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Kiera talks with Chief Operations Manager Jeff and Dr. Andrew Sugg of Green Park Dentistry about identifying your dreams as dental leaders, and finding the path to get there. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is such a special magical day on the podcast. I have two of my absolute favorite human beings. We have known each other for so many years. They are incredible, incredible dentists, practice owners, managers, like you name it. These two men are some of the most brilliant people I've watched in dentistry and I've watched them grow from beginning, very basics.   to this masterpiece of their life, of their community, of this practice that I truly think is such an example in this world. So Jeff and Andrew, welcome to the show. How are you today?   Jeff & Andrew (00:33) Great, thank you for having us. Doing well, thank you for having us.   Kiera Dent (00:37) You're so welcome. And I know it'll get a little weird, because when there's three of us here, it's always like, who's supposed to talk? So I'll try really hard to just call someone out. But honestly, guys, how does it feel to be, and I'll ask Jeff first. So again, I'll just riff through this. How does it feel from when we first met to where you are today? How does it feel? What would you even say? What's a word? Or what's the expression of where you started to where you are today? How was that experience for you, Jeff?   Jeff & Andrew (00:42) Yeah.   ⁓ if I had to sum it up in a word, looking back at myself in this experience, I think my younger self would look at today and be astonished that one, this is the career path I'm in that I didn't set out to. ⁓ you know, two, I started in this dental industry with zero experience other than knowing Andrew and listening to what he talks about when he comes home, to today.   that we have gone from a team of seven in this tiny building with five ops we started with to now a team of 20, 17 ops in a 16,000 square foot building. I literally cannot, I have to pinch myself being like, we did this, take a minute, let's reflect. I'm still kind of coming down from all of the renovation and the moving and calibration. ⁓   So every now and then I have to remind myself like, wait, this is our place, we did this. So take a minute and reflect. And I'm still kind of battling with that because I'm used to going full force. So I'm astonished.   Kiera Dent (02:16) It's amazing.   And Jeff, I'm so glad you said that. we've known each other. Jeff and Andrew have been clients of ours for years. This is like a client spotlight where we bring on people to just, I think, share their journey, share their experience. And for me to have like a proud mama moment of just being so freaking proud of where you are. And I agree, I'm astonished. It's not something when I met you too that I thought, would it be capable? But I do think it's all for all of us, like a pinch me moment. And for me,   What I love is seeing my favorite humans just flourish. And I feel like you guys give back to your team, you give back to your community. You're the good guys that I always want to win. And so I'm your biggest raving fan over here. Yes, have the life, have the experiences, do the things because you're just amazing humans that are contributing so much to this world. So I love that. Andrew, want to hear, and also Jeff, always you should just love Andrew so much and the fact that he brought you into dentistry. Welcome to the best profession ever. So kudos on that, Andrew.   Jeff & Andrew (03:07) ⁓ huh. Yes.   Thank you.   Kiera Dent (03:12) What about for you? How's this journey been from where you started? You and Jeff, think it's like adorable. Jeff literally had no clue. I remember Jeff, you're like, I don't even know what these things.   Jeff & Andrew (03:20) That's exactly what I was going to say. Like Andrew brought me and I was like, Hi, Kiera, I'm Jeff. And I don't know what I'm doing and I think I need your help. So I do have to throw in a kudos, a super thank you for guiding me and helping me get to this place. So yeah, you guys really helped kind of us.   Kiera Dent (03:32) my gosh, I   can't take the huge credit. Tiffany has been like the mass superstar for you guys. I've been able to be the proud mom on the side that's just freaking rooting for you all day long. But yes, I do remember definitely like, hi, your adorable glasses. Like you guys were just like dressed in white I think the night I met you and hi guys, super nice to meet you. So, Andrew, didn't mean to cut you off, go ahead.   Jeff & Andrew (03:47) No, it's okay.   I think that's it though, is you guys have really helped bridge that like my clinical side and love of dentistry and what I've always really enjoyed and still geek out over all the time. And you helped pull Jeff in and help him understand how he can kind of make this what he wanted to be. And I think that was something that kind of stuck with us ever since we first met y'all was that was on that weekend that we heard was   Like if you're not happy in your office, there's one person to blame and it's you, right? So it's like, you have the power, you have the energy, the time to put into that and kind of make it what you want. And I guess that's where like, my word would be excited. Cause I do feel like the more that we lean in and kind of just trust our gut and do the things that we kind of really want to do, it becomes more fun. We kind of are instilling in our team what you've instilled in us to kind of take that leadership and   work towards their goals and find their secret secrets that kind of stand out and really make them shine. And I think it's just, it's been really fulfilling and really exciting for us.   Kiera Dent (04:57) That's amazing. And I think for both of you, I remember, I feel like there was a pivotal moment. I don't know what year it was, but I feel like there was a moment where you both just hunkered down of what do want our life to look like? What do we want our practice to be? What do we this to look like? And I feel like that was your, I call them lightning bolt moments. And I feel like it was just like, from there, I feel like that's where momentum just skyrocketed for you. And I don't know if you guys remember that from persons on the outside looking in.   That's something that I really watched, but I'm just curious, like, did you feel that way? I'll start with Andrew first on this one. Did you feel that way? And if you did, like, okay, give me the thumbs up or like, yes, did you feel that way? That's question one. Let me be a better host here. Andrew, did you feel that that was something that changed for you guys in your practice?   Jeff & Andrew (05:37) Yes, no, I definitely did. it is hard though for me to put pinpoint. I think I had to lean into trusting having Jeff here and having you guys help him. It just allowed me to really focus and be that dreamer that I am. I'm definitely the dreamer. He's the implementer. So I think you helped us to find roles and understand kind of where we really can help each other, you know, kind of reach those goals together. So.   Yeah, I don't know the day or time, but I definitely felt like it was soon after meeting you guys and we just really felt like, okay, we can do this. it just, yeah, it's just magical. ⁓   Kiera Dent (06:14) It's truly magical. Thank you. Jeff, what about for you?   Jeff & Andrew (06:18) Yeah, ⁓ I remember several moments and I think a lot of ⁓ it was like a light bulb. I remember it was, you know, the career change and all that. It was hard for me, you know, going from the scientific, you know, yeah, marine geology, marine geophysics, so like offshore to now dealing with people.   Kiera Dent (06:22) you   Is it geology? Am I like making that up?   Jeff & Andrew (06:43) you patients, the public, it was crazy. I don't know what world I was in. But then I realized, you know, I was coming into the office. I am not enjoying coming into the office. I'm not enjoying this. And I started to see, you know, you know, at the time we called it staff or employees. And it was like that. Why are we doing what we're doing? Right. So you guys helped me realize that I'm the catalyst to change. We are. ⁓ And   Kiera Dent (06:43) Yeah.   It's real!   Jeff & Andrew (07:11) We had past experience of being treated poorly or maybe unfairly or just feeling unfulfilled. And I started to realize we're in this industry that I'm not enjoying going to work, so nobody else is enjoying going to work. Who can change it? That's me. And then I started to notice that it felt like people in their roles and their careers within the office felt unfulfilled or underappreciated. And it's like a dental assistant isn't just a dental assistant.   do the work that the dentist to allow the dentist to do his job. So without that, it's essential. So why don't we treat them like essential? So there was that moment that I walked into that door and I had you and Tiffany in my ear like, come in with a different energy, present differently. And I did, and I remember that moment. And I remember seeing people be like, whoa, this is a little different. Like, this could be a fun day. And I'm like, this is going to be a fun.   career. And then that started, okay, how can I make people's roles more fulfilling? How can we create growth opportunity? How can we show them that there's opportunity in our practice and they have the power to grasp that, to have a fulfilling life? We go to work every day for eight hours or longer, you know, so if they're not fulfilled there, how are we serving the people that are serving us?   Kiera Dent (08:38) That's incredible. And I think Jeff, this just highlights a lot of your leadership and like the growth I've seen in you. I remember Cranky Jeff, who did not enjoy going to the wards. Like, what is it? Yeah.   Jeff & Andrew (08:45) They call him Gilbert, that's my middle name. So that's   the ⁓ alias for Cranky Jeff.   Kiera Dent (08:53) like it. Yeah, I do remember those days and you were not happy in this and I don't think Andrew was super happy. Andrew, you've always been like one of the most passionate dentists I've ever met, which is so fun to see you like light up when you talk about dentistry and do all the pieces. Jeff, on the other hand, I think you kind of like drug him into this like, Hey, I need you in here. Gilbert, it sounds like was the one that and then Jeff came to the scene realizing like the the space for you and Jeff, that's something I really love to highlight is I think so many leaders don't realize it's within them.   Jeff & Andrew (09:01) you   Yeah.   Kiera Dent (09:21) because it doesn't look the way that they thought it was going to be. I just I'm excited to get into that. And I'm just curious. So you briefly mentioned you guys had this small practice in my mind. It's like purple or pink walls. Is that really true? Like inside?   Jeff & Andrew (09:33) It started   that way. It was like very dark green, brown, had purple. Yes, there was some magenta. Yeah. Yes. Very dark brown. Popcorn ceiling too. ⁓   Kiera Dent (09:39) knew it. It was like a dollhouse in my mind. Like it was like this like little like very short like ceilings. ⁓   Yes, not that great.   I remember being like, Tiff, this is where they work. Like, okay, looks like this. Like, I mean, how could you not have fun, Jeff? There's like colors of every rainbow on all the walls for you. Like, okay. ⁓ but you guys went from this small building to now this massive practice. You've got all these team members. but something I, I'm probably going to like butcher your vision just a little bit. but I remember hearing it when you said it and it stuck with me again. I think I'll get like the gist of it, but I remember you saying like, we are going to be like,   Jeff & Andrew (09:51) Yeah.   Yeah, yeah.   Kiera Dent (10:17) the dentist that the community chooses. Something like that. don't know how, I feel like I'm close to it, but I really loved that it was like, okay, we're gonna impact our community really largely. We want to be the place that our community chooses. And you did this whole expansion and I'm just curious, like, okay, what worked well? What didn't work well? What were like, let's just kind of go on like a fun road. I'm not gonna pick who like you guys can tag team over there, but I'm just curious of.   You went from Gilbert Jeff, who's angry to this like weird house that you're in to now this like amazing business building community. Like the impact you guys have in your community is amazing. You have all these team members. Like what were the highlights? were the like walk me through? I need to know what did you do right? What did you wish you would have done? What advice do you have for other people looking to go down this journey? That's something I think you've done so well.   but I think like it didn't come without a lot of learning and a lot of growth that I'd love you guys to just highlight. But also you did some things really freaking well too, so highlight that too. So ⁓ it's over to both of you, whomever wants to pick up the ball and run with it, it's yours. And tag team, because I'm sure both of you have very different perspectives on how that took place.   Jeff & Andrew (11:23) Well,   I can start because I think one thing for me that's been really amazing is like, really, you guys helped be our cheerleaders to say like, hey, if you stick with these things, you stick with these systems, it's really allowed us to kind of be ourselves. And in a way, that's what feels unreal. Like it feels really magical that like we get to be ourselves every day. We get to stick to like what our core values are. And it feels lucky that people appreciate that. And that shouldn't be like.   rare in the world today, but it really does feel that way. So I feel really lucky to come to work. I feel lucky. get to be honest and authentic with the people around me. And I think ⁓ that's been like the biggest, coolest thing to me, like through all of this is I think having you all as cheerleaders, I was really like the biggest thing because you move into this building and increase in our team size is kind of like, that happening? And then I'm like, I'm going to go do the dentistry. You, you guys figure it out and you're like, yeah, we're to hire some people.   Kiera Dent (12:17) Andrew's always pushing it off like, Jeff, I'm gonna   go do this, like good luck on all the fires. No wonder you a good one. I'll put it.   Jeff & Andrew (12:19) Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, can you stop being   the dreamer for like a year? need a break. Stop dreaming. Come down for second. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. would say so, you know, kind of piggybacking off what we touched on earlier with elevating the team and that sort of thing. So when we did that, was kind of like positivity just keeps.   Kiera Dent (12:26) He just can't stop. That's amazing.   Jeff & Andrew (12:46) building, right? It's contagious. People want to be around it. People like it. They want to feel that way. So we did some work internally with the team and then we realized the team likes it. You know, this is real, you know? So then that immediately transfers to the patients and then to the community. So there's kind of like the little trickle effect there. So when patients start to come in and they're like, this is kind of fun. Everybody enjoys their job. I enjoy coming here. ⁓   or when I walk in, I feel happy, you know? It's like, that's the vibe we wanted and that Andrew and Dr. Parks, their dental work is exceptional. So pair it with that. And then the word gets out and it just continues to snowball. So as that's happening, we're like, maybe we should expand. Okay, so I think we can take on somebody else. Then we were, the plans kind of evolved and there was the first plan was to ⁓ double the size of the building that we were in.   Um, but then COVID hit. pre COVID we're like, we're going to do this. Let's plan it. We've got enough land to double the building. Let's get all this done. We actually used our waiting room as an extra spare room because we are kind of outgrowing our space. So business was getting bigger, but the project was not moving along at all. So we cut into the waiting room and we made six rooms and we're like, can we sustain this? Yes. We sustained it immediately. So, um,   Kiera Dent (14:04) Yeah.   Clever.   Jeff & Andrew (14:14) After COVID hit, said, shoot, what are we going to do? Like, we can't afford this expansion anymore. And then what does the timeline look like that just went out the window? we're like, let's pivot. If we were going to spend X amount of dollars here for this, it ended up being ⁓ about 2000 workable square feet that we would add to the practice. ⁓ So we started looking at, there buildings for sale around? And we kind of had a vision a long time ago.   Kiera Dent (14:37) Mm-hmm.   Jeff & Andrew (14:45) even before considering moving the practice itself, like there's some cool buildings in our community that could look beautiful. ⁓ So maybe we look into some of those ugly ones and that's what we end up doing. So we identified a building that was way bigger than what we needed. ⁓ However, the thing that we identified was the plumbing was around the exterior between the levels. So we thought that's super expensive.   Kiera Dent (14:58) Hahaha   art.   Jeff & Andrew (15:13) you know, ground up. So let's utilize some of this plumbing. We interviewed ⁓ several contractors. We chose one to do the original project expanding that building, but we chose another for this project because of our interview. So it took ⁓ a lot of back and forth to figure out who's going to work best with us and who's really going to build in some cost savings. Like with the building that we did buy,   We made sure that the contractor that we hired was going to retain as much material as they could. We had solid doors. like, save the doors. We'll paint them or reuse them. I don't want to buy a ton of new doors. we were able, the relationship started well. It ended well also, but that was the building blocks. Like, are you going to work with me or are you going to be like, let's tear it down and start fresh to make a buck? ⁓   Kiera Dent (15:53) Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Jeff & Andrew (16:07) So that was a huge win. So we made a really good relationship with the contractor there. And then ⁓ he guided us through. And I think, you know, in the planning stage, architecture and engineering took a lot. And those were, ⁓ those were really the holdup, pretty much the engineer. So I would say stress on the engineering part first, because it's hard to make changes later, just because they don't typically work as fast, I guess.   Kiera Dent (16:33) for sure.   That's true. ⁓   Jeff & Andrew (16:36) takes longer, or in our case it was.   But ⁓ I mean, it might seem like you're being redundant about layout and switches and these sort of things. ⁓ It's not. Visit the practice as many times as you can while it's in construction. Talk to everybody on a day-to-day basis. I popped in here so many times and was like, I don't like where that light is, or people don't always listen. it...   stinks to be like, hey, I prepared all this stuff and this is what I want done. This is where I want everything and nobody looks at it. So it's like, you got to be there in person and kind of guide them. ⁓   Yeah, well, I also kind of I think you kind of point out like to make is ⁓ we really stuck to like our our goals and just ambition and just knowing that like, hey, we're just doing good things. And we're just trying to do good for the community. And like, how can we expand? And it was scary at times expansion. It was always very scary till we got here. Like we say, jokingly, when we were at the old building and we come over here, even bringing the staff, you could tell everybody's like, what the heck, this place is really big. We're going to lose each other like   Kiera Dent (17:36) As always.   Jeff & Andrew (17:46) We're not going to hear in our old office, I could hear our front desk and I could actually like tell them like, actually don't do that. You know, like I can correct people from like the room, you know, down the hallway and here it is a lot more space, but it's like, once we got here, we're like, how the heck did we all fit there? And then you just quickly fill the space and it's really, it's exciting. Cause yeah, I don't know. ⁓ you just gotta really like trust in, ⁓ your, process and your values and what you're working towards. And I do feel like it has been.   Kiera Dent (17:46) Hmm?   Jeff & Andrew (18:15) building up, like we're going to celebrate our 10th year in practice next year. And I think that's what feels unreal. Oh my God, it's this year. next year. Yeah. Next year. Sorry. Oh, year. Yeah. Oh, see? Don't even know. We need a break. But it just flies by, right? Like it's just... Yeah, we celebrate every year. For sure. And I think that is like, it is just kind of in a way, you just kind of stick to like little goals, kind of just keep it moving those like, hey, how can we make this better? What can we do? Oh, we need space. How do we solve that problem?   Kiera Dent (18:26) I don't know, it's just not dirty. Pop this celebration all the years. ⁓   Jeff & Andrew (18:43) and necessity just helped kind of push us along. And yeah, I think if we would have done the building before COVID, we probably would still be in our old office and kind of wishing we had more space. But in a weird way, I'm really happy that things worked out the way they did. ⁓ yeah, we've ended up here. So it's been amazing. I'd say on a team perspective too, like the team was really scared to be honest, like moving over here. There were concerns. ⁓ But... ⁓   Kiera Dent (18:58) always.   Jeff & Andrew (19:10) You know, when we said it first, were like, we're do, we're, we're going to do this instead. And they were like, Oh, so I think keeping them regularly informed and kind of showing them the things that we're doing. like, we made them a part of the process so they could be excited about it. We took them to visit when milestones were done. We'd like, Hey, meet over there. We'll, we'll talk about it. Um, we kept them involved in the process. And I mean, we we weren't like financially open about all of the things, but it was nice to be able to like, listen, we've got to buy.   cabinets and cabinets cost this much money. You know what I mean? So ⁓ we could do it, but we have to do this. So we want to take care of it too. So it instilled value and it's still excitement. And then helping, you know, getting votes on like color choices or that sort of thing involved them. And then before the move, they were really nervous about what it was going to be like in a space as large bringing on new team members. So with the help from y'all Tiffany, we   Kiera Dent (19:42) Yeah, yeah. huh.   Jeff & Andrew (20:08) We were like, okay, everybody write down what the specific concerns are. And then we're going to talk about how we're going to combat that. ⁓ So we're going to prep you with like the solution before a problem even occurs. And that was, that was helpful. And then we did move in one weekend, long weekend ourselves with some movers. It was crazy. And everybody pitched in and everybody just had fun doing it. And it was Labor Day weekend, so we had an extra day. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (20:20) So smart.   Amazing.   You're like, okay, we'll do it. I mean, Labor Day seems very fitting. It's labor, it's very intensive.   Jeff & Andrew (20:41) I know, right?   Yeah. But we didn't require anybody. like, hey, we're doing this. Like nobody's required to, but if you want to, we would love it and we'll make it fun. And it was good. then like, what, less than a month after we got slammed at the hurricane in North Carolina, the mountain. So that was a hurdle. We had a generator that was took the longest to get in the last thing installed. One the expensive things we bought and they didn't hook it up. Because the gas inspection.   Kiera Dent (20:49) and   Shoot. Uh-huh.   Thank   Jeff & Andrew (21:11) So double check your inspections, make sure the gas inspection is ⁓ like.   Kiera Dent (21:14) Yes.   Yeah, make sure   it's actually all prepped for in case of hurricane. But like, kudos to you guys. Like, I'm so proud of you and to hear, I love the two different perspectives. And I think something I hear is you are true to yourselves. want like, knowing that you want to be, like I said, I probably like butchered your vision just a little bit. Sorry on that. Like being the dentist that the community chooses and being the place that we can serve them. Well, you can only serve so many patients in six ops, which is like a makeshift six op. We were like five, realistically five and a half. So,   Jeff & Andrew (21:21) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (21:48) It's like, it's not like, if you build them, they will come. You guys already knew you had made this footprint. You knew what you wanted to do. I feel like you guys really hunkered in. You're like, we're going to be a part of this community. This is where we want to be. We want to change the lives of our employees. And I feel like in doing so, I think that almost gave you the, the steam. It's not like something I really love about both of you is on paper, you guys have really sexy numbers that I'm always like, love having them as clients. Like great job over there.   Jeff & Andrew (22:14) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (22:15) But as   human beings, mean, right? As a consultant, you're like, all right, like, look at my perfect, like, model students over here. Well, you guys are one of them. And I'm really proud of the numbers you put up, and I'm proud of the dentistry you do. But the piece is you grew because you wanted to for the impact. You didn't grow for the ego associated with it. And I think that that's so paramount because I think that that's why you guys still are happy. I think that's why you love coming to work.   going through that mayhem, if it's not your passion project, if it's not something you really want to do to serve and to give back and to have a bigger vision beyond the dollar signs, I think the dollar signs for you were secondary and the community and the impact was number one. And I think that's why, like, of course you got to pay for it. I mean, there's no doubt about that. I mean, maybe you guys are truly children of like the billionaires and who knows what world and I didn't know that about you. I'm pretty confident you're not yourself made of where you are over there, but like.   Jeff & Andrew (23:01) No. ⁓   Kiera Dent (23:06) Looking at that, feel like that's a huge probably differentiator of your success because it was built from passion, love, and a desire to give back while also being incredibly good. Like Andrew, you're an amazing clinician. And I think that having, like you said, Jeff, top-notch dentistry, Jeff, you're amazing at building this culture and this community of people that love and serve. I think combine that together, then want to give it back to your community. I feel like your success was inevitable and I'm just really proud of you. And Jeff, to hear about going to the inspections, I'm like, yeah, good for you because   How annoying is it when you walk in, like my husband and when we were building our house, they were gonna put our huge AC unit on the one side of our house that I could actually put like planter boxes and have stairs. And I was like, why don't we just move this over here? My husband tells me all the time, like, Kiera, that was one of your best moves. And I'm like, yes, because the function and the flow, like it would have been all of our neighbors. Where do you think their AC unit is? Right in the middle of the only usable space on the side of the house and they all put it. And I'm like, you're welcome. Or like little things like, like all of it.   Jeff & Andrew (23:56) Yeah, everything. Yeah. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (24:03) And so   just like making it a space that you wanna be in that you're proud of, I just really love and like hearing, I mean, you had an obstacle right after you started and I think some people could have gotten really down, but it's like, no, we built something bigger. It's not like a burn and churn. You guys wanna be there for the long haul. You want this to be a place you're proud of and I think that that just bleeds through. So I'm really proud of you and thanks for sharing that journey. And I wanna pivot to highlight both of you just a smidge because Andrew, I think you do something really special.   and you're able to mentor doctors really well. And I think that this is something that not all dentists are able to do. And Jeff, you're more than welcome to chime in on anything. Like at this point, guys, you should compliment one another. mean, hello, let me just make your life even better for you. But Andrew, can you walk us through, what do you feel are some of the things you do so superior? Like, I want you to brag a little bit. This is a moment where Kiera Dent is so freaking proud of you. Tiff is proud of you. Our company is proud of you. ⁓   because I think other people want to know how to do this. So I almost want to peel back the curtain just a little bit on what are some of the things you do really well in assembly? Like I said, Jeff, chime in too. Then we're going to reverse. We're going to talk about Jeff and Andrew, you can chime in on him. So like both of you can just schmooze each other tonight as well. You guys are going to have an amazing night post podcast. You're welcome. All right. But truly, Andrew, what are some of the things you feel set in part?   Jeff & Andrew (25:11) Yeah, thank you.   Well,   that leads into a great, was going to say, like, I feel really lucky to have Jeff, obviously. And I know not everybody has a Jeff or can trust someone as much as I trust Jeff. But I think obviously it can be very hard on our marriage. So that's one side note. And I know like a lot of couples that that happens. But I think I have to always. Right? know. Two years ago, I was worried. And in gay years, that's like 40 years.   Kiera Dent (25:38) I'm so proud of you. 10 years in and you still, I think, love each other, which is amazing. I think   everybody is. You're like, okay. But it's one of those things also though, I will say, like throwing it out to couples, when couples go through what you have gone through and you're able to like be through the thick and the thin of it, I will also give advice. Like when I watched people go through dental school, and Andrew, I'm sure you saw this, I was so angry at so many of our like friends that went through.   Jeff & Andrew (25:52) you   Kiera Dent (26:05) Like they went through the residencies, they got to the end and I'm like, you freaking made it. And that's when they get divorced. And I'm like, Oh, if you're to get divorced, get divorced during the hard times, but like you have made it. You've made it. And now it's like, it's a matter of like, we bonded together, we grew together. And I think like making sure that stays a priority in your marriage. You guys remember I was a marriage and finally therapist prior to this. Like that was my thing. I like, Oh, don't give up on what you like. You went through the freaking hardest years together. Now it's like, enjoy this amazing life we built together.   Jeff & Andrew (26:10) Yeah.   Right, yeah. All right.   Yeah.   Yeah   Kiera Dent (26:35) and don't lose sight of how grateful we are for one another. anyway, like off my   I hope all of you see the potential within yourselves and ⁓ I'd love to be a part of your story and your journey. So reach out, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on The Dental Team A Podcast.  

This is a weird one to encapsulate, but it was based on an idea I had while re-watching Star Trek the Next Generation and I had to explore it with my fellow Quackcasters, Banes and Tantz. I believe it's generally better to enjoy something in the order it was created rather than the chronological order of the story because you'll understand it so much better in terms of why things are as they are, the creative and aesthetic choices and cultural impact. Re-watching all of Star Trek the Next Generation in order taught me so much about how and why the show and characters developed: NOT from a lore and story perspective but from a practical, technical perspective. I'm watching for the stories but I also notice different filming techniques, lighting choices, sets, props, costumes, how and why the actors perform and act in certain ways, line deliveries, and a million other things: basically the reality of the thing and it's interesting to think how that conflicts with fan lore, or “this is why they went this way with the character” vs “the character did that because…” And it's especially powerful if you can connect it to the culture and current events of the time in which it was created. Now in the world more often than ever people look at creative projects in a kind of cultural vacuum, totally isolated from any cultural context except their own current culture at the time they view the thing, which is bad enough but people's passion of reboots and prequels compounds this. Whether it's Marvel, Dr Who, Star Trek, Star Wars or whatever you'll see this happen with any popular creative IP: the established meaning of these things will be changed constantly due to retconns and a sort of fan lore takes over as a way to make sense of it all. I think it's important to understand the real reason why things are as they are… For example Lando Calrisian wears a cape in The Empire Strikes Back because the costume people dress Billy Dee Williams that way to show he was the ruler of the Cloud City, to give him authority and majesty, while the prequel film, Hans Solo, retconns it into him wearing capes because he's a silly pansexusal fop, totally changing and misunderstanding all aspects of the character. That said though it is also very important that later generations are able to develop their own cultural connections with established IPs in their own way and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact if they can't then those IPs will die, their continued interest and passion is what keeps those things alive and current! It's just important not to lose sight of why things really developed as they did and enjoy things for what they are rather than for what they are AFTER retconns. Hahaha, I hope this makes some sense? What are the most annoying bits of fan lore you've come across? Personally I can't stand the Warhammer 40k lore now, it just gets worse and worse as time goes on. This week Gunwallace was inspired to craft a musical theme to Bad Mix - Quite, chill, creeping, slowly sliding, finding, searching… this one will keep you on edge. It has a very unnerving tilt to it! Topics and shownotes Links Featured comic: Dream Eaters - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2025/jun/02/featured-comic-dream-eaters/ Featured music: Bad Mix - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/Bad_Mix/ - by GabeRoch, rated M. Special thanks to: Gunwallace - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Gunwallace/ Tantz Aerine - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Tantz_Aerine/ Ozoneocean - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/ozoneocean Banes - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Banes/ VIDEO exclusive! Become a subscriber on the $5 level and up to see our weekly Patreon video and get our advertising perks! - https://www.patreon.com/DrunkDuck Even at $1 you get your name with a link on the front page and a mention in the weekend newsposts! Join us on Discord - https://discordapp.com/invite/7NpJ8GS

Totoong ACDC pa rin ito ... Adult Content, with DIOR and Clara! Hahaha ... absent si Ultimo Supremo, kaya sina Dior and Clara ang magkakasolohan! Nag-confess sa isa't isa ... ano kaya yun? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Artificial Go - Yaya [Musical Chairs LP]Lower Slaughter - Dear Phantom [Deep Living LP]93MillionMilesFromTheSun - Only Living Now [Let Go LP]ODDLY - Easy Mark  [Swerve LP]The OBLIQUES - St. Petersburg  [The OBLIQUES 7"]Big Break - The Goon [Exile On Exchange St LP]Alan Sparhawk with Trampled By Turtles - Too High [Alan Sparhawk With Trampled By Turtles LP]Ain't Ur Enn - Riddles [Languish LP]Great Area - Here's Something For Your Morning Commute [Good Coding LP]Idiot Mambo - Braindead [Shoot The Star LP]Mt. Joy - Coyote [Hope We Have Fun LP]Coffin Prick - Loose Enchantment [Loose Enchantment LP]Autocamper - Red Flowers [What Do You Do All Day? LP]Cellar Messiah - Joy Limit [SPLIT LP]A Deeper Heaven - High [High EP]Formal Sppeedwear - Wait (Hatchet Gets a New Hide) [single]Karl Frog - Colonial Hearts ]Yes, Music LP]Maria Iskariot - WaaromDaarom [single]The New Eves - Highway Man [single]Platonic Sex - Easy [Face To The Flywire LP]The Sick Man Of Europe - Transactional [The Sick Man Of Europe LP]Most Things - Lucky [Bigtime LP]New Candys - Aquawish [The Uncanny Extravaganza LP]The Red Flags - Hysterical Woman [Self-Centred And Delusional LP]jeanines - What's Lost [How Long Can It Last LP]Shopfires - I Could Murder You [We Are Not There But We Are Here LP]Avery Friedman - Photo Booth [New Thing LP]Le Pain - Readings By Gina [Dirge Technique LP]Pink Breath of Heaven - The Wind Is Calling [Colors Make a Sound LP]Stereolab - Aerial Troubles [Instant Holograms On Metal Film LP]AAA Gripper - Angel Washes [We Invented Work For The Common Good LP]Another Body Found - Make Yourself At Home [Scooterboys From The Pool LP]Paradoxant - Calypso [Deux LP]R.E.M. - Radio Free Dub (Mitch Easter Remix 1981) [Radio Free Europe 2025 EP]Action Painting! - False Flags [Scatterflats EP]Deerhoof - Ha, Ha Ha Ha, Haaa [Noble and Godlike in Ruin LP]Great Grandpa - Doom [Patience, Moonbeam LP]Bad Bad Bird - Tu Vas Te Faire Mal [Si Brutal LP]The Melodrones - Keep Me Company [The Melodrones LP]

