Positive Disintegration Podcast

In Episode 75, Chris and Emma were joined by Gordon Smith, a Licensed Clinical Mental Health Counselor, Coach, and Creative from Gifted and Growing in Asheville, NC. Together, they explore how community, creativity, and authenticity support the journey of positive disintegration.Gordon shares how his rediscovery of giftedness helped him make sense of his life and deepen his work with clients. The conversation dives into the challenges of unmasking in front of others—especially family—and how the safety of group spaces can empower people to become more fully themselves. Gordon introduces his unique group offerings and the powerful “Magnum Opus” exercise that facilitates self-discovery through poetry and flow state.This episode touches on key Dabrowskian themes, including the transformation of internalized shame, the shedding of masks, the role of community in personal growth, and how creative practices support authenticity. We reflect on how our disintegrations have unfolded and offer heartfelt encouragement for listeners on their journeys.Topics Include:* Gordon's journey back to giftedness and the theory of positive disintegration* The importance of self-knowing and depathologizing difference* Creating safe spaces for unmasking and self-expression* Using creativity and community to support growth* Reflections on grief, parenting, and nervous system healing* How discovering language for our experiences can be transformativeResources from this episode* Visit Gordon's website: Giftedandgrowing.org* Gordon Smith, LPC (Facebook)* More about Yunasa Connect with us* Positive Disintegration on Substack* Visit the Dabrowski Center website* Facebook* Instagram* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma* Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.* Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

Episode 74 includes Part 2 of our very first in-person podcast special. After years of collaborating across continents, Chris and Emma finally sat down together face-to-face in Madison, Wisconsin. In this spontaneous, laughter-filled continuation, we're joined by Bee Mayhew and Pam Ryan for a warm and off-the-cuff conversation about friendship, imagination, healing, and what it really means to be ourselves.In this episode:* The power of community and co-regulation for people who've long felt “too much”* What happens when deep thinkers stop masking and start mirroring each other* A kitchen full of neurodivergent magic and mirroring* Finding safety, resonance, and spiritual alignment in community* From shared values to shaping new realities—how our friendships have become frameworksWe reflect on how much we've grown, how much we've healed, and how profoundly we've changed by allowing ourselves to show up as our true selves, together.Big news: Chris and Bee have launched a brand new podcast together—✨ cosmic cheer squad ✨ Visit cosmic cheer squad on SubstackFollow @cosmiccheersquad on InstagramIt's a show blending resistance, storytelling, transformation, and soul-friend energy.Links from this episodeBee's Substack:* Pragmagination Pam's groups on Facebook:* Rogue Valley Brainery & Ludoteca* Voodoodleydooers Connect with us* Positive Disintegration on Substack* Visit the Dabrowski Center website* Facebook* Instagram* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma* Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.* Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

Welcome to a very special episode of Positive Disintegration! For the first time ever, Chris and Emma sat down together in person to record—not virtually, not over Zoom or SquadCast, but face to face in the heart of Madison, Wisconsin. In this warm and unscripted special, we reflect on our friendship, the podcast's evolution, and the joy (and awkwardness!) of finally being in the same room after three years of collaboration.In this episode:* Behind-the-scenes stories from Emma's trip to the U.S.* Meeting Michael Piechowski and getting hosted with tea and cookies* Visiting the Henry Vilas Zoo, hanging out with James, Jason, and Jack—and, of course, the infamous hound dog, Champ* Reflections on growth, healing, and laying new paths* Creating the Positive Disintegration Network and dreaming forward into 2025* How their work and friendship have evolved over years of podcasting together* Early glimpses of new projects: cosmic cheer squad and PDA: Resistance and Resilience✨ This is part one of a two-part special to our listeners—an intimate conversation full of laughter, reflection, and visioning for what's next.Links from this episodeTragic GiftAdults with OverexcitabilitiesUpcoming podcasts Chris mentioned:The cosmic cheer squad podcast is coming soon with Bee Mayhew from pragmaginationPDA: Resistance & Resilience is coming later this spring with Marni Kammersell from Wandering BrightlyConnect with us* Positive Disintegration on Substack* Visit the Dabrowski Center website* Facebook* Instagram* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma* Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.* Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 72, Chris and Emma talked with Dr. Lil Jedynak—a memoir writing coach, multi-potential creative, and gifted adult—who helps people tell their life stories through the lens of autoethnography.Lil shares her journey of self-discovery, from uncovering her giftedness at 60 to finding new frameworks for understanding her life, such as Dąbrowski's Theory of Positive Disintegration. We explore how writing became a tool for her healing, integration, and personal growth and how she now guides others on their own storytelling paths.We dive into:* How early experiences of invisibility, perfectionism, and cultural expectations shaped Lil's understanding of her giftedness.* The role of autoethnography in making sense of one's life story and deepening self-awareness.* The interplay between tall poppy syndrome, perfectionism, and the fear of failure.* The power of embracing past struggles as part of personal development.* How creativity, intuition, and personal reflection help gifted individuals integrate their complex identities.* Alternative ways to process and express self-discovery beyond writing.This conversation is full of insight into the lived experience of positive disintegration and how we can turn our personal narratives into sources of strength. Whether you love to write or prefer other forms of self-expression, there are many ways to make meaning of your story. Join us for an inspiring discussion that celebrates authenticity, creativity, and the art of storytelling.Resources from this episode* Website: drlilconsults.com* Substack: Lil's Substack* Lil's session from DC2024 on YouTube: Fame and FragilityJoin us at the 2025 International Symposium on Autoethnography and NarrativePeople mentioned:Lotte van Lith — A Lot of Complexity & Episode 9 Jennifer Harvey Sallin — InterGifted & Episode 23Sheldon Gay — I Must Be BUG'N Pod & Episode 63Books mentioned:* Living with Intensity – Susan Daniels & Michael M. Piechowski* Personality Shaping Through Positive Disintegration – Kazimierz Dabrowski* Bright Adults: Uniqueness & Belonging Across the Lifespan – Ellen Fiedler* Writing as a Way of Healing – Louise DeSalvoConnect with us* Positive Disintegration on Substack* Visit the Dabrowski Center website* Facebook* Instagram* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma* Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.* Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

*Content Warning: This episode contains a discussion about suicide, which may be distressing to some listeners. Click here for resources.In episode 71, Chris and Emma continue the conversation with Dr. Stacey Freedenthal, a suicidologist, therapist, author, and professor at the University of Denver. In this second installment, we delve deeper into the complexities of suicidality, exploring chronic suicidal thoughts and the stigma surrounding suicide. We talk more about what to say and what not to say to someone who is suicidal and how to support those in emotional pain. Stacey shares valuable insights and practical resources for those navigating these challenging experiences. Chris and Emma reflect on their personal journeys and the power of connection in moments of despair. This candid discussion provides essential perspectives for anyone seeking to better understand suicide, reduce stigma, and foster compassion.Resources from this EpisodeSpeaking of SuicideStaceyFreedenthal.comHelping the Suicidal Person: Tips and Techniques for Professionals (book for professionals)Loving Someone with Suicidal Thoughts: What Family, Friends, and Partners Can Say and Do (book for laypeople)Frank King, A Matter of Laugh or Death (YouTube)r/SuicideWatch (Reddit)ChronicSuicideSupport.comAlternatives to SuicideWarmLineWildflower AllianceLive Through ThisChris's story on Live Through This (Interview date: February 26, 2015, Denver, CO)Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

