Podcast appearances and mentions of Joseph Peterson

 In this Thelema NOW episode, Harper interviews Joseph Peterson, about "Mysteriorum Libri Quinque: Dr. John Dee's Five Books of Mysteries." This book from the 16th century, remains to this day one of the most important core texts of occult literature and a comprehensive guide to Enochian magic, encompassing language, symbolism, rituals, and practical techniques. This deluxe Weiser Ankh edition is a compilation of John Dee's secret spiritual treatises and was prepared from the original manuscript (preserved in the British Library) in Dee's own handwriting. These secret writings were discovered long after John Dee's death (c. 1609); they had been tucked away in a hidden compartment of an old wooden chest and were remarkably spared from destruction—uncovered only a few years before the Great Fire of London in 1666. In these five secret treatises, John Dee, one of the most renowned scholars of the Elizabethan era, records in minute detail his research into the occult. Joseph discusses working with damaged manuscripts, Dee's Biblical references, and Divine Revelation. They also mention Esoeric Archives, which you can access here. Check it out!

Cory Armand, Joseph Peterson, and Deena Johnson are rebuilding their city one house at a time. The trio of private investors has renovated more than 80 homes, more than the 48 the local government recently tore down in a neighborhood, and the 16 apartments in the city's downtown area. We talk with the trio about their strategies and they share their advice. Read More: Three Young Renovators Who Are Rebuilding Their City Note: Young and the three guests are members of the Northwest Indiana Creative Investors Association (NICIA). Joseph serves as President, Cory as Vice President, and Deana as Programming. Episode 43 --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/port-of-harlem-podcasts/support

A conversation with Joseph Peterson, an Edward Jones Financial Advisor serving Amarillo, and the city's 2023 Black Man of the Year. Born in Birmingham, Alabama, Peterson moved with his family to Amarillo when he was a child. He played football for WTAMU before opening his office in Amarillo. Since then, he's built a reputation for community involvement, from membership in 101 Elite Men to service on municipal boards to volunteerism for the United Way of Amarillo & Canyon and other nonprofits. Peterson shares with host Jason Boyett about his career path, why he chose to live and work in Amarillo, and why civic engagement is so important to him. This episode is sponsored by Jimmy John's and SKP Creative.

Reid's longtime friend Joseph Peterson joins from his farm in Nez Perce, ID to explore several philosophical aspects of hunting. Joseph has been a guide for both wingshooting and big game for more than 30 years, and has hunted across the globe. He is a consummate outdoorsman, and one who reflects continually on the scope of what it means to be a hunter. The two explore ethics and etiquette, the role of preserves and pen-raised birds, and the past/future of North American hunting.

Show Summary . God, Slow Me Down, Part Two . This was the prayer Joseph prayed to God. He had asked God to slow him down just before this, so he knew something was coming. In this second part Pastor Joseph goes deeper into his story and then brings it full circle to God's protection, guidance in the midst of searching, and ultimately sharing the gospel and starting revival in prisons. . You don't want to miss this two-part series that will have you all over the map. . I love Joseph. We became good friends after serving time in prison together. He was the pastor of our inmate-led church. He started it with a handful of men on the rec yard and finally they gave him a classroom due to the gathering on the rec yard. . When he made parole he handed the preaching duties over to me but I quickly asked others to preach too. Since he's been out, he's gotten married, found so much favor in his career, and started Right On Point Ministries which has a huge impact on the Kingdom of God. Follow him on facebook at the link below or visit his church if you. are in Houston. . Resources Mentioned in the Show: . Right On Point Ministries: 8951 S Ruthby Ste 2, Houston, TX 77061 . Joseph's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fisherman.fish.14 . Union Houston: https://www.unionhouston.com/ . Clarity Roofing and Solar: Call Today 972-922-6434 https://www.clarityroofingandsolar.com/ . Write Background Check Podcast and Forgiven Felons: PO Box 4283 Cedar Hill, TX 75106 . Watch the Forgiven Felons Documentary: https://therokuchannel.roku.com/details/7abf5e84134e54a394b5b42544c08caa/forgiven-felons/season-1 . How to get more involved with Forgiven Felons: . Leave a review and subscribe on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/background-check-podcast/id1515831127 . Learn about our Future Plans: https://www.forgivenfelons.org/future-plans . Give to our organization: https://www.forgivenfelons.org/support Follow Forgiven Felons on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

Show Summary . Something's About to Happen Part One . This was the phrase Joseph kept hearing one day in his head. He had asked God to slow him down just before this, so he knew something was coming. In this first part Pastor Joseph and I talk about our time at Lockhart together, his upbringing, and how got caught up in the cartel. . You don't want to miss this two-part series that will have you all over the map. . I love Joseph. We became good friends after serving time in prison together. He was the pastor of our inmate-led church. He started it with a handful of men on the rec yard and finally they gave him a classroom due to the gathering on the rec yard. . When he made parole he handed the preaching duties over to me but I quickly asked others to preach too. Since he's been out, he's gotten married, found so much favor in his career, and started Right On Point Ministries which has a huge impact on the Kingdom of God. Follow him on facebook at the link below or visit his church if you. are in Houston. . Resources Mentioned in the Show: . Right On Point Ministries: 8951 S Ruthby Ste 2, Houston, TX 77061 . Joseph's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fisherman.fish.14 . Union Houston: https://www.unionhouston.com/ . Clarity Roofing and Solar: Call Today 972-922-6434 https://www.clarityroofingandsolar.com/ . Write Background Check Podcast and Forgiven Felons: PO Box 4283 Cedar Hill, TX 75106 . Watch the Forgiven Felons Documentary: https://therokuchannel.roku.com/details/7abf5e84134e54a394b5b42544c08caa/forgiven-felons/season-1 . How to get more involved with Forgiven Felons: . Leave a review and subscribe on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/background-check-podcast/id1515831127 . Learn about our Future Plans: https://www.forgivenfelons.org/future-plans . Give to our organization: https://www.forgivenfelons.org/support . Follow Forgiven Felons on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

Author Joseph Peterson joins Rick Kogan in studio to discuss his 9th book, “Memorandum From the Iowa Cloud Appreciation Society.” Joseph shares his experience of owning a zine, which authors influenced him, and more!

In many ways, Arbatel is unique among texts on magic. Unlike the vast majority of writings, it is clear, concise, and elegantly written. The practical instructions are straightforward and undemanding. When it first appeared in 1575, it attracted the attention of people with a surprisingly broad range of agendas, including some of the finest minds of the time. Often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." Arbatel's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. In fact, to the author this virtually defines the magus. Included are illustrations, bibliography, index, and original Latin text. Arbatel, which first appeared in 1575, is often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." It's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. Joseph H. Peterson has translated many esoteric and religious sourceworks. He has amassed a large collection of copies of rare and occult tracts for comparative research from the British Library and other institutions.*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com

Welcome back everybody, join mom and I today as we walk you through the senseless murder of Joseph Peterson who was killed while trying to help a friend in need. We may never know the motivation behind this shocking crime but let us know what you think happened by reaching out on social mediahttps://www.facebook.com/northernnightmarespodhttps://www.patreon.com/northernnightmaresnorthernnightmarespod@gmail.comhttps://twitter.com/nn_podhttps://www.instagram.com/northernnightmarespodcast/@northernnightmarespod on Tik Tok for 3 minute one part videos about content covered fully here on the podcastConsider buying us a coffee! A small one time donation without any subscription necessary!https://www.buymeacoffee.com/northernnightSOURCEShttps://www.alaskasnewssource.com/content/news/After-over-a-year-investigators-arrest-man-in-Alaska-village-for-murder-472364413.htmlhttps://www.kdlg.org/crime/2018-02-01/ole-shangin-arrested-on-murder-charges-related-to-joseph-petersons-deathhttps://www.kdlg.org/crime/2016-07-20/authorities-investigate-shooting-death-in-ivanof-bayhttps://alaska-native-news.com/troopers-make-arrest-in-july-17th-ivanoff-bay-murder-case/32865/https://apnews.com/article/b5c0062d2bbf4d66a3cb4dbd90005455https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/adn/name/joseph-peterson-obituary?id=14349764https://gunmemorial.org/2016/07/17/joseph-petersonSupport the show

We talk to an old friend from Maui, James Peterson. James now lives in Vegas. His mom has Alzheimers and has a final wish: To find her homeless, lost son, Joe, and reconnect with him. He was last seen in Redding California. James takes the search for Joseph Mark Peterson to you, our listeners of The Jeremiah Show Listen to the inspiring true story. If you have any information on Joe Mark Peterson, please contact me or James Peterson on Facebook Messenger, or email me at jeremiah@thejeremiahshow.com

On today's episode, Editor in Chief Sarah Wheeler talks with HW+ Managing Editor Brena Nath about the May issue of the HousingWire Magazine, which featured a cover story on the winners of HousingWire's Finance Leaders awards. The two discuss winners, spotlighting Chryssa Halley, CFO at Fannie Mae, Victoria DeLuce, EVP at Princeton Mortgage, and Joseph Peterson, CFO at Sagent. The two also discuss the articles and commentaries on appraisals in the May issue and the Kudos article on Total Expert.HW Media articles related to this episode:Introducing the 2022 Finance Leaders!What permanent desktop appraisals mean for the industry

I was honored to be invited onto Kings and Queens, a podcast hosted by Joseph & Nicole Peterson, to talk about Jesus through a trans lens! The full episode is over on their podcast and includes more of my own personal story as well. For more about the Petersons, visit www.thepetersons.cc. For a transcript of this episode, click here. Talking Points: (0:00 - 3:30) Intro (3:30 - 11:28) Pastoring people into conversations about trans Jesus — why does the idea shock or offend many people? Normativity conflated with morality (11:29 - 14:18) Ideas of gender in Jesus's time and place; Jesus's gender nonconformity: no wife and kids; Mother Hen (14:19 - 19:35) Jesus closeted, coming out; his deep desire to be known by those he loves (19:36 - 23:40) Eunuch Jesus! — happily accepts association with those his world called sexually deviant; reclaiming slurs like eunuch or queer (23:41 - end) Jesus's transition story: genderless divinity entering finite humanity, assigned male at birth Further Reading: - blessedarethebinarybreakers.com/nt — "Assigned Male at Incarnation: An Intersex and Transgender Jesus" - https://blessedarethebinarybreakers.tumblr.com/tagged/trans+jesus — varied posts about Jesus being trans - Ep 40 of this podcast — "Goodness Embodied: An Intersex, Nonbinary First Human & a Disabled Risen Christ" - Ep 32 of this podcast — "A Queer Nativity: God's transition; Mary's trans-gressive yes; and Joseph's trans-formation into an ally" - Some of Avery's liturgy and poetry that speaks to a transgender Jesus — https://binarybreakingliturgy.com/?s=trans+jesus - Short sermon on trans Jesus — https://a-queer-seminarian.tumblr.com/post/166432404438/i-was-happy-to-be-part-of-this-years-lpts-more - Chris Paige's book OtherWise Christian ____ Blessed Are the Binary Breakers is part of the Rock Candy Podcast Network. Find more shows at www.rockcandyrecordings.com.

In many ways, Arbatel is unique among texts on magic. Unlike the vast majority of writings, it is clear, concise, and elegantly written. The practical instructions are straightforward and undemanding. When it first appeared in 1575, it attracted the attention of people with a surprisingly broad range of agendas, including some of the finest minds of the time. Often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." Arbatel's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. In fact, to the author this virtually defines the magus. Included are illustrations, bibliography, index, and original Latin text. Arbatel, which first appeared in 1575, is often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." It's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. Joseph H. Peterson has translated many esoteric and religious sourceworks. He has amassed a large collection of copies of rare and occult tracts for comparative research from the British Library and other institutions.*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com

In many ways, Arbatel is unique among texts on magic. Unlike the vast majority of writings, it is clear, concise, and elegantly written. The practical instructions are straightforward and undemanding. When it first appeared in 1575, it attracted the attention of people with a surprisingly broad range of agendas, including some of the finest minds of the time. Often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." Arbatel's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. In fact, to the author this virtually defines the magus. Included are illustrations, bibliography, index, and original Latin text. Arbatel, which first appeared in 1575, is often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." It's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. Joseph H. Peterson has translated many esoteric and religious sourceworks. He has amassed a large collection of copies of rare and occult tracts for comparative research from the British Library and other institutions. *** AND NOW *** The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.com The ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free) To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com

In many ways, Arbatel is unique among texts on magic. Unlike the vast majority of writings, it is clear, concise, and elegantly written. The practical instructions are straightforward and undemanding. When it first appeared in 1575, it attracted the attention of people with a surprisingly broad range of agendas, including some of the finest minds of the time. Often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." Arbatel's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. In fact, to the author this virtually defines the magus. Included are illustrations, bibliography, index, and original Latin text. Arbatel, which first appeared in 1575, is often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." It's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. Joseph H. Peterson has translated many esoteric and religious sourceworks. He has amassed a large collection of copies of rare and occult tracts for comparative research from the British Library and other institutions. *** AND NOW *** The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.com The ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free) To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com

In many ways, Arbatel is unique among texts on magic. Unlike the vast majority of writings, it is clear, concise, and elegantly written. The practical instructions are straightforward and undemanding. When it first appeared in 1575, it attracted the attention of people with a surprisingly broad range of agendas, including some of the finest minds of the time. Often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." Arbatel's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. In fact, to the author this virtually defines the magus. Included are illustrations, bibliography, index, and original Latin text. Arbatel, which first appeared in 1575, is often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." It's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. Joseph H. Peterson has translated many esoteric and religious sourceworks. He has amassed a large collection of copies of rare and occult tracts for comparative research from the British Library and other institutions.*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Zone TV Channel Radio Feed (Free - No Subscription Required) - https://www.spreaker.com/show/xztv-the-x-zone-tv-show-audio The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com (Free)To contact Rob McConnell - misterx@xzoneradiotv.com

In many ways, Arbatel is unique among texts on magic. Unlike the vast majority of writings, it is clear, concise, and elegantly written. The practical instructions are straightforward and undemanding. When it first appeared in 1575, it attracted the attention of people with a surprisingly broad range of agendas, including some of the finest minds of the time. Often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." Arbatel's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. In fact, to the author this virtually defines the magus. Included are illustrations, bibliography, index, and original Latin text. Arbatel, which first appeared in 1575, is often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." It's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. Joseph H. Peterson has translated many esoteric and religious sourceworks. He has amassed a large collection of copies of rare and occult tracts for comparative research from the British Library and other institutions, which he shares at his award-winning websites www.esotericarchives.com ****************************************************************** To listen to all our XZBN shows, with our compliments go to: https://www.spreaker.com/user/xzoneradiotv *** AND NOW *** The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.com The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com ******************************************************************

