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As Samuel Johnson famously said, “Hell is paved with good intentions.” And many of the previous attempts to commodify carbon, in forests for instance, excluded the very people who were impacted most and led to a number of unintended consequences. So, how can Nori create a market that quantifies carbon removal—without making those same mistakes? Dr. Lauren Gifford is a critical geographer exploring the intersections of global climate policy, conservation, markets and justice. She is also the host of Carbon Social Club and the author of a recent paper entitled “‘You Can’t Value What You Can’t Measure’: A Critical Look at Forest Carbon Accounting.” On this episode, we dig into avoided deforestation credits, REDD/REDD+, and the dynamics at play when carbon is commoditized in forestry and in general. Lauren describes the carbon colonialism charge that is often levied against early iterations of REDD, explaining why the Global North’s investment in saving high-density tropical rainforests failed, how the money was actually spent, and what unintended consequences emerged around these carbon offset projects. Listen in for Lauren’s insight on the danger in financializing a forest and learn how Nori is considering issues of equity and justice as we work to standardize an efficient way of quantifying carbon. Key Takeaways [2:34] Lauren’s work around the commodification of carbon 10 years looking at forest carbon assets Consider who’s included + excluded [4:59] The origin of carbon credits for forestry REDD introduced at UNFCCC 2007 Paid forest stewards not to cut down trees [7:18] What happened to the money invested to save the rainforest $4M invested in project in NC Peru $100K to $300K for people doing conservation work Rest spent on bureaucracies (make forest carbon legible in markets) [11:44] The driving question behind Lauren’s doctoral research What is a forest carbon offset? Means something different to every player along pipeline [13:42] Lauren’s insight on carbon colonialism Unintended consequences, justice implications of development Top-down environmental governance (how dominant community wants managed) [18:19] The danger in financializing forests Seen as financial entity, overlooks biodiversity/habitat Becomes dominant way of understanding space [23:42] Donating to soil carbon projects vs. creating complex markets Both good ways to remove carbon from atmosphere Nori looking to standardize efficient way to quantify [27:59] Lauren’s take on why we’d be better off without REDD+ Very colonial from beginning (Global North pay off ecological guilt) Tumultuous land tenure, can’t prevent deforestation in weak states [32:13] How the terms baseline and additionality are defined Baseline = business-as-usual scenario (defined by own parameters) Additionality = carbon sequestration beyond baseline [38:33] Nori’s intention to avoid the criticisms of previous carbon markets Relationship between environment + finance = hotly contested Carefully consider unintended consequences, who’s left out [41:54] How Nori thinks about the loss of small farms in the US Farmers empowered to get together in cooperatives Make easy to play part in market (but not ‘savior’) [44:16] What equity and justice mean to the Nori team Can’t serve intended communities without those core values Build equitable talent funnel for diversity of perspective Connect with Ross & Christophe Nori Nori on Facebook Nori on Twitter Nori on Medium Nori on YouTube Nori on GitHub Nori on Patreon Nori Newsletter Email podcast@nori.com Nori White Paper Subscribe on iTunes Carbon Removal Newsroom Resources Lauren’s Academic Website Carbon Social Club “‘You Can’t Value What You Can’t Measure’: A Critical Look at Forest Carbon Accounting” in Climatic Change United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change Jerome Whitington The Carbon Rush: The Truth Behind the Carbon Market Smokescreen by Amy Miller Patrick Bond What Money Can’t Buy: The Moral Limits of Markets by Michael J. Sandel Kelly Kay’s Research Works Wendell Berry ISO Guidelines on Greenhouse Gas Accounting & Verification Lisa Song’s REDD Feature in ProPublica Dr. Jane Zelikova on RCC S2 EP07
As any good developer can tell you, if you release a product you feel good about, you waited WAY TOO LONG to get said product on the market. Last summer, Nori’s product team was spending time onboarding farmers, building up auctions and a spot market, but they didn’t have a defined launch date. And they were trying to build out the Nori marketplace in its entirety—before customers had the opportunity to use it. So, what initiated the team’s pivot to an iterative process on an accelerated timeline? Michael Leggett is Nori’s Director of Product, Jacob Farny is the team’s Principal Product Designer, Jaycen Horton serves as the Principal Blockchain Architect, and Software Developer Richie “never writes code with bugs” Farman. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, the Nori product team joins Ross for a product update, walking us through what they’ve been working on and how their priorities have shifted since last summer. They describe how participating in Techstars inspired the decision to sell carbon removal for cash, driving them to think iteratively to get a product out much sooner. The team explains their greatest challenges leading up to the Lightning Sale and in the migration to the ongoing Live Sale, discussing why serialization and working on the blockchain make their job more difficult. Listen in to understand the Nori product team’s audacious goals for Q1 (and beyond) and learn how they are working to scale the sale of NRTs moving forward. Key Takeaways [3:10] What the product team was working on last summer Build up auctions and spot market (not clear on ONE thing) Siloed from other departments to divide and conquer [6:29] What inspired the product team’s pivot in priorities Leaning on SMEs for shortcut to feedback Decision to just sell carbon removal for cash Simplified process, allowed to launch sooner [10:35] How Techstars changed Nori’s direction Mashup of business development and product teams Think iteratively + do less to get product out sooner Single team urgently working toward coherent goal (Lightning Sale) [19:44] The product team’s struggles around the Lightning Sale Collect demand without ability to deliver product Minimum version working on blockchain (not instant) No control of decentralized system, refunds tricky Serialization on centralized and decentralized system Difficult to articulate what selling, define customers [32:46] How Nori differs from previous carbon markets Shop for project vs. get narrative after the fact Allows for microtransactions (e.g.: ride sharing) Facilitates scale for large companies [38:05] The migration from Nori’s Lightning Sale to Live Sale Execute at own pace with oversight to real time transactions Particular challenges around serialization and blockchain [44:01] The product team’s priorities for development in Q1 New approach to obtaining land management history Watch right people use software, make changes as needed [52:32] What the product team is looking forward to Audacious goals on rates of enrollment, verification Execute on learnings to grow healthy marketplace Connect with Ross Nori Nori on Facebook Nori on Twitter Nori on Medium Nori on YouTube Nori on GitHub Nori on Patreon Nori Newsletter Email podcast@nori.com Nori White Paper Subscribe on iTunes Carbon Removal Newsroom Resources Product Update on RCC EP070 Techstars Play Bigger: How Pirates, Dreamers, and Innovators Create and Dominate Markets by Al Ramadan, Dave Peterson, Christopher Lochhead and Kevin Maney Nori’s Carbon Removal Marketplace Microsoft’s Carbon Negative Plan COMET-Farm Granular Cropland Data Layer Climate Careers Trey Hill on RCC EP059
