Podcasts about sustainable dish

We've reached the final episode of the Sustainable Dish podcast, and I am joined by my friend Robb Wolf to help me close it out. During this casual conversation, we look back on how our ideologies and priorities have changed over the years - from the time of a dogmatic approach to Paleo to now when we are better able to incorporate nuance when it's needed. And it wouldn't be a conversation with Robb if we didn't debunk the latest study vilifying meat. The latest study from Harvard finds a correlation between red meat consumption and type 2 diabetes. Like other epidemiological studies before it, this, too falls apart once you start digging into the data. The chat concludes with an update from Robb about what's in the future for LMNT. And I report the latest news from GFJA. Episode resources and transcripts are available at www.sustainabledish.com. You can also watch this episode on YouTube: Episode 271: Fireside Chat with Robb Wolf   Episode Credits: Thank you to all who've made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers and James Connolly. Our producer is Emily Soape. And, of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Global Food Justice Alliance members, and listeners. GFJA members get free downloads, and you'll be helping get healthy protein like meat, fish, and eggs to food-insecure kids. Go to sustainabledish.com/join to support my work. And if you're looking for a guide to get your diet back on track so you feel your very best, plus learn more about meat's role in a healthy, sustainable, and ethical food system, check out Sustainavore. This is my signature course to help you eat for your health, the planet, and your values. For more information, head to Sustainavore and sign up!  

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS Submit your questions for the podcast here In this episode Robb chats with Diana Rodgers, co-author of Sacred Cow and founder of Sustainable Dish. They chat about a recent study out of Harvard that claims that eating two servings of meat per week increases risk for Type II Diabetes. They also chat about Diana's decision to wrap up the Sustainable Dish podcast and what's next on the horizon.  Show Notes: Red meat intake and risk of type 2 diabetes in a prospective cohort study of United States females and males   Sponsor: The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT. Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don't. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes Transcript: Coming soon...  

Will Harris, owner of White Oak Pastures, has been a guest on Sustainable Dish many times. This time, he is joined by his daughters, Jenni and Jodi. They are part of the 5th generation in this 6-generation family farm in Bluffton, Georgia. They've helped turn White Oak into more than a farm but a tourist destination. On this episode of the show, I chat with the Harris Family about how White Oak Pastures has evolved over the years and revitalized the town of Bluffton. Not only do they ship their high-quality meat all over the US, but they also offer: Home goods made from byproducts from their herds,  Workshops and educational events for those who want to learn more about regen ag  A full-scale restaurant that serves 3 meals a day, 7 days a week, featuring ingredients fresh from the farm And an RV park and cabin rentals so you can see it all for yourself Will latest project is his book, A Bold Return to Giving a Damn: One Farm, Six Generations in the Future of Food. It's out now! I am asking my community to go out and get the book immediately. First-week sales are critical in helping a book get on bestseller lists. This is not simple for the accolades. When a book is distinguished on these lists, it brings the media, which means more attention to the regenerative agriculture movement. Let's work together to get the word out. Then, come back and listen in while I chat with Will, Jenni, and Jodi. Episode resources and transcripts are available at www.sustainabledish.com. You can also watch this episode on YouTube: Episode 268: White Oak Pastures   Episode Credits: Thank you to all who've made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers and James Connolly. Our producer is Emily Soape. And, of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Global Food Justice Alliance members, and listeners. GFJA members get free downloads and you'll be helping get healthy protein like meat, fish, and eggs to food-insecure kids. Go to sustainabledish.com/join to support my work. And if you're looking for a guide to get your diet back on track so you feel your very best, plus learn more about meat's role in a healthy, sustainable, and ethical food system, check out Sustainavore. This is my signature course to help you eat for your health, the planet, and your values. For more information, head to Sustainavore and sign up!   Show support for the podcast by visiting our sponsors: LMNT LMNT is my favorite electrolyte company. It's a delicious blend of sodium, magnesium, and potassium to keep you hydrated better than water alone. It's sugar-free and has no dodgy ingredients. Electrolytes are also important in regulating your immune system, helping to keep you healthy during the colder months of cold and flu season.  You can place your order and free sample pack of flavors with any purchase at sustainabledish.com/LMNT  

It's about time y'all, Diana Rodgers is finally gracing us with her knowledge and expertise. She is the co-author of "Sacred Cow" with my buddy, Robb Wolf. Her website, Sustainable Dish, is also chock full of amazing resources for her favorite sustainable products from personal hygiene to Dry Farm Wines.  In this convo we get into many of the misconceptions around red meat and nutritional value of that, even at its worst, being far superior to any other protein source. She pulls no punches in discussing where so many people have gone awry in her eyes. We dip the toes into the vegan discussion as a whole, specifically during pregnancy. At the very least please eat eggs during pregnancy. Diana strongly recommends you dip your toe back into the meat eating realm. We talked about children's nutrition and I didn't even know that Italy actually tried to outlaw feeding your child a vegan diet. What's next for Diana? She's all over the world, talking to governments, and other entities about the actual carbon footprint of livestock. Not to mention the nutrient deficit that “green” legislature is costing humans by pushing Vegan initiatives.  Go support the cause and learn a ton from Diana at her course, Sustainavore.    ORGANIFI GIVEAWAY Keep those reviews coming in! Please drop a dope review and include your IG/Twitter handle and we'll get together for some Organifi even faster moving forward.   Connect with Diana: Website: Sustainabledish.com - GlobalFoodJustice.org  Instagram: @sustainabledish - @globalfoodjustice  Podcast: Sustainable Dish  Film/Book: Sacred Cow    Sponsors: Manna Vitality To get the absolute number one mineral replenishment in my arsenal head over to mannavitality.com and punch in “KKP” at checkout for 12% off! Organifi Go to organifi.com/kkp to get my favorite way to easily get the most potent blend of high vibration fruits, veggies and other goodies into your diet! Click that link and use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off your order! Cured Nutrition has a wide variety of stellar, naturally sourced, products. They're chock full of adaptogens and cannabinoids to optimize your meatsuit. You can get 20% off by heading over to www.curednutrition.com/KKP  using code “KKP” Mark Bell's Mind Bullet This Kratom Extract supplement supports your cognition like no other and that's not just because Mark's a homie. Get some over at mindbullet.com and use “KKP” at checkout for 20% off! To Work With Kyle Kingsbury Podcast   Connect with Kyle: Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App  Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys - @gardenersofeden.earth  Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn't.

Diana Rodgers is a registered dietitian from Concord, Mass. She has authored three books, most notably, “The Sacred Cow.” She hosts the Sustainable Dish podcast, plus she founded the Global Food Justice Alliance. This Alliance has quite a mission statement: to advocate for the right of all people to choose nutrient-dense foods such as meat, milk, and eggs, which are critical for nutritious, environmentally sustainable, and equitable food systems that can sustain both human life and the planet.Global Food Justice AllianceSacred CowPodcasts Archive - Sustainable DishEat Like a Sustainavore (thinkific.com)

James Connolly is a film producer (most recently - Sacred Cow), co-host of the Sustainable Dish podcast, avid reader, and passionate about food. It's hard to encapsulate this conversation in a description - we cover a lot of ground. At its core, it's the broad strokes of just how we ended up in our current paradigm. We start about 150 years ago, where we follow threads of the move from rural to urban environments and how the idea of ‘cleanliness' begins to take hold. We cover the Great Grain Robbery and the formation of commodities that would change the agricultural world and how technology has played a role in these early formation of food systems and how it's playing a role now, leading into a conversation of techno-utopias. James covers school systems, as someone who has run a non-profit for schools in New York, and how we're taught what to think, not how to think and the compulsory education experiment. We also dive into the history of medicalizing the human experience using some personal anecdotes around grief to explore the world of psychiatric medication and beyond. All of this leads into a discussion of the techno-utopia that we're often being marketed and the shape of the current food system. It's a big, rolling conversation filled with all the book recommendations you need to keep it going.We also talk about: Butchery through the lens of two butchersThe vilification of meat Effective Altruism & so much more (seriously, so much more)Timestamps: 09:30: The Sanitization of Humanity 18:54: The Poison Squad33:03: The Great Grain Robbery + Commodities 44:24: Techno-Utopias The Genesis of the Idea that Technology is the Answer55:01: Tunnel Vision in Technology, Carbon, and Beyond1:02:00: Food in Schools and Compulsory Education1:11:00: Medicalization of Human Experience1:51:00: Effective Altruism 2:11:00: Butchery 2:25:00: More Techno-Utopias Find James: Twitter: @jamescophoto Instagram: @primatekitchenPodcast: Sustainable Dish Reading/Watching List The Invention of Capitalism by Michael PerelmanDaniel Quinn's WorksThe Poison Squad by Deborah BlumMister Jones (film)Shibumi by Trevanian Dumbing Us Down: the Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling by John Taylor GattoThree Identical Strangers (film)Related Mind, Body, and Soil Episodes:

Today, we are excited to have an Advocacy episode! In these episodes, we'll cover topics around advocating for agriculture and interviewing changemakers in the industry who are passionate about ag. We've discussed the Global Anti-Meat Narrative before but never with a guest so gear up for a great episode. In today's episode of Combating the Global Anti-Meat Narrative, we cover several important topics including: Covering the facts about how animal protein is an essential part of our diet How to start advocating for agriculture and how it relates to our diet The real problem in today's food production and how food is marketed to consumers The lack of real information being shared about animal agriculture and what we can do to change that Check out this episode's show notes and links here: https://www.elevateyouragstory.com/blogposts/049-the-global-anti-meat-narrative-with-diana-rodgers-of-sustainable-dish  

Cancer is scary! And given the grim cancer statistics, it is likely that most of us will face our own cancer scare at some point in our lives, making this episode a must-listen.  Leigh Erin Connealy, M.D. is an expert in Integrative/Functional Medicine specializing in the prevention and treatment of cancer. With over 30 years of experience in medical care, Dr. Connealy uses patient-first methodology which requires treatment of the whole person and understanding that each case is unique.  Tune in to discover the doctor's advice on the role of healthy lifestyle habits in the prevention and treatment of cancer. Episode Credits: Thank you to all who've made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers and James Connelly. Our producer is Emily Soape. And of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Patreon supporters, and listeners. Thank you to Dry Farm Wines for their continued support of my work. They have a great selection of sparkling, whites, rosés, and reds. And when you visit sustainabledish.com/wine you can check out their latest special offer exclusively for listeners of the Sustainable Dish podcast. Episode resources and transcripts are available at www.sustainabledish.com

If you loved Sacred Cow or are just passionate about the sustainability movement, you are going to love the new film To Which We Belong. The documentary features farmers and ranchers from around the globe that are turning from conventional practices and embracing regenerative agriculture. On this episode, my co-host, James Connolly interviews Pamela Tanner Boll, director, and Lindsay Richardson, co-director and producer.  To Which We Belong is available for pre-order now on Apple TV and will release on Amazon, Apple TV, iTunes, GooglePlay, Youtube, and Vudu on May 10, 2022. Episode Credits: Thank you to all who've made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers and James Connelly. Our producer is Emily Soape. And of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Patreon supporters, and listeners. Thank you to Dry Farm Wines for their continued support of my work. They have a great selection of sparkling, whites, rosés, and reds. And when you visit sustainabledish.com/wine you can check out their latest special offer exclusively for listeners of the Sustainable Dish podcast. Episode resources and transcripts are available at www.sustainabledish.com

Frédéric Leroy, PhD is back on the podcast to give us an update on the Global Burden of Disease controversy. As many listeners know, he and his team wrote a letter to the GBD authors requesting evidence to show the justification for the 36-fold increase in deaths attributed to meat consumption. After months of fruitless effort to get their letter published, a response was finally received. Frédéric and I discuss the recent problematic trend in mainstream media of refusing to present dialogue that counters popular “science” in order to promote the anti-meat narrative.  Episode resources and transcripts are available at www.sustainabledish.com Episode Credits: Thank you to all who've made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers and James Connelly. Our producer is Emily Soape. And of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Patreon supporters, and listeners. Thank you to Dry Farm Wines for their continued support of my work. Their wines are all-natural and low in alcohol which means less of a foggy feeling the next day. They have a great selection of sparkling, whites, rosés, and reds. And when you visit sustainabledish.com/wine you can check out their latest special offer exclusively for listeners of the Sustainable Dish podcast.

Alexandra Bregman is a freelance writer, specializing in the art world. Her latest book, The Bouvier Affair: A True Story, centers around, Russian oligarch, Dmitry Rybolovlev, as the alleged victim of a complex art fraud perpetrated by his art advisor Yves Bouvier. My co-host, James Connolly interviews Alexandra about the connections between the consolidated wealth in the art world and the power the uber-rich have in many aspects of life. This is something we see in the food landscape - the rich and powerful making decisions that trickle down to everyone.  Episode resources and transcripts are available at www.sustainabledish.com Episode Credits: Thank you to all who've made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers and James Connelly. Our producer is Emily Soape. And of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Patreon supporters, and listeners. Thank you to Dry Farm Wines for their continued support of my work. Their wines are all-natural and low in alcohol which means less of a foggy feeling the next day. Plus, the non-irrigated vineyards force the roots to dig deep in search of water allowing the grapes to absorb extra minerals. Give Dry Farm Wines a try if you've given up on wine because of how you feel the next day or if you are simply looking for high-quality, all-natural wine.  They have a great selection of sparkling, whites, rosés, and reds. And when you visit sustainabledish.com/wine you can check out their latest special offer exclusively for listeners of the Sustainable Dish podcast.

Jessie Inchauspe, better known as The Glucose Goddess is on the show today to share science-backed tips and advice on how to improve physical and mental health.  Her information is based on years of diving into the research and self-experimenting to translate what works into actionable and accessible steps for anyone. Many of the steps are so simple, that you can start doing them today.  Episode resources and transcripts are available at www.sustainabledish.com Thank you to all who've made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers and James Connelly. Our producer is Emily Soape. And of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Patreon supporters, and listeners. Thank you to Dry Farm Wines for their continued support of my work. Their wines are all-natural and low in alcohol which means less of a foggy feeling the next day. Plus, the non-irrigated vineyards force the roots to dig deep in search of water allowing the grapes to absorb extra minerals. Give Dry Farm Wines a try if you've given up on wine because of how you feel the next day or if you are simply looking for high-quality, all-natural wine.  They have a great selection of sparkling, whites, rosés, and reds. And when you visit sustainabledish.com/wine you can check out their latest special offer exclusively for listeners of the Sustainable Dish podcast.

This week Tayla is joined by two nutrition experts, Kathi Masi and Isabel Burnett to talk about healthy eating. They discuss some basic guidelines for making healthy choices about food. They also talk about book club reading, DIY shows, and Jim Gaffigan. During The Last Chapter they discuss the question: You are embarking on a year long spiritual retreat/journey and the only personal possessions you can bring are a change of clothes, a toothbrush and one book. What is the book? Like what you hear? Rate and review Down Time on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice! If you'd like to submit a topic for The Last Chapter you can send your topic suggestions to downtime@cranstonlibrary.org. Our theme music is Day Trips by Ketsa and our ad music is Happy Ukulele by Scott Holmes. Thanks for listening! Book Autoimmune Wellness Handbook by Mickey Trescott Exit West by Mohsin Hamid Ishmael by Daniel Quinn The Paris Library by Janet Skeslien Charles The Personal Librarian by Marie Benedict and Victoria Christopher Murray The Guest List by Lucy Foley The Little Book of Cottagecore by Emily Kent AV Bad Vegan (2022) The Blacklist (2013- ) Death in the Garden (podcast) A Millennials Guide to Saving the World (podcast) Food and Faith (podcast) Sustainable Dish (podcast) Move Your DNA (podcast) Worst Year Ever (podcast) The Doctor's Farmacy (podcast) WildFed (podcast) Tangentially Speaking (podcast) The Wild Health Podcast (podcast) Family Dinner (2021- ) Flea Market Flip (2012- ) Taste the Nation with Padma Lakshmi (2020- ) A Chef's Life (2013-2018) Ali Wong: Don Wong (2022) Jim Gaffigan Other RI Parent Information Network (ripin.org) Supersized Wellness on Facebook and Instagram

This episode is brought to you by Rupa Health and Athletic Greens. There's no doubt that factory farming should be illegal, but that is a far cry from stating that all meat is bad. Grass-fed beef is extremely different from conventionally raised beef. In other words, the way your meat is raised matters. In today's episode, I talk with Chris Kresser, Robb Wolf, Diana Rodgers, and Nicolette Niman about the myths and stigmas surrounding red-meat consumption, how to choose sustainably raised meat, and much more. Chris Kresser M.S., L.Ac., is the codirector of the California Center for Functional Medicine, founder of the Kresser Institute, creator of ChrisKresser.com, and the New York Times bestselling author of The Paleo Cure and Unconventional Medicine. He is one of the most respected clinicians and educators in the fields of Functional Medicine and ancestral health and has trained over 1,500 clinicians and health coaches in his unique approach. Robb Wolf, a former research biochemist, is the two-time New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling author of The Paleo Solution and Wired to Eat. Robb is the cofounder of The Healthy Rebellion, a social movement with the goal of liberating 1 million people from the sick-care system. Robb is the executive producer of the film Sacred Cow. Diana Rodgers, RD, is a “real food” nutritionist living on a working organic farm near Boston, Massachusetts. She's an author, runs a clinical nutrition practice, hosts the Sustainable Dish podcast, and is an advisory board member of Animal Welfare Approved and Savory Institute. Her new book, Sacred Cow: The Case For Better Meat, and the film she directed and produced, also called Sacred Cow, are available. Nicolette Hahn Niman is a writer, attorney, and livestock rancher. She has authored the books Defending Beef and Righteous Porkchop, as well as numerous essays for The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and the Los Angeles Times. Previously, she was Senior Attorney for the environmental organization Waterkeeper, where she focused on agriculture and food production; before that, she was an environmental lawyer for the National Wildlife Federation. Today, she lives in Northern California with her two sons and her husband, Bill Niman, founder of the natural-meat companies Niman Ranch and BN Ranch. This episode is brought to you by Rupa Health and Athletic Greens. Rupa Health is a place where Functional Medicine practitioners can access more than 2,000 specialty lab tests from over 20 labs. You can check out a free, live demo with a Q&A or create an account at RupaHealth.com. Right now when you purchase AG1 from Athletic Greens, you will receive 10 FREE travel packs with your first purchase by visiting athleticgreens.com/hyman. Full-length episodes of these interviews can be found here:Chris KresserRobb Wolf and Diana RodgersNicolette Niman See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Diana Rodgers is a registered dietitian, nutritionist, and host of the "Sustainable Dish" podcast. Robb Wolf is a former research biochemist, author, and co-host of "The Healthy Rebellion" radio podcast, alongside his wife Nicki Violetti. They are the co-authors of "Sacred Cow: The Case for (Better) Meat," a companion book to the documentary of the same name

My co-author and friend, Robb Wolf, and I are back again with another Fireside Chat (or is it a campfire chat?) where we get into current events and the latest research articles about food and nutrition.  And despite a bad internet connection, we get into a couple of great topics this time. First, we catch up on all the new happenings at Sustainable Dish - The new website relaunch - I'm hiring for a Digital Marketing Manager. Check out the job description here. - The all-new Sustainavore Course coming soon. Stay tuned for details (full credit to Robb for the name) - The shout out from Bear Grylls We then get into why the “Less Meat, Better Meat” concept should die and cover these big current topics in research and the news: - A new paper on how eating meat affects linear growth in kids and why it's important. You can read more about the science on the Global Food Justice Alliance here - The Starbucks “Justice Cup” hoax and a quick fact check. You can read the Starbucks response here. Tune in to hear Robb and me break it all down.  Resources: John Sapp and the Roam Free Bison Ranch Bear Grylls  Captain Fantastic Global Food Justice Alliance Connect with Robb: Website: The Healthy Rebellion Instagram: @dasrobbwolf LinkedIn: Robb Wolf Facebook: RobbWolf.com Twitter: @robbwolf YouTube: Robb Wolf *** Episode Credits: Thank you to all who've made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers and James Connelly. Our producer is Meg Chatham, and our editor is Emily Soape. And of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Patreon supporters, and listeners.

