Podcasts about San Quentin State Prison

Music superstar and Grammy Award winner Jelly Roll joins Gillie Da King & Wallo267 for a powerful 2-part episode of Million Dollaz Worth of Game. In Part 1, Jelly Roll opens up about his incredible journey from incarceration to becoming one of the biggest artists in music. He breaks down how prison ultimately saved his life, why he continues to use his platform to uplift and inspire incarcerated people, and why his greatest accomplishment has nothing to do with music — raising his daughter. Wallo and Jelly Roll connect on a different level as they share their experiences behind bars, the lessons they learned in prison, and what it takes to believe in a future when your current circumstances make it feel impossible. From incarceration to success, their stories are proof that your past doesn't have to determine where you end up. And this is only Part 1. Stay tuned for Part 2 next week as Jelly Roll, Gillie & Wallo head inside San Quentin State Prison to speak directly with incarcerated men and share the same game, hope, and perspective that helped them transform their own lives. This is bigger than music. This is MILLION DOLLAZ WORTH OF GAME. #JellyRoll #MillionDollazWorthOfGame #GillieAndWallo #MDWOG #GillieDaKing #Wallo267 #SanQuentin #JellyRollInterview #PrisonReform PRESENTED BY: Square - Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at https://square.com/go/MDWOG! #squarepod Draftkings - GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET, 800-327-5050/visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), mdgamblinghelp.org (MD), 800-981-0023 (PR). Wagering offered by DK Sportsbook: 21+. Present in most states. (18+ DC/NH/PR/WY). Void in CAN. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino (KS). Pass-thru of per wager tax may apply in IL.Event Trading offered by DraftKings Predictions, CFTC-registered: 18+. Trading involves risk of loss. Market availability varies. NEW: 1 per new DraftKings customer. $5+ deposit req. Trade $5 get $200 Prediction Dollars (1-year expiry); or bet $5 get $200 in Bonus Bets (7-day expiry and stake removed from payout). Rewards issued in $50 increments every 7 days via click-to-claim for 21 days. Click-to-claims expire 7 days after issuance. Rewards are non-withdrawable. 7 days = 168hrs. Ends 9/20/26 at 11:59 PM ET. BOOST: Opt-in req. 1 Profit Boost issued per customer per day (10% for trades, 50% for bets), valid only for NFL/CFB football transactions on the platform for which it's been issued. Bet/Trade restrictions apply and vary when offered (e.g. market, bet/trade type, min./max. transaction, bet odds/market pricing req. etc.). Boosts are single-use and must be applied BEFORE placing bet/trade. Boost only applies to profit from qualifying bet/trade and expires at the end of the final football game of the select game slate when offered. Trade market must settle to receive boost. Predictions offer void in NY. Terms: dkng.co/offer. Sponsored by DK. Cash App - Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/leqzqu0f #CashAppPod. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa® Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and The Bancorp Bank, N.A., pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A. Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and Bancorp debit flex card. Savings provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/mworthofgame

