Lesser-known form of OCD involving fewer compulsions
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Dillon Tucker is an actor and filmmaker who shares the challenges and advantages of his various iterations of OCD and shares his process for the movie, Pure O, which he wrote and directed.To find places to stream Pure O https://gooddeedentertainment.com/pure-o/Follow him on IG www.instagram.com/DillonTuckerIf you're interested in seeing or buying the furniture that Paul designs and makes follow his IG for his woodworking which is transitioning from @MIHHfurniture to its new handle @ShapedFurnitureWAYS TO HELP THE MIHH PODCASTSubscribe via Apple Podcasts (or whatever player you use). It costs nothing. It's extremely helpful to have your subscription set to download all episodes automatically. https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mental-illness-happy-hour/id427377900?mt=2Spread the word via social media. It costs nothing.Our website is www.mentalpod.com our FB is www.Facebook.com/mentalpod and our Twitter and Instagram are both @Mentalpod Become a much-needed Patreon monthly-donor (with occasional rewards) for as little as $1/month at www.Patreon.com/mentalpod Become a one-time or monthly donor via PayPal at https://mentalpod.com/donateYou can also donate via Zelle (make payment to mentalpod@gmail.com) To donate via Venmo make payment to @Mentalpod See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Start your true anxiety recovery journey with me today at TheAnxietyGuy.com. Podcast description: In this powerful episode of The Anxiety Guy Podcast, we dive deep into the hidden side of OCD and anxiety, the kind that loops obsessively through intrusive thoughts, health worries, and worst-case scenarios. If you've ever found yourself constantly checking bodily sensations, Googling symptoms, or living in a heightened state of fear about what might go wrong, this podcast episode is for you. Discover how OCD and anxiety are connected through mental loops, and how these patterns keep your brain stuck in survival mode. Most importantly, learn three holistic, natural strategies to start breaking free without relying on medication or endless reassurance. We'll cover: ✅ What mental OCD (Pure O) really looks like ✅ Why your brain fixates on symptoms and scary thoughts ✅ How to stop the anxiety loop through awareness, lifestyle, and trust ✅ Holistic healing for OCD and anxiety through nervous system safety, breathwork, and more ✅ How to live with uncertainty and reclaim your peace Whether you struggle with health anxiety, intrusive thoughts, or a constant need for control, this anxiety guy podcast episode will help you shift your mindset, calm your body, and begin healing from the inside out. *Please Share with A Support Group In Need Resources Mentioned: Emotional Freedom Techniques on The Anxiety Guy YouTube Channel Surrender Session Meditations on YouTube Health Anxiety University (Support Group) Don't forget to Subscribe on Apple Podcasts and leave a review if this anxiety guy podcast episode resonated with you!
In this eye-opening Q&A, licensed therapist Tracie Ibrahim dives deep into the realities of Pure O OCD — a lesser-known but deeply distressing form of obsessive-compulsive disorder. She answers the most common questions around intrusive thoughts, compulsions, diagnosis, and treatment, all with compassion and clarity. Whether you're struggling yourself or supporting someone who is, this conversation sheds light on what Pure O really is — and what healing can look like.If you're struggling with OCD, our NOCD therapists might be able to help. They are specially trained in ERP therapy — the most effective treatment against OCD. To learn about treatment options, book a free 15-minute call at https://learn.nocd.com/podcastFollow us on social media:https://www.instagram.com/treatmyocd/https://twitter.com/treatmyocdhttps://www.tiktok.com/@treatmyocd
With the Oscars Awards happening tonight, Hollywood is shining a light on mental health like never before. NOCD team members Brenna Posey dives into A Real Pain, the Jesse Eisenberg film nominated for an Academy Award, starring Eisenberg and Kieran Culkin. The film explores OCD and depression through a deeply personal lens, with Eisenberg drawing from his own struggles with OCD, anxiety, and depression. Brenna also highlights Turtles All the Way Down, based on John Green's novel, which delivers one of the most realistic depictions of OCD in film, and Pure O, a movie tackling the lesser-known but deeply impactful Pure O subtype. With Hollywood's biggest night upon us, it's exciting to see films that go beyond entertainment to bring awareness and understanding to real OCD struggles.If you are struggling with OCD, help is available. NOCD Therapists are specialty-trained in ERP therapy, the most proven treatment for OCD, to help you regain your life. Book a free 15-minute call to learn more about specialized treatment at https://learn.nocd.com/podcastFollow us on social media:https://www.instagram.com/treatmyocd/https://twitter.com/treatmyocdhttps://www.tiktok.com/@treatmyocd
Ever had disturbing, unwanted thoughts pop into your head out of nowhere? You're not alone. "Pure O" (Purely Obsessional OCD) is a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder that doesn't always come with visible compulsions—making it one of the most misunderstood mental health struggles. In this episode, we're diving into: What "Pure O" really is and how it differs from traditional OCD. The hidden toll of intrusive thoughts—why they feel so real and why you can't just "ignore" them. How shame and isolation make this condition even harder to recognize. What science says about intrusive thoughts and why having them doesn't mean anything is wrong with you. Practical strategies to stop spiraling and take back control. If you've ever struggled with intrusive thoughts that make you question yourself, this episode will give you clarity, relief, and tools to navigate them.
In this week's fascinating OCD episode, The Speakmans will answer:What is an OCD? Are we born with it? Could it be genetic? And if there is a cause, what is this, and how do you find it?The Speakmans explain the difference between OCD & Pure O, plus discuss why it is we carry out OCD behaviours, as well as sharing the various types of OCDs that they've encountered in their clinic.They question whether intrusive thoughts are in fact just thoughts; discussing the reason we have these, and the science behind them.The family share the reasons why OCD often accelerates with each passing year, the link between OCD & confirmation bias, and why the 'OCD' label often only makes things worse.Liv shares her own OCD behaviours displayed when she sat her exams, but also the science behind this ritual thought process. In this week's Science Corner, she also discusses the triggers that often make OCD behaviours manifest.Hunter shares his OCD exam time behaviours, whilst the family question if Eva's cleaning is a trait of OCD, or in fact just her high standards.Client case studies are discussed, with The Speakmans sharing their process used to cure OCD, in the hope this helps others who may too be struggling.This episode is filled with an abundance of incredibly helpful tips, and most of all, The Speakmans' absolute belief that everyone and anyone can overcome their OCD.
Understanding OCD and Anxiety: Navigating Intimacy with Sarah Hazleton In this episode we dive into the intricacies of OCD and anxiety, particularly focusing on how they affect intimacy and relationships, with guest Sarah Hazleton, a licensed clinical social worker. Sarah explains how OCD manifests through intrusive thoughts and compulsions, its impact on relationships, and the different subtypes of OCD including relationship OCD and Pure O. We discuss the importance of appropriate therapeutic approaches, like Exposure Response Prevention (ERP), and resources for those seeking help. The conversation touches on the stigma and shame surrounding OCD, particularly when it involves sexual and intimate thoughts. Practical advice is provided for those seeking therapy, including how to find qualified therapists through reliable sources. This episode is released in recognition of mental health awareness, emphasizing the significance of understanding and accepting diverse mental health challenges. Sarah is a Licensed Independent Clinical Social Worker specializing in treatment of OCD and anxiety related disorders. She completed her master’s degree at University of New England in 2007 and spent the early part of her career as a clinician working with children, adolescents, and families experiencing severe and persistent mental health challenges. Over recent years, Sarah has focused her therapy practice on the treatment of OCD and anxiety disorders using Exposure Response Prevention and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy as primary treatment modalities. Intimacy, gender, and sexuality are often interwoven in a client's obsessive and anxious thoughts, yet are often not identified by clients as a treatment issue. Sarah hopes to improve awareness of some of the "unspoken and taboo" thoughts and worries people experience. She wants to decrease the stigma felt by people whose OCD and/or anxiety is affecting their relationships, intimacy, and identity. You can find Sarah at www.hazeltoncounseling.com The article mentioned at the beginning - https://www.verywellmind.com/impact-of-ocd-on-sex-life-5086811 The International OCD Foundation - https://iocdf.org/ Here are some books recommended by Sarah and the IODCF. Buying them through these links will help support What Excites Us! Thank you! The Anti-Anxiety Program: A Workbook of Proven Strategies to Overcome Worry, Panic, and Phobias - Peter J. Norton (Author), Martin M. Antony (Author) - https://amzn.to/4eZWGyL Coping With OCD: Practical Strategies for Living Well With Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder - Bruce Hyman, PhD with Troy Dufrene - https://amzn.to/3zR8ch7 The OCD Answer Book: Professional Answers to More Than 250 Top Questions About Obsessive-Compulsive Disorderby Patrick B. McGrath, PhD - https://amzn.to/4eFf5kK "It'll be Okay:" How I Kept Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) from Ruining My Lifeby Shannon Shy - https://amzn.to/3XZQ6S5 Overcoming Unwanted Intrusive Thoughts: A CBT-Based Guide to Getting Over Frightening, Obsessive or Disturbing Thoughts - by Sally Winston, PsyD & Martin Seif, PhD - https://amzn.to/3zVtlGQ Chapters: 00:00 Introduction and Content Warning 03:05 Understanding OCD and Anxiety 12:16 Types of OCD 17:22 OCD's Impact on Relationships 21:24 Compulsions During Intimacy 25:09 Relationship OCD 32:43 Challenges Faced by Teens with OCD 36:35 Exposure Response Prevention (ERP) Explained 47:52 Resources for OCD Support 53:27 Finding the Right Therapist56:53 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Book your free session directly, visit: www.robertjamescoaching.com In episode 433 of The OCD and Anxiety Podcast, host Robert James delves into the misconceptions surrounding Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD). Many people misunderstand OCD, often reducing it to mere quirks about cleanliness or orderliness. Robert aims to dispel these myths and provide a clearer understanding of this complex mental health condition. Listeners will learn about various forms of OCD, such as Pure O, where compulsions are not physically visible, and sensory motor OCD, which can be difficult for outsiders to recognize. The episode also addresses the false notion that OCD is a personality choice or something one can easily "snap out of." Robert emphasizes that OCD exists on a spectrum and that effective strategies like Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) and Acceptance Commitment Therapy (ACT) can significantly aid in managing symptoms. By debunking these myths, the episode encourages listeners to challenge limiting beliefs about OCD and to explore viable treatment options. Disclaimer: Robert James Pizey (of Robert James Coaching) is not a medical professional and is also not providing therapy or medical treatment. Robert James Pizey recommends that anyone experiencing anxiety or OCD to seek professional medical help straight away to get a medical opinion and rule out other conditions or illnesses. The comments and opinions as written on this site are simply that and are not to be taken as professional medical opinions. Robert James Pizey provides coaching, education, accountability and peer support around Anxiety through his own personal experiences.
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Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Just Say Maybe Podcast!Today, I'm talking to Mystina Sol, a musician, songstress, and someone who has gone through and overcome what we call "Pure O," or, obsessions with internal compulsions. In this episode, we talk about Mystina's experiences with Sexual Orientation OCD, Relationship OCD, ADHD, and finally showing herself compassion.Follow Mystina and her music here: www.instagram.com/mystinasolFollow the Just Say Maybe Podcast IG here: www.instagram.com/justsaymaybepodcastDisclaimer: This podcast is not a replacement for therapy. Please seek professional help from a licensed clinician or therapist.
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Join your host, Nicole Morris, LMFT and Mental Health Correspondent, as she discussed Pure O! This controversial subtype has been discussed for many years, but what is it? Does it exist? And no matter what, what can be done to help? Come join us at the Water Cooler, fam, for quenchers like this all summer long!
Join Andrew and Jeff as they delve into the captivating world of indie filmmaking and mental health advocacy in their latest episode of Filmmaker Mixer. In this insightful conversation, Filmmaker Mixer sits down with the brilliant minds behind the acclaimed film 'Pure O' – the writer/director, Dillon Tucker, and lead actor, Daniel Dorr. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/filmmakermixer/message
In this week's episode, OCD Specialists Lauren Rosen, LMFT, and Kelley Franke, LMFT, speak with Dillon Tucker, director of the film Pure O.
Dr. Tatyana Mestechkina is a licensed clinical psychologist practicing in New York, New Jersey, and Florida. She is the founder and clinical director of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Better Living, which is also the approach she uses in treating patients, together with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. She specializes in treating OCD, even in the purely obsessional subtype (Pure-O), and anxiety disorders such as generalized, social, panic, health, and phobias. Her clients are often ones that face concerns related to perfectionism, body-image, mood challenges, and postpartum/perinatal issues. In this episode we talk about: ◾️ Processing thoughts and feelings when facing compulsions ◾️ Positively changing your relationship with your brain ◾️ Reframing emotions when resisting compulsions Find Tatyana here: @ocdanxietyexpert cbtforbetterliving.com Find Zach here: zachwesterbeck.com @zach_westerbeck Use promo code: ZACH https://www.restoredminds.com/offers/SrL78mUq?coupon_code=ZACH This podcast is made possible by NOCD. NOCD offers effective, affordable, and convenient OCD therapy. NOCD therapists are trained in Exposure Response Prevention, or ERP, therapy, the gold standard treatment for OCD. With NOCD, you can do virtual, live face-to-face video sessions with one of their licensed, specialty-trained therapists, and they accept most major insurance plans. If your insurance isn't covered, mention discount code ZACH100 for a special $100 rate for the next two months. To find out more about NOCD, visit zachwesterbeck.com/virtual-ocd-therapy/ to book a free 15-minute call. Zach Westerbeck is not a licensed medical professional. Zach Westerbeck is not trained in diagnosing psychological or medical conditions. Zach Westerbeck is not a substitute for medical care or medical advice. If you require assistance with any mental health or medical issue, please contact your health care provider for any medical care or medical advice. Zach Westerbeck makes no guarantees of any kind that the information or services provided by Zach Westerbeck will improve the client's situation. This podcast should not be considered medical advice. Please seek professional assistance from a licensed professional. Zach Westerbeck (https://zachwesterbeck.com/virtual-ocd-therapy/) Virtual OCD Therapy - Zach Westerbeck I've partnered with NOCD to bring you effective, affordable and convenient OCD therapy.
