Podcast appearances and mentions of Robert Harris

Brian Castro's “The Chinese Postman” is a meditation on old age with a central character whose life mirrors his own. The story strays into fiction when the protagonist, Abe Quin, begins a correspondence with a woman seeking refuge from the war in Ukraine. This acclaimed work of autofiction is short-listed for this year’s Miles Franklin Award. + In Bronwyn Rivers’ menacing thriller “The Reunion” five friends meet for a weekend on a lonely property in the Blue Mountains. Ten years earlier they were amongst a group of six who went hiking in the area …only five returned. Now the survivors are being stalked by someone who wants to know what really happened to their friend Ed – it seems everyone has something to hide. + Our very assiduous random reader, Lesley, is currently reading “Pompeii” by Robert Harris and “Under the Banner of Heaven” by Jon Krakauer. She’s listening to the audio version of “Limberlost” by Robbie Arnott. Piled on her tsundoku are “The Island of Sea Women” by Lisa See, “The Wedding People” by Alison Espach, The Shardlake Series by CJ Sansom and “Kairos” by Jenny Erpenbeck. Guests Brain Castro, author of “Chinese Postman”Bronwyn Rivers, author of “The Reunion” Other books that get a mention: Brian mentions a poem by TS Eliot, “The Waste Land” Bronwyn mentions inspirational crime writers Agatha Christie and PD James Sarah mentions the DS Walker series of thrillers by Patricia Wolf Annie is reading Charlotte McConaghy’s “Wild Dark Shore” INSTAGRAM@giramondopublishing@hachetteaus@bronwynriversauthorSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Brian Castro's “The Chinese Postman” is a meditation on old age with a central character whose life mirrors his own. The story strays into fiction when the protagonist, Abe Quin, begins a correspondence with a woman seeking refuge from the war in Ukraine. This acclaimed work of autofiction is short-listed for this year’s Miles Franklin Award. + In Bronwyn Rivers’ menacing thriller “The Reunion” five friends meet for a weekend on a lonely property in the Blue Mountains. Ten years earlier they were amongst a group of six who went hiking in the area …only five returned. Now the survivors are being stalked by someone who wants to know what really happened to their friend Ed – it seems everyone has something to hide. + Our very assiduous random reader, Lesley, is currently reading “Pompeii” by Robert Harris and “Under the Banner of Heaven” by Jon Krakauer. She’s listening to the audio version of “Limberlost” by Robbie Arnott. Piled on her tsundoku are “The Island of Sea Women” by Lisa See, “The Wedding People” by Alison Espach, The Shardlake Series by CJ Sansom and “Kairos” by Jenny Erpenbeck. Guests Brain Castro, author of “Chinese Postman”Bronwyn Rivers, author of “The Reunion” Other books that get a mention: Brian mentions a poem by TS Eliot, “The Waste Land” Bronwyn mentions inspirational crime writers Agatha Christie and PD James Sarah mentions the DS Walker series of thrillers by Patricia Wolf Annie is reading Charlotte McConaghy’s “Wild Dark Shore” INSTAGRAM@giramondopublishing@hachetteaus@bronwynriversauthorSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Karla und Günter stellen vier Bücher vor, die uns aus der Komfortzone holen. Franka fährt mit Ende Zwanzig zurück in die fränkische Provinz und erinnert sich daran, wie sie sich als Jugendliche den Dorf-Rechten angeschlossen hatte. Sie geht auf Spurensuche und entdeckt, welche Schuld ihre Familie in der Nazi-Zeit auf sich geladen hatte. In „Unter Grund“ erzählt Annegret Liepold klar und unaufgeregt vom Umgang mit der Vergangenheit. Pennsylvania im 19. Jahrhundert: Der junge Arzt Dr. Silas Weir wird Direktor der Nervenheilanstalt für Frauen. Dort führt er grausame Experimente an den Insassinnen durch – bis eines seiner Opfer Rache übt. „Der Schlächter“ ist ein düsteres Bild von Misogynie und Rassismus, meisterhaft erzählt von Joyce Carol Oates. Zwei gut betuchte Ehepaare machen Urlaub in der Toskana. Tochter Sophie Luise darf ihre Schulfreundin Aayana mitnehmen, ein Flüchtlingskind aus Somalia. Es kommt zur Katastrophe: Das Mädchen ertrinkt im Swimming-Pool. Wie gehen die reichen Urlauber mit ihrem Tod um? „Die spürst du nicht“ von Daniel Glattauer entlarvt die Doppelmoral privilegierter Menschen. Der Papst ist tot, und das Konklave tritt zusammen, um einen neuen Papst zu bestimmen. Plötzlich tritt ein völlig unbekannter Kandidat auf den Plan, der Bischof von Bagdad. Der Kampf um den Heiligen Stuhl beginnt. „Konklave“ von Robert Harris ist aufregend wie ein Polit-Thriller und der perfekte Pageturner für den Urlaub! Die Titel dieser Folge: Annegret Liepold: “Unter Grund” (Blessing). Joyce Carol Oates: “Der Schlächter” (Blessing). Daniel Glattauer: “Die spürst du nicht” (Goldmann). Robert Harris: “Konklave” (Heyne). Auch als Hörbuch erschienen. +++ Viel Spaß mit dieser Folge. Wir freuen uns auf euer Feedback an podcast@penguinrandomhouse.de!” +++ Unsere allgemeinen Datenschutzrichtlinien finden Sie unter https://art19.com/privacy. Die Datenschutzrichtlinien für Kalifornien sind unter https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info abrufbar.