Explore APSC's My Family Audio Series A story-driven 3-part audio project about Cambodian, Hmong, Laotian, Vietnamese, and other Southeast Asian families doing everything possible to breathe with ease and live freely besides the people we love.  Created by the Asian Prisoner Support Committee and APEX Express, and hosted by writer and activist Michelle MiJung Kim, My Family seeks to answer many of the questions countless families in our communities are grappling with today. Mass deportation and family separation are fueled by isolation and silence. With My Family, we aim to dismantle both with stories full of heart, compassion, and an honest look at the tangled paths many of us take to reckon with the past, rebuild our lives, and make a new place home.  Our deep gratitude extends to all the community members who shared their stories with us, even while painful to recount. Their commitment to creating stronger, more informed communities is unparalleled.    My Family Ep. 1: How did we get here?  In our first episode, we talk to Roger Viet Chung to bring APSC's longstanding Restoring Our Original True Selves (ROOTS) program from inside San Quentin to listeners outside. Roger is faculty in the Department of Ethnic Studies at Laney College and a founder and faculty lead of Restoring our Communities (ROC), Laney College's program for formerly incarcerated students and justice involved juveniles. He previously served as the lead instructor and curriculum designers of ROOTS.  We also speak with NC, Pam, and T. NC was deported to Laos this past year. Pam was deported to Cambodia three years ago, and T was deported to Cambodia six years ago.  Music from episode 1, as well as related resources, can be found below in the show notes. If you are an impacted community member in California or have a family member who is directly impacted by detention and deportation, we encourage you to contact APSC at info@asianprisonersupport.com or our partners at New Light Wellness and the Center for Empowering Refugees and Immigrants.   Music: Somleng Tro Khmer by Satiya, a Cambodian Australia singer and songwriter Pka Kompong Thom by Satiya   Resources: My Family Episode 1 discussion guide  APSC Data Report on Incarcerated and Formerly Incarcerated Asians and Pacific Islanders Asian Law Caucus legal resources and video explainers for Southeast Asians facing deportation threats Eddy Zheng's story    Transcript Michelle MiJung Kim: [00:00:00] All across the United States, ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, is terrorizing immigrant neighborhoods. Every time I scroll on social media, I see horrifying videos of children being ripped apart from their parents as they get shoved inside unmarked cars of ICE agents. You can hear the family's cries for help, children wailing, neighbors and protesters yelling at the abductors.   The scene is [00:01:00] pure chaos, swirling with desperation and fear. I notice I'm clenching my jaw as I imagine the trauma of the moment that will last a lifetime for these families. But the scene usually ends here, and not long after I scroll away, I'm met with another slew of videos of similar intensity. But what happens to the people after this painful moment?   What happens to the families after the protesters depart? What happens when their loved ones actually get detained, get deported? where do they go, and what happens to those who remain? I'm your host, Michelle MiJung Kim, and I'm partnering with the Asian Prisoner Support Committee and APEX Express to bring you stories from families who are grappling with the impossible choices amid the cruelty and horrors of mass detention and deportation, stories full of truth, understanding, and lived experiences that are too often hidden or silenced. [00:02:00]   Tony (pseudonym): Even though I don't have no family and I don't even have no family over there, and I don't even know nothing about Vietnam because I left the country when I was 10 years old.”   My dad raised all four of m- you know, me and my sibling all by himself. So just emotion and everything rush in, it's just like, you know, heartbreaking.   So every time, when my dad come to visit me, he always break down and cry because he just like, feel sad that his oldest son is gonna get shipped back to his country.   Pam (pseudonym): My son bought a car for me. He bought a car. He's like, “Mama, you're not getting deported. I got you a Honda Civic already. I got you a car. I got a place for you.” You know how, that affect me when your family member bought you stuff be thinking they'd be coming home?   Michelle MiJung Kim: [00:03:00] Every family threatened by ICE is different, with their unique traditions, memories, and inside jokes. But there are also fears and questions that every community being ripped apart shares, whether our families are Asian, Latino, Black, or Arab. For many Southeast Asians in the United States, there's one other thing in common.   Their families found refuge here in the '70s and '80s, fleeing unthinkable genocide and war in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. Most have loved ones who didn't survive. The ones who made it out, around one point one million, are the largest refugee community ever resettled in the United States. Upon arriving here, families were forced into impoverished and under-resourced neighborhoods.   Parents who just lived through war and genocide never got the mental and physical healthcare they critically needed. To survive poverty and attacks in their neighborhoods and schools, some youth turned to gangs and [00:04:00] crimes. After serving their time, they've since grown up, transformed, and found their ways to heal.   They are now mentors, parents, small business owners, homeowners, just everyday neighbors who, like most of us, take their kids to school and pick up groceries and call this country home. And yet, around sixteen thousand of these Southeast Asian community members are facing imminent deportation based on convictions from years, if not decades ago, and despite the fact that they already served their sentence.   Today, California is home to the largest Southeast Asian American population, followed by Texas, Washington, and Minnesota. And these families are seeking answers. How did we get here? What can we do to keep our family safe and together? And their friends and neighbors are asking questions, too. How can this be?   What can we do? That's where these stories come [00:05:00] in. We're taking a closer look at what happens to families after the headlines pass and the blaring noise quiets down. You'll hear directly from people who are living on all sides of this nightmare, all trying to do what's best for their kids, their parents, their loved ones.   Welcome to My Family.   As some listeners may know, the Asian Prisoner Support Committee based in Oakland, California, was born out of the campaign to support the San Quentin 3, Eddy Zheng, Viet Mike Ngo, and Rico Riemedio. The San Quentin 3 advocated for ethnic studies in the California State Prison, and in retaliation, the prison administration sent them to solitary confinement.   Out of that struggle, they started the Restoring Our Original True Selves, or ROOTS program at San Quentin, which the Asian [00:06:00] Prisoner Support Committee continues today, teaching hundreds of people under the motto, ” No history, no self. Know history, know self.” Together in ROOTS, community members incarcerated in California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation prisons, or CDCR, learn immigrant and refugee histories, address intergenerational and inherited trauma, and build lifelong leadership and community skills.   Many ROOTS alumni are now mentors and counselors in California, while others are working in reentry, violence prevention, faith, and other community organizations across the state.   To kick off our first episode, we'll start with some context from Roger Viet Chung. Roger is faculty in the Department of Ethnic Studies at Laney College in Oakland, and founder and faculty lead of Restoring Our Communities, Laney's program for formerly incarcerated students and justice-involved youth.   He has served as the lead instructor and curriculum developer of the ROOTS in San [00:07:00] Quentin.   A content warning for our listeners that in today's episode we'll be discussing war and genocide, inherited trauma and self-hatred, depression, and family separation. Here's Roger.   Roger Viet Chung: My name is Roger Viet Chung. Uh, I'm from Oakland, California, and I currently work for Laney College. At Laney College I instruct in the Department of Ethnic Studies, a range of classes that range from Southeast Asian studies all the way to courses like race, gender, and sports.   In 2013, um, I had the honor and privilege of, supporting and facilitating a course for Asian Americans and others in San Quentin State Prison, and which launched me on a, a journey of understanding more about incarceration, the prison industrial complex, abolition, the way pipelines form. And since 2013, I've been deeply involved in figuring out how to work reentry, how to support those in custody, how to help people come home, how to help people on parole tell their stories.   Um, [00:08:00] and so since 2013, uh, I've been working for a program called Restoring Our Communities, which is a reentry program at Laney College, where we support the reentry of folks coming home from prison, jail, juvenile hall and help them explore their post-secondary pathways and dreams. In addition to that, I also run our Laney College, a satellite campus inside the Alameda County Juvenile Justice Center, where, we work with, uh, young people who are interested in going to college, transferring to four-year universities, um, and, uh, reuniting with their families.   Uh, I'm a Vietnamese American. I was born in, uh, 1978 and, born in the United States, my proximity to incarceration and the entire carceral landscape you know, was pretty distant up until I went to graduate school. Uh, when I was in graduate school in, um, the early 2000s, I heard a story about a person named Eddy Zheng, who at that time was incarcerated in San Quentin State Prison.   We heard this story about how Eddy and two other folks were asking for ethnic studies programming at their [00:09:00] prison when there was a growing movement for education inside CDCR. Uh, we understood that, you know, that movement, um, you know, landed Eddy in solitary confinement, got him transferred, uh, to another prison.   And I think for me, that was my first moment where as an Asian American, I connected both with this idea that Asian Americans were doing time, but also you know, it intersected with my field of study, ethnic studies. And so, that was probably my first moment where I saw myself possibly in the work.   Michelle MiJung Kim: Before we come back to Roger, we had a chance to talk to Eddy Zheng about his fight for ethnic studies at San Quentin, the early days of APSC, and how he continues to support incarcerated and formerly incarcerated community members. Let's hear from Eddy   Eddy Zheng: Happy New Breath everyone. My name is Eddy Zheng.   The importance of ethnic studies, Asian American study, [00:10:00] is really focuses on the long tradition of the struggles, that many of the immigrants and refugees, the people who came to this country, uh, for multiple reasons, right? Some of them came voluntarily, and some of them came as refugee because the forced migration as a result of the United States' foreign policies, and then many of the push and pull challenges that came from other, uh, countries across the world.   The long tradition of, of that struggle really is a internal one, right? The internal struggle is finding a sense of belonging in a foreign country or in a country even though we may be born here sometimes, there's still this sense of being treated and being respected as an American versus a perpetual uh, foreigner.    And for many of the people who were impacted by the criminal legal system [00:11:00] and by this type of oppressive foreign policy and systemic racism oftentimes people don't necessarily get an opportunity to understand their culture and history that informs their identity. So therefore as even I was learning how to read and write and speak English and to eventually to become thinking critically I have experienced the power of when I was able to comprehend and articulate the connection that I have, right, with my ancestors and my culture and the history that informs my identity.   Immediately, I was able to, find confidence and find that sense of belonging that I was not alone, that there, there was a long lineage of the knowledge, The connected point to, not only who I am as an individual, but then who I am connected [00:12:00] to, the rest of the humanity, right?   I think when we talk about that lineage really ties back to the 1968 Third World Liberation Front, when students and people in the community, the activists that who stood up fighting for the opportunity to have curriculums and, or materials that really teaches a more well-rounded history around, the makeup of the United States of America, So the fight for the Asian American studies, women's studies, and global studies was very important, as it continue to 1969 in UC Berkeley, and then also later on in 1999, where students are also facing threats of having ethnic studies and Asian American studies eliminated, from the university curriculum, right?   So I have experienced all those lineage of struggles to fight for what the basic academic right, for people [00:13:00] to learn about each other's culture and history and how that historically has been continued to also trying to erase history. when I was in San Quentin State Prison, then once I was able to start to become a thinker, then I realized especially after September 11, the scapegoating of people of color, scapegoating of people that who came from other countries is perpetuated within the prison industrial complex, myself and three of my friends, we were advocating for, uh, the opportunity to be able to, uh, engage, in this process of, Asking to have Asian American studies or ethnic studies within the prison college program, And so that, that was when we signed a proposal, you know, advocating not only for the opportunity, to study, Asian American histories a- and cultures, but other people's culture and [00:14:00] histories at the same time, and then also honoring the prisoners' rights, right?   To choose, what we want to learn and how we participate in the decision-making process within the volunteer-ran college program in the San Quentin State Prison. The outcome was the three of my friends who signed the proposal you know, Mike Ngo Rico Riemedio we were, uh, put into solitary confinement uh, for signing that proposal.   And then my other friend that, who signed the proposal, Stephen Liebb, you know, even though he didn't go to solitary confinement, that he, but he was punished as a result of signing the proposal. That's when the forming of an unexpected Asian American movement, right, in the Bay Area, which is the Asian Prisoner Support Committee, where volunteers and activists that who have heard of the struggles, of the activism inside San Quentin advocas- in advocacy for Asian American studies, ethnic studies, and prisoners rights, that they [00:15:00] came together to support us, you know, inside the prison system.   And so it's very interesting in that, the dynamic, uh, between, we want you to, uh, learn and we wanna give you opportunity to learn, but then learning and applying what you learn comes at a price, that's where the importance of why ethnic studies of Asian Americans are important because it allow us to gain power, right? when we gain power of thinking, and critical thinking, then there's this fear from the, the people that, who have power and don't wanna share that power.   And so that's why it's very important. So fast-forward to post-incarceration after… first of all, I spent 11 months, uh, in solitary confinement as a result of that advocacy in San Quentin. And then later on, uh, when I was finally released after, uh, being incarcerated for 21 years, [00:16:00] I've never forgotten the importance of, creating more learning opportunities within the prison system for those that who are still incarcerated.   Around 2012, that's when we, you we meaning that, you know, that's when I me and members of the Asian Prisoner Support Committee, we started thinking about how do we go inside the prison and create Asian American studies and ethnic studies program inside, We were able to went under you know, as volunteers, we were able to go into San Quentin State Prison to participate, uh, in in this program called, TRUST. I believe the acronym is, uh, Teaching Responsibility Utilizing Sociological Training, uh, which is designed to transform incarcerated men, uh, from social liabilities into assets, right?   So, Uh, while we were participating, we were able to get an opportunity to engage The participants who are [00:17:00] AAPIs to ask them if they are interested into creating a program where we're able to, learn about our culture and history, And they all agreed that it's important.   After about, like, almost like a year or more of kind of like a collaboration, brainstorming, and advocacy from within the prison, finally in 2013, I think that's when, we started the first cohort of the ROOTS program. The ROOTS acronym is Restoring Our Original True Selves, uh, which is, really came about as a result of the brainstorming of the prisoners, a lo- of many of the lifetime prisoners who were inside.    Because they felt that along the way they have lost themselves, right, as they were trying to find a sense of belonging.   So the goal is to, uh, use that as a way to heal intergenerational trauma that many of the prisoners experience when they came to the United States, and that ended up, making poor choices and then, [00:18:00] uh, involved in the criminal legal system.   that's when the first ROOTS program was started in 20, uh, 13. And then what is interesting was that when it started, I wasn't allowed to go in to participate in the program that I co-founded with the people inside, it wasn't, uh- Until the graduation of the first cohort of ROOTS, uh, that they allow me to go in to do a keynote speech, right? Because the participants inside, advocated saying that, “Hey, we would like Eddy to come in to be our keynote speaker at our graduation.”   And so that's when I was able to go in and really, experience this fruition of all the advocacy. seeing many of those leaders and participants graduating from the first year of the ROOTS program really solidified why an Asian American study is so important, right? It really focuses on, uh, for the participant to [00:19:00] learn about the connection the, to the ancestors and the culture and, and the history.   I mean, That sense of belonging they had lost along the way or for many was not able to learn in traditional economic environment, and then part of this is also even though the curriculum focused Asian American studies, but then it also connects to other people's colors of histories and how the intersection of that of that experience domestically, internationally, are connected to the same systems of oppression in, in that space.   I think what, what is also important is that once they were able to learn about their own culture and history, they inform their identity. They're able to also learn about other people's history, other people's culture that inform their identities. So immediately there's opportunity to, humanize each other And so that's why this is so important that we must engage in the collective learning [00:20:00] process that allow us the opportunity for collective healing. And when the collective learning, collective healing is invested and engaged in racial solidarity, that's how we can embark on this journey of collective liberation.   The ROOTS program is the first ever Asian American studies ethnic studies program in the history of the penal system, and then this continues on to today, right? since 2013.   Michelle MiJung Kim: That was Eddy Zheng. In 2017, Eddy founded the New Breath Foundation to help underserved frontline groups empower, heal, and change the lives of Asian, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander community members with a focus on the incarcerated, formerly incarcerated, and those who have been impacted by immigration and criminal legal [00:21:00] systems.   Let's return to Roger and what stood out to him when he first started working in San Quentin.   Roger Viet Chung: I think when I first went into San Quentin State Prison in 2013, um, again, I mentioned I was born in 1978, and, um, you know, I looked across the room to people who were around my age, um, none of whom were actually born in the United States. And so I think there's this really interesting question that needs to be pursued around Southeast Asians, Asian Americans that have immigrated at a young age, you know, largely through, the pathways of war that make that experience so much different than a, an experience like my own, right?   Born here in the United States, but also different than my parents, who immigrated to the United States as adults. And so the 1.5 generation as we will frame it today, we're gonna be talking about Asian Americans, Southeast Asians, refugees, immigrants that came to the United States at a, a young age, you know, all the way up until their adolescence. We're looking at a population that has had significant experience with [00:22:00] social institutions like schools, uh, elementary schools, middle schools, and high schools that their parents may not have.   This was a time in California where we began to see more prisons being built, more apparatuses designed to be able to figure out how to work with young people, mainly through the lens of punishment and deterrence.   And so I think the idea of coming into, a state like California during a political landscape where, punishment, prisons and tough on crime positions were being applied to both adults and young people is something to consider when we're thinking about the 1.5 generation, um, that has been incarcerated.   I think that as the 1.5 generation immigrated into the United States you know, through various refugee and immigration policies, you know, they're inheriting a context in California where they've already been criminalized and their pathways into, uh, juvenile halls, into county jails, and into state prisons are being mapped out, without them really even knowing.   In [00:23:00] ROOTS, um, which was an Asian Prisoner Support Committee sponsored program, everyone has an, a unique and individual story, but, you know, the more we learned about people's stories, there just seemed to be a lot of collective threads that, tied everyone together. so if we were to talk about the 1.5 generation, you know, like a common collective journey would be something like this, right?   You know, whether a person escaped from Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos a lot of the common stories were, young people were born in Southeast Asia during or at the tail end of the wars in Southeast Asia, and most of them were not part of the original refugee exodus, which mainly featured, the elite and the educated.   And so one of the collective stories has been that a lot of the 1.5 generation, who would have otherwise left at much younger ages or even been born in the United States were experiencing significant transitions in countries that, were returning from civil [00:24:00] war. a lot of that destruction and a lot of the, the trauma and those experiences, right, began right around there.   And when people began thinking about, exiting, these positions, whether it be for political or, or class-based reasons or both, one of the collective stories that we tended to hear very often was that young people were really able to visualize, remember, right, even today, a lot of violence, a lot of trauma, that, you know, really propelled their, either their escape or, their emigration Young people met, went to camps oftentimes.   If they left Vietnam, they were in the Philippines, Malaysia, Hong Kong or Thailand. And if, you left Cambodia or you left Laos, you ended up in a variety of different forms of camps in Thailand awaiting for United Nations sponsorship. I think this is an important part of understanding the journey, because a lot of the one point five generation that became incarcerated were exposed to a variety of different traumas at [00:25:00] young ages that they still had kind of these vivid memories of.   And so as they, they left camps, you know, many stayed in camps for months, some even years. They were resettled into the United States, often in places that didn't have a lot of Asian Americans. And so at the time, United States refugee policy really asked all the states to share, right, some sort of, right, burden in resettling refugees.   And so a lot of the one point five generation that we met inside San Quentin, you know, their story in the United States didn't actually originate in California. Many of them were in Wisconsin or Ohio or Florida or Arkansas as their first stop into the United States before their parents did a secondary migration into a place that had more support, had a stronger ethnic community, um, and in some cases, right, just had, more protection against racial discrimination.   And so as parents, moved into ethnic communities and, and sought spaces that could protect themselves from racial [00:26:00] discrimination, the young students, right, the one point five generation didn't have, those same protections. And so many of them were enrolled into public schools, oftentimes schools that were underfunded and oftentimes schools that, uh, were in districts that had young people of color competing for resources.   When it came to that, that 1.5 generation, that journey into United States schools, was, I think, the beginning of understanding how to survive in a place where, a unique form of racial discrimination, a unique form, right, of class identity had to be navigated as they began their journeys in education, a lot of them feeling a lot of pressure to be, strong students in order to, you know, deliver their parents out of poverty. A lot of themes came up. One of the approaches that we took in the ROOTS program was looking at trauma.   We're not the first program to look at this, but I, I do think that it's a very important and interesting way to think about, [00:27:00] understanding the stories of people who are incarcerated. You know, oftentimes the, the narrative of people who are incarcerated is that they have committed an act that has traumatized another person, and therefore, right, their own trauma is something that we often either don't allow, ignore, or outright say, right?   “You don't deserve your own trauma because of the things that landed you in custody.” And so I think one of the projects that we really wanted to look at was to help people kind of, like, name their trauma, explore it, and, right, heal from it. And so when we thought about, the activities and the curriculum design, you know, we had people kind of, share stories of immigration, share stories of how, their parents came to name them, stuff like that.   And, you know, one humongous theme that came out in the ROOTS program was this idea of self-hatred and how much being in, right, the United States and being in places where you experience discrimination and you experience poverty led to really, really low concepts of [00:28:00] self and, , really resulted in, people, literally writing, right, reflections, saying things like, “I hated myself.   I hated how I looked,” right? “I hated my name.” Those are some of the themes that kind of were fleshed out as we explored the ROOTS program. And we wanted to take a look at, How that trauma not only would h-help people kind of understand their own trajectories more, but how that trauma could also be translated into, right, a more institutional form of advocacy for themselves and understanding how to do things like describe and explain, right, and be introspective about the things in their youth that led to, right, their incarceration.   Because one of the things we also noticed was that people were struggling to tell stories about their families because they didn't wanna bring shame, they didn't want to blame their families. And so, a lot of our 1.5 generation folks struggled with being able to tell a story to a parole board that kind of held their freedom in their hands.   And so being [00:29:00] able to have people tell their stories, right, to engage, right, some of the things that they experienced as traumatic, help them heal from those things, but also name them, , through ethnic studies concepts, through, history and through culture, was in a lot of ways, very freeing.   I think I'd be remiss to not mention that, you know, when we did programming inside ROOTS, there was a very, very, I think collective agreed upon, workshop that people inside wanted to do, and it was a workshop about gangs. Not just the criminalization of gangs and how gangs have become criminalized into the '90s, into the 2000s, but I think, incarcerated people, were really advocating around things like gang prevention. And so a lot of stories came out around, like, why people join gangs in the first place and, , it's not a brand-new story at all, but it was something that they wanted to explore and they were really, I think, very adamant about exploring among themselves.   And, you know, I think if you talk to incarcerated people, one of the things that they're so passionate about is [00:30:00] making sure their stories reach young people, which has also inspired me to go into juvenile hall to do a lot of work. But, one of the things that they wanted to develop, I think conceptually, was the idea of the migration to school-to-gang pipeline.   And, you know, whether or not the gang itself, should be conceptualized as, right, a protective, mechanism against racism, against bullying, against harassment, against exploitation. I mean, those are all things that we know, young people are looking for, as they join gangs, especially those that are immigrating from Southeast Asia or even, right, Latin America.   I think the folks inside were really, really adamant about making that connection and understanding that, not only their participation in gangs, but the criminalization of the gangs through that participation was one of the pathways that led them to places like juvenile hall, the California Youth Authority, the Division of Juvenile Justice.   I think the folks inside would, um, say that they need to be accountable to you know, the decisions that [00:31:00] they made and they wish that they were stronger about not making decisions to do things like join, criminal-based organizations. But, I think that there is a reality that, you know, there are a lot of social forces that, drove, that type of youth behavior.   And so, when we were in San Quentin, I think a lot of the folks were like, we need to improve this idea by, you know, understanding that, part of our journey has been, as 1.5 generation young people is , our responses to our trauma, our responses to racism, our responses to, disconnects between us and our families, particularly our parents, right, led us through a path, that was laden with policies that were designed to punish us.   You know, I think something that's really important that that I would wanna mention is, you know, the apparatuses that were designed to control and to rehabilitate and to correct youth, those apparatuses have been abolished because they didn't work.   And so when I think about the 1.5 generation that immigrated to the United States during a time of [00:32:00] heavy, heavy juvenile punishment, had they immigrated today, right, and, these systems not existing, you know, would they have done a significant time in state prison? You know, I don't know.   Would they been criminally adjudicated as adults? I don't know. And so I think that when we think about, you know, Asian Americans and Southeast Asians and Pacific Islanders that are coming to the United States at a very specific time, specifically those guys we worked with in ROOTS, you know, history was just not on their side, and that's not something that individuals can control.   And so when we think about the situations that we're put in, I reflect on my own life about, you know, looking at people that look like me that were the same age as me and, just weren't born in the United States and had privileges like I did. You know, I think those are some of the things that, I would ask the community to reflect upon.   That, you know, we're looking at, such a traumatic and punished time in California and U.S. history to really kind of take, a broader approach and to be able to, you know, deconstruct some of the things that have happened to help understand the lives of people who, you know, are in ICE detention today   Michelle MiJung Kim: [00:33:00] That was Roger Viet Chung, faculty in Laney College's Department of Ethnic Studies and founder of Restoring Our Communities. This is APEX Express. We'll return after a short break. [00:34:00]   NC (pseudonym): We were refugees. It was because of the, the war, the secret war in Laos, I guess.   Michelle MiJung Kim: This is NC. He grew up in California after his parents' harrowing escape from war and persecution in Laos. He was incarcerated for 24 years as a result of a conviction when he was a young person. He earned parole last year in [00:35:00] 2025.   NC (pseudonym): You know, I don't know for sure, but I'm just going off what people say and what they tell me is because- we were refugees, and we were hunted, and, so we fled, and crossed the river into Thailand.   And from Thailand we were, um, we were sent to the US. That's it.   When my, when I came here, my dad says, ” Well, you gotta learn everything here, know the language and everything, because this is your country now.   You're gonna live here.” So that's, that's what he told me.   Things were tough because my parents don't know nothing about this country, so they don't, You know, it's help was very, I would say, I think the best word I can use is help was very narrow, because we had, like, an…   I had, like, an uncle who knew the language, and they would help my, dad and my mom. And then, um, my dad actually went to a vocational training school to learn how to do auto body, This was in when we were in, in Long Beach, but they [00:36:00] came over to, uh, Stockton to open up a, um, garage, you to fix cars and do auto body. Growing up it was just hard because, you know, we were, uh, always poor and we didn't know how to adjust to the c- you know, the community.   America is, like, totally different, 'cause we go to school and then we read, write, speak English, and then we don't, we don't do none of that inside the house. So there's kind of that culture clash where, you know, the parents wanna teach you something and then you go to school and you learn something else, and then you're s- you struggle with your, um, you know, everyday life because, those are two different things   I was basically working while I was in prison, taking a lot of self-help classes and, um, earning certifications and trying to better myself, um, learning job skills. So when I, parole, I can, become a productive member of society. So while I was in, also incarcerated, I was taking college courses, to try to, attain a [00:37:00] AA degree.   So I was doing a lot of that stuff while I was in prison programming. My plan was… when I got out, as far as for work I would just like any job will do, just as long as I got work, any job will do.   But the goal was to continue my education, get my, uh, degree in, um, sociology, try to to open up a, a place and to be, um, LCSW certified, a licensed clinical social worker so I can help people, just like how, um, when I was, um, incarcerated, I was talking to, um, an LCSW so they can like, help you when you get back from this environment to the streets to help you adjust. First of all, it's helping people, and a lot of people, when you come out and get out, there's really nothing, like nobody's… the way I see it is, like- I don't see a lot of help, you know?   I don't see a lot of help or any [00:38:00] help, in my community that I'm at. I figured that, you know what? More help or help is always good, and a lot of times people… While, while I was in, um, incarcerated, you know, incarceration does affect you, it, in a way, institutionalizes you and makes you think a certain way, act a certain way, be a certain way, and when you come out, you have to, like, try to adjust to, you know, the norms of, outside living.   When I was talking to my, um, social worker, she was giving me a lot of those pointers. So I was thinking, like, “Okay, you know what? This is something I could do.” I could help, you know, like, a youth who's been incarcerated or young people coming out or anybody of any ages from anywhere that has, um, cultural issues, You know, like, if they're coming from a different country and they're, they're coming to the US and they're having, like, cultural issues. it's just about transitioning from one place to another place.” when I paroled from prison and they told me that, I have a ICE hold, an immigration hold. And [00:39:00] then I wasn't sure, like, what that was, if it's happening or not. And then when they paroled me, uh, immigration came and picked me up and took me to a detention facility.    ICE came and picked me up at the prison and, um, I went to a detention facility in Bakersfield called Mesa Verde   Michelle MiJung Kim: We're gonna come back to NC and what he experienced at Mesa Verde on the next episode, and what happened after he was deported to Laos just four months ago. Right now, I want to introduce you to another community member, Pam. Pam also grew up in California. She was incarcerated for 16 years. Three years ago, she was detained by ICE and then deported to Cambodia   Pam (pseudonym): [00:40:00] So I'm gonna start it off when the day I find out that, um, I probably get deported in 2000… yeah, 2012. ICE came and see me, and they say, ” Well, we got you on record that, you know, you're on a list that you're gonna get deported when you parole.” So if I have any kind, like American citizen to prove that, you know, I can't parole, and this and that.   I was like, “Okay.” I really didn't pay attention. My mind was more like stuck. On that day, my mind was more like, “Wait, my attorney told me I'm not ever gonna get deported,” and it just, my mind is like wondering off, like, why is this happening now? So other than that, I started doing research. I just signed the paper.   I didn't even hear exactly what they told me because I, my mind's already like blow. So I just signed the paper. Didn't even know what I'm signing, so I just signed the paper like so they can leave me alone. I just [00:41:00] need to process something on my own.   When I finally process, I start doing research and…   But before I start doing research, I call my parent up and told them, “What's gonna happen?” And they, you know, and my parents tell me, “Just tell them you don't have a family over there. There's nobody over there that could support you, take care of you. You've been, uh, here in America all your life. There's nobody.   Nobody. So why they came and… why did someone send it to you, send you over there, and since you already did your time?” So it's some kinda- mixed feeling. It's a lot of mixed feeling as I can see there's a lot of hurt inside my family. I can see what they go through, and then I was like, “Okay, now just too much.”   So after I talk to my parent and then see how they feel about it, and I understand, and I do feel them, too.   And I do understand, and, um, ‘ cause I've never been really separate from my family that long until I got [00:42:00] locked up. So it's harder difficulty than anything. I don't even move away from my mom that far.   I live across the street. So it's hard for me to see that, I'm really, like, can't see my mom ever again. I started doing research for years and years and still, hoping that I could fight and why I'm in prison, but people keep on telling me, “You can't fight your case until you get through, um, the ICE detainer, and that's how you fight your case.”   And it's like, eh, I need to find a… You know, I started doing more research on the law library about ICE and, you know, about deportation, everything about the law. I did all that, but it's nothing that really helped me unless it's something against my life. So and I did more research about, like anything They say the only way you could get away from it is, like, something affects your life, something that danger you. It's like, it mean life or death. [00:43:00] But I even do research on that. They say if they stop the war in Cambodian… So it was hard. It was just a lot. It was just a lot of paperwork that I would have to go through and try to do the research and find out.   So I started talking to more about with my family about that, and then my dad say, “You know, I can see this is really stressing you out, and I can see that you're looking through a lot of stuff that don't help you to get out. But we still have hope that you're gonna come home to us.”   Michelle MiJung Kim:  Every person who shared their story with us talked about the family members and friends who supported them through these traumatic experiences, those who have stood with them in the darkest of times. Those relationships are what keeps people going, and it's no different for the person you're about to hear from, T.   T served his time in prison many years ago. After he got out of prison, he led a [00:44:00] full life. He got married, became a father, and grew in his career as a superintendent of a welding business, including jobs for the US Navy. And then one day, everything changed.   T (pseudonym): You know, I, I'd been reporting, uh, as scheduled, to the, you know, the ICE agent e- every, you know, I start out once a month, once every three months, once every six months, once every year.   And I, I, I've been reporting perfectly how they want. And then one day, you know, I, I came home and I went look at, check my mail and, there's a, a mail from them. So I opened the mail up and it tells me, the mail tells me they're gonna detain me. They give me a date to be there, and they say they're gonna detain me.   You know, I, and my, my heart just sank, you know. When I saw that letter- Mm … I'm like, “Oh my God.” And you know, I, I, it broke me down right there, standing over there by the mailbox. And then I told my wife and, , we [00:45:00] both, sat and, you know, did a little, a little crying.   And it's just like depressed knowing that they can, uh, detain me, that scheduled date that they gave me, yeah, it, it, it was tough. It's like a, a little… I think they gave us like a, a month or something. No, three weeks, half a month, something like that. it, it, it was tough 'cause I, I, me, me and my wife and my two daughter we, you know, we have family.   They, they okay, you know. yeah, I, I've checked in and, uh, they, they, they did detain me and, uh, of course my wife's all crying and, you know, my daughter, my, both my daughters young at that time. They're still young. They don't know what, what happened, you know. They asked my wife, “Hey, where's Dad?”   And you know, my, my wife didn't tell them what happened yet because they didn't, my wife didn't want them to, you know, worry. So my wife just told them, “Oh, you know, uh, your dad went to work. Maybe he'll be gone maybe a month or so.” She just don't want them to feel bad.   But yeah, my wife went through some stuff and trying to figure things out while I was in the detention center. and uh, [00:46:00] yeah, I got interview and got deported. and my wife, she was struggling at that time. She didn't work either because she's the, you know, she stayed home as a housewife, take the kids to school and stuff like that.   Michelle MiJung Kim: T's wife and daughter are now with him in Cambodia. He's currently serving as a staff member at New Light Wellness in Phnom Penh providing mental health and healing services to other people and families who are deported and separated   T (pseudonym): Yes. To me it's very important, to have someone to talk to 'cause when you're deported, uh, you, you already broken. you feel like you're a broken person, and, and sometime you don't know who to talk to because you're at a new, new place.   You don't really know no one, you know? And, uh, it, it, it's heartbreaking you trying to, uh, find someone to talk to. You, you feel like you're alone.   But at New Light, [00:47:00] we provide all that. You need someone to talk to, here. We, we, here you could pick one of our team here to talk to. You can go to the facility that we have over there and just talk to someone and just relax over there and just, you know, we, we have, always have someone there to help, talk about anything you want, to guide to bring closure, that, that's the thing, uh, about our team here.   We wanna make sure we have all that, everything Cause we understand, we understand, uh, being deported need someone to talk to, because that's what I, I did when, uh, the first couple years when I got deported here and I, I was so stressed out, and I don't know who to turn to, where to go.   Luckily, I found New Light, and I'm so glad, and I'm still with them now.   Deportation to me, I feel it is very cruel. It breaks families apart, and then it'll change the life and future of, your children. You know, it, it… Deportation, it, it's just a sad [00:48:00] word, it's just a sad word. It, it's just… It's like pain. It's a lot of pain, that word deportation.   It's a lot of pain. I mean, I, I… It, it's just… To me, it's just a lot of pain. It is just getting ripped off from your family, and affect everyone. It affect, you know, your brother and sister, your cousin, your niece, your nephew. You know, that's how, that's how I, I sees it,   Roger Viet Chung: Yeah, I think it's, um You know, I, I think it's important to, understand that, um, you know, deportation, isn't something that existed, since 1776, right?   Michelle MiJung Kim: That familiar voice is Roger, who you heard from earlier. Here's what he thinks about previously incarcerated people getting deported despite having already served their time.   Roger Viet Chung: And so I think when we kinda think about the logics of a [00:49:00] person who is serving a sentence and is being released by even authorities around in the carceral state and determining that they're not a threat to society, that they're no longer harmful to society, that they've done their rehabilitation in order to continue to contribute to, right, the nation and to their families and their communities, I think we have a very contradictory message where, you know, you actually have, a, a carceral apparatus naming a person as no longer a harm to society, but then, right, being deported.   And so when we think about these stories and, you know, I remember talking to a life term prisoner who has children who were born in the United States. And, he's going up to the parole board, and he has, an ICE hold. He has, you know, a mandatory deportation because of his conviction. He's asking the questions to himself, you know, “What do I do? do I fight to be released from prison? If that's the case, I might get taken to ICE custody right away and, [00:50:00] get my travel documents prepared to be deported. Or do I stay in prison so that my family can continue to see me in the United States, right?   And maybe, I don't do the types of things that are gonna win me my freedom in front of a parole board.” And I think those are the types of contradictions in the stories that I think illuminate the contradictions and, right, like, the problems with the way that we approach, deportation today.   There's, the idea of deportation, we often, I think because it's related to law, oftentimes, right, you know, our communities, see that as an objective or neutral phenomenon, that's always been that way. And so I think, when we try to get folks to kinda understand the ways that deportation and, you know, immigration policy, has been shaped, one of the things that I'll ask students, I remember being inside San Quentin, and I, I ask this of my Laney students all the time, you know, I ask them, “When was Immigration and Customs Enforcement founded?”, “What year was like the birth of what we understand now as ICE?” And, [00:51:00] students will guess, they'll guess, they'll guess, and maybe they'll look it up online, and they'll say, ” Oh, Roger, it's 2001.” Then I'll ask people, “Who's older, you or ICE?”   And most of the time, the people that I ask are older than ICE. And so I think one of the ways that we kind of approach this is, you know, by understanding that what's happening now is a, a very new and contemporary phenomenon immigration in its most brutal form, right? Or deportation in its most brutal form.   And I ask people, right, you know, “What was ICE called before it was called ICE?” There was an, a, an organization that existed before. And, you know, people will struggle a little bit, and then, you know, I'll say the initials, uh, INS. And then people will say, “What does that stand for?” INS stands for, uh, Immigration Naturalization Services.   And so you have this really significant institutional difference, just in the name itself around how a migrant is being treated and perceived. Right? On the one hand, right, you have enforcement through [00:52:00] ICE. But for the most part, right, immigration policy in the United States was not ICE. It was Naturalization Services, right?   It was about welcoming people to come to the United States, contribute, be taxpayers, right? And, become citizens, become naturalized. And so I think that's one of the ways that we begin thinking about how to deconstruct the idea that deportation is just a matter of law, it's a neutral idea, and that it's always existed in the form that it has.   And, you know, we know that the law that really is driving Asian American deportation or a- and other immigrant-based deportation today is a law that was designed in 1996. And so- The way that we see, right, immigration today is really kind of like a parcel, a very small piece of immigration history and deportation history for that matter in the United States.   And I think that's one way that I think helps people understand that you know, what we're seeing now is, a phenomenon that doesn't have to be what it is.   I'm lucky enough to be able to be [00:53:00] part of a post-secondary system that is, you know, one of the largest in the world and one of the most welcoming in the world.   I feel like part of my passion or my drive to keep going is I feel like there are some things that are still very much unexplored around this concept of re-entry. When I was in juvenile hall a couple of years ago, I met a young person who told me that he didn't have a good relationship with his dad.   His dad wasn't in his life. His dad has been in and out of prison and learned mostly about his dad through his sister, but began reconnecting with him a little bit. this young person had, a pretty significant conviction inside the juvenile hall which, like I mentioned earlier, which had it happened 10, 15 years ago, he would be in the California Youth Authority.   And, you know, he was telling me about his dad and, you know, there were so many things that felt like I knew him. He told me the job that his dad had, which was a very unique job [00:54:00] that is not very common. And I wrote who I thought his dad was on a piece of paper and I showed it to him and he said, “Yes, that's my dad.”   And so his dad, came to Laney College, um, joined the machining program after years in prison and got you know, a living wage job, in the steel industry, was able to buy a home and he was able to put his daughter through graduate school. but he never mentioned a son to me. And I left the hall that day and, I called him walking to my car and I said, “Hey, like, um, I think I met your son.   I didn't know you had one.” And he said, “Yeah, that's still a shameful part of my life that I'm, still trying to figure out.” And so I, I think that there's something that we're missing still. I think, you know, when in San Quentin we talked about, intergenerational trauma and the trauma that you can inherit from your parents and your parents' parents, and I think there's something here where, you know, we, we can engage both generations at [00:55:00] once to really kind of figure out some of this healing.   I feel like there's still something that, we as a team as a family and as a community are on the verge of understanding a little bit better and breaking those cycles.   Michelle MiJung Kim: I can't stop thinking about what T said about the word deportation. It's cruel. It's a painful word. It's a sad word that rips you off from your family. Many of our listeners are here because you believe a different world is possible, one that replaces isolation with kinship, trauma with repair, and loss with transformation.   You want a future full of families together and safe. That's the kind of future we at My Family want, too. Each story we share is not only a reminder about the violent systems that harm so many communities, but it's also a reminder of how much each of us is [00:56:00] needed in this fight for a more just and liberatory future.   There is so much pain and trauma in each person's story, there's also so much strength, resilience, and a steadfast belief in community and hope. I'm taking a deep breath as I reflect on these stories, and I invite you to do the same.   And if you're impacted by mass deportation and detention, there are organizations and advocates who can help you, from mental health and wellness to legal help and family support. In Northern California, where we are based, we encourage you to reach out to the Asian Prisoner Support Committee, the Center for Empowering Refugees and Immigrants, and New Light Wellness.   You'll [00:57:00] find links to these organizations in the show notes at kpfa.org/programs/APEX-express. The music in today's program is by Cambodian Australian singer and songwriter Satiya. We'll include links to his songs in the show notes, too.   We hope you'll join us for episodes two and three of My Family, where we'll deep dive into what happens when our family and neighbors are detained, and what happens when they are forced to move to a country they've never known. Thank you for joining, and we'll see you next time on My Family.   I'm your host, Michelle Mijung Kim, and this podcast is brought to you by APEX Express and the Asian Prisoner Support Committee. APEX Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam.   Have a great night.   [00:58:00]    The post APEX Express – 8.20.26 – My Family Ep. 1 appeared first on KPFA.

