Podcasts about i googled

A watch is a great first option for keeping in touch with your kids, but is the watch you gave them a portal to access pornography? Listen in to learn more!    Download my free Parenting in the Digital Age Resource guide! CLICK HERE or go to this link: https://www.dollydenson.com/digitalresources and be sure to opt in to my email list to be the first to know when my Be THAT Mom Movement Method course, your toolkit and roadmap for all things digital when raising kids today, is released!!    FREE DOWNLOAD: Tips for using Bark + Digital Resources FREE DOWNLOAD: Digital Resources For all my top tips & tools go to https://www.dollydenson.com/store DIGITAL RESOURCE TOOLS:   Grab your Troomi phone today! Click here or use code BETHATMOM at https://troomi.com/ to grab $30 off your kid's Troomi phone!  BARK subscription CLICK HERE (Use code BETHATMOM for 20% off & 7 day free trial) MSpy CLICK HERE (Use code BTMOM10 for a 10% discount on the 3 month package!) Pinwheel phone CLICK HERE (use code BETHATMOMTEN for a discount!) Gabb phone CLICK HERE (use code BETHATMOM for a discount) Tick Talk Watch CLICK HERE (use code BETHATMOM for a discount) Covenant Eyes CLICK HERE (use code BETHATMOM for a discount) Gryphon Router CLICK HERE  Circle Plus CLICK HERE (click link for $20 off) Bark Home CLICK here!! Stay connected with the Be THAT Mom Movement via our channel in the Telegram app: Subscribe HERE or search for @bethatmom on the app. Or on social media via instagram https://www.instagram.com/the_bethatmommovement  MOM WELLNESS TOOLS: Fit Club info: Being THAT mom isn't easy, so prioritizing our own wellness is so important! Get tips and tools plus support to help you simplify and align your health/wellness through fitness & nutrition tools that will get you results and to be strong and energetic for your kids! For more info on these tools & the Align Your Life Fit Club, CLICK HERE!!  Have a fitness routine that works for you but need to level up your nutrition? Ensure you get your daily nutrition with the powerful and unmatched smoothie called Shakeology CLICK HERE to learn more. (Available by itself or combined with what I like to call the Netflix for fitness/wellness library. CLICK HERE for the top options that save you $$$ when getting started with ALL the tools to get you that crucial momentum to make this a routine that sticks!) Other supplements I highly recommend  (for informational purposes only, not medical advice, consult with your healthcare provider for questions and to get recommendations specific to your health conditions) Concerned for toxin/mold/parasite exposure & how to support your immune system in today's world? Consider a functional blood chemistry consult with me in my newly launched virtual practice at Align Your Life Wellness LLC. Together we will review your labs for patterns of stress and overall function, and then create a roadmap to follow to help you on a path to health and wellness. (These consults will not diagnose or treat, but will help you to identify where you might have imbalances that can be the precursor to dis-ease and health issues down the road.) Package options: https://www.bit.ly/alignoptions Paleovalley CLICK HERE (use code PVFRIEND15 for a discount) My Soul CBD CLICK HERE (use code BETHATMOM for a discount) MitoLife supplements CLICK HERE (use code BETHATMOM for a discount) Magnesium Bicarbonate supplement by LIVE PRISTINE (the majority are deficient in magnesium AND if taking Magnesium, are taking a form other than this that is not bioavailable and readily absorbed!) Use code BETHATOM for a discount! CLICK HERE  MOM HUSTLE TOOLS: Kajabi: The best platform to run your business with all the things in one place! CLICK HERE Podcast Pro University CLICK HERE to learn more about the top podcast course, created by Stef Gass, that will help you take that idea and passion to the next level with a podcast of your own! Health/Wellness Coach opportunity!! Focus on your own wellness through fitness/nutrition while inviting a few friends to join you and/or build your own brand as a wellness coach with Team Beachbody: Email me at dolly@dollydenson.com for more info! Full Transcription:  Speaker 1 (00:00): Giving a watch is oftentimes a great first step for getting your kid connected somehow when they're away from you, but are you giving your kid a watch that has a window into things that you don't realize they can access, stay tuned. Speaker 2 (00:19): Welcome to your source for tips, tools, and support to help you be that mom that is tuned in and proactive for yourself, your family, and for the wild ride of raising kids in this digital age, inspired by a mother's love with a relatable real life. Proud to be that mom flare. This is the be that mom movement with your host, Dolly Denson. Speaker 1 (00:45): Holy moly. Check this out. If you are a mom that is looking to give your kiddo a phone, but you don't want to open up the world of the smartphone to them yet, check out the pinwheel phone. The pinwheel phone is the latest and greatest four dumb smartphones. It gives you absolute control over what they do and who they can contact and will help them to develop healthy habits around using a phone, check out pinwheel, pinwheel.com use code be that mom 10 for a discount. So welcome back to the be that mom movement podcast. I'm so glad that you are here. Today's episode is gonna have some information that I really, really want you to hear. And if this does not apply to you, please share it with parents that may be in this situation because it actually really surprised me when I discovered it. Speaker 1 (01:35): And I just knew I had to make an episode today and get this out there to you as quickly as I could. So before I go into the content for today, just wanna say in full transparency that I am sitting in a hotel room right now, I honestly have a love, hate relationship with air conditioning units in hotel rooms. I'm usually too cold or too hot. And for this hotel stay I'm by myself. But if my husband was here, it would be even worse, cuz he likes it to be cold. And you know, at home I can't keep it cold because it, our electricity bill would be through the roof if we kept the house too cold. So when we're in a hotel room, he likes to keep it colder, but I've turned off the AC and ho I'm not gonna have any other background noise, but sometimes there is a loud car that drives by that you can hear outside. Speaker 1 (02:23): So if there is any background noise that you hear apologize for that, but this content is something that I wanted to get out to you. I am flying home tomorrow. And so I figured if I didn't record this today, it will probably be at least a couple of days before I get it recorded. And this information is something that every parent needs to know about. So what I wanna talk about is being able to access pornography through a smart watch. And the one that I tested because the one that I have is an apple watch and it was mind blowing when I saw that I could pull it up so very easily. I did not know that the apple watch had that capability. And if you're like me, not real tech savvy. So that's why giving kids the things is sometimes major challenging for parents like me and maybe you, because they are tech savvy and they are growing up with this capability. Speaker 1 (03:22): And so they are able to navigate this very quickly. And then the other thing is that when I saw a post about this and I was like, okay, I gotta figure out if I can really do this on my apple watch, I Googled it. And of course there's a website out there that tells you exactly how to get an internet connection on your apple watch and pull up a webpage. So it took me all of two seconds to do that. And then I followed those instructions. And before you know it, I was accessing pornography on my apple watch. Unbelievable. So the reason I bring this up is because this is something I recommend in might be that mom movement method toolkit that I'm getting ready to publish as an a very good first step is to start with a watch or a now I can't forget what they call, but they're like a little walkie talkie type device as a first step to stay connected with your kiddo when they are going to be away from you and not having to give them a phone that opens them up to all of the digital things and so many more struggles or like tugs of war with them in terms of how addictive the phones are and how much they can suck you in. Speaker 1 (04:33): You know, of course, giving a gab phone, a pinwheel phone, those type of things, and putting bark is certainly a good option as well. But if you have a younger kid that you're wanting to have a way to stay connected with them, a watch is a great, great option. And I see parents mention often that they're just gonna go ahead and give them an apple watch or, you know, give them one of the smart watches because it just makes more sense. They don't wanna do these other ones. Maybe the watches are a little bit too childlike looking for their kid or something like that. Well, this is a reason why I recommend that you definitely check out the watches that are available through those different options. And I'll go over those again in just a minute, but just to kind of hit this, the importance of this, they say that pornography is usually one or two clicks away for any child that is online. Speaker 1 (05:26): So regardless of what your feelings are about pornography studies have shown that kids exposed to it at younger ages, or just exposed to it in general, in the teen years that it can have an effect on them and the younger they are, the more of an effect it can have and also just creates a unrealistic idea of what sex is so highly recommend that you have some sort of layer or plan or filter something that limits what sites they're allowed to go to if they are allowed to go online by themselves, because it is a slippery slope and it's kind of a black hole. And if you have ever raised kids, through the middle school years, especially boys, one of them will hear about it. And before you know it, they're sending the link to everybody and before you know, it they're all looking at it. Speaker 1 (06:24): They're all curious and curious, killed the cat when it comes to a child that is growing up, you know, and learning like curiosity is completely normal for them, but with the digital things that their fingertips so readily, it can be so dangerous. And so what do I wanna say, like impairing on their development, stunting their mental development and possibly causing trauma by the things that they see. So what I found out today is that you can send a link to your watch by sending a text with the link to yourself, or having someone else send it to you or sending yourself an email with the link. So if you try to do this, you know, pull up, I didn't know any porn site except for I heard of porn hub. So I sent that to myself in a text and pulled that up immediately on my watch. Speaker 1 (07:23): I couldn't figure out how to do it from my watch. It had to be sent to my watch. And I tried to look for like a internet app, those type of things. And there isn't one that I could find. And according to the, the website that I found that had instructions on how to do this, there isn't an app for internet connection, but if you send a link, it opens up a hidden safari page. And then with that, it will open up whatever website it is that has been sent to you. So very, very important information to know if you have a kiddo that has a smart watch, I'm assuming the other smart watches out there are similar. Now the article or the social media posts that I saw about this, I forget what company was posting about it, but they said that they talked to apple. Speaker 1 (08:14): They called them and just acted as a curious parent. And they said that you can set up some type of firewall type thing in the screen time, parental controls. But when they tried to do it, they couldn't figure out how to block it that way. So it's possible that there's a way to block it or filter it through the parental controls also might be possible to put bark. You know, if you have bark on their phone, that might be able to monitor like them sending the text bark might pick up on the text and let you know that they sent this text that had porn in the link or something to that effect. So those are two things that could pick it up. If you're in the situation where you already have given them a smart watch, but I'm not one to say that, pull it all away and , you know, shut the world down and all of that, unless you're in an extreme situation and you need to regroup, you need to detox. Speaker 1 (09:14): There is a place for that. I did that with my own child and it was the best thing we did at the time, but it wasn't before we tried multiple things of communication talking, trying to, you know, kind of reroute things. And when we realized that wasn't working and things were really, really going south very quickly in that we were on the brink of a crossroads, that we weren't gonna be able to come back from easily involving much more than anything like pornography. We did pull back. We did cut off completely from all digital things and made very extreme actions in order to regroup detox, figure out what in the world was going on. But I don't think that that's necessarily always what you need to do. So I wouldn't panic yank the watch away and, you know, go run in whatever, but, you know, use your own judgment, your kid's personality and their temperament and all of that. Speaker 1 (10:10): But this is just knowledge for you to know of and for you to figure out how to move forward with us. But if you have not given a watch or if, you know, young moms that maybe in this situation soon where they're wanting to give a watch, I do wanna tell you that the watches that I know of that get the best reviews is the gab watch. And you can go to G wireless.com or use the link in my show notes. And there is a discount code. My discount codes be that mom, and that will give you a discount on that G watch. And then I don't see that pinwheel has a watch. I was looking, but it looks like the only thing they have right now is the phone. Now the tick talk watch. So T I C K T a L K, is the watch that I hear about as the one that most moms love. Speaker 1 (11:06): The, the one that most rave about is the tick talk watch for younger kids. And it comes like in a little case. So it's protected in all of that, but those are the ones that I would recommend. And I do have a discount code for the TikTok watch as well. I do recommend checking those out and starting with one of those. If you're going to do the watch route versus giving the smart watch in having the slippery slope of so many little caveats that you may not be able to monitor certainly is something that I think bar would probably potentially catch, but probably can't guarantee it. And that tends to be the case with apple, with most things. So that's why they say that apple or iPhones, aren't the best first phone for kids because they're not as easily monitored. I did give my kids an apple phone to start. Speaker 1 (12:01): And if I did it over again, my attitude at that time was, well, we have apple phones. It'll just be easier for us to all have apple phones. If I had it to do over again, I probably would start with an Android phone. One that I could monitor more and have very strict rules, all the things that I'm gonna share and might be that mom movement, method toolkit, and course so definitely recommend you check those things out and pass that along to young moms that may be approaching this as well as access it for yourself. If you are needing more guidance with this and resources and all the things to pivot and all of that because I know there is oftentimes a lot of pivots and it's different for each kiddo since I've raised three and each one was completely different on this path. Speaker 1 (12:44): So check out those options for watches, if you're in need of that. And definitely if you are in the place of already having, given a smart watch, explore this and see what, you know, the capabilities are on the watch that they have and keep the lines of communication open with your kiddo. And, you know, just decide what you think is best for you and your kid going forward. But I did wanna get this out to you because I could not believe it. I was sitting I'm in Boise, Idaho and was attending a conference. And as the conference was ending today and I was putting my stuff away, I was like, okay, I'm gonna go back to hotel room and record this podcast. And I sat down and tried to figure out how to send it, sent it. And so I am sitting there in the middle of the conference with pornography, playing on my smart watch. Speaker 1 (13:36): Not that it had any sound, but I just could not believe what I was seeing. And it wasn't even just like anything mild, like the website pulled up and there's, I just scrolled. And there's all these people having sex all up and down as I scrolled. So yeah. Crazy stuff, definitely something I wanted you to know about. So please reach out to me. If you have any questions, please check out my show notes for all my links and all the discount codes that I have and keep your eye out for my course, that's coming out soon. That's gonna be your toolkit, your roadmap, a place for you to start and a place for you to pivot and figure out what to do next on your path to being that mom. All right. Have a great day. Thank you for tuning in Hey friends, did you hear there is an app that will transform the safety of your kids' smartphone and technology use. Speaker 1 (14:25): It is my favorite way to sleep easy at night and have peace of mind because it is monitoring my kids' activity online without me being in their business. It is the bark app and yes, bark like a dog bark bark bark. It tells you when there's something that you need to be concerned about starting at a small fee each month, you can protect your whole family across all devices. Get connected with bark today. Use code, be that mom for 20% off your subscription for life and get a seven day free trial to check it out. Speaker 2 (14:57): Thanks for tuning in being that mom isn't easy, but together we can be that mom strong. Don't forget to leave a review connect on social join. Dolly's free community till next time. Speaker 1 (15:11): Hey there, before you go, I want to just give you a heads up on something. When things have been hardest in my role as a mom, the thing that was so very helpful for me was having a routine to take care of myself each day. I know that this whole thing around raising kids in a digital world is so very overwhelming. But if you have a place where you are taking care of yourself every single day with a simple routine that works despite where you are or what your schedule is, you will be able to be more present for your family and handle all of the ups and downs of this most amazing role that we could ever play in this world. So connect with me and let's get you connected to fitness and nutrition tools made by experts that will help you simplify this and then connect you with my fit club community that will support you, guide you and give you momentum and motivation to show up every day. Take care of yourself first so that you could be better present for our digital native kids.

This week Tara and Marah discuss none other than the late great Darrell Abbot better known as Dimebag Darrel on what would be the week of his birthday. A young star accomplishing amazing things and blazing trails for musicians of the future whose life was tragically cut short by a deranged angy "fan" of the band Pantera. They also discuss their interesting Google moments of the week with I Googled that shit. Thanks for listening and rock on till next week.

This week on the podcast, Randall sits down with Kathryn Taylor, co-host of the Girls Gone Gravel Podcast and Chief of Staff at Feisty Media. Looking at inclusion in the sport of gravel cycling and how Feisty Media is looking to build a brand centered around helping active, performance-minded women find the resources they need to do the things they love.  Episode Sponsor: Bike Index, a free, non-profit bicycle registry and stolen bike recovery platform.  Girls Gone Gravel Podcast Fiesty Media Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Girls Gone Gravel [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast, my co-host Randall Jacobs is gonna take the reins. Randall did an interview with Catherine Taylor of feisty media and a co-host of the girls gone gravel podcast, Catherine. And the team at feisty media are helping active performance minded women find the resources they need to do the things they love. Many of you may be familiar with Catherine's work with Christie Mon on the girls gone gravel podcast. Christie is also a former guest of this podcast, and you can refer to that episode. We did about the big sugar gravel event. If you scroll back a little while in your feed, before we jump into the conversation I wanted to thank this week's sponsor bike index bike index is a nonprofit bicycle registry and stolen bike recovery platform. In fact, take a moment, hit pause, and go register your bike. It takes five to 10 minutes. The hardest part is locating your serial number, but once it's in the system, it's a free resource. Bike index has no business talking to you. They're hoping to just sit there in the background as a utility, but God forbid your bike goes missing and gets stolen. Bike indexes. One of the only resources you're gonna find online to help coordinate the efforts of recovering your bicycle. They're a nonprofit. Everything they do. Any donation you make is tax deductible. Registration is free, so you really don't have any excuse other than time to register your bikes. Go on, hit up bike index.org and get your bike registered with that said, let's jump on over to Randall's conversation with Katherine. [00:02:05] Randall: Katherine, thank you for coming on the gravel ride podcast. It's great to have this conversation. It seems like we have a lot of alignment in terms of the types of community building projects that we're most interested in and obviously our shared love of this particular sport. So, would just love to start with what's. What's your background with the sport? How did you end up doing a podcast called girls gone gravel . [00:02:26] Kathryn: Well, it's funny. I'm as many of the guests that we've actually had in our podcast, I've learned there's a lot of burnt out triathletes that end up in gravel. And that was definitely me. So I was really involved in triathlon for about 10 years. I raced coached. I even worked at a triathlon store. That was one of the top triathlon online retailers in the company. And I got really burned out from it because it's all about checking your power and your wants and. A lot of training all the time. And a friend of mine that was in the tri club was doing this race at the time called dirty cancer. And sh because she had heard this woman named Alison Terick on a podcast and she had never rid her bike more than 20 miles, but she signed up for the 200 mile event and was training through the company that I coached with. So I wasn't her coach, but one of my coworkers was her coach. And so I just heard all about this journey to this crazy gravel. Race. And I was like, oh, this sounds kind of fun. I think I'm gonna get a gravel bike instead of a traveling bike. And so I got a gravel bike and I would go out, she would go be doing like five laps of this local 20 mile loop. And I would go out and do one lap with her and just started to love it and love the adventure. And then started hosting some rides on the weekends for local community women. And Got into that. And then it's actually a funny story. So I was working at a bike shop at the time. And when I bought the bike, the bike shop owner was like, well, I don't think you're gonna like gravel because it's hard. And that made me really mad yeah. [00:04:00] Randall: oh [00:04:01] Kathryn: yeah. And so I had way too much wine one night and I woke up at two in the morning and I was like, I'm gonna start an Instagram account. It was when Instagram was. Starting to grow. And I was like, girl's gonna gravel, that's it. So I got the handle at two in the morning and I just started sharing like community pictures and it grew. And that ended up eventually turning into a podcast and now has become a whole brand where we have events. We have a little team, we, you know, go do cover, live events. We're done a few other things in the future, so yeah, that's, that's how it got started. [00:04:34] Randall: And I'm curious, where were you living at the time and what timeframe are we talking here? [00:04:38] Kathryn: So it was 2019. It wasn't that long ago. And I was living in Atlanta, Georgia. So, and, and there's not a ton of gravel around Atlanta. You really have to drive. So it was really in the Southeast the gravel scene. Was much behind kind of the Midwest Northwest, Northeast gravel. It was really just starting to come onto the scene. And the, and people didn't know about things like, you know, Unbound or, or any of those things at the time. My friend Lauren was the first person that any of us ever knew that had gone and done, you know, at the time it was dirty Kansas. So, so yeah. That's, that's where I was living. [00:05:15] Randall: One of the obvious questions that, that, you know, came up to me prior to us recording today was, you know, what was your inspiration? And I kind of feel like I got a little bit of a taste of it when you're talking about that bike shop person. I think that the industry has catered to a particular audience that mostly looks like me, frankly for a very long time. And there is a dire need for more accessible on ramps to other people who wanna participate. And it seems like you, you feel a niche And half the population. It's not really a niche I'd love to hear more about that inspiration and how you've gone about it. [00:05:49] Kathryn: Yeah. So I had been a part of Atlanta tri club, which is the. Probably the third largest triathlon club in the country. And I was one of the coaches for Atlanta tri club. I also was on the regional board for USA triathlon. And we were doing a lot of initiatives in the women's space at the time. And so I, I started to see, there were a few things, if you could do, you could really increase women's participation in the sport. And I had a, a good friend that we were doing. A lot of these things kind of side by side in that. And she, she actually passed away very unexpectedly in 2019 and. [00:06:27] Randall: to hear that. [00:06:29] Kathryn: Thank you. It was yeah, she, it was a, a brain aneurysm. So just out of the blue and I kind of looked back at her legacy and I was. I wanna continue this, but the triathlon space, isn't where I feel the passion anymore. At the same, I was starting to get into gravel. And at the same time I had another friend that was an ultra endurance cyclist. Her name is Danny Gable, and she's done all these crazy ultra endurance adventures. And I started hearing her stories about cycling and how male dominated it was and started looking into it. And I was like, oh, I think there are some things that we could do. That will really bring women to the forefront that are really simple things like telling women stories, giving women a place to connect with each other giving them a space and, and everything just happened to come together right around the time of the pandemic. That's when Christ and I started the podcast and we started a private Facebook group. The, I was like, oh, a couple hundred people. And within, I don't know, two months, it was like 5,000 people. And we were doing, you know, all kinds of webinars and stuff. Over the summer, cuz everybody was stuck at home. Laura King actually had connected with me and she said, Hey, we were gonna do this, this camp or this weekend with rooted, but we can't do it because of the pandemic. But do you wanna do it like just a virtual DIY gravel? Summer thing. And so we did like every Friday we would do a webinar where women could come on and learn for free. And, and so it just, everything started to come together and the community really naturally formed. And it it's really cool because now I go to races and people will say, oh, I heard the podcast. Or I followed your stuff or I'm in the Facebook group. And that's the reason I decided to come do this event or, you know, This inspired me or so. And so story inspired me. So, I think I started rambling, but that's kind of my, my very long answer to your question. It was really [00:08:18] Randall: is entirely the point. [00:08:20] Kathryn: Yeah, but, but I it's been driven by what the community wanted all along. You know, so. [00:08:25] Randall: Well, and I was sharing before we started recording that I actually heard about you and your work from one of our listeners who, who came up to me at rooted Vermont, her name escapes me is actually two women. So if you're listening please drop me a note and remind me your name and just thank you for the introduction. And I asked them, who should we be bringing onto the podcast to talk about community and to elevate their work. And you were the first person that they mentioned. So, there's clearly a deep resonance with what you do. So you have a background having worked in shops, you've been a pretty serious triathlete. You had your own journey into the sport. I'm curious to unpack that a bit. What was it like when you were first getting into cycling or endurance athletics generally? How far back does that go? And what aspects of that experience do you think were different as a consequence of being a woman versus a man coming into it . [00:09:16] Kathryn: Yeah. I actually got into triathlon when I moved to Atlanta. So it was like 2010, I think, 2009, 2010, somewhere right around there. And had lived a lot of places. I had moved there. I was living with my parents and I'd always wanted to do a triathlon. I was a swimmer growing up. I was a really bad runner, but I'd never, like, I'd only ridden my Walmart bike around town. I'd never ridden like a real bike. And so I Googled triathlon. Atlanta and team and training was actually having a info session for their summer training program. So the options were like, sit at home with my parents and watch wheel of fortune, or go meet a bunch of strangers and maybe raise money to do an event. So I ended up signing up for team and training and, and that experience really informed everything I did from then on out. The, the team in training chapter in, in Georgia is, is one of the strongest team in training chapters. At that time was one of the strongest team in training chapters in the country. And they were just so great at bringing people in and teaching them everything from, you know, how do you ride a bike? How do you prepare for a race and, and creating a community around it? And I didn't know anything, like I showed up at my first ride with my mom's bike. That was Just a, like a towny bike and Umbro shorts and a t-shirt everybody was there, there, you know, try bikes and their kits and stuff, but people had just made me feel so welcome. And so part of it, even though I felt like I don't belong here at that moment. And then took me through every piece of it from. Falling over in the parking lot, three times is the first time I tried to clip in and, you know, a woman stayed with me and rode with me that whole day to teaching me, you know, everything about the bike. And then on the contrary, I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna go to this group ride, which would be primarily guys and primarily a race instead of a group ride, like the Tuesday night race, but they didn't communicate that. And so I remember one time I was up I. Dog sitting with my parents or something. And so I was at their house, which is in the north side of Atlanta. And it's really hilly. It's kind of, you're starting to get up into the Appalachians. I went on this ride and I didn't have like a Q sheet. They didn't give them out. They didn't communicate. They didn't say hello at the ride. I was like, okay, well I can hang. I'm a travel now. And I got so lost. Didn't know where I was. Didn't have anybody to call to get back. Finally, like somebody came by and pointed me the way back to town. And I thought if that were my experience, like the first time I showed up at a group ride, I would've never, I would've walked away from the bike. I. Forever. And and I've heard that experience from so many women of just having horrific experiences. The first time they walk into a group ride or a bike shop. And so I just want women to feel confident and be excited about, you know, that, and, and so, because I had such a great experience with team and training and saw the difference, it just it informed the way I wanted to contribute to the community. [00:12:23] Randall: That's great. And I have a confession. I was absolutely one of those men who treated every group ride like a race. I came into the sport, very hard charging and just wanted to compete and go hard and crush it and go into the pain cave and all the things that are associated with that very aggressive more ego driven aspects of the sport that make it so inaccessible. And, it's in recent years that I've come full circle and seen the opportunity to not just take what I've learned and to help bring someone in but also the huge benefit that I get personally from just slowing it down and taking the time to connect and facilitating. So I'm curious, how do you define your community? You have your podcast listeners, you have your Facebook group. What is the extent of the community? How do people interact with you now? How many people are in involved ? What's the structure of it? [00:13:12] Kathryn: Yeah. That's well, just real quick before we move on from like the group ride. Cause I do want like, it's okay. If you have a really hard, fast charging group ride, right. Like I think that is totally fine. And it's appropriate for some people. It's the communication and helping people understand and even saying, like being able to say. this isn't for you. If somebody shows up that's not ready or like I'm willing to sacrifice my night for you. So like, I don't wanna get rid of the group rides that people love to go out and smash themselves on. I just wanna make sure there's spaces. What that, when we say we're welcome to new people, that we're actually welcome to do people [00:13:47] Randall: Yeah. I, I think that that's a really valid point. And if you're going to have a ride that you're opening up to a broader audience, having something in place, whether it be, Points where somebody can break off, to cut the ride shorter or having different groups going at different paces and making sure you have a ride leader for each one of those groups I think goes a long way towards avoiding that sort of scenario that you were describing, where you have a bad experience. And then it's like, well, the bike is not for me. [00:14:13] Kathryn: Yeah. Yeah. So at our community, we, we have several different layers. So we have obviously the podcast we have a free Facebook community called women, gravel, cyclists, and that's women from all over the world. I think it's like between 14 and 15,000 women right now. And it's, it's still. I thought it would fall off after the pandemic, but it's still really active. We have a, when people join, we ask them they're how long they've been riding gravel. And I would say at least a third of them are brand new to gravel cycling. So they're coming to look for advice on bikes, saddles, Shammy, how to train, what events to do, how to find friends. And then we do, we have a small team of about a hundred women Or just a little bit more connected within us. And then this past year, we had our first gravel festival, our women's gravel festival, which is not a competitive event. It's literally just three days of hanging out, having parties riding and learning. And our first one we had about 220 women and we're getting ready next week to announce the 20, 22 dates. 2023 dates. What year are we in? So we'll be back in Bentonville next year for our next one. And we may be able to bump that number up a little bit. [00:15:33] Randall: It's a great location, by the way, the bike infrastructure there is, is quite incredible. And the community there too is it's one of the, one of the country's great cycling communities at this point. [00:15:43] Kathryn: yeah, we were lucky we snapped up Amy Ross. Do you know, have you ever met connected with Amy Ross? [00:15:48] Randall: I don't believe so. Tell me more about her. [00:15:50] Kathryn: She has been in the bike world for a long time, worked for different brands like Santa Cruz that she worked for. Wow. One of the big mountain bike things I can't remember, but her husband's NA Ross. He was a professional mountain biker and they moved to Beville. She was the had a bike Beville. and so she had left bike Bentonville. I was going through, and that's the group that like, if you wanna do an event in Beville you go and you talk to them. So she was, we'd had her on as a podcast guest I'd driven through Bentonville was checking it out. She was like, well, I'm leaving bike Bentonville. And I was like, do you want a job? and so we hired her as our event coordinator on the ground. Basically two weeks later. So she contracts for us as our event coordinator for that event, which makes a huge difference when somebody is in the community day in and day out to, to put together a really great community event. [00:16:40] Randall: And in terms of where people gather online and find you online? Is it primarily the Facebook page, what's your software stack look like? [00:16:47] Kathryn: Yeah. We have a website, girls go gravel. We put, I actually write a lot of the articles and then a woman Celine Jager. Everybody probably knows in the gravel space. Also she works with us at feisty media, so she writes some for us. And then I have another woman from CNN that I pull in a little bit here and there to write articles for me. Her name is Claire and we write a lot of stuff based on what people ask for in the Facebook group. So we're taking. Somebody's asking a question and we're like, oh, we see tons of answers. And I'm like, well, that's an article. So we create a lot of content. So we get a lot of visitors to that site just because we're creating content that people are searching for. From our Facebook page we have our Instagram page and then we have just private Facebook communities. We, we tried like things like slack or other communities and it's, it's just hard. It's hard to get people to go off of Facebook. I know everybody wants them to, but it's so hard. [00:17:42] Randall: We had the same kind of discussion when we started the ridership, we built it in slack initially, or I should say we got it started in slack, the community built itself from there. And there were certain challenges that we saw with Facebook that we wanted to avoid. But slack is great because it's a great communication tool and it is something that people are already using for work in a lot of cases. But then you can't do a lot of the things you'd wanna do like event coordination or dealing with club membership. Then again, Facebook has its own issues. I'd actually love to unpack this a little bit because I've had this conversation with Russ over at path, less pedals and Monica Garrison over at black girls do bike. I'm curious, what are the things that you. Like about the platform and that we're enabling. And what are the things that frustrate you that you would ideally avoid in migrating to something different? [00:18:32] Kathryn: What I like about Facebook is people. Whether they say it, they people say they wanna get off Facebook, but they're still staying there. And a lot of people are lurkers, but they participate in groups. And Facebook has gone really in, on groups in the last few years, because they've seen that trend. Right. So. they're promoting that. And I, I also worked for a tech company for a little while in Atlanta, and I learned it's really hard to get people to use something they're not already using from that that experience, you know, that's the biggest challenge. Yeah. And slack, it just felt like the conversation was really, could be really stagnant a lot of times. Because if people. If they didn't use it for work, it was hard to get them to like, get excited about it. And if they used it for work, sometimes people were like, I'm already on slack all day long. I have PTSD from the dings so, We also one of our communities within Feist, the feisty ecosystem, tried to use my new networks and that also wasn't a good fit for the same reasons. So, so that's why I've stayed on Facebook. I think I have somebody that helps manage the posts if it were just, and, and then I have another person on our team that actually helps manage like all the people coming into the community now and like, The community is really good actually at, at self-regulating so if somebody, if a spammer gets in or if somebody we have a no assholes rule, I don't know if I can cus on your podcast, but we have a no assholes [00:19:53] Randall: Oh, go, go, go right ahead. [00:19:55] Kathryn: And so, they're really good at reporting that and. You know, like we watch it and catch those things and delete them, or just kind of, don't let people get away with being jerks. And I've seen that on a lot of other, especially gravel, Facebook groups that I've been on. There's some real jerks in those groups and the way they can give feedback to people is just it's mean what I don't like is I when not everybody's on the platform and then you. Facebook sometimes is like, I don't think you need to see that anymore. So you have to go to the group if you want something. So, and then the, the other thing I've seen, and I think this is a characteristic of women, we really like to give advice. And so I'll see somebody post something I'm like, oh, they're about to get overwhelmed with like, so much advice about, you know, like, like, so and so just ask like, I'm just, I'm new to riding and I wanna do this 25 mile event. What should I do? And somebody's gonna like give them like a step by step nutrition plan. And I'm like, just go ride your bike. right. Make sure you have water and food when you go out. So people and they mean well, but I, I just see I'm like that they're gonna overwhelm this poor person with like so much. About things. So, so that's why I try to take things and then put, put that into good content. That's a little bit more succinct on our website. [00:21:18] Randall: What are the things that you either are doing off platform, so off of Facebook or that you wish you could do, but you just don't have a tool that works well with your current [00:21:27] Kathryn: Sounds like you all are creating a tech product. [00:21:29] Randall: Well, we've been working on the side with a, like constructing a mighty network and we have a concept for that. So whenever I talk to community organizers, I wanna understand those issues cuz , our vision is to create something that's like a community of allied clubs that share a common infrastructure, and then that organization, it would be a nonprofit. And so, we're starting to do little things like coordinate group rides in the mighty network. Chapter for the ridership and then post that within the slack group to, to get people to join. And it's not seamless , but it's a way of slowly experimenting with it. We have a couple of clubs that have brought their members into their club space in the ridership mighty network. So we're not so much building a tech product as much as we see that there's an opportunity to build a better place for people to come and find out, what to ride, how to ride it and take care of it where to ride, who to ride with and what events are happen. And right now, there's not a one stop shop for that. So maybe you find the girls gone gravel podcast or the podcast that we do or some other resource. So you find some forum, but there's not like a clearing house or one place where you can go and just say, I live here, what's happening near me. Who's near me that I can ride with. What are the recommended tires for my terrain? Things like this. It's very fragmented. [00:22:48] Kathryn: Yeah. Yeah. I would agree on that. Like, one of the things that I know the community wants is they would like they would like to find more people to ride with and more local local things. You know, like regional, because we, especially cuz we're a worldwide group. So people are like you know, every day somebody will be like, I'm in Africa, I'm in here, anybody here that I can ride with. So, those connections and that, you know, that would just become a full-time job in our Facebook community. If you started managing all of those little mini groups and, and like you all, like, we don't, the Facebook community's free. Like it's like, everybody's a volunteer. That's doing it. My job is with feisty media and girls go, gravel came under feisty media. So I get quote unquote paid as a part of that. But I mean, I spent, you know, thousands of my own dollars and hours building everything for before that ever happened, or we ever made a dollar off of anything. So I wish we had that. And then also kind of the step back from that, one of the reasons I haven't been willing. Try to create things around group rides, as I would really like some kind of course or training that you need to go through to be a certified like girls can gravel group ride or something like that, just because of the experiences that I've had. And it's not, I don't want like this massive training, but I want things like you should introduce yourself to people when they show up, it seems like duh, but I think people just get nervous a lot of times if they've not led things in the past or. you know, make sure everybody knows the route, like little things like that. And I just haven't had the capacity to create that, [00:24:27] Randall: Yeah. Well, and these aren't unique to women or to any particular demographic, one of the folks that we've had on the group is Monica Garrison over at black girls do bike. She also started that as a Facebook group with people reaching out . And it's now, a hundred plus chapters and a hundred thousand women around the world and they're organizing events and doing all this stuff. And the challenges that they have are no different than the challenges that we have. And what you're describing too, so there should be some basic toolkit for someone to be able to organize a ride and people need to be able to sign up to post a route, to have a legal waiver. Right. That covers everybody. You know, you're not getting sued for trying to get people together. But then also having some protocols that are in place, like you're describing, introduce yourself, you're expected to arrive on this at this time. Here's the equipment that you should have. It's self-supported. And I think that these things can be largely standardized in a shared infrastructure. And if that were created, then you could leverage the expertise that this much bigger community of people who just wanna ride. You'll have some lawyers in there, you'll have some people who have a lot of technical expertise in there. And then this toolkits available to everyone, you don't have to be an expert in any domain to leverage it. [00:25:35] Kathryn: Yeah, that sounds really smart. And, and, you know, back in my triathlon days, I definitely, there were definitely men that I saw that if they didn't come in looking like a triathlon body, they were treated differently often. So it, it is not just a women issue. Like you said, like it's, it's, it's human issue. And every, I, I just go back to, everybody wants to have a place that they belong and they wanna feel. They're wanted places. And so if we can create those spaces for people, like at the end of the day, when I look at group rides, I'm like one ride a week. Me like riding at the very back of the pack at a super slow pace is not the end of the world for somebody to feel like they belonged. [00:26:16] Randall: Yeah. Everyone has something to gain from having a, common space for diverse people to come together. [00:26:22] Kathryn: Yeah, I was actually talking to Abby Robbins. The first non-binary athlete to finish Unbound. And so Abby just received a good bit of attention. And then there was I can't, I don't know which company was doing a, a video about them, but Abby was at Unbound camp and they were tell at the gravel festival. Abby was telling me about an experience that they were on a ride at a gravel camp. Ended up just like talking to this dude for a long time. Like it was a great conversation. And then the guy was like, oh, well, we should ride some Unbound together. And Abby was like, well, you should know, like, there's gonna be a camera crew following me because of this thing. And the guy was like, oh, what's the thing. Abby said, you know, I'm a non-binary athlete and the guy as well, you should know, like I'm a conservative Christian. And Abby was like, I would've never, and they had a great conversation and Abby was like, I would've never had this conversation. I'm like, I'm sure this, this, somebody that's like in this very conservative Christian camp would also have never like sought out a non-binary athlete to have a conversation with coming from a very conservative Christian background in my past. So I'm like, that's the beauty of it. Right? You experienced these people that you would've never experienced in these points of view and these conversations that shape your life. And I, I just love that about our sport, you know, [00:27:37] Randall: I find that gravel amongst all the different cycling disciplines does seem to be especially amenable to those sorts of really healthy and welcoming dynamics because there's no one thing that is gravel and there's no one type of bike that is a gravel bike. You can, much more so than in other disciplines , ride what you got or get started with what you got. If you ride it on mixed terrain, it's a gravel bike. And yes, you can have fancy equipment, but then also, there's lots of different ways to be a part of it. And we see that in our listenership and within the ridership and even amongst customers that ride the bikes that my company makes. But it's also, you have people of all different abilities who are going for it. It's very different than say roadie culture especially competitive roadie culture, or even mountain bike culture had a little bit more of that festivaly type atmosphere, but then also has its aggressive, hard edge to it too. [00:28:29] Kathryn: Yeah. I never feel like I'm cool enough for mountain biking. I'm like I gotta up my game or something. [00:28:36] Randall: So tell me a bit more about feisty media and how that collaboration started who's involved and the scope of its mission and what it's doing currently. [00:28:47] Kathryn: Sure. So feisty media is a, a women focused media company. So it's, we actually all women on our team. Although we, we would hire men and we focus primarily in the endurance sports space and the whole conversation is about creating an empowering culture for women. And, and we go, we really hone in on the culture piece because there's so much within culture that has. Has given women messages, whether it's about motherhood, whether it's about diet culture, whether it's about equality in sport, that, that if you can address the cultural piece, like a lot of the dominoes will fall. So as an example, one of the reasons that women often under fuel on the bike is because the message of diet culture that you need to look a certain way. And so if you go back to like, actually. We should be fueled and we should be fed when we're riding. And like this message of diet culture is causing us to not do that. So, so we really kind of, we kind of addressed that, but we're, we're kind of fun and cheeky and yeah, so feisty was started by this woman. Her name is Sarah Gross and she was a professional triathlete for 14 years. So back in the day when I was doing triathlon, I actually had a. Triathlon podcast with this friend of mine, Bethany who passed away. And Sarah was a guest on our podcast. And then when Bethany passed away, Sarah reached out to me and she said, I'm so sorry. They wanted to do at one of their events, an award in Bethany's honor. And so, we just kind of got connected through that. She came to Atlanta for the marathon trials. Right before COVID shut the world down, but it was the largest women women's field in the marathon trials ever. So, I helped her do some live coverage for that. And I was like, Hey, they came out you know, starting a podcast, everybody keeps asking for it, but I don't wanna edit a podcast on my, like, by myself again, so much work. Would you be interested in expanding beyond triathlon? And she said, yes. And so. And then she was also like, Hey, we're starting to really grow. We could do some contract work. Would you be interested in some contract work? I was like, sure. And so it, it just, we started with the podcast. I was doing a little contract work within. I think six months, six or eight months, I was working full time with them managing some of our brands. We, we have feisty triathlon. We have our women's performance brand. We have feisty menopause, which is what Celine Jager leads. So that was the brand that I was brought on to manage at first. And then the girls gone gravel brand. And is that all that we have? So within that we have about eight podcasts that fall under. Kind of those different topics. And yeah, so then when we decided to launch a gravel festival, we just brought girls gun gravel fully under the feisty brand, which for me is so great because that was, we were talking about systems. That was a lot of what was stopping me is like, these are all things I can do. I can figure out the financials. I can figure out. The contractors, but it's not stuff I wanted to do. [00:31:48] Randall: Mm-hmm mm-hmm [00:31:49] Kathryn: being able to say, we have a team that's gonna put this festival on. We have money that we can invest in the front end. So I'm not risking my own money for things. It just really opened up the door for us to be able to, to try and experiment with some more things. So it's been a, it's been a great partnership and, you know, part of what we do is we highlight what's happening in the women's fields, but then we also create educational materials. For women for training or racing or those cultural pieces. And then we create communities. So that's the third piece of it. [00:32:20] Randall: Well, I wanna take a moment to highlight. I'm just looking through some of the articles and it's like training and breastfeeding for active moms, or how to handle your period when you're on a gravel ride. These are things that are women's issues, but then also you can look at them as part of accessibility. As well, and these are not resources that I see in any of the media that I'm granted, it's not targeted at me of course, but [00:32:42] Kathryn: Yeah. Now you're gonna get the ads. Now that you've come on our site. [00:32:45] Randall: Yeah. But in just looking at some of the content here, it's obvious why this needs to exist. It is obvious why this is such a core part of making this sport accessible. And in fact, I would even add that it would be beneficial for some of, at least these headlines to exist in media sources, that men or people who don't necessarily need them are at least seeing so that they're aware that this is an issue for this particular group of people that you may be riding with [00:33:11] Kathryn: well, because Celine yer, who does our hip play out pause, which is our menopause podcast. You know, she does a ton of gravel writing. Her husband puts on unpaved and she's like I'm out at gravel rides all the time or gravel events and all these guys come up to me that their wives are like hitting perimenopause or menopause. And they're like, thank you so much for your podcast. I understand so much more about what my wife's going through. She's like, it's so weird having these conversations with guys while I'm racing a gravel of it. [00:33:36] Randall: That actually brings up a great question, what would be the bits of wisdom or knowledge that you would wanna share? To our audience, either for women listening or for men listening to help them be more aware of issues that women face when they're entering the sport or participating in the sport. [00:33:53] Kathryn: Yeah. I mean, I think like the more we can normalize conversations around periods and pregnancy and, you know, menopause, all those things even. especially with the guys we ride with. Right. Cuz that's sometimes what makes it awkward is we're like, Hey, I don't wanna say that. I need to stop on this ride because I have my period, but I really kind of need to stop along this ride. You know, so, or pregnancy it's I feel like a lot of times it's expected that the, the mom is gonna just take this long break while the dad, you know, if they're both into cycling. You see with Laura and Ted king, I just put a post up on Instagram the other day, celebrating Laura, because this is her choice. Like she, she wants to do this, but she wanted to come right back to writing. She wanted to come right back to directing the event. That's not what the choice that every person wants to make, but for so long, the choice was you're a bad bomb. If you wanna do these other things well, for the, the message for the dad was. Yeah, good for you. You're making it all work, you know, celebrating them because they were able to, to hold all those things together. And so, so, so I think like that's a, a big thing is just kind of being okay with normalizing those conversations and like, they feel awkward at first, but like, I don't like go around asking women at the group. Right. If they're on their period and they need to stop, like, don't get weird. [00:35:14] Randall: But maybe if you're organizing a really big group ride, be mindful of the fact that you need a place for people to be able to access a bathroom, or an isolated patch of woods where they can get well off the road. [00:35:25] Kathryn: Yeah. Or, or event directors, you know, we've had talk somebody, when we posted that period, article an event director reached out to me and he said I feel really dumb asking this question, but we wanna offer feminine supplies at the aid stops and I don't know what to buy. Can you just tell me what to buy? And I was like, I love that you asked me this question, [00:35:42] Randall: Hmm. [00:35:42] Kathryn: right? Like we're, we're talking to Laura about coming back on the podcast because she's doing Leadville and is it next weekend is Leadville. And she's like, I have to stop and pump along the way. Like this is the first time I've ever done a race. I'm gonna have to stop and pump. Does Leadville have any place to stop and pump? I don't know. but it'll be interesting to hear. you know, how that plays out for her. So, so yeah, I think like the more we can just say this is, this is normal. Just, just like a guy can just stop and pee on the side of the road, because it's easy. I've been on group rides with guys where it's like, everybody just stopped and is going all of a sudden I'm like, I, I don't know what just happened, but I think I'm gonna go too, since everybody else is [00:36:21] Randall: I'm fortunate. I have an older and two younger sisters and my older and immediately younger sister both have three kids each. And so children and breastfeeding things like this. I've been kind of normalized in my world. But I see how culturally, it's still something that's very uncomfortable for a lot of people. And certainly I also had my adaptation too, even being surrounded by it in my family or with female friends who had kids and had to stop and pump, and just understanding that and not having it be a big deal. I think it's part of a broader cultural shift that's needed to support mothers, but also fathers in playing a more involved, more mindful role that acknowledges the biological realities, and doesn't push it into the shadows. But actually celebrates it. [00:37:06] Kathryn: Yeah, I agree. It's I love seeing, like, I, I love watching Ted and Laura because Ted's like, you know, he obviously was a high level pro he's. They both race in the pro category, but Ted's obviously has more visibility in that because of his background. But, you know, he is also saying, well, I'm not gonna do this event, so Laura can do this event or like, we'll switch. [00:37:29] Randall: Yeah. [00:37:30] Kathryn: ride times and just, and just saying, this is a part of our family, this is something that's important to her. You know, and, and just making that the norm. And so I think they're a really great family. That's kind of leading the way for what that can look like. Yeah. [00:37:44] Randall: Yeah, there's there's a very central role that a mother plays early in a child's life in terms of attachment and so on. But at the same time the gender roles that our society generally has people play, has so much of the burden falling on the woman. And I think it's a missed opportunity, frankly, for a lot of men to connect with their kids really early on. [00:38:05] Kathryn: Yeah, and full transparency. I do not have kids. But you know, just having had many conversations with women, seeing, you know, in the sport of triathlon women, once they had kids, they were done. And now we're seeing like all these moms come back and race at the top levels after they've had. Had children and you're seeing that in the sport of running and gravel's such a new sport and especially the pointy under the spear is a really new sport as far as the pro racing. But I think we're gonna start to see that more and more as well with women saying, I wanna have a kid and I also want to continue to race at this level. And, and we know women can for a long time race those long distances at a high level. [00:38:47] Randall: One of the formative relationships I had in high school was with a then student teacher. She was somebody who was very supportive of me during the difficult periods of high school. And I reconnected with her a few years ago, and she was doing elite triathlons . She's in her mid, late forties, I believe has had two or three kids and just crushes it just as competing at a very high level. And it's really impressive to see what is possible. And it also Dispels a lot of the assumptions about what life can be like for women after having kids. [00:39:21] Kathryn: Yeah, well, Scotty Laga she won the outright Arkansas high country. She's twin boys that are, I can't remember how old they're eight or. And she was racing pro when she got pregnant and decided she wanted to continue racing. And you know, Ernie was racing as well and they just made that choice for their family. Like she actually has the more potential in her career. So, you know, which isn't the choice for everybody. Right. But it's, it's just like saying it doesn't have to be the way that society's always said it should be that you're a, you're a bad person or you're a bad mom. If you want to do these. [00:39:53] Randall: There's inevitably trade offs, but I think that there should be a lot more support from the father and the broader community so that a woman can continue to pursue being a complete version of herself even after kids [00:40:06] Kathryn: Yeah, exactly. [00:40:08] Randall: So what is the longer term vision for feisty media? [00:40:11] Kathryn: We really wanna create something. That's a little bit like the south by Southwest for women in endurance sports or women in sports where there's a place where women can come and gather and learn and have experiences together and, and, you know, connect and, and just feel like, feel like all those pieces, the community, the education of what we're learning about women's physiology and how that impacts. You know, our training and the way we approach life. And and yeah, just like the unique ex opportunity for brands all come together. It was really funny Randall. Like we, when we had our gravel festival, one of the brands there, so 220 women, one of the brands made more money at our festival than they did all three Belgium waffle rides last year because women were coming in an environment. They just felt comfortable and they wanted to spend money and we heard people were like we wish you would've had more brands there because we went, we came to spend money at the festival. And so, so I, I just think there's so many opportunities for creating those, those educational and gathering spaces. So, so that's where we're going. We're four years old, so. right now, we're really focused on bringing together the community and, and we really listen to what does the community want? And we try to create, create that from, for the community, instead of saying, this is what we, you know, it's the, the classic tech, right? Know your audience and then build, solve the problem the audience needs solved. [00:41:42] Randall: As I think. The initiatives that we're involved in, that reminder to validate the vision, getting out of one's own head and one's own biases and going out and actually listening. And what is it that, that the people who are already with you, what is it that they need with the problems that they have? So we've covered a fair amount of ground in terms of how you got your start. Both as a, as a cyclist and with girls gone gravel collaborations and so on. Is there any areas that we didn't cover that you wanna dive into before we split up today? [00:42:10] Kathryn: I think those are the big ones, you know, I think just the more we're celebrating, we're creating space for all people and gravel and, and just saying when the whole community is there. We're all better. I think that's really powerful. The, the other big thing that we try to do is to, is to support the pointy end of the field. And it's not because that's who our everyday person is. Right. But I think the more we can elevate the women's field in cycling and, and kind of create fans and create support around that. The more, it gives people opportunities to see somebody. I'll just give an example. My little niece, I was taking care of her. She had COVID a few weeks ago. So aunt cat got called in to take care of her. And she was feeling much better. She wanted to go on a bike ride. So we were out riding bikes. And then I showed her a video of Kate Courtney when we got back. And she's like, Ugh, she's amazing. Do you think I could ever do that? And that was she's six and I was. You can, but like, if I, if there weren't women like Kate Courtney, that I could show her videos of that are doing those amazing things at six years old, she wouldn't like, see that and dream, like I could do that. Right. And so, just, just being able to see those, those amazing women out there, I think is really important for the future cycling. [00:43:24] Randall: Well, I think you definitely set an example as one of those women, who's doing the work to make it a lot more accessible in allowing little girls like your needs to dream. So thank you for coming on the podcast to share your story. And I look forward to continuing the conversation. [00:43:38] Kathryn: Yeah, we'll have to connect at one of the events soon. [00:43:41] Randall: Absolutely. [00:43:42] Craig Dalton: That's gonna do it for this week's edition of the gravel ride podcast. Big, thanks to Randall and Catherine for that interesting interview. I love what they're doing over there at girls gone gravel, and I hope you go check out their podcast. We'll have links in the show notes for everything they mentioned during the show. And another big, thanks to our friends over at bike index, a nonprofit that's out there helping people get their stolen bikes back. Simply head over to bike index.org and register your bike today. If you're interested in connecting with me or Randall, please visit us in the ridership. That's www.theridership.com. That's a free global cycling community, connecting riders from around the world and sharing information about the sport we love. And if you have a. Please drop a rating or review. That's usually helpful in our discovery until next time here's to finding some dirt under your wheels.

The other day I Googled the phrase “How to Live Well.” 19.5 trillion entries popped up. Yikes! Apparently a lot of people have something to say on this matter. And I do as well in today's episode. But it's going to be different than what my 19.5 trillion colleagues are offering up, I'm sure. But before we get into all this, welcome to You Were Made for This. If you find yourself wanting more from your relationships, you've come to the right place. Here you'll discover practical principles you can use to experience the life-giving relationships you were made for. I am your host John Certalic.  As an award-winning author and relationship coach, I'm here to help you find more joy in the relationships God designed for you. New to the podcast? If you're new to the podcast, the easiest way to access upcoming episodes is to go to JohnCertalic.com and click on the follow or subscribe button. That's John with an “H” and Certalic with a “C” at the beginning and the end. Dot com. You'll then get a brief email each week with a link to the latest episode, together with a description of what it's about. Today's episode, number 168, is about a really important relationship God designed for you and me; namely, a relationship with Him! It's where we'll find the greatest amount of joy, for He teaches us how to live well in so many practical ways. For example, he devoted a whole book of the Bible to this subject, drawing from the life of Solomon. the wisest man who ever lived. I'll read the first chapter of this book from the Bible, the Book of Proverbs, and then comment from time to time as I read. It's only 33 verses, so it won't take long. As I read, notice the contrast between people who are wise, and those who are not, and notice the practical advice Solomon has for how to live well here in the 21st century. NOTE: The comments I interject in reading of Proverbs 1 appear only in the audio version The Purpose of Proverbs 1 These are the proverbs of Solomon, David's son, king of Israel. 2 Their purpose is to teach people wisdom and discipline,
  to help them understand the insights of the wise.
  3 Their purpose is to teach people to live disciplined and successful lives,
 to help them do what is right, just, and fair.
  4 These proverbs will give insight to the simple,
 knowledge and discernment to the young. 5 Let the wise listen to these proverbs and become even wiser.
 Let those with understanding receive guidance
, 6 by exploring the meaning in these proverbs and parables,
 the words of the wise and their riddles. 7 Fear of the Lord is the foundation of true knowledge,
 but fools despise wisdom and discipline. A Father's Exhortation: Acquire Wisdom 8 My child, listen when your father corrects you.
 Don't neglect your mother's instruction.
  9 What you learn from them will crown you with grace
    and be a chain of honor around your neck. 10 My child, if sinners entice you,
 turn your back on them!
  11 They may say, “Come and join us.
 Let's hide and kill someone!
    Just for fun, let's ambush the innocent!
  12 Let's swallow them alive, like the grave;
 let's swallow them whole, like those who go down to the pit of death.
  13 Think of the great things we'll get!
 We'll fill our houses with all the stuff we take.
  14 Come, throw in your lot with us;
 we'll all share the loot.” 15 My child, don't go along with them!
 Stay far away from their paths.
  16 They rush to commit evil deeds.
 They hurry to commit murder.
  17 If a bird sees a trap being set,
 it knows to stay away.
  18 But these people set an ambush for themselves;
 they are trying to get themselves killed.  
19 Such is the fate of all who are greedy for money;
 it robs them of life. Wisdom Shouts in the Streets 20 Wisdom shouts in the streets.
  She cries out in the public square.
  21 She calls to the crowds along the main street,
 to those gathered in front of the city gate:
  22 “How long, you simpletons,
 will you insist on being simpleminded?
How long will you mockers relish your mocking?
 How long will you fools hate knowledge?
  23 Come and listen to my counsel.
I'll share my heart with you
 and make you wise. 24 “I called you so often, but you wouldn't come.
 I reached out to you, but you paid no attention.  
25 You ignored my advice
 and rejected the correction I offered.
  26 So I will laugh when you are in trouble!
 I will mock you when disaster overtakes you —
  27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
  when disaster engulfs you like a cyclone,
  and anguish and distress overwhelm you. 28 “When they cry for help, I will not answer.
 Though they anxiously search for me, they will not find me.
  29 For they hated knowledge
 and chose not to fear the Lord.
  30 They rejected my advice
 and paid no attention when I corrected them.
  31 Therefore, they must eat the bitter fruit of living their own way,
 choking on their own schemes.
  32 For simpletons turn away from me—to death.
 Fools are destroyed by their own complacency.
33 But all who listen to me will live in peace,
    untroubled by fear of harm.” Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation, Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved. So what does all this mean for YOU? If you start going through the 19.5 trillion Google entries for “how to live well” I mentioned at the beginning, I'm sure you'll find some things that sound attractive. But most of them are about behavior. Solomon, however, takes it a step further and talks about behavior rooted in our relationship with God and our reverence for Him and all that he stands for. Which raises the question for all of us, namely, how much do my values align with God's values? Here's the main takeaway I hope you remember from today's episode The answer to “how to live well” is found in growing in wisdom by looking beyond ourselves. It's to live in reverence to God and embrace what is important to Him, and then live accordingly. I'd love to hear any thoughts you have about today's episode. Closing In closing, I hope your thinking was stimulated by today's show, to ask yourself how wise are you living? Are you growing wiser as you allow the Spirit of God to teach you how to live well? For when you do, it will help you experience the joy of relationships God designed for you. Because as you know by now, You Were Made for This. Well, that's it for today. Please consider telling others about this podcast if you think it would be interesting and helpful to them. And don't forget to spread a little relational sunshine around the people you meet this week. Spark some joy for them. And I'll see you next time. Related episodes you may want to listen to 021:The most Important Relationship of All 139: Why Should I Listen to This Podcast? Our Sponsor You Were Made for This is sponsored by Caring for Others, a missionary care ministry. The generosity of people like you supports our ministry. It enables us to continue this weekly podcast and other services we provide to missionaries around the world.

Today I'm tackling a controversial question. However, it's not so much an answer that we're going to arrive at, but a journey we're going to go on. Was EGW an LGBTQ? Now for those of you listening who are not familiar with Adventist history, I apologize. She was a historical figure in the founding of the Adventist church. I'm not unaware of how negatively and even unfavorably just asking this question might be received. But I really believe it's important to ask questions, even the questions you think you shouldn't ask. I recently gave this presentation at the Kinship Kampmeeting, and it all started when I Googled a single question, as I often do, “Was Ellen White an LGBTQ?” For those who may be wary that I'm even asking the question, let me assure you, the results are inconclusive. Culture and language, and expressions of self-identity have drastically changed since the 1840s. So we have to do a bit of time traveling to explore 19th-century same-gendered relationships. While there are no hard claims made at anything, I do investigate a series of private letters that reveal a not-so-public truth. So if you're interested in going on a journey, buckle up because it's a wild ride.

Today I'm tackling a controversial question. However, it's not so much an answer that we're going to arrive at, but a journey we're going to go on. Was EGW an LGBTQ? Now for those of you listening who are not familiar with Adventist history, I apologize. She was a historical figure in the founding of the Adventist church. I'm not unaware of how negatively and even unfavorably just asking this question might be received. But I really believe it's important to ask questions, even the questions you think you shouldn't ask. I recently gave this presentation at the Kinship Kampmeeting, and it all started when I Googled a single question, as I often do, “Was Ellen White an LGBTQ?” For those who may be wary that I'm even asking the question, let me assure you, the results are inconclusive. Culture and language, and expressions of self-identity have drastically changed since the 1840s. So we have to do a bit of time traveling to explore 19th-century same-gendered relationships. While there are no hard claims made at anything, I do investigate a series of private letters that reveal a not-so-public truth. So if you're interested in going on a journey, buckle up because it's a wild ride.

Today, we're going to talk about getting better known. One of my quotes is the only way to exceed the average fees in your industry is to become better known. That's a frequent comment I got over many years. People say, I Googled you and you show up everywhere. Well, and that's what people would say when I got hired to speak. So that's what this episode is about. Screw The Commute Podcast Show Notes Episode 622 How To Automate Your Business - https://screwthecommute.com/automatefree/ Internet Marketing Training Center - https://imtcva.org/ Higher Education Webinar – https://screwthecommute.com/webinars See Tom's Stuff – https://linktr.ee/antionandassociates 01:56 Tom's introduction to Getting Better Known 02:42 Legitimate vs illegitimate 05:13 Using a Press Room and other pages 07:05 Getting ready to pitch 09:17 There is massive value in doing this 12:37 Are you available and can we afford you? Entrepreneurial Resources Mentioned in This Podcast Higher Education Webinar - https://screwthecommute.com/webinars Screw The Commute - https://screwthecommute.com/ Screw The Commute Podcast App - https://screwthecommute.com/app/ College Ripoff Quiz - https://imtcva.org/quiz Know a young person for our Youth Episode Series? Send an email to Tom! - orders@antion.com Have a Roku box? Find Tom's Public Speaking Channel there! - https://channelstore.roku.com/details/267358/the-public-speaking-channel How To Automate Your Business - https://screwthecommute.com/automatefree/ Internet Marketing Retreat and Joint Venture Program - https://greatinternetmarketingtraining.com/ KickStartCart - http://www.kickstartcart.com/ Copywriting901 - https://copywriting901.com/ Disabilities Page - https://imtcva.org/disabilities/ Recent Appearances - https://screwthecommute.com/recentappearances/ Podcast Hosts - https://screwthecommute.com/podcasthosts/ Press Room - https://scambrigade.com/pressroom/ Google Alerts - https://www.google.com/alerts Email Tom: Tom@ScrewTheCommute.com Internet Marketing Training Center - https://imtcva.org/ Related Episodes David Meerman Scott - https://screwthecommute.com/402/ Back Off Social Media - https://screwthecommute.com/613/ Scare Tactics - https://screwthecommute.com/621/ More Entrepreneurial Resources for Home Based Business, Lifestyle Business, Passive Income, Professional Speaking and Online Business I discovered a great new headline / subject line / subheading generator that will actually analyze which headlines and subject lines are best for your market. I negotiated a deal with the developer of this revolutionary and inexpensive software. Oh, and it's good on Mac and PC. Go here: http://jvz1.com/c/41743/183906 The Wordpress Ecourse. Learn how to Make World Class Websites for $20 or less. https://screwthecommute.com/wordpressecourse/ Join our Private Facebook Group! One week trial for only a buck and then $37 a month, or save a ton with one payment of $297 for a year. Click the image to see all the details and sign up or go to https://www.greatinternetmarketing.com/screwthecommute/ After you sign up, check your email for instructions on getting in the group.

Mark Reisman is a Founder and CEO at Empower Living Management and Chief of Acquisitions & Asset Management at Touzi Capital. In this episode we talked about: Mark's Bio & Background Senior Living & Multifamily Market Acquisition Process Management Underwriting Deals  2022-2023 Real Estate Market Outlook Geographic Areas for Investment Vetting Deals  Mentorship, Resources and Lessons Learned   Useful links: Senior Living Foresight https://www.youtube.com/c/seniorlivingforesight The National Investment Center for Seniors Housing & Care (NIC)  https://www.nic.org American Seniors Housing Association (ASHA) https://www.ashaliving.org Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-reisman/ Transcription: Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Jesper galley and you're listening to working capital the real estate podcast. My guest today is mark Riesman. He is the founder and CEO of in power living.   He is also the chief of acquisitions and asset management for Tuesday. Capital mark. How's your day going today?   Mark (38s): Going well, glad to be here.   Jesse (39s): Well, thanks again for joining, joining us today. I think listeners will get a lot of value. It's kind of hearing your background and story in the industry and where you specialize, but like we do with all of our guests before we kick it off, maybe you could give us a little bit of a background on your path in real estate where you got started and how that journey has been.   Mark (1m 2s): Yeah, it sounds good. I, I grew up in Los Angeles, went to school at UC Santa Barbara and we didn't have too many practical majors there for business. So my path was to go the emphasis in accounting from the biz econ major and got the main recruiters out of that program were a big four accounting firms. So from that I went into, I worked at PricewaterhouseCoopers for about five years plus some internships and, you know, spent a lot of time in accounting and finance have always had the entrepreneurial mindset though.   You know, I on real estate, after living with my parents for a couple of years to save up, I did buy a condo and rented out a couple of those bedrooms. And then, you know, from there just acquire more. So, you know, they had a house that I rented to. Students had some fourplexes, couple of partners in those here in Dallas, but Pricewaterhouse Coopers did bring me out here to, to Dallas, Texas. And I've been here for that about 16 years, a long time during that time again, you know, a lot of accounting and finance was controller of a restaurant fry franchising company.   Also I owned, well, I started doing triathlon and it's kind of spiraled out of control before you knew it. I owned the DFW tri club. And so I bring that up because one of my, my club member slash friends was in the club and we're on a triathlon trip. And I was pretty, pretty bored out of my mind at again, an accounting controller and, you know, with my real estate background, he was the CEO of a property management company for senior living.   And so he needed someone with my skillset and I was ready for something new. So I joined, we had 25 properties at the time, including independent living assisted living memory care, and then a couple of multifamily. And so, yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun time, a ton of learning going on during that time, especially, you know, the first eight months I got my legs under me, my friend ended up leaving to focus on his asset management business.   There's a little bit overlap with our clients. So I, I failed in the role as CEO CFO, a few months later, we lost our COO. And so rather than just hire someone quickly as the COO, despite my limited senior living background, I was the interim COO for about a year till we figured out what we needed out of that position and hired for it. So again, you know, running assisted living and memory care at that point, relied heavily on a really great team, you know, again kind of learning very collaborative team focused, but you know, ultimately I had to move on.   So, you know, summer of July, 2020, I left, I started to try and acquire my own communities and build it from the ground up. And so a couple of things happened there. One was, I Googled masters in senior living and I found a program at USC through their Leonard Davis school of gerontology, got to take my time getting that.   So a couple of, you know, just this last may, I got my master's in senior living hospitality. They had a neat program with Cornell to get the certificate in hospitality from Cornell as well. And then, you know, on the acquisition side I was chasing some deals. I did partner up with an Tang at Toesy capital and he, you know, we were going to partner on some deals, nothing ended up working out, but when I did have something ready to go, that did work out Toesy was very busy at a time with Bitcoin mining, oil and gas and some other, you know, very interesting deals at the time.   So, you know, I, he, he did invite me to be his chief of acquisitions and asset management to help with his large multifamily portfolio, some senior living that Toesy has as well. But for this deal here in a suburb of Atlanta, you know, I, it's still a good deal. I ended up bringing in another partner Romena with aspire ventures and yeah, great.   Yeah. You know, we're off to a couple of a couple months in the books here and after the fund start,   Jesse (6m 22s): That's great. So a couple things there, the, the first one, the senior living aspect, you know, it's kinda, it's I always look at it as the different sub categories of multifamily. What was that like getting into just that world, the senior living real estate? How, how was it different than, you know, compared to multi-family deals that you've done? I'm sure there's, there's nuances there that, that you don't think about when you're just doing straight up multifamily or, you know, either other asset classes where you're not really, there's no operating business aspect to them.   Mark (6m 59s): Yeah. Great question. And multifamily. I love multifamily. Okay. I love senior living there. They're great. And they they're there parts about each of those that I think they can learn from each other. And so, you know, when, when there are opportunities to blend them, we jump at it. So for, for multi-family, you know, if you're doing value, add the business plan is typically, you know, walk in, spend some CapEx, do some energy efficiency, upgrades, you know, maybe there's some kind of, you know, marketing or management, but you know, there there's maybe five or so people working there.   So it's not a big operations. It is real estate with some know-how. And so, you know, when that, when you then think about senior living, it is a very, you know, operations heavy it's, it's a business. You might have some of what I just mentioned from what my family, but more often than not the opportunity lies in the operation side. So in order to, you know, have a successful operations or investment in this case, you need to have really great partners who really know what they're doing.   And it, you know, I think I, I got pretty lucky the way that I got in, cause I kind of stepped into this, you know, great group of folks that I didn't have to, you know, I, I don't know. Yeah. I'm not the person that is going to be a caregiver. It's not in my nature, but my nature is how can I support my team so that they can self-actualize and when they self-actualize, that is reflect, you know, that rubs off on, on the residents and, you know, we, we have a better chance of them self-actualize so, and that that's really my place.   How can I best support the team who, you know, the boots on the ground or the folks supporting them.   Jesse (9m 8s): And in terms of the actual process on the acquisition side, is there a different approach that's taken? Cause it's, it's more of a, or somewhat similar to a private equity deal as opposed to a real estate deal, you know, what are the, some of the major differences that you find when you're, when you were acquiring? Cause I could imagine, you know, there's at least two things that you're looking at, you're looking at the real estate investment, but you're also looking at the operating business, you know how you're going to continue that with you, whether there's an operator there, if you could talk a little bit to that.   Mark (9m 40s): Yeah. So everything that you do for multifamily, you do for a senior living and then you, you know, so all the comp, the, the comp comparisons, the inspections all the same, you do add more inspections, there's a lot deeper audits, you know, residents records and it, you know, so, so th so there's more, and then, you know, from w with my accounting and finance background, you know, I, I usually start with the spreadsheet and then, you know, do things make sense?   Based off the hundreds of deals, I've looked at different areas, parts of the country, you know, is there room to increase rent? What do we have to do to increase those rents? So, so a piece of that, again, is similar to multifamily, but since there's only a handful of senior living communities in a five, 10 mile radius, you can kind of pinpoint, you know, can a market support, you know, the feasibility of, of what we're trying to do here.   The, again, going back to the spreadsheet, things have been crazy lately with, with labor costs. And so, you know, for independent living or the subsets of active adults, senior apartments, there's not a huge operations component. It is very similar to multifamily. You get to change the marketing. Maybe there's some extra activities. Those aren't very expensive, but when you start to add food for first, he add food.   So in some independent living may not have the some may. So maybe you're talking an extra, you know, five to seven people. When you had food, how many meals a day are you going to provide some independent living? Maybe it's, maybe it's just continental breakfast. That's not it, a large operations maybe have that plus one meal a day, or maybe have three meals a day, seven days a week. So there's, there's a spectrum there when you get to assisted living and memory care.   Yeah. You have, you know, three meals a day snacks, you know, seven days a week. And then with the assisted living and memory care, you add in the care or wellness component. So, you know, maybe we, we like, we, we usually have a registered nurse and RN in charge of that, that department and that you don't always need it. And then you have care team supporting those efforts, the ratio that you have for assisted living.   We typically underwrite 12 and a half residents for one caregiver for assisted living. And the memory care is usually about eight to one. Ultimately you need to provide a safe environment for them to, you know, for people to leave. So if you have a lot of people who are what we call high acuity and need a lot of extra support, maybe those re ratios shrink a little bit, but then you can also potentially charge more for, for those extra services.   So from a marketing perspective, some communities will have a all inclusive rent. So those rents are a little higher. Yup. Others charge a level of care. And so if you don't need much, you're not paying as much. If you need a lot, you pay a lot. And that's, I like that the most, I think that's fair for, you know, for everyone, if, if you're just charging for what you use, but you see it on.   Jesse (13m 35s): Yeah. That makes sense. And in terms of the management aspect of it, you know, when you go to buy multifamily, you know, depending on the philosophy of the investor, you could assume the current property management, you might have vertically integrated multi management within your firm. You might outsource it. Is it somewhat similar on the assisted living or senior living side of things, or is that something where you see majority of it's already in house and, you know, the purchaser would have those capabilities?   Mark (14m 8s): Yeah. I think it's similar to multifamily where, I mean, if it depends on the purchaser, so if you have a great operating team already in house, or that you work with, that you partner with, you know, even if you acquire a great operations, you may still want your people in there versus other purchasers who don't, and they, you know, if you want to get into market, or if you're already in a market, you don't make your partner, you know, then you can acquire that, that building or community take that the operator and then kitchen to go manage your other stuff.   So, yeah, the possibilities are similar.   Jesse (14m 54s): So in terms of the, the multi-family side of things, or I guess you, you could, you can answer this on both on both asset classes or, or, you know, subcategories, the underwriting process that you have done, or you do for properties that you're looking to purchase a lot has changed in the last 12 to 24 months. Has your underwriting change, you know, within the last year, and if so, what aspects of the underwriting?   Mark (15m 22s): Yeah, it's, it's getting much, much more difficult to get bills to pencil. Labor is, is the big, the big one for assisted living memory care. And then, you know, with interest rates creeping up, it, it is getting tough to underwrite stuff. I have quite a bit in the pipeline and I'm just not jumping on, on things right now. Like, you know, previously, so, you know, operating margins are, are key because you can get deals to have a return, but then, you know, if, if you're only doing a 20% or less operating margin there that comes with the higher risk.   Yeah. So previously before the pandemic, when I, when I was looking at a mix, you know, AOL memory care product type, I would aim for about a 35% operating margin, you know, 30% is still acceptable, but these days it is hard to get to 25%. You know, I, I do think, you know, ultimately with inflation, yeah, costs are going up, but we're also able to raise rents, but you can't do it right away.   You have to ease into it. You have to, you know, really create a story behind it. And so, you know, being, being sensitive to folks who might be on a, an income that, you know, it, it's not going to change much right now, if, if social security is increasing, like it is these days, I think it was just 5.9% recently with their Cola adjustment. You know, that that's something that I think is fair to pass on because we're now spending more to, you know, bring the people into, to help provide the care.   So, but it's, it's a open conversation with the folks that, you know, you're, you're, you're renting with you   Jesse (17m 31s): And has the structure on the debt side, has that on the debt side, has that changed in, you know, in light of the fact that, like you mentioned, there is quite a bit more inflation. The question of whether it's something that persists, I guess, is a somewhat of an open question, but yeah. On the debt structure side has, has your view on debt change given the environment that we're currently in?   Mark (17m 57s): So I haven't, so we closed on our AOL memory care community May 2nd. I don't have another example that is ready to pitch and chase. So I have seen a handful of multifamily, and I know that, you know, lenders are coming down on their LTV. You know, obviously like if, if you want a rate cap, those are th the, the cost of that is, is very expensive, you know, deal that we just closed on multiple 319 units in, in Houston multifamily.   We had the lender retrade us the night before lowering our loan amount by 3.3 million. And, you know, the w we did have an interest reserve from them. We bought a two year rate cap, and then instead of the third year rate cap, we just put cash in the bank for a reserve. So, you know, it's still the, the deal is still pencil. And luckily we're able to still close on that deal, but it was, it was a challenge.   Jesse (19m 15s): Yeah. I know it would be somewhat different for markets like I'm, I'm in, you know, either Toronto, Vancouver, New York, San Francisco, I, of these really expensive markets, they here operating margin 25, 30%, I guess, if you could kind of spin that a little bit more on the side. I oftentimes we'll S we'll think of it. At least the metric we use oftentimes is, is our expense ratio. You know, w what portion of, of our income is going to expenses, but we're, I mean, 25, 30%, that would be a very big challenge to find.   Are you finding that on the multifamily side, that your expense ratios or your   Mark (19m 54s): Yeah, no multifamily, you know, you're 50%,   Jesse (19m 57s): 2%. Yeah.   Mark (19m 59s): And even independent living still, if it's 150 unit independently, you know, we're still shooting for that, you know, 50% range, you know, can we go to 45% sure. But, you know, for as, as heavy as operations are now, you're still pumping out a great NOI if things are going according to the business plan and, you know, but, but then the cap rates are different, right? For the lower, for the lower operating margin, the cap rate increases because your risk is higher.   And so, you know, for multifamily, if you're running underwriting for 4%, 5%, you know, active adult, you're looking at 5%, generally, this is general writing. It's different for every market or unique situation for each building, but independent living, you know, maybe it's 6%, if you're adding in, you know, extra activities of a van or bus to transport people, a meal for assisted living rule of thumb is generally been about 7%, you know, can you go lower?   Sure. Can, you know, average, I'd say a seven memory care, seven to 8%, and then skilled nursing is a complete anything that I said today previously excluded skilled nursing. Yeah. But you know, those cap rates, you know, maybe it's 10 to 12%.   Jesse (21m 34s): Yeah. You're going to need that return. So in terms of the, you know, the, the environment is the environment. I mean, it's really the, there's certain things that we can de-risk and some things we can eliminate others, we just have to adjust to, or mitigate, or, or try to, in terms of the way that you're looking at the next year or two years without having a crystal ball, obviously, you know, what, what is your general view of this, the state that we're heading in from a real estate perspective, you alluded a little bit to, to rental increases, you know, over the longer term, anything else that you think that is coming down the pike for us?   Mark (22m 14s): Yeah. I'm not, I'm not gonna attempt to, to, to forecast that publicly. I will say that, you know, if you have in senior living, if you have, you know, good operating team and you stick to the fundamentals that, you know, if there is a downturn, you know, it's gonna, it's gonna make it very difficult for people without good operations to survive. And that'll give us more opportunity, you know, multifamily, I mean, you know, things that we'll be looking at our collection rates, you know, it's, I think it's been a big issue for, for multifamily, especially if you're in C class or B senior living.   I think, you know, there, I like to say senior living is recession resilient. It's not necessarily recession proof, right? You're not completely missing the exposure because if someone is investigating the stock market and the stock market crashes, you know, there goes their savings. If housing prices crash and now, you know, someone who's, who's retired and looking to move in was relying on the equity in their house.   Now there's less available or none. If there's an adult child, he's supporting the parents and they lose their job. Okay. So, but you do have, you know, it's not all doom and gloom because a lot of those folks, hopefully they're invested in something more conservative. There is some kind of savings, or, you know, a pension that is immune to those types of drops. And so, you know, do we fare better than multi-family in the downturn?   I think so. It's, I've seen data in the past that, you know, we, we do perform better. Will that continue to be the case? I hope so. We'll see.   Jesse (24m 15s): Yeah. I mean, you, you raise a good point with the, the aspect of rent that, you know, all things being equal, the asset asset prices or inf asset, excuse me, price level, rising inflation should download into rental rates being higher, you know, so that typically if I hesitate to use the word hedge, but if you look at real estate as partially hedging, or at least being like you said, resilient or resistant to inflation, it's that downloading of, of rent to our customers or our, you know, our tenants.   And on that note, on the asset price side of things, I think we've all regardless of the market, you're in, we've seen some crazy prices for real estate cap rates getting compressed and compressed and compressed. What I see in our market is owners vendors. Basically they haven't, there's still a big disconnect between where they think the valuation is of their properties and what the market's willing to pay. Is that what you're seeing and, and w you know, what, what do you think is the outcome of that?   Do you think that owners would, you know, eventually they, they see the tea leaves and they, they have to adjust, or you think there's just going to be a lot of vendors that are holding properties.   Mark (25m 30s): It's going to be all of the above. You know, I there's owners today who are now lowering prices or lowering expectations, you know, when we got Retraded on the multifamily, the, the seller worked with us on that. And so, you know, then we didn't ask for a hundred percent of the difference, but, you know, it is a shared risk. And so, you know, it depends on the tolerance of the individual sellers for each, each project, whether it's multifamily or senior.   Jesse (26m 4s): And is there a, a geo geographic area that you're looking to invest, or are you, are you, are you just picking deals based on, on the fundamentals of those deals?   Mark (26m 15s): Yeah. And so, since I'm in Dallas, it's easy, you know, two hour flight to a lot of parts of the country, you know,   Jesse (26m 22s): Level of landlord friendly parts of the country.   Mark (26m 26s): Right. And so we like, we like the sun belts, you know, my rule of thumb is generally about two hour flight now, would we, you know, we did look at stuff in the Midwest that was just beyond that, but it, it came scale. And so, you know, if we're looking at a portfolio that can support adding a team member, who's local, you know, then we have someone from our operating company in power living in that, in that town, you know, would I, I R or my COO still visit there.   Absolutely. But, you know, we wouldn't be kind of primary. We'd have someone from our network that would, you know, be full-time in that area.   Jesse (27m 14s): Yeah. That makes sense. So just want to shift gears a little bit here. So you, you are also an investor as a limited partner in real estate deals. I think there's, there's a lot of individuals out there. I know there's listeners, I've gotten emails before that they don't, you know, they're not going to be the general partner, they earn a good income, but they are maybe busy professional individuals from the LPs point of view, when you're looking at vetting, these deals, you know, what are a couple of the high level items that, you know, it will be the first thing that you look at when evaluating   Mark (27m 49s): Yeah. You know, especially the work I do with, with those, you know, it doesn't matter whether your LP, JV partner, what it comes down to, you know, knowing your operating partner. Yeah. So, you know, to the extent that you can do really great due diligence on your partner, you know, whether it's, you know, asking them a lot of questions, seeing a lot of case studies, you know, they, you need a great operating partner if you're an LP and you're looking to invest, you know, do you trust the sponsor?   And then, you know, so, so participating in the webinars, hearing all the work they did in the background. Yeah. I, I think that goes along with anything that you do, right. I'm one hand kind of going back to our earlier topic you were talking about. Yeah. I, I, I don't really invest anymore in the stock market. I know I should, to me, there's just, there's a lot of, there's a lot. I don't know. I'm not the expert there, someone to help manage that for me.   Sure. Can I invest in the ETF? Sure. But there's, there's a lot that I can't control. And so for me, I I'm much heavier invested in, in real estate. There's still stuff I can control, but I can control a lot more and I have inside information. Right. And so,   Jesse (29m 27s): And it's not illegal.   Mark (29m 29s): It's right. Exactly. Yeah. So I, you know, when I, when I think about investments, so you do you want to be diversified, right. And so, you know, if you're thinking about senior living as a diversification tool, it's great. He did need to do a lot of research. First, you should attend webinars events and, and, you know, understand kind of the background behind stuff.   Other than, you know, what we hear a lot in the media is, oh, a silver tsunami coming, you know, this big wave of, you know, the baby boomers are coming and it's true. But, you know, by the way, silver tsunami is a little derogatory for talking about our older friends here. But, you know, th the aging difference in the amount of caregivers, potential caregivers to older adults is going to be shrinking significantly here over the next three, four decades.   And so, you know, demographic wise, there's, there's compelling reasons to look at this as a different diversification tool, but do your homework first start to meet people in the industry?   Jesse (30m 44s): Yeah. We were, I was talking with a couple of colleagues yesterday about the diversification within the real estate domain, because there's this assumption that if you're just in real estate, that's just one bucket, but, you know, as you know, the hospitality, industrial office, multi Raz, and then those get chopped up even further. And I think there is a, you know, there's an argument that can be made that. Yeah, sure. It's you can diversify more in different asset classes, but it seems like your philosophy is very similar to mine. And that I know enough to know what I don't know.   So when somebody is talking about, you know, investing in a mine in, in the Midwest or Western Canada, I, I, you know, for me, unless, like you said, you have an expert in that area that you trust, I'm going to stick to what I know. I think the other nice thing with real estate is you seem like a level headed guy, mark, but for us a little bit more impulsive people, you know, we can't just press a button and sell, you know, seller assets stock. Market's definitely one of those things where every study I've seen on this topic shows that people get in and out of stocks way too much.   And their transaction costs are really what would start killing the returns.   Mark (31m 52s): And that's where technology is, is so great. And I feel like w what is it? Would it, it wouldn't be an NFT, would it where, you know, instead of having, you know, your, your LP investment going onto a piece of paper and sitting there until, you know, an event that, you know, you then, you know, sell your piece of paper when you can turn it into coin and then, you know, trade off that, you know, it might increase the transaction costs a little bit of, you know, getting it done.   But I think long-term all these escrows are going to turn into, you know, the, the word is escaping me right now, but, you know, going there's might be a part, we edit   Jesse (32m 46s): Sure. A we can edit something. I think I like, from my perspective, it's this aspect of, you know, starting to treat this stuff like credit cards, or, you know, this one, once you make it frictionless, I think for me is one of the, the, the challenges for depending on the individual. But yeah, I think, I think the aspect of real estate for me is that fact that there is a process. There's a, there's a kind of an implied count to 10 when you're thinking about being impulsive with real estate.   Mark (33m 17s): So actually, okay. So tokenize, that's what I said. Oh   Jesse (33m 20s): Yeah, absolutely.   Mark (33m 22s): So when we start to tokenize real estate, I think that's going to help free up this, you know, the ability to liquidate our investments much easier. So, yeah, that's, that's very interesting. And I know some groups that are starting to work on that as well,   Jesse (33m 41s): Right on, well, mark, we're coming up to the time here. There's a couple of questions we'd like to ask our guests before we wrap up, and then we can connect people with yourself and just basically give them a somewhere to go online. So if that works for you, I'll kick it off.   Mark (34m 0s): Yep. Sounds good.   Jesse (34m 2s): Awesome. What's something mark. And your career now that you know, that you, you wish you knew when you were first starting out, whether that's in senior living or just a real estate in general,   Mark (34m 15s): That's tough. I mean, certainly, especially in audit where I got to see all different types of days and, you know, and the inner workings of, of these big companies, small companies, I, I really appreciate the amount of diversity I've had with my background, but man, I also see folks who who've been in senior living this whole time and, you know, the level of that, the, the speed of how they've gotten to where they are today is, is great.   So I, I'm not going to say that I have any regrets. I think it's been a fun journey and I like where I'm at today, but it would be interesting to know if, if I had known about senior living at the time and, and focus on that from the beginning, you know, were how, how things be different. Oh, well,   Jesse (35m 7s): Yep. A couple words on mentorship, your view on mentorship and how important is, is something like that for somebody getting into our industry.   Mark (35m 17s): Oh man, it's, it's huge. And, you know, especially since I just wrapped up getting my masters at USC in senior living, you know, from that I learned about the vision center, which is a leadership development program that we're trying to get, get great people into the industry and giving them a pathway for growth. And so, you know, the, the program programs that we're doing at empower living are, are similar to that, right? We want to empower our employees or we call them team members to give them a path for growth.   And so we're, we're, we have, we're, we're working on partnerships with the local colleges, if there's gerontology programs, especially, you know, just ways that we can help develop them. So that'll help us attract top people, people who want to grow, who have growth mindset. And so we think, you know, that's just gonna continue to be a, something that is mutually beneficial. So, so it's very important.   Jesse (36m 23s): That's great. A couple of resources, one or two that you could recommend that could be a podcast. You're listening to a book you're reading a for listeners,   Mark (36m 33s): I would say senior living foresight is very interesting. And you know, Steven ran is this, he's been around the industry for awhile. He's got a lot of views and he, he challenges the industry. So it's very good. And he's got, you know, he's got a, a podcasts, there's a, what's it called and, you know, emails that come off.   And so it's, it's fun to listen to that senior housing news and McKnight's both have very good news. So you're staying up to date with that NIC NIC national investment center is, you know, my go-to for, you know, learning trends in the industry. And then I'm also a member of Asha American senior housing association, which is a little more on the advocacy side, but great data as well.   So, you know, those are combined, I think, you know, w what I do to keep up and yeah, I think those are good sources.   Jesse (37m 57s): Yeah. We'll put a, we'll put the links in the show notes. All right. My favorite question, first car, make and model.   Mark (38m 3s): I can't tell you that because that's like half of my security questions, but they don't make that car anymore.   Jesse (38m 9s): That's amazing. We've never gotten that one before, but, but I respect it.   Mark (38m 15s): I will say it was baby blue with blue Huck hubcaps and blue vinyl. And I inherited it from my grandma.   Jesse (38m 23s): Well, you're, you're, you're a classy guy, mark. I could tell that already mark, for, for people that want to learn more about yourself or senior living or the companies that, that you're associated with, we send them my guest today is Thank you so much for listening to working capital the real estate podcast.   I'm your host, Jesse, for galley. If you liked the episode, head on to iTunes and leave us a five star review and share it on social media, it really helps us out. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me on Instagram, Jesse for galley, F R a G a L E, have a good one take care.  