As I have mentioned before, what we wear plays as much of a part in sustainability as what we eat.  Along with leather, wool is a natural fiber that can be used to create earth-friendly, fashionable pieces that are long-lasting. On this episode of the podcast, I am joined by Edzard Van Der Wyck, co-founder of Sheep, Inc. Since 2017, Sheep, Inc has been making “contemporary knitwear that has a positive impact on the world.” This mission is completed through solar powered manufacturing, carbon-negative raw materials, and well-cared for sheep.  Join our conversation to learn: - How Edzard got started in the fashion industry and how Sheep Inc came to be - The problems with fast fashion  - The process of finding sustainable materials - Cashmere versus Merino wool - The self-cleaning nature of Merino wool - How Sheep Inc is able to have a carbon negative impact through optimizing their supply chain - All about the adopt-a-sheep program - How comparing wool to slavery or the holocaust is inaccurate and unjust - Why sheep need to be shorn once a year - How the wool is treated affects the feel - The unique marketing approach of Sheep Inc and gender neutral quality of the products - How you eventually pay the price for things in one way or another - All of Sheep Inc's Impact Program where 5% of revenue goes to regenerative projects - How Covid has encouraged people to make more meaningful purchases Resources: - Heist Studios - Sustainable Dish Episode 14: Director Michael Matheson Miller of Poverty Inc. - The Copenhagen Institute of Interaction Design (CIID) - ZQRX program Connect with Edzard: Website: Sheep Inc. Instagram: @sheepinc LinkedIn: Edzard van der Wyck Twitter: @evdwyck *** Episode Credits: Thank you to all who've made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers, Lauren Manning, and James Connelly. Our producer is Meg Chatham, and our editor is Emily Soape. And of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Patreon supporters, and listeners. A big thanks to Nakano Knives for their support of my work and the podcast. I've been using their knives for a couple of years now and I love them. They are beautiful, easy to hold, and a fantastic value. And just in time for the holidays, you can use my offer code DIANA for 10% off plus get a $25 voucher toward your next purchase. Who doesn't love a new knife, right?   

Today's episode is a little bit different. I wanted the opportunity to talk about current events, topics that need deep exploration, or catch-up with friends. So, I am starting Fireside Chats, intimate conversations with people in my inner circle, like my co-host James Connolly, and Robb Wolf, my co-author of Sacred Cow.  This first chat was sparked by responses I received from my Instagram post a few days ago. You can read the original post here and my response here. James and I talk about our feelings surrounding the food landscape in which we find ourselves living and how the food industry, specifically ultra processed foods, is using activist language in order to sell products.  These tactics create a right versus wrong situation absent of all nuance, which leads to fights over language and word use rather than allowing us to get to the heart of the issue. As a dietitian, it is my job to identify foods that are better sources of nutrients than other foods. Those of you that have been following my work for some time, know that I look at diet holistically considering many factors. For folks new to Sustainable Dish, I would encourage you to read my post on foods that are more expensive and less nutritious than grass-fed beef. Or listen to previous podcast episodes featuring experts in the field of climate change, sustainable farming, and other issues that impact human health (like poverty). James and I continue our conversation discussing: -Michelle Obama and the Let's Move campaign leading to the Everything in Moderation mantra -Processed food's predatory nature on communities -The importance of diving deeper into the issue and determining how less nutritious foods came to be culturally appropriate foods -How the potato became a part of Irish culture as a way to control the Irish -How food groups are made up -Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and its effect on people's food choices -How food access is only one factor when it comes to eating healthfully -The Universal Basic Income experiment that led to positive health outcomes -How stressors prevent you from making choices that lead to a better health future -A study of pregnant women from India that associated vegetarianism with positive pregnancy outcomes without considering class, economic status, or healthcare access. -What James is up to now What Diana is up to now -Resources: The Four Agreements Food Compass Study Sacred Cow Wired to Eat by Robb Wolf Utopia for Realists by Rutger Bregman Death in the Garden with Jake Marquez and Maren Morgen White Oak Pastures Sustainable Dish Episode 164: Will Harris of White Oak Pastures   Center for Agricultural Resilience (CFAR) Jason Rowntree at Michigan State University Sustainable Dish Episode 167: Dr. Tony Hampton Connect with James:  Website: The Primate Kitchen Instagram: @primatekitchen Twitter: @jamescophoto *** Episode Credits: Thank you to all who've made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers, Lauren Manning, and James Connolly. Our producer is Meg Chatham, and our editor is Emily Soape. And of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Patreon supporters, and listeners.

