do with homework?   Liz de la Torre  4:44   No, my homework I had was impeccable. I would, I would do it all the time. And I wanted my homework to be perfect. It had to be. I actually we were laughing the other day at work. Because, um, my grandmother taught me how to write and she would take erasers off the big pencils. Well, my brother came home one day and he was bothering me. I was writing my ABCs and he said, What are you doing? Then I kept saying, I'm writing, I'm writing and he pushed my arm so my pencil went across the paper. Ultimately, I was ruining my paper. The man died with the red mark in his in his eye.   Unknown Speaker  5:26   Literally.   Betsy Furler  5:27   Hey, I think a lot of us have scars still from pencils been poked out. Yeah, he definitely deserved that. And well, that's interesting about the homework. So why do you think the homework was easier for you to concentrate on than the schoolwork?   Liz de la Torre  5:45   I don't know. Maybe it was maybe it was because I was in my own environment. Maybe it was because somebody wasn't telling me constantly your back your or pinching at me or poking at me or doing something to me. Maybe that's what it was. I really don't know.   Betsy Furler  6:03   Did you do homework in silence? Or did you have like background noise and things like that?   Liz de la Torre  6:09   No, I always had to have and looking back on it now. I've always had to have some kind of noise. Music mainly going on background.   Betsy Furler  6:20   I went homework versus in the school setting.   Unknown Speaker  6:25   I never thought about it.   Betsy Furler  6:29   That's interesting. So after high school, what did you do?   Liz de la Torre  6:32   So I went to college, um, high school was a blow off. It was a party time for me. And so when my parents were moving from San Antonio, they both retired when I graduated. And oddly enough, they were moving from San Antonio to Houston to retire. Um, so I wanted to stay in San Antonio because I had just gotten a new little boyfriend and all that good stuff. So my main focus, my main thing is I told my dad, I want to go to college. And he looked at me like, it was extremely demeaning. And he said to me, You need to marry one of our rich friend sons. Why would you go to school, college after high school? And I was like, because, you know, high school to me, a C and A d when I got in high school, that was great. I was passing   Unknown Speaker  7:21   too bad. Right? Right. So   Liz de la Torre  7:23   he looked at me and he said, Okay, I'm gonna let you stay. one semester. What do you want to be? A nurse just popped into my head, and I said, and he said, a nurse, you want to be a nurse? I said, Yeah, I want to be a nurse. So he said, Okay, one semester, we're gonna see how it goes. So he got we got an apartment. I had a car, paid for my school. Dean's list for five semesters.   Betsy Furler  7:55   Wow. Where did you go to nursing school.   Liz de la Torre  7:58   I went to see Antonio College for the first two semesters because I think he wanted to see if his money was gonna be spent or not. And then I went to UTSA. And so, at the end of that, it was time it was gonna be time to go into nursing school because I'd gotten all my, you know, I gotten all my academics and stuff down. And so he and my mother came down. And this is a this is about when I went to and I got diagnosed. And they asked me, my dad asked me, so do you like your apartment? And I was like, Yes. Do you like your car? Well, yes. And finally, he looked at me like I was some kind of dumbbell. And he said, Do you like to eat? I said, Well, yeah, of course I do. And he said, then you're gonna have to get a job. Like, get a job for why he said, Well, if you want to stay in Houston, San Antonio, you're gonna have to pay for all your stuff. Or you can come to Houston. And I was like, Are you serious? He said I am. So I had to pack up and I came to Houston and during a physical for enlisted in a during a physical for nursing school. That's when it came up about because I started noticing in math and statistics I could memorize, like series of numbers and keep it. Uh huh. And it was like, What do you call it when you can? Like photographic memory, I can do it. My son can do it, oddly enough, too. But it was eat. That's what a nursing school was extremely easy because I could read the testing material the night before, go to sleep. Wake up and I could see the page. So it was like, great. There it is. But they did diagnose me at the time. It was something before Adderall that they gave me. I forgot what it was. But it started making me calm down. But what it really did is it made me be able to put things like in sequences so I could understand stuff.   Betsy Furler  10:12   I went through I said, I said before you were kind of you had a great memory so you're able to just regurgitate that material. Correct? Excuse me, but not necessarily and comprehend and, and synthesize everything together.   Liz de la Torre  10:28   I think I could I Well, I'm sure I could comprehend because of my grades and everything. But what I started to do is I think it was things that really interested me that I can stop for a minute and pay attention. And there you go, there it is.   Betsy Furler  10:50   Yes, and I think nursing is such a great career for people with ADHD because it's so it's fast paced, and then it's always something different. You know, Like you have all these different patients with all these different conditions, having, you know, in your current job setting different, you know, different treatments being done. So, it's got to be more exciting than some other, you know, a desk job or whatever. Right. So after you were diagnosed, what kind? what difference did that make for you?   Liz de la Torre  11:23   It's almost as Um,   Unknown Speaker  11:27   so   Liz de la Torre  11:29   I could concentrate more. I could effectively do things like so. When I would stay when I go to start cleaning a house, I'd be in the kitchen. Then I would go to Oh, I remember there's there's a glass in the bathroom. Let me go get it did not start cleaning the bathroom, you know, and it was like, and then the   Unknown Speaker  11:51   planes   Liz de la Torre  11:51   cracked in the bathroom, you know, it just wasn't completed. So once I started getting medicine, it was like, I could Concentrate and know I can't go there. I need to stay here and complete this task. Uh huh. Was it? You know, Betsy, when I'm thinking about it with work, I could complete stuff. And I don't know. I don't know. Maybe like I said, maybe it was just because there was a big interest there. Right.   Betsy Furler  12:21   Right. warehouse workers say is boring anyway. It's   Liz de la Torre  12:25   not a big interest. Right? Yeah.   Betsy Furler  12:30   So how did it help your self esteem to be diagnosed? Or or did it did it help?   Liz de la Torre  12:37   I think as far as my self esteem, I don't. I don't think it helped that. I think it helped me understand that. When I was a little kid, I really wasn't a bad kid. I just really couldn't sit still. There's just too many things going on and I was just wired different.   Betsy Furler  13:00   It kind of explained it. You were able to understand yourself better. Probably correct. Yeah. So then after you got out of out of nursing school, where did you What do you didn't end up doing?   Liz de la Torre  13:12   So when I was first a nurse, I became, it was an odd year. So I graduated nursing school. I got married. I got I got pregnant, and I passed my boards. Wow. Yeah. Easy year. Yeah. And so my first job was at Methodist and in labor and delivery, and I really loved it really, really loved it. But once again, when I got pregnant, I quit taking my medicine. So I was learning about labor and delivery. And I couldn't I couldn't grasp how to how to figure out how many centimeters do they dilated because it's kind of like I was concentrating on too many things. They're finally it snapped, I got everything. And it just kind of like all fell into place. When it happened, you know, once I started understanding, but now I was really having to control my thoughts because and you know, in my mind because it was racing. Mm hmm. There was nothing to settle it down. So it was kind of like me having to talk me down. Interesting because once I kind of, I guess I got a taste of the good, or the right wife, you know how it's really supposed to be? Uh huh. And then when it got taken away from me when I got pregnant, it was like, Oh, no, here we go again. Mm hmm. But now I think I was getting I was like, 24 now 20 Yeah. 24 And so now, I was kind of getting used to or starting to understand how to talk through it and in with me in my mind. And yeah, kind of like myself,   Betsy Furler  15:05   you were able to coach yourself through it this summer. So how do you think that HD has hindered you and then also helped you in your career?   Liz de la Torre  15:20   So, I can't, I really can't see that it's hindered me so much. Because I've done a lot in my career. I was the nurse have been taught in the emergency room. Um, and you know, there, you're having to triage excitement. Yeah. I know, you know, you're having to triage and you're having to keep stuff. This goes here and this goes there. And so I think it really helped me. A lot of and after that a lot of my jobs. They've been, like the nurse manager for home health, always with infusion. Mm hmm. I've always had to, you know, once again, triage what's important who's got to be seen. Where are we going? What part of the city? And then if there weren't nurses, I had to, you know, I'd have to jump in and go see patients. Mm hmm. And then come home and do my come back and do my desk job. So it was, I can't say it's hindered me.   Betsy Furler  16:21   It sounds like it sounds like nursing, you somehow just fell into a job that's perfect for you.   Liz de la Torre  16:31   I think so. I mean, it's always like, like you said, it's a fast pace. Everybody's different, you know, from what we're treating now. As opposed to you know how it was before when we were doing home health. there was all kinds of antibiotics off TPN the total parental nutrition stuff I used to I was one of five in the city who used to put picc lines in at the very beginning when picc lines came out. Uh huh. So that was kind of cool because you get called, you know, can you go do a picc line,   Betsy Furler  17:04   blah, blah, and you go, right, right. And then that was also probably kind of good for you. I know with myself, I'm not diagnosed with ADHD, but I definitely like a variety of different activities. And if I had a desk job, it's kind of what I'm doing now, because I'm doing everything from home. But then occasionally, I'll get to go do something. And it's like, just having that change of scenery occasionally, I think is so helpful for just not getting bored and refocusing and everything.   Liz de la Torre  17:36   Correct. And I think if I would have had to stay home in the midst of it and when it first started all this the COVID I don't think I would have done well. I would have gone nuts. Yeah, because it was just   Betsy Furler  17:52   Yeah, that's a great topic to discuss here because we are still you know, most of us are still staying home. You've gotten to go to work or had to Get to work however you want to frame that. And yeah, so, um, let's talk a little bit about COVID and stay at home. How do you think you? What do you think would have happened if you had to stay at home and you weren't an essential worker?   Liz de la Torre  18:17   Well, I know what happened on the weekends.   I frequented the garden center and Lowe's almost every Saturday and Sunday and have a nice garden outside. I just couldn't do it. I wouldn't be able to just stay home. Uh huh.   Betsy Furler  18:37   Well, that's awesome. much weight. I've lost 25 pounds over the stay at home order because I started walking and then subsequently running because I can't stay in my house all day, every day and on the you know, it's like when there's nothing else to do. It's like at least I can walk around the neighborhood. Oh,   Liz de la Torre  18:57   yeah. I couldn't do it. wouldn't have been able to do it.   Betsy Furler  19:02   Yeah, that's really interesting. My husband also has ADHD. And he's also considered essential because he's in construction and as a general contractor, and I think it's saved. It's saved him. I think he would have he, you know, it's been very hard on him anyway. And I think it really would have been awful if he wouldn't have been able to get to work at all.   Liz de la Torre  19:23   That's correct. That's so right. Yeah. Oh, my God, it would have been dreadful.   Betsy Furler  19:31   And he probably would have driven everyone around you crazy.   Liz de la Torre  19:35   I would have my husband is one that can sit on the couch and watch TV. And it's like, how can you do that? Do you not have a bedsore yet?   Oh my god.   Betsy Furler  19:50   So and it seems like at the infusion center that y'all have stayed pretty busy the whole time that it hasn't really changed workload or anything.   