Podcasts about susan you

Susan's life is both fascinating and riveting! Her journey as a professional horse trainer, competitive ballroom dancer and world traveler has led her to create an amazing body of work. Here's an excerpt from Susan that's sure to titillate you. There's more to come in our podcast!“I kept studying dressage because I wanted to get to the essence of true riding  partnership…20 years of ballroom dancing…more searching for the essence of true partnership.  I wanted to improve my feel for riding and find a way to help students find the feel as well. In 2011, I packed up a successful dressage business in Southern California and went looking for deeper answers for myself and humanity. It took me through South Africa and then landed in India. After a number of years in India and support to return to the Western world, I found myself back in the horse world. Integrating dressage, dancing, and a spiritual inquiry has led to developing Awakened Horsemanship https://selfseeds.com/sales-page-template-copy-2. Awakened Horsemanship is based on 11 simple experiences of one's mind, body, and spirit/soul.  The program is created for rider's as a dismounted workshop to heighten the ability to know one's self and transmit that clarity through the riding. The experiences apply directly to the horse as well.Currently, the journey has led me to Kentucky and a farm, Horse Woods Haven,  https://horsewoodshaven.com where I have created an environment harmonising the land, woods, and the horses.  It has provided a profound opening to understanding the herd as an observer, steward, and member of the herd. The next step is offering online and farm workshops. The land stewarding has deepened my partnership with the Earth.”  Susan  “You have to grow from the inside out. None can teach you, none can make you spiritual. There is no other teacher but your own soul.” - Swami Vivekananda May you always be one with your horse, Caroline

“A lot of times we don't do it because we're afraid or we think, ‘My resume is not right. I haven't interviewed in a long time'. But there are steps that you can take to get ready,” explains Susan Collins, certified growth and leadership coach and founder of The Network Concierge. Today, she discusses strategies and tips for breaking free from fear and uncertainty and building the career of your dreams through developing your network. True authentic leadership requires not only advocating for your own boundaries and happiness, but also advocating for others and investing time and effort into developing your network. Susan explains that at their core, humans want to help one another, and it is never too late to reach out and rebuild relationships. If you are sitting at your corporate job and thinking that something just is not right, you owe it to yourself to see what else is out there. It can be daunting, especially if you have not interviewed in awhile or have not attempted a lateral career move before, but there are several tools available to help make the process easier like GlassDoor and LinkedIn. Even if you are in a job position that you enjoy, it is always a good idea to plan ahead for what comes next. Susan suggests thinking 12 to 18 months ahead and beginning to plan for a career shift while you are at your current job. Put time into developing your network so that when you are ready for a change, you will have people in your corner ready to help.  Quotes: “A lot of times we don't do it because we're afraid or we think, ‘my resume is not right. I haven't interviewed in a long time', but there are steps that you can take to get ready.” (4:38-4:46 | Susan) “Lateral can be just as impactful as up or forward.” (5:23-5:27 | Susan) “You have to put effort into your network and even if you feel like it's too late in the moment, it's really never too late to start building your network again.” (14:29-14:39 | Susan)  “Too often we run from a job instead of to a job.” (23:19-23:22 | Susan) “Take the time to explore the things that keep coming back into your head and give yourself that opportunity to see if it's worth it.” (33:07-33:16 | Susan) Links: Mentioned in this episode: Learn more about Mike Horne on Linkedin Email Mike at mike@mike-horne.com Learn More About Executive and Organization Development with Mike Horne   Learn more about Susan Collins:  Website: https://www.thenetworkconcierge.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sgcrecruit/ The Network Concierge on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-network-concierge   Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Episode 97: How Intercultural Creativity® is Impacting our Climate for the Better With Susan Israel Susan Israel, the founder and president of Climate Creatives, an architect, artist, social entrepreneur, and change agent, joins us in a very fascinating episode wherein we talk about what she does and how she started. What kept people from taking action? Fear and a lack of conviction that their actions are important. Susan thinks that because we're so focused on the present and the future, we're either unaware of what needs to be done or don't feel any sense of urgency. She states that if she could help people make the right decisions, she could have a greater impact on the climate. In this episode, we'll discuss some fascinating subjects like using visuals to express new behaviors, using behavioral research to train leaders, and using art as a platform and tool to draw attention back to nature. Topics Covered in this episode of The Create and Grow Podcast: 00:24 – Who is Susan Israel?03:11 – The Art Of Climate Creatives05:53 – What Are The Client Feedback For This Unique Process?07:53 – Expressing New Behaviors Through Visuals 10:44 – How The Art Process Is Done At All School Levels 12:36 – Leadership Workshops As Behavioral Study  15:10 – How Universality Affected Susan 16:48 – Small Steps For Climate Change 22:24 – Earth Preservation For Future Generations Subscribe:  Spotify | YouTube Connect with Susan Israel Visit Susan Here Connect with Susan You can also see Rising Waters Connect with Genein Letford: Visit CAFFE Strategies Visit GeneinLetford.com Follow Genein on Facebook   #CAFFEStrategies #Intercultural #Diversity #InterculturalCreativity #Creativity #InterculturalCreativity #innovation #HowInterculturalCreativity®isImpactingourClimatefortheBetter #DEI #DiversityAndInclusion  

In this episode of the Transformational Pathways podcast, Anu talks to veteran educator Susan Baxter. Susan, who is currently president of two Toastmasters clubs, namely the Podcast Pioneers and New York Storytellers, retells the story of how she first discovered Toastmasters. She also talks about how her membership has improved both her professional and personal lives. Susan's experience with Toastmasters has benefitted her immensely, and invites everyone to first determine their personal goals and then looking for the specific club that will match their interests. As Susan will tell you, there's literally a Toastmasters club for everyone, and they will help you achieve your goals if you are willing to put in the work. HIGHLIGHTSHow Susan discovered ToastmastersToastmasters can help improve both personal and professional livesTeaching in New York and joining multiple Toastmasters clubsA Toastmasters club for podcasters Why do you want to join Toastmasters?Toastmasters will help you achieve your goals if you work on itQUOTESSusan: "Toastmasters helped me be quite successful when I was dean and helped me feel much more comfortable doing my job and meeting people and cold-calling different CEOs to come and be a part of the speaker series." Susan: "When I put on that suit, that armor of who I am professionally, I can be at Lincoln Center and announcing the graduate school to the college president going, there they've met all the criteria and I mean, imagine all the people in Lincoln Center, all the parents and everything, packed, standing room. I can stand on that stage and do what I need to do as Dr. Baxter. But when I'm Susan, that's when the fears hit of, am I going to say the right thing. I don't feel that way when I'm Dr. Baxter." Susan: "If you're looking at Toastmasters, one of the things to consider would be, why? Are you looking at it to learn another language? There's a club for that. Are you looking at it because you're trying to lighten up a little bit, there's humorous clubs. Are you terrified of speaking in front of other people, then think about you want a large club or a smaller club."Susan: "You can do whichever way you want. There's not a wrong way, which makes Toastmasters work for anybody. And it is the best money you will ever spend to get support to improve not only your public speaking, but you make connections with people from every walk of life, and it's fabulous." Connect with Susan and in the link below:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susancbaxter/Find out more about Toastmasters, visit https://toastmasters46.org/ and follow District 46 on:Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/toastmasters46/LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/toast-masters-district-46Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TMDistrict46/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/toastmasters46/Twitter - https://twitter.com/district46tmPlease rate, review and subscribe!Toastmasters - where leaders are made.

What you'll learn in this episode:   Why jewelers from the Pacific Northwest have a singular style, and how Laurie draws inspiration from her environment How Laurie and other artists in the Northwest School of Jewelers incorporate found objects, humor and wordplay into their work What inspired Susan to focus on American jewelry How Susan sorted through Laurie's 30-year archive, and what it was like to write “North by Northwest: The Jewelry of Laurie Hall”   About Susan Cummins   Born in 1946 in Minneapolis, Minnesota, but raised primarily in Atherton, California, Susan Cummins specializes in contemporary art jewelry and spent many years as a gallerist in Mill Valley, California. In 1983, Cummins took over Horizon Gallery in Mill Valley, re-naming it the Susan Cummins Gallery. Noting a lack of representation, Cummins settled on American jewelry as a primary focus for her gallery. Eventually, Cummins relocated to a larger space in Mill Valley and became known for representing painters and jewelers in the same gallery space, blurring the rigid distinction between fine art and craft. Cummins maintained the gallery until 2002. In 1997, Cummins helped found Art Jewelry Forum, a nonprofit tasked with connecting people working across the field of contemporary jewelry and educating new audiences. She continues to be a frequent contributor and is currently serving as the board chair. Cummins has also served on boards for arts organizations such as the American Craft Council and the Headlands Center for the Arts. Her primary focus in recent years has been her work as director of the Rotasa Foundation, a family foundation that supports exhibitions and publications featuring contemporary art jewelers. Susan Cummins was elected a 2018 Honorary Fellow of the American Craft Council.         About Laurie Hall   Laurie Hall, along with Ron Ho, Kiff Slemmons, Ramona Solberg, and Nancy Worden, is part of what has been called the Northwest School of Jewelers, an influential jewelry art movement centered around an eclectic style of narrative and composition. Laurie Hall is a long-time artist and educator from the Pacific Northwest, whose work has exhibited internationally. In 2016, her work was featured in Craft in America's exhibition Politically Speaking: New American Ideals in Contemporary Jewelry. Laurie's work is part of numerous private and public collections including The Museum of Art and Design in NYC, The Tacoma Art Museum, The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston. Additional Resources: Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com: Coney Island Express 1983 Carved polychromed wood, bronze, sterling silver, string, and found cocktail umbrella  1 1/2 x 1 1/4 x 16 inches Private collection  Photo: Roger Schreiber   Stumped 1988 Yew wood, sterling silver (oxidized), and antique compass 13 x 1/4 x 3/8 inches The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston, Helen Williams Drutt Collection, museum purchase funded by the Morgan Foundation in honor of Catherine Asher Morgan, 2002.3793   Cubist Café 1987 Sterling silver (oxidized) 6 1/2 x 12 3/4 x 1/2 inches Tacoma Art Museum, gift of Mia McEldowney Photo: Doug Yaple   Wrapped Up in the Times 1987 Sterling silver (oxidized), aluminum sheet, and decoy fish eye 6 x 4 1/2 x 1 1/2 inches Sandy and Lou Grotta collection Photo: Richard Nichol     The Royal Brou Ha Ha 1996 Sterling silver (stamped), stainless-steel fine mesh, hematite beads, and sterling silver foxtail chain 10 x 10 x 1 1/2 inches Tacoma Art Museum, gift of Sharon Campbell Photo: Richard Nichol   One Screw 2009 Bronze screw and sterling silver 1 x 1 x 1/4 inches Curtis Steiner collection Photo: Curtis Steiner   No. 2, Please! 1988 Bronze, found No.2 pencils, basswood, and color core 16 x 3/4 x 4 3/4 inches The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston, Helen Williams Drutt Collection, museum purchase funded by the Morgan Foundation in honor of Catherine Asher Morgan, 2002.3791   Behind the Eight-Ball 2008 Fabricated marriage of metal ball (copper, sterling silver, nickel silver, bronze), copper frame, found printing plate and stencil, and sterling silver 2 3/4 x 3 x 1/2 inches Marcia Doctor collection Photo: Roger Schreiber   Transcript:   Although her work has been shown internationally, Laurie Hall's jewelry is undoubtedly rooted in the Pacific Northwest. As a member of the influential Northwest School of Jewelers, Laurie's eclectic, often humorous work has drawn the attention of numerous gallerists and collectors, including Art Jewelry Forum co-founder Susan Cummins. Susan recently captured Laurie's career in the new book, “North by Northwest: The Jewelry of Laurie Hall.” Laurie and Susan joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about the influences behind the Northwest School; where Laurie draws her inspiration from; and what they learned from each other while writing the book. Read the episode transcript here.  Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode.    Today, my guests are Susan Cummins and Laurie Hall. Susan has co-authored with Damian Skinner a new book, “North by Northwest: The Jewelry of Laurie Hall.” For 20+ years, she was the driving force behind Art Jewelry Forum, which advocates for contemporary art jewelry. Laurie is an arts educator and jeweler from the Pacific Northwest whose jewelry has been exhibited internationally. She's a key figure in the Northwest School of Jewelry, an influential jewelry art movement centered around an eclectic style of narrative and composition. If you haven't heard Part 1, please go TheJewelryJourney.com.    Welcome back. Susan, did you see Laurie's work somewhere and said, “I want to show that,” or did Laurie send you a photo and say, “Do you want to carry my stuff?” How did that work?   Susan: I don't think Laurie sent me anything. I think I saw her work in a gallery in San Francisco that had it before I did, the Lane Potter Gallery.   Laurie: Right.   Susan: It could have been that I saw it in the catalogue for Jewelry U.S.A. or another invitational of some sort, or I could have seen it through Kiff Slemmons, who I was also showing at the time. Somehow or another, I saw images of it. I had a show—I can't remember if it was a group show. Maybe it was Northwest jewelers; I don't remember the reason for the group show, but it seemed to me that Laurie's work would fit into that. That's when she did the café piece, because Laurie always was very conscious of where her pieces were going.    If she was doing a show that was going to be in the San Francisco Bay Area, she wanted to do something that reminded her of that area that she thought people there would relate to. She thought San Francisco was kind of like Paris, in that there are cafés and Bohemians, life and art and all that. So, she made this café piece that looks like it could have been something that Brock or Picasso did early in their careers. There's a guitar in there. There are tables with plates and chairs and things askew, as if in a cubist painting, and the word “café” in big letters across the top. It was something she thought the San Francisco community would like.    When she did something for the East Coast, she often thought about folk art and Americana, so she used whirligig figures, literally off of whirligigs, or folk art-influenced imagery, like people riding a bicycle, or a tall bicycle with a top hat on and a little message, or the words “Coney Island” on it so they would be thinking of Coney Island. It was very folk art, Americana-like, which she thought the East Coast would be more interested in. Laurie was definitely making work for these markets she showed in, very conscious of that and very accommodating to it. Anyway, did I answer your question? I think I got carried away there.   Sharon: Yes. Laurie, how did the fact that you were a teacher influence the work you did? I don't know if you're still teaching.   Laurie: I taught for over 38 years. The cubist café was because we were studying cubism. I taught calligraphy, lettering and graphics. I love lettering and graphics, and the kids influenced me a lot because they would comment on what I was making or doing. I didn't work at school, but I'd sometimes bring a piece in and show it to them. Did I answer it?   Sharon: Yes.   Susan: Why don't you talk about that piece you did that was a challenge for the students in your class to make something like it?   Laurie: Yeah, you mean the football thing. At Mercer Island High School, they always win all the sport competitions, football, basketball, baseball, soccer, everything. Sometimes they'd shut school down when they were in the finals. I had a whole bunch of football players in my class, and they all called me Hall. They all thought I was cool.    Sharon: I'm sorry. You were cool? Is that what you said?   Laurie: They thought I was cool.   Sharon: For a minute I thought you said cruel, and I was going, “O.K.”    Laurie: No, they called me Agent Orange and Galleon. It was quite funny. They all wanted an A, and they kept coming up and saying, “What does it take to get an A? This is an art class. It must be easy to get an A.” I said, “All right. We're making jewelry. You guys have to make a necklace and wear it into the lunchroom if you expect to get an A. You have to wear it. I really want you to wear it all day, but I won't be able to see you all day.” Anyhow, they did it, and everybody enjoyed it.   Sharon: And did they get A's?   Laurie: If they deserved one. Just by them doing it, I thought they deserved an A because of that, yeah.   Sharon: It's a high hurdle, walking to the lunchroom with something like that.   Laurie: Yes, guys with big necks and everything. It was humorous.   Susan: You also did a piece yourself that had to do with the idea of football, which was a sandwich board piece you wear over your shoulders, front and back. It was called “Rah, Rah, Sis, Boom, Bah.” There were footballs flying over the goalposts and flags and people waving and numbers and all kinds of things.   Laurie: I had a little candy. They used to give candy out. If you had a date to the football game, they'd give you a favor, a little tin football with some candy in it. So, I used that football on the necklace. That was my found object that I had, but how did I come about having that? I think it was in my brother's drawer upstairs in my parents' house.   Susan: No, somebody invited you to a football game and gave you a piece of candy.    Laurie: I doubt it. I probably stole the candy in it.    Sharon: Laurie, was there a point in your jewelry making that you were selling but making so much that you said, “I can't teach right now”? Was there so much demand, or no?   Laurie: No, I had a really good job. I needed the money. I had no other means of support because I'm a single lady, and I loved it. It was consistent. It was reliable. I had no desire to make production jewelry. I worked for Robert Lee Morris one summer for six weeks. It was interesting, and I really liked Robert. I went to his workshop up in Lake Placid, New York. He made that Coty collection of bracelets that are all aerodynamic, and he was talking about that. I used hollow construction a lot because I'm not a flat jeweler. I really make dimensional things.   Sharon: Yes, you can see that now.   Laurie: To me they're sculpture; they really are. They're sculptural, and I like the way they interact with the body. It's a sculpture on the body, as I said, but I'm not really intellectual about what I'm doing. I'm just recording things that I think other people could find interest in and making them. Do I know they're going to find interest in them? I've always been lucky my work has gone out. Am I big seller? I usually sell what I make, but I can't make that much. I've always been interrupted by school. I had a lot of kids every day. I was in a public school, and then I had to clean the room and get the supplies. I had a whole lot of energy. I'm kind of amazed at what I did at this point.    Sharon: Have you ever put on a piece that you had been playing with and said, “This is too flat,” or “It's not talking,” or “This isn't what I had in mind”?   Laurie: You mean do I mess up and trash something? Yeah, of course. There's one piece in the book that's made out of an aluminum ruler. I made that piece three times and even had it photographed. I don't have a lot of money, but I don't think about that. I just go and do something because I know I'll have to figure it out later. When I finally got that piece done, it went to a gallery and it sold immediately, but I made it three times. I have evidence of the way it looked along the way.   Sharon: What was it the other times? You didn't think it was dimensional enough?   Laurie: It just didn't do it. That's all I can say. To be honest about it, it wasn't compelling. There are compelling ideas. Some people can sit down and design something and make it—I'd say there's the ordinary way things look where they're acceptable, like a lady the other day showed me a picture of something on a TV set and said, “Is this your piece?” I looked at it and said, “No. It's nice, but I don't make that kind of thing.” I don't try to make nice. I don't try to make acceptable. I just try to make something that's got a little bit of magic to the message. You don't get it right away maybe, but you keep wanting to go back and look at it. That's what I hope for, and that's what it does to me when I make it. I either know it works or I know it doesn't work.   Sharon: Do you have a story in mind that you want to say, or message in mind that you want to get across in a piece before you start it?   Laurie: Sometimes, like when I found the screw, I knew what I was going to do with it. I saw what was behind the Eight Ball. I saw that ball thing, and I had some Corbusier letters. They were stencils, and I had the monkey. I knew I wanted to make a marriage of a metal ball, and I wanted to see how round I could get it. That was the high bar, so it was technical in one aspect. I try to go over the high bar sometimes.    What other piece can I talk about? The “Wrapped Up in the Times” piece doesn't have any found objects in it other than a glass eye, but I had aluminum, and I made the newspaper out of aluminum because I could cut letters. If you know how you can do it with the materials you have available—and I work with anything. If I think it will work in the piece, I work with it.   Susan: We should say that “Wrapped Up in the Times” is a fish wrapped up in The New York Times. It's a pun. I was going to say a couple of things about Laurie's work. One is that she really does describe the Northwest. If you've ever lived in the Northwest, which I have, either in Portland or Seattle, there are so many references to her place of origin that you just can't miss them. For example, there are a lot of boats in her work. There's water or fishing references. There's a bridge. One necklace is of the bridge. Portland, if you've ever been there, there's a river that goes through the city, and over the river are many, many bridges. There's also a lot of wood and log sections, like rounds of cut wood which came from some branches of a hawthorn tree—I forget what it was.   Laurie: Yew wood.   Susan: Yew wood, yeah. Those sections were all arranged around a necklace with a little compass down in the bottom, which refers to a story about Laurie getting lost in the woods. She called it “Stumped,” again referring to getting lost in the woods, but also referring to the fact that Portland was a big source for lumber companies back in the 19th century for wood. For a long time, they cut the trees and left them stumps, so there are vast areas where there were stumps. Even today, Portland is known by the nickname of Stumptown, and you can find Stumptown coffee around town. It's a brand of coffee. There are parts of the city that are called Stumptown. So, it's a joke, and yet she made this necklace that has this title.    A lot of Laurie's pieces are like that. They are puns or plays on words, or just something funny. There's another piece called “The Royal Brewhaha,” which is about brewing tea. It's got tea bags all around it, all of which Laurie made, but it's about the English, so the royal part comes in making a deal about something. It's just funny and fun. She's often very clever about how she names them. It's also things that are coming from this area, except maybe “The Royal Brewhaha,” but many things—   Laurie: Except it was Princess Di and the royal family. I am Scottish, English, Irish, all the British Isles, so I couldn't help but identify with her because she was so tortured by the royal family. I hated that, so I had to make a piece about it.   Susan: Everything that she's doing is coming from her place, her environment. Everything around her and in her life is incorporated one way or another into the pieces.   Sharon: Susan, in writing the book and interviewing Laurie and going through the archives, what surprised you most about Laurie's work?   Susan: I knew Laurie to some degree before, but not all that well. It is fantastic when you write a book about somebody and you get to ask them every single question you can think of about themselves, about their lives, about their backgrounds, about the piece they made. We literally went through all the work Laurie had ever done that we had pictures of, and I said, “O.K., Laurie, what's this piece about? What's it made of? When did you make it? What were you referring to?” So, we have something written up in our archive about every single piece.   I don't know if there's any one thing that surprised me about Laurie, but everything about Laurie was interesting and funny and fun and amazing in how original her work is, and how she embodies a certain area of this country, and how she was a very American jeweler who was interested in stories and her place of origin. I think none of that was a big surprise, but it all was really interesting to me.   Laurie: Ramona had used things from other places in the world, and I could relate to what she had done, but I didn't want to do it again. I knew I wanted to celebrate American things, and that was it. Then I went about trying to describe it, not thinking it out until I had to make things. I'm very driven by a deadline and a vacation and having time to work, because I worked all the time.    Sharon: Were you picking things not just from America, but from the Pacific Northwest?   Laurie: I was living there and I loved where I was from, so I couldn't help but record what was going on in my life.   Sharon: I'm curious, because in the past 30 years, let's say, everyone has even less of an understanding of your work. I could see how it would be like, “Oh look, you have this ethnic jewelry over here, and you have your cool jewelry over here,” which is really unusual. Have you seen more “I don't get it” in the past 30 years?   Laurie: If someone saw the café necklace on, they'd want it, or they'd say, “Well, maybe I can't wear that, but I really like that.” I don't want to worry about that. I didn't worry about it, and I'm still not worried about it. That's what's wrong. I think Dorothea Prühl was not thinking too much about acceptability. I love her pieces. Being free and expressing your own self or your original thoughts is better than anything else. It really is.    Susan: I think Laurie's work speaks to American interests. I don't think those interests have changed a huge amount from when she made these pieces, but she's been making pieces all along. She's still making pieces. She's still reflecting her times and her place. I think we're talking more about the beginnings of her career or some of the earlier pieces, but the later pieces are also very similar in their humor and their personal reflections of where she is. That doesn't change much over time. Your environment is your environment. The Northwest is the Northwest. There still are influences from nature, from First Nations people. There's a lot of imagery you can see all around Portland and Seattle from the Native Americans who were there originally, which influenced Laurie's work as well.    Laurie: I love that stuff. It's the same feeling. It was looking at the materials. Making with materials is so exciting with the colors, the textures, all of those things. It's just so exciting putting them together.   Susan: And that's pretty much constant with what Laurie's made all along.   Sharon: Laurie, was there something surprising or interesting that was thought-provoking as Susan was interviewing you and you were thinking more about the work? Were there surprises or reflections you had that hadn't occurred to you?   Laurie: I think Susan explained how I think. That was a surprise to me, because I didn't think anybody could figure out how I think. That was the biggest gift she gave me. I was so pleased with the writing and also with Damian, with some of the things he'd say to me. It was fun. We interviewed a lot, and it was always exhilarating.    I never did this because I was trying to make a living or be famous or anything, but I did it because I liked expression. Even from when I was a kid, I won a poster contest. I was in the fifth grade. Everybody at the school entered and I won; the fifth grader got first prize. I never felt that my primitive style would be rejected. I also felt that I could go ahead and be the way I am inside, put it down in paint, put in down in printmaking, put it down however—not that I didn't have to work hard to get one composition to work, but another one would fall into place. There are quick pieces. Then there are long, hard pieces that you work on. They're all different.   Susan: We should also say, Laurie, you were teaching art in general in your high school classes.   Laurie: I wasn't just a jewelry teacher. I was teaching painting, printmaking, graphics, textiles, everything. I had to go out at the end of the day and go from one end of Seattle to the other getting supplies. Then I'd go down to Pacific Island Metal where they have all this junk, and I'd think, “Oh, look at that! Look at that, this metal!” I love metal, I really do. I can make sculpture for the body, but when you think about making your sculpture that is freestanding, I haven't done much with that yet. I still want to make some tabletop ones, little ones, but it's putting things together that's so exciting.    Sharon: So, there's more to be explored. I have to say the book is very clear in terms of explaining your thought process behind each of the photos, which are beautiful, as well as your thought process in general. It's published by Arnoldsche. How do you say that?   Susan: Arnoldsche. They've published a lot of books on contemporary jewelry, especially European ones, but they've also published more American writers about American jewelers now. Toni Greenbaum just published one on Sam Kramer. The influx book that Damian and Cindi Strauss and I worked on was also published by Arnoldsche. They are really the best distributors of contemporary jewelry publications.   Susan: Yes, and I was excited they were going to publish my book.   Sharon: It sounds like such an honor. It's a beautiful book. It's available on the Art Jewelry Forum site, ArtJewelryForum.org, if you want to see a beautiful book. It's also a very readable book with the pictures. Thank you both very, very much. It's greatly appreciated. I hope to talk to you about the next book.   Susan: Thank you, Sharon. Thanks so much for having us.   Laurie: Thanks, Sharon.   Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.      