*Content Warning: This episode contains a discussion about suicide, which may be distressing to some listeners. Click here for resources. In episode 70, Chris and Emma talk with Dr. Stacey Freedenthal, a suicidologist, therapist, author, and professor at the University of Denver. We discuss the deeply important but often stigmatized topic of suicide. This is part one of a two-part series that explores the intersection of suicide and Dabrowski's theory of positive disintegration, offering listeners tools for empathy and connection in the face of despair.Stacey shares her personal journey with suicidality, the experiences that led her to dedicate her career to this work, and the insights she's gained through her research, teaching, and practice.Together, we explore the stigma surrounding suicidal thoughts, the ways people can hide their pain, and how well-intentioned responses often fall short. Stacey emphasizes the need for what she calls “brave listening”—creating a safe space for honest conversations without judgment or quick fixes. Chris and Emma also reflect on their own experiences and share perspectives on navigating these tough but crucial discussions.Resources from this episodeSpeaking of Suicide StaceyFreedenthal.com Helping the Suicidal Person: Tips and Techniques for Professionals (book for professionals)Loving Someone with Suicidal Thoughts: What Family, Friends, and Partners Can Say and Do (book for laypeople)A Suicide Therapist's Secret Past (NY Times article mentioned, behind paywall. Click for PDF)Stacey mentioned the following image from her book's cover.We mentioned Episode 8: Surviving DisintegrationThomas Joiner's Interpersonal Theory of Suicide (Wikipedia)Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 69, Chris and Emma talked with Lian Brook-Tyler, shamanic healer, teacher of unity, podcaster, and co-founder of the Be Mythical podcast. In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, we dive into the intersections of mysticism, neurodivergence, spirituality, transformation, and awakenings—connecting these profound experiences to Dabrowski's theory of positive disintegration. We explore:* How neurodivergence can shape mystical and spiritual experiences.* The connection between shamanic practices, inner work, and positive disintegration.* The importance of doing the work of inner transformation and embracing the unknown.* The parallels between psychological and spiritual frameworks in understanding human development.Lian's mythical journey truly began when she was ruptured open to Spirit with the sudden death of her father—which led to her mysteriously recovering from 15 years of chronic pain, panic attacks and anxiety. That inexplicable transformation inspired her to leave a leadership role in the corporate world to immerse herself in discovering what creates pain and struggle, and conversely, how to create a life overflowing with love, magic, beauty and truthLian also shares how her work at Be Mythical, together with co-founder Jonathan Wilkinson, supports old souls and visionaries on initiatory journeys of self-discovery, using myth and ancient wisdom to find purpose and truth. Their work, Be Mythical, is an alchemy of ancient ways for modern days. It weaves together eclectic wisdom teachings and natural traditions such as rewilding, magic and animist spirituality, embodiment, and self-illumination into a soul-led, heart-centred, sovereign path of reclaiming your wildness, actualising your deepest gifts, to live fully and die complete.Here is the Tree of Life image Lian discussed during the episodeLinks from this episodeBe Mythical websiteBe Mythical podcastBe Mythical episodes we mentioned:* “Over-excitability”: A more truthful and constructive perspective on neurodivergence? (episode with Chris)* How to know if you're really "Doing The Work"? Sara J. Sanderson interviews Lian Brook-Tyler Positive Disintegration Episode 29: The Disintegrating DuckCourses: https://www.bemythical.com/godeeperFree fb group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1694264587546957Fb page: https://www.facebook.com/bemythicalYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeMythicalInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/be.mythical/Moonly Newsletter: https://www.bemythical.com/moonlyConnect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!Tuesday, December 10, 2024, is Colorado Gives Day. Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, and help support the Dabrowski Congress, other events, and our archive. This year, a generous anonymous donor has pledged to match gifts up to $2,500 USD. Thank you for supporting our work! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 68, Chris and Emma debriefed about Chris's session from NAGC 2023 titled “Overexcitabilities and Dąbrowski's Theory: Correcting the Course in Gifted Education.” We covered the five common myths or misunderstandings about the theory of positive disintegration that were addressed in the presentation. We've been sitting on this episode because we didn't have time to get it out right after last year's conference. Michael's episode was the priority following NAGC 2023 since his 90th birthday was approaching. We were also concerned that we had shared so many posts about NAGC in the lead-up to the conference that people might be burned out on the topic—but now, we are ready to share!Highlights00:02:13 Debriefing about the conference00:03:50 Previous sessions from Chris at NAGC00:07:22 Positive impact of the 2022 OE panel session00:10:02 Myth 1: There is little or no empirical evidence for TPD00:14:54 Myth 2: TPD is a theory of giftedness00:24:27 Myth 3: Overexcitability can only be understood within the context of positive disintegration00:28:43 We do still need the theory as a non-pathologizing framework00:35:27 Myth 4: Overexcitability and openness to experience are the same thing, and the five-factor model can replace TPD00:39:45 Myth 5: Overexcitability can be differentiated from ADHD and autism00:44:50 There's no clear line of demarcation for types of neurodivergence and OE. 00:48:08 Best practices for working with overexcitability00:52:58 Main takeaways from the session00:56:49 We care a lotWe hope you'll enjoy this episode! We're releasing it ahead of NAGC 2024 in Seattle. Chris submitted no proposals this year and looks forward to attending NAGC without presenting for once. They feel it's worth repeating this material from last year instead. Links from this episodeClick here for the download Chris shared at NAGC with slides and relevant papers.View the post NAGC 2023: Overexcitabilities and Dąbrowski's Theory from November 2023.The song “We Care a Lot” by Faith No More (1985), for those who are unfamiliar. It was mentioned during this exchange at the end of the episode.Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 67, Chris and Emma were joined by Caitlin Hughes from the Divergent Dialogues podcast. Caitlin is an accredited mental health social worker and founder of Cathartic Collaborations, a neurodivergent-affirming private practice based in Brisbane, Australia.We dive deep into the complexities of multi-exceptional neurodivergent identities, the journey of self-discovery, and the importance of embracing our differences. We discussed the theory of positive disintegration as a liberating framework that offers an alternative to the pathology paradigm. Here are some highlights from our conversation:* The Power of Self-Understanding: Caitlin shares their personal journey of late diagnosis as an AuDHD PDAer, highlighting the profound impact this had on their self-perception. We talked about the importance of understanding ourselves and how this knowledge can lead to a transformative process of healing and self-acceptance. Our identities are multifaceted, and embracing our unique neurotypes can empower us to live authentically.* Depathologizing Difference: One of the core themes of our conversation is the need to depathologize neurodivergent experiences. Caitlin discusses how societal narratives often frame neurodivergent traits as deficits rather than strengths. By embracing neurodivergent identities and advocating for a more inclusive understanding, we can create spaces where individuals feel seen and validated. * The Role of Sensual Giftedness: Caitlin introduces the concept of sensual giftedness and how it plays a significant role in their practice. They explain how processing emotions and experiences through sensory modalities can lead to deeper healing. This perspective is particularly enlightening for those of us who may have felt misunderstood or marginalized due to our sensory sensitivities. Caitlin's insights remind us that our unique ways of experiencing the world can be powerful tools for growth and self-discovery.(Please note that at 23:44, Caitlin said granite when they meant to say “graphite” when referring to diamonds and granite).Caitlin uses their intersectional lived experience to therapeutically support neurocomplex & neuroqueer folks. They utilize somatic therapeutic modalities to support clients to heal systemic trauma and embrace their unique neurotype, strengths, and differences, empowering them to build a self-defined life of meaning and purpose. Caitlin has a Facebook group called "Neurodivergent Affirming Social Workers Collective" where they want to inspire and support other Social Workers to grow in their neurodivergent affirming practice. Caitlin is co-host of "Divergent Dialogues" a neurodivergent affirming podcast and blog on Substack which explores a blend of current research, lived and professional experience. Caitlin is currently completing a PhD with a strong interest in qualitative research in the area of autistic mental health.Links from this EpisodeCathartic CollaborationsDivergent Dialogues on SubstackEpisode 25: Multi-exceptionality, Overexcitabilities and Positive Disintegration with Chris and EmmaSocial media: @cathartic.collaborations (on Facebook and Instagram)Neurodivergent Affirming Social Workers Collective on Facebook2024 Dabrowski Congress videos (available for $15 USD)Head Office, Making Sense of My Mind (Emma's video)Mellow Out by Michael M. Piechowski is the book Chris recommended about overexcitabilities and personal growthBring Me the Horizon — Mantra (song on YouTube)InterGifted Hearing Voices NetworkExcerpt from Fragments from the Diary of a Madman by CieninMr. Sparkle (fun behind-the-scenes fact: this was in reference to a Mr Sparkle t-shirt Emma was wearing during recording!)Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 66, Chris and Emma celebrated the podcast's third birthday! We reflect on our highlights, challenges, and lessons over the last year.One of the most rewarding aspects of our podcast journey has been the incredible community we've built around the theory of positive disintegration. The relationships we've formed—both with each other and with our listeners—have been instrumental in our development. We've witnessed the transformation of individuals within our community, and it's a reminder of how vital connection is in our personal and professional lives.We touch on letting go of perfectionism. We both know that growth is an ongoing process, and it's okay not to have everything figured out. We share our experiences navigating challenges and how they've pushed us to rethink our values and boundaries. This journey of self-discovery is not linear, and embracing the messiness of life as we continue to evolve is essential.Our conversation also delves into the complexities of values and how they can clash, especially in today's polarized world. We explore how different perspectives can lead to misunderstandings and the importance of recognizing that our values may manifest differently in our actions. This insight fosters empathy and understanding in personal relationships and broader societal contexts.Links from this episodeOur previous birthday episodes from year 1 (Ep. 20, Values) and year 2 (Ep. 46). Episode 34, Mental health Awareness was mentionedEmma's post Visualisation, Sel-Therapy, and the Shadow Beast Chris's post Making Friends and Building CommunitySome of the highlights mentioned from our last year* Episode 47, Harry Potter and the Path of Disintegration with Katy McDaniel and Emily Strand* Episode 48, Piechowski's Insights on Positive Disintegration with Michael M. Piechowski* Episode 50, Giftedness and Personality with Deborah Ruf* Episode 52: Voice as a Mirror of Inner States with Laura Stavinoha* Episode 54: Navigating the Tides of Change, from Gift-a-Palooza 2024* Episode 55: Gifted Intersections and Transformation with Kaitlin Smith* Episode 56: Autoethnography for Personal Growth* Episode 57: Nurturing Giftedness and Overexcitabilities in the Classroom with Summer Cowick* Episode 58: Building Better Social Worlds with Theory with Sergej van Middendorp and Abbie VanMeter* Episode 60: Dabrowski 101, An Introduction to the Theory of Positive Disintegration* Episode 61: The Power of Professional Identity with Sarabeth Berk Bickerton* Episode 62: Discovering Your Inner Compass, our DC2024 workshop* Episode 63 Diverse Voices and Gifted Belonging with Sheldon GayVideos from the 2024 Dabrowski Congress are available for $15 here. Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 65, Chris and Emma continue their two-part conversation with Dr. Linda Silverman. Linda shares her insights on asynchronous development, emphasizing the importance of understanding IQ scores as minimal estimates and not definitive indicators of a person's potential. Linda also reflects on her involvement with the Dabrowski Congress and the evolution of the giftedness community. She recounts her role in developing the concept of asynchronous development with the Columbus Group and creating Advanced Development Journal, a unique publication dedicated to adult giftedness. Chris and Emma express their gratitude for Linda's decades of work and share how her contributions continue to inspire new generations to explore the intersections of giftedness, neurodivergence, and positive disintegration. This episode explores the challenges and triumphs of advocating for a deeper understanding of giftedness and positive disintegration.Links from this episodeGifted Development Center websiteAdvanced Development JournalInstitute for the Study of Advanced Development (ISAD)For a deeper dive into asynchronous development, we suggest the book Off the Charts by Neville, Piechowski, & Tolan (Eds.)Download “Giftedness: The View from Within” by Martha J. Morelock (1992), the first published article about asynchronous development. It was published in the journal Linda mentioned, Understanding Our Gifted. Episodes with people we mentioned:* Episode 5, Researching Overexcitability, with Frank Falk* Episode 19, The Challenge of Levels, with Stephanie Tolan* Episode 48, Piechowski's Insights on Positive Disintegration with Michael M. PiechowskiChris's paper from ADJ: The Primary Importance of the Inner Experience of GiftednessMichael Piechowski's Table of Forms and Manifestations of OverexcitabilityGiftedness as Neurodivergence, Not Functioning Label by Marni Kammersell and Katy Higgins Lee. The link is a YouTube video of their presentation from the 2024 Dabrowski Congress. Click here to purchase the 2024 Dabrowski Congress recordings for full access. For the remainder of 2024, the purchase price has been reduced to $15 USD. Thank you to everyone who has supported this event.Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 64, Chris and Emma talked with Dr. Linda Silverman, a licensed clinical and counseling psychologist in Westminster, Colorado. Linda founded and directs the Institute for the Study of Advanced Development (ISAD) and its subsidiary, Gifted Development Center. This episode is Part 1 of a two-part series with Dr. Silverman. The first conversation explores Linda's discovery of Dabrowski's theory in 1979 and her role in establishing the Dabrowski Study Group with Dr. Frank Falk at the University of Denver. Listeners will also gain insights into the complexities of giftedness, including the controversial issue of IQ testing. Linda reflects on how societal shifts have shaped gifted education and the changes she has observed during her career. She offers a candid critique of the limitations of the field, highlighting the challenges of adequately identifying and supporting the unique needs of highly gifted individuals. Her work has had a profound impact on individuals as well as our broader understanding of giftedness. This discussion included many articles and resources, which we've shared below. Part 2 will be released soon!Links from this episodeGifted Development Center websiteAdvanced Development JournalInstitute for the Study of Advanced Development (ISAD)We've tried to include the following links in the order they were mentioned.Michael Piechowski's chapter on Developmental Potential from New Voices in Counseling the Gifted. The other chapter mentioned was Giftedness as Multilevel Potential by Kay Ogburn-Colangelo. The book, edited by Nicholas Colangelo and Ronald T. Zaffrann, can still be found online. Click here to read Linda's review for Contemporary Psychology called “Gifts for The Gifted.” The Theory of Positive Disintegration and its Implications for Giftedness by Silverman & Ellsworth, from the 1980 conference Linda discussed attending. Interesting Quotes, Vol. 7 featured work by Marlene RankelEpisodes with folks mentioned in this episode:* Episode 5, Researching Overexcitability, with Frank Falk* Episode 35, Dąbrowski's Theory in Practice with Patty Gatto-Walden* Episode 48, Piechowski's Insights on Positive Disintegration with Michael M. PiechowskiChris discussed meeting Linda at the 2015 SENG Conference. SENG stands for Supporting the Emotional Needs of the Gifted. Making Friends and Building Community is the post that Chris mentioned.Two papers by Linda were mentioned: * The Two-Edged Sword of Compensation (Gifted Education International)* My Love Affair with Dabrowski's Theory (Roeper Review)Nancy Miller's MACS coding system and dissertation were mentioned. You can also read about MACS in this paper, which Nancy co-authored with Linda in Roeper Review. Sam Ammirato's dissertationIn a Different Voice by Carol GilliganLinda mentioned her book Counseling the Gifted & Talented How the Gifted Cope With Their Emotions by Annemarie RoeperLinda talked about chapters by Michael Piechowski on emotional giftedness. His chapter from 1997 was the focus of Interesting Quotes, Vol. 2. She also pointed out that his book Mellow Out is an excellent source for learning about emotional and spiritual giftedness. “When Does Water Become Steam?” was presented by Linda in 2018 at the Triple Nine Society's annual ggg999 meeting.Ann Klein's book A Forgotten Voice is a biography of Leta S. Hollingworth.“A Feminine Perspective on Giftedness” is the chapter Linda said is currently being updated. Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 63, Chris and Emma talked with Sheldon Gay, a serial entrepreneur with a background in engineering and a tech-focused MBA. As a late-identified gifted and, therefore, neurodivergent Black man, Sheldon uses his experiences to help others embrace their unique identities and foster community through his podcast, I Must Be BUG'N.In this episode, we dive into the complexities of giftedness, the importance of diverse voices in the gifted community, and the journey of self-discovery. Here are three key takeaways from our conversation:The Power of Mirroring: Sheldon emphasizes the critical need for representation and mirroring within the gifted community, especially for marginalized populations. Many gifted individuals often feel isolated, believing they are the only ones experiencing their unique challenges. By elevating diverse voices, we can create a more inclusive environment where everyone feels seen and understood. This mirroring is essential for fostering authentic connections and validating our experiences.Self-Reflection as a Tool for Growth: Throughout our conversation, we explore the importance of self-awareness and self-reflection in navigating the complexities of giftedness. Sheldon shares his journey of discovering the theory of positive disintegration and how it opened the floodgates to understanding himself better. This process of introspection is not just about identifying where we stand but also about recognizing the areas where we can grow. It's a reminder that our paths are not linear, and embracing the messiness of self-discovery is part of the journey.Challenging Traditional Definitions of Giftedness: Part of our conversation touches on the traditional definitions of giftedness, which often focus on IQ and academic performance. Sheldon challenges this by suggesting giftedness is a multifaceted experience that encompasses emotional depth, creativity, and unique perspectives. By broadening our understanding of what it means to be gifted, we can create a more inclusive understanding that celebrates diverse talents and abilities.We also discuss levels of development, self-awareness, and multidimensionality. Doing inner work and exploring our depths. Sheldon introduces the concept of "shadow thoughts," which are the unspoken beliefs and internal narratives that shape our self-perception. These thoughts often originate from external influences, such as societal expectations or familial messages, and can hinder authentic self-expression. By confronting and understanding these shadow thoughts, individuals can begin to dismantle the barriers that prevent them from fully embracing their giftedness.This is a rich conversation, and we invite you to join us. We also suggest you follow Sheldon's podcast, which we've linked to below. Links from this episodeSheldon's podcast I Must Be BUG'NWe mentioned the episode It Must Be Them, Not Me, Part 1 (with Visuals)Sheldon's websiteOur Wild MindsEpisode 55 with Kaitlin SmithEpisode 48 with Michael PiechowskiThe Origins paper Chris mentioned writing with Frank FalkConnect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 62, Chris and Emma delivered the audio from the DC2024 workshop they previewed in episode 58. The Dabrowski Congress was a special experience, and this workshop was no exception. So, we'd like to say a big thank you to the people who shared their thoughts and questions with us during the session because they really helped make it amazing. We hope you'll enjoy our workshop, too, and participate with us as you listen!Values are at the heart of the theory of positive disintegration. They play a crucial role in personal growth and understanding your identity, serving as an inner compass to guide behavior and decision-making. We emphasize the significance of understanding personal values, their evolution, and their impact on our behavior.Values are the principles or standards that inform our behavior, driven by what we perceive as important in life. They are not static—they shift and evolve as we grow and encounter new experiences and challenges. This dynamic nature is essential for personal development, as it allows us to reassess and redefine what is meaningful to us over time. Just as a compass provides direction, values help us navigate our lives, particularly during times of disintegration or uncertainty. Establishing and understanding your hierarchy of values is critical for the processes of autopsychotherapy and self-education. The journey toward authenticity is facilitated by recognizing and aligning with our core values. The session aims to help participants discover their core drivers, define their values, and embark on a journey toward authenticity, so there are reflection exercises and questions through the workshop.A quote we shared from an interview Dr. Dabrowski gave in 1979, which was published as “The Heroism of Sensitivity” in 1994:“Creating new values is a fundamental part of development. When we grow, we start to have a different view of reality and that leads us to reorder our value system. We create values by our self-observation, by our thinking, and by putting our ideals into practice. Discovering in ourselves higher levels of development, higher tendencies, and sensitivities, we simultaneously create them.” Listeners are encouraged to participate actively by taking notes and reflecting on prompting questions throughout the workshop. There will be places during the episode for you to pause and reflect on the questions being asked. Workshop slides are available for further reference by clicking the button below or from the resource list. Links from this episodeClick here to download the PDF of our slidesWatch the video of our session on YouTubeVisit the 2024 Dabrowski Congress pagePurchase DC2024 recordingsConnect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 61, Chris and Emma were joined by Dr. Sarabeth Berk Bickerton, a professional identity researcher and the leading expert on hybrid professional identity. Sarabeth is based in Boulder, Colorado, and author of More Than My Title: The Power of Hybrid Professionals in a Workplace of Experts and Generalists. Understanding and articulating your professional identity is essential for achieving fulfillment and success in the workplace. Sarabeth emphasized the significance of understanding and articulating your professional identity beyond job titles. She stressed the importance of recognizing ourselves in our work, independent of the tasks we perform. We delved into Sarabeth's concept of hybrid professional identity, where individuals bring together diverse skills and experiences to create something new. She shared how being a hybrid professional can lead to disruption and innovation in the workplace, challenging traditional norms and boundaries. We learned about the need to explore the intersection of multiple professional identities to truly define and showcase your unique value in the workplace.Sarabeth's work helps people articulate their unique values and contributions in the workplace. Through exercises and frameworks, she assists individuals in exploring their skills, experiences, and preferences to create a comprehensive understanding of their professional identities. This process enables individuals to enhance self-awareness, communicate strengths effectively, and navigate career transitions or advancements with confidence and clarity.Sarabeth shared that professionals with hybrid identities often face challenges in traditional work environments where they are expected to fit into specific roles. This can result in feeling misunderstood, undervalued, or limited in expressing their full potential. We discussed the importance of career belonging, where individuals seek to align their values, skills, and aspirations with their work environment. We learned the importance of understanding where you fit and belong in your career journey, whether to yourself, others, or a larger purpose.Links from this episodeSarabeth's website: More Than My Title Her book More Than My Title on AmazonFind Sarabeth on:LinkedInInstagramFacebookWe mentioned Gifted Unleashed Episode 33, featuring Nadja Cereghetti and guest Chris Wells.Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!Support our work by becoming a Founding Member, and join the upcoming virtual Q&A with Chris on August 14, 2024, at 4 pm MDT. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 60, Chris and Emma introduced the theory of positive disintegration in a nutshell. We did our best to make it as approachable as possible and kept jargon to a minimum. Our goal was not to deliver a scholarly presentation of the theory but one for the layperson going through positive disintegration. This introduction was created especially for the 2024 Dabrowski Congress for attendees who want to learn more about the theory behind the conference. Our hope is that it will serve for years to come as a primer for positive disintegration. As Emma often says, TPD is not only a theory but an experience, and those going through it appreciate a mirror that makes sense of their struggles. The topics we covered:- Background of Dr. Kazimierz Dabrowski- Nervousness, Psychological Tension and Big Emotions- The Five Types of Overexcitabilities- Types of Development, Developmental Potential and Multilevelness, and Multilevelness in Personality Growth- Hierarchy of Values, the Third Factor of Development (and Nature, Nurture, and the Third Factor)- Unilevel vs. Multilevel Disintegration- Positive Maladjustment, Spontaneous Multilevel Disintegration, Pain, and Self-Reflection- Challenges in Discovering and Acting on Values, and Organized Multilevel Disintegration- Transforming Overexcitabilities into Tools for Growth- Lifelong Journey of Personal Growth, and Personality as an Achievement- Resources, DC2024, and Final Thoughts Register for DC2024 at https://dabrowskicenter.org/registerIf you want to join one of Chris's courses this year, click here to register your interest and receive more information. We created Dabrowski 101 as a video and podcast episode. You can watch the video on YouTube.Quotes “The prefix over attached to ‘excitability' serves to indicate that the reactions of excitation are over and above average in intensity, duration, and frequency” (Dabrowski, 1996, p. 7, Multilevelness of Emotional and Instinctive Functions). "Making multilevelness the central concept in the approach to development means that we have to apply it to every phenomenon under scrutiny. It means that we are using a new key, or paradigm, with which to approach human behavior and its development. It now becomes less meaningful to consider, for instance, aggression, inferiority, empathy, or sexual behavior as unitary phenomena, but it becomes more meaningful to examine different levels of these behaviors." (Dabrowski, 1996, p. 10)“Discovering in ourselves higher levels of development, higher tendencies, and sensitivities, we simultaneously create them.” Dabrowski, 1994, "The Heroism of Sensitivity," an interview in Advanced Development Journal. "Do not run from yourself but conquer yourself!" P. Cienin, 1972, p. 40, (Existential Thoughts and Aphorisms). “Movement from “what is” to “what ought to be” opens a channel for resolution and direction of developmental tensions. When this channel is not open, as in unilevel disintegration, the tensions lead to severe psychosomatic illness, psychosis, or suicide.” Dabrowski, 1977, p. 43, (Theory of Levels of Emotional Development, Vol. 1) “Crises are periods of increased insight into oneself, creativity, and personality development” Dabrowski, 1964, p. 18, (Positive Disintegration) More resources* Download a PDF with the list and short definitions of dynamisms at https://dabrowskicenter.org/1977 * For more on "nervousness" and the history of overexcitability: https://dabrowskicenter.org/origins * The book we mentioned on the slide with five types of OE was "Mellow Out," They Say. If I Only Could" by Michael M. Piechowski.* Download Table 1 from Mellow Out, Forms and Expressions of Overexcitability* The following papers from Michael M. Piechowski include case studies of moral exemplars that shed more light on the higher-level dynamisms:* Piechowski (1990): Inner Growth and Transformation in the Life of Eleanor Roosevelt * Piechowski (1992): Etty Hillesum: “The Thinking Heart of the Barracks”* Piechowski (2009): Peace Pilgrim, Exemplar of Level V* Podcast episodes we mentioned:* Episode 2: Overexcitabilities and Pseudoscience* Episode 8: Surviving Disintegration* Episode 33: A Personal Journey of Self-Discovery with David SweeneyConnect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 59, Chris and Emma were joined by Dr. Sergej van Middendorp and Abbie VanMeter of the CMM Institute for Personal and Social Evolution. We discussed the CMM (Coordinated Management of Meaning) theory and its intersection with the theory of positive disintegration. Sergej helps generate healthy systems with action research-based practice in improvisation, design, and communication. In the Netherlands, he facilitates a collaborative support network of caregivers and IT providers in their development of an integral digital health system. He is on the CMM Institute's Board of Stewards. Abbie is the host of the Stories Lived. Stories Told. podcast. In partnership with the CMM Institute for Personal and Social Evolution, she is involved in a number of projects that work to make the tools, language, and knowledge offered by the communication theory Coordinated Management of Meaning (CMM) more accessible. CMM theory posits that persons in conversation (when we communicate with each other) co-create their social realities, and are simultaneously shaped by the worlds they construct. Its focus is on storytelling and meaning-making, and the goal of the CMM Institute is to create better social worlds, by helping people communicate in healthier (and more conscious) ways. Meaning is socially constructed—we all have a part in its creation. We discussed how one intersection between positive disintegration and CMM theory is how positive communication and storytelling can include conscious choice, awareness, and relational dynamics in shaping personal growth and social interactions. By being mindful of the stories we tell and the meaning we create through communication, we can contribute to building better social worlds and fostering genuine connections with others.Both CMM theory and the theory of positive disintegration provide language to name and understand our experiences. These frameworks are empowering because they serve as toolkits that can help us in our meaning-making efforts. Abbie and Sergej will be presenting virtually at the 2024 Dabrowski Congress in the session “Improvising Personal and Social Evolution with the Theory of Positive Disintegration (TPD) and the Coordinated Management of Meaning (CMM).” Resources from this EpisodeCMM Institute websiteStories Lived. Stories Told. Podcast“Plan for Emergence” episode with Abbie and SergejChris and Emma were on Episode 44 and Episode 45 on Substack CosmoKidzCosmoTeenz Fellows on InstagramWatch Sergej and Abbie's preview video for DC2024. Click here to register for the 2024 Dabrowski CongressWe want to thank the CMM Institute for becoming a DC2024 sponsor! Positive Disintegration Podcast, Ep. 22 on Nonviolent CommunicationConnect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 58, Chris and Emma shared a preview of the workshop they'll deliver together at the 2024 Dabrowski Congress on July 11, 2024. We started with an overview of the Congress schedule, highlighting the mix of virtual and in-person sessions designed to cater to a diverse audience. Our workshop, which is virtual only, aims to assist participants in aligning their actions with their values—a crucial step toward achieving authenticity.We discussed the importance of understanding and defining personal values and how these guide our behaviors and decisions. Drawing on our experiences and insights, we emphasized the role of values in navigating periods of disintegration and personal growth. We also touched on the structure of our workshop, which will include practical exercises to help attendees articulate their values and develop a personal action plan to embody these values in their daily lives. The workshop is designed to be interactive, allowing for personal reflection and group discussion.Finally, we encouraged our listeners to register for the Congress and join us in this transformative workshop! We concluded by expressing our excitement about the opportunity to share tools and strategies that have significantly impacted our own journeys toward authenticity.Join us at the Dabrowski Congress to explore how you can walk your talk and be true to your values. Visit the official DC2024 pageRegister for the 2024 Dabrowski Congress on EventbriteConnect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 57, Chris and Emma talked with Summer Cowick, an educator with over 15 years of classroom experience specializing in gifted education in Kansas City. Through her coaching organization, Brilliant And Then Some, Summer strives to empower gifted and talented children and their families, guiding them through individual circumstances to unlock their full potential and achieve lasting happiness. For educators and parents, this episode offers practical insights and strategies for supporting overexcitable and gifted students. This is the first time we explicitly address the issue of overexcitability in the classroom. We discussed the impact of Dabrowski's theory in educational settings, and how understanding overexcitabilities can transform teaching and learning experiences.Our discussion covered a wide range of topics, from applying Dabrowski's theory in the classroom to understanding giftedness beyond the stereotypical traits and the crucial role authenticity plays in education. Summer shared some challenges and strategies for recognizing and nurturing giftedness in students from diverse racial and socio-economic backgrounds. We talk about the crucial role of authenticity for both students and teachers, including how it influences educational outcomes and personal development.We all shared personal anecdotes about giftedness and overexcitabilities at school. We hope this conversation will help illuminate the complexities of navigating education, including the challenges of sensory overloads, and maintaining personal autonomy and authenticity in overwhelming environments. Summer's experiences and insights remind us of the power of understanding and leveraging psychological theories like Dabrowski's to enhance educational practices and support students' unique needs. Whether you are a teacher, parent, or someone interested in the psychology of education, this episode provides valuable perspectives on making education a more inclusive and transformative experience.Make sure you listen to the end so you can enjoy our hilarious outtakes!Resources from this episodeBrilliant and Then Some (Summer's website)2024 Dabrowski Congress info page. Summer's session is “The Real Deal—OEs in the Classroom.” Click here to register.“Mellow Out,” They say. If I Only Could: Intensities and Sensitivities of the Young and Bright” by Michael M. PiechowskiLiving with Intensity by Susan Daniels and Michael M. Piechowski (Eds.)Sneaky Stimming video by EmmaEpisode 56: Autoethnography for Personal GrowthMental Floss article: When Tipper Gore Took On 80s Rock MusicConnect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

