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What if I told you that there's a way to keep yourself young? It takes a lot of hard work, and it's a continuing process. However, the payoff is definitely worth it. It also offers a lot of benefits aside from longevity. The secret? It's developing a lifelong passion for learning and growing. In this episode, Craig Harper joins us once again to explain the value of having a growth mindset. We explore how you can keep yourself young and healthy even as you chronologically age. He also emphasises the importance of fun and laughter in our lives. Craig also shares how powerful our minds are and how we can use them to manage our pain.    If you want to know how to develop a growth mindset for a fuller life, then this episode is for you!   Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.   Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer  Without Burnout & Injuries Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles? Do you want to beat last year's time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler? ​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?  Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.   Health Optimisation and Life Coaching If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you. If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or are wanting to take your performance to the next level and learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.   Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless. For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.   Lisa's Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements  NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time. What is NMN? 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Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined Cellular Health Energy & Focus Bone Density Skin Elasticity DNA Repair Cardiovascular Health Brain Health  Metabolic Health   My  ‘Fierce' Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.   Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: Learn how to develop a growth mindset to keep yourself young and healthy, regardless of your chronological age. Understand why you need to manage your energy and plan fun and laughter into your life. Discover the ways you can change your mindset around pain.    Resources Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! Listen to other Pushing the Limits Episodes: #60: Ian Walker - Paraplegic Handbiker - Ultra Distance Athlete #183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova #188: Awareness and Achieve High Performance with Craig Harper  #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova Connect with Craig: Website | Instagram | Linkedin Interested to learn more from Craig? You can check out his books and his podcast, The You Project. T: The Story of Testosterone by Carole Hooven  Mind Over Medicine by Lissa Rankin M.D. Lifespan - Why We Age and Why We Don't Have To  by David A. Sinclair PhD Neuroscience professor Andrew Huberman's Instagram  Dr Rhonda Patrick's website A new program, BoostCamp, is coming this September at Peak Wellness!   Episode Highlights [06:50] A Growth Mindset Keeps Us Young and Healthy It's helpful to take advantage of the availability of high-level research and medical journals online. If you're prepared to do the hard work, you can learn anything.  Learning and exposing ourselves to new things are crucial parts of staying young and healthy.  Age is a self-created story.  With a growth mindset, you can change how your body and mind works so that you feel younger than your real age.  [12:23] Develop a Growth Mindset It's vital to surround yourself with people with the same mindset — people who drag you up, not down.  You can also get a similar experience by exposing yourself to good ideas and stories. Be aware of what you're feeding your mind, on top of what you're feeding your body.  School is not a marker of your intelligence. Your academic failures do not matter.  With a growth mindset, you can keep growing and learning.  [17:40] Let Go and Be Happy People tend to have career and exercise plans, but not a fun plan.  We can't be serious all the time — we also need time to have fun and laugh.  Laughter can impact and improve the immune system. Laughing can change the biochemistry of your brain. Plan for the future, but also learn to live in the now. Having a growth mindset is important, but so is finding joy and enjoyment.  [23:31] Look After Your Energy Having fun and resting can impact your energy and emotional system.  These habits can help you work faster than when you're just working all the time.  Remember, volume and quality of work are different.  [30:24] Work-Life Balance Many people believe that they need to balance work and life. However, when you find your passion, it's just life.  Even doing 20 hours of work for a job you hate is worse than 40 hours of doing something you love. There's no one answer for everyone. Everything is a lot more flexible than before. Find what works for you.  [35:56] Change the Way You Think It's unavoidable that we think a certain way because of our upbringing.  Start to become aware of your lack of awareness and your programming.  Learn why you think of things the way you do. Is it because of other people?  Be influenced by other people, but test their ideas through trial and error. Let curiosity fuel your growth mindset.  Listen to the full podcast to learn how Craig learned how to run his gym without a business background!  [44:18] Sharing Academic Knowledge Academics face many restrictions due to the nature and context of their work.  He encourages the academic community to communicate information to everyone, not just to fellow researchers.  He plans to publish a book about his PhD research to share what he knows with the public. Science is constantly changing. We need to keep up with the latest knowledge.   [50:55] Change Your Relationship with Pain There is no simple fix to chronic pain.  The most you can do is change your relationship and perception of pain.  Our minds are powerful enough to create real pain even without any physical injury. Listen to Craig and Lisa's stories about how our minds affect our pain in the full episode!   7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘My mind is the CEO of my life. So I need to make sure that as much as I can, that I'm managing my mind, and my mental energy optimally.' ‘If you're listening to this, and you didn't succeed in the school system, that means absolutely nothing when you're an adult.' ‘We're literally doing our biology good by laughing.' ‘Living is a present tense verb, you can't living in the future, and you can't live in the future.' ‘Often, more is not better. Sometimes more is worse.  So there's a difference between volume of work and output and quality of work.' ‘It's all about those people just taking one step at a time to move forward... That growth mindset that I think is just absolutely crucial.'   About Craig Craig Harper is one of Australia's leading educators, speakers, and writers in health and self-development. He has been an integral part of the Australian health and fitness industry since 1982. In 1990, he established a successful Harper's Personal Training, which evolved into one of the most successful businesses of its kind.  He currently hosts a successful Podcast called 'The You Project'. He is also completing a neuropsychology PhD, studying the spectrum of human thinking and behaviour. Craig speaks on various radio stations around Australia weekly. He currently fills an on-air role as a presenter on a lifestyle show called 'Get a Life', airing on Foxtel.  Want to know more about Craig and his work? Check out his website, or follow him on Instagram and Linkedin!   Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends! Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn how to develop a growth mindset. Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts. To pushing the limits, Lisa   Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com. Lisa Tamati: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits with Lisa Tamati. This week I have Craig Harper. He is really well known in Australia. He's a broadcaster, a fitness professional, a PhD scholar, an expert on metacognition, and self-awareness. And we get talking on all those good topics today and also neuro-psycho-immunology, very big word. Really interesting stuff; and we get talking about laughter, we get talking about pain management. We sort of go all over the show in this episode, which I sometimes do on this show. I hope you enjoy this very insightful and deep conversation with Craig Harper.  Before we head over to the show, I just want to let you know that Neil and I at Running Hot Coaching have launched a new program called Boost Camp. Now, this will be starting on the first of September and we're taking registrations now. This is a live eight-week program, where you'll basically boost your life. That's why it's called Boost Camp. not boot camp, Boost Camp. This is all about upgrading your body, learning how to help your body function at its base, learning how your mindset works, and increasing your performance, your health, your well-being and how to energise your mind and your body. In this Boost Camp, we're going to give you the answers you need in a simple, easy-to-follow process using holistic diagnostic tools and looking at the complete picture.  So you're going to go on a personalised health and fitness journey that will have a really life-changing effect on your family and your community. We're going to be talking about things like routine and resilience, mental resilience, which is a big thing that I love to talk about, and how important is in this time of change, in this time of COVID, where everything's upside down, and how we should be all building time and resources around building our resilience and energising our mind and body. We're going to give you a lot of health fundamentals. Because the fundamentals are something simple and easy to do, it means that you probably aren't doing some of the basics right, and we want to help you get there.  We're going to give you the answers you need in a simple, sort of easy, process. So we are now in a position to be able to control and manage all of these stressors and these things that are coming at us all the time, and we want to help you do that in the most optimal manner. So check out what boost camp is all about. Go to www.peakwellness.co.nz/boostcamp. I'll say that again, peakwellness.co.nz/boostcamp, boost with a B-O-O-S-T, boost camp. We hope to see you over there! Right, now over to the show with Craig Harper. Well, hi everyone and welcome to Pushing the Limits! Today, I have someone who is a special treat for you who has been on the show before. He's an absolute legend, and I love him to bits. Craig half and welcome to the show mate, how are you doing?  Craig Harper: Hi Lisa! I'm awesome but you're not.  Lisa: No I'm a bit of a miss, people. I've got shingles, a horrible, horrible virus that I advise nobody to get. Craig: What it— do we know what that's made? What causes it, or is it idiopathic as they say? Lisa: Yeah, no, it is from the chickenpox virus. Although, I've never, ever had that virus. So I'm like heck how, you know, it's related to the cold sore virus and all of that, which I definitely have had often. So it sits on the spinal cord, these little viruses, dormant and then one day when your immune systems are down, it decides to attack and replicate and go hard out. So yeah, that'll be the down for the count now for two and a half weeks. In a lot of pain, but— Craig: What is it like nerve pain or what kind of pain is it?  Lisa: Yes, it's nerve pain. So this one's actually, it hits different nerves in different people, depending on where it decides to pop out. My mum had the femoral nerve, which is one that goes right down from the backbone, quite high up on the backbone, down across the back and then down through the hip flexor and down the leg. I've got all these horrible looking sores, I look like a burn victim all the way down my leg and across my back. And it comes out through the muscles of your like, through the nerves and nerve endings and causes these blisters on top of the skin but it's the nerve pain that's really horrible because there's no comfortable position. There's no easy way to lie or sit and of course, when you're lying at night, it's worse. It's worse at nighttime than in the day. So I learned a lot about shingles. And as usual, we're using these obstacles to be a learning curve. Craig: Why on earth are you doing a bloody podcast? You should be relaxing. Lisa: You're important, you see. I had, you know, I had this appointment with you, and I honour my appointments, and I— Craig: Definitely not important. What's the typical treatment for shingles? Lisa: Well, actually, I wish I'd known this two weeks ago, I didn't know this, but I just had a Zoom call with Dave Asprey, you know, of Bulletproof fame, who is one of my heroes, and he's coming on the show, people, shortly. So that's really exciting. He told me to take something called BHT, butylated hydroxytoluene, which is a synthetic antioxidant. They actually use them in food additives, they said that kills that virus. So I'm like, ‘Right, get me some of that.' But unfortunately, I was already, it's— I only got it just yesterday, because I had to wait for the post. So I'm sort of hoping for a miracle in the next 24 hours.  Also, intravenous vitamin C, I've had three of those on lysine, which also helps. One of the funny things, before we get to the actual topic of the day, is I was taking something called L-Citrulline which helps with nitric oxide production and feeds into the arginine pathway. Apparently, while that's a good thing for most people, the arginine, if you have too much arginine in the body, it can lead to replication of this particular virus, which is really random and I only found that out after the fact. But you know, as a biohacker, who experiments sometimes you get it wrong.  Craig: Sometimes you turn left when you should have turned right.  Lisa: Yes. So that, you know, certainly took a lot of digging in PubMed to find that connection. But I think that's maybe what actually set it off. That combined with a pretty stressful life of like— Craig: It's interesting that you mentioned PubMed because like a lot of people now, you know how people warn people off going Dr Google, you know, whatever, right. But the funny thing is, you can forget Dr Google, I mean, Google's okay. But you can access medical journals, high level— I mean, all of the research journals that I access for my PhD are online. You can literally pretty much access any information you want. We're not talking about anecdotal evidence, and we're not talking about theories and ideas and random kind of junk. We're talking about the highest level research, you literally can find at home now. So if you know how to research and you know what you're looking for, and you can be bothered reading arduous academic papers, you can pretty much learn anything, to any level, if you're prepared to do the work and you know how— and you can be a little bit of a detective, a scientific detective.  Lisa: That is exactly, you know, what I keep saying, and I'm glad you said that because you are a PhD scholar and you are doing this. So you know what you're talking about, and this is exactly what I've done in the last five years, is do deep research and all this sort of stuff. People think that you have to go to university in order to have this education, and that used to be the case. It is no longer the case. We don't have to be actually in medical school to get access to medical texts anymore, which used to be the way. And so we now have the power in our hands to take, to some degree, control over what we're learning and where we're going with this.  It doesn't mean that it's easy. You will know, sifting through PubMed, and all these scholarly Google articles and things in clinical studies is pretty damn confusing sometimes and arduous. But once you get used to that form of learning, you start to be able to sift through relatively fast, and you can really educate yourself. I think having that growth mindset, I mean, you and I never came from an academic background. But thanks to you, I'm actually going to see Prof Schofield next week. Prof Schofield and looking at a PhD, because, I really need to add that to my load. But— Craig: You know, the thing is, I think in general, and I don't know where you're gonna go today, but I think in general, like what one of the things that keeps us young is learning and exposing ourselves, our mind and our emotions and for that matter, our body to new things, whether that's new experiences or new ideas, or new information, or new environments, or new people. This is what floats my boat and it keeps me hungry and it keeps me healthy physically, mentally, emotionally, intellectually, creatively, sociologically. It keeps me healthy. Not only does it keep me in a good place, I'm actually at 57, still getting better. You know, and people might wonder about that sometimes.  Of course, there's an inevitability to chronological aging. Clearly, most people at 80 are not going to be anything like they were at 40. Not that I'm 80. But there's— we know now that there's the unavoidable consistency of time as a construct, as an objective construct. But then there's the way that we behave around and relate to time. Biological aging is not chronological aging. In the middle of the inevitability of time ticking over is, which is an objective thing, there's the subject of human in the middle of it, who can do what he or she wants. So, in other words, a 57-year-old bloke doesn't need to look or feel or function or think like a 57-year-old bloke, right?  When we understand that, in many ways, especially as an experience, age is a self-created story for many people. I mean, you've met, I've met and our listeners have met 45-year-olds that seem 70 and 70-year-olds— and we're not talking about acting young, that's not what we're talking about. I'm not talking about that. I'm not talking about pretending you're not old or acting young. I'm actually talking about changing the way that your body and your mind and your brain and your emotional system works, literally. So that you are literally in terms of function, similar to somebody or a ‘typical' person who's 20 or 25 years younger than you. We didn't even know that this used to be possible, but not only is it possible, if you do certain things, it's very likely that that's the outcome you'll create. Lisa: Yeah, and if you think about our grandparents, and when I think about my Nana at 45 or 50, they were old. When I think about now I'm 52, you're 57, we're going forward, we're actually reaching the peak of our intellectual, well, hopefully not the peak, we're still going up. Physically, we got a few wrinkles and a few grey hairs coming. But even on that front, there is so much what's happening in the longevity space that my take on it is, if I can keep my shit together for the next 10 years, stuff's gonna come online that's gonna help me keep it on for another 20, 30, 40 years.  For me now it's trying to hold my body together as best I can so that when the technology does come, that we are able to meet— and we're accessing some of the stuff now, I mean, I'm taking some of the latest and greatest bloody supplements and biohacking stuff, and actively working towards that, and having this, I think it's a growth mindset. I had Dr Demartini on the show last week, who I love. I think he's an incredible man. His mindset, I mean, he's what nearly, I think he's nearly 70. It looks like he's 40. He's amazing. And his mind is so sharp and so fast it'll leave you and I in the dust. He's processing books every day, like, you know, more than a book a day and thinking his mind through and he's distilling it and he's remembering, and he's retaining it, and he's giving it to the world. This is sort of— you know, he's nothing exceptional. He had learning disabilities, for goodness sake, he had a speech impediment, he couldn't read until he was an adult. In other words, he made that happen. You and I, you know, we both did you know, where you went to university, at least when you're younger, I sort of mucked around on a bicycle for a few years. Travelling the world to see it. But this is the beauty of the time that we live in, and we have access to all this. So that growth mindset, I think keeps you younger, both physically and mentally. Craig: And this is why I reckon it's really important that we hang around with people who drag us up, not down. And that could be you know, this listening to your podcast, of course, like I feel like when I listen to a podcast with somebody like you that shares good ideas and good information and good energy and is a good person, like if I'm walking around, I've literally got my headphones here because I just walked back from the cafe, listening to Joe Rogan's latest podcast with this lady from Harvard talking about testosterone, you'd find it really interesting, wrote a book called T.  When I'm listening to good conversations with good people, I am, one, I'm fascinated and interested, but I'm stimulating myself and my mind in a good way. I'm dragging myself up by exposing myself to good ideas and good thinking, and good stories. Or it might even be just something that's funny, it might— I'm just exposing myself to a couple of dickheads talking about funny shit, right? And I'd spend an hour laughing, which is also therapeutic.  You know, and I think there's that, I think we forget that we're always feeding our mind and our brain something. It's just having more awareness of what am I actually plugging into that amazing thing? Not only just what am I putting in my body, which, of course, is paramount. But what am I putting in, you know, that thing that sits between my ears that literally drives my life? That's my HQ, that's my, my mind is the CEO of my life. So I need to make sure that as much as I can, that I'm managing my mind and my mental energy                                                                                  optimally. Lisa: Yeah. And I think, you know, a lot of people if they didn't do well in the school system, think that, 'Oh, well, I'm not academic therefore I can't learn or continue to learn.' I really encourage people, if you're listening to this, and you didn't succeed in the school system, that means absolutely nothing when you're an adult. The school system has got many flaws, and it didn't cater to everybody. So I just want people to understand that.  You know, just like with Dr Demartini, he taught himself 30 words a day, that's where he started: vocabulary. He taught himself to read and then taught— Albert Einstein was another one, you know, he struggled in school for crying out loud. So school isn't necessarily the marker of whether you're an intelligent human being or not. It's one system and one way of learning that is okay for the average and the masses. But definitely, it leaves a lot of people thinking that they're dumb when they're not dumb.  It's all about those people just taking one step at a time to move forward and becoming, you know, that growth mindset that I think is just absolutely crucial. You talked there about laughter and I wanted to go into that a little bit today too, because I heard you talking on Tiffany, our friend Tiffany's podcast, and you were talking about how important laughter is for the body, for our minds, for our— and if we laugh a lot, we're less likely to fall victim to the whole adult way of being, which is sometimes pretty cynical and miserable. When you think, what is it? Kids laugh something like 70 times a day and adults laugh I think, six times a day or some statistic. Do you want to elaborate on that a little bit? Craig: Well, I used to sit down with you know, I don't do much one-on-one coaching anymore, just because I do other stuff. I would sit with people and go, ‘Alright, tell me about your exercise plan and blah, blah, blah. Tell me about your career plan, blah, blah, blah. Tell me about your financial plan, blah, blah, blah.' Tell me about, you know, whatever. And they have systems and programs and plans for everything.  I would say to them, 'Do you like fun?' And they're like, they look at me like I was a weirdo. 'What do you mean?' I go, 'Well, what do you mean, what do I mean? Like, do you like having fun?' And they're like, very seriously, like, 'Well, of course, everyone likes having fun.' I go, 'Great. What's your fun plan?' And they go, 'What?' I go, 'What's your fun— like, is laughing and having fun important to you?' 'Yeah, yeah.' 'Okay, what's your fun plan?'  They literally, like this idea of just integrating things into my life, which are for no reason other than to laugh and to have fun. Not to be productive and efficient and to tick more boxes and create more income and elevate output and tick fucking boxes and hit KPIs and you know, just to be silly, just to laugh like a dickhead, just to hang out with your mates or your girlfriends, or whatever it is. Just to talk shit, just to, not everything needs to be fucking deep and meaningful and world-changing. Not everything. In fact, it can't, you know?  Our brain and our body and our emotional system and our nervous system and— it can't work like that we can't be elevated all the time. And so, literally when we are laughing, we're changing the biochemistry of our brain. You know, literally when we are having fun, we're impacting our immune system in a real way through that thing I've probably spoken to you about, psychoneuroimmunology, right? We're literally doing our biology good by laughing and there's got to be, for me, there's got to be, because, like you probably, I have a lot of deep and meaningful conversations with people about hard shit. Like, I'm pretty much a specialist at hard conversations. It's what I do. But, you know, and, and I work a lot, and I study a lot. Then there needs to be a valve. You can't be all of that all of the time because you're human, you're not a cyborg, you're not a robot. And this hustle, hustle, hustle, grind, work harder, sleep less, you can, you know, you can sleep when you're dead, it's all bullshit. Because, also, yeah, I want to learn and grow and evolve, and I want to develop new skills. But you know what, I want to also, in the moment, laugh at silly shit. I want to be happy and I want to hang out with people I love and I want to be mentally and emotionally and spiritually nourished.  Like, it's not just about acquiring knowledge and accumulating shit that you're probably not going to use. It's also about the human experience now. This almost sounds contradictory. But because of course, we want a future plan and we want goals and all of those, but we're never going to live in the present because when we get there, it's not the present. It's just another installment of now. So when next Wednesday comes, it's not the future, it's now again, because life is never-ending now, right?  It's like you only like, live— living is a present tense verb. You can't living in the future, and you can't live in the future. You cannot. Yes, I know, this gets a little bit, what's the word existential, but the truth is that, yeah, we need to— well, we don't, we can do whatever we want. But I believe we need to be stimulated so we're learning and growing, and we're doing good stuff for our brain and good stuff for our body. But also that we are giving ourselves a metaphoric hug, and going, 'It's all right to lie on your bed and watch Netflix, as long as it's not 20 hours a day, five days a week,' you know. It's okay to just laugh at silly stuff. It's okay, that there's no purpose to doing this thing other than just joy and enjoyment, you know.  I think that people like you and me who are, maybe we would put ourselves in the kind of driven category, right? You and I are no good at this. Like, at times, having fun and just going, ‘I'm going to do fuck all today.' Because the moment that we do sometimes we start to feel guilty and we start to be like, 'Fuck, I'm not being productive. I've got to be productive.' That, in itself, is a problem for high performance. Like, fuck your high performance, and fuck your productivity today. Be unproductive, be inefficient, and just fucking enjoy it, you know, not— because in a minute, we're going to be dead. We're going to go, 'But fuck, I was productive. But I had no fun, I never laughed, because I was too busy being important.' Fuck all that. Lisa: I think both of us have probably come a long way around finding that out. I mean, I used to love reading fiction novels, and then I went, ‘Oh, I can't be reading fiction novels. I've got so many science books that I have to read.' Here I am, dealing with insomnia at two o'clock in the morning reading texts on nitric oxide, you know. It is this argument that goes on, still in my head if there was an hour where you weren't learning something, you know, I can't. Because I know that if I go for a big drive or something, and I have to travel somewhere, or going for a long run or something, I've probably digested a book on that road trip or three, or 10 podcasts or something and I've actually oh, I get to the end and I'm like, ‘Well, I achieved something.' I've got my little dopamine hits all the way through.  Now I've sort of come to also understand that you need this time out and you need to just have fun. I'm married to this absolute lunatic of a guy called Haisely O'Leary, who I just love, because all day every day, he is just being an idiot. In the best sense of the word. I come out and I'm grumpy and you know, had a hard day and I'm tired, I'm stressed, and I come out and he's doing a little dance, doing some stupid meme or saying some ridiculous thing to me. I'm just like, you know, I crack up at it. That's the best person to have to be around because they keep being—and I'm like, ‘Come on, stop being stupid, you should be doing this and you shouldn't be doing that.' Then I hear myself, and I'm like, ‘No, he's got it right.' Craig: Well, I think he does, in some ways, you know. It's not about all, it's not about one or the other, it's about— and it's recognising that if I look after my energy, and my emotional system, and all of that, I'll get more done in 8 hours than 12 hours when I'm not looking after myself. So more is not better, necessarily. In fact, often, more is not better; sometimes, more is worse. So there's a difference between volume of work and output and quality of work. Also, you know, quality of experience.  I wrote a little thing yesterday, just talking on social media about the fact that I, like all of the things that I do, even study, although it's demanding, but I enjoy it. My job, you know, like, right now you and I do podcasts. I do seven podcasts a week, apart from the ones like this, where I'm being interviewed by someone else, or spoken to by somebody else. My life is somewhat chaotic, but I don't really, in terms of having a ‘job'. Well, one, I don't have a job. I haven't had a job since I was 26. Two, I don't really feel a sense of work, like most people do.  Like the other night, I did a gig. I don't know if you, if I posted a little thing about this on Insta, and I was doing a talk for Hewlett Packard in Spain. Now, how cool is the world? Right? So I'm talking here, right here in my house, you can see, obviously, your listeners can't. But this is not video, is it? Just us? I wish I knew that earlier. Sorry, everyone, I would have brushed my hair. But anyway, you should see my hair by the way. I look like bloody Doc from Back to the Future. Anyway, but I'm sitting in here, I'm sitting in the studio, and I'm about to talk to a few hundred people in Spain, right, which is where, that's where they're all— that's where I was dealing with the people who are organising me to speak.  Just before I'm about to go live at 5:30, the lady who had organised me was texting me. So it's on Zoom. There's already a guy on the screen speaking and then lots of little squares of other humans. I said to her, ‘How many?' and said, ‘You know, like a few 100.' I said, ‘Cool.' I go, ‘Everyone's in Spain,' and she goes, ‘No, no, we're in Spain, but the audience is around the world.' And I go, ‘Really? How many countries?' She goes, ‘38.' I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, I'm wearing a black t-shirt. I'm wearing my camo shorts. I've got bare feet. I'm talking to hundreds of humans from this big organisation in 38 countries, and I'm talking about the stuff that I am passionate about, right? I don't have to do any prep, because it's my default setting. I'm just talking. I had to talk for an hour and a half about high performance. Well, giddy up, that's like an hour and a half of breathing. You know?  I just had such fun, and I had this moment, Lisa, halfway through, I don't know, but about halfway through, where I'm like, I remember growing up in a paradigm where pretty much when I was a kid everyone went and got a job and you went, you became a cop or you sold clothes, or you're a bricky or sparky or you're some kind of tradie. A few of my super smart friends went to university. That was way over my head, I'm like, ‘Fuck university.' But there was literally about 50 jobs in the world. You know, it's like there was only 50 jobs, and everyone or nearly everyone fitted into one of those 50. There was a few other ones but for the most part, nearly everyone fitted into about 50 jobs. I'm sitting there going— I won't say what but I'm earning pretty good money. I'm sitting in bare feet in my house talking to humans around the world about this stuff that I want to tell everyone about anyway.  I do it for free on my podcast and your podcast and I do it anyway. I have this great time, it's a really good experience. Then I finish at 7 pm. Then I walk 15 feet into the kitchen and put the kettle on and check my messages.  Lisa: No commuting, no travelling, no flying. Craig: I'm like, ‘How is this a job?' I'm like, ‘How is this real?' ‘This is a scam. I'm scamming everybody.' Like, how great is 2021? I know there's a lot of shit going on and I'm not trying to be insensitive, and it's smashed my business too. All of my live events for 2020 got kicked in the dick in two weeks, right? I got financially annihilated, but you just go, ‘Oh well, improvise, adapt, overcome and figure shit out.' But, I think when you can have it and a lot of people and it's a very well-worn kind of idea. But when you're, what you love, and what you're curious about, and how you make a few bucks, when that can all collide, then life is a different thing. Then there's not work and life, there's just life.  You know, and so when we talk about this idea of work-life balance, you know, it's like the old days that talk about that a lot. And it's like, almost like there was some seesaw, some metaphoric seesaw with work on one side and life on the other. And when you get balance like that— because what happens, think about this, if we're just basing it on numbers, like all 40 hours of work versus however many hours of non-work or however many hours of recreation and recovery. But if you're doing even 20 hours of a job that you hate, that's going to fuck you up. That's gonna, that's gonna mess with you physically, mentally, and emotionally. That's going to be toxic; that's going to be damaging; that's going to be soul-destroying, versus something else like me studying 40 hours a week, working 40, 50 hours a week doing 90 in total, depending on the week and loving it, and loving it. And going, ‘I feel better than I've ever felt in my life.'  I still train every day, and I still, I live 600-800 metres from the beach, I still walk to the beach every day, you know. And I still hang out with my friends. You know, it's like, it doesn't have to be this cookie-cutter approach. The beauty I think of life, with your food, with your lifestyle, with your career, with your relationships with the way that you learn, like the way that you do business, everything now is so much more flexible, and optional than any time ever before that we can literally create our own blueprint for living. Lisa: Yeah. And then it's not always easy. And sometimes it takes time to get momentum and stuff. Being, both you and I have both said before we're unemployable. Like, I'm definitely not someone you want to employ, because I'm just always going to run my own ship. I've always been like that, and that's the entrepreneurial personality. So not everyone is set up for that personality-wise. So you know, we're a certain type of people that likes to run in a certain type of way. And we need lots of other people when doing the other paths.  There is this ability now to start to change the way you think about things. And this is really important for people who are unhappy in where they're at right now. To think, ‘Hang on a minute. I've been I don't know, policeman, teacher, whatever you've been, I don't want to be there anymore. Is there another me out there? Is there a different future that I can hit?' The answer is yes, if you're prepared to put in the work, and the time, and the effort, the looking at understanding and learning, the change, being adaptable, the risk-taking, all of those aspects of it. Yes, but there is ways now that you can do that where they weren't 30 years ago, when I came out of school I couldn't be, I was going to be an accountant. Can you imagine anything worse than that?  Craig: Hi, hi. Shout out to all our account listeners, we love you and we need you. Lisa: I wasn't that— Academically that's I was good at it. But geez, I hated it. And I did it because of parental pushing direction. Thank goodness, I sort of wake up to that. And you know, after three years. I had Mark Commander Mark Devine on the show. He's a Navy SEAL, man. You have to have him on the show. I'll hook you up. He's just a buck. He became an accountant before he became a Navy SEAL and now he's got the best of both worlds really, you know, but like you couldn't get more non-accountant than Mark Devine. We all go into the things when we leave school that we think we're meant to be doing. And they're not necessarily— and I think you know, the most interesting 50 year-olds still don't know what the hell they want to be when they grow up. Just interrupting the program briefly to let you know that we have a new Patron program for the podcast. Now, if you enjoy Pushing the Limits, if you get great value out of it, we would love you to come and join our Patron membership program. We've been doing this now for five and a half years and we need your help to keep it on air. It's been a public service free for everybody, and we want to keep it that way. But to do that we need like-minded souls who are on this mission with us to help us out. So if you're interested in becoming a patron for Pushing the Limits podcast, then check out everything on www.patron.lisatamati.com. That's P-A-T-R-O-N dot lisatamati.com. We have two Patron levels to choose from. You can do it for as little as $7 a month, New Zealand, or $15 a month if you really want to support us. So we are grateful if you do. There are so many membership benefits you're going to get if you join us. Everything from workbooks for all the podcasts, the strength guide for runners, the power to vote on future episodes, webinars that we're going to be holding, all of my documentaries and much, much more. So check out all the details: patron.lisatamati.com. And thanks very much for joining us. You know, I'm still in that camp. Craig: You raise a really interesting point too, and that is programming and conditioning. And, you know, because we all grow up being programmed, one way or consciously or not, we grow— if you grow up around people, you're being programmed. So that's not a bad thing. That's an unavoidable human thing. So, situation, circumstance, environment, school, family, friends, media, social media, all of that stuff shapes the way that we see the world and shapes the way that we see ourselves.  When you grow up in a paradigm that says, ‘Okay, Lisa, when you finish school, you have to go to university, or you have to get a job, or you have to join the family business, or you have to work on our farm,' or whatever it is, you grow up in that. You're taught and told and trained. And so you don't question that, you know. And for me, I grew up in the 70s, I finished in the 80s. I finished school in 1981. And I grew up in the country, and most people go to trade or most people worked in logging or on a farm or— and I would say about five in 100 of the kids that I did— by the way, doing year 12 was a pretty big deal in that time. ‘Geez, are you a brainiac?' Definitely wasn't a brainiac. But year 12 is a big thing now. Now, even if you have an undergrad degree that it's almost nothing really enough. It's like, you kind of got to go get honours, or masters or maybe even a PhD down the track. And that landscape has really changed. So it's just changing again to— you know, and I think to become aware— like this is for me, I love it; this is my shit; this is what I love— is starting to become aware of our lack of awareness. And starting to become aware of my own programming and go, ‘Oh, I actually think this. Why not? Because this is how I naturally think about, because this is how I've been trained to think about work. I've been trained to or programmed to think this way about money, or relationships, or marriage, or eating meat, or being a Catholic or being an atheist or voting liberal law,' or whatever it is, right.  Not that any of those things are good or bad, but it's not about how I eat or how I vote or how I worship. It's about how I think. And is this my thinking? Or is this just a reflection of their thinking, right? So when we open the door on metacognition now we start to become aware of our own stories, and where they come from. And this is where I think we really start to take control of our own life, and our own present, and our own future that doesn't exist, by the way, but it will, but it won't be the present.  Then, we start to write our own story with our own voice, not our parents' voice, not our friends', not our peers' voice, you know. And we're always going to be influenced by other people. Of course. Just like people are influenced by you and your podcast, and your stories, and your thinking, and your lessons for them. They're influenced. But I always say to people, ‘Don't believe me because you like me. Listen to me, if you like me and consider what I say. If what I say sounds reasonable for you, maybe a good idea to test drive, take that idea for a test drive, and see if that works for you, because it might not.' Right?  I think, I really encourage people to learn for themselves and to listen to their own internal wisdom that's always talking. So listen to smart people. I don't know if Lisa and I are in that category, Lisa is, listen to her. But at the same time, do your own, learning through exploration and trial and error, and personal kind of curiosity and drive.  For me, I opened my first gym at 26; first personal training centre in Australia, there weren't any. I'd never done a business course, I've never done an admin course, I knew nothing about marketing. I knew nothing about employees. I knew nothing. But I learned more in one year than I would say, most people would learn in five years at university studying business, because I was in the middle of it, and I was going to sink or swim. So in one year, I started a business and I acquired overwhelming knowledge and skill because I had to, because of the situation. But that was all learning through doing.  The way that you've learned, you know you said earlier that, like, a lot of people think that they're not academic; therefore, they're not smart. Some of the smartest people I've ever met, and I don't— and this not being patronising, but like, mind-blowingly brilliant, how they think, live outside of academia. One of the reasons some people are so brilliant outside of academia is because they're not forced into an echo chamber of thought. They're living outside the academic paradigm, where we're not trying to restrict how you think or write or speak. There are no rules out here. So there's no intellectual inhibition.  Lisa: Yeah, I love that. Craig: When you do a PhD, like me, and I can separate the two, thankfully. But there's a way of communicating and writing in PhD land, which is incredibly restrictive because of the scientific process, which is fine, I get that. But it's having an awareness of— this is what I'm often talking to my supervisors about is, yes, I'm studying this thing, which is deep, deep neuropsychology, and everything, the way that you do your research, get your data or interpret your data. The whole process of creating new science, which is what you're doing as a PhD, creating, bringing something new into the world. That's one thing. But you write your journal articles, which is my PhD process, you get them, hopefully, you get them published in academic resources and magazines. But then, I don't want that to be it. I'm going to write a book when I finish about all of my research totally in layman's terms so that people can use the knowledge, so that people can— because that's the value.  For me handing in some papers and going, ‘Oh, Craig Harper is an academically published author.' That's cool, but it's not— and I'm so respectful of people who have had hundreds of things published, but that doesn't blow my socks off. I'm not really— like that's a real, you really hang your hat on that in academia. Oh, how many things he or she had published, publications, which is cool. They're all smarter than me. But I'm not. I'm like, yeah, that that's cool. But I want to connect with the masses, not the few. Also, by the way, people who read academic papers, they raise it— they're reading it generally, just like I am right now, for a specific reason which relates to their own research. There ain't too many people like you. You're one of the rare ones who just thumb through fucking academic journals to make your life better. Lisa: Yeah. And it's just some real goals. So you've got the wisdom of having lived outside of academia and being a pracademic, as Paul Taylor says, and then actually seeing the pre— and this is a discussion that I had when I was talking to someone about doing a PhD and they say, ‘But then you're going to become a part of the establishment, and you're going to be forced into this box.' And I said, ‘No, not necessarily because it's— I can see where you're coming from. But you can take that, because you have that maturity and that life experience and you can fit yourself into the box that you have to fit into in order to get those things done. That research done, but you don't have to stay there.'  That's what you know, one of my things has been, I don't want to spend however many years doing a PhD, and then that's not out on the world. To me that that needs to be taken out of the academic journals, wherever you go to publish, and then put out into a book or something that where it's actually shared, like you say, with the masses, because otherwise, it just collects dust like your MA does, or your whatever, you know, that sits on your bookshelf, and how you got hey, your exam your piece of paper, but you didn't actually do anything with it.  Of course, lots of people do their thing, they're going like they're in research, and they're furthering research and so on. But I— my approach, I think yours is too, is to be able to communicate that information that you've learned, and then share it with everyone, so that they can actually benefit from it, and not just the people that are in academia. The other thing I see after interviewing hundreds of doctors and scientists and people is that they are, actually, the more specialised they are, the more inhibited they are by what they can and can't say.  While they need to be doing that because they need to protect what they are doing in their studies and what they're allowed to and what they're not allowed to do and say, it also is very inhibiting, and they don't get the chance to actually express what they would actually like to say. That's a bit of a shame, really, because you don't get to hear the real truth in the qualifying everything flat stick. Craig: I reckon you're exactly right. But they don't need to be that. And the reason that a lot of academics are like that is because they get their identity and sense of self-worth from being an academic. They're way more worried about three of their peers hearing something that might not be 100% accurate, and then being reprimanded or, rather than just going— look, I always say to my academic, super academic friends, when I talk with them, not everything that comes out of your mouth needs to be research-based. You can have an idea and an opinion. In fact, I want to hear your ideas and opinions. Lisa: You're very educated. Craig: You know, that's the— and as for the idea of you becoming an academic, No, you go, you do your thing you study, you learn the protocol, the operating system, and you do that you go through that process, but you're still you. Right, and there's— you and I both know, there are lots of academics who have overcome that self-created barrier like Andrew Huberman.  Lisa: Yeah, who we love. Craig: Who we love, who, for people listening, he's @hubermanlab on Insta, and there's quite a few academics now, like the one that I spoke on before, on Joe Rogan. She's a Harvard professor, she's a genius, and she's just having a— it's a three-hour conversation with Rogan, about really interesting stuff.  There's been a bit of a shift, and there is a bit of a shift because people are now, the smart academics, I think, are now starting to understand that used the right way, that podcasts and social media more broadly, are unbelievably awesome tools to share your thoughts and ideas and messages. By the way, we know you're a human. If you get something wrong, every now and then, or whatever, it doesn't matter. Lisa: Well, we'll all get, I mean, you watch on social media, Dr Rhonda Patrick, another one that I follow? Do you follow her? Fantastic lady, you know, and you watch some of their feeds on social media, and they get slammed every day by people who pretending to be bloody more academic than her. That just makes me laugh, really. I'm just like, wow, they have to put up with all of that. The bigger your name and the more credibility you have as a scientist, the more you have to lose in a way.  You know, even David Sinclair another you know, brilliant scientists who loves his work. And I love the fact that he shared us with, you know, all his, all his research in real-time, basically, you know, bringing it out in the book Lifespan, which you have to read, in getting that out there in the masses, rather than squirrelling it away for another 20 years before it becomes part of our culture, and part of our clinical usage. We ain't got time for that. We have to, we're getting old now. I want to know what I need to do to stop that now. Thanks to him, you know, I've got some directions to show them. Whether he's 100% there, and he's got all the answers? No. But he's sharing where we're at from the progress. Science by its very nature is never finished. We never have the final answer. Because if someone thinks they do, then they're wrong, because they're not, we are constantly iterating and changing, and that's the whole basis of science. Craig: Well just think about the food pyramid. That was science for a few decades. Lisa: Lots of people still believe that shit. That's the scary thing because now that's filtering still down into the popular culture, that that's what you should be doing, eating your workbooks and God knows what. This is the scary thing, that it takes so long to drip down to people who aren't on that cutting edge and staying up with the latest stuff, because they're basically regurgitating what there was 20 years ago and not what is now.  Now Craig, I know you've got to jump off in a second. But I wanted to just ask one more question, if I may, we're completely different. But I want to go there today because I'm going through this bloody shingles thing. Your mate Johny that you train, and who you've spoken about on the last podcast, who had a horrific accident and amazingly survived, and you've helped him, and he's helped you and you've helped him learn life lessons and recover, but he's in constant chronic pain.  I'm in constant chronic pain now, that's two and a half weeks. For frick's sake, man, I've got a new appreciation of the damage that that does to society. I just said to my husband today, I've been on certain drugs, you know, antivirals, and in pain medication. I can feel my neurotransmitters are out of whack. I can feel that I'm becoming depressed. I have a lot of tools in my toolbox to deal with this stuff, and I am freely sharing this because what I want you to understand is when you, when you're dealing with somebody who is going through chronic pain, who has been on medications and antibiotics, and God knows whatever else, understanding the stuff that they're going through, because I now have a bit of a new appreciation for what this much of an appreciation for someone like Johnny's been through. What's your take on how pain and all this affects the neurotransmitters in the drugs? Craig: Do you know what? Lisa: You got two minutes, mate. Craig: I'm actually gonna give you I'm gonna hook you up with a friend of mine. His name is Dr Cal Friedman. He is super smart, and he specialises in pain management, but he has a very different approach, right? He's a medical doctor, but look, in answer to, I talked to Johnny about the pain a bit, and we have, we use a scale, obviously 10 is 10. 0 is 0. There's never a 0. Every now and then it's a 1 or 2, but he's never pain-free. Because he has massive nerve damage. And sometimes, sometimes he just sits down in the gym, and he'll just, I'll get him to do a set of something, and he'll sit down and I just see this, his whole face just grimaces. He goes, ‘Just give me a sec.' His fist is balled up. He goes, sweat, sweat. I go, ‘What's going on, mate?' He goes, ‘It feels like my leg, my whole leg is on fire.'  Lisa: Yeah. I can so relate to that right now.  Craig: Literally aren't, like, burning, like excruciating. I don't think there's any, I mean, obviously, if there was we'd all be doing it. There is no quick fix. There is no simple answer. But what he has done quite successfully is changed his relationship with pain. There is definitely, 100% definitely, a cognitive element to, of course, the brain is, because the brain is part of the central nervous system. Of course, the brain is involved. But there's another element to it beyond that, right.  I'm going to tell you a quick story that might fuck up a little bit of Dr Cal, if you get him on. He has done a couple of presentations for me at my camps. He's been on my show a little bit. But he told this story about this guy at a construction site that was working and he had a workplace accident. And he, a builder shot a three-inch nails through his boots, through his foot. Right? So the nail went through his foot, through the top of the leather, and out the sole, and he was in agony, right? He fell down, whatever and he's just rolling around in agony and his mates, they didn't want to take anything off because it was through the boot, through his foot.  They waited for the ambos to get there, and they gave him the green whistle. So you know that whatever that is, the morphine didn't do anything, he was still in agony. He was in agony. Anyway, they get him into the back of the ambulance and they cut the boot off. And the nail has gone between his big toe and second toe and didn't even touch his foot.  Lisa: Oh, wow. In other words, psychologically—  Craig: There was no injury. But the guy was literally in excruciating pain, he was wailing. And they gave him treatment, it didn't help. He was still in pain. So what that tells us— Lisa: There is an element of—  Craig: What that tells us is our body can, our mind can create real, not perceived, but real pain in your body. And again, and this is where I think we're going in the future where we start to understand, if you can create extreme pain in your body where there is no biological reason, there is no actual injury, there's no physical injury, but you believe there's an injury, now you're in agony.  I think about, and there's a really good book called Mind Over Medicine by a lady called Lissa Rankin, which we might have spoken about. L-I-S-S-A, Lissa Rankin, Mind Over Medicine. What I love about her is, she's a medical doctor, and she gives case after case after case of healing happening with the mind, where people think placebos and no-cebos, people getting sick, where they think they're getting something that will make them sick, but it's nothing, they actually make themselves sick. And conversely, people getting well, when they're not actually being given a drug. They're being given nothing, but they think it's something. Even this, and this is fascinating, this operation, pseudo-operation I did with people where—  Lisa: Yeah, I read that one. I read that study. Craig: Amazing. Craig: Oh, yeah, it's look, pain is something that even the people who are experts in it, they don't fully understand. Lisa: Well, I just like, if I can interrupt you there real briefly, because I've been studying what the hell nerve pain, and I'm like, my head, my sores are starting to heal up right. So in my head, I'm like ‘Whoa, I should be having this pain, I'm getting more pain from the burning sensation in my legs and my nerves because it's nerve pain.' So I read somewhere that cryotherapy was good. So in the middle of the night, when I'm in really bad pain, instead of lying there and just losing my shit, and have I now have been getting up every night and having two or three cold ice-cold showers a night, which probably not great for my cortisol bloody profile, but it's, I'm just targeting that leg. That interrupts the pain sensation for a few minutes.  What I'm trying to do as I go, I'm trying to go like, can I—am I getting pain because my brain is now used to having pain? Is it sending those messages, even though there's no need, the sores are healing?  Craig: That is possible. Lisa: Am I breaking? And I can break the pain for about 10 minutes, and then it will come back in again. But I'm continuing on with it, that idea that I can interrupt that pain flow. Then of course, during the breathe in, the meditation, the stuff and sometimes you just lose your shit and you lose it, and then you just start crying, ‘Mummy, bring me some chicken soup' type moments. But it's really interesting. I mean, I just like to look at all these shit that we go from and then say, ‘Well, how can I dissect this and make this a learning curve?' Because obviously, there's something wrong, but I just, I feel for people that are going through years of this. Craig: It's, yeah, I'm the same I feel. Sometimes I work with people, where I work with and as do you, I work with a lot of people who have real problems. I don't have any problems. I mean, they have real problems. And I'm, despite my appearance, I'm quite, I'm very compassionate. It's hard for me because I, it upsets me to see people in pain. I feel simultaneously sad and guilty. How do I deserve this? But it just is what it is. But people like John and a lot of the people that I've worked with and you've worked with, you know, people like that inspire me.  I mean, they're— I don't find typical heroes inspirational. They don't really inspire me like the people we normally hold up as, I mean, well done. I think they're great, but they don't inspire me. People who inspire me or people who really, how the fuck are you even here? How do you turn up? He turns up. He's actually in hospital right now because he's got a problem that's being fixed. But, and he's in and out of hospital all of the time. And then he turns up, he hugs me and he goes, ‘How are you?' I go, ‘I'm good.' He goes, ‘Now look at me.' So I look at him. And he goes, ‘How are you really?' And I go, ‘I'm good.' This is the guy who—  Lisa: Who's dealing with so much. I've got a friend, Ian Walker8, who I've had on the show, too, so he got hit by a truck when he was out cycling, I think it was years and years ago. He ended up a paraplegic. And then he recovered, he didn't recover, he's still in a wheelchair, but he was out racing his wheelchair, he did wheelchair racing, and he's part of our club and stuff. And then he got hit by another truck, now he's a quadriplegic.  This guy, just, he is relentless in his attitude, like he is, and I've seen him dragging himself like with his hands because he's got access now to his hands again. After working for the last couple of years, and he kind of, on a walker frame thing, dragging himself two steps and taking a little video of him, dragging his feet, not the feet out, working, they're just being dragged. But the relentless attitude of the guy, I'm just like, ‘You're a fricking hero. You're amazing. Why aren't you on everybody magazine cover? Why aren't you like, super famous?' Those people that really flip my boat. Craig: Yeah. And I

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ON-AIR! This is #PRR467 the MARF take-over! This weeks episode is stacked with brand new music incl. the brand new Nicky Romero & MARF collaboration called 'Okay'. More music by the likes of KRYDER, Vintage Culture, VERWEST and many more! Tracklist: 1. Mahalo & Josh Charm feat. Guillaume Gordon - Missing You 2. Charles B & JDMAJ feat. Genesis Elijah - London Flow 3. Tungevaag & Sick Individuals & MARF - Miss You (Tungevaag Remix) 4. Tim van Werd & Crime Zcene & Dan Soleil vs. Martin Garrix & Matisse & Sadko ft. Alex Aris - On Your Side vs. Mistaken (SunJay & Josue Rodríguez MashUp) 5. Nicky Romero & MARF ft. Wulf - Okay 6. Kryder & B Jones - Girlfriend 7. Vintage Culture, Fancy Inc & Roland Clark - Free 8. Green Velvet - Flash (Nicky Romero Remix) 9. VERWEST - Elements Of A New Life 10. Julian Gray & 28mm & Forts - Air 11. VIVID - Olympia 12. Afrojack - All Night (feat. Ally Brooke) [Dubvision Remix] 13. Bruno Martini - Summer Thing (Kryder Remix) 14. KOSH & BAKER feat Jetason - Closer 15. Din & Vic - Slumped 16. Matt Nash - Now Or Never

When you really dig into the inner work process, the first place to begin is to stop worshipping and praying at the altar of perpetual growth and ascension. We are obsessed. We are addicted. We are fixated on and relient on this need to be special and this need to grow and this denies us the experience of a kind of falling apart. No man wants to fall apart and come into contact with the realities of what his grief might have to teach him. The fact is that when we really get present to it, what we're actually afraid of is that we don't know what that's going to look like. We are terrified of what will happen on the other side of not worshipping the 'God of Growth' and beginning to allow the wisdom of this grief to enter. - Connor Beaton   Get 15% off your CURED Nutrition order with the code WELLNESSFORCE at wellnessforce.com/CURED   ---> Get The Morning 21 System: A simple and powerful 21 minute system designed to give you more energy to let go of old weight and live life well.   JOIN THE FACEBOOK GROUP | *REVIEW THE PODCAST*   Wellness Force Radio Episode 406 TEDx Speaker and the Founder of ManTalks, Connor Beaton, shares his own journey of coming back from rock bottom, the healing power of shadow work, how men can begin the process of fathering their inner child, and why the war of the sexes is officially over.   Are you ready to begin the journey towards deep radical healing?   Discover why pain has its own intelligence and what it can teach us when we are present to its guiding wisdom.   CURED Nutrition Save 15% off your CURED Nutrition order with the code WELLNESSFORCE at wellnessforce.com/cured It's taken me over a year to find the right hemp and CBD company to introduce to the Wellness Force Community and I could not be more thrilled that it's CURED Nutrition! CURED Nutrition is a movement inspired by nature and grounded in a shared desire to leave a lasting impression on you, our community, and this world. Together, they're a collective of heart-centered human beings who are inviting you – the conscious creatives, dreamers, and healers – to join their family. Learn how CURED hemp and CBD products can enhance your daily wellness routine. Try Cured's Full Spectrum Raw Hemp Oil Today They're Colorado-based organically grown hemp products that have been engineered to transform your approach toward an elevated life. Tap into your inherent potential – your greatest mind-body alignment – and nourish it with the supplements you were designed to thrive on. A greater existence is waiting. [ Listen To Episode 406 As Connor Beaton Uncovers:   [1:30] Coming Back From Rock Bottom Connor Beaton ManTalks ManTalks Podcast Get a discount for Man Talks Shadow Work Program with the code 'WELLNESSFORCE' What ManTalks is and their mission to support men especially with their mental health. 386 Mark Groves ManTalks Podcast: Josh Trent – Breaking Through the Barriers of Our Own Past, Pain and Failures Unpacking the hardships Connor has faced and how he has grown since hitting his rock bottom moment. How the mask and the illusion he had built around himself started to crumble and impact those around him. His past destructive behavior patterns and how he worked to overcome and be anew. So-called "rules" that men learn including "You don't talk about what it's like to be a man" especially if it doesn't fit into the typical male role. Francis Weller Breaking down how our pain as its own intelligence and why men are taught not to observe that and it is crippling them. The fact that Connor couldn't cope with the pain that he felt inside that led to fights, dangerous behavior, and infidelity because that's what he thought a man should do to stuff it down. Why we shouldn't suppress our feelings and pain but explore and express them to help us heal.   [15:00] Pain Has Its Own Wisdom How embracing the emotional pain during his 10-Day Vision Quest allowed Josh to heal past wounds he had carried for decades. The fact that our body is always trying to communicate with us at all times. Connor's experience really tuning into his pain for the first time and see what it was doing to those that he loved the most. What steps men can take to begin unpacking and exploring their emotions and pain. Why we are obsessed and relient on this need to be special and this need to grow but it denies us the experience of falling apart and healing. The fear Connor had that his life would dismantle should he allow himself to feel his pain and listen to his grief. Carl Jung Questions to begin asking yourself including, 'What have you been denying about in your life?' What it means to go "into the cave" and experience the dark night of the soul that will ultimately lead you on your Hero's Journey.   [30:30] Shadow Work & Self Healing Breaking down the keys to shadow work and begin the self healing process. How to pay attention to how you react and why that response is so important to understanding your shadow and where you go when you are unconscious. The benefits of keeping a journal of what you react to, how you reacted, and what narrative runs through your mind when the shadow self comes out. Unpacking the differences between responding from the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous systems and applying that to your fight, fight, or freeze response. Exploring capital "T" and lower case "t" trauma for men especially if they have experienced sexual trauma, physical abuse, or a family member with a mental health illness. Why men who have been abused either have a "fawn" response where they freeze or they people please because it is safer for them. Unpacking the co-dependent saying "Happy wife, happy life" and how it keeps people back from doing the real inner work. Why we, and especially men, over rely on our intellectual understanding of things but struggle with intuition and emotions in relationships. Conner's decision to not call it therapy but training because men are missing skill sets that they actually need in order to have fully functional relationships, careers, health, romantic relationships, and self fulfillment. What past narratives Connor had to unlearn so that he could learn new trainings such as the arts of self discipline.   [44:30] How To Begin The Shadow Work Exploring the law of reciprocity and how it relates to things happening for us instead of to us. Why he believes that in some way karma is what we attract because we believe we deserve it. How our pain unconsciously attracts what we don't want in life and that's why we should be paying attention to what it's telling us. Why the shadow work is not a golden bullet for automic healing but it is an important part of the process. The importance of easing into doing the shadow work by first realizing what areas of your life you are avoiding. A shadow work game Connor would play with himself by catching himself whenever he lied to others and then autocorrect that behavior real time. What he believes shadow work is in 2021 and why so many people are abusing the word and practice. How Carl Jung came up with the concept of the shadow self and shadow work. Connor's own experience with shadow work and working with parts of himself that he was hiding from others. How Connor helps people with addiction and the 12- step process. Why he believes that addiction is often an attachment dysfunction. How spirituality comes into place with the process of healing from addiction.   [57:30] The War Of The Sexes Is Over The different programs that are available at ManTalks to help you with the healing process. What the ManTalks group, The Alliance, is about and why it's a safe space for men to have challenge based relationships to help them grow. Why we need to stop focusing on bringing a matriarchy or a patriarchy into power and instead create a humanity arch together to lead from a place of wholeness and not wounding. Stephen Jenkinson Breaking down the actual etymology of the word, "patriarchy," why it doesn't mean putting men on a pedestal, and how it applies to our world in 2021. Why a lot of the work that we do as men is to learn how to father ourselves. How ManTalks and The Alliance help men tend to and father themselves but also integrate and initiate themselves through the obstacles they're facing into more sovereign, self led men who can bring their gifts into the world. Why there is no more "war of the sexes" and we can work together as one in society while honoring our core differences and similarities. The spiritual courage to surrender to change and allow ourselves to evolve and mature. Duey Freeman Paleovalley - Save 15% on your ACV Complex with the code 'JOSH' Drink LMNT – Zero Sugar Hydration: Get your free LMNT Sample Pack, you only cover the cost of shipping Belcampo Meat Co Botanic Tonics - Save 20% with the code 'WELLNESS20' breathwork.io M21 Wellness Guide Wellness Force Community   Power Quotes From The Show What Inner Work Really Looks Like   "Let go of your need to find any kind of golden gun or silver bullet. When men enter this work, they think, 'Okay, I'm going to work on my shadow; I'm going to do shadow work,' or 'I'm going to go to therapy, I'm going to get a therapist.' They do so almost always from the place of: I just want that one ultimate equation that's going to liberate me so I can get away from this. They want to make it as pragmatic as possible but you know, you're entering into territory that may not work like that and you have have to consider that. Consider that what got you into the dysfunction that you have been in may not be the path that is going to get you out of it. That perhaps, you're going to have to learn a very different, equally valuable lesson when you begin the real inner work." - Connor Beaton   Facing Your Shadow   "Carl Jung's work focused on facing the shadow; facing the parts of you that you have been rejecting and hiding and avoiding. Start there to begin your inner work journey and ask, 'What have I been rejecting about myself? What have I been avoiding? What have I been denying about myself and lying about in my life?' Start there by working on those aspects because when we do, we begin to reveal that parts of ourselves that we have hidden from the people that we love and then we wonder why we don't feel like they really know us.... ...So, begin with the things that you have been neglecting about who you are or begin with the parts that you have been rejecting of what your life actually looks like. For some men this is very challenging because it means that they have to come into contact with the truth that maybe they're not as happy and things aren't as perfect as they had been selling to the world for years." - Connor Beaton   How To Father Your Inner Child     "The work that we do in many ways is about learning how to father ourselves as men. That we stop offloading the responsibility of our wellness, of our strength, of our confidence, of our wellbeing onto other people because the truth is, if we're really honest, there's a lot of men out there who have no idea how to tend to the wounded child that they've been carrying around for years. Where has he gone? If you've been abused as a child, where did that child go? Nowhere; he's in you - he is you and if you don't know how to take care of him, he's going to cause havoc in your life. If you don't know how to parent him and father him, he's going to cause havoc if you become a father." - Connor Beaton   Links From Today's Show  ManTalks Podcast Get a discount for Man Talks Shadow Work Program with the code 'WELLNESSFORCE' 386 Mark Groves ManTalks Podcast: Josh Trent – Breaking Through the Barriers of Our Own Past, Pain and Failures Francis Weller Carl Jung Stephen Jenkinson Duey Freeman Paleovalley - Save 15% on your ACV Complex with the code 'JOSH' Drink LMNT – Zero Sugar Hydration: Get your free LMNT Sample Pack, you only cover the cost of shipping Belcampo Meat Co Botanic Tonics - Save 20% with the code 'WELLNESS20' Leave Wellness Force a review on iTunes breathwork.io M21 Wellness Guide Wellness Force Community Connor Beaton Facebook Instagram Twitter ManTalks Facebook YouTube Instagram   About Connor Beaton Connor Beaton,the founder of ManTalks. He was raised to believe that being a man meant you had to follow certain rules. The most notable one is like the first rule of Fight Club: don't talk about it. For most of his life, he believed all men had the same rule. Shut up and deal with it. Man up. Over the next few years, he learned to take his trauma, shame, and denial—all the shadowy parts of himself—and integrate them. He spent thousands of hours learning and training. He consulted psychologists, historians, neurologists, and authors. Connor trained for years under mentors and leaders in Jungian psychology, somatic therapy, and holotropic breathwork. He even apprenticed under a disciple of Carl Jung himself. In 2014, Connor founded ManTalks as a grassroots movement to further the cause: giving men the tools and training to create a truly self-led life.   Build Immunity. Breathe Deeply. A simple, powerful 21 minute morning system designed to give you more energy to let go of old weight and live life well. Get Your Calm Mind + Immunity Building Guide  *6 science based morning practices guaranteed to give you more energy and less weight in 21 Minutes. *7 day guided B.R.E.A.T.H.E breathwork included.   More Top Episodes 226 Paul Chek: The Revolution Is Coming (3 Part Series) 131 Drew Manning: Emotional Fitness 129 Gretchen Rubin: The Four Tendencies  183 Dr. Kyra Bobinet: Brain Science 196 Aubrey Marcus: Own The Day 103 Robb Wolf: Wired To Eat Best of The Best: The Top 10 Guests From over 200 Shows Get More Wellness In Your Life Join the #WellnessWarrior Community on Facebook Tweet us on Twitter: Send us a tweet Comment on the Facebook page Watch full interviews on YouTube

Listen to this interview of Terry McGlynn, author of The Chicago Guide to College Science Teaching (U Chicago Press, 2020). McGlynn is also a professor of biology at California State University Dominguez Hills and research associate in the Department of Entomology in the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County. We talk about learning, actually. Terry McGlynn : “If you're giving students a writing assignment, like an experimental protocol, and they're supposed to write about what they did in the lab or in the field, and it's a cookbook project, you know, where the students don't design the methods themselves and they're just doing what they were told to do and they're writing that down–––well, then the students are just jumping through a hoop and there's no ownership. That just gets you following through the prescribed steps, and in each of those steps, you just need to know, 'Oh, I just need to write a sentence where I've said This is where I did this,' and you write that sentence. And so, I think you can get through the whole assignment without thinking about the grand reason why you're doing it, right? Because the grand reason why you're doing it is because you need to turn it in and get your grade. And so all the little decisions you're making when you're doing the writing assignment–––all those decisions are all based on a micro level of, 'Okay, this next sentence, and that next sentence,' rather than if you had more control over what you're writing or if you had a bigger set of questions–––basically, if you knew why you're doing this assignment, you know like, what is the purpose of the assignment other than to turn it in and to get a grade–––because then that would be the purpose which is behind all those other small decisions, the purpose that guides you toward some destination." McGlynn's blog is here.  Daniel Shea heads Scholarly Communication, the podcast about how knowledge gets known. Daniel is Director of the Writing Program at Heidelberg University, Germany. Daniel's YouTube Channel is called Write Your Research. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/education

Listen to this interview of Terry McGlynn, author of The Chicago Guide to College Science Teaching (U Chicago Press, 2020). McGlynn is also a professor of biology at California State University Dominguez Hills and research associate in the Department of Entomology in the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County. We talk about learning, actually. Terry McGlynn : “If you're giving students a writing assignment, like an experimental protocol, and they're supposed to write about what they did in the lab or in the field, and it's a cookbook project, you know, where the students don't design the methods themselves and they're just doing what they were told to do and they're writing that down–––well, then the students are just jumping through a hoop and there's no ownership. That just gets you following through the prescribed steps, and in each of those steps, you just need to know, 'Oh, I just need to write a sentence where I've said This is where I did this,' and you write that sentence. And so, I think you can get through the whole assignment without thinking about the grand reason why you're doing it, right? Because the grand reason why you're doing it is because you need to turn it in and get your grade. And so all the little decisions you're making when you're doing the writing assignment–––all those decisions are all based on a micro level of, 'Okay, this next sentence, and that next sentence,' rather than if you had more control over what you're writing or if you had a bigger set of questions–––basically, if you knew why you're doing this assignment, you know like, what is the purpose of the assignment other than to turn it in and to get a grade–––because then that would be the purpose which is behind all those other small decisions, the purpose that guides you toward some destination." McGlynn's blog is here.  Daniel Shea heads Scholarly Communication, the podcast about how knowledge gets known. Daniel is Director of the Writing Program at Heidelberg University, Germany. Daniel's YouTube Channel is called Write Your Research. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/science-technology-and-society

