Podcasts about Boyds

The Boyds are back and Las Vegas has never been the same. 

In this episode, Harriet Edwards from Boyds hosts a discussion on 2025 predictions in drug development and regulatory affairs. Joined by regulatory experts Dr. Katherine Bowen and Dr. Eric Harder, the conversation covers the anticipated trends in the realm of cell and gene therapy, rare diseases, and the increasing role of artificial intelligence (AI). As we look ahead to 2025, Boyds' regulatory experts discuss the evolving regulatory landscape, legislative changes in the US and EU, and the importance of patient-centric approaches. Join us for this insightful journey as we uncover what 2025 has in store for drug development and regulatory strategies. 

Mid-distance track sensation, Tinoda Matsatsa, joins the show today amidst an impressive sophomore campaign at Georgetown. Tinoda, who hails from Boyds, Maryland, is off to an electric start to his collegiate running career, and seems poised to continue to chase records and wins no matter where he goes. So far in his young college career he has run the following PRs: 48.88 in the 400m; 1:45.17 in the 800m; 2:16.84 in the 1,000m; and 3:54.15 in the mile. If you're staring at those numbers–mouth agape–you're not alone.  In January of 2024, Tinoda set a new NCAA record for the indoor 1,000m run with a time of 2:18.05. Almost exactly a year later, he lowered that time–running a 2:16.84 this past January 18 at the Nittany Lion Challenge. Tinoda has had a great start to his sophomore year, running his aforementioned mile PR at the BU Sharon Colyear-Danville Season Opener, coming in second.  Tinoda's parents moved to the United States several years before he was born. He went to St. Andrew's Episcopal School in Maryland. While at prep school, the 5-foot-9 senior became just the 20th runner in prep school history to break 4 minutes in the mile. He capped his senior season with a state record in the mile; followed by a win the 800m run at the Brooks PR invitational; and then ended his season winning the national title with a state-record 1:47.61 in the 800m.  Prior to becoming a running star, Tinoda loved soccer. He was a striker on his team and excelled at the sport. He even hid from his middle school track coach because soccer was his priority. His mother eventually convinced him to do track to stay in shape, and the rest is history. We're thrilled for you to hear this and more from our conversation with another star-in-the-making, who will surely be making noise in the coming months and years on the collegiate and professional track and field circuit. In today's conversation, Tinoda takes me through stories from how he got into the sport of running, how he progressed in high school, his training leading into his sub-4min mile in HS, his time at Georgetown thus far, his dreams for LA 2028, and so much more.  Tap into the Tinoda Matsatsa Special.   If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.  If this episode blesses you, please share it with a friend! S H O W  N O T E S -Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  -THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ -My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

[REBROADCAST FROM Oct. 3, 2024] Before Roe v. Wade, Dr. Curtis Boyd decided to dedicate his career to providing safe, but illegal, abortions in Texas and New Mexico. It was at one of those clinics that he met his wife, Glenna Halverson-Boyd, who became a counselor to women seeking an abortion. The couple write about their decades of providing abortion care and advocacy in their new memoir, We Choose To: A Memoir of Providing Abortion Care Before, After, and During Roe. The Boyds join us to discuss as part of our political book series, Get Po-Lit-ical.

Before Roe v. Wade, Dr. Curtis Boyd decided to dedicate his career to providing safe, but illegal, abortions in Texas and New Mexico. It was at one of those clinics that he met his wife, Glenna Halverson-Boyd, who became a counselor to women seeking an abortion. The couple write about their decades of providing abortion care and advocacy in their new memoir, We Choose To: A Memoir of Providing Abortion Care Before, After, and During Roe. The Boyds join us to discuss as part of our political book series, Get Political.

In this episode of Conversations in Drug Development, host Harriet Edwards is joined by two regulatory experts from Boyds, Dr Patrick Ginty and Monica Pianella, to discuss cell-based immunotherapies, focusing on CAR-T cells and TCR-T cells. Patrick and Monica delve into these cutting-edge treatments, discussing their uses, the complexities of their production, and important safety considerations. They also highlight recent advancements and the exciting future prospects for these therapies in cancer treatment and other areas. Tune in for an insightful discussion on the future of cell-based immunotherapies, examining both the hurdles and the potential of these innovative treatments.

Gianmarco Soresi is a New York based stand-up comedian, actor, and creator known for his sharp societal observation and spry, energetic stage presence. He's been featured on Billy Crystal's Here Today, Netflix's Bonding, Hustlers, The Last OG. He's in Portland performing at Helium over the weekend, and came in to chat with Terry Boyd's World!

Welcome to a special edition of Conversations in Drug Development, brought to you by the team at Boyds.  In this episode, our host Harriet Edwards hands over the mic to two of her colleagues to discuss a critical topic for early-stage biotech companies: funding challenges and how to overcome them. Dr Nick Myers and Dr Neil Fish, share their extensive experience and insights into navigating the complexities of funding and investment. They delve into what makes an effective pitch deck, the importance of presentation skills, and the role of a well-organized data room. Additionally, they offer valuable advice on matching fundraising activities to the right investors and the impact of market trends on investment strategies.

If you're planning on tuning into the General Conference this weekend, don't miss the special coverage around each of the sessions. Both KSL radio and TV will have great exclusive coverage on Saturday and Sunday, including Boyds own project The Training of the Twelve: Ordinary men with an extraordinary global ministry.

We are proud to announce two BRAND NEW rifles to the Vanguard® lineup. The first being the Vanguard Spike Camp™ For those of you that have been asking for heavier and shorter barrels this is the rifle for you. A #3 contour barrel paired with the Boyds™ laminate thumbhole wood stock makes for a deadly combination in the field or at the range. The new Vanguard Obsidian maintains the classic Weatherby® features and has a sleek all-black aesthetic. The 3-position safety ensures safe loading and unloading and the synthetic stock holds up against the harshest of weather. Luke and Tyler host Raleigh and Seth to talk in detail about the two new additions to the Vanguard lineup and find themselves headed down some rabbit holes. In this episode we discuss: - Features of the Vanguard Spike Camp - Available caliber offerings of the Spike Camp - A day in the life of Raleigh - Inside hints at new products with shorter barrels - The Vanguard Obsidian's amazing price point value Connect with Weatherby! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/weatherbyinc/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Weatherbyinc/ Follow our shotgun page! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wbyfieldandflight/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WBYfieldandflight

Start your week off with Boyd Matheson and go past the headlines of the day's biggest stories. Congressman Blake Moore joins the show to give insight into the controversial spending deal and how its fallout might cast the Speaker his job. Brett Samuels lays out how cash flow will impact the presidential campaign trail. Listen into Boyds conversation with former Governor Mike Levitt from KSLs Sunday Edition. Have we outgrown social security and more!  

In this episode of Conversations in Drug Development, host Harriet Edwards is joined by Katie Rudnick and Dr Julie Warner from Boyds to discuss US regulatory trends and initiatives at the FDA. This episode explores the FDA's recent organizational changes, pilot programs, and focus on innovative clinical trials, including the use of AI in drug discovery. Join us for another Conversation in Drug Development, exploring the dynamic landscape of regulatory trends expected in 2024 and beyond, with a key emphasis on the US scope.  

Boyds discusses The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints acquisition of the Kirtland Temple, along with other historic sites in Nauvoo, Illinois. The Church also acquired  manuscripts, letters,and other historic artifacts from the Community of Christ Church. Church Historian Edler Kyle S. McKay and Managing Director of Church History Department Matt Grow join the show.

To celebrate Rare Disease Day, we are back with another Conversation in Drug Development, this time discussing the unique challenges of rare disease drug development. Dr Eric Hardter, Associate Director of Regulatory Affairs at Boyds, joins our host Harriet Edwards to explore the need for early stakeholder involvement, the complexities of pediatric clinical trials, including ethical considerations and regulatory requirements and to touch on FDA initiatives supporting rare disease therapeutics and the evolving landscape for cell and gene therapies. To discuss this episode of Conversations in Drug Development with a member of the team, visit www.boydconsultants.com.

We are kickstarting 2024 with a Conversation in Drug Development with CEO and Founder of Boyds, Professor Alan Boyd. In this podcast episode, our host Harriet Edwards, and Professor Alan Boyd discuss trends from 2023  in the drug development space and its potential evolution in 2024. Join us as we explore the financial downturn affecting early-stage investment, the rise of cell and gene therapy approvals, and the use of artificial intelligence in various areas of drug discovery and development.

Are orcas Catholic? Discuss Holly provides a crucial update on the Pope's Exorcist film franchise It's past time you all learned about the Boyds, ringlords of East Tennessee Michigan's rampaging streak of normal ones continues unchecked coming up: Jim Fight! Spencer invents Louisiana Iowa Jason anoints New Bedlam Visit sunny preownedairboats.com! Subscribe to Vacation Bible School and Channel 6 and Buried Treasure! Listen to We're Not All Like This and DNF! Sign your name away in full faith to Shutdown Fullbooks! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are orcas Catholic? Discuss Holly provides a crucial update on the Pope's Exorcist film franchise It's past time you all learned about the Boyds, ringlords of East Tennessee Michigan's rampaging streak of normal ones continues unchecked coming up: Jim Fight! Spencer invents Louisiana Iowa Jason anoints New Bedlam Visit sunny preownedairboats.com! Subscribe to Vacation Bible School and Channel 6 and Buried Treasure! Listen to We're Not All Like This and DNF! Sign your name away in full faith to Shutdown Fullbooks! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Thank you for listening to Brown Mama Bear hosted by Shanera Williamson.  Today on the show, Shanera welcomes entrepreneur and co-creator of Boyd Cru Wines, Jon'll Boyd.  Boyd Cru Wines is part of the 1% of black-owned wineries in the United States. The Boyds started this business with a mindset to offer community connection along with their signature wines.   Connect with Jon'll Boyd and Boyd Cru Wines: Website, Instagram, Facebook   Connect with Shanera and Brown Mama Bear: Facebook, Instagram, Website   Make sure you share Brown Mama Bear with at least 3 friends so you have someone to talk with about these things.  

Bridget and Davlyn Boyd, residents of Houston, Texas, were in their early 50s, held frenzied jobs, and dreamed of living on a Caribbean island. Their goal was to find an affordable island with a large population of people of color and a middle class - not a place with solely rich and poor inhabitants. After a thorough search, the Boyds discovered Punta Cana, Dominican Republic checked all the boxes. They sold their Houston home, retired earlier than expected and relocated to Punta Cana where they are thriving. Find out more about the Boyds' dreamy island life, check out Episode 153 of Retire There with Gil & Gene.Learn about living in Punta Cana on Bridget's YouTube channel, Ebony Ladies in the DR. With her life coaching company, Let's Talk About It, Bridget is available to talk about a variety of subjects, including moving abroad adjustments. Bridget also owns Boyd's Wedding Dresses, Punta Cana's only bridal shop.

This is the latest episode of the free DDW narrated podcast, “A business case for drug discovery", which covers three articles written for Volume 23, Issue 3 – Summer 2022 of DDW. They are called “A deal in the making”, “Why project management holds the key to efficient drug development”, and “Transcending expectations for cell & gene therapy development”.  In the first article, Drug Discovery World Editor Reece Armstrong looks at how a number of deals in pharma have sparked excitement in the industry. In the second article, Ian Hollingsworth, Associate Director of product development at Boyds, the global drug development consultancy, explains the benefits to the drug development lifecycle of building strong partnerships with external consultants, and when and how to get the best from them.  In the third article, David Lewandowski, Business Director of Cell & Gene Therapy at Azenta Life Sciences, explains how efficient sample management can help to work efficiently and bring therapies to market faster.