[Voiceover of written post] The song You'll Never Walk Alone began life on Broadway in 1945, thanks to Rodgers and Hammerstein. It was instantly popular, and has been covered by many artists over the years. But in 1963, Gerry And The Pacemakers did their version, and Liverpudlian magic was made. The song has been fully adopted by Liverpool FC, being sung before every game, and the words ‘You'll Never Walk Alone' being incorporated into the team emblem and forged into the gates of Anfield stadium.It is an uplifting song of hope. The lyrics convey comfort and solidarity. To many, the message of this song is clear—in times of trouble, you're not alone. But if we dig a little deeper, we start to understand the true nature of the troubled times. We start to understand the reasons why you'll never walk alone. More importantly, we can explore how this underlying message is a critical component for navigating Dabrowski's framework of positive disintegration. Walk the path towards your authentic self, and you'll never walk alone. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

Welcome to the first official “From the Archive” post. We've added DC Archive to our Substack navbar, where you'll find posts like this one with media shared from our Dabrowski Center archive. The presentation featured in this post was given by Dr. Michael M. Piechowski at the 12th Annual Hollingworth Conference for Highly Gifted in Manchester, New Hampshire, in May 1999.This audio recording was converted to mp3 from a cassette tape Michael sent to Chris in June 2018. The handout was discovered in a box of transparencies and documents Michael shared with Chris in May 2021. For those who are new here, Michael joined us on Episode 48 of the podcast. Click here for more posts and episodes mentioning Michael.Only the first 45 minutes of the recording were available. The rest is missing in audio, but you can find it in the handout. Visit the Substack post for the handout and transcript. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 56, Chris and Emma discussed autoethnography as a research method, and powerful tool for autopsychotherapy and transformation. Chris described autoethnography as a method for delving into one's life (usually through writing about it), not as an isolated individual but within the broader context of social and cultural influences. This method allows you to understand yourself within systems, considering factors like race, gender, class, privilege, oppression, and trauma.Emma and Chris emphasized the value of gaining insights into your past experiences and behaviors. You can identify turning points and epiphanies, leading to a deeper understanding of yourself. By reflecting on personal history, you uncover patterns, traumas, and societal influences that have shaped your identity. This method also allows you to view your life through the lens of positive disintegration, and identify dynamisms, overexcitabilities and moments of disintegration.Chris shared this quote from Christopher Poulos's Essentials of Autoethnography:“The deep emotional introspection associated with this form of academic writing comes with inherent vulnerability and exposure to the judgment of others, along with the possibility of opening up old trauma, stirring up painful memories, digging into taboo subjects, or sparking grief or other deep emotions.” We discussed our different approaches to this work because the method can be tailored to suit individual preferences and comfort levels. While Chris delves deep into coding journal entries and conducting in-depth research, Emma mentions more accessible approaches like writing about past experiences, talking to others, or reviewing your past social media posts.By utilizing different mediums for self-expression (like art, or video recordings), you can explore personal narratives in diverse ways, uncovering hidden emotions, patterns, and perspectives that may not be apparent through traditional writing alone. Emma shared how she found watching herself in a video discussing her feelings to be enlightening, and that seeing facial expressions and body language helped her understand her emotions better. Chris mentioned the importance of being prepared for the emotional impact of autoethnography. They discussed the need for space, time, and self-care to process the unearthed traumas and painful memories. The process may involve re-traumatizing yourself to some extent, but it can also lead to healing and self-compassion. This multi-dimensional approach allows for a more comprehensive exploration of identity, experiences, and relationships, ultimately leading to a deeper understanding of yourself and your place in the world.Resources from this episodeThe Primary Importance of the Inner Experience of Giftedness, a paper Chris wrote based on the work they described from 2014. Interesting Quotes, Vol. 10 on autoethnographyEssentials of Autoethnography by Christopher N. PoulosConnect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 55, Chris and Emma talked with Kaitlin Smith, a Boston-based scholar, facilitator, and founder of Our Wild Minds, which offers online community and programs that help gifted BIPOC unleash their natural gifts. Kaitlin is also a PhD student at Harvard in History of Science where her research interrogates the history of mind sciences and intersections with African American Studies.Kaitlin shared how her personal experiences and challenges led her to explore Dabrowski's theory of positive disintegration and its relevance to her life and studies. She discussed the complexities of being gifted within the context of racial and cultural identities. She reflected on the challenges faced in her journey, including her experiences with racism and stereotyping within academia as a social work student and therapist-in-training.Kaitlin detailed the creation and mission of Our Wild Minds, a program designed to support gifted BIPOC individuals in unleashing their natural gifts. She outlined the various components of the community and the WildMinder Journey, which includes introspection, connection, learning, manifestation, and giving back.We learned about Kaitlin's online course, Black Brilliance Circle, which serves as a space for gifted Black adults to explore their identities, challenges, and potential. She discusses the richness of bringing together individuals from diverse backgrounds and the power of community in fostering growth and understanding.Our conversation delved into the idea of “Decolonizing Giftedness.” We discussed the importance of addressing the roots of gifted education, as well as challenging and dismantling the biases and assumptions that have historically shaped the field. Kaitlin emphasized embracing complexity and intersectionality in understanding and supporting gifted individuals.We explored the concept of positive maladjustment and its relevance to navigating and challenging oppressive systems. We discussed the importance of self-reflection, learning, and unlearning as crucial tools for both personal growth and societal transformation.The episode concluded with reflections on the importance of lifting others as we climb, and the transformative potential of engaging in deep, meaningful conversations across differences. We are grateful for Kaitlin's willingness to share her journey and insights with our audience.The quotes Chris mentioned by Dr. Ibram X. Kendi:“The only way to undo racism is to consistently identify and describe it and then dismantle it. The attempt to turn this usefully descriptive term racist into an almost unusable slur is, of course, designed to do the opposite, to freeze us into inaction”And"Like fighting an addiction, being an antiracist requires persistent self-awareness, constant self-criticism, and regular self-examination."Resources from this episodeKaitlin's website Our Wild MindsBlack Brilliance CircleHow to Be an Antiracist by Dr. Ibram X. KendiConnect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

