The Road to Now

Kathleen DuVall joins Ben & Bob for a discussion of her Pulitzer Prize-winning book Native Nations: A Millennium in North America (Random House, 2024) and how understanding North American history from both Native and non-Native perspectives helps us better understand our shared story. We also discuss her work with Ken Burns on his upcoming documentary on the American Revolution.   Dr. Kathleen DuVall is Professor of History at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.   Previous episodes mentioned in this conversation:  -#183 The History of the Lumbee Indians w/ Malinda Maynor Lowery (also available here on YouTube) -#5 Tara Houska & Joe Genetin Pilawa on Native American Culture & History   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer

Bob speaks with UNC-Chapel Hill historian Molly Worthen about her new book Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History from the Puritans to Trump. Gary Fletcher edited this episode.

Ben tells the story of Marion Zioncheck, inventor of the Zioncheck Zipper* and the only sitting member of congress to escape from an insane asylum.   This is the second part of our live show featuring guests Major Garrett (CBS News), Margaret Talev (Syracuse University/Axios) & Doug Heye (too many to list). Check out the first part in episode #338 Murder & Mayhem in the Capital City.   Special thanks to Rivers Langley of The Goods from The Woods for recommending the Zioncheck story to Ben. If you enjoy this trivia round, make sure to check out Perfect Timing, the comedy game show that Ben hosts monthly at The Lab at Zanies Nashville! You can follow us on instagram at @PTgameshow The conversation was recorded on May 29, 2025 at The Hamilton Live in Washington, DC. Thanks to Matt Burton and the crew at The Hamilton for hosting us and to everyone who came out to the show!   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.   * 2oz rye 3/4oz honey syrup 6-8 mint leaves Muddle mint, stir, serve in a double old fashioned glass with crushed ice and a mint sprig for garnish  

Major Garrett (CBS News), Margaret Talev (Syracuse University/Axios) & Doug Heye (too many to list) join Bob & Ben for a conversation about Washington, DC's long history of scandals and how media has shaped public perceptions of what is/isn't acceptable in American politics.   The conversation was recorded on May 29, 2025 at The Hamilton Live in Washington, DC. A special thanks to Matt Burton and the crew at The Hamilton for hosting us and to everyone who came out to the show!   If you enjoy this episode, make sure to check out part 2 of our live recording in episode 339 (air date 6/11/25).   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.  

Few American Christians in the 21st Century question the compatibility of their faith with a capitalist economic system. Two hundred years ago, however, the social and economic changes that came with the rise of a capitalism posed fundamental challenges to Christian practices and beliefs. In this episode, Joseph Slaughter joins us to discuss his book Faith in Markets: Christian Capitalism in the Early American Republic and how Christian responses to the rise of capitalism in the 19th Century laid the foundation for how we understand our modern economy.   Dr. Joseph P. Slaughter is Assistant Professor of History and Associate Director of the Center for the Study of Guns and Society at Wesleyan College.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Ben & Bob sit down with friend and community builder Will Acuff for a conversation about how to find the good in life. Will founded the non-profit Corner to Corner, which “co-creates economic participation with underestimated Nashvillians,” alongside his wife Tiffany, and recently published his first book No Elevator to Everest: Shift from Survive to Thrive through Spirit-led Self Awareness.     This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Good Friday Agreements of 1998 marked a turning point in Irish history, bringing an end to three decades known as The Troubles and laying a course for a better future for the people of Ireland. In this historian Mark Doyle and Friends of Sinn Féin Executive Director Greg O'Loughlin join us for a conversation about Irish history, the status of Irish unification, and how peace is possible even in the hardest of times.   Dr. Mark Doyle is Professor of History at Middle Tennessee State University where he specializes in the history of Ireland and Great Britain. He previously joined us to discuss his books on The Kinks (Episode 169) and John Cale's Paris 1919 (episode 333).   Greg O'Loughlin is Executive Director of The Friends of Sinn Féin and is currently spearheading a listening tour across the United States to learn about Irish-Americans' views on Irish independence. Dates and more information are available at friendsofsinnfein.com.   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

A lot of Americans only know Eurovision via Will Farrell's film, “Eurovision Song Contest: The Story of Fire Saga,” which capture some of Eurovision's over-the-top aspects,  but the history of the annual event actually shines light on some of the biggest cultural, social and political developments in post-World War II European history. In this episode, Paul Jordan, aka Dr. Eurovision, joins Ben and special guest cohost/his wife Kelly Kolar for a conversation about Eurovision's origins, how it's been shaped by geopolitics, and, of course, who their favorites are in this year's contest, which airs live on May 17 at 3pm est.   Dr. Paul Jordan is an expert and media commentator on the Eurovision song contest and the author of The Modern Fairy Tale: Nation Branding, national identity and the Eurovision Song Contest in Estonia. From 2015 to 2018 he served on Eurovision's communication team. You can learn more about him at DrEurovision.com.   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

With our live show in Washington, DC coming up on May 29, we thought it'd be fun to share one of our previous live recordings from Cat's Cradle in Carrboro, NC w/ guests Molly Worthen, Doug Heye & Rufus Edmisten!   Dr. Molly Worthen (Department of History at UNC-Chapel Hill), Doug Heye (CNN/former RNC Communication Director) & Rufus Edmisten (Deputy Chief Council, Senate Watergate Committee/ former NC Secretary of State & Attorney General) join Bob & Ben for a conversation about charisma in American politics and society. Recorded live at the legendary Cat's Cradle in Carrboro, NC on January 25, 2020.   Join us for our next live recording on May 29, 2025 at The Hamilton Live in Washington, DC. Click here for tickets!   Click here to check out upcoming Avett Brothers shows   Click here for Ben's comedy dates   This is a rebroadcast of episode #158 which originally aired on January 27, 2020. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.  