RELEASING THE HOT FAVOURITES FROM THE HEALTH EVOLUTION PODCAST! TRANSCRIPT BELOW What a treat getting to chat to this man! In this podcast you will learn where things are going wrong with our health today, and what we can do about it. When we can understand the lever that is insulin - and thus insulin resistance - we gain back a lot of control over our own health. In terms of the lipid values we talked about: In the US, values are expressed as mg/dl: Ben was talking that the ratio of triglycerides to HDL should be less than 1.5. In Australia, values are expressed as mmol/L, the ratio of trigs to HDL should be less than 0.87. I encourage you to buy Ben's book: Why We Get Sick. It is an an excellent read, and while he is a Professor, he puts things in really easy to understand terms. A true gentleman and a lovely man in every way. Benjamin Bikman earned his Ph.D. in Bioenergetics and was a postdoctoral fellow with the Duke-National University of Singapore in metabolic disorders. Currently, his professional focus as a scientist and associate professor (Brigham Young University) is to better understand the role of elevated insulin in regulating obesity and diabetes, including the relevance of ketones in mitochondrial function. You can find Ben on all channels of social media, and here on his website: BIKMANLAB.BYU.EDU. ******** http://www.traceymcbeath.com.au tracey@traceymcbeath.com.au Instagram: @tracey_mcbeath_healthcoach Facebook: Tracey McBeath Health Coach To purchase the Summit Replay: http://bit.ly/longweekendreplay If you are a health practitioner and are interested in learning how to bring low carb in to your practice and reverse insulin resistance in your patients, the Nutrition Network has a number of programs to help. For GP's; Dietitians; Nurses and Health Coaches. The Nutrition Network is run by the Noakes Foundation. To learn more, click here: http://bit.ly/nutritionnetwork   Dr Ben Bikman (00:00): It's suffice it to say, virtually every chronic disease has some connection to insulin resistance where the insulin resistance is either explicitly causing the problem, or it's exacerbating it, or accelerating the problem. Tracey (00:13): Hello everyone, and welcome to the health evolution podcast. This is episode 66 and you are so in for a treat today. What an amazing chat I had with the incredible Dr. Ben Bickman, who has so much knowledge. Not only that, he puts this knowledge into such easy to understand terms. So this whole podcast, is talking about why we get sick. It's the title of the new book he has recently produced, and I highly recommend that you buy this book. It is amazing, and there's so much information in here. So that's really what we're going to be talking about. And of course, looking at the fundamental cause of many modern diseases today, which is the fact that our insulin isn't working the way it should. And that's due to lifestyle, genetics, a whole range of conditions that we also talk about. So these are things like type two diabetes, some cancers, heart disease; a lot of stuff that in today's modern world, we attribute to other causes and we just treat the symptoms. Tracey (01:19): But when you look at the reasons and the causes of these diseases - insulin resistance being the number one, and you know that it's actually possible to reverse and turn that around with lifestyle changes, then this podcast holds so much hope. So enjoy it. And I'd like to say a huge thank you to my friend, Carmel, who was kind enough to reach out and offer to do the transcribing for these podcasts. So I will release the podcasts as I get them done. And then when Carmel has the time to do the transcript, she will do that. And I will add it in as soon as it's done. So thank you, Carmel. I love the community I'm involved in. Thank you to you for listening to the podcast. Please, you can do me a favor by rating, by making a nice comment and by sharing this podcast so we can help as many people as possible see the potential that is a health evolution . Tracey McBeath (02:37): Today on the health evolution collective I'm here with Dr. Ben, big Ben, what an honor to have you here on my show. Thank you so much. Ben (02:45): Oh, Tracey. It is my pleasure. Thanks for the thanks for the invitation. Tracey :50): Oh, absolutely. So I have been following you for quite some time now. I absolutely love the work you do, and the way you present it to people. It just is so easy to understand, and you give people so much; so much information to help them with their health. Before we get into your talking about your awesome book, 'Why We Get Sick', can you just share a little bit about, I guess, you know, you're a scientist and professor, but what's led you to writing this book, 'Why We Get Sick'. Ben (03:20): Yeah, again, thanks for the invitation and for the introduction. My focus as a scientist is in general terms, metabolic health, but it was a bit of an unexpected route. Although it didn't take me long to get on it, but my initial graduate work was focused on muscle cells. And I was curious about the process whereby a muscle cell, well, muscles would get bigger and better. But by the end of my masters degree, I was actually far more interested in fat cells. Around that time, a few years prior to me doing a masters degree, I had stumbled across this study that explored the endocrine features of fat cells. Basically it was this to me, a discovery that fat cells actually release hormones, release proteins, and that some of these proteins are pro-inflammatory proteins. And that at the time , was thought to be really the single variable in how someone could be obese, and that would start spilling into type two diabetes. Ben  (04:23): It was this obesity induced insulin resistance, which started as a research interest in muscle cells that quickly shifted to a research focus on fat cells. And now I'd say that it's really the tissue or the cells that I focus on most as a cell biologist, namely the fat cells. My focus now is, what are the variables that are stimulating growth of fate cells, the shrinking of fat cells, and fat cells behaving entirely differently; you know the metabolic rate difference. That means I focus a lot on the hormone, insulin, because you really can't understand a fat cell without looking at it, at least partially through the lens of insulin. Tracey (05:11): Now we are going to really understand what insulin is and the term insulin resistance. This is talked about a lot, but I think a lot of people don't really understand this. But before we do, can I ask you, people also talk about metabolic health and I've been guilty of that; you know, I had someone say to me the other day, what do you mean by metabolic health? What does that actually mean? Can you explain that a little bit? Ben  (05:33): Right. I suppose metabolic health probably has a different definition according to every kind of biomedical scientist or clinician. To me, I suppose the simplest definition of metabolic health would be that the person is insulin sensitive. But if that's still a little too vague, then I would say metabolic health would be someone having an OK grade, if you will, on the five variables that are conventionally used to indicate the metabolic syndrome. And so in other words, the metabolic health would be someone who has a normal waist circumference (so if they measured their fatness around their waist,) and then second, they have a normal blood glucose, and normal blood pressure. Then the last two are basically just normal lipid levels - normal triglycerides and HDL cholesterol. Those five variables constitute the constellation of what's called the metabolic syndrome. And so I suppose if we use that as a foundation, we could say in turn, well metabolic health then is being OK in all of those categories. But the truth of the matter is back to my original answer. All of those things are very much related to; insulin resistance when they go poorly, or if they're working well, then it's an insulin sensitive person. Tracey  (06:54): Makes a lot of sense. So obviously when we're talking about metabolic health, i.e. how our body can make energy, and how it functions, then when we can have those conditions (our body is not functioning optimally); we're tired, we don't have a lot of energy because our body is basically struggling to keep us well . Ben  (07:10): That's right. But something you said also prompted another thought, one other perhaps definition of metabolic health would be based on this idea of fuel or energy that you mentioned. So for example, well specifically that would be someone who has metabolic flexibility. At its simplest, it's just this idea that the human metabolism or our energy needs, can shift between the two primary metabolic fuels; that when we've eaten a meal, we go to a glucose burning or sugar burning, you know, blood sugar, that being the primary fuel that the body is using. And then several hours after eating, in other words, getting into this at least mild state of fasting, then we shift to predominantly obtaining most of our energy from fat. So we go to fat burning if you will. So this ability to shift from glucose burning to fat burning very readily when we eat and when we aren't eating, that is a good, also a good definition of metabolic health. But again, that idea is metabolic flexibility. But once again, even that can be seen through the lens of insulin in so far as insulin dictates what fuel we're using. Tracey (08:19): Okay. So let's learn about insulin. So I think firstly, what is its role? I know in the book you go into a lot of detail and I definitely encourage people listening to get the book and really understand it. But just in terms of a brief summary on this amazing hormone. Ben (08:38): Yes, it is amazing. And I think it really is unappreciated given how relevant it is in so much health and disease. Ben  (08:46): The most obvious effect or role of insulin is to control blood glucose. And that's how most people understand it. And that's okay. That's fine, because it is a very powerful influence. It is really the single hormone that will lower blood glucose. Whereas, there are multiple other hormones that will increase blood glucose. So it does its job well. Now it's helped with other processes in the body that can also act to lower blood glucose, but that is the most sort of poster child example of what insulin does, it lowers blood glucose. But the truth is far more complicated and that's because insulin affects every cell in the body. Literally every cell in our bodies has insulin receptors. So these little sites where the hormone insulin can come in and dock and bind and then tell the cell to do something. Ben  (09:39): And because every cell in the body has these insulin receptors and the various cells in the body play different roles, they do different things. It's not surprising that insulin will do different things at different cells. But the theme of it, the general theme across all of the cells of the body is that insulin tells the cells what to do with energy. It can not only stimulate the uptake of energy in most cells, but it will also then tell that cell what to do with it. And once again, the theme of that is, storage. Insulin wants to store energy and even to the point that it will lower metabolic rate in the body to help the body store more energy. So insulin abhors wasting it abhors breaking things down. It just wants to build things up, including fat in our fat cells and have it get locked away untouched by the body. Tracey (10:34): So without insulin, then obviously we wouldn't be here. If we think about our evolution in times of when food we had to hunt for it, today we don't have to do anything for it, apart from a walk to the supermarket. Without insulin, we wouldn't have got through winter. Ben (10:50): Absolutely. We would have no kind of metabolic insurance, if you will. We would have no energy storage, if it weren't for insulin. It is impossible, to my knowledge. For any organism, from fruit flies to humans, and every other less complicated organisms and humans, and more complicated organisms than fruit flies; insulin must be present and indeed elevated in order for that organism to store any energy. I don't believe it is possible in any other, without insulin. You take away the insulin and immediately this is an organism that loses its ability to store energy in any way, including energy in the liver. And very obviously, loses the ability to store any energy in fat cells. Tracey (11:40): Where has it gone wrong. So you talk in the book, well Jason Fung talks about how, you know, how this has changed so much over probably only really a few generations. I mean, it used to be, you know, we got sick, from dysentery and diseases and things like that. So how has it changed, and why has it changed and what does it have to do with insulin? Ben  (12:02): Right. We see obesity strictly through this calorie centric paradigm or perspective. So we look at the fat cell regulation only in the context of, is energy being used or stored, as if the fat cell is just the simple kind of bank account idea. It's just these deposits and withdrawals that are just happening passively. Almost as if the energy we eat it, just comes into the fat cell and comes out when we need it. But that is just not true. We are far more complicated organisms. In order to understand human obesity, I strongly believe we need to consider, yes energy, calories, but also hormones. If we take hormones out of this equation we are doomed, because then we just fall into this cycle of failure of trying to starve ourselves to weight loss. And to your point a moment ago, in this environment in today's world, hunger will always win. Ben (13:05): I stole this analogy from Gary Taubes, a very wonderful author. I'd recommend anyone ,after they read my book, go read some of Gary's books. They're wonderful, but he once shared this and then I stole it and I share it with my students. When I discuss obesity in my patho-physiology class, I present this caloric paradigm and then we start poking holes in it. I show them some of the data that challenges that it is just purely a caloric imbalance. I present this analogy, which is, that I'm having the best chefs in the world come to my home. Everyone's invited. I want you to come as hungry as possible. What would you do to make sure you came to this glorious buffet as hungry as possible? And invariably my hundred and 30 clever young undergraduates come to these two ideas. Ben  (13:57): And that is that they would exercise more in the time preceding the dinner and they would eat less. Exercise, more, eat less; these are the two pillars of the current dietary advice that we give people when we need them to lose weight, but hunger always wins. In this environment of readily accessible food, hunger will win. Now, I'm not saying there's no role for discipline and denial of indulgence. I do think that's very important, but I think we can help the person through that, by not forcing hunger on them all the time. And when someone realizes that, they can start leveraging, changing their insulin levels in order to favour this process. They don't have to be hungry; they can be eating in such a way that keeps their insulin down. You are then allowing the fat cells to share their energy, their fat ,with the body to be used and you also shift into that highest rate of fat burning and your metabolic rate, actual accounting for calories, which a caloric purist wants to do. The metabolic rate goes up even to the point where it can raise by almost 300 calories per day, if someone's eating meals that are keeping insulin low. So addressing the endocrine aspect of obesity, namely insulin, I think that the person really has a very effective tool that they now can use that they wouldn't have had otherwise, if they're were just focusing purely on calorie number. Tracey (15:26): Well, you've just really given us all a great reason to drop the belief that we have to be hungry in order to lose weight, because I see it every day. It's one of the biggest challenges with most of my clients, you know, getting them to see that we actually can lose weight. And in fact, we do it so much easier when we are not hungry. And it does come from manipulating insulin if you like, understanding it, working with it, working with those hormones in our body. It's a huge thing because I know certainly until I was 40, that's how I thought. And I was a personal trainer then, and I was continuing to spread that myth that it is about calories in calories out. And if you're not feeling hungry, you're not going to be losing weight. What a revelation to see, we don't have to do that. Ben  (16:13): The nuances with insulin and obesity, I certainly touch on that in my book, but there are some other wonderful books, including Jason Fung and Gary Tobbs that I would recommend anyone read to just get more of a well rounded idea of obesity.Because while I certainly touch on that, and I'm a fat cell scientist, I look at it more in the context of overall disease in the book. Tracey (16:34): Absolutely. So then what happens when things go wrong with insulin? And one of the scariest things I read, was that most people are actually walking around, not even realizing that insulin isn't working, that they have insulin resistance. Ben (16:50): It is, I consider it the most common or widespread disorder in the world. And so we are not only, not diagnosing it correctly, but we're also not appreciating its role in other diseases, which means we're missing the potential to treat a patient much, much better. And so basically with insulin resistance, the simplest definition, and you kind of mentioned this, it's just when insulin isn't working the right way at various cells in the body. Now at some cells , insulin's working perfectly fine, but at other cells it is not. And that imbalance actually becomes a problem. And we appreciate the fact that in a body that is insulin resistant, insulin levels themselves are much, much higher than before. So those two features come together; insulin isn't working the right way throughout the body, and insulin levels themselves or itself is much higher. So some cells that are continuing to respond to insulin normally now are hyperactive with their insulin. Ben (17:54): Insulin is now telling the cell to do too much, and the cell is sensitive to that signal, so it keeps doing too much. Then there other cells that aren't really getting the signal very well at all. So those two variables are what comes into play, making insulin resistance, the problem that it is. And in this, we could almost, as you know, from going through the book, it is shocking how many diseases, chronic diseases that we think would have no metabolic origins actually have at their core, an unavoidable metabolic origin. For example, the hyperinsulinemia that comes with the high insulin levels that someone has an insulin resistance. If we look at what that does to the ovaries in a woman, it's profound. The most common form of infertility in women, is a disease called polycystic ovarian syndrome. Ben  (18:45): The woman is going through the menstrual cycle. The ovaries are developing a lot of little eggs every month, but in order for all the rest of the eggs to go away, one of them must ovulate. And with that one egg ovulating from one of the ovaries, then all the other kind of budding little eggs will go away. But in the absence of one ovulating, all of those little eggs stick around and they become these big cysts in the ovaries. That problem happens because the woman doesn't get this big estrogen spike, which she needs immediately proceeding ovulation, this big estrogen spike, and one other hormone. Well, many hormones come into play, but estrogen spike is a big one. Too much insulin blocks the ovaries from making that big estrogen spike. Insulin inhibits the process whereby, in fact this is fascinating, but all estrogen hormones were once testosterone, the ovaries convert the testosterone into the estrogens. Ben (19:43): And this happens in men and women. Of course, in women, it happens more in women, thus having higher estrogen levels than men. But that one enzyme that mediates that conversion from testosterone to estrogens is inhibited by insulin. And so the woman who has insulin resistance and high insulin levels at her ovaries, the insulin is directly preventing that big estrogen surge, preventing ovulation. And as a background problem, when she has too much testosterone she'll start to have other problems like more coarse body hair, for example, or acne like you might have in an adolescent boy, who's going through a big testosterone surge. So that's a problem with the ovaries. When we look at the brain, some of the brain's energy comes from glucose from the blood, and insulin mediates some of that movement of the glucose into the brain. Ben (20:36): And so when the brain becomes insulin resistant, it can't get enough of its energy from glucose anymore. And so there's this kind of gap of energy. You know, the brain's energetic need is up here. Glucose used to give all of it to the brain, but now the brains become insulin resistant. And now we have this gap where the glucose can't meet the need, and the person starts to develop brain disorders, including Alzheimer's disease and including migraines, frankly, even migraines are looked at as a bit of an energetic deficit in the brain. So I could keep going. We can talk about muscles, bones, joints, liver, kidneys, eyes; it's suffice it to say virtually every chronic disease has some connection to insulin resistance where the insulin resistance is either explicitly causing the problem or it's exacerbating it or accelerating the problem. Tracey (21:26): So what I find interesting with what you're saying there, that there isn't a neat and homogenous condition. You know, it's not that you're either insulin resistant or you're not, it is a spectrum. And as you said, clearly it affects the body in different parts and in different ways. I just wanted to ask, is that kind of potluck. So if I was insulin resistant in the brain versus somebody else in their ovaries, is that a genetic thing? Is it just pot-luck? How does that work? Ben (21:54): Yeah. That's a great question. There could certainly be some instances of that happening, but that would be very uncommon. The common process would be that the fat cells become insulin resistant first. So there is no total consensus on this. So I'd want anyone to sort of take this with a grain of salt where I'm speculating a bit, but at the risk of sounding smug, it's informed speculation. So I think the fat cells become insulin resistant first, that's the first domino to fall, but then it starts bumping into the other dominoes or basically spreading that insulin resistance around throughout the body. And then what would cause someone to then have say, the ovaries get affected before the liver would, for example, if we take two organs that are just right around the same area; I don't know. Ben (22:46): I'm not sure what would predispose one, what the next issue would be versus the other. But in general, I think it would be safe to assume that the fat cells are the first to become insulin resistant. And as they become insulin resistant, they start leaking fat throughout the body and they start leaking those pro-inflammatory proteins that I mentioned earlier, these what's called cytokines. And those two things are really the key variables, the key parts of the equation that equals insulin resistance; the leaking of fat, the free fatty acids from fat cells and the fat cells leaking these pro-inflammatory proteins. As these start to spread through the body, they cause other tissues to become insulin resistant. Tracey (23:27): So that leaking of fat is that triglyceride marker, is it? Ben (23:31): So actually these fats would be the free fatty acids. So when the the fat cells are breaking down their fats, they are leaked as free fatty acids. The triglycerides are predominantly coming from the fat we make in the liver, which is again, another insulin signal telling the liver to make triglycerides. Tracey (23:52): Okay. All right. So what I'm hearing from you here is that insulin resistance, isn't just a risk factor for type two diabetes. We haven't actually really even touched on that yet. You've talked about all of these other conditions that insulin resistance is the precursor for be it, most people will tend to think that it's type two diabetes that is the biggest risk factor, or the only thing we're likely to get if we're insulin resistance, but that's clearly not the case. Ben (24:22): No, that's right. Yeah. In fact, it's far from a guarantee that the person would progress to full on type two diabetes. What is far more likely is that they would have hypertension, so high blood pressure, fatty liver disease. Then a woman would have polycystic ovarian syndrome; a man would have erectile dysfunction that's also a common early symptom or sign of insulin resistance. Yes. So waiting and that's part of the problem. And I do emphasize the word waiting. When we look at insulin resistance strictly through the lens of type two diabetes, it is unfair to the hormone insulin, which I believe is the more relevant one. And we shift our focus to glucose. But the tragedy of that perspective, if we look at all metabolic health, just through the lens of glucose, as if it's like a progression just towards type two diabetes; then we're only looking at the glucose and we fail to acknowledge the reality that behind the scenes underlying that normal glucose is this ever increasing insulin level where the body has to work harder and harder. Ben  (25:28): The insulin has to work harder and harder in order to keep that glucose in check. That is the insulin resistance. In other words, if we looked at the insulin, we would have detected the problem potentially decades, 10 or 20 years before the glucose would have changed, but we don't look at insulin. It has not made its way into just the