In this interview, Lamorna Ash, author of Don't Forget We're Here Forever: A New Generation's Search for Religion, and one of my favourite modern writers, talked about working at the Times Literary Supplement, netball, M. John Harrison, AI and the future of religion, why we should be suspicious of therapy, the Anatomy of Melancholy, the future of writing, what surprised her in the Bible, the Simpsons, the joy of Reddit, the new Pope, Harold Bloom, New Atheism's mistakes, reading J.S. Mill. I have already recommended her new book Don't Forget We're Here Forever, which Lamorna reads aloud from at the end. Full transcript below.Uploading videos onto Substack is too complicated for me (it affects podcast downloads somehow, and the instructions to avoid this problem are complicated, so I have stopped doing it), and to upload to YouTube I have to verify my account but they told me that after I tried to upload it and my phone is dead, so… here is the video embedded on this page. I could quote the whole thing. Here's one good section.Lamorna: Which one would you say I should do first after The Sea, The Sea?Henry: Maybe The Black Prince.Lamorna: The Black Prince. Great.Henry: Which is the one she wrote before The Sea, The Sea and is just a massive masterpiece.Lamorna: I'll read it. Where do you stand on therapy? Do you have a position?Henry: I think on net, it might be a bad thing, even if it is individually useful for people.Lamorna: Why is that?Henry: [laughs] I didn't expect to have to answer the question. Basically two reasons. I think it doesn't take enough account of the moral aspect of the decisions being made very often. This is all very anecdotal and you can find yourself feeling better in the short term, but not necessarily in the long-- If you make a decision that's not outrageously immoral, but which has not had enough weight placed on the moral considerations.There was an article about how lots of people cut out relatives now and the role that therapy plays in that. What I was struck by in the article that was-- Obviously, a lot of those people are justified and their relatives have been abusive or nasty, of course, but there are a lot of cases where you were like, "Well, this is a long-term decision that's been made on a short-term basis." I think in 10 years people may feel very differently. There wasn't enough consideration in the article, at least I felt, given to how any children involved would be affected later on. I think it's a good thing and a bad thing.Lamorna: I'm so with you. I think that's why, because also the fact of it being so private and it being about the individual, and I think, again, there are certain things if you're really struggling with that, it's helpful for, but I think I'm always more into the idea of communal things, like AAA and NA, which obviously a very particular. Something about doing that together, that it's collaborative and therefore there is someone else in the room if you say, "I want to cut out my parent."There's someone else who said that happened to me and it was really hard. It means that you are making those decisions together a little bit more. Therapy, I can feel that in friends and stuff that it does make us, even more, think that we are these bounded individuals when we're not.Henry: I should say, I have known people who've gone to therapy and it's worked really well.Lamorna: I'm doing therapy right now and it is good. TranscriptHenry: Today I am talking to Lamorna Ash. Lamorna is one of the rising stars of her generation. She has written a book about a fishing village in Cornwall. She's written columns for the New Statesman, of which I'm a great admirer. She works for a publisher and now she's written a book called, Don't Forget, We're Here Forever: A New Generation's Search for Religion. I found this book really compelling and I hope you will go and read it right now. Lamorna, welcome.Lamorna Ash: Thank you for having me.Henry: What was it like when you worked at the Times Literary Supplement?Lamorna: It was an amazing introduction to mostly contemporary fiction, but also so many other forms of writing I didn't know about. I went there, I actually wrote a letter, handwritten letter after my finals, saying that I'd really enjoyed this particular piece that somehow linked the anatomy of melancholy to infinite jest, and being deeply, deeply, deeply pretentious, those were my two favorite books. I thought, well, I'll apply for this magazine. I turned up there as an intern. They happened to have a space going.My job was Christmas in that I just spent my entire time unwrapping books and putting them out for editors to swoop by and take away. I'd take on people's corrections. I'd start to see how the editorial process worked. I started reading. I somehow had missed contemporary fiction. I hadn't read people like Rachel Kask or Nausgaard. I was reading them through going to the fiction pages. It made me very excited. Also, my other job whilst I was there, was I had the queries email. You'd get loads of incredibly random emails, including things like, you are cordially invited to go on the Joseph Conrad cycle tour of London. I'd ask the office, "Does anyone want to do this?" Obviously, no one ever said yes.I had this amazing year of doing really weird stuff, like going on Joseph Conrad cycling tour or going to a big talk at the comic book museum or the new advertising museum of London. I loved it. I really loved it.Henry: What was the Joseph Conrad cycling tour of London like? That sounds-Lamorna: Oh, it was so good. I remember at one point we stopped on maybe it was Blackfriars Bridge or perhaps it was Tower Bridge and just read a passage from the secret agent about the boats passing underneath. Then we'd go to parts of the docks where they believe that Conrad stayed for a while, but instead it would be some fancy youth hostel instead.It was run by the Polish Society of London, I believe-- the Polish Society of England, I believe. Again, each time it was like an excuse then to get into that writer and then write a little piece about it for the TLS. I guess, it was also, I was slightly cutting my teeth on how to do that kind of journalism as well.Henry: What do you like about The Anatomy of Melancholy?Lamorna: Almost everything. I think the prologue, Democritus Junior to the Reader is just so much fun and naughty. He says, "I'm writing about melancholy in order to try and avoid melancholy myself." There's six editions of it. He spent basically his entire life writing this book. When he made new additions to the book, rather than adding another chapter, he would often be making insertions within sentences themselves, so it becomes more and more bloated. There's something about the, what's the word for it, the ambition that I find so remarkable of every single possible version of melancholy they could talk about.Then, maybe my favorite bit, and I think about this as a writer a lot, is there's a bit called the digression of air, or perhaps it's digression on the air, where he just suddenly takes the reader soaring upwards to think about air and you sort of travel up like a hawk. It's this sort of breathing moment for a reader where you go in a slightly different direction. I think in my own writing, I always think about digression as this really valuable bit of nonfiction, this sense of, I'm not just taking you straight the way along. I think it'd be useful to go sideways a bit too.Henry: That was Samuel Johnson's favorite book as well. It's a good choice.Lamorna: Was it?Henry: Yes. He said that it was the only book that would get him out of bed in the morning.Lamorna: Really?Henry: Because he was obviously quite depressive. I think he found it useful as well as entertaining, as it were. Should netball be an Olympic sport?Lamorna: [laughs] Oh, it's already going to be my favorite interview. I think the reason it isn't an Olympic-- yes, I have a vested interest in netball and I play netball once a week. I'm not very good, but I am very enthusiastic because it's only played mostly in the Commonwealth. It was invented a year after basketball as a woman-friendly version because women should not run with the ball in case they get overexerted and we shouldn't get too close to contacting each other in case we touch, and that's awful.It really is only played in the Commonwealth. I think the reason it won't become an Olympic sport is because it's not worldwide enough, which I think is a reasonable reason. I'm not, of all the my big things that I want to protest about and care about right now, making that an Olympic sport is a-- it's reasonably low on my list.Henry: Okay, fair enough. You are an admirer of M. John Harrison's fiction, is that right?Lamorna: Yes.Henry: Tell us what should we read and why should we read him?Lamorna: You Should Come With Me Now, is that what it's called? I know I reviewed one of his books years ago and thought it was-- because he's part of that weird sci-fi group that I find really interesting and they've all got a bit of Samuel Delany to them as well. I just remember there was this one particular story in that collection, I think in general, he's a master at sci-fi that doesn't feel in that Dune way of just like, lists of names of places. It somehow has this, it's very literary, it's very odd, it's deeply imaginative. It is like what I wanted adult fiction to be when I was 12 or something, that there's the way the fantasy and imagination works.I remember there was one about all these men, married men who were disappearing into their attics and their wives thought they were just tinkering. What they were doing was building these sort of translucent tubes that were taking them off out of the world. I remember just thinking it was great. His conceits are brilliant and make so much sense, whilst also always being at an interesting slant from reality. Then, I haven't read his memoir, but I hear again and again this anti-memoir he's written. Have you read that?Henry: No.Lamorna: Apparently that's really brilliant too. Then he also, writes those about climbing. He's actually got this one foot in the slightly travel nature writing sports camp. I just always thought he was magic. I remember on Twitter, he was really magic as well. I spent a lot of time following him.Henry: Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future of writing and literature and books and this whole debate that's going on?Lamorna: It's hard to. I don't want to say anything fast and snappy because it's such a complicated thing. I could just start by saying personally, I'm worried about me and writing because I'm worried about my concentration span. I am so aware that in the same way that a piano player has to be practising the pieces they're going to play all the time. I think partly that's writing and writing, I seem to be able to do even with this broken, distracted form of attention I've got. My reading, I don't feel like I'm getting enough in. I think that means that what I produce will necessarily be less good if I can't solve that.I've just bought a dumb phone on the internet and I hope that's going to help me by no longer having Instagram and things like that. I think, yes, I suppose we do read a bit less. The generation below us is reading less. That's a shame. There's so much more possibility to go out and meet people from different places. On an anthropological level, I think anthropology has had this brilliant turn of becoming more subjective. The places you go, you have to think about your own relationship to them. I think that can make really interesting writing. It's so different from early colonial anthropology.The fact that, I guess, through, although even as I'm saying this, I don't know enough to say it, but I was going to say something about the fact that people, because we can do things like substacks and people can do short form content, maybe that means that more people's voices are getting heard and then they can, if they want to, transfer over and write books as well.I still get excited by books all the time. There's still so much good contemporary stuff that's thrilling me from all over the place. I don't feel that concerned yet. If we all do stop writing books entirely for a year and just read all the extraordinary books that have been happening for the last couple of thousand, we'd be okay.Henry: I simultaneously see the same people complaining that everything's dying and literature is over and that we have an oversupply of books and that capitalism is giving us too many books and that's the problem. I'm like, "Guys, I think you should pick one."Lamorna: [laughs] You're not allowed both those arguments. My one is that I do think it's gross, the bit of publishing that the way that some of these books get so oddly inflated in terms of the sales around them. Then, someone is getting a million pounds for a debut, which is enormous pressure on them. Then, someone else is getting 2K. I feel like there should be, obviously, there should be a massive cap on how large an advance anyone should get, and then more people will actually be able to stay in the world of writing because they won't have to survive on pitiful advances. I think that would actually have a huge impact and we should not be giving, love David Beckham as much as I do, we shouldn't be giving him five million pounds for someone else to go to write his books. It's just crazy.Henry: Don't the sales of books like that subsidize those of us who are not getting such a big advance?Lamorna: I don't think they always do. I think that's the problem is that they do have this wealth of funds to give to celebrities and often those books don't sell either. I still think even if those books sell a huge amount of money, those people still shouldn't be getting ridiculous advances like that. They still should be thinking about young people who are important to the literary, who are going to produce books that are different and surprising and whose voices we need to hear. That feels much more important.Henry: What do you think about the idea that maybe Anglo fiction isn't at a peak? I don't necessarily agree with that, but maybe we can agree that these are not the days of George Eliot and Charles Dickens, but the essay nonfiction periodicals and writing online, this is huge now. Right? Actually, our pessimism is sort of because we're looking in the wrong area and there are other forms of writing that flourish, actually doing great on the internet.Lamorna: Yes, I think so too. Again, I don't think I'm internet worldly enough to know this, but I still find these extraordinary, super weird substats that feel exciting. I also get an enormous amount of pleasure in reading Reddit now, which I only just got into many, many years late, but so many fun, odd things. Like little essays that people write and the way that people respond to each other, which is quick and sharp, and I suppose it fills the gap of what Twitter was.I think nonfiction, I was talking about this morning, because I'm staying with some writers, because we're sort of Cornish, book talk thing together and how much exciting nonfiction has come out this year that we want to read from the UK that is hybrid-y nature travel. Then internationally, I still think there's-- I just read, Perfection by Vincenzo, but there's enough translated fiction that's on the international book list this year that gets me delighted as well. To me, I just don't feel worried about that kind of thing at all when there's so much exciting stuff happening.I love Reddit. I think they really understand things that other people don't on there. I think it's the relief now that when you type in something to Google, you get the AI response. It's something like, it's so nice to feel on Reddit that someone sat down and answered you. Maybe that's such a shame that that's what makes me happy now, that we're in that space. It does feel like someone will tell you not just the answer, but then give you a bit about their life. Then, the particular tool that was passed down by their grandparents. That's so nice.Henry: What do you think of the new Pope?Lamorna: I thought it was because I'd heard all the thing around fat Pope, thin Pope, and obviously, our new Pope is maybe a sort of middle Pope, or at least is closer to Francis, but maybe a bit more palatable to some people. I guess, I'm excited that he's going to do, or it seems like he's also taking time to think, but he's good on migration on supporting the rights of immigrants. I think there's value in the fact of him being American as this being this counterpoint to what's happening in America right now. If feels always feels pointless to say because they're almost the idea of a Pope.I guess, Francis said that, who am I to judge about people being gay, but I think this Pope has so far has been more outly against gay people, but he stood up against JD Vance and his stupid thoughts on theology. I'm quietly optimistic. I guess I'm also waiting for Robert Harris's prophecy to come true and we get an intersex Pope next. Because I think that was prophecy, right? What he wrote.Henry: That would be interesting.Lamorna: Yes.Henry: The religious revival that people say is happening, particularly among young people, how is AI going to make it different than previous religious revivals?Lamorna: Oh, that's so interesting. Maybe first of all, question, sorry, I choked on my coffee. I was slightly questioned the idea if there is a religious revival, it's not actually an argument that I made in the book. When I started writing the book, there wasn't this quiet revival or this Bible studies and survey that suggests that more young people are going to church hadn't come out yet. I was just more, I guess, aware that there were a few people around me who were converting and I thought it'd be interesting if there's a few, there'll be more, which I think probably happens in every single generation, right? Is that that's one way to deal with the longing for meaning we all experience and the struggles in our lives.I was speaking to a New York Times journalist who was questioning the stats that have been coming out because first it's incredibly small pool. It's quite self-selecting that possibly there are people who might have gone to church already. It's still such a small uptick because it makes it hard to say anything definitive. I guess in general, what will the relationship be between AI and religion?I guess, there are so many ways you could go with that. One is that those spaces, religious spaces, are nicely insulated from technology. Not everywhere. Obviously, in some places they aren't, but often it's a space in which you put your phone away. In my head, the desire to go to church is as against having to deal with AI or having to deal with technology being integrated to every other aspect of my life.I guess maybe people will start worshiping the idea of the singularity. Maybe we'll get the singularity and Terminator, or the Matrix is going to happen, and we'll call them our gods because they will feel like gods. That's maybe one option. I don't know how AI-- I guess I don't know enough about AI that maybe you'll have AI, or does this happen? Maybe this has happened already that you could have an AI confession and you'd have an AI priest and they tell you--Henry: Sure. It's huge for therapy, right?Lamorna: Yes.Henry: Which is that adjacent thing.Lamorna: That's a good point. It does feel something about-- I'm sure, theologically, it's not supposed to work if you haven't been ordained, but can an AI be ordained, become a priest?Henry: IndeedLamorna: Could they do communion? I don't know. It's fascinating.Henry: I can see a situation where a young person lives in a secular environment or culture and is interested in things and the AI is the, in some ways, easiest place for them to turn to say, "I need to talk about-- I have these weird semi-religious feelings, or I'm interested." The AI's not going to be like, "Oh, really? That's weird." There's the question of will we worship AI or whatever, but also will we get people's conversions being shaped by their therapy/confessors/whatever chat with their LLM?Lamorna: Oh, it's so interesting. I read a piece recently in the LRB by James Vincent. It was about AI relationships, our relationship with AI, and he looked at AI girlfriends. There was this incredible case, maybe you read about it, about a guy who tried to kill the Queen some years back. His defense was that his AI girlfriend had really encouraged him to do that. Then, you can see the transcripts of the text, and he says, "I'm thinking about killing the Queen." His AI girlfriend is like, "Go for it, baby."It's that thing there of like, at the moment, AI is still reflecting back our own desires or refracting almost like shifting how they're expressed. I'm trying to imagine that in the same case of me saying, "I feel really lonely, and I'm thinking about Christianity." My friend would speak with all of their context and background, and whatever they've got going on for them. Whereas an AI would feel my desire there and go, "That's a good idea. It says online this." It's very straight. It would definitely lead us in directions that feel less than human or other than human.Henry: I also have this thought, you used to, I think you still do, but you see it less. You used to get a Samaritan's Bible in every hotel. The Samaritans, will they start trying to install a religious chatbot in places where people--? There are lots of ways in which you could use it as a distribution mechanism.Lamorna: Which does feel so far from the point. Not to think about the gospels, but that feeling of something I talk about in the book is that, so much of it is human contact. Is that this factor of being changed in the moment, person to person. If I have any philosophy for life at the moment is this sense of desperately needing contact that we are saved by each other all the time, not by our telephones and things that aren't real. It's the surprise.I quote it in the book, but Iris Murdoch describes love is the very difficult realization that someone other than yourself is real. I think that's the thing that makes us all survive, is that reminder that if you're feeling deeply depressed, being like, there is someone else that is real, and they have a struggle that matters as much as mine. I think that's something that you are never going to get through a conversation with a chatbot, because it's like a therapeutic thing. You are not having to ask it the same questions, or you are not having to extend yourself to think about someone else in those conversations.Henry: Which Iris Murdoch novels do you like?Lamorna: I've only read The Sea, The Sea, but I really enjoyed it. Which ones do you like?Henry: I love The Sea, The Sea, and The Black Prince. I like the late books, like The Good Apprentice and The Philosopher's Pupil, as well. Some people tell you, "Don't read those. They're late works and they're no good," but I was obsessed. I was absolutely compelled, and they're still all in my head. They're insane.Lamorna: Oh, I must, because I've got a big collection of her essays. I'm thinking is so beautiful, her philosophical thought. It's that feeling, I know I'm going the wrong-- starting in the wrong place, but I do feel that she's someone I'd really love to explore next, kind of books.Henry: I think you'd like her because she's very interested in the question of, can therapy help, can philosophy help, can religion help? She's very dubious about therapy and philosophy, and she is mystic. There are queer characters and neurodivergent characters. For a novelist in the '70s, you read her now and you're like, "Well, this is all just happening now."Lamorna: Cool.Henry: Maybe we should be passing these books out. People need this right now.Lamorna: Which one would you say I should do first after The Sea, The Sea?Henry: Maybe The Black Prince.Lamorna: The Black Prince. Great.Henry: Which is the one she wrote before The Sea, The Sea and is just a massive masterpiece.Lamorna: I'll read it. Where do you stand on therapy? Do you have a position?Henry: I think on net, it might be a bad thing, even if it is individually useful for people.Lamorna: Why is that?Henry: [laughs] I didn't expect to have to answer the question. Basically two reasons. I think it doesn't take enough account of the moral aspect of the decisions being made very often. This is all very anecdotal and you can find yourself feeling better in the short term, but not necessarily in the long-- If you make a decision that's not outrageously immoral, but which has not had enough weight placed on the moral considerations.There was an article about how lots of people cut out relatives now and the role that therapy plays in that. What I was struck by in the article that was-- Obviously, a lot of those people are justified and their relatives have been abusive or nasty, of course, but there are a lot of cases where you were like, "Well, this is a long-term decision that's been made on a short-term basis." I think in 10 years people may feel very differently. There wasn't enough consideration in the article, at least I felt, given to how any children involved would be affected later on. I think it's a good thing and a bad thing.Lamorna: I'm so with you. I think that's why, because also the fact of it being so private and it being about the individual, and I think, again, there are certain things if you're really struggling with that, it's helpful for, but I think I'm always more into the idea of communal things, like AAA and NA, which obviously a very particular. Something about doing that together, that it's collaborative and therefore there is someone else in the room if you say, "I want to cut out my parent."There's someone else who said that happened to me and it was really hard. It means that you are making those decisions together a little bit more. Therapy, I can feel that in friends and stuff that it does make us, even more, think that we are these bounded individuals when we're not.Henry: I should say, I have known people who've gone to therapy and it's worked really well.Lamorna: I'm doing therapy right now and it is good. I think, in my head, it's like it should be one among many and I still question it whilst doing it.Henry: To the extent that there is a religious revival among "Gen Z," how much is it because they have phones? Because you wrote something like, in fact, I have the quote, "There's a sense of terrible tragedy. How can you hold this constant grief that we feel, whether it's the genocide in Gaza or climate collapse? Where do I put all the misery that I receive every single second through my phone? Church can then be a space where I can quietly go and light a candle." Is it that these young people are going to religion because the phone has really pushed a version of the world into their faces that was not present when I was young or people are older than me?Lamorna: I think it's one of, or that the phone is the symptom because the phone, whatever you call it, technology, the internet, is the thing that draws the world closer to us in so many different ways. One being that this sense of being aware of what's happening around in other places in the world, which maybe means that you become more tolerant of other religions because you're hearing about it more. That, on TikTok, there's loads of kids all across the world talking about their particular faiths and their background and which aspera they're in, and all that kind of thing.Then, this sense of horror being very unavoidable that you wake up and it is there and you wake up and you think, "What am I doing? What am I doing here? I feel completely useless." Perhaps then you end up in a church, but I'm not sure.I think a bigger player in my head is the fact that we are more pluralistic as societies. That you are more likely to encounter other religions in schools. I think then the question is, well then maybe that'll be valuable for me as well. I think also, not having parents pushing religion on you makes kids, the fact of the generation above the British people, your parents' generations, not saying religion is important, you go to church, then it becomes something people can become more curious about in their own right as adults. I think that plays into it.I think isolation plays into it and that's just not about technology and the phone, but that's the sense of-- and again, I'm thinking about early 20s, mid 20s, so adults who are moving from place to place, who maybe feel very isolated and alone, who are doing jobs that make them feel isolated and alone, and there are this dearth of community spaces and then thinking, well, didn't people used to go to churches, it would be so nice to know someone older than me.I don't know how this fits in, but I was thinking about, I saw this documentary, The Encampments, like two days ago, which is about the Columbia University encampments and within that, Mahmood Khalil, who's the one who's imprisoned at the moment, who was this amazing leader within the movement and is from Palestine. The phone in that, the sense about how it was used to gather and collect people and keep people aware of what's happening and mean that everyone is more conscious and there's a point when they need more people in the encampments because the police are going to come. It's like, "Everyone, use your phone, call people now." I think I can often be like, "Oh no, phones are terrible," but this sense within protest, within communal activity, how valuable they can be as well.I haven't quite gotten into that thought. I don't know, basically. I think it's so hard. I've grown up with a phone. I have no sense of how much it plays a part in everything about me, but obviously, it is a huge amount. I do think it's something that we all think about and are horrified by whilst also seeing it as like this weird extension of ourselves. That definitely plays into then culturally, the decisions we make to either try and avoid them, find spaces where you can be without them.Henry: How old do you think a child should be when they're first given a phone? A smartphone, like an iPhone type thing?Lamorna: I think, 21.Henry: Yes?Lamorna: No, I don't know. I obviously wouldn't know that about a child.Henry: I might.Lamorna: I'd love to. I would really love to because, I don't know, I have a few friends who weren't allowed to watch TV until they were 18 and they are eminently smarter than me and lots of my other friends. There's something about, I don't know, I hate the idea that as I'm getting older, I'm becoming more scaremongering like, "Oh no, when I was young--" because I think my generation was backed in loads of ways. This thing of kids spending so much less time outside and so much less time being able to imagine things, I think I am quite happy to say that feels like a terrible loss.I read a piece recently about kids in New York and I think they were quite sort of middle-class Brooklyn-y kids, but they choose to go days without their phones and they all go off into the forest together. There is this sense of saying giving kids autonomy, but at the same time, their relationship with a phone is not one of agency. It's them versus tech bros who have designed things that are so deeply addictive, that no adult can let go of it. Let alone a child who's still forming how to work out self-control, discipline and stuff. I think a good parenting thing would be to limit massively these completely non-neutral objects that they're given, that are made like crack and impossible to let go of.Henry: Do you think religious education in schools should be different or should there be more of it?Lamorna: Yes, I think it should be much better. I don't know about you, but I just remember doing loads of diagrams of different religious spaces like, "This is what a mosque looks like," and then I'd draw the diagram. I knew nothing. I barely knew the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. In fact, I probably didn't as a teenager.I remember actually in sixth form, having this great philosophy teacher who was talking about the idea of proto antisemitism within the gospels. I was like, "Wait, what?" Because I just didn't really understand. I didn't know that it was in Greek, that the Old Testament was in Hebrew. I just didn't know. I think all these holy texts that we've been carrying with us for thousands of years across the world have so much in them that's worth reading and knowing.If I was in charge of our R.E., I would get kids to write on all holy texts, but really think about them and try and answer moral problems. You'd put philosophy back with religion