Your rifle's stock is your primary contact point with the launch platform that kills your quarry. Choose wisely. Here's how. Wood & Laminate wood stocks Proven, aesthetic, easy to work with & accurize Susceptible to changes in moisture Injection-molded composites Cheap plastic Better quality "glass-filled nylon" Overly flexible Hard to glass bed & accurize Susceptible to extremes in temperature High-end carbon-fiber stocks Carbon fiber lightest & most rigid Easy to glass bed & accurize Extremely strong Lightest material available Impervious to both moisture and temperature shifts Expensive Chassis-type stocks Ultimately configurable Many can be folded for easy packing Heavy, cold to the touch Snaggy in brush Noisy when bumped Best for hunting are new magnesium/carbon fiber Keep screws tight Expensive PLUS: Stock shapes for ergonomics & performance How to get the best from your stock in real-world use How to pick a replacement stock for a production rifle How to select a stock for a custom rifle build ENJOY!    FRIENDS, PLEASE SUPPORT THE PODCAST!  Join the Backcountry Hunting Podcast tribe and get access to all our bonus material on www.patreon.com/backcountry VISIT OUR SPONSORS HERE:  www.browning.com www.barnesbullets.com www.leupold.com www.gunwerks.com www.onxmaps.com www.silencercentral.com https://www.portersfirearms.com/ www.siembidacustomknives.com https://javelinbipod.com www.timneytriggers.com

Kayla DiCello is a world-class gymnast at the University of Florida. The Boyds native and Northwest High School alum was recently honored as the Southeastern Conference (SEC) Freshman of the Year. DiCello is working to make the U.S. Olympic team for the 2024 Summer Games in Paris. She was selected as an alternate for the 2021 Olympics in Tokyo. DiCello spoke to MyMCM Director of Content Joe Yasharoff in the latest episode of the MoCo's Most Famous podcast about her hopes and aspirations. Available now on MyMCMedia, Overcast, Apple Podcasts, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher, Facebook, Pocketcasts, and Twitter.  Subscribe now.

Where are the Boyds and the CMS'? The donation to the tories and the last few games // Hosted by Tim, Kisby and Sam. A Cork Hill production.Part of the talkSPORT fan network. This Podcast has been created and uploaded by The Yellow Block. The views in this Podcast are not necessarily the views of talkSPORT.Special thanks to The Yellow Block Club: Caiden Peacher, Hondo MacLean, Marc Price, Jacob Troughton, Keith Parish, George Shaw, Richard Roberts, Tom Skinner, Kieran Frew, Damon Lewis, Eddie C, Bryn Brothers, EA Cole, Ian Stimson, Mark Walkin, Rick Stollery, Nicholas Atkinson, Seamus Walker, Jack Wilbye, Samuel Sprawing, Ed Warwick, Alex Coombes // Join The Yellow Block Club at patreon.com/Theyellowblock Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is one of the most epic tales to hit the podcast with Mike Alberts and Matt Clapper completing the Across Florida 200 with a record time of 67 Hours, 15 Minutes, and 20 Seconds. The previous record was held by none other than David Goggins! This race literally crosses the state of Florida starting at the Withlacoochee Bay Trail near Inglis, Florida and ends at the St. Augustine Pier! A shout-out, not only to Mike and Matt, but also to the wives, Sam and Stephanie. These things are never possible without the support of the family and these two ladies did amazing to keep Mike and Matt moving! Not only to that, but the Boyds, this family is truly amazing. This is one of the most humbling stories you'll ever hear, and it is truly heartwarming. The call to serve and the willingness to help out is an understatement... tune in for the full story. The Across Florida 200 is a true point-to-point course that has 100 miles on the beautiful Florida Trail, 20 miles of State Park trails, 45 miles of dirt roads, 15 miles of new Rails to Trails, and only 20 miles of road.

This is the follow up. This is the encore to the original. Boyds story is not made for one part or even 2 for that matter. Yes, there is a large possibility that he and I will have to sit down for a Part 3 on the same "come-up" story. Why? Because many of you are wanting exactly what Boyd is sharing. You disagree? I think in your heart of hearts you know that's not true. You want to be free, you want to attack your life like a crazed, unlimited, unstoppable wild thing. But Boyd isn't crazy - he knows exactly what he is doing. He is calculated and dedicated in ways that the lazy and mediocre will and have always called "obsessive". What you know is that to do anything big, one has to go big. Most are not willing to cross that boundary. Most are not Boyd. We hope you enjoy this second act of the story as much as we enjoyed discussing it. Never mind my mustache, take a listen, subscribe to our channel and share with your friends and family and even that neighbor you can't stand. Follow Boyd at the following: Twitter: @boydmyers IG: @boydmyers. Web: linktr.ee/boydmyers Follow me: Twitter: @JustinLCopeland IG: @justincopeland_ Web: linktr.ee/JustinLCopeland

In this episode, the Goods from the Woods Boys are kickin' it at Disgraceland Studios with the Buckeye State's funniest export, comedian Heather Winter! We talk about Heather's hometown of Cleveland and its various local characters, dive bars, and unsettling urban legends like the mysterious and horrifying "Melonheads" that haunt Ohio's woods. We also discuss two insane news stories involving Tyson Chicken executives tearing up the sleepy college town of Fayetteville, Arkansas. Nine Inch Nails's "Closer" is our JAM OF THE WEEK! Conquer your life and tune in now!  Follow Heather on Twitter and Instagram @HeatherRWinter.  Follow the show on Twitter @TheGoodsPod.  Rivers is @RiversLangley  Sam is @SlamHarter  Carter is @Carter_Glascock Subscribe on Patreon for HOURS of bonus content and growing ALL THE TIME! http://patreon.com/TheGoodsPod Pick up a Goods from the Woods t-shirt at: http://prowrestlingtees.com/TheGoodsPod 

You will fail. You will have difficult times. When hard times come your way, what will you do? Today on Conflict Managed, Randy Boyd, University of Tennessee President, encourages us to persevere in the face of hardship. He tells us the four things he has discovered successful businesses do, settling disputes with win/win/win in mind (you'll have to listen to find out what the extra win is!), and a great program, The Birthday Lunch and Listen, where people from across the organization are celebrated and listened to as well as creating an opportunity for employees to network with each other. Randy Boyd was appointed as the 26th president of the University of Tennessee System by the UT Board of Trustees March 27, 2020, following a 16-month period as interim president. Boyd founded Knoxville-based Radio Systems Corporation, a company that produces over 4,000 pet related products under the brand names PetSafe, Invisible Fence, ScoopFree and SportDOG. The company employs more than 1,400 people with offices in six countries around the world. Boyd Sports, LLC, owned by Randy and Jenny Boyd, owns the Greeneville Flyboys and Tennessee Smokies.  The company also owns the Johnson City Doughboys, Elizabethton River Riders and operates the Kingsport Axmen. Boyd also served the state of Tennessee in numerous roles, including serving as commissioner of the Tennessee Department of Economic and Community Development and as the governor's special advisor on higher education where he was the architect for Tennessee Promise and Drive to 55. He is also the founder and chairman of the non-profit Tennessee Achieves. Randy and Jenny Boyd have dedicated their lives to giving back. In 2018, the couple formed the Boyd Foundation to further promote youth education, mental health, the arts and animal welfare. Among the Foundation's many philanthropic commitments is the Boyd Center for Business and Economic Research and the Anderson Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation's Boyd Venture Challenge seed grant program for student entrepreneurs, both through the Haslam College of Business at UT Knoxville. Boyd is the first in his family to graduate from college. He earned a bachelor's degree in business with an emphasis on industrial management from UT Knoxville. He also earned a master's degree in liberal studies with a focus on foreign policy from the University of Oklahoma. The Boyds live in Knoxville and have two children and two grandchildren. You can find Randy Boyd online at utpresident@tennessee.edu. Conflict Managed is hosted by Merry Brown and produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services. Contact us at 3PConflictRestoration@gmail.com. Our music is courtesy of Dove Pilot.

In this episode we talk all about the cancer awareness event that honored Matt and the medium experiences they have had. It was incredible talking with the Boyds and hearing their story. Please check out some of the resources they have provided us through the links below! Sarcoma Walk (Team Marching for Matt) Blood Drive (August 11) Benefit Concert: Pepperell VFW Oct. 8 https://www.ducksforcancer.com Check out our socials! https://www.ttwmpodcast.com Instagram: @teatimewithmompod Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teatimewithmompod Twitter: @teatimewithmompod

In this episode we talk all about Matt and his journey/legacy. It was incredible talking with the Boyds and hearing their story. Please check out some of the resources they have provided us through the links below! Sarcoma Walk (Team Marching for Matt) Blood Drive (August 11) Benefit Concert: Pepperell VFW Oct. 8 Check out our socials! https://www.ttwmpodcast.com Instagram: @teatimewithmompod Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teatimewithmompod Twitter: @teatimewithmompod

Boyds Gunstocks was started in 1981 by Randy Boyd and is located in Mitchell, South Dakota. Boyds Gunstocks has grown in size and scope each year, now employing over 100 people to manufacture the strong line of Boyds Gunstocks that are shipped all over the world. Dustin Knutson is a long-time employee of Boyds Gunstocks and as of January 2020 became the new co-owner. Dustin became Boyds' general manager after working his way up the ladder from the production floor. Dustin's experience and expertise ensures that Boyds' production facility remains modern, efficient, and producing high-quality gunstocks with the latest technology available. Dustin is an avid hunter as well as excellent target shooter and enjoys getting out into the outdoors as much as possible. Boyds Gunstocks is the largest aftermarket gunstock manufacturer in the world, making stocks for over 155 different gun brands and 1,200 models within those brands. “Nobody can offer anywhere near the huge selection and variety of stocks that we offer,” says Dustin. “With over 24 different stock shapes, offered in over 15 different colors, and with the multitude of stock customizations, there are literally hundreds of thousands of possible combinations that you can come up with to personalize a stock that's made just to your liking.”

We've got an awesome episode jam-packed with fun ways to learn more about the history and heritage found in Elkhart County, Indiana! Did you know that Elkhart County produces over 80% of all RVs built in the U.S. and that more than eight in ten RVs shipped in North America are made right here?! That means we host a lot of RV rallies and the FROG International Rally is one of the largest. On this episode, we learn more about the FROG (Forest River Owners Group) and the rally being held August 14-20 at the Elkhart County 4-H Fairgrounds. Then hear about the all-new passports available for the Quilt Gardens and Epic Art Adventures. The best of all - these passports are free, easy to use and are great for navigating all of the great places to see! We wrap up the episode catching up with Nick at South Side Soda Shop. Since re-opening in 1986, Nick and Charity Boyd have been running the South Side Soda Shop along with their family. The Boyds have created a legacy; the South Side Soda Shop's chili has been voted Michiana's best chili seven times; the Lemon Meringue pie won the Indiana Pie Quest Contest; the South Side Soda Shop has been featured in Gourmet Magazine and numerous regional publications, as well as the film, Lonesome Jim, directed by film star Steve Buscemi. The Soda Shop was featured in the premiere season of Food Network's “Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives” with host Guy Fieri.

On this episode of the Hunting Gear Podcast, Dan talks with Dustin Knutson of Boyds Gunstocks about the importance of a well fitting gunstock. Dustin gives a brief history of Boyds as a company and his role within the company. He also talks about how their products work, the material they use and how easy it is to find a stock customized to fit your size and shooting style. This is an excellent episode with tons of great information. Enjoy!   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of the Hunting Gear Podcast, Dan talks with Dustin Knutson of Boyds Gunstocks about the importance of a well fitting gunstock. Dustin gives a brief history of Boyds as a company and his role within the company.  He also talks about how their products work, the material they use and how easy it is to find a stock customized to fit your size and shooting style. This is an excellent episode with tons of great information. Enjoy!  

