Podcasts about betrayal trauma recovery

If you've searched for “affordable relationship counseling near me,” it’s important to know these five things before you schedule an appointment. FIVE THINGS TO KNOW BEFORE SCHEDULING AFFORDABLE RELATIONSHIP COUNSELING NEAR ME 1. A RELATIONSHIP COUNSELOR PROBABLY WON’T TELL YOU THEY CAN’T HELP YOU Most relationship therapists genuinely want to help, and they believe they have the right training and tools to help you. If helping couples overcome issues is their business and livelihood, it's natural they don't want to turn people away. However, many relationship counselors don’t really understand how emotional abuse works and how to screen for it. No matter what they do to help you, it will not help, and that lack of clarity can keep you in harm’s way longer, which benefits the counselor and the abuser…not you. So it’s really important to learn about emotional abuse first. 2. A RELATIONSHIP COUNSELOR WON’T TAKE SIDES, EVEN IF ONLY ONE PERSON IS THE PROBLEM A core part of relationship counseling ethics is that the counselor is not supposed to take sides. And that makes sense. But if your husband is abusive then it’s unethical to treat this as a couple problem when it’s not.  Even if the therapist says, “This is emotional abuse and I can still help you.” That’s not a thing. Because if he’s lying, he’s going to use those couple sessions to continue to lie and manipulate. 3. TALK THERAPY WON’T HELP IF HE HAS A HISTORY OF LYING OR MANIPULATION If your husband is lying, deflecting, or rewriting reality then, therapy is just gonna be more of that. There’s no way to convince somebody not to lie and manipulate, and you won’t know they’re doing it. Stay to the end—I'll show you what the women in our community say they wish they’d known sooner. 4. MANY, MANY WOMEN HAVE BEEN HARMED BY “AFFORDABLE RELATIONSHIP COUNSELING NEAR ME” After more than a decade of doing this work and hearing from hundreds of women who started by searching “affordable relationship counseling near me” or were referred by a friend, a clear pattern shows up. Many, many women have been extremely harmed by couples therapists who did not know that they witnessed emotional abuse inside their offices. In some cases, what the women shared in sessions was later used against them at home or in court. 5. PROGRESS CAN BE MEASURED BY YOUR FEELINGS, NOT BY HIS CHANGED BEHAVIOR  Therapists rely on what they’re witnessing inside of that session. So if your husband says he’s improving, if he says he gets it, if he says he’s sorry, then the therapist is like, “Look, he’s sorry.” They can’t witness his behavior over time, like you do at home. So you know more about this than they do, and you can trust your instincts about it. To find out if your husband is using any one of the 19 different types of emotional abuse, take my free emotional abuse test. In this interview, Aliya shares what it looked like when the “expert” she trusted blurred lines in ways that felt increasingly difficult to make sense of. TRANSCRIPT: ONE WOMAN’S STORY OF UNETHICAL AFFORDABELE RELATIONSHIP COUNSELING NEAR ME Anne: We have a member of our community on today’s episode. We’re gonna call her Aliya. A so-called domestic abuse expert exploited her. Welcome, Aliya. Aliya: Thank you. Anne: Let’s start with how you met him. Aliya: I met him online through his network, taking classes and such. After I took a couple of classes with him, I started splitting time with him or co-counseling with him. Which was designed to help people discharge emotion. So if you have stuck trauma or PTSD experiences, you can get with a co-counselor and listen to each other, and hopefully discharge all that stuck trauma by crying, laughing, screaming or trembling. Anne: Were you paying for his services? Aliya: There was no payment. No, not at all. In fact, the attitude was, “I am doing you a favor. You’re the special chosen one. You get to help me. Everybody would love to be with me, but I chose you.” Anne: Oh, so he chose you to be his client? But you didn’t have to pay him and you were special, and so you also got to work for him. HE SAID, “I’M THE BEST CO-COUNSELOR HE HAS EVER HAD” Aliya: At first, I was co-counseling with him as though he were a counselor, but I was also taking turns as the “counselor”. Ultimately, I ended up moving to the state where he lives. There were supposed to be a lot of in-person events. Started helping him teach these classes and do administrative tasks and things like that, in addition to now co-counseling in person. And that’s where things got a little weird for me. Anne: So there’s a double relationship happening here where you’re working for him, but he’s also your counselor in this arrangement. Aliya: Exactly. Anne: In therapeutic circles, this is called a dual relationship. It’s unethical. It’s against the therapeutic ethics rules and is something people need to know before they search for affordable relationship counseling near me. But in his case, he’s not a therapist. This marriage therapy isn’t working. Can you talk about how like it first felt? Aliya: Sure, it felt great at first. Here’s this guy with all this knowledge and expertise, and he’s flattering me. He’s doing the love bombing thing, although we’re not in a romantic relationship. He is telling me how smart I am, and how inspiring it is to know me and all those kind of things. I’m just wonderful and can do no wrong. And I’m the best co-counselor he has ever had and all that. He would reach out and touch my hair and tell me how great my hair looks, and say, “Any excuse to come over and see you.” When he would come over to work on administrative stuff. So there were some double messages. “My life is so much better now that you’re in it,” things like that. HE STARTED CROSSING MORE ETHICAL BOUNDARIES Aliya: It felt very personal. He was constantly flattering me and complimenting me. A male friend had to point this out to me. “When was the last time I reached out and casually touched a man’s hair? Never.” And if I did that to him. He would’ve been offended, because now I crossed a boundary. But it was okay for him to do that to me. And then it got really hairy for me, because we started cuddling. We were on the couch together a lot and I was soaking up all this affection and warmth, and that worked on me emotionally. Anne: I am so, so sorry. He’s the expert, preying on vulnerable women. To hear that he’s cuddling people, that he’s doing pseudo professional coaching slash therapy. It sounds like a mess. I am so sorry. This is definitely affordable relationship counseling near me gone wrong. There were lots of signs of an abusive therapist in this situation. Aliya: When things took a turn, it was subtle at first. He used a few subtle put downs, and then not show up on time or cancel. Anne: Just for our listeners, so that they can hear what maybe a subtle put down might sound like, can you think of any examples? Aliya: The first one that came to mind, we served on a committee with one other person. She was on Zoom, and we were here in my house. and I said, “I’m getting milk to put in my tea.” I used Muscle Milk. He gave this disgusted look and went. “Well, is it even milk?” Just things like that. Why are you sitting over there instead of over here with us? I mean, things of no consequence whatsoever. But he felt the need to say something. I COULD FEEL THE SHIFT IN AFFORDABLE RELATIONSHIP COUNSELING NEAR ME Aliya: One time when I said something to him, he got very distracted and started looking at his phone and doing all kinds of things that typically abusive men would do. That he had never done before. So I could feel it shifting a little bit at that point. I was still co-counseling with him, and we co-counselled just about every single Friday. I helped him teach classes, helped him do his calendar and plan for the future, and maybe do a retreat. There was supposed to be a retreat, twice a year. I think there was one retreat in two years. So none of it was really panning out. There was not a single in-person event for two years. That was the administrative work. But during sessions, we would typically take 45 minutes each and take turns talking. And there’s a no advice rule, so you don’t give anybody any advice. But he would encourage me to get in touch with the pain, trauma and fear. And it could get pretty intense at times. I felt like he was getting bored with me. This affordable relationship counseling near me wasn’t feeling good. EVERYONE IN HIS ORGANIZATION IS VOLUNTEER Anne: How soon did you see that his actions and his words didn’t match? Aliya: He maintained his facade for maybe five or six months. And then it was, “Oh, I’m busy. Oh, I’m going to be late. Oh, I have to cancel, et cetera.” There was a time when the other person on this administrative committee with me, we were meeting every week supposedly. But he canceled at least half the time. And she said, “Why don’t we just meet once a month? Why don’t we schedule it differently?” And he got angry about that. He wanted us to be available every single Tuesday. In case he felt like showing up. Anne: So when he starts to be like, maybe you should get another co-counselor. So you would start paying this new co-counselor, or is everything in his organization volunteer and nobody pays anybody anything? Aliya: It’s all volunteer. It’s peer counseling. You’re doing it together. Everybody’s supposed to be equal. And no power hierarchy, although that’s a false premise. Because he’s somewhat of a well-known guru, and lots of women look up to him. He said he wanted a different co-counselor. Like he was done with me. He was gonna look for somebody else. But he didn’t actually address that properly. In fact, we did not stop co-counseling for at least another year after that. IT’S A LITTLE CULTISH Anne: It sounds very wishy washy. If someone isn’t paying for services, there’s no professional relationship in terms of the exchange of a fee is it like a church? What’s going on? Aliya: And it’s not well defined. That is the problem. I mean, you’re paying with your time, so you get 45 minutes. I get 45 minutes. If we have to cut it short on your turn, then I owe you the remainder of the time. Everything has to be equal in that regard. And nobody gets to dominate the conversation. Nobody gets one way time unless you agree to make it up later. It’s not well-defined. Anne: Which is hard because if you’re not paying them, how would you define that relationship? It kind of sounds a little bit commune-ish. Did it feel like that? Aliya: It’s a little cultish. And I think that’s his desire is to have a commune, really. Anne: Oh really? Aliya: Yeah. Anne: Living in a place where someone else made me dinner, but they didn’t necessarily live in my house. Doesn’t that sound good to everyone in some ways? WHEN AFFORDABLE RELATIONSHIP COUNSELING NEAR ME IS CENTERED ON THE “EXPERT” Anne: So because you were in administration, was it working for other people? I’m assuming most of the “co counselors” volunteering in this network were women co-counseling other women. Was he the only man? Aliya: There were two or three other men. One who was pretty consistent, because he was doing all the IT stuff for free also. And there was one other guy that just came and went. But yes, 99% of the participants are women. He is a harem builder. Anne: If you didn’t have him as your co-counselor and you had another woman. Was it working out for everybody else? Was this affordable relationship counseling near me benefitting others? Aliya: I did co-counsel with a woman for a while, and yeah, I think some people were benefiting from it, but at the same time have to understand, these are just lay people. It’s not necessarily safe for people. And so it’s a little iffy, And I think sometimes it just devolves. Anne: From your experience, what warnings would you have for people when they’re looking for a resource? Aliya: Pay attention to your gut, of course. There were moments along the way when I thought to myself, this is not gonna end well for me, because I noticed him treating other people poorly. HE’S ROLE PLAYING Aliya: I just blindly trusted this person. His written work was so impressive. It had helped me so much that I couldn’t believe he could be a perpetrator. Anne: Yeah, I’ve recommended books in the past. Then we heard back from women who went to that author for services. It surprised me because their services didn’t seem in line with what was on the page. And of course, it is hard for me because this is what I do. And I’m not perfect. So people could meet me and be like, oh my word, she was not as nice as I thought or something. Maybe ’cause I had a stomach ache. You never know. There’s that saying, “Never meet your heroes.” Because the written word is edited, it’s different than meeting someone in person. I guess what I’m asking is in meeting him, was it a feeling like he didn’t understand his own stuff? Does that make sense? Did it feel like there was a disconnect that he was play acting what he knew was the right answer? Aliya: That’s a good description actually: he’s role playing. So he can be very empathic and know all the right things to say. But there’s no depth to it. As long as it doesn’t require anything of him, he can be kind and supportive because he doesn’t have a dog in the fight. It’s only when there’s a conflict with him that his true colors come out. MAKE SURE BOUNDARIES ARE CLEARLY DEFINED Anne: Well, and if you’re in a commune, I’ll call it that. There’s gonna be some conflicts. If you don’t set it up as like, “Hey, I am a professional. You’ll be paying me for my services. This is how long our sessions will be.” That’s how it’s set up here at BTR. There’s no one with a dual relationship. Accredited coaching schools train our coaches. Plus divorce coaching certifications and all those certifications that our coaches have here. They are the best emotional support groups online. There’s some clearly defined boundaries. So if someone’s setting it up as a friendship or a relationship of equals, that’s a different situation. That means he’s not in charge. It means he can’t call the shots because of the way it’s set up. Even though it’s affordable relationship counseling near me. Aliya: Right, theoretically. Yes, we’re all supposed to be equals. Anne: I think this is a lesson for women in terms of their spouses. Is that you can go to couple therapy with your spouse. You can get them all the right information. They can regurgitate the right information back to you, supposedly understand all of the principles of abuse. They could understand the principles of healthy living. But then not actually believe it or use it. I think that’s surprising to people. AFFORDABLE RELATIONSHIP COUNSELING NEAR ME: HE’S DOING IT ON PURPOSE Anne: Like with my ex, he went to therapy for a long time. He could talk about addiction recovery, recite the 12 steps. He knew it very, very well. And really acted like he was in recovery. So the difference between knowing something and either believing it or using it or having it in Christian terms, sort of written upon your heart. Sometimes Christians use that terminology. I think it’s surprising to people that somebody can live in those two worlds. Especially, like a lot of Christians come to BTR for help, knowing that their husband reads the Bible, goes to church or purports to be a Christian. He knows everything, but he doesn’t do it. It’s shocking. Aliya: It is shocking to realize that he wrote that book, which is so well known and so helpful. I still say the book helped me tremendously, even though I now consider it more of an autobiography. Yeah, it’s a weird disconnect. That if you have a conflict with him, he starts demonstrating all the abusive tactics he wrote about. And I even think it’s a little more sinister than that. I think he knows what he’s doing, and he’s doing it on purpose because he enjoys it. So he gets women to come to him, surround him, help him with his work, engage with him, display all their emotional wounds to him, and then it’s fun for him to do the big discard. Yeah, very hurtful. WHEN THE “EXPERT” DOESN’T VALUE PEOPLE Aliya: I talked to five or six other women who have worked with him and not been paid. Or maybe gone out with him a couple of times and had it end badly. He doesn’t value people. People are interchangeable to him. It could be me one day and somebody else the next day. That’s what I didn’t understand. How can you sit and open your heart to somebody, and really to them, you’re still a nobody? He could just replace you. I noticed too late that in the process of co-counseling with him for two years, my mental health was declining. I was starting to feel more depressed. And I was wondering, is he gonna cancel this week or is he not? I was new in the area and he wouldn’t introduce me to anybody, because that was against his rules because he was absolutely adamant that we could not be friends. So I had to listen to him talk about his friends and activities around here, and though we have things in common, he would never introduce me to anybody. So I felt dependent on him, and he knew it and encouraged it. I was trying to run it for him. Me and another woman were trying to run it. He just had other things he would prefer to do. But most people in the organization were there to see him, because he’s the famous author with a head full of knowledge. So it died down quite a bit. And then we had a big fracture, he and I did. Because I started to feel suicidal. HE WASN’T THERE FOR ME WHEN I REALLY NEEDED HIM Aliya: He offered me a safe word to use in case I was really distraught. I could text him this word and he would know, and he would respond, and we could split some time together. Well, a few months went by and I used the word. He said he didn’t feel well and needed to cancel. That was for Friday. So I said, okay. He said, “We’ll do it Monday”. And I said, okay. Then on Saturday he changed the time for Monday. And then on Monday he told me he was feeling a lot better. So he would get back to me after he went and hung out with his friends. And he would let me know if he was available. And at that point I said, “No, thank you. I’m good. I don’t need to talk to you.” Anne: That’s very strange, that someone would not be like, okay, here’s the suicide hotline or something. Just putting you off rather than an actual suicide service. Or even say to them, “You know what? Suicide is not my area of expertise. I’m worried about you. I hope you can find the resources you need.” Even a frank, “This is outside of my scope of knowledge.” At BTR, because of confidentiality reasons, we don’t ever call any hotlines for anyone. But we would encourage someone to do it themselves. Like, you might be searching for affordable relationship counseling near me and need something outside of our scope. But to be like, I’m the end all, be all for everything. I’m so sorry, that’s wrong. AFFORDABLE RELATIONSHIP COUNSELING NEAR ME: I THINK IT WAS A SETUP Aliya: I think it was a setup in a way. It was his idea to have a safe word, and then he didn’t honor it. That caused a rift in the organization, because I was front and center in the organization. I answered his emails, helped him with his classes, and started groups for him. The one woman on the committee with me said, “Oh my gosh, wolf in sheep’s clothing. This is awful. I can’t believe it. I’m so sorry.” And the people started to think, well, where’s Aliya? What happened to her? Why isn’t she here? People wondered what happened. And I didn’t give a lot of details. I just said, “It’s not working for me. I’m moving on.” I thought it would be easy for him to generate a whole new group. And he has, they’ve started new classes. It sounds like they’ve had a retreat. The other woman on the committee with me called me and said, “Where are you?” Why aren’t you here?” And I was crying. I told her. She says to me, “Listen, I can’t fault him for something I didn’t witness.” I just said, “Do you really think he would behave that way if there were a witness?” And yeah, she didn’t respond to that. He’s so skilled at manipulating people. She’s a professional in some capacity who works with abused women too. It was horrifying. The betrayal in this affordable relationship counseling near me was amazing. So now she’s taken over most of my positions with him. The part that adds insult to injury is that he flipped the whole thing, blamed the whole thing on me. IT’S NOT MY FAULT HE’S NOT TRUSTWORTHY Aliya: I ended up feeling like it was my fault. Then I started to realize, wait a minute, this guy does not practice what he preaches at all. I just thought I could trust him. Like if you can trust anybody, it would be him, you know? And he knows that. Yeah, it’s not my fault that he is not trustworthy. He’s extremely good at his game. He’s so good. Anne: I’ve had other women who have been abused by therapists come on to talk about it. And the patterns are they’re not paying them or they’re not requesting pay. The sessions go longer than they’re supposed to. Physical contact, contact outside the session. It’s become like your social network. It kind of has a feeling of a church. ‘Cause it’s not like you’re paying and you’re all working together instead of professional services in this type of affordable relationship counseling near me. So those are some of the red flags. Aliya: Yeah, I agree. We did plenty of that, like emailing, texting, and things. So it wasn’t clean in any way. There were no well-defined parameters. I couldn’t tell, are we friends? Are we just working together? I’m working for him, but he is not paying me. We’re counseling together as peers, but I’m making myself vulnerable. He’s really not. That slowly dawned on me that he would stick to the same surfacey topics over and over again. HE’S A BAD ACTOR Aliya: Although he fancies himself an actor. If he wanted to cry, he got a photograph and sat down and looked at it and made himself cry. All just really weird stuff. Snuggling on the couch, even lying down on the couch a couple of times. Which was really strange for me, because I have a history of childhood sexual abuse, and it is bringing up a lot of stuff for me. But he takes it as, “Well, you know, it’s easier to cry it all out if you’re being held.” Very confusing, yeah. Like I know one woman who worked with him collaborated with him. So she asked him out, and he flew into a rage over it. When things go south like they did with me, he’s gonna say one of two things, either. Well, she just couldn’t accept that I wouldn’t socialize with her. He said that about me. Anne: This is someone who’s, sorry, I just have to interrupt and say, says someone who will snuggle with you on the couch. Aliya: Right. Yeah, and then the other thing that he always says is, “I’m a little concerned about her mental health.” So he said that about me too. He wasn’t really that concerned. Anne: He caused your mental health issues. Aliya: It was a huge betrayal. Like an arsonist, set a fire, and then run and hide in the bushes and sit and watch when the firetruck comes. ‘Cause he wrote the book, and then he gets everybody to trust him, and then he does what’s in the book. AFFORDABLE RELATIONSHIP COUNSELING NEAR ME: ABUSERS DO NOT LIKE STRUCTURE Aliya: Imagine the power he gets out of that, it’s sick. I use the word evil because I didn’t think of another word. It’s really sinister. Anne: The whole situation is sinister because of the lack of boundaries and the lack of structure. They do not like structure, because then they can’t do what they want, when they want it. So while it is affordable relationship counseling near me, there’s a huge emotional cost. And they have a hard time with divorce decrees, for example. And they have a hard time with things like what does the Bible says about divorce. They want her to follow rules to the T but they don’t mind just doing whatever they want. So having the structure of his organization be so wishy-washy and structureless, he gets to do whatever he wants in whatever way he wants. And if someone isn’t paying to have him be there at a certain time, he can cancel. Aliya: Yeah, and he still thought I would do administrative tasks for him after all this happened. Anne: I’m so sorry that this happened to you, and especially on top of your own story, which we haven’t talked about, that you went through abuse with your husband and then had this experience on top of it. When your husband is abusing you and you don’t recognize it, and finally you do, and you try to go for help. But it’s another thing when the people that are supposed to help you, it could be a therapist, clergy or abuse specialist, worsen things. You don’t know what is happening. THIS BETRAYAL WAS WORSE THAN MY HUSBAND’S Aliya: Yeah, they felt so different. Because with my ex-husband, as you said, I didn’t really notice or realize what was happening at first. And then when I did, I made a clean break from him. But this person was touting himself as a champion of women and a great support and totally understands what you’ve been through. And that betrayal felt worse to me, because he totally does understand. He’s written about what it does to women psychologically and emotionally, and how devastating it is. He knows full well what he is doing, and that to me is worse. Anne: Well, thank you for coming to talk about your experience with affordable relationship counseling near me. This is really important. I do wanna stress that unsafe resources can come from women, they can come from men. They can come from anyone. In the court system, for example, we have victims who are dealing with super abusive guardian ad litems who are women and men. That’s hard too, realizing that any resource could be unsafe. And then knowing what to look for so that you can find safe support. I think the other part is making sure that if you’re isolated and everyone who has been through abuse is isolated. That you are also creating friendships besides the professional support you’re relying on. So finding a quilting group, a church, or a hiking group, or some outside resource is really important as well. That can keep you grounded and help you heal. Cause I think abuse victims can heal in any way. And they find their voice after emotional abuse. SAFE CONNECTIONS MATTER Anne: But having a friend who cares about you, who you can talk to every day and go for a walk with and go to a movie, is really important. We should not underestimate real life connections with real people who are our friends and family over professional support, over affordable relationship counseling near me. And that’s the hard part. So many people don’t understand abuse. There are so many victims who can’t think of anybody in real life that they trust. I talk about this in the Living Free Workshop. If you have no one you can trust, coming to BTR. Going to our Betrayal Trauma Recovery group sessions, going to betrayal trauma individual sessions is great. I think it’s very important that things are defined clearly. That’s something here at BTR we take very seriously. So our group sessions have a hour and a half time limit, and our individual sessions have a 50 minute time limit. Women pay for services. We are all paid. That’s one reason why BTR does not recommend other resources. It’s not that an other resource couldn’t be amazing, it’s just that we don’t actually know what happens behind the scenes. And then also hopefully starting to make friends in your area somehow some way. I know that’s hard and overwhelming, but that’s gonna make a big difference. Being able to have people in real life who are your actual friends to support you. Did you find that after falling out with him, because a lot of your friends were part of the organization, that you were then isolated? Aliya: Yep, definitely. FINDING A SAFE AFFORDABLE RELATIONSHIP COUNSELING NEAR ME NETWORK Aliya: I lost friends in the organization for sure. But I have also made some friends here, so I’ve got a little network. I’ve only been here two years, so it takes awhile, but I feel like I’m making friends. One of my friends back home called it way before it came to a head, and she said, listen, if you wanna hang in there with him, I still love you. I’m not judging you, but you just need to know it’s not gonna end well for you. And she was right, and she still loves me. She’s not judging me, she’s still my friend. So I actually appreciate honesty like that. Anne: We stand with you, having been through it myself with my ex and other exploitative people who have exploited me, been dishonest in other areas of my life. It’s really shocking and hard to realize that there are people like this everywhere, and to know that manipulative people prey on vulnerable people. And so when you’re in this vulnerable state, which is natural for you to be in, learning some safety strategies to navigate that time is important. HOW TO MAKE STRATEGIC DECISIONS Aliya: That makes total sense. And most of the women that come to that network are just coming out of abusive relationships. So they’re vulnerable. Anne: Yeah, the Living Free Workshop, that I wrote, has that built into it. How to determine who’s safe and who isn’t safe. When is affordable relationship counseling near me safe? How to make decisions, so that the decisions you’re making, as you recognize this is abuse, can be strategic as you move forward. So if you’re listening and you’re like, “oh man, I’m worried about that,” then check out the Living Free Workshop. Aliya, thank you so much for sharing your story today. Aliya: Thank you.