and really connect them and think, what is Nietzsche reacting against? What does Freud about how is this form of Christianity different like this? I think that my sense is that since Gove, but also I'm sure way before that as well, the sense of just not taking young people seriously, when actually they're thoughtful, intelligent and able to wrestle with these things, it's good for them to have know what they're choosing against, if they're not interested in religion.Also, at base, those texts are beautiful, all of them are, and are foundational and if you want to be able to study English or history to know things about religious texts and the practices of religion and how those rituals came about and how it's changed over thousands of years, feels important.Henry: Which religious poets do you like other than Hopkins? Because you write very nicely about Hopkins in the book.Lamorna: He's my favorite. I like John Donne a lot. I remember reading lots of his sermons and Lancelot Andrews' sermons at university and thinking they were just astonishingly beautiful. There are certain John Donne sermons and it's this feeling of when he takes just maybe a line from one of Paul's letters and then is able to extend it and extend it, and it's like he's making it grow in material or it's like it's a root where suddenly all these branches are coming off it.Who else do I like? I like George Herbert. Gosh, my brain is going in terms of who else was useful when I was thinking about. Oh it's gone.Henry: Do you like W.H. Auden?Lamorna: Oh yes. I love Auden, yes. I was rereading his poems about, oh what's it called? The one about Spain?Henry: Oh yes.Lamorna: About the idea of tomorrow.Henry: I don't have a memory either, but I know the poem you mean, yes.Lamorna: Okay. Then I'm trying to think of earlier religious poets. I suppose things like The Dream of the Rood and fun ways of getting into it and if you're looking at medieval poetry.Henry: I also think Betjeman is underrated for this.Lamorna: I've barely read any Betjeman.Henry: There's a poem called Christmas. You might like it.Lamorna: Okay.Henry: It's this famous line and is it true and is it true? He really gets into this thing of, "We're all unwrapping tinsely presents and I'm sitting here trying to work out if God became man." It's really good. It's really good. The other one is called Norfolk and again, another famous line, "When did the devil first attack?" It talks about puberty as the arrival of the awareness of sin and so forth.Lamorna: Oh, yes.Henry: It's great. Really, really good stuff. Do you personally believe in the resurrection?Lamorna: [chuckles] I keep being asked this.Henry: I know. I'm sorry.Lamorna: My best answer is sometimes. Because I do sometimes in that way that-- someone I interviewed who's absolutely brilliant in the book, Robert, and he's a Cambridge professor. He's a pragmatist and he talks about the idea of saying I'm a disciplined person means nothing unless you're enacting that discipline daily or it falls away. For him, that belief in a Kierkegaardian leap way is something that needs to be reenacted in every moment to say, I believe and mean it.I think there are moments when my church attendance is better and I'm listening to a reading that's from Acts or whatever and understanding the sense of those moments, Paul traveling around Europe and Asia Minor, only because he fully believed that this is what's happened. Those letters and as you're reading those letters, the way I read literature or biblical writing is to believe in that moment because for that person, they believe too. I think there are points at which the resurrection can feel true to me, but it does feel like I'm accessing that idea of truth in a different way than I am accessing truth about-- it's close to how I think about love as something that's very, very real, but very different from experiential feelings.I had something else I wanted to say about that and it's just gone. Oh yes. I was at Hay Festival a couple of weeks ago. Do you know the Philosopher Agnes Callard?Henry: Oh, sure.Lamorna: She gave a really great talk about Socrates and her love of Socrates, but she also came to my talk and she and her husband, who I think met through arguing about Aristotle, told me they argued for about half a day about a line I'd said, which was that during writing the book, I'd learned to believe in the belief of other people, her husband was like, "You can't believe in the belief of other people if you don't believe it too. That doesn't work. That doesn't make sense." I was like, "That's so interesting." I can so feel that if we're taking that analytically, that if I say I don't believe in the resurrection, not just that I believe you believe it, but I believe in your belief in the resurrection. At what point is that any different from saying, I believe in the resurrection. I feel like I need to spend more time with it. What the slight gap is there that I don't have that someone else does, or as I say it, do I then believe in the resurrection that moment? I'm not sure.I think also what I'm doing right now is trying to sound all clever with it, whereas for other people it's this deep ingrained truth that governs every moment of their life and that they can feel everywhere, or perhaps they can't. Perhaps there's more doubt than they suggest, which I think is the case with lots of us. Say on the deathbed, someone saying that they fully believe in the resurrection because that means there's eternal salvation, and their family believe in that too. I don't think I have that kind of certainty, but I admire it.Henry: Tell me how you got the title for this book from an episode of The Simpsons.Lamorna: It's really good app. It's from When Maggie Makes Three, which is my favorite episode. I think titles are horribly hard. I really struck my first book. I would have these sleepless nights just thinking about words related to the sea, and be like, blue something. I don't know. There was a point where my editor wanted to call it Trawler Girl. I said, "We mustn't. That's awful. That's so bad. It makes me sound like a terrible superhero. I'm not a girl, I'm a woman."With this one, I think it was my fun title for ages. Yes, it's this plaque that Homer has put-- Mr. Burns puts up this plaque to remind him that he will never get to leave the power plant, "Don't forget you're here forever."I just think it's a strong and bonkers line. I think it had this element of play or silliness that I wanted, that I didn't think about too hard. I guess that's an evangelical Christian underneath what they're actually saying is saying-- not all evangelicals, but often is this sense of no, no, no, we are here forever. You are going to live forever. That is what heaven means.That sense of then saying it in this jokey way. I think church is often very funny spaces, and funny things happen. They make good comedy series when you talk about faith.Someone's saying she don't forget we're here forever. The don't forget makes it so colloquial and silly. I just thought it was a funny line for that reason.Then also that question people always ask, "Is religion going to die out?" I thought that played into it. This feeling that, yes, I write about it. There was a point when I was going to an Extinction Rebellion protest, and everyone was marching along with that symbol of the hourglass inside a circle next to a man who had a huge sign saying, "Stop, look, hell is real, the end of the world is coming." This sense of different forms of apocalyptic thinking that are everywhere at the moment. I felt like the title worked for that as well.Henry: I like that episode of The Simpsons because it's an expression of an old idea where he's doing something boring and his life is going to slip away bit by bit. The don't forget you're here forever is supposed to make that worse, but he turns it round into the live like you're going to die tomorrow philosophy and makes his own kind of meaning out of it.Lamorna: By papering it over here with pictures of Maggie. They love wordplay, the writers of The Simpsons, and so that it reads, "Do it for her," instead. That feeling of-- I think that with faith as well of, don't forget we're here forever, think about heaven when actually so much of our life is about papering it over with humanity and being like, "Does it matter? I'm with you right now, and that's what matters." That immediacy of human contact that church is also really about, that joy in the moment. Where it doesn't really matter in that second if you're going to heaven or hell, or if that exists. You're there together, and it's euphoric, or at least it's a relief or comforting.Henry: You did a lot of Bible study and bible reading to write this book. What were the big surprises for you?Lamorna: [chuckles] This is really the ending, but revelation, I don't really think it's very well written at all. It shouldn't be in there, possibly. It's just not [unintelligible 00:39:20] It got added right in the last minute. I guess it should be in there. I just don't know. What can I say?So much of it was a surprise. I think slowly reading the Psalms was a lovely surprise for me because they contain so much uncertainty and anguish, and doubt. Imagining those being read aloud to me always felt like a very exciting thing.Henry: Did you read them aloud?Lamorna: When I go to more Anglo Catholic services, they tend to do them-- I never know how to pronounce this. Antiphonally.Henry: Oh yes.Lamorna: Back and forth between you. It's very reverential, lovely experience to do that. I really think I was surprised by almost everything I was reading. At the start of Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling, he does this amazing thing where he does four different versions of what could be happening in the Isaac and Abraham story underneath.There's this sense of in the Bible, and I'm going to get this wrong, but in Mimesis, Auerbach talks about the way that you're not given the psychological understanding within the Bible. There's so much space for readers to think with, because you're just being told things that happened, and the story moves on quickly, moment by moment. With Isaac and Abraham, what it would mean if Isaac actually had seen the fact that his father was planning to kill him. Would he then lose his faith? All these different scenarios.I suddenly realised that the Bible was not just a fixed text, but there was space to play with it as well. In the book, I use the story of Jacob and the angel and play around with the meaning of that and what would happen after this encounter between Jacob and an angel for both of them.Bits in the Gospels, I love the story of the Gerasene Demoniac. He was a knight. He was very unwell, and no one knew what to do with him. He was ostracised from his community. He would sit in this cave and scream and lacerate himself against the cave walls. Then Jesus comes to him and speaks to him and speaks to the demons inside him. There's this thing in Mark's Gospel that Harold Bloom talks about, where only demons are actually able to perceive. Most people have to ask Christ who he really is, but demons can perceive him immediately and know he's the son of God.The demons say that they are legion. Then Jesus puts them into 1,000 pigs. Is it more? I can't remember. Then they're sent off over the cliff edge. Then the man is made whole and is able to go back to his community. I just think there's just so much in that. It's so rich and strange. I think, yes, there's something about knowing you could sit down and just read a tiny bit of the Bible and find something strange and unusual that also might speak to something you've read that's from thousands of years later.I also didn't know that in Mark's Gospel, the last part of it is addended, added on to it. Before that, it ended with the women being afraid, seeing the empty tomb, but there's no resolution. There's no sense of Christ coming back as spirit. It ended in this deep uncertainty and fear. I thought that was so fascinating because then again, it reminds you that those texts have been played around with and thought with, and meddled with, and changed over time. It takes away from the idea that it's fixed and certain, the Bible.Henry: What did you think of Harold Bloom's book The Shadow of a Great Rock?Lamorna: I really loved it. He says that he treats Shakespeare more religiously and the Bible more like literature, which I found a funny, irreverent thing to say. There's lovely stuff in there where, I think it was Ruth, he was like, maybe it was written by a woman. He takes you through the different Hebrew writers for Genesis. Which again, becoming at this as such a novice in so many ways, realising that, okay, so when it's Yahweh, it's one particular writer, there's the priestly source for particular kinds of writing. The Yahwist is more ironic, or the God you get is more playful.That was this key into thinking about how each person trying to write about God, it's still them and their sense of the world, which is particular and idiosyncratic is forming the messages that they believe they're receiving from God. I found that exciting.Yes, he's got this line. He's talking about the blessings that God gives to men in Genesis. He's trying to understand, Bloom, what the meaning of a blessing is. He describes it as more life into a time without boundaries. That's a line that I just found so beautiful, and always think about what the meaning of that is. I write it in the book.My best friend, Sammy, who's just the most game person in the world, that you tell them anything, they're like, "Cool." I told them that line. They were like, "I'm getting it tattooed on my arm next week." Then got me to write in my handwriting. I can only write in my handwriting, but write down, "More time into life without boundaries." Now they've just got it on their arm.Henry: Nice.Lamorna: I really like. They're Jewish, non-practicing. They're not that really interested in it. They were like, "That's a good line to keep somewhere."Henry: I think it's actually one of Bloom's best books. There's a lot of discussion about, is he good? Is he not good? I love that book because it really just introduces people to the Bible and to different versions of the Bible. He does all that Harold Bloom stuff where he's like, "These are the only good lines in this particular translation of this section. The rest is so much dross.He's really attentive to the differences between the translations, both theologically but also aesthetically. I think a lot of people don't know the Bible. It's a really good way to get started on a-- sitting down and reading the Bible in order. It's going to fail for a lot of people. Harold Bloom is a good introduction that actually gives you a lot of the Bible itself.Lamorna: For sure, because it's got that midrash feeling of being like someone else working around it, which then helps you get inside it. I was reading that book whilst going to these Bible studies at a conservative evangelical church called All Souls. I wasn't understanding what on earth was going on in Mark through the way that we're being told to read it, which is kids' comprehension.Maybe it was useful to think about why would the people have been afraid when Christ quelled the storms? It was doing something, but there was no sense of getting inside the text. Then, to read alongside that, Bloom saying that the Christ in Mark is the most unknowable of all the versions of Christ. Then again, just thinking, "Oh, hang on." There's an author. The author of Mark's gospel is perceiving Christ in a particular way. This is the first of the gospels writing about Christ. What does it mean? He's unknowable. Suddenly thinking of him as a character, and therefore thinking about how people are relating to him. It totally cracks the text open for you.Henry: Do you think denominational differences are still important? Do most people have actual differences in dogma, or are they just more cultural distinctions?Lamorna: They're ritual distinctions. There really is little that you could compare between a Quaker meeting and a Catholic service. That silence is the fundamental aspect of all of it. There's a sense of enlighten.My Quaker mate, Lawrence, he's an atheist, but he wouldn't go to another church service because he's so against the idea of hierarchy and someone speaking from a pulpit. He's like, honestly, the reincarnated spirit of George Fox in many ways, in lots of ways he's not.I guess it becomes more blurry because, yes, there's this big thing in the early 20th century in Britain anyway, where the line that becomes more significant is conservative liberal. It's very strange that that's how our world gets divided. There's real simplification that perhaps then, a liberal Anglican church and a liberal Catholic church have more in relationship than a conservative Catholic church and a conservative evangelical church. The line that is often thinking about sexuality and marriage.I was interested, people have suddenly was called up in my book that I talk about sex a lot. I think it's because sex comes up so much, it feels hard not to. That does seem to be more important than denominational differences in some ways. I do think there's something really interesting in this idea of-- Oh, [unintelligible 00:48:17] got stung. God, this is a bit dramatic. Sorry, I choked on coffee earlier. Now I'm going to get stung by a bee.Henry: This is good. This is what makes a podcast fun. What next?Lamorna: You don't get this in the BBC studios. Maybe you do. Oh, what was I about to say? Oh, yes. I like the idea of church shopping. People saying that often it speaks to the person they are, what they're looking for in a church. I think it's delightful to me that there's such a broad church, and there's so many different spaces that you can go into to discover the church that's right for you. Sorry. I'm really distracted by this wasp or bee. Anyway.Henry: How easy was it to get people to be honest with you?Lamorna: I don't know. I think that there's certain questions that do tunnel right through to the heart of things. Faith seems to be one of them. When you talk about faith with people, you're getting rid of quite a lot of the chaff around with the politeness or whatever niceties that you'd usually speak about.I was talking about this with another friend who's been doing this. He's doing a play about Grindr. He was talking about how strange it is that when you ask to interview someone and you have a dictaphone there, you do get a deeper instant conversation. Again, it's a bit like a therapeutic conversation where someone has said to you, "I'm just going to sit and listen." You've already agreed, and you know it's going to be in a book. "Do you mind talking about this thing?"That just allows this opportunity for people to be more honest because they're aware that the person there is actually wanting to listen. It's so hard to create spaces. I create a cordon and say, "We're going to have a serious conversation now." Often, that feels very artificial. I think yes, the beauty of getting to sit there with a dictaphone on your notebook is you are like, "I really am interested in this. It really matters to me." I guess it feels easy in that way to get honesty.Obviously, we're all constructing a version of ourselves for each other all the time. It's hard for me to know to what extent they're responding to what they're getting from me, and what they think I want to hear. If someone else interviewed them, they would probably get something quite different. I don't know. I think if you come to be with openness, and you talk a bit about your journey, then often people want to speak about it as well.I'm trying to think. I've rarely interviewed someone where I haven't felt this slightly glowy, shimmery sense of it, or what I'm learning feels new and feels very true. I felt the same with Cornish Fisherman, that there was this real honesty in these conversations. Many years ago, I remember I got really obsessed with interviewing my mom. I think I was just always wanting to practice interviewing. The same thing that if there's this object between you, it shifts the dimensions of the conversation and tends towards seriousness.Henry: How sudden are most people's conversions?Lamorna: Really depends. I was in this conversation with someone the other day. When she was 14, 15, she got caught shoplifting. She literally went, "Oh, if there's a God up there, can you help get me out of the situation?" The guy let her go, and she's been a Christian ever since. She had an instantaneous conversion. Someone I interviewed in the book, and he was a really thoughtful card-carrying atheist. He had his [unintelligible 00:51:58] in his back pocket.He hated the Christians and would always have a go at them at school because he thought it was silly, their belief. Then he had this instant conversion that feels very charismatic in form, where he was just walking down an avenue of trees at school, and he felt the entire universe smiling at him and went, "Oh s**t, I better become a Christian."Again, I wonder if it depends. I could say it depends on the person you are, whether you are capable of having an instant conversion. Perhaps if I were in a religious frame of mind, I'd say it depends on what God would want from you. Do you need an instant conversion, or do you need to very slowly have the well filling up?I really liked when a priest said to me that people often go to church and expect to be changed in a moment. He's like, "No, you have to go for 20 years before anything happens." Something about that slow incremental conversion to me is more satisfying. It's funny, I was having a conversation with someone about if they believe in ghosts, and they were like, "Well, if I saw one, then I believe in ghosts." For some people, transcendental things happen instantaneously, and it does change them ultimately instantly.I don't know, I would love to see some stats about which kinds of conversions are more popular, probably more instant ones. I love, and I use it in the book, but William James' Varieties of Religious Experience. He talks about there's some people who are sick-souled or who are also more porous bordered people for whom strange things can more easily cross the borders of their person. They're more likely to convert and more likely to see things.I really like him describing it that way because often someone who's like that, it might just be described as well, you have a mental illness. That some people are-- I don't know, they've got sharper antennae than the rest of us. I think that is an interesting thought for why some people can convert instantly.Henry: I think all conversions take a long time. At the moment, there's often a pivotal moment, but there's something a long time before or after that, that may or may not look a conversion, but which is an inevitable part of the process. I'm slightly obsessed with the idea of quests, but I think all conversions are a quest or a pilgrimage. Your book is basically a quest narrative. As you go around in your Toyota, visiting these places. I'm suspicious, I think the immediate moment is bundled up with a longer-term thing very often, but it's not easy to see it.Lamorna: I love that. I've thought about the long tail afterwards, but I hadn't thought about the lead-up, the idea of that. Of what little things are changing. That's such a lovely thought. Their conversions began from birth, maybe.Henry: The shoplifter, it doesn't look like that's where they're heading. In retrospect, you can see that there weren't that many ways out of this path that they're on. Malcolm X is like this. One way of reading his autobiography is as a coming-of-age story. Another way of reading it is, when is this guy going to convert? This is going to happen.Lamorna: I really like that. Then there's also that sense of how fixed the conversion is, as well, from moment to moment. That Adam Phillips' book on wanting to change, he talks about our desire for change often outstrips our capacity for change. That sense of how changed am I afterwards? How much does my conversion last in every moment? It goes back to the do you believe in the resurrection thing.I find that that really weird thing about writing a book is, it is partly a construction. You've got the eye in there. You're creating something that is different from your reality and fixed, and you're in charge of it. It's stable, it remains, and you come to an ending. Then your life continues to divert and deviate in loads of different ways. It's such a strange thing in that way. Every conversion narrative we have fixed in writing, be it Augustine or Paul, whatever, is so far from the reality of that person's experience.Henry: What did the new atheists get wrong?Lamorna: Arrogance. They were arrogant. Although I wonder, I guess it was such a cultural moment, and perhaps in the same way that everyone is in the media, very excitedly talking about revival now. There was something that was created around them as well, which was delight in this sense of the end of something. I wonder how much of that was them and how much of it was, they were being carried along by this cultural media movement.I suppose the thing that always gets said, and I haven't read enough Dawkins to say this with any authority, but is that the form of religion that he was attempting to denigrate was a very basic form of Christianity, a real, simplified sense. That he did that with all forms of religion. Scientific progress shows us we've progressed beyond this point, and we don't need this, and it's silly and foolish.I guess he underestimated the depth and richness of religion, and also the fact of this idea of historical progress, when the people in the past were foolish, when they were as bright and stupid as we are now.Henry: I think they believed in the secularization idea. People like Rodney Stark and others were pointing out that it's not really true that we secularized a lot more consistency. John Gray, the whole world is actually very religious. This led them away from John Stuart Mill-type thinking about theism. I think everyone should read more John Stuart Mill, but they particularly should have read the theism essays. That would have been--Lamorna: I've only just got into him because I love the LRB Close Reading podcast. It's Jonathan Rée and James Wood. They did one on John Stuart Mill's autobiography, which I've since been reading. It's an-Henry: It's a great book.Lamorna: -amazing book. His crisis is one of-- He says, "The question of religion is not something that has been a part of my life, but the sense of being so deeply learned." His dad was like, "No poetry." In his crisis moment, suddenly realizing that that's what he needed. He was missing feeling, or he was missing a way of looking at the world that had questioning and doubt within it through poetry.There was a bit in the autobiography, and he talks about when he was in this deep depression, whenever he was at 19 or something. That he was so depressed that he thought if there's a certain number of musical notes, one day there will be no more new music because every single combination will have been done. The sense of, it's so sweetly awful thinking, but without the sense-- I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here.I found his crisis so fascinating to read about and how he comes out of that through this care and attention of beautiful literature and thinking, and through his love of-- What was his wife called again?Henry: Harriet.Lamorna: Harriet. He credits her for almost all his thinking. He wouldn't have moved towards socialism without her. Suddenly, humans are deeply important to him. He feels sorry for the fact that his dad could not express love or take love from him, and that that was such a terrible deficiency in his life.Henry: Mill's interesting on religion because he looks very secular. In fact, if you read his letters, he's often going into churches.Lamorna: Oh, really?Henry: Yes, when he's in Italy, because he had tuberculosis. He had to be abroad a lot. He's always going to services at Easter and going into the churches. For a secular person, he really appreciates all these aspects of religion. His stepdaughter was-- there's a diary of hers in their archives. She was very religious, very intense. As a young woman, when she's 16, 17, intensely Catholic or Anglo-Catholic. Really, it's quite startling.I was reading this thing, and I was like, "Wait, who in the Mill household is writing this? This is insane." There are actually references in his letters where he says, "Oh, we'll have to arrive in time for Good Friday so that she can go to church." He's very attentive to it. Then he writes these theism essays, right at the end of his life. He's very open-minded and very interrogatory of the idea. He really wants to understand. He's not a new atheist at all.Lamorna: Oh, okay. I need to read the deism essays.Henry: You're going to love it. It's very aligned. What hymns do you like?Lamorna: Oh, no.Henry: You can be not a hymn person.Lamorna: No. I'm not a massive hymn person. When I'm in church, the Anglican church that I go to in London now, I always think, "Remember that. That was a really nice one." I like to be a pilgrim. I really don't have the brain that can do this off the cuff. I'm not very musically. I'm deeply unmusical.There was one that I was thinking of. I think it's an Irish one. I feel like I wrote this down at one point, because I thought I might be asked in another interview. I had to write down what I thought in case a hymn that I liked. Which sounds a bit like a politician, when they're asked a question, they're like, "I love football." I actually can't think of any. I'm sorry.Henry: No, that's fine.Lamorna: What are your best? Maybe that will spark something in me.Henry: I like Tell Out My Soul. Do you know that one?Lamorna: Oh, [sings] Tell Out My Soul. That's a good one.Henry: If you have a full church and people are really going for it, that can be amazing. I like all the classics. I don't have any unusual choices. Tell Out My Soul, it's a great one. Lamorna Ash, this has been great. Thank you very much.Lamorna: Thank you.Henry: To close, I think you're going to read us a passage from your book.Lamorna: I am.Henry: This is near the end. It's about the Bible.Lamorna: Yes. Thank you so much. This has definitely been my favourite interview.Henry: Oh, good.Lamorna: I really enjoyed it. It's really fun.Henry: Thank you.Lamorna: Yes, this is right near the end. This is when I ended up at a church, St Luke's, West Holloway. It was a very small 9:00 AM service. Whilst the priest who'd stepped in to read because the actual priest had left, was reading, I just kept thinking about all the stories that I'd heard and wondering about the Bible and how the choices behind where it ends, where it ends.I don't think I understand why the Bible ends where it does. The final lines of the book of Revelation are, "He who testifies to these things says, Yes, I am coming soon. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus, the grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen." Which does sound like a to-be-continued. I don't mean the Bible feels incomplete because it ends with Revelation. What I mean is, if we have continued to hear God and wrestle with him and his emissaries ever since the first overtures of the Christian faith sounded.Why do we not treat these encounters with the same reverence as the works assembled in the New Testament? Why have we let our holy text grow so antique and untouchable instead of allowing them to expand like a divine Wikipedia updated in perpetuity? That way, each angelic struggle and Damascene conversion that has ever occurred or one day will, would become part of its fabric.In this Borgesian Bible, we would have the Gospel of Mary, not a fictitious biography constructed by a man a century after her death, but her true words. We would have the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch on the road between Jerusalem and Gaza from Acts, but this time given in the first person. We would have descriptions from the Picts on Iona of the Irish Saint Columba appearing in a rowboat over the horizon.We would have the Gospels of those from the early Eastern Orthodox churches, Assyrian Gospels, Syriac Orthodox Gospels. We would have records of the crusades from the Christian soldiers sent out through Europe to Jerusalem in order to massacre those of other faiths, both Muslim and Jewish. In reading these accounts, we would be forced to confront the ways in which scripture can be interpreted