I personally never knew the Sunday scaries were a thing. Early in my twenties, I worked a job that required me to be in the office roughly seven (7) days a week. We had little to no time off, so there wasn't any true moment to experience the sensation.If I remember correctly, my wife was the first person to introduce me to the concept of the Sunday scaries. We were hanging out, watching a movie and she told me she had the “Sunday scaries.” I just laughed because I thought she just made it up and that it was clever. I stand corrected, and she explained what it was. Immediately intrigued, I Googled it and found that the Sunday scaries are indeed common and a sensation that many individuals battle with on a week to week basis. Why didn't I get them? Welp, my thesis allowed me to find a potential antidote. Warning: This antidote is not a one size fits solution. I apologize if it is not your fix. >> BLOG POSTPlease go  drop us some feedback in the REVIEW SECTION of our podcast page.podcast.twentiesandthriving.comAppreciate you again, and see you next week!

On this episode of the NTEB Prophecy News Podcast, there is an all-out effort by social media, big tech and their algorithms to make you think in a certain way and to browbeat you into submission until you do. When Google came on the scene in 1998, it captivated our global imagination to finally have the "magic box" that we could speak into and find the answer to just about any and every question that might come to our minds. In 2022, Google is so sophisticated that it's going from helping us think to thinking for us, and that puts you right in the heart of spirit of Antichrist territory. Today on the Prophecy News Podcast, double vaxxed and boosted people are dying for seemingly no reason, and Lord willing we'll figure out why. Jesus says that the truth will make us free, and indeed He will. It started out innocently enough, Hollywood actor Ray Liotta had died and I wondered if he had been vaxxed and boosted. So I did what most of us do, I Googled it to see if he was or not. The answer I got floored me. When I typed in "was Ray Liotta vaccinated", I got back pages of results where the headlines all read like this "No, Ray Liotta didn't die from the COVID-19 vaccine". Well, that wasn't my question! I didn't asked what he died from, I asked was he vaccinated. Someone said try it on DuckDuckGo, I did, and got the same results. Why won't they answer me? You know why.

Link to original articleWelcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Air Conditioner Repair, published by Zvi on June 27, 2022 on LessWrong. A thing happened to me, seemed worth sharing. What Happened A few weeks ago, the in-wall air conditioner in our bedroom ceased to function. Troy Barnes was unavailable, so instead we talked to the super, he recommended a company called Amhac, we ignored normative determinism (e.g. “Am a hack”) and called them. They charged a rather large amount simply to come out and take a look, with a diagnostic fee and also a noticeably generous per-hour fee. Then, a few days before they were supposed to show up, our other in-wall air conditioner sprung a leak – or rather, the leak got big enough that we noticed it – and the super advised us we had to shut it down until it was fixed, but he thought that one would be a simple fix plus the addition of a failsafe that should have been there to stop the leak; he wasn't sure about the bedroom one. The repairmen showed up, but they hadn't completed the necessary certificate of insurance to be let into the building – this policy is even more annoying and friction generating than it sounds – and we had to reschedule while they sorted this out. A number of rather hot nights later, they managed to come in. Their report was that both air conditioners were unfixable. The one in the bedroom was completely shot. The one in the living area was fixable in theory, they said, but due to some EPA regulation it wasn't possible to fix it. They could send over a contract for the new units, it would be. $28,000. I Googled for various new air conditioners, and couldn't find ones that would be that expensive. The guy explained I would need two of each unit, for four units total. I asked some trusted friends about all this, as well as the super, and all agreed a second quote would be a very good idea. I asked the super who else had done work in the building, and he remembered M.LaPenna Refrigeration, Inc. They charged by the hour as well, but without a ‘diagnostic fee' up front. Which on reflection should have been a hint about the first company. If you're charging for the labor, as you do, starting with minute one, why is there an additional diagnostic fee? It doesn't actually make any sense. This time, they took care of the certificate of insurance as fast as the insurance company could handle it, then got a guy out to look the same day that got approved. Almost as if things were urgent. Different attitude. Instead of two workers, this time there was one, who was keen to explain to me what was going on as he worked. The super was busy, so I explained the situation as best I could and he got to poking around in various places. Two hours later, both air conditioners were working again, and they sent out for the part to install the failsafe. I asked the man if there was any way the other repairmen could have made an honest mistake saying the units needed to be replaced. His answer: “No.” If I hadn't checked, I wonder how much they finally would have tried to get me for, but I'm sure it was a lot. What To Do About That First Company? I'm not sure. I emailed my contact to say what happened and suggested a full refund would be appropriate. The response was that the person was on vacation for weeks (with no warning). Which did not endear me. If it was one unit, I could imagine an honest mistake. But it wasn't. It was two units, with distinct setups, experiencing distinct problems. This was not a mistake. What am I supposed to do now? Chargeback? Report to better business bureau? Report to someone else? Do something else? What's the responsible thing to do here? I don't know. Thoughts and Takeaways What about takeaways in general? First of all, get a second opinion. Do not trust contractors of any kind, who you don't have damn good reason to trust, who tell you that you need something massiv...

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Air Conditioner Repair, published by Zvi on June 27, 2022 on LessWrong. A thing happened to me, seemed worth sharing. What Happened A few weeks ago, the in-wall air conditioner in our bedroom ceased to function. Troy Barnes was unavailable, so instead we talked to the super, he recommended a company called Amhac, we ignored normative determinism (e.g. “Am a hack”) and called them. They charged a rather large amount simply to come out and take a look, with a diagnostic fee and also a noticeably generous per-hour fee. Then, a few days before they were supposed to show up, our other in-wall air conditioner sprung a leak – or rather, the leak got big enough that we noticed it – and the super advised us we had to shut it down until it was fixed, but he thought that one would be a simple fix plus the addition of a failsafe that should have been there to stop the leak; he wasn't sure about the bedroom one. The repairmen showed up, but they hadn't completed the necessary certificate of insurance to be let into the building – this policy is even more annoying and friction generating than it sounds – and we had to reschedule while they sorted this out. A number of rather hot nights later, they managed to come in. Their report was that both air conditioners were unfixable. The one in the bedroom was completely shot. The one in the living area was fixable in theory, they said, but due to some EPA regulation it wasn't possible to fix it. They could send over a contract for the new units, it would be. $28,000. I Googled for various new air conditioners, and couldn't find ones that would be that expensive. The guy explained I would need two of each unit, for four units total. I asked some trusted friends about all this, as well as the super, and all agreed a second quote would be a very good idea. I asked the super who else had done work in the building, and he remembered M.LaPenna Refrigeration, Inc. They charged by the hour as well, but without a ‘diagnostic fee' up front. Which on reflection should have been a hint about the first company. If you're charging for the labor, as you do, starting with minute one, why is there an additional diagnostic fee? It doesn't actually make any sense. This time, they took care of the certificate of insurance as fast as the insurance company could handle it, then got a guy out to look the same day that got approved. Almost as if things were urgent. Different attitude. Instead of two workers, this time there was one, who was keen to explain to me what was going on as he worked. The super was busy, so I explained the situation as best I could and he got to poking around in various places. Two hours later, both air conditioners were working again, and they sent out for the part to install the failsafe. I asked the man if there was any way the other repairmen could have made an honest mistake saying the units needed to be replaced. His answer: “No.” If I hadn't checked, I wonder how much they finally would have tried to get me for, but I'm sure it was a lot. What To Do About That First Company? I'm not sure. I emailed my contact to say what happened and suggested a full refund would be appropriate. The response was that the person was on vacation for weeks (with no warning). Which did not endear me. If it was one unit, I could imagine an honest mistake. But it wasn't. It was two units, with distinct setups, experiencing distinct problems. This was not a mistake. What am I supposed to do now? Chargeback? Report to better business bureau? Report to someone else? Do something else? What's the responsible thing to do here? I don't know. Thoughts and Takeaways What about takeaways in general? First of all, get a second opinion. Do not trust contractors of any kind, who you don't have damn good reason to trust, who tell you that you need something massiv...

Everyone struggles with canker sores here and there. My daughter was struggling with them recently when she had some brackets and a retainer put in. We tried salt water and it didn't help, so I Googled other rinses and came across this one! I hope it helps you as much as it did her! 5 Steps To A Healthier Family: https://caylealldredge.com/5stepstohaveahealthierfamily www.caylealldrege.com for recipes, meal plans, weekly inspiration, and how to make the lifestyle changes in your nutrition and wellness. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

I am not a technophobe.I need no convincing that technology makes many aspects of our lives much easier and though I've been known on occasion to come late to technology - for a couple of years I was convinced that cellphones were nothing more than a passing fad - I DO eventually come around. I do. I find technology intuitive. I quickly become one of those people who can't imagine life without it.That being said, for several months now I've been at war with my phone's cleverness. Against my wishes, against any explicit instructions, and in spite of my very best efforts to override my phone's decision making, it has decided on a small but meaningful autocorrect change which is fundamentally changing my text communication.Every time I type the word ‘can,' my phone changes it to ‘can't.'I'm aware that in the grand scheme of autocorrect fails, this mightn't seem all that significant. I Googled some extreme examples of people whose messages have been completely transformed by the supposed smartness of their smartphones, and some of the texts certainly leave you wondering if technology is indeed a force for good.Instead of asking if his partner was keen to eat chicken fajitas for dinner, autocorrect meant someone called Luke asked about eating chicken vaginas, instead. Chicken vaginas? For dinner? Hmm. I think I'll stick with drumsticks, thanks.In another exchange, a dad asked his family chat who had a spare key to the back door.“Grandpa died” replied Mum. Grandpa DIED?! Oh my god! Mum! That's awful! But what a strangly blunt way to share the sad news. Sorry. Grandpa DOES, clarified Mum. Grandpa DOES. Autocorrect strikes again.My autocorrect drama pales in comparison. But just pause for a moment, and imagine how much the addition of an apostrophe and a letter changes the intention of my communication.Jack, can you get some milk from the dairy on the way home?“Of course I can't”Jack, can you please collect me from the airport?“Yes, I can't.”Have you confirmed whether those two Cabinet Ministers will be interviewed on Sunday?“They can't do it. They need to be finished and out the door by 9.30 so they can't make their party hui.”It's been months. I tried turning autocorrect off and on. I tried various help forums. Sometimes I catch it. I thumb back through my message and delete out the superfluous characters. Sometimes I don't. I'm at the point where I''m starting to wonder what it means that my phone always defaults to can't instead of can. Does it mean I'm a negative person? Am I glass half-empty rather than half-full? A can't-do, rather than a can-do?I can't only hope that my phone can't relearn that every time I say can't I actually mean can't. No. Hang on. Every time I say can't I mean can't. Wait. Every time I say C-A-N, I mean can't.Can't you understand my frustration?LISTEN ABOVE

Welcome to Living Well with MS Coffee Break #32, where we are pleased to welcome Regina Beach as our guest!   Our Coffee Break series is your chance to get to know members of our diverse OMS community. In each episode, you'll join Geoff Allix for an intimate chat with a different member of our global community. Our guests will share their personal stories and talk about their challenges and victories, large and small. We hope you find common cause and a source of inspiration from the stories of these very special people.   As always, your comments and suggestions are always welcome by emailing podcast@overcomingms.org. Regina is a very special guest for many reasons, including being an American living in the UK, and being an OMSer who works for the charity as its Trusts and Community Fundraising Manager. We hope you enjoy this episode's conversation with Regina, coming to you straight from the UK.   Regina's Bio:   Regina Beach is an American living in the Welsh Valleys with her British husband. She was diagnosed with RRMS in April 2021 and adopted the Overcoming MS program shortly thereafter. She is a yoga teacher and writer who regularly leads workshops and publishes poetry and essays.  She enjoys cooking and is writing an oil-free vegan cookbook with her husband. She also works part time as the Trusts and Community Fundraising Manager for Overcoming MS. Prior to diagnosis she was an avid long-distance cycler. Her goal is to feel strong enough and balanced enough to get back in the saddle.     Questions:   Regina, welcome to Living Well with MS Coffee Break. We're so pleased to have you on our program. The purpose of this series is to better get to know some of the diverse members of our community from around the world, and today you're in the hot seat. Can you tell us a little about your day-to-day life? When were you diagnosed with MS? Can you provide some context on that? When were you diagnosed and how did you initially deal with it? At which point did you come across the OMS program? How was that experience for you? Why did you decide to start following it? I understand that you're rated as having significant disability on the EDSS scale. Has the OMS Program helped alleviate this, or had no effect? What are your thoughts on people with MS choosing other types of diets or lifestyle protocols that are not OMS? Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about your professional life. You used to be a schoolteacher in the US, but now you live in the UK with your British husband, and you actually work part-time for OMS as its Trusts and Community Fundraising Manager. How did that transition come about? OMS is celebrating its 10th birthday this year, and there are some special events in the wings. I understand you're involved in some of these, such as OMS Birthday Trivia in June, and the Big Picnic in July. Can you tell us a little about what to expect? Since you work in fundraising, what advice would you give to people in our community who want to get involved in this domain to help the charity? My next question straddles the personal and professional realm: you're a devout yoga and meditation practitioner, and you also teach it. Can you tell us how that's helped you, and share some tips on how others can get into the groove of a daily mindfulness practice? Regina, thank you so much for being on Living Well with MS Coffee Break and allowing our community to get to know one of its own a little better. One last question before you go, and it's a bit of a tradition in that we ask it of all our Coffee Break guests. If you tap into your experience with MS generally and OMS specifically for a nugget of wisdom that would help people ease into and better adopt the OMS program, what would that advice be?   Three Interesting Facts About Regina (in her own words):   I'm a yoga teacher and have changed my practice to be gentler and exploratory. I used to teach hot 26+2 (Bikram style).  I used to be a public-school teacher in Chicago where I taught secondary art and design. I have significant disability, with my neurologist most recently rating my EDSS at 6.5. I have incomplete remission, so my symptoms are always with me.     Regina's Links:   Check out Regina on Instagram, all about her adventures with whole food plant-based eating. Read Regina's newsletter, all about creativity through movement, art, and whole food plant-based cooking. Have a peek at Regina's website.   Coming up on our next episode:   On the next episode of Living Well with MS, premiering June 15, 2022, meet Shari Short – MS patient advocate, professional in healthcare communications, and naturally, a standup comedian – and learn from her experience with MS how laughter can be a powerful medicine in itself.   Don't miss out:   Subscribe to this podcast and never miss an episode. You can catch any episode of Living Well with MS here or on your favorite podcast listening app. For your convenience, a full episode transcript is also available on all platforms within 72 hours of each episode's premiere. If you like our program, don't be shy and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you tune into the show. And feel free to share your comments and suggestions for future guests and episode topics by emailing podcast@overcomingms.org.   S4E52b Transcript Coffee Break #32 with Regina Beach   Geoff Allix (00:00): Welcome to Living Well With MS Coffee Break, a part of the Living Well with MS podcast family from Overcoming MS, the world's leading Multiple Sclerosis healthy lifestyle charity, celebrating its 10th year of serving the MS community. I'm your host, Geoff Allix.   Today, you'll meet someone living with MS from our diverse and global Overcoming MS community. Our Coffee Break series invites you into the lives of each guest. They share their personal MS journeys, and speak openly about their challenges and victories, large and small. We hope you find some common cause and a source of inspiration from the stories of these very special people.   You can check out our show notes for more information and useful links. You can find these on our website at www.overcomingms.org/podcast. If you enjoy the show, please spread the word about us on your social media channels or leave a review wherever you tune into our podcast. Finally, don't forget to subscribe to Living Well with MS on your favorite podcast platform, so you never miss an episode. So, get your favorite beverage ready, and let's meet today's guest on Living Well with MS Coffee Break.   Welcome to Living Well with MS Coffee Break #32, where we are pleased to welcome Regina Beach as our guest. Regina is an American living in the Welsh Valleys with her British husband. She was diagnosed with Relapse-Remitting MS in April 2021 and adopted the Overcoming MS program shortly thereafter. She's a yoga teacher and writer who regularly leads workshops and publishes poetry and essays. She enjoys cooking and is writing an oil-free vegan cookbook with her husband. She also works part-time as the Trusts and Community Fundraising Manager for Overcoming MS. Prior to diagnosis, she was an avid long-distance cycler. Her goal is to feel strong enough and balanced enough to get back in the saddle.   Regina, welcome to Living Well with MS Coffee Break. We're very glad to have you on our program. So the purpose of this series is to get a better understanding of the members of our community from around the world, and today you are in the hot seat. So, could you tell us a bit about your day-to-day life?   Regina Beach (02:12): Sure. Thanks, Geoff, for having me. I am American, but I do live in the UK. So, my day-to-day life takes place in South Wales where I am a writer, a yoga teacher, and I also work part-time for Overcoming MS as the Trusts and Community Fundraising Manager, which means I help people who want to do a charity bike ride, or a race, or if they want to sell something, or raise funds for OMS. I help in whatever way, sending out swag, helping promote and advertise, and working with some really cool OMSers doing amazing things.   In terms of my day-to-day, I was diagnosed with Relapsing-Remitting MS in April of 2021, so not that long ago, and so I am still in the middle of figuring out what works best for me and how to fully embrace the OMS lifestyle. I jumped in right away about a month after diagnosis, I found the website, devoured it, and soon after got the book, read it, joined the Facebook group. I really feel like this is the pathway back to health, or to living as well as I possibly can, for me.   Geoff Allix (03:40): So how was it being diagnosed mid-COVID pandemic? I'm guessing that's made a difference.   Regina Beach (03:50): Yeah, absolutely, because I really put off getting the tingles in my feet checked out for a long time. I wasn't really in pain; I wasn't really having mobility issues. I was just having lots of numbness in my feet. And since I had been extra active in 2019, I did miles of swimming, biking, and running, I thought I was just experiencing some overuse residual something. And I really put it off and put it off, and it wasn't until my acupuncturist was like, "Your cold tingly feet, really, I haven't been able to do anything about this. I really think you should go to your GP and get some blood work done." And I'm really glad that she said that because I think, especially for people who like to tough it out or who are used to doing physical things and maybe having their body have adjust to stuff, I really wasn't thinking that I had something neurologically wrong with me.   And so then, obviously it took a little bit of time to check, I didn't have low B12, I didn't have low iron. My GP thought maybe I had a pinched nerve and just ordered a cervical MRI, and then eventually a full MRI. And then I ended up in the hospital for a week because I was having, I guess, a big relapse where I really had some terrible symptoms, and was losing mobility, and ended up with the diagnosis about a year after I really first started having those tingles. So, I do feel like I'm getting good care now, but I feel like the road to finding that diagnosis and really finding my way was definitely prolonged because of the pandemic.   Geoff Allix (05:38): And I think MS is a difficult one anyway, because it's not like we have a key symptom. Most things you can say, "Yeah, that's likely to be that because you've got this key symptom." We're like, "Well, actually it could be anything." Your nerves do everything in your body, and we've got a problem with our nerves, so it could be, people have got eye problems, walking problems, bladder problems, temperature problems, pins and needles problems, and they're all MS. So yeah, it is really difficult.   Regina Beach (06:07): Yeah, exactly, and you don't necessarily think of, "Oh, I need to pee all the time," as being connected to this idea that the grip in my left hand is not as strong as it used to be. You don't make that connection naturally, I think, because MS symptoms can run the gamut.   Geoff Allix (06:25): So, when did you come across OMS? How did you find out about OMS? And how did that go for you?   Regina Beach (06:33): My whole life, I have said, "If I ever get really sick," kind of jokingly, "I'm just going to become a monk and be a vegan and live in the woods." And so obviously, one of the first things I Googled was, what's the best diet for MS, because I understand that what we put into our body is the molecules that we become. And so I thought, okay, someone has got to have been doing research on this, and so I came across Swank, and then came across Jelinek, and then the evidence was just so compelling to me. I spent a month researching recipes, getting rid of stuff in the fridge, overhauling things.   My husband's been really wonderful and has changed his diet too, so we cook together. We're writing down our recipes and compiling a cookbook. We have an Instagram where we post recipes. It's been really fun, and it's been a huge change because I used to really love cheese and dairy, and my husband used to be big into smoking meats and grilling meats, and so we've just done a 180 with our meals, and it's really helpful to have somebody to co-plan with and cook with.   Like last night, we had some smoked fish and veg, and it's actually really amazing what you can do, cooking without oil, that I had no idea was possible. So I'm actually really happy that we found this. He's a triathlete and has found a lot of benefits from the diet portion of Overcoming MS as well, and I've always been a meditator of sorts, but now I feel like it's really key, and I definitely carve out the time more than I used to for that component.   And yeah, I do take a DMT, and I'm hopeful that with everything together, I'll get some more mobility back because I walk currently with two sticks, and I'm really hoping to one day be able to walk without a mobility aid.   Geoff Allix (08:42): Yeah. That was the next thing I was going to ask actually, so you are listed as having significant disability on the EDSS scale. So what's two sticks? That's somewhere up like four and a half, five, or something on the scale?   Regina Beach (08:55): Yeah, so I don't leave the house without at least one stick and it really just depends on how my balance is feeling that day. And sometimes, if we're at a museum or if I'm out and about in a big public arena, I've used a wheelchair before, just because walking long distances is really tough for me. And that was really heartbreaking because it was something that, hiking and long-distance trekking are things that have been a really important part of my life up to this point. I did the Camino de Santiago, and I've done a lot of long-distance cycle trips across Europe and Asia and North America, and I feel really lucky that I was able to do those things. But yeah, so being in this new body of mine that doesn't function the same way, and is really slow, and I have foot drop on the left side, and it's really a big adjustment, and I don't think I'm totally there. I dream of running sometimes, or I dream that I can walk.   Geoff Allix (10:08): Literally in your dreams?   Regina Beach (10:09): Literally in my dreams.   Geoff Allix (10:10): I have that as well. Some people say, "Does that make you sad because you've lost it?" And it's actually no, when you half wake up and you're just coming out of a dream, if I'm getting back to sleep, I'm just like, "I'd love to get back into that dream again," the one where I'm running around.   Regina Beach (10:25): Yes.   Geoff Allix (10:26): Because it's like memories of what used to be, and very similar stuff I used to do, like do a lot of mountain walking and hiking and cycling and stuff. The things now that I think would be an amazing achievement, whereas before it would be climbing Mont Blanc or something, now it's like, something less daunting. I mean, if I can do something like Snowden, or something that's not a hard mountain, that would be such an achievement for me. I mean, I don't know if it's achievable because I'm not really, I'm similar to you, I always take a stick when I go out, but I'm not ruling out that I can get a bit better.   Regina Beach (11:04): That's how I feel.   Geoff Allix (11:06): There are people I've come across, who like me, think those aids, they're not disabling, they're enabling. So, using mobility aids, and certainly, yeah, so I've got an E-Trike that I use partly also as a mobility scooter sometimes because I can just put it a walk mode and just trundle along. Because I just, yeah, the distance is the problem really, whereas I'd love to go on a city break where I just wander around all day. But now I-   Regina Beach (11:39): I love that, yes, where you're just walking miles and miles and seeing all the things, and now you have to be a little more deliberate about where you're going to go, how long is it going to take, and where can you take a rest? But it doesn't mean you can't do it. So I was really nervous to take my first international trip since having mobility issues, but my husband and I went to Egypt over Christmas and New Year's, and it was amazing how much we were able to do and how accommodating people are when you just explain the situation, and how much people want to help and make things as easy as possible. So, we did a snorkeling trip and everyone on the boat was super helpful because that is, as someone who has balance issues, it's a nightmare to walk around on a boat.   Geoff Allix (12:27): Yeah. Well I've been scuba diving twice since I've had MS.   Regina Beach (12:27): Nice.   Geoff Allix (12:33): Yeah, I've been scuba diving in Costa Rica and in Thailand, because I used to scuba dive a lot, but actually I thought, well, why not? Because there's not a balance issue.   Regina Beach (12:33): Yeah. Once you're in the water, it's great.   Geoff Allix (12:44): Yeah. And actually when you're scuba diving, you don't really, really, it's not a lot of exertion, because otherwise you use up all your air basically. So you are trying to do everything in a very gentle motion, so I still have the skills, and yeah, the problem is getting on and off the boat. On the boat, because it's moving around, there's loads of stuff to hold onto because everyone's got to hold onto stuff, so actually it wasn't that bad. So yeah, I could do that, and that was really cool.   Regina Beach (13:11): Yeah, and it is just about finding what you can do and leaning into what you can do, and making new goals, like you said. There's a little lake, we live right near the Cwmcarn Forest Drive, and one of my goals is to make it around that whole little lake without taking a break. And that is a very small goal compared to maybe what I used to be doing, but that's fine, that's where I'm at right now, and I'd rather be getting out there and trying for that. And also I just really appreciate my good days because, obviously, I used to take walking and running for granted, and now I'm like, "Oh, I feel great today. I'm definitely going to go out for a walk or for a little hike." So there's the small joys.   Geoff Allix (13:58): Yeah. And the next question is, what are your thoughts on people with MS choosing other types of diets or lifestyle alternative to OMS?   Regina Beach (14:11): Yeah, so this is really interesting. Since being diagnosed and disclosing my diagnosis, I've had a lot of people say, "Oh I have MS too," or "I have another autoimmune condition," which I think is really interesting, how much you don't know about your acquaintances. I feel like disclosing brought me really close to some people who I had no idea also had things that they were dealing with. But I also think that it's a really personal decision about how you're going to self-manage your condition, and so I've definitely had to be firm, but kind, in my approach saying, "I'm sticking with OMS. This is what I want to do. If you want to do paleo, you want to do another diet, that's fine."   I think it really comes down to how you feel and what you can stick with. And so anybody who is managing through lifestyle, I think deserves big kudos. Anyone who's making these big changes in their lives, whether it's adding exercise or mindfulness, or taking supplements, or whatever it is. I think we're not really at odds with most of the other diets, they are mostly whole food based, they are mostly much healthier than the standard Western diet, and I think that you want to be encouraging, this idea that we have autonomy to make changes that aren't just dictated from a neurologist or a GP, that we can do something for ourselves.   Geoff Allix (15:46): Yeah, and I've spoken to people on different protocols, Mathew Embry, Best Bet Diet, talked to him, and the commonality is greater than the differences.   Regina Beach (16:00): Much more.   Geoff Allix (16:01): And with the Wahls protocol similarly, basically they're all non-dairy, they're all low saturated fat, they're all whole food based. Now it may be that you have organic grass fed, lean meat occasionally on the Best Bet Diet. It may be that you have, gluten is okay on OMS, which is not on others. So there's little bits on the edges, but the core bits are really the same, low saturated fat, whole food diet with no dairy, is basically common across all of them. And I think-   Regina Beach (16:39): Yeah, and even Swank had low fat meat after year one on his original diet, which the OMS diet is built on, so there is so much that is in that same vein.   Geoff Allix (16:53): Yeah. I think some people, as well, because there's a lot of stuff with fasting now as well, and I think there's a lot of interest in fasting. And the paleo diet, if you cut out all your carbs, then you put your body into a fasting state, but when you talk to the neurologist about this, when you are proposing this, they're saying, "Oh yeah, we're not actually encouraging you to just go on an Atkins diet because that would put you into a fasting state, but that's not actually healthy. What you want to be doing is going to fasting state by reducing the time window you eat, or not eating for a day, a week," these different ways of doing it, and then eating a healthy lifestyle. So there's sort of like-   Regina Beach (17:35): Yes, and not just putting yourself into ketosis for the sake of it by not consuming carbs, which are really in everything, and as long as you're eating whole grains, is very, very healthy. That's what so many cultures and indigenous people's whole diets are based on, potatoes, or rice, or other grains. And I think cutting them out is, like you're saying, it's not healthy for the long haul.   Geoff Allix (18:06): So, to change a little bit and talk about your professional life, you were a schoolteacher in the US, moved to the UK and live with your British husband, and now work part-time for OMS as the Trusts and Community Fundraising Manager, as you mentioned. So how did that transition come about?   Regina Beach (18:27): Oh my gosh, I feel that life in Chicago, when I was teaching in public schools there, is a lifetime ago. I was really burnt out, it's a really tough job. I really give a lot of praise to all of the schoolteachers out there, especially in these strange times. But I was really at a point in my career where I was turning into the type of teacher I didn't want to be and needed to pivot, and so I decided to take a year to do a Fulbright Fellowship in Laos in Southeast Asia, and that was my last full year of teaching. I taught teacher candidates there, and that's actually where I met my now husband, who was on a motorcycle adventure through Southeast Asia, and came back to visit me a couple times.   And so, through that process, I was really thinking, okay, what is it that I really like? What is it that I really want to do? I did yoga teacher training. I became a lot more interested in mindfulness and moving meditation, and pivoted back to my first love, which was writing. I studied journalism in university, and really decided, okay, I want to pursue writing. And so some of my work with Overcoming MS is grant writing, and blog writing, and press releases, and I also write essays and poetry in my own time. And so, I'm just trying to carve out a life that's more reflective of my values and what I really enjoy and what I want to spend my time doing. And I was kind of already in that mode when I was diagnosed, but since diagnosis, it's been even more acute that, the time I have, I want to spend it focusing on the things that I really enjoy, and the things where I feel like I can make a big difference.   Geoff Allix (20:31): So OMS is celebrating its 10th birthday this year, and you've got some special events upcoming, there's various OMS birthday trivia, OMS big picnics, and other events. So could you tell us a bit about the events upcoming?   Regina Beach (20:45): Yeah, so we're really excited to celebrate a decade of the charity promoting the OMS program for people worldwide. And so, yes, the big picnic is a great way to get family, friends, your OMS Circle, involved in some outdoor fun, a barbecue, maybe, bringing OMS compliant foods, teaching people about what the diet pillar is about and why, and possibly even doing some fundraising for the charity. And we are going to do a big birthday quiz on Zoom this year, so that will be really fun, having people answer questions both about the program and also just fun trivia stuff.   And so, this year is really important because 10 years ago, Linda Bloom decided that the OMS program needed a cheerleader. I feel the organization is a mouthpiece to help deliver the content and help people who have MS understand that there are thousands of us who are living better because we're self-managing through the program. So, yeah, if you would like to get involved, email fundraising@overcomingms.org. We're really excited to celebrate. We're celebrating the launch of the new brand, we're celebrating what we're moving towards in the future, and hopefully it will be another 10 years of growth and expansion, and yeah, great food and great fun.   Geoff Allix (22:28): So my next question straddles personal and professional, so you're a devout yoga and meditation practitioner, which you also teach, so could you tell us a bit about how that's helped you? How that yoga and meditation side of things has helped you, and share some tips to others about how they could get into a daily meditation practice?   Regina Beach (22:50): Yeah, for sure, so I used to teach a very yang, very physical style of yoga, the 26+2 Bikram series, which is done in a 40-degree Celsius hot room, which I can't do anymore because heat really exacerbates my symptoms, and a lot of the standing series involves so much balance that it is just out of reach for me right now. So I really have had to adjust my practice and my teaching from this really intense [inaudible 00:23:24] to a much gentler, more yin, more long hold, more floor-based yoga.   And so that was really tough for me at first, because obviously this is something I've been doing, I took my first yoga class when I was in university, I was 18 years old, it's been with me for a long time. I'm trying to see it as, I have all of these years of experience, but now I have a beginner's body where I can't necessarily do all of the things that I used to do, and I'm now reteaching myself.   And so, coming at it from that perspective, I feel has been really helpful because it's just being curious about, what can I do today? Being curious about, how does my body feel today? And leaning into that, and saying, "Okay, this is how I feel. This is what I can do. This is how much I can do." And just letting the rest go, and that's where the mindfulness and meditation come in because we cannot force ourselves to do something that we're not able to, and that doesn't necessarily have to lead to frustration. I think that piece is so crucial, when you are able to accept where you are at today, then everything just floats a little better and we're a little more at ease.   I think you can do meditation no matter what you're doing, whether you're doing yoga, whether you're just sitting mindfully, whether you're drinking tea mindfully, whether you're just taking a nice walk and observing the birds and the trees. I think all of that is just, what can I do? Where am I now? How am I feeling in my body? All of that is mindfulness.   And I'm just appreciating where I'm at, and what I can do, and moving towards little goals to improve my balance, to improve my flexibility, and not necessarily treating my old body as the goal, because I might not be able to do all of those yoga asanas in the future, and that's fine, that doesn't mean I can't deepen my practice. And for a while I was thinking, well, does this make me a terrible yoga teacher if I can't do all of these poses? And I've come to the realization that people don't actually care if their yoga teacher can do fancy arm balances, what they care about is if their yoga teacher can meet them where they're at, and help them find comfort and ease, and a little bit of stretch and relaxation in their own body. And so that's also been just a new version of my yoga practice and my yoga teaching.   Geoff Allix (26:03): Yeah. I mean, Usain Bolt's coach is not a world record runner, so you can teach without being at that level, can't you?   Regina Beach (26:13): Exactly.   Geoff Allix (26:14): So, thank you so much for joining us on the Living Well with MS Coffee Break, and allowing the community to get to know you a bit better. So there's one last question that we have that we tend to always ask people, which is, if you could tap into your experience with MS generally, and OMS specifically, for a nugget of wisdom to help people, particularly if they're new to the OMS program, what would that be?   Regina Beach (26:39): I think, really planning out who you'll tell, and how, and what you need from those people you tell is really important because, for as strong as we all are, you need a community behind you. So whether you're going to lean on your OMS Circle, or your family, or your friends, I think having a plan and knowing how you're going to react when someone doubts that what you're doing is helpful. Because I think as a newly diagnosed person, it can be really crushing to hear someone say, "Oh, there's no proof for that," or "Why are you doing that? That's pseudoscience," or whatever the negative, we always remember the negative more than the positive. And so building a community of trusted people, of people who are supporting what you're doing, and having ways to deflect any naysayers, would just go a long way because the mental health aspect of having MS is no joke and it takes a village to keep people moving forward and living well, and taking care of all of these different components of the lifestyle.   But we can do it, and we can do it together, and I think things like the podcast, and the OMS Circles, and all of the wonderful OMSers really do support one another. I think that's the best part of this program, is the community.   Geoff Allix (28:03): Thank you. And thank you very much for joining us, Regina Beach, and thank you for all your work that you do with OMS as well.   Regina Beach (28:11): Thanks, Geoff, it was great to talk to you today.   Geoff Allix (28:13): Thank you for listening to this episode of Living Well with MS Coffee Break. Please check out this episode's show notes at www.overcomingms.org/podcast. You'll find all sorts of useful links and bonus information there.   Do you have questions about this episode, or do you or someone you know want to be featured in a future Coffee Break episode? Then email us at podcast@overcomingms.org. We'd love to hear from you. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform, so you never miss an episode. Living Well with MS Coffee Break is kindly supported by a grant from the Happy Charitable Trust. If you'd to support the Overcoming MS charity and help keep our podcast advertising free, you can donate online at www.overcomingms.org/donate.   To learn more about Overcoming MS and its array of free content and programs, including webinars, recipes, exercise guides, OMS Circles, our global network of community support groups, and more, please visit our website at www.overcomingms.org. While you are there, don't forget to register for our monthly e-Newsletter so you can stay informed about the podcast and other news and updates from Overcoming MS. Thanks again for tuning in and see you next time.   The Living Well with MS family of podcasts is for private non-commercial use and exists to educate and inspire our community of listeners. We do not offer medical advice. For medical advice, please contact your doctor or other licensed healthcare professional. Our guests are carefully selected, but all opinions expressed are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the Overcoming MS charity, its affiliates, or staff.  

In Episode 50 – Marketing is NOT my thing, I mentioned that I had learned that the RV space I'm playing in is called Outdoor Hospitality.  I had never heard anyone refer to it as that before.  Because I'd never heard it, I did what most curious minds do, I “Googled it”.  Hi, I'm Mechiel Kopaska of the Fearless Innovator Podcast and today I'm going to share with you what I learned about the Outdoor Hospitality Industry.   Wow! A whole new world opens up when you know the right keywords to search on.  This journey in RV Parks is sounding very familiar to the journey I took in Real Estate Investing.  I first started out on my own and before you know it, I found out where everyone with like minds was hanging out.  This is no different, I just had to keep digging!  They say to surround yourself with those smarter than you!  I've found them! This episode is going to be a bit shorter, but I wanted to get this information out to those that own parks because you could be like me and didn't even know this existed! I feel comfortable saying that perhaps the mom-and-pop parks may not know about this while the larger parks should know about it. Just like in my IT days we would go to Microsoft events to learn about all the latest and greatest upgrades to products, new features being added and to surround ourselves with the experts in the field.  The vendor room was where the rubber met the road.  We'd learn about all the new integrated products coming out and how they integrated with our Microsoft products.  The best part was the networking!   Networking for me was key because when I quit my J.O.B, I leaned on my network to bring me work and it did, until I was ready to quit that! Well, if you own an RV Resort or you're thinking about owning one, I've found the conference for you and it's right here in sunny Florida on the beach, yes, Daytona Beach! In all my travelling around looking at RV Parks, no one ever mentioned that there was an RV Park and Campground Conference & Expo June 6-8 in Daytona Beach, FL.  I guess I wasn't talking to the right people! I took one look at the website, which is well put together, I might add, and I looked at the Vendor list and the agenda for the 3 days and I mentioned it to Kurt, the next day we cleared our calendars and booked us a site at Daytona's Endless Summer Campground near the event on Daytona Beach. We live in our RV so it's just as easy as hooking up, loading my cats and we're out of here!   I know 3 of the vendors so I'll definitely be stopping by their booths! I will post the agenda in my notes below because there's just too much to mention.   We did learn that they will have breakout sessions, so Kurt and I are going to divide and concur and then discuss later what we learned. I thought my days of attending conferences was over, but this conference has got me really excited.  I've already connected with the some of the Staff Members and one of the Board of Directors who just happens to be in my back yard.  I drove through her park a couple of weekends ago.  Small world!   I'm excited about meeting people and learning everything I can and surrounding myself with Smart RV Park owners!  One day I'll grow up to be one! I'm Mechiel Kopaska of the Fearless Innovator Podcast, I hope to see you at the conference! Florida and Alabama RVCA 2022     AGENDA Monday, June 6th 1:00 – 5:00 pm Conference Registration – Bill France Foyer  (Registration will also be open on Tuesday Morning from 8-10 am) 5:00 – 7:00 pm Welcome Reception – Ocean Terrace –  Open to all paid attendees and exhibitors Tuesday, June 7th Breakfast on your own 8:00 – 10:00 am  Conference Registration 10:00 – 11:45 am  Welcome & Opening Session:  Lead with Certainty – Managing People Not Promises – Creating a Culture of Ownership, Strengthening Communications, and Improving Team Performance – Presented by Motivational Keynote Speaker, Eric Papp 12:00 – 1:30 pm Lunch, Annual Meeting, and Special Guest Speakers 1:30 – 2:30 pm General Session – Legislative Review, Governmental Affairs, and Legal Updates.  Important legal changes that impact your business and our industry – Marc Dunbar and David Eastman 2:30 – 3:30 pm General Session – Industry Challenges, Opportunities, and Trends – Industry Panel, group discussion, and Q&A. Topics: FL & AL Insurance Update, RV Tech/Campground Program, Industry Partnerships 3:45 – 4:45 pm Breakout 1: The EVs are coming – Is your RV Park ready for the future? Technical tips on how to prepare and profit from Electrical Charging – by Heidi Doyle, Utility Supply Group 3:45 – 4:45 pm Breakout 2: What you need to include in your Park Policies, Rules & Regulations – Best practices and standards for protecting your park while providing a great guest experience – Panel and Q&A 5:00 – 7:30 pm Reception, Auction & Appreciation Dinner: Grand Ballroom   Wednesday, June 8th 8:30 – 11:30 am Exhibitor Set-up in the Grand Ballroom 8:00 – 9:15 am Cracker-Barrel Breakfast – Topics: How to Get Started in this industry, Construction and Developing Do's and Don'ts, Working with your local government for approval, and more 8:00 – 9:15 am Cracker-Barrel Breakfast – Topics: Park Operational Issues, ADA, Taxes, Guest Ejections, Best Practices, Common Problems and Solutions 9:30 – 10:30 am Breakout 3: Emergency Preparedness – Natural Storms, Man Made Disasters, Dangerous Situations, Sewage Spills, Power Outages and more – How to customize a plan for your staff and your guests – Presented by Patrick Hardy, Hytropy 9:30 – 10:30 am Breakout 4: Is your RV Park maximizing it's earnings potential? How to make changes to your RV Park to attract different (new) guests and increase your profits. The pros and cons of long-term vs. short-term guests and rentals, and how your park “type” affects operational costs and revenue potential. Discover what's best for you and your campground – Panel Discussion and Q&A 10:45 – 11:45 am   Breakout 5: Mitigating Risks and Lowering your Insurance Costs – Irene Jones, Marshal & Sterling 10:45 – 11:45 am Breakout 6: Employee Labor Law and Employee/Employer Legal Issues – Department of Labor 1200 – 5:00 pm SUPPLIER EXPO and LUNCH: Grand Ballroom 5:15 – 6:00 pm Wrap-up Group Session: One last gathering to recap the conference, discuss newfound valuable tips, network with others, and have all your questions answered.

Weirdly, this episode goes out three days after the announcement in that other universe that Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse - Part One has been delayed further to June 2023. Thankfully, Mr. Multiverse and I are here to recap the version we got. How did it live up as a sequel? What issues arise from movies with "Part One" in the title? How well was everything balanced? Listen and find out! Show Notes: 9:00 - Here are the two YouTube essays I watched, Nathan Zed's The Death of the Teen Dystopia, and Sarah Z's The Rise and Fall of Teen Dystopias (which I watched sped up). 9:30 - Check out the Snake Eyes episode. 16:30 - I didn't realize until this moment that Chapek's name sounds like "paycheck" but with sounds reversed. 21:00 - According to JMS' autobiography Becoming Superman, he wrote Ninja Assassin within 53 hours. 25:45 - Check out the Resident Evil episode. 26:15 - "Development" could mean anything I guess, so I suppose we'll see if WB follows through with the Milestone stuff. 41:40 - I Googled this and didn't find anything helpful right away, so gave up. Mr. Multiverse: Patreon | YouTube Duel of the Monsters: Vol 1 | Vol 2 Question/Possible Answer episode about Clockstoppers Steven Shinder: Book | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | Website Yesshift: Anchor | Facebook | YouTube Question/Possible Answer episode about Clockstoppers Email delayedreplaypodcast@gmail.com