Apocalyptic London. Daleks. Resistance Fighters. Robo-men. Companion-worthy side characters. Some of the most iconic shots of Classic Who....and an ending the changed the show forever. Welcome to commentary and analysis on Doctor Who's  "The Dalek Invasion of Earth!"Arriving in a London seemingly devoid of people, Team TARDIS quickly realizes that the Daleks have invaded the planet and decimated the human race. Split apart from each other, the Doctor, Susan, Barbara, and Ian end up embroiled with the human resistance as they race to stop the Daleks before the implement their "final solution." SUSAN: I can't stay, David. I don't belong to this time.DAVID: But I love you, Susan, and I want you to marry me.SUSAN: You see, David. Grandfather's old now. He needs me. Oh, don't make me choose between you and him, please!DAVID: But you told me! You said that you'd never known the security of living in one place and one time. Look, you said it was something that you always longed for. Well, I'm giving you that, Susan. I'm giving you a place, a time, an identity.SUSAN: Oh David, I do love you! I do, I do, I do!____DOCTOR: Believe me, my dear, your future lies with David, and not with a silly old buffer like me. One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs, and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. Goodbye, Susan, goodbye, my dear.____There are A LOT of references to this serial in New Who and A LOT of firsts, so the commentary runs a little long on this one as we work through all the threads. I also briefly discuss the portrayal of the Daleks in this serial, the way in which humans react to stress/horrific situations, Terry Nation's desire to position the possibility of rebirth after horror, and, of course, Susan's departure. NEXT TIME: We are going to pause and do a special episode Celebrating Susan Foreman. Because we should! We'll move on the following week to Serial #11 The Rescue!Special thanks to Cathlyn "Happigal" Driscoll for providing the beautiful artwork for this podcast. You can view her work at https://www.happigal.com/ Do feel free to get in touch to share the love of all things Doctor Who: throughthevortexpodcast@gmail.com

Welcome to Off the Shelf! You can follow me on Instagram here: Phoebe @ Pause Books HQ (@pausebooks)  You can follow me on Twitter: Phoebe @ Pause Books HQ (@PauseBooks)  My guest this week is Susan: You can follow her on Instagram here: Susan Furber (@susanfurberwrites)  You can read more about her work here: Susan Furber (susanfurberbooks.com)