John Cale is probably best known as a founding member of Velvet underground, but the four years he spent alongside Lou Reed represent a small fraction of the influence Cale has had on modern music. In this episode, recorded live at MTSU's Center for Popular Music, Ben talks to his friend and colleague Mark Doyle about his new book in the 33 1/3 series, which explores John Cale's 1973 album Paris 1919 and where it (may) fit within the greater context of his career, the evolution of rock music, and world history. Mark Doyle is a Professor of History at Middle Tennessee State University and previously joined us to discuss his book on The Kinks in episode 169. His new book is John Cale's Paris 1919 and you can get your copy here. A special thanks to Greg Reish & Martin Fisher at the Center for Popular Music for hosting, recording and allowing us to share this conversation. Join us for a live recording of the Road to Now in Washington, DC on May 29 at The Hamilton Live ft. guests Major Garett, Margaret Talev & Doug Heye. The theme is murder & mayhem in the capital city- get your tickets here! This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

The American Historical Association was chartered by Congress in 1884 and has played an essential role in helping foster and spread great historical research. AHA incoming Executive Director Sarah Weicksel and pioneering public historian Ed Ayers join us for a discussion of AHA's history, its current projects and the damage that recent government policy has done to historians' ability to create and share an honest history of the United States. Learn more by visiting the American Historical Association's website at historians.org. The report discussed in this episode is “American Lesson Plan: Teaching US History in Secondary Schools.” Dr. Sarah Jones Weicksel is Director of Research and Publications and incoming Executive Director at the AHA and Research Associate at the Smithsonian's National Museum of History. Dr. Ed Ayers is Tucker-Boatwright Professor of the Humanities and President Emeritus at the University of Richmond. His book In the Presence of Mine Enemies: War in the heart of America, 1859-1863 won the Bancroft Prize and Beveridge Award in 2004 and in 2013 he was awarded the National Humanities Medal. Join us for a live recording of the Road to Now in Washington, DC on May 29 at The Hamilton Live ft. guests Major Garett, Margaret Talev & Doug Heye. The theme is murder & mayhem in the capital city- get your tickets here!   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

America's role in the world is ‘changing' and as much as things look new, we've seen a lot of this before. Economic Historian Jari Eloranta joins us to put NATO military spending, the looming trade war and other recent global developments in historical context. As always, there's a lot that history can teach us when we pay attention to those who know it best.   Dr. Jari Eloranta is a Professor of History at the University of Helsinki where he specializes in Economic History. He has published extensively on the history of military spending and trade. Before moving back to his home country of Finland, Jari was a Professor of History at Appalachian State where he was crucial in inspiring Ben's fascination with economic history.   Come see the Road to Now Live at the Hamilton in Washington, DC on May 29 for a night of stories of murder and mayhem in the capital city w/ guests Margaret Talev, Major Garrett & Doug Heye. You can get tickets at RTNpod.me/liveindc.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Last week the Trump Administration announced it would be cutting more than a thousand grants to the National Endowment for the Humanities, including grants for every state humanities council. In a letter the administration stated that the NEH would be “repurposing its funding allocations in a new direction in furtherance of President Trump's agenda.” One major organization suffering from these cuts is National History Day, a brilliant program that has inspired young Americans for decades. To remind folks what we stand to lose, we're sharing our 2024 conversation on National History Day with Executive Director Cathy Gorman and podcaster Don Wildman, along with a new introduction in which Ben gives an overview of the cuts and the widespread consequences they'll have across the country.   Can learning the skills required to do good history serve as an antidote to conspiracy theory? Cathy Gorn & Don Wildman think so, and in this episode they join us to discuss their work to teach those skills in the 6th-12th grade classroom through National History Day, a program that reaches more than half a million students and tens of thousands of teachers each year. We agree with them and think National History Day is an American treasure, so we hope you enjoy this conversation about what goes into creating good history, how we can better teach that to the public, and how your kids can get involved in National History Day.   Click here to learn more about National History Day programs for students & teachers.   Dr. Cathy Gorn has spent more than four decades working with National History Day and currently serves as NHD's Executive Director.   Don Wildman is a podcast & documentary host whose projects include Mysteries at the Museum (Travel Channel) & the podcast American History Hit. He currently serves as Co-Chair of National History Day's Development Committee.   Sources:   “Cuts to NEH and Humanities Councils: What Southern States Will Lose,” statehumanities.org, Federation of State Humanities Councils, April 3, 2025.   Mia Maldonado, “Trump administration's latest federal cuts hit humanities funding in Idaho,” Idaho Capital Sun, April 4, 2025.   Jennifer Schuessler, “Trump Administration Moves to Cut Humanities Endowment,” New York Times, April 3, 2025.   Sarah D. White, “States Scramble after Trump's ‘devastating' cuts to humanities grants,” USA Today, April 5, 2025.         This is a rebroadcast of #330 which originally aired on April 22, 2024, along with a new introduction. The original episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.

