Podcasts about team cbt

Is it Time for a New Approach to Emotional Suffering? Advantages and Disadvantages of DSM Diagnoses Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Episode Summary In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. David Burns and host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT explore a topic that shapes nearly every corner of modern mental health care: psychiatric diagnosis. For decades, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) has defined how clinicians diagnose, treat, and research emotional suffering. But what if many of these diagnostic categories don't represent distinct medical diseases? What if they are simply normal human emotions—like sadness, anxiety, or shame—occurring on a spectrum? Dr. Burns draws on decades of clinical experience, research, and insights from TEAM-CBT to question the assumptions behind psychiatric labeling. While diagnoses can sometimes reduce stigma or help people access care, they can also unintentionally shape identity, medicalize everyday emotional struggles, and distract from the real drivers of emotional pain. This episode offers a nuanced conversation about labels, measurement, therapy, and what actually helps people recover from depression and anxiety. In This Episode You'll Learn What the DSM is—and why it became so influential How the DSM functions as the "diagnostic bible" of psychiatry Why the system was originally designed for research standardization, not necessarily for everyday clinical treatment The difference between true mental disorders and normal emotional experiences Examples of genuine brain disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar I disorder Why many DSM diagnoses describe normal emotions taken to an extreme How everyday struggles became medical diagnoses Shyness becoming "social anxiety disorder" Chronic worry becoming "generalized anxiety disorder" Why time-based thresholds (like "14 days of depression") can be arbitrary The unintended consequences of diagnostic labels How labels can reinforce feelings of shame or defectiveness Why diagnoses can sometimes lead to over-medicalization and medication-focused care Why measurement matters more than diagnosis in therapy Dr. Burns explains how simple mood scales can quickly assess a patient's emotional state Research showing that DSM diagnoses often add little predictive value for treatment outcomes A surprising research finding After lengthy diagnostic interviews, clinicians were only 3–5% accurate at estimating patients' feelings in the moment What this reveals about the limits of traditional diagnostic approaches Why focusing on thoughts may be the key According to cognitive research, negative thoughts drive emotional suffering Effective therapy focuses on identifying and transforming these thoughts Hope for people who feel defined by a diagnosis Why diagnoses do not determine your ability to recover How targeted cognitive techniques can sometimes produce rapid improvements—even within a single session Benefits of Diagnosis (According to Dr. Burns) While the episode critiques diagnostic labeling, the conversation also highlights situations where diagnoses can help: Access to insurance coverage Eligibility for disability or academic accommodations Temporary relief from self-blame Clear communication in research studies Key Takeaway Mental health diagnoses can sometimes be useful administrative tools—but they should never define who you are. Real healing often comes from understanding the specific thoughts, moments, and experiences that drive emotional pain, and learning practical methods to change them. Mentioned in This Episode Dr. Burns' article: "Is It Time for a New Approach to Emotional Suffering?" (Psychology Today) TEAM-CBT approach to psychotherapy Brief Mood Survey and other measurement tools used in therapy Memorable Quote "We treat humans, not disorders." Connect & Learn More Read Dr. Burns' latest articles on Psychology Today Explore more tools and resources at FeelingGood.com Learn about TEAM-CBT training and techniques If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, sharing the podcast, or leaving a review. It helps more people discover tools for overcoming depression and anxiety. Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app. Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!

COMING UP IN JUNE: Fast Track to LEVEL 3 TEAM CBT Certification Hi there! If you're a therapist looking to strengthen your TEAM CBT skills and earn continuing education credit, here's an exceptional opportunity coming up in June 2026. Feeling Good Institute's Fast Track to Level 3 TEAM CBT Certification Starts June 22, 2026 • 25 weeks • 46 CEs Special Offer for Podcast Listeners: Use discount code FRIEND for a course price of $795. Learn More and Enroll Now at FastTrackCBT.com. If you want to level up your therapy skills for the rest of your career, this may be the ideal time.

Ask David: Is High Speed Change a Quick Fix? Trauma, Anxiety, and What Really Works Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Guest: Dr. Rhonda Barovsky Episode Summary In this powerful Ask David episode, Dr. David Burns, Kevin Cornelius, and Dr. Rhonda Barovsky tackle two deeply important listener questions: Is rapid emotional recovery just a "quick fix," especially for people with severe trauma? How can someone manage intense anxiety and "what if" thoughts in the moment—when they keep coming back? Through vivid clinical stories, real examples from the Feeling Great app, and live demonstrations of TEAM-CBT techniques, the panel explores why working in the present moment can lead to profound and lasting emotional change—even for people with severe trauma histories. Question 1: Is Fast Change Just a "Quick Fix"? Dr. Burns responds to a question inspired by the story of Elise, a Holocaust survivor who recovered from severe depression after challenging a single, devastating belief: "I've never accomplished anything meaningful in my life." When that belief was overturned, Elise's depression disappeared—immediately. Listeners often wonder: Was something deeper left unresolved? Doesn't trauma require long-term exploration of the past? Dr. Burns shares: 50 years of clinical experience producing rapid, measurable symptom elimination Research from the Feeling Great app showing that current thoughts—not past suffering—predict change Why working in the present moment automatically transforms the past Why many therapy schools rely on belief systems rather than data He also discusses new findings (recently published in Psychology Today) showing that prior depression over the last two years adds zero predictive value once current mood and thoughts are addressed. "The moment you're in is vastly more important than the one you remember." Question 2: What If My Anxious Thoughts Keep Coming Back? The second question comes from Dina, a college student overwhelmed by social anxiety and catastrophic "what if" thoughts about meeting with her professor. Despite successfully completing a Daily Mood Log and reducing her anxiety to near zero, Dina finds that the thoughts keep returning in real-life situations. The team explains why this happens—and what to do next. Key strategies discussed: Why cognitive work alone isn't enough for anxiety The importance of exposure and testing fears in real situations Using self-disclosure to dissolve shame Turning anxiety into connection rather than avoidance Role-playing feared scenarios ("Professor from Hell") Externalization of voices Feared fantasy and "what-if" techniques Shame-attacking exercises Asking for real feedback instead of guessing what others think Identifying hidden emotions (such as unexpressed anger) Understanding interpersonal roles and rules that fuel anxiety Multiple techniques are demonstrated live, showing how anxiety collapses when fears are brought into the open with warmth, humor, and honesty. Key Takeaways Rapid emotional change is not a gimmick—it can be measured, replicated, and sustained Trauma is embedded in the present moment, not trapped in the past Anxiety persists when we hide, not when we feel Exposure + self-disclosure = freedom You don't need to eliminate negative thoughts—just stop believing them The Feeling Great app offers free, evidence-based tools anyone can use Tools & Resources Mentioned Feeling Great App (free): https://feelinggreat.com Daily Mood Log TEAM-CBT tools: Motivational Methods Cognitive Techniques Exposure Hidden Emotion Work Five Secrets of Effective Communication Psychology Today article: "The Moment You're In Is Vastly More Important Than the One You Remember" Memorable Quotes "When we change the present, we change the past." — Dr. David Burns "Shame is like a vampire—it can't survive the light of day." "Stop doing one thing and expecting it to work for everyone." "You don't need to be perfect to feel better." Listener Invitation Have a question you'd like Dr. Burns to answer on a future episode? Submit it through the Feeling Great app or the Feeling Good Podcast website. Kevin, Rhonda, and I thank you for listening today!  Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at kevin@feelinggoodinstitute.com and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky is a Level 5 Certified TEAM-CBT Master Therapist and Trainer and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. Check out her website: www.feelinggreattherapycenter.com. You can reach Dr. Burns at david@feelinggood.com. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app. Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!

  500: Celebrating Rhonda's Triumphant Leadership - and a Sad Goodbye In this very special 500th episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, Matt May, Jill Levitt and I pause to celebrate a remarkable milestone, our 500th episode of the Feeling Good podcast, and to honor someone who has been at the heart of it for the past 273 episodes: Rhonda Barovsky Since stepping into the role of host, Rhonda has brought warmth, wisdom, curiosity, and deep compassion to every conversation. Her presence has helped shape the podcast into a trusted space for learning, healing, personal growth, and building the TEAM community. Week after week, she has guided thoughtful discussions on mood, relationships, anxiety, depression, and the many challenges of being human—with authenticity and grace. Rhonda's unique ability to ask meaningful questions, highlight practical tools, and connect with listeners has made an immeasurable impact. Whether exploring TEAM CBT techniques or sharing personal reflections, she has helped countless listeners feel seen, understood, and empowered. As Rhonda steps down from her role as host, this episode is dedicated to celebrating her contributions and expressing deep gratitude for all she has given to this community. In this episode, we: Reflect on Rhonda's journey with the podcast and how she became such an integral part of its success Highlight memorable moments and favorite episodes from her time as host Share behind-the-scenes stories and personal reflections Express appreciation from listeners and the broader Feeling Good community This is not goodbye—it's a transition. Rhonda leaves behind a powerful legacy and a strong foundation that will continue to inspire future episodes and listeners around the world. Thank you, Rhonda, for your dedication, your heart, and your unwavering commitment to helping people feel better. And to our listeners: thank you for being part of these 500 episodes. We're so glad you're here—and we're excited for what comes next as Kevin Cornelius steps into the role of the Feeling Good Podcast host.  Welcome, Kevin! Warmly, David, Rhonda, Matt and Jill

Inside the Therapy Room: A Live TEAM CBT Session with Hiral-- The Exciting Conclusion! Part 2 of 2 Overview What an incredible day. David and I had the privilege of working with Hiral, a young mother from India who was drowning in perfectionism, self-criticism, and the crushing weight of trying to be everything to everyone. Over the course of about two hours, we watched her transform from someone scoring 100% on depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, and hopelessness to feeling peaceful, relaxed, and genuinely joyful—with most scores dropping to zero. This wasn't magic. It was TEAM-CBT done systematically, with measurement, genuine empathy, paradoxical agenda setting, and powerful cognitive techniques. And yes, Hiral did most of the heavy lifting herself once we got out of her way. For those of you who attended or are reading this summary, I want to walk you through what happened—not just what we did, but why it worked. Because here's the thing: this will look deceptively simple. That's the trap. TEAM-CBT is among the hardest therapeutic approaches to master, precisely because each step exists on multiple levels and requires you to change before your patients can change. Let's dig in. The Setup: Who Was Hiral? Hiral is a mother of an almost-four-year-old son, living in a joint family in Gujarat, India, with her husband and in-laws. She's also studying to become a TEAM-CBT therapist herself, preparing for her Level 3 certification exam. But beneath these roles, Hiral was suffering: Feeling like a failure as a mother Constant self-criticism and perfectionism Trapped in a rigid family environment with little emotional support Isolated from friends, her own parents, and the vibrant life she once had Plagued by guilt, shame, anxiety, and hopelessness—all at 100% Sound familiar? I'll bet many of you have worked with someone like Hiral. Or maybe you've been Hiral at some point in your life. I know I have. T = Testing: The Emotional X-Ray Before we even said hello to Hiral, she completed the Brief Mood Survey—David's ultra-reliable, ultra-short measures of depression, anxiety, anger, happiness, and relationship satisfaction right now, in this moment. Her scores were staggering: Depression: 11/20 (moderate, with "sad," "down," and "hopeless" all elevated) Anxiety: 14/20 (moderate to severe) Anger: 14/20 (same intensity as anxiety) Happiness: 8/20 (very low) Relationship Satisfaction: 10/30 (significant dissatisfaction with her husband) Why this matters: Most therapists never measure how their patients feel. They think they know, but research shows therapist accuracy is around 3-10% on depression, suicidality, anxiety, and anger. Zero percent on suicidal urges. Think about that. Without measurement, you're flying blind. With it, you have an emotional X-ray that shows you exactly where the patient is hurting—and later, exactly how much you've helped (or haven't). TEAM-CBT Pearl: Testing isn't optional. It's the foundation. Measure at the start of every session, and measure again at the end. If you're scared to see the results, that's your ego talking. E = Empathy: The Zero Technique For the first 30-40 minutes, David and I did... nothing. Well, not nothing—we listened. We used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication: Disarming Technique: Finding truth in what Hiral said Thought Empathy: Paraphrasing her thoughts Feeling Empathy: Acknowledging her emotions Inquiry: Asking gentle questions to help her open up Stroking: Conveying warmth and respect But here's the key: we gave her nothing. No advice. No cheerleading. No problem-solving. We call this the Zero Technique—giving the patient nothing is actually giving them everything, because what they want most is to feel understood. The Empathy Pitfall: DO NOT PREACH Early in empathy, it's tempting to: Problem-solve Rescue Educate Advise Cheerlead Help Resist. Your job is to go with your patient to the gates of hell and just be with them there. Checking Our Empathy After about 30 minutes, we asked Hiral to grade us on three dimensions (A, B, C, D, or F): Thought Empathy: How well did we understand her negative thoughts? Feeling Empathy: How well did we acknowledge her emotions? Warmth & Acceptance: Did she feel cared about and accepted? She gave us two A's and hesitated on the third. Why? She didn't feel we could truly understand her cultural context—the joint family system, the rigid in-laws, the isolation from her friends and parents. She felt alone even with us. This was gold. Instead of getting defensive, we leaned in. David shared his own experience living near in-laws with vastly different values. I shared my own struggles with perfectionism and parenting anxiety. Hiral started to cry—not from sadness, but from finally feeling seen. TEAM-CBT Pearl: When you get a failing grade on empathy, celebrate. It's your chance to deepen the connection. Process the failure with your patient, and watch the breakthrough happen.

Inside the Therapy Room: A Live TEAM CBT Session with Hiral Part 1 of 2 Overview What an incredible day. David and I had the privilege of working with Hiral, a young mother from India who was drowning in perfectionism, self-criticism, and the crushing weight of trying to be everything to everyone. Over the course of about two hours, we watched her transform from someone scoring 100% on depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, and hopelessness to feeling peaceful, relaxed, and genuinely joyful—with most scores dropping to zero. This wasn't magic. It was TEAM-CBT done systematically, with measurement, genuine empathy, paradoxical agenda setting, and powerful cognitive techniques. And yes, Hiral did most of the heavy lifting herself once we got out of her way. For those of you who attended or are reading this summary, I want to walk you through what happened—not just what we did, but why it worked. Because here's the thing: this will look deceptively simple. That's the trap. TEAM-CBT is among the hardest therapeutic approaches to master, precisely because each step exists on multiple levels and requires you to change before your patients can change. Let's dig in. The Setup: Who Was Hiral? Hiral is a mother of an almost-four-year-old son, living in a joint family in Gujarat, India, with her husband and in-laws. She's also studying to become a TEAM-CBT therapist herself, preparing for her Level 3 certification exam. But beneath these roles, Hiral was suffering: Feeling like a failure as a mother Constant self-criticism and perfectionism Trapped in a rigid family environment with little emotional support Isolated from friends, her own parents, and the vibrant life she once had Plagued by guilt, shame, anxiety, and hopelessness—all at 100% Sound familiar? I'll bet many of you have worked with someone like Hiral. Or maybe you've been Hiral at some point in your life. I know I have. T = Testing: The Emotional X-Ray Before we even said hello to Hiral, she completed the Brief Mood Survey—David's ultra-reliable, ultra-short measures of depression, anxiety, anger, happiness, and relationship satisfaction right now, in this moment. Her scores were staggering: Depression: 11/20 (moderate, with "sad," "down," and "hopeless" all elevated) Anxiety: 14/20 (moderate to severe) Anger: 14/20 (same intensity as anxiety) Happiness: 8/20 (very low) Relationship Satisfaction: 10/30 (significant dissatisfaction with her husband) Why this matters: Most therapists never measure how their patients feel. They think they know, but research shows therapist accuracy is around 3-10% on depression, suicidality, anxiety, and anger. Zero percent on suicidal urges. Think about that. Without measurement, you're flying blind. With it, you have an emotional X-ray that shows you exactly where the patient is hurting—and later, exactly how much you've helped (or haven't). TEAM-CBT Pearl: Testing isn't optional. It's the foundation. Measure at the start of every session, and measure again at the end. If you're scared to see the results, that's your ego talking. E = Empathy: The Zero Technique For the first 30-40 minutes, David and I did... nothing. Well, not nothing—we listened. We used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication: Disarming Technique: Finding truth in what Hiral said Thought Empathy: Paraphrasing her thoughts Feeling Empathy: Acknowledging her emotions Inquiry: Asking gentle questions to help her open up Stroking: Conveying warmth and respect But here's the key: we gave her nothing. No advice. No cheerleading. No problem-solving. We call this the Zero Technique—giving the patient nothing is actually giving them everything, because what they want most is to feel understood. The Empathy Pitfall: DO NOT PREACH Early in empathy, it's tempting to: Problem-solve Rescue Educate Advise Cheerlead Help Resist. Your job is to go with your patient to the gates of hell and just be with them there. Checking Our Empathy After about 30 minutes, we asked Hiral to grade us on three dimensions (A, B, C, D, or F): Thought Empathy: How well did we understand her negative thoughts? Feeling Empathy: How well did we acknowledge her emotions? Warmth & Acceptance: Did she feel cared about and accepted? She gave us two A's and hesitated on the third. Why? She didn't feel we could truly understand her cultural context—the joint family system, the rigid in-laws, the isolation from her friends and parents. She felt alone even with us. This was gold. Instead of getting defensive, we leaned in. David shared his own experience living near in-laws with vastly different values. I shared my own struggles with perfectionism and parenting anxiety. Hiral started to cry—not from sadness, but from finally feeling seen. TEAM-CBT Pearl: When you get a failing grade on empathy, celebrate. It's your chance to deepen the connection. Process the failure with your patient, and watch the breakthrough happen. Next week, Part 2, the exciting conclusion of the live session with Hiral!  

Show notes can be found here: https://theipsproject.com/2026/04/reason-we-stay-addicted-kevin-cornelius/Addiction is complex, deeply human, and often misunderstood.In this episode, we take a grounded and practical look at what addiction really is and how it can be treated effectively.I'm joined by Kevin Cornelius, a licensed marriage and family therapist and clinical director at the Feeling Good Institute Silicon Valley. Kevin specializes in TEAM-CBT, a powerful and evolving therapeutic approach developed by psychiatrist David Burns.What I am hoping you get out of this episode, besides learning some of the reasons why people stay addicted, is that you will learn some practical techniques to start taking a small step toward freeing yourself from whichever addiction you might be struggling with.If, after this episode, you'd like to learn more about the effects addiction has on the brain, do have a listen to the episode I did with Dr. Grisel, titled The Brain on Addiction.