TEATIME WITH MISS LIZ SERVES: Jacob “Jake”August 4th | 7 PM EST Title:Beyond the Cell Doors: Leadership, Trauma & the Human Side of Justice Tagline:When you've witnessed the darkest chapters of humanity, you discover the extraordinary strength it takes to choose compassion over judgment. Description: On August 4th at 7 PM EST, Teatime with Miss Liz welcomes Jacob “Jake”, a retired Corrections Sergeant, actor, podcast host, and advocate for first responders, military personnel, and those living with PTSD. Jake dedicated 28 years to serving at the historic San Quentin State Prison, including many years working on Death Row, where he witnessed both the darkest and most inspiring sides of human nature. His career demanded resilience, courage, leadership, and the ability to make life-changing decisions under extraordinary pressure. After retiring as a Sergeant in 2022, Jake embraced another lifelong passion—acting. Drawing from his real-life experiences, he brings unmatched authenticity to every role, portraying complex characters who exist between justice and humanity. Today, Jake uses his voice to advocate for mental health awareness, PTSD recovery, and supporting those who dedicate their lives to protecting others. Join Miss Liz for a powerful conversation about law enforcement, trauma, healing, leadership, storytelling, and discovering purpose after service. Teatime Introduction: Welcome everyone to Teatime with Miss Liz, where every story reminds us that behind every profession is a human being with experiences that shape their life forever. Tonight, we welcome Jacob “Jake.” For twenty-eight years, Jake served inside one of America's most recognized correctional institutions—San Quentin State Prison. Much of that time was spent working on Death Row, where he witnessed humanity at both its most difficult and its most remarkable. After retiring as a Corrections Sergeant, Jake chose a new path as an actor and podcast host, using the lessons learned throughout his career to bring authenticity to the screen while advocating for mental health, PTSD awareness, first responders, and military personnel. His journey reminds us that strength is not simply surviving difficult experiences—it's finding purpose beyond them. Jake, welcome to Teatime with Miss Liz. We are honoured to have you at the table. Closing: Today's conversation reminds us that every uniform represents a person carrying experiences the world may never fully understand. Jake's willingness to openly discuss leadership, trauma, service, and healing creates space for meaningful conversations surrounding mental health, first responders, and the realities faced by those working within the justice system. Thank you, Jake, for your years of service, your honesty, and for continuing to advocate for those who dedicate their lives to protecting others while reminding us that healing deserves the same courage as service. Jacob “Jake” is a retired Corrections Sergeant, actor, podcast host, and advocate for PTSD awareness, first responders, and military personnel. After serving twenty-eight years at San Quentin State Prison, including many years on Death Row, he now uses storytelling and acting to inspire conversations about resilience, leadership, and healing. Miss Liz Reflection: Those who protect others often carry invisible stories of their own. True strength is found not only in serving others—but also in allowing yourself to heal.”— Miss Liz #TeatimeWithMissLiz#JacobJake#FirstResponderAwareness#PTSDAwareness#LeadershipThroughServicehttps://actorcv.me/jac

On this episode of the Woodard Report podcast, Joe speaks with Jessica McKellar about her journey from studying computer science at MIT and building successful software startups to founding Pilot, a bookkeeping and accounting technology company. Jessica shares how Pilot evolved from solving the financial back-office challenges faced by entrepreneurs into a platform and explains how automation, AI, and value-based pricing are reshaping the economics of accounting firms. She also introduces Meridian, Pilot's new platform that enables autonomous bookkeeping, month-end close processes, and AI-assisted accounting workflows designed to help firms scale while improving both client and employee experiences. About Jessica McKellar Jessica McKellar is the co-founder and CEO of Pilot. She started the company with a simple conviction: small business owners shouldn't have to be their own bookkeeper, accountant, and financial advisor all at once. Today, Pilot serves more than 3,500 businesses, from neighborhood restaurants and retail shops to growing service businesses, helping owners get books off their plates so they can focus on what actually grows their company. Before Pilot, Jessica founded two other companies that were acquired by Oracle and Dropbox. She holds 3 degrees from MIT. Jessica also teaches programming at San Quentin State Prison and advocates for hiring formerly incarcerated people. She believes that excluding talented workers based on their records doesn't make business sense, and that second chances belong in the workplace too.  Learn more about Meridian from Pilot Connect with Jessica on LinkedIn Thank you to our show sponsor, Canopy! Unclunk your firm with Canopy, the fully integrated practice management that helps accountants build the firm they always wanted. The suite includes client and document management, workflow, time and billing, engagements and proposals, and more. Check out GetCanopy.com. Learn more about the show and our sponsors at Woodard.com/podcast.