Listen to this interview of Terry McGlynn, author of The Chicago Guide to College Science Teaching (U Chicago Press, 2020). McGlynn is also a professor of biology at California State University Dominguez Hills and research associate in the Department of Entomology in the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County. We talk about learning, actually. Terry McGlynn : “If you're giving students a writing assignment, like an experimental protocol, and they're supposed to write about what they did in the lab or in the field, and it's a cookbook project, you know, where the students don't design the methods themselves and they're just doing what they were told to do and they're writing that down–––well, then the students are just jumping through a hoop and there's no ownership. That just gets you following through the prescribed steps, and in each of those steps, you just need to know, 'Oh, I just need to write a sentence where I've said This is where I did this,' and you write that sentence. And so, I think you can get through the whole assignment without thinking about the grand reason why you're doing it, right? Because the grand reason why you're doing it is because you need to turn it in and get your grade. And so all the little decisions you're making when you're doing the writing assignment–––all those decisions are all based on a micro level of, 'Okay, this next sentence, and that next sentence,' rather than if you had more control over what you're writing or if you had a bigger set of questions–––basically, if you knew why you're doing this assignment, you know like, what is the purpose of the assignment other than to turn it in and to get a grade–––because then that would be the purpose which is behind all those other small decisions, the purpose that guides you toward some destination." McGlynn's blog is here.  Daniel Shea heads Scholarly Communication, the podcast about how knowledge gets known. Daniel is Director of the Writing Program at Heidelberg University, Germany. Daniel's YouTube Channel is called Write Your Research. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/science

Listen to this interview of Terry McGlynn, author of The Chicago Guide to College Science Teaching (U Chicago Press, 2020). McGlynn is also a professor of biology at California State University Dominguez Hills and research associate in the Department of Entomology in the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County. We talk about learning, actually. Terry McGlynn : “If you're giving students a writing assignment, like an experimental protocol, and they're supposed to write about what they did in the lab or in the field, and it's a cookbook project, you know, where the students don't design the methods themselves and they're just doing what they were told to do and they're writing that down–––well, then the students are just jumping through a hoop and there's no ownership. That just gets you following through the prescribed steps, and in each of those steps, you just need to know, 'Oh, I just need to write a sentence where I've said This is where I did this,' and you write that sentence. And so, I think you can get through the whole assignment without thinking about the grand reason why you're doing it, right? Because the grand reason why you're doing it is because you need to turn it in and get your grade. And so all the little decisions you're making when you're doing the writing assignment–––all those decisions are all based on a micro level of, 'Okay, this next sentence, and that next sentence,' rather than if you had more control over what you're writing or if you had a bigger set of questions–––basically, if you knew why you're doing this assignment, you know like, what is the purpose of the assignment other than to turn it in and to get a grade–––because then that would be the purpose which is behind all those other small decisions, the purpose that guides you toward some destination." McGlynn's blog is here.  Daniel Shea heads Scholarly Communication, the podcast about how knowledge gets known. Daniel is Director of the Writing Program at Heidelberg University, Germany. Daniel's YouTube Channel is called Write Your Research. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Enhancing Customer Experience With Floris Blok  You might be wondering why customers sometimes love you and sometimes don't. Is it something you're doing or something you're not? It is like when you go to a trash-and-treasure market, sometimes you find trash and sometimes you find treasure but that doesn't mean anything is wrong with those customers. Today, we've got Floris Blok from Blok Business Consulting and he's going to be talking to us about the customer journey, the customer experience, and what it means. Get more tips on how to enhance customer experience at dorksdelivered.com.au What is meant by customer experience? What is meant by a customer experience? How can you say it's a good customer experience?  Floris: To actually figure out what the customer experience is, you need to understand who the customer is. So if you're trying to sell something to someone, you want to know who they are before you try and sell them anything. That would be your first point of call or a call to action as an organisation, as a marketing department or whoever you may be. Understanding the ideal customer profile (ICP) is actually the first thing that you need to do. Floris: Once you have a deep understanding and insight about that, like a group of people or certain demographics or psychographic segmentation, then you can start understanding where they get their information, where they actually go out and buy stuff, what it is they are interested in, what makes them tick. Once you figure that out, then you can actually expand and actually build that customer journey or at the very least identify what the customer journey is through all kinds of different ways of research and analytics. And then, you can start optimising each of those touchpoints that you have with that particular segment's ICP. Floris: There are many different ways of doing it. For example, if you're an e-commerce platform, one way would be certain KPIs, like how many people dropped out from your website once they've done a search or how many people leave a basket with stuff in it and don't actually convert to an actual sale. There are different KPIs that you can measure. How do you identify your ideal customer? If you've just started out in business or maybe you've decided to start a business, but have no idea about marketing or who my customer is going to be. All you know is you make really good pies or you're a little bit faster laying a concrete driveway or you've got a cool way that you're doing your accounting, how would you know who is going to pick up on this? How do you work out who your customer is before you've had one? Floris: If you are already working for an employer and you want to go on your own, then you already have that experience. You would have had exposure to the type of people that are purchasing the products or hiring services that your organisation is actually putting out into the market. You would have at least some kind of idea. Floris: If you are completely new. Let's say hypothetically, you've just rolled out of college or university. You've got this great idea for something, like software. First of all, what you need to do is actually develop it into a product. There are all kinds of different things that we can talk about here from the product management point of view and a product development point of view, like setting up your MVP or minimal viable product, and then how do you go about getting financing, funding, etc. so you can develop it further and all of these things. Floris: Let's go back to your example of pies. Let's say you've just won MasterChef and now you've got $250,000 in your pocket, but your entire life, what you've done is you've basically put these pies or baked these pies for your family. Now you're sitting there with $250,000 in your pocket and they're burning a hole in it because you want to open a shop. You need to understand what it is about your pies that people like because three MasterChef judges liking it is fantastic. They've talked about it in front of the entire Australian population that watches MasterChef and all the international ones abroad and all of these things. Kudos! Floris: But you need to understand what the people who are going to come into the shop are going to come in for. They need a pie, but is it a breakfast pie? Is it an afternoon lunch party? Is it a snack? These are the things you need to understand. Floris: Once you understand what people like about your pies and what time they like to eat them, you can manage your production schedule, the marketing, your shop front or where you can actually locate your shop. We know that with COVID, there's a lot of real estate in the CBD that's emptying up because workers are not there. Are you going to move into CBD or are you going to be selling pies out of a truck? Food trucks are doing great because you can move locations and you can be in different places at different times. Floris: Understanding what your customers want and how they want to consume it, whether it's a product or service, is a very good start to understanding how you can then deliver that service to them for them to give you their hard-earned cash. How do you measure customer experience? On the MasterChef example, I've got this $250,000, let's go through the process. You might have a mobile location or something that's static. If you've got these people coming to the front of the van or the shopfront, and they're ordering pies, you can obviously say the pies are selling really well and then have things like best sellers and know how to promote and critique and change different product lines and measure the analytics, the same way you could do that with an e-commerce website. If you've then got those numbers in play, how do you know that you're attracting enough of the right audience or you're measuring things? Are you looking at people that are coming through the door going, 'Okay, they look like 45 to 60-year old business people, so I should be marketing more towards that segment.' How do you put pen to paper to actually work out the demographics and psychographics of your customers? Floris: I can give you the theory from now up until the moon shines tonight, but I think the answer was in your question, which is analytics. Once you have the data, then you can be a data-driven organisation and you can then adjust based on the data. For example, if the data says that you've got a meat pie that sells more than a cheese pie, you're more likely going to start buying in more stuff for the meat pie and making more meat pies and having them on hand, especially if you've got another data point that says that you've run out of them halfway through the day. A lot of this can happen quite instinctively with a lot of people. Now we're taking an example and we're applying it to a lot more complex processes, but principles are the same. If you have a pie that sells really well and it goes out of stock midday and you still got people coming in asking for it, then you've got a great set of customers that actually know what they want and they like your product but if you run out of it, that means that you haven't forecasted enough of that product. Now you're delivering a very bad customer experience. All of a sudden, you end up having to offer an alternative product, maybe even at a discount just to keep the customers happy and coming back through the door the very next day. Floris: It is about the data. If you have the data and you can see where the data is actually, providing you insights. Information, knowledge and insights are three different things. Information leads to knowledge, and knowledge leads to insight, which is then applied into an action in a business sense. You can translate that into future actions in order to improve. Floris: Data analytics can be very simple. It could be just you sitting there at the end of the day looking at your cash register or your receipts and looking at the number of pies sold and left. That's enough to give you an idea. It doesn't have to be as complex as an ERP system hooked up to a CRM that's tracking your website and all of these things.  Is scarcity a good customer experience strategy? You brought up something that's quite interesting. You said if the pie ran out halfway through the day, it affects the customer's experience. Apple intentionally creates short runs of their products so that there is scarcity in the market. How does creating scarcity affect the customer experience? Is that something that can be good or bad? You have these people then talking more about it. You have this line at the door versus having an empty store. Because you're really good at serving people quickly, they're coming in and out of the store very quickly, but it ends up looking like your store is empty because you're too efficient. Is that a problem that you should be worried about? Floris: It's a complex question and no simple answer can be given here. Let's give it a try and unpack it. If we use Apple as an example, Apple has an enormous level of brand loyalty, right? The level of scarcity only feeds into that brand loyalty because of the marketing around it and the hype that Apple creates around its brand. In this regard, it doesn't really matter whether you are in shortage of stock. You've got such brand loyal customers that even if they have to wait six months to get a phone, they will wait six months to have a phone. They'll walk around with a cracked screen, iPhone 11 or whatever it is, and then try and upgrade to an iPhone 12 because the Apple TV shows how you can take a great picture of your dog. That's brand loyalty for you. Apple does that almost to perfection.  Floris: On the other hand, if you've got a product like a meat pie or a pie store and you run out of pies, it's not going to look very good for you because it looks like you don't know how to run your business and this is a consumer product that's consumed in very high volume. It's a low-value-high-volume sales that if you don't get in our instant gratification culture right now, we're going to go somewhere else and get it. If your competitor has a product that is of equal quality, equal taste, in this case, potentially cheaper, they're more likely going to become your competitor's loyal customer. You would have lost a customer, which is why in the service industry or in the hospitality industry, it becomes very much relational based on relationships. If you can provide a good customer experience by making people feel welcome, making them feel that they are in a store where they are heard, whether they can get what they want and all of these things to actually make them feel good and activate these dopamine levels, they will then keep coming back. Customer Experience Differs  We've got McDonald's, Wendy's, Hungry Jack's, or Burger King if you're not in Australia, and Grill'd, which is a gourmet burger place in Australia. All of them are doing reasonably well for different reasons. McDonald's and Hungry Jack's are very similar, but we've been led to believe the burgers are better at Hungry Jack's through repetitious marketing. Grill'd is a bit more gourmet. But still, the customer experience could be very different for the three different places. In my eyes, I'd say if I were to go to McDonald's, which I don't go to very often, I'd be going there because I need something quickly, not because I need a high-quality item. So the customer experience for me in going to McDonald's is because I want something now—I'm on a road trip going somewhere or in between meetings—and I know that they're consistently quick and that would be why I'd go there. That's also exactly why I wouldn't go to Red rooster because they're consistently slow. On that same vein, I guess people don't go to Grill'd because they're quick; people go there because the quality is better. But the customer experience is around the demographics of the people that are coming there and the reason why they're going there. If you've got a pie shop and you ran out of pies and customers go somewhere else and the pie is better but they are slower, they still may come back to you. Is that fair to say or is there more play here? Floris: Yes, it's absolutely fair to say, which is why earlier I said that it was a complex question with a complex answer because there are multiple factors. If we take it purely on price, then if you've got a competitor with a low-priced pie within the same geographic area, then there's a good chance that they'll go for that one. Floris: But let's say, yes, it's a bit slower but it tastes better, then you're more likely going to want to have that pie because it does taste better than the quicker one. Floris: Yes, it's fast but one of the reasons I don't go to McDonald's is because personally I'll eat a burger and within two hours I'm hungry again. Yes, they've got a great customer experience inside now with the ordering screens as well. You get your number, you pick it up, and then you can sit down. You can do the drive-thru, and you can take it home. But I don't do drive-thru because it stinks inside the car. I don't take it home because it's cold and inedible by the time I get home, in my opinion. If I go to McDonald's, I'm in a rush and I need to get something done right, and I'm more likely going to be doing it in the store. The only other reason I go to McDonald's is the kids love their Happy Meals. What a scam that is. Did you know that McDonald's is the largest toy distributor in the world just because of their Happy Meals? Floris: Forget about value, just purely on volume. That's because they've done some amazing marketing on getting these kids hooked on Happy Meals. Happy Meals and sugar, and they do great. I know a lot of people, including my sister, who love McDonald's. I'd rather eat a hundred other things before McDonald's. Floris: They've catered to the customer, which is the little one that will nag and nag and nag the parents until the parents cave in and say, 'Yes, we'll go to McDonald's.' Very emotional decision. Floris: Absolutely. Not in the sense of I'm going to get something I really want. What I really want is for my kids to stop nagging me. Not to destroy the McDonald's brand, because we can't and that's not the aim of the conversation, but it's the lesser of two evils. I love my kids and I respect them enormously, but still, when they nag, it's unbearable. It Depends on Customer Expectation  Floris: Back to the customer experience. They've created that customer experience. You go in, you get what you get. Floris: They've got their 500 or 700-page manual that every franchise is exactly the same, so your expectations are met in each and every store that you walk into. Each and every McDonald's will give you the exact same thing, and the exact same thing is not that burger in the picture because we all know that's fake. It's consistent in its delivery and its service and in its product. The tastes are the same. They're all sourced locally, they say, but in any case, they are built all to the same standards, and therefore, you will get what you pay for. Floris: And that's the expectation of the customers and they provide that positive experience that, regardless of the taste, you keep coming back to McDonald's, even if you go there every blue moon or something. Floris: On the other hand, Grill'd, you're absolutely right. It's more gourmet. Location-wise, they're more into the CBDs, where you've got a high-net-worth, middle-class people who are willing to pay slightly more than a convenience fast food store. They will sit down. They'll eat it as well. They'll enjoy it. They'll have a conversation. It's much more of a social event. These are the expectations they have and these are the expectations that are met by growth, which is why they're doing fine. Businesses Measure Customer Experience Differently  So it doesn't always have to be the same metrics that you're measuring, as long as you know what they are and why people are coming to you. How do you go about creating that customer experience strategy? How do you go about actually playing through that? We do a lot of work with IT companies to better their processes. We also do a lot of work with schools, governments and small-to-medium businesses, and all their needs are very different and things that are important to them are very different. A lot of the time, small businesses could be more money-conscious. They are only just starting up. They're on an oily rag. They just want to have the smallest thing to get them through to tomorrow to be able to continue working. Generally speaking, a more experienced business will look more towards longer-term goals and have different interests that will then market ourselves around. With pen and paper, how would you go about creating a customer experience strategy? Should you just maybe cancel out all the different things and look at whatever is bringing in the money to your business and focus heavily on that one vertical. What is a customer experience strategy? Floris: Let's go over the definition of strategy. In its simplest form, the word strategy means a roadmap to do A, B, C in order to get you to Objective X. It's nothing more than a roadmap on how to achieve your objective, so you need to know what your objective is. Floris: In order to know what your objective is, you need to understand who you're doing it for so we can go back to the assignments in a golden circle. Why is it that you do what you do? How is it that you do it? What is it that you deliver in order to achieve it? Floris: Let's assume for a second that you know why you do things like in your case, you have an absolute obsessive joy of delivering highly automated and optimised processes for organisations because you want to give people their time back in order for them to be able to scale up but also have a family life. The way you do it is you set up an organisation with like-minded people and you now have a team that will then have the same passion and the same drive as you in order to deliver the service or product to your customers. You do hosting, you do automation, you do processes and all of these things. That's the 'what.' These are your products and services. Floris: But you started off by understanding who it is that you're trying to do it for. You have your objective. Let's say this year I want to have 20 million in turnover. And now the strategy comes into play, which is how you map out going from A to B in order to achieve that objective. Floris: Now you have all the elements in place. Let's go back to the pie store example. You know the customers like these five pies out of the 10 that you've got on your menu, so you're going to focus your production, stock purchases, etc. on these five pies. You still need the other ones because they're about 20% of your business, but you need to focus on 80% right now. Floris: You also know that most of your customers are in or around the CBD area, and they eat around lunchtime. You need to have a location that can actually put you in the most optimal place for these people to actually come to you. Is that an actual store, a fixed store, or is it a van or a food truck? Floris: Once you've answered these questions, you start looking at how are you going to market services? Should you go around all the companies and drop a flyer at the reception area so that people can see when they walk into the building in the morning? Should you do targeted Facebook ads or should you do LinkedIn ads because you're targeting professionals working in CBD? Floris: Pure statistic. There are about 26 million residents in Australia, and 11.6 million of them are on LinkedIn. If you would do LinkedIn targeted ads, which are a bit expensive, but you can actually market your pie to all of these professionals that are looking at their LinkedIn in the morning and getting hungry and then go look for that food truck. Floris: You know what you want to do. You know who you're doing it for. You know why you're doing it. Now you just basically build a roadmap in order to get there, and that could very easily be a pen-and-paper type of strategy where you go like, 'This is the shop or the food truck. I need to be there from 11:30 AM to 2:30 PM. I need to have the meat pies half-cooked by then. And I need 200 of these. 600 of these. 700 of these.' Customer Experience Strategy Doesn't Have to Be Complicated  It's not that hard. It doesn't have to be that difficult. As I was saying at the start, you can have websites looking at the different types of traffic that are coming, the demographics of the people that are coming there and then have your website do all other sorts of stuff to make sure they're on their customer journey. But it doesn't have to be that complicated. Floris: No, that could be your optimisation process afterwards. Once you get the foundations or the basics in place, and they're working. Let's say you now have another food shop that comes next to you and it's selling nachos. All of a sudden, you're competing. How can you start getting an edge? How can you start improving your business so that you can be more efficient in terms of your stock or in terms of your marketing? Focus on the Foundation Floris: We can go back into marketing terms like customer acquisition cost and all of these intricacies that business consultants love to talk about, which is all optimisation. This is all fine tuning. This is all taking the basics that you have in place and just making them slightly better. Floris: If you don't have the right foundations, you're basically just amplifying something that's not good. It's absolutely essential to actually have the foundations in place. Once you have these, then you can optimise and start looking into more details. Floris: Customer experience and marketing are very close to each other, but it's all about testing. You've got the basics in place. If you do this, what would happen? You can do A/B testing.  Floris: Let's say you chose to sell pies in Location A on Wednesday, and you earned $100,000. You went to that same location on Thursday, and you earned $80,000. So you know that it's probably best to be there on one day and choose another location on the other day. It's about taking that data, analysing the data, finding insights out of it, and then applying it to whatever it is that you do. Keep a Record of Everything Make sure you're recording that and keeping that so you can see what the trends were. If there were things that you weren't aware of and you picked up on, that would be very important. Floris: What can be tracked can be managed, and what can be monitored can be managed. If you're not monitoring your income, even the ATO is going to come to you. Floris: The same principle applies to everything else. If you want to be good at what you do, you have to be able to track it, monitor it, and then draw conclusions from it or insights and turn those into business applications. A lot of the time, we try and think that we do A and B happens, but there could be a whole bunch of different things. Like on the Wednesday and $100,000 example, maybe there was a huge conference just around the corner and you had a lot of people that came out. I'm happy to say that in October I'm going to become a dad, so I'm pretty excited. It was interesting. I've been doing a lot of research on how babies communicate, how language works for them and things like that.  Gather Data Until You Get a Pattern One of the cool things that I thought is when they see something or they're introduced to a new object, they don't start saying it until they're confident of that object and what it's called. It's the same as if you're sitting there and there are five different types of exotic fruit, and I just pointed across and said, 'That's a holla baba.' You wouldn't say anything and the baby doesn't, but then if you then saw that same piece of fruit in a completely different example someone said, 'Oh, that's a holla baba.' The baby would be like, 'All right. I now know through the process of elimination that that's what it is.' Floris: I'm not an expert. I'm not a neurologist. I'm not a medical professional in any way, shape or form. What I do know is what you just described there is how kids learn, and I know that from my own two kids. It's pattern recognition. In order to recognise a pattern, you need data. Without the data, you can't really do anything. Floris: If you've picked up that on that Wednesday, you made $100,000 in front of that location or at that location, that same location made $80,000 a week later, and you made $120,000 the week afterwards. It averages out quite nicely, but why were there differences? Is it just a normal everyday life or were there events during that? Observe the data points. Two points make a straight line. With three points, you start getting a bit of a trend or a pattern. Floris: The more data points you have, the more accurate your insight could be. But now that you have them and if you have a curious mind, which every entrepreneur should have, then you can start investigating what was happening at that location or within a kilometre or a two-kilometre range of that location. On that day, was there a museum event? Was there a conference? Was there a street band that was playing really well? Was it good weather? Was it bad weather? Your competitors down the road shut down. Floris: Absolutely right. You can take all of that data. For a large corporation, it's becoming easier to actually take all of these different data points into account because they can throw it into a machine learning algorithm and then something will pop up that says, 'Hey, you've done really well on this day because you had the high exposure for the number of people that were walking on the street.' Floris: But if you were a small organisation, you can do quite a lot of this quite manually and all you need is Google for your searches and YouTube, which is the second-largest search engine in the world, for your how-tos, in case something doesn't jive really well or you need some help with some piece of software or whatever. Ask the Right Questions Floris: All you need is a curious mind. Ask yourself all of the right questions. If you are going down the route of the back questions, it's good to have some sounding boards like either coach or consultant or anyone that you have on retainer for a once-a-month check-in or accountability sessions. Floris: Entrepreneurs sometimes might get a bit slack. They can lose their motivation for a day. It's not easy being an entrepreneur. It's not easy setting up a business. You could lose. It takes a lot of mental energy. If you have a bad day, it could impact your business. If you have employees, that could impact your employees. Having that support structure from a consulting perspective is actually quite helpful, but it's about asking the right questions. Get an Extra Pair of Eyes You've touched on a lot of information here. If anyone is out there and they are looking for a consultant or someone to be able to talk to and make sure that they have the right strategy, they're looking at the right data, possibly not getting distracted by cat videos, make sure they have a level of accountability, they are keeping on track and looking at the right resources, is that something you can help people with? Floris: Absolutely. As a consultant and an entrepreneur myself and as an ex-corporate myself, I have the experience and the passion, if you wish, to help people to get the answers and to help them along their way to achieve the success they want. I'm focused quite a lot on marketing strategy, customer experience and digital transformation. When I say digital transformation, I'm not talking about IT stuff. I come at it from a commercial and business point of view. Floris: Digitisation, digitalisation and digital transformation are three different things. Digitisation is basically analogue to digital. Digitalisation is looking at your value proposition. Digital transformation is when you look at the entire structure of the company—its culture, people, processes and technology in that order. That's where I focus on as well, and that fits quite nicely with marketing strategy. I definitely think that extra eyes can't hurt, and having a set of eyes go over that would help anyone out. We'll get you in to check out our process. I always think that we're doing all right, and then I get on one of these conferences and I go, 'No, we're not okay.' Now, there's lots of it you can be learning. There's Always Be Learning. ABL is something I'm very, very fond of, and hearing from someone else's perspective is always exciting. Floris: A word of caution: never really go down that rabbit hole. There's always that risk. Sometimes what you're doing is actually good enough, right? It's having someone affirm that sometimes that is needed. Bonus: Plan, Plan and Plan I am guilty of being an engineer first, business entrepreneur second, and that means that I have a ready-fire-aim mentality. It's very difficult for me. I'll spend 90% of the time on planning, and 10% on execution. When it's executed, it's fantastic and it always works. Floris: If that's your mantra, that's really good because Albert Einstein said that if he's got an hour to solve the problem, he'll spend 55 minutes on understanding the problem and 5 minutes on actually solving it. Perfect! I hadn't heard that quote actually. That's cool. We're coming very close to the end of the podcast now. I had a couple of quick questions. You might have already answered them, but you brought up Simon Sinek's Know Your Why. I wanted to understand from you what is your favourite book or what is the book that you suggest for some of our listeners to read to further understand customer experience. Suggested Read: The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People Floris: The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. One of my favourite quotes is you can control what's within your reach, but you can only influence what's not within your reach. That's something that helped me quite a lot in my career as well. Similar to you, I used to go down quite a lot of rabbit holes and I used to want to impact all kinds of things, but I couldn't and I used to build so much frustration in me. I read the Stephen Covey book, and since then I only focus on what I can manage, what I can influence is great. Anything outside of that scope is unfortunately beyond. I have that book. I thought it was in my bag. It must have been in the car at the moment. I'm going through for a second read. It's definitely a fantastic read. I love having you on the show. Is there anything else you'd like to cover? Floris' Tip: Breathe, Think It Through and Move Forward Floris: If you're a budding entrepreneur, if you're starting out, it might feel overwhelming. Focus on your breathing. I tell that to all of my kids and my wife, and I use that technique. When you get overwhelmed, whatever the reason, slow down, breathe, think it through and then move forward. That applies for business, sports, even tests. Focus on not getting overwhelmed. Don't overthink.  The guts sometimes, right? Floris: Yeah. Even now at my age, I'm still learning to listen to my gut. The older I get, the more I want to listen to it and the less I want to use my head because my head sometimes can go off on many tangents. Instinct is one of the crucial factors in business that cannot be monitored or quantified, but it shouldn't be underestimated. I completely agree. I think everyone's played a couple of games of pool after a couple of beers and they all of a sudden become better when they stop thinking about it. Floris: Inhibition levels drop. What is business freedom to you? One last question. The podcast is Business Built Freedom. What is business freedom to you? Floris: Business freedom is another way to actually get life freedom. Being able to secure an income for my family so that I can actually spend time with them. Live to work and not work to live. It's the freedom of actually being able to have that good work-life balance but also have an impact on the life of the people around me. Hopefully, if I'm big enough one day to actually have an impact on people beyond our Australian borders, that would be nice. I love having you on the show, Floris. I hope everyone else has enjoyed the time that we've had together. If you do have any questions, we will have him jump across to the Facebook group to better answer anything you might have there. Otherwise, feel free to jump across to iTunes, leave us some love, give us some feedback and as always, stay good and stay healthy. Floris: Thank you very much for the time and for having me on the show, and thanks to your listeners for listening in.  

Do you feel like you're nowhere near your goals? Do you want something so badly but think that it's impossible to achieve? Having goals in life gives us a sense of purpose. Whether they're for our career or relationships, goals push us to give our best. However, we sometimes set too many goals and find ourselves stuck. We can also feel discouraged from pursuing our dreams because we subject ourselves to other people’s standards. But while our plans may sometimes seem impossible, we have everything we need. If you can stay determined and learn how to prioritise, we can have our breakthrough. In this episode, Dr John Demartini joins us to talk about living your best life by structuring it. Learn how to prioritise and you can achieve anything. He shares the philosophy of the Breakthrough Experience, which has miraculously helped thousands of people reach their goals. John also discusses how to make decisions based on priorities, not emotions and instincts. 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If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or are wanting to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.   Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless. 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Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined Cellular Health Energy & Focus Bone Density Skin Elasticity DNA Repair Cardiovascular Health Brain Health  Metabolic Health   My  ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.   Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: Learn about the Breakthrough Experience and how it has changed thousands of lives. Discover how to prioritise and determine your top priorities. John shares his secret to retaining Information in the quickest way possible.   Episode Highlights [05:00] About John Dr John is an educator, researcher and writer. He has spent over 48 years helping people maximise their potential. John wanted to know what allows people to do extraordinary things. That's why he distilled information from great minds throughout history. He made them into practical things that people today can use.  John had speech and learning challenges as a kid. At a doctor’s recommendation, his parents took him out of school and put him into sports. After having a near-death experience at 17, Paul Bragg inspired John to overcome his learning problems. With the help of his mom, he eventually learned how to read.  Listen to the full episode to learn more about John's inspiring story! [15:42] How Surfing Changed John’s Mindset Surfing has taught John that people are not going to excel without perseverance and commitment.  John converted his determination for surfing into persistence in reading.  [17:57] The Breakthrough Experience The Breakthrough Experience is a philosophy and program changing lives globally.  This system teaches you how to prioritise and structures life by priority. It breaks through limitations and helps achieve life goals.  John teaches people to use any experience, even challenges. These are catalysts for transformation and progress.  John has helped people learn how to prioritise to get their breakthrough experience in different areas of life. These include businesses, careers, health, relationships, among others. Lisa relates the Breakthrough Experience philosophy to when her mom had a severe aneurysm. [24:14] John Shares a Miraculous Experience At 27 years old, John handled a family with a son in a three-year coma. The family went to different hospitals in Mexico and the United States. However, they found none to help their son. They then went to John, and he thought of a maneuver to help the child. However, the treatment also came with significant risk. Listen to the full episode to find out how John helped a child get out of a three-year coma. [33:34] Jesse Billauer’s Breakthrough Experience Jesse Billauer, a surfer, decided to go to the Breakthrough Experience after a surfing accident.  At the time, he was depressed because he was physically unable to surf.  After the Breakthrough Experience, he learned how to prioritise and what his top priority was. Jesse became determined not to let anything stop him from surfing. Jesse developed a way to surf as a quadriplegic person. He taught others how to do the same.  [38:58] Herd Mentality in the Sciences New ideas are violently opposed and ridiculed. That's why people fear going against the norm. People who aim to survive follow the multitude. People who want to thrive create a new paradigm.  Each person can excel at anything if they focus on that, not on others' opinions.  [41:37] How to Prioritise John made a list of every single thing he does in a day over three months. He then placed multiple columns next to that list. The first column contains how much money each task produces per hour. The second column contains how much a job inspires him on a scale of 1-10. He also considered the cost and the time spent on each activity.  After doing that, he prioritised the activities that made thousands of dollars. He also focused on ones that scored ten on the inspiration scale.   John hired people for the low-priority tasks. This choice allowed him to be more productive in his top priorities. Within 18 months, his business increased tenfold. Listen to the full episode to learn how to prioritise and about investing in your top priority.  [56:19] How John Stays Looking Young John is almost 67 years old. However, Lisa describes him as someone who looks like a teenager. John doesn't eat junk. He drinks a lot of water, has never had coffee in his life and hasn't had alcohol in over 48 years. Doing what you love every day also slows down the aging process.  [58:03] Some Lessons from the Breakthrough Experience Nothing is missing in you. When you compare yourself to others, you'll try to live by their values or get them to live by yours. Both of these are futile.  Sticking to your values and priorities is key to resilience and success. People are different from each other, but no one is better than the other.  If you don't empower your own life, others will overpower you.   Your mission is something that you're willing to get through any means necessary. [1:06:38] How to Get Your Amygdala Under Control The amygdala is associated with emotions and the "fight-or-flight" response. Because we have neuroplasticity, we can remodel our internal system.  Perceiving challenges and feeling shame and guilt trigger an autoimmune reaction that attacks your body. Every time we choose to live by the highest priority, the amygdala calms down. The prefrontal cortex is reinforced. [1:12:03] The Mind-Body Connection Our psychological processes also affect our physiological processes.  People are used to blaming external factors. They don't take accountability for the things they experience.  John uses the example of when people get symptoms after eating unhealthy food. They don't face the fact that they brought it upon themselves.  Our bodies do an excellent job of guiding us. That's why we should learn how to listen to them. [1:18:13] The Journey to Financial Independence There is nothing evil about having money.  John believes that you can be a slave to money, or you can be a master of it.  Nothing is stopping you from doing what you love to do. [1:21:28] How to Retain Information Teaching what you've learned is the key to retention. Teaching compels your mind to organise ideas and reinforce them.  Teach the concepts as soon as you've discovered them. Don't wait until you're an expert on the subject. Resources Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! You can choose between being an official or VIP patron for $7 and $15 NZD per month, respectively. Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-ageing and longevity with NMN Bio. Related Pushing the Limits Episodes 135: How To Make Better Decisions Consistently 183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Elena Seranova 189: Increasing Your Longevity with Elena Seranova Connect with John: Website | Facebook | Linkedin | YouTube | Instagram ‎The Demartini Show Demartini Value Determination Process The Breakthrough Experience program Join John's The Mind-Body Connection course Learn more about Jesse Billauer and his story. High Surf: The World's Most Inspiring Surfers by Tim Baker The Time Trap: The Classic Book on Time Management by Alec Mackenzie and Pat Nickerson  Brain Wash: Detox Your Mind for Clearer Thinking, Deeper Relationships, and Lasting Happiness by David and Austin Perlmutter The Top Five Regrets of the Dying: A Life Transformed by the Dearly Departing by Bronnie Ware   7 Powerful Quotes ‘I'm an educator, a researcher, a writer. I do a lot of interviews and filming for documentaries. I've been spending 48 years now on doing anything I can to help human beings maximise their potential.’ ‘I love studying and learning anything I can from those people that have done extraordinary things and then passing that on.” “I love anybody who's done something extraordinary on the planet in any field. I love devouring their journey.’ ‘No matter what the teacher was trying to do, I just couldn't read. And my teacher and my parents come to the school and said, ‘You know, your son's not able to read. He's not going to be able to write effectively’ because I wrote kind of backwards.’ ‘Well, I'm surfing the cosmic waves now. And in surfing big cosmic waves, radio waves that are big waves. Yes, that's the move from water waves into electromagnetic waves.’ ‘And so the Breakthrough Experience is about accessing that state. And breaking through the limitations that we make up in our mind and transforming whatever experiences you have into “on the way” not “in the way”.’ ‘She said that there was something that took over me, I can't describe it. It was like a very powerful feeling — like I had a power of a Mack truck. And me? I don't know how to describe it.’   About Dr John Dr John Demartini is an author, researcher, global educator and world-renowned human behaviour specialist. Making self-development programs and relationship solutions is part of his job. Among his most popular programs is the Breakthrough Experience. It is a personal development course that aims to help individuals achieve whatever goal they have. As a child, Dr John had learning challenges and could not read and write well until 18 years old. He has now distilled information from over 30,000 books across all academic disciplines and shares them online and on stage in over 100 countries.  Interested in knowing more about Dr John and his work? You may visit his website or follow him on Facebook, Linkedin, YouTube and Instagram.   Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends! Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can achieve their life goals by learning how to prioritise. Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts. To pushing the limits, Lisa   Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.  Lisa Tamati: Welcome back to Welcome back to Pushing the Limits. This week, I have Dr John Demartini. He is a world renowned speaker, teacher, educator, researcher, medical doctor. He's written I don't know how many books, countless, countless books. He's an incredible, incredible man who teaches literally thousands and thousands of people every year in his breakthrough experience. The information that you're going to get in this podcast could change your life. So I've given you a fair warning. He's an amazing, incredible man that, and I've talked to a lot of incredible people but this one is really next level, he started out as a big wave surfer in Hawaii, way back in the day. Even knew Laird Hamilton and people like that. Had learning disabilities and could hardly read or write, and yet managed to overcome all these things to become one of the greatest scholars that there is. He's read over 30,000 books. He has distilled the knowledge from people right through the ages, through leaders and philosophers and stoics and scientists. He's an expert in so many different areas. He teaches people in business, he teaches people how to overcome massive challenges in their life. So I really hope that you enjoy this episode. It is going to get uncomfortable in places because we’ll talk about really being accountable, really understanding our own physiology, and just so much more. An absolutely amazing interview. So I hope you enjoy it.  Before we head over to the show, just reminder, we have our patron membership for the podcast Pushing the Limits. If you want to join our VIP tribe, we would love you to come and do that. It's about the price of a cup of coffee a month or two. If you want to join on the premium level, we would love you to come and join us. Support the show. Help us get this work out there. We are passionate about what we do. We want to change lives, we want to improve your life, we want to improve the lives of others. And we need your help to do that to keep the show going. So please, head over to patron.lisatamati.com. Check out all the premium VIP member benefits here, and support the show. Be a part of this community, be a part of this tribe. Help support us and reach out to me or the team. If you have any questions around any of the topics or any of the guests that have come up. We would love to hear from you. Any feedback is always welcome. Please always give a rating and review to the show as well on iTunes or whatever platform that you listen to. That is really, really helpful as well. We do appreciate you doing that. And as a reminder, please also check out our epigenetics program. We have a system now that can personalise and optimise your entire life to your genetics. So check out our program, what it's all about. This is based on the work of hundreds of scientists, not our work. It has been developed over the last 20 years, from 15 different science disciplines all working in collaborating together on this one technology platform that will help you understand your genes and apply the information to your life. So check that out. Go to lisatamati.com and hit the Work With Us button and you'll see their Peak Epigenetics, check out that program. And while you're there, if you're a runner, check out our Running Hot Coaching program as well. Customised, personalised training plans made specifically for you, for your goals. You get a video analysis, you get a consultation with me and it's all in a very well-priced package. So check that out at runninghotcoaching.com.  Now over to the show with Dr John Demartini. Well, Hi everyone and welcome to Pushing The Limits. Today, I am super excited for my guest. My guest is an absolute superstar. Welcome to the show. Firstly and foremostly, thank you very much for taking the time out today. Dr John, I'm just really excited to have you. Whereabouts are you sitting in the world? Dr John: I am in Houston, Texas. I'm in a hotel room in Houston, Texas, even though it shows that I've got a library.  Lisa: Yeah,I love that background. That is a fantastic background. Really great. Well, greetings to Texas and I hope that everything is going well over there for you. Today, I wanted to talk about you, your work, the breakthrough experience. Some of the learnings and the exciting mission that you've been on for now. For 47 years, I believe. Something crazy like that. So Dr John, can you just give us a little bit of a background on you and your life and what you do on a day to day basis? Big question. Dr John: I'm an educator, a researcher, a writer. I do a lot of interviews and filming for documentaries. I've been spending 48 years now, over 48 years, on doing anything I can to help human beings maximise their potential, their awareness potential, and achieve whatever it is that they're inspired to achieve. So that could be raising a beautiful family to building a massive business to becoming fortunate or celebrity, doesn't matter. It's whatever it is that inspires them. I've been studying human behaviour and anything and everything I can get my hands on for the last 48 years to assist people in mastering a lot. That's what I love doing. I do it every day. I can't think of any else I'd rather be doing. So I just do it. Lisa: It's a bit of a role model for me, Dr John, because I think what you have achieved in this time, the way you've distilled information, I mean, you've studied, last time I looked on one of your podcasts, that was over 30,000 books, probably more now. And you've distilled the information from great masters throughout history into practical things that humans today can actually benefit from. Is that a good assessment of what you basically have done? Dr John: I'm writing right now a 1200 page textbook on philosophers and great minds through the ages. I summarise it. I love studying and learning anything I can from those people that have done extraordinary things, and then passing that on. So yes. Right now, I'm actually, I just finished, I’m just finishing up Albert Einstein, which is one of my heroes. I had a dream when I was young. When I saw that E = mc² drawn on that board, I wanted to find out where that board was. I went to Princeton, and met with Freeman Dyson, who took over his position at Princeton in 1955. Spent part of the day with him and we're talking on cosmology. I wrote my formula on that same board, exactly the same place, because that was a dream that I had since I was probably 18, 19. Lisa: Wow, and you got to fulfill it and actually love it. Dr John: Yeah. Took me a bit of time. So what? But yeah, I love anybody who's done something extraordinary on the planet in any field. I love devouring their journey and their thinking. That's every Nobel Prize winner I've gone through and every great philosopher and thinker and business leader and financially or spiritually, to try to find out and distill out what is the very essence that drives human beings? And what is it that allows them to do extraordinary things? So I wanted to do that with my life. Most of the people I get in front of want to feel like they want to make a massive difference. They want to make a difference in the world. They want to do something that’s deeply meaningful, inspiring. And so yeah, we're not 'put your head in the product glue and let the glue stick' and then pass it on.  Lisa: Instead of having to reinvent the world, why not? So Dr John, can you give us a little bit of history though, because you're obviously an incredible scholar,have an incredible mind. But as a child, you struggled with learning and with reading and writing.Can you give us a little, how the heck did you go from being this kid that struggled with all of that to where you are today? One of the greatest minds out there.  Dr John:  Yeah, I definitely had some learning challenges. I had a speech challenge when I was a year and a half old to four, I had to wear buttons in my mouth and put strings in my mouth and practice using all kinds of muscles. Went to a speech pathologist. When I was in first grade. No matter what the teacher was trying to do, I just couldn't read. My teacher, and my parents would come to the school and said, 'You know, your son's not able to read. He's not going to be able to write effectively,' because I wrote kind of backwards. 'I don't think he's going to mountain and go very far in life, put him into sport.' Because I like to run. And I did sports there for a while. But then I went from baseball to surfing. I hitchhiked out to California and down Mexico and then made it over to Hawaii so I could ride big waves and I was doing big wave and stuff when I was a teenager. So I didn't have academics. I dropped out of school. I was a street kid from 13 to 18. But then right before 18 I nearly died. That's when I met Paul Bragg, who inspired me one night in a presentation. That night I got so inspired that I thought, 'Maybe I could overcome my learning problems by applying what this man just taught me. And maybe someday I could learn to read and write and speak properly.' That was such an inspiration, such a moment of inspiration that it changed the course of my life. I had to go back. And with the help of my mum, I went and got a dictionary out, started to read a dictionary and memorise 30 words a day until my vocabulary. I had to spell the word, pronounce the word, use it with a meaningful sentence, and develop a vocabulary. Eventually doing that 30 we would, we wouldn't go to bed. I didn't go to bed until I had 30 new words, really inculcated. My vocabulary grew. And I started to learn how to do the reading. It was not an easy project. But, man, once I got a hold of it, I never stopped. Lisa: And once you started to read, you didn’t stop. Dr John: I've never stopped. I've been a voluminous reader now. You know, 48 years. Lisa: That’s just incredible. Dr John: I can’t complain. Lisa: So was it a dyslexia or learning disability? I just asked because my mum was a teacher of children with dyslexia and things like that. Was there specific ways that you were able to overcome the disability so to speak? Dr John: Yeah, I just, sheer persistence and determination to want to read and learn. I remember, I took my first, I took a GED test, a general education high school equivalency test. And I guessed, literally guessed, I close my eyes. I said this little affirmation that Paul Bragg gave me that, 'I'm a genius, and I apply my wisdom.' And some miraculous thing made me pass that test. I didn't know how to read half the stuff that was on it. I just went with my intuition and guessed. And I tried to go to college, after taking that test and had the test. I failed. And I remember driving home crying because I had this idea that I was going to learn how to teach and become intelligent. Then when I got a 27, everybody else got 75 and above. I got a 27 and I thought, 'Well, there's no way it's going to work.' But then I sat there and I cried and my mum came home from shopping, and she saw me crying on the living room floor. She said, ‘Son, what happened? What's wrong?’ I said, ‘Mum, I failed the test. I guess I don't have what it takes.’ And I repeated what the first grade teacher said, 'I guess I'll never read or write or communicate effectively, or amount too much. I guess I'll go back to Hawaii and make surfboards and surf. Because I was pretty good at that.' And she said to me something that was a real mind bender. She put her hand on me and she said, ‘Son, whether you become a great teacher, philosopher and travel the world like your dream, whether return to Hawaii and ride giant waves like you've done, return to the streets and panhandle like you've done. I just want to let you know that your father and I are going to love you no matter what you do.’ Lisa: Wow, what a mum. Dr John: That was an amazing moment. When she said that, my hand went into a fist of determination. And I said to myself, ‘I'm gonna match this thing called reading and studying and learning. I'm gonna match this thing called teaching and philosophy. And I'm going to do whatever it takes, I'm going to travel whatever distance, I'm gonna pay whatever price, to give my source of love across this planet.’ I got up and I hugged her. And I said to myself, ‘I'm not gonna let any human being on the face of the earth stop me, not even myself.’ I got out of my room. And that's when I decided with her help to do the dictionary. That was an amazing turning point. Lisa: And I can feel it, the emotion and what a wonderful mum you had. I mean, what a perfect thing to say when someone's down. Dr John: It was the most. If she hadn't said that, I might’ve come back to surfing. I might  be a surfer today. Lisa: Which would have been a good thing as well, probably because surfing is great. Dr John: It didn’t make money in those days. I'm in the mid 60s and 70s, early 70s. But,, now, the guys I served with, Laird Hamilton and- Lisa: Wow. He's a hero is amazing.  Dr John: Both Ben Aipa, Gerry Lopez, and these guys, those are the guys I served with. And so those guys went on to be incredible. Lisa: I wasn't aware of that. Dr John: I lived at the same beach park in Haleiwa, where Ehukai Beach Park is, near Pipeline, between Rocky Point and Pipeline. Laird Hamilton was dropped off by his mother there and lived there on the beach. I lived up on where the park bench was. We lived right there and I saw him on the beach each morning. He was seven, I was 16. He was going on seven, I was almost 17. We live there at the same place and Bill Hamilton saw him out there and grabbed him and took him in and trained them on surfing and found his mum and then married the mum. That's how I became. I hung out with those characters. Lisa: Legends. You became a legend in this direction and they have become a legend in a different direction. Dr John: Well, there's a book out called The High Surf by Tim Baker. That’s from Australia. He wrote a book on people that rode big waves. And he said, 'I'd like to put you in there.' I said, 'Well, I didn't go on to be the superstar in that area like these other guys.' He said, 'But I want you in there because you became a legend. Lisa: Became a superstar. Dr John: Yeah Lisa: Do you think that there's, you know, I come from a surfing family. My brother's a big wave surfer in New Zealand. I've tried and failed miserably, stuck to running. I was better at it. But do you think there's a correlation between the mindset that you developed as a surfer? Because going in those big waves is scary. It's daunting. It's frightening. It's challenging. It's teaching you a lot. Is there a lot that you took from that for this journey that you've been on? Dr John: Yeah, I didn't surf anything more than 40-foot waves. So I think that was about as good as about as big as you get back in the 70s. At 70s is when I was- Lisa: Oh, just a mere 40, it’s okay. Dr John: Well, 40-foot waves was the biggest thing out in outer reef pipeline was the big thing. They hadn't had tow-in surfing yet. That was just, that wasn't begun yet. So there was that idea, we had to catch those waves. That was not easy because they're too big to catch. you got to have big long boards, and you got to really paddle to get into those waves, and it's usually too late. But I think some of those, I used to surf 11 hours a day sometimes. When you're really, really committed to doing something, that's... Einstein said perseverance is the key to making things happen and if you just stay with something. So, if you're not inspired to do something, enough to put in the hours and put in the effort, and you don't have somebody that you can bounce ideas off of, kind of mentoring you, you probably are not going to excel as much. But I did that. And then I just converted that over into breeding 18 to 20 hours a day, feeding once I learned to read, so I just and I still voluminously read I mean, I read every single day. Lisa: That is incredible. And so you've taken that big wave mindset a little bit over into something else. So obviously, everything you, do you do to the nth degree, we can probably agree on that one. Dr John: I'm surfing the cosmic waves now. And in surfing big cosmic waves, radio waves that are big waves. I move from water waves into electromagnetic waves. Lisa: Wow. Now, you run something called The Breakthrough Experience, which you've been doing now for 40 something years. This is a philosophy and a system and a program that really changes lives and has changed lives all over the planet. Can you tell us a little bit about what you've distilled from all this information that you have in your incredible mind? And what you teach in this course, and how this can actually help people? Today, right now listening to this? Dr John: Well, the breakthrough experiences, sort of my attempt to do with what that gentleman did to me when I was 17. I've done it 1121 times into that course. I keep records, and I'm a metric freak. Every human being lives by a set of priorities, a set of values, things that are most important. Lisa: Podcast life. Dr John: Welcome to it. I thought that was off, but I didn't quite get it off. But whatever is highest on the person's values, priorities, whatever is truly deeply meaningful to them, the thing that is spontaneously inspiring for them to that they can't wait to get up the morning and do.If they identify that and structure their life by priority, delegating the lower priority things and getting on with doing that, they will build momentum, incremental momentum and start to excel and build what we could say is a legacy in the world. And so, the breakthrough experience is about accessing that state, and breaking through the limitations that we make up in our mind,  transforming whatever experiences you have into 'on the way' not 'in the way.' So no matter what goes on in your life, you can use it to catalyse a transformation and movement towards what it is that you're committed to. And if you're not clear about it, we'll show you how to do it because many people subordinate to people around them. Cloud the clarity of what's really really inspiring from within them, and they let the herd instinct stop them from being heard.  I think that The Breakthrough Experiences is my attempt to do whatever I can, with all the tools that I've been blessed to gather to assist people in creating a life that is extraordinary, inspiring and amazing for them. And if I don't do whatever it takes in the program, I don't know when it's going to be. I've seen six year olds in there write books afterwards. I've seen nine year olds go on to get a deal with Disney for $2.2 million dollars. I've seen people in business break through plateaus. I’ve people have major issues with relationships break, too. I don't know what's gonna be. I've seen celebrities go to new levels. I've seen people that have health issues that heal. I mean, every imaginable thing, I’ve breaking through. I've seen it in that course. And it's the same principles applied now into different areas of life. In any other area of our life, if we don't empower, the world's going to overpower something. And I'm showing I want to show people how to not let anything on the outside world interfere with what's inside. Lisa: And you talk about, it's on the way, the challenges that we have to look at the challenges that we have and ask how is this going to actually help me get wherever I am. And this is something that I've managed to do a couple of times in my life really well, other times not so good. But where I've taken a really massive challenge, I had my own listeners, I had a mum who had a massive aneurysm five years ago, and we were told she would never have any quality of life again, massive brain damage. We know that's not happening on my watch. I'm going to, there is somebody in something in the world that can help with her. And this became my mantra that I was going to get back or die trying. That was that total dedication that I brought to her because of love. When you love someone, you're able to mobilise for the last resources that you have. And that nearly bloody killed me as far as the whole effort that went on to it, and the cost and the emotional costs, and the physical and the health and all the rest of it. It took me three years to get it back to health, full health. She's now got a full driver's license back and a full independent life back and as my wonderful mum again. And that was coming from a state of being in a vegetative state, not much over a vegetative state at least. Hardly any higher function, no speech, no move, be able to move anything. Dr John: That’s a book there. That's a book or a movie. Lisa: It's the book. Dr John: That's a book and a movie for sure. Lisa: Exactly. And this is very powerful. Because I saw this and when you're in the darkness, everybody is telling you there is no hope, there is no chance. And these are medical professionals who have been to medical school, who have a hell of a lot more authority than you. You just go, ‘No, I am not accepting it because that alternative means death, basically, decline and death in being in an institution. And that is not what I'm going to answer. I'm going to find somebody who can help me’ and I did. I found hundreds of people, actually, and this is what tipped me into doing what I'm doing now, is finding world leading experts to give me the next piece of the puzzle for her and for the people now that are following me so that I can help empower people, not to be limited by the people who tell us we can't do something. It's because that means basically they don't have the answer. Not that there is no answer, is my understanding. And they were right. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. But I did it and my mum is alive and she's well, and that book. I really want to empower people with a story. I see that same like they're obviously your passion. What you went through with your learning problems when you were young and your mum standing beside you has actually propelled you into this lifelong journey that I find absolutely fascinating because that passion, and I can see that passion in you, is still very much alive 48 years later because you're doing what your priority is. Dr John: I'm definitely doing what I love doing. It's interesting that your story reminded me of something that happened to me when I was 27. If you don't mind, I'd like to share this. So I graduated from my professional school. I had a bit of a reputation there of being kind of the taking the cream of the crop clients, patients that were turned down everywhere else. I just tackled it, see what we can do with it. And I got a family from Mexico, with a son that fell three stories off an apartment complex onto the ground on his head. He went into a coma, been in a coma for three and a half years. And the mother, they assumed he was dead a few times, but there was still a breath. There were still something. It wasn't a strong breath. You couldn't see it but you could put a mirror in front of you and get a little bit of breath out there. So he wasn't dead. And he had decerebrate rigidity. So his whole body was so rigid that when I saw him, you could lift up his feet and his whole body would rock. It was so stiff. His hands are like this. A classical decerebrate rigidity. And he had gone to, throughout different hospitals in Mexico, where he was from, and nobody checked them. They came to America, they went to the Medical Center in Houston, which is the largest Medical Center America. And they got rejected. No one would accept it. There's nothing we can do. They went out to the professional school that I'd gone to. And they said, ‘We can't do anything.’ But we know this interesting character. West Houston, if there's anybody that would try something this guy might try, who knows? And they sent him to my office. I remember when they came in, they carried him wrapped up in a white sheet, and laid him on the armrest of the chairs on my office. I looked out there and I saw this Mexican man and woman and seven or eight other kids in a family. I'm in this. At first, I didn't know what this was, this thing wrapped up in this sheet. They came down my hallway and I saw him going down the hallway. And like, ‘What on earth is this?’ Then they unveiled him in my exam room. And there was this 58 pound tube in his nose, coma case that was so stiff. It was ridiculous. I mean, he had gauze on his chin and his hand was rubbing on it and to protect the chin from having an ulcer. It had an odor to him in the head. It was just nothing. Just stare. He just sat there. But the mother and father said, ‘No, he's still alive. Please help.’ So I didn't really have much to do an exam with. So I got him, we took him in and did a film of his spine and his skull from the history. We found his foramen magnum, his skull was jammed down on a spinal cord and his spinal cord is up in his foramen magnum. This opening in the bottom of the skull. And I thought that night, when I was developing those films, and I looked at that I thought, 'I wonder what happened if I lifted that skull? If I've got that off? It could? Could something happen?' And I was scared because you just don't do that. He could die just instantly. I sent them over to this health food store to get him some liquid vitamins and minerals and amino acids to try to get nutrients in him because they're feeding him beans and rice with liquid. It was just crazy. So the next day came in. We had four doctors on a preceptorship visiting my office, one doctor that was working for me, one assistant, the seven or eight kids plus him and the mother and father in this little room. It was packed. And I said to him that I saw that on the film something that might have make him, help. I don't know, I can't guarantee it. But if we, if I did a particular manoeuvre, it might open up the brain function. And the little woman held on to her husband and she said, 'If he dies, he dies. If he lives, we rejoice. But please help us. We have nowhere else to go.' Lisa: Yeah. Wow. Dr John: She said that there was something that took over me, I can't describe it. It was like a very powerful feeling, like I had a power of a Mack truck in me. I don't know how to describe it. And I had this manoeuvre that we could do this, what they call the Chrane Condyle Lift, that can actually lift the skull up the spine. And I said to myself, if I'm not willing to have him die in my hands, I can't raise the dead with my hands as a little quote that I learned from an ancient healing philosopher. And I thought, 'Okay, we're, I'm going to take the risk, and just see what happens.' Because, I mean, I don't know what to do. I'm just gonna do it. Because I mean, they've got no place to go and I only took a rip. As I lifted that skull with this powerful movement. He came out of his coma. He came right out of the coma. He screamed, and this whining noise you couldn't. It was not coherent. It was just this whining sound. The whole family went on their knees, they were Catholic. They just went to their knees and prayed. I was blown away. I saw the four doctors one of them ran down the hallway and vomited, couldn't handle it. The other just stared. And here's this boy squirming on the table. I walked out to let the family be with the child for a minute and just sat with one of my doctors. We sat there and just cried. Because we knew that the spinal cord expressed life in the body. But we didn't know what would happen if we took the spinal cord, it just scanned off. Theoretically, it could kill you. But there was some still life in the spinal cord. Anyway, this boy went on to gain 20 pounds up to 78 pounds. We took him off the tube, we got him to move, we had everybody in the family take a joint in his body and move his joints to remobilise him. Sometimes I think we probably tore some ligaments doing it. But we got mobility. And this boy came out of it. And I have a picture here with me of the boy actually graduating from high school. Lisa: You’re kidding me? Why is this not an? What is not? Why have I never heard the story?  Dr John: I don’t get to share it too often. I didn't many years ago. I haven't practised in a long time. But all I know is that that was a moment that you just, it's probably like you had with your mum when you saw incremental progress. Lisa: Yeah. Just grind. Dr John: And I think that that's a metaphor. That's a metaphor. It doesn't matter where you've come from, doesn't matter what you're going through, doesn't matter what you've been through. What matters is you have something that you're striving for. And are you willing to do some incremental movement towards that? What else just said is, he's got a diagnosis. Diagnosis means through knowledge, supposedly, but it could also mean die to an agnosis. You don't know. Even the doctors don't know. But the reality is,  he came out of the coma. And I had over the next few months, I had some amazing cases of a boy that was blind and couldn't walk, and all of a sudden see and walked again. I had a boy that was paralysed quadriplegic, was able to walk. I mean, I had some amazing stuff happen. When you're willing to do what other people aren't willing to do, you're willing to experience when other people don't get to experience. Lisa: Yep, it is just so powerful. And I'm just absolutely blown away from that story. Because, I mean, I know with my mum who was only in a coma for three weeks, and had stroke and so on, and in the specificity and the things that I've had to deal with. The whole vestibular system being completely offline, she has like a rag doll, having to read, programming her from being a baby, basically, to being an adult, within that three year period with a body that is now like 79 years old. And the doctors going like, your brain can't change that much. And in just going, I'm going to keep going. I'm only listening to people who tell me I can do something, I'm not listening to anybody who tells me I can't do something. And this is something that I've really integrated into my entire life like as an athlete, doing stupidly long ultramarathon distances. I was always told you can't do this, and you can't do that. It's impossible. And I was like, 'We'll see.' I'm going to throw everything in it. And that was my passion at the time have now retired from doing the stupid distances because I've got other missions on in life. But whatever it is, is always the big mission. And then everybody comes up against people who tell you, you can't do it. This is one of the biggest limiting things that I see. Dr John: That's what Einstein said, greatness is automatically pounded by mediocre minds.  Lisa: Wow. Dr John: I had a boy, a boy attend my breakthrough experience, who had a surfing accident and became arms and legs not working, He could move his neck. He got a little bit of function slowly into the hand that was about it, just a tiny bit. And I remember a man wheeling him in and having them kind of strapped to a wheelchair. I knew the father and I knew his brother. There were doctors who were colleagues of mine. And they brought him, they flew him literally from Los Angeles over to Texas to come to the breakthrough experience. I remember him looking straight down really depressed, suicidal, because he was a surfer and he was on his way to being a great surfer. If he couldn't surf, he didn't want to live kind of. I remember getting on my knees and looking up at him at this chair, and I said, 'It all determines inside you what you decide. I don't know what the limit you have in your body. I don't know what you can repair. I don't know what you can do. I don't want to say you can't. But all I know is that if you're going to, you're going to have to put everything into it. You're gonna have to have no turning back kind of attitude. There's got to be a relentless pursuit of your master plan to serve.' His name is Jesse Billauer. He made a decision at the Breakthrough Experience that nothing was going to stop him from surfing again, nothing. He is really, in the room was absolutely applauding him. The before and after in that weekend was so astonishing that it was tear jerking. Well, about 17 years ago, 16 half years ago, I had the opportunity to get, I was living on the Gold Coast of Australia. I had many homes in New York and different places. But I had one in the Gold Coast of Australia in Aria, lived in the penthouse of Aria. And all of a sudden, I found in my entrance of my penthouse, which you only can get into with my key somebody from downstairs, put it in there like mail, a DVD video of a surfing movie, called Stepping Into Liquid. And when I pulled that up and put that in there, there was Jesse Billauer, surfing. He found a way of using his head muscles, and designing a special vehicle, a transport system, a surfboard. He had to have somebody take them out into the water and push him. But once he got on a wave his head movements were able to ride and he was riding like 12 foot waves, which is 20 foot face waves. He was doing that. And he was an inspiration. He became friends with Superman who had quadriplegia and they became friends and he created a foundation to do something but he taught people how to go surfing as a quadriplegic. So when the wise big enough to house take care of themselves, you've proven that in your book. What little I've done in my life compared to some of these kind of stories is just astonishing what I see sometimes people do. I mean, mind blowing stuff that people, that determination to overcome that are absolute inspirations. Inspiration is a byproduct of pursuing something that's deeply inspiring and deeply meaningful, through a challenge that people believe is not possible. That's inspiration. Lisa: That's how we grow as a human race. We have these amazing people that do incredible things. And these stories, I mean, these are stories that aren't even out there in the world, in a huge way. There are hundreds of these stories and thousands of these stories and miraculous stories. These are the things that we should be talking about. Because why are we not studying the outliers? Why are we not? When I look at my book, or my story, which I share publicly and not a single doctor that had anything to do with my mum ever asked me, 'Well, how did you do it?' Nobody is interested in why she has not taken the normal path as long gone. Nobody has asked me what did you do? People do. My audience want to know why. The people that follow me, etc. But nobody that was involved in that case. And I see that over and over again.  Dr John: It's forcing him to face their own, you might say, belief systems about what they've been taught. There's an educated awareness by the herd and then there's an innate yearning by the master. The master transcends the herd, if you will. You can be a sheep or a shepherd. The shepherd is the one that goes out and does things that the sheep are not willing to do. But then once they do it, they'll rally around it. They are there watching you to be the hero instead of becoming the hero. Lisa: Wow. And why is it in the medical fraternity that there seems to be a very big herd mentality, like no one is scared to step outside of their norms, and they get slammed. I see this in academia and in science as well, where people who have brilliant ideas and hypotheses and studies and so on, they just get slammed because it's outside of the current paradigm.  Dr John: William James, one of the founders of modern psychology, said 'To be great…' And Emerson followed in suit, 'To be greatest, to be misunderstood.’ William James basically said that the majority of people fear rejection from the multitudes because that was survival. People that are into survival follow the multitude. People that are in thrival create a new paradigm. At first they're going to be ridiculed. They're going to be violently opposed to Schopenhauer and Gandhi said, but eventually becomes self-evident. And you're either following a culture or building one. The people that do that build a new culture. They build a new culture of idea. Emerson said in his essays on circles, 'We rise up and we create a new circle of possibility. And then that becomes the new norm until somebody comes up and breaks through that concentric sphere with another circle.' It's like the four minute mile. I had a gentleman on my program the other day who is striving to be the fastest runner in the world. He's got bronze and silver medals, but he hadn't got the fastest running. And he's not stopping. He's working sometimes eight to 13 hours a day on this project. I believe that the way he's so determined to do it, and how he works on it, and he doesn't need a coach telling him what to do. He just does it. He's inspired to do it. He'll be the fastest runner, he won't stop till he's the fastest runner in the world. And that’s determination, that to be great at that one thing, find that one thing that you really target like a magnifying glass, on that you become the greatest at that thing.  Mine was human development, human behaviour. I want to have the broadest and greatest width of information about that. That's my one thing. But each individual has something that they can excel in, if they just define it, and give themselves permission at it, and say, thank you but no thank you to the opinions. The opinions are the cheapest commodities on Earth that would circulate the most as a use value. There’s ton of those. But those opinions aren’t what matter. It's not you comparing yourself to other people, it's you comparing your daily actions to what's deeply meaningful to you, and the highest priority actions daily, that’s what it is. Lisa: How do you, this is a problem that I face, get to a certain level of success and achievement, and then you start getting lots of offers and opportunities and so on, and you start to lose the focus. You get distracted from the things that are happening in this day and age where the internet and everything that ends up like I get the shiny object syndrome. And say, 'Oh, this is an extremely interesting area of study, and I should go down that path. And then I go down that path, and then I go down that path.' It is adding to the whole picture of a general education. as someone who studied as much as you have, you've obviously encompassed all of these areas. But I think what I'm asking is, how do you find out what your highest priority is? And how do you get a team around you, so that you're not limited? I think there's a lot of business people that are listening to this, me included in this, who has struggling to get past a certain ceiling because the area of genius is one thing that they love and excelling at, and you'd like to spend all of your time doing that. But you're stuck in the groundhog day of admin and technology in the stuff that you hate. And not busting through because financially, you can't delegate to people. You also got to find people that are a good fit for you who can do the jobs, and then also have the finances to be able to break through to that near next level. Can you talk to that about? Dr John: Yes, absolutely. When I was 27 years old, I was just starting my practice. I was doing a little of everything, anything and everything, just to get the thing cranking. I had one assistant that I hired. But I realised I was doing way too many trivial things. And that'll burn you out after a while if you're doing stuff that's not really what your specialty is. I went to the bookstore and I got a book by Alec McKinsey called The Time Trap. I read this book. As I read it, I underlined it and extracted notes like I do. I decided to put together a little sheet for it. I'll share that because it was a goldmine. I made a list of every single thing that I do in a day, over a three month period, because each day I had sometimes different things to do. But I wrote down everything I might be doing in those three months in a day. I just wrote them all down. And I don't mean broad generalities like marketing or this type of thing or radiographs or whatever. I mean, the actual actions. The actual moment by moment actions I do in those categories. I made a list of those and it was a big list. And I looked at it. Then right next that list, every single thing I did from the time I woke up to the time I went to bed, everything —  home, personal, professional. I wanted to know what my day looked. I want to be an honest, objective view of what am I actually doing with my day. Because if I want to create my life the way I want, I've got to take a look at what I'm actually doing because if I'm not doing things that give me the results, no wonder I'm not getting there.  I made that list, and right next to it, in column number two of six columns is how much does it produce per hour. Which is a measure of actually meeting somebody's need as a service and people willing to pay. How much is that produced per hour? And that was humbling because there are whole lot of stuff that I will do without pay. I was minoring in majors and majoring in minors. I was doing all kinds of stuff that was just cost, no return. I stopped and I looked at that, and that was humbling, and frustrating, and a bunch of stuff went through my mind. I mean, I just, but I had to be honest to myself, what does it actually produce? I extrapolate. If I spent two hours on it, what is it per hour? Cut it in half. If I spent 30 minutes, I’d double the number to get an idea what it is per hour. There's a lot of stuff that was not making anything and there was a few things that were making a lot.  The third column I wrote down, how much meaning does it have? How much is it that makes me inspired to get up and do it? I can't wait to do what people can't wait to get. Those are the things I want to target. So I looked at it on a one to ten scale, how much meaning it was. I made a list on a one to ten scale of every one of those items, how inspired am I to do that? And there's a lot of stuff on there that was not inspiring, that I didn't want to do. I thought, 'Hell. I went to ten years of college for this?' I made this list and I put this one to ten thing. And then I prioritised the tens down to the ones. I prioritise productivity down from the ones that made thousands of dollars an hour to nothing an hour. I just prioritise them. And then I looked. There were some that were overlapped, where the thing that was most meaningful and inspiring match where it’s most productive. I prioritise that based on the two together. And that was really eye opening. Then I went to the next one because I realised that if I don't delegate, I'm trapped. Then I put what does it cost? Every cost. Not just salary, but training costs, no hiring costs, parking costs, insurance costs, everything. What is the cost of somebody excelling at doing what it is I'm doing at a greater job than me? What would it cost? On every one of those items? The best I could do? I had to just guess on something, but I definitely did the best I could.  And then I prioritise that based on spread, how much it produced versus how much it cost. Then I put another column. How much time am I actually spending on average? The final column, I wrote down, what are my final priorities with all these variables? I did a very thorough prioritisation system there. I sliced those into ten layers. I put a job description, I put a job description on that bottom layer, and hired somebody to do that but bottom layer. It took me three people to get the right person because I had to learn about hiring. I didn't know how about, hiring. I finally got the first person there, and that was free. That allowed me to go up a notch. And then I hired the next layer. What I did is it allowed me to go and put more time into the thing to produce the most, which was actually sharing a message of what I was doing publicly, with speaking. Public speaking was my door opener. I just kept knocking out layers.In the next 18 months, my business tenfold in increase in income and business. I had 12 staff members and five doctors working for me in a 5000 square foot office from under 1000 square foot original office in 18 months. Because I said goodbye to anything that weighed me down. Anytime you do something that's lower on your values, and anytime something hone your value value yourself and the world values you when you value. It's waiting for you just to get authentic and live by the highest values, which is your ideological identity. The thing you really revolve around you. Mine was teaching, so I call myself a teacher, right? So whatever that highest value is, if you prioritise your day and fill your day with high priority actions that inspire you, it doesn't fill up with low party distractions that don't, because it's now you're allowing yourself to be authentic. And it doesn't cost to properly delegate if you get the right people, and you go on and do what produces more per hour, it doesn't cost it makes sense. Lisa: That's the hard part, isn't it? As is growing. Dr John: You do your responsibilities. Go do the thing that knocks down the doors and goes and does the deals and then go and let them do all the crazy work. Like when I was 27, that's the last time I ever wrote a check or did payroll or looked at bills. I never looked at that again. Because that's a $20 an hour job and I could make way more speaking and doing my doctrine. So I thought, 'I'm not doing anything that's going to devalue me ever again in my life.' I've never gone back. 38 years, I've never gone back. Lisa: So systematise. This is a thing here, where I have a bit of a problem, a bit of a chaos, right? Dr John: I'm an ignoramus when it comes to anything other than research, write, travel, and teach. I'm useless. I'm not. I do jokes and say when I'm having I want to make love with my girlfriend. I tell her. I put my arms around I said, 'If I was to organise and have Hugh Jackman or Brad Pitt take care of lovemaking for you on my behalf and things like that, would you still love me?' One time if she said, 'No, I will still love you more.' I'm joking. That’s a joke. But the point is that if you're not delegating lower priority things, you're trapped. Lisa: And this is the dilemma, I think, of small businesses is giving that mix right and not taking on people before you can go to that next level. Dr John: But you go. You go to the next level by taking them on if it's done properly. Lisa: If it's done properly, because I've- Dr John: You want to make sure. That's why I have a value determination process on my website to determine the values of people I hire because if they're not inspired to do what I need to delegate, that's not the right person.You gotta have the right people on the bus, this column says. I have to be clear about what I can produce if I go and do these other things. And me speaking it, and doing the doctoring on the highest priority patients was way more productive financially than me doing those other things. So once I got on to that, I put somebody in place just to book speeches, and just to make sure that I was scheduled and filled my day with schedules with patients, it was a updated day and night. I've never gone back to that. I only research, write, travel, teach. That's it. Lisa: That's my dream. I'm gonna get there. Dr John: I don't do it. What's interesting is I became financially independent doing that because of that. I learned that if I don't value myself, and I don't pay myself, other people aren't going to pay me. If they're waiting for you to value you add when you value you, the world values you. You pay yourself first, other people pay you first. It's a reflection, economically, there. And that's what allowed me to do it. Because financial independence isn't for debauchery and for the fun life, in my opinion. It's for making sure that you get to do what you love because you love it not because you have to do it. Lisa: And having an impact on the world. But if you're stuck doing the admin and the technical, logical stuff, and the crap that goes along with the business. You're not impacting the world like you want to be impacting. Dr John: Weel, the individual that does the administration is impacting the world through the ripple effect by giving you the freedom to do it. Lisa: Exactly. Dr John: If that's what they love doing. That’s not what I love doing. But there are people that love administration, they love that stuff and love behind the scenes, I love doing that. Finding those people. That's the key. Lisa: Finding those people. I's given me a bit of encouragement because I've been in that sort of groundhog days I had to get through the ceiling and get to the next level of reach. Dr John: I finally realised that the cost of hiring somebody is insignificant compared to the freedom that it provides if you do your priority. Lisa: If you get your stuff right, and know what you… Dr John: Because the energy, your energy goes up the second you're doing what you love doing. And that draws business to you. Lisa: Absolutely. I mean, like doing what we're doing. Now, this is my happy place.  Dr John: We’re both in our element. This is why we're probably going to slow down. The point is, when you're doing something you love to do, when you're on fire, with kind of an enthusiasm, people come around to watch you burn. They want to see you on fire.  Lisa: I mean, they do, they do. And I've seen that in times in my life where I've been preparing for a big race or something, and I need sponsors. I just go out there.  At the start, I didn't know how to do a sponsored proposal, I didn't know how to do any of that fancy stuff. I just went out there and told the story. And by sharing the story, people were like, 'I want to get on board with this. That's exciting.' People would come on in and and when you don't know, one of the things that I've found in life is the less you know, sometimes the more audacious you are. When you actually h