Did director Edward Berger hide clues about God's will through his filmmaking choices? In episode 348, Join Luke Elliott & James Bailey as they consider symbols beyond just the turtles, compare what works better about the characters in the film, discuss their own religious backgrounds, debate a change made to a pivotal speech, and finally cast their own votes on which one's better: the book or the movie! Pickup Conclave by Robert Harris at the Ink to Film Bookshop! https://bookshop.org/shop/inktofilm Support Ink to Film on Patreon for bonus content, merch, and the ability to vote on upcoming projects! https://www.patreon.com/inktofilm Ink to Film's Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Bluesky (@inktofilm) Home Base: inktofilm.com Luke Elliott Website: www.lukeelliottauthor.com IG: https://www.instagram.com/lpelliott/ Threads: https://www.threads.net/@lpelliott Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/luminousluke.bsky.social James Bailey Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/jamebail.bsky.social IG: https://www.instagram.com/jamebail/

Lots of fun with bodily fluids and body parts, but the book reviews are star of the show! American War by Omar El Akkad Anima Rising by Christopher Moore Conclave by Robert Harris

What was it about this novel by Robert Harris that made it so ripe for an award-winning adaptation? In episode 347, join writer Luke Elliott and filmmaker James Bailey as they wade into a papal political thriller about the flawed men who are vying for the office, recount their own spiritual deconstructions, reflect on growing up as Christians, discover an unfortunate Roman Polanski connection with the author, and react to a surprising twist they didn't see coming. Join them next week for their deep dive into the film by Edward Berger! Pickup Conclave by Robert Harris at the Ink to Film Bookshop! https://bookshop.org/shop/inktofilm Support Ink to Film on Patreon for bonus content, merch, and the ability to vote on upcoming projects! https://www.patreon.com/inktofilm Ink to Film's Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Bluesky (@inktofilm) Home Base: inktofilm.com Luke Elliott Website: www.lukeelliottauthor.com IG: https://www.instagram.com/lpelliott/ Threads: https://www.threads.net/@lpelliott Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/luminousluke.bsky.social James Bailey Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/jamebail.bsky.social IG: https://www.instagram.com/jamebail/    

After Pope Francis died, it took the Roman Catholic Church just 17 days to choose a successor in Pope Leo XIV. It has been well over 6 months since Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigned and we are only just making sense of those chosen to sit on the Crown Nominations Commission (CNC), that will recommend his successor. Even then, it's unlikely we will know more until the autumn. Why has it taken so long? Journalist, commentator – and quite frankly expert – Andrew Graystone joins Damian Thompson and William Moore, the Spectator's features editor, to take listeners through the process. From committees to choose committees and confusion about the rules, as William comments, even acclaimed Conclave writer Robert Harris would struggle to make a fast-paced and riveting story out of the Anglican succession. That's not to say there isn't plenty of intrigue though: from bishops effectively ruling themselves out, to opaque appointments, and even a former head of M15 appointed to lead the CNC.  Andrew, Damian and William discuss the process, the problems plaguing it and unpack those in contention to be the next Primate of All England. The chosen successor will ultimately lead the third largest Christian communion, with around 100 million members worldwide, and play a prominent role in British society with a seat in the House of Lords and as a spiritual advisor to King and country – no pressure.   Produced by Patrick Gibbons.

After Pope Francis died, it took the Roman Catholic Church just 17 days to choose a successor in Pope Leo XIV. It has been well over 6 months since Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigned and we are only just making sense of those chosen to sit on the Crown Nominations Commission (CNC), that will recommend his successor. Even then, it's unlikely we will know more until the autumn. Why has it taken so long?Journalist, commentator – and quite frankly expert – Andrew Graystone joins Damian Thompson and William Moore, the Spectator's features editor, to take listeners through the process. From committees to choose committees and confusion about the rules, as William comments, even acclaimed Conclave writer Robert Harris would struggle to make a fast-paced and riveting story out of the Anglican succession. That's not to say there isn't plenty of intrigue though: from bishops effectively ruling themselves out, to opaque appointments, and even a former head of M15 appointed to lead the CNC. Andrew, Damian and William discuss the process, the problems plaguing it and unpack those in contention to be the next Primate of All England. The chosen successor will ultimately lead the third largest Christian communion, with around 100 million members worldwide, and play a prominent role in British society with a seat in the House of Lords and as a spiritual advisor to King and country – no pressure.  Produced by Patrick Gibbons. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

118 cardinals, one locked room, one global secret. Karoline Bordeau helps us review Conclave by Robert Harris, a suspenseful insider imagining of a modern papal election. It's church drama with the pacing of a thriller, steeped in political play, and you may be surprised with how much intrigue the clergy can stir up.Plus, Karoline brings us her review of The Seven Sisters — Lucinda Riley's series reimagining the Greek myth of the Pleiades across generations and continents. AMI Audiobook Review is broadcast on AMI-audio in Canada and publishes three new podcast episodes a week on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.Follow AMI Audiobook Review on YouTube & Instagram!We want your feedback!Be that comments, suggestions, hot-takes, audiobook recommendations or reviews of your own… hit us up! Our email address is: audiobookreview@ami.caAbout AMIAMI is a media company that entertains, informs and empowers Canadians with disabilities through three broadcast services — AMI-tv and AMI-audio in English and AMI-télé in French — and streaming platform AMI+. Our vision is to establish AMI as a leader in the offering of accessible content, providing a voice for Canadians with disabilities through authentic storytelling, representation and positive portrayal. To learn more visit AMI.ca and AMItele.ca.Find more great AMI Original Content on AMI+Learn more at AMI.caConnect with Accessible Media Inc. online:X /Twitter @AccessibleMediaInstagram @AccessibleMediaInc / @AMI-audioFacebook at @AccessibleMediaIncTikTok @AccessibleMediaInc

Robert Harris was a depressed, suicidal teenager when God entered his life. God has now led Robert to the frontlines of evangelism, both in America and overseas in South Asia where he is driven to bring the Gospel to people groups who have never heard the name of Jesus. Robert is on the front lines of evangelism and has seen God's work displayed up close in many ways. Show notes @ https://compelledpodcast.com/episodes/robert-harris ++++++++++++ Compelled is a seasonal podcast using gripping, immersive storytelling to celebrate the powerful ways God is transforming Christians around the world. These Christian testimonies are raw, true, and powerful. Be encouraged and let your faith be strengthened! Want to help make new episodes? Either make a one-time gift, or become a Monthly Partner at: https://compelledpodcast.com/donate Perks of being a Monthly Partner include: EARLY ACCESS to each new Compelled episode 1 week early! FULL LIBRARY of our unedited, behind-the-scenes interviews with each guest... over 100+ hours of additional stories and takeaways! Become a Monthly Partner by selecting the "Monthly" option during check-out.  Show notes, emails, and more at: https://compelledpodcast.com Compelled is a member of the Proclaim Podcast Network: https://proclaim.fm Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

W/C 5th May 2025I see that Amazon very astutely managed to get Conclave on their roster of films included on Prime, just in time for the selection of the new pope.I can only assume that the nature of the timing, you could almost say it was divine, will push the viewing figures no end.I haven't seen it yet, but I have read the book which I thoroughly enjoyed. Robert Harris is a fave amongst my fiction-author-choices, and his new one Precipice landed last week, it's currently perched at the top of the ‘next up' pile.I'll report back when I get to the film, but the cast looks hefty, and the twist at the end is delicious.Stay safe.Down The Road - Mike PetersTherapy For Me (or TFM as I now refer to it) is a bit of an audio curiosity. It started out as a mechanism for me to clear my head, with the hope that by saying stuff out loud it would act as a little bit of self-help. It's remains loose in style, fluid in terms of content and raw - it's a one take, press record and see what happens, affair.If you want to keep in touch with TFM and the other stuff I do then please follow me on Facebook, Insta, Twitter or Patreon. Thanks for getting this far.