Meg Mitchell Moore is the author of Mansion Beach, a page-turner-y multi POV summer saga with everything you could ask for: a beach, a body, rich people behaving badly but also sometimes not behaving badly, parties, drama and just enough gender-swapped Gatsby to think hard about the meaning of the American Dream. I loved it (KJ here) and I also loved this conversation with Meg, who apparently thinks in multiple POVS and is always just as impatient as I am to feel like the book is done and wonderful when sadly it is… not. #AmReadingMeg: Audio: Great Big Beautiful Life, Emily Henry—Julia WhelanAlso mentioned: Julia Whelan's Thank You for ListeningPrint: The Road to Dalton, Shannon Bowringfrom The Book Shop of Beverly FarmsKJ: Mansion BeachWelcome to Glorious Tuga, Francesca SegalFind Meg at @megmitchellmoore on IG, or visit her website at www.megmitchellmoore.comHEY. Did you know Sarina's latest thriller is out NOW? Rowan Gallagher is a devoted single mother and a talented architect with a high-profile commission restoring an historic mansion for the most powerful family in Maine. But inside, she's a mess. She knows that stalking her ex's avatar all over Portland on her phone isn't the healthiest way to heal from their breakup. But she's out of ice cream and she's sick of romcoms. Watching his every move is both fascinating and infuriating. He's dining out while she's wallowing on the couch. The last straw comes when he parks in their favorite spot on the waterfront. In a weak moment, she leashes the dog and sets off to see who else is in his car. Instead of catching her ex in a kiss, Rowan becomes the first witness to his murder—and the primary suspect.Digital books at: Amazon | Nook | Apple Books | Kobo | Google Play | Audible Physical books at: Bookshop.org | Amazon | Barnes & Noble | Indigo | More paperback links here!New! Transcripts below!EPISODE 450 - TRANSCRIPTKJ Dell'AntoniaKJ here announcing a new series and a definite plus for paid supporters of Hashtag AmWriting. It's Writing the Book, a conversation between Jenny, who's just finished a blueprint for her next nonfiction book, and me because I've just finished the blueprint for what I hope will be my next novel. Jenny and I are both trying to quote-unquote "play big" with these next go-rounds, which is a meta effort for Jenny as that's exactly what her book is about, and we're basically coaching each other through, trading pages, thoughts and encouragement, as well as some sometimes hard-to-hear honesty about whether we're really going in the right direction. So come all in on team Hashtag AmWriting, and you'll get those Writing the Book episodes right in your pod player along with access to monthly AMAs, the book labs, first pages episodes, and come summer, we shall blueprint once again. So sign yourself up at amwritingpodcast.com.All SpeakingIs it recording? Now it's recording. Yay. Go ahead. This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone. Try to remember what I'm supposed to be doing. Alright. Let's start over. Awkward pause. I'm gonna rustle some papers. Okay. Now one, two, three.KJ Dell'AntoniaHey, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia, and this is Hashtag AmWriting, the weekly podcast about writing all the things. Short things, long things, pitches, proposals, fiction, nonfiction, memoir, other things I'm probably not thinking of. We are the podcast about sitting down and getting your work done. And I am KJ Dell'Antonia, the author of three novels, The Chicken Sisters, In Her Boots and Playing the Witch Card, as well as a nonfiction book, How to Be a Happier Parent, former editor of The New York Times Motherlode. You've heard all this. With me today, more importantly, is Meg Mitchell Moore, who has written a book that I think you're gonna find is your summer go to. It is called Mansion Beach, and I loved it. And we'll talk about it in a second. She is also the author of Summer Stage, Vacationland, can attest to both of those great reads. The Islanders, Two Truths and a Lie, The Admissions, loved that one too. They're all great. So, anyway, lots of lots of novels in the family saga, sometimes touch of romance, beach, summer, deep, but also page turnery read genre, which is not a genre because that was too long. But, anyway, Meg, thanks for coming to chat.Meg Mitchell MooreThank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here. This is gonna be really fun.KJ Dell'AntoniaSo I've read some of your other books, obviously, and I felt like this one Mansion Beach was you sort of moving to a different this. It's a little how to describe it. You've got a lot of points of view, which you always, you often do, and a little bit of of a mystery, which actually, I've seen you do before, and then you've got a podcast going on so that you can have different people show show off what's happening. I guess I was hoping you would talk about the evolution of style, um, actually, over your whole career, sort of from, like, I'm writing a kind of a basic book with a couple of points of view and third person close, or maybe first person to these bigger, bigger stories with so much more to so much more to offer the reader. That's a really big question. Start wherever you want.Meg Mitchell MooreThat's a great question. I I don't know if it has been such an evolution. I have always written multiple points of view to the point where it makes me crazy. And I wish I could. I wish I could do one or two. I really wish I could. I've tried it. I can't do it. I just can't. My brain doesn't work that way. It's I can't do it. So even my very first novel, which I published in 2011 it was called The Arrivals, that was a much smaller story. So yes, I for sure, I've evolved plot wise, but I remember, and this was when I was brand new and did not know what I was doing, and I was just trying to figure out how to write a novel. I had so many points of view. And I remember my now agent. Maybe she was not my agent then and was becoming my agent, or maybe she was already my agent, but I remember her saying, we have to take out at least like five of these points of view. And it's still, it still has a lot. I just that's how I think those are the kind of books I like to read, usually, not always, for one thing, but it just. Must be how I think I'm always in everybody's head, and it's really hard for me to restrain that. So this book, I don't think, has any more points of view than any other. Might have fewer than some. It does have a mystery.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah it might, then some that I've read, I guess I I, I saw it as different, maybe in part because of the the use of the podcast to frame things.Meg Mitchell MooreYeah that's new. And then it's a bigger, you know, it's a bigger idea. It's a, it's not a retelling of The Great Gatsby, because I don't like to use that word, but it is inspired by The Great Gatsby. So it has definitely some bigger I was looking at bigger themes, maybe from the start. A lot of times I back my way into the themes based on what my characters are doing. I don't always start with the themes, but this time i i was looking at some of those big whether, what's the American dream and what does success mean, and how does money equate with happiness, and some of those bigger questions. And I don't always do that. I might do it in reverse, but I don't always do that first. So I do think it has bigger theme wise, it's bigger maybe plot wise, yeah. And some of the elements, some of the elements that move it along, are a little different. I was working with a new editor for the first time for this. This is my first full book with my new editor. So I think that had something to do with it too, because I think she was probably pushing me for some of those elements that don't come naturally to me, which I think ended up being good for the book.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, it's a little more thriller. Isn't exactly the right word, but there's definitely a page turning mystery in there. I know here's, this is like a so there's a page turning mystery in Mansion Beach, and the question all along for the reader, like, you know somebody is going to die. But I at least did not know who, but I had an advance, and it came as a as a digital book, so I didn't have the cover and I didn't have the blurb on the back, if a reader has those things, are they gonna know?Meg Mitchell MooreInteresting.KJ Dell'AntoniaAre they gonna know? Who it is that that dies?Meg Mitchell MooreI don't think so. I don't think so. The people I know who have read it both ways, I think have not known.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat's good.Meg Mitchell MooreIt's sort of that white lotus effect, you know, for White Lotus fans out there, where there is a mystery, and you care about the mystery, but you also it matters, but it doesn't matter as much as what's going on with everybody else. So I really like that as a framing device. I like watching it and reading it. And I tried it myself this time. I did it a little bit in two truths and a lie as well. I guess that's my only other one that has a dead body, and a lot of people are mad at me for who the person was who died, which I want. And two truths...KJ Dell'AntoniaDon't give it up.Meg Mitchell MooreNo, I won't. So that was interesting, so I hadn't tried it again, and this time I went in a little nervous, because people had been upset with me, particularly my husband. But I I still, I mean, I had the chance not to do what I did in two truths and a lie, and I still chose to. So I still, for me, it was the right thing, but it was an interesting experience. And I didn't try it again for a couple books. And this time I did also because I was playing with some of the Gatsby themes. I mean, Gatsby has three bodies, so I thought, I mean, I should have at least one, so I won't, yeah, I won't give anything away about…KJ Dell'AntoniaNo, don't.Meg Mitchell MooreWho or what or how, but I did enjoy having that as a device to propel it now that also, I don't think that was in the first draft. I don't think there was a body in the first draft. I mean, there were huge changes in this book, and I think that was one of them. I think we decided we needed the body after one draft.KJ Dell'AntoniaWow. Okay, now I'm deeply fascinated, and of course, I'm trying. So I'm trying to make this interesting and useful for those of you who haven't read the book, although you could also stop, go get the book, and read it, and then listen to this, and then it would be even better.Meg Mitchell MooreThat is true.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah. Okay, so let me just start by saying I am actually not a person who typically likes a book where your whole like, like, the question is, you know, either who died or who did it. So Lucy Foley, I've enjoyed some of those, but it's not necessarily my favorite go to genre, but the thing that made this book work great for me was exactly what you just said, that there's so much more to it. You I could see that this story would exist before you added that and that. I mean, that's so cool. And then I also, I'm not a Gatsby person, so neither of those would like, neither of those hooks is going to grab me. But what grabbed me, I think, was the different women, different versions of the American dream.Meg Mitchell MooreMm-hmm.KJ Dell'AntoniaIs that where you started?Meg Mitchell MooreI started… Yeah, I think so I would. Really, yes, I wanted to really look at notions of success, particularly for women today. You know, it's contemporary. It takes place that, you know, in the summer that is coming out, or that, if you actually match up the dates, and I think I messed up the tides and the moon in some places, but it's the summer. So yes, I was very interested in those questions. I was I wanted to have a love triangle, because I think that's interesting, and that's part of Gatsby too. So it's funny that you say you're not a Gatsby person. I think my first, another change from my first draft, was very Gatsby heavy. I think I tried to, I think it just was, I was trying too hard to to do the same thing. And…KJ Dell'AntoniaIt's kind of a reverse-gendered Gatsby.Meg Mitchell MooreIt is, yes, it's reverse gendered. But what I was doing was just, I was just trying to, I don't know what I was doing, but it was a mess. I mean, I always knew I wanted to play with Gatsby, but I tried to do it too closely. And I tried a little first person with the narrator, which that's how Gatsby is told, but I can't write him. Can't write successfully in first person. So that was a mess. And I remember that my editor probably looked at this thing and said, This is what are we doing? But what she said to me nicely was, you need to, like, don't worry so much about Gatsby at all, like you need to free yourself from those constraints, and you need to write the story. And that was the best advice, because that's when it started to come together. So it's more that Gatsby was a jumping off point, and some of those themes, I was so interested in how those themes are so relevant 100 years later, and they are, so I think I needed that as a jumping off point, but I didn't need to, you know, retell it scene by scene, or try to have the narrator feel the same, or do anything like that. And I had some missteps along the way before I figured that out.KJ Dell'AntoniaIt interests me that this doesn't seem to have taken any longer than your other books, did it?Meg Mitchell MooreUh, I felt like it took forever. My books have come out either with note with, you know, a year and then the next summer, or with two summers in between. This one has, this one has an empty summer in between. So I did need that extra writing time for this. And I remember, I always start out thinking I could do this in a year. I'll absolutely and I always hit. I'm a deadline hitter. You know, I always hit the deadlineKJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, you give them something.Meg Mitchell MooreYeah, I was a journalist for a long time. I just, I'm not late on things. I just always, I'm just, I always hit my deadlines, but it might be awful. And so this was nobody actually. I mean, it was pretty awful when I think back to that first draft, and I think that my editor and Agent thought, okay, we can do this. And I looked at it, and I looked at my schedule and my life and my brain, and I thought, I don't think I can do it very well. So we put it off for a year, which gave me not a year's writing time, but maybe six months that I hadn't had. And that made a big difference. So this one took a little longer. Same thing with vacation land. I had the exact same thing happen where I thought it was going to come out one summer, it came out the next summer, but Summer Stage and then the book coming out, if I finish it next summer, will have no extra time in between. So it kind of, I've gone both ways with it.KJ Dell'AntoniaDo you see any like consistency in why? Or it just sort of either happens that way or it doesn't?Meg Mitchell MooreI think I when I try bigger, when I try bigger books, I need more time, as it should be, but I always think I can do it. You know, I'm patience is not, is not my best quality. Impatience is my worst quality. So I find that I'm usually impatient to get something done or to hit the deadline or to put the book out, and I have to slow myself down when necessary, and vacation land. It was a different editor, same publisher, but different editor. I remember her saying, having that talk with me and saying, it will be a much better book. If we put it out the following year, it will be so much better. And she was right. So we needed that time.KJ Dell'AntoniaI so totally relate to this.Meg Mitchell MooreDo you?KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm in the middle of it. Now, if anybody who's listening is also listening to our what the books are writing the books, what the books also like? It's a little mini series where one of my co-hosts is writing nonfiction and I'm writing fiction, and we're trading pages, and we're doing a weekly series of conversations. And this week's realization was, I have always known that I'm writing a story with multiple points of view, but I couldn't start it that way. I had. I had to start it with just this one protagonist. And then I thought, Oh, well, then it'll just be that, and it'll probably be really easy. Look, I've got this all planned out. I'm just gonna write. I'm just gonna, oh, I'll bet I can get, what if I got my agent a draft this summer? Hahaha, it's, you know, it's not good, but I'm so impatient. I want ...Meg Mitchell MooreRight, right. Well, I was listening to one of your to your podcast the other yesterday, and it was the one where you were talking about your story idea starting. How do you, how do you ideate the book?KJ Dell'AntoniaOh, gosh.Meg Mitchell MooreAnd you so you write a book, and then you present it to your agent, and then you sell it, right? So…KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah.Meg Mitchell MooreThat's your process. So I'm the opposite, where I write, I get the contract first, and then I have to write the book. And I don't know which is harder, because you don't have a built in deadline. You have your own deadlines that you said, but you're writing something that you said. Maybe this will sell, maybe it won't, I don't know, whereas I know it will eventually be published, but I also have that pressure of I have to get things in on time. So what do you think is, what's better? What's worse?KJ Dell'AntoniaI don't know. I envy your... I envy that way. I feel like that would make me feel more secure, more professional. My, my agent, doesn't… she's very against selling a book of mine, at least before I've written it, because she says, I'll, she says I might change it, and then, and then, it won't be what we sold or I won't be happy. So so I don't know if she's I think she's just against it as a general rule, but I know lots of agents that that do it, and I know a lot of of writers that do it. Sometimes I look at this and I'm like, you know, I could do a proposal. Maybe we could sell it. I could get some money. That would be lovely, right? Yeah. But...Meg Mitchell MooreI see, I see your point, and I know a lot of people think that way. I remember a long time ago when I'd either published, I think I'd published no novels. Maybe my book was about to be published, my first novel, and I heard Ann Patchett speak at a conference, and she said, she said that she would never take money for a book she hadn't written.KJ Dell'AntoniaWow.Meg Mitchell MooreAnd I remember thinking, Oh, well, if that's what Ann Patchett says, I guess that's what like, that's how the world is. But I disagree, like I disagree, because for me, first of all, she has a different life situation, but for me to keep income coming in steadily, because this is my only job, I feel like that's the way to do it. And I also feel like other industries, like my husband doesn't only get paid when he goes to the board meeting. He's getting paid every other week for his job that he does for the company that he works for. And so to try to approximate a little bit of a normal salary, I feel like that's the way to do it. But then I also see the other side, and I see why Ann Patchett wouldn't do it, because she's Ann Patchett, you know, so she can take whatever time she needs...KJ Dell'AntoniaSee that's so funny. Because I think, well, you can do this because you're Meg Mitchell Moore, and Meg Mitchell Moore is going to sell and a KJ Dell'Antonia, one of them will, and the others somewhat less, so at least that's my my record at the moment. So I guess we just all see each other differently. My co-host Sarina sells on proposal.Meg Mitchell MooreOkay, so fiction, that's fiction?KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, yeah. She sold thrillers and romances that way. Okay, so she has a bigger track record. But also, I've known people, you know, I guess there's just different ways of of of doing it. And I would not say that I chose this. It chose me.Meg Mitchell MooreInteresting, but there was always that chance. I mean, my agent... If I said to my agent, I don't want to sell till I write, she would say, Great, that might be better for both of us. We'll probably sell it for more, because you might write something really good, but I just don't want to take that. I'm too impatient, you know, I'm just Yes, maybe, if, you know, maybe if I had, you know, had some big blockbuster, and then I thought, Okay, now for two years, it doesn't matter what's coming in, because I'm getting money from that book, that would be different. But, um, that's not how it works for most people.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, and maybe I would feel less impatient with getting this done if I weren't like, I want to get to the point where I know if we're going to sell like, I wrote a whole thing last summer, and it never got to the point that we felt like we could sell it, and I I'm sick of it. I can't write it anymore. I'm done with it. I mean, maybe I'll come back to it, but, yeah, right. And like, I've had, you know, a freelance editor at it who's really good. My agent's been at it. I finished it like three times, and apparently it still sucks. So I'm done.Meg Mitchell MooreSo that's interesting, because I always think that I would not be writing good books if I didn't know if my editor gets a very messy draft, and all of my editors have gotten bad dress and really helped me. And without that step, I don't think I would ever write a book that could even be sold. So I feel like I need to know, okay, somebody else who is better at this is going to be helping me really soon. I just need to get through it.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat's that would be amazing. I don't think my editor cares enough about me to do that. So...Meg Mitchell MooreOh, my editor would absolutely prefer a cleaner draft. Like, no question. I mean, she would be delighted if I showed it to five people and got feedback, but I'm always in a rush. So I'm like, here you're the first reader. Here you go. She's like, thank you.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, that's my agent. I'll be like, Look, I'm done it's great! and She's no... it is great, but you know what would be really great? Poor agent. Yeah, okay. So, so we're we're both impatient, but we're doing this in in very different ways. Well, now I want to hear more about that. How do you go from a first draft with no body, to a final draft where the body, it's definitely one of the things that's pushing people to turn the page. It's not the only thing. So maybe that's the good news of not having started with a body. Also, did you know whose body it was?Meg Mitchell MooreUm, we discussed because, yeah, I mean, we discussed a little bit about it. I remember thinking, Could it be this person? And here's why we wouldn't want that person. Could it be this person? So we had some discussion. I didn't write it. I once I knew who it was. I didn't write multiple versions of it. I always had that person. But, and I guess I just think of it as more of a framing device than anything, and a framing device, you can add the frame later.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah.Meg Mitchell MooreSo the middle was mostly what was happening, was happening, and then there was this framing device and and then there are certain things at the end that kind of came together. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this makes it all come together. But I didn't know that in the beginning. And that was so you may be late.KJ Dell'AntoniaDid you not know how the body became a body?Meg Mitchell MooreAh, that changed. There was...KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, I could see that.Meg Mitchell MooreAnd then I thought, oh my gosh, this is kind of what I needed to pull together all those themes. It was those exciting moments that really don't happen very often.KJ Dell'AntoniaOh, I bet and I mean, I can see it from the outside as a reader. It really did. It made it like your ending is one of those endings that changes the whole, your whole reading experience for the better, right? Not that it wasn't a great reading experience the whole time. You know, sometimes somebody doesn't stick the landing, and then you're like, yeah, no, I don't really want to recommend this. I mean, it was fine, right? But, and sometimes it's just great. It's like, solid. You're happy, yay. Okay, that's a good, it's a good. Yours colors the entire like, if I were somebody who would go back and reread it, would color the entire experience differently.Meg Mitchell MooreOh, Thank you!KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, which is cool, yeah, very cool.Meg Mitchell MooreNow, when I wrote Vacationland, I started with a body, and the body came out. So I had the opposite experience, where I thought I was writing a thriller. The whole time. I was like, this is going to be my thriller. There's a body. And I had it all. And to me, it made sense. It all tied up, and my different editor, but my then editor said, I like everything but the body.KJ Dell'AntoniaWow.Meg Mitchell MooreWe had to keep it was first it was a an important body, and then it was a less important body, and then it became the body of a seal, because I had to have just a scene of children looking at something they found in the water in the very beginning. And so it was a body, and then it was a seals body. This time. I got to keep my body at least.KJ Dell'AntoniaSo I love this also, because you haven't been, um, pigeonholed into a genre that involves bodies or doesn't involve bodies. Has that been a thing as you've as you've gone from book to book where people are like, well, I don't know… Meg, people don't really want you to kill people or the, you know, the opposite. Well, I don't know, people are kind of looking for some more thrills from you.Meg Mitchell MooreWell, Vacationland. I remember that editor said they don't, we don't want this from you. We want, we don't want. We want a summer book. We don't want. We're not looking for a thriller. You know, they had other thrillers. You know what? They're doing their own end of the business, too. So they definitely said that this time. I mean, I feel like I'm not pigeonholed, but categorized as beach as a beach book. But I think within beach books you can do all of those things. Yeah. So if I were to write a giant thriller that I said, I think this should come out in the fall, and it's a big book, I that's when they would probably say, I don't know if your audience, if you have the audience, right, pull that off unless the book is amazing, you know? I do feel like I need to come out in the summer to keep my readers.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, I actually love that. That beach book is a You're right. It's a pretty big genre. It encompasses a lot. It encompasses a lot of of things, the only requirement being that it's, you know, entertaining, which, as far as I'm concerned, is a book requirement anyway. But...Meg Mitchell MooreRight, right. It is interesting because my books also happen to usually take place on beaches, but not all beach books do. So it is, it has become a very big category and competitive like you also want to stand out in that category, because there are so many books with the word summer in the title or the word beach in the title, or this. Actually, this cover is a departure for me, which I love, because I feel like I have done the just the oceanscape or the main or the woman looking at the water. I've had those kinds of covers.KJ Dell'AntoniaIt's your first... It's, it's, it's a cartoony cover. I don't, I don't mean that it, you know that sounds Yeah, it's almost a romancy cover. But there's only one person. First. I'm just so you guys should, it'll, it'll be in the show notes. You should, you should take a look, because you're right. It is a departure. I see, yeah, I see what you're saying there. But this one's, it's a hardback, right?Meg Mitchell MooreYes.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah. Have all your books come out first in hardback?Meg Mitchell MooreThey have, yep.KJ Dell'AntoniaNice, cool.Meg Mitchell MooreHave yours?KJ Dell'AntoniaNo, none.Meg Mitchell MooreNone? Okay, now, what do you now…? Do you think that… that, I sometimes I feel like that's a great thing too.KJ Dell'AntoniaI go back and forth on that. My agent is bummed about it. But for me, it's frankly, much easier to, like, go out to everyone and be like, spend $18 versus be like spend $38.Meg Mitchell MooreI agree.KJ Dell'AntoniaSo I haven't minded. Oh, and I was at the Newburyport Book Festival a few years ago, and they accidentally got my second book only in hard book, because it was, it came out in hardback and paperback at the same time, which there was a moment of about six months when publishers were doing that, and then they stopped and they only had the hardback. And I was like, Oh, I don't even want anyone to buy that. Like that, isn't I would be mad if I bought a hardback...Meg Mitchell MooreRight, right.KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd then the next day, I was at the store and was like, hey!?Meg Mitchell MooreRight, yeah, it's interesting, because I do actually love… because I bought your book The Chicken Sisters this weekend, in paperback, and I love, I love paperback, yeah, I love it.KJ Dell'AntoniaFor travel…?Meg Mitchell MooreLighter, yeah, and I think it is appealing. It's so interesting. I mean, I remember Emily Henry's first couple, at least, came out paperback, and then now that she can sell so well, they now they come in hardcover, but I still feel like...KJ Dell'AntoniaI look at them and I'm like, I don't want that that way. Now, I'll just buy a digital version, because I don't that's not…Meg Mitchell MooreRight? Right. It's really interesting. And I know I don't understand the sales end of it, the way that the people who are doing the job do, and the profits and the margin and all that. But I kind of feel like, why isn't everything in paperback right away? You know?KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, no, I feel the same way. And and also people's, especially now we're thinking, we're talking about beach books. Some people's beach I mean, if my beach vacation is an airplane beach vacation, I might bring one hardback, maybe...Meg Mitchell MooreRight.KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd maybe, probably not, because I'm a fast reader, I could easily eat that on the plane, and then there I would be. So...Meg Mitchell MooreRight.KJ Dell'AntoniaI don't know.Meg Mitchell MooreRight, yeah.KJ Dell'AntoniaI guess that's what e-readers are for.Meg Mitchell MooreThat's true.KJ Dell'AntoniaWell, I mean, gosh, I could probably talk to you about in depth, about the writing of this for about 12 hours. Because, okay, one one last thought. So listeners, Meg writes like we said, in multiple points of view. Talk to me about how you know when to change the point. You know what point of view a scene should be told from?Meg Mitchell MooreYeah, I don't. I'm it's so much. I do so much rewriting, a lot of that. I mean, I'm just thinking, I just turned in a draft yesterday of, hopefully next summer's novel, and I that is also multiple points of view. It's, I think it's mostly three, it's three adult sisters and they each have a point of view. There might be a couple little scattered things, but when I look back, I think I need to probably adjust, even in the draft I just turned in, I think I'm a little heavily weighted toward one over the other, so I don't always know. I just go on gut and instinct, and then I fix it later, which is how I do almost everything. I just go by instinct, and it's usually wrong And I change it later.KJ Dell'AntoniaSo, you'll, you'll be like, you've written a scene, and the point of view of one person, you realize, oh, either it's the other person's turn to have some more time, or I need their inner thoughts, not this person's inner thought...Meg Mitchell MooreRight. Yeah, its not very organized.KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd sometimes you drop in like, you know, a kid on a beach or something, is that when you need something to happen that you that your protagonists don't know? Or just, you just feel like?Meg Mitchell MooreI think, I think it's fun. I just think it's fun sometimes to have this person you haven't heard from and you won't hear from again. But a lot I probably did. I probably do that. It probably gets taken out 80% of the time when I do that, because usually it doesn't make sense. But I just wanted to do it. I did it in my book. I just turned in and the first this scene between the a realtor and her husband, the realtor who's selling this house that these people are in. She doesn't matter to the book, but I just really wanted to write the scene of her and her husband, and I even wrote in the draft. I know this doesn't make sense, and my editor said, Yeah, this doesn't make sense. Like, you either need more of them, or they need to go. I don't know what they're...KJ Dell'AntoniaDo you ever give them away for? Like, you know, here's your pre order bonus. Read this extra scene…Meg Mitchell MooreI should do that. Maybe I'll do that. They'll do that. I have never done that, but maybe I will. But I feel like, I think it might be Anne Tyler. I remember reading an interview. Is she the one who does the strings like she has strings with different?KJ Dell'AntoniaMaybe, i don't know.Meg Mitchell MooreEvery character has a different colored string, and then she pulls down the red one because it's the red, you know, that's how she knows who she's writing. And I thought that was really cool, but I've never done it.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat sounds like a lot of work.Meg Mitchell MooreI guess.KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd, like, I would need a different…I need a bulletin board. Okay.Meg Mitchell MooreYeah, I don't know where you, where I would hang it from, but it's just seems kind of nice to think, then maybe...KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah it does.Meg Mitchell MooreShe knows if she's done the right amount for everybody.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, The Chicken Sisters is alternating points of view. And I just, I just alternated. And then sometimes that was a problem, and I had to figure out, like, how to get somebody's feelings? Yeah? So....Meg Mitchell MooreYeah, it's confusing. I don't know why I do it to myself, because sometimes I'll just read a perfectly, a book that's just perfectly written in first person. I'm trying to think of an example right now, because I don't even always read that much in first person, but like, Yellowface? … Yellowface. Okay, that book was so, like, simple in a way, but I love I loved it. I thought it was brilliant, and it was all just this point of view, and...KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd didn't you occasionally get, like a newspaper article? I think...Meg Mitchell MooreMaybe, maybe.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat must have been what she did when she had something her person couldn't know.Meg Mitchell MooreYeah. I guess, yeah. I guess, technically, it would be harder to do it all from one because you how do they know everything? But I feel like I get lost, like I have trouble. I literally lose the plot, because I'm just this person's off doing something in their day that might have nothing to do with what's going on. I get really caught up in that kind of stuff, and that's what I have to edit out.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, I'm always trying not to do that. I'll sit there while I'm writing, like, No, do not let them move their coffee cup. They can move the coffee cup in a later draft, if the coffee cup is still here, if they're even still in this coffee shop, if this coffee shop even exists. But I can't seem to stop it. My my like, default mode is, you know, he said while taking a sip and burning his lip or whatever, right? Just, I can't seem to not do it.Meg Mitchell MooreYeah, but sometimes that's where you get the gold too, because you wrote all that, and maybe that one sentence is the thing that you needed. So it's just the process.KJ Dell'AntoniaYeah, it is. It's just the process, and it's longer than we hope and slower than we hope...Meg Mitchell MooreAlways...Always. Yes.KJ Dell'AntoniaAnd more, and more revising. Well, do you have any, like, genius words about revision for people? Because it sounds like you do a lot of it.Meg Mitchell MooreI do a lot of it. I think just is so important. It's just so for me, it's so important. I just think nobody gets it right. I hope nobody gets it right the first time. Because if they do, I'm really jealous, but I think for the most part, nobody gets it right the first time. So revision is, I mean, I'd say I spent almost as much time on the revision I probably do as I do on the first draft.KJ Dell'AntoniaDo you still lie to yourself in the first draft and let yourself pretend it's going to be right?Meg Mitchell MooreOh yeah. I always think, Oh, this is the time I did it, I nailed it, and then I get my editorial letter, and it's like, great start. Here's the 700 things that you need to do now.KJ Dell'AntoniaWell, thank you. I feel better. I hope everyone else does too.Meg Mitchell MooreYeah, it's a long process.KJ Dell'AntoniaIt really is, all right. Well, this was fantastic. I really enjoyed it.Meg Mitchell MooreYeah, me too.KJ Dell'AntoniaAs we hit the end of any episode, we always like to ask people what they've been reading. So I hope I'm not springing that on you.Meg Mitchell MooreNo, I just I always have an audio book going and a regular book going on audio I just started the Emily Henry, the new Emily Henry, which I've never listened to her books. I've always read them, and I know that Julia, the famous Julia Whelan, is always her narrator, so and she's phenomenal. So I'm loving the audio version, which is just funny that I've never done it with Emily Henry before.KJ Dell'AntoniaDid you listen to Julia Whelan's book that she wrote herself?Meg Mitchell MooreMhmm.KJ Dell'AntoniaThat was so fascinating, because it really was different, like I actually read it, but I could feel the… yeah. Anyway, okay.Meg Mitchell MooreOh, you should go back and also listen. It's so it's such a good audio book.KJ Dell'AntoniaI bet.Meg Mitchell MooreYeah, it was fantastic. And then I'm reading a novel called The Road to Dalton that my friend Hannah, who owns the Book Shop of Beverly Farms in Beverly Farms, Massachusetts, phenomenal store recommended to me. So I bought it last time I was there, and it is about a bunch of people in a small town in Maine, which is my vibe immediately I was in. But it's very good. So I'm reading that. I can't, I can't remember the author, which is unusual for me, but Shannon something I think [Shannon Bowring].. But it's The Road to DaltonKJ Dell'AntoniaThat's okay. I will find it well. As everyone is gathered, I just finished Mansion Beach. I I really loved it. It was a rare book that I loved even more when I got to the end of it. And, yeah, it was amazing. And also in that, that vibe, that sort of small town Maine and yet, but this is like small island, middle of the Atlantic. Welcome to Glorious Tuga. Have you heard of this one?Meg Mitchell MooreNo. I've never heard of it.KJ Dell'AntoniaOkay, so it's a tiny island settled 300 years ago by a miscellanea of Dutch and British and and African people didn't have any locals. So that's kind of and they have formed the society. It's only open for half the year, because you can't, like, get a boat into it, because storms and currents and whatnot. So this woman has gone thinking that she's going to study the native tortoise population all Darwin, but she gets there and they're like, great. You're a vet. That's what we need. So it's kind of like all creatures great and small meets...I don't even know what it meets yet, I got to come up with that. But it's really a lot of fun. And it's very multi it's multi POV in a really interesting way, because you're with her, and then sort of whenever you kind of get a little interested in someone else, you're like, Oh, why are they doing that? Then maybe you'll switch to their POV. it's really, I really enjoyed it so, so that was fun. So those are my ranks, all right. Well, thank you so much, listeners for joining us, and thank you, Meg for joining me today. Where can people follow you? Where's the best?Meg Mitchell MooreMostly on Instagram @Meg Mitchell Moore, I'm on Facebook, but I don't use it very often and I kinda want to leave it. So…I also just read the Facebook, the Facebook memoir.KJ Dell'AntoniaOh yeah?Meg Mitchell MooreNo, I really want to leave Facebook, but also I know that they own Instagram. So anyway, Instagram is the best place to find me, and I was so happy to be here. Thank you. It was really fun.KJ Dell'AntoniaThis was super. Okay. Thanks everyone for listening, and until next week, keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game.Sarina BowenThe hashtag am writing podcast is produced by Andrew Perella. Our intro music, aptly titled unemployed Monday was written and played by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their time and their creative output, because everyone deserves to be paid for their work. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Taken from the fun-filled live broadcast that aired Monday, May 26th on Mix985.ca. The show airs live each and every Monday night at 6pm ET / 730pm NL on www.mix985.ca. This exciting show features brand new music from MacKenzie Critch, Kim Hamlyn, Joshua Sheppard, Tony Randell, Bill Drake, Rev. Dave and the Sin Eaters, Elizabeth Sheppard and Silver Wolf Band.There was also this thrilling announcement of this band, you may know them, The Celtic Connection Band? Hahaha, they will be here in Waterloo for the first time in over 20 years at Maxwell's Concerts & Events. Tickets are now on sale and opening for them are none other than NL greats living here in ON, Poverty's Arse and Mainland Kitchen Band. This epic, fun-packed event takes place, November 8, and we are calling it Up From Home 2025.Up From Home 2025 | The Celtic Connection, Waterloo, ON live at Maxwell's Concerts & Events - November 8, 2025Don't forget to subscribe and follow to stay up to date on all the excitement! You know that the songs in the New Music Monday are part of the voting for the exclusive all NL music monthly top 10, brought to you by East & Nowhere Songsmiths.Another fun way to listen to the many genres of NL music is to go to link below and start listening to Jigs & Reels Radio KW and there you will have the only radio station playing upwards of 5000 exciting songs from NL in rotation from yesterday, today and tomorrow. Jigs And Reels Radio KW - Free Internet Radio - Live365Let's go

"Du denkst du machst Kampfschaden? HAHAHA, NEIN!" So oder so ähnlich spielt man einen Fog-Effekt. Welche es so gibt und welche in meinen Augen die besten sind, erfahrt ihr in dieser Episode.Commander Amateur auf:⁠⁠Twitch⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Moxfield⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Discord-Server der PodRiders⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PodRiders wird ausgestattet von Shure. Bist du auf der Suche nach hochwertigem Audio-Equipment? Dann folge diesem Link: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shu.re/3zdcJUV⁠⁠⁠⁠

Hello lovely friends,Welcome to the very first edition of The Sketchbook Dispatch! I'll be sharing one of these each month — a mix of what I've been working on in my sketchbooks and a spotlight on the incredible things our Creating Wild community has been dreaming up, sketching out, and bringing to life inside our member space.Honestly, I'm in awe. There's something so nourishing about being surrounded by curious, magical minds, and it's such a joy to be able to share even a small piece of their work with you.Alongside their creations, I'm also giving you a little peek into my own process this month. A video walk-through of my sketchbooks — eclectic, evolving, and full of both fast timed sketches (that challenge my recovering perfectionist tendencies) and slower, more thoughtful explorations (my preferred modus operandi!). I've been feeling a real pull toward “slow art” lately, but also experimenting with quicker studies to loosen things up for my illustrated work.If I had to name a theme that's emerged through all of this, it would be permission — giving myself the space to try something new (like storytelling through illustrated essays) and letting delight lead the way, even if it means stepping off the well-worn path or confronting what I thought I was and wasn't “good at.”So, with that, I hope you enjoy the video. Let's dive into what our amazing community has been creating.Before I send you off into the wild...If you'd like to be part of the Creating Wild community, you can learn more about it here. We've built a private, cozy corner away from the noise of social media. A space to explore creativity together through monthly workshops, weekly prompts, and a shared practice studio where you can connect, ask questions, and share what you're working on. We'd love you to be a part of it.

How do you lead change when you’re not the boss? Casey Sinnema shares what it takes to build trust, influence outcomes, and make Monday feel a little less dreadful. Overview What happens when you give a self-proclaimed utility player the freedom to poke holes in broken systems and lead cross-functional change without official authority? In this episode, Scott chats with Casey Sinema about navigating ambiguity, building trust without a title, and leading impactful change through curiosity, clarity, and a deep understanding of what people actually need. References and resources mentioned in the show: Casey Sinnema Wolf Pack by Abby Wombach The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins Micromanagement Log Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Join the Agile Mentors Community Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum. Casey Sinnema is a self-described utility player who’s built a career by asking great questions, poking holes in broken systems, and leading meaningful change across teams—without ever needing the official title to do it. With a background in accounting and a talent for cross-functional problem solving, she brings curiosity, empathy, and real-world savvy to every challenge she tackles. Auto-generated Transcript: Scott Dunn (00:01) Well, welcome everyone to another episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast. I am your takeover, not your normal host, of Brian Miller, who's done a smash up job over a hundred plus episodes if you haven't checked those out. But part of the podcast takeover was not only a fresh voice, but also perspective and a lot of what I typically focus on for the people who know me. On leadership and culture and leading change. And I thought of no one better that I'd rather talk to about some of this. Casey Sinnema and I'll give you a little bit of introduction about who she is, what she does. Maybe also I think it'd be fascinating Casey on how you yourself in the role that you have. I think it's kind of a cool role, at least on paper. You can flesh that out a little bit more but I'll hand off to you. Tell us a little about yourself. Casey (00:46) Yeah, hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, so I currently am most often referred to as a utility player. And I'm still trying to figure out my elevator speech for how I talk about what I do because my role, my title is manager, which doesn't say much, right? And I actually don't do a function, but the easiest way to talk about it is I'm a project manager of sorts. I'm involved in a wide variety of projects from a varying level of involvement, from leading the project to leading the change to being a key stakeholder to just being the voice to leaders or executives or that type of thing. So yeah, I am a little bit of everything. And I got here on accident. I have... Scott Dunn (01:32) I was... Casey (01:34) You know, way back in the day when I was, you know, doing the like, what am I going to do for the rest of my life? I'm like, I just want a marketable skill. So I have a business degree and I went into accounting and I quickly became the troubleshooter. So I would go into a company, troubleshoot, fix the process, fix something broken, and then find myself in another company doing the same thing. And, so throughout my career, I've just sort of built this unique set of skills that allow me to poke holes in processes. and help companies fix them and then kind of find the next thing. So that's just kind of how I wound up here. I've been at my current company for almost a decade, which is going to be a record for me. And, but I'm still doing the same thing. I'm moving around the company and finding new places to, you know, rock the boat a little bit. Scott Dunn (02:20) Cool. Very cool. Yeah. It does sound like you have a number of things on your place to where that makes kind of expand on that a little bit and where you comfortably share those stories as we go through some of this because there's a lot, there's a lot more underneath based on what Casey shared before. And I love it that you found yourself like a happy accident and I guess have enough challenges and learning and growth there as long as they move you around that you're, you know, you need to be working on that are meaningful. things to be working on. Casey (02:51) Yeah, absolutely. That's the biggest thing, right? Is to like find work that you find valuable and that has an impact on the people around you, which is, know, squarely aligned with my values. Scott Dunn (03:01) Well, you touched on one thing that I know a number of other people could relate to and I could too as well as the kind of troubleshoots process can just easily see that things aren't working at a larger view. Some of that. maybe add on a little bit. What is it like about your role? For those who are kind of thinking they're in quasi space, they can hear you talk about that role and like, hey, that sounds like me too. What are the points of that different projects, different things you're involved with that that's what really lights you up? Casey (03:27) Yeah, I, it's so interesting because a lot of us find that the things that we're good at are the things that, you know, give us energy and that motivate us, right? I happen to be uniquely skilled at poking holes in things, including in my own life. So it works in my personal life as well. I could just sort of see things from different perspectives and find the gaps. And so it just sort of on accident. I think what's interesting is Scott Dunn (03:43) You Hmm. Casey (03:53) throughout my career and throughout my life, the biggest challenge has been to hone that skill for good, right? To lead with kindness and to manage my expectations along with the expectations of the world around me and troubleshoot the things or poke holes in things that need holes poked in instead of like everything. You know what mean? Scott Dunn (04:15) I love that. Two things that I want to, I guess, add on a little bit more there. One, you mentioned something and the other thing is I think you might just put out there like, same thing from different perspectives. I imagine for the people, we've all been around folks who just they only think their way. And you're just kind of reflecting on that. But Keith, it sounds like you can go into a meeting and you can hear three different state views and you can genuinely understand from their perspective why that's important to them or why that's a problem to them, right? If I'm hearing you. Casey (04:42) Yeah, absolutely. That's really key in all of the different types of projects that I've played a part in, right? Like hearing things from different people's perspectives and really understanding what they're looking to get, what they need and what's in it for them and being able to connect those things across stakeholders. Scott Dunn (04:59) Yeah, that's powerful. Yeah, but looking for commonality, alignment, et cetera. I do think there's a specialness, and we've talked about it a bit, like in the facilitation class, that looking for those folks having common and generating alignment is a unique gift that we just don't see a lot in corporate people kind of lobby for what they want. And actually, it's, it would be an afterthought to think about other people's perspectives and yet who draws different areas of the company together who are to get some new about the door or whatever like that. So you're kind of touching on that, which I think is really powerful. Is there anything that you see as like a go-to mindset that you bring in those situations or go to like tools that you're kind of using, whether that's things you're doing in writing down or in mural or even just how where your head is at when you walk into some of those meetings where you feel they have different perspectives and on the same page, you're supposed to walk out of that session on the same page. Casey (05:51) Yeah, the first one is to sort of leave my ego at the door, right? What I think is the right thing can't come in the door with me, right? Like I, of course I'm influencing, right? Where I feel like it matters. But it's not, I'm probably not the decision maker and the people that are not on the same page, when they need to get aligned, they need to be able to get there on their own. So what I think is the right way, I got to leave it at the door. So that's my number one thing. Scott Dunn (05:57) heheheheh. Casey (06:18) And then the next thing I do is just really stay curious, ask lots of questions, actively listen, model that active listening behavior so that everybody else is also actively listening. That's a big thing. And really just sort of helping people find a common language, I think, is really important. So I do a lot of restating what I'm hearing so that other people can maybe hear it from a different set of words and connect it. Scott Dunn (06:29) Hahaha Casey (06:42) more readily to the way that they're thinking about the topic. Scott Dunn (06:45) Yeah, you say these as if they're like, I mean those are short little pithy statements, but boy, powerful. I think it reflects an attitude beginning with what he said as the ego is like, we might know a whole lot, we gotta leave that at the door. Just at work, awesome. Here and you say something, I'm making notes like this would be good in life too, right? In personal life and relationships, stay curious, active. Don't assume that the way you see it is reality, right? So, I think that's super. The other thing you mentioned though was about Go ahead. Casey (07:17) I will say I'm better at it at my job than in my personal life because, Scott Dunn (07:23) Of course, I think, yeah, for everyone listening, they're like, me too. Why can't I do this? I can tell some stories. So the other one, though, you should just poke holes as if like, it's this little thing we're doing. But there might be something inside. I think I might be able to relate that is driving perhaps towards this isn't running as well as it could, or this isn't running. I think we know that, or this could be better. Something inside you that that you feel is churning, that you're seeing holes no matter what that is, if it's a small process, large process, a team, multiple teams. Tell me a little bit more about what does that mean to you when you say poke holes in things? What's running through your mind? Casey (08:01) Yeah, it's complex, right? Because sometimes it's really easy. This is broken. you know, right? Or there's a bottleneck, something that's really like you can, it's data driven, you can see in the data where something is not working well, that those are the easy ones, right? And you can just start asking sort of the five whys or the finding the root cause of what's happening there. Scott Dunn (08:06) Those are the easy ones, yes. Casey (08:26) But in the case where there's friction or there appears to be barriers or there's just this. any kind of challenge or even when there's not a challenge, quite frankly, I have this unique ability to like listen across people and across like data and technology. That's a weird thing to say is listen across technology, but I sort of just find where things are misconnected or disconnected and start to ask questions there. And so I can find something that maybe isn't working as well as it should without anybody else noticing which. Scott Dunn (08:35) Yeah. Casey (08:59) I've learned I need to be careful with. Scott Dunn (09:01) That's great. So at least the next question was any hard lessons, anything so you could do a redo on that one that you could pass on so someone else doesn't have to learn the hard way from Casey's experience. Casey (09:11) Ha yeah. Everything I learned, I learned the hard way. So if you feel like that's what you're doing, you're not alone. Yeah, the thing that I have learned probably the most often, and I will learn it several more times in my career, I'm sure, is when I think I have found something, go make sure it's true before you start to really socialize it. So like, I'm going to go ask the question of the expert. Scott Dunn (09:20) Ha Whoa. Casey (09:42) before I bring it up because maybe I'm not seeing it from all of the right angles or maybe I don't understand exactly what it's doing or quite frankly maybe I'm missing some context. And so really talking and building relationships with people who are experts on the topic or in the field is really kind of where I start. Scott Dunn (10:00) was great, great period. the number of times we miss out on relationships, especially in that one, really key. Casey (10:00) And. Yeah. Scott Dunn (10:08) I think I'd add to that though. sometimes I'll phrase it as rather wait to be sure than lose capital because if I go out saying things that aren't true. So sometimes we'll jump in on the outing side and they'll be like, why haven't you gotten yet? And I'll be clear, like, I'd rather wait and be sure than hurry and be wrong. And then we got to that mess before we get back to the work we're supposed to be doing. And sometimes it's a while to pick that up, depending on who got affected by We'll put out there sometimes innocuously, we thought, well, here's the numbers results. And someone's like, that's actually not correct. But now everyone knows we have now we have a PR problem, something like that. So I'm not alone in that. I've been there. That's a tough one. But also on the coin, though, what would you point to as wins if you look back like that's talking about? That's why this is important. That's what you feel good about. Casey (10:54) Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I think from a win perspective, the, a really good example, I'm going to go way back in the day. I had a, a chance to work, in a motorcycle dealership and we had huge, was, you know, weird economic times, right? And so there's weird financial things happening in this, you know, motorcycle dealership company and, and, everybody's just trying to stay afloat and You find the like the friction between either the mechanic shop and the, the sales shop. And when you find those and you can solve those problems and make the experience smooth for the, for the client, right. For the customer and make that like walk in the door experience consistent and smooth. This in this case was just people, right? It wasn't even technology. wasn't really a process. It was just people. And the biggest wins are when like. the people start to notice. And then what happens is everybody's life gets better and everybody has more fun doing whatever it is that they're doing. And it just changes the vibe. Scott Dunn (12:08) I love that. I love that. I do believe very much like the work that we could be doing here. People enjoy their work more people enjoy coming to work. doesn't have to be a place that people don't want to be in or watching the class. I love you touching on that's great. Casey (12:21) Yeah, there's a balance there, right? Like, because they call it work for a reason. It's a job. We don't love everything that we do all of the time. But, you know, are we doing the things that we can do to make life good for ourselves and for others? Scott Dunn (12:33) Yes, so nice segue because what I feel like I've learned later in my career, we'll just phrase it that way, that the importance of self-care, taking care of ourselves so that we have the energy and attitude to keep doing work that we're doing, especially if you're a leading changer, in some ways you're a change artist trying to bring that about, change agent, it can be taxing. So are there things along the way that are either You just know a good way that you take care of yourself could be learning, could be space, could be the road you carry, or that you actually do to protect yourself and that work-life balance emotionally, mentally. you aren't kind of aware of, what does it look like to do good self-care and help make sure you're taking care of yourself to deliver good value in the workplace. Share what that means to you and maybe some of the things that you do. Casey (13:21) Yeah, it's so important, right? Like I am also not in the early stages of my career and still learning how to take care of myself and protect myself and, you know, build good boundaries, right? I, yes, yes. So I have good personal routines, right? Like I do yoga, I meditate. I'm a big fan of podcasts and. Scott Dunn (13:31) Hahaha Right. Boundaries is a good word, yes. Casey (13:46) I'm a learner, so I'm always learning. Maybe there's a boundary there too, like how much can you self-improve before it becomes, I don't know, toxic? But when it comes to boundaries, really it's, I start with the relationships, right? Like at work, making sure that my expectations are clear and that of my leadership chain is clear no matter what job I'm in. Scott Dunn (13:47) Hmm. you Casey (14:11) and setting boundaries that are clearly expressed so that I can protect myself and my personal life and that balance, and I can deliver the way that I'm expected to deliver. And that just makes life easier for me. Scott Dunn (14:23) Super, super, super, super. I'm thinking there's a lot of people. I it's a ways back. We cover accommodative and assertive, you know, as far as power styles and the cowl. And what's been fascinating for all these years, most people are all on the accommodative side. When I hear you say something like, hey, the expectations clear or use the word bad, that sounds like someone who has a balance of, no, I'm there for people, but I don't overextend myself to where I no good. Casey (14:23) Thank Scott Dunn (14:50) I burned something like that. So I think that's really great for everyone to hear. It hurt to define the relationship with make sure your expectations are clear for me. And then sometimes, you know, there's someone else that could take that on or might play this role, etc. But sometimes we're so helpful that we overload ourselves and actually don't do good job. We do, you know, average job on a lot of things instead of a job on a few and they could have found maybe someone else. think that's awesome. You said podcasts, there other ways, is that your way of learning? there other things that you, as far as what, for the learning side? Casey (15:26) Yeah, so books are my go-to. I'm somebody who does a lot of highlighting and note taking and flagging in books, because I'm always going back to them. And I love to learn things that are sort of outside of my lane, if you will. It's kind of how I got involved in Agile. I have a business degree in finance, and Agile doesn't really play into that until it does, right? And so I started to like, I'm curious about that, or I'm curious about Six Sigma or those types of things. And so I just sort of go find them and take the nuggets that apply directly to me and put the other ones on the shelf for like when it does apply to me, if you know what I mean. Um, so I just, I'm a learner, so I'm always looking to, to, to learn new things. I'll be frank, podcasts for me, I'm not learning things. I'm entertaining myself. Scott Dunn (16:20) I try, I try to really be focused to get, I like listening, but yeah, the actually applying is not as much. I'm definitely same about I'm a higher. Someone said the difference in studying is the pin. So I'm always like, unless I'm marking it up, am I really digging into this book or, or Kendall? So I'm to hear I'm not alone on that one. So I want to shift a little bit because some of what we've done is leading change. think the conversation we had were around. Casey (16:38) Absolutely. Scott Dunn (16:45) So moving around from just you to the broader culture, how would you describe what a great culture like or feels like? Maybe some of us haven't even been in a great company so they don't know. They can't picture, imagine what that could be like. And you've been to a number of places with different roles. What's good culture, great culture look like in your opinion? Casey (17:06) Yeah, I think that it's gotta be a cliche out there. I'm pretty sure I've seen it on a meme, but good culture is defined by how you feel on Sunday night, right? Like if you're not dreading going into work on Monday, right? Like you probably are in a culture that's a good fit for you because I think culture doesn't have a one size fits all perspective. Like big companies, small companies, different types of work, different groups of people. sort of lend themselves to different kinds of culture. I've been in companies where the culture is great for me and everybody else is miserable. And companies where the culture is great for everybody else and I'm just not a good fit. So I think that in general, good culture is... I talk about it in this like self-awareness perspective. If the culture itself is a little bit self-aware, then it is what they say it is. So if you say your culture is one thing and everybody agrees, including the culture, including the behaviors of what's expected in the environment, if all of those things are aligned, the culture is probably good, even if there are people who aren't good fits for it. I don't know if that answers your question. That's my perspective. Scott Dunn (18:03) Hehehehe That's great. Oh, it's it's better. That one's a good wrap up now. Like that really to me, it's a bit of a mic drop because it's so good. It's simple. But you're right. How you feel on Sunday night? A ton about what's happening with you and the job you have and what's happening around you. Absolutely. And that different like sometimes it is just a fit because a lot of people can be excited about it, but you're bothered by it or might rub you wrong. And I know we've gone through the values in the class as well. I've been at companies where we're absolutely about get stuff done and that's fine. But it's kind of a burnout. I love the very collaborative, but sometimes I'm like, man, I want to get stuff done. I'm getting frustrated that we're like, we really connect and talk a lot. I don't see stuff happening. So you're right. Obviously, you know, some people are sensitive to that. And that last piece about like the behavior. it should be considered. And I do sometimes see like leadership will say something or there'll be things on the walls. But you look around like, yeah, I don't actually think anyone's actually behaving that way. It's like an aspirational vibe about what they want to be, but they're not really doing it. So I think all those lenses are giving are right. And they're simple. Someone can look around and just see what you're saying. And then you make their own calculations of that. Some of the good. Some of that's a bit too. Casey (19:26) Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Scott Dunn (19:32) In the sense like either either change it for the better or You know what I mean? Like I don't want to be the person that's been there seven like this place is terrible What are you doing? What why have you been here 17 years hating it? I don't Casey (19:32) you Yeah, it's really important that we're honest with ourselves as much as our companies are honest with us, right? Like, what do I need from my job? What do I need from my career? And am I at a place that can support that? Scott Dunn (19:45) Good. Yes. Yeah, and and i'll serious in this case. I think there is some point where people I hear them And i'll just straight up. I don't think leadership has any intention to changing in the way you're describing Right. So in the end like so what would you like to do? And it's not even like it's a bad thing really. It's just like that's like It's a bit when you said that part some people are so passionate they forget like Yeah, and you're wrong like you could be wanting this coming to change in a way. It's not who they are or what they're about or you're Found by 80 people who are actually quite good with the way things The fact that you're so passionate doesn't mean you're right. It might just mean this is not a good fit. So don't stay here trying to change everything, which probably wouldn't work anyways if that's, you know, they're comfortable with what are. It's almost like in self-preservation, just say, I just need to exercise my agency and there's not a good guy. What's that song? There Ain't No Good Guy, There Ain't No Bad Guy. It's me and you and we just disagree. You move on to another and they'll be happier somewhere else is what I would think. So I think that's a good perspective. People can get past space about, you know, and agile and all that and then rail against something that's an immovable in some organizations. Casey (21:08) Yeah, being aware of the things that you can control, the things that you can't control, is really the crux of your own sanity, if you will. Scott Dunn (21:16) Yeah, it's a good way of saying it, Yeah, and you can control a lot of that. You can influence it. can influence it. Let me follow up on that because clearly, in my opinion, seems like you've that about bringing about change when you don't necessarily have authority. You can't dictate to some of these folks. What do you think is a key aspect of being successful around influence or people who... I get asked this all the time, how do we influence, how do we manage up, et cetera. What would you prefer as your thoughts on that about influencing others? Casey (21:50) Yeah, I actually listened to a podcast recently about leading without influence. one of the key comments, I guess I am also learning through podcasts, I guess. But one of the comments in the podcast was there are people who lead with a hammer, people who lead with influence. And I kind of love that because I haven't been a people leader in more than a decade. Scott Dunn (21:55) There you go. So they are some good. Casey (22:13) which means I don't have any authority, right? I lead all of my influence. All of my leadership is through influence. And the way that I approach that is I start with. It's a, it's a gooey word, but empathy, understanding the people that I'm talking to and working with and understanding what they need and what their challenges are, and then meeting them where they are. Right. The easiest way to gain influence with. Most people, is to build trust and to build trust, need to build relationships. And so I would say 90 % of my influence comes first from relationships. And probably the other 10 % comes from my ability to stand up and say, I was wrong when I did something wrong or when my perspective was incorrect and when I behaved outside my values, like just owning it up when I'm like, Scott Dunn (22:59) Wow. Casey (23:04) Yeah, I was having a bad day. I apologize. There's a lot of trust that comes from that kind of vulnerability. Scott Dunn (23:11) Yeah, which is not easy to do not easy to do But I've been in meetings where I like I know it like I don't play this year But I like things so in some ways people look at influence about how we phrase things or how we present but you're just saying like look happy build a real relationship Have some humility if you're willing to say we're wrong. So people know you'll also that when you're wrong or made of your core element of strength or something like that. think that's a real nice, everyone, if you think about that, that's not out of any of us to say, you know what, I'm going to try to be more honest and authentic and have some empathy and try to listen. Casey (23:45) Absolutely. It also helps to be able to connect the dots across different people and what they need and the strategy of whatever project you're working on so that you can connect the change to something that is it like what's in it for me, right? So what's in it for the people that you're talking to and being able to connect those things. So it's not just relationships and empathy, right? That's the soft stuff. It's that ability to really critically think about what it is you're driving change for. Scott Dunn (24:08) Mm-hmm. Casey (24:12) and connecting it to how each of these different stakeholders can benefit. Scott Dunn (24:18) Yeah, the part about connecting the dots and this is one thing if I'm ever in a meeting and I feel like I'm not getting it I actually will pause into my head. I'm thinking What is this person's concerns? And if I can't if I can't clear that I'd probably need to ask more questions but for any of us in those meetings just kind of go around through those stakeholders the people sitting around the desk or on the zoom and quick like in a sentence or two what what would be important to them? What are they? What's the win or what's the pain? But if you don't feel like you can articulate, then the good thing is you have to see that asking questions around that is never a problem because they're actually share because you're basically asking them about yourself. Tell me what's important to you. And they would like to share that. And it doesn't hurt to double check that. So I love what you're saying about connected dots. It won't be necessary that they're saying what you're listening and watching. I also watch what they react to. So something might jump out that would be outside of their say their role. but it's about people and there's an aspect that they really do care about how their people feel, not just the, this process is important in terms of our strategy and the technology we're using, but it might come out like, well, all their people would be really excited to put their hands on that new technology too. But they're not gonna say that because that sounds like that's a weak reason to be for a project, but you know it's important to them because they lead those people or that person. So I like what you're saying, connect the dots, think about those perspectives, because the empathy is gonna help them to connect in the dots, right? more is emotional than the logic of that stuff. So think that's great. Really, really great. On this, I believe you're remote, correct? Partially? Okay. ⁓ fully. Okay. Let's talk about that small. It hasn't come up in the last five years, but let's talk remote. So from your experience, it's always a big topic to me. I do care about this. I think we deal with a lot, every company, because some people at least that are remote, or certainly partial remote, Casey (25:45) I am. Fully. Scott Dunn (26:05) What's your thoughts on what to be worried about and what to make that successful? you're seeing more and more almost like these two sides of the aisle, maybe some aspect of demanding people come back. And yet you have a whole generation who can't buy a house. So I'm figuring out where's the balance of remote work. So yeah, your thoughts on remote work, how to make it successful scene. Casey (26:27) Yeah, I mean, I have two different ways I could approach this, right? I have the personal thing that what works for me part, right? But as somebody who is often having these conversations with people who are in various buckets of people who are, know, partially remote, fully remote, fully in the office, that kind of a thing, I find that what I think is less relevant every single day. I for sure feel I have a lot of privilege. Scott Dunn (26:33) Mm-hmm. Casey (26:50) being fully remote. Like that's really cool because it's good for me. I'm at a spot in my career where it makes sense. I'm good at building relationships in lots of different kinds of ways, including through, you know, zoom meetings and that type of thing. But I don't think that there's a right answer. I think that the each company and each team and each group of people need to find what works best for them. and make that happen. I see real benefit to being together, especially when you're early in your career or when you're doing something that you need a whiteboard. I mean, I'm pretty good at Mural. I'm pretty good at using the whiteboard in the Zoom meeting, but there's no replacement for standing at a whiteboard with a bunch of stickies and flowing out process. So I just don't... Scott Dunn (27:33) That's so true. You're so right. Casey (27:40) I don't know that there's a right answer. And I think that different size companies have different complexity of making that decision. And it sort of goes back to that comment we were making before. Like, if it isn't a good fit for you, find something that is. You know, I don't know. That's my thought. That's my thought. Scott Dunn (28:00) Yeah, true. Makes sense. For the folks that are managing or leading these remote work, are things that they do to make that go better in their context. Casey (28:12) Absolutely. are ways to, especially if you have hybrid, it even gets more complex, right? All virtual is the easiest way of virtual, right? Because then everybody's always virtual and you're always on Zoom and you're always on Slack and whatever. That's for sure the easiest way to manage teams that are virtual. When you have that hybrid space, you've got that opportunity to be in a conference room or in a huddle group or in the cafeteria. and on Zoom meetings, and it gets kind of funky, right? Because sometimes you can't hear, or you have those water cooler conversations. The key really is to have what I found is a good working agreement, right? Like, what types of communication are we going to have? How are we going to do that? What happens when we had a really great conversation in the break room? How do we communicate that to the rest of the team who wasn't there? And really just sort of build team trust through a good quality executed working agreement. And sometimes that takes a little bit more effort from the leader or even from every individual, right? But that's part of that culture, right? Scott Dunn (29:16) Right. I think the folks you make me think that's personally in a meeting and it's good that I try to get the groups together in these different locations as they're talking. I can't tell. I talking. I don't know these. I don't know them all that well. So I can't I can't tell by voice yet. If these are different groups are working with each other. The thing is, look, that person's kind of off camera or either they're on camera. They're so far back. Is that is their mouth moving? Is there a delay? I can't tell. So that sets the connection. I'm surprised for me as a more of a relator, how much it becomes a problem like nothing beats in person. So at least get that regularly. get in person. There was another client that saying that very same thing. Like they love it when we all get back together. And so they kind of have their cadence of pulling the whole group better. Could be like you're off site, could be all hands could be, but I think those opportunities to keep connection. I do like remote. I do think you have a good point about depending on the maturity of the career. Some people just know like I know I got to take care of these biopsy that they've noticed other XYZ. So they do too. So if they're new in their career, they may not even catch that I should be probably working. what is this at home on the zoom and in their PJs or something like that. I think it's a good point. Look at those and also the work. The fact that you would take that to the team and say, what do you all think is very empowering. You have an open conversation around what they all think and definitely there's a assumptions that people are making about what it should be, et cetera, but they those explicit and they kind of carry that around with them a little. Right. So that's a yeah, really nice nugget on that. That's everyone for sure. So last thing I'm to add a little bit on the back on leading change. So in this case, it could be remote, could be these other projects that we'll try to adapt. I think you'd say this earlier about there's no company that's not going through this crazy time of change right now. When it comes to change, have you seen something that's helpful, especially if it's a more significant change, you gave some good fundamentals around influence and trust and relationship, empathy, et cetera. Are there other aspects on how that change is rolled out or a process change or the groups that are leading the change that you've seen be like more systemically just successful aside that people might change, but the way we handle change is done this way. That you think there's a tip or two out there that would help out. They're trying to kick off, you know, a new way of working. We're trying to refresh remote policies or how they work, Because a lot of people in the middle of change. Have you seen overarching themes about how this lead that you found have been more successful? Casey (31:57) Yeah, think, gosh, it's the hardest thing, right? Like figuring out a way to roll out change across teams is the most challenging thing that I've ever done. And I've been doing it for a long time. And I'm always learning new ways and new ways not to do things and all that jazz, right? I have this little nugget that I got from a mentor. Scott Dunn (32:11) Hahaha, yeah. Casey (32:24) 20 years ago almost, and he's a motorcycle rider. And when you ride a motorcycle, the thing that you do to go on a corner is to turn your head, right? Turn your head to get to where you're going. And the non-motorcycle sort of connection to that is the what's my plan. And so really understanding what the plan is so that you can very clearly articulate what it is you're doing at each phase of the change. If you're prepping people for change, what's the plan? If you're starting to design a project, what's the plan? And just get really clear with where you're going, what the expectations are, what each individual person's role is, and be explicit about it because we're all dealing with a lot of things coming at us all the time. And if you're leading with kindness and you're saying, okay, your part of this is to simply accept the change. That's not condescending, that's empowering. That tells that person that like, this decision has been made, I gotta get myself there, and this person's here to help me get there. And so just being really clear about it, that's the biggest thing for me that I've seen that is successful. It's hard to do though, because that's a lot of people and a lot of Scott Dunn (33:36) Yeah. Well, yes, that's why it makes it so surprising. Number of times a company has to bring in outside help to get the change because it's not a capability or muscle they really have about how to change ourselves. Right. We execute against what we build or do here really well for help. But but that idea of getting outside the box and thinking different how we can improve, like you said, poke holes and so that's why I like it that there's someone When a company sees someone with your skill set and the way that you're wired and leverages it to say like, we kind of informally have this person like really helping things about because it's commonly not a muscle that they really have. Sometimes they have the awareness they don't, but sometimes they don't the long, really large change initiatives that take a long time and either never really get off the ground or never really where they should have gone or before they kind of just either die on the vine or we just call it, you know, just call it good. They don't draw in. It gets a group above everyone trying to lay change on top of folks instead of incorporate everyone into change and then go through it together. Learning together with someone like you that can connect the dots, connect with people, can bring that about. And think in a way it's really powerful and effective. Yeah, I was going to tease you. don't know if you have anything on that. But you mentioned books, you mentioned podcasts. Do have any favorites that you just would throw out? Classic go to book, current read, current podcast. Casey (35:01) My favorite all time book is a book called Wolf Pack by Abby Wambach. She's a soccer player, she's fantastic, and it's a book about leadership. It's like 70 pages long. It has a set of like four rules. And yeah, it's written from a like, you know, girl power, woman empowerment, leadership empowerment kind of thing, but it's universally adaptable to life, to it doesn't matter what your gender might be. what your job might be, Wolfpack. I can't recommend it enough. And then most recently, I read the let them theory and it's life changing. It's not a new topic, right? It's not a new concept. Of course you should control the things that you should stress about the things that you can control and let the things you can't control go, right? There's lots of different places that that comes up, but Mel Robbins just did a great job, like putting it into stories that you could like directly apply it to your life, or at least for me anyway. And I find myself quoting that book to myself pretty regularly. Yeah. Scott Dunn (36:03) That's a good sign. That's a really good sign. I find myself too. That's I literally will go through something. I start to realize like you've mentioned this book or this thing like three times now in the last few weeks. Like, OK, that's obviously significant. You didn't miss a time. you make another really good point. I really say like at the meta level in some ways, when it impacts you personally and you connect to it personally, it's going to be helpful and relevant in the work you do because you're going to be sharing the expression of who you are. And I say that because some people will go like, here's this top leadership book this year. I'm to read this well-known. And sometimes I'll struggle to just like really pick the book. Even if it is good content, I don't connect to it. I'm not sharing with others. It's not part. It doesn't become a home and gets spread. So I love what you're saying. Casey (36:48) completely agree with that. read, I spent a lot of time last year reading a book called Mind Your Mindset. I don't know if you've read that one. But in theory, it's great. But it's so business focused that like I didn't personally relate to it. And so I had to go find some other book that was less business structured to, to like, bolster that topic. All the words were the same. It's just the storyline really, really changes it for me. So telling stories, right, is the most important thing of how we connect. to the world. Scott Dunn (37:20) Yes, yes, yes. And I believe in that. That's how we're just wired. brains are wired. Story really sticks. And you're making me think like, yeah, those books I recommend the most are more not have a lot of stories, even if it's less directly tied to the work I do. Maybe it's not even technology. It's not even maybe it's not even around business, but it's got stories they do and stick and connect. I love that. So I'll check that out. I have not read Will Peck. I think I've seen it, but now that I know it, pages I'm also enticed to on that. I can get through it. Casey (37:52) It's one hour of your time max. Scott Dunn (37:53) us. If I can't do that over breakfast, then what's going on? Awesome. I appreciate that. This has been great. I think there's a lot of nuggets for folks that are listening. I wouldn't be surprised, by the way, that this could get chopped up into part one, part two. I think we like them. But this is great because I think it's a great part one, part two, given how we kind of split the conversations. And I love the personal aspect on that as well. So thank Thank Casey for the time. It's been wonderful. think I really look forward to people's feedback on this and a lot of takeaways, a lot of that can be, they can try out some of these things very next week in terms of how they show up and who they are and what they're about. There's just a whole lot of good pieces of this that I think are readily possible for so many people. So I really, really appreciate that too as well. I'm on automatic sites. love them. The Builder Backs, they can do something right away with that. And you gave them a lot of Thank you for that. Thank you for your time. I know you have a lot on your plate. for us, but you appreciate it. Hope to see you soon. Thanks Casey. Casey (38:54) Yeah, thanks for having me. Thank you. Scott Dunn (38:57) Woo!