Liz de la Torre  20:01   We got a little slower than we are right now only because of the chairs. Oh,   Betsy Furler  20:08   that was it. Essential distance between the chairs. Right, right.   Liz de la Torre  20:12   We should really have like, I think it's 18 or 19 chairs right now. But, you know, we're only using 13. Yeah, in a pinch, it's really should be 12. But in a pinch, we have another one. But we've stayed busy and we're getting super busy right now.   Betsy Furler  20:32   And that's also great for the patients because one of my big fears when all of this was starting was that Henry wasn't going to be able to get as big. And, you know, it was like, it really scared me. So I'm just so thankful that that it's the infusion center has stayed open, and it's been he's gotten his infusion every three weeks just like normal work. Yeah, I was so nervous that first time he went In about what it was going to be like, what, how many things was he going to touch between the front doors and hitting the infusion center? About the infusion center itself because, you know, I know how clean and careful y'all are. But I was worried about how many things he might touch on the way in and, but I now know that it's like, pretty, it's pretty streamline. There's nobody else in the elevator for the most part. And it's been great. So I'm so thankful that he's that, that y'all have kept on working and he's been able to get his infusions.   Liz de la Torre  21:35   And I'm so happy to see that he does bring scout with them, because then he can have the private room. Right? That's, that's the benefit. And that's a good thing, although we all love Scout, but the good thing is, he can stay in his room. Right? He can watch TV or he can do whatever he pleases, and I sneak in snacks and that's how it goes.   Betsy Furler  22:00   Yeah, it's been great. It's it's been his one thing one time to get out of the house too.   Unknown Speaker  22:05   So, right.   Betsy Furler  22:07   Well, Liz, thank you so much for being a wonderful guest and telling us your story and may and might inspire other people to look into nursing as a career if they have ADHD.   Liz de la Torre  22:19   I enjoyed it. I mean, it's been 37 years and I've never regretted   Betsy Furler  22:24   a damn. And it's a that does, you can do all sorts of different things like you are studying move on to move on to another one. So and how and   Liz de la Torre  22:36   when you think Ben Toby er has finally weighed on your mind. Go? Yeah, right. Next place.   Betsy Furler  22:44   One of our another one of our favorite nurses is actually working in benchtop er right now she was. She was the nurse that really saved Henry's life when he had his big psychotic event with autoimmune encephalitis. She was a ER nurse. At the hospital that we went to, and he totally saved to his she took a boy's life. And now she's been havin she's really enjoying the fast pace over there right now to Uh huh.   Liz de la Torre  23:13   Oh, Sam.   Are you talking about Sam?   Betsy Furler  23:18   No, um, no, her name is Lacey. Okay, so she's Yeah, so she was at Memorial city Memorial Hermann, when Henry had his big events, and he sat with him and when he was psychotic, she was she and I were the only people that could keep him calm. It was about her. I guess it was miraculous.   Liz de la Torre  23:41   Yes. He told me she saved his life.   Betsy Furler  23:44   Yeah, she did. She's She's incredible. And oh, my goodness, nurses have been really so important throughout his life. So important. And I know he wouldn't be here without so many nurses that we've covered. Across over the years, so But she's ever been to VR and she's really like, it's I think she's thriving even through all this COVID stuff. I think she's happy to be there and in the chaos,   Liz de la Torre  24:14   I think it can be really rewarding.   It really can, you know, it's got its crazy moments. And then you've got your moments where you say, What am I doing here? But there's a lot of good things about it, that there's so many people that you can help there.   Betsy Furler  24:32   Well, in one, we met a doctor who works at Ben Tom at an autoimmune encephalitis event that we went to about a year ago. And he was telling me, he said, you know, it's the best place to be when you have something like autoimmune encephalitis, because we don't have to worry about what your insurance is going to pay or not pay. That's true. Go for it. And I was like, Yeah, that's a good that's. I hadn't ever thought of it that way. Because of course, It's so scary to have to go to a county hospital and be in the midst of all of that. But I thought, wow, that that is true. That is very, very true.   Liz de la Torre  25:10   So soon as you get your diagnosis, and as soon as you are stable, get out, right.   Tell my insurance card. Here you go.   Betsy Furler  25:21   Yeah. Thank you so much for joining me. And if people want to connect with you, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?   Liz de la Torre  25:28   Um, you can always use my email. It's a Liz.torre60@gmail.com.       Betsy Furler  25:40   Awesome. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for being here.   Liz de la Torre  25:45   Okay, and thank you.   Unknown Speaker  25:47   Thank you, audience for listening in please.   Betsy Furler  25:51   Like, share, and review rate my podcast on whatever podcast app you're listening to. This on. Please follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. It's f u r le AR, or on Facebook at for all abilities also on Instagram and Twitter at for all abilities. And thanks for tuning in. And please join me again next week for my next interview. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do in our software that helps employers support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities.com You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. f as in Frank, you are le AR Have a great day and we will see you soon

Show Resources: 2020 Social Media Industry Report SME's Facebook Summit Social Media Marketing Podcast LinkedIn Learning course about LinkedIn Ads by AJ Wilcox: LinkedIn Advertising Course Contact us at Podcast@B2Linked.com with ideas for what you'd like AJ to cover.   Show Transcript: Only 23% of B2B Marketers use LinkedIn Ads. We interview Michael Stelzner, founder of Social Media Examiner to find out that and more. Welcome to the LinkedIn Ads Show. Here's your host, AJ Wilcox. Hey there LinkedIn Ads fanatics. I am absolutely brimming with excitement today, because I get to introduce you to my guest, Michael Stelzner. He's someone I'm blessed to call a friend and a mentor. And he needs no introduction, but I'm going to give him one anyway. He's the founder of Social Media Examiner, which is the resource for social media marketers to stay up on industry changes. He's also the host of the social media marketing podcast, to which I'm a subscriber and have never missed a single episode. It's got over 400 episodes, and I've even been a guest twice. He also hosts Social Media Marketing World. The mega conference for social media marketers in San Diego every year. And as a side note, this is one of my favorite conferences to attend and speak at because it's the first and only conference with a dedicated LinkedIn track. Finally, some love for LinkedIn. He's a mentor to many of the biggest names and social media and constantly has his finger on the pulse of all things social, which is why I'm so excited to be talking to him today about the industry report he recently published and how LinkedIn fits into the entire social media ecosystem, plus an exclusive announcement at the end. So stick around just a short news segment today. Just a reminder, I'm going to be doing the first of many q&a episodes here coming up in the next few weeks. So get your questions into Podcast@B2Linked.com and I'll make sure to feature your question. Okay, without further ado, let's hit it. 1:51 Hey, Michael. So great. You could come and join us here on the LinkedIn Ads Show. 1:54 Thanks so much for making the time. 1:55 AJ, it's absolutely a pleasure to join you today. 1:58 Well, I am in storied company here. I feel like you are the father of the whole social media industry. So I'm just quite honestly very flattered you've considered to come on the show. I call you a friend. And I'm really excited for the stuff that you're going to share with us today. 2:12 Well, it's been great to work with you and become your friend over the years. And I'm really really honored that you also calling me the father because I'm definitely not the father. Probably this one of the jokers, but happy to bring whatever wisdom I can to your audience for sure. 2:27 When the jokers bring the wisdom, it's a good castle. 2:30 I guess first of all, how are things been going for you during the whole COVID situation? I mean, tell us personally how things are. 2:37 Yeah, well, as you know, you got a chance to come out here and film inside of our studio during COVID. And it was pretty quiet here in the building. Most of our staff are working from home. Things are uncertain like we for sure don't know for example, if we're gonna have a physical conference because as of this recording, California is kind of not looking so good with COVID, which we won't know for a while and that's kind of unnerving to not know about your future. But you know, I'm a believer that whenever you are dealt a deck that you don't expect that there's opportunity in there somewhere. And I believe in innovating your way out of struggle. So we have just used this as an opportunity to be super innovative. You know, that phrase, the mother of invention is necessity, right? So like when you need to do something is when you do stuff that you never thought you could do. And that's what's exciting for me is, I believe, incredible opportunities coming as a result of this, and we're just kind of figuring our way out, but we're not pessimistic. We're very optimistic about the future. And we're just excited to see what tomorrow holds for sure. 3:38 Well, and like I mentioned in the intro, you are the creator of the mega conference for social media. This is Social Media Marketing World and I counted a huge blessing personally, that you were able to put on the 2020 show, basically right before all of the COVID shut down happen. So I'm amazed that that was the one show I got to go to. 3:56 Yeah, that was crazy because I think everybody became aware it was March 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, right? So literally the very first American who died of COVID was up in Seattle on like, the second day of the event. And all of a sudden, everybody's like, Whoa, what's happening here? And then, slowly but surely, people began to realize this might be the last big conference that I'm gonna be at for a long time. And indeed, that happened. So yeah, we were really blessed to kind of be there during that experience. And, and it was just a surreal, really neat opportunity that was granted to us and hopefully, we'll be able to do it again in the future. We'll see. 4:32 And anyone who has not yet been able to attend Social Media Marketing World, I will tell you, I speak at probably 15 to 20 events every year. And that is by far my favorite. Like if I knew a pandemic was coming and I could choose one show to speak at before everything shut down for five months, that would have been the one. So thanks for making that happen. 4:50 Thank you, AJ. 4:50 So I know you just I'll say recently, but this was in May, you came out with this massive report that you do across all social media every single year. So it's the 2020, social media marketing industry report from Social Media Examiner. First of all, how long have you been doing the report? And why do you do it? 5:08 Well, thank you for mentioning that. Yeah, first one came out in 2009. So this is I think, the 12th annual report, if I'm not mistaken. So we've been doing it non stop every year for 12 years. And it's been really fun for me to survey thousands and thousands of marketers, I think we surveyed this year over 5000, marketers all over the world, in B2B and B2C. And it's just been really exciting to kind of see how they're changing where their trends are. And we look at everything from use of video, to use of social platforms, to future use of social platforms, to objectives and benefits of social media and a million other things and we give it all away for free in about a 50 page report. We use it internally to help direct our editorial direction and of course, decide what topics to talk about on the podcast and what kind of things to have at our conference. But you know, a lot of people in the world use it to also do some of the same things like we've already had 25,000 downloads on that thing. You know, we're recording this just a couple of months after it came out. 6:08 And for listeners who want to go and look at this report while we're discussing it, yes. Can you tell us where can we find it? 6:13 Yeah, socialmediaexaminer.com/report2020. 6:18 Perfect. All right, make sure you go get your copy. We're going to be talking about specific points in here that you'll probably be interested in. 6:23 Yeah. And it's free. 6:24 Yeah, exactly. And oh, boy, I'm so glad that it helps dictate your editorial direction that you guys can use it. Because I know it's valuable for us, we get to take a temperature of, you know, how do people feel about LinkedIn specifically? 