Susan Milender: Welcome to thriving on the prairie. This is a podcast exploring issues concerning families and communities that inspires North Dakota movers shakers and community difference makers to engage in lifelong learning. I'm Susan Milender, NDSU Extension family and community wellness agent and I'm located in Barnes County. And today I have the honor of visiting with Carrie Johnson, who's our NDSU specialist for family and  personal finance. So today, Carrie, we get to discuss holiday spending or maybe how not to spend during the holidays. And, you know, to start off, Carrie, I just want to say that the holidays come every year at the same time. And every year, I'm surprised that it snuck up on me.Carrie Johnson: Yeah, so we're quickly entering this holiday season of 2020 you know this year, more than others, has been a difficult year to plan for the future. So it can really almost feel like ‘The Nightmare Before Christmas'. Ideally, people would have started saving for the holidays. Shortly after the New Year, in January. But many people's circumstances changed so rapidly this year or uncertainty is really impacted people's ability to save. It does feel like the holidays came a little earlier this year than they typically do.Susan: I know Carrie, just really seriously snuck up on me and you know, I love that you said, ‘The Nightmare Before Christmas' because I can continue with that thread. By saying that I don't want to be a grinch this holiday season, even though I didn't really plan. So, you know, after all, this is the season of COVID. So who can really plan? Every day is totally different. Right?Carrie: Exactly. Susan: So, you know,  …..And I think that the holidays are stressful enough. And then we add this unpredictable nature of our economy and shutdowns, and maybe like less hours at work or less items on the store shelves, or….. gosh, delayed deliveries and not to mention that social distancing factor. So I guess I could go on and on, but, you know, Carrie I sound like a negative Nelly, sorry.Carrie: Yeah. You know, I think we could be negative about the 2020 holiday season. Or we could change our attitude and find that silver lining. Even though this year might look a little different than it has in the past, it could really be an opportunity to re-envision and reimagine what we think of the holidays. A word I've been trying to use a lot lately is pivot. So now I know not everyone likes change, family holiday traditions are a big part of this time of year. And it's really fun to dream about something that looks like one of those hallmark movies or a Pinterest picture, but we really need to be careful not to compare ourselves with others. Everyone's circumstances are different. The reality is that if we're strategic and we make a plan, we can really find ways to celebrate the holidays this year without breaking the bank.Susan Milender: Yeah, so, you know, Carrie, right now as you were talking, I was thinking about Christmas coming up and all of the holiday traditions. So, you know, if I were sitting on Santa's knee right now. I think that I would ask him for that holiday season filled with sugar plum fairies for everyone, just like you said, I love that Pinterest pictures because I had those rolling through my mind. But you know what the reality is with this year, some people are facing tough financial times. And yet others have had that good fortune of being able to continue on their regular path. So, you know, either way, we all want to be really smart with our money, and we don't want to end up with that debt hangover in January. So I'm really thankful that you're going to walk us through some tips for our finances in this holiday season.Carrie Johnson: Yeah, exactly. And there are some tips that we can all take away, like you said, whether you've had some issues with financial or some financial issues recently, or things are status quo and they're normal. Everybody can always look at some financial tips in their lives. So the first thing I really wanted to share this time of year is to set a holiday budget, which is going to be different than your typical household monthly budget. You know, how much can you realistically spend without causing future financial problems this holiday season? Will you spend the same amount that you typically do that you have in past years? Or are you gonna be spending more because you might not be traveling? Or are you going to be spending less just to save for the future a little bit and not put yourself in a financial strain? But either way, we really need to have a dollar amount set to make sure that we don't overspend.Susan: You know, Carrie, I think you just swore - I think budget should be like a four-letter word sometimes. So, you know, we're getting closer and closer to Christmas. And I'm going to just say, I have not made out a holiday budget. So where would I start?Carrie: First thing you need to do is make a list, I would say. Make a list. Check it twice. Write down absolutely all of your expenses that you typically have this time of year. Do you buy gifts, your food for meals for get-togethers, which you might not be having as much this year. Or baked goods, maybe your travel expenses, decorations - are you going to purchase more decorations. This year, more than ever, people are starting to decorate a little earlier to bring up their spirits. So maybe you are going to spend a little bit more on decorations and thinking of other things like postage and shipping. Susan: Oh boy.Carrie: So when you're listing your gifts, especially list every single person that you usually buy something for along with the amount that you plan on spending for that person. Include all people. This means small gifts, like your office gift exchange, you might not think of $15 as being a big deal, or your child's teacher's gifts. But all of these small expenses really add up fast.Susan : Yeah, you know Carrie, I'm always surprised when I think back to my Christmas and I... I look at all the big gifts, but I never think about all the stocking stuffers and little gifts that I hand out here and there, jeeze you're right they can really add up. But you know what Carrie, I love, love, love your ideas of lists and I do make a list of ideas for people. But here's where I run into a problem. And frankly, I'm not sure that you can help me with this problem because it's a discipline problem, but I'm going to hope that you have an idea. So here's what happens. I buy gifts for somebody on my list and then as it gets closer to them closer to Christmas or the holidays, I end up buying something more, and then just because I have this fear of being unfair, I buy... I feel like I have to buy for everybody else, to up the ante. So if I give five gifts to someone, I want to give five gifts to someone else, if I spend $25 on somebody. I want to spend $25 on them. So it becomes this vicious circle. So I guess I have to just stick to my list???Carrie: You know, it is difficult to stick to a budget and stick to a list sometimes, it takes commitment. You know, creating a budget is one thing. And I just do also want to want to stick this in there when you said you love lists, but budgeting, not so much. Think of a budget as a list, right? If you like to cross things off on a list. Think of your budget as a list and tracking is kind of like you're crossing things off. Just a little non holiday trick for you.Susan: I love that. That's empowering for me.Carrie: Yeah, there you go. You know, but creating that budget and tracking your spending is so important. It doesn't just have to fall under this holiday time but it's really similar to how you would do your monthly household budget. And just making that commitment. Right. You just have to say, ‘Okay, I'm done'. It is difficult. I'm not going to say it's not difficult, because I've done the same thing. I'm, I'll be completely honest with you. Or if you're in that situation where you see something, maybe you take that and replace something else that maybe you've already purchased that you could return. So you're not finding yourself in this vicious circle of spending.Susan: You know, I did also like the idea of writing it down right away. And here's another problem - that “buy with one click” is really dangerous for me. Because oftentimes I like, click away and then a box comes and then I'm like, oh yeah, now I remember ordering that so I'm telling you, every day is Christmas at the Milenders.Carrie: It is, online shopping can be extremely enticing to just click, click, click, and then you forget. Oh, that's right, I already ordered that person something. But again, you can always return things! If you've gotten yourself into a situation that you shouldn't have. It's okay to reevaluate what you've done. So you can stick to that budget because remember when you when you created that, that spending plan that that dollar amount. That was your maximum that you could spend if you go over. Where's that money coming from? So, be realistic this time of year. It is fun to give. We all love to be generous and give things to people, but we also have to be mindful and take care of ourselves this time of year too.Susan: That is so true. So you know the other area that I really think about is postage, because oftentimes, like I said, I buy online and then I can have it shipped directly to the, the person that I'm giving to, but I know that I just sent a very small like jewelry box size, gift and it was like $7. And then I thought, oh my gosh, I spent my budget for that gift, it was a birthday gift. I spent my budget for that birthday gift, but I never anticipated, adding that $7 to the gift cost.Carrie: Yep, so extra postage shipping this time of year, that needs to be budgeted in. If you're having things gift wrapped, so I know sometimes I will do that as well. I'll purchase something online and have it gift wrapped and shipped, even though the shipping is free, it might cost me $5 to have it wrapped. Which is not something I typically have budgeted for. The other thing, yeah, so making sure, like if you have Christmas cards you're mailing out. How much did those costs that postage can really add up. And then also, maybe you're doing things like a homemade gift. So you're...you're saving money there but you never budget in how much it's costing to send that homemade gift. Even though you're saving a little, you have to remember to budget what it's going to cost them to get it to that person. Because we might not be getting together this holiday season in our big groups like we typically have in the past. Looking at your budget, like I said at the beginning. What do you typically spend, but also, how's it going to be different this year? So that shipping and postage costs might be a little higher this year, than it typically has been in the past.Susan: Yeah, you know I typically send out a lot of Christmas cards, but I have to remember that I probably don't have to send to people that were on my wedding list 30 years ago, right. I mean, I could probably scale back and now you can email cards, as well. And sometimes it's just, if you think about a card as a gift, maybe? You know that might help me, as well. Yeah, you've got some great tips, now so we talked about gifts and we talked about making a budget for gifts and we talked about making a budget for postage and sticking to that list, which is really hard. But I also know traveling is going to be a little different this year. Right? And with that, we might be staying home. Eating and having fun in the kitchen. So what do you have for me on tips for food and grocery shopping.Carrie: Yeah, make sure you have your budget set for food. In my house, this is,no matter what time of year. This is my highest expense every month during every holiday season. We love eating in our house, you know, and with four teenagers, that is a quite a large expense every month. And during the holidays. So remember when you do go and buy your food, having that grocery list. And it may look different this year, if you're planning on staying home not traveling to Grandma and Grandpa's and getting ...getting fed. So, I will miss that. Or I may have done the cooking at Grandma and Grandpa's house, but I didn't have to buy the food right? It was all pre-purchased for me. I just had to send my list home. So you might have to increase that amount that you spend on food this time of year. You may be baking with the kids, a little bit more often so you might need a budget for that. But grocery stores typically are running sales this time of year on those... those ingredients. You know we just got the weekly flyers last, yesterday. Well, I don't get them - I go online and look at them every week, every Wednesday. for sales in Fargo. And, you know, this time of year, you find your traditional holiday meal ingredients, also baking supplies. And some of those things for baking, you might want to stock up on now on those ingredients that aren't going to go bad, just because you know we might start baking now and bake throughout. You know, when the kids are home from school for those few weeks, the end of December - beginning of January, just to have some activities to do together. So maybe stocking up on some of those things that are a little less expensive right now because it is the holiday season. So might be a good thing. Susan: So know that Carrie, I don't mean to interrupt, but that's a really good idea to stock up but I go back to that impulse shopping, because when I'm in the grocery store. I go in for one item and I leave with fifteen. And I just ordered online and I had it delivered and that really cut back on my impulse shopping, frankly.Carrie: YeahSusan: Just wanted to throw that in there.Carrie: I.. that's a great tip I've been doing that myself, because I love shopping for food. Again, we love to eat, and I'll see one thing and go, oh, I could make that. And then I have to go back throughout the whole store and buy 15 other ingredients to make that thing that look that sounded good to me so. Finding ways, if you know you're an impulse shopper, if finding ways to limit your trips to the store or limit the amount of time you spend browsing online shopping. Maybe deleting apps from your phone so it's not quite as easy to buy those, those things this time of year. You know, I have on my phone, I have a whole folder that says online shopping and there's probably 20 apps in there of different stores that I, I can just, you know, scroll while I'm watching TV and maybe just taking those apps off the phone will save you money and help curb your impulses.Susan: That is a good idea. I might have to take a look at that. So, now I've got my budget set, Carrie. And I have overspent on my budget. Suggestions?Carrie: It happens. This is one area that you know I talk to people and they're like, “what do I do now?” You know, you move on. You don't want to beat yourself up. Right. Sometimes we make mistakes with money and that's okay. You don't want to dwell on that and go ...You know, and bring yourself down. Acknowledge that...okay, I made a financial mistake. I need to learn from this and move on. But don't dwell on it. You know, if you can return things, do that. If not, again, move on. Don't, don't beat yourself up for, for not meeting your exact budget amount because you don't want to kind of have that dreary, sad feeling from buying. You know, buyer's remorse, it's a real thing. Do your best. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't. You know, if you if you've made a few mistakes, it's okay. You learn from them and you move forward.Susan: So we're going to start with the list and hopefully capture everybody that we're going to buy for right? Carrie: Yep.Susan: Yeah. Make a list and then we see oh gosh, my budget is probably a little bit more than I thought. Right? So, do I have your permission to like cross people off my list?Carrie: Absolutely. There's, there's nothing wrong with that, um, you have to again worry about yourself, as well. This time of year we want to be generous. A lot of you know maybe all year,during, you know, during the whole year. We want to be generous. And we do sometimes overdo it this time of year. And maybe if you're not crossing something off...someone off, maybe you're reducing the amount that you spend or the number of gifts that you give to somebody.Susan: I know you know that's a good idea because I, I feel obligated sometimes to purchase a gift for everybody that I've ever met. Or every teacher you know, my for we've got. I remember when my kids were little, we would give to the Sunday school teacher, the paras, the music teacher, the gym teacher, the principal, the school secretary... every coach. And for us adults, it might be your garbage collector, your mail person, your neighbor, your handyman, and, I don't even know, your second grade teacher. And frankly, I should be giving my UPS driver, who has quickly become my best friend during the season, a gift, but you know, I'm not sure that that's such a good idea. So I know that there will be something that comes up. Should I plan, a little extra money in my budget or will that just give me the license to spend more?Carrie: That will give you the license to spend more. Do your best to stick to your budget. But also remember holidays, it's more than just giving gifts. You know, it's more than how much we're spending on somebody. You know, this is a time to be resourceful and allow yourself not to buy a person a gift. Or if it's going to add more pressure to you, bake goods to give to everybody, you know, if you don't have the time, you don't have the resources this time this year - give yourself the okay to not to do some of these things. Breaking a holiday tradition like buying gifts can be really tough to swallow. Right? It is something we do every year. Especially if you have children there. I'll be honest, my kids expect presents every year. That's, that's really what they do. But if you need to make that tough choice for your financial future, so it's not in jeopardy. Just become a little more creative and have a conversation with your family and say this year is going to be different. Be open. Be honest. Don't scare your children into thinking that you know we're in a dire situation, but just say this year might look a little different than than years past.Susan: You know, can I say something here? That is so true, because we had a conversation with my family and I frankly thought that I was going to be opening up this can of worms. You know, changing gift giving, traditions and all, but I was really surprised, Carrie. That everyone was open to the idea of limiting gifts and frankly, I think they were relieved. I think everyone was really scared to speak up, because they were kind of scared of upsetting the status quo. So, this year with my four adult kids, four of whom are in college and broke. We decided to draw names and that's quite a change for us because we were typically, you know, everybody bought something for everybody else and then Santa came in the morning, so. We decided this year we're going to do the four gift rule, and I'm sure you've heard about that. So the four gift rule is  buying something they want, something they need, something to wear, and something to read. And we drew names. So we're really scaling back, but frankly, I thought everyone was relieved. Which surprised me.Carrie: Yeah, those are great ideas. You know, it leads me to my next tip for the holidays this year is yeah, that family conversation. Like you said people. basically seemed relieved. So if you're having, and maybe it's not because of financial difficulties, but if maybe everybody else is kind of on that same page going... “oh I was too afraid to bring it up”. So just having those open, honest conversations is so important when it comes to money. Making sure everybody's on the same page. Because if you're not, you're competing, right, you're competing for those same resources. So making sure everybody has, you know, you've talked about your, your financial goals for this holiday season and everybody's working toward those same goals, you're going to have a better outcome, too.Susan: Yeah, I thought it was kind of funny. I went to... my extended family draws names and then we have a theme for the year. So we spend like 20 to $25 and one year, we had a gift card exchange. And I thought that was so silly because I'm giving you $20 and then you're giving me back $20 and I don't know. It just seemed kind of silly to me. But this year, what we're doing is we're creating gifts around the 12 Days of Christmas. So sometimes we've done, like neck up or waist down or your favorite color. But we can get super creative and spend less money that way. So…Carrie:Yeah. Susan: Resourceful. Right?Carrie: Yeah, you know, and even if money is not an issue, you can still do other things to, for to change things. So this year in our household so again, I have four teenagers But I plan on taking them shopping, they're each getting $25 to actually spend on a gift for.. to donate. So not just teaching them about getting gifts this time of year, but also that there are people out there who are less fortunate, who may have lost a job, who may have had their hours cut. And providing them with that lesson that we need to have compassion during the holiday season and that we can help others too, and not just worry about what we're getting.Susan: And oh my gosh, I love that. I love that idea of giving them money to donate. What a great idea. So, I want to go back for a second, to online shopping, because so many people are going to be clicking this, this season. Do you have any tips for us?Carrie: Yeah, making sure you're staying safe while online shopping is going to be a big issue this year. First and foremost, make sure you're on a reputable site. If you're buying from, making sure you're buying from a secure website someone's looking at the URL and making sure there's the HTTPS, which means it's a secure site when you're checking out instead of just HTTP. That's going to help you out a little bit. Checking yourSusan: Wait, time out. Time out on that. You said HTTPS?Carrie: S. Yes. S as in SAM. Correct.Susan Milender: Well, I didn't know that. So if it's HTTP, it's a, it's not a legit site.Carrie: It is a legit site. It's not secure to enter your, like financial information. So if you ever are checking out from an online retailer, double check. Or if you're ever putting personal information in online somewhere, double check that there's the ‘s' there because that shows you that site is secure.Susan: Oh, that's really interesting. Thanks for that. Yeah definitely look. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.Carrie: Know that's perfect, I wanted to make sure you had that clarification. That's great. But also checking your bank and credit card statements closely. Or these days, you don't have to wait until your statements come out, you can check pretty much every day if you want. To make sure there's been no fraudulent charges to make sure you can catch anything that happens on there as quickly as possible so you can dispute that. And then if you do pay your balances on your credit card every month, one thing I would suggest is using a credit card this time of year. Because it doesn't give sellers direct access to the money in your bank account and credit cards have the zero liability for fraudulent purchases. So, it's just a little bit safer for you and protecting your money.Susan: Do you mean safer than a debit card? Is that what you mean?Carrie: Yes. Because if you're providing your debit card information, that's providing information to your entire bank account right. People could take money out of your account and it's a little more difficult to get money back, than it is to just dispute charge on your credit card.Susan: Hmm. You know, I know my son just disputed a charge. And just like that, they took care of it. The company was easy. And I, you know, the other thing I wanted to go back to was postage. So when we're shopping online, and we're thinking about sites that might offer free shipping, is that safe?Carrie: Yeah. Free shipping is a great perk you know, and and helps us save money. Now, during the holidays and all year right. We love free shipping. But you also need to think about the other angles with the free shipping. you know, for example, maybe you won't be able to see your family in person this year, and you want to ship something directly to them. But you have to spend a minimum sometimes to get the free shipping. So, I do see a lot of times people go, “oh, I spent this much to get free shipping”.Susan: I have done that! Carrie: Yeah. So is that free shipping really saving you any money? Or, you know, if you decide to shop for gifts in your hometown and, and buy from your small businesses to help your local economy and help your small businesses out in your community, they might not be able to offer free shipping and that might be okay. So really looking at the trade-off of this free shipping. You know, spending a few dollars on shipping could be an okay thing if you're getting a benefit out of it.Susan: When we've got so many fun North Dakota local businesses, that it's really fun to shop at those little stores or even online for, to support our local businesses. I just love that idea.Carrie: And I love….. I love sending North Dakota things home to South Dakota to see the reaction in my family.Susan Milender: You could be evil that way, couldn't you. I'm sure when they open the gift. They're like, Oh gosh! Do you get South Dakota gifts then back?Carrie: I get text messages.Susan: Well, Carrie, I just want to wrap this up by asking you if you have any more tips for me about holiday spending this year?Carrie: You know, with the holidays fast approaching, the earlier you can start the better. You know the National Retail Federation found that 42% of holiday shoppers have started earlier this year than they normally do. So planning ahead is, is key. You know, if you can spread those expenses over multiple paychecks it's going to make it a little bit easier on yourself, if you if you didn't put that money in savings at the beginning of the year. And then once your budget and your list are created, do your best to stick to it - it's really tempting to buy something just because it's on sale. I get it. Retailers and marketers are really smart, so they know how to get us to spend money. But those impulse purchases can really impact your family finances over the next several months and maybe even years, depending on how much you spendSusan: Yeah, you know, I am going to heed your warning. I'm going to really stick to my list because I know it's not only good for my budget, but frankly, it's also good for my stress levels. Right, sticking to my budget, and I, I am going to try to start shopping early because I've also heard that deliveries might get delayed. And here's, here's what I envision happening is my delivery might get delayed and then I panic and then I spend way more money because I didn't plan ahead. So, I think that I'm going to heed all your warrant, all your advice about sticking to my budget, making a list, not impulse shopping, and planning ahead. And, and then also communicating and being open to changes this holiday season. And frankly, Carrie, sometimes I just needed me to hear that I have permission to say no. You know, I have permission to say no to maybe those extra things in my budget or extra things in my, in my schedule that can really make me forget about the fundamental reason for this celebratory season. So it comes down to people matter and not things. So, Carrie, I want to really thank you for empowering me to look at the season a little differently. And I'm going to take my Grinch hat off and I'm going to cherish the opportunity to refocus this year on holiday traditions. So with that, I want to thank everyone for listening to Thriving on the Prairie and to subscribe to the podcast and access the full transcript, as well as resource links from this episode. visit www.ag or AG. ndsu.edu/thrivingontheprairie and you can find more resources for families and communities at this website www.ag.ndsu.edu/extension. This has been a production of NDSU Extension. Extending knowledge, changing lives.