Are you seeing things in your marriage or a relationship that feel a little intense or puzzling…and you’re not sure if they're normal or actually signs of a toxic relationship? If so, it's important to pause and look at the pieces of the puzzle together to see what they might be telling you. To discover if you're in a toxic relationship take our free emotional abuse test. Here are five things that might seem “normal,” but aren’t: SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP THAT ARE EASY TO MISS 1. HE WANTS TO MOVE THE RELATIONSHIP FORWARD QUICKLY When you’re in a relationship with someone who seemingly shares and cares about your values and interests, it’s easy to be swept up by the intensity of it all. Especially if the relationship seems to happen at the “right” time, and things move forward quickly. But this level of intensity and pace doesn’t give you time to slow down and really think about why you seem so compatible. 2. HE WANTS CONSTANT ACCESS TO YOU, BUT HE’S CLOSED OFF It might seem caring for your partner or husband to want to know where you are all of the time. But is it reciprocal or does it feel one-sided, like he needs constant visibility into your life, while parts of his remain just out of reach? Many women in these situations describe a quiet, hard-to-explain feeling that something isn't adding up. Like he's keeping close tabs on them… while also keeping options, information, or even other relationships carefully hidden. 3. HIS MOODS SHIFT SUDDENLY AND YOU DON’T KNOW WHY Think about it…in healthy relationships, partners are usually aware of the reasons why one partner isn’t in a good mood. They typically communicate about bad days at work or when they’re not feeling well. But in toxic relationships, that level of trust and communication often isn’t there, because one partner doesn’t want it to be. Everything's fine, until it's not, and then, it suddenly is again…And you're left trying to figure out what changed. 4. HE‘S UPSET OVER SMALL THINGS Things that don't seem like a big deal, suddenly are signs of a toxic relationship. For example, you miss a turn on the way to his best friend’s birthday party… and suddenly it's not about directions anymore. He's accusing you of being disrespectful, or doing it on purpose because you don’t want to go. Or you might simply ask him to help with the groceries, and suddenly he’s angry because, “you don’t respect his time and all the things he has to do.” 5. HE’S A DIFFERENT PERSON WHEN OTHERS ARE WATCHING Things feel tense, confusing, or even cold behind closed doors…but in public, he seems calm, kind, hardworking, and completely put together. For example, during counseling or around friends, he might appear thoughtful, patient, and willing to work on the relationship. He says the right things. He looks sincere. Other people may even be impressed by how hard he's trying. But when you're alone again, it's different. The warmth disappears. The tension returns. And you're left trying to reconcile the version of him everyone else sees…with the version you live with every day. If you relate and you need support, we’re always online to help you. Go to btr.org/group/ to see my daily support group schedule. TRANSCRIPT: EARLY SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR HUSBAND Anne:  I did an interview with a member of our community. We’re going to call her Iris, She talked about how his toxic patterns showed up in her marriage and what happened when she started using the strategies she learned in my workshop. Here’s that interview. Welcome, Iris.  Iris: Thank you. Glad to be here. Anne: Let’s start at the beginning of your story. Can you talk about how you felt when you first met your husband? Iris: He was very charming, and he seemed extremely sincere. Now I understand that he was love bombing me and was trying to make things go fast. It was very intense. And he preyed upon me at a time when I was really ready to get married and have kids. Everybody was getting married and having kids. So he went right for what was the most vulnerable part of me. And we met through a young adult single thing in our group. He proceeded to be very attentive. Anne: When you say young adult, single thing, that sounds a little bit like my faith. What’s your faith background? Iris: it’s the Catholic church. It’s actually Theology on Tap, which is at a brew pub, and you can buy a drink and mingle. And then they have a speaker. Anne: Kind of Matt Fraddish. Iris: Yes. Anne: I actually know Matt Fradd in real life. Iris: And I don’t go to the Catholic church anymore. But that was a huge part of our marriage and, we were really in a circle of pretty devout people. Which also I think contributed to my willingness to submit to him. Anne: When you say submit, can you talk about that a little bit more? EARLY CONTROL DISGUISED AS CARE AND SHARED VALUES Iris: Hindsight, there were red flags before we married. There were early signs of coercive control. It dates me, but cell phones weren’t the norm yet. And he bought me a cell phone so he could reach me more easily. He was pretty volatile. He asked me to marry him within a month or two and I deferred and we dated longer, but he was just intense. Then he would be very sorry. He would cold shoulder me at points. He’d be angry for things that were weird, wasn’t very flexible. Now I know these were signs of a toxic relationship. We went through nine months of marriage prep. So many Christian circles focus on the idea that the man is the head. I saw that in my parents' marriage too. My dad made all the decisions. My mom was independent in some ways, but she still did what he wanted. I think I expected marriage to look like that. The husband leads and the wife follows. Even though I was independent, had a master's degree, was over 30, and had traveled, I still lived in a huge Christian community where that model of marriage was everywhere. NOT RECOGNIZING SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP Anne: And you just mentioned nobody actually says that, but they actually do say that, it might not be in so many words. It might not be so directly, but they like actually say it. And if you call ’em out and say, “Hey, you said this.” They usually deny it. “Of course, I didn’t say that.” And you’re like, “What? You did.” That’s the part that’s really confusing. The therapists come in or the clergy comes in, or the friends and family, and they gaslight you too. It’s like, “You’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say that.” Especially when they find out what he is really like, and you’re like, “What?” “You told me this.” “Well, I never did.” And they for sure did. It’s almost like no matter what you do, you can’t win. There are friends of mine and maybe friends of yours too, who are amazing and they’re like, “Oh my word, I said the wrong thing.” That is so validating. I feel like when I meet people like that, it’s easy to be like, “It’s okay did the ‘wrong thing’ too. I was doing the best I could and I didn’t know that he was abusive. And I didn’t know what was happening, and didn’t recognize signs of a toxic relationship. So I can’t blame you either.” But, for the other people who continue to not believe us and deny that they said or did certain things. ‘That’s harder. Cause it becomes this almost group of unhealthy people that you’re dealing with, rather than just the one unhealthy person. Iris: Right. Signs of a Toxic Relationship: The Sudden Switch After Marriage Anne: Did you end up going to couple therapy? Iris: In the Catholic Church you do Pre-Cana, which is pre-marriage counseling, and they saw some things that were concerning. He was very intent that he could change things. They would categorize it like how we were different. I think she said to me, “Life might always be kind of hard for him.” ‘Cause that’s what she was seeing.. He works very hard, so he seems very sincere. And he met with the man in the couple we met with. And read books and was very sincere. They said to us, “Oh, we’ve never seen somebody work so hard to try to improve themselves so that they’re ready for a marriage.” He impressed them, and I remember feeling exhausted by that point. And it was a mask. I now know that these were signs of a toxic relationship. Anne: Like you shouldn’t have to work that hard. to be normal. They are hard workers, because it would be very hard to pretend all the time. Iris: Right, and that’s how he lives. He has a mask all the time. We had this huge Catholic wedding, like an hour and 20 minute long mass. And it was that night the switch flipped. And he was angry. He cold shouldered me. We’d waited till our wedding night, and he said things that were incredibly humiliating. Seeing THE SAME SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP IN OTHER WOMEN’S STORIES Iris: Then the next morning he would hardly talk to me. And we left the beautiful hotel. We were to go to a morning brunch at my parents, with guests who were from outta town and our families. And he was furious because people had decorated our car. And he had to stop at a car wash to rinse everything off before we even got to the wedding brunch. Anne: I used this story in my book. Iris: You did? Anne: Yes, this story. Someone else had the same story. Iris: Isn’t that amazing? Like how these Chucks do the same thing to us and have all the same signs of a toxic relationship. Anne: ‘ Like Twilight Zone. Cause you never gave me that story. Iris: isn’t that amazing? I feel like that in group a lot. I’m like, “Oh, that happened to me.” Anne: BTR has been like me trying to fit all the pieces together. And as I’ve tried to fit all the pieces together, things became very clear. And I’ve become very good at seeing in the dark. So this piece of the puzzle I was trying to get it to fit. Like why did he do that? I’ve never met you before, but I spent a lot of time piecing just this piece. With the other pieces that I had of other people’s stories to say, what was this about? I’ve spent so much time with this story in my brain and what it meant. I’m like, holy cow. Iris: Thank you. Thank you for somewhere to tell it, because it was something that felt so shameful for such a long time, rejected, and humiliated. RECOGNIZING THE PATTERNS OF EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE PARTNERS Iris: So we went to that wedding brunch, and I knew he was on edge the whole time. Other people didn’t necessarily see that. We got back to the house we were making our home together, which was his house. And he was angry, he didn’t want to go on our honeymoon, but I was like, I’ve been planning a wedding. All I have been thinking of is being able to go rest on a beach. So he agreed to go, and it was a really a horrible week. He was just fighting. His anger and unreasonableness, were more signs of a toxic relationship. It’s so hard, because he can make it feel like I’m also participating. We finally came home after the week, and at several points I thought maybe I should just fly home,’because it was awful. How would I even ask somebody to come and pick me up? What would I say? What would I do? Feeling so humiliated, like we had this big wedding, we’d done all this preparation, so we finally came home and I remember the first morning after we’d gotten home. He got up, he didn’t even talk to me. He grabbed his mountain bike, and he went mountain biking all day. That was a pattern that repeats throughout our marriage, where he just does his own, yeah. Anne: I had a mountain biking all day incident as well that I wrote about in my book. All of a sudden I’m like, what is happening? This is Twilight Zone, yes. Iris: No way. The Chucks, it’s the Chuck thing, which has been the most powerful thing to learn. WOMEN HAVE DIFFERENT RESPONSES Anne: Surreal that they’re all the same. I think that’s one of the powerful things about our group sessions is that the women are so different. We all react differently and we’re all doing the right thing. Because all of our personalities are different. So some of us want to protect ourselves by being quiet and sitting back and that’s the right thing for us. Some of us want to fight the guy, because that’s how our personality is. But they do all the same things. It doesn’t seem the same, because we haven’t acted the same. And I think the thing that like really helps it all come together is when you realize they’re so transactional. That they’re going to manipulate you in whatever way works for you, all signs of a toxic relationship. So if you’ve been trying to protect yourself in a certain way, they’ve been countering your protection methods in a certain way. And then when you change up the way you’re trying to protect yourself, they almost become like a different person. But they’ve been that same exact person the whole time. It’s just that they’re so transactional that they’re like, oh, that’s not working anymore. I have to do this other thing. And this whole new set of problems comes out so they can be super, super nice or super aggressive. But the whole time, it’s manipulation and lies. Did he ever go through a time where he seemed like he was really great? WHEN PREGNANCY AND BAD ADVICE KEEP YOU STUCK WITH SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP Iris: I got pregnant right away, so I probably would’ve left, but then I was pregnant and trying to navigate that. When I found out I was pregnant with my first baby, I went to therapy right away, and that therapist just didn’t have the skills to recognize an emotional cycle of abuse and really gaslit me. Then got pregnant again when my daughter was nine months old. So I had two babies, under 18 months old. That was another thing. In my faith, that I grew up with, you’re supposed to accept all babies. That was something that really kept me trapped. I knew once I was pregnant that I would always have to be linked to him. And that was incredibly devastating and terrifying. I think the Christian, and I’m going to say trope, I don’t want to make fun of anybody, but the trope of marriage that you just have to work hard enough and it will all be fine. That really was so damaging when signs of a toxic relationship are present. He did tell me early in our marriage that he had struggled with porn. He did the Every Man’s Battle stuff and everything like that. Also he confided in me that he’d used some at work. He has a security clearance and was about to be interviewed with a, polygraph. He was afraid they would ask him something like that. At the time, he was abusive our whole marriage, but it was the most intense. I didn’t even have the wherewithal to understand that. It was disturbing, it made me feel awful. But I didn’t have any brain space to process what to do with that. He downloaded it on me to get it off his chest. HE WAS Emotionally ABUSIVE ALL OF THE TIME Iris: After my second baby was born, he was probably seven months old, I tried to leave to go to a mom’s group. My ex-husband was angry with me because of my daughter, who’s my older one. I was working on potty training her. And I let her wear pants without underwear. She pooped and he was furious. He came up behind me in the bathroom and pushed me against the counter and said, “Next time, make sure she wears underwear.” So he was abusive all of the time, disrupted my sleep, and would wake me up in the night angry if I coughed. I had to sleep on 18 inches of the bed or less, without moving to not anger him. The reaction I had was to kick him to get him to back up. That’s when he grabbed me by the throat and started to strangle me. And I know now, but I felt terrible later. All I wanted to do was leave. I got my coat and I got in the car and I left. My children were still in the house with him. I just wanted to get away. I went to the mom’s group like everything was fine. But I was dissociated and in trauma. I had gone to my therapist then within a day or two and just poured everything out. And her response was, other women have it worse. And I was so humiliated, like feeling somehow I had caused this. Even though like I knew, I have education. I was in my thirties, I knew that wasn’t right. But the abuse had taken so much of my strength. That kept me so trapped for so long. It made it harder to open up. Therapists aren’t equipped to see signs of a toxic relationship Iris: And we went to so many marriage therapists, who just aren’t equipped. Because Chuck is charming, and they just don’t understand the dynamic except for one therapist who we did not go back to. They didn’t see the signs of a toxiC relationship. But she was crazy. So we went in, it was this dilapidated house. She was far back in the house. The door was open. We went in and sat down. Literally a dog with sores and the cone of shame came out, and she was like, I’ll be right there. Chuck was like, so wigged out. She came out and talked to us for a little while. She also had paranoid notes tacked up on her wall. Anyway, she talks to us for a little while, and Chuck is so wigged out, so Chuck is walking out. And before we leave she says, I want to give you something. And she hands me a page, and it has books on it. So I went home and ordered it, and then it came and I didn’t read it, like I couldn’t read it. I didn’t read it for the longest time, because it was just so painful. But that was the only therapist who saw the signs of a toxic relationship. And then I found out the next week she lost her license, in the newspaper. Anyway, she was the only one who saw the abuse and handed me a key. Anne: So she handed you a clue. When His “I Choose You” Doesn't Add Up Iris: A clue, and she was right. I had gone to other therapists over the years. I looked just crazy, because I would just cry. One therapist had different offices and I would always go to the wrong one. because I had no short term working memory available. Chuck disrupted my sleep. I’d be in the shower, he’d bring the baby in screaming and put them on the bath mat and I’d have to get out and take care of the baby. He’d drive angry, the list goes on and on. I just didn’t have the words to explain. We went to a mom’s group event where dads were invited. And he was angry at me the whole time, but only I knew that. And then I had to get in the car and drive home with him. So it was really intense. And then at about the seven year mark, he decided that marriage worked for him. It was such a delight, such a relief to have him gone for two weeks. He came home from a business trip. And he said, “I realized it’s been you the whole time. You’re really the one that I want to be married to.” Anne: Oh Iris: Right. Anne: Wait, he was having an affair. Iris: I don’t know. Anne: That sounds like something someone would say if they just broke up with someone. Because they’re like trying to choose between the person they’re having an affair with. In my book, I put the pieces together. FROM THE DAY WE GOT MARRIED, THERE WERE SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP Anne: After interviewing over 200 women and hearing their stories. I’m pretty good at knowing what happened. I think in this situation, he’s having an affair and she breaks up with him. He’s feeling bummed about it. He might say out loud to you, I decided I want to be with you. Iris: Mm hmm Anne: You don’t have the context of the affair, of him breaking up with her. So this really weird out of the blue statement, “I’ve decided I want to be married to you.” When he’s been married to you for seven years is odd. It also feels like a relief, “Oh, maybe he just didn’t want to be married to me before, and now he’s choosing me.” But you don’t realize what a weird out of place thing that is, because he makes you feel better in that moment. I don’t know if that rings true to you, but it seems that would be the order of events that would precipitate out of the blue, telling you, “Oh, I’m choosing you now.” Iris: Yeah, it didn’t make me feel better, because from the day we got married, he was horrible. it was awful. Anne: So you’re like, great. Now this awful person really wants to be married