In which the Mister and Miss Angie join me in reviewing CONCLAVE (2024), from a novel by Robert Harris, the film has a screenplay by Peter Straughan (winner of the 2025 Best Adapted Screenplay Academy Award) and is directed by Edward Berger.  After the death of the Pope, Thomas Lawrence (a riveting performance by the always luminescent Ralph Fiennes), the Dean of Cardinals, must convene a conclave to choose the new leader of the Catholic Church. Troubled by his own faltering faith, Thomas must make some hard choices to uphold his responsibilities while also dealing with the ambitions of his fellow Cardinals.  The powerhouse cast includes Isabella Rossellini, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Lucian Msamati, Jacek Koman, Carlos Diehz, Thomas Loibl, Brian F O'Byrne and Sergio Castellitto.  The film clocks in at 2 h, is rated PG and is currently streaming on Prime Video but also to buy/rent on Prime Video.  Please note there are SPOILERS in this review.This episode of the pod is dedicated to the always lovely and fabulous Miss Angie - love you Sister!#Conclave #RobertHarris #PeterStraughan #EdwardBerger #RalphFiennes #Lawrence #IsabellaRossellini #SisterAgnes #StanleyTucci #Bellini #JohnLithgow #Tremblay #LucianMsamati #Adeyemi #JacekKoman #Wozniak #CarlosDiehz #Benitez #ThomasLoibl #Mandorff #BrianFOByrne #OMalley #SergioCastellitto #Tedesco #Thriller #Drama #ConspiracyThriller  ⁠@PrimeVideo  #FridayFamilyFilmNightOpening intro music: GOAT by Wayne Jones, courtesy of YouTube Audio Library

On Nick Ferrari at Breakfast.Jeremy Hunt tells Nick that the UK-US trade deal is not a great deal, but a better position than we were four months ago.British novelist Robert Harris joins Nick Ferrari to discuss how it was revealed by Pope Leo's brother that he watched Conclave, the film, ahead of the conclave to educate himself. All of this and more on Nick Ferrari: The Whole Show Podcast.

Few aircraft earn the battle-tested distinction of singularly turning the tide of entire theaters of world wars. The SBD Dauntless may just be one of them.On this episode, Robert Harris, member of the Commemorative Air Force, and author Kevin Miller provide a tag team review of this venerable aircraft, from its pivotal role in World War ll in the Pacific to flying one of the few remaining airworthy examples remaining 80+ years later.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-fighter-pilot-podcast/donations

**THIS EPISODE CONTAINS FULL SPOILERS**We recorded this episode back in January, but divine timing has blessed us: we're releasing it the exact same week a real-life conclave is happening! Coincidence? Or the hand of God? Either way, it's the perfect time to dive into "Conclave" - Edward Berger's 2024 cinematic banger based on the holy grail of papal thrillers by Robert Harris. Join us as we enter the sacred halls of secrecy, political maneuvering, and cassock-clad drama. Is the real-life conclave destined to be as sinfully juicy as the fictional one? We certainly hope so!#Conclave #EdwardBerger #RobertHarris #RalphFiennes #StanleyTucci #JohnLithgow #IsabellaRossellini #CarlosDiehz #SergioCastellitto #LucianMsamati #FilmisLitpod #movieadaptation #Booktoscreen #PapalDrama #VaticanVibes #HolyThriller #CatholicCinema #DivineTiming #MoviePodcasts #NowStreaming #PopeWatch2025 #Peacock

This conversation was recorded the morning of the start of the Conclave to replace Pope Francis. 

Robert Harris got rare access to the Vatican as he was writing Conclave, the novel that inspired the 2024 film starring Ralph Fiennes. He joins Matt Galloway to dig into what will happen behind closed doors as cardinals convene today to elect the next pope — and explains why the group dynamics aren't that different from a reality TV show.

The US National Security Advisor Mike Waltz has been demoted to UN Ambassador after a controversy involving sensitive military plans and a Signal group chat.Also on the programme: the US and Ukraine clinch a natural resources deal but an agreement to end the conflict remains elusive; and with Roman Catholic cardinals readying to elect a new Pope, British author Robert Harris talks about his book Conclave.And Newhour's Julian Marshall presents his last programme after 51 years of reporting and presenting for the BBC World Service. We bid him farewell. (Photo: US National Security Advisor Mike Waltz joins US Vice President JD Vance for a visit to the US military's Pituffik Space Base in Greenland on March 28, 2025. Credit: Reuters)

Streaming viewership of "Conclave" surged 3,200 percent in the week after Pope Francis’ death. Viewers turned to that movie, which won the Best Adapted Screenplay Oscar, to help them understand one of the most secretive elections on the planet. The film is based on the novel by Robert Harris, who joined Geoff Bennett to break down the complicated process of electing the next pontiff. PBS News is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders

Today Izzy speaks with the founder of Jet Guys, Robert Harris.  Robert was "invited" to join the army early in life and then retired from Northwest Public after twenty years.  He has been an airframe and powerplant  mechanic for over 40 years.  Robert's canard journey began long ago when he built his Rutan VariEze.  He enjoyed the project so much that he started "The EZ Hangar," a company aimed at providing support, services, and education to the growing canard world.  The EZ Hangar grew and is now known as The Jet Guys, based in Covington, TN at the M04 airport.  The Jet Guys work on more than just jets, staying true to their canard roots.  Robert's crew can rebuild your existing canard aircraft or even help you get your own project across the finish line.  If you find yourself in Robert's shop you will hear classic rock tunes playing in the background while he enjoys his favorite Marie Callender's lunch.  Who knows, maybe you will even catch a glimpse of the custom "horseless carriage" that he built.  But that's a story we will have to get to another day.  For now, let's jump into the middle of Izzy's conversation with Robert about canards and N86LE, his Long-EZ lovingly named "Purple."

Streaming viewership of "Conclave" surged 3,200 percent in the week after Pope Francis’ death. Viewers turned to that movie, which won the Best Adapted Screenplay Oscar, to help them understand one of the most secretive elections on the planet. The film is based on the novel by Robert Harris, who joined Geoff Bennett to break down the complicated process of electing the next pontiff. PBS News is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders

Robert Harris was recently honored by Oconee County Schools.Bret Huett Country Financial has opened their new location.Local teams are in the running for the state championship.Oconee's Own has launched their first episode!Subscribe online at ⁠OconeeEnterprise.com⁠

pWotD Episode 2917: Conclave (film) Welcome to Popular Wiki of the Day, spotlighting Wikipedia's most visited pages, giving you a peek into what the world is curious about today.With 162,025 views on Sunday, 27 April 2025 our article of the day is Conclave (film).Conclave is a 2024 political thriller film directed by Edward Berger and written by Peter Straughan, based on the 2016 novel by Robert Harris. The film stars Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Sergio Castellitto, and Isabella Rossellini. In the film, Cardinal Thomas Lawrence (Fiennes) organizes a conclave to elect the next pope and finds himself investigating secrets and scandals about the major candidates.After premiering at the 51st Telluride Film Festival on August 30, 2024, Conclave was released in theaters in the United States by Focus Features on October 25 and in the United Kingdom by Black Bear UK on November 29. The film received positive reviews from critics, who praised the performances, directing, screenplay, and cinematography. The film has grossed $116.4 million worldwide on a $20 million production budget.Conclave was named one of the top ten films of 2024 by the National Board of Review and the American Film Institute. Among other accolades, it won four awards at the 78th British Academy Film Awards (tying The Brutalist for most of the ceremony), including Best Film, and also won the Golden Globe Award for Best Screenplay and the Screen Actors Guild Award for Outstanding Performance by a Cast in a Motion Picture. At the 97th Academy Awards, it received eight nominations, including Best Picture, and won Best Adapted Screenplay.This recording reflects the Wikipedia text as of 02:34 UTC on Monday, 28 April 2025.For the full current version of the article, see Conclave (film) on Wikipedia.This podcast uses content from Wikipedia under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License.Visit our archives at wikioftheday.com and subscribe to stay updated on new episodes.Follow us on Mastodon at @wikioftheday@masto.ai.Also check out Curmudgeon's Corner, a current events podcast.Until next time, I'm neural Amy.

Tim and Brady discuss conclave, garage sales, colour names, Vegemite in Canada, birthday cakes, Tim's 49th birthday, and a few other things.Support us on Patreon and access the Request Room (among other extras) - https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFMToday's Request Room - https://www.patreon.com/posts/127497711Join the discussion of this episode on our subreddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/Unmade_Podcast/Catch the podcast on YouTube where we often include accompanying videos and pictures - https://www.youtube.com/@unmadepodcastUSEFUL LINKSPictures to accompany this episode - https://www.unmade.fm/episode-160-picturesPope Francis - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_FrancisConclave (book by Robert Harris) - https://amzn.to/4cLMIBcConclave (the movie) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conclave_(film)Brady meets the Pope's astronomer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DAKaR16cYColor Names - https://colornames.org/

Brady's colour - https://colornames.org/color/a46925Tim's colour - https://colornames.org/color/445061Unmade Podcast color - https://colornames.org/color/082217Vegemite controversy - https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/article/makes-absolutely-no-sense-australian-cafe-owner-in-toronto-removes-8k-of-vegemite-after-cfia-deems-product-non-compliant/The Women's Weekly Children's Birthday Cake Book - https://www.womensweeklyfood.com.au/baking/australian-womens-weekly-childrens-birthday-cakes-29679/People who died aged 49 - https://www.famousbirthdays.com/deceased/age/49.htmlThomas Aquinas - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_AquinasRichard Marquand - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_MarquandAlexander Hamilton - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_HamiltonThe Fireman - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fireman_(band)Catch the bonus Request Room episode - https://www.patreon.com/posts/127497711

CNN Michael Smerconish shares his take on the public dispute between comedian Bill Maher and "Curb Your Enthusiasm" creator Larry David. Then, would society start crumbling once our global population reaches a sharp decline? Darrell Bricker, CEO of IPSOS Public Affairs and co-author of "Empty Planet: The Shock of Global Population Decline," warns about the ramifications of an aging and shrinking population. After that,  Admiral William McRaven details his process in managing a crisis through his new book "Conquering Crisis: Ten Lessons to Learn Before You Need Them."  Finally,  the passing of Pope Francis means that cardinals will elect a new leader for the Catholic Church. Robert Harris, the author of "Conclave" which inspired the Oscar-award winning film, sheds light on how that process will unfold. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

With rare exceptions, The Nose doesn’t usually cover movies from the previous Oscar season once the actual Oscars have happened. But major world events are the sort of things for which one might break with tradition, and with the death of Pope Francis on April 21, we thought we might make an exception. Conclave is a 2024 political thriller melodrama based on the 2016 Robert Harris novel. It’s set at the Vatican and tells the story of the death of one pope and the election of the next. Conclave was nominated for eight Academy Awards this year, including Best Picture, Best Actor for Ralph Fiennes, and Best Supporting Actress for Isabella Rossellini. It won the Oscar for Best Adapted Screenplay. And: MobLand is a British crime drama television series. It was originally developed for Showtime as a spinoff origin story for Ray Donovan. But it eventually morphed into the standalone gangster story that has become the most-watched series launch ever for Paramount+. It stars Tom Hardy, Pierce Brosnan, Paddy Considine, and Helen Mirren. GUESTS: Taneisha Duggan: Director of arts, culture, and entertainment for the city of Hartford Shawn Murray: A stand-up comedian, writer, and the host of the Nobody Asked Shawn podcast Lindsay Lee Wallace: Writes about culture, health care and health equity, and other stuff, too Bill Yousman: Professor of media studies at Sacred Heart University The Colin McEnroe Show is available as a podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, TuneIn, Listen Notes, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe and never miss an episode! Subscribe to The Noseletter, an email compendium of merriment, secrets, and ancient wisdom brought to you by The Colin McEnroe Show. Join the conversation on Facebook and Twitter. Colin McEnroe and Dylan Reyes contributed to this show.Support the show: http://www.wnpr.org/donateSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Thousands of people waited in line in on Wednesday to pay their final respects to the late Pope Francis, who is lying in state inside the St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City. Plus, Anderson interviews Robert Harris, whose bestselling book "Conclave" led to the Oscar-winning movie. Harris shares the inspiration for his novel and why people are so fascinated with the process of selecting a new pope. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stephen and Mark delve into the world of extraordinary circumstances and people. Our book for this episode is Conclave by Robert Harris, the novel which is the basis for the Academy Award Nominated movie. A story about extraordinary circumstances and the decisions that must be made. The bourbon tonight is not a bourbon at all, but a Canadian Whisky brought to us the Great One himself, Wayne Gretzky.

Enterprise Connect 2025 Podcast | Technology Reseller News Previously LIVE from Enterprise Connect 2025 “If you're relying on mobile triangulation, your 911 location could be half a mile off—meanwhile, your DoorDash order is on the doorstep,” says Robert Harris, President of Communications Advantage. Speaking at Enterprise Connect 2025, Harris and Melinda Sensabaugh, ENP, joined Doug Green to discuss the realities of enterprise 911 compliance—and why Next Generation 911 (NG911) is far more than a telecom upgrade. Sensabaugh, a certified Emergency Numbering Professional (ENP) and longtime consultant in public safety communications, outlined how legacy analog systems and selective routers limit the information public safety can receive. “Today's 911 still runs on technology designed for landlines,” said Sensabaugh. “NextGen 911 will run over IP networks, delivering location, device, video, even floor plans—getting the right information to the right PSAP faster.” For enterprises, complying with Kari's Law and the RAY BAUM's Act is more complex than just updating a phone system. Harris emphasized that ambiguous terms like “to the extent technically feasible” require interpretation. “Enterprises need expert help to translate regulatory language into action—whether that means mapping every wired port or accounting for Wi-Fi mobility,” he said. Both Sensabaugh and Harris have built their consulting practice around a holistic approach to 911—helping enterprises assess and update not just their phone systems, but their policies, safety planning, and PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point) readiness. Their work includes consulting on legacy upgrades, educating IT and safety teams, and advocating for proactive compliance before tragedies expose gaps. “The bottom line,” said Sensabaugh, “is that 911 isn't just about technology. It's about protecting your employees and knowing that when they dial, help gets to the right place—fast.” To learn more, visit communicationsadvantage.com, or connect with Robert Lee Harris on LinkedIn. He also offers a white paper on integrating 911 compliance as a core worker safety discipline.  