6:35 Exactly. 6:36 Did you have any really big bombshell realizations from the data this year? I mean, was there anything that just punched you in the face? 6:43 Everything just kind of at a macro level, changed a little bit like across all social platforms, a lot of the benefits went down across the board, which is one of the things that I kind of thought was interesting, but still, you know, and the benefits of social media that we asked about every year are things like generating leads, generating sales, all that kind of stuff. And still, for the most part, more than 50% of marketers said, actually, more than 59% of marketers said, it improve sales, developed loyal fans, generated leads increased traffic, and increased exposure. So it's still like the top benefits are there. But the benefits that started shrinking are, for example, providing marketplace intelligence, growing business partnerships. I think this has to be a bigger part of what social media was back in the day. Because back in the day, there weren't as many social platforms like Twitter was it and Facebook and you could tweet somebody and all of a sudden they'd be open to talking to you, you know, those are, those are kind of different days, right? 7:44 Oh, yeah. Love Twitter. 7:45 Yeah. So everything went down a little bit as far as the percentages but I wouldn't say anything, like struck me as absolutely shocking. Not at all. 7:53 That's really interesting. And do you feel like the COVID situation influenced any of this? Do you know how much of the data collection happened during quarantine? No, this was all collected pre-COVID. But I will tell you, we did another content study in July, just for internal purposes. And we we asked some of the same questions and not all the questions, but a lot of the things have held the interest in the platform's hasn't changed the order of the rankings, all that kind of stuff. So if anything, I think COVID has increased. For example, we just recently had Mark Zuckerberg report on his earnings call literally just yesterday. And I think if I'm not mistaken, the use of Facebook has gone up by 11%. Meaning the amount of time people are spending on the platforms. So I think what COVID has done for the social media platforms is increased usage and activity, because people are stuck at home and they want to socialize and where else to do it but on the social platforms, right? So COVID has turned out to help the platforms. I don't think it's hurt them at all. 8:53 Yeah, I've seen the same thing with LinkedIn. We've seen our impressions, our engagement go up across nearly all of our clients. So I feel like Facebook jumped 11%. LinkedIn probably did too. 9:03 And speaking editorially, we've seen jumps across our editorial channels as well. So I think the interest in learning how to use social platforms has increased as well. Because the old traditional ways of doing speaking and local events and all that stuff are obviously not able to happen. So those naysayers who have been eh, social media is just for them young kids right? Now they're all of a sudden, oh, maybe I better learn this stuff. 9:30 Which is a good thing, because it's a very powerful side of our digital marketing tool set. 9:34 Yeah, exactly. 9:35 You mentioned that you surveyed both B2C and B2B right. The first chart I want to ask you about is if you're following along page 14, where it's talking about platform use for B2C marketers. And of course, I'm not surprised at all to see that Facebook's at 96%. 96% of B2C marketers are using it, but I actually was pretty surprised to see LinkedIn at 50%. So I guess my question to you if you have the insight, yhy do you think B2C marketers are showing interest in LinkedIn? What kind of draw does it have for them? 10:05 Well, first of all, it's a really fascinating question. So just to give you some quick data for everyone who's listening, Facebook is used by 91% of B2B marketers, followed by LinkedIn at 81%. And 50% of B2C use LinkedIn, but only 4% of them say it's their most important platform. Facebook is used by 91% of B2C marketers, okay, that shouldn't surprise you, right? But a big chunk of them use LinkedIn also, okay. Now, when it comes to B2B 46% of B2B marketers say that Facebook is their most important platform. Okay, followed by LinkedIn. So almost half of b2b marketers, say if they could only choose one platform, they choose Facebook. And then 33% choose LinkedIn. So this was a choose one right? Here's all the platforms 46% said Facebook. And then 33% said LinkedIn of B2B marketers. Right? So that's the question, right? Why so much interest in Facebook? Right? And I think that it's part of a bigger dialogue, which is, Facebook is used by everybody. Okay. So if we think about this for a second, Facebook is the platform that the world is on. And there's billions on Facebook and there's hundreds of millions on LinkedIn. We know this to be true, right? People use Facebook, for personal and for business, right. And people use LinkedIn, probably mostly just for business. So because they already are B2B, and their friends are on Facebook. They go to groups on Facebook, it's part of their natural living. It's almost like email for them, right? So the Facebook ecosystem is so huge and so ubiquitous that the whole world uses it regardless of whether that business they work for targets B2B targets B2C. I know your next question is like, well, why? From the business side of things, first of all the ad costs are really affordable, as you know, on Facebook. Secondly, they can do super creative targeting on Facebook that you cannot do on LinkedIn, which I know you know is true. Third, live video is available for everyone on Facebook. You don't have to wait. You don't have to get selected. There's nothing signed no signups or anything right. And fourth, facebook groups are way better than LinkedIn groups. Okay, there was a time where LinkedIn has dominated. But now it's Facebook groups, right? So from a utilitarian perspective, these B2B marketers, they have groups of customers that are on Facebook. They're using live video on Facebook, because it's the only place that they can use live video because they're not been selected yet on LinkedIn. They're using it to acquire customers because they know that their customers are also on Facebook, right? So it's not that they don't find value in it. It's just that they use it. Now. This Is the distinction. You know, from the B2C side of it. If we flip the coin, the B2C side, they don't really put a lot of value in LinkedIn, only 40% of them say it's their most important platform. 50% say Facebook. And that makes a lot of sense that they would choose Facebook as their overwhelming platform. So I think what's going on here is it's just Facebook is the innovator. LinkedIn has never really been the innovator. LinkedIn has been like the ketchup boy, for lack of better words, right? Yep. About four years behind. Yeah. So I think it'd be not smart for B2B marketers to ignore Facebook. And I would I would think you would agree as well, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. It doesn't mean LinkedIn isn't powerful. It just means that LinkedIn is different, right? So I think LinkedIn for a lot of B2B marketers is an important part of their arsenal of marketing tools. But it's not their only thing that they do. That's my thinking. I don't know. What's your thoughts on that? 13:53 Yeah, I totally agree. I get asked all the time. When I'm pitching LinkedIn to a potential customer. They'll say something like, Oh, we don't think are customers on Facebook. And I usually stop them and say, well, they are. Everyone is on Facebook, the challenge is we just can't reach them well enough with targeting by who they are professionally for it to make economic sense, you know, because LinkedIn cost per click is so high, it basically means that if you don't have a large deal size on the back end, LinkedIn is priced themselves out of the market for you. So anyone with a lifetime value of under about 10k, I tell them go Facebook and Google all day long. But if you have over that, and precision in your targeting, make sense, then yeah, you go to LinkedIn. 14:35 Well, and here's some more interesting data of the B2B marketers that we surveyed, which I think was about 40% of our survey audience, which is, you know, makes sense, because B2C is very much all over social more than B2B is 73% of those B2B marketers said they wanted to do more with LinkedIn The next year. So it's not like LinkedIn isn't important to them. They just haven't yet done as much as they want to do they want to figure it out more. I know that a lot of them are hopeful they're going to get live, right? Live video. I know a lot of them are like, trying to figure out how in the world, they could possibly make ads work for them. Right? And I'm sure a lot of them are interested in publishing content on LinkedIn, right? Because it's one of the few platforms that actually does give you really incredible reach. Where Facebook represses your reach, LinkedIn allows that reach to just explode because as you know, every time someone likes or comments on your editorial content, or your post or whatever, their friends see it right. That is so cool. Let's hope LinkedIn doesn't take that away. Right? And let's also be intellectually honest, LinkedIn feels so much more like what Facebook used to feel like that it's actually become a destination. Where I think for a lot of marketers, it became a place they just checked in and they left. I think it's now becoming a place that they go and they hang out. And I'm sensing that. Do you feel that as well? 16:04 Yeah. In fact, when Microsoft released their last quarterly earnings, they shared something that LinkedIn never shares, they actually shared how much time on platform grew over the last year. This was obviously during COVID. But they showed a 60% increase in time spent in the newsfeed over the previous year. And I don't think that's just COVID I think a lot of that is just it is it's a destination. It's a place where people come now to hang out and interact, where it used to be come back every six months to update your resume. Well, you know, and it's funny because we forget sometimes who owns these platforms, right? We forget that Facebook owns Instagram. And we forget that Microsoft owns LinkedIn. But really fascinating news that I just read earlier today, Microsoft is thinking about purchasing the US based TikToK. And that just came out with the news today. So can you imagine if Microsoft was able to somehow make that work where they owned TikTok and LinkedIn. I mean, holy cow. And it doesn't seem to make sense at first blush, right? Why would they do that, but this is a way that they can capture a younger marketplace. Think about the incredible opportunity to bring people up into the Microsoft family of products, right? They've got plenty of cash, you know what I mean? And all of a sudden, it's like, wow, this could be bringing in some really interesting, innovative technology, if they were able to acquire this from TikTok into the LinkedIn ecosystem. 16:04 Yeah, when I heard LinkedIn was being bid on by potential buyers, before Microsoft made the announcement. I just went, oh, please, please, please have it be either Google, Facebook, or Salesforce. Any of those companies could make amazing use of LinkedIn data. And then it was Microsoft. And I kind of went, ah, darn. I mean, there's some value there, but not nearly as much. Google marketers forever have been just saying they are giving us amazing tools for B2C. We've got nothing for B2B. Facebook, the big challenge is yeah, people use it for B2B, but they can't get people to reliably give them their business info. So those combined, that'd be great. But we got Microsoft, we'll make the best. 18:11 And you know, fascinatingly enough, they do have a pretty, pretty big consumer division with Xbox, right? So imagine if they had Xbox and TikTok, right? And then all of a sudden, you begin to see the connections there, right? And all of a sudden, maybe they take their gaming system, and who knows, maybe they acquire a live video company. I mean, you could just kind of see a whole consumer division of this thing, kind of fascinating diversion. But I'll let you take back control. 18:34 Yeah. And now a younger audience who are being introduced to LinkedIn with a consumer research company. I did a survey of high schoolers and college students on basically how do they use LinkedIn. And I'll be doing a podcast on this in the future. But what we found is high school students don't even know what LinkedIn is, college students go, I'll look at it when I get a job. I mean, if you can imagine something like tying in livestreaming gaming with Xbox, TikTok, I think LinkedIn would actually really benefit as those people get into high school and college and start to build a profile. 