In many ways, Arbatel is unique among texts on magic. Unlike the vast majority of writings, it is clear, concise, and elegantly written. The practical instructions are straightforward and undemanding. When it first appeared in 1575, it attracted the attention of people with a surprisingly broad range of agendas, including some of the finest minds of the time. Often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." Arbatel's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. In fact, to the author this virtually defines the magus. Included are illustrations, bibliography, index, and original Latin text. Arbatel, which first appeared in 1575, is often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." It's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. Joseph H. Peterson has translated many esoteric and religious sourceworks. He has amassed a large collection of copies of rare and occult tracts for comparative research from the British Library and other institutions, which he shares at his award-winning websites www.esotericarchives.com ****************************************************************** To listen to all our XZBN shows, with our compliments go to: https://www.spreaker.com/user/xzoneradiotv *** AND NOW *** The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.com The ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com ******************************************************************

In many ways, Arbatel is unique among texts on magic. Unlike the vast majority of writings, it is clear, concise, and elegantly written. The practical instructions are straightforward and undemanding. When it first appeared in 1575, it attracted the attention of people with a surprisingly broad range of agendas, including some of the finest minds of the time. Often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." Arbatel's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. In fact, to the author this virtually defines the magus. Included are illustrations, bibliography, index, and original Latin text. Arbatel, which first appeared in 1575, is often quoted and reprinted, both praised and condemned, its impact on western esoteric philosophy has been called "overwhelming." It's magic is full of wonder and free from the sinister elements usually associated with texts on the subject. But it is about more than magic; filled with gnomic wisdom, it urges us to help our neighbors, be positive and grateful, and use time wisely. Above all, it teaches us to pay attention, looking for the wondrous and miraculous. Joseph H. Peterson has translated many esoteric and religious sourceworks. He has amassed a large collection of copies of rare and occult tracts for comparative research from the British Library and other institutions, which he shares at his award-winning websites www.esotericarchives.com******************************************************************To listen to all our XZBN shows, with our compliments go to: https://www.spreaker.com/user/xzoneradiotv*** AND NOW ***The ‘X' Zone TV Channel on SimulTV - www.simultv.comThe ‘X' Chronicles Newspaper - www.xchroniclesnewspaper.com ******************************************************************

Meet Joseph Peterson by New Community Church of Spokane

“Value my life as a human being. Cry when you see harm done to a person that looks like me, and do your best to stand beside me.” The murder of George Floyd has sparked national protests across the United States and an unprecedented conversation about race. Against this tragic backdrop, African-American residents of Amarillo share their experiences, their emotions, and their longing for change. Guests include Bowden Jones Jr., Jasmine Taylor, Joseph Peterson, Lia Warren, David Lovejoy and Patrick Miller.

Built in 1836 by Joseph Peterson the Peterson-Dumesnil House is thought to be one of the most haunted places in Louisville, Kentucky. The Lady in White is supposedly roaming the halls of the house and allegedly helped a little girl who got separated from her mother in the 1980s. Join us as we take a closer look at the ghosts and paranormal activity in the historic antebellum mansion in Louisville. Also don't forget to check out the Louisville Ghost Map app in iTunes and Google Play. Take your own ghost tour at your pace with you phone!

Joe is a 27 year veteran police officer in the Norristown (PA) Police Department.  Prior to joining the Norristown PD, Joe was a seasonal cop in the summers in Wildwood, NJ.  Over the course of his 32 year career in law enforcement, Joe has help multiple positions.  He has worked patrol, narcotics, S.W.A.T. for 16 years and has been the School Resource Officer assigned to the Eisenhower Middle School since 2015.  Joe struggled with alcohol for many years.  Drinking caused a lot of problems in his life and in 2009, he finally chose to fight back.  Joe chose sobriety to save his own life.  Since becoming sober, Joe has also committed to a lifestyle of healthy living and exercise.  Joe is a year-round surfer at the Jersey Shore and has become an avid triathlete.  Joe has competed in the following events:Finisher of 2 Half-Iron Man Races15 Sprint TriathalonsFinished the Famed "Escape Alcatraz" in  San Francisco, Calif. Joe has also found a way to impact lives through inspirational speaking.  By sharing his journey through alcoholism, his career in law enforcement and his healthy lifestyle - Joe is inspiring others to do the same.  When he is not inspiring the masses, he is spending time with his two beautiful daughters, Alexa (19) and Lauren (15).  

Matthew 3:13-17. In this second and final installment of our mini-series on Resting in the Lord, guest speaker Joseph Peterson shares his own personal journey on the matter and teaches us the valuable lesson of finding and truly rooting our identity in who God tells us we are, as best modeled by Jesus himself.

Joseph Peterson spoke at Leaping Laughter Lodge in Minneapolis, MN in July 2018 to an appreciative audience of about 20 people. It was seriously fun. Joseph discusses putting together a witch's handbook from the trial records of the Venetian Inquisition. This grimoire, or handbook of magic, was confiscated by the Venetian Inquisition in 1636 from practicing witches. After decades of searching for this elusive text, Joseph now has the pleasure of presenting and translating it here for the first time. It contains their secret techniques for dealing with the more dangerous spirits or daemons, intentionally scattered and hidden within a collection of “secrets” comprising many detailed examples. Together these provide enough clues to enable practitioners to create their own spells for working with all the spirits cataloged. To purchase the book - click here! 

Joseph is with Westside Church in Vancouver and brings a message entitled, Garbage and Gain from Philippians 3:4-1

Get ready listeners for an informative, wild and consciousness-expanding ride into Solomonic and grimoiric magic with author, historian, poet and practicing magician, Dr. Alexander Cummins. We explore Dr. Al’s thoughts on Solomonic magical technique, Joseph Peterson’s new tome the “Secrets of Solomon”, talk about new work exploring Archangel Raphael with Vanessa Irena, ask Dr. Al your listener questions and discuss his upcoming webinar class on the Fourth Book of Occult Philosophy and so much more. Enjoy!_________Subscribe to Glitch Bottle!_________▶︎YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/user/glitchbottle▶︎ iTuneshttps://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1235137914▶︎Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/alexander-eth/glitch-bottle

Get ready listeners for an informative, wild and consciousness-expanding ride into Solomonic and grimoiric magic with author, historian, poet and practicing magician, Dr. Alexander Cummins. We explore Dr. Al’s thoughts on Solomonic magical technique, Joseph Peterson’s new tome the “Secrets of Solomon”, talk about new work exploring Archangel Raphael with Vanessa Irena, ask Dr. Al your listener questions and discuss his upcoming webinar class on the Fourth Book of Occult Philosophy and so much more. Enjoy!_________Subscribe to Glitch Bottle!_________▶︎YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/user/glitchbottle▶︎ iTuneshttps://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1235137914▶︎Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/alexander-eth/glitch-bottle

Colossians 4:7-18 - Joseph Peterson - June 24, 2018 by The Shore Church

We speak with Office Joseph Peterson about his journey and his strong desire to help others dodge the pitfalls he has seen.