Nori is a Seattle-based company which utilises the power of blockchain technology to enable carbon removal through their marketplace. They focus on actual tonnes of CO2 being removed from the atmosphere (thus avoiding offsets) and use blockchain to ensure that each removed tonne is only counted once and thus is unique. This combination is an innovative approach to the problem of double counting carbon offsets.In its initial phase, Nori is focusing on enabling farmers to get paid for storing carbon in their soil. They use sustainable farming practices to remove carbon from the atmosphere, the removed carbon is verified and quantified by 3rd party attesters after which it's verifiably converted to a certificate which individuals & companies can buy to prove they paid for carbon removals.Paul Gambill is the CEO & Co-Founder of Nori. He established the first community dedicated to carbon removal called Carbon Removal Seattle. He has 6 years of experience in managing mobile and web application projects for clients including Nike, Showtime, Target, and Starbucks, and has shipped well over a dozen different apps to the public.I can also attest that he's extremely knowledgeable about climate change & blockchain and one of the best people I have encountered to explain complex concepts in simple to understand terms.NORI RELEVANT LINKSWebsite - https://nori.com/Nori Podcast Shows - https://nori.com/podcastsTwitter - https://twitter.com/noriYouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnNvzB1J0HZVyO-v6eIWjDA/featuredTIMECODES2:35 - Paul's background & his engineer-type approach to climate change9:36 - Carbon removal vs offsets - what is the difference?12:58 - The Jevons paradox & how it comes into play with offsets16:10 - Can carbon removal be achieved at scale?20:01 - Why Nori is focusing first on regenerative farming practices26:40 - How Nori ensures accuracy of carbon that is removed28:55 - How the carbon removal marketplaces works in practice31:05 - How Blockchain solves the double counting of carbon offsets37:03 - How Blockchain works & why it's crucial for Nori's solution39:23 - The Nori Carbon Removal Ton (NRT) - a non-fungible token40:50 - Does Blockchain need to evolve for Nori to be able to work?47:20 - The difference between Nori and other blockchain solutions tackling climate change48:20 - Market launch & trading of the token54:00 - Science vs Politics vs Businesses vs SocietyLINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODEIPCC Report - https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/Jevons Paradox - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradoxCOMET-Farm - http://cometfarm.nrel.colostate.edu/
“If you’re saying, ‘Let’s just stick with what we have until we can prove that anything new isn’t going to hurt us,’ then we’re stuck in this status quo that’s heading at 400 miles per hour toward six degrees of global warming—which I’m not willing to accept. There’s a real need for not blindly rushing into things, but we have to weigh that against the need to make some real changes.” Nathanael Johnson is a Senior Writer at Grist and the author of All Natural: A Skeptic’s Quest to Discover If the Natural Approach to Diet, Childbirth, Healing and the Environment Really Keeps Us Healthier and Happier and Unseen City: The Majesty of Pigeons, the Discreet Charm of Snails & Other Wonders of the Urban Wilderness. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Nathanael joins Ross and Christophe to discuss how his writing challenges the status quo, asking the questions that inspire real results. Nathanael describes the arguments for and against nuclear energy, explaining why it’s continued use may be necessary to mitigate climate change and what forces are affecting the industry’s collapse. He also addresses the controversy around GMOs, sharing why it’s difficult to define what qualifies as a GMO and how he thinks about the issue as a consumer—and a journalist. Listen in for Nathanael’s questions around soil organic carbon as a climate solution and learn how he cultivates the ability to see issues from multiple perspectives, staying open to cultural critiques of his views. Key Takeaways [1:00] How Nevada City shaped Nathanael Idea that we’re blind to ways progress hurts us Driven to ask questions that get real results [6:38] The little experiences that shook Nathanael’s beliefs Friend’s parents in logging (sustainable approach) Respect for efficiencies of industrial farms in ID [11:49] The impact of nuclear energy on climate change Top form of non-carbon energy in many countries Renewables go up and down, we control nuclear [15:24] The forces causing the collapse of nuclear energy Local opposition to land use, delays Regulatory apparatus + market forces No pipeline to support with expertise Complex tech with layers of safety [21:09] Why people are generally resistant to nuclear Not under our control No immediate benefit to individual Lack of transparency [26:09] The difficulty of defining what qualifies as a GMO Nuances of what’s changed with human influence Introduction of other genes happens in nature [30:07] Nathanael’s take on the precautionary principle Should question new things AND status quo Potential adverse impact vs. need for real change [33:04] How Nathanael thinks about GMOs as a consumer Ag would not look much different without GMOs Less glyphosate but more herbicides in general Less BT but more insecticides in general Only big companies can jump regulatory hurdles [38:32] Nathanael’s questions around carbon sequestration How long maintain gains? When will tail off? Wary of claims practice will solve ALL problems [41:52] How Nori navigates the internal tension of startups Leverage podcast to learn from experts Radical transparency and collective authorship [49:50] Nathanael’s best critics Washington Post columnist Tamar Haspel Farmer-scientists on Twitter Connect with Ross & Christophe Nori Nori on Facebook Nori on Twitter Nori on Medium Nori on YouTube Nori on GitHub Nori Newsletter Email hello@nori.com Nori White Paper Subscribe on iTunes Carbon Removal Newsroom Resources Nathanael’s Website Nathanael on Grist Nathanael on Twitter All Natural: A Skeptic’s Quest to Discover If the Natural Approach to Diet, Childbirth, Healing and the Environment Really Keeps Us Healthier and Happier by Nathanael Johnson Unseen City: The Majesty of Pigeons, the Discreet Charm of Snails & Other Wonders of the Urban Wilderness by Nathanael Johnson IPCC DOE Risk Insurance for Nuclear Facilities Professor Leah Stokes Green New Deal ‘It’s Practically Impossible to Define GMOs’ in Grist Moral Foundations Theory The UN’s Precautionary Approach to Environmental Challenges Jeremy Kaufman on Reversing Climate Change EP049 ‘Regenerative Agriculture: World-Saving Idea or Food Marketing Ploy?’ in Grist Dr. Emma Fuller on Reversing Climate Change EP079 Granular COMET-Farm Ted Nordhaus The Breakthrough Institute Tamar Haspel