Becoming a Leader With Tim Stokes G'day everyone, I'm sure we've all been in a spot that we've thought about how do we become a leader, are we already a leader, what is a leader anyway? And ultimately in being a leader, is that going to be something that's going to leverage your ability to achieve business freedom? Today, we've got Tim Stokes here, and he's going to be talking about exactly that. How do you achieve business freedom and how do you make sure that you are a leader, and you are a developing leader, and you are continuing your skills, etc. He's from a company named Profit Transformations. Tell me, Tim, in your opinion, what is a leader?   The Qualities of a Leader Tim: I've got a great answer to that one. You're a leader when someone is following you because if there's no one following you, then you're just a dictator going for a walk on your own. That's the simple definition for it. It's the effect that you have on other people. If you're inspiring people to follow your words willingly, that's what I would call a leader. If people are regretfully, resentfully, slowly or not very effectively following your words, then that's the sign that the leadership skills could be improved. I think it's as simple as that. It's the difference you're making to other people. I believe leadership is one word: servitude. You're there to serve...serve your followers. It's about redundancy. You're aiming to make yourself redundant through the people that are following you, not rule them, if you like, not dictate to them, but empower them to be like you, to give power to them, to increase their confidence, and to be able to do what it is that you are doing yourself.  Ultimately, anyone can be a leader, but it's also very field specific. You could be a leader at home, but not necessarily be a leader at work. Do you think that leadership can be taught or is it something that you are or you're not? We’re All Leaders Tim: I think we're all leaders. We just probably don't recognise that we are because we all influence other people. As a parent, you're a leader because your children are watching you, scrutinising everything that you do, copying you, mirroring you, following you, saying what you say, doing what you do and copying your body language. I remember watching my daughter look at me when she was about three and she looked at me, saw it on, and then she adjusted her posture and I said, don't do that. She just copied my posture from just watching me without saying a word, and I watched her do it and then I watched her adjust and I was like, 'Oh, don't do that. Have your own, not mine.' We're always being watched. Employees are always watching their bosses. If the bosses aren't punctual, the employees think, 'Oh, punctuality doesn't really matter here. That's great. I don't need to be that punctual.' So we're leading whether we like it or not. I think everything is co-leadership. Sometimes other people lead, sometimes you lead. We probably have a prioritised role of leadership in business, but definitely, leaders are always leaders. I believe selling is leadership because you're leading people from doubt and potentially resistance or a bit of fear into making a confident decision. So when people are in doubt, they need leadership. So selling is leadership to take people from 'I'm not sure what I need to buy,' 'I'm not sure of the price, so I don't have my decision-making criteria,' 'I'm a bit ignorant of what I'm buying. Someone guide me to making a confident decision and buying.' That is a leadership opportunity. Every sales phone call, every sales opportunity is leadership. That's exactly what it is, so I think it's everywhere. Everywhere in business is leadership. At home, you're in leadership mode. Sometimes I say the wife wears the pants, but that's not true all the time. It'd be alternating leadership because that tends to be how relationships work. We call it co-leadership. I completely agree with everything you've just said. I think it's important to make sure that you are walking your best step forward for everyone else to follow suit. With punctuality, as you said, it is important making sure that you are punctual at work. With situations like remote workforces and even workforces that haven't ever met in person, I guess this is coming more and more common, you're very disciplined, very passionate, and you've got all those traits and the business is going absolutely gangbusters. Maybe you're a solo entrepreneur and you're doing that and you decide I'm going to outsource some of these roles and grow a bit bigger. How do you make sure that some of the good traits that you have when you're not necessarily in the office and they're not seeing everything that you're doing and it's not being completely obvious to them because you might only be seen for a couple of hours in a Zoom meeting a week or something like that. Support Your Employees Tim: I believe that the emotions that you share with your employees is what they pass on to their customers. It's about being there for them. It's about supporting them. It's about constantly being in touch to show that you care about them and care about the work they're doing. It's recognising the work they're doing, appreciating the work they're doing. They actually work for you. So even though they might not be in eyesight, they still work for you. I have clients, and their business has grown and grown and they're in other states and have employees in other states and even other countries. I've got a client who took his business into four countries, and it's just a regular contact. Those clients are always talking to their people wherever they are, touching base with them, seeing how they're going, making sure they're happy, making sure their needs are met, etc. It's not assuming that they are okay on their own. It's actually finding out all the time. 'How's it going? How did you go with the job? Do you need any help? Yeah. Great. Could you do this? Fantastic. Great. Sounds like it went great.' So it's just those regular conversations that I think are crucial. In having those regular conversations, how do you make sure that you come across as someone who's appreciative and not necessarily someone that's micromanaging? Tim: That's really getting the context of what they went through, not just the content. When you start saying, 'Did you do this? Did you do this? Did you make sure you did this?' That's micromanaging. I love introducing numbers into businesses, the eight ingredients that achieve business freedom for business owners. One of them is KPIs and having numbers for the person to see themselves that they're doing a great job because the numbers don't lie. The numbers help people to see that they're doing a great job. The regular communication is great, but when you back it up with the numbers and say, 'Hey, you did an excellent job. You're on that job for two hours. I estimated it to be two and a half. Well done. That's excellent.' And the number backslap. And I'll find that over time that the numbers can fulfil a person with a couple of other ingredients. Then that way, when an employee's fulfilled, they need far less supervision. But it's getting them to that stage is what takes a lot of work.  Quit Micromanaging and Being a Business Dictator You said earlier that everyone's a leader in some way, shape or form. But I'm sure that there is people that we've all worked for or worked with and we've seen that they're not people that would like to follow. You've come across someone that isn't necessarily willing to step away from the dictatorship role. Is that still going to be a successful business or is it just not as successful? I'm sure there's been some famous dictators in that time that have done well. Tim: Well, Steve Jobs is a bit of a dictator, for example. He's controlling everything in a way because no one in any department knew what they were working on until the launch of the product. And then he went, 'Oh, is that what I was making?' I mean, when it all comes together, they finally figure out what they're making, but it's like everyone's sort of locked in a little area. Don't talk to anyone in any other department. It's all secret stuff. That's how that business was run, but it became the most successful company in the world, whereas Google is the opposite. It's like I have half a day off with pay. Just mingle here. Here is a community area. Everyone go and play pool and play video games and everyone talks to everyone from every department all the time. Yeah, you can be very successful if you're a dictator. I've had clients that it's like, why did my staff keep leaving? I can't stand staff leaving. I've got to build in some penalties and get better contracts. I'm like, 'Well, maybe you need to improve your leadership skills.' So I'm subtly trying to say, 'Well, they're leaving because of you and how you treat them.' But he's looking for tighter contracts because he's too much of a dictator, not enough of a leader. Still had a successful business, very successful business. However, if he wasn't there, they used to complain. If he's not cracking the whip, then they're not going to do it. So, yes, businesses can definitely be successful without great leadership. However, I'm about the word optimising and efficiency and taking businesses to an extremely high level. That's a very important ingredient. We're not born leaders. Some people are, but the rest of us are going to figure it out by trial and error of what leadership is by the results that we have and the effect that we have on people. We go 'Oh, okay, let's not say that next time.' You slowly improve your leadership skills from the experience. But we can take a proactive approach to learning this thing called leadership. It's like most people in sales don't know they're in a leadership role. Give them the good news and say, 'You understand you're in the leadership role.' 'What's leadership got to do with sales?' They're in doubt and they need to go from doubt to confidence. There's a leadership opportunity, the leadership journey, to facilitate and take them from their doubt to the confidence of saying to you, 'Oh, this is exactly what I want.' Getting people to that state of mind where they're so confident that they're asking to buy from you is good sales, and it's actually good leadership. Stopping Your Bad Business Owner Habits As a generalisation, if there's a problem in your business and it seems to be consistently happening, chances are it's the business owner that's causing that problem. If you find that people are leaving or that people aren't answering the phone or aren't doing things in a suitable amount of time, even if it comes down to people having more sick leave than usual, it can be something that they might not even consciously be doing. But that does boil down to something that needs to be corrected. The ship needs to be steered in the best direction or a better direction to what it's currently going. If that is something that you're wanting to do, this is all about leveraging and achieving business freedom. If you're trying to teach your staff how to be minions of yourself, mini-mes, so to speak, what is the best way to step away from a bad habit and towards something that's going to be closer to leadership can be a gift or a developed skill. What's the best way to make sure that you identify and then correct? Tim: I think a really good thing to do as a touchstone before is understand that it's about context. It's not about content. As a leader, you want to create the context. And it's like saying there's a soccer field, there's boundaries, here are some rules. Don't play the game. It's defining the rules and the parameters with which to play the game or how an employee can occupy the role in the business by knowing the parameters and knowing what the expectations are, which is sort of KPI can kick in. 'Here's a performance guide. Hit this number and you're doing a great job.' Run Your Business By The Numbers It's about getting from Point A to Point B. The road that you follow is not critical, but it's getting to a Point B. Your Point A gets you to Point B, and leadership is about defining Point B so that the person can figure out their way of getting there by using the parameters which you set and that's where policy is. The policy is like a rule or guideline that an employee follows. A simple one is answer the phone two and a half rings. That's a policy. So it's a parameter with which to perform well in your role. So when a business owner gives the clear parameters, which are systems, when you digitise the roll with the parameters and the policies, the procedures are not as important. It's clarifying what the outcome looks like because in the end, that's all that really matters. I was fortunate in about 1999 to look at the business reports that Rupert Murdoch, the billionaire, wanted from his newspaper every week, sent to him by fax by his general manager. And the guy, the general manager, was showing me this. We got on really well. He said, 'Hey, come and check out the office.' He's got like 50 staff in there. And he said, 'This is all the salespeople over here, the production people over here, all the journalists that are doing all the writing, and then we have the finance people, admin people, etc. These are the reports I have to fax Rupert Murdoch every single week or I don't have a job.' I started to realise that billionaires run their businesses remotely by numbers, straight numbers. He said there are 23 offices faxing the same reports, so 23 separate businesses every Monday seeing the same reports. And he said we don't talk too much because the numbers tell the story. And that insight was great for me to understand that when you set the parameters up, which is a lot of work, and then you introduce the KPIs that show the outcome that they're aiming to hit from that role, and you have the systems in place for them to follow as guidelines, you don't need to micromanage. That's when you achieve business freedom, where you don't have to work in your business, because if you set it up correctly or at a very high level, then that's the outcome that you can achieve. Well, I can say that I wish I knew you were around when I started business because back in 2007, when Dorks Delivered was in its infancy and I started off as the cowboy who just went around doing everything that he read online once or had the trial and error and worked out that was the best way to do it. And then I went down a path and hand over fist loads of coin, but went to a spot where I thought, 'Okay, this is fantastic. I got to bring someone else on board. Brought David on at the time. He was going really, really well. He was working 80 hours, I was working 80 hours. We're both going gangbusters, loving it. The family wasn't as keen on it, but everyone else says you got to balance these things until they had a stroke and end up in hospital. And then I can't do 160 hours in a week. So I went, 'Okay, what can I do here to make sure this doesn't happen again.' And removing onboarding times and things like that and started systematising and putting in processes, practices, operating procedures, KPIs, I got to get our business running to a spot where I could step away. His heart attack happened in 2012. It took me until 2016 to be pretty confident in my systems. It was 2018 I was able to step away for 3 months and not do anything in the business and I thought, 'Okay, sweet.' but it took time.  Tim: Oh yeah. It takes a lot of work. I can shortcut that for a lot of businesses but you know what it's like. I was talking to a client yesterday about that exact thing and we were just guesstimating that it's probably at least 500 hours' work on your business that you got to do to get to that level. It's a lot of extra work, and if you can shortcut it, excellent.  The way I did it I looked at the different things that I do in the business, and I just started writing a list of absolutely everything. I got about 500 different things on a list, and then I was categorising them so you could see was it an accounting role, was it an administration role, was it a technical role, was it on the tools? Where was my time going? That was eye-opening. I saw where my time was going and then speeding up all the different processes, and I love it. You've got to be passionate about it to be able to move it away from a job into an investment. Remove Repetition   Tim: Absolutely. I found that one of the reasons business owners go into business is they just want a change from doing the same stuff all the time as an employee. I think it's a mixture of ingredients. One of the most rewarding roles that you can have in a business is being in a non-repetitious space. You set your business up so that you're not dealing with the same customers, which is the production, you're not doing with sales, which is the same stuff. Same problem, same sort of stuff. And you move into that non-repetitious stage and that's where you can occupy different roles. If you're the business development manager for your own business, that could mean a few things. You could be the product innovator, researching to find new products to introduce into your business that can sell them as line extensions, or you could be going in a state meeting people in your same industry that you're not competing with having lunches and dinners with them and sharing ideas and swapping ideas. You can travel around tax deductible and have this great lifestyle and choose when you turn up for work and when you're travelling and having fun and staying home, researching kind of thing. And that's I think a great role to strive for as a business owner, to be in a creative, non-repetitious space, then life's just fun. It's just enjoyable.  Well, the terrible thing is while most people are being rewarded by being paid per hour, most people aren't looking at faster, more effective ways to do things. That is something that I'm really happy that we step away and help other businesses step away from that and make sure that they and their staff are doing things that are speeding up their processes. We don't charge our customers per hour for the work that we do unless we absolutely have to. We normally try and scope it all out and then have a set rate that we're charging them to achieve certain key objectives, and if we don't, then we don't get that money. It's very important that we set up ourselves like that, and I think other businesses should be doing the same thing. That ultimately has everyone strive towards the same common good. You don't want to have people in monotonous, repetitious work for lots more reasons than just it's boring. If they're doing something that's repetitious, it's something that we'll be able to automate. If it's not us doing it, it'll be someone else doing it. If no one's doing it for them, then it'll be their competitors that are doing it and then they'll be out of business. Any job that is repetitious can be automated. Tim: Yeah, that time's coming. We'll definitely move in that direction.  Always be learning, and that's the great thing with the BDM role. You're always learning new things about the industry, new ways to talk to people, new ways to become a better version of you and ultimately I guess become a better leader in doing that sort of research. If you had to pick just three effective leadership qualities, what would you say is the three main things that people should make sure they're doing? Consider Weekly Meetings Tim: I think it's really good to set up a weekly team meeting in businesses. When you set up a weekly team meeting, then you get the collective but you also get the individual at the same time. That's an example of something to be doing, is listening to a collective and instructing a collective instead of just instructing people one on one or communicating with people one on one. I think that is a huge ingredient that moves people towards that business freedom stage. And people like getting together and hearing from other people's point of view. That's a method of redundancy. I found that clients that I've set up the weekly team meetings with and then introduce numbers to employees use the word 'love' like say, 'I love working here since these meetings have happened and we're talking about numbers and all that.' We might think it's a bit scary to do all that sort of stuff initially, and sometimes there is a little bit of resistance from the business owners to do it as well as when trying to get the employees to do it. It takes a few months, but about Month 3, 4 or 5, often employees use the word 'love.' I think that's about as good as it gets kind of thing. 'I love working here. I want to work here until I retire. It's the best job we've ever had.' It's not changing the type of work they do, but just the environment that you create, the culture that you create from that weekly team meeting, getting together. And then I work for the team that doesn't work for you, and that makes a huge difference. They don't care if you're there or not because if a person is happy and fulfilled, they don't care what you're doing. If your employees are not happy and you go, 'I'm taking two months off.' They go, 'Why am I still working here?' They have a grudge about it. If you make your employees happy and fulfilled in their roles, they don't care what you do. You can do whatever you like. You can turn up for work or not, and they really don't care because they're not working for you. They're working because they're a significant part of the team. I think a leader can set that up and then create that redundancy, which I think is an essential ingredient of leadership: to figure out how to make yourself redundant in the role.  You've got to make sure you're redundant. We do our best to have a weekly team meeting. I have spoken to other people that have daily huddles to talk, and the staff said that they would love a weekly meeting, but it just becomes too much having daily meetings. Can you overdo it? Tim: Absolutely. Weekly is a magical timeframe. I've had hundreds of businesses that I've introduced team meetings to. Those that strive fortnightly don't make much progress. Those that meet monthly don't make any progress, but the ones that do it more often than weekly doesn't achieve a lot. A week is a magical timeframe. That's what I've found. It's a different day name for every week. And it's just a really good time trying to get your head around so you can say, 'Okay, last Tuesday, remember when this happened.' So they have a good memory for the events of those five days in that week kind of thing. So a week is just a great timeframe. You don't need to be more often because you're trying to review how you went for the week. Reviewing how you went for the day is not going to motivate you, but reviewing how you went for a week, it's a significant amount of effort to review how you went from that week's effort. It averages out some of the bumps as well. You have a great day one day, not so good next day, average day the next day. When you look at the average of the week, 'That's good. I averaged well.' The Meaning of Business Freedom What does business freedom mean to you or what should that mean to everyone else?  Tim: I think business freedom is a state of mind. It can be a physical thing. I like saying to business owners: would you like to have a business where you can go holidaying wherever you like? I got a client who goes surfing in Indonesia in a remote place for two months, sometimes three. That's business for you. That's great. As you said, it's different things for different people. But I think most people, as you said, 19 out of 20 would relate to that: wanting to be able to spend time on the things that they care about, be it surfing, painting, hanging out with snotty kids or whatever else that you're doing. Tim: It's the choices to do what you want, when you want, with whoever you want, wherever you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Final Word That sounds awesome. I'd love to go surfing for that length of time. I think I'd finally learn how to stand on the board properly. One last question before we head off. What is your favourite book on business and leadership and why?  Tim: The E-Myth Revisited  I love it. Michael Gerber. He's great. Tim: Yeah, I discovered that when I've been in business for seven years, and then I read the book. I was actually really absolutely shocked and stunned that there's this subject called business and it has got nothing to do with an industry. And that's what the realisation was. Because I was like the typical person. I've got to be really good at my job. I was in a trade service business. I was a fantastic climber, great at destroying trees and turning them into mulch. However, I didn't know how to run a business, so that's seven years of struggle and then I realised there's this thing called business. You can learn about this topic. Then I did the Michael Gerber two-day workshop and that was just life-changing. It changed my whole philosophy, everything about business, because he'd say, why do you work? That's what your business is meant to do. Business works hard so you don't have to. I think that's the best book. It should be compulsory for business owners to read that book when they start a business.   I read it in 2007 and loved it. I've since read it again, and just on 'McDonaldising' your business is a big part of that. I think we'll leave it there unless there's anything else you'd like to add for our listeners? I know that there is one thing that I wanted to go through with you, particularly understand that if you are struggling in business, you have some options for people to have a bit of a review and you've got a book that you have on offer at the moment, is that right?   Tim: Yeah, I have a book called Eight Ways to Improve Your Business in Five Days. It's got eight strategies to implement to improve your business in eight different areas like employees, profitability, cash flow, marketing, etc. It gives you eight strategies to implement. They don't cost anything to implement them, but all of them will make a difference to your business. That's my challenge for business owners. If you're willing to put eight new strategies in your business, I challenge you to make a difference in your business within a week.   It sounds like something no one can lose with. That sounds awesome. If anyone else out there has any questions for Tim, we'll have him part of our Facebook group so you can jump on there, ask any questions that you have for him. Actually, what is the best website to go to? That's going to be easy to say.   Tim: Just go to https://www.profittrans4mations.com.au/    Thank you for your time, and everyone out there, stay good.    

This week on 5.6.7.EIGHT, Aleksandra interviews Susan McGreevy-Nichols, Executive Director at the National Dance Education Organization (NDEO). Prior to her current role, she taught part-time at Loyola Marymount University and was a national consultant on Arts Education. Also, as a three-decades-long teacher at Roger Williams Middle School in Providence, Rhode Island, Susan founded and developed that institution’s nationally renowned middle school dance program. On top of all of this, she is an author who has written and published five books.   As an arts educator, Susan realizes the value of harnessing the creating process, both inside and outside of the arts. In fact, during her run as an educator, Susan has developed a cutting-edge reading comprehension strategy that uses text as inspiration for original choreography, created by children. On the podcast, Susan speaks to how the creative process drives everything she does — her work, her books, her curriculum, her life — and how the arts world uses the creative process to train thinkers, even more so than dancers or artists.   Moving Quotes:   "I don't focus well. I multitask. But, because of that, it's made me very creative. That's why I feel that I've become a very creative problem solver. I attack everything thinking, 'Okay, I'm going to make this work.' And it all goes back to the creative process."   "The cognitive processes involved in creating dance really help you be a better learner, a better thinker — a thinking dancer... The work I do focuses on creating thinkers and making dance for everybody."   "As a dance studio owner, you can never replace the face-to-face connection with your students — of being a part of this wonderful community and culture that has been set up. That will never be replaced by Zoom."   "Dance education is very small compared to the other art forms. We really need to stick together."   "As dance teachers, make sure you collaborate with others. Make sure you network with others... It's important that you embrace the fact that all sectors need each other. You can learn so much from so many other people."   "Dancers should always know how to be good teachers."   "It doesn't matter what's going on in the world. There's always a silver lining; there's always a way to push back on things and make them work."   Bullet Points (w/ timestamps) - Highlighting key topics discussed:   3:03: Susan describes all of the activities conducted by her organization, the National Dance Education Organization (NDEO).   5:39: Susan explains how the NDEO unites dance educators across all forms of dance and how the NDEO is different from other dance organizations.   8:50: Susan discusses her observations on how dance improves so many others’ lives and how the creative process is a catalyst for joy in dance.   10:15: McGreevy-Nichols describes her work as a consultant and generally speaks to the importance of incorporating the creative process into learning.   13:00: McGreevy-Nichols speaks to her reading comprehension strategy, which combines the fundamentals of reading with choreographic movement.   15:47: Susan discusses observed patterns on modern dance but explains why virtual technology will never replace face-to-face interaction.   19:55: Susan shares some advice for anyone looking to have a career in dance, either on or off the stage.   24:29: Susan discusses her five published books and speaks to her work teaching inner city children how to dance, which ultimately was the catalyst for her first book.   30:53: McGreevy-Nichols looks towards the future for the NDEO, hoping to foster a more inclusive environment moving ahead.   31:03: Susan shares some last words of encouragement and advice for dance teachers across the world.   Bullet List of Resources –  Susan McGreevy-Nichols LinkedIn On Amazon.com National Dance Education Organization Company Website Facebook Instagram Twitter LinkedIn

When we think of histamine issues, most of us think of the usual symptoms (e.g. runny nose, congestion, itchy eyes). But did you know that high histamine can also cause behavioral issues and skin rashes, particularly in children? My guest today is Dr. Sheila Kilbane. She is a board-certified pediatrician who trained with Andrew Weil, MD in integrative medicine. She works with families to find the root cause of illness and uses natural and nutritional therapies whenever possible. Her mission is to transform pediatric healthcare globally in order to get 1 million kids off of meds they may not need. Dr. Kilbane sees patients at her clinic in Charlotte, NC and helps people all over the world through her online education courses. She is the author of Amazon bestseller Healthy Kids, Happy Moms: A Step-by-Step Guide to Improving Many Common Childhood Illnesses. Join us as we talk about histamine issues in children, and different ways to safely manage it. Have you dealt with histamine issues in children before? Tell me about it in the comments! In this episode: What is histamine? Different ways histamine issues show up in children Histamine overload triggers in kids Dr. Kilbane's approach to assessing children Considerations for long-term use of Benadryl Thoughts on blood panels for kids Quotes “We always think of histamines as causing runny nose, congestion. It's an inflammatory compound in the body that can be triggered by allergies. Environmental allergies, whether it's pollen or dust mites, that sort of thing, but histamines, they can create a wide variety of symptoms.” [1:18] “We need a wide variety of foods, we get different nutrients from different foods. I see a lot of families who have taken so many foods out, but their kids are still struggling. Those are the cases where we go, 'Okay, could this be an issue of excess histamine, and let's figure out other triggers'.” [9:40] Links Find Dr. Kilbane online Dr. Kilbane's online course FREE download: 10 Tips to Use Food as Your Pharmacy Get Dr. Kilbane's 5 Foundational Supplements FREE here Follow Dr. Kilbane on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram | YouTube Healthy Skin Show episode 4 with Dr. Richard Aron about his groundbreaking approach to treating atopic eczema Transformation Enzymes Probiotics Healthy Skin Show ep. 050: How To Help Kids With Eczema w/ Dr. Sheila Kilbane Healthy Kids, Happy Moms: A Step-by-Step Guide to Improving Many Common Childhood Illnesses

Word of mouth is still the best marketing tool, even in today’s digital world. And in this time of the ecommerce boom, brands are constantly working to build buzz for their products. Whether that’s through ratings, reviews, social posts, or unique ad campaigns. But there’s one highly coveted strategy that’s been bubbling to the top of the stack, and every ecommerce leader knows it is the way of the future. User generated content. And a company called Yotpo is here to help with that. Yotpo is one of the top platforms that companies such as IKEA, 1-800-FLOWERS, Chubbies and more lean on to help them build communities, generate UGC, and create loyalty programs that yield the kind of engagement most brands only dream of. On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, I asked the co-founder and CEO of Yotpo, Tomer Tagrin to give us an inside look at how Yotpo is generating 5X more engagement and content creation than is typical. Plus, we also dove into the future of loyalty programs and personalization. My one-sentence takeaway: definitely start leaning heavily into loyalty and maybe let off the gas a bit on personalization. Why? Tune in to find out! Main Takeaways:Do What You Know: Success in ecommerce is becoming more about the community you can build to support you. So the question founders are asking themselves — and Yotpo — is how do you build that community? The answer is pretty simple actually, you just have to follow your own interests. A founder starts a company for a reason, and they typically personify the exact target customer their company is going after. So dig into that link and create content and strategies that would resonate with you, the founder.  Long Live Loyalty Programs: Every brand should have a loyalty program, otherwise there are opportunities and dollars being left on the table. The only way to access those opportunities and cash, though, is through a very brand-specific program. There are no one-size-fits-all loyalty programs. Brands need to understand what they want to incentivize for in their loyalty programs, who they want to target, and how they will reward the behavior they are trying to generate through the loyalty program.  Partial Personalization: By deploying personalization tools, you can sometimes open Pandora’s box of never-ending adjustments and adaptations in order to create individualized experiences. At a certain point, the return on that investment starts to diminish. Customers are all different, but they don’t all need to be treated as unicorns. Create segments of customer types, and personalize the experience to those subsets.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Hey everyone, and welcome back to up next in commerce. This is your host, Stephanie Postles, CEO at Mission.org. Joining us today is Tomer Tagrin. The co-founder and CEO of Yotpo. Tomer, welcome.Tomer:Hey, thank you for having me.Stephanie:I'm excited to have you. You might not know this, but a couple of guests who've come on the show actually have mentioned you guys. We had the CEO of Live Tinted come on, and a couple more. They said your company-Tomer:In a good way or in a bad way?Stephanie:In an amazing way. They said it was game changing.Tomer:Thank you, thank you.Stephanie:Yeah. When I saw you coming on, I told our producer Hilary, I'm like, "This is awesome. So serendipitous." But in your words, I'd like to hear what is Yotpo, and why did you start Yotpo?Tomer:Yeah. You want the short version or the long version?Stephanie:Long if it has a lot of little interesting tangents.-Tomer:You got it, you got it. I'll give you maybe the opening gambit about your points, then I'll tell you maybe the story in a more detailed way.Stephanie:Yeah.Tomer:The best way to think about Yotpo if in retail, it was about location, location, location, online, it's about consumer attention. In a world where every brand is an ecommerce brand, right from Miss Stephanie in Tomer t-shirtcompany.com, up to PNG, everyone is fighting over consumer attention. That's what we do. We help ecommerce brand win over consumer attention by consolidating the marketing stack and really enable them to build great experiences for consumers, because that's the only way to win over consumer attention. We actually started as a reviews company, and we started from a very ... 10 years ago from a personal story that we had a friend in my group of friends that each year made fun of us, that we didn't buy him anything for his birthday.Tomer:11 years ago we decided to do something, and he was big on photography back then, so we bought him photography [inaudible] and because I'm the geek, I [inaudible] online and I find him a fancy SLR camera. We bought him that, he was super happy. But what happened is that the teacher, after the second lesson told him that we bought him the crappiest camera we could have bought him. And all of my friends made fun of me. Then I went back and we saw that my decision was based on reviewers name like Stephanie 123, and I don't know anything about it. That is okay. Let's do that. Very, very good, and basically find authenticity of reviews. So, we built our entire technology based on that, and making sure that whoever writes reviews is a real person that actually bought a product.Tomer:If she or he are an expert in the field, we'll also let you know. We really ... wherever to disrupt let's call it the reviews in ecommerce, especially on the SME, it was also a great time. We were much luckier than small. It was a great time to enter ecommerce, or ecommerce marketing. We grew with a lot of the Shopify, the B commerce. We were very focused on the lower end at the beginning, and now we have Ikea and PNG and 1-800-Flowers, but we were for years focused just on the lower end. I think five years ago, we understood that the bigger problem for ecommerce brands is that they're super busy, they're very small and nimble, and they have just too many point solutions to deal with, so we need to consolidate everything because the consumer experience actually flow through each one of them. I'll give you one example.Tomer:I remember one of our customers telling me a few years ago, he said, "Look, Tomer, when someone gives me a one star review, I still ask for a referral, and that's the dumbest thing I can do as a brand." Right? Of course, but they just weren't able to connect those dots together before [inaudible]. We completely re-architecture. We went through a lot of different things to make sure that it's one platform to really help you win over consumer attention. It was something very, very important. That's our mission in life today. Since then, we built two more products, we acquired two more companies, we completely re-architecture the platform itself. We changed the go-to market, we've been through a lot. Now we're in the face of adding a new product every let's say 18 months.Stephanie:Wow. That's a lot of new products, because yeah, I was looking through everything you did. I'm like, okay, you do reviews, you do referral programs, you do smart loyalty programs, and everything seems every time I talk to a commerce brand, I do always think, wow, you guys have so many tools and technologies you have to plug into. How do you keep track of it all? What does the marketing tech stack look for someone when they come to you? What things are they, "Hey, can you help us consolidate all these crazy processes?"Tomer:Yeah. Usually customers don't come with us to consolidate, it happens, but not a lot. We actually build the company that we commonly just ... we can have five different products in the market, use the general reviews, what we call VMS. It's a Visual Marketing Suite, a referral product, a loyalty product, and an SMS marketing product. Walking on two malls, one of them is going to be launched let's say in two quarters, another one in four quarters, and sorry. Basically you start with the ones that you can start with just loyalty, or actually SMS now is our fastest growing part of the business. Then we show you that through the synergies in the product, it actually makes sense for you too ... I'll give you an example. If you launch a loyalty program, the best way to communicate with your most loyal customer is through SMS.Tomer:We make it very easy for you. If you want to send a loyalty campaign for customers that are likely to buy in the next 90 days, and gave you a five star review, and referred a friend, to send them an SMS with a new loyalty offer, we make it very, very easy for you. Where in the other architecture, it literally use [inaudible] taking weeks to orchestrate all of that. For us, you can start with whatever product you want, it doesn't matter for us. That's how we build everything because we don't want to force the customer to consolidate. Once you start seeing the synergies and it makes sense, that's where the exponential value starts. Actually, in our high touch customers, we see now that more than 60% of the customers actually use buying and using two plus product, so they are multi product customers, and that's something super, super important for us. From time to time, customers come to us to consolidate, but not always.Stephanie:Yeah, awesome. Just to give a little context too, tell me about some of the recent news around funding that maybe you guys just went through. How big are you, and who are some of your clients. Name drop some people if you can. So our audience knows you all are legit, you're on the unicorn status. I'll call you that. You might be like, "Don't call me that." I just did.Tomer:I actually have a joke in the fundraising that we did. We just closed a $210 million round at a $1.4 billion valuation, from great investors and definitely on our path for the next stage to become a public company. I always had a slide actually in the fundraising deck that said that despite of the valuation, we are not a unicorn, we are Flamingo. We are building a Flamingo. Why is that? Because Flamingo is a real animal and we are building a real business to provide real value to customers over time. It's a very unique animal.n It's actually part of our culture. It's a joke, but it's actually something very, very ... that we take very seriously.Stephanie:I love that.Tomer:Some of our customers, Ikea, Unilever, 1-800-Flowers, we also have 30,000 paying customers. A lot of the cool brands, the Chubbies, the away, the movement, all of the poster Childs of D to C are as well usually choosing Yotpo, but also some of the largest brands in the world. I think they come to us usually because our products are really ... we like to call it easy to start, easier to scale, and really trying to think about merchant, and really trying not to use buzz words, not to use fancy things, just really helping those brands grow faster in a very direct way. We are 500 people, or a little bit less, and I don't know any other group of people that are so focused on helping brands win over consumer attention. That's literally what we think of every day.Tomer:Also, I think that ecommerce is one of the largest changes of our generation, and we believe that we have a real shot to become one of the most important companies in the history of commerce. I always tell the company telling me that ... I have two young boys, and one of the things that for me I want them to think about Yotpo is they were a huge driver forward for that something that called digitization of retail, or the shift to e-comm, or whatever you want to call it. Very much we are super, super passionate about helping those brands.Stephanie:That's amazing. Congratulations. That's awesome funding-Tomer:Thank you.Stephanie:...awesome investors. You're really cool. I love that Flamingo reference. I want to use that just for myself now.Tomer:We call it be a Flamingo in a flock of pigeons. That's our phrase internally.Stephanie:That's good. It seems like the perfect time right now too, because customer acquisition is getting really expensive. Everything I've heard on the show is that, organic, natural, UGC, that's what's working now. Tell me a bit about how you think about the customer acquisition world, and why organic natural content or reviews, helps more than anything else right now.Tomer:It's a great question. First of all, I'll maybe share a funny story. Let's say six months before COVID started, we actually had a customer advisory board. We meet customers and we ask them questions. One of the phrases I add that stuck with me is that one of our customers said that buying a Facebook ad is more expensive than a fifth Avenue store. Definitely you know Instagram, Facebook, Google are extremely, extremely expensive, and I don't think it's going to slow down. They want to be like a lot of other consumer fronts, at least in the near term horizon. When you add on top of that, Amazon, so the question is how do you win? You win by building a community. You win by giving your customers a great experience.Tomer:Part of that means social proof, part of it means making sure that you are very transparent, part of it means that you need to focus on customer lifetime value, because it's so hard to bring, and you need to make sure they're coming back. Loyalty, I can tell you it's really top of mind. Then for us, we entered loyalty in 2018, we are now the fastest growing loyalty platform for ecommerce brands, and we power some of the most sophisticated loyalty programs out there, and it's just amazing to see that even in the election, there were brands that giving points for customer to show that they voted, and there are customers that hate the point system because it's they lose their brand and they just have a VIP tier experience, which is super awesome. There's so much to do with that, which is fascinating to see how much brands are able to innovate.Tomer:I think we definitely live in a world to your question, I'll circle back that whatever walks, you cannot win just by being great in paid anymore. It doesn't scale. It can scale to a certain number but it won't forever. Now the question, how do you build your brand? You build your brand by your community. That's what we are very, very focused on as a company.Stephanie:What are the ways that you advise your brands to build that community? Especially if you come and you're like, I don't have a community. Where do I even start with that? I would think you need to acquire customers first, but then that's pricey. Then you're not even thinking about retention yet because you don't have anyone to retain. What are the maybe building blocks even get to that next level?Tomer:Yeah. I'll share a story. Are you familiar with Chubbies, the brand?Stephanie:Yeah.Tomer:Chubbies they have a great story on how they started. It started from an email that they used to send. I don't know if you ever saw one of those emails. Super straightforward, so targeted to the buyer persona because they will, the buyer persona. It's a really great group of founders that were just able to provide great content, and their customers actually want to buy Chubbies because they feel that this is the brand for them. You have movement that were very, very early on, very, very good on Instagram ads. I think today it probably means that you need to do everything well, there is not a hack, so you got to at least experiment with paid, you got to experiment with content, with organic. You have to invest, but in general, when you look at mission-driven brands, the founders are usually, they are the buyer persona, or they know the buyer persona very, very well.Tomer:Then it just become easy. Do stuff that are interesting for you. Do stuff that you would like to buy from. I think that's where we see the brands that are growing the fastest at the moment. I think there was also probably a year, a year and a half ago, there was a huge trend in drop shippers that's now actually declining, which is a good thing. I think it's easier for brands now to stand out. I think that the bad news is that you need to do good in multiple fronts, but the good news is there's so much demand at the moment for great brands that you just need to focus on your buyer persona.Stephanie:Yeah, that makes sense. Another interesting thing that I was reading about was how ads that have reviews in them are the highest converting ones. Which makes sense. I even think about, if I see someone's picture with a review on it, an organic picture, I don't want just the product picture, or even if that came on and she'll be five stars, check it out. I would go there all day versus a normal ad.Tomer:It's actually something we built a few years ago, and the hypothesis was, it was also based on our customer feedback that they think that social ads with social proof will work great on social media. That makes sense. Then what we did is we made it super easy and we work with Facebook and Instagram to make it easy to incorporate your user generated content, and then we started to experiment with that. We learned that, the studio photos that you have actually work like walls then real authentic and customers' photos, so, we really build a lot of technology to encourage customers, and how do you get more photos, and then make it just very, very easy for you to use it on your social ads. It works phenomenally well. I think in general, one of the key learnings that we learn as a company that we're established to establish trust between brands and consumers. That's what we founded the company.Tomer:I think that, especially if you're a newer brand and you're just now starting, you have to focus on how do you create trust? The best way to create trust is by what real people are saying. I can share with you endless amount of data showing you that products that just have five star reviews convert much worse than like 3.8. Which is insane, but it makes sense, because nobody believes everything is perfect. Authenticity, transparency are so key in a world where again, customer acquisition cost is super expensive because if you were able to bring a customer and she or he had a bad experience, it's bad unit economics. You cannot scale that business.Stephanie:Yeah. I think the interesting thing too, about organic reviews, even if they have a 3.8, is that you can oftentimes go in there and find, oh, this person's talking about something that I really don't care about. I'm even thinking about this and maybe Tomer you're in the same place where it's looking at daycare's, preschools, and all this. Some of them have a four-star and people are complaining about the wait list. I didn't want to pay a wait list fee, and you're, 'Okay." That shouldn't have brought it down, but that's real, and now I trust it a bit more, and now I'm interested in exploring it, and not just looking at a high level review. What I wonder is, how do you get people to review? How do you get them to submit photos? I don't have the time a lot of times, even though I love products, I just don't have time for it. How are you incentivizing customers to do that?Tomer:Yeah. I'll share a few stories that I think you'll find they're funny.Stephanie:We all have funny stories.Tomer:When we started, we didn't know a lot on the reviews industry. So what we did, Amazon, Amazon has a page called Amazon top reviewers. These are people that wrote, I don't even know how many reviews. We looked at their names or handlers, and we searched those people on Skype and Twitter, and we bombed them, and wanted to interview them. We spent hours and hours interviewing Amazon top reviewers, and I think it was eBay top reviewers, just trying to understand why people write reviews, what incentivize them to write reviews, and why other people are not writing reviews, and that's how we formed the new approach and the reviews industry. I think definitely we make it easy for you. You talked about, you don't have time. We build a technology called email review that you can leave the review inside the email.Tomer:It's one step, it's really easy to do. That's super, super important. The second thing that's really, really important is knowing when to ask for reviews. For example, when you buy a mattress, you need to experience with the product a little bit more before you will be willing to give a review versus a t-shirt. I think those are important. The last thing that I can tell you, which is really, really interesting, and this is why user generated content is so connected to loyalty, is once you identify who are customers that are likely to be loyal, those customers are much more likely to generate content for you, photos, video. After someone upload a photo, I can tell you now, if you're not a Yotpo customer, ask them to join your loyalty club. There's five X more chance that will happen. How do you take one interaction of the consumer with your brand, and translate it to the next step, and how do you take them in the customer journey step by step by step.Tomer:That's why we are big believers you need to consolidate the marketing stack because it is one customer, one journey, and it's not silo. I think it's a frictionless experience, is knowing when to ask, and knowing who to ask. It's super, super important. I think when we started Yotpo, we always heard the phrase of 1% of people write content, 9% of people reply to that comment, and 90% are just reading that content. Today we are more closer to five to 6% are generating content almost, which is a five X or six X improvements when we started. A lot of it is that consumer behavior, a lot of it is our technology, and a lot of it, I think is just brands are evolving and understanding the importance of that. But it's just fascinating when we ask about photos for example. There are brands that you would never imagine, never in your life, that people will ... I remember I was scrolling through one of our website, and they will say they are selling metals. Literally blocks of metals. That's what they said.Tomer:They have thousands of reviews, thousands of reviews. People write reviews and super passionate reviews. We also have an NLP engine, a natural language processing that can give us and the merchant, positive sentiment, negative sentiment, and show you the score. People are super passionate about it, and apparently people are passionate for ... Different people are passionate for different things. You just need to find those people that are passionate about what you build. That's what I always find super, super inspiring.Stephanie:That is a really interesting take though around how you just need to have that passionate audience and finding them. But what also is interesting is how you guys are ingesting the data in ways that, I think I've been there for a while, but you keep saying consolidating it. I've always thought okay, you get all these good reviews, but oftentimes, I might not want to see their review for 99% of the products that I'm not looking at. If I'm looking at stocks at a company that has a hundred skews, I really just want to be able to zoom in on the reviews of those stocks and not see everything else.Tomer:Even more than that, what we did now, if you go to Yotpo customers, is we build an NLP engine, Natural Language Processing that can pull up topics from the content. Let's say if you ... I don't want to take your pre-school example. If you want to just read about the waiting list, you can click waiting list and read just all the content talking about that. You want to read about the teacher, about the food, about whatever you want, you can. Especially on mobile, I can tell you that really, really increases conversion because who has the time to scroll through 300 reviews? No one. Once you have the relevant topic and a search bar, and the topics are actually accurate, then you start to really improve the quality of content that you are able to read, and you as a consumer really are able to get the information that you need in order to make a buying decision.Stephanie:Yeah. What do you think about curating reviews from other platforms? Do you guys also incorporate Amazon and walmart.com? How do you show in a holistic way? Or I also think a lot of those consumers are very different people who shop at Walmart, are different than Amazon versus on your website.Tomer:Yeah. In general, we are big believers that we need to authenticate. I mentioned how we started that these are real people that actually bought your product, so we just do it from the content we generated. I can tell you in our photos, we curate from Instagram or Pinterest, because we think that makes sense actually from specific hashtag, or specific accounts of the brand. I can tell you ... I'll give you another example that's been explosive for us. Let's say if you are a brand that want to increase your review count. Let's say you sell a lot on Amazon, you sell a lot direct, but you want to increase your review count on your direct SMS, the best example. Our integration, when you can send review quiz through SMS, amazing. Just amazing results.Tomer:I highly recommend it for anyone that wants to increase their social proof, is to leverage SMS and SMS marketing. This is why when for us it's you use our SMS marketing product and reviews under the same data platform. That's what we work. Our platform theme works on is to make that experiences literally a click of a button. Send review request, and that's it. I think in general, we are not a big believer from curation of content. It's more about generating that content and giving you more tools to generate authentic content that we can authenticate.Stephanie:Yeah, that's great. I think just thinking about making things frictionless for the end user. That's going to change everything. Especially with reviews, I'm thinking if you send me a text, an SMS, that just said, just review it and you don't pop me around a million other places-Tomer:Exactly.Stephanie:-I'll hit the start count. If I don't feel adding in words right now, I won't, but making it easy to where I'll actually interact quickly, I think is the way of the future. Even earlier on Amazon, it was asking me to review something on my homepage. I tried to click five stars then it shot me over to another page and wanted me to write stuff, and then I just exed out. I'm like, "No. It's too much work. I have two minutes before this interview." I was just trying to say, “I liked my pair of shorts I bought."Tomer:I can tell you it's the same thing in loyalty by the way. We see that loyalty, because loyalty you also see that in brand. But loyalty is a very complex problem. In order for a brand now to launch a loyalty program, they need to give it some thought. It's not a cookie cutter, because every brand has their own thing. On the flip side, if the experience won't be dead easy for the consumer, or frictionless for the consumer, consumers won't engage with the loyalty program. This is why we really focused on building an experience that it's going to be really easy for your consumers to understand what's in it for me, and how to engage with your loyalty program. Because if not, if it's like you said, a link to another page and then I need to ... it's not going to happen. They're not going to join your loyalty club. In general, in every product that we have, we are very, very focused on a very frictionless consumer experience, because we learned so many times, it won't work if it's complicated. It just won't.Stephanie:Yeah. How do you think about building up a good loyalty program? I'm sure a lot of your clients ask, what are some pitfalls that you've seen before, and how do I make it frictionless, and fun, and engaging? How would you advise them on creating one from scratch?Tomer:Yeah, there's a lot actually and it's a complex topic that we are super passionate about. But, if I need to summarize it, I'll say that one, like I mentioned complex problem, but it has to be an easy consumer experience. Second it's not one size fits all. You really need to understand, okay, why do you want to incentivize for? Let's take Chubbies, another example that we started. Chubbies has a great loyalty program across categories. Let's say if you buy shorts, they want you to buy a t-shirt, they will incentivize you with points to do that. That's super, super important. For Chubbies the point system it's basically a mechanism to incentivize certain behavior that you want, that works extremely well. You need to figure out what behaviors do you want to encourage. Another example is ThirdLove. I don't know if you're familiar with that brand.Stephanie:Yeah, I do know them.Tomer:They also use our loyalty program. For them it was all about the brand, meaning they didn't want to use a point system, they actually wanted to use a VIP tier system. You do a certain action or you spend a certain amount, and then you get certain VIP tiers level that you can get different parts from free shipping products, discounts, whatever you want. That's been working phenomenally well for them. I think early on just in 2021, you have to have a loyalty program. I think we are past the days that, yeah, I'm not sure. You are losing a lot of money, you're leaving a lot of money on the table, but you need to first figure out what do you want to incentivize for? What is the behavior you want to encourage?Tomer:That's super important. Then, what are you willing to give, and how do you make it easy for consumers to engage onsite? You can send different emails, you can run different social campaigns, or social contests. There's a bunch of things, but eventually it's all about how do you build a relationship with your most important customers? With the customer that you care the most on? It's a very emotional experience on one end, on the other end, it's that simple. You need to see ROI. It's all about customer lifetime value. The analytic needs to be if you're not sure if your loyalty program is not working or not, it's probably, it doesn't work, because it's very easy to understand that it's working, and it's about increasing customer lifetime value.Stephanie:I think that's a good point too, about knowing your customer and what they're going to want to see. For something like a ThirdLove, I can see why they want to be seen as it's more premium, you're part of the club. We're so much more higher end than a Victoria's Secret or whoever else they're competing with, versus the Chubbies, their client probably doesn't need to see that to feel like they're part of the club. They just want the product.Tomer:Exactly. It's such a strong brand that if you buy Chubbies you're already part of the club. It's one of the best ways definitely. I'll give you another example. Maybe I can give you also to share some light about the connectivity. Let's take another one of our customer that you probably know, Steve Madden. Let's say you are a junkie of sneakers, that's your thing in life, Stephanie. You are the number one in their VIP tier program. Literally number one. Then you get sneakers and you give them a negative review because the shoelace was off or whatever. They want to know about it.Stephanie:Sounds like me.Tomer:They want to know about it and they want to treat you a little bit differently. Taking that loyalty data, or the review data and injecting it back to loyalty and help desk, and doing all of that, is so, so important in order to provide a great consumer experience. That's the only way to do so. We see that time and time again, you can not live with silo. That's one of the biggest tips that I can give is that whenever if you're a Yotpo customer, you're not a Yotpo customer, it matters less. It's about the connected experience.Stephanie:Yeah. Personalizing it is huge, and having a customer not feel they're talking into a black box. If I say, “Hey, I'm not happy with something," and then like you said, they're like, "Here's some points to just buy some more of it," or something, that's probably-Tomer:I'll tell you another joke that we use internally. Personalization, I hate it when product managers come to me and talk about personalization because I won't call it the graveyard of ecommerce, but I think the problem with personalization, it's an endless problem. There is always something to improve, but eventually for the consumer, there is a diminishing value in keep on personally up until the point. For us, it's more about look at sub segments of your customers and how you treat them differently, and how do you help the marketer really test and try certain things, but trying to personalize it. You can do that all day long and it won't move the needle necessarily. It's just about understanding from that specific customer, what sub segment they belong to, and then how do you treat that sub segment differently?Stephanie:That's really interesting. I like that. It's not like everyone is a unique snowflake. However, they probably do fit in some buckets, and you can treat those segments pretty similar, and now we have methods for them. I liked that.Tomer:Exactly.Stephanie:I'm thinking about all this data that you guys are getting, and the way that you're reacting to it and making new products and helping these brands, what data is out there that I guess you could call it dark data, that you feel could be tapped into, but you're like, we just haven't gotten there yet, but there’s always data that's out there that you feel you're still not fully utilizing. What are brands usually have access to, but they're just not fully capitalizing on it?Tomer:From the brand or from Yotpo perspective?Stephanie:I say brand perspective.Tomer:Brand perspective, I think the most interesting thing is actually analyzing the content itself of the reviews. I can give you two examples. One of the best examples which I love. Are you familiar with [inaudible].Stephanie:No.Tomer:From these scores they're actually doing phenomenally well. A phenomenal brand. For them, we actually were able to analyze the content. We have a engine called insights from the natural language processing, and we learned something really interesting. That a lot of the content was written "I'm so happy. My boyfriend bought me that and that." "I'm so happy. My husband did..." We actually told them, "You know what? We think you should launch a couples line, because a lot of your buyer persona, it's not the sheets He buying for his girlfriend, for his wife, it doesn't matter." It's one of the most successful launches they ever had. Or we have another furniture brand that I won't mentioned their name, that we showed them that the number one reason for returns of the product is actually the smell of the sofa, and they need to fix that, because they have a real problem in that.Tomer:Actually looking at reviews as a let's call it [inaudible] and that your ability to analyze on scale, and have a really smart again NLP engine that can show you what customers are saying in slice and dice, it's fair. All the volumes per a customer behavior, per location, per segment is so, so important. You can get so much in product teams, marketing teams, service teams for sure. You can get to learn so much from it. I think that's a dataset that a lot of brands are not spending enough time looking at.Stephanie:Yeah. It makes me think gone are the days where you would have people come into a room, and they try out your product and you hear feedback. It's why. Now you can just get thousands of data points, use NLP, digest the data and figure out how to change your product going forward.Tomer:Exactly that.Stephanie:Makes it funny thinking about that. What about from a Yotpo perspective? What data do you want to get access to, to inform either your current products or new ones?Tomer:Something that we think about a lot is it's very clear that commerce is going to be like Omni channel. Or is. Some of it will be marketplaces. Most of it will be direct to consumers. Some of it, maybe it will be on social, some of it maybe will be on Google, who knows. Everyone is trying that transaction will happen now at Instagram, on Google shopping, or whatever. For us, it's how do you give more value when you sell on Amazon? How do we give more verdict? We just launched a partnership with Walmart that you can syndicate all your content with a click of a button. If you sell also on Walmart, all of your content will be there as well, so you'll sell more on watermark. For us, it's really about how do we take more data? We're now working with Facebook and Google on a bunch of really, really interesting stuff, and how do we just help you to be a better Omni channel brand? I think.Stephanie:What data then are you looking at to be a better omni-channel brand? What things are you tapping into that maybe you weren't able to a couple of years ago?Tomer:For us, with every new product that we add, there was a huge data injection. Just think about, let's take SMS and loyalty. It's so valuable that you have the two products under the same data platform that you can really for the first time send new SMS'es for just your loyal customers. Just your highest VIP tier, you want to send them an SMS because you know that SMS will convert the best because they are your most loyal customer. You can do that. I can tell you sending an SMS just saying, thank you, thank you, after someone referred a friend. You would be surprised how much that increased customer lifetime value. I always give our product team our ideal experience is let's say Stephanie, one store will start opening up again. Think about you going, buying at the store that you are one of the most loyal customers, buying a ThirdLove offline store once they'll have one, and then the second you walk out the door, you get an SMS, "Thank you for buying with us again. We really appreciate that."Tomer:How awesome is that? Who doesn't want to build that brand? I think from a data standpoint, the more products that we have, we really understand better the different segments of your customers, and make it easy for you to launch different campaigns. For us, SMS, for example, was a huge vision. That's something that we didn't have, a new execution layer. Loyalty was a huge addition. I think every product that we keep adding, we are learning much more on the brand. We're learning much more on the customers of the brand.Stephanie:I like that. It definitely seems there's a lot of room, especially for in-person retail experiences to complete that journey and to also be helpful as you walk into a store. But to a point where it doesn't get creepy where it's "I see you in the makeup aisle right now, and I would go with this one over that one," that's probably is taking it a little too far, but it still seems there's room for brands to interact more because I don't get many messages right now, and the ones that I do are very generic and not helpful. I sometimes wonder, why don't my, a customer service rep, take a picture and send it to me and be, Hope your day is going well." I think I would like something personal and funny like that, more than just come in and get 20% off today.Tomer:I can tell you what we're hearing now from brands is that they are sending so many generic SMS that they actually... an SMS is ... it's not a cheap channel. It's not like email. You need to actually pay for the message for the carrier. You really need to think carefully, “Okay, maybe for customers that gave me one star review, I need to ask a different SMS and send them, 'Hey, how can I change the experience? I'm sorry, what can we do?' versus customers that raved about the price, and maybe send them an SMS talking about a discount of customers that talk about the service, say send a picture of the customer service that helps them. That connectivity is I think what's really, really important.Stephanie:Yeah, I agree. Where do you see the world of UGC in general transforming to over the next couple of years?Tomer:I think UGC will definitely move towards a place that how do you take the content you're able to create, and leverage that in multiple places in your email marketing, in your SMS marketing, on your social ads, on Walmart, on Amazon, on Etsy, wherever you are as a brand, how you interact with consumers, that's where you need UGC to be at. I think that's super, super important. The second thing is that, what do you understand from that UGC? That's something that I feel that as a company, we are just at the tip of the iceberg. There's so much to be done there because these are the most important signals from your customers. That's something that we are very, very excited about. The question is, will there be a new form of UGC? Stories, voice.Tomer:There's a lot of things that we play around with in our hackathons to really trying to help pave the way of what's next in UGC. I can tell you it's very early, like videos actually for now for us now is a new format that's also been growing really, really quickly. Will there be a new format? That's also really, really interesting.Stephanie:How do you view influencers versus UGC? Because the way the market's headed right now, I wonder if the whole influencer scene will start to die off, because people will keep wanting more authentic interactions and relationships, and they want to buy from people that feel more like them. How do you see influencers playing out all that?Tomer:The influencer is another really interesting field. First of all, I think it depends. Again, it's not a one size fits all. It really depends on, what do you want to achieve with influencers? I think people understand today that just giving the Kardashian your product doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to increase sale. They can really, really help, and you can see Kylie cosmetic. But the top influencer was actually building their own brands because they understand that's where the vast majority of revenue is, and that's something we see a lot in. Now you see micro influencers. I think you probably need to do both, and different purposes. I think a UGC is more let's say the basics. You need to have social proof. For me, influencer it's more about another channel like paid.Tomer:Like a Google ads, you now have influencer ads, if you want to influence attacks, and it works, and you need to do it very, very well, but it's actually not related to UGC. UGC it's the foundation of your brand. You cannot do Google ads, you cannot do influencer ads without it. I think in general influencer is really interesting, but I also think that brands and influencer today, they see that in order for it to work, they need to be authentic. Stephanie:I completely agree. All right. The last question before we jump into the lightning round, do you integrate with awesome platforms like our sponsor, Salesforce Commerce Cloud?Tomer:Yes, definitely. We are a big partner of Salesforce Commerce Cloud. We're actually I think one of the fastest growing solution on Salesforce Commerce Cloud at the moment, and they've been great partners of ours. We have really amazing brands. We started with reviews, now with loyalty, SMS is coming in just a few weeks I think. Yes, definitely. I think it's one of the best platform for the enterprises that we see in the market.Stephanie:I completely agree with that. With that, let's jump into the lightning round, which is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. This is where I ask a question, and you have 30 seconds or less to answer. Are you ready Tomer?Tomer:Of course. I was born ready.Stephanie:If you were to have a podcast, what would it be about, and who would your first guest be?Tomer:What a great question. I think if I need to do a podcast, it will be just some great ecommerce stories, and I think just like one of the best people I know from the industry, his name is Scott Perry. He's now the leading everything related to ecommerce in Jerome, before that he was involved with furniture, he's just freaking awesome. He's just really, really awesome. The other one that I really, really love is actually Lauren from Shopify. He's another really awesome person to spend time. He basically found the Shopify plus.Stephanie:I like that. It might be a little competitive with our podcast. However, competition is healthy, so I'll accept it.Tomer:No, I think what you're doing by the way is super, super cool. It's really, really interesting, and anyone in ecommerce should ... these are exactly the type of content that people should be listened to, if you care about ecommerce.Stephanie:Thank you. I love that. Man, it's good thing I brought you on. What is the nicest thing anyone's ever done for you?Tomer:The nicest thing that anyone ever done to me. I think definitely I'll say my wife. We have two young boys. She saw me in some really, really tough nights, and she was there to really help me pass through those tough nights. I would definitely give it to my wife.Stephanie:Shout out to your wife. I hope she listens to this. That's great.Tomer:Of course she will.Stephanie:Yeah, she will. What one thing do you not understand today that you wish you did?Tomer:I don't know. How do you get a crying baby to stop crying?Stephanie:I, after three boys, I still don't fully know that one. That's just a question that can't be answered.Stephanie:All right. The last one, what is the last ecommerce purchase you made that you're most excited about?Tomer:I'm actually super excited. I don't know if you can see my background, but I bought from a society six. It's one of our customers, and it's actually a great story to end with. I think I can share about the Yotpo culture. When we founded Yotpo, you know that how every startup is saying that they started at a basement and yada yada. Our office was a real basement, meaning it was an apartment building, you would go down, turn left. There was no lights, no nothing. Even for people that were willing to interview for two people start startup, we got some feedback that their office is too hardcore. We didn't have money for furniture, and we didn't know what to do. I stole for a different time. I had a bunch of Sesame street puppets at my apartment. So I brought them to the office and that started to be our vibes.Tomer:Then when we moved to a real office, we took them with us, and then when we started opening offices across the globe, people thought that they need to bring Sesame street stuff with them. Then when we moved to the home office in COVID, I said, "Okay, we need to bring Sesame street stuff." I bought from society six. We never forget where we coming from, where we came from. Sorry. I think that's maybe one of the things I'm most excited about, and I just bought ... Actually there's another one. Because I keep buying from our customers. That's my thing in life. I buy just from our customers. There's an Oura ring that helps you sleep better and analyze your sleep. I don't know if you're familiar with that.Stephanie:No. What's it called?Tomer:Oura ring. It's really, really ... I don't know if people can see, but it's-Stephanie:You can explain it to anyone who [inaudible].Tomer:It's a ring that basically tracks, with an app tracks, how you sleep, how you need to give you let's say guidance on how to better sleep. I'm super excited to test it. It just arrived today, and I'm going to test it. Excited about that.Stephanie:What things do you think it'll tell you? To sleep better, quarantine your kids off in a room where you can't hear them, or?Tomer:I wish. I wish someone would tell us that, yes, yes.Stephanie:You got that. Tell me how that works. That sounds awesome. Well, Tomer, thanks so much for joining the show. It's been a pleasure. Where can people find out more about you and Yotpo?Tomer:First of all, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure, and I think we in Yotpo are big fans of the podcast, by the way. We have a few episodes that we mentioned, it's actually a thing. You can just go to Yotpo if you want to meet personally. It's tomer@yotpo.com. It's nothing too special, and feel free to reach out.Stephanie:Amazing. Thanks so much.Tomer:Thank you for having me.