The simple practice and surprising benefits of yoga nidra, a guided lying-down meditation. Plus: parts work, core beliefs, and the blind spot effect. This episode originally aired in December 2022.  Kelly Boys is a mindfulness trainer and coach. She has helped design and deliver mindfulness and resilience programs for the UN, Google, and San Quentin State Prison. She is also the author of The Blind Spot Effect: How to Stop Missing What's Right in Front of You.  Today we're going to talk specifically about a type of meditation that Kelly teaches called Yoga Nidra, which has been shown to help you sleep, improve your working memory, and decrease cravings.  In this episode we talk about: The difference between Yoga Nidra and mindfulness meditation, and how Kelly seeks to combine them The value of being able to both observe and high-five your demons  Working with our "core beliefs" about ourselves and the world The calming power of drawing your attention to the back side of your body throughout the day Working with "opposites" as a way to get unstuck in difficult moments What Kelly means by the blind spot effect Setting intentions Join Dan and Emmy Award-winning journalist Allison Gilbert at 92NY on May 17th for a live conversation about how mindfulness can deepen connection and combat loneliness, available in person and via streaming. Register here. Join Dan, Sebene Selassie, and Jeff Warren for Meditation Party, a 3-day immersive retreat at the Omega Institute in Rhinebeck, NY, October 16–18. Grab your in-person spot here, or sign up to livestream here!  Get the 10% with Dan Harris app here Sign up for Dan's free newsletter here Follow Dan on social: Instagram, TikTok Subscribe to our YouTube Channel Additional Resources:  To advertise on the show, contact sales@advertisecast.com or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight on APEX Express Host Miko Lee speaks with Restorative Justice Educator and Author Tatiana Chaterji about her work on the power of tenderness. Tune in!   Tatiana Chaterji's website Show Transcript [00:00:00] Opening Music: Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   [00:00:44] Miko Lee: Good evening. I'm your host Miko Lee, and tonight we are speaking with Tatiana Chaterji about Restorative Justice. Restorative justice is a movement and a set of practices that stands as an alternative to our current punitive justice system. It focuses on people and repairing harm by engaging all the impacted folks working together to repair that harm. RJ is built off of ancient indigenous practices from cultures around the globe, including Native American, African, first Nation, Canadian, and many others. So join us with Tatiana Chaterji.    [00:01:23] Tati, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    [00:01:28] Tatiana Chaterji: Thank you for the question, Miko. The first thing that comes to mind, my people are the people we're, we're, we're coming up on the cusp of a possible teacher strike, and I'm thinking about workers and the labor, movement and comrades in my life from doing, work as a classified school worker for about a decade.   [00:01:49] Then my people are also from my homelands. The two that I feel very close to me are in Finland, from my mom's side, and then in Bengal, both India, west Bengal, and Bangladesh. And my people are also those who are facing facing the worst moments of their life, either from causing harm or experiencing harm as a survivor of violence.   [00:02:11] I think about this a lot and I think about also the smaller conflicts and tensions and issues that bubble up all the time. So my people are those that are not afraid to make it better, you know, to make it right. And I carry, oh gosh, what legacy do I. I wanna say first kind of the legacy of the Oakland RJ movement that really nurtured me and the youth that I've encountered in schools and in detention on the streets in the community. [00:02:41] Youth who are young adults and becoming bigger, older adults and, and, and also elders. To me. So sort of that's whose legacy I carry in shaping the. Society that we all deserve.    [00:02:55] Miko Lee: Thank you for answering with such a rich, well thought out response that's very expansive and worldly. I appreciate that. Can you share what brought you to this work personally?   [00:03:07] Tatiana Chaterji: Sure. As a young activist involved in Insight Women of Color against Violence and aware of the work of Critical Resistance, and I had a pretty clear politics of abolition, but I didn't. Really think that it impacted me as personally as it did when I was in my early twenties and I suffered a brain injury from a vehicular assault, a hit and run that may have been gang affiliated or, a case of mistaken identity. My recovery is, is, is complicated. My journey through various kinds of disabilities has shaped me. But I think the way that I was treated by the police and by the justice quote unquote justice system, which I now call the criminal legal system, it because there was no justice.   [00:03:52] I sort of don't believe that justice is served in the ways that survivors need. yeah, I really, I got very close to the heart of what an RJ process can do and what RJ really is. I got introduced to Sonya Shah and the work of Suha bga and I was able to do a surrogate victim offender dialogue and then later to facilitate these processes where people are kind of meeting at the, at the hardest point of their lives and connecting across immense suffering and layers of systemic and interpersonal internalized oppression.   [00:04:26] Just so much stuff and what happens when you can cross over into a shared humanity and recognition. It's just, it's just so profound and and from that space of healing and, and, and compassion, I've been able to think about. Other ways that RJ can look and have sort of been an advan, what is it evangelical for it?   [00:04:51] You know, I think that because we don't see these options, I, I, because I knew people, I was able to connect in this way and I would just shout out David uim, who's the one who told me that even if I didn't know the person who harmed me, that this was possible. People so often give up, they're just like, well, I have to feel this way.   [00:05:10] I have to just deal with it. Swallow the injustice and the lack of recognition. Just sort of keep going. Grit your teeth. I think we don't have enough knowledge of what's possible and so we harden ourselves My name is Tatiana Chaterji. I'll be reading my flash essay split. Before I didn't know what a traumatic brain injury was. My tongue had not curled the letters TBI together shaping the sound of nightmare. I had not heard the clipping of staples from a scalp fused after it was split to release pressure.   [00:05:46] They said, removing the right cranial bone flap, not conceived of the skull as giving pressure, a living organism of its own, a piece of its stored in a freezer for months after being removed in the dead of night. Attempted murder, vehicular assault under a blanket of fog. This city, these hidden stars.   [00:06:07] Never concerned myself with science or medicine or the mechanics of survival, the filaments of me unbreaking encased as they were in a thick clay from where I stood young and forceful, standing or walking or sitting, because I wanted to willful, bold, joy, stubborn, had not needed to wait for the all clear discharge orders that released me to a world of indifference.   [00:06:33] Before I didn't know life without its sense. Its tastes that the olfactory nerve stretches behind the eyes, vulnerable to bruising or severing from an impact to the head that you won't know until you know an extended game of dice that ultimately rolled no permanent damage. You will smell again, but with loss.   [00:06:52] Unfamiliar associating Jasmine for coffee, revulsion to orange comfort and cinnamon. Before I had not been the target of any physical or lasting harm. Had not thought that victim or survivor would ever describe me. Had not organized a vigil for rape survivors as I did while unconscious dreaming, waking up to pelvic bruises, believing I was one of them.   [00:07:19] The brain injury bisected my life until I realized it was one in a string of paper cuts that stop hurting eventually, that there will be other moments that change me, that there are many ways to slice a life when I pull her to my chest. A sticky, slimy worm, six pounds, four ounces, eyes closed, mulling to find her place on my chest for the first time.   [00:07:44] My chin against the wet mess of hair. When he carries me over the threshold into our suite at the Wise Owl Hotel in South Colta, garlands of sweet Jasmine adorn my hair and my henna painted arms drip with gold. When the drama therapist asks the group to simulate the attack rushing towards me so I can do what I wished I had done, run away.   [00:08:11] It returns my power and I own what's mine Fingertips. Throbbing with the life they can grasp. Sirens through the dark machines. Beeping into a week of unconsciousness, awakening to wonder and madness. One toe at suicide's brink, recovering in this outpatient patient treatment program for depression and anxiety.   [00:08:31] All of it here. The breath and meat and sky. When I walked through the gates of San Quentin State Prison for the first time, shuttering at the cold, heavy clank permanence at my back. The man in front of me breathes nervously in his starched blue uniform, gently meeting my eyes to say, I've never met a real victim before.   [00:08:53] Thank you for coming. He is, of course, a crime victim, but also an offender, and there isn't room to be both in this place. I am here for the penultimate session of Victim Offender Education and Dialogue where the men have met for over a year now, each week to learn empathy and build rigorous self-reflection muscles to take accountability.   [00:09:18] They are ready to present their crime impact statements and to listen to a panel of survivors. None of us directly harmed or were harmed by each other. We are all surrogates. This then is the greatest innocence, the widest Gulf I've crossed before, sitting with men who have killed, who have touched this threshold, this fever wound of life and God and pain.   [00:09:44] My eyes were full of dew. I was blind to the logics of violence, the way the toxins seep under and you merge with its poison that you become dehumanized. Brutal. A mentality of war. The hurt echoing at a different pitch. Copper pebbles in an empty cave. Before I sat alone in confusion, untangling the threads of my trauma with what I knew from a peaceful life of privilege.   [00:10:12] In that first circle at San Quentin and every subsequent circle, I uncloak this ache, hear from men who explain the numbness, danger in every corner under the shadow of each day. I let them hold my story, share its load. Listen to theirs, my witness body lifting off bits of the weight they carry. I welcome insights previously unimaginable.   [00:10:39] Receive apologies I didn't know I needed. It's as if the lights switch on all at once, a brightness. The dialogue melts the isolation of my suffering. Its icy blanket of shame, allowing me to see what had been there all along, not monster. A human did this to me, broken alone, and suddenly I have permission to heal for 10 days.   [00:11:07] Baby birds remain in the nest. Their mother has built. I spent 10 days in a coma from within the protective circle. My family had drawn around me for the entirety of my two plus decades on earth. Infant wind, bone creature before flight 24 years collapsed to 10 days in the coma nest so I could bear free the weight of the universe.   [00:11:33] Soaring my mind at ease. A fresh page appears the dotted line of life's flashpoints waiting to blink on forward cuts and selves.   [00:11:46] Miko Lee: I just finished your new book. Wow.    [00:11:48] Tatiana Chaterji: Oh you did?   [00:11:48] Miko Lee: Yes I did.    [00:11:49] Tatiana Chaterji: Yay!   [00:11:50] Miko Lee: Yes I did. Everyday Restorative justice, moving from crisis Response to positive school culture. Big title, weighty title. It's so much, it's so rich, it's so beautiful. It has so many different elements for, um, for a classroom teacher, an educator, a community organizer. And it has not just like lesson plans, but amazing quotes and rubrics.   [00:12:15] Even rubrics. 'cause you could tell your classroom teacher with real experiences, which is like the land I live in. Stories and Spanish translations. So tell us how this amazing book, what, I mean you've been doing this work for years, but what inspired you to collect this into book form?    [00:12:33] Tatiana Chaterji: Oh, thank you Miko for reading it. That is the biggest gift ever. I want to shout out Heather Manchester Anita Vva and Evelyn Aquino. They wrote a book a few years ago on inter international Intergenerational Restorative Justice and really youth and adult partnership. And in that book, they featured the work that I had been doing at Fremont here in East Oakland.   [00:12:57] And I think that was the first time when I was like, wait, maybe we are really doing something special that deserves to be in a book. You know, like, what is this secret sauce? Or what is the, what is the combination? Things that we're doing that's really working that we want to share out with the world.   [00:13:14] And and so, yeah, so fast forward a little bit of time. There's, I, I've actually now left the district. I've had more time to reflect on what that time was and what it was we were doing. And I had this invitation with Teachers College Press to, uh, to put it forth and really make it legible for classroom teachers who might not have always felt like they were invited into this work for a variety of reasons.   [00:13:41] Miko Lee: Well, one, I think that's fascinating that it took somebody else writing about your work for you to say, Ooh, look at this. I think that's fascinating. Uh, more to that later, but I'm wondering I think many classroom teachers already do this whole, oh, let's come up with our rules for the classroom. It's like respect.   [00:13:58] I mean, it's a lot of the principles around restorative justice, but actually implementing a whole system feels. Overwhelming or like you were just saying, they don't have access to it, so how does this book give them access?    [00:14:14] Tatiana Chaterji: Uh, well, and I, I wanna clarify from the top that I'm actually, I am, I have served in the role of a classroom teacher, but that's not my training or background. And that I've, I've actually seen this schism or this kind of divisiveness between people who are in youth organizing, where I've, that's my background. Youth organ organizing, youth leadership development, sort of student and youth services. Vis-a-vis classroom educators. And I was straddling both of these roles as a classified employee doing restorative justice alongside case managers, the school security officers who are now called culture keepers in Oakland Unified, and and administrators as well.   [00:14:56] And I was partnering with teachers to figure out classroom systems. I ended up co-teaching and then solo teaching a class within the Mandela academy for Law and Public Service. That continued until when that school, when that mini school closed down. But I learned so much from classroom teachers. The educators that I was working with are amazing and they are the original. RJ people, I would say, but they, they are not positioned that way and they aren't often recognized or given the time and space to do circle and to do that culture building in their classrooms because they have any number of deliverables and test you know, requirements that they are responsible for.   [00:15:37] And so what I really saw was a kind of a sidelining of their work into the teaching and then the culture work happening in other pockets and primarily held by people who are not in front of the kids day after day dealing with. Management and communication and all the things that happen when you're bell to bell responsible for so many different combinations of kids and communicating with their parents and making sure everything gets synced up. So I think I really wanted to honor their labor and and open the door. And, and, and I'm sure others have done it as well, but I just felt it wasn't open enough. It wasn't a, a sort of a strong enough like, here, you already do this. Why? What if you could take it a step further or here are some things that are legible for the systems and the, the tasks that you are responsible for, that you have to be responsible for. Let me create it in your, in your language. And really with great humility from my own position is, has not having the same training.    [00:16:41] Miko Lee: Thank you for pointing that out. And those titles of, you know, the classroom educator, the community organizers, the youth development person, people often like separate them, but really it's about the creating the best culture for the students is what we're talking about.   [00:16:56] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah. We should be on the same page.    [00:16:58] Miko Lee: Yeah.    [00:16:58] Tatiana Chaterji: And I think very often we are pit against each other and there's sort of, you know, being in this violent, extractive society that that's sort of what happens. But it shouldn't happen, in fact. Right. And we should be more hand in hand working together when there's been this smooth handoff between different roles on a campus. That's when it's just the best. And I want to, I hope to see that more.    [00:17:19] Miko Lee: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about the story behind the, forward to the book? You write in a dedication to a young woman, and can you share a little bit about that story?    [00:17:30] Tatiana Chaterji: Oh gosh. Shamara Young her memory lives within me and with so many people in the Fremont community in Oakland. She was a student leader who was in the very first iteration of this RJ class, this restorative justice class that I taught for ninth graders, which really is the inspiration for this book. And she was killed shortly after we had just come back from distance learning from the pandemic, and it really shocked our, our entire community, an incident of road rage, and just the excess of the excess availability of weapons, you know, and, and firearms.   [00:18:07] So just wanted to honor her legacy, honor honor other students and young people who've been stolen from us, from violence here at home, and also in any number of imperial projects that, that. US government is responsible for just really seeing the interconnection between people's struggle and the loss of life is tragic all the time. And the loss of a student is a particular pain that I just, I wanted to name because it is, it is so tender and other educators, youth organizers, parents, people who've known young ones to, to die in that way. It's just something, a wound that stays and definitely motivates me to, to do this work.   [00:18:49] My name is Tatiana Chaterji. I'll be reading my Vielle, a poem called Losing Shamara. When he tells me she's gone, the air leaves my lungs losing shamara. The adults are loud in their grief. Students' eyes down to forget their own stolen ones. Circles the forced ceremony of blood on false tongues, homage to her memory, her story without relief.   [00:19:15] When he tells me she's gone, the air leaves my lungs. There's enough rage in the streets, enough guns, too many per person drowning dreams. All the beef students' eyes down to forget their own stolen ones. We fend for ourselves, feeding off crumbs, unmet needs of volcano. The lava, a sharp reef. When he tells me she's gone, the air leaves my lungs. [00:19:41] Healing hearts. Now the school spins as she hums her voice and my mind a faint shaking leaf when he tells me she's gone, the air leaves my lungs losing shamara. The adults are loud in their grief.   [00:19:57] Miko Lee: Well, thank you so much for grounding the book in that story, because I think there's something about talking about doing that work, but keeping in mind a real person and the impacts of our violent society and what's going on, but also how we keep moving on. So I, and    [00:20:13] Tatiana Chaterji: to say that, you know, Shaara really embraced this. She already, like so many of us and so many young people, she knew how to communicate through difficult situations, through drama and the gossip and what people are posting. And I saw that clarity and that maturity in her and wanted to just instill this book with that wisdom that, that young people often know how, already how to navigate these complex and oppressive systems. And that if we can offer a spotlight to them or something that's substantive and really honors that intelligence, they're, we, we could learn a lot.   [00:20:49] Miko Lee: Speaking of drama and learning a lot. I know that you have a background in theater and theater of the oppressed, and I'm wondering how you bring that work into your RJ work.   [00:21:00] Tatiana Chaterji: Oh, well that's a big passion of mine. I have not done it as much in the classroom space as I might have liked. But it's it when, when there is the invitation or the, the, the container to really go deep and create stories. Using theatrical forms and, and our bodies, this, this magic of image theater, it can be so powerful.   [00:21:22] The bulk of my work in that area has been inside of prison and doing programming in that highly violent system where there is generative, juicy, beautiful art to be made. And I just shout out all of the incarcerated artists that I've worked with who helped to shape those spaces and do performance in the prison where, where there was kind of like a witnessing and a participation across the audience and the performers who are on stage. That is that that gives me a lot of just light and hope and yeah. Good stuff.    [00:22:02] Miko Lee: I wonder if you could share a bit for folks that are not as familiar with rj uh, restorative justice work, and particularly at school sites, if you could share about the carpet of community building, what is that all about?   [00:22:15] Tatiana Chaterji: Oh yeah. Well, in the book I talk about the standard model of three tiers of restorative justice using kind of a triangle diagram where the, the bottom third, it's not even quite a third, it's the biggest chunk of the triangle, but that bottom layer is tier one. And this is not just in restorative justice, a lot of people will be familiar with this, where tier one is kind of universal. It's supposed to be for everybody. It is supposed to work for everyone, kind of the way that you shape the culture and the conditions of a learning environment.   [00:22:48] Tier two is when things go wrong or rather. People might need more support, more individualized attention in an RJ context, that's often if there's conflict or a pattern of, uh, behavior that is harmful. And then tier three is at the very top where it's the fewest people. But the idea that maybe somebody needs to be removed in a typical school that would be through.   [00:23:15] Expulsion or suspension or even juvenile detention and that they are in a restorative justice framework, they are welcomed back with intention and clarity on what that means. Doing something that's called a cosa, a circle of support and accountability that looks at the ways that a young person can succeed and holds them to account with a lot of love and care.   [00:23:39] So that triangle is great. Kind of, but it also could be Reconceptualized as a carpet of just interconnecting reasons for meeting in Circle. And I really wanna credit one of my mentors and friends, Kamoa Johnson, who helped me to think about this as a sort of, there's so many reasons to get, come together and circle that none of them should be prioritized more than the other. Or rather that every single thing should be grounded in the strength of the community and building relationships. So if I'm meeting with someone because they did something. Wrong, quote unquote, you know, that's also an opportunity for relationship. And there should be, uh, a piece of us getting to know each other as human.   [00:24:23] That is part of that as well. And yeah, so I think like just thinking about the carpet you can think about the different kinds of circles that people practice. That is all happening as community. That community building has to happen first and alongside all of these other interventions. So it's almost like the two top layers of the triangle would actually be situated in the bottom triangle or the bottom little chunk. And that bottom chunk would actually be a circle    [00:24:50] Miko Lee: or just reconfiguring the whole idea of a triangle.   [00:24:54] Tatiana Chaterji: Right, exactly. Yeah.    [00:24:55] Miko Lee: Yeah. So that we are all on one level space working in collective, uh, communication.    [00:25:02] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah, and I think I might've explained it in sort of a confusing way. You'd have to really look at the book to see the, the reconceptualization, but I wanna emphasize that The reason that this framework and this redesign is so crucial is because people jump into rj, they jump into a circle and they don't do the groundwork to prepare everyone, including themselves to be there. But in a school environment, there's any number of toxic elements that students are absorbing, that teachers are absorbing, that we're all kind of just surviving with, you know, we're hungry, we're tired, we're overstimulated, the lights are too bright. We didn't get enough sleep. There's distractions on our cell phones.   [00:25:44] There's so many reasons that prevent us from sitting with each other and listening and being willing to learn from what another person might say or what their experience might be. And so if we can just go. Backwards and start with authentic connection and community building and skilling people up on how to listen. Then we'll be more successful. Any number of people who have tried to do a circle and it fails, and I count myself in that group as well. It's not. All your fault. In fact, it might not be your fault at all. There's so many reasons why a circle will flop, and I think the assumption that I make is that people are not going to bear their souls to me or be vulnerable to me right off the bat.   [00:26:32] And maybe they won't really ever. But that there are steps that can be taken to soften the hostility, the inherent hostility or harshness that is in our society, and to kind of slowly work towards a, just a, like a, a warmth. A warmth where people feel like it's not dangerous to talk about the icky stuff and the uncomfortable stuff, and that we have to do it very slowly and in a container where students and really anyone can relearn the part of ourselves that we have to strip away when we grow up.   [00:27:11] Miko Lee: So I feel like you're talking about multiple things. One is creating a safe environment for the young people to be able to speak what's on their heart, what's on their mind, and, and to recognize that everybody's coming from such a different space. Even in one school. Even in one classroom. It reminds me of that theater game the moment before. Like you never know what happened to that person the moment before they came to that circle.    [00:27:34] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah.    [00:27:34] Miko Lee: And so it's just to be very conscious of that, that, uh. All of the environment that they're coming from.    [00:27:41] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah. Conscious of it and accepting of it, but also not accepting that that's it. Like if someone is showing up and they're on their phone or they're kind of listening in a superficial way, they give a a cheap answer to a question that that's not all they're capable of. And I think we know that and educators would know that, but they might not have the tools to allow the student to go deeper or to, or even the time in their day in the semester to allow that growth to happen. And so I spotlight this experiment that we did at Fremont, which was 12 weeks long, and it rotated three times.   [00:28:18] It was an intro to the Media Academy, introduction to that. Architecture academy, and then it was a restorative justice class. And in those 12 weeks from the start to the finish, I noticed an incredible change in the student's ability to connect with each other, to feel empowered, to take, uh, sort of shape what they understand and shape what they care about and what they might wanna advocate for. And it was an intensive laboratory. I was super strict about phones. You know, I was, it was like, that was the place where you had to listen, learn how to listen, which was, in fact, the, the, my biggest, deliverable for them was that they should know how to listen and that they, of course, knew how, but this was a way to practice it further.   [00:29:02] Miko Lee: Can you name a few other things in that 12 week session that were able to foment this, uh, community?    [00:29:10] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah, I think because it was a non-academic space, I was really able to prioritize how people are listening and how they are, uh, speaking or communicating. So everybody has a different comfort level with speaking out loud. And being in circle can feel extremely intimidating if you're not someone who likes to talk in front of people or likes to have the spotlight on you. So through the course of the class, there were, there were smaller activities to practice, people's public speaking, and even reflecting and then articulating what it is that you wanna say and practicing what does it mean to divulge something but not too much that you feel exposed.   [00:29:50] That skill, I think, is something that adults often take for granted, that we know how to evaluate a situation and shape our story correctly. And not all adults either, but it's something that for young people that is some that, that they can grow into that. Understand what they might wanna share that would be meaningful without making them feel too naked in front of their peers. So it's sort of like all of these dimensions of what are the pressures that they're feeling among this group of people? What feels comfortable to share? And when we got, when we broke into the more vulnerable and tender territory, it was pretty incredible to see and, and witness the shift in energy and how letting people's guards down could happen, like in a responsible way. I, in no way, am advocating for having students and encouraging students to open up about their trauma and then be let loose into the, to the world. You know, there are so many dangerous things that, that people are dealing with and having to say,    [00:30:53] Miko Lee: especially our social media world.    [00:30:56] Tatiana Chaterji: Right, absolutely. That's a whole other terrain. But to say that there is perhaps more possible than what we accept. So, so we kind of, I think we give up on like, well, you know, people are gonna shut down. They already are shut down and they're guarded, and boom, that's it. Let's just roll with it. Let me give them as many worksheets as possible, but I'm not gonna ask them to talk out loud because that's too much and    [00:31:23] Miko Lee: watch a bunch of movies.    [00:31:25] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah. Well, I mean, teachers would tell me that they were so grateful that this space was being held because of what I think they understood as like a, a naturally therapeutic environment. And then of course, it's crazy because it wasn't always great. Sometimes it, you know, it didn't, I couldn't contain the space as well as I wanted to, but then students would say that I was the only teacher that would. Require them to speak out loud. Um, and so, and I didn't do    [00:31:48] Miko Lee: what of the whole day? That was the only class?   [00:31:51] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty easy for some of them, you know, some of them and not all of them, but like, it's, it's remarkable to, to understand that education can happen that way. And increasingly with remote learning and with everything being sort of through this technological interface, it is possible to pretty much not communicate out loud. So then what does that mean? We are losing so much of what we're capable of.    [00:32:13] Miko Lee: Yeah. It's not giving voice to students at all. Literally.    [00:32:16] Tatiana Chaterji: Well, right. Yeah. Yeah.    [00:32:19] Miko Lee: I mean, you make me think of a couple things. One, when you talk about the public speaking, clearly that's where your theater training comes in, not just naturally to do the public speaking, but then I also, when you're talking about consent and what you're sharing and how much you're sharing of yourself, 'cause that can be very vulnerable for young folks, especially folks that are survivors. And I'm thinking about Dr. Danielle Allen from Harvard and her work around the youth participatory politics. Are you familiar with her stuff?    [00:32:47] Tatiana Chaterji: No,    [00:32:47] Miko Lee: she's amazing she, she has this whole theory about how youth should share, and one of her components is sharing, um, digitally what they wanna share about who they are in the world. But I was just thinking about these as you're speaking about how you're getting them to talk about who they are. And I'm wondering if you could share a little bit more about youth leadership and how that's part of the development of the program, how important that is.    [00:33:15] Tatiana Chaterji: Absolutely. Um, I have a quote from one of my favorite RJ comrades to BD Gibson where he says that anything a young person can do, they should do that. We should hand it over, you know allow for more scaffolded, kind of shared responsibility. When I think about from the beginning of a school year to the end, that, that there's kind of a, the teacher is, and the, or the youth worker, whoever's holding the space, is doing a lot of the work to, to teach the skills, to transfer, the skills, to mentor and empower or skill up the young people. And that through the course of the year, by the end of it, that the young people are taking it on, shaping it, and they're doing so. In collaboration with the adults. And that it is not so much just youth adult partnership, but that there's a, a sense of intergenerational ness even among young people.   [00:34:08] There might be two people on the same grade level, one of whom has been in a youth leadership program and already kind of feels confident about doing any number of things. And I and a and their peer who could learn from that. Or an upper class person and a younger class person or a recent graduate. Many of the teachers and staff at Fremont were actually alumni of the school, which was really powerful for students to see someone who had gone through those same hallways. I think that's all a, a, a piece of it.   [00:34:38] The other thing about youth leadership is that the model of restorative justice in schools that I'm grounded in and that I would say many of my people in Oakland are grounded in is peer leadership. So when students are leading circles, and not just leading circles, but also kind of having their ears to the ground and listening to what students are worried about, if there are social and political phenomena that are affecting students and staff, how, how can they shape the questions or the activities that might need to happen? And, um,    [00:35:12] Miko Lee: for sure they know what's happening way more than any teacher does.    [00:35:16] Tatiana Chaterji: Right. I mean, often or in a different way.    [00:35:18] Miko Lee: Mm-hmm.    [00:35:18] Tatiana Chaterji: And so to be able to invite their voice in a, in a, in a meaningful container that isn't tokenizing it, that isn't sort of celebrating them just for being young or oppressed. I mean, I see that a lot in, in, in the work of youth leadership even. But to sort of meaningfully integrate them, which also requires training them in various, skills. And that partnership and that kind of coming together and doing things as a community can be transformative for everyone involved. I mean, for the staff that I've worked with, not just at Fremont, but at other schools when I've had students that are leading a training in circle keeping, for example, that can be so magnificent because the teacher gets to literally learn from their students, which I think is a dream that many people already are already want to do.   [00:36:06] Miko Lee: Absolutely. I think that's true.   [00:36:08] Ayame Keane-Lee: We're gonna take a quick break from the interview and listen to Slow Fade by MILCK.   MUSIC   [00:40:26] That was Slow Fade by MILCK.   [00:40:29] Miko Lee: I wanna pull a little bit bigger and talk a little bit more about restorative justice for just a moment. You write in your book about this need for a cultural shift, a paradigm shift because we are living in a capitalistic, uh, you know punishment based world in that we have this whole prison industrial complex and in, in fact the education to prison industrial complex. So can you talk about the different questions that are asked that, that restorative justice uses versus re, re versus like.    [00:41:01] Tatiana Chaterji: retributive.    [00:41:02] Miko Lee: Yes. Cannot say that word. So talk a little bit about the difference in our current system, which is this punishment base versus a restorative justice based. What kind of questions are different?    [00:41:13] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah, definitely. Uh, uh, and, and to say that it's not just oppressive, capitalistic, it's also very transactional, that our relationships are not human. They're about just what people can get from them. And I'm seeing that just a lot. Um, but Howard Zer, I think is one of the people that I would credit with these contrasting questions in our current system, in, in sort of punitive and criminal or carceral spaces, the questions are who what law or rule was broken?   [00:41:40] Who broke it? You know, who's at fault? And then what should be the consequence? And often consequence means punishment or retribution. It means a payback because you broke a law. And in that system, the law or the institutions, right, is. Is is more important than the person and the victim or survivor is invisible.   [00:42:02] They are not even really of concern. And our, that's how our criminal legal system works. You don't really often have to consult a victim or a survivor around what they want to have happened because they literally don't matter. Their, their voice is taken away. It's the state of California versus the person who is accused of a crime vis-a-vis the person who's hurt or their mother, their community versus someone who, who has caused harm in a restorative approach.   [00:42:30] We ask. What the heck just happened? What, what's going on? You know who was harmed? Who else was affected? And what needs to happen to make things right? And that what needs to happen to make things right? Also includes who needs to do what. So it's going into the impact, the needs that arise from that impact, and then the obligations that. flow from there. So it's a really sort of, it's a more holistic and humanizing approach to situations that are complex. There's always a backstory, and that backstory isn't to justify the harm, it's to give the context.   [00:43:14] It's to understand how things happen. I have, I'm now a mom, I have two kids. If something's going on at school or if my child is blamed for something, I have to ask what prompted this kid to do the thing? I mean, when you're a parent, you really feel it quite closely, but it's there all the time. There's sort of, there's cycles that get played out in any number of of problems that we attend to.   [00:43:38] Miko Lee: Thank you for breaking that down so clearly. We're living in this time right now where the Epstein files are just being released and every day there's a different story in the news. And I'm just wondering for folks right now that may be triggered every time they're listening or reading or what, taking in the news, what are some RJ methods for coping with that?   [00:44:01] Tatiana Chaterji: My gosh, I'm one of these people that is triggered constantly and I just wanna give a shout out to all the survivors of, um, of child sexual exploitation, commercial sexual exploitation, and um, uh, sexual violence, all the, the, um, the predatory stuff that happens on the streets in my community and definitely at the schools where I've been. It is extremely. Unjust on the local level, and we're seeing it at these, at the scale, right? Of power. So blatant,    [00:44:34] Miko Lee: so big, so international, so wild.    [00:44:39] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah. So in terms of how can RJ help, I mean, I would say that there is such a lack of any kind of accountability right now for the harm doers for people who have caused harm. There's no, there's not, there's not, there's not punishment, right? If you wanna look at retributive justice, there's not sort of    [00:44:57] Miko Lee: no accountability.    [00:44:58] Tatiana Chaterji: There's no accountability, but there's no compassionate encounter with with people who have done harm either. I mean, the framework I guess I would offer is the social relationship window. Um, ol and waktel, Ted Wachtel, various people have reenvisioned it, Dorothy Ving, and if you get the book, you can see all that. So that legacy, but that we sort of, we hold people who are causing harm. We hold them with love, and we also hold them with with a clear structure and boundary around what's acceptable.   [00:45:28] And so we're not sliding into a permissive zone where where we just let it go and enable the behavior to happen. And we're also not trying to dehumanize people who have caused harm and only see them as as monsters. I, I don't know, miko when it comes to people with such. Positional power, privilege, and just impunity. I, I don't know if I would apply that to the, to the perpetrators, right, to the people who, who are responsible for such harm right now. Like, that's not the conversation that I'm interested in having. I think, yeah, I, I don't know. Maybe I'm messing up this question.    [00:46:02] Miko Lee: No, you're not. I's so complicated because as an abolitionist, you know, I don't want these. I don't want people to be incarcerated necessarily, but these are some hideous, awful people that are like, so how do, how do you like wrestle with that?    [00:46:18] Tatiana Chaterji: I think it's like the, there's individuals right, who cause harm, but I think the main thing is that there are systems that allowed this harm and are allowing and have continued this harm to happen. I,  [00:46:29] Miko Lee: and it's perpetrated. It's still going on.    [00:46:30] Tatiana Chaterji: Right? Right. So I think like it's really about dismantling these systems and, and shining the light on what is there that we don't always see because we are caught up in the interpersonal, right. And so much of conversations about oppression will get into interpersonal because that's what we see.   [00:46:46] Miko Lee: Mm-hmm.    [00:46:46] Tatiana Chaterji: So students and community members will feel that someone is racist because someone has made a comment or this, that and the other. They're not seeing the kind of racial capitalism, the structure of poverty and what's baked into our laws that are behind it. So I think what circle and what restorative justice spaces can do is for me as someone who resists.   [00:47:08] Racial capitalism and resists structural inequality and the existence of poverty and racialized poverty in the way that it is, that it is. I think it is a space for dreaming together, for, for identifying shared struggle. What are the common things that we're dealing with? A circle is really good because it breaks people out of isolation that they think they're grappling with a thing on their own, and actually it is shared by other people and perhaps everyone. [00:47:38] So then from that place of shared struggle, what do we dream that, could be different? And how do we, organize together? I see the healing component of storytelling and of channeling grief and rage as connected to action and, and strategy. So that's primarily what I would say. Thank you for that question, for this timeliness. Yeah.   [00:48:02] Miko Lee: I'm wondering what you want folks to understand after reading your book. What do you want them to walk away with?    [00:48:09] Tatiana Chaterji: I think I want people to maybe f feel a, a little bit more confident that they could to the heart of pain with students and with others in your life, that there are frameworks and structures or ideas that can really. Hold you and support you in navigating that hard stuff or that even to study it. Maybe I want people to be curious about how do people create justice? What is, what is healing based justice look like? What's possible? Let's study it together because it takes a lot of work. It's not apparent. Our media and Hollywood, they glamorize, you know, there's propaganda.   [00:48:58] There's just like a glamorous portrayal of vengeance and that humanity, we can have vengeance, but we can also have other things. And those things might be the ones that we, the, the healing based justice systems is what we want when it's representing our best selves and what could help us and future generations.   [00:49:17] So to walk away with a little bit of hope. To not throw away RJ because of your past experiences where it sucked. RJ often sucks because of how, because of any number of factors and that it doesn't, don't give up. Don't give up. It can be better. And it, and, and there's some things that we can all learn, including myself and any of my own mistakes, that there's perhaps, it's still worth fighting for and it's still worth trying, and that we can do it slowly with care, with intention, and to give that.   [00:49:51] Allowance that people aren't going to be always ready, and it's not their fault. They, that doesn't make them less good or smart or wise or politically, you know, savvy. It's that there's so much that we are working against all the time to, and, and our survival mechanisms are very toxic. We don't really treat each other well, and that's on purpose. In fact, we tear each other down and that's, how, systems are allowed to continue to exploit us. So, yeah, that's, it's kind of a mouthful, but maybe a little bit of that, like a little bit of inspiration to try things on.   [00:50:26] Miko Lee: Okay, I wanna go back. Can you give a breakdown of what copaganda is?    [00:50:32] Tatiana Chaterji: Oh, I mean, copaganda is what we all, I mean, I consume it certainly. It's like the, it's Paw patrol, it's my kids getting exposed to superhero dogs that are the police because they quote unquote save the day. So it's these stories that the police are going to help. And in fact, we should look for them. There was a one time at a story circle, this person was reading a book and the, and the refrain was, help is on the way. Help is on the way. It gets kept going through any number of crises. That, anyways, just to say that help is not always on the way, as many of us know from trying to seek police protection from harm.   [00:51:14] And that when it does arrive, if it does, that it can cause harm to us, that we can be the target of it, especially if we're disabled or marginalized in another way. So propaganda is so pervasive, but it's this idea that the police will will help us. And we'll keep us safe. And I know from personal experience, my students know that that's not always true. So then what is the alternative? We kind of like add our voice and creativity into the mix, which is also very hard because it's a lot to work through. People are so culturally accustomed to thinking about external sources of help and protection from the state. You know?    [00:51:52] Miko Lee: And many marginalized communities have created their own pods of safety, like the Black Panthers and queer and trans folks because they knew that they could not rely on the cops to be able to help.   [00:52:04] Tatiana Chaterji: Absolutely. Yep. And that's how I learned with Insight, women of Color against Violence, learning from people, immigrant women, sex workers, people who are not protected, who could not, or undocumented immigrants who couldn't call on the state for help. What. What do they need and how do they create that for themselves?   [00:52:22] Mimi Kim was a big inspiration for me. So in my politics, kind of like trying to bring more people into this, right? Like, what, what does it look like when you talk about abolition? And students are like, no, are you kidding? Like, we can't get rid of prisons. And, and, and that is absolutely okay to have that conversation and to sort of open up the possibilities there, recognizing that many people have not even gotten the kind of justice or protection that a prison might afford for some people and maybe has in some instances. Right? So to start with that and to be like, you deserve better now. You deserved better, your family deserves better.    [00:53:00] Miko Lee: You deserve food and shelter.    [00:53:02] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah.    [00:53:02] Miko Lee: The basic things. Yes.    [00:53:04] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah.    [00:53:05] Miko Lee: Thank you so much for sharing. I really appreciate it. So I found this quote in your book by Aurora Levin Morales, and I'm just wondering, please read that quote for me, and then tell me the why. Why you included this, why it's so important. [00:53:20] Tatiana Chaterji: Aurora Elevens Morales is this poet who has given me so much inspiration with her work. And this quote was on the website of Restore Oakland, where I've partnered and I just, uh, shout out to Kari and Tash and everyone. So she says, for what is revolution, if not healing? And I put it, uh, to start off my I think it's the conclusion, breathing in shards from a broken sky, new air, and new lungs.   [00:53:46] And I kind of put forth this idea of RJ lungs, which really like strength are, are, are strong with the power of empathy and connection. And yeah, I think that political work and change making happens with healing, it's before and after and all around that there has to be that synchronicity between healing what's wounded and, and, and giving us space for that while also activating change that they shouldn't happen in these bubbles, which I think is, uh, more and more people are embracing that interplay between the two. It's not just you, you heal over here and therapy. You do your political work where you burn out and people are getting abused and hurt all the time. It's like more we should hold all of our human messy selves in the political work.    [00:54:35] Miko Lee: Thanks so much. And then my final thing is you included a quote by a ninth grade student. Could you share that quote with me and    [00:54:43] Tatiana Chaterji: Yes.    [00:54:43] Miko Lee: Why it's so important?    [00:54:44] Tatiana Chaterji: One of my, um, teacher comrades Danielle Zimmerman, this quote came from one of her students in a writing exercise. And Ms. Z is someone who just really embraces RJ in all, in, in all ways. And so the student says, feed your heart with love, forgiveness, hope, and healing words. There is no other way to survive. And I think for me, it's like if we are supposed to live in this world, if we want to live here, and we are taught that we have to be hard, we have to protect ourselves and be harsh and battle the hostility, uh, what is going to happen to us as a result? How are we shaping the, the, the next generation, our families the school environments that we're part of, so that instead of that hardness feed yourself with this love, with this softness, with the power of of tenderness and and healing and it just, yeah, this student is so brilliant.   [00:55:46] Miko Lee: Thank you so much for listening tonight. Remember to reconnect to your ancestral technologies and hold in the power of tenderness.   [00:55:55] Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about our show and our guests tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preti Mangala-Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by me Miko Lee, and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night.   The post APEX Express – 3.19.26- The Power of Tenderness appeared first on KPFA.