Episode 54 features the presentation Chris and Emma gave at Gift-a-Palooza 2024, a virtual summit with more than 45 speakers on the topics of giftedness and neurodiversity. This was our first time presenting together, and we had a great time. We edited the audio from our discussion of positive disintegration in gifted adults. The Q&A isn't included.If you're reading this on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or another podcast platform, please visit the show notes on Substack for the slide images. This first slide is Emma's representation of the process of positive disintegration. [From the transcript] Emma: “When you think you know who you are, everything starts to fall apart. You can go through a process then of sorting things out and trying to reshape. It's a little bit like pulling apart Lego bricks and rebuilding yourself, figuring out what goes at the top and what goes at the bottom… Disintegration's not just a linear, straight-through process. You don't just go step one, two, three, four, five. Through your life, you will get moments where new informational circumstances will come in and it can start that cycle of development again.”The next slide gives insight into values. From Emma: “When we think about what values are, they are the principles or the standards that we have in place for ourselves that drive our behavior, But they're based on what we see as important in life. So, you can see that little diagram I've got. You've got everything that you believe to be true in life and what your priorities are… Based on that, you then build out standards for yourself of how you think you should behave. And then your behaviors come out the back of that.”At the 08:30 mark of this episode, Chris tackled the difference between the unilevel and multilevel processes. On the next slide, we offered an overview of the dynamisms, which can be defined as inner forces that shape and direct our development. At 15:22, Chris described the overexcitabilities as the raw material for producing dynamisms.The path to authenticity represented by a strutting cat. From Emma: "[The path has] got to be self-created because you're the only one who can define what you believe, what's important to you. So then, what are your values? You're the only one who can truly say who you are authentically inside... Think about what's important to you, think about what you really value, and then look at your behavior and say, am I walking my talk? And if I'm not, what can I do to change that to make sure that I am behaving in a way that aligns with my values?" From Chris: “The heart of this theory is inner transformation. It's what the dynamisms are all about: helping you shape yourself into who you're meant to be, who you want to be... One of the beautiful things about positive disintegration is that it can be a creative process of self-development based on your values.”Just after the 25-minute mark, Chris and Emma began discussing their own experiences of positive disintegration, represented by this Disintegration Timeline. We had a blast presenting together at Gift-a-Palooza, and we can't wait to team up on July 11, 2024, at the Dabrowski Congress for a 90-minute workshop called “Walking Your Talk: How to Define and Live Your Values.” Click here or go to https://dabrowskicenter.org/DC2024 for more about #DC2024.Links from this episodePositive Disintegration on SubstackAdults with Overexcitabilities on YouTubeMichael's book Mellow Out2024 Dabrowski CongressGift-a-Palooza 2024 recordings are still available from Gifted & Thriving. Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchJoin us for the 2024 Dabrowski Congress, July 11-13, 2024. Virtual and in-person options.If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 53, Chris and Emma discussed some of the “red flags” to be aware of when consuming content on positive disintegration. They discussed the importance of being aware of potentially problematic sources, particularly for those who are new to the theory. By sharing examples of red flags in other areas of their lives, they aim to help listeners navigate through potentially misleading information (or messages which may do them harm) and encourage critical thinking. Red flag behaviors we covered include:* Discouraging Authenticity: It's crucial to be open and accepting of who others are and who they say they are. The theory of positive disintegration is all about being authentic, so if someone is trying to discourage you from expressing yourself authentically, further investigation is needed.* Canon Purists: Be mindful of when individuals only focus on one perspective. While Dabrowski's work is highly valuable, it's crucial to expand on it and approach positive disintegration as an evolving experience, rather than a rigid theory.* Speculation Without Evidence: We need to be mindful that data, evidence and validation are critical to our understanding of positive disintegration. Question sources, think critically, and look for evidence to back up arguments.* Level Labelers: Watch out for those who categorize individuals into levels or hierarchies based on their development. Positive disintegration is a dynamic process, and it's essential to avoid labeling yourself or others in a way that limits growth and understanding. Embrace the journey and focus on the process rather than fixed levels.* Developmental Potential Elitists: Overexcitability is not only for the gifted. Positive disintegration is a tool that can help people navigate crises. Let's not limit who we can help!* People who are mean: Personal attacks and punching down are not aligned with the wonderful messages of compassion that are found in the theory.Remember to trust your instincts, question sources, and always strive for empathy and authenticity in your interactions.Links from this episodeEpisode 48: Piechowski's Insights on Positive Disintegration for more on why it's best to avoid becoming a “Level Labeler.”Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchJoin us for the 2024 Dabrowski Congress, July 11-13, 2024. Virtual and in-person options. If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 52, Chris and Emma talked with Laura Stavinoha, who offers singers and speakers coaching and counseling about the voice and personal development through her company, Use Your Voice. Laura is the author of the book Voice: A Multifaceted Approach to Self-Growth and Vocal Empowerment and editor-in-chief of the Dutch Positive Disintegration website. She will join us in Denver this summer to present her work at the 2024 Dabrowski Congress. The human voice is a tool for communication, and a reflection of our inner state. Laura discusses how the voice can provide insights into our emotions, stress levels, and personal development. She says our voice is connected to the nervous system and can be influenced by our emotions. When we experience feelings such as nervousness, excitement, or anger, our voice can undergo changes. This connection between emotions and the voice is well-known, as many of us have experienced our voices trembling or becoming shaky when we are anxious or stressed.We talk about the role of overexcitabilities in the voice. Overexcitabilities are heightened sensitivities and intensities that can manifest in different ways, including in the voice. For instance, individuals with psychomotor overexcitability may have rapid speech patterns or a tendency to talk compulsively. Individuals with imaginational overexcitability may experience rapid shifts in thoughts and ideas during conversation. Laura describes how the voice can be a symptom of the conflicts and tensions that arise as we strive for personal growth and self-actualization. These conflicts can manifest in our voice—e.g., feeling constricted or unable to express ourselves authentically. Dynamisms are inner forces that can manifest as inner conflicts and tensions that arise during the process of positive disintegration. These conflicts can be reflected in the voice, through hesitations, inconsistencies, or changes in tone.Laura explains that the autonomic nervous system influences the voice in the same way it influences other bodily functions like heart rate and breathing. Regulating the nervous system through practices like meditation or yoga can have a positive impact on the voice. The human voice can provide valuable insights into our inner state. It can reflect our emotions, stress levels, and personal development. By paying attention to our voice and working on its development, we can gain a deeper understanding of ourselves and enhance our communication with others.Highlights00:03:34 How Laura discovered the theory00:07:34 Laura's path to authenticity00:14:23 The importance of purpose00:17:00 Reflection on developing one's voice00:18:39 Do you like the sound of your own voice?00:22:33: Chris's voice issues00:27:11 Tension and the voice00:28:28 When Laura's voice failed her00:30:28 OEs and the autonomic nervous system00:34:26 How OEs manifest over time00:37:12 Jamie's case and ADHD00:39:45 Overexcitability and neurodivergence00:42:00 TPD as a liberating theory00:43:54 Coexistence of unilevel and multilevel dynamisms00:47:03 Voice as an indicator of well-being00:51:09 Going beneath the surface00:55:05 Doing the developmental work00:56:51 TPD and polyvagal theoryOverall, working on the voice goes beyond simply improving vocal techniques. It involves understanding the connection between the voice and the nervous system, addressing underlying emotional and psychological factors, and developing a holistic approach to voice development.Resources from this episodeUse Your Voice (Laura's website)The book Voice: A Multifaceted Approach to Self-Growth and Vocal Empowerment by Laura Stavinoha (Amazon)Voice Problems as Signs of Positive Disintegration (Laura's 2022 Congress presentation on YouTube)Positieve Desintegratie (in Dutch)2024 Dabrowski Congress page. Registration opens later this week!Connect with usPositive Disintegration [Substack]Visit the Dabrowski Center websitePositive Disintegration Podcast [Facebook]Positive Disintegration Podcast [Instagram]The Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelDabrowski Center [LinkedIn]Adults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by Emma NicholsonEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! Get full access to Positive Disintegration at www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 51, Chris and Emma shared the news that they are presenting at a virtual summit, Gift-a-Palooza, and discussed their plans for the session. This is also the first episode where we've included outtakes at the end. We hope our errors and laughter are as amusing for you as they were for us!Gift-a-Palooza will be the first time Chris and Emma team up for a presentation. Their session is “Navigating the Tides of Change: Positive Disintegration in Gifted Adults,” and it's happening on Saturday, February 3, from 4:15-5:30 pm EST. The full conference dates are February 1-4, 2024, and there's a fantastic lineup with something for everyone in the gifted community.From the hosts, Dr. Michael and Julie Postma of Gifted & Thriving: “This 4-day celebration is dedicated to helping individuals and families in our Gifted & Multi-Exceptional community move from a place of surviving to thriving—by coming together to share and explore our experiences, challenges and joys! This year, we're bringing together 45+ top experts for an array of engaging discussions, live Q&As and special events for educators, families, adults, health professionals and other community members!”If you want to join us, please consider signing up with our affiliate link. The cost is $139 USD for all access. Links from this episodeClick here to sign up! (Affiliate link: https://www.giftedandthriving.com/a/2147748168/TznuMaEi)Gifted & Thriving (website) Get full access to Positive Disintegration at positivedisintegration.substack.com/subscribe

In episode 50, Chris and Emma talked with Dr. Deborah Ruf, author of the award-winning book 5 Levels of Gifted. In 2023, she released a follow-up book called The 5 Levels of Gifted Children Grown Up: What They Tell Us. Our conversation highlights her expertise in studying giftedness and personality across the lifespan.We started the episode by asking Deborah to share her journey, and learned how she was first introduced to Dąbrowski's theory in the early 1990s. Her dissertation study included the theory of positive disintegration, which she has worked with for many years. We discussed how she incorporated the theory into her work while exploring the complexities of giftedness, including its intersection with personality types and life circumstances. Our personalities have a profound impact on our relationships with others as well as with our own self-understanding. Chris shared a few quotes from The 5 Levels of Gifted Children Grown Up during our discussion, including this one about the importance of the environment on development:“It is not the high IQ or intellectual level that causes personal problems for many of our most intellectually gifted people. It is the ongoing presence of a poor environmental “fit” during their childhood. The better the fit, the better the social, emotional, and any other kind of well-being outcome measure, they will have.” (Ruf, 2023)Overall, this episode underscores the multifaceted nature of intelligence and personality, shaping our interactions, self-perception, and adaptation to various environments. Embracing and understanding ourselves can lead to personal growth and improved relationships with others. We highlight the importance of adopting multiple lenses and frameworks to reach a fuller understanding. As complex individuals with diverse backgrounds, strengths, and environments, we require various perspectives to deepen our understanding, heal from past experiences, and develop.Deborah emphasized that personality tests are not fixed and can change as we evolve. Personality tests offer insights into our current state, and by taking them multiple times, we can observe our growth and understand how different factors and periods in our lives impact our moods and responses. Highlights00:02:30 - Dr. Ruf's Journey to Dabrowski's Theory00:05:42 - Personal Growth and Weaving Theories00:08:29 - The Challenges of Funding Research00:13:45 - Personality Matters00:19:55 - An Example of Self-Understanding00:23:20 - The Need for Multiple Perspectives 00:26:26 - Impact of Personality on Life Choices00:32:41 - Importance of Environmental Fit for Gifted Individuals00:34:48 - Round Pegs in Square Holes00:39:25 - Environmental Fit Issues Continue in Adulthood00:42:15 - Transcending Psychological Type00:43:57 - The Intersection of Giftedness and Personality00:48:17 - Levels of Giftedness 00:56:45 - The Issue of Multiple-Exceptionalities00:59:35 - Understanding and Overcoming Trauma01:04:39 - Apologizing Without Excuses01:06:09 - The Complexity of Personal Identity and Labels* A transcript of this episode is available on our website. Resources from this episodeThe 5 Levels of Gifted Children Grown Up: What They Tell Us (Amazon)5 Levels of Gifted: School Issues and Educational Options (Amazon)Keys to Successfully Parenting the Gifted Child (Amazon)Gifted Through the Lifespan (Dr. Ruf on Substack) Five Levels of Gifted (Dr. Ruf's website)Karen Nelson's 1989 paper from Advanced Development JournalConversations on Gifted Trauma podcast Personality Page (The price is now $6.99 per test, but worthwhile for those who are interested)Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! Get full access to Positive Disintegration at positivedisintegration.substack.com/subscribe

In episode 49, Chris and Emma delve into the topic of socialization. We discussed how our understanding of socialization has evolved and how it plays a role in personal growth. We emphasized the deliberate nature of multilevel development and that individuals must actively and consciously engage in the process. Simply going through life on autopilot or relying on automatic responses and behaviors is not enough. We must be intentional and self-created in our individual approaches to personal growth.We shared insights on the fluid nature of socialization and how it intertwines with the development of dynamisms in our lives. We reflected on the impact of socialization on personal growth and the challenges one must face. Sometimes, the heart does not want to let go of certain beliefs, even if the mind cognitively understands that they may not be beneficial. This emotional attachment to certain beliefs can be a challenge to overcome in the journey of personal growth.We emphasized the importance of self-reflection and critical examination of our motivations and beliefs to understand the extent to which others have influenced them. By doing so, we can better understand ourselves and make more conscious choices in our lives. We discussed the importance of developing confidence in one's own path and not relying on external validation. We also acknowledged that external feedback can serve as a reminder or a prompt to check one's compass and ensure they are heading in the right direction.Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

In episode 48, Chris and Emma talked with Dr. Michael M. Piechowski, close collaborator of Dr. Kazimierz Dabrowski and a scholar in the field of gifted education. Michael's work has expanded our understanding of the theory of positive disintegration and the qualitative experience of giftedness.We covered many topics in this episode, from Michael meeting Dabrowski in Edmonton in 1967 to his retirement from Yunasa last summer. We learned about Michael's early work with the theory and conducting research, the transition from science to counseling and pursuing a second doctorate, rethinking the levels of development, and understanding the importance of the unilevel and multilevel processes.Michael talked with us about the research he did with Dabrowski that provided a foundation for his work. We learned about the creation of his original Overexcitability Questionnaire, his second dissertation, Formless Forms, and his two papers from more recent years called Rethinking Dabrowski's Theory. We discussed why he felt it was necessary to rethink the levels and what case material was applied to this work.This episode was recorded at Michael's home during Chris's visit to Madison, Wisconsin, and the format is conversational. We learned more about what Dr. Dabrowski was like as a person and how to pronounce his name correctly. Michael also talked with us about what areas of research he'd like to see replicated or built on in the future.Links from this episodeVisit the Piechowski Archive on the Dabrowski Center's websiteMichael's book Mellow Out is available via Royal Fireworks PressMichael is co-editor of Living with Intensity and Off the Charts.He is a Senior Fellow of the Institute for Educational Advancement.Michael mentioned co-creating Yunasa with two of his dear friends who have also been podcast guests: Episode 19 with Stephanie Tolan and Episode 35 with Dr. Patty Gatto-Walden.Chris has written posts about Michael with links and photos to accompany this episode, including:Who is Michael M. Piechowski?Celebrating a Lifetime of Resilience, Scholarship, and InfluenceMy Experience of Being a StudentMajor works that were mentioned:Michael's 1975 monographFormless FormsLysy & Piechowski (1983)Rethinking Dabrowski's Theory: I. The Case Against Primary Integration (2014)Rethinking Dąbrowski's Theory II: It's Not All Flat Here (2017)Michael's ResearchGate ProfileEpisode 18 with Rachel FellEpisode 36: Fostering Gifted Growth at YunasaQuick Bite, Two Years of Positive Disintegration (Episode 46)Emma's video on Positive Disintegration using the Matrix analogyDeborah Ruf's new book The 5 Levels of Gifted Children Grown Up and her Substack accountWomen's Ways of Knowing by Belenky et al.Michael's 2008 chapter has more on conserving vs transforming growth, as well as Barry Grant's work.Table of forms and manifestations of overexcitabilityConnect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! Get full access to Positive Disintegration at positivedisintegration.substack.com/subscribe