Kiera and Kristy discuss ways your practice can completely “drain the lemon” of juice (aka, financial opportunity) without becoming completely overwhelmed. This happens by identifying a goal and reverse engineering it. Kiera and Kristy give numerous examples of how this works, as well as other opportunities for hidden value in your practice. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is such a special day. I hope you guys are having the best day because I'm having a great day because today I'm podcasting with our one and only Kristy Treasure, one of our incredible consultants. And I am so excited to have Kristy with us. Kristy, how are you doing today?   Kristy (00:17) Gosh, it's fantastic. The first day is spring and we're gonna bring some new life to clients here. Add potential clients, right?   Kiera Dent (00:24) I agree. I completely   agree with you, Kristy And honestly, if you guys have not met Kristy, Kristy is incredible. She's been on our team. Kristy, feel is just like the queen of wanting to have these amazing practices, just hit great numbers. Kristy loves numbers. She loves to dig in. And Kristy has this like very delicate leadership style. Like I watch you and I see you just transform practices. You gain their trust, you build their trust, you help team members.   I mean, offices who've said, Kiera I only want to work with you, are working with Kristy and loving her. And so it's just really fun, Kristy, to have someone who just is so passionate about dentistry. And I'm just so happy to have you on the podcast with me today. So that's a little intro to Kristy. If you haven't met her, haven't heard from her, you definitely need to. So Kristy, love having you on our team. It's always a treasure.   Kristy (01:11) Thank you. I love being here. It's a great culture and you know what? We just have fun serving clients and that's what it's about.   Kiera Dent (01:19) We totally do. And so Kristy, I want to join the podcast today because I feel I've been watching you consult some clients and I've been seeing it's fun in our morning huddle. Don't worry guys, in Dental Team we have a morning huddle. You can tell I used to be a dental assistant, team member, that's what I do. And so Kristy, we always share client wins and it's really fun because then we can share from consultants like, hey, what are you doing really well? What things are we doing well?   And Kristy, I've been watching, she's been posting up some really fun changes that she's been able to do with practices, so much so that offices who have never been able to hit certain dollar amounts in their production, things that they never believed were possible, getting overheads like, Kristy is burning and churning and doing it, it's like, Kristy, you come in with this like delicate wave of authority and it's just beautiful. And so I kind of wanted to talk, not necessarily specific to these practices.   But I mean, offices who have never had 100 grand, Kristy's been able to help them. Offices who have never been profitable, she's been able to help them. Offices who feel like they can't get their leadership team on board, Kristy's getting them. People who say like, we'll never be able to make an operations manual. I'm watching and Kristy you're just like getting these offices to navigate along. And so I thought today would be really fun for us to talk about maybe what are some of the tips or tricks. Again, not necessarily specific to these practices, but things you see overarching that really work to add.   production to a practice or get a team bought into it. So let's start first. mean, everybody always wants to geek out on numbers. So Kristy, what are some of the things that you've found are just really successful? I mean, you're an office manager of a very, very, very successful practice. You've consulted lots and lots and lots of practices even before coming to Dental A Team. You've got some history with you. So Kristy, let's kind of share some Kristy magic of what are some of the things you've seen that really help impact numbers in a practice quickly and easily with a whole team bought into that.   Kristy (03:06) Yeah, would say first off and foremost, like obviously picking maybe the top five metrics to start working on and every doctor in office talks about production and collection. And so starting with some of the basics that they already understand, but also like.   Figuring out that point, what are we working for? Not just in a five year or 10 year range. I mean, you talk about that all the time, but also what are we looking for this year? And then reverse engineering it. Because if we don't have a point to guide to,   It's just numbers and even when we're talking percentages, we can have 100 % of collections, but is it enough to pay the bills? Is it enough to do the goals that we're reaching for as a team? So definitely it's about starting where they're at and then letting them see something bigger, if you will.   Kiera Dent (04:07) And Kristy,   I think it's such a good thing because like when teams just feel like they're only about today, right? Like it's like, here's my daily bread today, but we don't understand the bigger picture. This is oftentimes when offices get fresher and they're like, my team isn't even looking down the line. They're not taking the ownership. They're not doing any of these things. So Kristy, how do you get a team to look further down the line and not feel the overwhelm, not feel like, cause you know, you come in and start to change. How do you have some tips to navigate with team members who maybe aren't as pro?   Getting into it.   Kristy (04:38) Yeah, I would say number one, I mean, we're starting out the year, we're ending first quarter. And so to think, ⁓ I want to hit a million dollars by the end of the year. That's such a big overwhelming number that we literally break it down. We can project out where are they currently, you know,   Where are their numbers currently projected to hit at the end of the year? And then reverse engineer that. Guys, my gosh, we're only $1,000 short a week. How could we go find $1,000?   right? And do what we do. It's all in the name of getting our patients healthy. you know, let breaking it down to that simple step and letting them achieve something daily, if not weekly, and showing them it's easy. And it all relates back to our why. Why did we get into dentistry? You know, it's to serve and get our patients healthy. So when we do that, and we know where we're headed, it's really easy to achieve.   and then just start building in the goals from there.   Kiera Dent (05:46) Mm-hmm, I agree   with you because I think in dentistry is so fun I mean a million seems so hard, but let's break it down like if we really want to do I mean Let's just do some fun math here. So we're gonna do a million. All right, so some offices. They're like, I've never hit a million Let's figure out a million. I think these are fun. Kristi and I do love numbers So I hope you do and if you don't I hope you take on our mantra of like I love numbers and numbers Love me. I want the numbers to love me. So let's enjoy that. So if we have a million we divide it by 12, okay   And this is just really rough math. There's more sophisticated ways to project this. That's 83,000 per month. Let's bump it up to 84 because it's 83,333. So let's just do 84,000. So if we're at 84,000 and then we know, let's say you're a practice that is only working four days a week, that's fine. You do not need to work five days. You don't need to work six days. Let's just do a four day work week. Cause I like to prove to people and Kristy, I know you do too. We don't have to work harder. Let's just work a little smarter.   So with that, let's say it's 16 days a month. Does that make sense? You got four days a week. Most months are four weeks. I get that there's a few more, which is why this is very loose. Don't worry if you do this, you'll slush in the right direction. So what that brings it down to is 52.50 per day. Now let's say in this practice that they have two hygienists. Usually a hygienist is producing about a thousand-ish rough numbers. That's 32.50 per day for an office. And so I think Kristy agreed with you.   When we look at that and we're like, all right, if we're only scheduled to 2,700 today, where can we go find that extra $600 or $500? And it's not saying we're over diagnosing patients. What we're doing is we're looking to see, could we add in some fluoride? Could we add in that FMX? How can we do better patient care? Oh my gosh, that patient only wanted to do one filling, but they're about to get numb. And that quad of filling seems a lot more enticing because they're about to get numb. It's crazy how like, you know, when I talk to patients and they say, oh,   I think I just want to this one filling. And then when they're about to get numb, it's like, Hey, we can actually do the whole quad. And they're like, yeah, we should actually do that. It's wild. That injection, you guys never, ever, ever, ever underestimate the power of an injection. ⁓ but the reality is this is how you can look for it. This is how it becomes fun. And I think helping teams and Kristy, do an amazing job with this, helping teams have fun with this. That's the whole point of a morning huddle. We go to morning huddle to huddle. How do we win the game? Just like a huddle in basketball or huddle in football.   How do we actually win the game? Where are we at? What's that extra five? I mean, I have been shocked when offices will implement pro, ⁓ fluoride, or they'll look for FMXs. We're like doing our x-rays on normal cadences, or we're even doing our comp exams. That will add up so fast for you. Adding a sealant, adding in quad dentistry rather than single tooth dentistry. You can find these things so easily. And so, Kristy, I think you do a beautiful job of that with your practices. And I'm just curious, like,   But what happens when you have that one team member in the back who's just like not having it? What do we do with them and how do you get those team members on board?   Kristy (08:46) Yeah, number one, most team members want something more for themselves, right? Whether it's a yearly raise or I don't know, maybe the office doesn't offer insurance and they want to offer insurance. And I'm like, well, let's find a way to offer it. You know, let's figure out how much it is. What does it cost? What do we have to do to show the doctor we can earn our way to doing it? So showing them that they can also achieve what they want. mean, honestly, today I had a   a team that was talking about taking time off between Christmas and New Year and possibly paying the team for that time off and surprising them. And I'm like, well, let's reverse engineer it, find out what do we have to do to pay for that. And then we can surprise that gift ahead of time because we can measure if we're on target for it. And...   give them that, gift them that time off if you will, but just again showing team what's in it for them and relating it again back to their why they got into dentistry which was to take great care of people.   And when you do it, we all reap the rewards. And I love that you said morning huddle because nine times out of 10, we have that treatment in our schedules already. And it's just having conversations with patients in a relationship fashion.   Many people think you have to have more new patients, right? We don't need more new patients. They're in our schedule and we have the opportunity to just do more on the patients we have. And if you don't believe me, have them run their unscheduled treatment report.   Kiera Dent (10:31) Amen to you, Kristy. And I agree with you tenfold. And that's why we consult so well together. And I really love that you said like, let's show them, let's gift them, let's figure out what our team wants. And that's what's actually so fun. Like this is why I love numbers. I hated numbers because I didn't understand them. But when you realize that numbers can just be the way to get whatever you want in life. Like it's just truly this really, really fun, dreamy, like you said, if they want to take time off between Christmas and New Year's,   Fantastic, let's figure out what that production would be. Let's figure out the cost of paying all the team members. It's very simple, it's not a hard equation to do. Then let's add that amount, divide it amongst the rest of the months of the year. You can literally pay for it. So offices who wanna go on trips, offices who wanna add in bonuses, offices who wanna pay for scrubs, like you name it, all these things can be paid for. And for people listening, this isn't too overdiagnosed on the patients. It's not like we're going hunting because we're like, we wanna go on that trip.   it's we are looking for the best patient care like Kristy said. We are looking for the little opportunities that we're not doing. And every practice is like, no, we're doing all this already. Yeah, right. I promise you, I've yet to see one office who has done every single thing perfectly 110%. And so I think like, let's drop that ego as well and look to see where it can be. And Kristy, I love that you bring it. As you were talking, I'm like, Kristy to me feels like the analogy of like squeezing the juice out of the lemon or squeezing the tube of toothpaste.   And Kristy is the gal who looks at your practice and you're like, my tube of toothpaste is empty. And she's like, yeah, let me show you. got like three more months where the toothpaste in this tube, like we are squeezing it rather than just going and looking to buy a brand new tube of toothpaste. And within your practice, there's so much more opportunity to like squeeze the juice, squeeze the opportunities rather than having to look outside. Yes, we still need to work on the outside pieces too, but then when we look inside, and I think that this is where you do such a great job, Kristy like.   Kristy (12:04) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (12:25) I tell you, Kristy can turn to practice so quickly. It's been magic to watch you, Kristy I'm like, this girl comes in and she just like hangs out. She's working with the team. She's tracking the numbers and la la la la la. The doctor's like, oh my gosh, we hit this and I didn't even know that was possible. But Kristy's squeezing juice. You're looking for the juice constantly. And so I'm just curious, other squeeze the juice, squeeze the tube of toothpaste? You said like new patients, you're looking for unscheduled treatment plans.   Kristy (12:30) you   Kiera Dent (12:53) We don't need the new patients. We're looking for just little, what are some of those other opportunities, Kristy, that like I spy with my little consultant eye, what do you see in there?   Kristy (13:02) Yeah.   Obviously there's a few areas, but one of the things too when we have limited coming in how many of those do we work to convert? I mean how many times do we schedule them for a half hour appointment when really if we just schedule them for an hour and trained up our assistants to have a conversation on the front end my gosh, if we could avoid future emergencies like this while you're here We could take a look at everything come up with a plan and still treat that tooth that's bothering you right so and if they're swollen   or in pain, at least scheduling them back to make sure, hey, you know, we could avoid future emergencies like this. Let's get you back and take a look at everything, but get you out of pain today. that's one area. And again, it's just taking and using what's already there and doing what's best for the patient, right? I mean, people only lose their teeth for a few reasons. Trauma.   Kiera Dent (13:53) Mm-hmm.   Kristy (13:59) Extensive decay, you know, so if we can avoid that just like you said the power of the shot if we could avoid Future damage and more cost wouldn't you agree we should take care of it today?   Kiera Dent (14:06) Hahaha!   Mm-hmm.   Also, did   you hear what Kristy said? Wouldn't you agree? And that's a very like amazing line to take into your practice if you're not using that right now. I love the LOEs being converted into a comp exam. It is one of the most incredible things that if a practice will take this on. And so we were like, but Kiera, Kristy, they're just coming in for pain. Like they're not gonna like it. Yeah, right. A, you have to remember no one wants to come to see you. And I'm sorry, dentist, but this is the reality. And there's like 1 % of the population who's a little bit odd and they actually love to come.   But that's like truth. And so they don't wanna come anyway. They're already in pain. So let's do them a service. Let's do them a favor. Let's take pictures of their entire mouth, AKA x-rays. Let's do a full comp exam. Yes, we're gonna take care of that problem tooth. Absolutely, 100 % we're gonna do that. But odds are, and every doctor and every team member knows this, if I've got one tooth that's looking pretty wild, odds are there's probably a few other places in that mouth that are going to have the same problem come upon them pretty soon. But I think it's also,   training the front office to say this, training the clinical team on how we present this and how we can do this, but also realizing this is a huge service and benefit to a patient. No patient wants to come back. They really do not. As much as they love you and as fun as you are and as great as your coffee bar is and as fun as your movies are, being at the dentist, even for me, I had to go to the dentist and I was like, gosh, really? Like this place. And I work with dentists. Like I've been a dental assistant. People just don't enjoy having their   someone awkwardly put their hands in your mouth. It's weird. It's a weird thing that we do and yet we love it. So Kristy, I love that. What are some other ideas that you have around? Because yes, convert the limited to comps. Any other things that you have around? And again, I don't want you to give all away your Kristy Sparkle. So like what's one or two more that you have of like being able to squeeze that juice, squeeze that tube of toothpaste?   Kristy (15:59) Well, I would say many times, especially for the dentist coming in or newly starting out having firm financial arrangements, know, and it's not firm doesn't mean strict necessarily, but it's it's comprehensive finances. You know, it's it's finding a plan to get all their treatment done. Even if you're phasing it out over time, but I would say really there's usually that low hanging fruit in AR or insurance that we can   just put in simple systems that go after that and stop it bleeding into, you know, aging out, if you will. So many times that's an area to start and just look at what our processes are. How are we collecting? Are we getting the good estimates to get the correct amount collected over the counter?   Kiera Dent (16:52) Okay, so   in that, agree with you, Kristy, because a lot of times people are like, we need to make more. And I'm like, you don't even need to make more. It's just hanging out in your AR. Like you've already done the work. We just need to collect the money for it. So you mentioned making sure that when we do this, we have good treatment plan estimates, which comes from good insurance verification, which comes from good entering of that. That's gonna help a lot. What are some of the other financial policies that you've found that tend to work really, really well for practices?   Kristy (17:17) Yeah, well, let me be clear that treatment plans are different than financial arrangements. Treatment plans are what we're going to do. Financial arrangements are how are we going to take care of it? And many times people are missing the how we're going to take care of it. They're like, yeah, they know the cost. We gave them the printout. But are we really solidifying how we're going to take care of it? You know, are you the type of patient that needs   to pay over time? Are we capturing exactly what they're doing, if you will?   Kiera Dent (17:50) Yeah, which is really smart because otherwise   it's a lingering, it's are we paying with cash? Are we paying with credit card? Are we paying with financing options? What are we doing with that? That's going to firm this up and I agree as soon as that gets dialed in and people panic. Like I don't wanna put this out there. And I'm like, where do we feel like we went back to the 1800s to where it's like, just put it on my tab. Like I still do not understand why dental practices get so nervous to ask patients to pay for something that they just received.   99 % of the time in today's world, we're having to prepay for these treatments before services are done. And I feel like dentistry, let's, let's come to the playing field. Let's get a little more current. Let's get a little bit more on the same page of the rest of the world. It's not weird. It's weird. The fact that we think it's weird. That's what's weird. Like it's okay to ask patients to pay for it. It's okay to expect them to have financials before they come in for treatment. That's normal. And then what we do is for all the patients that we've been like,   lollygagging on in the past, it's okay, it's all right, there's no judgment here. Those patients we start to collect when they come in. So we start to collect on that side, we can send statements to them, we can run our AR and we get better for future and we have them sign on those financial arrangements so that way there's no confusion. The only reason patients get frustrated with you is because expectations were missed. So I love what Kristy said with these financial arrangements. It's a beautiful way to not have expectations being missed and a really good way to squeeze some juice in your practice.   to find those little missing opportunities. Kristy, you've been a freaking dream. Are there any other little like secret nuggets that you feel like you wanna leave with our audience before we say goodbye today? Because honestly, I just have loved this and I enjoy the imagery. I'm gonna like have you, every time I see you now, I'm gonna think of you like squeezing the juice. Like I'll just think of you like, Kristy's over there taking lemons into lemonade. So any other last thoughts you have as we wrap up today?   Kristy (19:32) Yeah.   Yeah, actually you mentioned the financial arrangements and I just want to challenge people. literally, I almost love the practices where they say, see you later, send me a statement and flipping them to actually getting down payments or reservation fees for appointments. Like I've watched a practice go from literally that.   Kiera Dent (19:54) Yeah.   Kristy (20:04) to, my gosh, they're so excited because they are using Pre-Collect. But I also want to flip people's thinking. Just like you said earlier about patients not wanting to stay, don't put our own bias in it. Because I hear people say, well, we'll do a reservation for large appointments. I just want to challenge you that   allow that same opportunity even for the smaller payments. If I had $500 in my savings and you offered me to pay $250 today to reserve it and $250 when I come in, I very well may appreciate having that so it doesn't drain my savings or my checking or wherever I'm pulling that money from versus, hey, you could pay $50 today and now I have $450 to pay when I come back in. So I just challenge you to, you know, try.   gamify it a little bit and have fun with it and I promise your patients will appreciate it.   Kiera Dent (21:02) Kristy, I love that you said gamify it. I think I heard once at a conference I attended and they said, business is just a game. Like it's truly a game. And when you look at it, it takes the stress out of it. think running a successful practice can be a game, not our dentistry being a game for the patients, but a game of how we think about things. I mean, I look at like chess or my brother used to play strategic or.   There was another game like Clue. loved playing Clue. That was like my favorite game. mean, I was the Clue master. I won that game all the time. I would love somebody to like challenge me on it. But the reason those games are fun is because we challenge our thinking. We think outside the box. We make it fun. And so I love, Kristy, these ideas you brought to the table today are how can we think outside the box? How can we make it fun? And I agree with you, Kristy. It's crazy how when you just change your thinking,   Just a smidge, we're not asking you to like completely and obliterate who you've been all this time, but just a smidge, you will see magic happen in your practice. You will see more patients saying yes to you. You'll see more patients scheduling. You'll see your AR being chipped down. Doctors, you'll see more money coming into your bank account. So many wonderful things this way just to change it. And I love that you said like offer it to even the smaller ones. Why not? Cause you're right. That is a benefit to these other patients. They might say no, but they also might say yes. And then collections become so much easier. So Kristy.   It was so fun to have you on the podcast. I love you on our team. I love practices who get to work with you. I always feel like practices who get to Kristy truly get just such a treat to work with you because you really do find these little simple ways to help them hit goals and possibilities that they honestly never believed was possible. So thanks for being on the podcast with me today and being on our team. Of course, and for all of you listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.   Kristy (22:42) Thank you.  

The Kentucky Derby winner is Sovereignty. He beat put the favorite Journalism to win the 151st addiction of the race. Congrats to the Denver Nuggets on kicking the Clippers out of the NBA Playoffs. The Clippers ARE A JOKE! They will NEVER WIN ANYTHING WITH HARDEN AND SIMMONS....HAHAHA

