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Kill her, mommy! This week Midnight Murderama discusses Friday the 13th, the film that launched one of the most recognizable supernatural serial killer franchises. Our hosts are so excited to see that iconic hockey mask, the- what's that? Not in this one? Well then they can't wait to see how many people Jason kills... no one? Really? So then... they are at the very least excited to see Kevin Bacon's butt. Check out the full episode details

Connect with Curt online in the following places:www.curtderksen.comInstagram: @curtaderksenHosted by: Andrew Bracewell @EverydayAmazingPodcastProduced and Edited by: Justin Hawkes @Hawkes21Full transcription of this Interview:Andrew Bracewell: This is the podcast that finds the most elusive people everyday. Amazing kind that you know nothing about. I'm hunting these people down and exposing their beauty to the world. I'm Andrew Bracewell, and this is every day. Amazing.Curt Derksen: I don't want to give them what's left of me. I'm gonna give him the best of me.Andrew Bracewell: I am both nervous and excited. Maybe even more nervous than excited because of the individual who's sitting across from me today. Curt Derksen. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me, Phil. It is absolutely my pleasure. I'll Ah, I'll start with that. I'd like to start things with confessions sometimes. And so Ah, the reason that I'm nervous is because you and I actually do this all the time. And the only difference is is today we're doing it with microphones in front of our faces.Curt Derksen: Yep, True that. And a whole bunch of people that might hear it.Andrew Bracewell: And a whole bunch of people that might hear it a little bit. And so, no, no, There won't be any editing. We're only doing we're only doing it in the raw. But what I have Thio say in admit and this is part of the reason why I'm so excited and and yet nervous at the same time is that there's been a number of times in the last couple years that you and I have spent late nights together Ah, out on the patio or the porch or in the backyard and I drive home from that experience where I walk inside my house and I say to myself, that has to be one of the best conversations in the history of mankind. Somebody needs to be recording this. That was amazing. That was life giving, and it was incredible. So, um, well, the feeling is mutual. You're making me blush a little bit. Well, I'm not I'm not trying to make you bless. So So this morning is that was getting ready. Ah, the nervous thoughts that came into my mind Where Andrew, don't screw this up. Just be natural. Let it flow, Do what you do And you guys are gonna have a great time. So I am truly excited to ah to have you sitting across from me and in keeping with our tradition that we've tend to have, whether it be through intent or not, we are sipping bourbon. Well, we Well, we talked to one another, and it should be noted for the audience that it's roughly 10. 30 in the morning. Won't say where we are. You know where that is. But we're not driving. We're actually in my living room, and we're Ah, we're gonna We're gonna do bourbon together because that's what we do. Brings out the best and the conversation seems to feel I have a question for you, actually on that on that topic. Good. Do you think so? Neither of you. Neither you or I has educated enough to probably intelligently answer this question, But let's try to do it together anyway. What do you think alcohol does to you in conversation? What is it doing? Your brain does it open you up? Does it shut you down? Speak to that a little bit because you and I have have had lots of alcohol into his conversations.Curt Derksen: Yeah, that's a good question. So I think about it often, actually, because it depends on a few things for me. Circumstances of my Dave, my own body chemistry, food that's on board. Kind of where I'm at emotionally, but often what it will do is it will help me come grounded in present in the moment. And then I can just be really some of my inhibitions or concerns of just being vulnerable out of subside. And then I could just be fully engaged in the moment. And it opens up some amazing opportunities for, like, we had some really cool conversations that you just feel like you're connected with somebody.Andrew Bracewell: So again, it's funny that we're having this conversation because we're probably not fit to have the conversation properly because we don't actually know what's going on in the body chemistry. Maybe we do a bit, but do you think that it takes us out of a current state of reality and allows us to get into a different space that therefore then opens up conversations that we otherwise wouldn't be ableto have, or how do you think that works? I thinkCurt Derksen: it's for me. Anyways. It's more just about some of the barriers coming down, like my own inhibitions, as far as like, maybe I won't say that right now, because he may be. He'll think something weird of me or whatever, and that is just kind of gone and then You just got to get into a flow. Almost. You just let it be. Some people can probably do it easier without alcohol. And I can definitely do it without I'll call as well. But I just find that regardless of what my circumstances are during that day, it will help the be present.Andrew Bracewell: Yeah, it goes without saying that this certainly isn't an endorsement of that. You course you need alcohol in orderto have real authentic conversation. Well, I mean, usually before nine. I'm onto my second little bit. Delete today. Yeah, I know. It just so happens that, you know, you and I have spent a lot of time together, but we have this great history of incredible conversations late at night. Well, while sipping on bourbon. So in keeping with our tradition, we're doing that this morning and, ah, you know, here's to us doing it one more time to choose. Um, So hey, I want to introduce you a bit to the audience, and I wanna give you the platform, and I want to let you know, tell us who you are, where you came from in a bit of your stories. So, um, I want to give you the platform. I'll I'll say that. You know, you're a guy who's married with three kids and you live in Abbotsford and you sell real estate. But maybe, um, I'll let you go from there. Take it over and away. You go.Curt Derksen: Okay. Not originally from atmosphere to grow up in Kelowna, just outside of Kelowna. And I was the oldest of three kids. Never thought that I would be anything to do with sales. That just wasn't my cup of tea. I volunteered in Cairo, Egypt, for a year, and I went to school in Alberta and went to school and Abbotsford and again, real estate was never on my radar. I had some experiences, met some people, read some books when I was in university at the University Fraser Valley that started just giving me a paradigm shift, challenging the way I thought opening up my mind to different possibilities and reading different perceptions, really, And so that led me to real estate, and I got to the place where I feel like it's actually a really good fit for me, and so it just I've grown a lot as a human and a lot of really great things have come as a result of had good opportunities to connect with and serve people and and create a cool life for my familyAndrew Bracewell: and your your family just to catch everybody up. You're married for how many years?Curt Derksen: So my wife, Michelle, we've been married since 2008. So 11 years at this 110.11 and 1/2 years we have three Children going. His eight. Thailand is six and Norris for. So we are in the full on chaos of all that is young families and loving it. We actually actually feel like we're kind of emerging out of like treading water, but mostly being underwater and coming to a place where I feel like I spend more time with my head above water than below. Which is a refreshing feeling. I think Michelle would say the same thing. I know she would.Andrew Bracewell: Oh, there'll be parents out there listening to this, nodding their head guy. I understand. Well, yeah, but I already meansCurt Derksen: once you're a parent, you you get it. You don't really know what chaos is until I mean, everybody has different levels are different kinds of chaos. But as a parent. The chaos that you deal with condense?Andrew Bracewell: Yep. I want to circle back to your You alluded it eluded to your university experience and how you're said your mind started to shift. You started thinking different ways. What were you What were you studying in university? And then what kind of experiences did you have that started to, you know, shift the way you were investigating the future of your life?Curt Derksen: I'd probably back it up even a little bit further before that, because I went to school and I went to three different schools. Three different postsecondary education institutions, one including a one in Calgary, then one in Abbotsford. And when I went in Kelowna, I was playing on the men's soccer team there, and my experience was mostly just about playing soccer. When I went in Calgary to that school, I was playing basketball, and my experience was mostly based around basketball. So what I was actually getting out of my studies was only what I needed to in order to keep their to this city there. But I didn't enjoy it. The studies that I was taking wasn't really for me. It was more typical like what you would do in high school. You just kind of jump through the hoops after both of those experiences. That's when I went to Egypt, and I just I went on a trip. Michelle, my wife is from there.Andrew Bracewell: Yeah, So this this was a FEMA female inspired this year. Go to ECurt Derksen: Exactly. She she lived there for 12 years, and so it wasAndrew Bracewell: a noble, noble reason. It's totally well, yeah, get in withCurt Derksen: the family, show that I'm actually good shit and then weAndrew Bracewell: can see where it goes from. ThereCurt Derksen: it was You got to go to Egypt and I fell in love with you. We're just on a tourist trip at that point were there for three weeks, and I fell in love with the opportunity and actually the opportunity that I sought to basically connect with and served Sudanese refugee kids. And so when I came back from Egypt, actually dropped out of school is supposed to be going for my second semester, but it was okay because the first semester was when we had soccer and the second semester soccer season wasn't going on so I could drop out. It was totally cool actually went back to the rigs at that point. Julian Reason, Northern Alberta paid off some debt, save some money and then went to Egypt. And so when I came back, Thio Canada So was in Egypt for a year when I came back to Canada. After that, I went raid in tow. Michelle and I got married, and then I wouldn't read into the University of Freezer Valley and started slitting kinesiology. And so kinesiology is the study of the human body in the human body in motion. And I always played sports and was active and trained pretty fit. And so getting into kinesiology at you, if he was a different like not only was I now older and mature and I was better because I was engaged in the studies and I kind of had a bit of an end goal and you where I wanted to be, Uh, But this this is what I was actually studying was actually fascinating to me because it was an application with stuff that I already at some core level, understood and new. And so the studies when I got to that position being a little bit older having some life experience studying something that I actually enjoyed. I started thinking differently. I just started, maybe even actually just thinking rather than going through the motions in life. And so I got to the end of my university studies, and rather than pursue kinesiology, I actually might last. I laughed one of my last second or third. Last semester, I started reading some books about investing in real estate. One of the fundamental books for me was the Robert Kiyosaki Bic Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and it's a really basic Michelle and I actually bought that book. We're driving to Remington for, uh, we're going to a family wedding or something out in Edmonton. We bought the book before we left. We read it to each other. At that point, I'm a student at you. If you were renting a condo and Michelle's and nurse just in her first year of practicing as a nurse working at the office for a hospital, we buy this book. We're driving a 2006 black Honda Civic, which was our first car that we got together. We're driving Delbert a reading this book, taking turns back and forth. Read it to each other. By the time we got home back to Abbotsford, we decided that we were going to buy a house. And it was never really on our radar, something that we talked about before. But there was some very simple principles that were like, We're gonna apply this. Our agent at the time was James Armstrong and poor guy. We just We're new to this whole world and didn't have any, like guidance. Really? So we're just like I thought it was the best thing to go and see every possible listing that there was. So we probably actually have a folder with all of the pieces of paper that Jim printed for us. We saw, like, 40 homes.Andrew Bracewell: You were the client from hell,Curt Derksen: right? Exactly. We totally he was just a happy go lucky love to just super social love to be with us and tell stories. And so we just saw everything that we could see anyways, So we go from living in a condo that we're renting to buying a house and within like, six months, you buy this house, I'm in university, still full time. Michele's working at this point. I'm working at Great West Fitness, that gym in town. I'm a personal trainer and or I'm studying to be a personal trainer on top of the other things that come along with kinesiology. And so I'm working at the gym studying, and we bought this house and I started renovating the basement. So we bought it without a sweet, renovated the basement, put a sweet and illegal suite, and then we lived in the basement and rented out the upstairs for the 1st 2 years. And so this was kind of like our problem at this point. I wasn't planning on being a realtor. I just had the idea from Robert if we use what we have, and we can actually make it work for us rather than paying somebody else's rent, and that's kind of where it all started.Andrew Bracewell: You were putting into action what you had read, and you were You were living it outCurt Derksen: exactly, and by time we actually got the living in that basement suite. We were little. We were living for less money. We're paying less money to live in our own house. Then we would have been paying rent it this other, and it was our own house. It was our own basement, soAndrew Bracewell: I want to circle back to something. Um I don't wanna miss over something. Miss out on something that could be good here, and I don't even know. I can't remember the exact dates. I know. You know, I have discussed this before, but when you were in Egypt, you were involved in a fairly significant accident. Was that Is that pre marriage or when? What does thatCurt Derksen: was? Yes. So that was March of 2000 and six, sort to March of 2008. And so Egypt was quite significant for me. Like not only was I in a situation that I would have never imagined before on several occasions I went to Egypt playing spy before Egypt had always played sports. Never got hurt, never broke a bone, never been in an accident. Never had anything bad happen versa. Master, I'm playing basketball against one of the students that I was working with. One of the refugees on the run. He was a moth, was like six foot nine, like he was a full grown human, like there's a whole side story here, if they often will when they when they come into, like so with a lot of the Sudanese living in in Cairo have refugee status, but they're not like in a refugee camp. They're just like in the shit mix with the Egyptians. And so there's a lot of differences between the Sudanese and an Egyptian like very, very different from the Sudanese air, not overly accepted in a lot of a large part, like they come and they don't have income potential. They can't work the speak different languages. They're not overly accepted. So there's like this massive problem of the Egyptians not loving the Sudanese and not I'm generalizing a little bit. But as a general rule, like the general person on the street is not overly excited that the Sudanese were there because they're just an extra burden, like we would be here like it was an extra burden on our society. Totally. It's not to the fault of the Sudanese. It's just the reality anyways, so I'm playing basketball games, this massive guy who says he's 17 but he's probably 35 he's probably older than I was just a monster. I drive the whole and I do a lay up and I came to the end of the Congo like end of the corpse in a concrete corner at the end. There's a little drop off when I rolled my ankle and broke my foot and I've never broken anything before. And so I walked. We walked everywhere. I was like a volunteer at the time, so I have $0 to my name. You could take a taxi everywhere you go, and it doesn't cost very much, but I don't even have enough money to do that. I'm just a volunteer. So I walked everywhere, so I walked for like, three days around Madi. That's the part of Cairo where we were on a broken foot before I went to the doctor and got X rays and sure enough got casted. So the first semester I was in a cast for like and Weeks came home at Christmas, proposed, went back toAndrew Bracewell: Egypt and then just fit in all the things that really all the things thatCurt Derksen: proposed Christmas. We're getting married that summer, July and go back. And then that spring break, Michelle came over to visit, to hang out with me there for a couple weeks and I got into a car accident. I was on a bicycle. First semester. I walked. Then when I had a broken foot, it was hard to walk. So I got a bike and was riding around. Well, trafficking Cairo is make noon. That's like Arabic for crazy, like it is mental. It's probably one of the least safe places in the world to drive. At one point, I remember hearing that there was something like 90 related traffic deaths per day in the city of Cairo. It like it's just absolutely traffic laws don't apply. They aren't there aren't any. And so I had this brilliant idea that I was gonna write a bike. I wasn't wearing a helmet, and I went to a soccer practice that I was coaching with a bunch of the Sudanese kids, and I'm riding back, and it's kind of like dusk getting to the end of the day, and it's the end of the week. So Friday's air the beginning of their weekend. So it's like a Thursday night at dusk. Everybody's getting out of town toe, go home or whatever. I'm trying to ride across traffic and I get to this mad Dan like a roundabout, and this should be like probably three lanes of traffic all the way around the Madan. But this was there's probably five, and so it's super busy. There's one traffic cop kind of directing, making sure that there is a flow. But it's just chaos. And so in the chaos, if you want to like yet anywhere you have to be aggressive. So whether you're walking or riding a bike or driving, if you don't go, then you'll stand forever and you're not.Andrew Bracewell: You're not going to Israel. You goCurt Derksen: where you don't where you stay. And so I decided to make a quick second approached the the Madden, and I made a quick decision that I was gonna give her. I was going to get across this Smith Dan and I got past the 3rd 1st 3 vehicles, and what I didn't see was that there was another vehicle on the inside that was cutting really tight, coming quick. And so I got past the 1st 3 you got to the fourth. I didn't see him and oh shit and right there he his I remember, and I actually nightmares about it for a while, but I remember the hood of his car hitting me on my left leg. And I always thought, being athletic, that if I got into that situation you like, I would Spider Man this shit out of thisAndrew Bracewell: situation. I would totally like, come out like his movies. Air rial. I know, right? I was complete.Curt Derksen: I would be like a cat. I would land on my feet. No issues. That's not what happened. I, um, cranked on front and rear brakes went up on the front. Well, the front wheel actually, like mangled completely, just from the my weight and the impact of the car and the bike went underneath the car, and I went over the handlebars and landed on the pavement. Luckily, just passed his car on and close enough to them center of the Madonna, where there is no other vehicles coming, have landed on my face first on my chin, then on my nose broke off. Three of my teeth, destroyed my nose, big cuts over my chin, and it was a bloody mess. I blacked out for a second, came through, came to brought up, grab my bike from underneath the car, and when sat down on the curb and my whole face was just on fire and blood was just gushing. And I looked up and I never seen a traffic cop being in front of the car. Traffic stopped and a couple people came over to see if I was OK. And by the time I looked up again, traffic was flowing in. That car was gone. He probably paid off the guard and was done. It was the end of it.Andrew Bracewell: Wow. So I had I had an equally traumatic accident in my life. I've heard yourCurt Derksen: story. It might be more traumatic.Andrew Bracewell: Yeah, well, I'm just different. Just different. And something I experienced Waas, uh, I had, like, significant nightmares for I want to say, intense at first for the first year yet where, On a weekly basis, multiple times was waking up in sweats, reliving what happened? Yep. And then, um, you know, doing my level best to control it with