In episode 47, Chris and Emma talked with Katy McDaniel and Emily Strand from the Potterversity podcast. Katy is a professor of history at Marietta College, and Emily is a professor of religious studies at Mt. Carmel College of Nursing. Emma is the technical director for Potterversity, so her worlds collide in this conversation. We kicked off the discussion by learning more about how the Potterversity pod used to be called something else. It was renamed because of the comments made by the creator of Harry Potter in 2020, which led to the whole team rethinking and realigning their values. We talked about the difficulties of loving art while grappling with problematic artists and authors. Values in the Harry Potter series were a major part of this episode, and we discussed multiple scenes and characters through the lens of positive disintegration. We engaged in a thought-provoking conversation about the significance of difficult emotions and their contribution to personal growth and transformation. We acknowledged the societal pressure to constantly pursue happiness and challenge the notion that something must be wrong if one is not always happy. Embracing powerful and challenging emotions is essential for personal development and transformation.The Harry Potter books do not promise a life devoid of troubles or a fairy-tale ending. Instead, it presents a narrative of alchemical transformation, where characters undergo loss and face challenges, ultimately emerging as something greater. Positive disintegration was explored in this episode as the process of breaking down and reconstructing one's values and sense of self. This transformative journey often entails experiencing difficult emotions such as guilt, shame, ambivalence, and concern for others' opinions. By breaking free from societal scripts and expectations, akin to the characters in Harry Potter, individuals can foster personal growth and authenticity.Overall, the episode underscores the importance of embracing difficult emotions and experiences as catalysts for personal growth and transformation. It challenges the societal expectation of constant happiness and highlights the value of navigating challenging periods to achieve personal development.Links from this episodePotterversity podcastPotterversity Episode 39: Considering Cockroach Clusters: Food in the Wizarding World - Part TwoPotterversity Episode 40: Unpacking PetuniaEmily's website Potterversity: Essays Exploring the World of Harry Potter (Pre-order now in stock!)Monsters: A Fan's Dilemma Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

In episode 46, Chris and Emma celebrate the second birthday of the Positive Disintegration podcast and reflect on their work together. Our first episode launched on October 25, 2021, and in this Quick Bite, we expressed our gratitude for the podcast's positive impact on our lives and the friendship that has developed between us. We shared our initial expectations and how pleasantly surprised we were by the podcast's success and our compatibility as co-hosts. We discussed some feedback we've received from guests and listeners, and marveled at the impact it has made……which is, of course, what we originally set out to do, but we had no idea whether or not it would work! We talked about some of the fears and anxieties we had in starting the podcast—fear of not being “perfect,” wondering about whether or not people would embrace the podcast format, and also the nervousness we both had about collaborating when we hardly knew each other.This discussion really is a celebration of all we have achieved, discovered about ourselves (and each other), overcome, and learned. Importantly, it is also an acknowledgment of the contribution that our wonderful guests and listeners have made to both the podcast and our lives.Thank you to everyone who has supported us, and joined us on this journey! Mentioned in this episodeThe echidna: Emma's Adults with Overexcitabilities YouTube Channel and Tragic Gift blog. Democracy Sausages for Australian Voters Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

In episode 45, Chris and Emma discussed the upcoming 16th International Dabrowski Congress, which will be held virtually on July 11-13, 2024. In the episode, we discussed the proposed format, the theme, keynote speakers, and we put out a call for your action. We're calling for proposals for speakers, for workshops, and also for people to host “watch parties” in their local region.The 2024 Dabrowski Congress theme is “Living the Theory,” and there will be keynotes from Lotte van Lith, Dr. Eric Windhorst, and Emma Nicholson. We'll have programming for live participants in their time zones (Europe, North America, and Australia). We'll be having watch parties in these regions where people can gather in person to watch and enjoy sessions together. Don't forget to register your interest and let us know how and where you would like to attend!Links from this episodeOfficial 2024 Dabrowski Congress pageCall for Proposals View videos from the 2022 Dąbrowski CongressRegister your interest in the 2024 CongressLearn more about our keynoters, Lotte van Lith, Eric Windhorst, and Emma Nicholson. Lotte was the guest on episode 9, and Eric on episode 10. Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

In episode 44, Chris and Emma talked with Dr. Matt Zakreski, a clinical psychologist specializing in neurodivergence and giftedness. Matt discussed his personal connections with his work as a psychologist in the gifted field and his experiences being gifted and ADHD. We discussed topics such as neurodivergence, personal growth, and giftedness, and Dr. Matt shared personal stories and insights. Matt talked about embracing complexity and multiple perspectives and told us that he supports autonomy in the path to self-discovery. This means letting people come to their own place of understanding. We don't have to live in a world of black and white. We can live in a world of unique and infinite complexities. We talked about helping people develop self-efficacy and self-determination. Matt said we're shaped not only by what happens to us but how we respond to it, and he shared that he sees personality as an ongoing process of development. We discussed misdiagnosis and moving away from the medical model. Speaking of kids in school, Matt said that he believes in the productive struggle rather than a pointless and painful struggle. There's got to be a direction. Dr. Matt shared the origins of what made him such a strong ally for the LGBTQ+ community. He said we've got to make more spaces open for people to come as they are, and when that happens, everybody wins. There are no downsides to letting people be their most authentic selves and get the support and accommodations that are required and necessary to facilitate their growth. We agree wholeheartedly. Listeners are encouraged to approach the complexities of the world with an open mind.Links from this episodeThe Neurodiversity Collective (Dr. Matt's website)You can find Dr. Matt on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.Failure is Fun…damental (YouTube)Falling in Love is Hard on OEs (YouTube)When Emotional Intensity and Cognitive Rigidity Collide (PDF)From The G Word's GTN Awareness Week: Sex Education For Gifted Kids + LGBTQ Panel with Matt, Chris, Church, and Ilan, hosted by Marc Smolowitz. Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

In episode 43, Chris and Emma delved into the topic of trauma and disintegration, spurred by a question from our Facebook community. We discussed that while trauma can act as a catalyst for disintegration, it is not a prerequisite. Disintegration can also be triggered by other life events, such as a spiritual awakening or the recognition of social injustices that demand action.We emphasize that personal growth is more closely linked to the experience of dynamisms rather than trauma alone. Living through trauma doesn't guarantee growth; it's the internal dynamisms that play a pivotal role in one's development.Our conversation also covered the third factor dynamism, a key element guiding an individual's development toward higher or more ethical choices. We explored how self-reflection and value alignment contribute to this complex decision-making process. We encouraged listeners to not only ponder their core values but to also assess whether their actions genuinely align with those beliefs—are you walking your talk?We acknowledged that stepping out of one's comfort zone is often easier said than done. Real transformation involves a multi-faceted approach: deep self-reflection, choices that align with your values, and a concerted effort to break free from unproductive habits and behaviors.Looking ahead, we're excited to announce “Ask Me Anything” episodes. We invite our listeners to submit their questions with the subject or hashtag #AskMeAnything. You can connect with us through Facebook, Instagram, or via email at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com. We look forward to your engagement as we continue to explore the many dimensions of positive disintegration. Links from this episodeWe discussed Dr. Michael M. Piechowski and the thread that runs through his writing about “the work of inner transformation.” We're planning an Interesting Quotes post on that topic. Emma's video on Planning Authentic Action With a Process Flow covers the topic of thinking about how you will walk your talk.The Neurodiversity Podcast was mentioned.Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

In episode 42, Chris and Emma continued the conversation with Catherine Zakoian, MA, NCC, LPC, a counselor and consultant from Boulder, Colorado, and author of Raising Gifted Children: A Practical Guide for Parents Facing Big Emotions and Big Potential. We started the discussion by asking Catherine to talk about how the dynamisms show up in her clinical practice with gifted children. She shared insights from asking kids to use symbols to identify the different parts of themselves and helping them work through and resolve inner conflicts. Catherine also discussed the tension children can experience about the world around them, reconciling their desire to do good in the world while also feeling repulsed by the state of it. Self-reflection and goal-setting can be beneficial for children. It provides them with an opportunity to think about their ideal self and who they want to be. By guiding children through the reflective process, they can develop an emerging personality ideal and gain the practice of self-reflection. We discussed the delicate work of acknowledging a person's past experiences while helping them navigate their identity. We emphasized the importance of not dismissing or invalidating someone's past but rather acknowledging and validating those experiences. Catherine brought up the fact that Chris has been learning Polish, and Chris shared a little about how and why that happened. Names that came up in this episode included Immanuel Kant, Joseph Chilton Pearce, and Peace Pilgrim. Note that we recorded this episode before Frank Falk passed away in April, which is why we talked about him as we did toward the end of the episode. The Fourth Factor was mentioned, a term that comes from Elizabeth Mika, but we didn't go into it in depth. Listen to Episode 17 with Elizabeth for more. Links from this episodeRaising Gifted Children: A Practical Guide for Parents Facing Big Emotions and Big Potential by Catherine ZakoianLumineux Institute (Catherine's website)Connect with usPositive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

[Voiceover of written post] In part three, Chris reflects on their journey of self-discovery through the lens of Dąbrowski's theory and autoethnography. They recount how discovering autoethnography provided them with a framework to understand their life experiences, including traumas and their father's alcoholism. This revelation came during their doctoral studies in psychology, where they also learned about being twice-exceptional (gifted and disabled), challenging their previous beliefs.Chris discusses their struggles with mental health and addiction, initially seeking understanding through psychiatry and later questioning these diagnoses through the lens of autoethnography and Dąbrowski's theory. They detail their process of self-examination, which included revisiting personal journals, medical records, and conducting interviews with people from their past. This introspection led to a reevaluation of their mental health diagnoses and a decision to stop taking psychiatric medications.Their exploration of Dąbrowski's theory, particularly through interactions with Michael Piechowski and Linda Silverman, helped them reframe their understanding of their mental health and intellectual giftedness. This new perspective enabled them to see their intense experiences not as symptoms of illness but as strengths. Chris emphasizes the transformative power of self-understanding and acceptance, culminating in a newfound sense of liberation and purpose to share their insights with others. They conclude by encouraging others on similar paths to be patient and kind to themselves in their journey of self-discovery and healing. Get full access to Positive Disintegration at positivedisintegration.substack.com/subscribe

In episode 41, Chris and Emma talked with Catherine Zakoian, MA, NCC, LPC, a counselor and educational consultant from Boulder, Colorado. Catherine is also the author of Raising Gifted Children: A Practical Guide for Parents Facing Big Emotions and Big Potential.We discussed emotional tension and the issue of confronting our individual shadows, as well as the shadow in groups, such as families and communities. Catherine shared valuable insights on navigating this type of inner work, which can be helpful for individuals and clinicians on their personal growth journeys.Catherine shared her experiences of applying Dabrowski's theory in her clinical practice, offering practical guidance for therapists and clients alike. Whether you're just starting to study the theory or working on yourself, you'll find plenty of worthwhile nuggets in this conversation.We talk about Catherine's expertise, which extends to educational consulting, where she provides guidance to schools and organizations serving gifted and twice-exceptional (2e) populations. She also shared some of her insights from working with gifted children and their families, offering practical advice for parents and educators.Catherine and Chris know each other thanks to participating in the Dabrowski Study Group that was recently mentioned in one of our posts on Substack.Links from this episodeRaising Gifted Children: A Practical Guide for Parents Facing Big Emotions and Big Potential by Catherine ZakoianWe discussed past Dąbrowski Congresses. Consider joining us at the 2024 Dąbrowski Congress!Learn more about the Dabrowski Study Group in Chris's post, The Positive Disintegration Study Group.Episode 28 with Kate Arms was mentioned.Catherine mentioned Michael M. Piechowski's 1975 monograph (PDF download).Chris mentioned the Parents of Gifted and Twice-Exceptional Kids Facebook group.Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

[Voiceover of written post] This is part two of Chris's personal journey of overcoming self-stigma. Chris narrates their struggle with self-stigma and mental health, beginning with feeling like a failure post-high school despite being identified as gifted. Seeking understanding in psychiatry led to a deeper sense of disempowerment and self-stigma, which they define as internalizing societal prejudices, resulting in low self-esteem and poor self-efficacy.Hospitalization at 21 intensified these feelings, even as they were acknowledged for their giftedness. Chris grappled with internalized ableism, feeling broken due to their unique mental processes and an unrelenting pursuit of normalcy.Their journey towards reclaiming self-efficacy was gradual, marked by challenges in fitting in at Kansas State University at 25 and a deeper understanding of their capabilities. A significant turning point came when they moved to California, where steps towards a drug-free life, education, and meaningful employment helped rebuild their self-esteem. Their relationship with Jason also played a crucial role in their recovery.Despite ongoing self-perception as mentally ill, the author achieved academic success, culminating in a degree in social work. Part 3 will include discovering Dąbrowski's theory, stopping medication, rethinking and rewriting the past, and finding self-acceptance. Get full access to Positive Disintegration at positivedisintegration.substack.com/subscribe