You’ve got to crawl before you walk. The Nori team aims to have their carbon removal marketplace up and running this year, and to that end, they are currently running a pilot program with a handful of farmers and ranchers in the US. So, what does the process look like? What is their progress on the software product to date? What milestones has the team reached—and what are their next steps? Michael Leggett serves as the Director of Product, while Ryan Anderson joined the team as a consultant in January and is now the Supply Development Lead. Prior to Nori, Michael led design teams at Google and Facebook, and Ryan served as a Strategy Lead and Ecological Economist at the Delta Institute, a nonprofit dedicated to solving complex environmental challenges in the Midwest. Today, Michael and Ryan join Ross, Christophe, and Paul to share Nori’s progress to date. They walk us through the pilot program, discussing how the team is leveraging COMET-Farm modeling to measure the additionality of carbon stored. Michael describes Nori’s milestones in terms of software product development, and Ryan explores the value of a self-service portal for participating farmer-suppliers. Listen in for insight around the unique aspects of the Nori forward contract auction and learn how the team is incorporating feedback from suppliers, verifiers, and an expert peer-review committee as they work toward a 2019 launch of the marketplace! Resources Trey Hill on RCC EP059 Ryan Anderson on RCC EP058 COMET-Farm Granular Nori Market App Demo Invest in Nori Carbon Removal Newsroom Review RCC on iTunes Connect with Ross & Christophe Nori Nori on Facebook Nori on Twitter Nori on Medium Nori on YouTube Nori on GitHub Email hello@nori.com Nori White Paper Subscribe on iTunes Key Takeaways [2:17] The intent of the Nori pilot program Test product + methodology with US farmers, ranchers Incorporate participant feedback in real time Use COMET-Farm modeling to quantify carbon removal [8:58] How Nori thinks about additionality Measure carbon stored by NEW practices Relative to established dynamic baseline [11:38] Nori’s milestones in terms of its software product Minimal version for suppliers, verifiers and buyers Product available to farmers to enter data themselves Forward contract auction simulation (buy + sell CRCs) [18:29] The benefits of a self-service portal for suppliers Empower farmers to make business decisions Generate estimates of what stand to gain (simple + free) [24:34] How the forward contract auction works in Nori Parties agree on amount + price for future transaction De-risk acquisition and sale of commodity Nori combines with single-price Dutch auction Gives participants optionality [35:58] The role of the peer review committee in the pilot Critical for transparency, integrity + objectivity Weigh in on methodology (e.g.: additionality, permanence) [39:21] Michael’s insight on the verification process Work to create value by solving real problems Partner w/ traditional market verifiers to write guidelines
Sustainable energy is a wicked problem. As we solve one aspect of the challenge, others arise—and the very definition of the problem evolves over time. Yet admitting uncertainty is unpopular. No one is holding a picket sign that reads, “It depends on a number of factors that are mutually interdependent.” So, what should we be thinking about as we work toward a sustainable energy future? Jimmy Jia is an entrepreneur, author, educator, strategist and speaker at the intersection of sustainable energy and business. As the founder and CEO of Distributed Energy Management, he supports companies in right-sizing their energy consumption to reduce wasted utility spending. Jimmy also serves on the board of the Center for Sustainable Energy in San Diego and the Executive Committee of the CleanTech Alliance in Seattle. He teaches the Sustainable Energy Solutions Certificate at Presidio Graduate School, and Jimmy is the author of Driven by Demand: How Energy Gets Its Power. Today, Jimmy joins Ross, Christophe, and Paul to discuss the wicked problem of energy, offering his insight around energy transitions and the value proposition of sustainable energy. He explains the concepts of a microgrid and a smart grid, speaking to the nuances of those terms and the challenge of assigning a formal definition to either one. Jimmy also addresses what Nori might learn from the Renewable Energy Credit (REC) market and how Nori fits into the overall energy balance framework. Listen in for Jimmy’s advice to consumers regarding sustainable consumption and get his take on nuclear energy, the rise of cooperatives, and even the feasibility of the Dyson sphere! Resources Driven by Demand: How Energy Gets Its Powerby Jimmy Jia I, Pencil Wendell Berry Bill McKibben TerraPower Helion Energy Connect with Nori Nori Nori on Facebook Nori on Twitter Nori on Medium Nori on YouTube Nori on GitHub Email hello@nori.com Nori White Paper Subscribe on iTunes Key Takeaways [0:44] Jimmy’s energy journey Developed interest during MBA 10 years ago Link between materials science + energy market Explore physics of energy, business realm [4:56] How the laws of thermodynamics apply to business Value proposition = useful energy out Sustainable system requires discussion of demand [7:12] Jimmy’s insight around energy transitions Must define start point and end point Start with value prop + work backwards [12:48] How to frame the value prop of sustainable energy Define societal benefits want to achieve Find cheapest method (financially, in energy) Look at energy as demand-side issue [14:35] Jimmy’s advice for consumers Efficient solution usually best practice for sector Consume well to consume sustainably [15:49] Why energy qualifies as a ‘wicked problem’ Definition of problem evolves over time People find way to consume each new source [22:00] The concept of the microgrid Generic term for small power infrastructure ‘Self-sustaining’ but boundaries hard to define [25:06] The idea of the smart grid Internet-enabled data available More granular as evolves (i.e.: sensor in toaster) [27:55] What Nori can learn from the REC market Separates power production from fact that green No way for consumer to know if bought green electron [32:00] How Nori fits into the energy balance framework Play in ‘waste box’ (carbon, pollution space) [36:44] Jimmy’s take on nuclear energy Tech today very different from 30 years ago Some use rather than generate waste Different risks, benefits among types [39:48] The rise of energy cooperatives Community choice aggregation in California Adds retail layer separate from utility [41:46] The feasibility of the Dyson sphere Sensitivity to gravitational distribution makes unlikely Smaller units (swarm) viable but far away