Today, John analyzes a case of home invasion and rape. Roberto De­trinidad com­mit­ted the crime in Au­gust 2013, was ar­rested in Sep­tem­ber 2014 and con­victed of the as­sault in June 2016. He recently won his parole board hearing and is set to be released from San Quentin State Prison by May 5th.

Send a textAlycia and Tyler meet on a flight from Houston to Los Angeles. As they experience extensive turbulence along the way, they distract themselves by sharing intimate secrets with each other.Bernadette Armstrong directs Christine Uhebe as Alycia and David Phurdham as Tyler.Linda Shayne is the playwright. She graduated from UC Berkeley, worked in mental hospitals and published articles about San Quentin State Prison ex-offenders, before she became a writer/director in film and TV. Shayne has written movies for Disney, Showtime, Imagine Entertainment, and directed for Nickelodeon,  Warner Bros, and Paramount. Shayne created a dramedy TV series for Quincy Jones, two animated series for Warner Bros, and a dramedy TV series to film in Thailand. She directed an award-winning documentary playing festivals and adapted a WW2 spy book for a Swiss producer. Recently, Shayne was hired to write/direct a rom-com movie.Support the showFounded by playwright and filmmaker Bernadette Armstrong, Open-Door Playhouse is a Theater Podcast- like the radio dramas of the 1940s and 1950s. The Playhouse launched on September 15, 2020. At the time, Open-Door Playhouse provided Playwrights, Actors and Directors a creative outlet during the shutdown. Since its inception. Open-Door Playhouse has presented Short and One-Act plays from Playwrights across the country and internationally. In 2021 Open-Door Playhouse received a Communicator Award for Content for the Play Custody and in 2023 the play What's Prison Like was nominated for a Webby Award in the Crime & Justice Category.Plays are produced by Bernadette Armstrong, Sound Engineer is David Peters, sound effects are provided by Audio Jungle, and music from Karaoke Version. All plays are recorded at The Oak House Studio in Altadena, CA. There's no paywall at the Open-Door Playhouse site, so you could listen to everything for free. Open-Door Playhouse is a 501c3 non-profit organization, and if you would like to support performances of works by new and emerging playwrights, your donation will be gratefully accepted. Your tax-deductible donations help keep our plays on the Podcast Stage. We strive to bring our listeners thoughtful and surprising one-act plays and ten-minute shorts that showcase insightful and new perspectives of the world we share with others. To listen or to donate (or both), go to https://opend...

A convicted murderer fashions an improbable escape from San Quentin State Prison. A husband searches for his missing wife, but must answer allegations he is responsible. A small town hero may also be a conman. This Week's Sponsors: Blissy - Go to blissy.com/ITHINKNOTPOD and use code ITHINKNOTPOD to get 60 nights risk-free and an additional 30% off!  Miracle Made - Go to trymiracle.com/THINKNOT and use the code THINKNOT to claim your free 3 piece towel set and save over 40% off SKIMS - Shop your favorite pajamas at skims.com/thinknot #skimspartner. If you haven't yet, be sure to let them know we sent you! After you place your order, select "podcast" in the survey and select I Think Not in the dropdown menu that follows Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today, on Crime & Entertainment, we have Darren Monahan. Darren was a prison guard at San Quentin State Prison. He ran the Hollywood block that included guarding guys like Charles Manson & The Night Stalker Richard Ramirez. Check out this gripping episode now.Links to Crime & EntertainmentLike us on Facebook -  https://www.facebook.com/crimeandentertainmentFollow us on IG - https://www.instagram.com/crimenentertainment/  Listen on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4T67Bs5...Listen on Apple Music - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...Listen on Stitcher - https://www.stitcher.com/show/crime-e...Listen on Google Podcast - https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0...