In episode 40, Chris and Emma shared that they now offer a newsletter and paid subscriptions on Substack. Chris has decided to hold off on producing a book this year and instead is sharing writing for the public directly while working on other projects. Making the theory more accessible is our goal, and this is one way to get it done. Although Chris feels called to this work, the reality is that they are currently working primarily for donations. We discussed how values need to be weighed and balanced. For instance, the desire to make information about the theory as accessible as possible while also ensuring this content creation is sustainable. Considerations like authenticity in content, valuing yourself and your work, and making tough choices all connect with the theory.It has taken a lot of time, contemplation, and effort to reach a place where we can offer a subscription plan, and we're grateful to everyone who has already signed up. A paid subscription costs $60 annually or $6 monthly USD. The cost to become a Founding Member is $100 per year. If an ongoing subscription isn't your thing, you can also make one-off (tax-deductible!) donations to the Dabrowski Center or pick up some cool Positive Disintegration merch for your money.Here are the links to our first free newsletter posts:Welcome to Positive Disintegration, the Newsletter!Two Years of Friendship and Podcast Co-HostingOvercoming the Stigma of Mental Illness, Part 1Interesting Quotes, Volume 1Note that an audio recording is available for each written post for accessibility. We're still working on transcripts for the podcast episodes, but you can find the ones we've completed on the Dabrowski Center website.Thank you so much for supporting our work. We appreciate you!Social links and other info:Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/positivedisintegrationpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/positivedisintegration_podcast/)Join the Adults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookJoin Dabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookPlease, consider supporting the podcast. Positive Disintegration is brought to you by the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. You can find our merch here on Bonfire.Subscribe here for the Dabrowski Center's monthly newsletter and information about the 2024 Dabrowski Congress.If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! Get full access to Positive Disintegration at positivedisintegration.substack.com/subscribe

[Voiceover of written post] This is part one of Chris's personal journey of self-discovery and overcoming self-stigma. Growing up, they always felt out of sync with others, perceiving themselves as an outlier due to their intellectual giftedness and neurodivergence. They struggled with being different, leading to a belief in their own mental illness during adolescence. By 17, they had accepted this perceived mental illness, experiencing mood swings and depression, which they later saw as a mood disorder. This belief was reinforced by a bipolar disorder diagnosis at 19 and subsequent medication treatments.Chris published their first book at 20 but couldn't enjoy it due to their mental health struggles. They experienced suicidal tendencies, leading to multiple hospitalizations and diagnoses over the years. Despite these challenges, they continued writing, a constant in their life.The post also touches on Chris's experiences with disability benefits, their struggle with self-stigma, and the impact of various treatments and medications on their life. They discuss their journey through higher education, which was disrupted by their mental health issues, and their time at Menninger Clinic. Get full access to Positive Disintegration at positivedisintegration.substack.com/subscribe

In episode 39, Chris and Emma talked with Dr. Joey Lawrence, a PDA autistic person, clinical psychologist, and neurodiversity advocate living and working in Australia. In this episode, we discussed neurodivergent lived experiences and how we think about and talk about these aspects of our lives with partners, clients, and at the societal level. The importance of mutual understanding was a part of this discussion, and how difficult it can be to attain.Joey shared her experiences from multiple viewpoints since she is a gifted, autistic PDAer who also is a clinician working in practice with neurodivergent clients. She discussed PDA as the persistent drive for autonomy and explained that anything that impinges on autonomy—whether that impingement is perceived or actual—causes a dysregulating response. We learned that PDA people don't respond well to traditional approaches.We discussed relationships and the challenges of balancing our passions and interests with partners who may not operate from the same level of intensity. And we also addressed the struggle of talking about giftedness in neurodiversity spaces where it is often dismissed or seen as elitist, ableist, or otherwise problematic. Not to mention that Joey and Emma live in Australia, where they feel there is a sense of erasure around giftedness.Chris talked about the desire to be “normal” and how difficult it can feel to accept ourselves and be authentic when others perceive us as too intense. Joey described the experience of unmasking and discovering that being herself sometimes derailed relationships.We talked about Joey's work as a psychologist using TPD in practice in Australia. Chris mentioned the struggle of reaching the people who need help when we are so limited due to licensure and regulations. We agreed that we need a different kind of field since what we're talking about is guiding people through the process of positive disintegration. We need to revolutionize the mental health system because people who need help are so frequently traumatized by their experiences in the current system.While wrapping up this episode, Joey said that Dąbrowski was creating a system dynamics theory before there was system dynamics, which resonated. She said we need to go through positive disintegration at the societal level, and this is the neurodiversity movement. We cause harm when viewing distressing human experiences as pathology. We have to shift our way of thinking, not only the content of our thoughts.Resources from this episodeJoey shares her lived experience on TikTok, and you can also find her on Instagram.Joey is the Director of Neudle PsychologyThe paper Chris and Joey mentioned at the beginning of the episode [PDF]Conversations on Gifted Trauma podcastEmma's video on Disintegrating in a RelationshipAre you a Thought Dancer? blogEmbracing Intensity podcastIf This is a Gift, Can I Send it Back? by Jen MerrillAutistic Researchers Researching Autism (Facebook group)Social links and other info:Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/positivedisintegrationpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/positivedisintegration_podcast/)Join the Adults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookJoin Dabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookPlease, consider supporting the podcast. Positive Disintegration is brought to you by the Dabrowski Center. You can find our merch here on Bonfire.Subscribe here for the Dabrowski Center's monthly newsletter and information about the 2024 Dabrowski Congress.If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! Get full access to Positive Disintegration at positivedisintegration.substack.com/subscribe

We've added Quick Bites to our podcast offerings to allow Chris and Emma the opportunity to discuss topics of interest with brevity. In the first Quick Bite episode, they tackled the issue of regret. How do we confront past decisions that haunt us? How can we use the feeling of regret as an opportunity to move forward and transform ourselves?First, we talked about the evolution of the language we use based on the realization that our words were unkind or unacceptable. And we explored navigating our digital footprint through the lens of regret, such as our old social media posts and other things we've said that remain online as testaments to our former selves.We discussed learning to accept feedback and correction from a gratitude perspective. Learning that we've done something wrong gives us a chance to do better. We all make mistakes and can use our errors as opportunities for growth and personal evolution.We addressed dealing with the emotional consequences of relationship issues and conflicts. When people are no longer in our lives, and we can't get closure, we can still find peace and forgive ourselves. We can transform guilt and regret into action. And we can practice self-compassion and kindness toward ourselves.For more on ableist language in everyday speech: Why You Need to Stop Using these Words and Phrases by Rakshitha Arni Ravishankar.Chris mentioned doing an autoethnography, and you can read more about that project in a paper called The Primary Importance of the Inner Experience of Giftedness [PDF].There was a shout-out to Dan Tichenor and his message, “Be kind to yourself.” Episode 14 with Michele Kane on Relationships and Vulnerability was mentioned.Let us know if you have a topic to suggest for a future Quick Bite episode via email at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com.Social links and other info:Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/positivedisintegrationpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/positivedisintegration_podcast/)Twitter (https://twitter.com/DabrowskiPod)Join the Adults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookJoin Dabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookPlease, consider supporting the podcast. Positive Disintegration is brought to you by the Dabrowski Center. You can find our merch here on Bonfire.Subscribe here for the Dabrowski Center's monthly newsletter and information about the 2024 Dabrowski Congress.If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! Get full access to Positive Disintegration at positivedisintegration.substack.com/subscribe

In episode 37, Chris and Emma talked with Marni Kammersell, a 2e adult, doctoral student at Bridges Graduate School, and parent of three 2e children in Colorado. We started this episode by discussing our concerns about how overexcitabilities are sometimes interpreted in the gifted community. Parents of gifted and 2e children sometimes discover the OEs and stop there without exploring the types of neurodivergence that may be present in their children. We talked about the reality that it's possible to have a healthy neurodivergent identity without pathologizing oneself. Marni shared experiences from her journey as a 2e parent of 2e kids who have never attended formal schooling. She broached the idea that people should get to decide for themselves which words apply to their experiences and which communities they choose to associate with. Emma had freshly read Dąbrowski's book Psychoneurosis is Not an Illness when we recorded this episode and talked about his pioneering work as a clinician who was neurodiversity-affirming before that term existed. In his work, there is a clear message that being different doesn't mean you're defective. We learned about self-directed education, what that means, and how at its core, it is based on trusting children—and trusting all humans because, ideally, we should all become self-directed learners by the time formal schooling ends. Self-directed education and unschooling are grounded in children's rights and youth liberation, while traditional education operates top-down with a power over dynamic rather than power with. Marni also talked about the difference between homeschooling and unschooling. At the end of our discussion, we also discussed self-directed education in adulthood. The Positive Disintegration Study Group was mentioned more than once in this episode. If you're interested in joining the group, which meets monthly on Zoom, you can write to Chris at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com. The group requires a six-month commitment and a small monthly fee. Links from this episodeNurturing Neurodiversity (Marni's website)Alliance for Self-Directed EducationUnschooling Every Family (Facebook group)Teenage Liberation Handbook by Grace Llewellyn (Amazon)Free to Learn by Peter Gray (publisher site)Social links and other info:Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/positivedisintegrationpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/positivedisintegration_podcast/)Twitter (https://twitter.com/DabrowskiPod)Join the Adults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookJoin Dabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookPlease, consider supporting the podcast. Positive Disintegration is brought to you by the Dabrowski Center. You can find our merch here on Bonfire.Subscribe here for the Dabrowski Center's monthly newsletter and information about the 2024 Dabrowski Congress.If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! Get full access to Positive Disintegration at positivedisintegration.substack.com/subscribe

In episode 36, Chris and Emma discussed Yunasa, a camp for gifted and twice-exceptional children offered by the Institute for Educational Advancement. Working at Yunasa and spending time with everyone involved is a highlight of Chris's year.Chris has worked at Yunasa West four times since 2019 and shared what it's been like to speak with the campers about Dąbrowski's theory and overexcitability. Chris talked about workshops with the campers, and the challenge of discussing positive disintegration without excessive jargon. We discussed how the campers relate to the theory, and what it tells us about the lived experience of youth who can so readily recognize themselves in the dynamisms.We also talked about how important it is to create safe spaces, provide mirroring and mentoring, and plant mental “seeds,” which may come to fruition later in life. This includes ideas about the importance of acceptance, how emotional states can be managed, and seeing multiple generations of adults support each other in their daily lives.Chris mentioned psychosynthesis, which is a well-developed approach to personal growth created by Dr. Roberto Assagioli. Chris has been using psychosynthesis techniques for the past several years and enjoys the opportunity to share guided imagery exercises with campers at Yunasa in the role of Facilitator.Links from this episodeYunasa (IEA website)About Yunasa (IEA website)For more on the psychosynthesis exercises, read What We May Be by Piero Ferrucci (Amazon)Previous episodes we mentioned:Ep. 8. Surviving DisintegrationEp. 16. Overexcitability and Openness to Experience with Shelagh GallagherEp. 19. The Challenge of Levels with Stephanie TolanEp. 24. Through the Lens of Youth with Lance JohnsonEp. 35 Dąbrowski's Theory in Practice with Patty Gatto-WaldenThere was also a shout-out to Katy Higgins Lee from episode 30, Celebrating Neurodiversity, Overexcitabilities, and Giftedness.Social links and other info:Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/positivedisintegrationpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/positivedisintegration_podcast/)Twitter (https://twitter.com/DabrowskiPod)Join the Adults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookJoin Dabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookPlease, consider supporting the podcast. Positive Disintegration is brought to you by the Dabrowski Center. You can find our merch here on Bonfire.Subscribe here for the Dabrowski Center's monthly newsletter and information about the 2024 Dabrowski Congress.If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit positivedisintegration.substack.com

