Podcast appearances and mentions of tom bullock

Join Brian Milner and McCaul Baggett as they explore the power of empathy and storytelling in successful Agile transformations. Learn McCaul's five-step approach to effective communication and discover strategies to overcome common pitfalls in organizational change. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian Milner sits down with McCaul Baggett, Chief Agile Officer at CAVU, to discuss the intricacies of communicating change within organizations. They delve into common pitfalls in Agile transformations and highlight the importance of empathy and storytelling in engaging teams. McCaul shares his five-step approach to effective communication, emphasizing the power of testimonials and spreading awareness. Tune in to gain valuable insights and practical tools for navigating and leading successful Agile transformations. Listen Now to Discover: [1:10] - Join Brian as he welcomes McCaul Baggett, Chief Agile Officer at CAVU and a master of Agile transformation, to delve into the secrets of successful Agile transformation. [3:15] - McCaul emphasizes the critical role of storytelling in engaging and guiding teams through the process of Agile transformation. [5:57] - Brian addresses a common challenge in Agile transformations: navigating the unknown and its impact on team dynamics. [8:01] - McCaul explains how effective communication and a compelling narrative can help teams grasp their value during a transformation. [10:40] - McCaul advocates for going beyond the basic 'why' by incorporating testimonial narratives to create more meaningful connections. [14:39] - Brian suggests using these tools to foster empathy, advocating for their use in both top-down and bottom-up approaches when initiating a transformation. [16:29] - Dive into Mike Cohn's book, Succeeding with Agile, for practical advice on navigating your transformation. Discover strategies for communication, overcoming resistance, and other key aspects of Agile success. [17:54] - Brian inquires about effective ways to connect with and engage resistant individuals within the team. [22:49] - Join McCaul and Brian as they discuss the importance of creating specific best practices that suit the unique needs of this particular team and organization. [28:07] - Brian shares a big thank you to McCaul for joining him on the show. [28:33] - Join Brian in attending Agile conferences to connect with and learn from Agile experts and peers, fostering valuable discussions and insights. [29:53] - If you’d like to continue this discussion, join the Agile Mentors Community. You get a year of free membership into that site by taking any class with Mountain Goat Software, such as CSM or CSPO. We'd love to see you in one of Mountain Goat Software's classes, you can find the schedule here. [30:35] - We invite you to subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast. Do you have feedback or a great idea for an episode of the show? Great! Just send us an email. References and resources mentioned in the show: McCaul Baggett Communicating Change Made Easy with McCaul Bagget and Tom Bullock Succeeding with Agile by Mike Cohn Agile 2024 Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Certified ScrumMaster® Training and Scrum Certification Certified Scrum Product Owner® Training Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. McCaul Baggett is the Chief Agile Officer at CAVU, specializing in Agile transformations and effective communication strategies. With a focus on empathy, storytelling, and practical tools, McCaul helps organizations navigate change and foster sustainable Agile practices. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors, we're back. This is another episode of the Agile Mentors podcast. I'm with you as always, Brian Milner. And today I have the one and only Mr. McCaul Baggett with us. Welcome in McCaul. McCaul Baggett (00:13) Hey, thanks Brian, really glad to be here. Brian (00:15) Very excited to have you. For those who aren't familiar with McCaul, McCaul is the chief agile officer at Cavu. He has been working in transformations for quite a long time doing some large-scale transformations at different organizations. One that he is allowed to publicly mention is John Deere, but there's others that he's been a part of as well. You know companies are funny that way. They don't always necessarily want you to publicize things for some reasons. I don't know why. McCaul Baggett (00:43) Yeah. Brian (00:44) We were joking about that earlier. But I wanted to have him call on because we were both at the Agile 2023 conference, and I saw him on the agenda, and it was one of those sessions I didn't get a chance to go to, unfortunately, but really thought it was an interesting topic. I wanted to have him come on and kind of chat with us a little bit about this. So his topic was about communicating change and communicating change in an easy way, you know, kind of making that an easy process. So let me start there with you, McCaul, on this is, what do people get wrong when they're going through a transformation and we make the decision to go through a big change in our organization? What are some of the common pitfalls organizations fall into when they make that decision? McCaul Baggett (01:34) Well, let me start by saying it wasn't me solely that was doing the talk. I did have some partners there with me. And if you look it up, you should definitely speak to them as well or look them up as well. Dana Dismukes is a transformation lead for Dell. Tom Bullock is the chief storyteller for Scrum Inc. And really the academics of the talk came out of Tom's brainchild. But through my work, I got a chance to apply it. And it was precisely because of this very issue, the ch- the- non-working approach that many organizations take to communicating about change. There's a tendency in a lot of change management structures to discuss the need for communication, but as Agilists, we don't inherently do a lot of study of the nature of communication. And so I would say probably the biggest, most common error that people in a transformation of any kind and most close to my experience in Agile transformations make in communicating about change is going about it from a way that is, from the perspective of trying to reassure their teams, their departments that this is something that has leadership endorsement by communicating from the top down. I mean, please forgive the hierarchical metaphor, but getting some senior leader to say, hey, this is gonna be great, you can do it, we're gonna do this. When in fact, the most effective way to communicate to someone, especially someone who's not fully bought in, is by telling them a story of someone who is like them, has experience like them that they can relate to. And that storytelling perspective is what we talk about in this talk, Communicating Change, maybe. Brian (03:16) Yeah, there's a lot just in there to unpack. I mean, just the idea, thinking about, I've talked with a lot of organizations and a lot of people have come through classes and stuff that I've talked with who are going through changes like this, but then they're not really even sure how much their leaders are on board with this. They just, they have some layer of management who says, yeah, this is what we're gonna do, but do the people at the top really feel that way? Do they even know what it is that we're doing? McCaul Baggett (03:34) Sure. I mean, that's even tougher. I would find it hard to even consider it a true transformation if you can't be sure your leaders are bought into it. But you're not wrong. It is stunning how often you get these folks that you run into and they say, my leadership may be willing to do this. I teach a lot of Scrum at Scale. And so we talk a lot about executive Metascrums and executive action teams and prescriptions about how involved the leader should be. And people will sort of stop and say, wait, you want a leader to meet about team obstacles every day? And I say, yeah, or however long those executives are willing to let their teams go without support to removing their obstacles. Like, what is it that they're doing that's more important than clearing the impediments for their teams? But that does tend to be the perspective is, I don't know if my leaders even bought into this change. That's tough. Brian (04:34) Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I think that speaks to some of the fundamental flaws, I think, that people have with transformations before you even get to communicating, right? Just do we know why we're here? Do we know what it is we're trying to do? Those kinds of things. I like to focus on the communication, though, here because communication is such a McCaul Baggett (04:46) Yeah, that's true. Brian (04:56) delicate beast. I mean, it just, you know, when you're trying to speak with another human, even if it's just within your team, you know, it's difficult because we're different personalities and we have different backgrounds and everything else, much less when you're talking about it over an entire organization. I would imagine, and you, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I would imagine that one of the biggest sources of kind of consternation or, you know, anxiety I think when these kinds of things happen is the unknown, just not really understanding how do I fit in and what does this mean for me. McCaul Baggett (05:33) Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Sometimes it's phrased that it's termed what's in it for me. And I think that's the wrong perspective to take. People aren't often necessarily, people are not always looking for some kind of payoff for the transformation. They don't need to know sort of what they get out of it. But I think that you really put your finger on a lot of the reason that we see trepidation with a transformation is because it implies that Brian (05:38) Mmm. McCaul Baggett (06:00) Business as it had been occurring before was not acceptable. What you'd been doing previously was not good enough. And now we need to get you to do it another way. That inherently sort of fundamentally starts with a position of questioning whether or not your position is stable. And that gets, you get some amygdala hijack stuff going on. You get the brain started worrying about existence, not just change. So you're right, contextualizing. Brian (06:26) Yeah. McCaul Baggett (06:29) your communication about this is really important. And I think taking a perspective of empathy and meeting especially resistance in a change environment, a changing environment, meeting resistance with an attempt to understand the perspective really fundamentally underpins any successful communication you're gonna have about change management in general, but communication in particular. Brian (06:52) What do you think about that, McCaul? I mean, if you're a leader in that kind of organization and you recognize this and you see, people are gonna, I'm gonna send people into a little bit of a panic, right? Because you're right, there's no way that I can hear that message, hey, we're gonna do things differently than the way that we've been doing them without kind of self-internalizing, well, that means that something I've been doing has not been acceptable, it's not been good enough, it's not been what the organization needs. How do you communicate that in a way to say, no, it's not you, right? It's kind of a process thing. It's not that you did anything wrong. It's that we found this is a better way of working. McCaul Baggett (07:30) Yeah, so I think starting with that fundamental basis of why this is occurring is really key. But even before you get to the communication about why, it's really important to figure out who it is you're speaking to. So going back to that sort of, that empathy piece, there is a need to get that communication about, okay, it's not that you did anything wrong. and here are the reasons why we're doing it, that is the message we're looking to communicate. But at a communication level, like understanding even how to begin that communication really requires us to take a step back so that we can consider the people we're telling that story to. So just to connect this to the topic that actually came up in the talk about how we do that communication, it's really fundamentally about, and just a quick aside about that talk. So in the Agile 2023 conference, we actually applied for a longer workshop, like 120 minutes, 160 minutes, one of the long time boxes. And they'd come back to us and said, why don't you do one of these 30-minute segments? So we really pared down a lot of the things that we wanted to say. And so to connect back to what really, what emerged was actually, it was actually probably a better talk than if we'd had a longer period of time to do it. We just, we had to cut everything until we could come back with just, Brian (08:36) Yeah. Hahaha. Mm. McCaul Baggett (08:58) the real good nuggets. And what stayed was this. In order to communicate effectively when you're going through any kind of change management process, first of all, having a change management process and a plan for how you're gonna manage that, that's your beginning. But to get a little bit more particular about how we communicate about that change, there is one technique which we agreed was probably the thing to focus on so that it would be most universally helpful. in any stage of a transformation that was going on. And that was creating a, finding a way to create a narrative, a personal narrative that could connect to the various people that you're trying to connect to, right? So to create a testimonial. And so we spent our time in that talk discussing how to really get a useful testimonial. And then once you've... got that how to do something useful with it. And we outline kind of five steps for how to think about this. Brian, tell me if I'm getting too deep or you kind of want to... Okay, cool. And I don't know that these are the only five steps. We try to make it easy to remember. The takeaways that we were trying to give were, you have to be first thoughtful about what it takes to make a compelling testimonial. So this is where I mean, you can't start with why. Brian (10:00) No, no, this is awesome. Go for it. McCaul Baggett (10:21) we're doing this, you have to start with who you're speaking to about why. Because the why shifts. If you're speaking to stakeholders, there's one why. And if you're speaking to the organization, to your employees, to the people that are doing the work, it's not that the why is different, but the way that you talk about it may be different. So once you know what it's going to take to make the testimonial, the next step would be to think about how you can work. how you can set yourself up ahead of time to maximize the potential to make an impact with your audience, to plan. how you're gonna get the story, the testimonial that's gonna resonate. Which is the story that I wanna tell? So fundamentally what we're doing here is we're assuming that, testimonial, this is only one way to communicate, but it's a fairly useful one universally. If you're going to try to get that testimonial, what are the questions that are gonna be useful to the who that you've identified ahead of time? What is the story you need to find to tell? Then step three is actually. having the conversation. So you've already done a lot of pre-work ahead of time before you even begin the process of the discussion. And then once you've started the discussion, once you've got it, using that testimonial, which is typically recorded kind of like this, grounding that in a way that doesn't sound overly positive and really connects with reality, and then using what you've got to spread that awareness as broadly as possible. So five steps. Know, think, get. ground and grow. I don't know if that's a useful mnemonic of any kind, but that's what we came up with. Brian (11:59) That's awesome. No, like I said, easy to remember. Just a few things to kind of keep in mind there. Yeah, I love the concept of telling it as a story, that we're not just, because that makes it much easier for me to see myself then fitting in there. Like we talked about earlier, right? If I have a fear of, oh my gosh, does this mean that I'm gonna lose my job? Does this mean that I'm gonna have to... McCaul Baggett (12:03) Yeah, just five steps. Brian (12:24) now do something that's very