On this episode of the Hunting Gear Podcast, Dan talks with Dustin Knutson of Boyds Gunstocks about the importance of a well fitting gunstock. Dustin gives a brief history of Boyds as a company and his role within the company.  He also talks about how their products work, the material they use and how easy it is to find a stock customized to fit your size and shooting style. This is an excellent episode with tons of great information. Enjoy!  

Jacob welcomes everyone back to the show! Andrew talks about his weekend pull with his little motor. We went to Boyds and went to victory lane !!

Ryan Evans is a Creative Consultant based out in New Jersey but during the day he works as a Senior Designer at Boyds, a Philadelphia Landmark Department Store. No Macy's, No Barneys, No Century 21s, No Real Reals. No Sotheby's. No Sak's. No Farfetches. No Garmentary. No Net-A-Porter. No SSENSE. Ok I'm done. Ryan is known for his poster cut outs that are fun sticker ideas collages, you name it. The colors are bright, psychedelic, and every one of them looks like your next acid tab that you're about to take. Ryan's signature design has been able to collaborate with Pedals and Peacocks, Checks Downtown, and Zeit Campus. All of whom I've never heard of before but then there's New Balance and how I met him thru the grapevine of This Corner. I'm not trying to put Ryan in a corner but now he's my corner. Please welcome Ryan Evans to Wear Many Hats. instagram.com/rydeas instagram.com/wearmanyhatswmh instagram.com/rashadrastam rashadrastam.com wearmanyhats.com dahsar.com

Max (@MKaskons) and Dan (@Dan_McA) are back to discuss four players they feel are currently underappreciated in dynasty leagues: Tyler Boyd DJ Moore Terrace Marshall Najee Harris Tweet of the week: https://twitter.com/DFFMoose/status/1427414687864561667 Follow the show on Twitter & Instagram: @DynastyDynamic_ Credit where credit is due, we pull almost all our statistics and advanced metrics from the following sources: https://www.pro-football-reference.com https://www.pff.com/ https://www.playerprofiler.com/ 