Why Isn't TEAM More Popular? Why Do So Many Therapists Resist TEAM CBT? Featuring Matt May, MD Why has the therapeutic community been so resistant to TEAM? This topic has been a concern to me or many years. To be honest, it isn't new. From the very start of cognitive therapy, when I was first learning it, I began modifying it to make it more dynamic, powerful, and effective. But to be honest, I ran into a small (at the time) of Beck loyalists who branded me as an "outsider," something Beck also did when my book, Feeling Good, began to sell and gain popularity. This saddened and frustrated me, and still does, but it had some great spin-off. On my own, my ideas and approaches grew rapidly, and there was no scarcity of young therapists who wanted to work with me.  Below, you will ready Matt's take on why TEAM CBT has not caught on better, followed by my own thoughts. So read, and enjoy, and feel free to share your own thinking on this topic!  On the live podcast, you will hear our lively discussion with our beloved and brilliant host, Rhonda! Thanks for listening today!  Matt, Rhonda, and David Matt's take: Hi David, I'm excited to discuss this topic!  Also, I agree we would be hard-pressed to cover it in an hour, which I believe is the goal for the podcast. So, why isn't TEAM isn't more popular?  My short answer is that TEAM isn't more popular because many therapists don't want to learn it. Those reasons will vary from one person to another and relate to concepts in the model, itself, like 'process resistance' and 'outcome resistance'. While biological factors, like deficits in cognitive flexibility and neuroplasticity, the 'primacy effect' and age-related changes in the brain, combined with the complexity of the TEAM model, will make it near-impossible for some folks to learn it, these barriers are hard to address with our current technology For the purpose of this conversation, it probably makes more sense to consider the psychological barriers therapists have to adopting a model that is scientifically proven to be superior to other approaches.  As a proponent of TEAM and an instructor, I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong, in presenting the model and how to get more people excited about learning it.  While more research would help us see the problem more clearly, here are some factors that likely play a role: It seems humans have a hard time adopting new truths, regardless of the field being considered. I believe it was Schopenhauer who said all new truths go through three phases on the way to acceptance:  People will ridicule it, violently oppose it, then say they knew it all along as self-evident! One cause of this is something called the 'primacy effect'. People preferentially retain the first version of a story they hear.  If that information is corrected, later, they will continue to believe the first version they heard.  Biological Factors play a role in learning, including genetics, aging, illness and toxic exposure. 'Switching gears', mentally, is more challenging in people with Schizophrenia and their first-degree relatives, for example.  We know that neuroplasticity is greatest in our youth and declines over our lifespan.  Hence the importance of early education and attending to our overall health, habits, nutrition and medical care.       Socioeconomic and Cultural factors certainly play a role.  This is well documented in the book, 'The Emperor's New Drugs', showing how marketing prevailed over science in promoting "antidepressants".  Many therapists in training tell me, 'oh, they wouldn't let me use a measurement tool where I work'.   Lack of 'Critical Thinking'. What people believe often has nothing to do with what is evidence-based or logical.  Many people reject global warming despite the evidence and prefer to believe in conspiracy theories.  We tend to preferentially believe what someone says if we feel a kinship or loyalty to that person or view them as an 'expert'. People might believe RFK Jr. when he says immunizations are dangerous, for example, because he is in their political party and in a position of power, rather than review the science for themselves. Sunk-Cost Fallacy:  People who have gone through training may have a sense that they have invested too much time and money in their education to discard that model and start afresh. Even if we covered this in just a few minutes, we'd still be up against the hardest part of TEAM to learn, Agenda Setting.   Lots of 'Good Reasons' NOT to have open hands, explore topics paradoxically, and reasons this is challenging, technically. So, yeah, we'll have a lot to discuss and I'm looking forward to that! Sincerely, Matt Here is David's list Taking a page out of your book, Matt, our field is filled with so-called "schools" of therapy that function much like cults, most with a narcissistic "leader" at the helm. In a cult, members are required to be absolutely loyal, and to believe in claims the guru makes that have little or no evidence to back them up. For example, most "schools" of therapy claim to know "the" cause of emotional distress, when the causes of depression and other forms of emotional disturbance are still not known. What I have been suggesting is that we get rid of all the schools of therapy and usher in a new era of science-based, data-driven therapy, which would amount to a revolution in our field. This idea, which I feel passionate about, always meets with stiff and hostel opposition / push back. People just don't want to hear it. TEAM integrates high-level empathy and compassion with firm accountability. Give Stanford story with Sunny Choi, and the statement that "Stanford graduate students and faculty cannot be held accountable for doing psychotherapy homework. The need insight-oriented therapy!" This angrily issued statement conveyed, actually, two cult-like (to my thinking) components: First, we KNOW that patients should not be asked to do psychotherapy homework between sessions. Second, we KNOW that "insight-oriented therapy" is the treatment, without ever evaluating them. TEAM focuses on the here and now, and emphasize a "fractal" approach to treatment, where the same distortions and self-defeating beliefs will be embedded in the patient's negative thoughts and feelings every time she or he is upset. So, when you change the present, you have already changed the past. Whereas most therapies have traditionally (and still) focus on the past, thinking they will find the cause of the patient's distress in some pattern or traumatic event. TEAM focuses on rapid change in the here and now, where as many (most?) therapies focus on talk therapy that unfolds slowly, over a period of months, years, or even more. This DOES provide a powerful financial incentive to do "talk therapy," since this drastically provides financial security and reduces the incredible pressure of constantly have to find new patients. TEAM is very challenging to learn. I have taught over 50,000 therapists in the past 35 years or more, through my supervision of graduate students and psychiatric residents, my weekly training group at Stanford, and my workshops, including intensive, around the US and Canada. And one lesson that has emerged is just how difficult it is to learn TEAM. It requires a high level of intelligence and aptitude, and an unusual dedication and commitment. A great many of the most important tools, like Assessment of Resistance, and Externalization of Voices with the CAT, Self-Defense, and the Acceptance Paradox, are extremely difficult to learn and master.  And most give up, and drop out, in favor of some simpler and more formulaic therapy that is easy to learn. TEAM training requires constant role-playing with specific and immediate feedback on your performance, which includes bot a letter grade (A, B, C, etc.) as well as what you did that was effective, and where you fell short and might need to fine-tune your technique with frequent role reversals, always with feedback. This means lots of criticism along the way, which many (most?) therapists do not like. And although we repeatedly emphasize the philosophy of "joyous failure," and "learning through failure," most people do not buy it emotionally. We all want success and compliments! And NOT the "great death" of the self." The "great death" permeates every phase of the T E A M process. At the T = Testing, you will nearly always learn that your perceptions of your patients feel, and how they feel about you, are way off base. This is critically important, but painful for most, as it is a direct body blow to our "need" to be in the role of "expert." Unlike most other forms of therapy, we require therapists to measure patients' feelings, "in the here and now," at the start and end of every therapy session, using brief, highly reliable scales that assess feelings of depression, suicidal urges, anxiety, anger, and also happiness, as well as relationship satisfaction or discord. These scales function like an "emotional X-ray machine," allowing therapists for the first time to see exactly how effective or ineffective you were in every therapy session. Can you take it? On the positive side, this information will allow you to fine tune the therapy and learn from all of your patients every day. On the negative side, you may not want to have to "see" your failures before your eyes at every session with every patient. David: Tell the story of Tuesday group patient who proudly showed me her depression (and other scores) over the previous year with one of her patients. . . But there was absolutely no improvement in any scale. This was shocking and it made me very sad. My goal is to get dramatic changes within a single session. This "great death" continues during the E phase. TEAM therapists are required to ask "What's my grade on empathy" during the session, and also patients fill out the Empathy Scale and other scales on the "Patient's Evaluation of Therapy Session" right after the session. These scales are set up to make therapist failure common, almost universal at first. A warm and curious dialogue about where the therapist went wrong can revolutionize the therapy and deepen the relationship—quickly. But at what cost to the fragile ego of the insecure shrink? The "great death" continues with A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting. You give up your role as the "expert:" or "helper" or "rescuer," which many therapist refuse to do, and instead "become" the patient's subconscious resistance, arguing, with compassion and logic, that there are many GOOD reasons NOT to change. This freaks therapists out! The "great death" continues with the M = Methods phase of the session. I have developed roughly 140 methods to help people challenge distorted negative thoughts and self-defeating beliefs, and have always taught that no one method will work for everyone who's depressed and anxious. So you will have to try many methods, using the Recovery Circle, to find the one that works for each patient. But these methods are challenging to learn, and most therapists don't seem to have the intelligence, aptitude, or commitment to learning how to use them. Many of the methods and insights of TEAM or subtle nuances that many therapists do not "get" or perhaps do not want to "get." Example, the ACT training group, where someone held up the Feeling Good book and said, "We do not want THIS!" They falsely believed that "leaning into" your feelings is always the answer, and wrong believed that TEAM tried to make people happy all the time—called Toxic Positivity—whereas nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, I mentioned healthy negative feelings as early as, I think, Chapter 3 in Feeling Good, "Sadness is Not Depression," where I told the story of an elderly man who died on the Stanford inpatient medical service one evening when I was a medical student. Much of what I teach is shocking and at odds with what people are taught in graduate school. For example, the idea that most people with depression and anxiety—NOT everybody!—can be effectively treated in a single, extended therapy session. Curses! That sounds horrible! And even worse-sounding is the idea that change typically happens suddenly, at the very moment patients stop believing their distorted thoughts. Of course, since most therapists have not seen these phenomena, due perhaps to not having the skill, they insist instead that David is some type of fool, liar, or con artis. Okee Dokee! People—therapists and patients alike—do not "get" a great many of the key ideas in TEAM. For example, let's say the socially anxious patient totally believes the thought, "I shouldn't be so screwed up!" the necessary and sufficient conditions for emotional change. The necessary condition: The Positive Thought (PT) must be 100% true. Rationalizations and half-truths have never helped anybody. The sufficient condition: The PT must drastically reduce your belief in the negative thought. And that's when your negative thoughts will suddenly change. There is even more of what I teach is shocking and at odds with what people believe. For example, 2,000 years ago Epictetus stated they key premise of all the cognitive therapies: "People are disturbed, not by things, or events, but by the views they have of them". And recently, our research team has provided proof of this for the first time, in a study of nearly 7,000 users of our Feeling Great app, using sophisticated statistical modeling techniques. So, the three tenants of cognitive therapies, including TEAM, are: First, you FEEL the way you THINK. In other words, all of your positive and negative feelings result from your thoughts in the here-and-now. Second, depression and anxiety are the world's oldest cons. In other words, your negative thoughts, like "I'm not as good as I should be," or "I'm a hopeless case,"—will be loaded with many of the ten cognitive distortions and are extremely misleading—but you don't realize this when you're upset. You will believe these thoughts with all your heart and feel CERTAIN that they are 100% true. Third, you can CHANGE the way you FEEL. But lots of people will won't have it. They keep insisting on theories that simply aren't true—that emotions cause thoughts, for example—and on methods that may have little or no "punch" above and beyond the placebo effect. Story of Tuesday group student who was scolded in her graduate school counseling program for using the words "thought" or cognition during a therapy session. She was told ONLY to focus on feelings. Many people—therapists and patients alike—strongly believe that therapist empathy is THE key to healing. I have developed many powerful empathy tracking and training methods, but our clinical experience and research has shown, over and over, that therapist empathy is NOT the key to healing. They keys involve using TEAM systematically, and the rapid healing happens during the A and M for the most part. But those are the hard parts! Other problems include the idea that we can convert normal human emotional distress into a series of "mental disorders" that are listed in the DSM, the "bible" of the American Psychiatric Association. In TEAM, we consider each patient's patterns of suffering at the start of therapy, quickly and easily screened by the EASY Diagnostic System, but monitor therapy and patient progress with simple tools that measure feelings, like depression, anxiety, anger, and more. But this is an argument for another day. There's a lot more issues, too. Have I, David, contributed to the resistance to TEAM? Absolutely I have. I plead guilty as accused, and I'm proud of it. I'm totally aware that people—maybe even you— get turned off by criticism, and naturally recoil to protect your "in group," as Matt so clearly pointed out, and maintain loyalty to your "leader," whether it's Freud, Jung, Beck, Hayes, Rogers, or whoever. People are more emotional than rational, and people can be intentionally cruel and deceptive, too, all in the name of what they believe. We see that in our politics these days too. People believe things that are totally false, and wildly implausible, because the group or leader says it's true, it's the way things are. I'm a strong believer that science and truth will win out in the long run. Is this inevitable? I'm not totally confident, and have my doubts, but I am also filled with hope, and look to a future with more therapists like our beloved Matt May, MD and others who have dared to venture in a radically new direction, much like the early astronomers like Galileo and Copernicus who dared to challenge the superstitious teachings of the Catholic church. Those brave and brilliant early souls said, "things are NOT the way you think!" And they used data and mathematical modeling to prove their points. But there were a hundreds years of intimidation and suffering until people finally began to catch on to the then-ridiculous and outrageous ideas that the sun does NOT actually revolve around the earth, and that the earth is NOT the center of the universe. Those NOTS changed history. Can it happen again in the fields of psychiatry and psychotherapy? I hope so, and I've been giving my all, in my teaching, research, clinical work and writing, to make this happen. Sadly, I've fallen far short of my dream, but I'm thankful every day for what I've got, and the wonderful colleagues I'm privileged to know and love. Warmly, David, Matt and Rhonda

#495 Stop Helping! Here's How. Featuring Thai-An Truong on Codependency Thai-An Truong, LPC, LADC is a Certified TEAM-CBT Trainer, Level 5 and loves sharing tools and processes to help other therapists feel more confident, effective, and joyful in their work with their clients. In her private practice in Oklahoma, she is passionate about helping people heal from past trauma and OCD. She also has a special interest in helping her clients improve their relationships and overall connection with their partners and loved ones. We often hear the word, co-dependency thrown around. Today's podcast will be unique: you'll hear a totally brilliant and lucid explanation of how to treat it within the TEAM CBT model. It will be explained and illustrated with role-playing demonstrations by Rhonda and Thai-An. These demonstrations are fantastic! You'll love them! But let's start with what codependency is. I'll give you my take on it first, as my understanding has been based on observation. I see it as the compulsive urge to help another person who appears to be hurting or struggling. Well, that's nothing wrong with that, for sure! But where it gets yucky is where there is an ongoing pattern of helping, followed by stuckness on the part of the person who is hurting, ending up with both parties feeling frustrated and angry. We've talked about this general topic a great deal on the show, and in fact, TEAM CBT emerged as a radical alternative to the compulsive, codependent "helping" we often see in the community of mental health professionals. And we've seen this too, among parents and their children. Rhonda and I have done many podcasts on the topic of "How to Help and How NOT to Help," (for example, #164: https://feelinggood.com/2019/10/28/164-how-to-help-and-how-not-to-help/). And we've done many, including a great recent podcast with Dr. Taylor Chesney, on how parents can talk to teens and children without trying to control or scold them—by forming a warm and respectful relationship, using the Five Secrets. According to a Google search, codependency involves "excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner, often characterized by neglecting one's own needs. The four main types of codependency are the Caretaker, Enabler, Controller, and Adjuster. These roles represent different ways individuals, often with low self-esteem, sacrifice their well-being to manage relationships." To get things started, Rhonda and Thai-An discuss he various definitions and meanings of co-dependency. Thai-An described an attractive woman she treated who ended up with an alcoholic man who gave her very little in terms of healthy emotional support or love. But she told herself, "He's the only one who's there for me. , , I won't be able to find anyone else." There's also a strong dimension of "I NEED to fix this person," as opposed to asking if they need help, and deciding whether you can actually meet their need. They also pointed out, with example, that "throwing help at people" (as I call it) actually forces them to resist. They talked about the shame involved in codependency, and then illustrated Option B: TEAM -CBT, where empathy is always a crucially important first step. Then you can move to the Triple Paradox, to help the codependent patient illuminate three crucial motivational pieces: Column 1: The positive rewards of trying to "help" this person. Column 2: The downside of changing and giving up this pattern. Column 3: What your codependency shows about you and your core values as a human being that's positive and awesome. Then after listing 20 to 30 or more powerful reasons to continue acting in a codependent manner, you can ask them if it's working for them, or if they can think of any reasons to change. So, right away, you are modeling a totally anti-codependent way of "helping" your codependent patient. Only then, if the patient can convince you that they really do want help, Thai-An and Rhonda modeled some kick-ass M = Methods that can be incredibly helpful, including, but not at all limited to: The co-dependency Double Standard Technique. The role play with Rhonda and Thai-An was eye-opening and jaw-dropping! The Devil's Advocate Technique when tempted to "help." The Decision-Making Tool The Externalization of Voices And many more. I want to thank you, Thai-An, and you, Rhonda, for a truly phenomenal podcast today. Awesome work! From Rhonda:  Speaking for me and Thai-An, it was our pleasure and honor to be on the podcast with you David!  And always a pleasure to learn with the brilliant Thai-An, one of the most phenomenal teachers and trainers in the TEAM community.

What if the old techniques don't work now? What can I do if I'm boring on dating apps? How do I balance TEAM CBT with Life? Do relapses come from out of the blue? Carlos continues with his question(s) first addressed on last week's podcast. He'd recovered from depression using TEAM CBT, but had a question about how to challenge his negative thoughts during a relapse, as well as how to balance TEAM CBT with life. Plus a dating question from a man who's never had a date! Today's questions begin here. Should I use a brand-new CBT technique to help me overcome my current negative thoughts? I've been using my previous solutions (Exposure Therapy and Daily Mood Log) however, they don't seem to help out as much as they used to. How do I balance Team CBT and life? I've been having a difficult time finding the right balance between Therapy and Life. Whenever I strictly do therapy, I feel good, but then feel sad that I sacrifice other activities in order to do the therapy. Inversely, whenever I do activities (while only occasionally doing therapy), I feel conned by my anxiety and feel as if I can't enjoy doing my activities. Can you relapse despite having no apparent issues in life? I'm currently on Christmas break, without much pressure to find a job. Yet despite this, I'm feeling more anxious right now than I was in university! How is this possible? Is there perhaps a hidden emotion or desire that I'm not expressing? Regardless of how negative I feel right now, I'm doing my absolute best to stay positive and keep working on myself with Team CBT. I'm looking forward to resolving my anxiety with the help of your awesome tools! It was an honor speaking with you, thank you for reading! -Carlos David's Answer Great question, and I'll give you a (hopefully) great answer on the podcast! But here's the quickie answer. Focus on one specific moment when you'd like to be feeling happier, or when you need help to become the person you want to be. Then use a Daily Mood Log, Habit / Addiction Log (HAL), or Relationship Journal, depending on what's needed. This is the exact same fractal concept we use in all of TEAM CBT! Warmly, david   I am overly sincere and boring on dating apps. What can I do to correct this? Michael writes: Hi Dr burns  I am 30 and never dated anyone. Whenever I start chatting on dating apps I seem very boring or sincere person how can I talk to someone in this? Regards, Michael (disguised name)

What can I do if I relapse? Good Morning Dr. Burns, I will make this email quick, as I'm sure you have several other emails to read through. First off, thank you so much for your research and contributions to TEAM CBT! My mother introduced me to this form of therapy in 2022, and it has been a big help in overcoming my extremely painful perfectionism anxiety. Unfortunately, after graduating from university, I've begun relapsing once again. As such, I would like to ask a few things Carlos: (His remaining questions will be answered on Podcast 494.) Is it harder to get out of a relapse than the first time? I feel as if my relapse has been a lot trickier to get out of, despite the fact I have more tools and techniques. David's response. This depends entirely on whether you've done Relapse Prevention Training to prepare for relapses ahead of time. You can read all about it in the last chapter of my most recent book, Feeling Great. You can also learn about RPT on a number of podcasts, and even hear me doing it live with many individuals at the end of their personal work. Here are two examples randomly chosen among dozens I have published. 427: https://feelinggood.com/2024/12/16/426-ask-david-dreading-the-day-solving-mother-daughter-problems-romance-and-more/ 389: https://feelinggood.com/2024/03/25/389-the-story-of-amy-part-2-of-2/ And you'll a great many more if you look. Just use the search function on my website and you'll find a wealth of podcasts on RPT. Short answer: If you HAVE recovered and done RPT (takes 30 minutes) it will usually be much easier for you to smash your negative thought(s), using the same methods that helped you the first time. If you HAVEN'T recovered and done RPT, it may be much more challenging. Thanks for the important question, Carlos!

Meet the Fantastic—and Controversial—Dr. David Healy Psychiatric Drug Companies-- What Are They NOT Telling Us? Today, we are thrilled to interview the famed and courageous Dr. David Healy. I have admired his work for many years, but never imagined I'd have the chance to meet him and chat with him. First things first. You may know Dr. David Healy for some of his highly controversial books, like "The Antidepressant Era," "Let Them Eat Prozac," and "Pharmageddon." But who is he, really? According to AI, Dr. David Healy is a prominent Welsh psychiatrist, psychopharmacologist, and critic of the pharmaceutical industry known for his research on antidepressants, their links to suicide, and exposing industry practices like ghostwriting and disease-mongering, operating through initiatives like RxISK.org to promote drug safety. He has a long history of challenging Big Pharma, facing academic backlash (like losing a University of Toronto post) for his views, and serving as an expert witness in legal cases involving psychotropic drugs, advocating for greater transparency and patient safety.  Healy initially worked with pharmaceutical companies, gaining firsthand knowledge of how SSRIs were marketed despite their trial weaknesses, focusing on the oversimplified serotonin hypothesis. He then became a vocal critic, highlighting issues like ghostwriting articles and manipulating academic opinion to sell drugs, leading to conflicts with industry-funded institutions. He founded RxISK.org, a platform for patients to report adverse drug reactions, aiming to make medicines safer. His strong stance (on research linking SSRI antidepressants to increased suicidal thoughts and urges) led to intense and corrosive controversy, including losing a professorship at the University of Toronto (though later settled as a visiting role) and harassment, noted here and here. In recent years, he has acted as an expert witness in cases involving drug-related suicides and homicides, bringing issues to regulators.  In essence, Dr. David Healy is a significant, often controversial, figure dedicated to drug safety, academic integrity, and patient awareness in psychiatry, challenging established narratives and industry power.  Taking a deeper dive, AI has added this critically important information: David Healy has discussed numerous examples of conflicts of interest that mainly involve the influence of the pharmaceutical industry on medical research, publication, and practice.  Key examples he has highlighted include: Ghostwriting of Articles: Pharmaceutical companies hire medical communication firms to draft research articles or reviews, and then get prominent academics or clinicians to put their names on the papers as the sole or primary authors, a practice known as ghostwriting. The named authors often have little to no involvement in the actual research or writing. Hiding or Misrepresenting Data: Drug companies have concealed unfavorable data or miscoded raw data on drug risks, such as the link between antidepressants and suicidal acts. This manipulation can make a drug appear safer or more effective than it actually is. Biased Clinical Trial Design: Healy notes instances where clinical trials are designed with "tricks," such as using inadequate or excessive doses of comparison medications to make the company's own drug look superior. Marketing-Driven Education: A large portion of continuing medical education (CME) classes for doctors are sponsored by industry. Healy argues this leads to a bias in the information presented to doctors, with an emphasis on the benefits of brand-name drugs rather than an objective assessment of all treatment options. Gifts and Payments to Physicians: Drug companies spend billions annually on marketing directed at doctors, including free samples, sales visits, and small non-educational gifts or lunches. Healy points out that while many doctors believe these gifts don't affect their own prescribing, studies show they influence prescribing patterns and create subtle biases. Industry Influence on Academia: Healy's own experience with a job offer being rescinded at the University of Toronto, which had received a large donation from a drug company (Eli Lilly), is a prominent case he uses to illustrate how industry funding can infringe upon academic freedom and stifle critical research. "Disease Mongering": Healy argues that the pharmaceutical industry often engages in "disease mongering," marketing conditions to the public and physicians to create a market for their products rather than simply addressing genuine medical needs.  So that hopefully gives you some idea of the scope of his work, and his vision of transparency and integrity in the reporting one the effectiveness and risks of psychotropic medications. In our conversation today, he emphasized the importance of listening to patients who describe side effects of medications, such as SSRIs, in described the efforts of Big Pharma to suppress such complaints, giving psychiatrists "talking points" to reassure and quiet concerned patients. In general, a main focus of his career has been to challenge and confront the efforts of drug companies to suppress negative information about their products and troublesome and dangerous side effects. He said that one of the rationales the drug companies use is to say that disseminating that type of information will discourage many potential patients from using their products, and therefore miss out on the potential benefits of the medications. In fact, they have a name for this, "treatment hesitancy," and discourage open discussion of negative effects for this reason. I asked Dr. Healy if he's experienced direct negative pushback from drug companies, and he gave a surprising answer—he said no, that the major pushback he's gotten has actually been from colleagues—psychiatrists who have bought the party line disseminated by the drug manufactures. For example, when he gave his famous talk at the University of Toronto on the increase in suicidal urges associated with SSRI antidepressants, a famous psychopharmacologist, Dr. Charlie Nemeroff, got him fired. Here's the story on Dr. Nemeroff, According to AI: In the late 2000s, Nemeroff faced investigations and sanctions from Emory University for failing to disclose significant speaking and consulting fees from pharmaceutical companies like GlaxoSmithKline, raising questions about research integrity and conflicts of interest, notes The BMJ and The New York Times.  Although the antidepressant effects of SSRIs are controversial and hotly debated, their effects on the nervous system are not. Dr. Healy's research indicates that they have a suppression effect on the nervous system, which dulls the senses, and this can happen within 1 to 2 days. One of the more troublesome of these effects is called "genital numbing," which affects 9 out of 10  people talking SSRIs. This can result in difficulties with sexual arousal and greatly delayed orgasm, and apparently these effects can persist long after drug discontinuation. He said that these sensory effects can develop quickly, within a day or two of starting the medications. Even more chilling, he said that the problem can actually get worse when you discontinue the medication, and can sometimes persist for life. In addition, quite a few individuals have "bad trips" on SSRIs, although a minority clearly have "good trips." He said the best thing to do for a bad trip is to take the patient off of the medication immediately—and NOT increase the dose. He confirmed my impression that a common error with all antidepressants is to increase the dose—which simply increases the side effects. In addition to the genital numbing described above, he said the SSRIs cause "emotional numbing," which means a decreased capacity for joy as well as sorrow. One of the main activities in David Healy's life has been listening to patients, rather than discounting their complaints when they describe negative effects of medications. When asked about what alternatives to drugs he might recommend to someone struggling with depression, he said that sometimes, just doing nothing will be helpful, since most mood problems clear up spontaneously in 12 to 14 weeks. He said that most are simply human problems, not "mental disorders," but real-life problems, like relationship conflicts or social issues. Although we did not discuss it extensively on the show, I would point out that skillful, drug-free therapy with TEAM CBT can sometimes help as well, and that recent research has confirmed rapid often dramatic mood improvements with individuals using the Feeling Great app, which has been entirely free to anyone since the summer of 2025.  Finally, we do not advise anyone to discontinue or modify the dosages of any medications you have been prescribed without consultation with your doctor. The information in the Feeling Good podcast is of a strictly educational nature, and is not intended as treatment or medical advice. We thank you for listening to today's shocking but incredibly important dialogue with one of the pioneers and champions of greater ethical integrity and transparency in the psychiatric profession. It is sad, indeed, that we don't have more visionary critical thinkers like Dr. David Healy! David (H), Rhonda, and David (B)