common clinical diagnostic. When someone comes in for a conventional or just routine lab visit, we always measure glucose. We always measure the lipids. And I think those are fine. They certainly have value, but if we really want to detect insulin resistance, we've got to bring in insulin. We have to allow it into the discussion Tracey (26:10): We do. But as you say, it's not a standard test. In fact, just yesterday, a client told me that a doctor refused to check it, because I give a recommended list of what are their blood tests to go and ask for from your doctor, and one of them is fasting insulin. No, doctor wouldn't do it. When you understand what you're saying, that this is going to tell us what's going on with our metabolic health, 10 to 20 years prior to being diagnosed with type two diabetes. We know PCO for females that usually teenagers are getting that. And then of course, breast cancer is another one I know you've spoken about and being mostly women, listening to these podcasts, that's something I'd love to talk about as well but why is this happening? Ben (26:52): I know isn't it. Well, I often say that it was forgivable. It was forgivable that the focus was exclusively on glucose because of two reasons. One, traditionally the most obvious sign of diabetes was the excessive urine production, what we call polyuria. The person was just urinating gallons and gallons of urine every day. And that was because of the high glucose. And we knew that even early physicians hundred thousands of years ago, because the urine was enriched with the glucose. They'd see animals, dogs would want to come and lick up that glucose and the flies with just swarm to it, to eat all those sugars from the urine. And so the most obvious symptom, polyuria, was directly a result of the high glucose levels. And then the second reason why it was forgivable is that scientifically we were able to measure glucose from the blood far, far earlier than we could ever measure insulin. Ben (27:51): So we had the technology to measure this molecule when we did not have the technology to measure insulin. And even nowadays, as you just mentioned, it's getting the insulin measure is not a simple test. It is a full on blood test at the lab. It often incurs a cost that depending on the healthcare model or in the U S the insurance that a person has, it might not get covered. And so the physician may be reluctant. Even if the physician appreciates the value of insulin, they may be reluctant simply because they know the insurance won't pay for this. I can't bill it and the patient doesn't want to pay for it. Then I have to get in a fight with the patient. So it's unfortunate, but given how it is getting easier and easier to measure insulin, these costs are coming down. It's getting less forgivable to not measure insulin. Ben (28:43): Now I will say there is a poor man's method where if someone has gone into their physician and gotten, or the clinic and gotten a blood test, if they can measure their triglyceride, they will almost always get a triglyceride number and an HDL cholesterol number. And they can take at least in the U S in the milligrams per deciliter. I don't know how it would equate with Millie Mueller in Australia. But if it's looked at with milligrams per deciliter, it's 1.5. If the triglyceride divided by HDL cholesterol is less than 1.5, it is a strong indicator that the person is insulin sensitive. So even if they don't get their insulin measured, if they meet that or below that 1.5 ratio of triglycerides to HDL cholesterol, then they're very likely. Tracey (29:30): Fantastic. I will put that down below in the show notes for people and I'll work it out. I've got a couple of clients in the U S, so yes, it can get a bit tricky. Ben (29:42): I'm from Canada originally, so I should be able to actually do this fluently, but I can't. I'm too American now. Tracey (29:47): Well, of course. So just going on then, from what you were saying, you can get a blood test and looking at your triglycerides and your HDL is one great one. And of course we've got the HBA1C which is another good marker. But what would be some of the signs we might be looking for in our body to give us an indicator that maybe we are insulin resistant? Ben (30:08): Yeah, so I believe the most obvious often is hypertension. If a person has high blood pressure and, they are even a little overweight like they have a bit of a bigger waist circumference, very likely they need look no further. They're very likely insulin resistant. There are some other signs that we see in some people, which is changes in the skin, Where if the person has a little more fat on them, they'll have a little bit of a ring around the back of their neck. And that is the most obvious spot that can also happen on the armpits, but they will start to have two skin changes. And this is typically more advanced insulin resistance, but they will have these little skin bumps called skin tags. And they do kind of bump up like a little stalk almost, like a little column of skin. And then they will have a dark and thickened more rough skin. And that's a condition called [inaudible] anthesis nigricans. But basically it's that the skin gets kind of darker and rough. Now, of course, on a pale fellow like myself, that becomes quite obvious. On the darker, the complexion, the darkening of the skin will become harder to see, but the touch, the feel, the very coarse rough skin, that will, of course still be very obvious to the touch even to the site. Tracey (31:31): So there's some definitely clear markers, but again, we have to be aware of it. And also knowing that how much of what we carry on and think is normal, we put down to a normal part of aging. I've actually been told myself. I went to a local GP, I needed to just get some bloods done. And I asked for, I think it was just the HBA1C. He was like, what do you want that for; you're thin, you don't need to worry about anything like that. So this is the stuff I think people are up against when they do go to their doctor and ask for these types of things. But there's so much that we can do ourselves to see where we're at in terms of our metabolic health and not put it down to aging. Because so much of what we think is normal, is not normal and it can be reversed. Ben (32:17): Oh yes, yes. I absolutely agree. We should fight the good fight. We should not just look at our worsening metabolic health and just shrug our shoulders. There's too much to live for. There's too much to enjoy. Much of my motivation nowadays is I look at my little kids and first of all, I tremendously miss them not being babies anymore, but I'm already looking forward to them having babies. And they're still all young, but I'm thinking I want to be a really fit grandpa. But even if someone doesn't have that sort of familial motivation, if you will, it's just self-interest to want to just live healthy and then die. We don't want that prolonged morbidity of not being able to get up, not being able to do things we enjoy. And then having a miserable last 20 years of life just filled with pain and disease. No, we should fight it and then be healthy, fit up until the end and then have this, what we call a compressed morbidity. We get sick and die, you know, in months. Tracey (33:19): Yeah. That's what I want too, and I don't think people realize that this is what happens. You know, we're so clever in medicine at prolonging life. It's the quality of life that is just crap and extended and the impact that that has on the family. I think, you know, we have to look at all of that, them having to care for you, all the stuff they've got to do to look after you. You know, I think if we can take all that into consideration, we're going to be a little more motivated to go the hard yards, to do lifestyle change or change what we eat or do whatever it is that we need to do to help reverse this stuff. Even if it's hard, because it is hard, as we know, you. There's so many factors that come into it, but it's worth it. I'm with you, I just want to go. I don't want to have to go through 20 years of slow progressive, horrible stuff. Ben (34:12): No, but I like what you said. I totally agree. I love what you said though, where modern medicine technology basically allows us to live with disease. And that's a sad reality where now more than ever, it's an interesting kind of dichotomy. For example, if we look at heart disease, which I believe I'm sure in Australia is the same in the US, that is the leading cause of death. What's so interesting though, is that the number of people dying from heart disease actually has trended down a little bit, but the number of people with heart disease has spiked dramatically. And so we have more people than ever getting it, which is totally a result of our lifestyle, but because of modern technology, the person can live with it. And I think we almost disincentivize them from, like you said, doing the hard work to turn that around. We are increasingly a global culture that is really just interested in taking a pill, but no pill can cure a chronic disease. It can only treat symptoms. It can never fix it. And that is even more the case with insulin resistance and all the chronic diseases that stem from it. These are not diseases that are caused by the absence of a drug. These are diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle and thus lifestyle is either the culprit or the cure. We've just got to do the hard work to change it. Tracey (35:40): So I definitely want to talk about the lifestyle next, before we get into that, which is to the more, you know, what we can do about it. Can you just share a little bit for my listeners around the link between insulin resistance and something like breast cancer. Ben (35:53): Yeah. Right, right. And you mentioned that earlier. I should have mentioned it then. The risk of breast cancer, I don't believe the insulin resistance is causing the cancer, but there's no doubt that insulin resistance and bad glucose management is exacerbating. And by that, I mean, there was a study done in women where they compared a biopsy of normal breast tissue with a breast tumor. They found in the breast tumor, it had seven times more insulin receptors than the normal breast tissue did. That was part of the mutation that part of it that's in cancer. It is just a series of mutations that allow the cancer cell an advantage over the normal cells. It can grow better and faster. Insulin tells cells to grow. And so by having seven times more insulin receptors in the normal breast tissue, this tumor, we can conclude, seven times more responsive to insulin's growth signals. Ben (36:52): Now that alone is bad, but when we combine it with the high glucose that people have often, or at least constantly eating foods that turn into glucose in the blood, glucose is the fuel for cancer cells in tumors. If you look at human tumors, they use glucose as a fuel. In fact, their glucose use is roughly 200 times greater than normal cells. So these things have an incredible need for energy. And so in the case of insulin resistance, it's a perfect storm. We are giving them a lot of insulin, stimulating that growth to which they're more sensitive, very likely anyway, with more insulin receptors. And then we are fueling that growth by giving them all the glucose they want, because that is the only fuel like a bacteria. It is the only fuel a cancer cell can use. It exclusively relies on glucose as its fuel. So in the case of insulin resistance in breast cancer, we are giving the cancer, the tumor cell, all it needs. Tracey (37:52): Wow, and we've got a long way to go I think, for specialists to give that advice to women. I don't think it's common knowledge. Ben (37:59): Oh no, no, certainly not here. And I'm sure it's the same in Australia. The American cancer society, as much as ever is still promoting a low fat, high carbohydrate diet, rich with complex carbohydrates and whole grains. The reality is all that stuff turns into glucose. You can put a pretty little package on it and say that it's a whole grain. The intestines don't care, it digests it into the same glucose molecules that we get from any other source of starches and sugars , and the cancer cell doesn't care where the glucose came from. Tracey (38:29): So that's a nice way to move into what we can do about it then. So in terms of lifestyle change, food is obviously a pretty big one that we can ultimately at the end of every day or during every day, we choose what we put in our mouth. Now we may be driven by metabolic imbalances and, you know, addictions or sugar urges spiking through us, but there's certainly a lot we can see around that. So let's talk about your take on what we should be eating, I suppose, to give ourselves the best chance of having metabolic health? Ben (39:00): In fact, I, I like what you mentioned a moment ago, sort of alluding to this habit, or even dare I say addictions. And so the advice, I won't even call it advice. My sentiments on the best dietary changes in order to improve insulin resistance are simple, as I'll explain in a moment. But I wouldn't want any of your listeners to think I'm being condescending or smug when I say that, because while the ideas are simple, I fully understand implementing them is not so easy. And that's because we start dealing with addictions and namely, when someone is sitting around on a Saturday night, enjoying a movie at home, no one is sitting there thinking, Oh, I sure could use a plate of scrambled eggs. No, no one says that. What a wonderful world that would be. We are, or at least for me, I am craving something salty and crunchy or sweet and gooey. Ben (39:55): And each of those is going to be essentially built on some sugar and starch of some kind, you know, with some yummy fat thrown in there. And that combination is a wicked delicious one. So I appreciate anyone listening. I know these are not easy, even as long as I've been doing it, the little kind of addictions or the cravings that I just mentioned, I still feel that regularly. And it's just, there is that matter of willpower or even dare I say a support network, you know, letting your loved ones know what you're trying to do and genuinely soliciting their help, but that's outside my territory. Let me just stick with what I think are the scientifically sound principles. So first one is, to me, it is first for a reason because it is the most important and possibly the hardest. And that is control carbohydrates. Ben (40:46): Essentially someone just needs to be smart about their starches and their sugars. With regards to sugars, it's acknowledging the sugar when you're getting it, but people don't know. They might think they're cutting out sugar, but sugar is in virtually every condiment. I think over 70% of all packaged foods, there is sugar in there in some substantial amount. So we need to control the amount of sugar we're eating and, and then just be smarter about the starches we're eating. And basically the simplest idea there is to, focus on whole fruits and vegetables. And there's maybe a little more nuance there depending on how healthy the person is. But basically that's going to be a safe bet; focus on fruits and vegetables, dump everything else. Then the second idea is to prioritize protein, to make sure you eat enough protein that you feel satisfied and that you're meeting your body's genuine needs for protein. Ben (41:44): I don't want it this to sound controversial or smug or offensive; that can't come from plant proteins. Plant proteins are inferior in every way. I hate if that's an offensive idea to some, but it is quantifiably true . Plant proteins, neither have the right mix of amino acids, nor do they have the full availability even. So there are molecules in these plant proteins that directly inhibit our intestines ability to digest the protein. Anyone who's curious about this, look up molecules called tannins or trypsin inhibitors or fighting acids. These are found in all of the plant proteins and it is explicitly inhibiting our ability to break down those proteins from the plants. So it's a double whammy. We don't get the amino acid mix we want in the first place. And even second, we can't even get the ones we think we're getting because we can't digest the plant very well. Ben (42:38): So focus on the animal proteins, and the best way - egg white, and meat. Interestingly, the best proteins, and those that are the best proteins for humans, especially eggs, I should say, or dairy and eggs. Interestingly, those three best sources, dairy, eggs, and meat all come with fat. Fat - and so that's the third pillar. Don't fear fat, eat fat, enjoy fat, focus on natural or ancestral fats, namely fats from animals and fruits. The fruit fats are pretty much coconuts, olives, and avocados. And those are fats (the oils ) that you get just from pressing the flesh of the fruit; nothing to do with the seeds or pits. Nope. It's the flesh of the fruit that our early ancestors for thousands of years, all they needed to do was just step on them. And they would have started getting the oil from these, the flesh of these fruits. Ben (43:33): So they are ancestral. We are well suited to eat them. My point about fats and proteins coming together is relevant because there are studies to show that when you combine fat and protein together, you help the protein work better. So this one study in particular found that muscle growth was the highest when fat and protein were mixed and that was higher than protein alone. So there's something kind of doubly anabolic about that mix and fat helps the guts digest protein. I have had so many people tell me their stomach gets very upset when they eat just pure whey, like a, just a pure whey protein shake. Then I say to them, mix it with fat ,mix one to one fat to protein by mass, not by calorie, but by mass. So if you're getting 20 grams of whey, get 20 grams of fat with that whey. Ben (44:26): And when you eat fat , you have the release of bile acids from the gallbladder and bile facilitates those protein digestive enzymes. So you actually help the guts digest the protein better. So now you're getting more of the amino acids that you want. So those are the three pillars sort of refresh them or reiterate them; control carbohydrates, prioritize protein and don't fear fat. And then the fourth principle is don't be afraid to skip meals, basically intermittent fasting, or time restricted eating can be extremely effective.Then someone just needs to be smart, be deliberate about it. And I say that, because too often I see people who, almost look at intermittent fasting as a glorious form of bingeing and purging. And I don't mean actually like bulimia, but they will wait all day and then eat a big dinner. And they got so hungry. Ben (45:16): They overeat, they indulge in junk food because they let themselves just get too hungry. They didn't plan well. And then they feel such remorse. They feel so full and they sleep so poorly that they wake up the next day saying I'm going to fast all day. And then they do the same thing. They get to dinner. They they've gotten too hungry. They overeat. And I say this because I have seen that tendency in myself, where I end up using intermittent fasting as a crutch to indulge and behave in bad eating habits.But again, it can be extremely effective. I'm an enormous advocate of it, but a person needs to be smart about it. It's not just something I do. I don't believe there's a lot of value in just shrugging your shoulders and say, I'm going to fast and not have a plan for how you end the fast. In fact, I dare say how you end the fast is the most important part of the fast Tracey (46:09): There's so much in there, how fascinating. I would have asked you about the plant versus animal protein anyway, because I mean, I'm a huge advocate of animal proteins. I've looked into it so much. I've had so many amazing people on this show. You just peel it back. We're not talking about ideology here. We're talking about physiology and what our body is optimum on. And when we understand it from that perspective, it's all so much easier. Of course, it's all those other layers as we know around it. But at least for us to make decisions around what to fuel our body, it's much easier to do when we understand what is going to be optimum and what we're going to get the most out of when we do eat. Ben (46:53): Yes and true. In fact, I look at plant protein as a bit of a racket, and I say this with some informed experience. When a couple of my older brothers and I wanted to make a low carb meal replacement shake, we talked about (my brothers not being scientists), said we should look at P protein. That's because it's, it's just such a commonly used protein. And I would want a listener to know, they should be very cynical when they look at the branding on a meal replacement shake or a protein shake because P protein or any of the plant proteins are a fraction of the cost of animal proteins. They are so cheap, but you can see the incentive from a manufacturer or the company. They can, one, buy a protein that is very, very cheap, and then two, they can kind of virtue signal. Ben (47:43): They can brag about how they have plant proteins. These are not animal proteins. These are plant based proteins. Nowadays, people are so seduced by that idea, where, kind of pop culture is just waging war on our omnivorous nature as humans, our absolute undeniable evolutionary reliance on animal products. Now it's like, we're ashamed of that. We're doing everything we can to walk away from our absolute natural biology. And so they want to brag about how it's, plant-based. That's nothing to brag about. It is not healthy for the individual. It is not healthy for the planet, (that's a bit beside the point), but it also just creates a wonderful profit motive or incentive for the company. They can make a lot more money off of you , by selling junk. Tracey (48:34): Yes. People like Diana Rogers from Sustainable Dish, that fantastic book she released. I mean, there's so many great people doing great things to show sustainable farming is actually going to help the planet. So again, what we're up against is dogma and misinformation. And, you know, I think we have to just be cynical; exactly what you said. We've got to come across everything with a cynical perspective. But it can be very, very hard, can't it for the lay person to know what to believe and to know what's true. People are saying black and white. No, there'll be someone that will say plant, but no you're wrong. Plant based is optimal. Ben (49:11): I know. And I absolutely appreciate that. I have nothing but genuine compassion for people that are struggling with this. And indeed, even for people that they may know, the fact that humans are omnivores and yet they still have a conflict in them, this ethical dilemma of eating an animal. There's something sad about that, but it doesn't change the reality of our world, and this is cliche to say, but something must die for something to live. Even the plant that person is eating, that plant grew from the nutrients that came from dead things. And that dead thing once lived because of the nutrients that came from a plant. It is an undeniable reality of our world. And so for those of us that embrace this omnivorous nature of humans, of our species, I do think at the risk of sounding silly religious or philosophical; I do think there's something to be said for appreciating the life that is lost for ours to go on. Ben (50:13): I think there's something beautiful in that reality of acknowledging this was a death and it was necessary because I need to live. My family needs to live. We shouldn't be ashamed of that. We also, I think should acknowledge it. I do think there's something beautiful, acknowledging that I. I want my children to know that an animal dies. When we buy our meat from a local, (it's a professor actually in a different department here in my campus at my university, we buy all of our beef from him), I want them to know that this was a real animal and it died for us and that's okay. It's okay that that happened. But we can also feel a little sad, but grateful. Tracey (50:56): I absolutely love that. I think, that's fantastic. And it just puts another perspective on it. I think it's very easy to lose sight of that evolutionary omnivorous nature that we've come from, is to say, that we never have to hunt for food, we never have to be in a position where we're starving now. We have that luxury, most of us in the Western world. Of course not all the world has that luxury, but in the Western world, we can just go to the supermarket. There's no understanding of the processes behind that anymore. And I think that is important, that gratitude, and to understand where it's coming from in all this conversation. There's not enough of that around. So thank you for saying that. Ben (51:36): Yeah. Yeah. Sure, sure. That's it's the dad in me. I have to say it's part of my dad routine. Tracey (51:41): How many children have you got? Ben (51:43): I have three, three little babies, a13, 10, and seven. It's everything. I would just say as much as we're spending all our time right now, talking on science and that's appropriate. It's why I'm interesting. All of this, this career, it all serves one end, which is to provide for my wife and my children. So I am number one, husband, father far, far, number two is scientist professor. Tracey (52:06): Oh, I love it. Well, husband, father, I probably should let you get back to your family. Thank you so much for sharing. It's been such a pleasure. I have loved every second. I could ask you a million other questions, but I will let you go. And of course, please everybody buy Dr. Ben's book, because there is so much in there that can really empower you to make the choices that you need to make for your health. There is just is. Please buy it and thank you for coming on. Ben (52:38): Oh my pleasure. Thanks again for the invitation. I had a really, really great time.