to me. Iris: It felt like a lie. Now that I understand how Chuck works, like there was something he wanted, he didn’t really love me. Somebody who really loved me and realized they were wrong would’ve not said that. I think they would’ve said, ” I’ve been horrible. I can see why you wouldn’t even want to be married to me, but I realized I really want to be married to you. They would’ve said something to try to heal that. Anne: Some effort to repair. Seeing the Patterns and Signs of a Toxic Relationship Anne: Instead it was more signs of a toxic relationship. Iris: I think so. And I think that’s why it felt awful. Because he manipulated me. Which I don’t think I could verbalize at that time, but he manipulated again. Anne: Were you about to leave at that time? Was there anything about you that was different? Iris: He knew that I was unhappy, but he was abusive all of the time, yeah. Anne: Did you ever find out about explicit media use? Iris: He told me, in hindsight, he’d invited a single woman that he’d never met to our wedding. Which was weird. It was a last minute thing, and I feel like she was probably a backup. Anne: You’ve said three stories now that sound exactly like other stories. I have heard this before. Your story includes all the classic, down to the detail. Iris: Wow Anne: Of inviting someone else to the wedding. Iris: The Chuckness of it. Anne: You got a winner. Iris: He’s a doozy. He told me later that he didn’t actually want to get married. Then when I look at inviting this woman to the wedding, he didn’t admit that for many years. But when he did, I was like, oh, so she must have been the escape hatch. If he didn’t go through with marrying me, he would’ve had someone in the wings. FEELING HELPLESS Iris: I suspect he continues to use porn. He is in cybersecurity, and he always had three computers in his office. So I wonder if one of those he used. I don’t know. I’ve always been curious about what that was. I don’t think I was as tuned into that until I was leaving the marriage. And then there wasn’t much that I had access to. There wasn’t anybody that seemed to have that language who I could talk to. I just felt really helpless, and he was very manipulative and very controlling, the love bombing, he is very good at. The other part was that I was super reactive at that point. So I felt very guilty about my responses to his behavior. Even though it was less intense and further apart. But the reality is that those first seven years, in the bedroom, total coercion, marital rape, and everything now that I have words for, had happened. By that point, like there was very little he had to do to make me comply, to try to stay out of his way. I would try to have a separate life, while maintaining that Christian marriage appearance. It took me a long time to see these as signs of a toxic relationship. Anne: We would probably call it like survival mode. You are trying to survive and that’s why a lot of people use the word survivor when they talk about abuse victims, because every day you’re just trying to survive. Why Getting Help Feels So Scary at First Iris: Yeah, daily. Navigate all of the things that are happening that just don’t make any sense. And I don’t have the words for. I think during the pandemic, I started to see your Instagrams. And it was like, oh, that’s what’s happening, those are the words. That’s what this is. And beginning to be able to label things and feel like I’m not alone. Then, wanting to join group, but then being afraid. What if it doesn’t help, I don’t want Chuck to know I’m joining? Just feeling do I really want to do that? because I felt like if I go through that door, I can’t go back. Anne: Can we talk about that for a minute? because a lot of women have told me that. I followed you on Instagram, or I listened to the podcast, and I didn’t start attending group sessions because I knew it would change everything. What is it about BTR that is different in that way? It’s different than maybe therapy or something. Is it because you’re going to finally get help to look at it. Seeing the signs of a toxic relationship can be scary at first. Iris: This can make me cry. I think, because no one had helped. So I think there was an element of, I could try this and probably it’s still not going to help. By that point, looking for help for so long and thinking, I don’t know that anything will help. then being so vulnerable and beaten down. I think there’s a sense of like, does anybody really want to help me? Do I deserve help? because it certainly seems like it’s my fault. So being very afraid to join a group. Like it’s terrifying the first day. BTR FELT LIKE AN ANSWER TO PRAYER Anne: Once you did attend a group session? Were you surprised at what happened? Iris: Yeah, the first day I joined, you hear that zoom beep and you are in group and feeling so afraid. But I was so welcome. it was like I could take a breath, even though really I was crying so hard. Hearing everybody talk, hearing the coaches talk, feeling like the words made sense. I didn’t share that first time, but just crying afterwards. Like there’s somewhere that gets this. There’s somewhere where there are other women who understand this. I’ve never met anybody who knows what’s happening to me. In my story, something that’s amazing was that when my daughter was a baby, there was this show on daytime TV called Starting Over House. It was a reality show for women to go to this house and start over. They had two coaches, and I remember watching these women go, and they had all different kinds of problems that they were trying to grow from or whatever. All I wanted was to take my baby and join that house. It was a reality show. I’m sure it would not have been really super helpful. But I just wanted to have people love on me and help me figure out my marriage. That’s all I wanted. So when I came to Betrayal Trauma Recovery group, I’m not kidding you, two of the coaches looked like those two coaches on that show. It just felt like it was a prayer answer. HIS ANGER WAS THERE ALL THE TIME Iris: So Sharon and Renee, two coaches loved on me and made me feel like I wasn’t crazy. And helped me to slowly unravel what had been happening and what had happened to me, and find my voice. I joined in the spring, I was already starting to take steps in my marriage to not engage with Chuck. By July, he was angry with me all of the time. Which I’ll come back to in just a minute. But , before I had joined, he had done some really angry driving in the car. He’d been angry one day when I had locked the door to the master bedroom, because I like to pray and meditate. And then I had gotten in the shower without unlocking it. Because I just want privacy from two kids, a dog and a Chuck. He banged on the door for as long as I was in the shower, and I could hardly hear him, but it scared the pants off of my kids. I felt like I didn’t know what to do. When I joined group, I finally started to have some strategies and observe him. Sometimes I forget all the things that happened. Right before I joined in February, he bought a new car and asked for money from his father. Then he came to me and said, “I didn’t spend all the money on the car. I saved some, so either you can go to marriage therapy with me.”, which he’d been threatening, and I didn’t want to go to marriage therapy with him because we’d been many, many times. GROUP HELPED ME SEE THE SIGNS OF A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP Iris: He said, “Either you go to marriage therapy with me, and I’ll buy a car for our daughter, or I’m going to divorce you. Not long after that, I ended up joining group. Then he said, “I used that money to file for divorce. I hired an attorney, and how do you want me to serve you your papers?” At that point, I had enough skill to say you can have me served, thank you. And it was super calm. And then I actually jumped in group and was able to just process. One of the things that was so amazing was that everything happening to me in real time, I could then go in a group, get support, be in my closet, my car, or at the library. The more I went towards health and boundaries, the angrier he got. So he actually continued to ask me for two months how I wanted my divorce papers. I can see how divorce and emotional abuse were intertwined, he was using the threat of divorce to try to control me. I would say, “You can have me served.” And he would say, I don’t want to pay $400. He did that until I got a paper in the mail and I thought that I was being served. I didn’t think I could be served in the mail, which you can’t in my state, but it was actually that they were going to kick it out of the system. I took that paper to an attorney, because I had been interviewing attorneys. That kicked off the divorce process. Because I was served. Anne: That whole time he is asking, “How do you want to be served? And you’re like, “Just serve me.” DEALING WITH CONTROL WHEN HE FILED FOR DIVORCE Anne: He's trying to get you to do something to stop the divorce. He threatens you—if you don't toe the line, I'll divorce you. When you’re like, okay, go ahead and divorce me, then he’s escalating. Using all the tricks and signs of a toxic relationship that worked before. He reminds me of my ex, who said that. Then he didn’t file. Because he thought that would instigate me repairing. Or me doing the thing I was supposed to do. And when I didn’t do it, I don’t think he wanted to file for divorce. It’s just that he couldn’t figure out how to control me anymore. He was like, well, I guess I have to make these things happen. And it sounds the same in this scenario, where he’s trying to get you to do something. Because a normal person, if they’re like, how do you want me to serve you? And you say, oh, just serve me. They’d be like, okay. And they would serve you. Iris: Right, it was control. I was so thankful I could go back in group and have the framework, putting my lab coat on, doing one step at a time. Getting shored up so that I wouldn’t be bowled over by his behavior. I finally hired an attorney, and my attorney notified his attorney. Chuck came to me and said, “Well, that’s not fair. You didn’t tell me you had an attorney. And now we both have to decide to dismiss the divorce. I can’t just decide myself.” Anne: Like not to get divorced? After he’s filed, he’s like, wait. Now that you’ve responded to me serving you with divorce papers, we actually have to get divorced. Iris: Right. Anne: That sounds like my Chuck too. INDIVIDUAL SESSIONS HELPED ME GET READY FOR EACH BIG BATTLE Iris: Really, it’s like they’re all going by the same playbook. I think realizing that these are all the signs of a toxic relationship was huge. And it allowed me to understand that my job was to be strategic. Chuck does a lot of stupid as a strategy. That attorney he hired in July, by the time our status conference was in October, he’d used all of his retainer. Which was $5,000, and nothing had happened yet. Because he is a Chuck and likes to call his attorney to talk. So then right after the status conference, he fired the attorney and then went pro se for a while. I was so thankful that I had BTR, that I could do group. I could do the Betrayal Trauma Recovery individual sessions to get ready for each big barrier or battle with him, so that I went in calm and focused. It really allowed me, in my divorce process to understand that this was the best thing for me. Even though he was trying to control me. It was finally the door out. And he kept coming back to me and asking, “Do you really want a divorce?” And I would say, “You could move out.” But he never would. One of the other things was that understanding that there was going to be so much out of my control and really focusing on what was in my control. In my coaching sessions with Renee and with Sharon, being able to determine what my top priorities were. My priorities weren’t numbers. My priorities were big picture. And then I said, these are the things that are most important and this is what I want to work towards. And it helped me. I feel like things worked out well for me. WE SETTLED AN HOUR BEFORE COURT Iris: So having enough money to restart and go back to school. Having stability for my kids, not selling the house immediately so that my daughter could finish high school. Like those were the big picture things. And because Chuck just wants to fight, it was the 11th hour literally. He hired an attorney again, just weeks before our divorce was final. But we ended up settling like an hour before court. I was able just to hang on, to understand it was going to be like that no matter what I did. Like I didn’t have any control over him, and I really got up that morning not knowing what was going to happen. And being at peace in that, and that I was doing all the things that I needed to do, and to let go of that so that I wasn’t in a battle with him. That was incredibly powerful. Hard but powerful. So it’s been final for two years. And the post separation abuse continues, and BTR’s been incredibly helpful in that. I was able to stay in our marital home for a year till our daughter graduated, and then last year that sold. So I moved out and things just lined up. In part because he was so disorganized. I think that worked out in my favor. And I’m now in school finishing a post Master’s certificate in school counseling. And I got hired last fall as a school counselor. So I’m working full-time as a school counselor while finishing my certificate. Just having somewhere to work out the technical stuff and then the emotional stuff, to understand how to be strategic. RESTARTING MY LIFE Iris: Because I could stay in that place rather than be in his blender. Which is what it was for 18 years. I have been able to restart my life and feel so grateful and fortunate. That I’ve had the support, and he continues to be abusive. And my daughter now is 19 and my son is 17. And so being able to talk about that and how he behaves helped me. I know that at some point, I won’t have to interact with him as much. Or at all once my kids are bigger. But because of the type of abuser he is, because of the types of things he did to me, I know that I am at greater risk of him being dangerous to me physically. And so being able to unpack that, but also, understanding that I have a right to safety and that I can take steps to do that and not feel bad about it. He’s much sneakier now. He’s incredibly angry with me and feels like the divorce was unfair. Because his goal is control, he can’t control me anymore, I think is one reason why he’s angry. It is palpable when I’m around him. He seethes at me. Other people may not be able to see it because he’ll mask it until there’s nobody around. But I think it has been invaluable to me to have a community where I can process that and then take steps to be safe from all the signs of a toxic relationship. When I finally blocked him, which was scary to do, because we have two kids. And that was easier to be able to text and call. It was just another vector for him to get to me. BLOCKING HIM FELT SO EMPOWERING Iris: So blocking him and doing email only. It felt so empowering to make that decision and be able to unpack that in group and also get the support of “Yay, you finally blocked him.” Like I’d been talking about it for so long. And trying to figure out the signs of a toxic relationship, There are the big steps to leave abuse and there are smaller ones too. Sometimes it’s the little ones that felt really hard. Especially because then my kids would know that I blocked him. Moving away from abuse is hard. I left the house today because I have somebody cleaning my house, which I started hiring somebody. So that I can do all that I’m doing. because I’ve been in school and working full-time and parenting two teens, and it feels so empowering. When they walked in today, I was thinking, because I was coming to talk to you and I was like, they’re helping me leave abuse. And I can say that to you. I think you know that. But he was abusive with cleaning. He would wake me. He likes things clean. He’d wake the kids cleaning and it’s very controlling. But to have a clean house and not be abused, it’s hard to express. This is my safe space, and I get to decide how it gets clean. I get to decide how to spend my money. I get to make choices now that I couldn’t make before. I’m just so incredibly grateful that BTR, I can make choices and know that I can. Thank you. LEARNING THE STRATEGIES IS INVALUABLE Anne: You are so brave and so strong. Look at you. You’ve got a good job. You have enough money to be able to hire someone to help clean your house, and the lack of guilt. Because some people have the money, but they’re like, I still can’t. I should be able to, no, like look at all the amazing things that you’ve accomplished. When it comes to divorce, if people ask me my situation, I say I am proudly divorced. I am so happy divorced. And I also say things like abuse doesn’t work out for a lot of people, but it worked out so well for me. Because everything that I have gained from learning about the signs of a toxic relationship and the strategies of protecting myself, has been invaluable. Like our confidence just grows day by day. That little voice in our heads and that little like charge that feels like I’m doing something wrong or I can’t do this or I can’t do that just starts to fade away. And life feels so free and wonderful. I’m so happy for you. It’s wonderful. Good job. Iris: Thank you, thank you for starting BTR and your podcasts were such a beacon for me too. Before I started group of these voices saying, “You’re not alone, you’re not crazy.” Listening to your voice, I still probably need to hear that a lot, because he makes me feel crazy. So thank you. Anne: Well, thank you, without women like you who listen and come and use our services, we wouldn’t be here. So thank you. Our services are incredible. Our team is incredible. It’s such a safe place. THE DIFFERENCE WITH BTR SERVICES Anne: I’ve been thinking a lot about the difference between BTR and the difference in our services is that it’s so real. You really have women you can see who know your story. You can talk to them every single day in person . And they’re never going to blame you or judge you. It’s never going to be that you made some kind of soul contract, like the weird stuff that you might hear from people who somehow try to blame you. I’m like, there’s no reason to ever say any of it had anything to do with you. because you were surviving the best you could the whole time, and you were going for help, and no one gave you the right information. And none of that has anything to do with you. They are helping you deal with the signs of a toxic relationship. That’s the crazy thing about abuse. You’re doing every single thing right and you still can’t get the right information. Despite you trying to get it for years. Some people don’t believe it, because they can’t imagine that would happen. But it happens every day with so many women all over the world. Anyway, thank you for your support of BTR. Iris: It is really such a privilege to be in this community. I felt, loved on and prayed for fiercely. BTR GIVES US THE STRATEGIES THAT WE NEED Iris: I remember when I first started. I thought they’re giving us the weapons that we need to fight the battle. Almost under the cover of darkness. They sort of come into our homes, our cars, our closets, and give us the weapons we need to fight the evil that is happening to all of us. Like all of a sudden realizing the support, but also the education that BTR does, is invaluable, to help us recognize and deal with the signs of a toxic relationship. I could get out of my reactive brain and really start to think, “Oh, this is what’s happening. Okay, this is what I can do. Chuck is doing this. This is what I’ve always done, but I don’t have to do that. I can do this.” It changed everything. Anne: Well, I am so glad, thank you so much, Iris, for taking the time to share your story with me today. Iris: Thank you.