19:09 It'll be interesting. We'll have to watch how that goes. 19:11 Love it. Anyone following along to the report here on page 23. It's about future LinkedIn plans. And it says more than half of marketers, 55%, plan on increasing their LinkedIn organic activities over the next 12 months. And while 55% is pretty high, I'm seeing that it's only a 3% increase from 2019. I mean, do you have any comment on that? 19:34 Well, if you think about how we do the survey, we say, you know, do you plan on doing more or less or the same or you know, something along those lines, right with all the platforms. And when they say that they want to do more, it's a bit subjective about what those organic activities might be. So in their mind, they might be thinking live video, they might be thinking more posts. So it's a bit subjective, but it's good because the good news is more than half right, 55% want to do more with LinkedIn in an organic way. So what that tells me is that there's interest in continuing to innovate, improve, increase activities, it doesn't mean they're just going to post more, it just means that they're going to try to do more, whatever that means to them. Right. And I think that's good news. Because if it was less than half, then that would be probably a negative indicator that would show that they're not so excited about it anymore. So the fact that it went up a little bit is actually not bad at all. 20:33 Okay, that's great insights. On page 29. We see that b2b marketers are far more interested in learning about LinkedIn. That is 72% of b2b versus 52% of b2c. I think this reasons I think it makes sense. 20:47 I'm with you, 100%. But I think it's interesting that 52% of B2C want to learn more about LinkedIn. That's the fascinating thing here, right. And maybe we should just talk for a little bit about that because I don't think we really did go into that right. Why would B2C people even be interested in LinkedIn. You willing to talk about that for a little bit? 21:03 Oh, hundred percent. Yeah, that was actually one of my questions. I'm curious, like, what is the draw for them? 21:08 Well, I think that we're starting to see it become almost an influencer site like Instagram. And I think we're specifically seeing this a lot with the female influencers on LinkedIn, like, especially in the in the business world. I think we're starting to see a lot of people use it as a blog platform where they can just post short form videos. I think we're also starting to see people just post what they're doing in their life, right. And it's almost become like a little blog, for lack of better words, right? Like, this is what I'm doing. This is what I'm struggling with. This is my story, right? Yeah. And it's not surprising, because anywhere you have the opportunity to write a story. And people follow you. You have an opportunity to build a following because I've been around long enough and you've been around long enough that this is how blogging started. Right? Yeah. In the beginning, it was people telling stories, right? It was stories of their life, right? Now this has moved on to social platforms like Facebook and LinkedIn. So if people are going on there, and they're in the B2C world, like fashion or home goods or whatever, and they want to establish themselves in a predominantly male dominated platform, let's be honest, right? If they can go on there as a female, and they can do something that stands out from everybody else who's doing pure business related content, all of a sudden they have an opportunity because there's not as much competition. Right. And we're seeing this with a lot of people. Like we see this with some people go on there and talk about politics, which is definitely B2C, some people go on there, and they talk about whatever they're an expert in. So they're using it to draw an audience to them for a consumer facing kind of thing, but they're using it in a way that is, I don't know how else to say this. Technically, it makes sense. But culturally, it seems a little off right? Because so much of the platform has been linked to my blog posts about business related topics, right? Discussions around business related topics. But the moment people talk, start talking about personal stuff on there all of a sudden, hey, these are just humans talking to humans and that stuff works. Have you noticed that this is starting to become a trend? And some people are getting traction with this? 23:16 Yeah, absolutely. I've actually gone through the same thought process myself. If I have to go to one platform and share something, when I share on LinkedIn, it gets 20, 30, 50,000 views. If I go and share on Twitter, I haven't checked my analytics recently. But I would imagine I get less than, I don't know, 200 views on a tweet. And so I don't even think about the culture of what are these networks I'm posting on, I think of I have limited time, where is my audience, and I'm probably going to take it to LinkedIn where I have a bit bigger of a megaphone. 23:45 Yeah. And I think that the truth is that if we think about the historical pre-conception of what LinkedIn has been, which is it's a job place, right, to get a job. So when you're going on there, to get a job. You're going on there for B2C jobs just as much as you're going on there for B2B jobs. Right. So therefore, there are people that are interested in B2C industries that are in there participating. And it kind of logically makes sense. If they don't really care about the business to business topics that maybe you and I care about. And they happen to go on there thinking it's for one thing and realize it's for something else. They might come back, right? 24:23 Yeah. In fact, we find several niches inside of b2c that make a ton of sense on LinkedIn. The first is what you've already mentioned, recruiting like hiring, recruiting, anything like that, technically a B2C offer, but you reach someone by who they are professionally, so it makes sense in the B2B context. Also, higher education, like recruiting for MBA programs, for instance, is big. We've also found financial services and even some kinds of travel tend to do really well on LinkedIn Ads. So I'm looking at that going okay, 95% of our clients are B2B, but we Have some B2C that makes sense. So I guess if they make up a small part of the interest we're seeing. 25:05 Yeah, absolutely. So I think that anybody listening to this who is B2C? And is all in on all the other platforms and maybe not all in on LinkedIn or maybe they feel like they can't talk about certain things on LinkedIn, I would just say experiment, right? What do you get the list? Let's see if I can get some traction. 25:20 Yeah, I would tell people try to avoid politics and religion, if you can. Try to avoid pictures of you on the beach, you know, holding your drink of choice. But outside of that, LinkedIn sharing is very Facebook. And, you know, people just sharing here's what I ate for breakfast. I've seen that do well. So I think that's good advice. 25:38 Yeah. But if you show a picture of you on a beach drinking and you're in the business of trying to get consumers to go to the beach, and drink, then go for it, right? 25:47 Yeah, then that makes plenty of sense. 25:51 I've also found that if you share something that's personal, but you just bend it towards business. I've seen our mutual friend Dennis Yu does this quite a bit. He'll show Something's just personal about his life. And then he'll relate it to how it taught him something about how to run his business BlitzMetrics. Yeah. So I think even if you're just sharing what you had for breakfast, steer it in the direction of what you're doing professionally and chances are people aren't gonna beat you up over it. 26:15 Good advice. 26:16 All right,let's talk about video platforms, page 36 talks about the video platforms that marketers want to learn more about. And I think my first question for you here is, what is the draw in social media video? And then who's using it? And how is it most used effectively? 26:33 Well, first of all, video is absolutely huge. Let me address this from a couple different angles. Let's start with LinkedIn in particular, and then I'll go to the the bigger draw. I think that there's a big opportunity for video on LinkedIn. First of all, you've got live video, if you can get it. It's amazing for creating engagement. But even uploaded video is also something that you know, as long as you keep it short, right, it's something could be very powerful. But I think the opportunity for LinkedIn is if they ever come out with a stories based thing on LinkedIn, it would be huge. Just like Facebook, and Instagram, and Snapchat, and TikTok all have stories. If there's a way that LinkedIn could roll something like that out, I think it would be absolutely huge because what it would allow is part of this bigger trend, which is authentic raw Day in the Life, here's the experience that I'm having. Or here's the event that I'm at, or here's how the sausage is made inside the factory, you get where I'm going with this right? Or here's what it's like to work at this business. The fact that it can be just done from a phone instantly in seconds and doesn't need to be perfect is blowing up on all the other platforms. It's huge. So if LinkedIn ever does and I I'm almost willing to bet money, they're they're considering it behind closed doors, you know, I'm sure they're probably like, when are we going to come out with stories? When are we going to come out with stories, but if they do that it would be absolutely huge. Now to the bigger question is what is it about video in general on all the platforms for the most part, but especially Instagram and Facebook, it's a huge opportunity to develop empathy and connection with an audience. Because when they can get to know you, and begin to like you and trust you, that kind of reduces that barrier of wanting to do business with you, right? And I think that the key thing is that most video consumption on the other platforms is like 15 seconds or less, right? So that's where the story stuff like this is where the story is, is blowing up on every platform because it's short, highly consumable, and it tends to be linear and it's kind of a story environment where each one builds on top of the other and it's super easy to consume. I think that that is really, really big. And I think that LinkedIn for sure saw the value of video with the uploaded video right? And I'm sure you use it and a lot of other people use it. Live video is starting to become really popular. But I do think that video is the future. If we step back and ask why is video the future. Let's think of this in light of this pandemic, have you been watching more or less netflix....? Since the pandemic happened? 29:08 Yeah, me personally, it's been about the same, but I know a lot of people... 29:11 How about the rest of your family? 29:13 Yeah, they're spending definitely more time in front of the TV. Yeah. 29:16 Yeah. So you think about this, right? You've got all these streaming platforms that are coming out with amazing quality content, right? And it's next to nothing, right? Or it's free in the case of Amazon or, or if you happen to like, you know, have an AT&T internet connection you can get HBO max for free. I mean, or Disney+ is next to nothing, right, it's so cheap. So what you have is you have this incredible high quality content that the world is watching on their television, their smart TVs, on their phones, everywhere, right? So the world has become consumers. The whole world has become like expecting that I don't have to go to the movies anymore. I can get better quality shows with the click of a button and I can binge watch them and be highly entertained, right? So when we think about that, and we transition over to YouTube, which is the business opportunity, I think for so many of us, is YouTube. And I talked about this at my keynote at Social Media Marketing World, there's this mass consumption of video on YouTube as well. And I think all the social platforms know that the consumers are expecting to be able to find high quality content that's educational, or entertainment that they can just watch, right? Short form stuff tends to be entertaining, longer form stuff tends to be, you know, in the case of our world, educational, especially with LinkedIn, generally providing value. And I think that the whole world has just gotten to the point where that's how they prefer to consume content, by watching. And that means they're reading less. And, you know, there's a lot of statistics showing people just aren't reading as much as they used to. Audio is also down a little bit now because of COVID because people aren't commuting as much as they used to so they're not listening to podcasts as much as they used to, but video has completely exploded. My guess is if we looked at the data consumption of video, it's probably quadrupled. Why do you think everybody's talking about zoom? So it's gone through the roof. So it's a mega trend now. So the opportunity, I think, for us is figuring out how to tap into it. And there are some of our friends doing it really well on LinkedIn. 