James Connolly, producer of two documentaries, Sacred Cow and Death in the Garden, comes on the show to discuss the problems with our food system, how they're only getting worse, and what we can do to fix things. James first revolutionized the food system in some inner-city schools in New York and eventually went on to produce documentaries that highlight the true reality of the situation. In this episode, you'll learn about how our food system evolved, the issues it faced back then and today, what's really driving these issues today, and what it's going to take to fix this. James also tackles the environmental issues with our food system, why he was a vegan for nine months and what happened as a result, and what's going to happen if we don't properly address these issues. James also shares more about the research behind vegan documentaries and how his research is different and he wraps the episode up sharing the incredible story of Steven Dozinger, a social justice activist that's been wrongfully incarcerated. As mentioned above, James Connolly is the producer of the documentaries Sacred Cow and Death in the Garden. He's also the co-producer of The Sustainable Dish podcast. In addition, James is an artist, chef, and non-profit co-founder of The Bubble Foundation, which focuses on issues of wellness and food insecurity in inner-city public schools. Tune in now to learn more and enjoy!

Atheopagan Zoom Events: https://atheopaganism.wordpress.com/2021/05/04/please-join-us-for-zoom-events/ Food psych podcast mentioned, by Christy Harrison: christyharrison.com   A few food and sustainability podcast resources: Sustainable Dish: https://sustainabledish.com/podcasts/ Regenerative Agriculture Podcast: http://regenerativeagriculturepodcast.com   Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at thewonderpodcastQs@gmail.com   S2E17 TRANSCRIPT: ----more---- Food Yucca: Welcome back to the Wonder Science-Based Paganism. I'm one of your hosts Yucca. Mark: And I'm the other one, Mark. Yucca: And this week we are talking about food. And there's a lot of different directions to go with this topic, but it was actually inspired by the topic from this mornings atheopagan zoom mixer. So do you want to touch on that Mark? Mark: Sure be happy to the atheopagan Facebook community holds a zoom in-person mixer every Saturday morning at 10:15 Pacific time. And it's It's something that you, as a theist pagan are welcome to check out. If you go to atheopagan ism.org, there is a post up right now that invites you to various zoom mix, various zoom activities that the community is doing. And so the links are there. Yucca: I'll put a link to that post in the show notes Mark: perfect. Yucca: so that everyone can click on that. Yeah. Mark: We We didn't really have a pre-set discussion topic for today's mixer, but we stumbled into this conversation about our personal relationships with food and with eating and all of the sort of issues around that. And the reason why that is pertinent from a pagan standpoint is that paganism. To a large degree is about liberation from the over culture. It's about getting those kind of disempowering authoritarian anti pleasure. Anti-sexual anti-women anti gay, anti black. Frameworks off of us to as great a degree as we possibly can and being liberated as people as a result. And so this conversation. I mean, it was just really lovely and everybody had something to contribute to it. And we don't really talk about our relationship with food. Very much. We get bombarded with messages, but we really don't talk about it much. And so I thought that for Yucca and me to have a conversation today about that would make an interesting post an interesting podcast for you folks to listen to. Yucca: Yeah. And so I wasn't present for this conversation this morning. But I think in addition to what you've just said, Mark, about, about paganism often being about this liberation, there's also a component of it being about connection. Connection with our world with the rest of nature. And food is one of those ways that we are connected. This is the primary way in which we relate to the rest of the biosphere food webs that's and no matter what choices we're making, we're tied in that way. And so there's a lot of. Really interesting directions to explore with that. Mark: Yes, I think so too. And we, I mean, we really only scratched the surface too, to some degree, much of what we were talking about in the mixer this morning had to do with people's individual feelings around eating. And we touched some on the dreaded D word dieting and the. You know, how hungry people feel. At various times, some people don't, aren't very able to detect when they're hungry. I'm one of those, and I'll talk about that more later. Other people feel hungry all the time and have a hard time differentiating when it's that their body really needs the food. And when it's that it doesn't. So there. Are some there are just some very interesting ways that all of this can go. And we're going to explore some of that today. Yucca: This topic could be its own podcast. It could be its own weekly podcast of paganism and food, but we're going to try and handle it a little bit today and jump into that. Mark: There is actually a podcast that I'm going to mention later that was brought up by someone in the zoom. I'm opening the chat now and I'll find it and we'll post it in the in the in the notes. but it's about. it's by a woman named Christie Harrison. And it's just a very sensible, healthy common sense, understanding about food as something that your body needs and people have different body types and they shouldn't all be trying to tailor their eating in order to achieve that body type. Just a very healthy perspective on on eating and food. Okay. Yucca: Great. Yeah. So we'll include that as well. So, Structurally let's start with the big and how to narrow down. Maybe we let's talk a little bit about food's role for humans, its role in society, its role in community. Mark: Well, where would you like to start with that? I mean, I tend to think in terms of social messaging and culture, I mean, there are a lot of, you know, just sheerly logistical things to talk about in terms of food, with the industrialized agriculture that we live with maintaining us and our population. And there are all kinds of problems with that things to talk about, but Yucca: And both of us actually professionally have some connection to this. Right. My background as an agro ecologist. So I work in primarily restoration ecology now, but that intrense was into agroecology and our relationship as humans with the rest of our ecosystem. And how do we construct and how do we work with the natural processes instead of. The trying to fight against them, which ultimately won't work out for us. Doesn't work out for us. And then you work in a food bank. Is that correct? Mark: I do a food bank now, but I worked for seven years for a wetlands Conservancy that also was working with land owners and working to develop sustainable agricultural practices. So, and performing restoration projects in the wetlands adjacent to these agricultural operations. So, I have a background in that as well. The. There's just so much to be said about the ways that our agricultural system needs to be reformed. And that could be a podcast of its own. Honestly, it could. And I'm sure there are some out there that are exactly about that, Yucca: There's some great ones. Yeah. Drop some links to those too. This will be a link heavy show notes. Mark: lots of different directions you can go with the subject of relationship to food. But what I tend to think about societaly in relation to, you know, this kind of big picture understanding of our relationship as individuals with food as part of a society. Yeah. Is the kind of poisonous pornographic kind of media bombardment that we get constantly. Of advertising, mostly of food that appeals to people when they're already hungry or malnourished. So it's heavy on fats, heavy on sugars highly processed and fast, right? That you can continue your maniacal capitalistic work load without taking too much time to actually enjoy.  Yucca: And these are all what we call hyper palatable foods that have been literally engineered to be the most attractive to us possible to what is coded into us evolutionarily, whether it's good for us or not. It's what it's getting our bodies to really want it. And it becomes very addictive on many levels there. Mark: Right. Many snack foods, for example, are engineered such that you cannot be satisfied in eating them. It doesn't matter how much of them you eat. You could stuff yourself with Doritos and you. They'll want more Doritos because their flavor has been engineered in such a manner that the hit of dopamine that you get from the taste of that particular combination is in itself addictive in the same way that gambling is addictive and other sorts of, you know, pleasure. Creating sensations are addictive. So it's really a problem. I mean, capitalism has taken on food in the way that it's taken on everything else. And it's decided that the best way to create a market is to create addicts. And that's not the healthiest way for us to eat. And addictive behavior is a pretty good model for understanding the way a lot of us relate to our food. Yucca: And it's not something that we can walk away from. Are certain addictions that you can cold turkey. Walk away from the cold turkey, walking away from food. Isn't going to, isn't going to last for very long. However it ends. Mark: try it. Yucca: Yeah. Well, there's it. And you end up with bulemia and And well, the word is escaping me. It begins with an  Mark: a  Yucca: a anorexia, Yeah. Mark: And binge eating and then starvation cycles. all of that is just so, so hard on the body and it can have this tremendous psychological impact in terms of shame and And guilt that leads to secrecy and terrible and distorted body images associated. There are just so many different ways that this addiction provoking non-health encouraging a propaganda machine really hurts us in terms of our relationship with our bodies and with food. Yucca: Yeah. And so that's bringing in another whole realm to that is the body image. And that has other elements as well in terms of our attitudes towards, Oh, we'll just get up and do some exercise or something like that. And often those messages are really not grounded in. In reality, they're often manipulated for advertising purposes or well-intended individuals who have it lucky in some way, projecting a judging upon others and placing value of the person based upon. Appearance and body type and confusing things where it's things are a symptom of a deeper cause when we start to talk about things like obesity that. Placing blame on the persons as they have some moral failure because they have obesity or because they have this or that and ignoring the actual causes and all of this, these yucky destructive messages that just get sent and taught sometimes spoken out loud and often. It's below the surface and just being communicated and taught to us and we're enforcing it ourselves, even if we don't agree with it throughout our whole society. For sure. The. The ubiquity of this, the universality of it, and the perniciousness of it is something that none of us can walk away from because. Even when we try to think about how do we solve this stuff? The first thing that comes to mind is some product that somebody has tried to sell us, whether it's eat yogurt and you two will be, you know, a slim blonde yoga mom, like, like the ones that are always selling you yogurt Or  become a vegan or become a carnivore or whatever. Yeah. Mark: Yes. You know, some. Very over-simplified by my program, by my podcast, you know, all that kind of junk. And it's just very hard to get away from. It is there are tens of thousands of opinions of varying levels of credibility about what constitutes a healthy diet. The truth is that one size does not fit all. What we really need to be able to do is to listen to our own bodies. And we are not taught to do that. And in the case of some people like me, for example, I can't do it because I'm on medications that make it impossible for me to tell whether I'm hungry or not, until I am ravenous. And then I finally twigged to the fact, Oh yeah, I haven't eaten for 12 hours. Yucca: Yeah. And th and there's many other situations where there are. Or hormonal imbalances where there's different forms of metabolic syndrome going on that get in the way of those natural signaling processes. That, that have been broken since childhood or even from when we were in the womb, because a lot of this we're discovering has much of the functioning of our bodies in relation to food and our metabolism is inherited epigenetically. So the, what was the, what was happening with our mothers bodies and even with our grandmother's bodies, when they were pregnant, has a huge impact. So. The idea of listening to our bodies is I think really key, but that's another one of those messages that gets sent out there as it's just like the solution. Oh, you should just listen to your body. Well, it's just, it's not as simple as that for many people that listening to your body is part of the process, but sometimes like you were saying, the body's not sending the signals or we haven't learned to speak the same language to be. To speak in a metaphor there. Mark: Sure be clear. I mean, we're speaking in a very dyadic kind of way right now about the body and the mind and the body and the mind are the same thing. They're all an integrated system. And if we have very strong opinions or fears or phobias or complexes or beliefs about eating and food and what we should be doing, that's going to color the signal. Those that we get from our body about what we ought to be doing. Think about it for a minute. Think about humans as they evolved on the African Savannah, did they eat three meals a day? Probably not, they probably just kind of browse throughout the day as they found food sources and gathered them in some cases when they wanted to treat them with fire.  Yucca: We probably had large meals. After a big key, a big kill that went on for a long time. We had a lot of it. And then we had to wait till we got that next kill or that next animal that we were built to scavenge and steal from the more competent predators than us. Mark: Sure. And in the meantime, we chewed grains and ate fruits and, you know, whatever else it was and tubers and whatever else we could find that were nutritious to us. So that's kind of what we were built for. And. The separation of productivity from the home into a workplace, which was one of the big innovations of industrial capitalism, forced meals to be compressed in time because we had to do work, right. We had to do work to get money to survive. So now we have this kind of codified three meals during the day thing. And for a lot of people, that's not the healthy way to eat. They need to eat a snack in the middle of the morning, in the middle of the afternoon, they just, they need to keep some calories going all the time. Yucca: Or actually the other direction as well. Some people find it very helpful to have more of a compressed eating window. So getting into the realm of, and of course this is. Neither of us are medical doctors. We can't be giving medical advice. But some people have found intermediate fasting to be very beneficial. That's something that has worked really well for me personally, is actually cutting back the number of snacks and the the kind of fast sugars out of my diet and finding that makes a tremendous amount of. Difference in terms of feeling level, blood, sugar wise brain fog, all of those things, but some people, depending on it also depends on your life stage. You know, are you pregnant at the time? Are you doing all kinds of things? And you know, what are the, what are you doing? Activity-wise what is your general macro balance? You know, it's not, it may not. B does the three meals or six meals or there's so many different directions to go with that. Mark: Sure. Yeah. And once again, this goes to, you know, what exactly is the goal, right? to my mind, the goal is to be healthy. And to understand health, not in terms of a body type ideal in the conversation this morning, there was, you know, around dismissal of BMI as a legitimate measurement. There are people that are stocky. There are people who are skinny. There are people, most of them over 40 who have bellies. I'm one of them. That is a natural thing that happens when your metabolism slows down and you start to accumulate calories. Cause you're not quite as fleet of foot as you used to be. Yucca: Or if you just look at athletes that are going to have incredibly high BMI's, right. Because they've some of them and there's different types of athletes, but they may be, they may look really wirey and mean, but it's all muscle. Mark: right. Right. Exactly. So they weigh a ton. Yucca: Oh, yeah, that was the case for me before I had my kids, I was doing Olympic lifting. Which is by the way not, it was not in the Olympics, Olympic lifting as a type of lifting. And I was, I'm 5'5", and I was about 160 pounds. And you wouldn't have looked at, you wouldn't have seen that with me. If you looked at me, I would not look that way. I was sitting in eights. Right. But my BMI was crazy because right. And that's, Mark: It's just not a measurement. That makes much sense. It tries to apply a single standard to people who are all over the map, genetically and in terms of their frame size and their metabolism and their genetic background. So, and there are actually some indications that there are some racial components to this as well. BMI measurements tend not to be as favorable for black people, for example And you know, this idea of making the generic person, a white person, probably a white male. You know, we see this Yucca: a whole story with temperature, with room temperature for that, by the way. Mark: Oh, is there. Yucca: Yes that is based on the ideal room. Temperature is based on the comfort level of white middle-aged men and it doesn't work for most other people. It works for that. Group, but other people's like, now it doesn't work. Mark: Yeah. Yucca: anyways, I. Mark: We see this in science and in standard setting quite a bit. I mean, the good news is that at least there is some people talking about it now, so that hopefully we can evolve those behaviors, but. My, my fundamental point at bringing it up is to free yourself from expectations around the BMI. The BMI is not a valid measurement in any sense. And even if your doctor is trying to sell it to you you know, push back, tell him, look, I have broad shoulders and big hips. I'm not going to fit your, you know, your entered for skinny people. Yeah. Yucca: I mean with, so like all of this, that there's context though, right? If Because we're certainly not saying ignore the health advice of the professionals that you're working with or what, you know, if you have the sense that honestly I'm carrying extra weight, it's not helping me. Like, we're not saying just ignore that. Right. We're saying but Hey, step back and take a look at the. The expectations, which are create the assumptions, which are creating the societal expectations around that. Is that legitimate? Is it actually valid to say that you're, you should be looking like whatever the supermodel is and by the way, that changes over the decades in terms of what the ideal body type is anyways. So, so again, we're not saying don't. Work on your health. Don't take these things, these biometrics in don't just completely ignore them but understand that they have a whole context. Mark: Yes. And that it's a cultural context. It's not a scientific context. I mean, you talk about ideal body types. I mean, who were the big supermodels in the 1960s? They were people like Twiggy who, I mean, they call her Twiggy for a reason. I mean, he's built like a twig. Yucca: Yeah. And if we do any, even the surface level research on her, we'll find out that there were, there was a lot of body image and health challenges that she was having. Mark: and, you know, skip forward five decades and look at Kim Kardashians, The absolute diametric opposite in, in body shape in every way. So these ideas of these ideals. Are not things that we can measure ourselves by. They're not there. They're arbitrary standards. They evolve over time. There's no such thing as an inherent beauty standard and trying to shoehorn ourselves into those can be really harmful. It can hurt yourself esteem. It can hurt your social relationships and it can hurt your health. Yucca: Yeah. And for everyone too, we just gave some examples of women. We've been talking about a lot about women when it comes to the societal expectations, but it's everybody right. It we, haven't gotten to a point where we're talking about that very much with with men and boys and masculine presenting individuals but it's there as well. And it's. And it's really toxic as well in terms of the messaging that we're sending everybody about that. Mark: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean advertising for food stuffs for men, everybody is ripped with, you know, with six packs Yucca: Yeah. And those photos they're wearing makeup, you can look up how to do, to contour your muscles, to make it look like you've got that. And then those pictures are usually touched up anyways, afterwards. I mean, it'd be unheard of for those pictures to not be touched up. Mark: Yeah, because otherwise they would be unhuman monsters. Yucca: And even on your Instagram and Tik TOK videos and all of that, those people are makeup and doctoring themselves up before they get on and make their video. Like, that's just the, it might feel more candid and real, but now this is their business. That's what they're doing to make money. And that's what a lot of this is the advertising around it. It's the making money, but then it becomes part of our beliefs and our worldview. And then we're pushing it on everyone from every direction and on ourselves. Right. Mark: So let's step back for a second and talk about the relationship with food in the household. Within, you know, family groups or, you know, groups of people who live together because that can be a source of a lot of stress for people Yucca: tremendous amount. Yeah. And a lot of directions when people have different needs, but people also have very different beliefs. When we get into the realm of diet, that's a place where some of the beliefs around diets are. I mean, it becomes religious. Just like, there can be some really extreme beliefs and there's a tremendous amount of misinformation that gets spread and really poorly done science that gets blasted by the media. So you can have this disagreement and uncomfortable relationships between people in the house and then people with very different needs as well, because although we're the same species within that. Humans can be very different. Even within very closely, genetically related humans. We can have different needs. Mark: sure. Because you're among other things, your microbiome can be very different. Yucca: Yes. Mark: even living in the same household, even being all members of the same family, you know, genetically related to one another. If your microbiome in your gut has developed differently with different organisms that are processing your food, then you're going to need different food. Yucca: Yeah, and that's a really fun new frontier in science right now is the microbiome is just amazing. A delightful, so that deserves its own topic and its own podcast. So, so there's that social interaction between the individuals there's also in terms of the talking about the level of. The kind of need for liberation. There's a lot of pressure with, especially on young parents on, on, you know, mothers, fathers, other kinds of parents, but it's, but at least from where I see it a lot with the mothers about this virtue signaling and the Like this pressure to get it all right. And as long as you do it, right then everything's going to be perfect. And your family, if you all eat the perfect diet and you all eat together every time and you eat this food and that food and the, then everything's going to be great. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't strive to be really healthy, right. And to be, have a really. Nutrient rich environmentally responsible diet, but the expectations there that get that we put on ourselves I think it can be really counterproductive that they can, we can really end up hurting ourselves more in that strive for protection for perfection. Then the, this, the strive for balance. Mark: Yeah. I mean, I think that's a general rule. it's not just a rule in to our relationship with food and you know, how we feel that we're supposed to be parenting the whole idea of absolute standards that are supposed to solve all problems and which, if you deviate from them, there's something, you know, some level of failure that is associated that's just for one thing, it's not pagan, it's very authoritarian. It's very sort of religious and kind of. It's a moral code about moral success and moral failure. And that's really not. What we're about. What we're about is living lives that are healthy and virtuous and empowered. And by virtuous, I mean adhering to virtues, things like integrity and kindness, right? Not obedience to an arbitrary set of rules and to the degree that we are imprisoned by arbitrary sets of rules. We're not liberated. So it's important for us to be asking these questions, you know, when my in-laws lean on me about, you know, some way that we eat in my household am I going to succumb to that? Or am I going to push back and say, this is what's working for us? And that's the important thing Yucca: Yes. So this is an area where I think that actually there's the potential for. A lot of empowerment and joy, and that's certainly how and in our household, there is a lot of joy around the food. And it's a place where we really find a lot of our connection with the rest of the biosphere. It's a place where that's really As we were talking about at the beginning, that we all are connected to everyone else through the food web. And this is, that's a place of celebration for us. Mark: Okay. Yeah, I can really see that. And I feel that myself, I mean, I'm grateful when I eat and and I don't feel guilty about it, even if what I'm eating is kind of crappy because sometimes I eat stuff that's crappy. I mean, I think pretty much everybody does once in a while. I don't feel guilty about that because I've seen what happens when chimpanzees find a beehive. You know, they go nuts. They eat every last possible molecule of sugar that can be had out of that experience. And that's fine for them because they're not going to find another beehive for another six months. It's not hurting them to go on a sugar binge that one time, because it's a moderated presence in their overall diet. Yucca: But the challenge for us is that we are now in an environment that is different than our evolutionary context. And. This the well wonderful framework for understanding this is ancestral health. That's something that I've found very empowering and might be something that people would be interested in looking into, but as looking at, okay, let's look at humans, the animal, and let's try and understand us in terms of. How did we evolve and understanding that evolution does not stop evolution has continued. There are changes that have happened in only the last few generations. There are changes that have happened in only the last few hundred generations that have significant differences. But there is a really strong mismatch between the ways that we live today. It's like we live in captivity in so many ways in terms of our Light cycles. We've talked about this a lot before on the podcast, in terms of the light, but also in terms of the food and the availability of the food that we have, that now, at least for those of us in the industrial world, that we basically have access to anything that we want any time, but our bodies are programmed to want specific, you know, we really want to eat all of those berries. Because those berries are only available for a short period of time and that's great. We get that food, but then we would have these long periods where we wouldn't have access to that. So it's okay that we would binge on the berries, just like you were saying with the chimps and the honey. And then also when we get into the exercise component, we evolved within a context in which we had to move around. We were very active. And, but so the desire to lay down underneath that tree or in today's context, hang out on the couch or in front of the screen, that makes sense contextually. But today we're in a very different environment. So, so there has to be some, we need to make some systemic changes or conscious choices around trying to help ourselves be more balanced with what we know. What we know the little that we know, cause there's so much more to learn about ourselves our past, but to match that natural cycle with our, with what we're doing in our industrial world. Mark: Right because our impulses are often wrong. Our impulses are often too, you know, piling tons of sugar and fat and salt because it made total sense in the wild. It made total sense for us to pile those in because they were rare and they were valuable and it was really good to get them. But now we have sugar and salt and fat surrounding us 24 hours a day and available with a phone call. So it. It's different. And the same as you say is true with exercise where our impulse to be slothful and conserve calories totally makes sense for an organism.  Yucca: Our ancestors alive. That's why we're here today. Mark: Sure. Why would you burn calories? Extreme for random reasons, like running on a treadmill? When. Then you just have to go out and find more calories, but in a context where all the calories are there all the time, then it totally makes sense to need to get some exercise as well. So, so this brings us down to the individual, to the personal and station this morning, I found very moving because it really was, didn't take very long before everybody so sort of started. You know, talking about their own personal situation with food and the feelings, you know, these are not mild feelings. These are intense feelings around relationship to hunger relationship to diet. And then it goes directly to the whole question of body image again, because. In our culture, we have come to conflate eating with how you appear and how you appear with how much you're loved with your value, with how much you loved. And for one thing, that's, it's just a toxic formula. It's a completely poisonous formula because people should be valued, not for what they look like, but for their inherent worth. But I think that it's. A really useful thing for us to be looking individually at what do I think about food is my need for food annoying. Do I find myself irritated by my constant need to eat? I know I feel that sometimes it's like, Oh God, the food thing again, it's just relentless. It never ends. Yucca: If I could just do the bar right. And for as much as I think about food and all of that, I would just be happy if I could just have like my little food bar and all I had to do was eat at once a day and then I was done  Mark: Uh huh. Yeah, because, cause we're busy, we're over busy in, you know, in industrialized cultures. There's a tremendous pressure on us to produce and food, especially healthy food is time consuming. And energy consuming. I mean, if you actually want to prepare something that's healthy from fresh ingredients, then it's going to take you awhile and that's time and energy being taken away from other stuff. And it's yes. And it's particularly hard when you're already hungry. But if you're like me and you can't really tell when you're hungry until you're starving, then the urgency of getting some food right now becomes really high. And then it's even harder to make healthy choices. Yucca: Yeah. And then there are our folks for which food has all of these emotional connections in terms of it's the, you know, they have, that's the way that their parent expressed. Their affection and love is that they would make the pancakes or go out for ice cream or or the food is become a way of an emotional coping mechanism. Right? You're feeling a little sad. You're feeling a little down, you're feeling anxious and there's that food. And especially when it's the hyper palatable food then it creates this dependency. We also have. Mark: when we were talking about this before we started to record that that when you eat food, that is really pleasurable, that really pushes your. Sugar fat, salt buttons. You get a spike of dopamine, the pleasure, neuro receptor, a neurotransmitter. And that is exactly the same thing that happens when a gambler pulls the handle on a slot machine. It is that momentary The you take the action and then you get the spike of dopamine and then you want another spike of dopamine and another spike of dopamine. And it becomes very hard to differentiate between I'm hungry and I'm conducting this addictive behavior because we're built to be addicted to food. That's a natural thing, right? I mean, our bodies were designed. To have an affinity for going after calories because otherwise we'd be dead. Yucca: presumably there, there were some of relatives of our ancestors that were programmed differently and now they're not here. Right. So, yeah. Now. Food though, you know, we've been talking about a lot of the challenges around food, but there's also so much opportunity for the deep connection with our household, with ourselves, with the, if you're the garden or the little pots of herbs that you have in your tiny little window or whatever it is for forming these really strong powerful. Connections and really strong senses and experiences. So there's a lot of potential for working with food. Very intentionally in ritual. We've touched on it a few times before about certain smells or tastes and having that move you into a certain state. There's so much potential there. Mark: for sure. Yeah, because this is a, it's a root level human function, right. It's not option. Yes Yucca: not even just human but animal, but yeah. Mark: Yes. The it's not optional. It's not however much we might wish it was going to be optional. It's not right. And so it becomes something that we need to be embraced that we need to embrace as a part of our animal selves. One of the things about we pagans is that we do understand that we're animals. We're not telling ourselves that we're some other thing that you know, was created in a separate category with a different moral structure than the rest of life on earth. Yucca: Where we used to be animals, but we're not anymore because we somehow ascended to beyond them or higher than them or something like that. Mark: We're no longer animals because we invented steel and guns. Yeah that, that's not really a pagan understanding of what we are as beings. Now, what I want to say to our listeners is there is no whatever your body is like. It's not wrong. There is no moral failure in. Having a body, a particular way. Your body is fine. No matter what it is now, you may have health considerations that lead you to want to make changes. That's fine. That's great. You can work with your medical provider and you know, anybody else to help you to do that, but there is no moral failure in the way you are right now. You're fine. And that's. That's a hard piece of work for a lot of folks, a lot of folks really need to work around that message for a long time, do ritual around it, meditate on it, work on it in therapy, because when you free yourself of that expectation about what your body is supposed to be like, and I'm not saying that I've done this entirely, but I feel like I'm enough free of it that I can kind of see what it would look like. Then your relationship to food transforms because it's not about serving your moral failure or serving your moral success. It's about doing what's best for you. As a living, being a living organism, the stakes are a lot lower because it's not about your self-esteem, it's not about your value.  Yucca: It comes easier to think clearly around it when it no longer is about your value as it is it as an entity. Yeah. Mark: yes. Your value as a person. So I mean, I wanted to spell that out really super clearly, because it's so important. It's just, it's a really big deal kind of thing. You know, in the same way that when we talk about sexuality, I want to tell people, you know, whatever it is you're into. There is no such thing as a fought crime. You, you are allowed to desire, whatever you want to desire. Even if what you want to desire is illegal. You're allowed to desire it. In some cases, you're not allowed to do it. And those are two different things, but it doesn't make you a bad person to like a particular thing. Doesn't make you a bad person to have a particular kind of body. Yucca: Or to eat a particular thing or to not eat a particular thing or to eat the thing that you think that you don't want to eat for whatever reasons when you slip up a little bit. Right. That might be, yes. That might be Contrary to your goals, your health goals overall, or your environmental goals or whatever it is, but it doesn't make you bad or you a failure or you, whatever. Mark: Right. And making changes in dietary choices for health reasons. It's not like it's not like, virginity where it's like you blow it once and it's gone forever, which I don't even Yucca: I, yeah. I think that's a weird concept anyway, is Mark: I do. I do too, Yucca: very heteronormative and yeah. Mark: Absolutely. It's more like sobriety. You fall off the wagon, you get back on the wagon, it's it. You know, and if you're conforming to whatever those guidelines are, the you're trying to meet 80% of the time. You're doing great. You know, it's not an all or nothing proposition and you don't need to construct every time you don't conform to whatever regime you're trying to. To implement as a failure, it's not a failure, it's just a choice he made. And now he can make a different choice, Yucca: Yeah, it comes back to that idea of how useful is guilt, right? It's if you're beating yourself up over and over, you know, what is it achieving? What guilt is there to do now? It's just making you feel bad. Mark: Yeah. Yeah. And we're against feeling bad. That's that is a characteristic of our religion that we need to say over and over again, this life is the life that we get and we want people to be happy. That doesn't mean you're going to be happy all the time. I had a loss this week, my cat died and I feel really sad about that. But We want people to be able to live lives of contentment and occasional joy and effectiveness and autonomy and agency in the world and getting into right relationship with food is one of the ways that we do that for ourselves at a really deep level. Yucca: Well, this was fantastic, Mark. Lot of food for thought so to say, Mark: I'm wearing my food for thought. T-shirt that's the name of my food bank. Yucca: Oh really? Oh, that's great. Mark: Yeah. The, yeah, this has been a really great conversation and I really appreciate having it with you. we will put various resources in the notes and welcome your feedback. this is You know, these kinds of topics are really pretty juicy and chewy for us. And we're, we welcome more of them to talk about. So, you can reach us at thewonderpodcastqueues@tgmail.com. So the wonder podcast, all one word, and then Q s@gmail.com. And we look forward to hearing from Yucca: All right. Thanks Mark.  Mark: Thanks, Yucca.

On this episode of the Sustainable Dish podcast, my co-host, James Connolly, interviews Sadie Radinsky. Sadie Radinsky is the 19-year-old writer and recipe creator behind WholeGirl.com. Sadie starting blogging in 2014, when she was 12, her goal was to educate and empower her fellow teen girls and create a positive community around food. We discussed her new book, Whole Girl: Live Vibrantly, Love Your Entire Self, and Make Friends with Food. Other topics discussed were female empowerment, homeschooling, the pressures on teenagers to go vegan, and our mutual love of Neil Gaiman.  Be sure to learn more about Sadie on her website, Facebook, and Instagram. This episode brought to you by DrinkLMNT who has an exclusive deal for my listeners. Visit this page to learn how you can get a sampler pack for only $5.

On this episode of the Sustainable Dish podcast, I talk to Andrew Smith about his book, A Critique of the Moral Defense of Vegetarianism.   We discuss the sentience of plants, the morality of all diets, the impossibility of an animal-free diet, and more.   Andrew brings a unique perspective to the ethical case for better meat and is featured in both my film and book, Sacred Cow.   To learn more about Andrew and his work, visit his website here.   This episode brought to you by DrinkLMNT who has an exclusive deal for my listeners. Visit this page to learn how you can get a sampler pack for only $5.