Sometimes the worst part of betrayal is not what happened. It's what keeps happening inside you afterward. Betrayal trauma recovery is about understanding why betrayal trauma can leave you anxious, hypervigilant, angry, shut down, or unsure of yourself long after the original event is over. In this episode, we're revisiting a conversation about what happens when someone you love, trust, or depend on hurts you in a way that changes how safe the world feels. Whether the rupture came through infidelity, dishonesty, emotional abandonment, or another kind of relational betrayal, the aftermath can be disorienting in ways people do not always talk about clearly enough. We'll look at why betrayal can create trauma responses that feel a lot like PTSD, and why healing after betrayal often takes more than insight alone. We'll also explore what betrayal trauma recovery can look like in real life: naming the wound honestly, recognizing your trauma responses, understanding the difference between a real threat and an old trigger, and creating the kind of emotional safety that makes healing possible. If you've been trying to rebuild trust after betrayal, make sense of healing after infidelity, or learn how to trust yourself again, this episode offers a compassionate and grounded place to begin. Episode Breakdown: 00:00 Betrayal Trauma Recovery 04:09 Why Betrayal Can Feel Like Trauma 08:38 What Counts as Betrayal? 15:43 Self-Blame and Losing Trust in Yourself 23:14 Betrayal Trauma Symptoms: Fear, Hypervigilance, and Avoidance 35:02 How Betrayal Trauma Recovery Begins 46:53 Why Safety Has to Come Before Healing 52:08 Healing, Boundaries, and Learning to Trust Yourself Again If this episode gave language to something you've been carrying alone, I'd like to offer you a gentle next step. You can schedule a free consultation with me or someone on my team, and we'll help you find the right support for you. It's private, secure, and only takes a couple of minutes to answer three quick questions so we can match you with the right counselor or coach. Think of it as a thoughtful first step toward feeling more clear, more supported, and more like yourself again. xoxo, Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby Growing Self Upwork — and it's a sponsorship I said yes to because I actually use it. When you need specialized talent fast, Upwork gives you access to vetted professionals across 125+ categories, from marketing to web development to operations support. No long recruiting cycles. No guesswork. Just the right person, when you need them. Check it out at upwork.com — posting a job is free. Shopify — The all-in-one platform for building and growing your online business. Visit shopify.com/lhs to explore their tools and access exclusive listener discounts. OSEA - Amazing, clean, science-backed skincare made with the power of the sea. Use code LHS at oseamalibu.com for 10% off your first order