A man named Jack accidentally fell off the edge of a steep cliff. On the way down he was able to grab ahold of a branch, which temporarily stopped his fall. He looked down and to his horror discovered that there were hundreds of feet between him and the bottom of the canyon. He couldnt hang onto the branch forever, and there was no way for him to climb up the steep wall of the cliff. So Jack began yelling for help, hoping that someone passing by would hear him. HELP! HELP! Is anyone up there? HELP! He yelled for a long time, but no one heard him. He was about to give up when he heard a voice. Jack, Jack. Can you hear me? Yes, yes! I can hear you. Im down here! I can see you, Jack. Are you all right? Yes, but who are you, and where are you? I am the Lord, Jack. Im everywhere. The Lord? You mean, GOD? Thats Me. God, please help me! I promise if, youll get me down from here, Ill stop sinning. Ill be a really good person. Ill serve You for the rest of my life. Easy on the promises, Jack. Lets get you off from there, then we can talk. Now, heres what I want you to do. Listen carefully. Ill do anything, Lord. Just tell me what to do. Okay. Let go of the branch. What? I said, let go of the branch. Just trust Me. Let go. There was a long silence. Finally Jack yelled, HELP! HELP! IS ANYONE ELSE UP THERE? What is faith? Here is the way the Bible defines it: Faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see (Heb. 11:1; BSB). Abraham became known for that kind of faith, but it took a lifetime for him to get to the place of utter dependance upon God. I am not sure what Abrahams hopes and dreams were before he met God, but his home was in the City of Ur where Nanna, the Mesopotamian Moon god, was worshiped and his wife and family lived. Although childless, Abraham was prosperous, settled, and old. What he may or may not have known was that he was a descendant of Noah ten generations removed. When Abraham first heard God's calling, he was seventy-five years old, and his wife Sarah was sixty-five (see Gen. 12:4; 17:17). Despite their advanced age and the fact that they had no children, God gave Abraham a remarkable promise: I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed (Gen. 12:1-3). This was a profound and hopeful message, especially considering that Abrahams birth name was Abram, meaning Exalted Fathera title that must have felt ironic for a man with no children at seventy-five, and a wife (Sarai) ten years his junior. The name Abram brings to mind other individuals who have been given ironic or unfortunate names, such as the character mentioned in the following well-known song lyric: Well, my daddy left home when I was threeDidn't leave very much to my mom and meExcept this old guitar and an empty bottle of boozeNow I don't blame him 'cause he run and hidBut the meanest thing that my daddy ever didWas before he left, he went and named me Sue[1] God made three foundational promises to Abraham: first, He pledged to give him a land of his own; second, He vowed that Abraham would become the father of a vast multitude of descendants; and third, He assured that all nations would be blessed through him, signifying Gods plan of redemption. Trusting in these promises, Abraham left his home in Ur and journeyed to the land that God would reveal to him. The Promise (Gen. 17:1-9) Before we get to Genesis 17, I need to help you appreciate what Abraham (still Abram) was feeling and experiencing. When we come to Genesis 15, Abraham and Sarah are still childless about 10 years after they were promised a child! Abraham followed God out of obedience and brought his wife with him on the basis of a promise made by God that included many descendants, land, and a legacy that would bless multitudes in the future! At 85ish years old, God reassured Abraham (Abram), but what Gods reassurance was is up for debate based on the different ways Genesis 15:1 can be translated. Consider the ways NASB and the NKJV translated this verse: Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great. (NASB2020) Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward. (NKJV) So what is it? Based on Gods promise in Genesis 13:1-3 and how He will reiterate the promise later in Genesis 15, I think it is both. Here is one way you could paraphrase this verse: Because I am your reward, your reward will be great. Abraham was about ready to give up on believing the promise include a biological son, but then God swore on behalf of His own name that He would honor the promise He made to Abram and Sarah. God then entered into what is called a unilateral covenant of which He was obligated to honor that was not conditioned on anything that Abram did or did not do. God swore to Abraham (Abram), One who will come from your own body will be your heir (15:4b). What was Abrahams response? We are told in Genesis 15: Then he believed in the Lord; and He credited it to him as righteousness. Then about a year later, Sarah (still Sarai) developed a plan for her husband to get her maid, Hagar, pregnant; to have the heir God promised through her. After all, God said the promised heir would come from Abraham a year ago but did not seem to mention Sarai! So again, the forces of darkness were at work to prevent the Descendent promised to Adam and Eve, who would crush the head of the serpent from ever being born.[2] Hagar did get pregnant with Abrahams child, but all that did was bring more dysfunction into Abrahams home, among other problems. Abraham (still Abram) was 86 and Sarah (still Sarai) 76, with no child to show for the promise God made long ago. Now we come to the promise made yet again in Genesis 17, but this time it is 24 years since the couple left Ur and 13 years since the whole mess they create with Hagar and the birth of Ishmael. Before I go any further, let that settle in your heart and mind for a moment. For 24 years Abraham and Sarah waited, longed, hoped for the son that Almighty God promised them. Then 13 years later while Ishmael had reached the age of maturity and Abram resigned that there would be no heir by Ishmael, God appeared to Abraham (still Abram) and spoke yet again: I am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless. I will make My covenant between Me and you, and I will multiply you exceedingly (17:1-2). It is in this moment that God gave Abram the name Abraham which means father of a multitude. The blessing would not come through Ishmael, but through another son. So that there would be no room for confusion, God said to Abraham: As for your wife Sarai, you shall not call her by the name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her (17:1516). Abrahams response is understandable: Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, Will a child be born to a man a hundred years old? And will Sarah, who is ninety years old, give birth to a child? (v. 17). Nearly one year later, when Abraham was 100 years old and Sarah was 90 years old, she gave birth to Isaac, the son of promise (Gen. 21:1-8). The promise made to Adam and Eve, to Noah, and to Abraham would now come through Isaac. A promise that included land, descendants (a great multitude), and the blessing of the nations. Abraham received the promise when he was 75 and his wife past menopause which means to have a child together would have been a miracle at their respective ages, but for 90-year-old Sarah to carry the child of her 100-year-old husband was impossible! And that is the point, isnt it? There was nothing that Abraham or Sarah could do to make Gods promise possible, they could not make it happen sooner, they could not adjust Gods timing, all that they could do is trust and wait for God to do only what He could in His own timing. Their part in Gods promise was to trust, obey, and wait. The Promise of a Better Son (Gen. 22) We are not told how many years it was after Isaacs birth, but when we come to Genesis 22 we are told that God spoke to Abraham and said some of the most horrific words Abraham would ever hear: Then He said, Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you (Gen. 22:2). Things were different this time; Abraham was different this time, for he had known God for many years since he was first called out of his homeland. The Bible tells us that that Abraham, ...got up early in the morning and saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him and his son Isaac; and he split wood for the burnt offering, and set out and went to the place of which God had told him (v. 3). There were no arguments, no debate, no protest Abraham simply obeyed because He believed if he followed through with the sacrifice of his own son; God was big enough to raise him up from death to life. This is why when Abraham took Isaac up the mountain, he told the young men he brought with him: Then Abraham said to his young men, Stay here with the donkey, and I and the boy will go over there; and we will worship and return to you (v. 5). Although the exact number of years between Isaacs birth and Gods command for Abraham to sacrifice his son is not specified in the text, we can make a reasonable estimate based on several clues about Isaacs age. First, Isaac was old enough to walk alongside his father for the entire three-day journey while Abraham, advanced in years, rode a donkey. Second, Isaac had the strength to carry the wood for the burnt offering up the rugged slope of Mount Moriah after days of travel. Third, Isaac was old enough to make a critical observation: Isaac spoke to his father Abraham and said, My father! And he said, Here I am, my son. And he said, Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for the burnt offering? (v. 7). These details suggest that Isaac was not a small child; my guess is that he was at least 13 years old. There is something else you should be aware of about Abraham and Isaacs journey and what was said to the young men just before Abraham and Isaac made their way up Mt. Moriah: The journey would take 3 days to get to the place of Isaacs sacrifice. Most scholars believe that Mt. Moriah was the site where Jerusalem would eventually be built. On the third day, Abraham said to the young men, Stay here with the donkey, and I and the boy will go over there; and we will worship and return to you (v. 5). In other words, Abraham believed that there would be a resurrection after he slaughtered his son... ON THE THIRD DAY! So what happened? Did Abraham follow through with what God commanded? Abraham had seen too much to doubt Gods ability and character to do what He had promised. God promised a child through whom would come a great multitude and the nations would be blessed. Here is what happened: Then they came to the place of which God had told him; and Abraham built the altar there and arranged the wood, and bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. And Abraham reached out with his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son. But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, Abraham, Abraham! And he said, Here I am. He said, Do not reach out your hand against the boy, and do not do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me. Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him was a ram caught in the thicket by its horns; and Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering in the place of his son. Abraham would have followed through with killing his one and only son had God not stopped him because no longer did he put God in a box He was too big for any boxes because now He knew His God. What was Gods response? He simply reiterated His covenant promise: By Myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son, indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand, which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. And in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice (Gen. 22:16-18). Why did God command Abraham to sacrifice his son, and why did He refer to the child as, your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac (v. 2)? The significance lies in the foreshadowing of a greater Son who would come from Isaacs lineageJesus Christ, Gods own Son. In other words, Isaacs story points forward to a future sacrifice on another mount known as Golgotha, God the Father would do what He prevented Abraham from doing: He would slaughter His only unique Son, whom He loved, for the sins of the multitudes to redeem a people for himself by the blood of the greater and more perfect Isaac! While the "lesser Isaac" was confused and unsure of the purpose for the wood he carried, the "greater Isaac," Jesus Christ, carried a wooden cross fully aware of why He was doing it and with unwavering commitment to die in our place as the Lamb of God. Where God provided a ram to spare Isaac, Jesus willingly became our substitute, submitting to the Father's will and taking on the penalty for our sins. Isaac had to be bound before being placed on the altar, but Jesus embraced the cross freely, allowing sinful men to bound Him to the cross on our behalf. Oh dear brothers and sisters, Jesus Christ is the true and better Isaac of whom the Scriptures testify: God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God (2 Cor. 5:21). [1] Johnny Cash,A Boy Named Sue,performed by Johnny Cash, written by Shel Silverstein, recorded at San Quentin State Prison, 24 Feb. 1969, released onAt San Quentin,Columbia Records, 1969. [2] Now Sarai, Abrams wife, had not borne him a child, but she had an Egyptian slave woman whose name was Hagar. So Sarai said to Abram, See now, the Lord has prevented me from bearing children. Please have relations with my slave woman; perhaps I will obtain children through her. And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai. (Gen. 16:12)

A man named Jack accidentally fell off the edge of a steep cliff. On the way down he was able to grab ahold of a branch, which temporarily stopped his fall. He looked down and to his horror discovered that there were hundreds of feet between him and the bottom of the canyon. He couldnt hang onto the branch forever, and there was no way for him to climb up the steep wall of the cliff. So Jack began yelling for help, hoping that someone passing by would hear him. HELP! HELP! Is anyone up there? HELP! He yelled for a long time, but no one heard him. He was about to give up when he heard a voice. Jack, Jack. Can you hear me? Yes, yes! I can hear you. Im down here! I can see you, Jack. Are you all right? Yes, but who are you, and where are you? I am the Lord, Jack. Im everywhere. The Lord? You mean, GOD? Thats Me. God, please help me! I promise if, youll get me down from here, Ill stop sinning. Ill be a really good person. Ill serve You for the rest of my life. Easy on the promises, Jack. Lets get you off from there, then we can talk. Now, heres what I want you to do. Listen carefully. Ill do anything, Lord. Just tell me what to do. Okay. Let go of the branch. What? I said, let go of the branch. Just trust Me. Let go. There was a long silence. Finally Jack yelled, HELP! HELP! IS ANYONE ELSE UP THERE? What is faith? Here is the way the Bible defines it: Faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see (Heb. 11:1; BSB). Abraham became known for that kind of faith, but it took a lifetime for him to get to the place of utter dependance upon God. I am not sure what Abrahams hopes and dreams were before he met God, but his home was in the City of Ur where Nanna, the Mesopotamian Moon god, was worshiped and his wife and family lived. Although childless, Abraham was prosperous, settled, and old. What he may or may not have known was that he was a descendant of Noah ten generations removed. When Abraham first heard God's calling, he was seventy-five years old, and his wife Sarah was sixty-five (see Gen. 12:4; 17:17). Despite their advanced age and the fact that they had no children, God gave Abraham a remarkable promise: I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed (Gen. 12:1-3). This was a profound and hopeful message, especially considering that Abrahams birth name was Abram, meaning Exalted Fathera title that must have felt ironic for a man with no children at seventy-five, and a wife (Sarai) ten years his junior. The name Abram brings to mind other individuals who have been given ironic or unfortunate names, such as the character mentioned in the following well-known song lyric: Well, my daddy left home when I was threeDidn't leave very much to my mom and meExcept this old guitar and an empty bottle of boozeNow I don't blame him 'cause he run and hidBut the meanest thing that my daddy ever didWas before he left, he went and named me Sue[1] God made three foundational promises to Abraham: first, He pledged to give him a land of his own; second, He vowed that Abraham would become the father of a vast multitude of descendants; and third, He assured that all nations would be blessed through him, signifying Gods plan of redemption. Trusting in these promises, Abraham left his home in Ur and journeyed to the land that God would reveal to him. The Promise (Gen. 17:1-9) Before we get to Genesis 17, I need to help you appreciate what Abraham (still Abram) was feeling and experiencing. When we come to Genesis 15, Abraham and Sarah are still childless about 10 years after they were promised a child! Abraham followed God out of obedience and brought his wife with him on the basis of a promise made by God that included many descendants, land, and a legacy that would bless multitudes in the future! At 85ish years old, God reassured Abraham (Abram), but what Gods reassurance was is up for debate based on the different ways Genesis 15:1 can be translated. Consider the ways NASB and the NKJV translated this verse: Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great. (NASB2020) Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward. (NKJV) So what is it? Based on Gods promise in Genesis 13:1-3 and how He will reiterate the promise later in Genesis 15, I think it is both. Here is one way you could paraphrase this verse: Because I am your reward, your reward will be great. Abraham was about ready to give up on believing the promise include a biological son, but then God swore on behalf of His own name that He would honor the promise He made to Abram and Sarah. God then entered into what is called a unilateral covenant of which He was obligated to honor that was not conditioned on anything that Abram did or did not do. God swore to Abraham (Abram), One who will come from your own body will be your heir (15:4b). What was Abrahams response? We are told in Genesis 15: Then he believed in the Lord; and He credited it to him as righteousness. Then about a year later, Sarah (still Sarai) developed a plan for her husband to get her maid, Hagar, pregnant; to have the heir God promised through her. After all, God said the promised heir would come from Abraham a year ago but did not seem to mention Sarai! So again, the forces of darkness were at work to prevent the Descendent promised to Adam and Eve, who would crush the head of the serpent from ever being born.[2] Hagar did get pregnant with Abrahams child, but all that did was bring more dysfunction into Abrahams home, among other problems. Abraham (still Abram) was 86 and Sarah (still Sarai) 76, with no child to show for the promise God made long ago. Now we come to the promise made yet again in Genesis 17, but this time it is 24 years since the couple left Ur and 13 years since the whole mess they create with Hagar and the birth of Ishmael. Before I go any further, let that settle in your heart and mind for a moment. For 24 years Abraham and Sarah waited, longed, hoped for the son that Almighty God promised them. Then 13 years later while Ishmael had reached the age of maturity and Abram resigned that there would be no heir by Ishmael, God appeared to Abraham (still Abram) and spoke yet again: I am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless. I will make My covenant between Me and you, and I will multiply you exceedingly (17:1-2). It is in this moment that God gave Abram the name Abraham which means father of a multitude. The blessing would not come through Ishmael, but through another son. So that there would be no room for confusion, God said to Abraham: As for your wife Sarai, you shall not call her by the name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her (17:1516). Abrahams response is understandable: Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, Will a child be born to a man a hundred years old? And will Sarah, who is ninety years old, give birth to a child? (v. 17). Nearly one year later, when Abraham was 100 years old and Sarah was 90 years old, she gave birth to Isaac, the son of promise (Gen. 21:1-8). The promise made to Adam and Eve, to Noah, and to Abraham would now come through Isaac. A promise that included land, descendants (a great multitude), and the blessing of the nations. Abraham received the promise when he was 75 and his wife past menopause which means to have a child together would have been a miracle at their respective ages, but for 90-year-old Sarah to carry the child of her 100-year-old husband was impossible! And that is the point, isnt it? There was nothing that Abraham or Sarah could do to make Gods promise possible, they could not make it happen sooner, they could not adjust Gods timing, all that they could do is trust and wait for God to do only what He could in His own timing. Their part in Gods promise was to trust, obey, and wait. The Promise of a Better Son (Gen. 22) We are not told how many years it was after Isaacs birth, but when we come to Genesis 22 we are told that God spoke to Abraham and said some of the most horrific words Abraham would ever hear: Then He said, Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you (Gen. 22:2). Things were different this time; Abraham was different this time, for he had known God for many years since he was first called out of his homeland. The Bible tells us that that Abraham, ...got up early in the morning and saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him and his son Isaac; and he split wood for the burnt offering, and set out and went to the place of which God had told him (v. 3). There were no arguments, no debate, no protest Abraham simply obeyed because He believed if he followed through with the sacrifice of his own son; God was big enough to raise him up from death to life. This is why when Abraham took Isaac up the mountain, he told the young men he brought with him: Then Abraham said to his young men, Stay here with the donkey, and I and the boy will go over there; and we will worship and return to you (v. 5). Although the exact number of years between Isaacs birth and Gods command for Abraham to sacrifice his son is not specified in the text, we can make a reasonable estimate based on several clues about Isaacs age. First, Isaac was old enough to walk alongside his father for the entire three-day journey while Abraham, advanced in years, rode a donkey. Second, Isaac had the strength to carry the wood for the burnt offering up the rugged slope of Mount Moriah after days of travel. Third, Isaac was old enough to make a critical observation: Isaac spoke to his father Abraham and said, My father! And he said, Here I am, my son. And he said, Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for the burnt offering? (v. 7). These details suggest that Isaac was not a small child; my guess is that he was at least 13 years old. There is something else you should be aware of about Abraham and Isaacs journey and what was said to the young men just before Abraham and Isaac made their way up Mt. Moriah: The journey would take 3 days to get to the place of Isaacs sacrifice. Most scholars believe that Mt. Moriah was the site where Jerusalem would eventually be built. On the third day, Abraham said to the young men, Stay here with the donkey, and I and the boy will go over there; and we will worship and return to you (v. 5). In other words, Abraham believed that there would be a resurrection after he slaughtered his son... ON THE THIRD DAY! So what happened? Did Abraham follow through with what God commanded? Abraham had seen too much to doubt Gods ability and character to do what He had promised. God promised a child through whom would come a great multitude and the nations would be blessed. Here is what happened: Then they came to the place of which God had told him; and Abraham built the altar there and arranged the wood, and bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. And Abraham reached out with his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son. But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, Abraham, Abraham! And he said, Here I am. He said, Do not reach out your hand against the boy, and do not do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me. Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him was a ram caught in the thicket by its horns; and Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering in the place of his son. Abraham would have followed through with killing his one and only son had God not stopped him because no longer did he put God in a box He was too big for any boxes because now He knew His God. What was Gods response? He simply reiterated His covenant promise: By Myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son, indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand, which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. And in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice (Gen. 22:16-18). Why did God command Abraham to sacrifice his son, and why did He refer to the child as, your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac (v. 2)? The significance lies in the foreshadowing of a greater Son who would come from Isaacs lineageJesus Christ, Gods own Son. In other words, Isaacs story points forward to a future sacrifice on another mount known as Golgotha, God the Father would do what He prevented Abraham from doing: He would slaughter His only unique Son, whom He loved, for the sins of the multitudes to redeem a people for himself by the blood of the greater and more perfect Isaac! While the "lesser Isaac" was confused and unsure of the purpose for the wood he carried, the "greater Isaac," Jesus Christ, carried a wooden cross fully aware of why He was doing it and with unwavering commitment to die in our place as the Lamb of God. Where God provided a ram to spare Isaac, Jesus willingly became our substitute, submitting to the Father's will and taking on the penalty for our sins. Isaac had to be bound before being placed on the altar, but Jesus embraced the cross freely, allowing sinful men to bound Him to the cross on our behalf. Oh dear brothers and sisters, Jesus Christ is the true and better Isaac of whom the Scriptures testify: God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God (2 Cor. 5:21). [1] Johnny Cash,A Boy Named Sue,performed by Johnny Cash, written by Shel Silverstein, recorded at San Quentin State Prison, 24 Feb. 1969, released onAt San Quentin,Columbia Records, 1969. [2] Now Sarai, Abrams wife, had not borne him a child, but she had an Egyptian slave woman whose name was Hagar. So Sarai said to Abram, See now, the Lord has prevented me from bearing children. Please have relations with my slave woman; perhaps I will obtain children through her. And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai. (Gen. 16:12)

I just got back from prison. Yep—you read that right. Melanie and I, alongside legendary author & philanthropist Bob Goff and the Love Does team, spent a full day inside San Quentin State Prison in northern CA. And let me tell you, it was one of the most powerful, life-changing experiences you could only imagine. Today's episode is raw, real, and fresh—we recorded it just days after getting back. You'll hear from both me and Melanie as we share what we saw, what we felt, and the incredible lessons we learned from the men inside those walls, many of them who have life-sentences. Before diving in, I've got three coaching questions for you that deal with the 7-lessons we will share today (Please keep them in mind WHILE you are listening to this episode): What are your greatest ambitions and dreams? What is your hope and where are you placing your hope these days? What are your fears…and what's your relationship with fear? Here are some of the lessons and take-aways we brought home from San Quentin and will discuss in Episode 444: The Power of a Greeting – One hug. One moment. One welcome can change everything. Wait until you hear this one! The Yard is Where It's At – Raw humanity on display: boxing, baseball, running, workouts, conversations, and even the “pigeon guy.” Reform & Rehabilitation Work – Hundreds of programs, degrees, certifications, and initiatives giving men hope and purpose inside the walls. Communication Matters – No phones. No distractions. Just presence, depth, and real conversation. The Power of a Small Group – Stories of Max, Jesse, and others reminded us that dreams of family, freedom, and redemption are universal. The Power of One Conversation – Sometimes a single word of encouragement, one moment of presence, can alter a life's trajectory. The Power of a Mission – What Bob Goff and “Love Does” is doing to build schools across the globe inspired Melanie and I to ask: “How can the Durkin IMPACT Foundation do even more? Listen in… At the heart of it all, this trip reminded me of something Pastor Miles McPherson told me years ago: “All people—prisoners, homeless, troubled, broken—they are ALL God's people, made in His image.” So true. Melanie and I left San Quentin in deep gratitude and with a burning question: How can we do more? How can we serve in ways that create even greater IMPACT? So, I'll leave you with one more question today: Where and how can YOU show up, serve, and give back to make the biggest impact also? Thanks for listening, my friends. Please share this one—it's a message we all need to hear. If this episode fires you up, here's how you can help spread the impact: SHARE it on IG and tag us at @ToddDurkin @melaniedurkin @bobgoff #LoveDoes #IMPACT Leave a rating & review wherever you listen. Send it to someone who needs a corner man right now. Now go get after it… Train hard. Eat right. Live inspired. Go create IMPACT.    P.S #1 Are you a trainer, a teacher, a parent, a leader… and you're ready to work deeper with people. Not just on tasks or reps, but on who they're BECOMING. If that's you, then I want to invite you to join my FREE LIVE WEBINAR:  Passion to Purpose to Profit! How to Turn Your Wisdom Into a Career You Love Thursday, September 18th ⏰ 12pm PT | 3pm ET Save your spot here → [SIGN UP LINK] In this LIVE training, I'm going to show you: The difference between life coaching and therapy The #1 skill every life coach MUST master How to define your niche & build your signature framework How to land your first clients from HOME The exact path to becoming certified & client-ready It's going to be HIGH-ENERGY. Real talk. Real stories. Real strategy. And a whole lot of inspiration to help you go from idea → income → IMPACT. You don't need to quit your job. You don't need a massive audience. You just need your HEART… and the right blueprint. Let's build it together. Sign up now and I'll see you LIVE on Thursday, Sept 18th → [SIGN UP HERE] P.S. #2 Become a Certified ‘GET YOUR MIND RIGHT' Mindset Coach TODAY! If you're a coach, parent, or mentor who wants to raise confident, focused, resilient athletes — this is the course you've been waiting for. The “Get Your Mind Right Mindset Coaching Certification” is LIVE. Built by myself and Andrew Simpson — and powered by TeamBuildr — this certification gives you elite tools to coach the mental game like never before. We cover topics such as: Mental toughness & reset frameworks Real scripts & strategies for confidence and composure Visualization, journaling & breathwork systems Tools you can use TODAY — on the field, in the gym, or in life Plus 2 months FREE in our private Mindset Coach Community This is how you build athletes for life. This is how you create lasting impact through sport. Get certified now at: www.gymrcoaching.com P.S #3 Ready to breathe in some Mountain Fresh Air? Want to go deeper on business, leadership and life and create even more success and significance? Ready to IGNITE your passion, purpose, and IMPACT? If so, then join me for our 2025 Annual Mountain Retreat in Whitefish, Montana November 13–16, 2025 This 2.5-day retreat is for ALL purpose-driven leaders, high-performers, fitness enthusiasts/professionals, and visionaries who are ready to dream big, expand their legacy, step into their next chapter with clarity and power…and be ready to be IGNITED with more passion, purpose, and IMPACT!! SIGN-UP NOW at: www.ToddDurkin.com/mountainretreat2025