In today's episode, Gina shares the last part of her interview with Dr. David Burns, a Stanford educated psychiatrist noted for his pioneering work in cognitive therapy and development of TEAM CBT, and evolution of cognitive therapy that can provide rapid recovery. Dr. Burns discusses a powerful therapeutic tool he uses known as the hidden emotion technique. Full of wisdom and experience, listen in to hear more insight from Dr. Burns today!Get Dr. Burns' Feeling Great app for free! Feeling Great Check out the many free anxiety resources at Feeling Good by David Burns, MDStillpoint Fridays is my once-a-week Friday note — a slower, more personal reflection that's different from what I share on the podcast.If you'd like a quiet place to land as the week winds down, you can join here: http://eepurl.com/bR2F9P or on our website anxietycoachespodcast.com and sign up for the newsletter.Please visit our Sponsor Page to find all the links and codes for our awesome sponsors! https://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.com/sponsors/Websitehttps://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.comJoin our community Group Coaching Join our Group Coaching Full or Mini Membership Program1:1 CoachingLearn more about our One-on-One CoachingIf you prefer to listen AD-FREE, try our Supercast premium access membership:Learn more about anxiety What is anxiety?Free Guided Meditation for Calming Your Anxious Mind 10-Minute Body-Scan Meditation for AnxietyChapters0:26 Welcome to the Podcast1:12 Understanding Anxiety's Hidden Emotions15:18 The Role of Shame in Anxiety21:49 Connecting Through Shared Humanity24:42 Future Topics and GoodbyeSummaryIn this episode, I continue my enlightening conversation with Dr. David Burns, renowned psychiatrist and author of pivotal works such as "Feeling Good" and "When Panic Attacks." Our dialogue delves into the intricacies of anxiety and the underlying emotions that often fuel it. I invite listeners to reflect on their relationship with anxiety and how to discern the subtle messages it communicates.A significant focus of our discussion is the Hidden Emotion Model—a technique I learned and refined during my training that unveils the repressed feelings driving anxiety. Dr. Burns eloquently explains how individuals, often conscientious and "nice," suppress emotions like fear, anger, and disappointment, which leads to heightened anxiety. By recognizing and articulating these hidden emotions, individuals can often alleviate their anxiety significantly. Dr. Burns shares a compelling vignette involving a man struggling with panic attacks after receiving unexpected news about parenthood. This example illustrates the necessity of acknowledging uncomfortable emotions to pave the way for healing.Our conversation also touches on the societal stigmas surrounding emotional expression, particularly for those who identify as "nice" people. Dr. Burns and I explore how mental health diagnostics can inadvertently contribute to feelings of shame and inadequacy among patients. It's a powerful reminder that many who battle anxiety face not only internal struggles but external societal pressures that may dictate how they should feel or behave.#Anxiety, #PanicAttacks, #MentalHealth, #CBT, #DrDavidBurns, #AnxietyCoachesPodcast, #FeelingGood, #FeelingGreat, #Psychology, #Mindfulness, #SelfHelp, #Recovery, #Wellness, #Healing, #StressRelief, #InnerPeace, #MentalWellness, #SelfCare, #Therapy, #Coaching, #EmotionalIntelligence, #NervousSystem, #OvercomingAnxiety, #PanicDisorder, #SocialAnxiety, #MentalHealthAwareness, #EndTheStigma, #GrowthMindset, #Authenticity, #Boundaries, #SelfLove, #IntrusiveThoughts, #OCD, #HealthAnxiety, #MindfulLiving, #Breathwork, #Meditation, #Zen, #Spirituality, #PersonalGrowth, #Resilience, #Empowerment, #HealthyMind, #AnxietyRelief, #StressManagement, #Psychotherapy, #Counseling, #WellnessJourney, #LifeCoaching, #MentalHealthMatters, #AnxietySupportSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In today's episode, Gina shares part two of her interview with Dr. David Burns, a Stanford educated psychiatrist noted for his pioneering work in cognitive therapy and development of TEAM CBT, and evolution of cognitive therapy that can provide rapid recovery. Dr. Burns discusses his app, which is free for users and can make substantial progress in healing users mental health concerns (such as anxiety and depression) with only a few hours of use!. Listen in to hear more wisdom, experience and insight from Dr. Burns today!Get Dr. Burns' Feeling Great app for free! Feeling Great Check out the many free anxiety resources at Feeling Good by David Burns, MDStillpoint Fridays is my once-a-week Friday note — a slower, more personal reflection that's different from what I share on the podcast.If you'd like a quiet place to land as the week winds down, you can join here: http://eepurl.com/bR2F9P or on our website anxietycoachespodcast.com and sign up for the newsletter.Please visit our Sponsor Page to find all the links and codes for our awesome sponsors! https://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.com/sponsors/Website https://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.comJoin our community Group Coaching Join our Group Coaching Full or Mini Membership Program1:1 Coaching Learn more about our One-on-One CoachingIf you prefer to listen AD-FREE, try our Supercast premium access membership:Learn more about anxiety What is anxiety?Free Guided Meditation for Calming Your Anxious Mind 10-Minute Body-Scan Meditation for AnxietyChapters0:26 Introduction to the Podcast2:46 The Feeling Great App5:31 Challenges with Mental Health Professionals7:17 Exploring Funding Options11:02 The Role of AI in Therapy15:14 The State of Psychiatry Today18:19 The Power of Thought Change20:16 Spiritual Enlightenment Through Recovery21:04 Conclusion and Next StepsSummaryIn this episode, I continue my engaging conversation with Dr. David Burns, a prominent figure in the fields of psychotherapy and cognitive behavioral therapy. As the author of bestselling books such as "Feeling Good" and "When Panic Attacks," Dr. Burns has dedicated decades to understanding and treating mental health challenges such as anxiety and depression. Together, we explore the evolution of therapeutic techniques and how measuring emotional outcomes has revolutionized the approach to treating patients.Dr. Burns shares fascinating insights from his 35 years of experience, emphasizing the value of quantifying patients' feelings before and after therapy sessions. By adopting a methodology akin to sports performance analysis, he explains how psychotherapists can evaluate effectiveness and refine their techniques, ultimately leading to more successful treatments. His innovative approach has resulted in models where many patients enjoy significant relief from anxiety in just one intensive session. The brilliance of Dr. Burns's work extends to his latest project, the Feeling Great app, which utilizes advanced AI to replicate his therapeutic techniques, offering users a groundbreaking and accessible tool for managing mental health.However, we delve into the challenges faced by creators of mental health resources amidst a complex landscape dominated by traditional practices. Dr. Burns articulates his frustration over the limited support for AI-driven mental health solutions, highlighting the hesitance of both the public and mental health professionals who fear the disruption these innovations may pose to traditional therapeutic models. He shares his concerns that despite the power of the Feeling Great app, the financial viability of sustaining such an effective tool remains tenuous.#AnxietyCoachesPodcast #DrDavidBurns #FeelingGreat #FeelingGood #TEAMCBT #CognitiveBehavioralTherapy #CBT #MentalHealthAI #AnxietyRelief #DepressionRecovery #PanicAttacks #DigitalTherapy #MentalHealthInnovation #StopTheStigma #MindsetShift #SelfHelpTools #MentalWellness #GinaRyan #PsychologyPodcast #SpiritualEnlightenment #TherapyWorks #ACPSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ask David, #491, featuring our beloved Dr. Matthew May. Can Introverts be helped? How can we enhance our happiness? What's the best movie to watch if your father rejected you? How can I identify my feelings? The answers to the first two questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today's Questions Anonymous asks: Can an introvert become more extroverted? Or are these personality traits "fixed" and unchanging? Seve asks: I know that TEAM can be super helpful for negative thoughts and feelings, but what are the best tools to enhance happiness and become the person we want to be? I have a patient whose father rejected her when she was young. What would be a good movie that I could recommend for her? Anonymous asks: I don't know how to identify my feelings. Can you help?   Today's Answers Question #1 Anonymous asks: Can an introvert become more extroverted? Or are these personality traits "fixed" and unchanging? Dear Dr. Burns, I hope this message finds you well. I would like to ask you a question regarding personality traits. Some articles suggest that introversion and extraversion are relatively stable characteristics—meaning that an introverted person cannot truly become more extroverted, and vice versa (or at least not to a great extent). They also propose that introverts tend to lose energy in social situations and recharge when alone, whereas extroverts gain energy from social interaction. I'm very curious to know your thoughts on this topic. Do you believe an introverted person can become more extroverted? And in your view, is an introvert's need for solitude more of a true "need" or a "want"? Thank you very much for your time and for the inspiration your work has provided to so many of us. Warm regards, Anonymous David's reply If you like, I can make this an Ask David question for an upcoming podcast! It's a cool question and raises many questions: Do "personalities" even "exist?" Is this like the question, "Do we have a self?" It also focuses on the issue of whether we can change and grow, or whether there is some invisible barrier beyond which we can grow any further, due to some inherent "limit" due to our "personality type." Best, david   Question #2 Dr. Dear David: I know first-hand how helpful TEAM CBT can be to address negative thoughts and emotions but our path to a happier life and to the person we want to be never really ends.  Are there any other tools that Dr. David may have come across and can suggest for someone's growth? Thank you, Steve David's Answer Great question, and I'll give you a (hopefully) great answer on the podcast! But here's the quickie answer. Focus on one specific moment when you'd like to be feeling happier, or when you need help on become the person you want to be, and then use a Daily Mood Log, Habit / Addiction Log (HAL), or Relationship Journal, depending on what's needed. This is the exact same fractal concept we use in all of TEAM CBT! Warmly, david   Question #3 Hi podcast crew: I have a patient whose father rejected her when she was young. What would be a really good movie to recommend do her? David's Answer Sadly, I lost my notes from this podcast, but in general David and Matt found this question somewhat offensive, as it suggests you can chase a problem (father rejected me) with a method, in this case recommending a good movie. We, instead, would recommend TEAM CBT, which is real therapy, and not gimmicks. Movies can be rewarding, but that's not the same as effective therapy! Rhonda asked David and Matt what was wrong with recommending a movie in the same way we recommend books for clients to read.   Have a listen to hear their response.   Question #4 Anonymous asks: I don't know how to identify my feelings. Can you help? David's Answer Rhonda said one of her clients could not identify their feelings, unless they have the Feelings Chart in front of them.   David thought that anyone could identify their feelings and explained. One simple way is to identify a specific moment when you were upset and wanting help. Think about what was going on, who wee you with, where were you, etc. Then review the Feeling Words charts, which I will link to, to see how many, and which ones, resonate with how you were feeling at that time, or how you may still be feeling. Feeling Words Chart with Five Secrets, v 2 Another way is to draw a Stick Figure of yourself, and put a bubble above its head. Then imagine the Stick Figure is upset and put the Stick Figure's negative thoughts and feelings in the bubble. They don't have to be your feelings and thoughts, just make some up. Do it now—on paper! DON'T just think about it. That never works! Have you done it yet? No? That's what I suspected. If you ever DO want the answer to your question, so the stick figure on paper and then write me back. Thanks! Finally, you can listen to the podcast on "I Feel" Statements, and spend one week telling five people a day how you feel, using words from the Feeling Words Chart. For example, when checking groceries you could tell the clerk, "I'm feeling happy because we have such beautiful weather today." Or, "I'm feeling really frustrated with politics this morning!" Or whatever.  Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

In today's episode, Gina shares part one of her interview with Dr. David Burns, a Stanford educated psychiatrist noted for his pioneering work in cognitive therapy and development of TEAM CBT, and evolution of cognitive therapy that can provide rapid recovery. Dr. Burns discusses his background and his personal story in this episode, as well as an interesting case history from a notable patient he saw early in his career. Listen in today!Stillpoint Fridays is my once-a-week Friday note — a slower, more personal reflection that's different from what I share on the podcast. If you'd like a quiet place to land as the week winds down, you can join here: http://eepurl.com/bR2F9P or on our website anxietycoachespodcast.com and sign up for the newsletter. Please visit our Sponsor Page to find all the links and codes for our awesome sponsors! https://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.com/sponsors/ Website https://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.comJoin our community Group Coaching Join our Group Coaching Full or Mini Membership Program1:1 Coaching Learn more about our One-on-One CoachingIf you prefer to listen AD-FREE, try our Supercast premium access membership: Learn more about anxiety What is anxiety? Free Guided Meditation for Calming Your Anxious Mind 10-Minute Body-Scan Meditation for AnxietyChapters 0:26 Introduction to Dr. David Burns2:33 Journey into Psychiatry8:32 The Shift to Cognitive Therapy10:18 A Lone Wolf in Psychiatry11:17 Insights from Epictetus14:36 Thoughts vs. Feelings16:17 The Power of Beliefs18:00 A Transformative Client Story24:46 Conclusion and Next StepsSummaryThe interview with Dr. David Burns on the Anxiety Coaches Podcast delves deep into his transformative approach to cognitive therapy, showcasing both his professional journey and the innovative principles underlying his methods. Host Gina Ryan introduces Dr. Burns, an esteemed figure in psychiatry who has made significant contributions to the field over several decades, particularly through his development of Team CBT. Dr. Burns is known for emphasizing the role of thoughts in emotional health, moving away from traditional beliefs centered on chemical imbalances.Dr. Burns recounts his journey into psychiatry, which began serendipitously rather than through a clear passion. He admits that his initial foray into medical school was filled with uncertainty and challenges, expressing doubts about the principles he encountered during his psychiatry residency. Specifically, he discusses his dissatisfaction with the prevailing chemical imbalance theory of depression and anxiety, which he argues failed to deliver the promised results in his patients. This lack of effective outcomes prompted him to pivot away from medication-heavy treatments and explore cognitive therapy, especially the pioneering work of Aaron Beck and Albert Ellis.The discussion then shifts towards his profound realization that emotions stem from our thoughts. Recounting personal experiences with social anxiety, Dr. Burns illustrates how understanding this connection transformed his clinical approach. He emphasizes that by changing negative thought patterns, patients can experience immediate shifts in their emotional states, a principle that would shape his writing and therapeutic practices. His seminal book, "Feeling Good," emerged during a period of professional exploration and is a reflection of his commitment to empowering individuals struggling with anxiety and depression.#AnxietyCoachesPodcast #DrDavidBurns #FeelingGood #CBT #MentalHealthMatters #AnxietyRelief #TEAMCBT #CognitiveBehavioralTherapy #Stoicism #EmotionalIntelligence #PsychologyToday #OvercomingAnxiety #SocialAnxiety #EndTheStigma #Mindfulness #SelfHealing #NoMorePills #MentalHealthAwareness #StanfordPsychiatry #GinaRyan #TherapyWorks #ACPSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sexting, Bullying, and Social Media-- A Compassionate, Practical Guide for Parents of Teens Today, we welcome back one of our favorite guests, Taylor Chesney, director of the Feeling Good Institute in New York City. Taylor specializes in TEAM-CBT with children and adolescents and brings a rare combination of clinical expertise and real-life wisdom as the mother of four. Parents everywhere are worried about social media, sexting, porn, bullying, and the fear that their kids are doing "who knows what" behind closed doors. In this episode, Taylor offers a refreshing and deeply practical message: the solution isn't better apps, stricter rules, or surveillance—it's connection. Why Blaming Technology Misses the Point Teen brains are still developing. They're impulsive, thrill-seeking, and wired for belonging and validation. Give teens instant access to peers and social media, and mistakes are inevitable. Taylor emphasizes that technology itself isn't good or bad—it amplifies what's already happening in a teen's emotional world. The real question isn't how to eliminate technology, but how parents can guide kids in using it safely and thoughtfully. The Real Protective Factor: Communication Parents often ask, "What app should I install?" or "How do I stop this?" Taylor suggests these questions lead to dead ends. What truly protects teens is a relationship where they feel: understood rather than judged supported rather than interrogated safe coming to parents after a mistake As Taylor explains, for most teens it's not if they'll face a difficult online situation—it's when. The goal is to make sure they come to you when it happens. How to Talk So Teens Will Open Up Using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, especially the Disarming Technique, parents can shift from policing to coaching. Instead of: "Why were you on your phone?" Try: "Help me understand what was going on for you." This approach reduces secrecy and increases trust. Porn, Sexting, and Shame Discovering porn or sexting can trigger panic and anger in parents—but shaming almost always backfires. Taylor suggests responding with curiosity and empathy: "What was that like for you?" "What do you understand about the difference between porn and real intimacy?" Sexting often begins innocently—seeking connection, validation, or closeness—but once an image is sent, control is lost. Open conversations help teens think ahead without feeling judged or controlled. Parents can also teach teens simple, self-respecting responses like: "I care about you, but I don't need to send that to prove it." Bullying and Online Drama Online bullying mirrors real-life dynamics—but faster, more public, and more permanent. Taylor shares concrete skills teens can use: Pause before responding Don't engage when emotions are high Exit or mute toxic chats Involve an adult early Helpful phrases teens can practice include: "This chat is getting mean—I'm stepping out." "I'm not comfortable with this." "Let's take a break." The Big Takeaway Mistakes—by teens and parents—are inevitable. The real danger isn't errors; it's secrecy. When kids know they can come to their parents without fear of shame or punishment, they make better decisions and recover more quickly when things go wrong. As Taylor puts it: "The kids with the best relationships with their parents make the best decisions." Thanks for listening, and heartfelt thanks to Taylor for this wise, compassionate, and deeply reassuring conversation. — David, Rhonda, and Taylor

Meet Richard Lam-- Master TEAM CBT Teacher and Therapist! Today we chat with Richard Lam. Richard is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in private practice in Mountain View, California. He is a graduate of Palo Alto University. He currently provides short-term therapy for anxiety, OCD, habits/addictions, depression, and relationship concerns using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Richard also trains other therapists in David Burn's model of CBT called TEAM-CBT Therapy. He is a certified Level 5 Master Therapist and Trainer in TEAM-CBT Therapy.  And today, Richard has gifts for you! They are fantastic! See below! I began by asking Richard how he got interested in teaching. When he was first learning, he was tutored by Dr. Angela Krumm, an advanced TEAM CBT practitioner and one of the three founders of the Feeling Good Institute. He was loving the training, but one day she said, "That's all I can teach you. Now you have to start teaching!"  And that started the wagon rolling down the hill. Richard is particularly interested in developing free self-help tools for patients, but also runs a special training class for TEAM CBT therapists who themselves want to become trainers. It meets in-person at the FGI office on Mondays from 12 to 2 PM. If interested, contact Richard (contact information is at bottom of show notes.) Richard is one of our most articulate TEAM CBT teachers, and is renown for some of his live demonstrations of specific techniques, like Forced Empathy. He has created a series of multi-page interactive teaching guides for a variety of techniques, so you can learn exactly how to do the Double Standard Technique, or the Externalization of Voices in a simple, clear, step-ty-step manner. Here are links to several examples. Check them out and feel free to share them with your patients if you are a TEAM therapist.  These links are all kick ass! Check them out and do the exercises. You'll be glad you did! Link to Double Standard Technique Link to Externalization of Voices  Link to Externalization of Resistance Link to I Feel Statements, Part 1 Link to I Feel Statements, Part 2 Link to Feared Fantasy Link to Forced Empathy Link to Forced Empathy Handout Link to Future Projection, for Habits Link to Paradoxical Ultimatum Richard tells us that mental health works a lot like physical health. When we don't regularly care for our bodies, things start to deteriorate and the same is true for our minds. These tools give you a way to keep nurturing your mental health so you can maintain a strong, healthy mind. Richard and I also discussed Acceptance--one of the most difficult concepts for patients and therapists alike to "get." I was delighted to learn he has a five-point plan to help people grasp this concept. Richard's Five Steps to Acceptance 1. The Win-Win Principle: How can I see this loss as a win? In high school, Richard had a patient whose heart was set on making the varsity basketball team, and was heartbroken when he only made the junior varsity team. But then he got to thinking that it would be fun to be the start on the JV team because his best friend is also going to be in JV. He relaxed and started to enjoy his practices with the team.  And He was promptly promoted to the varsity team!  2. Remember the butterfly effect!  Richard described getting angry and frustrated when he was late for an important appointment, and the car in front of him was moving slowly and caused a delay at a red light. His first impulse was to get angry and insist it SHOULDN'T have happened. But then, in reflection, he thought: "Wait a minute. This delay will change the entire trajectory of the rest of my life. And who knows, this could have save my life from some future tragedy if the trajectory of my life had been on time."  3, Growth mindset I have always thought of this important idea in simple terms. There is really no such "thing," from a Buddhist perspective, as "success" or "failure." These are just experiences. But often things do not turn out as one hoped. Instead of caving in, giving up, or feeling depressed or frustrated, although those are perfectly reasonable human experiences, you can accept your failure and view it as an opportunity for growth and learning. Our 9 month old grandson has reminded me that when we are learning to walk, we "fail" constantly, falling over, etc. But these are steps in learning that eventually culminates in the ability to walk--which is a miracle! 4. The spiritual view Acceptance can be thought of as letting go of judgement. Richard treated a woman who was angry at God because she could not have children, and she had always dreamed of having a big family. But from a medical perspective, her anger and constant agitation were actually the main reason she couldn't get pregnant. Shen she began working on reducing her anger using TEAM CBT, she was able to relax, and accept her fate with greater in peace. And then she suddenly got pregnant!  I, David, have seen this on many occasions. Check out Podcast #7f9, one of our most popular podcasts ever, with Daisy: "What is the Secret of a Meaningful Life?" Or Podcasts 268 - 269, featuring live work with our beloved Dr. Carly Zankman. Or #349: "What if my family rejects me?" All of these podcasts were amazing, and resulted in rapid pregnancies! 5. Empathy vs anger Richard described getting VERY angry when someone broke into his car and stole a bunch of stuff, but then asked himself why they did it. He realized that they were probably struggling and desperate for money--for drugs, for food, for family. Understanding someone's story can help lower the anger that you feel. Richard, Rhonda, and David

Let's face it. We ALL procrastinate. Attempts to "help" nearly always backfire. Dr. David Burns gets it. Procrastinators don't want help — they want something that actually works. In his upcoming free webinar on February 25, Dr. Burns introduces his paradoxical approach and ten powerful TEAM CBT tools that deliver results.  Sign up now at FeelingGoodWebinar.com. Everyone is welcome! Therapists can purchase two CE credits if they attend the live event. See you there!

Helping a Loved One with Schizophrenia Treating OCD! My Hands Might Be Contaminated! How To Mend an Angry, Broken Heart The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. Joel asks: How can we use TEAM CBT to help a patient or loved one struggling with schizophrenia? Jean asks: Since CBT won't work with OCD, should we use exposure or the Hidden Emotion Technique instead? Jim asks: When someone has objectively hurt you, like your partner has had an affair, how do you get over that pain?  And here are the answers. Question #1  Dear Dr Burns, I learned from you that the foundational principle of CBT is that our emotions, and ultimately our behaviors, are rooted in thoughts or beliefs. Are there emotional and/or behavioral disorders (perhaps like schizophrenia) that are rooted in abnormal neurobiological brain pathologies, rather than in distorted cognitions or self-defeating beliefs? And if so, is TEAM CBT relevant to helping those suffering from these "psychoses"?  With much gratitude, respect, and affection, Joel Question #2 Dear Dr. Burns: I'm curious if you have thoughts about the problem of talking back to the obsessive thoughts in OCD.  Thank you, Jean Question #3 Dear Dr. Burns: When someone has objectively hurt you, like your partner has had an affair, how do you get over that pain?  I am not having thoughts that I did anything wrong, or there is something the matter with me, I feel sad, hurt and confused and angry. Jim Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 3 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present the live and unedited follow-up session with Madeleine, a loving mother who became terrified when she realized that her oldest beloved daughter might be in mortal danger during her hear abroad while in college.  Part 3 of 3 We were a bit rushed near the end of M = Methods in Part 2 because of a mistake that I (David) made. I forgot that we had extended this webinar by 30 minutes, so we wouldn't be rushed at the end, so I wrongly concluded we were running out of time when we weren't! In order to complete our work, we scheduled Part 3 several weeks later to do the following critical pieces of the work with Madeleine. Additional work with the Externalization of Voices to make sure she could knock all of her self-critical thoughts out of the park. Cognitive Flooding, using the magazine article she was triggered by to prompt the anxiety. The idea is to make yourself as anxious as possible for as long as possible, until the anxiety and panic eventually loses its punch and becomes boring. This will be one of the first times we have illustrated this technique live in a video-recorded session. Any other loose ends that may have emerged since our first session with the wonderful Madeleine! We did some cognitive flooding, urging Madeleine to close her eyes and describe her most terrifying fantasy involving her daughter's abduction by a sociopathy. We encourage her to make herself as anxious as possible, and within minutes she was at 100% and sobbing. Then we did some "memory" rescripting as we had promised her at the start, and part way through there was an unexpected surge of anger, that seemed to come from out of the blue, although the circumstances of the fantasy were clearly more than enough to trigger rage.  Using the technique called "Affect Bridging," I asker her whether the anger she was now feeling might trace back to some earlier traumatic event in her life, perhaps when she was young, and this was confirmed. She described a profoundly troubling indecent involve her mother and dad shortly before they got divorced.  There was a tremendous amount of emotion packed into today's follow-up session, almost non-stop, in fact. We look forward to seeing Madeleine's end-of-session Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session. Jill and David assigned follow-up homework for her, including 15 minutes per day reading the terrifying article from People Magazine that had initially triggered her in the beauty salon.  We want to thank you, Madeleine for your courage in being so open and real, and for giving us all a unique opportunity for some incredible learning, and also the chance to get to know you at a deep a genuine level! Thanks for listening to these three podcasts. We hope you enjoyed them and learned something useful and helpful, especially if you've also been struggling with feelings of depression and anxiety, or if you're a mental health professional wanting to take a deeper dive in to how TEAM CBT can sometimes produce extremely rapid healing, even from severe feelings of depression, anxiety, and despair.  Madeleine, Jill, Rhonda, and David Following the session, Madeleine sent us the following feedback on the session via email: Hi Jill and David, Completed after session yesterday, but in my state of emotional fatigue, forgot to hit send! Brief Mood Survey after session: Depression: 3 / 20 (minimal) Suicidal urges: 0 / 12 (none) Anxiety: 8 / 20 (mildly elevated) Anger: 9 / 20 (mild/moderately elevated) Happiness: 12 / 20 (low) Relationship Satisfaction: 29 / 30 (nearly perfect) Evaluation of Therapy Session Empathy: 20 / 20 (perfect score) Helpfulness: 20 / 20 (perfect score) Satisfaction: 8 / 8 (perfect score)  Commitment: 8 /8 (perfect score) Neg feelings: 4 (high, range = 0- 4) Difficulties with Q: 2 (medium, range = 0- 4) What did you like the Least: exposure was pain. It feels very heavy and exhausting. And i understand, necessary to healing. What did you like the Most: David's "bridging" my affect states to discover my rage source. Jill's keeping us on track and making connection from my present worry about daughter's safety to past feelings of betrayal, losing trust, and resulting anger in my dad, a trusted figure. You both hit the nail on the head so many times in the session to uncover the deeper, ugly, messy, dark pools that lie within me i choose to keep safely sealed tight and out of the light. Postscript: I just completed day 1 of exposure in re reading the awful article. All the anxiety and fear resurfaced along with new feelings of revenge, determination, appreciation for the authors who are perhaps trying to help the family by publishing this. Ick. Best Regards, Madeleine  Again, a big thanks to you Madeleine, and we will watch closely as you continue your courageous daily exposure work, and look forward to the day when you have won this battle!  Warmly, david

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 2 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present the exciting conclusion of our work with Madeleine, a loving mother who fears that her eldest daughter might be in mortal danger during her year abroad. Last week, you heard about the T = Testing and E = Empathy phase of the live work with Madeleine, a mother feeling intense panic and helplessness and inadequacy because she fears that her daughter could be in grave danger of abduction and worse. This week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, using the Miracle Cure Question, Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and Magic Dial to see if we can melt away her resistance to change. You can see the Emotions table of the Daily Mood Log Madeleine during the Magic Dial portion of the session if you Click Here As you can see, she wanted to reduce her negative feelings somewhat, but thought she still wanted to keep them fairly elevated, since she still sensed that her daughter might be in real danger, and clearly did not want to abandon her. This is one of the significant refinements in TEAM CBT. First, we want to bring the patient's resistance to full conscious awareness. Second, we want patients to full grasp that their negative thoughts and feelings do NOT result from some "defect" or "mental disorder," but rather from what is most beautiful and awesome about them as human beings. After the Magic Button, David and Jill went on to the final, M = Methods portion of the TEAM session, using tools such as Identify and Explain the Distortions, the Double Standard Technique, and the Externalization of Voices, with the Acceptance Paradox, the Self-Defense Paradigm, and the CAT (Counter-Attack Technique). We will, of course, do numerous role reversals to see if we can get Madeleine to a "huge" victory over her many distorted thoughts. You can see the Daily Mood Log Madeleine prepared at the end of the session if you Click Here As you can see, the reductions in negative feelings were dramatic, but in several areas (anxiety, inadequacy, frustration and anger), Madeleine's negative feelings were still minimally elevated. That is one of the reasons we decided to schedule an additional session together several weeks later to see if we could intensify Madeleine's responses to her negative thoughts, and hopefully due some Cognitive Flooding to complete her "treatment." At the end of these show notes, you will find an email from Madeleine after the session that includes her end-of-session scores on the BMS and EOTS. You will also see comments submitted by many participants who attended the webinar live. This email below from Madeleine following the session shows her end of session scores on the Brief Mood Survey as well as the Evaluation of Therapy Session at the end of her session with Jill and David. Hi David, Yes, here are my BMS & ETS score totals after the extended session. Please let me know if you have any questions. A relapse prevention session would be nice; however, I hesitate to accept your offer as you all are so busy. Please know that I am practicing the PTs and keeping the NTs in check for now. Thank you again a million times over

