Podcasts about board governance

Boards don't magically run themselves—and this lively discussion proves it. Strategist and facilitator Mary Kay Delvo of Inspiring Sight lays out a practical path for turning board service from a vague obligation into purposeful leadership. She starts with a truth we all feel: “If they knew better, they'd do better.” Most board members were never taught governance, so we must teach it—and then expect ownership.Mary Kay reframes board work with a memorable mantra: protect and direct. Every decision should answer, How does this protect the organization and or direct it? Pair that with her second keeper—“Noses in, fingers off”—and you've got a fast filter for staying strategic without micromanaging.Her signature Seasonal Board Cycle makes governance easy to see and easy to use:·        Spring – Plant and cultivate: recruit intentionally for perspectives you truly need.·        Summer – Engage effectively: spread work through committees so knowledge isn't concentrated.·        Fall – Revitalize and harvest: measure real impact, not just attendance.·        Winter – Recharge and look ahead: scan for change, refine strategies, and celebrate wins.On strategy, Mary Kay replaces the dusty plan with a Strategic Map—a living journey to a destination. The destination stays constant; routes change as conditions change. That's why boards must revisit the map, assess detours, and make smart adjustments with staff. After the board approves the map, staff craft an Understanding Impact Map with goals, success indicators, reviews, and board reporting—so every meeting tracks progress, learns from misses, and recommends course corrections.She also addresses the classic tension between boards setting direction and staff living the day-to-day. Her non-negotiable: senior leadership joins the board in mapping, and staff input is synthesized and heard. Otherwise there's no buy-in—and without buy-in, plans gather dust.Most of all, Mary Kay gives boards permission to be human. Seasons change. Routes shift. Progress accelerates when everyone knows the role they play and the questions they must ask. Or in her words: “Boards need to be responsible for their own succession, evaluation, and foresight.” When that happens, governance becomes energizing—and impact becomes visible.Find us Live daily on YouTube!Find us Live daily on LinkedIn!Find us Live daily on X: @Nonprofit_ShowOur national co-hosts and amazing guests discuss management, money and missions of nonprofits! 12:30pm ET 11:30am CT 10:30am MT 9:30am PTSend us your ideas for Show Guests or Topics: HelpDesk@AmericanNonprofitAcademy.comVisit us on the web:The Nonprofit Show

www.marktreichel.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-treichel/In this episode of With Flying Colors, Mark Treichel breaks down the latest NCUA Board Meeting held on September 25, 2025. With only one agenda item—the NCUA Insurance Fund briefing—the discussion still revealed several key insights that credit union leaders need to know. From CAMELS code shifts to the impact of 27% of NCUA staff taking buyouts, Mark unpacks how these developments could shape examinations, budgets, and credit union operations in the months ahead.

One of the biggest decisions parents make is where their children go to school. With classrooms shaping faith, wisdom, and character, the stakes couldn't be higher.In this episode of BaseCamp Live with Davies Owens, President of the Stanley M. Herzog Foundation Darrell Jones, shares how one man's vision has grown into a nationwide movement for Christ-centered education. From his years as a pastor to leading one of the most influential organizations in the space, Darrell offers a front-row look at what's changing in public education, why families and pastors are seeking new options, and how the Herzog Foundation is stepping in with practical support.Discover:Why the “yellow bus” may look the same but is headed to a very different destination than a generation agoHow the Herzog Foundation Institute is equipping schools with free training and resourcesThe role of parents, pastors, and schools in raising up salt-and-light disciplesWhy the rapid growth of Christian education is more than a trend - it's a movement

How can colleges and universities be intentional about their governance so they are prepared to make decisions they've never made before, with higher stakes, in less time? How can boards strike the right balance between hindsight, oversight, and foresight? How can they create meaningful metrics on outcomes and the processes to achieve them? We dig into these questions with Steve Charles, Founder of the IMMX Group and higher ed board member (Note that Steve's views are his own. He's not speaking on behalf of any institution.)

AI dashboards offer higher education boards the opportunity to boost performance to improve their institutions. In this episode of the Changing Higher Ed Podcast, Dr. Drumm McNaughton speaks with Marc Huffman, CEO of OnBoard and eSCRIBE, about how AI dashboards provide trustees with better insight into board work and support more effective board governance. This conversation is especially relevant for presidents, trustees, and board professionals seeking to strengthen board readiness and make governance more data-informed. Topics Covered: How AI dashboards consolidate board materials and surface the most important information Methods for tracking progress against institutional strategy over multiple years Ways dashboards support board secretaries and committee chairs in managing follow-ups Why boards need AI use policies and trustee training to build digital literacy The coming role of predictive analytics and benchmarking in board planning Three Key Takeaways for Leadership: AI dashboards give boards better visibility into performance trends and unfinished business. Board composition and trustee development determine how well these tools are used. Governance policies for AI create a secure, ethical framework for decision support. Read the transcript on Changing Higher Ed: https://changinghighered.com/ai-dashboards-for-higher-education-board-governance/ #BoardGovernance #AIDashboards #HigherEducationPodcast

Host Julia Patrick welcomes Herb Paine, CEO of Paine Consulting Services, for a candid and thought-provoking conversation about the future of nonprofit education and leadership development. With decades of experience as a consultant, author, and sector leader, Herb brings a sharp perspective on how nonprofit organizations are preparing—or failing to prepare—for an era defined by disruption and rapid change.Herb cautions that too much of today's training for nonprofit executives and boards is locked in repetitive, outdated models. “A lot of what's going on in these spaces of learning is performative,” he explains, “but it's about doing better, not really engaging in systemic change.” Instead of producing transformative leaders, he argues, programs often reinforce traditional management practices that no longer align with the pace of technological, cultural, and social change.At the heart of his critique is governance. Boards are often celebrated for attracting members with deep pockets or corporate influence, yet that influence can restrict meaningful innovation. Herb recalls moments when distinguished board members blocked advocacy efforts because their corporate employers opposed certain policies. “What I'm more concerned about,” Herb insists, “is rethinking who governs, who's at the table, and how do we engage those people most affected by the policies and actions of organizations.”The deep conversation also surfaces a persistent issue in nonprofit leadership: the lack of standardized education and pathways. Unlike law or architecture, nonprofit leadership does not begin with a common language or academic foundation. Many executives are promoted from program roles without the necessary grounding in governance, financial strategy, or community-driven leadership. This creates a cycle of tactical rather than strategic planning, leaving organizations vulnerable to financial overextension, disengaged boards, and leadership silos.Herb further challenges consultants and educators, urging them to move away from formulaic retreats and stale curricula. Instead, he calls for dynamic, collaborative learning environments that confront fundamental questions of mission, value, and equity. He even suggests a “training school for consultants” to ensure they are equipped not just to facilitate sessions, but to guide transformation.The discussion turns briefly to philanthropy, where Herb sees funders as potential catalysts for change. While acknowledging the restrictions that often shape grantmaking, he advocates for foundations to take bold steps in supporting leadership development and systemic reinvention..Ultimately you will find Herb's message is clear: the nonprofit sector must stop spinning its wheels in repetitive systems and start rethinking leadership, governance, and education in light of the future already upon us. His forthcoming book, Up Your Nonprofit, will expand on these themes, offering a roadmap for organizations ready to embrace change.Find us Live daily on YouTube!Find us Live daily on LinkedIn!Find us Live daily on X: @Nonprofit_ShowOur national co-hosts and amazing guests discuss management, money and missions of nonprofits! 12:30pm ET 11:30am CT 10:30am MT 9:30am PTSend us your ideas for Show Guests or Topics: HelpDesk@AmericanNonprofitAcademy.comVisit us on the web:The Nonprofit Show

Caltech's board once had nearly 80 members; too many for focused discussion or quick decisions. In this episode of the Changing Higher Ed® podcast, Dr. Drumm McNaughton talks with Cathy Light, Caltech's Secretary of the Board, about how the institution streamlined governance, strengthened committees, and made trustee reorientation mandatory. Light, who has held senior roles at Carnegie Mellon University and the Semester at Sea program, outlines how Caltech conducts trustee assessments, structures its executive committee, and uses an ongoing governance review to keep the board working at its best. Topics Covered: Governance changes prompted by the pandemic Defining trustee responsibilities in 2025 Using the executive committee for responsive decision-making The role of the governance and nominating committee Trustee assessments and renewal decisions Making orientation and reorientation standard practice Maintaining strategic oversight without micromanaging Involving alumni and students without adding voting seats Real-World Examples: Reducing the board from 80 members to a manageable size Giving young alumni trustees full voting rights Using retreats and campus visits to connect trustees with faculty research Three Takeaways for Leadership: Keep governance review continuous and adaptive. Use orientation and reorientation to maintain alignment. Structure boards for informed, timely decisions without overstepping into operations. For presidents, trustees, board chairs, board secretaries, and governance committees aiming to improve board effectiveness. Read the transcript:  https://changinghighered.com/caltech-private-higher-education-board-governance-model/ #HigherEdGovernance #BoardGovernance #HigherEducationPodcast #HigherEdGovernanceModel

In this episode of I 501(c) You, we sit down with Bill Villafranco, trustee of the Virginia B. Toulmin Foundation and executive director of MyFace.org, for an inspiring conversation about leadership, philanthropy, and legacy. Bill shares his unique journey into nonprofit work, shaped by personal loss and mentorship, and offers a rare dual perspective on what it takes to lead as both a board member and an executive director. From navigating donor intent and intergenerational giving to managing board relationships and launching innovative community programs, this episode is packed with real-world insights for nonprofit leaders, board members, and anyone passionate about making an impact.  Timestamps: (00:00) Introducing Bill Villafranco, Board of Trustee of Virginia B. Toulmin Foundation and Executive Director of MyFace (04:26) Responsibility of a lifetime appointment (05:56) How are you making sure the Virginia B. Toulmin name exists into perpetuity? (08:36) Multi-generational philanthropic strategy (11:31) Becoming the Executive Director of MyFace (21:26) How will you be a better board member due to your work as an Executive Director? (23:46) What should board members know about being an Executive Director? (25:16) What advice would you give to businesspeople who are thinking about being on a board? (26:06) Final advice? (27:16) Recapping with Read Join us every week as we release a new podcast with information about how you can be the best board member and provide great service to your organization. Listen to the podcast on any of the following platforms: YouTube Apple Podcasts Spotify Podcasts Amazon iHeartRadio Visit us at: www.thecorleycompany.com/podcast

(0:00) Intro (1:49) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel(2:36) Introduction by Professor Anat Admati, Stanford Graduate School of Business. Read the event coverage from Stanford's CASI.(4:14) Start of Interview(4:45) What inspired Karen to write this book and how she got started with journalism.(8:00) OpenAI's Nonprofit Origin Story(8:45) Sam Altman and Elon Musk's Collaboration(10:39) The Shift to For-Profit(12:12) On the original split between Musk and Altman over control of OpenAI(14:36) The Concept of AI Empires(18:04) About concept of "benefit to humanity" and OpenAI's mission "to ensure that AGI benefits all of humanity"(20:30) On Sam Altman's Ouster and OpenAI's Boardroom Drama (Nov 2023) "Doomers vs Boomers"(26:05) Investor Dynamics Post-Ouster of Sam Altman(28:21) Prominent Departures from OpenAI (ie Elon Musk, Dario Amodei, Ilya Sutskever, Mira Murati, etc)(30:55) The Geopolitics of AI: U.S. vs. China(32:37) The "What about China" Card used by US companies to ward off regulation.(34:26) "Scaling at All Costs is not leading us in a good place"(36:46) Karen's preference on ethical AI development "I really want there to be more participatory AI development. And I think about the full supply chain of AI development when I say that."(39:53) Her biggest hope and fear for the future "the greatest threat of these AI empires is the erosion of democracy."(43:34) The case of Chilean Community Activism and Empowerment(47:20) Recreating human intelligence and the example of Joseph Weizenbaum, MIT (Computer Power and Human Reason, 1976)(51:15) OpenAI's current AI research capabilities: "I think it's asymptotic because they have started tapping out of their scaling paradigm"(53:26) The state (and importance of) open source development of AI. "We need things to be more open"(55:08) The Bill Gates demo on chatGPT acing the AP Biology test.(58:54) Funding academic AI research and the public policy question on the role of Government.(1:01:11) Recommendations for Startups and UniversitiesKaren Hao is the author of Empire of AI (Penguin Press, May 2025) and an award-winning journalist covering the intersections of AI & society. You can follow Evan on social media at:X: @evanepsteinLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/__To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/__Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

In this eye-opening episode, we unpack the quiet crisis in corporate governance: how boardrooms are often shaped by personal networks over real skills, leaving major ESG blind spots at the top. Guest Matt Moscardi, Co-founder of Free Float Analytics, joins us to explore signals that companies send by backtracking on their commitment and why treating investment stewardship as a cost center may be a costly mistake. We dive into the DEI backlash, flip-flopping climate commitments, and how surface-level sustainability reports (complete with curated optics) reveal more about a company's culture than they realize. Plus, what makes a great sustainability analyst? It's not just the data—it's the curiosity, context, and ability to challenge the narrative. Perfect for anyone building ESG skills, delivering corporate sustainability training, or decoding the signals behind the statements.

Segment 1:  Faron Daugs, CFP, Founder and CEO, Harrison Wallace Financial Group, joins John to talk about how the market has been performing this week, why he believes a market correction can be healthy, the latest on tariffs and the possible impact on the economy, Fed Chair Powell’s comments on interest rate cuts earlier this week, and when […]

Cornerstone's 2024 Volunteer of the Year Award Winner and Wellby Financial Board Chair Deborah Conder discusses what it means to be a credit union champion; shares about her long career with Johnson Space Center and Wellby; and shares advice for those seeking to serve on a board. 

Episode Summary In this episode of On Boards, Joe and Raza welcome Marc Schneider, an accomplished e-commerce and fintech executive with decades of experience building and scaling mission-driven companies. Marc shares his entrepreneurial journey, including his tenure as co-founder and CEO of Zebit, a transformative e-commerce and fintech platform, and his current role as an Operating Venture Partner at Ulu Ventures. The discussion dives into governance challenges in venture-backed startups, the evolution of boards from early-stage to IPO, and how founders can effectively leverage board expertise. Marc also discusses Ulu Ventures' commitment to supporting diverse entrepreneurs and shares insights into his innovative role as an “active” board observer and mentor to founders. Key Topics Discussed 1. Marc Schneider's Career Journey Background and Passion for Mission-Driven Companies: Marc's journey began with his personal experience of financial hardship, which inspired his work at Zebit to provide credit-impaired consumers with fair access to products without interest or penalties. Key Roles: From managing customer service operations at ProFlowers to leading Zulily and founding Zebit, Marc's career has been defined by innovation and scaling impactful businesses. 2. Zebit's Business Model and Mission Zebit's Unique Value Proposition: Providing underserved consumers with fair, interest-free payment options for e-commerce purchases. Challenges: Operating efficiently without typical revenue streams like interest or penalties, while predicting customer payment behavior with data-driven models. IPO Journey: Zebit went public on the Australian Stock Exchange (ASX) to access liquidity, even though the process posed significant challenges, including valuation issues and market unfamiliarity with its business model. 3. Board Governance in Startups Evolution of Boards: Marc discusses the progression of boards through funding stages, from limited investor involvement in early rounds to more structured and diverse boards in public companies. Lessons for Founders: Understand the dual role of investors as board members and stakeholders. Take an active role in shaping board dynamics and agendas. Prioritize chemistry and diverse perspectives in board composition. 4. Ulu Ventures and Supporting Diverse Entrepreneurs Ulu Ventures' Mission: Backing women, minority, and diverse entrepreneurial teams using decision analytics to assess investments. “Active” Board Observer: Marc's role involves mentoring founders, facilitating board discussions, and bridging gaps between management and governance. 5. Lessons Learned and Giving Back Persistence and Adaptability: Marc's reflections on navigating challenges, from startup struggles to delisting Zebit, emphasize resilience. Mentorship and Legacy: By supporting young entrepreneurs, Marc hopes to inspire a cycle of giving back within the startup ecosystem.