In this episode Rosered and Melissa join Andrew to talk about the roel pop culture has played in shaping and nurturing their spritual practices. They talk about Pop figures as altar items, movies and characters that shaped them, and explore what something being sacred to them might mean.  If you are interested in supporting this podcast though our Patreon you can do so here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. You can find Rosered on Twitter here and Instagram here. Tarot Visions Podcast is everywhere but you can start here.  You can find Melissa on her website here.  Planet of the Ape and other cool buddha hybrids are here.   Thanks for listening! If you dig this please subscribe and share with those who would like it. Andrew   If you are interested in booking time with Andrew either in Toronto or by phone or Skype from anywhere click here.     ANDREW: Welcome to another instalment of The Hermit's Lamp podcast. Today, I have got on the line with me, Rose Red Robinson and Melissa Ceynowa, and we're here to talk about pop culture, and the ways in which pop culture and movies and stories and all these wonderful things can influence us and be a part of our understanding of who we are and our journey. That's the official reason.  The unofficial reason is, I really wanted to hang out and talk about Big Trouble in Little China a lot … [laughter] ANDREW: And I'm not saying if you haven't seen that movie yet, that you should stop listening right now and go and do so, but I'm not saying you shouldn't, you know, cause really, if you haven't seen it yet, I don't understand. You should go see it. You should go check it out. It's on Netflix.  So, but, for, you know, people who don't know who you are—let's start with you, Rose. Give us a quick introduction.  ROSE: Okay, I've been doing tarot off and on for 20 plus years. I am fortunate enough to have a wonderful podcast of my own that I do with Jaymi Elford, called Tarot Visions, that was started back in 2013, with the lovely Charlie Harrington, and he decided to pass me off to Jaymi. I've worked in … with Tarot Media Company for many years, back in the day, studied tarot for off and on forever, and am now kind of exploring Celtic Hanlon at the moment, and, am just a general happy reader.  And I've been lucky enough to present at various conventions on the west coast, PantheaCon and Northwest Tarot Symposium, being the two, as well as running some successful meet-ups in my local area that I have also passed on to other people, because I'm not the only one who knows everything. So, it's awesome to be able to share, and engage other people to be teachers as well, cause then I can be a student, so that's fun. So that's me! ANDREW: Cool. Awesome. And Melissa?  MELISSA: I can't really follow that. No ... [laughter] ANDREW: Pretty impressive, right?  MELISSA: No, I've been—next year, I figured out, I've been reading for 30 years, and it occurred to me that I might be able to teach people, like only five years ago. So, I wrote a book. It came out last year; it's Kitchen Table Tarot, and my way of teaching the cards is really similar to Rose's, cause we both grab onto what's around us. ROSE: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: As kind of a pathway to what the card means, and... I don't know, I'm a mom, and trying to figure out how to have, you know, three jobs at a time and still pursue tarot, which is my favorite sweetheart in the whole world, is challenging but worth it, so. Yeah.  ROSE: [whispering] Her book is awesome!  MELISSA: Thank you! ANDREW: Sure. It's a good book. MELISSA: Thank you. I like it.  ANDREW: We have it in the shop; you can get it on ... everywhere. So, check it out.  MELISSA: Thank you! ANDREW: So, tell me about pop culture. You know? What is it about pop culture that intrigues you or interests you? You know? Cause I mean, like, growing up, I always heard, “TV's going to rot your brain, blah blah blah, it's all a waste of time,” right?  ROSE: Right. ANDREW: You know? But for me, it's certainly ... I guess I'll leave it up to the dear listeners to see if my brain is rotted or not, but, you know, to me it always seemed like a way of understanding, a way of connecting, a way of making sense of things, you know? At its best, I mean, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: But like, what is it about pop culture stuff that's interesting to you two?  ROSE: Okay, well, it was kind of one of my first experiences of finding spirituality, ironically enough, cause I grew up when we could watch, you know, Bewitched, and you could talk about the Greek gods on the different Hercules shows and all of those things, back with Harryhausen, and all of that. And it was just like “Oh! Wait! These aren't just crazy movies and TV shows, there's, like, stuff that they're based on?”  And then going and finding out that, you know, there's Greek mythology, and going and studying that … And then, of course, when you're in school, they're like, “Oh, you're interested in that, here, let me give you more stuff!”, cause teachers want you to learn … And so, that was really how I incorporated the two, and I'm like, well, “Isis is amazing! I love that TV show!” And then, “Oh! It's a real thing!” And then learning more about that as a child, I mean, with the wonder that we have as children, and then, you know, Wonder Woman being, you know, the princess of now, Themyscira, but then, Paradise Island, and incorporating that with the Greek mythology, and going, “Oh, wow, this makes sense!” You know. So, that's kind of where it came from for me. I don't know, your mileage may vary. But that's … I didn't see it as pop culture at the time, I just saw it as “Oh, cool TV show, talking about something real,” air quotes on the real, cause again, TV is not the real part, and just blending, and that's how I built it up, cause okay, now I've got this connection, and yeah, it made sense.  MELISSA: For me it was kind of finding connection, cause I was a lonely nerdy little child, and I would watch Wonder Woman and I would watch, even Mother Goose, you know, with her pointy hat riding a broomstick with her familiar, you know? Like, I was always drawn to the witchy kind of stuff, but I didn't know what to call it, and I loved Uncle Arthur, and, you know, all of the things that had pieces of them that also fit pieces of me, and so I've always been really drawn to pop culture because it kind of helped me identify who I am.  And, like I just saw A Wrinkle in Time, and I sobbed through the whole thing, because Meg was the only person I'd ever met who was like me, when I read those books … ROSE: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: And finding somebody that could like, reach through pages, and say, “Honey, you're normal, you're just like me,” was just amazing. And that was very spiritual for me, to find somebody who said, “You're not aberrant, and you're not a mistake,” you know? So pop culture's been really important to me because I was lonely. And the weird kids all over, The Girl with the Silver Eyes, or the X-Men, or all of these outside kids, they were me. And finding somebody that showed my face back to me was really important. So.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah. ROSE: What about you, Andrew? ANDREW: When I was growing up in the 80s, all those bad ninja movies were coming out? I was so fascinated with them, you know? And what ended up happening was, me and my friends started trying to learn how to meditate because of it, right? Because we'd see, you know, these things that were really cool and exciting, but then they'd be like sitting there and meditating. And we were like, “Oh, we should meditate. What do we do? How do we do it?” You know?  And that led to me getting involved in martial arts and learning how to really meditate, you know, when I was like 10 and 11 and stuff like that, and, you know, it's one of the things that really became a through line for me. You know? And, it's funny, when I met my partner Hanlon, they hadn't seen Big Trouble in Little China, or they certainly didn't remember seeing it, you know? And, I'm like, “You haven't seen this? We need to fix this right now!” Right? Cause this is like one of the best movies of all time.  And after watching it, he was like, “Wow! You're like all three of the main characters in one person. You're like…?” You know? Jack Burton, the dorky, kind of adventurous, like outgoing kind of person … You know, I was doing a lot of martial arts at the time we met, so, you know, Wang and sort of all of this Kung Fu stylings and stuff, right? And then I was into all these magical things, like Egg Chen, you know? And it was like this very funny thing, to have this reflected back to me, you know? Like you were saying, Melissa, it's like there were elements in this character or in the story that fit my sense of who I was, you know? And it wasn't quite as clean cut as like, “I feel like just this one or that one,” but the story and interactions between all three of those sort of fit that sense of who I was and how I wanted to be in the world, you know? As well as my struggles and other things, you know? So.  MELISSA: Yeah. And I think, going into adulthood, because I've always been, like, completely into any kind of pop culture, fairy tales, fantasy fiction, like whatever. But I could put myself in different characters. So, I'd read Madeleine L'Engle and I would be Daniel, because I loved Daniel. And I would read Charles de Lint, and Julie Coppercorn and I are right here, and it kept ... Seeing the depth in the character taught me to see the depth in myself. Almost. Or that there were other options than being depressed, being quiet, being small. And, since I didn't have really an example around me of an adult who was like me, I would base my behavior on the characters that I read who did things that were honorable and kind and ... They kind of were examples to me. You know, I grew up without a mom so seeing Wonder Woman was huge for me. That was like communion. I would watch her every week, and I identified with her and Princess Leia. That was like my mom character, you know?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: And it filled a void. And it was ... And, the beautiful thing about it is, Rose and I are both Wonder Woman crazy, and we have a connection, and we'll always have that connection. ROSE: Yeah. MELISSA: And it's so great to meet somebody and go, “You dig that thing? I dig that thing too!”  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ROSE: So, there's a whole other world where you reach outside of yourself and say, “Oh my god, I went to, you know, Comic Con, and met three women dressed like Wonder Woman and it was the best day of my life,” you know? ROSE: Oh, yeah. MELISSA: So, that level of outside connection is super important too. ROSE: Well, and, as you just mentioned, it's meeting other people. I think the rise of the Internet has really helped all of us with that because of the “I thought I was the only one who loved this thing,” and in a group where you might have been at school the only one who loved this thing, so you didn't know how to share it with your friends, and now, as you've gotten older, and the Internet exists, you're just like, “Oh my god! I can find people who love my thing!” And I get to talk to people about it.  I mean, one of the things that connected myself with tarot, and gaming, cause that's where my tarot also blends, is the fact that one of the games out there had a tarot deck made for the game, and I'm like, “Oh my god! There's a game! And a tarot! And I can play both!” And I was always the one that wanted to play the tarot character, cause that's who I was. And so, I was always playing the Fate Witch in the Seven Seas game. And then they came out with spreads to do with it, and it just, that built that spiritual connection for me, but it also was, like, reminding me that I'm not the only one who sees that or feels that or connects to that thing that I love.  And then, you know, meeting all of you guys at different events has been awesome, because it's like now I can talk to somebody else who also loves Wonder Woman, tarot, and five billion other things that are like, “Oh my god, I never knew that people like all those things that I liked,” and I think that's kind of the thing for me, is watching how that has happened over the years, and how pop culture has become stronger for other people as well, because they, who are younger than us, had, have always had Internet, have always had pop culture as a thing, and we watched it grow. And I think that was kind of what made me feel like more and more connected to the magic of it, not just the beauty of connection with people. I'm babbling.  MELISSA: Mmmhmm. ROSE: But it's true. It's how we can turn something we love into a connection with our world, if that makes sense, and the spirits around us. Okay. I'm going to stop. I don't know, I just— ANDREW: I think that's really interesting, you know? And for me, I think partly because I almost died when I was 14— ROSE: Oh! ANDREW: I really didn't carry that stuff through in a lot of ways, you know? So, like, I was 14 and after that, like after being in a serious accident, I was like, “All right, I need to understand everything,” and so although I still read, you know, like Shannara books … ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And like some of that stuff, and I was definitely reading and consuming pop culture things and so on, I was also reading Nietzsche and …  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Like, I was just, like, “All right, what is this all about?” Right? And so, for me, I enjoyed those things as a sort of through line of entertainment, but I felt like the answers were elsewhere. And then sort of later on, and you know, certainly sort of more in recent times, I've sort of seen how much is, how much, you know, answers and sort of sense of meaning can come from these other places, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: To my sort of teenage self, they just weren't serious enough, you know? ROSE: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: Yeah. ANDREW: Like I wanted to know the answers, and therefore, if a book wasn't hard to read, then it probably wasn't really helpful, was kind of a thought that I had at one point, you know?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. And yet—I'm going to interrupt and say, but see … ANDREW: Yeah! ROSE: One of the things that I always come back to mind … We, specifically in pop culture items, there are levels, so there's the level for the kid who's reading it, and then if the parent is reading it, there's more in there that we as adults could see, but when we're that young age we might miss something. It's … What comes to mind right now is the Harry Potter books. You know? They were written, and as they progressed, the child/reader gets older, but so does the characters, but that very first book—it looks like a kid's book, but it's really not, and I think that that's the kind of thing that people miss sometimes, is that there's underlying elements for the adults as well, and so there's something that is being put into motion at first. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. ROSE:  The next thing that just came to mind while you were talking about this is Steven Universe. It's a kids' show, but it's not. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. ROSE: And that's the beauty of bringing in the myths and legends around, you know, people and connection. But parents are like, you know, “Oh, my kid can watch that, it's a cartoon!”  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. ROSE: And yet, there's more there.  ANDREW: And I definitely don't think now that those things are missing, right?  ROSE: No. Oh, no, no.  ANDREW: Yeah. I've read all the Harry Potter books, I don't even know now, cause my kids keep rereading them and we keep rereading them to them, right? ROSE: Right. ANDREW: So, you know, you keep going through that stuff, and there's all sorts of wonderful things in there, you know, for sure, right? But yeah, definitely, it was a concept that I had when I was younger about that stuff for sure, right? Yeah. MELISSA: I always found them too as kind of a gateway. So, like the Madeleine L'Engle books, one of them uses Patrick's Rune, which is a Celtic prayer, and I went to the library and asked the librarian, “Where did this come from?” And she handed me five books on Celtic mythology. And then I wandered out of there and read everything I could about Celtic mythology. And I went back and she gave me Egyptology. And then I went back the next week and I had Chinese divination books. And so, it all kind of fed from each other, and it made me curious about everything, about all of it. And so, I love that within the story is another gateway to another story. I think that's why I'm a big gigantic nerd, if I'm honest, so.  ANDREW: So. ROSE: You've surrounded yourself by nerds, Andrew. Just so you know.  ANDREW: I know! It's great. I love it. It's perfect. I was looking at my collection of pop figures this morning before leaving, and thinking about recording today … ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Because I have ... Pop figures, if anyone doesn't know them, are these little large-headed representations of, you know, most of the cartoon and movie and TV show and pop culture stuff. And you know, I was looking at my pop Jack Burton, I've got Gracie Law, and I've got the glow in the dark Lo Pan … [laughter] ANDREW: And then I've also got General Voltan from Flash Gordon ...  ROSE: Ah! ANDREW: Which is another of my sort of favorite childhood movies.  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: But, it, unlike Big Trouble in Little China, doesn't stand the test of time as well. [laughs] It's a pretty horrendous movie when I look back.  MELISSA: But the music does. ROSE: The music's amazing.  ANDREW: The music does, and Ming the Merciless is a tremendous bad guy and a wonderful look, you know?  ROSE: Oh yeah.  ANDREW: But yeah, lots of that movie is definitely really pretty horrendous, though, the last time I looked at it, yeah. ROSE: So. ANDREW: There's nothing wrong with being surrounded with nerds. ROSE: Something that ... So, I took a class at PantheaCon last year on pop culture and magic, cause that's what you do, and Emily Carlin was talking about how you can, because of the connections with the pop culture and magic, you can use some of those Funko pop characters in your practice, if you don't, you know ...  So, you don't want your friends to know what you're doing, but you want to honor your gods. There's a lot of ‘em out there that exist, and you just mentioned Lo Pan, and I'm wondering, you know, would you consider using that as part of your practice, if that were something you were trying to ...? Or that energy. Or even the energy of Jack Burton, I mean, because I mean, the man's the adventurer kingdom, you know, he's before we even get Indiana Jones! MELISSA: He never drives faster than he can see.  ROSE: Yeah. MELISSA: I mean, the man's got skills.  ANDREW: [laughing] ROSE: And he knows what he wants out of life. He wants to drive, he wants to adventure, you know, and that's, you know, so what do you think about that?  ANDREW: I think that that's entirely possible, you know ... I mean, I ... So I'm sitting here recording, and I'm looking at my shelf of things, and, you know, there's a picture of Aleister Crowley, there's a painting I did of St. Expedite, you know, there's like some self-portraits that I've done for magical reasons, and in the middle is my Dr. Zaius Buddha. So, Dr. Zaius from Planet of the Apes, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: The science person who believed that sort of religion and science ought to be the same and not at odds with each other, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And somewhere on Etsy, I found this person who was making Buddhas with different heads on them, like Star Wars ones and Yoda ones and whatever, and I reached out because I was looking for something to kind of use as a magical anchor for my sort of joyous relationship to my work life … ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW:  And sort of do some prosperity work with. And so, I reached out to the person, and I said, “Your stuff is amazing; what I really would like is a Dr. Zaius from the Planet of the Apes.” And his response was, “Dude, I'm working on them right now, I will email you as soon as they are done,” right?  ROSE: That's brilliant.  ANDREW: And so, I got one, you know? (photo in show notes) In gold, and ... ROSE: Oh my gosh! That's amazing! ANDREW: It sits up here with some other stuff, and it's definitely ... It was, for a while, the focal point of a bunch of work that I was doing. Now less so, you know? But ... ROSE: Different work now.  ANDREW: Yeah, but, you know, but for me, I feel like I use the pop stuff as tools for psychological sort of inner self explorations ...  