Gina made a terrible lasagne. Boz debunks the myth of chicken. Carl Buddig beef bags, Doritos, smoked soup, Colombian food, HOKAs, FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):2 (10s):And I'm Gina Kalichi.1 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.2 (15s):And at 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.1 (21s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (34s):Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. It is. I Gina reporting to you live. I mean, it's live to me, but it's not live to you because you most definitely aren't hearing it in the exact moment. I'm saying it, but you get the idea. It's Monday night, I'm here at my house sitting in my room where I always record when I talked to boss and I'm I'm, I'm coming on here to tell you that. Hmm. Do you know that expression inside baseball?2 (1m 15s):I don't understand when people say, oh, that's too inside baseball. Because for me, all I care about is the inside of something. I don't even like baseball. I'd love to be inside baseball. You want to show me where they get the dirt off their cleats. Great. You want to show me what kind of savvy they have to use on their cracked hands from rubbing? Oh, that says this is going to sound sexual. I don't mean it that way, but from holding the bat. Yeah. I want to see that you want to, you want to tell me about contract negotiations? I mean, I want to hear that stuff. I want to hear that stuff more than I want to hear about, or, you know, like actually watch baseball anyway.2 (1m 59s):I'm, I'm bringing this phrase up because I've never understood why people, don't, what people think it's bad to be inside baseball. And also by way of telling you that today's episode is going to be a little inside baseball. We record every week. We interview people every week. And at the very beginning, we had so many interviews stacked up that it was months between when we would record somebody and when it actually aired. But once all of that stack got aired, now we pretty much go week to week and that's fine, unless, and until we have a cancellation or two, as the case is for us right now, we had two back-to-back cancellations.2 (2m 52s):So one time when we had this, I put, I repaired an old episode, which I thought was really a great episode. And I'm really glad I repaired it. And then a couple of times we've aired episodes with just BAAs and I talking with no interview. And the reason I like to put something up is because personally, when I listened to podcasts and people take a week off, I really hate that. I really hate when a podcast I'm really used to listening to, you know, coming out on a certain day and like, that's the day I'm gonna, Ooh, it's Tuesday. I get to whatever, walk my dog and listen to my favorite podcast.2 (3m 33s):I hate it when those people take a vacation, but that's what I did. I took a vacation last week and boss was going to record one solo, but her interview canceled. And then the person that we're supposed to speak to tomorrow canceled. So honestly, we're probably gonna have the same problem next week, unless something magical happens. And we're able to interview somebody else before this weekends and who I'm saying all this to say, we do have an episode today. It is not previously aired material. It is boss and I talking, but it is not an interview.2 (4m 14s):And if that's not your jam that I get it, you can, you can just skip this one. Maybe this is not, maybe this is not the one for you, but if you're like me and you are inside baseball and you like things that are inside baseball. And by the way, I mean, it's not like it's inside baseball in the sense that we're talking about, you know, like the platform that we're hosting our podcasts, it's not actually really inside baseball. It's just not, it's just not our typical episode. Anyway, I also want to take this opportunity to think we have actually kind of a surprising number of listeners in other countries.2 (4m 54s):And I have never done something that I've always wanted to do, which is acknowledge all of these wonderful listeners. And so I'm going to do that right now. First we have New Zealand and I happen to know the person who listens to us from New Zealand or at least one of the people. And he Sean Spratt. And he went to theater school with us. And one day we'll have him on the podcast, but thank you, Sean Spratt for your listenership. Very much appreciated. We have listeners in Spain, the United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Singapore, Russia. Although not for the last couple of months.2 (5m 34s):If you know what I mean. France, Jordan, Nepal, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Israel, Virgin islands, pork bowl, Rico, Mexico, Austria, Sweden, Palestine, the Netherlands, Morocco, South Korea, Japan, Finland. I heard Finland has great coffee. I'd like to go there someday. Bangladesh, Uganda, Slovakia, Poland, Ireland, Indonesia, and BA. Right? Thank you to all of you, whoever you are out there listening to our little podcast. I appreciate you.2 (6m 15s):I do. I appreciate you deeply. I am also going to take this opportunity to recognize some fabulous comments that people have left on apple podcasts in the form of reviews. Something. I also greatly appreciate Larkin and Ellis says what a fun show to listen to and to have communion with other theater folks. So many of us survived, thrived or crashed. That's true. Afterschool and hearing tales of everyone's experience brings such humanity to the process. Jen and Gina are delightful and treat each, each guest with such grace, highly recommend. Thank you, Larkin Ellis.2 (6m 57s):Next. We have Zoe incredibly warm, funny and fascinating. These hosts get the best out of their guests. If you are involved in any part of the acting business, this will be a fascinating podcast for you. If you went to any theater school, this could be an opportunity for immense healing and processing things you didn't even know needed more attention. I laughed so hard. I cried. It was bad. It was better than cats. Thank you, Sophie. All right, BJP. Oh, that's I know who this is. This is Brian Brian Polak, who has also a great podcast. I mean, he had an episode on ours, but he's the host of the subtext podcast, which is all about playwrights.2 (7m 38s):And very interesting. If you haven't listened to it, please do his latest urban. I don't know if it's his actual latest, but one of his most recent ones features Tracy Letts. So that's cool. Anyway, Brian says not only are the interviews always free range and fascinating, but the conversations between Jen and Gina that begin each episode are warm and fun. It's like catching up with old friends every new time. Every time a new episode comes out. Thank you. Brian Love that. Scott says this podcast is such a gift, exclamation point. Anyone who has dabbled in the fine arts can relate to the conversations that the hosts and guests are discussing. I would also go as far as to say, listening to this podcast is like having a free therapist, especially if you are embarking on a career in the performing arts.2 (8m 25s):Thank you, Scott. Lovely Scott. Oh, and then here's one I wrote for myself. Yes I did. This is an inside baseball moment. I wrote my own review because I feel at times very desperate to get reviews. So I wrote one for myself. Love the way it is to interrogate the psychological makeup of actors and others who pursue an education at a conservatory. Thank you, Gina. Thank you for your comments, Gina. What a sweet girl. You are. Jimmy McDermott says these ladies dig deep. Thanks Jimmy. Somebody who calls themselves four lifetimes ago, love that love listening to this podcast.2 (9m 8s):As it leads me down memory lane, I'm also able to reflect on my own time, spent at theater school and what it meant to me and how it shaped me into who I am today. Gina and Jen are fantastic hosts, very welcoming with thoughtful questions. Thank you for lifetimes ago that we've got eat Beth James, this pod delightfully dives into fascinating memories and lessons from dream chasers in their youth. A must listen for everyone who has even entertained a life in theater, yay to Jen and Jayna for bringing this quirky subject to life in such a real and interesting way. Thank you. E Beth James, who was nice. Happy in Galveston.2 (9m 48s):Just finished listening to y'all's interview of my son's Seiler. Oh yeah. Okay. So this is sailor's mama y'all did an amazing, oh, I'm going to read it like I'm from Texas. Just finished listening to y'all's interview with my son, Tyler Siler, not Tyler. Tyler is a very Texas named Seiler. Of course y'all did an amazing job. I've known him for 47 years and I learned so much about him. I never thought for a minute that he'd be bullied at theater school, not my Sattler, but it was a real relief to know it didn't happen. Something he didn't mention is that he was a year ahead in school and contracted a ripper in case mano right before leaving for college. So he started college in Chicago as a 17 year old with the case of mano and Dave.2 (10m 32s):Great. It was really fun. Hearing him recount the shows he was in that bear costume was the worst. I'll look forward to hearing interviews with Kevin and PJ. Great. And we did interviews with Kevin and PJ. So I hope you liked those Mrs. Siler. Thomas' mom. All right. You got the idea. I love these nice reviews. Thanks to everybody who gave one who wrote one. And if you are not among those who have read, reviewed us rated or reviewed us, what are you waiting for? Literally? What are you right this second? What are you waiting for? A pause.2 (11m 12s):This rambling that I'm doing and go leave us a review. Okay. Thanks. Appreciate it. All right. I think I've, I think I've yammered long enough. Please enjoy this conversation. Or actually to be honest, it's like three different conversations that it edit it together. Please enjoy this chit chat sesh with me and buzz love you. I'm sorry to hear about your lasagna. I made the word, it was disgusting.2 (11m 53s):I a leftover rotisserie chicken and I Googled like, what can I do with my leftover rotisserie chicken? And I saw this thing make a lasagna with mush. It happened to be all the ingredients that I had and needed to use mushrooms, spinach and rotisserie chicken. Now I will say, I thought to myself that doesn't sound like a good lasagna, like rotisserie chicken. Yeah. I don't know mushrooms are okay. It's finishes. Okay. But the rotisserie chicken and then it was a white sauce and girl, it was, I mean, simply inevitable. And I'm the person in the family who, because I make the food, even if it's not good, I eat it because I spent a lot of time making that, you know, I had this one had to make its way to the, to the trash and media Mente.2 (12m 38s):Nobody, even nobody else. Even my son is lactose intolerant. So he really can't use something like that. Anyway, I had made him a special version. He can eat cheddar, I guess, letters like certain cheeses that are made to him. A version of it, the head cheddar cheese, he actually said it was really good. Maybe it was better than, you know, because it had more like Tang to it. But that's the thing you need to have some acidity. This had zero acidity. It was just right. That's very interesting. I was thinking about that on my walk over here. Cause I saw your posts and I was like, yeah, I think that white sauce is really hard to pull off. Like yeah, unless maybe you have to have like tons of butter and then, but then the rotisserie chicken, which reminds me of a story.2 (13m 24s):So my, my mom, okay. After Thanksgiving, right at we'd have this Turkey carcass. Right. And then she'd make the Turkey soup. Okay. But one year my uncle, aunt and uncle came from San Francisco, you know, they're from San Francisco. So they wanted to smoke and brine the Turkey. Okay. Let me tell you something. If you've ever had a smoked Turkey soup, it's the most disgusting Turkey, Turkey noodle soup. I mean, I ate it and I was like, mom, what, what, what, what what's happening? And she was like, well, I just, I said, wait, this is the smoked Turkey. You can't have smoked soup.2 (14m 6s):It's like the word wait, was your mama? No, no, but she, okay. So my mom was not ever like literally we, I grew up on McDonald's and I don't know if I've told the budding beef story here. Okay. So kind of one thing. So our lunch has kids. Oh my God. It's no wonder that I have food issues. Like our lunches kids and I don't look, she was doing the best she could. I don't, I I'm. I'm just sick. It's a travesty. What went on. So we had in a lunch bag, a whole bag of fake Karl budding beef bags, which are, which are just fake beef. I don't know if you've ever seen it in the store.2 (14m 46s):Go in the cold cut section. I don't even know if it's legal to sell this shit anymore. But they had Carl budding beef, which wasn't real beef. Yeah. Oh, it was like a vegan thing or no, no, no. It's like spam, like processed beef. So like processed. Yeah. Like processed beef and beef beef. Did she say beef bag? Yeah. Okay. So it's in a bag in a bag and, and there's like 20, probably 24 slices in a bag. My mom would put the whole bag in our lunch. So we'd have 20 and it was salty. No wonder. I mean like it's all, she would just throw the whole bag in.2 (15m 29s):It was probably $2 or bag at that time. So she would throw the whole bag of beef in and then yeah. Well she wasn't, I mean, my mom was literally like, let me just work and fuck these people. And then, okay. So that was that a bad and it wasn't like back then they didn't have the small snack size bags. So it was like a snack ish size bag of Doritos, which we would wrap each Dorito and a piece of beef. Oh God. Okay. So Doritos. Okay. It was Doritos, a beef fat. I'd be like, mom, there's no food. And she'd be like, grab yourself a beef bag for lunch. Be fat. Just a bag of obese.2 (16m 9s):Yeah. And it was so that it was so salty. I remember it. Okay. So, so I'd have the Doritos and the beef bag and it have been so thirsty after lunch. Well, no wonder I have like I high blood pressure. I'm like, this is, this is the impetus for the whole thing. Then it would be a Capri sun to wash it down and then dessert for dessert. It was literally okay. My mom thought she was doing this great thing by getting hostess, went through a phase of doing hostess light. I don't know if you remember, they had light and they had light cupcakes. So it was like a plastic version of their real co she would throw one of those in there. That was my lunch for probably 10 years.2 (16m 51s):Well, every day, like, yeah. Do you ever, could you ever by hotline? Yeah. So Friday, sometimes the hot lunch was literally the square pizza and tater tots. Right, right. Certainly were not, there was no chance of you getting nutrition. I had no vegetables or fruit ever, like ever. And then when she would cook and my dad, you know, he didn't do shit. So, but when she would cook, it would be like weird shit. Like she would make vats of like beef goulash. She's Colombian. What is she making beef goulash for? It was why didn't she make Colombian food? Not, it's not my favorite thing. It's a lot of, some of it's good, but she, she wanted to just assimilate and fuck her past understandably, but also it's a lot of starches.2 (17m 41s):It takes a lot of time. It's a lot of like flowery doughy, everything. So it wouldn't have been that much more nutrition, but it might have tasted better. Yeah, dude, it was, and the goulash would be frozen. Oh my God. She would freeze the goulash. And it was egg noodles. And this meat that had the strange sauce, like tangy, speaking of tangy, but not tangy in the greatest way. And then we'd have to, and I'd be like dad, where, and she was always out of town. I'd be like, dad, I'm not eating this. So we'd order pizza. That was the first. Okay, well this is, this is really sounding so familiar to me. So when I was growing up, my, my mother who worked more than full time, came home every single night and made dinner.2 (18m 24s):And you know, she had her repertoire, but I mean, she, she made dinner from, there was nothing she didn't even use. Like, and they didn't really have too much of it then, you know, nothing was really pre-made. She, she, she made dinner and of course I always hated it because it was something like, you know, she cooked fish or she, you know, she had these weird she's from New Mexico. So she has these looks, she puts all of us in her spaghetti sauce. It's just like some weird things like that. So there's lots of things that she made that I didn't like, but I so relate to it now. And I relate to your mother freezing the goulash because it's just like every night I have to cook dinner every night.2 (19m 6s):And of course I have this panel of critics. That's just like everything I make disgusting. If it's, if it's nutritious in any way, if it's not nutritious, then, then they're really happy with it. Oh my God. That sounds horrible. It's horrible. So I've had this very like passive aggressive relationship and resentful relationship with cooking for my family. We end up ordering out, like I would say, well, definitely two nights a week, but some weeks three. And it's, I hate it. I just, I hate absolutely everything about it. And I also relate to being on the receiving end of food that, you know, it's just like, it's a no win situation.2 (19m 47s):It really is. I mean, I think the only thing to do is like, when kids are like two and three, get them to start cooking and be like, fuck it. You're on your own because you know, so my son can really cook. He can really cook, but he's low on the motivation. He's like, that's, you know, that's kinda your job and he's not, he's not wrong. I mean, you know, as much as I, he's not wrong, it is sort of my job. But anyway, yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's not good, but okay. How do we get because of my lasagna? Oh, the lasagna. So yeah, I, I saw, I heard that and I, I, I read that this morning and I was like, Ooh, but the good news is that the chicken? I mean the chicken, well, I guess the chicken would have ended up in the garbage anyway, but did, did the dog eat any of it?2 (20m 31s):No. You don't give that to them. I gave, well, I gave no, I gave the dog like the skin of the chicken that I wasn't using on the middle of Sunday. But I forgot to mention, I made it on Sunday, which is the day that you so graciously ordered my family pizza, which is why we didn't meet lasagna on Sunday. We ate it last night, but then we, it was gross. But on Sunday, I guess everybody have to tell everybody where we texting or talking on the phone phone about a funny audition situation. Yeah. And I was telling you, like Aaron had a stomach bug. My daughter had her broken arm. My son, oldest child always has some pains.2 (21m 14s):Oh yeah. Yeah. He's like, I woke up, I walked out the door. The first thing I see is just blood all over the bathroom. Mostly has been going on for 30 minutes. It looked like a crime scene in there. I mean, it was just one thing after the other. So you sent me pizza. Yeah. I don't even feel that. And you sent these something we'd never had before. It's wings, boneless wings, but oh my God, those were a huge hit. So yeah, because you know what my thing is because I'm so greedy, Gina is that you don't want the bone getting in the way of the food. So just eat the goddamn, like who needs the bone?2 (21m 54s):Like, fuck the bone. Like you want the food? I don't go in for like ribs. I don't go in for anything with a bone. I'm like, I mean, rotisserie chicken. Okay. But I just take the honk of breastfeed off. I don't need a bone getting in my way is what I'm telling you. Okay. But a bone, like, honestly, you might want to reconsider that because food meats cooked with Bonin are usually more flavorful and tender. True. That true debt to debt. So like, I think you're right. Like, but I also am known to love a dry as fuck piece of chicken. I don't yeah. The chicken breasts without anything on it. Yeah. I, there is some weird thing about me that I, and also, you know, which is sad that I love chicken so much because my doctor told me there's no nutritional value in chicken.2 (22m 42s):Like, like literally, yeah. The protein, it's like a very small amount of protein in chicken. It's like garbage, garbage it's air. Like basically. So we're killing these chickens and we're thinking we're eating, being healthy. And really she's like, just eat fish like that. You, you just, chicken is not. And I was so sad when, cause she said eat before eight. If you're not going to eat beef, do fish. But like you don't count on a chicken for your protein is what Joe, Kayla, the chicken damn that's up ending my entire, we ate chicken all the time. I'm always like, that's the healthier thing to give my kids. No, I know. And like, I, it was like, I wish it was different, but chicken is like a non issue.2 (23m 23s):Like a it's like not really a thing. No. And I was like, well, you know what? Like chick Chick-fil-A is going to be up in arms about this big that's right. And what about eggs? Can we have that's all protein. All. Okay. But she was like, literally I think she said, and I wish we had so many listeners that they would like write in and tell me I was wrong. So if you are listening and tell me that I'm wrong. But like, I think she said that like, there's more protein in like four florets of broccoli than a chicken breast. Oh, that isn't the same. This is reminding me of it's reminding me of when I found out that the reason that we all thought breakfast was the most important meals because the cereal companies put off that how much of our life is just a complete lie foisted.2 (24m 18s):Well, I advertising you asked Adam McKay all of it, all of it. All right. We are so influenced by every single thing. Yeah. So anyway that, yeah, I know. I know that. I know that's really true for me. I know 1000% that I will buy something with prettier packaging. Even if it's not as good quality as the other, that's it, it all goes back also to my, my Charleston chew a story. I never told you this. So what? I was little, another something fell. Oh, okay. When I was little, my mom said you can get any candy bar at the store. Right.2 (24m 58s):And my greedy ass was like, I'm going to get the biggest candy bar. The biggest one. I I'm going to get the biggest one because I was greedy. Right. And also food was loved to me. Right. So, I mean, that's the truth. So I was like, I'm going. So we went to the store and I remember looking Snickers that I'm like, look at that motherfucking Charleston shoe. It's like 10 feet long. But I didn't know. I never had a Charleston shoe. So my sister got probably something reasonable received, something like that. I got this huge Charleston shoe thinking. I fucking beat the system. I con this bitch out of a huge, it tasted like it was like a strawberry vanilla coaster.2 (25m 39s):Right. Just ripped out my retainer. Like that's all I was like, that was my first lesson in greed that in, you know, like the, so there's other stories. But like that, that, that story was like, oh my God, you can't trust. So we've learned this morning, Gina, you can't trust a chicken for your protein and you can't fucking trust a Charleston shoe or a white sauce or a white sauce. That was the first lesson this morning. That was the first lesson. Yeah. Anyway, how is miles? His birthday know? It was really good. It was okay. So there's this place in, in Pasadena that I, my friend works at and she's the funniest.2 (26m 20s):I mean, she's like, we're friendly. We're not like good buddies, but she, she works at this place called noodle street. Okay. And you, and it's not noodles. And co which miles told everyone, I was taking him to noodles and fucking co for his birthday. I was like, is that a fast? It's like pancakes. I'm like miles. You can't tell people that I'm not that ridiculous. Not that there's any, well, there is wrong with that. Like, I can't take you there for your birthday. Like that for a celebration ticket, injured husband to Panera. I mean, some people probably do it look, but whatever it's like on the Pinera level, but noodle street is a handmade noodle company in Pasadena. And my friend Christina works there.2 (27m 0s):Who's hilarious. And I wanted to take him there. So we went to noodle street and it was one of those things where we're like, Christina, just give us a bunch of food. Right. She literally, there were like 10 dishes. I was like, it was so much food that miles miles does the same. And I love him. And, and look, I obviously have food issues, but he will eat until he throws up sometimes like that, that, or almost like, I've never, I haven't done that. And since I was a child, I don't think. But like he, he can't and it's not like we just so good. He can't stop himself. There's a problem area.2 (27m 40s):And so this happened at Ethiopian once where he literally threw up and had to do something in his mouth, you know what I mean? Like he can't stop himself. So he just went crazy and it's really like, they used, you know, she uses it's it's Asian fusion and there's all different, cool spices. Oh my God. So I didn't want to be the jerk. That's like, like censoring my husband, but, or like trying to food shaman, but I'm like, miles, you gotta slow down. Like this is not going to go. Well, like when he busted into the ramen, the beef, the pork res braised ramen after like six other dishes, I was like, oh dude. And so then he was, he was, he had a problem.2 (28m 21s):He didn't actually have the problem, but we were, so we, we had to close and we were going to go get ice cream and he's like, I can't do it. Luckily we walked. Right. So we could move a little bit. I was fine, but we don't do really. We don't do presence. So like, not that we don't either. Yeah. Because everything you buy is sort of like, I mean, you know, you, you have the money for what you need and then if you have extra money, it's usually for things that are going to be urgent, like you have to fix something in your car, right. Oh, for me, it's like any extra money goes towards my Hoka recovery sandals and my Hoka. Okay. What's a mile sent me a video of you doing a Hoka dance.2 (29m 2s):What is a Hoka? Okay. So whole, because our shoes that I believe hookah Ona, Ona, which is one, one, but it's, I believe Hawaiian, Japanese influent look, I'm ignorant. I don't know. But it is not pronounced one, one. That's all I know it's own. I own a, and so Hoka on it own, it is the name of a company they make for me, with my plantar fasciitis in my right foot and just getting old Sebas shoes. Like I'm wearing my hookup. I'm wearing them right now. You can't see, but like, they are there. Some of them are, but ugly like platform. Like, like they look like a platform sneakers sometimes, but like, like the janky brand, but they aren't, they are there's walking shoes and trail shoes.2 (29m 52s):And I tried to run a them and it's a little clunky, but their soul light and they're really expensive, but they also make a recovery slide. Okay. So this is a very Californian situation, but in your, my floors are so hard and because it's fake wood right. In our apartment and I have bad feet. So I, you know, feet problems right now. So my doctor was like, you cannot walk barefoot. And it's so warm in California. Barefoot is the worst you can't work or people shouldn't walk. You should not walk barefoot on hard surfaces. No, no, no. I know it's not a good deal. So even so in California, it's so warm.2 (30m 34s):You're like, I'll just put on my flip flops. Terrible idea. Flip-flops should be abolished unless they are orthotic flip-flops this is partially how I got into my problem. So I have higher arches, but even if you have regular arches, my friends, you need support on your feet, especially as you get older. So I didn't know this. It's not even like flip flops or the new high heels, like what we shouldn't be doing, you know? Oh my God, that's insane. And my acupuncture has been saying this Liz I'm so sorry. I'd never listened to you. She said this for years, I saw her 10 years ago. And she was saying this, so recovery slides are Hoka makes a recovery slide, which is basically like a slide, like an Adidas or van slide.2 (31m 16s):But they're like super orthopedic. They're not pretty, I mean, minor kind of pretty cause they're blue. But like, they look like, yeah, regular slides, but they're super tall. And this made out of this really light, plastic and rubber, and they are so comfortable for when you come home, you take off your shoes and you don't go barefoot, you go in your recovery. So it's like, how shoes, how shoes? But like for like people would stuff. Yeah. They're really expensive. Like hookahs are like $175, $200 shoes. And the recovery slides are one 50. It's not cheap. Like I had to save up, we used our fucking credit card points for my Hoka collection.2 (31m 57s):Like that's what I'm saying. Like that, that's what it's for. Right. So anyway, so my jam and like, you know, people, you know, like I feel like Eddie Vetter is a big Hoka fan. It's like a hippie kind of thing. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, you know, I'm sure any better has a good need for support. Just like the rest of us so old, like we are. But also I was gonna say like, I actually didn't know, my husband sent you that video. That's hilarious. What? Oh, so cute. He's only ever texted me twice, but both times he started with this is miles, which is adorable. And I want him to be like, I know I have your number saved into my phone, 55.2 (32m 39s):So anyway. Yeah. I think he, I think he, you know, I think he thinks that you're the greatest thing ever, which I love because you are, and I'm glad that you have somebody who thinks you're the greatest thing. Oh, it's much better than what I used to have. Yeah. I know much better. The diametric opposite. Opposite. Yeah. No, if people like, no, I was telling someone's people in LA that are like younger than us, but approaching 40 are always like dating in LA is the worst. And I'm like, it is, it's really bad here. It's really, really bad. And I would tell them stories about when I was here in oh six and it was the worst or oh five.2 (33m 22s):And it was the worst. Is it really bad? Just because of the problem of like everybody's posturing. Cause it's like that in New York, I think to people, you know, people are at that phase of life where they're really just trying to make something of themselves. And it's a lot about like getting to the next, whatever. Yeah. I think it's what you talk about, which is just straight up sexism where like the men who are okay. So no one, my friend is like 38. I think she said my co-working friend. And she was just saying that like the men, her age, won't date, 38 year olds, they will only date 28 year olds. So she has to date 68 year olds or 58 year olds.2 (34m 5s):Okay. All right. That's the problem. It's so boring. I'm like, you know what? Fuck, this it's diagnostic too. Like when you, when you read about people, you know, the Leonardo DiCaprio's of the world who only ever it's like, okay, but so that's, that's either because you are psychologically, emotionally, whatever yourself, still 20. So you need, or it's because you are so narcissistic that you need somebody who's docile and who you can basically tell what, you know, whatever your garbage is too. And they'll believe you because they're so young. I always knew that about Leonardo DiCaprio, but I just recently read about somebody else who it's like, it's like everybody it's like Larry, David, it's not, it's not even like, like sexy young youngish dudes or middle-aged dudes.2 (34m 53s):It's like everyone. And, and, and it's just so other dudes will say, oh my God, look at that dude. He got that young chick women don't give a fuck. I said, the other thing is it's. It's interesting. Cause when I worked for Nick cage, he married someone 20 years younger. She was awesome. I loved her. I love that. He's still married. No, I loved Alice. I loved her and it wasn't her fault, but it was a really apparently a match that, you know, didn't last. But what I realized in getting to know Alice was that it's like, right. I it's not, it's not her fault.2 (35m 33s):Like she, she's just trying to live her life. And she's also 2020. I was basically five years old. So like let's not get right. So anyway, I also know, like I try not to shame the women in those situations because I'm also like, yeah, but, but it's just a bad situation. I'm just like the And minus your shirt, you did some change.2 (36m 15s):I did a costume change. I was listening to God. I love Leslie Odom Jr. In Hamilton so much. Oh, have we never talked about that? I have never seen Hamilton or heard the music. Me neither until like six months ago when Gisa gave me a ticket to Hamilton in LA and it was not obviously Leslie, it was not that cast, but I thought I would hate it. Like I literally was like, I cannot do this. Like I, and then despite my best efforts to hate it for some reason, and to just want to be a hater, I fell in love with that musical, like fell in love.2 (36m 57s):And I was like, I'm in I'm all in. I don't, I cannot explain. I think it was also because I was in a place where I was like, holy shit, people make stuff like this, it's it. He takes the acting, the singing, the dancing. I was like, this is like, why we have, you know, this is the best of humanity, the very, very, very, very best. And then I got obsessed with the original soundtrack because it's, it's just, they're they're just brilliant. And the guy who plays Aaron Burr is Leslie Odom Jr. Who I didn't know from shit. Right. Obsessed. Like the guy, Aaron Burr is my favorite character in the whole show. He's the guy who kills Hamilton.2 (37m 38s):Right. So yeah. Well Lin Manuel Miranda did. I'm not sure if it was all of the music, but certainly some of the music for, in condo. Have you seen in content? Yeah. So I have such a weird relationship with that movie. I was curious about that, considering that it's about Columbia. Well, the thing is like, and I think people think I'm crazy for saying this, but like they never say it's Columbia. Like they never, they like, they, they have some of the soups they use in the colors they use for the, the, the Colombian flag colors. And like, but they never are specific. And it's also written by so Lin, Manuel is not Colombian. And also Shariece Castro Smith who wrote and developed it is Cuban.2 (38m 20s):What do we do? I have to take issue with, they do say that it's Columbia, but it said in the lyrics, I said, oh, okay. I mean, but it's certainly not referenced like how many times Mexico is referenced cocoa. And I did have that thought like, well, Lin, Manuel Miranda is not collided, but the, but the music is really good. Music is brilliant. And I also think it's a huge step in the right direction. I just, I like wanted to love it more is one of those things. And that's a thing. And also I actually loved west side story. I didn't see it yet. See it, and let's have a talk about it.2 (39m 1s):I loved it. And people think also I'm insane for that. I was like the acting in west side fucking story is like, it's like a masterclass in this shit. Everyone, every single character I've heard that. I, I really haven't heard too many people not liking it. You know, people have find the musical very problematic and mama mama. And of course, of course everything is problematic. Like everything. Okay. Everything is so problematic. I know I just, yesterday saw the news that Pamela Anderson is going to be Roxie Hart and I you're making the same face that I made.2 (39m 42s):And then I saw today on Twitter people saying like, Hey, you know, this is a person who was recently publicly humiliate re humiliated after what re what she originally suffered, which is tantamount to, I guess it's the same it's revenge porn. Yeah. Let's give her this. And also Chicago has always cast stunt done stunt casting. That's that's Erika Jayne. The real Housewives of Beverly Hills was the last person who party. I'm not getting you. Oh my God. Yeah, no, I, I, I think it says, yeah. And also you're right.2 (40m 22s):It's like, why not? Like why don't we might as well just like, let her have it. And also she couldn't be fucking good. I don't know from this lady, it could be great. And also like it's Chicago, it's not Shakespeare. Right? Public. I have such a fear. It's funny Shakespeare at the public story. You do well, you might have to tell it cause we might have no interviews today. That's right. We can talk anyway. So I love the Hamilton song, wait for it, which is Aaron Burr's song. And he's talking about his family. And anyway, I just wanted to hate it so much.2 (41m 4s):Gina. I wanted to like be the one person that was like, this is garbage and this is, I really wanted that. And then when I saw it, I was weeping openly. And the people next to me were like, cause they had seen it. Everyone's seen it a million times. Right. So people who go to the LA show have seen it like on Broadway or like the Disney plus online situation. I didn't see shit. It was my first experience. And I was like, this is the greatest thing that ever was ever made. It's just, okay, I'm going to have to watch it. I I've been a hater for no good reason. And I should probably watch it. I think the thing that was off putting to me initially is like how much people liked it and how much like, I mean, just like older, white people, I just thought, okay, well you're really excited to hear rapping in this anachronistic way, but I, I think many, many people who I respect greatly think it's one of the best pieces of I did.2 (42m 8s):And I also just think like, you're right. Like I think it's all a combo platter, like super, super, super, super white people. Love it. And also, and all people love it too. Right. I mean, girl, I don't know. I just feel like, yeah, that was, it was, it was brilliant. So like on my spare time, like I listened to the soundtrack and I never thought I would do that. It's a very motivating, like I oh, okay. And also like if it's even one 18 super true to history, which I think it is super true in a way, then I've learned more than I ever have about his American history. So like, oh my God.2 (42m 49s):That's that is, I believe that I learned what kind of learner I am when I was in ninth grade. Yeah. Ninth grade. I took a very hard history class. It was honors world civilization. Oh my God. I remember that class. I took the same class and got exams were oral. What? So the exams were oral. So basically you had to say the hits, the broad points of the history of civilization from beginning to now.2 (43m 32s):Sounds very scary. It wasn't at all. Oh, I memorized it like a monologue and I freaking learned the history of world civilization that way. And it was news to me that I could have read that textbook a million times. I could have studied flashcards. So the cows came home. I would net I got a perfect score on this exam. And it's because I learn kinesthetically. Yeah. I need to have a story and I need to be involved with yes. I mean to the one number one way I learn is teaching others. And, and the funny, because I, I hate teaching. I hate teaching my husband.2 (44m 13s):That's a very, I should say I hate teaching my husband, but like teaching people that, that don't make me insane. I, I learn it. Like I remember I was like the best trainer at my hostess job because I loved it. I was like, oh, Hey one, you get to train people how to do it the way you like it to be done. And also you get to relearn it. And also to refresher, I loved being the trainer. I was like, I will do the training. I will do the training. Interesting. Very interesting. Okay. So what is your story about what'd you say you had a story about, oh, oh, oh, oh shit.2 (44m 53s):We are old. What the fuck it was about? I, all I keep thinking of is Charleston fucking shoe, but I told that story, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute on it. Oh my God. We'd have to replay the fucking tape. Yo to little oh, oh Hamilton. Before we were talking about what was the first thing we were talking about. And I looked and I said it was when I was doing, see, we were distracted. We were both checking our emails, the email, when you, right. Well, anyway, I have a lot of shame stories, so it could be any kind of same story. So it was, oh, I said Monica times.2 (45m 34s):No, it was w it had something to do with like acting or Hamilton or I had a no, or, oh God. Or maybe you thought maybe it was maybe when I started talking about in content, maybe you said you had a story about Hamilton. No. And console, what side story? The acting all it. Well, I will tell you that, like, there is something about obviously the pandemic that has reignited my absolute awe for performers, that nail shit. Like I absolute all I I'm like, especially people that can sing and dance and act at the same time.2 (46m 15s):I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? I don't give a shit. So, oh. And the other thing that I was going to say about Hamilton was in the audience. People are like, like poo-pooing the LA production. They're like critiquing it at, at, at the, I was gonna say halftime at intermission. They're like talking shit about it. And I just said, the ladies next to me, because look, they've become so nitpicky because they've seen it for a thousand times in every different place and all that. And I'm like, I just turned to them. I was sitting by myself, she got me a solo ticket because they couldn't get tickets together with her sister and whatever. And the two ladies had clearly seen it. And the guy over here had been like, seen it like a million times.2 (46m 57s):And they were like talking to each other about like, oh, it's not that, you know, th this, the Hamilton's not that strong. And this is, and I said to me, I said to myself, and then I said to them, I said, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Can you do that? Let me just tell you something. Our fat ass is sitting over here. These people are throwing chairs around on stage also while singing and while remembering Lear rap lyrics, like shut up. Yeah. Shut up. Oh, by the way. So what's, how are you your rewatch of drag race? Okay. Much better. So, so I think at the time I, I obviously was youngers.2 (47m 38s):What were unseasoned? What 13, 18. I don't know. I think it's 13, which I'm crazy. So at the time, when I first watched the first season, whatever year that was in, I did not have any appreciation for healing of any kind. And I also didn't. I was so entrenched in my little world in Los Angeles that like I thought I saw drag race as a gag. Right. It was all a gag. A RuPaul was a gag. I didn't take it seriously. I was like super at 20 in my late twenties, early thirties. And it's really good. And it's also really, I'm not, so, yeah.2 (48m 18s):Right. I'm not so interested in the drama. Right. I'm interested in the artistry of the whole thing and how they create the costumes and the characters. And this time watching it, I'm like, oh, these people are brilliant. They're, they're brave and brilliant humans that are doing a really brave thing come that has come out of the need to sort of the, the revolutionary act of not wanting to shrink. Right. Of like gonna kill themselves if they don't do this. And I have to say, like, I only rewatched the first half of the first season, because then I got hooked into this Brazilian crime drama, which is a documentary about fucking crazy shit in Brazil.2 (49m 3s):Brazil is a terrible, I could never live in Brazil, but anyway, so, so drag race. Now I have such a new found respect for the performers. And also as, as a revolutionary drag, as a revolutionary act of self-preservation yes, yes. Agreed. And if you want to skip to the good stuff you could skip to season five, season five has, I'm sending myself a cast, quite a cast. And, and as time goes on, not only does the show get better because it has a bigger budget, but also Ru Paul is honing in on what he's, it's actually very, it reminded me a lot of your understanding of the meaning of our podcast as time has gone by.2 (49m 51s):And you've been saying for a long time, it's a service we're doing and it's offering healing to people. I think we're Paul figure that out, you know, throughout the course of, and he's, he leans much more heavily into people because almost everybody who is on there has been traumatized, abused, kicked out of their house. All the shit. Parents don't know that they're on drag race. Parents don't know that they do drag P they think it's. Yeah. So I think you'll really like that aspect of it. If you, you know, if you, if you like it enough to stick with it. And I also just think that I, there it is impossible. This is the conundrum of life.2 (50m 32s):It's impossible to not be a self-centered asshole when you're in your twenties and thirties or late thirties. Right. Right. Right. And so I look back at some of the shit I did and said, and thought about other people and their cultures and their, and I thought, oh my God, how dare I? I was, I, I was not, look, I'm not saying an awful person, but really the audacity of youth to be like, yeah, you're not cool. Or you, you, this doesn't benefit me in any way. So I'm not going to pay it any mind. In fact, I'm going to shit talk. It just, I mean, it's summed up with my John C. Riley story of never having seen Punchdrunk glove and talking shit about it to the star or no, not punch drunk, love to the star of boogie nights, the audacity of, of, of, of my youth and trauma and whatever to lie.2 (51m 29s):So blatantly and do it and lie about a mean thing. What are you, my take on that story has always been, you felt so less than yeah. With him. Yeah. That you, that you, which is not typical for you, that you, that you found a way to make him feel less than you. Oh yeah. It's not typical, but I do it. I do it with my husband all the time, which is like, if I'm, I'm now going through, I'm doing all this deep, deep trauma work in therapy and it's, and I'm also gonna start, I'm going to do an MDM age journey on it. So, so, but I'm doing all this stuff is coming up.2 (52m 10s):And I w when I am it's, so you've said it I've said it hurt people, hurt people, but it's very more specific than that. What happens to me is I sense it. I say the same thing when my husband hurts my feelings and it's really not my husband, it's, my feelings are hurt because I'm going through trauma, we're in a pandemic. And we live in a S in an end-stage capitalism. Like that's what's going on, but my husband is the trigger. And I will literally say things like I'm going to leave and not come back. And it is because I want to leave my trauma. I want to leave this shit show and go somewhere where I don't have to look at my trauma.2 (52m 52s):And I mean, that's exactly what I want to do. And so we have to, but that's what I do with John C. Riley. It's like, I, I'm not enough. I hate myself. And so I'm wanting to destroy you the way I feel destroyed. Literally. Yeah. It, it comes up so fucked up. I saw on the media about watching Tinder swindler.2 (53m 34s):Did you watch it? Yes. Okay. What it comes down to ladies and gentlemen is a study in why people hate women. It's really sad. It's like, really? But, you know, he targets women who are wanting love. Is this a documentary or a fictional documentary? Okay. And there might be a reenactments, but it's a documentary about eight, eight guy who Swindells women. But what you, what I was left with was okay. He picks on women who want love, who also want a man who is not broke and not, they don't have to pay his phone bill.2 (54m 16s):Right. Cause that's the experience of a lot of us. So when he, of course, when he, this swindler presents himself as, as rich as hell, that doesn't hurt. But then what you get is the backlash of people saying, well, that bitch was a gold Digger. She deserved to be swindled. So they got a huge backlash for being victims of this guy. It's horrific because if you weren't a gold Digger, then you wouldn't. So it comes down to, if you want to look at it as I couldn't have pure fun with it, because it was at the expense of women looking for love, and then being blamed as the victim, as a gold Dick. It's like, it's like sexism on task plus sexism on top of sexism.2 (54m 57s):And I though it didn't raise me. Maybe I'm not going to watch it. Not fun is what I'm saying. Maybe if it was a woman swindling, the men, I think that would have been a better, more, anti-Trump kind of a situation. But like what you're getting is a guy who's literally gaslighting women. And, and for, for, for, you know, I don't know, it's a five-hour situation. I want to watch a documentary called grinder finder, or they just follow guys having their random hookups. What I'm interested to know about that is people, I guess it's not just men, but people who pursue only the hookup on these apps is this satisfying.2 (55m 44s):I mean, is it like, yeah, I met this person. We had sex. I never saw them again. It was great. Or, or is there any bit of it? That's you know what I mean? Oh, I know what you mean. It doesn't work. Doesn't work. Does it feel good? I mean, what I'm led to believe about men, sexuality is this is ideal for them, you know, just a nameless, anonymous sex with no, I think it comes down to like what the intention is behind it. But like, I just, you know, whenever people talk about polyamory or, and this, this is different than just a hookup, I'm not comparing polyamory to just hook up culture.2 (56m 26s):But what I am saying is it a lifestyle that is different from mine that I don't understand whenever I think about engaging in behavior like that, whether it's having multiple partners or just had gone for the sex, what I end up with is depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation for myself. That's what I'm saying. Like, if you can do it without those things, I'm like, you go motherfuckers. But for me, I'm like, I don't see how this leads anywhere, but where I was at the age of 29, which was, yeah. And you know, then there's an argument to be made for, like, if you are in your twenties, you were going to do this one way or the other, you know, you're going to have these unsatisfying heartbreaking relationships one way or the other, maybe the advantage of doing it through these apps is that you have a little bit more data.2 (57m 16s):I mean, in the olden days, if you would just meet somebody and it was a one night stand and all you had was their Pedro, a number like that. That's all you had. That's all the information you had to go on this way. You can, which I've heard. It turns into a, a bad thing too. Like when people start stocking and they can't stop themselves from cyber-stalking like their one night stand their hookup. It's a double-edged sword. That would be me. I would be in jail if it were, if it were now I would be in jail for cyber-stalking like the only reason I'm not in jail for cyber-stalking is because we didn't have that because you were born in 1975.2 (57m 57s):Yeah. But I told you about the phone calls I made, right? No. Oh yes. When you called January. I think when the 85 times my boss was like, what? So that's probably a crime that's talking. So I am grateful that my, my anti-depressant has killed my sex drive in some ways. I'm also grateful to be married in some ways, like, look, do I miss the excitement of the chase of the, the, the, that, that butterflies in the stomach. I miss that, but I have to be honest, like the data for me, the evidence shows it never went in the right direction.2 (58m 37s):Like, no. And when you, and when your mind is all so consumed, and it is a nice feeling in a way, but when your mind is all so consumed by falling in love, everything else falls apart, you know what I mean? Like you stop pursuing your career, you stop pursuing like your other life goals. They had any kind of self care goes right out the window for me. And, you know, I'm and I did I ever tell you the story about the famous person who shall remain nameless? That I was in a, met in a, in a group setting that the trellis climbing incident. Okay. Okay. This is, this is fantastic. They needed to make a true crime about this. There's a woman who is who I'm not friends with in any way, but met, randomly and said we were, I was her, this is in I in 2000.2 (59m 23s):And like, I dunno, I dunno. I met her in Chicago and this was like, once I started to get better in my brain about that mental health stuff. We were, I was talking about how I was so dysfunctional in my relationships with men and she's like, oh, you think you're just functional? And this is a gorgeous, stunning lady that you're like, no problem. She's got no problem. She's like, you think that's just functional? I was like, oh God. Oh God. And she said, I was married before. And two, this guy who was a player and I was like, okay. And she's like, and I, I just was obsessed with him. And I knew, I knew that he was cheating and he admitted it.2 (1h 0m 4s):And so then he said he was gonna stop. And then I got pregnant. She says, and I got pregnant. And I had this feeling. He was still cheating, but he kept saying he wasn't right. So she's pregnant. And she, I don't know how many months pregnant. And she's like, he just kept, I just had that, this crazy feeling. And of course it was like, you know, he would tell me I was crazy. It was a whole gaslighting situation. But anyway, so she, in the middle of the night, he was on a business trip and in the middle of the night, she's like, I fucking have to know. I ha she's pregnant. I have to know she goes to his office. Cause that's where he kept it somewhere else in, in the city, not in their home. He, she knew that there was going to be information in the office, but she couldn't get it.2 (1h 0m 48s):Right. She fucking climbs a trellis, pregnant, a trellis, like a trellis, pregnant endangering her life, her baby's life, a criminal, whatever trespassing, even though some husband climbs breaks into his office with like punches, like puts a, a towel around her hand, breaks it breaks office and go through stuff. He's cheating. She finds all kinds of data on his. And she thought to herself, that's when I, she said, that's when I hit bought my bottle and she's sitting there like kind of bloodied.2 (1h 1m 28s):Cause it didn't work all the way to cover her hand bloodied with the evidence she was. Right. Of course. And I think, remind it reminded me of something that an ex of mine had said, when I went, go snooping through his phone, Dave, who then died, who that's, you know, my, my ex and I was snooping through it. It wasn't even really an ex, but he is stupid snooping through his phone. And he goes, look, if you need to Snoop, you're going to find something you don't want to see if you, if that instinct in you, is there. Yeah, it was right. He was absolutely right. I found all kinds of stuff that I didn't want to didn't want to say.2 (1h 2m 10s):So these are these stories that I'm like, oh my God, it doesn't matter what you look like. It doesn't matter. And my heart breaks for that Chloe Kardashians and her fucking, except at the same time, I'm like, okay, but you keep picking these guys. You keep picking these people who absolutely will 1000%, never, never, never not cheat on you. What are you going to do differently? And her answer so far is I'm going to get more plastic surgery. I'm going to diet more. I'm going to exercise. I mean, she has a whole show called revenge body. That is disgusting. That your whole reason for making your body into a certain way is to get revenge on somebody.2 (1h 2m 55s):Like, what are we doing? It's gone all the way left. You want to know even more fucking left. I met someone who was a fucking contestant on that show or like, cool, really? Oh, I actually, I didn't realize it was a shit contest show. They had like a, and she was so fucking crazy. I I've never met a crazier human being in my life. Like wow, never met a crazier human being in my life. And I have treated all levels of crazy. She was the craziest. But anyway, so yeah, you're right. It is the lengths weak, like using our bodies as a weapon, using our bodies, hurting our bodies. It is. And it's one of those things where even if we sat down, you know, Chloe, you, if you ever listened to the show, you're welcome to come on.2 (1h 3m 41s):But even if we sat down and said, all the things you will, people do not change until they are a, in enough pain to change or be angry enough to change. It has to come from within. So like, I'm not sure any amount of intervention with these people. And that's what this woman said. And I know it to be true for me until my dad died. And I was stripped of all resources. Was I able to see that my previous behavior in relationships, especially with men was toxic and killing me and not nice to them either. But it took, it took that it took everything being stripped from me too, to even make any kind of small change.2 (1h 4m 26s):So like, I'm not sure it's so it's such a hard job to try to help someone change because, because they have to do it on the, and so encoded. And because for me, I had, I had to walk such a distance to figure out that the problem was me. I had to try, I had to exhaust every other possibility of who else I could blame. I had to chalk my behavior up to absolutely anything, but what it was, which is I'm recapitulating the same situation that I was literally in coded to, to, to look for B because I, you know, had a father who rejected me, like, yeah.2 (1h 5m 13s):And, and, and, and, and it surprised, I think her father rejected, there's all this stuff about who is her father. And if it's, yeah. I mean, magic people thinking in a funny way that a, an accused double murderer, who is people, you know, who has a plethora of problems and his own trauma is your fucking unknown father. Fuck, that's his claim to fame. It's not right. So here's what I wish. I wish that we all find that in ourselves, that that point without so much pain, but it usually comes with pain to say, oh shit, I don't want to climb any more trellises.2 (1h 5m 55s):I just don't want to risk my life. And my unborn child's life or whatever was risk, whatever the risk is to, to try to, to get this love or this, what I think is going to be the fix for my internal whole, you know, like, I, I wish for us that we would do it in a way we could find that sort of, we could make the realization without having to go through so much heartache, but maybe it takes what it fucking takes. And it takes what it takes. I wish it was different, but a, because somebody could tell you all of these things, a future you could come to, to yourself at 20 and tell you these things.2 (1h 6m 38s):And you might still not believe them because you have to, you know, a lot of experiences you just have to have and told me, stop doing this to yourself. Older women that I was friends with were like, this guy doesn't love you. Like you, like, this is not what you think it is. I didn't get, I didn't pay him any mind. Yeah. Because it's the same thing. Like with theater school, like, yeah. But I'm the exception for me. It's different. You, that's fine for you to say for other people, but for me, it's different. Yeah. If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends.2 (1h 7m 23s):I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina plegia are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound next by Gina for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends April 29th 2022. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.madametussauds.com/london/https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-dolanSince recording this podcast Neil has since joined Little Lion Entertainment as their Operations Director. Neil Dolan's Bio: My career in Visitor Attractions started at The Edinburgh Dungeon while I was at University in Edinburgh studying Chemistry when I quickly realised I was more passionate about working in attractions than working in a lab.After graduating I stayed with Merlin Entertainments and moved to the London Eye (EDF Energy London Eye at the time) and held a couple of different operational roles before moving into the Head of Operations role at the start of 2018. Working in the Attractions and Hospitality industry had never been a specific plan but our industry is so unique in terms of the amazing people that work within it that it has become my passion area and I moved across to Madame Tussauds London in December 2020 to further grow that experience.I believe that an attraction is only as good as the Guest Experience it delivers and I truly believe that a guest first mentality is what turns a good attraction in a world class attraction. Guests and People have been the focus at Madame Tussauds London in 2021 and the work we have done together as a team over the last 12 months is something I'm truly proud of.Outside of work, I'm kept busy by my 3 year old son Brodie and when I can I try and keep up with my ice hockey and a bit of exercise, albeit the exercise consistency probably needs working on in 2022.  Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host Kelly Molson.In today's episode, I speak with Neil Dolan, Head of Operations at Madame Tussauds, London.We'll talk about Neil's experience of switching the attraction from a predominantly international market to a domestic, how they've heavily invested in the experience and what cocktail making has to do with all of this. If you like what you hear, subscribe on all the usual channels by searching to Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Neil, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's really lovely to see you.Neil Dolan: No, it's great. Thanks for inviting me on. I was really looking forward to it.Kelly Molson: Good. Well, you might not say that after we've done the icebreaker questions. Okay. Let's go straight in. If you could be anywhere in the world right now, where would you choose to be?Neil Dolan: I always have to do this comparison in my head that, because I think when I was probably 10, I got to go to Disneyland for the first time and absolutely loved it and became that sort of kid that every year, just almost like "We're going back to Disneyland. We're going back to Disneyland." And it was almost that amazing moment I remember when I was a child. And then me and my partner went again before we had a child and it was still just as amazing. So whenever me and my partner are talking about holiday, we use almost Disney as the par. It doesn't matter if we're going to the most luxurious resort, we always talk about the first time we get to take him to Disneyland.Kelly Molson: Oh, my god.Neil Dolan: Because that magic is just awesome.Kelly Molson: How old are your... You have children?Neil Dolan: Yes, I've got a son who'll be three in April.Kelly Molson: Okay. Right.Neil Dolan: And so I actually spent a good three hours of my night, last night, sleeping on his bedroom floor.Kelly Molson: Oh gosh. I'm so with you on Disney. I think it is just the most magical place. Your child is three now. What age are you like waiting until they're ready to go?Neil Dolan: And this is where we were a little bit selfish, because we were almost like, "How tall will he be when he's six? How tall will he be when he's seven? And does that mean we can go on these rights? I think it does." So we want to have that perfect... Because, when you're there, you see all those amazing play areas that they can play when they're really, really young. But we almost want that magical age where they really associate everything with films. And then when you almost walk through the gates at Magic Kingdom for the first time, they get what that is. And that amazing look on the face is what we're aiming. So we think probably six or seven.Kelly Molson: We have just had this same debate, but I've actually had it with my parents because they're massive Disney fans as well.Neil Dolan: Right.Kelly Molson: And they turned 70 this year. And so Edie is nearly eight months old now. And they're like, "Well, so we are thinking five because then we'll be 75 and we won't be too old that we won't enjoy it still." And I'm like, "Well, okay. I get it. But also that's a bit selfish."Neil Dolan: We've got the same train of thought. Everybody absolutely got themselves at the forefront because it doesn't matter how old you, it's just such a great place.Kelly Molson: No. And I'm five 5'2 and Lee's only about 5'8. So there's no hope that she's going to be a tall grower at so we're "Yeah, I think six is all right." Thank you for sharing that. That's so weird that we've all have the same chat about that. Okay. What did you want to be when you grew up?Neil Dolan: So I actually read through my primary school yearbook about three, four months ago. And I read, we got asked the same question and I've played ice hockey for about 25 years and I was really specific. There's a team called Colorado Avalanche. And I wrote in my yearbook because I wanted to be the left defender for the Colorado Avalanche.Kelly Molson: Wow.Neil Dolan: And I was like, "That's a really specific position and team and everything." So yeah, for years I wanted to be an professional ice hockey player.Kelly Molson: Oh my goodness. But you still play? So you got to a certain point.Neil Dolan: Yeah. I still play. I played when I was at university, played for the Edinburgh team for a year and it was significantly detrimental to my studies. And so I continued to play for fun when I was at university. And then, when I moved to London, there's not as many ice rinks and they're more difficult to get to. And I played a little bit in Streatham, when I lived in old street and I had to get two night buses back from Streatham at half past midnight. And I thought, "Maybe I'll wait until I move somewhere else."Kelly Molson: Yeah.Neil Dolan: So I played with a team in slack which is great. It's just a good bunch of guys having a laugh.Kelly Molson: It is absolutely brilliant to go and watch. Yeah. And quite brutal as well. Quite like that.Neil Dolan: Yeah, they do it and everyone always says, "Were you one of the people that was absolutely brutal?" And in my head I want to say, "Yes." Definitely not, as much as I would love to hold that up, I was not that guy.Kelly Molson: Okay. It's good that you're still doing it, though. I love how niched that was. Okay. What show on Netflix did you binge watch embarrassingly fast?Neil Dolan: Embarrassingly fast? It's probably not so much embarrassing, but the one which is almost like one of those golden nuggets was, there was a show called Lilyhammer that was about six years ago, which was a dark comedy drama about a mob boss who becomes an informant in America then goes to live in Lilyhammer because they hosted the Winter Olympics in the nineties. And it's the actor from The Sopranos, whose name always escapes me. But it's one of those embarrassing things that I can never do it justice. So, whenever I try and explain it to someone, they think, "That sounds terrible. It's an awful show."Kelly Molson: It's not something that I've watched. I haven't heard of it.Neil Dolan: It's so funny. If you're into that kind of dark sarcastic humor, it's honestly brilliant.Kelly Molson: All right.Neil Dolan: Whether or not it's still on Netflix or not.Kelly Molson: I'm going to add that to my list. That wasn't as embarrassing as I was expecting it to be. Mine's Cobra Kai, which is pretty embarrassing. I got a little bit obsessed with Cobra Kai. Okay. What is your unpopular opinion?Neil Dolan: So, this is probably the most difficult one to think of actually, but I think it's probably that I think that the Sunday roast is overrated.Kelly Molson: What?Neil Dolan: I think I would prefer to have an expertly made pizza than a Sunday roast because I think they look better. I think the product looks amazing on Instagram and there are very good Sunday roasts, but the effort to make a Sunday roast, I don't know. I just don't think the hype is.Kelly Molson: I can't agree with you on this. And I love pizza, don't get me wrong. But a Sunday roast is my favourite meal of the whole week. It is a lot of effort, I know what you're saying, to cook it all and it's gone really quickly, isn't it?Neil Dolan: Yeah, it is.Kelly Molson: But, no. Okay. All right, listeners, Tweet me. Let me know what you feel about that. I reckon I might get some stick about that, Neil. Okay. Neil, you began as Head of Operations at Madame Tussauds, in December 2020, which must have been quite an interesting time to start a new job, I can imagine.Neil Dolan: Yeah, it was my first day at Madame Tussauds, it was actually the first day of lockdown three. I basically didn't get to meet anyone. In fact, the first conversations I had with my new team was almost telling them about furlough coming back. So it began this really weird phase where I was in the role for quite a long time, but I just hadn't really met anyone. There was only a very small number of people who were still working. And, fortunately, we had weekly Zoom calls where I got to meet some of the team and get to know people to an extent. But it was nowhere near as good as it is when you actually get to go in and meet people for the first time and get to understand who people are, what makes them tick and actually get to know people.Kelly Molson: Yeah.Neil Dolan: So it was a really, really, really bizarre time. But, in many ways, it was quite exciting because I almost got to look at everything. While you're closed, you ought to look at almost the bare basics, which you don't always get to do when you're caught up in, I guess, the business as usual, the normal trading.Kelly Molson: Yeah. That's quite interesting, isn't it? Because you're looking at it from the perspective, "Okay, well, no one can come anyway." So actually this is almost like a blank canvas, so to speak, to see where the pitfalls are or the challenges are, or what's working well and what isn't working well.Neil Dolan: Yeah. And I'm still so fortunate here because the team I've got are incredible. And what I knew in the very... I mean, we're talking days where I got to speak to some people. I guess the passion that the people who work at Madame Tussauds have for Madame Tussauds I've never seen anything like it. They're so in love with this place. It's very difficult to get people to be passionate about something that they may not be. But that passion was already there. So when I started, I was like, "Well, I don't have to worry about that because they're already so far gone. They just absolutely love what they're doing.Kelly Molson: Yeah. So there wasn't a lot of, you didn't have to be really motivational for them. You didn't have to-Neil Dolan: Absolutely not. No, because they have that. We've got some people who are in my team that have been here for 30 years and they just love their job. And, when you get to sit down and speak to them about what is it that they love, they just like, "Well, I just love this place. I always worked here." That's so nice to hear. You don't always get that in new establishments or I guess different sectors.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Oh, that's really lovely, isn't it? I guess that helped with some of the things that we are going to talk about as well, because you've been through some quite big changes, haven't you? So one of the things that you needed to do was make quite a significant switch in terms of who your audience was, because you've gone from predominantly having an international market to domestic because they're international travel. Where do you even start with that?Neil Dolan: Yeah. So we were a little bit unique, I guess, in comparison to some of the market, because just before one of the lockdowns, there had already been some plans for, I guess, some renovations and some investment. And there was probably a stop/go time where the decision was made. Do we keep investing, given all the challenges that are going to come and cash flow being such a topic amongst our industry in particular? And what was really nice when I came was the view was, "We need to invest in the product, we need to invest in the experience." So we almost went the opposite way. So, rather than going into a shell of, "We need to be really conservative." It was, "We need to invest back in the experience," because London's one of those places that tourism will bounce back because London as a city is just such an amazing place.Neil Dolan: And Madame Tussauds London is such an institution that I think there is good confidence that, once the markets are back, they'll come back when they're back in the city. But to get that domestic side it was almost to think about, "Well, what is that maybe the domestics think? Or what is it domestics are passionate about?" And fine tailor the investment we were going to do to ensure that we were speaking to them.Neil Dolan: So, when we reopened, we launched our new Awards Party and we'd moved Harry and Megan, which the press jumped at because originally they were with the Royals in our Royal area. And then, when they decided to take a different step down from Senior Royals, we moved them into our new Awards Party area to be with the likes of your Leonard DiCaprios and Dwayne Johnsons. And that PR hook that we got was amazing because we were then able to speak to our domestic audience of, "Look what we're doing at Madame Tussauds. Look what you can come and see. Come and see what's on your doorstep."Kelly Molson: Yeah.Neil Dolan: And that was the first thing that we did when we reopened, that we would've probably done anyway. But the message we were trying to get to people is, "This attraction has always been here and now it's probably going to be slightly quieter. So even better, come and enjoy."Kelly Molson: It's funny, isn't it? Because I guess you've had to go through changing the perception of what Madame Tussauds is for the domestic market, because I've been there, years ago, with my parents. I can remember it. I've got my Novelty eraser from there. I've got it. I've got it right next to me, I've got my rubber from Madame Tussauds, it's for my collection. But, in my head, I do see it as a tourist destination. It's somewhere that I would love to take my daughter one day for her to experience it. But it's changing that perception of what it is in people's heads, isn't it? And that's quite a difficult thing to do.Neil Dolan: Yeah. And it's come with some with some challenges. And, going back to the benefit that I had of being able to, I guess, look under the bonnet when I started, was there was probably some things that as a team we focused on quite heavily when we reopened that have probably gone to benefit, I guess, that domestic market to maybe see a different side of us. So, when we reopened, we were very much like, "Experience. Experience. Customer service. Customer service." And what has been really, really nice is that we've probably, I guess, focused quite a lot on what our external reviews are looking like. And we don't have to shy away from the fact that we've probably had a reputation for queues. You know, everyone who used to talk about Madame Tussauds would start with the queues.Neil Dolan: So we are very much focusing on, "Let's get that reputation down about us having queues and being crowded." And what's been really nice because we've done that focus, and ultimately, I guess, simplify it a little bit, make things a lot easier. We've seen our review scores go up, we've seen the theme of our reviews completely change. And that's really good because when domestics are looking at reviews, they're rightly seeing that there are long queues and it's over crowded. And I guess by us taking a step back, looking at, "Okay, why is that the case?", we've actually been in such a better place. And the fact that that's now showing in our reviews is great because you can do all the marketing you want in the world, but if your advocacy's not strong enough, or people go into Google Reviews and have a look at what people are saying and it's all negative, people won't go there.Kelly Molson: Just talk us through a little bit what you did there, because the queue issue is the big issue to address. What did you put in place to make that better?Neil Dolan: So we've always had almost a time ticketing system. It probably improved over 2017 to 2019. But there were some technological challenges we still had, where there were some guests who still had the old school paper voucher who then had to come to the attraction to exchange that, to then get a time ticket, to then almost come back later. So already that guest has had this really mixed experience because it's not their fault. They've already bought their ticket from someone. And then the system has then almost said, "Well, yeah. But you have to come back later and queue again." So that already is completely confusing and it's a bad experience. And potentially, because we are quite an international audience, if that person doesn't speak English particularly well, it's even more frustrating.Kelly Molson: Yeah.Neil Dolan: So, when we reopened, we worked really hard with our partners so that everyone who books, I guess, even through a third party has a ticket that they only have to queue once, that has a time on it with very clear information. So we almost, instead of having, I guess, the bulk of our guests turning up within, I guess, the two to three hours in the middle of the day, when everyone tends to go to attractions, just spreading them out through the day means that there's less queues, there's less people going into the building. It's just a better experience. And it sounds really simple, but the pandemic was horrible for so many reasons. But in some ways for, I guess, the technology side businesses had to adapt and we had to do things better. And that's been a massive change for us.Kelly Molson: Yeah, definitely. We've had this conversation numerous times on the podcast about pre-booking and the benefits of it and why most will want to keep it past the pandemic, as well. So, how does it work with the international audience for you? Would people predominantly buy tickets in advance or were you more a walk-up attraction?Neil Dolan: I guess, again, that's changed or we've seen it change at the moment, since the pandemic. So we used to do quite a lot of tickets from a walk-up perspective and we do a good proportion on online and, because we are quite internationally heavy in some respects, we would do a lot through third parties and through the trade industry, what we've seen at the moment is there's been a massive swing from walk-up tickets to online booking. And it's difficult to draw conclusion from it because it's very domestic heavy at the moment. And we are just so used to doing that, it's almost ingrained. In fact, I pre-booked to go to the swimming pool the other day.Kelly Molson: Oh, yeah. I have to do the same.Neil Dolan: Which we usually just wouldn't do. You just turn up with your arm band, or I turn up with my arm bands anyway.Kelly Molson: Don't we all?Neil Dolan: Yeah, we all. Absolutely. In some ways that's really helpful because it allows you to make sure that you've got the right resource in, it allows you to plan throughout the day properly, you don't always get caught off guard. So, again, it's a massive benefit for us be able to actually manage the experience. Whereas walk-up is great and I don't think it's anything we would ever stop doing, but if you get a massive surge of people who just turn up on the day, you could be caught off guard and that, again, can be detrimental.Kelly Molson: That's an interesting question, isn't it? So, how much of your market did you lose overnight? What did it go from?Neil Dolan: Well, we're probably the majority international and even the minority domestic that we had before, there was a good proportion of that with schools. So you almost turned off the majority of our market and then, of the domestic market, we lost the school bookings because they weren't doing that either. And that's not just for us, that's almost for London, that these people just weren't there. In fact, I walked through Covent Garden two Fridays ago, on a Friday night, and it was dead.Kelly Molson: Wow.Neil Dolan: And you just think that there's, I don't know, 6 million tourists or whatever it is that comes in a short period of time that just aren't in the city. So we knew it was going to be challenging and we knew, in particular, it was going to be challenging in the times when schools weren't off because you're more reliant on, I guess, overnighter couples or families who aren't in school. So people with really young children. So just a really tough position to be in.Kelly Molson: Thinking about what you said about the pre-booking and you are always going to welcome walk-ups as well. I think that's the nature of where you're located and what you do and the market that you have. How did you counter that? For example, if you're going to keep pre-booking and you're still going to keep the time slots where you've got people, and then you get an influx of people that just want to come on that day for those times, how are you going to keep the experience as good as it is now when that market comes back and that shift happens?Neil Dolan: Yeah. So, a big part of it is communicating. A lot of it is communicating to our guests really, really, really clearly. So the benefits of almost a high percentage pre-booked model are you can get in, in the morning, and know where your full slots are. And what we've kind of got into a good position of doing now, when we know we've got capacity challenges and I'm hoping that you want to have capacity challenges in some instance, because it means you're busy, is being quite honest and telling people. So I know certainly when I was in my previous role at the London Eye, when we had a busy day and it was almost sold out, we would put that on the website, or we would maybe put it on Twitter or try and tell people in advance as best we can.Neil Dolan: What we did, and this weekend was a good example of it, where we were really busy, was that we just made the decision that we'll just stay open for a little bit longer and we can add additional availability after we would've closed. So, for anyone who does turn up, we keep the doors open a little bit longer, because we don't want them to go away disappointed. From a business perspective, we want to capitalise when there's people there to buy the ticket. And I would like to think we probably would've done that before, but I think certainly this post-COVID rebuilding time we've been trialing lots of different things and thinking probably a lot more differently than we probably would've. Less rigid, I suppose.Kelly Molson: That was going to be one of my questions. And, just to go back to address that about staying open longer, that's really surprising for me because I wouldn't have expected that level of flexibility from such a large attraction because that's... Okay. You make the decision, "Are we going to stay open an hour later tonight?" That's a lot of people that you've got to get to agree to do that, isn't it? That's really great.Neil Dolan: It is. And, again, going back to my comment about the team here, they generally just love this place and they love it when it's really busy. And I think that's probably anyone who's an operator. As much as they think, "Oh, I'm really tired after that peak period," the off peak period comes and, "Oh, wish it was peaking again."Kelly Molson: Yeah.Neil Dolan: The credit of that needs to go to my team of management, because they've got that relationship with the team that the team also know it's more beneficial because they would rather we were open a little bit longer rather than us trying to put more people through the doors, because that could be the other way of doing it. But then, going back to that whole point of you need to protect the experience to improve the advocacy, to make the business more appealing, we're very honest with our team in terms of what our strategy is. And our strategy is we need to maintain the experience. And it was one of those proud moments actually, when one of the team messages say we're going to stay open later because we're really busy, I was like, "That's awesome." And that's almost them feeling that they're empowered to make that decision. I was just like, "That's great. Do it."Kelly Molson: That is lovely. You've done your job well, that's it. Like you say, you've empowered them to do that and that's the benefit of the visitors as well. That's really fantastic. I was genuinely really surprised by that. You mentioned doing things differently and that was one of the questions that I had for you is some of the benefits of the pandemic for organisations is that we've had to think really quickly and change what we do in and take chances on stuff. Are there things that you've tried that you previously wouldn't have thought about?Neil Dolan: Yeah. So, one of the phrases that I used a couple of times was, "Let's try it because if it's 5% wrong, it's 5% of not a lot."Kelly Molson: Yeah.Neil Dolan: Whereas, if you do it in summer peak period and normal times, that could be quite massive. So we tried different promotions, we tried different pricing strategies, we tried new products. So we did a product where, last year, the last hour of the day tended to be the quietest. So we did a product with a gin company that it'd be almost a discounted ticket. And someone got a free glass of this cocktail that was made. And normally you wouldn't have been able to do it because you'd be so nervous that not too many people buy it, and we won't be able to serve the cocktails enough, who's going to make the cocktail? And in the end we was thought, "We'll just make it work. It'll be fine." So we ended up doing a cocktail making class.Kelly Molson: At Madame Tussauds?Neil Dolan: Yeah, they came in, they taught us-Kelly Molson: That's really cool.Neil Dolan:... How to make a cocktail. And then members of our frontline team, if they were happy to do it, the last hour of the day, it was called Fame & Fizz. And they were on the Fame & Fizz position, were they had to make cocktails for people who bought this ticket.Kelly Molson: Nice.Neil Dolan: And, if I'm honest, we wouldn't have done it before because I think everybody was probably in that mindset like, "Well, it wouldn't work," because operationally it wouldn't work. And no one would be able to tell you why. And I was always guilty for it. If I went back a good few years, I probably would've said the same thing, but we thought, "Let's try it. Let's see what happens." And it was good for what it was. And the guests obviously loved it, because who doesn't like a cocktail?Kelly Molson: Who doesn't have a cocktail? And if you don't, crazy. Like one of those crazy people that like pizza over roast dinners.Neil Dolan: Probably gonna be the same.Kelly Molson: So, it's quite liberating to try new things, isn't it? Like, "Let's just give it a go and see what happens." Do you feel like you can embrace that now with things going back to normal? Do you think that you'll still have the opportunity to try different things?Neil Dolan: Yeah. I think you have to. And I think, again, it's one of those things that we've... I'm going to put enjoyed in a certain way, because for some of the team, they'll be like, "Ah, it's another idea. Oh, no." But, again, it's almost that point of, "What have you got to lose?" And, if it's a success, then amazing. We'll ride that success throughout. And the important thing even with the things that don't work, what we made a really conscious effort of is make sure that we almost document why it doesn't work and keep that somewhere really available. Because the worst thing, if I use the example of some of the team that have been here for 30 years, they probably will have seen the same thing tried over and over again. And it's never fair for those people to provide almost experience of why something hasn't worked and for someone to go, "Yeah. But it's just being amusing." And actually, sometimes it hasn't worked for a very good reason, but sometimes with turnover people don't remember why.Kelly Molson: Yeah.Neil Dolan: And if there's anything certainly from the last year, is that just trying things and seeing what happens and, if it doesn't work, just don't try it again. We'll keep doing that.Kelly Molson: I like that idea of documenting it because you could get into that situation where you just think someone's being a bit of a Debbie Downer, but actually no, you have tried this before.Neil Dolan: We've tried it, yeah.Kelly Molson: Let me get the book out and tell you exactly why this didn't work. I'm intrigued to know what other crazy ideas might be your sleeves. I bet your team is quite intrigued, as well.Neil Dolan: Yeah. When I open my door, they're just about their eyes.Kelly Molson: So what about your marketing? You would've had to have made quite a significant switch in terms of what you were doing with your marketing, because domestic and international audiences, you would market to them in a completely different way. What was that shift? What did you change?Neil Dolan: So, there is some similarities we would still have selling the peak periods. We still had an element of out of home, we would still do your more traditional location advertising. And it's speaking about London here because you don't have all of the internationals in the city, you can't really focus on that location domination in the same way, because you're talking to not that many people. And that kind of marketing is just incredibly expensive. So when we were looking at, "Okay, so we've got an element of which are going to be day trippers." So we need to be speaking to them either through social media, which everybody uses more than anything else in the world now, and to an extent PR. But you also need that reach of working with the right partners, because we want to be speaking to probably people in the Northeast of England, the people in the Southwest of England, people in Scotland, because we want them to come to Madame Tussauds when they're in London and that's half the battle.Neil Dolan: But the other half, which was incredibly difficult for us, wasn't something we could do by ourself was, was getting involved in the Let's Do London campaign, because what came out of the pandemic was this buildup of demand amongst the domestic market who couldn't go abroad, but then the coastal areas did incredibly well. Cornwall I don't think will have ever recovered from the influx of people that it had. But everything you saw on the news was, "The underground's unsafe. There's too many people. It's too busy," when actually it was the complete opposite. London was dead. There was just no one around. So, whereas we would normally never have done it, a lot of what we were trying to say to people was, "We are safe. Here's the measures that we've got in place. We know what we're doing." The good-to-go thing was a great initiative that we could shout out about.Neil Dolan: So, rather than always talking about the product, we had to do an element where we were talking about, I guess, the health and safety side. And a lot of that, again, was done through PR, was, when we did have these launches, trying to caveat a bit of both like, "Come see this amazing figure. We've preserved the experience. It's absolutely safe. We can't wait to see you."Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? The couple of times that I went into London during the pandemic, just thought London was really lovely.Neil Dolan: It was amazing.Kelly Molson: It was so nice. Just walking around, no one was bumping into you. I could get a seat on the tube. It was glorious. I wasn't in anyone's armpit.Neil Dolan: Yeah.Kelly Molson: That should be the marketing campaign.Neil Dolan: That's the marketing campaign. Absolutely.Kelly Molson: "Come now. You won't be in anyone's armpit on a tube." So what next? International travel is resuming.Neil Dolan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).Kelly Molson: You mentioned that you were really busy this weekend, which is fantastic.Neil Dolan: Yeah.Kelly Molson: So what is next for Madame Tussauds? What can we see on the horizon?Neil Dolan: A couple of things, really. So some of it is the learnings that we've taken from having a domestic focus, is not to lose it, because I guess what's been really reassuring is that we've and if it wasn't probably for, I guess, the Omicron variant over Christmas, we'd probably be further down a recovery in London than we are because October, half-term last year was really promising. And we've learned a lot about what it is that domestics like about the product, we've learned a lot about what is hopefully driving domestics here. So the main thing that we're going to do is to keep that focus, because we done to drop it. For us, that investment continues. We're continuing to invest in the product. So we've got a brand new music zone, which will open for Easter, which is going to be incredibly exciting. We had Zendaya launch in February, which has been received incredibly well. We did a documentary. That was the other thing we did last year, Madame Tussauds' documentary where it was talked about the return of the Chamber of Horrors, will come back to Madame Tussauds.Kelly Molson: Wow.Neil Dolan: So, that product focus is going to stay because if it there's one thing that I think we certainly learned from the pandemic is that you can never take your experience for granted, because your market share is not guaranteed and advocacy is not guaranteed. And we've been probably really proud of the fact that we've not been scared away from our plans because what guests are telling us, and it's also great for the team here because they're seeing great amounts of investment and areas of building just just looking amazing. Our new Awards Party is just so, so good.Neil Dolan: That continued investment, that continued focus on PR that continued focus on the experience will do us absolute wonders when internationals come back. And we talk a lot about one of our, I guess, target audiences being families with younger to middle teens who come, just really getting excited about celebrities. We talk a lot about we really want to show how amazing this is because we then want those teens to come back with their families, later on. And that continual evolution, because celebrity landscape changes all the time. That continual change at Madame Tussauds is important because we need to reflect what the landscape is. And who knows what it will look like in five or six years?Neil Dolan: So that's something we're very aware of and something we're going to have to, I guess, keep an eye on, as time goes on. Because, as we found, I think it was in 2020, there was a petition from people to not take away the One Direction figures. People are really passionate about our product, as well. So, we have to take what's being said seriously.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Gosh. People do get really upset about things, don't they? I hadn't thought about it.Neil Dolan: One Direction is a very, very passionate subject.Kelly Molson: Are they still there or did you take them away?Neil Dolan: One Direction, they were in a music zone just now, which we'll launch, as I said, it'll be for Easter. They may or may not be there when we opened, but we'll see what's the public saying.Kelly Molson: They're gone, but not forgotten.Neil Dolan: Never forgotten.Kelly Molson: Never forgotten. Neil, thank you so much. This has been such an enjoyable talk. Thanks for coming on and sharing everything that you've been through. It's been a bit of a whirlwind, I can imagine. We're at the end of the podcast. And I always ask our guests to share a book that they love. So something personal, something work related, just something that you really enjoy, that you think our listeners might, as well.Neil Dolan: Particularly, when I was coming to work, I guess, during the third lockdown, lockdown has been confusing. When you've been at work and you always use the train journey to switch off from work. I said, my son is absolutely obsessed with dinosaurs, to the point where, by virtue, now I am obsessed with dinosaurs. So I spent a good part of those train journey to reading Jurassic Park books, because I'd never read them before. I'd watched the films hundreds of times, but I'd never read the books. And I used to do this and my partner was probably sick of me talking about it. I just basically go home and tell her about what I dread in Jurassic Park. And it was such a good way to switch off because, particularly when you've got little one, you definitely need that separation of work and home. And that was almost the transition where my son, who was pretty good at talking, but was correcting me on dinosaur pronunciation, when they were years olds was bizzare.Kelly Molson: Where does this come from? Because Edie is too young for this right now, but I really liked dinosaurs when I was a kid. But our friend's little boy is obsessed, obsessed with dinosaurs. Knows all of the complicated words that I can't even pronounce.Neil Dolan: Yeah.Kelly Molson: I have no idea where it's come from.Neil Dolan: No, I have no idea. I have no idea. But being corrected by a two year old was [crosstalk 00:34:41] I didn't know what a Zuniceratops was, but when I Googled it and I was like, "He's right. Okay. I'll take that one away."Kelly Molson: Mind blown.Neil Dolan: Yeah.Kelly Molson: Okay. So we're recommending the Jurassic Park books. This is so great.Neil Dolan: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: I love this. Okay. Well, listeners, if you want to win Neil's books, then if you head over to our Twitter account and you Retweet this episode announcement with the words, "I want Neil's books," then you may be lucky enough to win them. Who knows? Neil, thank you. That's been a really lovely chat. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you for coming on.Kelly Molson: Thank you to Paul Griffiths of Painshill Park, who put me in touch with you in the first place after I put my little shout out about my Novelty rubbers. And let's try and get all of the attractions on the podcast. I'm very pleased you did because it was a really great chat. So, thank you.Neil Dolan: No, thanks for having me on. It's been great. It's been really enjoyable.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