In this episode, Jim McCloskey, MDiv '83, a lay minister and founder of Centurion, the first nonprofit dedicated to the vindication of the wrongly convicted, speaks to this question in his book, When Truth Is All You Have: A Memoir of Faith, Justice, and Freedom for the Wrongly Convicted. He shares his minister-turned-prisoner-advocate experience, which inspired author John Grisham's book, The Guardians. Listen to Jim's astonishing story of faith, justice, and liberation and how this work provides a beacon of hope for those seeking justice in a flawed judicial system.Jim McCloskey spent three years as a U.S. Naval Officer, including a year in Vietnam, subsequent to graduating from Bucknell University in 1964. He spent the next 12 years working for two different management consulting companies specializing in Japanese business affairs, the first in Tokyo and the second with the Hay Group in his hometown of Philadelphia. In 1979 Jim felt a call to leave the business world and enter the ministry. In 1983, upon graduating with a Master of Divinity degree from Princeton Theological Seminary and freeing an innocent man he met as a student chaplain at Trenton State Prison, Jim founded Centurion Ministries. After 35 years, although still a member of Centurion's Board of Trustees and still managing several cases he has been working on for years, Jim retired from the active management of Centurion's organizational affairs in May 2015. He is co-author of When Truth Is All You Have: A Memoir of Faith, Justice, and Freedom for the Wrongly Convicted, a book about Centurion's experiences with our nation's criminal justice system. Dayle Rounds (00:00:00): Have you ever been face-to-face with the truth in such a way that you just couldn't ignore it? In this episode, you will hear from Jim McCloskey, a lay minister and founder of Centurion, the first nonprofit dedicated to freeing individuals who are wrongly incarcerated. He talks with Sushama Austin-Connor about how he met a prisoner who insisted on his innocence, and why he decided to take a year off of seminary to work full-time towards this prisoner's freedom. You will not want to miss Jim's astonishing story of faith, justice, and liberation. Interlude (00:00:36): [percussion music + water droplet sound] Dayle Rounds (00:00:36): You are listening to The Distillery at Princeton Theological Seminary. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:00:40): Well, Jim, thanks so much for doing this. Princeton Seminary is obviously, for all the reasons, really excited to have this conversation with you and Continuing Education at Princeton Seminary. And me, of course, personally I'm just thrilled. And just, this is just a joy to be able to speak with you about your book and about Centurion Ministries, which means so much to the seminary and to me and to my family. Jim McCloskey (00:01:05): Well, thank you very much. So I've been looking forward to this ever since we had it scheduled with the seminary. Well, Princeton Theological Seminary has changed my life, and I might add the life of many others because it provided me with an opportunity. Although I had no idea what was around the corner of meeting the first person in whose innocence I came to believe which kicked off and inspired me to, to rather than going... ordained after I received my MDiv, which I did in 1983, to begin the work of Centurion Ministries to help free people who we believe are innocent, wrongly convicted, sentenced to life or death with pretty much no way of getting out, except for maybe our effort. Interlude (00:01:56): [water droplet sound] Sushama Austin-Connor (00:02:00): Amazing. I want to go back a little bit though, and start with life maybe right before you decided to enter seminary and going from business to seminary, what a huge deal that is. What a life changer that is. What were some of the thoughts that made you pivot from business to seminary life? Jim McCloskey (00:02:21): Well, I was 37 years old, living in the suburbs of Philadelphia and a working... employed by a management consulting firm in Philadelphia called Hay Associates, H-A-Y Associates. And my job was to build its business, its consulting business, with Japanese companies in the United States, and to eventually establish our office in Tokyo, Japan. The reason they hired me to do that was because I had spent the prior five or six years in Tokyo working for a Japanese joint venture consulting firm between American bank and the Japanese bank in aiding American firms, interested in entering the Japanese market. So I had that Japan background, so they brought me aboard. Everything was going well. Now, we're in the 1970s, from '74 to '79. I'm well in my thirties. And during that time the business was going well, I was making a good... you know, it was a nice salary position. I'm bringing in Japanese clients. But when you get underneath that surface, I was not happy with my personal life, with my conduct in my personal life. I had kind of gone off track. I was kind of like the prodigal son. And I was, for the first time in my adult life, I decided, you know, I got to start developing some spiritual element to my life 'cause that was lacking. And it was, there was a total void there. So I attended Paoli Presbyterian Church in Bailey, Pennsylvania, and the minister there, Dick Streeter, who is a Princeton Theological Seminary grad, I found his preaching compelling because this constant theme was to serve others, to wash the feet of others, particularly folks who did not have the advantages that we did in the suburbs of Philadelphia, the economic and social advantages that we did. Jim McCloskey (00:04:38): And at the same time, you know, I was hungry. The scriptures became my meat and drink rather than -- at the same time, my business aspirations were waning. I was losing interest in the business world. It wasn't real. It wasn't real to me. What became real was the truth of this, of the gospel and the scriptures. That's what was real to me. And over a period of years, slowly but surely, I was -- every Saturday, practically every Saturday night, I was in a scripture study, reading the prophets of the Old Testament and the Gospels and Paul's letters. And I saw -- this is the truth of life as I saw then. So anyway, I consulted with no one, except Dick Streeter. I didn't consult with my mother or father, although I'm very close to my family. I had a ton of friends. Because I was thinking about Dick Streeter as a minister was touching the hearts and souls of people in a transformative way, including my own. Jim McCloskey (00:05:51): I was touching nobody's heart and soul. I was touching my own pocketbook and the pocketbook of the company, but that was, that proved to be very unsatisfactory and unfulfilling. So I felt a call to follow in Dick Streeter's footsteps, go to the seminary and become an ordained, church, Presbyterian pastor. So that was what was going on within me and externally, internally and externally, that led me to go... Now I was going to go to Eastern Baptist, which would have been easier because it's only about a 20-minute ride from my house. And Dave said, no, Jim, if you're going to do this, you have to go to Princeton. That's where you're going to get the best education. And so I took his advice, sold my house on the Mainline, and came up to Princeton. One thing I did not sell was my 1976 Lincoln Continental Town Car. I just couldn't. I couldn't part with that. So I pulled up, I pulled up to Brown Hall, with my Lincoln Continental. People thought I was on the lam or something, but anyway, that's what brought me to the seminary. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:07:09): Yeah. That's awesome. So you know, Jim, I feel like I learned so much about you personally in this book. [laughter] Jim McCloskey (00:07:16): Yeah, of course, all the good, bad, the ugly, you heard a lot. [laughter] Sushama Austin-Connor (00:07:22): I learned so much! There were parts where I had to stop. I was reading it aloud to my husband, Rob, who you know, and so I was reading some parts to him, and we were like, wow, we have so much to cover. But talk to me about this idea of kind of your personal conduct that you mentioned in the book that you just referred to, and that I've heard you talk about in some other interviews that I listened to as I prepared. What was going on for you? And it wasn't atypical, I don't think, in some ways to what maybe 20-somethings go through, or the kind of risks you may take, not even knowingly really; inherently we're a little more risky in our twenties. But talk to me about that personal conduct. What was life like? What were you doing? What were you up you? Jim McCloskey (00:08:03): Well, what I was doing was I was -- again, this is in my, well, in my twenties and in my thirties. Yeah. Yeah. I was very... let's just say promiscuous. And I had relationships with women that -- I was selfish, self-centered, I used women for my own gratification. And I came to realize that this was wrong. This was immoral. I was leading an immoral life. And, that was in contrast to the way I was raised by my mother and father. And, I didn't feel good about my, I lost my self-esteem. Who am I, what is my real identity? And, you know, I had one foot in the secular world and one foot in the spiritual world, the church world. And, you know, as an example, when I told my boss at Hay Associates -- Bill Densmore was his name, great, a great human being. Jim McCloskey (00:09:05): I said, Bill -- this is 19-early-79 -- I said, "Bill, I need to talk to you about something very serious." He said, "Okay." So I went into his office and I told him that I was not only leaving Hay, but I was leaving the business world to go into ministry. He said -- I'll never forget this. His first words were, "Jim. I didn't even know you went to church." So I was two people. I was one person to the secular world and another person to the spiritual church world. And it was time for me to announce to the world who I really was, and that I considered myself to be, although a deeply flawed, but nevertheless convicted Christian. And that's -- it's about time that I showed the world who I was, and not -- I didn't hide that anymore. And once I made that announcement, then it was amazing. Jim McCloskey (00:09:58): The reaction I got from my corporate colleagues... They were very supportive, surprised, shocked, as I found out. I'm still very close to my fraternity brothers at Bucknell, every year 20 or 25 of us get together with a golf outing up at Lewisburg, Pennsylvania. And a number of them have told me that when I told them what I was doing, they were afraid that I had gone off the deep end and had lost... and they were going to lose my friendship, that somehow I was going to change, my own personality, which I didn't do. And my poor mother and father, they were, you know, they were supportive, but skeptical. You're 37, 38 years old. And you know, my mother told me, she said, Jim, you're never going to be a church pastor. You're just not cut out to do that. And as it turned out, she was right, but I didn't know that at the time. So she knew. She knew. But getting back to your question. Yes, I was -- I had descended into what I thought was an immoral life and I wanted to... I needed redemption as much as anybody else. That was part of it. And, and, and -- I wanted to really touch people's lives in a meaningful, significant transformative way. And I thought by being a church pastor, that would give me the opportunity to do that. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:11:29): To touch people. Yeah. But you weren't without religion. So growing up in your childhood, your family is Presbyterian. Can you talk a little bit about your childhood and some of the religious upbringing and also your mother's illness and how that manifests in your spiritual life, in finding redemption and finding hope. Jim McCloskey (00:11:53): Right. And that's -- thank you for bringing that up. That's a good subject to talk about a little bit. First of all, when I was in grade school -- I wanted to reclaim my boyhood faith,, because it was authentic. It was real. I was a standup Christian, young boy in grade school. That was what was most important to me. And then as soon as I hit junior high, that started going south, because the most important thing to me at that point was peer pressure. I wanted to be liked and popular. And I, you know, I let myself drift in that direction. So, another element was, in deciding to leave the business world and go into ministry, I wanted to reclaim my boyhood faith. And that was inculcated into me, by my mom and dad, who were very active in the church, that my upbringing was very in the church was very important. It was the foundation that ultimately I yearned to reclaim. So that was very important. Interlude (00:12:55): [water droplet sound] Jim McCloskey (00:12:55): When I was five years old, in 1947, my mother who was 30 years old went to bed one night in June of 1947, feeling fluish -- tired, fever, whatever, body ached. She -- Su, she woke up the next morning and was paralyzed from the waist down. It was like the polio virus hit her like a bolt of lightning, and doing some research about that, that phenomenon occurred in about 10,000 men and women across the United States. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:13:35): So out of nowhere? Jim McCloskey (00:13:37): Out of nowhere. Out of nowhere. Yeah. So, friends of our family -- now in those days, people were afraid that if they even came near our house, they would catch the virus. They would walk on the other side of the street. However, only one -- good friends of my parents, Katie and Tom Boyd, who were also the parents of my best friend, Tom Boyd. We lived around the corner from each other, and they offered to take me in, so my dad could get, could settle in and start to find the right resources to take care of Mom who was home-bound and paralyzed. And they took me in. Now, that was a great thing. That was a courageous thing because they didn't know, maybe I'll bring the polio virus into their home to attack their family. But nevertheless, they went way out on the limb and took me in for six months. Another family took my brother in. So I never forgot that -- what the Boyds did for me and what the [inaudible name] did for my brother. So that was kind of formative as well. Yeah. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:14:48): Absolutely. Absolutely. So you get -- so let's go back to Princeton Seminary. So, you get to Princeton Seminary. And I, you know, I was so familiar with some of the places that you mentioned -- Route One and Library Place -- like actually, Continuing Ed offices are now on Library Place in Adams House. Jim McCloskey (00:15:09): Oh yes. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:15:09): So I know where you are. So it was really nice to have like the visual of where everything is. So you get to Princeton Seminary and it's year two, and you're doing field education. Jim McCloskey (00:15:19): That's correct. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:15:20): And what happened? Jim McCloskey (00:15:21): All right. The first year, my junior year, I did not do field ed 'cause I just wanted to focus on the studies. In my second year, I decided to do my field education as a student chaplain at Trenton State Prison. Now, why did I do that? Why did I choose that? I don't really know why I chose that, other than I've always had an adventuresome spirit and I've never been in a prison before. Who are these people? What are they like? Sushama Austin-Connor (00:15:53): I mean, were there options, Jim? Like were you -- Jim McCloskey (00:15:53): Oh yeah. Sure. I could have been a youth pastor. I didn't want any of that. I could have been assigned to a church as a student intern in a church, a hospital. There was all kinds of options available, but I chose Trenton State Prison. Joe Ravenell, the chaplain at Trenton State Prison, also a Princeton Seminary grad, had set up a program between the seminary field education department and the prison administration every year, they would bring in six or seven Princeton Seminary students to be student chaplains for the full school year. So that's what I decided to do. And then, Joe Ravenell, he assigned me to what they call the Vroom Readjustment Unit, which is a real euphemistic term for the maximum security -- people who are sent to the Vroom Readjustment Unit, they had been in trouble in whatever state prisons in New Jersey they had come from. So they put the bad boys in that prison for however long a punishment they were to serve. And that's where I was assigned. And the reason Joe -- I said, Joe, why did you send me there to this day? I'm good friends with him. He said, I'll tell you why I sent you there. Because you were cocky that I wanted to bring you down a couple of notches, one or two. And I said, well, you did a good job there, Joe. But anyway, to the Vroom Building I went. There for the -- now we're talking about September of 1980, which was the beginning of my middler year at the seminary. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:17:45): And then you go there with another seminarian, and you guys are... Jim McCloskey (00:17:51): There were two of us and Joseph Checa who was a friend of mine who also lived in Brown Hall. Joe assigned him to two cell blocks and assigned me to two cell blocks. And so we would go there together. We would drive down at my very comfortable plush Lincoln Continental Towncar [laughter] which by the way, I got about seven miles per gallon. [inaudible] But the first day we went down there in September of 1980, I'm 37, 38. I've been in Vietnam. I've been all over the world. And Joseph was 28. He'd been -- he's had some secular experience, but we were both scared to death. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:18:38): Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, yeah. Jim McCloskey (00:18:38): Because, you know, they tell you, they tell stories, they are myths, this myth, that -- don't stay, don't get too close to their selves. They're locked in their cell. And we go down a cell block from cell to cell. We're wearing the collar. I looked like an Irish Catholic priest. And you just go cell to cell. You just want to make friends. And you know, they don't get any visitors, by and large. Interlude (00:19:03): And are you wearing a collar because they, like -- Princeton suggested it or you just decided to, or... Jim McCloskey (00:19:10): No, Joe Ravenell. No, it was part of the uniform, if you will, that Joe Ravenell wanted us to wear, as being student chaplains. We pulled up to the parking lot of the prison, you know -- a fence with all concertina wire. And it was such an intimidating, forbidding building. I said to Joseph, let's have a word of prayer. So we held hands, we asked God to give us a spirit of calmness and courage. And, that didn't happen. That was an unfulfilled prayer. Anyway, we walked in there and that began my student chaplaincy at Trenton State Prison and encountering a life-changing opportunity, a life-changing event where I met... One of the 40 men on the two cell blocks I was assigned was a man by the name of Jorge de Los Santos. And, he was... So I'd go, you know, cell to cell. And he was gregarious. He was friendly. He put me at ease. He was very open-hearted. He talked about himself and everything that he had done in the past, which was not murder. He was in prison for a Newark, New Jersey murder. He was convicted of an attempted robbery, which ended up to be a fatal shooting of the proprietor of a used car lot in Newark. And he was the only one, by the way, who was proclaiming his innocence. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:20:45): I mean, I'm wondering too, before you even hear his story, is he standing out because of that openness? How, why is he standing out more than the rest of the guys on that floor? Or was that once you heard the story? Jim McCloskey (00:20:58): That's a good point. There was something about him. We just clicked. Our personalities just clicked because he was an engaging personality. He was friendly, open, funny. But he would also speak from his heart. He was married to Elena, a Native American Cherokee. And, you know, from day one, he said, Jim, you know, they caught me, Jim. And he said, I didn't do what I'm here for. I'm an innocent man. So that got my attention. But I also, at the same time, you know, I was under the -- oh, they all say they're innocent. Well, first of all, that's a canard. They don't all say they're innocent. He was the only one of the 40 who did say he was innocent. So, but anyway, to answer your question, he was just a gregarious, very human -- just the opposite of what I imagined a hardened murder convict would look like, or be like. Jim McCloskey (00:22:06): He's in his cell, hot outside, standing in front of his cell, cell bars. I could see him perfectly, standing in his shorts with his thongs on, with long brown hair, down to his shoulders. And 'Elena' was tattooed on his heart, name of his wife. And I'm standing there in my priestly garb. And, you know, we just... I had to be careful because I couldn't spend too much time with him, because that would create some problems with other inmates. And by the way, my reception there was surprisingly friendly. Most of the inmates in their cells were -- they wanted somebody to talk to. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:22:53): Of course. Of course. Jim McCloskey (00:22:53): They wanted a friend, they wanted somebody who didn't judge them or in any way be critical of them, just to basically listen. There was a lot, they all wanted to say -- 'cause nobody would listen to them. [crosstalk] It was not hard for me to feel comfortable every day I went there, nor to establish some relationships and rapport with most of the inmates. New Speaker (00:23:22): [water droplet sound] Sushama Austin-Connor (00:23:24): So in those first meetings, Chiefy [de Los Santos] is sort of pushing you and challenging you and telling you his story. And you're getting -- I hear you say, "Well, I didn't believe him of course, because who would believe him?" But what changes you or changes your mind in how he is sharing the stories? He's saying, you know, actually, no, I'm actually innocent. Jim McCloskey (00:23:45): Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, first of all, he wasn't pushing me, but he was -- that's all he wanted -- he only wanted to talk about two things: his innocence and his wife, Elena. And he spent a lot of time. I mean -- I actually have chills right now -- because he loved her, and she was completely devoted to him. She was a hair salon person up in Newark. She had three kids by a prior relationship that she was, you know, raising. And she would visit him twice a week, for limited visits. She was an incredible woman who I got to know and really have a nice relationship with, a good friend. Jim McCloskey (00:24:31): But anyway, up until hitting up the cell block, I never had any involvement with the criminal justice system whatsoever. I was never asked to be on a jury. I'd never been in a courthouse before. I knew absolutely nothing. So I was bringing with me what turned out to be a complete ignorance and naiveté about our criminal justice system, in that I thought police and prosecutors were very honorable men and women who were serving the community. It was a great noble service of catching criminals and putting them away. And surely they would never suborn perjury or lie themselves, or... They wanted to catch the real people who did this, not innocent people. And the same with the judges. I held those positions -- police, prosecutors, judges -- in the highest esteem from my suburban mainline perch. And as far as I was concerned, they were there to protect and serve -- at least my white community in the suburbs. So anyway, I found it very hard to believe two things. Number one, that he was innocent. Number two, not only was he saying he was innocent, he was saying the Newark, the Essex county prosecutor's office in Newark framed him, knowingly framed him. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:26:05): Right. Right. Jim McCloskey (00:26:08): I said, "So Chiefy, are you telling me that the prosecutor himself knew that his witnesses were lying and he brought them in just to get a conviction?" He said, "That's exactly what I'm telling you." I said, "Why would they care about you?" He was a heroin addict. And he had a number of drug-related arrests, never spent any time in prison, but he was in and out of the local jails for drugs. And he was a full-blown addict, off and on over those -- you know, he was 28 years old when he got convicted for this crime. I said, "Chiefy, why should they even believe -- why should they be conspiring --" [crosstalk] Jim McCloskey (00:26:51): You're a throw away. He said "That's why!" He said, "Because I was an easy prey. I was an easy target for the police -- to arrest and make them look good and clearing a murder -- and for the prosecutors to get a conviction, to make their trial record good. Slowly but surely, over the next couple of months, we would talk about this. And we became close. I mean, I couldn't wait to get down there to talk to him. And secretly -- I didn't tell Joe Ravenell or anyone else -- I gave him permission to call me at 72 Library Place. Thanksgiving comes. And I said, "Look, Chiefy, I've heard your story time immemorial, you've gone, we've gone over it. Many times. I need your trial. I want to read your trial transcripts. And by the way, we were told by both the administration and Joe Ravenell -- don't get involved [crosstalk] whether it's personal or their case work. Jim McCloskey (00:27:57): That's a no-no. If you do, you're out of here, banned from the prison. But I was so provoked by the possibility that he might be what he's saying he is. I said, "Chiefy, there are two sides to every story. I want to get -- so I got ahold of his trial transcripts. That took some work, but I got ahold of them. And I took them home over Thanksgiving of 1980. That's all I did during the Thanksgiving holiday was read 2000 pages of transcripts. I was obsessed with them. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:28:30): Yes. Jim McCloskey (00:28:30): Totally into this. And so I learned that whatever -- all the details he gave me were born out by the trial transcripts. So it came to really provoke me and to say, I'm taking it to another level. Maybe this guy is innocent. All right. So come back from Thanksgiving. He knows I've read the trial transcripts. He's nervous as a cat when I approach his cell. He said, "What do you think?" I said, "Well, Chiefy, you know, you know, it backs up everything you've been telling me over the prior couple of months. He said, "Well, let me ask you." He said, "Jim, I answered a million of your questions over the last couple of months. I have a question for you." And I gulped. I said, "Oh boy." [inaudible]. Jim McCloskey (00:29:20): He said, "Do you believe I'm innocent?" And I said, "Yeah, I do believe you're -- I don't know you're innocent, but I do believe, I believe you, Chiefy." I said, "I don't know if I believe that the prosecutors framed you, but I do believe you're innocent. Then he said to me, and it took me completely aback, he said, "What are you going to do about it?" I said, "What do you mean, what am I going to do about it? I'm a... I don't know anything about criminal justice or murders or courts of law, investigation. I'm a former businessman, and I'm now at the seminary studying church history and scriptures and... Sushama Austin-Connor (00:30:01): Becoming a minister! Jim McCloskey (00:30:01): And he said, "I've been on my knees for the last seven years, praying to God to bring somebody to me, to help free me. And whether you know it or not, and whether you like it or not, you're that man. God has sent you to my cell to liberate me, to bring me home to Elena. I'm asking you -- God works -- He said, "What are you going to do? Go back to your seminary? And, in that nice, secure little environment and pray for me? That's not going to get me out. God works through human hands. And it's your hands that I believe God has assigned to get me out of here, to free me." Jim McCloskey (00:30:49): I said, "Well, let me think about that, Chiefy." But it stunned me. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:30:55): Yeah. It stunned you. It's a stunning ask, or [crosstalk]. Jim McCloskey (00:30:59): It was a real challenge. He was challenging my faith. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:30:59): Yes, that's what I'm thinking, right. Jim McCloskey (00:31:03): You claim to be a man of God. Well, what are you going to do, leave an innocent man behind and just go about your business, like, I don't even exist anymore? I mean, it was, it really got me. Were it not for that challenge, Su, I don't think I would have worked for him. He made me, he compelled me. So I got back to the seminary. And I'm praying. And again, I'm consulting with nobody, because nobody's going to believe this. And so, but I go to the scriptures and I opened them up to the book of Isaiah, where Isaiah is talking about how people go to law and they lie. And there is no justice. Truth has fallen from the public squares. The Lord wondered why there was no one to intervene to bring about justice, to find the truth. And it bothered the Lord. And so I saw that and I'm saying, is this a sign that I'm to intervene on behalf of Chiefy? I felt that it was. And so, that was a turning point, in addition to his challenge, and other factors. I said, you know, I think I'm going to take a year off and work on his behalf. I believe he's innocent. And that's what I did. That's what I did. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:32:21): That's what you did. At that point, you're founding Centurion at this point... Jim McCloskey (00:32:22): No, I'm not founding Centurion. All I'm doing is taking a year off from school. I had completed three of the six semesters for a Masters of Divinity. Now we're in February of 1981. Okay. And I decided to take a year off, independent leave, from the seminary and work full-time to see if I can free him, and I could move the ball forward. And now, you know, you're a parent. Imagine -- now a year and a half before this, I told my mom and dad, I was gonna leave the business world and go into the ministry. And now here I am a year and a half later. Can you imagine if your eldest son, if your eldest son, came to you and said, Su and Rob, I've decided to take a year off from school. And I'm going to -- I believe that a former Newark heroin addict is innocent of murder, and I'm going to investigate the case and try and free him. Well, that was very, very unsettling to my parents... Sushama Austin-Connor (00:33:33): To say the least. Yeah, right. I don't know what I would have said. Jim McCloskey (00:33:37): Well, I'll tell you what my mother said. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:33:39): What did she say? Jim McCloskey (00:33:39): My mother said, "Jimmy, this is going to be Vietnam all over again. I could never sleep for that year you were over there. [crosstalk] And now, you're going to go investigate a murder, which you know nothing about, in a city like Newark, which, you know, you've never been there before, for God's sake. What do you know about it? And I'm going to worry about you every single night." Now, I had not thought of that. I didn't put myself in my mother's -- Sushama Austin-Connor (00:34:07): No, of course. But it's natural. The reaction is natural. Jim McCloskey (00:34:07): I said, "Mother, I completely understand, but I got to do it. I just have to do it." And so ultimately they supported me. But they were obviously very concerned for my safety. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:34:20): Of course. Of course. Jim McCloskey (00:34:22): So then, I announced to Jim McCord [crosstalk] -- when you take an independent leave of absence, you get an exit interview tp the president of the seminary. At that time, it was Jim McCord. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:34:38): That's so intimidating. Actually, I looked up the dates just to see who the president was at that time. And I was like, how intimidating is that? You had to go see Jim McCord? Jim McCloskey (00:34:45): Did you know him at all? Or have you ever had any encounters with him? Sushama Austin-Connor (00:34:52): I just know of him, and that's [inaudible] Jim McCloskey (00:34:52): Right. He had this deep voice. It was like God was talking down to you, you know? So, I'm ushered into his office for this exit interview and..."Jim, what church are you -- where are you gonna -- what church you go to serve while you're off?" So then I explained to him what I was doing. [laughter] Now, what I didn't know. So he had a button at his desk. He would press that button. And that was his secretary's signal to come in and get this person out of there. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:35:24): Oh no! Jim McCloskey (00:35:24): Oh yeah. So, no sooner do I tell him what I'm going to do than I'm ushered out of his office. And he sends me over to Dean Mass's office and I told him the same thing and they both want to know -- are you sure what you're doing is legal? Is that legal, Jim? I said, yeah, it's legal. Nothing illegal about it. Anyway, that was my exit. And then I moved in -- because when you have a leave of absence, you can't live in the seminary. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:35:55): The dorms, right. Jim McCloskey (00:35:55): So I moved out of Brown Hall and then found a place to live on 72 Library Place. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:36:01): So cool. Yeah. Jim McCloskey (00:36:02): It was a home owned and occupied by a lovely, delightful octogenarian, Mrs. Yateman, and in exchange for me doing errands for her, I had a second floor bedroom, free of cost, which turned out to be the first headquarters for Centurion Ministry. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:36:20): Wow. Jim McCloskey (00:36:21): My bedroom in that home. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:36:22): In that home -- on Library Place. Yeah. Jim McCloskey (00:36:26): When you turn onto library place, it's the first house fully facing Library Place. 72. It's a white Victorian home. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:36:37): Yeah. I know the street. I passed by -- pre-COVID I passed by all the time. Yeah. So talk... Finish your thought and talk about the end of Chiefy's case. And then I want to get to some of your work when Centurion is kind of up and running. Jim McCloskey (00:36:53): Right. Right. Well, so I took that year off and ended up doing several things. I became the investigator. And so I did two things. One is -- well, three things. One is to investigate the case. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:37:08): Like yourself. Like you are [crosstalk] ...to be clear, because I was so impressed with your true crime investigative skills. Jim McCloskey (00:37:17): Well, you know, it just, you know, it... All it is, is common sense, you know. You know, you just knock on people's doors and you're trying to get them to -- one leads to another, you know. My main purpose, one of the main things was, there were two... Chiefy was convicted based on two prosecution witnesses. One of them was Pat Cuccillo, who claimed that when he was driving his tow truck by the used car lot, he heard shots and he saw Chiefy and another man he identified as Lamont Harvey (nickname Grasshopper) flee the used car lot. So it was an eye witness, the claim to see Chiefy and this other man flee. So they arrest Chiefy based on that eyewitness account. Then, now he's in the Essex County jail awaiting trial, based on that one eyewitness account, and what the police did, which I was able to prove, to the satisfaction of a federal judge, they placed a career criminal Richard Dellasante on that tier, to enable Richard Dellasante to talk with Chiefy, and come into the court, to his trial and say that Chiefy confessed the crime to him. It's called the jailhouse confession. So those two, those were the two witnesses against him. Jim McCloskey (00:38:38): There was a lot of work to do in terms of investigation. And I finally met up with Richard Dellasante and... About a year after I started this work... And he was in the Hudson County jail at the time. And I visited with him for two days straight. And by that time, he had agreed to talk to me and tell me the whole story. He was a lifelong informant for the Essex County prosecutor's office. He testified at trial that he's never testified in any other situation against anybody. He did this because what Chiefy did was a bad thing. And he thought he should come forward. When in fact, he had testified in numerous other cases, both before the Chiefy del Los Santos trial and after. He was a professional snitch. And the payment for all his different testimonies by the prosecutor was -- he never went to prison. They would excuse his crimes. So he was free to be out there, to be a thief and an arsonist. And all this, that, and the other, he did all sorts of crimes. But he would do the bidding of the prosecutor, particularly this one detective in the prosecutor's office, Ronnie Donahue. He would -- Donahue was his handler. And it was Donahue put them on the tier with Chiefy and told him what to do, and he would do it. But he got tired of being their pawn. He just got tired of them using him for 10 years of doing this work. And so also, he had testified in the same manner, jailhouse confession against his first cousin, Danny Dellasante. He put Danny away another murder. [crosstalk] Sushama Austin-Connor (00:40:30): There's so many characters. Jim McCloskey (00:40:32): Yeah. And I got to know the Dellasante family. Dotty Dellasante, Danny's mother, and his aunt. Richard [inaudible]. Anyway, she kept asking Richard, please talk to this Jim McCloskey, you got to talk to him. If you help him out with Chiefy, maybe that'll help free my son, your first cousin, Danny Dellasante. He resisted for a year. And he finally agreed to talk to me. And then he told me the whole story. And so, he led us to other cases where he had in fact testified and helped the police prior to Chiefy's case. And then, we got an evidentiary hearing, and Pat Cuccillo, I met him. And, you know, one of the things that the trial prosecutor, Kevin Kelly, told the jury was, "Ladies --" (this was the summation), "Ladies and gentlemen, you heard Pat Cuccillo's eye witness account. You heard Richard Dellasante. So I think these two men, they didn't know each other, that they independently, they come forward and they give this incriminating evidence against Mr. del Los Santos. They're very credible. There's no reason to think that they're lying." Jim McCloskey (00:41:41): When in fact, my investigation, I discovered -- and it's got the documentation to prove it -- Richard del Los Santos and Pat Cuccillo went to grade school together. They were fast friends. They were both drug addicts. They would shoot up together, you know, so we were able to establish that. So we have an evidentiary hearing in federal court in March of 1983. Now in February of '82, I finished my one-year leave of absence. I returned to the seminary to finish my Master of Divinity degree. And I found a great lawyer to work for, with me, on behalf of Chiefy. Paul Castalero. He was instrumental in freeing Chiefy with me. And Paul, leading up to the evidentiary hearing in March of '83, the judge, the federal judge gave Paul authority to go into the prosecutor's files and see what information [crosstalk] files that might be exculpatory or go towards this, a bad conviction. Jim McCloskey (00:42:49): And Paul discovered in Kevin Kelly's own handwriting in the file, he was the trial prosecutor, that he said Richard Dellasante had a habit of giving testimony. So he knew [crosstalk] that he had given that testimony in prior instances, and he had him do it anyhow. He hadn't yet under direct examination, Dellasante, under Kevin Kelly's direct examination, testified that he's never done this before. Kelly knew he was lying. He wanted to present him as a, you know, as just a concerned citizen, even though he's in county jail. And I talked with Kevin Kelly on two different occasions. And on the second occasion when I told him, "Hey, Kevin, I still think it might not -- I tell you that I'm working for Chiefy... If I can convince Kevin Kelly that through no fault of his own, that he convicted an innocent man, maybe he can help me free the man he convicted. Jim McCloskey (00:43:51): That was my idealistic naiveté. Well, when I told him what I had on... I met him one time, then a year later I met him another time. I telephoned him. And he got very, very angry with me and said, "Jim, I don't care if 10 people confess that they did this crime and not Chiefy -- he's guilty." And he hung up on me. But, at the evidentiary hearing, Paul Castalaro really unmasked him for his [crosstalk]. The judge found that as a fact in his opinion, which ended up freeing and exonerating Chiefy in July of 1983. So by July of 1983, Chiefy was free and exonerated. I had finished my MDiv degree. And... but by that time I had met two or actually three other New Jersey inmates who Chiefy introduced me to, by the way, in whose innocence I had come to believe. So now I have a choice. Do I get -- do I go on and get ordained as a church pastor? Or do I set up a nonprofit organization, which I ultimately called Centurion Ministries to work to free innocent people at present? Obviously I chose the latter and set up Centurion. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:45:19): So from the beginning, you take on these two cases and... Talk more about like the trajectory for Centurion. Jim McCloskey (00:45:27): First of all, I named it Centurion after the centurion at the foot of the cross in the gospel of Luke, who looked up in chapter 23, verse 47, and said, "Surely this one was innocent," looking up at the crucified Christ. That's where the name comes from. So, but anyway, yeah, so I set up and I'm still working out of Mrs. Yateman's house, and long story short, of the three people whose cases I took on after Chiefy was freed, by 19 -- by November of '86, I was able to free two of those three people. The third one I freed two years later, 1989, but the seminal case that really puts Centurion and me on the map, on the map, was Paul Castalero, again, and I, he's a solo practitioner out of Hoboken. He and I worked for Nate Walker. Nate was convicted and given life plus 50 years for an Elizabeth, New Jersey sexual assault and kidnapping, and Paul and I together met with the Union County and Elizabeth, New Jersey, we met with a senior prosecutor there, and we had several discussions. Some of them pretty intense because by this time, 11 years after Nate was convicted in '75, this is now '86, 1986. We provoked that senior prosecutor in that office. We said, look, 11 years ago, when the victim was assaulted in this manner, a rape kit was taken from her. And there's a vaginal swab taken from her as part of the rape kit. If semen is on that swab, if you could find that swab. Now this is before DNA now, right? Sushama Austin-Connor (00:47:27): Yep. I remember. Jim McCloskey (00:47:30): Can you send that to a lab to see if they could determine the blood type of the semen on that swab? And he agreed to do that. Richard Reibart was his name. Richard Reibart, 11 years earlier, was the prosecutor that put Nate Walker away. Now he's a senior executive in that office and I give him full credit. He found that swab and he sent it down the FBI crime lab and they came back and said, the donor of this semen on that swab has blood type B. Nate Walker, and the victim, have blood type A, because some of her vaginal fluids might've got mixed up there. So it completely exonerated Nate Walker. We freed him, we freed him in November, early November of '86. And, I'm still working alone out of Mrs. Yateman's house. This got us a lot of publicity nationwide because at that time, very few --I mean, this was unheard of, exonerating innocent -- Sushama Austin-Connor (00:48:40): No, 'cause it's pre- what many people may know of, innocence movements and the innocence projects. Yeah. Jim McCloskey (00:48:50): Exactly. So, next thing I know Nate Walker and I are on the Today Show with Bryant Gumbel. And this was obviously seen nationwide. Now letters are pouring in from all over, from state prisons all over the United States because nobody else was doing this at the time. And, asking me, Centurion, to help free them like you did Mr. Walker. And not only that, but... And also Kate Germand, who is still, was my lifelong partner at Centurion. She had just moved to New York with her husband and she read about the Nate Walker exoneration in New York Times, she saw a photo of me in my bedroom with transcripts spilling all over the place. And she said, this man needs help. And besides that, she had always fancied herself as an investigator. She, as we were in our generation, we were raised on Perry Mason. She idolized Paul Drake, the investigator for Perry Mason, not Perry Mason himself. So anyway, she contacted me and here we are some 30 years later still working together. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:50:15): [crosstalk] so many people over the years, working with you, with the passion and the vocational pull to this work for people who are around you as well is incredible. Jim McCloskey (00:50:26): Absolutely. We, you know, in the movie The Field of Dreams that said, if you build it, they will come. You know, so many good, talented, dedicated justice-seeking people, volunteers, staff members. You know, Centurion now... Let's see, Kate joined me in January of '87, 13 plus... Some 33, 34 years later. We have a staff of 14 paid employees, lawyers, investigators, case development people. We get over 1200 letters a year from people asking us to, to serve on their, to work on their cases. Now, not all of them are innocent, of course. The vetting process is a real large undertaking. But anyway, yes, so, so many -- and not only that, but you know, we've gone national and have been, ever since Nate Walker was freed, people who saw Nate and me on the Today Show, one of them contacted me, Ozell Brandley, his brother Clarence was on Texas death row, was going to be executed three months later. And that got the attention of Kate and me. And we decided, we got the record and transcripts and all that. So we got to do something here. I've never been to Texas, never worked at death row case. We just went where the current took us, and the current took us to Texas. And then many other states after that. Interlude (00:51:59): [water droplet sound] Sushama Austin-Connor (00:52:01): How many exonerees are there? What [inaudible] Jim McCloskey (00:52:06): We have taken, since I started this work in 1981, early '81, really, we have freed 65 people. And collectively -- we only take cases where somebody has been given a life or death sentence for either a murder and/or sexual assault. They're the only cases we take on, the most serious cases. Well, we've taken a total of a hundred cases on since the beginning. 65 are free. Collectively, those 65 people have spent 1,388 years falsely combined. We are currently working for 20 -- so we have finished, we have finished 79 cases, 65 have been free. And the other 14 or so or 15 have not. We did not free them. Six of those 15 or so, we determined that our original assessment of innocence, after we had fully vetted the case and began our investigation, we made a mistake. We came to believe they were guilty. We dropped them. Jim McCloskey (00:53:26): And you know, several died in prison before we were able to complete our work on their behalf. And then five, although we still believe in their innocence, we had to leave them behind, because we were not able to develop enough new evidence or find a good legal basis to go back to court with. Two were executed; one in Louisiana, one in Virginia. So... but of the 79 cases we've concluded, 65 were freed. That's a little over 80%. The other 21 cases we're still working, Centurion is still working. You know, of the 65 that we have freed, 41 are African-American, 20 are white, and 4 Hispanics, including Chiefy. Of the 21 we're currently working for, 19 are African-American and one is a Native American out of Minneapolis. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:54:27): Yeah. And that actually takes me straight to -- what has this taught you about the justice system, where race is concerned? Jim McCloskey (00:54:34): Well, in, in my view of 40 years of work, in a hundred cases, in addition to thousands of pleas for help all over this country, there is no question in my mind that the racial bias and prejudice on the part of juries, police, prosecutors accounts, or is one important reason, for African-Americans in particular to bear the brunt of being falsely accused and wrongly convicted. You know, you take as an example, several examples, I'd like to point out in that regard.Since 1989, the National Exoneration Research Center, they document all the exonerations that have taken place in America since 1989. 1065 mostly men have been exonerated. In other words, they got convicted of murder, sent away for life or death, and later were exonerated, just like we exonerated Chiefy de Los Santos. 50% of those exonerees are African-American. Same thing with sexual assaults. 360-some men have been exonerated from life sentences for sexual assault. 60% African-American. So people of color bear the brunt of this, because, you know, I believe that there is a strong undercurrent, implicit, explicit, both, of racial that, you know, first of all, these folks have no resources. Jim McCloskey (00:56:29): They are poor. They have no way to defend themselves. There's a pre-- when, if you're a person of color sitting in that dock, and you have an all-white jury or a mostly white jury, the presumption of guilt is going to be there. And that's going to be a very difficult invisible barrier to overcome from the outset. As far as death row, 170 men, and a few women, have been exonerated off of death row, and 50% of them are African American. So it goes on and on. You take New York City, the stop-and-frisk policy. For 18 years, it was legal for police officers throughout New York City to stop people on the street and frisk them. They did that to 5 million people over 18 years. Now, 80% of those who were stopped and frisked are brown or black people. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:57:27): That's incredible. Jim McCloskey (00:57:32): I mean, you know, so it's, it's there. And, oh, sorry. That's not even to mention all these fatal shootings of innocent black citizens by white police officers all over the country. I mean, my view and I -- I include myself in this -- we, the Caucasian folks like myself... There's still a segregation between African American people and their social environment. I'm talking about regular law abiding people where, you know, regardless of the social economic status, and white people, we don't, we don't intermingle very much. And because of that, and you know, I think we're, we -- whites -- are raised, are programmed. We're raised with these erroneous assumptions and fears and expect-- We categorize people of a different race in a way that's wrong and unfair. We falsely profile them. I don't think there's any question, given what I've just tried to explain, that law enforcement people have within them both explicitly and implicitly, this racial bias that triggers them to come down on the Black population, much more than [inaudible]. There is systemic racism across America. It always has been, you know, for 400 years, and there might be a greater awareness now because of these fatal uncalled-for murders. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:59:21): And video. And evidence. Jim McCloskey (00:59:22): But now if it weren't for the videos, nothing would have happened. Sushama Austin-Connor (00:59:29): Earlier, you touched on it a couple of times, I think what is always startling to me, and it was an important part of your book too, is the presumption that white folks, good white folks, and other white folks have that the system's fair, then it's like just fair. And that all is fair. And that you must've done something. You must've done something. I think it's that -- it's changing those hearts and minds that is so difficult. Like, no, the system's actually not fair. Let's, let's start there as the baseline. Jim McCloskey (01:00:01): Well, we have two different perceptions of the criminal justice system, based on our own human experience. We, and I'm generalizing, but it's true. We, whites have not been abused generally by law enforcement. They're out there to protect and serve. And we whites have no idea what's going on in communities of color with the interaction and the interfacing between police and the communities of color. We have no idea about that. And you know, another thing is, another thing is, that... In my work, Su, the last 40 years, I bet I've been in a thousand Black homes, every major city in the United States. I don't care where it is. South LA, south Dallas, Harlem... Newark. And I know from my conversations with African-Americans in their homes, that... what goes on, and the heavy hand of the police that they've experienced. And you can even be of a higher socioeconomic status, and... You know, I know of no white family, and I know a lot of white families in my world, not one that I'm aware of have their parents ever sat their kids down and said, if you get stopped by the police, here's how you must conduct yourself. Otherwise, you're going to be in danger right. Now, I was watching a Major League Baseball racial, race seminar by Black baseball players, not too long ago. And one of them pointed out that when white people get stopped by a police officer for a motor vehicle violation versus black people get stopped. We have two different objectives. The white person is going to be very nice and polite to prevent from getting a ticket. The Black person is going to be very nice and polite to save their lives, to save their lives. And that is, I don't have to tell you, but you know, that's a conscious thing that African American families have to contend with, regardless of their station in life. We have no idea. We don't know. We're ignorant about that, talking about whites. So, you know, I've had the good fortune. I'm no expert, I don't claim to be an expert, but I do have more experience in this field and this interaction with, between communities of color and myself than most of my white friends do. And they just don't get it. They don't know. [inaudible] Sushama Austin-Connor (01:02:52): They don't get it. Yeah. Yeah. That's an important point. Jim, one final question. We, our audience is gonna want to know what, what can we do? What can we as clergy and faith leaders and people interested in you and your work and in Centurion and in freeing people who deserve to be freed, what can we do for Centurion? And what can we do to learn more about this justice system that is so different for so many of us? Jim McCloskey (01:03:26): Well, first of all, I read the Philadelphia Inquirer every day. That's where I'm from, that's my home paper. And if you... It's just, you know, Philadelphia is a war zone. The violence down there and fatal shootings. And I mean, it's just, it's out of control. But what I'm trying to say is, read the newspapers with an open mind, understand what's going on in your local community. One example could be, there have been a number of progressive men and women who have been elected district attorneys. As an example, in Baltimore, in Chicago, in St. Louis, in Boston, in Orlando, there are a number of Black women who have been, Black women have been elected as prosecutors, county prosecutors, and what have they done there? And it is a -- that's a tough job if you're Black and you're a woman. And the police, the white police unions and the white police entrenched, you know, you have your hands full, because they resist you with all their might and abase you, and all of that. Jim McCloskey (01:04:56): They're having a lot of problems. I'm thinking particularly of Kim Gardener out in St. Louis. Boy, she's going through hell, dealing with the police unions there. And even Larry Krasner down in Philadelphia, a white male. He having a -- he's a progressive, reform-minded prosecutor, but what's going on there in those offices, and in other offices around the country, they've recognized that this wrongful conviction, this is a phenomena that is far wider, deeper than we ever... Our criminal justice system is flawed, to a far greater extent than we ever imagined. So even district attorneys are setting up what they call conviction integrity units, to review, a separate unit within the office, to review former convictions where an innocent person may have been convicted. I mean, Larry Krasner down in Philadelphia, when he took office three and a half years ago, he set up a conviction integrity unit, and they have freed and exonerated 17 men who have been wrongly convicted of Philadelphia murders. Jim McCloskey (01:06:09): And I might add 16 of the 17 are African-American. It happens that way. But what people can do, you know, who am I to tell people how to vote? But, you know, voting is so important. If you have a choice between a progressive-minded candidate for the local district attorney and an entrenched, "tough-on-crime," old school person. Look at that very carefully. If you want justice and you want change, then you got to go with a progressive person. You just have to. Lives are at stake. Lives are at stake. And it's so important who we, the electorate put in authority in the criminal justice system. That's one thing. Now, as far as Centurion, you know, look, when this pandemic is past us, one way that they can -- we -- I'll just flat out say it -- we depend on financial benefactions from the public. If you think that you want to explore the possibility of giving financial support to us, just go on our, you know, just Google Centurion Ministries and find out all about us. Go to our website, and then you make your determination, if you think this is something that deserves your support. As far as volunteers go, I don't think we're -- we're not taking any more volunteers at this time, because of the pandemic. But when that ceases, if you're a local person, local being in the Princeton area, then you might want to, you might want to contact Centurion with the idea of becoming a volunteer. Right now, we have 20 volunteers, from all walks of life, you know, so there are a lot of different ways that you can support not only Centurion, but those reform-minded, people who want to do who want to make change. Sushama Austin-Connor (01:08:08): [percussion music begins] Awesome. You're a delight. We salute you. We salute your work and your ministry, Jim, this is just a gift. Centurion is a gift. And I'll say personally that I don't really know a more worthy cause to support in helping people and in saving people's lives. And we're just really -- Princeton Seminary is proud of you. And, you know, I just find the work so compelling. I hope people read the book. I hope people get to know what you're doing and what your amazing staff is doing. And we just salute you and your ministry and your amazing, fascinating life. Jim McCloskey (01:08:46): Well, you know, thank you, Su. And I appreciate that very much. There would be no Centurion Ministries were it not for Princeton Theological Seminary. Dayle Rounds (01:08:56): You've been listening to The Distillery. Interviews are conducted by me, Dayle Rounds. Sushama Austin-Connor (01:09:00): And me, Sushama Austin-Connor. Shari Oosting (01:09:03): And I'm Shari Oosting. Amar Peterman (01:09:06): I'm Amar Peterman, and I am in charge of production. Dayle Rounds (01:09:08): Like what you're hearing? Subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or your preferred podcast app. The Distillery is a production of Princeton Theological Seminary's Office of Continuing Education. You can find out more at thedistillery.ptsem.edu. Thanks for listening. [water droplet sound]  