About 65% of Washington voters support action on climate change. But after six years of working to pass legislation for a carbon tax, the state has yet to put a price on emissions. How do political divisions make the mission so challenging? What alternative solutions are advocates exploring? And how might the Nori marketplace fit into a broader policy framework? Kyle Murphy is the Executive Director of CarbonWA, a nonprofit committed to move Washington State toward zero carbon emissions. The organization is composed of students, activists, scientists, economists and concerned citizens who share the moral obligation to reduce carbon pollution and promote clean, renewable energy. CarbonWA is dedicated to passing equitable, evidence-based carbon-reduction policies, and Kyle has been leading the charge since 2015. A passionate advocate for change, he has a background in campaign management, fundraising, public speaking, communications and climate change policy. Today, Kyle joins Ross, Christophe, and Paul to discuss the ongoing effort to put a price on carbon in Washington State. He shares the competition of ideas around enacting a carbon tax, the challenge of dealing with diverse stakeholders, and the CarbonWA approach to the issue of accountability. Kyle addresses why I-732 and I-1631 may have failed despite public support of climate action and explains the appetite for alternative solutions like regulations or a citizen’s dividend. Listen in for Kyle’s insight on how climate policy differs from the legalization of marijuana or gay marriage and learn how emitters might employ Nori to earn credits within the context of a carbon tax bill. Resources CarbonWA Greg Rock on RCC EP036 Milton Friedman Washington Initiative 732 Washington Initiative 1631 ‘The Left vs. a Carbon Tax’ in Vox Todd Myers on RCC EP052 Aldyen Donnelly on RCC EP031 Energy Innovation and Carbon Dividend Act of 2018 Connect with Nori Nori Nori on Facebook Nori on Twitter Nori on Medium Nori on YouTube Nori on GitHub Email hello@nori.com Nori White Paper Subscribe on iTunes Key Takeaways [1:25] Kyle’s path to reversing climate change Snorkeling as kid, desire to save fish Career running climate policy campaigns [4:24] The efforts to put a price on carbon in WA Cap and trade system proposed in 2010 Revenue-neutral carbon tax on ballot in 2016 [6:30] The competition of ideas around a carbon tax Revenue neutral = same amount of taxes I-1631 used money for carbon-reducing projects [9:45] How carbon pricing differs from cap and trade Carbon pricing, tax or fee puts dollar amount on emissions Emitters buy, trade permits at auction in cap and trade [10:38] The challenges of dealing with different stakeholders Use of revenue (conservative vs. progressive interests) Lack of basic political give and take [15:00] Why I-1631 failed while despite public support of climate action General aversion to taxes Perceived lack of accountability, effectiveness [20:03] The potential for carbon regulations in Washington State Narrow approach to single facet of problem Proposals to ban HFCs, set low carbon fuel standard [23:28] How states might deal with carbon leakage Tax rebate for businesses likely to jump border Exempt if do something else to reduce emissions [25:24] Kyle’s take on a regional alliance to prevent carbon leakage Little enthusiasm around issue in Idaho, Wyoming Original vision for west coast alliance unsuccessful [27:48] How climate policy differs from gay marriage or marijuana Requires primary economic shift (change energy system) Similar in scope to issue of slavery [29:16] How fast climate change might ‘solve itself’ Electricity production within reach (perhaps by 2045) Still need breakthrough in transportation, industry [30:37] How CarbonWA handles the issue of accountability Access to power not same as power Remains independent of political party [33:22] The benefit to a citizen’s dividend policy Easy to sell to electorate, adds durability Easy to balance total revenue of program [36:18] How Nori might fit into the broader policy framework Carbon tax bills with clause re: carbon sequestration Payers could claim credit, wouldn’t have to pay tax [37:47] How Nori is considering issues of justice/fairness Think about how land used prior to farming Consider indigenous people who don’t own land
Nori has ambitious plans to reverse climate change by using the blockchain to enable the people who draw down CO2 from the atmosphere to get paid for doing so. And the team is in the process of building the infrastructure necessary to make that happen. But how do they go about talking farmers, for example, into using the platform? How do they convince companies to buy CRCs? How do they make the business case for carbon removal? Serial entrepreneur Gillian Muessig currently serves as General Partner at Sybilla Masters Fund, a division of Outlines Venture Group focused on funding diverse and inclusive founding teams. She is also the cohost of CEO Coach, a show designed to break down the art of business development. Gillian is best known as Founding President of Moz, the world’s leading provider of marketing applications and metrics reporting software. With more than 25 years of experience helping small businesses become global brands, she is a sought-after keynote speaker, board director and advisor to companies on four continents. One of the world’s most active entrepreneur-mentors, Gillian has helped more than 1,000 companies launch, grow, pivot and thrive. Today, Gillian joins Ross, Christophe, and Paul to advise the Nori team around making the business case for carbon removal. She shares her own entrepreneurial journey and the most important qualities of a successful entrepreneur. Gillian explains how the blockchain fits into Nori’s business model and offers her take on the startup’s garbage collector metaphor. Listen in for Gillian’s insight on the best way to approach farmers and potential CRC buyers and learn how Nori can scale faster if the founders are willing to ‘give away their Legos.’ Resources Sybilla Masters Fund MOZ CEO Coach Connect with Nori Nori Nori on Facebook Nori on Twitter Nori on Medium Nori on YouTube Email hello@nori.com Nori White Paper Subscribe on iTunes Key Takeaways [1:15] Gillian’s path to entrepreneurship ‘Grand Dame of internet marketing’ in early years of web Survived dot-com bust with revenue-share agreements White Hat SEO = deserve to be found in search results Enough right decisions to make company survive [11:07] The qualities of a successful entrepreneur ‘Invent the wheel, don’t reinvent the wheel’ Use available templates for what has been done [15:01] How the blockchain fits Nori’s business model Facilitates trust between two or more parties Harder to breach 1K people vs. single bank [17:34] How Nori’s approach to climate change is different Remove rather than avoid new emissions Create self-reinforcing feedback loop Restore carbon balance in this century [21:52] Gillian’s take on the garbage collector metaphor Help companies look beyond budget Consumers less likely to do business with litterers [24:37] The history of industrial pollution No consequences to polluting air, water and ground Regulations established around liners Government sues to clean up, collects $ from polluters [27:41] Gillian’s advice around approaching farmers Address financial hit of transition to regenerative ag Focus on how to monetize ‘doing the right thing’ Show data from farmers who have already done it [37:32] The value in persuading a buyer’s board of directors Legal and financial responsibility to company Board priorities carried out by C-suite leadership [42:08] Gillian’s advice for avoiding founder-itis Must eventually hire sales/business development Focus on WHO to approach and HOW to do so [45:32] Gillian’s favorite mistakes as an entrepreneur Challenge around ‘giving away Legos’ Knock on door one more time
We know that Nori is on a mission to reverse climate change by building a platform that pays people to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. But how exactly will the token economics of that platform work? Why is Nori creating its own cryptocurrency separate from its carbon removal certificates? And how can we get involved and invest in Nori? Today, Paul joins Ross and Christophe to explain Nori’s token economics and the general need for alternative currencies. They discuss how Nori tokens could serve as the reference price for carbon, why Nori tokens are separate from carbon removal certificates (CRCs), and how Nori tokens might drive innovation. Paul speaks to the challenge around creating a finite number of tokens and complying with SEC regulations. Listen in for insight on how Nori is leveraging the JOBS Act’s Regulation D exemption to sell tokens in accordance with securities law. Resources Nori’s Crowdfunding Campaign Nori White Paper Cryptoeconomics on Conversations with Tyler Rethinking Money: How New Currencies Turn Scarcity into Prosperityby Bernard Lietaer and Jacqui Dunne Klaus Lackner on RCC EP007 Klaus Lackner on RCC EP023 National Futures Association Financial Industry Regulatory Authority Paul’s Blog on Security Tokens SEC v. Howey Co. JOBS Act Rule 506 of Regulation D Key Takeaways [1:27] Nori’s latest initiatives Crowdfunding campaign Newest version of white paper [4:12] The fundamentals of token economics Number created to serve ecosystem How issued (mined or minted) Where demand comes from [5:20] The need for alternative currencies Helps small, localized communities create value Example: trash exchanged for bus tokens in Brazil [8:34] How Nori could serve as the reference price for carbon Idea for business model during ICO trend Provide capital for carbon removal projects Each token = one ton of CO2 Useful for policy makers, corporations & academics [11:39] Why Nori tokens are separate from CRCs Tokens act as commodity (liquid market) Insurance reserve in case of leakage, overestimation [15:47] How Nori tokens could drive innovation High scoring CRCs = more tokens immediately available New market incentives to reduce estimation error [18:24] The challenge around creating a finite number of tokens Too many means price too low to incentivize participation Too few creates problems in future if price too high Nori used modeling to decide on 500M tokens [21:32] The definition of a security Includes stocks, bonds and investment contracts SEC rules to limit possibility of risky investments [25:31] The parameters of an investment contract (i.e.: the Howey Test) Expectation of return based on third party Companies selling tokens qualify [26:44] How Nori is working to comply with SEC rules 506(c) of Reg Dexemption allows sale to accredited investors A+ exemption opens to non-accredited investors (up to $50M) Nori offers class A token for 7.5¢, class B token for 15¢ Meet with regulators to discuss implied dictum [33:14] The breakdown of Nori’s 500M tokens 100M on sale now 250M sold in batches over time 100M in insurance reserve 50M for Nori team [34:43] Why Nori needs the blockchain Provides immutable ledger Trace how CO2removed
When presented with solutions to a problem that conflict with our ideology, it is human nature to deny the existence of the problem. Thus, climate change solutions that involve regulation or ‘big government’ result in climate denial from right-leaning groups. How can we create solutions that provide conservatives with an economic win? How can we change the psyche of red districts by rewarding them for behavior that reverses climate change? Greg Rock is a board member with Carbon Washington, the state’s leading advocate for putting a price on carbon pollution. Greg has dedicated his career to addressing climate change, serving as the founding owner of The Green Car Company from 2004-2008 before heading to Sweden to pursue a master’s in Sustainable Energy Engineering. Since then, he has shifted his focus to policy, working as a volunteer lobbyist to promote carbon tax initiatives. Today, Greg joins Ross, Christophe and Paul to explain how the study of our ever-increasing demand for oil sparked his interest in reversing climate change. They discuss the idea behind I-732, the first carbon tax proposal that Greg championed, covering the reasons why it did not succeed and how Initiative 1631 is different. Greg offers his insight around what resonates with each side of the aisle when it comes to climate change initiatives and how a marketplace like Nori might combat the ‘solution aversion’ common in right-leaning areas. Listen in for Greg’s critique of Nori’s ‘one token to one ton’ formula and get his take on our obligation to act on climate change. Resources Carbon Washington I-732 Initiative 1631 The Sixth Extinction: An Unnatural History by Elizabeth Kolbert Key Takeaways [1:08] Greg’s interest in reversing climate change Study of ever-increasing demand for oil as undergrad Started Green Car Company (first Smart cars in US) Master’s in Sustainable Energy Engineering Worked on first carbon tax proposal I-732 [3:03] The idea behind I-732 Price on carbon = most efficient way to reduce emissions Use money to lower existing taxes (e.g.: income, sales, etc.) [4:46] Why I-732 didn’t work