A travel agent called his rabbi the other day, asking if he was allowed to book a flight that was scheduled to leave on Shabbat for another Jew. The rabbi told him, although it would not violate the negative commandment of לפני עיור, because this potential customer could easily book the same flight elsewhere, however, there would be an issur d'rabanan of helping somebody else commit an avera . Yet, there are acharonim who hold that this prohibition does not apply to people who don't care about keeping the mitzvah. And therefore the rabbi concluded there is what to rely upon if he wanted to book that ticket, but he would recommend not to. The travel agent then said, "You mean, it would be like a Kiddush Hashem if I don't? I want to make sure I do everything in my business the way Hashem wants. The rabbi replied, "Yes, it would be a Kiddush Hashem, and don't worry, you'll never lose out on business by being careful to follow Halacha the best way. In fact, another man just called me a half an hour ago and told me a personal story." The rabbi continued, "He is a contractor, and told that he found a great home that he wanted to renovate and resell. It was a super deal. The real estate agent gave him her word that it was his for $675,000. The papers were finally in order, and the contract was ready to sign, but it was Chol Hamoed Sukkot . The contractor did not want to do business on Chol Hamoed. He told the real estate agent he wanted to wait until after the holiday to sign it. She replied that if he didn't sign right then and there, she would put it back in the market and surely the price would go up. 'This is a דבר האבד,' she added. 'It's a loss if you don't do it now. And therefore it's permissible to purchase, even on Chol Hamoed. " The contractor told her he wanted to honor Hashem, and be strict, especially since Chol Hamoed is treated lightly these days. She then told him, 'Okay, it's your loss.' And she put the house back on the market. Sure enough, the price did go up as a bidding war ensued, until it finally reached $810,000. After the holiday, she called the contractor and asked him if he wanted to beat that price or let it go. She added, 'You see if you would have listened to me and signed on Chol Hamoed , you would have gotten it for $675,000.' He told her, 'It's okay, let the other person take it for 810.' 'The real estate agent then told the owner of the home about all of the events, which transpired. The owner himself is a religious Jew. When he heard that the contractor refused to sign because of Chol Hamoed, he said, 'I'm very impressed with him. And I want him to have the house.' The real estate agent told him, 'That would mean you're foregoing $135,000.' The owner said, 'There are things that are more important than money. Nobody should lose for being strict on Halacha.' And with that, the contractor got the home for $675,000." He told the rabbi afterward, "I see this all the time. Nobody can take what's yours. If Hashem wants you to have something, you'll get it. And of course you'll never lose by following His will." When the rabbi told this story to the travel agent, the travel agent replied, "Thank you, Rabbi. That's just what I needed to hear. That story couldn't have come at a better time." This is the absolute truth. Hashem is in charge of our parnasa . If we do our best to go over and above to do His will, we'll only gain from it."

Melissa Santos joins Crystal this week to get in to policing legislation and its potential outcomes, whether or not we'll see a wealth tax come to fruition in Washington this year, and the appointment of accused rapist Joe Fain to the redistricting commission. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii. Find today's guest, Melissa Santos, @MelissaSantos1. More information is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.   Resources Read about how the Washington legislature is seeking to deal with police use of excessive force here: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/washington-legislature-takes-up-excessive-force-by-law-enforcement/  See what's policing bills are still before the legislature here: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/washington-state-lawmakers-pass-bills-to-ban-police-use-of-chokeholds-and-neck-restraints-collect-use-of-force-data/  Learn about the flawed investigation into the killing of Manuel Ellis of Tacoma by the police here: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/times-watchdog/contradictions-conflicts-of-interest-cloud-probe-of-manuel-ellis-killing-by-tacoma-police/  Get to know about how police officers are de-certificed here: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/times-watchdog/fired-but-still-a-cop-how-the-state-decertification-process-leaves-troubled-officers-with-their-guns/  Follow Washington's potential plans to tax the wealthy of our state (with today's guest, Melissa Santos) here: https://crosscut.com/politics/2021/02/tracking-plans-tax-rich-2021-washington-legislature  Read about Washington State's regressive tax system here: https://www.kuow.org/stories/why-washington-ranks-as-the-worst-state-for-poor-residents  Learn about the objections to Joe Fain's appointment to the redistricting commission here: https://crosscut.com/politics/2021/02/groups-denounce-selection-joe-fain-redistricting-commission  Follow everything going on in the legislature, learn about how to contact your legislature, and watch and participate in committee hearings at https://leg.wa.gov/   Transcript: Crystal Fincher: [00:00:00] Welcome to Hacks and Wonks. I'm your host Crystal Fincher. On this show, we talk to political hacks and policy wonks to gather insight into local politics and policy through the lens of those doing the work and provide behind-the-scenes perspectives on politics in our state. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Thank you for joining us today on Hacks and Wonks. Today I'm very pleased to be joined by Melissa Santos who's Crosscut's staff reporter covering state politics and the Legislature. Thank you so much for joining us today, Melissa. Melissa Santos: [00:01:05] Thanks for having me. Crystal Fincher: [00:01:06] Well, you have definitely been covering lots of events in the Legislature, so I guess just starting off, I wanted to get an idea for where the public safety and policing reform bills stand. Lots of fanfare going in - talking about a number of reforms that they were talking about implementing, the need to move forward on demands that community were making and to keep communities safe in function and not just name - with a lot of ideas that turned into a lot of bills. And so what is currently still alive in the Legislature in terms of public safety and policing reform and where do they stand? Melissa Santos: [00:01:51] I think most of the bills, in some fashion, that were introduced early this year to deal with sort of different police reforms are still alive, in some fashion. They always change in the process, but we saw the state Senate pass out a bill to try and reform arbitration as a process by which sometimes discipline that's imposed on cops gets overturned through this arbitration process after they're either suspended or fired. And there's been concerns that that makes it hard to actually discipline cops effectively. So there's some reforms moving forward to deal with that. I think the Governor and some of the advocates' insistence that there needs to be an independent investigatory body to investigate police uses of force - I would be shocked if the Legislature didn't pass something to do that and create that independent agency. So that's moving ahead. We also, I think it was just today - this week, we saw a bill that would create a more clear duty for cops to intervene when they see wrongdoing or misconduct. That's moving as well. And some of the bills that I thought might be more difficult actually have cleared some of the early deadlines to stay alive. One of those is a bill dealing with qualified immunity that would create a way for people to sue at the state level when they feel their rights have been violated - in a way that people feel they have not been able to do federally because of how the law is structured at this time. So we're seeing a lot of stuff to do there. And I think the biggest bill that probably people are focused on are some of the ones to limit what police can do. I mean - tactics kind of bills that would set limits on what kind of holds they can use, what kind of circumstances they can use police dogs on people. And so those are things that are kind of really changing, I think, and kind of being modified over time. But that there's definitely, I think, going to be some new restrictions on police tactics passed. It's just what shape they will take it's still kind of being decided. Crystal Fincher: [00:04:05] So yeah, you bring up a good point. It depends on what shape they will take and any modifications, amendments - which happen through this process. Legislation can change, things can be added or taken out. So from what it looks like, does it look like the policy is going to make it through as intended? Are there changes being talked about or being made to pieces of legislation? Or does it look like they're going to be able to deliver on the original intent of the bills as originally written? Melissa Santos: [00:04:44] I feel like we're still a little bit early in the session to say for sure, but I definitely think there's some concern that the tactics bill, in particular, might be getting watered down. I need to take a little closer look at some of those concerns, but that one was a really wide-ranging bill, right? I mean, it had limits on the use of military equipment, the use on, maybe that was a different bill. There's a lot of police bills - but the whole idea was making it so they're less militaristic. A lot of sort of limits on that - banning certain neck restraints and such. And I think the fear is that they might end up with a bill that just says we won't use choke holds anymore or something. And that that's not going to be substantive enough. And I don't know that, right now - I talked to the ACLU of Washington, who's working on some of those bills now and they still feel - they were telling me that they're fairly substantive. I'm not sure they're going to tell me they think they're terrible right now or something if they're working to kind of keep them whole, but it's just something that - we're not even halfway through the session at this point, so there's just a lot of opportunity for those bills to change. And I think that's something people are watching really closely. I'm not sure how they'll ultimately end up and if they'll stay the way advocates and the community members hoped they would be. It's still kind of to be determined, in my view, at this point. Crystal Fincher: [00:06:08] And you bring up a really good point - we are still fairly early in the session. But there's this weird dynamic that a lot of people who are tuning in, for the first time for a lot of people, to the day-to-day happenings of the Legislature - because so much more is online and you can engage with committees online, is hearing the big rush of deadlines that recently passed and are passing for bills to get out of committee, for bills to get heard, for bills to pass deadlines to move forward, which do happen fairly early in session. So I guess what happens - we're very early and stuff makes it past cutoff - between cutoff and then we still have another month or two of session, what occurs during that time? Is that all the horse trading and the modifications and figuring that out? Melissa Santos: [00:07:03] Yeah. I mean, I think that that's one reason on these bills they've just been ... House Democrats and Democrats right now - they do control everything in Olympia. So, I mean, they've really indicated that these are priority bills - to really enact new police accountability measures, right? And it's always a point of tension because police unions, in general, don't like further regulation. They don't want their arbitration rights to be taken away, right? So there's a lot of pushback, and I think there's a lot of internal discussions that go on at these times that aren't even happening in the public arena. But we've seen this before - on police reform a couple of years ago. Some of the bills to - let me remember - to basically make it easier to charge police for abusive force, what was Initiative 940. That was sent to the Legislature, for them to review, and it looked like maybe nothing was going to happen. And at the end, this compromise measure comes through, that everyone says is great. And so I just think that even if bills look like they're dead - they didn't clear a committee deadline - I'm not comfortable writing a story that says, "Oh yeah, this bill, it's gone this year." Because I just think that there's all these conversations happening, especially after we saw last year, where I think that - I wouldn't be surprised if some of these proposals get merged as some giant bill at the end of the year, the end of the legislative session I should say. That is even different than what we're seeing now. Crystal Fincher: [00:08:49] Yeah. That's fair and definitely possible, and we've seen that happen before. In terms of support and opposition, I think a lot of people anticipated, Hey, there's a Democratic majority. If Democrats talk about wanting to do it on the front end leading into the session and introduce bills, then it should automatically be able to happen. Have we been seeing unified Democratic support, or are there some legislators who have on the Democratic side been more resistant? And on the flip side, are there any Republican legislators who have been more receptive? Melissa Santos: [00:09:27] I do think there has been, on police reform, some at least surface agreement. You've been seeing from the Republican side saying, "Yeah, we need to do stuff." I think that the Manny Ellis case in Tacoma, where the independent investigation wasn't really turning out to be so independent and that kind of blowing up as a huge problem in the past year - I think that has indicated to people across parties that there's an issue with actually even enforcing the laws we have on the books on right now, like to have independent investigations, which was something that was approved by voters with 940. So I do think - I'll have to look at the votes on some of these - but yeah I think there'll be Republican votes for some of these bills, so I don't think it will be a strict party line thing. But yeah, I mean, you have a lot of, in general, I'm going to speak generally, because I haven't looked at the vote count on every bill that closely, but you definitely have Democrats who are conscious of maintaining police support and are worried about public safety and people in their communities saying - there is a sense that we can't dismantle the police too much among some people in certain communities, especially some suburban communities. That's something people are worried about - that some of their constituents will not like that. And even in some of those same communities there's maybe people that are feeling the opposite. So I think that there's pressure to not defund the police. There is no measure to defund the police that the Legislature is considering right now, I should clarify, but I think some of this is getting grouped in there a little bit. I mean, these are kind of pretty straightforward bills that would not take funding away from the police. The State can't even really do that too much because it's all locally, for the most part, funded. But, actually, the bill I didn't mention that I think is one of the more significant ones would make this decertification process that our state has right now actually, theoretically, I guess, work. Because right now - I was just talking to someone today who's a police chief who said that he doesn't feel like if he checks a box saying, "I think this person needs to be looked at for decertification." He doesn't feel like he has any guarantee that that will happen, even if he thinks it's important for it to happen as an individual police chief who fired this person. So that's kind of an issue that we have where cops sometimes do bounce between departments, even if they are let go from one department or maybe allowed to retire in lieu of being fired or something like that. And right now, that's the whole idea, is that if you have a process by which you can say, "Okay, you are no longer certified to work as a police officer in Washington State." That could kind of end that ability to go between departments. But I mean, it's all in the details about what's the standard by which, the universal standard by which, hey, this person no longer will have a certification anymore. And I think that that gets really complicated when dealing with unions, because I mean, there certainly are a lot of things - there's a lot of reasons why unions generally started a long time ago to try and protect workers' rights. But I think there's that conflict within the labor community right now about how police unions fit into that entire picture. And so that's a whole thing that I think is really going to mess with it - is actually the fear that messing with police unions is going to lead to some dismantling of union protections more broadly. And I think that's a huge issue right now for some Democrats who think that that's - the concern, for instance, with the arbitration proposals. If you make it harder for police to review their discipline through arbitration, are we saying it's okay for other unions to no longer have the power to review and have objection to some disciplinary measures opposed against teachers, against other people, and all sorts of things. So that's going to be a kind of more complex one, politically complex, in that respect, I think. And yeah, that's why it's not just like a Democratic rubber stamp on any proposal that has emerged at this point. Crystal Fincher: [00:14:21] Certainly. I would agree with that. I appreciate your clarification and care to which you took to point out that there is no bill to defund the police. Legislation can be very complex and there's so much that goes into it, that the details become really important. And certainly with a number of these bills, frankly, the police and unions and their interests have become very good at just using tiny little details and technicalities to really remove the teeth from a lot of bills or to make things so subjective and conditional that they actually don't apply to many situations that were originally targeted with the bill. You're listening to Hacks and Wonks with your host Crystal Fincher on KVRU 105.7 FM. And for people's information - you can actually just go onto leg.wa.gov, and you can see all of the documents from hearings. You can look at videos from hearings to see what people are saying, or just read a bill digest, which gives you a synopsis of the bill. You can see who testifies in favor of and in opposition to bills - sometimes that's very illuminating. And then you can also see vote tallies on how they're voting - which legislators are voting in favor of legislation moving out of committee or on further, versus those voting against. So that can give you a lot of useful information about what your legislators are doing and what different organizations throughout the community are doing and what they're actually advocating for. I also wanted to talk about revenue proposals and there certainly are a lot on the table. What is still in play and where do those stand? Melissa Santos: [00:16:23] It's funny, I was having this conversation with someone yesterday where - I just don't think any of these deadlines matter for any tax bill at all. Crystal Fincher: [00:16:32] Yeah. Melissa Santos: [00:16:32] Because basically, every single year, there's new revenue tax measures that emerge when the legislators release their budget proposals. And then there's sometimes new ones that pop up once they reach a budget agreement at the very end of the session where you're like, "Well, what's that? I don't even know what that is." So what I ended up doing, just because that ends up being what usually happens, is I'm trying to keep track of all of them in one story that I just update throughout the session at this point. So at this point, everything's alive, I should say. I do think that the idea of taxing capital gains, which has been around in our state for a while - this would be profits from selling stocks, bonds, and some other assets, possibly commercial real estate, but there's some differences in different proposals. That proposal -  I think it has more potential to actually pass this year than it ever has had before. And that's kind of a big one that the Governor has proposed, a capital gains tax. The Senate budget committee actually passed out a capital gains tax last week, or very recently. And it's usually the Senate where this measure, I can't say it goes to die, because the House doesn't actually vote on it in general. But generally the perception is the House has the support to pass this measure to tax capital gains, but the Senate has not in the past, even with a slim Democratic majority. There seems to be some thought that has changed with just even having one or two fewer moderate Democratic senators who were reticent about the proposal. So we're going to have to see if they actually are going to take that vote, but there seems to be more of a consensus that, Yeah, taxing people who have huge sales of stocks that nets them a large profit - that's something we might be willing to do this year. And so that's one of the ones that's in play. There's a new thing that the House Finance Committee Chairwoman Noel Frame proposed, which is a wealth tax, and that's interesting proposal. It would just be a flat 1% tax, but then everyone who has under a billion dollars is exempt from it. Crystal Fincher: [00:18:47] And that was billion with a B. Melissa Santos: [00:18:50] Yeah. A billion with a B. So that doesn't apply to that many people. I think the State Department of Revenue estimates less than 100 taxpayers would pay that, yet it would raise like $2 billion a year, which is a lot. The state budget is probably going to be $55-56 billion this year, so two billion a year is not an insignificant amount of money. Yeah. But the issue with that, and actually really kind of with the capital gains proposal too, is they don't think they would be able to collect that money - sorry, they do not think they would be able to connect that .. I'm really having trouble speaking, okay. Crystal Fincher: [00:19:26] You're fine. Melissa Santos: [00:19:28] With a wealth tax or a capital gains tax, there's not going to be an immediate you can collect this money and spend it on stuff. I mean, it takes a while to even build up money from tax collections anyway. But there will be lawsuits over these proposals if they passed - particularly the wealth tax, I think. There would be arguments - that is an income tax that is against our state constitution. Actually, they would happen for capital gains tax too. So that's always lurking in the background that - are these taxes even legal? The Republicans argue they are not. So those are there. Those are happening and are actively being considered. There's actually - one of the proposals I suspect might just like pop up at the very end of the session, because I know it's being worked on but it hasn't been introduced, is a payroll tax that's similar to what Seattle passed, I guess it would be last year. Time is very strange lately. Crystal Fincher: [00:20:25] Yes. Melissa Santos: [00:20:25] But I guess that would have been 2020. And this is again trying to tax people or companies really that have a lot of people who make a lot of money, that employ people and where they pay pretty high salaries. So it's a business tax. It is not something that aims to target actual employee income but saying, "For every person you pay over $150,000", I think that's the current thought at least for the threshold, "We're going to charge you a certain percentage on their salary." And that is something that there are lawmakers working on. There's always these discussions behind the scenes, but there hasn't been a bill introduced. And so that's something they're talking about. There's some estate tax proposals to kind of make that more progressive as well. And I haven't heard as much buzz about those, but it's one of those things that it's possible they could do something like that. Where saying, "Hey, when people die and pass on their big, big, big amounts of money, we're going to say, 'Okay, we're not even going to apply the tax to people who have smaller estates, but we're going to raise the tax on people who have really big one.'" That sort of thing. So yeah, those are some of the ones that are in play right now. I'm a 100% confident there will be different tax proposals though, that are introduced, soon. Crystal Fincher: [00:21:40] Well, we'll certainly have to follow that. There's a feeling that we were already paying more than our fair share as people who are not billionaires. We are known for being one of the most regressive states in terms of a tax burden, meaning that people at the bottom are paying the highest percentage in terms of taxes of a variety of types. And we don't have an income tax in the state, but we certainly have a variety of sales and use taxes and other taxes and that's even before we get to the fees conversation. And that all adds up to more than what most income taxes would be for moderate income individuals anyway. And certainly on the very high end, they're just reaping these benefits without paying back into the public coffers. I wanted to also touch on a hearing that happened actually this past Sunday of the Redistricting Commission. And this was not a normal hearing, and the composition of this Redistricting Commission isn't as it's been before. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Melissa Santos: [00:22:50] Yeah. Well, we have a redistricting process in Washington State that - a lot of people say that compared to some states, ours is pretty good. I mean, this is the body that is assigned to redraw boundaries of all the Congressional districts, all the legislative districts. So that actually really matters. I do not explain this to you, Crystal. I'm probably explaining it to the listeners, because Crystal knows way more about this than I do, but it really matters for - who can get elected where, who's represented in what areas, which communities are kind of split down the middle so that maybe their ability to be represented or influence their lawmakers is diluted. So that that's all kind of at play with this commission. So we do have a bi-partisan redistricting commission, which is, I think most scholars think that's preferable to having just the party who controls the legislature being able to decide everything, redraw the boundaries to make their party have an advantage. But it still has partisan politics in play, right? So anyway, each of the political caucuses of the legislature appoint someone. So two Republicans, two Democrats. In this case one of the people appointed was a former state Senator named Joe Fain, who represented the 47th Legislative District until, through the end of 2018. He's from Auburn, but it also, it includes part of- Crystal Fincher: [00:24:16] Maple Valley, Covington. Melissa Santos: [00:24:17] Thank you. Crystal Fincher: [00:24:18] Yeah. Melissa Santos: [00:24:19] And actually, it's one of those districts, I think kind of splits communities down the middle in some ways. Crystal Fincher: [00:24:23] It is. Melissa Santos: [00:24:25] So it's a kind of a strange district. Well, he got appointed, but the thing about Joe Fain is he lost his race two years ago shortly after being accused of rape. And so that was a bit of a controversial appointment for the Senate Republicans to make of their former colleague. And that we heard about that on Sunday. This is maybe the third or fourth meeting of this redistricting commission. Yeah, I think it's the third one, because this was just kind of finalized - the membership in mid-January. And so there was a letter written in the last few days, I guess, so a week ago now. So maybe two weeks before your listeners will hear this saying, "This was inappropriate." This was the National Women's Political Caucus saying, "This person should not have been appointed. Someone who had a rape accusation that was never disproven, was never really fully investigated, should not be serving on this important commission that decides so much of our political future for a decade." And there were a lot of groups that signed onto that as well. There were some groups representing sexual assault advocacy groups. There were individuals who signed on in their personal capacity as well. And this was the first commission meeting since that letter came out. So we did hear from several people who expressed their disappointment that the commission includes someone who was accused of rape and sort of that accusation still lingers because it never was investigated. And there was actually an effort to investigate it in the State Senate that then was dismantled and got shut down. So it just kind of sitting out there and that was something people expressed disappointment with. I think everyone who spoke, maybe there were - might have been a dozen people, maybe a little fewer, so not some huge, huge crowd, but it's a Sunday morning at 9:00 AM. But all of them except one mentioned this - this was the topic of conversation. The people who commented from the community about the commission, that "We think this sends a terrible message to sexual assault survivors that their experiences do not matter to have a person accused of rape on this commission." And so that's going to be interesting, I suppose. The thing that has become clear is you really can't do anything once you appoint someone to a commission, like the redistricting commission. I don't think there's any power of anyone to actually take someone off unless they resign. I'm not sure if there's anything written, is what I've been hearing, that there's anything that can be done at this point, unless someone decides, "Hey, I'm going to step down." And there's no indication Joe Fain intends to do that at this point. Crystal Fincher: [00:26:58] And disappointing and confounding - and certainly the Republican response has ranged from - this was solely a political attack, and not a credible accusation, which flies in the face of what I think most people and what the general consensus is - is that that absolutely was a credible accusation and deserved to be investigated, certainly, and the facts determined. And the fact that it just went away and then Joe Fain was appointed, hired as the head of the Bellevue Chamber of Commerce, which we could talk about a variety of reasons for why that happened. But then pops up as the choice of the Republican Party statewide, for just one of two spots. Out of everyone they could have chosen, this is the direction they chose to go - was really disappointing and infuriating to a lot of people. But it certainly also seems like Joe Fain is almost hiding from the public and he has been hesitant to appear on camera, has been hesitant to fully participate in these meetings, has been hard to schedule and them finding time to come together. So even now, the productivity of the commission is being called into question. So we'll just continue to keep an eye on it. So with that, I think we are actually at the time today. Thank you so much for joining us, and thank you to everyone listening to Hacks and Wonks today. So again, appreciate our guest Melissa Santos who's Crosscut's staff reporter covering state politics and the Legislature. You can find her on Twitter @MelissaSantos1, and she just does excellent work. You can read her on Crosscut, certainly helps to stay on top of what's happening in the Legislature and across the state. So thank you and have a wonderful day. Thank you for listening to Hacks and Wonks. Our chief audio engineer at KVRU is Maurice Jones Jr. The producer of Hacks and Wonks is Lisl Stadler. You can find me on Twitter @finchfrii, spelled F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I, and now you can follow Hacks and Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts, just type in "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get our Friday almost-live shows and our mid-week show delivered to your podcast feed. You can also get a full text transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced during the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the podcast episode notes. Thanks for tuning in. Talk to you next time.

Felicia Douglass - "Continuation," a 2021 self-released single. Felicia Douglass's voice is all around us: not only is she a solo artist, she's also a member of Ava Luna, Gemma, and Dirty Projectors; and she has lent her gorgeous vocals to Lushlife, BAILE, Toro y Moi, Helado Negro, and others. "There was a point a few years ago where I was like, 'Okay, I feel like I'm in too many bands,'" the Brooklyn-based artist jokingly toldGARAGE last year.  Thanks to her home studio set-up, Douglass has been able to continue working remotely. ("Casio keyboards are good clutter," she quips.) Today's Song of the Day is one of those at-home creations, released last October.  Read the full post on KEXP.org Support the show: https://www.kexp.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Starting a business can be incredibly tricky. Statistics say about 80% or more of enterprises end up failing. If you’re a business owner or a founder, you know how there are so many factors to consider. Overcoming obstacles every step of the way is far from an easy feat. Moreover, starting a business requires a ton of research, but research alone won't guarantee success. So what's the secret? In this episode, Daryl Urbanski joins us to share the secret to building businesses and scaling them. You’ll learn about how his background taught him to be one of the leading business experts of this generation. He also discusses how to overcome obstacles and take your business to the next level. If you want to learn how to be a successful entrepreneur, tune in to this episode!   Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/. You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.   Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.   Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.   Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.   My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.   Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: Hear Daryl’s insights on raising children and lessons gained from martial arts. Learn the secret to overcoming obstacles and building successful businesses. Find out what you need to become an entrepreneur.   Resources NMN Bio by Elena Seranova Lifespan by David Sinclair The Dream of Life by Alan Watts Learn more about Daryl’s group coaching and pay-for-performance model! The Best Business Podcast with Daryl Urbanski   Episode Highlights [7:02] How Daryl Started Out Daryl was orphaned as a kid, and his stepdad was an entrepreneur. His father showed Daryl that an entrepreneur was someone who is of service and respected by their community. He wanted to be like that too, so he shovelled driveways and did a newspaper route for money at a young age. Since Daryl was an orphan, he felt the need to be self-sufficient and self-directed. At 17, he joined a company that was one of the early pioneers of early marketing, got interested in growing businesses, and the rest is history. [10:45] Katimavik Daryl was part of Katimavik, a Canadian social program in which ten children aged 17-21 live, travel and work across Canada.   Katimavik was a turning point in Daryl's life.   Daryl initially lived in a dangerous city. Katimavik was his way out.   It was a source of many experiences for Daryl.   [21:52] Youth Development In raising his daughter, Daryl has a thing called neglect under supervision, where he tries to carefully neglect her in some ways to let her develop, grow and overcome obstacles. He won’t stop her from falling, but he’ll try his best to catch her. Growing up in a city is more about surviving in social dynamics than the social and environmental dynamics you find when you grow up on a farm. Children would benefit from more physical activity in their lives. They'd develop differently, and would not feel the need to lash out violently. Children need a better sense of responsibility and consequences — power and skill are earned. [27:17] Lessons from Martial Arts  Martial arts teaches progression: your skills will develop over time, through with observation and training. You learn about people and how your emotions impact decision-making. Martial arts isn’t just about training but also about recovery and rest. The best way to get out of a bad situation is to prevent it from happening. When he first learned martial arts, he thought it was about doing things to people. In reality, it’s about self-control and boundaries. Martial arts also taught Daryl about overcoming obstacles and testing himself. [39:04] The Secret to Building Businesses There are many great places to start, and one of the hardest ones is getting something new going. Always start with a market. Find a problem you’re willing to solve for people. The purpose of a business is to locate a prospect and turn that into a customer who returns. Figure out what problem you want to solve, then design it and do it in a scalable way. The critical success factors for businesses are self-efficacy, strategic planning, marketing, strategy, market intelligence, money management, business operating systems, business intelligence and government and economic factors. [46:05] The Next Level Ask yourself where the customers are and where they want to go. Can you take them there? Fix what makes your customers unhappy, find out how to get busy and aim for consistency. What helps your team grow is documentation and training. Create systems. How do you communicate your vision and keep the team productive? [50:23] Getting Out of the Startup Gate  The hardest part is dealing with the imposter syndrome and self-doubt. It’s all about managing stress and avoiding burnout. Many people sacrifice their health to make money but end up spending all their money trying to get their health back. It is better to collect money first and then develop a product. [56:39] Daryl’s Current Core Focus  Now, Daryl is focused on group coaching. For people who want more dedicated attention, he has a virtual VP of Marketing service. He also has a pay for performance model, where people only have to pay if they make a profit. [1:00:05] On Keywords and Google Trends Keywords can tell you how many people are thinking about this particular thing. Keywords are a powerful tool from a market intelligence standpoint. From keywords, you learn what people are looking for, where they are and more. Make your marketing about your customer. [1:04:03] What You Need to Be an Entrepreneur  Be transparent. People need to trust you for them to give you their money. You’re going to need all eight success factors, but most importantly, answer the question: ‘What problem are you solving’?   7 Powerful Quotes from this Episode ‘Life is full of challenges and hurdles, and through overcoming those we develop our character’. ‘Pain often…makes you stronger and makes you more able to withstand—that’s what exercise is all about. You hurt yourself, you get stronger’. ‘It’s not just training, but it’s also how to recover and rest…Silence is part of music just as much as music is’. ‘Prevention is so much better than cure…the best solution is, don't let them do it to you in the first place. Know it, recognise the signs and protect yourself before it happens’. ‘It’s not even about being the best, the smartest, the brightest. It’s about making the least mistakes’. ‘You don’t know what you’re capable of until you do it’. ‘Evolution is about growth and challenge and overcoming obstacles’.   About Daryl Daryl Urbanski, Founder, President of BestBusinessCoach.ca & Host of The Best Business Podcast is best known for his ability to create seven-figure, automated income streams from scratch. First as Senior Marketing Director for Praxis LLC, now Neurogym, he generated over USD 1.6 Million in under 6 months with a single marketing strategy. This became almost USD 7.5 Million in just under 3 years. After repeating this success with multiple clients, he set on a mission to help create 200 NEW multi-millionaire business owners. How? They’ll do better when they know better. Daryl has quickly climbed the entrepreneurial ladder, gaining respect from thousands of business owners worldwide. From author to speaker, marketer to coach, Daryl's multifaceted business approach sets him apart as one of the leading business experts of his generation.   Enjoy the Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends! Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends, so they overcome the obstacles in their lives or start their own successful businesses. Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts. To pushing the limits, Lisa   Full Transcript Of The Podcast! Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com. Lisa Tamati: You're listening to Pushing The Limits with your host, Lisa Tamati. Thank you once again for joining me. Today I have another exciting podcast with a man named Daryl Urbanski. Now, Daryl is a very well known business coach. So today, quite something different for you. This is all about what it takes to be an entrepreneur. Daryl is also a martial artist. So, he uses a lot of analogies from his sporting as we do in this podcast, from a sporting life and how that helps him in his career and also helping others build businesses. Now, he's helped over 1,000 businesses in his career in 50 different industries, and this guy knows how to grow and scale and overcome problems. So, he's a real expert in this area, and I really enjoyed our conversation.  Before we head over to Daryl in Vietnam, just wanted to remind you, if you're into finding out all about your genes, and what they have to say about you and how you can influence your genes to live your optimal lifestyle and be your best self, then make sure you check out what we do in our Epigenetics Program. So, this is all about understanding your genes and how they are expressing at the moment how the environment is influencing them, and then optimising everything, from your food to your exercise right through to your mindset, your social, your career, all aspects of life are covered in this really revolutionary programme.  Now, this programme is not something that we've put together; this has been put together by literally hundreds of scientists from 15 different science disciplines, all working together for over 20 years to bring this really next level cutting edge information about your genes and how you can find out how to optimise them. No longer do you need trial and error; you can work out what the best diet is, when the best time to eat is, exactly the right foods to eat right down to the level of, 'eat bok choy, don't eat spinach', that type of thing. And as—but it's so much more than just a food and exercise. It also looks at your health and anything that may be troubling you and future and how to deal with it. So, it's a really comprehensive programme, and I'd love you to check it out. You can visit us at lisatamati.com, hit the Work with Us button and you'll see our Epigenetics Program.  We've also got our online run coaching as normal, customised, personalised, run training system, where we make a plan specific to you and to your needs and your goals. And you get a session with me—a one on one session with me and a full video analysis of your running so that we can help you improve your style, your form, your efficiency, plus a full-on plan that includes all your strength training, your mobility workouts, and great community, of course. So make sure you check that out at runninghotcoaching.com.  And the last thing before we go over to the show, I have just started a new venture with Dr Elena Seranova, who is a molecular biologist from the UK, originally from Russia, and she is a expert in autophagy in stem cells, and she has made a supplement called NMN. Now, you may have heard of this nicotinamide mononucleotide. It's a big fancy word, I know. But you will be hearing more about this. It's been on the Joe Rogan show; it's been on Dr Rhonda Patrick show, some big names now talking all about this amazing longevity compound, anti-aging compound. Now, this is based on the work of Dr David Sinclair, who wrote the book, Lifespan: Why We Age and or How We Age and Why We Don't Need To. He is a Harvard Medical School researcher who has been studying longevity and anti-aging and is at the really the world's forefront of all the technologies to do with turning the clock back and who doesn't want to do that?  So I've teamed up with Dr Elena to import nicotinamide mononucleotide, our supplement from NMN bio into New Zealand and Australia. So if you are keen to get your hands on some because this was not available prior in New Zealand, I wanted a reputable company, a place that I could really know that the supplements that I'm getting is quality, that it's been lab-tested, that it was a scientist behind it, a lab behind it, and this is a real deal.  Now, I've been on this now for four months and so as my mom and my husband, and I've noticed massive changes in my life. Certainly, weight loss has been one of those things, that stubborn last couple of kilos that I've been fighting have gone without any muscle loss which has been really very interesting. It improves also cardiovascular health, your memory cognition, the speed of your thinking; all the things that start to decline as you age. And the reason this is happening is because we have declining levels of NAD, another big word, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. And this NMN is a precursor for NAD.  So, lots of big words, lots of science. f you want to find more about that, you can head over to lisatamati.com, under the Shop button, you will find out all about our anti-aging supplement NMN, and we're about to launch a new website which will be nmnbio.nz, but that's not quite up there yet, but it probably is by the time this podcast comes out. So, check that one out to nmnbio.nz, bio, just B-I-O. If you want to stop—well, not completely stop aging, but if you want to slow the clock down and get the best information that's out there then make sure you read Dr David Sinclair's book, Lifespan it's an absolute game-changer. You'll be absolutely amazed at some of the stuff that's happening and what they consider my mononucleotide can already do. So check that out. Okay, without further ado over to the show with Daryl Urbanski.  Lisa Tamati: Well, hi, everyone and welcome back to Pushing The Limits. Today I have the lovely Daryl Urbanski with me who is sitting in Danang in Vietnam. And Daryl, this is gonna be a little bit of a different episode because usually I've got some health science-y thing or some are elite athlete doing—well, not to say that Daryl was not an elite athlete because he is into martial arts. But Daryl’s specialty and what he's come to share with you guys today is, he is a business expert and a marketing expert, and also a mindset expert, I would like to say. So Daryl, welcome to the show. Fantastic to have you.  Daryl Urbanski: Yes, it's an honour and pleasure to be here. We've had some good conversations, like minds, two birds of a feather. Just an honour and a pleasure to be here. Lisa: Yes. Thank you so much, Daryl, for coming on today. So, Daryl and I cross pass by his lovely lady who organises half my life as far as the business side of things goes. So it's been a fantastic liaison. And—but Daryl was actually here on his own accord. And he's—so Daryl, I want you to give us a bit of a brief background, where have you come from, how did you end up in Vietnam? And what do you do for a living? Daryl: Right, so I'm Canadian. So I'm from Canada, travelled all over the world, and I don't know if it's too short. So that's where I come from, I ended up in Vietnam. That's a long story. So I guess I'm Canadian. I'm in Vietnam. I help businesses or websites get customers and keep them to make more money. And that's really kind of it in a nutshell. It's been a long journey.  When I was a kid I was an orphan and my adopted family, actually my step adopted dad's the one that really raised me and his brother, my uncle. We would visit him every time we went to Toronto, and he was a bit of an entrepreneur. He also did some property management in that and every time we went to visit I almost felt like he was kind of like the Godfather. What I meant was people were always coming by with like, a gift basket or to thank him for something. So the impression that was put in my mind was like to be an entrepreneur is to be of service to the community, and to get people's respect and adoration for the good that you're bringing. And that was really like—I know, there's all sorts of different like your salesmen, and everyone's got different images. But that was when I was a young kid, I was like, ‘Wow, I want to be valued by my community, too’. So that really laid an impression on me at a young age.  Again, I didn't have the lemonade stand, I didn't mow lawn, but I did shovel driveways. We have so much snow in Canada in the wintertime. We would shovel driveways for money. I did have a newspaper route. And just at a young age, I just kind of felt, maybe because I was an orphan, but I felt the need to be self-sufficient and self-directed. Yes...  Lisa: How to be your own ship, really.  Daryl: Yes, sort of. Yes, I just—I also had issues like I did air cadets when I was a kid. There's some other kids, they were using their authority outside of cadets to try to, like, lord over people and stuff. And right away, I kind of learned at a young age, you kind of have to be careful—you can manage up, let's just put it that way. It's not just managing down, but you can manage up, and you can choose who's above you too, it's a two-way street. So I really laid an impression on the young age. And then when I was 17, I added a co-op in university with the company called marketme.ca and they were just one of the early pioneers of online marketing. Got me into the whole business growth avenue and that... Lisa: The rest is history. Yes, now that's fabulous. So you from like, in my young years, like I was an entrepreneur from the get-go. I never fit in in anybody's corporate square box. Tried—I tried, I failed. Did you have that feeling like you were just outside of like, you just wanted to be in charge? Because you've been in business, basically, since you were 17 years old. And you've learned a heck of a lot on this massive business journey that you've been on. And you've helped—I know that you've helped over 1,000 businesses in 50 plus industries. And you've really grown into this role of helping businesses scale up and grow and develop your own systems around this.  But did you have an idea when you were that 17-year old that this was where you were going, and this is the direction? Or has it sort of meandered throughout time? Daryl: No, I was—because I think I had a lot of, they say, like everything, I'm not maybe everything that I am and not knowing my biological roots, and that as a kid left me really to kind of be given the path of self-discovery, you could say from a young age. A lot of confusion, maybe anger in my younger years as well. But what really made the difference, at least in the earliest days, was that when I was 17, I ended up at Canadian government programme called Katimavik, which means ‘meeting places’. Inuit, which a lot of people call them Eskimos. But now we say the people of the North, the natives of the North they’re Inuit, which means snow people. Eskimo means meat-eater or flesh-eater. So they don't like being called Eskimos, you call them Inuit, but Katimavik is an Inuit word, and it means ‘meeting place’. And it's a government programme that's been on and off over the last 40-50 years in Canada.  And really what the—when I did it with the terms of the programme where it's a social programme sponsored by the government, 17 to 21-year-old youth, and then what they do is they put a group of 10 kids together, and the group of 10 kids is supposed to represent Canada. So, what that means is that they grab some from the east coast, the west coast from up north they try to make it, so it's representative. Like we had half guys have girls. French, we have three French speakers, right? Then the English speakers. We had an Inuit guy Kenny, who when he came, he actually didn't even speak English. We always knew when the phone was for Kenny because we didn't—it all be like, '[mumbles] Kenny this is for you, I don't know what's happening, either it's a bad connection, or this is someone who talks in their language'.  And that programme, what we did—when I did it was we spent three months in British Columbia, three months in Alberta, and three months in Quebec and in every province, there was a house. In that house, there is a project manager, project leader... Lisa: Wow. Daryl: ...basically he was someone that would go to the house, and they were there, the whole duration of the programme. And this isn't a pitch for the programme, but I feel like it was—my life was really before and after.  Lisa: Wow. Daryl: Because life skills I got from this...  Lisa: That's cool.  Daryl: ...so every place would have a project leader, and they would organise full-time work for all ten kids. And you were like a volunteer full-time worker, and in exchange, the government and I think this businesses may be paid a reduced hourly wage, I don't really know the details of it. But you worked for free, and in exchange, the government paid your grocery bills, they paid your rent and your travel expenses, and you got 20 bucks a week for like toothpaste and whatever else you wanted. And that was—it was a fantastic programme. I learned so much when I was in Alberta and British Columbia. I worked at a native band office, which is in Canada, we have a lot of native land, and that's land, like, we were the original immigrants. We took over the landmass, and then we gave the natives, ‘This is your land’, and so it's like a country within a country, and a band office is like their government office.  Lisa: Right. Daryl: So, I actually worked at an Indian band office, Similkameen Valley band office and Iwe helped build sweat lodges. We did all sorts of stuff. I work there newsletter, helped communicate with the community. In Alberta, I was a seventh-grade teacher's assistant at a middle school, and a social worker assistant and I worked with a librarian as well. And then in Quebec, I was actually a mayor's assistant for three small town, 150 people. But you had a full-time job in each place, and then after work when you came home, the 10 of you were basically instantly signed up for any community events that were going on.  I remember in the small town of Karamea we built something like 20 out of the 25 of their Christmas floats for their Christmas parade. We did soup kitchens, music festivals, like, you name it, and there's just like, instantly—if there was something out of the community like the project leader would know about it and just drag us, and we just show up be like, 'Hey', and it was like ten pairs of hands. Like just we were coming just to make things happen.  So every three months, you had a full-time job, evenings and weekends, except for Sunday. You basically anything in the community, you were instantly signed up as a volunteer, and every two and for two weeks, every three month period, you would build it, you would stay with a local family for two weeks to like, see how they live. And that was really insightful because I didn't know any other family or how the family operated. But then I got to see inside the workings, like,  I remember this one family, I stayed with the three, the parents, the father was in finance, and he was always, like, his suit and his hair's so proper. He was very strict and very like this. And his kids on the other side, they had like mohawks, spike collars and black nails and eyes. And it was so funny because I felt like it was a yin yang. I felt like the kids were the exact opposite in the extreme of the parents, and just watching the dynamics of people. And also every week, a boy and a girl would stay home from their full-time jobs, and they would be the mum and dad in the house because we had a budget like for groceries and they would have to cook and clean. So that nine months experience when I was 17, I came out of that with more life experience than a lot of people and… Lisa: What an incredible programme and how lucky...  Daryl: Yes. Lisa: ...for you, like, because so many kids go off the rails, as they say at that point yet, and they get lost and to have the sort of a structure of development and experience must have been a real game-changer for you. Daryl: Yeah, I mean, we moved around a bit when I was a kid, but we ended up settling in a city called Kingston, Ontario, which also happened to be the penitentiary capital of Canada. And so it was a unique community because you've got Queen's University, which is one of the top three universities of Canada. You've got the second-largest military base. It's almost one of the largest government employment cities. So you've got these high-income earners in the public sector, and then you've also got this great university. Some of the largest businesses out of Canada, actually, even in Kingston, like we've got one of the largest real estate investment trusts. There's a company that makes the shafts for all the pro golf clubs outside of Kingston. It's kind of weird, you got these unique massive spikes of success. But then because of the penitentiaries, a lot of families move to Kingston to be closer to the family. So then you have these areas where there's like when you get out of jail, you just settle in the town that you're in, and so it's weird, and I actually didn't think I was gonna see my 21st birthday.  Lisa: Wow. Daryl: I was in high school, and I didn't—I had a friend that was found in a lake rolled in a carpet...  Lisa: Oh, gosh. Daryl: ...and things like that. And I didn't think I was really gonna make it.  Lisa: So, really dangerous areas to be growing up as a youth. Daryl: But then, I always say when you live in a city, you don't live in that city, you live in your bubble in that city. So my bubble was mixed. It was a mixed bag. I was in the middle—I grew up in a nice suburb, but through school and all that, I got involved with lots of different things. But in this group one day, they spoke at my high school, and they're talking about, 'Yo, we're getting to travel Canada for free'. Like, I was like, 'Hey, that sounds great. I need to get out of here. I don't see a future. I don't see a future', and I signed up and that was what I did. And then after that because of being involved and so I almost got kicked out.  Now, after the first two months, I was on my last warning, you get three warnings, and you get sent home. And every time you make them, you have to write a commitment to improve. And I was like, I just thought I think that project leader didn't like me, but I was like, on it by a hair. And it was so funny because I remember when I made the first three months, we moved to the second location, I was like, 'Wow even if I get kicked out now. Now I've learned everything that I could learn from this programme'. Three months, Alberta and I met all sorts of new people and new experiences. And I was like, 'Wow, I made it to six months. Now that I'm going to Quebec, now I've learned everything, I mean, so good'. And then the next three months, and then I finished it like, 'Wow, I made it to the end. Now I've learned...  Lisa: You're an expert. Daryl: ...programme, right. But now here it is years and years later, and I met because they were like family, the other ten kids, right? And I still catch up with them every now and then, like I learned through, 'Why? You got a kid? You got three kids'? Lisa: In other words, we all say we're no’s all the time. And then we're actually just at the beginning of our next journey.  And it's all stepping stones to the next part of learning and stuff. But what a fantastic I wish we had a programme like that here because I mean, it must cost a lot to run and be really difficult to organise. But man, they could change lives, say for kids who are just lost and don't quite know what's the next step and how many of them are be. Daryl: It's a fantastic programme. It's actually I don't think it's running in Canada anymore. Again, because of the cost that it gets government funding, it gets taken away. The Trudeau lineage is the one that started—they tend to be behind it. There was a big scandal in Canada 'we something charity' and it sounds like that they were going to give a billion dollars in one organisation that does something like that. But of course, it got into, like, where's money going and people arguing and is that a good use and I think nothing happened at it. But it's a shame because... Lisa: It changes your life. Daryl: Well, I think right now there's a ton of people, especially the younger kids who need a sense of responsibility. I think in some ways, I don't want to go on a big rant. But I think life is full of challenges and hurdles. And it's like, through overcoming those we develop our character. And some people, they just have such a cushy like...  Lisa: Yes.  Daryl: .Things have become so politically correct. We've softened all the hard edges. I remember seeing in Toronto, they replaced a bunch of the kids playgrounds, because kids were falling and getting hurt.  Lisa: Yes, yes.  Daryl: Like, yes, but that's, like, you climb a tree, you fall, like, you don't... Lisa: There's no consequence to anything anymore. And there's no, like, yes. Daryl: It's like participation awards versus achievement awards. Like, we really, in some ways, become a society of participation awards versus achievement awards. And that's... Lisa: I totally get it. I totally agree. Because I mean, I'm showing my age, but I grew up in the early 70s and stuff, and it was a rough ride. I'm lucky to be alive. Daryl: Not everyone. Not everyone made it in adulthood. Yes. Lisa: And, but you know what, I wouldn't change that for the world because I don't want to be wrapped up in cotton wool and bounce around like a bunch of marshmallows for the want of a better expression. I want to be able to climb trees and cycle. I had to laugh yesterday. We live in a little village that, sort of, no police around here. And you've got all sorts in, and it's a lovely village, it's a sort of a beachy resort-y place. But you get the kids, they got no helmets on, and the other ones are on scooters, and there's three of them hanging off it and other people with their youths, and the kids are on the back, which is all illegal, right?  Daryl: Right. Lisa: And I'm not saying it is good, but I do have to smile because it reminds me of my childhood because that's where... Daryl: A little bit recklessness, a little bit of foolishness. We don't want it, but the world has real limits.  Lisa: Yes. Daryl: And especially as a parent, like I have a daughter now and it's like, I call it careful neglect. I try to carefully neglect her in some ways to force her to develop and grow.  Lisa: Beautiful. Daryl: It's like neglect under supervision, that's probably the best way to do it. Because if I always do it for her, and then I'm not there like they say kids who grew up with a single parent tend to be more independent than kids that have two parents, although kids with two parents tend to do better overall. I want a blend of that. The kids with single parents, they are more independent because that's expected of them. There's not all—you can't...  Lisa: backup.  Daryl: It's not all the swaddling.  Lisa: Yes, no, I totally agree. And like, not even just for kids, but like dealing with my mum with her disability, I had to—and people would criticise me heavily, but I used—I make her do the hard stuff. Like, if she's struggling to get out of a chair at night and she's tired I don't get up to help her and not because I'm an asshole but because I need her to learn which muscle it is to push and people would, like when we're out in public that'd be standing there watching me watch her struggling and I'd get abuse sometimes. Like, ‘why aren't you helping’? Daryl: Yes, yes. Lisa: That's all I'm doing. I have to do it all the time with her because I'm teaching her new difficult tasks all the time. I'm having to put her through some painful regimes and training. And because I've been an athlete all my life, I understand that pain often, when in training, in difficult training sessions and stuff make you stronger, and make you more able to withstand. I mean, that's what exercise is all about: you hurt yourself, you get stronger, you hurt yourself, you get stronger. And with mum's training, it's very often like that. So okay, she's not a kid, but it's the same principle. I have to let her go.  Or winching out when she got her driver's license, and I would let her drive my car and go around town. I mean, I'm still panicking half the time, a nice—and for the start, I would shadow her, like from behind. She didn't know that I was following her way right through the town where she went so that she had that backup. But she didn't know she had that backup. Daryl: As I actually had been saying that to Kathy, but my daughter, I'm like, I won't stop her from falling, but I'll do my best to always catch her.  Lisa: Yes. Daryl: I'm not gonna try to stop because sometimes you're like, 'Your daughter and you try to pad the room'. And I'm like, 'I gave her a pair of scissors'. This is when she was really young, gave her scissors, 'Don't, she'll cut herself', and I'm like, 'Yes, and it'll be a valuable lesson'. 'You're right'. And I'm right here, and it'll be a vet ship. She'll learn a valuable lesson; I don't know if she doesn't, I feel like that's partially where we have things like all these school shootings and that. These kids aren't growing up on farms. They've never been kicked by a horse or a goat, or they've never hit themselves in the foot with an axe. So they playing these video games of extreme violence and sexual violence in the movies and they feel these emotions, like really common as a teenager. They have access to such powerful tools.  I'm Canadian, but in the States, they sell guns at Walmart and so you've got a kid that's angry, he's got no real sense of the reality of the world around him in terms of like, what happens if you fall out of a tree and break your ankle, that's so distant because they grew up in a city and it's just, it's more just surviving and social dynamics versus a social and environmental dynamic.  Lisa: I totally agree. Daryl: And I go to school, and they lash out with guns, I really feel that if those kids grew up with more hard labour in their lives, more physical—even if they just had more physical training conditioning. You play hockey, you get hit too hard, like something like that, it would have less school shootings because they still feel the same emotions, but one, they'd have different outlets, and they would also kind of respect it better. It's like my jujitsu. You mentioned I do jujitsu.  Lisa: Yes. Daryl: I feel like it's very—when you guys are new, you get a lot of these strong guys, and they try to tough on everybody. And they just, it's useless. And they get beaten up by the more skilled ones. So then when they develop skill, they're kind of like a 'Hey, like, I know what it's like to be the one getting beaten up'. Lisa: Yes. Which is the correct method. Daryl: Like, the power, the skill is earned. So, you treat it with better respect. Lisa: Humility is always a good thing. And I think learning.. I've taken up skimboarding with you, and I don't bounce very well at 52. But it's really important that I do something that I'm really useless at.and I'm having to learn a new skill. And I sometimes ski myself because if I don't get the stage, that's when you start losing those skills. And I don't want to lose any of my abilities, and I've still got good reactions and stuff like that, so I want to keep them. So I constantly want to push myself outside that boundary.  So let's dive in a little bit to your martial arts, and then we'll get onto your business side of things because what you've done the years is just incredible. What sort of lessons have you learned—I mean, that was one—but what sort of lessons have you learned from doing Jiu Jitsu in the discipline that's required for this very tough sport? Daryl: Yes, that's great. So yes, I did jujitsu for about six, seven, maybe eight years. I haven't trained, probably in a couple years now. I've been doing more kind of CrossFit and my own physical training, but I think the lessons are through any—you learn about progression over time. You learn things like the fundamentals are fundamental. You kind of learn the basics, but then you get bored with those, and you want to learn the fancy, advanced stuff, but then it's hard to apply it and get it to work. And then through just time and observation and training with the greatest you understand it really is about the fundamentals. Virtue is doing the common uncommonly well.  The fundamentals that we learned are the stuff that's actually working against the highest level black belts. The basics that you learn, you see that happen at the highest level World Championships in the biggest competitions, and the really great to the ones that can do the basics and just walk through everyone with them. Like, 'How are they able to do that so well'? Everybody knows what's happening. Everyone knows what to expect, but they can't stop it from happening anyhow.  Another lesson was it's a game of inches in the beginning because jujitsu is kind of like a submission wrestling, submission grappling.It's not so much punch and kick.It's more about pull, roll, and just and using things like gravity. So there's things about drilling how practise makes perfect. You learned the rule, like 10,000 hours that it's if I've been training for 200 hours, and you've been training 10 hours, generally speaking, I have a major advantage. If I've been training 2000 hours, you've been training 100 hours, typically speaking, I'm gonna just mop the floor with you because I've—there's nuance detail and you can almost endlessly drill into the fundamentals.  And then there's just the progress. You've talked about learning new skills. Last year, I learned how to handstand walk. I can now handstand walk about 20 feet, I'm gonna be 38 in a couple of months.  Lisa: Wow, I can't do that.  Daryl: Yes.  Lisa: I'm jealous. Daryl: It’s specifically for the skill development, for the neurological developments, to like to balance in a totally different way and physical development. So I mean, you just see you learn about people, you learn about how your emotions impact your decision making in certain respects. You learn about how it's not just training, but it's also how to recover and rest. And we talked about this I think before I interviewed you for my podcast, like, silence is part of music just as much as music is, the difference is it's intentional. Lisa: Yes. Daryl: Silences, intention. So it's about doing things with intent. Taking a concept like I want to learn and get good at this and breaking into pieces. And I was talking about this to my friend yesterday. Actually, I forget how it came up. But he's talking about something, and work, and the situation, and how to avoid, and I remember I was training and I was fortunate to do some training with Rickson Gracie in my early parts of my training career, legendary fighter guy.  And I remember I kept getting caught in these triangle chokes. Triangle choke is a type of choke. And I kept getting caught in these triangle chokes. I remember asking, like, 'How do I get out of it'? He says, 'Well, don't let them put you into it'. I'm like, 'Yes, I know. But I already got into it. Now what do I do'? he's like, 'Don't let them put you into it'. And I just wanted—I wanted the cure, and I was like, 'Yes, but I want it' and there are, there's some things you can do. But the real answer is...  Lisa: Prevention Daryl: ...prevention is so much better than cure. Like, well it's good... Lisa: Great principle. Daryl: You're in it, like, you gotta panic, you got two or three options, you got to panic, you're gonna spend a lot of energy, you're gonna flail and struggle, it's gonna be close. We can talk about how to do it. But really, the best solution is, don't let them do it to you in the first place. Note and recognise the signs and protect yourself before it happens. Lisa: That is a great law for the whole of the health paradigm that I live under. Daryl: Yes. How do I deal with heart problems?  Lisa: Prevention, prevention.  Daryl: Prevention. Yes, exactly. And you know proactivity. Lisa: Yes, occasionally,you will still get caught out and you will still and then you want to know those tricks. But in the first line, let's learn prevention and then we'll look at how do we get out of this mess? Daryl: And another really—which kind of ties in and then we can if you want to move on, move on. But this one, I think is also really, really, really important. When I first learned martial arts, I always thought it was about doing things to other people, I'm going to do this too, or I'm going to use your leverage against you. I'm gonna do this to the world. What I've really realised is two things. One, it's not even necessarily about doing things. It's about two things it's about not doing things externally, it's about self-control. It's about boundaries.  So we just talked about 'Don't let him put you into it'. That means that I have to have boundaries around things. Will I let him grab me here? Well I’ll not allow that. Well, I let him grab me there. And I'll be like, 'Okay, whatever. And I'm going to try to do some'. So again, when people start and forgive me, I don't want to go on a huge long rant on this. But when you start, I'm going to do this to you, going to do that to you and I'm trying to do this...  Lisa: You got to be kidding. Daryl: ...and so I don't even care what you're doing to me. When you get—later, it's like what do I accept? What are my boundaries?  Lisa: Wow.  Daryl: What situations do I let myself enter into? And that was—and then the other thing is that a lot of times it's not about what you do. It's not even about winning. It's about who makes the fewest mistakes.  Lisa: Wow.  Daryl: It's really—it's not even about being the best, the smartest, the brightest. It's about making the least mistakes.  Lisa: Wow... Daryl: In this situation, how many doors do I open for my opponent?  Lisa: I totally...  Daryl: These things are great, right?  Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. Daryl: There’s just me posing on the world and more about controlling myself.  Lisa: Yes.  Daryl: And am I allowing myself to be manipulated this way? Am I allowing myself to be grabbed here? Am I allowing his energy to mess with my mindset? Lisa: Wow, that is gold. Daryl: In a tournament, I've seen them lose the match before it even begins. Get you two guys step up, and the rest get in there, and they like their eyeballing on each other.  Lisa: Yes. Daryl: You see one guy like and he's just kind of coward. Like he lost before we even get started. So... Lisa: I haven’t seen that in ultramarathons are—another sporting analogy, but I've seen when people start bargaining with themselves and you do during an ultra. You start saying, 'Well, if I just get to there, I'll be happy with my results’. Or if you start to negotiate with yourself as how far you can get. And when I'm when I see people going, 'Well, I've at least done more than I've ever done before and therefore it's a success'. And when I start to hear talk like that, I know we're in the battle, like we are in the battle. And if they don't change the mindset, they're not going to because they're no longer in that, 'I'm gonna do this, come hell or high water there in the' Well, it's okay to fail and it is okay to fail. But in the battle, you don't want to be in that mindset. You want to be in that mindset, like, 'I'm going for this and I'm giving it everything I have.’  When you start to negotiate with yourself where ‘It would be okay if I got to that point, and therefore this is the longest I've ever run and therefore that's still a success'. When you start doing that type of bargaining with yourself, you're in deep shit basically because you've got to tune your psychology around too because otherwise, you're going to give yourself a way out.  I remember when I was running in the 220k race in the Himalayas that extreme altitude and I had a point where I just completely broke after going up the second path, and it was about—I'd been out there for 40 plus hours in a massive snowstorm. I had hypothermia. I had altitude sickness, asthma. I was just completely good enough reasons to be pulling out. And one of my guys came back to me, and I said, 'I think it's only two kilometres to the top of the mountain because you're calculating in your head'. And he came back and said, 'No, it's six kilometres to go'. And that just completely broke my mentality because six kilometres, I was going out 3k an hour, it was two hours of hell, and I couldn't, and it broke me. And I just fell into a heap and started bawling my eyes out, and everybody was giving me permission to give up. They were like, huddling around, 'You're amazing. We're so proud of you and you did everything you could', and then there was one guy. And he came over, and he shocked me, and he wasn't smiling, and he wasn't patting me on the back, and he was like, ‘Get the F up now’.  Daryl: You're so close. Lisa: ‘You're so close, you're not failing, and I'm not letting you fail and get your ass up off the ground. And I'm going to stay here with you. And I'm going to walk you up top of that mountain’. And that was key because it got me over that psychological break—I broke, but he picked me up, and he got me back on my feet. And I followed his instructions. I just did what he told me to do, put one foot in front of the other, and he got me over that hump, literally. And it's this type of stuff that you learn through sports; it's just so valuable. Daryl: It's just overcoming obstacles and just testing yourself. You don't know what you're capable of until you do it. You can spend all day reading a book about tennis, but until you're out there actually playing it. And there's learning you have to learn, you can learn through reading through lecture through conversation, personal experiences, and through other people's experiences and that's... Lisa: That's what this is about. Daryl: Yes, I mean Alan Watts has this great video called The Dream of Life. Imagine if every night you went to sleep, you could dream, however many years of life that you wished and because it's your dream, you can make them as wonderful as you want it. And so for the first—let's say you're dreaming 100 years of life every night. And maybe you do this for a couple of years, every night for a few years, you're dreaming 100 years of life. And all these lives that you're living, they're all the most filled with all the pleasures and all the wonderful things that you could possibly want. And what do you think would happen? And over time, you would kind of get bored, and you would want some risk and some adversity. And then eventually, you would want to be able to dream and go to sleep, and not know the outcome. ‘I want to go to sleep. I want to have this adventure, but I don't want to know the outcome’.  And that's kind of like that's almost like life. And if you could dream a lifetime every night in your—in a life of eighty years, you could possibly dream the life you're living right now. And that's the whole thing of evolution. Evolution is about growth and challenge and overcoming obstacles and... Lisa: Yes, obstacles like phone calls coming in the middle of your podcast.  Daryl: But, we got—everyone’s with me. Lisa: I think people listening to my podcasts are quite used to interruption. You just cannot stop the world from functioning half the time like somebody's phone is somewhere.  Daryl: Murphy's Law, you just gotta keep on recording. If you wait for perfection, it's never gonna happen.  Lisa: Exactly. You could panic now and start editing for Africa or another way, you could just get it out there and apologise for what happened, which we'll do. So, Daryl, I want to move now because I think there was absolutely brilliant and really insightful.  I want to move into the business side of things. And you've had a really successful business. You've taken lots of businesses to the million-dollar in a plus businesses from scratch, you've done that over and over again. You've helped people scale up and develop these systems and mine the data and work out all this complicated world of online, which is I'd struggle with daily so I want to know from you, how the heck do you do this? And what are some of your greatest secrets from building businesses over a long period of time now? Daryl: That's a great question. There's a lot of different places to start; I think one of the hardest places and where I've had the most failure myself is getting something new going because well, one, it's just not my superpower. But if you've got someone that's got a proven concept, and that's really how in the beginning, I should look it up.  But I got my seven-step rollout system. It's like you always start with a market first. So that means you always have to start with a need and or want so because you can't—the idea of selling ice to Eskimos. It's not about doing mental gymnastics and pushing something on someone that they don't want. That might happen in the world. There might be people that invest a lot of time, energy and resources in that but I have no interest. It's really tough to be like I'm gonna generate this demand. It's not there. The demand already exists. People already want to feel beautiful, people already want to be entertained, people already want to travel and to explore the world. So these needs and wants and that already exists. The idea is that you want to stand in front of it. The demand and want is already there and it's constantly evolving. And every time someone a business comes out, and you create a new product or service to fix a problem there'll be a new problem.  Lisa: Yes.  Daryl: Because now, like before the internet, the issue was how are we going to have these conversations like we can? You’re New Zealand, I'm in Vietnam, how will we do this? Well, now Zoom is created. These companies created tool, and they created tool. And now here's Zoom, but then what's the next issue? And then what's the next problem? So problems are markets, not demographics.  Lisa: Oh, wow. Daryl: Not demographics, the problem is a market. This is the problem that we solve for people. Once you've got that a lot of it—for me, it's like different ways that you can go, but the purpose of business is to locate a prospect, turn that prospect into a customer and then make a customer your friend.  Lisa: Yes. Daryl: It's really a big part of it. It's tough to have a business survive. There are businesses that survive off one-time sales, but the vast majority of businesses need recurring business, recurring freight, ongoing relationships. And a lot of businesses aren't thinking about how to do that. And so, your business is a service to the world. And so the first thing you have to figure out on a small scale, ‘What problem do I solve’? And when you solve a problem, you kind of need to create, I call it a black box. This black box maybe is a mystery to the outside world; we can use a dentist's office people come in crying and in pain on one side, they go through the black box, which is a series of checklists, checklists for this, checklist for that, checklist for next thing, okay, check that we did this, this, this, this is this, boom, they leave smiling and happy on the other side. So that's the black box. That's the problem-solving box. Lisa: Wow.  Daryl: The problem-solving box, all the company is one group of people solving a problem for another group of people via a product or service.  Lisa: Wow.  Daryl: Before that problem is, and you've got it, now you need to design it. Here's some people solve problems really well, but they don't do it in a way that's scalable. So the rule of 10,000. Now I know how to solve the problem. Now I know THE kind of the type of people having that problem. How do I solve 10,000 of these problems for people, think, if I had to bake a pie if I'm trying to bake one pie versus bake 10,000 pies... Lisa: It's going to be more efficient. Daryl: there's a different mindset that you got like, I need a bigger kitchen, I got to do that. You've got like planning in batches, and food storage, it changes the nature of things. And then you got to kind of go out and find those people and that's like a marketing function.  So there's—actually, I can share this. So last year, I actually spent like $40,000 hiring all these research teams to help get down to what are the critical success factors for small and medium-sized businesses?  Lisa: Wow. Daryl: We came up with eight, there's actually nine, but the ninth one is government and economic factors. And it's not realistic that a person is going to influence.  Lisa: No.  Daryl: Not one person.  Lisa: Yes.  Daryl: No, it's not realistic. So the ones that we can influence is things like self-efficacy, which means your ability to be effective with your time, your energy, just yourself and through others. So it's like leadership is part of that, right? Your time management is part of that like mindset might be part of that. But self-efficacy, strategic planning, marketing strategy, market intelligence. So these are different market intelligence is understanding the needs, wants desires, problems of the people of the marketplace, and the competitors, the available options.  So it's market intelligence is like, what's going on out there? And then marketing strategy is how am I going to get my message across. Then you have sales skills and strategies, sales strategy. And then you have money management. You have business operating systems, which is—it could be technology, it could be simple checklists, it could be meeting rhythms, it could be a hiring process, that's the operating systems.  And then you've got business intelligence, and business intelligence is like the awareness of different things. So for example, like you are working with my partner, Kathy. She's helping you with your podcasts, you're getting greater awareness on how many downloads are we getting and how many people are sharing the downloads and how many people are listening and then coming my way—that's all business intelligence stuff.  Daryl: It's the idea of not just doing activities, but to actually measure… Right. But it needs to be aware. It’s like wearing a heart rate monitor, right? Like how's my—that's an intelligence system. How's my heart rate doing? How's my heart rate variability?  Lisa: Yes. I do all of that.  Daryl: What's my sleep pattern?  Lisa: Yes. Daryl:  Am I waking up twenty nights? That's like business intelligence. Those eight factors really are the critical make or break focus points for business.  Lisa: Wow. Daryl: And anything that you would do for a business should back into one of those. So, team building activity. Well, that's kind of self-efficacy, maybe operating systems, it depends. You're going to do a podcast, well, that's a marketing strategy, right? And then the strategic planning is the plan strategically of how you're going to pull the strings together. And like, we know how you plan you develop, how you plan to meet people, is there a thought process and from all this stuff? Lisa: And the hard thing is for the young entrepreneurial. I know we have a lot of people who, in business, starting businesses, or in developed businesses and wanting to scale further. You’re wearing so many hats at the beginning, like you're in charge of all of those departments if you like, and that is the very hard thing at the beginning. Once you get a team around you like we're at a stage now where we have small teams that are helping us with different aspects of what we do, and we're trying to outsource the stuff we're not good at. It's not our specialty, because we don't want to waste... But at the beginning, you have to do it all. And so you're just constantly wearing these multitasking hats and not being very efficient.  Daryl: Right. Lisa: How do people get to that next rung on the ladder? And this is something that where we've been backwards and forwards going on for a long time. How do you get to the next stage? And how do you make an effective team? And how do you outsource certain things, but not the other things? And it's getting to that next level, isn't it?  Daryl: Yes. Lisa: And at the beginning, you just forbought everything.  Daryl: If you've been doing a lot of activity, and you're not really sure what's working, a simple way to think about this is forget Uber and Grab and these other...  Lisa: Yes, this huge...  Daryl: Originally, if you were a cab driver, you would have a car, and your idea first figure out where are the people who need to be driven places and then pay money to do it. Maybe it's taking kids to school, maybe it's picking people up at the train station, or the bus station or the airport, maybe it's doctor's office appointments, right? Like every week for whatever.  But first, if you were the taxi driver, first, you'd have to figure out, how do I keep my schedule full every day? How do I keep myself busy every day? And so first, it's where are the customers? And where do they want to go? Right? Where are the customers and where they want to go? Can I take them there? You get paid in size over the relationship, and the problem you solve. What that means is if I want to get across town, but I have all day to do it, I can walk, right? But if I'm in a hurry, if my child is sick, and they're bleeding, and I got to get in the hospital in half the time, that's a bigger problem. I'll pay whatever, right? I can rent a car, I could bike, right? If I don't want to rent a car, I could pay more to have someone, you get what I'm saying?  Lisa: Yes. Daryl: I could pay someone to drive me. So there's a scale of problems. So first, like, where are the customers? What do they need? Where do they want to go? And then how do you get yourself busy? Now that you're busy what's going to happen is now you have to do is you have to train someone and had it on quality control. How do I deliver this consistently? What is my doing? Because when you do something for someone, why—what's making people really happy? What's making them not happy? Right? How do I make sure I have a consistent good experience for people? Good.  Now, how do I help more people? And then if you're the cab driver, you might have to take a pay cut? Because at some point, you might have to bring someone in and have them drive the car for half the day. Lisa: So you can focus on the business. Yes, yes.  Daryl: You can focus on getting another car and getting that. And so there's this weird period where it's like, 'Hey, I'm busy full time, but I can't be any busier'. So I can charge more money, or I'm going to hire someone, give them some of the work.  Lisa: Yes. Big portion of the money. Daryl: Right. They're gonna take a pint of the money. And now I'm going to get the second part going. And that's actually how Kathy got started. So Kathy is working with you. And one of the beginning she had some clients online, and I was like, 'What do you like doing the most? What's the one thing that you think you can do a lot of? And she really enjoys the writing component', and so we got her really busy. And then she hired someone, and then right? And then she was busy, and they're busy, she hired another person. And she had another person on now she had like a team of six, she's got some, like 26 people now. But in the beginning, she had like four or five, six, 'Hey, now you need a manager'. 'Okay, well, now I need a manager', okay, and that's your manager for the team and the next problem and building that out. And that's a really natural way to grow.  And part of what helps you do that is documentation and training, an edge explained, demonstrate, guide, and power. First, explain how you do it. Let me demonstrate it for you. So you can see it done. And then let me guide you in doing it with you. And then I'm going to empower you to do it on your own, make some mistakes and learn from them, and just repeat that process.  Lisa: Wow. Daryl: So it's an edge thing. And that's creating documentations and systems. But then you've got to actually keep—now you're getting into a different level. How do you communicate a vision? How do you keep a team productive? How do you monitor progress? How do you—because we're talking about self-efficacy, right? If you hire someone that could be brilliant, but if they don't get the work done, and now you're getting into people skills, and how do I communicate? And how do I help them tap into their own internal motivation? So they're not just showing up, clicking on the paycheck, and just clocking out, going home just on their phone all day. So these are different tiers of problems that people fall into. So I don't know if I read a whole of... Lisa: No, these are perfect, Daryl, and it does highlights here. There's always the next level. Daryl: Crazy amounts of entrepreneurship.  Lisa: No, but, like getting out of the startup gates is the hardest part and you dealing also with self-doubt and imposter syndrome often, and can I do this? And people telling you you can’t. Your family members or friends going, 'What the hell are you doing? And you've tucked in your regular job for this'? And you know, that 80% or more of businesses fail. I can't remember what the statistics were, but they're pretty horrific. And you're wearing all these hats. And what you then see is a lot of people starting to burn out. And that's really like part of what we do is all about managing stress and not burning out and how’s the basics of health because you need to do all that in order to be successful because there's no use having millions of dollars in the bank, but you are dead because that isn't going to help anybody. Daryl: I've seen that. I've seen people sacrifice—I see people make money and keep their health at the same time. But I've also seen a lot of people sacrifice their health to make money and then end up spending all that money trying to get their health back. Lisa: To get their health back. And I must admit like I've—not for the—just for the business but saying in rehabilitating mum cost me my health. I ended up nose diving because you're working 18 hour-days sometimes and you just go and helpful either trying to make the mortgage payments at the same time by the hyperbaric chambers, or the whatever she needs and trying to rehabilitate, and running all these juggling balls that we all have in various combinations. And you can't work yourself into the absolute—into the grave if you're not careful. And that's why health and resilience and stress reduction and stuff is what we do. Daryl: Yes, it's always best to have people—one of the biggest—and I've done this before, I've done this a couple of times, unfortunately. Better to collect money first and then develop a product. What I mean is like in my hometown, they're opening up a gym, and they were building, they bought this building, they were kind of doing rentals on the inside, and they set up a trailer outside. And they were actively marketing and were signing up people for the gym that was not yet finished being built...  Lisa: Brilliant  Daryl: ...so they're not yet open. And what happened was at some point, they just closed down the whole operation and left. And what it was is they had a pre-launch goal for themselves. ‘We need to generate this many new members in order to breakeven, or we stop’. And that's a really good thing, and you don't, it's like if you just get pre-orders, Elon Musk did this with, I thin