Adam works with a client who had been on the receiving end of a relationship betrayal and wanted the resources to finally cross the line and move on, rather than being attached to the betrayal and thinking of the people involved.

If you're struggling with betrayal trauma recovery, this video will change how you see Couples Therapy and healing forever.In this powerful session, Liana West (Betrayal Trauma Recovery Specialist) reveals a hidden reason why so many people stay stuck after infidelity. Most people focus on the betraying partner, trying to fix the relationship through couples counseling — but what if that's actually blocking your healing?You'll discover:- Why focusing on your couples therapy keeps you trapped- The hidden secret in NOT going to couples therapy after betrayal- Why you still feel triggered AF (even after time has passed)- What is actually keeping you stuck and preventing you from healing and moving forwardThis is real, honest relationship advice for anyone navigating emotional betrayal, infidelity, or trauma recovery.

How do you listen to a podcast without your husband knowing? Here’s a step-by-step guide for women who need truth, privacy, and peace. Have you ever thought, “I need help, but I don't want anyone to know I'm looking for it”? If so, this guide is for you. Maybe you've seen videos from Betrayal Trauma Recovery and want to dive deeper, but you're not sure how do you listen to a podcast, or how to do it privately—especially if your husband shares your devices, tracks your history, or even works with you. Don't worry. You're not alone. And you don't need to be tech-savvy to start. By the end of this article, you'll know: What is a podcast? How do you listen to a podcast safely and privately. How to subscribe to a podcast, including the Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast The best podcast apps for women in your situation When to listen to ensure you’re stay safe Why this podcast is different (and why it might change your life) Let's get started. What Is a Podcast? At its core, a podcast is like an on-demand radio show you can listen to any time, from anywhere—right on your phone, computer, or smart speaker. The Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast is a weekly show made for women who have just discovered her husband’s lies. Each episode is short (usually under 30 minutes), free to listen to, and 100% private. How to Listen to a Podcast (In 3 Simple Steps) You don't need a computer science degree or a secret burner phone. Here's how do you listen to a podcast without your husband knowing: Step 1: Choose a Podcast App If you have a smartphone, you're already halfway there. For iPhone users: Open the Apple Podcasts app (already installed on your phone) OR download Spotify for free from the App Store For Android users: Download Spotify from the Play Store OR download Youtube Music from the Play Store This app is discreet, free, and don't require you to sign in to start listening. Step 2: Search for the Podcast Open your app and search:“Betrayal Trauma Recovery”You'll see our podcast cover (usually with Anne Blythe's name on it). Tap it. Then tap “Follow” (or “Subscribe” depending on the app). Step 3: HOW DO YOU LISTEN TO A PODCAST: Stream or Download Episodes You can stream episodes instantly (if you have Wi-Fi or data)ORTap the download icon (a little arrow pointing down) to save an episode for later. Once you're done listening, you can delete it from the app. No trace. No history. 5 Ways HOW DO YOU Listen to a Podcast Without Your Husband Finding Out Here are a few extra privacy tips for those in sensitive situations: 1. Use Headphones or AirPods Even a single earbud can let you listen during chores, errands, or lunch breaks—without drawing attention. 2. Use Private Browsing Go to btr.org/podcast in an Incognito or Private browser window. That way, nothing gets saved to your search history. 3. HOW DO YOU LISTEN TO A PODCAST: Delete Your Listening History On most podcast apps, you can delete your playback or download history manually. (Quick Google search: “how to delete podcast history [app name]”) 4. Use a Hidden App Folder If you’re concerned about someone checking your apps, tuck Spotify or Apple Podcasts into a discreetly named folder—like “Utilities” or “Weather.” 5. Use Breaks Strategically Take a “walk to the mailbox” or a “cleaning the back room” break and press play. This is emotional self-care. Best Times to Listen To a POdcast (Even If You're Exhausted) You don't need an hour. Or even need total silence. You just need some laundry to fold. Try listening during: Morning routine (shower, makeup, coffee) School drop-off or pickup Folding laundry or doing dishes Grocery shopping (one earbud in your hoodie) Late at night when the house is finally quiet Even 10 minutes can calm your nervous system and help you feel seen. How to Leave a Review (So More Women Find Help) If Betrayal Trauma Recovery has helped you feel less alone, consider leaving a short review. It helps other women—maybe even one sitting in a salon storage closet on her break—find the support she desperately needs. Just open the app, go to the podcast's main page, scroll down, and tap “Write a Review.” The Podcast That Could Save Your Sanity If you're wondering what's really going on in your marriage… Or you've been blamed for your trauma… If you've spent hundreds (or thousands) on therapy that only made things worse… Or your wondering how to recover after infidelity… Start here:

Overcoming Partner Betrayal Trauma with Hypnotherapy: Leanne's StoryJoin host, Liana West, in this compelling episode as her client, Leanne shares her journey through partner betrayal trauma. Discover how Leanne met her husband, their near-perfect marriage, the painful moment of discovering his emotional affair, and the tumultuous aftermath. Leanne opens up about her emotional struggles, the challenges of finding effective therapy, and how she ultimately found hope and healing through Accelerated Hypnotherapy. This episode provides valuable insights into dealing with and overcoming betrayal trauma.00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome00:19 Leanne's Early Encounters and First Marriage01:45 Reconnecting with an Old Crush02:10 A Fairytale Marriage Begins03:25 Signs of Trouble07:40 The Discovery of Betrayal11:40 Immediate Aftermath and Emotional Turmoil16:39 Understanding Betrayal Trauma21:29 Struggles to Reconcile and Uncovering More22:57 Uncovering the Truth24:57 Failed Therapy Attempts31:51 Discovering Hypnotherapy33:54 The Healing Journey37:39 Rebuilding the Relationship40:51 Final Thoughts and AdviceLet's connect in a free Clarity sessionhttps://acceleratedhypnotherapy.com/freecall#acceleratedhypnotherapy #betrayaltraumarecovery #betrayaltrauma #betrayal #relationshiptrauma #bouncebackstronger #riseabovechallenges #learnfromsetbacks #traumahealing, #ptsdrelief#acceleratedoei #oeitherapy #acceleratedoei #oei #oeitherapyfortrauma

Grief is often misunderstood in the healing journey after betrayal—but it's absolutely essential. In this episode, Lisa  unpacks why grief plays such a central role in recovery from betrayal trauma. When infidelity or sexual addiction is exposed, the betrayed spouse isn't just grieving an event—she's grieving the loss of the marriage she thought she had, the loss of safety and security, the loss of identity as a cherished wife, and even the future she once envisioned. Lisa helps you understand that grief isn't a one-time step—it's a process. You'll learn why moving through denial, anger, bargaining, sadness, and eventual acceptance is not only normal but necessary for true healing. You'll also discover how couples in the Marriage Redesigned program learn to grieve together—the betrayed spouse grieving what was lost, and the unfaithful spouse grieving the false self and the destruction caused. Grief, when embraced, becomes the bridge between devastation and hope—the pathway God uses to move you from ashes to beauty. Tune in to learn how to let grief do its sacred work in your healing journey so restoration can begin. :: NEXT STEPS: MARRIAGE REDESIGNED PROGRAM  Schedule your MARRIAGE REDESIGNED FREE CONSULT  Join our Beauty Beyond Betrayal Sisterhood:   Healing from an affair: Heartbreak Recovery for Christian Women Grab your Free Ebook:   Broken Vows: Begin healing from the devastation of betrayal Email:   info@lisalimehouse.com WEBSITE:  www.lisalimehouse.com Got a question you want answered?  ASK HERE  

If you're the betrayed partner, you know what it's like to be hit with waves of emotion that feel impossible to control. One moment you're holding it together, and the next you're flooded with anger, grief, or fear. You may even wonder if you're too much—or if you're going crazy for reacting so strongly. And if you're the recovering partner, you know how unsettling it is to face these storms. You want predictability, calm, and a path forward, but instead you feel powerless and defensive. Both of you are left asking: Why does this keep happening, and what are we supposed to do with it? In this episode of From Crisis to Connection, Geoff and Jody pull apart this cycle so you can finally understand what's really happening underneath these reactions. They explore: Why betrayed partners' strong emotions are survival responses, not “overreactions” How shame fuels defensiveness and blame for the recovering partner Why this dynamic often gets mislabeled as a “marriage problem” instead of a betrayal issue The different responsibilities of each partner in recovery—and why they're not the same How couples can begin to work with these emotions instead of against them The key message: You're not crazy—you've been through something crazy. These strong emotions are a normal, human response to relational trauma. And when both partners can understand and lean into this truth, healing and connection can begin. ______________________________ Download the Free Resource: You, Me, Us - A Way Forward After Betrayal When betrayal has shaken your relationship, it can feel impossible to know where to begin. This free 15-minute video and companion worksheet will help you steady yourself, support your partner, and begin caring for the relationship between you. Get your copy here. ______________________________ Join the Courageous Together™ Program Courageous Together™ isn't just another course, it's a trauma-informed roadmap that holds both of you in the healing process. If you've ever wondered “Where do we even start?” After betrayal, this program gives you the clarity and structure you need. It meets the betrayed partner's need for safety while guiding the recovering partner toward real accountability, creating a path forward that neither of you has to figure out on your own. Healing from betrayal is overwhelming in isolation, which is why Courageous Together™ brings you expert guidance, practical tools, and a supportive community of couples walking the same road. Inside, you'll find a step-by-step framework, live support opportunities, and the reassurance that you're not alone as you rebuild safety, restore trust, and move toward genuine connection. You'll have access to: A structured healing framework with step-by-step guidance Video lessons and worksheets to build safety, accountability, and connection The option to join live group circles and support calls with me A private, secure community of others walking the same path Learn more and join us inside Courageous Together: www.geoffsteurer.com/courageous-together ______________________________ Stay Connected Website YouTube Instagram Facebook If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who might need it. And don't forget to leave a review! We'd love to hear how this podcast is supporting your healing journey. ______________________________ Watch on YouTube Prefer video? You can watch full episodes of From Crisis to Connection on our YouTube channel: youtube.com/@FromCrisistoConnectionPocast. ______________________________About Geoff Steurer I am a licensed marriage and family therapist and Certified Clinical Partner Specialist (CCPS) with 25+ years of experience helping individuals and couples heal from the devastation of sexual betrayal and broken trust. I am the founder of the Courageous Together program, co-host of the From Crisis to Connection podcast, and co-author of Love You, Hate the Porn. My work integrates trauma-informed care, attachment theory, and practical tools for creating lasting safety and connection. I've been married to my wife, Jody, since 1996 and we are the parents of four children. About Jody SteurerJody is the co-host of the From Crisis to Connection podcast, where she brings her thoughtful, common-sense perspective to conversations about healing, trust, and connection. She earned her bachelor's degree in psychology from Brigham Young University and is an ACA-certified coach. Jody has years of experience in corporate training, small business leadership, and family life, and raising four children (two of them neurodivergent). She loves watercolor painting, landscape design, spending time outdoors, and snow skiing.