drugs in a healthy and unhealthy way. And then, uh, you know, it dissipated over time, but it probably years to completely, you know, leave my memory as I was trying to sleep. Yeah, is that Did you have anything like that. Yeah, probably.Curt Derksen: Why I never had. I was never medicated. Um, even being in Cairo, having those procedures done, there really wasn't a lot of medication that was given their very afraid, being an Islamic country, they're very afraid of, uh, drug dependency. So it was more tough it out and and deal with it. And so being that all of my primary care was there, I was in the hospital there for a few days at couple surgeries there. All my teeth I worked in my teeth was done there. There was no medication. But I do remember for a significant period of time having waking up in having sweats, being afraid, I was afraid. The first time I got back onto a bike. There's a lot that kind of came with it, but one of the best parts that came from that whole experience. And there's this one moment, this one, maybe evening. More than a moment is captured in my brain better than most of my time in Cairo. So my wife's mom, my mother in law Brenda, was living in Cairo at the time. And so after this accident happened, I actually moved into her place and she kind of was taken care of me. And one night, a boat, maybe a week where the even, maybe even less than a week after the event, the Sudanese kids that I was working with actually came to the apartment where I was staying toe to see me and take care of me. And just just to basically love on me like that was one of like, the most humbling and amazing experiences that I've had, because you're my this like, blond haired, blue eyed Canadian guy who's going over there to, like, serve the needy. That was kind of like my programming, and they came to, like, take care of me. They came to love on me. And so there was, like, 30 of them that piled into this little apartment like these monstrous kids that are like six toe six foot five and well ranging in age from probably 25 all the way down to 12 and they just it piled in the elevator. They came up the series. We're on the 10th floor and they just, like, came and just sat with me for like hours. And it was the connection that I had with them afterwards was amazing. And it was like, the for the first time, we connected on a different level. So really cool.Andrew Bracewell: So let's jump back to university now. Kinesiology? Yep. You've had an experience of smashing your body to pieces of an accident. You're learning about the body. You've You've told me many times you're fascinated with with the body and how it functions. What fascinates you? Why can you see ology fascinated? Well, how howCurt Derksen: much weaken accomplish or what we can actually physically do, and how training and preparation can actually expand your capacity. And so these traumatic experiences that I had breaking my foot or smashing my face or know any of the events playing sports, those kinds of things you become aware of, kind of like where your ceiling is and then learn that you can actually push past that house. Some of those traumatic experiences can actually make you better. And then the other part is like the accident was traumatic. But there is a hole like emotional psychological component to it that made me better. I'm better because of the pain that I went through. And so that's that's really intriguing. That fascinates me. That weaken actually learn from these experiences and you can apply that. I think you can apply the same principles of that kind of like growth. And if you apply the same principles to anything that you do, you actually have an opportunity to become better at. You know, any avenue business, for instance, like I've been in this business now have been in real estate since 2012 and I haven't done anything different than I've done in every other part of my life. Like I learnt your intentional you grow. You surround yourself by the right people that are doing what you want to do. You borrow from them until you can kind of make your own way and then implement and change and start to recognize kind of your own authentic voice and pay attention to that beast. That's been my journey. I feel like I've borrowed from others until I get to a place where I could be comfortable in my own skin and then kind of go on my own from there.Andrew Bracewell: So were you born with the Greek god body that you have or did you have to buildCurt Derksen: it, built it. No, I don't. I don't think that's entirely true. I think thatAndrew Bracewell: what? That you're a Greek god or that you have.Curt Derksen: Of course, Greek. God is true. ButAndrew Bracewell: you realize that I that I'm asking this question not for myself, but for the masses that are listening that want to know. Is that a gift from God? It occurred. Build that. And how do I get it?Curt Derksen: Yeah, I I I definitely worked hard at my body and I have my whole life and I've always been active, and I've been careful what I eat and what my nutrition looks like. And not to say that I don't have ice cream or, you know, my treats of choice. Those things happen. It's just a moderation. And then the majority of time, I'm intentional about it. But there is definitely a genetic component like my dad. I trained with my dad when I was 12 years old in our basement, like my dad was, he modeled something for me as faras being active and taking care of his body. And so that is something that is, you know, from a very young age I was playing sports. I was training and maybe my diet wasn't the best When I was a kid is here. I was a kid, but I still you know, at some level there is a genetic component where my dad's activity and it was imprinted upon me What he also modeled soAndrew Bracewell: well, that is. I mean, that's one of the things that I mean. I admire a number of things about you, but one of the things that I admire about you and have been challenged on it's your habits that you have in your life in the decisions that you have in place Speaking about, you know, specifically the body What you put in what you consume, how you train. I've trained with you before and training with you is not to be taken lightly. It's ah, it's impressive. And I would you know, I don't know. I never knew you when you were 56789 years old But But I've known you recently and I know that you know you you work your ass off for what you have, you can and the world the world thanks you for it because, you know, we get toe take you in it. It's a beautiful thing to take in.Curt Derksen: I was gonna say you could look at my son because my son, I think, is a pretty much like an identical. He looks a lot like me, but just the way he trains for baskets into basketball right now on the way he trains for basketball is focusing. Commitment to it is would have been the same for me. And I remember my mom telling stories about me sleeping with my soccer ball like I didn't have a stuffy like I slept with my soccer, but like that was what I did. That was my thing. I think that kind of mentality is that's just who I am. And that's who my son is. So,Andrew Bracewell: so a question that people would probably have is Where do you fit on the on the spectrum of the and it's a large spectrum. The physical fitness, the the diet, the food intake. Do you align with a particular philosophy, or has that shifted for you significantly over time, or what does that look like? I think it'sCurt Derksen: constantly evolving as I try things out, and as technology or science advances and we understand more. But as I trial things for myself, I'd like to just try different things for a while. I get bored, so I switch back and forth from different things. I'm just starting some yoga. I've seen that before, off last year, and I'm enjoying that. There's a whole element of, like mindfulness being aware of my body and exposing the supposing Some of my own kind of internal weakness is that I'm gonna find with yoga. I love hiking, so there's a whole outdoors element connecting with nature. That kind of comes for me from that CrossFit something that I is a kind of style, that I would train for high intensity interval training like condensing a lot of work into a short period of time. Really, it's just it's a lifestyle thing for me, like trying to be active every day, and and the reason that I do it is that I know what I feel like when I when I'm not, and I know how I perform with my family. I perform for work, how I feel about myself. All of those things come when I'm disciplined. When I'm on track and I'm eating well and I'm resting well and I'm training for equally. I can do better at life, and I wanted you will, though,Andrew Bracewell: so your physical routine has evolved quite drastically over time. What have you done with the food element and the calories you're consuming? Has that also drastically changed? Or what does that look like for you? I thinkCurt Derksen: it's It's definitely changed. I don't how drastic. Like my fares. Parents didn't feed me shit growing up like we had pretty ballistic recently, well balanced meals as a young 20 something youAndrew Bracewell: weren't raised on Froot Loops. AndCurt Derksen: oh, there was a capital wasn't every day. But we also don't have the money to have fruits. That's an expensive cereal. So we like. That wasn't something that was That was an extra. I would go to my friend's houses that had more money so that we could have those things. We were maybe Rice Krispies or something. So it's still cereal. But IAndrew Bracewell: had two of those friends. They were strategic partnerships. Yes, right. It was very important for the enjoyment of elementary school. Totally, totallyCurt Derksen: planning times to go and visit have sleepovers. I don't have a few too and I frequently went to their place will significantly more times than they came to mind. And that was orchestrated by this guy.Andrew Bracewell: That's intelligence. That's right. What that isCurt Derksen: right is adapting exactly next stage of evolution. So being married to Michelle, though Michelle has been instrumental for sure in having healthier, more balanced food, I don't ever have to think about going to the grocery store like sometimes all a go and help her out. But for the most part, like she plans meals there's always have are for fridges were very lucky. Your fridge is always full, There's always good choices, healthy options. And so a big part of it is just not having the shit options available. Lot of the stuff that when it isAndrew Bracewell: in theCurt Derksen: house, I still consume it. But having as little of that around, it's possible. But IAndrew Bracewell: find thisCurt Derksen: so this is probably comin from a lot of people, but for me, especially like there's a very big correlation when I'm active and I'm disciplined, you know, conscious about like doing the activities, having exercise, hiking, walking, exercising all those things, my diet, like I just tend to want to be more intentional about my diet. I don't take in as much crap because it just I want to make sure that I'm fueled properly. But I alsoAndrew Bracewell: feelCurt Derksen: good. And so when I feel good, then I want to keep that rulingAndrew Bracewell: totally. It's not chicken and egg thing, that that vicious cycle that has no answer to it. But when you when you're physically taking care of yourself, you're more inclined to put the right things in. And then when you get into a space where you're not, which it's important to have those those spaces to to to take a break, it's much easier to fall into a trap of all. Eat that bag of potato chips or I'll do that. I'll do that, which I think is also healthy to take time for for sure. But I I can identify that with that completelyCurt Derksen: for me, that the control part comes back when, like I can control it better if I was gonna say him off the wagon, okay? And I'm not exercising and I'm eating shit, and that maybe happens for Noah periodically throughout a year, a couple times where I have a week or two or three year a month When I'm just not engaged and not taking care of myself, I get back on back on track by exercise. And when I exercise intentionally, then I can. The food component just comes naturally for me, like it just it falls into line when I'm when I am working when I am training,Andrew Bracewell: that's an interesting thought. I would wonder if if a pole could be taken. I would bet that some people would be the exercise first to get back and some people would be the food first step. Get back, I think Absolutely. And I actually wonder now that we're talking, I think I'm a food first person because when I eat shit and feel like shit, there's, like, no fucking way. Yeah, I'm going out and, you know, lifting weights or whatever. So for me, I think it's the opposite. I think you know, if I get the right food and then all of a sudden I feel better. Confidence changes. Not so foggy in the brain. Okay? I wanna go left, right. We'll run.Curt Derksen: Yeah, I think anybody that has any kind of tendency towards a distortion on their food it's it's a it's a difficult thing. And if you are in a boat, a rut burn, extended period of time and you're you of food is distorted, then it's that much harder, actually, Turn it around. And those people would probably be the similar to you. ThatAndrew Bracewell: and that's me. I had my food journey in my life. You know what I was, um you know what? I was handed in terms of food, intelligence and habits as a child and then and then not to put the blame on, you know, how I was raised on my parents. But then even what I did for myself in my early adult formative years, I mean, I developed incredibly terrible habits and bad belief systems around food, and some of it was just ignorance, you know, lack of education. And so then when I made a change and I didn't want to be a diabetic in my twenties, it was the food thing where the battle was won and lost. I always I was an athlete as a child, you know, I played basketball, I played hockey, all of those things. But then when you feel like shit and you don't have energy. You actually can't even be athletic anymore. So for me, the battle is always won and lost in the kitchen and then even to this day, to get back on track. For me, it's a food thing before it's Ah, it's a physical thing,Curt Derksen: but that that probably makes sense compared to like your your family. It was modeled for you and for me, how it was modeled with my dad. My dad was training when my dad is 5 to 10 and when I was young, he was like to 40 like just a beast, just a beast. And he would consume like he'd sit down and have a dozen eggs like he just was constantly like in taking proteins and just intentional about lifting, benching over £300 squatting like ridiculous numbers and leg pressing £1000 that was that was that was what he did.Andrew Bracewell: Wow. And you had that model for youCurt Derksen: exactly. And I took part in it like, Yeah, I remember being 12 like we just sold our family home this last year, and I remember I have one of the some of the weight sets that we used when I was a kid and I would my dad and I would train that in the basement 23 times a week like that's what we did together. So that's obviously because that's ingrained in me. That's my default. And Michelle, my wife, who lives in the same house, is me. Would be food similar. More similar to you. Be food First exercise kind of falls in line when her food and nutrition is where it needs to beAndrew Bracewell: right. Let's switch gears for a bit. Ah, you've alluded to Michelle and your kids and your family a number of times and families. Big topic. But let's first dive into your immediate family, your wife and kids. How has being a father, a husband and a father? And as that's evolved, how is that changed particular philosophies in your life about how you approach work or how you approach this last topic we've been talking about, You know, the major topics in life. If you look at your life in last, say 8 10 years, what major evolutions have you come through in terms of the way you think, and how will you approach thingsCurt Derksen: before I got married. I would have told you that I am not selfish like I'm not a selfish human Like I'm other focused like I Mother Rish. Right? And then I got married and living cohabiting with someone When human makes you realize that actually, I was pretty selfish. And then if after a little while, I figured out like, you know, I I can do this, I could be married. I'm not that selfish anymore. I've learned I've grown and then we had kids and it was like, That's a huge time. Suck like you love those little buggers, but like it's a huge time. Suck on. I realized once again how selfish I actually am. And so now, three kids later in a wife, later that that I feel guilty for a while about this selfishness that I had. And I saw the pendulum kind of swing far from feeling like I wasn't selfish to then feeling like I was really selfish and that beating myself up and that's a common theme for me in my own head is beating myself really hard on myself. But feeling guilty about it being guilty and shame even around this idea that I was selfish. And then now the pendulum kind of swinging back, probably more towards center. And I'm realizing that, like, I can't Well, you everybody's heard this idea of you get on a plane And this flight attendant says if we you know, we lose pressure in the cabin, the masks fall down. You got to take care of yourself. Put yours on first. If you can't take care of yourself, you can't help someone else. And so the guilt and shame slid me into this pattern with young Children and a wife that was dealing with postpartum depression. And you know, her own journey, her own process for body being literally ripped apart him and trying to put it back together and not being able to do what she did before All all the psychological and emotional trauma that happens happens as a result of trying to raise these little humans being completely sleep deprived. We've kind of both now come to this place where it's like, Well, if I don't take care of me, then I can't be the best version of me for my family. And if I can't be the best version of me for my family than what am I setting them upAndrew Bracewell: for now we're into the meat of what I want to talk about. It takes aCurt Derksen: little while to get here, but we're here now.Andrew Bracewell: We've arrived. We worked into a lather. How does it go on? He needs more bourbon and he'll be good. So one of the things if not the thing that I both admire about you the most, but also worry about you the most is you are the most self sacrificing human in my life that I'm aware of which I love and admire about you. But then when I observe you in life circumstances, where others around you, whether it be family or not, family experienced tragedy. You are throwing yourself in front of the bus, metaphorically speaking, or people. And you and I have talked about this before. And one of the things that it doesn't me is when I've watched you, either in that, in your space is a father or a husband is Eiko. Holy shit. I'm not doing enough like I'm watching what Curt's doing, and that's unbelievable. And I just need to be I got to be more like hurt. Yeah, But there's two edges to that blade, and the other edge is that you're throwing yourself in front of that bus and you're getting run over and run over and run over. I want to hear you talk about that a little.Curt Derksen: You can only run over so many times, right? Like you kind of ball down and get back up and learn a little bit from it. And so I went back to my accident like I learned something from that event, like I got knocked over and life is like that. It continues to knock us over. And so the the Pro is that I care about people, and I do what I can in the people that I love. Know that I love them and I would do anything for them. But then there becomes a point where you also take on burdens beyond you take on. You start picking up people's burdens when they don't even want you to pick up their burdens, and it's actually not serving them the way I intend to serve them, like I'm trying to just help. But it's actually not being received like that. It actually comes across as almost being like this air against like you can't do it. Let me do it for you, Massa. Not my intention, but I kind of ran into this wall, and I think the business that I'm in is really great for that. It's helped me ro and become aware because my default and my mom is like This is well, my default is just to do everything for everybody. But then you burn yourself out. And so the business being coming into people's lives and seeing their circumstances and seeing that there is need and there's opportunity to help but learning of the line of what's actually appropriate and what's their responsibility and what you're actually have to constantly remind myself that doing something for someone else is actually robbing them. Often it can rob them of the experience or some of the experiences that I've had. And so in my brain, that's what I've had to do is actually like Helen myself. But I'm actually taking away from them, even though I'm trying to help them. I'm actually taking away from them and it's like a selfish thing, really, cause I'm learning toe, not pick up other people's rocks and put him in my backpack. Yeah, I'm learning that like it's their job to carry their rocks. And sometimes people's rocks there they're back back is so heavy that they need an extra hand but learning that line of like, what's appropriate and what's not for the sake of their growth, in their own development, in their own life, like their life, but also for mine, because it takes away from my ability to, like, get the most