Novak Djokovic put on a masterclass in power and precision to overwhelm Daniil Medvedev in the Australian Open final and clinch his 18th grand slam title.The match had all the hallmarks of a classic, in particular after a stunning opening set from both men, but the Serb world No. 1 soon put his foot down and raced to a 7-5 6-2 6-2 win in less than two hours.Victory secures a record-extending ninth Australian Open title for Djokovic, who is now just two grand slams behind the all-time record of 20 jointly held by Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer.Based on today's performance, there will be very few betting against him to one day equal -- or perhaps even surpass -- that marker.While the match itself perhaps ended as somewhat anticlimactic, the post-match interviews were anything but and showed the deep respect and admiration these two players have for each other."Just to tell you a small story guys," Medvedev said. "I first practiced with Novak when I was 500 in the world or 600 in the world in Monaco and he was already world No. 1, had just won Wimbledon. I thought: 'Okay, he's not going to speak to me' or something because the guy was a god for me."I came there and because I was shy I didn't speak, so he was asking me questions, talking to me like a friend. I was really surprised and it never changed since I was 600 in the world or four in the world. You're a great sport and great person, so congrats."Djokovic replied: "I would like to return the nice words to Daniil. First of all, class act. You're a great guy, great person ... We used to spend more time together, we used to practice more in Monaco -- you're not calling me anymore the last few years! But it's nice to see that you're thinking good things about me, thank you so much."I really like Daniil as a person off the court. He's great, always very friendly, very outgoing but on the court he's definitely one of the toughest players that I ever faced in my life. It's a matter of time when you're going to hold a grand slam that's for sure ... but if you don't mind waiting a few more years."No changing of the guardThis was a fascinating matchup between intergenerational talents, with 33-year-old Djokovic representing tennis' all-conquering old guard and 25-year-old Medvedev the up-and-coming stars that hope to one day dethrone the Serb and his peers.Based on Sunday's final, that day still looks some way off.Coming into the match, Medvedev had reason to be confident. The world No. 4 was on a 20-game winning streak and is only the sixth active player to achieve the feat, joining Djokovic, Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, Andy Murray and Juan Martin del Potro.But Djokovic looked imperious from the get-go, breaking Medvedev in his opening service game and twice holding his own with ease to race into a 3-0 lead. However, playing in only his second grand slam final compared to Djokovic's 28th, Medvedev's early nerves soon dissipated and he quickly settled into his rhythm.The turning point in the early stages came as the pair exchanged a stunning 28-shot rally, with Djokovic dumping his final shot into the bottom of the net to gift the Russian break point. Medvedev duly capitalized with some stunning defensive play to force Djokovic into another error and the first set was soon level.Just minutes earlier, it felt as though the Serb would race away with the opening set, but suddenly the momentum was with Medvedev.The pair went toe to toe until Medvedev was serving to stay in the set at 5-6. As he so often does at crucial moments, Djokovic stepped up a gear, finding extra length and power on his returns to break his opponent's serve and close out a hard-fought opening set.This was the eighth meeting between these two big hitters -- with Djokovic edging the head-to-head 4-3 -- and it had all the makings of being their greatest match to date.However, after Medvedev appeared to recover well from that early disappointment by breaking Djokovic in the opening game of the...

'Okay this is weird. Is this to do with that thing in church? Please don't tell me I've made a mistake marrying you...' Most people think stories are just stories and nothing more: Things we make up to entertain each other. Or that a 'true' story is the simple re-telling of something that happened to someone somewhere sometime. Most people are wrong... Join Arthur McBain and Owen Jenkins for this creepy instalment of At Your Peril. 'Mary's Story' was written by associate writer Chris Jamieson. Introducing guest voices; Hollie Edwin, Emma Ballantine, Grace Dunne and Chris Jamieson. Intro theme voiced by Oliver Britten.

Maciej Kraus is an experienced strategy executive with a broad operational background. He specializes in pricing and sales excellence in B2B, B2C, and retail markets. He worked both for leading multinationals as well as SMEs. He is also a guest lecturer at Stanford and LBS and an author of 2 books on Sales, Strategy, and Pricing. He is also an acknowledged sales coach and trainer, a certified business coach at the same time a TED speaker.  In this episode, Maciej shares how companies should think more than monetization of their product and go after customer retention. He underscores how Pricing validates product-market price fit. As with SaaS Pricing, he points out that it is not about building cool marketing around the product but creating an intrinsic value in the product itself. He shares how one should not be scared to raise prices because for as long as you are winning your deals your price is not high enough.      Why you have to check out today’s podcast: Learn to understand how Pricing is the best validation for your product-market price fit and why you should not feel scared to raise your prices  Find out why you should come from a mindset of not just acquiring but also keeping customers  Find out what Pricing strategy you need to put in place now so that when COVID is over you are prepared that you only have to access and launch it right there and then    “Raise your price by 5% increments. And just wait until you have 20% of your customers leaving you. And then it means that you got to the optimal price.”   - Maciej Kraus    Increase Your Pricing Knowledge: Become a Champions of Value INSIDER! To sign up go to insider.championsofvalue.com   Topics Covered: 01:11 - How Maciej got started in Pricing  01:36 - What got him stuck in Pricing  02:02 - Emphasizing Pricing on the webpage  03:14 - Pricing as a validation for your product-market fit  03:32 - Not just a product-market fit but product market price fit  03:57 - How do startups think of Pricing  05:02 - Agreeing to what Stiving Value Table stands for  05:12 - How does SaaS Pricing excite him  06:10 - The intrinsic value you need to build in SaaS products  07:42 - Mistakes that a lot of subscription businesses make  12:26 - Understanding the value you deliver in a subscription business  14:42 - What should you prepare and what pricing strategy should you need to roll out once COVID ends  16:29 - His best pricing advice that can impact your business  17:13 - The best test if you get Pricing or not  18:10 - How to get your optimal price  18:29 - Why you should raise your prices    Key Takeaways: “For me, Pricing is the best validation for your product-market fit. If you have to give away your product for free, what is it worth?” - Maciej Kraus   “We both agree that you should quite often start with your Pricing, and then build a product around it.” - Maciej Kraus  “I think what I really love about SaaS is that it's not that you sell and forget, which quite often happens with just any other product. You have to build the value on the ground when you have a relationship with your customer.” - Maciej Kraus  “I see quite often with the SaaS businesses they have this product kind of mindset; you just have to acquire customers. And this is the only thing you have to do. But actually, where the money for the SaaS model comes from is from that monetization and the retention.” - Maciej Kraus  “When you are overwhelmed with those different options that you cannot see the difference, then probably most customers will say, my old car is still okay, so I don't need a new one.” - Maciej Kraus  “And this is where I spent quite some time these days working with companies on how to think about what should be our pricing strategy when the reality changes so that we are prepared and we just can press the button and launch it.” - Maciej Kraus  “It's easier to lower price than to increase it. That's why it's always better to start a bit too high than a bit too low.” - Maciej Kraus  “Keep raising by 5%. Because what you hear is that 'Okay, so I listened or I read a marketing book, I raised my prices and guess what -- none of my customers left me. Usually, the answer is, so probably you still have a lot of room for price increases.” - Maciej Kraus    Resources / People Mentioned:  Marc Andreessen  Kyle Poyar    Connect with Maciej Kraus: LinkedIn    Connect with Mark Stiving:    Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn  

Welcome to this new episode on Agreement & Commitment. It's a little shorter than normal, because we're dealing with a very specific topic. This one's been asked for by quite a few people, I think because of the times we're in at the moment. One, we're recording this at the beginning of the year. And so this is the time when everyone's got big plans, strategy documents and kickoffs. And they're keen that they get all their team behind the plan. So there's always discussion: Are the team nodding politely? Or are they really leaning in and getting this. And as we're still in lockdown, many of us are working remotely and so are our teams. Sometimes it's difficult to really understand the passion and the depth of feeling, people have about certain plans. When you can't look people in the eye and when you can't read their body language, sometimes it's more difficult to understand how behind the plan they are, how fully committed they are to the plan. How fully aligned they are with the plan. Do they agree with everything so far? The key thing is that agreement and commitment are two very different things and the first step is being aware of what you are asking for – and also what is being asked of you.  Stephen explains the logic and pain in choosing accurate disappointment over inaccurate optimism.  If there are any other direct requests, please just drop us a line. Our email is podcast @coachpro.online. More notes from the episode below. Main definition: Agreement - we're on the same page in principle; Commitment - I will make a contribution, do something or take action.  So agreeing with something doesn't necessarily mean you're going to do something. Whereas commitment is you're actually going to do something whether you agree or not. You can commit to doing something whether you agree or not.  And equally, you can agree with something, but have no intention of doing anything about it. So it's understanding the difference between the two: have you agreed? Or are you committed? And importantly, are you asking for agreement? Or are you asking for commitment Sometimes we can get them mixed up. Sometimes we can assume. And sometimes we can project onto people. And so it's important that we understand the difference, we communicate the difference, and know what we're asking for. And that we check to make sure that we are both on the same page.   Are we looking for Agreement at this stage, or are we actually looking for a Commitment to do something. As long as we're specific about it, then we're connected, rather than being left exposed by making the wrong assumption about whether you wanted agreement or commitment. Or in reverse, I assume that all you wanted was agreement, but you actually wanted me to do something. In sales conversations, the number of salespeople who will believe they've got commitment, because someone's agreed to something is the confusion you're talking about. The “why” this is an important topic is to ensure that we're all on the same page, and we're either not being let down or letting people down. For some people, in some situations, agreement and commitment are the same thing. So if you agree to do it, you've also committed. For some people, in some situations, agreement and commitment will be two separate things. There can be agreement with no commitment, and there can be commitment with no agreement.   There are also risks that come if they're not separated. So if you are someone who, when you agree to do something you always commit, then you can become either spread too thin by being overly committed to too many things. Or you can find yourself never committing because there was something that you couldn't agree on. If you keep agreement and commitment as the same thing, the risk is that you then project onto other people that if they have agreed, then they must also have committed. And so when you go looking for it and they haven't done it you're left disappointed. At an operational level you need understand that agreement and commitment are two distinct things and then being clear on which one you're looking for, and which one you're prepared to give.  I know you don't agree with this, but could you do this for me? Now you're looking for commitment without that agreement. So understanding that they're distinct but knowing the relationship between the two and that connection between the two is important. The people who find it difficult to say yes, even when it is a no-brainer, it's obvious – used to frustrate me.  Over time I have started to realize that the people who are a little bit more difficult or not so quick to say yes, these tended to be the ones who were preferring to commit. So they have more questions on what it looks like. But the people who I thought were easy, the ones who would say yes, almost without thinking about it, were just saying Yes. So they were agreeable, had no intention of ever of committing to anything. So it was really easy for them to say Yes. Because they weren't bringing the value of commitment too.   Sometimes the prospect will be saying no. And the sales guy will be thinking, this doesn't make any sense. I've told you all of these amazing things. I know they're applicable to you.  Actually you're saying it's not that that person saying I know that I do agree with your sales pitch. You were very agreeable, but if I say yes to it, in my head, I will actually have to commit to this, to going through with this.  And all that that means - changing supplier, culture change, the implementation and procurement chats. So even though I agree with your sales pitch, I'm not going to agree because the moment I say yes, that's a sign of commitment I have to have to follow through.  And then there are those clients and prospects who have agreement and commitment as two separate things will say yes but they won't sign the deal. They're the ones clogging up your pipeline.   Agreement is more words. Commitment is more pictures in the mind. The example that I use is when you say to someone “let's do lunch, let's get to know each other about more socially, in a relaxed different environment, let's go somewhere nice for lunch and get to know each other better. And they go yes we should until you've asked this sort of real key question, which is when? And if the answer is well, let me get back to you. Then, you know, lunch isn't happening anytime soon. Because the, the key difference between agreement and commitment is pictures.  If I was to say to you when, what day of the week suits you best does breakfast or lunch. suit you better? What's your favourite restaurant, what type of food do you prefer? Now what tends to be better for your schedule. Now, if you have no answers to those questions it is because you have no pictures in your mind, which means you have no commitment. But if you have our Thursdays are good for me, as the breakfast is all better for me, then then lunch, because it's the start of my day. Love Italian food.  In fact that place around the corner from me is ideal. And normally the end of the month is when there's more time to meet. Now I know we're going to have lunch. There's a commitment to that, not just agreement, in principle. It's great to get a yes. – and so what you've got is agreement. And now you're only two or three questions away from knowing whether someone is agreeing, or if they've also committed. However one of the main reasons people don't ask those next questions is an emotional reason.  They want to believe.  We want to believe that if they've said yes, then they've also committed. However ‘Accurate Disappointment' is far more valuable than ‘Inaccurate Optimism'. Even if it may be disappointing understanding where you are in terms of commitment it is better to know. If someone doesn't commit today, it doesn't mean that they aren't going to commit going forward. Sometimes people need to be asked two or three times to get beyond agreement and to commitment.  They may agree with the concept, but not know you well enough or trust you well enough.  It could simply be the timing. But it's still better to have the accurate disappointment, because you can build upon that, rather than inaccurate optimism. You can ask for both. Do not just ask for one and assume that the other will follow. Asking for both being specific.  A lot of CEOs will present the business plan to the leadership team. And then they'll say what do you think? What they're asking for is Agreement. Not Commitment.  Commitment would be presenting the plan and then saying: 'Okay, this is what it is. So what are you now going to do with this?' And so this especially, that makes sense. You see this lots of times where there's a big, glorious, beautiful, well designed, glitzy PowerPoint presentation. And at the end, everyone smiles and claps, enthusiastically.  And so the leader leaves the stage happy, because everyone gets it. But then comes the disappointment because the people in that room have agreed with it, they haven't committed to anything. And so typically that leader then assumes that they didn't agree. And so he is going to explain it again or better. Because surely once they really agree, then they will commit.  He doesn't think it's a lack of commitment. He thinks it's a lack of agreement If you're looking for a whole audience to commit, give them something that everybody can commit to doing. And at least then you've got everybody going beyond that line and moving from agreement and attaching a level of commitment to it. What stops a lot of people committing is fear of the size of the commitment. What does this mean I'll need to do?   Do I need to go and read books or to go on a course?  Do I need to do six hours a day on this?  All you're looking for them to understand a little bit more. So specify. By communicating in pictures, you're specifying what the commitment looks like, as opposed to getting emotional commitment, which is ‘count me in' and then  'wait a minute, is that what it involves? I don't know if I can, I might need to withdraw'. So make sure that what you're getting is intelligent commitment, not just emotional commitment. So if you're, if you've got a big strategy deck, is it about then just to get people going just to get the momentum going in? What will you get done by next Monday? And what's that going to involve? Who do you have in mind? What bits will you like and which bits not so much? What are you going to have to draw up to be able to do this? You're specifying through pictures. And as I say, better to get the accurate disappointment of someone saying, I can't do that. So at an operational level, it's understanding that there's a distinction between agreement and commitment. The next level is to be clear on what you're asking for, and also what's being asked of you. And being clear on what you want to ask for, you don't always need to ask for both. And at a strategic level, it's influencing towards where you want it to get to. Agreement and commitment. Two different, distinct things. Be sure you know what you're asking for. Are you asking other people for Agreement? Or are you asking them for Commitment?  Be clear on what other people are asking you for so you don't disappoint them, let them down, or overstretch yourself. And one of the key ideas is, when you want commitment, you make sure you're really getting it. Even if you go beyond the agreement, you really get a deep level of commitment. You really make sure that people understand what they're committing to. And help them by giving them something easy that they can commit to at first. I think this is important for so many different people. I see salespeople all the time, happily equate agreement to commitment. And sometimes it's just wishful thinking. Sometimes it just seems easy way. But you do see that those really excellent salespeople do understand the agreement is just part of it. And really what you're seeking for is commitment and commitment to a first step of action.

In this episode:   We meet Emily Carney, a leading social media influencer, writer, and public speaker highly knowledgeable on a number of human spaceflight topics. She was formerly a nuclear propulsion mechanic for the U.S. Navy, and also a schoolteacher for a time. She was working as a freelance writer when she founded her blog This Space Available in 2010, which is was later picked up by the National Space Society, and then she created the hugely popular Space Hipsters Facebook group in 2011, which recently passed the 20,000-member mark. In addition to those ongoing endeavors, she is also cohost of the new Space and Things podcast.   In our conversation, Emily describes what sparked her interest in space, her time in the Navy, the ethos and community behind Space Hipsters, her favorite historical space figures and spaceflight programs, the recent successes in space that excite her the most, and whether she has ever considered any other roles in the space community.   Commenting on what she feels is a critical mindset for the future of spaceflight, Emily says, "I think it's important for us to go forward, and to be future-thinking and to think, 'Okay, what are we going to be doing in space 50 to 100 years from now? How are we going to expand our civilization, and are we going to expand it into space? How are we going to use this technology in a positive way?'"   Note: This podcast was recorded on December 14, 2020. Since the recording took place, the Space Hipsters Facebook group surpassed 20,000 members. Also, mentions of the SpaceX SN8 Starship launch are in reference to the first high-altitude test flight of that prototype, which occurred on December 9, 2020.   Introductory and closing music: Paint the Sky by Hans Atom © copyright 2015, licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution (3.0) license. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/hansatom/50718 Ft: Miss Judged

"When you just drop in to the to the knowing of 'This is my thing. This is my truth,' people feel the vibration, and then they will resonate with you there. And everyone's looking for someone to come and have confidence so that they can say, 'Okay. I can put my trust in you.'" - Join the free 5 Day Challenge starting January 18th! cathyheller.com/yourturn

Fernando Delgado is an Emmy Award-winning audio consultant and owner of Stickman Sound in Las Vegas. He's an audio expert who truly loves what he does, and he recently developed a remote recording solution that allows people to stay home without sacrificing sound quality. He also happens to be a great human in general with some wonderful business advice.--Connect with me through your favorite platform: https://pods.link/aardvarkgirlConnect with Fernando:Stickman SoundInstagram @stickmansoundTwitter @stickman_soundFacebook @stickmansound--00:23 How Fernando started his career in TV & Film audio. "I think the sound thing really just came from my music passion. I had planned on being a recording engineer, a music engineer. It just didn't pan out that way."03:27 About mentoring others: "The people that helped me helped me by sharing what they knew. I have found over the course of my career that you get better at what you do when you can explain it in a way that somebody that doesn't think like you understands. Teaching has been a big part of who I am as a professional, selfishly so that I can understand what I'm doing even better."04:52 On sharing opportunities with others: "I don't consider my peers to be competition, I just consider them to be my peers."06:29 The great feeling that comes with turning down work that you don't connect with personally. "I actually wish that I had achieved this state of mind years ago, because I think I would have found happiness, like real happiness a lot sooner in my adult life as well. Today, my kids are older, and I feel a personal sense of responsibility to work on stuff that makes me prideful, so that I can invest myself into it a little bit more. And I also care about, you know, when my son asks me what I did today, I don't want to be embarrassed."10:18 "If you're at the very beginning of your career, be frugal. The better you can be with your money, the more you can wait for those opportunities that you are really hoping for."12:24 Adapting a business to the changing world & industry.14:49 Using challenges from the pandemic to create a new remote recording system that allows people to get the same quality sound they need without having to have an engineer in the room.18:11 "We all work in a service business. Our job is to serve the client, and every client is going to need to be served a little bit differently. So it's imperative upon us as being professionals to say, 'Okay, what is it that you need? Here are the skillsets that I have that can solve that problem or bring you whatever that outcome or solution you're looking for.' And that's how I approach every job. I think that's also why I'm so versatile and can bounce from one area of television to another."20:36 Dedicating time to spend with family: "I know a lot of people have suffered with their relationships. I have not. We're closer today, I think, than when we met, which is amazing, because we've been together 21 years. And I'm closer with my kids. I know my kids, like what they're into and how they're doing. And it's not just a quick side conversation anymore. That's been great."22:26 "I treat my engineering like a lot of people treat the gym. I get up in the morning and I'm doing gear exercises, and I'm always trying to learn new software."25:03 "If you're a business owner, you need to be money smart." 

What up, Squad!This week's episode is FIRE! We are counting the cost, y'all!It hit me hard this week as I was preparing for this episode when I thought, 'What would have happened if I hadn't made that choice to walk in my purpose and taken those messy first steps after my Mom passed on?'The cost of procrastination is higher than the cost of transformation. (Read that again) Why do I say this? Most people I meet or coach have the mindset (like I did), that as long as something is done, even if it's last minute, that's that! We don't stop and take stock of the full impact of procrastination.Before I mastered my Cavewoman I would wake up everyday and think to myself, 'Okay... I wonder what fire I'm putting out today?' It was truly, truly a day to day struggle, every single day.The biggest thing that procrastination cost me was my peace. And you might be feeling, 'Well... peace is not that important to me.'Sis! Take it from me. If you are not peaceful, you cannot walk in your purpose. You will be a toxic person to be around. It will cost you key relationships like family and friends. It will cost you opportunities; because no one wants to be around negative energy.You will get into time debt!!! What is that? Listen to the episode!!!!My take-outs from this episode (and they are many):You have to get out of the cycle of self-punishment and overcompensation. It is important to eliminate negative self-talk. The things that you tell yourself are as powerful - and I dare say - more powerful than the things other people say to you.Who I'm I denying an opportunity to walk in their purpose because I stopped walking in mine? How many lives are not changed because I didn't meet their need with the gifts and knowledge that I have been blessed with?My challenge to you this week is to take stock. It will renew your determination and motivation to keep pushing through procrastination.Mentioned in this Episode:Episode 000-Welcome to the POP Podcast! Episode 001-Profiles in Purpose: My Story Pt. 1 Episode 002- Profiles in Purpose: My story Pt. 2 Episode 013: What is my purpose?! How to get clarity on your purpose in order to take that messy first step Episode 037: Put Your Cavewoman On Trial: How to eliminate negative self-talk Episode 045: Special Unicorn Syndrome*********************************************************************************************************This week's podcast episode is sponsored by my freebie: The Procrastinators Guide to Starting a Business.Want to take the first step to overcome procrastination? Click here to take the Productive on Purpose Procrastination Personality Test! (You will also be added to my email list.)Let's support and encourage each other! Join the POP Squad Facebook Group!

Our monthly installment of You Ask, We Answer. Where we answer all sorts of questions from our listeners. Question 1: An inspiring discussion about a dress from a member of our FB Community I've got some real dress drama. I got my dress Dec 2019. I fell in love with this dress-- like, this one was "the one." Best part was I LOVED the color, because it's pink! I also got it for a real steal-- $100 instead of $1200 because it was 90% off! But everyone HATED my pick, even my mom. A couple of people in my bridal party let it slip to my fiancé what I was wearing, too, because they didn't like it either. Now my original wedding date has passed and every time I look at my dress, I get sad thinking about what I lost I have another year before this wedding happens-- if it doesn't get canceled again. I'm wondering if I should go shopping for something else. I know it doesn't matter what other people think, but I don't know if I can be happy when I know my closest family and friends think I'm wearing an ugly dress (and have made it clear they think it's awful) Some of the comments and responses on FB: “umm...fuck. those. people. your day, your dress. you get to wear whatever you want and if you feel like a fucking queen in this dress, then you wear it” _“I am truly sorry people need to put you down to feel good about their choices and decisions. A new dress isn't going to change others vitriol. And because I'm 100% that bitch- your body is your body. A more white, sleeved or whatever they want dress isn't going to change that.” “I hate that the people who should be supporting you made you feel bad. it's your day and you should wear whatever you love and what makes you feel your best. It's a beautiful dress! People tend to hate things that are outside of their comfort zones. Im sure you've had to make a lot of sacrifices and changes from your original wedding plans due to COVID, so if this is the dress you see yourself marrying the love of your life in, then don't let this be another thing you have to give up” Update from Bride: "So I scheduled a bridal appointment today at a different salon I went to originally. I was having mixed feelings when I walked in. By the time I tried the first dress on, I was thinking, 'That's it, I need a new dress!' My first one just can't compare with these. I tried on around seven dresses. I only found one that I liked. As they put the veil on, I had the thought, 'This is what I want to look like on my wedding day.' But I didn't get the fluttery butterflies or happy feelings I did before. There was no emotion. It was just, 'Okay, this is what is expected of me.' Then I realized I was actually tailoring my idea of what I wanted to look like on my wedding day to what everyone ELSE had in mind for me-- some picturesque perfect Hollywood wedding that was so standard it could fit anybody, but didn't really say "me." "It was then I figured out that no matter how many dresses I tried on or how many salons I went to, it would be a waste of my time because I'd already found exactly what I wanted-- my pinky, pretty princess dress." "I think the final decision came after the stylist told me my choice of dress would be close to $5,000. $5k compared to the $100 I'd spent on my original pick? There was just no contest. I kept seeing all the things I COULD do with $5k rather than spending all of it on a dress that I was only okay with, a dress that was meant for pleasing other people instead of just myself." "And then it all came to a head just how much of a box people had been trying to stuff me in my entire life instead of just allowing myself to be... me. I thanked the stylist, gave them an awesome review on The Knot (they really were a great salon) then hiked myself home to try on my original pinky dress. It wasn't as sparkly, or expensive, or dramatic as the ones I'd just tried on, it was a bit wrinkled from being abandoned in my closet, and the gems need a bit of shine, but it's MINE. So I'm happy to say that on my wedding day, I'll be wearing pink and anyone who doesn't like it can go suck an eggplant, because I'm no longer here for that noise." Question 2: Alone Time My fiance and his family are very against the first look. I totally get it with tradition and all but have you seen any other fun ways for the bride and groom to have a moment alone on the wedding day? I have heard of the meal alone but we talked about it and we both think we would feel rushed and like we need to get to our party. I am open to ideas! Thanks! Answer 2: For a little time 'just the two of you' on the wedding day - I think it doesn't have to be much time to feel special and to give you two a bit of time to connect and take it all in a little. I have three suggestions: 10 minutes to eat and freshen up before you enter the reception. After all of the formal photos post-ceremony. Everyone else goes to cocktail hour and you can take 10ish minutes alone to chug some water, freshen up, and eat some of the passed apps. It takes a little planning - you need a place to go and someone to bring you these things, but it's a nice little breather before you join the party - cause once you do, you won't really be alone for the rest of the event! First look in the reception hall or ballroom - if your venue has separate areas for cocktail and reception, you two can sneak into the reception area while everyone else is at cocktail hour. Usually the wedding planner or catering manager brings you in for this. You get a chance to take it all in alone, and you can see all of the planning and details before everyone comes in. I love the photos of this moment because it's like a reveal and the looks on the couples faces are usually so happy! End of the night - solo dance. This is a really sweet moment that happens at the very end of the night. All of the guests clear out (maybe they're outside getting ready for your grand exit...) and you both stay back in the reception room, with the photographer and DJ. Think candlelight and a love song. You have your last dance here, just the two of you. It's even romantic if the catering staff is still clearing out in the background. Question 3: What to do with my fiancé and his groomsmen/ushers on the morning of the wedding? Our ceremony is at a church about 15 minutes away from our reception venue (a hotel). My bridesmaids and I will getting ready at the hotel in a large suite with plenty of room for us. The guys are planning on getting breakfast and then getting ready before the photographer arrives just after lunch. Can the guys just get ready in their own hotel rooms? Do we need a separate space for them to gather? Is it okay then for the photographer to get a couple shots just in someone's hotel room? There are 7 guys total including my fiancé..so that seems like a lot for one regular room. I am sure that they can take photos in the lobby (it's an old and very photogenic hotel), but should I plan to get them an extra room (like a meeting room space or suite?) Answer 3: Couple thoughts about this - in my experience, it's very helpful if the men have a set place to gather pre-wedding, just like the ladies. It's good to know everyone is where they are supposed to be, and it makes things easier in terms of planning and timing for the day. Photographers will agree with me here. The 'getting ready' shots aren't the same for the guys...but they still happen. Finishing touches, putting on jackets, maybe a toast in the room, stuff like that. They can relax and have some fun before the festivities of the day really get started. A hotel room is best for this, since you'll have one, so you can be on different floors. It can be a groomsman's room, but if you were to want more space, get a suite or an upgraded room. (I feel like guys like chairs to sit in - so a suite would have those when a regular room wouldn't - something to think about!). Having some outdoor space like a patio is nice. But the main thing is that they're all in one place -- and their stuff is in that place too. So someone needs a key, and I don't think it should be your groom's room where this happens. He'll potentially have extra crap in his room if it is and he won't want to deal with it - whether he's sleeping in that room or not. (You'd be surprised how many half empty water bottles, random pairs of pants, and stuff like that ends up in the 'getting ready' room.) The way it usually works is that the girls all get ready in the big suite and that suite is the one that the couple stays in on the wedding night. (So your girls are going to have to come back at some point and move their crap and clean up a little for you to come back to a nice, peaceful room after the wedding. Trust me, this is usually something I do for my brides!). And the guys get ready in an extra room that you book, or in a single groomsman's room. It's convenient for the guys to have a place to meet up in the morning just like you will be doing. Photos in the lobby or outside will likely still happen, but the photographer can meet them in the room first and go from there. Hope this helps! No need to schedule something for them to do or anything like that. Just have plenty of water, good music playlists, maybe some booze - and you can even stash some possible necessities in the room for them - like snacks, extra masks, deodorant, mouthwash, etc. Gifts if your fiancé is doing those... Voicemail Question: My original wedding date was in May, and so it did not go on as planned. We eloped and rescheduled the wedding for next year. How we can prevent this from just feeling like a party? How do we keep the vows and introductions from feeling theatrical? How do we recapture that magic? Answer: We get it. The second time doesn't capture the same energy or magic. But don't think of this as a re-do. You are legally married and that was its own event. But this is a different event. There is no certainty but you can start to get excited about this new event. You'll be with people you probably have not seen in a long time. Celebrating YOUR marriage. Drop the things that didn't excite you in the original planning, just do this wedding party your way. There are no rules anymore! Links We Referenced: alpinerings.com (https://alpinerings.com) Promo Code: BIGWEDDING15 unboringofficiant.com/bigwedding (https://www.unboringofficiant.com/bigwedding/) Get In Touch EMAIL: thebigweddingplanningpodcast@gmail.com FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/TBWPpodcast/ (https://www.facebook.com/TBWPpodcast/) INSTAGRAM: @thebigweddingplanningpodcast (https://www.instagram.com/thebigweddingplanningpodcast/) BE SURE TO USE THE HASHTAG: #planthatwedding TWITTER: @TBWPpodcast PHONE: (415) 723-1625 Leave us a message and you might hear your voice on the show! PATREON: www.patreon.com/thebigweddingplanningpodcast (https://www.patreon.com/thebigweddingplanningpodcast)

In this episode, we speak with Jay Parikh, Facebook’s outgoing VP of engineering. Jay is the architect behind Facebook’s data center infrastructure and engineering teams, who helped design and execute the physical layer that underpins the platform."We came together and had this big meeting and decided 'Okay. Well, we have to go and build our own infrastructure.' We had really no choice given the fact that we were scaling so rapidly. And we started to just struggle with the off-the-shelf kind of solutions out there, both open source software that we had. We massaged and bent those pieces of software as far as they could probably go," says Jay.Jay realized that he had to fundamentally change the way Facebook built resiliency into its systems. Deploying a network for 300 million people is much different than deploying one for 3 billion people. Quentin Clark and Steve Herrod dug in deeper with Jay about what happened in the years afterward.