Cooper Ganz's (Daniel Dorr) seemingly perfect life quickly unravels when he is diagnosed with a crippling form of OCD called Pure Obsessional. This often-misunderstood illness forces him to question his identity and sanity, all while trying to keep it together for his fiancé, Emily (Hope Lauren) family, and co-workers. As he struggles to accept his disease, and the vulnerability that comes along with it, his world starts to open up. The addiction recovery clients he works with at a high-end Malibu drug rehab center return the favor and help Cooper through his darkest hour. Inspired by the filmmaker's own story, director / producer / writer / editor and songwriter Dillion Tucker joins us for a conversation on his own personal journey to tackle a litany of universal issues: grief, coming-of-age, addiction, redemption and the power of social connection. For more go to: gooddeedentertainment.com/pure-o
Lee Stobby is a producer, literary manager, and principal of Lee Stobby Entertainment who has over 10 years of management and producing experience. Some of his client highlights include: Shay Hatten (JOHN WICK: CHAPTER 3, JOHN WICK 4, ARMY OF THE DEAD, ARMY OF THIEVES), Kate Trefry (made the Black List in 2013 (PURE O) and 2016 (REVOLVER) who has an overall deal at Netflix and currently writes on STRANGER THINGS), Isaac Adamson (#1 Black List script BUBBLES), Rodney Ascher (ROOM 237, THE NIGHTMARE, A GLITCH IN THE MATRIX), and Myroslav Slaboshpytskiy (THE TRIBE). Stobby's producing credits include SISTER AIMEE, which premiered at the 2019 Sundance Film Festival; WILDLING starring Bel Powley, Liv Tyler and Brad Dourif and premiered at SXSW; as well as development set up with Matt Reeves' 6th and Idaho, Universal, and Netflix. twitter.com/LeeStobby Connect with your host Kaia Alexander: https://entertainmentbusinessleague.com/ https://twitter.com/thisiskaia Produced by Stuart W. Volkow P.G.A. Get career training and a free ebook “How to Pitch Anything in 1Min.” at www.EntertainmentBusinessLeague.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chris responds to a listener's question about the ever-popular topic, Pure-O. He highlights the concept of identifying compulsions; as Pure-Oers do compulsions, they just don't properly identify them. Feel free to reach out with any questions you might have to chrisleins04@gmail.com If you've OCD Straight Talk helpful, consider giving it a 5-star rating and subscribing to the podcast for more structured help with your anxiety- or OCD-symptoms.
If you are interested in stopping compulsions using attention control, this is the episode for you. I am really excited for this episode. This was a deep dive into really how to fine-tune your mindfulness practice for anxiety and OCD. Today we have the amazing Max Maisel, who is an OCD and anxiety specialist here in California. He came on to talk about these really nuanced differences of mindfulness, where we might go wrong with mindfulness, how we can get a deeper understanding of mindfulness, and this idea of attentional control. The real thing that I took away from this is how beneficial it can be at reducing mental compulsions, putting our attention on the things that we value, putting our attention on what we want to put attention on, not in a compulsive way at all. In fact, we addressed that throughout the episode, and it's just so, so good. I'm so grateful to you, Max, for coming on, and I just know you guys are going to love this episode. Now, we are talking about some pretty difficult things, like things that are hard to do. I even roleplayed and explained how hard it was for me to do it. I want, as you listen to this, for you to please practice an immense amount of self-compassion and recognition and acknowledgment of just how hard it is to do these practices and how we can always learn more. Hopefully, something in this episode clicks for you and feels very true for you and is hopefully very, very beneficial. I'm going to go take you straight to the show because that's what you're here for. Have a wonderful day everybody, and enjoy this interview with Max Maisel. Kimberley: Welcome. I am so excited for this episode, mainly because I actually think I'm going to leave learning a ton. We have the amazing Max Maisel here today. Welcome. Max: Thank you, Kim. It's really good to be here. I'm super excited for our conversation. MINDFULNESS FOR OCD Kimberley: Yeah. Okay. You know I use a lot of mindfulness. I am a huge diehard mindfulness fan, but I love that you have brought to us today, and hopefully will bring to us today, some ways in which we can drop deeper into that practice or zone in, or you might say a different word, like how to focus in on that. Tell me a little bit about how you conceptualize this practice of mindfulness and what you use to make it more effective for people with anxiety and OCD. Max: Yes, for sure. So, I'm a major proponent of mindfulness practices. I use it myself in my personal life. I integrate it in the clinical work that I do with clients with OCD and anxiety. But one of the concerns that I've seen in my clinical work is that mindfulness is such a broad concept and it covers so many different types of psychological suffering. The research behind mindfulness is just like hundreds, maybe even thousands of studies. But when it comes to very specific and nuanced concerns like OCD and anxiety, it could be a little bit confusing for people sometimes to figure out, “Well, how do I apply this really healthy, beautiful, amazing tool to how my own brain is wired in terms of like sticky thoughts or just to engage in all sorts of compulsive behaviors.” I like to think about mindfulness from Jon Kabat-Zinn's definition at the core—paying attention to the present moment in a way that's non-judgmental and with this curious intentionality to it. But then within that, there's some really nuanced details that we can talk more about how to make that really relevant to folks with OCD and anxiety. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ATTENTION & AWARENESS Kimberley: Tell me a little bit. When we're talking about mindfulness, we often talk about this idea of awareness. Can you differentiate first—and this is using some terminology just to set the scene—can you differentiate the difference between attention, awareness, and even a lot of people talk about distraction? Can you share a little bit about how they may be used and what they may look like? Max: I love that question. I think in a good OCD treatment, people really need to have a good solid understanding of those differences. I'm actually going to borrow from a neuroscientist named Amishi Jha. She's this incredible professor at the University of Miami. In her research lab, they look at the neurological underpinnings of mindfulness, and that very much includes attention and awareness. I highly encourage anybody to look up her work. Again, it's Amishi Jha. She talks about attention or focused attention. If you imagine there's a dark room, and if you turn on a flashlight and you shine that beam of light into that room and say that beam of light hits a vase on a table, again, what happens to that vase? What's different compared to all the things in the background? Kimberley: Is that a question for me? Max: Yeah. If you imagine a beam of light, what goes on with that? Kimberley: You would see the front of the vase, maybe it's a bit shiny, or you would see the shadow of the vase. You would see the colors of the vase. The texture of the vase. Max: That's exactly right. From this vivid and detailed, you can see all the different descriptions of it and it becomes privileged above everything else in the room. That vase is that beam of light. And then somebody might take that flashlight and shine it to the right a little bit, and then it goes from the vase, let's say, to a chair next to it. All of a sudden, that vase is still there, but it's fallen into the background. We might call that our awareness, which we'll talk about in a second. But then that table that we shine on or the chair is now privileged over the vase. That's how you can think about focused attention, is this beam of light. Whereas awareness, instead of a focused beam, you can think about that more as a broad floodlight where it's effortless, it's receptive, and you're noticing what is present in the moment without privileging one thing over the next. We're not focusing or hooked on anything particular in that room, it's just observing whatever comes up in the moment. Does that make sense? WHAT IS DISTRACTION? Kimberley: It totally makes sense. Excellent. What about distraction? Max: Distraction, when we think about that broad floodlight of awareness, where again, where what's privileges the present moment, distraction is trying to get things out of that. It's trying to suppress or not think about or get something that is in your awareness, outside of your awareness. But unfortunately, the trap that people fall into is in order to get something out of your awareness, what you need to do first is shine your beam of attention onto it. Inadvertently, while it might seem like a good idea in the short term, especially if it's something really scary, that pops up in your awareness like, “Oh, I don't want this. I want to get this thing out of my awareness.” But in doing that, you're literally shining your attention. That flashlight is right on the scary thing. The very act of trying to distract, trying to push it away actually keeps that thing going, which is why it can be so easy and so tricky to get stuck in these pretty severe OCD spirals by doing that. Kimberley: Right. If we were talking about mindfulness, and let's go back to that, are attention and awareness both parts of mindfulness? Give me how you would conceptualize that. Max: That's exactly right there, and that's what I was talking about where mindfulness is such a beautiful, helpful practice and term. But oftentimes when we say just mindfulness, people don't understand that there are really relevant parts of mindfulness that are actually applicable skills that we can practice getting really good and solid without shining that beam of light and focusing flexibly on aspects of our experience. We can get good at letting go of that focused attention and just being with what pops up in our awareness, which are very relevant practices when we have OCD or anxiety. But if we just say mindfulness as a whole, paying attention to the present moment, we could miss these really important nuances and actionable skills that are different parts of mindfulness. Kimberley: Let's go deeper into that. Let's say you have OCD or you have panic disorder, or you have a phobia, and your brain-- I was talking with my son who has anxiety and he was saying, “I keep having the thought. No matter how many happy thoughts I have, it just keeps thinking of the scary thought.” That's just a really simple example. How might you use attention versus awareness or attention and awareness for folks who are managing these really sticky thoughts, like you said, or these really repetitive, intrusive thoughts? Max: It's such a good question. OCD, I always talk about how clever and tricky it is. In order to get through OCD, we need to be even more clever, more tricky than OCD. One of the ways OCD gets people to fall into its trap is by confusing them. It gets people to try to control things that they cannot control, which is what pops up in their awareness, but it also blinds people and gets them that they can't see that there are things that are in their control. That will be really helpful, powerful tools, and OCD gums up the works a little bit. MINDFULNESS & ATTENTION TRAINING To be more specific, there's an aspect of mindfulness that we can think of as attentional training or attentional flexibility. What that is, it's strengthening up the brain's muscles to be able to take control of that flashlight, of that beam of focused attention. OCD, what it's going to do, it steals it from you and shines it on the really scary stuff, like with your son, “Oh, here's a thought that you really don't like,” or “Here's a really uncomfortable sensation.” All of a sudden, that beam of light is shining there. What attention training does, it really teaches people to be able to first notice, “Oh, my beam of light is on something really scary. Okay, this is a thing. This is a moment to practice now.” But then more importantly, to be able to then take power back and be able to shine that flashlight in flexible ways that are in line with people's values and goals versus are in line with OCD's agenda. But attention training, it's not only getting really good and powerful at shining that beam of light on what you want to shine, but it's also the practice of letting go of control over the stuff that's in our awareness. We're going to practice and allow those scary thoughts and feelings. I treat them like a car alarm going off where it might be annoying, might be uncomfortable, but I'm not going to focus on them. I'm not going to pay attention to it, because otherwise there's going to be front and center. It's both. It's awareness, it's being able to flexibly shift between different aspects of our experience, and it's also allowing things to go, and you're like that broader floodlight of awareness. I always find it really helpful to practice the skill of attention training on non-OCD, non-anxiety neutral stimuli. It's not too triggering. And then we can start applying that to anxiety. If it's okay with you, Kim, I would love to walk you through some quirky little easy exercises that just help you maybe understand what I'm talking about and hopefully your listeners as well. Kimberley: I was just going to say, let's do it. Max: Let's do it. Let's dive in. Kimberley: Let's roleplay this. ATTENTION TRAINING EXERCISE Max: Okay. I want you to roleplay with me and if your listeners would like to roleplay as well, more than happy to follow along too. Again, these exercises, I don't see them as like coping skills. I see them as like creating an understanding of what we can control, what we can't control, and being able to just feel what that's like in our bodies and know that this is something that we can do. For the first one, what I want you to do is put your thumb and index finger together, like you're making an okay sign. Put a little bit of pressure between your thumb and index finger, but not a whole lot of pressure. Just take a couple of seconds and see if you can put your brain into your thumb and your index finger and just notice what that feels like. Notice the sensations. Let me know when you feel like you've got a good sense of the feeling. Kimberley: Yep, I got it. Max: What I want you to try to do is shine that beam of attention. Really focus in on the pressure only from your index finger and see if you cannot think about not engage in the pressure from your thumb, allowing that to be there. See if you can really find and identify what your index finger feels like. let me know when you've got that. Again, not thinking about your thumb, just focusing on your index finger. Kimberley: Yeah, that was hard, but I got it. Max: It is hard, right? Because what we're doing is honing in that beam of light that we're paying attention to. What I want you to do now is switch. Let your index finger, let that feeling go, and switch to your thumb. Again, only focusing on the pressure from your thumb and allowing your index finger, allowing that pressure to be there without thinking about it or controlling it. Just letting it exist, and then focusing on the pressure from your thumb. Kimberley: Yeah, I got it. Max: We could do this for five, ten minutes. I won't make you do it right now, but you can see there and there's like a bump. There's a shift where you go from one to the other. It's great. It's not about getting into details, it's about noticing, “Oh, I can pay attention flexibly. I can focus on my index finger, allow the thumb feeling to be, and then I can switch to the opposite side.” That's one way that people can start understanding what I'm talking about, where we can flexibly pay attention while allowing other stuff to exist in the background. Kimberley: Let me bring up my own personal experience here because, like I said, I'm here to learn. As I was pushing, I actually had some pain in my thumb. As I was trying to imagine the top finger, that index finger, that was really hard because I have a little bit of ligament pain in my thumb. I had to work really hard to think about it. What was actually getting in the way was the thoughts of, “I won't be able to do this because of the pain.” What are your thoughts on people who are fighting that? Max: It's such an important piece of this because oftentimes what prevents people from practicing are these thoughts and beliefs that pop up. The belief of, “I have no control over rumination,” or “I cannot pay attention.” I'm saying this, and where we're stepping back and noticing these are thoughts, these are stories as well. Part of the practice is, can I see them as events of the mind? Can I see them as stories? Allow them to be in the background, just like we're maybe allowing the sensation of your index finger to be in the background while maintaining focus on that one part of your experience, your thumb. Again, we want to treat pain, thoughts, feelings, sensations as best as we can, allowing them, seeing them as mental events versus as distinct parts of who you are as a person while maintaining as best as you can that focused beam of attention on what you choose to. Kimberley: Right. This is really cool. Just so I understand this, but please don't be afraid to tell me I've got it completely wrong. As I was doing it, I was noticing the top of my index finger, doing my best, and in my awareness was the thoughts I had and the pain that I had. My attention was on the top, but there was some background awareness of all the other noise. Is that what you're saying? Max: That's exactly what I'm saying. The trick with OCD or anxiety is, can we allow the stuff in the background? Because a lot of people get annoyed or frustrated. And then as soon as you do that, that focus goes from your index finger to the stuff that you don't want versus if we can let go of control. Another way to think about it too is if you're looking out of a window. Focused attention would be, you are immensely engaging in this beautiful oak tree in your front yard. I don't have an oak tree, but hopefully, somebody does. Imagine you're really focusing on this oak tree, and that is what you're paying attention to. Now, there might be other things that come and go. There might be birds flying and bushes in the background. There might be houses and a bunny rabbit running by. You could choose to then shift your beam of light from the tree to one of those things, but you don't have to. You can keep paying attention to the tree and allowing all this other stuff to exist. That would be what we're talking about and that's the practice you could do with your fingers. And then with that same metaphor, broader just overall awareness would be looking out the window, but not intentionally focused on anything. Just letting your eyes wander to whatever is present. “Oh, I notice the tree and I notice a cloud and I notice a bird. Oh, I noticed a thought that I've been looking out this window for a very long time.” We're not questioning, we're not ruminating, we're not judging, we're just simply being there with what's present. That's that broader awareness piece to this. Kimberley: Okay. I love it. For those who have probably heard me talk about this, but not using this language, or are completely new and this is the first time I've ever logged in and listened to us, how may they apply this to specific intrusive thoughts that they're having? Can you walk us through a real example of this? You could use my son if you want, or an actual case of yours or