Ballot title read as tax increase Progressive groups wanted to use money to reduce emissions [5:48] The difference between I-732 and Initiative 1631 I-732 could have served as template for right-leaning states 1631 leans left, less likely to draw support from both sides [7:45] What messaging resonates with each side of the aisle Left on board with message, but may not prioritize Left responds when ‘bring home to their district’ Right supports when money spent in their district Right responds to economic efficiency, non-regulatory approach [9:50] How Nori might appeal to right-leaning districts Enhance economic development in rural areas Reward for sequestration may change psyche [12:13] The concept of solution aversion Solution conflicts with ideology, reject problem exists Climate solutions that turn into ‘winners’ change beliefs Nori’s voluntary market = good first step to action [15:52] Greg’s critique of Nori’s one ton to one token formula Carbon removal involves absorption AND storage Consider adding time function (i.e.: quantity x # of years) ‘One ton year’ more transferable to other practices [22:04] Greg’s take on our obligation to act on climate change People in other places will suffer most from emissions we create Duty to utilize tech, educational advantages to tackle problem
Aldyen Donnelly is the Director of Carbon Economic at Nori, a startup company dedicated to creating trust and transparency while lowering transaction costs throughout the carbon trading industry. Her mission is to reward carbon sequestering farmers with blockchain-backed carbon credit certificates. Nori is a blockchain-enabled platform allowing users to trace where carbon dioxide is sequestered and is currently the world’s only carbon dioxide sequestration marketplace. Aldyen joins me to share the mission behind Nori and how it can help both the environment and farmers. She shares how she became inspired to help the world reduce its carbon emissions, where carbon emissions are primarily derived, and the company’s business strategy to help reverse this problem. She also explains the role of blockchain with regards to transparency in their platform and how farmers can benefit from regenerative and carbon sequestering practices. “When we create a market that is transparent, a whole bunch of ideas about how to do this will come up that have never entered our mind yet.” - Aldyen Donnelly This Week on The Future of Agriculture Podcast: Where greenhouse gases are primarily stored. How soon can we reduce the greenhouse gases to 350 ppm? The theory behind Cap and Trade and why it’s not an optimal strategy to address the greenhouse gas emission issues. The true value of one carbon certificate. Why California is a special case when it comes to emissions certificates. How Nori works and how it utilizes blockchain. Who are the buyers of the carbon certificates? How regenerative practices allows farmers to generate marketable carbon credits, even during natural disasters. Causes of the downward pressure on the price of carbon certificates. How funding U.S. farmers to sequester carbon can offset transport and gas plant emissions. Aldyen Donnelly’s Key Takeaways: When most people are buying a certificate in the state of California market for $15, they think it’s costing $15 to reduce one ton of CO2, but if a certificate is really only worth 25% of a ton, they’re actually paying $60 a ton. Every cap and trade pollution market has crashed and burned within seven years. If we fund U.S. farmers to sequester carbon at top price, they can offset all of the U.S. transportation emissions and all of the gas plant emissions. Connect with Aldyen Donnelly: Nori Twitter Check Out Our Sponsor for the “Sustainability at Scale” Series Have you ever heard of Marrone’s BIO WITH BITE? Marrone Bio Innovation offers crop pest protection for the modern organic and conventional production systems. To make sure every grower using their products realize the best possible return on investment, Marrone invests time and resources to thoroughly test and demonstrate the efficacy of those new state of the art products. With serious trial data to back it up! You can see more and connect directly with Marrone by visiting them at www.marronebio.com Marrone is very proud to support The Future Of Agriculture blog series on sustainability in agriculture with Tim Hammerich. We Are a Part of a Bigger Family! The Future of Agriculture Podcast is now part of the Farm and Rural Ag Network. Listen to more ag-related podcasts by subscribing on iTunes or on the Farm and Rural Ag Network Website today. Share the Ag-Love! Thanks for joining us on the Future of Agriculture Podcast – your spot for valuable information, content, and interviews with industry leaders throughout the agricultural space! If you enjoyed this week’s episode, please subscribe on iTunes and leave your honest feedback. Don’t forget to share it with your friends on your favorite social media spots! Learn more about AgGrad by visiting: Future of Agriculture Website AgGrad Website AgGrad on Twitter AgGrad on Facebook AgGrad on LinkedIn AgGrad on Instagram
‘People do not move because they’ve been convinced intellectually. Unless you move the heart, the rest of you won’t move at all. All storytelling is about moving the heart, and when you’ve moved the heart, the brain will follow.’ If you want to sell voluntary measures to offset carbon emissions, tell a compelling story. Data is less persuasive than the narrative of a village lifted out of poverty. What else is facilitating the cultural shift toward doing the right thing? The market itself. As network-based systems begin to outperform hierarchical ones, companies are realizing the long-term benefit and profit-potential of carbon neutrality. Mark Stevenson is a self-proclaimed ‘reluctant futurist’ and author of the bestsellers An Optimist’s Tour of the Future and We Do Things Differently. One of the world’s most respected thinkers, Mark supports a diverse mix of clients including government agencies, NGOs, corporations and arts organizations in becoming future literate and adapting their cultures and strategy to face questions around climate change and gender inequality, among other issues. Today, Mark joins Ross, Christophe, and Paul to explain how he uses standup comedy to build literacy around important issues. He describes the benefit for companies that invest in reversing climate change, the climate solutions that have the potential to scale rapidly, and the opportunities in proper grazing and regenerative agriculture. They discuss the difference between climate change mitigation and adaption as well as Mark’s decision to calculate and offset his lifetime emissions. Listen in to understand the value of network-based systems like the blockchain and learn how to sell voluntary measures to offset carbon emissions—including the Nori platform! Resources Mark’s Website An Optimist’s Tour of the Futureby Mark Stevenson We Do Things Differently: The Outsiders Rebooting Our World by Mark Stevenson The Rational Optimist: How Prosperity Evolves by Matt Ridley UN Sustainable Development Goals The Square and the Tower: Networks and Power from the Freemasons to Facebookby Niall Ferguson World Bank CO2 Emissions Data UN Platform to Offset Emissions The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion by Jonathan Haidt Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations by David R. Montgomery Key Takeaways [0:48] How Mark became a ‘reluctant futurist’ Mission to build literacy around climate change, gender equality, human genome, etc. Standup comedy to learn communication, ‘talk to everybody’ Slowly morphed into futurist (research, consultancy, public-facing role) [6:11] Mark’s experience at an underwater cabinet meeting in the Maldives Low-lying island with emissions problem President brought attention with underwater meeting [9:00] Climate change mitigation vs. adaptation Mitigation deals with root cause (i.e.: stop emitting, pull excess CO2out of atmosphere) Adaptation implies dealing with impact of climate change (e.g.: build seawalls) [12:10] The benefit for companies that invest in reversing climate change Climate change is shareholder value risk Climate-competent board attracts best talent Consumers reward brands that align with values Cheaper in long run (reduced water waste, electricity) [15:00] The cultural shift toward doing the right thing Make more money in short-term as ‘bad guy’ but lose in long run Many companies don’t advertise carbon neutrality (e.g.: Microsoft) [19:19] Mark’s insight on climate solutions that can scale rapidly Renewables (solar, wind) continue to outperform growth predictions Liquid fuel taken from different source (renewed daily) [25:41] Mark’s take on the failure of government Not true democracy—must democratize health, wealth, education and opportunity All time low trust in large-scale institutions as only 10% work in system and profit from it [30:00] Mark’s decision to calculate and offset his lifetime emissions Opportunity to practice what preach, establish credibility Used World Bank data for average citizen, added travel plus 20% Paid via United Nations platform [34:20] How to sell voluntary measures to offset emissions Move heart, brain will follow Tell compelling story about truth (i.e.: lift village out of poverty) [40:28] The difference between hierarchies and network-based systems Past systems ran on hierarchies (e.g.: teacher in classroom) Networked systems have started to outperform (i.e.: solar energy) [42:03] How the blockchain functions as a network-based system Trust established via multiple auditing groups vs. single, centralized bank [45:53] How Nori will verify carbon removal activity Depends on methodology Practices verified by performance Start with traditional verification methods IoT likely to drive down cost of verification [48:58] The opportunities in proper grazing and regenerative agriculture 5B acres of badly managed grassland, half of carbon in atmosphere comes from soil Only 60 harvests left at current level of soil erosion, costs US $44B/year Regenerative agriculture can triple yield, put carbon back in soil and increase fertility over time
The construction industry will never reach carbon zero. And while we have made great strides in the way of operational emissions, we have only begun to think about reducing the embodied carbon emissions associated with the manufacturing, transport and construction of the necessary building materials. In most cases, it takes 250 years of operation to match the emissions related to the building process itself. So how do we reduce embodied carbon emissions as much as possible—and responsibly offset the rest? Stacy Smedley is the Director of Sustainability at Skanska USA. Skanska is one of the world’s leading project development and construction groups, working to provide innovative and sustainable building solutions and create a sustainable future for its people, customers and communities. Stacy has a degree in Architecture from the University of Washington, and she enjoyed a ten-year career in the field before joining Skanska. She is the architect behind the extension of the Bertschi School Science Wing, the world’s fourth Living Building. Stacy also serves on the advisory board for the Carbon Leadership Forum, and she is the Construction Chair of the Embodied Carbon Network. Today, Stacy joins Ross, Christophe and Paul to explain the concept of embodied carbon and Skanska’s efforts to reduce construction emissions. She celebrates the strides that have been made in the way of operational emissions and shares Skanska’s approach to leading progress in the area embodied emissions reductions. They discuss the challenges around life cycle analysis as well as Skanska’s latest innovations, from cross-laminated timber to carbon-sequestering concrete. Listen in for Stacy’s insight on Living Buildings and learn how Nori could support a company like Skanska in reaching its ambitious sustainability targets. Resources Skanska Carbon Leadership Forum Embodied Carbon Network Reversapalooza Key Takeaways [0:52] Stacy’s environmental origin story Grew up in Oregon (natural, outdoor playground) Grandfather sold land to developer Mission to build things good for environment Ten years as architect before joining Skanska [3:13] Skanska’s efforts to reduce construction emissions Building emissions account for 40% of total Skanska target of 0 emissions by 2050 ‘Reduce first, offset second’ [6:28] The concept of embodied carbon Associated with manufacturing, transport and construction of material in building Core and shell account for 80% of total building emissions Includes concrete, steel, glazing, aluminum and gypsum board [11:22] Embodied vs. operational emissions Design choices have taken EUI from hundreds to forties Just started thinking about embodied carbon [13:49] Skanska’s approach to sustainable construction Must lead to make change (first adopter) Work with likeminded clients Create open-source tool for competitors [16:00] The challenges around life-cycle analysis Normalize data from different sources (not transparent) Agree on one standard [19:24] Skanska’s innovation around wood buildings Involves cross-laminated timber from forests produced quickly Costs will go down as efficiency, availability grows Must trace transparency back to source [23:06] Other opportunities in sustainable construction Carbon-sequestering concrete [25:41] The two categories of innovation at Skanska Inside-the-fence (onsite efforts including vehicles, equipment) Outside-the-fence (provide info, push to invest in reductions of Source 3 embodied carbon) [28:00] The idea behind a Living Building Produces more energy than consumes (net positive) Treat water onsite without connection to pipe Becoming cost-competitive until solar panel tariffs [34:13] How Nori can help Skanska reach its goals Transparent way to negate emissions (internal goal) Provide clients with ‘story to tell’