If you're considering bringing on a Chief of Staff or just need someone to explain the basics, this episode lays the groundwork and levels-set the foundation for future discussions on the role.A Chief of Staff works closely with the CEO, helping with company strategy, gap-filling key roles, and ensuring executive team cohesion. They can set up effective meeting structures, help onboard new executives, and even turn around toxic cultures. Key examples include managing strategic planning, coordinating board governance, and running critical projects during crises like COVID. Links Mentioned:Clarity Call with EmilyFree Resources:Strategic Planning Checklist Chief of Staff Skills Assessment ChecklistA Day in the Life of a Chief of StaffChief of Staff ToolkitGet in touch with Emily:Connect on LinkedInFollow on YouTubeLearn more about coaching Sign up for the newsletterClarity Call with EmilyWho Am I?If we haven't yet before - Hi

Episode Summary In this insightful episode of On Boards, hosts Joe Ayoub and Raza Shaikh welcome Pam Lenehan, a seasoned board member with over 22 years of experience on public company boards. Pam offers an in-depth look at the evolving responsibilities of boards and their members, including critical areas like cybersecurity, ESG, and CEO succession.   Drawing on her experience across seven public company boards, Pam discusses the increasing complexity of board roles, committee responsibilities, and the importance of a collaborative, learning-focused approach for today's directors. Key Topics Discussed: The Expanding Role of Boards in Risk Management Pam explains how boards are increasingly required to manage a broader spectrum of risks, from cybersecurity and AI to unexpected events like pandemics. She highlights the need for board committees (audit, compensation, technology) to coordinate their oversight on key issues and work with management to stay proactive.   Board Dynamics: Shifts in Meeting Structure and Time Commitments The increased reliance on digital platforms has, among other things, led to voluminous board materials, often reaching hundreds of pages. Pam shares how boards are restructuring their meetings to prioritize discussion over presentation, with a growing emphasis on pre-meeting preparation.   Pam notes how the frequency of both board and committee meetings has increased, with some public company boards now often holding eight or more meetings annually.   Maintaining Collegiality Amid Virtual and Shorter In-Person Meetings As more meetings shift online or the agenda is so packed it leaves little time for social interaction, the value of planned social opportunities, even brief breaks, to foster trust and rapport among board members. Pam's insights on “planned socialization” underscore its role in facilitating effective communication and decision-making. Evolving Expertise on Boards: Moving Beyond Generalists With a growing need for specialized knowledge in finance, industry, and technology, boards are increasingly composed of directors with specific expertise. Pam shares practical advice on balancing specialized skillsets and emphasizes that most board member should still possess a solid understanding of broader governance areas, even beyond their primary expertise.   The Role of the Board Chair and Lead Director Raza and Pam discuss the crucial role of the board chair in ensuring all voices are heard and the board remains aligned. With a diverse array of specialists now joining boards, the chair's leadership is increasingly important to synthesize perspectives and guide effective discussions.   The Influence of Shareholder Activism and Public Company Challenges Pam recounts her experiences with shareholder activists, noting how modern boards must be prepared to engage with sophisticated activist stakeholders. For directors, understanding activist perspectives and strategizing responses requires both diplomacy and transparency.   The Time Commitment of Board Service For anyone considering board service, Pam provides a candid look at the significant time and energy required. Acknowledging that board roles demand consistent weekend reading and adaptability for unscheduled meetings, she advises prospective directors to consider the full requirements of a board commitment before joining a board.   Continuous Learning and Networking for Directors Pam discusses the importance of ongoing education in governance, such as through the NACD, board excellence centers, and director forums. She advocates for cultivating networks with other directors to share experiences and insights, particularly on emerging or complex issues.   Supporting Diversity and Inclusion on Boards A proponent of diverse board representation, Pam shares her efforts to mentor women preparing for board roles. She encourages both current and aspiring board members to seek education and develop networks that enhance board diversity and effectiveness.

In this episode of CU On the Show, host Doug English is joined by board governance experts Jennie Boden, CEO of Quantum Governance, and Lynette Smith, chief engagement officer and former credit union CEO. Together, they dive into the crucial role of board governance in driving credit union success. From creating a Governance Action Plan to building a strategic, forward-thinking board, Jennie and Lynette share actionable insights on how credit unions can evolve their governance practices to support sustainable growth. Whether you're a board member, CEO, or credit union professional, this episode offers valuable takeaways on strengthening governance to meet the challenges of today and tomorrow. 

With five decades of higher ed administrative experience, John Derry, President Emeritus of Hope International University, has experienced many highs and lows in dealing with biblical higher ed board governance.Recently, ABHE has been blessed to have John as a coach in our board governance training program.Tune in to this episode to hear John break down some common warning signs of ineffective boards and how higher ed administrations can ensure buy-in from their trustees.Join us as we discuss:[4:46] Three critical board governance mistakes[14:24] What distinguishes higher ed boards from other industries[23:39] Practical tips for effective board governanceCheck out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:ABHE Board Governance TrainingExperiencing God Bible Study Book by Henry BlackabyM.J. Murdock Charitable TrustTo hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website, or search for Biblical Higher Ed Talk in your favorite podcast player.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

In episode 106 of Mission: Impact, Carol Hamilton talks with Julia Patrick, a seasoned nonprofit leader and philanthropist. On the episode, Patrick shares her perspectives on the evolving challenges and opportunities in nonprofit board governance, emphasizing the importance of strategic board management, the integration of younger leaders, and the need for continuous training to foster board engagement and effectiveness.  The discussion also covers innovative solutions such as board liaisons and board portals to streamline operations and enhance transparency. Patrick advocates for intergenerational collaboration and the adoption of the 10-10-10 rule for decision-making, which helps leaders prioritize actions based on their impact over time.   Episode highlights: Challenges in Board Governance [00:05:45 The complexities of board service, the importance of mission achievement, and the uniquely American philanthropic spirit. Generational Shifts and Board Member Engagement [00:07:54]  The demographic shifts affecting board membership, including the "silver tsunami" and the rise of next-gen leaders. She describes how younger leaders, particularly Millennials and Gen Z, approach board service differently, emphasizing data-driven decision-making and digital proficiency. The Role of Board Liaisons and Technology in Governance [00:12:27]  The role of professional board liaisons and the use of board portals to manage documents and ensure transparency. She highlights the importance of these tools for efficient board operations, particularly for younger members.   Effective Board Management Practices [00:16:29]  The need for effective meeting management, and connecting board members to the organization's mission through ongoing training. Training and Development for Board Members [00:19:32]  The importance of training board members not only on governance but also on the specific mission and operations of the organization. She suggests shadowing staff members as a way for board members to gain deeper insights. Intergenerational Collaboration and Board Dynamics [00:24:20]  The conversation touches on the benefits of involving C-suite members in board meetings and the importance of intergenerational collaboration for the long-term health of nonprofit organizations. Recruiting and Retaining Younger Board Members [00:29:46 ]  Strategies for recruiting and retaining younger board members, including the buddy system, soft skills training, and institutional knowledge transfer. The 10-10-10 Rule for Decision-Making [00:34:10]  Patrick shares her "10-10-10" rule, a decision-making framework that considers the impact of actions over 10 weeks, 10 months, and 10 years, helping leaders prioritize and stay strategic. Guest Bio: Julia C. Patrick is the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy and trains nonprofit leaders across the globe. At the onset of the global pandemic in 2020, Patrick launched The Nonprofit Show, the nation's only daily live broadcast. She and her team have produced more than 1,000 episodes and have been broadcasting now for 5 years!
 Important Links and Resources: Julia C. Patrick American Nonprofit Academy Building Board Champions: https://www.amazon.com/Building-Board-Champions-Activating-Impactful/dp/B0D58122XR   Related Episodes: Episode 61: Impactful boards Episode 81: Being a co-leader with your board Episode 99: Elevating nonprofit governance and leadership Episode 102: The Nonprofit board's duty of foresight   Be in Touch: ✉️ Subscribe to Carol's newsletter at Grace Social Sector Consulting

Dara Khosrowshahi runs one of the most complicated businesses in the world, Uber. Since taking over in 2017 Dara has led the company to profitability against all odds. In this episode, we touch on a number of things including Uber's position on the future of Autonomous Vehicles (AVs), the challenges that were overcome in making Uber profitable, and some of the operating principles that have stuck with Dara since his days at Expedia. (00:00) Intro(01:49) Uber's Economic Resilience and Consumer Trends(04:40) The Future of Autonomous Vehicles(14:27) Strategic Decisions and the Advanced Technologies Group(31:01) Uber's Expansion and Competitive Landscape(38:01) Living in the Suburbs: Practical Insights(39:23) Cultural Reset at Uber: A Necessity(42:39) Operational Efficiency: Lessons from Uber(46:56) Global Adaptations: Uber's Local Innovations(48:58) Leadership and Mentorship: Personal Reflections(51:32) Career Path: From Finance to CEO(01:00:14) The Importance of Constructive Conflict(01:04:47) Long-term Strategy and Board Governance(01:07:07) The Impact of Uber: A Global Perspective(01:08:54) Conclusion and Farewell Executive Producer: Rashad AssirProducer: Leah ClapperMixing and editing: Justin Hrabovsky Check out Unsupervised Learning, Redpoint's AI Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@UCUl-s_Vp-Kkk_XVyDylNwLA

Former CEO of PepsiCo and New York Times bestselling author Indra Nooyi joins host Michael Marks for a wide-ranging conversation to share her insights on the growth of big tech companies, the impact of AI, CEO-board relationships, and much more. Indra currently serves on the boards of Amazon, Phillips, Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, the National Gallery of Art, and is a Dean's Advisory Council Member at MIT School of Engineering. Her New York Times bestselling memoir My Life In Full offers insight and a call-to-action from one of the world's most-admired business leaders on how our society can blend work and family — and advance women — in the 21st century. She is widely considered to be one of the world's top CEOs for her leadership at global giant PepsiCo over 12 years. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and State of the Markets 02:47 The Disruption of Technology Companies and the Role of AI 12:55 The Importance of Board Governance and CEO Succession Planning 20:32 Supporting Working Families and Advancing Women in Business 30:26 Navigating Geopolitical Challenges in a Global Economy 36:17 India's Potential and the Need for Disciplined Democracy Links https://www.amazon.com/My-Life-Full-Family-Future/dp/0593421329 https://www.linkedin.com/in/indranooyi/

In this episode of "The Brand Called You," Don Springer, Chairman of The Colton Group Inc. and an esteemed independent board director and advisor shares his extensive experience in corporate governance, growth strategies, and business model innovation. They discuss common pitfalls in board governance, the importance of diversity, effective growth strategies during economic downturns, and the transformative role of technology, particularly AI, in modern business practices. Tune in to gain valuable insights from a seasoned leader in corporate America. 00:31- About Don Springer Don is the chairman of The Colton Group Incorporated. He is an independent board director and advisor focused on board governance, growth strategies, and business model innovation.  He's the director of Elm Analytics LLC, which is the leading provider of supply chain optimization through data and intelligence. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tbcy/support

In this episode of The Church Planting Podcast, Greg Nettle, president of Stadia Church Planting, chats with Steve Porter, chair of the Stadia board. They delve into the essential qualities and functions of a good church board member, highlighting the challenges church leaders face in financial management due to their lack of training in this area. Steve shares his extensive experience on various boards, emphasizing the importance of financial literacy and transparency for nonprofit leaders. They also discuss the role of policy governance in maintaining an effective board by setting clear boundaries and responsibilities. [00:00:18] - Introduction of Steve Porter, background on his board experience. [00:01:03] - Steve joins the podcast, discusses his journey with Greg and involvement in church boards. [00:02:15] - Importance of financial education for pastors. [00:05:29] - Discussion on ensuring transparency and understanding financial controls. [00:06:44] - Shift to policy governance, its benefits and pitfalls. [00:12:00] - Characteristics of an effective board member: encouragement, wise counsel, accountability. [00:14:49] - Ideal composition of a church board and strategic member selection. [00:19:04] - The personal connection between board members and their support for the leader. [00:22:11] - The role of a board in supporting personal and spiritual goals of the leader. [00:24:52] - Wrapping up, the joys and challenges of serving on a nonprofit board. [00:26:37] - Conclusion and thanks to Steve Porter. Connect with Greg and Stadia at https://stadia.org

How to Best Utilize a Board of Directors for your ESOP Company Today's show featured a return of CFO, Andy Yetzer of YTS Companies and one of his Independent Board Members, Ken Saddler, who's also a Fractional CFO and former guest as well. We covered a topic on how best to use your Board in an ESOP. YTS Enterprises is the owner of three companies and is an ESOP. Andy said that deciding to add Independent Members (meaning advisors outside of the business with no relationship to it) has been a big game changer for YTS, and has credited the expertise of Ken and the other member Nick for being the kind of fit they were looking for in Board Members.  Ken said that it boils down to three criteria when choosing someone for your Board: Values, Background, Trust.   He also says that establishing good Board Governance is essential for a successful Board and therefore a successful ESOP.  Andy said that the trust level he has with Ken and Nick are the foundation for why it works for them so well. Their backgrounds, expertise and networks have also been integral to the company's growth and success. Andy knows that when Ken or Nick make a connection to someone in their network, they're going to have a highly qualified, like minded person to work with. If you have or are considering an ESOP form of business transition, you'll want to listen to this episode hereConnect with Ken Saddler here Connect with Andy Yetzer here Support the Show.Join the Twin Cities Chapter of EPI at the 2024 Owners Forum! Learn More and Register here

Todd Linden, experienced hospital CEO with Linden Consulting joins the Teledigm Pulse to talk about hospital boards and the importance of board governance strategies for rural hospitals. 

Obligations in the board governance and strategic planning of biblical higher ed institutions often get a bit murky. If a school ultimately fails to support leadership in reaching its goals, who's responsible?Scott Rodin, Chief Strategy Officer and Senior Consultant with The FOCUS Group, believes the school's board chair must instill a culture that embraces God's vision for its campus. Only then can leadership truly come together to carry out their college or university's mission.Scott shares key observations about the critical role board governance plays in today's Christian higher ed institutions and common mistakes to avoid.Join us as we discuss:[3:10] Three observations on the current state of biblical higher ed[12:12] Why a boardroom's culture can make or break a school[21:50] The need for agile strategic planning in a post-Covid worldCheck out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:The Greater Mission by Scott RodinTo hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website, or search for Biblical Higher Ed Talk in your favorite podcast player.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

This month we are joined by Zach Christensen, Director of Communications and Digital Marketing at Mitchell Stankovic & Associates. MS&A is a strategic consulting firm which has served only credit unions for 30 years, focused primarily on Board Governance and CEO support. His passion for Credit Union's comes from the passion of those he works with but has stuck with Zach because of the opportunity he has to help CU's change lives. Beyond that, Zach serves in multiple volunteer roles including the Global Women's Leadership Network, World Young Professionals, and he founded CU Pride. Today he shares his thoughts about where DEI currently stands in the CU industry and how he believes DEI is naturally aligned with what credit unions are all about. He goes on to provide his opinions about the overwhelming challenges credit unions will face looking forward. Zach's insights are fresh and forward-thinking. Listen in to hear a new perspective on our industry! Interviewers: Nate Burns & Shonna Shearson Producers: Ryan Kane & Steve Schmidle Supporting Cast: Robert York, Original Ryan Olsen, Jeff Morris, and James Wileman

The Triumph Together Challenge⁠⁠ is in full force 

Jennifer Jukanovich, a seasoned nonprofit leader with nearly three decades of experience discusses her forthcoming book, The Culturally Conscious Board: Setting the Boardroom Table for Impact, which explores the importance of board culture in achieving organizational success. The conversation addresses a number of important aspects of board governance, including board culture and the critical role of trust and humility. We love our listeners! Drop us a line or give us guest suggestions here. Big Ideas/Thoughts/Quotes 1. The Culturally Conscious Board ·      Two important concepts which are emphasized: o   The significance of board culture and its impact on decision-making and governance, and the role of trust, humility, and hospitality in building an effective board culture. o   Jennifer's closing thoughts on the importance of strong board culture in the nonprofit sector. ·      Encouragement for boards to engage in deeper conversations and continuous improvement. ·      Introduction to the "board culture placemat" and its use in facilitating board discussion and b building a strong board culture. ·      Examples of successful practices for building and maintaining a healthy board culture. "Boards are assets to our society, and our hope is that our book, The Culturally Conscious Board, will contribute to that conversation."  Jennifer Jukanovich   Book Reviews “Sitting on a board is easy. But being a great board member is another matter entirely, especially if your organization needs change. Jukanovich and West show you how to do it with confidence and grace.” Arthur C. Brooks, Professor, Harvard Kennedy School and Harvard Business School, and #1 New York Times bestselling author   “‘Culture eats strategy for breakfast,' Drucker said, and most boards don't explore how their culture either detracts from or advances their mission. This work invites boards to move from habits and traditions that restrict their impact toward deeper examinations to make wise changes and meet the challenges of our day.”   Robert C. Andringa, Managing Partner, The Andringa Group, and coauthor of Nonprofit Board Answer Book   2. Challenges and Opportunities in Board Governance o   The importance of diverse representation and an inclusive board culture. o   Practical advice on improving board culture, including transparency, accountability, and feedback mechanisms. o   Addressing issues such as long-term leadership and the balance between large boards and effective decision-making. "Humility catalyzes greater trust, whether that is your family or that's a board."   "Good governance creates health. Good boundaries create healthy culture."  4. The Critical Partnership between the CEO and the board chair o   How the board chair can help ensure all voices are heard and foster a culture of openness and respect.