Welcome to the Recruitment Hackers podcast. A show about innovations, technology and leaders in the recruitment industry. Brought to you by Talkpush the leading recruitment automation platform.Max: Hello, and welcome back to the recruitment hackers podcast. Today. We are honored to have on the show, Mrs. Susan Hanold PhD, who is also the VP and the ADP Strategic Advisory Services Group. Susan, welcome to the show. Susan: Thanks Max. Great to be here. Max:  Susan  was named top women in HR technology by Recruiting Daily, and works with ADP's clients to build out their recruiting strategies. So tell us a little bit about ADP and then we'll go into our usual round of questions about how this industry is changing. Susan, I will let you talk about ADP, you will probably do better than I can. We were talking before the show that ADP does a lot more than payroll, and through acquisitions has moved into the RPO world. And into the technology world. Can you give us a quick summary of your universe? Susan: Sure. So interesting to me about eight years ago, when I was first hired at ADP. I came in as a talent strategy expert. So it was like you, I thought, Oh payroll! It's only payroll, but it's not. It's a full HCM human capital management company. And it's been in business over 70 years. And you know, over the last eight years, our talent ecosystem has grown. You know, eight years ago we started our RPO business. We have talent management, talent activation, you know, you have to put different words on all the different types of talent products. So activation is kind of a new area. That's an engagement, and performance area,  talent management, and you've got talent acquisition.Max: You've got my attention with this talent activation. We'll come back to it later. Susan: Yeah. So, you know, to me what's exciting is that, it's a global organization, it's got 140 countries and, you know, of course we're known for payroll and that's very core to us and we have 58,000 employees. And for me, you know, like you Max, as we were talking before, my day job was traveling a lot, I lived on an airplane and what was most important to me was satisfying our clients and helping them build out their talent strategy. And so I was basically traveling around trying to be in person, getting to know them and their businesses. And so that has switched a bit here now. Max: Well, we have so many hours in the day now. I understand that you're investing some of this time that you got back from all that traveling around the world, into helping  your community and working with the University of Texas in Arlington.Susan: Yeah. So I felt one of the ways to give back is to share those experiences and what I'm learning right now in my day job and the real life experiences. And I just feel like they are really enjoying that. They love hearing, you know, balancing the book work if you will, with the real life application.Max: Yeah i could make a nice segway on the world of recruitment. Hearing more about the stories and about the book, hearing more about the candidate than about the resume, which is something I believe we must move away from in recruitment. Move away from the resume. Tell us. How, how did you end up in talent acquisition professor? Susan: Well, it just happened naturally. I mean, I didn't say, Oh I'm going to go into talent acquisition. I am just a sponge for learning. And at ADP, I was given the opportunity to really keep learning and building and learning more about what they offered from a talent product perspective, and ourselves, and our services. And I started off in talent management and then it just naturally evolved to talent acquisition. And with the model that we follow which is attracting, engaging, and retaining. So many times I'll have clients that'll say, well let's talk about our turnover. And everything comes back to let's look at the whole ecosystem. So let's start from the beginning and come all the way through the talent life cycle. And so I just started expanding my conversation and learning more. I'm so very thrilled to be talking about it today, Max:  I've been asked by a number of companies to look at retention and you know, for me, it's the ultimate success metric for the company. Are you a people-centered company? It should be measured by whether you can retain your people or not. And the unfortunate thing is you cannot really give that number, the retention number, you cannot let any one department own it. Because it really starts even at sourcing.  If you source a wide enough audience, a big enough talent pool, then  you'll be able to be a lot more picky and find people who have a better culture fit, which should certainly increase retention, logically. So, I think these arguments are a little hard for me  to carry on the sell side. To say that recruitment helps retention and sourcing helps retention. But I do believe that fundamentally and in principle.Susan: Well, it's interesting, how did you know of the email I was just looking at before our conversation, because I had just got a request from a client that wants to have a turnover workshop. And that seems to come up quite frequently. And you know, in my role, my goal is to help our clients. So I'm external focused and help them with a lot of advice and insights. So I'm not really necessarily executing on a product, but it's looking at the whole people process and technology and in my role in product agnostic. So when the clients are coming and asking for help, like hey I've got a pain point of turnover. It's like exactly what you said. It's really having to dig in and look at the bigger picture. And where is it going to, where's it really coming from? And I'd say about two or three years ago, our team got together and we were hearing a pattern of turnover retention coming up and we're like, well we just need to start at the basics. What is it? What data do you need? And then we actually put a diagnostic together and it sounds really fancy when you say, well, I put a diagnostic together, but I honestly started going to key stakeholders. And businesses and saying, what data are you gathering? What are you measuring? And start pulling this together. And I hate to use the word HCM, but it truly is. It was a full human capital management list of questions. And I said, hey, here's a great list of questions. That you as a recruiter, or you as an HR leader can take to your CEO and say, if you say no to any of these questions, then you don't have a comprehensive turnover retention strategy.And so I just kind of knew exactly what it said. I started adding more and more questions to it. And it's wider. It was outside of recruiting, it went to performance, it went to communications, it went to marketing, and they all have an impact. So, anyway, I ended up with a good tool out of it.Max:  Yeah, the diagnostic, you can repurpose it? Susan: I sure can. Max: I mean, with a PhD  you can turn any worksheet into a methodology. Right? There is a way to commercialize that for sure. And I want to go back to that word you used earlier, talent activation, is that a new fancy word for onboarding?Susan: Not really. Talent activation is really activating talent. So it's really engaging the talent, checking in, keeping their productivity up. It's really a connection to right now. To the resiliency that we're seeing with the pandemic. So as a leader, how are you able to react to adverse situations? So how you act, you activate yourself.And it's also how managers are working with team members, other individuals or subordinates. To really engage them and keep them aligned to their goals! So that's a whole nother piece of it, which it does. You know, there's acquisition, activation and management. You've got to love how we put all these words to things, these new names.Max: I'll stay with onboarding. I've got enough words in my vocabulary, but thanks for that. Let's go back in time a little bit. And, well actually, on the top of retention, and the fact that it's in your inbox right now makes me wonder. Are companies preparing for 2021 thinking? Well, we kept our staff in 2020 because everybody was holding onto their seats and holding on for their life. And we'll have a wave of, you know, we have to be ready for a wave of turnover insurance. In the coming months you know, do you feel that, going on in the market that there's a little bit of anticipation and fear in that direction? Or is that just in my head? Susan: No, I don't think it's in your head. I think it's a very real situation. I mean, I think that you have the companies that you've, you know, that are not sure when to bring staff back, so they don't want to have to furlough or lay off again. So you've had some of those companies that have had to go through those situations. And then I was just working with, you know, one of our newest RPO clients that can't hire fast enough! Because they just can't find it. They're actually, you know, doing some of the COVID testing, but in sense their sourcing is extremely high, yet being able to keep and retain, you know, back to your turnover and where your retention is, and I even mentioned onboarding.  So how do you get all of that lined up so quickly? You scale up so quickly and do not want to lose somebody and still need to keep that whole candidate experience high. Because somewhere it's going to fall through the cracks, so I think that piece is... But there, I definitely think that there is  a sense of some folks that are very worried, right? So you have people that are wanting to keep their job, but yet I'm seeing some people, you know, go ahead and say maybe business isn't where, I want it to be. And I'm okay to jump. I'm going to be a job hopper right now, but I still think there's some unpredictability to headcount needs, where some businesses are fluctuating and that can cause a little bit of a roller coaster.And, you know, I even saw it with our own organization where some departments were busy. So people, you know, employees took a temporary job-hop over to another department to leverage their skills. So it definitely is a little bit uncertain, but that cloud. That fearfulness. I still think that's still there.Max: Yeah. That's going to stay with us even post election. I think there's still a lot of uncertainty in the market. But, I mean the recovery in Q3 has been very strong in North America anyway. And I guess that ADP should have a strong 2021, on the RPO business and technology, of course. So, you've got your finger on the pulse of the economy.  Can you give us, our listeners, some insights on how the wind is blowing? Susan: Well, you know, we do a lot of labor economy, market calls and so forth. Of course we're known for the unemployment report, but we also have something called the, workplace vitality report, which you know, is a quarterly, real time data or site, If you want to call it that,  where you can quarterly know what's happening with compensation. What's happening with unemployment? Is it a job hopper market? What's the hourly rate? What's happening part-time or full-time? And so by that, I'm definitely up to date on what's happening with the market, the trends, you know, really month to month, I look at this and how I can slice the data in different ways.But I think that's only one piece. I think the other piece that I look at to kind of know what's going on in the market is, what am I hearing from our clients? And, what kind of work are they asking for? And one of the biggest things that I am seeing is just keep it simple. Like since a lot of people are trying to make it easier for the candidate, for their employees and not trying to disrupt or come up with a lot of new stuff right now, new projects.But in doing this. They're trying to look at cost containment, process optimization, and really trying to say, how can I make my recruiting team as efficient as I can? And still have that high impact candidate experience and get that quality candidate. And so a lot of times I honestly have been spending a lot of time, right now, in workshops going through processes, looking at the current state, looking at the future state and saying, what are some best practices and recommendations to make things better?Max: And you know, I mean balance of what do you keep in house and what do you outsource in town's acquisition. I think that there's always going to be pressure on both sides, on both ends of the spectrum. And you'll have some mild fluctuations that are driven by the economy.So in 2021, probably it'll be a little bit more outsourced than usual, simply because people are a little fearful of hiring in house. But there's never going to be a state of balance or a winner takes all kind of situation. There will  always be that tension, right? Between the two. Susan: Well a lot about it, I think, is how open-minded you are and how educated you are to know just what your options are? You know, If I was the CPO five years ago for the people of our chief HR office, I may create my HR team very differently than I would today. And knowing, you know, what are those outsourcing options? And many times it's like, just give us a chance, let us run a business case for you. Let me give you a couple of menu options and then figure out where in your culture it's going to work best.Sometimes you just need to get somebody who's got the open mind to say, I'm willing to change my structure or change the... Or it doesn't even have to be all or nothing. It can be a hybrid approach. One of the clients I'm working with now, they have a recruiting staff and they have some outsourced. To me, it's just, you know, don't stress yourself out, right? Like you can go at this at baby steps too, right?Max: Yeah. Yeah. And, in this model and, you know, thinking about this customer that you just mentioned, you're referring to us. Is there a division of tasks or what's an ideal division of tasks for a mid-sized customer view?I'm curious because I see RPO is coming in for executive level hiring volume, hiring for digital sourcing. And I suppose  the area which remains in-house then is most precious for the companies to retain. Is the onboarding experience where the closer you become to being an employee, the more, that experience needs to be in-house and managed internally, I suppose. And that would mean like the front of the funnel is perhaps easier to outsource, but maybe that's just a wrong thing to do.  It's not the business I'm in anyway. Susan: Well, and if you just look at the market right now with unemployment, you know, of course recruiting teams are getting more sophisticated, right? But employees we're finding or having reluctance to change jobs. And so some may be leading for 25 cents an hour or not so sure anymore that their jobs are gonna exist. So, you know, now when they're comparing their employment to maybe some security, that is causing a little bit of a challenge right now. So I feel like knowing your compensation... I get a lot of questions from folks that, you know, from accounts that are saying, I don't have really good compensation, pay structure. I don't have benchmarking data. Help me figure this out. And a lot of times we'll just say, well, either two things are happening. One, they're truly off on wages but they need to do the analysis piece. Or secondly, it's an easy thing to say, well, it's wages, right? It's compensation. And I really need to look at our benefits, or I need to really look and dig a root cause analysis. And so, you know, I find a lot of times where I'm helping them find, how do I get good real time data? That's, you know, is not survey data, right? From somebody else to know what your compensation should be. And then also helping them to dig deeper just to ask them so thoughtful questions. Because many times they're not even doing exit interviews. They're just hearing it by hearsay cause they can't keep up or they don't have a consistent process to get that feedback. So that's just another way of saying this. Another thing I'm hearing a little bit about. Max: And, when it comes to this compensation data, I suppose the ADP is in a very unique place, right? Where you have more data than anybody else. Susan: Right!Max: I mean, this data is private. I'm sure.  But if you don't put the name of their customer to it, you can analyze it, right? Susan: Right. So we have two things that have been coming out. We have compensation, benchmarking and then also pay equity. And you know, what we're able to do is take the 30 million employees and 90,000 organizations and take that pay data and aggregate it, make it anonymized and be able to have it filtered so we can get that data to be able to say, here's what the what your benchmarks are based on your industry, your size, and, you know, be able to run that. That's been very helpful. And the second piece that's trending now for me is, you know, we had pay equity. We created that several years ago, but now because of what's happened within the market is that the whole diversity equity inclusion topic. And now all of a sudden that's been a whole other elevated topic.Max:  And this year, I mean, it's gotten even more intention than usual. And where North America leaves, the rest of the world follows, for a lot of things related to systems. I've read and I could be wrong, but I've read that more than half of the world's enterprise software is purchased out of North America.And that includes most probably, recruiting software. And, and so, doctor I've heard a lot of companies complain about having to build systems, which are very US centric, which asks all of this data, needed to be asked to be in compliance with the US equal opportunity law. And that it's creating sort of artificial barriers for candidates outside of the US where some of these questions are not required. Have you come across these kinds of queries yourself? What is your recommendation for companies who want to be on one hand compliance in North America?Susan:  You have asked a very difficult question and I could write a book and then get the answers to you. And maybe I'll be a millionaire, but, I definitely think that. Being able to have technology that is simple to use that can be used across a lot of boundaries definitely key. And I also believe that you have to play to all the different compliance rules, you know, one of the things I know that we've been looking at is just, this is very new, you know, it's a very hot in discussion right now. It is, you know, diversity dashboards.And what information do you, and can you even share, right? And then how do you include unconscious bias, into this, you know, inclusion sentiment and what do you do with self identification? You know, all this is out of my expertise, but it's definitely playing into it. And the other piece is where do you have the human connection too? Where do you have the human in this whole candidate experience? And when do you start to leverage your artificial intelligence, your texting? You know, all that experience with your ATS platform. There's a lot happening there for sure!Max:  And these tools do help diversity because they expand the pool of people who can get in touch with you and, you know, just make it easier to be able to apply. And I think that ultimately serves the purpose of, expanding the town pool and creating opportunity for people you wouldn't normally consider, or that the hiring manager wouldn't consider.But well, my 2 cents is that there are more demands coming out of North America than any other market when it comes to capturing this kind of data and protecting against you know, let's say, setting up rules to protect the employer against liability, and it creates inefficiencies, outside of North America.And so it may be. You know, with the internet global markets being large enough now for any company, including ADP, maybe time to consider having, and implementations and different systems. One for global, one for North America to optimize the candidate experience. Susan:  You're helping me with the product roadmap here. But you know, I do a lot of speaking and research around the remote workforce and the work from anywhere, the WFA. And since you mentioned kind of across borders, I think that is also the bigger question. And you talked about increasing your candidate pool and your talent pipeline. Well, you know, that whole diversity piece is definitely a part of it.But also right now, I can't tell you the amount of conversations I've had with organizations. You're trying to do business cases right now to say, help me know from an ROI perspective if I have a certain part of my population that stays remote, or I phase them in longer, and I know you've probably heard this you're smart and I can see you now saying, I've heard this before! But just truly the trend of what it could do to getting your top talent. Because, I mean, I just saw a posting the other day and it said New York or something, and I'm like, well, do you have to be there in New York, but why do you put New York? If you don't really have to be in New York? Why is the job description saying New York? So either. You know, clearly communicate that you're shifting or the jobs descriptions just can't keep up with it. Max: It's almost like the Y2K bug, you know, where they're like, we can't update the machine. But most ATS's and job boards and CRM's. They don't know how to list a job as remote. I mean, I should know. We just built that in ourselves just this year, when we've been hiring remote workers for years. But it just doesn't compute. Susan: But I really hope, in a positive light that this truly would allow people who are interested in positions seriously, and for whatever reason don't want to move. Or they feel like now that, you know, you've tested the times, you're like, hey I've done this! Do I have the networks within the organization? Do I really need to be physically present in that city? And I hope that you at least have a conversation, right? A strategic conversation that somebody wouldn't eliminate me, but please still consider me. I hope that continues to broaden and happen and evolve.Max: Talking about the work from home and compensation to our areas of expertise for you Susan, I don't know if you saw the news, but  Reddit this week announced that they're going to eliminate cost of living payment compensation. And basically what this means is it doesn't matter if you live in, you know, San Francisco or in Idaho, you're going to get paid the same. You know, we're going to pay you based on performance only, because everybody's working from home anyway. Are you seeing other employers follow that model where we'll pay you the same regardless, and we're going to stop, you know, pegging salaries, on cost of living?Susan: I personally have not seen a big trend in that yet, but I definitely, I tell you Max, you must know my calendar. I've been trying to talk to our compensation director because I'm, you know, trying to get a little bit of a handle on... we had essential employees, you know, paying hazard pay and all these different types of pay differences that we've been going through.And I think compensation's going to get challenged. So I am all for rethinking our processes. Don't just assume everything's going to be the same, you know I love how people say, when we go back or, you know, whatever this new normal is, the new error that you reset and you rethink, you just don't go back. You actually can do things different. And I'm a proponent of that for sure.Max: I'd like to ask you some practical tips on how employers and recruiters can stand out in today's markets. We talked about the fact that people are holding still a little bit of this time but clearly the employment market has reheated and companies are hiring again.And so there's going to be more offers, coming on and a lot of choices. What do you think are the defining traits of a winning talent acquisition strategy as we're entering the end of 2020 coming into next year?  What are your recommendations for our audience?Susan: Well, you know, standing out and in a competitive market is always important and I always believe how people are treated during this time, they're going to remember. And if my manager cared for me, if our company did the right thing, they're going to remember. And I think that ties back to culture. And culture I can see is going to continue to be very important from a recruiting talent acquisition position.So I would really think about the bigger impact you can have with your recruiting strategy when it comes to culture. The second thing I would think about is, you know, there is a shift in evolving skill sets. So think about how you were investing in the development of your people. So normally we don't see those two necessarily two connected.But I think when it goes from organic growth, do I invest in you and provide you the training or source the talent? But a shift, definitely an evolving skill set, you know, ADP did some research and a few weeks ago they shared that one in five positions. The way they are today will not exist. So one in five, it's like 22%. So if jobs are shifting that often that they're not even gonna exist, keeping up with the skillsets is definitely going to be a challenge in how important development is. And the last one I'll leave you with is that the focus on branding, you know, around safety and employees first.So that is going to still be very critical in the upcoming months, to focus on building out that brand and the value proposition. That the recruiters all have the same message and just, what are you doing? Is it through videos? However, you're going to communicate that.I've seen a lot of good companies that have been doing a great job of saying, you know, this is what the environment looks like we're going to share it with you through video ahead of time. We're going to give you vignettes, whatever it is, but we're going to give you a snapshot of what it is for you. And that's how you're going to keep me either as a customer or even as an employee. So those would be the few tips I would have. What do you think Max? Max: Well, I think I've got some work to do. I certainly haven't communicated enough on safety and health, internally. I'm a bit of a Maverick myself and I have not been very precautious. I hope I didn't offend too many people. I certainly think that's, you know, personal health and safety is mostly a personal responsibility. But obviously the world is changing faster than I am. And I think your rights, employers would be well advised to follow your tips on that one.And of course to continue to invest in the employees, invest in your culture, all strong themes. So, well thank you very much, Dr. Hanold for spending a little bit of time with us. Susan: I have enjoyed it!Max:  Thank you! How do people get in touch with you? Susan:  Sure, they can connect with me on LinkedIn, Susan Hanold, or through Twitter app, Susan Hanold. And happy to be a resource to anybody if they've got any follow up questions, Max. Max: Fantastic. Well, I hope we reconnect, sometime next year under a new world! And, well, have fun today. I think today is election day. So I'll be watching the results at the American club here in Hong Kong, a few hours from now.Susan:  It's going to be a long night!Max: Entertaining for sure!Susan: Yes. Well, thank you so much, Max. Max: All right. Bye-bye.That was Dr. Susan Hanold, from ADP and their strategic advisory group. Lots to unpack in this interview. Lots of great tips, notably, how do we adjust our messaging in 2020 and next year around the employee culture? And how does it take care of safety and employees first? I hope you enjoyed it. And that you'll come back for more. Subscribe to the recruitment hackers podcast, and please share.