different from what I've been trained for or what I'm used to doing or what I wanna do as a career, telling it as a story can kind of allow me to see myself in the story. McCaul Baggett (12:37) You are exactly right. Not only does it allow you to do that, we as humans are wired to do that very thing. We do it all the time. In fact, when you're listening to a podcast like this, you'll often sort of have the sense that you're sitting at the table, thinking through, like you're literally exercising pathways in your brain as if you were participating in the conversation. And that direct involvement allows you to mitigate some of the inherent resistance that you. that you find, that amygdala hijack, that fight or flight response is not present because you're following along in a story, hopefully about a successful element of the transformation. So you really engage that piece right from the very beginning. Brian (13:20) Yeah, I love this and understand to the listeners as well, right? I mean, we're speaking at like a neuroscience level here and trying to understand that, you know, the preparation that needs to be made so that, uh, like McCaul is saying, there's not that amygdala hijack going on of just saying, uh, oh my gosh, I'm panicked. I can't get past this panic. Uh, you know, in my, that's going on in my head that has to be stripped away. That has to be. resolved so that now I can start to learn, now I can start to see and form, like you said, the new pathways. And that is, you know, physically what's going on. We're forming new connections in our brain to say, oh, I've never seen it this way, but let me try to make this connection and see it a different way. McCaul Baggett (14:10) Yeah, not only is it important to do that, we as humans, now I'm stepping a little far beyond my training, so I'll be careful. My understanding is that fight or flight response really lives in an entirely different system, in the limbic system of the brain, much earlier part of the brain. And in order to engage the neocortex at all, or in any significant way to create those Brian (14:21) Ha ha ha. McCaul Baggett (14:39) pathways to be able to see a perspective of the other than our own, we have to kind of dampen that limbic response, that fight or flight. Will I, won't I have a means to feed myself beyond this space? Am I safe before we can start to begin that conversation, to begin that connection with someone we want to connect to? Brian (14:59) Absolutely. And I think this applies not only, I mean, we started in kind of approaching this from sort of a high level top down, like you said earlier. But I think it applies even if you're a Scrum Master, or maybe you're part of a small group in the organization. Maybe you are in an organization that's not agile in any way, but you've gotten permission to have a pilot, to just have a pilot team. McCaul Baggett (15:08) Sure. Brian (15:28) and your desire is to grow this in the organization, or maybe they're doing it poorly and you wanted to have one pilot team that does it the right way so you can start to spread this out to other places. All this applies, I think, to you as well because you're gonna be communicating this and you're gonna encounter the same resistances, right? You're gonna have the same kind of skepticism. You're gonna have the same kind of possibility have someone have amygdala hijacks going on thinking, Oh my God, what's this guy doing? What's this woman doing? Why is she trying to make these big changes in the organization? Is she gonna try to change my job? Yeah, am I under threat? So while we started top down, I think it applies bottom up as well. They're all principles I think we have to think through before we even start to try to communicate with this. McCaul Baggett (16:05) Yeah, am I under threat? Oh, absolutely. I mean, any good scrum master is gonna be thinking and hopefully practicing their ability to deal with any tense conversation. And so that limbic engagement, that epinephrine and adrenaline start coursing through the brain. And you can see it in many people when you're looking at group dynamics, regardless of large or small group dynamics, but any group. that shutdown of the ability to really process new information and assimilate it, you have to start by working past the threat. You have to get people beyond that sort of defensive place before the conversation can even begin. Yeah, I agree. Brian (17:01) Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, in how we're talking about this, I kind of had this one scenario in mind I wanted to kind of run by you because I know I've encountered this before. I know, you know, I've encountered this in classes before. So I'm curious kind of how this communication approach would kind of adjust for this kind of individual. But what about the person who just sort of is crossing their arms McCaul Baggett (17:11) Sure, hit me. Brian (17:28) And they kind of take the approach of, ah, this is a fad. It's not so much as an active, hey, I'm gonna really counteract you and go against you to try to dispreview, but I'm just gonna, you know, I'm not budging. I'm gonna stay here, because I know this is a fad and it's gonna change eventually back to the way I wanna do things. So you do whatever you wanna do, but you know, I'm not gonna get on board with you because. I've seen lots of things come and go on this is just another McCaul Baggett (17:59) I think that takes a couple of forms. Certainly some of those, and particularly when I've been asked by an organization to come and do training, you get a lot more of those because, nope, they didn't raise their hand to come and join a public class or something. I think there's really two significant flavors of that engagement. One is, as you described, someone who's just sort of like passively waiting for this to sort of blow on by. And that's a lot more tricky than the one that's actively pushing back. By far, I prefer someone who's willing to stand up and say, this is not going to work here and here are the reasons why. Because to come into the space of someone who is not choosing that engagement is inherently threatening. So you've picked a very challenging person to get through to, um, because directly calling them out and being like, Hey, Brian, you've been really quiet. What do you think of what's going on? when they were not inclined to share that, sort of already starts to engage that, am I prepared to risk saying out loud what I think is gonna happen? And it also, it could inherit, it could just by the nature of asking them to speak out loud that they don't believe in what's going on around them, sets them apart from the rest of the group and could mean that makes them something of a target if they don't feel like their culture is a safe place to speak. So, That is your problem Often I have found that a testimonial based approach, one where you can tell someone's stories about someone in a similar position, not stories about why this is going to work from a leadership position, but a testimonial based communication campaign is one of the best ways to reach folks just like this. You don't need to directly address them. You don't need to confront them. It's fine. If you're not, if you're not buying this, that's okay. Why don't I tell you about where it's happened elsewhere? And frankly, that thing is one of the things that training in person used to be so great for, because you could stand away and kind of watch these people who weren't necessarily bought in, sit back and just study what was going on in front of them. It wasn't being forced on them. They could just sort of watch their teams and you'd do something silly like. Brian (19:58) Yeah. McCaul Baggett (20:17) play any number of the Agile games that are meant to demonstrate things like small batch processing or teaming, right? Team dynamics and that joy that human collaboration and competition can bring in a really small scale in a very short amount of time and like a magic trick you could be like was that fun? Was folding these paper airplanes and throwing them across the room fun? And they'd be like yeah it was fun it's paper airplanes whatever I'm not working and then you could take a step back and say okay Was it fun because you just love folding paper airplanes or was it fun because you were making connections with people that you don't get to do in your daily job? And just sort of, again, the story here is, look what's over there. Look what this says about the nature of communication. It's not testimonial based per se, but it is lighting that fire, that inspiration that I always loved about training. And it's not just in person, but it really... I do miss that about in-person training because you could really connect really well. Brian (21:19) Yeah, I mean, we're talking about communication in general and we can't escape the Agile Manifesto comment about it. It's best done in person face to face, right? So it doesn't mean you can't in another way, it just means it's best that way and it works easiest that way, right? Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah, I just wanted to just, go ahead. McCaul Baggett (21:28) That's right. That's right. I'm sorry. Not to go too far off topic, though, but to that very point, we see this request of many executives later, the return to the office movement being another form of, is that the best way to communicate? Yeah, it is. Is it the only way to communicate? Should we be seeking that to the detriment of our work forces at scale? And there are many reasons that people are choosing to encourage their. employees to come back to the office. But I think part of that is because leadership is also far easier in person. So we're missing some opportunities for leadership to understand how to lead remote teams and may have caused that sort of same challenge. Anyway, another topic. Brian (22:23) No, no, I agree. And I think that part of that as well is just kind of the general whole. I've talked about this a couple of times in the podcast where we, we seem to be stuck in a cycle of trying to find out what is the way to do something versus what is the way for this team, for this organization to do something. There's lots of data out there that we can get, can inform us. Just like if I'm a product owner. There's lots of data that can inform me about the market, but ultimately I've got to make the call about what's right for us to do next. Same thing with the organization, same thing with the team. What's going to work in this instance? McCaul Baggett (23:03) Absolutely. It's probably one of the biggest challenges that I think, uh, when we see transformations, not even transformations, when we see an agile, um, enthusiast really go off track and good. I did it for sure when I was a new scrum master. Like this is how the scrum guide says we're supposed to do things and we're not doing these particular things. We need to do scrum the right way. that sort of the willingness to take a step back and say, well, there are a lot of better practices. Is there a best practice in our case that is true? Actually, the challenge is not, is there a better practice in all cases? And almost certainly not, but there may be a better practice in our case, even a best practice in our case, but you have to be willing to let go of the dogma of this is the way it's meant to be, and instead seeking, seeking to be informed by these, yes, science-based studied practices. It is better to be in person, but let's not fire all our remote employees. Let's, let's figure out another way or let's make teams that can figure out other ways to do it. Brian (24:11) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're in an interesting time, I think, as far as that's concerned, because like you said, it's the dogma, I think, of pragmatism and what's gonna work best in this scenario. Yeah, I struggle a lot in classes, even, when people will bring up certain topics, to ever say always, that this is always, it should always be this way. McCaul Baggett (24:22) Yes. Yes. Brian (24:36) Because I don't know, I frequently will say things like, my experience has been, what I have seen is this, but that's just my experience. And that's a limited set of experiences. You have to line that up against what you've experienced and what your organization is going through and say, hey, does this sound similar? Are we seeing those same things? Are we not seeing those same things? There are best practices. There are some things that we could say, yes, this... And a lot of situations will work best in this way, but not all. And that's where it takes experience. That's where it takes somebody who's been there before to know. McCaul Baggett (25:16) Well, yeah, and a lot of this grew up in a very particular environment, right? So Agile practices, many of the ones that we've adopted, grew up through software, and through software in North America. So one of the things that I've been passionate about, and one of the reasons that I've pursued the career that I have is because a lot of the Agile community looks like you and me, right? So if you take into account not only are these the, quote, Brian (25:29) Ha ha. McCaul Baggett (25:43) but it's for teams that tend to look like you and me, tend to live in North America, and tend to be working on software. And that's such a narrow area that we're foolish to assume that such a thing as best practices have been codified yet. Brian (25:58) Yeah, no, and please, for the listeners, don't get me wrong because if you listen to the show, you know I'm a geek for the data. And I love being able to have really hard scientific data that you can look at and say, hey, studies show that this is how you do this, but you gotta be cautious about asking, was that a rigorous scientific actual study or was this just an internet sampling? McCaul Baggett (26:13) Yes. Brian (26:26) That's not a scientific study. That's just kind of gathering people together and saying, hey, if this group of people who choose to respond to this, what do they think about something versus something else? But you're absolutely right. You have to understand the basis of where this comes from. And the basis of where we get a lot of our stuff is people who look like you and me, who have been working in the software industry for kind of the time we've been working in the software industry. So things have changed. McCaul Baggett (26:50) Yeah. Brian (26:53) cultures change, cultures bring different dynamics into things. And what works for my team of five, six developers based here in Dallas, Texas, is going to be very different from my team that I have five people in India and three people here, or even all the team is in India, or all the team is in Malaysia, or all the team is in Saudi Arabia or Ireland. I've worked with teams all over Israel. McCaul Baggett (27:09) Yes. Brian (27:23) You work with teams in different cultures and you have to understand what the playbook I used for that last team ain't gonna work for this next one because they're different people. McCaul Baggett (27:32) I heard the term coined radical pragmatism. It was, JJ Sutherland said it. And it was, it is precisely what we should be shooting for. Radical pragmatism informed by the best data, informed by the best science, and then immediately thrown away when it's not applicable to the situation we're in. Yes, these are the ladder, the rungs, the steps to head in the direction we need to be headed, probably, but let's evaluate them for ourselves and reevaluate. Brian (28:02) Yeah, if you're gonna go buy a car, you're gonna do your research, you're gonna figure out what gets the best gas mileage, blah, right, all this stuff. But then you're gonna get on the line, you're gonna test drive and go, I just like the way this feels. Ha, ha, ha. McCaul Baggett (28:12) That's right, test drive the car, yes, for sure. Brian (28:16) Awesome. Well, this has been a great conversation. I really have enjoyed having you on, McCaul. And yeah, thank you for kind of sharing kind of some of the wisdom in there from the talk. I know we, you know, the talk was not long and we have not long to kind of dissect stuff here in our podcast, but I appreciate you making time to share with us. McCaul Baggett (28:36) Absolutely, Brian, this is a pleasure. And if you ever need somebody to shoot the breeze with again, give me a call. Brian (28:42) I will take you up on that. McCaul Baggett (28:43) Thanks.