31:20 Oh, yeah, plenty of them. I love what you said about just how easy it is to build that know, like, and trust factor over video. I tell people all the time. I mean, if you're trying to think of an offer that you can give through LinkedIn, it try to make it a webinar if you can, because two minutes of you talking to camera will build more know, like, and trust factor than reading five of your white papers. So I definitely agree with that. 31:45 Michaela Alexis is someone who I think has been doing a really good job. She's one of your contemporaries. What I love about what she's doing is she's she's using it for storytelling. And this is something all marketers need to think about. Like storytelling is not just a consumer thing. It's a B2B thing, right? So what makela does really well, she'll take something that happened in her life. And then she'll so a story around it right? And she'll get people to watch it, or consume it. And then she'll get a chance to talk about what she wants to talk about. And I think this is a lesson so many of us as marketers could take and use in video on LinkedIn, which is how can we sell a story? How can we take something that happened in our life and make a connection to something we are offering to our client base? If we can do that, we can we can move mountains. 32:27 Shout out to Michaela. What's up, Mick? Something else I wanted to mention, you brought up stories for LinkedIn? Message to my LinkedIn partner team, Iam not sharing this outside of NDA. This was outside of your channels. I actually had someone chat me this morning from the Netherlands, showing that story ads are rolling out in the Netherlands. I thought you might be interested. 32:48 So how can they have story ads if they don't have stories? 32:51 They have stories they actually launched stories to higher ed first. So education has had it then they built the ad unit off of it. 33:00 Oh, perfect. Okay, so stories is coming, then that's so awesome. Okay, LinkedIn, if you're listening, this is the part that frustrates us, okay? You can't just let certain people have these features forever. You need to roll them out to the world. I mean, come on. Learn from your brother, okay? 33:18 Well, that's been so interesting watching video roll out because video was already huge on on Facebook, on Instagram, before it was even released on LinkedIn. So I think a lot of people got into the habit of sharing video and creating on other platforms, but they didn't even think to bring it to LinkedIn. So you know, they're a little bit late to the party, but I think that means that there's a big opportunity for those who aren't looking past it and overlooking. On page 37. about social media ads. This is one I was obviously paying close attention to. It says that B2C marketers are likely to use Facebook ads, 74% of B2C marketers, 45% of B2C marketers using Instagram ads. B2B marketers are using more LinkedIn Ads. This is up 23%. And so I guess I'm curious, why do you think and we may have already touched on this. But why do you think only 23% of B2B marketers are using LinkedIn Ads? And what does that opportunity look like for reaching the other 77%? 34:13 Yeah, well, I think that the challenge with LinkedIn Ads, as you know intimately well, is that they are a little bit too costly, and that they are not as targetable you know, as a lot of the other kind of thing. But if we think about this, it's true that even on Facebook, the free users of all platforms is monster huge compared to the paid users, okay, so if we think about this, from a perspective, like take Facebook as the behemoth, there's only like 6 million that actually use it for advertising. That's it. Okay, out of the hundreds of millions of businesses are on there, it's tiny little fragment. So while a lot more people say that they use Facebook ads than LinkedIn, it doesn't mean they use Facebook ads every single day. It so my guess is what's really going on here is you have most people using organic on both LinkedIn and Facebook. And those that do use ads are using it on Facebook only because they probably haven't been able to figure out how to make it work on LinkedIn. That's my thinking. Like, for example, we're a B2B company, right? We help marketers working for other companies figure out how to take their, you know, goals to the next level. We have not successfully use B2B LinkedIn Ads, we just haven't. For us for what we sell, we just haven't been able to make it work. So we're probably not unlike all the other B2B companies out there, right? They're just a lot every B2B company is selling the really expensive products that have the huge profit margins and are willing to pay that high cost per acquisition. That's my thinking. 35:46 Yeah, I think that's really accurate. I mean, when you're interviewing all these social media marketers, not all of them are advertisers. So seeing a figure that low, even if someone is B2B, they may be an organic marketer and so there's no reason for them to use LinkedIn Ads, so it makes perfect sense. 36:03 Yeah, most people don't use ads is probably the simplest answer. 36:07 And those who do are probably going to start on Facebook. This is kind of off the beaten track. This isn't a question I told you. I was gonna ask. I was so shocked last year, when for those who don't know, you had this show called The Journey that was on Facebook and on YouTube. And it was basically a documentary style of what it took to put on the mega conference, Social Media Marketing World. And I was watching every episode, I I loved it. But it was so interesting last year to hear you share on your podcast, anyone who's not listening to the Social Media Marketing podcast, definitely do. You probably are, if you're listening to this one, you've probably listened to Mike's show, but you talked about how you just decided to drop the journey entirely from Facebook because the watch time wasn't there. Can you give us a little bit of insight into it? 36:54 Our old adage was distributed everywhere. So the idea was that we would take the journey and we would call publish it on Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn, and YouTube natively. All okay? Now the only platforms that provide true metrics on video really well is Facebook and YouTube. LinkedIn doesn't do a real good job with their retention metrics. So you don't just know how many people viewed it, but you don't know how long they've used it unless they've changed that, which I don't think they have. They haven't have they? 37:22 Nope. Through ads, you can see the stats, but organically, you can't see 75% or completions. 37:27 Yeah. So the challenge is, what is the view? And this is an important thing for marketers to wrap their mind around, right? A view is not a view, by the metrics we think of as a view. Facebook calls a view three seconds or longer. YouTube is 30 seconds or longer. Twitter. Nobody knows. LinkedIn, nobody knows. 37:48 LinkedIn is two seconds. 37:49 It's two seconds? 37:50 Yeah. 37:51 Okay, so think about that. And you think about the feed experience on all these platforms. They're all pretty much the same. It's all a feed, right? You scroll through it. Generally it's muted. It's playing. So first of all, it's very easy to scroll through a feed and see a video play for two or three seconds and have it counted as a view. But you and I both know that they're not really intending to view it. So you could falsely see these big numbers and say, wow, look at all the people watching my videos on LinkedIn, and Facebook and Twitter and wherever. But thank goodness, YouTube, and Facebook show you this thing called the retention graph, which means they show you how long they stick around for and they show you the drop offs. So when you actually get to that level of data, you begin to realize that Facebook looks like going off the edge of a cliff after the first few seconds. Okay. YouTube looks like a gradual downhill slide. Not even more of a hill, more of like a, sometimes it's barely declining and staying flat on YouTube. So then you begin to ask yourself, why is that? Oh, it's the behavior of the platform's. So people go to LinkedIn and to Facebook and to Twitter to discover whatever is going on. There's no intent to go there and watch a video generally speaking, but they go to YouTube to do only one thing, which is to watch video, okay? So as a result, it made a lot of sense for us to just say, we're not going to publish the journey on all these platforms anymore. We're going to publish on one platform. And we're going to link to it from these other platforms. So today, we don't have the journey anymore. And instead, we produce three original, two original videos, which AJ has got a bunch of stuff on our YouTube channel, you definitely want to check it out. Look up Social Media Examiner on YouTube, and we take those videos and cross link those. We cross link to videos from LinkedIn and from Facebook directly to YouTube. The goal is to promote to the channel known as YouTube for us, because that's where people go to watch. And it's been fascinating for me to look at the data to see that some people are watching on smart TVs. Some people are watching on smart devices, some people are watching on desktops. And the goal for us has become we want to grow that channel because that's the place where everybody goes to watch video. And we want to tap into that mega trend I talked about earlier of people consuming video, right? What's great about YouTube is it's kind of like TicTok. They go to watch one video and then the algorithm intelligently introduces a bunch of other videos to you. Those videos could be your videos, right? And people stay and they watch a lot of videos and they have a high session duration. So it's been a really fun ride for me to go all in on YouTube and just see how everything has been growing. It's a really, really well tuned platform for video. So that's why we do not publish uploaded native video anywhere at all, except YouTube. We just cross promote to it, which is crazy, but I'm telling you, that's where everybody goes for that. And there's platforms for different kinds of things. And definitely video consumption is all on YouTube. I think that's the reason why LinkedIn hasn't revealed the data because they don't want to be embarrassed by how few people actually stick around inside their videos. They just don't want the world to know. 41:08 Exactly.Yep. It's just not good on any social site, because that's not why people are going, they're not going to be specifically entertained. 41:16 Well, the only video that's good is the short stuff, right? So that's why ads inside of stories are becoming popular. Because somebody can stick around for 10 or 15 seconds. But because that's kind of the normal attention span, if you will, where they want quick, high volume, short duration kind of videos. So that's why I'm sure stories will come to LinkedIn for every lessons. 41:36 And anyone who sees a really good LinkedIn story ad for b2b please forward it to me I'm, I'm dying to see how we can use story as effectively. In my mind, I think it's a very B2C kind of ad format, but we'll see. I want to I want to be surprised. Alright, so Mike, if you were a brand new B2B company, and you don't have the same brand power because I don't know how many followers you have on every every channel, but you are world famous. If you lost that brand power and had to start a brand new company with a with a new name, how would you approach it from all social media channels? 42:09 Where would I start? 42:10 Yeah, maybe specifically, what would you do on Facebook? What would you do on LinkedIn? 42:14 Okay, so first of all, I would definitely start a Facebook group. If I was starting all over from scratch, because it's all about community. Remember, social is about people and community, right? And Facebook groups is probably the best of what Facebook offers. And the good news about that is I would go in there and start a group and it would be focused on whatever my niche is and I would try to cultivate relationships inside of those groups. Knowing of course, it's not my platform, it's rented land, but it's okay. Facebook has made it very clear they're all about those meaningful engagements. And you can develop those relationships, which everybody in the B2B world knows is so critical. So I'd start with a Facebook group. And I would also consider using ads too, because if I had the money ads can be a huge accelerant on Facebook because it can be very economical. And whether you're a local B2B business trying to get Local stuff or whether you're big national brand, I would be all in there. So that's where I would start. And then as far as LinkedIn, I would probably say, do whatever AJ says, I'm gonna turn it right over to you. What would you say? Becauses honestly, I don't even know. 43:13 Well, honestly I mean the organic reach is so good on LinkedIn for personal profiles, not as good as companies. So I think the first thing I would do is go build your profile, spend some time on it, start connecting with the right people, and then start sharing because it's really easy to stand out. Once you become an influencer, once you have a lot of followers who care about you. It's not a hard jump to get you interested in understanding in what their company is doing. But I would start focusing heavily on the profile. Okay. And I know we're running low on time, I got to get you to your next meeting. I put a question out to all of my LinkedIn followers and just said, Hey, I'm going to have Michael Stelzner on the podcast, what questions would you have for him, and I had about 15 people responding and give me questions. We only have time for one so I'm gonna highlight Charles Lightfoot III, who asked a really good question. He said, "After seeing where marketers are planning on increasing spend and which platforms they are digging into deeper, I'd be interested in hearing, what are his predictions on lasting shifts in consumer behavior on social post pandemic?" So, in essence, how does the pandemic change what social marketers are going to be doing in the future? 