(Reupload due to wrong file!)Conclave is a 2024 mystery thriller film directed by Edward Berger and written by Peter Straughan, based on the 2016 novel by Robert Harris. The film stars Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Sergio Castellitto, and Isabella Rossellini. In the film, Cardinal Thomas Lawrence (Fiennes) organizes a papal conclave to elect the next pope and finds himself investigating secrets and scandals about each candidate.Conclave premiered at the 51st Telluride Film Festival on 30 August 2024, was theatrically released in the United States by Focus Features on 25 October 2024, and is scheduled to be released in the United Kingdom by Black Bear UK on 29 November. The film received positive reviews from critics, with praise for the performances, directing, screenplay and cinematography, and has grossed $31 million worldwide.

Oscars Month continues with Edward Berger's Conclave! Ben, Brady, and Patrick cast their votes for this pulpy papal thriller. Directed by Edward Berger and written by Peter Straughan, based on the 2016 novel by Robert Harris. Starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Sergio Castellitto, and Isabella Rossellini.

Eric and Eliot bemoan the shameful meltdown in the Oval Office between VP Vance, President Trump and President Zelensky. They discuss Vance's ambush and whether he executed it alone or in concert with Trump and note that those who are blaming Zelensky for rising to the bait are objectively pro-Putin. They discuss Vance's dark political views and they consider what Europeans can and should do. They also discuss Trump's delegation of responsibility to others and his “Trump Gaza” AI generated video. Eric asks only partially tongue in cheek what the odds are on Trump declaring himself a god by the end of the term. Robert Harris' Cicero Trilogy: https://a.co/d/fHShy26 Shield of the Republic is a Bulwark podcast co-sponsored by the Miller Center of Public Affairs at the University of Virginia.

The film Conclave has picked up a host of awards across all the major ceremonies so far, including at the Screen Actors Guild, the Golden Globes, and winning Best Picture at the BAFTAs. Adapted from the novel by Robert Harris, it also has eight nominations at the upcoming 2025 Academy Awards. Full of intrigue, the film has viewers wondering how true to life the process depicted on the big screen is. And, with Pope Francis hospitalised, amidst the award season, this has only heightened interest in Papal conclaves and the election process.  Dr Kurt Martens, Professor of Canon Law at the Catholic University of America, joins Damian Thompson to unpack the process. What really happens when a Pope dies? Produced by Patrick Gibbons.

The film Conclave has picked up a host of awards across all the major ceremonies so far, including at the Screen Actors Guild, the Golden Globes, and winning Best Picture at the BAFTAs. Adapted from the novel by Robert Harris, it also has eight nominations at the upcoming 2025 Academy Awards. Full of intrigue, the film has viewers wondering how true to life the process depicted on the big screen is. And, with Pope Francis hospitalised, amidst the award season, this has only heightened interest in Papal conclaves and the election process.  Dr Kurt Martens, Professor of Canon Law at the Catholic University of America, joins Damian Thompson to unpack the process. What really happens when a Pope dies? Produced by Patrick Gibbons.

Welcome to the Kobo ReWriting Life Podcast! Alongside your regularly scheduled Kobo Writing Life podcast episode releases, we will also be featuring some highlights from our backlist. For the fourth episode of this series, we're happy to share this episode featuring Robert Harris from November 2016. Originally hosted at Kobo's former headquarters in Toronto (don't worry, we're still in Toronto; we've just moved!), this interview features author Robert Harris in conversation with journalist Johanna Schneller, as well as Pieter Swinkels, former Chief Content Officer at Kobo. This interview offers some insights into Robert's research process and writing routine, and we also get to hear all about his inspiration for Conclave, amongst much more! Find out more on Robert's website, follow Johanna Schneller on X/Twitter, and check out Robert's books on Kobo.

Forrest, Conan Neutron, and Kristina Oakes talk about Edward Berger's Conclave with Lauren Chouinard Based on Robert Harris's 2016 novel of the same name. Conclave is a political thriller that depicts the conclave to elect a new pope after the previous pope suddenly dies. Starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, Isabella Rosselini, John Lithgow, and Sergio Castellitto It is up for Best Picture, Best Actor, Best Supporting Actress, Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Original Score, Best Editing, Best Production Design, Best Costume Design #conclave #ralphfiennes #stanleytucci #academyawards #academyawards2025 #academyawards2024 #oscars #oscars2025 #johnlithgow #isabellarossellini #bestpicture #bestsupportingactress #bestcostumes #bestscore Lauren Chouinard just wrote in Merry Go Round Magazine about her favorite movies of 2024 (Anora and Love Lies Bleeding) https://merrygoroundmagazine.com/merry-go-rounds-top-24-films-of-2024 Conan's former Protonic Reversal cohost Brenna has thryoid cancer and is raising money for her treatment, if you can help please donate https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-brennas-fight-against-thyroid-cancer Join our discord: https://discord.gg/ZPejN3ej The Movie Night Extravaganza Patreon helps us keep the show going.. become a Patron and support the show!! https://patreon.com/MovieNightExtra

Britain's average wages are up according to the latest official data - Will Bain finds out from the public, businesses and listeners if they're feeling the difference.A new report on the property market suggests things are getting even harder for first-time buyers - Wake Up to Money hears from an estate agent and a would-be homeowner about the tricky picture in their area.And after the film adaptation of the Robert Harris book Conclave saw success at the BAFTAs, the owner of a bookshop in Swindon reveals the impact of successful film adaptations on book sales.

