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2 episodes with charli prangley
2 episodes with charli prangley
Today I'm joined by Charli Prangley as we revisit our bold rebrand from ConvertKit to Kit - a journey of rapid change, decisive leadership, and preserving what truly matters. In this episode, we explore how we built a new identity without starting from scratch, the lessons learned along the way, and how our internal culture has evolved as a result.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction to Branding00:49 The Kit Rebrand Journey01:55 Lessons Learned from Rebranding05:11 Maintaining Brand Equity06:39 Challenges and Successes08:25 The Importance of Brand Strategy12:42 Messaging and Positioning15:33 Internal Shifts and Bold Actions18:56 Kit's Self-Belief and Leadership22:45 Creating Tutorials and Overcoming Roadblocks24:51 Celebrity Endorsements and Success Stories25:28 The Impact of a Strong Brand31:24 Executing a Successful Rebrand36:27 Dreaming Big and Making It Happen39:27 Reflecting on Leadership and Growth43:13 Final Thoughts and EncouragementIf you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave us a review. We read every single one.Learn more about The Nathan Barry Show: https://nathanbarry.com/showFollow Nathan:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarryLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarryX: https://twitter.com/nathanbarryYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshowWebsite: https://nathanbarry.comFollow Charli:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/charliprangleyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charliprangleyTwitter: https://twitter.com/charliprangleyYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/charlimarietvWebsite: https://charlimarie.comFeatured in this episode:Kit: https://kit.comKoto (Brand Strategy Partner): https://www.kotoagency.comSquare Black (Development Agency): https://squareblack.comTom Brady's Newsletter: https://www.tombrady.com/newsletterMorgan Freeman: https://themorganfreeman.comHighlights:06:03 – Churn: The Leaky Bucket Challenge15:05 – Unpacking the 6-Step Direct Sales Flywheel22:05 – Overcoming Migration Objections with Concierge Setups29:21 – The Zero-to-One of Personal Branding36:08 – Scheduling & Measurement: Locking In Daily Priorities49:20 – Innovating Pricing Strategies for Expansion Revenue
Today I'm joined by Jed Eglington to explore an overlooked path to becoming a successful full-time creator.Jed shares his journey from in-house creator to successful business owner, outlining how to develop video, storytelling and production skills that companies actually value. He breaks down what businesses look for when hiring creators and how to position yourself for these opportunities.Learn how to master the essential skills, create a compelling portfolio, and transition from creator to founder by building products your audience wants.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction01:06 Misconceptions About the Creator Economy02:03 Mapping Out Creator Career Paths02:21 The Role of In-House Creators06:57 Essential Skills You Need as a Creator09:01 Learning Video Editing as a Beginner11:20 Storytelling Tips for Content Creators13:32 Being Confident On Camera17:38 How to Find the Right Company to Work For24:35 Analyzing Video Formats25:21 How to Get Companies to Notice Your Work28:20 Making It Easy to Say Yes30:17 Guide to Going from Creator to Founder31:51 Building an Audience While Working Full-Time40:05 How to Grow Your email List47:20 Closing ThoughtsIf you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave us a review. We read every single one.Learn more about The Nathan Barry Show: https://nathanbarry.com/show Follow Nathan:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow Website: https://nathanbarry.com Follow Jed:TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@creatorjed Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/creatorjed Website: https://www.creatorroom.com Featured in this episode:Dan Go: https://www.instagram.com/danfounder Justin Welsh: https://www.justinwelsh.me Amy Porterfield: https://www.amyporterfield.com HiSmile: https://hismileteeth.com Kit: https://www.kit.com Gary Vee: https://www.garyvaynerchuk.com D Rock: https://www.instagram.com/drock Charli Prangley: https://charlimarie.com Tim Urban (Wait But Why): https://www.waitbutwhy.com Ugmonk (Jeff Sheldon): https://www.ugmonk.com Peter McKinnon: https://www.youtube.com/@petermckinnon Ali Abdaal: https://www.youtube.com/@aliabdaal Casey Neistat: https://www.youtube.com/@casey Karen X Cheng: https://www.instagram.com/karenxcheng Donald Miller (StoryBrand): https://www.storybrand.com Codie Sanchez: https://codiesanchez.com Nick Huber: https://www.instagram.com/sweatystartup Highlights:04:49 The Rise of the In-House Creator09:58 Learning More by Copying Others11:27 The Blueprint for Book Titles13:51 Why a Guiding Principle Matters23:48 Documenting Video Performance26:24 How to Get Your Work Seen by the Right Companies32:29 How CEOs Should Approach Employees Building Their Own Audiences38:37 Turning a Crowd into a True Audience41:49 When Are You Sending Too Many Emails?
The Smart Passive Income Online Business and Blogging Podcast
#833 The brand we envision when we first start is often not what we end up building in the long run. As our mission evolves, rebranding to reflect our growth can be a strategic game-changer. But how do we avoid the mistakes that cause more harm than good? Listen in on this episode to find out! I'm chatting with Charli Prangley today. She is an incredible design expert and the creative director at Kit, formerly known as ConvertKit. Our discussion is packed with actionable information on how to pull off a successful rebranding, so don't miss out! Charli and I dive into everything from choosing a new name and color scheme to reflect your brand to zeroing in on the right copy and messaging for your audience. Tune in because you'll learn the questions to ask and the tests to run to ensure your rebrand hits home! Show notes and more at SmartPassiveIncome.com/session833.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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Sign up for our free 7 day "Creator Blueprint" email course! In today's episode of The HeyCreator Show, Matt Ragland (@mattragland) catches up with old teammate Charli Prangley (@charliprangley) to discuss the role of design and branding for creators, along with the process of rebranding ConvertKit to Kit and lessons from her journey as a YouTuber. (0:00) — Intro (1:48) — The #1 design mistake creators make (12:26) — Outside perspective on your design process (22:30) — Charli's creator journey Connect with us: Join the HeyCreator Community Submit a question to Creator Advice Use Automatic Evergreen to send profitable newsletters on autopilot
ConvertKit is becoming Kit, and in this episode, Nathan is joined by Creative Director, Charli Prangley, for an in-depth discussion on the rebrand.They explore why rebranding goes beyond a simple name change, the significance of aligning a company's name with its broader vision, and the complexities of acquiring domains and other strategic assets.Tune in as we navigate the challenges and emotional highs of rebranding, share candid reactions from the team and the public, and highlight the importance of transparency throughout the entire process.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction01:05 ConvertKit Is Rebranding10:39 Rebranding in Public14:51 Hiring an Agency17:17 What Does It Mean to Rebrand?20:05 Crafting the Announcement30:43 Dreams Realized36:06 Reflecting on the Company's Growth39:22 Rebranding in Public41:42 Honest Reactions43:54 Concerns About the New Name52:30 Acquisitions and Expanding the Brand59:20 The Future of KitIf you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave us a review. We read every single one.Know more about Billion Dollar Creator: https://www.billiondollarcreator.com/Follow Nathan:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry/Twitter: https://twitter.com/nathanbarryWebsite: https://nathanbarry.com/Follow Charli:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/charliprangley/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charliprangley/Twitter: https://twitter.com/charliprangleyYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/charlimarietv/Website: https://charlimarie.com/Featured in this episode:ConvertKit (Kit) - https://convertkit.com/Craft and Commerce - https://conference.convertkit.com/Koto - https://koto.studio/Jon Youshaei - https://www.youtube.com/@youshaei/Ali Abdaal - https://www.youtube.com/@aliabdaal/Terry Rice - https://terryrice.co/Highlights:10:22 Rebranding and teaching everything you know13:29 Almost every creator goes through a rebrand19:31 Why Nathan loves the name Kit30:32 Everything I've dreamt of is coming to life37:02 Who is Craft & Commerce for?45:42 Reflecting on Apple's name change56:19 What does it actually mean to be a “creator”?