This week on “Death in The Garden,” Jake and Maren had a deep conversation with James Connolly, producer of the documentary Sacred Cow (Diana Rodgers and Robb Wolf, 2020) and guest host of the podcast “Sustainable Dish” also by Diana Rodgers. We talk about the mythos of civilization, critiques of the commodifying education system, the designed hierarchy of society, the religion of science, our propensity to seek out gurus & unintegrated spirituality, and so many other nuances of the world’s problems. You’ll just have to listen to catch it all— we go deep! We also shit-talk Elon Musk. This show will be co-released on the “Sustainable Dish” podcast, so go check them out, too! You can find James on Instagram: @primatekitchen @accidentalhost Please leave us a rating, review, and subscribe to the show if you are enjoying what we’re doing! Check out our website deathinthegarden.org and our Instagram @deathinthegarden for more. Editing: Jake Marquez Music: Daniel Osterstock

In today's episode of The Sustainable Dish, I chat with Ede Fox, aka The Black Carnivore.   We talk about how she reclaimed her health with a carnivore or meat-based diet and her creation of an inclusive space for black people and people of color to learn about the carnivore diet, health, and nutrition. We dive into the underlying injustices of a meat-free or less meat diet, how food justice includes access to nutrient-dense foods like meat, and what we can do to help encourage more people to advocate for a meat-inclusive diet.   If you're curious about the carnivore diet and how it can be an effective therapy, how diet recommendations for a particular region of people often don't acknowledge systemic injustice of those regions, or how you can get explore the carnivore diet and get involved with the Black Carnivore community, give this episode a listen.   Find Ede online on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and The Black Carnivore Podcast, and if you're new to carnivore, check out her coaching services here.   This episode was generously sponsored by my favorite electrolyte drink mix, LMNT. I personally drink 2 per day and recommend to my clients, athletes, or anyone following a low-carb diet or undergoing a stressful period to pay attention to their electrolytes. LMNT is the perfect combination of sodium, potassium, and magnesium. Visit this website for a free sample pack, just pay shipping!

#76: Grass-fed. Grass-finished. Pasture-raised...hormone-free...antibiotic-free, humanely processed. When it comes to meat, what does it all mean? Self-proclaimed “rogue dietitian” Diana Rodgers joins me for an interview to talk about what it means to select sustainable meat.   For families who do eat animal products, these foods represent important nutrient, taste and texture opportunities for your baby. But Diana takes meat considerations a few steps further: looking at the ethical and environmental implications of how we select and incorporate animal foods, especially beef, into our family diets.   Diana Rogers is a Registered Dietitian and host of the Sustainable Dish podcast. She's also the author of the book Sacred Cow: The Case for (Better) Meat and producer of the just-released film Sacred Cow: The Nutritional, Environmental and Ethical Case for Better Meat. I hope you'll enjoy this spirited conversation with Diana about the pros and the potential drawbacks of choosing different types of meat for your baby to eat.   If you're ready to raise an independent eater and prevent picky eating then let's get started learning about baby-led weaning together! Subscribe, rate and review the podcast here.   FREE BABY-LED WEANING FOR BEGINNERS ONLINE WORKSHOP: https://babyledweaning.co/workshop?utm_source=Shownotes&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=Episode%20Link   FOLLOW @BABYLEDWEANTEAM ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/babyledweanteam/   SHOWNOTES FOR THIS EPISODE: https://blwpodcast.com/76 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

#76: Grass-fed. Grass-finished. Pasture-raised...hormone-free...antibiotic-free, humanely processed. When it comes to meat, what does it all mean? Self-proclaimed “rogue dietitian” Diana Rodgers joins me for an interview to talk about what it means to select sustainable meat.   For families who do eat animal products, these foods represent important nutrient, taste and texture opportunities for your baby. But Diana takes meat considerations a few steps further: looking at the ethical and environmental implications of how we select and incorporate animal foods, especially beef, into our family diets.   Diana Rogers is a Registered Dietitian and host of the Sustainable Dish podcast. She’s also the author of the book Sacred Cow: The Case for (Better) Meat and producer of the just-released film Sacred Cow: The Nutritional, Environmental and Ethical Case for Better Meat. I hope you’ll enjoy this spirited conversation with Diana about the pros and the potential drawbacks of choosing different types of meat for your baby to eat.   If you’re ready to raise an independent eater and prevent picky eating then let’s get started learning about baby-led weaning together! Subscribe, rate and review the podcast here.   FREE BABY-LED WEANING FOR BEGINNERS ONLINE WORKSHOP: https://babyledweaning.co/workshop   FREE BABY-LED WEANING RECIPE IDEAS FACEBOOK GROUP: https://www.facebook.com/groups/babyledweaningrecipes/   FOLLOW @BABYLEDWEANTEAM ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/babyledweanteam/   SHOWNOTES FOR THIS EPISODE: https://blwpodcast.com/76

Chris Sayegh here, the CEO of @the_herbal_chef. It’s an honor to bring on Diana Rodgers for OF EARTH Ep.6. Diana Rodgers is the Registered Dietician behind the Sustainable Dish. Diana has dedicated her life’s work to sustainability, social justice, animal welfare, and food policy issues. She is the co-author of the book, ‘Sacred Cow, The Case for Better Meat.’ She’s also working on a new book and film project, Sacred Cow, exploring the important role of animals in our food system. I am really excited to have this conversation that will bring light to a very controversial topic of meat consumption. We have all been lead to believe one thing or another about meat, so I asked some hard questions and received some really incredible answers that I’m excited to discuss with you guys. “When you look at total ecosystem function and the ability for cattle to actually sequester carbon, for them to increase water holding capacity of the soil, increase biodiversity, and really up-cycle nutrient-poor foods that we can’t eat into nutrient-dense foods we can, then grazing animals wins on all of those levels and that's something that plant-based proteins absolutely cannot do.” - Diana Rodgers, RD Be sure to check out Ep.6 of the OF EARTH podcast. You can find it on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Play You can find more from Diana Rodgers: Online - www.sustainabledish.com Instagram - @sustainabledish

**DISCLAIMER: Please note that the views of our podcast guests may not always align with the views of Nutritank** This week, we bring you the third instalment of our series in integrative oncology. We are delving deep into the role of nutrition in cancer care with the help of three fantastic guests: Toral Shah: Nutritional scientist, functional medicine practitioner, food and health writer and the founder of the Urban Kitchen; Nicky Robinson: Nutrition Lead at Penny Brohn (UK cancer charity) and Professor Robert Thomas: Consultant Oncologist at Bedford and Addenbroke’s Hospital and clinical teacher at Cambridge University (This is a shortened list of our guests many accolades!) During this episode we talk about the effects of diet on the microbiome and how this may influence body processes; The role of diet and nutrition in cancer and how one can find the support and tools necessary to make dietary changes and the importance of finding balance in our eating patterns rather than villainising certain foods. We touch on where patients and those who are interested can find legitimate sources of information regarding nutrition and cancer, and how to avoid unregulated dietary advice on the internet. In more specific detail, our guests discuss the role of a whole food polyphenol rich diet for health and the importance of individualised nutritional support when it comes to cancer care. We hope that you enjoy this episode, packed full of evidence-based knowledge and wisdom from some of the leading voices in the field of nutrition and cancer care. Podcast show notes: Rober Thomas: http://www.cancernet.co.uk/rthomas.htm Toral Shah: https://www.theurbankitchen.co.uk/pages/toral-shah Penny Brohn: https://www.pennybrohn.org.uk/ WCRF: https://www.wcrf-uk.org/ Social Media: Penny Brohn: @PennyBrohnUK Toral Shah: @theurbankitchen The Sustainable Dish: @thesustainabledish

The colonization and industrialization of our food system have wreaked havoc on our environment and health, but what's often untold about this system is the trauma Indigenous communities experienced throughout the history of this extractive expansion.   In this episode of the Sustainable Dish Podcast, I sit down with Sanjay Rawal, the director of the new film, Gather, "an intimate portrait of the growing movement amongst Native Americans to reclaim their spiritual, political and cultural identities through food sovereignty, while battling the trauma of centuries of genocide."   We discuss his journey into filmmaking (his first film, Food Chains, about migrant agricultural labor in the U.S., is a must-see), how he, as a non-native, fostered a deep sense of collaboration with the First Nations Development Institute in efforts to genuinely portray the native characters in the film, why Indigenous land stewardship holds the solutions to the restoration and regeneration our soils need, and how the development of our connections to the land and the foods that make us who we are can not only restore food sovereignty, but also our health, culture, environment, and more.   Gather is a beautiful film and a collection of stories infused with history, reclamation, and hope. It's also a portrait showing us solutions that have always been here: Indigenous land stewardship, or what we non-natives are now calling regenerative agriculture.   To learn more about and watch Gather, visit the website and follow them on Instagram and Facebook.   To make an impact to support the First Nations Development Institute, visit their website here.   This was a joy to record! I hope you enjoy it, too!   This episode is brought to you by Blue Nest Beef. There's a lot of choices for "better" beef out there and the folks at Blue Nest Beef are grassfed pioneers who've perfected all the steps it takes to make better beef even better. Not only is their beef delicious, but it comes exclusively from American ranchers who have been certified by the National Audubon Society as ranchers who are regenerating our land and bird habitats. If you're looking for better beef, visit their website here and use the discount code "2BUYBLUENEST" for 15% off your first order!   Thanks, and enjoy the show!

Diana Rodgers is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist, host of the podcast Sustainable Dish, and the filmmaker and author behind the new film/book project Sacred Cow that looks at if meat can be a healthy and sustainable part of a diet.  She talks with Heath about what drew her to this subject, working on her first documentary film, and what she sees as the broken and vulnerable parts of our national food system.

This episode is a must listen, I would say, especially for women and moms. I’m here with Diana Rogers, who is a licensed, registered dietician with a focus on real foods. She’s the host of the “Sustainable Dish” podcast, a mom of two, and an internationally recognized speaker on topics like sustainability, social justice, animal …

This episode is a must listen, I would say, especially for women and moms. I’m here with Diana Rogers, who is a licensed, registered dietician with a focus on real foods. She’s the host of the “Sustainable Dish” podcast, a mom of two, and an internationally recognized speaker on topics like sustainability, social justice, animal …

This episode is a must listen, I would say, especially for women and moms. I’m here with Diana Rogers, who is a licensed, registered dietician with a focus on real foods. She’s the host of the “Sustainable Dish” podcast, a mom of two, and an internationally recognized speaker on topics like sustainability, social justice, animal …