Bad news for brunch lovers, with some food joints claiming egg supplies are dwindling.Bakeries and restaurants are apparently having to lower their usage. Bakehouse on Bond owner, Tom Bullock, says it's been a frustrating six months. "Egg powder's playing a part in the actual baking in some products, mostly bread-based products like brioche, etc." The Poultry Industry Association's Michael Brooks says there was a low point in February, but that's bouncing back. "I'm really keen to talk to the wholesalers and to the Bakery Association and see what we can do to address this." LISTEN ABOVE    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

June 19th, or Juneteenth as it's known, is a recognised holiday in the US, commemorating the emancipation of enslaved African Americans. With that in mind, we're focusing on some of the many talented Black voices and stories in the drinks world – past and present, home and away – that we feel people need to know more about.Such as our two chosen products: Uncle Nearest and its 1884 Small Batch Whiskey from Tennessee and One True Maverick, a triple-distilled, premium vodka from south London. And our book choice, which sees us rewinding back to the past and delving into the first first cocktail book written by a Black bartender: The Ideal Bartender, first published in 1917 and written by Tom Bullock. As for black-owned bars we've gone more contemporary, heading to Sly Augustin's award-winning Trailer Happiness in Notting Hill.Last but by no means least, our interviewee is Tamika Hall, author of Black Mixcellence, a book that celebrates the movers and shakers of Black bartending. Hear about the stories she was most inspired by, the bartenders whose recipes are featured and the importance of Juneteenth.What we're mixing:V & TeaseRecipe kindly supplied by ms franky marshall1.5oz (44ml) Dry Vermouth*1.5oz (44ml) Bianco Vermouth*2 oz (60ml) good quality dry Tonic WaterMethod:Using a jigger, add vermouths to an ice-filled Rocks glass. Measure and add tonic water.Using the large end of a melon baller or teaspoon, add one scoop of lemon sorbet (such as Häagen-Dazs) to the glass.Stir once. Garnish with a fresh rosemary sprig. Optional: Add 1 drop of chilli oil to the top of the sorbet.*Franky's tip: Herbaceous vermouths work best for this recipe, especially for the Bianco.For details of the people, products and places featured in this week's episode, please find links to their websites below:Colin Asare-AppiahOne True MaverickTamika Hall/Black MixcellenceThe Ideal Bartender by Tom BullockTrailer HappinessUncle NearestThe Cocktail Lovers theme music is by Travis ‘T-Bone' WatsonEdited by Christian Fox Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's February, and we are in Black History Month, technically still in a pandemic, so wear a mask and get vaxxed.   A shout-out to one of the first renowned African American bartenders Tom Bullock. He bartended at the the St. Louis Country Club. Tom is responsible for about 150 cocktail recipes, and he wrote a guidebook that contained these recipes  - the Ideal Bartender, which was Published in 1917. The book has now been republished. Thank you, Tom Bullock, for contributing to the bartending world.  My first international guest, Bonnie Awesu! All the way from London. I met Bonnie when she lived in San Francisco. We both worked at this disgusting restaurant and bar in the Mission neighborhood. The restaurant is Cha Cha Cha - which is no longer there. We reminisce about working together and discussing lockdown in the UK and wage theft. This episode is brought to you by Descript. Try Descript now! Descript Check out my site - Traci Ramos The Socials; Instagram Twitter   #blackhistorymonth #tombullock #idealbartender #podcasters #sanfrancisco #london #pandemic #wagetheft #rats #cockroaches #missiondistrict #mannersmatter #sangria #smallplates #friendscatchingup        

Greetings Glocal Citizens! This week we have Part 2 of the Black Mixcellence duet. Ghanaian-Brit Colin Asare-Appiah joins me to talk the history of the term “mixology,” his journey from bar hand to head of Trade Director of Multi-Cultural and LGBTQ+ Advocacy at one of the world's leading spirit bands--Bacardi, and the importance of getting involved. Colin has worked with numerous spirit brands, celebrity chefs, cocktail bars and industry experts across the globe. He starred in the “The Cocktail Kings” on the DISCOVERY Channel where he travelled around the world creating bespoke cocktails to reflect their destinations. In his current role, Colin oversees fostering brand advocacy for the Bacardi USA Brand Portfolio. His expertise and spirits knowledge have been featured in Imbibe, Complex, WSJ, TIME and Cocktail Lovers Magazine to name a few. If you haven't bought the book yet, what are you waiting for? #GetInvolvedBruv! Get yours here (https://a.co/d/faL7ioF). Where to find Colin? On LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/colin-asare-appiah-4890854/) On Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/cocktailcolin/?hl=en) On Twitter (https://twitter.com/cocktailcolin) On Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/cocktailcolin/) What's Colin reading? The Real Pepsi Challenge: The Inspirational Story of Breaking the Color Barrier in American Business (https://a.co/d/5AHlJK7) by Stephanie Capparell The Good Immigrant: 26 Writers Reflect on America (https://a.co/d/eheSUz2) by Nikesh Shukl Natives (http://%22%E2%80%8C%22) by Akala (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akala_(rapper)) Afro-Vegan Afro-Vegan: Farm-Fresh African, Caribbean, and Southern Flavors Remixed (https://a.co/d/3XyYSvc) by Bryant Terry The cooking Gene (https://thecookinggene.com) by Michael W. Twitty Other topics of interest: About celebrity chef, Jamie Oliver (https://www.jamieoliver.com) Douglas Ankrah (https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/2681/people/douglas-ankrah) and the Porn Star Martini (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porn_star_martini) The LAB (https://www.barlabacademy.com) About sobolo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roselle_juice) Cocktail Kings (https://press.discovery.com/emea/dtl/programs/cocktail-kings/) About the BAFTA Awards (https://www.bafta.org) Tales of the Cocktail (https://talesofthecocktail.org) Tom Bullock (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Bullock) Caperitif (https://tomatom.com/a-a-badenhorst-caperitif/) High on the Hog (https://www.amazon.com/High-Hog-Culinary-Journey-America/dp/1608194507) Cocktails: Shaken & Stirred (https://a.co/d/8QXoq92) Ariel Contreras-Fox (https://screenrant.com/hells-kitchen-ariel-contreras-fox-career-family-facts/) The Howard Theatre (https://www.thehowardtheatre.com/legacy/) Ian Burrell (https://ianrumburrell.com) Front/Back (https://www.frontbackaccra.com) in Accra Lagos Cocktail Week (https://lagoscocktail.com) 50th Anniversary of Hip Hop (https://the50thanniversaryofhip-hop.com) About Julep Cocktails (https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/1562/cocktails/julep-cocktails) About Ashtin Berry (https://www.radxc.com/about) Special Guest: Colin Asare-Appiah.

This week, Tony and Fingers reviewed the Azul y Oro Cigar by Crowned Heads and Tom Bullock's Burnt Orange Bourbon. Tony Katz and Fingers Malloy (http://eatdrinksmokeshow.com) host Eat! Drink! Smoke! (http://facebook.com/eatdrinksmoke) recorded live at Blend Bar Cigar (http://blendbarcigar.com) in Indianapolis, IN. It is almost Big Game weekend! That means people will be throwing football parties. There are things to consider when throwing a Big Game party; What makes for a great party food/snack? If you order pizza, is pineapple an acceptable topping? Wait, is it even worth it to host a party in the first place? Other topics discussed include; Frontier Airlines has launched an all-you-can-fly summer pass. Ozzy Osbourne cancels all shows, and says his touring career is over. The ‘Dr. Phil' show is ending after more than two decades on the air. All that and much more on episode 223 of Eat Drink Smoke. More on the Azul y Oro cigar; Size 6x50 Wrapper Ecuadorian Habano Binder Nicaraguan Filler Nicaraguan & Dominican Republic Follow Eat! Drink! Smoke! Twitter: https://twitter.com/GoEatDrinkSmoke | @GoEatDrinkSmoke Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/eatdrinksmoke | @eatdrinksmoke IG: https://www.instagram.com/eatdrinksmokepodcast | @EatDrinkSmokePodcast The Podcast is Free! Click Below! On Apple Podcasts (http://bit.ly/eatdrinksmoke) On Amazon Music (https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/09697f78-947d-4008-92f6-18f6b241774a/Eat-Drink-Smoke) On Stitcher (https://www.stitcher.com/show/eat-drink-smoke) On Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/6Qf6qSmnpb5ctSMEtaB6lp)

Greetings Glocal Citizens! This week I have the first of a “spirited” two-part conversation with the authors of Black Mixcellence--Cuban-Jamaican-American writer, Tamika Hall and another fellow countryman, Ghanaian mixologist, Colin Asare-Appiah. First up is Tamika who is is a mom, freelance writer & content strategy manager. She has created editorial content and marketing strategies for The Vitamin Shoppe, Mass Appeal, The Examiner, Mommynoire/MadameNoire, stupidDOPE.com, ICONIX, and Yellowbrick.co. She's written branded content for a variety of brands including Bacardi, Maker's Mark, PepsiCo, Anheusur-Busch, and Viniq. in addition to her commercial portfolio, she co-created the curriculum for the Hospitality and Tourism Industry Essentials online course with NYU's Jonathan Tisch Center of Hospitality and was the winner of the 2021 Budweiser Hashtag Sports Award for Black Storytelling honoring her work on the pilot program for The Sneaker Essentials K-12 initiative. I had a wonderful time getting to know more about Tamika and her explorations of black culture plus some of her inspirations. I look forward to sharing more insights on the global impact of the spirit industry on cultures across diasporas in Part 2 with Colin. Where to find Tamika? Buy Black Mixcellence! (https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/688061/black-mixcellence-by-tamika-hall/) On LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ladyblogga/) On Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/ladyblogga/?hl=en) On Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/thaLadyBlogga) What's Tamika reading? Will (https://a.co/d/3MeSxOm) by Will Smith The Four Agreements (https://a.co/d/ghIrHXw) by don Miguel Ruiz Sometimes I Trip on How Happy we Could (https://a.co/d/3n4ispD) Be by Nichole Perkins Freedom is a Constant Struggle (https://a.co/d/cPSjgMi) by Angela Davis All About Love (https://a.co/d/3y5jgUJ) by Bell Hooks What's Tamika watching? Sex and the City (https://www.hbo.com/sex-and-the-city) New York Undercover (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Undercover) Works by Spike Lee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Lee) What's Tamika listening to? Deep Purple (https://deeppurple.com) Teddy Pendergrass (https://teddypendergrassofficial.com) Prince (https://www.prince.com) Other topics of interest: Sylvia's Soul Food Restaurant (https://sylviasrestaurant.com) Women's Day Magazine (https://www.womansday.com/about/a6107/about-about-us/) Nkiru Books (https://kweliclub.com/collections/book-store) Black Wall Street (https://daily.jstor.org/the-devastation-of-black-wall-street/) Tom Bullock (https://punchdrink.com/articles/tom-bollock-and-the-forgotten-legacy-of-african-american-bartenders/) Special Guest: Tamika Hall.