www.valerielavignelife.com/marina for full show notes! [1:49] Hey Marina! Welcome to the Women's Empowerment Podcast! Thank you so much for joining me today!... I was thinking about when we met, and I was trying to figure out where exactly it was. It was at the June Motel (in Prince Edward County) over a weekend retreat with the Toronto Business Babes and The Content Planner. I remember seeing you in your kimono with your long blonde hair and you're really tall and colourful and I wanted to know who you were, and I was excited when you started talking to me at one of the lunches. One of the things I want to talk about today is your personal journey. So you have a pretty intense and very empowering story, and I'd love for you to share that story, in your own words.  Yes. Thank you, I do have an intense story that's for sure, and I think that's because I've worn a lot of hats and I've been through a lot in my life so far. I'm an artist and designer, and basically started my career want to be a fashion designer. When I was 18 I moved to New York City and I worked in Fashion and I went to the Parsons School of Design, but the journey took about 20 years to get me to where I am right now. So all that happened in between is what made me the woman that I am today. So that's: leaving home, discovering who you are as an artist, that's going through experiences that create who I became and essentially it was all in the last year that it really unfolded for me. I guess I'll tell you about how it all came to be. I moved to New York and 18 and basically started my career in fashion design and I came back to Vancouver after 9/11. That was a hard time for me to go back to New York City because the world had changed so much. So I've been through a lot of world changes and sort of drama things, at the time it was so scary so I begged my parents to let me drop out of school and sort of figure out who I am. And when I did drop out of school, in my senior year, I ended up starting my own clothing line which won a lot of awards and accolades, but I was 21. I was SUPER young! I needed up doing that for 5 years and it was amazing but I really had no clue of what I was doing, so long story short, I went back out into the world and I decided to try all the things that were on my bucket list. Because I knew when I was 24/25 I didn't have a social life because I ran a business at that age. I get it because now I do the same thing again because of the experiences that I've had. So when I was about 24/25, maybe 26 I just went out into the world and checked everything off my bucket list and everyone thought I was crazy and tried to intervene but I was like, 'no I want to be in a rock band, and I want to be a yoga teacher, I want to do all these things' because I just had no fear. I could always come back and work for another clothing company or start my own clothing company again. But I was so young and I didn't know about the planet and I didn't know about sustainability, other than the little bit that I had read about. I didn't understand until I had a clothing line and I went overseas and I saw people sewing. I didn't know where this stuff comes from. And when you go to the store and you buy things, you don't know where they come from. As I got older I really started to care about that. And I got all the stuff off my chest about wanting to be in a band, and I did it! I did all those things for about 18 months, and I was a yoga teacher for about 6 or 7 years, during the whole experience and yoga is still a huge part of my life. After quitting my rock band I told my parents I wanted to be a graphic designer and I want to design websites and  I want to go to the Art Institute or Vancouver, because I'm from Vancouver. And my parents sat me down and told me that I was going back to New York and you're graduating. So I reached out to the school and asked if they would take me back after 8 or 9 years. Even though they had just changed their curriculum, they allowed me to go back. So I went back to New York at 30 years old and I got to do my senior year. So it was a real cool kind of circle story of going back to where I really belonged, but getting the things off my chest that I didn't know if they were the career I wanted. I think there's so much pressure when you're young to pick your degree; decide what you want to do, but really you have to experience your life. You have to try to fly at other things and see what sticks. I am so grateful I had that time and I will never regret going on tour with a rock band and teaching yoga all over the world. I could to teach yoga in Hawaii, Barcelona, and Las Vegas and it was just so amazing! Because when I got my Yoga Certification, I met so many amazing people that had their own studios all over the world and that's so cool and it's just part of my story. From there, I ended up going back to school, graduating, and my boyfriend at the time was not able to work in New York so I was looking for a job in Canada, and from my graduation I got a job at Joe Fresh in Toronto. So that's how I ended up in Toronto. I started as a Print and Pattern textile designer and kind of worked my way up. It was amazing to meet Joe Mimran who was such a force in the fashion industry. He started up Club Monaco and sold it, then ended up partnering with Loblaws to great this grocery store brand. There were so many amazing things I took out of that experience, and one of them was I really learned about Fast Fashion. And that just tugged at my heartstrings because I remember my experience with fashion and going overseas and I worked with small factories in Thailand, and Indonesia and I was in Bali. I make resort ware, it's always been beachy. So when I worked at Joe Fresh, I got to see the units; 10 000, 20 000. And it just kind of blows your mind. You know, every grocery store around the world is selling these things. And what happens to the product when it doesn't sell? What happens? That's when I started to ask questions, and there were some incidences where factories were falling down and the quality of the work environment wasn't really there. It was just kind of like a weird eye-opener and in the long run it just kind of brought back the fact that I knew I was going to design for myself again, I knew I was going to have a clothing line again, I knew I was going to do something with my art. And I knew it had to be something sustainable. It had to be organic in some sense, I knew the working conditions had to be good. That was sort of my mission statement for when I had to go ahead and create a new product line. I worked for Joe Fresh for a while and then I got kind of pinched from another company who offered me the world, and that's when I started to learn about the work force in a big city. When I started to work for other companies, they promise you all this stuff, and you design but it's the same kind of circle. But the good thing is I got bigger roles, and I got more responsibility, and then I had to manage a team, and then I became a creative director. All those things [I kept thinking,] 'am I read to do this on my own?' and I was just kind of waiting for an opportunity and the Artist Project in Toronto came around and my husband was kind of getting annoyed with me because I had all these paintings, and he's like, 'They're taking up the whole garage, are you going to tell people you have paintings to buy, or are they just going to be here in the garage forever?' and I wasn't really showcasing myself as an artist. I wasn't really promoting myself as an artist at the time. So I decided to go for it and apply for the Artist Project and I got in off the waitlist! It was 2017 that I did my first booth and I pretty much ended up selling all my paintings, and I lightbulb went off, so from there I, I knew I wanted to wear something at my art shows. I had already started designing things for my brother's winery - where I am now - so I had always kept vendors and connections that I knew I could start printing my own product on. My brother was the first person that needed tea towels, tote bags, scarves, and I found a factory that checked off all the boxes. But I wanted a kimono, because I wanted to wear something that looked like my art while I was selling my paintings! So I was like, 'I definitely have to have a draping kimonos, that's just what it has to be!' Silk, floor length, it has to feel good on this skin. I'm really picky with fabric now as I'm getting older now, it has to feel good on the skin, I don't care how cute you look in something, once it's touching your skin, it has to feel good. So I'd rather have a lot less stuff now, but when I was younger I wanted it all and that's where it kind of came from; that's where it all switched. I ended up making my first kimono. My husband, when he saw me put it on was like, 'that is insane, that is so cool, that is amazing.' Then I'd show friends and [they would all] want one. Then I'd wear it out and [people asked me where I got it], so then I ended up making different prints and thinking up new ideas. They were one off prints and really expensive obviously, I'm not fast fashion, so you're paying premium dollar to have one made. I went on to more art shows, and the One of a Kind Show asked me if I wanted to be apart of [it], after seeing me at the Artist Project, and this was a dream! I would never have thought they would even allow me in, but I sell my art, and then I make my fabrics. It became a lifestyle of watercolour on different things. I love minimal art with white backgrounds and beautiful watercolour prints. I like that it goes on kimonos, and I sort of just created this Art of Marina Brand. That's sort of where I ended up, and I knew that it had to be sustainable. Marina is my name, and I'm really into the ocean and beaches and resorts. Once I become profitable, I will be giving back to the ocean, clean water, shark free marinas. Everything to do with preserving our oceans and keeping them clean. It was kind of just like 'whoa, this is actually kind of a brand? Because my name is Marina, I'm all about the ocean and I design resort wear!' I kind of just thought I was ready! The One of a Kind Show in 2018 was the last show I did as a creative director. A week after the show, I got into a car accident. So that was when BOOP! Life changed big time! This is where the things get kind of weird because, what everyone didn't know (that saw me and met me). I do have a very positive and happy energy and I love everybody and I just see the light in pretty much everyone. But I was going through a really dark time. My husband and me are crazy in love and have been best friends for ever and amazing relationship, and connection; all the things, so blessed! But the only thing we weren't blessed with was having children. We just had a slew of miscarriages and trauma that happened to us with trying to have a baby, and so I wasn't going to give up at that point because having a child was the biggest thing I ever wanted. I think sometimes when you can't have something, you want it 900 times more, and you start to go a little crazy. So I actually got to that point. Everyone that was pregnant in the office was a trigger. I started to take away from all the positive blessings that I did have, because of something that I couldn't have. And that's where life got weird for me, because I pretty much went after everything I wanted and worked hard to achieve it. But the crazy thing about fertility and pregnancy is that, that's something you have no control over. And a lot of people can't let go of that, and I was one of them. So when I was in my car accident, I was pregnant, and it was a healthy pregnancy. And it was the first time that I was like finally pregnant, and I got into the car accident. And I was like, 'Okay the Universe obviously has other plans for me,' and there's not a lot that I can do at this point, other than step back and work on my own healing.  I've gone through so much healing which is why I'm able to talk about this, and this is why I wrote my book, which I will share with you, is because the hardest thing in the world for women is infertility. When you're trying to conceive, or when you do and you have miscarriages, it's so painful. Hugs and love to every woman who has gone through that. There are so many different stages of women and their fertility and their cycle. Like postpartum and what happens to your body. Women who can't have children, they would give up their leg to have a kid! So when I see women with postpartum and body image and body shaming... hunny I would take those stretch marks, I would take the pain that you went through, I would lose the sleep because it's something that I couldn't have! But this is the mental and psychological thing that we go through as women. What I started to do when I was going through my healing, was I realized that, I do have so many other blessings, and if I can help other women who have gone through this, find their light... I want to be that light to say, 'I've gone through it. I've lost babies. And I'm okay.' Because I've taken the time to dig deep and get the spiritual healing. I wasn't into the whole mediation and taking the time to write affirmations and focusing on the positive energy and the light you've been given. I wasn't into that. I was in corporate fashion, I loved the world, but I didn't have any issues. I worked, got what I needed and moved on. It wasn't until I couldn't have something and then I had a tragic car accident that I legitimately had to step back and find my purpose. I did a podcast with Making Smith "A Walk in My Stilettos" One of the things we both took out of that was that Pain Births Purpose. When you read a good story about somebody, or you watch an Oscar winning movie about someone's life, the best stories are the most painful ones, right? Because they overcame and obstacle, and they looked deeper and found their light. I'm grateful for that car accident - in a crazy way. I'm still sad about what happened and I relive it sometimes and I go to my meditation places, and I find a way to deal with it when it comes up, because it does. But I'm grateful for the light that it did bring out in me. In a sense that I was like, okay well I didn't lose my arm, I can still draw, I can still paint. I have time now to focus on nourishing my body, my soul and my purpose. That was [part] of how I overcame the dark side. I decided that this is what happened and it is what it is, and I'm just going to focus on why I'm here and what's my legacy? What can I leave behind if it's not going to be my children? Maybe I can leave behind some beautiful artwork that people will appreciate after I'm going. It's weird because legacy wasn't a big word for me until I realized I might not have kids. And you realize that it doesn't matter because it's your life and it's about what you do every day. Every interaction that you have, I could be that woman who gives a stink face to the woman with her children in the grocery store, or I could say, 'Oh you have beautiful children.' and smile and leave that positive light because I do love everybody and I'm not jealous of other people's children. Because I've come to a point where I'm grateful for my blessings and love [all the children in my life]. I would do anything for anyone, it was a me thing it wasn't a them thing. [21:54] Thank you so much for sharing that. I could feel my own emotions coming up and I honestly I wasn't expecting to react the way that I was as you were speaking, but it's so important because I love what you said, "Pain does birth purpose." I think there is some truth to that because not only is that pain... it depends, there are so many layers to it. But when you start to step back, you can really find that purpose through the pain. But if you're so focused on the pain and staying in that "victim mentality" you're not allowing that space and that processing of the pain to bring out that purpose. Like I said, there are so many layers there. And it's a very personal and imitate journey, and going through the layers, getting the help, doing the healing, I mean, I can only imagine how much growth happened in that short amount of time. It's only been a few years but to hear how far you've come since then, it's incredibly empowering. Your story is so empowering. I really am grateful for you sharing that, and feeling like you can share that, because what I think of when I see women like you, who have gone through traumas... it's just this beautiful and incredible story that helps me see someone that I can relate to, and someone I look up to, if they can do it, then so can I. And because you're holding the space for women and people, and using the platforms like my podcast and other shows, and your instagram page, and your kimonos... it's important and it's powerful and we need people like you in this world, so thank you so much again. [24:24]  I do have some fun questions I'd like to ask you about your story, I'm dying to know, what was the name of your band? I was in a band in the states and we were called 'Jaded' I used to have major stage fright, I was always super shy as a kid, I was always so scared and nervous. Trust me, when I was little my mom used to try to get me up on stage in places and I used to get up and shake and freeze. And I still have to deal with that, that's still something else I've overcome, because I became a yoga teacher. When I became a yoga teacher I learned how to speak in front of people. But I'm telling you, my first few yoga classes I was stiff and scared and I did not know how to speak and I forgot all the things, but then again it's about moving into this space of the less you think, the more you're going to do well, and that's art. So the band was called Jaded. and it was not my type of music, I'm a very Fleetwood Mac type of gal, I love the classic rock, and I love singer-songwriter and acoustic anything. And I was pretty much in an all girl heavy metal rock band. But hey! It was a platform where I could be someone else, like an alter ego and I could learn how to preform in front of people, so it was pretty cool and I wore leather freakin everything. My friends were like, 'What the heck is this!?' and I'm like, 'Just trust. I'm on a mission, I'm seeing if I can be a singer in a band.' The exciting thing is that I ended up going to singer-songwriter mode after I quit the band. I learned that I was not meant to do that. I tried, I gave it 135% or 3000% and the music industry wasn't for me. But I'm so proud of myself for trying and I recorded music and all those things. [26:30] That's so amazing, and after this, I'm going to get you to send me some of your songs. LOL What I also love about your journey that you share is that your 20's are this time for you to explore and try new things, and step into the possibility of becoming an all-leather wearing heavy metal rockstar? Yes I could! And it's that growth of getting out of your comfort zone and learning new things. It's really finally learning and creating who you are. And I love how through your journey, and through your story, you were always coming back to art in some way. That's what I wanted to ask you about next, is this healing power of art that you talk about and share.  [27:49] What I want to know is, what are some of the ways that we can bring out our inner artist, or our inner creator?  You know the first thing I would say, like anything else, you need to let go of your inhibition. You have to be free and open to experiment. A lot of people are trying to paint the perfect face or trying to paint something from nature. When I teach my art classes I start with an abstract approach. We just get the brush and focus on the pigment and wanter and just mix it and just watched what happens when you make a stroke. It seems like a junior way, but you kind of have to go back to the beginning to see what that paint does on its own. because abstract art is beautiful. People who are creating abstract art are making millions of dollars and they have no control over what they do, because it's really just about what the paint does. So I like people to stop and look at that. And just get out of your head. Leave your ego at the door, same thing when you do a yoga class. You just have to let go and remember that you have to be open and free to what you're feeling that day. So whenever I get a little bit of inspiration, I do whatever that inspiration is calling me to do. When I'm stiff doing something, I'm not going to be really good at it. When you're trying to draw something and your hand is stiff, how are you going to make beautiful lines? You have to relax your hand, and just let it come out of you, loosen up, shake it out and that is when you're going to make beautiful art. When you're locked and tight and feeling like, "Oh I suck!" How are you going to make beautiful art then? It's a mindset of letting go and being free and just trusting that your hands just knows what to do. [29:54] I think that's great advice, because I feel like the more rigid I am, and the more that my hand is stiff, it doesn't flow out of you like you said, and we're all creators inside so we just need to let it come out, right? How do we get ourselves out of that "I suck" or "I'm not good at art mindset?  I love this question because what's good art and what's bad art? Go look at what painting sold for $50 million and ask, is that good? I don't know... Art is in the eye of the beholder. For me I like to really just ask my students to really just feel the art. I know this is going to sound cheesy, but it's a creative experiment, and it's a release, so when you're feeling an emotion and you paint that emotion, it's going to dry and you're going to be like, "wow I did that?" It's all about doing it as much as you can until your feel comfortable. Once you feel comfortable holding the brush, mixing the paint, then you can start to experiment with more challenging tasks. And that's why with my little IGTVs and tutorials, you have to be patient. It's steps. You will get there, just let go of thinking that you're good or bad, and do it for the process, as cheesy as that sounds. That's what it is. For me it's a release. Some people like to run 10k a day, I like to come home, listen to good music, and make a painting. And just like, let go and stop thinking about the world, and one thing that is so great about it, is that it takes you away from that to-do list, it takes you away from the stress of how you're going to pay that bill, it takes you away from thinking about someone you know who is really ill. It gets you out of the dark side and gets you into the light because you're creating. Sometimes you make something and you can't even believe you made it. The majority of my work I'm like, 'how the hell did I paint that?' I have no idea, but I did because I tried and I had a positive attitude. [31:51] I love that, actually during one of your IG Lives when we did the rainbows, I actually make it into a card and gave that to a friend who lost their grandfather that week. It was really special for me to make something and put so much love into. I had never painted a rainbow before, and it sounds simple but it was meaningful. I liked that when people dm'ed you their paintings they were all beautiful and unique. Like you said, what is good art? I've been to places where there will be a huge canvas with a line painted through it, and I think 'well I could have done that!' So it's so funny. What's on your playlist when you're creating art? What are some of the songs you're listening to?  Oh gosh! You know what I do is I have Title, so I just do that radio. I play one song and I just radio similar music. I find I'm discovering new music. But I am, again, a sucker for the classics. There's something about old music. I listen to The Beach Boys, and the old stuff, like Dirty Dancing soundtrack. I love old music, I don't know what it is!? I'm obsessed with Stevie Nicks, I just love her voice; Fleetwood Mac; and I love Sinéad Harnett. There's no music I don't love in all honesty. Anyway that's just a little bit of what I love! [33:46] Love that! I would love to share any of your playlists if you have them. When we're ready to create, when we feel fired up I'm gonna put some good tunes on, where do we start when we step into this feeling of 'I'm going to be creating now' What do we do, where do we start?  So that's the hard part because I'm so glad I did quit my job and I did become an artist because you get a call to make art when you least expect it. You can have your paints set up and be ready to go, but you're just not feeling it that day, and that's just the reality of being an artist. I think that's the same for being a songwriter, or any medium. Some days just aren't your days. That's why there are so many other things to do when you do art as a business, like when I'm sitting here and I have that feeling come over my body and I'm like, 'I need to paint birds right now.' Like, I gotta stop what I'm doing and I have to go paint those birds! And I can have folders of inspiration of things to paint, but what I've learned as I've gotten more experienced  is that maybe later I don't want to paint those. What I learned when I was recovering from my car accident, I had this calling to paint butterflies. So I just had my stuff laid out on the table, and every time I had a calling I just went and grabbed my paintbrush and I painted something. And I would do it until I felt like I was done, and I would walk away. Then come back and paint another one. The nine magical butterflies were such a huge part of overcoming my trauma, and PTSD, and part of my future, and all the things, they saved me! And it's so weird because it's a painting, but that's when I realized the healing power of art, and magic, and mental health. and finding an outlet to release whatever you're feeling. My suggestion to anyone who is like, 'where do I start?' is get the supplies and put them out and practice, and when you get that calling, just make sure things are nearby. Because sometimes you might allocate time to paint. And I can do it now because I have other things like original art pieces and prints for the kimonos, and different things I can paint. So I can do watercolour Wednesday, but sometimes in the middle of the night I want to get up in the middle of the night and paint something - I'm probably going to do it! [36:33] Ya, love it. Just take action on it. If you're feeling that feeling just do it! And obviously, get the supplies ahead of time. I want to talk about your butterflies. What are the 9 Magical Butterflies? What do they symbolize? Basically it was TRANSFORMATION. I had to come from one place to another, and I didn't manifest this. I mean maybe I did, but I didn't know what I was doing. I just painted these butterflies and then I sort of decided to focus on something I needed to overcome while I was painting and creating the butterfly. I don't know why it was 9, I've never been attracted to the number 9, but when I painted the 9th butterfly I was done. And that was it. And then I went back and kind of dissected. So what they are, are basically steps to transforming any kind of rebirth you need in your life. So when I painted the first one, it was the FREEDOM Butterfly. My first stop was that I [felt] so stuck. I couldn't get out of my head, I wanted to be someone I'm not, I didn't know why I was alive. It was all the darkest things, you go through so much trauma and your mind is crazy. Your mind says things to you that you don't want to hear. I just wanted to be free. I wanted to be free from hating myself because I didn't want to have children, and feeling inadequate as a human. Everyone can compliment you on all the things, but when there's something substantial that you just can't have, you don't care about [anything else]; you just hate yourself. How do I love myself again? and one of them was freedom to let go of - genuinely let go - of the things I can't change. And I can't change those things. I'm not a bad person because of those things, I need to remind myself that I have to have the courage to believe that life is still beautiful without the things that I thought I had to have. And believe or not it is. So the Freedom Butterfly is the first. And it's the most powerful butterfly because it just proves that you have the ability to admit that you want to change, that you want help. [38:43] Then it goes onto the LOVE Butterfly. The Love Butterfly is you want to love yourself. You want to whole-heartedly love yourself so that other people can love you too. Because you cannot be loved without loving yourself. You're not really there. So once you have the freedom to let go, and once you accept that change, and trust in the Universe, then you have to love yourself. So that's the next butterfly. [39:13] Butterfly number three is HEALING. Now that you've loved yourself, you have the ability to heal. You have the ability heal from all the things that make you uncomfortable. Sometimes you can't love other people because you don't love yourself but it's because you don't see what it is that's blocking you. So healing is cutting that cord. And allowing yourself to accept others for now the things you didn't love them. Knowing that you might not be able to change them, but you can still love them. So this brings in other people. Taking things slow, and trusting in the speed. You know, the butterfly doesn't know how long it's going to be in the cocoon for, the caterpillar doesn't know when it's going to come out, but when it's ready it does. So that's the healing. You have to just trust that you need time. And that's when I miracle happens. Miracles come from really hard things, right? People pray for a miracle when their life is falling apart, when they thing they're going to die. When they're going to pray to God, they're going to find a Higher Power. That's when miracles are going to come in. Miracles can change in the fourth butterfly. Now you're healing, you love yourself. I don't know where this came from, but it just came out of me one day and I do this once a year now, I go through my butterflies and I do a ceremony. [40:39] Hope. Hope is keeping your spirit high, and finding a way to now achieve again. It's like, okay now I'm ready to believe that I can achieve great things. And maybe they weren't the things I originally thought, but what's my purpose? If you don't have something to hope for and dream for, then what's the point? So that's the next step. [41:07] PEACE. Peace is forgiveness in yourself, it's being at a point where you're able to accept everything that you are. Peace is a very important butterfly because it's gratitude; gratitude for where I've come. Surrendering to the things that you are. Having Harmony in the world around you. Because we all have so many excuses, all the time, every day. Have peace with who you are. Even if you're in a wheelchair or you can't see, you can play the goddamn piano if that's what you're meant to do! [41:55] PASSAGE. Passage is one of my favourite butterflies because we are ever transforming. We change every year, every month, every day. So passage is the butterfly still molding into its greatest self. This could be for someone going through a transformation in life, This could be for still overcoming. There's no sure thing, of I've accepted. You're still transitioning, you're still going through change. So it's they symbol to have positive intentions and a full heart and trust the process. [42:38] The HAPPINESS Butterfly is one of my favourites because it's just choosing happiness. A reminder to choose happiness. So every day we come across a point where we can focus on the negative or we can focus on the positive. And it's never a good thing to focus on the negative - ever. Always choose to focus on the happiness. Because ya, someone cuts you off and you give them the finger, and swear at them, and call you husband and tell him how someone cut you off, go to the grocery store and tell the person in line and constantly carrying the negative. Or you could let that [person] in and give them a wave and you're automatically going to feel better. So it's like do that with your life in a general sense. [42:23] And FRIENDSHIP is the final butterfly because you are friends with yourself, you're friends with the Universe, you're a companion, you're a comrade, you are able to be trusted. That's one of the hardest things like, are you trustworthy as a human? Why not? why yes? Are you loyal? Do you have love in your heart? Are you going to be there for someone? And in a world of being an entrepreneur and trying to embody female empowerment, there's room for all of us. So one of the things that I love is lifting other people up and showing someone how to do something instead of saying, 'oh sorry hunny, figure it out on your own.' I'd rather always lift somebody up, I'd rather always be that person and know that all you have is your impression. Like when you're a kid and you have an idol and you meet your idol and see them doing something dark, that's it, they're not your idol anymore. it's over. I'd rather always lift someone up and be a positive force. And all those things are a choice. All of them. And trust me, life's not easy. Life is hard. My family's gone through some hard stuff, I've gone through some hard stuff, and just know that other people have too, and you're not alone. The world is full of hardship, we are all so blessed. So this whole movement of my 9 Magical Butterflies is pretty much my motto for life. What I love is that with every chapter of this book, you can paint a butterfly. And it's different every time. I do it, and I paint butterflies like crazy because they're so beautiful  and I do abstract, and I do real butterflies, but what I find is that, with each of these butterflies, you can read the book every year, it's kind of like a cleansing to transform. And every time you read it, you and you do the butterflies can have one goal. And you can do as many times to really fulfil the one goal. For me, this book healed me form infertility. Do I have children? No. Am I at peace? one million percent. Did I find my purpose? I sure did. Am I building it slowly and sustainably? Yes! Even if  something else tragic happened I know that I overcame the last one, and this gives me hope that I will be able to overcome the next one. [45:53] That's so beautiful, you didn't say this before. Are your 9 Magical Butterflies going to be a book?  Ya! I am almost finished my book, book is a big one! It takes a lot of editing, fine tuning, and a lot of focus. I've never been a writer, but I am a story teller, so however that comes out. I'm working with a really beautiful friend of mine, Karen and she is editing and is like my little fairy godmother pixie who takes it and cleans it up without taking away my voice. So that's the thing I really wanted this book to be really true to me and not influenced by anybody Elise because it came so organically that I want to be able to share and help other women overcome their obstacles and become their best selves. You know, I just paint, and what I realized was that the one thing that made me heal, so I chose that blessing to make a formula to help other people. And you don't have to be good at art, that's the thing. This is for everybody: for people who are amazing at art, and for people who have never picked up a paintbrush. When I paint with my nieces, I just love how free they are. I want people to experience the freeness and not to do this for any other reason, but to just let go. [47:32] Are you calling the book, 9 Magical Butterflies?  Yes, that is the book. It's basically like my story and a workbook. So the workbook is something you can do once, twice, a million times. But my story, goes deeper into each chapter of the book. So I really talk about where I had to overcome the things I've had to. It was hard to write, it was very emotional, I think I bawled my eyes out for every chapter. And to go back a bit, I never wanted to share my fertility struggles. When I first made a post, it was an accident. I didn't want anyone to know that I couldn't have children, I was so ashamed, I was so embarrassed, I felt like a failure, again. It was an awful feeling. And I know that there's a lot of women out there who can relate with me because they just don't understand why. And when the doctor tells you it's unexplained and there's nothing we can do... What are you supposed to do? Jump off the frickin bridge? Because honestly, that's what it felt like. But instead, I was like, you know what, I'm going to write this post and I'm just going to say this is how I'm feeling for myself. I accidentally put it in Hoot Suite and I actually programmed it to be posted and I woke up, and I had my phone blowing up. And I shared that I had fertility struggles and I looked at my phone and I was like OH NO!!! I ran outside to [my husband] and I couldn't believe what I had done and I thought it was really wrong and I was so ashamed that I did the post and he hugged me and said he was so proud and how good I must have felt. and everyone was sending me dm's and telling me how much they love me. And I was so [surprised]. But if you share the things that are hurting you, you're going to heal. Like secrets aren't meant to be secrets, they're meant to save other people from their trauma. We need each other. The world needs each other because we've all gone through such hard stuff, and coming forward. That's the first step to healing. Hold that shit inside and you'll never fly. The weight will take you down too far. So that was a very pivotal moment to let people know how good it felt to that I'm not perfect at all. And then I wanted to start to share more, and talk to people who are really struggling and help them find another positive place to put their energy. I didn't know I was going to share this much with you, but it's just so much apart of the book and the future, so pain births purpose people! The more pain, the better the story, the better the recovery. We got this. [50:43] Ya, I love that, and I think it's perfect because it ties into what you said, we need to have that freedom butterfly first. We need to free ourselves from the shame and the holding onto the pain. It might take awhile to release, but if you're not allowing it. If you're not giving it that space to let go, the healing is going to take that much longer. WOW! I cannot wait for this book. When do you think we'll be getting it?  I actually have picked the release date. It's not until 2021, I have this whole beautiful project I'm doing surrounding it. So I said let's slow down and I picked September the 9th, and they're the 9 magical butterflies and September is the 9th month. The people 'm publishing with, they reached out to me. Honestly I had no idea but 9 is a magical healing number and this story is amazing, you have a book here. We want more. We want to hear about every chapter. That's how it came to be. Two years after I did the blogpost I'm realizing it. September 9th, 2021. People who are interested [in the book] can go to my link in bio instagram.com/artofmarina and sign up for my 9 Magical Butterflies mailing list. I will have beautiful tools for people and a 9 week challenge where before you buy the book you can go on this journey with me, and I'll have videos as kind of a bonus before I release the book, so you can see if it's for them. And prepare you if you want to get your art supplies and things like that, you can be ready. It's a journey! And I just want to guide people to experimenting with art and mental health and finding their truest and deepest purpose. [52:53] I love it! I'm definitely going to be signing up. [54:13] I do want to talk about your brand a little bit before I let you go, but one of my favourite parts of your business is that you're Slow Fashion and that you care about the environment. This has been something that has really shifted for me as well. Tell me a little bit more about the sustainability of your brand.  Yes absolutely, so the whole concept is to wear smart and not fast fashion, like look at a product and see its originality and origin. So each of my pieces is designed and made with love and I use luxury sustainability. So really like eco friendly fibers biodegradable my inks are non toxic, they're slow fashion, like, people should understand and learn that term mass fashion is made from toxic inks. Master production synthetic fibers that will pollute the planet, and so on. All my prints are engineered and designed as a placed fringe so essentially they fit each garment. I do not print bowls of fabric, when you put bolts of fabric, things are cut and there's ways there's waste in the, in the fabric there's waste in the inks. There's just waste. So when I, when I print each kimono they're printed separately and then they're sewn, so really it's just so like there's no waste. And that makes a huge difference in the long run because not only is it ethical and sustainable it's non toxic games but now there's no waste so really you're buying a piece of art, you're buying something that will last and, you know, environments thought about. We use mulberry silk, and we use model. Model is made from beech wood trees, so it's also like eco friendly and biodegradable it's cooling and antibacterial, so it was silk mulberry silk is the best silk it's just beautiful on the skin it cools it doesn't make you sweat up like, if you see like a kimono that's made out of like a poly silk. I'm breathable, you will sweat, it's, it's not good for the environment it's like man made fibers it's all the bad day, so it's luxury, and it's beautiful. And we're original so my, my art is my art, nobody else has it, I make limited quantities of my kimonos and most of them are made to order. So, next year I'll be releasing all new prints so all the ones I have right now will no longer be available. And it's just the wife couldn't create new, and then you'll realize when you own one of my pieces that it might never come back real numbers and I will have, you know, limited edition so 100 of each print, but these are all stepping stones and that's where I want to get to. My values, align with the planet. So, obviously, as I mentioned in the beginning of our reporting is just the ocean, the sea, the animals that thrive in the world, and on our planet are my inspiration, so of course I want to keep the planet healthy and vibrant three years and I want my kids to go to Hanauma Bay and Hawaii and snorkel and actually see fish and I want, you know, the sharks to stay in the ocean and not be just taken out for their fingers like I want the planet to stay beautiful so once I have a profitable company to the point where I can give back. I will be giving back to those charities so sciama, you know, clean water programs so I'm resourcing and finding sorry not resourcing I'm sourcing and learning and educating on where that money will go because there's so much charity that it's hard to find the right ones so as I'm growing and I've doubled my you know revenue last year even through a pandemic people are supporting local and it's amazing. So now I'm like Okay How can I not just be organic and ethical but how can I now give back to the planet, and obviously it's going to be related to the ocean and the seas, and the animals that thrive there because that's what inspires me the most. [58:32] Because that's what inspires me the most. I love that that's so perfect so actually last year I dedicated the entire year to not buying any clothes because I was so appalled by how many clothes I had and how much of it was fast fashion. And I just kept telling myself like, I don't need another pair of yoga pants like I don't need any more clothes. I can't keep looking at this massive closet full of clothes and saying, I have nothing to wear like ice there's so many options, why, why am I feeling programmed to to believe this so I dedicated the entire year to not buying any clothes and it wasn't as hard, it was, it was crazy like it wasn't as hard as I thought it was gonna be but it was really interesting and how like I had to really prepare like I had to like unsubscribe from different clothing stores and different and unfollow different pages online and then I really wanted one of your couple knows, and I was kind of like well it's supporting local business. But then I found out about your sustainability and how yours, like it's slow fashion and I was like okay well you know what this is something that is, it's something so beautiful It's art. And now that I have it like I love the way it feels. It's so beautiful. It feel I feel good to wear it and it was one of those things where I'm like I bought this knowing that I'm supporting your friend I'm supporting a local business.   I'm not contributing to environmental waste like I would have if I bought fast fashion. And the way that it makes me feel and it's like that intention behind what you're purchasing and it's made me more mindful so I absolutely love it and I'm like, I want all of your pieces. I don't know if I can afford every single one of them and I'm like oh no, don't, don't, don't get rid of all the prints because I love them so much but I also can't wait to see what else you create because I know which is going to be so amazing so thank you for sharing that. And I noticed that a lot of your pieces have to do with like nature, whether it's flowers or palms waves, and even animals in nature but is there anything else, or someone or something else that inspires you to create or something right now maybe that's going on. [1:00:48] 100% I started with fashion illustration right so when I was younger, I've always been obsessed with beautiful women. I've always been obsessed with the women like I just love femininity, like my favorite artists were Alphonse mukha from, you know, like that our new bow style with the lady is four seasons and the women with fruit everywhere and hair. So, an all and to slip track with like dancers and Edgar Degas with the ballerinas like I've always been attracted to femininity. So, my first ever inspiration were models in magazines like I just was an author of beauty so that's where I started drawing was like I wanted to try to draw the faces. And I've always had role models and even though my mom's friends growing up, I'd be like Auntie, you know, Carrie who and Auntie, you know, Lou who would come over and those women would inspire me I've always been really attracted to the power of feminine energy. So, I'm part of my concept is girl power. Wearing magical capes that make you feel beautiful female empowerment quote. So I started drawing up my, I'm not a type I request I just scribble out, you know, the future is female and all that powerful feminine clothes that I put them up in those style, more than my watercolors so it's kind of amazing that female and feminine energy is a huge part of my inspiration. So, I want to just constantly attract people who have positive intentions and core values and, and always just be a female feminist power empowerment section where planet major I'm a nerd sure I'm not a mother but I want to nurture the planet with love. And so that's my way of being mom kinda because it like I have my animals and love just inspiring others, and so yeah female empowerment women of all ethnicities. I love painting. Every single woman on the planet so if you go through my Instagram you'll see there's all times. And then, I like the fantasy aspects. So mermaid unicorn, and to be. I was very much in love with all the Disney movies like Cinderella, and the Little Mermaid. I definitely still have that magic in my heart and I like to create the unicorns and all things like that because I do have a fancy side so that's about it it's a little bit fancy a little bit of answer and a whole bunch of girl power. [1:03:36] Amazing, totally perfect for for the show. Okay, let's get into our rapid fire round I'm gonna ask you four questions, are you ready? I think so I had notes with like stuff that I don't know I'm just gonna freestyle this. RAPID FIRE ROUND: [1:03:49] Even better. Question number one, what are you currently reading or what's your favourite book? Okay, so I just read Untamed, Glennon Doyle, I read a Marie Forleo's Everything is Figureoutable and all those last two that I read. I'm into these like Girl Power stuff and both amazing books. My favorite book is probably The Alchemist, just love that book I read it all the time, every few years. And I also love a good bio so one that really resonated with me was Phil Knight's Shoe Dog is the story of Nike, and I just loved how he had kind of the same. There's a lot of similarities in the two of us. Obviously I didn't create Nike, but I loved that it was a journey of one man, and it took a whole bunch of people to get to where you want to go. Well, and believe in themselves, that takes a lot arresting a business owner and spent a lot of money and I believe in myself so that was a really great book to read about true story about an entrepreneur. But Glennon Doyle is like my favourite now, I'm obsessed with her.   [1:04:54] Question number two, what are you currently working toward? Oh, I'm working on my book. I'm trying to build this store in the wine country of Naramata. A little bit of licensing or learning about sharing my art with other people and opportunities, and I'm really trying to do more collaboration. So, I would love to make Kimon's like visco kimonos, or other women, like, I want to make one out if there's somebody out there who wants a custom kimono come to me it's not always about making a line so I really want to work with strong powerful women and make them their magical cape that they can wear on stage or wear at home in their house, or you know whatever sore more collaborations with awesome women. [1:05:50] I love that I have some ideas, and I will talk about them later. Question number three, what do you love most about being a woman? Oh, that's a tough one, I can't believe I didn't know that question was coming. What I love most about being a woman is my feminine energy. It's my ability to love. It's m heart. I cry all the time, I am very passionate, I love to nature. [1:06:22] Question number four: What does empowerment mean to you? It means staying true to who you are, no matter if it feels wrong. Glennon Doyle talks a lot about that in Untamed. So for me it's like, even if everyone else doesn't agree with you but you truly believe in what it is. Stand true to yourself. That's the empowerment.  [1:06:48] Thank you so much Marina! INSTAGRAM | @artofmarina SHOP/WEBSITE 

LEARN MORE ABOUT THE CONTENT DISCUSSED...• Kristina's Website: https://kristinasjolund.com• Unleashed Facebook Group: http://unleashedinsiders.com• Kristina’s Instagram: @kristinaunleashed SHOW NOTES:•  I am incredibly blessed to be in the position that I'm in in my life. I am financially stable, I am financially secure, I don't worry too much. Even now, I feel like I need to hold back because I don't want somebody to feel bad. I don't want somebody to be offended by me saying that I'm in a great financial position. Am I proud of that? Hell yes, I am. And I should be. (5:33)•   I'm constantly in a working and growth mode in order to move forward with my life. And every once in a while, something comes and gets me, so I'm not perfect in all of this, but I know that I have to have these conversations with myself on a regular basis to put myself in check. I know I've talked before about doing a self-audit... I do that. I do that sometimes. I'm like, 'Okay, well, what are you doing? Are you holding yourself back because of what other people are thinking? Or what other people are maybe doing, or not doing? Don't do that. Don't allow them to get in your way, because it really comes down to you. Especially if you are building a business of your own. (9:23)•  I want my own freedom, but again, I don't fault someone else who does do that. But those people are going to say, 'Well, it's Friday night. Yeah, it's Friday night and I'm working, I'm working. There's people who go camping over the weekend, I'm working over the weekend. And I'm good with that. I'll take phone calls at 7 o'clock in the morning or 9 o'clock at night, whatever it is. And they're like, 'Oh, you're always working... Yeah, I am. Because I'm building an empire. My empire. My building hours are not eight to five. But I've got a lot of free time in between where I can fill that, I can do things. If I don't feel like taking a call at a particular time, then I don't take a call at a particular time, I'm open. I'm free.(11:54)•  Oh, I've got a friend. I've got a friend who says she builds full-time families. How would that be? That's what I want. I want a full-time family, I don't want to be putting in the commute time. I'm not going to let somebody else's words hold me back. And, If I outperform people in my circle, I'm going to step into another circle where there's people who are out performing me, that are going to make me kick it up a notch so that I can perform better. (14:17)•  When I started making my list, I'm like, Damn. Okay, okay, I killed it, I killed it. But you know what, I can do more. I've got to step it up. So I want you to keep that in mind because I know that if it comes up, especially if it comes up more than once in a week, there's a reason for that. If it comes up more than a week, you're going to hear me talking about it with you, because if it's that often out there, somebody else is feeling that as well... It's very common. (15:07) WHEN DOES IT AIR...September 02, 2020

What's the guilty pleasure you wish you could shake? It may surprise you to know that the cupcake you regret eating isn't actually the problem - to find a way to break your unhealthy habits, you're going to need to go a lot deeper.  Mitch Newman is a relationship advisor, coach and podcast host who specializes in “conscious awareness,” or, how to get out of your own way and find success in your relationships with others, yourself, and everything around you. Mitch has been featured on FOX, BRAVO’s Millionaire Matchmaker and numerous publications across all types of media.   On this episode of More with Mandy, Mandy and Mitch talk about the practice of conscious awareness, developing a sustainably healthy lifestyle based on choices, intentional mindset work and regular “pit stops,” and the continuous process of building your own success with small-scale changes that lead to big results. Join the conversation to turn your baggage into building blocks for a bright future.  You’ll Learn   What your dog’s behaviors can tell you about your own emotional state and how it manifests Why continuing to use the term “cheat day” is holding you back from a healthy relationship with your habits How to make better decisions about your approach to food using the 3 H’s Mitch relies on  And much more! Favorite Quote So life is about flow. And if we can start looking at it and say, 'Okay, so I've been up and down over the years in the past. I've been up and down with food and I've been up and down with a lot of not so great habits and choices and using it to hide in a lot of ways, and I want to do it differently, so what are some of the tweaks and adjustments that I can make in the process of that so I don't keep repeating the old patterns and the old behaviors?' Because if you want to get better in life, you're going to have to leave the past behind.”  - Mitch Newman Connect with Mitch Newman Instagram  Magical Moments with Mitch podcast How to get involved The More with Mandy Show is your smorgasbord of advice on low carb/keto nutrition, simple mindset hacks and motivational stories that will inspire you to challenge the status quo, overcome to become and get MORE out of life.  Follow me on Facebook and Instagram, text me at 6103457014, and use the code #down15 for a copy of my e-book on how I lost 15lbs with no restrictive diet plan. Loved this episode? Visit us on Apple Podcasts, subscribe and leave a review. Your feedback means the world, and we would love it if you'd help us spread the word!

I’ve been working on an assignment with the 2CCXers, and I want to share one of my big takeaways that I had last night. I want to share something with you that I’ve been thinking about a lot lately. We just launched our new Two Comma Club X coaching program a couple months ago, and one of the first things I asked everyone in the program to do (almost 400 coaching students)… Was to TRASH their current email address! WHAAAT!!!!

Maintaining a healthy romantic relationship is never simple. But it can be even more complicated when one of the partners experiences adult ADHD. Dr. Sam Jinich and Alexine Thompson FSP, LMFT, EFT discuss the importance of recognizing the effects of adult ADHD and hypersensitivity on romantic relationships, and how partners can be empathetic and compassionate towards one another. Learn coping mechanisms and how to address and work together to find solutions rather than focus on the negative. "All these gifts, all these riches, and it's just a different way of thinking. And we have to, I think as a couple, it's most helpful when you can go, 'Okay, it's not normal, not normal or right or wrong, it's different.'"--Alexine ThompsonFurther Resources: Some of the ideas and concepts shared here come from leading expert Melissa Orlov's book, The ADHD Effect on Marriage: Understand and Rebuild Your Relationship in Six Steps.

Motive without motion is meaningless. There can come a time in your life when it's time to move instead of praying further. You've prayed enough. Now it's time to take action. Pastor Greg Laurie helps us put feet to our prayers when the Lord is saying, 'Okay, whatever. Start walking!' Support the show: https://harvest.org/resources/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Kari Lizer is best known for her work in television, as writer and co-executive producer of Will & Grace and the creator of The New Adventures of Old Christine. When her essays about parenting took the shape of a book, she found that her real life provided more than enough material for a comedic memoir. Aren’t You Forgetting Someone? has it all - chickens, Kate Middleton’s bangs, psychics, and the promise of happy endings. #AmReadingJess: Beach Read by Emily HenrySarina: The Worst Best Man by Mia SosaKari: Olive, Again by Elizabeth StroutSubscription links and a transcript follow—but first, a preview of the #MinisodeMonday that will be dropping into #AmWriting supporter inboxes on Monday, July 20th: How an Editor Considers an Essay. Not joined that club yet? You’ll want to get on that. Support the podcast you love AND get weekly #BonusContent with actionable advice you can use for just $7 a month. As always, this episode (and every episode) will appear for all subscribers in your usual podcast listening places, totally free as the #AmWriting Podcast has always been. This shownotes email is free, too, so please—forward it to a friend, and if you haven’t already, join our email list and be on top of it with the shownotes and a transcript every time there’s a new episode. To support the podcast and help it stay free, subscribe to our weekly #WritersTopFive email.This episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwriting for details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s Inside-Outline template.Find more about Jess here, Sarina here and about KJ here.If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship.Transcript (We use an AI service for transcription, and while we do clean it up a bit, some errors are the price of admission here. We hope it’s still helpful.)KJ Dell'Antonia 0:00 Writers it's KJ here. Before we get to the interview, which is Jess and Sarina talking to the very funny Kari Lizer I wanted to share a little about our new sponsor, Dabble. I wrote my last book in a mad combination of Word and Scrivener and it worked fine. But putting the whole thing together in the end was hard and I accidentally left out a chapter of a draft confusing everyone. With dabble, the whole book is always just sitting there already compiled and together as a unit and easy to navigate around in as chapters or scenes. It is magical and it can't wait to make full use of it this time around. Give it a spin at dabblewriter.com and let us know what you think. Is it recording? Jess Lahey 0:43 Now it's recording. KJ Dell'Antonia 0:45 This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone trying to remember what I'm supposed to be doing.Jess Lahey 0:49 Alright, let's start over. KJ Dell'Antonia 0:51 Awkward pause. I'm gonna rustle some papers. Okay, now one, two, three.Jess Lahey 1:02 Hey, this is the #AmWriting podcast with Jess Lahey and Sarina Bowen, KJ is off this week. This is the podcast where we talk about all the things - all the writing things, the researching, the editing. I'm just about to start editing today, actually. So we'll probably slip in and mention of that - writing romance, writing fiction, writing nonfiction, writing all the things we love to talk about. And this is definitely the podcast though, first and foremost, about getting the writing done. I'm Jessica Lahey I'm the author of The Gift of Failure and the forthcoming The Addiction Inoculation that will be out next year, April 2021. And you can find my work at the Atlantic, The New York Times, The Washington Post, and other lovely places like Airmail recently, actually.Sarina Bowen 1:47 And I'm Sarina Bowen I'm the author of 35 romance novels. My most recent USA Today bestseller is called Sure Shot and you can find more about me at sarinabowen.com.Jess Lahey 1:59 So can I just say one thing? I was I was tooling around on Facebook looking for something and all of a sudden, I noticed that you dropped like an additional thing to Sure Shot. And I simply do not understand when you write all the things. I don't understand how you write all the things, you write everything and you write stuff that you don't even tell us about, and launch it out into the world and it makes my head spin.Sarina Bowen 2:22 Well, thank you, I think. Yes, I did have a couple chapter prequel that I put into an anthology that someone was putting together and it really wasn't the world's greatest accomplishment there, Jess, but thanks anyway.Jess Lahey 2:39 Alright, well, we have a guest this week, and I'm really, really excited about this guest because we have found out that number one, we have some things in common that we need to talk about, but also because this book almost made me late for this interview because I was having so much fun reading it, I couldn't put it down. It is so funny. Without further ado, I would like to introduce Kari Lizer. Her new book is called Aren't You Forgetting Someone?: Essays From My Midlife Revenge? And, okay, we've talked before about getting blurbs and this woman, this book, she's got some blurbs on this book. It's a very funny book. She is a former executive producer and writer for Will and Grace. And that's going to figure into a little tiny bit of the conversation today. But Kari, thank you so much for being on the show today.Kari Lizer 3:35 Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here.Jess Lahey 3:37 Such a delightful book. And it's not just because a lot of the action happens in Vermont and Sarina has written an entire series that is a romance series based completely on a fictional small town in Vermont. There are chickens, there are lots of animals. And so we've got that angle going on, but we we also have the devotedly introverted sort of thing going on, obviously the writer thing going on as well. So we're just really excited to talk with you today. Kari Lizer 4:17 It's nice to have that in common. It's a specific thing for sure. Vermont people are a certain kind of people, I know that.Jess Lahey 4:27 We're reading this book at a really interesting time because most of the book is about just the thrill people get (people like us) tend to get when someone says something is canceled. And everything's canceled right now. So how are you doing? We're recording this at the beginning of June, on June 11. So we've all been on our own or at least in close proximity to very few other people. How are you doing?Kari Lizer 5:00 Well, I spent the first few months of this lockdown shut-in period in Los Angeles, which was very different than it feels here in Vermont. It was stranger there for sure. I had one of my kids home with me. And it was a little bit harder to navigate there. It wasn't that different lifestyle wise for me than my normal life though, because I do spend a lot of time at home. I'm an introvert, I write at home. I don't venture out unless I absolutely have to. But it did get strange and I did start to feel the walls closing in on me for sure. I mean, just the lack of outdoor space. I mean, because the trails were closed and the parks were closed. I have four dogs. Going outside with them, it just felt like we were just on top of each other a little bit. So made the decision to hop in a car and drive across the country with the four dogs and come to Vermont. Because there's more wide open spaces, so it's feeling a little bit like I've been released from prison a little bit. But, you know, there are other challenges here in terms of of being quarantined and you know, there's the 14 days here in Vermont that I have to isolate myself from other people and so, you know, it's challenging. Listen, I don't have it as bad as a lot of people have it, I have a lot to keep me occupied. And I can do my job here. I'm starting up a new TV show and I can do my writers room on Zoom. And it's just it's not that bad. I've had things to occupy me, so I'm pretty lucky as it goes, honestly.Jess Lahey 7:06 Well, actually the fact that we're in the middle of this. We're in the middle of a country protesting right now over George Floyd's death, there's so much going on that has rendered... In fact, a couple weeks ago, we recorded a podcast where we just felt like our hearts weren't in it. And one of the things you write really beautifully about in this book is being able to write when other things in your life are not necessarily going the way you would like. In fact, you mentioned in the book that you were writing for Will and Grace at the same time that you had a divorce and you had your sister's death going on. So that sort of stuck out for me because at a time right now when I could be super productive, I'm finding it really, really difficult to put my heart in my work and I would love to know how you worked through some of that?Kari Lizer 8:01 Well, I mean, I think it's easier when you have assignments, a television writer, I think it is a little bit easier under those circumstances because you have to, I mean, you have deadlines and those kind of things, I find it a little bit harder too under these circumstances, when I can write if I want to and I'm a lot less productive now. It was very strange that I left Los Angeles just as things were sort of bubbling up. And by the time I got here, the world had sort of exploded, I mean, I just left when COVID was happening. And then the protests hadn't really started yet. So I feel strangely isolated from all of that and it feels like things are happening so far away from me, so I feel very distracted by that too. I think it's certainly easier for me to write, obviously, when I have people waiting for things to come to them, you know. I mean, I'm a goody two shoes always, so I will always turn things in when people need them, but left to my own devices I can't always get it going either. I mean, sometimes it is hard to motivate myself I mean, I always have this fantasy that all I need is a cabin in the woods and then I'll sit and I'll churn out novels one after the other and I don't write a word. If I've ever rented a beach house or something with this romantic notion that I'm going to write things, not a word comes out of me at those kind of places, I need busy, I need chaos, I need something. The more that's going on the more I can't seem to write so... Jess Lahey 9:28 Yeah, I'm deadline oriented, too. And Sarina, you know, self publishes her work and she does so much of the work herself and she's so good about self imposed deadlines. There was a great quote Shonda Rhimes at one point said, 'Writing for television is like laying tracks while you're actually in the train.' Is that an experience that rings true for you?Kari Lizer 9:51 That's about right, yeah. There is an oncoming train at all times. It just feels like an impossible job and somehow it gets done. And I function really well under those circumstances. You know, the more pressure the better, from the book you can tell I when I had children underfoot, the younger the better, the more children the better. Throw a little cancer in there and then I I thrive. When I have less going on, and I have all the time in the world, and it's sort of leisurely, I can maybe write a chapter or two but I think I was sort of cut out for the television world because it is just writing under the most serious duress that you can imagine.Sarina Bowen 10:39 Can I ask - is Aren't You Forgetting Someone? your first thing that you wrote that was intended to be a book with two covers on it at a bookstore?Kari Lizer 10:49 It is and it didn't really start out that way. I took a little hiatus from television when my third kid went off to college, and I just I wanted to sort of do something different creatively. And I was part of this writers group because as we're talking about, I am deadline oriented and I found that I wasn't writing anything when I was left to my own devices. And so I found what was really helpful for me, was sitting around a table with other writers who were working on novels and essays and various kinds of writing. And I had to show up every week at this table. And it gave me a deadline of sorts that I wanted to show up with something. And so I started writing these essays not knowing what they were or where they were going to belong or just even I thought maybe it was a pilot, maybe it was a movie I just really didn't know I wasn't writing it for for anything except myself, except to have a different sort of creative experience. But I did do it in a group and that really helped me with that sort of accountability piece that I need to to keep myself moving forward. And then it just sort of piled up and and you know became this book but I didn't really know when I started what it was.Jess Lahey 12:12 Well and it wouldn't have been out of the ordinary for you if this had turned into a script because the New Adventures of Old Christine that you also wrote was based on your life, correct?Kari Lizer 12:23 Loosely, yeah. Sort of my fantasy of what my life might have been if I was better at my life, if I were Julia Louis-Dreyfus then yeah my life would look like that, but not quite. But yeah, loosely based on my divorce and those years after my divorce.Jess Lahey 12:42 Our listeners love to hear sort of the the nuts and bolts, like the nitty gritty stuff about the writing, and how the words get on the page. And so you've got this group that's helping you get deadlines done. You're getting some essays out there. What's the point for you where you realize that this is a book and not a movie or a pilot? Kari Lizer 13:01 Well, it was sort of at the encouragement of this group of people that I was with. Which I can't express enough how helpful that was to have feedback from a supportive group of people. For me, it was really valuable. Because I didn't know and I felt a little lost in it and I was insecure about it. It was just not a genre that I was used to writing and I didn't know, it felt embarrassing to me to write such personal stuff. It felt like I was writing my diary a little bit and it felt a little bit like who really cares about this stuff, and is it interesting, is it braggy, what is it exactly? And it was great to have that encouragement of other people saying, just keep writing, don't think about what people think about it, just keep moving forward, and don't stop down to think about the reaction to it. And that was really helpful to me and worry about what it is after the fact. And so when I looked at it, and then I was able to sort of put it together and it's like, oh, there is sort of a narrative here, there is sort of a theme. And I'm a huge fan of David Sedaris, for instance and I read a lot of essays, and I read a lot of comic essays in particular. And so I thought, Oh, well, that's sort of what this is seeming like and I got some outside people to say, 'Well, here's where there are holes in this narrative, and here's where you need to fill it in.' And I really took some advice from people who had some sort of objective eyes on it. And then I started sort of shaping it into a book as opposed to just a pile of what felt like diary entries. You know, I needed to sort of turn it into something that was more than just musings and try to tell a story with it.Jess Lahey 15:05 Alright, so this is a publishing industry, nitty gritty question. So our co-host, KJ Dell'Antonia, she and I have the same agent and our agent represents nonfiction she just doesn't really do fiction. So in order to sell KJ's novel she had to pair up with another agent in the same agency that does fiction. So my question to you is, if you have an agent who you know has been representing you for your work in Hollywood, do you need to go to a new person in order to sell a book or can you use your same agent in order to sell to a traditional publisher?Kari Lizer 15:40 Well, fortunately I had just gone to a new television agent in Los Angeles, but it was a giant conglomerate agency that has a lot of different arms. So I went to them and I sort of brought this pile of essays to them, and it was this conference room of suited men, you know. And basically, I felt like I was bringing them my uterus on a platter. And I was like, here I have this and I'm sure they were expecting me to bring them a television show because that's where I make the money. And that's where they make money. And I said, 'I have this and this is sort of what I'm really on fire about right now. Is there anything you can do with this?' And to their credit, they read it, they loved it. They said, 'Well, this isn't what we do. But our agency in New York, let's give it to the lead agency in New York, if they're interested, and they want to take it on great, and we'll give it our best shot. And so that worked out and the people in New York took it and gave me some advice about it. And when it went out the first time they sent it around and it didn't get picked up by anybody. And so then I took it back, and I worked on it some more, and I filled in what I thought were the sort of holes in it, and I realized it wasn't quite finished. And I kept writing and then I went out again with it same agents to their credit, they didn't give up on it. And then the next time around it found its home. So it was really a process.Jess Lahey 17:10 That's really tough, to send something out that's been out and then you're gonna work on it for a little bit and send it out again, that's kudos to your agents because that's an incredibly difficult thing to do and something that most agents are actually pretty reluctant to do. Kari Lizer 17:24 Yeah, I'm very grateful to them and for their sort of sustained belief in it because it was really a process and it was a business that I didn't know anything about. So I was completely in their hands and I had to trust them and just believe that it was gonna work out the way it was supposed to. So I think I was very lucky. And also in good hands with them that they kept the faith, honestly.Jess Lahey 17:57 So you haven't always identified as a writer, you identified for a long time as an actor and I have to ask about the line in your book about the psychic Teresa who felt the vibrations in your keychain. You say you became a writer because of Teresa feeling the vibration in your keychain. And I have to know more, like where is that story?Kari Lizer 18:24 Well I'll probably write that one someday I just was an actor from when I was a kid. I started when I was 11 going on commercial auditions, I lived pretty close to Los Angeles and my mother would drive me in and I started doing commercials and that was sort of it for me. I didn't go to college because I already knew what I wanted to be when I grew up and I just went directly into Hollywood. And I worked pretty consistently, I did television shows and pilots and I thought well this is worked out great and I made a living as an actress until I was about 30 years old and then it stopped. I mean, it came to a grinding halt in a way that was terrifying and then nothing, I mean just nothing and I slowly sold the house that I bought, the car, I mean just everything dried up, and I had nothing to fall back on. You know, as your parents tell you to have something to fall back on I had nothing, I had no skills. I couldn't even wait tables. I mean, when I lived in New York for two years, I got fired from every waitress job I ever had. I mean, I don't know how to do anything, honestly. And it was really scary. And I went to a psychic that somebody recommended and she said she had to hold on to my keychain. And she said that if I continued to be an actor, I would be moderately successful. But if I was a writer, I would be successful beyond my wildest dreams. I was so upset. First of all, it seemed like so much work, you know, it's just like, no, I don't want to be a writer that sounds horrible. But I thought, oh, okay, so you know, I didn't have any other choices. I mean, there was no other options. I was really in bad shape. I was dead broke. So I wrote, I was earning money at the time. My only skill was I could type, my only good subject in school was typing.Jess Lahey 20:25 That's such a good starting place for the whole writing thing. Kari Lizer 20:30 It is I mean, it's a great skill. And in fact, I was earning my rent at the time typing (because we were typing at the time) scripts for a friend of mine who was a writer. I was getting 50 cents a page to type his scripts up. And so I went home and I wrote a like a spec pilot and then I wrote a play, I just had to write a play. And I gave it to this friend of mine, who I was typing his scripts for, he liked it so much that he said, You know what, I'm going to put this up in a theater, I'm going to produce it and put it up in a theater. And we'll invite all the friends from showbiz that I know and all the ones that you know, and we'll see if we can get you a job I said, but I'm going to star it because what I really want is an acting job. And so I starred it, and he put it in theater, and I got offers to write, an agent came and said, 'I would like to represent you as a writer.' I didn't get a single acting offer, which is all I wanted, and it was devastating, but it started my writing career. Because of this person who believed in me, which is often how it starts, you know, somebody helps you out. And it was just crazy. You know, I had no business doing any of it. I didn't know if I could write I'd never tried to, but it was just pure desperation and then ultimately, just sort of dumb luck. And it just turned out. I think I'd absorbed enough. You know, I had read enough scripts, I acted in enough things, I think I had sort of absorbed structure and those kind of things by osmosis maybe a little bit. I don't know, who knew it could have turned out very differently, but I was very lucky.Sarina Bowen 22:14 Well, that's how most novelists start, right? Like they've read a whole lot of novels. And they've sort of absorbed it. But I have two questions for you. The first one is if you could just slip me that psychic's contact information.Kari Lizer 22:31 Yeah, I don't know what happened to her.Sarina Bowen 22:35 The second one is, so it's well documented in Aren't You Forgetting Someone that your grown children are never going to ask your opinion about anything important, but if they did, if one of your three ungrateful humans came today and said, 'Okay, Mom, I want to be a writer. Should I write a book or should I write for TV?' How would you handle that question? Because a lot of our listeners are thinking about all the different ways they are accomplishing the writing dream and what's your thought about that?Kari Lizer 23:13 Well, I don't think I would say one or the other. I think that writing is writing. And I think I don't think I found a big difference between writing this book and writing for television. I think the main thing that I brought to this book that I try to bring to television writing is telling my true stories, and I think that's when I have found success in both genres. So just trying to be authentic. So I would say, wherever that story seems to find its place. And honestly, I mean, I've had things that have started out as plays and it's like, oh, this isn't sort of finding its way as a play and it turns into a short story or it turns into something else. And I think sometimes not to know what it wants to be is okay, too. I mean, that's certainly my process a lot of times, that not sort of being too sure about what your endgame is, but sort of working your way through the process, and figuring out sort of what story it is you want to tell, and figuring out sort of what form it takes, and where you're going to end up later, like that's a question for later. But figure out what story you want to tell first I mean, for me that that works better. If I get all caught up in Oh, what network is it going to be on? Because I know a lot of people that do that in television, who would star in this or what network would it be on? If I start putting the cart before the horse I get completely blocked, then I can't think about the story or then things don't come to life for me anymore. I'm just not thinking about the right things anymore. I think I have to let the story the story speak first and then figure out those other details after the fact.Sarina Bowen 25:27 AwesomeJess Lahey 25:28 When I first started writing for a bigger audience, I remember my father read something that (you know, I started my writing, especially when I was a teacher on just this blog) and my father read something that was for suddenly for a bigger audience and he called me and he said, 'You know how much I love you. (and that's when you know something big is coming) I don't know who you're writing for all of a sudden, but it is not you.' And it was the best feedback I could have gotten because I suddenly had all these ideal readers clattering around in my head and like, how many comments am I gonna get. And it was one of the best bits of feedback I've ever gotten. Which is basically, just stop thinking about all those other people and continue to do for you. Which I have to say, before we get into the next thing I want to talk about really, really quickly one of the cool things about you and your writing - and I have to say also about Sarina because all three of us are very much people who like a lot of time by ourselves and a lot of quiet time and don't necessarily need to interact with other people all the time - and yet you and Sarina, your real gifts, at least in my opinion with Sarina, I don't want to speak for her obviously have to do with dialogue. And dialogue about connection. I mean, especially with Will and Grace, that entire show really was about the connection between these people and the action that happens and all of these inciting incidents and all that stuff, that's interesting. But what's really interesting about that show, it was the connection between the people and for Sarina, I mean, she writes romance, that's what this comes down to in the end. So I find it very interesting that two people who are perfectly happy spending a lot of time talking only to their animals or to inanimate objects in the room are so good at that interpersonal connection. I thought about the two of you a lot when I was reading this book.Sarina Bowen 27:30 Well, we don't dislike interpersonal connection. We just like it in small doses.Kari Lizer 27:37 Yes.Jess Lahey 27:40 Before we to start talking about what we've been reading, we need to take a quick break, and we will be right back.KJ Dell'Antonia 27:52 Before Jess, Sarina, and Kari tell you what they've been reading, let me ask you, what have you been writing? How's it coming along? We'd always love to hear about it in the #AmWriting Facebook group. But if you're stalled on your memoir, losing direction on your nonfiction project, or keep writing the beginning of your novel over and over again, maybe you should consider working with a book coach, you could get help with an outline, a draft, or the entire drafting process. And it could be just what you need to finally write the words the end, and actually mean them. Find out more at authoraccelerator.com.Jess Lahey 28:37 Alright, we can start talking about what we've been reading. Kari, do you have a book that you would like to talk about that you've been reading recently?Kari Lizer 28:45 Well, I just finished and it's not brand new, but I just finished Olive Again by Elizabeth Strout and I love those Olive Kitteridge books so much. I mean, I think I relate to that woman. I'm speaking of loners and cranky ladies. But yeah, so I just finished Olive Again and I thoroughly enjoyed it.Jess Lahey 29:08 I talk about her a lot as a person that I couldn't believe I was continuing to read because I hated her so much. In fact, we reread Olive Kittredge before we read Olive Again because I just love those books so much. Sarina, what have you been reading?Sarina Bowen 29:28 Well, most recently I've been reading Aren't You Forgetting Someone by Kari Lizer. But the night before I read a book by a romance author named Mia Sosa with the best title ever, ever, ever. And the title of this book is The Worst Best Man. And of course, there's a wedding cake on the cover with the bride pushing the best man off of the top of it and it's just the cutest thing ever.Jess Lahey 30:02 Yeah, I've needed cute lately. I'm still reading Ibram X. Kendi's How To Be An Antiracist and I find that I need to read that in short bits because it's really hard because I have to think about myself and what I can do to be better. And so on the polar opposite side I've been reading a bunch of sort of rom-com type of stuff and we texted quite a bit about (KJ and I especially) because we were reading at the same time about Emily Henry's Beach Read. Kari, I haven't read any other books like this, but it was really cute. It was a rom-com with two writers the romantic interest is by two writers and in two very different genres who sort of have this animosity/rivalry kind of thing and it was just adorable. And those books I've been doing as audio while I'm out tending my garden so I find myself laughing a lot in my garden which is good fun.Kari Lizer 31:16 Oh, that's a good idea. Yes.Jess Lahey 31:19 By the way, before we say goodbye I actually wanted to tell you that when you're reading Kari's wonderful book, Aren't You Forgetting Someone and you get to the part where it says that Martha Stewart taught her about b******s you need to understand that you've misread the word Maria as Martha. Kari Lizer 31:42 Wait, did I say that?Jess Lahey 31:46 I read it twice and I'm like, that can't be true. Oh I wish it was true. That would be a good story.That's the other fun thing about this book is there's so many juicy, there's obviously your psychic story, your John Edwards story and just a lot of really fun juicy stories in here and also as an animal hoarder, I really identify with your animal stuff. Thank you so much for giving us something to read that has been just been a way to retreat a little bit from the hard stuff because I think we need a balance of those things right now even when it's really important for us to face the hard stuff. It's also really important for us to have an escape to a place of laughter and comfort. And so I just I'm really grateful to you for that.Kari Lizer 32:52 Thank you. I am glad that it felt like that and and hope that hard stuff gets a little less hard shortly is my my wish.Jess Lahey 33:16 Alright. Well thank you everyone for joining us this week. And until next week, keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game. This episode of #AmWriting with Jess and KJ was produced by Andrew Parilla. Our music, aptly titled unemployed Monday was written and performed by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their services because everyone, even creatives should be paid. This is a public episode. Get access to private episodes at amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Leadership is power. Still, leaders shouldn't pretend to be invincible.The paradox is undeniable. Yet Dr. Teri observes that it's high time leaders embrace their vulnerability. She points to research conducted by bestselling author Travis Bradberry that finds that CEOs tend to score extremely poorly in emotional intelligence."He pretty much demonstrates how the system...pushes a certain kind of leader up," explains Dr. Teri. "The farther up you go toward the C-suite, the lower the emotional intelligence."Who tends to score highest in emotional intelligence among your work colleagues? Middle managers, Bradberry finds. These are typically the people who rise into their supervisory roles due to their interpersonal skills and composure under pressure."It's not that we've never had any emotionally intelligent CEOs," Dr. Teri clarifies. "A lot of times those were the ones who did the absolute best."It's just that we live in a culture that, in general terms, doesn't support humility. It doesn't support long-term thinking. Nor sustainability. It doesn't value the happiness and well-being of stakeholders apart from investors, who are thirsty for hockey-stick performance charts, quarterly dividends, and compounding share values. ________________________________________________________________________We are at our most powerful the moment we no longer need to be powerful. - Eric Micha'el Leventhal________________________________________________________________________Surprisingly, Dr. Teri turns the mirror on us collectively. It is we who support these unhealthy values and cultures, whether consciously or tacitly, as employees, stockholders, customers, or partners.But the tide may be turning. A new generation of leaders have begun to rise up the ranks."We're starting to see that maybe stockholder supremacy is not the only variable that we need to look at," she notes. "The New School is a little bit more, 'Okay, what do you have to say? What is your take on this?' Collecting different perspectives. Listening to others instead of thinking you know everything."Indeed, the CEO of a prominent executive search firm recently emailed a newsletter extolling the virtues of humility and vulnerability in the C-suite. Its content and language marked a stark departure from establishment command-and-control credos. We've reached a palpable moment in our collective understanding of what leadership entails. Can our current crop of executives, schooled and groomed in more established, authoritarian ways, realistically make the transition?Listen now on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle Podcasts[Graphic credit: "Sad mature businessman thinking about problems in living room," by Andrea Piacquadio. Source: Pexels.]Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/ParadiseReclaimed?fan_landing=true)

HP has over 55,000 employees and like many other companies around the world they had to pivot to working virtually during COVID-19. HP was able to adapt very quickly and they have a lot of unique programs and tools in place to support their employees. Leading the way is Tracy Keogh, their Chief HR Officer and co-chair of the World Economic Forum’s global task force for Future of Work. Tracy and I talked at length in a recent episode of "The Future of Work With Jacob Morgan."  How to maintain a culture in a virtual setting Many leaders may be trying to figure out how to maintain corporate culture when all of the employees who are used to coming into the office every day now find themselves working from home. Tracy says, “I actually think you can maintain your culture. It's with every action and every program that you do even if you're not in the same office. I don't think I've ever seen our culture more alive or evident than during this pandemic. People are very attentive during these times. So I feel like you need to put culture first, as you're thinking about any activities or decisions that you're making.” A few examples of the things they put into place to help employees working from home include: Homework clubs--When employees moved to work from home Tracy interviewed 4 teachers so employees could listen in and learn from them. Then they broke up into homework clubs led by teachers to assist parents trying to navigate home education Themed days-- Motivational Mondays, Training Tuesdays, Wellness Wednesdays, Thoughtful Thursdays, and Family & Friends Fridays. Weekly call with medical director who answers questions from employees about issues related to health, wellness, & COVID-19. Online cooking classes A global dance party-- They hired a DJ and had a 12 hour dance party starting in one timezone and working its way across the world for all employees. Another crucial component here is leaders who are practicing empathy and emotional intelligence. As Tracy and I talked about, now is an important time for leaders to be human beings first and business leaders second. For example, one of the leaders at HP held a meeting where the employees all had their kids on their lap. The idea here is to take as much of the in-person aspect as you can and move it to the virtual world, but then organizations must build on top of those things with intentionally designed activities and programs. Digitization and re-skilling One of the biggest trends Tracy is currently paying attention to is digitization and re-skilling. Realizing this is important, HP has been focused on evolving the knowledge base of their employees. Tracy believes talent development in general looks very different now than it has in the past. She says, “I think we're moving more towards skills-focused versus role focus people, because people move in and out of different roles, but it's those skills that we need moving forward so that we really want athletes who can apply their different skills to solve problems in different ways, depending on the environment and the business challenge.” HP has also changed the way employees learn. While training is important, they realize that experience and projects play an important role in how employees learn new skills. The company works with employees to map out their career path to figure out what experiences and projects are best suited to where they want to go.  During COVID-19 HP actually took their merchandisers (who work in retail stores showing customers equipment and helping them make product and software decisions) and had them help with their customer service and support teams. HP wanted to find a way to keep these employees paid and on-staff so they focused on the skills that these employees and found other roles where those skills could easily be translated to. HP did the same thing with interns, moving them to a virtual setting (and keeping them paid). Overcoming difficult times There’s no doubt we are facing uncertain times, but it is up to us as individuals to decide how we are going to come out on the other side. Tracy says, “Try to look at the positive of the situation. This is an incredible learning opportunity. This is unprecedented in the world's history, that the whole world has had this kind of issue happen at the same time. And so taking some time and stepping back and thinking about what you've learned, how you've grown, what you've done well, what you wish you were better equipped to do and then figuring out, 'Okay, well, this is what I've learned about myself during this time. Then how do I look moving forward, to make myself smarter, stronger, more resilient, better, and what can I do in the future?' I think it's an amazing learning time. One of the things that I've given as gifts to most of my friends' children is a journal. Just to take time to write, it'll be something historic later on. When you look back that you were there in the pandemic of 2020, and what your thoughts and feelings were. I think taking that inventory and understanding that for people is important, and then looking back and seeing what you've learned and then how it propelled you forward, I think it will be really kind of the best thing to do about this. Take advantage of the opportunity." For leaders trying to navigate these times, Tracy’s advice is to connect with your people and show your leadership. Communication and listening to employees is key. HP has been taking frequent poll surveys to ensure all employees are supported and feel engaged. She says it is critical, especially in these times, to be transparent and open with employees. Even if you have tough messages to share. Empathy is also very important for leaders to show in this time.

We thought the world had already hit rock bottom when we took a week off. We're back to give our take on the current state of affairs related to protests around the country demanding justice for George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and other victims. DISCLAIMER: We endeavored to approach this week's discussion as allies, and do not claim to have all the answers. For rounded coverage from our black brothers and sisters, we recommend Code Switch (https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/) , The Breakfast Club (https://www.youtube.com/user/breakfastclubpowerfm/videos) , Jamele Hill is Unbothered (https://open.spotify.com/show/1SXD1U55jqbK9HHoPvdbsw) , 'Black Trauma And Showing Up At Work (https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/05/9841376/black-trauma-george-floyd-dear-white-people) ', and 'Okay, white people, here's what you can do now (https://www.al.com/opinion/2020/05/johnson-okay-white-people-heres-what-you-can-do-now.html) .' Andrew discovers quarantine birthdays suck, Lady Gaga drops 'Chromatica,' and John Krasinski can go to hell. Pam gives her review of The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, and her take on whether this is a compelling addition to the Hunger Games universe. This week in Corona: U.S. deaths have surpassed 100,000, and we're disgusted by the lack of national mourning. Theme parks won't let that stop them, though - Disney and Universal are set to re-open with strict social distancing and masking guidelines. We react to the horrific murders of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, and give our take on the protests happening across the country. While the media selectively portrays the protests as violent, they seem to be missing the point: there are tanks in our streets, tear gas and rubber bullets flying. How the fuck did anyone think that would have a positive outcome? Resource: Ethel's Club (https://twitter.com/ethelsclub/status/1267578405949779969?s=20) is providing free grieving and healing sessions to black folks around the world, led by licensed black therapists. #Millennial's recommendations to fight white supremacy: Educate yourself: Prison Culture blog essential reading (http://www.usprisonculture.com/blog/essential-pic-reading-list/) , Abolitionist Futures (https://abolitionistfutures.com/pre-conference-events/abolitionist-reading-discussion-group/reading-list/) VOTE for candidates and legislation to hold authorities accountable   Understand racism doesn't "go away" - it mutates. Confront your implicit biases  (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/selectatest.html) Amplify the voices of people of color (and know when to shut up and listen) Support organizations across the country covering the bail and legal fees for arrested protestors: The Bail Project, (https://secure.givelively.org/donate/the-bail-project) Minnesota Freedom Fund (https://minnesotafreedomfund.org/donate) , Brooklyn Community Bail Fund (https://brooklynbailfund.org/donate) , Atlanta Solidarity Fund, (https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/support-justiceforgeorgefloyd-protesters-in-atlanta) The National Bail Fund Network.  (https://www.communityjusticeexchange.org/nbfn-directory) Support black businesses in your area: Official Black Wall Street, (https://officialblackwallstreet.com/directory/) EatOkra (https://www.eatokra.com/) (iOS and Android).  We see you, we stand with you, we're here for you. #BlackLivesMatter This week's show recommendations: AMC's Quiz (Andrew), Netflix's Dead to Me (Laura), and ‘Why I’m No Longer Talking To White People About Race’ by Reni Eddo-Lodge (Pam).  And in this week's installment of After Dark, available on Patreon: JK Rowling showing some TERF-dom... again... How does this impact our love of the Harry Potter series? We confront some of our own implicit biases. After taking this implicit bias test on race (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Study?tid=-1) , we share our results, what they mean, and how we can get better.