Recently, headlines have been buzzing as creators take significant strides in their work.In a deep dive discussion, ConvertKit's Creative Director, Charli Prangley, joins Nathan to dissect some of the recent strategic moves by creators. They explore examples such as MKBHD's (Marques Brownlee's) collaboration with Ridge, Mark Rober's 'Crunch Labs', and James Clear's new app 'Atoms'.Nathan and Charli also share insights into their own professional journeys and lay out future plans for the Billion Dollar Creator podcast.Subscribe to the Billion Dollar Creator YouTube channel to watch live: https://www.youtube.com/@BillionDollarCreator_
Many people strive to become creators but often forget the discipline, hard work, and consistency required to build an audience. But while the task can seem daunting, it's not impossible. The best way to learn how to grow a subscriber base is by learning from creators who have successfully done so.In this episode, Alyssa and Melissa talk with Charli Prangley, Creative Director at ConvertKit, about her experience as a YouTuber with more than 220K subscribers, and the author of the Marketing Design Dispatch newsletter with more than 15K subscribers. Charli discusses what led her to ConvertKit, why creators should take advantage of email when building their brand, and why simple designs often land best with audiences. They also discuss Charli's digital product offerings, her different sources of income, and her advice for aspiring creators.Key Takeaways [06:00] - An introduction to Charli and her creator journey. [07:35] - What brought Charli to ConvertKit. [10:04] - Charli's day-to-day at ConvertKit. [13:07] - Why creators should use email. [18:30] - An overview of Charli's digital products. [20:18] - How Charli decided which products to create. [22:00] - What do Charli's income streams look like? [25:53] - Charli's design advice for creators. [34:26] - How Charli encourages email replies. [42:28] - Charli's closing thoughts. [48:31] - Where to find Charli. Quotes[14:29] - “Email is powerful for directly reaching your audience.” ~ @charliprangley[25:53] - “The main thing I suggest is to keep it simple. The more simple you make it, the more refined your design is going to feel.” ~ @charliprangley[43:10] - “Don't make all of the decisions just based on business reasons, but include your own enjoyment in there as a factor too.” ~ @charliprangleyLinks Charli Prangley on Twitter Charli Prangley - Creative Director - ConvertKit | LinkedIn Charli Marie CharliMarieTV - YouTube Subscribe to the Marketing Design Dispatch Subscribe to the monthly Deliverability Defined newsletter! Ask Alyssa & Melissa questions or suggest content for our next monthly newsletter! Connect with our hosts Alyssa Dulin Melissa Lambert Stay in touch Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Facebook Instagram Deliverability Defined Website Try ConvertKit's deliverability in actionIt's now free to use ConvertKit with an audience of 1,000 subscribers or less! Start building your audience and reaching their inboxes: convertkit.com/pricing.
Find out how design expert Charli Prangley keeps both passions running as ConvertKit's Creative Director and creator of her design-focused YouTube channel, CharliMarieTV. Visit https://convertkit.com/charli-prangley for show notes and more information.
Subscribe to the Convertkit Creators podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pgecyiAMksRelated episode: https://swyx.transistor.fm/episodes/why-creator-clones-failTranscriptas a quick recap for anyone new who is listening i have had a youtube channel for i think about eight years um and i've grown up to two thousand two hundred and three thousand subscribers in that time so it's been like a slow growth but you know that's quite a sizable audience um and several months ago i decided to start a second youtube channel to split off a portion of my content and um yeah i don't know there might be people out there who think why would you start another one when you already have one that's got all these people why start a game from scratch you know um and so we're gonna talk about that today about the why behind it how to try and get as much of your audience as possible over from one to another when you start a new project we'll talk about youtube specifically but i guess it could apply to in general creators like starting a new project after already having built an audience somewhere else you know yeah thank you for giving me the platform to talk about this today youtube because i feel like it's been an interesting experience and i have learned a lot oh well charlie why don't you kick us off why do you start a second youtube channel yeah well so i started it because um okay backstory i have this podcast series called inside marketing design quick plug inside marketingdesign.co season two is happening right now um but i i ran this last year and i uploaded the episodes to my main youtube channel because it's like me making the content it made sense for me to put it in one place right um i found that my first of all those videos didn't get as many views as my regular like vlogs and you know or other videos did and also the youtube algorithm i feel like i confused it by suddenly uploading content that was a very different format a very different length like these episodes were like 45 minutes long compared to like 10 minute videos i was making um that all of a sudden it was like i don't know i felt like my whole channel took a while to recover after the season ended but my views on my more regular videos were then lower as well which i was like damn this sucks because i feel like this content is really great like i believe in it you know um i had some advice from roberto blake i'll definitely plug him he has a lot of really useful advice for youtubers you just search roberto blake on youtube and you'll find him um he was like i think you should put this content on a second channel because it is such a different format it's like its own brand and like in doing that you might have a better chance in the youtube algorithm to to keep it separate and also it could be a very different audience right people wanting to watch these their interviews with designers who work at other tech companies about the behind the scenes of their work there might be a different audience for that compared to someone wanting to just watch me hang out in my office with my cats and do my work you know like that's kind of very different content so it made sense to me um to put it on a separate channel and so that is the why behind why i did it and oh go ahead okay um a question that uh someone might have um about this is is that someone youtube allows you that someone might be me uh but i think someone else might have this question so okay here we go uh uh i know that youtube has the ability to kind of segment things within youtube so you can have different playlists and you can have like sub sections of your work there so why would you take the extreme of starting an entirely different channel instead of maybe the you thinking oh the overarching thing is this is charlie and these are the different things that charlie does and here are the different playlists of the things that i do you know go down the rabbit hole that you prefer choose your own adventure why why what's the main benefit of completely separating because you might also you kind of benefit from the fact that you're using your current audience to do this other thing right instead of starting all over so you're kind of taking a hit there as far as like possible eyes in front of your work that's a really good point yep yep that's a really good point um i think that doing that like you said having it in a playlist on the channel that can solve the problem of there being different audiences you know that makes it easy for the audience who likes interview content to find that on my channel but it doesn't solve the problem of the youtube algorithm and like as i'm talking about this please listeners take all of this with a grain of salt i'm not saying this is the only way to go about it if you want to do a different type of content i just know that from my experience um the youtube algorithm stopped recommending me as much and like my previous videos weren't getting as many views once i was starting to put out this interview content um and so that's why the why like a different playlist couldn't solve that basically unfortunately yeah um as far as the youtube algorithm goes specifically i mean is this all trial trial and error right is there somewhere where it says that's the real unfortunate thing here right because really realistically there are so many creators that are really diverse in the type of things that they do so having like one persona one youtube channel but all the different things that they do doesn't seem like it should be something i i guess