In the Arms Down program at the San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, formerly San Quentin State Prison, “firearm addiction” is treated like an alcohol addiction. Its founders, all of whom are currently incarcerated men, say that talking about why perpetrators of gun violence carry guns in the first place is their contribution to gun violence prevention from behind bars.  Links: The revolutionary prison program where men help each other put down their guns: ‘Don't end up like me' Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

✦ What's the unlikeliest place you can think of to start a podcast? Well, back in 2016, the creatives behind the hit podcast Ear Hustle launched their show from inside California's San Quentin State Prison. Their goal? To tell first-hand true stories of life during and after incarceration. The show is co-hosted by Earlonne Woods, who spent over 20 years in prison, and Nigel Poor, who first came to San Quentin as a photography instructor. The duo will be hosting a live taping of "Ear Hustle" at Terminal West on August 5, and they recently sat down with City Lights Collective co-host Kim Drobes to discuss what's in store. ✦ The Atlanta spoken word community is going through an extremely tough time. Actor, musician, spoken word poet, and brother to all, Malcolm Jamal Warner, suddenly and tragically passed away last week. To honor and celebrate his life, his art, and his legacy, a collection of some of the best poets in the nation, including Grammy award winner J Ivy, Tony award winner GA Me, Theresa Tha Songbird, Abyss, Queen Sheba, and many others are performing at City Winery tomorrow. Doors are at 11a.m. and the performances take place from Noon to 3pm. ✦ Tossing bean bags or rolling bocce balls—it's the kind of simple fun that can make you feel like a kid again. Only this time, maybe you've got a beer in hand. The Atlanta Cornhole and Bocce League is all about bringing that playful energy to a local pub near you. WABE arts reporter Summer Evans shares more on how these outdoor games are turning weeknights into something worth showing up for. ✦ The Pan African Festival returns on August 16 with the theme of Liberation Rising: Remember, Resist, Rejoice. Created by the Beacon Hill Black Alliance for Human Rights, this is the festival's 5th year, and the event promises to bring music, food, dance, and discussion to the heart of Decatur. The Alliance's co-chair is Fonta High, and when City Lights Collective member Katina Pappas-DeLuca recently caught up with her, the leader began by explaining the organization's history and mission. ✦ Could the key to advancing AI, educating under-resourced youth, and even healing the divisions of our country lie in hip hop? Author Manny Faces thinks so. A longtime advocate for hip-hop culture and academia, Faces speaks with experts and explores this concept in his new book, "Hip Hop Can Save America!" City Lights Collective producer Josh Thane sat down with him to learn more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

William Harder is known for his controversial collection of items associated with notorious criminals, a hobby often referred to as "murderabilia." His collection includes letters, artwork, and other memorabilia from individuals such as Richard Ramirez, the "Night Stalker," and Charles Manson. Harder has stated that he began his collection after corresponding with Ramirez, leading to a friendship and regular visits to San Quentin State Prison. He has also reached out to other inmates, including Manson, to expand his collection.In addition to his personal collection, Harder operates a website called MurderAuction.com, where he facilitated the sale of items from incarcerated individuals. This site attracted criticism for potentially enabling criminals to profit from their notoriety. Harder defended the website, describing it as a hobby rather than a business venture.https://linktr.ee/UnforbiddentruthBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/unforbidden-truth--4724561/support.

President Trump's reciprocal tariffs officially go into effect. How will other nations respond to them? Gavin Newsom will be transforming San Quentin State Prison, home to some of the state's most hardened criminals, into a Scandinavian-style rehab resort including a Swedish-style spa retreat with a farmers market, podcast studios, and a self-service grocery store.  Dana explains how the Trump Administration needs to message tariffs to stable markets. Could tariffs signal an end to the age of bargain clothing shopping and further devastate shopping malls. The demise starts as America's malls are already struggling.  Quotes from Ex Biden's Chief of Staff's book about Biden sound WAY different from his previous claims. Dana reflects back on the proxy voting fight in Congress Wednesday. The Labor Department says it is attempting to retrieve a total of $4.3B in unused COVID-era funding. The Georgia father that was jailed for leaving his kids at McDonald's while job hunting was not actually job hunting. Georgia House Democrats walked out of the chamber en masse in protest of a Republican-backed bill to block taxpayer funds from being used to pay for gender-affirming care for state prison inmates. A miniature dachshund named Valerie, who has spent almost a year and a half lost on a remote island in southern Australia, has been spotted in the wild and rescue workers think they're close to catching the puppy. Thank you for supporting our sponsors that make The Dana Show possible…Relief Factorhttps://relieffactor.com Turn the clock back on pain with Relief Factor. Get their 3-week Relief Factor Quick Start for only $19.95 today! Goldcohttps://DanaLikesGold.com  My personal gold company - get your GoldCo 2025 Gold & Silver Kit. PLUS, you could qualify for up to 10% in BONUS silverByrnahttps://byrna.com/dana Don't leave yourself or your loved ones without options. Visit Byrna.com/Dana receive 10% off Patriot Mobilehttps://patriotmobile.com/Dana Dana's personal cell phone provider is Patriot Mobile. Get a FREE MONTH of service code DANA HumanNhttps://humann.com Support your metabolism and healthy blood sugar levels with Superberine by HumanN. Find it now at your local Sam's Club next to SuperBeets Heart Chews. Tax Network USAhttps://TNUSA.com/DANA Don't let the IRS's aggressive tactics control your life empower yourself with Tax Network USA's support.  Reach a USA based agent @ 1(800) 958-1000 - Don't fight the IRS aloneKelTechttps://KelTecWeapons.com See the NEW PS57 - Keltec Innovation & Performance at its best All Family Pharmacy https://AllFamilyPharmacy.com/Dana Code Dana10 for 10% off your entire order

Gavin Newsom will be transforming San Quentin State Prison, home to some of the state's most hardened criminals, into a Scandinavian-style rehab resort including a Swedish-style spa retreat with a farmers market, podcast studios, and a self-service grocery store. Meanwhile, the Georgia father that was jailed for leaving his kids at McDonald's while job hunting was not actually job hunting.Thank you for supporting our sponsors that make The Dana Show possible…Relief Factorhttps://relieffactor.com Turn the clock back on pain with Relief Factor. Get their 3-week Relief Factor Quick Start for only $19.95 today! Goldcohttps://DanaLikesGold.com  My personal gold company - get your GoldCo 2025 Gold & Silver Kit. PLUS, you could qualify for up to 10% in BONUS silverByrnahttps://byrna.com/dana Don't leave yourself or your loved ones without options. Visit Byrna.com/Dana receive 10% off Patriot Mobilehttps://patriotmobile.com/Dana Dana's personal cell phone provider is Patriot Mobile. Get a FREE MONTH of service code DANA HumanNhttps://humann.com Support your metabolism and healthy blood sugar levels with Superberine by HumanN. Find it now at your local Sam's Club next to SuperBeets Heart Chews. Tax Network USAhttps://TNUSA.com/DANA Don't let the IRS's aggressive tactics control your life empower yourself with Tax Network USA's support.  Reach a USA based agent @ 1(800) 958-1000 - Don't fight the IRS aloneKelTechttps://KelTecWeapons.com See the NEW PS57 - Keltec Innovation & Performance at its best All Family Pharmacy https://AllFamilyPharmacy.com/Dana Code Dana10 for 10% off your entire order

The Freeway Killer, Bill Bonin, was a notorious American serial killer who, alongside his accomplices, terrorized Southern California in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Bonin, often referred to as the "Freeway Killer" due to his victims' bodies being dumped along highways and freeways, is believed to have murdered at least 14 young men and boys between 1979 and 1980, though the exact number is still debated.His victims, often hitchhikers or male prostitutes, were sexually assaulted, tortured, and then killed, typically by strangulation or blunt force trauma.Bonin was a former military man with a history of violent offenses and was described as being charismatic yet extremely manipulative. He lured many of his victims by offering them rides, only to overpower them and subject them to horrific abuse. His killing spree was initially difficult to track, as he often discarded the bodies in remote locations along freeways in Los Angeles and surrounding areas.After his arrest in 1980, Bonin was convicted of 10 murders, though he was linked to additional cases. He was sentenced to death in 1982 and spent years on death row at San Quentin State Prison. Bonin was finally executed by lethal injection in 1996, after his appeals were exhausted. His crimes left a lasting legacy of fear in Southern California and remain one of the most chilling chapters in the history of American serial killers.Bonin's case also highlighted the disturbing nature of his accomplices, including a man named James Munro, Gregory Miley and Vernon Butts, who participated in some of the killings, contributing to the complexity and scope of the crimes. The Freeway Killer case remains a tragic example of the dangers lurking within society, as well as the dark psyche of a man who carried out his brutal acts under the radar for several years before justice was finally served.https://linktr.ee/UnforbiddentruthBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/unforbidden-truth--4724561/support.

Andy Marra is on a mission to Korea in search of the mother she never knew with a secret she absolutely has to tell. And when two close friends can't see each other face-to-face, they exchange letters from two very different places.The Birth DreamAndy Marra is on a mission to Korea in search of the mother she never knew with a secret she absolutely has to tell.Thank you, Andy, for sharing your story with Snap! Find out more about her advocacy work here.Produced by Regina Bediako, original score by Renzo Gorrio, artwork by Teo Ducot.Letters from UncuffedIt's been almost a year since friends and family have been able to visit their loved ones in prison, due to the pandemic. Letters to the inside are always a lifeline. This year, more than ever.Today, from Uncuffed, we hear from Adamu Chan, who was recently released from San Quentin State Prison, while his friend Edmond Richardson, is still on the inside.Uncuffed is a storytelling project made by people behind bars, from inside California prisons, in collaboration with KALW. To hear the full version of this story, visit Uncuffed and make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!Produced by Adamu Chan, Ninna Gaensler-Debs, Angela Johnston, Pat Mesiti-Miller & Eli Wirtschafter.Snap Classic – Season 16 – Episode 4 Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

In this episode of One Minute Remaining, I sit down with Jessie Milo, an inmate at the infamous San Quentin State Prison.Jessie has been handed a sentence that might suggest he ranks among the likes of Ted Bundy or the BTK Killer—yet Jessie has never taken a life. His true crime is a series of incredibly poor life choices. With a childhood spent on drug runs with his mother at just five years old and a father who was repeatedly sent to prison, it's little wonder Jessie found himself following a similar path.Jessie opens up about life behind the storied walls of San Quentin, the challenges of incarceration—including nearly eight years spent in solitary confinement—and the personal journey that led him there. From navigating the harsh realities of prison culture to sharing his thoughts on redemption and reform, Jessie's story provides a raw and unfiltered glimpse into life on the inside. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of One Minute Remaining, I sit down with Jessie Milo, an inmate at the infamous San Quentin State Prison.Jessie has been handed a sentence that might suggest he ranks among the likes of Ted Bundy or the BTK Killer—yet Jessie has never taken a life. His true crime is a series of incredibly poor life choices. With a childhood spent on drug runs with his mother at just five years old and a father who was repeatedly sent to prison, it's little wonder Jessie found himself following a similar path.Jessie opens up about life behind the storied walls of San Quentin, the challenges of incarceration—including nearly eight years spent in solitary confinement—and the personal journey that led him there. From navigating the harsh realities of prison culture to sharing his thoughts on redemption and reform, Jessie's story provides a raw and unfiltered glimpse into life on the inside. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mark Steel is a writer, comedian and radio presenter. His performing career began as a poet in the alternative comedy scene in the early eighties at the Comedy Store. A regular presenter on Radio 4, he began his award winning series, Mark Steel's in Town in 2009. Alongside his performing career, he's been a regular newspaper columnist writing for the Guardian and Independent Newspapers. Mark was born in 1960 and adopted at ten days old by Doreen and Ernie. He grew up in Swanley, Kent and left home at 18 to live in a squat in Crystal Palace. After his own son was born, Mark spent many years tracing his birth parents and eventually met up with his genetic father who had been a professional gambler and a friend of Lord Lucan. Mark has two children and lives in London.DISC ONE: My Boy Lollipop - Millie Small DISC TWO: Janie Jones - The Clash DISC THREE: San Quentin (Live at San Quentin State Prison, San Quentin, CA - February 1969) - Johnny Cash DISC FOUR: Killing in the Name - Rage Against The Machine DISC FIVE: Trøllabundin - Eivør Pálsdóttir DISC SIX: Love Me or Leave Me - Nina Simone DISC SEVEN: Into My Arms - Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds DISC EIGHT: 1977 - Ana Tijoux BOOK CHOICE: Wisden Cricketers' Almanack LUXURY ITEM: A piano CASTAWAY'S FAVOURITE: Love Me or Leave Me - Nina SimonePresenter Lauren Laverne Producer Sarah Taylor

*This episode originally aired on December 21, 2018.This is part two of a two-part interview. To listen to part one, click here.In part two of this two-part interview, Death Row inmate Kevin Cooper, once coming within four hours of execution, details how he copes with the daily torment of impending death as his legal team fights to prove his innocence with new exonerating evidence Gov. Jerry Brown has refused to allow to be examined. For the past 33 Christmas holidays, Kevin Cooper has inhabited an 11-by-4 ½-foot cell in California's San Quentin State Prison, the last eight waiting for Brown to grant him a new hearing and advanced DNA testing that would support what federal Appellate Judge William C. Fletcher has said: “Kevin Cooper is on Death Row because the San Bernardino sheriff’s department framed him.” Cooper, at the top of the list to be killed when the state resumes executions, talks to Robert Scheer in the latest installment of "Scheer Intelligence" about the unfairness of the justice system and the difficulty of proving one’s innocence once convicted: “”Whenever you have a judge that comes forward and stands up and says no, this person innocent…this person was framed, we need to take that serious as a society.” He discusses his ongoing struggle to preserve his basic humanity: "I’ve been blessed, in a sick sense of the word. I’ve been cursed by putting me here, but while I’m in here, I’ve been blessed, because there are a lot of death row inmates who commit suicide every time you turn around. They took a guy past this cage last night on a gurney, ‘cause he was ‘man down’...Don’t know if he lived or died. But they’ve been committing suicide up here, they’ve been killing each other up here. All types of craziness has been going on up in here."  Cooper explains how he has kept hope alive when he could so easily succumb to desperation and despair.  He paints, writes and reads voraciously but is most passionate when speaking out against the death penalty: "When you find yourself in a fight that is bigger than you—[capital punishment] affects the lives of many people—and you can do something to help in that fight, you can’t give up...You can’t stop, you can’t quit. You just can’t do it...I did not choose this, to speak out against the death penalty; I didn’t. This [struggle] chose me."

In this episode, I interview Valentino and Irma Rodriguez, the parents of Correctional Officer Valentino Rodriguez, Jr.Val Jr. worked as a correctional officer at both San Quentin State Prison and California State Prison Sacramento for over five years before he died of a fentanyl overdose in 2020. We discuss his family history, how Val Jr.'s death impacted their family, and get to know Val Jr. posthumously through the eyes of his parents. We also discuss the familiar topics of harassment, work place retaliation, suicide, addiction, and bullying.  

  On Wednesday November, 27, 2024, the night before Thanksgiving, Governor Gavin Newsom of CA granted a a “full and unconditional” pardon to Earlonne Woods, co-host and co-creator of the award-winning podcast, Ear Hustle. Earlonne helped create Ear Hustle while incarcerated at San Quentin State Prison. In recognition of Earlonne's achievement, we are sharing with you an episode of Wrongful Conviction where Earlonne appeared as a guest host. Congratulations Earlonne. We are eager to hear more from you in the future. On March 24, 1990, Felix “Carlos” Bastarrica was shot and killed on the street in San Francisco, CA. Following the shooting, Candido “Peter” Diaz, started rumors that one of Felix's friends, Joaquin Ciria, was responsible. Relying on the rumors, police immediately targeted Joaquin and coerced 18-year-old George Varela – the man who drove the actual shooter to the crime – to falsely implicate Joaquin. Based primarily on this, and despite the complete lack of physical evidence linking him to the crime, Joaquin was convicted of murder and sentenced to 31 years to life in prison. Earlonne Woods talks to Joaquin Ciria and Paige Kaneb, Joaquin's attorney. To learn more and get involved, visit:  https://ncip.org/ Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for Good™ Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1. We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Judy Bornstein, Boomer, joins me to discuss conflict – whoa! Judy is the Founder of C Suite Resolutions, where she provides mediation, ombuds services, conflict and negotiation coaching, and corporate trainings to organizations and executives. She has worked extensively as a CFO and Chief Compliance Officer, and brings her business experience to her work in addressing conflict. Topics Covered: Conflict definition Disagreement vs conflict Gossip Consequences of pushing down conflict Costs involved in unresolved conflicts How organizations set themselves up to handle conflicts Ombuds (trained independent designated neutral to build trust) Working in conflict and understanding our reactions Mediations Three Episode Takeaways   1.   If we only think of conflict as a fight we can lose that it can be a really powerful engine for creativity, change, and self-reflection. 2.   Responses to conflict can fall along gender lines. Many women are raised to “be nice” and “be good”, and told “don't make a scene”. Women may be uncomfortable acknowledging a conflict so will be quiet or not address it directly, and there is less latitude for women to express conflict than is often afforded to men 3.   Humans are naturally (evolutionarily) wired to not like conflict, so that means our managers, bosses, and leaders probably don't like conflict. As a result conflict may pushed down or silenced, which can lead to unintentional consequences like blaming the people involved rather than learning from the situation. Conflict is an inherent part of growth and innovation in organizations.   Great Quotes: Hope is not a strategy. We may have conflict because we are wise enough to see the complexity in our world. If you have conflict in your life it doesn't mean there's something wrong with you.  Conflict can be perplexing.   Episode Resources:   Baruch Bush: https://www.beyondintractability.org/bksum/bush-promise   More About Judy:   Judy is a doctoral candidate at Penn State University where her research interests center around organizational conflict. She holds a Masters in Dispute Resolution from Pepperdine University's Caruso School of Law, and an MBA from Simmons University in Boston, where she graduated first in her class. Judy is a Mediation trainer and serves on the San Francisco Bar Association Mediation Panel and on the Arbitration Panel for FINRA (the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority). She is a regular mediator for the Congress of Neutrals where she mediates court cases in Contra Costa County, CA. Judy also co-facilitates a Transformative Mediation group inside San Quentin State Prison, where she offers mediation and conflict-resolution training to incarcerated men interested in non-violent conflict resolution.     How to reach Judy:   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/judybornstein/ Email: jb@csuiteresolutions.com Website: www.csuiteresolutions.com   How to reach Yo Canny:    Our website: www.girltaketheleadpod.com  You can send a message or voicemail there. We'd love to hear from you!   email: yo@yocanny.com   FB group: Girl, Take the Lead https://www.facebook.com/groups/272025931481748/?ref=share   IG: yocanny   YouTube   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yocanny/

The Freeway Killer, Bill Bonin, was a notorious American serial killer who, alongside his accomplices, terrorized Southern California in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Bonin, often referred to as the "Freeway Killer" due to his victims' bodies being dumped along highways and freeways, is believed to have murdered at least 14 young men and boys between 1979 and 1980, though the exact number is still debated.His victims, often hitchhikers or male prostitutes, were sexually assaulted, tortured, and then killed, typically by strangulation or blunt force trauma.Bonin was a former military man with a history of violent offenses and was described as being charismatic yet extremely manipulative. He lured many of his victims by offering them rides, only to overpower them and subject them to horrific abuse. His killing spree was initially difficult to track, as he often discarded the bodies in remote locations along freeways in Los Angeles and surrounding areas.After his arrest in 1980, Bonin was convicted of 10 murders, though he was linked to additional cases. He was sentenced to death in 1982 and spent years on death row at San Quentin State Prison. Bonin was finally executed by lethal injection in 1996, after his appeals were exhausted. His crimes left a lasting legacy of fear in Southern California and remain one of the most chilling chapters in the history of American serial killers.Bonin's case also highlighted the disturbing nature of his accomplices, including a man named James Munro, Gregory Miley and Vernon Butts, who participated in some of the killings, contributing to the complexity and scope of the crimes. The Freeway Killer case remains a tragic example of the dangers lurking within society, as well as the dark psyche of a man who carried out his brutal acts under the radar for several years before justice was finally served.https://linktr.ee/UnforbiddentruthBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/unforbidden-truth--4724561/support.