TRANSCRIPT BELOW What a treat getting to chat to this man! In this podcast you will learn where things are going wrong with our health today, and what we can do about it. When we can understand the lever that is insulin - and thus insulin resistance - we gain back a lot of control over our own health. In terms of the lipid values we talked about: In the US, values are expressed as mg/dl: Ben was talking that the ratio of triglycerides to HDL should be less than 1.5. In Australia, values are expressed as mmol/L, the ratio of trigs to HDL should be less than 0.87. I encourage you to buy Ben's book: Why We Get Sick. It is an an excellent read, and while he is a Professor, he puts things in really easy to understand terms. A true gentleman and a lovely man in every way. Benjamin Bikman earned his Ph.D. in Bioenergetics and was a postdoctoral fellow with the Duke-National University of Singapore in metabolic disorders. Currently, his professional focus as a scientist and associate professor (Brigham Young University) is to better understand the role of elevated insulin in regulating obesity and diabetes, including the relevance of ketones in mitochondrial function. You can find Ben on all channels of social media, and here on his website: BIKMANLAB.BYU.EDU. ******** http://www.traceymcbeath.com.au tracey@traceymcbeath.com.au Instagram: @tracey_mcbeath_healthcoach Facebook: Tracey McBeath Health Coach To purchase the Summit Replay: http://bit.ly/longweekendreplay If you are a health practitioner and are interested in learning how to bring low carb in to your practice and reverse insulin resistance in your patients, the Nutrition Network has a number of programs to help. For GP's; Dietitians; Nurses and Health Coaches. The Nutrition Network is run by the Noakes Foundation. To learn more, click here: http://bit.ly/nutritionnetwork   Dr Ben Bikman (00:00): It's suffice it to say, virtually every chronic disease has some connection to insulin resistance where the insulin resistance is either explicitly causing the problem, or it's exacerbating it, or accelerating the problem. Tracey (00:13): Hello everyone, and welcome to the health evolution podcast. This is episode 66 and you are so in for a treat today. What an amazing chat I had with the incredible Dr. Ben Bickman, who has so much knowledge. Not only that, he puts this knowledge into such easy to understand terms. So this whole podcast, is talking about why we get sick. It's the title of the new book he has recently produced, and I highly recommend that you buy this book. It is amazing, and there's so much information in here. So that's really what we're going to be talking about. And of course, looking at the fundamental cause of many modern diseases today, which is the fact that our insulin isn't working the way it should. And that's due to lifestyle, genetics, a whole range of conditions that we also talk about. So these are things like type two diabetes, some cancers, heart disease; a lot of stuff that in today's modern world, we attribute to other causes and we just treat the symptoms. Tracey (01:19): But when you look at the reasons and the causes of these diseases - insulin resistance being the number one, and you know that it's actually possible to reverse and turn that around with lifestyle changes, then this podcast holds so much hope. So enjoy it. And I'd like to say a huge thank you to my friend, Carmel, who was kind enough to reach out and offer to do the transcribing for these podcasts. So I will release the podcasts as I get them done. And then when Carmel has the time to do the transcript, she will do that. And I will add it in as soon as it's done. So thank you, Carmel. I love the community I'm involved in. Thank you to you for listening to the podcast. Please, you can do me a favor by rating, by making a nice comment and by sharing this podcast so we can help as many people as possible see the potential that is a health evolution . Tracey McBeath (02:37): Today on the health evolution collective I'm here with Dr. Ben, big Ben, what an honor to have you here on my show. Thank you so much. Ben (02:45): Oh, Tracey. It is my pleasure. Thanks for the thanks for the invitation. Tracey :50): Oh, absolutely. So I have been following you for quite some time now. I absolutely love the work you do, and the way you present it to people. It just is so easy to understand, and you give people so much; so much information to help them with their health. Before we get into your talking about your awesome book, 'Why We Get Sick', can you just share a little bit about, I guess, you know, you're a scientist and professor, but what's led you to writing this book, 'Why We Get Sick'. Ben (03:20): Yeah, again, thanks for the invitation and for the introduction. My focus as a scientist is in general terms, metabolic health, but it was a bit of an unexpected route. Although it didn't take me long to get on it, but my initial graduate work was focused on muscle cells. And I was curious about the process whereby a muscle cell, well, muscles would get bigger and better. But by the end of my masters degree, I was actually far more interested in fat cells. Around that time, a few years prior to me doing a masters degree, I had stumbled across this study that explored the endocrine features of fat cells. Basically it was this to me, a discovery that fat cells actually release hormones, release proteins, and that some of these proteins are pro-inflammatory proteins. And that at the time , was thought to be really the single variable in how someone could be obese, and that would start spilling into type two diabetes. Ben  (04:23): It was this obesity induced insulin resistance, which started as a research interest in muscle cells that quickly shifted to a research focus on fat cells. And now I'd say that it's really the tissue or the cells that I focus on most as a cell biologist, namely the fat cells. My focus now is, what are the variables that are stimulating growth of fate cells, the shrinking of fat cells, and fat cells behaving entirely differently; you know the metabolic rate difference. That means I focus a lot on the hormone, insulin, because you really can't understand a fat cell without looking at it, at least partially through the lens of insulin. Tracey (05:11): Now we are going to really understand what insulin is and the term insulin resistance. This is talked about a lot, but I think a lot of people don't really understand this. But before we do, can I ask you, people also talk about metabolic health and I've been guilty of that; you know, I had someone say to me the other day, what do you mean by metabolic health? What does that actually mean? Can you explain that a little bit? Ben  (05:33): Right. I suppose metabolic health probably has a different definition according to every kind of biomedical scientist or clinician. To me, I suppose the simplest definition of metabolic health would be that the person is insulin sensitive. But if that's still a little too vague, then I would say metabolic health would be someone having an OK grade, if you will, on the five variables that are conventionally used to indicate the metabolic syndrome. And so in other words, the metabolic health would be someone who has a normal waist circumference (so if they measured their fatness around their waist,) and then second, they have a normal blood glucose, and normal blood pressure. Then the last two are basically just normal lipid levels - normal triglycerides and HDL cholesterol. Those five variables constitute the constellation of what's called the metabolic syndrome. And so I suppose if we use that as a foundation, we could say in turn, well metabolic health then is being OK in all of those categories. But the truth of the matter is back to my original answer. All of those things are very much related to; insulin resistance when they go poorly, or if they're working well, then it's an insulin sensitive person. Tracey  (06:54): Makes a lot of sense. So obviously when we're talking about metabolic health, i.e. how our body can make energy, and how it functions, then when we can have those conditions (our body is not functioning optimally); we're tired, we don't have a lot of energy because our body is basically struggling to keep us well . Ben  (07:10): That's right. But something you said also prompted another thought, one other perhaps definition of metabolic health would be based on this idea of fuel or energy that you mentioned. So for example, well specifically that would be someone who has metabolic flexibility. At its simplest, it's just this idea that the human metabolism or our energy needs, can shift between the two primary metabolic fuels; that when we've eaten a meal, we go to a glucose burning or sugar burning, you know, blood sugar, that being the primary fuel that the body is using. And then several hours after eating, in other words, getting into this at least mild state of fasting, then we shift to predominantly obtaining most of our energy from fat. So we go to fat burning if you will. So this ability to shift from glucose burning to fat burning very readily when we eat and when we aren't eating, that is a good, also a good definition of metabolic health. But again, that idea is metabolic flexibility. But once again, even that can be seen through the lens of insulin in so far as insulin dictates what fuel we're using. Tracey (08:19): Okay. So let's learn about insulin. So I think firstly, what is its role? I know in the book you go into a lot of detail and I definitely encourage people listening to get the book and really understand it. But just in terms of a brief summary on this amazing hormone. Ben (08:38): Yes, it is amazing. And I think it really is unappreciated given how relevant it is in so much health and disease. Ben  (08:46): The most obvious effect or role of insulin is to control blood glucose. And that's how most people understand it. And that's okay. That's fine, because it is a very powerful influence. It is really the single hormone that will lower blood glucose. Whereas, there are multiple other hormones that will increase blood glucose. So it does its job well. Now it's helped with other processes in the body that can also act to lower blood glucose, but that is the most sort of poster child example of what insulin does, it lowers blood glucose. But the truth is far more complicated and that's because insulin affects every cell in the body. Literally every cell in our bodies has insulin receptors. So these little sites where the hormone insulin can come in and dock and bind and then tell the cell to do something. Ben  (09:39): And because every cell in the body has these insulin receptors and the various cells in the body play different roles, they do different things. It's not surprising that insulin will do different things at different cells. But the theme of it, the general theme across all of the cells of the body is that insulin tells the cells what to do with energy. It can not only stimulate the uptake of energy in most cells, but it will also then tell that cell what to do with it. And once again, the theme of that is, storage. Insulin wants to store energy and even to the point that it will lower metabolic rate in the body to help the body store more energy. So insulin abhors wasting it abhors breaking things down. It just wants to build things up, including fat in our fat cells and have it get locked away untouched by the body. Tracey (10:34): So without insulin, then obviously we wouldn't be here. If we think about our evolution in times of when food we had to hunt for it, today we don't have to do anything for it, apart from a walk to the supermarket. Without insulin, we wouldn't have got through winter. Ben (10:50): Absolutely. We would have no kind of metabolic insurance, if you will. We would have no energy storage, if it weren't for insulin. It is impossible, to my knowledge. For any organism, from fruit flies to humans, and every other less complicated organisms and humans, and more complicated organisms than fruit flies; insulin must be present and indeed elevated in order for that organism to store any energy. I don't believe it is possible in any other, without insulin. You take away the insulin and immediately this is an organism that loses its ability to store energy in any way, including energy in the liver. And very obviously, loses the ability to store any energy in fat cells. Tracey (11:40): Where has it gone wrong. So you talk in the book, well Jason Fung talks about how, you know, how this has changed so much over probably only really a few generations. I mean, it used to be, you know, we got sick, from dysentery and diseases and things like that. So how has it changed, and why has it changed and what does it have to do with insulin? Ben  (12:02): Right. We see obesity strictly through this calorie centric paradigm or perspective. So we look at the fat cell regulation only in the context of, is energy being used or stored, as if the fat cell is just the simple kind of bank account idea. It's just these deposits and withdrawals that are just happening passively. Almost as if the energy we eat it, just comes into the fat cell and comes out when we need it. But that is just not true. We are far more complicated organisms. In order to understand human obesity, I strongly believe we need to consider, yes energy, calories, but also hormones. If we take hormones out of this equation we are doomed, because then we just fall into this cycle of failure of trying to starve ourselves to weight loss. And to your point a moment ago, in this environment in today's world, hunger will always win. Ben (13:05): I stole this analogy from Gary Taubes, a very wonderful author. I'd recommend anyone ,after they read my book, go read some of Gary's books. They're wonderful, but he once shared this and then I stole it and I share it with my students. When I discuss obesity in my patho-physiology class, I present this caloric paradigm and then we start poking holes in it. I show them some of the data that challenges that it is just purely a caloric imbalance. I present this analogy, which is, that I'm having the best chefs in the world come to my home. Everyone's invited. I want you to come as hungry as possible. What would you do to make sure you came to this glorious buffet as hungry as possible? And invariably my hundred and 30 clever young undergraduates come to these two ideas. Ben  (13:57): And that is that they would exercise more in the time preceding the dinner and they would eat less. Exercise, more, eat less; these are the two pillars of the current dietary advice that we give people when we need them to lose weight, but hunger always wins. In this environment of readily accessible food, hunger will win. Now, I'm not saying there's no role for discipline and denial of indulgence. I do think that's very important, but I think we can help the person through that, by not forcing hunger on them all the time. And when someone realizes that, they can start leveraging, changing their insulin levels in order to favour this process. They don't have to be hungry; they can be eating in such a way that keeps their insulin down. You are then allowing the fat cells to share their energy, their fat ,with the body to be used and you also shift into that highest rate of fat burning and your metabolic rate, actual accounting for calories, which a caloric purist wants to do. The metabolic rate goes up even to the point where it can raise by almost 300 calories per day, if someone's eating meals that are keeping insulin low. So addressing the endocrine aspect of obesity, namely insulin, I think that the person really has a very effective tool that they now can use that they wouldn't have had otherwise, if they're were just focusing purely on calorie number. Tracey (15:26): Well, you've just really given us all a great reason to drop the belief that we have to be hungry in order to lose weight, because I see it every day. It's one of the biggest challenges with most of my clients, you know, getting them to see that we actually can lose weight. And in fact, we do it so much easier when we are not hungry. And it does come from manipulating insulin if you like, understanding it, working with it, working with those hormones in our body. It's a huge thing because I know certainly until I was 40, that's how I thought. And I was a personal trainer then, and I was continuing to spread that myth that it is about calories in calories out. And if you're not feeling hungry, you're not going to be losing weight. What a revelation to see, we don't have to do that. Ben  (16:13): The nuances with insulin and obesity, I certainly touch on that in my book, but there are some other wonderful books, including Jason Fung and Gary Tobbs that I would recommend anyone read to just get more of a well rounded idea of obesity.Because while I certainly touch on that, and I'm a fat cell scientist, I look at it more in the context of overall disease in the book. Tracey (16:34): Absolutely. So then what happens when things go wrong with insulin? And one of the scariest things I read, was that most people are actually walking around, not even realizing that insulin isn't working, that they have insulin resistance. Ben (16:50): It is, I consider it the most common or widespread disorder in the world. And so we are not only, not diagnosing it correctly, but we're also not appreciating its role in other diseases, which means we're missing the potential to treat a patient much, much better. And so basically with insulin resistance, the simplest definition, and you kind of mentioned this, it's just when insulin isn't working the right way at various cells in the body. Now at some cells , insulin's working perfectly fine, but at other cells it is not. And that imbalance actually becomes a problem. And we appreciate the fact that in a body that is insulin resistant, insulin levels themselves are much, much higher than before. So those two features come together; insulin isn't working the right way throughout the body, and insulin levels themselves or itself is much higher. So some cells that are continuing to respond to insulin normally now are hyperactive with their insulin. Ben (17:54): Insulin is now telling the cell to do too much, and the cell is sensitive to that signal, so it keeps doing too much. Then there other cells that aren't really getting the signal very well at all. So those two variables are what comes into play, making insulin resistance, the problem that it is. And in this, we could almost, as you know, from going through the book, it is shocking how many diseases, chronic diseases that we think would have no metabolic origins actually have at their core, an unavoidable metabolic origin. For example, the hyperinsulinemia that comes with the high insulin levels that someone has an insulin resistance. If we look at what that does to the ovaries in a woman, it's profound. The most common form of infertility in women, is a disease called polycystic ovarian syndrome. Ben  (18:45): The woman is going through the menstrual cycle. The ovaries are developing a lot of little eggs every month, but in order for all the rest of the eggs to go away, one of them must ovulate. And with that one egg ovulating from one of the ovaries, then all the other kind of budding little eggs will go away. But in the absence of one ovulating, all of those little eggs stick around and they become these big cysts in the ovaries. That problem happens because the woman doesn't get this big estrogen spike, which she needs immediately proceeding ovulation, this big estrogen spike, and one other hormone. Well, many hormones come into play, but estrogen spike is a big one. Too much insulin blocks the ovaries from making that big estrogen spike. Insulin inhibits the process whereby, in fact this is fascinating, but all estrogen hormones were once testosterone, the ovaries convert the testosterone into the estrogens. Ben (19:43): And this happens in men and women. Of course, in women, it happens more in women, thus having higher estrogen levels than men. But that one enzyme that mediates that conversion from testosterone to estrogens is inhibited by insulin. And so the woman who has insulin resistance and high insulin levels at her ovaries, the insulin is directly preventing that big estrogen surge, preventing ovulation. And as a background problem, when she has too much testosterone she'll start to have other problems like more coarse body hair, for example, or acne like you might have in an adolescent boy, who's going through a big testosterone surge. So that's a problem with the ovaries. When we look at the brain, some of the brain's energy comes from glucose from the blood, and insulin mediates some of that movement of the glucose into the brain. Ben (20:36): And so when the brain becomes insulin resistant, it can't get enough of its energy from glucose anymore. And so there's this kind of gap of energy. You know, the brain's energetic need is up here. Glucose used to give all of it to the brain, but now the brains become insulin resistant. And now we have this gap where the glucose can't meet the need, and the person starts to develop brain disorders, including Alzheimer's disease and including migraines, frankly, even migraines are looked at as a bit of an energetic deficit in the brain. So I could keep going. We can talk about muscles, bones, joints, liver, kidneys, eyes; it's suffice it to say virtually every chronic disease has some connection to insulin resistance where the insulin resistance is either explicitly causing the problem or it's exacerbating it or accelerating the problem. Tracey (21:26): So what I find interesting with what you're saying there, that there isn't a neat and homogenous condition. You know, it's not that you're either insulin resistant or you're not, it is a spectrum. And as you said, clearly it affects the body in different parts and in different ways. I just wanted to ask, is that kind of potluck. So if I was insulin resistant in the brain versus somebody else in their ovaries, is that a genetic thing? Is it just pot-luck? How does that work? Ben (21:54): Yeah. That's a great question. There could certainly be some instances of that happening, but that would be very uncommon. The common process would be that the fat cells become insulin resistant first. So there is no total consensus on this. So I'd want anyone to sort of take this with a grain of salt where I'm speculating a bit, but at the risk of sounding smug, it's informed speculation. So I think the fat cells become insulin resistant first, that's the first domino to fall, but then it starts bumping into the other dominoes or basically spreading that insulin resistance around throughout the body. And then what would cause someone to then have say, the ovaries get affected before the liver would, for example, if we take two organs that are just right around the same area; I don't know. Ben (22:46): I'm not sure what would predispose one, what the next issue would be versus the other. But in general, I think it would be safe to assume that the fat cells are the first to become insulin resistant. And as they become insulin resistant, they start leaking fat throughout the body and they start leaking those pro-inflammatory proteins that I mentioned earlier, these what's called cytokines. And those two things are really the key variables, the key parts of the equation that equals insulin resistance; the leaking of fat, the free fatty acids from fat cells and the fat cells leaking these pro-inflammatory proteins. As these start to spread through the body, they cause other tissues to become insulin resistant. Tracey (23:27): So that leaking of fat is that triglyceride marker, is it? Ben (23:31): So actually these fats would be the free fatty acids. So when the the fat cells are breaking down their fats, they are leaked as free fatty acids. The triglycerides are predominantly coming from the fat we make in the liver, which is again, another insulin signal telling the liver to make triglycerides. Tracey (23:52): Okay. All right. So what I'm hearing from you here is that insulin resistance, isn't just a risk factor for type two diabetes. We haven't actually really even touched on that yet. You've talked about all of these other conditions that insulin resistance is the precursor for be it, most people will tend to think that it's type two diabetes that is the biggest risk factor, or the only thing we're likely to get if we're insulin resistance, but that's clearly not the case. Ben (24:22): No, that's right. Yeah. In fact, it's far from a guarantee that the person would progress to full on type two diabetes. What is far more likely is that they would have hypertension, so high blood pressure, fatty liver disease. Then a woman would have polycystic ovarian syndrome; a man would have erectile dysfunction that's also a common early symptom or sign of insulin resistance. Yes. So waiting and that's part of the problem. And I do emphasize the word waiting. When we look at insulin resistance strictly through the lens of type two diabetes, it is unfair to the hormone insulin, which I believe is the more relevant one. And we shift our focus to glucose. But the tragedy of that perspective, if we look at all metabolic health, just through the lens of glucose, as if it's like a progression just towards type two diabetes; then we're only looking at the glucose and we fail to acknowledge the reality that behind the scenes underlying that normal glucose is this ever increasing insulin level where the body has to work harder and harder. Ben  (25:28): The insulin has to work harder and harder in order to keep that glucose in check. That is the insulin resistance. In other words, if we looked at the insulin, we would have detected the problem potentially decades, 10 or 20 years before the glucose would have changed, but we don't look at insulin. It has not made its way into just the common clinical diagnostic. When someone comes in for a conventional or just routine lab visit, we always measure glucose. We always measure the lipids. And I think those are fine. They certainly have value, but if we really want to detect insulin resistance, we've got to bring in insulin. We have to allow it into the discussion Tracey (26:10): We do. But as you say, it's not a standard test. In fact, just yesterday, a client told me that a doctor refused to check it, because I give a recommended list of what are their blood tests to go and ask for from your doctor, and one of them is fasting insulin. No, doctor wouldn't do it. When you understand what you're saying, that this is going to tell us what's going on with our metabolic health, 10 to 20 years prior to being diagnosed with type two diabetes. We know PCO for females that usually teenagers are getting that. And then of course, breast cancer is another one I know you've spoken about and being mostly women, listening to these podcasts, that's something I'd love to talk about as well but why is this happening? Ben (26:52): I know isn't it. Well, I often say that it was forgivable. It was forgivable that the focus was exclusively on glucose because of two reasons. One, traditionally the most obvious sign of diabetes was the excessive urine production, what we call polyuria. The person was just urinating gallons and gallons of urine every day. And that was because of the high glucose. And we knew that even early physicians hundred thousands of years ago, because the urine was enriched with the glucose. They'd see animals, dogs would want to come and lick up that glucose and the flies with just swarm to it, to eat all those sugars from the urine. And so the most obvious symptom, polyuria, was directly a result of the high glucose levels. And then the second reason why it was forgivable is that scientifically we were able to measure glucose from the blood far, far earlier than we could ever measure insulin. Ben (27:51): So we had the technology to measure this molecule when we did not have the technology to measure insulin. And even nowadays, as you just mentioned, it's getting the insulin measure is not a simple test. It is a full on blood test at the lab. It often incurs a cost that depending on the healthcare model or in the U S the insurance that a person has, it might not get covered. And so the physician may be reluctant. Even if the physician appreciates the value of insulin, they may be reluctant simply because they know the insurance won't pay for this. I can't bill it and the patient doesn't want to pay for it. Then I have to get in a fight with the patient. So it's unfortunate, but given how it is getting easier and easier to measure insulin, these costs are coming down. It's getting less forgivable to not measure insulin. Ben (28:43): Now I will say there is a poor man's method where if someone has gone into their physician and gotten, or the clinic and gotten a blood test, if they can measure their triglyceride, they will almost always get a triglyceride number and an HDL cholesterol number. And they can take at least in the U S in the milligrams per deciliter. I don't know how it would equate with Millie Mueller in Australia. But if it's looked at with milligrams per deciliter, it's 1.5. If the triglyceride divided by HDL cholesterol is less than 1.5, it is a strong indicator that the person is insulin sensitive. So even if they don't get their insulin measured, if they meet that or below that 1.5 ratio of triglycerides to HDL cholesterol, then they're very likely. Tracey (29:30): Fantastic. I will put that down below in the show notes for people and I'll work it out. I've got a couple of clients in the U S, so yes, it can get a bit tricky. Ben (29:42): I'm from Canada originally, so I should be able to actually do this fluently, but I can't. I'm too American now. Tracey (29:47): Well, of course. So just going on then, from what you were saying, you can get a blood test and looking at your triglycerides and your HDL is one great one. And of course we've got the HBA1C which is another good marker. But what would be some of the signs we might be looking for in our body to give us an indicator that maybe we are insulin resistant? Ben (30:08): Yeah, so I believe the most obvious often is hypertension. If a person has high blood pressure and, they are even a little overweight like they have a bit of a bigger waist circumference, very likely they need look no further. They're very likely insulin resistant. There are some other signs that we see in some people, which is changes in the skin, Where if the person has a little more fat on them, they'll have a little bit of a ring around the back of their neck. And that is the most obvious spot that can also happen on the armpits, but they will start to have two skin changes. And this is typically more advanced insulin resistance, but they will have these little skin bumps called skin tags. And they do kind of bump up like a little stalk almost, like a little column of skin. And then they will have a dark and thickened more rough skin. And that's a condition called [inaudible] anthesis nigricans. But basically it's that the skin gets kind of darker and rough. Now, of course, on a pale fellow like myself, that becomes quite obvious. On the darker, the complexion, the darkening of the skin will become harder to see, but the touch, the feel, the very coarse rough skin, that will, of course still be very obvious to the touch even to the site. Tracey (31:31): So there's some definitely clear markers, but again, we have to be aware of it. And also knowing that how much of what we carry on and think is normal, we put down to a normal part of aging. I've actually been told myself. I went to a local GP, I needed to just get some bloods done. And I asked for, I think it was just the HBA1C. He was like, what do you want that for; you're thin, you don't need to worry about anything like that. So this is the stuff I think people are up against when they do go to their doctor and ask for these types of things. But there's so much that we can do ourselves to see where we're at in terms of our metabolic health and not put it down to aging. Because so much of what we think is normal, is not normal and it can be reversed. Ben (32:17): Oh yes, yes. I absolutely agree. We should fight the good fight. We should not just look at our worsening metabolic health and just shrug our shoulders. There's too much to live for. There's too much to enjoy. Much of my motivation nowadays is I look at my little kids and first of all, I tremendously miss them not being babies anymore, but I'm already looking forward to them having babies. And they're still all young, but I'm thinking I want to be a really fit grandpa. But even if someone doesn't have that sort of familial motivation, if you will, it's just self-interest to want to just live healthy and then die. We don't want that prolonged morbidity of not being able to get up, not being able to do things we enjoy. And then having a miserable last 20 years of life just filled with pain and disease. No, we should fight it and then be healthy, fit up until the end and then have this, what we call a compressed morbidity. We get sick and die, you know, in months. Tracey (33:19): Yeah. That's what I want too, and I don't think people realize that this is what happens. You know, we're so clever in medicine at prolonging life. It's the quality of life that is just crap and extended and the impact that that has on the family. I think, you know, we have to look at all of that, them having to care for you, all the stuff they've got to do to look after you. You know, I think if we can take all that into consideration, we're going to be a little more motivated to go the hard yards, to do lifestyle change or change what we eat or do whatever it is that we need to do to help reverse this stuff. Even if it's hard, because it is hard, as we know, you. There's so many factors that come into it, but it's worth it. I'm with you, I just want to go. I don't want to have to go through 20 years of slow progressive, horrible stuff. Ben (34:12): No, but I like what you said. I totally agree. I love what you said though, where modern medicine technology basically allows us to live with disease. And that's a sad reality where now more than ever, it's an interesting kind of dichotomy. For example, if we look at heart disease, which I believe I'm sure in Australia is the same in the US, that is the leading cause of death. What's so interesting though, is that the number of people dying from heart disease actually has trended down a little bit, but the number of people with heart disease has spiked dramatically. And so we have more people than ever getting it, which is totally a result of our lifestyle, but because of modern technology, the person can live with it. And I think we almost disincentivize them from, like you said, doing the hard work to turn that around. We are increasingly a global culture that is really just interested in taking a pill, but no pill can cure a chronic disease. It can only treat symptoms. It can never fix it. And that is even more the case with insulin resistance and all the chronic diseases that stem from it. These are not diseases that are caused by the absence of a drug. These are diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle and thus lifestyle is either the culprit or the cure. We've just got to do the hard work to change it. Tracey (35:40): So I definitely want to talk about the lifestyle next, before we get into that, which is to the more, you know, what we can do about it. Can you just share a little bit for my listeners around the link between insulin resistance and something like breast cancer. Ben (35:53): Yeah. Right, right. And you mentioned that earlier. I should have mentioned it then. The risk of breast cancer, I don't believe the insulin resistance is causing the cancer, but there's no doubt that insulin resistance and bad glucose management is exacerbating. And by that, I mean, there was a study done in women where they compared a biopsy of normal breast tissue with a breast tumor. They found in the breast tumor, it had seven times more insulin receptors than the normal breast tissue did. That was part of the mutation that part of it that's in cancer. It is just a series of mutations that allow the cancer cell an advantage over the normal cells. It can grow better and faster. Insulin tells cells to grow. And so by having seven times more insulin receptors in the normal breast tissue, this tumor, we can conclude, seven times more responsive to insulin's growth signals. Ben (36:52): Now that alone is bad, but when we combine it with the high glucose that people have often, or at least constantly eating foods that turn into glucose in the blood, glucose is the fuel for cancer cells in tumors. If you look at human tumors, they use glucose as a fuel. In fact, their glucose use is roughly 200 times greater than normal cells. So these things have an incredible need for energy. And so in the case of insulin resistance, it's a perfect storm. We are giving them a lot of insulin, stimulating that growth to which they're more sensitive, very likely anyway, with more insulin receptors. And then we are fueling that growth by giving them all the glucose they want, because that is the only fuel like a bacteria. It is the only fuel a cancer cell can use. It exclusively relies on glucose as its fuel. So in the case of insulin resistance in breast cancer, we are giving the cancer, the tumor cell, all it needs. Tracey (37:52): Wow, and we've got a long way to go I think, for specialists to give that advice to women. I don't think it's common knowledge. Ben (37:59): Oh no, no, certainly not here. And I'm sure it's the same in Australia. The American cancer society, as much as ever is still promoting a low fat, high carbohydrate diet, rich with complex carbohydrates and whole grains. The reality is all that stuff turns into glucose. You can put a pretty little package on it and say that it's a whole grain. The intestines don't care, it digests it into the same glucose molecules that we get from any other source of starches and sugars , and the cancer cell doesn't care where the glucose came from. Tracey (38:29): So that's a nice way to move into what we can do about it then. So in terms of lifestyle change, food is obviously a pretty big one that we can ultimately at the end of every day or during every day, we choose what we put in our mouth. Now we may be driven by metabolic imbalances and, you know, addictions or sugar urges spiking through us, but there's certainly a lot we can see around that. So let's talk about your take on what we should be eating, I suppose, to give ourselves the best chance of having metabolic health? Ben (39:00): In fact, I, I like what you mentioned a moment ago, sort of alluding to this habit, or even dare I say addictions. And so the advice, I won't even call it advice. My sentiments on the best dietary changes in order to improve insulin resistance are simple, as I'll explain in a moment. But I wouldn't want any of your listeners to think I'm being condescending or smug when I say that, because while the ideas are simple, I fully understand implementing them is not so easy. And that's because we start dealing with addictions and namely, when someone is sitting around on a Saturday night, enjoying a movie at home, no one is sitting there thinking, Oh, I sure could use a plate of scrambled eggs. No, no one says that. What a wonderful world that would be. We are, or at least for me, I am craving something salty and crunchy or sweet and gooey. Ben (39:55): And each of those is going to be essentially built on some sugar and starch of some kind, you know, with some yummy fat thrown in there. And that combination is a wicked delicious one. So I appreciate anyone listening. I know these are not easy, even as long as I've been doing it, the little kind of addictions or the cravings that I just mentioned, I still feel that regularly. And it's just, there is that matter of willpower or even dare I say a support network, you know, letting your loved ones know what you're trying to do and genuinely soliciting their help, but that's outside my territory. Let me just stick with what I think are the scientifically sound principles. So first one is, to me, it is first for a reason because it is the most important and possibly the hardest. And that is control carbohydrates. Ben (40:46): Essentially someone just needs to be smart about their starches and their sugars. With regards to sugars, it's acknowledging the sugar when you're getting it, but people don't know. They might think they're cutting out sugar, but sugar is in virtually every condiment. I think over 70% of all packaged foods, there is sugar in there in some substantial amount. So we need to control the amount of sugar we're eating and, and then just be smarter about the starches we're eating. And basically the simplest idea there is to, focus on whole fruits and vegetables. And there's maybe a little more nuance there depending on how healthy the person is. But basically that's going to be a safe bet; focus on fruits and vegetables, dump everything else. Then the second idea is to prioritize protein, to make sure you eat enough protein that you feel satisfied and that you're meeting your body's genuine needs for protein. Ben (41:44): I don't want it this to sound controversial or smug or offensive; that can't come from plant proteins. Plant proteins are inferior in every way. I hate if that's an offensive idea to some, but it is quantifiably true . Plant proteins, neither have the right mix of amino acids, nor do they have the full availability even. So there are molecules in these plant proteins that directly inhibit our intestines ability to digest the protein. Anyone who's curious about this, look up molecules called tannins or trypsin inhibitors or fighting acids. These are found in all of the plant proteins and it is explicitly inhibiting our ability to break down those proteins from the plants. So it's a double whammy. We don't get the amino acid mix we want in the first place. And even second, we can't even get the ones we think we're getting because we can't digest the plant very well. Ben (42:38): So focus on the animal proteins, and the best way - egg white, and meat. Interestingly, the best proteins, and those that are the best proteins for humans, especially eggs, I should say, or dairy and eggs. Interestingly, those three best sources, dairy, eggs, and meat all come with fat. Fat - and so that's the third pillar. Don't fear fat, eat fat, enjoy fat, focus on natural or ancestral fats, namely fats from animals and fruits. The fruit fats are pretty much coconuts, olives, and avocados. And those are fats (the oils ) that you get just from pressing the flesh of the fruit; nothing to do with the seeds or pits. Nope. It's the flesh of the fruit that our early ancestors for thousands of years, all they needed to do was just step on them. And they would have started getting the oil from these, the flesh of these fruits. Ben (43:33): So they are ancestral. We are well suited to eat them. My point about fats and proteins coming together is relevant because there are studies to show that when you combine fat and protein together, you help the protein work better. So this one study in particular found that muscle growth was the highest when fat and protein were mixed and that was higher than protein alone. So there's something kind of doubly anabolic about that mix and fat helps the guts digest protein. I have had so many people tell me their stomach gets very upset when they eat just pure whey, like a, just a pure whey protein shake. Then I say to them, mix it with fat ,mix one to one fat to protein by mass, not by calorie, but by mass. So if you're getting 20 grams of whey, get 20 grams of fat with that whey. Ben (44:26): And when you eat fat , you have the release of bile acids from the gallbladder and bile facilitates those protein digestive enzymes. So you actually help the guts digest the protein better. So now you're getting more of the amino acids that you want. So those are the three pillars sort of refresh them or reiterate them; control carbohydrates, prioritize protein and don't fear fat. And then the fourth principle is don't be afraid to skip meals, basically intermittent fasting, or time restricted eating can be extremely effective.Then someone just needs to be smart, be deliberate about it. And I say that, because too often I see people who, almost look at intermittent fasting as a glorious form of bingeing and purging. And I don't mean actually like bulimia, but they will wait all day and then eat a big dinner. And they got so hungry. Ben (45:16): They overeat, they indulge in junk food because they let themselves just get too hungry. They didn't plan well. And then they feel such remorse. They feel so full and they sleep so poorly that they wake up the next day saying I'm going to fast all day. And then they do the same thing. They get to dinner. They they've gotten too hungry. They overeat. And I say this because I have seen that tendency in myself, where I end up using intermittent fasting as a crutch to indulge and behave in bad eating habits.But again, it can be extremely effective. I'm an enormous advocate of it, but a person needs to be smart about it. It's not just something I do. I don't believe there's a lot of value in just shrugging your shoulders and say, I'm going to fast and not have a plan for how you end the fast. In fact, I dare say how you end the fast is the most important part of the fast Tracey (46:09): There's so much in there, how fascinating. I would have asked you about the plant versus animal protein anyway, because I mean, I'm a huge advocate of animal proteins. I've looked into it so much. I've had so many amazing people on this show. You just peel it back. We're not talking about ideology here. We're talking about physiology and what our body is optimum on. And when we understand it from that perspective, it's all so much easier. Of course, it's all those other layers as we know around it. But at least for us to make decisions around what to fuel our body, it's much easier to do when we understand what is going to be optimum and what we're going to get the most out of when we do eat. Ben (46:53): Yes and true. In fact, I look at plant protein as a bit of a racket, and I say this with some informed experience. When a couple of my older brothers and I wanted to make a low carb meal replacement shake, we talked about (my brothers not being scientists), said we should look at P protein. That's because it's, it's just such a commonly used protein. And I would want a listener to know, they should be very cynical when they look at the branding on a meal replacement shake or a protein shake because P protein or any of the plant proteins are a fraction of the cost of animal proteins. They are so cheap, but you can see the incentive from a manufacturer or the company. They can, one, buy a protein that is very, very cheap, and then two, they can kind of virtue signal. Ben (47:43): They can brag about how they have plant proteins. These are not animal proteins. These are plant based proteins. Nowadays, people are so seduced by that idea, where, kind of pop culture is just waging war on our omnivorous nature as humans, our absolute undeniable evolutionary reliance on animal products. Now it's like, we're ashamed of that. We're doing everything we can to walk away from our absolute natural biology. And so they want to brag about how it's, plant-based. That's nothing to brag about. It is not healthy for the individual. It is not healthy for the planet, (that's a bit beside the point), but it also just creates a wonderful profit motive or incentive for the company. They can make a lot more money off of you , by selling junk. Tracey (48:34): Yes. People like Diana Rogers from Sustainable Dish, that fantastic book she released. I mean, there's so many great people doing great things to show sustainable farming is actually going to help the planet. So again, what we're up against is dogma and misinformation. And, you know, I think we have to just be cynical; exactly what you said. We've got to come across everything with a cynical perspective. But it can be very, very hard, can't it for the lay person to know what to believe and to know what's true. People are saying black and white. No, there'll be someone that will say plant, but no you're wrong. Plant based is optimal. Ben (49:11): I know. And I absolutely appreciate that. I have nothing but genuine compassion for people that are struggling with this. And indeed, even for people that they may know, the fact that humans are omnivores and yet they still have a conflict in them, this ethical dilemma of eating an animal. There's something sad about that, but it doesn't change the reality of our world, and this is cliche to say, but something must die for something to live. Even the plant that person is eating, that plant grew from the nutrients that came from dead things. And that dead thing once lived because of the nutrients that came from a plant. It is an undeniable reality of our world. And so for those of us that embrace this omnivorous nature of humans, of our species, I do think at the risk of sounding silly religious or philosophical; I do think there's something to be said for appreciating the life that is lost for ours to go on. Ben (50:13): I think there's something beautiful in that reality of acknowledging this was a death and it was necessary because I need to live. My family needs to live. We shouldn't be ashamed of that. We also, I think should acknowledge it. I do think there's something beautiful, acknowledging that I. I want my children to know that an animal dies. When we buy our meat from a local, (it's a professor actually in a different department here in my campus at my university, we buy all of our beef from him), I want them to know that this was a real animal and it died for us and that's okay. It's okay that that happened. But we can also feel a little sad, but grateful. Tracey (50:56): I absolutely love that. I think, that's fantastic. And it just puts another perspective on it. I think it's very easy to lose sight of that evolutionary omnivorous nature that we've come from, is to say, that we never have to hunt for food, we never have to be in a position where we're starving now. We have that luxury, most of us in the Western world. Of course not all the world has that luxury, but in the Western world, we can just go to the supermarket. There's no understanding of the processes behind that anymore. And I think that is important, that gratitude, and to understand where it's coming from in all this conversation. There's not enough of that around. So thank you for saying that. Ben (51:36): Yeah. Yeah. Sure, sure. That's it's the dad in me. I have to say it's part of my dad routine. Tracey (51:41): How many children have you got? Ben (51:43): I have three, three little babies, a13, 10, and seven. It's everything. I would just say as much as we're spending all our time right now, talking on science and that's appropriate. It's why I'm interesting. All of this, this career, it all serves one end, which is to provide for my wife and my children. So I am number one, husband, father far, far, number two is scientist professor. Tracey (52:06): Oh, I love it. Well, husband, father, I probably should let you get back to your family. Thank you so much for sharing. It's been such a pleasure. I have loved every second. I could ask you a million other questions, but I will let you go. And of course, please everybody buy Dr. Ben's book, because there is so much in there that can really empower you to make the choices that you need to make for your health. There is just is. Please buy it and thank you for coming on. Ben (52:38): Oh my pleasure. Thanks again for the invitation. I had a really, really great time.  