Hahaha oh yeah 

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Originally Aired April 23, 2025: It might as well be a bullseye. The creepiest set of twins on planet earth. Everything you wanna know about behaviors that should be labeled as a mental illness. Listen & subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Amazon Music. For more, visit https://www.93x.com/half-assed-morning-show/Follow the Half-Assed Morning Show:Twitter/X: @93XHAMSFacebook: @93XHAMSInstagram: @93XHAMSEmail the show: HAMS93X@gmail.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Codey talks to Al about Bug and Seek Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:00: What Have We Been Up To 00:06:21: Game News 00:27:44: Bug And Seek 01:05:05: Outro Links Len’s Island 1.0 Release To Pixelia Release Of Life and Land 1.0 Release Palia on PS5 and Xbox Palia Elderwood Expansion Everafter Falls 2.0 Update Lou’s Lagoon Kickstarter Autonomica Kickstarter Contact Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello, farmers, and welcome to another episode of The Harvest Season. My name is Al, (0:00:36) Codey: my name is Cody that’s a new thing I’m just gonna keep doing that forever now (0:00:38) Al: and we’re here today to talk about Cottagecore games. (0:00:49) Al: I’m gonna start not referencing it, and then maybe it’ll stop. I don’t know, we’ll see. (0:00:52) Codey: no it’s on my mind every time ah and it matches I have a new tattoo that has (0:00:55) Al: You’re like a dog with a bone. (0:01:00) Al: Yes. (0:01:02) Codey: six wolves. So it’s classic. Yep. (0:01:06) Codey: Bug game, bug game. Mm hmm. Yep. (0:01:07) Al: All right, Coneys here, because we’re going to talk about Bug and Seek. (0:01:13) Al: The first of multiple bug games, undecided as to how many. We have two currently scheduled. (0:01:20) Codey: Well, and then we decided that a third, a third one that is scheduled tentatively is bug adjacent. (0:01:21) Al: We’ll see. (0:01:30) Codey: So two. Yeah, stay tuned. (0:01:32) Al: Yeah, sure. Maybe. We’ll see. We’re going to talk about Bug and Seek. Oh, well, I say (0:01:36) Codey: Yeah. Yeah, you didn’t. Yeah, you didn’t play it. (0:01:42) Al: we. Cody’s going to talk about Bug and Seek. I’ve not played the game. Although for a rare (0:01:48) Codey: Wow. (0:01:49) Al: occasion, I also don’t own it. So yay me. I managed to not buy a game. So before that, (0:01:58) Al: We’ve got a bunch of news. (0:01:59) Al: It’s been a busy week, lots of news. (0:02:02) Al: But first of all, Cody, what have you been up to? (0:02:04) Codey: I have been playing bug and seek clearly, um, but I know, um, but I also am still playing (0:02:13) Codey: Fortnite. So my new roommate, um, asked if I had Fortnite on my Xbox and I was like, (0:02:19) Codey: Nope, we can get it. And then we just play it pretty regularly. Now I play probably like (0:02:24) Codey: four or five games a day, but it’s, it’s like fast because it loads in fast. And then I just (0:02:29) Codey: die a couple of times and then I’m like, okay, I’m done. So it’s probably only like 40 minutes of (0:02:30) Al: It’s fast because you’re bad at it, that’s what you just said. (0:02:32) Codey: of Fortnite a day. (0:02:35) Codey: Uh, sometimes sometimes I get up to like, I’ve only gotten one Vic Roy, which for the kids is a victory royal, um, where you win, but I am frequently in the top 10. (0:02:53) Codey: So, I think I just get really nervous when I’m in the top 10, so I’m playing that. Uh, and then I also had a big meeting with my advisors where I basically met with them and was like, hey. (0:03:04) Codey: Here’s what I have so far. Here’s what I still have to do. May I please graduate in the fall? And they said, yes. So I am on track to graduate. (0:03:16) Codey: So I’m also working on a lot of specimens and going to be hiring a tech here soon. Very exciting. (0:03:22) Al: Cool. (0:03:23) Codey: What about you? What have you been up to? (0:03:26) Al: What have I been up to? (0:03:27) Al: I have been playing around with my new recording app on my desktop. (0:03:32) Al: No, that’s what I was doing right now when I was definitely listening to you. (0:03:34) Codey: Oh wow. (0:03:37) Al: I have been playing Tiny Garden. (0:03:41) Codey: Okay. (0:03:42) Codey: This is the Polly pocket game. (0:03:42) Al: This is this is the Polly Pocket farming game. (0:03:45) Codey: Okay. (0:03:45) Al: Yeah, so I have been I have been playing that. (0:03:49) Al: And maybe I’ll talk about that in the future. (0:03:52) Al: This is a game. (0:03:55) Al: I always find the balance hard because it’s like, do I do I talk about the game (0:04:00) Al: just now or do I wait until because obviously I’m doing an episode on this. (0:04:03) Al: Right. I’ve played a game. (0:04:04) Codey: Right. Right. Yeah. (0:04:04) Al: I’m doing an episode on it. It’s free content. (0:04:08) Al: So, yeah, I don’t I I think it’s interesting. (0:04:10) Codey: No, it’s a game. (0:04:12) Codey: Okay. (0:04:13) Al: I will have things to say about it. (0:04:14) Codey: Oh. (0:04:15) Al: That is probably a good way to put it. (0:04:17) Al: I will have things to say about it. (0:04:21) Al: I’ve also kind of been. (0:04:22) Al: playing more cassette beasts but I’m still struggling to get into it so I (0:04:29) Al: don’t know I’ve kind of taken a break and gone to Tiny Garden and maybe I’ll (0:04:33) Al: maybe I’ll go back maybe I won’t I don’t know there’s just there’s something I (0:04:37) Al: don’t I really struggle with the like the UX of it I struggle to care about it (0:04:40) Codey: Mm-hmm (0:04:44) Codey: Yep (0:04:44) Al: and I struggle to yeah it’s just that it’s really not grabbing me it’s really (0:04:49) Codey: Yeah, I (0:04:50) Codey: Mean, I’m right there with you when I tried to play it on Xbox for a bit (0:04:54) Codey: I may be played for like an hour and I was just like yeah, I don’t I don’t have to do this (0:05:00) Codey: And it just doesn’t it doesn’t do it for me. So I put it down and then (0:05:08) Codey: Um, I don’t think I’m in a big bag. (0:05:10) Codey: Um, unfortunately, though I do, I do have an update. (0:05:12) Al: Yeah, yeah (0:05:15) Codey: Uh, I don’t know if you’re done yet. (0:05:17) Al: Yeah, yeah (0:05:18) Codey: Okay. (0:05:18) Codey: Uh, I have an update on, cause I always complained about Disney (0:05:22) Codey: Dreamlight Valley’s lag time and how it takes forever to load. (0:05:26) Codey: And, um, so my partner moved in recently and he has a Xbox series X. (0:05:33) Codey: So he has, I was playing on an Xbox one, which is ancient at this point. (0:05:38) Codey: Um, and that’s why it was lagging. (0:05:40) Codey: The update is it loads way faster on the Series X, um, and doesn’t have as, as many as much like issues it seems. (0:05:50) Codey: But I also, I played it, I logged on. (0:05:52) Codey: I was like, Oh wow, this is a lot faster. (0:05:54) Codey: And then I was like, and I’m bored. (0:05:55) Codey: So, um, but yeah, I mean, so if you update your stuff and you, um, are thinking about like wondering if that would be worth it, I think it is to take a, take a crack at that game. (0:06:10) Codey: If you haven’t played it for a while, I think my issue is I played it like a month ago, maybe. (0:06:13) Codey: So it’s still, there’s still not enough new to grab me. (0:06:19) Codey: So, yeah. (0:06:20) Al: Fair enough. All right well let’s talk about some news. First up we have Lens Island have (0:06:27) Al: finally announced their 1.0 is releasing on the 19th of June. (0:06:33) Codey: whoo, super excited about this. (0:06:37) Al: This game Cody has been in early access since November 2021. (0:06:38) Codey: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. (0:06:42) Codey: And I’ve had it and I played it and I really enjoyed it. (0:06:45) Codey: But I was like, you know what? (0:06:47) Codey: I’m going to wait to dedicate all of my time to this game for when it’s in 1.0. (0:06:51) Codey: So I am about ready to slam some more time into this game, (0:06:57) Codey: especially because it was it is something I can play on my Mac. (0:07:00) Codey: So, rest in pepperonis. (0:07:00) Al: That’s good. (0:07:03) Al: That’s good. (0:07:03) Codey: I am productivity. (0:07:06) Al: I also own it because I have a problem with Kickstarter. (0:07:12) Al: I haven’t played it because I’m sure I’ve told this story before, but I enjoy telling (0:07:16) Al: it. (0:07:16) Codey: OK. (0:07:17) Al: It didn’t have any controller support when I first launched it on my Steam deck and I (0:07:18) Codey: Yep. (0:07:20) Al: was like, hmm, no, I’m not going to do that. (0:07:24) Codey: I like the– (0:07:24) Al: There are some games I will play like a game that I’ll be talking about in the future. (0:07:30) Al: It does make it less fun to play and with a game like Lens Island, I feel like it would (0:07:37) Al: be just murder to try and play that game without controller support on a Steam deck. (0:07:41) Codey: Yeah, I could see that for sure (0:07:45) Al: I hope to play this when it comes out, when did I say June, 19th of June? (0:07:51) Codey: Yep (0:07:52) Al: That’s a bad time for it to come out because that is two weeks after the Switch 2 comes (0:07:55) Codey: Yeah, ooh won’t want (0:07:58) Al: out. (0:08:00) Al: The question is, will I be over Mario Kart World by then or not? (0:08:06) Codey: Mm hmm. (0:08:07) Al: We’ll see. (0:08:08) Al: It is before Donkey Kong Bonanza, so that’s good, but Bonanza, yeah, Bonanza. (0:08:13) Codey: Yeah, is it really been banana banana, but oh my gosh, okay, that’s cute. (0:08:19) Al: Have you not paid attention to any of that? (0:08:21) Codey: Um, you know, I did. (0:08:24) Codey: Uh, I just care so little that it just back vacated my brain matter pretty fast. (0:08:25) Al: Yeah, fair. (0:08:31) Codey: So I only just started playing my own switch again because of bugging. (0:08:36) Codey: And seek, but then also, um, now that my partner lives here, we want to try (0:08:41) Codey: and beat the Zelda games because we both have the issue of ADHD slash just (0:08:48) Codey: like disinterest after playing a game for a certain amount of time. (0:08:51) Al: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Interesting. Maybe, maybe. (0:08:51) Codey: But if it is an activity that we are doing together, perhaps we can make it through. (0:08:59) Codey: So we will see if that, if that is the success, that is the blueprint we’ll find out. (0:09:05) Al: That’s very interesting. Well, we look forward to hearing about that in the future. (0:09:10) Al: Next, we have 2Pixellia have announced that they’re releasing on the first of May. (0:09:14) Codey: Okay. That’s all I have for that. (0:09:17) Al: Alrighty. (0:09:19) Al: This is this is the the life sim, (0:09:24) Al: which like includes crime. (0:09:28) Codey: Yeah, it had a lot of, I remember the trailers and stuff like having so many, (0:09:32) Codey: it’s so detailed in the different things that you can do in the game, (0:09:34) Al: Yeah. (0:09:36) Codey: which is great. Love that for people who aren’t me. (0:09:39) Al: Yeah, that is my I think that’s my worry is that it ends up being too much. (0:09:44) Al: I did kickstart this one, so I will have this when it launches. (0:09:49) Al: As I say, I have an issue, but (0:09:51) Codey: But maybe maybe it’s not an issue. Maybe maybe we find out. Yeah (0:09:54) Al: I don’t know. We’ll see. (0:09:55) Al: We’ll see. We’ll see. (0:09:57) Al: Because I guess the thing about the thing about Stardew is that I like how it has (0:10:02) Al: options but I also like how it doesn’t have options. (0:10:04) Al: And that’s so contradictory, but you understand what I mean there, right? (0:10:10) Al: Like, yeah, you can focus on farming or you can focus on ranching or you can (0:10:13) Al: focus on mining or you can focus on… (0:10:16) Al: That’s it. (0:10:19) Al: Well, there’s other things like focusing on relationships and stuff like that. (0:10:22) Al: But realistically, if you don’t really know what to do, you farm. (0:10:25) Codey: I think that’s where my issue would be as well. (0:10:26) Al: Whereas here it’s like, what do you do if you don’t know what to do? (0:10:29) Al: And I don’t know. (0:10:30) Al: I worry I’m going to end up in decision. (0:10:34) Al: We’ll find out, not for Cody, Cody’s not even going to try it, big assumption there. (0:10:46) Codey: No, I will listen to the podcast episode though and be like, oh, that’s very interesting I (0:10:52) Al: May is busy, no, no, I meant big assumption that there’s going to be a podcast episode (0:10:52) Codey: Listen I listen to most episodes. Oh (0:10:57) Al: on it, no promises, I promise nothing. (0:10:58) Codey: Yeah, yeah for sure (0:11:02) Al: And Cody can’t promise this one. (0:11:04) Al: Because they are not playing the game. (0:11:06) Al: You don’t get to promise when you’re not playing. (0:11:06) Codey: - Nope, you’re right. (0:11:09) Al: Next, we have of life and land who have announced that their 1.0 is (0:11:13) Al: releasing on the 8th, 16th of May. (0:11:16) Codey: Okay, yep. This is the game that I want to play, but it’s Windows only, which makes (0:11:22) Al: Yes. Sad. (0:11:24) Codey: me sad. Though now that I have… do I want? No. Redacted. I do not want to put my desktop (0:11:34) Codey: in my office where I work all the time because then it will become a multi-use space and (0:11:39) Codey: I don’t want that. Nope. Still didn’t get the Steam Deck. (0:11:41) Al: Still not still not got the steam deck then. (0:11:46) Codey: And I don’t think I will because I’ve made it clear that I have other things I need to (0:11:50) Codey: pay off before I get a Steam Deck. I just didn’t know. I didn’t know at the time if my (0:11:59) Codey: partner was going to get a Steam Deck because he seemed like he was also interested in it. (0:12:02) Codey: But yeah. No Steam Deck yet. Yep. And he just sent me a photo of more wood. (0:12:04) Al: Instead he spent that money on wood. (0:12:10) Al: More wood! I look forward to finding out if that wood ever turns into a table or (0:12:15) Al: whether it just ends up living in a pile. (0:12:18) Codey: No, I think it’s going to be a table. He’s also thinking about because he just got some really (0:12:23) Codey: nice walnut and cherry, which is really pretty spendy wood. And he was talking about going and (0:12:29) Codey: buying pine from Home Depot and making a mock up of the table so that he could practice. (0:12:34) Al: Because yeah, because this this definitely doesn’t sound like a hyper focus that will be gone in two weeks (0:12:40) Al: Definitely not (0:12:41) Codey: Yeah, this is his special flavor of ADHD. (0:12:48) Codey: Um, well, it, yeah, I’m not gonna, no, you’re just, you are setting reasonable expectations (0:12:52) Al: Look, I’m not saying it’s going to go wrong. (0:12:53) Al: I’m not saying that. (0:12:54) Al: I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t. (0:13:00) Codey: and I appreciate it, but he’s, he’s spent a lot of money. So (0:13:04) Al: Palia have announced two things. (0:13:09) Al: They have announced that they’re releasing on the PS5 and the Xbox Series X and S, (0:13:16) Al: and they’re announcing that they’re at the same time, on the same day, the 13th of May, (0:13:22) Al: announcing an expansion called Elderwood. (0:13:26) Codey: And it looks awesome. I really like the colors of that the new expansion has. It’s very like (0:13:33) Codey: mystical, wood elf-y, like purple, purples and pinks. Very enjoyable. And just like the different (0:13:44) Codey: materials and like decor and stuff that are in that one looks good too. Seems like it’s a good (0:13:50) Codey: time to jump back in to Palia. And if I remember correctly, this is free to play, right? (0:13:55) Al: Yeah, it is. (0:13:56) Codey: Yeah. So maybe I will put it on because it is. It was fun. And Johnny and I had a whale of a time (0:13:59) Al: It’s a good looking game. (0:14:00) Al: It looks really nice. (0:14:06) Codey: shooting deer. So in hunting together, there’s also a pretty fun bug hunting mechanic. (0:14:14) Codey: So there’s a lot that can be done for sure. I’m trying to mentally decide. Yeah, I’m trying to (0:14:21) Codey: decide if I I guess it’s not a question of am I going to play this? It’s a question of am I going (0:14:26) Codey: continue playing it on my switch or do I just want to scrub and like make a whole new? (0:14:33) Codey: Oh, that’s another thing I could investigate. It could, it might. I’ll have to look at that. (0:14:39) Al: Yes. (0:14:40) Al: It looks like it does have cross-save. (0:14:42) Codey: But now I have to remember my password. That’s not likely. (0:14:47) Al: Just make sure. (0:14:48) Al: Yeah. (0:14:49) Al: Well, I mean, that’s a problem. (0:14:50) Codey: That is a me problem. Well, and it’s because I was using the same. (0:14:53) Al: You don’t have a password manager. (0:14:54) Codey: I do, but it’s like. (0:14:56) Codey: On other things, and I might not have done it on that. (0:15:02) Al: Okay, that’s definitely a you problem then. (0:15:03) Codey: I might not have. (0:15:05) Codey: Yeah, exactly. (0:15:07) Al: Oh dear. (0:15:08) Codey: Yep. (0:15:09) Codey: This is why I used to use the same password for everything so that I would (0:15:12) Codey: never forget, but then I was told that that’s a bad thing to do. (0:15:16) Codey: So I stopped doing that. (0:15:19) Al: I don’t know what to say. (0:15:23) Al: All right. (0:15:25) Al: Yes, that’s the 13th of me. (0:15:26) Codey: Mm hmm. (0:15:28) Al: Maybe you should play on your Xbox. (0:15:30) Codey: I think that’s what I’m thinking of is just, just restarting a whole new (0:15:33) Codey: thing on my Xbox, if it’s not fast, if it’s, if it’s, if it takes more than (0:15:38) Codey: five minutes to figure out my, my login, I’m probably just going to (0:15:42) Codey: create a whole new thing. (0:15:43) Codey: I wasn’t super far into it and it’s honestly been so far since I’ve (0:15:48) Codey: played it that I could, I could use a refresher. (0:15:50) Al: That is a fair point. Sometimes jumping into an existing save can be a problem. (0:15:56) Codey: Yes, when I don’t remember and I need all the tool tips again. (0:15:59) Al: Yes. Next, we have Ever After Falls have announced their 2.0 release. (0:16:04) Al: It is out now. It includes new items, new quests, new decorations, and a bunch of quality of life. (0:16:12) Codey: And I think the coolest new item is a fishbowl, and it specifically says small fishbowl that (0:16:19) Codey: displays a single fish. No matter the marital status of the fish. (0:16:22) Al: A single fish, no matter the size, obviously. (0:16:29) Al: Oh, I didn’t even think about that. Does it mean one individual fish, or does it mean… (0:16:35) Codey: A non-married fish. What if the fish is, what if you put a married fish into the fishbowl? (0:16:40) Al: They get as a divorce (0:16:40) Codey: Does that en- know? (0:16:42) Codey: An- annulment, nullify, divorced, annul, marriage annulled, rip. (0:16:50) Al: You can also do a Shroom terrarium, produces Shroom. (0:16:53) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:16:55) Codey: I think that was cool. (0:16:56) Codey: Like I know people who have those like life, um, vivariums. (0:17:02) Codey: So it’s, it doesn’t, they don’t have like anything in it except for plants. (0:17:06) Codey: And it just is growing plants and it seems nice. (0:17:12) Codey: I don’t have any of those though, that I would for- (0:17:13) Al: It seems like a small update for 2- (0:17:17) Codey: Yeah, I agreed. (0:17:18) Codey: Um, that’s why the thing that I pulled out was just that there’s a fishbowl. (0:17:22) Al: I mean, I mean, do what you want. (0:17:26) Codey: Everything else was- (0:17:28) Al: Do what you want with your updates with that. (0:17:31) Al: I’m not angry at that one like I am with some version numbers. (0:17:36) Al: I just feel like, you know, if we look at the the 1.2 version update, (0:17:44) Al: it feels kind of similar sized and then it’s a jump to 2.0. (0:17:46) Codey: Yeah, what’s the logic behind this being a full number? (0:17:48) Al: like what’s different here is very small. (0:17:52) Al: Just expectation-wise, I think that people would expect more for that. (0:17:58) Codey: I don’t know. (0:18:05) Al: Next we have two kickstarters have launched. (0:18:08) Al: The first is Lou’s Lagoon. (0:18:11) Al: This has hit its goal of 10,000 euros with 28 days to go, so I think they’re fine. (0:18:21) Al: This is the game where (0:18:23) Al: I think it’s a delivery game. (0:18:26) Al: You’ve got a seaplane that you use for delivery. (0:18:26) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:18:31) Al: It looks like it could be fun. (0:18:35) Al: I’m not champing at the bit to kickstart it to be like, (0:18:39) Al: “I must play this game.” (0:18:40) Al: When it comes out, maybe I’ll be interested in it. (0:18:44) Codey: And they haven’t showed, so they’re stretch goals that they have, it’s like they show you the next stretch goal, but then they don’t show you the one after that. (0:18:54) Codey: It’s like a big old mystery. So they basically have, well, it looks like it looks like something’s there, but it is, it is vague enough, I agree. (0:18:56) Al: - Mm-hmm. That just means they haven’t decided. (0:19:02) Al: Yes. Yes, it does. (0:19:07) Codey: But yeah, the first stretch goal is, the first goal was 10,000 euros and the next one’s 50. (0:19:14) Codey: And that adds photo mode, which I’m assuming photo mode just means you can take photos. (0:19:22) Al: Yeah, yeah, it’ll be one of those like, oh, you can take selfies and put stickers on it. (0:19:25) Codey: Yeah, it would be nice to be able to see the other stretch goals, because if it was just this stretch goal, I personally wouldn’t, that wouldn’t inspire me to help them get further in the, in their goals. (0:19:40) Al: Yeah, I’m never convinced that stretch goals actually do much like I don’t I don’t do you (0:19:41) Codey: As though the dog… (0:19:47) Al: ever look at a kickstart and go I don’t think I’m going to kickstart it and then you look (0:19:50) Al: at the stretch goals and go no I’m definitely going to back it now like I think the only (0:19:54) Codey: Well– well, what if one of the next one’s is platforms? (0:19:54) Al: one really that changes people’s mind is platforms. (0:19:59) Al: Well sure yeah yeah yeah that’s what that’s fair but I also don’t think you should do (0:20:04) Codey: And I just can’t– you can’t see it. (0:20:06) Codey: You can’t– oh, true. (0:20:08) Al: stretch goals as a platform, as a stretch goal. (0:20:10) Al: I think that is something that can get people to back it, but I also think that that is going (0:20:16) Al: to bite you. You know, it’s going to be a problem. I think that you should not promise these things, (0:20:18) Codey: Mm hmm. That’s fair. (0:20:21) Al: but that is just what I’ve seen from so many Kickstarters, is that is where problems come, (0:20:27) Al: is when you promise a platform as a stretch goal. You’ve never tried it. I think I can’t remember (0:20:34) Al: who it was. There was some some Kickstarter I was looking at this week where they said that they (0:20:38) Al: weren’t promising switch to because (0:20:40) Al: they didn’t have a dev kit and they couldn’t promise that. (0:20:42) Al: And I’m like, that’s the right way to do these things. (0:20:44) Codey: Mm-hmm (0:20:44) Al: If you’ve never used it before, don’t promise it. (0:20:47) Al: And hopefully it’ll come at some point. (0:20:49) Al: You can say later on, you can switch to this platform. (0:20:53) Al: If you want, you can switch your key to that one. (0:20:54) Al: That’d be fine. (0:20:55) Al: Like that works quite well. (0:20:57) Al: Although the problem with switching from Steam to Switch is that Nintendo charge (0:21:02) Al: for keys, whereas Steam, you can just create as many keys as you want. (0:21:07) Al: It’s like something like $7 per key that Nintendo charge (0:21:10) Al: for people. So it’s actually more expensive for them to sell you Switch with a key than (0:21:18) Al: the other way, than with Steam. Whereas if they just buy it, sell it through the store, (0:21:21) Al: it’s I believe the same percentage cut. Fun fact. (0:21:29) Codey: some insider baseballs. (0:21:34) Al: uh yeah so yeah I think as part of my trying to kick start fewer games I don’t think i’m going to (0:21:39) Al: kick start this one um maybe i’ll play it when it comes out we’ll see I cannot (0:21:42) Codey: Can you hear the dogs squeaking? (0:21:46) Codey: Okay, good. You’ll hear it if you end up using the recording. You will. Let me go yell a dog really quick before we do the last one. (0:21:56) Codey: Okay. (0:21:59) Al: And finally, we have Autonomica, which is the game that was farm folks that was then taken over (0:22:08) Al: by a different team when the original team couldn’t fulfill the game. And then they decided to make a (0:22:13) Al: different game and had the same name on it. And then they changed the name and now they’ve (0:22:17) Al: launched another Kickstarter for this game because the team that took over the project never got like (0:22:23) Al: they’ve said they didn’t get any of the money from the original Kickstarter. However, one good thing (0:22:29) Al: I’ve said that anyone who backed the original Kickstarter will get a key for the new game. So (0:22:33) Al: they’re honoring that even though they didn’t get that money, which is good, which is nice. (0:22:39) Al: Anyway, that’s that game. I think some people who backed the original game aren’t happy because (0:22:42) Al: it’s a very different game now. If you look at like the videos of farm folks and it’s very much (0:22:44) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:22:49) Al: cozy cam farming life sim, whereas this is like very in your face automated automation game. (0:22:57) Al: Also, there are ghosts that you have. (0:22:59) Al: go and fight. So it feels very different, but you can’t get them, you can’t hold them (0:23:07) Al: to the promises of a different team, right? Like that’s not how these things work. So I think it’s (0:23:13) Al: interesting that they ever decided to publicly be like we are taking over this project and rather (0:23:20) Al: they’d just be like here’s our new game, but maybe there’s an advantage to that in terms of you get (0:23:27) Al: the the name credit from the (0:23:29) Al: previous game that people had backed. I don’t know. Anyway, (0:23:32) Al: it’s out now it has hit its goal. It had a huge goal. They (0:23:36) Codey: Yeah. (0:23:36) Al: had $170,000 goal and they have absolutely smashed that they’re (0:23:41) Codey: Yep. (0:23:42) Codey: And they show their stretch goals or they they show you can at least tell what the next next step is. (0:23:50) Codey: So at three hundred thousand, which they’re going to hit probably in maybe half hour, depending on how fast this goes. (0:23:56) Al: Yes, they might be before we finish recording because they’re 297,000 just now. (0:24:01) Codey: Yeah. (0:24:02) Codey: Yeah. (0:24:04) Codey: is aquaponic farming. (0:24:06) Codey: just super cool and the next thing you can’t really see i’m assuming it’s going to say (0:24:09) Codey: construction drones but it does say drones and it’s it’s like cton drones um I mean and then if (0:24:11) Al: It does look like that, yeah (0:24:19) Codey: you keep looking it it looks very that would make sense because it looks very factorial to me (0:24:24) Al: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, I mean, it’s like somebody went, I’ll like automation and farming (0:24:32) Al: games. Let’s add all of the possible automation into this farming game. And I also just like (0:24:35) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:24:36) Al: one of the things I love about this is like the characters have ragdoll physics. So if (0:24:39) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:24:40) Al: you’ve run in, run into, you know, one of your lines that you’ve set up, you fall over (0:24:45) Al: and it just I like, I like how ridiculous it is. And also how I want to create this massive (0:24:51) Al: farming empire. (0:24:54) Al: It’s taking that sort of thing to the, you know, one of the most weird end states you (0:25:04) Al: could logical end points here, right? (0:25:07) Al: Because you’ve got the cosy end of the farming genre, and then you’ve got whatever this is. (0:25:14) Codey: Yeah, this game looks amazing. (0:25:18) Codey: I’m still scrolling through their game highlights and stuff. (0:25:22) Codey: And it’s all– (0:25:23) Codey: this is an intense game. (0:25:25) Codey: There’s a lot going on here. (0:25:26) Al: Look at how big you can build the buildings. (0:25:29) Codey: Yeah, they basically have Avril Lavigne in here as someone. (0:25:32) Al: I don’t get it. (0:25:33) Codey: You don’t know Avril Lavigne? (0:25:35) Al: No, I know Avril Lavigne. I don’t get the reference. (0:25:38) Codey: There’s relationships and NPCs. (0:25:41) Codey: Everyone has a blah, blah, blah. (0:25:43) Codey: one of the NPCs is named. (0:25:44) Codey: Avril, and she’s definitely a punk woman. (0:25:49) Al: Oh, I see. OK, yeah, I guess so. I mean, she doesn’t really look like Avril Lavigne though. (0:25:54) Codey: But she is a punk woman named Avril. (0:25:58) Codey: That’s all that is needed. (0:25:58) Al: Yeah, OK, sure. I’m not saying she’s not inspired by that, (0:26:01) Al: but I wouldn’t look at that and go, “That’s Avril Lavigne,” if she wasn’t called Avril. (0:26:02) Codey: Ooh. (0:26:06) Codey: Oh, but there’s, if you scroll down a little bit more, there’s a long haired, (0:26:10) Codey: tattooed guitarist guy that is going to. (0:26:14) Codey: Be who I try and date 100%. (0:26:17) Codey: Okay. (0:26:18) Codey: I’m going to stop this. (0:26:19) Codey: I am going to play this game when it comes out, but I am not in the place to back it. (0:26:24) Codey: Al, have you backed it? (0:26:25) Al: Well, as you know, I am trying to reduce the number of games that I back on Kickstarter, (0:26:31) Al: and I announced this on the harvest season slack that I was going to be doing this. (0:26:37) Al: I was going to stop backing farming games, and then this came out two days later, and yeah. (0:26:39) Codey: Yeah, yep. Yeah, you backed it. Okay, but this like, this game is specifically like this isn’t you this game is for you. It’s like if it’s like if I promised that and then a bug game came out. I’m like, well, dang it, you know. (0:26:46) Al: Look, OK, right. I’m gonna… (0:26:51) Al: Exactly, exactly. (0:26:56) Al: Exactly. (0:26:59) Al: Come on, we just gotta, you know, give me some slack. (0:27:04) Codey: Yep, I’m, I’m right there with you, dude. Like I, I get it. I understand. (0:27:10) Codey: Well, I, I look forward to playing it. Yeah, I look forward to playing it with you. (0:27:10) Al: Uh, yeah, I’m excited for this game. (0:27:15) Al: Looks like they’re planning for this to come out next year, October 2020. (0:27:20) Codey: Love that because I will have money at that point or we won’t have an economy anymore and the world will be in shambles (0:27:28) Codey: so (0:27:28) Al: Yeah, oh, that’s the news. (0:27:29) Codey: Either I will be able to afford this game or no one will be playing this game (0:27:37) Codey: Yay the world (0:27:42) Codey: Oh (0:27:45) Al: We are now going to talk about bug and seek, which is the first of our bug series of indeterminate (0:27:53) Al: length. (0:27:54) Al: It’s probably two, two is probably the length. (0:27:57) Al: So I have not played. (0:27:59) Al: So Corey, tell me about bug and C. (0:28:02) Codey: bug and seek. So this game we I like found it in an Instagram post and I was like wait why haven’t (0:28:08) Codey: we be talking about this game? Wait this game’s already out. Why haven’t we been talking about (0:28:11) Codey: this game? Um so please it was fine um so it is $15 on Steam um it is available as for both Mac (0:28:12) Al: Yes, I remember that because you were like, here’s a game and you’re like, it’s already (0:28:15) Al: out. (0:28:16) Al: And I’m like, wow, sorry for not knowing all of the games. (0:28:28) Codey: and windows. I am playing it on Switch so (0:28:32) Codey: it’s definitely at least on Switch. I know that’s also a mobile option. There are two DLCs. One is (0:28:37) Codey: isopods, which like think of like roly polies or pill bugs, sow bugs. What do you call these things? (0:28:46) Al: Oh, yes. We call them, um, uh, what are they, a Woodlice. That’s what we call them. (0:28:52) Codey: Oh, Woodlouse, yeah. (0:28:53) Codey: Well, that is technically what they are, so. (0:28:56) Al: Oh, is that their, that their, well, obviously their official name is probably something in Latin, (0:29:01) Al: but I guess that would be their most official English term. Interesting. (0:29:02) Codey: Right, but the category is like, (0:29:05) Codey: Woodlouse is basically their thing, yeah. (0:29:08) Codey: But everyone, and then isopods is just because they are (0:29:11) Codey: in the class isopoda, I don’t know. (0:29:15) Codey: They’re in a group of organisms that is, (0:29:17) Codey: the group is collectively known as isopoda. (0:29:22) Codey: So yeah, depending on where you’re from, (0:29:23) Codey: there are all kinds of different names. (0:29:25) Codey: So there was one that added a whole new thing, (0:29:27) Codey: like a whole bunch of those, which is awesome (0:29:29) Codey: because they are fast becoming some of, (0:29:32) Codey: some really big pets options here. (0:29:36) Codey: ‘Cause you can, there are different species (0:29:38) Codey: that have different colors. (0:29:41) Codey: So there’s like zebra isopods, (0:29:42) Codey: which are a little black and white striped. (0:29:46) Codey: There’s rubber ducky isopods, (0:29:47) Codey: which are all like this darker color, (0:29:50) Codey: but then just the front part of their. (0:29:52) Codey: Exoskeleton has this almost like a orange color, so it’s like a bill. (0:29:59) Codey: Yeah, so that’s makes sense that they had that and then weevils there’s a weevils DLC and that makes sense because weevils are some of our not some of they are the most diverse animal on the entire planet so. (0:30:12) Al: And that’s not the Pokemon Weaver. (0:30:15) Codey: Not the Pokemon we vial these are I call them snoot beetles so. (0:30:23) Codey: So they are Beatles in the family curcullion today and they have super long rostra or rostrums. (0:30:34) Codey: Which is just their their snout basically they’re like an anteater but a bug they just got this really long snoot. (0:30:43) Codey: And they usually have their antenna either at the end of the snoot or like buried in their snoot there’s like a little concavity that they kind of like tuck it into it’s really cute. (0:30:52) Codey: And they come in all kinds of sizes all kinds of cute colors so makes sense that they would be in this game as a DLC. (0:31:01) Codey: I bought this on I bought the bundle that included the DLC and the main game on my switch because I wanted to be able to play in bed and then the first quality of life update has been pushed to mobile and PC but has not yet been pushed on switch and it adds just some basic quality of life stuff. (0:31:19) Codey: that would be beneficial to have and I am excited. (0:31:22) Codey: For them to put it on switch whenever, whenever I’m assuming it’s (0:31:25) Codey: Nintendo’s fault because Nintendo was very particular about these things. (0:31:29) Codey: Um, yeah, so the story of this game is quote in bug and seek. (0:31:35) Codey: You’ve just bought an abandoned insectarium or bug zoo in bug Berg. (0:31:42) Codey: Once the lifeblood of the town and its economy, someone stole all of (0:31:46) Codey: the bugs in the dead of night. (0:31:48) Codey: Now it’s up to you to catch and sell bugs that make jokes. (0:31:52) Codey: Fulfill requests from the local shops and reestablish the (0:31:56) Codey: insectarium as a town icon. (0:31:58) Codey: Become a master bug hunter as you level up your bug catching skills and relax. (0:32:03) Codey: There are no wrong choices, no energy levels to worry about and plenty of (0:32:07) Codey: time to complete the quests and the jobs. (0:32:09) Al: I have a question. I don’t think you will. “How does someone steal all the bugs?” (0:32:10) Codey: I have an answer. (0:32:17) Codey: So I do have an answer. (0:32:19) Al: Oh no! (0:32:19) Codey: Um, so it’s basically like (0:32:22) Codey: so this is a live insect zoo base. It’s not like a dead museum. Um, so someone just coming, (0:32:30) Codey: imagine if someone broke into a zoo and stole all of the animals. It’s kind of very similar, (0:32:34) Codey: but it’s a lot easier because they’re so small. Um, it’s easier to grab them and steal them. Um, (0:32:41) Codey: so yeah, someone did that. I think they also stole a bunch of the tanks as well. Um, I mean, (0:32:48) Codey: So I run an insect zoo in real life for my university. (0:32:52) Codey: And I think it would probably take one person with a dolly, maybe 15 minutes to steal the mall. (0:33:00) Al: Right, OK, yeah, sure, but like stealing, OK, fine, stealing them for OK, so it’s just (0:33:05) Al: stealing them from a zoo. (0:33:07) Al: I understand. (0:33:08) Al: I thought it was stealing all of the bugs from the whole town and I’m like, that doesn’t (0:33:08) Codey: Yeah. (0:33:11) Al: feel like it’s possible. (0:33:12) Codey: Oh, no, it’s from the museum or the insect zoo. Yeah. (0:33:13) Al: OK, that makes that makes more sense. (0:33:18) Codey: And this, this kind of stuff actually happens not even just with (0:33:22) Codey: living in sex but also with specimens there in I want to say Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, there was a huge heist that someone stole a bunch of specimens and it was like up to 50, no way more than $50,000, it was a lot of money, a lot of monies worth of specimens, and they’ve never found them. (0:33:43) Codey: So, this is something that can happen, especially if you have like really old stuff, collectors will want to buy it. (0:33:52) Codey: of the case here, like they say that the previous, uh, insectarium owner had a lot of really rare (0:33:59) Codey: things there. Um, and so maybe the person wanted to make money off of selling them. Uh, I mean, (0:34:07) Codey: in my, in our insect zoo that we have, we have tarantulas and a couple of them are like 13 years (0:34:13) Codey: old and they’re pretty, they’re pretty big. And they, I mean, they live to be 30, so she’s still (0:34:17) Codey: got a lot of life in her. Um, but to buy one that size after having it, (0:34:23) Codey: growing and stuff is probably like 500 bucks. Yeah. So. (0:34:26) Al: ethical questions as to whether or not you should be able to own living things, but that’s a whole (0:34:36) Codey: - Yeah. (0:34:37) Al: different debate. We are not a morality podcast. We have opinions on morals. Trans rights matter, (0:34:39) Codey: - Correct. (0:34:43) Codey: - We do, but we do not debate them. (0:34:45) Al: and I’m very annoyed about the situation in the UK just now, but you know. (0:34:52) Codey: Yeah, I don’t think I can point to a single place and be happy about its (0:34:56) Codey: situation, maybe New Zealand, but I, that’s also just because I’m probably (0:34:56) Al: Yeah, they have some issues currently with that. Well, they’ve had issues for a long time (0:35:00) Codey: ignorant of what might be happening there. (0:35:09) Al: with indigenous people and, you know. Sorry, a little bit of a detour there. So yes, (0:35:12) Codey: - Yeah, yep. (0:35:18) Codey: Nope. (0:35:20) Al: we have opinions about things, but we’re not a morality podcast in and of itself. (0:35:23) Codey: But as I am an entomologist, (0:35:26) Codey: I have opinions on the realism of bugs in games. (0:35:30) Al: Tell me, tell me how realistic is this creature collector based on bugs? (0:35:36) Codey: I love it it’s so good there have been so when you initially when you’re coming up to catch a (0:35:41) Codey: bug you like shake a tree or whatever and then a little bug outline like flies around and the (0:35:47) Codey: outlines are spectacular it’s not like oh there’s an outline for a butterfly and it’s going to be (0:35:53) Codey: the same generic outline for a butterfly no matter what um like think of like animal crossing or (0:35:57) Codey: whatever where it’s just kind of a shadow and you don’t it has like different sizes but other than (0:36:04) Codey: that you don’t really know what’s going on no each (0:36:06) Codey: of these bugs has their own outline. (0:36:09) Codey: Um, and before I even catch something I can, as an entomologist, (0:36:14) Codey: I can tell what it is pretty much. (0:36:16) Codey: Um, so for example, the first time I caught it to banded, which they don’t say (0:36:21) Codey: that they say house fly or sorry, horse fly, cause it is a horse fly. (0:36:24) Codey: I was like, oh my gosh, this is definitely a to banded. (0:36:27) Codey: Um, and then I caught it and yeah, it’s a horse fly. (0:36:30) Codey: Um, so the outlines are great. (0:36:32) Codey: the graphics are great, the (0:36:36) Codey: little quips that the bugs have, like they all have their (0:36:39) Codey: own little like jokes and then little blurbs under them once (0:36:43) Codey: you start filling out the journal, I don’t think it has a (0:36:47) Codey: real like a specific name, but there’s like a journal that you (0:36:49) Codey: start filling out those it’s all true, factual knowledge. And (0:36:57) Codey: I’m, I’m in love with it. The the little blurbs have made me (0:37:00) Codey: cackle and I actually have six that I wrote down that were my (0:37:03) Codey: favorite out of 220 bugs. (0:37:06) Codey: Okay, there there are but here are the six here my top six (0:37:10) Codey: little blurbs. So far, I haven’t caught everything. The blue (0:37:14) Codey: banded B said, I’m blue and from Australia, but no one gave me a (0:37:21) Codey: cartoon. (0:37:22) Al: Australia. I’m not sure who that’s meant to be referencing. (0:37:27) Codey: Bluey. (0:37:28) Al: Oh, blue. Oh my word, I’m just… Oh, goodness. (0:37:34) Codey: So it’s a blue-banded piece, I blew in for my- (0:37:34) Al: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, I can’t think of anything that has (0:37:36) Codey: Australia. I just- I giggled. But bluey. Black garden ants. So (0:37:40) Al: a cartoon that’s blue and it’s from Australia. I can only think of Sonic and he’s not Australian. (0:37:45) Al: Yeah, blue, of course. Classic. (0:37:51) Codey: this is not as pop culture reference. This is- this is just (0:37:54) Codey: real. The black garden ant says I have my own pet, an aphid. And (0:38:00) Codey: it’s because they farm aphids. And it’s so cool that they (0:38:04) Codey: I’m not included though. (0:38:06) Codey: Basically these ants will like farm aphids and they’ll protect them and they’ll feed them (0:38:11) Codey: like little bits of food that they want and then the aphid will like spit out little honeydew (0:38:17) Codey: just like this sugary snack out of it’s not like it’s out of its back so like the top of its back (0:38:19) Al: Mm-hmm. (0:38:25) Codey: there’s just these little things it like secretes this stuff and then the it’s like sweat yeah and (0:38:28) Al: Oh no, like sweat. (0:38:32) Codey: And then the ants drink it, and they love it. (0:38:34) Codey: And so they just keep– (0:38:34) Al: Oh, I don’t like that. (0:38:36) Codey: This is cute that the Black Garden Ant’s little blurb is about its relationship with an aphid. (0:38:42) Codey: The blueberry bee says, “Eat a blueberry, thank a bee,” which is true. (0:38:46) Codey: If you have eaten a blueberry, you have a bee to thank for. (0:38:50) Codey: They are, thank for it. (0:38:52) Codey: They are the pollinators. (0:38:55) Codey: The brown Argus, which is a butterfly, said, “Be a good chap and fetch my ant butler for me.” (0:39:03) Codey: And this made me laugh because they… (0:39:06) Codey: So this is a butterfly, but as a caterpillar, they secrete something that makes the ants want to take them into their nest and then take care of them. (0:39:18) Codey: And then they basically live in the ant colony and just make the ants do their bidding and then they grow. (0:39:27) Codey: And it’s just, it’s hilarious that butterflies do this. (0:39:32) Codey: Carpenter Ant, call me a termite and I’ll blow this place down. (0:39:36) Codey: This is so aggressive because it’s not a termite, it’s a Carpenter Ant, but people call them termites all the time. (0:39:44) Codey: And then the last one, have you seen Breaking Bad now? (0:39:48) Al: I have not, but I’m aware of it and some, I would understand some reference. (0:39:52) Codey: Some of the references. (0:39:54) Codey: Okay, so this is the tarantula hawk wasp and the blurb is I am the wasp who knocks. (0:40:02) Codey: And I’m sure I’m sure people who have watched Breaking Bad are laughing (0:40:02) Al: Yeah, I don’t get that (0:40:06) Al: Probably I’m sure they are (0:40:06) Codey: their ass off right now. So the Tarantula Hawk wasp is the (0:40:12) Codey: state insect of New Mexico. New Mexico is where Breaking Bad was (0:40:18) Codey: wrong. And in one of the episodes, because about this (0:40:23) Codey: chemistry teacher who becomes a meth dealer. And he just becomes (0:40:28) Codey: this like he goes from being a pretty much the dad for Malcolm (0:40:31) Codey: in the middle because that’s who that it was the same actor, just (0:40:34) Codey: like an irregular dad. (0:40:36) Codey: to becoming this, like, hardened drug overlord guy. (0:40:40) Codey: And at one point, someone close to him finds out that this is, (0:40:44) Codey: and they’re just so worried that someone’s going to come knocking in the night and come and kill them. (0:40:51) Codey: And he’s just like, “No one’s going to come. I am the one that go places and make people scared. I am the one who knocks.” (0:41:01) Codey: And it’s just like, whoa, this moment when like someone close to him who (0:41:06) Codey: has continued to see him as this, like dad down the street guy, uh, finds (0:41:11) Codey: out how horrifying he is. (0:41:13) Codey: Um, so yeah, tarantula hospital, Hawk wasp. (0:41:16) Codey: I am the wasp who knocks. (0:41:18) Codey: It’s also a scary wasp. (0:41:20) Codey: They will not, um, really go for people, but they literally (0:41:26) Codey: kill and eat tarantulas. (0:41:29) Codey: So yeah, they are pretty scary. (0:41:30) Al: Oh, OK. Hence the name. (0:41:33) Codey: So the bug realism and the little blurbs, 10 out of 10. (0:41:36) Codey: Um, I’m still enjoying them. (0:41:37) Codey: Every time I read a new one, uh, I love that they are either attached to the (0:41:44) Codey: biology of the animal or its name, or they add it to like pop culture or something. (0:41:49) Codey: Like it’s not just a random thing that they say. (0:41:53) Codey: I remember some of the animal crossing ones, me being like, ha, that (0:41:57) Codey: doesn’t make any sense at all, but not the case here. (0:42:00) Al: That’s high praise. (0:42:01) Codey: So 10 out of 10. (0:42:04) Codey: Bye, praise. (0:42:07) Codey: The graphics and the music of this game are pretty simple but they’re good. (0:42:12) Codey: I turned the music off because I always do but I did play it with it on for a while. (0:42:18) Codey: You don’t really need the sound for anything like accessibility wise. (0:42:22) Codey: It’s pretty much just pleasant music in the background. (0:42:26) Codey: And the graphics, I mean it’s the kind of Stardew-esque animation. (0:42:32) Al: Yeah, pretty standard kind of pixel arty, I mean it looks nice from screenshots obviously (0:42:37) Codey: Yeah, it feels the same. (0:42:41) Al: I’ve not played it, how does that feel when you’re playing it? It’s I guess it’s lower (0:42:47) Al: fidelity than Stardew, I think it’s much more kind of I guess snes maybe level sort of graphics. (0:42:53) Codey: Yeah, yeah, which I mean, when it’s too cluttered, I don’t always like that. (0:43:00) Codey: So I really like how simplistic these things are. (0:43:05) Codey: But I mean, things change over the time period. (0:43:09) Codey: So like, you start in summer, but then in the fall, a bunch of the leaves are suddenly (0:43:15) Codey: on the ground. (0:43:16) Codey: So there’s leaf piles for you to rummage through. (0:43:19) Codey: I just hit winter so I haven’t figured out if there’s anything else but to leave (0:43:23) Codey: piles are still there there are still insects in the winter. There’s also like different areas (0:43:28) Codey: that I’ll talk about later like the desert for example is still going to have things so (0:43:35) Codey: things will change like as the time goes on physically in the game but I mean they just (0:43:43) Codey: highlight what needs to be highlighted which is the the bugs so I’m here for it. (0:43:46) Al: Yeah it’s interesting because I guess that’s the the quite dramatic thing is you notice (0:43:53) Al: like everything is pretty low fidelity except the images of the insects and they’re still very (0:44:00) Al: clearly pixel art right like you can see the individual pixels but they are much more detailed (0:44:05) Al: than anything else you can see on this game other than I guess the text and a few of the buttons and (0:44:07) Codey: Yep (0:44:12) Al: and stuff like that. But like the people, the houses, the trees, the bushes, the leaf (0:44:16) Al: tools, they’re all very low fidelity, which is nice, but they’re very detailed bug images. (0:44:24) Codey: Mm-hmm. Yup. And I appreciate that. (0:44:30) Codey: Um, so the mechanics of the game, it’s a pretty simple gameplay loop. It’s all right. (0:44:34) Codey: I feel like there could be a little bit more complexity to it, but I am not. (0:44:40) Codey: Uh, I can’t honestly point out how it could be more difficult, um, or how it could be different. (0:44:46) Codey: I think the biggest thing is you pretty much just fall into this catch bugs, cell bugs, um, loop. (0:44:54) Codey: It doesn’t really change much. Um, I think it might be nice to have like, maybe some traps you could set and you could place them in different areas. (0:45:06) Codey: Maybe that would change some things, um, and keep it a little, a little different. But for the most part, I just am doing a circuit every day. (0:45:16) Codey: Um, and changing it up because sometimes there are things, um, in different spots. So I’ll get to that. So catch bugs is the first part. (0:45:26) Codey: There’s 220 insects that are based on real insects, which is great. Um, they range from common to legendary and they’re found in, um, the areas and the seasons where they would be in the real world. (0:45:38) Codey: So, um, if it’s something that is attracted to man-made structures, it will be in the like picnic tables and the trash cans and whatever. (0:45:46) Codey: If it is, um, something that would be with flowers, it will be on flowers, you know, that kind of thing instead of just finding them. (0:45:56) Codey: Um, you can find them in trees, flowers, grass, logs, under rocks, on man-made objects. There’s also a cave. Um, and you can look under there, but they’re never just kind of like in the overworld. They’re always like, you always have to. (0:46:08) Al: Hmm, they’re not like flying around like you would see in Animal Crossing. (0:46:12) Codey: Yeah, no, you, you have to encounter an object and like interact with the object, um, to be able to see them. And each object, you can interact with them. (0:46:26) Codey: Um, and so, you know, if you are trying to find something that, you know, comes out at night and is in trees, maybe wait to touch your trees all the nighttime. (0:46:38) Codey: Um, yeah, but that’s pretty simple. I mean, you just walk around and you can, you have two net well, two buttons that correspond to nets. (0:46:48) Codey: It’s like right bumper makes you swipe your net to net to the right and left bumper is swipes your net to the. (0:46:56) Codey: So there’s no up or down, it’s just left and right. Um, (0:46:56) Al: Mm hmm. Okay. So is it quite easy, then, if you if you press the one in the right direction, you’ve got (0:47:04) Codey: yeah, there isn’t, they don’t get diff more difficult to catch. It’s just that as you increase your expertise and become a master bug catcher, you are just able to encounter more rare things, but they are always the same speed. (0:47:24) Codey: The same whatever, um, which I also kind of like, honestly. (0:47:29) Al: It’s good to know having to like chase after something like you do an animal crossing or the annoying thing where you’re like you don’t quite hit it in the right angle and therefore you miss it sort of. (0:47:34) Codey: Yeah, no. (0:47:40) Codey: Yeah, no, none of that. It’s always in the left, right? Like, um, orientation and you just have to make sure. And even then, if you like swipe, but then you move a little bit. (0:47:50) Codey: If you’ve like, if you swipe and you see that you missed you, sometimes you have a little bit of time. (0:47:54) Codey: to like move down a smidge for it to catch the thing after you&rs

It's time for another Fast Lane, and, you're not gonna believe this, but ha ha ha... how do i turn this thing off. We kick things off with Tokyo Drift's twelfth minute, including (possibly, unlikely) a new debate. It was a quiet couple of weeks for news, but we had plenty of VIN to Run, including: calculating Vin's payment-per-word for Groot as well as tracking his ongoing push for Dos Bandoleros. We come up with ways to get Randy Carter hired for Fast XI (or at least to get a P.G.A. credit on Dos Bandoleros). Will we ever see Mama Toretto? We get a new theory about the head of Eteon. Are we so out of touch? Or is it the kids who are wrong, at movie theaters? We receive some photos from Universal Studios that possibly offer a hint into cars in upcoming F&F films. Email us: family@cageclub.me Visit our Patreon page at patreon.com/2fast2forever.  Show your support at the 2 Fast 2 Forever shop! Extra special shout-out to Alex Elonen, Nick Burris, Brian Rodriguez (High School Slumber Party), Michael McGahon, Lane Middleton, Jason Rainey, Wes Hampton, Mike Gallier, Josh Buckley (Whole Lotta Wolves), Michael Moser, Christian Larson, Terra New One, Aaron Woloszyn, and Randy Carter for joining at the “Interpol's Most Wanted” level or above! Intro music by Nico Vasilo. Interlude and outro music by Wes Hampton.

Hey fool fam! Who's ready for the best Coachella breakdown you've ever seen?! Hahaha today we do a deep dive on the entire festival weekend and honey we had a TIME! The good the bad the ugly, baby it was fierce! Hope you love the breakdown!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wives get to thinking about how life is too short.Based on the works of CoyoteHoward. Listen to the Podcast at Steamy Stories. Jenny & The Barbeque GatheringIt was the picture of Americana in southwest Idaho.A partly cloudy sky, with more sun than shade. Deep green grass. Horses munching away in the pasture while the kids, whose ages ranged from 2-16, played on the trampoline and playset.The husbands primarily were under the porch overhang, gathered around the grill, while Osvaldo and his 8 year old son Elliot jokingly played corn-hole in the grass.Their wives were on the furniture on the other end of the porch, doing as women do, keeping an eye on the children for the most part and enjoying their own trials and tribulations. Most of which focused on family dramas, future plans and prices for various groceries."Yeah, so what I'd like to do," Brady said, beginning to flip the burgers from the top left, "is kinda what you did, but I'd like to do 4 rails instead."Steve nodded and took a drink of beer from his Payette Brewing Co. bottle. He absentmindedly watched Brady do so, his left thumb tucked into the front pocket of his jeans, shifting his cowboy booted feet to equal distribution instead of one leg being cocked slightly. His slight belly showed his 36 years of age, and while he didn't like it, and wished he could find the consistent motivation to work out, his wife didn't mind, and his shirts still fit, including the plain white t-shirt he wore now."Yeah I don't mind the three, but the three inch- I wish I'd of been able to afford the three and a half," Steve said, shifting the bottle to his left and adjusting his multicam hat on his head, though it needn't be done. His brown, fade cut hair wasn't bothering him, it was more just a habit."You did your fence yourself?" Jeff asked. He was blond, worked out tons and was wearing a polo, cargo shorts and flip flops.Steve nodded, "Yeah the little mustang got out suddenly last year, little shit."The women meanwhile were discussing flowers."I'm so jealous of your little play area Jenny," Hannah said, taking a sip of her soda.She was married to Brady, and three of the tikes running around were hers. She was 36, was 5'7" and 133 pounds. She knew she was attractive, as all the women here were, but her husband appreciated her the most, and that's exactly the way she prefered it.They'd been married for well over 10 years, he was the father of all her babies, and they led a great life."Well it's been a lot of work, but yeah, it's coming together," Jenny said. "We've done a ton of work just to try and keep the weeds away." Her husband was Steve, and as she finished her sentence she looked over at her man.They'd been together the longest of the group of six couples, having been dating since junior year of high school, over 18 years prior. They had the second oldest child there, at 15, and the second youngest as well, a three year old girl.They'd been the ones to leave though, he going into the Army right after high school and finally leaving six years prior, and they'd all reconnected.Steve was still her king though, and she his queen, as they routinely told each other. Even now, as Heather, a half-asian, half-hispanic woman asked her about the newest berry they'd planted Jenny couldn't help but think about what her king had done to her last night, and her panties got warm under her flowery, blue, spaghetti-strapped sundress.Steve noticed her looking at him, and flashed her a smile, giving his queen a fun wink.And that's why she couldn't help but love him. He just did those little kinds of things that other men didn't with their wives. Sure he had a temper, he played video games, his memory was horrible.But his positives more than made up for it."I'd like to plant blackberries, especially if they have uh, no thorns," Amanda winked, and took a bite of potato salad. She was a short, slightly heavy black haired woman married to Osvaldo.She looked over and saw her son and husband playing cornhole still, though Jeff and Joe had gone over to play with them. They were married to Heather and Ellen, respectively, to Amanda's left."Yeah me too," Hannah said, to which the others laughed slightly."Bullshit," Kelly said, deciphering the code words; "You have too much going on already. Brady would strangle you!""Oh he'd be a little upset, but he always cools off," Hannah said, chuckling.But Jenny couldn't get the thought out of her mind now. The thought of how Steve had taken extra care to put the baby to bed, to not play Mass Effect, and to take her to bed.He'd sweetly pulled her jeans off, then nuzzled and licked at her cunt through her panties until she'd cum, THEN he had proceeded to have his way with her, bringing her off several more times before finishing off inside her.She imagined she could still feel his cum, making her wetter still.She suddenly looked at the whole situation. At everyone around her and the thought of them getting old, tired, and ending..."Hannah, watch Claire for me. I'm gonna go get fucked silly in your powder room," she said, locking eyes with her friend and rising with a slight smirk.Hannah's eyes went wide as she choked slightly and let out a huge smile."What?!" she exclaimed, but Jenny was already striding across the patio to her man."Did she just-""What did she say?""Whoa!""Hahaha! Oh shit she's really doing it!"Jenny had reached Steve, grabbed him by the belt buckle with one hand and had begun leading him away, walking forward as if leading a stud to a mare."Hey babe, whoa, what's up?" he asked.She turned and smirked a small smile at him, and she knew it achieved the desired affect. Her intentions must have been written all over her face, because he couldn't help but put his beer down and follow, his own smile bursting forth.She lead him through the door and didn't give him time to properly shut it, but he was able to with a strong hand."Jen, what are you doing?" Steve asked, grabbing her wrist. She was closer to her target though."I need you," she said, suddenly breathless as she kissed him deeply, her sexy body pressing up against his.She made sure to press her bra'ed 34C breasts into his chest, her left hand around his back, her right up in his short hair.Steve's hands went around her pinched waist first, then his left up her side and back while his right went around and down to her plump ass, cupping and kneading.She moaned at the touches, then broke the french kiss and backed away towards the half-bath by the front door.Steve followed eagerly and suddenly they were in the little bathroom, finding the light and locking the door behind them."Hun, what's gotten int-ohh shit!" Steve started, but she hushed him by immediately dropping to her knees, and getting his jeans undone."Damn girl, the fuck has gotten into you suddenly?" he asked, as she got the front of his pants open, not pausing and pulled down his underwear too. But his hands went to her head, lightly rubbing the sides and back encouragingly."Can't I just want my husband?" she asked before throating his semi-hard, 6 inch cock in one go."Ah fuck," he said, his biology taking over for a moment as he thrust his hips an inch forward, his hands tightening on her head.Her tongue was going crazy on the underside of his shaft, the tip even coming past her bottom lip slightly to lick his balls as much as she could, and he got rigid hard in moments.He gasped and breathed as if he were in pain, but she knew he wasn't. Jenny didn't give him head very often, so this must be a real treat for him. Though truth be told, this was a means to an end. She bobbed her face on his crotch for a dozen or so pumps, until she felt his cockhead nudge the back of her throat. That end was now.She rose, looked him in the eye as her right hand grasped his hard prick, some of her hair in her eye as she did so, stroking it in short strokes as she turned to the vanity and mirror.God she looked slutty. One of her spaghetti straps had fallen off her shoulder and her lips were an excited red from having just been stretched in an obscene 'O' around his magnificent cock.But she could still FEEL her sex drive though, his taste still in her mouth. Her boobs were hypersensitive in their confines, feeling wonderfully constrained as she breathed, and her panties were probably soaked through.She pulled up the hem of her dress and bent over the counter, looking back at him over her right shoulder."God, just fuck me. Fuck me!" she said, "I need it."Steve couldn't refuse this personification of pure lust in front of him. She wasn't his wife in this moment. She was a bitch in heat. A mare in season. And he was going to give her the beast she needed.He grabbed her brief-cut panties with both hands and yanked them down with animalistic urgency to her feet, where she stepped out with one sandaled foot.He then rose and put his right hand to her cunt, immediately confirming how wanton she was by the heat and wetness he found there, easily one of the wettest times he'd ever seen her."Oh fuck," she said, finding her own lustful gaze looking back at her in the vanity mirror, feeling his fingers run through her sex from her clit(which he brushed ever so slightly) right up to her asshole. She knew he must've thought about playing with it, as she'd let him take her ass several times in the past year, finally.But he didn't linger, instead he stepped right up to her bent over body and slid his steel hard cock into her cunt, all in one go."Oh! Oh fuck! Oh god that feels soo good!" she practically screamed, but huskily.His hands went to her wide hips, finding her pelvic bones that made the perfect obscene handles, beginning to piston her cunt, slowly.But she wanted more, she wanted to be fucked, and fucked well.She looked over her shoulder at him, "Steve, god damnit, Fuck me!" With each stressed word she pushed herself back on his cock, sparks flying from her sopping cunt through her body as she did so as his rod plowed her depths.Out at the patio, the ladies' conversation suddenly halted when the screams and moans were faintly heard coming from the little vent, high on the side of the house. It piped the narrative from the powder room, just on the other side of the brick exterior. First Claire took notice, then all the ladies went silent, their devilish grins showing their vicarious delight. A couple of the guys noticed the silence over at the other end of the covered patio, then all the guys heard the faint echo of a raging hormonal woman's voice could just barely be heard yelling; “Steve, God damnit. Fuck me!”Jenny was rewarded with her stud pulling her hips back so that she'd fall backwards if he wasn't there, cock lodged inside her. Her hands were wrapped tightly around the spout of the faucet, now somewhat in front of her as her hair swung with his thrusts. Her tits were swaying as much as her bra would allow, and the pulling on her chest added to her sexual experience. The thumb of her left hand subconsciously rubbed the underside of the chrome spout, but in her entranced state, she imagined it was Steve's turgid cock.In moments he was fucking her hard. Fast. Making her ass jiggle with every impact of his pelvis. She felt his cock running though her with abandon, the heat from her cunt quickly turning into a fire, then a blaze, until stars burst in her vision and she screamed a carnal, drawn out "ah" in orgasm, her legs shaking uncontrollably. “Steve, you beast!” she screamed in satisfaction.Her hands slipped as they clenched and gripped the sink, Steve stepping up as her hips were pushed forward against the edge of the counter.Whereas moments before she'd cum from her assertive pushing back, now she was trapped with nowhere to go. More precisely, her hole couldn't get away from the prick fucking it.Jenny realized that she'd be forced to cum at least again, maybe more even. Her king had slowed as he'd trapped her, bringing his hands up to her shoulders and finding new grips with which to pound her.She looked up and saw her sweaty self in the mirror again, her jaw dropped open as she breathed heavy with sexual arousal, her whole body jarring with each impact of Steve's hips against her ass.God she was so sexy, and her cunt was doing such a good job of clenching around the invader, her body doing as it was designed to do, trying to bring the penis inside it to orgasm. Her hole wanted his semen. That was its purpose, to get fucked and filled by cum, so she could carry his child.And it was working, her own voice raising with every fourth or fifth quickening thrust as she felt her second orgasm building in her depths, Steve's cock hitting amazing pockets of nerves inside her.It suddenly was upon her as her left hand pressed against the mirror, her right coming around to grab Steve's hip as her cunt exploded in pleasure, her eyes wide. She rocked herself back as he tried to pull out for another thrust, trying to keep him inside her as she came, throwing her head in an out of control nodding motion and half panting, half exclaiming "ahs.”Steve for his part wasn't faring well on holding out. He regularly told Jenny that her orgasms would collect massive amounts of cash on the internet, and they usually brought him off. But Jenny had never been this needy before, and though she did have bouts of increased sexual activity, this was a whole new level.As she came again for the second time, the thrashing of her head, her hair flying and her hand on the mirror, almost got him.It was her hand landing on his right side, hip and ass cheek coupled with her rocking cunt clenching on his shaft that got him. He slammed forward to the hilt as his cum rose from his balls, rocketing down his weapon until it fired into her hot sheathe.Again and again it fired, "Oh yeah! Uh! Uh! Uh! Take it baby!" he said through blurred vision and clenched teeth.Out on the patio, the ladies were squirming; embarrassed, but getting aroused. Claire was frustrated when she had to go comfort a child who tripped and fell in the play area; “Tell me what I'm missing, Kelly.”

In this episode of Derapy, you know what day it is. Join the big derpshttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGO_tbgYqc9IAhfGAfcK2Bg/joinSupport the show https://www.patreon.com/Derapy?utm_campaign=creatorshare_creatorTwitchhttp://twitch.com/derapypodTwitterhttps://x.com/derapy_?s=21Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/derapy_podcast/profilecard/?igsh=MXRtdmV1cGRqZWkzMw==#kendricklamar #drake #jcole #kanye #trump #wingwongwednesday #elon #rfk

Sofia har sista turnéstoppet med Hahaha-revyn i Stockholm och äntligen ska Karolina få se denna show. Sofia avslöjar pinsamma saker som hänt på turnén och Karolina hänger ut sin kille. Tänk att ni finns

Podcast - Close The Door Podcast bersama Komjen Ahmad Luthfi

Your wettest dreams will come true in this naughty RoleplayErotic Audio. Imagine that I am the hottest teacher you can imagine, with my perfect body and long blonde hair, and I have my sights set on you. The moment I saw your name on the list for parent-teacher conference, I already got excited.

Good morning, Motivational Ninjas!

YAWN!!! Boy it's been a relaxing few weeks away from Midweek Meltdown, and we hope you've all missed us live we've missed you... However, let's not waste any time as we get right back where we left off... Well sorta! ANYWAY, here comes Zero, Ponyboy, and Tommy Gunns... Did ya see what I did there with the title by the way? HA HA HA!... "I'm so lonely..." - Conquest from "Invincible"⁠⁠Reaper Apparel Co⁠⁠ - Reaper is not only a brand, its a complete life adjustment. A commitment to live your most authentic way every single day! Use discount code: Zero815 for 10% off your order!⁠⁠Psycho Pharma⁠⁠ - Psycho Pharma is a fast-growing company that innovates aggressive formulas to be better than most of the run of the mill products many other brands produce. All Psycho Pharma products are produced in an FDA registered manufacturing facility that follows cGMP standards, with assays on each ingredient and COA's/batch records kept for every run. Use discount code: PONYBOY815 for 20% off your order!