Abandoned for well over a decade, the Winderbourne Mansion in Boyds, Maryland is a decaying reminder of a tragic past.  Once belonging to the wealthy Totten family, things quickly took a turn as their children died.  Is this property cursed?   Follow Us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/crimesandwitchdemeanors Submit your feedback or personal stories to crimesandwitchdemeanors@gmail.com  Like Us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/crimesandwitchdemeanors  Episode Transcript: Available below the sources in the show notes Visit the website: https://www.crimesandwitchdemeanors.com  Main podcast illustration by GiAnna Ligammari: https://gialigammari.wixsite.com/portfolio    Sources: 6 Jun 1915, 14—Evening Star at Newspapers.com. (n.d.). World Collection. Retrieved February 8, 2021, from http://newscomwc.newspapers.com/image/332078312/?terms=%22Winderbourne%22%2BNOT%2BKennels&pqsid=x3NN_YD5pyhW_nx6SDusZg:1063000:1697821625   7 Nov 1901, Page 15—Evening Star at Newspapers.com. (n.d.). World Collection. Retrieved February 8, 2021, from http://newscomwc.newspapers.com/image/207674218/?terms=%22Edith%2BTotten%22&pqsid=x3NN_YD5pyhW_nx6SDusZg:489000:332569778   17 Nov 1927, 1—The Times Dispatch at Newspapers.com. (n.d.). World Collection. Retrieved February 8, 2021, from http://newscomwc.newspapers.com/image/615380246/?terms=Dr.%2BEdith%2BTotten&pqsid=x3NN_YD5pyhW_nx6SDusZg:12000:1740180449   22 Mar 1908, 6—Evening Star at Newspapers.com. (n.d.). World Collection. Retrieved February 9, 2021, from http://newscomwc.newspapers.com/image/330817925/?terms=%22edith%2Btotten%22&pqsid=9JF4FvyGyHeayxOjkNzP5g:84000:1858908365   1880 United States Federal Census—AncestryLibrary.com. (n.d.). Retrieved February 8, 2021, from https://www.ancestrylibrary.com/discoveryui-content/view/35148805:6742?tid=&pid=&queryId=77426bcee4ef96704997c9b6b70ace89&_phsrc=eBA275&_phstart=successSource   1900 United States Federal Census—AncestryLibrary.com. (n.d.). Retrieved February 8, 2021, from https://www.ancestrylibrary.com/discoveryui-content/view/33891257:7602?tid=&pid=&queryId=77426bcee4ef96704997c9b6b70ace89&_phsrc=eBA275&_phstart=successSource   Alice Crosby Totten (1869-1884)—Find A Grave... (n.d.). Retrieved February 8, 2021, from https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/38919506/alice-crosby-totten   Coleman, Peg, et al. (1978). Winderbourne ACHS Summary Form. https://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagsere/se1/se5/016000/016900/016957/pdf/msa_se5_16957.pdf   Document | America's Historical Newspapers | Readex. (n.d.). Retrieved February 8, 2021, from https://infoweb-newsbank-com.i.ezproxy.nypl.org/apps/readex/doc?p=EANX&sort=YMD_date%3AA&fld-base-0=alltext&val-base-0=%22alice%20crosby%20totten%22&val-database-0=&fld-database-0=database&fld-nav-0=YMD_date&val-nav-0=&docref=image/v2%3A11BE946A9536E73A%40EANX-11C7E39797D27AF0%402409458-11C7E397DEA90B78%402-11C7E3988129E5B8%40Mortuary%2BNotice&firsthit=yes   Elias Howe. (2021). In Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elias_Howe&oldid=1005648130   Elias Howe | American inventor. (n.d.). Encyclopedia Britannica. Retrieved February 8, 2021, from https://www.britannica.com/biography/Elias-Howe   http://www.facebook.com/johnfranciskelly. (n.d.). For sale: The faded grandeur of the Winderbourne mansion. Washington Post. Retrieved February 7, 2021, from https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/for-sale-the-faded-grandeur-of-the-winderbourne-mansion/2016/04/18/2138eeda-0568-11e6-a12f-ea5aed7958dc_story.html   The Strange, Fascinating History of This Abandoned Mansion Gave Me Goosebumps. (2016, November 30). Definition.Org. https://definition.org/strange-fascinating-history-abandoned-mansion-gave-goosebumps/   Winderbourne Mansion. (n.d.). Atlas Obscura. Retrieved February 7, 2021, from http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/winderbourne-mansion   TRANSCRIPT:  Hello and welcome back to your regularly scheduled Crimes and Witch-Demeanors programming; I'm your host – Joshua Spellman!  Last week we took a small detour and discussed the Deuel House, the site of one of my personal paranormal experiences and switched meandered around history with no clear direction.  However, while this week we are covering yet another haunted Victorian, a Queen-Anne to be precise, it has a much more unified and chilling history and yet again, somehow it circles back to me…I knew the name sounded familiar.  However, as we have found out with most ghost stories on this podcast – the information that is perpetuated in the modern day is not often truthful or accurate. This week we are headed to Boyds, Maryland to investigate the Winderbourne Mansion.  Now, I am saying Winderbourne because that's what everyone says and it sounds enchanting and like something from a Neil Gaman novel…but through my research I have my suspicions it's actually supposed to be pronounced Winder-bourne…even if it doesn't quite roll off the tongue or make any phonetical sense whatsoever.  You'll have to let me know what you think.  This legend is interesting, and I thought it had to be true since one of my sources is a government source but – spoiler – I don't think it is.  This mansion has seen its fair share of tragedy and has been left abandoned for well over a decade.  It was on the real estate market for probably just as long, but now it seems it is no longer for sale, so its future is uncertain, as is its past.  Join me now to learn the alleged history of our Windy…or Windy…mansion.     Winderbourne Mansion was built in 1884 at the behest of Enoch and Mary Totten.  The Tottens lived in Washington DC but wished for a summer home to escape the hustle, bustle, and stifling heat of the city.  The couple decided on a plot of land near Little Seneca Creek, where the B&O railroad line gently curved around the property on two sides.  Access to the parcel of land was from Clopper Road, which the Tottens also purchased.  Eventually, the railroad expanded from a single track to a double track and needed to cut off the road.  The Tottens and the railroad came to a compromise, each paying half the cost of a bridge that went over the track and the railroad agreed to maintain the bridge in perpetuity. Enoch Totten did well for himself, as he was a prominent lawyer in DC and was a Civil War Veteran…he even managed to survive being shot four times at the Battle of Spotslyvania Court House…in fact, one of these shots may have been his own fault as a projectile bounced off of his sabre and hit his right hand.  Regardless of this strange mishap and his career as a lawyer – the capital for the construction of Winderbourne mansion came from his wife, Mary. Mary was the daughter of a Wisconsin senator named Timothy Howe who was the cousin and heir to the massive fortune of Elias Howe, the inventor of the Bobbin-Winder.  This device is what inevitably inspired the name of Winderbourne. When Winderbourne was completed it was painted a pale pink with dark rose trim and shutters of a deep plum – a vibrant contrast to its current pallid, moss-covered facade.  It's architecture was unique, sporting a triangular fireplace, a room suspended above the foyer, and hidden rain spouts that directed water to an underground cistern. The Tottens hosted elaborate formal affairs on their lawn, landscaped with rare and exotic plants imported from around the world.  And while Winderbourne acted as the Totten's summer home, it was staffed all year long, with increased staff during their stay. In addition to the parties on their lawn, they also hosted extravagant dinner events.  However, the food was never set upon the table; instead maids would carry around silver platters and bowls and served those who were seated at the table.  Sadly, the Totten's life was soon struck by tragedy.  The three Totten children contracted typhoid fever from drinking contaminated water.  Two of the children survived, while one of their sons died from the grisly disease. This tragedy soured the Totten's love of the Winderbourne property.  However, they kept the property and it stayed in the family.  One of the Totten daughter's, Edith, inspired by her tragic childhood experience became a physician and came into ownership of Winderbourne sometime before 1915.  She did not marry but adopted a daughter. The little girl loved Winderbourne, exploring its every nook and cranny, running through its magic halls that seemed to never end.  One of her favourite activities was to slide down the bannister of the massive staircase that led to the foyer.  However, one day when she slid down the bannister as always, she gained a little bit too much speed, lost control, flew off, and fell to her death. The curved railroad track around the home was straightened and the bridge that was supposed to have been maintained by the railroad company was demolished.  Leaving the Tottens with no access to their home.  The Tottens took the case to court and the home and surrounding property was sold off to the railroad. Not long after, Edith Totten dropped dead unexpectedly after giving a lecture at John Hopkins University at only 48 years old. Winderbourne Mansion was repurchased by the Pickrell family in 1929.  Edward and Beulah Pickrell raised their two sons, Edward Jr. and Paxton on the property.  Both Edward and Beulah passed away, leaving the property to Edward in their will.  During Edward Jr.'s ownership the house began to fall into disrepair, and he eventually passed away in 2004, leaving the responsibility of the quickly decaying property to Paxton. To this day the house remains abandoned.  Vines and the surrounding vegetation have completely engulfed the property.  Blending in more and more with Black Hills regional park that sits against the estate.  Winderbourne Mansion, once elegantly groomed, now appears like a map from a post-apocalyptic video game with several old muscle cars left abandoned in the yard and furniture, clothes, books, and magazines still left inside.  While the house has decayed and succumbed to the elements, the ghosts of its past still roam its halls in opulence; ignorant to the passing of time and the erosion of their beloved mansion.   This story continues to befuddle me.  I've spent so much time trying to confirm parts of this story, that as of now seem impossible.  Let's see…where should we start?  There are a few articles on this house and its history, they all seem to refer back to an article from the Washington Post.  I dug a little deeper and hit the jackpot!  Or what I thought was the jackpot: a 1978 report on the home's history available through Maryland's government website.  It is an ACHS summary form, I cannot figure out what it stands for but I'm guessing it's a historical site or historical society. This form seems legitimate, I had no reason to doubt it.  It compiles the history and it seems this is where most of the information available on the home and the Tottens stems from. When I started doing my own research though…I found some conflicting information.  All sources say that Enoch and Mary Totten had three children and that they lost a son to typhoid fever after all the children fell ill after drinking some contaminated drinking water at Winderbourne.  The historic report also details this while also saying that all drinking water there was boiled prior to use and that the cisterns that collected the water were regularly cleaned.  Still, there is always room for error, this is not what I found strange. Instead, I found that the Tottens had four children: Edith, Howe, Gerald, and Alice.  Even stranger still only one of them died…a daughter…but before the house was ever built.  Alice Crosby Totten died at the age of 16 on October 6, 1881 according to Washington D.C.'s Evening Critic and her tombstone.  Both of the Totten sons outlived Edith by decades and died in their seventies. Now, I did find the obituary for Edith Totten.  Which…goes to show the stupidity of machine reading or people, I haven't decided.  Some databases let you “clip” stories for collections and you can add information.  For whatever reason her one obituary in the Richmond Times Dispatch was clipped with her name being recorded as “Edith Tettea Saeeamba” while her siblings names' were recorded accurately.  This happened because of the title: Lecturer Dies: Dr. Edith Totten Succumbs at John Hopkins.  I'm assuming this is yet another OCR issue but luckily the search picked up Edith and the Totten of her brothers and I was able to locate it.  But I digress.  Edith passed away after she completed a lecture on “Imagination and Thought” of a cerebral hemorrhage.  So it appears this story is true. I was not able to find any record of her adopted daughter but it is entirely possible it happened.  I am really curious about Edith's story as she never married, inherited Winderbourne, and became a doctor and professor at John Hopkins.  For a woman produced of the Victorian age I find that so fascinating and impressive.  However, there isn't too much on her.  I was also surprised there were no pre-researched family trees for the family.  Her father, mother, and brothers all had some historical significance and I found it odd. The name Winderbourne or Winderbourne or Winterbourne sounded so familiar to me and I found out that is because one of Howe Totten founded Winderbourne Kennels who bred Great Danes.  Now you're probably like…why…does that make the name familiar to you?  For those of you who don't know I used to serve as the librarian for the American Kennel Club; and a lot of my time was spent researching pedigrees or dog genealogy for various researchers as well as digitizing and archiving old photographs.  I spent a good time with Great Danes and yes, this was a prominent kennel name I had seen time and time again!  They bred a lot of champions and if I'm not mistaken were one of the more foundational kennels for the breed.   I just always thought it was pronounced Winderbourne.  So the more you know!  It really is a small, small world.  But I digress!  Enough about dogs. So how did all this information about the family's three children and a son dying get so…wrong?  I looked into the report a little deeper.  All the stories about the Totten family tragedies were not from written record but were instead from a 1978 personal interview with a Hershey Ayton.  While I love oral histories and I think they're great for personal experiences, preserving indigenous languages, and folklore…I do not believe they're great for accurately recording events before your lifetime from another family.  Now, perhaps Ayton was some type of authority on the subject and they have information we're not privy to…that cannot be known.  But, insofar as the documents available to me, since I cannot access a lot of paper records without visiting institutions in Maryland, it doesn't seem like their accounts are wholly accurate.  Alice Totten surely died very young but it was before the home was built and she was not, to my knowledge, a son. Another fascinating facet of this story is how Mary Totten got her money.  I won't go into it but Elias Howe does not get enough credit in these news stories.  Elias Howe while he was not the inventor of the sewing machine per say, he is the one that perfected it, creating the lockstitch sewing machine.  He was awarded the first patent for the device in 1846.  His machine included the three foundational mechanisms of modern sewing machines: a needle with the eye at the point instead of the back, an automatic feed, and a shuttle beneath the fabric to form the lock stitch. However, despite being awarded the patent he could not find investors in the United States and so went to England.  There were some business disputes and so despite selling the machine, he did not make any money.  Upon his return to the United States he found that many other entrepreneurs were selling and manufacturing sewing machines using his methods.  Most famously, he became embroiled, or maybe we'll say embroidered, in a court case lasting from 1849 to 1854 with none other than Isaac Singer of Singer machine fame.  Isaac Singer and Walter Hunt had perfected a version of Elias Howe's machine and were selling it with the exact lockstitch that Howe had invented and patented.  In the end, Howe won the lawsuit and gained a rather amazing deal in the process: he was able to collect royalties on all lockstitch sewing machines sold by not only Singer, but a number of other manufacturers as well.  This is how the Howe's became filthy, filthy rich.  Howe also patented the zipper, or as he called it, “automatic continuous clothing closure” which doesn't have the same ring to it.  He never pursued it seriously so he is not credited with its creation. Elias Howe died at age 48 of a massive blood clot in 1867.  So how did Mary Howe Totten receive his fortune?  Elias' first wife died, leaving him no children and Howe's brothers also died.  While Elias' did remarry, his cousin, Timothy Howe, Mary's father, became the heir to the fortune, which is eventually passed down to Mary herself.  Very convoluted, very confusing.  But extremely interesting nonetheless. Insofar as the ghosts of the mansion…if there are any…you could technically visit yourself.  But I do not recommend it, at least physically speaking.  It is still private property as Paxton Pickrell has been trying to sell it since 2004.  It was originally listed at 2 million dollars, dropping to 1.5, and then to 895,000.  It never sold.  It's very tragic since it is such a unique home, described by the Maryland historical document as “the only grand and elegant structure in the simple rural town of Boyds”  However, elegant it is no longer.  The gardens are overgrown, with some of the rare vegetation from the Totten's exotic gardens still flourishing.  Many people still come to the property, trespassing, I may add.  But lucky for you, if you're interested you can find many urban explorers who have recorded their visits.  Some of their personalities are grating while others are not, but you can explore the whole of the property through these videos.  Some people come because it's creepy, strangely many people visit for the abandoned muscle cars on the lawn.  Regardless of their motivations, it surely looks quite haunted…but I have not been able to locate any tales of real ghost sightings or encounters.  The real horror here is the home's history…or…the urban legend of it, rather. However, Paxton Pickrell, who grew up in the house said “That place to me was just a wonderful home” and was rather perturbed when the home was first published on a list of “the spookiest, creepiest old houses for sale in America” on a real estate website.  The house is dilapidated, the local government has purchased all the land surrounding it.  According to Pickrell, the county has been trying to take the 9 acres of the property and that his defiance in selling it is standing in the way of progress.  I stand with Pickrell on this one.  While the property itself may not be haunted, what remains is a skeleton of the past.  Once a place of grandeur and wealth, it sits covered in vines looking more like the home of the Addams family or the set of a Scooby Doo cartoon.  Daring urban explorers frequent the site to catch a glimpse into the past, and I recommend checking it out.  I will post some images of its current state on the podcast Instagram, @CrimesAndWitchDemeanors, but I also recommend checking out some of the videos.  It's eerie how many objects are still left in the house. But that is all for today's episode.  Please, if you enjoy the podcast, tell a friend or two, force them into listening by any means necessary.  Leave a review if you're particularly cool.  And until next time; don't slide down the bannister, adamantly defend your patents, and of course, stay curious, and stay spooky.  Bye~