  In this episode, we have an interview with Susan Guthrie - Family Law Attorney, Mediator, and Host of Divorce & Beyond Podcast. Learn more about Susan here: https://divorceinabetterway.com/. Visit us at divorceandyourmoney.com for the #1 divorce resources in the USA and get personalized help. Shawn: In the beginning of the process, as you're doing your research, one of the most important things you can do is figure out what are your options and what are the best ways to proceed during the divorce process. And know that the traditional method of divorce litigation is not the only method that exists when it comes to the divorce process, and you may have options. There's mediation, there's collaborative divorce. But in this particular episode, I want to discuss mediation, and to do that, I'm bringing in a great guest. Shawn: Her name is Susan Guthrie. She is a family law attorney with over 30 years of experience. And she's going to give us an overview of some of the key things about mediation to think about. She'll describe the process really well in this episode. And the other thing that's interesting about mediation is that there's the possibility for online mediation. And so, there may be some advantages to that as well. So, I hope you enjoy the interview with Susan Guthrie and also be sure to check out her podcast. She has a really good podcast that's called Divorce and Beyond. So, without further ado, here's my interview with Susan. Shawn: Today on the show I have with me Susan Guthrie. Susan is a family law attorney, mediator, and a podcast host of her own. Susan, welcome to the show. Susan: Thank you, Shawn. I'm so pleased to be here. Thank you for having me. Shawn: Susan, let's start with ... actually, I just want to start with the podcast so other people can listen to it. It's great. I recently did an interview on it. Why don't you tell us about your podcast? Susan: Thank you. Yes, and by the way, your episode is doing very, very well. People are always interested in Divorce and Their Money, it's called, my podcast is, Divorce and Beyond. It's really focused on, I've been a divorce attorney and a mediator for 30 years, so I bring that insider knowledge to the divorce process, and bring experts on to help with that, such as yourself. But I also am very much focused on the beyond, because divorce is really a finite time in your life or I certainly hope that it is, and you have a future ahead. So, many of our episodes are focused on preparing for the beyond, preparing for your future. Shawn: Great, and I encourage everyone to listen to it. There's lots of great episodes on there and you bring a great collection of interview guests on there as well. That's really interesting. Susan: Oh, thank you. Shawn: So, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background. I know you said you practiced for 30 years, but why don't you give us your credentials so to speak? So, we all understand who we're listening to. Susan: I have practiced as a family law attorney and still do to some degree for 30 years. My original State of practice was Connecticut, and I was located there in Fairfield County for 25 years or so, with a pretty traditional law practice. Then, branched out on my own and started moving around the country. I moved to California first, so I'm also licensed to practice law there. But I also segued my practice over to mediation, and in fact, that's all from a divorce perspective that I do in the process of helping couples negotiate and settle their divorce issues. I now live in Chicago. Susan: My practice is now entirely online, and I help people both through online divorce mediation services as well as legal coaching services around the world because I can do it online. I feel very lucky that I have been a divorce attorney and operating at a fairly high level. I dealt with a lot of high conflict and high net worth cases during my litigation practice. So, as you mentioned, I have access to a large number of really excellent experts because I've worked with them over the years in my practice, and I love bringing that wealth of knowledge and really that insider side of things to my listeners. Shawn: Yeah, I think that's great. You worked with a lot of high conflict people and now you do a lot of mediation work. Why did you make that shift? Susan: Yeah. So, it was sort of two fold. But really what it boiled down to, and for anyone who's seen the movie that's out right now, Marriage Story, you will understand I think what I'm talking about. But I got involved in divorce litigation when I first got out of law school, because frankly 30 years ago, that's really all that was out there. The litigation process is very adversarial. It is set up on a party A versus party B platform like any other lawsuit. Unfortunately, when you're talking about restructuring families, that is not a very good model for success. Susan: Unfortunately, that process actually drives people further apart, and then, when they find themselves post-divorce needing to co-parent or communicate, the animosity and the adversity that was brought up during the divorce and exacerbated during the litigation process really only makes it worse. It sets up an ongoing conflict cycle. So, mediation is an opportunity for parties to sit down, couples to sit down, and work together in a more cooperative fashion to communicate and restructure their family in a way that works best for all of them. Susan: It's not based on that win lose model, and so now having worked in both formats, the reason I only do mediation at this point is because the results for clients are so much better. Shawn: Let's start by defining what is mediation versus litigation. Can you just give us an overview of what that means, what that process looks like, how it differs? Susan: Sure, and actually that's a great place to start because there is a great deal of misunderstanding at times for people when it comes to mediation. I always hear it called the kinder, gentler way to divorce, or the kumbaya method of divorce. I will tell you, divorce mediation, like any process that you would go through to negotiate or resolve the issues of a divorce, it takes effort. It has its moments where it's not an easy process, but divorce mediation is based upon a principle of the two parties sitting down with a neutral professional, that could be an attorney like myself. It could be a financial professional. Susan: I know a lot of professionals who are financial advisors, who also are mediators, or therapists, or other professionals, but they sit down with a trained professional who's there to help them identify the issues that they need to resolve in the divorce, to give them an understanding of the law, and context, and nuance around those issues. Then, really importantly, to support both of them in having the difficult conversations that need to be had on how those issues are going to be resolved, with an eye to identifying what works best for all of them. Again, we're always in mediation looking for the third solution. Susan: We're not looking for the win for one side and a loss for the other. We're looking for that third solution that allows everyone to get as much of what they want on a needs base or interest based perspective, so that everyone walks away with a decision and with agreements that incorporate as much as possible what they've chosen that they can and cannot live with. Shawn: Let's give a concrete example of that, and I'm just thinking of, I want to just use a very simple case. Let's just say we have a house, a couple of retirement accounts, a couple of cars. How would I know when to use mediation and what would that look like for me versus going the traditional route and what would that mediation process look like start to finish? Susan: The two processes, they look similar because any method that you're going to use to resolve your divorce is going to sort of go through the same stages. You're going to have the quantifying or the pulling together of information stage. In litigation, we call that discovery. In mediation, we call it information gathering phase, but then you're going to discuss the issues. Then, you're going to come to agreement on the issues in 95% of the cases. So, the difference with mediation is, in litigation everything is done on a compulsory manner and fashion. Motions are filed, requests for orders are made, requests for production are made. Susan: Everything has time limits, and rules, and things are done because you are under court orders to do them. The difference is, in mediation, everything is done by agreement, including the fact that the parties are in mediation at all. Mediation is 100% voluntary as opposed to litigation, which people can be dragged kicking and screaming into, or if they ignore it, it's going to happen without them. So, the mediation process itself, just as a litigation case would start, does start with the information gathering. But it's not done in that fashion where you exchange compulsory requests for information. Susan: We sit down with your mediator, with the two clients, and compile all of the necessary information by agreement that we're going to do that as a part of the transparency of the process. That has a lot of different effects. The biggest one being it takes much less time to pull together all the information because we are talking about what everyone needs to see, wants to see, and agreeing to pull it together. It's also much less expensive because the parties are not utilizing legal counsel, filing of motions, all of which that they pay their attorneys for. Susan: It's usually much more successful, because nobody will drag their feet usually in the same fashion because, again, they've agreed that they're coming to the table to work through the process. So, in many ways, I've seen litigation cases where we have literally spent years, you mentioned a simple case where there's a house and some accounts, et cetera, that could take a relatively short period of time with that type of state to value things, because you have either written statements or you can get an appraisal. But when you get into some more complicated cases, or where there's a family owned business, or a cash business, or something of that nature, I've had cases drag out forever in the discovery process because it's so hard to get the information exchange, and that really just doesn't happen in the mediation setting. Shawn: You covered a lot of things that I have some kind of followup questions on. One of them that comes up, I hear every week or so is, oftentimes one party may not be as forthcoming as they should be during mediation. How does one handle that? Susan: So, that happens. Definitely it happens in litigation as well. So, the first thing to remember is, because mediation is by agreement, both of the parties have a reason or reasons why they have agreed to come to the negotiation table in mediation. Mediation tends to move much more quickly than litigation, so maybe time is an issue for them. It's usually infinitely less expensive. Maybe money is an issue for them. Maybe they feel it's a better forum for working through the issues. Whatever their motivations are, that brought them to the table, are the motivations that will also compel people to be forthcoming with the information that is required. Susan: Because what happens is if people do not come forth with requested information, the mediation process comes to a halt. Because if you are sitting at a table and one party does not feel they have the information that they need in order to make the decisions or the agreements that need to be made, the process can't move forward. You are putting people in the position, by making that choice not to be forthcoming, you're putting the other side in the position of having to take you into litigation. Susan: Having to compel your discovery as we were talking about earlier with the motions, and the depositions, and all of that. So, usually, it takes the mediator reminding the parties why they're there, that this is a voluntary process. They agreed to be involved in it, and failure to comply with reasonable requests for information are just by necessity going to bring the process to a conclusion. Shawn: I think that makes sense. I want to ask some technical questions about mediation, or just some basic questions is, you're a mediator and you're also an attorney, do the parties also have their own attorneys? How does that work? Who's actually in these mediation sessions? Susan: The majority of my mediation sessions are just the two people who are going through the process. That is not to say that they don't have outside consulting professionals, and I am very much a believer in the team approach to divorce. I think that everyone usually will need some sort of support as they go through the mediation or divorce process, whatever they're going through. That can include a consulting attorney, because as you point out, I am an attorney, but when I am operating as a mediator, I am not representing either of the parties. Susan: That would be an ethical breach. You can't, as an attorney, represent both sides of an equation. There's a conflict of interest there. So, your mediator, even if they're an attorney, is there as a neutral professional to support both parties. But often, people will need some outside legal advice, and it can be very, very helpful to the mediation process for them to have a good professional that they can go to. Other professionals are people like you CDFAs. I highly recommend using a certified divorce financial analyst, or a financial support team, especially in those cases. Susan: You mentioned that there are often one side of an equation in a divorce where they're not forthcoming with information. There's another paradigm that comes up all the time where we have one party who's pretty financially savvy and the other one who is not, and so, they feel very disempowered in making decisions. So, getting them some support by getting them a financial advisor or getting them a financial planner analyst, can be very helpful to the mediation process because it helps to support them and educate them as they go through. Another person that's often brought in is a therapist. Susan: If we have parenting issues, and maybe we have an issue with special needs for a child or developmental issues around the child's upbringing. So, I very much believe in the team approach to divorce, the divorce process as a whole, and certainly in mediation. Shawn: If I'm thinking about the mediation process, sometimes people think, is it just one meeting in an afternoon, is it multiple meetings? How does that work? Susan: Generally, it's a series of meetings. My mediations tend to be scheduled for two hours at a time, and that is because in two hours we usually can make some headway, start talking about real issues, and making proposals, and making agreements. But beyond two hours, it's an emotional context, right? You're talking about your kids, you're talking about your money, you're talking about separating all those things. So, the emotional content is very fatiguing. You are either in the same room, or if you are with me mediating, you're in the same Zoom meeting, and two hours tends to be where people sort of burn out. Susan: And what I don't want is my clients making decisions out of fatigue, or just saying because they're just so tired and they want to move on saying, "Fine, I'll do that." Because what ends up happening is they then leave the mediation, that session, come back to the next one having thought about it and they will backtrack. And that's harmful to the process only because now we have trust issues, "Well, you said you would do it. I relied upon that and now you're backtracking." So, it's better to do it in bite sized chunks that you can process, take your time, and move through it. Susan: Usually, it depends on the couple. It's usually a few three, two-hour sessions. It can be certainly more than that. I've had cases move faster. There are other types of mediations, so another type of mediation for family cases that people will be acquainted with is a case that's been in the litigation process all along. They're usually close to the courtroom door for trial, and they will, as what I call last ditch effort, resort, to sitting with a mediator for sometimes a full day session to try and resolve those last outstanding issues. Susan: In those cases, usually the attorneys who have been representing the clients all along are involved, and those usually tend to be one marathon type, long day type session. But for people who start in mediation, their divorce process from the start is in mediation, usually two, maybe three-hour sessions and a few of those, but infinitely faster. I will tell you, most of my divorce mediations are completed before the sixth month. California has a six-month waiting period. Connecticut has a 90-day waiting period. Susan: Those are my States of licensure, and we're definitely usually done by the sixth month mark in California, three months ... It just depends on the complications of the issues. Shawn: That's good to know, and if I'm sitting at home listening to this or wherever I may be listening to this, how do I know whether I can go down the mediation route? What kind of things should I be thinking about to say and maybe even conversations I might need to have with my spouse in terms of, "This is an approach that may work for us." Susan: That's another great question, because that's one of my key things I want people to know, that your best approach to divorce is to try mediation in most cases from the beginning. Because if it doesn't work, you always have litigation to fall back on. That will always be there for you. But knowing that it's a possibility at the beginning and giving it a try for all of the reasons of all of the benefits that it has, is something that I love for people to know from the very beginning. So, some of the things to be thinking about are, do you have the ability to self advocate? Susan: And if you don't feel that you do, can you find support to help you with that? There are a lot of amazing divorce coaches, legal coaches like myself. I work with a number of people going through mediation, helping them to strategize what they're looking for. I was just listening to one of your podcast episodes and you mentioned the question, what do you want? That's a huge question when you go into a mediation. You don't go into any process of divorce without knowing where you want to go, or the process is going to happen to you rather than you being an active participant in it. Susan: But that's really the question, is do you have the wherewithal to sit down and do the work that needs to be done with the help of your mediator? And to bring your spouse to the table, people ask me all the time, "Well, I'd love to do mediation. It's less expensive, it's less stressful, it's less time consuming, it's less adversarial. All of those things, it's better. It helps us create communication pathways for our kids so that we can co-parent in the future." All of those are benefits and those are actually the things that help you to talk to your spouse about trying mediation. Susan: Because the thing I always tell people is, the one thing that we do know after having been married to someone is usually what their interests are. And usually, there's one or more benefit of mediation that will appeal to them. Often, it's the cost savings. You and I both know the average divorce in the United States is in the 20s of thousands of dollars per person these days to litigate. Many people, even if they have that kind of money laying around, don't want to spend that kind of money on getting divorce. By the way, it can go much, much higher than that. Mediation is much less expensive. Susan: It tends to be much less time consuming, less stressful. You have much more control over the process. So, knowing whatever you know about your spouse and what would appeal to them, that is usually the best way to approach them and ask them to consider the process. Shawn: That make sense, and can someone come to you for select issues in a divorce? So, let's just say there's 10 things to figure out and they agree upon seven of them, but there's three issues that they still haven't quite resolved yet. Would mediation work for that? Susan: Oh, absolutely. In fact, I often work with couples who maybe have worked out the financial side, but they need help with the parenting plan or vice versa. They know what they want to do parenting wise, but there are certain issues on the side of the finances that they just can't quite resolve. So, you can bring limited issues to mediation. Any sort of any issue can be mediated. Many people who have gone through divorce but then after the divorce there's been a change of circumstances. Someone loses their job, someone gets a big raise, something with the kids comes up and you need to change your parenting plan because children aren't static. Susan: I often mediate that post-dissolution type matter as well. The only thing I would caution, and I just don't want people, because attorneys and mediators are accused often of ramping up, making problems in a divorce that didn't need to be there. What happens sometimes, when a couple comes to a mediator or an attorney to work out issues and they think they've resolved a bunch of them, but they have a couple that still need to be resolved. The thing with a divorce settlement is it's a puzzle. It's not separate blocks of issues. Susan: Everything works together, right? It's a family. So, the money, and the kids, and the house, and all of those things work together. So, sometimes the outstanding issues will have an impact on those issues that they feel they have resolved. So, some of those issues may need to be reworked or looked at again if they don't fit into the overall puzzle context. But, again, that's where mediation is great because you can sit down and talk about, in the broad picture, why maybe perhaps something that they thought they wanted to do isn't going to work in light of another aspect of their settlement that they also would like to accomplish. Shawn: Yeah, that's a good point, is that sometimes it's very hard to isolate particular issues in a divorce, because if you pull on one thing or adjust one thing, it can affect every other item. Susan: Exactly. Shawn: It may work in certain cases, but you have to be open to shifting or changing other parts of the big picture when you do that. Susan: Absolutely. I always tell my clients in mediation, I work off a written agenda. I find people like the visual of an agenda that outlines all of their issues, and then I take notes on it for them as we're going along. I always tell them, although an agenda is a linear thing and item one, item two, item three, and even if we're going to move through it in that order, it doesn't mean that we have to resolve issue one in order to move on to issue two. Often, it's, let's discuss issue one, come up with some possibilities, and then table issue one and work on the next issues because in the end, all of them need to work together. Susan: As an example, someone often wants to keep the marital residence, and both sides may be open to that and may have reasons why they want that to happen. But until you get into the financial side, with support and asset distribution and debt distribution, you may not know if that person can actually afford to maintain the property. So, that's a very common question that will come up, where we have to sort of resolve the support issues and the financial issues in order to know if what they want to do with the house is actually going to work. Shawn: That's great. One last question, which is, at least as it pertains to the mediation, is you do online mediation work. I know you've done in person, of course, work as well. How do you find the difference between just the setting, be it a video call versus everyone's huddled in a conference room kind of atmosphere? Can you just kind of give us your pros, cons, thoughts about that? Susan: Yeah. It's interesting because I do now have an entirely online practice, and I have to say, especially for divorce mediation, I've actually found that the parties having the ability to have a little bit of space, because they do not need to be in the same physical location in order to mediate online, that's actually been a benefit for most of my clients. That they feel more able to emotionally deal with the conversations that need to be had as opposed to sitting just a few feet away from each other in the same room. Susan: I've had many people, when I had a brick and mortar practice, who would come and I would meet with a couple for a consult to just decide if they wanted to mediate. And in the end, it would come down to one of them saying, "I loved all the benefits, but I just emotionally don't feel like I can sit in the same room with my spouse and do this at this moment in time." Because as we know, divorce, yes it is a financial transaction, we're talking about money, et cetera. But in reality, it is an emotional transaction as well. Susan: And so, the video context gives people a little more space, but still you have the ability to see the other person because 85% of our communication is visual, and most of that is our facial expressions and voice. What we say and how we say it, our voice inflections. So, much of that is still readily available in the online context. So, for me, in my experiences, it's actually been a benefit to the mediation process, and most clients are thrilled to be online. They don't have to sit in traffic. They don't have to get a babysitter. They don't have to leave work early. Susan: I know you work online quite a bit and so you know some of those benefits. It has translated very well to the mediation practice. In fact, I train other mediators in how to conduct their mediations online, because this is such a quickly growing aspect of the mediation practice. My colleagues are fascinated by it. Shawn: Yeah, and I think that's one of the hardest things is when you are getting divorced, having to be three feet away from the person you're getting divorced from, staring right at them the whole time. It can make the emotional side of things amplify them quite a bit, just being in the same room. They're funny in retrospect even from the client's perspective, but a lot of times where someone yells, stomps out, runs out of the room, just can't stand being in person with that person they're getting divorced from. Shawn: It's divorce and it's not a pleasant process to begin with. This isn't a civil suit business dispute. So, I think there are a lot of advantages to the online perspective for people who might not have considered it as well, just from that. Susan: Yeah, the ability to, in any way that we can, keep the emotional content a little at a lower level is beneficial to the process. Because the minute people start making decisions from that emotional place, from anger, from fear, from hurt, whatever, divorce unfortunately doesn't embody usually a lot of positive emotions. It's usually a lot of negative emotional content, and the higher that level, the harder it is for people to make rational reason decisions. As you know, these are decisions that are going to live with you, and your family, and your children for years to come. Susan: So, you want to make them from the best emotional place possible, and I'm not saying that it's always easy. But another thing that I do is I incorporate mindfulness techniques into my mediation practice and encourage my clients to have a mindfulness practice if they're open to that, only because it does help. When the emotions start to rise up, to be able to take that step back and find some space. It's really important to be able to think clearly, and that's another reason, going back to where I said the sessions are usually only about two hours long. Susan: I want people making decisions in a space where they feel that those decisions were good ones, or at least made from a reasonable place and that they can live with them. Shawn: That's excellent and thank you for coming on and explaining the basics and the essential parts of mediation. It's not a subject that I talk about too often on my podcast. Why don't you give us the best way to contact you and to learn more? Hopefully, have people potentially work with you in the future if mediation or other services are right for them. Susan: Absolutely. Pretty much everything about me can be found on my website, which is divorceinabetterway.com. My email is susan@divorceinabetterway.com. I encourage anyone who's going through divorce to take a look at the website. I have a lot of curated resources, most of them free, or special discounts that guests on my podcast have offered. I have your book going up on my website shortly, so that people can find it who have listened to the podcast, or go there. But I like to bring as much information to people because that is so empowering in the divorce process. Susan: Get your education, get your information. So, divorceinabetterway.com, and then also the podcast has its own website which can be found through Divorce in a Better Way, or at divorceandbeyondpod.com. Shawn: And outside of mediation you were telling me you do a few other services. Just so people can know, can you describe those? Susan: Yeah, so one of my biggest areas of practice at the moment is legal coaching, which is a little bit different than divorce coaching, because what I'm doing is getting involved in cases. Usually, they're either high conflict cases, where someone is dealing with a high conflict ex that can be a narcissist, a borderline personality disordered person, or just someone who is very difficult to deal with, or high net worth cases. I'm helping the client to learn to manage those relationships, manage the communication so that they can have as much control over their lives as possible. Susan: I help with strategizing, with negotiation strategies. I've been a divorce attorney for 30 years. I negotiate every day of my life. I have to stop myself from doing it in the grocery line because it's so second nature for me. But your average person, unless they have negotiation in their business life, that's not a normal, that's not something that many people are comfortable with. So, I work with just a lot of clients on how to identify what they want and then how to strategize and negotiate to get that in the divorce process. I work with people all around the world in that context. I have clients across this country, Australia, Europe, Canada, all over. Shawn: Well, Susan, thank you very much for coming on the show. I really enjoyed the conversation and I hope the listeners will, too. Susan: Well, and thank you so much for having me, and thank you for coming on my show. Again, I loved that episode and so do my listeners. So, thank you. Shawn: Now, before you go, I want to make sure you get some really important information. I'm going to tell you about a few things that maybe of interest to you. First as a favor, is if you could leave a review, if you're on the iTunes store, leave a review on iTunes, or if you search Divorce and Your Money on a website called Trustpilot or on Google, you can leave a review there. It's quick, it's anonymous. It only takes a few seconds and I really, really appreciate your feedback. I have lots of reviews on iTunes and on Trustpilot, and I appreciate hearing your stories. Shawn: Also, on divorceandyourmoney.com, you can get lots of great information. Of course, you can book a 30-minute strategy session directly with me. There's two types of strategy calls you can book, just a normal strategy session, where we discuss the questions that are most pressing to you regardless of where you are in the divorce process, be at the beginning, towards the end, or in the middle. It doesn't really matter. There's lots of great information we can cover during that strategy call. Also, we have a document review call. Shawn: It's been one of the biggest things that we've done over the past year, which is you can send me your documents, be it your financial affidavit, a settlement agreement, or other documents that you would like for me to review. Then, I review those in advance of the call and then we get to discuss them in-depth as part of a strategy session and get specific answers to some of the specific documents and things that you are considering. Also, for those who need ongoing support, we do have a few options for ongoing support, but regardless, it all starts with a coaching call that you can book at divorceandyourmoney.com. Shawn: Don't forget to also get a copy of my new book. It's called Divorce and Your Money: How to Avoid Costly Divorce Mistakes. It's available on my website, or also on Amazon. You just look me up and make sure you get the new edition. It is filled with excellent information regarding the divorce process, and I know that you will find it helpful. Once you've read the book, be sure to leave a review. That really helps me. I appreciate your feedback and it also helps other people as they try and find this information. And finally, last but not least by any means is on the store at divorceandyourmoney.com, if you click on the store button, you can get access to the full archive of podcast episodes. Shawn: There's over 200 episodes, and what's great about the store link is that the episodes are organized in neat buckets, and they're organized by topic. So, it's very easy to follow along with the information, and it is easy to pick out the key topics that matter most to you. You can get all of those podcast episodes in the store. Thank you so much for listening. I'm your host, Shawn Leamon, MBA and Certified Divorce Financial Analyst. Take care.    