01:47 - Nyota's Superpower: To hear and pull out people's ideas to make them more clear, actionable, and profitable! * Acknowledging The Unspoken * Getting Checked 07:15 - Boundaries and Harmony 10:35 - News & Social Media * Addiction * Filtering * Bias 18:54 - The Impact of AI 23:00 - Anyone Can Be A Freelance Journalist; How Change Happens * Chelsea Cirruzzo's Guide to Freelance Journalism (https://docs.google.com/document/d/18rwpMH_VpK8LUcO61czV2SzzXPVmcVhmUigf1_a7xbc/edit) * Casey's GGWash Article About Ranked Choice Voting (https://ggwash.org/view/79582/what-exactly-is-ranked-choice-voting-anyway) * First Follower: Leadership Lessons from Dancing Guy | Derek Sivers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ) 40:13 - The Intersection of Cybersecurity and Employee Wellness: Resiliency * @selfcare_tech (https://twitter.com/selfcare_tech) Reflections: Casey & John: “A big part of resilience is being able to take more breaths.” – Nyota Damien: You can be the expert. You can be the journalist. You can be the first mover/leader. Applying that conscientiously. Nyota: Leaving breadcrumbs. This episode was brought to you by @therubyrep (https://twitter.com/therubyrep) of DevReps, LLC (http://www.devreps.com/). To pledge your support and to join our awesome Slack community, visit patreon.com/greaterthancode (https://www.patreon.com/greaterthancode) To make a one-time donation so that we can continue to bring you more content and transcripts like this, please do so at paypal.me/devreps (https://www.paypal.me/devreps). You will also get an invitation to our Slack community this way as well. Transcript: PRE-ROLL: Software is broken, but it can be fixed. Test Double's superpower is improving how the world builds software by building both great software and great teams. And you can help! Test Double is hiring empathetic senior software engineers and DevOps engineers. We work in Ruby, JavaScript, Elixir and a lot more. Test Double trusts developers with autonomy and flexibility at a remote, 100% employee-owned software consulting agency. Looking for more challenges? Enjoy lots of variety while working with the best teams in tech as a developer consultant at Test Double. Find out more and check out remote openings at link.testdouble.com/greater. That's link.testdouble.com/greater. DAMIEN: Welcome to Episode 275 of Greater Than Code. I'm Damien Burke and I'm here with John Sawers. JOHN: Thanks, Damien. And I'm here with Casey Watts. CASEY: Hi, I'm Casey! And we're all here with our guest today, Nyota Gordon. Nyota is a technologist in cybersecurity and Army retiree with over 22 years of Active Federal Leadership Service. She is the founder, developer, and all-around do-gooder at Transition365 a Cyber Resiliency Training Firm that thrives at the intersection of cybersecurity and employee wellness. Welcome, Nyota! So glad to have you. NYOTA: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you. CASEY: Yay! All right. Our first question—we warned you about this—what is your superpower and how did you acquire it? NYOTA: My superpower is to hear, pull out people's ideas, and make them more clear, more actionable, and more profitable. DAMIEN: Ooh. NYOTA: Yeah, that's one of my friends told me that. And how did I get it? I'm a words person. So I listen to what people say, but I also listen to what they don't say. CASEY: What they don't say. NYOTA: Yeah. CASEY: Can you think of an example? NYOTA: Like that. Like when you did that quiet thing you just did, I saw that mind blown emoji because there's a lot in unspoken. There's a lot in body language. There's a lot in silence. When the silence happens, there's a lot when someone changes the topic, like that stuff is a lot. [chuckles] So I listen and I acknowledge all of that. Maybe we all hear it, or don't hear it depending on how you're processing what I'm saying, but we don't always acknowledge it and respect it in other people, DAMIEN: You have to listen to the notes he's not playing. [laughter] Do you ever have an experience where things that are not said do not want to be heard? NYOTA: Absolutely. But that's part of acknowledging and so, you can tell when people are like, “I do not want to talk about that.” So then I would do a gentle topic change and not a hard left all the time, because you don't want to make it all the way weird, but it may be like, “Oh, okay so you were talking about your hair, like you were saying something about your hair there.” I try to be very mindful because I will get in your business. Like, I will ask you a million questions. I'm very inquisitive and maybe that's one of my superpowers too, but I'm also aware and I feel like I'm respectful of people's space most times. CASEY: I really like that in people when people notice a lot about me and they can call it out. When I was a kid, my family would call me blunt, not necessarily in a bad way, but I would just say whatever I'm thinking and not everyone likes it right away. But I really appreciate that kind of transparency, honesty, especially if I trust the person. That helps a lot, too. NYOTA: I was just saying that to my mom, actually, I was like, “You know, mom, I feel like I need a different quality of friend,” and what I mean by that is my friends just let me wild out. Like I ask them anything, I say anything, but they don't kind of check me. They're like, “Well, is that right, Nyota?” Like, Tell me, why are you saying it like that?” But they just let me be like ah and I'm like, “Mom, I need to be checked.” Like I need a hard check sometimes. So now you're just letting me run wild so now I'm just seeing how wild I can get. Sometime I just want maybe like a little check, a little body check every now and then, but I try to be mindful when it comes to other people, though. It's the check I want is not always the check that other people want. CASEY: Right, right. DAMIEN: What is it like when you're being checked? What happens? NYOTA: It's hard to come by these days so I'm not really sure [chuckles] when I'm getting my own, but I'll ask a question. I'll just kind of ask a question like, “Well, is that true?” people are like, “This world is falling apart,” and you know how people are because we are in a shaky space right now and I'm like, “But is that absolutely true for your life?” How is everything really infecting, impacting what have you being exposed to in your own life? So as we have the conversation about COVID. COVID was one of my best years as far as learning about myself, connecting with people better and more intimately than I ever really have before and we're talking virtually. So things are going on in the world, but is it going on personally, or are you just watching the news and repeating what other people are saying? JOHN: That's such a fascinating thing to do to interrupt that cycle of someone who's just riding along with something they've heard, or they're just getting caught up in the of that everything's going to hell and the world is in a terrible place. Certainly, there are terrible things going on, but that's such a great question to ask because it's not saying there's nothing bad going on. You're not trying to be toxically positive, but you're saying, “Let's get a clear view of that and look at what's actually in your life right now.” NYOTA: That part, that part because people are like, nobody's looking for crazy Pollyanna, but sometimes people do need to kind of get back to are we talking about you, or are we talking about someone else? DAMIEN: That's such a great way of framing it: are we talking about you, or are we talking about someone else? NYOTA: Yeah. CASEY: It reminds me of boundaries. The boundary, literally the definition of who I am and who I care about. It might include my family, my partner, me. It's may be a gradient even. [chuckles] We can draw the boundary somewhere on that. NYOTA: Yeah, and I think we also get to speak even more than boundaries about is it in harmony? Because I feel like there are going to be some levels that are big, like my feelings are heard, or I'm feeling like I just need to be by myself. But then there are these little supporting roles of what that is. I think it's as you see, some parts are up and some parts are down because sometimes when it comes to boundaries, it's a little challenging because sometimes there has to be this give and take, and your boundaries get to be a little bit more fluid when they have to engage with other people. It's those darn other people. [chuckles] DAMIEN: But being conscientious and aware of how you do that. It's a big planet with a lot of people on it and if you go looking for tragedy, we're very well connected, we can find it all and you can internalize as much of it as you can take and that's bad. That is an unpleasant experience. NYOTA: Yeah. DAMIEN: And that's not to say that it's not happening out there and that's not to say that it's not tragic, but you get to decide if it's happening to you, or not. NYOTA: Right. DAMIEN: And that's separate from things that are directly in our physical space, our locus of control, or inside of the boundaries that we set with ourselves and loved ones, et cetera. NYOTA: Because it's so easy to – I say this sometimes, guilt is a hell of a drug because sometimes people are addicted to guilt, addicted to trauma, addicted to a good time and not even thinking of all the things that come with those different levels of addiction. So I think we get fed into this news and this narrative, like we were speaking of earlier a of everything's bad, this is a terrible place, everyone's going to hell. Whatever the narrative is the flavor of the moment and there's so many other things. It's a whole world, like you said. It's a whole world and I think the world is kind of exactly what we're looking for. When I was in the military, every town is exactly what you need it to be. [laughter] Because if you're looking for the club, you're looking for the party people in little small towns. But I could tell you where every library was. Don't call me nerdy because I am, but I don't care. All right. I could tell you where every library was. I could tell you where every place to eat. I could tell you all of those things, but then you'll ask me like, “Where's the club?” And I was like, “There's a club here?” Because that's not what I'm looking for. That's not the experience that I'm looking for. So I would dare say every place is exactly what you're looking for, what you want it, what you need it to be. CASEY: We're talking about the news a little bit here and it reminds me of social media, like the addiction to news, the addiction to social media. In a way, it is an addiction. Like you keep going to it when you're bored, you just reach for it. That's the stimulus, that's your dopamine. I think of both of those, news and social media, as a cheap form of being connected to other humans. A bad, low quality, not a deep connection kind of thing. But what we all would thrive if we had more of is more connections to others, which like community, authentic relationships with people. But that's harder. Even if you know that and you say that's your goal, it takes more work to do that than to pick up Facebook app on your phone. I deleted it from my phone six months ago and I've been happier for it. [laughter] NYOTA: Like delete, delete? Like delete? CASEY: Well, it is on my iPad in case I have to post a shirt design into a Facebook group. I'm not gone gone, but I'm basically gone and I know that I don't interact on it and it's boring. I don't post anything. I don't get any likes. I don't even want to like anyone's post and they'll say, “Oh, you're on.” I don't do anything. Like once every three months, I'll post a design. NYOTA: Is that for every social media channel? CASEY: I'm still on Twitter. NYOTA: Twitter. CASEY: I'm still on Twitter and LinkedIn kind of for business reasons. But if I could drop them, I think I would, too. NYOTA: Did you say if you could? CASEY: If I could drop them and not have business repercussions. NYOTA: Mm. DAMIEN: This sounds like a great idea to make more profitable. NYOTA: [laughs] I'm thinking does a lot of your business come from –? I feel like LinkedIn is social, but. CASEY: I wouldn't say that I get new business from these necessarily, but I do end up with clients and potential clients and people I've talked to before saying, “Ph, I saw that thing and now that I saw you wrote a blog post about doing surveys for an engineering org, now I want to talk to you.” NYOTA: Mm, okay. CASEY: Like that is pretty valuable and when I'm writing something like a blog post, I want to put that somewhere. But anyway, I am happier that I'm off of Facebook and Instagram, which I wasn't getting as much value out of. Other than connection to people, the shallow connection to people and instead I switched to messaging people. I have text message threads and group chats and those are much more intimate, much more stuff being shared, more connection to those individuals. NYOTA: I agree with that. What about you John? Like what is your relationship with social media right now? JOHN: So I've always been sort of arm's length with Facebook. So it's been just like eh, I check in every week, maybe just sort of see. I scroll until I lose interest, which is 10 minutes the most and then those are my updates. That's all I see and then occasionally, I'll post a meme, or something. I don't really do a lot there. Usually, I keep it around just for the people that I'm in touch with that are only on Facebook and I only have connection to them. But you bring up an interesting point about there's a positive and a negative to being able to filter your social media. For example, with Reddit and Twitter, you only see the stuff for people you're following and/or the subreddits that you're subscribed to. So you can very much customize that experience into something that isn't full of most of the crap people experience on Twitter, or Reddit. So there's that positive there because you can craft a world that's maybe it's all kitten pictures, maybe whatever, and post about programming, whatever it is. But you do have the problem of filter bubbles so that if you are in something that's a little bit more controversial, you do end up with that echo chamber effect and lots of people jumping in, or if you're in a sub that's interesting to you, that's also very contentious and the threads go off the rails all the time, but you can control that. You can see like, “Well, no, get it out of here. I don't need to deal with that static.” I rely on that a lot to sort of focus in on what I'm using it for, whether it's keeping up with specific friends, or specific topics and then trying to filter out as much of the things I don't want as possible. NYOTA: Is Facebook's your only social media channel? JOHN: No, I'm on Twitter. I don't usually post a lot, usually just retweet stuff and read it. NYOTA: That's kind of lame a little bit. I'm not saying, I'm just saying that your social media choices – [laughter] DAMIEN: Wow. NYOTA: But I think you're are right, though. I'm a lot better off for it because I did find myself going down a social media rabbit. It was easy for me to cut off the news. I actually stopped watching the news in 2007 when I became an officer. They were like, “As an officer, you have to watch the news. You have to be aware of what's going on in the world,” and I was like, “Oh, okay,” and then I walked away from that lady and I was like, “I'm not watching the news anymore.” DAMIEN: Hmm. NYOTA: Because I felt like she was trying to trick me in some kind of a way, but you get what you need. If it's something that I need to know, it comes to me it. It comes to me like. Believe me, it'll come to you. She was a little bit too adamant about what I needed and how the news was a part of it. It just felt a little not right and so, I actually stopped. DAMIEN: The news is a very specific thing like that word, the news [chuckles] Is anything new about it? [chuckles] The news is a group of organizations, a group of media organizations that are all very much alike. The Economist, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The L.A. Times, The Chicago Tribune, NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox News, MSNBC. These are all organizations that operate the same, they cover the same things, and they do them in largely the same way along of course, some political partisan differences. But it's not new and for most people, it does not serve them, or inform them. NYOTA: Yeah. It's very divisive. DAMIEN: I used to get my news from Jay Leno. [laughter] That was better than CNN more and funnier, too. NYOTA: That part. [laughs] I think it's just interesting how it's such a whole world with a whole bunch of people with various levels of experiencing, bumping into each other, and like you're saying, this is what everyone's reporting on. Nothing else happens? Nothing good happens anywhere else? CASEY: Yeah. NYOTA: Nothing? See, that's not true. [laughter] Like that can't be real for me and so, I'm not going to be able to include that in where I spend my time. JOHN: Yeah. I used to have NPR on in the car whenever I was in the car, I was like, “Oh, it'll keep me inform,” blah, blah, blah. But eventually, I was like, “You know what? They still talk about the same crap. They're just from a perspective I agree with slightly more.” But even when they do human interest stuff, or stuff that isn't about a war, or some sort of crisis in Washington, it's still so negatively biased. Even the stuff that's theoretically positive, it still has this weird you should be concerned about this vibe to it and eventually, I was realizing that there's no room for that in my life. DAMIEN: Yeah. We talk about how harmed full Facebook is to society and individuals. But this is not again, new. [chuckles] Facebook optimizes for engagement, which causes harm as a byproduct. It's the AI-fication of what media has been doing ever since there has been mass media. NYOTA: Yeah. It's interesting because there was a moment in there. So I even got on social media because I was always gone. I lived wherever I lived while I was in the military and so, it was a way to let my family know, “Okay, I'm here. Look, I ate this.” [chuckles] All of those things. So there was a part where Facebook made a drastic turn on my feed and I was like, “Ohm this is so bad!” And then I was like, “Okay, wait, wait. Who's bad? Who is this coming from?” So I cleaned up my whole Facebook feed and then it became a happy place again and then now where it is, it's a place where it's only seven people out of the thousand Facebook friends I have. I was like, “Okay, well that's not it either. That's not it.” So it's just interesting how AI has such a impact of what we listen to, or what we talk about. So now it's these days I'm like new shoes, new shoes, new shoes. Because I want that to come up on my – I don't even – you know what I'm saying? Because I know that you're listening, so I'll get it later. So now I almost treat it like an administrative assistant so I can look it up later. [laughter] CASEY: Hilarious. NYOTA: Yeah. JOHN: Please target some ads around shoes to me. NYOTA: I did. Yeah, because they're listening. CASEY: And it works, doesn't it? I know. NYOTA: Yes. CASEY: I know it works. NYOTA: Yes. CASEY: That still blows some people's minds. If you could say the name of a product and you'll see it the next day. If you have your ads on, it's listening and your phone is listening. Everyone's phone is listening. NYOTA: Yes, yes. Because you're looking at something like – I don't even really listen to the music. What is it? Spotify! And then it's like, you're listening to Spotify, but why is my mic on? You want to hear me sing the song? Why does my mic have to be on? I don't understand that part. Like why? They'll be like, “Oh, she has a great voice on her.” Is that why you're listening? [laughter] Why are you listening? I don't understand that part. So I don't know. DAMIEN: There's a deal coming your way. NYOTA: [laughs] Come on. Let's go. JOHN: I assume the public reason for it is so that you can do voice searches and like, “Hey, play me some more Rebecca Black,” or whatever. But who knows what else they're doing with it once you've got it turned on, right? It could be whatever. DAMIEN: Actually listening in on people is not the technically most effective way of getting those results. If you say the brand name of a shoe, it's probably because the people around you are talking about it and what do they search on Google? What ads have they seen? It's easier to say, “Oh, you're in the room with these people who are interested in these things,” or “You're in conversation with these people who are interested in these things. Let me show you these things without honing through massive amounts of audio data.” CASEY: Yeah. Both are possible and that one's easier. I'm sure they both happen and at what frequency, that's hard to study from beyond outside, but we know it's all possible and we know it's happening. If this is news to anyone listening, you can look this up. There are a million articles about it and they explain why and how, and some people did some empirical tests and I don't have any handy, but I've read it over and over and over on the internet and the internet's always right. NYOTA: That's what I heard [laughs] and not from the news. CASEY: I have these Google Home Minis in my house and all of them, the mics are off. So if ever the power cable gets jingled, it says, ‘Just so you know, the mic's off and I have to say it for a really long time. This is a very long recorded message. So that you'll want to turn your mic back on,” and it says that. Can you believe it? [laughter] DAMIEN: That's not the actual text of the message, right? I have to check. NYOTA: These little home speakers are cool in all the worst ways, but the best ways, too. So my Alexa, I'll be asking her whatever and then I'll say, “Thank you, Alexa,” and she'll say, “You're very, very, very, very welcome,” like she's singing, yes. [laughs] DAMIEN: Wow. You people have corporate spying devices in your homes. It's unbelievable. NYOTA: But you have one, too. It's just your phone. So we all have them. DAMIEN: Yeah. She promises me she doesn't listen unless I ask. NYOTA: That's what mine said! CASEY: Mine said it! [laughter] I don't trust them either. I don't even trust that the mic off necessarily works. Part of me is tempted to go in and solder the mic off. I never want the speakers to have the mic. I will not use that feature at my house. But I do want speakers in every room enough that I'm willing to take the risk of the switch not working. NYOTA: Yeah. At this point, I think I've just big brothers watching, or at least listening, [chuckles] Big brother really like, “Oh, I need to turn that off. She's talking about the big brother. We'll blush over here.” [laughs] CASEY: I want to go back to something I was thinking on the news. Sometimes I hear, or I know about things in the world because I'm someone who's in the world sometimes and the topics I want to hear in the news don't always come up. Like, DC Rank the Vote is happening and there was eventually an article about it and another article. I wrote one, eventually. Anyone can be a freelance journalist. So if the news isn't covering stuff you want it to. NYOTA: I like that. CASEY: You can literally write the news, too. NYOTA: Mm. CASEY: They might even pay you for it. DAMIEN: [chuckles] You can write the news, too. Say it again, Casey. CASEY: You can write the news, too. There's a really cool freelance journalism guide, that I'll put in the show notes, by someone in D.C. Chelsea Cirruzzo, I think. I didn't pronounce check that, but she wrote an awesome guide and it led me to getting an article published in Greater Greater Washington, a D.C. publication about ranked choice voting. I was like, “Why is no one talking about this? It's happening here. It's a big problem.” So I wrote about it. Other people write about it, too and they have since then, but you can be the change you want in the world. You can. Journalism is not as guarded and gated as it might seem. NYOTA: That's so interesting because I think what's interesting is we know that. We know that we can contribute, we know that we can write, but then you're like, “Wait, I can contribute! I can write!” CASEY: Mm. NYOTA: So I think that's, thank you for that reminder. CASEY: Yeah. But the how is hard and without a guide like Chelsea's, I'm not sure I would have broken in to do it. I needed her to go through it and tell me this is the process, here's the person in the org, what they do, what they expect and how you can make it easy for them, and you need the pitch to have this and that, has to be timely and like –. All that made sense. I'm like, “Oh sure, sure, sure.” But I couldn't have come up with that on my own, no way. NYOTA: But she bundled it together like that. CASEY: Yeah. DAMIEN: I would have never imagined that's a thing you can do because that's an entire degree program. That's a post-graduate degree program, if you'd like, and I see people who've been doing this for 20 years and do it poorly and they seem like smart people. [chuckles] So what makes me think I could do it? NYOTA: Because we can do whatever we want. CASEY: I mean, these publications do have editors and it's their job to help make the quality, at least meet the low bar at minimum that the publication expects. But if you are really nerded out on ranked choice voting, or something, you might be the local expert. If you're thinking about writing an article, you might be the best person to do it actually. NYOTA: Mm, that's good. That's the quota right there. CASEY: So what are you nerding out about lately? Anyone listening to this, think about that to yourself and is there an article about it you can just share? I like that. I don't have to write every article ever. If not, you can think about writing it. NYOTA: I like that. DAMIEN: And what strikes me is like where the bar is for local expert. Like I believe a 100% that you're the local expert on ranked choice voting because I know enough about ranked choice voting to know that people don't understand it. [chuckles] CASEY: Yeah. And after I wrote the article, I found a group of people and so, now there's like 10 of us at this level where we get it and we're advocating for it. But I'm one of the top 10 at that point still, sure. And there are details of it that I know, details other people know that I don't know, and we're all specialists in different nuanced details and together we're stronger and that's a community, too. It's been a lot of fun advocating for that in D.C. JOHN: That's awesome. NYOTA: It's interesting the visual that I'm getting in my head, like you're over here dancing by yourself and then you back up and they're like, “Oh shoot. Other people are dancing to this same song,” and then you look and you'd be like, “Look, y'all, we're all dancing,” but you're still the lead dancer and they're the backup. [laughter] I don't know why I got that visual. CASEY: I like this image. NYOTA: Yeah. CASEY: I want to give the other organizers some credit. I think they're the lead. But I found them eventually. I couldn't have found them if I didn't write the article probably. I looked it up. I Googled it once, or twice. They have a website, but I don't know, it didn't come up for me right away, or it did, but I didn't know how to contact them and getting into breaking into that community is its own barrier. NYOTA: That's unfortunate. But you're the lead to me. I mean, you're Casey. I mean [laughter] they're okay. CASEY: Thank you. NYOTA: I mean they're okay for what they're doing, but they're not you, so. No shade on what they're doing. CASEY: Sure. JOHN: I just posted a link to a talk by Derek Sivers about how the first followers are actually more important than the first leader and it's a fantastic talk. It's pretty short, but really amusing and it makes such a fantastic point. Like Casey, you were out there, you posted the article and then all these other people show up. So now I've got this like group of 10 and then those people – you and they are all doing outreach and they are expanding that group of people that are up to speed on this stuff and are advocating for it. So there's this nucleus and it's expanding and expanding. CASEY: Yeah, and each person we get, then they can bring in more people, too and it's a movement, it's growing. I think we'll have it soon. There's literally already a bill passed in D.C. It's passed a committee and now it's gone to the bigger committee, the whole process, but there's a real bill that's been passed some steps. NYOTA: You might as well do a TEDx. I mean, you might as well. JOHN: Yeah. CASEY: Good idea. Yeah, yeah. NYOTA: But they just let anybody do them. I have one. They just give them out. They're like, “Let Nyota do it.” “Okay. I'll just – let me do it.” You can do it. You have something to talk about, it's the same. It's like the news. Why not you? CASEY: Yeah. NYOTA: You're already talking about it. CASEY: True. NYOTA: I mean, you get a TEDx, you get a TEDx. [laughter] CASEY: Look at this, Nyota inspiring us. DAMIEN: I'm inspired. Why not me? NYOTA: No, really. DAMIEN: I'm serious. That is not sarcasm. I mean that very sincerely. I'm thinking about all the things I want. I'm going to call Casey later on and go, “Okay. You know how to bring ranked choice voting to a government. How are we going to bring it to another one?” And I think about all the other – CASEY: Yeah. DAMIEN: I'm actually trying to bring ranked choice voting to my neighborhood council. I pushed to an amendment to our bylaws, which has to be approved by another organization, which I can't seem to get ahold of. [laughs] But we're doing it and why shouldn't we be doing it? Why not us? NYOTA: Why not? CASEY: Yeah. Oh, I've got resources to share with you. We'll talk later, Damien. JOHN: Well, that's also great because that again, is going to spread. Once the local organization is doing it, people start getting experience with it. They're like, “Oh yeah, we did it for this thing and it worked out great. Now I sort of understand how it works in practice. Why the heck aren't we doing it for the city council and for the governor?” And like, boom, boom, boom. DAMIEN: Yeah. Ranked choice voting is interesting because as much as people don't understand it, it's really simple [chuckles] and I think overwhelmingly, people need experience with something to understand it. CASEY: Yeah. Yeah. DAMIEN: And we have a lot of experience with plurality voting in this country, in my country at least. We have almost none with ranked choice voting. NYOTA: I think it's interesting how people get so excited about presidential elections and that sort of thing, but your life really happens at your local elections. CASEY: So true. NYOTA: Your quality of life is your local elections, like you're talking about these roads being trashed. Well, that's at the local. Biden and Kamala, they have nothing to do with those potholes all along this road. I think so people miss that. You're like, “Those elections are great. Presidential election, awesome.” But your local elections? Those are what matter for where you live and I'm like, “Why are people missing that?” CASEY: Yeah. DAMIEN: I think it goes back to the news. CASEY: Sure. That's a part. NYOTA: Darn you, news. [laughs] DAMIEN: Right, because national news is leveraged. NYOTA: Mm. DAMIEN: The national broadcast is made once and broadcast to 300 million people in the country. Local news does not have that leverage. CASEY: True. NYOTA: Mm. They need to get their social media presence together then because people are listening to Instagram. CASEY: I'm thinking about everyone's mental model of how change happens, too and I don't think a lot of people have a very developed mental model of what it takes to make change happen. I do a workshop on this actually and one of the examples I use is for gay marriage in the US. You can see the graph; you can look it up. We'll include in the show notes, a picture of gay marriage over time and it's like one's place, one's at another place, like very small amount. Just maybe not even states like counties, or some lower level, a little bit of traction, a little bit of traction, a little traction. Eventually, it's so popular that it just spikes and it's a national thing. But along the way, you might look here from the news that when it became a national thing, that's the first time, that's the first thing you heard about it. But along the way, there was all these little steps. So many little steps, so many groups advocating for it, and the change happened over time. I also think about the curve of adoption. It's a bell curve. For the iPhone, for example, some people got it really early and they were really into this thing. Like PalmPilots were really the earlier edge of smart devices. Some people had that; they're really nerdy. Some people are still holding out on the other end of the bell curve. Like my mom's best friend, she still has a flip phone and she doesn't have any interest in a smartphone. I don't blame her. She doesn't need it. But she's the lagger, the very far end lagger of on this model and to get change to happen, you've got to start on whoever is going to adopt it sooner and actually like get them involved. Like the smaller states, the smaller counties that are going to support gay marriage or whatever the issue is, get them to do it and then over time you can get more of the bell curve. But a lot of people think change happens when you get the national change all of a sudden, but there's so much earlier than that. So, so, so much. Like years. 30, 40, 50, a 100 years sometimes. [chuckles] NYOTA: Yeah. This is the dance that John was talking about that he posted about this. CASEY: The first follower, yeah. NYOTA: Yeah, first followers. But you get to be the first leader if you allow it. If you really want change like you're saying. Instead of looking for someone to follow, [chuckles] we get to decide how we want to live. DAMIEN: Yeah. This seems true at work. If there's a cultural norm you don't like, you can change it by getting your allies on board and aware of it, socializing it and more and more people and gradually over time and eventually, that thing's not happening anymore. Like, I don't know. An example is eating at your desk over lunch. Not the best social norm. I don't want that at places I work. I want people to take a break, rest, and be better off afterwards. But you can get it to happen gradually by getting more people to go to lunch room, or go out of the office and you can change the culture in the office with enough dedication and time if you put your mind it. NYOTA: Yeah. But what we don't get to do is complain about it. Right? [chuckles] CASEY: Mm. Whenever I have some kind of conflict, I think about do I want to accept it and stop complaining, or do something about it? NYOTA: Mm. CASEY: Or I guess the third option is neither and then I'm just frustrated. I don't like to choose that one if I can ever avoid it. [chuckles] Do something, figure out that I can do something like work on it, or accept it, which is kind of giving up. But you can't do every change you ever think of. NYOTA: No. CASEY: It's not really giving up. Acceptance does not mean giving up, but it does mean you can put your mind down and focus on other stuff. NYOTA: Yeah. That's triage. That's what that is. [laughs] CASEY: Triage. Yeah, yeah. [laughter] DAMIEN: That third option is really important because I choose that a lot. It's important to know that and acknowledge it. [chuckles] It's like, oh no, I've chosen to be frustrated. Okay. NYOTA: Yeah. Good. CASEY: And you can, yeah. Sometimes when I choose to be frustrated, it's that I'm still working on it. I'm working on figuring out if I can do anything, or not. I don't know yet. DAMIEN: For me, it's I'm not willing to do, or figure out what it is to do, but I'm also not yet willing to accept it so I just shouldn't to be frustrated. CASEY: Sure, yeah, yeah. DAMIEN: And the frustration. If I acknowledge that and recognize that, the frustration can better lead me to go, “Okay, no.” Making the change stinks. But [chuckles] the frustration is worse and lasts longer, so. NYOTA: And then you start speaking from your frustration, which is even worse [laughs] and then it bleeds over. CASEY: Not effective. NYOTA: Yeah, it bleeds over into other things and because now you're saying stuff like, “See, this is what I'm talking about.” [laughter] No, I don't. No, I don't see what you're – no. Are we talking about the same thing? Because now you're just frustrated all over the place. CASEY: Yeah. [laughter] NYOTA: What are you talking about again? Are you talking about work? CASEY: When someone's in that situation, I have to ask them, “Would you like to be effective at this?” DAMIEN: Ooh. [laughter] NYOTA: Oh, that's a shank. [laughter] CASEY: They might not want to be. They might just want to vent. That's fine. It helps me set my standards, too. Like, do they want support, or do they want to vent? NYOTA: I'm going to write that down. CASEY: I mean, it sounds pointy. Here's my blunt side showing. I meant it. You can answer yes, or no. It's why it's a question. I'm not going to give you obvious answer question. I expect one. NYOTA: Yeah. That's good right there because I'm just getting to the part where I'm like, “Do you want me to help, or you just want me to listen?” Because I'll be like, “Oh, I know the answer to this!” And they'll be like, “Oh, I don't. You always trying to help!” First of all, stop talking to me then. [laughter] DAMIEN: Can you tell my friends that? NYOTA: Right? CASEY: Yeah. NYOTA: Like don't come to me because I just want to help. I've got a solution and if you don't want a solution, don't talk to me. CASEY: Sure, sure. That's the kind of support you're offering. NYOTA: Yeah. CASEY: You're offering that support and if they want it, great. If they don't, sounds like you're setting the boundary. Good. NYOTA: Right, right. Oh, I don't have a – no, I have no problems setting a boundary. Yeah, no problems because the thing is this is your third time. Like at some point, you need to either want to do something, or quit talking to me about this. CASEY: Yeah. NYOTA: Like that part. CASEY: I'm pretty patient supporting friends like that, but there is a limit to the patience. Yeah, three. That sounds like pretty good. I might even go to six for some people before I start telling them no. NYOTA: Mm. CASEY: [laughs] I mean, “You have to do something, or complain to someone else.” NYOTA: Yeah. Like, are you going to do something – are we still talking about this like? CASEY: Yeah. Some people need the support, but it's not necessarily me they're going to get it from because I don't have that much energy and time to put toward that. NYOTA: Yeah. I just think that's important to, but my friends know that already. Like, don't talk to me about your allergies, or don't talk to me about your fitness, or you can't fit your clothes. For me, I don't buy new clothes because I can't fit them. I won't allow myself to do that. CASEY: Some people do. NYOTA: Yeah, so – [overtalk] DAMIEN: I'm sorry. Buy clothes you can't fit? NYOTA: No, I don't buy new clothes because I can't fit my old ones. DAMIEN: Ah, okay. NYOTA: Right. DAMIEN: I know that one. NYOTA: I only buy new clothes because I want new clothes. DAMIEN: Mm. NYOTA: I put that around myself like, it's not because I don't want to go outside and walk, or you know. But then I don't allow myself to get too thin in the other direction either, because that means I'm doing something that's probably not that healthy, like not eating real food. I will just eat potato chips and that's it. [chuckles] So I have to – like, if it's too far to the left, or to the right, then I know that I'm doing something that's not healthy. I've got to reel myself in. I don't have any other checkers. I'm my own self-checker. I don't have a spouse that's going to be like, “Hmm, those jeans look a little snug.” [chuckles] I don't have it. [laughs] It's just – [overtalk] DAMIEN: Well, what I'm hearing, though is it's going to be, you set a high bar for checking people. So for somebody to check you, they're going to have to be really insightful and not candy-coated. NYOTA: I don't like candy. CASEY: Yeah. [laughter] NYOTA: Yeah. CASEY: Like direct. NYOTA: Yeah, because I don't need a bunch of like, “Oh, Nyota. How are you today?!” You don't really have to be like, “Oh, so I heard what you said about that.” I don't think that – that's not right, or however the check comes, like however it comes. CASEY: Yeah. NYOTA: But I want that because I know I'm not right about everything. I know that and I don't pretend to be all-knowing. I just want somebody to kind of reel me in sometimes like reel me in. Please reel me in. [laughter] Because I'll just keep – I'm a habitual line stepper. You know what I'm saying because now I'm just going to keep on seeing what you're going to let me slide with. Even as a kid, my mom was like, “You're always everywhere.” Like, “You're always – like, “We could never find –” I was the kid that why they came out with those harnesses for kids. [laughter] That's – CASEY: What an image. NYOTA: Yeah. I'm that kid because I just want to see, I want to go look, I want to go what's over here. Like what's around. Are you going to let me slide? Are you going to let me say that one? What else you're going to let me slide with? It's that so that's why they created those harnesses for kids like me. [chuckles] DAMIEN: Your bio says your firm thrives at the intersection of cybersecurity and employee wellness. What's the intersection of cybersecurity and employee wellness? JOHN: I was just going to ask that. I want to know! NYOTA: I think it's resiliency. DAMIEN: Mm? NYOTA: Yeah. So cybersecurity is that resiliency within organizations and then that wellness of people is that resiliency that's within humans. When those two come together, it's a healthier—I can't say fully healthy. It's a healthier work environment because when we get to show up to work healthy, resilient, drinking water, getting rest, being able to have emotional intelligence, social intelligence; all of those things are what I count as being resilient. And then when you can show up to work that way, then you're not showing up to negatively impact the network because you're not focused. You're not paying attention. You're clicking on every link because it looked like it – it seemed fine. But had you been like you had one moment of awareness to pause, you would see oh, this is not right. When I put my mouse over that, I see that the link at the bottom is not where I'm supposed to be going. So that place is resiliency at work. DAMIEN: That is an extremely advanced view of security, maybe it's from your time as an officer, but the general view of security is it's this wall you put up and you make the wall really secure, you make the wall really strong and really tall, and that way you keep everything out. It's like, well, no. Anybody who has gone to office training school knows about defense in depth. NYOTA: Right. DAMIEN: Knows you can't maintain any particular perimeter indefinitely. The French found that out to much of their chagrin. [laughs] NYOTA: Oopsie. DAMIEN: That's a Emmanuel line reference. That's not news. [laughter] To go all the way to like – and I see where you're going with this. Phishing emails don't work on people who are calm and relaxed when nothing's urgent. NYOTA: Yes. DAMIEN: Where they can go, where they can stop and think, and have that wherewithal and that energy and that reserve. NYOTA: Right, even at home. Especially how all of these scams are on the rise, Navy, federal, IRS, all kinds of people. If you're just one moment aware, you'd be like, “Wait, have I ever engaged my bank in this way?” DAMIEN: Hm mm. NYOTA: Like ever? Have they ever called me and asked me for my six digit? They called me and I didn't call them? Like, I just think if you just take a breath and then think part of being resilient is being able to take more breaths. DAMIEN: Wow. Yeah. Wow. CASEY: Ooh, I like that line. NYOTA: Yeah. We know that one of the biggest vulnerability to cybersecurity posture of anything that happens is people because we are normally that vulnerability, we're normally that weakness in the network because we are human. So anything that we get to do to reinforce ourselves, guard ourselves up, it's always going to have a positive second, third, fourth order of effects. DAMIEN: How does upper management react to that when you come in and say, “We're going to improve your cybersecurity, give your employees more days off”? NYOTA: So I'm actually new having this conversation within leadership, but they already have leadership corporations, they already have this structure in place. Just haven't heard anyone tie it together specifically to their cybersecurity posture. So there's already a lot of wellness initiatives, you can talk to counselors. I think we already have these initiatives in place, but they're just kind of ethereal, they're kind of out here, but to say, “Now tie that not just to our bottom line, because employees are less willing to have turnover, but let's tie it to the security of the network because our employees are aware and they're more vigilant.” So it's just kind of helping them to see the work that we're already doing within corporations. We get to laser focus that into a place. CASEY: Hmm. I like it that this gives way to measuring the outcome of those programs, too. You can correlate it, too. NYOTA: Yeah, instead of like, “Oh, we're happy at work. We're skipping and holding hands down the hallway.” Well, that may not necessarily be what you want, but you do want less infractions on the network. More opportunities to be successful but not having to spend so many manhours undoing cybersecurity risk. CASEY: I want to zoom out. I want to go meta with you. You're helping them become more resilient. How do you make sure your changes there are resilient? When you leave, they persist? You can Mary Poppins out and they're still the way they were before you arrive. NYOTA: Mm, that's a good question. So during the time that we work together, they also buy a bundle of coaching. They have opportunity to come back for where I can do, like, “Hey, y'all it's time for the refresh,” and not in a lame way. I'm actually creating on workshops now and it involves coloring books. Because when we were in Afghanistan, Iraq, and all the places we colored, and I just feel like coloring saves lives and when I'm saying people, I'm talking about mine, because it is very calming and not those crazy ones that are really small and you have to have a pen. So I'm talking about a 5th-grade coloring book with big pictures where it's relaxing and you're talking amongst your peers. It involves that. Setting them up with skills to be able to well, if you do nothing else, make sure you're playing the gratitude game in the mornings. What is the gratitude game? I play this game with myself. Every morning when I wake up, I say three things that I'm grateful for, but it can't be anything that I've ever said ever before. DAMIEN: Mm hm. NYOTA: I play this game. It's always making you search for the gratitude, always looking for that shiny light. There's always a better today, a better tomorrow, and so, even if there's something as that and drink water, because there's a lot of things that happens when you're dehydrated. There's a lot of clarity that doesn't happen when you're thirsty and so, even if it's just those two things and reminding people, just those two things have even had an impact on my life. Do you see my skin popping? Do you? [laughter] I'm just saying. Water is your friend. [laughs] So just those, just kind of even a pop in, a retraining. Hey, remember. Remember sleep, remember relaxing, remember get up and walk around your cube, and the filter water is so much better. It tastes so much better than bottled water. I'm just, it's better. I'm holding up my filtered water. Picture here, I keep it at my desk while I work if I'm on a lot of calls in a row. NYOTA: Yeah. CASEY: I can go through water. NYOTA: And that's why you're alert. I don't think people understand that being dehydrated really makes you lethargic and you're like, “Are they talking? I see their mouth moving. I can't pay attention. What is happening. What is that?” And being dehydrated is not good. Don't do that. Just take a little sip of water. We're talking about water, just take a little sip of your water. Go get some water. [chuckles] If you're listening, get some water. [laughs] CASEY: Reminders help. I'm going to post one of my favorite Twitter accounts, @selfcare_tech. NYOTA: Ooh. Please. CASEY: And they do a water reminder probably every day. Something like that. So I'll just be on Twitter and I'm like, “Oh yeah. Thanks.” DAMIEN: [laughs] See, we can turn social media even to our good. CASEY: Yeah. We can find some benefit. NYOTA: But we get to decide and I think that's another thing that people don't. Like, they negate the fact that you get to decide. You get to decide where your life is, or isn't. You get to decide where you're going to accept, or not accept. You're going to decide if I work at this job, it's for my greater good, or not. We get to decide that. You've already created your life up to this point. So what does it look like later? We've created this life that we have and people take responsibility for that. Who do you get to be tomorrow? Who do you get to be today? The thing is we always get what we ask for. So I've been asking for a bold community, I've been asking for a community that pushes and pulls me and here comes Casey, here comes Andrea, here comes you guys and I'm like, “I think that's so interesting.” We do get what we ask for you. CASEY: It sounds like you're manifesting the world around you. I like that word. NYOTA: Yeah. CASEY: I don't even mean it in a metaphysical spiritual sense, but even just saying. Back when I was an engineering manager and I wanted to become a PM, I told people I wanted to be a product manager and by telling a lot of people, I got a lot more opportunities than I would have. NYOTA: Yes. CASEY: Telling people was very powerful for that. NYOTA: And in my Christian Nyota way, that's what happens. Miracles come through people. So give people an opportunity to be your miracle. JOHN: So we've come to the time on our show where we do reflections, which is each of us is going to talk about the things that struck us about this conversation, maybe the things will be thinking about afterwards, or the ideas we're going to take forward. Casey, do you want to start us off? CASEY: Yeah. I wrote down a quote from Nyota. She said earlier in this episode, “A big part of resilience is being able to take more breaths,” and I just think that applies anywhere the word resilience applies and I want to meditate on that for over the week. JOHN: I'm right there with you. That is really sinking in and applicable in so many ways. I love it. DAMIEN: Yeah, and involving taking some breaths while you do that, huh? [laughter] I am really inspired by this conversation. The ideas of you can be the expert, you can be the journalist, you can be the first mover, the first leader. Realizing that in my life, I'm going to be looking for ways I want to apply that conscientiously. How to make sure not to try apply it everywhere. [laughs] But I get to decide. I get to decide who I am and who I'm going to be in this world and what this world is going to be like for me, so that's awesome. NYOTA: That is good. I like that one, too. And along those lines for me, it's like when Casey's like, “I mean, I knew this, I knew this, I knew this, I knew this, but when someone had created this bundle for you to be able to follow, I really heard when we do things, leave breadcrumbs so someone can come behind us and also be able to support. Because if you don't – leave some breadcrumbs. So I thought that was – she was like, “I knew these things but she had created this framework for you to be able to do it, too,” and I heard leave some breadcrumbs. So I really like that. DAMIEN: Yeah. John, do you have a reflection for us? JOHN: No, I mean, really, it's the same as Casey's. [laughs] Yeah, that statement is really going to sit with me for a while. I like it a lot. CASEY: I'm going to make a t-shirt of it. NYOTA: [laughs] I love a good t-shirt. DAMIEN: Well, Nyota. Thank you so much for joining us today. NYOTA: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored to be amongst such caring, intelligent, thoughtful people and so, I appreciate you all for having me. Special Guest: Nyota Gordon.

Why are you helping everyone else make money and then not doing it yourself? An area that people struggle in a lot is investing, and that is exactly what we're going to be talking about today. More specifically we'll be talking about making money in land sales. Today we have on an expert guest, Brent Bowers. He has a company called land sharks, and he's going to walk us through how the fuck we split land, how we sell land, what the fuck we do with land. Over the last seven years, Brent has been able to build a business that generates upwards of $50,000 – PER MONTH – in passive income. So, let's hear what the expert has to say!Three Things You'll Learn in This EpisodeWhat land sales is and why they matterHow to generate a passive incomeThe risks of flipping and how to avoid themResourcesLearn more about Brent & His BusinessReal Estate Marketing DudeThe Listing Advocate (Earn more listings!)REMD on YouTubeREMD on InstagramTranscript:What's up, ladies and gentlemen, welcome. Another episode of the real estate marketing dude, podcast folks we're gonna be chatting about today is doing things different. It's what we chat about in every single episode that we have here. And when we're gonna talk about doing things different, we're going to talk about investing differently. I get a message we get a lot of people asked to be on the show. And we turn most of them down unless they actually have somebody that like is superduper. Interesting. And who we got today is that we often hear, and just a couple of weeks ago, we actually had a show on how agents are going to plan their retirement. And then what are you gonna do when you think about retiring? We had a show a couple weeks ago, again, that said, Hey, why aren't you investing? Why are you helping everyone else make money and then you're not fucking doing it yourself. So one of the biggest struggles and what I'm excited about today is that this is an area like I used to dabble a lot in investing, and I'm trying to get back into it, to be honest with you. One of the areas I never knew how to make money in was land sales. Like how do you make money on vacant land? There's no income producing, what are you going to rent parking spaces? How do you do it? You subdivide it. And it's just a topic that a lot of people don't traditionally talk about. But today we have on an expert guest this is all this dude does. He does land sales. He has a company called land sharks, and he's going to walk us through how the fuck we split land, how we sell land, what the fuck we do with land. And we're going to learn all about land sales. Agents, listen to me. If you are not adapting an investor friendly mindset, you are going to be losing business, it's period. Just real estate license only gives you the permission to legally collect money, it doesn't earn anyone's business, the more knowledgeable you are on different facets of business, whether you're investing whether you're cash flowing, or you're helping the traditional residential home buyer or seller. The more skills you have, the more you get paid. And if you want to get paid in the future, you need those skills. So without further ado, let's go ahead and introduce our guest, Mr. Brent Bowers. Brent, what is up, dude?Hey, Mike, you know, I'm really excited to be on here. I know, when we first jumped on, I was like, What the heck, this came on my calendar. What is it now? I'm really excited. I love the energy, like you're good at what you do, sir. Thank you. So I'm fired up ready to go to talk to some real estate agents and some investors and lenders. You know, when I was a realtor, I remember like, it was a constant treadmill of deals. And after I got that, that person that are home or or sold that person's home, or I was even driving tenants around back in 2008, when I was a real estate agent, a real estate agent, but it was a it was a transaction treadmill, I like to do stuff that I get paid for a very long time on, you know, sometimes 30 years. That's my preferred method. So that kind of changed. My mindset changed a little bit because I worked we worked our butts off, as well. I used to work my butt off as a real estate agent.Yeah, it's nonstop. It's the peaks and valleys and you're up and down. Stressful every month, a new month. It feels like fucking Groundhog's Day. I mean, it really does. If you guys have ever watched that movie, you wake up like Oh, shit, this transaction goes and you get another pain. Yes client and you guess what, you just do it over and over again. But a lot of real estate agents start off in that position. And then they venture off into different things. Like I ended up as a fucking marketing dude. You know, I sold real estate for 18 years did a lot of short sale, investing and all that. And there's different avenues that a lot of people or industry move on to because they let's be honest, they burn out in the real estate industry. Tell them a little bit about where you're at. And then I want to get into about how you got into lead. So you were a real estate agent, but give him your name. Tell them a little bit about your first and then let's get into that.Yeah, I bought my first Well, I got my real estate license in 2007. I actually thought I needed a real estate license to be a good investor because I was like, I'm gonna get all the deals as they come across my desk. Well, one of my sister agents listed a house and I put an offer on it. I thought that's what we were supposed to do. Because I was gonna be an investor. So I put the offer on it. They accept it. I need the earnest money deposit and this is 2007 I wasn't like rolling Joe, I had a lawn and landscape company and I went to get my real estate license and got it took me three times it passed that freakin test by the way, that stuff is hard. And I had to borrow the earnest money deposit from my grandma. And I got paid a commission to buy the house, which is I mean, I got paid to buy real estate, you hear about that in the seminars, you go to right? And rented it out. And then 2008 kicked my butt by 2009 to join the military because I wanted to go back to school kind of start something new. I got got in my head that I like, why can I Why should I be able to be a success in real estate? Everyone else is failing at it right now. So I got that in my head. And I quit. join the military. I'm in Afghanistan before I know it, and then back for a year and then back to Afghanistan. And they pulled me out to send me to college in 2013. Well, I still had that real estate bug that itch the entrepreneurship edge. You know, I was renting a house from a guy. And it was beautiful from the outside, but the inside it's just like stunk like cat pee, because he'd never changed the litter box. Sure. I was like, This guy is renting a house for me. I'm paying him $550 A month. I'm sure his mortgage is like 800 I'm gonna do this myself. I'm going to buy a house next to the college and rent out three of the rooms and make money. I didn't realize it's called House hacking. I'llsay I can Yeah. I love it. Thank you for your service. First off, we appreciate that. Every day, especially nowadays, with all the craziness going on. In 2009 Were you like, getting your ass kicked by the market? Like fuck it. I'm gonna go to the military because I don't I was gonna go on because at that time the world was burning.Got it, Mike. I was getting my butt kicked every day. It was so bad. I went from owning a business, a real estate license. I have a rental property. I'm married. Yeah. And I had to move in with my in laws because we couldn't afford our rent anymore. Because we moved over to the coast and I'm now humbled. I'm starting to think like, I suck I need to do something with my life. So I did I joined the military got really humbled when I went in as an E one getting paid nothing. And I was like doing little extra things in basic training like making the beds and pulling Fire guard and just making a little extra money here and there to send to pay, you know, my back debts like I was I owed money. So 2013 Things are on the rise again. And I got some equity pretty I bought the house at a really good price. I pulled out the equity with a VA streamline bought another rental use sweat equity to build that rented it out. And now it's time to move to Colorado. So I basically bought a house there for us to live in me and my wife and then bought a triplex with the equity from the other properties. But one thing I found out was like buying all these rentals with value add needing fix up, you go in debt pretty quickly. Like I've now maxed out all these credit cards and Home Depot card and student I used student loans to fix up houses by the way.Yeah. Gotta do what you got to do, man. Yeah.So I'm like, Okay, there's got to be a better way. So I start Wholesaling Houses, like getting them under contract at a discount and then selling the contract. Well, the problem with that was you had to spend time with these sellers and figure out what the problem was and solve it. I'm an Army officer, I'm working like 13 hour days. And I was still searching for answers listening to podcasts like you know, the the marketing dude like this stuff like this, like searching for answers. I heard a guy doing land and I was like, No one does land. I'm driving by land every single day and I don't realize a way to make money on it. And I heard of what he was doing. And I was like, You know what, I'm avoiding mailing the lands. So I started mailing the land. Immediately. I was mailing the tax delinquent list, the county held tax lien lists all the list. And I just blasted out 680 postcards, got a bunch of phone calls, did two deals within two weeks. Each one netted me a little over 4500. And I was hooked. Interesting where we are today.Yeah, I bet you and if you guys aren't, like haven't chased motivated sellers before most people will go target. You know, you pull up tax records, and you look for distress points, whether it's financial constraints are whatever it may be, right. But nobody fucking mails the landowners, unless you're a developer, right? So like, but traditionally these people are getting if you if you know the space, these people get bombarded by everybody trying to buy their house. So whether you're an app if you're an absentee owner right now, you're getting a mailing piece a month, no doubt because that's that's whatever, that's whatever. Yeah, that's what everybody does at least one but you're probably getting one from like four different people, especially if you're like in Phoenix or Florida, or some of these crazy markets right now. But yeah, that's interesting, because direct mail you guys are still the number one way to reach a lot of people because it'll get 100% deliverability rate you're you can't say that for any other form of communication or channel to reach and it's tangible so people see it just but really quickly as well. I mean, guess what's on the card. I'm guessing the postcard said, hey, I'll buy your piece of land.You got It's like, Hey, my name is Brent. If you'd like a fair cash offer for your land, call me.You don't have to get super creative because everyone's always like, what's the content on the cards? If I'm going to direct mail be what's the contents like knowing dude, you gotta realize you cut right to the chase. Hey, I want to buy your shit. You're interested call me. Here's my fucking cell phone number dude, you know, like, like, and then the more unprofessional works, the better that usually the stuff on direct mail works. Alright, so whatare what happened? I might use that. That's amazing, actually. And it's handwritten is Oh, yeah, three, three and a half by five, like the cheapest card you can get. Um, so the first one, I had no clue what I was getting into. It was two lots on the side of a mountain looking at, you know, the Pikes Peak National Forest and Palmer lake. So me and my wife drive down there with our newborn baby, and I'm like, this is beautiful land. And guess what the seller told me he's like, look, it's yours for $285 Take it off my hands. And this guy was no dummy. He was a CPA retired. He's like, I traded this like 10 years ago. I'm ready to be done. Like get it off my hands. You already $5 You bought the land for you got it, Mike. Got it. So I'm like, Okay, I'm second guessing myself. So we drove down there. I'm like, holy cow. So we found that it wasn't buildable. Because there's only one ingress egress. The firefighters won't let you build because like they can get pinned down. And the city is not letting them build a road over the railroad tracks. So I call the first real estate office. I see. I'm like, if anybody knows it's gonna be the real estate office right down the road. Well, long story short, that realtor ended up making an offer on it. On the spot, basically, I was like, hey, what's the blowout price? How can I get rid of this for on the MLS? Can you list it? She's like, maybe 10 grand. And she goes gave me the whole backstory of that area. Like she was educated on it on a Saturday to this woman is a rockstar. So she called I hung up with her. I thanked her for a time I said, I'll let you know when I own it. So you can list it. She calls me back within like five minutes and says, Hey, Brent, what if I bought it from you? She offered me five grand for it. And she said I can close in a few days. I was like, please send the contract deal. So I paid the seller on Tuesday got my $5,000 Check on Wednesday, it was that quick. And I'm like there's no way this could be that easy. And did another one a week later. And that same scenario. Very similar, not accessible, not buildable surrounded by if you notice I'm talking about like very inefficient land here when I'm starting out. And no one has ever mailed these guys. So that's why they're like, just take it like this one was 500 bucks, almost five acres surrounded by a state land which is a beautiful area. I put it on Craigslist bought on Saturday for 500 Put it on Craigslist that night, sold it on Sunday for $500 down, I got my investment back out of the property. And then $400 a month, and I now had passive income. My paradigm shifted. Because of this time I'm ready to go the military. I have a wife, a brand new baby, and I want to be home more often. Sure. Um, because I was always gone, always deployed, always training and that's not good on a marriage. And I'm missing my son. Yeah, um, so that gave me $400 A month it paid my truck payment and I was like I told my wife I was like, if we can just keep doing this. If we do this 12 times that will cover our entire outgoing each month that's that's gonna give us magistrate resilience.You're holding the paper, you're calling around selling it and you're holding paper and people are paying you back. Yes, sir. Love it. Wow. All right. So let me I got a couple questions. I know a couple of people in New treadmills. Like what the book Bub used to lose $400 Alright, so let's start through and just look at land in general. So overall, is a strategy here, that you guys have been using or you've been using is, is you find people who want to sell land, they're probably gonna do a little bit of a discount, and you just turn around and bring it to someone who's more knowledgeable in the area, and then they sell it. Or is because it's cheap land like what how, what are the price points? Like what do you shy away from? Are you only buying land in the hundreds of dollars range? That makes a lot of sense to me, cuz there's probably a lot of those. Or are you buying land like, Are you searching land for 300,000? You're looking lots and all that stuff. So where does it started? What type of land because like in real estate, we could go condos or we could buy townhomes we could go single family homes, we go multifamily. So what type of land deals do you go after them today,I target the entire county because here's the thing. The ones I stay away from are the ones that I can't get at a discount and sell for a profit because that's at the end of the day. All I'm doing is buying it for one price and selling it for a little bit more. And I love holding up the note because that gives me time freedom and gives me passive income. Some of these I've sold on 30 year mortgages at 9% interest. I mean if you get a $200,000 mortgage from the bank at 6% interest, you keep it for 30 years and never refinance. You're paying back over 420 Like that's compounding interest working for you. That's a retirement account basically. So I target the entire county because it allows me to build a buyer's list in that county, because some people are looking for that four acres, some people are looking for that one acre, some people are looking for the 36, or the 440 acres. So I basically try and get every every parcel at a discount. My third deal was actually from a bank, the land with his 44 acres next to Schriever Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, in the banks, that bank wanted, like a lot of money for it, but they had that they foreclosed on it, basically. And they are behind on their taxes. That's how I found them. And I wanted it for 20 because I was so nervous. I didn't know I didn't have 20 grand, by the way. But I was like, Okay, if it's worth maybe 80 I'm getting it for like 20 cents on the dollar, or maybe what 2040 6080 I'm getting it for like, cheese 1/4 of what it's worth. Sure. So I can go for 20 About a month went by and they find is like, dude, listen, Brent, you want the damn land, it's 25,000 Sign the contract, and we'll do it. Well, this was a Friday night, like, whatever, I signed it, and I didn't sleep that night, I was like, This is crazy. I don't have $25,000 They're gonna sue me, I'm going to go to jail, I'm gonna, they're gonna take my security, or they're going to take my my secret clearance away, because blah, blah, blah, I had all these things going on in my head. And fear and doubt what I did I remember one of my coaches telling me if you ever get a piece of land under discount, or under contract at a discount or house at a discount, and you want to offload that contract, go out and put 33 bandit signs saying, you know, three to must sell your phone number cash only. So what did I do? I put 44 acres 38k had it under contract for 25. My phone number and I put those signs everywhere on a Saturday, and I got a phone call. First one was like, don't you put these signs on my property? Come back here are gonna call the police. So I got another phone call. And I'm now bracing for impact. Yeah. And the guy goes, where are you? I see these signs going up everywhere. Me and my wife sold our ranch in in Texas about two weeks ago. And we have been driving all over Colorado looking for land. And I see these signs going up. And me and that man met on the side of the road shook hands at $38,000 I had my buyer. I was gonna I slept so good that night, on Saturday and great what happened on Sunday? I got an even higher offer of 14,000 over what that man and I shook hands on. And now I had a crossroads. I'm like, What do I do? And I'm calling that Texas Texan gentleman and said, Hey, I know that we agreed on 38,000. I just had a $14,000 higher offer. He goes we shook hands on. It's like I know. I was wondering if maybe you wanted to split that 14,000 I'll give you seven grand for just meet me on the side of the road because that was life changing money back in 2016 For me, and he said no, I want the land. So I had to like swallow real hard. And I said, Okay, it's yours. And that was it. Like we just kept doing these deals over and over and over andover. Sometimes Karma comes back and pays you for though dude. Like one thing in real estate investing, like even we just do a lot of short sales. And we never took advantage of people. And I always kept our word. And I'm telling you guys, if you ever tried to pull it over, I guarantee you that God's gonna pay you back one day some way and never fails. It's common like, right, and that's good, good for you way to keep that. That's from the service for sure.That was hard. One of the hardest things ever did. Yeah. Well, thank God to this day, I am so happy that that's the way it worked out.So let's go let's fast forward today. Let's say for somebody that does have some capital, somebody that does have something to invest, where are the deals and one of the most lucrative I mean, it's really you're just buying low selling high. I mean, what do you turn down? What don't you do? And then how much diligence you have to tie in between like, do you do a 10 day? Contingency when you when you want to go out there and find the buyer? And will you ever close on land if that buyer is not located?Absolutely, yeah, we do all the time. Now I built up so much confidence in this like if you're getting something at such a margin of safety such a steep discount, 30 cents on the dollar 20 cents of the dollar, it's almost a no brainer, because Americans think how much is it going to cost me each month, not the total purchase price. So buyers will pay nine 12% and finances as long as you make easy affordable payments. Well I don't always have the my own cash my own cash to buy this. So like I just use my father in law to buy three lots. We are listing it with a builder and they're going to build to suit right on it. So that's one deal. We are buying 36 acres that we are going to develop and I don't have thelet's actually here's how they're gonna let's go through each one of those because I think if we apply the application to it and more of like a case study, I think they're going to get your out of this. Give me that first one that's interesting. The builder so you locate three residential lots. Yep. So your lease it to him and then he builds the suit but he's not having to buy their ticket on the land. So it works for him right? Got verysimilar. So we actually just went into a new market in Florida. And we got three lots under contract. And I I said, Look, we don't have a buyer's list in this area. So what I Googled builders, Palm Bay, Florida, this is the area so I called every single builder in that area and said, Hey, I've got three lots, here's the street. Let me know if you want them left a message. And some sent me their voicemails some some I text as well. If I left a message, I also texted them. And then some sent me like, hey, send it to this email. Well out of those like calling those 15 builders, one of them said, Look, I'm actually building right on the street right now. You can list those things with a house model that I do. It's an Eco Friendly House, they won't have a electric or water bill because it's all solar panel, yada yada. He said you can you could price I said What can I sell the lot for the actual land? He said 30,000 to two easy, no problem. Well, I'm buying them for 15,000 each. So I'm spending 45 We're gonna make 90 and I use my father in law. We're paying him 9% on his money for the next three months. And I asked us like what, what is the most amount of time this could take to sell it to someone that wants to build a home because there's only 300 houses on the market in Brevard County right now. And that includes multifamily duplexes. triplexes, mobile homes, manufactured everything. Well, there's over 800 Real estate agents in that market. So that tells me there's a demand right now for building. So we just bought them last night, and the builders gonna list them with his house model on them here in the next couple of days. And hopefully it's a 90 day flip, we make a quick 45,000. That's that case that we're doing this week.And they'll buy they'll find the end buyer That'll buy the lot, you get cashed out that the builder builds a house,and they're getting a bank loan called a construction loan to build their house.Makes a lot of sense. I like that a lot. Let's go through the second one you're going throughthe second one now I didn't start here. I like I got my confidence built up. The second one that I just mentioned, we're looking at 36 acres that a realtor brought me in Sebring, Florida right on a major major highway, US 27 North, it is already zoned and approved for RV lots. It also has nine vacant commercial lots that we could put site pads on. They just threw up a Wawa a half mile from the property line. So there's a lot of opportunity here. It's an old developer. And it's so funny how this is working out 82 year old developer, and he's got a lot of projects going on. And he's basically bringing in young people and money to help them complete everything. Well, long story short, the same realtor that brought me the deal. I call him on the way back from looking at this 36 acres. I was like I love this guy. I think we can figure something out. It's so funny. He actually just sold an RV park in the town. I grew up in Okeechobee and Joe is a realtor. He goes Brent, you know where I met him, right? I was like I had no clue. He was on that land in Colorado. I was like what land in Colorado, it was a piece of land that I wholesaled in Colorado five years prior, same owner. So it's just amazing how these things work out. So going back to that deal. We're syndicating the deal. We're syndicating the funds, we are going to purchase the land. And basically we're going to build these RV, this RV park is already bringing in income it's already got an RV service centers already got storage, it's already got 17 RV spots, bringing in income, we're just gonna expand the footprintbecause when you have the land you can act as the bank on other people's money guys, that's what he's getting at if he just locks in the land, and you're just brokering it. Like the agents and that's where I think that's a really interesting niche because like the agents, the vast I'd say 99.9 agents don't know anything about land, but about 30 or 20% of them will have people that would want to buy it. They don't have the education to take the land down themselves. But if I was an agent, I probably be the number one listing agent in the area because I would have every listing I go to every single builder with land OPERS opportunities and then once I have all the listings I'd also have all the buyers that'd be controlling my own inventory. Think about it folks. This is what you have to do in this type of market in a tight inventory market like this you cannot just wait for houses to come on the market. You got to go manufacture deals. This is how you do it.I love that man that's that's amazing. You got my wheels turning mikeso there's a lot of opportunity here what let's get let's flip the script. Let's do some pitfalls that could happen and buying land because not everything is all peaches and roses all the time. Oh yeah. So what's some shit we need to watch out for? What do we got to be on the lookout for that we might get our asses kicked to say the least.Let's talk about my sixth and seventh deal. or maybe my ninth or 10th It's a little fuzzy at this point, but I got a little cocky probably wanted to get probably wanting toget it out of your brain. That's why you get a couple kick back and forget about that bad memory. Right?Yeah, I started getting a little arrogant about it. And I'm still doing my army officer job, I think we're have we're, you know, I got my first kid. And we're about maybe my wife gets pregnant again, with our second baby, I really enjoyed, like the success we're having in this, I'm like, so happy, I'm not having to deal with houses that much anymore. And I just start buying land sight unseen. And I see it's assessed for, you know, 3600, I'm paying half of the assessed value. So I'm paying like $1,800 for it. And I see the county gives me a market value of like, 36,000. And I'm paying 1800. I'm like, no brainer, right? Well, there's things like treasures deeds, where people pay the back taxes for a certain amount of years, and they can take the land via foreclosure. Well, that's what happened with this with this owner, the seller, and they're like, Yeah, give me 1800 bucks, it's yours. So I would just like meet people with cashier's checks, just buying land, getting a quitclaim deed and not running title search and title insurance and getting a title insurance policy. And then I didn't go look at it. And turns out, it was like a huge crater in the ground and Woodland Park, Colorado. But I was like, it's a no brainer, like, right, cuz I'm getting it for 1800 bucks. Well, I start coming into play, I sold this thing for 36,000. I already had a buyer lined up. And we go to we go to closing, they were fine. They they're the ones that told me about the crater in the ground. They were fine with that. But when they figured out they can't get title insurance for the next nine years, because there's a cloud on the title like things start like, Okay, wow, I wish I would have known about this in the very beginning. And there's ways around it, we could have gotten through it with a, you know, you know, it's called Quiet title. But I didn't know that at the time, either. And the title company didn't tell me I could do that. So all these little things, it's like, okay, you got you start getting a little arrogant, and you start pondering and start learning your way. And it's actually they're all blessings, and I ended up selling that land for about $3,000. And I held the financing to get my money back out of it. But it could have been so much better. And you know, those little pitfalls by not running title searches. By not getting a title insurance policy by not sending somebody to go look at it, I could have hired someone on a on a Buy Sell group for 25 bucks to go take pictures, or better yet, that land specialist Realtor you just talked about my xao That's what we call.So do your diligence, no matter what pull title, get insurance full, full shebang. And that should be I mean, mostly real estate agents, you know, you guys have that in your ingrained in your brain, you should at least, but I could see, I could see that what anything else that you would advise that another pitfall was, you know, anotherthing is like, buying land, you know, know what's buildable, like know how many acres you need to be able to put a septic system like Colorado, you need one acre. Colorado Springs, you need 5000 square feet, to be able to build on there that's like the minimum footprint. And you have to be you have to be in front of the sewer lines and the water lines or you're gonna spend a boatload of money bring in. Like for things like that. Pueblo, Colorado, you need to know that it's like $35,000 for a water tap right now, just knowing little things like that, and not being like, okay, it's worth, it's worth 100 I'm only paying 20 It's a no brainer, right? Just knowing like, okay, who's my buyer? What's the buyer gonna want to do with this? Are they gonna want to build on it? Or is this like going to be an off grid cabin, like, I love recreational land and stuff that's in the middle of nowhere that no ever build on, but you got to buy it at the right price. And so I would say that's probably another pitfall just knowing what's buildable, and then higher is.And let's do that really quick. And we'll do one more and we'll get this rap. Recreational land land that's like that first deal. You mentioned like a land land that's in the middle nowhere that is not going to be anything built. There's not gonna be commercial built. There's not going to be a house built there any time. Who's the we're gonna unload something like thattoo. Well, that was that second parcel that five acres that was surrounded by by the state lands. That was actually right next to Fort Carson, Colorado, the army base, and just south of NORAD actually where they track Santa Claus. The guy that bought that just wanted a piece of land that he can go and sit in like a tree stand and watch the turkeys go by like the guy was like a nature lover. He and he knew the only way who's ever going to get legal access in and out of that that area ingress egress was by hiring an access attorney. And you can find those by you know, talking to the title company, he knew is gonna have to spend a fortune doing that. But that guy just wanted to be out and out in the wilderness. Yeah. Other people like You know stuff we bought in the middle of nowhere in Colorado, they just want a place they can go ride their quads or their dirt bikes or camp, or you know, you name it bring your RV type thing. And thestuff that's way out there you got a lot bigger buyers because you're dealing with like a $5,000 piece right? $10,000 $15,000 $12,000 not buying 100,000 or parcel land if it's a male nowhere it's it's low price. So you could the risk isn't as high for you to take it down. You could afford to wait six months to sell that land. If it's 1000 bucks, right?And you can get a longer contract like Hey, Mister, mister seller, Mrs. Seller, I get it. You own this land for 10 years, you want to get rid of it. I buy and sell land for a living my full time jobs to military. This is a way for me to make extra money. Is it okay? Do you have a heart? Do you mind if I have if I line a buyer up before I actually buy it from you? So I'm gonna need a 90 day contract to do that. Is that okay? I'm actually gonna market this thing all over like Craigslist and Facebook and Zillow. Is that okay? If I find a buyer before I actually buy from you, and then they come on my side. They're like, yeah, absolutely. We hope you can make some money off of this. And now I had 90 days to have a buyer lined up with $5,000 down and $200 a month for the next seven years.Yep, makes sense. I love it dude. I think it's very creative. It's great niche. What do you think your competition is in like a market like how many other people do you have? Let's just take like Fort Collins seems like you know that area very well. In Fort Collins, how many other guys or gals are there out there like you going after these lands? Like what would you guess? And then what is it like in Florida?You know what I say there's virtually no competition in this there are a bunch of there are several guys like me, I am training them. And I say there's virtually no competition because most people drive by land every day. And they don't see a storage unit on it. Or or multifamily or a mobile home park or house they can buy and flip. So they're driving right by it and not even thinking anymore about it. So the big institutional guys like with a lot of the pockets are not messing with it. But the guys that like I'm creating by teaching them with the land sharks, how to build businesses that serve us, our families and others. There's not a lot like one of my land shark students right now just got 28 Lots under contract in Colorado, that they're they're building right down the street from we're going to join venture, we're going to do the deal together. And we're both going to make a ton of money. And I wouldn't have ever found that land if it wasn't for that that amazing student going out and taking action and nailing and talking to seller. So you could squat up you can joint venture like you don't have to do all this on your own.Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Love it. Brent, why don't you go ahead and tell everybody if you guys like what we talked about today, check out what Brent does. He does. You guys have like a coaching program and training thing that you bring people I want you to go ahead and tell them where they can get more info.Absolutely. I'm a wholesaling Inc coach on their official land coach, if you're if you're looking at like trying to figure out more about this, you can go to YouTube and you know, search Brent Bowers, find me on YouTube. Definitely subscribe, trying to build that thing up started about nine months ago. And if you want to schedule a call, and see if this is a good fit for you head on over to the land sharks.comOh, appreciate it. Brent, awesome show and thank you guys for listening to another episode of the real estate marketing dude, podcast. Folks, if you're looking to build your personal brand with video, we will script that and distribute your shit for you. It's not very hard. We make video marketing very simple and turn you into a local celebrity in your market. And if you're sick of training and you're sick of going on Zoom training, why don't you check out the event we're having in April right here in San Diego. It's called the best real estate conference.com It's the best real estate conference calm. If you are interested in attending that make sure you use the promo code dude d U d, dude and you will save some money. I saved you some money on that ticket. Make sure you go zoom training is getting old. If you want to go back to live in training network with people like you just spoke with and heard from today. Do it live events. I can't tell you you always walk away with something. This is the one to attend. Thanks for listening to their episode, follow us on all of our social channels and keep leaving us reviews. We appreciate you guys and we appreciate you listening and we'll see you next week. Adios Thank you for watching another episode of the real estate marketing dude podcast. If you need help with video or finding out what your brand is, visit our website at WWW dot real estate marketing do.com We make branding and video content creation simple and do everything for you. So if you have any additional questions, visit the site, download the training, and then schedule a time to speak with the dude and get you rolling in your local marketplace. Thanks for watching another episode of the podcast. We'll see you next time.

One day in 2015 I Googled the words "Emotional Abuse" and I couldn't believe my eyes! My life was there in black and white.  Everything I read lead me back to one word: narcissism. But it wasn't the overt narcissist that I was dealing with. It took me a while longer to learn there is more than one type. We've all heard the word "narcissism" overused, but have you heard of the covert narcissist? These individuals are extra tricky to discover, and usually we only discover them when we are in a very close relationship with one. Even after using the label to help me protect myself from these types of people in my life, I still question myself at times because they can present as such do-gooders in certain areas of their lives. Listen to hear the one golden nugget from my therapist about the true effect of being in a relationship with a covert narcissist. If you think you might be in a relationship with a narcissist, start learning and seek help. Here are some resources that helped me: https://www.choosingtherapy.com/covert-narcissist-signs/https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/emotional-abuseBook: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37660370-the-covert-passive-aggressive-narcissistBook: 30 Covert Emotional Manipulation Tactics by AB AdminBook: Dodging Energy Vampires By: Christiane Northrup, M. D. DM me on Instagram, I'd love to hear from you: @iheartserin

⬇️. ⬇️. ⬇️. Easier Way To Scale Practice Revenues (Ep.142) Hello and welcome to this episode of Beauty and the Biz where we discuss how to get surgeons more patients and more profits through an easier way to scale practice revenues. This episode is entitled Easier Way To Scale Practice Revenues And it's especially for you if you're struggling to grow your practice without dramatically increasing your overhead. So, I'll talk about: What is takes to scale your practice The challenges coming at you and how to pivot How to thrive and survive no matter what is going on in the world. Because the objective is to set up your cosmetic surgical practice as a business so it's more profitable, more enjoyable to go to every day, and it frees up your valuable time, so you have more of it to spend doing what you like to do with the people you most enjoy being with. Because the ultimate goal to scale their practice includes a system that attracts a steady stream of cash-paying patients WITHOUT spending a fortune on advertising, chasing down leads, hiring more staff, discounting services or performing on social media. To achieve scalable impact, here's what you need: Leverage – use your assets you already have to generate more revenues with less effort and overhead Bankable Profits – not just revenues, but profits you actually take out of the practice and Transferrable Value – means you have separated you from the practice so you have the freedom to sell to someone else when it's time to exit But there are challenges ahead…. Privacy issues are killing your plans for attracting new patients to your practice. So much is happening behind the scenes with apple, google and FB trying to dominate consumer data capture, so they are no longer sharing data with advertisers like before. This makes it very difficult for you to attract new PREFERRED patients when you can no longer target specifically to certain audiences.  And that means Ad results will become incomplete and inaccurate because you now have only 10% of the data that used to be 100% available and will face more difficulties finding an easier way to scale practice revenues. So that forces you to increase your advertising budget substantially, as in 30-80% and HOPE the broader, less targeted audience is interested in cosmetic rejuvenation. It's very similar to old-school mass advertising like TV. You spend a fortune to talk to everyone, rather than a targeted audience most likely to want your services. So not only do your ad costs increase dramatically, so do poor quality leads. Since your ads are not as targeted to your preferred patients, you get a mixed bag of the public contacting you. Now your staff wastes a lot of time triaging these leads to determine who is really serious and who is flaky. So, you need well-trained staff and processes to qualify leads. BTW, if you aren't already, I recommend you charge a consult fee so at least, your time is better protected from wasted consults who have no intention of moving forward. Regardless of their motives, these few Internet companies affect you big time if you are using paid advertising to attract new cosmetic patients. And there is cause and effect to everything. This major increase in advertising costs has now made SEO popular again; however, the supply is much greater than the demand so it's getting near impossible to rank on the 1st page. On top of that, Google is turning into an answer engine in which they are answering consumer­ questions without them having to go to a website. So, you need really good fresh content that entices consumers to click and stay on your website. This is not an easier way to scale practice revenues since it takes time, money and energy to create that incredible content. Another huge challenge you want to plan for is your social media strategy. You most likely are paying someone to do this for you OR you're spending a lot of your own time posting to add more followers. But please keep in mind, you are only renting those followers. IG and FB own them so they are your landlord. They can raise the rent and/or kick you out at any time, so you lose your data you've spent years collecting. I'm sure you're aware that social media and plastic surgery don't get along. You are showing graphic material that can be offensive or hurt the self-esteem of the public so these platforms can close down your account without notice. They also decide who sees your organic content. FB & IG continually strangle your list to force you to “pay to play” by buying advertising. The latest stats show only 5.2% of your followers actually see your organic content so you have this false sense of security thinking you're marketing your practice when, in fact, it's drying up right before your eyes. To counter this dilemma, I recommend you own the data! You can no longer trust that audiences you have built on social media platforms will be available to you. The 1st party data is the future and the money is in your patient list data. Your followers become your best targeted list because they already raised their hand indicating they are interested in cosmetic rejuvenation. Use landing pages to capture your followers' name, email and cell so you can stay in touch no matter what happens. I'm imploring you to use the data and resources you already have built up over the years being in practice since it's no longer easy to come by. Another big challenge is Technical Advancements are coming at patients fast and furiously. Just google non-surgical and look what pops up what that means to you is plenty of patients still need your surgical expertise; however, way more will opt for non-surgical procedures first to delay surgery. So, meet them where they are now so you don't lose them to non-surgeons and med-spas. The point is to develop that relationship early so they come for non-surgical AND stay for surgical procedures, thus, an easier way to scale practice revenues. So, Give these challenges, how CAN you scale your practice? Attract more patients from proven sources Return more often & spend more Encourage referrals, reviews and sharing on social so you DON'T spend on advertising for new patients. This will take a mindset shift…. The short-term, one-and-done mentality no longer works. Instead, look at each patient as an unpaid practice revenue-generator who brings you new patients for free. Once you embrace this “patients for life” mindset, you will treat your patients differently and they will react in kind by building your practice for you organically. So, here's what I'm proposing… Enjoy the surgical side of your practice while also building up your non-surgical as a healthy stand-alone profit center and here's why…. Patients enter different doors to cosmetic rejuvenation, so you want to meet them where they are. Some will go straight to surgical and then stay for more, while others dabble in non-surgical, some for years, before they are ready for your surgical option and give you a path to an easier way to scale practice revenues. And the beauty of our industry is that Cosmetic Consumers Have ENDLESS NEEDS The non-surgical industry has grown to over $3BB dollars and continues to grow thanks to social trends, social media and advanced technologies that continue to fuel the demand. And let's face it, we females are hard on ourselves. We stare in the mirror and critique ourselves and then we finally have enough and do something about it and then what do we do? We find the next thing that bothers us about us and focus on that. It never ends and that's what keeps all of us in business! I also looked up the most recent Aesthetic society stats and non-surgical is now 1/3 of all aesthetic procedures performed and growing. And, here's another interesting stat… Loyal non-surgical patients spend 67% more than new patients and that makes sense because If they know, like and trust you, they are open to your recommendations and will gladly buy your packages when offered. Here's the best part…. a 5% increase in non-surgical patient retention increases your profits by 25% – 95%. Because recurrent non-surgical patients tend to buy more, return more often and refer their friends, which is an easier way to scale practice revenues. This increases their lifetime value and decreases your advertising budget and that makes for a great P&L statement. So, it's the Retention of your patients that scales your practice using resources you already have and paid dearly for. You likely have a database of hundreds or thousands of patients. Can you imagine what would happen to your bottom line if a majority of them returned for more and referred their friends? I know for a fact many of them would gladly return and refer if given the opportunity. Heck, even Google agrees: One day, I was so frustrated with all the changes going on in digital advertising and tripling your costs to get mediocre results, I "Googled" how can I get more cosmetic patients and Google said: Get more reviews Enhance your online presence Use social media Respond to reviews Train your staff Build strong relations with existing patients and referrals will follow   BTW, here's the greatest missed opportunity: Word-of-mouth referrals. Also, an easier way to scale practice revenues. Duct Tape Marketing says 83% of business owners claim their main source of new business is referrals. But here's the crazy part... 93% of consumers say they would refer their friends to you BUT only 29% actually do. So, the smart thing to do is to work on that difference of 64% – that's where the money is (not your TikTok videos) Word of mouth referrals are not a happy accident You need to champion patients by asking them – making it easy and reminding them To pull this altogether, here is the structure to follow for an easier way to scale practice revenues in this order. Increase referrals and reviews Retain more patients Add more value to differentiate you from your competitors Ongoing staff training Increase your conversion rate Increase your patients' transaction value Increase frequency of patient visits THEN Increase leads and more web traffic   But most practices have this backwards. They focus only on the bottom rung to increase leads, skip the leverage parts so they and their staff work a lot harder than necessary for less results. The goal is to create a system to scale your practice by 10X'ing the value of your non-surgical patients so if they are typically worth $1K to you, they are soon worth $10K to you because you have a proven system to compel them to return more often, refer more of their friends, give you reviews, and share you on social media with their followers. So, now you have peace of mind knowing you have a steady stream of patients coming in month after month to give you predictable revenues. You'll agree that this is an easier way to scale practice revenues. This scalable system needs to be a creative solution that eliminates discounting and decreases advertising. This will ensure you operate more profitably so you keep more of the revenues you bring in. And this system needs to be on autopilot so you and your staff can focus on the patient experience. It also needs to be unique to anything else out there by changing the conversation. Here's what I mean… Most practices don't realize how insanely difficult it is to get a complete stranger to buy something from them, so they fall back on price, as in discounting their services. That message attracts price-shoppers but then you're frustrated that you're being nickel-and-dimed to death. All of this discounting hurts your profits and your image and it's a race to the bottom because you can't compete if you're barely covering your overhead. It's also not a fun way to run your practice.         So, the solution is to change the conversation from discounting to rewarding your patients with free cosmetic services since the most effective word in advertising has been and will always be FREE, so we use it strategically to create an easier way to scale practice revenues. This makes it more fun for your patients to work towards winning something and you keep way more of your profits and revenues. That's how you scale a cosmetic practice you enjoy going to and are proud of. If that sounds interesting to you, please check out www.KISSLoyalty.com for the details.   P.S. Can you please leave a quick review at Apple Podcasts? Just click the link HERE If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.

Welcome back to the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast, for episode #198 with mood and stress expert, Erika Ferszt, who was a senior creative executive for over 20 years and for 10 of those years, led all of the advertising, media and digital efforts for Ray Ban. She must have made such an impact with her work that the Ray-Ban Erika's were named after her! Watch our interview on YouTube here https://youtu.be/y-vFVaiBPrw On this episode you will learn: ✔︎ The signs and symptoms of work burnout that led Erika to leave a job she loved and create an app to help reduce workplace stress. ✔︎ How her health scare led her to pursue 2 years of Postgraduate studies in neuroscience. ✔︎ How someone without a science background can understand and teach neuroscience in a way that it's simple and easy to use. ✔︎ What she offers at Moodally.com for corporate executives. ✔︎ How a stress management program like her app can help improve self-efficacy, so we can better manage our daily stress. In 2015 she suffered a burnout episode and was hospitalized for 10 days with stress-related vision loss, and through this experience, went back to school to study the relationship between stress, the brain and the mind and founded her company Moodally.com as a result.   If you've been following our podcast, you will see clearly why I have asked Erika to join us today, for season 7 of this podcast where we are focused on brain health and well-being. Welcome back.  I'm Andrea Samadi, author, and educator from Toronto, Canada, now in Arizona, and like many of you listening, have been fascinated with learning and understanding the science behind high performance strategies that we can use to improve our productivity in our schools, our sports, and workplace environments. My vision is to bring the experts to you, share their books, resources, and ideas to help you to implement their proven strategies, whether you are a teacher working in the classroom or in the corporate environment.   Today's guest, Erika Ferszt, loved her job with Ray Ban. She will tell her story, explaining it was not like she was working for a terrible boss in a toxic work environment, but quite the opposite as she loved her work, but when her body reacted to the constant stress it was under, she was forced to make some changes, that led her to a whole new path in life.   Let's meet Erika and hear how her burnout led her to create Moodally.com and a whole new life.   Welcome, Erika, thank you for meeting me on a Friday night (I think??). Are you in Italy now? (I know you said Europe).   There was so much to your story, when I saw it that resonated with me when I saw the path that you took after your health scare, but I have to start with a question that's not so obvious (like tell me where this all started).   Intro Question: I've got to say that most people I know here in the US push themselves hard work wise. You know, the American Dream can be had, but there's a price to pay, and I'm always watching those close to me, looking for a sign that the push is too much, and now we can measure if our body is recovered or not with these wearable devices that can tell us if we need to rest and slow down. Were there ANY signs or symptoms that you can think of, looking back, with that episode, that you were close to burn-out?   Q1: So, you land in hospital, with quite a scary situation. I've lost my eyesight before, but it was temporary, and in one eye only, and I found out later, after I freaked out because I couldn't drive the kids to school, that it's common (it was an ocular migraine and I Googled it by looking out of one eye while calling my eye doctor) but your vision loss lasted much longer and was serious (and when I Googled loss of myelin sheath around the optic nerve I almost wish I hadn't. Can you share what the stress did to your optic nerve to cause the vision loss, did you Google it and notice what I could have been, and with everything that you learned is that what led you to pursue 2-years of Post Graduate studies in the Neuroscience after this experience?   Q2: I have just completed a one year Mindfulness Based Neurocoaching Certification program (that took me 2 years because I found it to be very difficult/intensive) it was with a neuroscience researcher, who I have been working with over the years to understand the science behind what's going on in the brain, and it's one of the reasons I host this podcast, to make neuroscience is simple and easy to use for all of us, whether we have a degree in neuroscience or not. How do you think we can bridge this content and make it easier for people to understand? I'm always looking for ways to simplify ideas. Do you have any thoughts so that a teacher, or someone without a science background could understand and teach others these complex ideas with confidence?   Q3: Let's go to how you founded Moodally.com (your Mood ali) and go straight to WHY you created this company, with a focus on our moods? I'm one of those people that is happy fairly consistently, because I know how important my mood is for my results and how it's our competitive advantage, but I have to work at it (daily). If I miss a day of my routine, it's pretty obvious. What does Moodally offer and how do most people implement it into their daily routine?   3B: How is mood different from our attitude or mindset?     Q4: I heard you say that “what shapes our mood is our self-efficacy or our belief in our abilities to face what life throws at us.” On any given day, we can have work pressures, health pressure, kids (health and school pressure), and the Pandemic magnified this, making many people I know consider a career-change, since there was so much change in the workforce. Can mental strength built by your app (or other ways) help with this self-efficacy, so we can better face all of the challenges that are thrown our way daily?     Q5: I was talking with a good friend of mine from high school, and he was sharing how his life has been since the Pandemic, and he said “sometimes it would feel good, just to get a win, eh?” (he's Canadian) and yesterday I had an usually stressful day, where it was not obvious I had done any mental training, and I wondered at that moment, what do constant dead ends do to our self-efficacy? You know, those days where nothing works out right (like for me yesterday) Does it de-motivate us, lowering our ambitions and prevent us from pushing ourselves forward? What's the healthy balance of the push that keeps us reaching higher, without letting those down days push us towards burn-out or apathy?   Q6: What is your vision for Moodally.com and who do you typically work with?   Q7: Is there anything that's important that we haven't covered today?   Thank you very much Erika, for sharing your expertise with us, and giving us some tools that we can access to help push us forward in a healthy way.   If anyone wants to learn more about you, is the best place Moodally.com?   FOLLOW ERIKA: Moodally Matters Podcast https://anchor.fm/moodally-matters/episodes/How-Burning-Out-From-an-Award-Winning-Job-Improved-My-Life-with-Erika-Ferszt-e1dg16a   LinkedIn Page https://www.linkedin.com/company/moodally/   Free tools on her website https://www.moodally.com/#FREEBIES  

Building a successful nonprofit is hard especially if you don't have a roadmap. I know first hand from my days on a new nonprofit's Board. I had nonprofit experience in larger organizations so I knew what one looked like from the inside but I saw so many things that needed to be done. I Googled “start a nonprofit” and got plenty of articles on the paperwork but after the 501(c)3, there wasn't much help. So, I began researching the reasons nonprofits fail in the first year. I figured that was a problem to tackle so we weren't just another statistic. And what came out of my research and talking to other Founders was my book, I Have My 501(c)3! Now What?!? As I talked more to Founders and mentored them, I found it wasn't enough. That's why I created the Build a Successful Nonprofit framework to help Founders put together the pieces that create a successful nonprofit- one that covers costs and builds infrastructure. This Framework governs everything I do in my business. There are three pillars to the framework. Topics discussed in this episode:  - Pillar 1: Infrastructure Pillar [00:01:25]  - Board [00:03:00]  - Strategic Plan [00:03:21]  - Tactical Plan and Budget [00:04:30] - Program Development [00:05:21] - Policies and Procedures [00:06:30] - Fundraising Foundations [00:07:08] - Pillar 2: Time Management Pillar [00:12:09]  - Pillar 3:Fundraising Basics Pillar [00:13:37] - Know Your Donors [00:14:30] - Know Your Strategy [00:15:19] - Know Your Plan [00:15:45]  - How the Framework Solves the Problems of Lack of Infrastructure and Lack of Funding [00:16:00]   Resources mentioned in this episode:  - Grant Ready Program Development Template [00:06:03] - Payment Processor- Givebox [00:08:03] - Email Service Provider- MailChimp (free up to 2,000 email addresses) [00:09:30] - Email Service Provider- MailerLite (free up to 1,000 email addresses) [00:09:30] - Email Service Provider- Constant Contact (free trial) [00:09:30] - Free Accounting Software- Wave App [00:10:05]  - Donor Database- Little Green Light (Deep Discount through TechSoup) [00:12:00] - A Founder's Guide to Building a Nonprofit Without Being the Sole Funder [00:17:38] Episode transcript: S2Ep1 Transcript You Might Like:  - Join The Nonprofit Founder's Club™  - Download the free A Founder's Guide to Building a Nonprofit Without Being the Sole Funder - Join the email list that gives you more tips and information monthly -  Check out the Nonprofit Founder's University where you can get courses to help you build your nonprofit.

Jared and Jason from the band Saving Abel joins Dadcast! Saving Abel is an American rock band from Corinth, Mississippi, founded in 2004 by Jared Weeks and Jason Null. The band is named after the biblical story of Cain and Abel, in which a man named Cain kills his brother Abel. Band member Jason Null thought up the band title saying "I Googled the story of Cain and Abel and found a line about 'there was no saving Abel,' which just jumped out at me." Lead singer Jared Weeks left the band at the end of 2013 to pursue a solo career, but returned in 2021, replacing Scott Austin. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/dadcastco/support

Last night, I Googled an old friend and learned he died in 2020. Has this ever happened to you ?

"I've always wanted to be a comedian. When I graduated from high school I Googled, 'best degrees to get a job with' because there was no way in hell I could tell my parents, 'hey, I'm going to be a comedian'. One day after a show, all it took was one guy to [tell me] I'm really funny and I'm like ok, I'm going to move to Hollywood baby!" - Ahmed on his start in standup. Ahmed Al-Kadri is a Yemeni-American stand-up comedian and content creator most known for witty TikTok's, comedic sketches, and his genuine connection to people. Whether he's making fun of himself, his religion, or his friends (like https://open.spotify.com/episode/2jkzhWpIOhDEPeHj3mXDU0?si=22860c90c03d4efd (Perry Grone) who we had on a few weeks back), you can find humor in almost everything he puts out online. In this episode, we cover: Why Ahmed pursued a regular job first instead of jumping into stand up full time Haters, commenters, and how to understand people who don't get your content 3 things to ask yourself to create your first joke for standup comedy Selling out his first show and perfecting an hour of comedy The difference between finding new music vs. new comedians Ahmed's writing process, and coming up with new ideas Follow Ahmed on https://www.instagram.com/ahmedlovesbread/ (Instagram) Between recording and releasing this, Ahmed went viral again! https://www.tiktok.com/@ahmedlovesbread/video/7040166775375400238?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 (Watch it on TikTok Here) Listen to our podcast with Perry Grone on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/2jkzhWpIOhDEPeHj3mXDU0?si=22860c90c03d4efd (Here) and Apple https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bopcast/id1369797470?i=1000542696483 (Here) Please Join Our Email List for Special Offers, Q+A's, Live Podcasts, and More - To Join, https://www.sullybop.com/ (Scroll to the Bottom of This Page) Previous Guests Include https://open.spotify.com/episode/2h9bHhMmQmL8WSSYDcj2mf?si=2a61889cb6244fe4 (Samad Savage), https://open.spotify.com/episode/2hudFx2Bh0no9aOpNVAfhL?si=b7f7c14b327f434b (Travis Chappell), https://open.spotify.com/episode/7r7aODbOtia2BjhG5GRcHh?si=ae47b9a90c21405d (Austin Belcak), https://open.spotify.com/episode/2ceJNa3MAyZlk8Lw3rsW1Q?si=e901236209e948f5 (Young Benny), https://open.spotify.com/episode/0qZVBnOGSUcAmt4EFphNcR?si=38763a2013084f6a (Adam Miller), https://open.spotify.com/episode/6lPiZinAXh3yDdSnLShDiA?si=74dc6a03560b4de9 (The Real Johnny Bravo), and more. Links Below: _ Watch the Video Version on https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5yW2ZNS4Iq7ff_EeKe3HkQ (YouTube) @sullybop on Instagram Search 'BOPCAST' on any platform! (Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube) Visit https://www.sullybop.com/ (SullyBop.com) for more information, show notes and to join our monthly newsletter. Big shouts to the folks who make this possible: Video - https://www.instagram.com/ferrarib98/ (@ferrarib98) Logo - https://www.instagram.com/ryannkelly20/ (@ryannkelly20) Producer - https://www.instagram.com/minishep13/ (@minishep13) Sponsor - https://www.instagram.com/soda_rewriters/ (@soda_rewriters) Theme Song - https://www.instagram.com/jello.wav/ (@jello.wav)

A New Hampshire native, Ulmer discovered skiing as a young girl, skipping school to hit the slopes at lunch time. Friends told her about skiing in Utah. Her mom found a $40 one-way airline ticket. And she headed west, making Salt Lake City her home. She spent every waking moment skiing the bumps at Snowbird.Her breakthrough came after an all-day drive out I-80 to California, sleeping overnight freezing in her car in a ski area parking lot, then hucking herself off a huge cliff doing a trick she had never attempted. She didn't know it at the time, but she had found fear, embraced it and danced with fear to become one of the world's most well known big mountain skiers and film stars, with her image beaming from the covers of ski magazines.Today, Ulmer is a thought leader, high performance facilitator, and fear/anxiety expert who draws from her tenure as the best woman extreme skier in the world, studying Zen and from facilitating thousands of clients.What is it about fear that oftentimes defines what we do, or don't do? What does it take to become fearless (Ulmer says it isn't possible, so don't try). And how can we improve our lives, and our skiing, if we simply embrace fear?Ulmer still lives in the Salt Lake City foothills and channels her energy into helping others. Her book, The Art of Fear, is a fascinating look into how you, as a business leader, skier or everyday human, can embrace fear. Her on-snow camps (which, by the way, sell out) counsel skiers and riders on how they, too, can embrace fear to improve their skiing.She's worked with the likes of free solo climber Alex Hannawald to big wave surfer Laird Hamilton. But she also loves working with everyday skiers and riders - just like you and I!Kristen Ulmer is one of the truly fascinating figures in the landscape of Utah skiing. This episode of Last Chair is a fascinating insight into a Hall of Fame skier whose understanding of embracing fear has shaped her life and the lives of those around her.How did you get into skiing?I grew up in New Hampshire in a small town - Pat's Peak ski area, 700 vertical feet. I grew up in a house that was built in 1786 and it hadn't been remodeled. Now think about that for a sec. I just went skiing with my girlfriends because that's what they did. And then right around age 15, 16, I became really into skiing and I would skip out of school to go skiing during lunch breaks. And then I finally got caught my senior year. I almost didn't get to graduate because I had so many detentions from skipping school to go skiing. But I skied in jeans until I was 20 years old.What motivated you to get into skiing as a career?I had absolutely no goals whatsoever, and this is probably one of the strangest things about my ski career. I also was like the last person to be chosen for elementary and high school, not just soccer, but sports teams - like I was not athletic at all, and I just was obsessed with skiing when I moved to Snowbird in Utah. I started hanging out with a bunch of people that were competing in moguls, and I just wanted to hang out with them and go on road trips. So that's why I started competing.What does it mean to be fearless?People misunderstand people they admire who do incredibly scary things, whether it be skiing or people who run the world or, you know, businessmen and women - people that take incredible risks in any way, shape or form. We have this perception and this ideology that these people are fearless and that is not the case. Nobody's fearless. When I first became a fear expert, I Googled it and I realized that there's no other people out there that are willing to call themselves fear experts because we assume that people that are fear experts, A, are fearless and B, can teach other people how to be fearless. And I am neither of those. Nobody's fearless. It's not only impossible, but it's undesirable.Did you feel fear when you hucked that first cliff in front of the cameras?Well, you'd think that fear would be going through somebody's mind. It never even occurred to me to be afraid that day. And you know, it's a pretty big cliff - your first cliff. And to do a back scratcher, which you've never done, mind you, in front of a whole bunch of very famous skiers that were in all the magazines and, you know, film stars like, you'd think that I would have been a little bit afraid, but I wasn't.Learn more about how you can embrace fear. Check out more with Kristen Ulmer on Last Chair: The Ski Utah Podcast presented by High West Distillery on your favorite podcast platform. Subscribe to get first access to every episode.