i don't understand why youtube is doing this i don't understand what the benefit is on youtube right because i i think for us our our mission we always talk about this is supporting creators right so like is it is it it it i don't know it doesn't feel like it's um i don't understand it so i don't understand the value of it that it brings to youtube i guess yeah it's more channels yeah and that's the thing for the youtube algorithm is it's like it is a bit of a black box in that you don't know for sure like i could have made a huge freaking mistake by putting this stuff on a different channel right um and i guess i will never really know um if i did the right thing or not like truly but yeah i don't know so far i feel like i'm happy with my decision but it's definitely it was definitely not an easy one to make and like as the episodes have been going live for the new series and they get like um a few hundred views in the first few days compared to a few thousand that i might get on my main channel um but that i definitely didn't get last year when i uploaded the interview series there so it's kind of like i don't know yeah is it true nathan and i were actually talking about this yesterday we went to uh we were at a coffee shop uh having a remote work i don't know like work with co-workers kind of not even that i don't even know it was more of like a nathan goes to this coffee shop on and then you followed him yeah and i went i went too so you know but um for his uh podcast he has i want to say two different youtube channels for each of them one of them is like the full episodes and then the other one he has set up as only the clips and but we were talking about how the one with the clips has almost no views almost virtually never see views and so it's really interesting um to think about kind of what you were just saying is you're looking at this these videos and you're used to being a prolific creator that's getting thousands of views on your videos and you're seeing zero zero views ten views a hundred views you know um a small number in red you know yeah yeah yeah you're obviously you're a larger um larger audience but um and i asked him why i think it was sean uh mccabe that recommended do that and i didn't get an answer for that either so well i think the the algorithm is probably a similar response there you know um but that's actually from the same content so it's it's yeah it's his podcast and he has full length episodes as one channel and then he has clips as a totally separate channel yeah and i think it's because the like the format is so different you know like the type of person who just wants to watch like a 30 second one minute um snippet of advice might be different from a person wanting to watch the longer um yeah i don't know i i personally have been doing clips for my interview series and i have been uploading them to the same channel so now i'm like oh [ __ ] have i screwed up there again um but i feel happy with this approach so far um because my hope is that if someone sees the short the youtube short then they might get interested in seeing the full episode and then it's easy to access because it's on the same channel if that makes sense right right yeah and charlie i imagine that you are cross-promoting um and telling your audience hey by the way i'm doing this other thing um so i guess two questions one are you doing that i mean i imagine that you are and two um is there a way that you would recommend doing that um that is you know like not quite as you don't want to seem annoying or you don't want to like you don't want to harp on it too much and you know you know what i mean like how do you do that in a like you know non non annoying way to your audience that you're cross-promoting there's other things yeah you're doing that you're not here for this but hey go check this out you know totally um okay so when i when i created this channel there's a thing that youtube does where you have to have i believe it's 100 subscribers and the channel has to have existed for like a certain number of days before you can claim a url um and so what i did was i sort of like invited my audience to to help me out on this like channel transition thing you know um so many months before the second season actually launched i on twitter was saying hey i'm moving inside marketing design to its own channel please go and subscribe if you like the content um and if i get to 100 then i get to set the url you know like i actually said that and yeah people maybe it was too i don't recall what it is whatever it is i got to it fairly quickly because i made that ask right and because my audience knew why i was asking and they like wanted to support me in um being able to make that transition so that's right no i feel like that's one of the biggest mistakes that creators don't do is make explicit asks yeah yeah and quite honestly be transparent behind why they're doing it so i just let take that as a lesson um that that that works really well um is when you you know i was thinking about it in the format of deliverability when you ask somebody to do something and then you give them the transparent reason why you're doing that whether that's like to whitelist right you know the email address or whatever that is um but sometimes making that explicit ask people are happy to help because they want to support you in doing that totally yeah agreed um so where we're at right now is i've launched four episodes so far of the latest season on the new channel the channel has 922 subscribers something like that um so obviously like way less than the 203 thousand on the other channel um but the videos are like the difference in in the numbers between views on the main channel and views on the separate channel are not as different as i was expecting which is really good so for example the currently the like most watched episode on youtube um the second youtube channel has 807 views and that was the episode from a couple weeks ago so it's had like a couple of weeks um but if i look at last year's season um they were they had all like around 2 000 views i would say was about the average for an episode to have so i'm like almost 50 there in just a couple of weeks and those episodes were up for a whole year you know um so that gives me confidence that i feel like it it went well um and that making the ask of like telling people on twitter and also via email i send an email out to people saying the same thing like subscribe to this channel if you like inside marketing design means that the subscribers on that channel although there are very few of them they are the people who are actually fans of that content specifically which was the goal right to have the people who are fans of that um on over there i feel like i went off on a tangent didn't answer your question miguel was there anything else that you wanted me to answer no i don't even remember what my question was i'm just kidding oh great see that lauren's asked a question here in the chat um lauren says have you ever thought about taking snippets of the podcast when it launches and put those on the main channel as a way to let people know the new one is available um this is a good point so i think i can do more basically to try and be getting people over from this main audience to the to the separate side project what i have been doing is for each episode i've been making kind of like a companion video on my main channel where i take a clip from the episode and i sort of put some context around it so for example um i'm trying to like remember what the latest one was oh yeah i interviewed um one of the designers at stripe you know you know stripe we use stripe at convertkit um about how they get their web design stuff done and stripe is well known for creating designs that then get copied across the internet like they set the design trends essentially so i took a clip from that interview with tatiana from stripe and i talked about design trends um and then i sort of was like this is what tatiana had to say and then like rolled the clip you know um and made it like sort of like a less than 10 minute video um so that's what i've been doing um so far to try and get people from the main audience over but it is like a bigger leap right to watch one video and then click through to watch another one so i think i should do a lauren suggested and like just like i don't know maybe make a community post putting a link to the new video or something like that um yeah that is the goal to get people from the main channel over to the second one are you plugging it in your current like in your other videos still or like your videos um your other playlist your other content are you still asking people to move over i have not uploaded any other content so far like so far like since the season two launched i have just been uploading these um sort of like you know i'm