In episode 35, Chris and Emma talked with Dr. Patricia Gatto-Walden, an American licensed psychologist with offices in Colorado and Florida. Patty applies the theory of positive disintegration in her practice with the highly and profoundly gifted.Patty studied with Dr. Michael M. Piechowski as a graduate student when he taught at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign in the late 1970s, and he introduced her to the work of Dąbrowski and Maslow. Years later, they reconnected, became close friends, and worked together as Senior Fellows to help create Yunasa, a camp for highly gifted children run by the Institute for Educational Advancement.We learned about Patty's early work with the profoundly gifted in her role as the Director of Guidance and Counseling at University High School at the University of Illinois. She described falling in love with that population, and she's worked with PG individuals of all ages ever since. She talked with us about her holistic approach to the gifted, which is the basis of her book, Embracing the Whole Gifted Self. Patty talked with us about the necessity of honoring all five domains of the self: intellectual, emotional, physical, spiritual, and social. Patty shared the importance of seeing gifted individuals as whole people and more than their minds.How can therapists of the gifted serve this population well? Patty shared several ideas on this topic from her own experience. Understanding one's own levels of giftedness and empathy is critical when working with clients. We learned some of the essentials for clinicians and how they can prepare themselves to be present and grounded in their work.In the final part of our discussion, Patty talked about the life journey inward toward the Golden Core, or our inner guidance system. Discovering our meaning and purpose in life and facing ourselves courageously are parts of this journey.Links from this episode:Patricia Gatto-Walden, Ph.D. (Patty's website)Embracing the Whole Gifted Self (Patty's book)Yunasa (IEA website)Piechowski archive (Dąbrowski Center website)Social links and other info:Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/positivedisintegrationpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/positivedisintegration_podcast/)Twitter (https://twitter.com/DabrowskiPod)Join the Adults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookJoin Dabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookPlease, consider supporting the podcast. Positive Disintegration is brought to you by the Dabrowski Center.Subscribe here for the Dabrowski Center's monthly newsletter and information about the 2024 Dabrowski Congress.If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!Thank you for listening to Positive Disintegration. Please share! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit positivedisintegration.substack.com

**Content warning**: Please be aware that this episode contains sensitive topics such as addiction, death, suicide, and trauma. In episode 34, Chris and Emma talked about mental health. The episode is a part of SENG's outreach efforts for Mental Health Awareness Month. We discussed the theory of positive disintegration as an invaluable tool for reframing our personal beliefs. How can big emotions be helpful in your development and not a sign of mental illness? We talk about our experiences with difficult emotions and tough times, and how the theory of positive disintegration offered us a new way to see ourselves as “not broken.” We also discuss how Dąbrowski's invaluable work is contrary to what we see on mental health websites—and how the theory's absence (and the lack of information about neurodiversity) in mental health spaces could be robbing people of essential tools to help themselves. We're left with the ultimate question of how we can make positive disintegration more visible in mental health spaces, where it can be of real benefit.Also, in this episode, Chris shared about the loss of her friend and mentor, Dr. Frank Falk, who was our guest in episode five. Frank was a social psychologist and statistician who worked closely with Chris for the past several years as they studied Dąbrowski's theory together in depth.Frank will be deeply missed, and we dedicate this episode to his memory.Links from this episode:SENG website (Supporting the Emotional Needs of the Gifted) Obituary for R. Frank Falk, Ph.D.Episode 5: Researching Overexcitability with Frank FalkThe Origins and Conceptual Evolution of Overexcitability by Wells & Falk (ResearchGate)Advanced Development Journal (via GDC website)The Primary Importance of the Inner Experience of Giftedness by Chris Wells (ResearchGate)Stories Lived. Stories Told. Podcast with Abbie VanMeter Resources from the Dabrowski CenterPeace Pilgrim's book can be acquired free of chargeSocial links and other info:Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/positivedisintegrationpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/positivedisintegration_podcast/)Twitter (https://twitter.com/DabrowskiPod)Join the Adults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookJoin Dabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookPlease, consider supporting the podcast. Positive Disintegration is brought to you by the Dabrowski Center.Subscribe here for the Dabrowski Center's monthly newsletter and information about the 2024 Dabrowski Congress.If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!Thank you for listening to Positive Disintegration. Please share! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit positivedisintegration.substack.com

In episode 33, Chris and Emma talked with David Sweeney, a fellow traveler on the path to authenticity. Identified as gifted late in life, David shared his introduction to positive disintegration, his understanding of giftedness, and insights into how trauma early in life shaped his abilities.We discussed discovering the theory of positive disintegration and overexcitabilities, dealing with sensitivities in daily life, and then talked about some of the reading rabbit holes David tumbled down like Alice! This includes his reading into giftedness, researching neuroscience, and discovering how trauma relates to his experience of being adopted.The conversation then turns to mysticism, having mystical experiences, and some of the complications of discussing those experiences in the modern world.Links from this episodeFor more on Elizabeth Mika, see Episode 17InterGiftedPersonality-Shaping through Positive Disintegration by Kazimierz Dabrowski (2015 reprint)PositiveDisintegration.comThird Factor MagazineLiving with Intensity by Daniels & PiechowskiKelly PrydeGifted Mindfulness CollectiveFrames of Mind by Howard GardnerThe Highly Sensitive PersonThe Mind Illuminated by John YatesThe Primal Wound by Nancy VarrierComing Home to Self by Nancy VerrierEknath Easwaran's Blue Mountain Center of MeditationSocial links and other info:Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/positivedisintegrationpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/positivedisintegration_podcast/)Twitter (https://twitter.com/DabrowskiPod)Join the Adults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookJoin Dabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Community on FacebookPlease, consider supporting the podcast. Positive Disintegration is brought to you by the Dabrowski Center.Subscribe here for the Dabrowski Center's monthly newsletter and information about the 2024 Dabrowski Congress.If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit positivedisintegration.substack.com

In episode 32, Chris and Emma talked with Sophia Elliott, parent, advocate, and host of the Our Gifted Kids podcast. We covered a wide range of topics in this conversation, from learning about Dąbrowski's theory, neurodiversity, and giftedness to education, policy, and parenting challenges. We also covered storytelling, podcasting, and the value of sharing our personal experiences.Sophia talked about the beauty of positive disintegration as an alternative framework. She described the overexcitabilities as a “gateway drug” that draws people in and said that it's meaningful to go deeper into the theory as a way of understanding ourselves from a non-pathologizing perspective. We talked about Dąbrowski as a forerunner of the neurodiversity movement and his theory as intuitive and forward-thinking. As we have seen clearly in recent years, anxiety and depression are often natural reactions to the world we live in.We discussed giftedness as a neurodivergent way of being in its own right and that its impact goes far beyond the educational setting. Although education is the field that has taken it most seriously, Sophia reminded us of the need to study giftedness in other fields, such as psychology and medicine. General practitioners, pediatricians, and other doctors need a basic understanding of the reality of this experience.There are real challenges to giftedness as well as overexcitability. We discuss how Dąbrowski's views are more aligned with how neurodiversity “ought to be” today—to recognize that all neurodivergent people are whole people and that everyone has strengths and challenges in their lives.We addressed the need for community and finding other people who get it. As podcasters, we know that it's critical to be brave enough to question and share, and we want to encourage others to do the same. The message that came through loud and clear is that we do have an international community, and we support each other. You are not alone!Links from this episodeOur Gifted Kids (website)Why You Need Dabrowski (Chris and Emma's episode on Our Gifted Kids pod)NeuroTribes by Steve SilbermanGifted Research & Outreach (GRO)Emma's videos about OE and their challengesJen Merrill's book, If This is a Gift, Can I Send it Back?Jen's blog Laughing at ChaosCheck out #gtchat on Twitter (shout out to Lisa Conrad, the #gtchat moderator)GTN Awareness Week with Marc Smolowitz This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit positivedisintegration.substack.com

In episode 31, Chris and Emma talked with Celi Trépanier, author, blogger, and parent, about the gifted community and the challenges of raising gifted kids and being a gifted adult. Together, we talk about the importance of friendships, connections, and support within the gifted community.Celi was Chris's first friend in the gifted world. Celi held space and supported Chris during those first years when she was studying the theory of positive disintegration and giftedness while trying to find a way forward in her work. Celi and Chris share their story and talk about the important role friendship plays in gifted journeys.We also addressed the disconnect between research and practice in gifted education, as well as the disconnect between teachers and parents. Misunderstandings about gifted children, the lack of awareness that this difference goes beyond an educational label, and the stereotypes about the gifted were all mentioned. It's clear from our conversation that giftedness doesn't always feel like a gift. We talked about bullying and its impact on children and the fact that there's bullying in adult spaces as well. However, we also talked about the importance of holding space within the gifted community. How we can support each other and help each other through “the muck of giftedness.” It's not easy for those of us who are sensitive to be vulnerable and share in online communities on social media, but we still find ways to be present for the people who need us. All three of us have provided mirrors to our audiences because we want to help others feel seen and understood. Links from this episodeCrushing Tall Poppies (Celi's website)Educating Your Gifted Child (Celi's book)Laughing at Chaos (Jen Merrill's website)If This is a Gift, Can I Send it Back? (Jen's book)You can read about Chris's autoethnography here and hereParents of Gifted and Twice-Exceptional Kids (Facebook group)SENGGHF LearnersAlabama Association of Gifted ChildrenTall Poppy Syndrome (Wikipedia)Celi's popular post that was mentioned: A Gifted Child Checklist for TeachersFollow us on social media:Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/positivedisintegrationpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/positivedisintegration_podcast/)Twitter (https://twitter.com/DabrowskiPod)Join the Adults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookJoin Dabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Community on FacebookPlease, consider supporting the podcast. Positive Disintegration is brought to you by the Dabrowski Center.Subscribe here for the Dabrowski Center's monthly newsletter and information about the 2024 Dabrowski Congress.If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!Thank you for listening to Positive Disintegration. Please share! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit positivedisintegration.substack.com

In episode 30, Chris and Emma were joined by Katy Higgins Lee, MFT, a therapist and clinical supervisor in private practice in Santa Rosa, California. She works with neurodivergent adults with a focus on giftedness and twice-exceptionality. This episode is our contribution to Neurodiversity Celebration Week.We learned about the terms neurodiversity and neurodivergence, and the appropriate application for individuals compared to groups. Katy talked about the way that neurodivergence can be either innate (e.g., ADHD, autism) or acquired (e.g., PTSD, traumatic brain injury).We asked Katy the question, Is giftedness a type of neurodivergence? We agreed with her that giftedness is more than an IQ score, and fits the definition of neurodivergence since this is an experience of reality that diverges from what can be considered typical. Asynchronous development was mentioned, which is a definition of giftedness from the Columbus Group that incorporates the overexcitabilities.Katy discussed being neurodiversity-affirming and non-pathologizing. We learned that we can view these differences as identities or neurotypes, rather than disorders or disadvantages.Neurodiversity-affirming means using identify-first language rather than person-first language. For instance, autistic person rather than person with autism. We also talked about not using functioning labels such as “high-functioning” vs “low-functioning” autism and instead considering differences in support needs.It's also critical to be trauma-informed and LGBTQ+-affirming. Katy said it's especially important to remember the need to be trans-affirming as part of a neurodiversity-affirmative practice because many neurodivergent people are also trans, nonbinary, or otherwise gender non-conforming.We discussed overexcitabilities being part of the gifted experience, and the autistic and ADHD experience, and how that wasn't clear from Katy's introduction to OEs in the gifted community. It's time to change the narrative and help the gifted world catch up—OEs are a part of the neurodivergent experience beyond the connection with giftedness.The term giftedness is losing credibility in the neurodiversity community partly due to OEs not being seen as types of neurodivergence, which can hinder people on their journey of self-discovery. It's not an either/or proposition of OE or ADHD (or autism). Missed identification of neurodivergence types in gifted individuals is a cause of trauma for many.We talked about the overlap between ADHD and autism, as well as the way that other differences seem closely connected such as giftedness, gender differences, Ehlers-Danos Syndrome, and OCD. We discussed how stereotypes about ADHD, autism, and giftedness, and even their names, have caused problems in understanding these experiences. Giftedness is a term with a lot of misconceptions, but it is an important difference to acknowledge and understand. Even though parents of gifted children are often gifted themselves, they don't necessarily see it in themselves or recognize its impact on their lives.Links for this episodeKaty's Tending Paths accounts on Facebook and Instagram.Katy's websiteDr. Nick Walker's websiteFollow us on social media:Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/positivedisintegrationpod)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/positivedisintegration_podcast/)Twitter (https://twitter.com/DabrowskiPod)Join the Adults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookPlease, consider supporting the podcast. Positive Disintegration is brought to you by the Dabrowski Center.If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit positivedisintegration.substack.com