44:24 Okay, first and foremost, you got to get video figured out. Okay, that's the theme that shouldn't be a surprise to anybody based on this conversation. You've got to figure it out. And I would say, if you're going to do the longer form video, I would go all in on YouTube. And I would figure out a way to make that a big opportunity for your business because YouTube is unlike all the other social platforms, it has a very long tail, meaning your video could all of a sudden months after it was published began to be suggested, as other people are watching video and it might come up just as the next video and all of a sudden it could really take off. And it's ike a blog post in Google search. It's that powerful, it's crazy. So don't forget about the fact that people go and they seek out content, B2B content on YouTube, I would go there for sure. I would also check out TikTok. Believe it or not, it's blowing up. It's not just for the young kids. And I do think that it is probably going to be the next big platform that everybody's talking about. It's heavily B2C right now. But there are people that are starting to experiment, you know, with it and trying to figure it out. TikTok is the opposite end, it's the short form video, right? So if you can figure out how to create short, engaging video on the platform that people are going crazy over then TicTok. And then of course stories on Instagram as well. So I would just say like, get the stories thing figured out. Figure out how you can make that shortm form video because it's going to be the normal, it's going to be the new normal. And then just remember, people are spending a lot more time, this is the other big trend, on social media, because they've got nowhere to go. They've got absolutely nothing to do, I wouldn't be surprised if we could get this data, how many times people open up the social platforms on their phone in one day, all of them? My guess is it's at least a dozen. So I think people are just so bored. And they're so sick of being where they are that they're going on to these platforms one at a time like this over and over again. That's a big opportunity for businesses because that means that they're gonna be there more than ever before. And as a result, that means your ads have greater opportunity to be seen, there might be more ad inventory. And there's just a lot more opportunity as a result of all this going on right now. 46:34 Brilliant, Mike, that is amazing. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. One thing I want to kind of point out here, I would assume the majority of our listeners are managing LinkedIn Ads, but are also responsible for Facebook. And so this is probably going to be really interesting to our listeners. This podcast is going to be released on August 11. And you have a Facebook Summit happening from August 10 to the 14th. So if you're listening to this podcast around the time of releases, you've got to go check this one out. Mike, can you tell us about the Summit? What are they learning? What are they getting out of it? 47:08 Yeah, we brought together 12 of the world's top Facebook marketing experts to teach you Facebook Ads. So I'm sure a lot of you are using that to teach you Facebook Live, you know, and Facebook Live is, like I said, available to everyone to teach you Facebook groups, Facebook organic marketing. So if you want to really learn a lot more about that, which I know you do because you guys have told me you do based on the stats. This is a great opportunity to get it live to live online event, socialmediaexaminer.com/FBsummit. And for those of you that are also interested, we've got a YouTube summit that's going to be releasing. You heard it here first. I haven't told the rest of the world, but in a couple of weeks after this, we're going to have the very similar kind of thing all on YouTube. And it's going to be focused on YouTube Ads, YouTube video creation, and YouTube's algorithm and all that stuff. That'll also be 12 of the world's top experts on YouTube. So we've found that these online summits have been really very well received, and they're a very economical way. So to find that one, you'll just want to go to socialmediaexaminer.com depending on when you hear this, and you'll be able to find that as well. And I have not told anybody about that. So you're getting like a big exclusive here. Think of these events as like a series of live trainings that are also recorded. But they're all highly instructional. They're all pretty much some of the best speakers that you would see at Social Media Marketing World. And I think one of the unique things that I've got going for me as I develop a deep relationship with a big bench of experts, as AJ can attest, and these are not just anybody, these are truly the best in the world. 48:48 And is there a cost associated with the summit? 48:50 Yeah, the price is depends on when you buy. There anywhere from $247 to $497. So it depends when you get in. So if you're checking out the Facebook marketing summit, as of this dropping, it'll probably be about $500. The YouTube marketing summit, if you get in early, it would be about $250. So a couple hundred bucks, investment might end up saving you a lot of pain and suffering as you learn from these experts who have been doing this for a long, long time, 49:19 Worth every penny. Absolutely! Michael Stelzner, thank you so much for joining us on the LinkedIn Ads show. It's been a pleasure and looking forward to the next time we get to chat. 49:27 My pleasure. Thanks for having me, AJ, 49:29 I've got the episode resources for you coming up. So stick around. 49:38 Thank you for listening to the LinkedIn Ads show. Hungry for more? AJ Wilcox, take it away. 49:49 I hope you enjoyed my chat with Michael Stelzner. As promised, here are the resources from this episode that we talked about. The first is the 2020 Social Media Marketing industry report. You can get on socialmediaexaminer.com/report2020. There's also the Social Media Examiner Facebook summit that is going on right now at the time of release. So check that out socialmediaexaminer.com/FBsummit for Facebook summit. And I mentioned Michael's podcast, the Social Media Marketing Podcast. There's a link in the show notes there. So go check that out. If you're not already subscribed, it is the top Social Media Marketing podcast, and you should definitely be paying attention to it. If you are new to LinkedIn Ads or are training an employee on it, I would highly recommend checking out the course that I did with LinkedIn on LinkedIn Learning. It's all about LinkedIn Ads and covers the basics of everything you'd want to know about LinkedIn Ads. And the price is right, it's only $25 or it's even free if you have a premium subscription to LinkedIn. Look down at your podcast player right now and make sure you hit that subscribe button if you aren't already. And please do rate and review. If you leave a review I would love to shout you out here on air. So definitely let me know what you think. As always reach out to us at Podcast@B2Linked.com with any suggestions for future content or questions you've got, and with that being said, I'll see you back here next week cheering you on in your LinkedIn ads initiatives.

In this episode of Leafy Podcast, our hosts sit down with John Vuong. John founded Local SEO Search, where he helps small business owners grow and succeed, giving them a leg-up to compete with more established companies in SEO and being seen on the internet. John also has a podcast Local SEO Today, a tool for business owners and entrepreneurs to help them succeed. John tells us that understanding how Google works and being aware of what customers want and are looking for is how he begins with his customers. He tells us that to start, focus on running a business, the foundational components to operating a successful business and SEO and advertising on the internet is a secondary concern after creating a solid company.   John explains how to utilize certain online platforms for advertising by understanding the mode of communication and the purpose of each platform (Facebook, LinkedIn, etc.) , understanding what’s going on with the users and capitalizing on what is available.  John believes life is short, so embrace it and take on the adventure. You can run a business the way you want and do it well so that you can spend time with family and friends, which is what really matters. To learn more about John Vuong, visit: localseosearch.ca Episode Transcript: Female Announcer  0:00  Welcome to the leafy podcast, helping real estate investors and entrepreneurs grow. Say hello to your hosts, Jennifer Gilgoric and Brian price founders of Leafy Legal Services,teaching you how to protect your assets for your business and manage your wealth. Let's start the show. Tammy Geerling  0:18  Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Leafy Show. Thank you so much for being with us today. I'm Tammy, the podcast manager. And on the line we have our awesome hosts both Brian Price and Jennifer Gilgoric from Leafy Legal Services. Brian is the CEO of that service and Jennifer is the COO. They have another awesome guests for us today. So let me pass it on to them so that they can get the show started for us. Hey, Jennifer, hey, Brian. How are you guys doing?  Brain Price  0:44  Good, good.  Jennifer Gilgroic  0:45  Great. Great. I'm very excited to be here today. So today's guest has a really awesome backstory. And so his life has been this incredible journey. His parents were Vietnamese immigrants to Canada and then through his life. He as he went, he got a paper route. So he's always been an entrepreneur. So even as young, he had a job, he was an entrepreneur, he went on a paper route. Then he ended up doing finance classes there at the university in London on it, Ontario. So that's still Canada. Then he ends up going to England. Then he comes back to Canada gets involved with yellow pages and red pages, actually, which was a startup that was going to compete and they were going to do an actual written, they're going to print out website addresses, just like you had for the phone book. So yeah, this was back in the day. So it's like so cool. And then he managed to move that forward and move that forward. And now he's an SEO expert. So I want us to give a huge round of applause and welcome John Vuong to our show. And he's with local SEO H O Seo search.ca. So welcome, John. I just love your story. John Vuong  1:57  Thanks a lot, Jennifer. Yeah, that was a great Intro. Yeah, it's been a journey for sure. And I'm excited to share some insights along the way. Unknown Speaker  2:07  Yeah. So how did you kind of get through this? You know, going through these different avenues? How did you finally settle on SEO? And and once you walk us through us and I like to hear more about these red pages, I think that's pretty interesting. John Vuong  2:21  Yeah, definitely. So seven years ago, I started this agency, local SEO search. I had no clue about anything technical. So I'm not an SEO background expert by any means. I started my career actually in sales in advertising sales. And I studied business finance, so it was kind of different. But in order for me to get a real job, that was my first job, and I stuck with it, and over the course of many years, I refined my art of sales and marketing. And I got to really understand what my strengths are what I enjoy doing, and Yellow Pages where I was there for five years. The relationships is what really connected me with local business owners, and really wanting to help them grow and stand out because they were genuinely interested in the community, right, like real people supporting real community leaders, right, like computer people. But even before that read pages, so that was my first job actually, outside of university. It was the, it was a great concept. It was competing with the yellow pages. First directory ever going to every single business home office tower, but printed every website, so it was competing with Google, but Google wasn't like taking off at that time yet. Right? So it was called read to and it also came out with a directory read Toronto, but it didn't last it didn't survive. It was a great concept. So I sold a bunch of it because I was a true believer in it. But it just didn't. survive. Jennifer Gilgroic  4:01  I think it's an absolute scream that you are in finance and that you went into finances school, but you end up in sales and you're like a total sales he kind of, hey, let's talk because usually finance people are like, hey, let's not talk so I can like do this right here with these numbers that I love. And you're like completely opposite of that. So