calling them trailers in a way but really they're their own separate video with a clip embedded in them and that's the only content i've been uploading but but i think when you're i mean more on your like your how do i feel about design trends videos right like anything else are you plugging that content are you plugging in yes that content the purpose of it is to plug inside marketing design essentially i would say that also i aim to make them valuable on their own if you only want to watch that but the purpose is like i mentioned it at the start that this comes from a full interview you can click here to watch it and then at the end i like have it on the screen and i'm like click here to go watch the full episode so i am trying to get people over from it yeah yeah what advice do you have for uh creators with an existing audience as far as like starting a new channel what like you're trying to narrow it down into kind of like three takeaways on whether or not they should do it you know how to like you how do you put together that decision tree yep okay um first of all know your reasons maybe for why you're starting a second channel um i i think be sure that you've tried what you can to make it work on the main channel first because it is hard to like start from scratch like it's kind of depressing honestly to open up a channel that gets like it has zero subscribers compared to one that has multiple thousands um like it i don't know it just feels weird um as a crater to be honest and no numbers shouldn't matter in that way but it just does so be sure you know why you're doing it um ask your audience to head on over to it tell them about it wherever you can because if you say it once doesn't mean that every single person in the audience saw it right i have done many tweets i've mentioned it in multiple emails i've mentioned an instagram on stories i did a community post on the main youtube channel you know trying all these things and like more and more come over each time i've found that since the new content has been going out more so it's getting more subscribers if that makes sense which is understandable because like now they're seeing fresh new content that's a reason to subscribe but yeah like don't be afraid of asking more than once essentially um i think that if you're gonna have a second channel it should be a very clearly different content format to what's going on your main channel so that there is that reason to be doing it and that's gonna be clear to your audience as well right like it can't just be clear to you it has to be clear to your audience why it's separate so my second channel has its own brand um it's still using all my colors like my purple and things like that but that's so signature you could not use it imagine if i did something and it wasn't purple that would just be weird yeah that couldn't be charlie it looks like her but the color is red and she doesn't use red never yeah [Laughter] yeah i don't know if that was three takeaways specifically but those are the main things i would say to look out for um is the the reason for doing it having it look and feel different making the ask and also just like being prepared for it to feel disappointing when you launch something and like um if i'm looking in my analytics right now youtube does this thing where it shows how the your latest video is performing compared to others and it's showing me that this latest clip i've published is like doing best out of the last 10 videos and what's best is that it's had like 43 views since it was published a couple of hours ago and that on my main channel is like would be at least several hundred you know in a couple of hours so just be prepared for that difference and like try not to judge one against the other yeah curious though do you charlie do you have oh sorry miguel damn uh do you have a timeline of like evaluating it or goals centered around different time like no i feel like i'm pretty committed to this second channel now i'm like something would have to go terribly wrong for me to be like okay well now i'm putting it all back again so i feel like i'm just gonna like make it work whatever and i'm trying to in general have the approach of maybe decentralizing a bit my content in that um this podcast for example people can watch it on youtube they could go to the website insidemarketingdesign.co they could get it in their podcast app if they want and that is like you know a totally different format to just listen to the audio and obviously downloads there don't count towards the youtube view count um so i'm just trying to like embrace that and take the approach of like let the people find the content wherever it suits them best and i will try my best to get it in front of the right people however that needs to happen i love that i think i think the only other question i have uh for you charlie is i'm trying to put myself in the shoes of somebody maybe considering this or that has considered this in the past and is this something that is a they would you say is it a lot more time consuming to do it this way or is it just logistically in a different place but maybe about the same amount of work or i mean what what am what sort of sacrifice goes into doing it this way as opposed to having it all in one place is what i'm trying to get at i guess yeah i guess the like time it takes to upload a video or whatever is the same on from one channel to another but what you're losing and having two channels is that um when when someone when you're fueling and like pushing promotion towards a video on one channel it's not necessarily helping the other you know um so that's like the time consuming part is like i have to put energy into fueling both channels and like promoting both channels because one doesn't automatically lead the other there's obviously things i'm doing to try and make that connection and um you know i have them both linked on on all the all the places or whatever but yeah that's the reality of it um so that maybe i would say i wouldn't recommend people even start thinking about this um unless their content is very different like a completely different niche um or they have like over 100 000 subscribers already i think under that you're better to put all your fuel into the one place to like fan the flames and yeah keep the fire going that is my stake in the ground
The offsite is a staple – for individual teams, departments or even entire companies. A chance for everyone to get OOO, bond and get some deep work done. But today, as more and more teams are moving to hybrid or remote working, are they really necessary? Join host, Christine Dela Rosa and debaters Marshall Walker Lee and Shannon Winter and find out if your distributed team really needs to meet IRL. In this episode, you'll hear from team builder Anne Thornley-Brown on why setting goals for offsites is crucial, and Unsplash's CEO Mikael Cho shares the story of building his two companies at in-person offsites. ConvertKit's Charli Prangley defends the trust that can only be built at in-person offsites; while Trello's Leah Ryder takes us into the wonderful world of virtual retreats. For the transcript and downloadable takeaways, visit https://www.atlassian.com/blog/podcast/work-check.
Charli Prangley is the Creative Director at ConvertKit. Charli has a bachelor's degree in design, with an emphasis on visual communication, from Massey University. Before working at ConvertKit, Charli worked as a designer for companies such as Mitsubishi Electric, Xero, and her own Liner Note Kids.Born in New Zealand, Charli now lives in Valencia, Spain. She is passionate about helping creatives improve their craft and process, as well as working on her own side projects. When she's not working at ConvertKit, Charli creates weekly content on her YouTube channel and podcast, Design Life, where she shares insights about working as a professional designer, and gives tutorials and advice on design tools and concepts.In this episode, you'll learn: How to balance your side hustle with a full-time job How Charli turns curiosities into money-makers Why newsletter creators need a YouTube presence Charli's tips for getting more YouTube subscribers Links & Resources ConvertKit Basecamp Webflow Johnnie Gomez Pallet Sahil Bloom The Bloomboard Jessica Hische Charli's Links Follow Charli on Twitter: @charliprangley Watch Charli on YouTube Design Life Podcast on Twitter: @DesignLifeFM Design Life Podcast website Charli's website Episode TranscriptCharli: [00:00:00]I want to show people the real life of a professional designer; the projects that I work on, how I work on them, how I make decisions, the challenges that I run into along the way. That's the kind of thing that I'm looking to share. And then that sort of lens frames all my content. Not just on YouTube; it's also the newsletter, the book, anything I tweet, as well.It sort of all