A New Hampshire native, Ulmer discovered skiing as a young girl, skipping school to hit the slopes at lunch time. Friends told her about skiing in Utah. Her mom found a $40 one-way airline ticket. And she headed west, making Salt Lake City her home. She spent every waking moment skiing the bumps at Snowbird.Her breakthrough came after an all-day drive out I-80 to California, sleeping overnight freezing in her car in a ski area parking lot, then hucking herself off a huge cliff doing a trick she had never attempted. She didn't know it at the time, but she had found fear, embraced it and danced with fear to become one of the world's most well known big mountain skiers and film stars, with her image beaming from the covers of ski magazines.Today, Ulmer is a thought leader, high performance facilitator, and fear/anxiety expert who draws from her tenure as the best woman extreme skier in the world, studying Zen and from facilitating thousands of clients.What is it about fear that oftentimes defines what we do, or don't do? What does it take to become fearless (Ulmer says it isn't possible, so don't try). And how can we improve our lives, and our skiing, if we simply embrace fear?Ulmer still lives in the Salt Lake City foothills and channels her energy into helping others. Her book, The Art of Fear, is a fascinating look into how you, as a business leader, skier or everyday human, can embrace fear. Her on-snow camps (which, by the way, sell out) counsel skiers and riders on how they, too, can embrace fear to improve their skiing.She's worked with the likes of free solo climber Alex Hannawald to big wave surfer Laird Hamilton. But she also loves working with everyday skiers and riders - just like you and I!Kristen Ulmer is one of the truly fascinating figures in the landscape of Utah skiing. This episode of Last Chair is a fascinating insight into a Hall of Fame skier whose understanding of embracing fear has shaped her life and the lives of those around her.How did you get into skiing?I grew up in New Hampshire in a small town - Pat's Peak ski area, 700 vertical feet. I grew up in a house that was built in 1786 and it hadn't been remodeled. Now think about that for a sec. I just went skiing with my girlfriends because that's what they did. And then right around age 15, 16, I became really into skiing and I would skip out of school to go skiing during lunch breaks. And then I finally got caught my senior year. I almost didn't get to graduate because I had so many detentions from skipping school to go skiing. But I skied in jeans until I was 20 years old.What motivated you to get into skiing as a career?I had absolutely no goals whatsoever, and this is probably one of the strangest things about my ski career. I also was like the last person to be chosen for elementary and high school, not just soccer, but sports teams - like I was not athletic at all, and I just was obsessed with skiing when I moved to Snowbird in Utah. I started hanging out with a bunch of people that were competing in moguls, and I just wanted to hang out with them and go on road trips. So that's why I started competing.What does it mean to be fearless?People misunderstand people they admire who do incredibly scary things, whether it be skiing or people who run the world or, you know, businessmen and women - people that take incredible risks in any way, shape or form. We have this perception and this ideology that these people are fearless and that is not the case. Nobody's fearless. When I first became a fear expert, I Googled it and I realized that there's no other people out there that are willing to call themselves fear experts because we assume that people that are fear experts, A, are fearless and B, can teach other people how to be fearless. And I am neither of those. Nobody's fearless. It's not only impossible, but it's undesirable.Did you feel fear when you hucked that first cliff in front of the cameras?Well, you'd think that fear would be going through somebody's mind. It never even occurred to me to be afraid that day. And you know, it's a pretty big cliff - your first cliff. And to do a back scratcher, which you've never done, mind you, in front of a whole bunch of very famous skiers that were in all the magazines and, you know, film stars like, you'd think that I would have been a little bit afraid, but I wasn't.Learn more about how you can embrace fear. Check out more with Kristen Ulmer on Last Chair: The Ski Utah Podcast presented by High West Distillery on your favorite podcast platform. Subscribe to get first access to every episode.

A microphone is a good enough platform for getting back at people, but an entire recording studio is even better.  Popular music is littered with songs getting back at an ex lover, from Waylon Jennings to Taylor Swift, but a fair number of the tracks you know by heart are actually clap-backs to the people in the mixing booth or the record label offices. YBOF Book; Audiobook (basically everywhere but Audible); Merch! Hang out with your fellow Brainiacs  .Reach out and touch Moxie on Facebook, Twitter,  or Instagram. Support the show Music by Kevin MacLeod, Steve Oxen, David Fesliyan.   Links to all the research resources are on our website.   I love this podcast and am so happy Moxie is so prolific! A very compelling mix of the obscure to the commonplace, and a riveting listen no matter what.

Every doctor is concerned about your vital signs, but a good doctor cares about your overall health. Your website deserves the same care, and Hey Check It is here to help- Hey Check It is a website performance monitoring and optimization tool- Goes beyond just core web vitals to give you a full picture on how to optimize your website to give your users an optimal, happy experience- Includes AI-generated SEO data, accessibility scanning and site speed checks with suggestions on how to optimize, spelling and grammar checking, custom sitemaps, and a number of various tools to help youStart a free trial today at heycheckit.comAUTOMATED TRANSCRIPTColleen Schnettler  0:00  Good morning, Michelle. Hey, Colleen, it's early here in California. But I am here for you.Michele Hansen  0:42  It's late here in Denmark, it is dark. It is not even five.Unknown Speaker  0:47  My goodness.Colleen Schnettler  0:48  So I think this week, I would like to talk to something I talk about something a little more serious. And I want to talk about you. Because you have been going through some stuff.Michele Hansen  1:02  Yeah, I have. It kind of occurred to me this week that I I don't I don't know, I might be going through burnouts. Or at least I have, like, way too much stress. Like, like, I feel like I'm DDoSing myself.Colleen Schnettler  1:22  I love that line, by the way. So first of all, I guess your best friend and podcast host has been telling you this for like eight months.Michele Hansen  1:33  Like, we're like you're gonna burn out. I'm like, I'm fine. And then our friends of ours were like, you know, after like, I launched something like, you know, especially infoproduct people, they're like, I went through like a depression after that I really burned out like, and I was like, I hear you but like, I'm special. I'm not gonna that's not gonna happen to me. You know, all think we're special. We all think we're special. And we all are special. But there are also things that everyone goes through. Um, yeah, I have so much going on in my life right now. And, and I think this, I mean, I Okay, so you've known this for a long time. But like, I I think it really started to become apparent to me that like, given everything I'm doing I have really like down prioritized taking care of myself. That was something I got really thinking about at founder Summit. And it's not just like a work life balance problem or a, you know, need to like join a gym problem. Like, I think it's like, bigger than that. But I don't really know, like, how do you unburn out? How do you do though?Colleen Schnettler  2:43  Let's take a step back. When you say you haven't deprioritize taking care of yourself, what did you use to do that? You don't do like you have stopped doing over the past year. And like what led to that. I'm curious how you got to where you are.Michele Hansen  3:00  I mean, so I really don't first of all, like I really don't work out as much like and I used to be someone who was like super active, like, I used to run to work, bike to work, play tennis, do gymnastics, soccer on top of that, like super, super active and have really become less active. And I don't know if that's the pandemic or like moving countries and my habits like change, you know, you have to establish entirely new habits. As I was talking to people about it founder summit who are nomads, they were saying that they didn't realize until COVID and they were forced to stay in one place. how stressful it had been to like, move places every couple of months and have to like refigure it all over again. Like oh, like where's the grocery store that I like? And like, can I get the food I like and you know, where's the gym that I like? Where can I work? Like all those kinds of like basic everyday questions become sort of stressful. Like I definitely feel like that like I didn't go to the dentist for 18 months. Mostly because it's like so like hack I have a package I've been trying to mail for three months and I'm just so overwhelmed by the idea of like figuring out the Danish postal system that it's still sitting at my desk. So like basic everyday things become really overwhelming when you're abroad. Yeah, I think like one of my habits changed but then I think I just have so much going on also that like you know I think the great thing about working for yourself is like if you want to take an hour lunch break and read a book like you can do that but like I have been feeling like I don't even have time to eat I don't have time to make myself healthy food like the idea of just like even cooking a piece of salmon or whatever like seems overwhelming and so like I have really allowed my health to like totally slip because I just feel like I don't have time for it but I also don't have those like sort of habit triggers I guess that I used to have you know if I was in my environment I was in you know, do Two years ago, for sure. And I think with everything that I have going on, that's like become really acute.Colleen Schnettler  5:09  So and you would lump. I mean, that's your physical health. But also you said you don't read books for pleasure. I mean, I think that's what you just said. So that's not that's your whole, not just do it like I do. Okay. Yeah. I mean, have you also, like, what about your, your mental health are you also are you still not having time to do the things you used to love that brought you joy.Michele Hansen  5:33  So I differentiate that, and I think this is like I've been, you know, so I'm obviously not an expert in this, I'm just somebody who's going through differentiating between burnout and depression, where, like, I actually feel like my mental health is pretty good. Like I've done I've done a lot of work on my mental health the past couple of years. Um, and, you know, depression is like, when you try to, you know, you try to get the energy to do the things that you liked, and then you don't get any enjoyment out of it, it's like the dopamine just doesn't even fire. Or if it does, it only lasts for a second. So whereas you know, a non depressed person, maybe you can go for a walk, and, and then you or you see a friend, and it kind of brightens you for the rest of the day, and at least helps you get through it. You know, when I've gone through depression, it's like, that enjoyment you get from that, like, you get like 30 seconds of enjoyment out of it, and then it's just gone. And you even feel worse than you did before, because you were expecting to make you feel good. And then it didn't, and then it just like spirals. I'm not in that state right now. It's more just like this constant feeling of stress. And like, I don't have enough time for anything. And feeling exhausted by that constant stress. But it's also not anxiety, either. Because an idea I guess I'm not I don't really know how to explain this. But like it's, it's not like worrying. And it's not like a tension, or No, I don't, I don't know how to explain it. But yeah, it's kind of it's gotten me to Google X. It's like, I don't know what this feeling is. And then I kind of, you know, I mentioned it to some friends of ours. And they're like, that's, that's the burnout. We were telling you was going to happen. And I'm like, oh, and then I'm like, so like, what is like the plan to like, get out of this? Like, is there like, what does your schedule look like when you were getting out of burnout? They're like, yeah, that's kind of like, you're trying to, like, make a schedule of it. Like, right. And one of our friends was, like, I Googled, you know, how to be a type B personality when I was going through.Unknown Speaker  7:49  It's amazing.Michele Hansen  7:51  Um, yeah, but I think it's kind of it's kind of weird. I was like, I don't even talk about this on the podcast, because it's like, I don't have a solution here. You know, I almost feel like, you know, I should have some sort of solution to give people but I don't I'm just kind of stuck in the middle of it. And, and just sort of talking it out, because I also, I don't, I feel like if people heard met, people mentioned, like having burnout, but like, and I guess if people know of like a good podcast or blog posts on the experience of burnout and how someone got through it, I would really love to read that. Because I feel like we don't really talk about it enough. So I'm kind of, I guess, trying to talk about it as a way of giving visibility to this thing that it turns out, a lot of my entrepreneur friends have gone through.Colleen Schnettler  8:46  Yeah, well, I think it's, I mean, as much as you're comfortable, I think it's good that you're talking about it. I you know, the one of the things. One of my takeaways from founder summit was I actually talked to quite a few people who went through massive burnout. And it seems to be just something that happens to us in our field in modern day, a lot, probably because we can work anywhere at any time. So we could theoretically be working all the time. But also, I, again, I think it's I'm sure it's a very personal journey to get out of it. But I feel like you need to take like, a month off. Let's talk about that.Michele Hansen  9:26  Yeah, and I think that's really where I'm struggling because I feel like I can't and but I'm also sort of, you know, somebody who's drowning and like, people are saying, hey, stop flailing. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, that like, and that just makes me panic even more. But like, so where I, you know, the stuff I have going on, like, you know, so we have to co do and like, I want to stress that like, I still really enjoy working on geocode do and I think actually Mateus and I were talking about this last night, and he's like, you know, we've been running this for almost eight years. And he's like, I'm even still surprised that we still find it interesting, we still find it challenging, we still enjoy working on it we enjoy the customers we work with, we enjoy, you know, helping them and like, it's still a problem we're really, like, excited about solving. And, you know, it does not feel like a drag. And so like, so I have to do going on. Of course, there's this podcast and all of my book stuff and like, and that's a joy. But also, I've been putting pressure on myself to sell it when I don't really have to, like, you know, like that. Like, there's not like I purposely didn't pitch it to a publisher, I purposefully didn't want someone telling me, you need to sell this many books, and you need to go out on this book tour and like, do all these things like I wanted that, you know, that decision for myself of how much time I spent on it. But now I'm in this situation where I feel like I have to justify all the time I spent on it some spending all this time promoting it. SoColleen Schnettler  10:56  let's go back. So yeah, so my my business partners, you haven't even gotten through the whole list. But sure, yeah. Okay, so let's go back a little bit. So my business partner Sean has, in the past experienced incredible, massive burnout. And one of the things he said to you yesterday was, like, the number one symptom of burnout is thinking, you can't work less. Like, there's no way around it, I can't solve this problem, because I cannot work less. So I challenge that, first of all, okay, but I don't know if we're here to problem solve, or if we're just here to talk. SoMichele Hansen  11:32  we're kind of a mix of both. But I mean, so I think so here, let me get through the full list of things.Colleen Schnettler  11:36  Okay, keep going. So just to go do,Michele Hansen  11:38  there is what I term my extracurriculars, which is the book like this podcast being on other podcasts, like, you know, the fun business stuff. Um, and then there's also I'm in Danish class all day, Monday and Friday. Right. And then also, I have a family and, you know, another stressors on top of that is, you know, I'm in a foreign country, and, you know, again, talking to people founder Summit, you know, talking to other people who moved abroad, during the pandemic, there was a universal Zero out of 10, do not recommend on that. And then also, you know, we're in a pandemic, so like, there's all sorts of reasons to be burned out. But then the reason why I feel like I can't do less is because like, just I mean, quite frankly, like, for immigration reasons, like I have to be in Danish class, and I have to be working full time. And so I'm squeezing in basically, a full work week, you know, on the edges on Monday and Friday, and then working as much as I can, to say, Wednesday, Thursday, plus, you know, like, replying, the email, you know, when I wake up in the morning, and you know, at night, you know, normal entrepreneur, lack of boundaries with email stuff. And so like, that's why I feel like I can't work less because like, my life necessitate necessitates that I'm in language school twice a week, which feels like a part time job. And then, like, just for legal immigration reasons, like I have to be working full time at the same time. So I feel kind of backed into a corner almost. And then so then, like, the last thing to let go, because obviously, I can't drop family off of that. I guess one benefit of being somewhere where I don't really have a lot of friends in daily life is it like social is, you know, there's, there's zero there. So there's really nothing to drop. But I'm like this, doing this podcast and the book and everything. Like, that's the easiest stuff to fall back on. But that's the thing I like, really enjoying. And so I guess I could sensibly work less and not do this, but like, I quite enjoy this. And like, I enjoy talking to people on their podcasts. And I enjoy doing stuff about my book, and I enjoy talking to you and doing this podcast. And so like, so the only thing I'm left with is, you know, the taking away the thing I enjoy the most and I, you know, like, I wish I could only be in Danish class one hour a week, but that's just not an option. And I think that's the thing. That's the biggest drag on myself. But also there's just the general I mean, stress of the pandemic, right, like, you know, you've probably heard that Europe, several European countries are locking down again, like so it's like, are we facing another lockdown, where I have to balance between working and feeling like a bad parent, because I'm like, you know, balancing homeschooling and working and everything. And so that's like, even stressing me out even more because it's like, Oh, my God, I have to get even more out of each day when I already feel like I'm getting trying to get so much out of each day. And I think just all of that is just kind of making me feel just sort of stressed and exhausted. Just likeColleen Schnettler  14:57  that's a lot. I mean, especially the foreign country. To me, we move to California. And it's so annoying slash stressful. Find a new doctors and dentists. And we're in the same country, they still speak English,Michele Hansen  15:08  they tend you're in like constant sunlight. Oh, that makes aColleen Schnettler  15:12  huge difference. By the way, everyone should move to California, because I'm happy every day because the sun is shining every day. But no, that's a lot, Michelle. I mean, you end this has been so prolonged for you, right? Because it was the pandemic, and then you move to a foreign country. That was that was a lot to take on at once you left your friends you left, you know, the place where you were comfortable and you loved you left the language. You left the healthcare system, like everything that that was really American healthcare system youMichele Hansen  15:42  like it's, it's terrible, but at least at least they knew how it worked. Yeah, at least you know how to go to the doctor, I could go to the doctor and feel confident I could communicate with the brain. But I wasn't like going, like practicing, you know? How to say, you know, yes, sure. I floss my teeth. You know?Colleen Schnettler  16:03  The change over the past? Gosh, is it been two, three years now? How long has this pandemic been going on? The, the amount of stress you have taken on is tremendous. And I feel for you, because it's just it sounds really, really hard.Michele Hansen  16:29  And everybody who said they went through burnout, like they're like, the thing I did was, you know, I fired all my clients, and I didn't work for two months. Yeah, or I didn't work for a year, like I just lived on savings for a year. And I'm like, I don't feel I can do that. And like also, like people, like, you know, I traveled or whatever. And it's like, I have a family. So I can't just like do nothing all day. Like, even if I wanted to, like I have responsibilities like that, you know, do not change regardless of how I'm feeling. And then, like, legally, I have to be working. And so I feel I mean, I don't know,Colleen Schnettler  17:10  it sounds to me like you feel stuck, or trapped. Yeah. And the situation superMichele Hansen  17:14  stuck. And I don't know how to get unstuck.Colleen Schnettler  17:19  So it seems like the first step is decrease your stress level. Yes. I mean, here's the thing, you're in the middle of it. And so don't freak out. But let's just let's just think outside the box. Okay. So you're in the middle of this super, super high, intense, stressful situation. But I'm going to still say that a lot of it is of your own making. And yeah. And I understand that you don't want to give up the book promo, or you don't want to do our podcast less because these are things you really enjoy. But your health, you know, has to be your happiness. That should be number one.Michele Hansen  18:02  But like why do I take away the things that make me happy? Oh, IColleen Schnettler  18:06  didn't say take them away. You aren't ready for Collins great ideas. Oh, God, what is Collins great ideas. Okay, so I'm just gonna throw these things out there not to scare you. Just to and I don't want you to problem solve or tell me why you can't do them. Just to show you that. Like, there are options even if they seem absolutely crazy. Okay,Michele Hansen  18:28  are you ready? Okay, okay, I will I will play along. Okay, just play along with Romani. Okay,Colleen Schnettler  18:33  you could move back to the United States. Now listen, one, okay, could sell geocoder do and take two years off and you don't work at all. You could hire someone to be you. And I know the onboarding of that you had you don't want it. You've told me a million times. I know you don't want to hire someone. But if you could get a system in place where you only work, you don't have to work on geocode do you'd still be working full time in the eyes of the Danish government? But you yourself wouldn't have to be managing the contracts and putting in the hours. There's like they don't you know as long as you're they think you're working ish. The full I have toMichele Hansen  19:12  be working. Hello. Danish government people listening.Colleen Schnettler  19:17  I wait. I mean, I would be working because you would be managing okay, you would be working. Because you would be managing a person who was doing the things for you? What if you just stopped doing what would happen? If you did nothing for God? Oh, except like legally required things like, like, you What if you just on your website, you go to your website today? You say we are not taking any more customers for six months. Shut it down. I mean, don't shut it down. But like, what if you were just like, No, no one else gets to come on six months. I mean, there's options. I know these sound crazy to you. Okay, no idea. Okay. I'm just trying to I'm just like trying to help you see that, like, roll their eyes.Unknown Speaker  19:57  You're like, I see it. See?Colleen Schnettler  20:03  You and I know you love promote. And so then of course, then there's the smaller things, but I don't think not like depending on your, your rate of promoting the book. Yeah, you could just totally stop again, it's a book, it's not going to go anywhere, totally stop for six months. Right? All this stuff will be here, once you are recovered, but your health and your happiness that is your life, this is your life. And Michelle, you have made it. And you, you're so stressed. And that makes me sad.Michele Hansen  20:36  You know, I remember I always remember hearing, you know, money doesn't buy happiness when I was a kid. And, you know, he always interpreted that to mean Oh, yeah, you can't just you know, I don't know, go buy yourself something and then feel happy. And they don't tell you how bitter it is, when you're in a situation that can't be solved by money.Colleen Schnettler  21:02  Yeah, that's intense,Michele Hansen  21:05  even when you could have it and, you know, I mean, money by as, you know, therapy and coaches and, you know, help with cleaning the house and or, you know, employees for that matter. You know, whatever else, but you know, money truly doesn't buy happiness. And that is a bitter pill to swallow.Colleen Schnettler  21:25  Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of other small things you can do, which may help but they might just be bandaids. And so I really think you need to take a good look at like you, you're so happy in in what you have built with your husband, the work your work environment, and what you are building with the book like, but it doesn't seem right now. And it's been this way for a while, right? This hasn't been a month, this hasn't been two months, it's been this way for a while where it doesn't seem like it's bringing you overall happiness to the extent maybe you thought it would, and it might just be have too much going on. But like, I'm worried about you. That's there. I said it.Michele Hansen  22:09  I think the fact that I have so much going on right now is like bringing these other issues to the fore like we have talked in the past about how I really struggled with work life balance, and like, if like, like I really love working on giuoco do and both of us like we're not selling the business, we we both really enjoy working on it and working on it together. Like, but if I could work 12 hour days on do co do and book stuff like I would do that and be totally happy to do that. Yes, I could blame this on Okay, the extra stress of spending 10 hours a week in language school is like, really adding a lot of stress to this. But I don't think that gets to the bottom, like, like, I don't think I'm being honest with myself. If I say that, that is the problem like that is just like the straw that's breaking the camel's back here. That's, like I struggle with work boundaries. I struggle with, you know, prioritizing myself, like, and giving myself a break and feeling like I deserve a break. Like I think this is this conversation here is like, I don't feel like I can take a break. I don't feel like I deserve a break. I don't feel like it's something that's available to me. Um, I definitely consider myself a recovering workaholic and somebody who wrapped up way too much of their self worth and self identity in work. Which is not as bad as it used to be but like, like, I feel like those things are the real issues and like you know, we kind of talked about how doing that exercise at like well that exercise at founder summit, but also like when it comes to like business like I'm like super competent, and like confident and and like I just make decisions and I feel very self assured and I find it easy to move forward. You tend to like doubt yourself and do a lot of research and feel stuck and like really struggle with that but like when it comes to taking care of yourself and your work life balance and your social life and your your health and everything like you are like so decisive and confident and just make decisions and implement things and do things. And I'm like totally the opposite. Like we're completely opposite.Unknown Speaker  24:38  Yep. On these two things,Michele Hansen  24:40  and you're like, you have to have better work life balance and I'm like, like, how, how do like what's like, I don't know what that means. Like, I think I need to read a book on how to relax like, you know, like, Where where is this guide? Where is this schedule of like,Unknown Speaker  24:59  I can Please be the episode of this. I need to read a book about how to relax. Please title the episode like, that's amazing.Michele Hansen  25:07  Seriously, like, I feel like if you ever got to a point where like you were like I'm too stressed out, like you would immediately cut back on working and feel no guilt or shame or reservations and like just make it work.Colleen Schnettler  25:21  Yeah, absolutely. I think maybe my I mean, I think my experience is a lot different from yours being a military spouse with three kids. If I can't, I have to take care. I mean, they're older now. But like when they were little, like if I wasn't healthy, mentally, physically, whatever, I could not care for all these little people. And so I think part of it is I learned that years ago, like, if I don't have my shit in order, this whole thing falls apart. Because Nick was gone all the time. My husband, you know, he travels a lot for a long, long, long period of time. So I have learned over the years how important it is to prioritize myself really. And it's my life. Right? Let's get back to that. Like, this is your life. Like, how do you want to live it? I mean, right. Not the way you're living it right now. Not with this incredibly burdening like anvil of stress on your shoulders.Michele Hansen  26:19  Yeah, I mean, I feel I like something you said to me at founder Summit, one of our I don't know if this was our debrief knife, when we we ordered guacamole at midnight, I did some self pampering so good. That like you're like, you know, I met all these people who are super successful, and their businesses are where I want to be. And they're, like, I'm happier than them. Like, they're all miserable. Like,Unknown Speaker  26:47  I'm a little embarrassed that you shared that on the podcast, but I did. So we can love you all, thank you for chatting with me. Because not all of your character.Michele Hansen  26:59  Not all of them were miserable. But like they had a lot of, you know, business problems. And it created a lot of like, personal problems, and you didn't want to have those problems, like the stress of managing employees and just, you know, all this other stuff like, but like, you know, you're saying how like your work life balance is really good. Your family life is really good. Like, you've talked about how you're hesitant to work more because you don't want to disrupt how good your personal and then like family life is. And like Yeah, I like I just, I don't even I don't even know how to wrap my head around that. So that's it my family life is bad, or I don't like them. Like I do. Like it's just I don't know, like, it'sUnknown Speaker  27:48  a lot. You're like, well, I you know,Michele Hansen  27:51  what if there's nights when you know, Nick wanted to hang out, and then I'm working and I'm like, What is this world where like, the default is not like, one of your like, is that what you thought? Like I said, your laptop? Like what is that? Like, I was just like, that's like so normal for us that like, you know, one of us has some sort of work to do we have to do all the time. Like and we're better than we used to be but like Yeah, and like, I don't know, hanging out with your spouse. Like I just I don't I don't even know like I don't know. i Our marriage is so funny. Our marriage is very different. Um, I just really I don't know, I feel very stuck. And I feel like all these solutions everyone is giving me I'm still like, Well, that was work wouldn't work because this and this wouldn't work. Isn't that like, I'm still I don't know what yeah, that but I'm being very obstinate. I'm not being very, very compliance person to be helped.Colleen Schnettler  28:53  That's what I think that was Shawn's point about, like, when you say I cannot change anything, that's when you know, you need to change something.Michele Hansen  29:00  Yeah. Yeah.Colleen Schnettler  29:04  Yeah, yeah. And it's a whole mindset shift. So actually, I was talking to my other business parent, partner Aaron about this yesterday. And I said that same thing where I was like, I feel like I'm happier than most people. And he was like, Why do you think that is? And I had a couple I had many reasons, but like one of them to like, again, as, like we, as a military spouse, like our friends actually die. I mean, that's like, in real life, like people die. Close friends of ours have died. And I think, you know, when that happens, like my good friend down the street is a widow. She was widowed at 29 with two kids. That really gives you perspective. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, I think that really, really helps. I think I'm really good at keeping perspective because I live in this world that is so much more dangerous than everyone else's world. It's like what is really important. You get one life, you don't know how long it's going to be. How do you want to spend it?Michele Hansen  29:57  It sounds like you take that perspective. Not as you know that your problems don't matter because you're not dead, or that your spouse isn't dead, it's more, which I think is often how that comes across. But it's more so that being surrounded by death, or having it, surrounded by it, but yeah, that was a little. Having it, having it be this kind of looming part of the community kind of like having having it be a presence in the community in a way that it's really not in mind. Like, it forces you to reevaluate those things, and to not take your time for granted. Which, you know, I mean, like, I mean, and, and I don't know, and he's also sort of an ADHD person thing, where, like, we struggle with the concept of time, and like, there's these great talks about how like, ADHD is this disorder of how you perceive time, and like, Hmm, you know, we let things expand to the amount of time allotted, and then some and so we need, like, deadlines for this stuff, like, and so if I feel like there's no deadline on me feeling better, or prioritizing myself, or whatever it is, like I just, I will just fill that time with other things because, and it has been externally set deadline to like, if I make up my own deadline, like, I will blow through it, like, it just, it's like, it doesn't exist, because I know it's made up, like I like outsmart the deadline, like, to my own detriment. Um, you know, but that doesn't, that time doesn't last forever. And it sounds like you get reminders that, you know, none of us are guaranteed any amount of time.Colleen Schnettler  31:38  So, and to be fair, like, on the other side of that coin, I sometimes I'm not, I want to say convinced, but I am sometimes concerned that like all of my businesses will not be successful, because I'm not willing to sacrifice everything else in my life. And, you know, so there's two sides to that, right? Like, I might always have a SAS that makes $1,000 a month and just hang out here, because I'm not willing to work 8090 100 hours a week to make it happen. So you know, trade offs, butMichele Hansen  32:10  I also I don't feel like I'm sacrificing everything because I still do have like, like, family life is also something I'm not going to sacrifice because I think it's something that I did in the past. And now I don't you know, I mean, like today's like, kind of a totally packed day for me, schedule wise. And I was like, you know, tonight, I'm just gonna, like, put our daughter to bed and probably, like, fall asleep with her. Like, but you know, we hadColleen Schnettler  32:41  her, but it is 530 Your time right now already. So, you know, I have something after that. Right. And you're going to do another podcast as soon as we get off this podcast. So and I know a lot of that is timezone stuff. ButMichele Hansen  32:53  which suck. I hate them. Yeah. Like not being able to do anything with customers until like 8am at the earliest, or at sorry, like 2pm if they're an early riser, usually 3pm Six, if it's California, like, yeah, that isColleen Schnettler  33:11  rough. Okay, so let's go back. Let's circle back circle back to you. Because we got a little distracted. And how we get the circle back. I know we're running out of time to solve all your problems. So in 30 minutes,Unknown Speaker  33:30  I think we have five minutes left till your next podcast.Colleen Schnettler  33:35  But seriously, like, what what is your? I'm so happy. Okay, so when you brought this up yesterday with our group, I was so happy to see that, because it showed me that you were fine. You were finally seeing it. And so what is your plan?Michele Hansen  33:52  Dude, I don't have one. I we I'm stuck in the middle of this like,Colleen Schnettler  33:56  so you don't know. You're still young? No idea, I think. Yeah.Michele Hansen  34:00  I mean, I was like, trying this week. I was like, maybe I can like, you know, dude, you could do stuff like Tuesday, Wednesday, and then do extracurricular stuff Thursday, but then it kind of ended up meshing together. And I'm like, actually, I really need to, like, sequester myself and like, get several focused hours of work done on like, Monday afternoons, like, I don't know, that just sounds like more like planning and scheduling. And when it does sound like that sounds like you know, sort of optimizing within the current bounds rather than like actually stepping back and taking time to like, reflect and focus on myself, which is just I think that's the bigger thing is I don't know how to do that. Like, well, and I was like, should I hire a coach, but then I was like, I feel like I don't have time for more meetings. Like, you know, it's just like a coach. IColleen Schnettler  34:51  hire a relaxing coach. How do I relax, coach? Yeah, I think you're right, like trying to over optimize your schedule is not the solution. You have to fundamentally changed the box, right? And I knowMichele Hansen  35:02  the paradigm is wrong. And I'm just working within the current paradigm because I don't know anything else. I just got it. It's not working.Colleen Schnettler  35:11  Right? Like, I know those ideas I threw out, I know you're not going to sell the company or hire someone or move to the United States. But my point is like, you could I mean, there are other options that are available to me. So try to think outside the box because you have to change the box because the box is not working for you. Yeah.Michele Hansen  35:31  Yeah. Well, that's a lot for me to,Unknown Speaker  35:37  you're gonna think about it. You promise?Michele Hansen  35:39  I'm gonna think about it. I'm gonna buy some books about stuff. I don't know. I don't know.Unknown Speaker  35:52  Okay, I was giving myselfMichele Hansen  35:53  homework not the solution, either.Unknown Speaker  35:55  That's not not the solution is read a book about how to relax, read a book about how to stop writingMichele Hansen  36:02  about relaxing, right? Like, it's not like, relaxing without meditating. Like,Colleen Schnettler  36:06  it's not the right word. You know,Michele Hansen  36:08  I already meditate anyway. Like, it's not like it's, yeah, it's I don't know, I don't know what it like, I don't know anybody listening. You've gone through burnout. You have some the, I feel like at this point, I less need like solutions from people. And I more need, like, hope thinking about it, if that makes sense. Like framing a problem. Right? Yeah. So anyway, if anyone's gone through this, like, let me know, and you want to, you know, DM with me or something about it, and, or you have a book that like really helped you when you went through it. I feel like burnout is I've gathered that's very different for everyone. And the solutions are very different from everyone. So think I'm intentionally not asking for solutions, because that needs to be something that I figure out, right? Otherwise, because I'm just gonna sit here. Yeah, no, it's gonna work. That's gonna work and then I'm not gonna do what the problem, right? I need to I don't know. I need to think different think outside the box. You did new box.Colleen Schnettler  37:13  You need a new box. Okay, well, I wish you luck. Keep me posted on how it goes. And I think with that, we will wrap up this week's episode of the software Show podcast. Please reach out to Michelle on Twitter. If you have any advice or you yourself have gone through burnout. I think those would be welcome conversations. And let us know what you thought of the show. We're at software slash pod till next week.Michele Hansen  37:40  This episode was also brought to you by tele tele is a browser based screen recorder. For videos that showcase your work and share your knowledge. You can capture your screen, camera and present slides. You can also customize your videos with backgrounds layouts and other video clips. Tella makes it easy to record updates for your teammates, launch videos for your followers and demos for your customers. Record your next product demo with tele visit tele.tv/software Social to get 30% off tele proMichele HansenThis episode was also brought to you by Tella.Tella is a browser-based screen recorder for videos that showcase your work and share your knowledge.You can capture your screen, camera, and present slides. You can also customise your videos with backgrounds, layouts, and other video clips.Tella makes it easy to record updates for your team mates, launch videos for your followers, and demos for your customers.Record your next product demo with Tella.Visit tella.tv/softwaresocial to get 30% off Tella Pro

This week, we're talking about how to develop a habit of uncomplicated prayer, and how to establish and live a deeply formed life. Rich Villodas joins us today. And in preparation for this conversation, I Googled the phrase "Why am I." And what followed was no surprise at all: "Why am I so tired" and "Why am I always tired." So, I'd like to propose that one of the contributing factors to our chronic exhaustion is the fact that we are carrying burdens we should be laying down. And learning how to do that consistently is at the foundation of the deeply formed life. If you enjoy this episode with Rich, I'm sure you'll also enjoy: 260: Self-Defeating Behavior, Living a Lie, and the Path to Inner Peace (feat. John Mark Comer) 257: Burnout, Managing Energy, and How to Live at Your Best (feat. Carey Nieuwhof) Episode Links: Rich's Website | Instagram | Facebook | Buy Rich's new book on Amazon! Subscribe to #WinTodayShow on YouTube. Join the conversation wherever hashtags are welcome using #WinTodayShow.

Episode NotesPublished on November 15, 2021Our Hosts:Mike Ercolano's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mike_ercolano/Kelly Krauss' Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kkrauss76/John Espodito's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/john_esposito15/Next Generation Training Center: https://nextgenerationtrainingcenter.com/NextGen Radio Podcast: https://nextgenerationtrainingcenter.com/nextgenradio/Transcript and TimestampsSpeaker 1 (00:00):What's up everybody? Thank you for listening to NextGen Radio, this is a podcast for those of you thatwant the truth and nothing but the truth when it comes to diet, exercise, and all things health. This isepisode number 40. We're so excited for another round number episode. Because number 40 isdefinitely a milestone compared to 39 and 41. But thank you for hanging in for 40 episodes with us. Wedo appreciate all of our steady listeners up until this point, and hopefully we can continue to get a littlebit better at this, and continue to give you more and more value and gain some more listeners. In fact,you can help us do that by subscribing, giving us a five-star review, andSpeaker 2 (00:44):Sharing.Speaker 1 (00:44):Yeah, sharing it with your friends and family. That would be great. So thank you again for helping us getto another round number. The next round number, I'll celebrate that one with you, number 50, that'dbe a big round number.Speaker 2 (00:58):When did we start? Do you remember? I think it was this time.Speaker 1 (01:01):It was probably around this time.Speaker 2 (01:01):And there was snow, wasn't that like our first one?Speaker 1 (01:01):I think that was like our second, it might have been our first, I don't know. We could go back and lookobviously.Speaker 2 (01:09):And it's funny, if you watch how it all started and how we all moved around and how we changedmicrophones, the whole system of it, I think we finally got it.Speaker 1 (01:17):We got it for now, yeah. But we'll change it again I'm sure.Speaker 2 (01:19):We've got that whole little board like that upstairs, that was your first one.Speaker 1 (01:23):Yeah, that didn't last for any episode because we couldn't get multi-track ... Or maybe it lasted for likeone ... No, we didn't use it for any because I couldn't do multi-track mics on it, so it would all just berecording to one.Speaker 2 (01:34):That's pointless.Speaker 1 (01:35):Yeah, so that was a waste of money.Speaker 2 (01:37):Totally. Well it's fine, you can sell it.Speaker 1 (01:38):But, you live and learn, right? I live and learn, that's part of the process. So one day when we're bigfamous podcasters, like Joe Rogan, we can look back at these good old days of we were roughing it. Butuntil thenSpeaker 2 (01:52):We've got a plant in here now.Speaker 1 (01:53):We do have a plant, yeah.Speaker 2 (01:54):Things are really happening.Speaker 1 (01:55):We're moving on up, yeah, we're definitely moving up. Maybe not after they listen to this intro, wemight be losing listeners now. But yeah, we do appreciate you, thank you for listening, and please do allof the things we mentioned before. We would like to grow this show and give as much value as we canto as many people as we can. And yeah ... I don't know how to finish that, so ...Speaker 2 (02:24):Yeah, just give you something fun to listen to. You know, where you learn something and you laugh alittle.Speaker 1 (02:27):Yeah, we try and have a little fun and try to make the topic of health and fitness a little bit more lightand more interesting, because it can be pretty boring or a pretty harsh topic, I guess. Because you know... Or maybe not harsh, but there's a lot of different buckets, a lot of different types of angles and viewson this and frankly, we don't feel that anyone should be fitting into one specific mold. We talk toeverybody, we like to learn from everybody, whether it's in the fitness world or health world, nutritionworld. But we also like to help with everybody, whether it's athletes or adults or girls, like you'reempowering girls. We seem to talk about every week now, but it's a program that's really doing anamazing thing for these girls that are in.Speaker 2 (03:19): Yeah, we're having a lot of fun.Speaker 1 (03:19):And you're doing a great job with them.Speaker 2 (03:21):Thank you, yeah, we're having a good time. It's funny to see ... I'm kind of playing off them as to thetopics that they want to talk about. So each week there's a giveaway and that, I found out after the firstweek that was a must. They really enjoy getting this little bag with little things to do. One week wasabout protein and protein shakes, and they got all these samples of fruit and spinach and powderedpeanut butter and chia seeds to put in there. And then they kind of come back with what their favoriteprotein shake was.Speaker 1 (03:49):Cool, I like that.Speaker 2 (03:50):Yeah. So then they got journals, which I think we talked about last week. But it was funny, the end oflast week, they talked about ... I'm going to say this wrong, aciagi? Do you know what I'm talking about?A-C-I-A. I can never saySpeaker 1 (04:05):Yeah, acai?Speaker 2 (04:06):There, that's it. Thank you. So they were very caught up with these bowls, right. So of course,automatically, I'm like, "Well that's easy enough, I just get them the acai, I get them some extra stuff,and then how great can this be?" But then I'm looking at it and I'm like, "How am I making a lesson outof this? How is this a nutrition discussion?" And then it hit me right in the face just looking at the sugarof all of this stuff. And how it's deemed healthy, and then you go to all of those places where you buy aplaya bowl, those can be 800 calories.Speaker 1 (04:37):Yeah, they're crazy.Speaker 2 (04:38):It's ridiculous. I would never go there thinking health in mind, but I've got to tell you, I think a lot ofpeople do.Speaker 1 (04:44):And they market that way too. I don't know if they actually say health anywhere, but they .. I guess justSpeaker 2 (04:50):They give the image of it. Speaker 1 (04:50): Like their branding, and everything that gives off that. Actually, there's one in Danville that I went to not to long ago, because I've been going to my neck guy over in Danville and I stopped there for lunch because, obviously, I'd heard of them and I've never really eaten at them. And to find something that fit my diet, it was tough. I ended up getting some sort of ... It was a chia pudding with protein powder, and couldn't even finish it. Speaker 2 (05:25): Because it was gross? Oh huge. Speaker 1 (05:25): Well it was such a big portion of it, number one. It was like eating a huge bowl of mush. You can only eat so much of a chia pudding, but again, that was the only thing that I could really get off the menu that fit what I was looking for. And I'm not really following anything strict, I'm just looking for something that's low in sugar and in a specific calorie range to fit where I'm at in the day, and making sure I'm getting some protein in. I'm really not following anything hardcore. Speaker 2 (05:53): Right, but it's clean, you're looking to eat clean. Speaker 1 (05:54): It's clean. And sugar is one of the most important factors I look at though. And sugar plays a big role in my decisions in what I eat. And frankly, there wasn't many options there that had low enough sugar for me to want to eat it. So the thing I got, this was gross. It wasn't gross, it was good for four or five bites, but trying to eat the whole thing for lunch and slam it down was not ... And I got peanut butter in it, but it was definitely no good peanut ... It was definitely processed, probably in a squeeze tube to then squishSpeaker 2 (06:22): Right, totally processed. Speaker 1 (06:26): It was not what I was expecting out of it, from what I've heard about those places. Because again, they seem to come across as being healthy. Speaker 2 (06:34): Right, "Let me try the healthy option." Like frozen yogurt, but if you throw chocolate fudge and whipped cream and all the fixings on it, well guess what you just did to your healthy frozen yogurt. Speaker 1 (06:43): Right. So yeah, that's a great topic, because those stores are popping up everywhere, but they're just kind of a microcosm of what's actually going on in our world of health. People are choosing options that seem to be healthy, that are marketed as being healthy, or that are branded as health food, but they're loaded with sugars, or their loaded with added sugars, or loaded with fake sugars, or a lot of processedstuff. So it's really up to the consumer to be your own advocate, like we talked about.Speaker 2 (07:21):Exactly.Speaker 1 (07:22):I'm telling you, we're going to change the name of the show to Be Your Own Advocate, the NextGenRadio Show, or something like that. Because we've got to keep our branding, because it's really our ...It's our [gym 00:07:30] show.Speaker 2 (07:30):Be your own advocate in the next generation.Speaker 1 (07:34):We'll figure it out.Speaker 2 (07:35):Still working on it.Speaker 1 (07:37):Because if we had more listeners than just our members then maybe we would be able to change ourbranding, but we've got to stick with our jam, this is our listener base. So anyway, back on topic beforewe go off to a tangent. So yeah, those added, those hidden sugars are killer to anyone who's trying to beon a diet, but more important, are terrible to anyone who's trying to be healthy. So it's kind of a ...Speaker 2 (08:06):Did they give you a calorie count on the menu? I'm sure they didn't tell you the sugar.Speaker 1 (08:10):I looked it all up, I was on my phone.Speaker 2 (08:12):Okay, but not on the menu?Speaker 1 (08:14):I don't really remember to be honest with you. Because I looked up everything. I was honestly a littlenervous walking into that place, I had no idea what toSpeaker 2 (08:22):What to do?Speaker 1 (08:22): I saw all these 13 year olds walking in because of course it was lunch time too, so I guess there's a schoolaround there. So I don't know, I don't want to be like the adult who walks in and has no idea how toorder and be like that old guy who doesn't know what to ... So I was looking it all up on my phone sothat when I walked in ... And of course, it's all kind of COVID-y. They still areSpeaker 2 (08:45):Behind glass?Speaker 1 (08:45):I think they kind of are six feet apart, I thought they had hanging, or I think they have hanging, fromwhat I remember ... So I was kind of ... I felt like in Seinfeld, the soup kitchen, you stand there in lineSpeaker 2 (08:55):Yeah, move, move.Speaker 1 (08:57):And then you walk up. So I walked up, I was like, "Chia pudding with peanut butter please." And justmoved over to the side, so I didn't really look at the menu there, but I did look at all of that stuff onlineand I Googled ... And like I said before, there weren't many options that weren't loaded with sugar. Andthat's everywhere, added sugar ... Actually, I have that written down as my number one note is ... WhenI knew that we were going to talk about some sugar today is that added sugar is actually the real enemyof everything, it's not real sugar. Real sugar that's naturally occurring in fruit, yes, it is still sugar and yourbody still is going to register that as sugar, so you can definitely eat too much of it, you can definitelyeffect your insulin levels if you're eating tons and tons of fruit all the time I guess.Speaker 2 (09:50):Yeah sure, your blood sugar can go up and down, absolutely.Speaker 1 (09:51):Give yourself diabetes, yeah. But just looking in the context of what is happening our our worldSpeaker 2 (10:00):It's all illusion.Speaker 1 (10:01):It's the added sugars, it's the branding of being healthy, and that all started back in the low-fat era withall of these lobbyists who legit made fat the enemy. They made fat the enemy, because they were sugarlobbyists, and they made fat the enemy, and we could go down a whole rabbit hole with that today, weprobably shouldn't do that because we're short on time, and I do want to talk about most of the healthparts about this, because I think it's an important topic for people to listen to.Speaker 2 (10:40):So for the girls this week I gave them ... It was a frozen packet and there was four frozen ... I don't know,servings of acai. Speaker 1 (10:50):Okay, there you go.Speaker 2 (10:51):Thank you. And for reference here, there's 100 calories in one of those packets and it's 24% of your dailyvalue of sugar, and it was 12 grams of sugar. So that's for one packet. Okay, now you're reading the backof this thing, so how do I do this? How do I make this bowl? They tell you to use two packets. Theserving size says one, but if you're following the directions of how to make this bowl, they're telling youto use two packets.Speaker 1 (11:17):So one serving size is two packets.Speaker 2 (11:18):Yeah.Speaker 1 (11:18):One serving equals two packets.Speaker 2 (11:19):Yeah, but that's not what it says on the label.Speaker 1 (11:22):Right, so one pack is ... But that label is one pack, so one serving size to make would require two packs,right?Speaker 2 (11:30):No. One serving is supposed to be one packet. But now they're telling you, and this is what I'mSpeaker 1 (11:34):To make it with two of them?Speaker 2 (11:35):Yes.Speaker 1 (11:35):I got you.Speaker 2 (11:36):So let's make this giant bowl. And I've got to tell you, you don't need ... First of all, you don't need thisgiant bowl, you know, a little thing is plenty. So I give them that, then I go and find the lowest sugargranola I can find, because that's fun. They have a birthday cake flavored one. And I gave them all of thenutrition ... Speaker 1 (11:56):Facts.Speaker 2 (11:57):Thank you. Of everything on there. And it was beautiful, because one was like, "Oh my god, I can'tbelieve how much sugar is in here." And I go, "Thank you, that's exactly what my point was about all ofthis." So first of all, we see what the serving sizes are, let's stick to them. And even in their little ... Ididn't even give them a 1/3 cup of granola, because that was over 130 calories. And you didn't need it, itwas such a big serving. Granola is so sweet. So anyway, my point with this whole thing was to get themto understand to read the nutrition facts, to get them to understand a serving size and to stick with it.And that was one of our takeaways for the week, was to look at sugar and to look at serving sizes and tryto stick with those facts. Because it's very easy ... And right away, right on this pack, I couldn't believe it,right on this pack it's telling you to make this concoction and double the serving size.Speaker 1 (12:51):Well that's a whole nother topic, is portion control, because we frankly, honestly, eat way too much andway too big servings in this country, but the rest of the world is catching up too. But you're expecting tohave a bowl of health food, and you have a bowl of sugar because of how they are telling you to make itor what not. How do the girls take away from that? What do they take away from that? Did they thinkthat was ridiculous?Speaker 2 (13:23):Yeah, because then we went over the whole teaspoon of four grams of sugar and if you do that littlemath equation in your head, "Oh my god, that's a lot."Speaker 1 (13:30):Do you know how many teaspoons it came out? Because how many grams did it end up saying?Speaker 2 (13:35):Of in the acai? How many grams of sugar?Speaker 1 (13:38):Yeah.Speaker 2 (13:40):12.Speaker 1 (13:40):It was 12?Speaker 2 (13:43):Yeah, so that's three teaspoons.Speaker 1 (13:44): Right.Speaker 2 (13:45):So that's what I told them, you have to do the ... It's very easy math, but just think of that teaspoons.Think about putting three teaspoons in your mouth of sugar, plain sugar.Speaker 1 (13:54):Right. And I don't know exactly where the study is, so I do apologize because I'm not going to be able tocite it, but there's a study that showed that women should only consume six teaspoons of sugar a day.So if you have one bowl of health food acai bowl, you're already half-way there. So it's crazy.Speaker 2 (14:13):It's crazy. And again, with these girls I'm careful about nutrition and, "Don't eat this." I don't have thatconversation at all, it's just being mindful of what you're eating. And I showed them a real portion size ofgranola and I showed them it halved, which is what I'd given them, and I'm like, "This is way more thanenough, but this is what tends to make people go over." And even though something is deemed healthy,you've got to be your own advocate, because it's definitely not.Speaker 1 (14:40):Yeah, you've got to do your homework.Speaker 2 (14:43):At the end of that bowl, there was probably 30 grams of sugar by the time they were done.Speaker 1 (14:47):Right. And here's the thing, every now and then, sure that's fine. But for the average person who isgetting that in the rest of their food as well, they're probably getting that in their lunch and also in theirdinner, that's the problem. And it's in all of our foods, and it's ... I don't know, we've talked about itbeing an addiction before, I don't know. I think addiction is kind of a strong word. But maybe thecravings are so strong that it's very tough for people to pass up on it. It becomes part of if you have foodwithout it, you don't get that same effect, both for your taste and for your physically, because you don'tget that insulin spike that you're used to getting. So it's something that's found in a lot of foodspurposefully, processed foods purposefully, to get you to eat more of it, frankly, and to want more of itbecause as you're coming down from that crash, you're feeling kind of crappy. So you're craving it more,so if you eat more of it you'll pick yourself right back up.Speaker 2 (15:45):All right, now just to segway out of this, not to cut you off, but I have my Reader's Digest here that talksabout sugar.Speaker 1 (15:50):Can't have an episode without it.Speaker 2 (15:52): And number five is snacks that sneak in the sugar. Do you want to guess?Speaker 1 (15:57):Snacks thatSpeaker 2 (15:58):Yeah, foods that you would think they're healthy but they're high in sugar.Speaker 1 (16:05):Fig Newtons.Speaker 2 (16:06):No.Speaker 1 (16:07):Okay, Werther's mint thingies.Speaker 2 (16:13):No, okay. Oatmeal. Right? Because when you pick up the brown sugar oatmeal, when you look at thatlittle packet that's so easy to eat, and you think Oatmeal is healthy for you, full of fiber. But now they'repacking it full of all kinds of sugars and stuff.Speaker 1 (16:25):Right, and I'd recommend probably staying away from those instant packs too.Speaker 2 (16:28):Oh yeah, I like making my own.Speaker 1 (16:31):Absolutely, me too.Speaker 2 (16:33):Yeah, here they said heaping on an extra tablespoon of brown sugar adds an extra 12 grams of sugar.Speaker 1 (16:38):Yeah, that's the add on, that's the added sugar.Speaker 2 (16:40):Would you ever put brown sugar on your ...Speaker 1 (16:41):No? Speaker 2 (16:41):What do you put in your oatmeal I mean?Speaker 1 (16:44):My oatmeal, I haven't had it in a long time because I've been changing my feeding window a bit, but Iwould just put fruit on itSpeaker 2 (16:54):Do you heat it up?Speaker 1 (16:55):-A handful of blueberries. Yeah, I mean I would do both overnight oats and that, but I like hot oatmealbetter. Yeah, so just blueberries, maybe some nuts, walnuts, almonds, shaved almonds, a little bit ofpeanut butter depending on the day if I wasSpeaker 2 (17:09):You're such a peanut butter guy.Speaker 1 (17:10):Yeah. It depends on the day, yeah. But yeah, but I wouldn't put sugar on it, no.Speaker 2 (17:16):Smoothies.Speaker 1 (17:18):Yeah.Speaker 2 (17:19):A medium 16 ounce store-bought smoothie has 30-80 grams of sugar.Speaker 1 (17:23):Yeah, it's like a soda, more than soda.Speaker 2 (17:26):What are those juices they sell? They're in a nice bottle, they look likeSpeaker 1 (17:29):The Naked?Speaker 2 (17:30):Yes. Holy shit.Speaker 1 (17:32): Yeah, loaded with sugar.Speaker 2 (17:32):The green one, I think, has the least amount of sugar and it's over 26 grams of sugar.Speaker 1 (17:36):Yeah, remember we used to fight with Brian about it? Brian used to say, "It's healthy."Speaker 2 (17:41):"I'm healthy."Speaker 1 (17:41):It's like, "Bro, that's more than the soda you're going to have at lunch." Because he's having soda atlunch. But those are not ... Yes, they might be whole real foods, which is what we talk about all the time,to eat whole real foods, but don't eat 40 of them, don't eat 40 apples in one sitting because it's thesame thing going back to what we said before, it's still sugar, your body is still processing it as sugar.Speaker 2 (18:02):And again, that's a processed concoction. If you're going to juice your own stuff, at least that's muchbetter.Speaker 1 (18:09):That's why I never buy protein shakes, almost never, I shouldn't say never. But I almost never buy shakesout, I just make my own. Why would I buy something out that I don't have control of what's going in it?Most of the time ... Yes, the ones I buy out are good because they probably put stuff in there that makeit sweeter, betterSpeaker 2 (18:28):Well you're buying them at a real place, not off a shelf.Speaker 1 (18:30):No but I mean, right, maybe they taste a little bit better than mine at home because they're puttingother shit in it that changes it, it makes it sweeter. But I make my own stuff, I know what's going in it, Ican control it. It's a hell of a lot cheaper. It's a hell of a lot to cheaper to make my ... What was thatexample of the shake?Speaker 2 (18:50):The smoothie?Speaker 1 (18:50):Yeah, the smoothie.Speaker 2 (18:51):16 ounces is 30-80 grams of sugar. Speaker 1 (18:54):30-80, and that's probably, at least here in New Jersey, that's probably a nine dollar smoothie.Speaker 2 (19:01):Easily.Speaker 1 (19:01):A nine dollar smoothie before tax and everything, maybe you're spending 12 bucks on that, 15 bucks onthat.Speaker 2 (19:05):And there's probably cookies in there. You know like here's the girl scout flavored smoothie.Speaker 1 (19:09):Right, exactly. But yeah, so make your own smoothies.Speaker 2 (19:13):Yeah please.Speaker 1 (19:14):But again, going to that added sugar, if you do your own and you pay attention to it, my shake doesn'thave any added sugar in it, I know what's in it. Again, that's probably whySpeaker 2 (19:25):But again, if you're getting your sugar from your fruit, that's where you're supposed to get it from. That'swhere your body wants to get it from.Speaker 1 (19:29):Right, because generally speaking, you're not going to over-eat fruit. You're not going to ... Your body isgoing to tell you when enough's enough with fruit, for the most part. I mean, I guess you could ... I havehad the munchies before where I've just went to town on grapes or blueberries, something you can pickand not think about. But that's not happening every night.Speaker 2 (19:53):No, and that's still different.Speaker 1 (19:56):It's still different. Yeah, I mean my blood sugar was probably pretty spiked from that.Speaker 2 (20:00):One topic I definitely want to hit up on, maybe next week or the following week, is the glycemic index.Because that's very interesting, and dieticians get really pissed off when you talk about it, becausethey're like, "Nobody ever got fat eating tomatoes." But there is a place for it, and I really learned a lot with Andy's situation, I want to talk about it maybe next week, about that, and not mixing tomatoes and a banana in his lunch and the importance of that if you are looking at blood sugar. Speaker 1 (20:26): No, I like that. And even when you're just going off of that, yeah, sugar is sugar, but if you're going to have that sweet, that snack, obviously we're not trying to tell you not to eat fruit, but it is again for another topic. But it is important timing wise, you don't want to be doing that right before bed, you don't want to be consuming sugar right before bed. But just to give you a break down, one cup of strawberries has 7 grams of sugar, but there's 11 grams of sugar in one of those strawberry flavored fruit snack things, like one little tiny pouch thing. So a cup of strawberries is a pretty significant amount of strawberries, right? Speaker 2 (21:12): Yeah, that will keep you busy for a while. Speaker 1 (21:13): Yeah, and one of those little packs, I mean how many times can you probably eat more than one of those littleSpeaker 2 (21:20): There's like five or six in there, yeah. So you have to eat like three. Speaker 1 (21:23): So just in comparison to the size of how much volume process added sugar compared to real natural sugar. Speaker 2 (21:33): Yeah, no. It's all hidden in there. And looking at portion sizes, again, same thing. I always look for that, like edamame, I always go for that for the first snack because it keeps you busy. It's so the same thing with popcorn. If you're snacking or you're watching TV and you're someone who constantly needs to feel like you're eating, I always go towards that. Speaker 1 (21:53): Yeah, well it's smart, and that's exactly what I was saying before when I had the munchies, I was just sitting there going to town, I should have had some edamame instead. Speaker 2 (21:59): Do you have it in your freezer? Speaker 1 (22:01): No, I don't think so, but I should, it's a good idea. Speaker 2 (22:05): It is, and it's fun. Well I always get excited when I go to a bar and they have edamame, because that'slike the perfect ... for me it's the perfect bar food. You don't feel guilty. All right, you're giving me thatlook. All right, one other thing is yogurt that you want to watch. A five ounce yogurt, a fruit flavoredyogurt, can contain 22 grams of sugar. And it's that fruit on the bottom, guys, you've got to watch.You're better off putting your own fruit in there.Speaker 1 (22:31):All that added crap in it.Speaker 2 (22:33):Yeah, because it's like a jam almost.Speaker 1 (22:34):Yeah, and it's processed.Speaker 2 (22:34):It is processed, right.Speaker 1 (22:35):What is that fruclose, right? What is that stuff? I don't know.Speaker 2 (22:43):Fructose?Speaker 1 (22:43):Fructose? No, that's not what I'm looking for.Speaker 2 (22:45):Sucralose?Speaker 1 (22:46):Yeah, that's what I was looking for. That's crappy, right?Speaker 2 (22:49):Yeah, that's bad.Speaker 1 (22:49):Yeah, that's really bad. And that's the fake stuff?Speaker 2 (22:53):That's the fake stuff.Speaker 1 (22:54): But they put that stuff ...Speaker 2 (22:56):It's in a lot of stuff.Speaker 1 (22:56):Yeah, like the syrups and all those syrups and ...Speaker 2 (23:00):Corn syrup.Speaker 1 (23:01):Corn syrup I think they're trying to cut out more and more, right? But it's still in a lot of shit. It's in a lotof food.Speaker 2 (23:08):All right, let me list off the other things. Trail mix, you've got to watch that with the trail mix.Speaker 1 (23:12):Easy to go high portions too with trail mix, because again you're picking, but it has nuts and ...Speaker 2 (23:18):Well that's a good point, because nuts, yeah, they're good for you, they're omega threes and all thatkind ... They're the good fats. But you have to watch your portion sizes on them because they can justblow you away.Speaker 1 (23:30):Right, easily.Speaker 2 (23:31):"Oh, these almonds are good for me." Well, yeah, 11, not 42.Speaker 1 (23:34):Again, I think we talked about it on a previous podcast at some point, but yeah, that's why the big thingof the 100 calorie, having them separated, it might be a little bit more expensive but I know I'm onlyeating 100 calories in that. Because it's very easy to over-consume that, and then you combine that withsugar, which is obviouslySpeaker 2 (23:52):Yeah, they'll have M&Ms or raisins in there Speaker 1 (23:54): Yeah, if you've listened up to this point you know that's not good for you, if you're still with us. But yeah,it's not a good combination. Very, very easy to over-eat and go beyond moderation with that withouteven thinking about it.Speaker 2 (24:08):Yup. And then I just want to leave you with this last fun fact from Reader's Digest here. This is theamount of added sugar the average American eats in a year. So 13 five-pound bags of sugar.Speaker 1 (24:23):Wow.Speaker 2 (24:24):So you know what they look like, right?Speaker 1 (24:26):Of course.Speaker 2 (24:26):13 five-pound bags of sugar that is consumed. The American Heart Association recommends that menconsume no more than 9 teaspoons, which is 36 grams of added sugar per day. And that, my friends, isthe amount of sugar in a Three Musketeers bar.Speaker 1 (24:43):Wow.Speaker 2 (24:43):So if you eat a Three Musketeers bar in a day that's all the sugar you can have, is in one of those bars.And women, no more than six, 24 grams. On average we ingest 19.5 teaspoons, 78 grams, so that's theaverage.Speaker 1 (25:00):So basically, pay attention to your sugar intake. Pay attention.Speaker 2 (25:03):Please, and do the math, do the math.Speaker 1 (25:05):Right, do the math because you can very easily go over, and that could be something that could be lifechanging now. Just like anything else, your health isn't determined by one specific thing, so does cuttingout sugar completely make you a healthy person? No. Does over-consuming sugar regularly make youunhealthy? No. Is that habit unhealthy? Yes. But you've got to make sure that you're paying attention toeverything in your diet. Now, the best way to do that, track. At least for a little bit, track your food. Iknow it's a pain the ass.Speaker 2 (25:40):Yeah, but that gives you a number at the end of the day. I mean, just do it so you see where you're at.Speaker 1 (25:45):Right. If you do it long enough, too, if you bite the bullet long enough, then you get a pretty goodunderstanding of what food looks like, what portion sizes for you look like. And then you can do thatmagical thing of intuitive eating that is a buzz word, but I guess I would say I am an intuitive eater, Idon't know.Speaker 2 (26:09):Yeah, the way you walked into that store.Speaker 1 (26:09):But I don't read labels, in terms of portion size. I know what I'm eating for me. I have a good understandthat that's too big of a portion or that's not enough. At the end of the day, because I've been doing itlong enough, I've tracked enough days, enough months of food to know, it's understanding food. Justlike everything else, it's understanding ... If you start a new job, you've got to learn it and practice it, anddo it over and over and over again until you could do it like the back of your hand.Speaker 1 (26:43):It's the same thing with nutrition and health. I've tracked my food, like I said, for months. Now I don'thave to because it's in my head. I understand it, I can look at ... I know I'm right around ... I'll guaranteeyou, if I tracked my food now without changing a thing in my diet, I would be pretty consistent day inand day out of where I'm falling within my calories and my macros, without even tracking. And that'sjust from doing it and bearing down through the annoying days of tracking.Speaker 2 (27:14):But it is, it's so worth it in the end, just to get a picture.Speaker 1 (27:16):So worth it. Now would you recommend, somebody ... Let's say they are tracking it and they're eatingtoo much sugar, would you recommend substituting that for a fake sugar? Maybe if they have in theircoffee, they have sugar, putting sweet and low in it or whatever?Speaker 2 (27:34):I really don't. I don't like that. Because I think ifSpeaker 1 (27:36):Or diet soda instead of ...Speaker 2 (27:37):Yeah, I don't. I don't think that's a good way to go, I think that's more unhealthy.Speaker 1 (27:41): Yeah, I agree.Speaker 2 (27:41):So what I did to cut sugar out of my coffee is I switched to flavored coffee.Speaker 1 (27:47):Okay.Speaker 2 (27:48):I don't know why.Speaker 1 (27:49):And it works?Speaker 2 (27:51):Yeah. I don't ...Speaker 1 (27:51):Because it gives you the taste without ...Speaker 2 (27:53):Yeah, I guess so, but that's how I got rid of sugar in my coffee, and I have not missed it.Speaker 1 (27:58):I used to be a proponent of fake sugars, I used to be one to say, "Oh, there's no studies that show thatthey're bad for you," or whatever. And really if you look at everything, there's still a lot of unknownabout it. There's a lot of studies for both sides of it.Speaker 2 (28:17):Of course.Speaker 1 (28:20):But my opinion has changed now, my perspective have changed. Because, for one thing, I don't believein putting fake crap in your body. Anything that I can barely pronounce, I'm not the most literate personor whatever, but if I have trouble pronouncing it, I don't want to put it in my body. Especially if you'vegot to make it the size of a very minuscule font that I need a microscope to read that it's on the label.Speaker 2 (28:48):Yeah, they're getting smaller and smaller.Speaker 1 (28:49):Either that or my eyes are getting worse and worse. But I just don't want to be putting that in my body,and I don't recommend people doing that. Now, I have recently seen a study about how the fake sugaractually does create a response in your body like real sugar, and it's actually more addictive because it'sa chemical as opposed to a natural ... Again, that's one of how many thousands of studies being paid forby who that say what?Speaker 2 (29:18):I just don't trust any of that stuff.Speaker 1 (29:20):I don't trust anything, right. I trust what's in front of me. And for me, I've cut out fake sugar. I used todrink diet soda, I don't do that. Maybe every now and then I'll have one, but I don't drink it anymore.Speaker 2 (29:31):Do you prefer diet soda over regular soda?Speaker 1 (29:35):Depends on the soda.Speaker 2 (29:36):I'm surprised that you said that.Speaker 1 (29:37):Well no, I guess not. But I would drink diet soda because I would feel like it's something better, caloriefree.Speaker 2 (29:45):Okay, so that's why you would do that.Speaker 1 (29:46):But I haven't had soda in a long time, so I'd probably ... Actually, that's a lie. I had a birch beer lastweekend, and it was a regular birch beer, not a diet. Because yes ...Speaker 2 (29:56):If you're going to drink it, drink it.Speaker 1 (29:56):It's high in sugar or whatever, but I don't have sugar in my diet very often.Speaker 2 (30:02):When was the last time?Speaker 1 (30:05):And I think I can speak for both of us, I'm not saying just to go out and completely cut out sugar. Sugar isnot the enemy. But being mindful of how much and how much is in all of your food all of the time, and not just, "Oh, well it's in that soda, so I cut out soda, so I'm good." No, it's in a lot of other stuff that youaren't even aware of.Speaker 2 (30:26):Yeah, but I think if there are people listening who are addicted to soda, I think cutting down on thatwould make you feel so much better.Speaker 1 (30:35):Absolutely.Speaker 2 (30:36):I think that would be the quickest change you would feel if you start cutting out soda. Just cutting backand then eventually eliminating it, I think that would be amazing.Speaker 1 (30:43):Absolutely. And you don't understand how much crap is in soda. Right?Speaker 2 (30:46):It takes paint off cars.Speaker 1 (30:48):Yeah, not even just the sugar amount in it, but everything else, all the chemicals in it, and it's tough forpeople to give that up.Speaker 2 (30:56):I know, that's a total addiction. It is.Speaker 1 (30:59):It is. I mean, I guess that's kind of contradicting what I said before, because I think addiction is a harshword, but yeah, I mean it is hard for people to give that up. It does become a physical addiction to apoint. Now, do I think it's fair to compare someone who can't give up drinking three cokes a day tosomeone who's living on the street robbing people to put heroin in their body? I think that's realaddiction. I think if you can't quit drinking soda you're just soft and you don't like the backlash your bodyis going to put you through.Speaker 2 (31:37):I would say it's a tier thing, heroin is up here andSpeaker 1 (31:40):Of course. But nobody, not that I'm aware of, nobody has ever sucked dick for coke, like Coca Cola.Speaker 2 (31:52):Well not that we're aware of. Speaker 1 (31:56):But no, seriously, you don't do extremes.Speaker 2 (32:00):I see your point.Speaker 1 (32:01):You take Coca Cola away from the business man who has it at lunch and dinner, has two cans a day andis "addicted" to that and is obese, you take that away from him, he's not going to, more than likely, goout and rob some place to get a coke, right? I don't think the addiction is to that level. So to me, it's acontrollable addiction. If you can control the urge to rob someone who has something more than you allthe timeSpeaker 2 (32:36):Okay, so say the guy at the desk who drinks his soda, let's say he drinks a little bit more than that, likefive a day. If he comes out of his office because he has no more soda, and you're standing in the way ofhim leaving, what do you think his behavior is going to be like?Speaker 1 (32:50):Oh he's going to be irritated and angry.Speaker 2 (32:54):He's going to pissed. Now is he going to rob you and ... I don't think so, but I think it is going to activate anegative, nastySpeaker 1 (33:02):If he gets to the vending machine and he doesn't have the extra 25 cents in his pocket to make enoughto get a soda out, I don't think he's going to rob me for 25 cents. I think he's going to get in his car anddrive home, or go wherever he wants.Speaker 1 (33:15):I think a heroin addict is buying heroin and he or she is short or whatever and I'm walking by, thatperson is going to rob me to try to get [inaudible 00:33:24] of it. So if you have enough self control notto rob me to fulfill your addiction, you have enough self control to say, "No, I'm not going to drink it."Speaker 2 (33:34):Good point, very good point.Speaker 1 (33:35):So that's just my opinion on it. And I think we make too many excuses for people, and it just comes tothe point of just saying no. Just say no. It sucks, yeah, it might suck, it might feel like ... But that justmeans you're too soft to give into the suck. Or your too soft to deal with the suck.Speaker 2 (33:56): And again, the suck's going to go away. You don't have to go to the hospital for a detox, right?Speaker 1 (34:01):Right, maybe.Speaker 2 (34:03):You may have a headache, you may be cranky.Speaker 1 (34:04):Right, and you might sleep like crap for a while, you might feel like crap for a while, but making thesechanges are so important to not feel like crap later on. And not only not feel like crap, but not live acrappy life later on. And I'll give you, again, another quick story of a microcosm of what this world is like,Vicki is doing home infusion stuff now, so she's a nurse that goes into peoples' homes. And she was at ahome the other day of an obese couple. I think she said they were middle-aged, they weren't old oranything, middle-aged, 50s maybe. And every other word was an excuse about why they couldn'texercise. Now she wasn't even talking about exercise, she was there to give them their meds orwhatever. But they kept bringing it up because obviously they had some sort of self esteem issue, andshe looks like she works out, even though she doesn't very often. But she looks like she's in shape orwhatever. And they had this, obviously, this low self-esteem about it. But she said that they wouldn'ttake a breath talking about all of the different Netflix shows and TV shows that they've seen. So theyhad all the excuses in the world about why they can't get up and exercise, but they know everythingabout every single Netflix show because they just sit there.Speaker 2 (35:26):They just sit there and watch TV.Speaker 1 (35:28):They just sit there and make more excuses for themselves. And she said they're not sick people, shegoes into some people who are sick. Yeah obviously, the one person she was treating was onmedication, but not enough to stop them from being healthy outside of that. So if you have that time towatch all those shows on Netflix or whatever, you can take 30 minutes a day twice a week, three days aweek, four days a week, wherever you've got to start to get it into your habit to make it part of yourhabit. And again, that brings us back to the sugar addiction. It's not an addiction, if you're not willing torob me, or if you're not willing to suck dick for a sodaSpeaker 2 (36:20):Then you're not really that ... Addiction is just not real.Speaker 1 (36:23):Yeah. And I apologize for anybody for using that term, but I couldn't give up the opportunity to say,"Suck dick for coke," and not have it actually mean about coke.Speaker 2 (36:34):Well I think you did put it in a good perspective, you're absolutely right. Because those hard core drugaddicts, that's what they do, you're right. They get down to that level, it's that bad. Speaker 1 (36:42):I watched one of my good friends go through it. I brought him to a rehab home, I put him in a hotelwhen he got out of jail because he had no where else to go and he couldn't go back to the streets. I sawhim do all that. I caught him robbing me, well looking back now, I know it was him, but rob me of a giantthing of some sort of narcotic pills. I don't know, it was in college after one of my surgeries. After myelbow surgery or my knee surgery, a huge thing, like 20 or 30 Percocets or Oxys or whatever and theywent missing. And I accused him at the time, he said, "No, no, no." Five years later, I'm driving him to arehab facility, so it obviously was him. So I've seen real addiction, I've seen how it affects someone who Iwas very close with, he was one of my best friends. And thankfully, knock on wood, he's done somethingwith his life now, he cleaned himself up, he's doing really well.Speaker 2 (37:41):Yeah, he's doing good right?Speaker 1 (37:41):But that's addiction. And that is what we need to start realizing as people is that we're in control ofeverything we do. Do we want to continue making excuses to be comfortable until you're older. So[inaudible 00:38:01]. Another story, I was at the mall another day with Jimmy, it was a whiffle balltournament we play in. It sounds cheesy, it sounds funny, but I think we had 31 playing this year, 31men playing whiffle ball on a big farm field with four different fields on it. And basically it was likedrinking and barbecuing, and it's a lot of fun the whole day, and male bonding and all that stuff. But I gotknocked out and I was working ... I didn't make it to the playoffs, I didn't play very well, I had a bad day.Bad outing. But anyway, this show isn't about my athletic performance, all right? Thanks for taking itthere.Speaker 1 (38:42):When I was knocked out and watching Jimmy play in the play-offs, I was sitting next to one of the guys Iwas playing with who also got knocked out. Probably was late 40s, typical big gut. And I was actuallymaking fun of him when we were playing against him, calling him diabetic and stuff like that, and he hada pouch here where he kept his phone, it wasn't a diabetic, but it just looked diabetic. But he was fromStaten Island or Long Island, New York, there was a lot of ball-busting going on. So I hit a ball and hecouldn't get to it, I was making fun of him. He had the typical big gut of a diabetic. So we were talkingabout COVID, of course, because everyone's still talking about that and the vaccine. And he said how hegot the vaccine because he's high risk. And I'm like, "Yeah great, people who are high risk should get it."And he's like, "Yeah, I'm diabetic." But he's sitting there drinking a beer with his sleeveless shirt and hisfat just pouring out. And I'm just like, "Yeah, the vaccine's going to help you." You're a diabetic bychoice. You haven't made any changes at all, obviously, in your lifestyle.Speaker 2 (39:55):No, take the mediation, right? Why not?Speaker 1 (39:57):So I don't even remember why I got on that story, but it's a lifestyle choice.Speaker 2 (40:05): Well he's choosing. He's choosing to be a diabetic.Speaker 1 (40:12):He's choosing to be ... Right, absolutely.Speaker 2 (40:12):So don't give me your in this high risk. You're not type 1, and you're choosingSpeaker 1 (40:16):Well right, it's very different. If you're born with it, you're born with it. But if you choose, through yourlifestyle, to give yourself a disease that will kill you, that's your choice just like anything else.Speaker 2 (40:31):Yeah, right. There are ways.Speaker 1 (40:31):Just like saying no to that soda, that's your choice. And like we were saying earlier, people are just toosoft. In my opinion anyway, people are too soft. To me, people are coddled, they coddle themselves,they make excuses for themselves, because it is hard toSpeaker 2 (40:52):Well nothing easy is worth having. Is that what the saying is?Speaker 1 (40:55):Yeah, something like that, yeah.Speaker 2 (40:55):Yeah, it sucks, but the end result is worth it, right? If it's not then I think you've got some mental issuesand you're okay living your life like this, you're okay beingSpeaker 1 (41:03):But it also sucks to be 60 and with a ton of different health issues and not being able to live the rest ofyour life in a way that you want to. That sucks probably a lot more than getting the shakes from thatsoda, or not having the soda. Which you don't actually get the shakes from, unless you're someonewho's consuming that much sugar.Speaker 2 (41:27):That's a whole nother thing.Speaker 1 (41:28):And then you've got to go talk to a psychiatrist.Speaker 2 (41:30): That's a whole different issue. Yeah, people got to make choices. It's not easy, but it's worth it.Speaker 1 (41:40):No, exactly. And I guess to wrap all this up, don't look for the easy way out. That's just ... In a 10,000 footview of this conversation, I know it's mostly about sugar, but don't take the easy way out, don't makeexcuses for yourself. We all know that sugar in excess is bad. So make a decision whether you're going toaccept that in your life or whether you're going to deal with the uncomfortable consequences of nothaving that sugar at that moment, and then an hour for then forgetting about it. So it's the instantgratification versus the long view. And once you stop having it, once you kind of cut it out, you don'treally look for it anyway.Speaker 2 (42:30):No, switch to seltzer. You know? If you likeSpeaker 1 (42:32):Try drinking them.Speaker 2 (42:33):Yeah, seltzer's great.Speaker 1 (42:34):I drink water all day, then when I go home I drink seltzer.Speaker 2 (42:37):Flavored?Speaker 1 (42:38):Yeah, I try to get the natural flavored ones that are ... I don't even know, whatever Vicki buys. She doesmost of the shopping.Speaker 2 (42:45):Yeah, I just don't like the lime ones. I find them very bitter.Speaker 1 (42:50):Yeah, I like the lime ones. I don't really discriminate. I like all seltzers. All seltzer lives matter.Speaker 2 (42:57):[inaudible 00:42:57].Speaker 1 (42:58):Oh, client's here? What time is it? Oh yeah. Wow, time flew by.Speaker 2 (43:02): Usually does.Speaker 1 (43:03):All right, well I guess we've got to wrap this up now. But we do appreciate if you've made it this far, wedo appreciate you hanging on listening to us and supporting us all the time. Please share the show asmuch as you can.Speaker 2 (43:18):Yeah, leave some comments.Speaker 1 (43:19):Yeah, leave some comments.Speaker 2 (43:20):If you try anything that we recommend, we'd love to hear about it.Speaker 1 (43:22):Yeah, maybe we should do a Q&A for next week's show. Like maybe put up on our story on Instagram sowe can put a Q&A and see if anyone writes in any questions.Speaker 2 (43:33):Okay, that's a great idea.Speaker 1 (43:34):Look out for that if you listen to this. Do you have a day? Do you want to put it on a day? What day doyou want to do it on?Speaker 2 (43:43):Well let's do it on Monday and Tuesday.Speaker 1 (43:44):All right, Monday and Tuesday?Speaker 2 (43:46):Let's do two days, yeah.Speaker 1 (43:46):All right, Monday and Tuesday so the show comes out on Monday.Speaker 2 (43:49):Right, and then we record Wednesday.Speaker 1 (43:50): Mm-hmm (affirmative). So look at our story on Instagram at Next Generation Training Center. We willbe posting that Q&A up there. So if you have any questions about health, fitness, diet, sugar, mindset, Idon't know. Anything else we're experts in?Speaker 2 (44:06):Everything.Speaker 1 (44:06):We're experts in everything. If you have any questions about anything at all.Speaker 2 (44:10):Relationships, love, partnerships. We're good partners, we've been partners for almost two years Mike.Speaker 1 (44:17):Wow, holy crap, it's only been ... It's almost ... Wow. Oh yeah.Speaker 2 (44:20):Yes, isn't that crazy?Speaker 1 (44:21):Christmas right? Well, January will be two years.Speaker 2 (44:25):Yeah.Speaker 1 (44:28):Well, we hae an anniversary party every year when we take the staff out.Speaker 2 (44:31):But anyway, write in your stuff, we want to hear from you.Speaker 1 (44:35):Yeah please, and thank you guys, we appreciate you.