Join Jon and Rick and they dissect the weekend CCI long competitions at Mars Tryon international.   The guys catch up with Canadian Olympian Jessie Phoenix to discuss her horses and her plans for the winter. Then they are joined by USA Eventing selector Jonathan Elliott to talk about horses, Eventing, and even a little football!  There's also a bonus interview with 4 star winner Boyd Martin!

Tis time for another class at 1911 University with Joe Chambers from Chambers custom. Lock N Load is Presented by;   AR500 Armor   www.ar500armor.com   Hour 1; Franklin Armory www.franklinarmory.com     Hour 2;   Boyds…

Tis time for another class at 1911 University with Joe Chambers from Chambers custom. Lock N Load is Presented by;   AR500 Armor   www.ar500armor.com   Hour 1; Franklin Armory www.franklinarmory.com     Hour 2;   Boyds…

Recap of last week from thetruthaboutguns.com, with Editor in Chief Dan Zimmerman. Lock N Load is Presented by;   AR500 Armor   www.ar500armor.com   Hour 1; Franklin Armory www.franklinarmory.com     Hour 2;   Boyds…

Recap of last week from thetruthaboutguns.com, with Editor in Chief Dan Zimmerman. Lock N Load is Presented by;   AR500 Armor   www.ar500armor.com   Hour 1; Franklin Armory www.franklinarmory.com     Hour 2;   Boyds…

Another school day at 1911 University with Joe Chambers. https://chamberscustom.com Lock N Load is Presented by;   AR500 Armor   www.ar500armor.com   Hour 1; Franklin Armory www.franklinarmory.com     Hour 2;   Boyds…

Another school day at 1911 University with Joe Chambers. https://chamberscustom.com Lock N Load is Presented by;   AR500 Armor   www.ar500armor.com   Hour 1; Franklin Armory www.franklinarmory.com     Hour 2;   Boyds…

Ending the week with the most read man in the gun writing world, Dean Weingarten. Lock N Load is Presented by;   AR500 Armor   www.ar500armor.com   Hour 1; Franklin Armory www.franklinarmory.com     Hour 2;   Boyds…

Ending the week with the most read man in the gun writing world, Dean Weingarten. Lock N Load is Presented by;   AR500 Armor   www.ar500armor.com   Hour 1; Franklin Armory www.franklinarmory.com     Hour 2;   Boyds…

More Combat Pistol Craft with Super Dave Harrington from Combat Speed LLC.     Lock N Load is Presented by;   AR500 Armor   www.ar500armor.com   Hour 1; Franklin Armory www.franklinarmory.com     Hour 2;   Boyds…

More Combat Pistol Craft with Super Dave Harrington from Combat Speed LLC.     Lock N Load is Presented by;   AR500 Armor   www.ar500armor.com   Hour 1; Franklin Armory www.franklinarmory.com     Hour 2;   Boyds…