Here's part 2 of ‘Level Up Your Podcast'. A brand new episode of The 4 am Report, for your Boxing Day listening pleasure. So grab a mug of eggnog, and get some very actionable advice on: Upping podcast engagement The guest relationship Establishing ROI So, if you're looking to make some improvements on a podcast you're already doing, OR looking to start one in 2020, you'll want to listen up. Here's an excerpt from the transcript: *** 00:21 Will: Hello 4-AM'rs. It's Susan and Will here with part two of our two part series on how to level up your podcast as we get ready for 2020 and we're doing all that planning stuff you do in December. We're sharing our podcasting process with all of you. This is part of our month long deep dive into 2020 planning. We're sharing what has worked for us would have been some of our biggest successes this past year and we're hoping to inspire you a little bit for us to come in 2020 so we're not only just producing our podcasts, but we've started producing podcasts for clients as well and that's been really fun and it's now part of our business offering to small businesses. This week we're going to talk about getting the engagement and growing your listener-ship when it comes to your podcast. We'll also talk about guest relations and of course how to measure ROI for your podcast. If you missed last week's episode where we talked to the creation and production side, go back and listen. But this week it's all about engagement, the guest relations and ROI. So if you're already doing a podcast or you want to start doing a podcast, this is all great information. So listen up and level up. 01:26 Susan: So let's get right into this and talk engagement. Here's what we do once we have an episode that's been edited and it's ready to go out for distribution, we're pretty true to our theme and we lean all the way into it and our episode goes out at 4:00 AM on Thursdays. And along the way this has really become one of those like hard deadlines almost journalistic. So in order to be able to release the episodes at that time, meaning in order to put it out on social and distributed, we uploaded a few hours earlier. So it goes onto the actual platform where the episode lives, which in our cases, Libsyn. I think we mentioned that on the last episode. It goes there, it's uploaded there, and from there we put it on our website and then it also obviously reflects in other places like Apple podcasts and Spotify and many others. 02:16 Susan: So that's kind of what we do. And then we take that page from our actual website. We have a podcast page on our website, which I think is important because you want to bring people back to your turf, whenever possible. Of course people listen to episodes elsewhere, but there's no harm posting it on your website. So we do that. We post that on all channels and then we use email to promote some of it as well. Yes, email obviously still works. We definitely believe that. So we use email to launch seasons and sometimes we send out recaps and some analytics to people who are on our lists. Now we don't bombard people with every single episode because many of these people are on our list because they are signed up for other properties and a podcast is not, they signed up to receive it. I mean it's CASTLE rules. 03:01 Susan: You want to make sure that you're staying on the right side of who you are legally allowed to email. And for what when each episode goes out, we do offer people the option to sign up for the list if they do want to receive episodes. And lastly, how do we put the post together to post on social? We don't just post episodes once and done, we use our unplug and play calendar, which is essentially trying to post things in different formats and we'll get to that in a minute and giving each piece of content like full exposure. So that's coming up in a second. But if you do want that calendar for free, you can go and get it in the resources section of our website, cp.digital. So the other thing that we find is also very important in getting people to notice each episode is the actual creative or the artwork that accompanies each episode. 03:49 Susan: So we switch this up for each episode. We have a guest on every episode except for the few episodes where we're talking through some learnings or specific comments. But usually there's a guest and we put the picture of the guests into the actual artwork that goes out. And we also use images that we change up. We have a batch of images that we shoot for each season and we reflect the theme. So right now, for example, we're going slightly deeper into the whole doc thing and talking about how surreal the online space has become in some ways and leaning into a black middle like theming. And so some of that is reflected in our images. We also tend to use a whole lot of humour because humour is a big brand value for us. And some of the images that we put out with the podcast, which essentially stops the scroll, is images of us being funny. 04:43 Will: I totally believe our content and what we talk about on our podcast is great. The images, the artwork, the playfulness of it all, that's what kind of gets the attention. That's what get people to open the email or click through. So don't underestimate the value of artwork reflecting your theme being interesting, disrupting kind of the same old boring stuff people see on LinkedIn. Throwing a few fun pictures and that's really worked for us. Susan had alluded to this earlier when we were talking about the unplug and play calendar and putting content out in different formats. So maybe I'll let you, Susan explain how we use something called the anchor theory to really distribute in a very, almost our own scientific way our content. 05:24 Susan: So we call it the anchor theory, but obviously most content practitioners will tell you that they have some variation on it. It's been called atomization has been called spinning, but essentially it's the idea that you have one core or anchor piece of content, which to keep with the theme here. Let's assume that is an episode of your podcast. So once you've got a podcast episode recorded, you've put a certain amount of research time, effort into the creation of it, and just putting it out once and being done is not nearly enough for that. So this is where you want to have support assets. We talked about the images obviously, but how are you using those images? You want to use them on social, you want to write up a batch of posts that you're putting out with it. Obviously that's one way to do it. 06:06 Susan:  You also want to be thinking about the fact that there's a transcript that you can get out of the actual episodes, use the transcript to write up a blog post, maybe a series of blog posts if it's a longer episode. We've had several cases of in depth episodes which have been used as lead magnets for clients and then they use that to subsequently collect emails from those who are interested in going into their list. So there's a whole lot that you can be doing. This is just scratching the surface, but don't dismiss the value of your key pieces of content. Think about it as if you have it in one format, like the audio format, like a podcast, and maybe think about a small video, a snippet of it, some visual assets as well as written assets, or put it into all of the other formats. And you should have a nice round set of assets to promote with. 06:53 Will: And something else to remember. Don't just put the podcast episode out, promoted that week and then forget about it. We love to kind of bring things back. So at the end of each season, at the end of each 10 episode season, we do an email recap and we do social media recaps of some of our favorites and we'll, we'll bring them back. Sometimes we group some of the podcasts together and create little hubs. So when we created a little toolkit on content creation, we pulled three podcast episodes related to content creation and they went into this little toolkit as the podcasting part of this toolkit, which also had a blog and tips and an info graphic and that sort of thing. So think of how you can re-purpose and bring back these wonderful pieces of content that you've created  07:36 Susan: and SEO loves that. When you create these little hubs of content on specific topics, it does tend to help towards helping you rank higher in those areas. So think about grouping it and reusing. 07:48 Will: Okay, so now let's move on to the guests. We do have guests almost every week on our podcast. Last week we talked about the automation we use to invite the guest and bring them in and do the precall. So we talked all the way up to the recording. So after you've recorded with your guest, it's don't just, okay, bye. Thanks. Don't just do that. There's a lot of opportunity here. We send our guests and other automated email following the recording when the podcast goes live, thanking them. We give them a little digital coffee card to go enjoy a coffee on us and we also give them a link to the post and some copy to write so they can share it in their networks. Also this guest could lead to future collaborations, potentially even business collaboration, considered this guest and having them on your podcast at the beginning of a new, a new connection, a new relationship that you want to continue to foster and for sure for us, we've had guests post the podcast on their network and then we've heard from one of their connections that they wanted to get in touch with us to talk about business. 08:45 Will: So it really does pay off and we'll talk more about that in the ROI section. Do you have anything to add on that guest part, Susan? 08:51 Susan: I think often we get more guests out of the guests that come, like they'll introduce us onto someone else who's like, Ooh, I can think of someone else who's in this field who might want to talk about it. And I think the fact that we have that hook with the 4:00 AM report and "what keeps you up at night", it offers a lot of, I guess amusement value to people as well. So we do get a lot of conversations started this way. And that's kind of, that'll lead us into the ROI section of this in a minute. We should also mention that if you've got someone new in your world, make sure to ask them if they would like to go on your list and don't be afraid to sort of ask them if they know anyone else. And if they can suggest other people, you'd be surprised how much of connection you would open up by doing that.  09:30 Will: Now. So we've talked about engagement, we've talked about utilizing that guest relationship. So now this brings us to talking about measuring the ROI on your podcast. And we've actually put a lot of thought into this. There's a case study on our podcast on our website that you can check out at cp.digital.com But Susan's written some really good pieces on podcasts, ROI and not just looking at the numbers, they're important, but there's so much more that she's seen we've gotten from our podcast than merely the ratings and the numbers and the shares and that sort of thing. So Susan, why don't you tell us about it  10:02 Susan: For our podcast, here's the four step framework by which we measure. Obviously the base of it is the, what do you want to call the vanity metrics or who's consuming, who's sharing, who's commenting. Um, and in many cases that tends to be low, especially at the start. Then you might not see a whole lot. People might be listening to you on the actual channels and you can obviously look that up by going to the back end of it. So if you've got something like Libsyn. Libsyn, will give you some basic analytics for the specific channels like iTunes and Spotify. You might have to go down to each channel and get the information that you need. So that's a bit more technical than we have time to cover on this. But essentially you want to have the numbers for how many downloads, listeners, subscribers, reviews, that kind of thing. 10:49 Susan: You want to have a handle on that. So that's the first level of measurement to figure out what your ROI is. Then comes the second level, which we've been talking about quite a lot, which is the value of the relationships. And once again, if you think about the guests, not as like someone to sleazy sales pitch too, but rather a new set of doors that opened for you and you know, obviously ask for those referrals. Sometimes you don't even have to, like I said, people introduce you to people. So really evaluate the value of that relationship. Follow through on those extra conversations and remember that when you've built something like a podcast, which you can invite people, you've always got a solid piece of marketing that you can bring people back to. So even if you're not actually having a conversation with somebody who's a, who's a client avatar of your type, inviting Lambda on your podcast and helping them to promote themselves as often a great way to get those conversations started. 11:38 Susan: So think about it as a variation on the sales call. In some ways, not always, but in some ways the third level of what we measure out of it is quite simply the actual amount of business that we get out of it. Like when people reference the podcast and be like, Ooh, you produce this, we'd like to talk to you about whether it's you know, in the podcasting medium or whether it's in a different medium of content. We've gotten a fair bit of business that's come straight out of the fact that we have this podcast. And lastly, the thing that we measure number four is industry impact. So in our case, one of the examples is because we started this whole story with the 4:00 AM and what keeps you up at night, we tend to have a lot of emotionally intelligent conversations with people and around marketing and the state of it.  12:22 Susan: It's kind of taken us to a place where we have a lot of interesting discussions around the things that we want to impact as well. The fact that we have a micro podcast and it's about 15 minutes and you know, many people have leaned into that and said to us that they think it's a great idea. Firstly because it doesn't clutter up download space by being really long. And secondly, because people really, not necessarily everyone is commuting those long commutes where they have time for the more in depth learning episodes. So that's kind of our fourth step, who's consuming and sharing and that kind of thing. What is the value of the relationships you're building out of it? What is the actual amount of business that is coming thanks to your podcast. And the last is how are you impacting your industry? *** Still can't sleep? We would also love to know what's keeping you up at night! Email us your problems - your issue might be featured in our next episode! Any of these problems *speak* to you? Click here to subscribe in iTunes to hear about more things that haunt us or to keep an eye out for any of your problems. We might find a solution for you (or at least share your pain too!) We have more episodes with great tips, jokes and conversations - don't miss it!  If you get a chance, leave a review on iTunes so that others can find this podcast too! Just click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” We'd love to hear what your favourite part of this episode is in the comments below. Thank you!