hello? Hello, this is your host Caroline Schafer. Please help me welcome Robert Radnoti. Robert is a certified master hypnotherapists at Hypnorad by Robert Radnoti. Studied life strategies at Anthony Robbins, master university, and a trainer and consultant for Dr. Joe Dispenza, Neuro Change Solutions, which I am a huge fan of Dr. Joe and his amazing meditation work to change minds and your reality.  And talk about self-healing, Robert also is a senior leader with Tony Robbins,  and he has worked with Marisa Peer. Boy, Tony Robbins, Dr. Joe, Marissa. I still want to pick your brain Robert like for days on end and you are a life coach as well, which makes perfect sense with all of that background under your belt. And now you're the CEO of Radnoti Research Institute.  Let's start with hypnotherapy, always curious to know about how our brains work. Welcome Robert to The Vitality Feed. Well, thank you so much. I'm honored to be here. Well, let's start from the beginning. Tell us how you went from the engineer to a track and field coach at a division one school to a hypnotherapist. That definitely sounds like an entrepreneurial path, if I've ever heard. Well, I think I was thinking about this on my run on the beach today. I'm thinking about what I could provide to your audience. And I think one of the key things is, is managing risk and, you know, some people are risk adverse. Some people are risk tolerant, and depending on really your family and your culture and where you grew up. Pretty much determines or patterns, um, kind of how you feel about those kinds of things. And in my family, my family came from Hungary and they escaped from the Russians and came here and, and then they ended up in Las Vegas. School at UNLB the rebels, they were rebels, they became rebels. And I think I'm kind of rebellion. And I think that that's where it comes from specifically to hypnotherapy. What happened was I was at Pepperdine university, which I thought was my dream job. I, I was always into running, always into organizing. Since I was a little kid. I was a guy that ran around the neighborhood and organized the baseball and football and basketball, depending on the season. And I loved running and wanted to coach people. So I quit my engineering job at Exxon to become first, a high school coach for $2,000 a year. When my then wife wasn't working and we had a big house and two kids, and I just did it.  I was day-trading in the.com run-up and thought that would last forever, but it didn't. But anyway, I did pretty well at thousand Oaks high school, we won a state championship and, we raised a bunch of money. And when we left, we had more national record holders than any school in the nation. And I thought this is going to be easy. I moved on to Pepperdine University. Unfortunately it was a very minimally funded program. And I thought I could change that and all the different ways that I tried didn't work. And finally, I decided I want to beat UCLA. We were a division one program, UCLA and Oregon, and some of the big time schools. And on the 1 0 1 freeway to my home, there's been a sign that I've seen for probably 30, 40 years called HMI hypnotherapy. I had no clue what it really was. And a lot of people that drive through the valley see that sign. And I said, gosh, I wonder if I could hit my ties, my athletes to run faster. And so I went to one of those introductory sessions at HMS. Hypnosis meditation instituted Tarzana, California turns out it's like the world's foremost hypnotherapy school, Dr. Joe Dispenza and graduated from there as did Marisa peer as did many, pretty famous hypnotherapists. It's the, I think the only accredited or at least the first accredited college of hypnotherapy in the. Wow. And so it's not like a workshop. I was traveling quite a bit. So it took me 18 months to do it. What was interesting was that, once I got to the point where I could hypnotize my athletes. We went to a track meet up at San Luis Obispo and the kids knew what I was doing. And I got six brave kids that said they're willing to try to be hypnotized, um, to run faster than it. So we, we did this, we set this up, the whole team was watching and it was so interesting because back then I was using, what's called the arm raising technique. And that's how we put people on hypnosis and it, part of it's building confidence. And what you do is you have the person put their arm. I know you can't see here, but you put your arm on a table. And then I start just talking to them and saying that your arm is filled with helium. And before, you know, you're not even going to be able to stop this, but your arm is going to start to raise and it raises, and it, it takes like five to 15 minutes and the arm will raise until they hit their face. And this is you, do you snap your fingers and you'll say deep sleep and they're out. And literally I've done this a hundred times. I think only once did it not work. It just it's mind blowing to me that it works every time. And so I just hypnotize each of these athletes to run faster, to be more relaxed, to be more confident, et cetera, in their race. And then the next day, all six of them set huge personal records. PRS. We call them in the running world and then on the Monday following my athletic director called me into the office and I thought, oh, this is going to be great. He's finally going to say something good about something that I've done. And he said, I heard what you did on Friday night. And then how the kids ran on Saturday. I'm saying, yeah, it was so cool. And he goes, you know, you can't do that. And I said, what? I mean, I was like, and he said, we're a Christian University. And you were playing God. And I go as soon as he said it, I kind of understood it, but I, I didn't think of it up until that point. I was really buck. The good part was because initially I went to hypnotherapy school specific for My athletes and, or other athletes eventually, you learn how to deal with 146 different issues that people have. And I found that I was able to help people worldwide because essentially my,  internships started the day everything's shut down for the Corona virus pandemic. And so I had to learn this new thing called zoom and hypnotize people over zoom. So I put in a post on my Facebook saying I'm looking for seven brave people, let me practice hypnotherapy with them over zoom. And within a week I had 56 people and I kept saying, yes, I only want to seven, but I said, yes. And literally I had, four to eight clients every day, seven days a week for several months. And it was interesting because by the time I graduated, one of the things they told me is they said you're, you're, you're graduated is that I actually had more clinical hours than anyone in the 54 year history of HMI. Because typically, you did it in the office. We have an office and you get one or two clients a day, three or four or five days. I was doing it seven days a week with up to eight clients. So it was really great and I practiced in practice and it may be a better hypnotherapists in fact, sort of one of my claims that I really like is that I was working with this cancer patient in Australia and on her third or fourth session. Her dog was running around her chair, where she needed to be, in a peaceful, calm place. And I said, put that dog up on your chest. I'm going to hypnotize your dog to stop barking. She said, you can do that. And I said, sure, not really knowing, but while she's running around getting the dog, I Googled, how do you hypnotize a dog? And it turns the world's foremost, cat and dog hitting a therapist. Is one of the instructors at HMI. And so I read a script, Princeton, her dog was sitting on her chest . I hypnotized her and the dog. And the next day she did a testimonial on her Facebook saying how excited she is that Princeton isn't barking at all thanks to Robert Radnoti and the hypnosis he did yesterday. Amazing stories. gosh,  I think one of the coolest parts about that is that you taught those individuals on your team, the power of opening your mind. And I think that is the best gift that you gave them. Was that. They came, they're willing to try something new and it proved to work for them. And then they're going to take that away and use that concept in probably a million things for the rest of their life. So as you probably know, in sport, you know, we use a lot of visualization techniques in training. It was consistent with everything. I had been teaching all along and have been since I, I started coaching. So it was just a little bit of a stretch and actually a big stretch because some people are afraid of hypnotherapy. They think that, you know, I'm going to make them run around like a chicken with its head cut off or quack like a doctor or something like that. And that's not what hypnotherapy is. That's stage hypnosis. Okay. And that's very different and hypnotherapy, we have a code of ethics and we are bound to help the client get what they want. So it's not even what I want. I'm just a facilitator. So, you know, in the first part of a session with someone, I just interview them and ask them, what do they really, really want? And then all hypnosis is, is putting people into a state. Where they're the most open to suggestions and the suggestions actually come from the client. So when I'm interviewing somebody, I'm writing down on my paper, here's what they want. And exact words to suggest into the subconscious. And it's become such a powerful thing because by the time we're in our mid thirties, 95% of all our thoughts, behaviors, habits, patterns, attitudes, feelings, and emotions are programmed into our body. They're in subconscious. And so that's why change is so difficult. And many of these, the gurus that you talked about, they have various processes to get into the subconscious. Just allow people to go in that hypnotic state, dropping them from the beta brainwave frequency that they're in during the normal course of the day, dropping them to alpha where their internal environment becomes more important. And then into theta where they're in this light sleep, where the door between the conscious and unconscious mind is open. And that's where we can make some suggestions to serve people. That is so good. I do know I do meditate in the morning first thing as soon as I open my eyes, I go get my phone and I plug in and I meditate right away because I in that in the alpha stage. And that is much better timing to do then than getting up for an hour and then trying to meditate.   I was going to ask you if you could explain what hypnotherapy is. So you're in the theta state. You're in the theta state. And when you're first born, all your mind knows is fight or flight but as you're growing up between birth and about eight years old, literally every experience you have gets stored in your subconscious. So you have thousands of positive experiences, thousands of negative experiences, but they're all stored there. And many of them, if not most of them, we don't even remember somewhere around eight years old you develop, what's called the critical mind or the analytical mind. And that's a piece of the mind that now starts to filter and decide. From the experiences or the learnings, is that really true? Do I want to store it in my subconscious? And the best example I have of that is, is Santa Claus.  Did you believe in Santa Claus at one point. We all did. Right? And then somewhere around eight years old, a parent, a neighborhood kid, someone said, now, hold it. Do you think this fat guy with a white beard really makes presents for every kid in the world with some elves. And your analytical mind that started to develop. Huh? I no longer believe that. Right. That happens around that eight years old or so. And so between eight and about 12 years old, 13 or so,  you develop your conscious mind, your analytical mind, your subconscious mind, and a lot of the things that we have program or kind of set. And so hypnosis allows us to drop below and through that critical mind and the subconscious, and then we can either strengthen a positive experience or we can weaken lesson or even eliminate a negative experience, or we can create a whole new experience because the mind doesn't know whether it's real or not. And a real good example is as I mentioned, my parents were from Hungary in growing up my sister and I, we always wanted to have a dog and my dad never wanted to have a dog. We couldn't understand everyone in the neighborhood. I had a dog, but he just said, I like dogs. I don't want it. And it was many years later, we were at a family reunion in Budapest and there's dogs running all over the place and I'm just kind of remarked, Hey, what's the deal with all the dogs. We weren't allowed to have dogs. And she goes, well, I know why. And everyone turned to her to say, well, why? And she said, when your dad was five years old, he was bitten by a dog and he didn't remember it. But it made sense. It was programmed in his subconscious because he couldn't explain why he didn't like dogs. He was a very loving, caring person that you would think would really like dogs, but he was afraid of. And so, you know, it, we all have these things and I'm guessing that you, I all your audience, we probably done somethings in our life, maybe every day, where we go. I wonder why I did that. And it's because of things in our subconscious that we just don't even know about. And that's why hypnotherapy can be so powerful because we can go in and we can discover some of those things, or we can create new things to serve you. And that's what the, the profession, the business, the mission is all about is serving people, helping them become more vital in their lives, live rad and love contagiously. That's kind of like my thing. It is just so fulfilling to be able to do this. That's why I'm excited to, to come on here  and share this message. And I'm so glad you did. Cause I find this fascinating. I really do. And I know about you are your experiences. I always tell people, make sure you're asking yourself. Why, why do you do things? Because it is important to think about, is it really what I believe or is it really what I've been told to believe? That is so true. Um, this is a crazy idea,  I know we had talked about this and I think it's really cool about maybe doing a general session for our audience and hypnotherapy. Can we do that? We can do that. I had one other thought as you were speaking, if I could just share this. This is kind of interesting to me. And this comes from Dr. Joe Dispenza. one of the things that we teach in this program, so now I'm teaching his, his program it's called,  Change Your Mind, Create New Results. And it's based on his book, Breaking The Habit Of Being Yourself. We have a two day class that we teach. Now there's about a hundred or so of us worldwide that are teaching this program. But one of the hallmarks from this is, is that your personality, creates your personal reality or your life and your personality consists of how you think, how you act and how you feel. And that most people want to change their personal reality or their life as the same personality. And it simply doesn't work in order to make a change. If you want a different life, you have to change. You have to become someone different. And so what you just said, I'm asking the question, why that's an important thing, because it's becoming metacognitive thinking about the thoughts that you have, because what happens is we're in a program if 95% of every thought every action, every feeling is programmed into it. We're doing things unconsciously. And so we have a familiar path and we're not making any changes because we think 60 to 70,000 thoughts per day. And 90% of them are the exact same thoughts we had the day before. And so if we're having the same thoughts, those thoughts are creating the same choice. And those same choices then lead to the same behaviors. Those same behaviors create the same experiences and the same experiences produce the same feelings and emotions, and they then influence the same things thing. And we keep doing the same thing over and over again. And our life doesn't change. Because we haven't changed. And our biology, our neurochemistry, our neurocircuitry, our hormones and even our gene expression stay the same because we are the same. For people to understand is they've got to change if they want to change. Right. And it's very difficult for most people. It's that uncertainty muscle that Tony Robins I know talks about.  I loved his analogy with marriages and how people get divorced and they get remarried and that doesn't work out and it's because they haven't changed. It's not the marriage. It's that you're just taking the same person that didn't function well in a marriage prior and sticking them into another marriage that's not going to work well either.   What I got out of Tony Robbins around relationships and a lot of different areas. Not only do you not change, but we literally don't know the strategies on how to have a successful relationship or how to have a successful business or how to a lot of different things.  We weren't programmed or we didn't learn how to have a relationship. Right. You know, we have parents and they're doing the best they can, you know, in our generations, they kind of stuck together a lot of times for the kids, but were they really loving? Do we have many examples of these great loving relationships? We don't. I've been married 40 years. What are you happy? There's a big difference between being married for 40 years of being happily married. That's one of the things I think that I take from Tony is he's got brilliant strategies every aspect of life, whether it's relationships, emotions, time management, your purpose, finances, your contribution, spiritual life, there are strategy. So let's get back to our hypnotherapy session for everybody out there, listening. Okay. So here's what, there's something really, really super important in. Everyone's got to agree to, this is you cannot participate in this. If you are driving or you are doing something that if we set you into or put you in a state of hypnosis, that you could be a danger to yourself or to somebody. You have to be in a place where you're by yourself undisturbed. So you can't have kids running around, you can't have dogs running around, you can't have spouses running around nothing. You have to do this when you're in a quiet place. Ideally you're in a chair that kind of reclines back a little bit where your head is supported and it's quiet. So if someone's listening in any of those kinds of situations, they should just stop this. If they'd like to do this, they can then start it back when they're in that situation, is that agreement for everyone? So everyone, that's a disclaimer, so please, please be in a safe location before you try to do this hypnotherapy. We want to keep everybody safe and we want it to work well for you, so do it in a safe setting. That there'll be no injuries. Okay. And are you going to do it, Caroline? Absolutely. Okay. So get yourself in a place where you can sit back and you're undisturbed. All right. So what I'd like everyone to do is go ahead and close your eyes. And If you're wearing glasses, go ahead and take your glasses off. just start with three deep breaths, deep cleansing breaths.   Three deep breaths, cleansing breaths, breathing out any pressure or tension that might be in your body. And breathing in the feelings of peace and serenity and tranquility, breathing in thankfulness and gratefulness, breathing in through the heart, joy and happiness and freedom. Letting any tension in your body then kind of do a body scan. And if there's any pressure, tension, anywhere in your body, just allow that to sort of gravity feed and go out through your toes and breathe in the feeling of love and bliss and ecstasy. And just allow yourself to now call on your beautiful, creative, imaginative, amazing mind, and say, I'm open to this experience. I want to create some amazing images and visualizations as we go forward. And this is with my permission and for the purposes of hypnosis education only that we do. And so what I want you to do is imagine a white beam of light coming down from the heavens above and entering the crown of your head and flowing through your whole body, calming, relaxing, and allowing any tension in your body to just dissipate and flow out of your. And as this beam of light comes and enters the crown of your head, I want you to now just command your face to relax a little bit more, your forehead, your cheekbones, and your jaw. Just relax your whole face and moving downwards. Those little tiny neck muscle. Well then to relax this white beam of light, as it comes to the base of your neck, it splits into three, two pieces going to your arms and one into your body and the light, the goes, your arms, feel your shoulder, relax a little bit more relaxing, your biceps and triceps. And it flows through your forearms and into your hands and out through your fingertips. And you wiggle your fingertips a little bit, just visualize that light beam by continually flowing in through your head and out through your arms and through your fingertips. And now come back to the base of your neck and feel that larger beam of light go into your body, cavity and swirl around and calm down and relax your heart. Slowing down your heart rate into your lungs and slowing your breathing. Swirling around your spine and all those beautiful vital organs, your stomach and intestines and kidneys and everything in there. Just relaxing as you go further and further into a calm, peaceful place. The beam of light now goes down past your butt muscles, your gluteus Maximus, minimus, relaxing those muscles and into your legs. As you relax your hamstrings and thigh. Lycos, pastor knees relaxing. Now your calves and your shins and into your feet and out through your toes, maybe wiggling your toes and all the pressure and tension in your body, in your life in your day. At least for this session, just fade away. As you go into a very peaceful place. Now, what I want you to do from here is I want you to visualize or imagine yourself on a beach, actually on a wooden, um, landing where there's 20 steps, 20 wooden steps down to the beach, down to the same. And you're on this platform is very safe. There's handrails there, you feel safe, but it's a beautiful, beautiful day and beautiful as whatever your creative imaginative mind wants to create. And you can create the beach scene down in front of you. And it could be that a beach scene of California or of the east coast, maybe with those darker sands or toward the south, toward the Caribbean where they've got the white Sandy beach. Or maybe in Hawaii, the lava fields that dark, dark sands, or maybe even in the baldies where they've got the pink sands, whatever you want your imagination to create, go ahead and allow it to be created and allow there to be vegetation and Palm trees and eye biscuits and whatever pops into your imagination. Just allow it to be as you stand on this wooden platform above the sand. Feeling very safe, feeling, very calm. And as you look down to the beach, to the sand at the base of the stairs, you see a person down there, you can't quite make out who it is, but they look familiar to you. And you're drawn to them in a moment. We're going to walk down the steps to meet that person. But for right now, I want you to bring yourself back up to this platform and I want you to. Place yourself in your imagination, in the body of you. So you can't see your soul wholesale because you're inside yourself. So if you look down, you might see your thighs and maybe your feet, but you can't see your face because you're inside your body. And I want you to place your left hand on the left railing. And I want you to put your left foot. Down this step, number 20, we're going to walk down together, your right foot to step number 19, your left 18, your right to 17. You're left to 16. And so on 15, 14, 13, 12, 11. Ten going further into your subconscious 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 and Deep sleep. And just allow yourself to go to the optimum place. In your subconscious, where you're the most open to suggestions, suggestions to serve you, to benefit you. And this is for the purposes of hypnosis only. And with your permission each and every time I say deep sleep and snap, my fingers, you'll go further into your subconscious where we can make some suggestions this for acute. And so now, I want you to feel the sand below your feet, your shoeless feel the sand between your toes. You're down on the beach down, maybe about 20 feet or so away from the water, but the person that you sort of recognize from the top comes now in front of. And without speaking word, either one of you, they come into view and it's you of your future and you have, your future is smiling and you look at him or her left eye to left eye because the left eye connects to the right side of the brain, your emotional side of the brain. And you want a good connection. And you can feel the love that you have for each other, because this is you have your future looking at you. It's an emotional experience. And you want a good connection And you can feel the love that you have for each other, because this is you have your future looking at you And the, you have your future finally starts to speak and says to you, I have been waiting for this day ups and the downs, the challenges and the joy. And I'm here to tell you the next phase of your life. is going to become truly amazing, truly remarkable as you grow into the man or woman that you were designed and destined to be my God or the universe or the source or higher power, whatever you believe in spiritually, the next phase of your life is going to be truly amazing. And I'm here to give you a message and this is the most important message that you can receive today. The message to you is that you are worthy for what's coming the next phase of your life, that you are more than enough that you deserve the successes coming your way. In every aspect of your life, it's among the most important things to know deep in your subconscious is that you are worthy. You are more than enough. You are loving, lovable, and loved. Sure. You like every other human as flaws has made mistakes because you are human. And I want you to remember this new word possibly for you. And it's flawsome, you are awesome with all the flaws that you have because too, oftentimes we make a mistake or we have a flaw and we beat ourselves up. We're no longer going to do that. Every time that happens. We're just going to simply say stop. And reflect back on this moment where you understand that every human being is flawsome. Every human being makes mistakes. Every human being is worthy and more than enough, and these deserving and loving, lovable, and loved. Once we remember that. Once we integrate this into every cell within your body, the magic, the mystical, the unexplained begins to happen in your life. And as you have the future talking to you of the present, I'm here to tell you I'm here to suggest into your subconscious how important this truly is. And I want you to reflect on this throughout the day and days. And I want you to repeat any time you question yourself, anytime you need to stop. I want you to tell yourself the short ancient, Hawaiian tribe, whole Pono Pono, short prayer. Just saying it to yourself and repeat this with me now. I love you. Thank you to your subconscious. I love you. Thank you to your inner child. I love you. Thank you. I love you. Thank you. I love. Thank you with that. You have your future goes quiet. You know, eventually you go to hug each other and as you pull the, you have your future into you, they meld into your body. You pull them into you because after all that you have your future is you. The worthy, the loving, the deserving, the flawsome you the future is you, right? You pull that all into you. It feels good. It feels loving. It feels right. It feels blissful. It feels freedom. It feels joy and happiness, peace and joy and tranquility. You're grateful. And with that, we're going to bring you out of the state of hypnosis by counting you out from zero to five and at five you'll come eyes wide open, but at zero, I want you to look out at this beach scene that you've created. Right now, We're going to bring you out of hypnosis again by counting you out. And it one, I want you to know that we've made some suggestions into your subconscious to serve you, to benefit you that are very, very powerful and it to have faith in yourself, trust in yourself. Believe in yourself. You've got this that you have programmed into every cell in your body, the feelings and emotions. You've just experienced from the, you have your future and it three, fill yourself up with hope and excitement anticipation for this next phase of your life. Now at four become aware that you're in your room on a chair and a couch on a bed and start to come back, come back and at five eyes wide, open 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 eyes wide open and come back. And if everyone fell asleep, take yours out. How awesome. That's just the first part of it. Usually I take people down to the beach and there's an experience there. And then we come back, we sit down, there's another experience there, but I'm watching the time so I wanted to kind of close things up it was awesome. Thank you so much for doing that. That was really neat. I have one little last question. It's my signature question, if you could eliminate one thing in this world, what would it be and why Robert eliminate one thing in the world? Oh gosh. There's so many things right now that, uh, eliminate aren't there. Um, I would eliminate the negative fixed mindset that so many people have so that more people could be open to people like myself, to people like you, you know, we are creating an army of people that really want to change the world. Yes that want to feel the world with love and joy and happiness and create the kind of environment and lifestyle and culture that we're proud of. That we're honored to be part of that we can grow from and live in a state of bliss and joy and happiness and all those beautiful feelings that, uh, that we want that. I love that. And I probably would answer that question very similar, because I think when you go to these kinds of events that you partake in all the time, a lot of people go there with a fixed mindset and then they leave pretty much the same way. And I'm like, no, that's what this is all about. You come here to open yourself up to new ideas and leave a different person so that you can grow. Where can our listeners connect with. I've got a website, Robertradnoti.com. Um, another website, radnotihypnosis. I'm on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, all those kinds of things.  thank you so much, Robert, for being with us today, this was a really cool experience. Something very different I've never done before. And I really appreciate your time today and investing with our audience and sharing your gifts. So thank you very much. 

What you'll learn in this episode: The characteristics that define contemporary American jewelry What narrative art jewelry is, and why it was so prevalent in the 1960s and 70s What defines American counterculture, and why so many 60s and 70s jewelers were a part of it Who the most notable American jewelry artists are and why we need to capture their stories How Susan and Cindi developed their book, and why they hope other people will build on their research About Susan Cummins Susan Cummins has been involved in numerous ways in the visual arts world over the last 35 years, from working in a pottery studio, doing street fairs, running a retail shop called the Firework in Mill Valley and developing the Susan Cummins Gallery into a nationally recognized venue for regional art and contemporary art jewelry. Now she spends most of her time working with a private family foundation called Rotasa and as a board member of both Art Jewelry Forum and California College of the Arts. About Cindi Strauss Cindi Strauss is the Sara and Bill Morgan Curator of Decorative Arts, Craft, and Design and Assistant Director, Programming at the Museum of Fine Arts, Houston (MFAH). She received her BA with honors in art history from Hamilton College and her MA in the history of decorative arts from the Cooper-Hewitt/Parsons School of Design. At the MFAH, Cindi is responsible for the acquisition, research, publication, and exhibition of post-1900 decorative arts, design, and craft. Jewelry is a mainstay of Cindi's curatorial practice. In addition to regularly curating permanent collection installations that include contemporary jewelry from the museum's collection, she has organized several exhibitions that are either devoted solely to jewelry or include jewelry in them. These include: Beyond Ornament: Contemporary Jewelry from the Helen Williams Drutt Collection (2003–2004); Ornament as Art: Avant-Garde Jewelry from the Helen Williams Drutt Collection (2007); Liquid Lines: Exploring the Language of Contemporary Metal (2011); and Beyond Craft: Decorative Arts from the Leatrice S. and Melvin B. Eagle Collection (2014). Cindi has authored or contributed to catalogs and journals on jewelry, craft, and design topics, and has been a frequent lecturer at museums nationwide. She also serves on the editorial advisory committee for Metalsmith magazine. Additional Resources:  Museum of Fine Arts Houston Art Jewelry Forum  Photos: Police State Badge 1969/ 2007 sterling silver, 14k gold 2 7/8 x 2 15/16 x 3 15/16 inches Museum of Arts and Design, New York City, 2012.20 Diane Kuhn, 2012 PHOTO: John Bigelow Taylor, 2008 Portrait of William Clark in a bubble_2 1971                        photographer: Unknown Necklace for the American Taxpayer 1971 Brass with silver chain  17 " long (for the chain)  and 6.25 x 1.25 " wide for the hanging brass pendant. Collection unknown Dad's Payday 1968 sterling, photograph, fabric, found object 4 ½ x 4 x ¼ inches Merrily Tompkins Estate, Ellensburg Photo: Lynn Thompson Title: "Slow Boat" Pendant (Portrait of Ken Cory) Date: 1976 Medium: Enamel, sterling silver, wood, copper, brass, painted stone, pencil, ballpoint pen spring, waxed lacing, Tiger Balm tin, domino Dimensions: 16 3/4 × 4 1/8 × 1 in. (42.5 × 10.4 × 2.5 cm) Helen Williams Drutt Family Collection, USA Snatch Purse 1975 Copper, Enamel, Leather, Beaver Fur, Ermine Tails, Coin Purse 4 ½ x 4 x 3/8” Merrily Tompkins Estate, Ellensburg The Good Guys 1966 Walnut, steel, copper, plastic, sterling silver, found objects 101.6 mm diameter Museum of Arts and Design, NYC, 1977.2.102'                        PHOTO: John Bigelow Taylor, 2008 Fetish Pendant 1966 wood, brass, copper, glass, steel, paper, silver 3 ½ x 3 ½ x 5/8 inches Detroit Institute of Art, Founders Society Purchase with funds from the Modern Decorative Arts Group, Andrew L. and Gayle Shaw Camden Contemporary and Decorative Arts Fund, Jean Sosin, Dr. and Mrs. Roger S. Robinson, Mr. and Mrs. Marvin Danto, Dorothy and Byron Gerson, and Dr. and Mrs. Robert J. Miller / Bridgeman Images November 22, 1963 12:30 p.m. 1967 copper, silver, brass, gold leaf, newspaper photo, walnut, velvet, glass 6 ¼ x 5 x 7/8 inches Smithsonian American Art Museum, Gift of Rose Mary Wadman, 1991.57.1 Front and back covers Pages from the book Transcript: What makes American jewelry American? As Susan Cummins and Cindi Strauss discovered while researching their book, In Flux: American Jewelry and the Counterculture, contemporary American jewelry isn't defined by style or materials, but by an attitude of independence and rebellion. Susan, who founded Art Jewelry Forum, and Cindi, who is Curator of Decorative Arts, Crafts and Design at the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about what it was like to interview some of the most influential American artists; why they hope their book will inspire additional research in this field; and why narrative jewelry artists were part of the counterculture, even if they didn't consider themselves to be. Read the episode transcript here.  Sharon: Definitely, it's a history book, but it's not, because you really do get that flavor for who they are or what they were passionate about or what they were trying to express. I'm just curious; how did you distill all of this into counterculture? Was that something that you decided in a brainstorm? You could have come up with a lot of different things. Cindi: I'm going to let Susan to take that, because—and I admit this freely—I had a very specific idea of what the counterculture was and how people slotted into that. Through Susan and Damian, my understanding of the counterculture was broadened in such an incredible way. They really pushed me to open up my mindset and think about it in many different, layered ways, and I have benefited from that dramatically. So, Susan led that. Susan, I'll turn it over to you. Susan: O.K., and I'll try and answer. We had decided to focus on the 60s and 70s and limit it to that time period. That was the counterculture time period, and as I said before, there are so many in the craft world, which I was participating in during that time, that reflect the sensibilities of the counterculture. As we were interviewing these people, what was really interesting is that many of them didn't necessarily think of themselves of part of the counterculture. They thought of themselves as hardworking jewelers that couldn't be part of the counterculture because that was the dropout, don't do anything, take drugs part of the world. But that wasn't really the counterculture.  The counterculture was especially young people who were opposed to the way that people were living their lives. That got really defined in the 50s, which was a very austere, go to work, make money, buy a refrigerator, get a house and even if it was killing you, do this kind of life. They said, “We don't want that. We want a life that feels meaningful to us, that has real value.” In all kinds of different ways, that was what the counterculture consisted of: thinking in a different way about how life could be for us, something that's meaningful, something that you love doing, something that has some consideration of ecology and equal rights and all of the counterwar attitudes reflected in it. That was really what people wanted to do. The counterculture is big and broad.  A lot of people who thought, for example, that Fred Woell was a Boy Scout. If you asked Fred or you saw his papers or you asked his wife, “What kind of car did Fred drive?” A VW van. What kind of food did he eat? Natural foods. Did he build himself a house? Yes, he did, with solar panels on it. He was a counterculture guy. He just looked like a Boy Scout. A lot of the things you learn in the Boy Scouts were actually part of the counterculture, too, the survival skills and all of that. It's a funny thing to say, but I think in the process of writing this book, we convinced a lot of the jewelers we interviewed that they were part of the counterculture even though they hadn't realized it themselves either. Sharon: That's interesting. Did you enter this process thinking that these people were part of the counterculture, or was that something that came to you as put everything together? Susan: I think it was kind of there from the beginning, but not really. I think we discovered it along the way. In fact, I don't think we were thinking about having the word counterculture in the title. I think for a long time we thought it would be “American Jewelry in the 60s and 70s.” I think it was a provocative idea to put counterculture in the title. It might be that it was a bad idea because, as Cindi said, a lot of people have a narrow point of view as to what the counterculture is, but I hope that if anybody decides to pick up the book, they can find a much broader definition, which I think is the real definition. To limit it is not fair to the expression. Sharon: I think the book does broaden the definition. Before reading the book or looking at the book, I entered into it thinking of Sausalito. I grew up on the West Coast, so to me, the counterculture was Sausalito. My family and I drove through there once when I was a young person, so that was the counterculture, or Berkeley was the counterculture. I Googled the word counterculture, and it's interesting because it goes through all different periods of history that were counterculture. It wasn't just the 60s and 70s. Who did you feel it was wrenching to leave out of the book when you had make some decisions? Cindi: Before I would answer that specifically, to give a little more context, there were a number of jewelry artists who were personally active in all the ways we were highlighting in this book, but their jewelry itself didn't reflect that. We had long debates about how to deal with that. Ultimately, for better or for worse, it came down to the fact that at the end of the day, the book was about the jewelry. It was rooted in the actual works of art. There were artists whose jewelry did not reflect their personal lives. With those artists, we were able to include them in the book in terms of quotes and information that helped set the stage and provide information, whether it was about things from their own lives, if they were professors, what was in their program, but their jewelry wasn't necessarily featured. I'm thinking of someone like Eleanor Moty, who was incredibly helpful in terms of the interview that Susan did and being a sounding board, but her jewelry didn't make it into the book pictorially. There were others who were also like that.  I think I wouldn't necessarily call it gut-wrenching, but it was something we struggled with over a period of time, because these were artists who were very active; they were active in shows; they were teaching; they were going to Summervale; they were going to SNAG, some of them, some of them not. For me, Wayne Coulter is probably the big regret. I did an extensive interview with Wayne and his wife, Jan Brooks, and it was a great interview. He was very involved with Summervale, and a lot of his jewelry would have fit pictorially in the book, but we were never quite able to get the images and the materials we needed to include the jewelry. He's included, as is Jan, in terms of quotes and things like that. For me, that would be one that I regret. Sharon: This is not to say anybody's second tier. I don't mean that. Cindi: Oh no, not at all. Sometimes there are practicalities. This is a time when a lot of the artists don't even know, necessarily, where their jewelry from the late 60s or early 70s resides. Maybe they had slides of it, but those slides may not exist, or they may have been completely discolored. There were practical issues that made certain pieces and/or certain artists—we were unable to go as far as we wanted to. Susan, what do you think? Susan: Yeah, I completely agree with all that. I would say that we interviewed a lot of people that didn't get in the book. There was a lot of jewelry that started up right at the very end of the 70s and went into the 80s. We squeaked in a couple of those people, but what you have to think about is that we're showing you or talking about examples of people in various phases. Some people were very political. Some people weren't so political in their work necessarily, but they lived a counterculture lifestyle and participated in counterculture activities, and it shows up in their jewelry but not as strongly as in others. We tried to give a mix of examples of the things we were talking about, but as Cindi said, there were lots of people we interviewed that never showed up in the book. We must have interviewed Laurie Hall, for example, about three times. Her work isn't in the book, but Damian went on to write about her. That book will be coming out in the fall. We acquired an awful lot of information that didn't ever get in the book and people we interviewed that didn't get in the book. You just have to go with the most obvious choices at a certain point and think of them as examples of other people that you could have included, but you didn't. Maybe some people were upset by that, but you do have to make some decisions. As Cindi said, there are certain practical limitations. Sharon: I think I gave a birthday party when I was 13, and I was so traumatized by having to make decisions about the guest list. I always wonder about it, if you make decisions about who to put in and who to leave out. Do you know the name of the book about Laurie Hall? What's it called? Susan: It's called North by Northwest: The Stories of Laurie Hall. Or maybe The Jewelry of Laurie Hall. Sharon: That leads into my next question. Is there going to be a part two or an addition to the book you just wrote, In Flux? There's so much more material. Susan: Definitely, there's more material. Somebody needs to look at African-American jewelers. We barely got to include some aspects of that. Native American jewelers, too, have a whole history that we didn't really cover at all. These things are whole topics unto themselves, really. We hope someone will take up the mantle and find out more about that. There's a huge amount of continuing research. We don't have any plans to do that, so anybody listening can definitely take it up. Go for it. It's up to you. Sharon: It sounds like a great PhD project. Cindi: Yeah, it can be a PhD thesis. There could be a series of articles. It doesn't have to be a big book about something. You could do all whole symposium based on this topic. You started off with a question about our jewelry journey. I think this is and will be, for all of us, an ongoing journey. Susan and Damian have written this book on Laurie Hall. There will be other threads that, either collectively or individually, we'll want to take up in continuing our own journey off of this book, areas that piqued our interest and we'll go from there. As Susan said, we're hoping people will pick up the mantle. One of the things we learned through this process, and it's probably a lesson that should have been obvious to us beforehand, but the field of American jewelry is a young field. For most of its history, there have been dominant narratives. I'm part of that group of people who have helped with those dominant narratives. As a field evolves, you lay down the baseline, then you focus on individual artists, then you go back and start to layer in additional histories in a way that you can actually understand the full field. A lot of the artists we included in In Flux worked on the outskirts of what was previously the dominant narrative. I think as we proved, that doesn't make their work any less significant, influential, etc. from artists who were part of the dominant narrative. It's a phenomenal way for the field to continue to grow. I hope that as more institutions of all types focus on contemporary jewelry, it will engender additional layers of that story which will continue to propel the field forward. Sharon: Cindi, I noticed that when you look the Museum of Fine Arts, Houston website, you've been involved in a lot of online programming and symposia and things I didn't realize. I'm wondering when you're going to have a symposium on this subject. Cindi: It would be terrific. Up to this point, Susan and I have been invited to give talks. We did one with Craft in America last fall. We did with MAD. We've been invited on your jewelry podcast. I'm also going to be speaking for the Seattle Metals Guild Symposium next month. I would love to do a symposium. For me, in order to do a symposium right, it's not just about getting speakers together, which you can do virtually, but it's really about them coming together and having that in-person experience where you can have breakout sessions; you have the conversations in the hallways, all of those kinds of things. I would absolutely love to do that when it's safe to do it, which is not to say that—there are no current plans. I think our virtual talks have been fantastic, but it would be great to gather the tribe, so to speak, to gather people we interviewed for this book, to gather people who are interested and to share a day or two together to dive into this. I hope that can happen. Certainly, the door is open to it. I just think right now we're still figuring out what we can do in person and what we can't. Susan: I know many of those people are quite elderly at this point in time. Even as we were writing the book, people were dying. Cindi: Yeah, Ed Woell died. Ron Hill died, and now Nancy Gordon has died. Susan: Mary Tompkins passed away. Cindi: Mary Tompkins passed away. Several people had already passed away, but this history will not be quite the same unless people go and interview these older makers soon. This is part of the problem: with them dies a huge amount of information. It's impossible to know anything concrete about a jeweler unless you actually talk to them. Anyway, I hope that if people do want to take up this mantle or if they do a symposium, they do it soon, because they may be all gone by the time we get there. Sharon: People do it on Cartier and Renee Beauvois, and they're not around. Susan: They also kept better records and took better photographs. With those wealthy jewelry companies, it's very different than being a unique maker on your own in your little studio. Many of these people weren't even taking photographs of the work at the time necessarily, or if they were, certainly they were not great ones. They just clicked on a photo link on a slide back. This is not the wealthy, recorded advertising world of Cartier. This is a very different world. Cindi: As someone who has done a Cartier exhibition, I can also tell you that it's about the firm and about styles. You don't learn about who the individual designers were of X, Y and Z pieces, but Susan's right. For artists who are listening to this, it is incumbent upon you to document your work. Today, there are obviously tools that artists from the 60s and 70s could not have availed themselves of, which would have made it much easier. So, document your work, keep track of your work and update the way you document it, so that somebody 30 or 40 years from now who is wanting to do something in depth on you is not having to battle with an old technology that nobody knows how to use anymore, which then can make things invaluable. I'm old school. I'm a big believe in paper. I know that is completely against the way the world works, but I am wary. I have experience with recorded, even digital formats, that we don't have the equipment to use anymore; nobody knows how to use it. If you have a paper printout, you're never going to have that problem. I know that this is environmentally incorrect, that everybody's moving towards digital files. I have them myself, but I still like paper because it's what's going to be preserved for history. Sharon: That's very good advice about documenting. It benefits the artist now and makes life easier for those who follow as historians and people who want to look at it academically. Susan and Cindi, thank you so much for being with us today. It was so interesting. Susan, we look forward to your next part, 1A I guess we'll call it. Thank you so much. Susan: Thanks for having us, Sharon. It's been wonderful. Cindi: Thank you, Sharon. Sharon: Delighted to have you. Cindi: Please do let your audiences know that the book is widely available. My plug on all these things is that we know you can buy books from Amazon. Please buy your book from a local independent bookseller, or even better, come to the MFAH's website. You can buy it off of our website, which goes to support our museum's programs.   We will have images posted on the website. You can find us wherever you download your podcasts, and please rate us. Please join us next time, when our guest will be another jewelry industry professional who will share their experience and expertise. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.  

People have been asking me (for years) about my personality type. What enneagram am I? What other random test situation? I have actually never really paid attention to all that, so now I'm starting a series where I take a personality test and discuss it! Today it is the DISC test, an OLD one from the 1920s mainly used in business. DISCLAIMER Colorful words may be used. don't be alarmed. NEWSLETTER https://view.flodesk.com/pages/61525a85337f1c2aacf52f6d Etsy Shop is open! https://www.etsy.com/shop/CGBPrints FIND ME ON ALL THE THINGS Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/cindyguentertbaldo YouTube - https://youtube.com/c/CindyGuentertBaldo Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/llamaletters/ Discord - https://discord.gg/Rwpp7Ww Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/llamaletters/ Website - www.cindyguentertbaldo.com STUFF I MENTIONED DISC Test - https://www.123test.com/disc-personality-test/ Info on the test - https://www.ionos.com/startupguide/productivity/disc-assessment/ Inquiries - cindy@cindyguentertbaldo.com   TRANSCRIPTION Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the uncurated life podcast. Today is the first of what I think is going to be several personality test episodes. I'm Cindy Guentert-Baldo. And if this is your first time here, welcome, I would love it. If you subscribed and hung out. Hopefully after you're appearing all of this today, you'll be fine with that.   And if this is not your first time, welcome back. If you want to take this test and you haven't before it'll be linked in the show notes, let's get right into it. As a preface. I have had so many people since I've started doing YouTube and everything else. This whole online creator situation, I have had so many people ask me what type of personality I am, what Enneagram I am, what fucking I N G P w.   Five that I am. I don't know. I don't actually do a lot of personality tests because I don't usually have the patience to sit down and do that. I have taken some of, there was one quiz I took a long time ago that maybe I'll try and find again where you're supposed to answer a bunch of questions about your values.   And then they take every all like a hundred and something religions, and then they decide which ones you're the closest to. And I remember doing that in my top three. We're secular Quaker, Unitarian Universalist, which is what I became and secular humanist, which is also what I said that there's that maybe I'll do that one again.   See if it's. Maybe add that in the political test, whatever, but personality test wise, the one or two that I've taken was like decades ago. And so I thought that this would be a fun little segment to have on the podcast every once in a while, because personality tests are in my mind, both garbage and interesting.   So I'm fine with both of those things, right. You should have heard last week's episode. When I talked about the Lula rich documentary. Which is garbage and interesting. Right? Anyway, so I am going to take the test today and then I will report back afterwards. So I'm not going to fill my, I'm not gonna record myself actually taking the test because that could take a long time and it might skew the results.   But I'll talk about the test. I will pause the recording, take the test, and then immediately afterwards report back on what I found and what I think about. Okay. I think that's going to be interesting if you think this is a cool format or a good idea, please let me know at Lama letters on Instagram, let me know in the stories.   If you take the test as well, let me know what you get. I'm so curious. And if you know of personality tests, you'd like me to try. I would love it. If you let me know in the DMS on. Also, just as reminder, if you haven't signed up for my newsletter, it is where I am giving you guys monthly peaks into everything you can reply to it.   And I can take your in your info interest. Can I talk now on which personality test to try or what podcast episodes you would like the info for that is in the show notes and October's freebie is currently available unless it's not October anymore than it might be a different freebie. You'll find out anyway.   Let's move forward. Today's test is an old one and it is the D I S C test. I pick this one because it's a shorter test. It's just, so it's an easy one to start with. Right? The D I S C stands for dominance influence, steadiness and compliance. The test is linked in the show notes. I'm sure there's different versions.   The one that I will be taking is linked. It's like 1, 2, 3 test.com or something it's linked. If you want to take it with me. One of the things I found when I Googled this is some criticism of the test specifically in like corporate work situations. A lot of these personality tests are utilized by companies to, I don't know, psychoanalyze their fucking employees instead of just giving them like better wages.   I don't know. That's not good into like an anti-capitalist rant right now, but I wanted to read you some of this because I think it's kind of enlightening on the test. I got this from a website called  dot com. It's like some. Fucking shit that has a bunch of corporate-y bullshit, but whatever, I thought that the criticism was interesting.   Right? So this is a quote from the website. The DIC assessment is among the most widely used personality tests in the corporate world, but it has been under scrutiny. Critics say that the assessment tool is outdated scientific findings in personality, psychology post 1920. So that's when the test, the test.   Early 20th century, post 1920 are not considered an empirical science-based foundation does not exist. Quality criteria such as validity are values that should be measured, actually being measured and reliability. Our results. The same every time are not fulfilled. The fact that D I S C personality tests seem to make applicable statements can be traced back to the Barnum effect.   According to this, we like to ascribe to desirable widespread or vague statements, although they're applicable to many different. In the last few decades, new assessments and personality psychology have been designed that speak of five key personality types, openness, conscientiousness, extroversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism.   Four personality types alone are no longer regarded as true to our time and quote. That was a lot of jargon. But what I gleaned from that was that a, this test is outdated based on what we know about psychology and. Aside from the fact that like the personalities it's testing for are outdated, the way the test is kind of built is kind of vague.   So it's entirely possible to take it more than once and get different answers. I'm going to take this test now and I will report back on both my personality types that it gives me what I think of the test. And do I agree with this criticism based on my extremely unscientific mind. So let's do quick pause and we'll be right back.   All right. I am done taking the test and I decided to pay for the extended report. For the sake of science. I imagine I'll be doing a lot of that during these episodes, but that's okay because my podcasts are sponsored by my patrons and you should check out www.patreon.com/cindyguentertbaldo to find out more anyway, before I let you know my thoughts on the test in both digging into the test a little bit more and realized that I didn't give you a good kind of explanation of what these things are.   Um, and I have little bit more information cause I have this, uh, bigger report that gives you some more info on what the test actually is. I thought it would fill you in on that and then let you know my thoughts on the test and how I scored. So we talked about the four types, right? Dominant, influence, steadiness and compliance.   Well, they have definitions for those dominance describes the way you deal with problems, assert yourself and control situations. Influence describes the way you deal with people, the way you communicate and relate to others. Steadiness describes your temperament, patience, persistence, and thoughtfulness, and compliance describes how you approach and organize your activity, procedures, and responsibilities.   The D I'm going to read from the report. The DIC theory is often visualized as a quadrant where the top bottom and left right sides represent specific behavioral tendencies. People who score high on dominance and compliance tend to be more task oriented, where people who score higher on influence and steadiness are more people oriented.   Those scoring high on dominance and influence are generally more assertive and active. And higher scores on compliance and steadiness give rise to calm and more cautious, cautious behavioral styles. So what they also say is that the dimensions of the DIC are not dependent on each other. So you could score in one of the areas and it doesn't determine your score.   Like if you score high in one area, it doesn't necessarily negate your score in another area. One of the things that they do. And part of the reason I paid for the results is that your test results. And I saw my results. Give you. Like which one you're the highest in, and it shows how you breathe. They all break the four breakdown, but there are 15 profiles that have been identified as a good coverage of the possible outcomes based on your score overall on each of the things and those 15 outcomes in alphabetical order are the achiever, the coach, the counselor, the creator, the enthusiast, the evaluator, the individualist, the inspiration.   The investigator, the objective thinker, the perfectionist, the persuader, the practitioner, the results oriented and the specialist. Um, I don't know which one I am yet because I haven't scrolled down that far before I do. I'm going to give you my thoughts on the actual test that I took on this website. I found it to be.   Really general. I felt like, and I think this is the same in a lot of personality tests, there were the same questions being, or the same prompts being given. Phrased slightly differently. So the way this test ran was that they gave you a series of, I think 28 different little blocks of prompts, and each one has four prompts and you were supposed to pick the one that was the most like you and the one that was the least like you, and they weren't necessarily related to each other.   They were just four things. And you pick the one that was most like you and the one that was least like you. And there were 28 sections of that. The problem I was running in. Was that there were some where I could hardly choose which one was the most like me. And there were some where I didn't feel like any of them were like me.   And so those were the hardest ones for me to answer. Matter of fact, I didn't answer one. I just put the one that was least like me kept going and it wouldn't let me finish the test. The other real issue I ran into with the test. And again, I'm not a psychologist. I don't know any of that shit, but I'm like, The other thing that kind of irked me was that when you finish the test, it takes you to a page to get some more information on you, to help figure it out.   And the first thing it asks your gender and only offers the binary choices of male and female, which as we all know, gender is a spectrum, not binary, but moving forward. So my DIC score I'm scrolling down. So   in order. I scored the highest on dominance and then the next highest on influence the next highest on steadiness and the lowest on compliance. It doesn't surprise me. Now, when I saw the original results before I bought the report, it actually showed it on a pie chart. And the way the pie chart looked was that a little over half of my answers indicated dominance.   And then of the other half that was left, it was like a sliver of compliance and then pretty much equally distributed between influencing steadiness with a little bit more of influence over steadiness. So the next section on the report says your responses indicate that you want to assert yourself and like to take control, enjoy competition and challenge are self-sufficient and individualistic and all go.   Our goal orient. I tend to be direct and positive with people like to sweep people along with your forcefulness are persuasive, especially when seeking help or commitment, get restless and bored when involved in routine and repetitive work and activities need change and variety in your work. And non-work life may be impatient with people who are less dynamic than.   And that I'm independent and uninhibited feel restrained by rules and restrictions prefer to be measured by short-term rather than long-term results and are willing to take an unconventional approach. I tend to agree with probably about three quarters of that. The things I think, where I feel like this is not at least in my understanding of myself.   The biggest things are that I get restless and bored in routine and repetitive work and activities. That is so not true. I am a creature of habit and when my routines and repetitive things are disturbed, I get really, really grouchy. That was the one I think I, uh, I disagreed with the most on this list. I also, I agree with the direction.   And like sweeping people along, but I don't know how persuasive I am. So that one is a question mark for me, but a lot of this is very much me, so I agree with that. So my profile from that list of what was it, 12 mine is the results oriented. And I'm going to read this to you. You are individualistic, demanding and persistent.   You seek out challenging situations and are responsive to competition. You should be able to handle the daily stresses and pressures of work in life. However, when really pushed, you may become rather irritable and fault-finding people see you as a take charge sort of person who is self-confident and strives for results.   I mean, the part that's cracking me up here is the one really pushed. You may become irritable and fault-finding. Yeah. Yeah, that's accurate. Here are some key words that people often use to describe the results oriented profile, demanding direct egocentric self-assured change oriented, frustrated by lack of progress, persistent, determined, stubborn, independent, and quote own person.   Now I kind of take a little umbrage at egocentric, but at the same time, Isn't that something an egocentric person would say, I don't know. Oh, my prime value for an organization, because this is through a corporate website. Is your driving forcefulness and determination to achieve goals? Uh, tactic and strategy for increased effectiveness says, you appreciate need to.   I need to appreciate that some people may not be as dynamic and forceful as you avoid confrontation by developing your empathy and increasing your tolerance. Impose a little extra self-discipline when faced with details and routine work. And see here is again the point where I feel. This isn't exactly me is that, um, I already do avoid confrontation for the most part, because I really dislike it.   I consider myself to be fairly empathetic and, um, like I said, I really like details and routine work, but now this is interesting most, unlike your profile. The perfectionist, the profile most opposite to your profile is the perfectionist. You will most likely not recognize yourself in these descriptions of the perfectionist conservative, very modest, logical, always systematic, factual, non demonstrative, deliberate, careful, precise.   Accurate predictable and controlled. They're not wrong. I pretty much see myself in zero of those.   Whew, non demonstrative, logical conservative. No. Now here's the interesting part. So I'm looking at the appendix here, which gives you a little bit of a description of all of the different ones. And the one that I'm looking at that I feel like might be a little bit more accurate for me, but again, who fucking knows, right.   Is the persuader, which has some. Some overlap. Right. But the persuader is optimistic, enthusiastic, self-confident persuasive, sociable, change, oriented, independent, persistent, decisive, direct, and demanding. I feel like that is a little bit more, a little bit more, uh, accurate to me. I just took the test and that's, that's what it told me.   So do I, do I think that this test is completely on the nose? No, it's a personality test. Like it's full, it's totally like impacted by my decisions. And there may be a point where maybe I'll come back to this in a year and take it again and see if the same thing happens. But overall, I would suggest that it's not completely off the mark.   I feel like there are a few spots where it feels wildly inaccurate for me, but overall it does feel at least somewhat. Reasonable. I don't know. So I would love to hear from you. About not only what your personality not being pleased, do not pay, do not pay for the 1499 additional PDF. Maybe what you can do is if you really want to just take your score and then give yourself a little.   And the grid would need to be divided into four equal parts D and I on the two top left and right. And then see an S on the bottom left and right. And then kind of just fill in sort of which section has as much as it does. Like whichever one is the most, give it like the biggest and you can kind of see how it fits and maybe just Google it.   I just don't. I spent the money cause I can write it off, but don't spend the money. That's ridiculous. Unless you really want to then spend the money. But I'd love to hear if you take this. Tag me in Instagram stories at @llamaletters. And let me know what you got and tell me that you did it. And if you have any specific personality tests, you'd like me to take in the future.   Let me know in the DMS, this was very odd, but whatever, at least it was a short one. I know that there are some longer ones, I guess. We'll see how that goes. Anyway, don't forget to sign up for the newsletter and check out the Etsy shop, check out the Patreon, do all the things, man, do all the things. But at the very least, if you don't want to do all the things, tag me on Instagram stories that you're listening to this because I'm glad to be back.   And the only real way people know about the podcast is through word of mouth. And that is AOK by me. Thank you so much for watching. I promise to knock it to confrontation and until next time friends, peace out.

On my birthday many moons ago, when Google and I were both a lot younger, I Googled “how to change your life when you're burning out” to see what would come up. I had been feeling hopelessly trapped in a cycle of busyness—like I was racing around in circles every day without any meaningful progress. And it was time to find a better roadmap because I was literally getting depressed with the same old grind.

On this week’s edition of The Present Age podcast, I chat with writer Thor Benson about some of his recent work covering mental health and the pandemic.Parker Molloy: Hey, joining me is the Thor Benson. Hello.Thor Benson: Hi. Thanks for having me.Yeah. Thanks for taking the time to join the podcast. I am very interested in some of the things you've been writing over at... I read the two pieces you wrote for NBC. Can you tell me a little bit about those and how they work into your larger work basically? Also, let people know who you are.For sure.I'm an independent journalist. I've been doing this for about a decade now. Started as a freelancer, have been a freelancer most of the time, but I've had staff jobs here and there. I've written for Daily Atlantic, Rolling Stone, NBC, Business Insider, all kinds of people. And during most of the time I've been writing, psychology has been a pretty big focus of mine, all kinds of science writing and tech writing, and neuroscience also interests me. And when the pandemic started, I was very worried about how it was going to affect people mentally in terms of being quarantined, and isolation is not good for people. It was necessary, of course, because it was God damn pandemic happening.So I was thinking about that a lot and I started researching it and talking to experts and writing about it here and there and then I connected with an editor at NBC at some point, and we were talking about different ideas or what articles we could do together. And I was like, "I've been really wanting to write this big all-encompassing article about the psychological effects of the pandemic, and I feel like we've been in it long enough now that we can have some observations." So I reached out to a ton of psychologists and finally found some that actually had data and stuff to share about how people are dealing with things, and it's really interesting. And then we parlayed that one into another one about people were being crazy on airplanes, they're still doing it, because of mask rules and I think just from being cooped up with each other and being stressed. And so I did an article about that too.Well. That's cool. So what kind of stuff did you find when you were talking to these people? Was there anything that surprised you or was it what you expected?I would say the effects of it were expected, that people would have anxiety and depression and maybe even PTSD from these experiences. What was shocking was how confident everyone I talked to was about if these effects would be long-term and they all seem to think for a lot of people there are going to be long-term effects that won't go away when things go back to, quote-unquote, normal.Well, that's something that when we were first chatting about this, about doing the podcast, you sent over your articles and I thought this is perfect because my mental health has been absolute s**t since the pandemic started. It wasn't great before the pandemic, but that's a different story for a different day. I don't know, there's something about just the whole world having similar issues that make me feel slightly better, but also really worse. It's that weird oh, I'm not alone. Oh no, the whole world is falling apart, that sort of attitude.Part of the reason I was inspired to write about this and why care about these things is because I've dealt with anxiety and depression in my life, so I get it. And so I wanted to hear what other people have to say about it and what you can maybe do about it. I don't know.So what can people do about it? Is there anything to keep themselves from stressing out too much?I could give my personal advice based on what I know of psychology. I think it's good to make sure you're not isolating. Don't constantly be ingesting the news and just try to have some perspective. I feel like things are better now than they were the worst of the pandemic. At least I'm vaccinated now, I can see people and not be so worried.I don't know about you, but I'm still terrified of catching COVID.Yeah, I definitely don't want to.I don't know. I see people post online, Twitter, being like, "Oh, got a breakthrough infection, this sucks." And then there'll be like, "Well, I was really sick for three days, but I didn't go to the hospital." Great. That's good. But also I'm going to do whatever I can to not get sick for three days, just generally speaking. In normal times I'm not going around licking doorknobs or whatever, just being like, "Well, what's the worst I'm going to catch? The flu? Meningitis?" That would be bad, but that sort of idea. And I understand that I'm lucky in a sense that I live with my wife and my dog and my cat, I have not been alone as so many people have been.And I even begin to imagine how frustrating and bad for my mental health it would be if I were alone. And it's something that I'm trying to understand, trying to understand how we communicate in times where we're apart. And that's one of the general ideas of the newsletter that I'm doing, the podcast, that sort of thing, how we communicate in times of hyper-connectedness where we're not in the same room, we're not in the same city, that sort of thing. And so can you tell me a little bit about what's happening on airplanes?So I've often been called overly empathetic. When I see people acting this way I'm like these are douchebags, but I feel bad for them because obviously, something's not going right with them. And so I was like, "I'm not going to excuse any behavior, it's wrong to be aggressive on airplanes, but I'd like to figure out if there's maybe a reason they're behaving this way."Reminder: The Present Age is a reader-supported newsletter. If you enjoy this or other posts, please consider becoming either a free or paid subscriber:And so I found these two psychologists who had done a lot of research into how the psychological effects the pandemic were playing out in people's behavior and they said that, "Yeah, essentially when the pandemic started, it was really stressful and we didn't know what's going to happen and then it just kept going, and so we just had this acute stress response all the time, chronic stress. And so you're always on alert. You're always a little stressed out, even if you don't notice it. And when that builds up over time, people just start lashing out, especially when things like masks have been so politicized and everyone's it's us versus them. It's not surprising that people, when they're asked to put on a mask or something, if they have these views would get really aggressive maybe in ways that they wouldn't otherwise through a pandemic."And I understand that to a certain extent. I don't think anyone likes wearing a mask. Some people might not mind it. Personally, I don't mind wearing a mask because I've always worried about how my face looks when I'm in public.Try having a beard. It looks so weird with the beard.I like wearing sunglasses too, because I like people not being able to see my eyes. It's very strange, but the combo is perfect. It's basically being totally in disguise. I was thinking back to a few years back, I remember there were some cities responding to protests about... I can't remember what the topic was. I think it might've been Confederate statues possibly. I don't know. It sounds like a thing people protest, but there were some cities around the country they were implementing these rules that banned people from wearing masks for a while, which is funny in hindsight where it's now we're like, "No, no, no, please wear a mask. Please cover your face, please don't let us see who you are." But that's interesting.And one thing I've also been thinking a lot about when it comes to the pandemic and how we're adapting to all sorts of things, even just on my end, we got a puppy in January 2020, and so it wasn't the plan for us to be constantly around. And now he has these extreme separation anxiety issues where we have to make a point of leaving to try to condition him to be okay with that sort of stuff. And I can't even imagine how that affects people with children or people with their extended family members who need in-person care, that sort of thing. Is there anything that you've been reading about or anything that came up about those sorts of worries or is that beyond—Well, no, there's definitely been some research into it. I haven't read a time, but as far as I can tell this whole situation has been very traumatic for parents and children. Parents because they're trying to take care of their kid and that's already stressful enough and then you add the pandemic stressors, worried about the kid getting sick and are you getting sick and not being able to take care of the kid. And then for the kids, if they're quite young they don't know why they're putting this thing on their face and they don't really understand something as large in scope as a pandemic and maybe they weren't able to go to school and see their friends. So it's been really tough.I'm sure. And that brings me a little bit to the other piece you sent me, the one for the new station that was about climate anxiety and declining birth rates. Can you tell me a little bit about that piece?So I want to say, as I do in the piece, right away that I think the biggest factor in the declining birth rates is economics. It's really expensive and income inequality is bad, but there's also, I believe, some psychological components there. We just have a really uncertain future we're facing, and especially when you're going through a pandemic you think about climate change and you're like, "Things are only going to get worse from here," and that make you less likely to have children or maybe have fewer children. Research seems to show that people are okay with the idea of replacing themselves, but they don't want to go beyond that, so maybe they'll have two kids and a lot of people seem to be worried about if by having kids there'll be contributing to climate change because kids use up resources like we all do.I don't know. I think the one thing that came out of the pandemic for me is just the fact that I think... Let me see, how do I phrase this? I think the one thing that really hit home when it came to the pandemic, that really stuck with me, is just those existential questions of humanity living... Because for a while, for a long time, I didn't really think about that much and I didn't think anything. I thought oh, a thousand years from now there'll be people doing whatever, but now I'm honestly like, "I don't know, maybe we got 100, 200 years left tops."These sorts of things that obviously will not personally affect me in the sense that going extinct, but there is that aspect of it where my mind has been blown by these sorts of existential threats to humanity that stick around. And I don't know, one thing I've been thinking a lot about is just the fact that at some point in the future, no matter how famous a person is, there will come a time where no one remembers that person. Whether it's 500 years, 1,000 years from now, and it's just weird and I blame the pandemic for sending me down a philosophical rabbit hole that has ended up there.Well, I think one of the things that pandemic did to people's minds, and I feel this all the time, is it makes us think about such big things. And it's hard to think about big things all the time. Throughout the day I'm like, "Oh, how our infection rates in France? I'm never looking up health stats in France or Japan or something pre-pandemic, unless I'm working on an article like that. But you constantly have to think globally, and same with climate change, it's we're all screwed kind of feeling. I think your best mentally when you're very focused on just what's around you, I'm walking down the street, I'm going to meet up with my buddy, grab a sandwich on the way. That's very simple and easy to think of, not like the end of humanity.God, that is something I'm trying to work towards, to be more in the moment rather than thinking about how everything could fall apart. But it's difficult.It's easy to spiral.Yeah. One thing with the pandemic that I can't quite get over is just the fact that... I don't know. My one hope for climate change was that hey, there's this big problem we'll come together and solve it. And it seemed maybe a little bit of wishful thinking, but now there's this big problem and we found a way to make it so much worse with the pandemic, people refusing to wear a mask, which is the mildest inconvenience possible, people being asked not to go to Applebee's or something for six months, these things, people were like, "This is tyranny and I will fight it."And you're just like, "What are you even doing, man? Why?" And I think that part of it comes down to just that there are people who a big part of their personality is they don't like being told what to do, even if it's beneficial for themselves and others. And honestly, if it was just themselves, I wouldn't really care. I would be like, "Fine, make the decisions about your life that are going to affect your life," but when we have 30% of the country that refuses to get vaccinated or refuses to wear a mask, that sort of stuff, it just drags this whole thing on. So I'm worried about climate change and that's something that, while I was certainly worried about before the pandemic, has only gotten more intense. Any word or words of wisdom or anything you've learned along the way on that topic?To start, I'll say, let me just say, I may or may not be writing an article you'll be very interested in. Secondly, everything's so polarized these days and it infects everything, you would think certain times we could come together and I think we've seen that doesn't seem to be the case.I'm trying to think of who wrote this thing. There was an article that some conservative dude... Let me just find it. Damn. No, can't find it. I Googled won't get vaccinated because it makes you mad, and it didn't turn up what I wanted to, but it was this conservative dude who wrote an article right when vaccines got made available and was just like, "I'm not opposed to vaccine, but I'm not getting it because it makes you mad," and that's what I want.Oh, it makes us mad?Oh yeah, it makes us mad.I was like you get the injection, suddenly you're raging.28 Days Later vibe. But it's that “own the libs” ethos.There are a lot of people on that side of the aisle. It's the “own the lib” thing being contrarian as a personality somehow or... I think a lot of them work at The Daily Wire.Well, I feel like if I leaned into the contrarian angle on things that I would have significantly more subscribers. Every once in a while I'm just like I should just sell out, I should just start advocating against my own rights and stuff, make bank being like, "Trans people shouldn't be allowed blah, blah, blah." Stuff like that, and there are trans people that do that and they do well for themselves. So I don't know, I guess that speaks to our extremely broken media ecosystem.Yeah, definitely. You and I both tweet about that a lot.And that's why when the advice is maybe don't follow the news all the time... When I was at Media Matters, that's what happens. I reached that breaking point where I was like, "I can't watch the news everyday all day.," And then when you get into 2022, it's just going to be non-stop election stuff for the entire year. And then beyond that, once you're past the midterms, it becomes presidential election season. So it's just never going to end.Right after Biden was inaugurated, they're like, "So is Trump running in 2024?" I was like, "Can we have a moment?"God, it's so exhausting, but at the same time I feel like it's important. And I feel like the work that we do, the type of journalism that we do, these pieces by you are very important in that regard, they make the world a better place by existing because they help explain the world and your work doesn't sit there and say, "Republicans are morons."No, that's my Twitter.But these articles are great and I wish that the stuff that you wrote was as popular as whatever the hell Ben Shapiro's writing today on his blog. And you could pick any day, any day, whatever Ben's writing is probably bad. So that sort of idea.All I ever see is a little bit of video clips.He's something else. I'm trying to think. I was going to ask you something, but then I totally forgot. Let's see if it comes back to me.How's it been going doing the newsletter thing and all that?Yeah, so doing the newsletter, it's slow going. It's been very gradual, it's steady growth, but I'm not quite where I need to be financially.For sure.But that may change. Before I left my job at Media Matters, I made sure that I had a little bit of stability underneath me to hold me over while I tried to build this thing. And so it's been slow going, but I really like the freedom to write about whatever I want and not have to pitch it and not have to make it fit some editors idea of what I should have, but sometimes that results in my pieces just being long and rambling, chaotic for no reason.I tried to do the newsletter thing and I just couldn't seem to pick a lane. I was just like, "I'm going to share a fiction piece and then I'm going to write about something Republicans are doing." And I was like, "This is not cohesive."That's another reason that I decided to pick something that was just super broad, communication, that means everything. Everything is communication. Sending emails, communication. Watching TV, sure. That sort of stuff. But I don't know. I'm excited about the future of journalism in that sense, that there are these avenues that are outside of traditional publications. Because I know free freelancing, which was initially my plan, was to freelance, it's just so annoying having to pitch things and to get rejected or to not even hear back. That's always the worst where...I almost never get a response to my first email, I always have to follow up.It's so frustrating. And so it finally got to the point where I stopped pitching op-eds to places like New York Times, Washington Post, not Wall Street Journal, they would never do that. But it's these sorts of things where I'm just like, "If someone wants me to write a freelance piece for them, they will reach out and then I will assess it." How's freelancing going?It's good. So you probably saw I was in Europe for a while. So while I was there I was trying to keep it going but also enjoy the trip. So I was doing half as much work as usual. And so now I've been back for three weeks and had to ramp things up again and things are going well, I'm doing some good freelancing with... I don't know if I'm allowed to say but basically it's someone who I used to work with a lot is bringing me back into the fold.Well, that's cool. That's cool and cryptic, but is there anything else before we wrap this up? Is there anything else you want to add or where can people find you online, anything you want to plug?Yeah, just follow me on Twitter, friends, it's Thor underscore Benson B-E-N-S-O-N, Thor like the superhero because everyone thinks it's Thorn for some reason when I say it.I was debating when I was setting up, I was like, "I should just come prepared with all sorts of questions as though I thought I was scheduling an interview with Chris Hemsworth or something. I'm sure that doesn't get old.I'm used to it. It's just part of my life.Cool. Well, that's great. I'll be sure to link to all of your work in the transcript of this. To do that, people can go to readthepresentage.com. Cool. Thanks for stopping by.Good to be here. Get full access to The Present Age at www.readthepresentage.com/subscribe