Back in December 2019, we set #WriterGoals for 2020.We had no idea. This week, we go back in and revisit—which goals still stand? Which do we have to let go, and which just don’t feel right any more? Was there any point in setting these goals in the first place?In the end, we decide (not very cheerfully, it has to be admitted) that while our goals are necessarily changing, they’re always worth setting and revisiting. We’ll all be settling down to think differently about what we hope for in what’s left of 2020. Are you revising your 2020 goals, or sticking to plan A? Head over to the #AmWriting Facebook group and tell us about it.#AmReadingKJ: Undercover Bromance by Lyssa Kay AdamsThe Body in the Garden by Katharine SchellmanSarina: The Southern Book Club’s Guide to Slaying Vampires by Grady HendrixJess: Audible Original: David Sedaris, Themes and VariationsRat by Stephen King (found in the If It Bleeds novella collection)Hey—now is a great time to check out our sponsor, Author Accelerator, where you can launch a career as a book coach or get paired with the right coach to get your project moving. And if you’d like to support the creation of #AmWriting, we’d appreciate your help! Supporters get weekly Minisodes or Writer Top Fives—and our undying gratitude. Want in? Click the button. KJ (00:01):Hey everyone. KJ. Here we are talking writer goals again this week. It's our midyear review - pandemic style. If you're setting your own goals for the rest of 2020 our sponsor Author Accelerator can help you start a new side gig as a book coach or match you with a coach who can help you work through challenges both on the page and in the calendar for getting your current project done. Find out more at authoraccelerator.com/amwriting. Is It recording?Jess (00:33):Now it's recording. Go ahead.KJ (00:35):This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone like I don't remember what I was supposed to be doing.Jess (00:39):Alright, let's start over.KJ (00:40):Awkward pause. I'm going to rustle some papers. Okay. Now one, two, three. Hey, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia and this is #AmWriting. #AmWriting is the podcast about writing all the things, short things, long things, fiction, nonfiction, essays, pitches, proposals, and as we say every week, this is the podcast about sitting down and getting your work done.Jess (01:11):I'm Jess Lahey. I'm the author of The Gift of Failure and a forthcoming book about preventing substance abuse in kids called The Addiction Inoculation. And you can find my writing at places like the Atlantic and the New York Times and the Washington Post.Sarina (01:25):And I'm Sarina Bowen, the author of some romance novels. My most recent USA Today bestseller was Heartland, which came out in early 2020.KJ (01:35):And I am KJ Dell'Antonia, the author of the novel, The Chicken Sisters, which is coming out in June of this year as well as How To Be a Happier Parent already long out in hardback, but coming out in paperback this summer. And actually that's still happening, which I'm pretty pleased about. And the former editor of the Motherlode blog at the New York Times where I am still a reasonably regular contributor. And that's who we are. And where we are is in our houses, which is actually where we all are. But you know, it bears mentioning on this the 9th of May, 2020. Yeah.Jess (02:15):Which contributes to our topic today. You want to tell everybody what we want to talk about today?KJ (02:22):Oh sure. So we're gonna revisit our goals. Every year around this time we like to take a little mid-year review. We usually do it in June, so I guess we're doing it a touch early, but it has occurred to us that perhaps some of our goals are not going to be the same for the rest of the year. So it seemed like it was a good time to sit down and take a look at what we thought we were going to achieve, what we have achieved and what we're still hoping to achieve. So we've all got them lined up right here in front of us and away we go.Jess (02:56):Who wants to go first?Sarina (02:57):I would love to open.Jess (03:00):Oh, please do.Sarina (03:02):Well, you know, we all are fans of Dan Blank who has been a guest on this podcast and also has his own terrific podcast as well. And Dan Blank's podcast is called The Creative Shift. So he sends out a weekly newsletter that is pure gold and you should subscribe.KJ (03:26):It really is, it's one of the best ones I know of.Sarina (03:29):So, two Fridays ago, he sent one out that began with sharing a New Yorker cartoon that really speaks to what it's like to be a writer right now. And it's a picture of a guy in a rowboat in the middle of a choppy body of water. And you can see there's a shark, and there's a ship sinking behind him, and there's lightning, and it's raining. And the caption says, 'This is it - the time to finish your novel.' And I love it desperately because, you know, remember back in March when we were all like, Hey, what are we going to accomplish while we're stuck at home? Or how about when the three of us (and I'm so happy we did this, I wouldn't change a thing), but we sat and recorded an episode in December right before our office party where we go out together for lunch and we very cheerfully made a list of goals for 2020. Not having any clue that 2020 would shape up to be quite unlike most of the other years that we've sat around planning things together. So I think we should revisit those goals and see what is capable on here. And what have we learned about goal making from our lists.Jess (04:54):I was going to say the first thing I've learned is to be flexible, and to shift, and to adjust to your surroundings. Cause clearly that's the theme of the day. Alright. So what'd you have on there, Ms. Sarina?Sarina (05:10):Well, you know, many of my goals could really stand up in terms of getting the same things done. Especially where I had goals about helping other people, and helping other authors, and helping other women. And those things are all still true and I've been trying to do more of that. But of course I had some goals about like how much I was going to accomplish in terms of writing. And, you know, I'm not teaching anybody to read right now because my kids are old enough to handle this stuff by themselves. But, I didn't count account for my own potential anxiety and the difficulties of making career decisions when the whole world seems to be shifting. So goal I'm having the most trouble with is the one where I was writing an entire book to give to my agent to sell in a new genre for me and that suddenly feels insurmountable even though my work day could look the same because I don't know if that part of publishing is going to be there for me when I'm done. And that's like a mental obstacle to doing that.Jess (06:19):You mean the YA genre?Sarina (06:21):Yeah. Well, you know, unfortunately I have a lot of knowledge of economics and I'm watching businesses fail around me. And I have like a mental block about writing into a publishing world that might not exist when I'm done.Jess (06:42):Yeah, I hear that. Absolutely.KJ (06:47):I am still plowing through, my top number one goal was to finish a book that has now got a different title than it had in my list of goals, but that is fine. Who knows what the title is going to be, but that was my top number one goal was to finish it, and then hopefully get it out, and pitch it to editors. And that is still my top goal despite the obvious changes in the publishing market. I'm not struggling with that as much, but it's probably because I don't have the alternative that you have. Like you could put your time into stuff that you can independently publish and you know you will be there, and readers will be there, and digital book sales will be there. So, it's different, you've got a different choice there.Sarina (07:42):I was just going to say that the fact that most of my publishing is digital is such a blessing and I just don't discount it at all. And also my fear about that other project is not entirely rational, but part of me is in that rowboat with the guy in the thunder storm. And I'm not sure what to do about that. Like how to disembark.Jess (08:09):Well, it was interesting, someone asked a question in the #AmWriting Facebook group this week about this question and said, 'You know, what's everyone doing? Like are we pitching? Are we querying? Are agents picking up new clients? And are people buying books?' And so I went ahead and asked our agent and I said, 'I don't have to quote you or anything.' And she said, 'Hell yes, people are buying.' She said, she's had a couple of auctions. She said, you can totally quote me that people are buying, people are looking, that things are still chugging along in book sale world. I think a lot of people are scared about releasing right now, which is a really scary, new world sort of situation. But people are still buying books. People are still picking up new writers. So there was that sort of gut check of, Oh, there is some normalcy happening out there and our agent is not the kind of person to be you know, to be blindly optimistic. She's the kind of person to give it to you like it is.KJ (09:18):Yeah. Or even worse than it is. My fiction agent says the same thing and my editor says she's acquiring. So people are acquiring of course, whether they're like whistling Dixie and a thunderstorm is another question. But, they're trying, everybody wants to keep going. And I would like to have a book to sell them. I would very much like to have a book to sell them. What I am finding is that the speed at which I can complete this is totally different than it used to be. Even when I'm sitting down to work, I can't work as fast. Both because I think my focus is off and because my house is full of people. People everywhere, everywhere I look, there's another person and they eat. They just won't stop eating.Jess (10:25):Yeah. I'm the place of, Oh my gosh, dinner really does happen every single day. Like everyone's on their own for breakfast and lunch. But that dinner thing, that's our sort of reconnect with each other. We're still doing dinner. Dinner is important to us. And because I have big eaters, they tend to start asking at like 4:45. I'll get these texts. So what's the thought for dinner? So dinner happens every day, shockingly. And that's actually been, if anything, a positive for our family. So having something, you know, to eat evening and sit down and even if it's just like last night I threw together a soup. It's been a good thing, but it is shocking to me how much they can eat. But on the other hand, like our grocery bills are freaking me out. But on the other hand we are not eating out at all. So we don't even do takeout. But KJ, did you finish? Can I start talking about mine? Because mine go in a weird direction.KJ (11:26):Well I didn't. I mean, the goal of finishing that book is the only one that stays the same. I have essay goals on here and I am just not feeling the essays right now cause it feels like the only essays I can write would be about this. And I don't want to write about this. I really don't. I know a lot of people do, but I really, really, really, really, really don't. So you know, I had humor on here. I wanted to do some of that. Does it have to be covid humor? I don't know. So there's that. My promotion goals around The Chicken Sisters, the ones that are on here are still the same because... Podcast goals. Yeah. Well the shift is in how, but I didn't really write how into my goals.Jess (12:20):No, I mean the real fact for you is that some of the things that you were counting on, some of them in there are not happening.KJ (12:28):So, no, but it's not like everybody else is out there hawking their books face to face and I'm not, so I am not as bothered by that as as I might be. You know, the advantage to it (as an introvert who's not super into travel) I really wanted to do these things, but not doing them is okay too. In some ways.Jess (12:57):Can I just offer another silver lining to this though, is that it's unbelievable to me how generous other writers are being with each other right now. I know you and I have both bought a bunch of books that we may or may not ever read just because we're supporting our fellow authors out there. And I think it's a fantastic thing. And I mentioned in another podcast that I'm a new devotee of this long form podcast and on that they're talking to a lot of writers right now who are trying to release books during this and they're talking about the generosity of other authors. So that's been really lovely to see. So hopefully some of that will kick in for you too, KJ.KJ (13:37):I think it will. I feel pretty good and I'm having a really good time. One thing I'm having a good time with is that when this all started someone mentioned to me that the warehouse might not be able to send out advanced copies anymore. And I went, 'Oh, so wait, they're just sitting there? So would they just put them in a box and send them to me?' So they did. I basically have all the remaining advanced reader copies. And so I'm sending the Good Reads giveaway winner copies and I'm sending all the bookstagrammers and I ultimately spent a lot of time sort of going, which would be the very best bookstagrammers. And last week I was just like, you know, I'm just going to send these to the bookstagrammers that I follow and that follow me and that are sort of in my universe and that'll be happy and excited to get it. And I've been doing that and it feels really fun. So that's entertaining.Jess (14:40):That's a very cool thing. Plus, you know, there's the whole decorating of them. But Sarina, you had something you wanted to mention to KJ.Sarina (14:46):I did because when she was talking about essays, it made me realize that how much of the news I'm reading is all focused on the same thing. So that means that relevancy is suddenly like a little bit of a wrench in our goals because you could still write essays, you still have the time, and you still have the voice, but the relevancy of the things that you were probably going to work on is just gone. And I'm struggling with some relevancy, too. It takes a whole lot of optimism to write romance and you know, I'm a little bit stuck on that. And even just literally, I looked at the epilogue of one of my hockey books and I had my team winning the cup in June of 2020 and guess what? There isn't even going to be a cup in June of 2020 and it never occurred to me. Like I try not to paint myself into a corner. I do it all the time anyway, but it never in my wildest dreams occurred to me that there would not be a champion.Jess (15:53):It takes an extra layer of imagination, too. I mean, you're already constructing new worlds for your books and now suddenly you're having to like construct a whole world for your own world so that you can construct those. I mean, you have to have a certain level of optimism. You have to have a certain level of ability to envision a world in which your characters are not going through this, not touching each other thing. And I mean, look at that. You are trying to write about people who are so much touching each other in a world where no one's allowed to touch each other. I mean, it's a really weird thing.Sarina (16:25):It is. And I saw a really funny tweet from a narrator who was doing a book and he, without naming the book said, 'You know, this book really confused me. I was telling my friend because it not a lot happens. There's not a lot of conflict. They go to Ikea and buy some furniture and I was just waiting for the conflict.' And the friend said to this narrator, 'Dude, what you just described is like science fiction at this point.'Jess (16:56):That's true. That's absolutely true. Yeah. Alright, well I wanted to talk about the fact that so I actually did finish the edits on my manuscript. That was my number one goal, finish the edits on the manuscript and you know, it wasn't anything like Gift of Failure but there was still some heavy lifting to do. And I got them done. I'm looking at the date actually I got them done well before the date that I was hoping to get them done by. And the reason I wanted to get them done by that date was that I wanted to have a new proposal or at least the shortened version to show my agent cause she has no idea still what I'm thinking about. And I wanted to have that to her by April 15th and of course that was smack in the middle of just trying to wrap my head around all of this stuff. And you know, for me also personally, it's been anxiety provoking. Like I can sit here in my house, in the woods. I was telling my husband, this is a really weird paradoxical thing. I don't go out very often, obviously, but when I do go out, I get pretty depressed because here in my home I can ignore it and I can kind of forget about it for short periods of time. But going out in the world has been just scary and weird and anyway, so the worst of this stuff has come right at a time when I was hoping to get a new proposal done. And so what I've decided to do is give myself a break and I'm doing a lot of my research through audio. And while I'm listening, I keep a notebook near me, but I am outside. Because for the first time since I started a speaking career that runs on an academic schedule, I've never been home in time to get really good gardens ready for the growing season. And I definitely never got gardens in my new house. And I've always felt a little adrift without my gardens. So I've been giving myself a big fat break. And I leave the house as soon as I'm done with my stuff in the morning and I go outside and I don't come in until I have to get that infernal daily dinner thing going again. I walk in at the end of the day and I look at my husband and I say, 'I am just so happy outside.' And the other thing was because of all this anxiety, I wasn't sleeping very well and just exhausting myself during the day outside, and just being sore, and tired, and drained has been much better for my sleep. So I'm giving myself a big fat break right now, in terms of the writing part. Definitely still researching, loving listening to all the audio, but giving myself a big fat break, thinking of it as a little vacation has been really important to me. And I have gardens now. I have the bare bones gardens down and it makes me so happy and I finally feel like this house is mine again. You know, it finally is a place where I live. And and that's been fantastic. So yeah. And then the rest of my goals were things like, so finish the edits, got those done on time, finish the new proposal, totally didn't happen on time. But that was my own internal schedule and that's okay. And then back with you on the essay thing, cause I had complete five essays for collection by the end of the year. I've definitely thought about them. And for me that's a big thing cause I do a lot of the thinking, the writing internally first, and then I just of get it down. But yeah, I'm not writing about covid and these essays are about things that are so unrelated to that. And so it's just been close to impossible to get that essay writing done. But I'm feeling better now and I feel like that's going to come back online really soon. Our friend Mary Laura Philpott has sold a new essay collection and I happen to know that she's trying to get down to work on that. And so, I'm sort of mentally trying to partner with Mary Laura and be thinking about those essays. Spanish was a big one and I haven't done that. I just absolutely 100% failed at that. We had some goals around Spanish that were going to culminate with some big Spanish speaking for a trip that got canceled. Well and now my thoughts have shifted also to things like I'm starting to freak out about some of the spring speaking events. You know, a big source of my anxiety around an inability to stay focused for a few minutes at a time has to do with money stuff because my non-writing income went poof. And that's the majority of my income. So that's been challenging. And my husband works for a hospital that just announced that all of the top level people will all take pay cuts. And so my husband's taking a pay cut in the midst of this as well. And then if anyone's been following my social media, they know we just spent the equivalent of a small used car on our dog who almost died. So that's a stressful thing, too. And yet we're so fortunate, I'm not scared about paying our rent, but I am just anxious. If I had to rewrite my goals now, it would be do more of what's making me feel really good right now. And that's making me feel really good right now.KJ (22:42):Well that's a good question. Are we going to rewrite our goals? I think it might be worth sitting down and doing. Because one of the other reason that some of this stuff happened - I've got some goals here around the podcast, and the email list, and marketing with other podcasts. There's no reason I can't do those things other than that I've got about three hours of brain power in me every day and I use it up on writing the book and then I just have so much less steam than I used to have. I don't know. I guess it's the anxiety, I guess it's that. But you know, I used to be able to sort of write in the morning and then go back to do all the other stuff in the afternoon. And it's also all the household stuff. It's all this stuff, all this stuff. And some of these are just like we were saying, I just don't necessarily want to focus on that as much anymore.Jess (23:37):Okay, well then put a line through it. I'm putting a line through the Spanish one. I'm letting myself off the hook for that. You know what, I was just looking at number five, which was one email a month for my email list. And my email list has gone up a lot this year because of some high visibility podcasting I've done. But I'm really glad we're doing this today because that is a good kick in the pants for me. But you know what I've done that's been also really wonderful. I think I'm just missing teaching so much that I've been doing this thing on Twitter where I teach about rhetorical devices and I do a long thread and you could see the smile on my face while I'm doing them. It makes me so happy. I'm like pulling all these books off the shelves and it's teaching and I'm having so much fun. So I'm going to keep doing that. And you know, doing more of that I think would be really super fun for me. So I may even stick that in instead.KJ (24:37):That is so funny because I said one of the things we could talk about today is changing our approach to social media. And you said, 'Oh, I didn't change anything.' I was like, 'Yes, you did.' That's what I was thinking of. You know, we're filling in some gaps of things that we used to do in real life with social media. And I feel like that is one for you. And if you could or wanted a new teaching job, you certainly couldn't get it now. So you have found that. I've been connecting a lot more on Instagram. I've been going back into Twitter, which I had been out of for literally years. Trying to find ways to use Facebook that don't involve getting sucked in. And actually I'm on Instagram way too much. I need to stop. But also feeling like it really is providing a connection and a place to talk about books and things that are important to me. Like these are the conversations I might normally be having, like at a hockey game or in line at the grocery store or at the bookstore over coffee or whatever. And now they're taking place online in different ways. So that was what I was thinking of, but I was also thinking about you. How about you, Sarina, have you changed your social media at all?Sarina (25:54):Well yeah, but it's not all sunny around here. I've had to take some breaks, some like multi-day breaks from social media just because it feeds my anxiety when I can see people sort of emoting about the same things that I'm worried about. I have to walk away because sometimes it just amplifies all the things I'm worried about. So I think taking some steps back has really helped me. And plus I don't want to amplify my own...I feel very brittle right now and I don't really want to be brittle on social media, so I've just had to sort of back away.Jess (26:37):It's funny you say that because now thinking back, just about every time you text that you're freaking out about something, it's because you saw something on social media that just triggered you. So I think that's fantastic.Sarina (26:47):I mean, I'm more caught up on news right now than I've ever been in my entire life, but it's not such a great thing because the reason I can't walk away from Washington Post and the New York Times is that I'm looking for someone to tell me what's going to happen. And of course they can't really do that, but that's why I keep going back. So I've had to kind of step away from that, too. Not because news is bad, but because it can't serve what I'm really searching for.Jess (27:22):Didn't you say that you were on Google for something and you realize that there was a commonly searched for question on Google, which was what's going to happen? I don't think Google can even do that.Sarina (27:42):I love to see what other people are searching on Google. And I will stop and screenshot them if they're particularly wonderful.Jess (27:52):Oh, can I tell you something really cool? At Google headquarters in California I got to speak there after Gift of Failure came out and they took me through and I got a really cool tour and one of the things they have as a staircase and on the riser for each step of the staircase are the most Googled things so you can watch in real time on the staircase as all the things that people are Googling changes. And it was really cool while I was there looking at other stuff. They also have this room you can stand in and it screens all around you like floor to ceiling screens all around you and you can enter any search term you want. It could be you, for example. So I entered Jessica Lahey to see sort of what the world sees when they look at me across all platforms. And it allows you to see like does your website match up? You know, do you have a brand that has unifying themes, blah blah blah. And it was just really interesting to see how does my website match up with what's going on on Twitter and what's going on on all these different platforms. It was really kind of cool. That was kind of fun. But I'm sorry I totally took things off the rails because you were talking about what's going to happen and no one being able to tell you that.Sarina (29:07):Yep. And they still can't so it doesn't really matter.Jess (29:09):Well what has been interesting is from, and I know you're looking a lot at a lot of this through an economic lens, cause that's who you are. But my son is studying economics and can you imagine - this is when my kid is getting his introduction to the world of economics, like this is such a weird and bizarre time and he has a summer job that is (and I don't think I'm allowed to say where it is yet because I don't think anything's been signed) but it's at the epicenter of what's going on economically. And so we've been talking about it a lot, but from a very academic perspective, which has been interesting. I guess it allows me to sort of set it over there and have a bit of a reserve around it. But I mean it's not like it's good news. It's just academic instead of about like our personal economic situation. Can I interject one tiny thing? Can you all look at your word? I have them all in front of me right now. How are you feeling about your words?Sarina (30:18):I still like my word.KJ (30:18):I hate my words.Jess (30:23):Okay. Well my word was practice and I'm actually still feeling good about that because it's a good reminder to me that it's not about having these huge breakthroughs. It's about the daily practice of either thinking about structuring, blah, blah, blah. So I'm still happy with that. Sarina, your word was, do you remember?Sarina (30:39):Abundance.Jess (30:40):How are you feeling about that?Sarina (30:41):Well, honestly, I should still tape it up into every room I walk through because the truth is it's pretty abundant around here. Ebooks are still performing. My life is fine. It's just a little more anxious than it used to be.KJ (30:59):And my word was magic and I'm not feeling very magical right now. Although honestly, I am up and down every day. I don't want to be Pollyanna about this. Nobody is happy about what is happening, but I suppose it is a little magical that my family has not killed each other in the 67 days that we have been largely cooped up together. That is kind of magical. And I was thinking that I might put some magic in a next book draft, after this one. I don't know, maybe that will happen. Yeah, magic did not turn out to be a super helpful for this time.Jess (32:11):Speaking of magical thinking and inhabiting fantasy lands that don't exist. Should we talk a little bit about what we've been reading? Alright. Sarina you want to lead off again since you went first last time?Sarina (32:24):Well, I'm reading something that KJ gave me. The Southern Book Club's Guide to Slaying Vampires by Grady Hendrix. This was a book that spotted before KJ bought it and I thought, I'm just happy that book exists. The writing is terrific. His writing game is super strong from the first paragraph of the prologue and I am intrigued.Jess (32:58):Oh, good. Cool. What about you KJ?KJ (33:01):Well, I'm reading a book, Sarina gave me. I am reading Undercover Bromance by Alyssa Kay Adams. We need to book club on this one, Sarina. We need to have a discussion, but like her previous book in this series, The Bromance Book Club. It is fun, satisfying, fast paced, and distracting. And that's about everything I ask of a book right now. And I also am reading The Body in the Garden by Catherine Schellman. This is a historical mystery and I have not read very much in the mystery genre for many, many years. And it's kind of fun to see that in a same way that historical romances have taken a real turn for having a modern way of thinking within the historical romance as opposed to trying to keep people thinking as they might have in the time. This mystery also sort of falls into that category. It has a modern attitude within a historical time and space and that makes it fun. And that's by Catherine Schellman. So again, fun, distracting, light. Just what we need.Jess (34:16):Yeah, I I have a book I want to talk about today cause there's something really interesting in it and it's not something that you guys normally read is two things. Number one for the audio listeners out there David Sedaris released an Audible original. It's not a huge deal. Don't get too excited. It's only 30 minutes long. It's called Themes and Variations, but it's essentially him just riffing about the people he talks to on book tour and the things they talk about. I think it was like $1.89 or something like that. But I got so excited when I saw it and I've already listened to it three times just because I needed a little David Sedaris back in my life. But the thing I went and listened to is I saw that there was a new Stephen King coming out and a former guest on our podcast, Ruth Franklin, wrote the review of Stephen King's new book in the New York Times and it's a wonderful review. She's such a great writer. I was like, 'Okay, well if she has a nice things to say, I'll get it.' And it's a collection of novellas and short stories and I'm not going to talk about all of them. I want to talk about just one and there's one called The Rat and I'm not going to do any spoilers here, but if you are a writer who has ever felt blocked in your writing, this story is a truly delightful, dark, dastardly view into the writer's head when they're trying to wrestle with their demons and why they can't get the words on the page.Speaker 3 (36:26):And I was working out in the woods while I was listening to it and there was a giant smile on my face. I was cackling. I'm like, this is so mean. And it's similar to when he channels the writer in Misery, when anytime he's ever talked about sort of what it's like for him to write and to go through that trap door into his basement. And all of that good stuff is in there. All of that stuff from On Writing that we love so much about his reading, about his process that's all in there, channeled through this writer in this story called The Rat. And it's delightful. It really truly is. It would be worth getting the book if you can afford to do it. It would be worth getting the book just to listen to this story really quick. I mean, I've also been comfort listening and I was scrolling through my Audible books that I've been listening to and they've all been books about sort of overcoming hardship. I realized I relistened to Jenny Finney Boylan's She's Not There. And I relistened to Diana Niad's Find a Way, which is about swimming from Florida to Cuba.KJ (37:40):I think you're the only person who's still listening. Audio has just dropped cause nobody's in their cars, nobody is commuting.Jess (39:02):I'm glad we did this cause I actually feel refocused in a couple of different ways and I'm feel good about drawing a line through one of my goals and just saying nope. By the way, go check out the #AmWriting Facebook group if you want some interesting reading about how other writers are handling this time, because that's what really most of the conversation is about right now. Like, how do you handle stuff? Are people still pitching here? What do you think about this? It's a really reassuring and supportive place to be, but until next time, everyone keep your button, the chair and your head in the game. This episode of #AmWriting with Jess and KJ was produced by Andrew Parilla. Our music, aptly titled unemployed Monday was written and performed by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their services because everyone, even creatives should be paid. This is a public episode. Get access to private episodes at amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Mazi and I chat about how anxiety manifests itself, practices to manage anxiety, identifying unproductive thought patterns, and how to overcome them. 5:34You're here today to talk about some aspects of mental health. Something that we're all hearing or reading on a daily basis, during this quarantine and unknowns, is the rise in anxiety in people. Talk to us a little bit about anxiety and what you have seen as a counselor during these times, and how to identify that in ourselves. "One of the things that I've been communicating to clients and talking with other people about is that if you are feeling anxious right now, that's normal. If your anxiety is elevated right now, that's normal. The reason for that is because we are living in very stressful anxiety inducing times, because what we're living in is filled with uncertainty." "The thing that we have to understand is the way our brain works. Our brains main job is to keep us alive. The way our brain does that is by constantly assessing if we're in danger or if we're okay. One of the things that our brain perceives as dangerous to our being, to our security is uncertainty. So whenever our brain perceives that we are being faced with uncertainty, with change, with something that is outside of our control, our brain registers that as a threat to our being. Our brain immediately sends us into fight, flight or freeze mode, also known as our anxiety response." Anxiety may manifest as: anxiousness, worry, panic frustration, irritation, more easily annoyed heart racing or pounding changes in appetite and digestion withdrawing, under functioning over functioning  sadness, depression and others 13:25 Once we identify how anxiety manifests itself, what are some practices, some tools we can put into place in our daily lives to help us to deal with it in a healthy way? Structure: "As human beings, we crave comfort and certainty and structure. What recent events have done is they've taken all that and thrown them up in the air. If you can try to create some sort of structure and routine in your day, that would be beneficial, because it sends a message to your mind of, 'Okay, we're not in control of a lot of things, but we're in control of when we eat lunch. And I know I'm going to lunch at 12 o'clock and I can count on that.' " Showering (self-care): "It's a way of sending a message to our mind that the wheels may have fallen off the car, but I'm still worth taking care of in the most basic of ways." Emotional Awareness: "Now's not the time to stuff our feelings. We're feeling too much. There's too much to emotionally respond to and so now is not the time to stuff it and not bring it up or think I'm just not going to deal with it. I'm going to sweep it under the rug. It's really important for us to process our fears, to process our worries, to be emotionally honest with those we are close to in our lives right now." Remind ourselves of truth: "It's natural for us to feel critical of others. It's natural for some of us to feel critical of ourselves. Why can't I get this routine down? Why can't I figure out this homeschooling. And so just being very aware of when our thinking is turning negative and reminding ourselves of truth? I'm doing the best that I can. This is so unknown. I've literally never lived through this before. So I'm not going to get it right." Get outside:  "Every day we need to get outside and if you don't feel like you want to go outside, then that's the day you really need to go outside." Consistent face to face connection with people outside of our home: "It is so important that every day we are talking and if we can video see someone, because we are not designed to be physically isolated. And even if you are isolated with your family that still isolation and that in of itself is kind of a different stress because you're with us all the time."  Show NOTES continued  --------------------------------------------------- Follow Mazi Robinson on IG and visit Cultivate Atlanta for Free Resources Follow Grace Enough Podcast on IG and FB ---------------------------------------------------------

Are you worried about showing up on Instagram? Do you think that by using Instagram for sales you may come off as being pushy? In today’s episode, Bonnie is talking with Rachel Everett.  Rachel is a registered dietitian nutritionist in Dallas, Texas, helping women take back their life from bloat and digestive problems caused by IBS and SIBO. Rachel struggled with her own digestive issues growing up, and dedicated her career to finding answers. "My niche kind of evolved from seeing, 'Okay, where is my ideal client at, standing in their shoes?'" - Rachel Everett In today’s episode… What her nutrition philosophy is? Who she currently works with? What her niche was when she first started out? How her niche has evolved since working with Libby? How she has built the know, like and trust factor? How she got over her fear and built her confidence to show her face? What her process is for creating her offer? What tips she has for successfully enrolling clients? Guest Resources: Connect with Rachel on Instagram   Free Resources from Libby Are you ready to start to start selling on Instagram? Check out my 3 Steps to Selling on Instagram today!

Good morning everyone! Welcome back to Motivate Me podcast! What do you say when somebody asks, “how are you”? We need to flip out upside down. If you’re not an 'Okay' type of person, never ever say "I'm okay" Just try it today when somebody asks how you are, answer them with "I'm awesome", "I'm great", "I'm fantastic". When you are positive, when you are awesome, you can be that rising tide. And you will feel better after you said that. Cheers. Dean

"The best thing about owning a business is it allows you to say, 'Okay, who do I want to be?'"

Our guest today, Dan Blank, sure seems like a man who loves his work. On his own podcast, the Creative Shift, he’s a warm and engaged interviewer. In his emails, he’s genuine and engaged. Is he selling his book and his services as an advisor to authors developing their platform and launching their work into the world? Sure, but it never feels like he’s selling. It feels like he’s sharing.Wouldn’t we all like to feel like that, and have our readers see us that way? We were hoping Dan would share his magic sauce and we’d all go skipping off towards easy street down a rainbow path, but it turns out there’s some work involved here. So instead, we talked about process, from the way you manage your personal trolls to the way you manage your emails, and then we talked—buzzword alert—authenticity, and finding the things you genuinely want to share with the people who are a match for your work. (You can download Dan’s free guide, 5 Ways to Immediately Connect with Readers, here.)Episode links and a transcript follow, and that’s it for shownotes, because man has it been a couple of weeks. It’s been February for at least a year, right? And I thought January felt long. A few things you can do to help us out or get more #AmWriting:Review us in your podcast app.Join the #AmWriting Facebook GroupSupport us with a little cash, and get periodic #SupporterMini episodes (next week: #OutlineShortcut) and weekly #WritersTopFives every Monday that isn’t an unexpected school holiday that kicks my ass. FanFaves include Top Five Details to Flag in Your Publishing Contract and Top Five Ways to Win at Newsletter Subject Lines. As always, this episode (and every episode) will appear for all subscribers in your usual podcast listening places, totally free as the #AmWriting Podcast has always been. This shownotes email is free, too, so please—forward it to a friend, and if you haven’t already, join our email list and be on top of it with the shownotes and a transcript every time there’s a new episode. LINKS FROM THE PODCAST#AmReading (Watching, Listening)KJ: Such a Fun Age, Kiley ReidHow Could She: A Novel, Lauren MechlingRed, White, & Royal Blue: A Novel, Casey McQuistonSarina: The Starless Sea: A Novel, Erin MorgensternDan: Churchill: Walking with Destiny by Andrew RobertsBonus: Clementine, The Life of Mrs. Winston ChurchillOur guest for this episode is Dan Blank, and you can find more about him at We Grow Media.This episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwriting for details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s Inside-Outline template.Find more about Jess here, Sarina here and about KJ here.If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship.Transcript (We use an AI service for transcription, and while we do clean it up a bit, some errors are the price of admission here. We hope it’s still helpful.)KJ (00:00):Hey listeners, KJ here, if you're in with us every week, you're what I like to call people of the book. And some of us book people discover somewhere along the way that not only are we writers, we're people with a gift for encouraging other writers. Maybe that comes out in small ways for you, but for some of you, it's a calling and an opportunity to build a career doing work you love. Our sponsor, Author Accelerator provides book coaching to authors (like me) but also needs and trains book coaches. And if that's got your ears perked up, head to authoraccelerator.com and click on become a book coach. Is it recording?Jess (00:41):Now it's recording.KJ (00:43):Yay.Jess (00:43):Go ahead.KJ (00:44):This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone like I don't remember what I was supposed to be doing.Jess (00:48):Alright, let's start over.KJ (00:48):Awkward pause. I'm going to rustle some papers. Now, one, two, three. I'm KJ Dell'Antonia and this is #AmWriting. #AmWriting is our podcast about writing all the things - fiction, nonfiction, essays, book proposals, all the things that I list every week because this is the podcast about sitting down and getting your writing work, whatever that is, done.Sarina (01:20):And I'm Sarina Bowen. I'm the author of 30-odd romance novels and my new one is called Heartland. You can find more about me at sarinabowen.com.KJ (01:31):I'm excited for Heartland. I was just crawling all over your website today for no apparent reason. Anyway, I am KJ Dell'Antonia. I am the author of The Chicken Sisters, a novel coming out in June of 2020, as well as How To Be a Happier Parent, which is out in hardback now and in paperback this summer. And I am excited to say that we have a guest today. So let me just introduce him. Our guest is Dan Blank. He's so many things that I don't know what to put first, so don't judge me by how I rank these. But he is the host of The Creative Shift podcast, the author of Be the Gateway: A Practical Guide to Sharing Your Creative Work and Engaging an Audience, the creator and wunderkind behind the We Grow Media Organization, and a man with a true passion for what he likes to call a human centered approach to reaching your audience. And I would have to say that Dan has a human centered approach to everything. So, welcome Dan.Dan (02:32):Thank you for the lovely introduction. I appreciate that.KJ (02:36):You're welcome. A couple of weeks to go. We recorded an episode on what we do all day and you don't have to convince either of us that the most important thing that we do is create. But we both struggle to put that first sometimes because of all the other stuff that feels pressing. And all that other stuff is mostly about marketing, and promoting ourselves and our work, and getting it out in the world and communicating with our editors or agents or audio book recorders or cover designers - just so much stuff. So we are hoping to have kind of a two-part conversation with you: if getting the work out in the world is the second most important thing, how do we do that better and smarter instead of just chasing shiny new opportunities and how can we get it done? And full disclosure here, before I stop talking, I think that you love connecting your work with people or at least it feels that way to me. And Sarina and I both would like to feel that way. So I have dubbed this #HowToLovePromotingYourWork. And that's not a challenge or anything. I did not ask you a question. How can we start? What should be my first question?Dan (03:59):To me, it always starts with clarity. And I totally agree with you, that for a writer it begins with their craft. It begins with what they create, why they create it, and of course their ability to do so. And then from that, it's about the idea of connecting it with people. I find that a lot of people absolutely do what you say, they struggle to create because of all the other important things in life. And sometimes it is distracting. Like going on a co-host website for no reason and just spending time there, which I do all the time. But a lot of times it's critically important things like kids, and job, and to feeding your family, and that sort of thing. So when I think of the idea of productivity and getting writing done, a lot of what I think about is that battle for clarity. Of knowing what is the most important thing, and knowing it in your bones, and having made decisions around it. And I think if you don't have that first, then it's very difficult to start weighing things in your day. Of like, well I should volunteer for that, I should do this, maybe let me just check that out, and someone told me about that book let me check that out, or let me get back to email. So the place I like to start is talking about clarity, but I'm not sure if that's starting too far back for you.Sarina (05:23):I would love to jump in and tell you that you're already saying some things to me that really resonate. Because my relationship to productivity and to my clarity of purpose has changed so much over the last five years and not in a healthy way. And I'm sort of struggling to go back to where I was. Well, I started writing romance novels out of frustration about five years ago, because the things that I had been working on were not working, not finding a market. And so I wrote the first couple just out of joy and just for fun. And I accidentally became a romance novelist because the moment that my first romance came out, then I found success. So everything started to work for me. But the problem is now that my relationship to that work has changed so much because of reader expectations. And now my inbox is full of people who want things from me. Whereas, when I first started writing these stories, they were just for me. I mean, I had the hope that somebody would read them, but now I literally get messages every day from people who are demanding that I do a particular thing next. And it's really messed me up a little bit. You know, when I sit down in front of my computer in the morning now, I have all those voices in my head and they want certain things to happen in my fictional worlds and they want certain books next. But I'm on deadline on this other one. And you know, cry me a river, right? Because I have an engaged audience, but sometimes it's too loud.Dan (07:19):Yeah. I mean, KJ knows this about me. I work in a small studio here in New Jersey and on one of the walls is nothing but photos of artists, and writers, and musicians who inspire me. And I pick photos of them when they are either very young, before they've had success, or when they're sort of in that moment of risk. And I stare at them all day. And you talking about that thing that a lot of people have, which is I don't want to write to an audience, but I want to feel that my life is filled with an audience. And how to navigate that is a tricky thing. And as I look at that wall right now, I think of how all of these other creators had to deal with that, too. You come out with a successful album, or painting, or show, or performance, or book and you're immediately thrilled at the success and then saddled with that success. And you're also talking about not just in your head, you're talking about, it's like infiltrating your day through email, and probably through private messages, and things like that.Sarina (08:20):Yeah.Dan (08:24):Now we will get to the crying. I mean the first thing I think about that, is the ability to compartmentalize it. And sometimes that is a system you create. So you have a virtual assistant who is actually in your inbox and moves things to different places so that you're not always confronting them at a bad moment. That's one way to do it. Another way to do it is to sort of reframe feedback from readers almost in a community marketing role. So you're expecting this. And the way I like to think about that is to have a process. Because if we think about anyone, JK Rowling, anyone who has a big fan base, and all day long fans come up and tell them about their life there's a real emotional baggage to that. Let alone if they're saying, why don't you do this, why don't you do that? If it's reframed as this is a marketing role, this is a reader connection role, this is a me being there for people role. In a background way that might be a way to compartmentalize it in your mind, but then the service that you're doing of engaging with them, it's a whole different thing. You have a process by which to process that. And again, I think KJ knows this from from my work, but I have this little thing I call creativity cave trolls and it's basically anything that distracts you, takes you off of your clarity. And I imagine that this is one of those cave trolls for you. And the whole concept behind it is not that you want to kill the troll, the troll will always be there. It's sort of this dumb, lumbering thing that will always be a part of your life. And the way that you manage that is that you build a system to manage it. You're always going to get these emails so let's plan for those emails and let's find a way to process them. Again, it could be hiring someone, it could be flagging them in your inbox, and you deal with them only on Mondays from 4:00 to 8:00 PM. Or you have a script that you use, something where if you know they're going to come and take you off track, we find a way to process them. And then hopefully that would give you more mind space to create and then fewer things to take you way off the rails.KJ (10:40):And I think that we all struggle with that inbox full of demand. Whether it's reader demand, like Sarina gets, or editor demand, or school volunteer demand, or just all the things. My inbox right now is full of direct messages from social media and many of them there were, 'Yeah, I sure I would love to be on your podcast, actually.' But they all require sort of a processing time that is very real and that's so annoying. Why can I not just process them in the amount of time that it takes to read them? That's a little crazy, but it's just like, why does it take me 40 minutes to crank through three emails?Dan (11:35):Can I really dig into email? Is that okay? Cause I'm so passionate about this. Okay, so I know this is another thing KJ and I've talked about in the past, which is my philosophy that your inbox is not a to do list. And the problem I think a lot of people have with email is they ask for it to do too many things. And it's one channel. So a number of ways to even think about what you just said. And that's to: one, turn off the notifications. If they're going to go to Instagram, or going to go to Twitter, let them go to Instagram and Twitter. Don't also have them pop into email because then that's a bottleneck for everything. Another way to kind of lighten the load is to think about having different inboxes for different purposes. So one thing that I do is I have almost every newsletter that I get (and I get a ton of newsletters cause I kind of study them) I have an email inbox (a Gmail account) just for newsletters. So the email that I use every day gets almost no newsletters. And I unsubscribe from everything. You know, if I buy something from Guitar Center and they accidentally put me on their newsletter list, I actively unsubscribe from things, I actively route things to different inboxes. And the idea is the fewer things I have to even look at and sort through, the more clarity I have to manage the things that are there. So that's sort of the first thing I would say with email and the second thing is, again to sort of have a process to process the inbox. So I'm one of those really, really, really annoying people who's basically always at inbox zero. And that's because I'm always offloading things from email. So the super quick version of what I do is I don't consider my inbox my inbox. I use Apple mail and they have like a flag folder and Gmail has a star folder. So right then and there when I open up email and they all pop in in the morning, I don't really read them, I flag emails that I have to look at. So everything I don't flag just goes into the endless archive. I don't worry about deleting them, I don't move them into folders and pretend that I'm like a librarian of my inbox cause that takes a lot of time and decision making power. Then I just go to my flagged folder and there are just the 16 emails I flagged let's say that day. And from what I do then is I try to process what I can quickly. Like if I can just do a one word or a one line reply back, I do that. And for anything more, if it's client saying, 'Oh, can we do it out here and I'm gonna add this to our agenda', I move it out of email, I put it in the folder I have for that client. I move it into another working process, I don't keep it in the inbox. And for things I can't process right away either I leave it in there until later in the day or I email that person and say, 'Thanks, I'm going to get back to you within 48 hours on this.' So I always take action on it and where I can't take action, I at least set an expectation that I see you and you will hear back from me at a certain time. And that sort of has worked wonders for my inbox. It's been a very long time since I've ever worried about email because that system works for me. So I typically end the day with a totally empty flags folder.Sarina (15:05):Huh. I love how analytical that is because it seems like maybe I could manage that as I'm analytical about most everything, but I also hear you sort of saying that I should just get over my anger at some of the things that people email me.Dan (15:24):Yeah, I mean I think that there's such a power, there's such an energy that it takes and I like the idea of how do we flip that? How do we have a script that we can send to these people? How do we have a thing in your website that says how you deal with it?Sarina (15:39):Oh, I have the thing, it's just that people don't pay attention. It says in beautiful pink letters right above my contact form. Like, 'Due to the volume of questions Sarina cannot respond to questions about publication plans, audio plans, paperback dates, et cetera. Between the newsletter and upcoming releases we have you covered. Thank you for understanding.' And every day I get an email that just says, when is the audio book coming out? Or something like that. But it's partly this, I've had to cross this little personal rubicon where pretty much before last year I really believed that everyone who reached out to me with a question deserved an answer, and promptly. Because that person's about to throw down $15 for my audio book. And then I just had to come to a place of, 'Well, I won't ever produce another thing again if I'm always answering that question.'KJ (16:38):It's not a bad problem to have.Sarina (16:41):I saw it as a problem.KJ (16:42):I know you do.Sarina (16:44):Well, I actually don't respond anymore to that particular question and I definitely do not respond anymore to, 'Is there ever going to be another book about so-and-so?' Because, like I've said, I've reached this place where I can't actually reply to everything or I won't finish the writing goal of the day, but it feels bad not to tell that invested person that I can't answer your email. Except it says right over the contact form basically click here to see all the public plans. Like, if you're curious about a thing, here is the page for that. So yeah, I'm a little stuck.KJ (17:38):I know you have a virtual assistant, they could just weed those for you and have a canned response that says what the pink letters say, only friendly, not that pink letters aren't friendly. And then you would know like, okay those people all got an answer that basically said nothing, but I didn't have to do it. When I was getting my New York Times emails, I had somebody do that for some of the years, depending on the years, just, you know, volume of submissions, blah blah blah. Because I did feel like everyone deserved at least a basically automated response. It's hard, cause arguably everyone doesn't deserve a response. It's sort of like the social media direct messages for me. And that's an interesting one, Dan. Cause I don't actually ever go on this particular platform, but I have such a large following there that I don't want to shut it down. That's why the Twitter dm's come and my assistant handles most of them, but these were all things she couldn't handle. Somebody who was cleaning it out, but I don't know. I mean you've probably thought of that and there may be reasons that you haven't done it, or haven't done it yet.Sarina (18:55):Well, I have somebody on some of these platforms. But of course Facebook makes it difficult.KJ (19:04):Yeah, Facebook won't let you.Sarina (19:05):Yeah. Like if I share with my Canadian assistant, my login, then Facebook will flag me as not a real human.KJ (19:16):Really, Facebook messages are like the bane of my...that should have an audit. You should be able to have an automated response that basically says, 'I don't do Facebook messages.' or you should be able to turn it off.Sarina (19:28):Well, Instagram is actually even worse because they pile all of the actual messages in with so-and-so reacted to your story or whatever.KJ (19:38):Yes, that's a new thing that people can like make a little clapping sound under your story, which is fine. That's delightful, clap for my story. But now it's in my dm's and yeah.Sarina (19:49):Well, at the risk that I've just spent the last 10 minutes sounding like a horrible human who doesn't like having invested readers, I did listen to your podcast, Dan, when you were helping someone who was a nonfiction author, develop a more authentic relationship with her Facebook following and she was, I believe, a client of yours. And her topic was something very accessible, but also sort of serious, which was divorced, I believe. And you said the word authentic enough times when I was listening to it that I thought, 'Okay, okay.' So this is another lesson I need to take from you. And basically after I listened to that episode, I cut out a bunch of the things I was doing on social media that didn't feel authentic to me. And I basically came home and I wrote a list of when do I feel the most authentic in my social media communication. And then I just hammer that list lately. Like those are the things we're doing now because I feel the best about them. And I was left wanting to hear how that might change when you're dealing with people who write fiction though, because obviously somebody who counsels others who are going through a divorce has a very one-to-one relationship with helping that person. And since all marketing is sort of problem solving, but the problem I'm solving for you is just that you have something to read this weekend and you didn't before, so it's a more tenuous relationship with that follower. And I just wondered - you must have thought of this and I was curious about it.Dan (21:46):Yeah, I was thinking of this and I think it was maybe in Jennie Nash's newsletter this morning. She referenced like a Harry Potter podcast whose tagline was something like, 'We don't read for escape, we read to become more human or to more fully, you know, be a part of life.' And whenever I think of like a novelist, or even a memoir writer, I think of that. Which is, to me, it's not just about escape, it's about connecting to something within someone, a worldview, part of their identity, a theme, a possibility in life. And I think about how for a novelist that can be a part of what they share. And I also think a lot about the duality here, which is the author is not the work. You know, the work is the work and the person behind it is the person. Yet as a fan of a book, or a fan of a theme, or a story, or something like that, we can get engaged with the person behind it. And that's why we love seeing cat photos or dog photos of an author who doesn't write about cats or dogs. And we have little in jokes that aren't part of the book, they're a part of that. And I think about sometimes there's a crossover. There are things that novelists can share that is about the identity and about the worldview. So if you pick just big obvious themes about love, or friendship, or duality, or commitments, or whatever, you can think of lots of little things that one can share that they align with, the reader aligns with, and also kind of fits with stories. But I also think it is about being what you want to see in the world. The word authentic I think is a very challenging one, cause we like to think it's just what we want to do. It's like who we are. But authentic, you've got to be careful with that, too. Like what is authentic? If we were being authentic, we'd all be wearing pajamas right now. You know, we'd be in big comfy chairs, there'd be ice cream surrounding us, that's very authentic to how we'd like to be. But we're all probably wearing more regular clothing, we're sitting in a desk chair, we're sitting up cause we're on a podcast. And I think that we get to filter how we're authentic online. And I think that with this question or what you're sharing here and I'm thinking about, and even your other one, I think a lot about Bruce Springsteen. Partly because I'm from New Jersey and partly because the few times I've been actually right next to him, I'm surrounded by mobs of fans, and behind them are fans, behind them are fans, behind them are fans. And here's someone like you, who doesn't have enough time to get to everyone and he's had to find a way to be okay with that. And he is (to me) the great construct of an image of authenticity. He has an authenticity he's showing you that is true, but it's also a filter of what's authentic.Sarina (24:52):Yeah, well sometimes my readers help figure out these themes for me.Dan (24:59):Oh wow.Sarina (25:01):So well, yeah. So, of course I write in series and my series tend to have certain themes running through them. One of them is hockey, one of them is Vermont. So people will post in my Facebook group, news stories all the time that remind them of little things that have happened in those books. Like this past weekend, a goalie made a goal for his team by basically flipping the puck all the way down the entire length of the ice and scoring. So, when things happen that are newsy, those things will turn up in my reader group. And so people help me identify what are those external, internal. Like the blend of what people take away from fiction and put there. And for example, I had a book three books ago where a character's avatar was Lobster Shorts because of his picture. And he was known as Lobster Shorts for the entire book and people have been posting lobster printed clothing items since the day that book came out. So sometimes I get a leg up on what it is that people are charmed by or taking away from the stories, but sometimes it's mysterious to me and I have to sort of blunder my way through the conversation to figure out what's resonating and what's not.KJ (26:38):Well, I was looking at some notes from our interview with Marika Flatt a couple of weeks ago. And she had had this thing on her website about finding the theme of your work. Like the huge theme, not the individual theme for books. And I had was writing down sort of samples for me and samples for you. And I had written something like that your theme is romance can be hard but fun or something like that. Like, you know, it's complicated, but there's a joy in it and a humor in it. And to me, that's what comes across in your social media and that's what's authentic about your writing and your connection - is that there is always the humor. I mean, joy may not be the right word, cause sometimes it's kind of a snarky humor. But yeah, finding the funny in tough situations, to me, that's part of your brand.Sarina (27:38):Well that's the thing is it's great when people help you figure out what your brand is. But from where I sit, I'm looking at other romance authors and I see so much that's really not me. Like some romance authors, they're part of their brand or their family is part of their brand. And I'm more private than that, I don't share that much. It's possibly because I'm older and more circumspective, didn't grow up in a sharing culture, but I do struggle with that, too.KJ (28:13):What, with what you're not?Sarina (28:15):Well, just that I'm reluctant to share things that other people might share.Dan (28:19):One thing I look at a lot online is people that seem to be sharing so much as I really try to see, well where are their boundaries? And I'll notice things where someone has a big following and they're sharing their family, sharing their home, and their spouse, and their kids. And on that, well where are their boundaries? And if I look for them, I often see them where it's like, oh, they do share their kids, but it's never more than once a week. It's not always, but often a profile view, or it's at home and they never mention where they live, or the school, they mention them by nickname, they share their home, but it's only in a certain way. It's one thing I like to think a lot about is the agency that everyone needs to choose what and how they share online. Because I agree with you. Everyone needs to have their own boundary and it's a different place for everyone. And I like to think of it as an opportunity to define - you know, I'm going to share this interesting part of myself, whether people care about it or not, because who I am. And I'll share a little bit of this other thing, but only so far. And I think of that even in the offline world with polite conversation with how people talk and introduce themselves and how they're open and they're open to a certain degree so that they can get along and feel human, but then they protect the things that they feel should not be for public consumption either.KJ (29:43):So Dan, one of the things that I have done because of you and that I respect about you, is that you are really big on finding pretty much exactly what it is that we're talking about here. That authentic thing that we want to share or sort of the flip side of that is the audience that we want to reach. And by that you don't mean, you know women aged 18 to 35 living in big cities. You know, you mean who are we and who are we trying to reach? And you have some sort of ways to help people get at that. Can you talk about how we can figure out what our theme and our audience is if we're struggling with it?Dan (30:35):Yeah, there's a lot to take into there. I think in general, you wanna allow your audience to surprise you in a positive way. And I think sometimes we put up these rules about what we're not, and that closes us off to what we are or what we can be. So, one easy place to begin with this, and I'm not sure if this is too simple, but a lot of writers I speak to, they don't know where they fit in the marketplace. They don't know who their comparable books or comparable authors are. And they feel disconnected from social media because they feel they started too late. Is a conversation there a little too far back or is that okay?KJ (31:17):No, that's a good place to start. And let me just say that everyone feels like they started too late on social media.Sarina (31:25):That's true.Dan (31:25):Yeah. It's funny, this is something that I'm working into my next book and it was a part of the mastermind I run. Which is a couple of weeks in, I used to do a little video saying, 'Oh you're not behind.' And I noticed everyone loved that and I started moving it up and now I actually share that video the day before we start the mastermind. Because I found that even on day one, hour one, people now come in feeling behind from a lot of things in life and it already sort of makes their experience of things so much more difficult cause it's like showing up to a beautiful retreat and on day one you walk in and you already think everyone else knows what they're doing. They're dressed better than I am. They know where to go. Like it's sort of casts a shadow on the whole thing. So in terms of what you're about, I guess there's two main ways I think about it. One is internal and one is external. The internal way is I have a lot of different exercises I go through with people to get real clarity about what do you care about, what would you fight for, what would you rather spend time on more than anything else. So I have a process called clarity cards and it's really this idea of looking at not just what you create, but your whole life and thinking what matters to me. And some of that is task-driven. It's you know, your family, your health. But some of it is I've had so many people go through this and there's a lot on there that is about their fiction, and about their memoir, and about their nonfiction work. And what they're doing is getting really clear of this is who I am, this is what I believe, this is what I write about, but this is also why I spend my time there.KJ (33:02):Can you give us an example, without sort of calling out a person? Like what would be one of those themes that might pop up on these cards?Dan (33:12):I'll use myself as an example, cause it's the easiest thing to do with no preparation. You know, for myself, I am an introverted germaphobe who is scared of going out and doesn't travel cause I'm scared to fly. Yet I have this business where I work with writers and it's typically more in the marketing end of things. So, what that means when I look at that (and I tried to describe that really pathetically) so when you look at the themes that I care about, well because I genuinely care about people who create, it's writers and it's not just writers, it's people who create. Because I feel like if you're doing that, you are advancing our culture and you are taking a risk that other people are not. So you are my people. So one, I'm already defining it there. It's not just I help writers with marketing. It's the deeper why of why do I spend all my time? Why is my wife an artist? Why have all my friends growing up been artists and writers, photographers and performers all day now? I'm at 10 years of this company and all I do is talk to writers and creators. So it's that drive part of it. It's not just I help writers market things. It's the deeper why there. Then, I look at how you started this conversation, which is if we're not creating, nothing else can happen. So what I think a lot about is the creative process and like the photos on the wall here, I meditate on this idea of having clarity of what you create and embracing, of going all in. And when I look at stories of writers, or performers, or creators, I look at the ways where they did have to isolate themselves. They had to sacrifice, they had to have the world laugh at them, laugh at their idea, and persist anyway, and only later did they see what the genius was. Also because I believe in the creative process, I mean I'm working a few blocks from where I live. I have a very small life geographically and other things I kind of said tongue in cheek before (Oh, I don't like to fly. I don't like to go out.) well that's allowed me to embrace this idea of having a life that's dedicated to my family. I'm either with them or I'm here working with writers. So in a way that's a very small life. And what it means is that I've had to say no to a lot of things because I want to embrace those two things as fully as I can. So to summarize, if you look at my Instagram, or my newsletter, or my podcast, you see those themes coming up. It's who I am and that gives me a lot of latitude to not just say, 'This is the marketing for writers podcast where we teach you how to sell, sell, sell.' Which, sure, it's part of what I do, but it's maybe paper thin when you think about all the things holding that up and all the things that I love talking to writers about. And that's what I think gives me, you said this very generously earlier, which is like you seem to love what you do. And I do. And that's why I love what I do, because I've just explored - if I don't like to go out, and I don't like to fly, and I do this job marketing with writers, like how is that the thing that fuels me? And I wake up super excited to do this work.KJ (36:31):It is so hard to take the time to work through that thought process. But it's really, I think, important and rewarding and also a great thing to think about at the start of a new year and a new decade. Going back and revisiting if we feel like we've already done it, to go back and try to find those themes and find that clarity. I'm loving this as a general thought. So to bring it all back home to this question of, okay, how can we love marketing our work? I can answer that for you, but I want you to answer it.Dan (37:13):If you know why you create, if you make creating a priority in your life, which does mean a lot of decision making and turning down other potential obligations, and you believe that the work that you are creating has a purpose and that can be a lower case P, it can be an uppercase P for you, that this work can and will connect with someone, and you care about this for all whatever deep reasons you have, sharing that work is your ability to just communicate that, to just say, this is what I believe and why, and I'm sharing it with good intentions and not shoving it down your throat. As the idea of wanting to fill your life, not just with, I wrote these books and they're on a shelf at a store, but living the life of a writer is someone who fills their life with moments, and experiences, and other people who care about these themes, or these types of work, or the conversations you have. And I think that does look different for everyone. But in general, it's not just about how do we get it done. It's how do we build a life that feels fulfilling in what we create, how we share that with other people, how we connect with them, and how that comes back around. And I firmly believe that creative work is complete when someone else experiences it. Because half of that work is what you intended and half of that work is what the reader brings to it. And I think that that is utterly, totally, completely magical.KJ (38:50):I love that. And magic is my word of the year. So, now I'm especially delighted that we're sort of wrapping up on that note. So, to shift gears, I forgot to warn you, but I hope you remember that we ask everyone what they've been reading and loving of late and to give you a moment to regroup, Sarina will start. Ha ha, you're on the hotspot.Sarina (39:22):I am digging into The Starless Sea by Erin Morgenstern.KJ (39:27):Oh, I have that! Is it good?Sarina (39:28):You know, the beginning is great.KJ (39:31):I just finished Such a Fun Age by Kiley Reid and I am currently reading a book called How Could She and I forget who the author is. And I'm having this really interesting experience that maybe even gets down to what we've been talking about, which is that I don't like the people in either of these books. I don't think you're meant to, if I'm not enjoying a book on some level, if I'm not getting something out of it, and if it's not well done, if it's not fulfilling, I don't finish. And I 100% finished Such a Fun Age and I'm gonna finish the one that I'm reading right now, but in both of them, they both really center around people with what I would call kind of a sour view of life.KJ (40:40):And in a lot of cases, a sour view of pretty good lives. Now Such a Fun Age has a lot of characters that are hugely demographically different. It's got themes of race, and class, and money. So not every character is sour about their privilege, but none of the people in these books feel very hopeful. And so I'm not having very much fun with them, even though I'm reading them. And I don't quite know what to make of that. They are more challenging than reading, you know Red, White, and Royal Blue, which is so, so totally on my bedside table and I'm super looking forward to. So I guess there's that, there's different themes. But yeah, it is this question of do you spend more time reading about characters that you would actually like to spend time with or characters that you maybe have a different life outlook and maybe you want to know more about? Maybe that's where I am with those. It isn't that I don't recommend, I wouldn't mention the book if I didn't like it. It's just, it's a different kind of liking. It's a weird kind of liking. Your turn.Dan (41:57):My turn. I'm 200 pages into the thousand page biography on Churchill called Churchill: Walking with Destiny by Andrew Roberts.KJ (42:08):And do we like this? Do we want to spend more time with Churchill?Dan (42:14):It's interesting really, for probably the reasons you just said, a very complex character, very complex era. And this is a newer biography and it seemed to be the one that balanced (by all the reviews I could read) a lot of different thoughts, recent things that have come out, new archives that were not available earlier. So it seemed to be a very recent, modern take on a very complex subject.KJ (42:46):I just heard about a book that was about Churchill's wife and it's new and I am trying to find it, but I am stymied by the fact that there are actual human beings named Anna Churchill, and I think her name was Ana. Just throwing that out there and I'll find it for the show notes that there's apparently an interesting - I actually don't even know if it's sort of a fictionalized version or if it's a biography, but that she was apparently a really, really interesting character. So you can follow up, if you need more Churchill. Alright. Well, this was great. We really appreciate it. Before we sign off, tell people where they can find you and what you've got going on right now.Dan (43:40):You can find me on my blog at wegrowmedia.com. The podcast is called The Creative Shift with Dan Blank. Social media @Danblank and I have a little Facebook group called The Reader Connection Project that I've been doing a lot of teachings recently on social media for writers. We have a thousand writers in there, you're welcome to join. And I do a lot of different programs on the idea of how to connect with your readers and all the different facets around that from marketing, to book launches, social media websites, and then even what we've talked about a lot here, which is productivity for writers. So you can check all that out. Thank you.KJ (44:26):I'm going to give a co-sign to the idea of signing up for your weekly email because it is really good, and really heartfelt, and an excellent example of the genre, which I guess wouldn't be surprising since you read a lot of them. Sarina, you want to take us out?Sarina (44:45):I will, right after I sign up for Dan Blank's weekly email. I would like to remind you all to keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game. This episode of #AmWriting with Jess and KJ was produced by Andrew Parilla. Our music, aptly titled unemployed Monday was written and performed by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their services because everyone, even creatives should be paid. This is a public episode. Get access to private episodes at amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

2/19/20--We're coming at you today sandwiched between two debate nights. The first was yesterday's face-off between U.S. Senate candidates Congressman Joe Kennedy III and incumbent Ed Markey, and tonight's is, of course, the Democratic Primary Debate on the Las Vegas stage, where candidates Joe Biden, Michael Bloomberg, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren. First, Jennifer and Stephanie recap last night's U.S. Senate debate hosted by WGBH. The two Democrats share most of the progressive views, and as Jenn noted, neither candidate voiced a succinct and definitive reason as to why he stands out in this race. "Both of these folks have been doing their, sort of, press tour about why Markey thinks he should keep the seat and why Kennedy thinks he should get it, but they didn't, either of them, really seem to have a short, quick, clean answer even after all of this time," Jenn said. -- Laws mandating that mental health be treated with the same level of seriousness and coverage as physical health have been on the books for 20 years now. But state lawmakers are now calling out a lack of regulation that has kept mental health on the back burner for decades, leaving many people with mental illness struggling. And last week, the Senate passed the Mental Health ABC Act. Steve sat down with Senators Julian Cyr and Cindy Friedman, two of the people responsible for the bill. Friedman said of the mental health parity laws that were first established 20 years ago, "I believe that the way that we enforced it was very general, and I think that what we saw is that it was just a lot of self-reporting." With the new legislation, Friedman says, "What we've done is say, 'Okay, we're really serious.'" Under the new bill, carriers would be responsible for reporting that they comply, and, as Friedman explains, "They have to show us, for instance, what the process is for determining whether a medical surgical benefit is covered versus what the process was for a similar mental health benefit." Cyr has had his fair share of mental health struggles and said that outpatient mental health therapy has been helpful in both managing his anxiety and "in helping me do things I never dreamed I could." Cyr himself has not been able to get consistent insurance coverage for his mental health care. "I'm probably one of the most savvy consumers you can imagine. I'm a 34-year-old State Senator. I know how to navigate bureaucracies and systems," Cyr said. "If I can't do this, imagine how many other people in the Commonwealth can't get the care they need and deserve."