RTN is coming to Washington DC on May 29! Join us for a night of stories of murder and mayhem with guests Major Garrett, Margaret Talev, and Doug Heye at the Hamilton Live! You can get tickets and details at RTNpod.me/liveindc – hope to see you there!   The “Amazon economy” seems like something new, but it rests on the physical and intellectual infrastructure built by those who came long before the age of the internet and leaves many of the same marks on the environment. Prominent in this story are five companies- Coca-Cola, Delta Airlines, Walmart, Bank of America, and FexEx-  all of which have global reach and southern roots. In this episode, Bart Elmore joins us to talk about his new book Country Capitalism: How Corporations from the American South Remade our Economy and the Planet (UNC Press, 2023), and how understanding the history of American business can help us address the environmental challenges that are undeniably facing humanity today.   Dr. Bartow Elmore is Associate Professor of History and a core faculty member of the Sustainability Institute at The Ohio State University. In addition to Country Capitalism, he is also the author of  Citizen Coke: The Making of Coca-Cola Capitalism (W. W. Norton, 2015) and Seed Money: Monsanto's Past and Our Food Future (W. W. Norton, 2021). You can hear his discuss these books in RTN episode 140 and episode 208 respectively. Bart is also a 2022 winner of the Dan David Prize.   This episode originally aired as episode #272 on May 15, 2023. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.  

With tariffs, the Enemy Alien Act, and politically driven calls for judicial impeachment in the headlines, Ben & Bob decided to sit down and put these developments in historic context. We've never been so disappointed to have such a great reason to discuss the history we love!   Some recommended readings: The US Constitution Scott Bomboy, “A Brief History of the Constitution and Tariffs,” National Constitution Center, Feb. 07, 2025 Lindsay Chervinsky, “Why the Last Supreme Court Impeachment was The Last (So Far),” The Bulwark, Sept. 02, 2022. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Libertarianism has had a tremendous influence on American politics, but according to Andrew Koppelman, its most prominent adherents have stripped libertarian philosophy of its more humane intentions. In this episode, Andrew joins Bob and Ben for a discussion about his book, Burning Down the House: How Libertarian Philosophy Was Corrupted by Delusion and Greed (St. Martin's Press, 2022) and why he contends that libertarian philosophers such as Friedrich Hayek have been stripped of their original intent by those who have ulterior motives.   Dr. Andrew Koppelman is John Paul Stevens Professor of Law and Professor of Political Science at Northwestern University. You can learn more about his work at AndrewKoppelman.com   This is a rebroadcast of RTN #249 which originally aired on October 10, 2022. This version was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Come see us May 29th at the Hamilton Live in DC! Click here for tickets.   Kathryn Olivarius joins Bob & Ben to explain the powerful role that Yellow Fever played in shaping all aspects of life in New Orleans during the 19th century. Kathryn is Associate Professor of History at Stanford University and the authorNecropolis: Disease, Power & Capitalism in the Cotton Kingdom, (Harvard University Press, 2022).   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Our next live show is in Washington, DC on May 29! Click here for tickets.   Anne Tindall is Special Council at the non-partisan group Protect Democracy, where she works to ensure that elections are free and fair, to prevent political violence, and to secure accountability for abuses of power at the federal and state level. In this episode she joins us to talk about the still unsettled results of North Carolina's Supreme Court election from November, and Republican Jefferson Griffin's attempt to convince the courts to throw out sixty thousand ballots in a race where his challenger, incumbent Allison Riggs, won by just 734 votes. Anne explains what makes this case unique in the history of American elections and why it may set a dangerous precedent that could weaken voting rights for citizens across the country regardless of political party.   Click here to read the Electoral Integrity Project data that Anna discussed in this episode.   This conversation was recorded on February 27, 2025. Gary Fletcher edited this episode.

Just announced: The next Road to Now Live is May 29 at The Hamilton Live in Washington, DC! Click here to get your tickets!   Between 1933 and 1942, the Civilian Conservation Corps enlisted more than three million young men in a project that planted two billion trees, slowed soil erosion on forty million acres of farmland, and enjoyed support across political and geographic divides. In this episode we talk with Neil Maher, author of Nature's New Deal: The Civilian Conservation Corps and the Roots of the American Environmental Movement (Oxford University Press, 2008) about how the CCC helped solidify FDR's New Deal and spread the seeds of environmental activism for generations to come.   Dr. Neil Maher is a Professor of History and Master Teacher in the Federated History Department at the New Jersey Institute of Technology and Rutgers University-Newark. He is also the author of Apollo in the Age of Aquarius (Harvard University Press, 2017). You can find out more about his work at NeilMaher.com.     This is a rebroadcast of episode #274 which aired as The Original Green New Deal: The Civilian Conservation Corps with Neil Mahr on May 29, 2023. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Stephanie E. Jones-Rogers' is a historian whose work has shed new light on the roles that women played in American slavery. In this episode, she joins Ben and Bob to share some of the significant findings of her work, the sources she's used to learn more about enslaved people and female slaveowners, and her new project, which reorients our understanding of the British Atlantic slave trade by centering the story on the lives of both free and captive women. Dr. Stephanie E. Jones-Rogers is Associate Professor of History at the University California, Berkeley and the author of the award-winning book They Were Her Property: White Women as Slave Owners in the American South (Yale University Press, 2019). She is also one of the recipients of the 2023 Dan David Prize, which recognizes outstanding scholarship that illuminates the past and seeks to anchor public discourse in a deeper understanding of history.   This episode was originally aired as episode #270 on April 24, 2023. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer. 