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 1 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present one of our favorite podcast topics—live work with a real human being who is suffering. We will be working with Madeleine, a woman who read a disturbing article while at the hairdresser and freaked out, sensing that one of her daughters might be in mortal danger. This live and unedited session was first presented as part of a free webinar on September 11, 2025. There was no preparation or role-playing—everything was absolutely real and spontaneous, exactly as it evolved in real time. We present Part 1 as our final Feeling Good Podcast for our 2025 season. This is our most powerful and popular type of podcast, and we hope you enjoy it. We also give a big thanks to our courageous "patient," Madeleine. My co-therapist will be Dr. Jill Levitt, a clinical psychologist and Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California. Jill and I greatly enjoy working together as co-therapists when we teach and we typically see our "patient" for an extended, two-hour session. We find that this is the most effective format for teaching, and that way, we can frequently complete a course of therapy in a single session. However, you do not need more than one therapist to do effective TEAM CBT, and you can do it in conventional 50 minute sessions as well. But often, you can do vastly more in a double session. We will not be engaged in an ongoing therapeutic relationship with Madeleine. When we work with therapists, they are doing personal work as a part of their training. We feel that this experience is vital for every therapist who hopes to do world-class TEAM CBT with their own patients / clients. More than 2,000 individuals registered for this workshop. Although the workshop was open to everyone, only 13% of the participants identified as general public, while 87% identified as mental health professionals.  In Part 1, which we present today, we focused on T = Testing and E = Empathy phases of the TEAM session. In Part 2, which you will hear next week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting and M = Methods. We will also show you the changes in her scores on the Daily Mood Log (DML) and Brief Mood Survey (BMS) from the start to the end of the session, as well as Madeleine's scores on the Evaluation of Therapy Session (EOTS) at the end, including what she liked the most and least about the session. That way, we can see clearly how much improvement there was (or wasn't) during the session, and how Jill and I did in terms of empathy, helpfulness, and other scales that evaluate the patient's view of the session. In Part 3, which you will hear in two weeks, we did more Externalization of Voices along with Cognitive Exposure, since we had some loose ends we wanted to tie up before completing our work with Madeleine. This follow-up session occurred many weeks after the initial session at the workshop, and will also serve as a follow-up to see how Madeleine did in the days following the live work. Part 1 of 3 Our "patient," Madeleine, is a courageous woman who experienced sheer panic after being triggered at the hair salon while reading an article about a young woman who was abducted. Since Madeleine's oldest daughter's is away at college, taking a year abroad, Madeleine realized she could not protect her from predators and freaked out, thinking about all the horrible things that could happen to her. In addition, Madeleine had many self-critical thoughts about ways she thought she had failed her daughter when her daughter was growing up, and worried about her daughter's judgement: She hasn't always made the best decisions about guys she's gone out with, and she's shared everything with me. She says, 'Don't worry mom. I've learned from this.'" At the start of the session, we reviewed Madeleine's scores on the Brief Mood Survey (BMS). This indicated only minimal depression (5/20), with no suicidal urges or anger, but her anxiety was still extremely elevated (18/20). In addition, her Positive Feelings score was only 20 out of 40, with 0 meaning no positive feelings at all, and 40 being the highest possible feelings. However, her Relationship Satisfaction score with her husband was 25 out of 30, which indicates strong satisfaction, with just a little room for improvement. We will ask Madeleine to complete the BMS again, along with the EOTS, so we can see precisely what changed, and by how much, during the session. Our goal, of course, with TEAM CBT, is nearly always to cause a near-complete, or complete, elimination of symptoms during a single, extended therapy session. In addition, we want every patient to have a crystal clear understanding of how and why they got upset, along with how to use the tools that were the most helpful to them in the session. That way, they'll be armed to deal with future relapses, which are inevitable for all human beings. And here's the big point. Our goal in sharing this session with you is so you can feel inspired, and see that rapid recovery really IS possible. And if you're a therapist, we hope that you will feel motivated to learn TEAM CBT so you can significantly improve your outcomes with your own patients. You can see the Daily Mood Log Madeleine prepared just prior to the session if you Click Here The upsetting situation was reading the article about the young abducted woman in the hair salon. On the Emotions table  she indicated that she was feeling sad, down, and unhappy (85%), anxious, frightened and panicky (100%), inadequate (100%), frustrated (90%), and angry and upset (100%). These extremely high ratings tells us that Madeleine's negative feelings were about as intense as a human being can experience. Although your life is undoubtedly very different from Madeleine's, perhaps you, too, have felt panic and helplessness when you thought the life of a loved one might be in danger. Madeleine generated several additional negative Thoughts during the empathy phase of the session, including, I'm totally responsible for how she's turned out. 95% I was not present enough for her. 95% She may not trust that I'm there for her. 60% She's anxious and insecure and a people-pleasure, and she's also perfectionistic, and it's all my fault. 75% I should have been more sensitive when she was growing up. I expected too much. 100% Again, if you're a parent, you may have had similar negative thoughts about your own parenting. I know that I have! During the Empathy phase, Madeleine described her horrors when reading the article at the hairdresser's, with thoughts of Natalie Hollaway's brutal murder as well as other women who were abducted and murdered. Madeleine explained that she and her husband both married late, and felt somewhat insecure as parents: "It wasn't easy having children late in life. . . .  When our first baby was born, the milk was not coming down. My daughter would look deep into my eyes, and I had the thought, 'I'm letting my daughter down.'" She said she had a rough time when she was growing up and her parents got divorced: "My heart was broken, and I had to learn to be strong. I had to learn not to let so much emotion through. I had to learn how to keep guys at arm's length. I had to protect myself from getting hurt." She said that wanted her daughters to grow up being strong and independent, but as she reflects back, she thinks she may have failed them and not provided enough warmth and support. Our goal during E = Empathy is not to help or even try change anything, but simply to go with our patients to the gates of hell, so they can vent, cry, and express their deepest and most private feelings. At the end of the Empathy portion of the session, we asked Madeleine to grade us on the three key elements of empathy, using letter grades: How accurately did we understand how you were thinking? How accurately did we understand how you were feeling inside? To what extent did we convey the spirit of trust, warmth, and acceptance? She gave us 3 A's, indicating it was time to move on to A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, which you will hear next week. We will want to find out what Madeleine might want help with. We will also try to melt away her resistance to change using the Miracle Cure Question, the Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and the Magic Dial.    Why would we anticipate resistance? After all, Madeleine is asking for help. But remember, the desire for change cannot always be take for granted in anyone. Nearly all of us have mixed feelings about change. After all, a loving and concerned mother might NOT want to stop worrying about a beloved daughter who seems to be in grave danger! But if you deal with this resistance in a compassionate way, you may open the door to the possibility of rapid healing when you come to the M = Methods portion of the session. We can check it out at the exciting conclusion of the work with Madeleine next week!

Am I Helping People Who Are Suicidal? Should I Worry about My Daughter's Anxiety? Disarming Yourself The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter's anxiety? Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself?   George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? Dear David, Please tell me if this is too close to medical or other protected advice, but I had a question about something I tell people who are sometimes struggling with suicidal ideation. Throughout my life, I have had the thought "I don't want to be alive anymore" more times than I can count. But what I have come to realize over time is that this is just something my brain says when I'm upset; it doesn't really mean anything other than that. It's just a reaction to being very upset and that reframing helps me feel better about it, knowing that it's not a conviction but rather just how my brain expresses negative distress. Multiple people have found this helpful, but I wonder if telling certain people this would be dismissive/triggering/etc. In a dangerous way? Do you think I should stop sharing this experience? George David's reply: Hi George, Thanks for asking. I will make this an Ask David question, if okay with you, using your first name or some other name if you prefer. Short answer: to me, this is like giving advice, to my way of thinking, and I have spent the last 40 – 50 years indicating that this is NOT an approach that's ever worked for me. Can say more on the podcast. Thanks! Warmly, david   No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter's anxiety? Dear Dr. Burns, I am not very skilled at expressing how much you, Rhonda, the others and your work mean to me. So, I will just ask a question. My daughter, who has a lot of anxiety issues told me that when she has a problem, she will purposely stew over it when trying to fall asleep so that she will wake up with an answer to the problem the next morning. I cringed. Is there any way that this is a safe or helpful paradoxical technique? No name David's reply Thanks, I'll copy Rhonda. We are both grateful for your loving comments! Rhonda, we can make this an ask David if you like for a podcast. But short answer, at least, in my opinion, is that this is a cool way to use your brain. It is a skill. For example, I often get confused by a difficult statistics problem when analyzing data, and go to sleep confused. Nearly all the time, my brain wakes me up in the middle of the night with a brilliant answer. So, if she perceived is in a positive way, and isn't disturbed, you could try nourishing it, as opposed to worrying about it! We'll see what Rhonda thinks. Rhonda, I'll add this great brief question to our list for Tuesday. I am reluctant to postpone the Ask David as when we've done this in the past, we've ended up never answer at least 20 to 30 questions which are now too old to put on a podcast. Those who asked may no longer even be alive it's been so long! Warmly, david Rhonda's reply Thank you for this lovely feedback. It really means a lot to us. Your daughter is going through something so many of us experience. I am excited we can respond to your question on an Ask David podcast. Warmly, Rhonda Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? Subject: Question about using disarming technique on oneself, and also it being used against you. Endless gratitude to all of you for the pipeline of clarity and hope. I was wondering if one can use disarming on oneself. Much of the focus in feeling good seems focused on looking for and challenging our distortions, which seems the opposite of disarming. Maybe the reversal of agendas emphasized in feeling great is essentially putting the disarming back into the process in regards to ourselves. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. On a side note, if one is in a legal contention or divorce, I could see how disarming could be effective and pacifying, yet what if those admissions could be used against you. David's reply I would like to include this in an Ask David podcast, with our first name or a fake name. Please advise if okay. Short answer: the ideas and tools to treat individual mood problems, like depression, are the complete opposite of the ideas and tools to treat relationship problems. This is like matter and anti-matter. However, the Disarming Technique and the Acceptance Paradox connect these two opposed and radically different worlds. So, in a sense, you are right. The Acceptance Paradox is a lot like disarming yourself! Best, david Jeffry's reply to david Thank you for the succinct response, and I look forward to hearing it fleshed out in the podcast. I would be honored for you to mention my name: Jeffrey - from the outskirts of Jerusalem in Israel And thank you to the whole team for keeping the best things in life for free (although I do hope everyone receives the funds they need). Yet I feel converse maxim - "there's no free lunch" remains standing, app://resources/notifications.html And that is, because, as you state over and over - anybody serious in improvement must pay the price; whether in completing the daily logs, or Burns assessment quizzes, or facing your fears, challenging your assumptions or fine-tuning one's communication skills, one interaction at a time. The danger of apps, and screens in general, are the inherent passivity and superficiality they engender, so I am looking forward to seeing how this app overcomes that. Lastly, you had sought feedback as to audience preferences for podcasts: I think by now I and most regular listeners are clear in the general approaches of Team CBT, and how it differs from other schools and their adherents, so now I benefit most from the role playing to crystallize and internalize its application. I would also be willing to forego multiple scenarios in each session in order to spend more time reiterating and clarifying individual scenarios - assuming that David, Rhonda, Matt, etc, have the willingness to keep going. Keep on keeping us learning and laughing. Jeffrey David's reply Thanks for the kindly and thoughtful note. We'll certainly try, but as you say, there's no free lunch and no guarantees! We are sometimes just hanging on! I like your recommendation for podcasts: more role playing I think to bring techniques and ideas to life. Warmly, david Thanks, for listening! David and Rhonda

Ask David Why do I obsess? Why do I have to be perfect? How can I share my feelings without oversharing? The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What's causing this? And what can I do? Yevhen asks: How can I use "I Feel" Statements without oversharing? But first, we start today's podcast with a comment from Susan, one of our podcast fans. She extends our discussion of whether friendship is more of a human "need" or a human "want." She describes her work with Dr. Daniel Herman, a Level 4 certified TEAM CBT therapist. Hi Rhonda, Matt, and David, First, I wanted to say I am so glad sweet Rhonda is feeling better. This is wonderful news! I have been a fan of Dr. Burns books for 10+ years and of the podcast for 3 years. I just finished listening to podcast #469 on friendship and felt compelled to share my story as it relates to Team CBT. Three years ago, my 23 year-old son entered a 90 day inpatient rehabilitation center for a marijuana addiction followed by 1 1/2 years in a sober living facility. Six months into his recovery, I reached out to Dr. Daniel Hermann, a Team CBT level 4 therapist. At that time, my son's progress had been steady yet I was still suffering greatly. One of many thoughts that contributed to my suffering was that my friends couldn't understand what I was going through. Although I have been fortunate to have had many wonderful friendships for 30+ years, Although I was open with my friends about my struggles, I generally didn't feel they understood what I was going through and I felt isolated. Fortunately, Dr. Herman did not try to convince me that I "needed" these friendships or to be understood to "get through" this difficult time. Instead, he helped me to look at the situation realistically, without distortions. My positive reframe regarding my friends was "I wish I could have felt closer to my friends during this difficult time. However, there are many ways in which I have supported myself and I have found other outside sources of comfort also." I made a very detailed list of the myriad of ways I had supported myself which brought me great comfort and empowerment. I was able to accept that I wasn't feeling as close to my friends as I would have liked, without blaming them or myself. I also let go of my belief that my friends "should" have been able to empathize better with what I was going through. I learned that although I truly value these friendships, if I expect them to mean everything to me in every situation, I will be setting myself up for a lot of suffering. I am so happy that sweet Rhonda had those strong friendships to help her during such a dark time. She is very fortunate! Since Rhonda had a change of heart during the podcast, the following comments are based on her beliefs at the beginning of the podcast: that the support of her friends is a need and that she could not have "gotten through" her treatments without it. Did Rhonda mean that she would have not sought cancer treatment, the treatments would have been ineffective, or that she would have ended her life without the support of her friends? Would she have told a client of hers in a similar situation that she needed to focus all her time and effort on developing meaningful friendships rather than treating her cancer because friendship was the true need? Obviously, I don't believe she would have and am glad that she had a change of heart regarding this belief. Thank you all for your wonderful podcasts! Susan The point I was trying to make is that Dr. Hermann himself did not appear to believe in these self-defeating beliefs, contrary to public opinion. This was essential to me coming to the same conclusions. (To be clear, he NEVER told me what to believe lol. I was paying him but I did all the work! Frustrating at times but coming to my own conclusions was the only way to internalize these messages.) Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What's causing this? And what can I do? Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind and prompt reply. I truly appreciate you taking the time to direct me to the additional resources on your website—I have found them and am already finding them very helpful. Please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in responding. The beginning of the new semester has kept me quite occupied, and I have only now found a moment to write to you properly. I am writing to you again because I have been struggling with some persistent challenges and was hoping I might ask for your guidance. Lately, I often find myself distracted by vivid, intrusive daydreams—I create elaborate imaginary stories or visualize worst-case scenarios, such as natural disasters. In addition, I have developed what feels like an obsessive need to keep my books in perfect condition. Even minor wear causes me significant anxiety, and I find it difficult to stop thinking about it if I cannot repair the damage. These thoughts and behaviors are beginning to affect my daily life, and I was wondering if you might have any advice or suggested resources that could help me better understand and manage them. Thank you once again for your generosity and support. Your work has already made a profound difference in my life. Warm regards, Zhang  David's response Thanks, Zhang. There are many methods and ideas in When Panic Attacks, my book on anxiety. In particular, the Hidden Emotion Technique might interest you. If you are in the US, there is a class on it in the Feeling Great app, which is free until the end of September, so move fast. Also, I would like to include this as an Ask David, if that's okay. Can use your first name, or a fake name. Best, david   Yevhen asks: How can I use "I Feel" Statements without oversharing? Hello Dr. Burns, Rhonda, and Matt, I would like to express my heartfelt gratitude for the remarkable work you're doing in the field of TEAM-CBT. Your books and your voice of reason have been an immense help to me in some of the most difficult times. Dr Burns, I always feel amazed hearing your wisdom and patience each time you explain the concepts. Even those concepts that were explained before. Additionally, thank you Dr Burns, Rhonda and Matt, for the exceptional Feeling Good podcast you host. Each new episode is a highlight of my week and nearly always offers profound insight and encouragement. On a lighter note, I sometimes play your podcast at night when I have trouble sleeping. It really helps me drift off within 20-30 minutes

Relapse and Relapse Prevention for Overeating Featuring Dr. Angela Krumm On today's podcast, we proudly feature an old friend, Dr. Angela Krumm, on the topic of relapse prevention for habits and addictions. This is certainly a top of incredible importance, since all treatments for all habits and addictions seem to have extremely high relapse rates. Anything we could do to reduce that would be a major contribution. Angela was on our Feeling Good Podcast #270 on Nov 29, 2021 describing some TEAM CBT methods she'd developed to deal with her own weight gain. In podcast #270 she taught listeners how to set process goals, instead of outcome focused goals. She then taught about the Triple Paradox, Habit Addiction Log, Devil's Advocate technique, and the Problem-Solution log. In that first episode she explained that this was a difficult time in her life: her father had died, and she'd also experienced a traumatic fall which caused a concussion. So she fell off being careful about her diet, and one day was shocked that she could not recognize herself—due to weight gain--in a photo, and was on the fast track to Type II Diabetes. As a result, she utilized many of the TEAM CBT techniques and slowly, but surely, lost weight and kept it off for multiple years. She explains that she was "solid for a long time, but have to confess, with shame, that I eventually relapsed because I got over-confident. I'd been tracking what I ate, which was an important key for me, and stopped keeping up with it consistently, thinking I didn't really need to anymore." We reviewed the kinds of tempting thoughts she'd had (and still has, of course, at times), when she feels tempted by her favorites: things like delicious brownies, red wine, and other sweet treats.  She has tempting thoughts such as: I deserve to take a break from tracking what I eat. I deserve a treat—I've had a hard day. It's silly to be so rigid. I deserve to eat whatever I want. Spontaneity is one of my core values! During the podcast, we illustrated the Devil's Advocate Technique (DAT), which is powerful and a lot of fun, but sometimes trickier than it looks. When Angela gave a "good" but not "huge" response to one of these tempting thoughts, I automatically suggested a role-reversal. Rhonda immediately and rightly reminded us that we never do role-reversals when people are stuck during the Devil's Advocate. Instead, we paradox the person and sit with open hands. Rhonda modeled this beautifully and it worked like a charm. Angela had a sudden about face and blew the tempting thought out of the water immediately. We made three teaching points on DAT. Don't give in to the urge to "help." This will have the opposite effect of keeping the patient stuck. Realize that if you're a therapist, and your patient cannot convincingly defeat all the temping thoughts in the office, the likelihood that they can defeat them when they're at home is 0%. So, the DAT is both a powerful technique to boost motivation with tools you can use when tempted, but it is also a powerful test of motivation. Remember to Sit with Open Hands if your patients cannot convincingly defeat their tempting thoughts. Angela shared that she now realizes that the main reason for her relapse was that she had skipped relapse prevention. This is the danger of being your own therapist, sometimes you make the mistake of cutting corners or getting overly confident. She asked to return to the podcast today to talk about that important mistake and help others prevent that mistake in the future. She wants us to emphasize the important of Relapse Prevention for all habits and addictions. When Angela mentioned that she'd relapsed in her eating to a therapist who was just learning TEAM-CBT, the therapist seemed shocked and asked, "Oh, does this mean that the techniques we're learning don't actually work?" This is such a great (but naïve and common) question, because we always emphasize that all patients—in fact all human beings—will relapse after recovery from depression, anxiety, a relationship conflict, or a habit / addiction. That's why it's so important to tell patients about relapse before discharge from therapy, and do a brief but intensive relapse prevention intervention. We reviewed several of the Relapse Prevention techniques, including the Problem Solution List and the Relapse Prevention Daily Mood Log, using and recording the Externalization of Voices. When you do this step with a patient, ask them to imagine the future moment in time when they have relapsed. It's important to capture the thoughts that will lead them to give up and quit using the techniques. Often, these are hopeless thoughts about the usefulness of the techniques or their ability to remain in recovery. If these thoughts are left unchecked, they will spiral the person into a deeper and more lengthy relapse. If they can predict the thoughts ahead of time and generate powerful rebuttals to use in that moment, then their first moment of relapse can be turned around quickly! We listed several of Angela's predicted negative thoughts during her relapse: I should not have let this happen. 100% I'm not strong enough. 60% It's just too hard to start tracking and logging what I eat again. 65% It will be too painful to have to track and see what I've eaten. 60% This isn't fair. It should be so hard to be healthy! 70% Screw it. I should just accept this and give up! 40% Podcast listeners will judge me because I have gained weight again. 10% We practiced challenging those thoughts with the Externalization of Voices, and Rhonda summarize several of the strategies that can be the most helpful: Self-Defense The Acceptance Paradox. The Counter-Attack Technique A combination of two or three Angela summarized three important take home messages from today's podcast. Always prepare a Relapse Daily Mood Log ahead of time, anticipating what you will be telling yourself when you relapse Challenge those thoughts with EOV and record that role-play so you can listen to it in the future when tempted. After you have lost sufficient weight, make a plan to continue your healthier eating after the acute phase. Do NOT make the common mistake of thinking, "Oh, I've achieved my goal of losing 30 pounds (or whatever), so now I'm done, and can go back to my normal eating habits and patterns again." Thank you for listening today! Angela, Rhonda, and David

COMING UP IN JANUARY: Fast Track to LEVEL 3 TEAM CBT Certification Howdy! If you're a therapist looking to strengthen your TEAM CBT skills and earn continuing education credit, here's an exceptional opportunity coming up in January 2026. Feeling Good Institute's Fast Track to Level 3 TEAM CBT Certification Starts January 16, 2026 • 25 weeks • 46 CEs Special Offer for Podcast Listeners: Use discount code FRIEND50 for a course price of $595.* Enroll Now at FastTrackCBT.com. This hybrid course combines: • Live weekly practice groups • Self-paced video training featuring Dr. David Burns & Dr. Jill Levitt • Deliberate Practice exercises such as Externalization of Voices and the Double Standard Technique • FREE Therapist Toolkit ($199 value) • Certification exam fees included *Early-Career Clinicians: If you're an Associate or Postdoc in the USA or Canada, use code EarlyCareer2026 and get the course for just $195 plus exam fee. Enroll Now at FastTrackCBT.com. If you want to level up your therapy skills for the rest of your career, this may be the ideal time.