This is the fifth episode in our series on accountability in Ukraine. Following on from our initial exploration into the Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) world, we delve deeper into the technical details of OSINT and its strategic effects with Tom Bullock, a Technical Intelligence Analyst. Tom is a Senior Technical Intelligence Analyst with Atreides, a software development company specializing in big data. Previously, he worked as a Senior OSINT Analyst with Janes, a global agency for open-source defence intelligence. Tom also published with Janes Defence Weekly and Janes Intelligence Review.  Tom has been involved in tracking military developments in Ukraine since the beginning of the conflict. Today, he reflects on the issues that he's observed so far. Additional Resources Learn more about the employment of OSINT through the Line of Actual Control and Bellingcat. 

Can we move away from caste to create a more equitable society? How do we understand racism by looking at caste and class?    Pull up a seat and join us for a special roundtable episode with the Lagralane Team.    Using the book Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents, by Isabel Wilkerson as a source of exploration, we help define what caste is, and discuss how race has become the basis of our caste system in the United States. We also talk about how caste affects each of us personally – and what we can do to bring about meaningful change.    Through the lens of our multi-ethnic and multi-generational Lagralane Team, we seek to answer the question: can we move away from caste to create a more equitable society?   How can we be the guardians of truth?   Our team has a myriad of perspectives rooted in being adopted, Black, Asian, White, mixed-race, male, female, fluid and beyond … we are representative of America and we have also lived the experiences presented in Caste. We know first-hand that we're all living in a time of discontent created by generations before us. While sipping The Comeuppance cocktail, knowing the task before us is huge, we also ask how can we make change? How can we live today so that healing can begin for so many? How do we share the task of being guardians of truth?    For more spirited discussions, make sure to subscribe to the podcast. And if you've enjoyed thinking and cocktailing along with us, we'd love for you to leave us a review.  Cheers … and Please Drink Responsibly!   Links:   Guests: The Lagralane Team (in alphabetical order)   Peppur Chambers-Soraci -  www.penandpeppur.com  https://www.instagram.com/peppurthehotone/   AJ Dinsmore -  https://writers.coverfly.com/profile/Amanda-Joy-Dinsmore https://www.instagram.com/aj.dinsmore   Courtney Oliphant -  https://www.linkedin.com/in/courtney-oliphant-6546818a/ https://www.instagram.com/cori_anne92/?hl=en,    Matthew Soraci -  www.lagralane.com https://www.facebook.com/matthew.soraci Mentions: Caste:The Origins of Our Discontents by Isabel Wilkerson  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/653196/caste-oprahs-book-club-by-isabel-wilkerson/   The Gilded Age https://www.hbo.com/the-gilded-age   The Myth of the Model Minority: Asian Americans Facing Racism by Rosalind S. Chou, Joe R. Feagin https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-myth-of-the-model-minority-rosalind-s-chou/1124310184 Model Minority Myth https://www.learningforjustice.org/magazine/what-is-the-model-minority-myth   How the Word is Passed: A Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America by Clint Smith https://www.littlebrown.com/titles/clint-smith/how-the-word-is-passed/9780316492935/   Belonging - Ben McBride http://www.benmcbride.com/   The Ideal Bartender by Tom Bullock https://punchdrink.com/articles/tom-bollock-and-the-forgotten-legacy-of-african-american-bartenders/ https://euvs-vintage-cocktail-books.cld.bz/1917-The-Ideal-Bartender-by-Tom-Bullock/IV/ Additional Links + Special thanks to: Podcast Haven - https://thepodcasthaven.com/ Liam E. Allen (original music) - @Liamea97   Cocktail Recipe: The Comeuppance Jason renamed the Bizzy Izzy to “The Comeuppance” to fit the conversation around Caste in this episode. Although many believe it is “un-American” to challenge hateful and hurtful tropes or to demand reparations from the past 250+ years, that is exactly what we should be doing right now.  The Bizzy Izzy is a classic drink by an African American bartender in St. Louis from 100 years ago named Tom Bullock, who included this cocktail in his book, “The Ideal Bartender.”   1oz fresh pineapple juice (Dole or fresh) 1oz sherry (Lustau) 1 oz  templeton rye whiskey (Templeton) ¾ oz fresh lemon juice ¾ simple syrup  A couple dashes (or more) of angostura bitters  1 oz chilled club soda  Lemon wheel garnish   Shake and pour into a highball glass. 

Happy Black History Month! To celebrate, we wanted to talk about some unsung heros in our history and we had to do it the 'ASAAS' way which means we Sip while we share! First up, we talked about Lusia "Lucy" Harris, who is the 1st woman drafted into the NBA. Next up, we discussed Dr. Helen Jackson, a true unknown hero who chose to give up an astronaut candidacy to homeschool her children and help legalize homeschool programs. We did some research on the history of Black bartenders and the first known/recorded Black bartender Mr. Tom Bullock. The highlight was finally being able to talk about one of Jame's favorite cowboys Bass Reeves, the first black deputy U.S. marshal west of the Mississippi River. So much history we didn't know about but love learning about! Cheers!The Sip: NY Whiskey Sour & The Shot: Kinky Shirley Temple

In our first episode, co-hosts Tom Bullock and Bobby Woods explore a deceptively simple question that can differentiate a successful organization from one that is just treading water - or worse.

This episode is also available as a blog post: http://janeammeson.blog/2021/06/20/the-ideal-bartender/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/jane-ammeson/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/jane-ammeson/support

It can be confusing to learn about different blood group systems. Tom Bullock, consultant clinical scientist at NHSBT, tells Suzy the characteristic features of each. Part 2 - other clinically relevant blood group systems.

HONORING BLACK MIXOLOGISTS & THE EVOLUTION OF ICE Modern Mixology would not be where it is today without Black & African American bartenders. While the question still stands whether they were defining trends or refining them, one thing we do know is that we have one of the truly American cocktails, The Mint Julep, because of Jasper Crouch, Tom Bullock, Jim Cook, John Dabney, and many more. These men, some slaves, former slaves, and free; pioneered the art of catering, cuisine, and mixology in the face of impossible odds & pandering to the whims of the power structure at the time. We honor these men & more than likely also Black women for their contribution to modern mixology and the Mint Julep we know and love today. In this episode, Alexa & Mia cover the evolution of ice as a commodity, how it shifted cocktail culture, and the Black & African American Bartenders who set trends and changed a countries cocktail culture to what we know today. Black History IS American History In this episode we quote heavily from The Daily Beast Article "The Lost African-American Bartenders who Created the Cocktail" by David Wondrich. Drink History is hosted by Alexa Wilkinson & Mia Fio Rito. Go to drinkhistorypodcast.com to learn more about upcoming episodes and cocktail recipes... and don't forget to smash that subscribe button! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/drinkhistory/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/drinkhistory/support

It can be confusing to learn about different blood group systems. Tom Bullock, consultant clinical scientist at NHSBT, tells Suzy the characteristic features of each. Part 1 - fundamentals of antibody screening and the Rh blood group system.