Listen to Brian Clark's podcast https://unemployable.com/podcast/intersectional-positioning/ 20mins inhttps://www.nerdfitness.com/Transcript [00:00:00] Hey folks. It's Swyx so today's clip is the longest one. I'm sorry about that. Basically. It was such a good story from beginning to end and I could not cut any of it out. It covers nerd fitness, which is one of the fitness blogs I've been tracking for many years. Um, I fell off the radar. A while ago, but I still have very high opinion of it.  Um, I have been one of the passive leaders, but I think the message definitely resonates that it finds a niche, which is nerds. And then it tries to do something to serve that niche. And I think the journey of Steve as a creator, as a writer who went through SEO, Uh, just the exploration and understanding how to do contents for living.  And then starting to build a business on top of it, and then exploring how to productize this stuff that he did. Like don't teach me what to do, just do it for me. I think it's a very typical business journey for bootstrappers that is extremely successful. He's essentially one guy, maybe if a team of 20 something, people making millions of dollars a year. And I think. What's great about that is that it also helps people be fit so it's just one of those ideal bootstrap businesses that is just win-win. So my origin story. After college, I was living in San Diego and I was selling construction equipment. I was in sales because I didn't know any better. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. Both my parents were in sales, so I just figured get in, get into sales. I've lived by the beach. I worked in sales and I was terrible at it. So, so bad. I had very little experience with construction equipment, renting. I was renting out forklifts and boom lists. Giant downtown projects in San Diego 22 or 23 at the time. And just have no idea what I'm doing and on a particularly miserable. Day at work on my lunch break. I walked into a bookstore and I felt like the sun was shining through the window and spotlighted this book that had just come out. I had no idea who the author was or what it was all about, but I saw the cover and the book is called Tim Ferriss's four hour workweek. So I see this book as like, it was literally the first week it came out. So this was 2007, I think, or somewhere in there. And I picked it up and I read it and. A big part of the book was like, pick something that you're good at and a social group that you're a part of and see where you can find that overlapping, gap. And for myself, I was like, well, I just cracked the code for myself personally, about my health and fitness. And I was spending an inordinate amount of time playing video games. I was like, well, I don't think I could write like the best fitness website, but. I could probably help people that are beginners. And who else has big, is a beginner fitness. That's self-conscious and like, can think of fitness, like a video game nerds do that. It's like, all right. I Googled nerd and fitness, nothing popped up. I was like, huh. All right, let's do that. So I bought nerd fitness.com and then I did nothing with it for like two years. Cause I was so afraid to get started. Eventually quit. The first job started a sec or went to work at a different company. It was while I was at that second company, I got certified as a trainer. I got further education and finally worked up enough. To start writing basic articles about beginners getting started with health and fitness. And that was it, but like, I didn't start it because I saw that nerd culture was going to become popular. Like, I didn't know, Disney was going to acquire star wars and Marvel and like, it was just going to become cool to be a nerd. I was just like, I'm playing 40 hours a week of EverQuest, which was like, even nerdier than world. Like I'm playing all of these video games and I want to talk about nerd stuff. Like let's just stick the two together and see what happens. And fortunately I didn't know any better, which is what I started at before.  Yeah, that's amazing. Because now of course you look like a genius, like just a complete marketing guru who saw how these two things would work together because the stereotype of course, is that nerds don't work out. Did it well, but you were an exception, I guess. So in many ways it seems like you created this. That someone like you would want. And it just happened to also resonate with a lot of  exactly. I, so when I was starting my fitness journey I did what most guys do. I went out and bought like muscle and fitness magazine and I followed like the bodybuilder workout programs. And after like three weeks, I'm like, well, I don't, I look like that guy. It's like, well, because you're not on steroids and you don't eat like that dude. And he's been training for 25 years. So I most stuff that I found. I felt either disconnected from like, I have nothing in common with this guy, or I felt almost like, I want to say ashamed, but rather like most of the fitness marketing is built around like, Hey, you're not. And you're not good enough, but if you buy this thing, then you will be good enough and everything will get better. And I was like, that's [00:05:00] just that's bad shame on you for doing that. And let's try to give people like actually helpful information without the hype and the nonsense. And just like, here's what you need to know. Here are the, all the mistakes that I made. Like let's get rid of all that. Let's do some basic stuff and get you started. And then we can also still talk about Harry Potter and star wars and talking,  right? Yeah. The whole shredded bro aspect of fitness. They're all trying to outmatch show each other. And I think that turns a lot of people off it doesn't work with me at all. So I, for further, I linked to nerd fitness guides all the time, because you've got the humor you've got the pop culture references, which is something I did at Copyblogger early on. I mean, that's literally how I was able to make myself write two long articles. Like it's because I would go, well, how can I use a prince metaphor to explain content? So when you first started, was it was just you, right? You were  writing about the content. It was just me a long time. And interestingly, so I guess I started really working on the blog at night while I was working the day job in 2009. And back at that, then. Which is the same today. Everything I read on the internet was like, you need to write short posts. You need to publish five days a week because nobody has the attention span to read long stuff. So for like six weeks, I think again, I didn't know any better. I didn't know what I was doing. I spent six months writing like 400 word articles. A lot of them were like very topical, but quickly out of date. Cause it was about something that happened that week and after like five months, six months, something like that, I had. I don't know, 20 subscribers. Like I don't even think I had an email list yet. I was just like, people could subscribe the RSS and who's like, oh man, this is cool. 20 people are reading. And then I started stumbling across Bloggers that were writing long form content. And almost overnight, I was like, I'm going to try something different. Like instead of writing these short posts, I'm going to write one long article, but it's going to be like 2000 words. I'm going to cover an entire topic and just see what happens. And like right away, it felt better to me because it was long. I had to keep myself entertained, which is where the pop culture nerdy references came in. I was like, if I'm not enjoying writing this, then nobody's going to enjoy reading it. So like, I have to keep myself. Entertained throughout the writing process. Like if I'm laughing, maniacally, as I'm typing about vegetables, like I'm doing something right. So I would write these articles and they started resonating very quickly with the people that were already reading, but it started bringing in new people. And then over that next year, things really exploded because like you, Brian, I was doing two long form articles a week and I did that every week for years. But yeah, it was literally just me. Right. And two articles a week answering every email, replying to every comment while also still working the full-time day job.  That's interesting that they were still saying the short article thing in 2009, because don't  forget.  Yeah, well, I mean, w in the blogging space in 2005, it was like, well, you got to write every day and it's 250 words, and it's your opinion. And I was like, no. And so I wrote thousand word articles that were educational twice a week because I couldn't fill all five of them. And that's why Copyblogger, I think really took off quickly. Once you were offering a little more high-impact value, then of course, we got to the point where everyone, it was like, what I called the content arms, race. Everyone was trying to out value the other person, especially. People in the SEO community early social media, that was what would make it to the dig home page and all of that kind of stuff. Pre Facebook and Twitter. But yeah, I would have thought by 2009, They would stop giving that bad advice, but apparently  you found, I was clearly taking the advice from the wrong places and didn't, I didn't know what he didn't know. Like my, my, I wasn't, I probably had never even heard of the term SEO at that point, digital marketing. Like those weren't even thoughts in my mind. It was literally like, if I can just start a website, like I'm a nerd, but I'm a video game and bookworm a video game player in bookworm. Developer or programmer. I don't know much about internet marketing. So first, like, man, if I can just write it and like this WordPress thing seems cool, like, all right, I'll put some stuff up there and probably Googled like how to blog. And some of the stuff I found was unhelpful. Luckily I then stumbled across a few bloggers back in the day that were helpful. And I tried to emulate them by as like, yeah. Two articles a week. I'm putting out good stuff and just focusing on.  Did you have aspirations to write had you written before you started the blog?  No. It wasn't until, so I quit the sales job and I moved to Atlanta, Georgia where two of my college roommates were looking for a third roommate. And I went to work at this company called six men and six men [00:10:00] produces floating music festivals. It's literally like rent a cruise ship and then put John Mayer and 20 other bands on the boat and then sell every other cabin to fans of those musicians and create this floating music festival. So it was while I was working for the. My job was like marketing assistant for something to start. I got paid very little, but it was so much fun. And I learned a lot. And part of my job is building or fostering the community for each of the each of the different boats. Each one had a different music genre and thus a different audience that needed to be spoken to in a different language. So. Working with them. They said, Hey, we're going to start this thing called a blog. And we're going to put it on our company website. And everybody needs to take a turn, writing an article. And then I wrote something and this was like the first time probably. Probably maybe the first time ever that I got to do truly creative writing where it wasn't a term paper for college about, Abraham Lincoln or it wasn't a business deep dive into something, but it was like, truly write about a band that you love, that you happen to just watch perform on the deck of a cruise ship, parked in The Bahamas and let's have some fun with it. And I wrote, and I was like, oh, this is way different. And then they very quickly said like, okay, you're now in charge of the blog. Okay. We just want you to write all the time. So I just started writing all the time and learned like, oh, like if you write about things that are fun and interesting to you, like time flies by. And that's when it finally clicked for me, it was like, okay, I'm not going to become like a personal. That trains people that are nerdy with nerd fitness. That's one-to-one what if I start a blog or turn it into a blog that is, one to a hundred, one to 1,001 to a million, like, I can have some more fun with this. So I never, as a kid growing up, I didn't, I never imagined I would become a writer that could happen to accidentally I guess serendipitously as a result of some other opportunities that came up.  Okay, well, that seems like a good segue into product. Like at what point after you started the blog, did you understand what type of coaching or courses that you would develop? What was that process like  for you? Yeah, very organic. It was, I didn't know what I was going to sell, but I figured if I can just get a good. Number of people reading the website and then ask them, how can I help you? Like. What is the thing that you're struggling with, then it's going to give me an opportunity to create either a product or a service in that space and and then serve those people and they'd be happy about it. So there was about 18. After I had started after I had started a website, part-time and over those 18 months, I just kept getting the same questions over and over again, it was like, Steve, can you just give me a workout? Like, I think I even had an article that was like how to build your own workout and all the comments and all the emails I got were like, can you just do this for me? Like, I'll pay you. It's like, oh, all right. Well, that seems like an easy place to start. Why don't I create I'll, my community at that time, I called it the rebel. I think I started calling it the rebel Alliance, but then it evolved now where the nerd fitness rebellion, it was like, let's call it the rebel fitness guide. Well, I'll make a PDF charged. Like I think I was like terrified. I asked for $30 for this thing that was going to, it was like six months worth of workouts and everything you needed to know about nutrition and my. And I asked for 30 bucks and managed to sell enough of them to buy me like a month or two's worth of income. It's like, okay, this is now officially a business. I should probably try to start taking this thing a little more seriously. Let's go to find, let's go find more people that are like the people that are currently buying this and continue down this path of like, okay, this is no longer a hobby. This is a thing that I think I can devote my. So, what is the current product offering that you have at nerd fitness? So wait you rebel Alliance to nerd fitness Alliance. That's  finish rebellion  rebellion. Okay. The rebellion is from Disney. They're like you can't be the rebel Alliance.  I mean, it was very comically. I asked the community, I said like, Hey guys, I don't want to just call us. Like welcome to the nerd fitness community. Like that doesn't seem nerdy enough. So I was like, what do you guys want to do? Like, I think you can even still, I think the blog post still exists maybe, but I was like, do you guys want to start an empire? And I was thinking like, Roman empire, I wasn't even thinking star wars, empire. And then I was like, or do you want to like, help me build a or like run a rebellion and like overwhelmingly the response came back. Dude, we hate the empire. Like we're all rebels. We hate that. I was like,  you can't be the empire,  but like, I wasn't even thinking like star wars, empire inexplicably, like I was thinking like, like, oh, the Roman empire, that was cool and expanding. So, so stupid or so funny. Luckily the community said we're going to be rebels. And then I Googled rebel Alliance and I found this beautiful artwork of somebody had drawn the rebel Alliance [00:15:00] logo in maroon on like a concrete wall. Like at that time, I think the nerd fitness colors, it was like blue and white. And then it was like, oh, okay, here we go. Like nerd fitness logo is already circular. Like it's just right here. I already drew it on a napkin and had a friend digitize it. So it was like, okay. Our color scheme is now red and gray and white and black, like the rebel Alliance. We're going to be the rebellion. We're going to have rules of the rebellion. Welcome to the rebellion. Joined the rebellion. And like things clicked. It was like, okay, this feels like something that people are interested in being a part of. And it was still a small group of people, but people were very passionate about becoming a part of it. And so now I think you mentioned that you work with a team of writers, is that correct? You're no longer  the chief writing guy. Right? So it's evolved a bit. We have we have a few people on the team that have edited past content of mine or I've partnered with, to write other contents. So I have two of them. We'd have 25 w we'll talk about the different aspects that nerd fitness offers now, but one of them is online coaching and two of our coaches are also pretty darn good writers and content creators, Jim and Stacey, and they have also created content. Stacy is a. Powerlifting woman who can deadlift 450 pounds. We just shared, we've shared her success story all over the site. She loves Zelda and and power lifting and has transformed as a result of discovering nerd fitness. Being confident or building up the confidence to pick up a barbell. So now it's not just me. There are other people. We have a mental health expert that has written articles. We have another guy in my team that has helped edit content and kind of repurpose it to make sure that it gets its way around the internet. So, nerd fitness went from just me to now it's at the point where we have close to 50 team members scattered throughout the globe, working on. Different projects and finding different people and helping different people in different ways. Wow.  Wow. That's amazing. So yeah, the reason I asked about the writing aspect is because again, going back to the incongruency, if you will, how do you even find someone. It was a power lifter and is into Zelda. I mean, that's just, I guess they find you just like with Copyblogger, we got up to 65 people and they all came through the audience and they all understood the mission. You didn't have to have like, the break room manifesto on the way. Everyone knew what Copyblogger stood for. It. It's the same thing with nerve fitness.  Yeah. You either get it or you don't and if you don't get it, then it's probably not for you, but if you do get it welcome aboard, let's go. Exactly. So you've evolved from that initial $30 PDF thing. To where you're actually doing one-on-one coaching. Is that right?  Yeah. So we I've had to reinvent and transform nerd fitness as a company in a community like a dozen times in the past dozen years. Like, it seems like every year we're trying, we're reinventing ourselves. As things changed, the community remains the same, but the services or products or whatever it may be have evolved over that time. So we've simplified things lately. Two ways to support nerd fitness are two ways to paid services that nerd fitness offers. One of them is called nerd fitness prime. It's our online private community. We have an app that you get as part of joining our fitness prime called nerd fitness journey. You get to create a superhero character. You have daily missions to complete your character earns different items. You carefully craft your alter ego, your origin story. And then there's, there's villains to battle and storylines that go along with each aspect of it. So that's the that's nerd fitness, prime and or fitness journey. The app is free to download and try out. And then the higher tiered project or process for people that are interested in more one-on-one instruction is our online coaching program which very similar to everything else that nerd fitness happened organically. I had those two coaches, Jim and Stacey were creating content. But I said, Hey, I wonder if we can I have a car, I have a, at that time I already had my, I had an online coach myself and I still have the same coach to this day, five or six years. So I wonder if people in our audience are interested in this. So before building anything, we sent an email out to our, the women of our community. And we sent an email out to the men of our community and said, Hey, we're thinking of doing this online coaching program. You have to fill out this really long application. It's going to be expensive, but you're going to get one-on-one instruction from Jim or Stacy. And let us know if you're interested and we got a hundred. A hundred applications for both sides of that. It was like, okay, here we go. Seems like this is something we're interested in. I mean, we were using Evernote to track workouts and people were like texting to coach and very quickly we pivoted to a third-party software and then eventually built our own. So, and that has just continued to grow and blossom through we're. Now at the point where we have. 25 full-time coaches. We just hired two more. This week, we hired three last week or three, two weeks prior to that we built our own custom software where each coach now has a dashboard that they see, they know which clients did they need to interact with. Each client gets, one-on-one instruction from the type of workout they're doing. They can tell [00:20:00] their coach that they're traveling the following week and the coach builds them a travel workout. They take pictures of their food and the coach helps them slowly adjust their diet. It's and it's all done with a superhero theme to it. So it's a, so that's really like nerd fitness is super simple. Join our email list. If you're interested in learning more about our community, come check it out. Try downloading our fund habit, building superhero app, or if you want one-on-one instruction from one of our certified instructors that lives and breathes the nerd fitness philosophy, check out our coaching program. Again, you see that 20 minute journey going through his writing, you know, a serving on a music party boat through whatever. Uh, turning into a blog and then turning into coaching and then turning into productized services. I think it's a very repeatable process and I think it's just amazing to watch. 

We were not meant to live our lives by simply going through the motions. Unfortunately, far too many people go through their days feeling unsettled and unhappy with their circumstances. Donna Bond is no stranger to this feeling. Transforming herself from a marketing executive to now a life and spiritual coach, Donna shares her powerful story of her refusal to accept anything less than the best that life has to give.  Support the Podcast Light After Trauma website Donna's website Denise's website Transcript   Alyssa Scolari [00:23]: Hey. What's up everybody? How's it going? Welcome back to another episode. I'm really excited about the next couple months as we really dive into this fall season because I've got some awesome content lined up. I am so excited. As a quick little reminder, I just want to ask, if you haven't done so already and you are enjoying what you are hearing on the podcast, please head on over to wherever you like to listen and leave a review and rating for the podcast. That does wonders in terms of trying to spread awareness for the podcast and to garner more support for the podcast. I love doing this. I want to continue doing it us. And one of the big ways in which I will be able to continue to do this is through your help and your support. So please leave a review. We also have a Patreon, if you are able to support that, that would be incredible so that we can have even more content. And you can find that Patreon either in the show notes or you can go to the website, which is lightaftertrauma.com and you will have everything you need there. So with that said, I will dive right into who our guest speaker is today. We have got the lovely Donna Bond and Donna is a spiritual advisor, a business and life coach and the author of Original Wisdom: Harness The Power of the Authentic You. Donna is supporting individual transformation of consciousness and she assists clients across the globe and she helps them to evolve to new heights of meaningful success, personal growth and fulfillment and spiritual aliveness using the principles and practices of spiritual psychology. And I think it's really important to note that Donna has a master's degree in spiritual psychology, which truthfully, I'm not very familiar with at all. So I'm really looking forward to diving in and finding out what that is all about because I didn't even know getting a master's degree in spiritual psych was an option. So we are going to find out all the answers to those questions Tuesday with Donna. So hi Donna. Welcome to the podcast. Donna Bond [02:46]: Hi Alyssa. Thank you for having me. So glad to be here. Alyssa Scolari [02:50]: So glad to be here too. I am just for the listeners. I am looking at such a dreamy background. We've got Donna's book in the background and then are those pink roses? Donna Bond [03:04]: Those are pink roses. Alyssa Scolari [03:06]: Are they real? Donna Bond [03:07]: Yes, they are real. I get roses every week as a gift to myself and as a gift to my clients and I just love the energy that they hold and the fragrance that they emit and they remind me to be soft and go with the flow and yeah, I love them. I love them. Alyssa Scolari [03:31]: Yes, I'm loving them as I'm seeing in the background. And they really do radiate just serenity. My eye keeps drifting over to them and I'm like oh, they're so dreamy. Okay. So that was our rose corner. If you don't have roses, get some in your home. I apparently need to go out after this and buy some roses. So welcome. And I wanted to start out by asking you one of the things that I was saying right off the bat in the introduction is you have a master's degree in spiritual psychology? Donna Bond [04:06]: Yeah. With an emphasis in consciousness, health and healing from the University of Santa Monica. Alyssa Scolari [04:15]: So I actually did... I wasn't even aware that you could get a master's degree in spiritual psychology. Are those programs few and far between or is that something I've just completely missed the mark on? Donna Bond [04:30]: Well, the University of Santa Monica was delivering this master's for about 35 years. Believe it or not. Alyssa Scolari [04:40]: Wow. Donna Bond [04:40]: Yeah. And they actually are no longer delivering the actual master's program, but they have re-imagined their offering into something called soul centered living, which is terrific because it really makes the program available to a wider audience. You don't have to have any prerequisites or credentials to participate in the program. And the study of the program is you, right? You're the topic, you're the homework. It's a journey into yourself. And a lot of the people who attend the program don't go on to work in the field. Many of the graduates do. I have found my way into transformational coaching as a result of the program, but more often than not, people who participate in that program, they just show up in their life in a really different way. Alyssa Scolari [05:49]: Yeah. I love hearing you say that because that's everything that I would imagine that master's degree would be, is a deep dive into you essentially. Donna Bond [06:00]: Yeah. Yes. Alyssa Scolari [06:02]: Oh, man. I might be going back for another master's degree. That sounds phenomenal. Donna Bond [06:08]: Well, the beauty, I know you're in the Northeastern part of the world, the beauty of what they're doing now is they've taken the entire thing online, which it's certainly been amazing to sit in a room with nearly 200 people and have the depth of the experiences that we've all shared together. And being online is really cool because doctors who want to marry whole neck are incredible teachers. They are a spiritual masters of our time and being able to be face-to-face with them on Zoom all up close and personal is pretty magical and pretty special. So yeah, it's a miracle really that anyone around the globe now can do this, but truthfully, when I was there, people would come from Dubai for the weekend. Alyssa Scolari [07:12]: Wow. Donna Bond [07:14]: Yeah. Alyssa Scolari [07:15]: That is, oh, that's incredible. Now can you tell me how... So, can you give me a little bit of backstory on how you made that decision to go for your master's in spiritual psychology? Because as I understand it, you were doing something completely... You were on a completely different track in your life when things seemingly took a complete 180 for you. Donna Bond [07:39]: Yes. So I was in the world of hospitality for 28 years. I was a marketing executive working for the Ritz-Carlton at the time. And it all looked really good on the surface, Alyssa. It all looked really good on the surface, but deep down, I was really unhappy and I didn't know it at the time, but I was developing a frozen shoulder, which was like this gorgeous, outward manifestation where I was in my life because I knew I wasn't happy deep down, but I wasn't doing anything about it. Right? So this outward manifestation of stuckness showed up in a really big and prominent way. And I have always been a spiritual seeker. If you saw my office, you'd see hundreds of books here. I've read it all. I love it all. And so I had gone to see a psychic and literally crying to this psychic like I've got to find my purpose in life and the whole sob story. And she said to me, Donna, they're spelling it out for me. Spiritual psychology. And I said what in the hell is spiritual psychology? Alyssa Scolari [07:39]: What? Donna Bond [09:01]: Yes, literally. So she says, "Oh, there's three universities that teach a program in this." And one of them is the Center for Integral Studies, which is up in Northern California. She said there's also Sophia University, which is also, I think, based in Northern California. Now I think they have a campus in Costa Mesa. And she never got to tell me the name of the third university. So I went home, of course, and consulted the real Oracle. I Googled it. Alyssa Scolari [09:37]: Of course. Donna Bond [09:40]: And very quickly, right? And very quickly found my way to the University of Santa Monica. And I worked with this amazing admissions counselor. And it's so funny to think back, and it's not funny, but it's just incredible to think back at where my mindset was at that time in my life, how I saw the world at that time in my life, which was very practical and logical and really through a completely different lens. And I have this very long exchange with this admissions counselor trying to get every question answered and taking on what I was perceiving as being a burden of a master's program while I'm working a 60-hour a week job in this really intense high pressure corporate environment. And she finally said to me, "Hey Donna, why don't we do this, just for one week and see." And those were such magical words, right? It's like that, when I think about it, time stopped in that moment as I was being invited into making such an important decision in my life. Yeah. Alyssa Scolari [11:06]: Yeah. Right? That one weekend. And it's that feeling and I know so well and I can see all of the emotion in your face, but I know the listeners can't see this, but I can see it and I resonate so deeply with that feeling of like it's almost like it hits you and you're like oh, this is it. Is that like along the lines of what you were feeling? Donna Bond [11:35]: Yes and no. Truthfully at that time in my life, there was not one bone in this body. There is not one cell in this membrane that had a belief system, that there was anything else that could be possible for me in my life other than what I had. And where I had already achieved the status and the success that I had grown over nearly almost 30 years. It was like oh, I was earning a certain level of income and I had a certain level of status and a certain level of respect and prestige that I had earned coming up through the ranks in my career. And there was nothing in this body that thought that that would be possible to recreate a whole another career in my life at the age of 45, which was when this all started. So there was a whole, there was this call to do this, but truthfully I did not know why. I did not know. I did not know why there was nothing logical about it. Alyssa Scolari [12:49]: So it's almost like for the first 45 years of your life, you were walking around with a very myopic view on what your world was and nothing, you couldn't see beyond. You had essentially blinders to other possibilities in your world. And I really appreciate the fact that you are sharing this happened when I was 45 years old because I think that there are so many people out there. And I know that there are people who are listening that get to a point in their lives, I think much like you're describing where they're like well, here I am. This is my life. I can't see any other possibilities. Right? I've been working as a nurse for the last 20 years and this is what it is. And deep down, right, they're burying feelings of but there's more. There has to be more than this. And of course it comes out in physical ways. Right? And a lot of times what we do is we go oh, I'm getting old. I got a frozen shoulder. Yup. That's me. Right? I'm getting old. Instead of saying, right, what is my body telling me? So I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I didn't mean to interrupt, so continue. You can go on but I loved so much in what you just said that I'm like yes, it's so important for you to be sharing this because it's never too late. Donna Bond [14:22]: It's never too late. And I'm 53 now and my new career is taking off. Right? It's launching. I am having more fun than I have ever had in my life. And it's been a journey. So I enrolled myself in this program and ignored my frozen shoulder for the better part of a year until I quite literally couldn't lift my arm. And when I finally reconciled with what was going on with my shoulder and decided to actually address it, I had an experience where I was, I have to call it divine intervention because there's really no other way to call it. But I was on my way to the Ritz-Carlton Global Leadership Conference. I was on an airplane. My shoulder was stuck. I mean, it was in so much pain, visibly swollen from the neglect. And I'm going to a conference where I'm going to drink too much and I'm not going to sleep and I'm going to abuse my body even further. Alyssa Scolari [15:31]: Right. Donna Bond [15:31]: And I was reading a book called Finding Your Element by Ken Robinson. And I was really excited about this book because I've been looking for my element my whole life. Alyssa Scolari [15:46]: Yeah. That's the very thing you've been searching for, right? Donna Bond [15:52]: And I'm reading and he's talking about how we play it safe. And he's using all these metaphors and these analogies and he uses Mark Twain's metaphor, "20 years from now, you're going to be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than you by the things that you did do." So sail away from the safe harbor, throw off the battle lines, explore, dream, discover. I think I just twisted that around, but you get my drift. And so as I'm reading this, all of a sudden, I feel like there's this emotion that is bubbling up inside of me. And then there's another line that says "What lies behind us and what lie before us are tiny matters compared to what lie within us." And that's a Ralph Waldo Emerson. Alyssa Scolari [16:40]: One of my favorites. Donna Bond [16:41]: But now, I feel like this emotion has moved its way up into my chest. And then I get to the clincher, this little eight liner that is by the poet Elizabeth Appell called Risk. That poem is often attributed to Anais Nin, but she didn't actually write it. And then the day came when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. And when I read that, Alyssa, my shoulder was the bud. My shoulder was that bud. And I just had this out of body experience as I was on this airplane suddenly having complete and utter clarity that I needed to leave my job. At this point still, there's not one bone in my body that thinks I'm going to be a coach, that even... This is not anywhere in my spirit, it's not in my radar, it's not in my consciousness. But I'm going to quit my job. And I just get this dose of clarity around this. And even though I don't have a clue or a plan, I am clear that this is what needs to happen. And so I go to this conference and an important part of the story that I didn't mention earlier was that as I'm evolving in this program, in spiritual psychology, I'm doing a lot of exploring of my consciousness and sort of testing out the laws of the universe. And I was doing an experiment where I was asking the universe to bring me an apple. And right before I left on this trip, I had sort of demanded the universe bring me an apple. Very random, no attachment to this whatsoever. I couldn't care less whether this happens or it doesn't happen. Alyssa Scolari [18:45]: Almost like you were testing the waters a little bit? Donna Bond [18:47]: Yes. Yes. So I had thrown this out there, right? So I had this experience on the plane, go through this conference. It's the very last night of this conference. And my name was called to the stage where I am the recipient of the Western Regional Marketing Achievement Award for the third consecutive year in a row. And as I'm walking back to my table with this award in my hand, I'm even more grounded in my knowing that I'm out. I'm done. I've had an amazing career. I'm so proud of all that I've done and all of the gifts that this has given me and even though I have no idea what's next, I know I'm done. I'm done here. Well, I sit down at my place setting and served before me is dessert. And it is this incredibly elaborate apple dessert with apple confit and green apple sorbet. And apple this and apple that. And because it was with the Ritz-Carlton, they don't miss a beat, there was a menu card. So there was no mistaking what this was that had just been set before me because the menu card is now describing in great detail this apple dessert. And so I sat there at that table and just let the tears roll down my face as I became aware in that moment of the part of me that is so much greater than anything that I have given myself credit for. Right? Than any of my belief systems or upbringing or conditioning or patterning that there is this other part of me that is absolutely indefinitely connected to the infinite universe and the intelligence that is everywhere. And it was like I collided with that. And it was fantastic. Alyssa Scolari [21:07]: I'm sure- Donna Bond [21:09]: And it changed everything. Alyssa Scolari [21:09]: ... that in itself felt like an outer body experience. Donna Bond [21:12]: Without question. Without question. Alyssa Scolari [21:14]: I mean, I have head to toe chills. When we're recording this, it's like the hottest day that we've had so far in summer over here in Pennsylvania. But I am covered in goosebumps from head to toe because that, it's beautiful. I don't have any other words that can do it justice. It's just, you sought out the universe and the universe said hey, I'm opening my arms to you. And I love that. So did you end up quitting your job? Donna Bond [21:47]: I ended up quitting my job. Yes. That happened in March. I actually resigned. Well, I actually ended up going out on a medical leave of absence and having shoulder surgery and through my healing journey with my shoulder, I got clear about well, what am I going to do next? Because I needed to earn an income, right? That was a piece of it for me. So I decided to become a marketing consultant. And I thought I would pitch the Ritz-Carlton on hiring me to train my replacement to take my role as the director of sales and marketing there. So I ended up resigning in October of 2014 and I worked as a marketing consultant for about a year and a half. And still there was nothing in me that really believed that I was going to be sitting in these sacred, intimate conversations one on one with people being given a sacred opportunity to help them solve problems in their life and live into their next level of potential. But the universe kind of tricked me into it. And that's true. Alyssa Scolari [23:16]: Yeah. So it's almost... Right. So it's almost like you had no idea where all of this was taking you. You just knew it was time to change, but you were going with it, right? You were surrendering to wherever it was that you were being led to. Donna Bond [23:34]: Yes. Yeah. Alyssa Scolari [23:36]: Which is a hard thing to do. Let's not gloss over that because just being able to surrender itself, it's very hard to do. Donna Bond [23:46]: It's really hard. And then, I think first of all, I guess I have to say that I could not have done this without the support that I had through this master's program at the University of Santa Monica. And really being wrapped in this container of not only loving, but this belief in me when I couldn't believe in myself. Right? There was like this template that was being held for what was possible. And that's why I love coaching so much. Right? Is because we get that partnership and you've got a partner who is believing in you when all else fails. Alyssa Scolari [24:40]: Yes, yes. Donna Bond [24:43]: Yeah. Alyssa Scolari [24:43]: I mean, I actually have a coach that I work with and that's exactly what it is. It's at the end of the day knowing there's somebody there who's still going to wrap you in safety and comfort and support along this journey. Donna Bond [25:01]: Yeah. [crosstalk 00:25:02] so there's a lot of surrender They are. They are. And I definitely went through an undoing because my whole life was about my job and who I was at my job and who I was was my job. So there was a lot of identity crisis. There was a lot of ego death, right? Of just unraveling all of that. And this all happened within the context of my marriage and, which is still alive and healthy and beautiful and supportive and all of those amazing things, which is whole other story and a whole other interview. Truly because that's a whole other book. Alyssa Scolari [25:53]: Yes. Donna Bond [25:55]: I said yes to one thing at a time. And I guess for the people who are listening, that's a really helpful way when we're being asked to surrender. It's like you don't have to surrender to everything all at once, you just have to surrender what's in front of you right now. And that is basically what I did. It's like I took one little step out of my comfort zone. I took one little step in the direction of kind of where I wanted to go and then I let the universe fill in the blanks. And once I took that one little step, then the next step got revealed. The next step didn't get revealed till I was willing to take that first step. Right? So there's this give and take with the universe that I think is so important that we can't opt out. Right? We got to stay in the game. We have to participate in our own forward motion. We can make a move and then the universe is going to meet us there and we can make another move and the universe is going to meet us there. But the universe isn't going to meet us until make the first. Alyssa Scolari [27:15]: Yes. It's almost a mutual respect. Right? It's a mutual trust that's forming. I think the way you're describing it, it's very, very beautiful and more accurate than what I've seen it described. Or as I think a lot of people think that it's like well, if I ask for it, it's all mine. Right? And that's where I think things like manifestation sort of get taken... They take off, right? People take them to unrealistic heights because it doesn't work like that. Right? You don't sit down and write on a piece of paper I want a Mercedes Benz and a $6 million home and a $58 million yacht. Donna Bond [27:57]: And then you go sit on the couch. Alyssa Scolari [27:59]: Yes. Yes, exactly. So the way you're describing it as is very, very beautiful. Donna Bond [28:08]: Thank you. Yeah. So that's what I did. It was one step at a time. And I was in the, my master's is in spiritual psychology with an emphasis in consciousness, health and healing. And when I was going through the consciousness, health and healing part of the program, we had to do a service project that was like donating. I can't remember the number exactly. It's like 56 hours of our time in service. And I had come through a mentality where time is money. Right? You don't do anything unless you're getting paid for it. So this was a really big opening for me in what is service? What does service mean and what does it mean to have a service consciousness? Right? And I think people sometimes mix up the difference between service and servitude, right? We are making ourselves available to something and we're doing that from a place of wholeness, from a place of giving, but not from a place of depleting ourselves or betraying ourselves. Even that word comes word forward fo me. Alyssa Scolari [29:31]: Yes. Donna Bond [29:32]: So my service project that I had birthed in my mind was that I was going to assist women who had small businesses. Actually a lot of coaches and healers and facilitators, I was going to assist them with growing their business and teaching them a little bit about marketing and giving them some more self-confidence. And this was the idea that I had. And one afternoon sitting around a pool at the Ohio Valley and Spa, I was with one of my girlfriends who was also in this program with me. And she said, well, can I be your first person? Right? Can I be the first person that you give these service hours to? And I said absolutely. It would be my honor to support you. I would love that. Well, when I turned in this project to the University of Santa Monica, it got denied that my service project was not going to fulfill the requirement or what I needed to do for my master's. However, I had already made this commitment, right, to this woman that I would assist her. And so I'm a woman of my word, right? I really operate with a good amount of integrity. So I basically said to myself, well, even though I had to now still find something else to meet this 56-hour requirement, I'm going to help her. I'm going to still help this woman. And that's where the magic happens. Because when I sat down with her and got myself out of the way, it opened myself to be a channel for the divine and the universe was working through me in a way that was extraordinary and magical and beautiful and loving and compassionate and accepting and extraordinary on all of these incredible levels. And that is how I was invited into gifts that I had that really were laying dormant within me. And I had to put myself into a position that maybe I wouldn't have normally put myself in to be able to discover those gifts. Alyssa Scolari [32:12]: Yeah. As you're sharing your story, I can't help but think to myself what a magical transformation. It's been eight years, right? Donna Bond [32:22]: Eight years. Alyssa Scolari [32:23]: What a magical transformation. Eight years, even though it may seem like a long time, it's so quick, especially for such a drastic change in essentially the way you view the world around you. It's like a rebirth. It's like being reborn and it's powerful. Eight years. Eight years. Donna Bond [32:49]: Well, it's so funny that you're saying this because yesterday I was speaking with somebody and we were talking about the significance of a seven-year cycle. And so I had hung out a shingle, right, as a marketing consultant initially upon resigning my position. And I did that for a year. And on June 30th, a year into that, I made the decision to become a full time professional coach. And that meant saying no to any marketing gigs that might be coming my way. And so I have just completed that seven year cycle of being a full-time professional coach. And just as a side note, because we love the universe and it's always inviting us to learn and grow, right after I made this commitment. Right? Like I'm a full time professional coach now. It's my one and only. That's what I'm doing. Didn't I get a call for a big fat job. Alyssa Scolari [34:01]: Oh, of course. Of course. Donna Bond [34:01]: In marketing. Big fat job. Alyssa Scolari [34:04]: Because you were universe being, if it weren't testing you. Of course. Donna Bond [34:11]: Yeah. So I said no and it was so ama... And listen, make no mistake, I needed the money. Let's be clear. But I said no and that was fuel for the universe to help me align with where I was. And it all started there. Alyssa Scolari [34:40]: It's incredible. I love hearing these things because it's like it gives me life because there's so much power to this. There's so much strength and right. Touching on, even just saying like make no mistake, I needed the money, right? And I also think that's something so many of us say. In fact, I found myself saying that last night, right? I am feeling at a place in my life where I feel very called to slow down and I'm getting signs like the universe was just hitting me over the head with signs that I need to slow down. And of course, I'm so good at finding all reasons to not slow down. And I also don't want to gloss over how difficult that is for so many people to go, yes, I need the money. Yes, I have a family to provide for. Yes, I need X. Yes, I can't do this because of X, Y, Z, whatever. To stop, to turn all that off and to just say no, no, because this doesn't feel right for me. That is incredible. I just give you all of the accolades for being able to do that. Donna Bond [35:57]: Ca I share something about what you're saying? Alyssa Scolari [35:59]: Please. Donna Bond [36:00]: Coming from somebody who had a regular direct deposit paycheck every two weeks, right, for 28 years, there was a lot of mindset shifts that really needed to take place as I became an entrepreneur and became responsible for generating my own income. I live in Southern California, right? It's not cheap here. Alyssa Scolari [36:23]: Right. Exactly. Donna Bond [36:24]: So one of the things that I became aware of and one of the things that is really in my teachings, in my book, Original Wisdom: Harness The Power of The Authentic You is about energy and that energy of doing, the energy of pushing and the striving and the going and the foreseen and the doing, that is an energy of contraction. It's an energy of compression. It's an energy to heavier denser energy. And when we're in that energy, it's harder to let things come into our experience. So it became very present in my consciousness that when I am feeling the energy of lightness and freedom and joy, that is an energy that is more open and more expansive. That is an energy of allowing, that is energy of receiving. And so I began to do this experiment with myself where I would take a Tuesday, right? In the middle of the week, in the middle of the month, I would take a Tuesday and I would just go play. It didn't matter. Let's be clear. I have 101,000 things at my desk that could and should be done, but I would take a Tuesday and I'd find a girlfriend and I would go goof off. And I would do this intentionally because I wanted to shift the energy. And in so doing invariably, I would get a call on my way home from somebody who's looking to start a six month coaching journey or somebody who was inviting me onto their podcast or somebody who needs me to come into their corporation and consult. It never fails. Alyssa Scolari [38:29]: Never fails. You're so right. Donna Bond [38:33]: So I just, I love to break ourselves out of the monotony of physical world reality and how we get trapped in our own BS. Right? There is always a different way and we have the power and the choice to invite ourselves into that. Alyssa Scolari [38:58]: Yes we do. And it's not easy, but it's so worth it. I think the other question that I wanted to ask you and I'll ask you this before I also ask where folks can find you and things like that, but is it safe to say that this process can also be a bit, not cyclical, but I don't find, at least for me, and maybe it's different for you that it's as easy as once you enter into the path of letting the universe guide you and saying no and saying yes and doing what feels right and creating more space for more play, more positive energy, you still can get stuck. Because you've spent so many years of your life doing things one way and then sometimes it can be tough. Right? Is that the case for you where you do have moments where you're like, oh, I can sense there's some bad energy. I need to kind of get things right again. It's not just sort of like, well, everything's rainbows and puppies and butterflies now that I've made this decision, right? Donna Bond [40:14]: Alyssa, are you talking about being human? Alyssa Scolari [40:19]: I might be. I might be. Donna Bond [40:21]: Yeah. Well, I think that's what we're talking about. And yes, right? So here's how I see it. We want everything to be linear because that's how we think the world works in our logical left brain- Alyssa Scolari [40:38]: Right. That's what makes sense in our brains. Donna Bond [40:39]: ... and our [crosstalk 00:40:39] Right? Alyssa Scolari [40:38]: Yes. Donna Bond [40:38]: We want everything to have a clear beginning and a clear end. We want us to go in a straight line. We want to know all the steps and the return on the investment and how long it's going to take. But the truth is we live in an ever expanding universe and I believe that all growth and transformation and all of the forward motion of this ever expanding universe happens in a spiral. So every time we make a lap around the spiral, we go out a little bit more and we go up a little bit more. Right? So then we take another lap and we go out and we go up. Then we make another lap and we go out and we go up. And what happens, where I see it, is there's like little sticky patches along the spiral. Right? And then you just made another lap. And you've been here before, you might have a little bit of a different perspective and there's still something for you to learn. Alyssa Scolari [41:47]: Yes. Donna Bond [41:48]: So it's like you have a choice right there to open yourself and to be able to see what is your [inaudible 00:41:58] What can I learn from this? How might I grow from this experience, person, circumstance, trauma, right? Whatever it is. Or are we going to shut ourselves down, lock in, close up. Right? And we hop into that story as well. So I think what you're saying is very, very real. I know that as long as we are in these human bodies, on this human adventure, we will continue to have those sticky places along the spiral. And transformation is about changing our relationship to something. And so if we can begin to change our relationship to how we relate to ourselves and how we relate to the world when we're going through a difficult period, that right there can bestow many gifts. Alyssa Scolari [43:08]: Yeah. You're absolutely right. And I also have to say as somebody who's a very visual person, I am deeply appreciative of that visual that you provided because that is exactly what I was trying to say and that is exactly how it feels. And I also think that it's very, very important to point that out because it really is a lifelong process. Donna Bond [43:33]: It is a lifelong process. Alyssa Scolari [43:37]: So now, what we heard from you today, is that just a snippet of all the things that can be found in your book because your book, it's a memoir, correct? Donna Bond [43:49]: Yes. It's a teaching memoir. Alyssa Scolari [43:51]: Well, yes. And because it also has a lot of nuggets of wisdom in there about ways to move through this process and for people to be able to start their own journey. Donna Bond [44:05]: It is definitely my journey and I did not set out to write a book. I actually set out to create a workshop, which I did. And over time, I wanted more stories that could support the teaching point that I was trying to make in my workshop. And before I realized it, I had so many stories that what I was describing literally was all of my experiences on my own transformational journey. And a little bit of rearranging with how the workshop went and it was suddenly like, oh, this is like my whole journey from beginning to end and how it all happened. And so in each chapter, there's all sorts of fun, synchronistic serendipity. I don't really believe in coincidence. I believe that everything happens for a reason. And that, of course there is a lot of deeper meaning to our life and our existence. And so I've got all of those fun nuggets in there. And I offer an opportunity for transformation at the end of every chapter. So this is really inviting the reader to have their own experience with whatever the teaching point is. And so I give you the chance to engage with life, right? To take what you've learned and really apply it in your life in some way because that's really the only way that we learn. And that's the beauty of the University of Santa Monica and the programs that they deliver there is they are experiential learning. And this masters is not just something that wound up in my head, right? It's in my body. I embody this work because I lived it, because I took all of what they were teaching and I applied it to my real life in a very, very real way. And I got the feedback from life, from the universe. So I offer these opportunities for transformation, as well as something that I call a sacred truth activation. And these sacred truth activations are a series of affirmations designed to invigorate your spirit, to really call upon that authentic power that you have inside of you that is your original wisdom, right? My definition of original wisdom is the inherent intelligence in all beings that is rooted in unconditional love. Alyssa Scolari [46:59]: I love that. That definition itself feels like a warm hug to me. Donna Bond [47:04]: Yeah. Thank you. Alyssa Scolari [47:07]: I love it. I love it. So if people would like to work with you, purchase your book, where can people find you and where's the best place to be able to purchase your book? Is it just on Amazon or is it in other bookstores as well? Donna Bond [47:23]: It's everywhere. Alyssa Scolari [47:24]: [crosstalk 00:47:24] supporting small businesses. Donna Bond [47:26]: Yeah, thank you. It's everywhere. And you can go to donnabond.com/podcast and I have a gift for your listeners, four ways to get unstuck, which actually talks about the spiral and sort of what happens at each of the stages on the spiral. So if that is of interest and if they would like a signed copy of my book, they can get it there. And of course, it's available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble and all of the book places in the world. Alyssa Scolari [48:01]: Oh, that was fantastic. Thank you so much. So to the listeners, all of this will be included in the show notes. And I think the last thing I want to say is I know that you have just said that there are no coin... Right? You don't believe in coincidences and I do not either. And I have found that as somebody who... I started this podcast a year ago and this podcast is very much about... It's about interviewing other people and it's about learning about trauma and healing and all of the things that go along with that. But I'm also very, very open and transparent with the listeners and folks about my own journey to recovery from complex PTSD and an eating disorder. And looking at the head space I was in last night, which was not a very good one to say the least, I am always so surprised that when I hop on for an interview, that topic and the conversation always sort of takes me exactly where I need to be for a shift, for a message, for whatever needs to happen within myself. I'm always learning that through conversations exactly like the one that you and I are having. So thank you so much for- Donna Bond [48:01]: Me too. Alyssa Scolari [49:26]: ... teaching. Yeah. Donna Bond [49:27]: Me too. Yeah. Alyssa Scolari [49:29]: It's a beautiful thing. It really is. So I'm really, really grateful for your vulnerability, for the realism that you share and what this process and journey is like because it's not all rainbows and puppies and butterflies. It's scary and it's beautiful and terrifying all at the same time. And still even knowing all of that, once you've started the journey, you can never go back and you wouldn't have it any other way. So thank you so much. To the listeners, again, you will find everything you need in the show notes to learn more about Donna, to check her out, to read her book. I really appreciate your time today. Donna Bond [50:21]: Alyssa, thank you. It's really been my honor to be here with you. Thank you. Alyssa Scolari [50:26]: Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are @LightAfterTrauma and on Twitter, it is @LightAfterPod. Lastly, please head over to at patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So please head on over. Again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you and we appreciate your support. [singing]

Hello and welcome to Episode 10, of “Hope Beyond Brokenness.” Today we are going to explore the link between hope and forgiveness. During our study on “Hope Beyond Brokenness” I asked myself the question: Does forgiveness -or unforgiveness-affect or have an impact on hope? So, naturally, I Googled the question and found there had actually been research done on the topic which said “yes” forgiveness can affect hope. Now, that's what scientists discovered and I thought that was interesting from a scientific perspective. However, I wanted to consider what the Bible said about how forgiving someone can positively impact hope or conversely not forgiving can negatively impact hope. My name is Stephanie Wright. Let's explore this topic.If you would like to share your story of hope beyond brokenness email us at cgmpresents@gmail.com. We can be reached on Facebook at CGM Podcast International and our handle for Twitter and Instagram is @cgmissions, and  for YouTube is cgmissions. We are a 501(c)(3) nonprofit. Donations may be sent through CashApp to: $cgmissions

About this Episode View the full show notes here: https://www.thelindberghs.com/74    Hi friends, it's Lyn.   When I first started dating Erik almost eight years ago I did what any smart women does, I Googled him. Among his search results were a TEDx talk, a Wikipedia page calling him an American Aviator, and images of him standing on the wing of a small airplane raising his arms in victory. My favorite image was of him laying on his stomach on the ground next to that same plane giving the ground a kiss.   Over the coming months I learned that these were images of his 75th Anniversary flight where he flew a single engine plane from New York to Paris solo to recreate his Grandfather's Flight. This flight was one piece of a larger story that helped jump-start the private space flight industry that we are seeing often in the news today.   In today's episode, I had the opportunity to interview Erik along side his publicist Diane Murphy. I met Diane at my first XPRIZE Visioneering event. At the time I was finishing my 20th year as a corporate employee in a soul-sucking job. The people at Visioneering were so much more alive, vibrant, and excited to network and connect. These were my people! It was such a contrast to my current corporate management role where I constantly felt like I had to keep my personality partially under-wraps because I was too much, too loud, too optimistic, too happy. Diane was one of the amazing people I met and it was at this event that I realized I wasn't a complete weirdo. There was a world filled with humans that are full of life who also believed that problems are solvable and optimism is critical. It felt great!   I went into this interview with Diane and Erik thinking it would be a rehash of history I had already heard a billion times. I left the interview reminded of how important human connections are and how making connections with others is what typically changes the trajectory of our lives. I left feeling a greater sense of accountability to my own ability to help others make connections in their own lives.   This interview has pushed me to think more about the larger topic of networking and how the advantage goes to the person who has the connections. Proximity is everything. It reminded me to take the connections I have seriously and to help others also make connections with others. I've been thinking about this a lot.   I hope you enjoy this interview and it also inspires you to look at the resources and connections you have and remember they are powerful tools to help others make the word a better place.   Sincerely, Lyn     Our Favorite Quotes from this Episode   What do I do? I chase stories. When you look at a story, you have to look at different tiers. When you add the personal element into a story, this is what makes the story. ~Diane   The numbers were staggering. We did 2,000 print stories, 1,700 radio and TV stories. This was before Social Media which was amazing. There were 1,000 internet stories which is amazing because this was before people really used the internet. ~Diane   We started practicing for your interviews. We went through every single possible question. I wasn't trying to change Erik's response, I was trying to get him to have clarity with his answers. ~Diane   That's the value of practicing in advance. You never should have to be thinking in the moment. Practice help this. ~Diane   I was hustler, I was a single mother of two kids and I needed money, and I wanted to be somebody. You can learn to take risks, and you can learn to chase those risks. I have no interest in taking on a client where everything is fine and good. All of my clients are doing something that nobody has done before. This is what excites me, this is what leads you to interesting people. Interesting people lead you into many, many, many different and interesting directions. ~Diane   When goes out of their way, your circle gets bigger, and your ripples get bigger. ~Diane   If I inspire one person by doing what I did, it's all worth it. ~Diane     Mentioned in this Episode Charles Lindbergh 75th Anniversary Flight from New York to Paris Le Bourget Airport in Paris XPRIZE Greg A. Maryniak Peter Diamandis Mark Arnold Ditch and egress training The Arthritis Foundation The Lindbergh Foundation Jay Inslee Lancair Aircraft Dan Cotes: Us Ambassador to Germany at the Time of this Story. Northrop Grumman The 100th Anniversary of Charles Lindbergh's 1927 Flight ***** Season 4 of The Lindberghs Podcast was made possible by The Lindbergh Foundation. http://lindbergh.aero/   The Lindberghs Podcast is a production of Erik Lindbergh and his wife Lyn Lindbergh.   Erik is the Chairman of The Lindbergh Foundation, Executive Chair of VerdeGo AERO, and an expert back country skier. Https://www.eriklindbergh.com Https://www.verdegoaero.com Lyn is an award winning author, Host of The Health and Fitness Motivation Podcast, Founder of Couch to Active, and Creator of ListeningSkills.Shop, and Executive Producer of this podcast. Https://www.couchtoactive.com/podcast Https://www.couchtoactive.com https://www.listeningskills.shop

Pastor Bill: [0:20] Hello and welcome to The Berean Manifesto Season 3 episode 44; Faith, Hope, and Love for the Modern Christian. We are recording this live on Sunday the September 12th, at 1:30 p.m. Central Standard time, and if you wanted you could join us on Sundays. We broadcast this live to Facebook, Twitch, and YouTube. And you can find out which channels on Twitch, YouTube, and Facebook by going to ekk.house h-o-u-s-e .house. And then you can join us and you can see our lovely faces. Not that our faces matter like Newms keeps saying. Newms would rather we not even do a video version of this but you know - that's neither here nor there and you can.   Pastor Newms: [1:20] Don't you like my face.   Pastor Bill: [1:22] And you can be a part of the conversation in the chat and yeah so then it becomes less of you're just listening to what we're saying and more you can actually input if you wanted to, if you didn't want to input you wouldn't have to that'd be fine too, but we would like to have as many people as possible join us live so that we get actual you know conversations going and it's not just us, you know speaking out to you but you're a part of what's going on so.   Pastor Newms: [1:55] Yes more of a discussion which is what we've always tried to focus on not.   Pastor Bill: [2:01] Yeah so how was your week pastor Newms?   Pastor Newms: [2:04] What works pretty good it's been very busy, trying to wrap up one position and move towards the next in my professional life so it's been very very busy so, yeah that's um that's always fun and then started playing a game that I played a long time ago and, k   Pastor Bill: [2:35] Wasn't that the week before last when we start playing like it now that was this week was.   Pastor Newms: [2:38] It was this week and then we actually did our first Gaming With The Pastor's stream, and that was fun. It lasted about four hours till some time in the morning that is way past both our bed times because we roll.   Pastor Bill: [2:59] Way back and then I stayed up another hour.   Pastor Newms: [3:03] You told me 30 minutes.   Pastor Bill: [3:06] Hmm it was 3 a.m. didn't we didn't reach off the game at two oh so 30 minutes then another 30 minutes.   Pastor Newms: [3:10] No it was 2:30 I was like hmm how late did you really stay up.   Pastor Bill: [3:17] No no I did I turned it off at three and then I was I was in bed by 3:15 which is still for me at my age just way too late yeah.   Pastor Newms: [3:41] Or she switched one of the other.   Pastor Bill: [3:44] Or she switched over from one to the other she says she's at a subway and I asked her to bring me a meatball sub because if you don't know that, Roxanne on Facebook and Bat-Brains on YouTube that's my wife and she's out with the girls and the Finnick today they were looking at Halloween costumes and doing some Halloween shopping because it's a big it's a big holiday for us you know. And we celebrate it as much as we can and then Biggs asked if she would bring him a meatball sub too. She said she'd meet him halfway which he's saying is Little Rock, Arkansas.   Pastor Newms: [4:21] Huh it is that is the halfway point between our two places.   Pastor Bill: [4:25] And I honestly hope she's joking because I don't think we can afford the gas right now to drive to little rocking.   Pastor Newms: [4:33] If you're going to drive to Little Rock and she comes halfway to where we live without you, can you imagine how salty you would be when you realized she was halfway to my house and you didn't get to go the rest of the way you know I think you'd be pretty salty.   Pastor Bill: [4:52] Biggs can you imagine the Uber Eats bill to drive a meatball sub from the Metroplex to Little Rock, Arkansas?   Pastor Newms: [5:01] And it's not like we don't have Subway it's the funniest thing for him to request.   Pastor Bill: [5:08] Hmm yeah this funny you get me a meatball sub and drive it to Nashville or halfways fine I'll meet you halfway you know.   Pastor Newms: [5:19] Biggs on the upside he actually the chip issues they were having with the braking systems Nissan is over at the moment so he actually gets to return back to work tomorrow which is.   Pastor Bill: [5:33] I assumed it was since I got my computer.   Pastor Newms: [5:36] Well so the shortage is not over.   Pastor Bill: [5:43] But better.   Pastor Newms: [5:44] But better and we'll see where it ends up because at first it was the chips for the onboard computers, which caused the issue and that also caused her issue and then it was, because of a different part for the braking systems which was different and now like he's mentioning they are day to day at the Nissan here and up in Smyrna Tennessee and we will continue to pray they get all the parts they need and, no other natural disaster or pandemic, people are saying it's moved from a pandemic to a whatever the next stage is.   Pastor Bill: [6:28] There's a stage after pandemic.   Pastor Newms: [6:29] A pandemic is like a sudden onset and you know it's it's and then it should go away and then you have.   Pastor Bill: [6:38] So they're calling it a plague now.   Pastor Newms: [6:40] No no a plague is technically a type of pandemic but it's like an endemic or something like it's like what the flu is where it just never goes away it's just different all the time. I read something that I'm trying to change that to stop referring to it as a pandemic because it's not going anywhere. Which of course is frustrating to read anywhere and your video is frozen but your audio is coming through great so I'm not sure.   Pastor Bill: [7:14] Yeah your your video is Frozen as well and what I'm receiving on my phone, I'm pretty sure I'm on the correct Wi-Fi.   Pastor Newms: [7:24] Well you can check because we won't know though yeah an updated right as you check that's always fun.   Pastor Bill: [7:29] I can't get it to there ago yeah I'm on the cellular instead of the so should be on the right thing.   Pastor Newms: [7:34] Well you know yeah it's real bad quality but luckily we'll fix that.   Pastor Bill: [7:40] Anyway we can't fix video and.   Pastor Newms: [7:45] No but the podcast the voices will be great in even if it hiccups because of how we're doing it now technically we're not dealing with any for the podcast it's just the video isn't always perfect which happens.   Pastor Bill: [7:59] Yeah the videos the only thing we're actually broadcasting right now, because or rather recording we're broadcasting the voice to the live video but then by the time the podcast comes out I record my audio now to my computer that I have leveling named Bertha, this is Big Bertha down here.   Pastor Newms: [8:20] Please please please explain what Big Bertha is because when you first told me I was like that is so insensitive and then you explain to me what Big Bertha actually is not just a big lady named Bertha.   Pastor Bill: [8:36] Growing up I was a fan of Super Mario Brothers and in Super Mario Brothers you find a bunch of different bad guys and one of the hostels the bad guys the species is called cheap cheap and then of these fish, and one of the fishes is named Big Bertha and she's just giant Cheep Cheep that when you're running through the level she comes up to the surface and she goes back and forth across the bottom of the screen waiting for you to fall into the water so she can then attack you. And that's Big Bertha and she's just giant fish beautiful giant fish I love her she's like my favorite hostile in all of Super Mario Brothers fandom, and so yeah so Big Bertha is this giant fish that is very difficult to, take down to defeat and you don't have to defeat her you can just jump past her and sometimes I like to just stand on a platform and watch her swim back and forth underneath me. Now on a side note they did come out with a Super Mario Brothers movie and they did cast someone as a Big Bertha.   [9:52] And it was a large black woman but that's not the point nor is it what I've named my computer after I made my computer after the video game, character Big Bertha not the Mario movie character Big Bertha.   [10:12] Anyway now you're looking it up why are you looking it up.   Pastor Newms: [10:15] Cuz I did not remember a big oh, the bouncer at the Boom Boom bar.   Pastor Bill: [10:22] The bouncer at the Boom Boom bar is Big Bertha.   Pastor Newms: [10:25] That explains why I looked up one of the stickers of the cheap cheap that you were looking at has her and it because I was like who is this person sitting next to this fish in this thing that I looked up the Super Mario Brothers from 1993 is a very interesting piece of cinematic.   Pastor Bill: [10:50] You pretty much have to be a fan of Super Mario Brothers to enjoy it but then also if you're a fan of Super Mario Brothers you're going to hate it so it's that whole you know the whole love-hate relationship thing.   Pastor Newms: [11:04] Yeah it's a real interesting the movie, the sway is what gets me in that movie.   Pastor Bill: [11:13] Of the Goombas.   [11:21] And then it's fun that they D-evolved King Koopa from a human form and he just becomes a T-Rex, that's so much fun they're like straight-up were like yeah King Koopa was a T-Rex just that's what it is that's why they got those little arms and that's why so angry he just he's a T-Rex.   Pastor Newms: [11:39] But they didn't have shells and he has a show.   Pastor Bill: [11:43] I know I know.   Pastor Newms: [11:46] It was it was too I'm like I'm not going to complain about.   Pastor Bill: [11:50] Is Japanese artistic license.   [11:56] Right they give him a shell because it's artistic license he can have a shell anyway that's neither here nor there how was my week well now equals.   Pastor Newms: [12:03] Oh no no no wait wait wait I want to be clear I'm not mad that King Koopa has a shell.   Pastor Bill: [12:12] Oh you're mad that in the movie he didn't okay okay.   Pastor Newms: [12:16] I'm not I'm not like dinosaurs have to be accurate in every way they're portrayed but don't portray a thing with a shell who, you know, breathes fire and all this other stuff oh it's just a T-Rex and he's not just a t-rex t-rexes are cool not insulting T-Rexes but, he's not a T-Rex he's a Koopa that's the point.   Pastor Bill: [12:47] Coopa is the king of the Koopas and then they.   Pastor Newms: [12:52] And the daddy of a whole bunch of them.   Pastor Bill: [12:54] In that movie they pushed real hard about the mushrooms stuff the Mushroom Kingdom and the Mushroom Kingdom.   Pastor Newms: [13:00] Yeah.   Pastor Bill: [13:01] The fungus part of the king that was the fungus growing everywhere yeah it was a.   Pastor Newms: [13:08] He was special.   Pastor Bill: [13:12] All right so how was your week Pastor Bill my week was great this is the second week in a row of has to ask myself how my week was because you didn't ask me.   Pastor Newms: [13:24] I was getting a drink I'm sorry.   Pastor Bill: [13:27] So my new computer came in my Big Bertha, which I've ordered it that sticker Newms found me a sticker of a Big Bertha and see I couldn't find it because I was typing in Big Bertha and I couldn't find it and it was like but you know people are stupid so he typed in Super Mario Brothers fish and it came right up.   Pastor Newms: [13:50] Okay now to be clear that is not what I said what I said was, you were like I'm looking for a Big Bertha sticker I was like what the world is Big Bertha and you're like it's the fish from Super Mario Brothers you know you know I was like no I don't.   Pastor Bill: [14:05] Yeah you know the fish.   Pastor Newms: [14:07] Because I didn't know those things had even had names and so I Googled.   Pastor Bill: [14:12] Every bad guy.   Pastor Newms: [14:14] Mario enter nothing and I was like well I didn't know it was called Big Bertha Mario fish enter is it this where did you find that.   Pastor Bill: [14:26] Fire that and then it was just kind of cheap cheap and I was like well that's the species but that's not what the name of that character is yeah but all of them have names every character in the Mario games has a name everyone of.   Pastor Newms: [14:40] And in almost every character in almost every video game has the developers given names to which is like with a lot of movies you know extras certain of the extras have names you know that's Jon you're like why is it John because John doesn't have a single word.   Pastor Bill: [15:00] So this this is a little different at the end of Super Mario Brothers 3 when you beat the game, it starts playing music "dad dad dad dad dad did" the right did it end it end the bad guys come out one by one and it gives you their name, it actually tells you what their names are and so it's not just something.   Pastor Newms: [15:20] Which is kind of a cool thing.   Pastor Bill: [15:22] Yeah it's not just some of the developers thought up it's something the developers were like yes we're officially in game going to tell you who these characters are.   Pastor Newms: [15:31] Everything back then nowadays games are different because a lot of bad guys just it just says I'm ball put up above their head but even back then, everything was named you just didn't always know it like you were talking you were talking about your favorite Zelda, bad guy and I'm like I played the game like I didn't know the bad guy had a name who's the dinosaur bad guy like I don't know and you're like it's my favorite bad guy from this is this and I'm like, huh who from what I calm down dude anyway.   Pastor Bill: [16:14] Yeah so my computer came in and I order sticker to put right here on the side of.   Pastor Newms: [16:19] Yes.   Pastor Bill: [16:21] So we'll take a look down and see my Big Bertha with a sticker of Big Bertha on it I'm very excited.   Pastor Newms: [16:27] I understand that you are.   Pastor Bill: [16:30] Yeah and so yeah so my week has been full of and first off let me say I did not know that just trying to open the box of my computer was going to be a physical workout, literally just trying to get the Box open. Was a physical workout and made my muscles sore so crazy, is it operational yes my computer's operational we use it when we streamed yesterday the day before yesterday and, yeah I've got it running over here it's recording my voice my microphones running into it and then my phone is doing my video and then I'm typing on my laptop, typing on Discord on my laptop so I've got two computers running and a phone to run my setup right now fun fun.   Pastor Newms: [17:32] Yes.   Pastor Bill: [17:34] So my week has been setting up a computer and downloading programs and.   Pastor Newms: [17:39] What you haven't done in many years.   Pastor Bill: [17:44] Yeah and running cables and falling asleep under my desk and, you didn't see that post on Facebook I went down underneath my desk to plug in some cable, and then probably 20 or 30 minutes later Roxanne found me asleep using the subwoofer down there as a pillow, um I was just asleep down there fell asleep plugging in a cable.   Pastor Newms: [18:13] I typically don't use Facebook as much as I should quote unquote, because my friends are always like why I put it on Facebook and I'm like I check Facebook for like 15 minutes like Monday through Friday in the morning while I'm eating breakfast so when did you post it sorry must have got lost in all the other stuff like I'm like I don't know what's going on.   Pastor Bill: [18:42] And then my shoulder was all kinds of sore from laying on the you know fall asleep on the floor. It's just a piece of plywood.   Pastor Newms: [18:56] That's why I'm saying I was around when you replaced it.   Pastor Bill: [19:04] I think yeah that was how my week was so now it's time for getting to know the pastors Pastor Newms it's your week to pull out a card from your deck that you say is infinitely better than my deck so.   Pastor Newms: [19:19] I'll say infinitely I say better I can't prove infinite putting words in my mouth.   Pastor Bill: [19:53] Any object.   [20:02] One who would run the rides.   Pastor Newms: [20:04] You you're the you get it to yourself so if it's a thing that has to be operated those people would be there but they would not get to enjoy the park they'd be just standing around picking their nose to you get there like an.   Pastor Bill: [20:16] So I'm the only one that gets to enjoy it but but they'll be people are working.   Pastor Newms: [20:19] Right and it says to yourself well it doesn't specify you can't invite someone it just says to yourself.   Pastor Bill: [20:28] Hmm yeah it says object or place what Fang what I want or place what I want all to myself for one day.   Pastor Newms: [20:49] That's a rough one because the only thing I can think of is my own house, because I don't get to be by myself a lot because I, so Biggs on Twitch says he would like a Lamborghini for a day, Phoenix says Disney World for a day, a tank so I just like drive around a tank for a day, I don't know I wouldn't want a sports car something I'd end up wrecking and killing myself or something I don't I don't know.   Pastor Bill: [21:56] I can't think of anything.   Pastor Newms: [21:58] And see the problem is it says in the world if it didn't say in the world I'd say something like the TARDIS. Because a day Define 24-hour you know what I mean like once you've stolen the Tardis you guys are tired and like I haven't gotten back yet.   Pastor Bill: [22:17] You've got it the day is.   [22:27] That's yeah that's funny.   Pastor Newms: [22:32] Or the DeLorean same thing the DeLorean is more fun because that Mythos allows for time paradoxes whereas the doctor often doesn't, the Tardis doesn't so you could you know go back to, in time actually get Lotto numbers and change your your life as opposed to the Tardis somehow the doctor would show up and beat you for for it, Bill still trying to think we broke him this card broke him guys.   Pastor Bill: [23:10] I have no idea honestly I don't know.   Pastor Newms: [23:20] No I just thought of something that could actually be a thing and I would like The King The King Spa.   Pastor Bill: [23:30] I've ever been.   Pastor Newms: [23:31] I know but I love that place the thing I hate the most about it is there's so many people there, but just to be able to enjoy all those different saunas and the pool and the everything without people I think I would thoroughly enjoy that, how's it going I think I could get behind that yeah Final Answer yeah, that's my final answer and you still don't know.   Pastor Bill: [23:57] I still just I have no idea man. That's funny.   Pastor Newms: [24:13] What does that even mean.   Pastor Bill: [24:15] Rayne GFG.   [24:19] Are you mean emo amusement park I think it would be like a Nightmare Before Christmas themed with nothing but My Chemical Romance playing over the speakers all day long.   Pastor Newms: [24:31] I was going to say like like the black parade plus Tim Burton movies plus you know that could be cool I could be.   Pastor Bill: [24:40] Are not just the not the whole thing is the number for Christmas but they like like Disneyland does There's a Nightmare Before Christmas.   Pastor Newms: [24:46] Yeah.   Pastor Bill: [24:47] Neighborhood and there's a Edward Scissorhands neighborhood and there's like a Adams Family neighborhood you know.   [25:07] I think there's a lot of us that would enjoy to go there.   Pastor Newms: [25:10] I honestly think that there is some marketing potential there but it would be really, hard to pull off all the licensing and getting all of it in one place but I really think I could completely see in the paint the paint would be terrible painting everything black and keeping it black would be just awful but.   Pastor Bill: [25:34] We don't spend everything black you painted all you know how that universe is now that that world is so like in Edward Scissorhands everything is really bright except for his house, everything else in the world is really bright you know.   Pastor Newms: [25:51] Yeah that is true that's true.   Pastor Bill: [25:55] Anyway I don't I don't have an answer to the question so.   Pastor Newms: [26:01] It just sounds like you to design an amusement park now and that's where you'd want to be for the day.   Pastor Bill: [26:20] Oh you're so funny.   Pastor Newms: [26:23] I know.   Pastor Bill: [26:24] I've got a I got enough on my plate already I'm good okay so I think we're sufficiently warmed up.   Pastor Newms: [26:30] Yep we're at the 30-minute mark.   Pastor Bill: [26:32] So tonight we are talking about something that we've talked about it I don't want to say recently but we've talked about it since we started doing the, the podcast in this format where we record it live being content finding contentment and living in peace and I don't know I mean like, we didn't know what we were talking about tonight until probably four o'clock.   Pastor Newms: [27:07] Yeah we were we were struggling to figure it out definitely there wasn't.   Pastor Bill: [27:12] And I don't I don't ever want to force an idea you know if we have to have just a hangout and then we'll have a hangout night I'm not gonna Force you know.   [27:24] And so I just was listening and waiting on the Lord and listen to the Holy Spirit, which is a super abstract thing to do until I felt like I came across a subject that the Lord wanted us to talk about, and so here we are contentment and peace so the scripture that I used for the art comes from Philippians, chapter 4 and it's in verse 11, and summary 11 and then we'll go back and we'll talk about what Paul the situation Paul is talking about but this is one of those where, he was talking about specific things but then we can use that concept, to apply to different areas in our life right so in verse 11 he says and we're going to skip that first sentence it's Philippians chapter 4 verse 11 part B.   [28:35] For I've learned to be content in whatever circumstances I find myself, okay so that's what we're talking about being content in whatever circumstances and Paul specifically we're going to jump back to verse 10 and read down through 14.   [28:57] Once again Philippians chapter 4 starting in verse 10, I rejoiced in the Lord greatly because once again you renewed your care for me you were in fact concerned about me but lacked the opportunity to show it, don't say the set of Need for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I find myself, I know both how to make do with little and I know how to make do with a lot, in any and all circumstances I have learned the secret of being content, whether well fed or hungry whether in abundance or in need I am able to do all things through him who strengthens me, still you did well by partnering with me in my hardship all right.   [29:53] So basically he's saying you know you were once a financial supporter you help support my Ministry and then for a while there you couldn't something happened we don't know some happened where they couldn't support his ministry financially anymore, and it then they were again and he's basically you know making note thanking them for their financial support, um and he's going to this whole thing about you know I'm not thankful necessarily because I need it because I'm content whether I have stuff or not but I am thankful.   [30:31] For your partnering with, you know because it's not about a dollar it's not about a thousand dollars it's not about the amount and it's not about what you can get with the support it's about having that support creating that synergy, so that's what Paul is talking about but we're taking that concept, and thinking about how can we apply that to our lives today how can we be content in all of our circumstances because there's a lot of circumstances to not be content about right now right, corn teens and pandemics or in endemics or whatever you want to call them now, vaccinations Force vaccinations masks forced masks, poor Australia with what they're going through I mean that's that's taken things to a whole new level, I mean even if you either side of the way you see things about mandates and pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine, what's going on in Australia is is a whole new level of of interesting I have to say.   Pastor Newms: [31:51] I actually don't know what you're talking about so I have to look this up later.   Pastor Bill: [31:56] Okay so the government basically said you need to get the vaccine, or not leave your you not leave a certain amount of distance from your home, okay great well I still didn't curtail the spread so then they said okay well now you just need to stay in your home if you're not vaccinated okay so that's fine and then they said okay well now we're going to release a phone app, and the phone app you we want you to voluntarily take a picture of yourself, on this timetable schedule and the phone app will be able to tell us if you're infected or not.   Pastor Newms: [32:33] How okay.   Pastor Bill: [32:35] I don't know and now they are required to take a photo every 24 hours showing they are in their home and if they miss a check-in, then they will be issued a warrant for their arrest.   Pastor Newms: [32:56] Okay that is a little interesting.   Pastor Bill: [33:00] So I guess it is interesting it's a whole new level of something so.   [33:08] Content being content right, and it's not a concept that's easily done it's not comes up that's easily grasped it's not something that I can say well I figured this out and I want you to, send me $29.95 and I'll send you my book on how to figure out how to be content no this is a this is a real life you know this is real life, I'm working on issues Pastor Newms is working on issues we are constantly growing and learning and figuring things out and, um I'm not going to sit here and go well everything's perfect I figured it all out, I know one thing that struck my mother from our podcast is when I said you know I'm not afraid of clowns anymore and my anxiety is one away and she's like you got to tell me how you did that, got tell me how what did you do to figure that out and I was just like I don't know I don't have some Universal answer, I just just made peace with I'm going to live until I don't need more and all of that just kind of went away, so it you know and it's just, I don't know something I'm going through I don't know how to tell you to how to do it for you.   Pastor Newms: [34:32] Right.   Pastor Bill: [34:39] Yes now last week we looked at second Timothy 1:7 right God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of love power and a sound mind, so if I was going to give advice in this area about being content and about having peace.   Pastor Newms: [35:02] Mmm.   Pastor Bill: [35:02] It would be that it would be this we talked about that word sound mind goes back to being disciplined, is disciplining your mind and so my advice would be to to, obtain this this state of contentment to grasp this idea of peace and to work towards that, you need to be mentally disciplined, I know there's a pandemic what am I gonna do while most it here are my run through all the scenarios of how that's going to ruin my no no I'm not, I'm gonna go into my mind and I'm going to think about how am I going to love my family, how am I going to love the Lord and keep my mind disciplined instead of letting it run rampant off into left field right, and that's.   [36:01] My advice and my suggestion on how to work on being content in whatever scenario you find yourself in, there's a lot of fear on social media right now about we're going to go into a time of food shortages and toilet paper shortage is again and it's going to be gas shortages and, it's really easy with what's going on in the world right now to have an undisciplined mind and just let it run wild.   [36:34] We have to contain that, and take control of our thought life and have some discipline in that area and not you know go crazy.   Pastor Newms: [37:01] Because that is definitely one of my biggest struggles is anxieties and I mean being being at peace and being content in the situation is very very hard for me, my anxieties I am constantly having to rain, it all in because if I blink wrong, my mind goes you know to 10,000 places and it's just like okay no no no and, the.   [37:39] Yes Biggs just said you know he tells us not to worry and to turn it over to him because at a certain point it's like okay I can't worry about this we had some situations this week financially that you know, it's going to be your heart until we get, bounced back in in between you know there's always that unknown of in between a job and you know something hit that we weren't expecting and it's going to be interesting to figure it out but I can't, worry about it because we have everything we need we have everything, you know it's just okay this week's weird you know and so that's it is definitely something that I've definitely struggled with this week, especially more than normal.   Pastor Bill: [38:41] Yeah and we're going about it's not going to make it better, it's not going to fix it like all you're doing is is literally torturing yourself by worrying about it it's not, I mean there is there is literally no situation where worry solves the problem.   [39:10] Right, you can make plans you can analyze situations and you can move forward but sitting here going well I just I just don't know what's gonna happen in this could happen in that could happen and so it's just going to overtake us, that's worried but you could do the same thing as sitting that you could sit down and logically go well this could happen and if it does then this or this could happen and if it does then this, and there's that too there's two to two different things you know there's worry where you're just a victim you're the victim of the circumstances, and then there's the other where no I'm not a victim I'm preparing I recognize bad things can happen, and I'm preparing do you think that's any in any way related to the to the pessimistic and optimistic thing, the heck glass-is-half-full Russ is half empty.   Pastor Newms: [40:20] I don't know so you know no I think that's just, two outlooks now if you're really stressed out, because the glass is half empty or half full I would say yes but the the thought process of is it I don't think it is.   Pastor Bill: [40:45] Okay but you you've heard what I'm talking about right like now I mean obviously you have but so basically The Optimist, half you know full and the pessimist says well know that glass of lemonade is half empty, and then the realist walks up and goes guys, I don't think that's a lemonade.   [41:23] Hahaha.   [41:28] The realist.   [41:35] I don't think that's lemonade guys.   Pastor Newms: [41:37] Yeah that's um he's a something.   Pastor Bill: [41:43] That's an analogy for life that's the analogy for life.   Pastor Newms: [41:46] All right anyway.   Pastor Bill: [41:51] I'm done I don't have anything else to say I was hoping you'd carry us for the next 12 minutes.   [42:02] I went there big says he went there I did I went there I edited the jokes lightly.   Pastor Newms: [42:10] You did.   Pastor Bill: [42:11] That the word was implied.   Pastor Newms: [42:13] You did you did I did not I was like don't do it, normally I'm you can ask Pastor Bill or anyone who knows me really well I'm the king of bleeping the wrong word when trying to censor something when you relapse.   Pastor Bill: [42:43] Absolutely are.   Pastor Newms: [42:44] And I'll be like I'll bleep the word in front of it or behind it and just let the middle flow and your like I did that wrong it's not what I meant to say.   Pastor Bill: [42:58] What did you just bleep the word "the?" What was wrong with the worthy that you thought you had to bleep.   Pastor Newms: [43:10] Did you really not say mother why did you pleat mother you love your mother why would you bleep that.   Pastor Bill: [43:16] You want your brother.   Pastor Newms: [43:19] Anyway.   Pastor Bill: [43:22] Anyway.   Pastor Newms: [43:23] First board meeting of the church just saying.   [43:35] You want to know.   Pastor Bill: [43:39] Practice contentment and peace.   Pastor Newms: [43:41] You want to do another card and see if it's about contentment and peace.   Pastor Bill: [43:44] Sure let's do another card that'll be a good closer.   Pastor Newms: [43:45] All right you've been given the chance to travel into the future and see how the world will change in the next 50 years what change in particular are you interested in the most.   [44:02] Now my question is is so follow-up question do we get to return. Cuz if we're just traveling and then we're stuck there I'm just going to care about Prosthetics I'm going to care about you know, things to increase and lower my pain levels.   Pastor Bill: [44:38] Zadie the question was if you could travel 50 years in the future what change would you be most interested to know about.   Pastor Newms: [44:50] And when I say the stock market I don't mean I'm interested in the stock market because if you then put money into the stock market you might change the outcomes but like interested in like, who's the next Google you know where do you want to position yourself in your business where do you want to position you know things like that, how to properly position yourself for the next 50 years not necessarily well I just want to make money because money is fun but money isn't everything and if you're miserable you're miserable. That's why I was reading something somewhere it's like if everyone was given a hundred thousand dollars overnight, in two weeks we'd still have, a lot of rich people in a lot of poor people and you're like it's not necessarily inaccurate.   Pastor Bill: [45:45] If everyone woke up with a hundred a hundred thousand dollars richer that's what that would trigger what you call installation suddenly a loaf of bread would cost a hundred dollars. Just overnight.   Pastor Newms: [46:01] Yeah and people would, people that have certain mindsets would continue to and the outcome at the end would be very interesting and like you said it would be a situation like in some countries where the dollar means nothing.   Pastor Bill: [46:22] Just it's worthless. Yeah hundred thousand dollars which yesterday was worth $100,000 today it's worth $10.   Pastor Newms: [46:35] It's like when you're looking for a job I have a friend who works in Tech and he was looking for jobs and he'd get offers from foreign companies to, work as an outsourcer for that foreign company that then outsources to America.   Pastor Bill: [47:03] A hundred thousand what.   Pastor Newms: [47:05] I did it's like wait it's like and it was like oh it's 15,000 a year and you're like oh okay no.   Pastor Bill: [47:17] Yeah I can't survive off of.   Pastor Newms: [47:19] I can't pay my rent on that.   Pastor Bill: [47:24] But in India you'd be a rich man.   Pastor Newms: [47:28] It's not that bad, it's like a third that's like 1/10, yeah anyway and I guess that also would depend on the part of India for talking about the tech sector in Mumbai that's a lot different than, you know other parts of India as well.   Pastor Bill: [47:54] But I haven't been to Mumbai I've only been to Hyderabad in Andhra Pradesh, so   Pastor Newms: [48:05] Yes.   Pastor Bill: [48:09] But I like India maybe maybe if I could have India all to myself.   Pastor Newms: [48:13] I would II India is definitely on my bucket list because of our friend there, I definitely want to go to India and get asked several times a year on when I'm coming to India, and I really do want to to travel to India it's probably the only country at the moment where I'm like let's go because I don't like international travel, that's a lie I don't like travel was like I don't like international travel I don't like National travel either.   Pastor Bill: [48:51] If you do go you need to have your friend buy your tickets, not you buy your tickets because if you buy your tickets it's going to be infinitely more expensive than if he buys the tickets.   [49:19] I loved my month in India I really did it's the only missions trip I ever went on, that like the last two weeks of the trip I was trying to figure out how I could get switched to a two-month trip from my one month and not go home at the end of the month because that's how much I loved India.   Pastor Newms: [49:39] Yeah.   Pastor Bill: [49:40] I couldn't figure it out.   Pastor Newms: [49:42] Yeah it's definitely it's um, it is a place I would love to see I've got you know friends from a couple different of the areas of India and the way they talk about you know ones from more of like the fishing, area and you know the way he talks about the, the being able to go to a cafe that's literally on the water and you know, blah blah blah it's just there's some very interesting you can get a lot of each of the areas are very very different.   Pastor Bill: [50:23] And being a pale Caucasian as long as you don't go too far north you'll be just fine.   [50:34] Anything anything north of the state of Andhra Pradesh you don't want to go there as a pale Caucasian that's.   Pastor Newms: [50:43] And and there certain areas the up north you don't want to go as a Christian either because they are.   Pastor Bill: [50:51] Well that's that's why you don't want to go as a pale Caucasian because they, you're a Christian and the Muslims there are quite aggressive and, there have been lots and lots and lots of incidents over the years. Which let's be honest, colonizers we're paying we're paying for decades and decades and centuries of aggressive colonization, and theft of land and denigration of local populations, and yes white people did that, and I know it wasn't exclusively white people there are other races that were involved in colnization but why people led the charge, and yeah I fully understand some of the aggressive stances that are happening in the world and you know that still happen in the world I under get it I get it.   Pastor Newms: [52:07] There was a time in with England where the sun didn't set on the kingdom you know because they had expanded so much you know so, yeah.   Pastor Bill: [52:28] Well if you're listening to this and you enjoy, this podcast then I'm glad to hear that I hope that we're speaking into your life and, making you a better modern Christian and that you are learning how to have a deeper faith, how to embrace hope and how to love more and like I said if you want to join us on Sunday evenings at 6:30 Central Standard Time we'd love to see you in chat, and this podcast comes out every Wednesday at 7 p.m. Central Standard Time wherever you get your podcasts, and now we're going to do a little thing we call the 32nd buffer song because some of the platforms were on require a 30 second buffer.   Pastor Newms: [53:20] And a side note if you want to see our face outside of the Berean Manifesto you can randomly at Pastor Newms on Twitch just saying.   Pastor Bill: [53:35] Gaming With The Pastors.   Pastor Newms: [53:37] Shameless plug.   Pastor Bill: [53:38] Shameless plug for one of our Ministries.   Pastor Newms: [53:42] We're going to be playing DCU online and enjoying it and trying to meet new people and build relationships which is fun.   Pastor Bill: [53:53] Pretty soon we're going to have to get satisfactory because I want to play satisfactory.   [54:03] I think it's going to be next on the list because I really want to play it okay.   Pastor Newms: [54:06] We could do that okay.   Pastor Bill: [54:08] 30 second buffer 30 second buffer 30 second buffer has it been 30 seconds yet, no of course not that's not how time works 30 second buffer 30 second buffer 30 second buffer you guys have a great week.   Pastor Newms: [54:27] Be safe out there we love you.   Pastor Bill: [54:30] Until next time.   Pastor Newms: [54:34] Press the button now bye.   Pastor Bill: [54:41] I'm doing where's my button I don't know that there it is.