out of this life and beauty there for my kids and wife. Okay,Andrew Bracewell: there's a lot here that I don't want to miss out on this. There's there's two routes I want to go down and you you touched on one of them that I want to circle back to. And that's the how does this play out in your in your business? You're in the personal service industry and you're dealing with human needs Sometimes that are incredibly selfish. So I will go there in a sec, but I want to go to family tragedy. You've experienced a few things. We don't have to get into all of them, but I've observed you in your immediate family with with one of your brothers and your dad talk about either one of those circumstances, whichever one you want. Yeah, And in the context of this conversation and and what you've had to wrestle with it. So maybe give us some background.Curt Derksen: I feel like families like a different level for me. Like I I'm so in my business. I started off carrying everybody like they were my family, and I love everybody that I work with, and then I get to help. But I also need to draw a line somewhere of who I actually can carry stuff for and who I can't. That line is easily muddied, but my family side were going through. My dad has been 61. He's been diagnosed with dementia, and it's been going on for probably a handful of years undiagnosed. But we've been watching subtle changes, and it's really freaking hard. Man like this is heavy. Like, this is really heavy. This is not something that you, uh this is what I trained for. Actually, this is why I train. I train in life to be able to be in these kind of situations and be someone that helps and not be someone that's a burden by taking care of my own shit. I can help you situations. And so my parents are going through bar none. The hardest period of their lives. My dad's unfortunately, less his capacity and awareness is decreasing by the day, and there's nothing that we can do about it. There's nothing that anybody could. There's no a pill to take. There's not a lifestyle change. It's like the damage is done. And we're just like on this train to this point. And so there is a lot that my mom carries. There's a lot that my dad has lost, and there's a lot that I try and carry because my mom is. Her bag is so full that she's like she's treading water and having a hard time keeping your head above. And so I I have been for the last couple of years, probably longer than that, But intentionally right now and going forward, I'm going to be there with her in the water, helping her carry her back. And I could do that only because I take care of myself because I make sure that I sleep and I rest and I have time for me to do what I like. And I have time with my family where I can be engaged, and that gives me joy in life and exercise like those air. If I don't have those things sorted out, then if my mask isn't on, then I can't help my mom. Yeah, and so I I work on making sure that I have things put together in my life. And then obviously there's That's just one area of my life that's not that's just one thing, like there's still work and all the burdens that come with all these different people in their different situations and circumstances. But it for me fundamental piece comes back to taking care of myself. And so my journey this coming up this year into, uh, understanding myself better so I could be more authentic person of have a better understanding of myself, be more authentic in who I am, and then not have some of the extra stress is that come from trying to please other people or impress other people, take care of myself, be authentic? Then I can serve and be there for the people that mean the most to me.Andrew Bracewell: So as you're in this maze of dementia with no clear path it with your dad. What is the And you're in it. You're not through it. I mean, you're you're living it right now. What is the messaging that needs to be out there that you've had to dig and find on your own? But what people need to hear if they're in the space that you're in right now?Curt Derksen: Well, I think this is like all the things that I'm trying to practice right now is what I'm learning. Self care is of the utmost importance, like understanding your the way you tick, accepting who you are, not trying to please other people or perform to satisfy other people's expectations, saying No when you need to say no to something when you know that it's too much making sure that you get proper sleepAndrew Bracewell: because let me interrupt for a second because the need within the context of dementia, like with the person that's being affected by it, the need is so blind to other people's needs, right percent like it has the ability just to be the most selfish state it becomes, and it's not. The person's wrongdoing is a black hole. It's completely out of control so that if you're around that, everybody also have the barriers up. You can get sucked in, and before long, you know, there's nothing of yourself that that's accurate. 100% Yeah,Curt Derksen: but that's true of everything in life, right? That that is true, like especially for someone with personally like mine where you tend to. I want to be liked and I wantto do a good job for people. And I want I want to feel I feel fulfillment, and I feel significant when I feel like I've done a good job in somebody's a little bit better today or their financial situation's a little bit better because of on investment that I helped them with or you know they got really will take care of as we sold their home or whatever, no matter where you go. If you're not able to be fundamentally strong and who you are an authentic in yourself, take care of yourself, then you can easily get swayed. You lose your ability to be objective and then you get pulled into other people's shit. I want to be there to serve and honor my parents through this journey that they're on, not at the cost of my own sanity, nor the cost of my family. And but I'm also not willing to just I guess one way I could do it is be like, Well, no, hands off, like you deal with it and I'm busy with my own shit. I don't I don't want to be that person either. I want to be able to be engaged, developed that relationship, support them, love them, honor them as they go through this trialling Tyr trying time.Andrew Bracewell: I'll switch gears a little bit. Something that's been said about you is that Curt is one of the most playful fathers ever. And what I observe in you with your kid's eyes absolutely true. You know, I I agree with that statement. Where does that come from? Your desire to be engaged with your Children when given an opportunity?Curt Derksen: I think it comes from a couple of places. One. I just actually really love them, And I would just love playing with um, like I love it gives me joy to see them laugh. Like Nora is four and five times a day. Right now, she says, Daddy wrestle. Let's wrestle like a soon as I get in the door of the end of day. She's, like, wrestle first thing she said to me this morning when she came down the stairs. Danny, let's go wrestle like it gives her joy, and that makes me happy. That fills my tink. The other parties have a hard time even saying no to her like she'sAndrew Bracewell: okay, so I want it. I'm gonna I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate in this conversation.Curt Derksen: Give her because I see you sitting,Andrew Bracewell: I I'm a dad. I got three kids and not Devil's Advocate. That's the wrong way to structure the statement. But what I observe in you with your Children I have to work so hard, Tim Manufacturer in my own relationship. And let's just set the record clear on something. I love the shit out of my kids. I think the world rises and falls on the shoulders of my son when he's playing soccer or my eldest daughter when she's leading a musical or my youngest daughter, when she's just kicking ass in gymnastics like I think there unbelievable. But when I walk through the doors of the house and I compare that to when you walked through the doors of the house. I go, man shit. Like I don't have that natural instinct to wrestle. My natural instinct is I'm exhausted. I'm tired. I'm worn out. Shit, kid, give me space like a fuck. I can't. You know, I just can't. I'm not done yet. And so I wonder like, so is that thing that you have that I, by the way, fucking admire the shit out of you. Is that again? Are we talking nature nurture? Is this a d n? A thing? Is this AA thing that you've worked towards? What's your what's your take on that?Curt Derksen: I think it's the nature nurture question is complicated. And I think it's both, like, I think that at some level, that's just who I am. Like I remember being 12 and playing. We went to church as a kid and I remember, like playing with other younger kids and just making them laugh, chasing them, playing tag with them, picking up and running with them like I remember them like just howling with laughter and feeling like excited and joy filled. And part of it was that I remember how much it meant to the parents at that time that I was engaged with their kids and how much fun they're kids had and how much they're. Those kids looked up to me and how much fun we had together. Like I that that part just is that's just a part of who I am. I remember that. Yeah, I get home at the end of day and I'm tired, too. And as cute as my kids are sometimes chasing, I get home in. Nora Bellis is Dad chased me. Colin in Thailand will come and jump on me for hugsAndrew Bracewell: her pursue me, man pursued.Curt Derksen: So Nora will, like, come close and give me, like, a little bit of a little stare, little smirk, hide behind the pillar and then run away. And so sometimes chasing her isn't what I feel like doing. But when she gets laughing like I get home and I'm exhausted and I don't feel like chasing her, but she starts laughing at, I just kind of fall into it. I just give in. And I think at some level I just like, turn my brain off of what I actually want to do in that moment and just be who she wants me to be. Because I know that I've been away from her all day and I might only have a now hour or two hours or three hours with her before she goes to bed. And so I just kind of like gear down, find another gear and give them what I have left and try and make it the best of what I've given all day, even if it's for five minutes or 10 minutes. Because usually I can play with them for 20 minutes. Tops five minutes, 10 minutes and they're like they're good, They're tanks are full, they're ready to move on to the next thing, but at some level it's like it's inside of me. But another part of it is it's a choice. You're making an injection of choices so that I want to give. I don't want to give them the left of me. I'm gonna give them the best of me,Andrew Bracewell: and your window is only so big with themCurt Derksen: and they're so young. You're stages a little bit different to like where your kids were at. Like they make teenagers are different.Andrew Bracewell: Yeah, yeah, Oh, they're different. Teams are different. Let's just let that resonate through the podcast. Teenagers are different. Um, what's your go to space right now for, um, refueling and given yourself what you need in order to keep going. What's that? What's the thing? Or the space or the habit or whatever that you go to toe to fill yourself up?Curt Derksen: One of them is we have two dogs right now. Just a whole other conversation. But we have two dogs and IAndrew Bracewell: want to talk. About what? Just two dogs.Curt Derksen: Do you want me to getAndrew Bracewell: divorced? Maybe we should bring with shell into conversation. Ah, we, uh,Curt Derksen: wanted so one of the places is just getting out on the trails with the dog because we live up in Sandy Hill. He stabs her, and we have great trails that I can get on and just within a five minute walk. And so just getting away from everything and either listening to a podcast or listeningto quiet music or listening thio. My heart listeningto just whatever just being out there. So that's that's constantly something that fuels me. Podcasts are a huge part of my life driving. I spend a lot of time with her on the phone or driving, and so that helps me stay on track and keep focused with the direction that I want my life to go on, what I want to get out of this experience.Andrew Bracewell: And what's that? What's, Ah, current conversation that you're having in your head right now from something that you're listening to or you learn? What do you What is Curt telling himself right now? In this moment,Curt Derksen: I've been listening to a guy named Alan Watts, and there's some fascinating stuff that he has to say. But one of the most recent things that I've listened to probably 1/2 dozen times in the last month is talking about. Okay, so let me back up a business planning gold setting for 2020 and I look back on some of the intentions and plan that I put in place some of goals that I had in preparing for 2020. I look back on what I did, what I had set aside for 2019 and one of the things that I said to myself going into 22,019 was that when I wrote it down was that the struggle and the obstacles were going to make me better, that I was gonna become better as a result of those things. And I've So that was what I said the beginning. I started doing this business planning like End of October, which is the earliest I've ever started before. Then, in early November, I started listening to the song called Hell of a Year by Country Artist. I just heard him like, you know, he's an up and coming guy and singing this song, which it's a good listen don't necessarily his circumstances of what he's saying that song about don't necessarily apply to me. But application is in recognizing that it's been a hell of a year. Sure, my dialogue for a lot of this year was just that. It's been a hell for not a lot of this year. For a lot of November, as I'm business planning stuff was like, it's been a hell of a year now I'm gonna feel sorry for yourself. It's been a hell of a year and held the year fast forward Thio Alan Watts the last two weeks listen to this 16 minute, 16 minute segment a number of times, and it's basically talking about dream and how if you have thought, exercise and if you think about it, if you could go to sleep at night and dream absolute pure bliss and you could do that, you dreams in one night you dreamed 75 years like a full life 75 years of nothing but bliss. No hardship, no heartache talking like beaches in Hawaii like mountain Top moments your whole life. 75 years of bliss. This suggestion is you could probably on Lee Dream that dream with absolute pure bliss for like, four or five times of 75 years. Like that's a law that's like 300 years of experience over four nights, pure bliss. Then the next night, you might say, Well, that was really cool, but like a wonder what would happen if I wasn't in full control and some things happened that were a little bit out of my control, and maybe they were good and maybe they were bad, but I didn't really have full control. And so, as you did that for maybe 70 another dream, another dream, another dream like that and you get to the place. And his suggestion is at some point you would get to the place where you are right now and recognizing that you you actually don't have control. But this is where you would want to be if you had the ability to just live pure bliss all the time. And so I've often being in sales, talked and thought of, talked with Michelle and thought through myself, like this idea of what? Mountain top moments, Valley moments? Yeah, mountaintop moments, Valley moments. And when you're in the valley, you come out of it on the other side and you think, Okay, Don't really want to spend too much time in the Valley. But there's lessons that I've learned here, and it's gonna help me appreciate the mountaintop that much more. And so this idea of coming to like where I am right now some way, somehow if I had full control, I would probably choose to be here totally if I could live in pure bliss like some of some of the challenges, some of the obstacles. My child didn't sleep last night, you know, my physical bodies eking and I'm in. I'm in pain. My business isn't where I want it to be. I'm not doing some of things. You could focus on those things that you don't have or you could recognize that you should appreciate them, because those are things that you would actually choose if you had pure bliss all the time. Or this because you could only do pure bless for so much to appreciate where you are yet what you can from where you are and keep moving forward.Andrew Bracewell: We'll bliss. So by definition, bliss can only be considered bliss in relation or comparison to something that is not bliss. If that's all you have now we're getting deep. Okay? We're probably not acquit equipped to have this conversation, But let's go for it. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like you, we think in comparison. So So that that makes a lot of sense to me.Curt Derksen: Death in life. Yeah, you're alive, and you appreciate being alive because you're aware of the absence. Or like the opposite of young. This being a life,Andrew Bracewell: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.Curt Derksen: That's what I've been fixated on her have been thinking about a lot lately. Like last little while is just as I'm preparing now for this next year and making sure that I really I kind of, like, screwed myself over in the sense that, like I set myself up, I wrote it down. That I was gonna be the obstacles were going to make me better. And as a result, I feel like I had a handful of obstacles and in relation to a lot of people that go through a lot harder stuff than me. This is, you know, this is minor, but this is my journey. This is my process. And so there has been 2019 had quite a quite an unraveling for me in a lot of senses. And those three unraveling has made me more authentic. I just help me have a large desire to be more authentic and identify more clearly who I am and what I want. And then just be that more often, let go of some of this stress and anguish that I create from trying to be something that I'm not be something to please somebody.Andrew Bracewell: It sounds like one of the takeaways. From what you're experiencing, this conversation you're having in your head is that you have a higher level of contentment about the space You're in 1% and it's funny cause contentment in some circles or in some contacts, people say contempt. Shit. Don't be content, you know, strives, drive, drive, drive, drive. But I think that's actually false messaging for the most part. And that contentment is bringing you something that you didn't have before. And I thinkCurt Derksen: it's It's that this idea of, like, contentment in striving it's a pendulum again, like I feel like in so many areas in my life. I've seen these pendulums where you can go one way or the other, and contentment is different than settling and striving can actually burn you out like striving can, actually, if you're okay, So I'm a do er like I do like I fill my time with doing things, and to this point, I'm I am where I am as a result of my getting shit done like I I I commit. I focus, I get after it and I make it happen. But I've also learned the double edge of that this year, that trying to do all the time and not taking time to appreciate and be in the moment and yet from the moment, and be content and express gratitude for where I am will burn me out. So I I read a book earlier this year and I can't think of the title of it right now. But it talked about the idea that there's different kinds of people. And so there are people that are intent or settlers. They'll just stay at the base of the mountain and they'll set up camp and they will get all the amenities and they're super happy just to be there. For sure. This is like the average person average, not in the sense that one's better than the other. Just that things are different. Yeah, so you're you're at base camp and you're happy to be there. And then there's another group of people that will, like climb a little bit above base camp and they'll set up camp, and then that's their home. They're happy to be there. And then there's another group of people that are climbing their whole life, and they spend their whole life trying to get the topic Everest. And so they've climbed to past base camp. They've climbed past the next level past base camp, and now they're like perpetually climbing. Mmm. And it's a matter of figuring out some kind of balance and figuring out what's right for you and for me. This is it's for immutable. Figure out what's right for me, like I default to being a climber who's constantly striving and trying to make things better for me and better for those around me. But I've also learned that climbing all the time, without rest and without, like appreciation and gratitude and and being content with what I have and who I am creates turmoil. Intention that living attention all the time is not not effective. Way to live like we actually only have this minute right now, like this is all we have. And so if this is the moment that we have, being here is what's important.Andrew Bracewell: That's a great metaphor that that mountain climbing metaphor resonates. Lemme all Shayera on anecdotal thought from my own life. Using that metaphor, I would suggest that to your point earlier, one is not better than the other. Whether you're the settler, the person who has a tendency to go halfway 3/4 the way, all the way life has got all types, and we all fit in somewhere in that. In that spectrum, I think in the current context of our world, there's certain people that get worshipped more than others, right. They fill the spectrum of our social media mediums and outlets. They get presented a particular way in Hollywood or on the news or whatever. And unfortunately, we are often times comparing ourselves to these people on a global level, no longer just comparing ourselves to our own tribe in our own backyards and our own, you know, cities. But we're now comparing ourselves to people who live half