whatever. Max: Yeah, for sure. If we think about it in this way, also, it's like a little bit of a different approach than maybe how some people think about exposure and response prevention. Because in this way of doing things, there's a really hard emphasis on the response prevention piece, which in this case would be not ruminating, not engaging in the mental compulsions. It's doing the exposure, which is triggering the scary thoughts and the feelings, and then accessing awareness mode, like being with what's present. An example of that, let's just say somebody has an intrusive thought, a really scary fear that they might hurt somebody. They might be a serial killer or they might do something really bad. Let's say we want to do an exposure with that thought and we choose a triggering thought of, “I am a murderer.” Normally, when they have that thought, they do all this stuff. Their focused attention is on that thought, and they're trying to convince themselves they're not a murderer. They're trying to maybe look for evidence. “Did I kill somebody? I did not.” They're engaging in this thought, doing all this sort of stuff that OCD wants them to. One way that we might use this difference in attention awareness, doing exposure would be to first evoke the scary thought. Maybe really telling themselves for a couple of seconds like, “I am a murderer. I am a murderer, sitting with the fear and the dread and all the stuff that comes up.” But then instead of focusing on it, then letting go of any engagement. We could just sit there and actually do nothing at all. We just watch and observe. Like you're looking out that window and that thought “I'm a murderer” might pop up, it might go away. Another thought might pop up. But we want to take this stance of, “None of my business.” We're going to sit here, we're going to observe, and we're not going to mentally engage in the thoughts. It's really accessing this more of like awareness mode. We can actually do something like that. If you want to, Kim, we don't have to use an intrusive thought, but we can, again, practice with a neutral thought together and then apply what I'm talking about. Usually, what people realize is that what happens to their intrusive thoughts is what happens to 99.9% of all the thoughts they get in a day where it comes and then it just goes away when it's ready. If you think about it, we have thousands and thousands of thoughts per day. Mostly that's what happens because we're not focusing our beam of light on it, because we're not doing all this work that inadvertently keeps it around. It's exposure not only to sit with the feelings, but to practice the skill of letting go, of focusing on it, of letting go of any mental compulsive behaviors towards it. ATTENTION TRAINING VS DISTRACTON Kimberley: Right. I know this is going to be a question for people, so I'm going to ask it. How does attention training differ from distraction? Quite often, I will get really quite distressed messages from people saying, “But wait, if I'm being mindful on the tree, isn't that me distracting against my thoughts?” Can you talk about, again, differentiating this practice with distraction or avoidance? Max: Yep, absolutely. I like to think about it as an attitude that people take where we're willing to have whatever our brain pops up at us. With distraction, we're unwilling. We don't want it, we don't like it, we're turning away from it. But that's actually like, it's okay too. We call it distraction, we can call it engagement. It's okay to live your life to do stuff, but we have to first get really clear on, can I allow whatever my brain pops up to be there without then keeping that beam of attention on it? Because all mental rituals, all sorts of stuff that we do starts with focused attention. Summons, rituals are pure retention, but a lot of them like analyzing, reassurance, attention is a major part of them. If you can notice when our OCD took that beam of light and shined it, then we could practice taking the light off, allowing it to exist, allowing it to be there, but without engaging. If you want, Kim, I'm happy to maybe do another experiential exercise, not to throw too many at you today. Kimberley: No, bring it on. Max: So maybe you and your listeners can understand that piece to it. Kimberley: Yes, please. ATTENTION TRAINING EXERCISE #2 Max: Okay. Lets start with attention training exercise #2. What we're going to do is we're going to practice engaging in what we might think of as a rumination, analytical way of thinking. Again, rumination, mental compulsions, they are a behavior. They're a mental action that we're taking that we could turn on, but we can also turn off. We want to be able to turn off mental compulsions throughout the rumination, but allow any thoughts and feelings to exist without doing anything about them. I know it sounds heavy, so let me show you what I mean by that. Kimberley: Good. Max: What I want you to do is think about a vacation or a trip that you either have coming up, or it might be like a dream vacation that you really want to take, and just take a second and let me know when you got something in mind. Kimberley: I got it. Max: You got it. That was quick. That was a good thing. What I want you to do is start mentally planning out the itinerary for this vacation, thinking about what you're going to do, all the steps you're going to take, just like doing it in your mind. And then I'll tell you when to stop. Okay. Stop. Now what I want you to do is let go of that engaging analytic way of thinking and just sit here for a couple of seconds. We're not going to do really anything. If the idea of the vacation pops up in your mind, I want you to allow it to pop up. But don't think about it, don't focus on it. Allow it to be there or not to be there. Just don't do what you were just doing where you're actually actively thinking about it. Are you ready? Kimberley: Mm-hmm. Max: Okay. Again, we're just going to sit and we're going to observe. Whatever comes up, comes up. We're going to let it hover and float in your overall awareness without focusing on it. Waves washing on the beach or just letting your thoughts and feelings come and go. We're not engaging, we're not thinking about them. We're just observing. What I want you to do one last time, I want you to start thinking again, planning, going through the itinerary, thinking all the cool stuff you're going to do. As you're doing it, notice what that feels like psychologically to go from not doing to doing. And then start thinking about it, and I'll let you know when to stop again. All right. We can let go of the vacation. Again, just for five, ten seconds sitting. If the thought pops up, allow it to pop up, but don't engage in it. Don't manipulate it or actively walk through the itinerary again. Just notice what that's like. Okay, Kim. I'd love to hear your experience walking through, turning it on the analytical way of thinking, and then turning it off and playing around with it a little bit. Kimberley: Okay. Number one, I immediately was able to go into planning. I think because I do this, this is actually one of the things I do at bedtime. I've planned my 91st birthday, my 92nd birthday party. That's what I love to do, so it was very easy for me to go into that. When I went back to more awareness of just what I noticed, I was actually able to do it really easily except of the thought like, “Oh, I hope I don't have the thought. I hope I'm doing this right.” Max: That's such a beautiful way, and the mind is going to do stuff like that. We're going to start thinking about thinking, and I'm curious how you respond to that thought. What you did next? Kimberley: I was just like, “Maybe I will, maybe I won't. What else?” And then I was like, “Well, there's Max and there's my microphone.” That was the work. Max: Yes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. We're not like, “Don't think about this vacation.” Because if we did that, what do you think that would do to you if you're just sitting there in that moment of awareness and be like, “This is not a good thought to have, I can't think about this upcoming vacation”? Kimberley: Well, I had more of them and I had distress about them. Max: Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean by we're not distracting, we're allowing, but we're also not analytically thinking about it. Now that we're talking about this, I think this is a really important piece on where mindfulness can get maybe especially confusing or even contradictory for people. Again, to preface this, I'm a huge mindfulness advocate and fan, but one of the issues about mindfulness for OCD, in particular, is that mindfulness is really in a lot of ways teaching it, it's about coming back to the present moment. I'm going to focus on my breath. I'm going to refocus to my body. I'm going to ground myself. Again, overall very healthy things to do, we should practice that. But the problem about that is if applied directly to OCD mental compulsions—and again, just to be really clear by mental compulsions, I'm talking about anything that people do to try to feel better, cope with, resolve a scary, intrusive thought. Kim, your six-part series, let's say, on mental compulsions that you did is one of the best OCD contents I've ever seen. I think everybody should go back and listen to that, whether you have OCD or not. So, all this mental stuff that we do in response to a scary thought. Mindfulness can be really helpful in noticing when we get caught up and again, like flexibly shifting. But at the end of the day, sufferers of OCD really need to understand that you don't need to focus onto the present moment to stop doing mental compulsions. Because it's analytical, it's a behavior, it's a way of thinking. Just like you did, we can simply turn it on and then we can turn it off. Now, I don't mean to say it's as easy as just don't do it. Obviously, it's not the case. This is complex stuff. There's so many psychological factors that lead people to ruminate and to do compulsions, but it's a simple idea. People need a foundation to understand that mental compulsions are a behavior that we have a lot more agency over than your OCD wants you to think. I like to think about when you look at more traditional, like contamination OCD, people might wash their hands a lot. It's the same thing where there's the behavior of washing your hands that you could do or you cannot do. Now there's entire treatment protocols helping people chip away at that to not wash their hands, so it's not just like, “Don't wash your hands.” But people understand that the goal of this treatment is to, “I'm washing my hands too much and now I'm not washing my hands.” If you apply the same mindful logic to rumination, it would be like, “Oh, we're going to wash your hands, but you cannot wash your hands. You're just going to have to use wet wipes forever.” It's like, oh, I'll get maybe a step in the right direction. But people need to know that the goal here is to not wash your hands. Just like with more Pure O rumination type of OCD, the goal is to learn how to not ruminate. Learn how to step out of that. Kimberley: Yeah. I think you had said somewhere along the way that it's a training. It's a training that we do. What's interesting for me, I'll use this as solely example, is I am in the process of training myself to do what I call deep work, because I have two businesses, things are chaotic, and I can get messages all the time. When I sit down to do something, I'm being pinged on my phone and called on my computer and email bells, so I'm training myself to focus on doing the thing I'm doing and not give my attention to the dinging of the phone and so forth as a training. I'm trying to train myself to be able to go longer, longer, longer periods and hold my attention, which at the beginning, my attention, I could really only do like 15 minutes of that and it felt like my brain was going to explode. Would you say that this is a similar practice in that we're slowly training our brain to be able to hold attention and awareness at the same time and increase it over time? Max: Yeah, absolutely. I think everything with OCD and anxiety is a process. First, it takes awareness, and that's where mindfulness can be so helpful, where the practice of mindfulness is about being more aware. “I'm aware, I'm ruminating. I'm aware of that. I'm doing some sort of compulsion.” That itself could take a very long time. I think it's all about baby steps. Now, I will say though, Kim, some people, when I explain them these differences and they're able to really feel what it's like to be ruminating, what it's like not—some people click and they can do it really fast. They're like, “Oh my gosh. I had no idea that this is something I was doing.” Some people, it takes a very long time and there's a spectrum. I think everybody always needs to go at their own pace and some people are just going to need to work at it harder. Some people, it's going to come really easy and natural. There's no right or wrong way to do it. These are principles that live in the ERP lifestyle. We want to start taking little baby steps as much as we can. Kimberley: Right. For those listening and for me too, where it clicked for them, what was the shift for them specifically? Max: The shift was understanding that while it felt like rumination—again, a lot of this is like, think about OCD, there's this big unsolvable problem and they're trying to solve it. They're analyzing it, they're paying attention to it, they're focusing on it, they're thinking about it, for them to really feel that, “This is something that I am doing. I know there's reasons why I'm doing it, there's beliefs I have about the utility of ruminating, including beliefs that I can't control this, when really, we can't control it. Beliefs about how helpful it is.” There's a lot of reasons why people do that, but to recognize, “Oh my gosh, this is a thing that's a lot more in my control than I thought.” When they experience that stepping back and allowing their brain to throw out whatever it does without having to engage with it, game changer. Also, in terms of classic mindfulness, think about mindfulness of breath. The instructions generally are, we're going to focus on, say the breath, the rise and fall of my belly. My attention goes, I'm going to come back to it. I think if we do that with a very specific intention, it could be so relevant and so helpful for OCD. That intention is seeing your brain as a little puppy dog. When you have OCD, that puppy dog is full of energy. OCD is like this mean bully that's thrown a tennis ball and getting that puppy dog to go. What mindfulness of breath can teach you, if we're aware of this, we go into it like, “This is what I'm going to work on. This is how my OCD is getting me—it's getting me to follow these lines of thought.” When you're there sitting on your breath to be able to notice where your thought goes, be able to look at it, “None of my business. Come back to my breath.” To me, Kim, that is actually exposure and response prevention. You expose yourself to discomfort of not following the thought, which is really hard. For people with OCD, without OCD, that's hard to do, but like you said, that is absolutely a skill that people can get better at. STOPPING COMPULSIONS WITH ATTENTION TRAINING Kimberley: Yeah, and it's response prevention. It's the core of that. Okay, I love this. I love this. Now, as we wrap up, is there anything that you feel we haven't covered here that will bring us home and dial this in for those who are hearing this for the first time or have struggled with this in the past? Max: I think we did a pretty good job. I mean, it's very nuanced stuff. I like to see this for people that feel like their OCD is well enough managed, but there's still work to go. This is like icing on the cake. Let's really look at the nitty-gritty of how this works. Or if people are feeling really stuck and they're not knowing why, hopefully, this can shine a light on some of these less talked about principles that are really important. But I guess the one final thing, going all the way back to Amishi Jha and her neurological research on mindfulness, really fascinating studies out of her lab show that 50% of the time, 50% of her waking day, people are not aware. They're not aware of what's going on, which means 50% of this podcast, people aren't going to be paying attention to. We can't take offense to that because it's 50% of any podcast. When you have that coupled with OCD's tendency to steal that beam of focused attention on scary stuff, it can be so devastating and so stuck for people. Hopefully, some of the stuff can give a sense of what we do about that and how we can start making moves against anxiety and OCD. Kimberley: Yeah, and compassion every step of the way. Max: Oh my gosh. I think everything needs to be done, peppered with compassion. Or maybe peppered is too level like in the context of full radical compassion. That's such an important part of all of this work. Kimberley: Yeah, because it's true. I mean, even myself who has a pretty good mindfulness practice, I was even surprised how much of mine was like, “Am I doing this right? What if I don't do it right? Will this work? How will it help me?” All of the things. I think that everyone's background noise, like you said, is very normal. I so appreciate you bringing this to the conversation, because again, I talk about mindfulness a lot. One other thing is, I will say when, let's say, someone has a somatic obsession or they have panic, and so they're having a lot of physical sensations. When you say “Come to the present,” they're like, “But the present sucks. I don't want to be here in the present.” What are your thoughts on that? Max: Somatic OCD and panic, I think out of any themes or content when it comes to awareness and attention, those are the most relevant. If you think about somatic OCD, where people come obsessed about different parts of their perceptual experience, it's all about people trying to not be aware of things that they can't control, and then therefore they're aware of it all the time. I think this is especially spot on for those. It's helpful for all forms of anxiety, but that in particular, that's going to be-- we tend to not do exposures by hyper-focusing on what they're afraid of because that's compulsive. That's we're focusing on controlling more. This process should be effortless. When we're ruminating, when we're compulsing or paying attention, that's like you're on the treadmill. You're doing work, and just hopefully, people experience some of these exercises, all we're doing is getting off the treadmill. We want to be doing less, if anything. OCD is making you work for it. It's making you do stuff. We want to identify that and do a whole lot less. And then you'll forget about it usually until you don't. It's like, “Oh crap, here it is again.” And then, “Okay, cool. I just practiced. Let me do it again,” until it loses power more fully. Kimberley: Yeah. I so appreciate you. Tell us what people can hear about you. Max: I run a practice in Redondo Beach. We're called Beachfront Anxiety Specialists. We have our website. Again, my name's Max Maisel, and people can feel free to Google us and reach out at any time. Kimberley: Amazing. Thank you. We'll have all of your links in the show notes. I'm really, truly grateful. Thank you for coming on and talking about this. It is so nuanced, but so important. As I say to my patients, I could say it 10 times and sometimes you need to hear a similar thing in a different way for it to click. I'm so grateful. Hopefully, this has been really revolutionary for other people to hear it from a different perspective. I'm so grateful for your time. Max: Thank you. It's such a privilege to be here with you and your listeners and I really appreciate you having me on today. Kimberley: Thank you.