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I'm, I mean, because I practice a traditional religion, I don't really feel drawn to use them in sort of my more religious or devotional kind of stuff, because those things already have their own avenues?  ROSE: Right.  ANDREW: But I could see how ... And also, when I was younger, if people didn't like what I was up to, I would be like, “Well, screw you, you're dead to me.”   ROSE: Okay. ANDREW: So. Whoever that was. You know? So, the idea of obscuring things has never been a part of my process. You know?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: But I can see how that makes a lot of sense, though, if it is? Right? And I understand that for a lot of people the sort of notion of flying under the radar, right, is important.  MELISSA: We have ... Sorry. We have a family altar in the middle of our living room, and the kids help me. We clean it off at the end of the month, and the kids help me kind of build it over the month, and it gets covered with incense dust and whatever rocks we like, and then we start at the beginning of the month again. And any given month, there is a statue of Mary, some fox fetishes from a Zuni tribe, and a couple Wonder Woman Funko pops, and whatever the kids want to throw on. And it's, you know, if my son is feeling particularly, you know, sad or feeling small, than he'll put his Thor Funko Pop on the altar, and that's his way of kind of reaching out and connecting. ROSE: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: And I've never made anything ... I've never disallowed them from putting anything, whether plastic or, you know, any kind of rocks or whatever, on the altar, because it's not really the antiquity or the ceremony around the object, it's what it means to you.  ROSE: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: And if Thor needs to be on the altar this month, cool, let's do it. You know?  ROSE: Well, and one of the things that I have in plenty is, I'm a Lego nerd. So, I have this, which is, I'm showing to you, Andrew and Melissa, it's a Lego minifig of the Tarot Reader, who is holding a Sun card and a Tower card. And when I first got one of these ... and I've got like three of them now ... I carry ‘em with me in my tarots, when I do readings out, and people kind of go, “What is that?” “It's a tarot minifig! See? This is not scary!” And ... but it's also, you know, a representation of me sometimes, when I need to focus, and so it's again how pop culture and how pop stuff crosses over with my spirituality. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. ROSE: So, it's just a thing, I think that we all need to just grasp what works for us and build our practice around that part of it, and honor the traditional, because that's important. It's finding out what the traditions really are. But then, when it makes it work for you, if connecting that with Wonder Woman for example, or getting the Funko Pop of Hercules, cause, you know, that was kind of cool, works for you, to represent that, you know, or the Athena one, do it, I think that's great. But I also, you know—be aware of what you're connecting with, too, because you're not, it's not just surface stuff.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah. I also think that it's certainly possible with a lot of these things to start opening up in directions, and making connections with things, and then, you know, and then you can kind of go off and explore the spirituality and come back around and sort of revisit the pop culture layer with new eyes as well, right? It's a way in which we can, you know, continue to see deeper layers and maybe even sort of write extra layers on top of it, even if they're not there, right?  ROSE: Mm. Yeah, I could see that.  MELISSA: During my classes, I think Rose does this too, we both teach tarot classes, and we both use pop culture in them ... ROSE: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: And so, I have this feature that, the name of which I accidentally stole from Jaymi Elford—sorry, Jaymers!—called Pop Goes the Tarot, and I take a fandom like Firefly, and I match it with a tarot card ... ROSE: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: And, I've found the response to those has been really huge. Because if you're having a problem figuring out what the Hermit card is, or what the Emperor is, and if I say the Emperor is Erich Hartmann dressed up as a police officer saying, “Respect my authority!” I mean, that is a pretty strong connection to the archetype of the Emperor ... ROSE: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: And if they start there, and then move on to like, Benebell's gigantic book, or, like, another book that has like spiritual historical symbolic meanings of the cards, then they'll already have that first step into it and what it means—what it could mean for them. You know? And I think that if people do that with their own particular fandoms, they'll have an intimate connection with what that card is.  ROSE: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: So, it's been really fun, and I keep getting emails about ideas of fandoms to explore, but if they're not mine, I don't have the confidence to assign the cards to them, so ... ROSE: I'm still waiting for your Brady Bunch tarot.  MELISSA: Oh, that would be a good one! Okay. I know that fan, I got that. ROSE: [laughing] And I think that's the beauty of pop culture and connection with spirituality is that you are making it a little bit more understandable for yourself. And as you said, yeah, taking the cards, “Okay, this is the Emperor,” well, what's the Emperor do? You know? Is it Emperor Palpatine? Or is it, you know, the … I can't even think right now, Dumbledore, let's just put it that way, that's not even right, though. But the point is, you're figuring out which one matches up better for you. You know, I mean, the Devil might be Voldemort, he might be, you know, Darth Vader, but he also might be, you know, the little girl from The Bad Seed, which is a 1930, 45, something, I don't know, 50s movie about a bad kid who personifies as beautiful and happy and lovely and she does really horrible things for a pair of shoes in one point. But anyway. The point is that you just connect these things. And then you can figure out what your personal connection is to either cards or to spiritual path. And also, the fact that that's part of the collective unconscious as well, because all of these people … also … the moment you say, Lord Palpatine, to a group of people, most of them, I'm not going to say all, but most of them know what you're talking about.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. ROSE: So, you know, you're doing something with a group, and you want to go okay, pull a card, “Oh, and this reminds me of Lord Palpatine,” and the rest of the audience knows what you're talking about. And that's the beauty of the pop culture. Of course, it is also needing to be aware that it is country-sometimes-specific or fandom-specific, because there are people that haven't seen Star Wars.  ANDREW: Well, and also, I think that each of these worlds has varying stories and ideas around power and around, you know, who's the Emperor or the Devil, right? You know?  ROSE: Right. ANDREW: You know, is the Emperor positive, you know? Is it really like great and endearing and lovable figure? Could be, you know?  ROSE: Could be. ANDREW: Right? Is it somebody nefarious and controlling, you know? As I was organizing this, Aidan Wachter resurfaced something he had done previously where he had put Ming the Merciless from Flash Gordon as the Emperor card. Right?  ROSE: Ooh. ANDREW: The guy's an Emperor, a horrible Emperor, but, you know? And I think that there's this level at which, you know, we can start to understand the ways in which we or people view lots of different ideas. ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: As we look at those, you know, what is the notion of justice in Firefly or in, you know, this, that, or whatever, right? ROSE: The Justice League.  ANDREW: Justice League, yeah. How good are the Greek gods, right? You know? If we're looking at Watchmen …  ROSE: Oh, yeah. ANDREW: It's a whole different matter, right? You know?  MELISSA: Batman has been a total a-hole lately, so? ROSE: Yeah. ANDREW: He always was! That's why I liked Batman! You know? I mean when I got into Batman Comics, I was reading them when like the Dark Knight starts, like the comic books start coming out, and Arkham Asylum and the Joker and the Killing Joke and all that kind of stuff, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Batman was this pretty sort of amoral, you know, fairly dark character, you know?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And it was interesting, right?  ROSE: You needed a counterpoint, though, to Superman, so yeah. ANDREW: Right? You know? So, I think that yeah, again, it's always, it depends on what we're looking at, right? Are we talking about Adam West as Batman, that's one thing, right? Are we talking about, you know, Christian Bale or, you know, these other comics and stuff, I think that that also becomes quite interesting, and then how do we reconcile sort of what's behind all of those things, you know? What is that? Right? ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: That carries through all those through lines, you know? Yeah. ROSE: Well, and being able to reconcile which versions you're using, as you're pointing out. Cause they all have different flavors.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. ROSE: But that doesn't mean they're different characters, cause they're all parts of Batman, they're just highlighting different facets. I mean, everybody, what, freaked out when Ben Affleck was cast as Batman, and my first thought was, well, he'd make a great Bruce Wayne. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. ROSE:  Not—And I didn't even think of him as Batman, I just thought of him as the Bruce Wayne part of the character, because I think that he has the gravitas for that part. I don't know about his Batman. I'm not going to talk about that. But the point is that I didn't lose my cool over it, let's put it that way, as other people did, because they felt that Batman needed to be darker. Da. And— MELISSA: Well. ROSE: Christian Bale really pulled off a very strong Batman, I think. But it depends on who's writing it. Go ahead.  MELISSA: I think that's an important part too, is that people take these very personally. I always think that people, you know how you're not supposed to talk about religion and politics and stuff. I think that's because people hold their beliefs so close to them, they become integrated with who they are, so if you question the belief, you're questioning the person. So that's my base belief.  And I think that people take fandoms to that level too. Like I was in an elevator one time with my Wonder Woman lunchbox, and somebody was like, is that your kid's? And this was a stranger and I said no. And she goes, aren't you a little old for that? And I, you know, wanted to say, shouldn't you go, whatever ... ROSE: Yeah. MELISSA: But I almost started crying. Because it was so personal. ROSE: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: And such an intimate thing for me, and I was like, I can't fix what she picked on. I can't make that different. It is part of who I am. So, it isn't something that I can like hide it behind my back and pretend that it never happened. She picked on something that was really intimate with me. And I think that that's why, like people get really upset if their identity of who Batman is, is picked on or it's shifted from who they say it is. It's very personal.  ROSE: Yeah. By the way, the response to that should have been “Um, no,” and “Where's your sense of imagination?” But anyway. ANDREW: Well, and so, one of the other fandoms that I quite enjoy is Doctor Who, right?  ROSE: Yes!  ANDREW: And Doctor Who is an interesting one in that regard, because Doctor Who is always changing, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, you know, I think that it's kind of, it's one of the things that makes it fascinating for me, right? You know?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I certainly have my favorite and less favorite iterations, you know?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: But yeah, I think it's really interesting, you know? And I think that this notion that we end up at, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I think that it's one of the reasons that we like fiction so much, right? In its various forms. Is fictional characters or stories or whatever: they're allowed to change, right? But if we walk through the world, it's easy to end up in places and around people where it's much harder or maybe sort of unofficially not permitted to change, right?  ROSE: Mm. ANDREW: All of those social constructs of our job and our relationships and our friends and stuff can sort of exert this force that seeks to keep us in a constant relationship, right? We always have to be Ben Affleck, or we never can be Ben Affleck, or whatever it is about that Batman, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And yet these stories and the way in which both are reinvented as the worlds get rewritten, but also as they go through their journeys, they get to become different people, which I also think is very fascinating, you know? Yeah. I think the ... I think that, you know, bonking someone in the head with your Wonder Woman lunch bag is probably a good time.  [laughter] ANDREW: I endorse that. The Jack Burton in me said “Do it.”  [laughter] ANDREW: Yeah. MELISSA: It's all in the reflexes.  ROSE: Well, and I ... it sounds like you were surprised by the commentary too.  MELISSA: Mmmhmm. ROSE: Cause that is kind of surprising, it's like, why would you say that to someone that you don't even know?  ANDREW: Yeah. Well, it's ... Yeah. And I know lots of people who complain or make comment about people doing cosplay or people doing ... I'm like, “Why on earth are you peeing in someone else's Cheerios?”  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Just let them have their fun and do whatever they're doing, like, what does it matter to you? Why do you care, right?  MELISSA: That is such a visual, thanks! ANDREW: You're welcome. But why on earth would anyone care what you watch or don't watch or carry or all these things, right? Like just, you know.  MELISSA: And I've gotten emails from people who said that, like I've had four or five, actually, in the past couple years that said I'm making light of a sacred tradition, and I'm like, if you don't like my book, cause my book is pretty light, I connect things to the publisher, I connect them to stories in my life, I connect the cards to pretty much anything that I find relatable, as a form of teaching. If you don't like it, don't fucking read my book. That's fine. Don't read my stuff about pop culture. Don't. Go find something else that you relate to. If you find yourself wanting to send that email, also don't do that, because, you know, blocked and deleted, as my kid says. It's just, why would you do that? Why would you take the time to try to impress yourself on another adult who already has their ideas? And it just seems so futile. And self-promoting and crappy. ANDREW: Well, why do people do these things? What do you think?  MELISSA: I think they feel small. and they want to feel big. That's … I think it's sad. Well, I mean, it pisses me off. But I also think it's sad. And, you know, it's a way for them to feel big. It's a shitty way to do it, but it's a way, you know? ROSE: Yeah. And also, it's a way to say, “Hey, see, I'm smart, I know this thing, and maybe you don't, and here, let me explain it to you so that you see the error of your ways.”  MELISSA: Well, actually ...  ROSE: And that's, I think, a big thing that's going on is, you know, as the older guard, if you will, starts passing on, unfortunately, the younger guard is going to take what they've learned and they're not going to ignore the sources, but they're also going to make it their own. And I think that's what you do, is that you remind people, yes, there are these big things and sacredness to everything and please honor that, but while you're learning that stuff, to be able to use your tools now, here's a way to connect it to what you're going through with your everyday life.  I mean, part of, okay, James Wanless, cause I talk about him a lot, in general, is him, he created the Voyager Tarot. If you look at his courts, they're not knight/queen/king/page, they're child/woman/man/sage, because it was like, okay, in the 80s, we don't know, anybody, really, not in America, who are knights, queens, kings, and pages, really. Yeah, if you go to England, you can find them, I know, but I know a child, I know a woman, I know a man, and I might even know a sage, who is someone who knows a lot of stuff, so [sigh]. That's like … And it's modernizing something. That didn't mean he threw out the past. He just brought some stuff up to the future. And I think that's what you, Melissa, are doing with your work, is that you are taking this sacred knowledge that you learned, and then applying the stuff that you love and connecting them and making them more palpable for a modern view. Again, not ignoring where it came from, but not saying, okay, we can ONLY talk about it in that fashion. Because you need to have something that you can connect to, or it's not going to stick. At least that's been my experience.  MELISSA: My biggest hope about this book is that it is completely irrelevant in 30 years. I would love that. Because I want everybody to just kind of get involved, and I want ideas to change, and they're already a couple of things that I put in it that I'm like, damn it, I kind of want to fix that, but it's too late. And, because I think that, you know, my kids think different things than I do, and they're 12 and 14, and their kids are going to have a whole different perspective. And I think that tarot lends itself to being whatever you need it to be, and so I think that what people will need it to be in 30 years is going to be something entirely different. I think that's beautiful. You know?  ANDREW: So, I kind of, I agree, and I disagree with you. ROSE: Okay. ANDREW: I want to, I'm going to throw out some other options here. And I'm going to start by framing it in a different context and then come back to tarot. Right? ROSE: Okay! ANDREW: So, as you both know, and as people who listen probably know, right? I practice the Orisha tradition in a very traditional way. Right? And, so, for me, this is a very sacred thing, you know? And certainly in my practice, I endeavor to follow the traditional ways of doing things and work with my elders and all of that kind of stuff.  And, so here's this thing that I identify and hold very sacred and not immutable, and not that I think there aren't a few things that might benefit from changing, but in general, I'm very like, this is it, these are the things, this is how it's done, and these are the beliefs within that structure about how these spirits work with people, and so many things, right? And then, I run a store, and I go out in the world, and I do things, and people do all sorts of other stuff, right? And that stuff ranges from interesting and sort of regional difference, to like horrendous, in my opinion, misunderstandings and appropriation, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, so, for me, there's this practice where I have my own structures, and beliefs, and structures in which I work, and I look out from that place into other things that people are doing, and all, so much of it I don't understand what's going on at all ... ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Or, from a traditional point of view it's problematic or inappropriate. But I recognize that everybody's free to do whatever they like, and so I just largely ignore, or just don't engage people when they're doing other things, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: When it comes to tarot, I think that it's very challenging, you know, and Mary Greer just had a big post on this on her Facebook. If you're a follower of hers, you could probably scroll down a bit and find it. About this sort of, can we just do anything with tarot, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm.  ANDREW: And I think that to me, while it's not as clearly defined as my religious practice, which is a very clear and sort of longstanding traditional structure, I think that with tarot, there's this sort of central core of things, which to me encompasses what tarot is, you know?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And as you migrate out from those sort of pieces, and depending on which sort of pockets you choose to work with, right? Are you a Rider-Waite person and falling kind of in that line? Are you a more esoteric person and fall in that line? Are you reading in a more sort of European style with, like, Marseilles cards and so on ...? ROSE: Mmmhmm.  