What does it mean to be different? This is the question Bob explores with author and President of the Word of South book and music festival, Mark Mustian, as they discuss his new historical-fiction novel, "The Boy with Wings." Set against the backdrop of a traveling freak show in the American South during the 1930s, the narrative follows the poignant journey of Johnny Cruel, a young man born with a distinctive birthmark that renders him an outcast. Historical fiction is a rarity on The Road to Now, so this is a truly special episode that you do not want to miss. Bob and Mark also discuss the Word of South book and music festival held every April in Tallahassee, Florida.   Boy with Wings is out on March 15 from Köehler Books- click here for links to (pre)order your copy.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

This week, we're revisiting one of our favorite conversations! During a past trip to Denver, Bob and Ben had the privilege of sitting down with journalist and historian Dick Kreck at the historic Brown Palace Hotel to discuss the fascinating history of Denver and its development in the 19th and early 20th centuries. With more than four decades of experience as a reporter for The San Francisco Examiner, The LA Times, and The Denver Post, Kreck has also published numerous books on the history of Colorado and the American West. In this episode, he shares his incredible insights on western migration, the construction of the transcontinental railroad, and how the Denver of today reflects its storied past. We are reairing this episode in memory of Dick Kreck, who passed away on December 4, 2024. You can read his obituary here.    

This week, we welcome back to the program the Director of the Center for Public Opinion and Policy Research at Winthrop University, Dr. Scott Huffmon. We usually have Dr. Huffmon on to discuss the prestigious Winthrop Poll, known as the most reliable and comprehensive poll regarding issues and politics in South Carolina. Today, however, Dr. Huffmon joins us to discuss a fascinating class he teaches: Politics and Society in Middle Earth: The Lord of the Rings. What can Tolkien's epic fantasy trilogy, with its themes of alliances and rivalries between individuals from different races, teach us about society and politics in our own time? Let's find out. You can follow Dr. Huffmon on X at @HuffmonPolitics.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. 

Partisanship. What is it good for? Most people these days would say, “Absolutely nothing.” Julian Zelizer might reply, “Not so fast.” This week on the Road to Now we welcome backt to the show the Malcom Stevenson Forbes Professor of History and Public Affairs at Princeton University, and CNN Political Analyst, Julian Zelizer to discuss his new book, In Defense of Partisanship. Zelizer argues that partisanship is not inherently detrimental to democracy. Instead, he contends that a healthy and vibrant political system requires robust and principled parties that clearly articulate their policy positions and engage in spirited debate. Through historical examples and contemporary analysis, Zelizer illustrates how partisanship has historically facilitated significant political and social advancements. Zelizer posits that today we are dealing with the negative effects of hyper partisanship, and that rather than seeking to eliminate partisanship altogether, efforts should be made to foster a political environment where constructive partisanship thrives. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Nazi regime that came to power in Germany in 1933 unleashed the most brutal and comprehensive war that humanity has ever seen. The horrors of the Nazis and the destruction they left behind is something most of us learned about in history class, but for Gerd Schroth it is the story of his childhood. Born in Germany in 1938, Gerd came of age on the scorched earth left behind by the German war machine. Gerd's father had joined the Nazi party because he thought Hitler could restore Germany's greatness, but he bequeathed to his children a world in ruins. More than seven decades after the end of World War II, Gerd is still writing the story of his life. He is now an American citizen, and his children were born in the United States. Gerd has moved on from the tragedy of his youth, but he has never forgotten it. He has thought a lot about how his parents' generation and why they embraced the horrifying ideology of Nazism. He has found value in past traditions while abhorring the actions of his ancestors. And in doing this, he has built a much stronger legacy for future generations. In this episode of The Road to Now, we share Gerd Schroth's personal story of his life as a Citizen of Nazi Germany, refugee, immigrant, and now, American Citizen. We are reairing this episode in honor of Mr. Schroth, who passed away in January of 2025. This episode originally aired on September 18, 2017 and was edited and produced by Bob Crawford and Pete Schroth.

Martin Van Buren served just one term as President from 1837 to 1841, but as the architect behind the founding of the Democratic Party, his legacy lives on in the US today. In this episode, we speak with James M. Bradley, author of the new book Martin Van Buren: America's First Politician, to learn how Van Buren helped reshape politics in the 19th century and laid the groundwork for America's two-party system.   You can learn more about the work being done to preserve the papers of Martin Van Buren at VanBurenPapers.org.     This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.   

Ben & Bob recap 2024, what they learned this year and what might be in store for 2025. Happy New Year!   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

It's Christmas time and this week we're resharing the original RTN Christmas Classic! Christmas expert James Cooper joins Bob and Ben to explain how Santa Claus, Christmas trees, and other Christmas traditions made their way into popular culture. He also shares stories of lesser known traditions, such as setting fire to the giant Swedish straw goat known as the Gävlebocken! You can find out more about the history of Santa Claus and Christmas at James Cooper's website WhyChristmas.com This is a rebroadcast of RTN #82, which originally aired on December 18, 2017. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer. 

Dr. Eric Smoodin, film historian at the University of California- Davis and author of Regarding Frank Capra: Audience, Celebrity and American Film Studies, 1930-1960, joins Bob and Ben for the history of the people, the industry, and law that made Frank Capra's 1946 film It's A Wonderful Life into one of America's quintessential Christmas films.     This is a rebroadcast of episode 292 which originally aired on December 11, 2023. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Journalist Michael Tackett joins Ben & Bob to discuss his new book The Price of Power: How Mitch McConnell Mastered the Senate, Changed America and Lost his Party (Simon & Schuster, 2024). Tackett, who wrote the biography with McConnell's consent, was granted unprecedented access to McConnell's vast personal archives, his staff, and even the Senator himself, who sat for about 50 hours of interviews. If you've ever wondered how Mitch McConnell rose to power, how he's stayed there despite challenges from both parties, or what makes the man tick, this conversation has the answers.   Michael Tackett covers national politics for The New York Times. His work has earned him multiple awards, including the Pulitzer Prize and the Edgar A. Poe Award for National Reporting.   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Mark McKinnon is former chief media advisor to George W. Bush & John McCain, cocreator of Showtime's The Circus, and current writer at Vanity Fair. In this episode, he joins Ben & Bob to recap the 2024 election and what they think might come next.   Click here to read Mark's “An Open Letter to My Daughter,” published November 6, 2024 in Vanity Fair.   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

The Miss America pageant has always had its critics, but the stories of the organization and those who participated in it are far more dynamic than most people recognize. In this episode, Bob & Ben speak with Amy Argetsinger whose new book There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America explains Miss America's origins, how the pageant both shaped and was shaped by American society, and why it might be okay that the pageant's significance in American culture has faded.   Bonus: Bob calls Miss USA “the confederacy of beauty pageants.” Listen to find out why that makes sense!   Amy Argetsinger is an editor for The Washington Post's acclaimed Style section, where she has overseen coverage of media, popular culture, politics and society. Her new book There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America was published by Atria//One Signal Publishers in September of 2021. You can follow Amy on twitter at @AmyArgetsinger.   This is a rebroadcast of episode 210, which originally aired in October 2021. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.

James Armistead Lafayette lived a remarkable life. After being granted permission by his enslaver to enlist in the cause, James joined up with the Marquis de Lafayette and served as one of the most important spies in the Revolutionary war. After many years of petitioning for his freedom, James eventually gained his freedom and officially changed his last name to Lafayette after the Frenchman with which he served and who later petitioned Congress for James' freedom.   In this episode, we learn more about the fascinating life of James Armistead Lafayette from Stephen Seals, the historical interpreter who has played James at Colonial Williamsburg for more than a decade.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Did you know that Woodrow Wilson didn't have a regular job until he was 28 years old? Or that he didn't complete all the requirements for a PhD? After retiring from politics in 2009, former Congressman and Securities & Exchange Commission Chair Christopher Cox decided to turn to history. The result is his new book, Woodrow Wilson: The Light Withdrawn, which gives special attention to Wilson's views on race and women's rights, presenting the 28thPresident as “a man superbly unsuited to the moment when he ascended to the Presidency.” In this episode, Chris joins us to share the path that led him to Woodrow Wilson, the reasons he came to such an unfavorable opinion of him, and what his work adds to our understanding of a Presidency that has rapidly gone from reverence to rebuke.   Find out more about the book at thelightwithdrawn.com.   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer

Most Americans are aware of Colombia's role in the international drug trade, but we know less about the role that Americans' played in the story as consumers, smuggling pioneers, and practitioners of a foreign policy that facilitated the rise of Colombian drug production.   In this episode, journalist and historian Lina Britto shares the fascinating story of how Colombia emerged as a major supplier of drugs to American consumers and how this relationship affected people in both countries. She also explains the origins of the “War on Drugs” in the US and tells the story of how Americans hippies in search of marijuana laid the groundwork for the distribution techniques later used by Pablo Escobar's cocaine cartel.   Dr. Lina Britto is Associate Professor of History at Northwestern University where she specializes in Colombian history and the history of the international drug trade. She is the author of Marijuana Boom: The Rise and Fall of Colombia's First Drug Paradise (University of California Press, 2020)   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

US immigration policy has become one of the most contentious issues in American politics, but there is one point on which most of us agree: our immigration policy is broken. And while the sheer number of interests involved mean that an easy fix is unlikely, the best place to start is with a sound understanding of how we got the immigration system we have today. As a historian of immigration who currently serves as Director for the Americas and Europe at Refugees International, Yael Schacher has a particularly well informed perspective on this issue. In this episode, Yael walks us through the history of immigration policy in the US and shares what she sees as the major challenges that stand in the way of reforming our current immigration system. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

It's flu season, so this week on the show, we're bringing you something seasonal: a history of epidemics in two parts. In part 1, we talk about the 1918 influenza outbreak with John Barry, author of the NY Times Best-seller Seller The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History (Penguin, 2005). And in part 2 we dig into the history of infectious disease with epidemiologist Erin Welsh, co-host of This Podcast Will Kill You. This episode is a supercut of #120 The History of Influenza w/ John Barry and #151 Live in Chicago w/ Pete Souza & Erin Welsh, both of which originally aired in 2019. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

The Constitution empowers the electoral college to select the President, but the process for counting electors' votes remains in the hands of Congress. In this episode, Constitutional Law Professor Edward Foley explains the origins of the electoral college, how and why the 12th Amendment changed the process for electing Presidents, and the concerns that led Congress to codify the procedure for counting electors' votes in 1887. Edward also offers some specific ways that updating the Electoral Count Act of 1887 might help us avoid some of the potential problems that might arise in upcoming elections.   Edward Foley holds the Ebersold Chair in Constitutional Law at The Ohio State University, where he also directs its election law program. He is a regular contributor to The Washington Post and the author of multiple books, including Ballot Battles: The History of Disputed Elections in the United States (Oxford University Press, 2016) and Presidential Elections and Majority Rule (Oxford University Press, 2020). You can follow him on twitter at @NedFoley.   This is a rebroadcast of RTN #224 which originally aired on February 21, 2022. This version has been updated and abridged by Ben Sawyer. The original episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Most accounts of women in mid-20th century American politics highlight trailblazers such as Frances Perkins or the handful of women elected to Congress in those years. But women's participation in politics- both as voters and as party activists- was far more significant than most Americans realize, elevating a group of white middle-class women into positions of influence over Presidents from Franklin Roosevelt to Dwight Eisenhower.   Melissa Blair joins Ben & Bob to talk about how and why these women became cornerstones of party politics in these years and why they've largely been forgotten in our national memory. Melissa's book, Bringing Home the White House: The Hidden History of Women Who Shaped the Presidency in the Twentieth Century, chronicles the lives of five influential women whose work was critical in helping their party's candidate win the White House in this era.   Melissa Estes Blair is a Professor of History at Auburn University whose research focuses on women and politics in the United States in the twentieth century.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

On the surface, the election of 1872 might seem insignificant in US history; Ulysses Grant easily won reelection to the White House and his Republican Party maintained their dominance in both houses of Congress. In the south, however, the violence that followed the election at the state and local level was an ominous sign that the era of Reconstruction might soon be over. And, according to Dana Bash and her co-author David Fischer, nowhere saw more violence than Louisiana. In this episode, Dana joins Ben & Bob to discuss her new book America's Deadliest Election: The Cautionary Tale of the Most Violent Election in American History, and how the violence that followed the 1872 election in Louisiana – including the slaughter of 150 unarmed black Americans in the small town of Colfax – laid the foundation for the restoration of white supremacy in the south. Dana Bash is chief political correspondent at CNN, where she also anchors Inside Politics and co-anchors State of the Union alongside Jake Tapper. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

In 2021, Neil King Jr. threw a few basic items into a backpack and walked from his home in Washington, DC to New York City. Over the next 26 days/330 miles, he met new people, uncovered forgotten moments of history, and spent many days thinking about America. In this episode, Neil joins Ben and Bob to discuss his book, American Ramble: A Walk of Memory and Renewal, and the lessons he learned along the way. Before walking from his house in DC to New York City, Neil King Jr. worked as a journalist for outlets across the globe, including The Tampa Tribune, The Prague Post, and The Wall Street Journal. On Sept 17, 2024, Neil King Jr.. passed away at age 65 from complications caused by esophageal cancer. We are reairing this episode to celebrate the excellence of his work and as a reminder that we are surrounded by beauty. We hope that this conversation – which is just one tiny line in Neil's legacy- will help you to see the common ground we all share and the adventures that surround us if we just take the time to look. This episode originally aired as RTN #271 on May 1, 2023. The original episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer.

For a long time, it seemed like not much happened in the 1970s. Today it seems like so much of what's happening can be traced back to those same years. The 1970s was a pivotal decade in American history. In a ten-year span, the United States admitted defeat in Vietnam, saw a President (and Vice President) resign in shame, and came face to face with its leaders' abuse of power at home and abroad. At the same time, American citizens directly experienced a score of problems, including “stagflation,” an energy crisis, and the consequences of environmental devastation. Yet in this era of deconstruction and disappointment, the political coalitions than defined the US from the 1980s until (today/recently?) were forged. In this episode, Jefferson Cowie joins us to talk about his book Stayin Alive: The 1970s and the Last Days of the Working and what happened in the decade in which everything now seems to have happened. Dr. Jefferson Cowie is James G. Stahlman Professor of History at Vanderbilt University and the author of multiple award-winning books, including Freedom's Dominion: A Saga of White Resistance to Federal Power, which was awarded the Pulitzer Prize in 2023. You can hear him discuss Freedom's Dominion in episode #255, and check out his multiple appearances on the show by searching You can find out more about Jefferson Cowie and his work at his website by clicking here. This is a rebroadcast of episode #115, which originally aired on December 18, 2017. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.

The debates over school curriculum, banned books, and what educators can teach in their classes have become increasingly polarizing in recent years, but they are nothing new in the US. For those who researched, wrote and taught about the Soviet Union under Stalin during the Cold War, following the evidence to a conclusion that challenged America's established narrative could lead to denunciations and accusations of disloyalty. Despite this challenge, a generation of scholars dedicated their professional life to the study of Soviet history, generating far more in-depth and humane accounts of the past than the black and white narratives offered up by most political scientists and others who presented Soviet society as atomized and powerless. As one of the most prolific Russian historians of his generation, Lewis Siegelbaum knows this story well. In this episode, he joins us to discuss his new book, Reflections on Stalinism, in which he, co-editor Arch Getty and ten of their peers share their own reflections on how they came to study Soviet history, how the political environment affected their own work, and what they got right (and wrong) in their career. Lewis also shares his story of witnessing the unexpected collapse of the USSR, what we learned when Soviet archives opened in the 1990s, and how current events remain haunted by the simplistic view of Russian history to which many Americans still adhere. Dr. Lewis Siegelbaum is Jack and Margaret Sweet Professor Emeritus of History at Michigan State University where he taught from 1983 until 2018. He has authored multiple award-winning books on Soviet history, including Cars for Comrades: The Life of the Soviet Automobile, and served as doctoral advisor to many aspiring scholars, including Ben Sawyer. If you're interested in learning more about Soviet history, we recommend that you check out the website Seventeen Moments in Soviet History, which Lewis cofounded and is the most widely-used online source for teaching and learning about Soviet history.    This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

John Adams' single term as President has long been cast as a low point in his political career, but Lindsay Chervinsky sees it differently. "George Washington created the Presidency,” she writes in her new book Making the Presidency, “but John Adams defined it.” In this episode, Lindsay joins us to share why she sees Adams as a crucial figure in transforming an office that had been established for, and created by, George Washington, into a position with the customs and practices that could be passed down through generations. Along the way, Lindsay explains why she thinks we've gotten Adams so wrong (hint: both Jefferson and Hamilton disliked his politics), the crucial role he played in establishing a peaceful transition of power, and how the January 6th insurrection might help us all have a greater appreciation for President John Adams. Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky is the Executive Director of the George Washington Presidential Library and author of the new book Making the Presidency: John Adams and the Precedents That Forged the Republic, which is out September 5th, 2024 from Oxford University Press. You can find out more about her work at her website: lindsaychervinsky.com If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to check out Lindsay Chervinsky's  previous RTN appearances on The Road to Now: ·      #184: The President's Cabinet ·      #263: Mourning the Presidents ·      #296: The Election of 1824 (Part 1 in our Third Party Elections Series)   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher

The 2024 Presidential election is in full swing and so is the parade of personal attacks, appeals to emotion and (most important for us) grandiose and unsubstantiated claims about history. And of the many statements that fall in that last category, one stands out as both exceptionally ridiculous and a perfect setup to connect today's politics to the past: Donald Trump's claim that Kamala Harris is “considered the worst Vice President in history.”   Much like Trump himself, who followed by saying “I don't know who the hell did that, if they do polls…” we couldn't find any valid ranking of all 49 Vice Presidents, let alone one that ranked Harris in last place. So we decided to take the issue on ourselves and ask you to help us elect the candidate that you think deserves the title of “America's Worst Vice President.”   To help you make your choice, Vanderbilt historian and This Day in Esoteric Political History co-host Nicole Hemmer joins Ben to explain the power and responsibilities allocated to the Vice President under the Constitution, the history of the office itself, and the changes brought about by the 12th and 25th Amendments. Most importantly, however, Ben and Niki make their pitches for who they think is the worst Vice President and reach consensus on the VPs who should be in the Final Four. The rest is up to you- you just have to vote:   Click here to vote in the Final Four (Voting Closes Sunday, Sept 1st at 3pm edt)*   *We're using the polling function on our Patreon page, but you do not need to be a patron to vote in this poll- it just makes it easier for us to centralize the votes in one place!   The Finals will open at 8pm on Monday, Sept 2nd and run until Sunday, Sept 8th. Click here to follow us on socials for links to vote when they become available.   This episode was recorded in the podcast studio at Vanderbilt University's Curb Center. A special thanks to the Curb Center's David Wilson and Gina Yu for their help in arranging this recording.   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.  

With a sitting VP running for President for the first time since Al Gore's failed bid for the White House in 2000, there's been a lot of talk about the role the VP plays in government, the impact a VP pick has on a Presidential campaign, and just how much Kamala Harris' record as VP/relationship to President Joe Biden can show us about her own agenda, should she win the White House. So today we begin a three-episode ­run focused on the Vice Presidency and those who have held the office with a conversation on Lyndon B. Johnson. Lyndon B. Johnson's Presidency is bookended by the tragedies of JFK's assassination and the escalation of the Vietnam war, but his career in politics and the policies he championed transcend his time in the Oval Office. In this episode, two of the foremost experts on LBJ, Mark Updegrove and Mark A. Lawrence, join Bob & Ben to discuss Johnson's life and legacy. Mark Updegrove is the President & CEO of the LBJ Foundation in Austin, TX, the presidential historian for ABC News, and the author of multiple books on Presidential History, including Indomitable Will: LBJ in the Presidency. Dr. Mark Atwood Lawrence  is Director of the LBJ Presidential Library and Museum and Associate Professor of History at UT-Austin. He is the author of multiple books on US history including The Vietnam War:  A Concise International History. This is a rebroadcast of RTN #256, which originally aired on December 12, 2022. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer.  

On August 15th, 1824, the Marquis de Lafayette returned to the United States for a grand farewell tour. It was his first visit since leaving the US in the late 1780s. The tour was a unifying moment for a deeply divided country.  In the wake of a crippling economic downturn, and a fracturing over the Missouri question and the issue of slavery, the nation was in the midst of a bitter Presidential election. The first without a political or military hero of the American Revolution on the ballot. Lafayette's visit, if only for a moment, reminded the nation of the Spirit of 76 and their beloved adopted French son.   Thanks to the organization, American Friends of Lafayette, for the next thirteen months, Lafayette 200 celebrations will retrace the steps of the Marquee de Lafayette's historic tour.   On this episode of the Road to Now we welcome Historical Interpreter, Mark Schneider. Mark has embodied Lafayette for over 25 years. Along the way he has educated students of history young and old about Lafayette's life and the role he played in the American Revolution.   If you enjoy this episode, make sure to check out our episode on The Lafayette Trail w/ Julian Ischer on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major podcast apps.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Journalist David Menconi has documented the people and sounds of North Carolina's music scene for almost three decades. In this episode, Ben and guest co-host Dolph Ramseur speak with David about his book Step It Up and Go: The Story of North Carolina Popular Music, from Blind Boy Fuller and Doc Watson to Nina Simone and Superchunk, and how the music of “The Old North State” is both reflected in, and a reflection of, its people. David Menconi spent 28 years writing for the Raleigh News & Observer and was Piedmont Laureate in 2019. His other works include Ryan Adams: Losering, A Story of Whiskeytown" (University of Texas Press, 2012); "Comin' Right at Ya: How a Jewish Yankee Hippie Went Country, or, the Often Outrageous History of Asleep at the Wheel. (co-written with Ray Benson, University of Texas Press, 2015). You can follow him on twitter at @NCDavidMenconi. Guest co-host Dolph Ramseur is the founder of Ramseur Records and a member of the North Carolina Hall of Fame. If you enjoy this episode, make sure to check out David's second appearance on our show in episode #286 Rounder Records and the Transformation of American Roots Music.  If you're enjoying The Road to Now, please consider joining us on Patreon, giving us a 5 star rating/review on Apple podcasts and sharing this episode with a friend who might also enjoy it. Thank you! This is a rebroadcast of RTN #182, which originally aired on October 19, 2020. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer.   

The Stone Pony and its hometown of Asbury Park, New Jersey are iconic settings in the story of some of America's greatest rock musicians, including Bruce Springsteen, Steven Van Zandt, and Southside Johnny Lyon. The Pony's path from high-risk passion project to iconic venue was, however, anything but direct; from its founding in 1974, the club was caught in the greater forces at work in late-20th century America.   So how did the Stone Pony thrive when so many other venues closed? And what set Asbury Park apart from so many other American towns? In this episode, The New York Times' Nick Corasaniti joins us to talk about his new book I Don't Want To Go Home: The Oral History of the Stone Pony (Harpers, 2024) and what he learned from interviewing Bruce Springsteen and dozens of other musicians and industry professionals who helped make the club into what it is today.   If you enjoy this episode, make sure to check out our episodes on The Kinks with Mark Doyle and The Allman Brothers' At Fillmore East with Bob Beatty.   This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Joe Biden has decided to decline the Democratic nomination for the Presidency in 2024 so today we take a look back at Biden's path to seek the nomination in 2020 and Ben shares his thoughts on why July 21, 2024 might be the day that secures Biden's legacy in American history.   Our conversation with Robert Costa on his book Peril, which he co-authored with Robert Woodward, originally aired as RTN episode 213 on November 15, 2021. This episode includes an edited version of that conversation with a new introduction by Ben. The original episode description is below: The 2020 Presidential election was one of the most tumultuous in American history, and while Joe Biden's victory over Donald Trump is settled, Trump's refusal to accept defeat has had implications that transcend his time in the oval office. In this episode, Bob and Ben speak with Robert Costa, whose new book Peril draws on his and co-author Bob Woodward's extensive investigation of the Biden and Trump campaigns and Trump's handling of executive power during his time in office. Robert explains how he finds and vets sources, his method of “deep background” interviews, and how he maintains journalistic disinterest in the face of intense partisan conflict. He also discusses what he learned about Trump and Biden as candidates and individuals and why he believes that the peril that characterized the Trump-Biden transition remains a source of concern more than a year after the 2020 election.   Robert Costa is the chief election & campaign correspondent for CBS News, where he covers national politics and American democracy. You can follow him on twitter at @CostaReports.   If you enjoyed this conversation, check out our previous conversation with Robert in RTN #130 Sources, Methods & Music w/ Robert Costa.   “I think you've always been fair.” -Donald Trump to Robert Woodward Full Audio of Trump's phone call with Bob Woodward about the publication of Fear, August 14, 2018.   This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

When the Erie Canal opened in the 1820s, it brought with it an industrial system that radically transformed the daily lives of the American farmers who lived in the region. Out of this disruption came some of America's earliest labor actions, the rise of new Christian sects, and America's first daredevil, Sam Patch, who dazzled the masses and offended the powers that be simply by jumping off higher and higher things into water.   Why did Sam Patch become a national figure whose actions drew acclaim across the country? Why did those in power denounce Patch's exhibitions as “irrational fun” and seek to stop him from performing? And how does Patch's life tell the greater story of the Jacksonian Era and catch the attention of Jackson himself? The answers to all that and more are right here in Rivers Langley's expertly crafted story, as told to Ben and Narado Moore.   Rivers Langley is a Los Angeles-based comic, host of The Goods from the Woods podcast, and a scriptwriter for The Dollop. Links to Ben's appearances on TGFTW below.   Narado Moore is a Birmingham-based standup comic, host of the Uncle Rod's Story Corner podcast and co-host of Roy's Job Fair with Roy Wood Jr.   The story of Sam Patch, as told to Ben and Narado Moore was recorded in December, 2021 and originally aired as part of Goods From the Woods #310 “Sam Patch: America's First Daredevil w/ Ben Sawyer & Narado Moore. This episode includes a new introduction/conversation with Rivers Langley about Patch's place in history and how we can see his story in American life today. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.   Links:   “Confederate Submarine HL Hunley: A Terrible Idea w/ Ben Sawyer” from Goods From the Woods #203.   “The Destruction of the Georgia Guidestones w/ Ben Sawyer” clip from GFTW #337   “A Tour Guide's History of Los Angeles w/ Rivers Langley” RTN #202 – Spotify - Apple