To find out more about the Wisconsin Great River Road please check out the website www.WiGRR.com to find out about Stonefield Historic Site visit https://stonefield.wisconsinhistory.org/https://www.facebook.com/stonefieldhistoricsite/Susan: You know, there is something about the Mississippi River that just makes such a connection with people from all over the world. And we do get visitors from all over the world. We are just like in the heart of this beautiful area. We love to be a part of the Great River Road, and we are happy that we are one of the Interpretive Centers on the highway.Bob: The Wisconsin Great River Road Podcast. This time, [I’m] speaking with Susan Caya-Slusser. Susan is with the Wisconsin Historical Society. I visited the Stonefield historic site, and I’ll tell you what: That place was history alive. Susan, that place is amazing.Susan: It is. Yes, Stonefield is one of 12 historic sites operated by the Wisconsin Historical Society. It’s kind of a hidden gem down in Cassville, Wisconsin. It’s located right on the Great River Road. If you want to get to Cassville, there are so many things to do. There is even a car ferry. Yes, we need to get more people down there because there’s so much to see and so much to do once you get in the area.Bob: When we were walking through Stonefield – and there are a bunch of old farm implement in there – to be that close to some of that stuff and to look to see how big it was and to know what it does, that’s pretty cool. The little placard told me the story.Susan: Yes. So how Stonefield came to be is, it started in 1948. There was a great renewal and interest in our farming history. Folks were moving off the farm [and] they were moving into the cities. We wanted to make sure we didn’t lose this rich history, so that was what started it all. And Stonefield opened up for the first time in 1953.Bob: I couldn’t believe how cool the Stonefield site was. Was that the original Cassville where all the buildings are and the main street and you’re walking around the schoolhouses?Susan: When you come into Stonefield, there are different components that you’ll get to go on tour. There the homestead of Nelson Dewey. There is an entrance into what was Governor Nelson Dewey’s barn – this large, beautiful stone barn. There’s the State Ag [Agricultural] Museum. There’s a 1901 progressive farmhouse. But then you walk through this beautiful covered bridge that was built in 1964, and it takes you into a recreated village. The cool thing about it is a lot of the buildings that you’re seeing are old schoolhouses from across Wisconsin that have been repurposed. To recreate a village, what would it have been like for a farmer in 1900? This is the recreation in the people’s minds of the Wisconsin Historical Society and UW Extension what a farming village would have been like in 1900. If you visited the schoolhouse, that was actually the Muddy Hollow schoolhouse that was just up the road from where we sit today.Bob: I was thinking if my kids were in there, they’d be like. ‘How do you get Wi-Fi in here?’Susan: We are thrilled and we are fortunate that we get school visitors from not just Wisconsin, but also Illinois and Iowa that come and visit us in Stonefield. It is wonderful to be able to compare and contrast how things have changed over time, even to the boys sitting on one side of classroom and girls sitting on the other, even to the point where the boys and girls have to use separate doors. It’s just a way to take the kids back and make them think, and also hopefully make them appreciate what they have today.Bob: You mentioned just a minute ago about appreciating things that you have. I’m guessing anybody that walks through the State Agricultural Museum that looked at the old metal tires [and] the old iron tires, they would appreciate immediately the rubber tires we get to drive on today.Susan: Oh, yes. You kind of see a progressive change over time as you move through the State Agricultural Museum, even to one of the first that we have, we have a 1932 Allis Chalmers tractor parked way back in the corner. If you look at it, it actually has tires from an airplane.Bob: Is that why they’re bald?Susan: Yes. That is why they are big and bald the way they are. One of our claims to fame is that we have America’s oldest tractor. We have the McCormick Auto-Mower. The tractor we have is one of two prototypes made to exhibit at the World’s Fair in Paris in 1900.Bob: Besides the beauty of seeing Stonefield in its natural state, I’m assuming you guys probably have different events going on through the year.Susan: Yes. In June we do Agricultural Appreciation Day, tying in with June Dairy Month. In September we have our annual Great River Road Fall Fest. This one is a favorite of mine because it really brings the village to life – the sounds, the smell, the horse and tractors. It just really takes you back to a different time. One of our most popular events is in October, and that is what we call our “Safe and Spooky Event.” This is put on by the Friends of Stonefield and Nelson Dewey State Park – it’s our volunteer group. What happens is the whole village is transformed. Different volunteer groups come into the village, and all the buildings get transformed to be a little more spooky and eerie for Halloween. You will see everything and anyone at “Safe and Spooky Halloween.” All costumes are welcome.Bob: Susan, how do people find out more about Stonefield, the Wisconsin Historic Site?Susan: There are two ways I would recommend. The first is just our webpage, which is stonefield.wisconsinhistory.org. The second is we have a very active Facebook page, which is just Stonefield Historic Site. That’s where you can find out more information about our events. There’s something for everyone when you come and visit Stonefield.

难度：两星【句子】Boy, I'd like to put that theory to the test. 【Desperate Housewives S1E12】【发音】[bɔɪ] [aɪd] [laɪk] [tʊ] [pʊt] [ðæt] ['θɪəri] [tʊ] [ðə] [test] 【发音技巧】I'd like to不完全失去爆破+完全失去爆破；put that theory两处不完全失去爆破；【翻译】哎呦，我可真想去验证一下你这句话。【适用场合】先一起来回顾一下上下文的对话：Susan: You can go to the police, kick me, you can burn my house down. You just have to know that I am so racked with guilt. I don't think it's possible for me to suffer any more than I am already suffering.你可以去警察局告发我，教训我，你可以烧掉我的房子。但是你需要知道，我一直在内疚中煎熬着，没什么时候比现在这会儿更痛苦了。Edie: Boy, I'd like to put that theory to the test.是吗，我可真想验证一下你这句话。（看你说的到底是不是真的）在Susan的对话中，讲一下什么叫做be racked with/by…一般后面都跟一些痛苦/麻烦相关的词汇；表示“让某个人承受巨大的痛苦”to make sb. suffer great physical or mental painrack作动词经常用被动语态eg: He was racked by/with doubts.他内心充满怀疑。eg: He was racked by/with guilt.他内心充斥着内疚。eg: Her face was racked with pain. 她脸上写满了痛苦。 然后来看下第二个知识点： Edie说的put that theory to the test大家不要按照字面意思直译成：我真想把那个理论去验证一下。因为这里并没有真的什么theory，只是Susan的一种解释，一种说法而已。另外boy是语气词，别翻译成“男孩”闹笑话哦！put sb./sth. to the test 把某物/某个人拿去测验/验证一下to put sb./sth. in a situation which will show what their true qualities areeg: His theories have never really been put to the test.他的理论从来没有被验证过（是否正确）。eg: I'm going to put my car to the test right now, and see how fast it will go.我要去试驾一下我的车，看看最快能开到多少速度。【尝试翻译以下句子，并留言在文章留言区】The second part of the contest will put your general knowledge to the test.

难度：两星【句子】Boy, I'd like to put that theory to the test. 【Desperate Housewives S1E12】【发音】[bɔɪ] [aɪd] [laɪk] [tʊ] [pʊt] [ðæt] ['θɪəri] [tʊ] [ðə] [test] 【发音技巧】I'd like to不完全失去爆破+完全失去爆破；put that theory两处不完全失去爆破；【翻译】哎呦，我可真想去验证一下你这句话。【适用场合】先一起来回顾一下上下文的对话：Susan: You can go to the police, kick me, you can burn my house down. You just have to know that I am so racked with guilt. I don't think it's possible for me to suffer any more than I am already suffering.你可以去警察局告发我，教训我，你可以烧掉我的房子。但是你需要知道，我一直在内疚中煎熬着，没什么时候比现在这会儿更痛苦了。Edie: Boy, I'd like to put that theory to the test.是吗，我可真想验证一下你这句话。（看你说的到底是不是真的）在Susan的对话中，讲一下什么叫做be racked with/by…一般后面都跟一些痛苦/麻烦相关的词汇；表示“让某个人承受巨大的痛苦”to make sb. suffer great physical or mental painrack作动词经常用被动语态eg: He was racked by/with doubts.他内心充满怀疑。eg: He was racked by/with guilt.他内心充斥着内疚。eg: Her face was racked with pain. 她脸上写满了痛苦。 然后来看下第二个知识点： Edie说的put that theory to the test大家不要按照字面意思直译成：我真想把那个理论去验证一下。因为这里并没有真的什么theory，只是Susan的一种解释，一种说法而已。另外boy是语气词，别翻译成“男孩”闹笑话哦！put sb./sth. to the test 把某物/某个人拿去测验/验证一下to put sb./sth. in a situation which will show what their true qualities areeg: His theories have never really been put to the test.他的理论从来没有被验证过（是否正确）。eg: I'm going to put my car to the test right now, and see how fast it will go.我要去试驾一下我的车，看看最快能开到多少速度。【尝试翻译以下句子，并留言在文章留言区】The second part of the contest will put your general knowledge to the test.

Susan was in a lucrative sales leadership position working for a massive global company with 80,000 employees, and a wonderful paycheck. Tragedy struck as she had a major health catastrophe. Eventually, she followed the only option before. Retirement from the corporate world Mid life crisis in movies looks much glamorous: guy with a beautiful woman, fancy cars and all. But here, Susan was just left to literal crying. But the skills she learned in corporate combined with the no substitute tool-Hard Work, has made her an unbelievable 15 million dollars in just 18 months. Yes, when most other women hardly make 15 grand a month; she's rakes in 8 figures, yearly. In this episode, Susan talks about an important skill set that anyone can learn, especially women. With the skill set you can write your own ticket, create a life in your own terms even if you are an introvert. What we talked about: What kicked Susan into gear and helped her accelerate the idea of doing more meaningful work or making that adjustment? How was she able to deal with fears and hesitation? What was the strategy to move on? How in the world do you identify a support group or a network if you don't have one? How did the transition happen; from being great in the corporate world to coming out and becoming a successful business owner What is it that it takes to make marriage work? Would Susan be the person that she is today without the marriage? What are the insecurities Susan have today; the fears and challenges even though she's very successful in her marriage? Why women only? What does it mean to be less sleazy when influencing and persuading for sales? What's her strategy, and tools for success? Why don't women assume their power and step into this idea of being a prominent sales woman; being wealthy and being on the top of the lists? How can you encourage a woman to go take her stand and be ready for the sales world?   Noteworthy Quotes: "Everybody adds value to us and we add value to others" Susan "The hardest part is to actually ask for what we want, believe we deserve to receive it and be relentless and ruthless about actually preserving that space for ourselves" Susan "You can change your beliefs but your core values do not change; they are your guideposts that help you in good times and bad times, bad times in particular" Susan "Sometimes emotions complicate things and they make things really messy" Susan "I'm not a natural-born salesperson, I am a huge introvert but I'm a huge observer of people and of life, that one characteristic has really helped me be extremely successful" Susan "In order for people to actually help people they wanted through their businesses, utilizing their gifts or skills or experience and expertise; they had to get better at selling" Susan "Sales is a skill that you can teach, it's a skill that people who are willing to learn can actually learn and get better at" Susan "Selling is not sleazy unfortunately” Susan "It's really important that you get the help that you need that's going to help you to adapt what it is that you're struggling with" Susan "Women actually sell better than men, are often more recognized because they're louder and they tend to be just more confident" Susan "Women tend to be better at collaboration, they're better at listening,  they're better at thinking outside of the box, in terms of the subtle clues" Susan “People want more attention, they want more care, more relationship and that's where women personally do excel" Susan "If you learn the sales skill set, you can write your own ticket and you really can create your life on your terms" Manny "As a business owner and so you have to be willing to do the thing that nobody else is willing to do in order to keep moving forward" Susan "Building a business is hard work; it's not all rainbows and sunshine and smelling the roses and unicorns" Susan "There is no substitute for the hard work, it's really looking at what are you willing to do that nobody else is willing to do and how can you do it better than anybody else" Susan "Sometimes we get so consumed with what's happening day-to-day that we lose sight of ourselves, we lose sight of the joy that we inherently have as human beings" Susan

On our final episode of our series on theology we had the privilege of sitting down to talk with Kacie’s sister-in-law, Susan. We loved hearing Susan’s heart as she discussed how what she believes about God affects her everyday life as a social worker, how her theology has grown/changed over the years, and some of her favorite resources for learning more about who God is. This conversation was definitely a blessing to us and we pray that it is to you as well! Resources: The Jesus Storybook Bible by Sally Lloyd-Jones Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem The Westminster Catechism for Young Children The Gospel Coalition Booklets The Gospel Coalition Podcast None Like Him by Jen Wilkin Knowing God by J.I. Packer The Pursuit of God by A.W. Tozer Knowledge of The Holy by A.W. Tozer Quotes: “Theology is something we all have whether we know it or not.” - Susan “You have made us for yourself, and our hearts are restless, until they can find rest in you.” - St. Augustine “We are not just fighting against ourselves, we’re not just fighting against culture, but we’re fighting against the one that wants to thwart God’s plans”.-Susan “Theology is simple enough for a child to understand, but it is also so complex that you will spend your whole life and never fully grasp it.” -Susan *The beautiful music on today's episode is by Katie Cobbs*