Content warning: police brutality and anti-Black violence. Before you can sue a police officer under Section 1983, you have to pass a test—essentially demonstrating that your claim is good enough to proceed. It used to be that this test had four seemingly simple parts. But then Chief Justice Rehnquist came along. And the question is this—was William Rehnquist a reasonable man? Drinks: The Baldy and Blood Hound as originally created by Tom Bullock, the first Black author of a cocktail book. His book, The Ideal Bartender, is available for purchase in various reprints or for free via Project Gutenberg. Further reading for this episode: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-1989-supreme-court-ruling-is-unintentionally-providing-cover-for-police-brutality/2020/06/08/91cc7b0c-a9a7-11ea-94d2-d7bc43b26bf9_story.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/colorado-fleeing-felon-rule.html Justice for Elijah McClain Backstory Sign the petition Resource for donating and contacting Colorado officials If you're new to the fight for racial and economic justice, or if you're looking for reading material, places to donate, and materials with which to educate yourself, please see below. Opportunities for White People in the Fight for Racial Justice Where to Donate Black Lives Matter What You Can Do (Megathread) A Guide to Allyship and Why "All Cops Are Bastards" How to Support During the Black Lives Matter Movement Fighting Anti-Blackness Resource List (Harvard University) Non-Optical Accompliceship Toolkit --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/drunklawschool/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/drunklawschool/support

Hello beautiful beautiful people! We're back! Season two is here and what a season it is. We're thrilled to start of 2020 talking about the books that messed us all the way up in 2019 and to chat with the inimitable Jericho Brown about the South, rhyme, and why we write at all.   Jericho Brown is the recipient of fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation, the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard, and the National Endowment for the Arts, and he is the winner of the Whiting Writer's Award. Brown's first book, Please (New Issues 2008), won the American Book Award. His second book, The New Testament (Copper Canyon 2014), won the Anisfield-Wolf Book Award. His third collection is The Tradition (Copper Canyon 2019). His poems have appeared in The Bennington Review, Buzzfeed, Fence, jubilat, The New Republic, The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Paris Review, TIME magazine, and several volumes of The Best American Poetry. He is an associate professor and the director of the Creative Writing Program at Emory University.   The Bizzy Izzy: sherry, bourbon, pineapple, and lemon juice on ice in a high ball glass. A pre-prohibition cocktail created by Tom Bullock, the first African-American to author his own cocktail manual.