The one where Green Blooded Bastard watches Venom: The Last Dance. Tom Hardy was like don't kill the horse please! HAHAHA

Sebbo joins us again for some A grade banter with the lads.Join the only official Hello Sport Super Coach League, where the winner will be showered with a huge prize. Join using code: 100632.4 Pines, a brewery born in Manly and enjoyed everywhere. Try the 4 Pines Japanese Lager wherever you buy your beer: https://4pinesbeer.com.au/Good Day Multivitamin, it's the least you can do. Use code 'dribblers' for 10% off your order here: https://www.begoodhealth.com.au/Grumpy Coffee, everything to turn your frown upside down. Use code "COWS" for 10% off your order this week here: https://grumpycoffee.com.au/Neds. Whatever you bet on, Take it to the Neds Level. Visit: https://www.neds.com.au/Holey Moley OpenDylan Brown Signs 10 Year ContractLachy Galvin's FutureMGMT YearsSeverance & 90's MoviesSupercoach RecapNRL Round 2 Preview Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lynn IversonMy ‘66 was born aqua. I got mine after my brother passed (he was a corvette guy though). He restored antique muscle for a living. I asked myself “what am I waiting for? Life is fleeting”. Saved up my tips from pouring beer at a brewery on Friday nights and paid cash. Now I am slowly restoring this car with my 12 year old daughter. Ford Mustang, The Early Years Podcast -- Guest Interview Application============How long have you owned your Classic Mustang?For about 2.5 yearsWhat is his/her name?No, it's not Sally. Hahaha. Leaning towards BettyIf you've made improvements to your classic car or restored it, what work have you done?Working on the interior nowWhat plans do you have for improvements/restoration/modification of your classic car?My daughter and will continue in the interior and maybe bodywork to restore the car to its original color, silver blue.Instagram@mustangpodcasthttps://www.instagram.com/mustangpodcast/An Expert's Guide to Maintaining Your Classic Mustangwww.TheMustangPodcast.com/repairSponsored by: National Parts Depotwww.npdlink.comWith 4 warehouses nationwide, you'll get your parts fast!"Keep it safe, keep it rollin' and keep it on the road. Until next time!" Doug Sandlerdoug@turnkeypodcast.com

If you could create a new category for the Oscars, what would it be? Best Podcast? Hahaha. Jkjkj. Seriously though, this was a fun one. The Butthead Buddies are back to talk about performative sleeping, chic chapeaus, and Hollyweird Gossip! Our next show is COMING UP! And Fin's going to skorp in over the internet!! Get tickies HERE!  

The heffer that was running around Houston Tuesday afternoon-CAPTURED y'all! Hahaha

Kiera and Britt continue their conversation from episode 958, Hiring Hygienists in Today's Economy, by discussing the shifting landscape of hygiene. This includes the pros and cons of assisted hygiene, shortened appointments, practices without hygienists, and more. Episode resources: Sign up for Dental A-Team's Virtual Summit 2025! Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00.73) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and the one and only Brittany Stone coming back for part two of our hygiene conversation. welcome back. How are you?   Britt (00:09.332) It's always fun when you start off with my full name, so I'm like, alright, let's go!   Kiera Dent (00:12.304) It is funny. You do range from Britney, Britt, like no BS Britt to B. B has recently come in. How do you feel about just B? I hope it comes across as like nice, but then I realized like, B could be taken wrong. So I never say the, hey B.   Britt (00:28.75) You're not the only one. I'm fine with it because it's easy and I'm like shoot you grew up with the initials BS like what are you gonna do?   Kiera Dent (00:37.904) Well, I never want to like sometimes when I call you and I'm like, hey B and I'm like, I hope it lands as like, like love. Yeah. Yeah. It's not meant for any other letters. But Britt and I, if you didn't listen to our other podcasts, Britt and I were chatting shop about how to hide like hire hygienists in today's economy. And with Britt bringing a hygiene perspective, if you don't know, Britt used to be hygienist.   Britt (00:46.83) It's Brett. stands for Brett.   Britt (00:52.748) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (01:07.3) Great. How long has it been since you graduated from a hygiene school? Let's just give people your scene.   Britt (01:10.05) Kiera.   You're gonna age me a little bit here.   Kiera Dent (01:16.162) Okay, don't feel age. The only reason I asked for it, so before you answer, just know my reasoning so you don't have to answer. I was just thinking because I wanted people to know you've been in the field for like enough time to give weight to your answers. But maybe we don't need to do that. Maybe it's been there for longer than five years. Shut, I didn't even know. All right, well, you have been in it for a long time.   Britt (01:31.512) That's fine. Eighteen, Kiera, eighteen.   Britt (01:40.378) I'll say this, was a young graduate from high school, so I'll give you that. That pushed me a year ahead, but 07 is when I graduated, so this year we'll make it 18.   Kiera Dent (01:49.111) No way.   Kiera Dent (01:52.996) Dang girl, I didn't even know. Okay, so Britt really has a lot of weight and you did hygiene for, and then Britt went from hygiene to then office management of a pretty large DSO and then came consulting and now does consulting and operations. So.   Britt (02:06.38) Yeah, I did full-time hygiene for a decade. So I'm like a solid, five full-time, full-time, 40 hours for a decade.   Kiera Dent (02:09.21) Did you really?   Wow. Man, I really like there's some moments that I just see you as a hygienist. Like I can just picture you walking up with your like, it's not a swagger, but you have a can't that you definitely walk. And I can see you walking up, getting your patient. Hey B, how's your swagger? But.   Britt (02:28.11) You can call it swagger, I'll take swagger. don't know what else to   Kiera Dent (02:35.736) Yeah, so I'm like, just, could imagine you being a hygienist sometimes, but then you're like, Britt the consultant, Britt operations, Britt, my yin and yang. So anyway, well, that's fun. That's a fun. Okay. So to give Britt credit, she did hygiene for a decade. I won't say anything about loops, Britt. We will not discuss that on this episode. We will.   Britt (02:56.238) I mean, I just changed myself a little bit. you know, we talk about it. I would have to know if I was a full-time clinical, for sure.   Kiera Dent (03:01.752) Of course. Yeah, of course. I know you would. You don't, you stay very current. I do appreciate that you stay very current with hygiene. You attend hygiene CE all the time. So what we were talking about in the last episode that this would be part two of was we talked about kind of like, do we, how do we work with the compensation pieces of hygiene? And then talking about it from a business standpoint and a doctor standpoint and a hygienist standpoint.   and really bringing those two perspectives to the table, which is what the podcast has been built to do is bring different perspectives. And something I just want to reiterate today, if you missed the last one is that the things Britt and I talk about today are going to be perspectives and never meant to weaponize. So doctors, can't weaponize it against hygienists and hygienists, can't weaponize it against doctors. And so really just setting the stage today of let's have an open conversation around where are we at the dynamics. there's no.   there's no like hiding the fact that it has been hard to hire hygienists since COVID. It's it we thought that it would probably be four years, maybe five years before the hygiene shortage caught up. I still think it's in like massive catch up time, then you tack in inflation on it. So raise like the amount people are coming out asking from school, but I, I mean, I don't really want to ask, but I am going to ask I'm sure hygiene has been like   attempting field to go back into. I'm like, you work at Dental A Team but you've got hygiene over there. And it just keeps like getting bigger and bigger and bigger. I think if I was in your shoes, I might just contemplate it here and there, especially on days when it maybe isn't your favorite day at Dental A Team, which is hopefully like one and every moon. I know what happens. We just had it like a week ago.   Britt (04:31.822) Everybody's got a day there right like it happens but I Mean here's the I I love hygiene and I left it loving it so like that's the thing is I and I'm like I still go back I still double from time to time, but I'm going back full-time I The things that are appealing right hygienist know what do I love? It's like   Pretty predictable, right? Like you got a job, 100 % predictable, but my hours I'm gonna work, I know my schedule. If I can get the doctor to work with me, I can manage running on time. like, and then when I'm done at the end of the day, I go home and I don't have to take it. Like there's nothing for me to do outside of the office other than like learning stuff, but there's nothing to do outside. like, those are the, we know that those are the perks of hygiene.   Kiera Dent (05:02.692) That does fit you so much, Britt. The stability, the...   Britt (05:29.23) and that's part of why I loved it is because of those reasons. Do I debate going back? I don't know. I enjoy what I do now. It's different, right? Like you grow and you morph into different things and it's fun to take the next step. And can I go back to it? Sure. Would it be different? 100%.   Kiera Dent (05:47.888) Hahaha   fair. I was just curious because I mean, like I know I've looked at what I want to go back into management, what I want to go run a regional, what I want to run a DSO. And for me, there was like a lot of fun in it. There's a lot of fun in being in a system. But I think I agree with you. I feel like I have morphed and evolved into things that I really enjoy. Like I really enjoy the creativity aspect. Do I sometimes wish, Britt, like sometimes I do miss the like, go in, just like you know your day.   You don't have to like be thinking and creating nonstop and you leave at the end of the day and like, we're done, we're done versus here. Ideas will continue to, I mean, I saw you last night. You're building a whole spreadsheet, which is fun, but it never shuts off unlike at the dental office. So different, different times. But what we were wanting to chat about is we talked about compensation on the last one. And now it's coming into how can offices kind of like did a really great job of like paying your junior.   Britt (06:33.269) Yeah, yeah.   Kiera Dent (06:46.692) like fresh out of school and it's based on skill set, not based on longevity or tenure. Then we morphed into talking about what do we do for base versus commission if offices can't afford it and different ways to navigate that. And so I wanted to just kind of finish up that conversation with a few other ideas of what's hygiene's take as a landscape of assisted hygiene and shortened appointments. Because as we were discussing on the last episode,   it's kind of coming to this like necessity and survival mode for practices of like, hey, we're like running such a high number up for hygienists. So what this is truly called is innovation and things are changing and shifting and adapting due to the nature of lower reimbursement rates of insurance, inflation has come up, there's a hygiene crunch. So hygienists are coming up as a higher paid profession than what they were even four or five years ago. And so it's kind of like, well, what do we do?   what about assisted hygiene? What about shortened appointments so that way we can have more appointments? And again, I'm not here to advocate for it. I'm just saying like, this is the reality of what doctors are thinking of. And it's the thinking of this. They're also thinking of do I bring a doctor and instead of hiring a hygienist, they're thinking of do I do a hygiene less practice? So I'm just curious, let's talk assisted hygiene first, give me kind of a hygiene perspective on because I don't I don't know how it feels as a hygienist. So you get to speak, I know every hygienist is different, but like just what you hear from colleagues in your perspective.   Britt (07:59.361) Huh.   Britt (08:06.85) heterogeneous is different and I feel like it's a it's one of those polarizing things that I think there's people that love it and either you love it or you're not really a fan of it I feel like so that's like the that's the I don't see a lot of in between or it's like sure I'll do it for a little while while we hire like even I would do it maybe for a little bit while we hire someone but it's it's not my jam I can't say that I love it when it comes to   Kiera Dent (08:31.738) Tell me why, why don't you like it? Like what is it about assisted hygiene just from a hygienist perspective that's almost like a grind for you that you're like, I'll do it for a little bit. Cause I hear that all the time, like I'll do it for little bit. Like what is it from a hygienist perspective that makes that a bit trickier?   Britt (08:46.446) I think the piece that makes it tricky is like you're just, I don't know, probably part of why we get into what we do is like the one-on-one with patients and interacting with them and being able to ensure like from kind of beginning to end, right? The team has an impact, but I'm...   I'm giving them a good experience from beginning to end that doesn't feel rushed, that doesn't feel jumbled. And so I think that's for me personally, and I think some other hygienists, it feels like, great, I'm popping in, I'm in their mouth pretty much the whole time that I'm in there, and then I'm popping out and going on to the next one. I don't think it has to be exactly like that, but I think that's how it can feel from the hygiene side. I think having a really good assistant can make it much more doable. I think how you schedule it, how stack that.   Assisted hygienist can definitely make a difference on how much time you've got to interact. like, do hygienists, we like a little bit of control. I don't know, probably. And so it's just like, I know I've reviewed the things. I think that's probably the difference between hygienist and doctor is I'm not leaving it to an assistant to review medical history or ask the questions or hear what's going on and gathering it. Like I get to do that from beginning to end when I'm.   Kiera Dent (09:41.411) Yeah.   Britt (10:00.332) So it's just a little different when you've got the assisted hygiene in there.   Kiera Dent (10:03.834) So, and I'm also curious, like, I've never really scaled teeth for real. I mean, I kinda, in Utah, as an assistant, I was supposed to be able to profite, and I'm like, I don't even know what I'm supposed to do. There was one time I pretended to scale because my hygienist was late, so I just like, I didn't even actually really touch their teeth. just, you know, like, did a little tap, tap, tap, waiting for this dang hygienist to come, and I was like, yeah, we'll just like get started. I didn't do a darn thing. So I don't actually know what it feels like to scale that much. I'm curious, like, on a body.   Britt (10:18.744) you   Kiera Dent (10:33.622) Does it like hurt your hands? Does it, is it exhausting to just go because you don't really get any break or reprieve? You're just going nonstop. I'm just curious or to like the ultrasonics and things like that now help that make it easier for you. I don't really know the mechanics of that.   Britt (10:48.994) So yeah, scaling time, like absolutely. Does technology help? Yes, I'm a big fan. I will say it. Polish first. Polish first. If you're not polishing first, you're spending a lot of time on stuff that you don't have to be spending time on. And I'm a big fan of ultrasonic or piezo. I will use it on pretty much everyone. Like even my kids because they got a lot of plaque and I can polish and I can get a lot done with that that doesn't sound or feel the same as scaling. And so I'm a big fan of it.   Kiera Dent (11:06.117) Mm-hmm.   Britt (11:18.636) And then so like So there's a lot you can do to help minimize it But that's the piece of doing assisted hygiene usually it's if I've got an assistant if they can polish right they're doing They're doing all the easy stuff and so it is me just doing what's the stuff that I only I can do? Pia's own hand skill, right? And so like it's more of that every day and it does hygienist need dentist hygienist assistance, right? We all need to take care of our bodies because it's   It is a more physically taxing job than people think that it is. And so taking care of yourself, making sure you're doing some stretches. And so, yeah, it is a little bit more physically taxing to do assistive tithing, but it's a lot better than it used to be because we got a lot better tools than we used to have.   Kiera Dent (12:02.607) Right. Okay. So that actually helps. And so I'm curious, like, let's just throw out a scenario. And Britt, this week, I mean, we talked to offices about this in our consulting where, so let's say a hygienist, I'm going to use really easy numbers because I don't want to get wild. Let's say a hygienist is $30 an hour, which some of you are laughing at me. I know that's not even in the realm of your hygienist. I'm very aware of this. I also don't want to throw ranges out there intentionally on the. Exactly. There's also a reason I'm not throwing high ranges out there because I don't want to set standards that are not.   Britt (12:24.366) a bit apathetic.   Kiera Dent (12:31.056) Realistic for your area. I feel like 30 is a safe number for me So if I'm hiring a hygienist at 30 and I bring on another hygienist for 30 That would be $60 an hour that I'm paying of compensation for it Well in this area if my hygienist is 30 odds are I could probably get an assistant for between like 17 to 20 realistically if my hygienist is only at 30 I think that that's like a fair number probably more like 15 in that area, but let's say you're there at 20 just for easy math I've got $30 for hygiene. I've got $20 for an assistant   I actually have $10 of extra, if you're following my math, $10 of extra that's not being paid. Britt, what are your thoughts of if an office takes that $10 and even if they pay a hygienist say 35 an hour during assisted hygiene time versus just 30, does that actually make any difference for a hygienist? I know some can do more. Some it's gonna be like, you're paid 30, now I'm paying you 40 during your assisted hygiene days. Tell me like how that is from an office standpoint.   because there's obviously different compensation amounts we're going to be doing. And from a hygienist standpoint, does that feel better? Does that make it easier? Is that like, sure, I'll take on a couple assisted hygiene days. I'm always pro don't run assisted hygiene every single day. I think that does burn your hygienist out. Usually if I recommend it, it's either for a day or a half a day for a hygienist, but trying to make it, but like, is that necessary, Britt, from your perspective from hygiene?   Britt (13:50.786) mean, yes, some degree of compensation difference 100 % if you're running assisted hygiene. I know on the last episode we talked about a base plus commission. I like that even for assisted hygiene because, if we're doing assisted hygiene, we should be producing more. And so again, I do like that model because it naturally adjusts things and compensates accordingly. So yes, I do think there should be some sort of compensation that's more on those days. And I do like it when it's   Kiera Dent (14:01.775) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (14:11.972) Mm-hmm.   Britt (14:20.494) Base Plus Commission. Now I've got some, I've had one client where it's nice when you have a group of hygienists. I do love an office with a few. And they did, they rotated an assisted hygiene day through all of them. And they were like fighting over who got the assisted hygiene day. Like they wanted it, right? Like, and it's because yeah, they make more on those days and they were compensated based on their production was a part of it. And so they loved having those days to get a little bit more of a boost. And it was almost like   Kiera Dent (14:34.743) They do!   Britt (14:46.862) when we don't need it anymore what's going to happen because they all like getting that little bit of extra income coming from.   Kiera Dent (14:53.368) And so how do you even win over a team to do it? Because I agree, and I actually hear that more than I hear the opposite. I hear more hygienists actually enjoy it more than they thought they would. I hear a lot of them figure it out, especially when that's not my everyday. think if they had to do it every day, it'd be a little bit more taxing. But think about it. You've got four hygienists. We add an extra column of hygiene four days a week. We've literally brought in a whole extra hygienist without bringing a hygienist on. So I think it's a very creative way to do it. But how do I even like?   package this, you know I look at in sales terms, like how do I even like convince a team that this is a great idea to trial it out rather than just the resistance of hygienist saying no, just like you said, no, I want my patient care. I want to own over this. Like I want A to Z. I hear all the time we're going to have the patient care. It's going to be disrupted. And I'm like, well, it can be, or it could actually be more awesome. How do you win a team over to even be open to trying it?   Britt (15:47.084) Yeah, I think it depends on the office scenario, right? Like what's the reason, what's the why that we're doing it? And I'm a big fan of like, hey, let's try it first, right? Like I'm not saying you have to do it forever. I'm not saying you have to do it every day, but like, let's try it and let's figure out a system that feels comfortable and meets our like standard of care that we want to provide. So let's start easy, let's work through it, let's train up an assistant. do think.   Cystid Hygiene needs one of your best assistants to be helping in Cystid Hygiene to make it run smooth and give those patients that great experience. And so let's work through the system and see how it goes. like, yeah, it's going to be compensated. If I've got a hygienist who's a gunner and likes to run and does not like to stop, then that's usually my first one. Then I'm like, great, let's team up. Let's get that figured out and see how it goes first. And then word can kind of spread because usually they'll do really well.   Kiera Dent (16:14.681) I agree.   Kiera Dent (16:34.448) Hmm.   Britt (16:42.062) And so yeah, sometimes it's a personality thing, right? Some will love it, some will struggle a little bit. Sometimes there's people that like are gonna be your ones to help you figure it out. And some are like, well, once I see someone else do it and like, oh, that's not so bad. All right, then I'll go ahead and do it. So I think depending on the reason why, I think trying it first, I agree with you, not an everyday thing. It can even be like start with half a day and see how it goes and just start to figure out to find the rhythm of it.   Because I think when you find the rhythm of it and you're like, yeah, that works really well, then it's like, OK, like we can do more of this. And I think it can run.   Kiera Dent (17:18.276) And I'm really grateful that you shared about the office that you have, that they all want it and they enjoy it because I think that that actually can be the reality of what can happen from it. And I'm really big when you roll it out, agreed. Having not a great assistant really will actually make this harder. So do not go and hire a brand new fresh off the street assistant that does not know what they're doing, can't take great x-rays, can't move through because hygienist having someone that they trust that they can lean on, that they know is going to do a great job.   If they can polish, that's a great way for them to be able to use it. And then really also another big piece are no new patients, no SRP, no perio maintenance put in that. It's really just pro fees because that's gonna make it so much cleaner for them to be able to run this effectively. And you're running it on the half an hour. And then doctors, you have to be very strategic when you go in for exams. And doctors, you cannot be late on assisted hygiene because that will throw your whole hygiene. Like it's a domino and it will be good part.   Britt (18:12.302) That's the quickest way to take your hygienist off when you're asking them to do assisted hygiene. 100%. That's the way. That's the way to do it.   Kiera Dent (18:15.44) And that's not like, we'll be there, we'll be there. It's like, you've got to get up and jump. But that's also with hygienists too, making sure that we're giving our doctors enough time. Like I try to ask hygienists to give a 30 minute window of exam time where a doctor could come in. So that way doctors can find the end time of prep, come and get their exams done and keep everybody on schedule. So hygienists plug there, try really hard because I know there's some hygienists who love to alert right at the end of the appointment. And then they're fresh when doctor doesn't come in.   Well, like let's notify when they could come in. Like let's take our x-rays the first 15 minutes and then try to get doctors out at that. I try to have them out. Please do.   Britt (18:51.934) I'll one-up you a little bit on that as soon as diagnostics are done. As soon as my diagnostics are done and they've got x-rays, they've got period charting photos, I'm letting them know. Come at any time. I'm happy to have you. And of course, there's a bunch of plaque that's gonna make it more difficult once I've got that done, but I'm gonna notify them. at any time.   Kiera Dent (19:04.856) Yes.   Kiera Dent (19:12.536) And then doctors, I try to have you out at the quarter to the hour, meaning like you're not walking into the exam, you're walking out of the exam. So that allows hygienists to polish floss, wrap up, get everything done, get the patient out, flip the room and get their next patient back on time. So I think that that's something that before I maybe rolled out assisted hygiene doctors, I might take that on with the hygiene team. Like let's get really good on our exams. Let's calibrate those exams up so they can be more efficient. Let's do the, I have a better.   I haven't told you my new acronym. It's not iCrap. So if you've been listening to me, I have a new one. It's called iCreep. So it's iCreep when you come in that's introduction, compliment, recap, and then a personal note. And if hygienist can get really good at that handoff when doctors come in or assistance, and then doctors are really good on their NDTR, so wrapping up your treatment plans, that's gonna really help that synergy. And then also maybe doing what would doctor do to diagnose and to help tee up treatment. I think that that can just...   Again, we're all working together to make those exams as efficient as possible while also giving the best patient care. But I creep, that's my new one. It's not I, Sierra. It is, I creep. Someone was like, creep, and I was like, amazing. I wish it could be CPR. I've been working to figure out different letter and words. So to be determined, but okay, let's like, go ahead.   Britt (20:16.11) It's a step better. It's a step better than the last one.   Britt (20:28.014) Real quick, one more thing on the exams, because with a really good assistant on exams, the other thing I think about, and that for me as a hygienist I care about as well, is making sure treatment is teed up really well.   Kiera Dent (20:40.675) of greed.   Britt (20:41.59) Patients aren't having to repeat themselves and get frustrated and then not wanting to get treatment done just because they feel like they're not being listened to. So that communication piece and having an assistant who's really strong who can relay that information to doctor if they're the ones that are going to be in there for the exam and make sure that it's teed up really well for the doctor and they can speak to it is huge because that's, I don't want to, you know, rob Peter to pay Paul, right? I don't want to.   have not so great exams and not close as much treatment by adding an assisted hygiene, I'd rather leave it and get really good exams and really good case acceptance. Overall as a business, that's gonna help me a little bit more. So just making sure that again, that assistance key, really quality exams for your patients, even though you're working assisted hygiene, make sure that experience is stellar and 100 % can be done. It just takes a really good team to work together with a hygienist and assistant.   Kiera Dent (21:35.0) Yeah, that's a great point because you can have forms where the hygienist can document it in there because people are in opposite rooms. But getting a good role and a good synergy is going to make this so much better for setting this up for success. And I think the answer is I actually don't think hygienists hate assisted hygiene as much. think it's there's quite a few little like tick boxes that if you can check them off, have a good assistant have good exams.   have doctors in and out on time, have the assistant really, really solid with being able to tee up the treatment and close the cases, have someone that has a similar vibe to the hygiene team that cares about these patients a ton. I think if you can check those boxes, and then you also compensate higher. There's so many little pieces that everybody's super excited about to do it, but I think if you're missing any of those six, it does not feel as good to try. okay.   Britt (22:14.701) Mm-hmm.   Britt (22:24.022) Yeah, and patients are used to working with two people, right? So that's even, it's like, yeah, it's one more person in the mix, but on the doctor's side, there's two of you. So having an assistant with hygiene, isn't that big of a deal? Seeing the same two faces every time, like they'll be fine with it. Cause I know that can be a concern. I'm like, they're used to having two people on the doctor's side.   Kiera Dent (22:41.104) I see the same. I'm like, just because we're not used to it doesn't mean it's odd for the patient. I tell doctors when you're onboarding an associate, I'm like, you can assist each other. And I know that feels weird to you, to the patient, they're used to someone else in there. To hygienist, they're used to people switching rooms. it's not something, if we're not weird about it, your patient won't be weird about it. But I think we feel very awkward because we feel uncomfortable. But just not projecting that onto your patient. Cause I don't think it's as much as you might think it is. So, okay,   Britt (23:10.316) And ender fun for assisted hygiene, I always have someone to pair your chart for me. So I'll take that as a win.   Kiera Dent (23:15.28) True, that is a big win. mean, truth, you're not having to call for it. Okay, the hot topic of shorter appointment times. I'm talking, I've heard 50 minute appointments, 45 minute appointments. Is this doable, Britt? And I think I'm gonna know your answer, I also, like come from both, come from hygiene, Britt, and operations, Britt. Bring both of those Brits to the table and you answer. I'm curious.   Britt (23:40.11) And I'll say this, I have worked in offices with all of the above, right? So I've done all of the above.   Kiera Dent (23:44.42) came. Her bigade you guys have idea. Good thing we plugged that at the beginning.   Britt (23:49.038) So all are doable. I think there's a couple of things that make a difference when it comes to shortening appointments, depending on what type of experience you want them to have, right? That's an important part to consider for doctors. Depending on our pay or mix, what we need to do in order to the business running, that's something to consider. And then also how efficient we are.   Kiera Dent (24:11.376) true.   Britt (24:17.07) as a team and like doctor doing exams, right? That's an important piece of it. And then another one is our patient base slash how good are we at keeping them healthy and not giving ourselves a lot of work every single time our patients come in. If you know what I'm saying, those bloody profusers, they're a lot of work. So if I'm treating period appropriately, I'm educating my patients, they're coming in regularly.   Kiera Dent (24:30.85) you   Kiera Dent (24:36.089) I do.   Britt (24:42.734) We all know those are patients that are a lot easier to see and more efficient most of the time. And yeah, there's gonna be even working on shorter appointment times, there's gonna be some. Like you know that person that's like an advanced period patient and I'm like, I cannot in my right moral standing do that in 45 minutes, it's gonna be an hour. There's gotta be some of that liberty where needed.   Kiera Dent (25:03.888) Yeah, I agree. So I think the hard thing of switching appointment times is I do think it becomes an all model because for me to shift it, it feels like a daunting project to shift from 60 minutes to 45 minutes. Now I'm moving everything up. My exam times don't hit at the same time anymore. Things just are moving all around. that's a huge jump.   Britt (25:18.99) Mm-hmm.   Britt (25:29.804) And 60 to 45 is a big jump. I wouldn't go that far if we're going to play around with times. Maybe you could go from 60 to 50. Most offices are running on 10 minute increments. So you can make that shift. And it's just you've got to be really on point to run that efficiently, because the quality's still got to be there. It's just we've got to be able to run really efficiently.   Kiera Dent (25:45.208) I agree.   Britt (25:57.944) And I'll add this, and depending on what I was expected within that appointment as well, right? If we want the hygienist to be super comprehensive, we want them to get scans done, we want them to collect a lot of information for us, like, I map it out, right? That takes me two minutes, that takes me three minutes. Like, what's reasonable in an appointment for us to get done by the minute mapped out and then make your decision?   Kiera Dent (26:11.002) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (26:19.652) I think that that's a wise and don't go for your fastest hygienist and don't go for your slowest hygienist. Let's find that middle ground of what's reasonable between the two because you do have some. mean, Britt and I, can even hear in our, the way we talk, we've got different tempos. mean, but you can guess who's a little bit faster and who's a little bit slower between me and Britt. And sometimes it's really good. Like Britt slowing me down and me speeding her up. And I think Britt and I would both agree that a happy medium between the two of us is the right spot to be, which is usually where we end just in   Britt (26:33.752) huh.   Britt (26:41.87) Mm-hmm.   Britt (26:48.814) Yeah. And a team working together really well, right? Especially when I was working on 45 and 50 minutes. I mean, we had a fantastic clinical coordinator, right? So if my next patient was here and there was a room to be had even for a few minutes to get x-rays done, and someone was available, they were getting those x-rays done and getting it started. So it's a different tempo and pace you run on. And it does take full team support. It's not going to be like, oh, well, they're early. Oh, they're here. We have space to see them.   Kiera Dent (26:49.561) in decisions.   Britt (27:18.058) start getting them taken care of so that it helps your team members out and we get them out as efficiently as possible.   Kiera Dent (27:24.464) So that's a good point because then it becomes, it's not just the hygienist. Cause I think 60 minutes is kind of like hygiene does their own thing. We want them to do everything on shorter appointment times. We are trying to get more, more bodies in and out. But I did the math and it's like, if I'm going from 60 to 50, I'm getting 10 extra minutes per appointment. That's going to give me 80 minutes in a day, but that's not enough for me to get two extra appointments unless I do a 50 minute plus an additional like 30 minute. And so I would ask the question, Britt, and I don't know if   Britt (27:32.897) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (27:53.36) you run the numbers or not on it. I mean, I haven't, so that's why I'm asking. But if I've got a hygiene team that does take ortho scans for us when we do ortho, I've got a hygiene team who's taking CBCTs for implants and we're teeing it up for all on X cases. If they're looking for sleep and we're doing snore tests on them, does it really make sense to get me one more hygiene patient for hygiene? Or does it make sense to look to optimize the additional services? Now I get like, we might be trying to get   because I'm like, well, what's the reason we're doing it? If we're trying to shorten the appointment times because we have too many patients, maybe it's worth looking at our fees. But if we're trying to get more patients in to optimize our hygienist pay, to be able to pay them and compensate for the amount of production they're doing. And I know a lot of offices don't pay hygienists for those scans. Like if you do a night guard scan or you do an ortho scan, it goes to the doctor, which I understand because the doctor is going to need to do a lot. But I'm just curious, like to me, it makes a little bit more sense, possibly.   If my hygienist have 60 minutes, I'm already there, why don't I try to optimize and maximize that appointment, paying them maybe a little bit of these scans that I want to be done so that way they can hit their production number, but it benefits the office on a bigger scale. What are your thoughts on that, Britt?   Britt (29:05.61) where I think it comes back to what type of experience, what type of office, what's your vision. It comes back to ultimately write any business. It comes back to the volume value question. By cutting time, we're choosing volume. By using that time better, we're choosing value.   Kiera Dent (29:20.208) Mm-hmm.   Britt (29:26.318) It's going to be a personal preference. I'm not going to say there's a right or wrong answer in that because there's a lot of factors depending on kind of what your payer mix is like. I definitely have some areas that even for me, I tried to move that culture of the area, if I tried to move that patient at the speed that I need for a 45 minute appointment, they are not going to love it. Even though I might be the most pleasant human being they've ever interacted with because the pace that they run is a little bit slower, right? And so...   Kiera Dent (29:50.916) Yeah.   Britt (29:56.334) right when I was running 45 minutes, we were right outside of DC. Those people don't want to be there that long. Right. And they were, you know, demographic was easy for us to run them through. And so they didn't mind the fast pace and we still connected, but we were able to run like that. So I think it comes back to overall experience on what you want to have. and there's no right or wrong, but I love making more use of the time we have, which is where I think hygienist functioning to the   the height of their capability, right? If you can use laser and that's something your office wants to bring in, great. That's something that can be an adjunct service that adds to the production. You know, what can you do for the patient? I think not only on the hygiene side, but that's where I think it really is a team to where what can I do in scans, in pictures, in educating patients about treatment options, talking to them about what do they really value? What do they really want? Are there cosmetic things that they're looking for?   Kiera Dent (30:29.232) Mm-hmm.   Britt (30:53.24) There's a lot you can do and I think that's for hygienists to realize if we do well overall, right, everybody wins. So when we're able to get where we need to production collection wise as an office overall, it makes it easier for us to say, yeah, that time is useful. We're making good use of it on the hygiene side. Let's keep our appointments at 60 minutes. Or if it's like, hey, we're not, we either need to do that and get things up or.   we're going to have to evaluate and make some decisions because sometimes there's just business decisions that need to be made and we need to figure out how to adapt and innovate.   Kiera Dent (31:28.324) Yeah, right. That was such an insightful piece. And as you were talking, I just thought, I hope offices are listening because I think that this is just a really good, like, this is where we, have to get into the, are we doing this? What are additional pieces rather than just the like quick surface level decision? Because I think there's so many pieces below it. Like you said, demographics, DC, 45 minutes makes a ton of sense. Those people are faster in and out. They're younger population. Like it's an easier model to roll that.   Britt (31:56.268) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (31:56.396) versus maybe let's say some areas in Arizona, like you might not have a same, you might have it like in Scottsdale Tempe, but if we're going a little further out to maybe some of those senior centers, that's not an ideal model for maybe an older population base. So really like you said, and I think like volume versus value, and I don't think it's the value that we're bringing to the patient. It's the value of are we doing ortho? Are we adding these adjunct services to it? You obviously add value to your patients, but are we doing a lot of people?   or are we doing less people but more extensive? That's gonna be a clinical or a business decision and also a clinical decision and also a cultural decision of what you ultimately want your practice to be. But I get it, you gotta make these decisions, you gotta make the business run. I would just caution, don't make the quick decision because I think there's multi-layers below each of them to really consider. So hygiene Britt, thanks for coming today. Any last thoughts you've got as we wrap up? Assisted hygiene, shorter appointments, I think they are really good perspectives to bring.   Britt (32:55.822) I think my last thing I like that you said, right, don't make the quick decision, evaluate it. And I think even hygienist, right, it's easy for us as team members, I do the same thing, right? I can see my world and what it's gonna impact for me, but I understand there's more behind it than just my view. And so really taking a good look overall and seeing what's gonna be the best decision. And yeah, how we're functioning now might make us think that we need to make this decision, but maybe we can keep running and function a little different to where we don't have to make that change.   Kiera Dent (33:25.52) I think it's a really good perspective. if you guys are in this debacle, we're speaking to your souls. This is what we love to do with our practices is really weigh the pros and cons and help the office make the best decision for their practice, not just a decision and really thinking through the, all the different pieces and then executing and getting your whole team on board, helping the team see the pieces so you can really be successful. So reach out if we can help. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com thanks for being with me today. I appreciate it.   Britt (33:53.196) Yeah, thanks for having me.   Kiera Dent (33:54.648) Of course, and for all of you listening, thanks for listening. And we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.    

Once again, we are blessed by the practical counsel of the fathers in regard to the struggle with the passion of lust and fornication. What becomes evident is that the struggle is primarily with the thoughts and how we address them in our lives. The origin of such thoughts may be from ourselves and our own memories, what we experience with our senses in the present moment or from demonic provocation. Whatever their origin, our asceticism must be such that we are willing to lay all such thoughts aside in preference for remaining in stillness with our focus set upon Christ.  It is always best not to engage the thoughts that rush upon us understanding that we will be overwhelmed, especially if their origin is from the demons. We are not to argue or wrestle with the thoughts but rather call upon the holy name of our Lord and to plead for his help and strength.  This is the source of our healing, even in ways that we do not comprehend. The more we call upon the Lord, the deeper the healing becomes and the more free we become from our attachment to the things of this world. The Jesus Prayer in particular can be used as a gentle weapon to cut away the thoughts as they come upon us. When we are able, it is beneficial to say the prayer in an audible fashion making use of multiple senses. Having a chotki in hand as we say the Prayer and making prostrations repeatedly involves the whole self in the spiritual battle. When we humble ourselves in mind and body before God, He rushes to our aid.  Thus, humility, vigilance and constancy of prayer must be the foundation of our ascetic practice. Furthermore, we must be simple and not count ourselves as clever in this battle. The wiles of the evil one can turn even our conversations about piety into instruments that agitate and stir up the heart. Let us examine our hearts well as we approach the Great Fast and ask the Lord to be our strength. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:11:46 Niño: Have a nice day everybody

With Drake officially securing a comeback, releasing his $$$ R&B album, the feels are back in full swing. It is nostalgic and right on time. Your boy, the top tier local internet disc jockey, is in complete absolute shambles hahaha wicked hot. You wouldn't believe the conversation I had with a lovely young lady yesterday, a fantastic gifted young lady that I will in fact, never see again in my lifetime. Hahaha super sick. Whatever Papi it's all gravy. Just means more time for me to pile up in here and bing bong these records together for my tremendous listening audience on the inter webs. Thank you, as always, for being here. I'm going to sweep myself into a dust pan now. Happy Valentines everybody, til next time..Your Host With The Most,Shambles McGoo 

Happy Halloween Creek Talkers!!

The intense battle between Yamcha and Tien continues!!! Best fight we've had in a while. Support us at patreon.com/bospod

Should you take up journaling, and if you do, will it help you with your time management and productivity? That's what we're exploring this week.  You can subscribe to this podcast on: Podbean | Apple Podcasts | Stitcher | Spotify | TUNEIN Links: Email Me | Twitter | Facebook | Website | Linkedin Get Your Copy Of Your Time, Your Way: Time Well Managed, Life Well Lived Subscribe to my Substack  Take The NEW COD Course The Working With… Weekly Newsletter Carl Pullein Learning Centre Carl's YouTube Channel Carl Pullein Coaching Programmes The Working With… Podcast Previous episodes page Script | 355 Hello, and welcome to episode 355 of the Your Time, Your Way Podcast. A podcast to answer all your questions about productivity, time management, self-development and goal planning. My name is Carl Pullein, and I am your host of this show. This year is the 10th anniversary since I took up consistent journaling. And it's been one of the best things I've ever taken up.  Not only is it one of the most therapeutic things you can do, it's also one of the best ways to organise your thoughts, work your way through problems and vent your anger towards those who really wind you up.  Over the years, I've also found that journaling has helped me to achieve my goals because each day I am writing about how I am doing and if I find myself making excusing, the act of writing out my excuses exposes them for what they really are—excuses.  So, this week, I've chosen a question related to journaling and I hope it will inspire you to invest in a quality notebook and pen and start doing it yourself. And if I can inspire just one of you to take it up and become a Samuel Pepys, I'll be very happy.  So, to kick ups off, let me hand you over to the Mystery Podcast Voice for this week's question.  This week's question comes from Tom. Tom asks, hi Carl, I've heard you talk about your journaling habit numerous times. Do you think writing a journal has helped or hindered your productivity?  Hi Tom, thank you for your question.  To answer your question directly, I can say with certainty that journaling has contributed to my overall productivity.  To explain further, I write in my journal every morning, no matter where I am. And one of the things I always write down is my two objective tasks for the day. Those objectives are the two non-negotiable tasks for the day and by writing them down at the top of my journal entry, I have a way of ensuring I did them when I write my journal the next day,  But more powerfully, writing them down each morning focuses my mind on what needs to be done and how and when I will do them.  Those tasks are also in my task manager, but it's the act of writing them out by hand that gives me the focus.  Writing a journal is much more than being an aid to productivity. It's also a form of therapy.  Like most people, I feel frustrated, overwhelmed and stressed at times. Those feelings need an outlet. A negative way to do that is to get angry, shout, and scream. Sure, that blows off steam, but it also transfers your negative feelings to others—your colleagues and family. Not great.  Instead, if you have a way to write about these things, you start to find ways to solve whatever the underlying issues are. Writing slows down your thinking, and if you were to step back and analyse why you sometimes feel stressed, frustrated and overwhelmed, it is because you feel—incorrectly—everything has to be done right now.  That slowing down helps to bring back some perspective and you can decide when you will do something and what can be left until another day.  When it comes to achieving your goals, a journal is perhaps the best way to track progress. It can also help you establish new, positive habits. When I developed my morning routines around eight years ago, I chose to track them in my journal. I always draw a margin on left of the page, and I list out the six items I do as part of my morning routine: make coffee, wash face and teeth, drink lemon water, write my journal, clear my email inbox and do my shoulder stretches.  I write them down at the top of my journal entry for the day in the margin. And, for the dopamine hit, I check them off too.  I exercise in the late afternoon and, again, I will write out what I did in the margin of my journal.  Now, I could spend a lot of money on habit-tracking apps, but with my journal, I've found no need. I have my record and can review it at any time.  Over the years, I've been asked what I write about and if I use any prompts. The answer is no. Well, apart from writing out my objectives for the day.  Now, prompts can be helpful when you first start—you can think about them as those little stabilisers we put on kids' bikes to help them learn to ride. Sooner or later you want to take them off so you can experience the freedom of riding freely.  I write whatever's on my mind that morning. If everything's going great I write about that. If things are not so great I write about it and why I think things are not going as well as I want them to. I often find as I am writing about an issue, a solution begins to form in my mind and I will continue writing.  If a task comes from that solution, I can put that in its appropriate place later.  As a general rule, I will write for around fifteen minutes. However, if I don't have much to write about, I will give it ten minutes. The weather's a good subject to write about when you have little to write.  If there's a lot on my mind, I'll keep going until I've emptied my thoughts. That's very rarely more than thirty minutes, though. Over the years, I've tried both analogue journaling—with pen and paper and digital journaling using an app called Day One.  On balance, I've found that pen and paper journaling works best.  I spend most of my working time in front of a screen. I type a lot. So, opening up a nice notebook and picking up a fountain pen is a lovely break from the constant screen time. It also feels a lot less rushed and more relaxing.  One thing I noticed when I was writing my journal in Day One—a popular digital journal—was I never went back to my old entries. I read enough typed documents on screen all day. I have no desire to read through more, even if it's my journal.  I keep my old paper journals on my bookshelf and often skim through pages when waiting for a call to start. It's incredibly nostalgic and leaves you realising you have accomplished a lot.  I was recently asked if I am worried about people reading my journals. Hahaha, that's the point.  One of the inspirations for me to start writing a journal was how the journals of people like Samuel Pepys, Charles Darwin and Isaac Newton are still around.  These journals were written hundreds of years ago and, in the case of Samuel Pepys, are a snapshot of how we lived in the 17th Century.  Pepys was very open about what he did. Some good things and a lot of bad things. But does he care we are reading them today? Of course not. He's been dead for 320 years.  I have the same attitude. I've nothing to hide from my wife, and the journals are kept in my study—home office. If I lost my journal when travelling, so be it. There's nothing scandalous in there—well, not yet anyway hahaha. There are a few tips I would share with you if you are thinking about journaling. Start on paper. Buy yourself a nice notebook. You'll find bound notebooks with a hard cover are best. Choose A5 or B5 size. You'll find an A4 notebook a little daunting at first.  Hardback notebooks will last a long time, and the hardcover will protect the pages better than a soft cover.  I would also suggest investing in a fountain pen. You can pick up a refillable one for less than $20 these days. Lamy Safaris are excellent pens, and so are the Pilot Metropolitans and Platinum Preppys.  If you invest in a fountain pen, ensure the paper you buy is fountain pen-friendly. Rhodia Web-books and Clairefontaine notebooks are good choices, as are many Japanese notebooks such as Midori's MD notebooks.  When you start journaling, think of it as if you were meeting a stranger for the first time. You will naturally be a little reserved at first. You might only write about the weather and perhaps what you did yesterday.  As long as you remain consistent with it, you will soon open up. You'll start writing a few thoughts and feelings after a few weeks. Let it roll and don't hold back.  I would also recommend writing in the morning. You will likely be much more consistent that way. Evening times can be difficult because you will sometimes be tired. You may even have had a few too many G'nTs, and you won't write.  Tie writing your journal to your morning routines. You don't have to write for long. Give yourself ten minutes.  And if you want to be more focused, after writing the date at the top, write out your two must-do tasks for the day. That way, you have a method to hold yourself accountable. If, for whatever reason, you didn't do your must-do tasks, dedicate a sentence or two to writing about why you didn't do them.  This helps you because over time you may see a pattern developing. You might discover that afternoons are terrible for doing your focused work because your boss always wants to have meetings then. You can then use that information to change your structure.  If you draw a margin on the page, you can use the margin to track other data such as a food log, exercise and even your energy levels. I track my weight there. Each Wednesday, I weigh myself and write my weight in the margin (in a different coloured ink).  And there you go, Tom. Yes, journaling has helped me to be more productive. It slows me down and gets me to think better, leading to better focus on the day ahead. It also gives me a place to consider new ideas and play around with possible solutions.  I hope this episode has inspired some of you to start journaling. It's a fantastic way to bring perspective on chaotic days and weeks. It also slows you down—always a good thing in a fast-paced world, and gives you a place to express your thoughts.  And who knows, you may be the next Samuel Pepys or Leonardo Da Vinci in three-hundred years or so.  Thank you, Tom, for your question, and thank you to you, too, for listening. It just remains for me now to wish you a very, very productive week.   