260: The Blueprint for Building Exceptional Nonprofit Teams (Will Sparks)SUMMARYHow can you harness the power of organizational culture to drive optimal performance in your nonprofit? In episode 260 of Your Path to Nonprofit Leadership, Dr. Will Sparks, an expert in leadership and organizational culture, delves deep into the dynamics of culture, leadership, and team performance. Drawing from his extensive research and experience, Will unpacks the nuances of leadership influence and the role of executive tenure in shaping organizational culture. He explores the challenges and opportunities for new leaders in transforming established cultures, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness, resilience, and candid communication. From navigating board dynamics to founding the Center for Human and Organizational Potential (CHOP), Will offers actionable strategies and valuable insights for nonprofit leaders seeking to cultivate a culture of excellence. ABOUT WILLWill Sparks is the Dennis Thompson Chair & Professor of Leadership at the McColl School of Business at Queens University of Charlotte, where he also serves as the Director of the Office of Leadership Initiatives. In 2008, he founded the McColl School's M.S. in Organization Development (MSOD) Program and served as Director until 2013. Will serves as the Managing Director for William L. Sparks & Associates, LLC, and as a Partner with Peter Browning Partners, LLC, a consulting firm providing board governance and executive coaching. His TedX Talk “The Power of Self Awareness” released in 2018. He is the author of “Actualized Leadership: Meeting Your Shadow & Maximizing Your Potential” and co-authored (with Peter Browning) “The Director's Manual: A Framework for Board Governance” (2016, Wiley). He completed his Ph.D. in Organizational Behavior and Development under the direction of Dr. Jerry B. Harvey from The George Washington University's School of Business and Public Management, where his research focused on group dynamics, organizational culture, and leadership.EPISODE TOPICS & RESOURCESActualized Teamwork: Unlocking the Culture Code for Optimal Performance by William L. SparksHear more from Will on Your Path to Nonprofit Leadership in episode 14.Have you read Patton's book Your Path to Nonprofit Leadership: Seven Keys to Advancing Your Career in the Philanthropic Sector Check out our new website, PMAnonprofit.com!

Where is your bullseye - the center of your heart, passion, and calling?In this episode, Jeff and Jake discuss: Lessons from a childhood around the firepit.  Business and opportunities in every stage of life.  Serving a God of abundance.Letting God's lamp light your next step.The importance of setting and holding boundaries with yourself.   Key Takeaways: Working with kids and teens is not a 1-week thing. It is 52 weeks out of the year. Giving does not have to be prescriptive. What breaks your heart? Use that. Fundraising isn't about the money, it's about the heart of the giving partner. It is spiritual before it is mechanical.Be disciplined without haste. Rhythms of rest are necessary. There is always going to be more work to be done, but never once does the Bible say “Jesus ran.”  "I don't know about you and your 20s, but for me, I wanted a beacon for the next 200 steps. I didn't want a lamp to my feet and a light to my path, right? But the beauty of that is He gives us that lamp and it's just enough light for the next step and the next step and the next step." —  Jake Bland Episode References: C12: https://www.joinc12.com/Halftime Institute: https://halftimeinstitute.org/Pursuing God's Will Together: A Discernment Practice for Leadership Groups by Ruth Haley BartonThe Council: A Biblical Perspective on Board Governance by Gary G. Hoag, Wesley K. Willmer, & Gregory J. Henson About Jake Bland: Jake is the 10th President and CEO of Youth For Christ USA, a pillar of missional youth ministry since 1944, when the Rev. Billy Graham served as YFC's first full-time staff member. Today, Youth For Christ reaches young people everywhere, including in over 100 nations and through 140 local chapters across America, with a special focus on engaging 11-19 year olds who do not know Christ. YFC intentionally pursues young people who often feel overlooked, building relationships, and uncovering God's story of hope at pivotal moments in their lives.Jake's journey with YFC began as a high school student, then as a volunteer and intern. Prior to joining the YFC staff, he taught in the Interactive Media Department at Bradley University and co-founded two media production companies. He holds a master's degree in Youth Ministry Leadership from Huntington University.Jake and his wife, Ali, live in the Denver area. As a volunteer, Jake serves as an elder in their church, and as the board chairman for Presence Point—a non-profit organization that helps leaders live into their calling. Jake and Ali have two children: Silas David (8) and Ivy Rehn (6). Their family loves traveling, music, hiking, spending time with friends, and enjoying God's creation in Colorado. Connect with Jake Bland:Website: https://yfc.net/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-bland-96553834/ Connect with Jeff Thomas: Website: https://www.arkosglobal.com/Podcast: https://www.generousbusinessowner.com/Book: https://www.arkosglobal.com/trading-upEmail: jeff.thomas@arkosglobal.comTwitter: https://twitter.com/ArkosGlobalAdv Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/arkosglobal/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/arkosglobaladvisorsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/arkosglobaladvisors/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLUYpPwkHH7JrP6PrbHeBxw

In this wide-ranging discussion Igneo's Head of Responsible Investment for Europe, Sophie Durham, speaks with Karina Litvack, Non-Executive Director on the energy transition, the role of exclusion, setting climate change targets, greenwashing and green hushing and demonstrating progress on the energy transition.**********************Important informationThis material is for general information purposes only. It does not constitute investment or financial advice and does not take into account any specific investment objectives, financial situation or needs. This is not an offer to provide asset management services, is not a recommendation or an offer or solicitation to buy, hold or sell any security or to execute any agreement for portfolio management or investment advisory services and this material has not been prepared in connection with any such offer. Before making any investment decision you should consider, with the assistance of a financial advisor, your individual investment needs, objectives and financial situation.We have taken reasonable care to ensure that this material is accurate, current, and complete and fit for its intended purpose and audience as at the date of publication. No assurance is given or liability accepted regarding the accuracy, validity or completeness of this material and we do not undertake to update it in future if circumstances change.To the extent this material contains any expression of opinion or forward-looking statements, such opinions and statements are based on assumptions, matters and sources believed to be true and reliable at the time of publication only. This material reflects the views of the individual writers only. Those views may change, may not prove to be valid and may not reflect the views of everyone at Igneo Infrastructure Partners or First Sentier Investors.About First Sentier InvestorsReferences to ‘we', ‘us' or ‘our' are references to Igneo Infrastructure Partners or First Sentier Investors (as applicable). First Sentier Investors is a global asset management business which is ultimately owned by Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group. Igneo Infrastructure Partners is an unlisted infrastructure asset management business and is part of the First Sentier Investors Group.We communicate and conduct business through different legal entities in different locations. This material is communicated in:[1]Australia and New Zealand by First Sentier Investors (Australia) RE Ltd, authorised and regulated in Australia by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (AFSL 240550; ABN 13 006 464 428) European Economic Area by First Sentier Investors (Ireland) Limited, authorised and regulated in Ireland by the Central Bank of Ireland (CBI reg no. C182306; reg office 70 Sir John Rogerson's Quay, Dublin 2, Ireland; reg company no. 629188)Hong Kong by First Sentier Investors (Hong Kong) Limited and has not been reviewed by the Securities & Futures Commission in Hong Kong. First Sentier Investors and Igneo Infrastructure Partners are business names of First Sentier Investors (Hong Kong) Limited. Singapore by First Sentier Investors (Singapore) (reg company no. 196900420D) and this advertisement or material has not been reviewed by the Monetary Authority of Singapore. First Sentier Investors (registration number 53236800B) and Igneo Infrastructure Partners (registration number 53447928J) are business divisions of First Sentier Investors (Singapore).Japan by First Sentier Investors (Japan) Limited, authorised and regulated by the Financial Service Agency (Director of Kanto Local Finance Bureau (Registered Financial Institutions) No.2611)United Kingdom by First Sentier Investors International IM Limited, authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (reg. no. SC079063, reg office 23 St Andrew Square, Edinburgh, Scotland, EH2 1BB)United States by First Sentier Investors (US) LLC, authorised and regulated by the Securities Exchange Commission (RIA 801-93167)other jurisdictions, where this document may lawfully be issued, by First Sentier Investors International IM Limited, authorised and regulated in the UK by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA ref no. 122512; Registered office: 23 St. Andrew Square, Edinburgh, EH2 1BB; Company no. SC079063).To the extent permitted by law, MUFG and its subsidiaries are not liable for any loss or damage as a result of reliance on any statement or information contained in this document. Neither MUFG nor any of its subsidiaries guarantee the performance of any investment products referred to in this document or the repayment of capital. Any investments referred to are not deposits or other liabilities of MUFG or its subsidiaries, and are subject to investment risk, including loss of income and capital invested.©    Igneo Infrastructure Partners

"..invest in relationships, the relationships of the board to the head with one another are incredibly important, especially that relationship between the board chair and the head of school, and it is the ceiling on schools." -

In this episode of Beyond the Donation, managing partner Ken Cerini of accounting firm Cerini and Associates discusses strategies for better fiscal management and the roles of board members in a strong nonprofit.Ken stresses the importance of implementing effective financial controls, maintaining open communication between board members and management, and conducting regular board meetings. He also emphasizes the significance of accurate budgeting based on monthly variations rather than a divided annual budget. Ken provides insights on potential minor tax exemptions and the risk of nonprofits losing their tax exemption status if not careful. He further explains the nuances and implications of the 501 (c)(3) tax exemption. Additionally, he shares advice to smaller organizations on attracting board members and adapting to changing technology trends for more effective accounting and record keeping.00:00 Introduction00:52 Ken Cerini Introduction01:38 The Importance of Creativity and Imagination in Accounting03:28 Breaking Down Nonprofit Taxes07:04 How to Keep your 501(c)(3) status09:50 The Role of Reporting in Nonprofits12:40 Understanding the Relationship Between Board Members and Budgeting“That budget is a super important tool, probably one of the most important control tools with respect to the fiscal operations of the organization.”15:55 The Importance of Using a Monthly Budget vs. an Annual Budget16:43 Building a Collaborative Relationship Between the Board and Management20:30 How to Attract Board Members22:31 The Impact of Technology on Nonprofit Accounting26:21 Conclusion and Contact InformationFree Resources:Board Guide https://online.flipbuilder.com/rmyw/wgtt/Trend Guide https://online.flipbuilder.com/rmyw/aoiw/index.html#p=1Fundraising Guide https://online.flipbuilder.com/rmyw/txie/To Connect with Ken Cerini:Website | KCerini@CeriniCPA.com | 631-582-1600 ex 203To Connect with Beyond the Donation Podcast:BTDPodcast | DonorDockLinkedIn | MattLinkedIn

This episode has something for everyone!  We talk Golf/Succession Comps (1:05) PLAYERS takeaways (10:15) Callaway spinoff (18:07) LA Muni Golf Drama (19:42) then take a deeper dive on Board Governance including the new TOUR structure (24:00) Enjoy, subscribe, send to a friend!#CRS #GolfBusiness #Golf #Business #podcast

Technology is advancing at a breakneck speed, presenting both new opportunities and challenges for organizations. Ismat Duckson Aziz, CHRO and Chief Administrative Officer at the Kemper Corporation, joins the Talent Angle to discuss how CHROs can shape the technology strategy of their organization. She explains how CHROs can overcome the anxiety that comes with diving into the rapidly changing environment of technology, and assert themselves as drivers of enterprise innovation. Ismat Duckson Aziz is the Chief Human Resources Officer (CHRO) and Chief Administrative Officer of Kemper. Aziz has over 25 years of HR experience, most recently serving at US Bank as Chief Advocacy Officer. Previous roles include CHRO for Sprint, CHRO for Sam's Club, and senior HR roles at Sears Canada, Inc. and MDS Pharmaceuticals. Ismat earned a Masters of Business Administration from the Richard Ivey School of Business – University of Western Ontario and completed her undergraduate work at the University of Toronto. Ismat holds certifications in Board Governance and HR internationally. Jessica Knight is a vice president of research in the Gartner HR practice. She leads research teams to identify best practices and new opportunities to address HR executives' most urgent challenges. Her areas of focus include employee experience, organizational culture, change management and the future of work.

Own or lead a family business? If so, you need to listen to this podcast. Tom Bakewell is an expert on board governance. He is a CPA, lawyer, and best-selling author of the book Claiming Your Place at the Boardroom Table.

[00:00:00] David Gyerston: What motivates her or him to want to be the Chair of the Board? Some Board Chairs are shadow presidents. They really want to run the institution. And other Board Chairs are too disconnected. They want the title but they don't want to have to deal with anything on an ongoing basis. Call me if the place is on fire, but other than that, let's not have a relationship. ++++++++++++++++++ [00:00:21] Tommy Thomas: Today, we're continuing the conversation we began last week with Dr. David Gyerston. In addition to his many other accomplishments, David has been the president of three different universities, Regent University, Asbury University, and Taylor University. Each of these schools were in a different stage of the institutional life cycle when David arrived. These three experiences have honed his senior leadership skills. Additionally, when one is president of three different universities, one gets a lot of Board Governance experience. That's where our focus will be today. You mentioned earlier, the board, the CEO-Board Chair relationship. I'm going to segue over into board service because you've probably had as much experience in board service in the nonprofit sector as most of the guests that I've interviewed. And let's just ask a basic question. What is the function or the role of the Board Chair? The Board Chair serves as the linkage between the President and the Board of Trustees [00:01:23] David Gyerston: The Board Chair really serves as the linkage between the President and the Board of Trustees. And that relationship is probably one of the most important in terms of successful executive leadership and board governance. And right now, I have several clients where I'm coaching both the new president and the board chair together. In helping them think through and work through their relationships. It used to be that boards of trustees met a couple of times a year, and they heard a bunch of reports, and if everything was going well, they had a wonderful reunion time, and ate well, and then went home. Now Boardsmanship is 24/7. And much more is expected of board members and the challenges facing our nonprofit faith-based boards have never been greater. As a result, then the understanding of how the board works with the CEO and the senior leadership team and particularly how that relationship supports that between the board chair and the CEO has never been more important. So in my three university presidencies to this day, my board chairs are still my best friends. Because we became even though technically he represented my boss, we essentially walked this together and became - he was my sounding board to say, I think given the executive parameters that the Board has given me, I have the authority to do such and such, but I just want to bounce that off of you. Is this something that you think maybe the board should be informed about? Before I actually take the action, or do you think I should seek counsel from the board or a committee of the board before I take this action? Or do you think this is an action that the board itself, even though it hasn't defined that I must report back to them before making this decision? A lot of times this is stuff that, you build this railroad laying the track in front of the oncoming locomotive. You don't always know if you've got the right track laid out there. And so, I think that relationship of partners together, collaborators together.  Too many CEOs see boards as something they have to overcome or manage and that's just the wrong attitude. Boards are there to collaborate with you as the CEO in achieving the mission and holding you accountable and empowering and supporting and enabling you for you to lead in the basic achievement of that mission. And so, I had weekly calls with my board chairs. I recommend that now that every board chair and president touch base at least for half an hour every week, just as an update.  And it's more than just operational. It's also spiritual. In terms of mutual support. [00:04:23] Tommy Thomas: Give me some words and phrases that would describe the ideal board chair. I know it can be situational, but there are probably four or five that you just need, period. [00:04:33] David Gyerston: As I said earlier, motivation and character are everything for me. And while there are lots of competencies and capacities you need in a board chair, and I'll mention some of those in a moment, so much of it has to do with, who is the Board Chair? What motivates her or him to want to be the Chair of the Board? And are they motivated for the correct reason? Some Board Chairs are shadow Presidents.  They really want to run the institution.  Others are too disconnected.  They want the title but none of the responsibilities. Some Board Chairs are shadow Presidents. They really want to run the institution. And other Board Chairs are too disconnected. They want the title, but they don't want to have to deal with anything on an ongoing basis. Call me if the place is on fire, but other than that, let's not have a relationship. So there's a relational component anchored to character and motivation that I think is so critical that I think the board chair needs to represent in character, in motivation, in spiritual commitment the highest ideals of the institution that the board basically is guiding and guarding so and then there are other competencies, of course, that are needed. I think effective communication skills. This person has got to be a transparent communicator and a clear communicator person who can manage conflict and crisis is really important. I'm seeing more and more faith-based boards in division now than they've ever been before. And it's often over social, cultural, and political issues more than missional or organizational issues. Masks, no masks, vaccine, no vaccines, Trump, no Trump. On and on the list goes. And good board chairs have to be very capable of managing the divisions and the increasing level of conflict that exists and even the best of faith-based boards. I think a person who can encourage the full involvement of every board member. Some Board members are overly involved, and a Board Chair must be able to reign them in with grace, but firmness. You have some board members that are overly involved, and a Board Chair needs to be able to reign them in with grace, but with firmness. There are other board members that are wallflowers. They're going to sit and say nothing. And you need the full council, the whole council of the whole counselors so that the board can effectively function. I think that the competency, particularly in institutional viability, I'm seeing more and more of the importance of board chairs knowing how to read a balance sheet and understand, but also in reading that balance sheet, understanding the core deliverables in higher education. Obviously, it's somebody who understands the very unique nature of colleges and universities. They're not corporations. One of the problems I find with successful corporate leaders who become Board Chairs is that they don't often see that the business of education is very different than the business of producing X number of widgets an hour at a specified cost. And so understanding the complexity of how higher education operates particularly and the industry, whether that's, a hospital board understanding the nature of hospitals, whether it's a nonprofit social service board, understanding the challenges that the clients are facing, those become competencies and then capacity is really critical. This is, I hinted at earlier, is not a few hours a year, and this is now multiple hours a month, and depending on the state of crisis, it could easily be 10 hours a week. And I'm working with a couple of boards right now whose executive committee is having to meet three to five hours on average a week because of the strategies and the tragedies that the institution is facing and the dangers the institution is facing. So those are just a checklist of things that, when I'm coaching a new board. As a matter of fact, one of the things I just went through, which was really interesting, is I was hired as a consultant to a board of trustees that wanted me to vet two or three of their board chair candidates and to look at the strengths and weaknesses of each and then help them select the best board member for this moment in the institution's history, because much like we said earlier about executive leadership, what are the big rocks that boy, this board has got to pay attention to right now or the rocks are going to fall on them if they don't move them. A good Board Chair must create an atmosphere where differing opinions can be heard. [00:09:08] Tommy Thomas: Respond to this quote, “You need a director on the board who will be a pleasant irritant. Someone who will force people to think a little differently. That's what a good board does.” [00:09:21] David Gyerston: Yeah, I think you always want to create, and this is the role of the Board Chair, a context where differing opinions can be respectfully heard. And that people can be encouraged to have differences of opinion. There are some personalities that enjoy thinking otherwise all the time. And they're always going to be the gadfly, and that's their sense of personal mission and on the boards where I have served and on, on the boards that have supervised me, there have been on occasion a board member or two who felt their primary mission was to stick a pin in every balloon, and so you've got to find a balance there. You want people with differing points of view, and that means that how you build a board in terms of its diversity - diversity in culture, diversity in racial identification, men and women, different professions, most good board practices now have board profiles, where they've identified the 20 most strategic skill sets in industry that they feel they need on the board to staff committees effectively, but also to bring those varying perspectives from their industries to what I think are important. I'm always hesitant to suggest that we recruit a board member whose primary mission is to be the gadfly. But I do think you create a context in which even if a board agrees 90% of the time and 95% of them agree 90% of the time the 5% feel free because again, they're there. I like Scott Rodin's idea that board members are stewards of the mission and they're there under divine appointment. And so if they've got a caution or a hesitation, I'll give you a quick illustration. I had a situation where one board member just felt that a decision was not correct, but he didn't want to be the gadfly. And so out of respect for the majority who thought it was, he did not share his opinion. Two years later, it turned out that the majority of opinion of the board cost that board over 20 million dollars of unnecessary expense, and the very thing that board member felt a twinge in his spirit about was the cause that resulted in that $20 million loss. And he is now kicking himself that he did not speak up sooner and raise the concern it wasn't that he felt he couldn't it was just he felt like he didn't want to be the bother, the guy throwing the wet blanket on what everybody else was so enthusiastic about and so creating a context where people genuinely are prayerfully trying to discern what's the right decision and then having a context where if they deeply feel and are motivated correctly for expressing what they deeply feel, not just to be heard because that's their role but really feel the prompting and the twinge of the spirit in our faith-based settings. The chair then and the president both are responsible for ensuring that all hearts are clear. I love that phrase. Are all hearts clear? And if they aren't, then let's stop before we make the decision and find out why your heart, Dave or Joan, isn't clear. And is it something that we need to delay decision on, something we need more information on, or is it just something that fundamentally it's a disagreement that doesn't really have at its heart the danger to the mission that we then move forward and say Dave, appreciate your position on this but as a majority, we think this is the right way to go and as a good board member in those situations, I would say all right, I support that because again, one of the basic principles is that you don't go out of a board meeting and not support the whole the decision of the board, even though you may have disagreed with it. And you always want to be able to have your heart clear that you've been heard. Even if you haven't been agreed with. [00:13:54] Tommy Thomas: You and I are old enough to remember Enron and for those that aren't, all they have to do is read the paper recently and see about the bank failures in Northern California. And although these organizations aren't nonprofits I'm sure there are lessons we can learn. One guy did some writing after Enron, and he said that the board was just guilty of not asking hard questions. Which they didn't. They didn't dig deep into the finances. How does a board ensure themselves that they've got people asking the questions, and people are comfortable asking the questions, which goes to your last few comments. [00:14:35] David Gyerston: Yeah I think, again, in terms of best practices, there are elements of information that every board should be looking at routinely. And so those get identified and then the administration is expected to provide those reports and that information honestly, fully, and transparently. I think that's really critical. The Board needs to know what information it needs in order to ensure that they're fulfilling their legal fiduciary and moral obligations to the people the organization serves. And so, the Board needs to know and figure out what information does it need in order to ensure that they're fulfilling their legal fiduciary. And moral obligations to the people the organization serves and then, the boards tend to ask how to questions more than why to questions, often there were looking at how are we doing? Is it efficient? The effective side of it often is not as much focused on in terms of probing and questioning, and it's back to, when an organization puts out a mission statement, that's a promise. And by the way, there's been a lot of litigation now by beneficiaries of the institution feeling that the promise was not delivered on. And again, as we said earlier, with faith-based and non-profits, it's hard to actually measure the effectiveness of the delivery of promises. But I think the board should be always asking with every decision, why are we doing this? And how are we sure that this is basically delivering on the promises we've made to our donors, our students, our clients our constituencies that are out there? And so, a lot of times it takes a great deal of energy. And the good news is that there are a lot of great organizations doing this very well. And the danger I find with a lot of nonprofits is they're very siloed. They think, nobody else is like us. The reality is 90% of other organizations are just like you and there's something you can learn from them in terms of getting out with best practices. And so again, one of the things I do in coaching new presidents and new board chairs is to connect them to some other presidents and board chairs that they could be a part of in terms of a list, sharing together from time to time, identify about 10 organizations similar to you get to know their CEO and their board chair and bounce ideas off of each other and see who else has wrestled with this and how they've wrestled with it. A lot of times you'll find out what you should not do, but I think, again, getting accurate information and knowing what information to ask for becomes one of the biggest challenges of being an effective board in these settings. ++++++++++++++++= [00:17:30] Tommy Thomas: One of your colleagues, Dr. Sandra Gray, whom I interviewed very early in my podcast, we were talking about risk management, and one of her thoughts was that probably nonprofit boards didn't pay enough attention to risk management.  Any thoughts that you have there? [00:17:46] David Gyerston: Yeah I think that we sometimes, because of the spiritual nature of what we do we know God is in control and God historically has bailed us out in the past that we've not paid as much attention to what are the emerging threats and risks that the institution is facing in this day and age. And so much of the emerging risks right now have to do with personnel-related issues. And government delineations of personnel and the LGBTQ agendas, the Title IX agendas a lot of things like that are finding more and more, I think students and parents in higher education are more likely to litigate over disciplinary issues over other things that they view as a threat. Typically, most of us, most of our organizations are insured and good insurance companies will come in and do a risk mitigation assessment before they actually issue you a policy. Because if you've got a lot of broken sidewalks and railings that are ready to fall off of buildings obviously they're going to want those fixed. So we're used to risk management in those areas. But right now, it's missional risk management. What are the things that are likely going to cause us to not be able to continue to deliver on our mission? I'm working with one university that took a position a few years ago as it related to the broadening of Title IX to include sexual orientation as a protected category in that state, who said, if that is what is required of us, we'll close the institution and move to a different state. And I think risk mitigation has to move to that missional centric. What are the things that, if something changes, would make it very difficult and perhaps impossible for us to maintain integrity with our mission, to be Christ-centered, and biblically anchored in all that we do, and if we're required by the government, local, state, national, to compromise on those, at what point do we compromise? And we've got a lot of our Christian colleges and universities right now, Tommy, as you know well, that are right in the middle of that kind of decision-making. And they didn't in advance anticipate that they would ever get to the point where they could lose their 501c3 status. Because they didn't let people, faculty members switch gender or something like that. And I think risk management has to be more concentrated on missional risk as opposed to operational risk, which is where we've been in the past. [00:20:41] Tommy Thomas: I recently heard a nonprofit CEO say when they want you to stay is the best time to leave. When should a board or a CEO begin to address succession planning? The day the new CEO is hired is the time you put a succession plan in place. Because if you decide to do something two or three years into the CEO's tenure, that can be a real threat. [00:20:54] David Gyerston: I think the day the new CEO is hired is the time you put a succession plan in place. Because if you decide to do something two or three years into the CEO's tenure, that can be a real threat. What's the board trying to tell me? One of the areas that I work on is board policy manual reviews and assessments. And one of the things that I look at right up front has to do with whether there is a succession plan. And so that's done independent of the current leadership. And how is succession going to occur? In these kinds of situations, you have a planned succession, or you've got somebody who's going to retire in two years, or somebody who has decided they want to leave the CEO role and step into a different vocational calling at that point. There's a specific way you go about doing that, and other times there are unplanned succession realities where the CEO is incapacitated and they haven't had a plan in place to say, should our CEO be unable to serve? How do we manage and handle that? And then there are the most difficult, which are the ones when a CEO has to be immediately dismissed for incompetency or immorality or some other egregious situation. And succession planning basically falls into three big categories in terms of how you do that particular planning, for a CEO, when is it time for a CEO to start thinking about maybe it's time to move on? And, I've done that probably more than I should have in my career. Some of it was for legitimate reasons, some less than legitimate. Because of my own personal struggles and issues, but I think that when you wake up in the morning and you're no longer excited by the challenge, the mission doesn't burn in your bones anymore. And if that feeling persists over several weeks, then it may be time as we say in Charismatic and Pentecostal settings, maybe the anointing has lifted, and it's time to think seriously about moving on to something else. Boards essentially, if they're doing a regular annual evaluation should be identifying those areas of the CEO's function that are effective and successful and those where improvement is needed. And that helps a board then know, when, because the reality is that institutions at different points in their history need different leadership. I've been a part of the Coast Guard Auxiliary for several years, and one of the things that I learned in working with the Coast Guard, same with the Navy, is that there are captains for different purposes at different times in a ship's history. There are mission captains when you're at war, there are captains who are skilled at maintaining the fleet. There are other captains whose specialty is to bring the boat into dry dock and to sound the hulls and refit the thing so it can be ready for mission. And I think a lot of times it's very hard to find a new CEO in this day and age. I know in the searches that you do. Like the ones I've been involved in. There is no shortage of people who think they can do the job. And so you get a hundred applicants and maybe there are five out of them that maybe have the skill sets that are needed at this moment in the institution's history and need. And so, a board needs to discern, we've had Dave as our president for the last 15 years and it's been wonderful. But the institution has changed. And the needs of the institution have changed. And the opportunities for the institution have changed and bless your heart, your little heart, Dave, as we say here in the South, bless your little heart you're not changing as quickly as or even should you change who you are in order to accomplish the next season. And I think that dialogue when it's healthy happens between a board and a president have been a part of a few in the last decade where the board and the president came to a mutual understanding that, yeah, that the institution needed different leadership at this point, so let's plan a transition process and move forward. [00:25:18] Tommy Thomas: My experience has been that's hard for boards. Most of the searches we do, CEO searches, the board says, find us somebody to be here 15 to 20 years. And I'm saying, I think in our, and I remember, and you knew him well, Dr. Clyde Cook at Biola. Clyde was a 25-year president. I tell people there probably won't be many more 25-year presidents. There may not be many more 15, nor should they be. I think you have to look at it situationally, and law boards don't want to do that.  [00:25:51] David Gyerston: The most recent statistic, which you may have seen, says that the average university president across all sectors serves 5 - 9 years. So that's the reality. [00:26:03] Tommy Thomas: Yeah, if they're lucky. [00:26:04] David Gyerston: Yeah, if they survive the first year. The reality is that institutional succession planning needs to be driven by the emerging needs of the institution. As best as can be defined, because so much of it is unpredictable and undefinable now that you're probably looking at a president for a five-year to 10-year term in faith-based settings would be realistic for most presidents, assuming they have the, and this is one of the keys I know you look for as well, is, can they adapt? Are they able to change? Do they, can they innovate? Can they manage change? Can they manage the conflict of change? And then you can see somebody lasting a little longer. Barry Corey has been at Biola for 15 years now. Tim Tennant's been at Asbury Theological Seminary for 15, going on 16 years. And each of them has demonstrated the ability to adapt to the changing realities of their institutions. And those are rare birds. As you've suggested, I doubt we're going to see that happening much in the future. [00:27:14] Tommy Thomas: Let me close with this question, because we see it all the time, and I'm sure you do. The experience of the outgoing CEO sticking around in some sort of an advisory capacity. Can you argue both sides of that? [00:27:28] David Gyerston: Again, it's institutionally specific. I think one of the things I have found and I don't know what your experience has been at the search process, is that it's hard to get really good candidates when they know the previous CEO is going to be around in some capacity, as a chancellor, often why I see this title being thrown around as a chancellor, he's there basically with the mission to help the new president on board. Often there's the board is worried about, major donors leaving, etc. And so maybe if they keep the former president around, they can maybe preserve, also they're hedging their bets. Because often if the new president isn't somebody that's already known to them, isn't an internal promotion, then they don't know fully who they're getting. And so sometimes keeping, assuming they want them around, I had that experience at Taylor where they board had decided to keep Dr. Kessler in a Chancellor's role and they were two years trying to find a new president and were unsuccessful because who wanted to follow Jay Kessler. And Jay and I had been friends for years. They came back to me three different times over about an 18-month period and said, Dave, we just would really like you to consider this. And Nancy and I felt like our work at Asbury was wrapping up and we did give it consideration. But what the board had done is they were very wise, and they said basically the Chancellor serves at the pleasure of the President. And if you want to use him, go ahead and use him any way you want to. If you don't want to, then he can stay home and we'll pay his Chancellor's stipend to him for the period that we've agreed to. And so Jay and I were able to work it out, in terms of, Jay is an externally focused person. He loves the roar of the crowd, and the smell of the grease paint, and presidents get invited to, a hundred different things a month. And Jay was my ambassador on my behalf, and he presented himself that way. I'm here on behalf of President Gyerston. One of the dangers is that when the new president has to start making changes, and I did at Taylor, the old president can feel somewhat threatened by that. And Jay managed those threats extremely well. And particularly when people would do an end run around me, and would go to Jay and say, you know what that Gyerston guy is doing? And it may be something that he maybe wouldn't have agreed with. He always shut them down and sent them. He said, no, Dave's the President. Very few former Presidents can remain connected to the institution and serve a positive and constructive role. You go back and talk to him. Jay Kessler is a rare bird. Very few former presidents are able to remain connected to the institution and serve a positive, constructive role. So I normally say that to boards that want to honor the title of President Emeritus, and offerto buy him a home 500 miles away from campus. And what has happened with me, which I've appreciated, is that I have said to the new president coming in, because it was said to me by the outgoing presidents, if you need counsel, I'm available to you. And so Taylor's had three presidents since I left. Each of them have picked up the phone and called me on occasion, basically to get a historical perspective, not to get my opinion about what they should do, but to get the context of what exists and why it exists so they know better what to propose as a plan to deal with whatever now had emerged. And so I normally discourage keeping the former CEO around in any official capacity, definitely not have him on the board, definitely not have him reporting to the board. I've seen that happen and that's a disaster because the new president doesn't last more than a couple of years. Because the new president will have to make changes, the old president, now as a board member, or someone reporting directly to the board doesn't agree with and the undermining occurs very quickly. +++++++++++++++ [00:31:35] Tommy Thomas: Thank you for joining us today. If you are a first-time listener, I hope you will subscribe and become a regular. You can find links to all the episodes on our website: www.jobfitmatters.com/podcast.  If there are topics you'd like for me to explore my email address is tthomas@jobfitmatters.com.   Word of mouth has been identified as the most valuable form of marketing. Surveys tell us that consumers believe recommendations from friends and family over all other forms of advertising. If you've heard something today that's worth passing on, please share it with others. You're already helping me make something special for the next generation of nonprofit leaders. I'll be back next week with a new episode. Until then, stay the course on our journey to help make the nonprofit sector more effective and sustainable.   Links & Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas The Perfect Search – What every board needs to know about hiring their next CEO   Connect tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Follow Tommy on LinkedIn

[00:00:00] David Gyerston: So much of this begins with the reality that these presidential roles are too big for any single person to manage. We're always looking for the next Moses or David. And the reality is, there is no Moses or David anymore that can possibly handle everything that needs to be done. So I've stopped thinking about finding presidents and started thinking about teams that can make up the office of the president, which is a different perspective. +++++++++++++++++++ [00:00:28] Tommy Thomas (2): Our guest today is Dr. David Gyerston. David completed bachelor's level studies in theology at Lauren Park College in Ontario, Canada. Took his BA in Philosophy and Religion and Psychology from Spring Arbor University. He has Masters level studies in College Student Personnel and Sociology from Michigan State.  Masters level studies in Comparative Higher Education from the University of Toronto and a Ph.D. in Higher Education Administration and Management from Michigan State University. All of these degrees were completed by a man who never graduated high school. At least not the way most of us did. In fact, one of his high school guidance counselors told him that he wasn't smart enough to graduate and he should drop out and get a job in the gold mines or the lumberyards. From this inauspicious beginning, David went on to be the President of three different universities. He and I have been friends for at least 20 years, and it's an honor to have him as our guest today. [00:01:33] Tommy Thomas:  Before we take it too deep of a dive into your professional career, take us back to your childhood. What two or three experiences do you remember as having shaped you best? [00:01:47] David Gyerston: Tommy, I am Canadian. I was born in Toronto, but I was raised in Timmins, which is about a hundred miles south of Hudson's Bay in a gold mining and lumbering community right on the Quebec border. And childhood was difficult. My dad was an alcoholic, and my mom had some really severe emotional and mental and physical problems. So, I ran away from home when I was 13. And a Free Methodist minister and his wife, who were pastoring a little congregation up there in the Great White North took me in off the streets. I lived with them for the next five years and had come to faith through their witness and ministry when I was about 14. But still had a lot of trouble. I never graduated high school, and don't have a high school diploma to this day. And one of the most profound experiences I had, other than my conversion experience, under Jim and Marion Tutelage, was my high school guidance counselor calling me in when I was 15 years old and telling me that, these were his words, David, you're just too stupid to be in school. You need to drop out and get a job in the gold mines or in the lumber yards, which were the two main industries in northern Canada at that time. And so I talked to Jim and Marion about it and they said, no, persist. The guidance counselor was correct. I flunked out in the 12th grade, never finished. But Jim and Marion felt strongly that God had a plan for my life. I didn't know what it would be, but the Free Methodist denomination had a Bible school and residential high school near Toronto, and Jim and Marion talked them into letting me in for one semester. So, I had to take some high school courses, and then started on the Bachelor of Theology degree, the three-year program, to begin preparing for pastoral ministry. And that's when I really came alive, not just spiritually, but also intellectually and academically. I really fell in love with the study of scripture and the disciplines of learning. And so those would have been a couple of major turning points for me that shaped me in my childhood.  I had the privilege of leading my dad to the Lord at the Salvation Army drop-in center in Toronto. He was out on the streets. I'd been pastoring in the city for a couple of years and went down to help the Salvation Army at their Harbor Light Mission. One night when I was preaching, my dad came in off the street, and I didn't know he was there, he didn't know I was there, and when they had the altar service at the end, he came forward. And the captain and I led him to the Lord and the Salvation Army took him in. He was a cook, and so he cooked for their officer's training college there when I was in Toronto. And with the problem with alcohol, it's a recidivism situation. And he fell off the wagon two or three times, but I believe he made a genuine commitment to the Lord. And then later I also saw my mom come to faith as well. So I was able to be reconciled to both my parents even though they never reconciled together. I trust that they're reconciled now with Jesus in heaven. Those are a couple of major anchor points for me. [00:05:14] Tommy Thomas: With that kind of backdrop, walk us through your pilgrimage to the PhD. [00:05:20] David Gyerston: I went to Lorne Park College, which was the Free Methodist School. Completed two years of the Bachelor of Theology degree when the school went bankrupt and closed. Those of us in that program had the option of either transferring to Roberts Wesleyan College or Spring Arbor College, and I ended up going to Spring Arbor, with about a dozen others from Lorne Park, and while I was there, I came under the tutelage of Dr. David McKenna. He took an interest in me and began to suggest that perhaps my calling, because I wasn't sure about pastoral ministry, was Christian higher education. And then when he left and went to be president at Seattle Pacific University Dr. Elwood Voller came from Roberts, interestingly enough, as president, and he picked up that mantle, and so he got me into a master's degree program at Michigan State, where he had previously been Dean of Student Affairs there, earlier in his career, and I finished up. I did a Master's in Sociology, Social Work, and Counseling. Then felt I needed to go back to Canada because I owed some service and went back to pastor a church in Toronto and did a second Master's Degree in Comparative Higher Education at the University of Toronto.  And so I was specializing in comparative higher education, comparing and contrasting the U. S. system of higher education with the Australian system of higher education. And again, not to get in the weeds, but the Australians were the first to really pioneer distance education. And so, they were doing a lot of education over ham radio in the Outback. It was really interesting to see how they began that distance-distributed education model that was later picked up in the U. S. systems. Then came back to Spring Arbor, working and teaching at the university, and pursued a Ph.D. at Michigan State, which was in administration and management, particularly focused on college and university administration and management. And then did a special cognate in the field of organizational communication theory and innovation theory. And then graduated with a Ph.D. in that area. [00:07:43] Tommy Thomas: So, I know you taught along the way, but think back to your first management job when you actually had people reporting to you. What do you remember about that? [00:07:52] David Gyerston: Woody Voller felt that I needed to get a lot of experience across the various administrative operations. And so, I was in student development, I was in admissions recruitment, and enrollment management. I was in fundraising in the area of writing grants and raising money, alumni relations, and church relations. In most of those, I only had a secretary reporting to me so my first really significant time of leadership came when I was invited to go to Virginia Beach to help start what was originally CBN University. I was one of the founding team members of Regent University and that grew then and we ended up with a significant number of faculty and staff. Later I was President and had those responsibilities and was invited then after that to become President at Asbury University and went there and led the institution for seven years and then was invited to Taylor University as President and led that institution for five years. And so that was the senior leadership journey went into semi-retirement, went back into teaching in the PhD programs and Doctor of Ministry or Doctor of Strategic Leadership Programs at Regent was in an endowed faculty chair. Then began my consulting and coaching work with the emerging Christian leaders during that time. I went out to California for a couple of years but one of my clients was struggling with an accreditation issue. So I took over the leadership of that institution to help them through that. And then we decided to retire back here in Kentucky. At Asbury, and with that known, the president at the seminary asked me to come back and be the founding dean of the Beeson School of Practical Theology. When I was here previously with David McKenna, I'd served with him as his vice president and was on the faculty at the seminary earlier on in my career before I went back to Virginia Beach, and that's too long a story to tell. But, essentially, we had gotten a $60 million grant from the Beeson family to start the Beeson Center and when Dr. Tennant at the seminary heard I was coming back, he wanted me to come back and revisit that and restructure it. So I was Associate Provost and Dean of the Beeson Center. And then the school, until just recently, when I finally, I never was going to fully retire, but I finally retired again from getting a paycheck and now I'm working, in the coaching and consulting and doing some teaching on the side. ++++++++++++++++++++ [00:10:36] Tommy Thomas:  You've been a part of two maybe two quasi-startups. So I guess the Beeson Center was a startup, and CBN was pretty much a startup. When you think of a startup, in this case, a university or college, what are some things that are different than when you went to Ashbury and Taylor, where you had something that had been around a long time? [00:10:59] David Gyerston: Yeah, I sequentially, the startup was moving from Spring Arbor to Virginia Beach. Throughout my career, I've either been involved in start-ups, fix-ups, or ramp-ups and usually, it's three to five years in those various settings. And in my career path, essentially, I've either been involved in startups, fix-ups, or ramp-ups, have been essentially, and usually it's three to five years in those various settings. And in going to Regent, of course, it was ground zero and starting everything from scratch. There were three of us on the initial team, an academic leader, a librarian, and myself, for everything else. And of course, it's navigating all of the various governmental and accreditation hoops in order to even start a university, which took us a year, and then trying to decide where we would focus in terms of our curriculum. Initially, we felt we could have the greatest impact by focusing on graduate-level education at the master's level. Intentionally Christ-centered, we were looking for students who had a call in their life and needed a place to enhance their call. And so, we established what we thought were the six or seven major arenas where if we could find talented, deeply committed Christian men and women and train them well and put them into positions of influence, we perhaps could impact culture the quickest and the fastest. And so communications, and then education, and then business, and then counseling, then law. All became part of the original plan and within five years, we had all of those programs up and operating with a student body of around seven or eight hundred. Today, Regent has a student body of over ten thousand. It's 11,500 this past year both with an undergraduate and graduate program up through the Ph.D. [00:12:49] Tommy Thomas: So you've hired a lot of people and you've fired one or two probably. But when you're hiring at the cabinet level, what are you looking for? [00:12:57] David Gyerston: So much of this begins with the reality that these presidential roles are too big for any single person to manage. I've been doing a lot of work the last decade or more helping universities in transition, and particularly working with them as they try to figure out who they're going to need to lead them next. And particularly the last three to five years, the complexities have been so intense that it's become clear that there's no single person who can possibly do all that a president's office is responsible for. So I've stopped thinking about finding presidents and thinking about teams that can make up the office of the president, which is a different perspective. And so you begin with, obviously, the institutional needs. And there are some generalized needs that all institutions have, but there are some immediately pressing needs. When I am working with a Board on the on-boarding of a new president, one of the questions I am asking is “What are the essential big rocks that the President needs to move in the first 90-120 days on the job?” That are distinctive and unique to that institution. And so the president needs to be equipped to address those. Often when I'm onboarding new presidents, one of the things I'm working with the Board of Trustees on and the search committee on, are what are the essential big rocks the president needs to move in the first 90 to 120 days. Or there isn't going to be any institution left. And you've got to deal with the crises at hand. And that then determines, the nature of the president's ability to handle those. And in building a team now, in terms of the office of the president, the C-Suite that will support the President, you begin with what are the institutional needs, the most pressing needs at this moment, what are the skill sets needed to address those pressing needs. Do they exist in the president, or does the president need to bring around her or him, the team members that can bring the multiple different skill sets needed to address and resolve the Immediate crises and then the long-term needs of the institution? One of the things that we're finding, Tommy, is that the old model, which was the command and control, top-down, the person that went to the mountain and got the direction and came back and said, here's where we're going, that model isn't working anymore. In most institutions, let alone higher education institutions. And so in the faith-based community, of course, we're always looking for, the next Moses or David. And the reality is, there is no Moses or David anymore that can possibly handle everything that needs to be done. And so, one of the most important skill sets in a new executive leader is can that person understand their strengths and weaknesses, and do they have an orientation toward collaborative decision making and are they able to identify build and support a team then that can bring the various pieces to bear and that means a person that's not threatened by people smarter than them, and more equipped and talented than them. Usually in the C suite when I've been asked to help presidents identify direct reports, that's the strategy I follow. What are your needs? What are your skill sets, Mr. President, Mrs. President, meeting those needs? And what kind of team members do you need in order to complement and supplement yourself? And that collaborative model with a person who's very, and this is another dimension, very secure in their sense of calling to the position becomes really important, particularly for faith-based institutions. [00:16:32] Tommy Thomas: So, let's flip that over then, I know every now and then you've had to release somebody. How is that best done? [00:16:40] David Gyerston: I don't think there's any off-the-rack suit, and plan to do this. I think, obviously, it begins with a very honest, open and thorough assessment of where the individual is not performing effectively. Not everybody would agree with me on this. I tend to view a subordinate's dysfunction as my dysfunction. And it's my problem. What is it that I haven't done to ensure that this person is equipped, is empowered, enabled, and is supported to get the job done?  It's the old biblical idea. Let's look at the spec - beam in my own eye here before I start looking at the spec in somebody else's. And then it's a process of being sure that we've thoroughly communicated to the employee, the dysfunctioning employee, what the expectations are a lot of times people are surprised when they're fired because they had no idea what the supervisor was expecting of them because the supervisor had not communicated effectively, and there is now a lot of legal realities around due process and paper trails. And that's helped us, I think, as leaders, to be more thorough in communicating and documenting areas that need improvement and usually, I like to start with here's where some dysfunctions need to be corrected. Let's work together to figure out how to correct them. Here are the objectives and the performance measurements we're going to use and then give three to five to six months if that's possible. Sometimes you've got to let somebody go very quickly. If it's a moral failure or a complete incompetence failure, you may have to act more quickly. But I want to be sure before I fired anyone, that I had thoroughly communicated my expectations, and had laid out a thorough plan for them to be successful. And then after feedback over several weeks, a couple of months, three months, if that still wasn't making them successful, then to work with them to find a respectable and honorable departure and wherever that was possible and we had the financial resources, we always wanted to give people, a landing pad so that they could be assisted in finding their next place of employment. If a person is just completely incompetent, so much of this is attitude, I think, in bringing up children, often it isn't the behavior that we want to discipline, it's the attitude behind the behavior that we want to focus on and so for me, I'm always looking for is, does this person have a teachable spirit? Is there a sense of humility? The other thing to take into account is, and I've failed here a couple of times badly, where I left a person in a position too long in terms of hoping that they would course correct and I did damage to their team and their team members were hurt, frustrated several of them in a couple of situations end up just quitting because they felt like nothing was going to change. And I realized then that I've got to find a balance between giving time for people to perform effectively and recognizing when it's time. I think if there's any mistake I've made in my career, it's that I've not fired fast enough. Because so much grace was given to me, I think I tend to allow that to color my approach to people. And sometimes there's too much grace when more deliberate immediate action is going to be needed. ++++++++++++++++++++= [00:20:33] Tommy Thomas: I'll move over to team leadership for a minute. I want you to think of maybe your best team and then tell me about the most ambitious project you've ever undertaken and how you got the team to come behind you. [00:20:48] David Gyerston: Again, various opportunities present themselves at various times, some of those are unique opportunities that are positive in nature. We have the opportunity to receive a 50 million grant and we need to figure out how we're going to use that effectively. There are times when essentially, we're in crisis. And we've got to figure out collaboratively and in unity how we're going to deal with those crises. The one for me, which was most significant, is when I became the president of an institution, I won't name specifically, and walked into a very large building project that had failed miserably and they'd been trying to raise money for two or three years, it was a $25 or $30 million project, which in that institution's case was the largest they'd ever taken on, and they had only raised a couple of million. And so, we had to pull a team together to figure out why wasn't the money coming in? Because I tend to operate on the principle that if God ordered it, then God's going to provide for it. And if God isn't providing for it, then possibly he didn't order it. And so we went right back to square one on this particular facility. And again, without getting too far in the weeds, went back to a complete reassessment of the actual needs and what the facilities were going to be used for, pulled a massive team together of end users, as well as key people, including prospective donors alumni in that institution. And then relaunched we had to eat about a million dollars of costs on the old plan. But we launched it and within three years or less than three years, we had raised all of the money necessary to build the building debt-free. And so much of that was again, basically getting the right people, involved in the opportunity at the right time and place. And then giving them the freedom to bring their creativity and inviting them to make it happen. And that institution tended to look to its CEO for all of the decision-making. So, we had a culture change that needed to be made. And initially, people were uncomfortable being invited into a collaborative process. They were used to being good soldiers. The general issued the orders. And we marched on the hill and took it or didn't take it. This idea of participating in the design and decision-making and process was something that from a cultural vantage point had to be addressed before we could actually be successful. So I don't know if that gets at what you're thinking about Tommy, but that's just a process I've used. [00:23:39] Tommy Thomas: Going over to maybe back to general leadership, and we see I guess probably if you've been around as long as you and I have, you've probably seen a lot of leaders fail. What do you think is the most dangerous behavior or trait that contributes to a leader's derailing her or his career? [00:24:01] David Gyerston:   There are lots of ways to describe this, but I think basically a core sense of humility and understanding what your limitations are. I think most of the triage work I've done with leaders in crisis really comes back to their own understanding of their, or lack of understanding of their weaknesses and limitations. And so often the failure is the direct result of a blindness to those aspects of their leadership style, their decision-making that essentially, they weren't aware of. And some of this we define broadly in psychological terms as EQ, the ability to read the room accurately, to discern how we're coming across. A lot of times one of the manifestations of a lack of EQ is a talker rather than the listener kind of orientation, somebody asks a question and answers it for themself. I see that a lot, particularly in Western leadership. I've taught in Singapore, I've taught in South Africa, and there's a very different modality of leadership in those settings. We in the Western world have this great man, great woman approach. So, the leader of the belief that they have to have the answer for everything and they can never admit that they're not capable of bringing the answer or that they need help in finding the answer. And so that all boils down to a lack of self-awareness which often is manifested in a lack of humility to admit where a leader needs assistance and help. Sometimes that gets shown particularly in a relationship between a CEO and their board, where the CEO is not completely forthcoming, particularly with difficult news or bad news. And we say in college university administration that the boards of trustees only have one employee, that's the president, right? And they rely then on the president to provide them with all of the accurate and transparent information they need to make good decisions, and I would say about 75% of the time when I'm invited to help with a leadership crisis, it's been a breakdown in communication between the CEO and the board, and I have a situation where I helped with a senior executive level search where the top three senior executives were fired, and they were shocked they were fired, and the board of trustees was shocked they were shocked. Because they thought they were communicating effectively to the leadership team and vice versa, and they were just missing each other, so one of the first things we had to do before even beginning the search process for new leadership was to figure out how to help the board become more effective in communicating, but also in asking for the strategic information that was essential to the viability and fidelity of the institution's mission. A lot of presidents in higher education, basically their reports to the board are designed to prove to the board they've hired the right guy as president. And in reality, the board needs to see some of the difficulties and be presented with reporting that is actionable, that allows them to make their fiduciary decisions with wisdom, etc. [00:27:36] Tommy Thomas: Yes, it's been said that we learn most from our failures If that's the case, why are most of us so afraid to fail? [00:27:44] David Gyerston: Again, I think it's a cultural expectation, particularly for leaders, that they have to be seen as competent and capable and successful. And I remember when I was pastoring in Toronto, pastoring one of our larger congregations in my denomination, and I was a young buck and a little bit too much full of myself. And I realized that, and one Sunday ended up having to apologize to the congregation for a couple of things that I had said and done. And they weren't moral failures or ethical failures, they were just, unwise things. As I stood at the door and shook hands with the folk as they were leaving, one of my more faithful members said to me, looked at me and she said, Pastor Gyerston, don't you ever do that again. And I said, what do you mean? And she says, don't you ever get up in front and tell us that you failed. She said, I don't want a pastor who is a failure. And so you've got this incredible sense of pressure that's on leaders that I think so often mitigates against us being transparent enough to admit that we are in need of help. You think of Moses, but he had to have Aaron stand on either side of him to hold up his hands. Aaron was the spiritual support. We think he was more of the operational administrative support person. And so, Moses could not have been successful in praying in that successful battle, had it not been for the fact that he admitted he couldn't hold his hands up until the sun went down. Unless a leader is willing to admit that he can't do everything and needs help, the tyranny of failure will be a part of that leader's administrative style. And then he needed people on either side of him to be holding up his hands. And so unless a leader is willing to admit they're in need then there's going to be this how is this tyranny of the fear of failure that's going to be a part of that leader's administrative style. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ As David shared, he has been the President of three different universities. You can only imagine the lessons on board governance, both best practices and some not-so-good that he has observed in working with different board chairs and reporting to different boards. Join us next week as we continue this conversation with David Gyerston.  Our focus will be Board Governance. [00:30:13] Tommy Thomas: Thank you for joining us today. If you are a first-time listener, I hope you will subscribe and become a regular. You can find links to all the episodes on our website: www.jobfitmatters.com/podcast. If there are topics you'd like for me to explore, my email address is tthomas@jobfitmatters.com.   Word of mouth has been identified as the most valuable form of marketing. Surveys tell us that consumers believe recommendations from friends and family over all other forms of advertising. If you've heard something today that's worth passing on, please share it with others. You're already helping me make something special for the next generation of nonprofit leaders. I'll be back next week with a new episode. Until then, stay the course on our journey to help make the nonprofit sector more effective and sustainable.   Links & Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas The Perfect Search – What every board needs to know about hiring their next CEO   Connect tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Follow Tommy on LinkedIn  

 Hear from Former Executive Director of the Jacksonville Rescue Mission, Penny Kievet, as she shares insights on board governance and staffing responsibilities in this episode of the FitFundraising Podcast.   

It is quite the leap to go from in-house counsel to the board of directors. The transferable skills are definitely there, but there are governance essentials you have to practically learn on the job. We talk about this fascinating topic with today's guest. Lisa Hatton Harrington has been Corporate Secretary and Chief Legal Officer to global, publicly traded companies, privately held companies and is on the board of directors of public companies, private companies and several non-profits. In this episode, she shares governance essentials for The Legal Department and also offers tips for landing your first board seat. Tune in!

It's YOUR time to #EdUp! In this episode, recorded LIVE & in person from the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Middle States Commission on Higher Education (MSCHE)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 2023 Annual Conference, in Philadelphia, PA... YOUR guests are Dr. Heather Perfetti, President at MSCHE, and Dr. Davie Gilmour, MSCHE Commission Chair. Drs. Perfetti and Gilmour joined EdUp to talk about the success of the MSCHE conference. They talked about the importance of attendance for MSCHE member schools, why institutional relationships with accreditors help to shape the future of higher education, and why finances should be at the top of the list for any college President. Leadership and Board Governance are a major focus for all! YOUR Guest Co-Host is Deborah Solmor, host of EdUp Legal. YOUR Host is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Dr. Joe Sallustio⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Listen in to #EdUp! Visit MSCHE ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. And visit our sponsor LeadSquared ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Thank YOU so much for tuning in. Join us on the next episode for YOUR time to EdUp! Connect with YOUR EdUp Team - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Elvin Freytes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Dr. Joe Sallustio⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ● Join YOUR EdUp community at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The EdUp Experience⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We make education YOUR business! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/edup/message

In this episode, Madrona Managing Director S. Somasegar and General Counsel Joanna Black discuss the fundamental role of a board in a startup's growth and development. They touch upon the importance of aligning strategic views with board members, managing disagreements, and effective governance to ensure that the organization is run efficiently. The duo offers numerous insights into the intricacies of board structure at different stages of a startup lifecycle, drawing parallels from recent events at OpenAI. The conversation covers the need for transparency, both in sharing good and bad news, and the necessity for a functional board reflecting a functional culture.    (00:00) Introduction (02:12) Differences between Nonprofit and For-profit Boards (03:03 Defining Governance and its Importance (04:20) The Role of a Board in Early-Stage Companies (06:33) Board Evolution with Company Growth (09:09) Choosing the Right Board Members (10:38) Navigating Disagreements and Conflicts within the Board (13:00) The Importance of Transparency and Communication in Board Governance (15:08) Conclusion and Final Thoughts

There was a time when college and university presidents used to boast lengthy terms of service. But today, most leave the position after five to seven years. Higher ed leaders are burning out.  A major contributor to this systemic problem is often a lapse in effective board governance. After faithfully serving in several leadership roles, including as president of three major Christian universities, Dave Gyertson coaches many presidents who question their calling to lead Christian institutions. Dave talks about why boards need to be good stewards of their presidents and monitor their health as well as their performance. Join us as we discuss: - The need for boards to set parameters and guide their presidents (10:45) - The scope of new challenges college presidents face today (14:57) - Why boards need to monitor the president's health (19:07) Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast: - ABHE Board Governance Training  To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website or search for Biblical Higher Ed Talk in your favorite podcast player. Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Who's looking out for your best interesting?For businesses, it's the board of directors. They are a group of people chosen to look after a company and make sure it is being run well.But what happens when a board goes beyond its authority?Find out in the next episode of the Audit Bites podcast.Audit Bites is a podcast that provides valuable insights for internal audit professionals.Mark your calendars and join us live on LinkedIn or YouTube. And hey, don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform.Looking forward to having you on board (pun intended) for the next episode!#internalaudit #auditors #thatauditguy