Tiki: Modern Tropical CocktailsBy Shannon Mustipher Intro: Welcome to the Cookery By The Book Podcast with Suzy Chase. She's just a home cook in New York City, sitting at her dining room table talking to cookbook authors.Shannon: My name is Shannon Mustipher, and I am the author of Tiki: Modern Tropical Cocktails. When I'm not working on writing and developing cocktails, I'm the spiritual advisor, a.k.a. beverage director of Glady's Caribbean, which is a rum-focused bar in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. I also work as a consultant and educator on the spirit of topics and cocktails.Suzy Chase: This is the first cocktail recipe book written by a working, African American bartender and released by a major publisher in more than 100 years. When you decided to write this book, were you aware of that statistic?Shannon: Yeah, I was. Just a little background. I'm a big history buff, always have been, and I want to say maybe a decade ago, I became aware of a book called The Ideal Bartender by Tom Bullock, who published in 1919 and worked at the Pendennis Club in Louisville, Kentucky. He was the first and the last to publish this book, African American bartender to publish. There are a lot of bar books floating around, but that one, I just didn't ... I wasn't hearing of it, and my peers weren't reading it, and I just thought it was fascinating that it was like this little nugget of history. When I decided to write my book, it was five years ago, and I didn't know when it was going to be published based on the negotiations I was going through with my publisher, Rizzoli. For it to come out in 2019, a 100 years after Mr. Bullock's publication, just feels like there's something about it that was meant to be.Suzy Chase: I'm probably the only person in the world, but I never knew that Tiki was a huge category of cocktails. For some reason, I thought Tiki was like a vibe or a mindset. Talk a little bit about that. Shannon: It's all those. In regards to Tiki being a cocktail category, it's helpful to keep in mind that when Tiki came about in the late '30s, I mean the first Tiki bar was a spin-off of hinky dinks and that became Don the Beachcomber. Don the Beachcomber, his name was Ernest Gantt, was kind of a world traveler, rum aficionado. Came up with this idea of creating an escapist experience in his restaurant because this is at the end of the Great Depression, and people were looking for some relief from the day to day. The type of cocktails he came up with differed from every other in that you could blend a couple different spirits in one cocktail. That had never been done before. You could also blend a few different juices as opposed to most recipes that would have one or two at the most and various sweeteners and things of that nature. Those features of cocktail you're not seeing other styles of cocktail, and that's ... The recipes are like the core of what makes it different. Then there's other elements like the attention to vessels and presentation and things like fire and orchids and all this craziness that just not ... you're not seeing it in other styles of cocktail. From I would say a structural standpoint where the recipe concerned, there are some clear differentiations. Then of course in the presentation, you don't see that outside of Tiki. Suzy Chase: Last week Grub Street mentioned you saying you're a central figure in the Tiki renaissance in New York City. It's all about the appearances the element of surprise. Do you think this is a misunderstood tradition or a forgotten tradition or both? Shannon: I don't it's as misunderstood as it was when I got my start five years ago. I had to qualify in that on the west coast where Tiki originated, it never fully disappeared. Right? There was a moment where there was only a few bars that still had the authentic recipes. The reason for that was there was secrecy around those recipes, and they were coded because the restaurants and bars that served Tiki in the '40s were very popular, and the information regarding those products was considered propietary. It be like, think of the recipe or formula for Coca-Cola. That's proprietary. Right? When the people that created those recipes and worked in those restaurants retired, they didn't necessarily share the knowledge. This sort of knowledge begins to die off, and then add to that in the late '60s and '70s, American mixology in general was on the wane. It was associated with a generation that was a little bit older. Younger kids, the hippies so to speak, weren't interested in drinking cocktails like their parents did. They preferred recreational experiences. You know what I mean? Yeah, from the '70s through the '90s, there was no information really. You had Tiki tea in California and Los Angeles and Tonga Hut remained open, and there are other places. Outside of a handful of bars, people didn't really know the recipes anymore. The few that did, they weren't talking about it or giving out those recipes because that was just a culture, to keep them under lock and key. When Jeff Beachbum Berry began writing his book about 15, 20-odd years ago, he did the most extensive research into Tiki, went to all those bars, and looked for the rum bottles and scoured any document he could find and was able to reverse engineer and figure out what these drinks actually were. As his books became more popular, and people were more aware of what he was doing, then Tiki started to make a comeback. It wasn't reduced to oh, it's a sweet, tropical drink with an umbrella in it. People began to see the workings and the mechanics of this style of cocktail and understand and appreciate the level of craft that goes into taking eight or 10 ingredients and balancing it in a cocktail. Now, the cat's out of the bag. Right? We have the Jeff Beachbum Berry books. We have Smuggler's Cove, which does an excellent job of talking about not only the history of Tiki and showing us those recipes as well as Martin Cate's newer recipes. The information is out there now. Maybe there are people that still misunderstand it, but it just doesn't have to be that way anymore. Whereas 20 years ago, there just was scant means to educate yourself about it. Suzy Chase: Give us the short history of rum. Shannon: Yeah, sure. Rum is a byproduct of the sugar industry. When European powers began to colonize the Americas, the top priority was to find a cash crop or some other resource that would provide a large stream of revenue, big stream of revenue. Initially the thought was gold, and that didn't really work out. There was experimentation with various things, rice and cotton. Sugar was the one, especially in the Caribbean, that had the highest yield. Just some context, the kind of revenue that was coming out of just Barbados or Jamaica alone by the late 19th century, was on par with oil boom or the gold rush and what took place in Silicon Valley more recently. There had never been a moment in the history of the world where there was such a big shift in the economy. It's important to remember that rum is not just a style or a category of spirit that came about because that's what someone wanted to make. They had this idea in mind of a flavor profile and certainly wanted to craft. It's a byproduct and another way to add revenue to a sugar plantation, their operation. For who are less familiar, in order to produce rum you need molasses or you could use fresh cane juice, but rum as we know it in the Caribbean came about when planters were looking for a way to utilize molasses which was regarded as a waste product. They discovered that you could ferment it and then distill it. This began in earnest around 1705. Prior to that, in the earlier part of the 17th century, there was a little bit of rum production on the islands, but it was basically moonshine. It wasn't packaged. It wasn't bottled. People didn't regard it as a spirit category in the way that we look at spirits today. It was just, this is what we have to drink in terms of alcohol because we can't make beer here. It's too expensive to bring over wine. In fact, the wine doesn't really travel well in the heat. This all began to change, and rum started moving towards how we think of it in a modern sense in 1650 when Jamaica was taken by the British. The British adopted rum as the liquid that they will give out in their daily ration, which became a form of payment in addition to a supplement to the really poor diet that the sailors had on board. By 1750, the Navy had grown to such an extent that they could no longer source the rums themselves from the islands, but they hired an outside firm called [ED & Man 00:11:08]. This firm would source the liquid from various islands and then take them over to London. They created a proprietary blend, and they would age it there. Meanwhile, for those of you who don't know, brands the way we think of them today, they didn't exist back then. A distiller didn't have a face or a label. They didn't make liquid and put it in a bottle and sell it. They'd make liquid and sell it to brokers, and the brokers would create the brands and sell the products. At this time, there was a robust business around that in the scotch and port and sherry categories in London. These merchants caught on to the rum, and they realized that it was par on with single malt scotch, especially the rums from Jamaica which are highly prized, because they had a really special aroma and heavy body due to their production processes. By 1820s, this is when you start to see rum appear as a commercial product in Europe. To this day in the Netherlands and in Germany, the preference for rum [inaudible 00:12:23] Jamaica styles that haven't differed too much from that time. By 1860s, then you start to see rum become a big global business, do brands like Bacardi. Where we are today is we are getting back to looking at the earliest styles of productions of rum. We want what we consider to be more authentic expressions that haven't had sugar added and are made on stills or in facilities that have been operation for 200 or 300 years. It's a really great moment for the category, especially where Tiki is concerned, we can make the recipes the way they were intended. There was a moment in the '70s through the early '90s where the rums that were in the original recipes were not available in the U.S. You could attempt to make the drinks, but you were not really going to really hit it. Now, we can make those drinks again. Suzy Chase: In opinion, what's a good rum to start off with if you're not familiar with rum? Shannon: Well, here's the thing. Rum is a huge category. You can make it in over 90 countries. I compare it to wine in that ... Let's say you look at gin and whiskey. Sure, there are some variations and different brands and styles, but it's not such a huge spectrum of rum. You can get something that's like really light and dry and clean, or you can get really fruity or earthy and funky or on the sweeter side depending on how it's produced. To answer that question, I'd say you have start at least five, because if you are trying to pick out a starter, there's so many places to start. If you take one bottle or one style, you're not ... It doesn't really capture what rum is about. With that in mind, I would suggest picking up a spectrum of rums. Right? On one hand, you want to start with say a lighter rum. For that, I would suggest Rhum Barbancourt [bonk 00:14:33] from Haiti. It's made from fresh pressed juice. Has a little bit of a delicate gassiness and fuller element to it. You can sip it neat. You can put it in cocktails. It's really easy to work with and to enjoy. From there, I would suggest picking up a bottle of an un-aged overproof English style rum, and that would most likely be Jamaican rum. That could be Rum Fire or Wray & Nephew. If you're lucky enough to go to Grenada, I really love the River Antoine. What that bottle is going to do for you is you're not necessarily going to drink it by itself. If you want to have more intensity, then you'll need a rum like that. In terms of something that's just more like everyday drinking rum, cocktail or otherwise, I would suggest picking up a Barbadian rum or a Bajan style rum, because those strike a nice balance between being fuller bodied and rich, but also really clean and smooth and elegant and super easy. The drinking culture in the islands differ from the island to island. That's reflected in the styles. In Barbados, they have this pastime called liming, which means that you gather with your friends at a little shack called a rum shop, and you sip rum all day. Maybe you use mixers, but for them it's not ... rum isn't cocktailing. Rum is just spending time with friends. Right? Then from there I would suggest you would want pick up a rhum agricole from Martinique or one of the former French territories. Those are really cool. They're made from fresh cane juice like the Barbancourt I mentioned, but their standards of production, they have a DLC around it. They're very particular about