ANDREW: But to me, there's a place at which it loses its cohesion as we start doing anything with it, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: There's a place at which the absence of what I sort of perceive as coherence starts ... I again … I have a similar feeling, although it's in a different way, where I just stop understanding what's going on. You know? I just don't understand, what is this? What's happening here? How does this work? So. Anyways. That's my response to what you said, Melissa.  MELISSA: That was a lot. And I do agree with you, but I think what I was trying to say, and maybe didn't do a good job, is that my opinion is not the only opinion. And that there is going to be a core. It can't be tarot and be 10,000 different things at the core, but it has to be basically the same thing for everybody.  But I'm not teaching the core of anything, I'm teaching what I think, and I'm teaching what's relatable to me, and, like, I learned to read on this Eden Gray book, and I read it so much that it's held together by duct tape and prayers, I mean, it's just, it's really beat up. But she didn't speak my language. And it took me a long, long time to figure out what the hell a Hierophant was, how to say it, I'm still not sure if I'm right, I couldn't relate to it at all.  It wasn't until I found Rachel Pollack and Mary Greer, that I went, “Oh! They're speaking my language!” And Barbara Moore spoke my language, you know? And those three women taught me tarot. And Eden Gray tried to for like 15 years, but I ... It was so far removed from who I was and my understanding, that I had to read it with a dictionary in one hand, you know, to try to figure out what the hell she was talking about.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: So, when I say that I hope that my stuff becomes irrelevant, it's going to, I'm not going to be relatable to a 14-year-old in 30 or 40 years. It's just not going to happen. And I think that's great. You know?  ANDREW: You never know, you'll have a syndicated tv show at that point, and ... MELISSA: Yeah... ROSE: A couple of books, and movies, and people will be following you on the Internets, and ... ANDREW: Manga and reinterpretations of your books, and reinventions, and ... [laughter] ROSE: You will be then flown to China, many times! And! But no, seriously. And I think I agree with Melissa on this, but I also see what your point is, Andrew, and I think what I ... I'm not saying throw the baby out with the bathwater if you will. Because again, if you're following a tradition, that's very different. In my opinion. Because, again, like you said, your Orisha has a structure. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. ROSE: And tarot has a structure, true. And adding pop culture won't—shouldn't, let me be more specific—shouldn't take away from the underlying structure. But as— ANDREW: And I don't think that pop culture is at all an issue in relation to tarot— ROSE: No, no, no, no— ANDREW: I wouldn't be having this conversation if I did, right?  ROSE: No, no, no, no—no, no. No, what I'm saying is I think that the way that I may have phrased it is like, it does not apply to everything. You cannot apply ... You can't take the Orisha tradition and then apply pop culture to it ... They're two very different things.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. ROSE: And there is a foundation in tarot that is being something you can move and mesh with. But it doesn't, the foundation doesn't go away, even when you apply the pop culture.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: And I wonder if—oh, I'm sorry. ROSE: No, go ahead.  MELISSA: If the difference between the two is that Orisha is sacred and when tarot is sacred to someone, they don't really want pop figures in their tarot.  ROSE: Right.  MELISSA: So, it's how close you hold it to who you are and your faith. And tarot to me is a tool, it's a stack of pretty cards that help me do my thing, that's fantastic, and I'll be really pissed if ... ANDREW: Pop culture is sacred to you, right?  MELISSA: It's a tool, it's a tool that I love, but I ... you know, I don't have it on my altar, I don't worship it. I don't think that. ... They're a tool that I can use really well, but that doesn't mean that they're sacred to me. You know? That might be the difference, you know?  ANDREW: For me, with my tarot cards, right, I'm a huge fan of the Joseph Peterson reproduction of the Jean Noblet Tarot de Marseilles. That is basically the only one that I read with right now. And so like, when I realized that they were going to go out of print, I just took three and put them in a drawer, cellophane-wrapped, so that when the one that I'm using now wears out, which it is starting to kind of get a bit worn, I can just be like, yeah, I don't need to be sad about this, they're just ink on paper, I'll go get another one from the drawer, you know?  MELISSA: Yeah. I did the same thing with the Uusi Pagan Otherworlds Tarot. I saw one picture—Ryan Edwards posted a picture of it, and I bought two. And I was like, this is for me, and this one is for future me. And future me is going to thank me, because I'm going to read with this about ten times a week forever, and then I'll need a new one, because they speak to me so much. But it's just like a really good chef's knife. You know? If you find the knife that fits your hand, that's the one that you're going to want to have around.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: Not that I can cook. I really can't! But I know that knives are expensive.  ROSE: Knives are important, knives are important, good to know, I agree. But again, it's kind of like, you're honoring the basis, you're not changing it. And you're adding a layer to understanding, I don't ... [sigh] It's just, oh gosh, that's just two very separate things for me.  Cause again, I do put tarot cards on my altar, and I generally use the Rider Waite Smith just because it's simple for that. I don't read with one of those very often, unless I'm at an event where I don't know if people are going to know it. I bring in one with me, but my cards always vary, I'm either carrying around the Everyday Witch Tarot, which just recently came out in the last two years, or the Druidcraft, which I've cut the borders off of, which was a thing you didn't do back in the day and now you do if you want to, and I've got like three copies of that particular deck cause it spoke to me.  I've got my Robin Wood because again, my mood changes, I mean I've got three different copies of the Voyager, and I have one that I've cut in fours so that I can like, have a focus, I need to have something focused, pull that corner of that card and go, okay that's the thing I need to look at, then go get the bigger image and figure out what that was, and … But again, I don't think I'm getting rid of the sacredness that the tarot, air quotes, is founded on, cause again we're still, there are still arguments about how that's been founded, but anyway.  But I wouldn't necessarily take pop culture and put my religious aspects on it, cause like I said I'm trying to study Celtic recre- recreation- bleh. Ah, talking! Celtic reconstructionism, that's the word, and I'm trying to find out that by reading their actual text. And that's not … But again, now how do you talk to people who are studying Norse mythology right now? And, you know, all the love of all of the Thor movies, and all of that, you know, and what about Loki and those movies, cause people are now making their version of Loki look like Tom Hiddleston. Lovely as he is, that's not the Norse mythology Loki. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. ROSE: So, but they're blending that a little bit. And is that going against the sacred text, because that's their image of it, even though they may be reading the actual text, they're still visualizing Tom Hiddleston? I don't know.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: I'm always a fan of visualizing Tom Hiddleston, just to be on record, I have no problems with that.  ROSE: [laughing] ANDREW: I think few people have a problem with that, very very few people. Yeah. ROSE: He's lovely, but, do you know what I'm saying?  ANDREW: Yeah, absolutely.  MELISSA: Yeah, absolutely.  MELISSA: But I think it again goes to, how close do you hold it to you? If that's something that you hold very close to you, then that's not okay, and I think that we have to be really mindful of that, with other people, of how close they hold something, before we go goofing around with it, you know? For sure.  ROSE: Did that answer your question, Andrew?  ANDREW: Did I have a question?  ROSE: Well, I want to make sure we spoke to the ... cause again, you said you agreed and disagreed with our statement, and I'm thinking, well, yeah, I get both of what you're talking about, and I want to make sure that we responded.  ANDREW: Yeah, I think that there's a couple things, right? One is, people get really upset about the tradition of tarot. Right? And what they mean by the tradition of tarot depends on who that person is, right?  ROSE: Yeah. ANDREW: Do they mean, you know, Arthur Waite, and Rider-Waite-Smith, and sort of the various things that come from that? ROSE: [whispering] The Golden Dawn! ANDREW: Do they mean, you know, something different, like ...? And to some extent, I think that there's this sort of ... It's a ... It's a fake argument, right? Because ultimately there are at least a handful of branches of tarot from a big perspective, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, but you can go down and then there's all those sort of branches that come from these things, and if you're in one and looking at the other, they're always kind of challenging, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm.  ANDREW: I mean I started reading tarot initially with the Mythic Tarot but really focused on Crowley's work, right, and so I basically just read The Book of Thoth, right, over and over and over again ... ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And people would say to me, like, well how do I learn Crowley's Thoth deck, and I'm like, “He wrote a book, you read it, like, I don't understand the question,” right?  ROSE: Right.  ANDREW: And, it's kind of unfair, cause the book is complicated and obtuse and difficult to read and you know, all of those things, right? But again, it was the only thing I could get my hands on and, back in the 80s and 90s, as far as I knew, it was the only thing in print. There was nothing else to get. So, I was like, I'm just going to keep reading this thing until it makes more sense. ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: So, there's that, right? But I also think that … I think there is the challenge where people layer other things like well, maybe like pop culture, certainly like their own intuitive or self-derived meanings, and then assert those as like, you know, universal or inherently true or all those kinds of things, right? Because there ... I think that one can do anything you like with tarot, and I think that you should do everything that you like and feel like you want to do with tarot. And associate those meanings and all of that kind of stuff ... ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: The challenge is where people sort of erase the rest of the branches of the trees, right?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, I've met a bunch of people who were very good psychics who used cards, but I would never really consider them card readers because what they do has no bearing on anything that I've ever understood to be reading the cards. ROSE: Hmm. ANDREW: They lay them out and they start talking, and they're like, “Oh yeah, this one, and blah blah blah blah blah,” and I'm like, “Why is the Ten of Swords getting a new job?” and they're like, “I don't know, that's the message I get,” and I'm like, “Okay.” And their readings are true ...  ROSE: Right. ANDREW: But they literally have no bearing whatsoever on anything that anybody would agree upon who has studied cards at all. Right? So, I ... ROSE: Huh. ANDREW: But those people—the couple of people that I've met that way—asserted what they were doing was traditional, was reading the cards, and I'm like, “It's not, it's something else, you know?” And not that it's invalid, but it's where things get confusing, right?  MELISSA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: So. Yeah. So that's my mix of things.  ROSE: Now I want to meet some of those people and see how they read. Cause that'd be interesting, cause the Ten of Swords as a job ... Huh. Interesting.  ANDREW: Yeah. ROSE: Interesting.  ANDREW: It's easy. You just like, deal out like 20 cards on the table in some random ever-changing pattern every time you do it, and then you just look at them and say things, and that's it. That's what it looks like, so. ROSE: Okay. All right. I will have to find somebody who does it that way, then. That's interesting. Yeah. Hmm. I don't know.  ANDREW: Uh-huh. Were you going to say something, Melissa? I saw you like, lean in there.  MELISSA: Yeah, I, you know, I think that I've read like that before, when I've just done the readings intuitively and the cards don't matter. I don't … I hardly look at them, and if I need them to make a point, I'll find the card that makes that point with what I'm saying, but it becomes like a connection psychic reading or whatever, and I'll glance at the cards and just do the reading, and I'll pull stuff out of wherever it comes from, and the cards … Basically shuffling them helps the person relax, you know? Handling them helps me get in the place that I need to be, and then the reading just happens.  And, should I see something in the cards that pushes forth what I'm getting, then I'll be like, “Oh, yeah, this thing here, right, yeah, this is what the sword is doing,” and it kind of ... I did it more when I was first starting out, because I didn't know what the hell I was doing. And I was like, “Oh, well, I'm thinking about your mother, and here's a lady sitting in a chair, so clearly those two things are related.” But now, if I'm not paying attention to the way that I'm doing readings, I'll just start reading for somebody while they're shuffling, before they've even put the cards, like, down, and I'll start the reading, and then I'll be like “Oh, crap! I was supposed to wait. Sorry, my bad!” And that's just how my readings have evolved. So, it's strange, but, you know, it is what it is. I'm not everybody's cup of tea.  ROSE: But you are someone's shot of whiskey. It's fine.  MELISSA: I'm a bit weird in that way, but I think that it's just kind of merging two different styles of reading, because I can read just the cards, and I can read without them, and when I merge the two, sometimes one way is stronger, and sometimes the other one is. So.  ANDREW: Yeah. But you're not ... it doesn't sound like you're confusing the two.  MELISSA: No. They're definitely different.  ANDREW: Yeah. MELISSA: And. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.  ANDREW: So. For people who want to play with pop culture, what should they do?  ROSE: What do you mean?  ANDREW: Well, people listening to this and maybe this is a newer idea, or they've been thinking about it, but don't know where to start? If you're, like, going to start, like, incorporating or thinking about pop culture as a thing that could overlap and intersect with spiritual practice, like reading the cards or something else, where do people start?  MELISSA: I always like, when I have students, I ask them to start a tarot journal, and I ... One of the first things I ask them to do is to find their favorite fandom and match the major arcana to as many characters as they can, and then we talk about why they came up with those answers. ROSE: Mm. MELISSA: The other thing I do is ask them to find a song for each card. And a song that kind of speaks to the meaning of, like there's a song called “Pendulum Swinger,” and I'm like, this to me, by the Indigo Girls, is the High Priestess. And, so, they listen to the song that I pick, and I say, “Why do you think that I picked that?” And it just gives us like, an hour's worth of conversation based on a song in Firefly about cards, that it helps them connect to them in a way that they didn't know that they could, and it's fun. It's really fun. So, that's what I do. ROSE: I generally try and have people just look at the cards and see what they see. If they're new, and they're like, “I'm not ... This makes no sense!” The first thing I tell them and, sorry people who write the Little White Books, or the LWBs, I tell them to put that away. And to just take time with, you know, tarot journal, every day, pick a card, write what you see, tell me what it feels like to you, find a word, just one word, to describe that card. And go through all the cards.  And then, is there something in your community, your stuff you love, the interests that you have, that comes up for you when you see that card? Write that down. And then, when we meet, we talk about what it is you saw, why did you see it, and how does it connect? And sometimes it's pop culture, sometimes it's just, you know, something they read, but, and that's still something that's going on around them, and then we talk about it. And then, you know, it might be—cause most of my friends are Star Wars fans—we talk about Star Wars connected to the tarot. Or we'll talk about Star Trek cause that's the other fandom, cause we're old school like that.  ANDREW: Well, when I ... ROSE: In that way.  ANDREW: Was studying Kabbalah the first time, Star Trek Next Generation was on the air, right? So, the conversation was, all right, Tree of Life, which one's the Captain? Which one's Worf? Which one's, you know, whoever, right?  ROSE: Yeah. ANDREW: Kind of running through that. And making those parallels and sitting in a room of people and discussing that.  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: That's such a wonderful, like, I think that one of the great things about these kinds of ideas is the dialogue about where they can get ascribed to is tremendously educating, you know?  ROSE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: There's no right or wrong answers, you know, depending on the angle or the lens we use, they could be a variety of things, right? You know? I mean, Jack Burton can be the Fool, right? But they can also be a variety of other things depending on where they are in that journey. Right?  ROSE: Right.  ANDREW: But, yeah. ROSE: Well, and who would you make—I would say Wang might be more the Fool, and Jack is the Magician.  MELISSA: I don't know. I put Wang as Temperance, and Burton as the Fool, cause Wang balances mind, body, and spirit a lot better than anyone else.  ROSE: Ah. ANDREW: Yeah. I think, I mean. You think about Jack Burton, you know? Especially that scene where like, all of the scenes with him that machine gun, right? Like he's there and he's got this machine pistol thing, right?  ROSE: Yeah. ANDREW: He jumps out and he tries to shoot it and he's like, “Oh, it doesn't work.” And then he goes back and tries to fix it, he comes back, and all of a sudden everything's whatever, he drops it, or he shoots the bricks over his head, they hit him in the head and he falls down, you know like, there's this constant set of things. To me, Egg Chen would be the Magician. Right? You know? He's got his potion, right?  ROSE: Yeah.... ANDREW: That helps him see things nobody can see and do things nobody can do?  ROSE: Yeah... ANDREW: And he's got his bag and ... ROSE: But I would make him the Hierophant.  ANDREW: Hmm. ROSE: I'd make him the Hierophant because he's the teacher, even though you might not want to learn the lesson, or you're not ready to see it, he's got the answers. But that's me.  MELISSA: Yeah, I think that Gracie would be that, because Gracie has all the back story and the information that they're missing to go on their adventure, so Gracie Law basically jumps in to say, “Oh, by the way, you need to go to this place, this is who that guy is, here's what he's up to, here's who these guys are, and in that way he hands them the keys to their adventure, right?” ANDREW: Mmmhmm. MELISSA: And the cool thing about this conversation is, all of us disagree, and nobody's being an asshole about it.  [laughter] MELISSA: Which I think is really cool, and that more people should probably do when they're talking about tarot. ANDREW: Perfect. ROSE: Yes! No matter what the lens that you're talking about it with, I would agree.  ANDREW: Absolutely, absolutely. All right, well thank you all for hanging out and indulging my ridiculousness around this conversation. I deeply appreciate it. Rose, where should people come find you online?  ROSE: You can find me on Twitter @RoseRedTarot, and also on Instagram @RoseRedTarot, or you can find me at Tarot Visions podcast, on iTunes and Pod Bean. ANDREW: Nice! And links in the show notes. And, Melissa?  MELISSA: If you Google Little Fox Tarot, you'll find me. I'm out there! ANDREW: Perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, and yeah, it's been really fun and ridiculous, and thanks for agreeing and disagreeing but certainly for showing up, so, awesome!   