In this episode of the Just Schools Podcast, Jon Eckert interviews James Blomfield from the International Forums of Inclusion Practitioners (IFIP). They discuss his work in inclusive education, the importance of Universal Design for Learning (UDL), and the global challenges and opportunities in creating truly inclusive schools. Blomfield shares insights from his visits to Texas schools, highlighting student engagement in career and technical education programs. The conversation also explores the role of artificial intelligence in education, the shift from inclusion to belonging, and the power of networks like IFIP in connecting educators worldwide. The Just Schools Podcast is brought to you by the Baylor Center for School Leadership. Be encouraged. Mentioned: The Curriculum: Gallimaufry to Coherence by Mary Myatt How Change Happens by Duncan Green The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Connect with us: Baylor MA in School Leadership EdD in K-12 Educational Leadership Jon Eckert LinkedIn X: @eckertjon Center for School Leadership at Baylor University: @baylorcsl   Jon Eckert: All right, so we are blessed to have James in our podcast studio. He flew all the way from the United Kingdom to Waco, Texas, to be on this podcast. So James, tell us a little bit about what you've been doing here in central Texas these last couple of days. James: Yeah, I've been spoiled. I've just had the best cheese and ham roll, ever. I can tell you a lot about Texan food now. And brisket. But the quality of the experiences, the visiting the schools, meeting you at Baylor has been a terrific privilege. I'm very grateful. Yeah, today, this morning, in fact, we visited three schools in Waco Independent School District. We were shown around by the loveliest people, Adam, Caroline, and Christie. I think Adam and Caroline are on from your doctoral program. Jon Eckert: Yes. James: But they're like institutional coaches. I gather. We would call them improvement offices where I come from, but they had such a light touch. They knew everyone. They were so friendly with people, and I gather that they are also about compliance, but with the coaching aspects. So they were great. And the three schools we went to, we were Midway yesterday, which was amazing. And then this morning, Bells Hill Elementary, Cesar Chavez, and then GWAMA, Greater Waco Advanced Manufacturing Academy earlier. And yeah, what impressed me was speaking honestly as an English person, it is shocking to see police in a school. Very quickly, I was unaware of them. But we have our own issues in the UK with knives and all sorts. But the staff were, despite that, throughout just so calm, friendly, loving, and attentive to the students. Asking them, talking to them in front of us. And some wonderful experienced people, trauma informed. There was someone who was training to be a social worker this morning who just came out of her office and gave us a short speech without any preparation, speaking from the heart, talking about what she was doing, how much the children matter. If you've got people like that, then you are going to be doing the right stuff. So yeah, I was impressed. But also from the type of education, obviously Texas is massive. The school footprint, I've never been into such big schools, even the elementary and yesterday with Midway, that was the biggest school I've ever been in. It took us a long time to walk around. And all of the stuff, like this morning at GWAMA, we saw robotics, drones, they have the construction academy, welding, forklift truck driving. Yesterday we saw them building an airplane. When I was doing metalwork at school, it was for like a baked potato holder. They were building an airplane. And I would love that as a student. I would be inspired by that even if I was building a small part of the airplane. Rebuilding tractors yesterday. So that's practical. That's 21st century teaching, but visible, practical, hands-on. Jon Eckert: And then the engagement that you see that's possible there through starting a cafe restaurant through the airplanes. Just to be clear to the audience, the students are not doing this on their own. It's a two-seat airplane that would be like a Cessna, and they have engineers coming in to help build. I still am not going to be the first person that volunteers to fly in that, but it was impressive to see. And I do feel like in central Texas, there are a number of schools doing a lot to try to meet the needs of the community by educating kids in ways that engage them, use the skills that they've been given, help them become more of who they're created to be in a way that benefits the community. And even the principal yesterday, Allison Smith, was sharing about the new factory that's coming in that's got a gigantic footprint, and it's going to be a huge benefit to the tax base. Before they came, they met with the high school to see if there were ways that they could integrate some of the needs they have with what the high school's developing in their students. Because at Midway, about half the students go on to a post-secondary education. And so there have to be opportunities for kids to step into things that allow them to be gainfully employed and meaningfully use the skills that they have. And many of the kids were doing things that I couldn't even fathom doing. And they're just leaning into it and gaining expertise, which is for 16, 17, 18 year olds is truly remarkable. James: Isn't that also a bit like a UDL mindset? If the manufacturer comes in and has that intelligence to ask about what would you need? What would be helpful? And then you're designing the education from the ground up. Jon Eckert: That's it. And I'm glad you brought up Universal Design for Learning, because that's something that we haven't really gotten into. Why you're here and what you do in the United Kingdom, because we actually, Eric Ellison, met you a while ago. But you were the reason why we were at a UNESCO conference in Paris where we got to work with educators from six continents that were all interested in UDL and what it means to educate each kid around the world. And there's 250 million kids that don't have access to a school. And then we're in these amazing schools where the biggest schools you've been in that are offering all these different opportunities. And so we're getting to see it, but what does it really look like from your perspective, from your organization as it relates to UDL? James: Yeah. So interesting, I am a teacher, head teacher, classroom teacher from some 25 years. And for me, it's all about practical teaching and talking to parents, making things work. But at a very practical level. And one thing that drew me to my organization, which is the IFIP, International Forums of Inclusion Practitioners, was that when I met Daniel, who's a fabulous person to work for, it's much more practitioner based. It's all about pedagogies. I felt at home straight away. But also, how do we train teachers? How do we bring them on into inclusive practice? And the IFIP is all about the voice of teachers. Daniel would say inclusionistas, all manner and range of people, teachers, specialists, therapists, but parents as well, who are committed to a more equitable and enriching education. So the majority of what we do is training. We have things like our GITI program, which is a global inclusive teaching initiative. But we do events. And that's something that Daniel, one of his strengths, he speaks all over the world. He's written many books. We were so, so grateful to have the event at UNESCO in Paris. So we were co-hosting. Daniel had been talking about that for two years beforehand. And we didn't believe him. He made it a reality. He dreamt about it, and it happened. And the same more recently in Brazil. We went to the G-20 ministerial meeting. He was talking about that. So he sees things and it falls to me to follow behind him and try and make some of the practicalities work. But yeah, the inclusion piece covers so many flavors. And I think what you mentioned just now, we talk about inclusion. Well, if the 250 million aren't in school, well, that's a level of inclusion that puts lots of other schools into a completely different context. Where does the inclusion start? And even in some of the schools I visited, I've been very lucky to visit schools around the world who would say they're inclusive and they may have a sensory room, or they may have, but they aren't necessarily inclusive. But for me, one of my favorite schools I've visited was in Rome, [foreign language 00:08:28], Our Lady of Good Counsel. It was run by Silesia nuns. And they said in the words of their founder, Don Bosco, "Young people need not only to be loved, but they need to know that they're loved." And it's very reassuring as a practitioner, a teacher, former head teacher, to come here to Texas and you see that. You see that palpably going on. And I feel at home. The elementary school this morning, because I was a primary school teacher, it was just like, I know this. I understand this. I could probably take a lesson. But they had some great ideas. And teachers, I'm a teacher, you love stealing good ideas. Jon Eckert: Well, and I think this is the beautiful thing about the jobs that we get to do. We get to see all the amazing things that are happening in schools. So much of what's in the news and what gets publicized are the things that aren't working. And the tragedy that there are 250 million kids who don't have access to schools, that is tragic. But in schools, there are amazing things happening all over the world. And getting to see them is this encouraging, oh, it gives you hope. And I wish more people could see that. I do think there are challenges though, because when we think about inclusion, we've moved as a country toward inclusive education, the least restrictive environment for students, and bringing students into a place where they can flourish. But we really, as Erik Carter, who runs our Baylor Center for Developmental Disability, you met with him yesterday. He talks about moving from inclusion to belonging. And I think we even need to think about belonging to mattering. So you keep hearing more and more about what does it means to matter and seeing your gifts being used with others. And that's what we saw yesterday. It wasn't individual students. It was teams of students doing this and each member of the team had a different role, whether it was robotics or it was the plane or the cafe. And the educators needed to step in. So the principal was talking about, I need an educator who's willing to step up and do this so that this can happen. And that's the thing that I think people that haven't been in schools for a while don't see what it means to really help kids belong. They have a sense of what inclusion was, maybe when they were in school, where there was a class down the way that was a Sensory room, which is a nice room for just, here's where we're going to put a kid who's out of control that we can't manage in so many places. It's like, no, there's so many schools that are doing so much more than that. So what are some other hopeful things you've seen through IFIP? James: Well, I think, yeah, you see a lot and on social media, and you must have found this, there's so much many aphorisms about inclusion and metaphors about what inclusion is. It's a mosaic. It's a banquet with many tastes. It's symphony orchestra with many sounds. Inclusion is a garden. That's quite a good one actually, the metaphor. And that's something that Sir Ken Robinson from the UK has talked a lot about. And there's lots of analogies with growing and flourishing, which that's a word you've taught me in my visit here. But I do feel sometimes that it is all good to talk about that. I don't disagree. But there's some recently inclusion makes every day feel special. Yeah, it does. Inclusion is the antidote to the division in the world. It is. But will that help the early career teacher struggle with their class? Will that give them the practical steps that they need? So I think all of those things are true, and we must love the students. But I would say that's just comes a standard with being a decent human being. I would expect that from you, from anyone. You treat people with a respect. But for me, I feel more inclined to say, what are the practical professional steps? What's the pedagogy? What are the teaching principles that will help me to, as we were saying yesterday, maybe to hesitate before ask another question in class and listen. And listen. That's inclusion, isn't it? Wait for someone to answer and maybe then not say anything. It's actually stepping back. So for me, I'm very impressed by... I mean, I was brought up on quality first teaching, we would call it in the UK, which is about high quality, inclusive teaching for every child. So you mustn't differentiate in a way that you've got the low table. No one wants to be on the low table. You want to have high challenge on every table. And we used to say, you want your best teacher on the lowest table. It's not like you just put a teaching assistant or some volunteer on the lowest table. It's got to be focus lesson design, involvement, interaction, metacognition. So responsibility for your own teaching, for your own learning. Sorry. And I love the dialogic approach. Someone said yesterday, Socratic circle that I've picked up. But it's like you would encourage a child to talk about what they understand because very quickly then you assess what they actually know. Sometimes you'd be surprised by what they know. But for the same reason, UDL appeals to me, to my sensibility, because it offers very practical steps. And crucially at the design stage, it's not like I'm going to apply this assistive technology to a lesson I created a year ago and will do the best we can, and that child will now be able to do more than they could. But if I design the lesson, and one of our colleagues, Helena Wallberg from Sweden, who was a co-author on the Global Inclusive Teaching Initiative, she talks about lesson design. It's a far sexier way than lesson planning. So teachers are professionals, they're artists. They need to use their profession. Jon Eckert: So when you start thinking about design, I use Paideia seminars because Socratic seminars are great, but Socrates taught one-on-one. We don't usually get the luxury of doing that. So how do you bring in the gifts of each student, not so that you're doing something kind or helpful for that individual, but so that the whole group benefits from the collective wisdom in the classroom? And so the inclusive education is not to benefit one single individual, it's to benefit all of us because of what you draw out. And that's where design, I think, is more helpful than planning. And so when we think about this in this state that we're in right now, we've never been in a better time to educate. We have more tools than we've ever had. We know more about how people learn than we have in the history of the world. James: Yeah. Jon Eckert: And yet sometimes that can make things feel overwhelming. So that beginning teacher that you mentioned. The only thing that beginning teacher knows is no one in the room learns exactly the way she does. That's all you know. And so then how do you use tools... And we've talked a little bit about this artificial intelligence. Amazing tool for adapting reading levels, for adapting basic feedback, for giving an educator a helpful boost on lesson design because it can synthesize from large language models. It can do work that would've taken us hours in five seconds. But it can't replace the human being. And so how do you see tools like artificial intelligence feeding into UDL so that it becomes more human, not less? James: So where I am, there's a shortage of specialist teachers, for example, and therapists. And Daniel's been doing a lot of work in India and parts of Asia where there isn't the expertise. So I think maybe AI can help in those places. But even he would say that will not replace a specialist. You can never replace a specialist who has the intuitive and curiosity to see what an AI system can't. But it may empower parents who have no kind of training as a teacher might have for neurodiverse situations of how do I deal with my child when they're like this? And similar for teachers and who are looking for... They've tried everything. What do I try now? So we've been working on one on an AI system that's based on all of the research that Daniel's done. It's not released yet. We've got a working title of 360 Assessment, which doesn't really mean anything, but it was meant to be assessing the whole child. And he's, through his work in many schools over many years, many thousands of hours, he's put all of this stuff into the data for the AI system coupled with his books. So when you ask a question, it will do a quick spin round and come back with some suggestions. And it's quite fun to use, I think, as a tool to empower parents to signpost them. And for teachers, it's a useful tool. I don't think it's the panacea, but I think you have to use these technologies sensibly. But my daughter, who's a nursery nurse, and she tried to break it by saying, oh... We tried it, the computer. My child is two years old, but can't pronounce S. should I be worried? And it came back with the correct answer, said no, there's nothing to worry about. Up to four years old, some children won't be able to pronounce the sound S properly. And then it gave her the advice that she would give, because a manager of a nursery nurse, the advice you'd give to her staff. Now all of her team have just started that. None of them have any experience. So that, I could see, could be useful for training numbers, the ratio of good advice to people. That's the way I see it working in the short term. Jon Eckert: No, and I think that's great because it enhances the human's ability to meet the need of the human right in front of them. Because I will always believe that teaching is one of the most human things that we do. James: It is. Jon Eckert: And so any way that we can enhance that with any tool, whether it's a pencil or an artificial intelligence tool that allows you to give feedback and synthesize things and help with design. I also believe we just need to give credit where credit's due. I don't love it when we don't give credit for tools that we use. So if you're using UDL, they're a great people cast. We're about to have a call with them later today. They do great work. And so the same thing. If you have a digital tool, share that so that we know here's what we did and here's how we can spread that collective expertise to others. And so what role does IFIP play in bringing networks of people together to do that? Because in your convenings, that's one of the main things you do. So can you talk a little bit about that? James: Yeah. Well, in the title if you like, in our forums, one of the things that Daniel is very keen on is sustainable growth. So we want to introduce people to each other. And it's surprising with head teachers and principals who struggle. I've just come back from Brazil from a UNESCO GEM, which is a global education meeting, where the focus was on the quality of the leadership. And we need to give, empower our leaders. They're often working on their own. One of the roles of the IFIP is to join them together. So we're launching in January at the BET Show, which is the biggest technology show in the world, apparently, in London Excel Center, our Global School Principals Forum. So we have a forum for them. We have a forum for specialists, forum for pastoral leads. And we've also got regional forums of South America, North America, Asia, just to try to bring people together. Because when you share the experience, and I've been really grateful this morning for the opportunity to walk through and see some American schools that you share the ideas, you see the similarities. That's the power and that's so important. Jon Eckert: No, and that's been our experience. Whether we're just in the states or internationally, there's so much good work going on. We just need to have ways of connecting human beings who are doing it, so it doesn't feel like it's another thing to do, but it's a better way to do what we're already doing. And so I feel like that's what UDL does. I feel like that's what IFIP is about. And that the most meaningful part of our time in Paris at UNESCO was not in the panels, it was in the conversations that happened over lunch, in the hallways. The panel may have sparked a conversation, but it's hey, what are you doing here? And what are you doing there? And I walked away with multiple connections of people that we'll continue to talk to because, again, there's so much good work going on. Yeah, go ahead. James: My memory of the... Because it was a very stale affair, wasn't it? And the bureaucratic approach, UNESCO, because you feel like you're a United Nations and lots of people talking were sat down for hours and hours, was when you lifted your hand and actually ask a few questions. That's inclusion, isn't it? Eric was saying that people who were leaving the room walked back in to listen because that was interesting and someone was asking them how they feel and bringing it back into reality. That's so important. But I also think inclusion, there is an interesting power dynamic with inclusion. A guy called Michael Young who's a professor of education at UCL, talks about the right for all children and young people to be taught powerful knowledge. What knowledge are we giving them? How are we empowering them? So I think inclusion is all about discovering your power within, if you like. That's so important so that they begin to see. And some of the teachers are saying this morning, kids know what they see, what they've experienced. And if you introduce new ways of dealing with anger or with pain, they don't have to fight. They don't have to resort to what they've necessarily seen. Then give them new strategies. That's empowering those children. Jon Eckert: Well, and Adam and Caroline who were taking you around, they're behavioral interventionists. And they are always busy because there are kids that are struggling with how to manage the feelings that they have. And if they don't have people giving them those strategies, how do they grow? And again, that's very human teaching, and Adam and Caroline are great models of that. James: They were wonderful. So good, and it was the light touch that impressed me. Because I've worked with, as I say, school improvement offices. And the trick is not to push people down. It's to make them think twice about what they've done or how they could ask a question better. And their observations of the displays on the walls and just the language teachers and teaching assistants use has a profound effect. I do believe that inclusion is about the students look at the way their teachers behave. It's nothing to do with this pedagogy or the post. It's about how did they respond to me? How did they respond to the other person in the class? What's important to them? How do they talk? That's the inclusion that you teach. Empowering them to make the similar choices when they're older. Jon Eckert: That's well said. So our lightning round, I usually ask four or five questions that have relatively short answers. So first one, what's the worst advice you've ever received as an educator? James: Oh, as an educator? Worst advice. Jon Eckert: Oh, it could be as a human being if you want. James: Well, when I was young, my dad had many qualities and taught me many good things. But one of the worst things he said to me was, "Don't use your money, use theirs." So he would borrow money. And that got me off to a terrible start in life. And I learned through my own experience that it was better to use... Well, I was always using my own money. Jon Eckert: Yes. Yes, okay. James: But I could use it better. But bless him because he's no longer with us. But that was one piece. Jon Eckert: No, that's a tough start. James: Yeah. Jon Eckert: Thank you for that. What's the best advice you've received? James: The best advice, I think, was to go back to university. Jon Eckert: Okay. James: I dropped out of school to get engaged, because that's what you do when you're 19. And I was going to get married, but it didn't happen. And then I went to do a summer job, which lasted for 10 years. Jon Eckert: That's a long summer. James: But my blessed teacher, Michael Brampton, who gave me a love for painting, history of art, he kept on pestering me go back to university. I went back as a mature student and loved it. I think people should start degrees when they're near in the thirties because you appreciate it so much more. Jon Eckert: Yes. James: So that advice he gave me led to such a change in my life. Jon Eckert: Yes. Well, and then you went on to get a degree in art history, philosophy, then a master's in computer science. So you went all in. James: Yes. And that took me into education. And the time I went in, there weren't many teachers that were doing anything with computers. Jon Eckert: So as you get to see all this around the world, what's the biggest challenge that you see schools facing that you work with? James: I think it's manpower. Jon Eckert: Okay. James: I think there's a real manpower issue and belief that school can make a difference. I think one of the things that we believe in IFIP is that positive change is possible. And sometimes it's shocking going to schools. And if you do make people see that the positive change is possible, it transforms them. So advocacy, shared vision. And one of your colleagues was saying this morning, just changing the mantra can make a profound difference. Jon Eckert: Yeah. So what makes you the most optimistic as you get to see all the schools all around the world? James: Yeah. Well, I've just come back from Stockholm in Sweden, and I was really, really impressed by the school there. It was one of the best schools in Stockholm. It was a school that had in their entrance hall, you'd expect it to be very austere and you don't want to see any bad stuff in your entrance hall. But they had a table tennis table set up and they had a piece of found art or hanging above. And it was the whole sense of the school's about children started there, about young people. But in Sweden, it's all about sustainability. Everyone is expected to clear up after themselves, be mindful of other people, respectful. Even in the hotel where I stayed, I had to sort my rubbish in my room. It's that approach that starts from not just in school, across the board. Jon Eckert: Yeah. James: So that impressed me. Jon Eckert: Yeah, that's a beautiful example. One of my favorite schools outside of Nashville, Tennessee, they don't have custodians that clean up the building. They have 20 minutes at the end of the day where the students do all of the cleaning, including the bathrooms. Which you start to take care of stuff better when you're the one who has to clean it up. And the peer pressure to take care of it shifts a little bit. So it's a great word. All right, one other thing. Oh, best book that you've read last. James: Can I give you two books? Jon Eckert: Absolutely. James: I mean, I've got into fiction in a big way recently. So I use Audible, the app. Jon Eckert: Oh, yes. James: And I've been working through all kinds of classics that I never read properly. Just reread The Hobbit and Tom Sawyer. But I've gone through... The Name of the Rose stuck with me recently. I so enjoyed reading it. And I've just got into Robert Harris. He's written Conclave, which has just come out as a feature film. And a series of books called Imperium about Cicero and Oratory and how the Roman Empire was lost. But they aren't the books. Jon Eckert: I love that. Go ahead. James: But the two books, one is by an English specialist called Mary Myatt. And one of the really practical books that she wrote was The Curriculum: Gallimaufry to coherence. Gallimaufry is a word, I'm not sure if it's Gaelic, but it means a mess. So going from a mess to coherence. And that book is all about how it's important that children struggle. That learning only happens. We try to protect kids all the time that way. No, they should struggle. You imagine if everything's easy. And then she says this, if everything's easy, it's hard to learn. There's nothing to hold onto. There's no scratch marks. You need some of that. So Mary Myatt, that's a brilliant book. The other book is by Duncan Green called How Change Happens. And that's all about this idea of power. And he talks about power within, that's your self-confidence power with when you've got solidarity with people. Power to change things and then power over people. But it strikes me that as he shows in his book, where you've got instances where you've got the 'I Can' campaign in South Asia, all about women who were being violently treated by men, reclaiming their self-worth. It's like invisible power. Where does it come from? The change. You can't see any difference, but inside they've changed dramatically to stand up collectively against something. And that's what we need to do with students. Build that self-power inside. Jon Eckert: Great recommendations. And we talk a lot about struggling well and where that fuel comes from. And so, love that book by Mary Myatt. I'll have to get the spelling of that from you when we get off. My also favorite thing about that is I asked for one book recommendation and I wrote down at least seven. So, well done James. All right, well hey. We really appreciate you coming over. We look forward to potentially doing a convening where we get to bring great people together who want to work on serving each kid well in this way that benefits all of us. So hopefully that will happen sometime in the coming year. But really grateful for your partnership and a chance to go visit schools and have you on the podcast. James: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you.  