what you're going taste in the glass because they want to highlight and emphasize the [tarare 00:16:27] of their respective geographic areas. There's also a lot of influence from Armagnac and Cognac production there. With the agricoles, you get to see a really high level of production and crafted. You don't typically associate with rums, but I think trying those will shift your perception around what you think rum is in a positive way. Lastly, some people prefer what they would call a smoother, rounder, richer type of spirit. I find that people that prefer whiskey have a tendency to enjoy Spanish-style rums which undergo more time in the barrel because the Spanish approach is more influence by wine and sherry where the base liquid is not what's emphasized, but what's emphasized is a barrel regimen and the house style and the skill of the blender. That's what they want you to taste in the end. Suzy Chase: Yeah. I read in the book that for example, Jamaican rums have kind of grassy notes, and that's something you wouldn't even think about with rum. Shannon: That's why I love it. Prior to opening Gladys and working in that program five years ago, I was into a pre-prohibition era cocktails and gin and whiskey and all that stuff. I still enjoy it on occasion, but if God came to me and told me that from here on out I was confined to only drinking one spirit category, I'd happily choose rum because there's one for everybody and for every mood or hour or what have you. If I want something that is really dry and light and crisp, I can find it in the rum category. If I want something that's big and bold and chewy or even smokey, I can find that in rum as well. If I just had gin for instance, the spectrum of options is limited. Suzy Chase: In Tiki, chapter one kicks off with foundational cocktails. What are those? Shannon: Where rum is concerned, there's what we call the holy trinity, which is rum, sugar, and lime. They just work really well together in the earliest rum drinks. The Navy grog, that's rum, sugar, and lime. The Caipirinha, it's made with Cachaça so it's not technically rum, but the Cachaça is sugar and lime. The same is true for the [Dakaiti 00:19:00], which rum, sugar, and lime. In those foundational drinks, we walk through those cocktails so that you can taste the different styles of rum and get a sense for how those rums behave. The underlying elements are more or less the same. Also, those drink a base template for others cocktails that follow, and so the bulk of Tiki drinks have those three elements and them build from there. Suzy Chase: There's a technique in the book called fat washing spirits. What does that mean? Shannon: It's an infusion. It was pioneered by Don Lee who is a partner in Existing Conditions currently and got his start at PDT. With fat washing, you take an oil. It could be derived from an animal. Don Lee's was smoked bacon fat. I do a lot of vegan fat washes, so I love coconut oil. Essentially you I guess steep or infuse the liquid with the oil for a 12-hour period at room temperature, and then you freeze it so that the solids separate. They come to the top. You skim it off. You strain it. What happens is that the liquid is now, it has those fat molecules in it. It takes on a different texture and a creamier mouth feel. Milk punches utilizes the same principle. They're very labor intensive. It requires multiple steps and a number of ingredients and a couple days to achieve that result. Yeah, milks punches which were popular in the 18th century, have made a little bit of a comeback in the modern bar, is where that idea is derived. Fat washing with oils is much faster and more consistent. Suzy Chase: You created a cocktail inspired by a reggae song. Tell us about that. Shannon: It's one of my favorite cocktails actually. It's called the Kingston Soundsystem. I was approached by Punch Magazine to pick a reggae song and make a cocktail. I really love Skylarking by Horace Man. It's a really chill, laid back, kind of lazy day kind of song. I was like, okay. There's a bird reference here. I love the Jungle Bird. I'm going come up with an unusual twist on it. The idea was kind of like a white angelonia. I wanted to make a white Jungle Bird. For those who are not familiar with the cocktail, they Jungle Bird has aged Jamaican rum. It has Campari, lime, and pineapple. I looked at each of those elements and went on the other end of the spectrum. Rather than aged Jamaica rum, I used an un-age higher proof Jamaica rum. It's call Rum Fire. Instead of Campari, I used a gentian liqueur called Suze. I love that stuff. A consumer right now, the American public is not too hip to it, but I think it's wonderful. I use it kind of in a way, a lot of people have used St. Germain in the past, which is elderflower liqueur, but way too sweet for my tastes. I want something dryer. That's stands in for the Campari. Rather than pineapple, I wanted to again reference Jamaica so I use Soursop. Soursop is a large fruit about the size of a big cantaloupe, and it has little prickles on it. Kind of think of it as a prickly pear. It has a really wonderful, delicate, floral aroma in the nose. It's delightful for those who have not tried it. Then again, not very sweet. Kind of tastes cross between a pear and an apple, but it has a really clean, dry finish on it. There's really nothing else like it. Then of course, there's a lime. The result is a drink that follows the Jungle Bird template, but takes it in a dryer, more herbaceous direction. Suzy Chase: Do you think we can find these ingredients in our local grocery store or liquor store/Whole Foods? Shannon: It depends on where you live. Soursop, you'll find it in Caribbean stores or Asian stores. If you can't find the juice, you can usually find it as a frozen concentrate. That would be Goya or [lafame 00:23:43]. Then where Suze is concerned, yeah, if you live in an area where you can get to a decent liquor store that has Craft products, you'll find it. Suzy Chase: As a bartender, what's the most annoying request you get the most?Shannon: I don't. I like bar-Suzy Chase: Nothing? Shannon: You know how some people are like, "Oh my God, you're ordering a Mojito now. It's busy." For me, I'm there to serve the guests and I'm delighted to do it. You're there to get what you want, and that's why I'm there, to give you what you want. Case in point. I was doing a pop-up, and it was Tiki drinks. Someone wanted a Martini. I was so excited because she was getting what she wanted. I made a her what I hoped was a really good Martini. I really enjoyed it and so did she. Suzy Chase: They're more than 60 beautiful color photographs in this book. You call Tiki a theater for the senses, and you get such a good feel for that with Noah Fecks' photos. Tell us about your friendship with him. Shannon: It's a beautiful one. We met through a mutual friend, Nicole Taylor. She's the author of the Up South cookbook. Suzy Chase: She's amazing. Shannon: Oh, God. I want to be her when I grow up. Suzy Chase: Me too. Shannon: I met her a decade ago. She's just so dynamic and has forged her own path. She's totally Nicole and just ... I don't know. I can't go on enough about her. I had a birthday party and she invited him to tag along. She predicted that we would quote unquote ride off into sunset together. We hit it off that night, and we're chatting. He approached me shortly thereafter about doing some test shoots at Gladys because he shoots a lot of food. He wanted to added some liquor and cocktail content to his book. The shoots went really well. I worked in the photo industry for the first five years of living in New York as a style and prop assistant. I knew procedures of how a shoot would go. It was really smooth and the images were beautiful. Shortly after that, he suggested that we do this book with Rizzoli. Suzy Chase: I don't know how long this book took you, but there is a full color photo with every cocktail in this book. I can't even imagine the work that went into that. Shannon: Well, I mean, had I know how much work was going to go into it, I don't know if I would have agreed to do it. Suzy Chase: I mean, just looking at it I just think, wow, that's a lot of work, but it's gorgeous. Shannon: I mean, to be fair, I believe that that work is not just what I did in the two years that I was writing it and producing a book, but in the years prior that I spent studying visual art and practicing as an artist, I went to [Ritzies 00:26:52], studied painting and art history. I started drawing when I was five. I was always making things. The book was really exciting in that not was I able to share my recipes and more importantly, my approach to flavors and ingredients, but also could indulge that part of me that wanted to create images. That was the intention behind the photography in the book. Now, you look at a lot of cocktail photography and it follows a formula. It's like, okay, here's a drink on a bar or against some kind of backdrop or what have you, and that's pretty much it. Because we're working in Tiki, we wanted to go beyond and create vignettes that would evoke a story. Suzy Chase: Well, you did it. It feels like it's a culmination of your fashion background and your mixology background. This is all of that in one book. Shannon: Oh, yeah. When I closed my studio shortly before I moved in New York 12 years ago, I had a lot of friends around me who were dismayed because, "You're so good. Why are you doing this?" I had various reasons. I didn't think that what I refer to as the art industry was for me. One of my biggest reservations around it was the accessibility of that work and the class issues around it. Right? Where do most people go to see art? They go to galleries. They go to museums. Museums are wonderful institutions, but there are a lot of people that can't afford to go to a museum, or culturally it's just not an inviting place for certain individuals. When you go deeper than that, when it's time to buy artwork, that's again confined to a class of people. Taken further, when a collector acquires a work, doesn't necessarily get seen. I think the statistic is that 70 to 80% of all the artwork is in storage. This idea of making this thing for a select few is probably just going to sit in a dark room. That's not where I wanted to put my energy, and that's not how I want to share what I had to say in the world. With that being said, being able to make a cocktail book where my creativity could be there and it was very accessible to people. I mean, a cocktail is like 10 or 15 bucks. Most people can do that every once in a while, was really gratifying. Suzy Chase: Now to my segment called my last meal. What would you have for you last supper, and what cocktail would you have with it? Shannon: I'm a pretty simple person. I would have ostrich steak. Suzy Chase: That's simple? I thought you were going to be, "I'll just have a taco." You say ostrich steak. That's so interesting. Shannon: It's so delicious. You ever had it? Suzy Chase: No. Shannon: It's going to change your life. Okay. Suzy Chase: Where do you get that? Shannon: Okay, so I had it in South Africa. I think that if you live in Africa or certain parts of the world, I mean, I think you can get ostrich here. The whole point is in South Africa, it's not a big deal. That's the meat that they have. Right? Like we have cows, they have ostrich. It's like a steak, but the texture ... I don't know. I can't even tell you why it was so good. I'd do that and pair it with a nice glass of wine. Suzy Chase: Not rum? Shannon: No. Suzy Chase: Wow. What kind of wine? You're just throwing me off today. Shannon: What kind of wine? Probably a Zen or ... No, that's too sweet. I don't know. Something kind of dusty, maybe [Linwood 00:31:00]. I used to work in wine. I still enjoy it. Yeah, I mean, rum's great, but I just don't if it would go that good with the steak. Suzy Chase: Where can we find you on the web, social media and in Brooklyn? Shannon: My website, Shannon dot ... shannonmustipher.com. It's not a dot. That's my email. On Instagram, same thing. Just Shannon Mustipher. I don't have an alias. I'm like, no ... I want you to find me. It's not like, what's her handle? Just my first, I say. Put it into Google. You'll find me. Suzy Chase: It's M-U-S-T-I-P-H-E-R for everyone out there. I also want to remind everyone that we're going to be doing a free live Tiki talk and book signing at Lizzyoung Bookseller in Cobble Hill in Brooklyn on Thursday, May 30th. Look for more information on my Instagram and Shannon's, and we we hope to see you there. Thank you so much, Shannon, for coming on Cookery By the Book Podcast. Shannon: Suzy, it was a pleasure. Thank you for taking the time, and I look forward to seeing you next Thursday. Outro: Follow Suzy Chase on Instagram at Cookery By the Book, and subscribe at cookerybythebook.com or in Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening to Cookery By the Book Podcast, the only podcast devoted to cookbooks since 2015.