Nutritionist Diana Rodgers, RD, and New York Times Best Selling author, Robb Wolf, discuss their upcoming book and movie, “Sacred Cow: The Case for (Better) Meat." Interviewer: Karl Thidemann, Soil4Climate Inc. - Rodgers and Wolf hope to create a new dialogue examining our cultural bias against cattle, pointing out the importance of red meat to our food system and how well managed grazing animals are one of our best solutions to repair the damages of our industrial agricultural system. Ms. Rodgers runs a clinical nutrition practice and hosts the Sustainable Dish podcast. Mr. Wolf is co-owner of NorCal Strength & Conditioning and author of “The Paleo Solution – The Original Human Diet” and “Wired to Eat.”

I had an amazing conversation with Diana Rogers about her new book Sacred Cow: The Nutritional, Environmental, and Ethical Case for Better Meat and how better meat practices can be beneficial to the environment, are essential for our health and the ecosystem we share with the planet.Follow her work online at sustainabledish.com, sacredcow.info, and @sustainabledish on social media.Please rate and subscribe to the show! Thank you for listening!

Join me as I speak to Diana Rodgers of Sustainable Dish, Nutritionaist, farmer, advocate and now author and filmaker.  Diana's passion is how food feeds us whilst feeding the environment.  We discuss the place of livestock in a sustainable food system, the future of food and of course her book and the accompanying film , Sacred Cow

In this episode of Sustainable Dish, we chat with Brandon Howley of Happy Hollow Beef, a multi-generation ranch in East Texas outside of Dallas. The founder of Happy Hollow is Chuck Howley, an NFL star who is heralded by many as one of the greatest linebackers in Dallas Cowboys history. After serving in the military, Brandon returned to the family ranch.   One of Brandon’s first goals for the family ranch was to explore grass-finished beef and direct marketing to local consumers. Although transitioning to grass-finished beef may seem like a matter of simply changing what the cattle eat, it can be a far more complex process.

The regenerative agriculture movement advocates for new ways to raise crops and livestock but what about the supply chain? In this episode of Sustainable Dish, we chat with Sam Garwin, a regenerative food business consultant whose role in the food system reaches far beyond consulting.   Take a listen to learn more about Garwin’s personal journey from vegetarianism and software sales to her life now as a meat-eater and butcher, working with big food companies, and a little daydreaming about what our ideal regenerative food system would look like.

We start off today's show by visiting with renown author, blogger, dietician and film producer Diana Rogers (@SustainableDish) to discuss the issues with vegan ideology. What would really happen to a world where humans only consumed plants and chemically engineered fake meat substitutes? Diana is student of the earth and it's renewable resources. She often [...]

Sign Up To Receive Our FFA Stories Newsletter! Email address: SHOW NOTES KEY IDEAS:  Did you know that cattle are under attack?  If you are interested in raising livestock and farming, of course you did.  Animal rights and environmentalist groups are constantly trying to sway public opinion against the farming and consumption of cattle in any manner that they are capable of.  This includes claims of the overuse of water, poisoning of the food system, abuse of animals and global warming cause by methane emissions from cattle. For all of us trying to find our way in agriculture, we know intuitively what is going on.  But, what do we tell to our friends who are believing some of what they are hearing?  And, how do we refute the false science that is being put forward by these groups?  Who has time to do all of that research and engage in all of those debates when you already have to create off-farm income just to keep going? Luckily there is a farmer like Diana Rodgers.  Diana and her husband raise livestock, and she is devoting herself to debunking these anti-cattle myths with a fire that very few people possess.  Between her website sustainabledish.com, her upcoming book "Sacred Cow: The Case For Better Meat", the book by the same name and her podcast she is devoting countless hours of her life to putting a message out there to defend our bovine friends. In this episode Diana will explain the reason for the fight, what she is doing to combat this and how you can help. She will also talk about her own farming journey, and how that looks today as she is so busy creating content.  And, we will learn about how farming is taking place in one of the most expensive areas of the United States, the Boston Metro Area. CONTACT INFORMATION AND LINKS: Website: sustainabledish.com Where You Can Listen To Us: LISTEN TO US ON SATELLITE RADIO! WE ARE CONTRIBUTORS TO "FFA TODAY" ON RURAL RADIO SIRIUS XM CHANNEL 147! "FFA Today" airs on Rural Radio Sirius XM Channel 147 Saturdays at 7:30 AM Eastern and Sundays at 6:30 PM Eastern. Please let RURAL RADIO know that you like hearing us on their channel!  Here is how to contact them and leave feedback: Email: zacht@rfdtv.com Website:  RuralRadio147.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/RURALRADIO147

Diana Rodgers is a nutritionist and real food dietician. She’s the author of several books and is working on a new book and documentary film project, Sacred Cow. She hosts the Sustainable Dish podcast, and she lives and works on an organic farm in Massachusetts.

On this episode of the Sustainable Dish podcast I speak with Dr. Shawn Baker, an orthopedic surgeon, multi-sport world record holding Masters 50+ Athlete, and Zero-Carber meaning he eats a primarily carnivorous diet.

Diana Rodgers, is a “real food” Licensed Registered Dietitian Nutritionist living on a working organic farm west of Boston. She runs an active nutrition practice where she help people with weight, metabolic, and intestinal issues recover their health through diet and lifestyle. She’s also an author, host The Sustainable Dish Podcast, and the mom of two active kids. She speaks at universities and conferences internationally about nutrition and sustainability, social justice, animal welfare and food policy issues. She’s also working on a new book and film (Sacred Cow) exploring the important role of animals in our food system.

On this episode of the Sustainable Dish podcast I speak with Lierre Keith, author of the Vegetarian Myth, about her experience being a vegan for almost two decades and her eventual transition back into eating meat.

On this episode of the Sustainable Dish podcast I talk to Andrew Smith about his book A Critique of the Moral Defense of Vegetarianism.

On this epiosde of the Sustainable Dish Podcast I speak to Dr. Georgia Ede, a nutrtional psychiatrist. Dr. Ede studies the powerful scientific connection between food and brain health.

As EPIC fans, I'm sure many of you are familiar with this week's guest, Diana Rodgers! Diana scratches all of EPIC's itches, as she's a dietician, a regenerative ag farmer and she runs the Sustainable Dish podcast and website.  Her articles and podcasts are often forwarded between EPIC employees, and so we were really excited to bring her on and chat about the following... Why people should eat more red meat, and less chicken for their health AND for the environment Why she became a Registered Dietician, despite disagreeing with most of the curriculum The power of Regenerative Ag within a community How to not be the crazy ‘Paleo Parent' with your kids' food choices For this week's INSIDE EPIC segment, we chat with Sarah Creech, EPIC's Marketing Coordinator.  Sarah has one of the coolest jobs at EPIC, managing our brand partnerships, our ambassador program, and our field marketing efforts.  We chat about her sowing seeds of bacon lust in the yoga community, her journey to EPIC, and she drops some real inspiration with what her time here has taught her.