We have a brand new regular format called "I Googled" where one of the trio look into a topic they find fascinating. This week Sophie tries to understand the complex mind of Tom Delonge (Blink 182/Angels and Airwaves) and his commitment to alien investigations.Give us a follow: IG/Twitter: @wewearblackpod Email: wewearblackpod@gmail.com SophieIG/Twitter: @iamsophiek Tiktok: @iamsophiekx AlyxIG/Twitter: @alyxholcombe TikTok: @alyxplayspunk YasmineIG: @yasminesumman Twitter/TikTok: @yasminesummanx Special thanks to:Nova Twins for the intro/outro musicWargasm for the screams See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

It's another personal episode! But this time we're going to make it a little more fun. It's like we're at a sleepover, going through tiger beat, trying to decide what kind of people we are. I've always been fascinated by personality tests. So, my curiosity has gotten the best of me. I Googled three different personality tests and completed them with all of you. We're going to see what the difference is, if any, between each one. Along the way, we're going to learn what kind of person I am together. What better people to do that with than your friends? I hope you're ready for a long ride! Go ahead and pop those headphones on, turn the volume up, and come with me Off the Paigee. Blog: alyspaigee Blog Post: Welcome to the Lightning Round Personality Tests 16 Personalities The Type Finder Enneagram Test Follow for more Instagram: @alyspagiee Twitter: @alyspaigee Instagram: @offthepaigee Twitter: @offthepaigee --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Back in 199something — during the early days of the web — I asked a friend who owned an ad agency how I could create my website. He flashed a salesman's smile and said, “It's so easy, Lynford.” “All you have to do is get a designer to create your design for you. Then you need to find a developer to turn that design into a web template. Then you add all of your content. Then you need to find someone who will maintain it for you.” But what if I want to do it myself? “If you can do all of that yourself, then good luck,” he shrugged. That was then. These days it's so much simpler to create a website. And when you use a platform like Squarespace, creating a website can be so simple. Here's why I use Squarespace and think it is one of the best options for creating and maintaining a website. These days it's so much simpler to create a website. And when you use a platform like Squarespace, creating a website can be so simple. Here's why I use Squarespace and think it is one of the best options for creating and maintaining a website. Why Squarespace? Remember, I said you need a website? A website is one of the four pillars of personal branding we discussed in episode 02. You might be wondering how you get started with a website. I use a platform called Squarespace. In fact, I've been using them for the last 10 years. Squarespace is an online tool for building and publishing websites. Squarespace uses pre-built website templates and drag-and-drop elements to create webpages. But it wasn't always that easy. In the old days, I created websites from scratch using Adobe Dreamweaver. Back then, you did a lot of designing and coding — page by page, unless you knew a language called CSS or cascading style sheet. Since then, I've tried Wix, Weebly, Wordpress.com & Wordpress.org. I used the blogging platform, Blogger from Google. I tried Apple's then website maker product. There was one that was native to Apple computers. It wasn't until I stumbled onto Squarespace about 10 years ago that I knew I was home. I found it to be the simplest, most intuitive, and complete solution. I had just spent my entire weekend and then some trying to get my site up in Wordpress because that's where all the cool kids said you need to host it. I downloaded plugins and bought themes and clunked around them with no discernible process. In sheer frustration, I Googled to see if there were any simpler options, and Squarespace popped up. I logged on and had a decent site up in a couple of hours. It was too easy and looked the way I wanted it to look, with drag and drop simplicity. We've grown together over the years. Squarespace has added lots of features and upgraded its platform a few more times. Now I wouldn't use anything else. Here are some reasons it's worth a look. What I like Beautiful, professionally designed templates. It is easy to have a website that looks like a professional designer did it, even if you don't know a lick of code. A modular system makes it not only easy to make them look good but hard to mess up. Everything you need is built in. You know it's there, and you know it works. Unsplash Images + thousands of web fonts Mobile-ready, fully responsive - out the box. No resizing all your images yourself or making any adjustments to load AMP. Squarespace takes care of all of that behind the scenes. Just upload your image, and you're done. Blogging options are superb. This is where it shines. You can create so many different options for your blogging/podcasting platform (CMS). You can even add more than one blog to your site if you choose. Multiple blogs give you lots of layout & design options, even if you don't use them as a traditional blog. SEO - Squarespace makes it very easy to create more searchable pages. The platform tells you exactly what to do to make your content more searchable by Google. Built-in marketing features — Announcement bar, pop up email, newsletter blocks Support — Chat and email very responsive. Tons of help videos to do everything imaginable. They also offer complementary services Logo design Email marketing Creating social stories Scheduling Website analytics Memberships Commerce - You can sell any product or service. Even offer free downloads. Mobile apps Squarespace - manage your website Analytics Commerce 14-day trial, no credit card required Built for Small to mid-sized businesses Photographers Bloggers Artists Restaurants Musicians Weddings Students What I don't like Not easy to export a blog to another Squarespace site No staging site. Everything publishes as you create. (Update 4/22/21) - The new Squarespace 7.1 now lets you save and publish separately. This is no longer an issue after you upgrade. Can't create pretty link URLs

Do you know what cloud native apps are? Well, we don’t really either, but today we’re on a mission to find out! This episode is an exciting one, where we bring all of our different understandings of what cloud native apps are to the table. The topic is so interesting and diverse and can be interpreted in a myriad of ways. The term ‘cloud native app’ is not very concrete, which allows for this open interpretation. We begin by discussing what we understand cloud native apps to be. We see that while we all have similar definitions, there are still many differences in how we interpret this term. These different interpretations unlock some other important questions that we also delve into. Tied into cloud native apps is another topic we cover today – monoliths. This is a term that is used frequently but not very well understood and defined. We unpack some of the pros and cons of monoliths as well as the differences between monoliths and microservices. Finally, we discuss some principles of cloud native apps and how having these umbrella terms can be useful in defining whether an app is a cloud native one or not. These are complex ideas and we are only at the tip of the iceberg. We hope you join us on this journey as we dive into cloud native apps! Follow us: https://twitter.com/thepodlets Website: https://thepodlets.io Feeback: info@thepodlets.io https://github.com/vmware-tanzu/thepodlets/issues Hosts: Carlisia Campos Bryan Liles Josh Rosso Nicholas Lane Key Points From This Episode: What cloud native applications mean to Carlisia, Bryan, Josh, and Nicholas. Portability is a big factor of cloud native apps. Cloud native applications can modify their infrastructure needs through API calls. Cloud native applications can work well with continuous delivery/deployment systems. A component of cloud native applications is that they can modify the cloud. An application should be thought of as multiple processes that interact and link together. It is possible resources will begin to be requested on-demand in cloud native apps. An explanation of the commonly used term ‘monolith.’ Even as recently as five years ago, monoliths were still commonly used. The differences between a microservice approach and a monolith approach. The microservice approach requires thinking about the interface at the start, making it harder. Some of the instances when using a monolith is the logical choice for an app. A major problem with monoliths is that as functionality grows, so too does complexity. Some other benefits and disadvantages of monolith apps. In the long run, separating apps into microservices gives a greater range of flexibility. A monolith can be a cloud native application as well. Clarification on why Brian uses the term ‘microservices’ rather than cloud native. ‘Cloud native’ is an umbrella term and a set of principles rather than a strict definition. If it can run confidently on someone else’s computer, it is likely a cloud native application. Applying cloud native principles when building an app from scratch makes it simpler. It is difficult to adapt a monolith app into one which uses cloud native principles. The applications which could never be adapted to use cloud native principles. A checklist of the key attributes of cloud native applications. Cloud native principles are flexible and can be adapted to the context. It is the responsibility of thought leaders to bring cloud native thinking into the mainstream. Kubernetes has the potential to allow us to see our data centers differently. Quotes: “An application could be made up of multiple processes.” — @joshrosso [0:14:43] “A monolith is simply an application or a single process that is running both the UI, the front-end code and the code that fetches the state from a data store, whether that be disk or database.” — @joshrosso [0:16:36] “Separating your app is actually smarter than the long run because what it gives you is the flexibility to mix and match.” — @bryanl [0:22:10] “A cloud native application isn’t a thing. It is a set of principles that you can use to guide yourself to running apps in cloud environments.” — @bryanl [0:26:13] “All of these things that we are talking about sound daunting. But it is better that we can have these conversations and talk about things that don’t work rather than not knowing what to talk about in general.” — @bryanl [0:39:30] Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode: Red Hat — https://www.redhat.com/en IBM — https://www.ibm.com/ VWware — https://www.vmware.com/ The New Stack — https://thenewstack.io/ 10 Key Attributes of Cloud-Native Applications — https://thenewstack.io/10-key-attributes-of-cloud- native-applications/ Kubernetes — https://kubernetes.io/ Linux — https://www.linux.org/ Transcript: EPISODE 16 [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:08.7] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to The Podlets Podcast, a weekly show that explores Cloud Native one buzzword at a time. Each week, experts in the field will discuss and contrast distributed systems concepts, practices, tradeoffs and lessons learned to help you on your cloud native journey. This space moves fast and we shouldn’t reinvent the wheel. If you’re an engineer, operator or technically minded decision maker, this podcast is for you. [EPISODE] [0:00:41.4] NL: Hello and welcome back, my name is Nicholas Lane. This time, we’ll be diving into what it’s all about. Cloud native applications. Joining me this week are Brian Liles. [0:00:53.2] BL: Hi. [0:00:54.3] NL: Carlisia Campos. [0:00:55.6] CC: Hi everybody, glad to be here. [0:00:57.6] NL: And Josh Rosso. [0:00:58.6] JR: Hey everyone. [0:01:00.0] NL: How’s it going everyone? [0:01:01.3] JR: It’s been a great week so far. I’m just happy that I have a good job and able to do things that make me feel whole. [0:01:08.8] NL: That’s awesome, wow. [0:01:10.0] BL: Yeah, I’ve been having a good week as well in doing a bit of some fun stuff after work. Like my soon to be in-laws are in town so I’ve been visiting with them and that’s been really fun. Cloud native applications, what does that mean to you all? Because I think that’s an interesting topic. [0:01:25.0] CC: Definitely not a monolith. I think if you have a monolith running on the clouds, even if you start it out that way, I wouldn’t say it’s a cloud native app, I always think of containerized applications and if you’re using the container system then it’s usually because you want to have a smaller systems in more of them, that sort of thing. Also, when I think of cloud native applications, I think that they were developed the whole strategy of the development in the whole strategy of deploying and shipping has been designed from scratch to put on the cloud system. [0:02:05.6] JR: I think of it as applications that were designed to run in container. And I also think about things like services, like micro services or macro services to know what you want to call them that we have multiple applications that are made to talk not just with themselves but with other apps and they deliver a bigger functionality through their coordination. Then what I also want to go cloud native apps, I think of apps that we are moving to the cloud, that’s a big topic in itself but applications that we run in the cloud. All of our new fancy services and our SaaS offerings, a lot of these are cloud native apps. But then on the other side, I think about applications, they are cloud native are tolerant to failure and on the other side, can actually talk about sells of their health and who they’re talking to. [0:02:54.8] CC: Gets very complicated. [0:02:56.6] BL: Yeah. That was the side of that I haven’t thought about. [0:03:00.7] JR: Actually, it’s for me that always come to mind are obviously portability, right? Wherever you're running this application, it can run somewhat consistently, be it on different clouds or even a lot of people, you know, are running their own cloud which is basically their on-prem cloud, right? That application being able to move across any of those places and often times, containerization is one of the mechanisms we use to do that, right? Which is what we all stated. Then I guess the other thing too is like, this whole cloud ecosystem, be it a cloud provider or your own personal – are often times very API driven, right? So, the applications, maybe being able to take advantage of some of those API’s should they need to. Be it for scaling purposes otherwise. It’s really interesting model. [0:03:43.2] NL: It’s interesting, for me like this question because so far, everyone is getting similar but also different answers. And for me, I’m going to give a silent answer to me, a cloud native application is a lot of things we said like portable. I think of micro services when II] think of a cloud native application. But it’s also an application that can modify the infrastructure it needs via API calls, right? If your application needs a service or needs a networking connection, it can – the application itself can manifest that via cloud offering, right? That’s what I always thought of as a cloud native application, right? If you need like a database, the application can reach out to like AWS RDS and spin up the database and that was an aspect of I always found very fascinating with cloud native applications, it isn’t necessarily the definition but for me, that’s the part that I was really focused on I think is quite interesting. [0:04:32.9] BL: Also, CI/CD cloud native apps are made to work well with our CI, our seamless integration and our continuous delivery/deployment systems as well, that’s like another very important aspect of cloud native applications. We should be able to deploy them to production without typing anything in. should be some kind of automated process. [0:04:56.4] NL: Yeah, that is for sure. Carlisia, you mentioned something that I think it’s good for us to talk about a little bit which is terminology. I keeping coming back to that. You mentioned monolithic apps, what are monoliths then? [0:05:09.0] CC: I am so hung up on what you just said, can we table that for a few minutes? You said cloud native applications for you is an application that can interact with the infrastructure and maybe for example, is the database. I wonder if you have an example or if you could expand on that, I want to – if everybody agrees with that, I’m not clear on what that even is. Because as a developer which is always my point of view is what I know. It’s a lot of responsibility for the application to have. And for example, when I would think cloud native and I’m thinking now, maybe I’m going off on a tangent here. But we have Kubernetes, isn’t that what Kubernetes is supposed to do to glue it all together? So, the application only needs to know what it needs to do. But spinning up an all tight system is not one of the things it would need to do? [0:05:57.3] BL: Sure, actually, I was going to use Kubernetes as my example for cloud native application. Because Kubernetes is what it is, an app, right? It can modify the cloud that it’s running. And so, if you have Kubernetes running in AWS, you can create ELB’s, elastic load balancers. It can create new nodes. It can create new databases if you need, as I mentioned. Kubernetes itself is my example like a cloud native application. I should say that that’s a good callout. My example of what a cloud native application isn’t necessarily like that’s a rule. All cloud native applications have to modify the cloud in which they exist in. It’s more that they can modify. That is a component of a cloud native application. Kubernetes is being an example there. I don’t know, I guess things like operators inside of Kubernetes like the rook operator will create storage for you when you spin up like root create a Ceph cluster, it will also spin up like the ELB’s behind it or at least I believe it does. Or that kind of functionality. [0:06:57.2] CC: I can see what you're saying because for example, if I choose to use the storage inside something like Kubernetes, then you will be required of my app to call an SDK and connect so that their storage somehow. So, in that sense I guess, you are using your app. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but that’s how the connection is created, right? You just request – but you’re not necessarily saying I want this thing specific, you just say I want this sort of thing like which has their storage and then you define that elsewhere. So, your applications don’t need to know details bit definitely needs to say, I need this. I’m talking about again, when your data storage is running on top of Kubernetes and not outside of it. [0:07:46.4] BL: Yeah. [0:07:47.3] NL: That brings up an interesting part of this whole term cloud native app. Because it’s like everything else in the space, our terms are not super concrete and an interesting piece about this is that an application – does an application half the map one to one with the running process? What is an application? [0:08:06.1] NL: That is interesting because it could say that a serverless app or a serverless rule, whatever serverless really is, I guess we can get into that in another episode. Are those cloud native applications? They’re not just running anywhere. [0:08:19.8] JR: I will punt on that because I know my boundaries are and that definitely not in my boundaries. But the reason I bring this up is because a little while ago, it’s probably year ago in a Kubernetes [inaudible 0:08:32] apps, we actually have a conversation about what an application was. And the consensus from the community and from the group members was that actually, an application could be made up of multiple processes. So, let’s say you were building this large SaaS service and because you’re selling dog food online, your application could be your dog food application. But you have inventory management. You have a front end, maybe you haven’t had service, you have a shipping manager and things like that. Sales tax calculator. Are those all applications? Or is it one application? The piece about cloud application are cloud native applications because what we found in Kubernetes is that the way we’re thinking about applications is, an application is multiple processes, that can be linked together and we can tell the whole story of how all those interact and working. Just something else, another way to think about this. [0:09:23.5] NL: Yeah, that is interesting, I never really considered that before but that makes a lot of sense. Particularly with the rise of things like GRPC and the ability to send dedicated messages to are like well codified messages too different processes. That gives rise to things like this multi-tenant process as an application. [0:09:41.8] BL: Right. But going back to your idea around cloud native applications being able to commandeer the resources that they’re needing. That’s something that we do see. We see it within Kubernetes right now. I’ll give you above and beyond the example that you gave is that whenever you create a staple set. And Kubernetes, the operator behind staple set that actually goes and provisions of PPC for you, you requested a resource and whatever you change the number of instances from one to like five, guess what? you get four more PPC’s. Just think about it, that is actually something that is happening, it’s a little transparent with people. but I can see to the point of we’re just requesting a new resource and if we are using cloud services to watch our other things, or our cloud native services to watch our applications, I could see us asking for this on demand or even a service like a database or some other type of queuing thing on demand. [0:10:39.2] CC: When I hear things like this, I think, “ Wow, it sounds very complicated. "But then I start to think about it and I think it’s really neat because it is complicated but the alternative would have been way more complicated. I mean, we can talk about, this is sort of how it’s done now. I mean, it’s really hard to go into details on a one-hour episode. We can’t cover the how it’s done or make conceptually, we are sort of throwing a lot of words out there sort of conceptualize it but we can also try to talk about it in a conceptual way how it is done in a non-cloud native world. [0:11:15.3] NL: Yeah, I kind of want to get back to the question I posed before, what is a monolithic app, what is a none cloud native app? And not all none cloud native apps are monoliths but this is actually something that I’ve heard a lot and I’ll be honest. I have an idea of what a monolithic app is but I think I don’t have a very good grasp of it. We kind of talked a bit about like what a cloud native app is, what is a none cloud native or what came before a cloud native applications. What is a monolith? [0:11:39.8] CC: I’m personally not a big fan of monoliths. Of course, I worked with them but once micro services started becoming common and started developing in that mode. I am much more of a fan of breaking things down for so many different reasons. It is a controversial topic for sure. But to go back to your question, the monolith is basically, you have an app, sort of goes to what Brian was saying, it’s like, what is an app? If you think of an app and like one thing, Amazon is an app, right? It’s an app that we use to buy things as consumers. And you know, the other part is the cloud. But let’s look at it like it’s an app that we use to buy things as consumers, we know it’s broken down to so many different services. There is the checkout service, there is the cart service. I mean, I’m imagining, these I can imagine thought, the small services that compose that one Amazon app. If it was a monolith, those services that you know – those things are different systems that are talking together. The whole thing would be on one code base. It would reside in same code base or it will be deployed together. It will be shipped together. If you make a change in one place and you needed to deploy that, you have to deploy the whole thing together. You might have teams that are working on separate aspects but they’re working against the same code base. And maybe because of that, that will lend itself to teams not really specializing on separate aspects because everything is together so you might make one change of the impacts another place and then you have to know that part as well. So, there is a lot less specialization and separation of teams as well. [0:13:32.3] BL: Maybe to give an example of my experience and I think it aligns with a lot of the details Carlisia just went over. Even taking five years back, my experience at least was, we’d write up a ticket and we’d ask somebody to make a server space for us, maybe run [inaudible 0:13:44] on it, right? We’d write all this Java code and we’d package it into these things that run on a JDL somewhere, right? We would deploy this whole big application you know?Let’s call it that dog food app, right? It would have maybe even like a state layer and have the web server layer, maybe have all these different pieces all running together, this big code base as Carlisia put it. And we’d deploy it, you know, that process took a lot of time and was very consuming especially when we needed to change stuff, we didn’t have all these modern API’s and this kind of decoupled applications, right? But then, over time, you know, we started learning more and more about the notion of isolating each of these pieces or layers. So that we could have the web server, isolated in its how, put some site container or a unit and then the state layer and the other layers even isolated, you know, the micro service approach more or less. And then we were able to scale independently and that was really awesome. so we saw a lot of the gains in that respect. We basically moved our complexity to other areas, we took our complexity that you need to all happen in the same memory space and we moved a lot of it into the network with this new protocols of that different services talk to one another. It’s been an interesting thing kind of seeing the monolith approach and the micro service approach and how a lot of these micro service apps are in my opinion a lot more like cloud native aligned, if that makes sense? Just seeing how the complexity shows around in that regard. [0:15:05.8] CC: Let me just say one more thing because it’s actually the biggest aspect of micro services that I like the most in comparison, you know, the aspect of monolith that I hate the most and that I don’t hate it, I appreciate the least, let’s put it that way. Is that, when you have a monolith, it is so easy because design is hard so it’s so easy to couple different parts of your app with other parts of your app and have couples cold and coupled functionality. When you break this into micro services, that is impossible. Because it was working with separate code bases. If you force to think what is your interface, you’re always thinking about the interface and what people need to consume from you, your interface is the only way into your app, into your system. I really like the aspect that it forces you to think about your API. And people will argue, “Well you can’t put the same amount of effort into that if you have a monolith.” Absolutely, but in reality, I don’t see it. And like Josh was saying, it is not a walk on the park, but I’d much rather deal with those issues, those complexities that Microsoft has create then the challenges of running a big – I’m talking about big monoliths, right? Not something trivial. [0:16:29.8] JR: I will come to distil this about how I look at monoliths and how it fits into this conversation. A monolith is simply an application that is or a single process in this case that is running both the UI, the front-end code and the code that fetches the state from a data store, whether that be disk or database. That is what a monolith is. The reasons people use monoliths are many but I can actually think of some very good reasons. If you have code reuse and let’s say you have a website and you were trying to – you have farms and you want to be able to use those form libraries or you have data access and you want to be able to reuse that data access code, a monolith is great. The problem with monoliths is as functionality becomes larger, complexity becomes larger and not at the same rate. I’m not going to say that it is not linear but it’s not quite exponential. Maybe it logs into or something like that. But the problem is that at a certain point, you’re going to have so much functionality, you’re not going to be able to put it inside of one process, see Rails. Rails is actually a great example of this where we run into the issues where we put so much application into a rail source directory and we try to run it and we basically run up with these huge processes. And we split them up. But what we found is that we could actually split out the front-end code to one process. We could spit out the middle ware, see multiple process in the middle, the data access layer to another process and we could use those, we could actually take advantage of multiple CPU cores or multiple computers. The problem with this is that with splitting this out, it’s complexity. So, what if you have a [inaudible 0:18:15] is, what I’m trying to say here in a very long way is that monoliths have their places. As a matter of fact, the encourage, at least I still encourage people to start with the monolith. Put everything in one place. Whenever it gets too big, you spit it out. But in a cloud native world, because we’re trying to take advantage of containers, we’re trying to take advantage of cords on CPUs, we’re trying to take advantage of multiple computers to do that in the most efficient way, you want to split your application up into smaller pieces so that your front end versus your middle layer, versus your data access layer versus your data layer itself can run on as many computers and as many cores as possible. Therefore, spreading thee risk and spreading the usage because everything should be faster. [0:19:00.1] NL: Awesome. That is some great insight into monolithic apps and also the benefit and pros and cons of them. Like something I didn’t have before. Because I’ve only ever heard of a praise monolithic apps and then it’s like said in hushed tones or what the swear word directly after it. And so, it’s interesting to hear the concept of it being that each way you deploy your application is complex but there are different tradeoffs, right? It’s the idea that I was like, “Why don’t you want to turn your monolithic into micro services? Well, there’s so much more overhead, so much more yak shaving you have to do to get there to take advantage of micro services. That was awesome, thank you so much for that insight. [0:19:39.2] CC: I wanted to reiterate a couple aspects of what Brian said and Josh said in regards to that. One huge advantage, I mean, your application needs to be substantial enough that you feel like you need to do that, you’re going to get some advantage from it. when you had that point, and you do that, you’re clearing to services like Josh was saying and Brian was saying, you have the ability to increase your capabilities, your process capabilities based on one aspect of the system that needs it. So, you have something that requires very low processing, you run that service with certain level of capabilities. And something that like your orders process or your orders micro service. You increase the processing power for that much more than some other part. When it comes to running this in the cloud native world, I think this is more an infrastructure aspect. But my understanding is that you can automate all of that, you can determine, “Okay, I have analyzed my requirements based on history and what I need is stacks. So, I’m going to say tell the cloud native infrastructure, this is what I need in the automation will take care of bringing the system up to that if anything happens.” We are always going to be healing your system in an automated way and this is something that I don’t think gets talked about enough like we say, we talk about, “Oh things split up this way and they’re run this way but in an automated mode that these makes all of the difference. [0:21:15.4] NL: Yeah that makes a lot of sense actually. So, basically analytic apps don’t give us the benefit of automation or automated deployment versus like micro services kind of give us and cloud native applications give us the rise. [0:21:28.2] BL: Yes, and think about this, whenever you have five micro services delivering your applications functionality and you need to upgrade the front-end code for the HTML, whatever generates the HTML. You can actually replace that piece or replace that piece and that not bring your whole application down. And even better yet, you can replace that piece one at a time or two at a time, still have the majority of your applications still running and maybe your users won’t even know at all. So, let’s say you have a monolith and you are running multiple versions of this monoliths. When you take that whole application down, you literally take the whole application down not only do you lose front-end capacity, you also lose back-end capacity as well. So, separating your app is actually smarter than the long run because what it gives you is the flexibility to mix and match and you could actually scale the front end at a different level than you did at the backend. And that is actually super important in [inaudible 0:22:22] land and actually Python land and .NET land if you’re writing monoliths. You have to scale at the level of your monolith and if you can scale that then you are having wasted resources. So smaller micro services, smaller cloud native apps makes the run of containers, actually will use less resources. [0:22:41.4] JR: I have an interesting question for us all. So obviously a lot of cloud native applications usually maybe look like these micro services we’re describing, can a monolith be a cloud native application as well? [0:22:54.4] BL: Yes, it can. [0:22:55.1] JR: Cool. [0:22:55.6] NL: Yeah, I think so. As long as the – basically monolith can be deployed in the mechanism that we described like CSAD or can take advantage of the cloud. I believe the monolith can be a cloud native application, sure. [0:23:08.8] CC: There are monolith – because I am glad you brought that up because I was going to bring that up because I hear Brian using the micro services in cloud native apps interchangeably and it makes it really hard for me to follow, “Okay, so what is not cloud native application or what is not a cloud native service and what is not a cloud native monolith?” So, to start this thread with the question that Josh just asked, which also became my question: if I have a monolith app running a cloud provider is that a cloud native app? If it is not what piece of puzzle needs to exists for that to be considered a cloud native app? And then the follow up question I am going to throw it out there already is why do we care? What is the big deal if it is or if it isn’t? [0:23:55.1] BL: Wow, okay. Well let’s see. Let’s unpack this. I have been using micro service and cloud native interchangeably probably not to the best effect. But let me clear up something here about cloud native versus micro services. Cloud native is a big term and it goes further than an application itself. It is not only the application. It is also the environment of the application can run in. It is the process that we use to get the application to production. So, monoliths can be cloud native apps. We can run them through CI/CD. They can run in containers. They can take advantage of their environment. We can scale them independently. but we use micro services instead this becomes easier because our surface area is smaller. So, what I want to do is not use that term like this. Cloud native applications is an umbrella term but I will never actually say cloud native application. I always say a micro service and the reason why I will say the micro service is because it is much more accurate description of that process that is running. Cloud native applications is more of the umbrella. [0:25:02.0] JR: It is really interesting because a lot of the times that we are working with customers when they go out and introduce them to Kubernetes, we are often times asked, “How do I make my application cloud native?” To what you are talking about Brian and to your question Carlisia, I feel like a lot of times people are a little bit confused about it because sometimes they are actually asking us, “How do I break this legacy app into smaller micro services,” right? But sometimes they are actually asking like, “How do I make it more cloud native?” And usually our guidance or the things that we are working with them on is exactly that, right? It is like getting that application container so we can get it portable whether it is a monolith or a micro service, right? We are containerizing it. We are making it more portable. We are maybe helping them out with health checks that the infrastructure environment that they are running in can tap into it and know the health of that application whether it’s to restart it with Kubernetes as an example. We are going through and helping them understand those principles that I think fall more into the umbrella of cloud native like you are saying Brian if I am following you correctly and helping them kind of enhance their application. But it doesn’t necessarily mean splitting it apart, right? It doesn’t mean running it in smaller services. It just means following these more cloud native principles. It is hard talk up so that was continuing to say cloud native right? [0:26:10.5] BL: So that is actually a good way of putting it. A cloud native application isn’t a thing. It is a set of principles that you can use to guide yourself to running apps in cloud environments. And it is interesting. When I say cloud environments I am not even really particularly talking about Kubernetes or any type of scheduler. I am just talking about we are running apps on other people’s computers in the cloud this is what we should think about and it goes through those principles. Where we use CI/CD, storage maybe most likely will be ephemeral. Actually, you know what? That whole process, that whole virtual machine that we are running on that is ephemeral too, everything will go away. So, cloud native applications is basically a theory that allows us to be strategic about running applications with other people’s computers and storage and networking and compute may go away. So, we do this at this way, this is how to get our 5-9’s or 4-9’s above time because we can actually do this. [0:27:07.0] NL: That is actually a great point. The cloud native application is one that can confidently run on somebody else’s computer. That is a good stake in the ground. [0:27:15.9] BL: I stand behind that and I like the way that you put it. I am going to steal that and say I made it up. [0:27:20.2] NL: Yeah, go ahead. We have been talking about monoliths and cloud native applications. I am curious, since you all are developers, what is your experience writing cloud native applications? [0:27:31.2] JR: I guess for green field projects where we are starting from scratch and we are kind of building this thing, it is a really pleasant experience because a lot of things are sort of done for us. We just need to know how to interact with the API or the contract to get the things we need. So that is kind of my blanket statement. I am not trying to say it is easy, I am just saying like it has become quite convenient in a lot of respects when adopting these cloud native principles. Like the idea that I have a docker file and I build this container and now I am running this app that I am writing code for all over the place, it’s become such a more pleasant experience and at least in my experience years and years ago with like dropping things into the tomcat instances running all over the place, right? But I guess what’s also been interesting is it’s been a bit hard to convert older applications into the cloud native space, right? Because I think the point Carlisia had started with around the idea of all the code being in one place, you know it is a massive undertaking to understand how some of these older applications work. Again, not saying that all older applications are only monoliths. But my experience has been that they generally are. Their bigger code base is hard to understand how they work and where to modify things without breaking other things, right? When you go and you say, “All right, let’s adopt some cloud native principles on this app that has been running on the mainframe for decades” right? That is a pretty hard thing to do but again, green field projects I found it to be pretty convenient. [0:28:51.6] CC: It is actually easy, Josh. You just rewrite it. [0:28:54.0] JR: Totally yes. That is always a piece of cake. ,[0:28:56.9] BL: You usually write it in Go and then it is cloud native. That is actually the secret to cloud native apps. You write it in Go, you install it, you deploy in Kubernetes, mission accomplish, cloud native to you. [0:29:07.8] CC: Anything written in Go is cloud native. We are declaring that here, you heard that here first. [0:29:13.4] JR: That is a great question, it’s like how do we get there? That is a hard question and not one that I would basically just wave a magic set of words over and say that we are there. But what I would say is that as we start thinking of moving applications to cloud native first, we need to identify applications that cannot be called updated and I could actually give you some. Your Windows 2003 applications and yes, I do know some of you are running 2003 still. Those are not cloud native and they never will be and the problem is that you won’t be able to run them in a containerized environment. Microsoft says stop using 2003, you should stop using it. Other applications that won’t be cloud native are applications that require a certain level of machine or server access. We have been able to attract GPU’s. But if you’re working on the IO level like you are actually looking at IO or if you are looking at hardware interrupts. Or you are looking at anything like that, that application will never be cloud native. Because there is no way that we can in a shared environment, which most likely your application will be running in, in the cloud. There is no way that first of all that the hypervisor that is actually running your virtual machine wants to give you that process or give you that access or that is not being shared from one to 200 other processes on that server. So, applications that want low level access or have real time, you don’t want to run those in the cloud. They cannot be cloud native. That still means a lot of applications can be. [0:30:44.7] CC: So, I keep thinking of if I own a tech stack and I every once in a while stop and evaluate, if I am squeezing as most tech as I can out of my system? Meaning am I using the best technology out there to the extent that fits my needs? If I am that kind of person and I don’t know – it’s like when I say I am a decision maker and even if I was a tech person like I am also a tech person, I still would not have – unless I am one of the architects. And sometimes even the architects don’t have an entire vision. I mean they have to talk to other architects who have a greater vision of the whole system because systems that can be so big. But at any rate, if I am an architect or I own the tech stack one way or another, my question is, is my system a cloud native system? Is my app a cloud native app? I am not even sure that we clarified enough for people to answer that. I mean it is so complicated, maybe we did hopefully we helped a little bit. So basically, this will be my question, how do I know if I am there or not? Because my next step would be well if I am not there then what am I missing? Let me look into it and see if the cost benefit is worth it. But if I don’t know what is missing, what do I look at? How do I evaluate? How do I evaluate if I am there and if I am not, what do I need to do? So, we talked about this a little bit on episode one, which we talked about cloud native like what is cloud native in general and now we are talking about apps. And so, you know, there should be a checklist of things that cloud native should at least have these sets of things. Like the 12-factor app, what do you need to have to be considered 12 factor app. We should have a checklist, 12 factor app I think having that checklist is being part of micro-service in the cloud native app. But I think there needs to be more. I just wish we would have that not that we need to come up with that list now but something to think about. Someone should do it, you know? [0:32:57.5] JR: Yeah, it would be cool. [0:32:58.0] CC: Is it reasonable or now to want to have that checklist? [0:33:00.6] BL: So, there is, there is that checklist that exist I know that Red Hat has one. I know that IBM has one. I would guess VMware has one on one of our web pages. Now the problem is they’re all different. What I do and this is me trying to be fair here. The New Stack basically they talk about things that are happening in the cloud and tech. If you search for The New Stack in cloud native application, there is a 10-bullet list. That is what I send to people now. The reason I send that one rather than any vendor is because a vendor is trying to sell you something. They are trying to sell you their vision of cloud native where they excel and they will give you products that help you with that part like CI/CD, “oh we have a product for that.” I like The New Stack list and actually, I Googled it while you were talking Carlisia because I wanted it to bring it up. So, I will just go through the titles of this list and we’ll make sure that we make this link available. So, there is 10 Key Attributes of Cloud-Native Applications. Package as light weight to containers. Developed with best-of-breed languages and frameworks, you know that doesn’t mean much but that is how nebulous this is. Designed as loosely coupled microservices. Centered around API’s for interaction and collaboration. Architected with clean separation of stateless and stateful services. Isolated from server and operating system dependencies. Deployed on self-service elastic cloud infrastructure. Managed through agile DevOps processes. Automated capabilities. And the last one, Defined policy-driven resource allocation. And as you see, those are all very much up for interpretation or implementations. So, a cloud native app from my point of view tries to target most of these items and has an opinion on most of these items. So, a cloud native app isn’t just one thing. It is a mindset that I am running. Like I said before, I am running my software on other people’s computers, how can I best do this.? [0:34:58.1] CC: I added the link to our shownotes. When I look at this list, I don’t see observability. That word is not there. Does it fall under one of those points because observability is another new-ish term that seems to be in parcel of cloud native? Correct me here, people. [0:35:19.1] JR: I am. Actually, the eighth item, ‘Manage through agile DevOps processes,’ is actually – they don’t talk about monitoring observability. But for an application for a person who is not developing application, so whether you have a dev ops team or you have an SRE practice, you are going to have to be able to communicate the status and the application whether it be through metrics logs or metrics logs or whatever the other one is. I am thinking – traces. So that is actually I think is baked in it is just not called out. So, to get the proper DevOps you would need some observability that is how you get that status when you have a problem. [0:35:57.9] CC: So, this is how obscure these things can be. I just want to point this out. It is so frustrating, so literally we have item eight, which Brian has been, as the main developer so he is super knowledgeable. He can look at that and know what it means. But I look at that and the words log metrics, observability none of these words are there and yet Brian knew that that is what it means that that is what he meant. And I don’t disagree with him. I can see it now but why does it have to be so obscure? [0:36:29.7] JR: I think a big thing to consider too is like it very much lands on spectrum, right? Like something you would ask Carlisia is how do I qualify if my app is cloud native or what do I need to do? And you know a lot of people in my experience are just adopting parts of this list and that’s totally fine. You know worrying about whether you fully qualify as a cloud native app since we have talked about it as more of a set of principles is something – I don’t know if there is too too much value in worrying about whether you can block that label onto your app as much as it is, “Oh I can see our organization our applications having these problems.” Like lacking portability when we move them across providers or going back to observability, not being able to know what is going on inside of the application and where the network packets are headed and they switched to being asked we’re late to see these happening. And as those problems come on, really looking at and adopting these principles where it is appropriate. Sometimes it might not be with the engineering efforts without them, one of the more cloud native principles. You know you just have to pick and choose what is most valuable to you. [0:37:26.7] BL: Yes, and actually this is what we should be doing as experts, as thought-leaders, as industry movers and shakers. Our job is to make this easier for people coming behind us. At one time, it was hard to even start an application or start your operating system. Remember when we had to load AN1, you know? Remember we had to do that back in the day on our basic, on our Comado64’s or Apple or Apple2. Now you turn your computer on and it comes with instantly. We click on application and it works. We need to actually bring this whole cloud movement to that point where things like if you include these libraries and you code with these API’s you get automatic observability. And I am saying that with air quotes but you get the ability to have this thing to monitor it in some fashion. If you use this practice and you have this stack, CI/CD should be super simple for you and we are just not quite there yet. And that is why the industry is definitely rotating around this and that is why there has been a lot of buzz around cloud native and Kubernetes is because people are looking at this to actually solve a lot of these problems that we’ve had. Because they just haven’t been solvable because everybody stacks are too different. But this one though, the reason Linux is I think ultimately successful is because it allowed us to do things and all of these Linux things we liked and it worked on all sorts of computers. And it got that mindset behind it behind companies. Kubernetes could also do this. It allows us to think about our data centers as potentially one big computer or fewer computers that allows us to make sure things are running. And once we have this, now we can develop new tools that will help us with our observability, with our getting software into production and upgraded and where we need it. [0:39:17.1] NL: Awesome. So, on that, we are going to have to wrap up for this week. Let’s go ahead and do a round of closing thoughts. [0:39:22.7] JR: I don’t know if I have any closing thoughts. But it was a pleasure talking about cloud native applications with you all. Thanks. [0:39:28.1] BL: Yeah, I have one thought is that all of these things that we are talking about it sounds kind of daunting. But it is better that we can have these conversations and talk about things that don’t work rather than not knowing what to talk about in general. So this is a journey for us and I hope you come for more of our journey. [0:39:46.3] CC: First I was going to follow up on Josh and say I am thoughtless. But now I want to fill up on Brian’s and say, no I have no opinions. It is very much what Brian said for me, the bridging of what we can do using cloud native infrastructure in what we read about it and what we hear about it like for people who are not actually doing it is so hard to connect one with the other. I hope by being here and asking questions and answering questions and hopefully people will also be very interactive with us. And ask us to talk about things they want to know that we all try to connect it too little by little. I am not saying it is rocket science and nobody can understand it. I am just saying for some people who don’t have multi background experience, they might have big gaps. [0:40:38.7] NL: And that is for sure. This was a very useful episode for me. I am glad to know that everybody else is just as confused at what cloud native applications actually mean. So that was awesome. It was a very informative episode for me and I had a lot of fun doing it. So, thank you all for having me. Thank you for joining us on this week of the Kublets Podcast. And I just want to wish our friend Brian a very happy birthday. Bye you all. [0:41:03.2] CC: Happy birthday Brian. [0:41:04.7] BL: Ahhhh. [0:41:05.9] NL: All right, bye everyone. [END OF EPISODE] [0:41:07.5] ANNOUNCER: Thank you for listening to The Podlets Cloud Native Podcast. Find us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/ThePodlets and on the http://thepodlets.io/ website, where you'll find transcripts and show notes. We'll be back next week. Stay tuned by subscribing. [END]See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Pastor Andy Davis preaches a verse by verse expository sermon on Luke 24:44-53. The main subject of the sermon is the sacrifices of God's people that lead to the accomplishment of the Great Commission. - Sermon Transcript- Turn in your Bibles to Luke 24. And as I mentioned in my prayer, this is the time of year that we focus on unreached people groups, on missions. We have something called The Lottie Moon Christmas Offering named after a woman named Charlotte Moon, shortened to Lottie Moon, who was a missionary that served in China for many years, 39 years. She ran a school for girls in Tengzhou and also in Pingdu, and she burned with a strong passion to reach girls, those girls for Christ and women, to bring them to faith in Christ and anyone that she could talk to about the gospel. She regularly baked fresh cookies, and the aroma, as it would waft from where she lived, from the kitchen would be attractive to people. You talk about the aroma of Christ, it was initially the aroma of cookies and it brought people in. But as she would share those cookies, she would also share with whoever partook share the gospel. She was especially known for writing moving and passionate letters to Baptists in the US to support missions. That more people would go out as missionaries, that those that didn't go would support with more money, and her letters home detailed China's hunger for truth and the struggle of so few missionaries taking the gospel to almost half a billion at that point, Chinese, in her day. And so she pleaded for more workers and for more money, and she once wrote home to what was called the Foreign Mission Board at that point, "Please say to the new missionaries that are coming that they are coming to a life of hardship, responsibility, and constant self-denial.” A life of sacrifice, disease, turmoil, lack of co-workers threatened to undo Lottie's work but she gave herself consistently to the work of the Lord, and she worked with others to help lay a foundation for a church of Christians in China that is really uncounted. We don't have any idea how many Chinese Christians there are, but we will know on Judgment Day what her labors, her sacrifices, and that of many others have done in the lives of the Chinese. She died as a direct result of her self-denying, self-sacrificial life, as there was a famine in that part of China at that point, and she denied her own food to the point where it was beyond help as people knew that she was dying, but they knew it too late. The Woman's Missionary Union started The Lottie Moon Christmas Offering in 1918 to honor her sacrifices and to move Southern Baptists to similar sacrifices for the sake of the gospel. The Lottie Moon Christmas Offering makes up more than half of the annual budget of the International Mission Board, so every dollar that we give to The Lottie Moon Christmas Offering goes directly overseas to winning lost people. Now, FBC's goal this year is $150,000. And it's our desire that every man, woman, and child, as a member of this church or involved in this church should weigh carefully what God is calling him or her to do, that we would pray about it, think about it, what level of sacrifice. It's easy... It's kind of out of sight, out of mind. It's easy for us to forget about missionaries, and it's easy for us to forget about people like we just saw in the video, who have no access to the gospel. They're living in countries where it's very, very hard to hear of Christ and we are called on to be people of faith. Who see invisible things and they press on our minds, we see not only those folks who are in different parts of the world, but we see ahead in time to what Judgment Day is going to be like, and we yearn that people be made ready to stand before God, having been cleansed from their sins through faith in the blood of Christ. And so, our desire is to focus, and what I wanna do is root this Great Commission in the Scripture that you just heard Bob read for us, that we would understand that this is not some new thing that was thrown together, but it's been going on not just for 2000 years, but even before that, as Jesus says in Luke 24, it was founded on the Old Testament Scriptures. And so we're gonna walk through that today, and I want you to see how it's rooted in Scripture, and to understand the sacrifice, the central sacrifice of Jesus Christ, it's the center of the gospel. But then the lesser sacrifices that are essential to the spread of the gospel that our brothers and sisters have done who are willing to suffer and deprive themselves and go through difficulties so that lost people may hear of the gospel. And then thirdly, that each of us would weigh our own involvement in that and see what God is calling us to do. I. Central Sacrifice of the Great Commission: The Death of the Christ So let's zero in this morning as we begin on the central sacrifice of the Great Commission, the death of Jesus Christ. Now, the Great Commission is found in five different places at the end of each of the Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; each has their own version of the Great Commission. So he gave it multiple times slightly different language, and then again in the Book of Acts, that the disciples are responsible to move out from Jerusalem through Judea and Samaria to the ends of the earth with the gospel. But we're gonna look at Luke 24 and look at verses 44-47, “And he said to them, This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled, that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the prophets and the Psalms. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, This is what is written, that Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” So the centerpiece of the Great Commission, the centerpiece of the gospel is the death of Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Now, picture in your mind this powerful poignant scene there in the upper room, Christ had died on the cross, the third day he came to life again. The women had just come back from the empty tomb. And they had declared it to be empty, they said that they had had an encounter with the resurrected Christ, and Jesus had told them to go to report to his brothers what they had seen and that he was risen, and they did so. The upper room where they were meeting together was the place where Jesus had had the last supper with his disciples just days before that. And so they were there in the Upper Room in Jerusalem with a tiny church, and now they were assembled there in fear and bewilderment. John's Gospel tells us that they were in there with the doors locked for fear of the Jews. So they were afraid of dying, they were afraid of being arrested, they were afraid of suffering the same faith that Jesus had being crucified. Now, in Luke's Gospel, the reaction is emotional and powerful. Look at verses 36-43. “Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, ‘Peace be with you’, but they were startled and frightened, thinking that they saw a ghost. He said to them, ‘Why are you troubled? Why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet, it is I myself. Touch me and see. A ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see, I have’. And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, ‘Do you have anything here to eat?’ They gave him a piece of broiled fish and he took it and ate it in their presence.” So Jesus is offering them what Luke tells us in the Book of Acts, in Acts chapter 1, many convincing proofs that he was alive. And why did he have to do this? Because they couldn't seem to believe their eyes. It was too good to be true. You ever heard that expression before? It's just too good to be true. You realize how essentially pessimistic that is. I mean, anything really good can't be true, but that's effectively what the text says. They could not believe it for joy. I mean, joy means it can't be true. “Friends, let me tell you something. Beyond your wildest dreams, God is gonna lavishly bless you for eternity in the new heaven and new earth. It's going to be greater than anything you can possibly imagine. In one sense, you could say the whole thing is turned around, it's too good not to be true. That's how good God is.” " God is gonna lavishly bless you for eternity in the new heaven and new earth. It's going to be greater than anything you can possibly imagine." But they couldn't believe it, and so he's got to give them all these convincing proofs. People just don't die and come to life again. It just doesn't happen. When somebody's dead, they stay dead. And so he's got to do all these things. He says, Look at my wounds, touch me and see, look at my hands, look at my feet. Do you have anything here to eat? So he eats some broiled fish. All of this physicality to prove that he had really physically been raised from the dead. That's the centerpiece. His death and his resurrection from the dead is the centerpiece of the gospel. And then Jesus explains all of this and roots it in the prophetic writings. He roots it in Scripture. And why is that? Because none of us can touch him and see. We don't get to watch him chew and swallow broiled fish. We don't get to put our fingers in the nail marks. We're going to get it from Scripture or we're not gonna get it at all. And what Jesus shows us is that the Scripture's predated his birth. These things have been predicted, they'd been written about in the Law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms. This was not new, any new thing, but the Lord had told ahead of time what he would do. Look at Verse 44, he said, “This is what I told you while I was still with you, everything must be fulfilled about me that is written in the Law of Moses, the prophets, and the Psalms.” Now, without the direct work of almighty God on their minds and on yours and mine, we'll never believe it. We'll never believe it. Our hearts are so hardened in sin. We are so far from God. We are so, so corrupted and twisted, but because of our sins and the sins of the people we live around, it's hard for us to believe God's Word. We need him to work directly on our hardened hearts. And so look what it says in verse 45, what a marvelous verse. “Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.” I think that's something we should pray about as we have our quiet times, don't you think? As we go before the Lord and we open up the Bible, say, O God, through your Holy Spirit, would you just open my mind that I might understand the Scriptures? Help me to see what's written here so it's not just some empty words that don't mean anything to me. He opened their minds, and isn't it marvelous that he has that kind of power? He actually has access to your mind, he has access to your heart, and he can open it up to his working through the Word of God. And so, he then roots his atonement in Scripture. Look at verse 46, “This is what is written, that Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day.” So all of this thing had been predicted in Scripture, God had planned it before the foundation of the world, but he had begun to pay out the truth little by little, right from the beginning in the Garden of Eden, how the serpent came and deceived Adam and Eve, and God cursed the serpent. And in Genesis 3:15, he said, “I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your offspring and hers. He will crush your head and you'll bruise his heel.” And so that was the prediction of how Jesus, by his death, would crush Satan who held the power of death. Genesis 3:15, that's right from the beginning, and then right after that comes the animal sacrificial system. Even that same day, as their eyes are open, they realized they were naked, God clothed them with animal skins so that in the next chapter, Abel began offering animal sacrifice. And so throughout the Old Testament, we have animals sacrifice, the blood of bulls and goats and sheep offered under the command of God, but all of them as a picture of Christ's blood sacrifice on the cross. And the lessons are very plain and clear. All sin deserves the death penalty. The death penalty can be paid by a substitute, but the substitute can't be an animal. It's just symbolic. Those were the lessons of the animal sacrificial system, but it was all written there in the Law of Moses. And we have the story, of course, of the Exodus. Remember the 10 dreadful plagues that persuaded Pharaoh to let the Jewish people go out of bondage into the freedom of the promised land? And the last plague was the most dreadful, the most terrible, the plague on the firstborn. And God commanded the Jewish people that they should sacrifice the Passover Lamb, they should kill the lamb and paint its blood on the doorpost and on the lintel of their doors, and the angel of death would see the blood and pass over and would not bring the righteous judgment of God on the sinners inside that house. For all have sinned, the Jews had sinned too, but God had provided for an atoning sacrifice. And so that taught a very important lesson, and it's important for the Great Commission, that our salvation comes in two basic steps: Redemption accomplished and applied. The redemption is accomplished by the blood sacrifice of Jesus, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world once for all, never to be repeated. Never needs to be repeated. That's why it's different than the animal sacrifices that had to be repeated endlessly year after year. But Jesus once for all died in our place. That's redemption accomplished, and Jesus said, It is finished, and that's it. Nothing more needed. But then step two, the blood has to be spiritually painted on individual sinners, the redemption has to be applied, and that happens by the Great Commission, it happens by evangelism and missions, by people who have the message of the gospel traveling, it might be just across the office, it might be across the street in evangelism, or it could be to the ends of the earth in missions, and take that message of the gospel and apply it so that people hear it and believe, and the blood gets spiritually applied to us and we are forgiven of our sins. And he said All of that was predicted in the Law of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms. II. The Great Commission Stated Plainly You heard the text that Jason read, Isaiah 53, “All we like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way, and the Lord has laid on him, on Christ, the iniquity of us all.” That's written seven centuries before Jesus was born. So Jesus lays out these Scriptures for them. Everything that was planned and then written about in the Scriptures had to be fulfilled. And so that is the deliverance of the world from sin, the shedding of the blood of Christ once for all, and then the application of that message to the Great Commission. And the Great Commission stated plainly, look at verse 46-48, he told them, “This is what is written, that Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.” So Christ has entrusted to his disciples the proclamation of the gospel message. Look carefully at the words, repentance, and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations. There is one Savior, one redeemer, the Christ whose blood alone atones for sin, but this one message of the one redemption has to be taken to distant parts of the earth. And Jesus says, You are witnesses of these things. Now, witnesses, they were eyewitnesses. Mary, the mother of Jesus, was there in the upper room with the early church. And I think a lot of that information we get that we... This time of year, as we read in Luke chapter 2 about the birth of Jesus probably came humanly speaking through Mary, as she shared the experiences that she had as a virgin, bringing the only begotten Son of God, fully man, fully God into this world. You're witnesses of these things, of how he lived a sinless life among them, and how he did great signs and wonders. There was no healing he could not do, there was no... Nothing too difficult for him. He gave great displays of power like stilling the storm and feeding the 5000, all these incredible miracles. You are witnesses of these things. You saw them with your own eyes, and you saw me die on the cross, you saw me dead, and you saw me now, you're seeing me now physically raised from the dead. You are witnesses of these things. These facts are essential to the gospel, and repentance and forgiveness of sins proclaimed in his name to all nations beginning at Jerusalem. Oh, what glorious good news that is for all of us. All of us, if we repent of our sins, turn away from darkness, turn away from wickedness and turn to God; if we repent of our sins, forgiveness of sins will be ours through faith in Christ. Not by works, but by simple faith. That's the gospel, and that message will be preached in his name to the ends of the earth. That's the Great Commission. Now, the Great Commission was written in the Old Testament, not just that Christ would die, but that the message would be carried by messengers from Jerusalem through Judea, Samaria, to the ends of the earth. That was predicted too. From the original call of Abraham, where God says, I will bless those who bless you. I'll curse whoever curses you, and through your offspring, all peoples on earth will be blessed. Peoples means nations. So from the calling of the Jewish nation, God had intended to bless all nations on earth. And then Psalm 2 in verse 8, “Where God the Father says to the Son, Ask of me and I'll give you the nations as your inheritance. The ends of the earth, your possession.” That's in the Psalms. And then at the end of Isaiah 66. I love this verse. This is one of these Great Commission verses. Listen to this, Isaiah 66:19, "I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who survive," some of the remnants, "to the nations, to Tarshish," that's in Spain, "to the Libyans," North Africa and Lydians, Central Asia, famous as archers, to Tubal and Greece. And listen to this, "to the distant islands that have not heard of my fame or seen my glory. And they will proclaim my glory among the nations." Isaiah 66:19, the Great Commission was written. Jesus said, "This is what is written, repentance and forgiveness of sins we preached to the ends of the earth." So only as this gospel is proclaimed can people in those distant lands, like we saw in that video, hear the Gospel message and believe. But the power of the Great Commission always has been the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit. We wouldn't have moved... As a church, we would not have moved out of the upper room if it weren't for the power of the Holy Spirit. Even after seeing evidence of Jesus's conquest of death, a week later, they're still in the upper room with the doors locked. And Jesus said, "You must stay in Jerusalem until you are clothed with power from on high. You're gonna receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you. And you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and Judea, Samaria, to the ends of the earth. Again and again, our brothers and sisters that have stepped out in faith and have traveled through the centuries to distant lands to share the gospel have testified it was only by the compulsion of the spirit in their hearts that they left behind their friends and family and went to dangerous places. III. The Subsequent Sacrifices of the Great Commission The Spirit moved them. Now, you may say, "I don't feel like I'm called to be a missionary." Maybe you're not. Not many are called to actually go to cross-cultural settings and do that, not many, but some. But we are, all of us, called to travel from point A to point B. Like I said, it could be across an office to an unsaved co-worker. And you may feel, "I don't think I can do that." Well, it's the same feeling. It's the same fear. It's the same Holy Spirit that enables us, driven and compelled by love to share the Gospel with people. You receive power, and you'll be my witnesses. Since that time, it's been a river of sacrifice. Brothers and sisters have been willing to lay it on the line to take the Gospel from Jerusalem, through Judea, Samaria, to the ends of the earth. They've been willing to sacrifice. It's amazing, Jesus was a prophet. He made predictions. And he said, "This thing here, 120 in the upper room, is not gonna stay here. It's going to go to the ends of the earth." Now, a prophet has to be vindicated by his predictions coming true. Well, that prediction has famously come true. There is not a political nation on earth represented at the United Nations in which there is not a church of Jesus Christ with people assembling to meet and worship Christ. There are hundreds of millions of Christians spread all over the Earth. His words have come true. It's not done yet, but His words have come true. His prediction has happened. In every generation, the Holy Spirit sees to it that Jesus's name is the most famous human name on earth. There is no more famous human being than Jesus in every generation. The Holy Spirit sees to it. Better than any PR department getting the name of some rock star out, that fades like grass within two or three generations. Every generation, Jesus is the greatest name because the Holy Spirit sees to it. This has happened. Now, when I look at the prediction of the distant islands, I thought, "I wonder what the most distant island is." So bear with me for the next few moments as I Googled, "Where is the farthest place from Jerusalem on planet Earth?" Remember, it's a globe, so if you go around too far, it goes back the other way. So I've asked numbers of friends. Some of them said "LA" for a lot of reasons. Others, "Alaska," different things. Well, are you ready? The most distant island on planet Earth are the Pitcairn Islands in the South Pacific. The Pitcairn, you say, "What is that?" Have you ever heard of "Mutiny on the Bounty"? It was a movie. And some mutineers went and they overthrew Captain Bligh, and they took over. And they knew that they were gonna get hunted down by the British Navy, and so they were looking for someplace. They stumbled upon some uncharted island about 1500 miles southeast of Tahiti. It is 11,305 miles from Jerusalem. Now, you'd say, "Well, that doesn't count, Pastor, there were no people there when they landed." But they landed there, and they had some battles within themselves. There was some murder that took place. And the few that were left repented of their sins and started reading the Bible and set up a flourishing, strong Christian community that's still there. And a whaler came 18 years later, just saw this uncharted island, went ashore to see if there's any water, and found a church and Christians there praising God. You just say, "Alright, but that was inhabited. What about any habited islands?" Yes, New Zealand is the farthest inhabited island. And the history of the Gospel in New Zealand is fascinating. How it was first discovered by an explorer named Tasman, and he eventually gave his name to Tasmania. And he prayed over those islands, that God's purpose would be done there. James Cook came over a century, more a century and a half later, prayed about the same prayer. Eventually, God sent some missionaries. And they took on the fierce Maori people, who were war-like cannibals, and won many of them to faith in Christ. A marvelous story. And so you have Christ's church there in Auckland and those areas. That's as far as it gets from Jerusalem. And God's Word has been fulfilled. Now, in every generation, the church has advanced the Gospel at very high cost. It's been a trail of blood, brothers, and sisters, a trail of blood. And Paul saw it coming. It was already happening in his own life. In Colossians, Chapter 1, Verse 24 and 25, he said, "Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions for the sake of His body, which is the church. I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the Word of God in its fullness." That's my commission. And he's fulfilling it by writing the letter to the Colossians. But he had not been there. He didn't plant that church. And he said, "I rejoice in what was suffered by the men and women that did come with the message of the Gospel. And they suffered, and I rejoice in that suffering. And I'm filling up in my flesh what's lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions for the sake of His body." What does that mean? Careful of blasphemy here. There's nothing lacking in redemption accomplished. It was accomplished once for all. But what's lacking is the second step, it has to be applied. And that takes suffering. And Paul says, "I rejoice in that suffering. I rejoice in it." Now, the Gospel spread. Initially, the persecutors were unbelieving Jews who had not yet crossed over to faith in Christ, and so they kick people out of their synagogues, and they wouldn't buy and sell from them. They arrested them, even beat some of them. Read about it in the Book of Acts. But then the Romans took over and began persecuting. And for a couple of centuries, there was on and off persecution by the Roman emperors and by the Roman authorities. Even spilling our brothers' and sisters' blood in the sands of the Colosseum until at last that ended with Constantine's conversion, hope it was genuine, in 312. And Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. Remarkable proof of the spread of the Gospel. Whether he was genuinely converted or not, he saw it at least politically expedient to declare himself a Christian. Incredible, in a very short amount of time. But the Gospel didn't stop there. It continued to spread among the barbarian tribes, tribes of Germania. They're terrifying, militaristic. And missionaries went out and were willing to suffer and even die to bring those Germanic-speaking people to faith in Christ. And up to the islands of what we call the British Isles, Britannia, and again, the fierce peaks in the Scottish Highlands, being willing to take on courageously tribal chieftains that would have and were ready to slaughter them. But they won many of them to Christ. This has been going on in every generation.As it says in John 12:24, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a kernel of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains by itself a single seed. But if it dies, it brings forth much fruit." And so that has been the principle, Christians willing to lay down their lives, willing to die for the spread of the gospel. Now, for me, I love missionary hero stories. I just love reading about people like Lottie Moon or others. I especially like stories I haven't heard. So that's hard to Google. "Stories Andy Davis hasn't heard yet on missions" came up empty. But there is one book I was reading recently of a number of missionaries I had never heard of. And one of them, amazingly, was a man named James Gilmore in the 19th century, who was a missionary to Mongolia. I really believe we just saw mission work among the Mongolians. They just said Central Asia, they didn't say exactly, but those yurts are Mongolian style. And I wonder if those brothers and sisters are from Mongolia. I don't know for sure, but I know this, that James Gilmore, a Scottish missionary to Mongolia, suffered as much as any, just the physical deprivations of working in such a hostile land. The land itself is vast. It's about the size of the American West. And this man just went on foot, sometimes walking, hiking up to 40 miles a day on foot. He originally began as a missionary in China, but then went into the northern regions, to the Mongolians. And they're very spread out. They're herdsmen, and they move around. Their yurts, their tents travel. And so he went from place to place. It's a cold land. Sometimes the temperatures plummet as low as 40 degrees below zero. He endured long spells of hunger and thirst on his treks. His target people, the Mongolians, dwelled in filthy, vermin-infested yurts. They were very nasty places. And he would go in there, and he would share the Gospel. He would seek to win them from animism and Buddhism, Lamaistic Buddhism. And they were very... A lot of them struggled with drunkenness, with violence, with thievery. And as he would witness to them, he would do rudimentary medical care, basic medical things like extracting bad teeth and other things like that. He was not a trained medical worker, but he knew some basic things, and people would come and he would care for them. And he would share simple Bible stories and the simple life of Jesus, His death on the cross, His resurrection. And he was there for four years of diligent sacrificial labor, James Gilmore. In 1874, he could not count a single convert, and he went beyond that. There was not even a single person that he felt was interested in the Gospel. Imagine doing that kind of work for four years. But he was concerned that no Mongolian he ever talked to did not come to faith in Christ because of a lack of clear, passionate proclamation of the Gospel. That's what he said. He wanted to be certain no Mongolian would be justified in pitching into us for not pitching into them more savagely. Listen to that, pitching into them savagely, for not, in fact, taking them by the cuff of the neck and dragging them into the kingdom. Sounds a little like a frustrated missionary after a while, but sharing the Gospel, it's like, "I'm gonna drag you into the kingdom." But there's no physical place to go. It has to be by hearing and believing. And after four years, no response. He left for a short time and then came back in 1884. And he finally won his first convert. He was in a dirty Mongolian tent. There was a fire in the center of the tent. There's generally smoke in there, but this was unusually bad because an outsider came in and started stirring up the smoldering log, filling the yurt with noxious smoke. And so he was getting as low as he could to just get some air in the tent. But then out of the cloud... He couldn't even see the man. Out of the cloud, this man spoke, "I have for months been a learner of Jesus Christ, and now I am ready to trust Him." Gilmore said of that moment, "The place was as beautiful to me as the gate of heaven, and the words of the confession of Christ from out of that cloud of smoke were as inspiring to me as if they had been spoken by an angel from out of the cloud of glory." They left the yurt. They walked together for 23 miles, talking about Christian theology. You have a 23-mile walk with a man, what are you gonna tell him? So he did basic Christian follow-up. They hugged each other. They knelt together and prayed. And then as far as I know, James Gilmore never saw that man again. Gilmore continued to travel in native fashion. He walked everywhere. He ate porridge. He lived on equivalent of about six cents a day. During one eight-month stretch, he preached to almost 24,000 people, sold 3000 Christian books, saw about 6000 patients with rudimentary medical treatments, distributed 4500 tracks, traveled almost 1900 miles, spent about $200 on himself for his own needs, and reported that in all of that, only two individuals came to faith in Christ. So as I look at that, I think, "Pastor, couldn't you have chosen a more triumphant story?" There are many more triumphant stories, but do you not see the grace of God in that? His relentless commitment to share even if he doesn't get the response. That's all we're called to do. You can't grab someone by the scruff of the neck and drag them into the kingdom, but we can, at great cost, be willing to take the message to them. He reminds me of what it says in that hall of faith in Hebrews 11:37-38, "They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated. The world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains and in caves and holes in the ground." IV. The Heavenly Celebrations Awaiting These Sacrifices Now, I believe when we get to heaven, we're going to celebrate brothers and sisters that sacrifice like Lottie Moon and like James Gilmore. We're gonna celebrate them. And you have, and so do I, a massive education waiting for you on the history of missions. And you're not gonna be bored at all because I really believe God's gonna not just tell you about it, but show it to you. And you're gonna get to know them, these heroes, and all of them are going to testify that whatever glory they have for their sacrificial service belongs to Christ. And they're going to lay their crowns before Jesus. As I was doing leaves a couple of days ago, I was thinking about these hero stories and brothers and sisters and the honor that's gonna come in heaven to them. But I was also thinking about that song "God and God Alone" by Steve Green. And I was thinking, "All the glory goes to him." And these heroes and heroines are gonna say that. They're gonna cast their crowns, all of them, before the Lord. And I thought about that scene in Revelation, chapter 5, where the scroll is in the right hand of God Almighty. He sits on the throne. And a search is made in heaven and earth and under the Earth, and no one is found who is worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, except Jesus. And so we're gonna celebrate and honor the sacrifices that were made. We're going to rightly celebrate them. We're gonna learn. We're not gonna feel jealous of them. We're gonna honor them, even if they are greater sacrifices than our own. And many of them will be greater than our own. And they'll have a greater place of glory than we do. But all glory goes to Christ, so there is no one like him, and his alone is the glory of the King of kings and the Lord of lords. He alone had the right to take the scroll and open its seals. Now, I read other stories, and they're exciting. You wanna hear some of them? Come to me afterwards, and I'll tell you more. One particular man in Japan left during the period in the middle of the 19th century, when it was illegal for Japanese to leave Japan. They couldn't leave their own country. He had come across the track, had become a Christian. He wanted to get theologically trained. His name is Joseph Nisima. He was in the bottom of a boat that was a junk, that was traveling to China, and he hid under some ropes. And he eventually went to Andover Seminary, right near where I went to seminary, was theologically trained, went back to Japan and set up a school for boys, and led hundreds of Japanese boys to faith in Christ. I can't wait to meet him. I was a missionary, my wife and I were missionaries in Japan. And it's hard work there, very slow, not a lot of converts. Then there's George Mackay, who worked in Formosa, now known as Taiwan, among some headhunters who collected the heads of their victims. This guy went up into the mountainous regions of Formosa, Taiwan, and shared the Gospel in tents in which their heads strung together, all around there. And they liked him because, like James Gilmore, he was good at extracting bad teeth. So that's very painful, and so he's able to pull it out and alleviate their pain, they're willing to listen to the gospel. And he led a number of them to faith in Christ. So those were sacrifices that have been made. People that are willing to go into dangerous places and share the gospel. The question that's in front of us now, this month and really year-round, not just because of the Lottie Moon Christmas offering, but because we're Christians, because we read the Scripture, we see it. We can feel what it was like to be in the upper room. What are we called to do? V. A Call for You to Sacrifice for the Great Commission And it always must begin with prayer. Start by presenting yourself as a living sacrifice and saying, "Lord, what am I to do for unreached people groups? What involvement do you want me to have?" One of the benefits we have of being in this church is we have a number of friends that are serving amongst unreached people groups right now. If you wanna know their names, come to any of the elders or church members, we'll tell you who they are and what people groups they're working with. You can pray for them. And in this day and age, we can even stay in contact with them and ask how we can pray for them this week. The home fellowships have adopted missionaries. Be faithful in praying for them. Find out what their needs are, so we can be praying and lifting them up. You know how Paul says that we should join our brothers and sisters that are in prison as if we were in prison with them. Well, I think the same mentality, we can join people in their struggles for missions as if we are fellow missionaries with them through prayer. “We can join people in their struggles for missions as if we are fellow missionaries with them through prayer.” Secondly, financial giving. I'm very well aware that a couple of weeks ago, I urged you to consider your involvement in the More than a Building campaign, and that continues to be a need. We borrowed money, and we're going to pay it back at interest. The sooner you can give, the less money and interest we'll pay. It'll be better for the Kingdom. And that's still true, but I think we have enough bandwidth, don't we, to also think about missions. We have enough bandwidth to say, "There's that, but there's also unreached people groups." And we have the chance, as Southern Baptists, to give money directly to brothers and sisters that are gonna go and serve into the distant most parts of the earth. We can share through them financially in giving. So just go before the Lord and say, "Lord, what do you want me to give to unreached people group missions?" And then finally, go. So what does this mean? It means look for opportunities to go. We have a mission trip going to Taiwan. I don't know if there are any openings on that, but we're gonna be regularly going overseas on short-term mission trips. But there may be some of you that God may be calling. No matter what stage of life you're in, it's amazing how many opportunities there are, how many pathways there are to go and serve overseas. One family, the Hausons, were sitting in pews just like you folks. He had a successful consulting business, consulting job, and was doing very well, but God called him out of that to go do business missions in North Africa. And he's serving now. I talk to him every other week and get prayer requests from him. God called him out of a situation just like you guys are in, sitting there in the pew, to serve in cross-cultural missions. So what is God calling you to do? What will you be glad that you did when you get to Judgment Day? What will you be eternally glad that you did in heaven? What can we celebrate for the glory of God? What sacrifices are you willing to make? Close with me in prayer. Father, we thank you for the Word of God. We thank you for what it does in our hearts and our minds. Thank you for how the Great Commission is a timeless work. It is something that you planned before the foundation of the world, that Christ would be slain for the elect. From before the foundation of the world, that plan was made. And now, the call on us, that central sacrifice has been once for all made, now you're calling us to other sacrifices, that the gospel might be applied to those who, right now, as I speak, are not yet Christians. And so I pray, O Lord, that you would please call us to willing, cheerful sacrifice for the spread of the gospel. We pray in Jesus' name, Amen.