Nick and I chat about his journey of discovering freedom from pornography, dealing with negative sexual history, normalizing the conversation in our churches and homes, behaviors vs. core beliefs, and how Pure Desire ministrieshelps people find freedom from sexual addiction. Pure Desire Ministry 4:20 As we begin, will you share with our listener's a little of your story.  When did you come to know Jesus?  How did you end up working at Pure Desire?  "My little brain responded to it the way God has designed our brain to react to that, which is a sense of curiosity, intrigue, drawing, even maybe to level a bonding to what I'm seeing.  I'm wanting to see more and yet, at the same time, this repulsion of this is wrong. I can't tell my mom and dad. I don't know what I am doing...Sex came into my life in a way that was both secretive and shameful." "No one really knew what freedom and hope and lasting transformation looked like, so you go away thinking, 'Okay, this time I am going to try really hard not to go back there,' but because nothing on the inside has really changed it comes back." "I remember her saying, 'It's not that I hate you, but I hate the way this makes me feel and because I don't know if it is ever going to change...I don't know if I can stay'....Because of that moment of real pain, by God's grace, He used that to direct us into Pure Desire Ministries, where we went through a year of being in groups, both for myself as the one who struggled and for her as the betrayed spouse. And also a year of counseling, that was the first time in my life I sat down with someone who knew the Bible and also understood the human brain and addiction and how all of that didn't have to be contradictory, but it all fit together." "This was never our plan, but it became, by far, the best discipleship program we ever had" Setting Us Freeby Nick Stumbo "It does feel like people are making a moral choice, and they are. I don't want to in any suggest that because we understand the addictive nature of it, because we start to see what happens in the brain, that doesn't in any way excuse us from responsibility, that doesn't mean we can blame it on someone else...But it's trying to help believers see that there's more going on than just try harder and believe more." "What happens in the church is we see someone's behaviors and we say, 'Stop that! Don't do that anymore! Read your Bible and pray and don't make that decision.' But if we don't help them see the thoughts and feelings that are driving it and even deeper, the core beliefs that in our family of origin or trauma that we've gone through or places we've been wounded...."  SHOW NOTES continued --------------------------------------------------- Pure Desire Ministry ------------------------------------------------------ Follow Grace Enough Podcast on IG and FB ---------------------------------------------------------

Struggling to put a price on your time? Jess and Sarina (an economist and former trader on Wall Street) help your find that elusive number. A listener asked Jess for advice on consulting fees, so in order to find an answer more satisfying than, “It depends,” Jess and Sarina get down to economic brass tacks. Sarina explains how publishers or anyone else who wants to hire you for your writing value your time, and how you can propose a figure that takes everything from opportunity costs to fungibles into account. In an attempt to make pricing your time less complicated and emotionally fraught, Jess offers a simple formula to nail down a number that represents your hourly worth. Episode links and a transcript follow—but first, the #WritersTopFive that will be dropping into #AmWriting supporter inboxes on Monday, January 20, 2020 is ONE OF THE BEST YET: Top 5 Ways to Win at Newsletter Subject Lines. So sign up, support the podcast you love AND get weekly #WriterTopFives with actionable advice you can use for just $7 a month. (If you’re on KJ’s mailing list and have been impressed by her style lately—she read this early and took it to heart.)As always, this episode (and every episode) will appear for all subscribers in your usual podcast listening places, totally free. This shownotes email is free, too, so please—forward it to a friend, and if you haven’t already, join our email list and be on top of it with the shownotes and a transcript every time there’s a new episode. To support the podcast and help it stay free, subscribe to our weekly #WritersTopFive email.LINKS FROM THE PODCAST#AmReading (Watching, Listening)Jess: MasterClass and The Collected Schizophrenias Esmé Weijun Wang (and her Twitter feed)Sarina: The Lager Queen of Minnesota by J. Ryan StradalThis episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, where January is Become a Book Coach Month. Sign up for mighty and wondrous Business of Book Coaching Summit here—or visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwriting for details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s Inside-Outline template.NEWS ABOUT USWatch KJ’s latest in the #BooksThatWon’tBumYouOut series on Instagram HERE. Find more about Jess here and Sarina here.If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship.The image in our podcast illustration is by TKTranscript (We use an AI service for transcription, and while we do clean it up a bit, some errors are the price of admission here. We hope it’s still helpful.)KJ:                                        00:01                    Hey writers, it's KJ this week. Jess and Sarina recorded without me, but you'll barely even have a chance to miss me because I'm both right here and back next week. While they recorded I was off to a hockey tournament in Ottawa, but it didn't mean I wasn't writing. You have heard me talk about Jennie Nash's Inside Outline before and this was the tool that's really pushed me through a tough novel writing spot and has me feeling like I'm able to move forward, even if the muse is not present and mine definitely doesn't do Canada. Even if the hotel is depressing, and the weather is dreary, and I'm really not feeling it. Because I know where this book and I are going, I can still sit down and at least nudge us both in the direction of getting there. And if things change along the way, as they do, and have, and will, I can see where those changes fit in and what will happen when I make them. In fact, for this book (at least as it stands now) I've written about 17 outlines, which is a whole lot better than 17 books. So, if you're feeling the least bit stuck on your project, try applying the inside outline to what you've already written and to the scenes to come. It just might be exactly what you need to get over the finish line. #AmWriting listeners have exclusive access to a free download that describes what the outline is, why it works, and how to do it. You can find it at authoraccelerator.com/amwriting. Is it recording?Jess:                                     01:36                    Now it's recording. Go ahead.KJ:                                        01:37                    This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone and try to remember what I was supposed to be doing.Jess:                                     01:41                    Alright, let's start over.KJ:                                        01:43                    Awkward pause. I'm going to rustle some papers. Now one, two, three.Jess:                                     01:54                    Hey, I'm Jess Lahey and this is #AmWriting. The podcast about writing, about querying, about pitching, about what else? What else do we write here?Sarina:                                 02:05                    Finishing.Jess:                                     02:06                    Finishing things. That seems like such a long way off. Finishing things, but essentially really this is just the podcast about sitting down and getting the work done.Sarina:                                 02:18                    I'm Sarina Bowen and I'm the author of 30-odd romance novels and you can find more of my work at sarinabowen.com.Jess:                                     02:25                    And again, I'm Jess Lahey, I'm the author of the Gift of Failure and a forthcoming book, The Addiction Inoculation, Raising Healthy Kids in a Culture of Dependence coming out in spring of 2021 and a book I'm not ready to talk about, but I'm already researching for the year after that. And KJ you may have noticed is not here today. She's at a hockey tournament. So it's just Jess and Sarina today talking about a near and dear to Sarina's heart in particular since she has the background in economics. And one that makes me want to throw up sometimes - about your value, getting paid, how much you get paid, how much you quote, how you ask people, how you value your time. It came up because in this month's Poets and Writers is an article called Finance 101 for Writers. And part of that article included a worksheet for valuing your time and I took a picture of it and I texted it to you and I said, 'This does not seem right to me.'Sarina:                                 03:39                    Yes and I had harsher words for it.Jess:                                     03:42                    Okay, so essentially what this worksheet (by the way, I will say that the new issue of Poets and Writers, I guess the November, December, 2019 has some fantastic articles in it) I'm not dissing the magazine, but I am dissing the worksheet, but let's talk about it as a starting place. The worksheet itself asks you to figure out your expenses, and how much your life costs, and therefore how much your time is worth based on what your life costs, like what you would have to make per hour in order to justify spending an hour on something other than, I don't know, your main job or writing an article that can get you paid or whatever the thing is. And what's the problem with that?Sarina:                                 04:26                    Well, the problem is that somebody who lives in an inexpensive rural place is always going to, according to this worksheet anyway, price themselves down. And that's because there's a cost that the sheet is not picking up and it's pretty much our entire discussion here, which is opportunity costs.Jess:                                     04:44                    What is an opportunity cost, Ms. Economy?Sarina:                                 04:47                    Well, it's the term for exactly what it sounds like, which is what is the cost of what you're not doing in order to do the thing you're trying to price.Jess:                                     04:56                    Right, which is something I was thinking about yesterday as I was not editing my manuscript. Because if I hand in my edited manuscript, I will get the next installment of my payment from my advance, from my book. And instead I was cleaning up my Twitter stream, cleaning up my follows, and all that sort of stuff on Twitter.Sarina:                                 05:18                    So, opportunity cost of zero there, right?Jess:                                     05:20                    Exactly.Sarina:                                 05:20                    But also I have the benefit of having worked on Wall Street for 12 years. Where I was a trader of derivatives and everything there is really calculable. So it's one of the only careers where you can see on a day to day basis how much money you've made for the firm. And how valuable you are. Now also, that number isn't as measurable as it appears because some of that is franchise value. Like a monkey sitting in your chair could make a certain baseline amount and your real value is how much more than a monkey, you know. Anyway.Jess:                                     05:55                    So it's sort of like monkey plus Sarina.Sarina:                                 06:01                    But the thing about that culture is that you're always measurable at any moment and you're not afraid to measure it. Like you can see on the page, Hey, I made $7 million trading this year, so my bonus should look like some fraction of $7 million. But of course that's not how it works. The goal (somebody told me early on) was for management to pay you exactly the minimum that you'll accept without walking out the door to go someplace else. And if you think about it, book advances are just the same. So if your publisher is saying yes to your book or they're going to make an offer on your book, they're going to run a P and L first. Like how big is a market for this book? How much do we think we could possibly make on it?Jess:                                     06:50                    Which is why that section in your proposal, if you're writing, for example, as I do a nonfiction proposal, it's really important to say, here are the books that are out there, here's how my book stacks up, here's why I'm the uniquely perfect person to write this book, and here's how that will affect sales of this book.Sarina:                                 07:06                    Right. And if your agent is paying attention, she'll help you pick comps that performed. Because if you pick loser titles, then that doesn't work out.Jess:                                     07:15                    Actually, in my proposal, I had both winners and losers because I want to show how I'm different from one of those losers because they're going to find it. It's not like if I don't tell them about it, they won't know about it.Sarina:                                 07:27                    Right, yeah okay. So then it's their job just like on wall street to pick a number. That 1- they think they won't lose money. Like if we pay you $100,000 advance then are we going to lose our shirts, but also to pay you just $1 more than the next best bid.Jess:                                     07:47                    So in the conversation we're having now, just to sort of guide you through this conversation, at first we're talking about what your writing is worth for example, to a publisher. I also want to have a conversation about as a writer, how I decide, for example, what my speaking fee or my consulting fee because sometimes that comes up. If you write nonfiction, as I do, and you become an expert in something, people may come to you and say, 'Hi, we would like to buy your time.' And that seems to be the really wiggly part of this because I talked to my husband last night (he was recently asked to be a consultant for someone) and I said, 'How did you value your time?' And he said, 'Well, I went to someone at the hospital and asked what the going rate was for a physician on this topic and they told me.' And I said, 'Well, here's the thing, I'm going to have to come up with a number and I have nowhere to turn.' And it seems really relative to me, not only relative based on myself, but based on who's asking. So it's not like with a publisher where I say for example, my publisher, Harper Collins, and I don't have to worry about how much money they have. They have a pot of money to pay their authors. And I don't question how much money Harper Collins has, but I do question, for example, if I'm going to pitch my services to a for profit company versus a nonprofit company, or a school versus a private individual who can fly me somewhere and it's not going to make a huge dent, so that's why I think for writers in particular, plus so many of us just feel so darn grateful that we get to write words and make any money for it, that suddenly all these weird value judgements, and shame, and undervaluing ourselves comes into it. Which is why I'm so jealous of the whole, here's how much I made for the firm and here's the very basic, the bottom level of what you can pay me without me walking out the door. Because that's a big question mark for so many places and why it's been such a relief to hand the negotiation for my speaking stuff over to an agent, who has some of that background information about what organization's budget is before. So anyway, let's talk about that a little bit.Sarina:                                 10:04                    So I have a response to a couple of those things. And one is that yes, I will cheerfully speak at a Romance Writers of America conference for 150 bucks or whatever because I know that they just don't pay up for speakers and I'm going to get something else out of going there. The Goodwill of my fellow authors and maybe I'll learn something as well. So there are those moments when you just put aside your time calculation, but because you've chosen to.Jess:                                     10:36                    Right. For example, I will be speaking next year at South by Southwest EDU and South by Southwest/South by Southwest EDU, they don't pay. They just don't, no one gets paid. I was their big marquee keynote and I did not get paid. They put me up for one night, but that's sort of understood. There are certain places - you're not going to get paid to do TED, you're not going to get paid to do South by Southwest. There are just certain places that just do not pay. Hello, that's just sort of part of it.Sarina:                                 11:07                    Right. And we make those choices anyway. And that's why also if you've been asked to write a blog post for $100, you have to look at who's asking, right? Like, Nancysblog.com. You know, maybe you won't be able to say yes to that, but if it's the New York Times or the Atlantic who's asking, there might be other reasons why you would want to say yes.Jess:                                     11:32                    And it's funny you say $150 because when I started writing at the New York Times that's pretty much what I was getting paid. So you mentioned opportunity costs - could you give like a really just a description of what a definition for what opportunity costs are - just really quickly again.Sarina:                                 11:50                    Sure. Well, opportunity cost is the price that you could be making doing something else with that same amount of time.Jess:                                     11:58                    Does that take into account - for example, if I write for the New York Times, as a freelancer I am still expected to adhere to their journalistic ethics rules, which means that there are a lot of places I'm not allowed to speak as a speaker. It doesn't matter actually, their theory is if you're a full time writer there on staff versus a freelancer no one really knows the difference. Like the average reader is not going to know the difference. So I (as a total freelancer, with no benefits, no job security) I can't take a speaking gig with let's say for example Microsoft. Because the New York Times is probably going to write about Microsoft and there is this appearance of impropriety or that kind of thing. So, I then am undermining my future ability to earn in speaking.Sarina:                                 12:57                    So that all goes into your opportunity cost. And that's a pretty unusual one. Like most writers who are listening to our podcast aren't hemmed in like that.Jess:                                     13:07                    You would be surprised. You know, some places are a little more forward about it than others. But for example, like I said at the New York Times you have to sign something, the ethics stuff and you have to read this whole document that they resend out every once in a while just to remind you hello, just to remind you. And if you were to scratch deeper, I think a lot of places that should be doing that more with their freelancers, don't. But you would be surprised.Sarina:                                 13:38                    Well, I did sign that thing once and I remember specifically that you are not allowed to be a travel writer who takes trips anywhere and still write anything for the New York Times. That wasn't a problem for me.Jess:                                     13:51                    Part of the rule is also you really can't take money from anyone who might possibly be the subject of a future New York Times story, which is everybody. I mean, really, I mean obviously there are a lot. So that was one of the major reasons that I gave up my column at the New York Times after three years is that it was so restrictive in terms of my ability to write.Sarina:                                 14:15                    Well that's all opportunity costs. And the way that we come across our real opportunity costs is different for every writer. So I have five years worth of data on what I make when I write a novel. And I began to look at that in terms of what was my pay rate per word? Because before I was writing novels, I was doing some nonfiction for magazines.Jess:                                     14:44                    How can you know that immediately afterwards? Like that you would have to have a lot of accumulated data in order to do that.Sarina:                                 14:49                    Well, I do though. So I can look at books that I wrote in the past, and I can look at books that I wrote last year, and I can say what was my total take each time I managed to finish an 80,000 word novel? And what do I get paid? And I know roughly what it is.Jess:                                     15:04                    And you know how long it takes you to write X number of words. So you could come up with an hourly rate for your time.Sarina:                                 15:10                    Yes, or at least a daily rate. Like if I make 1200 day word count, I know roughly how much that's worth going forward in my life. So if I took a day off to write 1200 words for somebody else, I know roughly what I've just handicapped myself. Or here's where it gets interesting - if I accept my French publisher's invitation to go to a reader convention in Lille (which I turned down this year) and it's six days of my life, well that's like a really expensive trip. Even if they pay for everything and I meet a lot of cool French people.Jess:                                     15:46                    This comes up a lot when I'm asked to speak, for example, in the middle East or Australia. One of the reasons that I have not gone to speak in Australia is that by the time they pay to get me there, we're pretty much at my fee that they would also then have to pay on top of that. So it's an extraordinarily expensive proposition.Sarina:                                 16:05                    I was actually offered a romance convention in Australia with travel paid and I've found that there was yet one more kind of opportunity cost, which is my family would be so deeply hurt if I went to Australia without them.Jess:                                     16:19                    Well, and then on top of that, is, you know, if I'm going to Australia, there's not just the travel time, there's the recovery time. Honestly, after I've been on the road for a while, there for a day or two my brain is dead anyway.Sarina:                                 16:34                    Right and you're one of those rare people who can write on a plane.Jess:                                     16:37                    Not often, I'm just not good at it. As we have discussed in the past, I'm terrible about writing on the road.Sarina:                                 16:43                    So, I have an idea of what my days are worth. And sometimes when you're developing like a second stream of income, which is obviously a wonderful thing to do if you're a freelancer, right? So I have this sideline consulting business where I help other people publish their stuff. And sometimes, I have discovered by accident that my rate is too low. Because if I'm feeling kind of busy and I suddenly quote a more expensive rate and then the person doesn't blink, then my understanding of what that consulting work is worth just notches up a little bit. So that's useful.Jess:                                     17:21                    There's also another interesting thing that happens is I was feeling pretty good about a rate that I secured for a talk and I went to my group of people (my other speakers who are about in the same position. They also had bestselling books. They also have about the same amount of experience speaking. You know, they're sort of my wing people.) And I was feeling pretty good about the rate that I got. And then I found out that one of them got more. And now, no matter what, moving forward, I have this sort of chip on my shoulder about that event and I'm going to just chalk it up as experience to ask first.Sarina:                                 18:05                    On wall street we would've called that tuition. That's the tuition you paid.Jess:                                     18:10                    Believe me, with speaking there had been a lot of tuition payments that I've paid over time.Sarina:                                 18:16                    Yeah. And sometimes the opportunity cost is really only emotional. Like if I open Facebook right now, I'll probably see somebody announced that their romance novel is going to be a Netflix special in 2021. So, that's like emotional tuition. You know, get off social media because 1 - it's opportunity cost of your time and 2 - you will just feel bad if you look.Jess:                                     18:37                    So for example, time reading the comments, not good use of your time. As we try to be as concrete and as helpful as possible, I wanted to talk about a very particular scenario and I wanted to get your take on it. So let's say that a person comes to me and says, 'Hi, what should I charge as a consultant?' This is a total hypothetical (although I get asked about fees all the time and it's a really hard conversation for me because sometimes in consulting you can give an hourly rate or you could give a flat fee for a particular event or project.) Most of the time people are asking me about what should I ask for speaking. And so I'm going to do that one first. So if you're new to speaking (and I had to actually email the person who is now my agent who was not my agent at the time) because I did not know even what to quote as a price for our first time keynote, I had no idea. And she said, toss $5,000 out there and see what happens. And at the time I'm like, 'Oh, well that's embarrassing. Am I worth that? I've never done this before.' And I tossed 5,000 at them and they said, 'Respectfully, you are totally worth that, but we can't afford that. Here's what we can afford and we'll put you up.' And it wasn't $5,000, but it was fairly close and that was great. So I usually say to a first time speaker throw $5,000 out there and see what happens. I happen to know that even schools with small budgets can usually pull off $5,000, given certain parameters. Consulting is a little harder because given also who your audience is $5,000 for a talk I think is fair. Whether it's a nonprofit, whether it's a school, whether it's a for profit. Obviously if it's a super successful law firm, you can go higher than that. But for a first time keynote, $5,000 seems about right. But then you get into consulting and you get into situations where it's an individual asking for your services. For example, in a situation I end up with a lot is people asking me if I will consult one-on-one with a family to talk about parenting stuff. The answer is no, I don't do that. But I get asked a lot. Someone asked me about that recently. Another person asked me, 'Well, what if the place is a nonprofit, a place that I would be very likely to donate money to?' For example, I've worked for Vermont Public Radio, I've worked for the Albert Schweitzer Fellowship, a place I send money every single year. And it's really hard for me to take money from a place like that because, I don't know, I feel like it's just money swapping places. Just feels really weird versus a corporation. So talk us through a little bit. Is there a way to figure out, from a consulting perspective, like what you should ask and how much do you figure in who the client would be?Sarina:                                 21:50                    Well, the concept you're grappling with is the fungibility of money and time.Jess:                                     21:55                    And what does that mean?Sarina:                                 21:56                    That all of your money is fungible, usable in one spot as opposed to in another. So, humans have been demonstrated to be quite bad at something called mental accounting. Which is in our minds, we move money around in buckets and put little walls around it, when there really isn't. And it's actually quite necessary to one's health. Because there are these days when I'm standing in the food co-op thinking, 'Wow, the organic onions cost $3 a pound and the traditional onions are $1.50, can I afford the extra $1.50? And then I'll go home and somebody will show me a BookBub that costs $957 and I'm like, 'Yeah, take my money.' So, you know, if I were to stand in the grocery store and ask myself how many books do I have to sell tomorrow to pay for the organic granola, like that is not a good place to be. You have to make some little walls and buckets to move your life around without a lot of undue anxiety.Jess:                                     23:00                    Well, and it helps if you don't want to actually do the thing that you're being asked about because then you can quote high without the concern that you'll upset them or that they'll say no and never want to work with you again. But, what if it's someone that you really do wanna work with and you're afraid (as so many writers I talk to are afraid of offending or getting the feedback that, 'Well, oh my gosh, no, we couldn't even possibly.')Sarina:                                 23:28                    Well, first of all, this is going to happen at some point and you're just going to have to survive it. But when you said that first time speaker fee and you were told to throw out $5,000. I could hear how stressful that is. Because what if that's your one big shot and what if you just blew it because you said 5,000 instead of three? So it's all in the wording, right? We all know that when people speak to us or ask us for things that there's a way to put anything that is palatable...Jess:                                     23:58                    I used to do it in my proposals for speaking engagements. I would say this is my fee, but I am a teacher and I understand school budgets, and so if you can't afford that fee, let's talk. That was my sort of my way of giving them that, 'Yeah, yeah, but pat on the back, don't worry, we can still have a conversation.'Sarina:                                 24:16                    Right. So 'let's talk' is better language than 'or best offer'. Like when you see things on the list serve and it says asking $412 or best offer and you're thinking, 'Oh honey,' you know somebody's going to come in and try to get that for half that price. So yeah, so let's talk is really powerful. Like I might need to jot that down...Jess:                                     24:37                    I wanted to add also that it doesn't get easier (for me anyway). I mean, I have more information now than I used to in terms of who can afford what, but that's a matter of experience and time. I worked for amazon.com as a consultant on the Stinky and Dirty Show and we arrived at a fee for services, which over two seasons. You know, that first season, everything took me forever, and reading scripts was hard, and I couldn't visualize anything, and I wrote a ton of notes on everything, and I probably only made minimum wage that year. Whereas season two, I was much better at it and I did much better. So in my brain, I kind of averaged the two. Exactly, the first season was tuition. And that negotiation worked pretty well because they were skilled negotiators, which actually helped me a little bit because I didn't feel so embarrassed doing the negotiation because it was part of the process. But when I'm talking to a single person, especially in a nonprofit, and they're less skilled in their negotiation and I always feel a little apologetic.Sarina:                                 25:48                    Well, sure. So I get asks to go and speak at, for example, RWA functions all the time, like Saratoga Springs, Providence, Rhode Island. And these are places that if you look at a map, I'm reasonably close to, except the roads don't go from here to there. And I always turn these down, because they're on the weekends, during the school year. And it'll take me four hours to drive there and I won't enjoy it. And I just know going into that, that you have to listen to your gut. You know when it's not going to work out, almost from the first moment. So, if you say yes to things or low ball yourself, then you know how that's gonna turn out. And after you do it a couple of times, cause we all do...Jess:                                     26:38                    Yeah, it was a little easier for me. As I said, my husband who is physician, was asked to consult on something and I knew the price that he had quoted as sort of a professional fee that's accepted in the industry. And then I was able to say, 'Okay, well wait a second, I have a bestselling book, I have been researching this topic for 15 years now. Okay, I think it's fair for me to ask the same amount.' But also, without having sort of evidence of someone else's ask, would have been a really hard thing to do. The numbers that I tend to see out there in terms of professional, they're such a huge range. If you go online and you Google things like what should a consulting fee be, there are some websites that will give you, for HR it would be this, for marketing it would be this, so you can get kind of an idea. For writers, because what we're talking about is banking on our expertise that we've earned through lots and lots of research and experience, that can be a little bit more difficult to quantify. But, I feel like as writers, if we want to be dealt with as professionals, then we need to view ourselves as professionals, and we need to quote a number commensurate with the experience that professionals might have. And I will say one other thing, I also do pro-bono work and I love the organizations. I choose the organizations that I choose to do pro-bono work with very, very carefully because (and I'm going to say this is going to sound horrible) but in my experience, if I do something pro-bono, I am valued less. I usually get lower turnout, it's usually more work on my part because there isn't anything invested in the other side in making sure that it turns out great because it was free. It's free, so if it doesn't go great, we don't get great turnout, then it was a wash. Whereas I'm sort of expecting that people will say, 'Oh, this is free and your normal rate is whatever, thank you so much.' But that's not what happens. What happens is that I actually do better if I ask for a token amount as sort of an honorarium, because there's some investment in the other party's side. But I can tell you right now that when I undervalue myself, I am valued less by the person who is hiring me.Sarina:                                 28:58                    Well then we need to talk about book advances for a minute. Because this is a lot of the same stuff. So an advance, as you know, is money you receive up front and then as the book starts to sell and royalties come in, you know, it's clocked down until finally you hopefully earn out and then start receiving royalties on top of it. And there is widespread confusion on the part of even successful authors about what this all means.Jess:                                     29:27                    Basically my royalty statements are so confusing. I don't get royalties yet, I have not earned out my advance for the Gift of Failure. But, as you point out, there's two different, earn out my advance.Sarina:                                 29:40                    So hang on a second, because earning out is really only material to you. It's not material to them. So the royalty rates quoted in all of our contracts are fairly standard. And that means for each copy of a print book you sell, you are earning between 7% and 10% of the cover price. And sometimes we can have escalators, which it's fun to say this with a New York accent. I have an escalator, which means that after the first X thousand books, you get a slightly higher royalty rate. But let's just say pretty much 90% of the book contracts in the world are paying between 7 and 12% of the cover price, depending on whether it's a paperback or a hardcover or whatever.Jess:                                     30:29                    What if it's on sale? And it's not getting the cover price?Sarina:                                 30:33                    But it's the cover price, okay? So e-Books though, in that same contract, I swear to God, will say 25% of net proceeds, which does matter about being on sale. So that means your publisher is going to ship the books. It has a $30 cover price (just because that's a nice round number) and if you're getting 10% on those, that's like every time they send one out and it doesn't come back, you get three bucks. But with your e-Books, they're literally gonna look at the receipts that came in from Apple, and Amazon, and Kobo, and Barnes and Nobles' Nook and pay you the 25% of net receipts on that. So if they put the book on sale for $1.99 for a couple of weeks, then the amount of money that you earn in royalties (or counted against your advance) is 25% of 70% of $1.99. So, all of this ends up on your royalty statement, but those numbers do not reflect how happy or sad the publisher is.Sarina:                                 31:37                    Because they are doing a profit and loss equation in the background that you're not privy to, you never get to see it. Whereby they will be happy even if you never 'earn out' and start earning royalties because that is not the rate.Jess:                                     31:54                    So for example, I have not technically earned out the amount that I got for the Gift of Failure (which I had mentioned the number in an earlier podcast) but that can be okay. Because they can still be in the black for me, even before I get to the amount that I got as an advance for the Gift of Failure.Sarina:                                 32:19                    That's right. And if you need a concrete example of why that might be. Just think about your marginal e-book rate sale, like right this second as we sit here in the library talking about this, somebody is buying your e-book. And if it's 10 bucks, because I don't really know. Okay, but it's usually $10 and of that 10 bucks, your publisher gets about $7 and it didn't cost them anything today to sell that and they're only going to credit you with 25% of seven bucks. But that's okay because they're pretty happy to have the balance.Jess:                                     33:08                    As we've mentioned in earlier episodes of the podcast, I had to go out with a full proposal for this book that I am editing right now because we were worried that it's a tough topic, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I had said to my husband, 'I bet you I don't get as much for this book that I did for Gift of Failure because there was buzz and it was a viral thing and blah, blah, blah.' And I got the exact same amount. So that can be a pretty good indicator to me that my publisher is happy with me.Sarina:                                 33:36                    Of course. And also is a good indicator for the whole wide world that earning out doesn't mean anything in terms of publisher happiness. So, remember that though it's sometimes hard to be paid a ton for something. And this is probably true for speaking engagements, too. Like if you hit the jackpot or get paid a whole slug of money for a book and then it doesn't super perform, then you're kind of in the hole with that publisher. And if you want to publish again, you might need to...Jess:                                     34:09                    Now when she says in the hole, this is a question I get all the time, no, you do not have to pay that money back. But from a publisher karma perspective, you're a little in the hole.Sarina:                                 34:20                    Like if there's a frothy, frothy auction for your book, because that was the flavor of the week, you know, and this happens and that's like both an enviable and a tricky spot to be.Jess:                                     34:34                    That was, and believe me, the source of much anxiety. Because if I tanked, then I don't get to write another book probably.Sarina:                                 34:43                    Right. Well this has happened to me.Jess:                                     34:47                    I wasn't going to say it.Sarina:                                 34:49                    Well, that's okay. My publisher basically said in 2012 or 13, like you're dead to me. And that same publisher offered me a three book deal a few years later, but under a different name.Jess:                                     35:01                    Alright. So we have covered how much you're worth to a publisher. We've covered ask $5,000 for your first keynote. Consulting - let's say you are an expert - so I think a safe number to throw out as a consulting fee if you're going to be an expert in education for a company that has a budget, I'd say $500 an hour is a high end, but still acceptable number that won't make people vomit.Sarina:                                 35:44                    So lawyer money...Jess:                                     35:45                    Lawyer money. Well, because remember how I just said these are the professional numbers. If you look at what money lawyers get per hour and you look at what physicians get per hour. Now the reason I say that is this, I want to point out really quickly, I know we're running out of time, but I want to point out really quickly that when I looked up, how you calculate how much your time is worth as a contractor. The calculus is this. Look at how much you make you make per year. What is your income per year? And then divide it out. Divide it by 50 weeks per year, accounting for those two weeks of vacation, divide it out by 40 hours per week. And there's your basic number of what you're worth per hour, based on how much you make, which we already talked about as a flawed calculus. But still it's a good starting place to know sort of what an hour might be worth to you. And then according to organizations that sort of this is what they do - valuing consultants, they say now triple it. Because tripling it is an important thing to do because you're not being paid benefits, there's, there's no risk being taken on by your employer. And as we just mentioned, as with the New York Times, for me, there are costs to me of taking that. So freelancers take on a lot of risk without a lot of benefit. You may have to pay for your own healthcare, you may have to pay for your own retirement. All these things, which is true, for me. And that costs a lot of money that they're not having to pay. Now, the reason that multiplying by three may not phase someone who's looking to hire you is they know they don't have to pay your benefits. They don't have to pay for your retirement, your pension, whatever. So, valuing yourself at three times what your hourly rate might be makes sense. So I'm tossing between $250 and $300 out there for experts in science, or education, or parenting, or whatever that thing is that maybe you've been recognized as 'an expert', which fraught term, but whatever.Sarina:                                 37:53                    I'm considered an expert in parenting. I'm considered an expert in education and therefore here is my professional rate as an expert in that field. There you go. Do we want to talk about what we've read? We didn't even discuss if we're going to talk about that, we had so much money stuff to talk.Sarina:                                 38:10                    I'm reading The Lager Queen of Minnesota.Jess:                                     38:12                    Oh, how is that? The one with the bottle cap on the cover.Sarina:                                 38:14                    I'm really enjoying it. It's a third person narrative. And it's a really interesting third person voice and I can't wait to tell you how I liked it when I'm done.Jess:                                     38:22                    I've been listening to Masterclasses, still. And I listened to part of an economics master class with my younger son who's interested in sort of wanting to be able to get up to speed to have conversations

She writes Emmy-winning television comedy, bestselling children’s books, plays, and sentences for the Scripps National Spelling Bee. Is there nothing Jill Twiss can’t do?Musical theater actress and stand-up comic Jill Twiss dreamed of writing for television but did not know how to break in to the world of late-night comedy shows. The stars aligned when a few supportive women called some chits on her behalf, and lo, she landed a spot in the writing room of the Emmy-award winning show, Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. Her work on Last Week Tonight has earned her multiple Emmys, WGA and Peabody Awards, and led to a series of bestselling children’s books as well as the opportunity to write humorous “Can I have that word in a sentence, please?” hints for the Scripps National Spelling Bee. This week, Jill and Jess talk about how Jill got her start in television, her love of Vice President Mike Pence’s pet rabbit Marlon Bundo, how her children’s books came to be, their shared need for pressing deadlines, and Jill’s play-in-progress about the 1848 Seneca Falls Convention.Episode links and a transcript follow—but first, you know we dropped the Top Five Ways to Find the Right Agent to pitch into everyone’s inbox last Monday. What will our supporters find there this Monday? It’s SO FRESH WE DON’T EVEN KNOW. But if you become a supporter, you will. Support the podcast you love AND get weekly #WriterTopFives with actionable advice you can use for just $7 a month. As always, this episode (and every episode) will appear for all subscribers in your usual podcast listening places, totally free as the #AmWriting Podcast has always been. This shownotes email is free, too, so please—forward it to a friend, and if you haven’t already, join our email list and be on top of it with the shownotes and a transcript every time there’s a new episode. Want to share this one? Click here to share on Facebook, and here for an editable tweet. LINKS FROM THE PODCAST#AmReading (Watching, Listening)Jess: Good Luck with That by Kristan HigginsJill: The World Only Spins Forward: The Ascent of Angels in America by Isaac Butler and Dan KoisOur guest for this episode is Jill Twiss.Last Week Tonight with John OliverA Day in the Life of Marlon Bundo The Someone NewEveryone Gets a SayThe Marlon Bundo episode of Last Week Tonight (full episode): Just the excerpt about A Day in The Life of Marlon Bundo with a clip of the animated all-star cast audiobook: This episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwritingfor details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s Inside-Outline template.Find more about Jess here, Sarina here and about KJ here.If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship.The image in our podcast illustration is by Kate DeCarvalho. The music in our podcast is by Max Cohen.Transcript (We use an AI service for transcription, and while we do clean it up a bit, some errors are the price of admission here. We hope it’s still helpful.)KJ:                                        00:01                    Hello fellow writers. The beginning of the year is a great time to think about what you really want from your writing life and if one of the things that's filled you with joy in the past is time spent encouraging, editing, and helping another writer you might want to consider becoming a book coach yourself. Our sponsor, Author Accelerator provides book coaching to authors like me, but also needs and trains book coaches. And they'll be hosting a free book coaching summit in January for anyone who wants to learn more. If that's got your ears perked up, head to authoraccelerator.com/summit. Is it recording?Jess:                                     00:39                    Now it's recording.KJ:                                        00:40                    Yay.Jess:                                     00:40                    Go ahead.KJ:                                        00:41                    This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone and try to remember what I was supposed to be doing.Jess:                                     00:45                    Alright, let's start over.KJ:                                        00:47                    Awkward pause and I'm going to rustle some papers.Jess:                                     00:50                    Okay.KJ:                                        00:50                    Now one, two, three.Jess:                                     00:58                    Hey, I'm Jess Lahey and this is #AmWriting. Our podcast about writing all the things, the podcast about sitting down, getting the work done and often that work looks like pitches, looks like queries, looks like invoicing so that you can get paid for all that stuff. But really this is just the podcast about the nuts and bolts of being a writer.Sarina:                                 01:22                    I'm Sarina Bowen, when I do my writing it's about fiction and novels. I'm the author of 30-odd romance novels and my new one is called Heartland.Jess:                                     01:32                    And I'm Jess, again. And my work of writing is about mostly nonfiction and I'm in the process of writing a new book and in the process of editing it. But my first book is the Gift of Failure, How the Best Parents Learn to Let Go So Their Children Can Succeed. And we are missing KJ again today. She is still hockey tournament-ing. And we are going to have an interview today with someone really, really cool. But I wanted to catch you at the beginning of this, Sarina to tell you that you and our guest today have something in common.Sarina:                                 02:01                    We do, what?Jess:                                     02:03                    So a couple of years ago you sent us a text, KJ and myself, a text about the fact that someone had gotten a tattoo in your honor. And are we still at a couple of people, two people who have tattoos of your books?Sarina:                                 02:18                    I know of three...Jess:                                     02:19                    Three people. And what do they have on their bodies?Sarina:                                 02:22                    Well, the first one had the cover of Him.Jess:                                     02:27                    Okay. Him being one of the books that you have written.Sarina:                                 02:31                    Right. And then another one has a quote from The Year We Fell Down.Jess:                                     02:35                    Oh, that's cool. A quote, I love that.Sarina:                                 02:38                    And hers is in French because she helped me proofread the French edition. And then I have a lovely friend, Claudia, who has a tattoo of The True North titles.Jess:                                     02:49                    That's just so permanent. It's so permanent. I mean, number one, you gotta be a super fan to get a tattoo of. Well the other thing is you said that one of them has The True North novels, which means this is a tattoo that will expand over time, maybe.Sarina:                                 03:05                    Well, perhaps...Jess:                                     03:11                    What if you end up writing like 70 books in this series? It'll be like all the way up her arm or his arm.Sarina:                                 03:16                    Yeah, but I'll be dead from writing all those. So you know, we have bigger problems...But, so tell me about our guest.Jess:                                     03:24                    So our guest today is Jill Twiss and she is a writer on the show Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. And she found someone who has a tattoo of a rabbit on them and that rabbit's name is Marlon Bundo. Do you know who Marlon Bundo is?Sarina:                                 03:41                    He's the bunny in her book.Jess:                                     03:43                    The bunny in her book. And we'll talk to her a little bit about that tattoo and what it was like to find out that she has landed a place of permanence on someone's body, which just to me, blows my mind. I can't even picture. It's just amazing.Sarina:                                 03:57                    You know what blows my mind?Jess:                                     03:58                    What's that?Sarina:                                 03:59                    If your first book in Amazon is a picture book with like 8 million reviews and went viral, like I'm so excited for this.Jess:                                     04:09                    I know, this is going to be great also because as you will find out when you listen to this interview, it's her first writing job.Sarina:                                 04:16                    That's amazing. Okay, I'm ready to have my mind blown.Jess:                                     04:20                    Alright, so with no further ado, here is my interview with Jill Twiss. I am here today with Jill Twiss. She is a senior writer at Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. She has a crazy, amazing story. She has Emmies, she has WGA awards, she has Peabody awards. There are some other things she does that I am so excited to talk about. I'm not going to burst the the surprise right off the bat. But Jill, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.Jill:                                       04:52                    Thank you so much for having me. I'm such a huge fan of your podcast and I'm so excited to be here.Jess:                                     04:58                    What was really funny was when I first asked you to be on the podcast, you were on Twitter, I was on Twitter, and we were following each other and I messaged you about being on the podcast and you were so excited. You're like, I'm a fan. And I'm like, I'm a fan. So we got to fan girl a little bit. It was very, very exciting.Jill:                                       05:14                    Well, I'm new-ish to book world. And so this podcast was sort of as I was thrown into it, how I learned about what I was supposed to be doing.Jess:                                     05:26                    Well, and you come at it from a really unconventional angle, which is part of what I want to talk about today. Speaking of books - so you have now two books. One is about to come out. But you have a book out that some of our audience may have heard of, which is called A Day in the Life of Marlon Bundo, which is a children's book. And I wanna talk a little bit about how that book came to be. But I'm also going to link to a wonderful article that you wrote for Glamour about why you wrote this children's book since it seems in contrast with what you do day to day, which is to write for a late night audience. Which is a story that I love. Could you tell us a little bit about how Marlon Bundo came to be? Because he is a cool, cool character. Oh, and by the way, before I keep going, you tweeted recently that you saw someone with Marlon Bundo tattooed on them. How did that happen? How did you come across that?Jill:                                       06:28                    Okay, well, it was at my gym. I just happened to be there and I go to sort of a very fun, weird gym where we all know each other pretty well. And so we do a name game at the beginning of every class. And this woman heard me say, my name was Jill and she said, 'Are you Jill Twiss?' And then she held up her arm and she had a full Marlon Bundo tattoo. And she said she'd gotten them with her cousin. It was the craziest thing. I can't imagine ever even getting a tattoo of my own books, much less someone else's, but it could not be a bigger honor.Jess:                                     07:06                    Well, and I mentioned in the introduction to Sarina because she knows of three people that have tattoos of her books on them and one is a line from one of her books and two of them are just pictures of the books. And that blows my mind. That's a level of permanence and fandom that I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine. So tell us a little bit about this book, Marlon Bundo. Who in the heck is Marlon Bundo?Jill:                                       07:33                    Sure. Okay. So as you said at the beginning, I am a writer at Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. And I have been a writer there since the show started. So I am a pretty, you know, dark, angry, comedy writer kind of person.Jess:                                     07:51                    And I just realized that with you saying that, that I started in absolutely the wrong place. I don't have KJ here to kick me under the table to say, 'No, no, no. You're starting in the wrong place.' Which she does so brilliantly. Because am I correct - I heard somewhere that this is your first writing job, the Last Week Tonight. Is that correct?Jill:                                       08:11                    It was my first professional writing job, yes. I had done stand up comedy,Jess:                                     08:17                    I'm sorry, but we have to talk about how that happens because the idea that your very first job, professional writing gig out of the gate is with a late night television show. I guess we kind of have to start there before we can even talk about how Marlon Bundo came to be.Jill:                                       08:32                    Sure, it's a lovely story about women helping women, actually.Jess:                                     08:40                    Oh, we like those stories a lot.Jill:                                       08:42                    I don't want to mislead you, it wasn't an accident. I was very much trying to get a late night writing job. I had done standup comedy. I'd loved the comedy part, but the standing up in front of people made me sort of sick to my stomach all the time. And part of me was like, if you're not happier when people clap, maybe you're a writer, maybe this isn't for you. And I started to try to find writing jobs. And as everyone listening I'm sure knows, it's really hard. And the TV late night world is just really hard to break into because it's really hard to find out how those jobs are out there. And crazily I got an email one day from a woman named Nell Scovell, who I now know was the co-writer of Lean In. She wrote for The Simpsons. She wrote for David Letterman. I had never met her, or at the time heard of her, and she said, 'Have you ever wanted to write for late night?' And I said, 'Yeah, that's all I want. Who are you? What are you talking about?' And she said, 'I've been reading your Twitter. I think you'd be great at it. She said, you know, she had been a woman writing comedy for decades and sort of thought that was enough. You know that she was the woman in the writer's room, wasn't she doing enough for women? And she realized things weren't getting any better. So she wanted to start to find women. So in any case she said, I can't get you a job but I can get your packet read, I can get someone to read your stuff. So, literally within four months I had this job.Jess:                                     10:23                    You do realize that you're inadvertently ratifying David Sedaris's advice that he gave on our show (which is to never, well, and I'm sure you weren't like in a position of just sitting in your apartment waiting for opportunities to come to you) but his advice on our show was to never ask anything of anyone and just wait and be ready when the opportunities come to you.Jill:                                       10:47                    Well, if I go back one more step. I actually did ask something of someone because my job (I was a musical theater actress and I was a standardized test tutor) and I tutored a real smart kid whose mom worked for David Letterman. And when he did really well on the SAT I asked his mom if she would meet with me and if I could write a packet, and I ended up asking someone who I didn't really know to read over that packet. She was a writer for Conan and it turns out five years later Nell had gone to her and said, 'Do you know anybody that should be writing for TV?' And she said, 'I read this packet years ago. She should be writing for late night.' So I did ask for a little help in someone just reading something and giving advice. And she couldn't help me at the time, but when she could, she did.Jess:                                     11:42                    That is so cool. And you've used the word packet a couple of times, and that's a word I don't think we've ever heard on our show before. So I'm sure there are people out there saying, 'Oh my gosh, what's a packet? I don't have one. I need it. What is it?' .Jill:                                       11:55                    Fair. In the late night world, and that's, you know, shows like The Daily Show or Jimmy Fallon show, all the Jimmy's shows, Jimmy Kimmel's show. Instead of doing what you do I think in narrative television, which is you write a spec script of like a whole show, they want packets and every show wants a different packet. So you might write a whole bunch of monologue jokes that happen at the beginning of Stephen Colbert's show. For a show like ours, you're going to write something similar to what is going to air on the show and they give you that assignment. So you have to find out about the packet. At the time I did it, we didn't have a show, so it was a lot looser. It was a little bit like, guess what John Oliver might do on a show that doesn't exist yet. I think specifically they asked to write a domestic and an international story. For something like The Daily Show, you would write maybe something similar to what happens in like a seven minute increment. They might tell you exactly what they want, they might not. Every late night show has a different packet, but you generally have to write it specifically for that show.Jess:                                     13:09                    So there's no just like writing some vague generalized packet and hoping that it lands right.Jill:                                       13:15                    No, although weirdly I would recommend that, just because there's no way to practice this but to do it. And so I had written packets for shows that I never, ever got to submit that were just me trying to figure out, you know, how do you do this? How do you write a packet for this show? I had seen (it sounds crazy now) but I used to read like every article about writing for late night and someone had said, 'You know, well, at this late night show, they write monologue jokes. They show up at 9:00 AM and then they write till noon.' And I was like, great, three hours, I can write monologue jokes for three hours every day. So that's what I did. You know, I just tried to find like, let's pretend I have this job and figure out how to do it until finally, and it took a long time, someone gave me the opportunity to show what I'd been working on all that time.Jess:                                     14:08                    Is there a magic format for a packet? Like there are certain tells for hacks. Like you know, if I try to send in a spec script in just the wrong format or in a way that doesn't adhere to the look of the standard spec script, someone's going to ding it right away cause they're going to say, 'Oh, this person doesn't have the slightest idea what they're doing.' Or, we had a children's book author come on and she said one dead giveaway of people who don't know what they're doing with children's books is that they send in the wrong format, or an odd number of pages, or they say, and here's the illustrator I need to have in order to write this book.Jill:                                       14:52                    I did all of those wrong things, by the way. Literally, all the things you just said I'm pretty sure I did, but whatever.Jess:                                     14:58                    So is there a magic format for a packet? Is there a program out there that you have to have that adheres to this magic format?Jill:                                       15:07                    Weirdly, no, like late night I think is the Wild West of everything. Every show is different. I can't tell you they're going to be great about telling you what they want, but I think some of the best shows will give you samples of what their scripts look like and you can do your best to copy them. The closest I can give you is that you have to put it in the language of the show. You know, the packet you write for John Oliver is not going to be the same packet you write for Trevor Noah. Even if you're writing on exactly the same topic. So the big thing that they're looking for is, 'Yeah, are you putting some of yourself in there because we're hiring you because of you, but also are you in the voice of the show? We're not interested in you changing the whole format of the show. I think some people like to come in and be like, you know, I have a new idea. Like what if Jimmy Fallon was in space the whole time? And it's like, well, you're not showing us that you can write the show that we have. This is really you showing you could start today and fit in with the show that's already there.Jess:                                     16:16                    I was a political speech writer for a while and part of the fun (for me anyway), was the challenge of writing in someone else's voice completely and not letting my voice dominate. So that's a really interesting balance. And are there times when you write scripts and then the person who for example, John Oliver, will put his own particular read on it so you don't have to be too worried about writing it exactly the same way he would say it?Jill:                                       16:41                    Oh yeah. I think of course he's going to put everything in his own words. I will say, because some of us have been there since the beginning, I've absolutely adapted to John's voice, but I think in some weird ways he's adapted to our voices, too. There are jokes he tells because I love them or because you know, someone else loves that voice and he (I think) has just a lot of skill at doing lots of different kinds of jokes. So I for sure have adopted his speech patterns, but I think he has in some ways altered his speech patterns for all of us, too.Jess:                                     17:20                    That's fascinating. Alright, so back to Marlon Bundo. So you're writing on a television show, which isn't the normal pattern of things that the next thing on your plate, affiliated with the show is a children's book. Will you tell us how that came to be?Jill:                                       17:37                    Sure, yes. We are not a children's show. We say a lot of words that you wouldn't say on children's shows.Jess:                                     17:45                    But you do have a lot of very cute, mascot looking creatures that come on the show.Jill:                                       17:54                    It's true, we do love that. So it happened that I was and am obsessed with a very real bunny named Marlon Bundo. Who is, if you don't know, the Vice President, Mike Pence's actual pet.Jess:                                     18:10                    Now is he still around? Bunnies don't have the longest lifespan. Is the real Marlon Bundo still around?Jill:                                       18:15                    To my knowledge, the real Marlon Bundo is still around. I don't want to start any conspiracy theories here. I believe that there is still a Marlon Bundo living.Jess:                                     18:29                    I will put it in the show notes if I find otherwise.Jill:                                       18:32                    Right. Yeah. Don't blame it on me. And Marlon Bundo had an Instagram and I loved this bunny. It's a very cute bunny. I am not, perhaps, the biggest fan of Mike Pence and some of his policies. And one day I saw an announcement that they were releasing a book about Marlon Bundo. And for some reason I got like weirdly territorial, as though I had any ownership of this bunny, which I obviously do not. And I was like, 'No, I want to write the book about Marlin Bundo.' So I pitched it, I just wrote an email that said no, we should write a book about Marlon Bundo. That, you know Mike Pence himself does not have the kindest record perhaps with same sex marriage. And so we decided to make Marlin Bundo a gay bunny.Jess:                                     19:27                    So you pitched it to the show, not necessarily to a literary agent first?Jill:                                       19:31                    Oh, not at all. No, that was in no way involved.Jess:                                     19:35                    Did you have a literary agent at that point?Jill:                                       19:37                    Nope, I did not. I also didn't have a TV agent, for whatever that's worth. No, I just pitched it to the show as like we should put out a book, which, you know, I pitch a thousand things to the show and most of them don't happen. But they said, 'Okay, yeah, let's do it.' And we had a quick meeting just to decide if it should be an actual children's book or if it should be one of those like parody books that's really for adults, but looks like a children's book. And I think we just decided why not? Like, why not write a kind book for kids about a thing that really matters to us.Jess:                                     20:20                    Now the writer in me and the person who now understands publishing timelines is freaking out. Because if you have just seen that a press release or some sort of release on the Twitter feed about the fact that they're going to come out with this book about Marlon Bundo, how on earth do you get a children's book out in time to have it still be relevant to the release of the other book? Because that was part of the deal when it was announced is that it was a competing book with the real Marlon Bundo's book. So how do you make those timelines work? Publishing moves slow, Jill.Jill:                                       20:55                    The great news is I didn't have to do any of it. I wrote the book, actually I didn't even... I went back to my office and we didn't even assign a book at that point. We were just kind of like pondering some ideas and I said, 'You know what, I'm just going to write something that way it'll be easier for them to be like, Oh no, not that. Now that we see that, we'll say, not that, we want something more like this.'Jess:                                     21:26                    You have a comfort with rejection of ideas that will be so refreshing to so many of our listeners because still - there's a pitch I put out there like two weeks ago and I haven't heard back and I am just feeling all sorts of rejection and yet now I can have Jill Twiss's 'almost everything I say gets rejected at some stage of the game' You're my new voice in my head. I love it.Jill:                                       21:52                    I mean, all of us probably write I would guess 30 to 50 jokes for every joke that goes on the show. So that's just the norm for sure. So I wrote this - just a thing just to be like, 'Hey, I don't know what about this?' And they said, 'Oh yeah, that. We'll just publish that.' So, it turned out to be like a day-long process. We changed literally a couple of words, had someone help us with things that you're talking about now. Like this is the number of pages or whatever. And I now realize that the publisher, Chronicle, was probably flipping out. But, not my problem. I didn't know. I had no idea. We found, again, what I now know is an extremely fast illustrator. We just picked the best person we found. Who was E.G. Keller, who is fantastic.Jess:                                     22:55                    I have to say, the illustrations are absolutely fantastic. I love the illustrations.Jill:                                       22:59                    When you were saying earlier you can't ever come in demanding an illustrator, that's exactly what I did for my next book. I didn't demand anything. That's not at all true. But after this (we're skipping ahead), I did get a literary agent, and she did sell us together. So my next two books are also with the same illustrator.Jess:                                     23:20                    And your next two books, including the one that is going to be coming out soon, which is called The Someone New...Jill:                                       23:26                    Oh, that one's out.Jess:                                     23:27                    Oh, that one's out now. Okay.Jill:                                       23:28                    That one was out last June so you can buy that one right now.Jess:                                     23:31                    Okay. So the two books you're talking about are in addition to the Marlon Bundo book and The Someone New?Jill:                                       23:37                    No, sorry, I'm saying this weird. So Marlon Bundo exists in the world of the show. My first book, that is entirely outside the show, was The Someone New and that is about welcoming someone new to your life, or your country, or your whatever.Jess:                                     23:57                    It is delightful, and beautiful, and sweet. I got a little choked up reading The Someone New. Well, mainly, I mean the town that I live in (I'm right near Burlington, Vermont) has been a sanctuary city. You know, there are lots of someone news in Burlington. Every single time I'm out and about in Burlington I run into people who are new to town and it had a really important place for me in terms of thinking about what it must be like to try to be new somewhere. And I love the book. I absolutely loved The Someone New.Jill:                                       24:36                    Thank you so much. I went to 11 schools in 12 years, so I was always the someone new. So when it came down to, Hey, you can actually write anything now, generally when I write for the show, I have very specific parameters. So when it came down to I had a literary agent, I could write a children's book on anything I wanted. What I wanted to write about are the things that really mattered to me right now, which is welcoming someone new to our country, but also just - kids are faced with new things every day. And new things are scary. You know, you don't know when you're a kid. And I really wanted to help that new kid in school...Jess:                                     25:23                    Which gets back to your Glamour article, you talk in that article about the fact that it can be really, really difficult to reach people who are adults, who can be really entrenched in their thinking, and really entrenched in their views. Whereas with kids, there seems to be more of an openness and (that's not easier to write to) but it's a welcome and it's the reason that I've been a teacher for so long is it is so wonderful to be able to reach someone when before they've become completely entrenched in their views one way or the other and have a conversation about things that are difficult.Jill:                                       25:59                    Yeah, I think that whatever side of the political spectrum you're on, one thing that we're all experiencing is just finding out that adults are tough sometimes. They're frustrating. It's hard to watch things happen and realize that people are just so set in their ways and they don't want to hear always what's true. They want to hear what they want to hear. And kids, everything's new, you know, and they are perfectly willing to learn a new fact, take it in, change their mind if it changes what's previously there. There's just such a wonderful openness and I have so much hope for the next generation and I need that hope right now.Jess:                                     26:48                    Yeah. There was a moment when I was teaching at my very first teaching gig, I was teaching middle school kids and there was a kid who came from a really, really remote rural town. You know, he came into my classroom and from the first day he would say things that I could tell were not his words. He was parroting things that he'd heard from other adults. And it was really interesting cause he was putting things out there to see what our reaction would be. And it led to some really, really interesting conversations and moments when he realized, 'Oh, I do believe that thing I said', or 'No, I don't believe that thing I said, but I'm just putting it out there because I've never had the opportunity to get feedback on the thoughts that I hear from the adults around me. So it's just really cool to be able to get inside of a kid's head and see how their thought process is when they're forming their identity, and their views, and their beliefs, and their ethics. It's really cool.Jill:                                       27:47                    I've really fallen in love with the book world, first of all. But the children's book world and just like the chance to go and read books to kids and sing songs with kids. I don't have kids, so this is new to me. Everything I've learned in the children's book world has been a shock as far as like what age kids read what kind of books, like all of that stuff. I'm learning at sort of double speed as I go through this. But it is just delightful to get to work with kids and see them and you get nice emails instead of mean emails, you get nice pictures of children and dogs with your books instead of like me and emails of people threatening to you know, hurt you.Jess:                                     28:33                    Well, and speaking of kids you do something that I just had never even thought of as a task. You write sentences for the Scripps Spelling Bee. How did that come about? And how is that a gig that you become aware of and get?Jill:                                       28:52                    Yeah. Well first of all, I'm obsessed with the spelling bee. I have been for years. So it was very much on our radar. And again, I would pitch it as a story for the show and we did do it on the show once as just a short, funny story in the show. Right around then, I hit this stage of my life that I would I highly recommend, which is just ask for things you want. I don't know. Maybe they'll say yes. I've never done that before. But we did that story about the spelling bee and then I went to our executive producer and I said, 'Do we have a contact there? Can I ask them if I can write for them?' And she was like, 'Why would you want to do that?' And I was like, 'Fine, not your problem. It's fine. And I literally just emailed the spelling bee, told them what I do and that I had worked on the piece for the show and I said, 'I know you must have comedy writers write sentences. Like, I've seen the sentences that show up there, can I be one of them?' And they said, 'Yes'. That was really that easy, which I know is not how life works. And I know I had many years of opportunities not coming like that. So, now that I have a little clout and a little something, I'm just asking for all the weird things that I want. My next goal, I'm just going to put this out in the world, I want to write for the Tony awards. So if you know anyone, if you could make it happen, let me know.Jess:                                     30:20                    Very cool. So wait, they give you the word and then you write the sentence to go with the word that helps? So when the kid says, 'Could you give me that word in a sentence?' you're writing that sentence?Jill:                                       30:31                    Yes. Not all of the sentences. They have like really great experts writing sort of I'll say 'not funny sentences'. But, yes. So they do that to make sure everything is grammatically exactly what it needs to be. It's really important. It's so much more important that the sentences be correct than that they be funny. But they have comedy writers that go through maybe a month before the B and write a certain number of comedy sentences for it. And then this year for the first time, I actually got to go to the spelling bee. And as it was on the air, we were up there writing sentences for words that were coming up because they could switch the order of the words, for anyone that saw it this year, everything went crazy because there were eight champions and so everything was sort of getting decided on the fly. So we write sentences there, too.Jess:                                     31:31                    Wow. I actually had read somewhere, I think it might've been at the Tony awards one year, that they were writing - it was the year that Neil Patrick Harris rapped at the end and they were writing the rap during the show as winners were announced. First of all, Neil Patrick Harris, all hail Neil Patrick Harris and his ability to learn that stuff and perform it with like 10 minutes to spare. But the television world always to me, you know, Shonda Rhimes talks about writing for television as laying tracks while you're on the train that's going to... Sorry, Shonda, I'm sure I said that terribly, but it has always petrified me because of the speed at which things need to happen. So I'm always amazed when I hear things like the script story, where you're actually under pressure writing stuff while the show is happening.Jill:                                       32:20                    I was nervous because our show is once a week. And I have a lot of people, I have a lot of oversight on Last Week Tonight. But I actually found it incredibly calming. There's something really nice about not being able to read over what you've done. I'm writing a play right now and it could not be more stressful because I just have infinite time to revise and do and if it's up to me I will just revise for the rest of my life and no one will ever read anything I've written. So there's something really calming about being there and being under time pressure and being like, well it's out there. It worked or it didn't work. Who knows?Jess:                             &

We all want what's best for ourselves and for those around us. Sometimes, the best outcome can require a bit of persuasion. But how do we do it effectively? In this episode, learn how to develop influence in your career and with those you love! "You are a role model. If you don't believe that, what you fail to recognize is that people are watching you. People are paying attention to who you are and how you show up. They notice how you treat them and how you lead. If you’re just going through the motions, that’s not going to inspire them to want to connect with you, to build a relationship with you. So in every situation, you’ve got to be the person who says, 'Okay, I’m going to step into this as a role model.'" If you want to develop influence in your life, this episode is for you! Get your High Performance Planner (before we sell out!) Get HPX Optimized For more training on high performance, at a deeper and more interactive level, join us in High Performance Monthly training program. It's my monthly subscription training program where I go LIVE every month, training you on a new topic or piece of research from High Performance Institute as well as providing LIVE coaching! If you like this, you'll LOVE that. Subscribe at https://Brendon.com/monthly Subscribe to my YouTube vlog. New episodes (almost) weekly. Join 2 million subscribers on my weekly newsletter, FOUR BREAKTHROUGHS. Get a free copy of my book High Performance Habits (I bought it for you, you just pay your shipping). Follow me on Instagram. ABOUT: Brendon Burchard is the world’s leading high performance coach and one of the most-watched, quoted and followed personal development trainers in history. He is also a #1 New York Times bestselling author and in the Top 100 Most Followed Public Figures on Facebook, with over 10 million fans across his pages. O, The Oprah Magazine, and Success Magazine have both named him one of the most influential leaders in personal growth and achievement. Brendon's videos have been viewed more than 200 million times, and 2 million students have completed his personal development online courses and video series. He's created 13 blockbuster online courses, including the most popular motivation, confidence, and habits online video courses of all time. For these results, Success Magazine featured him on its cover, and Oprah.com named him “one of the most successful online trainers in history.” A #1 New York Times, #1 Wall Street Journal, and #1 USA Today best-selling author, his books include High Performance Habits, The Motivation Manifesto, The Charge, The Millionaire Messenger, and Life’s Golden Ticket. Meet him at Brendon.com   

Join Eric, Scott Slade, Michael Albanese, and the Doctrinaires as they chat about Trump's moat, Real ID's, the 'Okay' symbol, and much more!