If you're the betrayed partner, you know what it's like to be hit with waves of emotion that feel impossible to control. One moment you're holding it together, and the next you're flooded with anger, grief, or fear. You may even wonder if you're too much—or if you're going crazy for reacting so strongly.And if you're the recovering partner, you know how unsettling it is to face these storms. You want predictability, calm, and a path forward, but instead you feel powerless and defensive. Both of you are left asking: Why does this keep happening, and what are we supposed to do with it?In this episode of From Crisis to Connection, Geoff and Jody pull apart this cycle so you can finally understand what's really happening underneath these reactions. They explore:Why betrayed partners' strong emotions are survival responses, not “overreactions”How shame fuels defensiveness and blame for the recovering partnerWhy this dynamic often gets mislabeled as a “marriage problem” instead of a betrayal issueThe different responsibilities of each partner in recovery—and why they're not the sameHow couples can begin to work with these emotions instead of against themThe key message: You're not crazy—you've been through something crazy. These strong emotions are a normal, human response to relational trauma. And when both partners can understand and lean into this truth, healing and connection can begin.______________________________Download the Free Resource: You, Me, Us - A Way Forward After BetrayalWhen betrayal has shaken your relationship, it can feel impossible to know where to begin. This free 15-minute video and companion worksheet will help you steady yourself, support your partner, and begin caring for the relationship between you. Get your copy here.______________________________Join the Courageous Together™ ProgramCourageous Together™ isn't just another course, it's a trauma-informed roadmap that holds both of you in the healing process. You'll have access to:A structured healing framework with step-by-step guidanceVideo lessons and worksheets to build safety, accountability, and connectionThe option to join live group circles and support calls with meA private, secure community of others walking the same pathLearn more and join us inside Courageous Together: www.geoffsteurer.com/courageous-together______________________________Stay ConnectedWebsiteYouTubeInstagramFacebookIf this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who might need it. And don't forget to leave a review! We'd love to hear how this podcast is supporting your healing journey.Watch on YouTubePrefer video? You can watch full episodes of From Crisis to Connection on our YouTube channel: youtube.com/@FromCrisistoConnectionPocast.______________________________About Geoff Steurer: I am a licensed marriage and family therapist and Certified Clinical Partner Specialist (CCPS) with 25+ years of experience helping individuals and couples heal from the devastation of sexual betrayal and broken trust. I am the founder of the Courageous Together program, co-host of the From Crisis to Connection podcast, and co-author of Love You, Hate the Porn. My work integrates trauma-informed care, attachment theory, and practical tools for creating lasting safety and connection. I've been married to my wife, Jody, since 1996 and we are the parents of four children.About Jody Steurer: Jody is the co-host of the From Crisis to Connection podcast, where she brings her thoughtful, common-sense perspective to conversations about healing, trust, and connection. She earned her bachelor's degree in psychology from Brigham Young University and is an ACA-certified coach. Jody has years of experience in corporate training, small business leadership, and family life, and raising four children (two of them neurodivergent). She loves watercolor painting, landscape design, spending time outdoors, and snow skiing.

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Support HFW through a donation Listen now: Today, we continue our discussion with Natalie Hoffman. Natalie is the author of, “Is it Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman's Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual abuse,” and “All the Scary Little Gods.” She's also the host of the Flying Free Podcast. She is a passionate advocate for Christian women in abusive homes and churches. Through the Flying Free Sisterhood, she empowers Christian women to use their voices and gifts for their spiritual, emotional, and physical wellbeing. We Will be Discussing: Discussion around the roles within a system with emotional and spiritual abuse. If she chooses, how can she shift her role? Lyschel's wrestle and decision What does the path from emotional and spiritual abuse look like? Resources mentioned in this show: “Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman's Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse” “All The Scary Little Gods: A Memoir” Flying Free Sisterhood Community Episode 59: “So What, Lord?”

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Support HFW through a donation Today, we are talking with Dr. Christy Bauman about the female body, sexuality, and theology with the added layer of trauma. Christy is an author, teacher and psychotherapist. A mother of 4, fierce dreamer and passionate about advocating for women. Christy received her Bachelors degree in Communication at Texas A&M in 2002 and then her Masters in Counseling at Reformed Theological Seminary in 2007. She published the book Unearth in 2008, A Brave Lament in 2018, and Her Rites in 2024. She is certified in Medical Family Therapy and Trauma and Abuse. She earned her doctorate at Seattle Pacific University. Her dissertation topic was Shame and Sexuality in Women. We Will be Discussing: What would you want a betrayed woman to know about her identity as being a woman? Anger is misunderstood. Rootedness – Our Identity Resources mentioned in this show: Contact Dr. Christy Bauman Book: Her Rites: A Sacred Journey for the Mind, Body, and Soul

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Support HFW through a donation Today, we discuss the very important topic of relational safety with Matthew and Joanna Raabsmith. We Will be Discussing: Definition around relational safety A scenario to explain relational safety more in depth How to unpack an episode of disconnect/conflict Practical ideas to grow self-awareness Resources mentioned in this show: Building True Intimacy by Dan Drake, Joanna and Matthew Raabsmith Connect with Matthew and Joanna's Couples Work Here

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Support HFW through a donation Listen now: Today, we are talking with Stacey Smith, Chief Clinical Officer at Daring Ventures, about attachment and its role in healing.  Stacey is an EMDR Certified Therapist and a Trainer for The Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Trauma Specialists (APSATS) Multi-Dimensional Partner Trauma Model (MPTM). In this 4-Day training she teaches coaches and clinicians how to ethically treat partners of sex addicts who are suffering from betrayal trauma. She is also a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist (CSAT) Candidate as well as PACT level one trained.  Stacey also speaks to groups on topics like betrayal trauma, single womanhood, divorce and intimacy in marriage. Her first book, Understanding and Loving Your Child as a Single Parent, co-authored with Steve Arterburn, was published in 2022. She received her undergraduate degree from Texas State in 1988. Her graduate degree is from Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. She became an LPC in late 2010. She is recently married and lives in Galveston, Texas and spends her spare time fishing & enjoying the beach. We Will be Discussing: Does attachment styles affect all kinds of relationships? How do you see a woman working on her identity in Christ help her to move toward a healthy attachment style? How does our attachment style relate to our attachment to the Lord? How can I self-assess to find my attachment style? What's the goal when it comes to attachment? Resources mentioned in this show: Love Sculpture by Alexander Milov (Ukranian) Attached to God: A Practical Guide to Deeper Spiritual Experience by Krispin Mayfield Attachments: Why You Love, Feel, and Act the Way You Do by Dr. Tim Clinton and Dr. Gary Sibcy

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Support HFW through a donation Listen now: Today, we are talking with Crystal Botero-Rand and her work supporting partners whose husbands are attending Boulder Recovery, 14-Day healing intensive. Crystal lives in the Chicago suburbs with her husband Jon. She is a betrayal trauma coach, trained through the Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Trauma Specialists (APSATS). She group coaches the wives/partners of men undergoing intensives at Boulder Recovery, a Christ-Centered sex addiction treatment program. She also coaches women one on one in her private practice, Rooted and Established Coaching. Her passion for working with betrayed women began with her own healing journey and has grown as she has coached many women. She is honored to help her clients connect to their worth, make sense of their story, and set the healthy boundaries. She is deeply rooted in her Christian faith, and so are many of her clients, but not all. She helps them through crises of faith or breakdowns in their faith community, which are so common in this experience. Helping women understand their story and put one step in front of the other is her most worthwhile pursuit. We Will be Discussing: What is Boulder Recovery? What are the pros and cons of a husband doing an intensive? Does Boulder do any assess the betrayed partner? Do you prep her to understand to it might not have a positive outcome? What can a wife expect of herself while he is gone in the program and when he gets back? While he is gone is there any contact between husband and wife? What hope can we leave? Resources mentioned in this show: The Boulder Recovery 14-Day Christian Intensive TINSA: A Neurological Approach to the Treatment of Sex Addiction Partner's Healing 5-Day Intensive Scripture references: John 1:5

In this episode, Natalie interviews guest Anne Blythe, a leader in the Betrayal Trauma Recovery community. Together, they discuss the profound impact of sharing survivor stories, how lived experience can be just as valuable as formal expertise, and the damaging effects of sexual coercion in abusive relationships. Anne also sheds light on critical issues like manipulation, trauma, and reclaiming safety.Some Key Takeaways: Sexual Coercion and Abuse: Anne emphasizes how sexual coercion is often a hidden form of abuse within relationships. Many women face manipulation and pressure regarding sexual behaviors, which is often downplayed or ignored by their abusers, adding layers of trauma.Removing Shame from the Healing Process: Survivors often feel isolated or ashamed of their experiences, but through sharing their stories and seeking help, they can shed this burden.Prioritizing Safety Over Confrontation: Directly confronting an abuser often leads to further manipulation. Instead, focusing on safety and gathering support is a crucial first step in the healing process.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Listen to Anne's podcast, Betrayal Trauma Recovery, on your favorite podcast listening app. Read Anne's book, Trauma Mama Husband Drama.Check out Anne's Meditation, Living Free, and Message workshops.Connect with Anne on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. If you've found porn on your husband's phone, you can get a simple PDF HERE about what to do next.Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman's Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Anne is the Producer & Host of The BTR.ORG podcast and the author of Trauma Mama Husband Drama. She's also the creator of: The BTR.ORG Meditation, Living Free, and Message Workshops. After years of attempting to stop her husband's pornography use and “anger issues,” she turned her attention to establishing emotional and psychological safety for herself and her three children. As she learns in real-time, Anne shares her journey to help women safely and effectively separate themselves from their husbands' (or exes') emotional & psychological abuse and sexual coercion in order to establish peace in their homes. You can sign up to get group sessions with the coaches at BTR.ORG HERE.

Understanding and Embracing Anger in the Grief Cycle In this episode of 'Healing with Worth,' hosts Janine and Naomi explore the often-stigmatized emotion of anger, particularly in the context of betrayal trauma. They discuss the natural response of anger as a survival instinct, the societal expectations placed on women regarding anger, and the importance of acknowledging rather than suppressing it. The hosts provide insights and practical tips for managing anger in healthy ways, emphasizing the need to understand the underlying pain and fear. They also highlight the importance of setting boundaries and using various methods such as exercise, journaling, and talking to trusted individuals to process anger. The episode aims to help listeners navigate their emotions and promote healing without fear or shame. 00:00 Introduction to Healing with Worth 00:44 Understanding Anger in the Grief Cycle 01:18 The Physiology and Impact of Anger 02:47 Social Stigma and Acceptance of Anger 03:44 Healthy Ways to Manage and Express Anger 04:18 Recognizing and Addressing Underlying Pain 08:46 Practical Tips for Releasing Anger 09:54 The Importance of Boundaries and Self-Care 18:28 Expressing Anger Safely and Constructively 23:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

  With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Support HFW through a donation Listen now: Today, we are discussing and important piece of coupleship recovery, grieving together. We Will be Discussing: What place does grief have in trauma healing? What place does grief have in coupleship healing? What are some practical tips or suggestions to help couples understand mourning and grieving as a couple? Resources mentioned in this show: Episode 15: Full Therapeutic Disclosure Daring Ventures – Grieving Together Webinar  

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Support HFW through a donation Listen now: Welcome to another episode of Hope For Wives. Before we get started, we just want to make sure to say that we are not licensed therapists. We are ethically credentialled coaches. As coaches, we pick up on patterns. One of the patterns we see in recovering couples is that the person with problematic sexual behavior exhibit being avoidant of connecting with his wife. We Will be Discussing: What are some reasons the person with problematic behavior avoids? How does a woman experience living with a man who is in very early recovery and avoids intimacy. How does she stay sane when living with a man who does not want or does not have the skill set, yet, to connect with her in a way that is meaningful to her? 

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Support HFW through a donation Listen now: Today, we are continuing our discussion around how trauma negatively impacts our self-confidence, self-esteem, self-worth. We are going to explore ways to gain the confidence you lost after discovery and empower yourselves in truth. We Will be Discussing: What are some ways you personally found your way to empowerment? What are some other practical tools we can offer our listeners in order for them to grow in empowerment? What hope can we leave? Resources mentioned in this show: God's Love Letter Episode 59, “So What, Lord?” Pete and Geri Scazzero Books Susie Larson Books  Robert S. McGee Books  Brene Brown Books   Scripture references: Zephaniah 3:17 Jeremiah 17:14-18

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Support HFW through a donation Listen now: Today, we are discussing why and how a betrayed partner's self-esteem decreases after discovery. Self-esteem is your sense of overall personal worth or value. Similar to self-respect, it describes your level of confidence in your abilities and attributes.  One of the criteria for post traumatic stress in the DSM-5 is “Persistent and exaggerated negative beliefs or expectations about oneself, others, or the world.” So, it makes sense that a large percentage of betrayed wives experience this drastic drop in their confidence. We Will be Discussing: What are some experiences betrayed partners have with loss of self-esteem? How does this lack of self-esteem affect recovery from betrayal trauma? What hope can we leave? Resources mentioned in this show: Lauren Daigle – You Say God's Love Letter to You

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Support HFW through a donation Listen now: We are continuing our exploration of how to navigate when friends or family in this episode.  Today, we are sharing practical tools and tips when friends and family are unintentionally insensitive to complexities of pain involved in betrayal from sex addiction. We Will be Discussing: What can a betrayed wife put in place or think about before she interacts with friends and family to pro-actively care for herself if this kind of situation comes up? What are some other practical tips or tools we can share that have worked for you or your clients in navigating insensitive friends and family? What hope can we leave? Resources mentioned in this show: 3C Family and Friends Understand BT 2B PSB Family and Friends Understand PSBSA (1) P Affects Community Family and Friends Understand Clarity and Peace with Boundaries (Pam Blizzard Scripture references: Philippians 4:7-9

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Support HFW through a donation Today, Lyschel and Bonny continue the discussion, because Pam is away with other obligations, about Option C.  We talk about staying well through choice, change, the complexities, and Christ. We Will be Discussing: How do we stay well in Option C? What if she starts to feel hopeless? What hope can we leave? Resources mentioned in this show: “Do I Stay Well or Leave Well?” –  Blog Post “‘Staying Well,' Is it even possible?”  