Joe Biden said goodbye. He wanted to mirror Eisenhower, who once warned of the Military Industrial Complex, but Biden saw something equally alarming—the Big Tech oligarchy. He sees Zuckerberg and Bezos attending Trump's inaugural. He greatly fears the power of Elon Musk. He realizes that his side lost control of it and now, he wants all of us to be afraid.Well, I'm sorry, Joe. I can't play that game anymore. It's time to say goodbye. Farewell, Joe Biden, farewell, Democrats. Farewell, hysteria. Farewell to mandated preferred pronouns in everyone's bio. Farewell to being forced to lie about whether or not masks work. Farewell to not being allowed to give people the benefit of the doubt. Farewell to being too afraid to ask questions about an experimental vaccine. Farewell to Critical Race and gender theory in elementary schools.Farewell to the ruling oligarchy — yes, Joe. You were the frontman for it. You can't fool me. I was part of it, too. It was like a daisy chain of paper dolls—Hollywood, all major corporate and cultural institutions, Big Pharma, and all of the ads they pumped into the veins of Americans that showcased the American utopia in all of its splendor. Just take this pill, and you, too, can be with us, in the happy place. Farewell to a government censoring speech via social media. Farewell to the absence of masculinity. Farewell to worrying about every word that comes out of our mouths, what we drive, what we wear on Halloween, what we buy, what we eat, what we watch, what we desire.Farewell to being made to hate ourselves and everything we know to be true but can't say out loud. Farewell to being the oppressors or the oppressed defined only by the color of our skin. Farewell to hating our history, hating our country, hating our heroes. Farewell to virtue signaling our goodness. Farewell to always being told that it's better to keep your head down and say nothing about any of it.Farewell to never being able to take a joke. Farewell to seeing problematic content in every movie and farewell to the warning labels now affixed to all of them. Farewell to seeing all men as predators and all women as victims. Farewell to a country ruled by fear because our leaders can't see it any other way. Farewell to a president who called half the country “ultra fascists,” “ultra MAGA,” and “extreme MAGA Republicans.” Farewell to a government that believes its biggest threat comes from the people of the United States.Farewell to life inside the doomsday cult, where every single day is the end of the world. Farewell to every word taken literally and seen as another chapter of Mein Kampf. Farewell to repression and sanctimony. Farewell to the long, dark winter. Farewell to lawn signs. Farewell to pretending Kamala Harris wasn't a terrible candidate installed by the deep state. Farewell to ever having to worry about speaking the truth. Farewell to the unshakable hopelessness, the unending sadness, the mourning of the long-forgotten Old Left. It's never coming back. Everything has to be rebuilt. Welcome to the beginning of the rest of your life. At least now, you can have a life. Bringing it all Back HomeWatching the confirmation hearings was bringing it all back. Adam Schiff was still out of his mind, braying like he's Cotton Mather in the Oyer in Terminer in Salem, demanding Pam Bondi say Joe Biden “won the election.” Why did it matter so much to him? Are there really that many Americans out there who need to hear those words said out loud?The nominees' worth depended on whether or not they would stand up to the tyrant fascist racist rapist dictator that they impeached twice, indicted four times convicted on a bogus felony charge, all of which eventually landed in the fevered dreams of a washed-up surfer hippie from Hawaii who got himself a gun and tried to kill the president to SAVE DEMOCRACY. And they still lost. They lost the Electoral College and they lost the popular vote. I never get tired of saying that. Talk about owning the libs. What can we do except quote Marlon Brando in A Streetcar Named Desire. HA. HA HA HA.That's how much America hates them. After all, how hard could it possibly be to beat Hitler? The problem with utopias is that they can't last. They either must become more authoritarian and thus, less utopian, or they collapse. By the end of our utopia, anyone we knew could be one of those things. A bad person. A sexist. A racist. A homophobe. A bigot. A transphobe. Toxic masculinity. White feminism. Everyone was either an abuser or a victim. The weaker we were, the more we were celebrated. We'd snuffed out all independent thought. We were under constant surveillance by the government, advertisers, AI, algorithms, and each other. We began to wonder what real life even was anymore. It was like Winston and Julia in 1984 trying to carve out some love and lust from the dystopia under Big Brother's ever-watchful gaze, with children spies at the ready to tattle—and cancel—those who broke the rules. So if you say Joe Biden won the 2020 election, like you say 2+2=5, then democracy might have a chance. But if you dare think for yourself and start looking behind closed doors and see things you aren't supposed to see, well, now you threaten democracy.When I pushed open the door of the doomsday bunker and escaped, I knew there was no going back. I also knew I couldn't save anyone, much less the once-great culture I used to love. There is no saving whatever it was we used to call the Left. There is only saving America from what it had become so that all of us at least have a fighting chance.No, it won't be perfect. Yes, it might be chaos — entertaining chaos — but chaos all the same. We'll have to learn how to tolerate each other again, live together somehow, and learn this new way of life suddenly foisted upon us with the internet. Now, we know what it looks like to shut ourselves off from people and ideas we cannot control.If the Democrats on Blue Sky and in the Senate Confirmation hearings are any indication, nothing much has changed on the inside. They're still transfixed by the one guy they couldn't cancel, the one guy they couldn't destroy. 1984 Part TwoAnd maybe now we're about to find out what happens in the sequel. Does Big Brother find a way to regain power by destroying Elon Musk to retake X and make it Twitter again? Do those of us exiled and canceled remain on the outside? Does the New York Times beg Bari Weiss to come back, or The Atlantic to throw themselves at the feet of Walter Kirn, or Rolling Stone magazine, the crap rag it has become, offer Matt Taibbi millions to write for them again?Can those on the inside who have speciated with a whole new language and belief system learn to live with the unwashed masses again? Can they tolerate offensive speech? Can it all be one big, happy, dysfunctional family?On the inside, the news that Carrie Underwood and the Village People were playing at the inaugural birthed a fresh new crop of mass hysteria and rage. So I'm guessing Saturday Night Live won't have Trump back any time soon. The Oscars won't ask him to attend, and those who still believe they control this country will hold onto their collapsing empire until ashes, ashes, it all falls down.I don't know. But it doesn't matter. Because today we say farewell. And oh, how sweet it is. // This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit sashastone.substack.com/subscribe

Wake Up with Miya: Cultivating an Abundance Mindset for 2025 (Part 1 of 3) kicks off my annual 3-part abundance series! Every year since starting this podcast, I've launched this series to help reset our mindset and prepare for prosperity. In this episode, I reflect on last year, share exciting news about the rebrand to Wake Up with Miya, and guide you through actionable steps to cultivate an abundance mindset. Learn how to reframe challenges, practice daily gratitude, set intentions, and use simple rituals to attract success in all areas of life. Tune in and let's start 2025 with abundance!Hahaha... this is one of the first videos i did about manifesting... Check it out, but if you go to apple you can actually hear the my first 20 or so podcast all about this. Anyway check this out... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7M0Ao1I1lk Here is another episode worth listening to: https://open.spotify.com/episode/26kPsWz6HIHpganZ5uxLjA?si=9f3TGGyVS-mGq4gtqSi4Ww #AbundanceMindset #ManifestingSuccess #gratitude

“Humans want to move, and life gets in the way.” Those are the words of Laura, Kiera's personal trainer, who's the guest for this episode. Together, Kiera and Laura discuss overcoming the often quite sedentary life of dentistry professionals by bringing on a source of accountability. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Join Dental A-Team Consulting Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00.9) Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera. And today I am so freaking pumped to introduce you to one of my dearest friends, someone who has transformed my life and that I just cannot wait to introduce to this audience. Welcome to the show, Laura, my personal trainer, macro guru, the one who knows all the things, who's helped me through so many personal injuries and actually has been able to like make a busy life, work with working out. Laura, welcome to the show today.   Laura (00:04.089) And so, we're going to end it here.   Laura (00:27.021) Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.   Kiera Dent (00:29.614) I'm so happy you're here because I think that you have changed my life and you and I were chatting at the gym the other day and we actually talked about, well, I work with dentists, dentists are very busy, entrepreneurs are very busy, office managers are very busy and yet figuring out how to fit in this working out, eating healthy, taking care of ourselves. And you made a comment, you said, Kiera, they invest in their businesses, but their businesses require them to be their highest self like.   Let's do a podcast and talk about that. So I'm super jazzed to have you here today. Talk about all things. And as a fun side note, I did look up some data and believe it or not, if you work out, you make more money. So let's just add a little plug there too. But Laura, like let's kind of tell our listeners a little bit about you. How did you get into working out? How did you get into being this macro fitness guru that you've become that's changed the lives of so many? Kind of just walk us on your journey today.   Laura (01:00.461) Yes.   Laura (01:09.049) There we go.   Laura (01:21.921) Yeah, I would love to. My journey started in college. I, like many other women, grew up insecure, like judging myself, comparing myself to other women. And I just came to a point in college, I remember the moment where I just realized   I don't want to live my life this way anymore. I want to feel confident. I want to feel strong. I felt disconnected to my younger self in a way. I grew up not necessarily in high school, more like actual elementary school. In my childhood years, I was very active. I did sports, I did gymnastics. And then you get into high school. I didn't do anything in high school. And then comes college and I just felt very disconnected to myself.   And I wanted to get back to that playful, confident, able person, able to do the things I wanted to do. And so I started going to the gym, had no idea what I was doing. I would just climb the StairMaster the whole time. And slowly, the gym I was working out at was kind of the StairMasters where   upstairs and you could look down into the rest of the gym. And I would just see at that time, this was like a decade ago or more, there were no women in the gym and all the girls were upstairs on the ellipticals and the stair masters and then all the dudes were downstairs. And I don't know, I just, started to see what they were doing and copied a little bit, you know, did a couple of the machines that I knew how to do, started to get hooked.   and was like, you know what, what if I made this a career? And I got certified in 2014 and the rest is history. mean, there's actually a lot more to it, but that's basically how it started. And fast forward to now, I feel extremely connected to my younger self through my movement. I have created a beautiful life that I'm able to do what I love and...   Kiera Dent (03:13.978) you   Laura (03:29.613) And yeah, help other women connect to their own bodies and their younger selves as well.   Kiera Dent (03:33.914) I love it. And I love that you went through this journey because I think so many of us, well, I'll speak for myself. I'm not gonna speak for all the listeners. I feel like an idiot at the gym. They have reels about people at the gym of like idiots using like equipment so many times and we're at the gym. Laura was originally virtual. We started out virtual and I actually wanna get into like virtual versus in-person training and if there's a difference because when people are busy, there's solutions that way.   Laura (03:43.629) Thank   Kiera Dent (04:01.028) but I felt like such an idiot. And I think something that you've done for me, and that's why I wanted to bring you on here is because I feel like I was the worst workout person in the world. Like honestly, I feel like Laura should have fired me as a client. So we had a really rough start and I think it was honestly fear of my, like where I was at, fear of not knowing what I'm doing. Also, I do run a busy life. Laura, you told me I'm the second busiest person that you know, second to a lawyer. So I felt like that was like, all right, my life is a little bit more exciting.   but I also had a lot of injuries. And so that was why I hired a personal trainer is because I was actually losing so much muscle mass that I was starting to get more injuries because the current injuries were causing me not to do anything, which then was leading to more problems. And so was thinking about how many dentists and how many team members do we sit there all day long? We're very sedentary. I remember as an assistant and doctors, you're like, I don't sit, I don't even have time to pee, which I get, hear you.   but we're sitting there and yes, you're ergonomically correct, but it's like we work all day long. Where do we actually put in time for this body that's serving us? That's creating like the experience for our patients. Like where do we do that? And so even in the time Laura and I have worked together, I changed it from working out to honoring my body. And so Laura, I really wanted to dig into this of like, you've worked with a lot of people, you're a personal trainer, you're freaking genius at it. I love that you have modified so many workouts for me to be able to lift, to get strong.   Like just yesterday we were working out and we saw back muscles on me and like, that's something I haven't had for seven years. And so I'm excited because coming from a space where I couldn't lift, couldn't squat. couldn't lunge. Like literally none of those things were in my life. I have a very strong issue with food. I grew up anorexic most of my life and Laura, I know that you've been on a journey with that as well. And I think just all these different factors. I'm busy. People are busy. You were able to find like this, like.   little crack of sunshine in my life and then expand it more to where in my week I look out like look forward to working out. We've like reworked my schedule to make that a priority. And so I'm just curious, you work with a ton of people you worked with me. Let's bring this to the table. How do people when they're so busy, when they're so exhausted, when they've got the kids, they've got the job, they've got all the people like how do you even start working out? How does this even become a reality for people?   Kiera Dent (06:22.136) What do you tell people when they're in that spot? Because I think every person listening to this podcast is probably there.   Laura (06:27.225) Yeah, I think we all have some desire inside of us to move. Humans want to move and life gets in the way. And I think the determining factor of are you going to do this or not is are you willing to think deeply enough about why it's important in your life? Like what happens if you don't do this? Take yourself five, 10 years, 15, 20 years down the road.   What does life look like once you've retired and you have all this money to spend and all this adventure to have, but your body is not working properly and you can't truly experience life in the way that you want because your body is failing you. Like take yourself there, take yourself to that hard, reality that if you don't figure this out, you're going to have this experience of life. Or what if you do look at your life one year from now, if you decide to just commit 30 minutes a week.   Even if it's 10 minutes at a time, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 10 minutes, first thing in the morning, I wake up and I get on my Peloton or I do three sets of 20 squats. Like just start so small. What does life look like in a year? If you start that now and you don't stop in 10 years and 20 years, the trajectory of your life will be so different. And I think it's, that is the, like I said, determining factor, whether or not someone commits to this for the long haul.   You have to be very realistic about your about your situation and what you want out of life, know We're so serious about building businesses and making money and being successful But what happens once you get there and you don't have the vessel to carry you through that's that's very that's scary to me So that's that's where I take people   Kiera Dent (07:57.722) Hmm.   Kiera Dent (08:09.496) I agree. I completely agree. And I love that you did this because like at Tony Robbins, he calls it the like Ebenezer Scrooge experience where you like, he literally makes you walk down. It's like terrifying. You hear all these like thousands of people screaming like how awful it'd be. But I don't think we actually like make this as much of a reality. I don't think we see it. And for me, I thought, okay, I really do have a vision of myself. Tiff will tell you, gosh, it's awesome. Tiff and I have committed that we're gonna be like.   98 year old grannies. I'm gonna have cotton candy pink hair. She's gonna have cotton candy blue hair We're gonna be driving jazzy's with NOS like not because we have to but just because we want to we'll have our own drones like I got this whole vision, but I thought about it and I thought If I don't have a body to get me between let's say 35 when I started thinking about it to 95 like that's a huge span of time. We're talking 60 years   Laura (08:41.12) huh.   my gosh.   Laura (08:47.705) haha   Kiera Dent (09:02.104) I can't just hope and pray that my body is going to last. Like this is an engine and I remember thinking, I love cars. I really love cars. And I thought like, Kiera, if you had a Ferrari sitting in the garage, how would you take care of this? And I'm like, I'd put the highest level of gas. I would wash it. I would like keep it protected. I would drive it so kind. And I remember I was on a podcast with another person and they said, you literally, your body is a billion. That's with a B as in body, a billion dollar asset. Do you treat it that way?   Laura (09:31.833) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (09:31.95) And I thought, well, if I'm willing to give that love and care to a Ferrari, what if I thought about my own body as a Ferrari and how would I treat it? And it's crazy because for me that worked. And I started thinking like, I would eat better. Like I truly would take care of it. I would work out. I would prioritize it. And just like you said, starting with where we are, I think like any amount of movement is going to help. So even reading the book, Atomic Habits by James Clear, he talks about like habit stacking.   and just starting and like other books, essentialism, they talk about if it's too hard, we don't start. And so it's that startup effort. So I love Laura where you're like, okay, you get out of bed and you do one squat. Fantastic. Like you could start there and that's not as hard, but I think we go from like zero to 700. And I think that's the gap. so like, let's dive into, all right, I'm committed. I've decided I see the Ebenezer Scrooge. I see where I'm gonna be. I've got 60 years that I need to keep this.   Laura (10:06.935) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (10:25.174) amazing body that I've been blessed with going. I also think about, here's another thought that's helped me too, of this body is not Kiera. This body is something that Kiera was given to take care of, just like a business, just like a team. And I've thought about my body and I'm like, when I separated the thought of like, I am this body and I started to see this body allows me to have life.   Laura (10:37.933) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (10:49.71) This body allows me to podcast. This body allows me to work. This body allows me to work with clients. This body allows me to do all the fun things, to travel. And if I don't take care of her, A, like who am I with this body doing so much for me? And B, how can I take care of her even more? So it kind of became this fun game of like, this isn't for me. I'm good at serving a team. Why not serve my body as well when I realize that's not me? So if that helps you as well. So, okay, we're here, we're committed. Laura, it's like kicking off the new year. We're going to work out.   Do they need a trainer? What's the purpose of having a trainer? Like, can I do this on my own? Do I need a trainer? Is virtual or in person better? What are your thoughts around that? Because obviously I went for a trainer because I'm really terrible at accountability and also I had injuries and I didn't want to hurt myself. But like, how do you coach people through this?   Laura (11:36.385) Yeah. I think, you know, and this is speaking from personal experience too. I also need the accountability. I love having a coach. I think having someone on your team, like linking arms, let's do this here are our goals is such a useful tool. And you're not, if you don't show up, you're not only not showing up for you, your body, but you're also not showing up for this person that's linked arms with you and put in effort and,   like actual love. Like I will just say, I truly love working with my clients. I, and I don't speak for all trainers, but I do know so many trainers that feel the exact same way. Like you really, it's, I don't know how to say this. I'm like about to say emotional attachment, but you really do become so attached to your clients and so committed to their goals that when they stop showing up or something happens and they get sidetracked, it's, it's   Kiera Dent (12:19.906) Yeah.   Laura (12:31.189) It affects you as a trainer too. So what I'm trying to say is if you feel like you need that accountability, 100 % get a trainer, find a trainer that you connect with. Don't just go to a random, I mean, you can do this, but it's not my recommendation going to like a chain gym. I won't name any names of gyms, but just a chain gym where there's trainers there, they're paying their trainers minimum wage. These people probably have very little experience and are not looking to create that relationship with you.   Kiera Dent (12:49.326) Bye.   Laura (13:00.089) I think it's important to find someone that you really connect with that feels like an ally and listens to you, sees you. That is very important. As far as online versus in person, it's completely what the plan that's going to work is the one you can stick with. So if you can get to a gym and you can see someone in person, you found someone in person that you connect with, great, go that route. But a lot of busy business people cannot do that. I have a lot of...   entrepreneurs and moms that can't get to the gym. So they do 30 minute at home workouts and they follow a workout on an app and that works beautifully for them. If I were to tell them you have to come in person, they would not be able to make it happen. So it's very different from person to person. You just need to check in with yourself and figure out what would work best for you. Try it, see if it works. If it doesn't make a change.   and so on, but there's either way in person or online. There's, you know, we have technology on our side nowadays. There's so many beautiful ways to get quality coaching through virtual. So I think a lot of people have this like stigma against online coaching because they're like, I want to make sure I'm doing everything right. I don't think I'll show up for myself, but truly looking at my own program and you might agree or disagree, but a lot of   the clients that I have online are held even more accountable than the people that I have in person because it's just a more robust program. So it's very different than a lot of people expect.   Kiera Dent (14:37.474) I agree. And I did not expect virtual to be as good. I had done virtual in the past and I had someone who told me this trainer, she told me, said, Kiera, I'm actually not your coach. I'm just a programmer for you. And I remember that like cut me deep because I thought like, no, you did link arms with me. Like I want you to be as invested in this as I am. And meeting you, Laura, I...   purposely chose you because you're here in Reno and I was like, no, I want to go in person. And I actually think something very lovely about virtual and I will speak, your virtual was much different than other people's virtual. Like Laura is, doesn't mess around. It was an hour every single week where we would actually meet. We went over every single one of my workouts that I had completed. We did videos. And what I actually loved about that was being able to watch myself.   Laura (14:59.417) and   Kiera Dent (15:20.236) And with you, I started to pick out like when my moves weren't great. And something I loved about starting virtual and then going in person was I feel like I, I mean, you will say it so nice. You say like, let's pretty up that movement. Like let's make this prettier to where we're doing the move. And by prettying it up, it's not like I'm trying to look pretty. It's we're making perfect moves so we don't hurt ourselves. We're working the muscles better. And it's crazy because I think I was so.   like hypersensitive, I was hard to catch it in the mirror. I was hard to catch things. I'm like, Laura's not gonna like that. Like move my shoulder, get myself more of a statue because you forced me to watch my videos because that's all we had to do together. And so that was something I really liked about virtual. In person, I think I lift harder and I push myself harder because you're sitting there right next to me and I'm like, I wanna quit. And you're like, let's go, let's go, let's go. So that is, but it is interesting because we don't record me when I'm at the gym. I love when we do record because then I can see the little movements.   Laura (16:07.704) Yes.   Kiera Dent (16:15.172) But at home, I'm forced to watch myself more than I am at the gym. So I think those are two pros and cons. But Laura, I'm curious. There's so many trainers out there, just like there's consultants out there. Like how on earth do I sift through the noise and pick like someone who actually knows what the heck they're doing? Cause I did research on you to make sure you were actually a good trainer. I was ready to invest in myself, but like what questions do we even ask for? Like, are you a good trainer? Do you know what you're doing? Do you not know what you're doing? How do I like sort through that noise?   Laura (16:34.391) Yeah.   Laura (16:41.689) Mm-hmm.   Yeah, I think that experience is important. I think some people are have a natural skill to be able to connect with people and see how a body moves and know what changes need to be made to make it move properly. But it is like, you know, it takes a long time to master how to communicate with people. I do think I had not to toot my own horn or anything, but I feel like I   Kiera Dent (17:10.786) You should, I brought you on the podcast. Cause I think you're a freaking expert at this and I think you do really well. And I worked with other people and that's why I brought you to like to drone horn because I sifted you out of a lot of people and I picked you intentionally because I knew you had eating disorders that you had dealt with. And I know food's a big portion, which we're going to talk about food next. I also checked with a bunch of people that I trusted to see, like, does Laura actually know her stuff or is she just another like nonsense trainer out there?   Laura (17:18.389) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (17:36.046) Like, and not nonsense trainer. I get that everybody's trying their best, but I needed somebody who was more experienced, who knew with having injuries. wasn't like, I got hurt really bad with my other trainer to where I couldn't walk for almost a month because like I told her I had a knee problem. She didn't make sure that I did it correctly. And lo and behold, I then like basically blew out my knee for an entire month. So like, how do we not get those issues and those injuries?   Laura (17:41.529) Mm-hmm.   Laura (17:55.289) Yeah, think I I mean, know what you need. First of all, go into your consultation. Hopefully you're doing consultation with these people if they don't require it, ask for it. Ask for a meeting first before you commit to anything and ask them about their experience. Tell them your situation and what you're looking for exactly. And if someone see you know, I feel like we're all pretty   Kiera Dent (18:08.043) Hahaha   Laura (18:22.081) I feel like we can read people, know, as humans, can read people. can tell typically if someone is like bullshitting you or telling you straight up. I will be the first person to say, I do not know everything, but I am willing to put in the work, do the research to try and figure out some solutions for you. And if I can't, I will refer you out. I have no problem referring you out. So I think, I think experience and honesty are like my two things to look for.   Kiera Dent (18:28.953) Mm-hmm.   Laura (18:49.791) in a trainer when you're doing your consultations. And then connection. know what I mean? Can you see yourself being able to build a relationship with this person, but also see them as coach, not a best friend, as coach, and respect them? I'm trying to think, how can you determine if this person, from a beginner's mindset, looking at, say Instagram, because let's just be honest, that's where we find a lot of our people,   Kiera Dent (18:54.926) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (19:17.476) grade.   Laura (19:18.841) looking at how someone moves, think, don't know, Kiera, tell me if you're like on Instagram and you're seeing a random trainer girl and you see her doing some moves from a beginner's mindset, can you tell if she's doing, you know, she's connected or do you have no idea? I don't know. I'm not in a beginner's mind. You know what I mean? So I'm trying to figure out how to, to offer that advice, like find someone who knows how to move their body.   Kiera Dent (19:37.761) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (19:42.042) I don't think my eye was definitely clued into it. I think things I looked for was, that person look the way I wanna look? Because I feel like if so, I...   Laura (19:46.402) Yeah.   Laura (19:50.617) I play walking the walk.   Kiera Dent (19:53.562) Yeah, I mean, I want to look like them. So that was one thing. It's funny, Laura and I thought we were the same height when we were virtual training. And then in person, Laura's like a foot shorter than me. So that's always entertaining when I'm like, girl, that needs to go up a little higher. Like that bench is going to like cut my legs in half, like it needs to go up. So that was kind of a funny random, but I look for that now after working with you. I definitely can spot. And at first I was judgy about it and you did a good job of helping me see like   Laura  (19:59.53) you   Laura  (20:05.721) No.   Kiera Dent (20:21.956) We're not judgy, we're just like wanting to make sure people take care of their bodies. so like looking for, I think a good trainer, watching the movements, you like get on me all the time of like, Kiera, don't go through the movement quickly, like go through it slowly. I want you super connected. Like if we're doing my lats, you you showed me a picture and you're like, I want you to visualize those lats. I want them like sucking down. I want you pulling, like right now I'm doing it. I feel those lats engaged back there.   Laura (20:25.273) Thank   Kiera Dent (20:49.422) But I think something I really loved was even, even having a trainer watch like maybe a squat or something and asking them like what they see for feedback. Laura, you're not afraid to give me feedback. You're not afraid to say like, Hey, like right there, need to like, like yesterday, you're like, get that hip up. And I'm like, I don't even know what you're talking about. My hips feel very up. And then it was like just a quick tilt of the hip and instantly the movement felt a lot stronger. So I think like those things as a beginner's mindset, really can help out because   Laura (21:14.777) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (21:17.324) What I found is you are so meticulous about making sure my movement is not sloppy, that I'm connected. Like there was even a day I was picking up weights on my video. So it wasn't even the workout and you're like, Kiera, watch it right there. Cause when these weights get heavier, you're going to hurt your back and you need to lift these properly. And so I really think as a beginner, maybe even taking a workout, that sounds so funny, but like, Hey, could you just like tell me what you would like critique on this squat? You don't even know what the heck they're doing, but almost like taking that to the consultation. Yeah.   Laura (21:43.031) Yeah, but just see how they go through. I like that idea.   Kiera Dent (21:46.618) Now I can see it. I can see it a lot more, for me,   Laura (21:49.667) Yeah, as a beginner, hard to know. I mean, you can sometimes you can scroll through someone's feed and see like, is there? What do they find important in workouts? What are they posting about? What do their workouts look like? Are they slow? Are they connected? Or are they just like rushing through? And I think you could spot a couple of things, but yeah, asking specific question as far as like, what is, what will we focus on when we're working out? You know, ask them what,   Kiera Dent (22:02.042) Mm-hmm.   Laura (22:17.919) What is your skill level on critiquing technique? Yeah, it's a hard, that's a hard, that piece is a little hard to figure out as a beginner and talking to trainers. That's something to think on.   Kiera Dent (22:30.858) Mm-hmm. And that's something I would, I feel like you were so adamant with me about getting my movements perfect without adding weight. Cause I think a lot go to like wanting to get results. And for you, you don't care if my body's not changing very much at the beginning. If I'm not mastering my movements, that's gonna be what you're gonna be core focused on until I get those right. And I think to me, that's what I care about because once you master the movements, then you can lift the weight like,   Kiera Dent (22:57.016) We were doing heavier weight than I ever thought. And I'm coming as a girl who could not squat, could not lunge, could not do any of that. Laura, kudos to you. You were able to work through it so much. So maybe even pretend you have all of my ailments when you go into the consultation and see, could they help you? And then you'd really know. that's something I really do love because Laura does do virtual. And so if you don't live in Reno, she was incredible. We did almost a year virtual before I went in person. And so I think like,   Laura (23:08.824) Hahaha   Just ask Kiera to do the consultation with you and she'll tell you.   Kiera Dent (23:26.21) mastering the techniques and getting into the workouts and like you, you hunted me down. And for some people virtual doesn't work, but I think for a lot of people giving that a go, I think is super helpful, but I really want to quickly pivot because I, it's going to be controversial Laura and I can't wait. And I didn't prepare you for this. but I think you'll have a good answer. Let's say I'm looking at this and I'm like, okay, I'm going to work out. but I hear like calories in like abs are made in the kitchen, not necessarily at the gym.   Laura (23:41.207) Mm-hmm. Okay.   Laura  (23:52.963) Mm-hmm. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (23:55.894) So what's more important to you? Is it my diet and my macros, which we'll get into macros in a second. I had no clue what it was, or is it like technique and workout?   Laura (24:05.642) gosh, that's an impossible question. Absolutely impossible. It definitely depends on what your goals are. What I think everyone's goal should be is to age in a graceful way. That's such a cliche thing to say, but to be healthy, you know, to be healthy and feel your absolute best and be able to show up for your family as you age. So, and with that goal, both of those things matter. If you're not.   Kiera Dent (24:22.97) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (24:31.322) I knew you'd say both, I knew it!   Laura (24:33.689) I can't, can't pick one or the other. I absolutely can't. And then if we go to the other goal that a lot of people have, which is aesthetics and like looking a certain way, both also matter very much. And it depends on like your body type, you know? So I can't, I can't give you a straight answer on that.   Kiera Dent (24:49.081) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (24:53.402) Okay, well let's talk food because this was like, think Laura and I talked, I think on our last like virtual session and we were like debating, we wanted to continue. And I said, I like workout Laura. I don't like food Laura. And you said, I like workout Kiera. I don't like food Kiera. So let's talk about food because for me, food was actually a really tricky thing. It was something I did not enjoy. But.   Like, can we just touch on macros and like why you find macros important and what macros even are for those who don't even know what the heck we're talking about. And then I will share my version of this, of how I've like worked through it as someone who has struggled with my relationship with food for a lot of my life and just had like a huge, amazing win at Thanksgiving that was just like a really incredible way for me to see the progress I've made with this food journey. So Laura, talk about macros, food, how this works with your workouts.   Laura (25:26.51) Yes.   Laura (25:33.497) Mm-hmm.   Laura (25:45.901) Yes. Yes. So macros, just to give you guys an idea of what they are, are macronutrients. All of our food are made up of macronutrients. Our proteins, our carbs, and our fats. These are the macro big nutrients in our food. There's also micronutrients, which are your vitamins and minerals within the foods that we eat. The reason I chose to do macros, I've done everything under the sun. From the time I was...   very young and doing like, I can't remember the name of the shakes that my mom was doing. You know, it's like, I have been quote unquote dieting for 20 years. And so I've done keto, I've done a meal plan, I've done competitive bodybuilding, I've done, what else is there? Whole 30. I've done, you know, like shakes, like the isogenics, 30 day cleanse. I've done cleanses, I've done all kinds of things.   Kiera Dent (26:16.682) yeah.   Laura (26:40.721) And why I landed on macros was because with all of those other diets, it was very hard to imagine doing it forever. like for keto, for example, keto diet is where you're eating very, very low carbs and your majority eating proteins and fats. For me, I'm like, I love my vegetables. I love my potatoes. I love my bread. I can't see myself never having those things again. It felt too restrictive.   And with meal plans, know, coach giving you a meal plan of like, here's what I want you to have for breakfast. Here's what I want you to have for lunch. There's not much flexibility. You don't have control. With macros, you're simply given, this is how much protein I want you to eat. This is how much carbs I want you to eat. And this is how many fats I want you to eat. And you get to fill those in the way that you want. There are guidelines. Of course, we don't want everyone having packaged food, their entire, you know, a hundred percent of their food. We want whole foods.   foods close to earth 80 % of the time, but for that other 20 % of the time, have fun, have what you want. I love cookies. I love Mexican food. love sushi. I love going out to dinner and I can make all of that work within my macros. And with clients specifically, the biggest win I always get with the whole macro counting thing is you just learn with the foods that you love, you learn what they're made up of and you learn how to use them to fuel your goals.   So people that love bagels, have a bagel before your workout, have a bagel after your workout. Having those starchy carbs before or after a workout is extremely beneficial to help energize you for your workouts and help recover your muscles from the workout that you just did. And then prioritize your fibrous foods later on in the day to help satiate yourself so you're not going to bed feeling starving.   So there's a strategy involved. get to, you learn so, so much about the foods you're already eating. You make these tiny, small little changes that will help you get the results that you've always dreamed of. And it's something that you can do forever.   Laura (28:46.809) A lot of people, not everybody. Not everyone can do it. I also struggled with an eating disorder for a decade. I had bulimia for a long time and maybe not a decade. It started when I was like 13 for no good reason. Someone else, some girl was doing it. 13 years old, isn't that insane? And my, you know, I've been healed from that for about five, six years now.   Kiera Dent (29:03.47) It's insane. It's insane.   Laura (29:12.453) And I feel like I have been doing macros for about five, six years now. And I do feel like it was healing for me. It truly helped me stop the bad behavior of labeling foods good and bad, of binging because I was feeling so restricted on other diets. And yeah, it's just allowed a lot of freedom and flexibility for me and healed a lot of food trauma for me. So that's the gist.   Kiera Dent (29:16.506) That's incredible.   Kiera Dent (29:40.622) Yeah, that's incredible. And congratulations. I think that that's a big thing. Whether you're male or female, I think body image, think food issues. I think all of us have it, whether it's binging, whether it's not eating healthy, like all these things. And I think if we go back to like what you said of aging, like for me, I wouldn't be able to say yes to like hiking Machu Picchu when I'm 95. Like I really want to be that person where my last like...   Laura (29:50.041) Mm-hmm.   Laura (30:02.489) And I'm gonna turn it.   Kiera Dent (30:06.776) I don't know, month of my life is when my body decides to give out on me because I've taken such good care of her. And Jason's like, no, no, no, let's just go in a car accident. let's not even have that last month. So, you know, we've upped our game, but just thinking about that, the food situation for me, I think going into it, that was hard because I'm adding a workout, plus I'm adding food and my default is if it's too hard to eat, I'm just not going to eat.   Laura (30:16.409) Mm-hmm.   Hahaha   Kiera Dent (30:33.442) And so that was like my big struggle with macros, but what was super fascinating to me was realizing how much fat was in food, like shocking amounts of fat. Like I was blown away when I started looking at labels, seeing that I could have almost the exact same food, but just eating different. like, instead of bacon, like you can have turkey bacon and get a ton of protein. Like it actually grills up way easier. It was kind of a fun puzzle. And like, I just got it to where it was like simple things like,   I understand it's fats, carbs and proteins for every meal. And Laura, you did a great job because like Jason, I go out to eat all the time. I'm on the road all the time. And so just even learning like, what can you eat at restaurants that works within macros? And agreed, it's not good or bad. Like I can straight up pound these amazing, like I love Laura. I don't think I've even told you this. When I'm done working out, uncrustable strawberry, like it's so good and it is amazing, but to not have that good or bad.   Laura (31:22.041) yes.   Kiera Dent (31:28.726) is such a freeing thing. so I really think the thing I loved was you said, Keir, if you want to build muscle, you've got to actually like have enough protein to build this muscle. And so learning that I'm not having food just for pleasure. I'm having food to fuel these goals that I want of looking a certain way of having the muscle strength to be able like right now, I just don't want to be a weak feeble grandma. Like that's really my goal is to just not be that. And so it's like, build the glutes, build the hams, build the back, build the arms like   Laura  (31:56.003) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (31:56.728) And it's been crazy because as I've been building muscle, I actually don't have as many problems because we've been able to like stabilize around my shoulders, stabilize around my knees. Like it still happens and there's still setbacks, but it's less and less compared to what it was. And so I knew you'd say food and workouts go hand in hand, but I think for everybody listening, I think just like a one or 2 % change in each of these areas is a great start. So it's like, do one squat and maybe think about like fats, proteins and carbs.   or maybe even just look at the labels of how many fats there are. Like just look at that and see. And I think that would be a fun thing. So I know as we kick off the new year, as I know we roll into this, usually we're looking at goals for our businesses. And I'm hoping with this podcast that you look at goals for your life. Goals of like, I look at my life and I want to travel a ton. But to do that, this amazing body that I've been blessed with also needs to be taken care of. And so that's what I was hoping bringing Laura on of like.   A, as a thank you, she's done so much for me and just like healing my, like my body. It's so fun when I hit gains at the gym and I'm like, Laura, we're freaking lifting like more than I ever thought I'd be able to. That has been so rewarding for me as a human. And so as a huge appreciation to Laura, like I want her on the podcast. I want to expose her to all of you. But secondly, it's a new year and I feel like giving you tools and resources to get on your health journey if you want to, to have resources in the industry. So I wanted Laura to be an example for you of   Hey, if it works great, reach out to her. If you want to chat with her, she does men and women. She tends to coach more women than men. That's okay. but there's lots of great coaches out there for men and women. She even critiqued Jason in my workouts. Jason did a lot of workouts with me at home. So it was fun. He and I did them together. I would tell him like, Laura says you need to get that leg up higher. Like it's not quite the right form. so that was a ton of fun we did together, but just having a resource out there, you could even follow her, look at kind of how she coaches.   Laura (33:44.217) What?   Kiera Dent (33:51.758) But just like learning the things that she's doing, I thought would be so valuable. Cause I hope that this year you give yourself not only the gift of growing your practice, but also becoming like having the body that you want, having the body that can feel your dreams and desires and truly honoring that body that does so much for you. So Laura, tell people how they can get in touch with you. I appreciate you so much. So just share with the world how they can connect with you. Cause I think you are such a gift to this world that I'm so grateful to know.   Laura (34:17.369) Well, thank you so much. really appreciate it. so Instagram is probably one of the best ways to contact me. It's Laura Lee, MIT. I also have a website coached by laura.co and you can apply for coaching on that website. but yeah, as Kiera said, well, I want to add on to what you said that once you decide to start this journey, if you can commit to just like the small one to 2 % change,   and never stop, you're never going to regret it. It's the most beautiful, amazing journey that I have ever done for myself. And I watch women do it every single day. it's just, lives are changed and experience of life just goes through the roof. It's just such a better experience. So, yeah, just encouraging you start and don't stop and make it, make it small, make it doable, but start and don't stop. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (35:14.042) Brilliant. I love it. And I will say, coming from someone who did not enjoy working out, I remember you said one time, like, you never regret going to the gym. And I've thought about that a lot. And I'm like, sometimes I regret driving to the gym because I don't want to be there. You've even asked me, like, are you excited to be here today? And I'm like, no, I don't want to be here. But every time I leave, I feel so good. And I think just like, as you said, start and don't stop and think about like,   Laura (35:23.961) I'm sorry.   Laura (35:31.842) We'll be back.   Kiera Dent (35:40.226) Our bodies do so much for us. This is the one little simple act we get to do back for it that serves it. And I think about, I'm gonna do like a cheesy dental analogy, but telling so many patients about fluoride, we always say like, this is the most proactive and preventative thing you can do for your teeth. And I feel like similarly working out and eating well is most proactive and preventative thing that we can do for our bodies for long-term health and sustainability. So Laura, thank you for what you've done. I would really recommend, I hope all of you reach out, connect.   Do something for your body this year. I know a year from now when we're chatting in January of next year, you will be so grateful like I am that you cared about yourself enough, that you loved that body that does so much for you, that's allowed you to have the business and the life and the job and the family and all the different pieces that taking 15 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour every day to honor it is the greatest gift you'll ever give yourself. So Laura, thank you.   Laura (36:34.275) Thank you.   Kiera Dent (36:35.914) Of course. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

It's the game where Ben & Kelly toss jokes back and forth until someone laughs.... it's You Laugh You Lose!