[00:00:00] John Sommerville: I was talking to somebody recently who was saying that you should never surround yourself with people who are just yes people. And I said to him, you don't want to surround yourself with people who are no people either. What we need is people who really love us and care for us and will do both. They will tell us and give us positive affirmation when we need it, and they will tell us the truth when we need to hear it, even if it's uncomfortable. +++++++++++++++++ [00:00:27] Tommy Thomas: Today, we're continuing the conversation we began last week with John Somerville. John is the Vice President for Finance and Operations and the Chief Financial Officer at The University of Northwestern St. Paul. John has served as the Board Chair at InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and currently serves on the Board of Trustees of Christianity Today. Some things you probably won't learn about John from the internet include he's an avid reader, reading on average 50 plus books a year. He's an avid runner. He's completed six marathons, including the 2019 Boston Marathon, and more than 20 half marathons. And he's the author of Making Room for Christmas, a Collection of 10 Original Christmas stories. John has served in senior leadership with four different organizations and has done a lot of hiring. On the flip side, he has had to release people along the way. I'm always curious about any magic bullets that leaders might have around successful hiring and necessary firing. Let's pick up the conversation there. [00:01:39] Tommy Thomas: Have you got a favorite or a go-to interview question? [00:01:43] John Sommerville: I don't have a question. I have a category of questions. I like to ask behavioral questions. In other words, what did you do? I like to hear what people have done. Now, I don't actually ask many questions like, tell me about yourself, what do you like or what are your qualities. Because I think people can develop answers to those that are not grounded in what they actually are. They're aspirational. They may say, I'm innovative or I'm a strong leader. I like to ask questions about things they've done and hear through that what I think they may do again in the future. [00:02:20] Tommy Thomas: You know I found in my business, it's easier said than done to get a hiring committee to do that. One of my favorite ways of going at that is I tell them to circle the action verbs on somebody's resume and then peel back the layers of the onion. What did that look like? But I never cease to be amazed that people don't want to do that. It's interesting that you develop that early in your career. [00:02:47] John Sommerville: Tommy, one of the things that I've appreciated about you and your organization is these motivated abilities, the kinds of surveys that you do. I think that's really wise because measuring qualities, whether it's introversion and extroversion, whether it's, whatever the test you have, if it just measures things that qualities about a person, you're still not getting at what are they going to do if I give them a job? [00:03:14] Tommy Thomas: So, you've given somebody a job, and for some reason, it didn't work out. What goes into your decision to terminate somebody and maybe what have you found to be the best way to do it? Hire slow, Fire fast! [00:03:26] John Sommerville: I think you hire slow, fire fast. I have to confess that I have found performance improvement plans virtually worthless. In other words, we do them because sometimes maybe we believe we need to do them legally, or in some other way we need to be fair. Maybe we've delayed too long in giving feedback we should have given earlier. I think if I've made any mistake in leadership and managing people over time, it's sometimes I'm too patient. I sometimes assume that this person's going to catch hold, but once we determine as leaders that someone is the wrong fit or doesn't have the abilities I think we need to call it quits. The other thing that I try to discern is their willingness and ability. What is it that is getting in the way? And if it's ability or skills, I'm more willing to be patient and let the person try to give the person the coaching they need. I once worked with someone who was struggling with our boss. And he and I were runners, and we were on a run together and he was complaining to me about our mutual boss and why he didn't get along. And halfway through the run, I said to him, you know what? I said the issue here isn't your ability to do what he wants you to do. It's your willingness. You don't want to do this. You don't like the direction he wants to take your role in the organization. And by the end of the run, he said, you're right. And he began to make a transition out of the organization. Discerning those things is really important. [00:05:00] Tommy Thomas: Let's go back to hiring for a minute. In this litigious world that we live in, what credence or stock do you place in reference checking? [00:05:10] John Sommerville: Some, but people choose who they give you. I try to ask questions that I think can get beyond the surface. In other words, I try actually not to ask as many open-ended questions as you might imagine. And I try to ask questions that get at, have they had conflict with someone? How did they resolve it? Have you watched them fail? And what did you learn from them in that instance? I try to ask questions that are as behavioral as possible and I may ask what are their greatest accomplishments, but also what things didn't they get done for you or what do you think they need to improve on? And sometimes they can't answer because they don't really know. The other thing that I do is if I know anybody who's in any way connected to them. If it's not on the resume, it's not a ref on their reference. I may call them anyway.  I may say hey I'm talking to so and I think you know them. I noticed on LinkedIn you're connected to them. Can you tell me anything about them? I'll go beyond the list of references to find out what I can about people. [00:06:18] Tommy Thomas: Where were you in your career when you felt like you were comfortable in your leadership skin, when you were comfortable that you were a leader? [00:06:28] John Sommerville: I think that I would say that in some ways, I don't know that we should ever get too comfortable. I think I have learned over the years things that I do well and things that I don't do well, and that's become clear over time. And so I would say that I got more comfortable maybe particularly early in the years that I was leading the church that we planted. And I would say during my time at General Mills, I was around a lot of great leaders, and I was young. And so, I probably felt more unsettled, or I was still learning and feeling and learning what I do well. But I've always found that every year I have a new insight, a different way of understanding what it is I do best. Try to do those things as much as I can and things I don't do as well. Try to either work to remediate or try to find somebody else who can complement me in that area. ++++++++++++++++++++ [00:07:22] Tommy Thomas: I'd like to get you to respond to a few quotes and then I want to go over into board work because board work is at the crux of the nonprofit sector. So, here's a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King. The ultimate measure of a person is not where they stand in moments of convenience, but where they stand in moments of challenge, moments of great crisis and controversy. I think that it is easy to lead when things are going well and much more difficult when things are not going well, and I think that we need to learn to be able to lead when we have less than full information, when things are murky. [00:07:47] John Sommerville: I think that it is easy to lead when things are going well and much more difficult when things are not going well, and I think that we need to learn to be able to lead when we have less than full information, when things are murky and sometimes that means pausing and waiting, not making a decision impulsively, and sometimes it means, like I mentioned with the elevator and our president, our division president, you just need to do something. So sometimes leaders have to give direction. You mentioned authenticity earlier. There are times when being too authentic can be unsettling for people. I felt like that at the beginning of COVID. And yet I knew I needed to lead with clarity and direction on what we were going to do as a church. And I'm sure many leaders felt unsettled. The future was not certain. So sometimes it's beginning to move in a direction and then improvise as you go. [00:08:44] Tommy Thomas: Here's one from C. S. Lewis. Pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our consciences, but shouts in our pains.  It's his megaphone to rouse a deaf world. [00:09:02] John Sommerville: One of the things that I've become more grateful for, and this will sound like an oxymoron, but I've become grateful for times of hurt and pain in the sense that they lead us toward growth. And also times when I feel inadequate. One of the things I told my wife a couple of years ago was that I'd gone through a season where I felt I had to live in daily dependence just because of what was going on around me. And I left that season and moved into a time where things felt a lot better. And I told her the one thing I did miss from that difficult time was that sense of dependence, daily dependence I had upon God. And I think that pain focuses us on things that we might need to change. Difficulty drives us to depend upon God. And I think whenever we begin to feel like we're adequate we're putting ourselves in a dangerous place because we're beginning to reassert our own control on living outside of the dependence that we need to have upon God. [00:10:09] Tommy Thomas: Here's one from Rob Hoskins.  He's the CEO of One Hope.  Surround yourself with people who know you better than you know yourself and will tell you the truth out of love. This is how we grow. I was talking to somebody recently who was saying that you should never surround yourself with people who are just yes people.  And I said to him, you don't want to surround yourself with people who are no people either. What we need is, and some of it has to do with people who really love us and care for us and will do both. [00:10:24] John Sommerville: I was talking to somebody recently who was saying that you should never surround yourself with people who are just yes people. And I said to him, you don't want to surround yourself with people who are no people either. What we need is, and some of it has to do with people who really love us and care for us and will do both. They will tell us and give us positive affirmation when we need it, and they will tell us the truth when we need to hear it, even if it's uncomfortable. And we all need people who have permission, and we give permission to speak that way into our lives. We will not grow. We will not have the perspective we need to have if we don't have people like that in our lives. And sometimes our spouses play that role, sometimes another leader, sometimes a friend. And I've had that and try to maintain that in my life all the time. Somebody just that I work with, a peer here, about three weeks ago said, by the way, John, and he then listed something he had observed, and he said, I think you need to do less of that. Absolutely right. And really helpful. [00:11:28] Tommy Thomas: Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they'll surprise you with their ingenuity. General George Patton. [00:11:38] John Sommerville: It's interesting that would come from Patton. My perception of him was he was a pretty directive leader. But I do think that what we need to tell people is what's the outcome we're looking for. There are a lot of different ways to accomplish things. And most of the time if we prescribe it, we may find that we're either thwarting an innovation that we might not have thought of, or we're asking somebody to do something and be a clone. So be very clear about the deliverable, and the outcome that you're looking for, and then let the process unfold. Now, the exception to that is somebody who's brand new. Sometimes what you need to do is do it with them. Watch them do it and then release them to do it. And that may take a little time. [00:12:19] Tommy Thomas: Sticking with our military theme and preparing for battle, I've always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.  President Dwight David Eisenhower. [00:12:31] John Sommerville: Once I had heard someone say that what we ought to develop is not plans, but fuzzy plans. And I think that the principle is what Eisenhower is getting at. And that is that what a plan provides is a general direction, but if you prescribe it as a step one, two, three, like a YouTube video telling you how to replace a lock or something what you'll find is that if you run into a challenge, something's broken or something's not right, then you're stuck. What we need to do is provide general guidance but let that plan unfold and improvise as we go. The best leaders do that in a way where they can lead even in the midst of uncertainty. [00:13:13] Tommy Thomas: When you're sitting around the table with your leadership team, you never want to be the smartest person at the table. [00:13:19] John Sommerville: You know the genius with a thousand helpers, or five helpers eventually will find the limits of their abilities. They'll find the limits of their wisdom but if you create a culture where there is collaboration, even if the leader is the smartest person in the room they are never going to be smart enough to see everything. So there always needs to be an openness to ideas. If you continually squash the ideas of others, you'll not be as effective. I think collaboration, developing diverse teams, and listening before acting is extremely important. [00:13:58] Tommy Thomas: Peter Drucker, the most important thing in communication is to hear what isn't being said. [00:14:06] John Sommerville: I think that's true. I think that this is one of the problems in this soundbite era. When we develop talking points, as we listen to what leaders, organizations and others say they're trying to shape a message. It's important to listen for what's not being said, and this is one of the problems we have, I think, with the lack of sustained reflection that this digital age has led us to, where you can summarize everything in a couple hundred characters, we miss a lot of nuances.  It's important to ask questions that maybe go beyond what's being said. [00:14:41] Tommy Thomas: Problems cannot be solved at the same level of thinking at which they were created. Albert Einstein. [00:14:49] John Sommerville: I've not heard that one before. I don't know what Einstein meant, but I can think of two ways that is true. One is that sometimes the problem is created at a level where there needs to be more detail and more understanding of what really is going on. A quote that I've used a lot and I found to be true is that there is simplicity on the near side of complexity that is overly simplistic. And then there's simplicity on the far side of complexity that takes in account all the complexity and finds a way to work beyond it. It may be that what Einstein's talking about is the idea that sometimes you need to dive deep into the details. And other times you need to lift yourself above the details to be able to see the big picture. And both need to be incorporated into good decision-making. But it's easy to get lost in the trees. And it's sometimes easy also at the same time to maybe lift yourself too high so you don't see. Some of the nuance and the details that are there. +++++++++++++++++ [00:15:49] Tommy Thomas: Let's switch over to board governance and board service. I know you've served on, I won't say countless, but certainly many boards. And I would imagine you've probably chaired two or three of them. When you think of a Board of Directors or Board of Trustees, what's their purpose? The purpose of the Board is to nurture and shepherd the mission of the institution. [00:16:02] John Sommerville: Their purpose is to nurture and shepherd the mission of the institution. And the people who are running the organization need to be managing and leading and all of that. But the board needs to do what it can to make certain that the mission is continuing. There's not mission drift that the organization continues to fulfill its purposes. When they see either a leader leading the organization away from its mission or being ineffective at accomplishing its mission they need to intervene. But they need to be leading at a governance level, making certain that the systems and structures are in place. So, the organization is equipped to accomplish what it needs to accomplish. [00:16:46] Tommy Thomas: When you think of the best board chair you've ever observed or served under, give me some words and phrases that describe that person. [00:16:53] John Sommerville: The people I've seen lead well are very clear about the difference between management and governance. They're very clear about keeping the conversation at the level of mission, vision, and values. They are very good at keeping the organization accountable. Particularly the senior executive. That's the linking pin between the board and the administration. And they are I think relentless about making certain that the board functions really well and doesn't start inserting itself. I've been on a couple of occasions around a board that was really a group of friends who liked hanging out together and they were they weren't paying attention, and then I've been in other boards, and this is probably more common, where they were trying to reach down into management and meddle, and that's ineffective and inappropriate. [00:17:52] Tommy Thomas: Maybe this goes back to your earlier comment you may know Dr. Rebecca Basinger she says, Governing Boards are charged with safeguarding an institution's ability to fulfill its mission with economic vitality. To this I add, responsibility for tending to the soul of the institution. [00:18:12] John Sommerville: I think that I would put it slightly differently. I think that there needs to be a heart in all that we do. This is not original with me, but the idea of orthodoxy. Ortho in Greek is the word for straight, and so orthodoxy is straight doctrine or, right doctrine. And then you often hear people talk about orthopraxy, that there also needs to be these actions that are consistent with your doctrinal position. But the third, which is a neologism, is orthopathy. Path, pathos is the word for passions or even the heart. All three need to be there in an organization. So there needs to be right, if you think about a Christian, we need right doctrine, we need right behavior. And we also need the right heart. And I have been around boards or been around, say, a church board or so, where people had all the right doctrine, they were focused on the right kinds of behavior, but they didn't really have a passion for the church or the ministry that they're leading. All three need to be there and the best boards that I've been around really believe in the mission of the organization, they're clear about the kinds of behaviors they want to see, and they also love it. They just love that organization or that church. And they want to see it achieve what it's meant to achieve. [00:19:37] Tommy Thomas: The Chair and the CEO must learn to dance together, and neither can stray very far from each other's gaze or proceed independently. The Chair and the CEO need to be able to find a balance between the accountability that the chair provides and the nurture and support and really encouragement and having that CEO or that board the organization's president's back. [00:19:49] John Sommerville: I have seen CEOs and Board Chairs have a relationship that is just incredible. And I think that the Chair and the CEO need to be able to find a balance between the accountability that the chair provides and the nurture and support and really encouragement and having that CEO or that board the organization's president's back. Leadership can be lonely, and a board chair can make a significant difference. Now, if the CEO gets out of line, the board chair is going to need to bring that kind of discipline and structure to it, but too many chairs either go to the extreme of not holding the organization leader accountable, but more often what they do is they forget that they need to be that cheerleader, encourager and support to help protect that leader. And I've seen board chairs do that in really effective ways.  [00:20:48] Tommy Thomas: Let's go to board size. This guy, Ernest Happel, said the fewer board members, the better. If it's 18, I'm just not interested. [00:20:56] John Sommerville: I think it depends on the organization, but I do think that there is a critical mass. You can get too small. Four or five, or six is probably too small for most boards in part, because if it has any geographic scope, if it's a national board, you're going to have a few that don't show up each time. But once you get beyond eight or ten, what happens is you think you're increasing participation, but you're actually decreasing participation. Because some people are either quiet or feel ill at ease speaking up when there are twelve or fifteen on a board. So your participation will go down. If you can, eight to 10 is I think the ideal size. Beyond that, I think it's a problem, but there are boards that do that are larger, if the philanthropic needs of the organization if you have people who are significantly investing financially in the organization and want to be active in a positive way. I think boards that are larger, particularly educational institutions tend to have larger boards for that reason. So I would say generally that's true, but not always. +++++++++++++++ [00:22:04] Tommy Thomas: Let's go to succession planning. That's something in my experience that not enough organizations do enough of in a timely way. I recently heard a nonprofit CEO say, “When they want you to stay is the best time to leave”. [00:22:20] John Sommerville: I think that there needs to be constant conversation with the CEO about the future. And sometimes they couch it as if you're hit by a bus, who would you recommend? That's the rudimentary way to approach that. That's really a transitional leader that you identify. But I think once a leader has been in an organization for four or five years there needs to be a beginning conversation about how's your energy. How are you feeling about this? The leader owes the organization enough time and it depends on the size and the mission of the institution, but sometimes that's a year or two years to say, I'm starting to sense from the Spirit that it's time for me to move on. And I'm not sure exactly when that will be. And then you have a conversation that begins to lead toward a transition. An orderly transition is invaluable in an organization when someone abruptly quits and there isn't that time and it's the responsibility of both the chief executive and the board itself to initiate that conversation. It can be hard because sometimes a leader is offended believing that question is coming because the board wants them to move on so it needs to be very carefully broached or vice versa the board believes that this person has lost interest in the job, and there needs to be some dialogue, but that transparency and honesty is both owed to each other.  [00:23:50] Tommy Thomas: Once the decision's been made, from your observation, how much time should go between the announcement and the new person being hired or promoted? [00:24:00] John Sommerville: I think it's different in different organizations. Churches sometimes need a gap, an intentional gap between the previous leader, especially if that person's been there for a long time, whether it's a founding pastor or a long-time successful pastor, there may need to be a gap and an intentional interim can be helpful. That's not always the way it is in para-church organizations and nonprofit organizations. There will need to be a time when you actually start the search. If the leader can stay through a transition, that can be really helpful. But generally, I think it takes about a year to do that process from the time that it's being announced. How long it takes to develop a new position profile and understand what the organization needs of its next leader may be a little different than the current leader. To be able to generate that, to be able to sort through possible candidates and make that it's generally, I would think, a year that's been my observation. [00:24:57] Tommy Thomas: Let's talk about the pros and cons of grooming and promoting from within versus hiring from the outside. See if you can debate both sides of that coin. [00:25:09] John Sommerville: I think the fork in the road has to do with what does the organization need? I do believe that many of the best transitions are internal candidates. They know the organization. If they are ready to take the step of moving up into that senior leader role, they already have trust. They already have experience. They understand things. And that can be, I would often lean in that direction. I think that's often the best way to go. But you can't compromise on what you need out of that next leader. And if that person doesn't exist in the organization, then an external candidate can be important. I think the other thing is if things are going well we definitely would lean toward an internal candidate, but if things have somehow gone off the rails for one reason or another, there's a significant challenge, then sometimes an external leader can be necessary. I will say that my observation is that insiders have a tendency to be slightly more successful than outsiders. There's just something about knowing the organization, both for the leader and for the organization. There's something about that knowledge of who you are and who the organization is that can be more. [00:26:28] Tommy Thomas: What about this idea that the CEO stays around as an emeritus or in some role? [00:26:34] John Sommerville: I'm not a fan of that. I think that that can feel like a cloud over a leader. I have seen cases emeritus. And what they do. I've heard of organizations where the Parachurch organization once I heard about where the previous president came to board meetings and expressed his opinion and the new leader took several years to be able to really assert his leadership. That was not healthy. Generally, I think in a church it's good for a pastor who's leaving to separate and allow the new leader to begin to take the organization in a direction that might be a new direction. And parachurch organizations, I think the same thing. I'm not a fan of that. [00:27:23] Tommy Thomas: Before COVID, I spoke several times to non-profits about succession planning, and one of the areas we talked about was the departing leader. One of my observations is that there's probably a lot more of the departing leader's identity tied up CEO than he or she might realize. Your observations. [00:27:42] John Sommerville: I think that is often true. I think that's a discipleship issue where I think all leaders need to be aware of how much their identity can get wrapped up in what they do, what they achieve, and what they accomplish. And our identity needs to be in Christ. I heard a leader one time say after leaving the organization that he was responsible for, he said, I no longer feel relevant. And I was disappointed to hear that. Now, I'm not judging him. I'm sure that's a process that I'll go through as I move into the next chapter of my life. But I think we need to teach people that they are more than what they do. And I think it's unfortunate if that happens, but I can see as a human we do get identified with what we do.  But it's not healthy most likely. [00:28:37] Tommy Thomas: So, if you get a call this week from somebody in the Twin Cities and they've been encouraged to join a board of a XYZ nonprofit they're coming to you for counsel. What questions are you asking them or what questions do you want to make sure they get answered? [00:28:55] John Sommerville: I would ask them first, is this an organization that you're passionate about? Do you support them financially already? Is this an organization where you respect the leadership? Do you feel like you have something to offer? Is this an organization that you're willing to give a few years to, because sometimes people say, I might do it for a year, just a year, just to figure out the basics of the organization.  I once was asked to join a board and the person who was assigned to be my mentor, I asked him, I said what's required on this board? He said it's really an easy board. He said I get on an airplane, and I read the board book on the way to the meeting. And then you go sit in committee meetings. It's really easy. It's the board I have to invest the least in. And I thought I'm not interested in this. And I found out when I got there that he was an ineffective board member and the best board members were really investing time. Don't go on a board unless you're willing to do some work, unless you're willing to spend the time to give it what it needs. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ [00:30:04] Tommy Thomas: Thank you for joining us today. If you are a first-time listener, I hope you will subscribe and become a regular. You can find links to all the episodes at our website. www.JobfitMatters.com/podcast. If there are topics that you'd like for me to explore my email address is tthomas@jobfitmatters.com.   Word of mouth has been identified as the most valuable form of marketing. Surveys tell us that consumers believe recommendations from friends and family over all other forms of advertising. If you've heard something today that's worth passing on, please share it with others. You're already helping me make something special for the next generation of nonprofit leaders. I'll be back next week with a new episode. Until then stay the course on our journey to help make the nonprofit sector more effective and sustainable.   Links & Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas   Connect tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Follow Tommy on LinkedIn

In this episode you will learn:00:00 - Introduction: The Essence of Startup Board Roles00:34 - Board Governance vs. Decision-Making: An In-depth Exploration00:37 - Understanding the Board of Directors and Their Vital Duties10:25 - The Optimal Timing for Establishing a Business Board16:50 - Defining 'Board Chairperson,' 'Board Observer,' and 'Non-Executive Board Member'22:50 - Founder or Investor as Chair: A Crucial Decision and Its Rationale23:55 - Finding the Right Board Size for Early-Stage Startups and Its Significance27:00 - Strategies for Assembling Your Startup's Dream Board31:40 - Red Flags to Watch Out for When Building Your Board33:30 - Ideal Dynamics Among Board Members: A Guide for Startups36:10 - Effective vs. Ineffective Communication Practices Between Founders and Investors39:55 - Smooth Sailing Through Board Meetings: Best Practices 47:40 - The Mystery of Board Packs and Their PurposeAboutJoe is a coach to CEOs. He works with CEOs at start-ups, high growth to IPO to public companies to the big exit; helping define what it means to be a leader, how to create impact, how to grow alongside the business and how to change the world all while enjoying every part of that journey. Joe is a recovering neuroscientist, then a spell as an elementary school teacher as well as 15 years in tech, $20b in revenue, experience with 30+ startups & FTSE / Fortune 100 giants.

Another year, another survey of board directors. Does this one show us anything new? Earlier this year, the Global Network of Director Institutes released their “The Future of Board Governance” report. The GNDI is a collection of 24 national governance institutes from North and South America, Asia Pacific, Europe, Africa and the Middle East, with combined memberships of 150,000. In this episode, Paul briefly covers the main findings of the report and the implications for boards and companies. 

This podcast covers the following subjects: - How can small business owners maximize profits? - Small business owners maximize profits - Maximize small business profits Mostly all small businesses have faced cash flow issues or are continually facing cash flow issues. However, most of them are leaving much-needed cash on the table unnecessarily. Whether it shortchanging yourself on the revenue side or letting money fall through the cracks on the expense side the result is the same, less cash available to run your business and lost personal income. I'll be talking with Phillip D. Woolfolk about strategies for how small business owners can Stop Leaving so much Money on the Table.Prior to transitioning to Chief Operations Officer of the African American Chamber of Commerce of New Jersey, (AACCNJ) Phillip D. Woolfolk served as Managing Principal and Sr. Profitability Advisor for Main Street Advisory, LLC. The services of Main Street Advisory continue through strategic partners. Phillip acquired years of expertise in the private and public finance sectors including Commercial Lending, Small Business & Residential Mortgage Lending, Sales and Operations Management, Strategic Planning, Board Governance, Real Estate Finance, and Public & Private School Fiscal Management and Budgeting. His acquired expertise will be focused on increasing the capacity of the chamber in small business lending, pre-loan and post-loan technical assistance to Black Business Enterprises (BBEs) https://www.linkedin.com/in/pwoolfolk/

[00:00:00] Tommy Thomas: A strong board of directors is essential to the success of any non-profit organization. The board of directors plays a critical role in providing guidance, oversight, and support for the organization's mission and operations.   There is no cookie-cutter or one-size-fits-all when it comes to Nonprofit Board Governance and Board Service.  However, there is a lot we can learn from people who are active on the Boards of high impact and highly effective nonprofit organizations.   Over the past 104 issues, we have devoted a lot of time to this topic.  From time to time, we will highlight excerpts from some of these conversations.   Today is the 3rd time we are compiling these excerpts.  I will have links to the previous two episodes in the Episode Notes.   Christin McClave has over 20 years of corporate leadership, beginning her career with Johnson & Johnson and serving in senior leadership in her family's large automotive aftermarket business – Cardone Industries.  Christin has served on and continues to serve on several nonprofit and corporate Boards. I've been in this business a long time and I've worked with probably 300 or 400 boards, over the last 30 years. And if I look at them, I would say a lot of the time they're males. They might be closer to my age than your age. And now things are changing. So, what are you seeing, or maybe what are you doing to lower the mean age on a board and to maybe bring more gender and ethnic diversity?  [00:01:43] Christin McClave:  So, I think we see a lot of changes in the general demographics, right?  As our society and culture are changing. The positive thing is there's so much more diversity coming up through the leadership ranks. And I think the traditional way that we've, I'll say we, because I've done it myself as well, when we've needed a new board member on a board, I instantly think about who have I worked with before? Who's like me, who thinks like me, who would be easy to plug and play into this board that I'm on? And so that's been our traditional way of pipelining onto boards. Let's find people who we know and who we know could be very quickly successful and contribute value to this board. I think what we've learned over the last couple years is that doesn't necessarily bring diversity to these boards that we are trying to diversify. And we've seen the pressure coming from the public sector the SEC, not quite regulations, but suggestions that we need a certain percentage of diversity on the public boards. And there's a lot of pressure in the market for that. And then that has trickled down its way to nonprofits and to the private sector. So, everyone is looking to diversify their boards at this point. And I think, a key piece of the job requirements that we have in the past always assumed on larger boards, I'll say. And most boards in general, everybody's wanted, okay you need to have a CEO or CFO or a C level executive. But preferably a CEO or CFO who's been in the chair before. And I've had people say that to me as well, that's what they're looking for. And I think we know just from sheer data that a lot of women and diverse candidates in general haven't had those opportunities. We are definitely developing that pipeline now and being very much more intentional. But I think like through the past few years and now looking at the talent market being as hot as it is and the demand for diverse talent we have, we are at the place we need to take a look at those very narrow criteria that we've said, oh, you have to be a C-level executive to be on a board and to be able to contribute value. And I think, now I've seen a lot more being written, a lot more being talked about, diversity coming onto boards where I'm reading someone's background and I'm like, wow, that is so cool. Maybe 10 years ago that person wouldn't have been chosen for that very significant board seat. So, I think we've opened up our criteria and have opened up our thought process and how we see people's experiences. We're looking at people's resumes really differently these days. From an HR perspective in internal, when we're screening candidates we took the requirement of having a college degree off of our requirements, probably, about 10 years ago, which was a little bit ahead of our time, but it just opened up our talent pool and we realized there are a lot of people out there that may not have a bachelor's degree but are way more experienced with their life and work experience that we were not being able to tap into because we had that very strict requirement. So, I think we're seeing that across the board at all levels, including at the board level. +++++++++++++++++++++++ [00:05:34] Tommy Thomas: Alvin Sanders, President & CEO of World Impact, a nonprofit that focuses on redemptive poverty and cultural proficiency in the urban community.  Alvin and his Board are huge proponents of the Policy Governance Model - an integrated board leadership paradigm created by Dr. John Carver.   I'm asking people these days about bringing younger people onto boards. And philosophically, do you have a position on that? And then I'll ask a follow up.  [00:06:10] Alvin Sanders: Yes, we try to hold it at nine, because we think a smaller board is better for getting things done. And I think in terms of thirds, a third of our board, we want gender diversity, a third of our board, we want age diversity, a third of our board, we want racial diversity. And then we want half and half, what I would say, marketplace people. These are business folk, and then the other half ministry people. Because if you have all marketplace people, the ministry gets lost. It's been my experience. And if you have all ministry people, the business of running the organization gets lost and it loses knowledge and expertise. So that's my philosophy of how you have you bring a board together. But you definitely need people, especially since I just read the other day that millennials now are the most dominant generation numbers wise. It's no longer Baby Boomers. It's never been my generation, Gen X. We're the forgotten generation, I think. Nobody gives a rip about Gen X, but Millennials now are it and you're just being silly if you don't have Millennials on your board. ++++++++++++++++++ [00:07:23] Tommy Thomas: Caryn Ryan, Managing Director at MissionWell, an organization that provides financial and strategic counsel to nonprofit organizations. Caryn is the former CFO for BP/Amoco and World Vision International.  She currently serves on corporate and nonprofit Boards.   I want to ask you one question then I'll close. So, my next to the last question has to do with succession planning and the board. At what point should that begin to occur? And how does the board address that without the CEO thinking “I'm a short-timer”? [00:08:04] Caryn Ryan: Okay. Yeah, that's great.  I'm dealing with that right now at one of the boards that I sit on. And I've just dealt with that last year as well. And it works both ways if it works all, all different ways. So let me just talk about one where the CEO does get the feeling. If you have this conversation that they're a short timer. I want to just say first of all, that can sometimes go back to the trust issue again, right? When there's a lack of trust between the board and the CEO then, and you bring up the succession of the question of succession planning, the first thing that goes of course into the CEO's mind is, oh, I'm getting fired.  I'm a short termer here.  So that has to again, be addressed, the trust issue, before you can have productive conversations around succession planning. But even longer term issues are going to take some time to get resolved. There's something you can always do on the succession plan that's very short term and that every single board must have in place. And that is you need a succession plan in case of an emergency. If your CEO becomes ill is hit by a bus, or whatever, you need an emergency succession plan that is an interim structure or very well thought through way that you'll manage in the absence of the CEO.  And usually, it's not going to bring out the same negative feeling for the CEO.  On the part of the CEO because they understand that, oh yeah, if I'm not there, we need to have some interim structure. And so, they'll begin helping the Board and thinking through, look, okay, if something happens to me, let's make this person on our staff the interim, or let's pull this Board Member out and see if they'll be the interim. Or they'll start to engage in the ideas for how that could work in interim a structure. And as long as you can get that interim structure put in place and everybody's in agreement that it's workable, that then gives a chance during the interim structure for the Board to go out and begin doing a search to find a replacement candidate. Regarding succession planning for a Founder – S/he just might not be willing to step aside. They might have created a whole lack of number twos in the organization who can step in, even in an emergency. It just may not be anybody. So that's a different situation where the board needs to probably, in addition to working on trust, which can be very difficult with the founder. You might be off the board if you start having those kind of conversations. But what you can do as a board is do your research. How would you do a search? You can get your research done on executive search firms who could step in and help you. You can just keep in mind, and Tommy, you're the one who should be telling your podcast listeners this, but it's a long process to do a search. You've got to set up a search committee. You got to figure out how you're going to recruit the person. You've got to have an approach. You have to execute it, you have to review the candidates. It's just really time consuming. You at least have to think through all of these, how that's a minimum thing, even if it's a founder situation. I'd say two things. Number one, for sure, have an interim emergency succession plan, no questions asked. That's an absolute minimum mandate for every board. And number two, if you're on a founder board, you have to do some special extra work along the side with networking, quiet networking, just to figure out the process and figure out how you would do, how would you do that if something did happen to your founder, if your founder's not willing to participate or help with that.  Does that make sense?  ++++++++++++++ [00:11:33] Tommy Thomas: Rich Stearns, President Emeritus at World Vision US.  Prior to joining World Vision, Rich was CEO for multiple organizations in the private sector, thus reporting to their Boards.  He cut his teeth on nonprofit Board Governance as President of World Vision US.   When I interviewed you back in 2017 you mentioned that from your perspective, the best thing that the World Vision Board did for you when you came on was you recalled an offsite retreat where y'all got introduced to each other. Could you share a little bit about that with us? I think we probably have a lot of up and coming CEOs listening and that might be an interesting discussion. [00:12:14] Rich Stearns: Yeah, I don't know how much that costs. Probably not much, but it was the best money World Vision ever spent. When I came into World Vision the Board and the CEO had what I'd call a turbulent relationship. He wasn't thrilled about his board and the way they behaved, and the Board wasn't thrilled about him in certain ways. And so, I was coming into kind of a troubled marriage, right? You could say there'd been a divorce, and I'm the new husband coming in. And so, the Board had enough wisdom to say, you know what, we should start off on the right foot here. Why don't we hire a board consultant to come in and do a two-day retreat with a new CEO to teach the Board and the new CEO, how best they should interact and communicate with one another. So, a friend of yours and mine named Bob Andringa, he's retired now, but he was in the Board consulting business. He's written at least one book, if not several. He came in and he conducted a Board Governance 101, 102 course for all of us. And gave us tools to use and dealt with different scenarios of here are the dos and don'ts for Board Members. Here are the dos and don'ts for the staff and the CEO. Here is the best way to understand your responsibility as Board Members. This is what your responsibility is, and this is what your responsibility is not. This is the role you play. This is the role you don't play. And same with a CEO, Rich, your role is this the board's role is to establish policy. I guess the best way to say it is it laid down the ground rules for a healthy relationship. And I don't think it's an exaggeration to say I had a 20-year honeymoon with my board. Not that there weren't an occasional, marital argument over the years. But it was like a 20-year honeymoon with the board. And I respected them, they respected me. My staff, when I first started, after a year, they said, boy, you've had a one-year honeymoon with this board. It's amazing. Because they'd seen some of the dysfunction in the prior years. And 20 years later, they were still saying you're still on your honeymoon. And I in terms of my response, what I attribute it to, is what I talked about earlier, Tommy, that the board knew they could trust me. I would never tell them a lie. I would never hide anything. I was completely transparent. Anything they wanted to talk about at a board meeting, we could talk about. Any numbers they wanted to see, we'd show them. If I had some bad numbers, I'd bring them to the board and say, look, this is not good, and here's what we're going to do.  They never felt I was hiding anything. And so that created trust as well. [00:15:03] Tommy Thomas: One of the guys that you've influenced over the years is Joe Mettimano at Central Union Mission. And when I interviewed Joe there, he talked about a lesson he learned from you about the president's report to the board. He would attribute part of his success to what he learned from you there. Tell us about that. [00:15:22] Rich Stearns: I started every board meeting with a president's report. So, the Board is gathered, in the case of World Vision they've flown in from all over the country, and here they are at the World Vision board meeting and remember, they're all volunteers, some are pastors, some are business people.  They're from all walks of life and so I tried to use the President's Report to basically bring them up to speed on what was going on at World Vision. What were the important issues? What were we doing about the important issues? How are the finances doing? I tried to answer as many questions as they might have in advance. Because the rest of the board meeting, the finance committee was going to meet and other committees were going to meet. And I tried to use the President's Report to cast a bit of a vision for where we were as an organization, where we're headed, what my outlook was for the coming year or the coming quarter. And I try to use the Board Meeting to really cast a vision to remind them of the mission of World Vision. Often, I would start with a trip report. I've just gotten back from the Syrian refugee crisis, and I want to tell you what I saw. I would remind them, we're sitting here in a nice boardroom, but people are dying all over the world. And our job is to intercede for them to help them to rescue those who are perishing as the book of Proverbs says. And so, trying to remind them why they were here, why World Vision was here and then look under the hood at, the financials, the numbers, the revenues, the overhead, and you had to deal with issues like real estate transactions and mundane stuff like that. I wanted to always to put it in the context of the bigger mission, vision and values of the organization. My President's Report would sometimes go 90 minutes to two hours which is a lot. But usually, the board would say that was the highlight of the meeting because that really brought them up to date on everything. +++++++++++++++= [00:17:16] Tommy Thomas: Paul Maurer, President at Montreat College.  Paul is a student of Board Governance and identifies as a “governance nerd”.  Paul is on his second college presidency and has learned a lot – some through the school of hard knocks about effective Board Governance.   And a lot of people that I talk with, there's a move toward lowering the mean age of the board and increasing diversity. What kind of experience have y'all had at Montreat around those issues? [00:17:45] Paul Maurer: We're intentionally trying to increase diversity. We've not found that to be an easy pathway, but we are we are committed to it. And on age I would just gently push back on the median age lowering. I'm very much of the Aristotelian camp that young people have less wisdom. And part of what you want for board members is wisdom. Wisdom comes with experience, and experience comes with age and the hard knocks of life and just the journey of life with gray hair and getting beat up occasionally. And I want younger people on the board, but that's less common. They're actually very hard to get on the board because they're less qualified candidates in my view, and they're uber busy with career and family. So, the young members, the 30 somethings, I have on my board, I have two of them. They're like up to their eyeballs, four or five kids each, they're CEOs or leaders in their own rights and rising in the ranks. And these people have large portfolios and enormous demands on their time. Then my 70- and 80-year-olds, and I even have a 91-year-old board member who I recruited at the age of 87. And he said to me, he said, Paul, what if I die? And I said, Bill what if I die? We're all going to die. You've got a lot of gas left in your tank. You've got enormous amount of wisdom. And you may have others who think that you're too old to be a board member. I don't think that at all. And if a day should come when your health has slipped, your metro capacities have slipped, we'll have that conversation and we'll have it openly and honestly. Honestly the seventies, eighties, and 90-year-old trustees I have are easily among my best trustees. They're phenomenal. [00:20:04] Tommy Thomas: Let's change over a little bit to the board aspect of being a president. What was the biggest adjustment that you had to make between, say, reporting to the CEO as a cabinet member and then as the President reporting to the Board? [00:20:20] Paul Maurer: Yeah, it's a great question. I'm a bit of a governance nerd. I really think about and study governance. I did that in my doctoral work. I do it as a college president in nonprofit governance. And so, the president needs clarity. What is the role of the board? What is the role of the president? What's the role of the relationship and what's the role of everyone else on campus in relationship to the board? And so, in the world of board governance, there are working boards and there are policy boards. Startups tend to have working boards, like true startups, like really small organizations. More established organizations. If they haven't transitioned to a policy board, they probably ought to consider doing so. Because you don't really want a board involved in the operations of an organization. And so, I'm deeply grateful that my board gave me the lead role in board development, meaning recruitment of new board members, training of board, the board policy manual. And we have a great board today, and they really understand that the board should not be involved in operations. That's the CEO's job but should be sure that they're being fiduciaries, that they're making sure there's a strategic plan that's being carried out their success along the way and that they manage or evaluate. They don't manage, they evaluate the presidents. They hire and fire the president, the CEO. I do think that my argument would be that it's more important for a President to be a CEO than a President. The President is, as I think of a bit of an old model for college leadership, it's rooted in what I think is not a very useful model of shared governance. I think the CEO is a better model, but you also need a CEO who's sensitive to campus dynamics and the idea that consensus really matters. And a consensus building CEO I think is the best model, but I think that the CEO also needs to be the CUO - the Chief Urgency Officer. Because things are changing so fast.    Links & Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Two Previous Best of Board Governance Episodes:  2023 – Best of Board Service Part 1 2023 – Best of Board Service Part 2 Episodes Featuring These Excerpts Christin McClave – Insights into Board Governance Rich Stearns – President Emeritus World Vision US – An Inauspicious Leadership Journey – Part 2 Alvin Sanders – Board Governance Caryn Ryan – Board Governance Paul Maurer – Board Governance   Connect tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Follow Tommy on LinkedIn