David and Jill's Amazing Exposure Webinar Part 2 of 2 Today, you will hear part 2 of the Webinar that Dr. Jill Levitt and I did on September 11th on TEAM CBT and powerful exposure techniques for anxiety disorders. Jill's fantastic teaching includes the importance of recognizing the "Safety Behaviors" that sabotage effective exposure therapy. You will hear the dramatic story of a woman who recovered from more than 20 years of OCD / germ phobia in less than one minute while attending David's free weekly psychotherapy seminar at Stanford. You will also learn about "Memory Rescripting," and how it suddenly changed the life of a veteran who'd lost the capacity to feel human feelings following a traumatic experience in Vietnam 25 years earlier.  Thanks for listening. Please let us know if you want future webinars presenting as podcasts. We will also publish them in their entirety on our YouTube Feeling Great channel, so the additional publication on a podcast may be overkill. Let us know! Warmly, Rhonda, Jill, and David

David and Jill's Amazing Exposure Webinar Part 1 of 2 Today, you will hear part 1 of the Webinar that Dr. Jill Levitt and I did on September 11th of the fine points of exposure techniques for anxiety disorders. More than 2,000 individuals (mainly therapists, but many general public as well) registered for this event. It was super well received, thanks in large part to Jill's super awesome teaching skills! I feel so lucky every time we teach together. In part 1 today, you will hear about an overview of TEAM CBT, as well as the four treatment models we use with every person who is struggling with anxiety: The Motivational Model The Cognitive Model The Exposure Model The Hidden Emotion Model You will also see a dramatic example of the use of a powerful cognitive technique (the Experimental Technique) with Terri, a woman who'd struggled for ten years with extreme panic attacks and depression. You will see the exact moment of recovery, when her uncontrollable sobbing suddenly turned into uncontrollable laughter, joy, and relief. This may be the most dramatic psychotherapy example ever recorded. Although this podcast of the webinar is in audio only, you can also SEE this dramatic segment on YouTube at LINK to TERRI VIDEO Next week you will hear part 2 of that webinar, with Jill's fantastic teaching on the fine points of exposure, including the importance of recognizing the "Safety Behaviors" that sabotage effective treatment. You will hear the dramatic story of a woman who recovered from more than 20 years of OCD / germ phobia in less than one minute while attending David's free weekly psychotherapy seminar at Stanford. You will also learn about "Memory Rescripting," and how it suddenly changed the life of a veteran who'd lost the capacity to feel human feelings following a traumatic experience in Vietnam 25 years earlier.  Thanks for listening. Please let us know if you want future webinars presenting as podcasts. We will also publish them in their entirety on our YouTube Feeling Great channel, so the additional publication on a podcast may be overkill. Let us know! Warmly, Rhonda, Jill, and David

Ask David Are You Getting Old and Cranky Now? TEAM CBT and Spirituality The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Jenn asks: Are you getting old and cranky now? Jenn also asks: How did you get involved with / develop the spiritual and enlightenment aspect of TEAM? Dear Dr. Burns, Let me start by saying thank you for all of your hard work and diligence in creating a method which is so user friendly. Completing the book, When Panic Attacks, changed my life and helped me reach enlightenment. My Ask David question is inspired by the last few podcasts, the live session with Rhonda and the live session with Madelaine which David just did with Jill. David has clearly worked so hard to create TEAM and has dedicated so much time to perfect it. I was lucky enough to have been introduced to the podcast when it first started. Some of my favorite episodes to listen to are the live therapy sessions. I've gained insight and felt heard through many of these such as when David told Lee how lonely enlightenment can be because I agree with that! Recently I have noticed that David's demeanor has changed and was hoping to ask about it. I can imagine David might feel lonely in his expertise sometimes. I might be on the wrong track here too but I wonder if David might be feeling frustrated with the lack of understanding from people around him. He has been dedicating his life to this and still people do not understand certain aspects of his research and teaching. On recent podcasts, David had mentioned that he gets more irritated with teaching now too and it has seemed like he is irritated with Rhonda at points. He has mentioned that he feels disappointed if he doesn't see change in 2 hour sessions. Recently I watched a live session with Madelaine and some of the techniques (for example, calling her negative self sociopath during counter attack) did not seem to land or resonate with her and that wasn't addressed with David's usual love and tenderness and warmth with empathy. It seemed rushed and not necessarily focused on the patient outcome but the timeline. I did not find it to be David's usual work of patience and warmth. I could be completely off the rails but I am wondering if this is resonating with David and if he could share more about what it's been like for him recently. I also am wondering if it is difficult to navigate being seen as "a great leader" in a field. Do people see you as "David" simply a dedicated expert in your field or do people treat you like a "God" that has all the answers? I can imagine people would want help from you 24/7 and if you could speak to that. I am hoping David can look at some of those thoughts and comments he's made on the podcasts and become the client for us listeners! I would love for David to show us how to experience TEAM from the client's perspective for all to hear. I have used TEAM-CBT for 10 years and recently started the Fast Track Program which I am very excited for! Thank you again for this truly amazing process! Jenn David's reply Thanks, Jenn, You are right, I DO feel quite a bit of irritation with our field and can identify a bit with Martin Luther, who nailed his treatise / ideas on someone's door hundreds of years ago, and also Jesus who angrily threw the money changers out of the temple a couple thousand years ago. I know that sounds narcissistic, but that's how I feel sometimes. My frustration has several dimensions: The field, to my way of thinking, is incredibly screwed up and anti-scientific, divided into irrational cults called "schools" of therapy. Nobody seems to notice this "elephant" in our room! Hey, are you all sleeping? Did you learn critical thinking in college? When challenged by research that seriously questions the validity and effectiveness of current psychotherapies for depression and anxiety, for example, no one seems to care or notice. It seems like wrong theories die hard. People do not like being criticized and got angry when I criticize the field of psychotherapy. So, there is a kind of a "let's be politically correct" and be super "nice" to everyone, so as not to stir them up or hurt their feelings. There is a potential for massive change and improvements in psychotherapy and psychiatric treatment, but it would require a revolution and the acceptance of totally new approaches which would threaten many therapists' thinking and survival at a very basic level. Are you or others interested in my thinking? Let me know. If so, more later, maybe on a podcast or two with Jill and Matt, and of course, Rhonda. And here are the answers to some of your other questions. You say, "He has mentioned that he feels disappointed if he doesn't see change in 2 hour sessions." We're not on the same page here. I nearly always see dramatic change in 2 hour sessions, and I'm dramatic that I have created a therapeutic approach that makes this possible. When I was a young man, a psychiatric resident, I use to dream about that, and wondered if it was even possible, since I almost never saw meaningful change, much less recovery and joy, in any of my patients using the methods I was talk (supportive listening and antidepressants.) You also wrote: I also am wondering if it is difficult to navigate being seen as "a great leader" in a field. Do people see you as "David" simply a dedicated expert in your field or do people treat you like a "God" that has all the answers? Cool question. I think many people see me as a dedicated expert, but I think a few, particular from some of the Asian countries, to like to see people as "gurus" or something on that level. Sometimes I may even encourage that, as I am a strong believer that therapy, at its deepest level, does become spiritual. So, questions about spirituality and enlightenment do interest me greatly, and many of the techniques I've created are designed to facilitate rapid improvement, in minutes, vs. years of meditation. The Externalization of Voices would be an example, and it was actually the first CBT technique I created, around or even prior to 1975. You say, Recently I watched a live session with Madelaine and some of the techniques (for example, calling her negative self sociopath during counter attack) did not seem to land or resonate with her and that wasn't addressed with David's usual love and tenderness and warmth with empathy. It seemed rushed and not necessarily focused on the patient outcome but the timeline. You are partially correct and perhaps somewhat "off." Where you are right is that I miscalculated the time for the webinar, and thought we had to stop at 12:30. I later figured out we had until 1 PM, and we could have spent more time on EOV. Where you're perhaps wrong is that sometimes a confrontation can "jar" a patient into enlightenment. Few therapists use confrontation, but I have always used it, ever since my days in psychodrama as a medical student. Madeleine commented in her follow up evaluation on the things most helpful to her during the session, and that was one of them. Research has consistently proven that the observers of therapy cannot accurately assess the quality of the therapeutic alliance, as reported by the patient, or the effectiveness of what's happening during a session. I sometimes wish therapist observers had a bit more humility about the accuracy of their observations, based on research that's been replicated over and over! But there I am, whining again so I will stop! At any rate, Jenn, thanks for the wonderfully informative critical thinking, and great questions! Warmly, david Jenn's response to David Hi Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your fast response. I am really honored that you took the time to reply to me! Thank you for your honesty too and I can imagine it's super frustrating! I do not think that sounds narcissistic, I think you are right. I find it extremely frustrating too and I am just a user and learner of TEAM. I think I "see it" sometimes since I've done some personal work. I'm still human with many flaws as I am sure you caught on to a few in my email. I completely agree with all of your points. I genuinely do not understand how TEAM-CBT is not the go-to. It is finally a scientific method that is proven to be effective. It truly leaves me speechless and I could ramble about TEAM for hours to be honest! I am a registered nurse and I have a difficult time seeing my patients being "thrown" anti-depressants etc. The biological theory was the go-to in mental health and about 10 years ago as I was finishing my nursing degree I read When Panic Attacks. It was mind blowing to me. At the time I was working on a Stroke Rehab unit and the psychologist would recommend our depressed and anxious patients be put on medication. When I asked if she had heard about your work she scoffed at it and it made me so mad! I wanted to scream at her to read your work but she was resistant to even listening and perhaps that will not surprise you based on your points (and also how I incorrectly tried to sell it to her!). I would see so many of my patients put on antidepressants and left alone afterwards as if that would solve everything. Even recently during my labour and delivery training we had a psychologist speak to us about post partum mood "disorders" and she specifically mentioned her patients "yes-butting" her and made a joke about how resistant they are to change and I just had this thought HELLOOOOO has agenda setting not been around for years????? Do people not search out solutions and try to be better? I could Google "my patient is yes-butting me" and your work would come up and it is not easy but it is spelled-out and so accessible to learn. Anyway, I could rant forever. I'm on the same page with you, Dr. Burns! Thank you for the follow-up email as well. You are right on this one for sure- my therapist observer totally was inaccurate! And I was thinking "I wonder what her EOV is here and if that was effective". I had asked that question in the chat after the webinar but it was at the end and we did not get to it So next time I will ask that as a question in my email instead. I had not seen confrontation used like that and it did seem off-putting and that just shows how well-versed you are in its use and how I am a learner. Thank you for the feedback. This is making me laugh because I am in the Fast-Track course and I really strive on feedback, and I like getting errors over with. In my nursing career I always had "med error" as the thing I never wanted to do and it felt so good when I finally made one (and it also helps the patient was fine haha). So, I had this thought about learning TEAM and how I know that the therapists are never accurate and how I never want to be the therapist that assumes their thinking. So, I am very happy to have done it already and I have not even started the course really. I want to comment and ask about the spiritual aspect of TEAM. Did you find the spirituality came after personal work or did you see the spiritual aspect before or just as you were developing the whole process? Externalization of voices and a daily mood log is what got me to enlightenment, but it is hard to put into words. I had blips of the euphoria enlightenment over the years but about 5 years ago I had this "big one" and it was not euphoric. It was nothing (but everything) and it was like I became an observer and absolutely none of my thoughts had emotional attachments. It was instant relief of human suffering for sure. Sorry if this is bizarre and I am not sure if this resonates or if I sound like a crazy person. In your podcast with Lee you mentioned that enlightenment is lonely and so I thought maybe you have been here. When it first happened it was an overwhelm of being just matter and being everything and nothing all at once. I could see humanity from an outside perspective almost. I was raised catholic and everything that I learned made sense but in a very different way than I was taught - it was like I understood what Buddha and you and the bible talks about but the deeper meaning if that makes sense. And I sat in the observer role for a couple of days and it was fine because I had no emotional attachment. Actually, as a test I looked at my husband when he got home from work the day it happened and I recognized him of course but I just felt the baseline contentment or a peace overall. The nothingness and the everythingness all at once. When I looked at him I had no emotions or gut reactions or anything and when I thought "that is my husband" I had no emotional ties but I could recognize that my human self loves him but even that love was all created from nothing and everything. This sounds so bizarre! Day 3 or 4 I went to a house party and again I was just an observer and recognized that my human ego is very tied to wanting others to like me, when I attempted humor it would be to serve my ego, before I'd try to make people laugh for me rather for them and a lot of our actions are tied to our egos. After this party, maybe the next day or something I also saw that as I was observing that although I had no emotional ties that also means…I had no emotional ties! It came to me that to live a human life I cannot be in this enlightenment stage. It was lonely even though that did not bother me at the time and seeing humans from this outside perspective is incredibly hard to describe and was overwhelming. So in my enlightenment it was almost like I had to decide to step back into trying to be human so I could carry on with life and try and find these emotional ties and what to do with this awareness of my flaws and what even my personality is. It has rocked me a bit! I have decided to just follow things that I find fun or challenging or have become an interest and the flaws quickly followed! Have you heard of anyone having a bit of fear in reaching enlightenment again? Although the initial hit was so awesome and a huge relief of suffering, I experienced truly what it is like to not have flaws and not have any emotional ties to thoughts. I do have some interesting anxious thoughts about going "back there" and this was the perfect example of "everything in moderation". I must love my flaws haha. Thanks for your time, Dr. Burns! I thought I had heard you mention during a podcast that you feel disappointed if you don't see change in a 2 hour session maybe while you were empathizing with another therapist so I apologize that I was wrong there. I am most likely remembering it incorrectly or I presented the context incorrectly -it's a common flaw of mine haha usually I need to write things down. Looking forward to hearing back, Jenn David's response to Jenn Thanks, Jenn. Awesome email. In the context of my empathizing with another therapist, I could well have said something like that for sure! You are dipping into enlightenment. Way to go. Very exciting, and now YOU will be the expert. When I lived in Philadelphia, I was lucky to audit a class by James Arbukcle at Temple University on structural equation modeling. It was unbelievably exciting for me, and even though I was in private practice, I went once a week for the three hour seminar and did 20 hours of homework every week. I could not believe my good fortune, as he made everything super simple and clear. It was a wow experience every week. For quite a while, I would ask him question when I got stuck or puzzled analyzing my data with his AMOS program, and he seemed to know everything. Which was also cool. Then, one day, he started answer my questions by saying, "Actually, I don't know the answer to that." Like, the first time this happened I asked him the cause of Heywood cases. That where you get a seemingly impossible result, like a correlation greater than one. But then, an odd thing happened. I found that if I worked at it, I could figure these things out for myself. And often, the answers would come to me in a dream, in the middle of the night. So, like James, I probably can't answer all your questions anymore, although hopefully I can still answer a few of them! By the way, James Arbuckle was one of the most amazing teachers I've ever had, and I will forever be grateful for his generosity in letting me audit his class--I was not even a student at Temple--two years in a row for free. And what I learned forever changed my career and my life, especially my way of thinking about research and statistical analyses. Warmly, david Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David

TEAM Trauma Treatment-- How Does It Work? And Why?  Featuring Dr. Jill Levitt Today's podcast features one of our favorite guests, Dr. Jill Levitt, who is one of the greatest psychology teachers on planet earth. We explore trauma, and how it is treated. We focus in particular on the unique features of trauma treatment using TEAM CBT. Jill is currently the Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California, but she has had intensive training in trauma treatment beginning during her psychology internship at the Cornell Medical Center (? is this correct) in 200? (dates please Jill) and continuing until (date please.) She worked with adults survivors of childhood physical and sexual abuse, as well as victims of the 2011 tragedy at the world trade center, which happened when she was working in New York. She got extra training from several outstanding experts in the treatment of trauma and anxiety, including the renown Dr. Edna Foa, from Temple University in Philadelphia, as well as (please list if you like, Jill!) Rhonda also has extensive experience in the treatment of trauma since she worked for (x years, please fill in) at th San Francisco Rape and Trauma Clinical. Rhonda emphasized the importance of shame and toxic but high irrational self-blame so often seen in trauma patients of all ages, including, of course, children. Jill and Rhonda emphasized the importance of the selective use of exposure techniques with trauma patients, and the unfortunate fear that many, and perhaps most, therapists have of these techniques, wrongly fearing that the patient will decompensate and that the therapist, too, will become overwhelmed when hearing the patient recount their horrific experiences in detail. I, David, will add that I've never had a negative experience with the use of exposure techniques, like cognitive flooding, memory rescripting, and many more with any trauma patients. However, I always do E = Empathy first, as well as A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, to guarantee that the patient and I will be working together as a collaborative team. Rhonda asked us to talk a bit about "vicarious trauma" that the therapist might experience when working with trauma patients. Both Jill and David said they've never experienced this, and that only our thoughts, and not the experiences our patients describe, can upset us. We believe the concept of "vicarious trauma" is highly (but not intentionally) misleading and needlessly frightening to those working with trauma patients. Of course, if a therapist does become triggered when working with any patient, including a trauma patient, that is grist for the mill for the therapist to work out with their own therapist, using perhaps the Daily Mood Log to explore and challenge the therapist's upsetting negative thoughts. Perhaps the most important theme today focused on the treatment of trauma patients--as well as non-trauma patients--individually, using TEAM to pinpoint one moment the patient was upset, and exploring their negative thoughts and feelings with the help of the Daily Mood Log, as well as the other vitally important components of T E A M. I (David) do not place much stock in treating patients with "formulas" based on their "diagnosis" or problem. I did 20 or more two day trauma workshops around the US and Canada several years back, and treated a volunteer from the audience at each workshop on the evening of day 1, using a two-hour TEAM CBT session. In all or nearly all of these sessions, the individuals experienced a triumphant and blow-away elimination of all their negative feelings by the end of the demonstration. But here's the interesting thing: although I occasionally included cognitive exposure, it was perhaps the technique I used the least often with these individuals. Far more powerful for most were techniques like Explain the Distortions, the Paradoxical Double Standard Technique, and the Externalization of Voices. Sometime, an interpersonal technique, including the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, was helpful, even life-changing. If you are interested, you can read about those sessions in Chapter X in my most recent book, Feeling Great, as well as illustrations of the data from all the patients, showing the dramatic changes in negative and positive feelings from the start to the end of the sessions. Why did these individuals recover so dramatically and quickly--within a single session? I believe it was because I focused on what was upsetting THEM, and developing an agenda and selecting methods to focus on what they wanted. This, to my way of thinking, is different, even radically different, from imposing a pre-set agenda on patients simply because we think they have some type of trauma diagnosis. David described the three elements of an "abuse contract" between the abuser and the victim: I get to hurt or exploit you for my own pleasure. The Blame will be 100% on you. I am a blameless, superior god. We must keep this as a secret, even between us. If you violate this, I will hurt you very badly. Thanks for listening today! Jill, Rhonda, and David

 The 2025 Feeling Good Podcast Survey Featuring Sevde Kalidiroglu, Director of Marketing, Feeling Great app This is the third survey of our podcast fans since the first podcast was broadcast on October 27, 2016, and the most recent was roughly five years ago. Our awesome Director Marketing at the Feeling Great app conducted the survey and prepared the report which you can review if you CLICK HERE Essentially, we wanted to know a little bit about who you are and why you listen, and what you like the most, and least, and what kinds of changes you'd like to see. 183 of you graciously completed the survey. Thanks! We discussed many of the findings on the podcast, and you can click the link above for the full report, but here are just a few highlights: Roughly 1/4 of you are mental health professionals, and 3/4 are general public. Men and women were represented equally. 60% of you are from the US, and 40% of you are international listeners. The age range is heavily tilted toward the older generation, with 66% of you above 50 years of age, and not a single podcast fan less than 20 years old! And why do you listen? Nearly 90% of you are listening to improve your emotional well-being. This was great to hear, and consistent with the many emails I receive describing the help so many of you have gotten from the podcast. In fact, one recent podcast fan fired their therapist due to lack of progress, having made much more progress from listening to the podcast. Many of you listen in order to learn TEAM CBT techniques, including therapists who want to improve their clinical skills as well as individuals who want to learn techniques they can use in their daily lives. Other reasons for listening include: Improve my own emotional well-being 87.1% Learn therapy techniques 57.9% Learn about mental health topics 53.4% Support friends/family 49.4% Entertainment 20.2%“ One respondent wrote: "The podcast helps me apply tools to real-life problems that day—whether loneliness, meaning, or mood swings.” If you click on the survey, you'll find a plethora of interesting findings, clearly presented. Rhonda and I are grateful to you, Sevde, for compiling this information, and we are all very grateful to you, our loyal fans, for sticking with us all these years! We will try hard to be mindful of the take-home messages at the end, which included: Key Recommendations 1. Keep Live Therapy and How-To episodes front and center 2. Reduce episode length & polish editing 3. Bridge podcast and app more clearly (especially in the U.S.) 4. Refresh branding and improve accessibility 5. Add diversity in guest speakers and clinical styles 6. Prioritize topics like perfectionism, trauma, resistance, and self-defeating beliefs 7. Keep posting webinar recordings as podcast episodes Thanks for listening today! Sevde, Rhonda, and David

The Music of TEAM-- A Little Different from the Music of REBT! There are many paradoxes in TEAM! That's part of what makes TEAM challenging, but also exciting. Do you know what the plural of paradox is? Paradise! Sometimes, music allows us to "see" or "get" something that pure thinking struggles with. Years ago, followers of the renowned but controversial Dr. Albert Ellis loved singing the famous and outrageous songs written by Dr. Ellis and featuring key ideas in the Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT) he created. They were popular because they captured his core messages, involving low frustration tolerance, whining and complaining, and more. Dr. Ellis wrote the words, and the music came from popular songs familiar to anyone, like Battle Hymn of the Republic, and many others. If you like, you can hear a brief interview with Dr. Ellis, and listen as he discusses the dire “need” for love and sings one of his songs about the need (demand) for love AT THIS LINK Although none of the REBT songs made the top list on the top ten charts, they brought tons of glee to his many fans, especially when the participants at his psychotherapy conferences would sing them together. His humorous music made it a little easier for some of us to recognize the absurdity in the intense “shoulds” we direct against ourselves when we fall short and a world that isn't the way it “should” be, according to our narcissistic rules! Today, we hear some of the music of TEAM CBT which seems to be increasing in popularity recently. However, the themes are quite different from the cutting and sarcastic music of the Albert Ellis era. Instead, they tend to focus on some of the more tender and inspiring messages of TEAM CBT. For example, I've often described a key idea that I learned from my beloved cat, teacher, and friend, Obie: “When you no longer need to be special, the world becomes special.” The message focuses on the perfectionism and self-criticism that so many patients and therapists alike indulge in, criticizing themselves mercilessly for every error, failure, and shortcoming, thinking that if they work hard enough, they will achieve something tremendous and attain a lofty status of true “specialness.” You will hear the song, “Am I Special?” on today's podcast. The lyrics of “Am I Special?” were written by Angela Poch, the music was written by Shalynn Burton. Angela Poch put together the virtual choir featuring Rachael, Shalynn, Brandon Vance, Eric Burns and Heather Clague. The Acceptance Paradox is at the core of that song and many TEAM CBT techniques—finding joy and enlightenment when you accept your shitty, below average self. And here's the essence of the Acceptance Paradox: When you accept yourself exactly as you are, warts and all, everything suddenly changes. You perceive yourself and your world through new eyes, and you see that everything is actually quite different from the way you thought, and you experience a sense of freedom, liberation, and joy. David Burns, MD This is a paradox because total acceptance and total change appear to be exact opposites! But in fact, their the exact same thing! Along the same lines, the so-called "Great Death" of the "self" is actually the "Great Rebirth," or a great "waking up" from a trance. Much of today's music revolves around those kinds of themes. And some of it focuses on the Five Secrets of Effective Communication and the Disarming Technique, which highlights another key paradox that I call the Law of Opposites: When someone criticizes you with an unfair and untrue criticism, you will the overwhelming urge to argue and defend yourself. If you give in to this urge—and nearly everybody does—you will actually PROVE that the criticism was actually 100% valid, and the critic will continue to attack and criticize you. That's a Paradox! And here's the other side of that paradox: If you immediately, humbly, and genuinely agree with a criticism that sounds unfair and untrue, you will instantly put the lie to it, and the criticism will suddenly realize that the criticism simply isn't true. That's also a Paradox. So much for the background, and some of the philosophy behind the music you'll hear today. First, here are the performers you'll hear in today's podcast, with brief bio sketches: Mark Noble, PhD is a famed neuroscientist and recently certified TEAM CBT coach. Today, he sings three songs with guitar: Placebo, Mind Warp, and Song of My Self. You can contact him at mark_noble@urmc.rochester.edu Heather Clague, MD is a psychiatrist and Level 5 Advanced Master TEAM therapist practicing in Oakland, California. Heather and her colleague, Brandon Vance, MD, are the originators of the immensely popular Feeling Great and Feeling Great app book clubs. For more information, got to https://www.heatherclaguemd.com. Brandon Vance, MD is also a psychiatrist and Level 4 Master TEAM therapist and song writer practicing in Oakland. For more information, go to https://www.feelinggreattherapycenter.com/brandonvance. He works with Heather on a variety of immensely popular Feeling Great book and app clubs. Heather and Brandon sang the song Heather wrote, “TEAM Is Paradoxical.” In addition to singing, Heather plays the ukulele. Erik Burns is the son of David Burns, MD. He lives with his wife and son in Santa Cruz, California, and practices hypnosomatic therapy for individuals struggling with anxiety as well as those with gastrointestinal complaints. He was recently featured on the Feeling Good Podcast (#435, February 10th, 2025: https://feelinggood.com/2025/02/10/435-meet-erik-burns/). You can learn more about Erik's life and practice at https://www.instagram.com/erikburns.bloom/. Shalynn Burton, ACSW is TEAM therapist who practices virtually throughout California at the Feeling Good Institute. She specializes in anxiety, dating/ relationship, race/ethnic challenges, social skills, self-esteem, and more. To learn more, you can check her out at https://feelinggoodinstitute.com/find-cbt-therapist/shalynn-burton. Rachel Dillman is a singer / songwriter who creates music to help people build greater resilience. To learn more, check her out at www.linkedin.com/in/rachmd www.resilwave.com. She asked me to emphasize that that her songs help her memorize and put into practice important concepts, like the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. In addition, she is a strong believer that songs can influence our thoughts and emotions. You can hear her songs such as Change How You Feel, Five Secrets, and more at the link above! Angel Poch is an immensely popular and talented TEAM CBT coach and teacher. She practices in Canada, and offers TEAM CBT training internationally through her many outstanding virtual classes and certification program for coaches. For more information, see https://angelapoch.com// Angela also wrote the songs: “Feeling Great,” and “Tell Me the Truth.” Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Angela, Rachel, Shalynn, Erik, Heather, Brandon, Mark, and David