Book your free session directly, visit: www.robertjamescoaching.com Want to support the podcast in return for exclusive content and more access to me? Check out my Patreon tiers, any help is much appreciated :) www.patreon.com/user?u=88044382 Today I chat with OCD specialist Paul Mc Carroll about Pure O. Paul Mc Carroll is an Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and anxiety specialist, therapist, and mental health trainer from Belfast, Ireland. As someone who once struggled greatly with OCD, Paul's story is unique: he now works as a mental health trainer in the hospital in which he was once a patient. He uses his story to inspire hope, reaffirm that recovery is possible, and help clients to stop struggling and start living. Finally, Paul is also active on Instagram and more recently- ‘YouTube' where he talks about ways we can keep ourselves well. To get in touch with Paul you can find him on Instagram @befreefromocd or you can check out his website www.befreefromocd.com Disclaimer: Robert James Pizey (of Robert James Coaching) is not a medical professional and is also not providing therapy or medical treatment. Robert James Pizey recommends that anyone experiencing anxiety or OCD to seek professional medical help straight away to get a medical opinion and rule out other conditions or illnesses. The comments and opinions as written on this site are simply that and are not to be taken as professional medical opinions. Robert James Pizey provides coaching, education, accountability and peer support around Anxiety through his own personal experiences.
Welcome back to our deep dive into creating ERP tasks, where we're continuing to explore the ways you can get creative in treatment, regardless of the presentation or the subtype. In this episode, we're exploring different ways to create ERP tasks in the context of pure OCD, and paedophilic OCD. We'll share the ways to help your clients interrupt mental compulsions, as well as how to create safe and appropriate tasks for managing paedophilic intrusive thoughts. Plus, we'll share how you can take the learnings from these subtypes, and apply them to creating ERP tasks in any context. This episode is part two of our two-part chat about how to create ERP tasks. Check out our previous episode, to hear us break down the foundations of creating ERP tasks, and the importance of collaboration and creativity in this process. Connect: https://www.melbournewellbeinggroup.com.au/ http://www.drcelingelgec.com.au/ This show is produced in collaboration with Wavelength Creative. Visit wavelengthcreative.com for more information.
In this episode, I discuss one of the most common rituals and safety behaviors in OCD and anxiety: mental review. While we all engage in the process of mentally reviewing old conversations and past events from time to time, when you have OCD and anxiety, this process can feel uncontrollable and lead to significant impairment and distress. I also talk about.. Examples of mental review and why giving into this behavior actually makes your OCD and anxiety worse over time What to do instead of mentally reviewing and how to become more aware of it in the moment Quick tips and strategies to feel overall more in control of your compulsions, even mental ones Like this episode? Check out some of my similar content: Podcast: What is "Pure O" and does it exist? Podcast: How to Sit With Uncertainty for OCD? Blog: 2 Sneaky Compulsions You are Probably Doing Check out my website at www.jennaoverbaughlpc.com Find me on Instagram and TikTok @jenna.overbaugh Browse my masterclasses here. Click here to sign up for my free email newsletter and download your instant recovery PDF (https://www.jennaoverbaughlpc.com/freebie) Remember: this podcast is for informational purposes only and may not be the best fit for you and your personal situation. It shall not be construed as mental health or medical advice. The information and education provided here is not intended or implied to supplement or replace professional advice of your own professional mental health or medical treatment, advice, and/or diagnosis. Always check with your own physician or medical or mental health professional before trying or implementing any information read here. I am not acting as your therapist or mental health professional and this is not therapeutic advice. My goal is to provide you with options, resources, and information to make an informed decision regarding your mental health. © 2023 Jenna Overbaugh, LLC
Dr. Max Maisel stops by the No Supervision podcast to discuss Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and Pure O website: beachfrontanxiety.com email: max@beachfrontanxiety.com IG: @cubepsych cubepsych.com IG: seenpsychiatry seenpsychiatry.com
Dr. Maisel is a clinical psychologist and the founder of Beachfront Anxiety Specialists in Redondo Beach. Dr. Maisel has been treating anxiety disorders and OCD for 8 years using exposure and response prevention and acceptance and commitment therapy. He works with children, teens, and adults and has a sub-specialty in treating tics/Tourette's syndrome and body focused repetitive behaviors. In addition to his practice, Dr. Maisel is passionate about providing workshops on using evidence based interventions in clinical practice to local doctoral programs. He also does contract work for several boutique residential treatment centers providing adjunct exposure therapy for clients needing more targeting OCD treatment. Beachfront Anxiety Specialists ------ LinkedIn
In this episode of Carolyn Talk..., I speak with writer, director, editor, and musician, Dillion Tucker about his debut feature film PURE O, about the debilitating symptoms of Pure Obsessive Compulsion Disorder, and the path to healing. The film stars accomplished theatre actors Daniel Dorr (20th Century Woman) and Hope Lauren (CW's The Republic of Sarah)To Learn more about #PureO which had it's premiere at #SXSW23 and Dillion's work, visit the film's official Instagram page at https://www.instagram.com/pure_o_movie/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3DFollow me on Twitter, Instagram and TikTok at: @CarrieCnh12My live-tweet hashtags: #DramasWithCarrie #SaturdayNightSciFi #SHWHLinks to my published writing, and podcasts; So Here's What Happened!, Beyond The Romance, Carolyn Talks...: https://authory.com/CarolynHinds Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In this episode, we are talking about the emotional toll of OCD. Kim: Welcome back, everybody. This week is going to include three of some of my most favorite people on this entire planet. We have the amazing Chris Trondsen, Alegra Kastens, and Jessica Serber—all dear friends of mine—on the podcast. This is the first time I've done an episode with more than one guest. Now, this was actually a presentation that the four of us did at multiple IOCDF conferences. It was a highly requested topic. We were talking a lot about trauma and OCD, shame and OCD, the stigma of OCD, guilt and OCD, and the depression and grief that goes with OCD. After we presented it, it actually got accepted to multiple different conferences, so we all agreed, after doing it multiple times and having such an amazing turnout, that we should re-record the entire conversation and have it on the podcast. I'm so grateful for the three of them. They all actually join me on Super Bowl Sunday—I might add—to record this episode. I am going to really encourage you to drop down into your vulnerable self and listen to what they have to say, and note the validation and acknowledgment that they give throughout the episode. It is a deep breath. That's what this episode is. Before we get into this show, let me just remind you again that we are recording live the Overcoming Depression course this weekend. On March 11th, March 18th, and March 25th, at 9:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, I will be recording the Overcoming Depression course. I am doing it live this time. If you're interested in coming on live as I record it, you can ask your questions, you can work along with me. There'll be workbooks. I'll be giving you a lot of strategies and a lot of tools to help you overcome depression. If you're interested, go to CBTSchool.com/depression. We will be meeting again, three dates in March, starting tomorrow, the 11th of March, at 9:00 AM Pacific Time. You will need to sign up ahead of time. But if for any reason you miss one of them, you can watch the replay. The replays will be uploaded. You'll have unlimited on-demand access to any of them. You'll get to hear me answering people's questions. This is the first time I've ever recorded a course live. I really felt it was so important to do it live because I knew people would have questions and I wanted to address them step by step in a manageable, bite-sized way. Again, CBTSchool.com/depression, and I will see you there. Let's get over to this incredible episode. Again, thank you, Chris Trondsen. Thank you, Alegra Kastens. Thank you, Jessica Serber. It is an honor to call you my friend and my colleague. Enjoy everybody. Kim: Welcome. This has been long, long. I've been waiting so long to do this and I'm so thrilled. This is my first time having multiple guests at once. I have three amazing guests. I'm going to let them introduce themselves. Jessica, would you like to go first? Jessica: I'm Jessica Serber. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, and I have a practice specializing in the treatment of OCD and related anxiety and obsessive-compulsive spectrum disorders in Los Angeles. I'm super passionate about working with OCD because my sister has OCD and I saw her get her life back through treatment. So, I have so much hope for everyone in this treatment process. Kim: Fantastic. So happy to have you. Chris? Chris: Hi everyone. My name is Chris Trondsen. I am also a licensed marriage family therapist here in Orange County, California at a private group practice. Besides being a therapist, I also have OCD myself and body dysmorphic disorder, both of which I specialize in treatment. Because of that, I'm passionate about advocacy. I am one of the lead advocates for the International OCD Foundation, as well as on their board and the board of OCD Southern California, as well as some leadership on some of their special interest groups. Kind of full circle for me, have OCD and now treat it. Kim: Amazing. Alegra? Alegra: My name is Alegra Kastens and I am a licensed therapist in the states of California and New York. I'm the founder of the Center for OCD, Anxiety and Eating Disorders. Like Chris, I have lived experience with OCD, anxiety, eating disorders, and basically everything, so I'm very passionate. We got a lot going on up here. I'm really passionate about treating OCD, educating, advocating for the disorder, and that is what propelled me to pursue a career as a therapist and then also to build my online platform, @obsessivelyeverafter on Instagram. GRIEF AND OCD Kim: Amazing. We have done this presentation before, actually, multiple times over the years. I feel like an area that I want to drop into as deeply as we can today to really look at the emotional toll of having and experiencing and recovering from OCD. We're going to have a real conversation style here. But first, we'll follow the format that we've used in the past. Let's first talk about grief and OCD because I think that that seems to be a lot of the reason we all came together to present on this. Alegra, would you talk specifically about some of the losses that result from having OCD? I know this actually was inspired by an Instagram post that you had put out on Instagram, so do you want to share a little bit about what those emotional losses are? Alegra: For sure. I think that number one, what a lot of people with OCD experience is what feels like a loss of identity. When OCD really attacks your values, attacks your core as a human being, whether it's pedophile obsession, sexual orientation obsessions, harm obsessions, you really start to grieve the person that you once thought you were. Of course, nothing has actually changed about you, but because of OCD, it really feels like it has. In addition to identity, there's lost relationships, there's lost time, lost experiences. For me, I dropped out of my bachelor's degree and I didn't get the four years of undergrad that a lot of people experienced. I mean, living with OCD is one of the most debilitating, difficult things to do. And that means, if you're fighting this battle and trying to survive, you probably are missing out on life and developmental milestones. Kim: Right. Was that the case for you too, Chris? Chris: Yeah. I actually host a free support group for families and one of the persons with OCD was speaking yesterday talking about how having OCD was single-handedly the most negatively impactful experience in his life. He is dealt with a lot of loss. I feel the same way. It's just not something you could shake off and recover from in the sense of just pretending nothing happened. I know for me, the grief was hard. I mean, I had mapped out what I thought my life was going to look like. I think my first stage of grief, because I think it became two stages, my first, like Alegra said, was about the loss. I always wanted to go to college and be around people in my senior year, like make friends and things like that. It's just my life became smaller and smaller. I became housebound. I missed out on normal activities, and six years of my life were pretty much spent alone. I think what Alegra also alluded to, which was the second layer of grief, was less about the things that I lost, but who I became. I didn't recognize myself in those years with OCD. I think it's hard to explain to somebody else what it's like to literally not live as yourself. I let things happen to me or I did things that I would never do in the mind state that I am in now. I was always such a brave and go-for-it kind of person and confident and I just became a shell of myself. I grieve a lot of the years lost, a lot of the things I always wanted to do, and places I wanted to go. And then I grieve the person I became because it was nothing I ever thought I could become. Kim: Jessica, will you speak also to just the events that people miss out on? I don't know if you want to speak about what you see with your clients or even with your sibling, like just the milestones that they missed and the events they missed. Jessica: Yeah, absolutely. My sister was really struggling the most with her OCD during middle school and high school. Those are such formative years, to begin with. I would say, she was on the fortunate end of the spectrum of being diagnosed relatively early on in her life. I mean, she definitely had symptoms from a very, very young age, but still, getting that diagnosis in middle school is so much before a lot of people get that. I mean, I work with people who aren't diagnosed until their twenties, thirties, and sometimes even later. Different things that most adolescents would go through she didn't. Speaking to the identity piece that Alegra brought up, a big part of her identity was being a sports fan. She was a diehard Clippers fan, and that's how everyone knew her. It was like her claim to fame. She didn't even want to go to Clippers games. My dad was trying to get tickets to try to get her excited about something to get out of the house. She missed certain events in high school because it was too anxiety-provoking to go and it was more comforting to know she could stay in the safety of the home. Their experiences all throughout the lifespan, I think that can be impacted. Even if you're not missing out on them entirely, a lot of people talk about remembering those experiences as tainted by the memories of OCD, even if they got to go experience them. Kim: Right. For me, as a clinician, I often hear two things. One is the client will say something to the likes of, “I've lost my way. I was going in this direction and I've completely lost the path I was supposed to go on.” I think that is a full grief process. I think we've associated grief with the death of people, but it's not. It's deeper than that and it's about like you're talking about, identity and events and occasions. The other thing that I hear is—actually, we can go totally off script here in terms of we've talked about this in the past separately—people think that once they're recovered, they will live a really happy life and that they'll feel happy now. Like, “Oh, the relief is here, I've recovered.” But I think there is a whole stage of grief that follows during recovery and then after recovery. Do you have any thoughts on that, anybody? Alegra: Well, yeah. I think it reminds me a lot of even my own experience, but my client's experiences of when you recover, there tends to be grief about life before OCD. If I'm being perfectly honest, my life will just never be what it was before OCD, and it's different and wonderful in so many ways that maybe it wouldn't be if I didn't have OCD. But I'm laughing because when you were like, “I'm going to mark my calendar in July because you're probably going to have a relapse,” then I have to deal with it every six months. My brain just goes off for like two weeks. I don't know why it happens. It's just my OCD brain, and there's grief associated with that. I can go for six months and I have some intrusive thoughts, but it doesn't really do anything to me to write back in it for two weeks. That's something I have to deal with and I have to get to that acceptance place in the grieving process. I'm not going to have the brain that I did before OCD when I didn't have a single unwanted sexual thought. That just isn't happening. I think we think that we're going to get to this place after recovery, and it's like game over, I forget everything that happened in the past, but we have to remember that OCD can be traumatizing for people. Trauma is stored in the body. The brain is impacted and I think that we can carry that with us afterwards. Kim: Right. Chris: Yeah. I mean, everything that Alegra was saying—I'll never forget. I always joke, but I thought when treatment was done, rainbows were going to shoot out and butterflies. I was going to jump on my very own unicorn and ride off to the sunset. But it was like a bomb had gone off and I had survived the blast, but everything around me was completely pulverized. I just remember thinking, what do I do now? I remember going on social media to look up some of my friends from high school because my OCD got really, really bad after high school. I just remember everybody was starting to date or marry or travel and move on and I'm like, “Great, I live in my grandma's basement. I don't have anything on my calendar. I'm not dating, I don't have any friends. What do I do?” I was just completely like, “Okay, I don't even know where to begin.” I felt so lost. Anything I did just didn't feel right. Like Alegra said, there was so much aftermath that I had to deal with. I had to deal with the fact that I was lost and confused and I was angry and I had all these emotions. I had these memories of just driving around. As part of my OCD, I had multiple subtypes—sexual intrusive thoughts, harm thoughts. I remember contamination, stores around me would get dirty, so I'd be driving hours to buy products from non-dirty stores at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning, crying outside of a store because they were closed or didn't have the product I need, getting home and then my checking would kick in. You left something at the store, driving back. You just put yourself through all these different things that are just not what you would ever experience. I see it with my clients. One client sticks in mind who was in his eighties and after treatment, getting better. He wasn't happy and he is like, “I'm so happy, Chris. You helped me put OCD in remission. But I now realize that I never got married because I was scared of change. I never left the house that I hated in the city I didn't really like because I was afraid of what would happen if I moved.” He's like, “I basically lived my OCD according to OCD'S rules and I'm just really depressed about that.” I know we're going to talk about the positive sides and how to heal in the second half, but this is just really what OCD can ravish on our lives. Kim: Right. Jessica: If I can add one thing too really quickly, something I really think is a common experience too is that once healing happens, even if people do get certain parts of their lives back and feel like they can function again in the ways that they want to, there's always this sense of foreboding joy, that it feels good and I'm happy, but I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop all the time. Or what if I go back to how I was and I lose all my progress? Even when there are those periods of joy and happiness and fulfillment, they might also be accompanied with some anxiety and some what-ifs. Of course, we can work on that and should work on that in treatment too because we want to maximize those periods of joy as much as we can. But that's something that I commonly see, that the anxiety sticks around just in different ways. OCD, SHAME, & GUILT Kim: Yeah, for sure. I see that very commonly too. Let's talk now about OCD, shame, and guilt. I'll actually go straight to you, Jessica, because I remember you speaking about this beautifully. Can you explain the difference between shame and guilt specifically related to how it may show up with OCD? Jessica: Yeah. I mean, they're definitely related feelings but they are different. I think the simplest way to define the difference is guilt says, “I did something bad,” whereas shame says, “I am bad.” Shame is really an identity-based emotion and we see a lot of shame with any theme of OCD. It can show up in lots of different ways, but definitely with some of the themes that are typically classified as Pure O—the sexual intrusive thoughts or unwanted harm thoughts, scrupulosity, blasphemous thoughts. There can be a lot of shame around a person really identifying with their thoughts and what it means about them. Attaching that, meaning about what it means about them. And then of course, there can also be guilt, which I think feels terrible as well, but it's like a shame light where it's like, “I did something wrong by having this thought,” or just guilt for maybe something that they've thought or a compulsion that they've done because of their OCD. Kim: Yeah. I've actually also experienced a lot of clients saying they feel guilty because of the impact their OCD has had on their loved ones too. They're suffering to the biggest degree, but they're also carrying the guilt of like, “I've caused suffering to my family,” or “I'm a financial burden to my parents with the therapy and the psychiatrist.” I think that there's that secondary guilt that shows up for a lot of people as well, which we can clump in as an outcome or a consequence or an experience of having OCD. Chris: Yeah. I mean, right before you said this, Kim, I was thinking for me personally, that was literally what I was going to say. I have a younger sister. She's a couple of years younger than me and I just put her through hell. She was one of the first people that just felt the OCD's wrath because I was so stressed out. She and I shared a lot of the same spaces in the home, so we'd have a lot of fights. Also, when I was younger, because she looks nothing like me—she actually looks more like you, Kim, blonde hair, blue eyes—people didn't know we were related. People would always say things like, “Oh, is that your girlfriend?” So then I'd have a lot of ancestral intrusive thoughts that caused a lot of harm to me, so I'd get mad at her. Because I was young, I didn't know better. And then just the hell I put my mom through. I always think about just like, wow, once again, that's not who Chris is. I would jump in front of eight bullets for both my mom and my sister. I remember one time I needed something because I felt dirty, and my mom hit our spending money so that if there was an emergency. My sister knew where it was and she wouldn't give it to me. I remember taking a lighter and lighting it and being like, “I'll burn your hair if you don't give me the money,” because I was so desperate to buy it because that's how intense the OCD was. I remember she and I talking about that and it just feels like a different human. Once again, it's more than just guilt. It's shame of who I had become because of it and not even recognizing the boy I was now compared to the man I am now, way than man now. OCD AND ANGER Kim: One thing we haven't talked a lot about, but Chris, you just spoke to it, and I've actually been thinking about this a lot. Let's talk about OCD and anger because I think that is another emotional toll of OCD. A lot of clients I've had—even just recently, I've been thinking about this a lot—sometimes instead of doing compulsions, they have an anger outburst or maybe as well as compulsions. Does anyone want to speak to those waves of frustration and anger that go around these thoughts that we have or intrusive whatever obsessions in any way, but in addition, the compulsions you feel you have to do when you have OCD? Alegra: I feel like sometimes there can be maybe a deeper, more painful emotion that's underneath that anger, which can be shame or it can be guilt, but it feels like anger is maybe easier to express. But also, there just is inherent anger that comes up with having to live with this. I remember one time in my own personal therapy, my therapist was trying to relate and she pulled out this picture that she had like an, I don't know, eight-year-old client with OCD and was like, “She taps herself a lot.” I screamed at her at that moment. I was like, “Put that fucking picture away, and don't ever show that to me again. I do not want to be compared to an eight-year-old who taps himself, like I will tap myself all day fucking long, so long as I don't have these sexually unwanted thoughts about children.” I was so angry at that moment because it just felt like what I was dealing with was so much more taboo and shameful. I was angry a lot of the time. I don't think we can answer the question of, why? Why did I have to experience this? Why did someone else not have to experience this? And that anger is valid. The other thing that I want to add is that anger does not necessarily mean that we are now going to act on our obsessions because I think clients get very afraid of that. I remember one time I was so fucking pissed at my coworker. He was obnoxious when I worked in PR, and I was so mad at him, I had to walk outside and regulate. And then instantly, of course, my brain went, “You want his kid to die?” or whatever it was. I felt like, oh my God, I must really want this to happen because I'm mad at him. In terms of anger, we can both feel angry and not align with unwanted thoughts that arise. CAN OCD CAUSE ANGER ISSUES? Kim: Right. OCD can attack the emotions that you experience, like turn it back on you. It's funny, I was doing a little bit of research for this and I typed in ‘OCD in anger.' I was looking to see what was out there. What was so fascinating to me is, you know when you type something in on Google, it shows all of the other things that are commonly typed in. At the very top was ‘Can OCD cause anger issues?' I was like, that is so interesting, that obviously, loved ones or people with OCD are searching for this because it's so normal, I think, to have a large degree of just absolute rage over what you've been through, how much you've suffered, just the torment and what's been lost, as we've already talked about. I just thought that was really fascinating to see, that that's obviously something that people are struggling with. Chris: When you think about it, when we're struggling with OCD, the parts of our brain that are trying to protect us are on fire or on high alert. If you always think about that, I always think of a feral dog. If you're trying to get him help, then he starts to bite. That's how I honestly felt. My anger was mostly before I was diagnosed, and once again, like I said, breaking things at home, screaming, yelling at my family, intimidating them, and stuff. I know that once again, that wasn't who I am at the course. When I finally got a diagnosis, I know for me, the anger dissipated. I was still angry, but the outbursts and the rage, and I think the saddest thing I hear from a lot of my clients is they tell me, I think people think I'm this selfish and spoiled and bratty and angry person. I'm not. I just cannot get a break. I always remind parents that as your loved one or spouses, et cetera—as your loved one gets better, that anger will subside. It won't vanish, it won't disappear, it may change into different emotions, like Alegra was saying, to guilt and to shame and loss of identity. But that rage a lot of times is because we just don't know what to do and we feel attacked constantly with OCD. Kim: Yeah. Jessica: I also want to validate the piece that anger is a really natural and normal stage of grief. I like that you're differentiating, Chris, between the rage that a lot of people experience in it versus maybe just a different type of anger that can show up after when you recognize how—I think, Alegra, you brought up—we can't answer the question of, why did this happen to me? Or “I missed out on all these times or years of my life that I can't get back.” Anger is not a problem. It's not an issue when it shows up like that. It's actually a very healthy natural part of grief. We want to obviously process it in ways that really honor that feeling and tend to that feeling in a helpful way. I just wanted to point out that part as well. DO YOU CONSIDER HAVING OCD A TRAUMATIC EVENT? Kim: Yeah, very, very helpful. This is for everybody and you can chime in, but I wanted to just get a poll even. Alegra spoke on this a little bit already. Do you consider having OCD a traumatic event? Alegra: A hundred thousand percent. I'm obviously not going to trauma dump on all of you all, but boy, would I love to. I have had quite a few of what's classified as big T traumas, which I even hate the differentiation of big T, sexual assault, abuse, whatever. I have had quite a bit of big T traumas and I have to say that OCD has been the most traumatizing thing I have been through and I think we'll ever go through. It bothers me how much I think gatekeeping can happen in our community. Like, no, it's only trauma if you've been assaulted, it's only trauma if X, Y, and Z. I have a lot of big T trauma and I'm here to say that OCD hands down, like I would go through all of that big T trauma 15 times over to not have OCD, 100%. I think Chris can just add cherries to the cake, whatever that phrase is. Chris: Yeah. This is actually how the title, the Emotional Toll of OCD, came about. We had really talked about this. I was really inspired mainly by Alegra talking about the trauma of OCD and I was like, finally, someone put the right word because I always felt that other words didn't really speak to my personal experience and the experience I see with clients. We had submitted it for a talk and it got denied. I remember they liked it so much that they literally had a meeting with you and I, Kim, and we're like, “We actually really love this. We just got to figure out a way to change it.” Like Alegra was saying, a lot of the people that were part of a trauma special interest group just said, “Look, we can't be using the word ‘trauma' like this.” But we had a good talk about it. It's like, I do believe it's trauma. I always feel weird talking about him because sometimes he listens to my stuff, but still, I'll say it anyways. But my dad will hopefully be the first to admit it. But there were a lot of physical altercations between he and I that were inappropriate—physical abuse, emotional abuse, yelling, screaming. Like Alegra said, I would relive that tenfold than go through the depths of my OCD again where I attempted suicide, where I isolated, where I didn't even recognize myself. If ‘trauma' isn't the correct word, we only watered it down to emotional toll just to make DSM-5 folks happy. But if ‘trauma' isn't the word, I don't know what is, because like I said, trauma was okay to describe the pain I went through childhood, but in my personal experience, it failed in comparison to the trauma that I went through with OCD. Alegra: I also want to add something. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I'm thinking about the DSM definition, I think it's defining post-traumatic stress disorder. I don't think it's describing trauma specifically. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's criteria for PTSD. I will be the first to say and none of you have to agree. I think that you can have PTSD from living with OCD. DSM-wise diagnostically, you can't. But I think when people are like, “Well, that's not the definition of trauma in the DSM,” no, they're defining PTSD. It's like, yeah, some people have anxiety and don't have an anxiety disorder. You can experience trauma and not have full-blown PTSD. That's my understanding of it. Kim: Yeah. It's funny because I don't have OCD, so I am an observer to it. What I think is really interesting is I can be an observer to someone who's been through, like you've talked about, a physical assault or a sexual assault and so forth, and they may report I'm having memories of the event and wake up with the physiology of my heart beating and thoughts racing. But then I'll have clients with OCD who will have these vivid memories of having to wash their hands and the absolute chaos of, “I can't touch this. Oh my God, please don't splash the water on me,” Memories of that and nightmares of that and those physiological experiences. They're remembering the events that they felt so controlled and so stuck in. That's where for me, I was, with Chris, really advocating for. These moments imprint our brain right in such a deep way. Alegra: Yeah. I'm reading this book, not to tell everyone to buy this book, but it's by Dr. Bruce Perry and he does a bunch of research on trauma and the brain. Basically, the way that he describes it is like when we experience something and it gets associated. Let's say, for instance, there are stores that I could go to and I could still feel that very visceral feeling that I did when I was suffering. Part of that is how trauma is stored in the brain. Even if you logically know I'm not in that experience now, I'm not in the war zone or I'm not in the depths of my OCD suffering, just the store, let's say, being processed through the lower part of your brain can bring up all of those associations. So, it does do something to the brain. Kim: Right. Chris: Absolutely. I was part of a documentary and it was the first time I went back to the home that I had attempted suicide, and the police got called the hospital and all that. It was a bad choice. They didn't push me into it. It was my idea because I haven't gone back there, had no clue how I'd react and I broke down. I mean, broke down in a dry heaving way that I never knew I could and we had to stop filming and we left. Where I was at my worst of OCD was there and also at my grandma's house because that's where I moved right after the suicide attempt. I'd have people around me, and still going down to the basement area that I lived in. It is very hard. I rarely do it. So, I have a reaction. To me, it was like, if that isn't once again trauma, I don't know what is. Alegra: It is. Chris: Exactly. I'll never forget there was a woman that was part of a support group I ran. She was in her seventies and she had gone through cancer twice. I remember her telling the group that she's like, “I'll go through cancer a third time before I'll ever go back to my worst of OCD.” Obviously, we're not downplaying these other experiences—PTSD, trauma, cancer, horrible things, abuse, et cetera. What we're saying is that OCD takes a lasting imprint and it's something that I have not been able to shake. I've done so much advocacy, so much therapy, so much as a therapist and I don't still struggle, but the havoc it has on my life, that's something I think is going to be imprinted for life. Alegra: Forever. Jessica: Also, part of the definition of trauma is having a life-threatening experience. What you're speaking to, Chris, you had a suicide attempt during that time. Suicidality is common with OCD. Suicidal ideation, it's changing your life. I think Alegra, you said, “I'll never have the life or the brain that I had before OCD.” These things that maybe it's not, well, some of them are actually about real confrontation with death, but these real life-changing, life-altering experiences that potentially also drive some people to have thoughts or feelings about wanting to not be alive anymore. I just think that element is there. Alegra: That's so brilliant, Jessica, because that is so true. If we're thinking about it being life-threatening and life-altering, it was life-threatening for me. I got to the point where I was like, “If something doesn't change, I will kill myself. I will.” That is life-threatening to a person. I would be driving on the freeway like, “Do I just turn the car? Do I just turn it now? Because I was so just fucking done with what was happening in my brain.” Kim: It feels crisis. Alegra: Yeah. Kim: It's like you're experiencing a crisis in that moment, and I think that that's absolutely valid. Alegra: It's an extended crisis. For me, it was a crisis of three to four years. I never had a break. Not when I was sleeping. I mean, never. Chris: I was just going to add that I hear in session almost daily, people are like, “If I just don't wake up tomorrow, I'm fine. I'd never do anything, but if I just don't wake up tomorrow, I'm fine.” We know this is the norm. The DSM talks about 50% of individuals with OCD have suicidal ideation, 25% will attempt. This is what people are going through as they enter treatment or before treatment. They just feel like, “If I just don't wake up or if something were to happen to me, I'd actually be at peace with it.” It's a really alarming number. THE EMOTIONAL TOLL OF OCD TREATMENT Kim: Right. Let's move. I love everything that you guys are saying and I feel like we've really acknowledged the emotional toll really, the many ways that it universally impacts a person emotionally and in all areas of their lives. I'm wondering if you guys could each, one at a time or bounce it off each other, share what you believe are some core ways in which we can manage these emotional tolls, bruises left, or scars left from having OCD? Jessica, do you want to go first? Jessica: Sure. I guess the first thing that comes to mind is—I'll speak from the therapist perspective—if you're a therapist specializing in treating OCD, make sure you leave room to talk about these feelings that we're bringing up. Of course, doing ERP and doing all of the things to treat OCD is paramount and we want to do that first and foremost if possible. But if you're not also leaving room for your client to process this grief, process through and challenge their shame, just hold space for the anger and maybe talk about it. Let your client have that anger experience in a safe space. We're missing a huge, huge part of that person's healing if we're leaving that out. Maybe I'll piggyback on what you two say, but that's just the baseline that I wanted to put out there. Chris: I could go next. I would say the first thing is what Jess said. We have to treat the whole person. I think it's great when a client's Y-BOCS score has gone down and symptomology is not a daily impact. However, all the things that we talked about, we aren't unicorns. This is what many of our clients are going through and there has to be space for the therapist to validate, to address, and to help heal. I would say the biggest thing that I believe moves you past where we've been talking about is re-identity formation. We just don't recognize until you get better how nearly every single decision we make is based off of our OCD fears, that some way or another, what we listen to, how we speak, what direction we drive, what we buy. I mean, everything we do is, will the OCD be okay with this? Will this harm me, et cetera? One of the things I do with all my clients before I complete treatment is I start to help them figure out who they are. I say, “Let's knock everything we know. What are the parts of yourself that you organically feel are you and you love? Let's flourish those. Let's water those. Let's help those grow. What are some other things that you would be doing if OCD hadn't completely ransacked your life? Do you spend time with family? Are you somebody that wants to give back to communities? What things do you like to do when you're alone?” I help clients and it was something I did after my own treatment, like re-fall in love and be impressed with yourself and start to rebuild. I tell clients, one of the things that helped me flip it and I try to do it with them is instead of looking at it like, “This is hard, this is tough,” look at it as an opportunity. We get to take that pause, reconnect with ourselves and start to go in a direction that is absolutely going to move as far away from the OCD selves as possible, but also to go to the direction of who we are. Obviously, for me, becoming a therapist and advocate is what's helped me heal, and not everybody will go that route. But when they're five months, six months, a year after the hard part of their treatment and they're doing the things they always picture they could do and reconnecting with the people that they love, I start to see their light grow again and the OCD starts to fade. That's really the goal. Alegra: I think something that I'll add—again, I don't want to be the controversial one, but maybe I will be—is there might be, yes. Can I get canceled after this in the community? There might be some kind of trauma work that somebody might need to do after OCD treatment, after symptoms are managed, and this is where we need to find nuance. Obviously, treatments like EMDR are not evidence-based for OCD, but if somebody has been really traumatized by OCD, maybe there is some kind of somatic experience, some kind of EMDR, or some kind of whatever it might be to really help work on that emotional impact that might still be affecting the person. It's important of course to find a therapist who understands OCD, who isn't reassuring you and you're falling back into your symptoms. But I have had clients successfully go through trauma therapy for the emotional impact OCD had and said it was tremendously helpful. That might be something to consider as well. If you do all the behavioral work and you still feel like, “I am really in the trenches emotionally,” we might need to add something else in. Chris: I actually don't think that's controversial, Alegra. I think that what you're speaking-- Alegra: I don't either, but a lot of clinicians do. Jessica: No, I agree. I think a lot of people will, and it's been a part of my recovery. I don't talk about a lot for that very reason. But after I was done with treatment, I didn't feel like I needed an OCD therapist anymore. I was doing extremely well, but all the emotions we'd been talking about, I was still experiencing. I found a clinician nearby because I was going on a four-hour round trip for treatment. I just couldn't go back to my therapist because of that. She actually worked with a lot of people that lost their lifestyle because of gambling. I went to her and I said, “What really spoke to me is how you help people rebuild their lives. I don't need to talk about OCD. If I need to, I'll go back to my old therapist. I need to figure out how to rebuild my life.” That's really what she did. She helped me work through a lot of the trauma with my dad and even got my dad to come to a session and work through that. We worked through living in the closet for my sexual orientation for so long and how hard coming out was because I came out while I was in the midst of OCD. It was a pretty horrible coming out experience. She helped me really work through that, work through the time lost and feeling behind my peers and I felt like a whole person leaving. I decided, as a clinician, I have to do that for my clients. I can't let my clients leave like I felt I left. It was no foul to my therapist. We just didn't talk about these other things. Now what I'll say as a clinician is, if I'm working with a client and I feel like I could be the one to help them, I'll keep them with me. I also know my limitations. Like Alegra was saying, if they had the OCD went down so other traumas came to surface and they've dealt with molestation or something like that, I know my limitations, but what I will make sure to do is refer to a clinician that I think can help them because once again, I think treating the whole client is so important. Kim: Yeah. There's two things I'll bring up in addition because I agree with everything you're saying. I don't think it's controversial. In fact, I often will say to my staff who see a lot of my clients, we want to either be doing, like Jessica said, some of the processing as we go or really offer after ERPs. “Do you need more support in this process of going back to the person you want?” That's a second level of treatment that I think can be super beautiful. As you're going too with exposures and so forth, you're asking yourself those questions like, what do I value? Take away OCD, what would I do? A lot of times, people are like, “I have no idea. I have really no idea,” like Chris then. I think that you can do it during treatment. You can also do it after, whichever feels best for you and your clinician. The other thing that I find shows up for my patients the most is they'll bring up the shame and the guilt, or they'll bring up the anger, they'll bring up the grief. And then there's this heavy layer of some judgment for having it. There's this heavy layer as if they don't deserve to have these emotions. Probably, the thing I say the most is, “It makes complete sense that you feel that way.” I think that we have to remember that. That every emotion that is so strong and almost dysregulating, it makes complete sense that you feel that way given what you're going through. I would just additionally say, be super compassionate and non-judgmental for these emotional waves that you're going to have to ride. I mean, think about the grief. This is the other thing. We don't go in and then process the grief and then often you're running. It's a wave. It's a process. It's a journey. It's going to keep coming and going. I think it's this readjustment on our thinking, like this is the life goal, the long-term practice now. It's not a one-and-done. Do you guys have thoughts? Jessica: I think as clinicians, validating that these are absolutely normal experiences and you deserve to be feeling this way is important because I think that sometimes, I don't think there's ill intent, but clinicians might gaslight their clients in a certain way by saying, “This isn't traumatic. This is not trauma. You can feel sad, but it is absolutely not a trauma,” and not validating that for a person can be really painful. I think as clinicians, we need to be open to the emotional impact that OCD has on a person and validate that so we're not sitting there saying, “Sorry, you can't use that word. This is not your experience. You can be sad, you can be whatever, but it's not trauma,” because I have seen that happen. Kim: Or a clinician saying, “It's not grief because no one died.” Jessica: Yeah. It was just hard. That was it. Get over it. Kim: Or look at how far you've come. Even that, it's a positive thing to say. It's a positive thing to say, but I think what we're all saying is, very much, it makes complete sense. What were you going to say, Jessica? Sorry. Jessica: No. I just wanted to point out this one nuance that I see come up and that I think is important to catch, which is that sometimes there can be grief or shame or all these emotions that we're talking about, but sometimes those emotions can also become the compulsion themselves at times. Shala Nicely has a really, really good article about this, about how depression itself can become a compulsion, or I've seen clients engage in what I refer to as stewing in guilt or excessive guilt or self-punishment. What we want to differentiate is, punishing yourself by stewing in guilt is actually providing some form of covert reassurance about the obsessions. Sometimes we need to process the true emotional experiences that are happening as a result of OCD, but we also want to make sure that we're on the lookout for self-punishment compulsions and things like that that can mask, or I don't know. That can come out in response to those feelings, but ultimately are feeding the OCD still. I just wanted to point out that nuance, that if someone feels like, “I'm doing all this processing of my feelings with my therapist, but I'm not getting any better or I'm actually feeling worse,” we want to look at, is there a sneaky compulsion happening there? Chris: I was just going to quickly add two things. One, I think what you were saying, Kim, with your clients, I see all the time. “I shouldn't feel this way. It's not okay for me to feel this way. There's people out there that are going through bigger traumas.” For some reason, I feel society gives a hierarchy of like, “Oh, if you're going through this you can grieve for this much, but we're going to grief police you if you're going through this. That's much down here.” So, my clients will feel guilty. My brother lost an arm when he was younger. How dare I feel bad about the time lost with OCD? I always tell my clients, there's no such thing as grief police and your experience is yours. We don't need to compare or contrast it to others because society already does that. And then second, I'm going to throw in a little plug for Kim. I feel as a clinician, it's my responsibility to keep absorbing things that I think will help my client. Your book that really talks about the self-compassion component, I read that from cover to cover. One thing that I've used when we're dealing with this with my clients is saying like, “We got to change our internal voice. Your internal voice has been one that's been frightened, small, scared, angry for so long. We got to change that internal voice to one that roots for you that has you get up each day and tackle the day.” If a client is sitting there saying that they shouldn't feel okay, I always ask them, “What kind of voice would you use to your younger brother or sister that you feel protective about? Would you knock down their experience? No, you would hold that space for them. What if we did that for you? It may feel odd, but this is something that I feel you need at this time.” Typically, when they start using a more self-compassionate tone, they start to feel like they're healing. So, that's something that we got to make sure they're doing as well. OCD AND DEPRESSION Kim: Yeah. Thank you for saying that. One thing we haven't touched on, and I will just quickly bring it up too, is I think secondary depression is a normal part of having OCD as well and is a part of the emotional toll. Sometimes either that depression can impact your ability to recover, or once you've gone through treatment, you're still not hopeful about the future. You're still feeling hopeless and helpless about the way the world is and the way that your brain functions in certain stresses. I would say if that is the case, also don't be afraid to bring up to your clinician. Like, I actually am concerned. I might have some depression if they haven't picked up on it. Because as clinicians, we know there's an emotional toll, we forget to assess for depression. That's something else just to consider. Chris: Yeah. I'm a stats nerd and I think it's 68% of the DSM, people with OCD have a depressive disorder, and 76% have an anxiety disorder. I always wonder, how can you have OCD and not be depressed? I was extremely depressed when my OCD was going on, and I think it's because of how it ravishes your life and takes you away from the things you care about the most. And then the things that would make you happy to get you out of the depression, obviously, you can't do. I will say the nice thing is, typically, what I see, whether it's through medication or not medication, but the treatment itself—what I see is that as people get better from OCD, if their depression did come from having OCD, a lot of it lifts, especially as they start to re-engage in life. Kim: All right. I'm looking at the time and I am loving everything you say. I'd love if you could each go around, tell us where we can hear more about you. If there's any final word that you want to say, I'm more than happy for you to take the mic. Jessica? Jessica: I'll start. I think I said in the introduction, but I have a private practice in Los Angeles. It's called Mindful CBT California. My website is MindfulCBTCalifornia.com. You can find some blogs and a contact page for me there. I hope to see a lot of you at the IOCDF conference this year. I love attending those, so I'll be there. That's it for me. Kim: Chris? Alegra: Like I said, if you're in the Southern California area, make sure to check out OCD SoCal. I am on the board of that or the International OCD Foundation, I'm on the board. I'm always connected at events through that. You can find me on my social media, which is just my name, @ChrisTrondsen. I currently work at the Gateway Institute in Orange County, California, so you can definitely find me there. My email is just my name, ChrisTrondsen@GatewayOCD.com. I would say the final thought that I want to leave, first and foremost, is just what I hope you got from this podcast is that all those other mixed bags of emotions that you're experiencing are normal. We just want to normalize that for you, and make sure as you're going through your recovery journey that you and your clinician address them, because I feel much more like a whole person because I was able to address those. You're not alone. Hopefully, you got from that you're not alone. Kim: Alegra? Alegra: You can find me @obsessivelyeverafter on Instagram. I also have a website, AlegraKastens.com, where you can find my contact info. You can find my Ask Alegra workshop series that I do once a month. I also just started a podcast called Sad Girls Who Read, so you can find me there with my co-host Erin Kommor, who also has OCD. My final words would probably be, I know we talked about a lot of really dark stuff today and how painful OCD can be, but it absolutely can get so much better. I would say that I am 95% better than I was when I first started suffering. It's brilliant and it's beautiful, and I never thought that would be the case. Yes, you'll hear from me in July, Kim, but other than that, I feel like I do have a very-- Kim's like, “Oh, will I?” Kim: I've scheduled you in. Alegra: She's like, “I have seven months to prep for this.” But other than that, I would say that my life is like, I never would've dreamed that I could be here, so it is really possible. Kim: Yeah. Chris: Amen. Of that. Kim: Yeah. Thank you all so much. This has been so meaningful for me to have you guys on. I'm really grateful for your time and your advocacy. Thank you. Chris: Thanks, Kim. Thanks for having us. Alegra: Thanks, Kim.
Book your free session directly, visit: www.robertjamescoaching.com Want to support the podcast in return for exclusive content and more access to me? Check out my Patreon tiers, any help is much appreciated :) www.patreon.com/user?u=88044382 Shaun Flores is a creative who knows no boundaries, an influencer aiming to have the right influence on the world. He typically focuses on mental health and well-being. Shaun is now seeking to qualify as a life coach, using my experiences from the creative world and my personal world to help guide others on their path in life. His creative journey was recently thrown a curveball with his ‘Pure O' OCD diagnosis at 27 years old. He has worked with OCD charities to raise awareness and shatter archaic myths about OCD. His diagnosis has encouraged him to widen the conversation about mental health, Shaun has curated and delivered two TEDx Talks, TEDx 2022& TEDx 2018. In 2018 he gave a TEDx Talk about the education system and how we can do more to ensure no one is left behind. His second TEDx talk was on “the straitjacket of masculinity and male mental health” in 2022. A third TEDx Talk remains in his periphery to help raise awareness of OCD and raise funds for OCD research, which remains severely underfunded and under-researched. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theshaunflores/ More links to Shaun's work: https://linktr.ee/theshaunflores TEDx Talks, TEDx 2022 & TEDx 2018. A third TEDx Talk remains in my periphery to help raise awareness of OCD and raise funds for a mental illness that remains severely underfunded and under-researched. https://linktr.ee/theshaunflores @theshaunflores/ Twitter @theshaunflores/Instagram Flores Shaun | Facebook "He who has a why can endure any suffering." Disclaimer: Robert James Pizey (of Robert James Coaching) is not a medical professional and is also not providing therapy or medical treatment. Robert James Pizey recommends that anyone experiencing anxiety or OCD to seek professional medical help straight away to get a medical opinion and rule out other conditions or illnesses. The comments and opinions as written on this site are simply that and are not to be taken as professional medical opinions. Robert James Pizey provides coaching, education, accountability and peer support around Anxiety through his own personal experiences.
In episode 367 I chat with Dr Chad LeJeune. Chad is a professor of psychology at the University of San Francisco, and author of the books The worry trap, and more recently, “Pure O" OCD: Letting Go of Obsessive Thoughts with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. We discuss what is Pure O, what is acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT), his book, when does a thought become an obsession, skills to defuse from sticky thoughts, his acronym LLAMP and how it can help, how to learn ACT skills so that they are remembered, learning to let go of fighting with horrible disturbing thoughts, discovering your values and how to live by them, and much more. Hope it helps. Show notes: https://theocdstories.com/episode/chad-367 The podcast is made possible by NOCD and JS Health vitamins. NOCD offers effective, convenient therapy available in the US and outside the US. To find out more about NOCD, their therapy plans and if they currently take your insurance head over to https://go.treatmyocd.com/theocdstories JS Health's vitamin formulas are solution-focused, meaning they are designed to target your main health concerns and support a whole range of wellness goals. Get 15% off their entire range at www.jshealthvitamins.com and use the code OCDSTORIES at checkout. Join our Patreon to see the video versions of the podcast ad-free and other perks: https://www.patreon.com/theocdstoriespodcast
MAJOR OCD STRAIGHT TALK ANNOUNCEMENT coming tomorrow. Chris responds to a listener's question, and discusses the concepts of distinguishing between obsessional and ruminitive thinking in so-called "pure-o OCD, and of mental contamination. feel free to reach out with any questions you have to chrisleins04@gmail.com.
To mark OCD Awareness Week, this episode is intended to offer gratitude to the resources and people within the OCD community that have helped light the way for me and so many others. I share some of the things that have been most helpful for me, and hope they can help you too. I also talk more about the term "Pure O", which is used to describe OCD that presents as intrusive thoughts with mental compulsions. This term was a game changer for me. Resources mentioned: Alison Dotson Book: Pure O: The Invisible Side of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder Chrissie Hodges YouTube Page IntrusiveThoughts.org "Made of Millions" YouTube Channel - This is the YouTube channel that has interviews with Dr. Steven Phillipson. The OCD Stories Podcast International OCD Foundation NOCD - OCD Therapy Resource OCD Advocates on Instagram: Chrissie Hodges: @pureochrissie Alison Dotson: @beingmewithocd Kimberley Quinlan: @youranxietytoolkit Alegra Kastens: @obessivelyeverafter As always, take what serves you - and leave the rest. (This podcast is not meant to replace therapy. If you feel you need it, we encourage you to reach out to a licensed mental health professional)
On this episode, I answer a question from someone struggling with panic attacks while feeling nauseous for several hours! The next question is about someone struggling with “loud” environments and dealing with “bossy” spaces. For this question, I'm asking for the FearCast family to reach out with their suggestions and… Continue reading The post #113- Nausea Panic, “Loud” Surroundings, and Starting College With Pure O appeared first on FearCast Podcast.
Today, we're back with another Skills episode, covering the OCD subtype we haven't discussed yet: Pure O. We'll be discussing where the term came from, why we're so confused by it, and what the research tells us about this unique subtype. In this episode, you'll hear us exploring and thinking out loud about Pure O. We talk about where the idea of Pure O came from, what it looks like in session, and how it can create confusion for clinicians and clients alike if it's misunderstood. Connect: https://www.melbournewellbeinggroup.com.au/ http://www.drcelingelgec.com.au/ This show is produced in collaboration with Wavelength Creative. Visit wavelengthcreative.com for more information.
1:1 HELP 🤝 Private OCD Recovery Program: https://youhaveocd.com APP IOS 📲 https://apps.apple.com/app/ocd-help/id1320556362 APP ANDROID 📲 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ocd.reader.ebook.ebooks FREE HELP 💬 OCD FORUM: https://youhaveocd.com/forum/ HOCD, ROCD, POCD, Existential OCD, Sensorimotor OCD, Contamination OCD, False Memory OCD, Depersonalization OCD, Derealization OCD, Homosexual OCD, Harm OCD, Racial OCD, Meta OCD 🔴 Process Of Recovery https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAphjuWSfiaW1R4iwmTOvbbR 🔴 OCD Symptoms https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAoKnzDSVuNcQd5vHp9U6ekC 🔴 Must Watch OCD Information https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAr-xPdCVcuLI-9QPC4wI5oS 🔴 HOCD ( Homosexual OCD ) playlist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7XK5HGkclw&list=PLn8jpF6vTPAqLXvmcJMG73UkYtbJ9G3dR 🔴 Pure O ( Pure-O ) playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApGYiKkvbqO0PHKYzDiHL2n 🔴 Religious OCD playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAroPZL5ik3UMJBLWeRPik9- 🔴 OCD Compulsions playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApfI8aNmhelb5ZV_jsDyXPB 🔴 Sensorimotor OCD playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAp2Sa_EbkrsGdhSN5jkrR_y 🔴 Cheating OCD playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAqhTTVUzQsIorsKvEr7Qaq6 🔴 Harm OCD playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAr0PLHxFEvwZnWI2UjtjZar 🔴 Relationship OCD playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApg2BMa0iBRsdAGz5cbxD1f 🔴 False Memory OCD Playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApOY9lBfGJ6Y-npVMbLlobw 🔴 Meditation for OCD https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApDJl6lA5WSDfJQLH2rVWIo 🔴 OCD Recovery Q&A https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAoJcJaa2OZ3yPW0SbfNqDv5 🔴 CBT, ERP, ACT and Mindfulness https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAqXwovfXuoqgrpWu_Hh8SEv 🔴 Interviews https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApocFipiYDO-bvcBgWBC29i Follow Me on Social Media ❗️Instagram @youhaveocd ❗️Twitter @youhaveocd ❗️Facebook @youhaveocd #ocd #ocdawareness #obsessivecompulsive #ocdrecovery #cognitivebehaviouraltherapy #ocdproblems #obsessivecompulsivedisorder #ocdhelp #pureo #erp #cbt #anxietyrelief #rocd #anxietyfree #ocdcommunity #beatocd #ocdwarrior #intrusivethoughts #anxietydisorder #anxietydisorders #ocdawarenessweek #overthinking #HOCD #ROCD #rumination #existentialocd #depersonalizationocd #derealizationocd #falsememoryocd #harmocd #ocdforum #MetaOCD
David Meets the British TEAM Group, Part 2: Burns vs. Van de Kolk, Treating somatic symptoms, chronic doubters, GAD, and more! Last week, David answered four questions posed by the British TEAM-CBT group. Today, he answers five more questions, including one on controversies in the treatment of PTSD. Peter – Positive Reframing in TEAM—How much is “enough?” When you do Positive Reframing to reduce Outcome Resistance, how extensively do you have to do it? Do you have to include every emotion the patient has listed on their Dailly Mood Log? Do you also have to focus on most or all of their Negative Thoughts? What's the best approach? Tom – Burns vs. Van De Kolk After reading The Body Keeps the Score, by trauma specialist and psychiatrist, Dr Bessel Van De Kolk, it would appear that people with complex trauma require a high degree of stabilizing work, like deep-breathing, meditation, or yoga, before they can engage with effective therapy. Otherwise, they might not have the words to describe their emotions, or might have repressed memories. In addition, they might not engage or might become destabilized and highly emotional or destructive towards themselves and other people. I wonder if that's your experience with patients you have seen with severe complex trauma in your career? Do you think the TEAM-CBT model has limitations in this area and would you refer to a trauma specialist before embarking on TEAM therapy with such a patient? Sean – Treating Somatic Symptoms with TEAM I'm curious about dealing with the somatic experiences of patients struggling with anxiety, depression, insomnia, trauma, etc. Clients can often challenge their distorted Negative Thoughts but still struggle with the somatic symptoms. I'm curious to know David's thoughts. Hassam – Treating Chronic Doubters with TEAM I'm wondering if David has had experiences with chronic doubters - obsessive doubt in which a patient might say: "Yeah, all these cognitive techniques seem good and all, but what if really I am useless and worthless, and all of this has just been a gimmick? What if it is all a lie? What if we have missed something which really would show how worthless I am ?" Basically, this is closely related to the Pure O version of OCD. OCD is known as the doubting disease, and I really want to hear David's thoughts on how he operates with extremely sticky doubting thoughts. Jacky – Treating Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) with TEAM I have a question about clients with Generalized Anxiety Disorder. When they present with multiple worries, do we need to cognitively restructure every worry? Clients with GAD often have multiple worries so we could be there for quite a while if we have to work on every single worry! End of the Part 1 Questions. David will return to the British group for Part 2 in the future, since they had many additional questions. Here is a note from Dr. Peter Spurrier to all who want more information about the UK TEAM-CBT training group: If you are interested in learning more about our group, or want to contact members, please visit us at: https://feelinggood.uk.com/ You will find contact details for many of us on the "Our TEAM CBT Practitioners" page. If you are interested in joining our TEAM-CBT training group, or want more information, you can email me (Dr. Peter Spurrier) at Docspurr@gmail.com.
David Meets the British TEAM Group, Part 1: Treating adolescents, Intrusive thoughts, TEAM-CBT homework, Surprises from the beta tests, and more. Greg – What were the Surprising Results of the Feeling Good Beta Test? What were the surprising results you referred to in the beta testing the new TEAMCBT App? Were there some things that weren't effective or didn't work in the way you expected? Rima – Is Psychotherapy “Homework” required in TEAM-CBT? I have a question about rapid recovery with TEAM CBT. Traditional CBT usually takes quite a lot of sessions and requires homework between sessions. How does this fit with a recovery in a single (two-hour) session? Do the patients still have to do homework? Paul – Treating PTSD with Intrusive Thoughts How can TEAM help an individual who has intrusive thoughts about a traumatic event in their past? Jessica – Treating Adolescents with TEAM-CBT Do you need to vary the therapy techniques when working with adolescents, as opposed to adults? And if so, how? Peter – Positive Reframing in TEAM—How much is “enough?” When you do Positive Reframing to reduce Outcome Resistance, how extensively do you have to do it? Do you have to include every emotion the patient has listed on their Dailly Mood Log? Do you also have to focus on most or all of their Negative Thoughts? What's the best approach? The following questions will be answered next week in Part 2 of David's encounter with the British group. Tom – Burns vs. Van De Kolk After reading The Body Keeps the Score, by trauma specialist and psychiatrist, Dr Bessel Van De Kolk, it would appear that people with complex trauma require a high degree of stabilizing work, like deep-breathing, meditation, or yoga, before they can engage with effective therapy. Otherwise, they might not have the words to describe their emotions, or might have repressed memories. In addition, they might not engage or might become destabilized and highly emotional or destructive towards themselves and other people. I wonder if that's your experience with patients you have seen with severe complex trauma in your career? Do you think the TEAM-CBT model has limitations in this area and would you refer to a trauma specialist before embarking on TEAM therapy with such a patient? Sean – Treating Somatic Symptoms with TEAM I'm curious about dealing with the somatic experiences of patients struggling with anxiety, depression, insomnia, trauma, etc. Clients can often challenge their distorted Negative Thoughts but still struggle with the somatic symptoms. I'm curious to know David's thoughts. Hassam – Treating Chronic Doubters with TEAM I'm wondering if David has had experiences with chronic doubters - obsessive doubt in which a patient might say: "Yeah, all these cognitive techniques seem good and all, but what if really I am useless and worthless, and all of this has just been a gimmick? What if it is all a lie? What if we have missed something which really would show how worthless I am ?" Basically, this is closely related to the Pure O version of OCD. OCD is known as the doubting disease, and I really want to hear David's thoughts on how he operates with extremely sticky doubting thoughts. Jacky – Treating Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) with TEAM I have a question about clients with Generalized Anxiety Disorder. When they present with multiple worries, do we need to cognitively restructure every worry? Clients with GAD often have multiple worries so we could be there for quite a while if we have to work on every single worry! End of the Part 1 Questions. David will return to the British group for Part 2 in the future, since they had many additional questions. Here is a note from Dr. Peter Spurrier to all who want more information about the British TEAM-CBT training group: If you are interested in learning more about our group, or want to contact members, please visit us at: https://feelinggood.uk.com/ You will find contact details for many of us on the "Our TEAM CBT Practitioners" page. If you are interested in joining our TEAM-CBT training group, or want more information, you can email me (Dr. Peter Spurrier) at Docspurr@gmail.com.
AT Parenting Survival Podcast: Parenting | Child Anxiety | Child OCD | Kids & Family
Many kids have what some people call “pure O” or purely obsessional thoughts. But more often than not those obsessional thoughts are quieted by a menu of mental compulsions that go along with it. So what is a parent to do if their child is doing unseen mental compulsions?I explore “Pure O” and mental compulsions in this week's episode of the AT Parenting Survival Podcast.***This podcast episode is sponsored by NOCD. NOCD provides online OCD therapy in the US, UK, Australia and Canada. To schedule your free 15 minute consultation to see if NOCD is a right fit for you and your child, go tohttps://go.treatmyocd.com/at_parentingThis podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be used to replace the guidance of a qualified professional.To join the AT Parenting Community go to: www.ATparentingcommunity.comVisit my website at www.ATparentingSurvival.comSign up for my weekly email newsletter:https://pages.convertkit.com/740ba8cd83/92109b7172 See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
Candance wrote, “Parts of my brain continually struggle for power while others retreat completely. But no matter what's been taken—time, control, hope for the future—it's never too late to start anew.” Bianca said, “Every day I learn new things about how my OCD manifests, and I am figuring out in real-time what that means for my relationships, health, and job.” And Kirsten shared, “OCD, contrary to popular belief, is not tidy or clean. It's messy. Exhausting. Loud.” These words come from personal experiences with OCD. Stories we've had the honor of sharing on our blog. But OCD is not a challenge we've talked about on this specific platform. So on today's episode, it is our honor to have Sara Galgalo, a psychotherapist who works at the OCD Center of Los Angeles, as our guest to help us better understand OCD, how it gets misdiagnosed for other things like anxiety, and the type of treatment that is having a pretty incredible impact. Sara is a big Doctor Who fan, she grew up playing sports and was even a figure skater for years, and she loves to go hiking back in her home state of Washington. Sara Galgalo is a psychotherapist licensed as a Marriage and Family Therapist in the State of California. Sara received her Master's degree in Clinical Psychology from Pepperdine University. Sara's work at the OCD Center of Los Angeles focuses on CBT for adults, adolescents, and children suffering from all types of OCD (including all “Pure O” variants such as HOCD, POCD, ROCD, and Harm OCD), and other anxiety disorders. In addition to treating individual clients, Sara also currently leads a low-fee therapy/support group for adults with OCD. She's a big Doctor Who fan, grew up playing a lot of sports (and was a figure skater for a few years), and loves to go hiking in her home state of Washington. Show Notes (Links of ours and guests): Download a transcript of this episode at twloha.com/podcast. Follow TWLOHA on social media at: twitter.com/TWLOHA instagram.com/twloha/ facebook.com/towriteloveonherarms/ Visit our FIND HELP page of mental health resources at twloha.com/find-help/. Get connected for free, 24/7 to a trained crisis counselor via Crisis Text Line by texting TWLOHA to 741741. Connect with our team by emailing podcast@twloha.com. Learn more about the podcast and previous episodes at twloha.com/podcast. Download TWLOHA's daily-use self-care app, The Hopeful, at twloha.com/thehopeful/. Check out the services offered at the OCD Center of LA by visiting https://ocdla.com/. Read blogs relating to OCD at https://twloha.com/blog/topics/ocd/. Discover resources and learn more through the International OCD Foundation by visiting https://iocdf.org/. Purchase “Turtles All the Way Down” by John Green by going to https://www.johngreenbooks.com/turtles-all-the-way-down-book. Check out the show Pure at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_(British_TV_series). Buy the book “The Happiness Trap” by Dr. Russ Harris at https://thehappinesstrap.com/. Credits: This episode of the TWLOHA podcast was hosted by Chad Moses and produced by Rebecca Ebert. Music assistance was provided by James Likeness and Ben Tichenor.
In this episode, I want to talk about how to do ERP with Intrusive Thoughts and Pure O OCD. Would you like the exact guide I give to my individual clients? Click the link below and you can download it 100% FREE - https://www.restoredminds.com/free-guide Want to watch our episodes on YouTube? and even join us for our next live? You're just one click away from doing so! Click here to follow us on youtube https://www.youtube.com/restoredminds?sub_confirmation=1 Your feedback and support matter, so please help us out by writing a review on iTunes! All you have to do is click the link below. Apple Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-restored-minds-podcast/id1485758572 If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram Stories, and tag me @mattcodde_lcsw Thank you for your support of this show! Don't forget to connect with us via social media - we got daily motivation quotes to motivate you daily! https://www.facebook.com/ocdsupportcommunity https://instagram.com/mattcodde_lcsw
In part 2 of their live episode at the FENOMENAL festival, Alex and Em chat to writer Bryony Gordon. Together, they talk about Bryony's journey with Pure O and addiction, breaking mental health stigmas paving the way for future generations to talk more openly about these issues. As always, the girls discuss your Is It Just Me?'s, and this week they explore how it feels to a partner who doesn't understand your body image struggles.You can find Bryony's most recent books below:No Such Thing As NormalGlorious Rock BottomShow timestamps:Good, Bad & Awkward - 00:01:36Interview with Bryony Gordon - 00:25:36Is It Just Me? - 01:00:55Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at shouldideletethatpod@gmail.comSponsored by George at Asda, check out their latest collection at george.comProduced & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
1:1 HELP 🤝 Private OCD Recovery Program: https://youhaveocd.com APP IOS 📲 https://apps.apple.com/app/ocd-help/id1320556362 APP ANDROID 📲 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ocd.reader.ebook.ebooks FREE HELP 💬 OCD FORUM: https://youhaveocd.com/forum/ HOCD, ROCD, POCD, Existential OCD, Sensorimotor OCD, Contamination OCD, False Memory OCD, Depersonalization OCD, Derealization OCD, Homosexual OCD, Harm OCD, Racial OCD, Meta OCD 🔴 Process Of Recovery https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAphjuWSfiaW1R4iwmTOvbbR 🔴 OCD Symptoms https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAoKnzDSVuNcQd5vHp9U6ekC 🔴 Must Watch OCD Information https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAr-xPdCVcuLI-9QPC4wI5oS 🔴 HOCD ( Homosexual OCD ) playlist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7XK5HGkclw&list=PLn8jpF6vTPAqLXvmcJMG73UkYtbJ9G3dR 🔴 Pure O ( Pure-O ) playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApGYiKkvbqO0PHKYzDiHL2n 🔴 Religious OCD playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAroPZL5ik3UMJBLWeRPik9- 🔴 OCD Compulsions playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApfI8aNmhelb5ZV_jsDyXPB 🔴 Sensorimotor OCD playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAp2Sa_EbkrsGdhSN5jkrR_y 🔴 Cheating OCD playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAqhTTVUzQsIorsKvEr7Qaq6 🔴 Harm OCD playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAr0PLHxFEvwZnWI2UjtjZar 🔴 Relationship OCD playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApg2BMa0iBRsdAGz5cbxD1f 🔴 False Memory OCD Playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApOY9lBfGJ6Y-npVMbLlobw 🔴 Meditation for OCD https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApDJl6lA5WSDfJQLH2rVWIo 🔴 OCD Recovery Q&A https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAoJcJaa2OZ3yPW0SbfNqDv5 🔴 CBT, ERP, ACT and Mindfulness https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPAqXwovfXuoqgrpWu_Hh8SEv 🔴 Interviews https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn8jpF6vTPApocFipiYDO-bvcBgWBC29i Follow Me on Social Media ❗️Instagram @youhaveocd ❗️Twitter @youhaveocd ❗️Facebook @youhaveocd #ocd #ocdawareness #obsessivecompulsive #ocdrecovery #cognitivebehaviouraltherapy #ocdproblems #obsessivecompulsivedisorder #ocdhelp #pureo #erp #cbt #anxietyrelief #rocd #anxietyfree #ocdcommunity #beatocd #ocdwarrior #intrusivethoughts #anxietydisorder #anxietydisorders #ocdawarenessweek #overthinking #HOCD #ROCD #rumination #existentialocd #depersonalizationocd #derealizationocd #falsememoryocd #harmocd #ocdforum #MetaOCD
Podcast 283: The O of OCD: Featuring Thai-An Truong, LPC, LADC Overview: The "O" of OCD (obsessions) is treated differently from the "C" (compulsions.) Thai-An Truong teaches us what really works! Compulsions can be treated with Response Prevention. The techniques for treating the Obsessions include Flooding, Cognitive Techniques, Motivational Techniques for Outcome and Process Resistance, the Hidden Emotion Technique, and more. OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) consists of frightening thoughts, or obsessions, plus rituals people do in an attempt to prevent or undo the danger. So, for example, if you go to bed and have the thought, “what if I left the burners on the stove turned on,” you might get up and check the burners. Doing this once could be considered normal. But if you do this repeatedly, you definitely have the symptoms of OCD. Rhonda wanted me to share how I treat the obsessions in OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder), also known as "pure O." I often say I wasn't looking to treat OCD, but OCD found me, since I do a lot of work with postpartum women struggling with feelings of depression and anxiety, they are actually about 2.5 times more likely than the general population to develop OCD. We're not sure why, but my theory is OCD attaches to the things we value the most (e.g., health, children's well-being), and not much is valued more greatly than our baby. “Pure O” is actually a misnomer. We think that some people with OCD only have obsessions, without the rituals, because they have lots of mental rituals that people can't see. So therapists wrongly conclude that they just have a “pure O” variety of OCD. We usually think of compulsions in OCD as mainly behavioral (e.g., handwashing too prevent contamination or checking the mail box repeatedly when you put your letter in to make sure it didn't get “stuck”), but mental compulsions (rituals) are also very common. Obsessions are the thoughts or images that cause distress; compulsions, in contrast, are the behavioral or mental acts people engage in to try to decrease the distress. Mental acts, compulsions, and rituals can include: Praying Counting Repeating words silently Recalling events in detail Repeating a mental list to ensure safety Mentally reviewing the past like a video Self-assurance: “I'm okay, nothing bad will happen.” Saying the number 4 to reduce the distress of seeing 6, associated with the devil Thinking of a positive image to replace the disturbing obsession/thought Those are just common examples, but there are many more. Dr. Edna Foa, who has done a lot of research on OCD and the effectiveness of Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) for the treatment of OCD states that patients who have ONLY obsessions or ONLY compulsions are unlikely to have OCD. Over 90% of people with OCD reported having both obsessions and behavioral compulsions/rituals. When mental rituals were included, just 2% reported “pure O”. Foa, E., et al (2012). Treatment That Works: Exposure and Response Prevention for OCD, Second Edition, p. 12 She states we need to assess patients carefully to weed out other disorders: Only O may be depression or GAD. Only C may be trichotillomania, Tourette's syndrome, autism, schizophrenia – all can display repetitive and ritualistic actions. Trauma can look like OCD. For example, a woman who was raped obsessed about harm coming her way and compulsively checked the doors and windows in her apartment. She may need trauma treatment instead of OCD treatment. Specific Phobias: fear of animals (dogs, snakes, etc), heights, needles, storms, flying, driving, etc. Paraphilia: pedophilia, voyeurism, exhibitionism, etc. Dr. Burns' EASY Diagnostic System can be a great tool for pinpointing these and many other diagnoses. How I've helped clients: A step-by-step approach: Disclaimer: This is not meant to be a substitute for therapy. It is frequently most helpful to have a therapist work with you through this process. Initial Assessment: Dr. Burns EASY Diagnostic System Y-BOCs – Yale-Brown Obsessive Compulsive Scale - not diagnosti. This tool is great for identifying types of obsessions, compulsions, and avoidance behaviors. T = Testing – Brief Mood Survey E = Empathy Psychoeducation about OCD and nature of obsessions The more we engage with them, try to suppress them/control them, the stickier they become Share with them about exposure and response prevention and TEAM-CBT approach to treatment Ultimate goal is to eliminate all compulsions – since they the OCD and are the food that feeds the OCD monster Normal for obsessions content to shift from one subtype to another Let them know I will not provide reassurance. Anything expressed/done once is educational, more than once becomes reassurance Include the family in this process A = Assessment of Resistance DML of most disturbing obsession Identify the feelings and thoughts to increase your understanding of the content and level of disturbance Can use the What-If Technique to identify the patient's root fear Do positive reframing ONLY ONCE – otherwise can become a big reassurance (e.g., you are a good person, etc.) Here is a driving analogy for how we don't lose our core values or safety just because anxiety has decreased. For example, think of when you first started learning how to drive. Where was your anxiety 0-100? Mine was probably about 90%. This was tied to the values of wanting to stay safe, keep other's safe, valuing people's lives and my own life. Think of where your anxiety with driving is now, 0-100, after you've driven almost every day for months or years. Mine is mostly around 0-5%, unless I'm next to a semi, then it's maybe at 10%. Did you find that your morals and values changed once your anxiety decreased? Did you suddenly start to drive recklessly without caring about others' well-being? Most likely not. This will be the same with our work with OCD. Through exposure, your anxiety around your obsessions will also be dialed way down, but your moral compass and values will still stay intact. 5. Use Burns' Triple Paradox for compulsions Goes beyond moment in time: make a list of all compulsions – want to stop all of them (response prevention). Go back to moment in time, list benefits of compulsions, values, and cost of change She described Voicing the Resistance (also known as Externalization of Resistance): The therapist might say: “Let's look at this list of powerful benefits of your compulsions, the important values it shows about you, and all the costs of change. Given all those powerful reasons to keep your compulsions, why would you want to do this work to let go of them? “After all, your compulsion give you immediate relief from your anxiety.” "Then the therapist can review the entire list of benefits and costs of change, and ask, ”Why in the world would they want to change considering x benefit and y cost?” 4. Motivation script: I rate the patient's motivation to get rid of compulsions (0-100) before and after the Triple Paradox, and after Voicing the Resistance. If Voicing the Resistance boosted their motivation to change, I have clients write out or record their responses when we went through Voicing the Resistance. Their homework is to read this motivation script or listen to the audio recording of it it every day and as needed, knowing that there will be moments when the temptation to engage in the compulsion is 100%. 7. M = Methods: Thai-An, do not used any traditional cognitive tools (e.g., id distortions, double standard, examine the evidence), but David does and finds them to be helpful, just not the whole ball of wax! Thai-An points out that John Hershfield, MFT, a major author in the OCD field also talks about using identify the distortions to build awareness. Of course, David sees a missive contribution of TEAM-CBT methods that goes way beyond building "awareness." Address self-doubt in their ability to change with TEAM structure and cognitive tools Always explore hidden emotion first (case example of OCD cured by hidden emotion) Here and now exposure as obsessions come up Fear hierarchy In Vivo Exposure (case examples) – exposures in real life Imaginal exposure – exposures in your mind Anything that can't be done in vivo Only with the most disturbing obsession (flooding Uncover core fear with What If Technique You can use David's Devil's Advocate for the compulsions Rate how tempting it is to engage in compulsion (0-100) E.g., OCD: You really should replay that memory one more time to make sure you didn't molest your baby; Client: That's OCD talking and I'm choosing to move forward with my life. Record this and then process the experience after exposure: What happened during the exposure? Did your fear come true? Were you able to tolerate the distress? How was the outcome different from what you expected? What surprised you about the outcome? What did you learn from this exercises? What could you do to vary this exposure? Relapse Prevention Training should always be done following the initial recovery.. Thanks for tuning in today! Rhonda, Thia-An, and David Thai-An practices in Oklahoma City, but teaches online for everyone. For more information about her clinical work, visit www.lastingchangetherapy.com. For information about r her TEAM-CBT training, visit www.teamcbttraining.com. Through her training website, you can sign up for her free TEAM-CBT webinars, which are held every other month. Her upcoming TEAM-CBT Conference in Oklahoma will be from March 30-April 1, 2022. Here's the info about the conference: TEAM-CBT Conference: Practical Tools for Overcoming Anxiety, Depression & Addictions Get more info, register, and pay here: www.teamcbttraining.com/conference Dates: Wed, March 30th - Fri, April 1st Times: Wed: 9:00-5:30 CDT, Thurs & Fri 9:00-5:00. CEUs: 20 CEUs approved for Oklahoman psychologists, LPCs, LMFTs, LADCs, & LCSWs, including 3 of ethics and 10 specific alcohol and drug hours. 20 TEAM-CBT Certification Units approved. Any therapist can attend, but CEUs only for Oklahomans at this time. Must attend the conference in full to get your CEUs/certification units. Not late arrivals or early departures. Perks: 25% off coupon for Dr. Burns's tools 50% off Level 1 TEAM-CBT Certification through FGI Lots of interactive, practical learning through didactics, live demos, and a live session to show the TEAM treatment process from beginning to end. You'll also see a recording of my habits & addictions process with a woman working on decreasing alcohol use. Dipti Joshi, PhD will be joining us all the way from India and will help to teach uncovering techniques on Thursday morning.
Cinnamon Babe Stormi Maya returns to chat with us about her nu metal music album Cinnamon Babe. First single "Pure O" drops this coming Friday, March 11th YouTube https://youtube.com/c/CinnamonBabe Instagram https://instagram.com/cinnamonbabemusic?utm_medium=copy_link
Contact me for a free session, visit: www.robertjamescoaching.com Pure O is actually very common, however the name is a little misleading. Today we take a look at what Pure O is and how you can start dealing with it better. Disclaimer: Robert James Pizey (of Robert James Coaching) is not a medical professional and is also not providing therapy or medical treatment. Robert James Pizey recommends that anyone experiencing anxiety or OCD to seek professional medical help straight away to get a medical opinion and rule out other conditions or illnesses. The comments and opinions as written on this site are simply that and are not to be taken as professional medical opinions. Robert James Pizey provides coaching, education, accountability and peer support around Anxiety through his own personal experiences.
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