Shortcut to finding our characters’ worst flaws and deepest fears? Yes, thank you.All Sarina had to do was say “protagonist character analysis” and we were off. Enneagrams, for those who have never heard of them [raises hand high] are descriptions of character types intended for “journeys of self-discovery.” But when it comes to knowing more about your protagonist (and love interest and antagonist and their mother and all the people) they’re pure solid gold, especially if you go romping down the rabbit hole of reading what people in various types (there are 9, with a “wing” in one direction or another) think of themselves and their relationships. Suddenly, you can think about how your character would play fantasy football, or interview for a job. But the best part is diving deep into how your character behaves at her/his/their very worst, and very best, along with what they most fear and what they believe they want. It’s like real butter on movie popcorn, people.Episode links and a transcript follow—but first, a preview of the #WritersTopFive that will be dropping into #AmWriting supporter inboxes on Monday, October 14, 2019: Top 5 Resources for Dictating Your Work. Not joined that club yet? You’ll want to get on that. Support the podcast you love AND get weekly #WriterTopFives with actionable advice you can use for just $7 a month. As always, this episode (and every episode) will appear for all subscribers in your usual podcast listening places, totally free as the #AmWriting Podcast has always been. This shownotes email is free, too, so please—forward it to a friend, and if you haven’t already, join our email list and be on top of it with the shownotes and a transcript every time there’s a new episode. To support the podcast and help it stay free, subscribe to our weekly #WritersTopFive email.LINKS FROM THE PODCASTThe Enneagram Institute (length type descriptions and relationships between the types under the “LEARN” tab).Free Enneagram test (there are many; this is the one KJ talked about, chosen largely at random for brevity and for being free) from eclecticenergies.com.Enneagram and Coffee on Instagram.#AmReading (Watching, Listening)Jess:  The Butterfly Girl and an essay “The Green River Killer and Me” by Rene Denfeld and Demi Moore’s memoir, Inside OutKJ: The Great Believers, Rebecca MakkaiSarina: The Play, Elle Kennedy#FaveIndieBookstorePrairie Path Books, Wheaton ILThis episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwritingfor details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s Inside-Outline template.Find more about Jess here, Sarina here and about KJ here.If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship.The image in our podcast illustration this week is from enneagramandcoffee on Instagram, and I asked permission to use it, although I confess that I’m posting it pre-reply. But I feel good about our odds. Plus, fun follow for everyone!Getting Ready to NaNoWriMo?Every episode of #AmWriting is sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. One key to that is the INSIDE OUTLINE, a tried and tested tool developed by Jennie Nash that can help you start a book, to help you rescue one that isn’t working, and to guide a revision.Author Accelerator is hosting a webinar about the Inside Outline just in time for NaNoWriMo prep on Monday, October 14 at Noon Pacific/2 PM Central/3 PM Eastern.Register even if you can’t attend live, as a replay will be sent to everyone who has registered.REGISTER FOR THE WEBINAR NOWTranscript (We use an AI service for transcription, and while we do clean it up a bit, some errors are the price of admission here. We hope it’s still helpful.)KJ:                                        00:01                    Hey Book people, before today’s episode of #AmWriting, I want to tell you about something new from our sponsor, Author Accelerator. No matter where you are in your own work, you’ve probably found yourself working with other writers on theirs. If that time spent encouraging, editing and helping someone else turned out to be pure joy for you, you might want to consider becoming a book coach yourself. Author Accelerator provides book coaching to authors (like me) but also needs and trains book coaches. If that’s got your ears perked up, head to https://www.authoraccelerator.com and click on “become a book coach.” Is it recording?Jess:                                     00:01                    Go ahead.KJ:                                        00:01                    This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone like I don't remember what I was supposed to be doing.Jess:                                     00:01                    All right, let's start over.KJ:                                        00:01                    Awkward pause, I'm going to rustle some papers.Jess:                                     00:01                    Okay.KJ:                                        00:01                    Now one, two, three. Hey I'm KJ Dell'Antonia and this is #AmWriting. We are the podcast about all things, writing short things, long things, fictional things, non-fictional things, memoirs things. And as I say, every single week in a variety of different ways, this is the podcast about sitting down and getting your work done.Jess:                                     01:23                    And I'm Jess Lahey. I'm the author of the Gift of Failure and a forthcoming book on preventing substance abuse in kids that is due in seven days. And you can find my writing at various places including the Washington Post and the New York Times.Sarina:                                 01:41                    I'm Sarina Bowen, the author of more than 30 romance novels and you can find me at sarinabowen.com.KJ:                                        01:49                    And I am KJ Dell'Antonia author of How To Be a Happier Parent and have a novel that will be coming out next summer. And the former editor of the New York Times' Motherlode blog. For the most part at the moment you can find me sitting in front of my laptop writing a new novel. And I'm going to just own that Sarina and I are snuggled up in our small town library, gazing out at there are a lot of really pretty trees, but these that we can see are not super spectacular and that, I forgot my microphone. So we might sound a little echoey.Jess:                                     02:24                    And from my perspective, I'm looking out on the woods behind my house and there are a couple of red leaves out there, but it's Vermont and it's just starting to get that orangy glow to it. It's really pretty. What was crazy is this week I went from Vermont - where I was wearing a sweatshirt - and I traveled to Charlotte, North Carolina where it was oppressively hot, it was like 95 degrees. And then I went New York where it was cold again and then back here. So it's just been a really interesting week of summer and getting into fall. So, I'm ready for fall. I'm happy about it.KJ:                                        03:09                    And now this is the podcast about all things weather, and enough of that. I am so excited about our topic today because this is going to be super fun. We're going to talk Enneagrams, which is a rabbit hole that Sarina went down one day. And then quickly texted to me and I immediately dove right in after her. But let me just say before you all go, 'Wait a minute, wait a minute'. We're not talking about our own Enneagrams, although we might. We're going to talk about doing it for characters, because it's so cool. But before we do, what is an Enneagram for those of us who don't know, which was actually mostly all of us until we started this. You can do the defining.Sarina:                                 04:07                    Oh good. The Enneagram, which seems to have had most of its big talk in the 60s with psychiatrists. Working in psychiatry in the 1960's and 70's is a framework for explaining various human psychological profiles, personality typing.KJ:                                        04:34                    It is not the one where you get I,D, J, H, Q, B, Y. This is the one where you get a number.Sarina:                                 04:42                    So there's nine numbers in a shape. And you were referring to the Myers-Briggs system personality typing, which I'm honestly not a huge fan of. Partly because it was forced upon me by my corporate overlords in my previous work life.Sarina:                                 05:03                    But the Enneagram is, as we'll discuss, uniquely useful for writers. Because both personality type systems have a lot to do with preferences and how you prefer to handle things and how you see the world. The Enneagram I quickly discovered is also really focused on character flaws. Like your super power is also your greatest weakness, right?KJ:                                        05:28                    Which is so perfect for creating both main characters and secondary characters. I mean, that's exactly what you need to know. What does this person fear? And what do they want? And that's what these nine types are. And also, I mean partly because there are nine and then they sort of spread out. There's like, the enthusiastic who leans towards the challenger or leans towards the loyalist. You get a lot of different - this is not cookie cutter, it's got a lot to it.Sarina:                                 06:03                    Right. And if you get a book about Enneagrams and you take a look, you'll see some discussion of the wings, which is a theory with the Enneagram that each of the nine types also has a secondary type, which is the adjacent number.KJ:                                        06:38                    So 27 possibilities, but all of which have a lot of range within them and happily you don't have to get a book on this, you can just hit our friend uncle Google.KJ:                                        06:52                    Right. And there's some nice reliable sources for information.Sarina:                                 06:57                    And our favorite is the Enneagram Institute. I was pointed there (I'd like to give a shout out to author Nana Malone) who is the first person who ever said the word Enneagram to me. And I had to go look it up and Nana Malone is a romance writer and now I need to go read everything she's written because she has a wonderfully nuanced understanding of how this all works for character typing. And she really sort of walked me through how she looks at it and I was immediately hooked.KJ:                                        07:27                    We're enchanted, in part because one of the things I like about this (besides that it helps you) we all start with a character and we have this sort of mental picture, and I think we often start from something kind of flat. You often start with a stereotype. So you're often like, 'Well, my person is a real type A, or my person is a real introvert. Like you kinda just start with one word and then you build from there. And after you've spent a little time building, then you can dig into these Enneagrams and you'll find the one that fits the person that you're creating. And then you can sort of start reading a little more and go, 'Oh yeah, totally.' We're in the Enneagram Institute right now and we're looking at the peacemaker. So peacemakers are accepting, and trusting, and stable. And you could see that could be a character, but then you know, you can go like really sort of down into it and they have a universal temptation to ignore the disturbing aspects of life and seek peace and comfort. They numb out. You can see how you can really use this to create someone.Sarina:                                 08:51                    So everybody's biggest super power is also their biggest weakness. And even though we like the sound of that as fiction writers, this really shows you how to do it.KJ:                                        09:03                    I'm just looking at nine here. It even tells you exactly what it is that nine is. We're not proposing you just grab this and like stick it into a book cold. But if you have a character who's a nine, their want is for everything to be peaceful and pleasant and can't we all just get along? But their need, which is right here on the bottom of the list of description of nine, is to remember that the only way out is through and you can't just brush your troubles under the carpet. And there you go. I mean, that's practically a plot right there.Sarina:                                 09:40                    It is. And they all are. Maybe we should just dive in and give a few examples. I'm writing a nine right now. Well, nine is, as you said, that the peacemaker or the peaceful mediator. And most any gram resources will tell you what is that person's greatest fear? And nine's fear being shut out. And they fear being overlooked. They fear losing connection with others and all kinds of conflict, tension, and discord. So, what they're longing for is that their presence really matters. And their desire is for inner stability and peace of mind, because of those basic fears. And so you can see that their weakness then would be to hide from the stuff that isn't quite hitting their peacemaker senses. So, you could remain in an idealistic place psychologically and not cope with the things going on around you.KJ:                                        10:51                    So this person needs to sort of break through that desire to keep everything idealistic and feeling like it's all safe and calm and get to a point where they actually feel secure.Sarina:                                 11:07                    So let's contrast the nine with a seven.KJ:                                        11:09                    That's perfect because I'm writing a seven.Sarina:                                 11:11                    Me too.KJ:                                        11:12                    Oh, excellent.Sarina:                                 11:14                    Well, my seven is a party boy.KJ:                                        11:16                    My seven is a failed child actress.Sarina:                                 11:21                    Well, this number is usually called the enthusiast. And their basic desire is to be happy and satisfied, fulfilled and engaged. So sevens hate boredom and they're easily bored. And I was listening to a podcast with Ian Cron who has what is probably the most popular Enneagram book out there. And it has a bright yellow cover, The Road Back To You, I think. And he was very clear about how sevens leave a wake of unfinished projects behind them because of their attention span. And there's always something more interesting to be doing. And I really particularly liked his descriptive appeal about all of these. And there's one, I don't think it started like this in the 60's and 70's, but a lot of the writings about Enneagrams now are from a faith-based kind of Christian perspective. I don't read much faith-based stuff, but he had a really light touch that that made me want to seek out his book anyway. Even if even if the Christian angle is not what's interesting to me about it. So the seven and the nine don't look at the world the same way, even though they're in the same world together sometimes and have to have to sort through that. And in each case you're handed weaknesses. And so if you look at the Enneagram Institute site, it will actually tell you what a romantic pairing.KJ:                                        13:05                    We can just look that up right now. Relationships types, we've got a seven and a nine here and I'll just go under seven and hit the nine. And we can see what each type brings to the relationship.Sarina:                                 13:21                    They bring a good mix of similar and opposite qualities. Fundamentally, they're both positive outlook types who are optimistic, upbeat, and prefer to avoid conflicts.KJ:                                        13:33                    There's gotta be a but here.Sarina:                                 13:34                    Oh, there's absolutely always a but. That's why we like Enneagrams. So sevens are more active and self-assertive than nines. They tend to take initiatives and to make the plans and have multiple interests and they bring the fun and sparkle and the party atmosphere. Well nines bring a sense of steadiness and support so you can see how that might build.KJ:                                        13:56                    And that's one of the things sevens want is somebody to take care of them. One of the seven's weaknesses that I've found that I'm exploiting in my person is that they want to feel like somebody else. They would like to seed the decision making to someone else. So that they can just sort of party along, having a good time and you know, getting a chance to try everything and do everything and experience everything, but not necessarily have to make any hard choices. So here are the potential trouble spots for that possible relationship between the seven and the nine. Sevens are more equipped to talk about whatever's bothering them. But they often feel they cannot help themselves and honesty demands they tell the nine how unhappy they are with them.Sarina:                                 14:54                    That's a good scene.KJ:                                        14:55                    One of the sunniest and most carefree couples can become one of the most hopelessly tortured if they become unwilling or unable to really talk with each other. Why do I have a feeling that is going to happen to the poor seven and nine?Sarina:                                 15:10                    But that's also like the classic Harry Potter and Dumbledore problem, right? Just knock on his office door, Harry.KJ:                                        15:17                    That's every book. I mean, it's not a good book unless you're shouting, 'Just tell them. Just tell people, just tell everyone what's wrong. Just tell them the truth.'.Sarina:                                 15:28                    You know what, though? You make a good point because that is in every book, but it's not always good in every book. So you have to earn it.KJ:                                        15:36                    And it has to be different and the person has to have a really good reason for not telling the truth. So you have to understand why they're not going to. And if they don't, if you're sitting there reading along going, 'Oh, come on. Like you know, this character would just tell her boss everything or whatever, then that's it.' You're not going to keep going. So, Enneagrams can help you to find the reasons that your character is not telling the deep dark secret. Not telling the deep, dark secret is not revealing everything about themselves or whatever. And then you can also head out and have a look. So one of the things I think is fun about the Enneagram is that it's a great way to find some things about your character that would be true to this person that you have created, that are also quirky. And a funny way to do that if you just want to sort of wander through the world of quirks of different things is to (I mean there's probably a lot of places to do this) but we happened to have found the Instagram account for Enneagrams and Coffee. It's lovely, it's really funny. So, for example there's a post here where she says, 'I need someone who for each Enneagram type. So sevens need someone who doesn't stop on my ideas and nine needs someone who asks them really good questions and genuinely listened to the answers. Sometimes these are funny, sometimes they're not. But the reason I loved it is you can come up with a bizarre quirk that your person always does. So walking down the sidewalk sevens are dance walking. And you could use that. And what you get is sort of quirks that are gonna be consistent with a personality type that maybe you are not, but you know people that are like this, you can feel it. You can sort of get their three-dimensionals. For example, when they play fantasy football they're the one that's always trying to trade. Or whatever. That might not occur to you, but it might be perfect for your person. And it's just fun.Sarina:                                 18:04                    I liked the fantasy football one, too. I read that one. We should do a few more types because it makes our examples better. So type one is the reformer, the moral perfectionist. And I have to say, that I think I might be this type.KJ:                                        18:21                    We will put a link to a quiz you can take that is free. And frankly the link was chosen entirely because I Googled free Enneagram test and this one was free and kind of long and seemed good. So we'll put a link and you can figure out your own because of course that's fun. Alright, so type one, possibly Sarina.Sarina:                                 18:43                    You really like rule following. I don't like to make the rules, but I like to make sure that everyone else is following them. Number two, the helper, the supportive advisor. So the number twos are the people who are making sure that there's somebody working in the soup kitchen on Christmas Eve and they really, really love helping other people and it really feeds them.KJ:                                        19:11                    But they also like to be appreciated for their doing of this. I'll talk about this in a later episode if I'm not quite done with it, but I just read The Logger Queen of Minnesota and loved it. And there's a total two, like one of the main characters and there is just two, two, two. They're always doing exactly that, but their inner thought is always, 'You know, basically maybe when I'm dead everyone will appreciate how much I did.'.Sarina:                                 19:39                    And number three is the achiever. So that's the person in the CEO office burning the midnight oil, you know, making sure he's on top of the heap. And I think, in my earlier life I was more of a three before I found my inner one.KJ:                                        19:58                    I've got a three in my next book. I've got a broken down, beaten up, three. In the book I'm writing.Sarina:                                 20:07                    Okay. So four is the romantic individualist. So the who's the Harry Potter character?KJ:                                        20:13                    Luna Lovegood.Sarina:                                 20:13                    Writing the poetry, gazing at the moon, singing a song, interpretive dance.KJ:                                        20:22                    I remember some fun stuff I liked about this one. Also empathy, they see themselves as uniquely talented, special, one of a kind, but also uniquely disadvantaged or flawed. So you see this in a lot of characters where they feel like they're super special and they're different from everyone else. And one of the things that they often have to discover, which I'm sure I could find if I sort of scroll down here, is that other people also share their needs, or share their interests, or are willing to sort of be part of them. My longings can never be fulfilled because I now realize that I'm attached to the longing itself and not to this best specific result. So that's what the four needs is to figure out how to be attached to something besides this sort of dream of themselves as special.Sarina:                                 21:25                    Type five, the investigative thinker. And that's supposed to be the most analytical personality type. And also tending toward introvert.KJ:                                        21:37                    So it's a little obvious, but if you were writing in the mystery genre, you probably at least would want to hit this so you could figure out whether your person had this or didn't have this. And if your main character doesn't, there's probably someone in your plot that does. I could see that.Sarina:                                 21:54                    So five is like Sherlock Holmes.KJ:                                        21:57                    Yeah. I'm looking at this - so perceptive and innovative, sure. But also secretive and isolated. I mean, that's a thousand detective story heroes. But they're all interesting and deep and it's not like a two dimensional thing. Alright. Six the loyalist. What do you have on the loyalist?Sarina:                                 22:19                    You know, I haven't done enough that I understand this one so well. But, sixes know how to be on a team, but they're a bit anxious. Like they're Woody Allen, making all of my anxieties, wearing them on the outside.KJ:                                        22:38                    The cool thing about the Enneagram Institutes, their key motivations are they want to have security, they want to feel supported by others, to test the attitudes of others towards them, and to fight against their anxieties and securities. I mean, once again, I could write a dozen plots in that. Oh, this one gives George Costanza. Okay, so now we know what a six is. A six is George Costanza. Do you like me? Do you really like me? I don't think you like me. I'm just going to be really awful until I see whether or not you like me. But I'm also going to be completely loyal to you at all times. That's a six, I like a six. Then, just to keep sort of going with what we can do character wise here, if you scroll down to the bottom of this extremely useful free site, they talk about how at their best the six is self affirming, and trusting of others, and independent, belief in themselves leads to true courage. Okay, that's where your six gets to at the end of your book, right? But at the beginning, your six is ... let's don't go all the way down to hysterical. I guess this is probably where they drop down to.Sarina:                                 23:55                    Yeah, that's the darkest moment.KJ:                                        23:58                    The darkest moment for the level six - they're self destructive and suicidal. They're on skid row.Sarina:                                 24:05                    Okay, well that's pretty dark. Not in a comedy, maybe.KJ:                                        24:09                    Yeah, maybe in a comedy you only go to level seven.Sarina:                                 24:12                    But you do bring up a good point, which is that Enneagram writers like to talk about, what an unhealthy version of each one of these things looks like. And my friend Nana Malone was saying that she looks at these unhealthiest levels, like what's the worst version of that character's self? And then she sort of looks at that to be the dark moment of her novel. And tries to make those things pan out each time.KJ:                                        24:44                    And it's really cool reading this stuff about the six. You can see them sort of deteriorating. You know, to compensate for their insecurities they become sarcastic and belligerent, blaming others for their problems. And then they just sort of keep sinking lower. But then hopefully they come back around and end up believing in themselves and finding their true courage. I'm not sure that ever happened for poor George Costanza yet.Sarina:                                 25:08                    The series ended before he got there.KJ:                                        25:10                    We can hope that he found himself in a prison cell.Sarina:                                 25:13                    The only one we haven't mentioned is number eight.KJ:                                        25:16                    Okay, well conveniently enough, number eight is the one I dropped into.Sarina:                                 25:23                    Really? So tell me about eight, because I don't think I understand this one.KJ:                                        25:26                    Eights are challengers, rebels. Yeah, that would be me. And the quirky thing about eight, the thing that kept popping up everywhere is that eights also wants to try everything. So eights are ordering everything in the restaurant because they don't want to miss out on everything. So that's an eight characteristic. Decisive, willful, prefers other people to do what they want. That might be me. Yeah, I was sort of in between. I was like, 'Am I seven or am I eight?' But I tested out as an eight.Sarina:                                 26:02                    So the fear here is of being controlled, like letting someone else make all their decisions.KJ:                                        26:08                    To be in control of their own life, says the unemployable, freelance writer. So that would be me. Yeah, I didn't spend a ton of time on it, but apparently I could rebuild a city, run a household, wage war, make peace. I have all kinds of things within my Enneagram. It's a rabbit hole, we can't deny it. But man, it's a useful rabbit hole. When you're thinking about your character and trying to create someone who is three-dimensional and whole, who isn't either too perfect or too flawed. You can't read this and go, 'Okay, well I'm just going to apply this Willy nilly.' You have to go, 'Well, okay, what would somebody in my character's situation who has these fears, that has these desires, what might they do? You know, what might they have done at some moment in their past? What would be affecting what they do now?' It's hugely fun.Sarina:                                 27:15                    So it's been really useful for me on the book that I need to finish next, in a couple of months or whatever. But I have to say that I have discovered a big question in my head about how this all fits together because when you use the Enneagram as your character basis, it almost, but not accurately... So here's a moment where once I learned more about it, I'll find my answer. But the other way we build characters is to look at their big emotional wound and to understand how this thing that happened earlier in life is shaping all of their decisions and their outlooks now, which is somewhat in conflict with the idea that you're born seeing the world a certain way. So yeah, I mean if you want to go with that character background that you know, he witnessed a horrible accident or you know, some big thing in his or her past made that person be the way they are right now, there's a little bit of struggle there. And between that framework for making your character arc and this sort of innate diversion.KJ:                                        28:33                    I think that when it comes to creating character, I can probably work with either way. You need to have the emotional wound or the moment in their background or the lengthy experience. You know, there are a lot of options there. It doesn't have to be a single event that gives them whatever misbelief that they're sort of traveling through life with, right? But I feel like I personally can take the Enneagram and either start it there, it doesn't bother me, I'm cool. They don't have to have been born with it. I find that I can't make a person - like basically the minute I start to make a person and I want to give the person a name, I have to know who their parents are and sometimes even who their parents are. Not like in depth, but I can't even name you unless I know what your mother and father would have named you.Sarina:                                 29:30                    Well that's really healthy as a fiction writer because you will save yourself time, I think. Because I actually kind of take the opposite approach whereas that I usually know some dramatic thing that's going to happen at the 50% point. And so the beginning part of my characterization sounds like I'm holding a Barbie doll and a Ken doll, one in each hand. And the dialogue that's coming is just as bad as it sounds like it would be. And I have to sort of bumble through that a while until I figure out what they're really saying to each other. So, if I knew who their parents and grandparents were, the first draft of chapter one would be a lot better.KJ:                                        30:11                    Maybe. Sometimes you get lots and lots of pages on who their parents and grandparents are that you really, really don't need. But yeah, I can't even give them a name until I know where the name would've come from. And then to know that, sometimes I have to know why the parents' names were what they were. I guess I think names are really important. I could probably find a naming rabbit hole, I've found them all.Sarina:                                 30:37                    I've bought baby books when my kids were already teenagers, just for this purpose. Seriously, there's a lot of baby books in the world.KJ:                                        30:45                    I just Google, you know, common surnames or common first names for people with X descent and that kind of thing.Sarina:                                 30:54                    And I'm sure you've discovered this social security naming database. So in case our listeners don't know, this U.S. Social Security database publishes the most popular 100 names for girls or boys for every birth year, going back a good amount.KJ:                                        31:14                    Right. Which is great because if you need to bring somebody's grandmother or great aunt into the story, you don't want to name them Madison. That'd be wrong.Sarina:                                 31:24                    So you would go back and you would look at the database for the year of 1939 and see that Sally who was the number 17 or whatever.KJ:                                        31:37                    Character creation is so fun. I felt like I could just create characters all day, but darn it, then they have to go and do something and I have to be mean and make terrible things happen to them. And I have to have them make terrible choices. And that is where the glorious thing about this Enneagram is that man, does it give you the reasons that your characters make really, really, really terrible choices. And contrary to all appearances Jess is still here.Jess:                                     32:08                    I'm still here. No, I was going to say, recently I'd noticed a Sarina posting things to her Sarina Facebook group that she's been doing mean things to characters lately and I've been wondering about what kind of evil stuffs been going on over in Sarina's writing world.KJ:                                        32:26                    You got to do mean things. I think I put it up somewhere - woke up, did mean things to character. I don't remember what it was.Sarina:                                 32:35                    I feel like I haven't always been very good at that.KJ:                                        32:38                    Yeah, it's a weakness of mine, too. Like, why don't they just make all the great choices and the whole book will just be the happy middle.Sarina:                                 32:47                    Well plus, honestly, I let readers' angst into my head. Like, I'm writing a book about two characters that my readers have already met and I know that they're not gonna want me to make him make bad choices. Like I can the already hear the, 'Don't make him do that.' And those voices are kind of hard to shut off sometimes.KJ:                                        33:13                    Yeah I have to just have the voice that's like, 'Oh, you know that's just too hard. That's just too much. That's too awful. Nobody wants to read about that.' But yeah, we do. We absolutely do. That's exactly what we want to read about. And speaking about what we want to read about - should we talk about what we have been reading about?Sarina:                                 33:31                    Absolutely.KJ:                                        33:32                    Alright.Jess:                                     33:33                    Who's going first?KJ:                                        33:35                    You go first cause we haven't heard from you for awhile.Jess:                                     33:38                    Okay. So because I've been traveling this week and I've been doing a lot of audio book listening and I listened to some really interesting things. I also want to talk about the fact that Renee Denfeld's book The Butterfly Girl came out this past week. She also published (and I know I've talked about her before) She wrote The Enchanted, she wrote The Child Finder and The Butterfly Girl is the next book in a sequence with the same protagonist that was in The Child Finder. But what's so interesting about Renee is that she's just decided, I have never seen her do this before, she just wrote something, memoiry for crimereads.com. It was an essay called The Green River Killer and Me because Renee was a teen runaway, she lived on the streets. She grew up in a very unsafe situation. And so the stuff that she writes about, these kids on the streets that get lost and sort of lost in the system and lost in the world, she's lived that. And so it was really fascinating. I've been so engrossed in Renee Denfeld's fiction, to suddenly read this piece of memoir from her. It was such a gift and it's a beautiful piece of writing. Crimereads.com. The Green River Killer and Me. But then I have something really fun. I decided to do something a little bit light for this trip. And so I listened to Demi Moore's memoir called Inside Out. And you know when there are those memoirs where you feel like you're hearing a little too much. Like, I don't think I should be hearing this. She spills everything and I got a little uncomfortable. And it was also really weird cause I read it right after it came out, which is when they were looking for like Ashton Kutcher for his response to what she accuses him of in the book. And so in real time I could see on Twitter how people were responding to this book. If you're looking for a juicy, sort of scoopy memoir, this is the one for you. And you know, I also didn't realize she'd been through some of the stuff that she's been through. But it also made me a little uncomfortable.KJ:                       

Welcome to the 11th episode of the Miracle Ford Podcast! This week we speak with Jim Odell, the Used Car Manager at Miracle Ford! Jim has been with Miracle for over 26 years! This is a great episode where we get to know Jim very well, his background, hobbies and his passion… Used Cars. This is a great episode that is jam packed full of information that you DO NOT want to miss. Enjoy! Topics Discussed: Jim’s BackgroundGrowing up in New JerseyHis Music BackgroundHow he met his wifeCollegeWhat Makes Miracle DifferentHow to maximize the value of your car before trading inThe Miracle Ford “Gong”Using online appraisal toolsPreserving the Paint JobAutomatic car washes Transcript John Haggard 0:02 Welcome to the Miracle Ford podcast where throughout each month, you’ll be able to learn the best ways to purchase, lease, service and maintain, also accessorize, and sell your vehicle for the highest resale value possible when you’re ready to do it. You’ll also find out about new technology on new vehicles. I’m your host, John Haggard, and throughout each month right here, we’ll have different team members join us from Miracle Ford to bring you tips you can use. Now you will also see a transcript of every podcast so that you can easily refer to it I find sometimes people want to get additional information and say what was that that he said? And you can see it right there at your fingertips. Today’s topic is how to maximize the value of your trade-in. And on this podcast we have with us, Jim Odell. He’s the Used Car Sales Manager at Miracle Ford in Gallatin. Hey, Jim, welcome to the podcast. Jim Odell 0:54 Thank you, John, great to be here. John Haggard 0:55 Well, you know, when somebody is ready to trade in a vehicle, Jim, there are a lot of things you should know on how to maximize the trade-in value. I mean, everybody wants to, you know, get the most amount of money. Why not? But before we dive into those specifics, tell us a little bit about your background. Did you grow up in Gallatin, Jim? Jim Odell 1:13 No, I’ve been here in the Tennessee area for about 26 years now. I actually grew up outside of New York City in northern New Jersey. John Haggard 1:25 Wow. Okay, so we’ll call you a local but you do not have that New Jersey accent? Jim Odell 1:30 No, no, you know, my, my mom was real strict about No, you can’t sound like you’re from Brooklyn or Bronx or whatever. And so she made sure that we spoke just the regular English without too much of an accent. John Haggard 1:46 There you go. Well, what a great mom, what a great mom. So you went to high school there, I guess, right? Jim Odell 1:51 Yeah, I went to high school in northern New Jersey, in a town called Franklin Lakes. The High School was called Ramapo. It’s a comprised part of Franklin Lakes and part of Wyckoff, New Jersey and great place to go to school. Still have some friends from there. John Haggard 2:08 All right. And just to try to get a picture of the map for folks that don’t know exactly where that is, I guess if you were going to say, how many miles south of New York City – Center City, would that be where you were where you grew up? Jim Odell 2:20 Well, we were basically just west of New York City. So if, if you kind of picture Manhattan Island, kind of the upper part of Manhattan Island where the George Washington bridges if you go over the George Washington Bridge, and you had west by about 30 miles, that’s where I grew up in, Wyckoff, New Jersey. John Haggard 2:42 Okay, so did you head into New York City as you were growing up? Jim Odell 2:46 We did. Yeah. Sometimes with sometimes without my parents consent, but yeah. John Haggard 2:54 So when you were in high school, and in the northern New Jersey area, what was the most one thing you did while in school? Jim Odell 3:03 Oh, you know, the same thing I guess that most kids do. I wasn’t involved in sports myself. I really didn’t grow up and out until I was about a junior in high school. So I really wasn’t athletically inclined. So, you know, I went to the sporting events as a spectator and watched all that and you know, just had my social group of friends that we hung around with. Did a lot of listening to music, and and we did a few concerts together, like I guess most high school kids did. Just your regular high school stuff. John Haggard 3:38 Yeah. What were some of your favorite groups that the the concerts that you went to? Jim Odell 3:42 Well, now I was, I was one of those kids that was, I don’t know, experimental music. I listened to groups like Genesis, those types of bands. Progressive rock is what they call it today. And of course, I liked you know, the rock and roll stuff, the Led Zeppelin and the The Who and The Beatles and things like that. But yeah, it was. That was a big influence on me. In fact, I still play music today. I’m a drummer, actually, John Haggard 4:14 Really? So you’re a drummer, now? You say you play music today? Are you like, have a group? Jim Odell 4:22 Well, actually, I do. I’m the drummer of a three-piece band. We call ourselves 3 MAG – three M-A-G, which stands for three middle aged guys. Now. We, we may have to change the name because I’ve recently hit the 60 mark. So yeah, we may be three old guys pretty soon. You There you go. John Haggard 4:40 There you go. Wow. So every weekend, you’re playing somewhere for money, I guess, right? Jim Odell 4:45 Well, not so much that we have done that. But we, you know, we all have real jobs. And it’s hard to get together, or hard to get out and play music out when you have a real job. So but we do still get together and you know, just get together and play music and just do that. We also have recorded music. So we actually have a few CDs that we have available that we’ve recorded. So it’s kind of neat there too. All John Haggard 5:13 Right. So you have one of those concession tables at Miracle Ford. Here are CDs, grab them while you can they’re going fast, folks. That sounds fun. You mentioned your wife and and you’ve been here about 26 years if I got that correct as well. Do you have other family here in the area? Jim Odell 5:31 Well, her family is from this area or has lived in this area a little longer than and we’ve been here. But yeah, her mom and dad, her sister, two brothers are all here with nieces, nephews, that kind of thing. So yeah, we have a pretty extended family here. John Haggard 5:47 Wow. You know, that’s always fun to know how people meet because there you were in northern New Jersey, her family is here. How did you all meet? Jim Odell 5:57 Well, at the time, when we met we met in at college at the University of Dayton. And at that time, she was living in Louisville, Kentucky. So from there to date, and was just a couple of hours. Now me, I followed a brother, my oldest brother, who went to college there. So we just met in Dayton, Ohio, and the rest is history. John Haggard 6:20 And the rest is history, as they say. You know, before we went on the podcast together here, you mentioned, hey, John, we just got back from vacation. And you were saying you went to Italy, to Greece, to Israel, you’re on a cruise. What was the most exciting and fun thing? I guess it was all of it? Probably? Jim Odell 6:38 Oh my gosh, yeah, it was, we literally call it the trip of a lifetime. It’s something we had been wanting to do. We were gone for 17 days total, which is just phenomenal to be able to get away from work for that long. But so many memories, and so, you know, just beautiful countries that we visited and, and people and of course, Israel being the Holy Land, we saw so many sites that just, you know, kind of bring you down to your knees, so to speak, and just a phenomenal adventure that we had. John Haggard 7:10 You know, it sounds like you know, a drummer, international travel. So what would you say is the one thing about you, Jim, that most people would not know that someone would really be surprised to know about Jim Odell? Jim Odell 7:25 Well, that music thing that’s, that’ll… Whenever I say I’m a drummer, they’d go, “Really? That’s really interesting!” And, to that end, I actually play drums at our church just… not really drums when you think of what a drummer would be doing, but more just percussion I guess you could say. Little snare drum, a little cymbal, that kind of thing just to accent the music. But I do that and, and people are surprised that I do that. So yeah, I guess that would be the one thing that that would people would go really I never knew. I never figure you for that. That kind of thing. John Haggard 8:00 Alright, so if somebody wanted to come see you drum in church, where do you attend? Jim Odell 8:05 I go to Our Lady of the Lake Church in Hendersonville. It’s a Catholic Church. John Haggard 8:10 Alright folks, there you know if you want to see Jim Odell on the drums, there’s the place to go. Alright, so let’s move from entertainment, international travel, living in northern New Jersey. How did you get into the car business? Jim Odell 8:26 Well, what happened is, as I said, I went met my wife in Dayton, Ohio. We basically dated throughout college and decided to get married. At the time she was living in Louisville, but during the time that she was in college, her mom and dad moved to Gallatin, Tennessee, where Jim Galvin, Sr. bought Miracle Ford. He since then has opened up Miracle Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram. And he, at one point, invited me down to become a part of the dealership. And I said, well, let’s go ahead and do that. So that’s how I’ve been here. And prior to doing that, I actually had 12 years that I was in the airline business John Haggard 9:16 Airlines? Jim Odell 9:17 Yeah, I worked for Northwest Airlines, I was a little bit of everything. You know, I started off in the reservations office. I went to move from there to the Detroit area, and worked in, you know, at the gate, and the ticket counter, ultimately became a service manager. But the airline business just turned out to be, I don’t know, a different environment than what I expected when when the airline went into its first bankruptcy. You know, as it’s common when those things happen. There was a lot of slashing of reducing of management. And people that I hadn’t known that I kind of thought would be able to move me along, all of a sudden weren’t there anymore. And at that same time, Mr. Galvin, opened up the Chrysler dealership and said, I’m in need of people to come and work for me, would you be interested in I said, Well, yeah, let’s go ahead and do it. John Haggard 10:17 So how did you all meet? Jim Odell 10:21 Again, we just met at college, just socially. We were, she was at a party. I was at a party. I said, that girl looks pretty cute. Let me go and talk to her. And like I said, the rest is history. We’ve been married. In fact, our anniversary was just yesterday. We’ve been married for 36 years. Wow. And we have three wonderful children and two grandchildren. John Haggard 10:42 You know, the question really was see, I know what is on top of your mind. But when I was asking you, how did you meet, I was actually talking about how you met the Galvin family? Jim Odell 10:52 Well, yeah. From dating, her daughter met the Galvin family, and we hit it off just fine. And he said, Okay, I’ll let you marry my daughter. And you know, it just he needed someone to take care of her, I needed somebody to take care of me. And he said, all right, I guess you two are meant to be then. John Haggard 11:20 That is really super. Now you have seen, you know, Miracle Ford, obviously, a family dealership. And there are a lot of dealerships that are owned by the big mega Wall Street corporations. And I guess you know, when people come in, Jim, there is a difference. Maybe they talk about what it’s like when they were at another dealership that’s owned by one of the big conglomerates. But based on your experience, and people that you speak to what is the big difference? I mean, isn’t a car a car at the end of the day? Isn’t a price a price at the end of the day? Or what’s the difference? I mean, why would you know, why would somebody really want to deal with a Miracle Ford versus anybody else? Jim Odell 11:59 Well, and you’re right cars, a car price is a price. You could probably buy a car for the same price that Miracle Ford that you could buy a car for at one of these big conglomerate dealerships. But the difference, I think that you’re going to find is just the backbone of the dealership, as I said, I’m, I guess you could say, part of this family part of the management group that has guided the dealership. And, you know, it comes down to relationships, and not the extreme pressure that dealership might face. If that dealership was owned by, you know, a multi billion dollar corporation, now we obviously are, you know, pressed to, to make money to, to satisfy the customer. But we also do it just in a different environment, a different mindset, which I think if you’re the consumer that’s looking to buy a vehicle from a CarMax, or just a big one of these big dealers. And you have the same option at a Miracle Ford, I think overall, your experience with Miracle Ford is going to be just that little bit better, because of the fact that we are a little closer tied to you. And I think that’s, to me, that’s what most people are looking for. They’re obviously Yeah, you know, you’re spending a lot of money on a vehicle. And you want to make sure you get the best value. But ultimately, you want to make sure that you’re getting the best in everything. Service, quality of how you’re dealt with how your talk to, and all those things really do come into play. And I think we become the advantage there to a larger dealer. John Haggard 13:49 Right, before we talk about tips on how to maximize the value of your car before you trade it in. What about, you know, you’re alluding to this a little but groups like Carvana and all this online? You know, you don’t need to see anybody, you know, just go online, a car is a car… What are the I guess the disadvantage or maybe some scary stories? Or why would you know what, why? Why them? I mean, why not do that? Jim Odell 14:16 Well, and you know, there is a movement toward that. But why not us? I guess would maybe be the answer to, to that is, you know, we have folks that send in internet leads, we respond to them, we set up a time we we give them information in advance for them to be basically ready to go ahead and do business when they walk into the dealership. So while we may not have that same kind of carve on a thing where we deliver the car to a customer, although we have done that, I think it’s just you can get the same experience if that’s the experience that you’re looking for, from a dealership like Miracle Ford, by just starting the process online. And, and we have all the ability to do that to give you everything that you need to basically just walk into the store and say, that’s the car that I want. We’ve already discussed everything and and be in and out. John Haggard 15:20 All right. So really no difference. You find the car… Jim Odell 15:24 That’s right. John Haggard 15:24 All right. Is there anything really cool at Miracle Ford that people may not know about? Something that’s like, you know, just really kind of a neat thing? Jim Odell 15:36 Well, we recently, and me being a drummer, you would have thought that I would have thought of this, prior to it showing up in the showroom. But we recently put a gong in the middle of the showroom. So when customers get all done with their paperwork, and if they have said yes to buying the car, we have them walk out into the showroom, and they take a mallet and they bang the gong as loud as they want to bang it. And it really is pretty cool. It really it. It makes you laugh, it makes you smile. And it kind of gives that customer that little I did it, you know, here’s the proof. John Haggard 16:15 Now, who came up with the idea? Jim Odell 16:18 Actually, that was my brother in law, Jim Galvin, Jr, the general manager. So I have to give him props where it’s appropriate. And yeah, all of a sudden, this gong showed up and I went, I should have thought of this. I’m the drummer in the family. But it really is fun. John Haggard 16:35 All right, well, let’s talk about tips. Someone’s getting ready thinking about okay, you know, I’ve had my car three years or 10 years, or five, or six, or whatever it is, I want to trade it in. But I want to be sure that I’m going to get the most amount again, because money’s money, like you said, that I can get from my car. So how would you advise someone as they’re beginning to, you know, they’re in the market or beginning to get into the market to trade, what do they need to do? How do you increase the value or maximize the value of your car. Jim Odell 17:06 And I would say it goes back to when you first acquire a vehicle. You know that the truth of the matter is cars are depreciating assets, we all know that and everybody knows that. What you just want to do is minimize your depreciation. So what I would do, or what I would suggest is when you first buy a vehicle, treat it like it needs to be treated, you know, make sure that it’s well maintained and all of that. But prior to coming into a dealership, if you’ve got a three year old car or a 10 year old car, you know, just kind of assess it. Does it need some tires on it? Does it need brake work? Has as the brake pedal kind of been pulsating as I pushed down on the on the brake? And maybe take care of minor maintenance items that might need to be done to increase the value of the car. Because these are the kinds of things when I’m doing an appraisal, you know, I’m stepping into a carfor the first time. I’m looking at everything on it. I’m looking at the interior condition, I’m looking at the exterior condition, does it have dings. But then I’m going to drive it and I’m going to feel what I just kind of described. Does the brake pedal pulsate? Does that mean that it probably needs some brake pads? And so the best tip that I can give a customer is just make sure that your car is well maintained, treated like it is a an important asset, which it is. And that will improve the the overall value that you get for the car. And the other thing that I guess I could also suggest is there’s plenty of online type of appraisal type of tools. You know, Kelley Blue Book is one and it’s one that we use, in addition to a lot of other things to how we assess the value of the car. But you can do kind of a self-assessment and say, but be realistic about it. If you’ve got a 10 year old car that’s got 150,000 miles is probably not going to be an excellent condition. Just say, all right, well, it’s in good or fair condition. And, and you’ll have an idea of what you can expect for the car. And then again, like I said, make sure that everything’s in running condition and and if you don’t want to spend that money, well, that’s okay. Just know that that somebody ultimately is going to have to spend that money to bring that car up to a resale standard. So it just comes down to do you want the best out of your car treated like it’s a valuable piece of asset. John Haggard 19:37 Got it. Got it. You know, and one thing that just came to mind when you were talking about that, is there any tip about how to preserve your paint job? Should it be waxed every three months, six months and not at all? Should there be any sealant put on it, or you don’t have to do that today or? Jim Odell 19:53 We actually offer a sealant product here at the dealership both for new and used vehicles, that will definitely improve the overall appearance of the car. Keep it to where nothing can get below the clear coat. And it’ll maintain that new vehicle appearance. But sure things like just waxing the car, I’d say maybe once a year, that’s going to keep that paint looking fresher, newer. And certainly that’s going to affect the resale value, the assessed value when you go to trade it in. Because if it looks good on the outside, and if it runs good, well, that’s the kind of car that people are looking for. Everybody wants to make sure that they’re not getting stuck with someone else’s problem. And you know, we and me personally, as a used car manager, I’m not going to put something out on the lot, that was somebody’s problem and just shoo it off to someone else. We’re going to, we’re going to probably say, you know, this car either is going to need this in this in this taken care of before we put it out on the lot or if taking care of this and this and this is more money than we want to spend, well, then we’ll just decide to wholesale it and and, and move on to another vehicle. That’s all. John Haggard 21:09 All right. One other final question that came to mind and that is a little bit of controversy about taking cars or your car through a carwash. You know, some advertise, hey, we’re brushless, you know, we’re not going to do anything to scratch. Others have the you know, the thing that touches all over your car and so forth. Any advice there? Is it a good idea or bad idea? Should you be touchless, does it matter? Jim Odell 21:32 These touchless… I mean, I have been through these car washes. And I personally like to just hand wash a car. Now I know you can’t do that all the time. And especially, you know, if you’re elderly or whatever, you’re just not able to do it anymore. But yeah, there are there are those car washes that are better than others. The ones that don’t have as much, you know, if you’ve been in some of these car washes, and the cars rocking back and forth. You know, that might be an indicator this the maybe this thing’s doing a little bit more to the car that I want it to be doing. But yeah, I’m kind of on the fence on that when there are some car washes that I’ve used that are good. There’s some others that I’ve used that aren’t so good. Taking a, you know, they’ve taken antenna off the car, so to speak. But yeah, if you could hand wash your car, or even take it to someone where it could be hand-washed, and like you said before, is a good idea to wax a car. Sure, take it to somebody who does a hand detailing, maybe once every year or every two years, something like that. And get the outside looking really good again. They’ll they’ll shampoo the carpet. And we actually have a detailed department here, we can do most of those things. Not fine tooth comb detail, but we can make your car you know, a step above where it was, and do that here at the dealership as well. John Haggard 23:00 Alright, well, Jim, is there anything… I did not ask you that you would want folks to know either about you or Miracle Ford? Jim Odell 23:10 Well, I think we’ve had a pretty good conversation here. And I think, you know, we’ve covered a bunch. It’s a dealership, like I said, the one thing I guess I would… Maybe my final thoughts would be, I’ve been in this business now 26 years. It’s the only dealership that I’ve ever worked for. So I really don’t have some of the experience maybe that some other people have of being in this type of store or that type of store. All I can say is that when I joined the business, I didn’t know kind of what I was getting into. But I immediately found out that my father-in-law, who owns the dealership, and my brother-in-law, who runs Miracle Ford are good, straight up people honest, hardworking people that are running a good, solid, honest business. And it’s a pleasure, it’s a privilege to be able to work for that kind of, this type of company. And I can say that I’ve never had any second thoughts about being in this business. Other than maybe those nights where you kind of get home at 9:30 at night and you’re worn. John Haggard 24:23 Yeah, sure! Jim Odell 24:25 But no, it’s just a great, it’s a great good local business, run by people who care, who are honest, and are hardworking folks, and just trying to make a living like everybody else. And I think that kind of sums up reason why I’ve been here for so long, and why we have so many employees that have, you know, good tenure at the dealership because they realize that it’s a it’s a good, solid, honest place to work. And we take care of our employees. And you know, you take care of your employees, they take care of the customer, you probably heard that before. John Haggard 25:03 Very true. Very true. Jim Odell 25:04 Most people have, but it’s it honestly, is the truth. And I think, again, going back to what we talked about a little bit ago, of why our store versus a corporate store. It’s because we take care of our employees, and they take care of our customers. So that’s the advantage right there. John Haggard 25:22 All right, Jim. So what’s the best way for someone to get in touch with you? Jim Odell 25:27 Oh, you know, I’m on all the digital platforms these days. But the easiest way to get a hold of me is either an email address by my email address is just the kind of the generic it’s miracleford@gmail. You can call me on my cell phone, you can call the dealership and just ask for me and they’ll turn you over to me. So I’m accessible all the time. And even through our Facebook page, you can ask a question of me. And I’ll be happy to answer it personally for you. So yeah, I’m digital in every way. So all those ways you can get a hold of me. But if you want to just pick up the phone and call me, I can be assessed that way as well. John Haggard 26:09 And what’s the best number or numbers to get you? Jim Odell 26:12 Well, just the dealership number, the (615) 452 5267, my personal extension is 148. If I’m not at my desk, because oftentimes I’m not, you can just leave me a message but I do respond to those messages, usually within a pretty short amount of time. So that probably be the easiest way just to reach me. John Haggard 26:32 Alrighty, Thanks, Jim. Jim Odell everybody, the used car sales manager at Miracle Ford in Gallatin. Join us throughout the month right here and you’ll be able to learn the best ways to purchase, lease, service and maintain, also accessorize and, as you learn today, how to sell your vehicle for the highest resale value possible. When you’re ready to do it. Don’t forget the transcript. It’s right here so you can refer to anything for more information at your fingertips. I’m your host John Haggard, and we will see you next time.

Highlight: US troops quietly begin deployment to the western front | @01:15 British troops near mutiny - Mike Shuster | @06:55 Zeppelin L-49 captured intact - War in The Sky | @10:50 Announcing Ceremonial groundbreaking for America’s WWI Memorial in Washington DC -Facebook Live stream coming | @15:30 All about America’s WWI Memorial in DC - Edwin Fountain | @16:15 Junior Master Gardener Poppy Program update - Lisa Whittlesey | @24:10 Speaking WWI - the word is Nark! | @29:35 100C/100M project profile - Borough of Danville, PA - Jamie Shrawder | @31:00 International Caparetto, Kobarid and Karfreit - Commemoration | @36:10 First three American combat casualties - from 16th infantry | @37:35 The Franco-American links - US Centennial Commissioner Seifried | @39 :00 About Aline Kilmer’s poetry - Peter Molin on WWRITE blog | @39:35 Buzz on Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome and selection of the Unknown Soldier | @40:45 more...----more---- Opening Welcome to World War 1 centennial News - It’s about WW1 THEN - what was happening 100 years ago this week  - and it’s about WW1 NOW - news and updates about the centennial and the commemoration. Today is October 25th, 2017 and our guests this week are: Mike Shuster from the great war project blog,    Edwin Fountain, Vice Chair at the US WW1 Centennial Commission Lisa Whittlesey, Director of the International Junior Master Gardener Program And Jamie Shrawder, the Administrator of Governmental Affairs for the Borough of Danville, Pennsylvania WW1 Centennial News is brought to you by the U.S. World War I Centennial Commission and the Pritzker Military Museum and Library. I’m Theo Mayer - the Chief Technologist for the Commission and your host. Welcome to the show. [MUSIC] This was a big week 100 years ago in the War that changed the world. Looking back - --- America declares war 6 months ago and the first American troops arrive in Europe 4 months ago. This week 100 years ago, the Army’s 1st division quietly deploys to Sommervillier -  in france - a village near the western front almost directly between Belgium and Switzerland. We put a link in the podcast notes to some National Archive footage showing the the soldiers of the 1st division moving their horse drawn wagons, mechanised trucks, artillery and men to the fighting front. This is in the midst of a lots of controversy, conflicting agendas… opinions, and a very dire situation in the war “over there”. So let’s jump into our wayback machine to see what going on and how things play out 100 years ago this week. World War One THEN 100 Year Ago This Week [MUSIC TRANSITION] We are nearing the end of November 1917 and in the US, speculation is high about “Our Boys” getting into the fight. The official bulletin says NOTHING about this, the Wilson administration is being obscure, but the public press is sensing that something is up. [Sound Effect] Dateline: October 22, 1917 The headline in the New York Times reads: Hints Our Army is Near Action…. Secretary Baker’s guarded review is taken to mean that soldiers soon will be in the trenches. In the story it reads: In his review to press, Secretary of War Baker emphasized  the status of the Pershing expedition by giving it the most prominent position in his analysis of the military equation. He declares that “our men in France, after three months of intensive training, are in splendid physical condition and efficient fighting trim” and that they “Now feel at home in the war zone”. The Secretary had no comment to make on the statement, but the interpretation placed on his words, when carefully weighed here tonight, is that they mark the verge of the actual entrance of the American Troops into the fighting line.   Now Over in Europe, the situation is both complex and dire. We are going to zoom out for an overview of the situation. The troops on all sides are deeply war weary from the intense multi-year carnage of this unprecedented conflict. The Russians are effectively falling out of the fight with internal revolution and mass mutinies within their ranks. Everyone is clear that Russia is dropping out. This will free up a massive resources for the Germans for an expected major spring offensive.   Although the Americans have come to join the fight, and despite having been technically at war since April, the United States has just four infantry divisions in France. These are not seasoned troops. These are young civilians short on training, equipment, modern staff techniques and without combat experience. This raises a contentious concept called Amalgamation.   Amalgamation would have the United States insert its men directly into existing British and French units at the company level. This, argue the europeans, would compensate for the American officers and NCOs lack of familiarity with modern staff arrangements and technologies like aviation, armor, machine guns and heavy artillery. American troops would thereby be commanded at the tactical level by American junior officers, but the operational and strategic direction of American forces would be handled by more experienced Europeans. Though this sounds practical, many Americans including General Pershing look at the enormous casualty levels on the western front and recoil against the thought of our young men being used as cannon fodder by European generals. Pershing believes that the Europeans have become too tied to trench warfare. He has a different concept embodied  in his "open warfare" doctrine, which, he argues, will restore mobility to warfare by emphasizing American aggressiveness and marksmanship. Politically, Wilson and his advisors also recognized that amalgamation of American forces will not allow for a distinctive American presence on the western front. Wilson believes that he will need to be able to point to an American contribution to victory if he is to represent American interests in any post-war peace conference. Yet it is obvious that the Americans are not yet ready to fight on their own. Americans have virtually no experience in this new modern warfare. They need time to learn about it, trench warfare and modern tactics. They also need time to build relationships with their French and British allies and to overcome the crazy inefficiencies of their own mobilization.   There is great confidence that we can do it. The question is whether we can be trained, blooded, and effective in time to stop the German spring offensive. So on October 21, the first of the doughboys pack up, and General John J. Pershing leads the 1st Division to Sommervillier - a relatively quiet part of the western front to take the men of the American Expeditionary force to the fight 100 years ago this week!   We want to thank Michael s. Neiberg and Harold K. Johnson professors of Military history at the US Army War College for their great and insightful article on the subject. That link and other sources are in the podcast notes. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfeHCj7yQa4 http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9A0CE5D6103AE433A25750C2A9669D946696D6CF http://today-in-wwi.tumblr.com/post/166656659468/first-americans-enter-the-front-line http://today-in-wwi.tumblr.com/post/162357733133/first-american-division-arrives-in-france http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ww1/aef-wwi.htm [SOUND EFFECT] Great War Project From the Great War Project Blog - we are joined by Mike shuster, former NPR correspondent and curator for the Great War project. The endless carnage, devastating conditions and futile progress at Passchendaele is taking its toll on men and morale - especially with the British troops under a seemingly uncaring British commander - General Douglas Haig. Discontent  is boiling up in the ranks. Mike - please tell us the story…   [Mike Shuster]   Thank you Mike. That was Mike Shuster from the Great War Project blog. LINK: http://greatwarproject.org/2017/10/22/british-soldiers-threaten-mutiny/ War in the Sky This week in the great war in the sky we go to Bourbonne - les- bains - in France - interestingly not too far from Sommerviller where the 1st Division is heading. The Associated press has a reporter that gets to see a intact captured german Zeppelin. [Sound Effect] Dateline: Sunday October 21, 1917 The Headline in the NY times reads: “Americans Inspect Captive Zeppelin” “French also throng to see the great airship that was brought down intact! Germans Tried to wreck it… Prevented by victorious French Aviator who showed great pluck!”   In this illustrative story we learn many things about these giants of the sky what were sometimes referred to as Baby Killers or Pirates because of their bombing of civilian areas. The story reads: The crews of the Super-Zeppelins L49 and L50 have been interrogated and their replies confirm the supposition that they made up part of a single expedition against England. The Pirate fleet numbered twelve and left their stations separately. The prisoners say that when they reached the English coast, they were much bothered by anti-aircraft guns and even more by searchlights. L-50 quickly dropped its bombs and then rose to a height of three miles where they were caught by strong winds. Zeppelin L-49 came down near Bourbonne-Les-Bains---  intact, as were its machinery and its instruments. When the Zeppelin’s commander saw that it was impossible to save his ship, he destroyed the wireless apparatus and tried to explode the airship by firing his pistol into it. An opportunity was given to some American Officers to inspect the craft with French flying men. The whole body of the Zeppelin is painted black except the top, which is silvered. There is a small German Cross on each side amidships. The German airmen seemed surprised to see the Americans who had an opportunity to talk with some of them, and also with the Zeppelin commander, a slight blonde Lieutenant, speaking excellent english. A young French aviator told how he flew in pursuit of the Zeppelin to such an altitude that his cheeks froze and how he succeeded finally in forcing the craft down with his machine gun. When he saw they were about to land, he dived to earth. Other french aviators landed near. At the point of his pistol, the germans were prevented from damaging the craft further and were made prisoner. This is from an Associated Press report and a  newspaper article published in the New York Times - and it is a story that unfold in the great war in the sky one hundred years ago this week. The link to the original article in the New York Times is in the podcast notes. link:http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9A05E4D6103AE433A25750C2A9669D946696D6CF [SOUND EFFECT] The Great War Channel We are really happy that you listen to our podcast  - but If you’d like to watch some videos about WW1, we’d like to recommend that you see our friends at the Great War Channel on Youtube - New episodes for this week include:   Operation Albion Concludes - Allied Failures in Belgium Their second episode is a bit unique --  it is Interview is with rocker Pär Sundström from the hard metal band Sabaton who write and perform a lot of WWI themed songs. Here is a clip of the interview. The third video is called: German defense strategy and tactics at Passchendaele Follow the link in the podcast notes or search for “the great war” on youtube. Link: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheGreatWar World War One NOW [SOUND EFFECT] We have moved forward in time to the present… Welcome to WW1 Centennial News NOW  - This part of the program is not about history but how the centennial of the War that changed the world is being commemorated today. Commission News Interview with Edwin Fountain In Commission News we want to invite you to a very special live streaming event on November 9 at 11am Eastern. You’ll be able to tune in to Facebook live to watch the ceremonial groundbreaking for the National World War I Memorial at Pershing Park in Washington DC. It may surprise our listeners to learn that in Washington DC there is no national WWI memorial honoring our doughboys, their sacrifice and their victory in WWI. It’s true! There is a memorial for WWII, for Korea and for Vietnam but none for WWI. With is today is a man who has passionately been addressing this issue for the better part of a decade - maybe longer. He is also the Vice Chair of the World War One Centennial Commission - Edwin Fountain. Edwin welcome to WW1 Centennial News!   [Edwin  - Why is it important that we build a national WW1 Memorial in our nation’s capital.]   [Edwin -  tell us about America’s WWI Memorial in Pershing Park what is it going to be like?]   [We will post a link to that sculpture design in the podcast notes.]   [How can our listeners help build this memorial for our doughboys?]   Thank you Commissioner Edwin Fountain. That was Edwin Fountain - the vice-chair of the US World War One Centennial Commission. Education [Sound Effect] Junior Master Gardener Follow Up with Lisa Whittlesey In Episode #28, we introduced you to the Junior Master Gardener Program a 4H project. It’s an international youth gardening program that engages children in novel, “hands-on” learning experiences that provide a love of gardening, develop an appreciation for the environment, and cultivates not just the earth but young minds.   This Fall, the Junior Master Gardener program partnered with the US World War One Centennial Commission’s Poppy Seed Program to raise money for the program and America’s World War I Memorial in Washington DC. So as a reminder to our listeners, the WWI Poppy Program lets you Raise money for your organization, While helping us build the National WW1 Memorial in Washington DC.   The red poppy is an internationally recognized symbol of rememmbrance for veteran sacrifice.   It works like this...   for a donation of around 60 dollars, we send you a box of 60 Red Poppy seed packets in a kit. Your organization sells the poppy seed packets for $2 (or anything you want) and you keep the second dollar.   So you can raise money for your local veterans organization, school, church, scout troop or master junior gardener team - learn more about WWI and help us build the memorial in DC all at the same time -   With us to give us an update is Lisa Whittelsey,  Director of the International Junior Master Gardener Program. Hi Lisa - good to have you with us again!   [Say hello] [Lisa: how are our gardeners doing?]   [Lisa, what are some of the reasons the kids and their schools should get involved with the poppy program?]   [some of your kids really got into it  -- even making their own video commercials. Let me play a clip from a group of enterprising junior master gardeners from the lone star state of Texas!] [what are some of the stories you’ve heard about the program?]   [So flowers and poppy growing seems like a springtime activity - What happens now? Does the program go through the winter?]   Thank you Lisa! That was Lisa Whittlesey, Director of the International Junior Master Gardener Program. Learn more about the Program and the collaboration with the Commission by following the links in the podcast notes. Update/Reminder on how the poppy program works   link:http://ww1cc.org/poppy http://ww1cc.org/jmg http://jmgkids.us http://jmgkids.us/poppy/ http://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/communicate/press-media/wwi-centennial-news/3115-junior-master-gardener-program-works-to-honor-world-war-i-veterans.html [SOUND EFFECT] Speaking WW1 And now for our feature “Speaking World War 1 - Where we  explore today’s words & phrases that are rooted in the war  --- There were many things you didn’t want to be called in the trenches -- a coward, a deserter, a “client for Rouen”, aka a man with a venereal disease -- but one of the worst possible things to be called in the trenches was: a Nark! Really… So was there a drug culture in the trenches and informants to the military narcotics vice squad?? - well no - Contrary to popular belief, the word “nark” -- spelled n-a-r-k -- doesn’t come from the word “narcotics” at all. In fact, it’s origin comes from the word for nose, “Nak”, N-A-K in Romany, the language of the Romany or Gypsy people. It’s original use in pre-war England was in relation to people who stick their nose in other people’s business - informers, or perhaps because they sniffed out trouble!   During the war, the word was brought into the trenches and spread into the American and ANZAC vocabularies. It came to mean a soldier who would reveal other private’s secrets, usually in order to improve his own standing. Nark -- the last kind of soldier you want to be! And this weeks word for speaking World War One! See the podcast notes to learn more! link: https://www.amazon.com/Tommy-Doughboy-Fritz-Soldier-Slang/dp/1445637839/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508848013&sr=8-1&keywords=tommy+doughboy+fritz 100 Cities/100 Memorials [SOUND EFFECT Welcome to our 100 Cities / 100 Memorials segment about the $200,000 matching grant challenge to rescue and focus on our local WWI memorials. Last month, we announced the first 50 “WWI Centennial Memorials”. We’ll be awarding another 50 matching grants early next year. If you live in a town that has a WWI memorial that might want a little attention… now is the time to go to ww1cc.org/100memorials and learn what you can do about it, what others have done and how to apply for the matching grants. The 100 Cities / 100 Memorials project in Danville, Pennsylvania was one of the first 50 awardees - and here to tell us about the project is Jamie Shrawder, the Administrator of Governmental Affairs for the borough of Danville.   Welcome, Jamie! [exchange greetings]   [Jamie - Danville has a memorial park with several monuments - The four sided WWI monuments is really striking with an eagle atop a four sided granite base. When did it get erected?]   [How do you and how does Danville feel about being one of the awardees and your memorial getting designated as a WWI Centennial Memorial?]   [I saw in your proposal that you approached various veterans organizations to support the restoration - how did that work out?]   [Cleaning up one of these historic memorials isn’t done by grabbing a can of brasso and polishing up the brass (BTW - I just felt 1000 conservators cringe at once) - how do you go about it?]   [do you have plans for a rededication?]   [exchange thanks] That was Jamie Shrawder, the Administrator of Governmental Affairs for the Borough of Danville. We are going to continue to profile 100 Cities / 100 Memorials projects - not only awardees but also teams that are continuing on to round #2 which is now open for submissions. So listeners - this weekend - if you are in the United States - take a few minutes look around your town and find your local WWI memorial. There WILL be one.. And you’ve probably seen it but did not know what it was. You’ll find it near the county court house, in a municipal park, by the old high school building, at the American Legion or the VFW post, or in an area of your local cemetery. When you DO find it, and if it needs some TLC, please go to WW1CC.org/100Memorials and see how you can start the ball rolling to get that memorial and the doughboys it honors some help. You can follow the link in the podcast notes. Link: www.ww1cc.org/100memorials   [SOUND EFFECT] International Report Kobarid Museum: Commemorations in Slovenia In our International report this week, we head to Slovenia, to the Kobarid [ko-bah-reed] Museum located near the eastern border of Slovenia and Italy - There, from October 20th to November 11th-- historians, soldiers and citizens will gather for a series of events commemorating the Battle of Caporetto, also known as the Battle of Kobarid or the Battle of Karfreit. The Battle was so devastating for the combatant Italian forces that the word Caporetto gained a particular resonance in Italy. It is used to denote a terrible defeat – the failed General Strike of 1922 by the socialists was referred to by Mussolini as the "Caporetto of Italian Socialism". In 1917 - the Italians lost 305,000 men, 265,000 of those as prisoners of war. Though not as devastating, the German and Austro Hungarian lost 70,000 men in that battle. Commemorations at the Kobarid Museum include a new exhibition with the title "Kobarid, Caporetto, Karfreit 1917"; there will also be a ceremony along the Walk of Peace from the Alps to the Adriatic, lighting candles at the memorials and cemeteries on the way. Many more events are scheduled, including a cross country running event in the region that will join the former combatants as colleagues - You can find out more by heading to the Kobarid Museum’s website and the Walk of Peace website. Follow the link in the podcast notes to learn more. link:http://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/slovenia-official-commemoration-web-site.html https://www.kobariski-muzej.si/exhibitions/permanent/ http://www.potmiru.si/eng/ Articles and Posts 16th Division This week in our Articles and Posts segment - where we explore the World War One Centennial Commission’s rapidly growing website at ww1cc.org - This week we are profiling a great article about the 16th Infantry division -- and how its service in WW1 is being commemorated. On November 3rd 1917, Corporal James Gresham, and Privates Thomas Enright and Merle Hay, were killed in action during a German trench raid near the little village of Bathelémont (baa-tel-ay-mon) in France. These soldiers -- all members of F Company, 16th Infantry -- were the first three American combat casualties in World War I. The 16th Infantry Regiment Association will honor Gresham with the dedication of a plaque at his mother’s home in Evansville, Indiana, at 10:00 am, on November 3rd this year.   The article includes a conversation with the Association's President, Steven E. Clay, about about the 16th Infantry's soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice. You can read that discussion by following the link in the podcast notes. Link: http://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/communicate/press-media/wwi-centennial-news/3271-four-questions-for-steven-clay-president-of-the-16th-infantry-regiment-association.html   Commissioner Seefried Another article reflects on the rededication of the statues of General Pershing and the Marquis de Lafayette in Versailles that we reported over the past weeks . US WWI Centennial commissioner Monique Seefried attended the ceremony at Versailles. This week at ww1cc.org/news -- she talked to us from France about the event, the statues, and what they mean for the future of the French-American legacy. Read this insightful and touching piece from Commissioner Seefried that illuminates the very special link between our two nations by following the link in the podcast news.   Link:http://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/communicate/press-media/wwi-centennial-news/3270-four-questions-for-commissioner-monique-seefried.html WWrite Blog And now for an update on our WWRITE blog, which explores WWI’s Influence on contemporary writing and scholarship, this week's post is: "Are war wives - war poets, too? " Consider those women who write about the contortions on domestic life and feminine sensibility brought about by war... Author, veteran, and teacher, Peter Molin, explores the idea this week in a post about poet Aline Murray Kilmer, wife of well-known American WWI poet, Joyce Kilmer, who was killed during the Second Battle of the Marne in 1918. Aline's poetry conveys the urgency and nuance of a war wife's uncertainty as she finds her tranquility and self-worth vexingly dependent on her husband, even in his permanent absence. Don't miss this rich, insightful post about the often-overlooked and, yes, war poet, Aline Kilmer! Read it by going to ww1c.org/w-w-r-i-t-e or following the link in the podcast notes. link:http://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/articles-posts/3269-aline-kilmer-when-the-war-poet-s-wife-is-a-poet-too-by-peter-molin.html The Buzz - WW1 in Social Media Posts That brings us to the buzz - the centennial of WW1 this week in social media with Katherine Akey - Katherine - Hi Katherine!--   Hi Theo!   Old Rhinebeck Aerodome   We’ll start with a Facebook post from the Old Rhinebeck Aerodome. They had a WW1 Airshow on October 15th, the last for their season this year, and someone in attendance shared a bunch of really great photos from the event on Facebook. Pilots wore WW1 era uniforms, both Doughboy and German, and there was even an old Ambulance and stretcher bearers in case anyone got hurt. The afternoon included a hero, a heroine (Cheer!), the villainous Black Baron of Rhinebeck (Boo!), and pyrotechnics, as well as some really beautiful aircraft, including a Fokker Triplane and, my personal favorite, a reproduction 1910 Hanriot. See the photos, and visit the Aerodome website, at the links in the podcast notes. link:https://www.facebook.com/groups/oldrhinebeckaerodrome/permalink/1746902505342287/ http://oldrhinebeck.org/   Unknown Soldier Finally this week, I wanted to share an article from History.com that is yet another powerful story as we lead up to Veterans Day: the selection of the Unknown Soldier. On October 24th, 96 years had passed since the first Unknown Soldier was selected by a US Officer in the French town of Chalons-sur-Marne. According to the official records of the Army Graves Registration Service, four bodies were transported to Chalons from the cemeteries of Aisne-Marne, Somme, Meuse-Argonne and Saint-Mihiel. French and American officials then underwent the ceremony of selecting one of the four caskets displayed, each draped with an American flag. Sergeant Edward Younger, the man given the task of making the selection, carried white roses to mark the chosen casket. According to the official account, Younger “entered the chamber in which the bodies of the four Unknown Soldiers lay, circled the caskets three times, then silently placed the flowers on the third casket from the left. He faced the body, stood at attention and saluted.”   The “Unknown Soldier” remains in Arlington National Cemetery to this day, honored among and for the approximately 77,000 United States servicemen killed on the Western Front during World War I. And with that, we continue the countdown to veterans day. That’s it this week for the Buzz! link:https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/unknown-soldier-is-selected   Thank you Katherine. And that all our stories for you this week on WW1 Centennial News - Now before you flick off your play button - remember - for those of you who listen to end - we always leave you with a special goody or two! Closing   So in closing - we want to thank our guests: Mike Shuster and his report on discontent within the British Army Vice Chair Edwin Fountain, speaking with us about the National WW1 Memorial Lisa Whittlesey, updating us on the Junior Master Gardener Poppy Competition Jamie Shrawder, telling us the story of the Danville Pennsylvania 100 Cities 100 Memorials project Katherine Akey the Commission’s social media director and also the line producer for the show. And I am Theo Mayer - your host.   The US World War One Centennial Commission was created by Congress to honor, commemorate and educate about WW1. Our programs are to-- inspire a national conversation and awareness about WW1; This program is a part of that…. We are bringing the lessons of the 100 years ago into today's classrooms; We are helping to restore WW1 memorials in communities of all sizes across our country; and of course we are building America’s National WW1 Memorial in Washington DC.   We want to thank commission’s founding sponsor the Pritzker Military Museum and Library for their support. The podcast can be found on our website at ww1cc.org/cn   on  iTunes and google play ww1 Centennial News, and on Amazon Echo or other Alexa enabled devices. Just say: Alexa: Play W W One Centennial News Podcast. Our twitter and instagram handles are both @ww1cc and we are on facebook @ww1centennial. Thank you for joining us. And don’t forget to share the stories you are hearing here today with someone about the war that changed the world! [music]   Hey man… get your nose outta my business dude - you nark! So long!

The five minute Quickie Podcast - In knowledge there's power - Really? So having all this knowledge is a way to have some power in your life, yes? maybe well - No You can have a whole lot of knowledge or learnings but without the magic step it can be quite useless, especially in this world of your  personal development and creating the life you want for yourself. This short podcast is aimed at me to get me doing stuff, taking a big bit of action and I'm guessing if you listen you may find it's also aimed at you too :0) Shine brightly and please do share with your friends there's a email subscription at the side here or better still subscribe through iTunes by hitting the iTunes logo over there -> catch me or find me on twitter @pcloughie   Paul  

It's not every day an undocumented person gets to sit in the chamber of power and listen to the president. But that's what happened to Angie Kim. Emil Guillermo talks with Kim, a community organizing fellow at the Minkwon Center for Community Action in Flushing, Queens, NY. Brought to the U.S. at age name by her parents from South Korea, Kim qualified for President Obama’s Deferred Action for Childhood arrivals program (DACA), in 2012. It gave her the right to get a work permit and stay in the U.S. Now 32, her future is in jeopardy, as President Trump has yet to say what will happen with DACA recipients. In recent days, some DACA recipients have been apprehended by ICE  under new broad guidelines. Kim, invited to the speech by Congresswoman Grace Meng, didn't get a shout out like the widow or Ryan Owens. Kim shares her thoughts on the politics of the night and how she uses her activism to deal with the fear she faces as the only undocumented person in her family Emil Guillermo write for the Asian American Legal Defense and Education Fund blog. He is an award-winning journalist who was once an NPR host, newspaper columnist, and TV reporter.  See his work at www.aaldef.org/blog Or at www.amok.com www.twitter.com/emilamok   Emil Amok on the Speech. amok.com March 1, 2017 It wasn’t exactly a State of the Union, more like a Trump state of mind. But that means the best thing you could say about Trump45’s address before Congress is this: At least the TelePrompTer didn’t break. If it did, who knows what we would have seen on speech night. “Campaign Trump”? Or “Twitter Trump”? That’s the Trump who has been the real enemy of the people. But this speech was slightly more tempered. Milder. And he didn’t veer off wildly. The president showed us all— he could read! Sad. And just for doing that, 78 percent of viewers in a CNN/ORC poll gave Trump positive marks. Now that’s something Trump understands. Ratings. Governing, however, has been a mystery. But now Trump will learn from experience that if you give a political speech that’s long on promises on things like jobs, education, infrastructure, and Obamacare, without a stitch of detail on how to keep those promises, let alone pay for them, ratings can go up. And maybe he’ll start acting normal? That’s something both to welcome and to fear. Welcome because he’s not 100 percent in your face. Fear, because he’s figured out how the game works. And that of course, makes Trump more dangerous than ever. There were two things specifically I was looking for in the speech,  that  left  me pretty disappointed. Though Trump began the speech talking about Black History Month and civil rights, he really could have condemned the threats to the Jewish Community Centers and the vandalism of Jewish cemeteries much stronger than he did. And he could have dwelled on the shootings of Indian Americans in Olathe, near Kansas City. One man, Srinivas Kuchibhotla died. Another Indian American was wounded. A Caucasian man, Ian Grillot,24, was wounded trying to disarm the shooter, another Caucasian male, Adam Purinton, 51, who  started it all by hurling racial slurs at the Indians. These are the kind of things Trump45 has brought out in America since the start of his presidency. We should have seen a passionate denunciation of these acts. Instead,  rump simply read the prompter then bathed in the shower of self-congratulatory applause. It was as if just by being gracious makes him a hero. But what did Trump do since he’s taken over? With his anti-immigrant, build-a-wall, nationalistic rhetoric, he has given a segment of America a signal that hate is OK in America. The O-KKK. Trump’s victory unleashed all that on America. But the president acknowledged it with just a single line:  “While we may be a nation divided on policies, we are a country that stands united in condemning hate and evil in all its forms.” It didn’t seem sincere. Not after the first 40 days. It seemed hollow. He didn’t even mention the Asian Americans by nationality or name. It was just a shooting in Kansas City. Not good enough. Of course, later in his speech, Trump milked another sentimental moment to honor Navy Senior Chief William “Ryan” Owens, who died in Yemen during a raid last January. The military is always a safe bet. So honor a Gold Star family, and deplete the domestic budget in favor billions for the military. But for the Jews, or for the murdered Indian immigrant? Trump gave them short-shrift. It’s the reason Trump’s big pre-speech “leak” that he would be calling for a bi-partisan immigration reform seemed just like an insincere  tease. After the travel ban fiasco, and the new ICE policies that have resulted in round ups of undocumented immigrants around the country, a real push for a compromise on immigration would have been a great headline. But there was “no there, there.” Not when Trump’s speech contained more talk of a border wall, references to “illegal immigrants,” and borders as “lawless chaos.” And then, as he is likes to do, Trump mixes border security with national security and all that entails, and creates for us all one big fear: “Radical Islamic Terrorism.” And he used that exact counter-productive term, once again, despite advice to refrain. By the time he got around to his pitch for a bi-partisan immigration  “compromise,” Trump had no credibility with minority communities and those close to the immigrants who are living in fear. Immigration has always been humanitarian based for political or economic reasons for the immigrant. The benefit to the U.S. has always been the extra. Trump’s idea is for a merit-based immigration. He wants to cherry-pick the best, because the best will make money for Trump, the U.S., and that’s all he really cares about. Once again, he could have made a better case had he mentioned the Indian man who died in Olathe, that suburb of Kansas City. His name was Srinivas Kuchibhotla. He was a tech worker at Garmin, the gps company. He was one of the immigrants Trump likes. But not enough to mention in a major speech. There were other glaring things Trump said. Like calling education the “civil rights issue of our time.” Really? So is that why Betsy DeVos–the voucher queen hell bent on destroying public education–the new secretary of education? And what about that travel ban? After the  speech, Trump cancelled again the announcement for the new executive order that was to supercede the one held up by the court in Washington state. Reports had it that Iraq would come off. Would other countries be added? I worry for the  Philippines. This is the week the militant group Abu Sayyaf, home based in the Philippines, revealed a video showing the beheading of a 70-year-old German hostage. Trump didn’t mention it at all. But it was in the subtext when Trump said, “We cannot allow a beachhead of terrorism to form inside America—we cannot allow our Nation to become a sanctuary for extremists.” Stated or unstated, you knew that the beheading in the Philippines,  reported in the New York Times on speech day, could potentially be more fuel for Trump’s xenophobic fire. And this was a toned down speech. So if you hear people praise Trump about this speech and the polls giving him good marks for his performance,  don’t be fooled. All he did was stick to the TelePrompTer. And act presidential. Remember, he’s all showbiz. It’s still the same old Trump.  

Robert Shiller (as in Case-Shiller Index) was reported by CNBC to say that he thinks stocks are a better investment than real estate over the long haul. Really? So in this episode we dig into the argument about which is better...stocks or real estate? Some might say we're shills for real estate, but we'll find out who's the bigger shiller here... We debate.  You decide.  Then we can all go have a pint.   The Real Estate Guys™ radio show provides real estate investing news, education, training and resources to help real estate investors succeed.  Learn more and subscribe to the free newsletter! Visit www.realestateguysradio.com.