How do you navigate a bumpy job market with an agile mindset? Join Brian and leadership coach Mark Kilby as they explore practical strategies for staying prepared, leveraging your network, and taking ownership of your career during uncertain times. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors podcast, Brian Milner and Mark Kilby explore how to approach the challenges of today’s unpredictable job market with an agile mindset. Drawing on insights from Mark’s extensive career as a leadership and career coach, they discuss how preparation, adaptability, and proactive networking are essential to staying ahead. Mark emphasizes the importance of treating your career like a product, continuously iterating and inspecting trends to navigate change effectively. The conversation also delves into the power of maintaining strong professional relationships, keeping your resume and LinkedIn profile up to date, and using experimentation to explore new career paths. Whether you're facing a career transition, considering your next step, or simply looking to stay prepared, this episode offers actionable advice to help you take ownership of your professional journey. References and resources mentioned in the show: Mark Kilby From Chaos to Successful Distributed Agile Teams: Collaborate to Deliver by Johanna Rothman & Mark Kilby Advanced Certified Scrum Product Owner® Advanced Certified ScrumMaster® Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Mark Kilby is a leadership and career coach specializing in helping leaders and teams thrive in complexity. Passionate about building more inclusive and effective organizations, he draws on years of experience guiding professionals through organizational change, remote work transitions, and sustainable growth, all with a focus on fostering trust, collaboration, and long-term success. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors. We're back and this is another episode of the Agile Mentors podcast. I'm with you as always Brian Milner and today I've got a friend that I have seen talk several times at conferences, we were talking, I don't think I've actually crossed paths with him personally yet, but Mr. Mark Kilby is here. Welcome in Mark. Mark Kilby (00:21) Thank you, Brian, and glad that we finally had a chance to meet virtually face to face at least. Brian (00:26) Right? Right? Yeah. And today's world, you know, that's actually saying a lot. You know, that's kind of the default. Mark is a leadership and career coach and has been, you know, a speaker at multiple Agile conferences over the years. He has a book that he co-authored called From Chaos to Successful Distributed Agile Teams. And he has spoken on lots of different topics. Mark Kilby (00:31) Yes it is. Brian (00:51) But when we talked about having him on, we talked about a topic that I know is very topical here. For some of you, maybe, know, kind of right in the meat of where you are at the moment, but really starting to think about this bumpy job market a little bit and how to navigate that with an agile mindset. You know, this agile stuff is not just stuff we talk about in working with a team, but it actually is a way of thinking about you know, doing anything. give me kind of your description there, Mark. When you think about, you know, navigating a bumpy job market with an agile mindset, how does that look different from others? Mark Kilby (01:27) So, well, it. The best way to think about this is whether you get this out of college at career placement or you're working with a career coach later on, it's always plan out your route and just follow the steps. Well, it's kind of hard over the last couple of years to say what the right steps are because so much has happened. And you and I were talking just before we hit the record button about one of the things that gets a little bumpy here in Florida, and we call those hurricanes. And I've learned over the many years living in Florida that you can prepare for hurricanes, but you can't prepare for exactly what happens. And so it's kind of the same way these days with our careers. You can maybe get certain certifications, you may get the right resume, the right LinkedIn profile, but if... If you're not paying attention to how the market shifts, and I think many people have been caught off guard with the latest market shifts, you can be in a world of hurt. how do do the prep to weather that storm? So that's kind what I'm focusing on these days. Brian (02:42) That's awesome. That's awesome way to look at it. Cause I think you're right. know, like I know I personally have gone through a couple of, you know, layoff periods in my career and, you know, it's never something when it hits, well, at least I shouldn't say this in my experience, I absolutely were completely prepared for, they were a little bit of a shock when they happened and Mark Kilby (02:51) yeah. Brian (03:05) first one much more so than the second one. I think you learn something from each time something like that happens. But you mentioned kind of the way the market is shifting and the way things are changing a little bit and trying to be prepared. So I wanna follow that for a little. So when you talk about navigating kind of a bumpy job market and the shifts and being prepared, how do you prepare for the unknown? For things that you don't really know what's coming or you don't really know how things are shifting. How do we do that? Mark Kilby (03:38) Yeah. Well, it's paying attention to some of the longer term trends. mean, 100 years ago, know, kind of fall into the hurricane example. We had no way to predict these. And now we've got a little better way. have models to kind of guess and it's still guessing. So, but at least we have a sense of, OK, how big is it going to be? You know, how big is the change that's going to happen? How do we prepare for it? Do we stay in place? Where we're at? Is it time to move and do something else? So it's kind of the same way with our careers these days. I'm gonna guess, not everyone's gonna have the visual, but with the amount of gray on the podcast right now, you could probably relate to this. Our parents probably stuck in the same job. most of their life. I learned early on, especially in tech, the changes that happen rapidly. Matter of fact, the place where I went as a summer intern shut down the next year. The whole plant went poof. But my parents were like, how can you? It's such a great place. This company's been around for decades. But I could tell that the winds were changing. Something was shifting there. So I learned to look at, right, how is the business doing? How is the market doing for the business? And what does that mean for me? So it really helps that we kind of build up our own little model to predict, you know, how is my job going to be here in the next year or so? Even five years ago, I saw early indicators that Azure coaches, scrum masters, we're going to be at risk. But the job market was going to turn. think several people could tell that. But I mean, we had so many that were going into that, that the set of roles and we were also, you we we were seeing some failures as well as successes with transformation. And I remember, so I actually had Ken Schwaber in my, as my my Scrum instructor, I remember him saying, know, Scrum will not solve your problems. It'll make them highly visible. But guess who gets blamed? The person who made it visible. you know, as, as agile coaches and Scrum masters, you know, were the, those folks in particular are always navigating a tightrope. You know, what, what do you, you know, what do you make visible, both the good and the bad? And if, if you're dealing, Brian (05:55) Yeah. Right. Mark Kilby (06:17) with cultures that are more focused on short-term kind of improvements and not looking at the longer term. How are people staying engaged? How are the steam aligned so they can do to deliver business value? You know, if that's not a focus of the organization, then it's that job, that role is going to be probably misunderstood and was. And so when things start going bad, fingers start getting pointed. It's like, okay, maybe we don't need these folks. And we've seen that for the last couple of years in particular, but we were getting early indicators well before that, well before the pandemic hit. So that shift was gonna happen. So we can model some of this is my point. Brian (07:01) Yeah. I like that. Go ahead. Well, I was going to go straight to that. I I like the comparison there with the hurricane. And I was thinking as you were talking about that, why are we better at it now? I would kind of presuppose it's because of the amount of data. But the more data we have, over the years, the better we are. And that if we've suddenly, magically, for whatever reason, lost all our historical data of hurricanes and what they do, then I would imagine we'd be back to square one of not really being able to predict very well about where they go. So translating that over into our careers, I love that comparison. And I love what you're pointing to to say, you can see indicators, can look at the trends, you can see how's the business doing. So that's kind of one of the things I want to ask you about a little bit is, especially here in this agile world, I know there's, I've heard lots of talk about, is this overall an agile thing that is on a decline or is this really more driven as an economy at large that's going through problems. And so we're kind of trickling down from that and feeling that. if I'm an employee for a company, what I'm trying to navigate then and figure out is I want to see trends for our business on the whole, but I also am trying to... Mark Kilby (08:38) Mm-hmm. Brian (08:40) fit that in with what the overall economy is and the market out there to see, is this just an overall thing for all of businesses right now and for the full economy or is this specifically something to do with our business that is kind of a, I would think a bigger warning sign than to start to get more prepared. Mark Kilby (08:59) Well, going back to the hurricane metaphor again, there's multiple things that impact that. It's the same thing for our jobs. So it's what data do you need to gather? And you pointed out to some of that. So what's happening with the company? What are you seeing in press releases? What are you seeing in commentary on your organization? I'll give an example of a company that no longer exists. So can safely speak about this company. So a company I was at early in my career and was well known in the Java programming space. They actually hosted a lot of Java sites at the time. They were also at the top of the, not the AI boom, but what was called the internet boom, know, dot com boom way back. And they went through the same Friends that a lot of companies did spending a lot of money Not pulling not pulling in revenue and it was very public how much they were spending When it became obvious that they bought like very expensive real estate office real estate in in Boston Harbor area and they bought very expensive real estate elsewhere You don't have to be a financial wizard to figure out like all right if they're spending all this money and and we're seeing pundits in other news sources say, yeah, we're not sure about this company. And you're seeing a lot of that. You might start to wonder as an employee, like, I wonder if I am really safe here. Is it time to hunker down or is it time to move? So you've got to gather your own data about your company, your industry, and even the broader economy. If you ignore that, you kind of ignore it at your own peril. We have to be the product owners of our own career. Brian (10:47) Mm, I love that. Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. Well, so shifting gears a little bit, because I think we obviously are not going to, we're soothsayers or anything. We can't foretell the future exactly. And there's always going to be things that kind of catch us off guard. There's the unknowns and that's Mark Kilby (10:48) Yeah. Yeah. Brian (11:10) Partly what we talk about a lot in Agile is just the idea that you can't know everything upfront. So you got to be prepared. You got to have a system that works for you that kind of allows for those unknowns to come along and then allows you to adjust as you're going through. So that's kind of where I want to go next then is if we accept the fact that, we have indicators and they can give us an indication about the job market or about our company. And we have to kind of assess those independently to see if it's time to move or we should be ready for something to happen or not. Once that threshold is crossed, once we make that decision, or it's made for us, then we're into a whole other world. And we talk about this being a bumpy job market. Well, it's bumpy on both sides of that threshold. So how would that apply to you? After you've crossed that threshold, how do we use Agile and an Agile mindset to navigate the task and the hardships of trying to find the next thing? Mark Kilby (12:16) Well, there's even a little bit before that. So that's OK, but a great question. And I'll come back around to it. So just as you're starting any agile project or program, there's some setup. There's some prep that you have to put in place. And I'm going to tie back to the hurricane metaphor here also. There are seasons for that prep sometimes. So think about the season you're in. Brian (12:18) Okay, sorry. Mark Kilby (12:41) month to month, quarter to quarter, and maybe you're wrapping up a big program, that would be a great time to update your resume and your LinkedIn. Not waiting until you're out of a job, but go ahead and just like, you know, I think I'm going to update. And people will say, but I don't want other people to know that I've updated my LinkedIn profile. There's an option for that. You can shut that off so that doesn't happen. But you want to get in that, that there's prep seasons like, okay, if something were to happen, what do I need to do? What do I, what, what I need to have ready? So keeping that resume up to date, keeping that LinkedIn profile up to date, then looking at, okay, I I've kind of doing these, these cycles of, of prep and also reflection on past work. Maybe I want to think about what was the work I enjoyed that I want to amplify through. LinkedIn, resume, and maybe even talk about a LinkedIn and kind of be broadcasting a little bit. I really enjoyed this project we just finished up. That gets you a little bit out there. And I can already hear the introverts cringing. But if you talk about the ideas, what you learned as an introvert, that works for me. Brian (13:47) Hahaha. Mark Kilby (13:56) I mean, that's how I got into remote work because I found interesting ideas and concepts to talk about. And that's how I got known by that. I looking to make a job switch? No. But I was broadcasting, hey, this is the kind of stuff I really enjoy doing, hoping to attract others who are also interested in that. And yes, it did lead to new job opportunities. So I got hired in 2014 because of the stuff I posted in LinkedIn around those times. So it's kind of doing that inspect and adapt, inspecting, where am I currently as I wrap up a big significant chunk of work? How do I capture some of that? What do I want to reflect? And what do I want to kind of make transparent about what I liked about that? Then let's say the winds turn and things get a little bumpy. Well, if you've... If you've been kind of connecting people, connecting with people online, if you've been kind of talking about, this is kind of things I do, it's much easier to go out there and say, hey, I'm looking for a new opportunity. You've seen what I've talked about online. What ideas, what do you have network? What do you have community? So it makes it much easier if you do some of that prep work and kind of reflect and inspect into that. Brian (15:20) Yeah, I'm getting a connection there too. I don't know if this is intentional or not, but I'm getting kind of a connection because I know in the agile world, we're all about how teams work together and just kind of that whole mindset of the best architectures, designs, right? The best stuff comes from a group of people working alongside each other. And I'm connecting that a little bit to what you just said, because you're talking a lot about how you're reaching out to the community through your LinkedIn profile and through post and other things. And that feels a little like you're kind of teaming, like you're teaming up with the network that you've made to try to solve this big problem that you have. Mark Kilby (16:05) And from a career standpoint, we team in different ways. mean, how many of us have been to courses, conferences, we've met people that we've kind of connected with, or we've talked about some great ideas, like, yeah, let's stay connected, let's talk more about that. How often do you follow up with those people? Do you like forget until the next conference? Do you maybe check in every six months? Maybe a little sooner? Maybe say, hey, what kind of projects are you working on based on that idea we talked about? Reach out to those connections that you made. of just not to keep them warm, but just to say, hey, what are you working on? How does it compare to what I'm working on? Let's just talk about that. Let's do some more reflection on that. Brian (16:49) I think that's great advice because I hear what you were saying earlier and agree. It's kind of a struggle when you're working at a company and you're not really sure yet whether you're moving on or you're not and no one has told you anything. But you're starting to feel the signs and you're starting to look around and say, maybe it's time, but it's not right for me to just blast it. It's not right for me to go to LinkedIn and... Mark Kilby (17:02) Mm hmm. Yeah. Brian (17:15) Because you don't want the boss or coworker to see that and say, what's going on? You don't want that to happen. But I think you're right. There's more subtle ways you can do that by just starting to connect to key people in your network. And I like that phrase. I like being able to say, hey, what's going on in this area? Or what have you done in this area that we talked about when we last connected? I think that's a great approach to that. Mark Kilby (17:40) because it's so much easier to ask for help when you need it then, rather than if you haven't talked to that person in five years since you saw them in a conference. But if you stayed in touch and just talked about, hey, here's some things I'm dealing with at work, how about you? What are you coming across? What are you learning? What are you trying? Or what are you struggling with? And if they know you're struggling, then they might say, hey, you know, I heard of this opportunity. And that's where the network helps you. That's where the team helps you out. Brian (18:12) Yeah. They always say that, you know, like that's the, that's your strongest avenue to, to another job is, is, you know, a personal connection and inroad, to the company. Cause you bypass all the, you know, all the silly AI stuff of scanning through resumes and do you have the right keywords and all that stuff? which, know, that's a whole other thing. but, you know, if you do, I think you're right. If you can make that personal connection. Mark Kilby (18:34) Mm-hmm. Brian (18:39) your resume can go to the top of the pile. You skip the initial vetting, you go to the interview, and once you get the interview, then you're golden from that point forward. Yeah, I love that. That's a great approach and I like the idea of continuing to maintain that network. But I will tell you, from my first layoff to my second layoff and how I kind of approach things was very, very different. And I'm kind of curious how this fits in with what you advise people as well, because I know my first layoff, I got a little snowed by certain people where I started to make strong connections. I started to go through energy process with people and they're in the full recruitment mode at that point, because they don't know if it's going to be you or somebody else. if you get to be... you know, one of the finalists, they're interviewing you, but they're also recruiting you. And I know I made that mistake early in my career of just thinking, well, I'm close. I'm close with these things. So I don't need to worry about continuing to do the day-to-day hard work of reaching out and making new connections and starting the process new. Because I don't want to lead them on. I don't want anybody to think that I'm, you know, interested when I'm so close with this other one over here. Mark Kilby (19:45) yeah. Brian (19:54) And yeah, I learned pretty quickly that's a mistake. know, those things, there's no promises. And you know, you gotta keep turning that crank every day of sending things out. So how does that fit in a little bit with the strategy? Mark Kilby (19:58) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well. Well. mean, to map it back to Azure concepts, you never prepped just one thing on the backlog. You're looking at what are some things that might pop up in this next sprint or this next phase of work? What is it that we might consider, but we're gonna make the final decision when it's time to make that decision? So you can't be in that stage as you talk about those final conversations and you're still doing the dance with them. It's like. You're confirming is this the right place and they're confirming are you the right one to bring in? That's not the decision point. The decision point is when the offer is made. So you've got to get some other things. You got to keep some other things going in the backlog. Keep it going, keep it going. And I would say even once you've accepted that offer, you might wait a week. because I've had some colleagues where they've gone in, they've gone through those interviews and maybe everything wasn't as advertised in the position. I think some of us have been in that where you go and it's like, this is not the job I signed up for. So keep those other connections warm for a week or two, just in case, just in case. Brian (21:24) Yeah, that's great advice. I tell a story sometimes to people in the classes about how there was a job I went to that's interviewed and they were asking me all sorts of agile questions. They wanted me to come in because of my agile expertise. I get in and unfortunately for me, it took a few months before it became clear that they were actually hearing the word agile from their division leader. And the division leader was not using capital A Agile. They were using small a Agile and saying, we just need to be faster. But he would throw out the word Agile. And so they heard Agile and thought, well, we need to know about this Agile thing. And yeah, that was not a good fit. That was not as advertised. I wish I had found that out earlier. But you make the decisions when you cross that threshold. Well, this is good advice. And I'm kind of curious then as well, you know, maybe taking it back a higher step because, you know, maybe I'm not in the place where I'm trying to decide, is it time to leave? But, you know, part of navigating a job market is also navigating a career and trying to understand what's the right next path for me or what's the right next step to get to the next level of where I think I should be in my career. How would you kind of apply an agile mindset to that kind of a process? Mark Kilby (22:44) So I will say, since I started with extreme programming, I'll bring in another concept, the spike. How do you set up an experiment where you can explore, is this possible or not? So let's say you're an individual contributor and you're wondering, should I take on a management? Brian (22:51) Okay. Mark Kilby (23:04) How can you experiment with that? So are you a member of any volunteer organizations? Can you lead an effort and see what that looks like to coordinate people? To actually maybe plan a budget to get some event going? What would that look like for you? What does it look like when not everybody's cooperating? Because when you deal with volunteer teams, it gets way more interesting than it works sometimes. Because you're really trying to appeal to their motivation. You can't fire them if they're a volunteer usually. So if you look for how can I experiment with what's next? And is there some way I can lean into some of the same activities? And then when I go and apply for that management position, say, yeah, I've run some of these things at my church or at this community center, and I've organized this, I've set the budgets for that. So you're already demonstrating some of the possibilities. You're trying to decide, this something that I enjoy, that I will benefit from, that I can lean into that next phase of my career? Brian (24:12) Yeah, yeah, I love that. That's really great. Well, this topic is, I think, so topical for a lot of people and, well, just about everyone. Because we're all at some stage of our career, and we're all at some stage of our relationship with the place we're at at the moment. I think we all have to be aware. I think we have to keep our eyes open and ears open. And like you said, try to find those sources of data that can clue me in as to what my situation is and maybe what I need to be prepared for. Is the hurricane coming my way or has it turned? Mark Kilby (24:44) Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Brian (24:48) Before I let you go though, I do want to take just a second here before we wrap things up. Because I mentioned your book earlier, the book From Chaos to Successful Distributed Agile Teams. And I know you've done lots of talks and research on distributed agile teams far before COVID happened. So I guess I'll ask you what What do you think has changed today in the years since COVID, when things now things have started to settle a little bit more? How has the nature of distributed teams shifted in just the past few years? Mark Kilby (25:25) Well, I think we're seeing some of those shifts even in the last couple months with the call away from hybrid to fully back in the office. We've seen it with Amazon, we saw it with Dell, we're seeing it with others. So I think we're seeing the companies and the management that was looking at what's next, what's possible, and those that are like, no, we like things the way they work. I assume that we're going to see many existing hybrid setups go away. I see, I think there's very few that are going to survive. There have been some other companies that have gone fully remote, but I think we're going to see a lot more of return fully to the office because it's really hard to live in both spaces at once to be in the office and be remote. It's, it's just too difficult. We probably didn't amplify that enough in the book. That's the one thing that Johanna and I, we've talked many times about updating the book and it's like, no, not yet. It's not quite time. Let's let this phase pass. But I think we're going to see things go back to almost 2018 where there's some companies that are doing well remote. And it's not just startups because there's companies, thousand, 2000 employees that are functioning well, fully remote, but it takes a different mindset. Brian (26:29) Yeah. Mark Kilby (26:49) around how do you connect, do you keep people engaged, how do you keep them motivated. So all those things that we were all forced to answer during the pandemic, some of these companies have been answering that a little bit more, I would say thoughtfully rather than being forced to answer them. Brian (27:09) That's a nice way to look at it. Yeah, I agree with that. Well, mean, so much road has passed our tires from when you guys started that. I mean, you wrote that prior to COVID, right? Yeah. Yeah, talk about a great timing. mean, you guys were really visionary looking ahead there. I'm sure there's no way you could have known there was going to be a massive pandemic, but yeah. Mark Kilby (27:20) Yeah, yeah, it came out late 2018. No, no. Brian (27:32) It was very timely when that happened to have that knowledge available for folks. Mark Kilby (27:36) Yeah, were, well, I want to add, we were never in the mindset that every organization should go remote. That was never ever our intention. But for those who wanted to go remote, that's what that book was for. Brian (27:44) Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. And you know, I know that's not our, not really what we, we focused on the, the podcast here, but I did want to just kind of dip into that a little bit for folks, just in case that is a topic that's of interest to anyone here listening as well. If you're really looking for information in that area, strongly encourage that book for, for you again, from chaos to successful distributed agile teams. And we'll put a link to it in the show notes so people can find it so they can, you know, find your work and. to follow up and any last thoughts here before we close it out? Mark Kilby (28:26) Yeah, so I would say whatever you're struggling with, step back from that. I don't care if it's remote work. I don't care if it's a career challenge, but step back and look at what are the patterns that you're seeing and how can you inspect and adapt for those patterns. That's an agile mindset. Brian (28:47) I love that. Yeah, it tends to follow that if we put to practice these things we're teaching, you know, and talking about and trying to do in our organizations now and kind of apply that to other areas of our life that, you know, we're going to see similar results. So, I really appreciate you coming on. this has been a great conversation. And, and, as I said, I know, Mark, there's going to be lots of people listening who are just going to eat this up because, you know, if you're in that position, You know, you're looking for any kind of help that you can get. So I hope this is really helpful to folks and I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge in this area. Mark Kilby (29:22) Thanks, Brian, for having me on. Brian (29:25) Absolutely.

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What does it take to be an effective Scrum Master? In this episode, Brian Milner and Gary K. Evans, author of The Effective Scrum Master, explore the nuanced role of Scrum Masters, the importance of people skills, and the shift from efficiency to effectiveness. Overview Join Brian Milner as he chats with Agile coach and author Gary K. Evans about the essential qualities of an effective Scrum Master. From fostering self-organizing teams to balancing proactive leadership with people-centered strategies, this conversation unpacks the skills and mindsets needed to thrive in the role. Whether you’re new to Scrum or a seasoned pro, this episode offers fresh perspectives and practical advice for taking your Agile expertise to the next level. References and resources mentioned in the show: Gary K. Evans The Effective Scrum Master: Advancing Your Craft by Gary K Evans Join the Agile Mentors Community Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Certified ScrumMaster® Training and Scrum Certification Advanced Certified ScrumMaster® Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Gary K. Evans is a seasoned Agile Coach and author of The Effective Scrum Master, with over 30 years of experience transforming Fortune 100 and 500 companies through Lean-Agile practices. Known for his expertise in building high-performing teams and training over 15,000 professionals, Gary brings a unique focus on people-centered solutions to complex organizational challenges. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors. We are back and it's another episode of the Agile Mentors podcast. We're getting towards the end of the year. I am here with you, as always, Brian Milner. And today I have a very special guest with me, Mr. Gary K. Evans is with us. Welcome in, Gary. Gary (00:17) Thank you, Brian. It's great to be here. Brian (00:19) Very glad to have Gary with us. Gary is an agile coach. He's a lean consultant. He owns his own company called Evanetics, but he is also the author of a newly published book that came out this summer. It's called The Effective Scrum Master. And it really is a comprehensive guide. It's a really interesting read. So I thought we'd have him on to talk to us about. what that means, an effective scrum master. So scrum master is this episode, I think it's gonna be really a special one for you. So Gary, let's start with that question. When you say an effective scrum master, what is an effective scrum master? Gary (00:56) In my experience, I've worked with a lot of Scrum Masters who go through the motions, they understand the events, they focus on how to run these Scrum events. But the teams flounder and they struggle with what should I do next? How do I anticipate things? And the Scrum Masters themselves often get very frustrated. One of the complaints that I hear, especially from early to mid-career Scrum Masters is I have this anxiety. How do I know that my team is operating as efficient, as efficiently and effectively as they can because they focus so much on efficiency. So this idea of effectiveness really is much more important. In fact, John Kern, one of the co-authors of the Agile Manifesto, who wrote the foreword for my book, he focused in on that word effective because we spend so much of our energies trying to be efficient. that we aren't accomplishing what we need to do, which is to build self-organizing, mature teams. And that's really the focus of my book. Brian (02:01) That's an awesome distinction, I think, because I like that a lot. There's a conversation that I will have sometimes in class about how that drive or search for trying to be not effective, sorry, what was the other word that you used? Efficient, sorry, sorry, just slipped my mind, ADHD. But the efficient kind of quotient there I think is... Gary (02:18) Efficient. Brian (02:27) something that in business in the business world today is a highly visible term. It's something that everyone seems to think is needed. But, you know, that really dates back to sort of the assembly line and efficiency experts that would stand behind you with a stop clock and try to get you to do something, you know, point two seconds faster so that it would total up to, you know, more productivity over the course of the day. But that's not the kind of work we do. Gary (02:56) I love the fact that you've mentioned that that was really the Frederick Winslow Taylor scientific management approach. And it was very much based on this idea of efficiency. But I have seen so many teams and as an agile coach, I've had multiple experiences of teams that are very, very efficient at going in the wrong direction entirely. They've lost their focus on true north. They don't understand what it is they're actually supposed to do. They think that the Scrum Guide, 14 pages in the Scrum Guide, is their Bible. And that's all that they need to know. And nothing could be further from the truth. Brian (03:37) Yeah. Yeah. And to me that, you're talking about efficiency versus effectiveness. You know, if we were a company that was trying to create a new drug to cure some disease, you know, I want effective. I don't want efficient. I don't want someone, I don't want to produce a million pills that don't work. I want to produce, you I'd rather produce one that works, you know. Gary (03:59) Exactly. Brian (04:05) And that seems to be kind of something that I think a lot of teams are missing today. Gary (04:09) It does indeed. Brian (04:10) Well, good. I like that distinction. I think that's a good distinction and that's a good place for us to start to think about this role as being kind of more effective. I think that they're sort of, I don't know, I'm kind of curious what your take is on this. Is it a marketing problem? Is it an education problem? Why is there so much confusion, I think, about what a scrum master, what a good scrum master is? Gary (04:41) That's a really deep and broad question. Part of it is that in the beginning, when Scrum was introduced into the community and was just beginning to become known, there were two attributes of Scrum Masters that were repeated again and again and again. That was you became a servant leader for the team and you removed impediments. Brian (04:44) Just a light casual one here. Gary (05:09) Unfortunately, most people stopped at that point. And they didn't realize that this, the Scrum Master role, and I'll admit, I take a very expansive view of the Scrum Master role because I've been doing this since 1993, basically, 1994. And I've learned through making lots and lots of mistakes. And the idea that All we have to do is be a servant. Well, what does that mean to be a servant leader? Nobody ever really defined it. I actually wrote an essay a number of years ago on what it meant to not be a servant leader so that I could understand by contradiction what it was that I should be doing. I called it the top 10 scrum master crimes. And really, a lot of them really had to do with crimes because it's very easy for a scrum master to start to merge into making decisions for the team that the scrum master should not be making. Now, there are times when a scrum master should direct the team, should make decisions for the team if the team is not qualified to make certain decisions because they're just too new. But this idea of being a certain leader There's so much more to that. In my expansive view of the Scrum Master role, it is not a process role first. It's a people role. And to be an effective Scrum Master, you have to be an effective people person. I've worked with so many teams and coached Scrum Masters. Scrum Masters just did not like people. They weren't people persons. And the teams responded accordingly. So. A lot of the coaching that I do with my Scrum Masters is you've got to reach deep. You've got to be able to get into people's lives rather than hold them off, you know. And so a lot of it has to do with that. Brian (07:10) I love that. I wholeheartedly concur with that. I've talked on this podcast a little bit about how it seems like we've lost the focus of that first line of the Agile Manifesto, individuals and interactions over process and tools. And I mentioned when I go to Agile conferences sometimes, I feel like the majority of the talks that I see and hear are process and tools talks rather than know, individuals and interactions talks. And I can't agree more. I think that's really a focus for us as Scrum Masters is the individuals and interactions portion, the people portion. You know, our teams are made up of people and if we're not good with helping understand how people work together, we're kind of really missing the value of what it is we deliver to the teams, I think. Gary (08:04) And Brian, the people are all different. And to have a one size fits all because the scrum guy says do X, and Z. Well, that'll work for some people, but it will not work for others. And it may even build resentment within the team because they feel that they're being treated unfairly. The focus, the theme of my book and the reason I wrote the book. Brian (08:06) Right, exactly. Gary (08:30) is that I had seen so many teams that were floundering under Scrum Masters who really didn't understand their own role. And I came up from my experience, I defined four different categories that helped to elaborate what the Scrum Master should be if they want to be effective. And I labeled those as Sherpa, Shepherd, Sheepdog, and Diagnostician. I couldn't really think of a word. I started with an S for diagnosticians. But I have a strong medical background, so diagnostician really helped because the sherpa is the expert. And to be an effective scrum master, you have to be an expert, not at scrum, but at agile. We really want, I want my scrum masters to be agile masters. And as a coach, I'm constantly pushing them. How are you improving your craft? And what is involved in that craft? So you've got to be an expert. Brian (08:58) Hahaha. Gary (09:26) Now for a new scrum master, that's a contradiction in terms. You can't be an expert if you are just at the beginning of the journey. But there are things that you can do. And I discussed this. In order to from exposure, you can gain experience. And from experience, you can generate expertise. And so that's the first one. If ultimately you need to be a master of Agile. Secondly, a Sherpa and then a... a Sherpa and then a Shepherd, you have to be able to guide the team. And you can't guide somebody if you haven't been through that path before. So this is where the issue of longevity, education, and just exposure and experience with different teams on different projects. This is where the maturity comes and you start to develop a depth of understanding. But then there's the hardest part, the hardest persona of the scrum master is the sheepdog. This is where you are the protector of the team. And so many scrum masters fold in this area because a threat will come either from management or from within the team or somebody outside the team like a product owner. And the scrum master doesn't understand how to protect his or her own team. I'll share a little war story with you that is in the book. I had a product owner who one morning came in and just started ripping through several of my team members. I don't know what happened at that point. I stepped between him and the team and I said, do not take another step forward. I was ready to defend my team physically. It didn't come to that. And later I learned the reason for why he was so upset. But if you're going to be a sheepdog and protect your team, it may require personal sacrifice. It may require professional sacrifice. And this is the area where so many scrum masters, they can't deal with that part because they don't have that confidence. So you've got the Sherpa who's the expert, the shepherd who is the guide. The sheepdog who's the protector and finally the diagnostician who is the healer. Things are going to go awry and you have to have a way of diagnosing what the root cause of the problem is. And this is where the issue of metrics and understanding your team members, building a rapport with your team members that quite often is extremely intimate. I have had team members, I have a series of questions I ask all my team members so that I understand their background and such and also things that I need to be aware of. And I will ask them, do you have any medical issues or other accommodations that we might need to consider for you? This is an issue of respect so that we don't put somebody in an uncomfortable situation. It's a strictly private conversation. I've had people share with me that they have a drug problem. that they're caring for an ailing parent, that they're going through a divorce, all kinds of different issues that come out. And we work out special signals so that if they're having an episode someday, they just give me that signal. And I know that I need to either give them space or give them some special consideration. This is what I mean by the people issue. You've got to get to the point where you allow people's lives to splash onto you and you get wet with their issues. And yet you still have to maintain your autonomy and separation in order to work with the whole team together. The Scrum Master role is extremely complex from my perspective because it involves people, as you say, individuals and their interactions. That's where we have to start. Brian (13:33) I agree. And that's a great call out to say, to talk about there, just the idea that, you these are, these are individuals, not, they're not robots, you know, like they're not AIs yet. These are human beings and they have lives outside of work. They have things that affect them. And if they're going through a divorce, like you said, then you think that might affect their work life? Well, of course it will. Cause they're a human, right? And that's gonna... Gary (13:43) Right. Yes. Brian (13:57) that's going to affect their, their mood that day. That's going to affect, you know, how productive they are. It's going to affect lots of things. And, and, you know, we, we've talked here on the podcast a little bit about making accommodations for people with different, neurodivergent traits like ADHD or, autism or other things like that. And, know, I've always loved the idea of, know, putting people in the best position to be successful, you know, trying to understand what is. unique about them, strengths and weaknesses, so that you can help them to be put in a position that they can shine, right? They can really contribute in their own unique way. And we have to allow for both those strengths and weaknesses. We have to help them with the weaknesses. We have to put them in a position to share their strengths. Gary (14:49) And this leads to a slightly different topic if I can move up a little bit. The scrum master role is an endangered species right now. And there's a reason for that. There's several reasons for that. One of which is what we've been talking about. So many scrum masters are not people persons. And as a result, the teams are not accomplishing what the organization needs. And therefore the scrum master is regarded as overhead. Brian (14:52) Yeah, please, please, please. Hmm, yeah. Gary (15:19) as ineffective. And frankly, that's correct. There are currently, if you look at the Scrum Alliance and Scrum.org, I got the figures from these companies as of the beginning of this year, there are about two million Scrum Masters in the world right They're not all equally effective, Many of them are PSN1s from Scrum.org and there are like 625,000 of those, that type of thing. And then you get 39,000 PSN2s and then you get a thousand or so PSN3s. You can see the drop off there, just huge drop off. And the certification issues lead people to think that they're a Scrum master. Scrum two days or? An online examination doesn't prepare you. It simply doesn't. We've not done a good job of helping people understand through these major certification roles. that this is a starting point, but it's not going to make you effective. And part of it is it's become commoditized. And so we have this issue of lots and lots of scrummasters, most of whom really are not people persons and most of whom don't understand how to deal with a team and build a team rather than just an assembly of individuals. I've taken over teams that have been floundering. I've done this multiple times. And on day one, it's a series of isolated individuals. That's the best that they could have. Because there was no cohesion that could be found. And that always takes me a lot of effort and a lot of time to figure out how can I find cohesion within the team. So it's exhausting. The Scrum Master rule is really exhausting at times. And if someone's not tired at the end of the day, they're not doing it right. Brian (17:22) Yeah, I really am in alignment with what you're saying here. And I've thought about this issue a lot as well, and just the idea that we seem to find ourselves in a situation where, as you said, there's a lot of people who have that certification. And as someone who gives people certifications, I have to take my own part in that. I have to accept my own role and what that plays in it. But I think that you're right to... The training is necessary, right? You have to understand the basics. You have to understand these things before you can do anything else. However, I think that the disservice that the industry has done is to make this proclamation that if someone is certified, that they are ready to lead. And that really is what a Scrum Master is, is a leader in the organization. They're a leader for the Scrum process in the organization. And that's just... Gary (17:55) Yes. Yes. Brian (18:23) not true, right? It just takes more ongoing mentoring and coaching for that person to get to a place where they are really a, you know, what we would call a change agent, right? They are there to, you I always like to use the term infect the organization. They're there to spread and infect this mindset, this philosophy. And if we don't understand it ourselves, if we're not really living that philosophy, If we want our team to be experimentation based and we don't experiment ourself and we don't kind of demonstrate to them what it looks like to experiment, to try things, to fail, to figure out why that didn't work and then apply a new change and say, let's try something different. If we don't demonstrate that, not just tell them, but demonstrate it, they're never going to get that. They're going to stay, as you said, a collection of individuals. And I think that's, to me, that seems to be one of the big issues today with Scrum Masters and with Scrum in general is just that we have, you know, in opposition to your book, ineffective Scrum Masters that aren't really helping people see what Scrum should be. Gary (19:41) Exactly. And you've touched on what I call the four E's, which are exposure, experience, expertise, all built through experimentation. And you use that word to experiment. We need to experiment. But experimentation takes courage. Now that is one of the Scrum values. But when you get a young person or a new Scrum master who's in a role in an organization that may have certain, let's say, unsafe environment and cultural factors. It's very difficult for most people to build that courage to say, we've got to change this and become agents of change. Now, obviously they can, they should be diplomatic. They should be respectful, but they should also be persistent. But being able to see that requires a vision. You have to be able to be able to look around and see where are the big problems that we have? Why should I rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic if the ship is sinking? Brian (20:41) you Gary (20:45) And so having that vision, again, comes from maturity. And the Scrum Masters that I work with, I push them pretty hard because I want them to grow. And every one of them has thanked me. But they didn't thank me during while it was happening. Brian (21:06) Ha Yeah. Yeah, I can understand that. mean, we, you know, one of the analogies I'll use there is like, we, a lot of us that have gone through the process and become a trainer will say it was hell while we went through it, but we look back on it and think that was necessary. We needed to go through that. now that we've gone through it we're on the other side, that was a necessary component of becoming an effective trainer was really seeing it up close and personal and seeing how other people do it. So I completely get that. Gary (21:31) Exactly. Brian (21:36) I want to ask you a question here that I know this is a loaded question. I get this question all the time. But I thought it might be interesting to hear your perspective on this from the effective Scrum Master perspective. People constantly ask, well, what does a Scrum Master do all day? Because when you look at the Scrum Guide and you look at the things that we have as responsibilities, You know, the two main responsibilities we have that are ongoing is to make sure events happen and make sure that the time boxes are kept according to the Scrum Guide. But I try to tell people there's a lot that goes on between those events. It's not just about the events, right? There's a lot that we do. just help our audience. For those people who are listening and don't really have a clear picture of what a Scrum Master does, just give us some samples of what you see as activity that effective Scrum Masters would take on a regular basis. Gary (22:30) What an interesting qualitative question. Brian (22:33) Ha ha ha. Gary (22:34) And I say qualitative on purpose. What does a scrum master do? What a scrum master should do is listen, listen a lot, observe, even if you're remote and virtual. You should be monitoring the Slack channel. You should be having video sessions. You should be attending team discussions whenever you can, but not only to listen, but to be the last one to speak. This is a big issue. So a scrum master often is considered to be doing nothing. But what the scrum master is doing is listening, watching, being the last to speak so that he or she does not taint the conversation among the team members. And it's very easy for that to happen. They should be compiling. team metrics. And I have a very lengthy section in the book on metrics, not only velocity and burn down charts and that type of thing, but a number of other other metrics that I've developed over the years for my own teams. So that the Scrum Master and the team can understand their own performance. They should be training, obviously, as a Sherpa, as an expert. They should be conveying knowledge to the team and they should be teaching every time they're talking to somebody, they should be teaching someone. So it's not a prescribed set of activities in my estimation of what a scrum master does. And I'm going to I'm going to use an analogy here. And it's going to it's going to offend some people because they're going to say, that's a terrible analogy. Well, it's actually a good analogy if you take it as that. The scrum master is like a parent. and needs to nurture the family. How does a parent, what does a parent do? They listen, they observe, they teach, they guide. Sometimes they have to protect, sometimes they have to discipline. And these are all skills that make for a good effective scrum master. So as I say, it's a qualitative issue. But a person who cannot parent well, I'm not saying the team are children, I'm saying they're your family. You need to parent your family. And you need to, as an experienced person who hopefully has a bit more experience and exposure and wisdom. and has better insight into how the world works, even the world of the organization, the Scrum Master has to be able to convey that on a day-to-day, hour-to-hour basis. It is not a part-time job. It is a full-time, exhausting, boots-on-the-ground position that many people just cannot fill. It's sad, but not everybody can do everything. Coming back to the certifications again, job ads always want to know you need to have a CSM or a PSM. You need to have an ACSM, type of thing, advanced certified Scrum Master. These are proxies that companies use because they don't know what a Scrum Master does. They don't know how to qualify it. So they try to quantify it through a certification. And what they have are two million Scrum Masters. who are certified in the world. How many of those are really good? Not all of Brian (26:06) Right. Gary (26:07) So the reason that I dwell on this a little bit, Brian, is my book is there to help people understand. not only the limits, but the expanse of what they should do. And there are limits to what a scrum master should do, but there's also an expansive view of they need to do more than just be a servant leader and remove impediments. Those are important. That's not the end of it. Brian (26:33) I agree. It's kind of interesting because it's a delicate balance, right? Because it's sort of like, you know, there's not a recipe. There's not a clear, hey, here's the 10 things that you do every day. And just when you come in the morning, check this list off and do these things, right? There's not that. But I think that the other mistake that I see some Scrum Masters make sometimes is that they treat it as being a purely reactive kind of position where I'm going to sit back and wait for things. And then when something happens, then I'll, then I'll jump in and I'll do something based on what someone else has done, which I think is a mistake as well. We we're proactive. We were very proactive to, to make an impact and make a difference. And when we recognize something's needed, we, got to jump in there. We got to get in there and do something about it when it's needed. you wouldn't want to have a coach of a team who set back and just, you know, Gary (27:26) It is. Brian (27:30) waited for someone to come to them and ask them for questions. There's no strategy. There's no paying attention to fundamentals. All those things would kind of go out the window if that coach isn't more proactive with his approach towards his or her approach toward the team. Gary (27:45) Exactly. That's a wonderful analogy because I was a soccer coach as well. I'm a soccer player as well. And when I'm coaching youth or that type of thing, I have to teach them how to use this sideline, the touch line in order as a virtual defender. need to have been on the field to know how to teach them how to operate on the field. And if I can't get involved with them, if I just wait until they make a mistake, they're going to make a lot of mistakes. Brian (27:48) Hmm. Gary (28:14) And you've touched on this idea of the passive scrum master. Scrum master is not a passive role. I had a product owner, one of the best that I've ever worked with in my career. We were having a very heated conversation one day, as we often did. And he said, Evans, you're an activist scrum master. And I had never heard that before. And I reflected on it a little bit and I said, Chuck, you're right, I am. But not everybody has that kind of personality. So each scrimmaster has to identify where they may need to improve, maybe some of their assertiveness, some others need to learn how to hold back. It's a learning curve. It's a learning 24-hour-a-day learning session. We're all different. teams are different, the Scrum Masters are different. And as we get more experience and develop more expertise, we handle things differently as a result of that growth. And my role as a coach is to grow the Scrum Masters, to grow the teams. And I've loved it because I love working with people. So you get to work with people, you get to solve problems and you get to see tangible results in people's careers. What more could you ask? Brian (29:36) Right, right. I'm with you. I'm right there with you. I can't agree more. Well, this has been a great discussion. just want to, you know, we mentioned already your book is called The Effective Scrum Master. We're to put links in our show notes to that if people want to go and find that and just, but you can find it on Amazon. Gary K. Evans, The Effective Scrum Master. Gary, how can people find out if they want to get in touch with you or find out more about your work, how can they get in touch with Gary (29:37) Thank Well, appreciate that. I am currently putting up, there is a, we have a website. It's called effectivescrummaster.com. I'll repeat that. Effectivescrummaster.com. There's a sign up link there. It's the page is just under construction at this point. It's live, but people can go up and they can enter an email to be notified when we start to make changes. There'll be some free information there, some resources that they can download. We've got a plan on how we're going to roll this out, but that's just beginning. And so I hope that people will go and visit that and hopefully we'll be able to develop a relationship and they'll be able to reach out to me through that website. Again, effectivescrummaster.com. Brian (30:51) Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Gary, for making the time. It's been a really great conversation and I really appreciate you making the time to come on the show. Gary (30:59) Brian, this has been my privilege and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

You can go anywhere: sit in your home, in your garden, you can be at work, and if you sincerely repeat the names of God and listen carefully, then you'll have this sense of direct communion with the Divine, with Kṛṣṇa. One of the teachers from antiquity said, "How focused should we be?" You should imagine yourself going to the ocean with a kuśa straw. It's got a little flat area on it, and you could use that as a tool to empty the ocean, to drain the ocean. How long do you think it would take, Braja Rāsa Bhāvana, to use a little straw, one drop at a time, to drain the entire Pacific Ocean? A long time. And he said, be prepared for that. If you want success, approach the simple process with such focus and determination: "I'm going to sit here with this one straw until I drain the whole ocean." Now there's another story connected with this, and this is what the great teachers talk about. There was a little bird. She lived by the seashore, and she laid her eggs along the sandy beach. And one day, the ocean personified came, and in a mood of being mean, stole her eggs. With a sweep of his hand, a wave, he reached out and grabbed them, pulled them into his waters, and then chuckled as the little bird seemed distressed. Isn't that mean? Say yes. So then the little bird puffed out her chest and walked to the ocean, even though she was such a tiny creature. She said, "You give my eggs back. That's my offspring. My duty is to protect them." And the ocean said, "Good luck, you're not getting them back." A bully. So she said, "I'll show you," and my mother used to say, "Never underestimate the power of 'I'll show you.' So she sat there at the ocean. She began to peck out the water of the ocean, saying, "I'm going to drain you one drop at a time." And what did the ocean say? "Hahaha, good luck, it'll never happen." An audience started to gather around to watch her determination. All the creatures who saw her trying to drain the ocean began to talk amongst themselves, and it spread from one forest to the next. All the birds were talking, and then the mongooses picked up on it. They live under the trees, they passed it on, and they started talking about it, and it spread so far that the very powerful, heroic bird Garuḍa—we saw a license plate on the way here that said "Garuḍa," so I thought I'd tell the story—Garuḍa heard about it. Who is Garuḍa? He is the powerful carrier of Lord Vishnu. He came down to see his sister bird and he landed there and said, "What's going on?" She said, "I'm going to drain this ocean." And he said to the ocean, "You give the eggs back or I'll dry you up myself. With my wingspan, I'll flap so hard that the air will evaporate you now." The ocean then became frightened because Garuḍa is not an ordinary bird, and gave the eggs back. That's a story the ancient teachers tell. In the practice of chanting the mantra, if we approach it like that, willing to peck out every drop— you can imagine it when you're chanting one mantra: "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare," and if you like, you can use beads. Normally, they have 108 beads on each one. If you hold on to each one, you say each bead is one drop, and I'll keep going till the whole ocean's drained. This is the idea of what Kapiladeva said: be willing to do this for a long time. Not, "I'll try it for a week, and if it works, maybe." You have to get enough knowledge intervention in your mind to see material world is as all risk, no gain, and spiritual life as all gain, no risk. But you have to be all in, to be successful. If you do that, and you practice in that way, then very soon you'll get help that you never imagined you would get. And that's something Kṛṣṇa says throughout the Bhagavad-gītā. "I'm there to help you. As soon as you show your determination, then I'll be there to intervene in your life and help you in ways that you could never imagine." (excerpt from the talk)

ONE BAD RERUN - Episode 124: I Am My Own Worst Enemy! Plus, Guest Chuck BryantBiz and Theresa try to figure out why we can be so mean to ourselves. Maybe it's because we're jerks? HA HA HA. [Tears.] Plus, Biz can't have chickens, Theresa is DONE with solo-parenting after ten days with Jesse out of the country, and we talk with Chuck Bryant, one of the hosts of the Stuff You Should Know podcast, about adoption and the stuff he hopes his child will know. Also, we announce the launch of our parenting merit badges project! Wooooo!Go to MaximumFun.org/join to support One Bad Mother in its final year!Share a personal or commercial message on the show! Details at MaximumFun.org/Jumbotron.Visit our Linktree for our website, merch, and more! https://linktr.ee/onebadmotherYou can suggest a topic or a guest for an upcoming show by sending an email to onebadmother@maximumfun.org.Show MusicSummon the Rawk, Kevin MacLeod (www.incompetech.com)Ones and Zeros, Awesome, Beehive SessionsMom Song, Adira Amram, Hot Jams For TeensTelephone, Awesome, Beehive SessionsMama Blues, Cornbread Ted and the ButterbeansMental Health Resources:Therapy for Black Girls – Therapyforblackgirls.comDr. Jessica Clemmens – https://www.askdrjess.comBLH Foundation – borislhensonfoundation.orgThe Postpartum Support International Warmline – 1-800-944-4773 (1-800-944-4PPD)The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) Helpline – 1-800-662-4357 (1-800-662-HELP)Suicide Prevention Hotline: Call or chat. They are here to help anyone in crisis. Dial 988 for https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org and there is a chat option on the website.Crisis Text Line: Text from anywhere in the USA (also Canada and the UK) to text with a trained counselor. A real human being.USA text 741741Canada text 686868UK text 85258Website: https://www.crisistextline.orgNational Sexual Assault: Call 800.656.HOPE (4673) to be connected with a trained staff member from a sexual assault service provider in your area.https://www.rainn.orgNational Domestic Violence Hotline:https://www.thehotline.org/help/Our advocates are available 24/7 at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) in more than 200 languages. All calls are free and confidential.They suggest that if you are a victim and cannot seek help, ask a friend or family member to call for you.Teletherapy Search: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/online-counseling