Defeat Perfectionism  and Discover the Art of Self-Acceptance Part 2 of 2 Last week, we published Part 1 of the two-hour webinar on techniques to defeat perfectionism. This week, in Part 2 you'll learn many powerful methods to crush the distorted thoughts that trigger perfectionism, including Identify the Distortions Explain the Distortions The Externalization of Voices The Acceptance Paradox The Counter-Attack Technique The Feared Fantasy Technique Self-Disclosure Relapse Prevention Training And more! You can take a look at the workshop handout if you CLICK HERE! This live, practical training will equip you with powerful, research-backed techniques to help yourself and your clients transform perfectionism into peace, power, self-acceptance, and emotional freedom, all illustrated with dramatic video clips from an actual TEAM CBT session with a woman struggling mightily from brutal self-criticisms, self-doubt, and sleepless nights, due to the very perfectionism that has catapulted her into an incredible career. Thanks for listening today! And please let us know if you like (or do not care for) these two part-podcasts based on one of my two hour webinars with Dr. Jill Levitt!  Jill, David and Rhonda

Defeat Perfectionism  and Discover the Art of Self-Acceptance Part 1 of 2 This Is for Everyone--Shrinks AND the General Public! On Wednesday, July 9, 2025, Dr. Jill Levitt and I did a FREE, two-hour webinar on one of the most common causes of stress and feelings of inadequacy--perfectionism. More than 2200 individuals registered, reflecting the widespread interest in this topic. Although perfectionism causes lots of suffering, it's not easy to get rid of this mindset because it can promise and sometimes deliver tremendous benefits, too! Rhonda and I will be presenting this webinar on the podcast in two parts. This week, in Part 1 you'll learn About the many emotional consequences of perfectionism How to identify the perfectionistic beliefs that fuel anxiety, procrastination, and shame How and why these beliefs can trigger immense emotional pain How to use Positive Reframing and the Cost-Benefit Analysis to melt away your resistance to change. You can take a look at the workshop handout if you CLICK HERE! Next week, in Part 2, you'll learn many powerful methods to crush the distorted thoughts that trigger perfectionism, including Identify the Distortions Explain the Distortions The Externalization of Voices The Acceptance Paradox The Counter-Attack Technique The Feared Fantasy Technique Self-Disclosure Relapse Prevention Training And more! This live, practical training will equip you with powerful, research-backed techniques to help yourself and your clients transform perfectionism into peace, power, self-acceptance, and emotional freedom, all illustrated with dramatic video clips from an actual TEAM CBT session with a woman struggling mightily from brutal self-criticisms, self-doubt, and sleepless nights, due to the very perfectionism that has catapulted her into an incredible career. Thanks for listening today! Jill, David and Rhonda

Ask David: How to Stop Giving a Crap Motivating a Procrastinator . . . and More The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today's questions. 1. Chris has a question about Positive Reframing and the Magic Dial. 2. Joe asks: What method would be best to stop giving a crap? 3. Ollie asks: How do you motivate a procrastinating patient to do the hard work of facing the task they've been putting off? 4. Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? 5. Owen also asks: Is it okay to copy the positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant?   1. Chris asks about Positive Reframing and the Magic Dial. Hi David! I'm currently on my third re-read of "Feeling Great" and want to thank you for the positive changes and progress I have experienced in my life as a result of the techniques and information present in the book. My question is, when you use positive reframing, and identify all the advantages of a negative thought, but still decide, "Hey I would still like to reduce my suffering, in spite of all these good things. But I would love to keep the advantages too." Does this mean my conviction for change is not strong enough? Or is this when I should transition to the magic dial technique and try to keep the best of both worlds ? Thank you in advance, Christian David's reply Thanks, do the Magic Dial and you can have it both ways. However, keep this in mind, or perhaps discover it later on. Once you start to challenge your thoughts successfully, and your belief in your negative thoughts diminishes substantially, you may decide to lower your feelings even further, possibly all the way to zero. And at that point, you're probably ready for Relapse Prevention Training as described in the book. The Feeling Great app is free this summer if you're in the US, so that might help you along the trail if needed. Warmly, David Can I use this as an Ask David question on one of our Ask podcasts? d Christian responds Hello David, Thank you for your in depth response, that's really handy. Part of me is really hoping I'll want to lower my ratings even further, but I think as you have outlined many times, honoring my resistance is important if I want to get to that point. It's weird isn't it, I know at an intellectual level I want these things to happen, but at the gut level part of me is still holding on. I would love to use the app, however I'm based in the UK and it isn't available to me, I saw on the FAQ on the website that it may be getting released in other parts of the world soon ? I also hope there will be more and more TEAM-CBT therapists available in the UK in future too ! Absolutely, I would love for my question to be featured in the podcast ! Warm Regards, Christian   2. Joe asks: What method would be best to stop giving a crap? Hey Dr. Burns, Your two most recent webinars have been very helpful, especially Overcoming Perfectionism, yet I still struggle hard with perfectionism. [To be specific, I put a video out there that people enjoyed (internally) and that I spent a month on, only to get mostly ignored, and I feel defeated.] What method would be best to stop giving a crap? Thanks! Joe David's Reply As I have said so often, I don't recommend “methods” for “problems.” I use TEAM, a process. I sometimes have the same problem with media interviews. I am often asked to give three tips on this or that problem, like gaining self-esteem or whatever. For example, a Chinese interviewer asked for “tips” on overcoming depression, like spending more time in nature or more time with friends and the people you care about. I am not happy about such questions, as my answer is that I'm a no tips please type of guy. I have developed many powerful processes for dealing with a variety of common problems. For example, for individual mood problems I find it extremely useful to start out with a partially completed Daily Mood Log, and for a relationship problem a partially completed Relationship Journal can lead to some fantastic and revealing work. But as far as general “tips” for not “giving a crap” if you're struggling with perfectionism, I can only quote what the Buddha said nearly 2,500 years ago: “General tips suck! Give me something specific and real, please!” Best, david   3. How can you motivate someone who procrastinates? Dear David, I have a question but first I'd like to tell you and the team just how much I'm loving the app. Especially since you gave the AI a voice so now we can speak with it rather than typing out responses. Now it feels so quick and easy. Sometimes, I find it can be hard to motivate myself to do the self-help work but talking to the app makes the process effortless. It really does feel like having a friend who's got your best interest at heart, and they're available to talk to you whenever you need them. My question is about the role of therapists when it comes to patient motivation. I was hoping you could clarify why when patients present with anxiety, we know they will predictably resist doing exposure, but as a therapist it is necessary to press the matter. However, when working with a procrastinating patient, they will almost always show similar process resistance (to doing whatever it is they're procrastinating about), but your recommendation (as far as I understand it) is not to push them to do anything. Not to help motivate them to do the hard work. Is there a reason for this difference, or have I misunderstood entirely? Warmest regards, Ollie David's Reply I can make this an Ask David question, and thanks. Appreciate the kind comments. As a therapist working with anxiety or depression, I work out the Outcome and Process Resistance before trying to “help.” So, the depressed patient must agree to homework, and the anxious patient must agree to exposure, in order for us to work together on those problems. This is called Dangling the Carrot, Gentle Ultimatum, and Sitting with Open Hands and sometimes with Fallback Position at the end. If a patient wants help with procrastination, they must agree to the five-minute rule, to get started at a specific time today, even if they don't feel motivated. I see it as the same thing: making the patient accountable and giving the patient free will to decide what they are willing to do—or not willing to do. I would never try to motivate a procrastinating patient! That's not on the menu. However, I can help them get started if they need help, but I the first five things they have to do into simple things taking 15 seconds each, like sit in my chair might be the first step in organizing you desk. Then reaching for a piece of paper that needs filing. Etc. Five minutes work of little things. You might want to listen to / search the podcasts for this process. We'll mention a bit more on the podcast. Warmly, david If I missed it, try again!    4. Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? Hi Dr. Burns, Thank you again for all the incredible content you've been sharing—both the Feeling Good podcast and your Feeling Great videos. You're so engaging and natural on camera, it's hard to believe you were ever camera-shy! The Ask David segments are always a highlight of my Mondays. I just had two quick questions about the Daily Mood Log. I often find it takes me several hours to complete one fully, including the positive reframing. Should I aim to complete a full log each day for maximum benefit, or is it okay to work through one gradually over several days? I often get unrelated negative thoughts while still working on a previous log, which means I can't get to the new ones right away. David's Reply Hi Owen, Yes, you can spread it out for sure. david   5. Owen asks: To speed things up, is it okay to copy positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant, or is it better to start fresh each time? Thanks so much in advance, Owen (assumed name) David's Reply Hi Owen, Yes, you can use previous PR! Will include your questions at the upcoming Ask David podcast. Can we use your first name? david At our next Ask David, we'll start out with this question: 1. Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? What do you think? Yes? No? Maybe? We did a survey among our group in preparation for the next Ask, and it was two “no's” (Matt and David) and one “yes” (Rhonda). So stay tuned next week for the discussion of this question that comes up often in different disguises. For example, we often hear heated proclamations on whether love is an adult human “need.” What do you think about that question? Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

Ask David-- The Fear of Happiness! Although we had five questions for today's Ask David episode, we spend the entire podcast on the first question from a man with an intense fear of happiness. He wrote: How can I use exposure to overcome my fear of happiness? Hi David, How would you do exposure for the fear of happiness? Whenever I feel happy I immediately feel afraid because I had a very strict religious upbringing where many harmless forms of fun and enjoyment were completely forbidden. Even though I'm no longer a religious believer, the fear remains. Feeling good then makes me afraid, anxious and insomniac. This often goes on for days after something good happens and it almost seems as if I AM being punished after all! How can I recover when feeling good makes me feel so bad? Love your work and all that you do. Best regards, Tomas David's reply As I have said on numerous occasions, I do NOT recommend “methods” (like exposure) for “problems” (like your “fear of happiness.”) I think your problem is very treatable, but I work with patients systematically, and that doesn't mean starting out with a “method,” like exposure or any other method. I use a step by step approach, using T = Testing, E – Empathy, A = Assessment of Resistance, and M = Methods in a sequence. In addition, when I work with anxiety, I always incorporate these four approaches with every patient I work with: The Motivational Model: I bring Outcome and Process Resistance to conscious awareness and melt them away, if possible, using a variety of TEAM CBT approaches. The Cognitive Model: This involves a well-done Daily Mood Log to identify and challenge the distorted negative thoughts at one moment in time. The Exposure Model: Facing your fears, or testing them with an experiment. This is frightening, but required of every anxious patient. The Hidden Emotion Model: This is based on the idea that only “nice” people struggle with anxiety, with only a few exceptions, and that an unacknowledged problem is often hiding right behind the anxiety. The cure requires the Detective Step: identifying what the hidden emotion or feeling is. The Action Step: Expressing the suppressed feeling and or dealing with the problem you are avoiding. Your fear of happiness is an interesting problem for sure. One of my favorite movies, “Babette's Feast,” involves this theme. If you want some help, you could send me a partially completed Daily Mood Log. You will discover that you are the only one who is doing the punishing! It is that belittling, intimidating voice in your own head that is causing 100% of your suffering. I look forward to helping you challenge those voices! In the meantime, I'll add this to the latest Ask David podcast questions, in the hopes you might send the DML, and then Rhonda and I can comment in greater depth on the live program. Best, david Tomas kindly sent a Daily Mood Log, which you can see if you CLICK HERE As you can see, the Upsetting Event is simply “studying mathematics,” something he loves. However, he has the belief that if he allows himself to enjoy this or any activity, something terrible will happen to him. He traces this to a strict religious upbringing, and perhaps also to bullying he endured as a kid. You can see that this is intensely upsetting to him. If you look you will see that in 8 of the 9 categories of emotions on his Daily Mood Log (DML), he scores in the range of 80 to 100, which is intense and severe to extreme. The only emotion category that is not extremely elevated is the anger cluster, which he rated at only 40. You can see as well that his negative thoughts all involve the theme of punishment and destruction if he allows himself to feel happiness and enjoyment of life, or if he advances himself in life. In some of the emails he sent me, he traces this back to being bullied when young. . . possibly by kids who were jealous of his high IQ. As mentioned above, I don't throw methods (like exposure) at people based on a problem or diagnosis (in his case a phobia, the fear of happiness.) I also mentioned that I go through the T E A M model in a sequence, starting with Testing and Empathy, followed by the Assessment of Resistance and culminating in Methods. In addition, I always treat anxious patients with four powerful models, including the Motivational Model, the Cognitive Model, the Exposure Model, and the Hidden Emotion Model. I described these models above. The Motivational Model The Outcome Resistance has to do with the fact that Tomas may resist treatment because of his fear of the consequences of successfully achieving happiness. We will deal with that with Positive Reframing, including the Miracle Cure Question, the Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and the Magic Dial. In addition, we'll have to deal with Process Resistance. At some point, we will have to use exposure techniques, and we will want to find out if he's WILLING to do exposure even though it may be extremely anxiety provoking at first. We can dangle the carrot, letting him know that we anticipate a positive outcome, but also understand that facing his worst fears may be terrifying at first, and very uncomfortable. I will not try to persuade him to use any of the many versions of Exposure. He will have to persuade me that he's willing to do it. I suspect he will be, because he is asking for exposure, but if he says he wants to be treated without exposure, I will have to let him know I am not a good choice as a therapist for him! That's because I don't know how to defeat any form of anxiety without exposure. Of course, I cannot treat Tomas, or anyone, through an Ask David, but can only make teaching points. But I am teaching self-help techniques that have been helpful to many people. In an email, I asked him the Magic Button question, and he said he didn't think he'd push it. This indicates some understandable resistance that has to be dealt with. Positive Reframing is one way to deal with Outcome Resistance. The goal is not only deeper empathy but also helping patients “see” that the negative thoughts and feelings they are struggling so desperately to overcome are actually positive in many ways. Once they “see” this, it is kind of a pleasant shock to the system, and their resistance to change typically disappears. Then we ask them to set goals for each negative feelings—a lower level of each feeling that would allow them to feel better and not lose all the wonderful positives we have discovered. That's why it's better NOT to push the Magic Button. To help Tomas or anyone see and list the positives in their negative thoughts and feelings, we ask two key questions about each one: What are some possible advantages, or benefits, of this negative thought or feeling? How might it help me? What does this negative thought or feeling show about me and my core values as a human being that's positive and awesome? Typically, this leads to list of 10 to 20 positives that have three characteristics. To give you an example, his intense loneliness is an expression of his love for people and the great value he sees in meaningful relationships. And his anxiety serves to protect him from danger, and is therefore an expression of self-love. And his feelings of inferiority—in spite of his tremendous intelligence—show humility, which is not only a spiritual quality, but also can make a person of great intelligence more accessible, more vulnerable, and more attractive. Inferiority may also be an expression of his honesty and willingness to acknowledge his shortcomings, as well as his accountability. We could easily go on and on, and it might be a great exercise for you to try find the positives in several other of his negative thoughts and feelings by asking those two questions. Once my patient and I have listed 10 or more positives, I ask if these positives are True and valid? Powerful? Important? Nearly always, I get a resounding YES to each question. Then I use the Magic Dial to see what they might want to dial each negative feeling down to in the % Goal column of the Daily Mood Log. Is this Positive Reframing process straightforward? Easy? Not really. I make it look easy, because when I teach I want people to understand, but “seeing” these positives is, in reality, incredibly challenging for most people. In fact, You can see the Positive Reframing that Tomas completed on his own if you CLICK HERE As you can see Tomas almost completely missed the boat when he tried to identify the positives in his negative thoughts and feelings. I mention this because it is a CRUCIAL step in TEAM CBT, and people often have a tremendously hard time “seeing” the positives in their negative thoughts and feelings. A big part of the reason is that society teaches us the opposite. In fact, negative feelings are Labeled as a bewildering array of more than 200 so-called “mental disorders” by the American Psychiatric Association in their “bible,” the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.) But here's something even MORE surprising. Rhonda—a highly respected and admired TEAM CBT therapist and teacher—also struggles to find the positives during today's podcast. Once someone has pointed them out, you can suddenly “see” them. But on your own, you may have a lot of trouble at first with Positive Reframing, which is anything but simple, but extraordinarily powerful once you “get it.” I recently told my weekly Tuesday psychotherapy training group at Stanford that TEAM CBT is extraordinarily difficult to learn and master—nearly always requiring years of study and practice—and perhaps the most challenging form of psychotherapy ever developed. She was angry and told me I'd have to do large controlled outcome studies to validate that claim! Yikes! I may be wrong, and there could be other more difficult forms of therapy, but I still believe what I'm saying because I see it every single day. Many of the most powerful and helpful concepts, such as the four “Great Deaths” of the “self” for the therapist and for the patient in TEAM, and the Acceptance Paradox, and more are hard to learn! But worth it, IF you take the time to learn this method. And if you wish to use TEAM CBT, on yourself (for self-help) or with your patients (if you're a therapist) you will have much greater success after you master this powerful but elusive skill. The Cognitive Model After Rhonda and I worked with Positive Reframing, we went on to the technique that usually starts the M = Methods section, called “Explain the Distortions.” This powerful method includes answering three questions about one or several of the distortions you can find in one of the thoughts you want to work on first. First, select the thought and identify all the distortions in it, listing them by abbreviations in the Distortion column on your Daily Mood Log. For example, if it is an example of All-or-Nothing you can put AON in that column. And you can put OG for Overgeneralization, and so forth. Often, you will find five or even ten distortions in a single negative thought. Let's say you work on, “If I'm happy, I'll be destroyed.” This alarming thought includes AON; LAB, FT, DP, and ER. And it's also a Hidden SS. Choose the distortion you want to work on first. Let's say it's Fortune Telling (FT). Why is this distortion, FT, considered a thinking error in general? Why does the FT distortion your specific thought pretty much make the thought unreasonable? In other words, Why does the FT in your thought NOT map onto reality? And finally, why is the FT is this thought unfair? As an exercise, turn off the podcast for a moment and write down your answers to those three questions. Once you're done, you can check the answers at the end of the show notes. It's a great skill to practice and learn, because it will usually make it really easy for you to generate positive thoughts that satisfy the necessary and sufficient conditions for emotional change. Do you know what they are? Write them down before you look at the answers at the end of the show notes. Just take a guess, but WRITE SOMETHING DOWN before you look! But DON'T look until you've written down your own answers! Hey, did you peek, or did you write down the answers first? I get it! And I forgive you! However, you missed out on a great opportunity for learning if you skipped the written exercise. Or, to put it positively, I try to make the exercises fun and interesting. And if you do them, you'll learn some cool and helpful things rapidly. It's like riding a bicycle. You've got to get on and ride to learn how to do it! But here's what's really interesting. You'll notice that Rhonda, once again, really struggles with this exercise during the podcast. Although I think of Explain the Distortions as a really easy TEAM CBT method, experience with real people has over and over again provided abundant evidence that it's NOT easy for many, or possibly most, people at first. So, what's the point? Here's the point. If you're a therapist, this method is powerful, and will richly reward you for the time and effort you spend in learning how to do it! But you cannot take it for granted if you want to use it in an actual therapy session. And if you are simply looking for self-help, the exact same thing is true: the method is incredibly helpful and well worth some time and effort to “get it!” In addition, to challenging the obviously distorted thoughts on his Daily Mood Log, what other methods might be helpful to Tomas? The Exposure Model Well, there are a great many, including the Exposure techniques he was asking for. For example, he could intentionally make himself happy, and then fantasize some horrible punishment using Cognitive Flooding. The idea would be to make himself as anxious as possible for as long as possible, until he finally gets bored with the fantasy, which will definitely happen eventually, and the anxiety disappears. Exposure is terrifying at first, and it is supposed to be. That's whey and how it works! The Hidden Emotion Model There are many helpful variations on the Exposure front, and the Hidden Emotion Model might also be key. Is there some problem or issue in his life that Tomas is not dealing with? The Class on this technique in the (now entirely free for the summer of 2025 app) Feeling Great app has many details and exercises and examples to show how this mind-blowing technique works. That's it for today's podcast. I want to thank you, Tomas, for providing us with a fascinating problem, and all of you who send in your questions. We are SO GRATEFUL that you are bouncing back, Rhonda, after your ordeal with radiation therapy for your lymphoma, and send you all our love and best wishes for joyful and complete healing and liberation from your nightmare! Warmly, Rhonda and David Answers Here is my answer to first exercise on the necessary and sufficient conditions for emotional change from a positive thought. . The necessary condition for emotional change: The Positive Thought must be 100% correct. The sufficient condition for emotional change: The Positive Thought must reduce your belief in the disturbing negative thought. Sometimes you'll want to reduce it all the way to zero. Sometimes, that's not necessary, especially with Should Statements. Here are my answers to the three questions about Explain the Distortions above. In general, FT is a thinking error when you are making arbitrary alarming predictions without strong evidence that supports those predictions. In particular, there is no evidence that supports the claim that people who feel happy rapidly become the victims of some horrific disaster or punishment. This thought is very unrealistic because the ONLY punishment that Tomas has experienced is the result of his own negative thoughts! This thought is unfair because it puts Tomas in handcuffs so he will be unable to enjoy his life.

I can't wait to share this episode with you, where I got to interview an absolute icon of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy, Dr David Burns.Dr. David Burns is an Adjunct Clinical Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Stanford University School of Medicine. He's an award-winning researcher, teacher, and best-selling author of self help books including Feeling Good, with more than 10 million copies sold worldwide, and he's the host of Feeling Good podcast, which has received over 9 million downloads. Dr. Burns was a pioneer in the development of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy and is the creator of TEAM CBT, which makes rapid recovery from depression and anxiety possible. His Feeling Great app triggers 60 to 70% reductions in feelings of depression and anxiety in less than one day, which is what we're all looking for!Join me, Dr Julie, and my special guest, Dr David Burns, as we break down the fascinating TEAM approach to CBT, and how you can use that new understanding to help you understand & challenge your hot thoughts.Click to listen now!To download Dr Burns' amazing FREE CBT app, visit: https://www.instagram.com/feelinggreatapp/@FeelingGreatApp Visit us on Instagram at MyCBTPodcast Or on Facebook at Dr Julie Osborn Subscribe to the podcast at Apple Podcasts Email us at mycbtpodcast@gmail.com Find some fun CBT tools at https://www.mycbt.store/ Thanks for listening to My CBT Podcast!

Part 1 of Our Personal Work with Rhonda The doctor said I have cancer!  Are feelings of depression, fear, anger, hopelessness, and more inevitable if you have experienced a severely traumatic event? Nearly all human beings would say it IS inevitable. But are they right? If your doctor just told you that you have a serious form of cancer, is it possible--or even desirable--to avoid intense distress and despair? Today, Matthew May MD and I sit down with our beloved Rhonda who was diagnosed roughly six weeks ago with a cancerous follicular lymphoma. This is a type of lymphatic cancer that allows for a reasonably long life expectancy, but is almost universally fatal. With one exception—if you find and treat it super early. And that is where Rhonda finds herself. And today, she received her (hopefully) 12th and final radiation treatment to her neck, right under her right ear. She was told that the probability of a cure is 95%, but the effects, including painful side effects, of the radiation would be cumulative and increasing for a while after the series of treatments has been concluded. And she IS in considerable discomvort. Which was good news, great news, actually, for all of us! Still, it's been a rocky and highly emotional road for Rhonda. So Matt and I sat down with her early this morning to see if we, with the help of TEAM CBT, might be able to bring her some accurate empathy and comfort. In the session, Matt and I went through the T E A M sequence with Rhonda. T = Testing You can see Rhonda's initial Brief Mood Survey if you CLICK HERE As you can see from her Brief Mood Survey, which was completed before the session began, she was only mildly elevated in depression, anxiety, and anger, but her positive feelings of happiness were very low (only 8 our of 20, with 0 being not happiness at all in any category and 20 being the highest possible happiness. in all categories.) E = Empathy However, as Matt and I empathized with Rhonda, we reviewed her partially completed Daily Mood Log, which you can see if you CLICK HERE This tool painted a radically different picture. Rhonda's scores in nearly all categories were extremely elevated, indicating about the most intense feelings of depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, inadequacy, hopelessness, frustration, anger, and shock, as you can imagine. She was also moderately self-conscious and embarrassed. Four radically important question came to mind: What was causing these intensely negative and almost unbearable feelings? Is there any realistic hope of reducing them during today's session? And if you did want to "help," how in the world would you attempt to do this? And how much "help" could you realistically hope for? If you're serious about these topics, I would strongly recommend that you take a piece of paper and jot down your answers to these questions right now, before you listen to the rest of session. Then, after you listen to the conclusion next week, you can compare what happened with your own ideas about the situation. , During the empathy phase, Matt and I used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication to understand exactly how Rhonda was think, and how she was really feeling inside. We also did a What-If / Downward Arrow Technique to find out what she was the most afraid of. If you haven't already listened to that portion of our work with her. What do you think she was most afraid of in having cancer? And why, do you suppose, she was feeling so guilty? And so angry? We also explored the impact of the side effects of the radiation therapy, and the impact of the cancer on her personal and family relationships, the errors others made in trying to "help" when she was feeling down, and her fears of the future. At the end of the empathy phase, we asked Rhonda to grade us in three categories: How well did David and Matt understand your thoughts? How well did David and Matt understand how you were feeling inside? How well did David and Matt so in creating an atmosphere of trust, warmth, and acceptance? If you're a mental health professional and you do psychotherapy, I have another question for you before we continue: What % of your patients do you ask these three questions part way through your sessions? Raise your hand if the answer is "most, if not all, of my sessions." Yikes! I don't see many hands going up! I don't want to upset you, and you may not take me seriously, but you might be missing the boat! At any rate, Rhonda gave us a triple A +. That's definitely a passing grade, and she gave us the green light to go on to the final two steps of the TEAM session(/the A and the M steps), which you'll hear in their entirety on our very next podcast! Thanks for listening today! And make sure you tune in next week for the awesome conclusion of our work with our beloved Rhonda! Rhonda, Matt, and David

Dating, Part 3 Flirting Secrets, Safety, and More! Today we feature, Dr. Leigh Harrington and Dr. Angela Krumm, who will tell us how to flirt and date skillfully. Both Leigh and Angela are highly advanced TEAM CBT therapists and beloved friends and long-time members of our TEAM Community. Bio sketches for both go here. Include the idea that Leigh is a psychiatrist who specializes in social anxiety, relationship problems, bad habits, and depression, as well as traversing difficult situations with grace. Angela is a clinical psychologist and co-founder of the Feeling Good Institute in Mt. View, California. She specializes in social anxiety, teaching flirting skills, treating phobias, as well as health and lifestyle changes. Leigh and Angela, let me know what you want for your contact information at the end of the show notes, like email, website, whatever you prefer in case listeners want to contact you. Also, if you have recent pics we can use in the show notes, that's cool, too, but not required. Rhonda began the show, as usual, with a warm-hearted endorsement, this one from a fan who greatly appreciated Dr. Taylor Chesney's recent podcast on how to communicate with teenagers who may seem rebellious and out of control. The listener said it helped tremendously in her interaction with her 15 year old stepdaughter. I was not surprised, as Taylor is always filled with great wisdom and awesome advice in her teachings—something I also appreciate tremendously. The take-home message was to use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, instead of trying to control them. Form a meaningful and loving relationship. It will pay off in the long run, and in the short run as well! Leigh began today's podcast with a focus on safety when dating strangers, having fun on your dates, how to avoid dating the “wrong” people, how to tame your “dating addiction,” and how to set yourself up for success. Angela then taught us how to generate a fun and meaningful conversation with people you meet, and how to flirt and get things started in a positive direction. She explained that she went through a divorce when she was still young, and got lots of help in her flirting skills from several dear colleagues, including Maor Katz, Jacob Towery, and Stephen Pfleiderer. Mastering these skills was very helpful, and is now more than happy to share the incredible tips she picked up at that time, as well as her personal experiences, which culminated in a successful second marriage and family with an awesome hunk of a guy she met, using these skills. Leigh described how she works with patients who are shy by going out with them to public places where they can encounter and interact with strangers so as to confront and overcome inhibitions and intense anxiety. She said this kind of dramatic experience can have a sudden beneficial impact. She described taking a patient to a drugstore to ask a clerk about the best products for a toenail fungus. The clerk was exceptionally helpful and friendly. Leigh emphasized the power of sharing vulnerabilities to enhance connection with others. Angela said she does the same, going out with patients to approach strangers on the street with innocuous “openers” like asking questions, asking for recommendations, asking someone to settle a debate or something you're puzzling over, finding a connection/something in common, or giving compliments. Although these things may seem overly easy to folks who have never struggled with social anxiety, they can be huge accomplishments for people who have struggled with social anxiety. For example, if you're at the grocery store, you might position yourself near someone new and make a comment that seemingly could be directed at them or at no one at all. Something like, “There are so many types of apples. How does anyone pick?” These types of openers are low stakes and give the other person a chance to respond and strike up a conversation or simply move on. In general, she reminded us that it's a cognitive distortion to assume that people will find out attempts to talk to them irritating or burdensome. Most people appreciate positive attention and like being helpful. Or, if you're at the grocery store, you might say “Oh, there are so many types of apples here today. I'm not sure which type to buy.” You can also ask strangers for advice; this can be effective because people like to be helpful and it sets them at ease. Angela has prepared a guide describing many valuable flirting skills which you can see if you click here! She also included some invaluable dating tips on avoiding dating the wrong people, safety, and more, which you can see if you CLICK HERE Angela explained many additional key concepts, like Angela explained many additional key concepts, like False time-constraints (taking the pressure off others by keeping initial asks for time short; keeping initial dates short to leave others wanting more) How to decide how much to share when deciding to try to deepen emotional intimacy. Physical and emotional intimacy—how much should you share, and when? Angela suggested that you can use a hierarchy of sharing – testing the waters by sharing things that aren't too vulnerable for you. Then observe their responses. If they respond respectfully, you can go a bit deeper. So, in a sense, you are doing experiments to guide the ship. This is less stressful than thinking you are being judged and that you have to “perform.” It's important NOT to chase. For example, once you start dating someone, you might say, “I can only date you once per week.” Then the other person can ask, “Well, why not twice a week?” Now you're the chased, and not the chaser! Angela says that “It's always smart to be a little less than 100% available.” It's great to work to keep your life full and active so you can set these limits genuinely. I have shared some of these tips with young people who are dating. Sometimes they protest and say, “I shouldn't have to play games like that.” Here's my (David's) answer: “In fact you DON'T have to play games. And if your current approach is working well for you, that's cool. But if you find you're getting left behind too often, you might have to rethink your strategies, and stop believing that you know all the answers! Humans are manufactured to certain specifications—they are very predictable. And, if you're smart, you can use that knowledge to your advantage, instead of being gullible and overly idealistic. Leigh provided more invaluable information on the important topic of safety when dating. She does not give out her phone number, and especially not her address, for the first X number of dates. Also, you need to attend to your instincts, such as “I have a funny feeling about this person, but I'm not sure why!” LISTEN to that inner voice. She advises, if you feel SAFE you can have more fun, greater freedom, and more enjoyment. Angela said you can also ask for consent before you touch, but you can do it in a flirty way, such as: “You look like you want to kiss me. Is that right?” Of, “I know I'll really regret it if I don't ask you to kiss me.” Leigh advised noticing body language. Where are they looking? Notice their eyes, and make contact with their eyes. Their eyes will nearly always be sending a signal. Leigh said that early in a potentially exciting relationship, you may be waiting for a signal from the other person between dates. For example, have they called or texted you? But you don't have to wait. You can take the initiative. For example, you can send them a good night text, and see if they respond. You can even do it a couple times. This is a good experiment to see if there are some embers burning while you fan the flames a little. Thanks for listening today! Rhonda and I want to thank Angela and Leigh for such thoughtful and illuminating teaching. We hope it brings some courage and love into your life! Leigh, Angela, Rhonda, and David  

Dating, Part 2 Do you need some love? Expert dating advice today! Today we feature two of our favorite people, Dr. Kyle Jones and Dr. Carly Zankman, who will discuss many aspects of dating. Both Kyle and Carly are advanced and highly effective TEAM CBT therapists with tons of experience in dating, and of course, in treatment. They share their personal experiences, as well as their considerable therapeutic expertise, in this highly energetic podcast. They cover a wide range of topics including ghosting, dealing with people who give you the run-around, negative self-fulfilling prophecies, Rejection Practice, how to avoid “chasing” (which Kyle calls the “Temptations Trap”) so you can be the one who's being chased instead of the one who's doing the chasing, the importance of being playful and how to make dating fun. The also encouraged avoiding some of the common kinds of negative self-talk, like “This date will suck,” or “I'll always be alone,” or “People shouldn't be so superficial,” etc. Kyle and David discussed Kyle's first Sunday hike. Kyle had just been rejected by his boyfriend, and was feeling super down, telling  himself he was a reject and a loser. They describe how Kyle change his internal dialogue during the hike, and began to talk to himself as a winner, as an awesome, hot, sexy guy, which lifted his mood tremendously. Then David suggested a strategy designed to turn the tables on his ex-boyfriend: “Just go to a gay singles bar tonight and pick up some good looking guy and get laid! If you do that, I can guarantee your Ex will come crawling back, and then you can kick some sand in his face!” Abd that's exactly what happened! David emphasized the importance of looking your best, in terms of clothing and appearance, when dating, as well as the resistance that some people have (mostly men) who insist they “shouldn't have to play the gain.” I described my collaboration with a salesperson at the King of Prussia Bloomingdale's named Kuniko Finkelstein when I was in clinical practice in Philadelphia. I used to refer my single guys to her for a “sex uniform,” and she would select extremely sexy and appealing outfits for them. We highlighted the self-centeredness and foolishness of telling yourself that women or men should love me for the way I am. They say, “I shouldn't have to play the game.” Of course, you DON'T have to play the game, but if you don't, you may and probably will end up alone! And once you DO learn how to “play the game,” your chances of finding a deep and meaningful love relationship go way up. About Kyle and Carly Kyle Jones, PhD, is a licensed clinical psychologist with a private telehealth practice serving clients throughout California. He is a Level 4 Advanced TEAM-CBT therapist and trainer.  Kyle specializes in helping individuals navigate anxiety, relationship challenges, and obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), with a warm, and evidence-based TEAM approach. In addition to his clinical work, Dr. Jones co-leads The OCD Consultation Group, a monthly peer forum for clinicians dedicated to enhancing their skills in treating OCD. He also serves as adjunct faculty at Palo Alto University, where he teaches in both the master's and doctoral programs in clinical psychology. A proud alumnus of UC Santa Barbara, Dr. Jones recently joined the alumni council for the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences, mentoring students and supporting the next generation of mental health professionals. Carly Zankman, PsyD., is a Clinical Psychologist and Level 4 Advanced TEAM-CBT therapist and trainer based in Mountain View, California.  She specialized in working with younger adults and teens, helping them recover from anxiety and other mood challenges, such as social anxiety and fears of rejection and vulnerability, low self-esteem, trauma, and relationship issues.  Carly loves using TEAM-CBT and Exposure Methods to help her clients overcome their fears, create deeper, genuine connection, and live more authentic, joyous lives! Since 2021 the Feeling Great Book Club has been a way for people across the world to come together in learning and practicing powerful self-help CBT Tools in a group book club format guided by your transformative book Feeling Great and facilitated by Brandon a Vance and Heather Clague, two psychiatrists expert in TEAM CBT. The Awesome Feeling Great Book Club Returns! It includes: - Large Group Demonstrations - Small Group discussions and practice, facilitated by former book club members. - Some small groups specifically for those using the Feeling Great App   - Two 12 week online groups starting mid September and going until the first week in December, - meeting 80-minutes a session - either Mondays at 4pm or Wednesdays at 8:30am Pacific Time so they can be accessible to people all over the world. Cost is $240 for the series, sliding scale down to whatever you can afford. For more detail and to register, go to www.FeelingGreatTherapyCenter.com/Book-Club

Dating, Part 1 Navigating the Dreaded (But Sometimes Needed) Dating Apps! Today we started a series on one of my favorite topics: dating. When I was in clinical practice in Philadelphia, a large proportion of my patients self-identified as single, without partner, so this was one of my favorite problems to help people with, and why I wrote the book, Intimate Connections, which included my some of my personal experiences learning about dating during my medical school days at Stanford. Our special guests include our own TEAM CBT expert, Jacob Towery, MD, who presents the free annual two-day marathon on shyness called “Finding Humans Less Scary.” He will be presenting this program at Esalen as well from September 8 – 12, 2025. Check out the September 8 - 12 shyness workshop at the beautiful and dramatic Esalen in the Big Sur! We are also joined by two wonderful young ladies: Sydney, who graduated in 2024 from University of Santa Cruz, and Sophie, who recently graduated from UC Berkely. They will give us some first-hand experiences and suggestions in the navigation of dating apps. Jacob said that after his divorce in 2012, until 2020, he went on a lot of dating apps and met nearly 200 women this way, exploring both short and long-term types of dating. He said it is sometimes difficult to figure out what someone is really looking for on an app, whereas in person it is easier. The group described the tendency to treat people as objects and ghost them when you decide you're not interested. He recommended, instead, to treat people with dignity and care, even if you're not romantically interested in them. He said that whether you've been on one or many dates, don't just ghost someone. Instead, you can let someone down gently if you aren't interested. For example, at the end of a first date in which you don't find yourself attracted to the other person, you could say “I didn't feel a spark but I enjoyed our time together. Thanks for hanging out with me.” This will make it clear to the other person you won't be asking for another date, but in a kind way, and prevents them wondering for days if you will ask them out again. In addition, he advised that initially, don't just text people back and forth endlessly. Instead, get into real life ASAP. Meet them for coffee or ice cream or whatever would be fun. That way you can find out whether or not there's a spark of interest. Jacob also recommended using a recent photo of yourself. If you use an older photo of yourself, the other person may be disappointed when they meet you! Jacob recommended being honest about what your interests are, and what you are looking for. Are you just looking for casual dating? Are you only looking for something that may evolve into a long term relationship? Are you interested in having children? What are your interests or hobbies? The group discussed many topics, like is it okay for a woman to take the initiative and ask people out they are interested in? It's easy to get overwhelmed by having too many offers, too many to select from. And the whole process can be incredibly exhausting. How do you make conversation in a way that will turn the other person on and make them interested in you? What's the secret? How do you overcome the fear of rejection? And what if you protect yourself from the fear of rejection by hiding personal information about yourself. For example, you may think that if you didn't really open up to the other person, their rejection will be less painful because they didn't see your so-called “real” self. Jacob emphasized the importance of being playful and creative when dating. People really like to have fun. Being overly serious or heavy can be a turn-off. Thanks for listening today! Future topics will include how to flirt, how to change the way you think when you're rejected, making people chase you, how to get close, and more! Rhonda, Jacob, Sydney, Sophie, and David

Teen Troubles? Don't Freak Out! Featuring Dr. Taylor Chesney Today, we are thrilled to welcome Dr. Taylor Chesney to our podcast on troubled teens—what actually works! Taylor has been on a number of previous podcasts, and has been a beloved member of the TEAM community for many years! We were lucky to have her here in person as a member of our weekly TEAM CBT training group for several years until she and her husband finally returned home to New York in 2014 where she established her booming clinical practice working with kids and teens. She and her husband, Gregg, have four children of their own, ranging from 11 to 2 ½, so she brings a great deal of practical experience to complement her brilliant technical skills. Taylor will teach us how parents can deal effectively with troubled and impulsive and often smelly and irritating teens. I think you will find her message highly practical and inspiring, and perhaps the opposite of the ways you may have reacted to frustrating teenagers in the past. She says her goal is to help parents feel more confident in dealing with their teens and to teach them how to develop greater teamwork, love and understanding by integrating the Five Secrets of Effective Communication into their daily parenting toolkit. She says that “teen brains are different. They act out impulsively when angry, and can be hard to tolerate at times, or even often.” The goal is to learn to see the world through their eyes, and to become comfortable with being uncomfortable with their behavior. Remember that teens are supposed to be irritable and angry as they grow more and more independent, which is healthy. Compared to an adult brain that is more developed, has better impulse control, and “should be” able to tolerate emotions better. She thinks that parents can often do a great deal more than a shrink, especially if the parents are willing to learn how to listen and connect more effectively with their children. She says, “teen brains are changing constantly. Teens are frustrating. They are angry, disorganized, and want more than anything to spend time with their friends. They often complain, and might say that a party they went to was “lame and it sucked because the parents were there, constantly hanging around. They don't trust us!” Don't argue or contradict them, or try to teach them “good lessons”. Instead use Thought Empathy, Feeling Empathy, and Disarming. Summarize their words and feelings, and find truth in what they are saying. For example, you might say, “That does sound disappointing, having the parents there supervising all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if you feel frustrated and ticked off.” You want them to talk! And they WILL talk if you listen instead of trying to fix or control them. Suppose your teen says, “My teacher sucks. I turned my homework in late, so he deducted 5 points. But I was up late helping my friend on the phone, and I forgot.” You could say, “That sounds super frustrating. I know how much you care about your friends, and would do anything to help them out. It sounds super frustrating that you got marked down on your homework. I know that school is super important to you, too.” In other words, your goal is to provide support and warmth, rather than trying to discipline or scold them. They want to please you, but if you put them down when they are complaining, that will push them away and will cast a shadow on your relationships with them. You'll get frustrated and the tension will escalate, and you may end up shouting at them in exasperation. Then you'll get down on yourself as well, and you may feel like a bad mom or a bad dad. Taylor points out that if we can't model calmness at those moments of tension, then our kids won't learn how to be calm in the midst of conflict, either. They'll just learn to shout and argue—the very behavior that you're modeling. Suppose you ask them to do the dishes, but 30 minutes later they still haven't started. They got distracted. The idea is to use “Gentle Parenting,” showing some patience, warmth and understanding instead of flying off the handle. This does NOT mean giving in, but rather showing kindness when you have to remind them to do their chores. You might say, “I know you've got so much going on, and it can be hard to keep up with everything.” Your kids will become more and more independent as they gradually evolve from grammar school, where they are highly dependent on you, to middle school and then to high school. During this process, you gradually evolve from being highly controlling and protective to being more of an influencer and creating a loving relationship, a friendship, with your child. At the same time that you attend to changes in your “outer dialogue” with your child, it's important to notice your “inner dialogue.” This refers to the way you talk to yourself about our child, and these messages can sometimes be huge barriers to using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. For example, if you tell yourself that your child is “bad,” this may trigger strong feelings of anger and resentment which will make it vastly more difficult, or almost impossible, to use the Five Secrets. Taylor reminds us that “if you can't or won't learn to see the world through your children's eyes, you are essentially rejecting them and their world, and you will not be able to connect with them. But many parents resist or reject this strategy for a variety of reasons. For example, you may confuse empathy with being weak, or giving with giving in. You may be afraid that if you empathize, your children will walk all over you and run wild. But in point of fact, if you yell and lose your cool, you've lost the battle. You simply cannot force them to go to sleep, or to eat what you want them to eat, or to do what you want them to do. And if you fight your battle at the height of the conflict, when the negative feelings are their most intense, you lower the odds of success dramatically. Give them the message of love, even at the height of the battle. It's not about control, but connection. We demonstrated these beautiful ideas during the podcast with some role-playing and role-reversals. Taylor, your message was crystal clear, simple, powerful, and inspiring. Rhonda and I and all of our fans are indebted to you for visiting today! A big hug and thanks! Taylor, Rhonda and David

Perfectionism Update Featuring Adam Holman Today we are joined by Adam Holman, LCSW. Adam has recently left his full time clinical practice in Arizona to join our Feeling Great app team here in San Francisco. I think you'll be delighted by his warmth and wisdom. Although he works with us full-time, he still practices one day per week and specializes in X depression, anxiety, and screen addiction(e.g. video game addiction and more.) He has appeared on two previous Feeling Good Podcasts, # X and # Y. We are delighted to have Adam as the honored guest on today's Ask David podcast! Today's questions come all the way from North Macedonia! Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind response. I'd be truly honored if my questions could be considered for a future episode of your Ask David podcast. Your work has been a key influence in my research on perfectionism and its cognitive-behavioral aspects. Here are a few brief questions I'm currently exploring: How has your view of perfectionism evolved since Feeling Good? What strategies have you found most effective for challenging perfectionistic thinking in therapy? Is perfectionism often rooted in a fear of not being “good enough”? How does it typically manifest in academic or professional environments? If you happen to include any of these in a future episode, I'd be grateful if you could let me know so I can tune in. Thank you again for your time and for the lasting impact of your work. Warm regards, Mitko Toshev Doctoral Student Faculty of Pedagogy University “St. Kliment Ohridski” – Bitola North Macedonia David's Reply Yes, this will make for an excellent podcast with a refresher on perfectionism, featuring questions from Mitko and a spirited discussion with Adam, Rhonda and yours truly! We had an in depth discussion of all the latest bells and whistles in the treatment of perfectionism with TEAM CBT. This included the two very different but complementary approaches to treating depression or any of the 23 common Self-Defeating Beliefs. So, if you've ever struggle with the thought that you're not good enough, or that you SHOULDN'T have made this or that mistake, this podcast will be right up your alley! Thanks, Mitko! david

Secrets of Superb Interviewing-- How to Be Everyone's Number 1 Choice! Today we feature our beloved Kyle Jones, Ph.D, a clinical psychologist who suggested we might do a really cool podcast on the interviewing skills featured in Chapter 16 of my Feeling Good Handbook. Rhonda and I are absolutely delighted to welcome Kyle for his third appearance on to the Feeling Good Podcast. (Rhonda had to excuse herself after introducing this episode because she was not feeling well) In that chapter on interviewing skills, I listed the five basic principles of successfully interviewing for a job, for admissions to a school, or really almost any type of interview at all. I have to warn you that these ideas may be unfamiliar, and will definitely be quite different from what you've been taught about winning interviews. #1: Be personable and friendly. Don't try to impress the person who's interviewing you! #2 Make them sell themselves to you. #3 Be honest, but present yourself in a positive light. #4 Don't get defensive. #5 Punt when you don't know the answer to the question. To illustrate the first idea, I told a story from Dale Carnegie's book on How to Win Friends and Influence People, in which he describes his interview with a wealth and powerful man in the hopes of soliciting a donation  for the Boy Scouts of America. This was back in the era many years ago when the Scouts were still very popular. The receptionist who made the appointment warned Dale Carnegie that he would have only 15 minutes, and emphasized that her boss was 100% meticulous about time. He started exactly on time, and ended exactly on time, whether or not you were done, so he better talk fast once the interview started. When the time came, and Dale Carnegie entered the office, the receptionist again reminded him that he'd be kicked out after 15 minutes no matter what! As he walked in, Dale Carnegie spotted a trophy fish proudly displayed on the wall above the rich man's desk, and asked, if the wealthy man he'd caught it. himself, The rich man said he had caught it in lake so and so. Dale Carnegie got excited and said, "I fish there too. Where, exactly, were you fishing on the lake when you caught this fish?" The man told him where his favorite fishing hole was, and they become engrossed in a vibrant conversation about the joys of fishing. Suddenly, the office door opened, and the receptionist appeared and said the time was up. On the way out, the wealthy man said, "Oh, I forgot to ask you what the purpose of the interview was." Dale Carnegie said, "Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that I am trying to raise money to support the Boy Scouts of America." The man replied, "You'll receive a check in the mail tomorrow for a million dollars." And those were the days when that was an enormous amount of money. What's the moral of the story? Relate to the person who's interviewing you as a person, and show an interest in them, instead of pitching your talking points and trying to impress them. People usually make decisions influenced greatly by how much they like the person they are talking to. Don't try to be impressive. Aim for friendly, real and human. How do you do this? Well, let's say that you have an interview with a law firm, hoping to get hired, and you're just out of law school. I used to be the shrink for the University of Pennsylvania Law School, and at the time there were too many law school  graduates looking for too few job openings, and almost no one was hiring. They referred despondent and panicky students to me who'd had a string of rejections. At the time, the top firms had at least 50 to 100 top notch candidates for every position. Was there any hope of starting their careers? I told them to do some research on the person who was going to interview them, or on their firm. Find something interesting about them. Then, at the start of the interview you can say something like this: "I'm so excited to meet you because I've been following your work for some time. I was amazed and blown away by your strategy in the X, Y, and Z case, and I was wondering if you're still using that approach in litigation and how it's been working out? I'd love to hear more about your work, and how you came up with the approach you're using, and what you like the best about this firm." This will get them to talking about themselves. DON'T try to impress them with how great you are . That will just bore them, or turn them off, and it will certainly put you under pressure to perform. This pressure will probably make you anxious, and your  anxiety and insecurity will show. Instead, impress them with how great THEY are. They'll love you! I trained the students in this doing role-playing of imaginary job interviews. Every student I trained in this approach became the #1 choice at every firm they interviewed at! This approach is not just for law students, it's for every type of job, as well as interviews for college, graduate school, and more. Here's the underlying idea. People don't really care much about you. They care about themselves. This is true of all of us. So, use this to your advantage, and you'll suddenly be super happy and glad you were OTHER centered and not SELF centered! Does this mean you should hide your own skills and accomplishments? Of course now. You can answer questions about what you offer with humility and integrity. But that alone will rarely be enough. #2 Make them sell themselves to you. Let's say you're applying for graduate school, and it's very competitive. Again, they have 100 brilliant candidates for every position. Suppose the interview says something challenging, like "As you know, all the top candidates in the Unites States apply to us here at Harvard. Most of them were #1 in the their college classes and several have already been nominated for Nobel Prizes. Why should we be interested in you?" This, of course, is absurd, but I'm taking the worst imaginable question in an interview. Yikes! This sounds impossible, right? How in the world could you respond? Actually, it's easy. You can just say, "Gosh, I don't know if I'd be a good fit here. That's what I'm hoping to learn today. Maybe you can tell me what you're looking for in a top notch candidate. What kinds of candidates have gone on to be stars, and what types have been disappointments? Then I can give you a better answer on whether or not I might be a good fit. Although I love your company, and I'm so impressed with your own career, I wouldn't want to accept a job unless I was convinced I could really contribute to your firm." Is this realistic, or just some David fantasy? During my senior year in college, I was planning to go to graduate school in clinical psychology, since I'd majored in philosophy and psychology seemed like a way more practical career.  However, my college adviser said that medical school would be a far better choice because medications were becoming more and more important in treating mental illnesses, and only psychiatrists could prescribe drugs. I told him that I'd never had any interest in being a medical doctor, and wasn't even a premed student, so there was no way I could get into medical school. I hadn't even had a single biology class in college. He said "That won't be a problem I don't think. You've got the gift of gab, and they probably won't even notice." So, I applied to a number of medical schools and landed an interview at Stanford, and several others. My interview was with someone in the Anatomy Department which was located in the basement of the museum on campus. I went down the stairs and into a room where I met the man who was interviewing me. I said, "It's a bit dark down here. Is this where the medical students dissect their cadavers?" He said, "Absolutely. But it's actually pretty awesome down here. In fact, my laboratory his just down the hall. I said, "Oh, could I see your laboratory? I'd love to take a look and find out what kind of research you do." He seemed excited and as we walked into his lab I noticed all kinds of fancy equipment and read the name on one of them, so kind of photometer or something. I had no idea what it was, but said, "Oh, I see you have an X, Y Z photometer. (or whatever it was). Do you use this in your research?" He said, "Oh, absolutely, it's extremely important in my research." I asked him about the research he did. He excitedly started explaining it, and for the most part I had no idea what he was talking about, but kept expressing interest and asking him for more and more information. I was terrified that he'd ask me questions about my undergraduate work and my research, which of course did not exist. I'd never done any research! Just philosophy classes and such. Well, we had quite the conversation, but after a while he suddenly looked at his watch and said, "Oh, my goodness. We were only supposed to talk for 15 minutes, and we've been talking for nearly two hours. I have to rush over to the medical school quad for an important meeting I'm almost late for. Why don't we walk over in that direction together?" As we were walking out of the basement, he said, "Oh, my goodness, I forgot to ask you who you are and where you're from." I said, "Oh, I'm David Burns from Amherst College." He said, "Well, David Burns, I want you to know that you're the kind of young man we need at the Stanford Medical School.!" I said, "It's really kind of you to say that, but I'm afraid I won't be able to come to the Stanford for medical school." He said, "That's nonsense? Of course you can come! Do you think Harvard is going to make you a better offer? We'll top anything they offer." I said, "Oh no, sir, that's not it. You see, my father is a minister, and we don't have much money, and I've heard that attending medical school would cost more than one hundred thousand dollars. And he believes that borrowing money is a sin." He said, "David Burns, I'm the head of the admissions committee, and that's where I'm headed right now. And I'm going to tell them that you're the #1 choice for admission this year. And you won't have to pay a thing. We'll pay for tuition, room, board, books, expenses, everything. It won't cost you one cent to go to Sanford medical school." I said, "Oh, thank you so much! That's an offer I can't refuse!" I got my acceptance letter two days later and the rest, as they say, is history. But to spell it out. Why was I accepted to a top-flight, highly competitive program when I had absolutely NO credentials? Because I expressed an interest in him, and I was friendly, and I believe that meant a great deal to him. And I'll always be grateful for his help. My wife and I returned to Stanford almost 30 years ago, where I've served on the voluntary (unpaid) faculty at the medical school, teaching  and doing research and continuing to develop TEAM CBT. I turned out to be a terrible medical student, and dropped out for a full year on two different times because I just wasn't the "medical" type. I had very little aptitude or interest in medicine. But I did end up as a psychiatrist, and came to love medicine and healing people who were suffering, and doing research. And my voluntary work is my way of trying to repay my tremendous debt to Stanford! And I'll never forget the kind gentleman who interviewed me. Kyle and I jammed on all five examples, including many additional stories to bring these ideas to life. Kyle used this strategy when interview for his internship in psychology, and it worked like a charm. I would say that I've taught many people how to use these ideas, including family members, students, and colleagues. The impact has been nothing short of incredible. That probably sounds over the top, and I "get it." But the stories are true, and the ideas can change your life. Remember what the Buddha said, 2500 years ago: "Selling yourself sucks! So, Stop it, and do what works!" Warmly, Rhonda, Kyle, and David Contact information Kyle is a superb TEAM CBT therapist who practices virtually throughout California. Here's his contact information:  Dr. Kyle Jones

I'm angry! A Once-UndocumentedImmigrant Speaks from the Heart-- Live Work with Sunny, Part 2 Last week you heard Part 1 of the Live work with Sunny, who's struggling with radically conflicting emotions. On the one hand, he has finally achieved his dream of an incredibly happy and fulfilling life, but he is frequently plunged into profound despair, fear, and anger because of the increasingly adverse political climate for people who are “different”—in gender identity, sexual orientation, nationality, political beliefs, skin color, and more. And he is shocked, fearful, and angered by the mean-spirited treatment so many are receiving—and which Sunny has endured throughout much of his life as well. Today, you will hear about how we set the A = agenda for our session with Sunny, along with the M = Methods we used. You can find Sunny's goals for each negative feeling at the end of the Positive Reframing, and at the end of M = Methods, if you Click here His scores on the Empathy and Helpfulness Scales in the Evaluation of Therapy Session were perfect. Here are some of the take-home lessons from this session with Sunny. 1.  Unhealthy negative feelings result from distorted negative thoughts, like “I'll be miserable forever.” Healthy negative feelings, in contrast, result from thoughts that are realistic and, for the most part, undistorted. Healthy negative feelings do not usually require any kind of “treatment,” but skillful empathic listening and support will nearly always be appreciated. 2.  Empathy can be very powerful, and it is absolutely necessary for a meaningful therapeutic relationship, but empathy alone is not enough to change the way someone feels. 3.  Finding compassion for someone who has harmed you, while extremely challenging, can also bring you peace. 4.  Emotions such as anger, sadness, and anxiety are important protective instincts. And one can feel these emotions and be compassionate and loving at the same time. 5.  As a therapist it can be tempting to either assume that you can't help a patient because their feelings are “normal,” or to try to cheerlead or problem-solve for a patient to cheer them up, but the TEAM-CBT model allows us to collaborate with the patient, understand when and how they want to change, honor their resistance to change, and offer them the tools they need to change in a way that honors their values. Thank you so much for listening and joining us. Rhonda, Jill and I are deeply indebted to you, Sunny, for your courage and vulnerability last week and today, letting us into your world on such a personal level. We love you and will always be grateful to have you in our lives, both professionally and personally! Sunny, Rhonda, Jill, and David

Ask David: The Awesome Hidden Emotion Technique Featuring Matthew May, MD with Rhonda and David The following answers to Ask David questions were written prior to the live podcast where Matt, David, Rhonda, and others discuss the questions in real time. Their answers may differ from Dr. Burns responses listed below. 1. Michael asks: How did you invent the Hidden Emotion Technique? It's been incredibly helpful to me! Hello, Dr. Burns, Your lifelong work continues to be invaluable to me and so many others, and I apologize if this question was answered on a previous podcast. To my knowledge, it hasn't been. I was wondering how you discovered or created the hidden emotion model? I recently struggled with inexplicable death anxiety that came on every night since college started back up, and I was at a loss, until I remembered the hidden emotion model and wondered if there was something I wasn't acknowledging? Sure enough, I discovered I was actually quite resentful of my new schedule not allowing me to easily fit the gym into my schedule unless I wanted to forgo valuable sleep. Once I had addressed this resentment, the death anxiety vanished. I would love to know how this wonderful technique became part of your phenomenal practice! -Sincerely, Michael Polus. David's reply You can read all about it in When Panic Attacks, when I learned about it accidentally based on an interaction with a patient who was stuck. Perhaps we can answer it on a podcast. Thanks! david   2. Janie asks: How can I help a patient who ruminates? My client ruminates, that is she experiences repetitive thoughts about conversations and gets stuck in the negative feelings that come from dwelling on those thoughts and conversations. She has referred to it as repetitive thinking about conversations that were distressing in some way. She replays the conversation in her head, and evaluates and re-evaluates her responses. She then plays the conversation using possible different responses she COULD have used and worries whether these would have been better responses. The first individual is a friend where the friendship is very challenging and interwoven into many parts of my patient's life. My patient ruminates about conversations and wonders over and over if she said the right thing or wonders how the friend took what was said. It is a loop that my patient often gets stuck in for long periods of the day. The second individual is my patient's husband. With him, she ruminates about how to say things to him so she can motivate him to be involved in the ways she wants him to be. We will work on these relationships using the 5 secrets eventually, but first she'd like to work on the rumination because it takes up so much of her time. How can I help her? David's Reply I would recommend TEAM CBT in a step-by-step manner. I do not, in general, like to throw techniques at people based on a description of a problem. Motivational techniques to reduce resistance and bring resistance to conscious awareness. Paradoxical Cost-Benefit Analysis Dangling the Carrot / Gentle Ultimatum / Sitting with Open Hands The Hidden Emotion Technique What If / Downward Arrow Technique ERP (Exposure plus response prevention) Many other techniques inspired by methods a and b above (TEAM CBT) Feared Fantasy: confronting her worst fear Five Secrets of Effective Communication Work on acceptance: she is perfectionistic and self-critical Hidden Emotion: anger Thanks for listening (and reading the show notes), David, Rhonda and Matt

Ask David My friend won't say thank you! Dating Anxiety Religion vs. Psychotherapy We want to remind you about an awesome virtual workshop on habits and addictions that Dr. Jill Levitt and David will be presenting on March 28, 2025 We will feature powerful new paradoxical techniques that will blow your socks off. It will be from 8:30 to 4:30 and you will earn 7 CE credits while having fun and learning how to heal yourself AND you patients. Check it out! It's less than two weeks away, some check it out while you still have time! You'' LOVE it and LEARN a LOT! Registration and More Information Here! As is so often the case, the answers to these questions that appear in the show notes were email replies to the person before the show. To get the full discussion, make sure you listen to the actual podcast, as the answers often evolve in unexpected ways when the “experts” hash it out! Today's episode is chock full of personal stories (some racy), expert Five Secrets advice and demonstration,  philosophical / spiritual discussion, and secrets of successful (and racy) dating. 1. Brittany asks: What can I do say to a friend who does not say “thank you” when I pay for our meal or drive a long distance just to see them? 2. Jaydipe asks: How can I get over my anxiety around attractive women? 3. Ali asks: Can religious beliefs cause or intensify feelings of anxiety? (David will talk about the synergies between TEAM CBT and spirituality in all religions. He will also mention the potential antagonisms.)   1. Brittany asks: What can I do say to a friend who does not say “thank you” when I pay for our meal or drive a long distance just to see them. Hello David and Rhonda, I have a friend who typically does not say thank you to me when I pay for a meal out or drive us a long distance. I am someone who always says thank you even if the other person just bought us $10 worth of fast food or gave a short ride. I find myself feeling resentful towards my friend for not saying anything when I pay and drive us around all day. It makes me feel like they don't appreciate it. At the same time, talking about it and sharing my feelings would then feel like I'm asking them to say it, and then it would not feel authentic. I have said something about it in the past, and they were like I'm sorry, thank you. But it didn't mean much at that point. Is this one of those annoying traits I just learn to accept? Thank you, Brittany David's reply Well, you could just use a gentle I Feel statement, which might be paradoxically stronger, but combined with Stroking. Like this, "Jennie, you know I think the world of you, and greatly enjoy our times together, but when I pay for lunch, or drive a distance to hang out with you, you rarely ever say "thank you," and then I feel hurt and unappreciated." Something like that combines Stroking with I Feel and might be effective. But I always rate myself on what I do, or say, and not so much on how the other person reacts. You could, perhaps, also ask if they are upset with you about something that they've had trouble expressing to you. Best, david 2. Jaydipe asks: How can I get over my anxiety around attractive women? Hi David Many thanks for the podcast I'm struggling with social anxiety and talking to attractive women and I've watched all the podcasts relating to it. I think deep down I have a shame around finding women attractive, so I find it difficult to express interest in them. I find that I can talk to them easily during activities like climbing or co workers, but even on dates with women I can't seem to take things forwards playfully like you'd expect on a date. I'm too serious and I think that turns people off. I feel like I'm under the spotlight and I have to impress them otherwise they won't like me. I know this isn't true and I've been trying to get myself to do exposure therapy by asking girls for their numbers and being rejected so it helps with that. Also, I struggle with societal expectations, I hear women say that they don't want to be approached or talked to or anything so I just end up avoiding them because I don't want to annoy them, but it holds me back from getting the sex and relationships I want Any help much appreciated Thanks, Jaydipe David's Reply I have included your excellent question on an upcoming Ask David. In the meantime, have you read my book on dating, Intimate Connections? Best, david PS Should I use your first name, or a fake first name? 3. Ali asks: Can religious beliefs cause or intensify feelings of anxiety? Dear Dr. Burns, After reading your books, I've started to recognize that many of my anxious beliefs seem to have a religious background. For example, in the Bible, there's a verse from John 5:14: “Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, ‘See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.'” Here's where I struggle: I want to live my life freely, which includes things like being with different girls before marriage (something I already do). But according to religion, this is considered adultery and a sin. Another verse that weighs heavily on me is from Matthew 5:27-29: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.” I often find myself looking at beautiful women on the street, which Christianity teaches is sinful, and this sometimes leads to feelings of guilt. I wonder: do I need to leave religion altogether to break free from these negative, self-critical thoughts? I also have other related thoughts that seem to link my faith with the good things happening in my life. For instance: My life is going well right now. My parents are alive, my brother is getting married, I'm healthy, and I've been fortunate in many ways. I've had incredible experiences, like participating in two Erasmus+ exchange programs in Poland and Lithuania during university, volunteering in Latvia for a year, and even having my New Zealand visa approved in a highly competitive process (only 100 spots for 85 million people, and the application closed in 5 minutes!). I often think that these blessings are because I believe in Jesus, follow the Bible, and try to live as a good person who avoids sin and doesn't deceive others. But then these anxious thoughts arise: I should always be thankful or pray, or else my life will fall apart. If I leave religion, something bad might happen—my parents could fall ill or pass away, and it would all feel like my fault for turning away from Jesus. Without faith, I'd lose my good fortune(luck), my appearance, and my opportunities. Wherever I apply to would be rejected, then I would understand that it was Jesus in the first place doing all of these things in my life, not me or vice versa! I'd find a terrible job, terrible working environment, terrible mutual relationships. Then everything would be my fault and I'd tell myself I should have believed in him in the first place but now I deserve everything that happens to me! These thoughts are overwhelming, and I'd love to hear your perspective on how to approach and challenge them. Thank you so much for your time and the invaluable insights you share in your work. Warm regards, Ali David's reply Hi Ali, Sorry you are struggling with so many restrictions, judgments, and inhibitions! I can imagine it triggers anxiety, guilt, inadequacy, resentment, discouragement, and more. You can let me know! If you want, I can include this as an Ask David question on a podcast, with your first name, or a fake first name. Let me know if this works for you. Also, what religion are you? I know that many religions around the world can be very fundamentalistic and super strict in their teachings. My own religious upbringing had a touch of rigidity, too. Best, david Ali's response to David Hello again, Actually, my family comes from the Christian (Orthodox-Armenian) minority in Turkey, where I was born and raised. So, I am an Orthodox Christian. You're absolutely right that I struggle with many restrictions and judgments. I'd love for you to include this as an "Ask David" question on a podcast since I haven't seen any episode (and I've listened to most of your recent podcasts, including number 408: Do You Believe in God? Does God Exist?) that addresses this topic. By the way, I already use an alias, so "Ali" is a fake name, but you're welcome to use it in your podcast! Here's a quick DML (Daily Mood Log) to clarify what I'm dealing with: The Upsetting Event: Doing my daily half-hour Bible reading before bed and coming across certain verses. Emotions: Sad: 60% Anxious/Worried: 70% Inadequate: 60% Guilty/Bad: 90% Abandoned: 70% Pessimistic/Discouraged: 80% Stuck: 75% Angry/Resentful: 75% Tricked/Duped: 80% Although I don't consider myself a devout Christian, over the past few years, I've started reading the Bible—the Old and New Testaments. Initially, I read them in my native language, but now I read in English to fully understand the content. Growing up in the church, I believed everything the priest taught. However, encountering some events and stories that seem illogical to me has made me question my beliefs. I often feel tricked and wonder if I've truly believed in all this. At the same time, I feel anxious and worried, as if questioning or criticizing my religion is a betrayal of God. Please let me know if you need any additional information. Ali David's reply Thanks, Ali, this is super. I was also raised in a somewhat strict Christian (Lutheran) home, and as a child had plans to become a minister, like my dad. In college, I learned critical thinking, and began to question some of what I was taught when I was growing up. For example, there seemed to be a bit of a bias against Jews, and my dad said they had to convert to Christianity to be  ”saved” and, I guess, avoid going to hell after they died. That didn't sound right at all, not loving, as Christ taught, who was himself a Jew, but hostile and judgmental. And I had good friends who were Jewish, so it felt offensive. Same with people who were gay. A strong bias that this was somehow “bad” and sinful, or something like that. Christianity, in the sense of the Catholic church, was really created by people a couple hundred years after Christ died, and they were reflecting their own human biases when they wrote the new testament and translated the old testaments. For better or worse, I am personally not afraid to disagree with much of what is in the Bible, and interpret it, not literally, but as a series of stories trying to communicate important spiritual truths, but these truths get quite distorted when people began focusing on literal truths, rather than “seeing” the message. Literal translations of religion risk missing the spiritual meaning and truth. This is especially true of the orthodox movement within any religion. This tendency toward being literal, rigid, and judgmental may be a partially inherited, genetic trait. Regardless, to me, it is offensive and ugly, and definitely not religious, but quite the opposite. In the early days, lots of religious cults emerged, and they all had their own special leaders. If your leader couldn't walk on water, that guru was considered inferior. So, it was fashionable to say that your spiritual guru could “walk on water.” What does that really mean? To me, it means that this person is pretty special, and much kinder and more loving than most others, and can perhaps convey some spiritual truths to us. But actual walking on water is a magic trick best left to television and stage magicians. This is my thinking only, and I do not wish to impose my thinking and beliefs on you or on anybody! I had tremendous respect and admiration for a Catholic nun, Sister Shela Flynn, who worked at my clinic in Philadelphia because she wanted to learn how to do CBT. She was humble and wonderful, and once shared with me that she also thought the stories in the bible were primarily metaphors, just stories trying to convey this or that idea about love, humility, and so forth. Not literally true stories you “had to” believe to be a “good Christian.” An, in addition, using my philosophy and CBT training, there is really no such “thing” as a “good Christian.” Positive and negative labels can be useful but can also be hurtful and destructive. Will stop babbling, and feel free to reject or ignore some or everything I am saying! But on an emotional level, I feel hurt, and angry about the literal “rules-based” versions of religion. Because I see, all over the world, atrocities being committed to a massive degree in the name of this or that “religion.” I am most comfortable with Buddhism, but even then, many people take it literally, make up rules, and so forth, just like other religions or spiritual “paths.” For some reason, people love to make up rules and then try to force others to conform to their beliefs and rules. This is due, in large part, to arrogance, and the desire to feel “special” and “superior” to others. These are not, to my way of thinking, spiritual qualities, but quite the opposite. Finally, I do not mention religion in my therapy, which is 100% secular, and based on research and on scientific research on how people actually change. But at the moment of recovery, which often happens in a flash, rather suddenly, the patient often “sees” something of a spiritual nature which they had not seen or grasped before. I have never seen anyone lose their religious beliefs because of effective therapy, but quite the opposite. In fact, what we might call “recovery from depression” (or some other problem) sometimes looks an awful lot like what the religious mystics from all religions have called “enlightenment.” So, that's the sermon my dad would have perhaps wanted me to preach from a pulpit! I guess this is my pulpit, and you are in my congregation! And this Sunday morning here in Los Altos, so that's the end of today's sermon! Best, david Contact information You can sign up for the David and Jill workshop on healthier habits here: cbt-workshop.com

Getting to Know David David Answers Personal Questions! We all know David Burns as the creator of TEAM-CBT, but not many people get to know David, the person. It is fun to know David the person, because he is just like all of us. He is a real person (not a robot), full of life and love. I want everyone in our audience to be able to relate to David on a deeper level, to feel a sense of connection with him, and hopefully for all of us to build our sense of community with each other. Thanks so much to Stan Dickens, TEAM UK, for submitting these questions and sparking this discussion. The complete list of questions was much longer, but I (Rhonda) have selected the ones listed below. I hope you like listening to this podcast, Rhonda The questions are not necessarily in the order listed below, but all are answered on this podcast. David's answers are all 100% spontaneous, and you will hear them on the podcast! Music & Entertainment 1.  Which band do you like most, the Beatles or the Rolling Stones? (David, please say The Beatles!) 2.  Following on from that, what kind of music do you listen to? Can you tell us about some of your favorite musicians, bands, or composers? Here are some links to just a few of a great many favorite songs of mine. David Tom Waits Never Let Go (of your hand) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pROjyuj2P8k&list=RDpROjyuj2P8k&start_radio=1&rv=fGe2igm7Ieo Rickey Nelson It's Up to You https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsBP5P0Xe2c&list=RDvsBP5P0Xe2c&start_radio=1 James Brown Please Please Please https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vruy2GRUsV8 Mick Jagger and Muddy Waters Please Don't Go! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbao_laqF8E Jim Croce I'll have to say I love you in a song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB6FQBp-YwU Last Train Home Pat Metheny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goXJTv_U-PM Lucy Thomas “Hallelujah” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLk9pzmaFHY 3.  If your life were turned into a film, who would play you? 4.  Can you speak with an English accent? Would you be brave enough to give it a try right now? Career & Professional Reflections 5.  If you hadn't dedicated your life to cognitive behavioral therapy and mental health or authored Feeling Good, what might you have done instead? 6. Is there a common misconception about you or your work that you'd like to clear up? Personal Insights & Philosophy 7.  If you could have dinner with three historical or modern figures, dead or alive, who would it be and why? 8.  If you could give your younger self just one piece of advice, what would it be? 9.  How did you meet Melanie, and what do you love most about her?

Vaping--Why and How I Quit. Featuring Dr. Kyle Jones Today we feature a beloved friend and esteemed colleague, Dr. Kyle Jones who will talk to us how he escaped from his vaping addiction. Kyle is a clinical psychologist in private practice, now residing in Los Angeles. However, he works virtually throughout California. He co-leads the OCD Consultation Group, a monthly consultation group for clinicians wanting to improve their competence in treating OCD. He also servs on the adjunct faculty at Palo Alto University where he teaches in the clinical psychology masters and PhD programs. He's recently joined the alumni council in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at the University of California, Santa Barbara. This is the fourth in our recent series on TEAM CBT for habits and addictions (431, Screen Addictions with Brandon Vance; 437, Porn Addiction with Thai An Truong; 438, Overcoming Habits & Addictions with Jill Leavitt). We want to remind you about an awesome virtual workshop on habits and addictions that Dr. Jill Levitt and I will be presenting on March 28th. We will feature powerful new paradoxical techniques that will blow your socks off. It will be from 8:30 to 4:30 and you will earn 7 CE credits while having fun and learning how to heal yourself AND you patients. Check it out! Registration and More Information Here! Today, Kyle gave a brief history of vaping, which entered the scene around 2010, and described the experience as pleasurable and addictive. An estimated 3 million teens are addicted, and the flavored versions are quite tasty, but banned in California. He described his first exposure to smoking when he was 19, and living in Paris. It was “the” thing to do at that time, but he eventually gave it up, but later began to take a hit or two of vaping at a party, and then purchased his own vaping device in 2023. “Shamefully, he says, I tried to hide it from my partner and from other people, and I would vape in the bathroom.” He vaped for most of 2024, but explains that eventually, it got out of hand. At New Year's 2025, he listed the advantages versus the disadvantages of vaping, and made the decision to give it up. This was difficult because of the withdrawal effects that lasted for several weeks, including intense cravings, fatigue, difficulty sleeping, irritability, anxiety, and the urge to overeat. The TEAM CBT technique that helped the most was HAL, the Habit and Addiction Log, and we demonstrated the Devil's Advocate Technique. Rhonda and David played the role of the Tempting Thoughts and Kyle bravely battle back. Here's the list of thoughts: 1. I'm driving, so I can just vape in the car. 2. Here's a chance for a nice break. I can vape right now! 3. I can take another hit, no problem! I'll just get a little feeling of pleasure. 4. I need It tastes sooo gooood! We translated the “I” statements into “you” statements to maximize the temptation, and were as seductive as possible. But no matter how hard we tried to tempt Kyle, he won “huge” and hit it out of the park. We discussed Relapse Prevention, and Kyle described being at a party on Friday where some people were vaping and sharing the vape. We also described and illustrated the powerful Triple Paradox, which works paradoxically. I have personally trained Kyle in TEAM CBT, along with many other fine TEAM teachers, and he was always brilliant, compassionate and extremely effective in his therapy work. He works with the full spectrum of mood and anxiety disorders, and has a bit of a specialty in the treatment of OCD. Thanks for listening today!