comes from this.Nathan: [00:00:31]In this episode I talk to Charli Prangley. Charli is the Creative Director at ConvertKit. She and I have actually worked together for four-and-a-half years, and during that time, well, actually before she joined ConvertKit, she'd built a popular YouTube channel about design—specifically marketing design.She's at over 200 or right about 200,000 subscribers on YouTube, which incredible.She's got all kinds of projects.In this episode, we dive into things about design. She and I are both designers, so we love those topics.We talk about side hustles, and how you balance that with a full-time job. Her career, moving up the ladder, becoming Creative Director at ConvertKit, and all the other things she wants to create.What gives her energy; what doesn't.We talk about sharing things about money online, and how that can be a tough topic.She shares her income, she does videos about salary and making income from side hustles, so we talk about those details, and then we talk about as a newsletter creator, is YouTube something that you want to pursue?And tips and tricks and ideas for that.Anyway, I'll get out of the way, and we'll dive into the episode.Charli, thanks for joining me:Charli: [00:01:42]Yeah. Thanks having me. I'm excited—honored to be on the Nathan Berry show.Nathan: [00:01:47]That's right. I'm glad it gets that kind of enthusiasm.Is only because we've worked together for so long?Charli: [00:01:59]Maybe, I don't know, honestly, actually I'd probably more excited to be on if we hadn't worked together for so long.Nathan: [00:02:04]That's right. You're actually like, “Fine, fine. I'll come on your podcast. But to be clear, I'm doing it during works hours, and you're paying for this.”Charli: [00:02:12]Yeah. This is a favor to you.Nathan: [00:02:14]Yeah. Whereas separately, because maybe if we hadn't spent the last four years working together, then, then you'd actually really want to do it.All right. Well, maybe let's start there because we have spent the last four years working together, four-and-a-half.Charli: [00:02:33]Yeah.Nathan: [00:02:33]And yeah. So coming, approaching five this fall. The first thing that I want to ask you about is how you think about all the different things that you're doing as a creator.As I mentioned in the intro you've got, you know, the YouTube channel, you have a podcast, you have a newsletter and everything else.And I, I just love to hear how you think about the intersection of those things. And then we can get into the intersection of a full-time role, and all the full-time creator things.So what's the, like Charli's creative landscape?Charli: [00:03:06]Ooh, I like that. I would say that I'm aiming to make the kind of content that would have helped out, you know, like the me from two years ago.And that's kind of been my approach the whole time through. So when I started, maybe I was making stuff more for beginners, and every now and then I will still, but I'm trying to like level up my audience as well as I level up in my career.And I love the term creator. I feel like it's definitely the best way to describe me because I'm not just a YouTuber. I'm not just a podcaster, or just a blogger, or a writer, or whatever.I do all the things like wherever I feel drawn to create in whichever method I feel like will best express the thing that I'm trying to teach or share is what I lean into.Nathan: [00:03:49]Yeah. that makes sense. Uh that's how I feel, like, you can't put me in a box.Charli: [00:03:54]Yeah, no. How dare you.Nathan: [00:03:55]The only box that I'm willing to accept is a giant all-encompassing freeform box of creator.Charli: [00:04:01]That molds, and like, changes shape as you do. Yeah.Nathan: [00:04:04]Yeah, exactly.Okay. So you have all of these things. Maybe your most recent thing that I want to talk about is Inside Marketing or Inside Marketing Design is that marketing would be an entirely thing.We're talking Inside Marketing and Design. I'd love to hear first, why you wanted to start that, and maybe the seed, the direction a little bit.I've heard you talk about like design being so focused. People either talk like graphic design, or they talk product design, you know. So, we're like into user experience, user interface.I'm curious how marketing design fits into that and your, your desires there?Charli: [00:04:42]Yeah. So, honestly Inside Marketing Design started as much with my content does, which is, I wish this existed. It doesn't exist. Maybe I'll be the one to make it.I found myself just like really wanting to hear about how other companies set up their marketing design teams, how their marketing designers get work done.And when you searched around for like, I dunno, medium articles and things like that, it's all about product design. It's all about product design teams, UX design teams, and how they work with engineers.And I'm like, what about the marketing design side of things? It's super important, especially in tech where most marketing design happens, most marketing, sorry, happens online and you need the digital design to make that happen.A brand is super important. Building up a company to, you know, a high level. And I just think it's completely underappreciated marketing design in the industry.And so it's like my personal mission to raise up the profile of marketing design eyes wider in the design industry and tech industry. And yeah, Inside Marketing Design interview show, that was completely self-indulgent where I got on calls with designers who work at other tech companies and learned about how they did that.Nathan: [00:05:51]I feel like the best podcasts and newsletters and things like that are completely self-indulgent they come from this natural curiosity, like that's where this show comes from. It's just like, these are the people that I want to talk to. And there'll be more likely to say yes to talk to me if it's for a podcast, you know, because otherwise like you end up in the, can I pick your brain thing?And that's like, Nope, no, no, no, no. Like bat goes in a very special bucket of, of emails. But if you're like, can I have you on your podcast? You're asking 90% of the same thing, you know, and the best questions are the ones where I'm like, I genuinely want to know this.Charli: [00:06:28]Totally. Yeah, exactly. That's definitely the approach I take to it. and since then, I've been, I've been surprised by the response that the number of people who are also interested in this very specific niche thing I was interested in as well, you know, it definitely has a way smaller audience than if it was perhaps a product design podcast or a UX design podcast, but that's kind of the point, right?Is I want to make content for this niche, this very underserved, I believe niche in particular.Nathan: [00:06:55]What's interesting is that I feel like, the market exists. Like, I'll be, obviously there's lots of marketing designers, right? Cause all going to the like every time Stripe comes out with a feature most beautiful page ever, you know, and all of this, right. we look at, even just within the Nisha software, like all of the design is so beautiful today compared to what it was even five years ago.And so obviously there's marketing designers everywhere. It's just that the content hasn't caught up with that, for whatever I feel like the UX designers and, and the freelancers have been so much more prolific in like content of this is how I run my business and this is how we structure our teams.And so it feels to me like the market. It's not that the market is small. It's that? it's just not established yet. There's not big of a community,Charli: [00:07:49]Yep. Totally. And there's not even one specific term, like even marketing design, some companies would call it brand design. Some would call it just web design, the creative team. I don't know. There's lots of different terms for it. So yeah, I guess I'm also trying to like unify us all under this marketing design umbrella as well, because it is it's design that helps market product or service.Nathan: [00:08:10]Yeah, totally. I, it takes someone to like, Hey. this is the term that we're all using. Just gives you're wondering, that, you know what you mean is marketing design. who are some people that you've had on the podcast that are particular companies that you've interviewed where you're like, we're really excited to dive in and learn what they were doing.Charli: [00:08:31]Yeah. So I was really excited to have it start out from base camp on the first season, back when he was still at base camp. and I don't know, it was just really interesting to learn about how they, how they do things. same with Webflow had Johnny Gomez from workflow on I've been a big fan of workflow for a very long time.So, yeah, digging in and hearing more about the day-to-day because it's one thing to just look at a company's marketing site or their marketing materials. And