The screenwriter Peter Straughan has become adept at taking well known — and beloved — books and adapting them for the big and small screens. He was first nominated for an Oscar for his screenplay of the 2011 film “Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy,” based on the classic John le Carré spy novel, and then adapted Hilary Mantel's “Wolf Hall” trilogy into an award-winning season of television, with an adaptation of the third novel coming out soon. Now he has been nominated for a second Oscar: for his screenplay for “Conclave,” based on Robert Harris's political thriller set in the secret world of a papal election.“It's almost like mosaic work,” Straughan tells Gilbert Cruz, the editor of The New York Times Book Review, about adapting books. “You have all these pieces; sometimes they're going to be laid out in a very similar order to the book, sometimes a completely different order. Sometimes you're going to deconstruct and rebuild completely.”In the third episode of our special series devoted to Oscar-nominated films adapted from books, Cruz talks with Straughan about his process of translating a book to the screen, and about the moments in ‘‘Conclave” that he found most exciting to adapt.Produced by Tina Antolini and Alex BarronEdited by Wendy DorrEngineered by Daniel RamirezOriginal Music by Elisheba IttoopHosted by Gilbert Cruz Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Robert Winfree and Mark Radulich review movies currently on streaming services and in theaters: Conclave/A Complete Unknown/The Brutalist Movie Review! First up is Conclave (2024). Then we move on to A Complete Unknown (2024). Finally we review The Brutalist (2024).Conclave is a 2024 political thriller film directed by Edward Berger and written by Peter Straughan, based on the 2016 novel by Robert Harris. The film stars Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Sergio Castellitto, and Isabella Rossellini. In the film, Cardinal Thomas Lawrence (Fiennes) organises a conclave to elect the next Pope and finds himself investigating secrets and scandals about the major candidates.Conclave premiered at the 51st Telluride Film Festival on 30 August 2024, was released in theatres in the United States by Focus Features on 25 October 2024 and in the United Kingdom by Black Bear UK on 29 November. The film received positive reviews from critics, with praise for the performances, directing, screenplay and cinematography, and grossed $82.4 million worldwide. It was named one of the top 10 films of 2024 by the National Board of Review and the American Film Institute. Among other accolades, it received eight nominations at the 97th Academy Awards (including Best Picture), six at the Golden Globe Awards (winning Best Screenplay), and tied Wicked with a leading 11 nominations at the 30th Critics' Choice Awards (including Best Picture).A Complete Unknown is a 2024 American biographical musical drama film directed by James Mangold, who co-wrote the screenplay with Jay Cocks, about American singer-songwriter Bob Dylan. Based on the 2015 book Dylan Goes Electric! by Elijah Wald, the film portrays Dylan through his earliest folk music success until the momentous controversy over his use of electric instruments at the 1965 Newport Folk Festival. Timothée Chalamet (who also produces) stars as Dylan, with Edward Norton, Elle Fanning, Monica Barbaro, Boyd Holbrook, Dan Fogler, Norbert Leo Butz, Eriko Hatsune, Big Bill Morganfield, Will Harrison, and Scoot McNairy in supporting roles. The film's title is derived from the chorus of Dylan's 1965 single "Like a Rolling Stone".A Complete Unknown premiered at the Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles on December 10, 2024, and was released in the United States by Searchlight Pictures on December 25, 2024. The film has grossed $74.2 million worldwide and received generally positive reviews from critics. It was named one of the top ten films of 2024 by the American Film Institute and the National Board of Review, the latter of which also awarded Fanning Best Supporting Actress.The film earned eight nominations at the 97th Academy Awards, including Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor (Chalamet), Best Supporting Actor (Norton), and Best Supporting Actress (Barbaro). It also received three nominations at the 82nd Golden Globe Awards (including Best Motion Picture – Drama), three at the Critics Choice Awards (including Best Picture), four at the 31st Screen Actors Guild Awards (including Outstanding Performance by a Cast in a Motion Picture) and six at the British Academy Film Awards (including Best Film).The Brutalist is a 2024 epic period drama film directed and produced by Brady Corbet from a script he co-wrote with Mona Fastvold. A co-production between the United States, United Kingdom, and Hungary, it stars Adrien Brody as a Hungarian-born Jewish Holocaust survivor who immigrates to the United States, where he struggles to achieve the American Dream until a wealthy client changes his life. The cast also features Felicity Jones, Guy Pearce, Joe Alwyn, Raffey Cassidy, Stacy Martin, Emma Laird, Isaach de Bankolé, and Alessandro Nivola.The Brutalist premiered at the 81st Venice International Film Festival on September 1, 2024, where Corbet was awarded the Silver Lion for Best Direction, and was named one of the top ten films of 2024 by the American Film Institute. The film earned 10 nominations at the 97th Academy Awards (including Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor for Brody, Best Supporting Actress for Jones, and Best Supporting Actor for Pearce), and at the 82nd Golden Globe Awards won three awards, including Best Motion Picture – Drama.[7][8] It was released in the United States by A24 on December 20, 2024, and in the United Kingdom by Universal Pictures and Focus Features on January 24, 2025.Disclaimer: The following may contain offensive language, adult humor, and/or content that some viewers may find offensive – The views and opinions expressed by any one speaker does not explicitly or necessarily reflect or represent those of Mark Radulich or W2M Network.Mark Radulich and his wacky podcast on all the things:https://linktr.ee/markkind76alsohttps://www.teepublic.com/user/radulich-in-broadcasting-networkFB Messenger: Mark Radulich LCSWTiktok: @markradulichtwitter: @MarkRadulichInstagram: markkind76RIBN Album Playlist: https://suno.com/playlist/91d704c9-d1ea-45a0-9ffe-5069497bad59

Having worked as a BBC television journalist, and as political editor for the Observer newspaper, Robert Harris published his debut novel Fatherland in 1992. A counterfactual story set in the 1960s that imagines Nazi Germany had won the Second World War, the book was a global bestseller. Since then Robert Harris has written 15 novels, mainly historical fiction which ranges from the ancient Roman politics of Pompeii and his Cicero trilogy, to the Restoration era manhunt of Act Of Oblivion, and Papal thriller Conclave. His most recent novel Precipice is about the romantic relationship between prime minister Herbert Asquith young socialite Venetia Stanley during the First World War. Robert Harris tells John Wilson about how reading The Origins of the Second World War by the historian A. J. P. Taylor, as a teenager ignited his interest in looking at history from perspectives that challenge the accepted narratives. Later, reading both the fiction and non-fiction of George Orwell inspired him to attempt to make writing about politics into an art form, as Orwell had done in works including 1984.Producer: Edwina PitmanArchive used: Did Hitler Cause The War?, BBC1, 9 July 1961 The Hitler Diaries, Newsnight, BBC2, 8 July 1985 Reading from Fatherland, Robert Harris Reading from 1984, George Orwell, BBC Radio 4, 2 January 1984 Reading from The Ghost, Robert Harris

This week our hosts, Josh and Jade, review the Oscar worthy film, Conclave. The political thriller is directed by Edward Berger and written by Peter Straughan, based on the 2016 novel by Robert Harris. The film stars Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Sergio Castellitto, and Isabella Rossellini. In the film, Cardinal Thomas Lawrence (Fiennes) organises a papal conclave to elect the next pope and finds himself investigating secrets and scandals about each candidate. Also, inside the episode our hosts discuss the new Holes TV series reboot on Disney+ and the season 2 finale of Silo on Apple TV+. Click play and listen ok?!

This week on Sinica, I'm joined by Lizzi Lee, fellow at the Asia Society Policy Institute and by my lights one of the most astute, well-informed people writing on China in the English-speaking world today. She has fascinating perspectives on China's preparations for the Trump administration, on China's reluctance to roll out large-scale cash stimulus, and Xi Jinping's challenges. Don't miss this one! (I will update the show notes and publish the transcript early next week — thanks for your patience!)3:39 – Lizzi's argument from her op-ed, “Counting the Hawks in the Trump 2.0 Administration is Pointless”: the importance of which country will be able to get its act together 10:25 – U.S.-China competition as a long game, from China's perspective14:22 – How China views the current state of division in American politics19:00 – The main risks and opportunities for China presented by Trump's return, including opportunities in the geopolitical realm with the Europeans 28:09 – The state of China's domestic economy33:28 – Counterarguments to critiques of China's cautious deployment of stimulus, and where Lizzi stands on the issue 43:46 – Lizzi's thoughts on deflation in the Chinese economy 49:30 – The idea of accepting short-term pain for long-term gain in economic recovery 53:59 – Xi Jinping's vision for China's economy 58:46 – How Xi Jinping's ideological language can be challenging for officials and markets 1:03:57 – How China's political calendar has hindered execution of policy 1:06:42 – What Lizzi thinks the Chinese leadership should prioritize nowPaying it Forward: Lizzi recommends the work of Barclay Bram, especially his series on Chinese youth at the Asia Society here.Recommendations:Lizzi: Grazia Ting Deng's book Chinese Espresso: Contested Race and Convivial Space in Contemporary ItalyKaiser: More historical fiction by Robert Harris, including An Officer and a Spy and Munich.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The first title that springs to mind at the mention of William Golding's name is most often Lord of the Flies. The classic story of a group of schoolboys marooned on a desert island all but made his reputation and has somewhat overshadowed his twelve other novels. Golding was a fascinating and often troubled man, a voracious reader who enjoyed the Odyssey in Greek as well as Georgette Heyer and Jilly Cooper and was an influence on many novelists from Stephen King to Penelope Lively, Ben Okri and Kazuo Ishiguro. Definitely a writer ripe for rediscovery. Now, the Slightly Foxed team sit down with the author's daughter Judy and Golding expert Professor Tim Kendall to discuss the life and work of this brave and highly original writer, whose novels transport the reader to distant but entirely believable worlds. His work grapples with the big questions of existence but his originality as a writer sometimes worked against him, and Lord of the Flies was rejected by seven publishers before it was accepted by Charles Monteith at Faber. It was glowingly reviewed and became a bestseller but, behind the scenes, Golding was struggling with his addiction to alcohol and the fame his writing would bring him. After a poor reception from the critics for several of his following books, including both The Spire and The Pyramid, Golding was thrown into a deep depression. This crisis lasted over ten years, but when he finally returned to writing he went on to produce a series of successful novels – including Rites of Passage, winner of the 1980 Booker Prize. In 1983 he was awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature.  The usual round of reading recommendations include South from Granada, Gerald Brenan's recollection of the years he spent in an Andalusian village in the 1920s with visits from the Bloomsbury group; Robert Harris's Precipice, a semi-fictional account of the relationship in 1914 between Prime Minister Asquith, and Venetia Stanley, and Penelope Lively's novel Passing On. For episode show notes, please see the Slightly Foxed website. Opening music: Preludio from Violin Partita No. 3 in E Major by Bach Hosted by Rosie Goldsmith Produced by Philippa Goodrich

“If everything's being played on the surface, it's very hard to make that character come to life. You want hinterland, you want subtext. You want the things that are buried, the things that we don't know about them, the things that maybe they don't know about themselves. And always, the story is about this excavation of what's underneath the surface. One way or the other, that's kind of what story is. It's about bringing things to the surface,” says Conclave screenwriter Peter Straughan, about the importance of giving your characters secrets.  In this episode, we speak to Peter Straughan about his powerful film Conclave, starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci and John Lithgow. Based on the book by Robert Harris, the movie follows five very different modern Catholic Cardinals as they go through the process of electing a new Pope. Straughan talks about why he loves a flawed hero, getting to tour the Vatican, what surprised him the most, and whether or not he thinks the real Pope will watch this movie.  Having also written the TV show Wolf Hall about Tudor England, Straughan also talks about the surprising connection between King Henry VIII and the modern Catholic Church.  “Both the world of the Tudors and the world of Conclave give us a way of looking at human behavior and the pursuit of power from a sort of angle that makes it particularly clear and fresh, without the clutter of the normal secular world of elections, that really anchors it in the human individual. So, Tudor England was maybe the last time where the sexual desires of one man was going to dominate the political landscape of an entire country. Maybe not the last time. Maybe this still happens in the world. But it becomes really pared down to basics, so you see very clearly what's going on. And I think it feels the same with Conclave, it's about the personalities and the morals of these few individuals,” says Straughan.  Just a warning, there are spoilers about the ending of Conclave in this episode, but we give you plenty of warning before they are discussed.  To hear more about Straughan's writing process, listen to the podcast.   

Join Lafayette, Carlos, and Laura in this exciting episode of Nerds Talking! The crew dives into the gripping mystery thriller Conclave (2024), directed by Edward Berger and based on the novel by Robert Harris. Starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, and John Lithgow, the film follows Cardinal Thomas Lawrence as he leads a papal conclave filled with secrets, scandals, and unexpected twists. Who will rise to the position of pope, and what dark truths will be revealed? Carlos also gives a scathing review of Netflix's Subservience, starring Megan Fox as Alice, an advanced AI housekeeper who turns from helpful to horrifyingly possessive in this sci-fi thriller gone wrong. Plus, we kick off a brand-new segment: Song of the Week! Tune in to discover what tracks the crew is loving and why they think you should give them a listen. With plenty of humor, nerdy insights, and a dash of music, this episode is packed with laughs and lively discussion. Don't miss it! --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/nerdstalking/support

Already being mentioned for the Academy's "Best Picture" and "Best Actor" awards, this screen adaptation of Robert Harris' international bestselling novel Conclave is now available to rent on streaming platforms like Amazon Prime, Apple TV, VuDu, and more! Having watched it together the week of Thanksgiving, Ken Kemp and I were chomping at the bit the next day to debrief the major messages, especially in the final scene. If you've already seen it, you may have completely overlooked the symbolism of the turtles, but we didn't! This episode contains major spoilers, so if you'd rather watch the film first, listen to how we unpack it after. Even if you choose not to see this film, I think you'll still gain a great deal listening in on our reactions.

Welcome to The Not Old Better Show, on radio and podcast, I'm your host, Paul Vogelzang. Today, we're diving into a world on the verge of collapse—where passion, politics, and peril collide in the summer of 1914. The world was inching toward the Great War, and in the heart of Britain, secrets were being exchanged that could have changed everything.Our guest today is the brilliant Robert Harris, whose latest novel, available on Apple Books, Precipice, masterfully intertwines history and fiction to bring this harrowing moment to life. Harris, renowned for his storytelling and meticulous research, takes us inside a clandestine affair between the British Prime Minister, H. H. Asquith, and the young, aristocratic Venetia Stanley. But this is far more than a tale of forbidden love—it's a thriller that exposes the fragility of power, the dangerous intersection of personal and political, and how the secrets of a single woman could threaten an entire nation.In Precipice, Robert Harris paints a vivid portrait of a society on the brink, capturing not just the politics but the people whose choices echo through history. Today, we'll discuss the extraordinary research behind this novel, the real-life affair that could have toppled a government, and the timeless lessons it offers for our world today.  We'll also discuss ‘CONCLAVE'film is releasing in theaters in early November.  The adaptation of Harris' book, starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Sergio Castellitto, and Isabella Rossellini. My thanks to Robert Harris, author of the new book, Precipice, available at Apple Books.  Remember, Robert Harris also authored ‘CONCLAVE'film is releasing in theaters in early November.  The adaptation of Harris' book, starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Sergio Castellitto, and Isabella Rossellini.  Check it out. My thanks to our wonderful executive producer Sam Heninger.  My thanks to you our wonderful audience here on radio and podcast, Be well, be safe and Let's Talk About Better™. The Not Old Better Show.  Thanks everybody and we'll see you next week.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Today, we're diving into a world on the verge of collapse—where passion, politics, and peril collide in the summer of 1914. The world was inching toward the Great War, and in the heart of Britain, secrets were being exchanged that could have changed everything.Our guest today is the brilliant Robert Harris, whose latest novel, available on Apple Books, Precipice, masterfully intertwines history and fiction to bring this harrowing moment to life. Harris, renowned for his storytelling and meticulous research, takes us inside a clandestine affair between the British Prime Minister, H. H. Asquith, and the young, aristocratic Venetia Stanley. But this is far more than a tale of forbidden love—it's a thriller that exposes the fragility of power, the dangerous intersection of personal and political, and how the secrets of a single woman could threaten an entire nation.Asquith, caught between his obsession for Venetia and his responsibility to lead a nation into war, is a man crumbling under pressure. Meanwhile, Venetia, clever, bored, and reckless, is no victim but a woman caught in the very machinations of history—at a time when women couldn't even vote. But as war clouds gather over Europe, this private intrigue becomes a national security risk, and the stakes couldn't be higher.In Precipice, Robert Harris paints a vivid portrait of a society on the brink, capturing not just the politics but the people whose choices echo through history. Today, we'll discuss the extraordinary research behind this novel, the real-life affair that could have toppled a government, and the timeless lessons it offers for our world today.  My thanks to Robert Harris, author of the new book, Precipice, available at Apple Books.  Remember, Robert Harris also authored ‘CONCLAVE'film is releasing in theaters in early November.  The adaptation of Harris' book, starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Sergio Castellitto, and Isabella Rossellini. Check it out. My thanks to our wonderful executive producer Sam Heninger.  My thanks to you our wonderful audience here on radio and podcast, Be well, be safe and Let's Talk About Better™. The Not Old Better Show.  Thanks everybody and we'll see you next week.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.