Paige and Andrew talk about the magickal power of art in their lives. They also talk about spirits, shamanism, shaman sickness, magick, geography and the power of plants.  You can find paige on her website here and on social media (Facebook INSTAGRAM). If you are interested in supporting this podcast though our Patreon you can do so here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for listening! If you dig this please subscribe and share with those who would like it. Andrew   If you are interested in booking time with Andrew either in Toronto or by phone or Skype from anywhere click here.   ANDREW: I want to first start off by saying, big thank you to all the wonderful people who are supporting the Patreon for this podcast. They are getting some awesome bonus stuff, like special recordings, sneak peeks of art work and other projects that I'm working on, and they are helping grow this podcast. They are helping move towards the goal of providing transcriptions so that deaf people can take part in these conversations, and they are also helping support the work that I do, running down guests, getting people on the show, coordinating people in different time zones and on other sides of the planet, and, finally, they're helping improve the production value of this podcast by allowing me to start considering acquiring better equipment and get away from some of the janky duct-taped together process I've been doing for a long time. If you dig the podcast, jump over to Patreon.com/thehermitslamp and pitch in. Every dollar helps.  So, welcome to The Hermit's Lamp podcast. I am here today with Paige Zaferiou, and she is a tarot reader, and all around magical being, and I thought it was time for us to have some conversations so that people could get to know her and see what she's about. So, for people who don't know you, Paige, who are you? What are you up to? What's going on over there?  PAIGE: Hi, Andrew! Yeah, thank you so much for having me! First of all, it's such a pleasure to be here on your esteemed podcast. My whole dealio, I guess, is I'm a so-called eclectic shamanic artist, which is a bunch of words that means I use a variety of different media, very eclectic media, to do a variety of things. I am a tarot reader, and an astrologer, and a ritualist, and spirit-initiated shaman, as well as a fine artist. I do watercolors, book binding artist books, tarot/oracle decks, and other visual media, and all of it really is united by my very Aries enthusiasm. That's really my jam. I just love being here. I'm so happy to be an incarnated being right now. What a time to be alive!  ANDREW: Definitely. What a time to be alive, huh? [laughs] PAIGE: Mmmhmm, mmmhmmm. [laughs] ANDREW: So, when I hear you talk about what all the things that you're up to… PAIGE: Mmmhmm… ANDREW: I feel like hey, you and I have this in common, right, an artist and ritualist and many of those things, maybe not the astrologer part, I don't feel—that's more of an amateur thing for me than a more serious thing, but, how do you sort of hold that together, you know?  PAIGE: Oh, that's a good question! Well, I guess I'll start by saying that, for the context in my life: I am someone who has been diagnosed with ADHD, from a very young age, maybe an unusually young age. When I was about seven years old, I was recruited for a medical study at Mass General Hospital on girls with ADHD, and I was part of that medical study for 13 years, and so the context for my life has always been, one who is able to hold many things in the sort of container of my mind, practice, and daily life with, if not ease, a sort of natural— ANDREW: Mmmhmm.  PAIGE: —just sort of that just is how it is. There's always been a lot going on in my life, and the juggling act has been something that I guess you could apply the old saying of it's about the journey, not the destination?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. PAIGE: There is a certain enjoyment I get from juggling all the things that I do and all the different pieces, and part of that joy is in pattern recognition, is in looking for the patterns between things that might seem to be very different, but they have a sort of underlying, unifying pattern of some kind, and finding out what that is has been part of the joy for me—even if it's not readily apparent and even if I still don't quite have all the answers for what that might be, it's something I enjoy very much, that mystical constant searching, for WHY do I do the things I do, what is it about this that draws me, why am I called in this direction, and surrendering myself to the joy of the journey, and the joy of seeking those answers. Which is definitely a big part of being a shaman as well, and the shamanic technology is about the journey is the experience, the journey is the answer, the question is the answer, being able to hold all those things at one time.  ANDREW: Yeah, I dig it. I feel like for me, the sort of diversity of what I do is more, I mean I think of it as, there are just times where applying myself in different ways makes more sense, you know?  PAIGE: Mmmhmm.  ANDREW: You know, it's like, what does this person need? Well, they need some art made, and the art will help them get into that space, you know, and for me, it's kind of this sort of constant search, not so much like in terms of a journey, although I mean it's obviously a journey, but more so in the sense of a constant search for better ways to articulate and express myself.  PAIGE: Mmmm.  ANDREW: You know, and I feel like, it's about finding those spaces where I'm present and able to be present and share from that place, whether that's cards or art or, you know, any of the other kinds of things that I get into, so.  PAIGE: Yeah, absolutely!  ANDREW: So, how… you said “spirit-led shamanism.” How did that come about? Like, where was the start of that for you?  PAIGE: Oh, my gosh! I would say the real start of that was when I was about 25, maybe, I was in my, you know, early, mid-twenties, I was really starting to deepen my relationship to the tarot, and it all started when I got this tarot deck, the Wildwood Tarot, that you are probably familiar with. And it's very Druidic, a kind of shamanic deck, and it started drawing me in towards the path of shamanism, and I really felt called to explore that more, and begin to educate myself and basically called up my parents and said, you know, “Mom, Dad, I think I want to be a shaman,” and they said, “Oh, that's really funny! You were baptized by a shaman woman when you were a baby!”  ANDREW: Uh-huh. PAIGE: And, oh! ANDREW: Imagine that!  PAIGE: So, I began to explore more deeply and then after a couple of years, in early 2015, I experienced shaman sickness, very suddenly, very frighteningly, the unexplained illness that mimics physical death… ANDREW: Yeah. PAIGE: …under the tutelage of an initiatory helping spirit who had been in my life for about a year, year and a half, really, really strongly, and it all suddenly came together, and the shaman sickness has been coming kind of in waves, deepening. Every year or so, I'll have another bout. I just actually, very recently, experienced another level of shaman sickness, and so, when I say spirit-led initiation, that's what I mean, I have helping spirits who are not physical, human people, but on the spiritual level who are guiding me through these initiatory experiences, teaching me some more shamanic technology, helping me encounter the different cases, the different problems that will come across my path for me to really engage with on the shamanic level, and… So there wasn't, other than the woman who baptized me when I was a baby, there really wasn't an incarnated human person guiding me on this path other than the teachers and authors who… Works that I've read, whose writings I've engaged with, whose teachings I've engaged with. It's never been a one to one physical mentorship on this path so far, with the exception of the other shamans I've encountered, who are fairly few and far between, the shamans who've encountered shaman sickness thrust upon them unexpectedly…  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. PAIGE: …and gone through that journey as well.  ANDREW: How did, how did you, how did you know that it was shaman sickness? Like what differentiated that?  PAIGE: One of the, I don't know if this is a copout answer, but I just sort of knew, on one level, but it was the first level, I just sort of knew, this is something not entirely physical, there's something really deep happening here, and part of how I knew were, there were the clues that later, when I encountered other shamans who'd experienced the same thing, we were able to compare notes and say, “okay, okay, now I see what's really happening here!” Some of those signs included increased encounters with spirits of the dead… ANDREW: Mmmhmm. PAIGE: …very intense encounters with spirits of the dead, symptoms of spiritual attack, the presence of the initiatory helping spirit, and some of the plant helping spirits associated with that spirit. The complete unexplained nature of the illness, there was no—each time it's happened there's been really no traceable source, it just sort of happened.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. PAIGE: And then the, all the messages, signs, and omens that I was receiving during the periods around that time that made it clear, like, you're going through an initiatory experience here, and it wasn't all nicely neatly revealed at one time, like “Here's what's happening, here's why, here's who we are, it's part of your team, like enjoy this nice, clarified experience!” [laughs] ANDREW: [laughs] “Here's your access card to the bat cave,” you know?  PAIGE: [laughing] Right! ANDREW: And “you're now on the team,” right?  PAIGE: “Here's your welcome package! Read through your pamphlets!” Wouldn't that be nice? But, yeah, so it kind of unfolded over the last couple of years, I really was able to retroactively contextualize it and affirm that which at the time I just sort of knew to be what was happening.  ANDREW: I think it's always interesting how different ways of knowing fit into these kinds of journeys, you know, there's— PAIGE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: —there's the thing that we feel at the time, and then there's the sort of deeper moments of clarity that come later— PAIGE: Mmm. ANDREW: —that, then as you say, sort of trickle backwards, you know?  PAIGE: Yeah. ANDREW: And, you know, like when I got initiated in the Orisha tradition, one of the things that they talked about was the fact that these spirits had been with me since childhood, you know, guiding me and looking out for me, and, you know, it's like, I mean I grew up in small town Ontario— PAIGE: Mmmhmm! ANDREW: It's not something that I expected, you know? And yet I knew that the influence of spirit was there for a long time, so. PAIGE: Yeah, exactly. ANDREW: Yeah.  PAIGE: [garbled] ANDREW: Yeah, it's always a challenge, you know, because I run a store, and because it's open, you know, I deal with anybody off the street a lot, people often arrive with such, like, concrete ideas of what's going on? PAIGE: Mmm.  ANDREW: And I'm almost like, whoa, slow down! Slow, let's find out, let's look, let's see what it is now, maybe so, right? And then let's explore and verify and deepen that understanding, and, you know, and then sort of, and then, and then we'll get to that moment that you're talking about where it starts to congeal until you can see what the actual story is.  PAIGE: Yeah. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. PAIGE: Definitely, there's almost like a detective kind of element to it where you, you're gathering your evidence, you're observing, but you're trying not to judge and just be like, okay, I'm just going to be with what this is, what is this? ANDREW: Yeah.  PAIGE: And what is my, what are my extra senses telling me about this that I might not be able to verify yet, with actual evidence, but I'm just going to be with that and see how it plays out over time.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah, exactly.  PAIGE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: So, how does the art fit into it for you?  PAIGE: Ohhhhh, the art. That's something as well as the spirit that's just always been there, but it's been a little bit more clearly defined through the years, because it's a little bit more—it's easier to kind of contextualize art, and I come from a family of artists. I don't necessarily come from a family of shamans, so I always had the artistic context for my life that enabled me to really dig into that and to have that as this support and this means of exploring my experience. Art was always something you could turn to, to dig into that, and it took me until college to find really my medium and my happy place.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. PAIGE: I was extremely fortunate. I studied at the University of Massachusetts, in my home state, and it just so happened that one of the professors there was a renowned watercolor artist named Richard Yarde, who has since passed, rest in peace. He was an absolute master of the craft, and really taught me a lot about the medium and created a space for me to really say wow, this is what this is for me, and it was just like that with the tarot. Tarot was not my first divination tool, the I Ching was my first divination tool. ANDREW: Hmm.  PAIGE: My mother taught me to throw the I Ching as a teenager, but when I encountered the tarot, as a fine artist, I was like, oh, man, this is it! This is the stuff, right here!  ANDREW: Yeah, yeah! PAIGE: Words and pictures and symbols? Sign me up! ANDREW: I'm down! PAIGE: Mmm! So down! ANDREW: Yeah! PAIGE: [laughs] And then realizing that I'd been painting like a watercolorist all those years, but I didn't have the skills with the medium, ‘cause it's a very difficult medium. ANDREW: Yeah.  PAIGE: Notoriously so, but, with the confidence of a great master behind me, to explore that, get to know that, and then take it from there, kind of, so, watercolor has always been my primary medium, since then, and—when you were talking earlier about all the different things that you do, and the different ways we can kind of understand that for ourselves, the first thing I thought of was fine art, was how, even though you might have your medium that you work in, and your type of work you do, I tend to be a portrait artist, I tend to be a fairly figurative illustrative artist, but I get a lot of influence from other disparate art branches, I guess, and artists who've gone before, and engaging with other artists as ancestors of spirit has been one of the things that's really bridged the gap for me between the visual arts and the spiritual arts, the sacred arts. Recently, here in Salem, there's an exhibit at the Peabody Essex Museum on Georgia O'Keefe… ANDREW: Uh-huh. PAIGE: …for example, and it's a very unique exhibit. It looks at her as a sort of icon of modern style, is the phrase they're using, so it's not just her art but also photographs of her, also her clothes that she made, her shoes that she wore, her jewelry that she wore, and piecing together this narrative of the unified, not only the art she was making but the way she lived her life all cohesing together in this—  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. PAIGE: —in this beautiful tapestry of existence that really spoke to me as both a visual artist and a spiritual artist, if that makes sense.  ANDREW: It does! I mean, I think that, you know, this sort of notion of, I mean, my friend Fabeku would call it lineage, right?  PAIGE: Yes, yes! ANDREW: And like, I, I think of, I don't think of a lot of artists as part of my lineage, but I like really strongly identify with both sort of Dali and Andy Warhol as sort of— PAIGE: Oh, yeah… ANDREW: —profound influences, you know, and I find that I turn to that at different times to sort of reconnect with what does it mean to be an artist? you know, and sometimes, in some cases, what does it mean to be sort of like a wild artist, or you know, this sort of out there on the edges of, like, where art and life and context and style and all of these things coalesce, right?  PAIGE: Yeah! ANDREW: And they all have symbolic power that could be accessed in one way or another, you know?  PAIGE: Mmmhmmm. ANDREW: You know, and I think that there are those artists that really bring that forward in a way, that makes a lot of sense for me, and it reminds me to sort of allow that to continue to unfold in my own life, you know?  PAIGE: Yeah, absolutely!  ANDREW: Yeah. I always find it interesting how art, and artists find their way, you know? I started out, I went to, I used to paint figuratively, and then I went to art school and did a lot of postmodern sculpture— PAIGE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: —and then I was basically like, screw all that business, I HATE it. PAIGE: [laughing] ANDREW: And then I didn't make art for a long time. PAIGE: Mmmmmmm.  ANDREW: And then I got back into painting, with like wash and stuff, and going back to, you know, very figurative stuff, and then, starting maybe about five years ago, I realized as I was like looking for like, less and less hairs on my brush so I could make finer and finer details, I was like, I want to change this direction up, I want to shake it up, and so I started moving into a much more open and exploratory kind of way, and you know, so, I made some art for a show that's opening in Elora, in Ontario next week, on the tarot card The Lovers—  PAIGE: Ohhh… ANDREW: You know it's by Shelley Carter, so, who did the Elora Tarot deck, and is a wonderful tarot person, and artist, and previous guest of the show, and when I showed the work to her and a few other people, they reminded them of like Basquiat matte, so, it's just like a long journey from, you know, sort of figurativeness to this very sort of loose and colorful and intense and accidental work that you know is really fun. And I've gone, I've also gone digital… PAIGE: Ohhh… ANDREW: …so I make all my work on my iPad, because I found that having kids made this sort of convenient excuse, I can never get to making art, I'm like, I have an iPad, I can get a stylus, I can do something, you know?  PAIGE: Mmmhmmm.  ANDREW: So. But, yeah. So that's definitely an area where the art is the journey for me in some ways. That's where my journey happens, because it's definitely, it's rarely a thing that I sit down and think about what it's gonna be, I just sit down and start working, and then I allow stuff to emerge, so.  PAIGE: Oh, that's lovely. Mmmhmm. I'm fascinated by the different ways that artists make art.  ANDREW: Yeah, for sure. PAIGE: Endless permutations. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. PAIGE: Mmmhmm. I've recently, just very recently, relocated to Salem, and one of the first things I did upon moving in was to establish a weekly art night with some local friends, none of whom are very serious visual artists, but, so, therefore watching them work has really shaken things up for me… ANDREW: Yeah. PAIGE: …has been something wonderful and seeing how they go about their art-making with no formal training, with no expectations for themselves, with like a self-styled fine artist, they're just having fun and making marks on paper and that's been a nice shake-up for me.  ANDREW: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's always, it's really interesting to sort of have those opportunities to see different ways of working and different people's approaches and stuff. PAIGE: Yeah. ANDREW: You know, I made a tarot deck last year, which is coming out later this year, so a lot of that in the end became very like, shut up, sit down, and make art. [laughs] To get ‘em done! Twenty-two cards to go, 18 cards to go, you don't feel like it, too bad, make the art! You know? PAIGE: [laughing] Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And it's the thing that I used to think would really kind of quash my inspiration or creativity, but you know, for me, showing up means everything else that wants to come out will show up too, you know, and so… PAIGE: Exactly! ANDREW: …and I think that, that, that, it's something that I didn't really understand previously, you know? Just sort of pushed through that process really brought that out in a way that has permanently I think changed my relationship to making stuff, so.  PAIGE: Mmm, that's beautiful! Yeah…What I've been finding lately is in order to get myself pysched up for the big project I'm working on whenever I go to the studio, ‘cause this is a big year for me in working on my own tarot decks as well, to take that pressure off myself a little bit I'll start the day by working on some kind of fun, quote unquote “throwaway” project. ANDREW: Yeah.  PAIGE: Some text art, or some pop culture-based art, or something just for me, or a gift for a friend, and just kind of like working those muscles out, you know. ANDREW: Mmmhmm.  PAIGE: And it's been wonderful fun and seeing the little things that came out as a result of my warm-up exercises, it's some of my favorite stuff I've ever made!  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. PAIGE: Funny that happens, sometimes. ANDREW: Exactly, exactly. I think that, you know, we need to take things seriously, but we need to like, not be serious about them while we're taking them seriously! [laughs] PAIGE: [laughing] Exactly!!! ANDREW: For sure. So, where were you before you moved to Salem?  PAIGE: Let's see, I moved around a bit. Right before Salem, I was in Brooklyn… ANDREW: Yeah. PAIGE: …for a year, and before that I was out, I spent nine months as a hermit in the woods of far western Massachusetts, just hermiting, completely out, living all, completely alone, making art, figuring some stuff out, and before that I was in San Francisco for about five years, and had the most wonderful time. That's where my first shaman sickness happened, that's where I started my business, that's where a lot of really important moving forward stuff happened for me, and as well, that's where art started to happen for me again. I stopped making art for a little bit after I graduated from school, I was living in England, and having one of those periods… I've noticed in my life, my art will go through these phases where I'll be just sort of absorbing, I'll be in a place, like for me England was so full of experience, I didn't have time to make art, I was too busy soaking it in, and then I left England, moved to California, and started making art about everything that I had just seen and done.  ANDREW: Right. Yeah.  PAIGE: And, it didn't hurt that in the city I was living with my elderly artist aunt, who is one of the most prolific artists I've ever met, and she's, you know, a full-time artist… ANDREW: Yeah. PAIGE: …the amount of work she made was just phenomenal, and the amount of exploration she was willing to do was phenomenal. So, getting in there with her and really cranking out work, and seeing what it looked like to really let yourself fail, at art, every day, was really inspirational, and really helped get my productivity levels up to the point where I was able to start my business and have things happening every day, and oh, it was such a journey, such a good time. ANDREW: [laughing] Yeah, it can't always be good, right, sometimes it's just like, ah, that was horrible, you know? PAIGE: [laughing] Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And sometimes, and sometimes like, I remember when I was creating my first deck, which was just a set of majors, and I was trying to do the High Priestess, and I was like… It was the one, like I think I did like 20 iterations of it before I finally realized what actually needed to go on, and I was like, oh, okay, that's the answer, I'm gonna now, now I can do it. And then once I started, something emerged, and it really was like a letting go, you know?  PAIGE: Yeah. ANDREW: For me, I was doing… The premise of my first deck is what happens just before what we're accustomed to seeing, and how does that influence and help us understand the card, right?  PAIGE: Oh, I love that. ANDREW: Why did the Fool leave his house, right? Why did the Emperor, what did—what does the Emperor do before they get on the throne, right? And what was the High Priestess doing before, you know, she sat there, you know, in contemplation, right? And, and I was, I kept trying to draw her face, and in the end, what I realized was that the thing that the High Priestess does, even though it's already such an inward card, that she's even more inward before that, you know, and so I ended up drawing the back of her facing her altar, and praying, and sitting, and contemplating spirit directly, right? It was just like, it was one of those things, and I was like, what does her face look like, what's her expression, why is she doing what she's doing, right? And then in the end it was like, I don't know, I have no idea what her face looks like. PAIGE: [laughs] ANDREW: You know? And it was that kind of giving that up that allowed it to unfold, to become what I thought was really great in the end, so.  