it's another to hear about the process that went into producing it. And like, where does this designer sit within the org structure of the company?How do they do things? So yeah, we go into lots of nerdy details like that, and it's been fun. I feel like I've learned from, you know, doing the episodes myself. Like, one thing that Johnny actually brought up is that when he's designing sites for web. He would write the copy for them as well. Like he doesn't use lorem ipsum or fill a copy.He'll like write real copy. And I would usually write like, sort of like a placeholder copy that indicated what I wanted to say. Like, it would be like headline about this. but since then, since that interview with Johnny, I've leaned in more to like, okay, let me just try it. Let me just try, write a headline.And you know, the writer can come in and fix it up later if they want to. But yeah, there's been lots of cool little, little learnings that have helped me in my process and yeah, I hope has helped the audience too.Nathan: [00:09:47]That's interesting. I feel like people do this with every skill that they're not, that they don't feel confident in. I was going to say competent, but often they're competent in skills that they don't actually like competent and confident. you know, don't always co-exist. And so I think that with design there's a lot of people who are like, oh, that's design.I can't like, I'm not a designer. I can't touch it. And you know, I'm always trying to use tools. Like pick-me-up like gradually drop people in and be like, oh, but what if you tried? And you know, and like, yeah, maybe it looks terrible, but here's this process. And I feel like copywriting is one of those things where people are like, I don't know how to do that.I'm not a copywriter. I'm, I'm a designer. I'm whatever else. And it's like, okay, but if you had to, what would this headline say? Oh, would probably say something like. Okay. Like, that's probably 70% there, you know? And then like if you had to write a better one, what would it say, oh, maybe it'd be this, you know?And, and that being able to jump in, like, you'll find often that you're competent, even before you're confident in those skills.So, you've got the podcast. Well, actually really quick. You said something about the podcast that you said, you mentioned seasons. how do you think about, doing in seasons and how does that fit into like your workflow,Charli: [00:11:06]Yeah, I wanted to do it in seasons because this is actually my second podcast. I have one called design life that I've been running with a co-host for years. And that is not one will seasons. It's sort of like an every week thing. Although we are on a break at the moment, and INathan: [00:11:19]Like a Ross and Rachel style break or what kind of break.Charli: [00:11:22]Uh we're on like a summer break.Nathan: [00:11:24]Okay. Okay. So everyone knows you're on break. It's not you think you're on a break and your cohost doesn't you areCharli: [00:11:31]Yeah, exactly.Nathan: [00:11:33]I've been watching friends lately. Can't help it .Charli: [00:11:36]So, I knew that I wanted to do Inside Marketing Design and seasons because of just how much work it is to do podcasts constantly. I thought I could package, like have my goal was 10 to 12 interviews. To correlate them into a season and also do a wrap up episode at the end of the season, just covering some of the things that I learned.Some highlights, things like that to tie a little bow on it. And, yeah, I'm starting the prep work for season two right now. my goal is to do one season a year of yeah. 10 to 12 episodes eachNathan: [00:12:07]Nice. What I like about that is you're able to be deliberate about what you're committing to. You can start it when you actually have like energy and momentum towards Um and then it's also a fixed commitment.Charli: [00:12:22]YesNathan: [00:12:22]Saying, I don't know what the analogy is. Like you're not even hopping on the treadmill or if you are here, like this is a five mile brightener, this is a three mile run or whatever.Right. And then you're like, and then I'm going to hop off instead of being like, Hey, I'm gonna get on this treadmill and I'm going to do it until I get burnt out and regret doing it. And then I'll quit about three months after that.Charli: [00:12:42]Yup. Yup, exactly that. And I would compare it more to a marathon than a five mile run, but, you know, just get technicalNathan: [00:12:49]Some of us are more ambitious than So what's the, like, going back to the creator landscape, in your world, you've got the podcast. It seems like that is the main driver, the main source of new content, for, Inside Marketing Design. But you've also got a newsletter, a job board and then a book coming.So how do you think about the other other aspects?Charli: [00:13:13]Yeah. So, the newsletter I started, honestly, I feel like it was from something that I'd seen you write, talking like building up your authority on, it was probably in authority actually. Now that I think about it, building up your authority on a topic before you're going to release, you know, paid product about it.And so I thought, well, this would be a really great way for me to generate like a warm audience of people who interested in marketing design. If I start a marketing design newsletter, so it's called the marketing design dispatch and it goes out on Mondays and. It's sometimes it's like a little essay.Maybe it's like even a piece of writing that I've been doing for the book that I'm writing about marketing design, or maybe it's a deep dive into analyzing a new marketing website that I've seen a rebrand, something like that, as well as sharing content that has been useful for me or that I've seen around the internet.And yeah, I've had a good response to it so far. Cause I, I started just sending it out to my existing list and yeah, I gave people the option to opt out of getting it if they didn't want to. And maybe like a couple hundred people did that, but the most, the majority of my list is stayed around for it, which has been cool.Nathan: [00:14:19]Yeah. So how, how big is that list? And then where did that existing list come from?Charli: [00:14:24]Hmm. So the current list is 18,000 subscribers. I just did a big cold subscriber call the other day. up to like 24,000. And so you're my engagement graph and ConvertKit's looking nice and green at the moment. yeah, and the majority of my lists previously had come from one, I have this really popular YouTube video about DIY screen printing.And so people sign up to my list to get a free opt-in that has like a PDF written with the instructions. So those are the ones that, you know, probably went cult. Let's be honest, but I also have a couple of other opt-ins about creating a design system for marketing website. How to advocate for yourself as a designer, self promotion as a designer, just a few sort of like things of credit along the way, as well as just a general sign up on my website.So yeah, most people are there because they're interested in my content, I guess. yeah.Nathan: [00:15:15]And so probably a lot of that is coming from either Twitter. but the bulk of it being from YouTube. Is that right?Charli: [00:15:23]A lot from YouTube, also a lot from my own website and from Twitter, I would say. Yeah,Nathan: [00:15:28]Okay. So you've got the newsletter there and then this is actually something that I was really curious about, like why launch a job board that feels like another, you're already juggling a bunch of LikeCharli: [00:15:39]Great point.Nathan: [00:15:40]how does that fit in.Charli: [00:15:41]Yes. So the job board came about, honestly, because of the platform that I have it on at school palette, and it's a way that communities can create a job board to advertise roles to their community. So it's quite like create a focus and it's meant to be heavily curated. So it's not like you come to my board and you find any type of design role.It's like a job board specifically for marketing design and brand design roles. Yeah, it's my goal to have it be the place that if you're looking for that type of role, you can search on here. And if you're hiring for it, you come post on my job board because you know that I'm going to send it out to my audience of people who are interested in this topic.And like, it just feels like a good fit.Nathan: [00:16:22]Right.Charli: [00:16:23]Pretty low lift so far, honestly. So that's another reason why I took it on because it wasn't like I had to make the site myself or anything. Pallet has the system and, they manage the payments for the job postings and things like that. I just go in when one gets submitted and see if I want to approve it and it gets posted.Nathan: [00:16:40]Nice. Yeah, no Southern people. There's a creator who I hope to have on the podcast soon named Sahil bloom, who has. Couple of hundred thousand followers on Twitter, a