Kiera is a guest on Dr. Gallagher's Podcast in this crossover episode! There is a lot of important ground covered here, including how to establish the ideal practice flow, the differences in consulting between speciality and general practices, why being a human being feels like a lost art, how to hire the best people, and more. Episode resources: Listen to Dr. Gallagher's Podcast: Apple, Spotify, YouTube Reach out to Tiff, Britt, and Dana Tune Into DAT's Monthly Webinar Practice Momentum Group Consulting Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Become Dental A-Team Platinum! Review the podcast Transcript: Brendan (00:02.346) Of the Dental A Team, this is Kiera Dent, right? So this is, I love that it's dent because there's dental dentin, part of the tooth and stuff. So it's just perfect. It really worked well. And you have a consulting agency, right? Dental A Team. And how many years have you been in around?   Kiera Dent (00:16.95) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (00:25.494) Thank you.   Kiera Dent (00:30.976) Yeah, so we've, the company is almost eight years old. She's about to have her eighth birthday in November, but yeah, it's been fun. It was a complete random idea that I came up with to start it, honestly, to help a bunch of dental students and here we are. So it's been a really fun place to be.   Brendan (00:49.738) Two more months and eight years, congrats!   Kiera Dent (00:51.796) I know. Thank you. Thank you. It came from, I worked at Midwestern University's Dental College for three years while my husband did pharmacy school. And one of the students straight out of school said, hey, Kiera, I want you to come help me start my practice. And I said, my gosh, like, absolutely. I've always wanted to be a practice owner. I was a dental assistant and a treatment coordinator and an office manager prior. And so I went and I helped her start her practice and   We took our practice from 500,000 to 2.4 million in nine months and opened our second location. And then I thought, my gosh, like if I could help her do this, there's all my other like favorite dental students. Like I'm sure I could probably be a resource and a help for them. And so that's really what spurred the consulting company. I had never worked with a consultant before. And then I started helping practices and adding, you know, 25,000 of production to their schedules very quickly. I was adding, increasing case acceptance to a hundred percent.   within one day and I just thought, okay, there's something about this and it doesn't have to be hard, but I'm gonna be a resource for all those dentists in school because you guys go to school and you're so passionate about what you're doing, but then there's the business side of it. And so if I could be a resource, a trusted resource, knowing what you're learning in school, so that way you guys can be so successful, positively impact your world, help your community, help your team, help your patients, and you guys are living your best lives.   That really is what spurred me into being a consultant. So here we are all with the love. have no clue what consultants should do. I just keep making up what I believe my students from Midwestern would want to have and just keep coming from love of you guys, just doing the best to support dentistry and us supporting you in that vision.   Brendan (02:30.004) Excellent. And so you're not at Midwestern anymore. That was only in the beginning for those years. So roughly eight years ago.   Kiera Dent (02:33.068) Mm -mm. Yep. Yep. I worked there for three years. No, so three years. And then I went and I worked in Colorado for two years. And then I started the company in 2016. Yeah, 2016. So it was great. It was a good time. And here we are now, eight years later.   Brendan (02:48.904) And in Colorado, that was the practice that you brought them from X to that would be roughly five X. Wow. Well done. Well done. So they started for a year there. You knew them. You had a good rapport, good relationship with them over a year or two. You grew it from that. then you're like, and that's when you decided, OK, let's scale. How did you take that next step from there? So it was just you working at her practice. Right. And then from there, you said.   Kiera Dent (02:55.008) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Thanks.   you   Kiera Dent (03:08.384) Totally.   Kiera Dent (03:13.344) Mm -hmm. Yep.   Brendan (03:16.136) So you don't work with her anymore. was like a see you later. I'm going to figure it better.   Kiera Dent (03:18.072) No. It was incredible. And we had such a good run. And I have to give mad kudos to her as a dentist, because I think we were really a dynamic duo. I came in with amazing like management and TC skills. We both didn't know what we were doing. And I think that that's part of doctors opening practices. But kudos to her for bringing me on because she knew I knew pieces she didn't know how to do.   but yeah, it was, I think more her vision. We both were very gung -ho. We wanted to serve more. We wanted to have a bigger impact and footprint. And so it was, we got this practice going and then we bought our second location and then there ended up getting like seven practices all together. But things I learned from that was, it was over the course of like five, six, I ended up leaving. She continued. and it was something very interesting that those are like sexy numbers to put up on a scoreboard and.   Brendan (04:00.019) In two years?   Kiera Dent (04:12.268) Everybody always has the bright eyes of like, my gosh, like how did you do that? But I think my obsession has come, like her and I were both on like death row. Like we were working 2 a to 10 p It was insanity to try and get that success. And while yes, there's sexy numbers on the board, we both realized that there's more to life than what we were doing. And are we gonna just like slay and try and drive this through or is there maybe something more to this? so yes, it was, we did part ways and I'm just so proud of everything that she created.   But I, like one, my marriage, my life, all of those things were falling apart. And I realized me traveling back and forth from Reno Tahoe area to Colorado all the time was just really hard on my marriage. I wasn't seeing my husband. I was completely anorexic. I was like 98 pounds and I'm 5 '8". And it was just, everything felt like it was deteriorating. And so that was where it had to be like, let's do a step back. Her life was deteriorating. And I thought...   there has to be a better way to success than what we've done. Like, yes, we've got sexy numbers to throw up on the board. Yes, we've got all these cool things, but is there not a better way that we can do this where you can have an incredible family and you can have incredible numbers and you can have a thriving business. And that really has become my passion and obsession is helping more dentists live a fulfilled life, hitting up those sexy big numbers or whatever they want to do, but still maintain their life, their identity, their freedom is really what I'm obsessed with within our company and our culture.   and really helping dentists get that life.   Brendan (05:41.89) yeah, and that's such a great pitch to where it's let's let's seize that life that we dreamed of again. love that now in where it started to get a little rocky there speaking of Colorado, but while it started to happen was that the first two years when you were there was that within the five six years when she scaled to seven or so practices first two   Kiera Dent (05:47.68) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (05:51.634) Hahaha   Kiera Dent (05:55.564) Mm   Kiera Dent (05:59.692) No, so that was my first two years. Yeah, absolutely. And both of us were there. And I think that that happens, right? You've got all the student debt. I used to call her 2.5, like when she's hunched over, not like good ergonomics. I'm like, hey, 2.5, we're 2.5 million debt. Like with student loans, the practice acquisition, within our first couple of months of owning the practice, our building was being torn down. So we had to move our patient base to another location, build up another practice. So   And I think oftentimes it's how people come out, right? Like you've got a lot of debt, you've been sitting in residency for so long, or you've been in school for so long or whatever it is, or you're an associate and you feel like, okay, I bought this practice. I think there's this like innate desire to just hit the ground running, but we forget that that can only sustain for so long. Like we are human bodies, we are not human robots. And realizing that there's...   so much that can happen. We also were very naive. We did not have systems in place and we just kept adding more fuel to our fire that was already burning and blazing bigger than we were. And so we got to a good place. We were hiring other doctors, but I think that that's where my obsession has come of, like, let's give systems. And I just got off a podcast with one of our doctors that we work with and her and her husband are kind of thriving and jamming the same way I was.   But what they've done differently is we like, we're really specific of let's get all these systems in place before we buy our second location. And like, let's slow to grow rather than like fly to die. Like it was a very different model and they're thriving and they're happy and their marriage is incredible. There's different, like both are available to us. I think I'd prefer, let's take the, take the sustainable route that's very doable that keeps your passion alive rather than killing you off at the beginning.   Brendan (07:46.548) Yeah, yeah. So when you translate into systems and processes, I, so coming from a clinician, a provider background system and processes, I have an idea, you know, like the system I'm thinking of is like the computer or no, but really in a practice setting, if I could just have some insight to what you mean behind that developing systems and processes before you buy that second practice, what were some of those systems, if I can, if I can know.   Kiera Dent (07:51.178) Of course.   Kiera Dent (08:01.321) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (08:06.102) Sure.   Kiera Dent (08:16.015) Of course, yeah. And this is what I just geek out on. This is why we have the podcast. It's like tactical, practical with ease. So it's like, do you have a process for how you're doing our billing process? And in Dental A Team, I actually made 12 categories that kind of fall within the 12 months of systems to have. So there's your office management. You've got your practice profitability and your numbers. We have our dental assistants and how we set up our rooms and our operatories. We have our handoffs. We have our   like how we hire and onboard people. We have our operations manual completed. We have our treatment tracker and case acceptance. We have our hygiene protocols to put those into play to make sure our hygiene teams diagnosing and we're treating patients the same way. We have our doctor optimization where we're really working on like, what are the clinical skill sets of our doctors and are we maximizing their skills within? And so those are what I mean by systems. And I'll be completely honest. We were like just two girls flying by the seat of our pants.   So like we did not have a process for billing. We did not have a process for scheduling. It was just like dump it in and we'll figure out how to do it versus like you can have, I mean, I've added multiple millions to people's schedules just by having block scheduling with ease and they're out by four o 'clock, they're out by three o 'clock. We're putting up really hard, like great numbers. The patients are happy, the team is happy. Like literally I have a practice that I took from 2 million to 4 .5 million just by changing their block scheduling.   And so it's like, these are the simple systems that maybe you don't have to go buy another practice unless a DSO or something like that is what you're trying to do. But let's make sure that we have those, because I've also gone to offices and they're like, we're completely maxed out on our space and I find an operatory there. We don't actually have to go buy a bigger building. We can keep it here. We can systematize it here. We can maximize, like, are we doing our handoffs? Are we collecting before they leave? Are we having proper treatment plans?   Are we tracking our case acceptance? Are we watching the things that like our hygiene teams doing? What's our hygienists producing per hour? Are there ways that we can help our patients more? What's our morning huddle? Those systems in place make it clockwork where it's very predictable magic behind the scenes. Like we know we will have magic in our practice because we have systems in place. And maybe we don't have to go for the multi -practices unless that's our drive and our desire, then by all means, let's do it.   Kiera Dent (10:37.408) but let's make it to where we can stamp it out. I promise you, like you look at McDonald's, think that's the easiest one. They were the crowning jewel of systems. They were not stamping this out haphazardly. They were looking for the efficiency and making it to where each new place would have the same exact experience just in a different location. What's your experience and your practice and how can you go replicate that with ease is really what I mean by systems behind the scenes.   Brendan (10:43.572) Mmm.   Brendan (11:01.556) Yeah, and were you doing all this at Midwestern?   Kiera Dent (11:05.67) No. So at Midwestern, if you recall, I feel like I was your tooth lunch lady. I handed out all the teeth, the composite, the like all the things I don't know in the simulation center. So I worked with the first and second year students and helped with the radiology and all of that. But prior to that, I was a dental assistant, a treatment coordinator, a scheduler, a biller. I just wanted to get a discount on my husband's tuition. I'll be fully honest. And it just had to work out. So then I became this cute little tooth lunch lady. Like, here's your teeth, here's your composite, here's your bands.   Brendan (11:32.958) Hahaha   Kiera Dent (11:34.99) And then went and helped her in Colorado and then started helping other dentists just really.   Brendan (11:40.084) Yeah. And Midwestern, because there are two Midwesterns, there's Arizona and Illinois, right? You were in Arizona, was going to say, because Reno, Nevada. Are you still in Reno, Nevada?   Kiera Dent (11:43.262) Arizona. We are. Yep. So we still live here. My husband ditches residency here because my family lives over in California. So it was the closest location without paying California tax. Yeah.   Brendan (11:57.16) Wonderful wonderful and just just just step back to being at Midwestern have you ever seen it like a show or a movie or something where The guy or girl moves the plant that's in the shade into the light and then all of a sudden the flower blooms I Feel like that's where you moved yourself out of the shade into the light not to make the old figurative But I literally see like because because now you're killing it you're consulting with all these practices and stuff doing so no, that's a really   Kiera Dent (12:11.338) Yes.   Kiera Dent (12:22.262) Thank you.   Brendan (12:25.662) First of all, the story is incredible because you've to appreciate someone who takes that hop, skip and a jump gets into the environment. That's a maybe it's a risk and it just they blossom. that's, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to be like a radio show here, but I, know, I really seek for the optimism in people's lives. There's a lot of fear going on these days. There's a lot of skepticism, a lot of conspiracies, and it's really nice to find let's let's hone back in together and let's really get into the nitty gritty of the good things.   Kiera Dent (12:37.568) Thank you.   Brendan (12:54.898) and success stories. yeah, so that's just, wanted to touch that really there because I really appreciate that. You know, we need, we need risk takers and we need to admire those and understand how they did it. Okay. So moving on, can you just shout out your podcast on, so everyone knows?   Kiera Dent (12:55.308) Totally.   Kiera Dent (12:58.7) Thank you.   Kiera Dent (13:07.916) Yeah, of course. Yeah, we have the Dental A Team podcast. Gosh, I think I'm about up to, we might have surpassed our 900 mark and headed towards our 1000 mark of episodes. So definitely try to have a ton of resources for free out there. And for any dentists out there listening or students, like I love the students. Clearly I have a very soft spot in my heart for students and residents, people who want to grow. But if you go to our website, TheDentalATeam.com, we have our podcast link.   And literally you go and you type in anything, treatment planning, scheduling, verbiage for dropping insurance, like you name it. I probably have a podcast or two on them and all of our databases there for you. So trying really hard just to give back. and like you said, my goal is to positively impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible and just remind us of how like blessed we are to be able to change people's lives through dentistry. And, I truly believe that owning a practice should not be hard. It does not need to be hard. You can still have everything you want. So yeah.   Our podcast, The Dental A Team, love to have you there. Thank you for that shout out.   Brendan (14:10.314) Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Now continuing, if you can do me a favor and on your Instagram, the bio, if you can just change, I think you changed the name of your handle, your organization, the company, the podcast, that handle changed in your bio. I think it's, might've been an older handle, but you can't click it is what I mean. We just got to fix that. That'll help out your followers so that they can make the link between you and you know, and your consulting group. Just something I noticed, but yeah. So, so moving on for there.   Kiera Dent (14:12.897) Yes.   Kiera Dent (14:19.965) Mm   Kiera Dent (14:26.842) sure.   Kiera Dent (14:32.118) Yeah.   Thank you.   Brendan (14:37.852) So you have the pockets you have on providers and stuff. You just had Dr. Jason Auer back on. I just saw him last week at the Amos conference, which is pretty cool. And I had him on the podcast last year. That's a lot of fun. How often do you meet with providers, owners, DSOs versus private practices? I'm curious what the percentages are there. And then the percentages of providers versus do you ever talk with other   Kiera Dent (14:43.36) Okay.   Brendan (15:06.74) people that consult for practices.   Kiera Dent (15:09.022) Yeah, for sure. So hopefully I understood your question. I'll answer and if I missed it, please, I'm here for it. But our consulting primarily focuses on GP practices. We have a really strong pediatric following as well. Some OS, some ortho. We kind of dabble in all of the specialties a little bit, but really GP and our niche is to work with the practice owners. We sometimes will work with their associates, so the doctors and then also the team. As I found,   Like we put so much out there for the doctors. Like everybody is targeting the doctors. Why would they not? The doctors are the buyer, the doctors are the ones running the practice. But I realized if we can elevate the team as well and we can teach the team to think like owners and we can get the team inspired and excited, that's 90 % of the battle of having a successful practice. So we coach both. We raise up office managers. We build leadership teams. We do quarterlies. I do work with startup practices all the way up to multi -level DSOs.   And so really kind of everything in between my sweet spots, usually the two, three, four, five locations is really what I love to do or practice owners who are wanting to grow and possibly sell to a DSO. I love the startups. love to give them the system so they really do well. Exponentially, we have an entire CE online database that's got operations manual and all those pieces, but really my body has physically been in over 250 dental practices. I used to travel about   265 days a year. And so I now have cut that back and I don't travel as much as I used to for work. I do more for fun, but that's really kind of our nutshell. And then we bring all of our doctors together and I love to get doctors to just share. from the brand new owner to the experienced owner, having them collaborate together in mastermind settings where there's so much knowledge, I get to see it. Most people don't get to be in 200 offices. They don't get to work with 200 teams.   But to bring all these teams together and bring all these doctors together, that's where we elevate and lift everybody up. And so it's really fun. So hopefully that answered your question, but if not, ask any other ones about that.   Brendan (17:15.124) Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that definitely answers it. And what kind of percentages are you at now versus in the beginning working with DSOs versus smaller private practices? I'm curious.   Kiera Dent (17:23.66) Gotcha. So we're more like, I would say 90 % are our private practices and 10 % are the DSOs. However, a lot of our practices do sell to those larger DSOs, which I think is just a common piece right now. But I am very pro not, I don't have a one size fits all. Our consulting is very much, what does that doctor want to do? And some doctors are like, Kiera, I get emails from DSOs every other day, but that's not what I want to do.   And my job's not to say like, let's build it to sell to a DSO. My job is to say, Brendan, what life do you want to have? What do we want to do? Where do you want to be? Like, what do you want your financial retirements to be? How much time do you want off from the practice? And let's build your practice to suit your life and fulfill your life. Because if you are happy and thriving, everything else will fall into place.   Brendan (18:10.516) Yeah, I would like everything else to fall into place one day. Hopefully nine months after graduating, that's the goal. I did already sign with a practice. It's a multi -practice out on Long Island. How many practices have you worked with on Long Island?   Kiera Dent (18:12.492) It will.   Kiera Dent (18:20.351) Amazing.   Long Island, I've actually had two over there. So I've definitely been up in that area. I had a practice in the Bronx, definitely not dental 365. I used to work with an office named Brian Stimler. He was out there and then there was another office in there just slipping. This was, mean, we're talking six years ago that was in Long Island. I like, I could see them. I just cannot remember their name. I'll look it up post show and let you know.   Brendan (18:27.786) 10 .0365, who, who, can I know?   Kiera Dent (18:46.829) But yeah, I'm flying out to Canadaigua on Sunday to go and work with a practice up there. So I still come out that way, but I don't have any more on Long Island.   Brendan (18:56.02) That's all right. Wow. Okay. So you're all over the U S Canada at all. Cause you mentioned.   Kiera Dent (18:59.198) Mm -hmm. So I have consulted in Canada. I've consulted in Australia and New Zealand as well. I was trying to do the whole international thing. We have lots of listeners international, which is super fun. But I almost got deported from Canada on one of my visits. after that, which I thought Canada of all the places. So almost the client told me just to say I was going for fun. so I did. They like searched my phone.   Brendan (19:15.546) What? How did that happen?   Kiera Dent (19:27.722) They were like, what are your clients? What do you do? Like, what do these friends do? They're dentists and they told me, technically I'm allowed to go over there to collect data without a visa, but if not, that they could deport me. I was so scared. I've never been that scared in my entire life. I was shaking. I definitely went and visited by Niagara Falls. Like I literally was a whole complete tourist. I told my clients like, I'm sorry, we'll not be doing anything. We still have a good giggle from that time. But yeah, after that, I just stopped.   Traveling International for development.   Brendan (19:57.802) Is that by plane, car? Like what?   Kiera Dent (20:00.308) It was in the airport. I should have. So it's funny. I was actually in Canandaigua and their practice was in Toronto and it was like a two, maybe a two hour drive across the border. And I should have done that. But my assistant at the time, like we were just new, we were young and I had someone booking travel for me. And so she flew me back to Newark and then flew me to Toronto. And when I did that going through Toronto customs, I was rookie.   The things I did wrong one I was dressed like a business professional on a Saturday Two I was trying to be so super ultra honest and put that I had peanuts like I had nuts in my bag Which was so dumb like I wasn't eating it there like I don't know what my thought process was on it And I remember getting a pink line across my little document going into Canada Which sent me to the right not to the left. I was sitting there waiting forever then I started to wonder like   Why am I in this line? Like usually this is a faster thing. Then I started to get nervous. like I have contracts and things like that in my email. Luckily when I got up there, the lady was not having any, anything like we were not getting onto good terms. Like they're very strict at border control. And luckily my, they're so mean.   Brendan (21:14.794) They are like for like it's good to be strict, but you're there for business. What's wrong with I don't like why are they stopping? I don't know what and the peanuts. What's wrong with peanuts?   Kiera Dent (21:22.152) So they say, are you bringing any nuts with you? And I was like, why did I say yes to that? Just don't eat them while you're over there if you accidentally, or throw them away. I don't know what my deal was. yeah, but then on my flight back, my client was like, you're fine. You got over. And I said, I don't think I'm fine. And truth be told, when I went back to the airport, there's a code that they'll put on some tickets. I couldn't check in. So when I was flying back, I wasn't allowed to check in on.   line said go to the airport. I printed my ticket and I got four S's on my boarding pass, which then meant I got searched up and down left and right. The really cool thing is because I do work in dental offices, my bag and my shoes actually flagged that I had bomb making materials on me. They asked what I do for work and what my husband does for work, found out we were in healthcare, which I mean, there are some things that we do have in dental offices that probably could contribute.   Brendan (21:56.554) no, yeah.   Kiera Dent (22:20.214) So when they found out I worked in healthcare, I was allowed to go, everything was fine. I got to the gate, I got searched again at the gate, and then finally I was able to fly back home. So I have never been so excited to see the US flag flying after. So that was my end of international consulting. I've still consulted people in Canada, but they have to come over to the US. I'll meet them right at the border, but we do it all in the US now. So that was a good lesson learned early on.   Brendan (22:46.665) Okay.   Yeah, yeah, fair enough. And you could probably do a bit virtual. Why do you need to meet in person? I'm curious.   Kiera Dent (22:54.74) Yeah. So that was like really what I built the company on and we've since shifted and whatnot. But what I found was like going to people's offices, like I went to one office, I'd been consulting them for about six months and I walked in and they had paper charts. Never once did paper charts come up on any of our calls. And I'm like, excuse me, we have paper charts in this office. Like how was that never a conversation? And what I realized is what me as a consultant might see that maybe isn't like   a good flow or good things, a dentist who's been doing this for years might not even know that that's abnormal. And so sometimes being able to see the practice can really help. It can really help us evaluate. We can get the team on board. So that's been something that's been really fun. But we've also now learned that, like, I think after seeing so many practices myself, we know a lot more of the questions to ask of the team pieces of the flow. There's different ways. mean, COVID really helped exponentially grow that virtual piece. And honestly, we can get, I would say,   We're like 98 % as good of results virtually as we were getting in person. So the only thing I think people miss is just like us being with their teams. So now we're flying all of our doctors and teams together. So we're still able to influence. And we learned through COVID, we did virtual team events and teams love it. Like we ship swag boxes and we really learned how to have this like fun, engaging experience virtually that teams get bought into. And then it's cheaper for the doctors not to have to fly an entire team.   Brendan (23:58.548) if could.   Kiera Dent (24:22.092) to a location as well.   Brendan (24:23.956) Right, right, right, right. I just thought of a couple things to ask you really quickly. Have you ever met Paul Vigario of SurfCT? No, okay, they're an IT company. They do a bunch of things, but you were mentioning kind of, I forget the exact word you used, but you were saying like building up and motivating the team of the dental office. He uses the word empower, which I thought was interesting. I didn't know if you guys had crossed paths or something, but he would be a good person to connections in the network. The other thing is I could,   Kiera Dent (24:31.658) I have not. That'd be a one.   Kiera Dent (24:42.221) Mm   Kiera Dent (24:50.944) Yeah.   Brendan (24:53.8) I wanted to ask you because you like to go your at least you started the business by going in person to these offices. Do you have any recommendations that you make as far as the flow? Because you have the waiting room and then you have the operatories and all double chairs. Maybe if consult consulting group, consult rooms and follow up rooms next to them. And then towards the end on the way out, it's different from the entrance because people got dental treatment and they got to make that payment. Hopefully before they leave the office. Is that anything that you evaluate and make better or   Kiera Dent (25:19.717) Mm -hmm.   Kiera Dent (25:23.564) Totally. Yeah. One of my offices, they're a very big booming practice. They do over 14 million a year in one location. And I went up to their office and it's kind of my running joke. said, you guys, I don't even want to put this on my resume that I did this for your practice. We're talking big booming practice, huge practice. They've been doing amazing for years. What I implemented in their practice were flowers that I went and bought from the store.   and put in vases at their checkout location because what I noticed is they were not getting a high of cases closed because there was no privacy. It was too big of a thing. And I also noticed the flow was really confusing because people were coming from both directions and they were actually running into each other. Patients were backing up, patients were leaving. And I'm I'm kind of embarrassed that like, Kiera Dent came in, Dental A Team, and I put flowers on your checkout.   But what happened was their case acceptance skyrocketed. The patient flow I practiced with the entire team. Because what's crazy is those little things we don't think about, but the patient experience exponentially increases and our case acceptance goes up exponentially. So I'm like a miracle girl in practices. Case acceptance is my jam. Having really smooth flows for practices is really what I love to do. And so yes, in my perfect world, if I get to see your blueprints before you build the practice,   Always having an in and an out because it really helps but if like the practice is how it is Let's figure out flows Sometimes I'll just add a little bench by the checkout where people can actually seat their patients so the patient's not leaving the door Little different things where you can hand like a route slip or anything of communication like the baton passing between the front and the back office so that way everything is just so clean and what's going on between the front to the back and having that flow very   very easy. But yeah, that's something I really love to see. Because just one small little thing or in big offices, I do like a direction and a flow of traffic. So that way we're getting all patients going through one door, getting them to check out, there's a set process. I call it like the HOV lane or the like, so they're just a quick checkout, like a speedy checkout, send them to this person. If they're a longer one, put them here, have different people that are better with different skill sets at those two seats.   Brendan (27:16.394) Interesting.   Brendan (27:30.378) I like that.   Kiera Dent (27:41.61) Sometimes on the check -in, I'll have people take payments, so we're not backing them up. In really large practices, when they start to get bigger and bigger, I will start to have the clinical team, like very easy. If they just need a fluoride payment, just swipe that card in the back, very easy. We can get credit cards on file. And then there's checks and balances to make sure none of it gets missed because more hands in pots can oftentimes lead to chaos. But if it's a systematized way, you can do so much with a flow and make everybody's life so much easier.   Brendan (28:09.738) Absolutely. So then at least to my next question and right on that, virtually, how do you assess someone's patient flow and the routes and finding that HOV lane?   Kiera Dent (28:18.348) So, oftentimes we will still go to practices, but if I'm not in a practice, it's really simple. Like do a little FaceTime video with me, like walk me through your practice, show me what your patients are doing. and what's really fun about our consulting is when you've seen so many offices, you can like within 10 minutes of being in a practice, I already know what they could do to improve very quickly. Cause you just see it. It's like we're playing a game and I spot it. And so just do a fast, easy FaceTime. I've got an office right now and   We work through their entire flow virtually and everything's moving really well. So just an easy FaceTime or a Zoom will take me around the whole office and we can just pick up a small little change here or there.   Brendan (28:59.998) that a lot. Are you only working with general dentistry? Can you come over and work in oral surgery at least a little bit? Maybe.   Kiera Dent (29:05.782) course. Yeah, we have three OS offices right now. So yes, we do branch out to other specialties. OS is fun. I like working with GPs that did implants and things which I get there's a world of like OS you're more trained. GPs love to dabble. I think like I'm not here for that debate but I am here for I love OS. I think OS is so awesome the things that we can do for patients I think.   being able to give people confidence back, being able to do it with so much ease. I love surgery, I love surgery cases, I love implants, I love bone grafting. We did a ramus and we harvested the ramus for an implant and it did not go well. So I have a lot of respect for MaxoFacial who do it well because ours was not a good experience. But it's just fascinating the thing. So yes, we definitely work in OS and help with that.   Brendan (29:43.08) A lot of fun, yeah.   Kiera Dent (30:04.202) And they're just different things.   Brendan (30:04.532) You said, yeah, you said three office. Is it three different offices or like one organization or the three different organizations? Okay. Okay. It is one of the max. I'm curious, max, Dr. Iraq's.   Kiera Dent (30:09.652) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. No, no. I would love to just go see how they do it because I think I'd learn so much. And that's the other fun thing. I am always, I tell offices, I'm like, I'm here to teach you any tip and piece that can make your life easier, but I'm also here to learn from you too. So much of what we do in our consulting, yes, came from experiences and things we brought to it.   But there's so many great ideas that I see in offices that I'm obsessed with. I've seen really awesome ways to cut down supply costs just with tip -out bins. I've seen awesome ways with flow. I've seen really awesome things with things you do in the waiting room. There's just so many cool things when you go and see offices. So I would love to go see Mac's offices. What are they doing? What's their patient experience like? What's their team experience like? Because offices...   Brendan (30:45.567) Mm.   Brendan (31:01.587) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (31:05.164) It's usually dependent upon the owner doctor. I'm like, you can easily, I usually within like five or 10 minutes of meeting a team, I can tell, will they be successful or not? And most of it is due to the owner doctor and how they are. Dr. Jason, he's incredible. He has such a heart of gold. He's very committed to where he's going. I'm like, he, he like plants success everywhere he goes because of who he is. like, his team of course is thriving. know they're thriving without even seeing his office. So yeah, it'd be really fun to go see him.   Brendan (31:14.452) Hmm   Brendan (31:34.132) They are, they really are. And you need to meet Megan Dwyer too. She's like his go -to, maybe you know of her though. Yeah, they are, their organization is pretty incredible. Of the DSOs, I would put them at the top of the list, I think. Moving forward, I'm very curious to see, because they're fairly new. They've been in it for a bit, but they're fairly new. I'm curious to see where they go. I still have a couple more questions if you have some more time. What's, so here's a quick one. What's something you like to spot the,   Kiera Dent (31:34.986) Thank   Kiera Dent (31:47.104) Mm   Kiera Dent (31:57.546) Yeah, of course I do. Yeah, absolutely.   Brendan (32:03.838) The gaps, I love that. What's one difference you see in oral surgery offices that's different from the general dentist office?   Kiera Dent (32:11.3) Wes is just big treatment plans most of the time. Like it's a, we're not, we're there to build a relationship. We're there to love them, but we're not there. Like you're not there Dennis forever. Like you guys are there for very much a specialty. And so like the way you schedule an OS practice compared to how I schedule a GP practice, the relationship building with an OS practice, a lot of it's going to be relationship building with all your GPS in the area where GPs.   are more about just attracting patients in. So that's something I see a lot, but OS is, I think OS is helping the doctors. OS has a reputation of like, pop that anesthetic in, take the teeth out and off they go. It's kind of a little bit more, it is a little more rash. And so just helping those doctors realize like that experience is getting you the reputation all the way out. Like you're an incredible surgeon.   Brendan (32:59.06) more rash. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (33:08.372) Make sure the bedside manners match your expertise. Make sure that patient feels your love for them because dentistry is such an intimate experience. Like nowhere do you let a stranger put their fingers in your mouth. Like it's just, weird. Like we literally let these strangers do it. It's very weird. And so helping those, is. And then a lot of OS, I noticed that they're such brilliant surgeons that they struggle with team dynamics a lot.   Brendan (33:19.388) It is. It's your mouth. Yeah.   Very vulnerable, yeah.   Kiera Dent (33:35.424) That's something I noticed more so in OS than I noticed in GP. so helping them see like you are this incredible surgeon and I want you to be the expert there. And I also want you to be a human to your team. Like Dr. Jason is, he is a very different OS. He doesn't have that chip. He doesn't have the, which I mean, my husband's in medicine too. And there's some surgeons who have that chip on their shoulder and they're total jerks. And like I watched even in the healthcare, some doctors are such   Brendan (33:36.088) Kiera Dent (34:03.67) jerks to their team. And I'm like, you get so much more further if your team's behind you than you do by like barking orders at them or telling them. And I understand surgery is stressful. Like if we mess up, the surgery has some not so great side effects to it. And so I understand the need for that perfection, but I'm like, teach your team with those perfect systems that you want it perfect every time and then love on them when they do great things too is something I noticed. Now that's not like   Brendan (34:13.524) Mm -hmm.   Kiera Dent (34:32.006) blanket statement because there's GP doctors that have that need that exact same advice. But that is something I think it's just OS is it's fast. It's like shucking teeth all day long and   Brendan (34:42.046) Yeah, no, it's so it's so disappointing though. And I completely connected with that. I'm surrounded by such brilliant people. Some of the people that have gotten just at my program, don't want to mention the program, but at my program surrounded by other oral surgery surgeons and residents that have gotten the top scores in the country. And but there's just such a disconnect where they're like, they just think it's taken out teeth. And I get made fun of for taking a long, I like to take a long time at the consult. I'll ask you three times before you walk out. Are there any questions that I can answer for you? You know, I don't care if that's annoying.   or if I'm taking too long and the assistants are bugging me or making fun of me from the hallway and stuff. But it's that patient experience. It's exactly what you said. And I make a lot of content on the side, make fun of that too. But no, I'm really connecting with you on that. It's such an important thing. And I cannot stand that ego. I don't care if you have a DDS and an MD. We are human beings. And outside of the clinic, you're Josh. You're just Peter. You know, I'm just Brendan, right?   Kiera Dent (35:38.956) Thank   Brendan (35:41.066) You're not talking to this and that. And you know, obviously there's so many amazing people out there and you know, those are some of my friends. So I'm not talking about them, but it's an interesting thing. It's so weird to find such a predominance of that ego and elevated mindset. And I've found dentists who are just the same exact thing too. For another time though, but yeah, feel like we're going on to that. But it does, comes down to the patient experience. And I really do appreciate that.   Kiera Dent (36:02.861) you   Kiera Dent (36:09.398) for sharing.   Brendan (36:11.074) man, I just missed there were another two things that I had lined up ready to go. shouldn't have said anything.   Kiera Dent (36:18.49) No, you're good. I think though, as you said that, I think the greatest thing that doctors can do is build that confidence in your patient. I tell all my treatment coordinators and consultors and doctors, I'm like, they are not here buying dentistry. They are buying your confidence. They are buying your, that you're going to get the best results because I'm like, people forget that like we live in dental Tinder.   Like there is another dentist, there's another maxofacial somewhere else that can get like, they can do the same thing. And I'm like, they're buying you, they're buying your confidence, they're buying what you can give them of the dream and the hope. And so yes, like I love to ask what questions do you have for me? I want you to be rock solid leaving here. That helps that patient know one, what questions do you have for me is great. It's open -ended. I'm getting them to say yes to me rather than no to me.   Two, I'm telling them how I want them to feel. I want them to feel rock solid, confident, moving forward. What questions do you have for me? If they tell me they want to check with their spouse, absolutely, I want you to check with your spouse. What questions do think your spouse will ask you? That way I can make sure you're fully prepared for it. That's my way I can get past it and find out what's really taking this patient back. When they're like, hey, I need to check my work schedule, absolutely no problem.   Let's add you to the schedule. So me, Kiera Dent, who's ditzy over here, doesn't forget about you, Brendan. I never want to let you slip through the cracks. I'll just pop you on the schedule. You give me a call when you get to work, if that doesn't work for you, because I would hate to let you slip through the cracks. So many little things where we're making that patient the VIP. I feel like in today's world, it's funny because we think that there's so much competition out there, but I'm like, it's actually really easy to stand out and it's called being kind. I think the world has gone through the COVID crank.   I think we've become very self -centered in a lot of ways in the world. And I'm like, the greatest way for us to give incredible patient experience is to be kind, to show up as a human being, to sit knee to knee with them on their level. Like you said, what questions do you have for me? I think we've kind of forgotten how to be human beings. We've become human robots. And that's how you can actually stand out in today's world. I'm like, it's such an easy way to get an edge is to just be kind and to treat them.   Kiera Dent (38:27.828) and make sure that they're rock solid confident is going to be the way to win those patients. And then like, I don't care whatever you do have great bedside manners. but I remember my ER doctor when I had an appendix burst, I loved my ER doctor, I loved him and he was so busy, but he made me feel so taken care of. And my husband went out to while I was waiting in the room and he's like, our doctor is literally running between rooms, but as soon as he gets the door, he like walks in so slow and like, Kiera I'm here, whatever questions you have.   and then would like book it as soon as he left the room. I never felt that rush. I felt like he was taking great care of me. And I think that's a great way for all dentists to have an edge and to win the patients that need to be served by you.   Brendan (39:11.21) Yeah, you need to have that humanistic quality to you it and just back to you were saying how it's like tinder There's always another it's like there's always gonna be another oral surgeon who's taller. There's always gonna be on their dentists That's better looking That's that's so funny And just just a few more questions. I I got back to it by the way the Within those first two years, I'm curious I want to just just if we could touch into the secret sauce a little bit here   Kiera Dent (39:23.628) Sure.   Kiera Dent (39:28.768) Yep. Good.   Brendan (39:40.884) Cause I'm going to start in this practice next August, August 15th. And I am, I want to, I want you to come over and do a whole revamp and we figure out what's going on. The offices, the practices, I'll pay for it. However we got to do it. But within those first two years, I'll be working for someone, but you were with someone who had started her own practice or was working in.   Kiera Dent (39:59.724) Nope, we started it. We bought it from a retiring doctor. Yep.   Brendan (40:01.61) Start from there. What were some of those key things, maybe two or three things, if you could touch on them that got her from the, regardless of the numbers, but what got really the scaling going? You said systems and processes, so you got those going. Is there another one or two things that I should be looking for in my first two years? I got a two -year contract, that's where I signed. I want to be a partner there one day. What's something I should be looking into to find or bring to the table to be that missing piece, if you can share something, one or two things.   Kiera Dent (40:19.724) Thank   Mm   Kiera Dent (40:29.78) Yeah, of course. So I think I'd find out where are the gaps in that practice right now. What are the things that the owner doctor maybe doesn't enjoy doing? Are they really amazing with numbers? Are they really amazing with the team? Are they really amazing clinicians? Because usually people have a natural gravitation to something. And so when I look at practices and partnerships, I work a lot with partners and helping doctors come together.   Brendan (40:40.36) you   Kiera Dent (40:55.94) is what's the complimentary piece? So like when I have a husband wife duo in a practice, I'm like, all right, one of you is probably naturally gifted with the team and one of you is probably naturally gifted with numbers. That usually tends to be the dynamic I see with partners. When there's multiple partners in there, we obviously bring different skill sets to the table. But I would say go find out as a partner, if your skill sets the team or if it's numbers, I also say that that can't be your crutch either.   You still need to go learn the other side of it. So that way you can be a resource for them. So just because you might not like numbers, go figure it out, figure out how they do the billing, go talk to the front office, have them like you sit in the chair and physically send the bill. So you understand what that process is like. So you know how you can help support your team as well. And also how you can check and audit the numbers in the books. I really love when doctors come in with an owner mindset and there's also gotta be a level of appreciation.   while there's also confidence. So recognizing that that doctor took all the risk to build this practice for you, I think goes a long way. But then at the same time, you need to come in with something that they don't have that you're going to bring in. really being observant of what don't they like or what are the gaps? How's the team doing? Are we doing team meetings, listening to podcasts? And then also remembering that you're a leader. So I think you leading, no matter if you care to do it or not.   as a doctor, you're just a natural leader to your team. We are always going to follow you. We're always going to respect you because you're our doctor. And so I think those are the pieces, but I feel pretend this was your practice. What things would you have to know? You'd have to know the numbers. You'd have to know what profitability is. You'd have to know what your EBITDA is. You'd have to know the billing processes. You'd have to know how to hire and fire. You'd have to know the HR portion of it. You also have to be a great clinician. And so as you like, usually I say your first six -ish months, you got to be a bang of   clinician. Like I need you to come in, I need you to produce, I want you to do all these things and really learn that mentorship piece and then like start to take on those little pieces of the practice ownership. So when you come to the table, you're not just bringing a check to buy into the practice, you're bringing skills that are very valuable to this practice that's complimentary to what they have already.   Brendan (43:05.994) Excellent and thank you for that. We actually are doing some stuff on the marketing side so I'm very glad that you mentioned those things. Okay great so we'll be touching base throughout next year. I start August 15th so we'll be doing that. We'll be touching base. Is your work expensive?   Kiera Dent (43:18.355) I'm caught.   Kiera Dent (43:28.199) Yeah, of course. So we do online and we do in person and really we try to customize it to your practice. And so all of our fees have always been covered by either the amount we reduce in your overhead or the production we add to your practice. I've never once not had our consulting paid for and we range anywhere from like ,600 a month all the way up to $4 ,500 a month, depending upon the amount that we would be doing, whether we're coming to your practice, whether we're coming out here.   what different pieces we're doing and how much hands -on. But really, my goal is how can we help people succeed and flourish is what I love to do.   Brendan (44:00.468) next one.   Brendan (44:06.354) Excellent. And you have a team, I'm sure you have other people who's Shelby, by the way, she's just, she helps coordinates things or.   Kiera Dent (44:12.441) Yes, Shelby is my executive assistant and our customer success. And she really so she does all of my scheduling and coordinating, which is incredible. And then she also takes care of all of our clients, too. So she's beautiful. She's incredible. I hired her. She was my next door neighbor, actually. And I was like, I was like, this girl takes care of my plants when I'm on the road. She just noticed my plants were dying and started watering them for me. She just like randomly check in on me. She was a waitress. And I'm like,   Brendan (44:28.468) Amazing! That's great!   Kiera Dent (44:40.138) This girl loves people so much. want her in my life and on my team. so, yeah, we've worked together for almost four years now and she's just truly incredible.   Brendan (44:50.922) That's amazing. that's so nice that it's like a family business. Yeah!   Kiera Dent (44:53.44) So look for good talent. I know, look for good talent everywhere. I've hired people from my next door neighbor. I've hired people from friends of friends. I've hired people from church. You always gotta be on the lookout for incredible talent because those people are the people you want in your life.   Brendan (45:09.428) How do you find the roles for them in your company? I'm curious, because with one of my marketing startups right now, with the co -founders, that's what we're looking for. We need this and this done. But then finding the right people, you know, on top of the day -to -day, the nine -to -five, you found people at church, neighbor. And they just happened to fit that thing that was missing at that one time, or they molded, you trained them. I'm curious.   Kiera Dent (45:23.98) Sure.   Kiera Dent (45:31.168) Thank   both. So I think it's important, like whenever I tell people like, hey, we're going to try and find a role. And we don't know, I just say, great, like, let's write down everything, like, just dump it all on a list of everything that you are either doing, or you need to delegate out or things you'd like to not be doing. And then let's see if we can cluster it. So can we lump tasks together? Like for me, I need someone to book my travel, I need someone to do my emails, check the mail, like take care of my clients when I was on the road.   All that really falls into an assistant role. And then I was able to go find that person. And when I first did it, just dumped everything on a list. I went back with a pink highlighter, my favorite color. And I'm like, these are things that truly only I can do. And it's a good ego test because 90 % of that list is not only you can do. They're probably like 5 or 10%. That truly are tasks that only you can do. And then I looked at the ones that took me the most amount of time. And then I was like, OK.   Who could I hire for this? And that's how I started hiring these different positions. Now, a lot of times, you kind of know an assistant role or an executive assistant role or a manager role or a marketing person. And then I'll either put posts out there, job postings out there. I write my posts. I hate jobs to where I'm like, I don't know. I make them very fun because I really love that person and I want them to come be with us and realize how great of a position this will be for them. But no, there's so much that can be done.   with freelancers, like my first personal assistant I hired for 500 bucks a month. like, I don't even know what I'm having you do, but like, know I need you. So like more tasks will come as you take on more things and I'll just like keep paying you. And so then they just morph. And usually those personal assistants or those assistants that are kind of at random, like jack of all trades, master of nothing, they really just... So I found my first one on Indeed. I hired her. I just put an ad out.   Brendan (47:20.446) Yeah. Where did you find that person, by the way?   Brendan (47:27.518) Thank you.   Kiera Dent (47:28.876) Viva HR is a great resource too, that I love. I'm happy to share a link with all the listeners. It's $99 a month and you can post on all the platforms, unlimited ads. And I was like spending $15 ,000 a year on job postings for a while. This has cut down a huge expense for us. So I do post there. but I write mine very fun. So I like talk about how fun our company is. I talk about our Disneyland retreats. go on, I talk about like, what's your favorite cupcake flavor. So that way it's just very intentional. And then for them to come back to me.   I do tell them they have to respond back with certain things. And if people don't do it, I just weed through. But yeah, the first personal assistant I hired, she was a college student. She came from a great company in the area. And she just loved me from day one. For personal assistants, I have a really good process that I'm happy to share with anyone trying to hire this role, where we make them do certain things like book a trip for me, schedule this dinner thing. And I look to see their thought processes and how long it takes them. So I kind of test them through the interview process.   So she was hired from Indeed. Another one was hired. Shelby was my next door neighbor. But yeah, they just come from all over random. But I found the best people for that role are usually from hospitality. So waitresses, servers, Starbucks. Anyone in that service tanning anything in that world where you've got to really be high end nice. I love a waitress or a waiter because they've got to watch so many people.   Brendan (48:26.388) Mmm.   Kiera Dent (48:53.376) They serve a bunch of people. They're very fast paced. Like that's a good person who matches me. I love to bring those people in. but yeah, that's, so that's where I find those people. But indeed, honestly, college towns, a lot of people in college town just want like, I don't need them full time. So they're really good role to bring in part time. But I found the ones that are in college usually are the best ones for that personal assistant. And then   Brendan (48:56.67) Yes.   Brendan (49:01.642) Speaking of tanning, yeah, this light isn't doing me any good. But all right, anyways, start, keep going, keep going. I'm very worried.   Kiera Dent (49:21.036) depending on what they're going into school for. Shelby was going to school for business administration, so it was a perfect match for her. My other one was going to school for teaching, so she was with me through the time she got her degree, and now we're still really good friends after that too.   Brendan (49:34.026) Amazing. You're brilliant. This is one system in process to another. I really appreciate this. I really do. Excellent.   Kiera Dent (49:38.73) Thank you. Thank you. I want to make your life easy. So whatever we can do to like simplify and ease people's lives. That's what we're here for.   Brendan (49:47.046) Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on. No, I'm just now you're we're hitting the cap where there's there's a lot to take in here. Can you do me a favor and please go and take a look at Max's offices and everything like within this year so that afterwards that we can talk stealing double things.   Kiera Dent (50:04.46) Right. Exactly. Well, he's so great because he's been on your podcast earlier today. He just mentioned he was like, everybody thinks they're competitors. And the reality is we're not competitors. There's enough teeth to go around. There's enough like all, all ships rise, like all tides rise all ships. And I love that perspective. I'm like, we need more people like him. I guarantee you if you went and saw his offices, he'd take you around. And that's the type of doctors. Like, we attract these doctors.   Brendan (50:28.84) I did actually, yeah.   Kiera Dent (50:32.32) who want to give to others, who want to lift each other up, that want to share their best ideas. And that's what I'm committed to just creating more of because the more we celebrate, the more we share, the more we lift each other up and we give all these ideas, like I will happily give anything I can for you because the more you can succeed, the more you're going to rise other people up with you as well. So why not? The world needs more goodness and more positivity. So let's create it.   Brendan (50:56.21) It does. does. The one thing because he has a corporation now. It's a big organization. They're amazing. They're beautiful. But then there's going to be certain ceilings and walls and what you can and can't do. Unfortunately. And I was very I saw his offices and he is outstanding and his team is great. They're lot of fun. They're a lot of fun. And I I love that. But I just saw the path to kind of I don't know where I'm going to make it. And I want to try to go towards administrative in addition to   taking out teeth and doing the oral surgery. And I felt that in a DSO, there would be certain boundaries that might prevent that growth. And I'm sure you understand that, right? Especially with your story of the blossoming, right? So yeah, I could do, and then there was one person that their organization hired that I knew of that probably wouldn't work well, but butting heads kind of stuff. So you have to make decisions as you move on. So I'd be very curious if I was to work there.   Kiera Dent (51:47.148) Sure.   Brendan (51:52.126) We wouldn't have a future of a project together of building, creating systems and processes. So you know what I mean? Like, and this is kind of like how I like to connect. had a great conversation today. I can't thank you for not coming on. You have such a busy schedule. Shelby's great, by the way. I'm all over the place. It's only me here right now. And one day learning from you, maybe I could scale, but thank you so much for coming on. I'm going to, I'm going to be posting this on whatever platforms we can. I'm sorry that you're recording this with the backwards Riverside. Thanks.   Kiera Dent (51:57.299) Sure.   Kiera Dent (52:06.41) Thank you.   Brendan (52:21.78) for Shelby to putting that together though. Yeah, thank you. I know we're hitting that hour mark. So I want to be conscious of your time. Maybe we could do part two sometime in the future. Or maybe when you come through, if you can. Can I, I know you have a team now, in the future, revamping the practice and stuff. Is there a different price from getting you versus a team member, a delegate? How does that work?   Kiera Dent (52:22.841) Yeah, of course. Thank you.   Kiera Dent (52:31.18) Thank   Kiera Dent (52:34.516) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (52:45.453) Yeah, great question. I have always tried to make sure that whomever I hire is just as good as me, if not better. I even tell other people, I'm like, honestly, my consultants are usually better than me due to the fact that all they do is consulting. And so they're truly incredible for it. So I have never wanted to have a different fee for myself or for consultants. And so currently, it's the same fee. I just don't take on as many clients. However, with that said,   certain people that we've connected with and if I'm in the area and it works out, by all means, I'm happy to come. And even sometimes it's me plus a consultant because I just, my biggest expectation of ourselves is I feel like we have got to be there for clients. Like when I need my coach, I need her. And so we are so on top of it that I would never want to have it where I am busy, I'm on podcasts, the clients can't get in touch. So I always, if I even am on an office,   I pair myself with another consultant just so you guys always have support and you're never left due to the fact that I am busy and I do travel. absolutely, there's no extra fee if it's me or someone else. So yeah, that would be, but honestly, our consultants, I only bring on consultants in our company that have my experience or better, that they've had to grow multiple practices, that they have the dental experience, that they've got the passion for dentistry, that they've grown multiple practices.   because I don't feel like if you haven't been in their shoes, it's very hard to convince people of what to do or to even have that empathy. yeah, so that's how we operate. But now if I didn't bring on people that were just as good as me, if not better, I think that'd be a flaw of myself as well.   Brendan (54:23.924) That's such a good idea. Do you ever get all your teams, the consultants together on the podcast all at once? How often do you do that?   Kiera Dent (54:29.482) We do. actually did one. It was actually really weird to have all of us on there because like virtually you don't know who's goin

Today's word of the day is ‘probability' as in chances as in up as in down as in Yankees as in Guardians as in Judge as in Stanton as in Noel as in Fry. What a postseason game yesterday! Clase blows another save! Weaver blows a save! Guardians steal a game! (11:50) The Dodgers are too good. Too much firepower on offense. The bullpen is shutting down the Mets batter. It's ugly out there! (22:30) So You Wanna Talk to Samson!? Someone asked me about the Knicks new jersey patch deal with Abu Dhabi and somehow the new location of the Sphere being in the UAE. HAHAHA! (35:10) Review: Deadpool & Wolverine. (38:30) NPPOD. (42:40) Kawhi Leonard and the Clippers have a problem. His knee is bad. Has missed so many game because of it. We were told it was all fine and now he's out indefinitely. Not good for Steve Ballmer and the new Intuit Dome! (50:20) Why are the Steelers benching Justin Fields for Russell Wilson? What's the point of breaking up the 4-2 team? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's word of the day is ‘probability' as in chances as in up as in down as in Yankees as in Guardians as in Judge as in Stanton as in Noel as in Fry. What a postseason game yesterday! Clase blows another save! Weaver blows a save! Guardians steal a game! (11:50) The Dodgers are too good. Too much firepower on offense. The bullpen is shutting down the Mets batter. It's ugly out there! (22:30) So You Wanna Talk to Samson!? Someone asked me about the Knicks new jersey patch deal with Abu Dhabi and somehow the new location of the Sphere being in the UAE. HAHAHA! (35:10) Review: Deadpool & Wolverine. (38:30) NPPOD. (42:40) Kawhi Leonard and the Clippers have a problem. His knee is bad. Has missed so many game because of it. We were told it was all fine and now he's out indefinitely. Not good for Steve Ballmer and the new Intuit Dome! (50:20) Why are the Steelers benching Justin Fields for Russell Wilson? What's the point of breaking up the 4-2 team? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Open Phones with Barry, who knows way too much about his daughters, actually his wife probably does too We get a call from Michael The Chaplin from Chattanooga who had a comment about playing music during funerals from last week

Sarah and David go to Princeton, where they grapple with the attempt of elite universities to remain politically neutral. (Hahaha.) And is there another Supreme Court leak? Really? Also: Where are we on the supposed TikTok ban? The Agenda: —Institutional opinions —TikTok ban at the D.C. circuit —New York Times: How Roberts Shaped Trump's Supreme Court Winning Streak —The use of AI in law —What's next for TikTok? —New Title IX regulations —Supreme Court reforms Advisory Opinions is a production of The Dispatch, a digital media company covering politics, policy, and culture from a non-partisan, conservative perspective. To access all of The Dispatch's offerings—including Sarah's Collision newsletter, weekly livestreams, and other members-only content—click here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices