All things J. R. R. Tolkien: his work, his inspirations and impact, creative interpretations in other media, languages, lore, ripoffs, parodies, anything we think is interesting!
Ned, Oriana, and Jared @ Megaphonic.fm
On the 1981 BBC radio adaptation of The Lord of the Rings.
On Lobelia Sackville-Baggins.
On The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim.
On The Adventures of Tom Bombadil.
On resisting Tolkien.
On allegory and applicability.
Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned's choice of topic: Terry Brooks's debut novel The Sword of Shannara. Released in 1977 after the author had been working on it for almost a decade, The Sword of Shannara became a massive publishing success for its then-new imprint Del Rey Books, helping to establish the viability of fantasy literature as a steady and profitable part of the book business as a whole, as well as starting Brooks's continuing writing career with a bang. At the same time, more than a few voices said in response to that success and the book itself that it was pretty clearly using The Lord of the Rings as a model, its own author having now been conveniently dead for a few years at the time of publication. This, as it happens, is a massive understatement – and more to the point it is an absolutely awful book, the success of which seen through the eyes of nearly fifty years later is almost impossible to imagine given both the expansion of the field in general and the fact that Tolkien is no longer solely the lodestone for young writers to look towards. What makes Brooks's work so remarkably un-Tolkien-like despite taking on many of its trappings, and are those trappings used well to start with? How does Brooks's desire to create a rollicking adventure story/page-turner play out in terms of actual story dynamics, character development and other rather important things a good book should have? How do the key themes of Tolkien in general not apply – or rather, get heavily misapplied or transformed – in Brooks's vision of a post-apocalyptic fantasy world? And do Jared and Oriana still wish Ned ill fortune for having made them read this? (Audibly so, yes.)Show Notes.Jared's doodle. If only the book were this exciting. Five years indeed! If you want the full story of how we all got started, as mentioned, Ned talks about that in the introduction to our live episode aka Episode 50 from last year.The big news about The Collected Poems of J.R.R. Tolkien, as reported on by Wayne Hammond and Christina Scull, its editors.The not-so-big, in fact really annoying, news about The Rings of Power Season 3 already being worked on. Lovely. Really.The Sword of Shannara! It's a book! Sure is a book!Dan Sinykin's 2023 Slate article “The Man Who Invented Fantasy,” which details Lester Del Rey's career and role in bringing Brooks to wider attention as part of his overall plans for Del Rey with his wife Judy-Lynn. So now you know who to blame.The Brothers Hildebrandt being recruited as the illustrators was a good move from a publishing point of view, especially then.Gene Wolfe's defense of Brooks is in his essay “The Best Introduction to the Mountains.”Our Dennis McKiernan/Silver Call duology episode.Our episode on the orcs. Gnomes they are not.Brooks's TED talk “Why I Write About Elves”.You want to watch The Shannara Chronicles? Enjoy. Without us.Support By-The-Bywater (and our network) on Patreon, and you can hang out with us in a friendly Discord.
On Terry Brooks's novel The Sword of Shannara.
Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Jared's choice of topic: Beowulf. The famed Old English poem, the longest extant poetic work in general preserved in that language, almost accidentally survived over the years until it became more widely recognized in the 1700s, including surviving a fire. It has since become a cornerstone of studies of English literature, telling the story of a heroic Geat warrior who defeats two monstrous presences on a visit to an afflicted Danish kingdom, and who in later years as an aging king slays a dragon at the cost of his life and, it is strongly implied, his kingdom's. Tolkien knew the work thoroughly and regularly taught it in his academic career, leading to both a prose translation and various notes and commentaries that Christopher Tolkien presented and edited for a 2015 publication. But besides the notable connections that can be made between the poem and elements of his own legendarium, Tolkien has a further place in Beowulf scholarship thanks to his most famed academic work, the 1936 lecture “Beowulf: The Monsters and The Critics,” which single-handedly reframed the poem from being primarily seen as a historical document to being considered as a remarkable work of imagination. What are some of the key differences between Beowulf's world and ethos and Tolkien's own reworking of it into his legendarium, in terms of character, society and more? What points does Tolkien bring up in his lecture that provides a deeper insight into how he was not only arguing for the Beowulf poet – whoever it might be – but also placing his own work into that lineage? How do the portrayals of the various monsters Beowulf faces differ, and what in particular makes Grendel's mother such a fascinating character? And how many moments per episode are points raised and then suddenly realized to be maybe not accurate? (Sorry about that.)Show Notes.Jared's doodle. Gotta be careful with dragons.Ooooooh boy, the angst this Fellowship of Fans post unleashed in some corners when it came to Rings of Power rumors. (On a side note, RoP's Morfydd Clark is in the new two part Agatha Christie Murder is Easy adaptation on Britbox and is unsurprisingly really good!)The whole Matthew Weiner spoiler-war thing re Mad Men was a thing. Was it ever a thing. Here's a sample.Beowulf! You might have heard of it. Plenty of translations freely available, and of course there's Seamus Heaney and Maria Dahvana Headley and etc. And yes there's Tolkien's too.“HWAET!” (Tolkien allegedly really loved to get his students' attention by delivering this full on.)If you haven't read “Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics,” we really do encourage this. (And picking up the full essay anthology too, key pieces like “A Secret Vice” and “On Fairy-Stories” are included among others.)Kennings are very cool. (But please avoid ‘whale road.')Imagining Tolkien delivering this to the other Beowulf critics is something wild to think about.There's a wide variety of pieces about the women of Beowulf out there; here's one that provides a general summary and consideration about them.If you'd like to see the Nowell Codex, head on over to the British Library, physically or virtually.We've mentioned E. R. Eddison before. Definitely NOT Tolkien.The full historical background that Beowulf draws on is definitely there, though treating the poem as a history itself is not the way to go. Here's a useful piece tackling the history as such.The Geats aren't around as such anymore, and there are reasons for that…It's not directly mentioned in the episode but Tolkien did write and lecture about one of the ‘side' stories in Beowulf, with the results published in the book Finn and Hengest.Did we mention we're not impressed with Silicon Valley's take on Tolkien?Grendel's mother is, no question, awesome.Kenneth Grahame's “The Reluctant Dragon” – definitely not Smaug.“Sellic Spell” really is interesting, and may be the most notable part of the volume it's published in.Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead! (But avoid The 13th Warrior.)A last little bonus: didn't bring it up in the episode but Ned remembered seeing Robert Macneil's 1986 documentary series on PBS The Story of English back when it first ran, and the second episode, “The Mother Tongue,” has a brief bit discussing Beowulf and how it might have been performed as a song, as well as a separate section on the impact of the Viking invasions on English as a language led by noted Tolkien scholar and academic descendant Tom Shippey.Support By-The-Bywater (and our network) on Patreon, and you can hang out with us in a friendly Discord.
Silicon Valley's misinterpretations of Tolkien.
Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Oriana's choice of topic: Silicon Valley's misinterpretation and fetishization of Tolkien. Tolkien of course lived in a time where computers were mostly huge rooms containing one machine or two that he doubtless considered little more than another example of why the industrial age didn't suit his mindset on many fronts. But in the half-century since his death the PC era up through smartphones and TikTok have made the industry one of the biggest and most influential in the world – which is the problem. The issues discussed are hardly limited to them but two of its most well-known and notorious avatars in recent years, Peter Thiel and his protege Palmer Luckey, have among other things named various businesses of questionable use and worth (at best) after characters and terms from Tolkien's legendarium as part of their general quest to own everything and be everywhere whether one likes it or not. There is, however, the small problem that they think they might be Aragorns when it's much more accurate to call them Saruman and Wormtongue. What are the roots of Thiel's own particular worldview in particular, shaped by colonial legacies of the kind that Tolkien himself notably loathed? What are the various poisonous ironies of naming particular businesses after certain Tolkien-derived terms considering their original meaning and what they now represent? Can the Tolkien Estate themselves actually do anything about the use and misuse of such terms to start with? And why in the world did Thiel think that a good choice of quote from Tolkien was in fact a quote from an original Rankin-Bass song instead?Show Notes.Jared's doodle. Remember, the idea is to NOT be this kind of person.Queen Margrethe bows out, and hey, why not enjoy retirement?One of various pieces on Margrethe's Tolkien illustrations, with some relevant samples.We share TheOneRing.net's piece mentioned for reasons of completeness. Our eyes remain gimlet.Never invent the torment nexus.Peter Thiel. Great. Just great. The biography Oriana and Jared read for the episode was Max Chafkin's The Contrarian.Techno-fascism! RETVRN! Terms that should not exist but here we are. Umberto Eco's “Ur-Fascism” is worth your time.Palantir Technologies. Oh, how lovely. Human rights, what are those! And why are they even slightly involved with the NHS? (Beyond Tories being Tories.)Palmer Luckey. Another piece of work, for fun! Founder of Anduril Industries, about which this 2018 Wired article reveals more maybe than anyone involved intended.Ah, Ready Player One and Ernest Cline. We're…not fans.If you want to know our thoughts on “The Greatest Adventure” and more besides, enjoy our Rankin-Bass Hobbit episode…That whole taking your money with you when you die thing, jeez. Mother Jones with the details. As Ned said, go the Chinese burial money route instead.The Last Ringbearer aka the Russian LOTR revamp, as we've referred to before. Wicked the book is not Wicked the musical. (Soon to be Wicked the movie musical.)Tim Alberta's book, which probably isn't light nighttime reading, is The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory. This excerpt mentioned focuses on his father's church; the further anecdote recalled is from another piece elsewhere, possibly by Alberta.Tolkien Gateway has some of the further details from Unfinished Tales on palantir technology as such.The TechCrunch article about Anduril Industries's rather paranoid geopolitical dreams.Quick reminder about our orcs episode and the various issues that crop up with them. (Plus the Scouring of the Shire episode.)Blood in the Machine by Brian Merchant takes a proper historical look at the Luddites as part of a meditation on labor and Big Tech in the present.Thiel buying his New Zealand citizenship was not great! At least James Cameron put in the time and actually did stuff.Support By-The-Bywater through our network, Megaphonic, on Patreon! You can hang out with us in a friendly little Discord if you do.
The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien.
Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned's choice of topic: The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien. Following the publication of his official biography of Tolkien, Humphrey Carpenter worked with Christopher Tolkien to edit and present a selection of Tolkien's letters across the decades, originally appearing in 1981. Containing both a large swathe of personal detail about his life as an aspiring academic and young father, then an established professor and finally an increasingly popular author, it also presented a large amount of background information on Middle-earth via his exchanges with publishers, writers and readers, including some long letters that have remained touchstones of information on his creative process since. In late 2023, a new edition was published, which featured the entirety of the original selection that Carpenter and Christopher had created but had to trim down for initial publication, revealing various new facets of interest in particular about his own personal beliefs and philosophies across time. What areas of Tolkien's life remain relatively undiscussed or absent from the presented letters, and what can we deduce from the estate's choices to possibly not let that material be shared out? How do the ‘new' letters in particular fill out our understanding of Tolkien's Catholic beliefs, especially in the context of mass and creative culture? Is there something to be said in how Tolkien may have changed or otherwise introduced more nuance into some of his more sweeping statements about women in his private correspondence as he aged, especially in contrast to his fellow Inklings? And finally, who wouldn't want to be the fly on the wall for that conversation between Tolkien, Robert Graves and Ava Gardner?Show Notes.Jared's doodle. Something about a lovely start to a letter…Remember, join the Megaphonic Patreon! Listen to us and everyone else talk about the movie musical Scrooge! (Spoiler: we were not pleased.)Did we mention preordering Jared's book? Let's mention it again.Here's preorder info for that British Library talk on Twenty First Century Tolkien. Looks like it could be good!In which writing an unauthorized sequel to The Lord of the Rings further goes askew. Demetrious Polychron really, really does try. But.Our Dennis McKiernan/Silver Call duology episode. It really is better in comparison!Ah, cotillions. Look, you want them, have them, but maybe not around the Shire?AO3…waits.The letters! (New edition that is!) It is a very, very thick book.Letter 131 is a doozy! These days it's most often seen appended to the more recent edition of The Silmarillion.That withdrawn article on Edith Bratt, as much as remains in the journal listing. Who knows?Zero inbox, the blessed and unachievable state.Worth briefly noting The Tolkien Family Album, written and presented by John (the younger) and Priscilla Tolkien.Vatican II's impact is still very much with us…The Power Broker once again. (Consider our episode on evil.)Yeahhhhhh the Spanish Civil War. Not pretty at all.Tolkien and anarchism, there's a lot of talk about that out there. (Tolkien balancing out anarchism and monarchism? Somehow he did it…) As for the Shire as society and what it does or doesn't have, consider our episode (and the Gollum one with the murder mystery!)The Song of Bernadette! It really hit Tolkien hard, this film. (Vincent Price in fact played “Vital Dutour, Imperial Prosecutor” but he would have been a great Mary.) And hey if you ever want to visit Lourdes…Milton and Tolkien would have been at total odds in terms of religion but they absolutely agreed on the joy of sex. (Do a search for the line “This said unanimous, and other rites” and read further.)Our episode on Aldarion and Erendis. Still a remarkable story.Gloria Steinem as a Tolkien correspondent, that's a vision.C.S Lewis and women…well THAT'S a subject.The 1955 radio version of The Lord of the Rings is lost as noted but as the Wikipedia entry notes, the script itself survives at least. As for the 1968 radio Hobbit adaptation, indeed curious that there's nothing from Tolkien about it…Robert Graves! Was he a snack in his youth, Sigurd-like? Hey, you be the judge.Ava Gardner! Pretty awesome, really. (And she did live in the UK for the last decades of her life so why not attend an Oxford lecture?)One of John Scalzi's various posts talking about the idea of ‘convention famous.' Makes total sense!Again, consider supporting our network, Megaphonic, to help us make the show, and to join us on a friendly little Discord! Thank you if you do.
Peter Jackson's version of The Return of the King.
Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss their collective choice of topic: Peter Jackson's version of The Return of the King. It's been twenty years since the conclusion of Jackson's three-film effort to adapt the entire Lord of the Rings was released, and it was easily the biggest profile release of the series, coming in with massive interest and attention, setting a variety of box office records in the process along with gaining widespread critical acclaim. It all resulted in a series of worldwide film awards and honors culminating with a famed clean sweep of Oscar wins including best picture, resulting in a tie with Titanic and Ben-Hur with eleven Oscars total but also the only one of those three films to literally win every category it was nominated for, a combined record that still stands. The film's general impact and that of the series as a whole is at this point undeniable, but how it holds up in a look back, caught somewhat between Fellowship's own unquestionable triumph and Two Towers's more stop-and-go successes, warrants its own discussion. What are the many changes made to the tangled relationship between Frodo, Sam and Gollum, and how does that play out as a result for both the film and the wider themes? How does the use of practical models and actual landscapes feed into the feeling of how the film both landed in the moment and held up upon later rewatching, even while it was also the biggest demonstration yet of the possibilities for CGI with massive military clashes and the like? Is it possible to actually lose count of just how many remarkable moments on a grand scale exist throughout the film, even as there are various “well, but…” caveats and questions to raise along the way? How has the whole series of film changed both the perceptions of Tolkien and the film industry in general? And how many endings are there, after all? (Surprise! It never ended, it's running somewhere in a theater right now, maybe.)Show Notes.Jared's doodle. And that's another epic trilogy down. (The earlier entries here and here.)Hurrah for the SAG-AFTRA strike ending and better (not perfect!) terms won.Our episode on evil. Evil!TheOneRing.net report on the return of the Eagle & Child pub. Jason Horowitz's New York Times story about that Italian Tolkien exhibition encouraged by Italy's favorite fascists. Sorry, did we say the quiet part out loud? (In the Guardian, Jamie Mackey with more context.)Our episodes on Peter Jackson's The Fellowship of the Ring and The Two Towers, with lots of notes about the series as a whole so we won't repeat everything here…The sole trailer for The Return of the King. But that's all they needed.Trilogy Tuesday! It was a crazy time and it was great. Here's a photo of the all-day pass given out, and here's an example of that film frame memento given out as well. The opening scene is really something, no lie. Friendly little worm there.The screenwriting guru Ned mentions is Robert McKee – per Brian Sibley's Peter Jackson biography, McKee had come to Wellington, New Zealand to give one of his lectures in 1988, and the New Zealand Film Commission invited Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh and future contributing screenwriter for The Two Towers Stephen Sinclair to it and they all apparently took it very much to heart. So a long term impact but even so.The opening exchange between Sam, Frodo and Gollum. Really are some beautifully shot moments in this sequence.Oh did Christopher Lee have things to say in the run-up to the theatrical release.Our episode on the Rankin-Bass Return of the King. It is NOT very good.Yeah yeah the Arwen vision and Arwen dying and…well whatever.But boy that introduction to Minas Tirith. THAT'S how to make an entrance.And the beacons sequence, wow, still. Time zone issues aside.For examples of the Gondor theme earlier on in the series, skip ahead to about a minute into this clip.Ride the Empire Builder! If you like.Hurrah for John Noble (and hurrah for Fringe). Skip ahead three minutes for “The rule of Gondor is MINE!” moment, and the parting between Denethor and Faramir, phew.Minas Morgul, a triumph of John Howe design, glowing and clamped. (The skybeam is the skybeam but the sonic buildup rules.)The Holdo maneuver (it really was great, like the film itself)When Theoden and Eowyn part at Dunharrow, boy that'll ruin ya. That's two good actors very much in the moment.When Aragorn and Eowyn part at Dunharrow, it is very…shippy.“...and Rohan will answer!” Perfect.“The stars are veiled.” Are they, Legolas?Oh you know the Shelob scene. You know. “The Edge of Night” sequence is unnerving, beautiful and horribly sad.The Nazgul as the angels of death, in essence. However petty.Grond! It is great design for sure, plus armored trolls.Gothmog isn't bothered with your petty trebuchets.The Ride of the Rohirrim. No notes. But here come the mumakil…“I am no man!” Yeah, it rules.Air Bud, the lingua franca of us all.That crazy Witch-king mace. Gotta love it.And indeed skip ahead to the end of the clip for that mumak takedown by the scrubbing bubbles. Plus Tracy Jordan with the wisdom. It still only counts as one, we guess.Sam finds Frodo in Cirith Ungol – it's a good moment!“On this good earth!” (Well, maybe not GREAT earth.)“I can carry you!” A beautiful sequence, no doubt.The Crack of Doom. Great acting moments, wonderful moment for Gollum, but not over the cliff again…And yeah when Mount Doom completely explodes…Will they? Won't they?A great way to do individual bows via a movie.“You bow to NO one.” (Cue big emotions.)A wordless toast indeed. And a pumpkin. (And a case of the not gays.)The Grey Havens sends us off. It really is a great Turner-inspired scene.“Into the West” and the end credit portraits. Great job Annie. (The young filmmaker who passed was Cameron Duncan, to correct Ned there.)The Triplets of Belleville is a real treat, see it when you can.Enjoy all the Oscar wins!Ah yes the Eragon movie. Welp.And the Chronicles of Narnia tried. But. (Good luck Greta!)This ran after the episode was recorded but the LA Times had a piece on the movie anniversary and its impact, especially in New Zealand itself.Our Rings of Power and Hobbit films episodes have more about our general qualms there.Want to hear those exclusive podcasts we're talking about on Megaphonic? Join the Patreon! And you can check out Kitchen Party here.
All about the Noldor.
Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Oriana's choice of topic: the Noldor. Also termed the Deep-elves and, in early versions of the legendarium, the Gnomes – thankfully changed given unavoidable associations – they were one of the three ethnicities of the Eldar in general, the first Children of Iluvatar. As compared to the serene Vanyar and the many generally lower-key societies of the Teleri, the Noldor were the ones most driven by the desire to create and to learn about the world in general, though these tendencies, exacerbated by Melkor in his Valinorean captivity and the internal family strife of their royal house, resulted in all the many deeds of fame in Middle-earth on the one hand but also their near total destruction and eventual fading away on the other. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, only small societies and remnants were left, casting an influence on the course of events but not directing them. What can we learn from the stories of the women of the Noldor in particular, not just Galadriel but other figures such as Fëanor's mother Míriel and his wife Nerdanel or the Nargothrond princess Finduilas? What throughlines did Tolkien suggest in terms of how the Noldor both seemed the most human of the Elves as well as being driven by the same ambiguous creative impulses that haunted any number of beings in the legendarium? How does the decision to keep them from the center of the many arcs of The Lord of the Rings help shape the book into being the story that it is? And just how much of an obsessive creative type do you have to be to not only devise the writing system for your culture but to insist on sticking to a particular pronunciation because you're still mad about how things ended up with your family?Show Notes.Jared's doodle. Plus a bonus Galadriel-as-Carmen Miranda sketch. (The episode provides context. Sorta.)Negotiations, negotiations. The SAG-AFTRA strike has a lot of it.The new edition of the letters will be out in mid-November.Holly Ordway's book Tolkien's Faith.The Bandcamp Daily story on Jim Kirkwood and his early Tolkien-inspired work.Some details on Starve Acre, the new Morfydd Clark/Mat Smith folk horror film.I mean if you WANT the Tolkien Gateway definition of the Noldor…Recommending the Andy Serkis reading of The Silmarillion once more!Our episode on Galadriel.Turgon via Tolkien Gateway; relatedly, our episode on The Fall of Gondolin.Gildor Inglorion, a truly fascinating character, as is Voronwë.Míriel and Nerdanel – and they have stories that were not fully told…Glorfindel seems like he's about to be a major character in The Lord of the Rings…and then he's not!We discussed the Kinslaying as part of our episode on evil.Ah yes, The Shibboleth of Fëanor. Boy this is nuts. And great at the same time. Then there's the Oath of Fëanor. Maybe review the language first before you sign a contract.Our episodes on “Leaf by Niggle” (as part of Tree and Leaf) and Smith of Wootton Major.Finduilas – again, would be good to learn more about her! See also our episode on The Children of Húrin.And yes The Wheel of Time is really good. Really!Support By-The-Bywater and our network, Megaphonic, on Patreon, and hang out with us in a friendly Discord!
Tolkien's unfinished novel The Notion Club Papers.
Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned's choice of topic: The Notion Club Papers. Written in 1945 during a creative pause in completing the final third of The Lord of the Rings, The Notion Club Papers found Tolkien on familiar ground, creating a set of purported notes from regular club meetings among a group of Oxford professors much like himself and his fellow members of the famed Inklings. While not advancing beyond a couple of drafts and far from complete, the papers tell first of a professor who, due to a discussion on how spacecraft would work in science fiction, avers he has himself been able to travel in dreams through the reaches of space and meet other minds before returning to earth. One initially skeptical member over time then tells of his own unusual dream experiences, building up to a sudden moment during a massive storm where he invokes the language and imagery of the downfall of Númenor, in much the same fashion as The Lost Road did nearly a decade prior; related manuscripts found Tolkien revisiting the Númenorean story in particular, as well as speaking in detail about his invented language for the society. How does the novel's complicated structure work creatively, if at all, and is there something there that could have been developed further in later drafts? What does it mean that Tolkien seemed most at ease exploring the possible sources of his own creativity in such a second-hand fashion, even if the means by which he did so ended up being incredibly insular? What were the contemporary sources and inspirations for this effort among his fellow Inklings and beyond, and are there any parallels he acknowledges or, perhaps notably, ignores? And who wouldn't want to talk over the evident problems of medieval life while getting a haircut from Norman Keeps?Show Notes.Jared's doodle. This is why it's important to check the insulation on your windows.And indeed the WGA strike did end soon after we recorded our episode. SAG strike still ongoing for the moment!More from the Lord of the Rings musical revival, and who knows where it will go…Amazon's plans for ads for Prime Video, great. Lovely. Couldn't agree with that more. Yup.News about the Tales Of The Shire game and we are very curious indeed!Yeah that whole Warren Beatty Dick Tracy thing.There are indeed skeletons in Stardew Valley. (The upcoming game Ned mentioned is Wytchwood.)The Notion Club Papers! We recommend at least a little caffeine before reading.Knowing a little about the Inklings will not hurt at all when it comes to the Notion Club Papers.Socratic dialogue can indeed be rollicking.Our episode on “A Secret Vice.”Thomas Pynchon is out there and is happy not to be recognized.That Hideous Strength concludes the Space Trilogy by taking a Charles Williams direction (though as Jared notes, not very successfully).If you haven't seen Inspector Morse just ask a relative who still watches PBS a lot. (Because they've likely been watching Endeavour.)Interstellar is trippy, man. (In a formal Nolany way, but still.)The Great Storm of 1987 as reported on UK TV.“The Call of Cthulhu” is probably Lovecraft's most well known story. And boy does it have problems too!C. S. Lewis's “The Dark Tower” is a weirdly fascinating fragment, while An Experiment With Time by J. W. Dunne was a reference point for both Lewis and Tolkien in these works. Ringu aka The Ring, which of course has nothing to do with a certain other ring. We think.Monty Python's Constitutional Peasants, one of their most perfect moments.David Lindsay's A Voyage to Arcturus Tolkien definitely liked. The Worm Ouroboros by E. R. Eddison, rather more mixed. (And relatedly our episode on Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.)The Grink! (RIP Twitter, culturally at least, but Bluesky is starting to gel more.)Per Ned's closing comment, Roger Zelazny's A Night In The Lonesome October has become a seasonal classic of sorts. (And the Gahan Wilson illustrations inside are a delight.)Support By-The-Bywater through our network, Megaphonic, on Patreon and hang out with us in a friendly little Discord!
Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Jared's choice of topic: The Lost Road. In 1937, Tolkien agreed to C.S. Lewis's suggestion to try to write the kind of stories they enjoyed but didn't see good examples of to their liking. Lewis's efforts turned into what has been termed the Space Trilogy, starting with Out Of The Silent Planet. Tolkien's goal was a time travel story called The Lost Road, but outside of a few chapters and some potential outlines, it never got any further, with the success of The Hobbit and his resulting focus of attention being The Lord Of The Rings stopping any further development. It was eventually published in the Christopher Tolkien-edited series The History of Middle-earth, and was revealed to be a fascinating if very incomplete early conception of what Númenor was, including some of its key protagonists and antagonists at the time of its fall. How much does the story's self-evident autobiographical angle play into how we should regard the surviving chapters, and what do his choices about how to refocus or rewrite the story of his own life suggest in turn? What import do the specifically metaphysical elements of the story have for both Tolkien and his own conception of not only the legendarium but how he regarded language? Building off our previous discussion of the specifically Númenorean chapter in our episode on The Fall of Númenor, what is it about that sequence that is so unusual for Tolkien's general writing on Middle-earth, and how does it fit within the larger context of this story as it is told, or as much of it as we have? And finally, have you all pre-ordered Jared's book yet? Really, you should.Show Notes.Jared's doodle. I mean the whole skull thing is just plain rude.Jared's novel The West Passage is up for preorders! And you can see the cover art there as well, done by Kuri Huang – check out her work!Elliott Bay Book Company is indeed a great Seattle bookstore, check it out if you're ever there.Deadline's report about the rescheduled release of The War Of The Rohirrim, along with TheOneRing.net's further report also noting the potential production crunch that had been previously looming. (As a compare and contrast, here's Vulture's piece on the production nightmare of Spider-Man: Across The Spider-Verse and Screenrant's summary of a paywalled Insider article on the much more humane Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem production.)A summary of Embracer's money sillies. Well well well.The musical revival does seem to have landed rather well! Here's a fun little promo video, an engaging video review from an attendee, and TheOneRing.net's own report. (And of course, once more, here's our own episode on the original production.)The Lost Road! It's a curio, that's for sure, but an interesting one even in all its flaws and lacunae.C.S. Lewis's space trilogy. It's interesting…if a little uneven, let's say.As noted at various points, the Númenor chapter was already discussed on its own a bit in our episode on The Fall of Númenor. Want to know something about the Lombardic language? Well there's always Wikipedia…As for Middle-earth metaphysics, our episodes on The Nature of Middle-earth and the Valar are there for you!The Worm Ouroboros with the framing device with Lessingham. A common trope!Sycld Shefing! He got around.Corn? Maize? Here's a little more about it.So the actual Alboin was…not pleasant. And you better believe the skull thing was known by later artists.Kim Stanley Robinson's The Years of Rice and Salt, if you'd like to know more. (And then there's Harry Turtledove and then etc.)Our “A Secret Vice” episode, considering Tolkien's compulsion to create languages.Support By-The-Bywater and our network, Megaphonic. Thank you if you do.
Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Oriana's choice of topic: land. By default the Middle-earth legendarium is about a place that never was, however rooted in the actual planet we live on, and the range of details from sweeping mountains and vast continents to small roads and fields evident throughout the cycle of stories is a key part of what has made Tolkien's work so vivid and loved. Both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings are specifically about journeys as the key plotline, where characters move into spaces that they'd only heard about dimly or not at all as they seek to fulfill their aims. That said, there's certainly more than this to how Tolkien considers and situates the geography of his creation, including the in-universe explanations of that creation to start with and Melkor's marring of it. How has Tolkien's grounding of Middle-earth in the feeling of Northern Europe in general shaped perceptions of fantasy worlds since, and what authors and traditions have worked against it? What are the senses of how layers of history have both informed and shaped the land and the peoples who were and are there in the legendarium, and how does that emerge along the way as the stories progress? Have the expectations and experiences of quick and easy travel shaped our reaction to understanding how slow journeys are, especially on foot, as was the case for most of human history? And did the stones of Eregion indeed actually speak?SHOW NOTES.Jared's doodle. And who wouldn't enjoy that view, we ask?The WGA strike is of course still happening. And you should still support it! And the actors too!And indeed, Andy Serkis's The Silmarillion reading is out!So yes, not only did a fan purchase the Magic: The Gathering The One Ring card by lucky chance, following the episode recording he sold it to hardcore MTG fan Post Malone. Truly this is a world we are in.The promo performance of “Now And For Always” from the revival of the LOTR musical is pretty nice! Performances did start soon after the episode recording and an initial Guardian review was quite complimentary. More promo photos are available, and again there's always our episode on the original production…The Rings of Power Emmy nominations. Of course, when the Emmys themselves will happen is another matter.The Society of American Archivists' announcement of William Fliss's award for his continuing work with the Marquette University Tolkien archive.We meant to mention that fellow Megaphonic podcast The Spouter-Inn discussed The Fellowship of the Ring as part of a cluster of books about land, and then had Oriana on as a guest.Much of the Christopher Tolkien-edited History of Middle-earth series is essentially about Tolkien's decades-long process of setting down what Middle-earth actually was. Among the key books in the series in this regard are The Shaping of Middle-earth and Morgoth's Ring.I suspect most of us had our own Oregon Trail experiences.No, we are not going to relitigate the Eagles. Just listen to our episode.The article on Tolkien and Aldo Leopold is Lucas Niiler's 1999 piece “Green Reading: Tolkien, Leopold and the Land Ethic.”Who wouldn't love the Glittering Caves? (And indeed, check out our dwarves episode as well as our Ghân-Buri-Ghân episode.)Colonialism/imperialism and environmental destruction? Who could guess there'd be a connection. (Enjoy this book for some other light reading.)Very light, but this piece on Roman ruins in the present day helps underscore this sense of persistence into the present Tolkien captures well. (In contrast, the Duwamish have had to fight erasure.)If you want to go to Three Rivers, learn a little more about it.A 2015 Vox piece on the invention and criminalization of jaywalking.Peter Jackson's vision of Isengard as industrial hellhole. (The tree being flung down is at 1:20.)Earthsea is always a vibe but as Jared notes, check out Annals of the Western Shore.A Thousand Thousand Islands is indeed no longer going, sadly, but you can get a taste of it here.Guy Gavriel Kay's had quite the career!And indeed some younger authors to check out who aren't doing Europe all over again include R. F. Kuang and Tasha Suri.Fonda Lee has the Green Bone Saga to check out, aka the ‘Jade' series.And indeed the fan film Born of Hope about Arathorn is on YouTube!Support us and our network on Patreon and you can join us to talk Tolkien (and more!) in our friendly Discord.
Tolkien's posthumous collection The Fall of Númenor.
Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned's choice of topic: The Fall of Númenor. Published in fall of 2022, The Fall of Númenor is the most recent posthumously published collection of Middle-earth writings, acting as an overall guide to the Second Age of Middle-earth, with its key defining moments in Tolkien's legendarium being the fall of the titular kingdom of the Dúnedain and the subsequent Last Alliance's temporary defeat of Sauron. Given that most of the material the book draws on comes from a wide variety of other posthumous Tolkien publications, it can serve as a guide and introduction for those unaware of this deeper history to get a sense of how Tolkien envisioned, however haltingly in some cases, this particular era of his creation. But at the same time, since there is no new material presented in the first place, it can be argued in turn that there is little more here for some readers to learn about, while the fact that it was published in tandem with Amazon's Rings of Power series while not specifically calling attention to the general connection with that series's setting raises further overall questions. Does the book do a service in bringing the story of Aldarion and Erendis back to the fore after some decades, given its particular detail in comparison with the rest of the material presented? Is the choice of Alan Lee to present more illustrations as with other posthumous collections an understandable point of continuity or a sign of relying too much on one particular artistic vision of Middle-earth? Are there any particular details or points of interest that have sometimes been overlooked in Tolkien's conception of his world that come back to the fore more here as a result? And really…just what IS it with Elendil's description of his son at a couple of points?SHOW NOTES.Jared's doodle. Those birds have to be at least a little distressed.News of the expanded edition of The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien. 700 pages? Why not?A detailed report on The War of the Rohirrim's event at Annecy. Enjoy a separate interview as well.The Fall of Númenor. It fell indeed.Our episode on Aldarion and Erendis. Give it a listen, it's one of our favorites. Brian Sibley's done a lot. The Lost Road and Other Writings does have quite a lot to delve into.C. S. Lewis's space trilogy. It…goes places.The New Shadow and The Notion Club Papers are indeed very unusual and interesting.Nope, we're still not over The Rings of Power.Lebensraum, hoo boy. (We do not approve of the idea at all.)Mary Renault is truly a vibe and we appreciate her. And we love that she loved Tolkien's work in turn!Strictly speaking California doesn't have private beaches full on…but boy some try. Further discussion of the physical body in Tolkien can be found in the essay collection The Body in Tolkien's Legendarium.Alan Lee's illustrations of Sauron's Temple and Moria from the book.Mike Mignola would have been a fine addition for del Toro's planned Hobbit films. (And indeed, episode 50 is there for you.)Ah, David Brent.Our episode on orcs.Support By-The-Bywater through our network, Megaphonic, and hang out with us in a friendly Discord!
Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Jared's choice of topic: Sir Orfeo. The Orpheus myth is one of the most mysterious ones in the open-ended collection of tales that make up what is termed ‘Greek mythology,' something that Tolkien would have learned about by default as part of his standard late Victorian/Edwardian education. But his particular exploration of that myth wasn't via one of those texts, but a translation of a Middle English poem by an anonymous author, itself based on a Breton source, that fused elements of the most famous Orpheus story – trying to win back the love of his life from the land of the dead – with elements of Celtic faery and myth as well as recent English history. Yet Tolkien's work is one of his most mysterious efforts in turn, first presented by Christopher Tolkien along with the translations of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and Pearl, but, as the younger Tolkien explained, unaccompanied by any notes, introductory paragraphs or even an exact date of creation to determine what inspired him to make the translation or for what purpose it might have been intended. Can more be said about how old and familiar myths get reset and recontextualized across human history, reflecting the situations and biases of their times? Is there anything about the poem or the translation that stands out as uniquely or distinctly Tolkienian based on his other work? What about the land of the dead makes it such an unusual place all around, especially considering the fates of those who are there? And drawing on our separate news discussion about the continuing WGA strike and its impact on The Rings of Power season 2, how complicated is it to shoot a TV show anyway? (It's very complicated.)SHOW NOTES.Jared's doodle. Harps do have power in the right hands.Support the WGA strike! It'll help Oriana among many others. Lots of good pieces out there, including interviews with Michael Schur, David Simon and Hollywood Teamster leader Lindsay Dougherty, plus this barnburner of a piece from one of the striking writers, Ron Currie.The Rings of Power cast talk about things. Kinda vaguely, but anyway.So the WGA strike didn't deter Amazon from getting the second season of The Rings of Power done, apparently.Check out the Annecy International Animation Film Festival. Here's the page for The War of the Rohirrim.Sir Orfeo! Want to try and read along in the original? Here's one of the texts with some guidance as needed.The Orpheus myth is indeed pretty darned complex!David Graeber's Debt: The First 5000 Years? Well worth your time.The history of Winchester is a little involved…There's a fair amount out there about ‘the Greek tradition' and Victorians – have a read here for some more of that.As for the fairies/faery in Celtic tradition and the dead, there's a lot there too. Here's a starting point.Hadestown! It was and is a hit indeed. (And if you'd like to hear the original version.)Support By-The-Bywater and our network, Megaphonic. If you do, you can hang out with us in a members-only Discord and hear an exclusive interview with Jared.
Jared, Oriana and Ned appear live in Portland at Passages Bookshop to celebrate fifty episodes of By-the-Bywater and to talk about Oriana's choice of topic: Peter Jackson's adaptation of The Hobbit. To say that there was almost immediate speculation about whether or when Jackson would also adapt The Hobbit following the smash critical and commercial success of his Lord of the Rings films is to understate; over the following years there were further lawsuits, broken agreements, studio questions, planned directorial choices that mysteriously fell through and more besides that seemed to indicate it would be the biggest case of developmental hell ever. But eventually the films did start coming out in a similar yearly pace starting in December 2012, and certainly earned a fair amount of cash. Yet to say that the films have had anywhere near the level of widespread love and cultural staying power than The Lord of the Rings films is to deny the fundamental truth of how poorly these films have aged on several levels, and the various resultant impacts since, up to and including a literal rewriting of a country's laws to accommodate the production. What were the core differences between the two sets of adaptations on a structural level, and how did that play out in comparative terms? What technical achievements were made much of in the run up to the films' release, and what impact did they actually have? How did what should be a core relationship between the characters of Thorin and Bilbo get set up as a near love story, and how was that all ultimately undercut in the final edits? And really…Alfrid Lickspittle. REALLY?SHOW NOTES.Jared couldn't make a doodle for obvious reasons. But look here! Friend of the show and network Gabriel did sketch us!Big ups to Passages Bookshop! Owner David is a fine fellow and you should all check it out next time you're in Portland. Not only was there our live episode but there was an associated live bingo game for audience members. (Some people got close but nobody got it exactly – pity, that would have been amazing if that had happened!) Oriana's old podcast American Grift. It may yet return!Whitechapel! Steampunky, yes, but the drinks are great.Our first episode! Different days…The Hollywood Reporter story on Amazon Studio's somewhat flailing ways, especially in terms of The Rings of Power.That suit filed by the fanfic guy. Where to begin. And if you want the back cover of his totally original book The Fellowship of the King, here ya go. (Debutante ball. Really.)Don't forget Jared's upcoming novel!Our Silver Call duology episode – and our Rings of Power Season 1 episode.RIP Barry Humphries, Jackson's Goblin King.The Hobbit movies. Yup. That's them.We've linked them before but the three parts of Lindsay Ellis's analysis of The Hobbit films are really something special, a masterpiece of both analysis and reporting.Nathan Rabin's old Forgotbusters column for the Dissolve.Ah the Denny's menu. Testimony from one who survivedThe whole framerate thing was hyped almost as much as the 3D. And it was countered at the time, not just retrospectively…The opening sequence in Erebor is indeed a technical and artistic success. The escaping Goblin-town sequence…is not. The barrel escape definitely isn't.Dune and Goodnight Moon? Julia Yu has you covered.Thorin and Bilbo fan-art on Tumblr? Wouldn't know about that…Thorin's death scene with Bilbo? Very strong, very close in dialogue to the book too. The death scene after it? Well…The Tauriel issue. There's a lot.Martin Freeman and James Nesbitt can indeed do something together with a sense of dramatic heft and charisma, as seen in this scene from the first movie. Nothing like it happens again.Lee Pace really just needed to do this.The Thorin charge to Azog down the flaming tree, yeah…and the music with it? Why did they do that?Alfrid Lickspittle. Just, no. (We're sure Ryan Gage is lovely in his own right.)Yeah, Smaug the Golden was a nice touch.Support By-The-Bywater and Megaphonic and help us do more live events!
The Rankin-Bass adaptation of The Return of the King.
Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Ned's choice of topic: the Rankin-Bass adaptation of The Return of the King. When Rankin-Bass's 1977 adaptation of The Hobbit was shown on American network TV, the animation studio was already well into planning a further effort adapting The Lord of the Rings in some form as a sequel; the positive attention and ratings success of their Hobbit doubtless made them think they were on the right track. But when Arthur Rankin Jr. confessed in a 2003 interview that their version of The Return of the King was “not a very good film,” that was an understatement to say the least. While their Hobbit had flaws but was still a reasonably entertaining, focused translation of the story into a particular medium heightened by striking background work from their partners at the Japanese animation studio Topcraft, the Rankin-Bass Return of the King, which aired in 1980 and which continued to showcase work by Topcraft, was otherwise at best a muddled mess and at worst just a flat out disaster, with scattered positive elements not offsetting the series of baffling adaptation decisions that look even weirder following the success of Peter Jackson's version of the book. What makes the pacing of the film so incredibly bizarre and frustrating, and how did the decision to tell which parts of the story in greater detail compromise the wider scope as a whole? How does the vocal casting and the respective performances end up underselling the flow of the story as a whole? Are there any good parts to the whole at all, and do they actually provide any upside to the end result? And why, why, WHY in the world are there so many bad songs throughout – even if there's disagreement over whether “Where There's a Whip” slaps or not?SHOW NOTES.Jared's doodle – and it really is all that is deserved.Come join us in Portland for our live episode recording if you can! April 22, 2023 is the date, we'll be at Passages Bookshop, and we'll be there with our fellow podcasts It's Just a Show and Game Show 1939! News of more Rings of Power casting. Good luck, everyone.Ciarán Hinds really is all that. But as mentioned in a post-recording edit, Ned made a mistake and muddled two There Will Be Blood scenes – the confrontation scene he talks about is absolutely stunning for sure, but the one where for the first couple of minutes Hinds just very carefully watches, smokes and takes it all in is the one nearer the beginning where Paul Sunday first sits down with Daniel Plainview. The UK National Archives post on the newly discovered letters by Tolkien.The Rankin-Bass Return of the King! It sure did return.Our earlier episode on the Rankin-Bass Hobbit. A lot of information on Rankin-Bass in general which also applies to this production is linked there, so we won't repeat it all here. (And since we do mention Bakshi's film a couple of times, here's our episode on that.)Oh I think we all know about the Star Wars Holiday Special. But the forthcoming documentary could be interesting.The John Culhane New York Times piece from 1977 where Rankin's quote about their plans for The Return of the King comes from.The 1980 LA Times piece by Charles Solomon mentioned is available to read via Newspapers.com though only via a free trial; its first part can be found here along with the awesome Joan Jett photo.If you really actually want to watch the Rankin-Bass Return of the King, don't say we didn't want you.Rick Goldschimdt's interview with Rankin; the quote about Return of the King is towards the end of the clip.The one-album vinyl redaction of the movie from 1980.Want a view of that Seattle Kraken tentacle? Enjoy.Oriana's fine with the orcs not being depicted in a racist fashion, Jared likes the design of Minas Tirith. We'll take what we can get.The Last Homely House does look like it should be snow covered in the Swiss Alps or something.Ah the minstrel. Yes. Yes indeed.Where there's a whip! (But yeah, some love or at least nuance for the orcs, we love to see it, as we argued in our own episode about them.)Barad-dûr is…odd. Neuschwanstein Castle, if you ever want to check it out.Sauron, though, that's pretty interesting. And definitely not Mike Wazowski.Our Silver Call duology episode. Still a very strange piece of work.Bring on The War of the Rohirrim! *crossed fingers*Support By-The-Bywater on Patreon. Thanks!
On worldbuilding and Tolkien.
Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Jared's choice of topic: worldbuilding. Tolkien is so heavily identified with the concept of worldbuilding that a map of Middle-earth represents the topic on Wikipedia, and his impact in both fantasy and beyond regarding how a world that is not this actual globe we live on is perceived and presented has continuing afterechoes that don't look to disappear anytime soon. At the same time, what exactly worldbuilding IS is a hardly an agreed upon formal standard anywhere, and the amount of work that's been put into developing a story setting in any number of media, not just that of fantasy novels much less novels in general, is vast, varied and takes many particular forms. Meanwhile, Tolkien's own approach as to what worldbuilding is comes out of his own particular personal and philosophical conclusions, and doesn't always take the form of what a more stereotypical approach to the subject might be in the current day. What makes the idea of Middle-earth so compelling to readers entranced by his works, and what drives them to learn more about it or to elaborate on it in their own right? What other creators, in fiction and beyond it, successfully approach similar levels of immersion, and are there particular points of commonality to be found there? Are there particular points in Tolkien's stylistic approach that signal notable strengths in creating the sense of Middle-earth as an actual place, and how much of that might lie in a difference between received perception and the reality of the work? And how much does Jared's own forthcoming fantasy novel drive this discussion? (A lot – and we're going to be talking about that novel a lot over time, don't you worry – but also listen for initial news about our live episode in Portland in April!)SHOW NOTES.Jared's doodle – makes you wonder what else is going on in this world shown here…More about the HarperCollins Union contract. Well done, we say again.The Lord of the Rings musical is coming back! We're still scratching our heads a bit. (Listen in to our 2020 episode about it.)The Watermill. It does seem like a nice theatre…Variety's report on the Embracer/Warner Bros. Discovery deal and the prospect of more movies. A little more about Mike de Luca from 2011. Still confused about the overall rights issues when it comes to Tolkien in the first place? A handy Gizmodo explainer.The announcement of Jared's novel! Due for release next year, and we'll get you a preorder link when there is one.More on that whole Doug Liman/Bourne Identity thing. Ah, Hollywood power politics…Worldbuilding! Yup, Middle-earth, right there.Terry Pratchett, rest in peace. One of the greats.Sub-creation, how Tolkien thought of his own creative impulse ultimately deriving from his own belief in God as the ultimate creator.Our episode on “A Secret Vice,” Tolkien's lecture about creating languages.NaNoWriMo! It's a thing, believe us.Our death episode! (Very early days for the podcast and the format's a bit different but we were still figuring it out!)The Chekhov's gun principle.Oriana's Star Wars comments specifically refer to Solo. Ioreth! There should have been more of her but we're glad we have her.The ‘whispering to date' Twitter meme origin. (Forgot what Chappie is? So did everyone else.)Ted Bundy – and yes we hope he's not part of your narrative either.Our Rings of Power Season 1 episode. That did feel good to do.N. K. Jemisin and the Broken Earth trilogy – check it out. As well as: Frank Herbert and Dune! Ursula K Le Guin and Earthsea! Lloyd Alexander and Prydain! Steven Erikson and Malazan Book of the Fallen! The Dark Crystal, still awesome.“As you know, Bob…”The cats of Queen Berúthiel and Carn Dûm.Our food in Middle-earth episode.Enjoy talk about Roman sewers. And Amsterdam's canals.M. R. James, so awesome.Support By-The-Bywater on Patreon, and thank you if you do!
Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Oriana's choice of topic: Gollum. For all the high adventure, heroics great and small and world-shattering consequences and much more that exists in Tolkien's legendarium, arguably the most fascinating character he created in the end is his most racked, ruined and miserable, first encountered as a mysterious slimy creature living and lurking in a subterranean lake with only one thing of particular value to his name. Tolkien's introduction of both Gollum and a magic ring into this world was, to borrow a phrase from the narrator of The Hobbit, a turning point in his career, the more when as he embarked on the writing that would result in The Lord of the Rings he realized he needed to rethink and redo the original, much more comically grotesque version of Gollum into a being living out any number of emotional and physical extremities at once. Arguably both this transformation and then the incorporation of this version of Gollum into his grand story became something he never quite got over, based on his various reactions over time as seen most clearly in his published letters on the subject. Why might the strongest scene for the entire Lord of the Rings be the simple gesture of Gollum tentatively reaching out to touch a sleeping Frodo on the way to Cirith Ungol? What is it about Tolkien's self retcon of what Gollum is at heart that is fascinating still? Does the unspoken backstory of Sméagol and Déagol's relationship suggest deep waters indeed, and how did Tolkien regard them both? And did Gollum really eat babies in the end or was that just something dreamed up by dirtbag elves?SHOW NOTES.Jared's doodle – just waiting on some fish as the endless, timeless years stretch on…Was there rain? There was rain. The HarperCollins Union strike looks to be over! Here's a press announcement.Like we said, rumors, no more, about Embracer and Warner Bros. Who knows.The BBC Repair Shop story is a treat.Just hanging around Tolkien and Gandalf in Warsaw.Lord of the Bins! Well, good luck.Gollum's touching of Frodo's knee should be portrayed more in fan art, but maybe we're not looking hard enough. But there is this at least.All letters quoted taken from the standard Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien collection. The letter to Eileen Elgar quoted later in the episode can be read in full here.Our episodes on Sam Gamgee and the Red Book of Westmarch.Andy Serkis's retelling on how he first considered the Gollum casting can be found in both the movie documentaries and his own book on the role.Admittedly that Cat in the Hat fish is a punk.Grendel? Fascinating and monstrous character…but not Gollum.John D. Rateliff's The History Of The Hobbit breaks down the history of the book from manuscript through its later editions, including the abandoned early 1960s rewrite.The Third Man is a great, great film. Were the elves spreading stories of atrocity propaganda? Well…Serkis himself sees Gollum through the lens of addiction, but the evidence that Tolkien himself had that in mind is scanty at best.The David Foster Wallace piece in question – one of several on tennis, his favorite sport – is “The String Theory.” (The exact quote: “It's the sort of love whose measure is what it's cost, what one's given up for it.”)Déagol, shadowy and still crucial.Yeah sure, Midsomer Murders, but really it's about Rosemary & Thyme as we say. And we do want that TV series we dream up.Goofus and Gallant forever. If you like.How associated is the phrase ‘unstuck in time' with Kurt Vonnegut? Quite a bit. And go go go Everything Everywhere All At Once! Surely it can win everything.Support By-The-Bywater through our network, Megaphonic, and hang out with us in a friendly Discord.
Tolkien's short children's works, Roverandom and Mr. Bliss.
Jared, Oriana and Ned start the new year with Ned's choice of topic: the short children's works Roverandom and Mr. Bliss. Tolkien has been described as a children's author both with praise and disparagement over time, but a more accurate way to put it is that while he was busy working on his cycle of early Middle-earth stories with its high drama and tragedy in the 1920s and 1930s, he was also a loving father to four young children who often made up many stories and tales for them. The Hobbit itself has strong roots in this activity but whether it's the Father Christmas letters, the original Tom Bombadil stories, the early versions of Farmer Giles of Ham or more besides, it's a large creative part of his work in those decades. After The Hobbit was accepted for publication, Tolkien provided the manuscripts for, among other submissions, the stories Roverandom and Mr. Bliss for consideration, though the success of The Hobbit and the request for a sequel led him down other paths, with the two stories receiving separate posthumous publication instead. Is there ultimately anything more to Mr. Bliss than a series of random happenings that the titular character barely seems to be at the center of a lot of the time? How does Roverandom work in notable contrast to Mr. Bliss, with its deeper emotions as much as it has a sense of playful satire? How well does Tolkien's art for both stories achieve a distinct resonance and beauty? And who wouldn't want to get a newspaper called Ocean Notions, perhaps most applicable these days if you live in a pineapple under the sea?SHOW NOTES.Jared's doodle – a beautiful and striking moment from an equally striking story.Join the Megaphonic Patreon! And yes, The Greatest Story Ever Told…isn't. At least not in that form. As before, support the HarperCollins union.A Silmarillion opera cycle exists! And has for years, who knew – not us! More about it, including a link to a fuller interview, via TheOneRing.net.The Russian Silmarillion musical, whatever it is? There are clips.Yep, pushing ahead with The Rings of Power. We'll see…Roverandom! Mr. Bliss! Very different to be sure.Earlier episodes on Smith of Wootton Major and Tree and Leaf (with “On Fairy-Stories”)The Wind In The Willows remains top flight.“Goblin Feet”…does not.Marcel The Shell With Shoes On was indeed a good movie.We all know The Velveteen Rabbit. Surely.Well we all DEFINITELY know Toy Story. The Man in the Moon is everywhere!News of the World was a thing. (They shut down because they were completely horrible. Of course Rupert Murdoch was involved.)The tales of Baron Munchausen are wonderful things. (Gilliam's movie is remarkable…but read this first.)Tolkien's illustration of Roverandom and the White Dragon, with Scull and Hammond's commentary.Our early episode on magic. Oh man do we love Ursula K. Le Guin's Earthsea. (The Folio Society editions are remarkable.)Uin the whale. (He's in this reproduction of Tolkien's original 1917 Middle-earth map on the left in the layer of water below the main continents.)Tolkien's illustration “The Garden of the Merking's Palace” is a great riot of color in the best way.Support By-The-Bywater on Patreon and you can hang out with us in a Discord AND hear Ned and Jared talk about Charleton Heston!
Jared, Oriana and Ned continue our own epic trilogy with a look at our collective choice of topic: Peter Jackson's version of The Two Towers. Turning 20 years old this month, The Two Towers built on the success of the previous year's The Fellowship of the Ring, becoming another holiday blockbuster and continuing the overall story, as well as introducing the wider world to a variety of striking performances, among them Bernard Hill as Theoden, Miranda Otto as Eowyn and most famously and indelibly, Andy Serkis's compelling performance as Gollum, further interpreted by the Weta digital effects team to bring the character to life as an animation. All three of us have our own distinct memories and experiences of watching it for the first time and we've seen it any number of times since, but returning to it as a standalone film – as with our previous Fellowship episode, we went back to the original theatrical cut – made something clear to us: it's not all that great. Many different moments are absolutely indelible as already noted and there's no way something like The Rings of Power can even come close to it, but compared to the absolute triumph of Jackson's Fellowship, his Two Towers is the odd one out of the series as a whole. What about the structure of the story as adapted, filmed and edited meant that this might have always been the weak center of the sequence? What moments in particular are absolutely perfect – and what decisions are baffling then and now? Exactly how much Helm's Deep did there have to be in the first place – and do all the decisions that go into the making of that sequence as being central rest on the best foundation? And how great does Serkis's performance and the realization of Gollum as a character remain overall? (Answer: utterly.)SHOW NOTES.Jared's doodle. If that seems familiar, look back a year…Follow the HarperCollins Union Twitter feed for strike news.Andy Serkis reading the Silmarillion? We are intrigued, we are. Hail and farewell to Jules Bass.We do recommend relistening to our Fellowship episode; plenty of relevant show notes too.The Frodo Franchise is a very good read for sure.The original teaser trailer attached to the end of The Fellowship of the Ring at the conclusion of that film's theatrical run.The first official trailer is good, no question, but the second one with the Requiem for a Dream music? Man oh man. Kazaa! Ah Internet nostalgia. Phew, that opening scene. What a way to start up again.We do miss the Huorns, even if they showed up a little bit in the extended version – but not by name.It's a mix of perfect moments and ‘hmmm' bits but the whole start to the Helm's Deep battle definitely is key to the film.Arwen was indeed filmed at being at Helm's Deep and there are background images of her here and there. (Lindsay Ellis's essay the other month has a bit more about that.)Zulu, the British film from 1964 that inspired Jackson's take on Helm's Deep, is…a caution. (As stated, Zulu Dawn is more interesting in comparison.)The look on Theoden's face after he takes in the explosion – that's good acting.Edoras, an absolute triumph of set design, construction, visual effects and cinematography – so it was, so it remains. (Here's a visit to the set area on Mt. Sunday from a couple of years ago.)Feel free to pick up a copy of The Deadwood Bible by Matt Zoller Seitz if you like, and appreciate Oriana's work helping make it happen!Brad Dourif's tear (and the scene overall). Wormtongue's confrontation scene with Eowyn is in the Edoras clip linked above.The Eowyn/Aragorn blade clash/confrontation scene? Good, good stuff. (The warg attack scene, less so.)Where to begin with Gollum? Frustratingly the extended Two Towers documentary segment on Gollum doesn't appear to be on YouTube but Serkis's book on working on the character is easily available and a very good read.Do you really want to know about the monkey from the 1997 Lost in Space? Do you? Fine. Enjoy a video tribute. Now Gollum does act like a cat here, true. And the ‘yeees?!?' moment remains awesome.The self-confrontation scene. You know it.“PO-TA-TOES.”The buildup to Gollum snarling “My PRECIOUS!” at Faramir is truly striking.David Wenham dealing with Van Helsing. The film that is. (And yeah yeah 300.)Gandalf returns and Ian McKellen's hair levels up.The whole “give up the weapons/wink/'I TOLD you to take the WIZARD'S STAFF'” sequence – just a treat.The meat was always on the menu, really.“The Riders of Rohan” is one of Howard Shore's most gripping pieces, still.“Gollum's Song” is really good if you haven't heard it in a bit. (Emiliana Torrini's website will be back soon, it seems.)Sheila Chandra = next level. As is “Breath of Life.”Isabel Bayrakdarian = also next level, and so is “Evenstar.”“The Last March of the Ents” is another remarkable moment of music. “Release the RIVER!”Support By-The-Bywater and our network, Megaphonic, on Patreon and you can hang out with us on a friendly Discord!
The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, season 1.
Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about the inevitable: the first season of The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power. Ever since By-the-Bywater began, the show's creation, filming and buildup to its release has loomed large in our news reports and there were inevitable questions about it the more information was surfacing. But there was always hope that it could in fact succeed and add to the notable if admittedly varied canon of Tolkien adaptations already created over time. Suffice to say that there was a lot of heavy promotion, a whole amount of attention and there are definitely plenty of people out there who have enjoyed the series to one degree or another. The three of us…are not among them. Frankly, not in the slightest, outside of a few particular points and factors, and we try and bring them up as we can. But we're not going to pussyfoot around the fact that we found this eight episode introductory season to otherwise be a near-unmitigated disaster and are still picking our way through the wreckage like the orcs after the ‘are you kidding us right now' Mount Doom relighting trick. What choices were made by the showrunners to create incidents and particular character arcs, whether from Tolkien's own creations or invented characters of their own, and why did so many of them fall so flat? What did the continuing use of non-standard English dialects mean for certain characters and how they're meant to be perceived or understood? Who were the good actors who actually did something of note with their often confusing or underwritten or just poorly written character motivations? What if anything was in line with Tolkien's general themes and approaches, and more importantly, what wasn't? And once again, what in the WORLD with that scheme about Mt. Doom, good frickin' grief.SHOW NOTESJared's doodle. See, if they'd cast a Celebrimbor who even LOOKED like this…Yup, second season of The Rings of Power is happening. Yup, sure is. Great. The HarperCollins union announces the strike. Again, please honor it.We tend to favor the reactions that look at things with at least a slightly gimlet eye. James Whitbrook's end-of-season episode recap at io9 had some good tart points, especially on the unnecessary approach making the entire season a prologue or pilot, in essence.Published before the end of the season, Kathryn VanArendonk's Vulture piece “The Fantasy Prequel Problem,” which also and understandably takes in House of the Dragon as well, also had some sharp observations.Undone is a really, really good series that Amazon has, indeed. Check it out.Repeating from the previous episode's show notes: Ned's Twitter threads on the time compression problem in the series with specific regard to Númenor.The actual destruction of the Two Trees in this clip is truly marvelous, an excellent brief summary…and as we say, it immediately falls apart after that.J. J. Abrams's famous/infamous TED Talk about the mystery box/puzzle box approach he favors, which the ROP showrunners clearly have taken to heart. (We are not fans.)A recent argument about how the Star Wars prequels became more embraced. (The point Oriana notes about having a vision is brought up as a factor.) See also Rian Johnson's 2020 tweet.The Bronwyn/Theo/orc duel in episode 2 and the Galadriel/Adar barn debate in episode 6 are very good scenes! But they were all too rare in comparison. Our earlier episode on orcs. If you want to delve more into the haphazard weirdness of 1980s/1990s D&D novels – and there are quite a lot to choose from – Rob Bricken's irregular ‘Dungeons & Dragons & Novels' series on io9 has been a treat; here's the most recent entry.Caroline Framke's Variety piece on the show is much more positive than ours but zeroes in on an inescapable fact: the lack of traction the show has had in terms of wider discussion/interest, especially in comparison to House of the Dragon.Star Wars: Andor! The Wheel of Time! The forthcoming Willow series! There's so much more that's just…better out there. Our episode from last year on Peter Jackson's Fellowship of the Ring.Subscription required but we do indeed recommend Lindsay Ellis's new video on Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings adaptation choices, as well as the Like Stories of Old's YouTube video The Rings of Powers Has a Narrative Momentum Problem.The Spouter-Inn's episode on The Two Towers – the bonus episode with Jared is forthcoming. (Their earlier Fellowship of the Ring episode, as well as the bonus episode with Oriana.)Support By-The-Bywater and our network, Megaphonic. Thanks!
Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Ned's choice of topic: cartography. To say that maps help define Middle-earth is to understate; besides the famous map featured in The Hobbit and also given as a key visual element with the book itself, one of two Tolkien drew for it, his own many other maps of Middle-earth he created over time, finalized for publication by Christopher Tolkien both before and after his father's death, establish a visual sense of what Middle-earth ‘looks' like in a broad sense, to the point of spawning numerous atlases, charts and online explorations of that wider world. But then again, cartography in a modern sense is a very Eurocentric proposition, and even the fantasy fiction cartography that Tolkien's maps both drew on and then subsequently influenced in a massive way is very much a product of that wider influence, sometimes in very subtly skewed ways. How do maps function ‘in' Middle-earth themselves, whether as plot device, something referenced casually or even seemingly not needed at all, depending on the character? What about the historical context of the British Empire and the sense of ‘discovering' the world might have fed into Tolkien's own views about how to create his own maps and charts, as much as his own knowledge of medieval manuscripts and maps in turn? How have the various visual interpretations of Middle-earth in other media used maps in turn in their efforts and to what purpose? And how is the long shadow of Middle-earth's maps and their impact being interrogated by creative artists around the world as newer worlds are envisioned and explored? (And yes…we have some initial thoughts on a certain streaming TV series.)SHOW NOTES.Jared's doodle. We cover the Middle-earth globe for you. (When it became a globe.)Look we know, WE KNOW. For now we just recommend Gita Jackson's piece “Whose Fantasy Is This?” Fuck racists and then some.Ned's Twitter threads on the time compression problem in the series with specific regard to Númenor.Jared's Patreon piece on the show a few episodes in.Cartography! It's got a history.The Tolkien Estate's map section on its website.The Tolkien Society's closer look at the annotations that Tolkien wrote for Pauline Baynes regarding her poster map.Jonathan Crowe's two excellent pieces for Tor: “Celebrating Christopher Tolkien's Cartographic Legacy” and “Where Do Fantasy Maps Come From?”Barbara Strachey's Journeys of Frodo and Karen Wynn Fonstad's The Atlas of Middle-earth both remain enjoyable reads, Fonstad's volume being especially key.Crowe's Tolkien entries on his own blog, The Map Room.Stentor Danielson's articles on cartography at the Journal of Tolkien Studies.Sally Bushell's “Mapping Worlds: Tolkien's Cartographic Imagination” from her book Reading and Mapping Fiction (you'll likely need library or academic access to read it directly).Nicholas Tam's “Here Be Cartographers: Reading the Fantasy Map.”The British Library's “What Is a Fantasy Map?”A 1999 New York Times piece summarizing the increasing study and work being done throughout the decade working against the Eurocentric cartographic approach.A 2019 undergrad paper by Luke Maxwell on imperialism and Eurocentrism in fantasy cartography.The 2021 Dream Foundry panel discussion, “Fantasy Maps and Worldbuilding from a Non-Eurocentric Perspective,” archived on YouTube.Our episode on the Red Book of Westmarch, a putative source of the Lord of the Rings maps.There are indeed many online Middle-earth maps and atlases – including as mentioned the Minecraft Middle-earth. Other examples include LOTRProject's Interactive Map of Middle-earth and Arda Maps.On a psychogeographical tip, Nowhere and Back Again might be of esoteric interest.Support By-The-Bywater and its network, Megaphonic, on Patreon. Thanks!
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