PAIGE: Mmmhmm. That right there, that's it, that's the, that's one of, for me, the intersection between the fine art and the shamanism, really came to life, was, the shamanism allowed me to listen even more closely to the art that wanted to come out and not to impose my will as Creator, but to just let it come through me, and just to listen, and to treat it as a living spirit thing that wants to get physical form. It started to flow so much better, with my own tarot decks that I'm working on. Now it's not me Trying To Come Up with the Best Idea, I'm just letting it tell me what it is.  ANDREW: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Let me get my smarts on and I'll make something really great, right?  PAIGE: [laughing] Exactly! ANDREW: I look back at, there's an abandoned project that might get resurrected in a new form, but I started this sort of gnostic kabbalistic esoteric deck and it's not bad, like there's nothing wrong with it, but it wasn't entirely alive either… PAIGE: Yeah…. ANDREW: Because it was very, very structured and intellectual, you know, and— PAIGE: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And there are other decks, I mean, I think the Toth deck, and like the Hermetic Tarot and stuff, they walk that line where they're still alive, and they have those layers of symbolism, but when I was working on this deck it never got there, right? It was very mathematical, in its way, you know, and that kind of didn't work out very well in the longer run of that arc, so, yeah, we'll see.  I'm curious how moving around has impacted your shamanic stuff, you know? Are you a shaman of place, or do the spirits just follow you wherever you go and adapt?  PAIGE: I'd say a little bit of both. The spirits of the land are very much an important part of my practice and my experience, and it's like… This is probably an imperfect metaphor, but it's a little bit like being non-monogamous in romantic relationships, which is my natural bent anyway, and so I have these deep important relationships with very different spirits of land, with the U.K., with San Francisco, with New England where I'm from and I'm living again, and, to have come back to New England, after having been to all these other places and really developed this intense deep relationship with those spirits of land has been wonderful.  The northern shore of Massachusetts is a very unusual place. I don't know exactly why, but it is, and everyone seems to agree, everyone who's been here, lived here, is like yup, this is weird, this place is weird, there's a lot of weirdos here, we're uniquely weird, but there's something about having left and come back with more shamanic knowledge that is ELECTRIC, and I'm still figuring that out, but I love all the spirits of land, and I maintain my identity as a traveler very strongly, so that I'm keeping the dialogue open between myself and those lands, and a big part of my regular practice involves obviously grounding here in the land and grounding everything that I'm doing, all the offerings that I make, all the engagements I have, are tapped into the land here and anchored in the land here, or the land wherever I am, and that's always the first thing I do, move to a new place, ground and anchor in that land, get to know what it feels like under the surface— ANDREW: Yeah.   PAIGE: —and I carry them with me in this way that's, I don't want to quite compare it to the Borg from Star Trek, but it's this sort of absorption— [laughing] ANDREW: Uh-huh. PAIGE: —into myself and into my practice that just feels right, and, it's like having friends all over the world, you know, I maintain those relationships even though it's long distance sometimes, I visit them when I can, I still communicate with them since I'm still here on Planet Earth and all those places are here on Planet Earth, I can still kind of long distance communicate, like “hey, what's up, California? how you doing? I'm good. How are you? Fine!” [laughs] ANDREW: Yeah. PAIGE: And seeding those relationships by physically mailing things there sometimes, you know, things to my people who are there, and it feels in a weird way like being a kind of secret agent, or something.  ANDREW: Mmm.  PAIGE: I'm not sure quite why, but I have that feeling of like, yeah, you know, I've got my, my agents in all the different places, and we're checking in, like, “How's the land doing? Oh, is it good? Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, I'll do some work for you long d-, okay, cool, cool, cool, yeah, we'll work on it, it's all happening, it's good, yeah!” and, I get a lot of loving flac from my mother about this. ANDREW: [laughing] Okay!  PAIGE: She likes to tease me about being what she calls a “serial obsessive.” You know, you get hyper-fixated on an interest and you just sort of absorb everything you can from it, you absorb it into your very being, and then you kind of like internalize the vitality of that place, that thing, whatever it is, and then you move on, you know like, all right, I absorbed San Francisco, next, next stop New York! What [garbled]… ANDREW: Ba ba ba ba! All of Brooklyn!  PAIGE: [laughing] ANDREW: So that you're like, it's like a spiritual Godzilla, just show up, eat the area, be like, ah, I got it, I'm ready, next! [laughing] PAIGE: [laughing] Yeah. ANDREW: That's fun. Yeah, I often, like, check in with the land, wherever I end up, you know?  PAIGE: Yeah.  ANDREW:  I mean, not always, it depends on where I am and what I'm doing. Like I was away this last weekend, but we were just doing so much structured stuff that I was like, I don't have the time to sleep enough, let alone like, connect to what's going on, but when I'm in other places, you know, definitely, you know, and like, when I was in China last year, ‘cause one of the first things I did the first night I arrived was like, I'm like, I feel so disorientated, I just need to, like, spend some time connecting with the earth here so I can be here and then do what I need to do for the time that I'm around and working and stuff, so, you know, yeah.  PAIGE: Oh yeah.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. I think it's interesting how spirits can kind of come and go, you know? Or like step forward and step back, you know?  PAIGE: Yeah, absolutely! Absolutely! And I've noticed the same thing happens with tarot decks. I work with a lot of different decks; I have a huge stack of them right over here on the floor and they will step forward or step back as needed. Sometimes Tarot of the Cat People just wants to be all up in my face, and that's the only deck I'll read with for weeks or months, and then they'll be like, all right, I've said what I needed to say right now, move on, and it will step back and it will sort of stop, you know, working for me kind of, like, okay, all right, next, and another deck will step forward and be like, now I want to work with you right now. Or there'll be two of them vying for attention at the same time. And it's the same with the rest of my spirits. They'll step forward, step back.  ANDREW: Do you feel the spirits of the cards, have a spirit?  PAIGE: Oh absolutely, yeah. I feel that each card has a spirit and that each deck has its own spirit, definitely, mmmhmm. And they're like people, as well, you know, sometimes you meet people and you instantly click and it's amazing, and sometimes you meet people and you're like, I just do not get you. I can't read you, I don't know what you're about, you are a mystery to me. And there are decks like that for me. I'll look at them and be like, mmm, do not know what you're sayin'. Can't understand a word of what you're trying to say. ANDREW: Yeah, I feel, I run into people who have that way of, or that experience, and it's never really been my experience, so I'm always very curious about it, because for me, I have one spirit that helps me with reading the cards… PAIGE: Mmmhmmm. ANDREW: And, they've been around for the whole time I've been working with cards, but over time they've basically been like, no no no, this kind of deck, no no no, that deck. You know? And, so there's been this sort of, well, literally my guide came forward one time and said, “if you would like to give good readings, then read with the Tarot de Marseilles. If you don't care, do whatever you like. But that's where you're going to be better.”  PAIGE: [laughing] ANDREW: And I was like, all right, and then it was this process of nailing down which deck was the most like the one that she read with when she was alive, and that was also a process of, okay, so it was the Marseilles, and then it was the Jean Noblet, and then it was this photo reproduction of the deck from the Bibliotechnique National in France that Joseph Peterson put out, and now she's like, that's, that is, it's not THE deck she had, but it is the closest that she thinks is left that I'll ever be able to get at.  PAIGE: That is fascinating!  ANDREW: And so, it's funny for me because, I mean I run a store, and I, you know, I teach lots of things, I deal with lots of different decks, kind of for other people and on other people's behalf, but for me, I'm kind of done.  PAIGE: Yeah! ANDREW: You know when Joseph's deck came out, you know, I just took three of them and put them in the drawer, on top of the one that I was already reading with, because I was like, that's it, I need to make sure I have enough forever, you know?  PAIGE: Mmmhmm, yeah!  ANDREW: Yeah.  PAIGE: Wow!  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. PAIGE: That's so cool!  ANDREW: So, with your approach though, do you feel like the decks themselves have an entity or a consciousness that you're interacting with? Or are they like the Borg, they're different units that are plugging into your central, you know, central shamanic hub as it were, and they're just kind of variable extensions of parts of your consciousness?  PAIGE: That's a great question! I feel it may be a little bit of both. Ultimately my experience of the decks is as these sort of entities, these spirit entities, but those entities themselves feel like a bit of an amalgamation, you know, that are made up of the unique spirit of that deck, the sort of personality of the deck, which itself is made up of each of the cards, and each card has its own entity and own personality and its own spiritual, yeah, sense of beingness, which may be slightly different or very different depending on the different decks, but each card has its [inaudible]. I can compare it to astrology in a way, you know you're looking at, everyone has the planet Mars in their chart, but each planet in a different sign has a different flavor, it feels different, it acts differently, it will come across a different way, it will interact with the rest of those planets and signs and houses in what ultimately equates to a unique personality, a unique expression of being.  ANDREW: Sure.  PAIGE: And, and yeah, that is very much how I encounter the decks, is like people, which is what we are, we're amalgamations of our parents, our lineage, everything we've ever done and seen, as well as our own unique flair and flavor.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. For sure.  PAIGE: Mmmhmm.  ANDREW: Yeah. Neat. Yeah, I'm always curious because, for me and my practice, there's a sort of distinction that I draw between what are sort of object concrete entities in their own right, and what are these sort of other things that are constructs, or topography, or convenient symbol and language that these entities or even parts of my consciousness or unconsciousness might sort of pop on to sort of deliver messages or frame the conversation, so I love sort of thinking about these things because I'm always very curious about what's, what it is that's going on when people are working in other styles or other approaches, you know? So. Yeah.  PAIGE: I suppose my style is very animistic, which has always been my world view and always been my experience of the world, even as a child, things are alive, and they talk to me, and they engage with me, and as a child it upset me very much when people didn't treat objects with the same respect that they treated people, certain objects, anyway. I don't know if it was across the board, all objects, all the time, but for the most part, things that I could tell were, had a force of some kind attached to them. It would deeply upset me when people did not treat them that way, but of course, as a child I did not have the vocabulary to share that with other children, explain to them why it upset me that you disrespected me and this object by cavalierly tossing it about. “How dare you, child?”  ANDREW: “How dare you, that rock, it had a lot of things to say!”  PAIGE: [laughing] “No, I'll give you another rock!” “Yeah, but that was my friend, that rock was my friend! You threw my friend away!” [outraged sound] I remember one time as a child, we were, our class was on a field trip to the high school. ANDREW: Mmmhmm.  PAIGE: And it was shortly after the movie The Indian in the Cupboard had come out, and the VHS tapes came with a little plastic Indian from the movie, the replica, and I just was captivated. This little plastic man was like a friend to me, and I carried him in my pocket everywhere I went, and one of the bullies in my class, we were in the bathroom, all taking our bathroom break, and she grabbed it out of my hands and threw it in the air just as someone flushed a toilet and came out of the stall and down it went, and was flushed away. And all of us just stood there with our mouths open like, I can't believe that just happened. What are the odds that that's where it would land? And I had no, I was completely flabbergasted, I had no words to explain the depth of the hurt that had just been done to me. They were like, I'll buy you a new one, whatever; I'm like, no, you don't understand, that guy, that was my guy! ANDREW: That was the one. PAIGE: That was the one! I don't care if it's an identical plastic mold; it's not the same.  ANDREW: Yeah. And there are those things, right?  PAIGE: Yeah.  ANDREW: It's funny, it's interesting to me too, because there are those things that I work with and use spiritually, you know, like I often carry like a crystal or other things that I'm kind of working with at a given time, and those things definitely, some of them, they all have an aliveness to them that I work with for sure. Some of them I get so attached to, and some of them, when they end up going away, I'm just like, ah, whatever. Like, you know, eh, your time is done, you wanted to be elsewhere or what have you, right, and I'm like, ah, it's fine. And then other things, like when they kind of, you know, get shuffled somewhere, or you know, like take them out and realize it's time to have a break, and then they resurface, and it's like, wow, how did I ever even stop working with this energy, you know? I used to work with St. Expedite a lot… PAIGE: Oh, yeah!  ANDREW: And I recently found, I mean I always kind of knew where it was, but, recently sort of came across a painting that I had done of him. PAIGE: Cool. ANDREW: And immediately it started talking to me. And I was like—and it wasn't mad, it wasn't like, dude, you've been hiding me away, it's like all right, I'm ready, you're ready, let's go, let's do some more stuff together. I'm like, all right, let's do it.  PAIGE: I love that. Mmmhmm!  ANDREW: Yeah.  PAIGE: That is a blessing of getting older, was learning like, okay, I might misplace this, but it will come back when the time is right.  ANDREW: Yeah.  PAIGE: As a child, you know, not knowing that this sort of totemic energy attached to that toy, very, was, could possibly return to me in another form, that it was not intrinsically tied to this little plastic molded toy. As a child, you don't have the context for that. But as an adult spiritual practitioner realizing okay, you know, que sera sera.  ANDREW: Yeah, there's not only one way in which that energy can come through to you, right?  PAIGE: Mmmhmm, exactly.  ANDREW: There's not only one place or one kind or one…yeah, for sure.  PAIGE: And it might be in the best interest for it to step back for awhile, for both of you, you know, and then come back again and have you realize, oh wow! Yeah! Your value is so important to me—and having that time away really makes you feel that.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. For sure. Yeah. Do you do a lot of plant ally stuff too? Do you have plant allies that you're working with?  PAIGE: Oh, yes, oh yes.  ANDREW: Uh-huh?  PAIGE: I've always, it's always been, it's not my greatest strength, and it's been a source of great frustration to me, my whole life, because my mother is a gardener and she has quite the green thumb. She can make anything grow. And I do not seem to have inherited that gift. So the living plants in my life that I work with tend to be wild. Wild plants are my main spirit allies. And as well, I work with tea. Tea is my guy. The plant, the [garbled] sense is plant as well as tea [garbled] and other herbs brewed as tea both with the tea plant and on their own and that's been something that has always been tied to my magical and spiritual practice. The year that I really got involved in witchcraft, as a young person, was the same year that I got introduced to tea.  ANDREW: Right.  PAIGE: Almost within a few months of each other.  ANDREW: Yeah.  PAIGE: And it's, they were very present, as well, in my shaman sickness. I had ingested some spirit allies, some plant spirit allies that really were carrying the physical aspect of the illness for me, and shifting that perspective. And it's something that I've been deepening in the past couple of years, but is endlessly fascinating to me, and part of what's helped deepen that is creating friendships with some really talented plant shamans and plant workers. In unpacking, I just uncovered my flying ointments from Sarah Anne Lawless, which are some of my favorite tools to work with. It fascinates me the way that plants affect different people different ways, depending on your body chemistry. I know people who cannot drink tea after maybe 2 or 3 pm because the caffeine will keep them up.  ANDREW: Yeah.  PAIGE: I can drink a pot of black tea at midnight and be fine.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm.  PAIGE: No problem.  ANDREW: And that's also not uncommon among people who have that ADHD kind of thing, right?  PAIGE: Yeah exactly, it almost works the opposite, sometimes, or it's just like meh, no problem.  ANDREW: Whatevs.  PAIGE: Caffeine? Don't know her. Never met her.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. [laughs] PAIGE: [laughing] ANDREW: That's awesome. It's really interesting how we all have places or kinds of things that open more easily to us, you know?  PAIGE: Yeah.  ANDREW: Like the, whether it's a particular plant, or whether it's, you know, plants versus minerals versus you know, in your case, pigments and water, versus you know, whatever, right? I think that we have these sort of natural inclinations, and, you know, I mean, just like in our astrology charts, sort of sorting them out and finding out where those fortes and good places to start and so on can be so helpful, you know?  PAIGE: Oh yeah, absolutely, and one of the things I do often with clients when I'm working with clients who are seeking to understand their own spiritual gifts better, is looking at your childhood. What were you drawn to as a child? For me, it was animals. Animals was my jam. And so now, as an adult, I find not coincidentally that a lot of the shamanic work I do is animal spirit totems, helping spirits who are specifically animals. Do a lot of animal retrieval, and it's one of the easiest things for me to do, it takes, it can take maybe 30 seconds, to go on a shamanic journey and retrieve an animal helping spirit. It is such an easy flow for me, whereas plants and the language of plants is something much more private and personal that I really have to consciously work on and deepen. Except for that small handful of plant allies that are just like, you, me, let's do this. ANDREW: Let's go! Ride or die!  PAIGE: [laughing] Exactly!  ANDREW: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, I am one of those people, I have a very green thumb, so I can grow all sorts of stuff and you know. Actually, the pomegranate plant that we have at the store just grew its first pomegranate, which was super exciting, so you know, it's, yeah. Definitely good, you know? And I love to, I spent a lot of time in my childhood, I lived sort of on the edge of town where it was sort of mostly forest between our place and the next place… PAIGE: Lovely. ANDREW: And so, I spent a lot of time in the woods, just kicking around, playing games with my friends, or just hanging out, you know? And it's something I love to do now and near the store there's nice ravines that run through Toronto… PAIGE: Mmm.  ANDREW: And I would just go in there, and hang out, and stuff happens, it's wonderful, and they just start talking, and you know, yeah.  PAIGE: Oh, yeah. The forest! Oh, what a magical place! That's been one of my favorite things about coming back to New England, the woods of New England are really important for me.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm.  PAIGE: Really special. Today happens to be 19 years to the day since the first group ritual I ever did.  ANDREW: Wow.  PAIGE: Blue moon, January 1999, I invited a couple of girls from school over to my house, and one of them, her mother was, must have been Wiccan, or something, and she kind of taught us how to do your basic circle casting, calm the quarters, kind of thing. We had a little ritual. We went around the circle, went around the table, took turns saying nice things about each other and then after some round blue frosted scones, my mother drove us to the woods, and we climbed this abandoned stone tower that's in the middle of the woods by the golf course in my home town. And I have some photographs, I'm so glad I have actual photographs of us on that tower, under the moon with the moon in the background, these little girls, having a great time, and those woods really held it and anchored it, for that to be the ending of our first ritual ever. And we loved it so much we were like, you know what, let's just, let's do this again next month? On the full moon? How about that? For a bunch of 11-year-olds, that was a pretty good commitment. We managed it for maybe six solid months, meeting every full moon and those woods really were the catalyst. They were the… ANDREW: Amazing.  PAIGE: …the container for that. It was so—mmm. There's something about being here and then the trees of this land that's just like yep. These are like my grandparents.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm.  PAIGE: They took care of me! Thanks, guys!  ANDREW: [laughs] I love it. I definitely love it! So if you're listening, go find your trees, go hang out with them! [garbled, both talking at once] Yeah, spend some time with it, right?  PAIGE: Mmmhmm.  ANDREW: Yeah. The last few years whenever I go to New York and go to Reader's Studio, which is a conference there, at the place where they were having it, there were these cherry trees out front, and they'd usually be blossoming then, so that would be just like all the flowers on the ground… PAIGE: Love it.  ANDREW: And, you know. After, like a few days with like 200 other people doing readings around you and stuff, I'd just be like, overwhelmed! And I would just go out there and, you know, stand there and, last year, I was standing under the tree and the wind came and swirled around me and lifted all those petals up and… PAIGE: Ohhhhh.  ANDREW: There was like this sort of bath of those flowers and the tree and I had my hands on it just grounding myself and stuff. I'm like, I'm ready for more, let's go! You know? It can be so wonderful.  PAIGE: Oh! That's beautiful. Oh yeah.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Well. It has been delightful chatting with you. For people who want to follow your orbit and see your art and other wonderful things that you're up to, where should they go? Where are you hanging out online?  PAIGE: Well, you can find me on social media, @tarotandtea. You can also find me on Instagram @paigezaferiou, just my name, and at paigezaferiou.com. And that's Paige with an I, and Zaferiou is Z A F E R I O U, and you can remember to spell that because it has all the vowels in alphabetical order, A E I O U.  ANDREW: And we'll put a link in the show notes in case “it spells just like it sounds” doesn't quite work out.  PAIGE: [laughing] ANDREW: Awesome. Well thank you so much Paige, it's been wonderful.  PAIGE: Thank you so much for having me, Andrew, it's been such a pleasure.  ANDREW: Thank you, as always, for listening. I hope you've really enjoyed it. A big thanks to the lovely human beings who have put some wonderful reviews on Itunes for the podcast. Please do consider supporting the Patreon. You know I sound like a PBS ad, but seriously, even a dollar helps. It all adds up towards being able to make all sorts of exciting things happen, both for yourself and for others. So head on over to Patreon.com/thehermitslamp, or use the link in the show notes. Talk to you soon. Bye bye. 

In this rare and treasured opportunity, we are joined by scholar, author, editor and legendary esoteric authority, Joseph Peterson. Joe has translated, edited and updated many classic esoteric texts of magic, and founded two vital websites in the spiritual and esoteric communities:http://esotericarchives.com/http://avesta.org/In this interview, we talk about both of those websites, and Joe shares about what it really takes to do serious esoteric research, his own personal spiritual practice, how magic and religion intertwine, Zoroastrianism, grimoiric magic in the light of a dualistic approach to the universe, and so much more.

In this rare and treasured opportunity, we are joined by scholar, author, editor and legendary esoteric authority, Joseph Peterson. Joe has translated, edited and updated many classic esoteric texts of magic, and founded two vital websites in the spiritual and esoteric communities:http://esotericarchives.com/http://avesta.org/In this interview, we talk about both of those websites, and Joe shares about what it really takes to do serious esoteric research, his own personal spiritual practice, how magic and religion intertwine, Zoroastrianism, grimoiric magic in the light of a dualistic approach to the universe, and so much more.

In this episode paleontologist Dr. Joseph Peterson discusses his research into injuries discovered in the domes of pachycephalosaurs. Dinosaur George answers listener submitted questions in the “ask Dinosaur George” segment.    

In this episode paleontologist Dr. Joseph Peterson discusses his research into injuries discovered in the domes of pachycephalosaurs. Dinosaur George answers listener submitted questions in the “ask Dinosaur George” segment.    

WOW!  This is a long one, but a great one.  Buckle up for this two-hour lecture from Joseph Peterson on the Sworn Book of Honorius.   Joseph Peterson is a renowned scholar of the magical grimoires. Through his web site esotericarchives.com, Joseph has made ancient grimoires availalbe to the public for study and research for many years. His annotations with his notes and research has provided unequaled insight and understanding to modern magicians seeking to tap into the lore and power of the traditional Grimoire traditions.

Alma 43-52—War chapters! Why did Mormon dedicate so much of the Book of Alma to chapters on the atrocities of war? What do we learn of attrition and liberty? Don’t miss Captain Moroni and the title of liberty! What makes a good leader? There are some surprisingly interesting lessons here given the current election climate in the United States. Joseph Peterson is with us.

In this edition of The Roundtable Podcast Joseph Peterson, Westside's new Director of Youth, joins Norm and James and shares his story and the passion he has for youth ministry.

Our 3rd bonus episode - and this time, it's all about Christmas! This show features 4 familiar carols and 2 fun originals - with artists new to the show as well as fan favorites. Everything is yuletide and easy on the ears - just perfect for unwinding after a hectic day, maybe sorting & wrapping presents, or just a quiet December evening chiling by the tree! Whatever your reason - thanks for spending it with us :)Pictured - Tim Riddle; photo by Craig Jacobowitz. visit our Facebook pageHosts: Allison Paris & Kenny MacKenzie  Kenny host "Jazz Greats" on WFCF Saint Augustine - every Tuesday from 3-5pm EST. Listen online here!Kenny's Twitter - @DJKendo11. Introduction - Allison & Kenny2. "Angels We Have Heard On High" - Valerie Gillespie (Tampa, FL)   websiteValerie Gillespie - soprano sax, Rick Steuert - keyboards,Joe Renda - drums, David Rudolph - percussionfrom the album "It Can't Be Christmas Without You"purchase at Amazon, CD Baby or Itunes3. "Silent Night" - Gregorie Howard (Tampa, FL)    websiteGregorie Howard - trumpetLes Sabler - guitarAllon Sams - keyboards & drum programming(Unreleased)Gregorie's debut album is available at Amazon & Itunes.4. Announcements - Kenny(background music from the album "Live in the City" by Jack Pierson)5. "The First Noel" - Robert Harris (Orlando, FL)    websiteRobert Harris - all instrumentsFrom the album "My Christmas" Purchase album at Robert's website store.6. "Christmas Beat" - Sybil Gage (Cocoa Village, FL)    websiteSybil Gage - vocals, Leon Olguin - keyboardsStudio Elves - ??Unreleased single availble for free at reverbnation!7. Announcements - Kenny(background music from the album "Moved" by Kenny MacKenzie Trio)8. "It Can't Be Christmas Without You" - Valerie Gillespie  (Tampa, FL)    websiteValerie Gillespie - vocals, Rick Steuert - keyboards, Joe Renda - drums, David Rudolph - percussion from the album "It Can't Be Christmas Without You"purchase at Amazon, CD Baby or Itunes9. "We Three Kings" - Tim Riddle (Wesley Chapel, FL)    websiteTim Riddle - guitar, Nick Esposito - guitar,Joseph Peterson - bass, Frank Parente - drumsfrom the album "That Christmas Feeling"Purchase album at CD Baby or Itunes.10. Announcements - Kenny(background music from the album "Second Chances" by Allison Paris)11. Closing Announcements - Allison Palm Coast Jazz closing theme by Seven Octaves.produced by Kenny MacKenzie If you are a jazz musician residing in Florida with quality recordings of your original music (new or old) and would like to submit for future podcasts, please contact us at palmcoastjazz@gmail.com All recordings and compositions are the property of their respective performers and composers, all rights reserved. This podcast copyright 2012 Kenny MacKenzie. All rights reserved.