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Help Us Help Others Listen now: Lyschel and Pam had other obligations, so I, Bonny will be speaking with a special guest today –  Dr. Barb Steffens! Barb is the retired founder of the association of partners of sex addicts trauma specialists, or APSATS. APSATS was a response to her empirically supported work that betrayed partners are traumatized by the discovery of their spouses problematic sexual behavior and should be supported through the lens of trauma, not co-dependence. Barb now focuses on helping better equip religious leaders to care for marriages that are struggling through the discovery of problematic sexual behavior. Today, our topic is “How Religious Leaders Can Serve Betrayed Couples Well.” We Will be Discussing: What is institutional trauma or institutional betrayal? What are some things that religious leaders could do to minimize spiritual trauma when they are working with a marriage that has deceptive sexuality? What are some obstacles that keep religious leaders from following up with a couple where the wife has newly discovered sexually problematic behavior? What are some resources that religious leaders could tap into to learn more? What hope can we leave our listeners? Resources mentioned in this show: “Your Sexually Addicted Spouse: How Partners Can Cope and Heal,” by Dr. Barb Steffens and Marsha Means. Why did God let this Happen? Assessing the Spiritual Impacts of Sexual Addiction on Intimate Female Partners: A Qualitative Investigation Betrayal Trauma Religious Leader Training Information (July, 2024, dates) “The Healing Church: What Churches Get Wrong about Pornography and How to Fix It,” By Sam Black. “Suffering and the Heart of God: How Trauma Destroys and Christ Restores,” by Dr. Diane Langberg. Coming November, 2024 – “When the Church Harms God's People: Becoming Faith Communities That Resist Abuse, Pursue Truth, and Care for the Wounded,” by Dr. Diane Langberg.

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Help Us Help Others Listen now: We are continuing to tenderly discussing sexual abuse in marriage and today we are moving into the intense end of the spectrum and will be talking about marital rape.   So, again, we invite you to check in with yourself. Are you in a grounded enough place to listen to this conversation? If you are not, please come back another time and listen. If you choose to stay, please take some grounding breaths and hold yourself in compassion and love, knowing Jesus is sitting with you right now. In our last episode we talked about your right to give consent to sexual engagement in marriage. Marriage does not nullify your right to say yes or no to having sex with your husband. It was only 31 years ago that marital rape became illegal in all 50 states. And today, in 2024, 9 states still have legal loopholes that allow rapist husbands to receive as little as probation as a punishment for this heinous crime. These states are Idaho, Nevada, California, Oklahoma, Mississippi, South Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, and Michigan (https://www.newsweek.com/spousal-rape-loophole-map-1892924 ) . I'm talking about the US because that is where we are based. Worldwide, 150 countries have criminalized marital rape and 48 countries it is not criminalized and 6 it is unclear. So, women around the world are still fighting against archaic laws that harken back to when women were considered property. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_laws_by_country ) We Will be Discussing: When does sexual coercion cross the line into marital rape? What would you say to the woman listening who has experienced marital rape? How does Jesus see women, especially those who are abused? What hope can we leave our listeners? Scripture references: Luke 1:38

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Help Us Help Others Listen now: The next two episodes we are tenderly discussing topics around sexual abuse in marriage. So, we invite you to assess whether you are in a grounded enough state to listen to this conversation. If you are not, please come back another time and listen. If you choose to stay, please take some grounding breaths and hold yourself in compassion and love, knowing Jesus is sitting with you right now.   It's hard to consider that sexual abuse can happen in marriage, and yet it does. It is one of the most confusing and distressing things a wife can process. It is a double betrayal.Sexual abuse is not uncommon in marriages where the spouse with problematic sexual behavior has not embraced the reality of their damaging behaviors. Sexual abuse can fall on a spectrum from objectification and light coercion on one end to marital rape on the other end.   Today, we are discussing consent and sexual coercion.   According to The Law Insider website, sexual coercion is defined as the use of unreasonable pressure in an effort to compel another individual to initiate or continue sexual activity against the individual's will. Sexual coercion wrongfully impairs the other individual's freedom of will (like using threats, making them pay afterwards with pouting behavior or abandonment for a time, drugs and alcohol to inhibit them from refusing) or impairs their ability to choose whether to engage in sexual activity (an example of this is having sex with someone who is asleep or is so sick or unhealthy and cannot stop what is happening, this to me, borderlines on rape, but that's for our next episode). We Will be Discussing: What is consent? What are some faulty messages women have received about her right to say no to sex in marriage? (faulty messages from church and culture) So thinking back to the faulty message, how have these faulty messages enabled sexual coercion in marriage? What is the truth for a woman who has been coerced? What grace can she give herself? What hope can we leave our listeners? Resources mentioned in this show: How Not to be an A** by Andrew J. Bauman The Sexually Healthy Man by Andrew J. Bauman Practicing Full Consent – blog post by Andrew J. Bauman Authentic Intimacy ministry with Dr. Juli Slattery Rethinking Sexuality by Dr. Juli Slattery Sexual Clarity for Christian Women – class led by Bonny Logsdon Burns (Strong Wives)   Scripture references: 1 Corinthians 7:4-5

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Help Us Help Others Listen now: We often work with women who experience a lack of understanding from their husbands on what it takes to heal from sexual betrayal trauma. So, today, we are discussing, “When the husband is frustrated with her slow healing process.”  We Will be Discussing: Let's revisit the definition and experience of betrayal trauma. What are the definitions and how betrayal trauma impacts a woman's functioning? How long, typically, does a woman take to heal from betrayal trauma? What is important for a husband to know when he experiences frustration due to her healing process? (Can address him trying to control her recovery here.) What hope can we leave our listeners? Resources mentioned in this show: Adding Attunement to Empathy (APSATS radio) What is EMDR to help memories fade? How Betrayal Trauma Manifests Itself with Dr. Kevin Skinner   Scripture references: 2 Timothy 1:6-7 Jeremiah 29:11-14

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Help Us Help Others Listen now: If you've been with us from the beginning, or have binged us up until this point, you'll know that we have purposely laid out content to follow a trajectory from first discovery, through safety and stability, grief and mourning, and at some point we will move through post-traumatic growth. The past episode and this one deal with coupleship recovery and lands in the space of when you feel safe enough, especially if your husband has jumped into recovery with a full commitment. We know that some husbands take a longer time to come out of denial to embrace recovery and some never get there. Today, Pam and I are talking about 3 more keys to coupleship recovery. We Will be Discussing: What is coupleship recovery? When can a couple start recovery? What importance does friendship have in recovery? What other couple resources are out there? What hope can we leave our listeners? Resources mentioned in this show: Learn Empathy: Help Your Betrayed Wife Heal by Marsha Means Help Her Heal by Carol J. Sheets and Allan J. Katz Help Them Heal by Carol J. Sheets Daring Ventures' Couples Centered Recovery 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work by the Gottmans (NOT betrayal focused, general audience) Podcast – Helping Couples Heal (secular, great content) Podcast – Human Intimacy Podcast with Dr. Kevin Skinner Podcast – From Crisis to Connection with Geoff & Jody Steurers Hold Me Tight: Seven Conversations for a Lifetime of Love by Dr. Sue Johnson Build True Intimacy by Matthew and Joanna Raabsmith and Dan Drake   Scripture references: Malachi 4:2 Proverbs 27:17

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Help Us Help Others Listen now: Pam and Bonny discuss 3 Keys to Coupleship Recovery – Safety/stability, Prioritizing the Relationship, and Radical Honesty. We Will be Discussing: What would you like couples to know about safety and stability? What does it mean to prioritize the relationship? What's the definition of Radical Honesty and how does it play out? What hope can we leave our listeners? Scripture references: 2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!"  

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Help Us Help Others Listen now: Today, Lyschel and Bonny discuss, "So What, Lord?" or Prove it, Lord. This isn't our typical episode. It's a conversation as Lyschel shares a devotional she recently connected with on a deeper level and wants to share with you. We Will be Discussing: What attribute of God has meaning for the emotions in our story. What does a praise party look like? What hope can we leave our listeners? Resources mentioned in this show Subscribe to The Father's Business for more devotionals like this. The I AM For Your Every Need Sooner or later, everyone will be beaten up, battered, bruised, and burned out by the dailies of life. Good news! God is the Lord of all of your life. List every need and emotion that you are feeling, no matter how small they seem. After you have acknowledged all your emotions and needs, go through the names of God until you find the expression of His character that meets each need. For every need, there is a corresponding attribute of God. Affirm that God is still God, no matter how you feel. Have a praise party, not a pity party, for your loving Father is a big God. He is able to do much more than you need or can think or ask. He is the I AM for our needs He is Abba Father when we need fathering. He is acceptance when we feel unwanted. He is adequacy for our inadequacy. He is all-sufficient in our hardest situations. He is the Amen, the true witness. He is the Answer for our uncertainty and questions. He is the Author of faith for our unbelief or doubt. He is the Bread of life for our spiritual hunger. He is broken and spilled out for us when we've been used. He is the Burden-bearer when we are heavy laden. He is before all things when we're surprised. He is cleansing for our defilement and shame. He is closer than a brother when we are lonely. He is our Comforter who wipes away tears in our griefs and sorrows. He is our Defender when we are under attack. He is our Deliverer from our bondage or captivity. He is our Door-opener when it looks like there's no way out. He is our sure Foundation, when we're insecure. He is our Faithful Friend when friends fail us. He is Fullness when we're empty. He is God of love when we feel unloved and need a hug. He is God who is there when we feel alone or abandoned. He is our Guide and the Way when we're confused and need direction. He is grace when we're too hard on ourselves or others. He is our Healer for woundedness, rejection, and sickness. He is Hope when we are discouraged and want to quit. He is Humility for our pride. He is Joy when we are depressed. He is our Keeper and Protector when we are vulnerable. He is the Lifter of our heads when we feel weighed down. He is long-suffering, slow to anger when we have blown it again. He is Mercy for criticism and unkindness. He is Mighty God, our strength for our weakness or temptation. He is Never-failing, always the same when we are fickle and faithless. He is Overcoming victory for defeat and depression. He is the Plumb Line to stand against the world's situational ethics. He is the Prince of peace when we are stressed, worried, and confused. He is the Provider for every financial need. He is the Quieter of the storm for afflictions without and struggles within. He is Reconciliation for breaches in relationships. He is Rest when we're tired. He is the Restorer of our souls when we're bruised and beaten down. He is the Reviver, living water when we are depleted and thirsty. He is Satisfaction when we've tried everything and come up empty. He is the Song, our praise when we're joyless and heavy of heart. He is the Spirit of the Lord when we need to be set free. He is our Strength when we're weak. He is Truth for the world's warped opinions. He is True Riches when we're tempted to covet the world's wealth. He is Vengeance when we are angry and wronged. He is Wisdom for our hard choices. This is only a beginning. Make your own list as a personal affirmation that God is your Need-meeter. He is the Most High God who reigns over all. To whom else would we go? He alone is the Word of eternal life. Taken from Prayer Portions, ©1991 and from For The Family ©1995 by Sylvia Gunter. Available at www.thefathersbusiness.com. An archive of past devotionals is available on the website.