Susan Hyatt is a master certified life coach, weight loss expert, and the author of BARE. She’s the creator of the trademarked BARE Process, the BARE Deck, a podcast called BARE, and an online community called BARE DAILY. We talk about: Helping women stop dieting How you know the inner voices are not your higher self How to silence the voice of the Inner Mean Girl Flipping the dialogue away from self-violent thoughts "There's no upside to violent self-thoughts. They don't help in any way," Susan says. "The more you allow yourself to be seen and take up space, the more you can conquer those voices that say you shouldn't." MENTIONED ON THE SHOW If I'm So Smart, Why Can't I Lose Weight? by Brooke Castillo GUEST LINKS - SUSAN HYATT shyatt.com BARE daily BARE Podcast BARE by Susan Hyatt (the book) HOST LINKS - SLADE ROBERSON Slade's Books & Courses Get an intuitive reading with Slade Automatic Intuition BECOME A PATRON https://www.patreon.com/shiftyourspirits Edit your pledge on Patreon TRANSCRIPT Susan: I help people get what they want. Slade: What does that mean? Susan: That means, so when you say to people, I'm a life coach, still most of the population has no idea what that means. Theres an elderly woman on a plane that thought that meant I was a hospice worker. And so I look at it more as a conversation starter. So I'm not, if I just say, I'm a life coach, people's eyes kind of glaze over and then they are like, Oh, okay. If I say, I help opoeple get what they want, then they're like, WHAAAT? Say more! And then it's a conversation I'm having about, I'm a life coach and an author and I specialize in helping women stop dieting. Sometimes I just say, I help women stop dieting and you can see, I've written a couple funny stories because especially women are like, What?? You help them stop?? What would you do that? Because we're so immersed in diet culture. People think that dieting is being healthy and it's actually the opposite of that. Slade: Hnm.. How did that land in your lap, by the way? How did that become your thing? Susan: Well, it became my thing because I was 35 - 40 pounds over my natural weight when my first year as a life coach. And I knew that there were underlying issues about that. And I felt like, Hahaha it was my final frontier to conquer. It wasn't, but it certainly was one issue that I needed to deal with. And I hired a weight loss coach named Brook Castillo who's amazing, and she has this great book, If I'm So Smart, Why Can't I Lose Weight? And what we really did was dive in to the emotional side of eating, which really rocked my world. And I lost that weight within about six months. And I was somebody who I joke, that I was, I really had a PhD in being a couch potato. I mean, I refused to exercise, I didn't want anyone telling me what I could or couldn't eat, and it really rocked my world. And I thought, If I can lose this extra weight, then I want to help other women do it. And so I became, I added weight loss coaching to my repertoire. And what I started to notice after coaching hundreds of women was, I was really spending the bulk of my time, because I could help anybody lose weight. It's really the inner deep work that makes weight loss sustainable, and it has nothing, I promise, to do with calories in, calories out, no pain no gain, all that stuff we're taught. It's really about, Is this woman cherishing herself, loving herself, giving herself enough daily pleasure so that she's not getting her entertainment from food, so that she's not getting her comfort from food, so that she's not numbing out. And I really started to notice that my clients, I could help them lose 50, 100 pounds, and then they would start complaining about other parts of their bodies. So yes, they had lost the weight, but now they were fixated on stretch marks, or, I still have a muffin top, or, Maybe I should get cosmetic surgery. And I started focusing on learning how to love your body as it is, right now. And THEN we'll do this other stuff. And BINGO! Everything changed. And so I developed this process called BARE, and it's really a process of bringing a woman back to herself. And figuring out that diet just keeps you on this deprivation cycle that you can't win. And the diet industry's actually counting on that. It's like, I think the latest statistic, it's a over 100 billion dollar industry and it's designed to keep you dissatisfied with how you look so that you keep spending money trying to become something else . Slade: Wow. Do you remember what the breaking point was for you? The shift that happened in your own mindset. I mean, now, working with the other clients, you were able to see it from outside and observe it in controlled environment. But when that happened to you, can you go back and remember what that mindset shift was? Susan: Yeah, I can remember. There was this moment, it was, I think maybe I had lost about 16 pounds of the 35 to 40, and we were going on spring break vacation and my daughter at the time was maybe 7. And I bought a new bikini and I was so excited in the store about having this bathing suit. And I remember my coach wanted me, she made a joke about a client of hers that she had asked to take a picture of herself in a swimsuit and send it to her. And when the photo arrived, it was a photo of her client flipping her off. And I started laughing and I said, "Don't ever assign that to me." And she was like, "Oh, really?? That's your homework then!" And so I have my daughter, I put my swimsuit on, I was actually feeling great. My little 8-year old Emily takes a photo of me and I felt fine the entire process. Until I looked at the photo on my big desktop screen. And all of a sudden, all of these really negative thoughts started flooding in. That were still there about, Oh, you don't look as good as you thought, and just really self-violent thoughts that almost all women have about their bodies. And I thought, You've got some real work to do. And I often think about, I was doing a webinar yesterday and I was talking about this. When you look at little kids. Say a film crew shows up at an elementary school, little kids are fighting, shoving each other out of the way to be seen on camera. This is an exciting thing, like, Look at me, I'm on TV! And at some point, we receive messages from either family of origin or culture at large that the way that you look is not acceptable. And by the time we reach our age, we're so full of these messages that we should look a certain way and we're not good enough. And in that moment when I looked at myself on screen, I was like, You have got to figure out how to be like that again. Be like, There I am! Look at me! And show up. And stop this hiding because you have some cellulite or whatever it might be. And that was really a moment, an AHA moment, a breaking point moment, a moment where I shifted and decided to devote myself to figuring that out. And I did! And I can tell you that people are always asking me, I don't understand how you get all that stuff done. And I can tell you, the reason I get so much stuff done, is because I'm no longer obsessing about food and body and how I look. Slade: Mmm... Tell me about, well, first I have to tell you. You probably know this about me but I like to personify the archetypes, I like to communicate with voices, a lot of the work I do with people is around policing the negative self talk. You know, it's really about learning how to, not only identify that, but one of the things that you pointed out was, these voices come from your family and society. They don't come from your higher self. They don't come from little kid you. You've got them from somewhere. You took them on, you download them, and you call them your own thoughts and they're really not. I noticed when I was looking at your website, before the interview, that you have an archetype called the Inner Mean Girl. Tell me about her. Is that who it is that's saying all these mean things? Susan: Yes! And you're absolutely right. These thoughts that we absorb and take on as our own, we were not born into this world with those kind of beliefs. We picked them up along the way and yeah, your inner mean girl is the one saying really horrible things to you about yourself that are untrue and the way that you know they're not true is because they make you feel horrible. And I think most women think that that is because they talk with their girlfriends, they talk with their mom, they talk with other people and everybody goes, "Oh yeah! Me too!" And so they think, Well that's normal and that's just the way it is. But it is prevalent in our culture but it's not what we were meant to experience, and so we have to clap back at that and tell the mean girl to have a seat and educate her on how you want to be treated. And you can flip the dialogue on that and practice talking back to her and saying kind things, because, listen, even if you want to argue with me and say, No, but she's right. I DO need to lose weight. I don't exercise. I am lazy. You've to to ask yourself different questions and tell yourself different things so that you change your behaviour, but there's no upside to self-violent thoughts, if you haven't noticed. There's no upside to it. Slade: Right. Susan: It doesn't help in any way. Slade: So you recently landed a big book deal. And I know this because we're friends on Facebook and you've been talking about the process and everything. Is this book deal, The BARE Message, is that what this is about? Tell me about the book. Susan: The book is called BARE, and we're still working on the subtitle. But thank you very much. Yes, I'm so excited to have a book deal for it. It's basically - Slade: Yay! Congrats! Susan: Thank you!!! I'm so stoked! Actually, just had a meeting with my publishing team yesterday, and they are on it. It's gonna be fire. I cannot wait for it to hit. Actually, pre-sale, the book is not going to be out until January of 2019, so there's a big process to getting these books out into the world, and I'm slightly impatient... Slade: Yeah... Susan: I would like it to be in your hands tomorrow, but pre-orders, actually, will start fairly soon, but the books will not ship until January. And yes, it's a book full of personal stories and client stories and it walks you through the BARE process. And the thing that I like about the BARE process is - so when you get the book, it's a story, and then there's a challenge. So it gets you taking action immediately. Side note, I have a podcast, the BARE podcast, which is going to drop on iTunes maybe by next week, so people, while they're waliting on the book, can check out the podcast. I'm dropping an entire season at once, so it can walk people through... there's 8 episodes in season 1. It walks people through the BARE process. You can do it on your own or you can decide to hire a coach to help you. Slade: Oh! Okay. You also have, for people who don't want to wait, who want to dive in and work with it, this platform, this work, this material exists in various forms. You have a community, an online community around it already, right? Susan: Yeah, yeah! It's called BARE Daily. The way that it's set up is, if someone joins the community, they get access, a username and password to an online classroom that has the BARE process in videos, so you can watch a video, there's homework assignments, there's tons of stuff in there. And then, in the private forum, I'm in there every day and so are my BARE coaches. So let's say you sign up and you start doing the BARE process, and you hit a wall or you have an issue, which you will. Coaches are there 24/7 to coach you through what's happening in the forum. So it's really a sweet set up. Slade: I have to ask you this question. I love to ask everyone this, and I'm trying to learn to ask it in a more postitive way, but, as someone who's spent some time now in the personal development world, what do you most hope to change about the conversation? Susan: So many things, Slade. So many things. Primarily, I want to disrupt diet culture. So the segment of the self-help industry that focuses on food, body and weight, I want to change the conversation from fear and deprivation to pleasure, love, positivity. So that's number one. People who are promoting unhealthy, unsustainable lifestyle changes, things that you wrap your body in, or starve yourself. All these kinds of things. I definitely want to, not flip the switch, flip the table on those folks. And then, also, the part of the self-help industry that is selling a bill of goods around, how do I say this? So I'm a big believer in spiritual grease plus elbow grease. Meaning, Yes, the Universe has your back. Yes, the Universe is conspiring in your favour. And whatever higher power you believe in, yes, your higher power, your higher self wants you to have everything that you crave. But you have to couple that faith in belief with action. And so, I get pretty worn out with people who are selling the idea that if you just believe it hard enough, it will happen. Slade: Mmm... yeah. Like the law of attraction method, I mean, not like specifically, but some of that stuff. Like thinking it will be true, feel your way into the reality, that kind of stuff? Susan: Yeah, because it's only part of the story. I have dear friends who are big law of attraction teachers, and I think people misunderstand it and they think, Well if I pay this money and I make a vision board, and I just believe that I'm going to own a Mercedes, and it's going to appear in my driveway... And tomorrow, I'm going to be dancing with Cardi B and Bruno Mars. It's gonna happen. Yes, if you do some things to put yourself in the path of Cardi B, if you do some work and go to the Mercedes dealership, you know? Slade: Right. Susan: It's just, I believe in magic, I believe in miracles, but I grew up Catholic. I'm a recovered Catholic. But my mother used to always say, God helps those who help themselves! And I guess that's really stuck with me, because I believe that to be true that, yes these miraculous things can happen, but you have to get out of your own way and do some work. Slade: I actually believe that too and I wasn't even indoctrinated to believe it. But that line, you know, God helps those who help themselves, really does work for me. You know, if somebody says it to me and I'm like, Amen! You know what I mean? Susan: Hallelujah! Slade: And I do write and teach law of attraction stuff in hopefully my corrected methods but, one of the things I like to introduce into the conversation is that, what you describe that the vision board thing is like working with one element as opposed to all the sacred elements. It's like legs on a stool kind of thing. You've got some other legs you've got to attach to this thing before it'll stand up. Susan: Yeah! And I totally, I mean I do vision board workshops online. It's not... I love all those things. They just have to be combined, like you said, with other practices. Slade: Well that's one of the reasons I wanted you to be on here. Because this is fewer hearts and flowers, we still love all the spiritual stuff, right? And the thing I love about you is you embody that very down to earth use of these things as tools. It's not an airy fairy thing for you. You love to show yourself doing it. You're on camera a lot. People can Facebook live right into your office on a daily basis. Susan: Yeah, it's true. Slade: And I love that about you too because you're never full hair and make up and wearing a glitter gown, except in a photo shoot, which you do. You get that out of your system. Susan: You gotta bring the big guns in sometimes, but yeah, on a daily basis I'm typically in my work out clothes with no make up. Slade: Well, you know what? That was very inspiring to me as I was developing this podcast and putting it out, because one of the pieces of advice that I got was, just don't worry about the intro music and the this and the that at the other thing. It's about you speaking, it's about the content, and it's about letting people hear you and the guests that you connect with. Just think of it as a big voice mail. Just take it down a notch. And that was very freeing for me. And you and I had a little interaction on Facebook probably about a year ago about that whole thing and you encouraged me. You were like, Yeah, people need to see you. Susan: Hmm? Slade: That probably will be my next step. Is to get to let my face be out there more. But that's one of those things... Susan: Dude! Why would you not let your face be seen??? You're a hottie! Slade: Because! Susan: McHotterson! You are depriving your audience of... You will be blessing the interwebs with your face. Slade: Alright. Susan: I need to come over there and smack you around. Slade: Well you'll be proud to know that I'm going to do my first Facebook live next week. For my - Susan: Next week?! How about this afternoon?? Slade: Well because it's a training for my Automatic Intuition peeps, so they get to be exposed to me first. But I was thinking about it and I was like, Yeah, you know what? I'm just going to sit on camera and... And I totally thought I 'm going to do this Susan Hyatt style. That you were my inspiration for that. Susan: That's awesome. And I have to say, that's part of the BARE process. Is to make you seen and be seen. So you have to, the more you allow yourself to be seen and take up space, the more you can conquer those voices that say that you shouldn't, that you don't look alright, like, whatever. Put yourselves out there, people. Slade: Well that was kind of my last big question for you, was about the whole make a scene concept. We're all rooting for you, living through you vicariously, as you're making your scenes and posting about that. And people just have to follow you online to get the full experience of what I'm talking about, because it unfolds, as you encounter things in your daily life and you share it. So, I used to, my friends in college actually used to call me Julie Sugarbaker, and I was notorious for telling some people off. You know what I mean? And I was really good at it. But I reached a point where I kind of had to dial back a lot of my anger. I had to go all the way back, strip back down and work my way back up again, and as we all know, this last year or so has been very trying when it comes to posting things online about your, the things that you're pissed about. I always look at you and I'm like, How is she coming out smelling like a rose every time? Because you are so good at doing something. Like, if I do what you do, I end up in a flame war. I mean... Susan: Oh! You mean with your following. People get mad. Slade: Yes! Like, you are so good at treading the line on making the scene and sharing the fact that you're pissed and putting it out there and calling stuff out without, somehow, ending up in tears at the end of the day and you wasted your whole day arguing with people online. So I'm wondering, What am I missing? Where do we draw the line there? How do you police that energy? Susan: So I have an unfair advantage, and my unfair advantage is that I have, for 19 years, parented a man named Ryan Hyatt. And Ryan Hyatt is some of the biggest most challenging energy that you could encounter. So I feel like I have been in boot camp with how to have boundaries, express feelings, call it like it is, in a way that doesn't set fire to everything. Sometimes I do want to set fire to everything, so there's number one. So sorry Slade, I'm going to have to ship Ryan off to you so that you can get some practice with that before, but... Secondly, I think I'm always, one of the things that I teach in writing, or when I'm training coaches on how to come up with content, how to come up with content for Facebook, how to come up with content for your blog, for your podcast, for whatever reason, a fellow Sugarbaker over here, I have always been able to come up with topics more readily, more easily, if I think about what has irritated me or pissed me off lately. And then what I do is say, Okay, I'm really irritated about whatever, these people who are selling diets. Then I try to come up, before I open my mouth, I try to come up with the life coachy solution to it, so that it's not just a rant. That I'm offering my displeasure, and I'm all, Let me tell you something, but I couch it in, Well here's what you could do for yourself if you're experiencing this too. And so I think that's what keeps it from just being something that would ruin someone's day. My day, your day, whatever. Slade: I like it. Susan: Yeah. So there's a little bit... Then also, you know it, I do get hate mail, I do get people who disagree and who will post things, but I shut it down pretty quickly. I don't let them have a platform on my platform. I'm open minded, so if they're talking about something respectfully and they just disagree, that's fine. But if they're trying to set fire to my Facebook thread, then they're immediately blocked. That's it. You don't get to come over on my page and do that. Sorry. Slade: You know what? I actually realized as you were saying this that, I teach this in terms of, journalling. I used to keep diaries a lot and that's a big tool for me and at some point I realized, it was nothing but whining. And when I did Morning Pages for the first time, the Julia Cameron style, I remember being like, You know what? I'm not just going to bitch every morning for 15 minutes. How's that a way to start the day? So I made a rule with myself that the only way that I can mention something that was wrong in my diary is if I put a potential solution there. Or, I am broke, here's what I'm going to do about it, kind of thing. And I teach that to people a lot. You can't, it's one thing to, like you said, it's one thing to rant, and it's one thing to vent, but I think even venting in your private space, without having constructive context, is damaging. You're just letting the inner mean girl have a dance party in your head. Susan: Right. Slade: So, what's next for you? You've got this big book coming out but it's going to take awhile. So what are you going to do in the meantime? Susan: So what I'm doing in the meantime is, I'm trying to build my BARE membership community up and I am spending a lot of time inside there. We have cooking classes and exercise classes... Just all kinds of great content that happens privately in there. I'll be spending most of my time in there. I'm also doing some international retreats this year. One to Italy that's already sold out and one to England and maybe one to Paris. That's one of my favorite cities. And then I'm training a bunch of BARE coaches, so coaches in the BARE methodology, so that they can spread this far and wide, and just on my regular! Slade: It must be fun to be you. Susan: It IS fun to be me! And I tell you, I remind myself of that every morning when my inner mean girl wants to whine about how much she has to do. I slap her around and tell her she is so lucky, that she's to stay in the miracle and be grateful for this practice and this business and this life. Slade: Mmm... Susan, I truly do love your energy. I could talk to you all day long, and one of the reasons why I had to get you on my show is because you'll probably be too famous next year to be on my show. Susan: Stop it! Never too famous for you. Slade: Anyway, it was fantastic to get to capture a chat with you and introduce you to some of my peeps who may not have heard of you before. So tell everyone where where they can go to find you online. Susan: Thank you so much, by the way. This was a delight. My website URL, is SHyatt.com. And then you can follow me on Instragram @SusanHyatt, or on also Facebook, same handle. Thank you for coming on the show Susan. Susan: Thank you! Thanks again for listening to the Shift Your Spirits podcast. For show notes, links, and all the past episodes please visit www.shiftyourspirits.com You can subscribe in iTunes or Stitcher or whatever app you use to access podcasts. If you’d like to get an intuitive reading with me or download a free ebook and meditation to help you connect with your guides please go to https://sladeroberson.com/ and if you’re interested in my professional intuitive training program, you can start the course for free by downloading the Attunement at https://automaticintuition.com/

'Hear English' is a blog that provides podcasts and transcripts to help people learn English, find us at http://hearenglishhere.blogspot.com/.Free image courtesy of 'stockfreeimages.com'The Water Cooler (Slow)Too slow? Try the faster version in the next post. They may look like busy professionals, but the staff at Colourful Solutions Ltd (Colsol), aren’t always as serious or hardworking as they appear, and we find out what mischief they’ve been up to as they talk around the water cooler.Click above to listen.  You can get the mp3. here.Episode 5 - Root Vegetable Crisps (Slow) Too slow? Try the faster version in the next post. Featuring the vocal talents of Sophie Iafrate (Susan).  (Free sound effects courtesy of 'Soundjay.com'), Susan: Hey Keith, could you do me a favour?  I’ve got to photocopy this handout for a presentation with a potential client and they’re going to be here in five minutes and I’ve not arranged the meeting room.   Could you set up the projector and arrange some sandwiches nicely on plates, make sure there’s a jug of something to drink and stick the crisps in a bowl?Keith: No problem Susan, you know I’m always happy to help!  Which meeting room is it?Susan: Meeting room 2, you know, the one with the strange smell.  Great, thanks a bunch Keith, I owe you one.… later …Susan: They’re here!  Thanks so much for sorting out the room Keith.Keith (with mouth full): Glad I could be of assistance.Susan: And I suppose you earned the crisps you’re eating … wait a second … You greedy thing, you’ve eaten all the crisps in the bowl. Keith (still with mouth full): Sorry, but they’re my favourite flavour.  I couldn’t resist.Susan: You aren’t half annoying sometimes Keith.Keith: I said I’m sorry, but it’s your own fault really, if you got flavours I didn’t like then I wouldn’t be tempted.Susan: Next time, that’s exactly what I’ll do.  You don’t like those root vegetable crisps do you?Keith: Oh, with beetroot and carrot?  No, that stuff’s not for me, I like my crisps to be made of potato.Susan: Then from now on, I’ll get them instead.… later …Keith: Hi Janet, how did Susan’s presentation go?Janet: It went really well, they liked what she showed them and they’ve just emailed to say they want to commission us for the job. Keith: Fantastic, so they weren’t put off by the strange smell?Janet: Nope … but they were impressed with how well arranged everything was, and Susan tells me that you set up the meeting room, so thank you for that.  In fact, there’s another meeting to finalise a few details at 5.  Would you be able to set the room up again?Keith: Yeah, of course.… later …Susan: Thanks Keith, the room looks great!Keith: You’re welcome.Susan: Right Janet, I think we’re ready.Janet: Not quite, I filled up the bowl in the middle of the table, but for some reason it’s empty again.Susan: Oh Keith, I can’t believe you ate the root-vegetable crisps…you don’t even like them.Janet: You mean…you ate everything in that bowl?Keith: Err, yeah, I’m sorry, it was a bad joke.  I’ll get some more root-vegetable crisps from the canteen for you right away.Janet: Keith, to refill the bowl, you don’t need to go to the kitchen, you need to go to the stock cupboard, and then maybe you should go home early via the doctors.  The bowl wasn’t full of root-vegetable crisps.  Because of the strange smell, I had filled it with pot-pourri.

'Hear English' is a blog that provides podcasts and transcripts to help people learn English, find us at http://hearenglishhere.blogspot.com/.Free image courtesy of 'stockfreeimages.com'The Water Cooler (Fast)Too fast? Try the slower version in the previous post. They may look like busy professionals, but the staff at Colourful Solutions Ltd (Colsol), aren’t always as serious or hardworking as they appear, and we find out what mischief they’ve been up to as they talk around the water cooler.Click above to listen.  You can get the mp3. here. Episode 5 - Root Vegetable Crisps (Fast) Too fast? Try the slower version in the previous post. Featuring the vocal talents of Sophie Iafrate (Susan).  (Free sound effects courtesy of 'Soundjay.com'),  Susan: Hey Keith, could you do me a favour?  I’ve got to photocopy this handout for a presentation with a potential client and they’re going to be here in five minutes and I’ve not arranged the meeting room.   Could you set up the projector and arrange some sandwiches nicely on plates, make sure there’s a jug of something to drink and stick the crisps in a bowl? Keith: No problem Susan, you know I’m always happy to help!  Which meeting room is it?Susan: Meeting room 2, you know, the one with the strange smell.  Great, thanks a bunch Keith, I owe you one.… later …Susan: They’re here!  Thanks so much for sorting out the room Keith.Keith (with mouth full): Glad I could be of assistance.Susan: And I suppose you earned the crisps you’re eating … wait a second … You greedy thing, you’ve eaten all the crisps in the bowl.  Keith (still with mouth full): Sorry, but they’re my favourite flavour.  I couldn’t resist.Susan: You aren’t half annoying sometimes Keith.Keith: I said I’m sorry, but it’s your own fault really, if you got flavours I didn’t like then I wouldn’t be tempted. Susan: Next time, that’s exactly what I’ll do.  You don’t like those root vegetable crisps do you?Keith: Oh, with beetroot and carrot?  No, that stuff’s not for me, I like my crisps to be made of potato.Susan: Then from now on, I’ll get them instead.… later …Keith: Hi Janet, how did Susan’s presentation go?Janet: It went really well, they liked what she showed them and they’ve just emailed to say they want to commission us for the job.  Keith: Fantastic, so they weren’t put off by the strange smell?Janet: Nope … but they were impressed with how well arranged everything was, and Susan tells me that you set up the meeting room, so thank you for that.  In fact, there’s another meeting to finalise a few details at 5.  Would you be able to set the room up again?Keith: Yeah, of course.… later …Susan: Thanks Keith, the room looks great! Keith: You’re welcome.Susan: Right Janet, I think we’re ready.Janet: Not quite, I filled up the bowl in the middle of the table, but for some reason it’s empty again.Susan: Oh Keith, I can’t believe you ate the root-vegetable crisps…you don’t even like them.Janet: You mean…you ate everything in that bowl?Keith: Err, yeah, I’m sorry, it was a bad joke.  I’ll get some more root-vegetable crisps from the canteen for you right away.Janet: Keith, to refill the bowl, you don’t need to go to the kitchen, you need to go to the stock cupboard, and then maybe you should go home early via the doctors.  The bowl wasn’t full of root-vegetable crisps.  Because of the strange smell, I had filled it with pot-pourri.