I always love it when the journey switches in in changes, and and that relationships are so important. And it is weird when we look back that there was a day before Google, you know that you had these books and everything like that. I have a house that's over 100 years old, and my son we we were we it still has stuff in it from the the lady who had owned it her entire life. She was like literally in her 90s when I bought that. I think it's always been like their house, you know? And we found the old rotary phones. And I was like, show me how you would make a call. You know when we found them and he was like, I had no idea Like whatsoever, and then he was like, so you had to do that for every single number. And I was like, yeah. And if you got the wrong number, you have to start all over again. He was like, wow, this is fascinating, fascinating to him. So it was really cool. So tell me a little bit about how you went from the Yellow Pages. You're doing all this relationship, marketing and relationship sales, because people you know, the biggest part, if you're in advertising sales is not just to sell one ad, you want the people to constantly, you know, be re re upping their subscriptions. And that's part of your compensation, with many advertising sales. It's why some advertising sales reps make really good money. They're good at keeping their people, you know, they're always checking in with them, you know, so tell us a little bit how you went from that in and where you're at now. John Vuong  5:50  Yeah, so at Yellow Pages, so I was there for five years and relationship sales was more of a I don't know Like, I was genuine, I was really like just authentic raw. So I always had a story. And where I was just letting people in on like my journey, right? Like, what I grew up doing, how I discovered like traveling like I love. I had a exchange experience, like going to school in London, England for a year. And I was amazing. For me that really opened up a lot of opportunity for me to see what's bigger and greater than just my local community of working in a small suburb of Toronto, right? That's where I grew up. So for me, it was more about like, just connecting with people and letting them in. And yes, I was able to not just renew people, but upsell, and then of course, it was all about listening to them asking the right questions and finding out what their true needs and desires were right because ultimately, a lot of people were frustrated. They were getting spending more money than ever but not getting the same sort of return. They used to get 10 1520 years ago. And when I hear that all the time, I'm like, so what is going on? Where are people shopping? How are they pivoting? Like, what is the user behavior, right? And as you know, the internet started to take off, Google started becoming more present. Email started to be the main mode of communication, no longer fax machines, no longer telephones, text messaging, like all these new innovative stuff that you hear today, like social media and content, video content, audio, all that is all new within the last 10 years, right. But before that, it was still traditional media, which was newspapers, flyers, magazines, trade shows, billboards, Radio Television, right. But today, it's now podcast, YouTube videos. There's Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, you name it, right? Like there's so many other new initiatives. that technology has allowed users to change their behavior. Being controlling in a different platform in different way, at their convenience, right? So it's just different. But there's still a lot of people consuming information. And you have to understand the users behavior to then gravitate on what is important for business owners. And that's where I shifted, because a lot of people were just frustrated spending so much money and didn't see a good return.  Jennifer Gilgroic  8:24  It's very frustrating because it's changed so quickly, you know, it was like 100 years ago, it was still well, we have this directory and local and you go to this guy, and he puts up a little sign, you know, and that's how it was for like, ever. And when I say forever generations, yes, just in our lifetime. It's been you know, going from paper to then television and now you have radio now you have internet now the internet's completely changed and you have this is like weariness to have to as soon as like every other year, there is some new hotness and what Did you know six months ago isn't the same? And I think that there's a lot of business owners, but also people who are frustrated, where do I go to get really what I need? And and oh, now I've got to learn a new app. It's just crazy. So it's amazing that you're on the on the edge of that. How do you not get tech weary? I mean, there's a lot that's in your head. Do you just dump it out as you are constantly knowing new stuff? John Vuong  9:28  Yeah, so I specialized now just on SEO because it's already fairly complex. Digital advertising comprises of email, social content creation in various forms. And then understanding like, what these different apps and software and technology can actually do for a business, right like to either scale and understand the process and efficiencies of it. So you have to really just focus on what you do best. And I continue doing that which is building relationships, meaningful ones with business owners that are I'm trying to help them grow and build a digital presence, right. And what we do is focus just on SEO, because I feel it being very similar to what Yellow Pages provided, which is the organic, natural listings on Google where the businesses are not pushing stuff at you, right? That's advertising, you know, trying to disrupt that user behavior to get someone to either click or call you at that given moment with a creative ad, right. But when you're appearing organically or naturally, someone else is seeking you out. So you're pulling people when and during control. And that's what Yellow Pages provide. So that was more directive advertising versus Creative Advertising. And that's why I feel SEO is still the dominant player for that same sort of medium that people used to spend a lot of money and yellow pages with. Unknown Speaker  10:53  Yeah, that's an interesting way of putting it because yeah, I mean, it is it is kind of like the new Yellow Pages is but You have to kind of put yourself out there and find different ways of attracting people. It's not like in one, one book. So how are you helping people to get in front of more people to get to those those folks that are that are searching for you. John Vuong  11:15  So understanding how Google works is very important. And I feel people overcomplicate things. I always tell people like run a really good business. What I mean by that is, take care of your customers, listen to them, provide an amazing product or service. Understand that value prop what unique selling proposition you're offering, like, understand foundationally what makes a really good business because over the course of many years, I've worked with thousands of business owners that operated for generations without technology. So imagine how did they survive? they relied on referrals and word of mouth, right and minimal advertising on maybe yellow pages or print media or flyers. Whatever may be right, so right, how did they survive? And what has dif different right? Like, the challenges? There's a lot going on today technology has advanced so quickly in the last five or 10 years that people are bombarded with this new app, this new software, this new social media feed, and they're looking for quick solutions, fast ways to expedite to make that hundred thousand dollars in a week because they saw an ad there, right? And they forget that well, maybe one in a million person actually receive that benefit. Everyone else is gonna lose a lot of money and get stressed and frustrated. So why not you do what everyone else used to do, which is grind it out, understand how to run a business and focus on the foundations right? So that's what I always boil things down to like SEO can really help advance a business Once they already know how to take care of the customer, and run a good business, but we cannot help someone that doesn't even know how to run a business because their reputations on the line, there's a lot of other foundational things that are missing. Jennifer Gilgroic  13:13  Yeah, well, that's kind of what we do we do the foundational things on the back end structure so that they don't take themselves before they even get started, because everybody wants to sales come in. But there's a lot of other things you have to put in place in order for that to happen. So I get that. And I'm gonna ask you a question. You know, you were all heavy Google, Google Google. But right now, you know, like, as the time we're taping this, Google and Facebook and Amazon are all in this, like, antitrust. People are willing to break them up. I mean, you know, Google is the Yellow Pages, but it is the everything. It's like the new source. It's like the thing. So do you. Do you think now like, Are you already building your plan for what if they break it up? Like what if they actually split up Google and now People have other products that they can do, you know, there's brave, there's DuckDuckGo there's all these other search engines, you know, Yahoo used to be the search engine. But But now I think Yahoo doesn't that piggyback off of Google Now. They're all like together. But do you have a plan? Like how do you think it's gonna go now that there is so much heat on these these mega monopolies? Which, you know, in my opinion, they all need to be broken up. But you know, I'm, that's just my opinion. But yeah. John Vuong  14:33  So, like every generation, always look at where people the users are going to gravitate towards. So understanding what what channel or what purpose Facebook has, right, like, Who do they target and what's the sole purpose when you go to Facebook? What's the sole person is when you go to LinkedIn or Twitter, right understanding that mode of communication and that platform and medium of choice. So think about zoom and Eventbrite and all those online platforms where you can now do presentations since the pandemic, it's really been elevated, where people are now spending more time in front of a computer pitching and doing a lot more conferences that way. So it's just understanding what's going on, right in terms of the users. And if Google is still and yes, Google's always pivoting, they're trying to find ways to monetize. They're trying to own the real estate, trying to alleviate and not get business owners who are ranking users to click on their website, they will either click on Google's properties right around the SERPs, because that's your prime real estate. They make money through ads, right and retargeted ads, I get it. So you have to understand the whole purpose of the medium. And then how do you capitalize on what's available? Right, right. And I still feel SEO is very powerful, because you can control and position yourself and optimize as that local player. On the map below, right? Because that's still free at this time, but you also have to be weary of what's going on. Right? Because same with Facebook. You know, before, once upon a time a couple years ago, you could organically get position, right? But today, every two times every time you scroll down, there's an ad that appears, right? There's always pushing stuff at you. And it's more like, you're bombarded with stuff that you don't really want to, you know, be there for right like, yeah, so you have to understand the channel and the different media's out there and understand what's going on within and I still feel Google is great, like duck, duck go. It's not like in terms of use.  Jennifer Gilgroic  16:45  Yeah, I mean.  