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Listen now: Today, we are continuing our discussion around, “How to Make Time for Healing.” In the last episode, we walked through how she can care for herself through the first phase of healing, safety and stability. Our incredible guest, Casey Allison, is back with us today!   In our questions now, we will focus on the second stage of healing, remembering and mourning. We Will be Discussing: 1.What are some experiences busy women have when they enter into grief? 2. What are some practical tools we can offer women in this season? 3. What hope can we leave our listeners today? Resources mentioned in this show: Episode 20: Healing from the Impact of Sexual Betrayal Through Grief Come Awake with Coach Casey Allison Help Us Help Others

How do you start to heal from the hurt of a betrayal?   Betrayal is one of the most painful emotions you can experience as a person. Betrayal is not limited to just romantic relationships, it can be felt in all types of different relationships. Today, my good friend and colleague, Debi Silber, joins me to discuss the 5 stages of betrayal and how you can start to heal from the hurt.    You'll hear more about: The symptoms of betrayal trauma Why betrayal can trigger a trauma response Why trauma work is an integral part of healing  The coping mechanisms you might use to avoid the pain How to know if you're stuck — and the steps you can take to become the best version of yourself For more information and links for this episode, please visit our website: https://biologyoftrauma.com/biology-of-trauma-podcast/  

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Listen now: Today, we are discussing how to make time for healing, especially when you are a busy, maybe you're a mom with a full-time career, or a woman who runs her own small business, or a woman who has a passion for volunteering. We Will be Discussing: What are some experiences busy women have when first discovery rocks her world? What are some first steps for her to consider to move toward stability and safety? What hope can we leave our listeners today? Resources mentioned in this show: Come Awake with Casey Allison So Help Me God by Benjamin Hastings Scripture references: 1 Peter 5:7 Romans 5:3-5 Help Us Help Others

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Listen now: Today, Pam and I are finishing our conversation around “How Do I Know That I'm Healing.” (Lyschel still isn't with us, but she will be back soon!   We have a practical conversation, about things you can do to assess are you healing or stuck? We Will be Discussing: What can she practically do to help her move forward in her healing and recovery? What hope can we leave our listeners? Resources mentioned in this show: Writing to Heal by James Pennebaker, Ph.D Clearing Cognitive Distortions by Pam Blizzard 22 Examples of Cognitive Distortions and Worksheet from Positive Psychology Scripture references: 2 Corinthians 10:5 Help Us Help Others

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Listen now: Today, Pam and I are discussing, “How Do I Know I'm Healing?” (Lyschel isn't here because she is taking a very small sabbatical because her plate is very full at the moment. She will be back soon, promise! I know we will all miss her!)   Back to our topic, “How Do I Know I'm healing?” sometimes, in the worst of the pain or when we have a day full of triggers it can feel like we are going to be raw and seeping for the rest of our lives. We want to give you validate your experience and give perspective on how healing happens. We Will be Discussing: What can a woman experience that makes her feel stuck? What questions can she ask herself to assess if she is in fact stuck? What hope can we leave our listeners? Help Us Help Others

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Today we are continuing our discussion around, “When Your Husband Keeps Lying,” adding practical tools to care for yourself while navigating continued deception.   So, the scenario is, she keeps discovering his deception (and possibly it is not deception about his acting out behaviors, it can be deception about anything), whether it's through words or actions. We Will be Discussing: What are some things she should ask herself? What are some practical strategies to help her stay sane? What is some hope we can leave her? Resources mentioned in this show: For Hope Redefined's small group listing and retreat information go to: Hope Redefined For Strong Wives' Sexual Clarity Class go to: Sexual Clarity Class Help Us Help Others

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com   Today, we continue our discussion around how a wife can heal even when her husband is not in good emotional and behavioral health, yet. We will be focusing on practical tools and ideas you can use to care for yourself and move into personal growth in spite of her husband's lag in recovery. We Discuss: Why should a wife focus on herself in this season? What are some ways a wife can care for herself in this tough season? (Self-assess your safety, get into a support group for validation and education, do your own personal therapy work for childhood trauma, join a boundaries group if boundaries are hard for you) What hope can we leave our listeners? Resources Episode 8: Self Care with Practical Ideas Episode 33: Why are Cognitive Distortions Important to Understand when Healing from Betrayal Trauma? Episode 34: How Do We Navigate or Heal From Cognitive Distortions Pam's Clarity and Peace with Boundaries Group Lyschel's Hope Redefined Boundaries Group Help Us Help Others

Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Today, we are continuing the discussion around sexual experience for wives healing form betrayal. Sexual intimacy is a part of a healthy marriage. However, how can a wife want to engage sexually after infidelity or betrayal. We discuss: Let's talk about what a wife should ask herself before considering whether to engage sexually with her husband in recovery? What hope can we leave our listeners? Resources mentioned: Disclaimer: The following recommendation was written for the general population and general marriages. Pillow Talk: 40 Conversations about Sex for Married Couples The Couple's Guide to Intimacy: How Sexual Reintegration Therapy Can Help Your Relationship Heal Scripture references: 1 Corinthians 7:1-6 Help Us Help Others

LaDonna Carey is a Senior Psychological Examiner in Tennessee. LaDonna created a group for women who are healing from betrayal trauma called Gathering Our Hearts, has continuing education programs for therapists related to betrayal trauma, and is hosting a retreat for therapists in Hilton SC this October called Navigating the Storm: A Healers Role in Betrayal Trauma Recovery. Join us in a deep dive with LaDonna Carey as we explore the profound impact of betrayal trauma in therapy sessions. Discover how betrayal can shatter trust, disrupt attachment, and leave individuals grappling with profound loss and confusion. Gain insights into the urgent need for therapists to equip themselves with the knowledge and skills to address this often-overlooked form of trauma. Uncover the complexities of healing from betrayal trauma, from navigating the aftermath to rebuilding trust, and the crucial role of empathy, understanding attachment styles, and open dialogue in the process. Don't miss this eye-opening journey into the world of betrayal trauma and its significance in the therapy room. Resources Mentioned In This Episode: Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free The PsychCraft Network Launch Club (use code: PLCFALL2023) The Practice of Therapy Community LaDonna's Website Betrayal Recovery Center Email LaDonna: Contact@LaDonnaCarey.com Book Club LaDonna on Facebook Join LaDonna at the oceanside retreat in Hilton Head, SC, where you can 'Earn CEUs by the Sea!'

Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com We are so excited that, today, Dr. Jake Porter is joining our candid conversation. Jake is the founder of Daring Ventures and is both an APSATS certified clinical partner specialist and a CSAT (among other things). Our discussion with Jake, today, revolves around what recovery looks like. We all know that recovery is the goal for a marriage trying to heal from problematic sexual behavior. However, recovery is an elusive entity. I get asked all the time, “What does recovery look like? How will I know he's in recovery?” I asked those same questions and the answer I got, “You'll know it when you see it,” felt very unsatisfying. While Pam, Lyschel, and I have definite ideas about recovery, we decided to Jake in to enrich this conversation. We Will be Discussing: What do you define as recovery? (her recovery, his recovery – he may be doing internal stuff but he's not doing anything relationally – and the relationship's recovery)  What is “managing his recovery?” Is this good or bad?  How do I help my husband in his recovery? (Or Do I help my husband with his recovery?) Resources mentioned in this show: Free Couples-Centered Recovery Webinar, Scroll to the middle of the page and sign-in. Returning to You Intensive Retreat Weekend for Betrayed Partners through Daring Ventures. Help Us Help Others

Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Today, we are continuing our discussion around cognitive distortions. How do we navigate or overcome them as we grow and heal? There are over 13 common cognitive distortions that we navigate over and over in daily thoughts. CDs are important to understand because they can negatively affect our emotions and choices. They can keep us stuck and interfere with our ability to set boundaries, gain self awareness, and live in community. We are bringing this to our listeners today because we agree with M. Scott Peck when he said, “Mental health is dedication to reality at all costs.” As a reminder, we are not mental health professionals. We are professionals and leaders navigating the waters of betrayal trauma with you. Our knowledge comes from the countless hours of training and personal experience each of us have accumulated over the years. We Will be Discussing: What are some ways you can navigate around CDs or eliminate them? Can you ever change or heal CD? What hope can we leave for a betrayed partner feeling crazy from the wide array of thoughts and emotions that she cycles through? Resources mentioned in this show: “Who I Am In Christ,” scripture list compiled by Neil T. Anderson. Bible Verses Referenced:Philippians 4:8, "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—thin about such things." Ephesians 6:10-17, "Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." Learn more about changing cognitive distortions in this short online course by Pam Blizzard of Recovered Peace, "Clearing Cognitive Distortions: A Practical Guide to Clarity of Reality" Help Us Help Others

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Welcome to another episode of Hope For Wives. Today, we are discussing Cognitive Distortions. There are over 13 common cognitive distortions that we navigate over and over in daily thoughts. CDs are important to understand because they can negatively affect our emotions and choices. They can keep us stuck and interfere with our ability to set boundaries, gain self awareness, and live in community. We are bringing this to our listeners today because we agree with M. Scott Peck when he said,  “Mental health is dedication to reality at all costs.” As a reminder, we are not mental health professionals. We are professionals and leaders navigating the waters of betrayal trauma with you. Our knowledge comes from the countless hours of training and personal experience each of us have accumulated over the years. We Discuss: What are they? ANTs, Unwanted Neg Thoughts Why would it be important for me to learn about CB as a person who is healing from betrayal trauma? What have been some of your personal experiences with cognitive distortions? What HOPE can we leave our listeners? Resources mentioned in this show: Here is a short blog post on cognitive distortions from Psych Central. Take this short course, "Clearing Cognitive Distortions: A Practical Guide to Clarity of Reality" from Pam Blizzard at Recoverd Peace Scripture references: Philippians 4:8 Help Us Help Others

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Listen now: Welcome to another episode of Hope For Wives. Since we know that many spouses in recovery are listening to our podcast, today we are talking to you. We are continuing the discussion around, "How to share my recovery work with my spouse?" This is sometimes tricky to navigate as balance is needed between oversharing and possibly triggering her, and undersharing or just appearing to check boxes and not truly have your heart in it. We Will be Discussing: With special guest, Shawna Meek, of Living Stones Coaching. Shawna also contract coaches with Hope Redefined. What if she wants to know everything, including his thought life? (How do we coach the husband when she wants to know all of his thoughts without him doing more harm? What do we say to the post-disclosure client who wants to know all his thoughts?) What if he continues to cross the line because he is an over-sharer? What hope can we leave our listeners around this topic? Resources: Pam Blizzard's Betrayal Trauma and Recovery Basics Lyschel Burket's Hope Redefined Online Groups Bonny Burns' Strong Wives Sexual Clarity Class   Help Us Help Others

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Listen now: Welcome to another episode of Hope For Wives. Since we know that many spouses in recovery are listening to our podcast, today we are talking to you. We are discussing, “How to share my recovery work with my spouse?” This is sometimes tricky to navigate as balance is needed between oversharing and possibly triggering her, and undersharing or just appearing to check boxes and not truly have your heart in it. We Will be Discussing: From your story, how much information did you want to know about his recovery work? What does she really want to know? And, as always, we end with a word of hope for our listeners. Resources: Unwanted: How Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing by Jay Stringer The Journey Course: Freedom from Sexual Brokenness Help Us Help Others

With Your Co-Hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Listen now: Today we are continuing our discussion around the emotional roller coaster nearly all betrayed wives experience after discovering sexual betrayal in their marriage. We explore practical, real life ways to surf the wave of these intense feelings. As always, we share from our professional and personal experience. We Will be Discussing: What are some practical ways to navigate the intense roller coaster of emotions? Resources mentioned in this show: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Contact any of us through our websites listed above for information on where to find one-to-one support or a community of women healing from betrayal trauma. Help Us Help Others: If you have found our discussions helpful, please consider contributing to the cost of production and syndication. Thank you very much!  Click Here to Donate

With Your Co-Hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Listen now: Today we are discussing the emotional roller coaster nearly all betrayed wives experience after discovering sexual betrayal in their marriage. These intense emotions aren't due to triggers, which we've recently explored on some previous episode. What we are going to focus on today are the random waves of big emotions that seem to flood us out of nowhere. We Will be Discussing: Why are we on such an emotional roller coaster the first few months after discovery? What is your personal experience with the emotional roller coaster or the intensity of emotions that seem to appear out of nowhere? Resources mentioned in this show: Redeemed Hope Intensive Healing Retreat (sponsored by Hope Redefined) – More Info Here Contact any of us through our websites listed above for information on where to find a community of women healing from betrayal trauma. Help Us Help Others: If you have found our discussions helpful, please consider contributing to the cost of production and syndication. Thank you very much!  Click Here to Donate

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Today, we are finalizing our conversation around the more nuanced aspects of triggers. We Will be Discussing: What are the spectrum of triggers? What about when someone else in her world is triggered? Resources mentioned in this show: Intimate Deception by Dr. Sheri Keffer Hope For Wives Episode 11: What are triggers? How to navigate them? Scripture references: Psalm 16:1-11 Help Us Help Others: If you have found our discussions helpful, please consider contributing to the cost of production and syndication. Thank you very much!  Click Here to Donate

With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Today, we are further exploring triggers. We talked about triggers last season in episode 11. Our discussion now will include the sneaky aspect of triggers, more subtle effects. Triggers are annoying and tend to stick around longer than we want them, too. I often hear how my clients are exhausted from the triggers. We Will be Discussing: Will triggers ever end? What are your thoughts around Dr. Sheri Keffer's quote that says, “Under every trigger is an unhealed wound?” Resources mentioned in this show: Hope For Wives Episode 11: What are Triggers and How to Navigate Them? Intimate Deception by Dr. Sheri Keffer Help Us Help Others: If you have found our discussions helpful, please consider contributing to the cost of production and syndication. Thank you very much!  Click Here to Donate

  Welcome to Hope for Wives With your co-hostesses: Pam Blizzard from RecoveredPeace.com Lyschel Burket from HopeRedefined.org Bonny Burns from StrongWives.com Listen now: Today, we continue our discussion around denial (or betrayal blindness) and how to navigate the big emotions that surface when denial starts to dissipate. We Will be Discussing: What happens when she is starting to see reality and come after denial? What's the plan out of the darkness? What grace/hope can we offer our listeners around denial? And, as always, we end with a word of hope for our listeners. Scripture references: Psalm 18:28-30 Help Us Help Others: If you have found our discussions helpful, please consider contributing to the cost of production and syndication. Thank you very much!  Click Here to Donate

When someone we love, trust, and rely on betrays us, it creates a deep, painful wound that doesn't always heal on its own. Betrayal trauma, or “relationship trauma,” is real, and it can linger on for months or even years without the right care, just like other kinds of trauma.  Even though relationship trauma is very common, it isn't always recognized by our culture, or even by the people who are suffering from it. I hope this episode helps shift that for you. When you acknowledge the betrayal and how it impacted you, the door to healing and growth cracks open.  If you've experienced betrayal trauma, I hope listening to this episode helps you gain newfound compassion for what you've been through, as well as guidance and direction for how to heal and move forward. With love,  Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby growingself.com P.S. — For more help around repairing trust and healing after infidelity, check out my “Affair Recovery” collection of articles and podcasts.