Refugees in California are generally protected from federal deportation under sanctuary and safe haven laws, unless they've been incarcerated. And in 2022, after serving 25 years for murder, San Quentin State Prison parolee Phoeun You was turned over to ICE, and deported to Cambodia. In this episode, the story of Phoeun You: a man returned to a country he never knew. This episode was produced in partnership with KQED's The California Report Magazine podcast. Producer:   Mateo Schimpf If you appreciate this episode and want to support the work we do, please consider making a donation to Commonwealth Club World Affairs. We cannot do this work without your help. Thank you.

The rivalry between the Aryan Brotherhood (AB) and the Black Guerrilla Family (BGF) is one of the most intense and violent conflicts within the U.S. prison system. Originating in the 1960s at San Quentin State Prison, these gangs were formed with starkly different ideologies: the AB centered on white supremacy and racial solidarity, while the BGF was driven by black revolutionary and Marxist ideals. Over the decades, both gangs expanded their influence through violent confrontations, strategic alliances, and a deep-seated commitment to their respective causes. Notable figures like Barry Mills of the AB and George Jackson of the BGF played crucial roles in shaping the groups' aggressive tactics and expansion, often resulting in bloody clashes and targeted assassinations to assert dominance and control over prison economies and territories.This conflict has had a significant impact on the U.S. prison system, leading to heightened security measures, increased violence, and a culture of fear and tension among inmates and staff. Both gangs employ a range of strategies, from leveraging corrupt prison staff to using a network of “cells” to maintain control and power. Their rivalry extends beyond prison walls, influencing street gangs and criminal networks, making them formidable forces both inside and outside of prison. The relentless pursuit of power by the AB and BGF perpetuates a cycle of violence and retribution, reflecting the harsh realities of survival and dominance within the penal system.(commercial at 9:16)to contact me:  bobbycapucci@protonmail.com

Nigel and Earlonne visit the largest women's prison in the world, the Central California Women's Facility, and speak to five people about building a life in a tough environment, and calling that place home.Special thanks to Warden Anissa De La Cruz and Lt. Monique Williams for welcoming us to CCWF. Thanks also to Acting Warden Oak Smith and Lt. Guim'Mara Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Molly Hill and Lt. William Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show."See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

My special guest tonight is author Dennis McDougal who stops by to discuss serial killer Randy Kraft and how targeted gay men.   Randy Kraft was highly intelligent, politically active, loyal to his friends, committed to his work--and the killer of 67 people--more than any other serial killer known.    Randy Steven Kraft (born March 19, 1945) is an American serial killer and rapist known as the Scorecard Killer, the Southern California Strangler, and the Freeway Killer,[4] who committed the rape, torture, and murder of a minimum of sixteen young men between 1972 and 1983, the majority of whom he killed in California. Kraft is also believed to have committed the rape and murder of up to fifty-one other young men and boys. He was convicted in May 1989[5] and is currently incarcerated on death row at San Quentin State Prison in Marin County, California.[6] Kraft became known as the "Scorecard Killer" because upon his arrest, investigators discovered a coded list with 61 entries on a scorecard containing cryptic references to his victims;[7] he is also sometimes referred to as the "Freeway Killer" because many of his victims' bodies were discovered beside or near freeways.[8] Kraft shares the latter epithet with two separate and unrelated serial killers, William Bonin and Patrick Kearney.   Between 1971 and 1983, Kraft is believed to have killed 67 victims. All of his suspected victims were males between the ages of 13 and 35,[13][35] the majority of whom were in their late teens to mid-twenties. Kraft was charged with—and convicted of—sixteen of these homicides, all of which had occurred between 1972 and 1983. Many of his victims were members of the United States Marines Corps,[36] and most of their bodies were found to have high levels of both alcohol and tranquilizers, indicating they had been unconscious when they were abused and killed.[37] Kraft's victims were typically lured into his vehicle with an offer of a lift or alcohol. Once in Kraft's vehicle, the victims would be plied with alcohol and/or other drugs. They were then bound, tortured, and sexually abused before they were killed, usually by either strangulation, asphyxiation, or bludgeoning. However, some victims had also ingested lethal doses of pharmaceuticals. At least one victim was stabbed to death.[38] The victims would then be discarded, usually—though not exclusively—alongside or close to various freeways in southern California. Photographic evidence found at Kraft's home indicates several of his victims were driven to his house before their murder.[39] Many of the victims were burned with a car cigarette lighter, usually around the genitals, chest, and face, and several were found with extensive blunt force trauma to the face and head.[40] In several instances, foreign objects were found inserted into the victims' rectums, while other victims had suffered emasculation, or mutilation and dismemberment.[41] The majority of Kraft's murders were committed in California, although some victims had been killed in Oregon, with two further known victims murdered in Michigan in December 1982.Follow Our Other ShowsFollow UFO WitnessesFollow Crime Watch WeeklyFollow Paranormal FearsFollow Seven: Disturbing Chronicle StoriesJoin our Patreon for ad-free listening and more bonus content.Follow us on Instagram @mysteriousradioFollow us on TikTok mysteriousradioTikTok Follow us on Twitter @mysteriousradio Follow us on Pinterest pinterest.com/mysteriousradio Like us on Facebook Facebook.com/mysteriousradio

What's it like to serve out a prison sentence alongside your mom? At the Central California Women's Facility, a handful of mom-daughter combos are doing time together — some more harmoniously than others. We're grateful to Rosa, Ms. Li, Tina, and Ryan for sharing their stories with us.  This episode was scored with music by Antwan Williams, Rhashiyd Zinnamon, and David Jassy.Big thanks to Acting Warden Andes and Lt. Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Parker, Associate Warden Lewis, and Lt. Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show.Special thanks to Lt. Williams at the Central California Women's Facility for making our visits to the prison possible, and for her continued support of the show. Our fundraiser is almost over, and we still need 370 donors to help us reach our goal! And if you can become a monthly donor at $10 or more, we'll give you access to ad-free episodes and bonus EH+ content as a token of our thanks! Make your gift at on.prx.org/4d5WnCm. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. 

Live from inside San Quentin State Prison, in collaboration with God Behind Bars, Pastor Levi Lusko helps us answer the question, "where do we go from here?" Looking at Hebrews 3, we're learning it's never to late to write a new story, and today is the day to begin!

When he was growing up, gang life gave Larry confidence, purpose, and an identity. But after years behind bars, the affiliation lost its luster. He tells Earlonne about becoming Lala from the East Coast Crips, and the long road back to being Larry.Thanks to Larry Davis for talking to us for this episode.This episode was scored with music by David Jassy, Antwan Williams, Derrell Sadiq Davis, and Earlonne Woods.Big thanks to Acting Warden Andes and Lt. Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Parker, Associate Warden Lewis, and Lt. Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show.Support our team and get even more Ear Hustle by subscribing to Ear Hustle Plus today. Sign up at earhustlesq.com/plus or in the Apple Podcasts app. It's our spring fundraiser, and we're trying to reach 1,000 donors! Learn more and donate: on.prx.org/4d5WnCm Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. 

For our latest Catch a Kite episode, we're taking advantage of a new tool: the electronic tablets that recently became available in 400+ jails and prisons across the nation. Using their tablets, incarcerated Ear Hustlers from around the country responded to listener questions, including: What do people in prison hide from their families? And what's something that you can only learn from being in prison? Thanks to Alvin, at Muskegon Correctional Facility in Michigan; Silk, at Chautauqua County Jail in New York; Cortez, at Ashland County Jail in Ohio; Darrell, at Pruntytown Correctional Center in West Virginia; Alexis, at Pamunkey Regional Jail in Virginia; Owen, at North Central Regional Jail in West Virginia; Damian, at Neuse Correctional Institution in North Carolina; Chris, at Washington Correctional Center in Washington; Krista, at Leath Correctional Institution in South Carolina; Brandon, at Montana State Prison in Montana; Kelly, at Omaha Correctional Center in Nebraska; Demetrius, at Richard Handlon Correctional Facility in Michigan; Donald, at Two Rivers Correctional Facility in Oregon; Ruby, at Western Correctional Center for Women in North Carolina; and Andres, at Mount Olive Correctional Complex in West Virginia, for listening to Ear Hustle on their tablets and speaking with us for the episode. Thanks to Sophia, John, and Manuel from Los Angeles; Cameron from Boston; Gail from St. Augustine, Florida; and Erica from Centerville, Massachusetts, for calling in with their questions. Thanks also to John Timpone and Meghan Tobin of Edovo for helping us expand our Catch a Kite reach to people incarcerated across the nation.This episode was scored with music by Antwan Williams. As always, we're grateful to Lt. Berry at San Quentin State Prison for her support of the show. Support our team and get even more Ear Hustle by subscribing to Ear Hustle Plus today. Sign up at earhustlesq.com/plus or right in Apple Podcasts. Our spring fundraiser is here! Learn more and donate: on.prx.org/4d5WnCm Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. 

In honor of Mother's Day, some decidedly un-Hallmark-y stories about incarceration and motherhood. Thanks to Mary Behun, Reggie, and Kat for speaking with us for this episode. This episode was scored with music by David Jassy, Antwan Williams, Fernando Arruda, Dwight Krizman, Rhashiyd Zinnamon, and Earlonne Woods. Big thanks to Acting Warden Andes and Lt. Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Parker, Associate Warden Lewis, and Lt. Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show.Our spring fundraiser is here! Learn more and donate: on.prx.org/4d5WnCm Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. 

Inside prison, as well as out, some of us cling to stuff and some of us let go. In this episode: two cell-block neighbors engage in a gentle dispute, Tony attempts to Marie Kondo his future from inside prison, and Mesro won't have his keepsakes disrespected.Thanks to our colleagues and collaborators inside San Quentin — Carrington, Mesro, Sadiq, and Tony — for talking to us about their stuff, and to Tony's Uncle Eric for welcoming us into his home.  This episode was scored with music by David Jassy, Antwan Williams, E. Phil Phillips, Rhashiyd Zinnamon, Gregory Dixon, and Earlonne Woods.Big thanks to Acting Warden Andes and Lt. Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Parker, Associate Warden Lewis, and Lt. Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show.Support our team and get even more Ear Hustle by subscribing to Ear Hustle Plus today. Sign up at earhustlesq.com/plus or directly in Apple Podcasts. (And while you're there, leave us a review!)Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. 

Twelve years ago, Nigel asked San Quentin resident Greg Eskridge to write a list of everything he owned in prison. That much, Earlonne remembers. The rest of this episode is a surprise gift, from one Ear Hustle host to another. Thanks to Greg Eskridge for speaking and sharing his lists with us. This episode was scored with music by Rhashiyd Zinnamon, Derrell Sadiq Davis, Antwan Williams, David Jassy, and Earlonne Woods.Big thanks to Acting Warden Andes and Lt. Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Williams and Lt. Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show.Support our team and get even more Ear Hustle by subscribing to Ear Hustle Plus today. Sign up at earhustlesq.com/plus or directly in Apple Podcasts. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. 

A bucolic garden, six kinds of breakfast cereal, and around-the-clock bedside vigil: How one California prison is trying to mitigate the fears and unknowns of dying inside prison. Thanks to Joseph Bick, Michele DiThomas, Terrance Harris, Allan Hickman, Gerard Hite, Jerry Judson, Keith Knauf, Kenneth Langill, Jeff Maria, Earl Miller, Michael Powell, and Frederick Roberts for speaking to us for this episode. This episode was scored with music by Rhashiyd Zinnamon, Fernando Arruda, Antwan Williams, and Earlonne Woods. “Down The Hall” © 2022 Open Secret Music (ASCAP) – Administered by Bluewater Music Services Corp. Used By Permission. All Rights Reserved. Big thanks to Acting Warden Smith and Lt. Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Hill and Lt. Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. We're also grateful to Acting Warden Cueva and Lt. Gonzalez at the California Medical Facility for allowing our team to record inside the hospice. Support our team and get even more Ear Hustle by subscribing to Ear Hustle Plus today. Sign up at earhustlesq.com/plus or directly in Apple Podcasts. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX.

We've never based a whole episode on a poem before, but this one, by Sky, took us by surprise. It's both a record of longing for all the things she can't do in prison — sleep in a teepee, have a cookie jar, touch a rabbit — and a way of doing those things in her mind.  Big thanks to Acting Warden Andes and Lt. Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Williams and Lt. Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Support our team and get even more Ear Hustle by subscribing to Ear Hustle Plus today. Sign up at earhustlesq.com/plus or in Apple Podcasts by tapping on the "Subscribe" button.  Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. Find a full list of episode credits at earhustlesq.com.

In honor of our 100th episode (!), Ear Hustle revisits our very first one – “Cellies” – this time with a twist: Residents of the California Institution for Women tell us stories about “bunkies,” the good, the bad, and the…complicated. Big thanks to Acting Warden Oak Smith and Lt. Guim'Mara Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Molly Hill and Lt. William Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. Find a full list of episode credits at earhustlesq.com. Want one more way to celebrate Ear Hustle's 100th episode? Sign up for Ear Hustle Plus today to hear Earlonne and Nigel listening back to their first episode, “Cellies,” reflecting on what was going on behind the scenes when Ear Hustle first stepped into the world, and what's changed since then.

When she was in her 20s, Shanna was the victim of a violent attack. Ten years later, she's ready to talk about the experience and the “full-time job” of recovery. Big thanks to Acting Warden Oak Smith and Lt. Guim'Mara Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Molly Hill and Lt. William Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Can't get enough Ear Hustle? Sign up for Ear Hustle Plus, our new subscription service. You'll get ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, access to live chats with Ear Hustle and other listeners about the show, and more! earhustlesq.com/plus Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. Find a full list of episode credits at earhustlesq.com. Radiotopia's fall fundraiser is here! Donate today to support Ear Hustle. Thank you. https://on.prx.org/3s6RrL5

Not long ago, Nigel and Earlonne spent time at the largest women's prison in the world: The Central California Women's Facility. They spoke to five people about building a life in a tough environment and making it home. Show Notes: Radiotopia's fall fundraiser is here! Donate today to support Ear Hustle. Thank you! https://on.prx.org/3s6RrL5 Special thanks to Warden Anissa De La Cruz and Lt. Monique Williams for welcoming us to CCWF. Thanks also to Acting Warden Oak Smith and Lt. Guim'Mara Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Molly Hill and Lt. William Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. Find a full list of episode credits at earhustlesq.com.

Can a prison be haunted? And why are good ghost stories — inside or outside of prison — so hard to come by? The Ear Hustle team goes ghost hunting at San Quentin and the California Institution for Women. We're going on the road! Check out our upcoming tour dates at earhustlesq.com/tour. Can't get enough Ear Hustle? Sign up for Ear Hustle Plus, our new subscription service. You'll get ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, access to live chats with Ear Hustle and other listeners about the show, and more! earhustlesq.com/plus Big thanks to Acting Warden Oak Smith and Lt. Guim'Mara Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Molly Hill and Lt. William Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. Find a full list of episode credits at earhustlesq.com.

If San Quentin were a magazine, what would it sound like? Ear Hustle's new team inside – Sadiq, Steve, Tam, and the Two Tonys – deliver audio stories hot off the press, from the institution's popcorn craze to its new tablets and those weird-looking gazebos out on the yard. Big thanks to Acting Warden Oak Smith and Lt. Guim'Mara Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Molly Hill and Lt. William Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Thanks also to Katie Gilbert, Officer Wallis, and John Zeretzke at San Quentin. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. Find a full list of episode credits at earhustlesq.com.

Producer Rahsaan “New York” Thomas takes us inside the parole-ordered transitional housing he's been living in since getting out of prison. For many people, these residences are a godsend. For others, they're a frustrating limbo between prison and being truly free. Big thanks to Acting Warden Smith and Lt. Berry at San Quentin State Prison and Acting Warden Hill and Lt. Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. Find a full list of episode credits at earhustlesq.com.

Prisons weren't designed for older folks, and the California Institution for Women is no exception. Nigel and Earlonne pay a visit to CIW's Senior Center to hang out with a group of women aged 70 and up and hear their stories about aging inside. Big thanks to Acting Warden Oak Smith and Lt. Guim'Mara Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Molly Hill and Lt. William Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. Find a full list of episode credits at earhustlesq.com.

Inspired by the classic This American Life episode “24 Hours at the Golden Apple,” the Ear Hustle team documents one day in the life of San Quentin's lower yard, from Haka dancing to dominoes; gospel to geese; and weight-lifting to waiting to get out. Big thanks to Acting Warden Oak Smith and Lt. Guim'Mara Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Acting Warden Molly Hill and Lt. William Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. Find a full list of episode credits at earhustlesq.com.

In honor of Pride month, we're serving up some of our best stories about the LGBTQ community inside prison, including: a love story set out on the yard at San Quentin State Prison; two trans women on their journey from a men's prison to a women's prison, thanks to a new California law; and the first-ever Pride parade held inside a Norwegian prison. Big thanks to Warden Ron Broomfield and Lt. Guim'Mara Berry at San Quentin State Prison, and Warden Jennifer Core and Lt. William Newborg at the California Institution for Women for their support of the show. Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia, from PRX. Find a full list of episode credits at earhustlesq.com.