‘If you are a hard-core environmentalist, be a hard-core industrialist. Figure out technology that can outcompete the things that are making the environment bad, and then you can move at scale.’ Mark Herrema is the Co-Founder and CEO of Newlight Technologies, an advanced biotechnology company using carbon capture to produce high-performance polymers that replace oil-based materials. Newlight was founded on the idea that carbon could be used as a resource, and today it operates the world’s first commercial-scale greenhouse gas-to-AirCarbon manufacturing facilities, producing bioplastics used in furniture, electronics, packaging and a range of other products. Newlight has been named Innovation of the Year by Popular Science, 2015 Technology Pioneer by the World Economic Forum, and 2014 Company of the Year by CleanTech OC. Today, Mark joins Ross and Christophe to share the inspiration behind Newlight Technologies and how it rose to the challenge of competing with traditional plastics in terms of price and performance. Mark discusses Newlight’s role in transforming the plastics industry and his long-term vision of a licensing model that inspires growth in the areas of bioplastic products and production. They discuss how emerging carbon capture techniques could benefit Newlight and how Nori might change the terms of the climate change debate by monetizing carbon removal. Listen in for Mark’s insight on altruism, incentives and how businesses like Newlight should think about subsidies. Key Takeaways [0:58] Mark’s inspiration for Newlight Technologies Reading about calculation of methane emissions made climate change real Good for environment, economy to use carbon as resource [4:23] Mark’s take on altruism vs. incentives Must harness market forces to move at necessary speed, scale [5:31] Newlight Technologies’ founding challenge Develop materials that compete on price, performance [6:59] Newlight’s role in transforming the plastics industry Replace plastics with bioplastics (biodegradable, don’t require fossil fuels) Reach point where oil/gas chooses to build air carbon plant for profitability [11:24] Newlight’s sources of methane and CO2 Farm digesters, landfills and flares Power, ethanol plants [15:54] Newlight’s cradle-to-grave carbon accounting Ran two third-party LCAs to verify reduction of carbon footprint Must use renewable power to make CO2 capture carbon neutral [19:40] The benefits of polymers used by Newlight Repeating unit structure produced in all living things Natural molecule biocompatible with human body (healthier) [22:11] Mark’s big vision for Newlight Technologies Licensing model to replace plastics with bioplastics Build reference plants to demonstrate possibilities Inspire imagination with products like cell phone cases [25:01] How carbon capture techniques would benefit Newlight Run process from anywhere on globe Scale up in short time frame [32:09] Nori’s role in creating a carbon offset market Simplify process, open-source on blockchain Carbon removal credits create universal price Monetization changes terms of debate [37:12] Nori’s challenge around verification of carbon removal Each method requires unique approach to measurement [38:00] How Nori differs from existing carbon registries Reduce barrier to entry (no fees to create methodologies) Don’t have to prove additionality [40:16] Mark’s insight on 45Q Tax credits for utilizing carbon (from power plant, atmosphere) Incentives overdo, but business must survive without it Resources Newlight Technologies Climeworks 45Q Tax Credit
In the beginning… Paul and Christophe realized that the blockchain provides an ideal platform for a carbon marketplace where people can get paid to remove CO2 from the atmosphere—and ultimately succeed in reversing climate change. It took more than six days, but they eventually put together a team, developed a business plan, and Nori was born. The bottom line is that we need to remove 1.5 trillion tonnes of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere to get back to safe levels. The Nori team intends to make that happen by connecting people interested in paying for carbon offsets with people who are using any number of methods to remove carbon from the atmosphere. One Nori token purchases one ton of carbon removal credits (CRCs), and the company measures the removal of CO2 and records that information on the blockchain. Ultimately, Nori leverages the power of markets to pay individuals who are innovating in the area of carbon removal and treat the root cause of climate change—too much carbon in the atmosphere. Today, Ross, Christophe and Paul are sharing the details of Nori’s role in reversing climate change, explaining the company’s principal aims, how Nori addresses the problems associated with current carbon removal markets, and how cryptocurrency figures into their plans. They walk us through Nori’s core values and their current progress in developing the platform. Listen in for the Norigin story and learn how the team is preparing to launch in 2018. Resources Simon Sinek’s TED Talk ASU Center for Negative Carbon Emissions The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine by Michael Lewis ConsenSys Key Takeaways [0:50] Nori’s purpose Build market mechanism that pays to remove CO2 from atmosphere [1:17] Nori’s role in reversing climate change Provide financing, incentives to facilitate large-scale carbon removal Measure and verify CO2 removal, record on blockchain [5:02] The cryptocurrency element of Nori’s plan One Nori token purchases one ton of carbon removal credits Represents universal price on carbon removal [6:49] The problems that Nori addresses Offsets sell for different prices Issues of double-counting Trust barrier No-cost payment methodology [9:09] Nori’s core values Open-sourced methodology Remove carbon AND maintain energy use, quality of life Create mechanism to reduce emissions (no favorites) Put price on carbon removal, leverage power of markets [12:30] How Nori came about Paul looking into climate change, started Carbon Removal Seattle Reached out to ASU Center for Negative Carbon Emissions Connected with Christophe, started Carbon Removal Society Christophe started Carbon A List, met Paul at conference Paul and Jaycen competed in Hackathon with Carbon Harvest Christophe moved to Seattle, worked with Paul on idea Entered month-long ConsenSys business planning competition Won in energy and environment category, founded company Hosting summit at end of April to demo prototype Plans to launch platform and token together in 2018 [25:10] The important issues Nori is working on Monetary economics to stabilize supply/demand Auditing system to disincentivize cheating Getting the word out (i.e.: eBook, podcast and whitepaper) [27:39] Nori’s current progress Developers creating platform, designing token Redesign of website