For this special chapter we were invited to a basement inside a barber shop, where the pop-up "Puntas, Gracias" is located. Christian Schrader and Tom Bullock want to make Agave spirits accessible to anybody and share their knowledge and experiences. Based on your individual preferences you can taste four different spirits in a session and they will guide you through the experience. You also can purchase bottles there. We recorded this chapter to give you a feeling for the experience.

The two Melbourne based automotive engineers behind Honed Developments join us on The Exchange to discuss the suspension characteristics of 90’s Hondas, their personal builds, 1000km road trips to Sydney, and how they are using […]

Updated Friday, Nov. 3, 2017, 11:24 a.m. This election season, political reporter Tom Bullock has been busy covering the race for Charlotte mayor and council through his Candidate ME podcast. This week, there’s more of that - he goes outside the city. Tom spoke to WFAE’s David Boraks about races for mayor and town board surrounding Charlotte. David says that concerns over growth are a consistent theme.

WFAE political reporter Tom Bullock has a new podcast primarily tied to the Charlotte mayor’s race. It also delves into other municipal races.

Lockbox chef Jonathan Searle opened with an update on the upcoming first birthday party at 21c Museum Hotel: art, cocktails, nibbles. But of course! Then Jenn Desjardins of Copper and Kings American Brandy in Louisville laid out the specifics of the new Ideal Bartender School, created in honor of African American cocktail book author Tom Bullock and intended to offer opportunity to 20 Louisvillians committed to hospitality and spirits.

Tom Bullock stayed through the end of this past week's Charlotte City Council meeting, and he (and his editor) are glad he did as a surprise debate unfolded. Tom also discusses his preparations for interviewing Diane Rehm, while Lisa Worf discusses legislation that's giving many colleges angst.

Of course, we discuss HB 2. Specifically, we take you behind the scenes of our coverage of this week's developments, and Tom Bullock discusses comparisons to a 1990s Colorado law that the U.S. Supreme Court struck down. We also talk about the Patrick Cannon tapes released this week that show the former Charlotte mayor taking bribes.

If you care about the debate over Syrian refugees and what's happening in Syria, you will want to listen to this episode. Tom Bullock discusses his reporting on the debate, and his experience as a journalist in Syria. He was part of a NPR team that interviewed Syria President Bashar al-Assad. We’ve also posted pictures Tom took of Syrian monuments, some which have since been destroyed by ISIS.

From class size and teacher pay to charter schools, changing test standards and the common core, public education has been big news of late. Tuesday night, WFAE will hold a public conversation on the State of Public Education. The event begins at 7 at the UNC Charlotte Center City Auditorium. WFAE’s Tom Bullock will moderate the conversation. He spoke with WFAE Morning Edition host Marshall Terry.

Mark and Francis discuss old-school cocktails they found in an old cocktail book written by African-American bartender, Tom Bullock. Their guest is Lesley Townsend, founder of the Manhattan Cocktail Classic. They discuss the big events happening ...