John Vuong  16:45  1%. Jennifer Gilgroic  16:46  Put that on every single phone. You see, when you have an agreement that every single phone that comes out, it has to have your voice. Brain Price  16:54  if you own the operating system. Jennifer Gilgroic  16:57  Now it's like you can't infer some people. They do all their work. I mean, I know people who literally work off their phones now, you know, the phones are more expensive in some cases than computers, which is nuts. Right? But you do everything you're doing your banking your you have your password keepers, you've got all your things on your phone. And so, yeah, I mean, it's crazy to have it so embedded like Facebook, I mean, there's entire things you cannot do unless you have a Facebook account where you can log in, that are totally unrelated to Facebook. Right? So it's just interesting because there's so much interconnectivity, it can be confusing for people. Yeah, very much so to compete, you know, but that's good. I really love the fact that you still believe in your in this every single day that you can still use it for local people, because that means that local businesses still have a chance to get the people around them for free. And they have ways that they can utilize this technology. So that actually warms my Heart, a whole bunch for that. John Vuong  18:03  Understanding the space, right? Like it's always evolving, but looking for opportunities to capitalize because people get frustrated, spending too much money not getting good returns. So I want to help the little guys. Unknown Speaker  18:15  Yeah. So are there certain things that you always do know? You know, I know things change for hours, there's kind of some basis that you actually do and maybe some of the new stuff that you're looking into as well. John Vuong  18:26  Yeah. So for us, we always look at foundational stuff like understand your client, creating a content journey mapping, and really positioning yourself as the expert, right. So understanding who your ideal persona client is, and writing every piece of content, your website piece is directly driven to those type of people, right, from everything you produce. From video, podcasts, audio, you know, images or written depending on where they're at in terms of the journey, create that content piece for them, and then making sure that You're up to date in terms of like, what's going on what the users want, like they want fast, secure, easy to use navigation. Like, all these things are now behavior. If you don't have it, someone else is gonna, you're probably losing out right on an alternative because they're bouncing off your page to someone else. Right? So just staying current and what's going on, right? Because technology's moving so fast. And as much as you want to stay on top of it. It's kind of scary too, because there's so much going on, right? Like AI. What's going on there? Like they know too much about you already. Right? Is that Jennifer Gilgroic  19:40  right? Yes. I'm like terrified like I can have a conversation with a friend of mine. And then immediately I'll go on, you know, to look at something and ads for that pickup. And I'm like, How did my phone know I was, you know, talking to somebody you know that. Maybe it's time to get hair extensions. My entire timeline is nothing but a hair extension company. Whatever but yeah, yeah, it's weird man. I don't like it. I'm like stay in as much as I say that. I still have an Alexa. So if I  Brain Price  20:12  Don't say it.  Jennifer Gilgroic  20:16  Oh, yeah, people used to be what was that joke? They used to say, you know, don't say that over the telephone because you never know if the CIA is listening, and then it says 2020 CIA, how do I bake a pie? Like that coming back to? That's cool. Well, so Okay, so what else can you tell people? Right now if they have their own, like website and stuff like that? Is there anything anyone can do besides writing things in the in the tone of the voice for your target client? Like taking it down from I just want to tell everybody in the whole wide world to really knowing who your ideal client is, it's very important. Is there anything else that you can give us on on top of that? John Vuong  20:58  Yeah, so I focused On a lot of service based small, medium sized business owners, like the local dentist or plumber or lawyer or whatnot, Google My Business is a great opportunity. If you haven't verified it, optimize it, make sure you're in the right category, put in all the services that you offer, update it once a week, get good reviews onto the Google My Business Page, because people are checking you out before they call you. And they know so much before they even reach out to you. That's scary, right? They know, they checked out you on LinkedIn, they check out your reviews, case studies, Chapter all your blogs to see if you're credible, right. So as much as you want to put out information, make sure it's consistent along the lines, don't, you know, say one thing and do something else the other channel right? So it's more important than ever to make sure all your assets and all the properties that you own online is consistent has the same tone of voice and has the same good, you know? Good feel authentic feel rawness, right, because end of the day people are gonna check you all. And if Jennifer Gilgroic  22:11  I actually have a really good local thing, so I had a marketing company and I used to help people do this and there was an assisted living facility here in our town, and they did not go out and grab what you say their their property. So when he says that if for anyone who doesn't know what that means, it means like, go to your Yelp and claim your business claim your business on Google, there's actually a little thing when you you put it up, is this your business? You want to claim it because somebody else can claim it. So they had a Facebook page that actually wasn't theirs. It was a it was a well meaning former staff, and so nothing had been updated on it. And there were some like comments that weren't that great, but their Google business showed had a set of pictures, the first pictures that came up That had someone had made a cut is disgusting, but they had messed their bed. That's all I'm gonna say that it was very graphic. And that is the picture that came up for now this is one of the cleanest, nicest facilities. And that picture wasn't even of their facility. Because the flooring was they didn't have that flooring anywhere in any of their rooms. But that was the picture that pulled up. And it was actually a process to pull that listing away, and a verification from the person who had claimed it, who was a competitor of a very small unit to do it. So people wouldn't go to this very large one. I mean, they had hundreds of rooms, a skilled nursing or whatever. And they're like, how can businesses just dropped and we're not getting calls. We're not getting this? Well, as soon as I help them clean that up a little bit just because I knew enough to do that. I'm not an expert like john, who could have probably really maximized that all of a sudden, the phones started ringing. They started getting more residents again, because that false information wasn't out there. So you do want to do that not just for SEO, but also to protect the name and good reputation of your business. So add that to that. Yeah. So I didn't mean to hijack you there. I just had an actual thing I knew about what you were saying worked. Well, we've been talking to john Vong. Am I saying that correctly? I should, yes. Okay. Great. And he's with local SEO search.ca because he's Canadian. Right. So local SEO search.ca. And we're getting to almost getting close to the end. So Brain, did you have any? Some questions? Still? Yeah. Unknown Speaker  24:46  Well, I think that I noticed on your site, you have a free site audit. So why don't you tell us about how what that includes and how people can get and you know, get theirs, their site audited and how you can help? John Vuong  24:58  Yeah, so what we've been trying to do is give and help as many small medium sized businesses as possible. So usually with that someone inputs her website, usually it's a real business that's been in business for a while that is frustrated and need some more of a digital presence, right? Because we need to benchmark you, we need to figure out how we can help. And so we we kind of do a console, a phone conversation first, to see where you're at what you've done, and kind of analyze how we can help. Right? Yeah, because not only do we bring an SEO background and console, we actually go in a little bit deeper because of our business experience. Myself, yes, I have 10 plus years in sales and marketing working with thousands of businesses, but my VP of sales have worked with over you know, a couple thousand clients as well, but he was at Yellow Pages for 35 years. So his experience his insights in how to run a good Business is invaluable for a lot of business owners that are just starting, right. So we try to just help as much as possible. And that's what differentiates us from a lot of other competitors. Brain Price  26:11  Cool. Jennifer Gilgroic  26:12  Yeah, experience like that is really invaluable, especially when they've you've guys have seen it all. And really the best advertising is a good business. You know, you do what you say you're going to do, and you make people happy. And they tell their friends and I know there's the old adage, well, if they're unhappy, they'll tell everybody if they're happy, they're not gonna say word, but that's just being bitter. That's actually not true. People do talk about good experiences, and they do recommend, and even on Facebook, you have local here in Galveston, we have this Galveston is called Galveston gossip or something like that. There's like 60,000 people on it, and people gossip and they talk and they take pictures of things. And they even give shout outs but they also ask questions. Hey, guys, who do you know who can fix this? Or Who's your landscaper? My guys, not doing it anymore. I see that a lot. And people refer to that all the time. And that's just my little town. So you know, there's there's just running a good business and being good people will talk, they will talk and send you stuff. It's which is this. John Vuong  27:15  These are great forums and groups because once you are known and reputable, it's all about like cultivating more opportunity, right? So just do good end of the day, eventually things will come to you and be honest about it. Right? Like don't don't try to you know, do a fast one on people right? Or, you know me like they're so Jennifer Gilgroic  27:38  Basic but yeah. You're right. Don't pull a fast one on me but there's so much click and bead and there's so many people on social just trying to make it or hustle or whatever it is. Yeah, but are they real business owners like really? If you look at any athlete, pro athlete or any successful singer, they don't tell you what they've been doing for the last 20 years. yours. You see them at the pinnacle. So it's the same bit entrepreneurship like, no one sees me doing what I did for the last 20 years. They only see me at now. Right? But how many years of you know the grit and wrongness of hustling and door knocking cold calling and all those other things? sleepless nights and not paying for food? Like all these things, no one sees that, right?  Brain Price  28:26  Yeah, absolutely. Jennifer Gilgroic  28:29  Okay, so, as Connect, I'm going to set one more question before Tammy has to take us away but as Canadian who had to live in England, I want you to tell me what English food does there any English food that you particularly liked? Because, you know, back in the day, England was not known for its food. So I'm curious as what a Vietnamese Canadian living in England like for his food. I know that's off topic, but I just have to ask you. John Vuong  28:55  Know, I still love the chips there, which is fine. Yeah, but they were really greasy. They were like dripped in, you know, after you go to the local pub and uh huh. No, no. I mean, it was great. But because I was drunk, maybe but Jennifer Gilgroic  29:14  Man, you can't you can't beat it. Well, that's awesome. Well guys we've been talking to john von john is with local SEO search.ca. If you're a small or medium sized business owner and you're just racking your head, trying to figure out how to cut through the noise and increase your exposure, but you know, in the way that you need to get in more clients that you can take great care of, then go and see him at local SEO search.ca. And Tammy is going to give you more information about us. Thank you so much, John, for being on the show. It was just great Convo.  Brain Price  29:48  Thanks. I appreciate it  John Vuong  29:49  Thanks a lot Brian and Jennifer. Thank you. Tammy Geerling  29:51  Yeah, thank you, John. And thank you, Brian and Jennifer for hosting today. And we will have all of John's links in our show notes. And you can find us at leafy legal we are across all social media platforms and also podcast platforms. So thank you again so much for listening today. Hope you have a wonderful day and we will see you next time. Bye. Male Announcer  30:22  Attention real estate investors and entrepreneurs. Did you know that real estate investors are a primary target for lawsuits according to the National Survey of the court data 25% of Americans risk being sued in their lifetime. However, if you are a real estate investor, you have a 95% chance of being sued in the next 20 years. Leafy Legal Services helps you protect your assets and strategically grow your business and wealth LiFi legal services our experts at the series LLC and Delaware statutory trust to have the newest and most ideal legal structures for real estate investors leaving legal services at the most personalized and affordable solutions for setting up LLCs property owners are always at risk when it comes to their assets. anonymity is so important. If you own just a rental house and you own your home, you have to protect yourself and your properties from any potential legal issues. Leafy Legal Services have the right solutions to make sure you are happy and feel secure or they offer cost effective documentation that suits their client's needs for a free consultation and ebook visit levy legal services.com They are waiting to hear from you Leafy Legal Services.com. Female Announcer  31:35  Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Don't wait take action now. LiFi legal services calm protect your assets grow your business and manage your wealth.