popular newsletter and all of that. And he just locked, launched a board called bloom boards, think is a great, I chuckled, you know?And so it's just interesting as a business model, because right, when you have this audience of tens of thousands or, or even more, that's really what you're, you're selling access to. And it's interesting, you know, like I'm used to selling products to individual creators where $50 or a hundred dollars or $200 is enough money that people are thinking hard about it.But what's interesting about it. A job board is that especially when the tech world, where someone is like, Hey, can you help me find this person that I'm somewhere between a hundred and $200,000 a year? And so, like, I assume you're, I don't know what your experience is, but the willingness to pay for that product is fairly high and they're really paying for access to your 18,000 subscriber newsletter.Charli: [00:17:44]Yeah. exactly. And the, I also have a tier on the job board where you can choose to pay, like a much higher fee. And I mentioned it in a YouTube video as well, that goes out to my audience of like 200,000 on there. And so it like, yeah. Smart idea. No, one's taken me up on that option yet, but I hope in time they will.Nathan: [00:18:02]Well, if nothing else, it's there for like package it, like positioning in there of like, well, maybe we would dive in what are the price points right now at the time ofCharli: [00:18:10]Oh, shoot. I can't remember off the top of my head. let me look it upNathan: [00:18:15]Google it either. That's tooCharli: [00:18:17]I'm just going to go to my own job board. How about that? So I think it's, I think it's 300 for an initial, like just a plain posting, 500 for featured, which then has like a, you know, a special section of my newsletter as well.And then I believe I priced it at like 1200 for the one that includes the YouTube shout out, which is like in line with what I charge YouTube sponsors is actually a lot cheaper than what I showed you, shoot responses, but, you know, I figure it's a good fit and it's doing service to my community to be promoting it well.So,Nathan: [00:18:46]Yeah. that makes sense. Okay. So what was the research that you did going into, like, I imagine it was more than like, oh, palette looks interesting. Great. Let's add this monetization method.What went in as you, as you were seeing of like, okay, I have this community and a job board is the way that I want to monetize it because I saw these people do it, or I you knowCharli: [00:19:09]That was the reason why. Yeah. it was mostly my friend , who was my co-host on the design life podcast. She had started one with palette and I saw her doing, and I was like, oh, this looks interesting. Like, tell me more about this. and she said that pellet had approached her and explained the system.So yeah, I reached out to them, got on a call with them. They're super like new as a startup basically. And so, you know, we're in, on, on the ground floor and helping them along the way with building features and, you know, suggesting what to build that sort of thing in their slack group. yeah. And I just decided this makes more sense than trying to build a, maintain a website of my own because they are doing that work.And, you know, as someone who creates on the side of a full-time job, leading a team at ConvertKit, I, you know, want to have this be minimal effort on my part get it out there. So it just made sense.Nathan: [00:19:58]So you're not very far into this, right? OrCharli: [00:20:00]No, it was brand new. I've only had like one person pay to post so far. It's veryNathan: [00:20:04]Yeah, we're just getting started. And so maybe this is a better question for like some point in the future, but like, if someone was coming to you and saying like, okay, I have a newsletter of 10 or 20,000 subscribers is like, should I consider a job board as well? Like as a monetization method, what, what would your, perspective be at this.Charli: [00:20:26]Right. Yeah. I think that is a good question, but I can definitely answer now. I would say if you could, if your niche for your newsletter is super cool. And there's like a certain type of people who read it or that you're speaking to when you write it, it could make sense to have a job board. there was some initial effort for me in finding some jobs to populate the board with sort of it wasn't launching with nothing, you know, but from then on, it feels like very low commitment because it's mostly inbound, right?It's people coming to you to post. So it's not going to be worth it for you if you don't have perhaps the profile in the community yet to get those inbound leads or, you know, get people visiting your board so that you have the good stats to tell people about that. Yeah. If you do have those things, consider it as an extra income stream.I think it's smart ad like diversify where your income is coming from. that was a big thing that led to me. we haven't gotten to this yet, but last year I doubled the income that I made from my side hustles and having like multiple small streams is how I did it rather than having like. Giant successful stream, if that makes sense.So yeah, I'm considering the job board as part of that.Nathan: [00:21:36]Yeah. I want to get into the side hustles as well. maybe before we do that, let's just go right there. Now the, I guess the first thing that I'm curious about is you share all of your numbers transparently publicly, that I do as well. and you also dive in, like you have popular videos on, like salaries for designers, your own salary history.Like one of my favorite videos that you've put together as like here's the salary that I've had at every role, know, across myCharli: [00:22:05]Every raise that had throughout my career. Yep.Nathan: [00:22:08]Yeah. And so, why, why that level of transfer.Charli: [00:22:12]Nathan. I feel like you're fishing for compliments, even though you don't realize you are, but It's honestly it's. Cause I, I, I got a lot of value from reading your income reports, seeing people like pat Flynn's income reports as well. And it just, I think it, it changed my mindset on money. It just it's something that we are taught that it has a taboo around it.Right. And we all keep it secret for some reason cause everyone else does. And so we think we have to as well. And I don't know, I guess just seeing other people share and seeing the value that I got from it and seeing how it didn't change my perception of them, if anything, it made me respect them more.I was like, well, you know, I feel like I am confident in what I'm earning and I'm confident that I'm being paid, what I'm worth. So why don't I just share this history with other people and tell them about it? And yeah, since then I feel like I've slowly gotten more and more transparent and the latest income report on my blog is the most transparent I've ever been.And yeah, I, no regrets.Nathan: [00:23:09]It's something that comes up. Like the reason I ask the question other than fishing for compliments, which absolutely doing, like, know, on a payment. the reason that I ask is because I think so many people are so timid about it. And so I like to have more of a conversation, not about like, just the like bold, brave people who are out there doing it, but like just to try to normalize it so much more.And so I'm curious what have been some of the downsides, you there's always, there's gotta be at least some YouTube comments or some emails something. And so maybe we can, can share a little bit about what the, I guess the, the outside edge of like, Hey, this is the downside, rather than just telling everyone like, oh, it was fine,Charli: [00:23:53]Yeah, totally. And I would love to hear this from you as well. I've had YouTube comments on both ends of the spectrum to the salary video in particular, some saying, this is irresponsible to tell people this is their rate. They're going to set them way too low. If they go and asking for what your salary is, you're being underpaid, that sort of thing. probably the people who live in San Francisco and work at like a Google or a Facebook or something like that.Nathan: [00:24:16]Yeah. It turns out you make like 500 grand a year. Like something crazy. You, you have to sell your soul. That's the only, like, I think, but other that,Charli: [00:24:24]So I've had people. I've also had the people saying like, oh my gosh, that's like so much money. design is like way over valued. There's people who are like, you know, saving lives in hospitals.And I'm like, yeah, this is a fair freaking point. I won't swear on your podcast. Great point that maybe the answer isn't, we should pay designers less, but maybe we should pay doctors and nurses more, you know, let's take that approach to it. but honestly less of that than I expected is is what I've seen.Maybe, maybe those sort of comments are happening in a less public forum. Like maybe people are talking about me behind my back. I don't ButNathan: [00:25:03]Probably not,Charli: [00:25:04]Yeah, well, Who knows, but either way the, the people who I care about, I haven't heard that from, will say one interesting thing I noticed is that since sharing my salary history and things, whenever I like offer to buy my family dinner or like, I know it will be, I'll be like, oh, pay they protest less.Now we'll just say that.Nathan: [00:25:27]That was going to be my next question is how it interacts with family.Charli: [00:25:31]Yeah,Nathan: [00:25:32]And so now it sounds like they're just like,Charli: [00:25:36]It.Nathan: [00:25:38]We can split it or something, but they only say it once instead ofCharli: [00:25:41]Yeah, yeah, They don't protest too hard. What about you? What have been some of the, like the positives and negatives you've had.Nathan: [00:25:47]YeahI mean, lots of positives, because I feel like the more transparent you are, the more, I mean, the more people read your content and the more they enjoy it, more they understand you. and so the more they want to connect, like soon, the number of people who I really respect and I'm a fan of who have reached out and been like, oh, let's chat.And I'm like, you know, I like playing it. Cool. I'm like, Hey. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be great. I, you know, I've, I've like seen your stuff on Twitter and really it's like, no, no, I've listened to every episode of the podcast or like some version of that. Right. And it's like, be cool, Nathan, you know? so there there's been a lot of that on the downsides.Let's see. I would say this is more early on, right? Because they've been transparent with numbers for the last eight, eight years or so. but especially I got started in online business when I was really young. And so. in the communities that like, like friends from high school or church or, you know, or my wife, Hillary is friends like in those circles, a lot of people were much earlier in their careers.So there was a time that, you know, people were making 25, 30, maybe $40,000 a year in those circles. And then over here, I'm like, if you, if they ask me what I do, I'm like, oh, I'm a writer or I'm a blogger or something like that. But on my blog, I'm talking about how, like I made $250,000 lastCharli: [00:27:14]Yeah.Nathan: [00:27:14]Right. And so there were a few awkward times when those worlds like crossedCharli: [00:27:20]Yeah.Nathan: [00:27:21]And it was, yeah. But there was a long time ago.Charli: [00:27:24]Handle it when, when they did cross though? Like how did you handle the situation? Awkward conversations.Nathan: [00:27:31]Yeah. well I remember one person in particular is one of. We're not, we don't, we aren't very good friends with them anymore, not because of this, but just different apart, but it was, one of my wife's friend's husband, you know, it's one of things where like you go to a party and for whatever reason, everyone segregates by gender.And you're what, why did we do this? You know? ButCharli: [00:27:56]This a middle school dance? Yeah.Nathan: [00:27:58]It was one of those things where someone who was genuinely interested in learning online business and, you know, and that sort of thing in the group and like follow my blog and understood. It was like asking questions about like, oh, how did this latest launch go?And, and I was like answering the questions, but I was just getting this feeling of like awkwardness from this other person. And so it, like, I always try to be transparent, but like, I couldn't, I was struggling to reconcile like in-person Nathan with online Nathan at that time I was glad that that resonates.Charli: [00:28:34]Yeah totally. Yeah.Nathan: [00:28:35]It was totally normal to be able to talk about like a book launch or something, online, but to talk about it in person of like, oh, this made like $40,000 in the course of a couple of days was a really weird thing to say. So I like dance around it and kind of set it. And from this other person got like just a straight up like, oh, wouldn't that be nice to just like, send, you know, send an email and make all this money and not have to work for it.AndCharli: [00:29:05]Well, I just, I did the work in advance though, soNathan: [00:29:07]Yeah, No, that's not the moment where you're like, be like, well, let's take a step back and let me get out the let's explain leverage and how you build a life. You know, it's like wrong, wrong vibe. just kind of shut down. I didn't know how to navigate that situation.So I did it poorly, you know, like kind of laughed it off. Someone else like felt the tension in the group and like made a joke and took the conversation some other way, you know?That was probably the most like awkward scenarioI've ever had. I, I think I have the same thing that you do have, like family is now like, okay.Yeah, no, you can, that's fine. We'll let you pay for that. which is honestly one of my, like, I, I like paying for thingsCharli: [00:29:51]Same. I wouldn't offer if I didn't want to.Nathan: [00:29:53]Yeah, exactly. So, and my family has been, been fantastic about all that.Charli: [00:30:00]I think, another thing that, I've noticed is I dunno, like, I think if you're going to start talking about money online, you have to, you can decide how much you want to share. Right. Just because you're being transparent about something doesn't mean you owe anyone anything more than what you decide you want to share.So for me, I share my income and I shared my business expenses, like the content production expenses this year, but I don't talk about like, oh, here's all everything I paid in taxes, everything that I paid to like live my life, or I don't know. Like there's some things that I'm not interested in talking about online.And I don't know. I, I started out giving people excuses when they would like push for more and more and more. But now I kind of feel like I've given you a lot. You take that and run with it. it, it doesn't, it shouldn't matter to you. my answer when people ask me, well, how much did you pay in Texas?And I just say, I paid the correct amount. I mean, what, benefit does it have to you to know this? You're not living in my exact situation, so I don't understand like how it would help. So, know, I decided that's not a thing that I want to talk about and, I am fine with that. And maybe people aren't, but yeah.Nathan: [00:31:14]Yeah, I think that's a great boundary and that's something probably that I haven't talked about this on this podcast that I'm curious for your answer on is what boundaries have you set in your like personal versus like creative life. Right? Because there are definitely people who would look at you and I, and be like, oh God, I could never like put myself out there in those ways.Like, I would never show up on camera. I like, I wouldn't talk about my life. I wouldn't put things on the internet under my real everyone has these different boundaries. And so I'm curious, like, what are some of yours? And have you set those over time?Charli: [00:31:45]Yeah, I think over time, I've settled more into my content that I put out online, being very focused on my work and obviously who I am showing up to do my work, who I am as a designer, but I don't share a lot of my personal life online. I'll share like the odd Instagram story here and there, pictures of my cats, that sort of thing.But you're not going to find me for example, vlogging on the weekend being like, oh no, I'm just hanging out with my boyfriend watching formula one. You know, that's, that's not the kind of content I'm trying to make. I'm just trying to make design focused. This is my work. This is my process is how I get it done.Sort of content. I did used to, vog more of the personal side of things and it was fun. And it's fun to have those videos to look back on, but it's also a lot like it, as much as you try to live in the moment while also capturing it, your attention is always going to be split some way. And so, you know, that's just a decision I made was to take more time offline when I'm not working and just document the work as what I share has been a good, good split for me, that works for me and my life and my family.Nathan: [00:32:52]Yeah, that makes sense. I feel like it's something that people probably do, both what you and I have done of like, not really having those clear boundaries and then you just gradually figured them out andCharli: [00:33:02]Figure out what worksNathan: [00:33:03]Think there are people who, you know, have things like, oh, we'll never put, like my kid's face on online or something like that.Right. I think like has that, has where like the like certain clips there'll be blurred they're like, oh, they're walking through New York. Yeah, exactly. It's the back of the head. Or you're like, oh, there's a kid in a stroller that you can't really see, you and it's just interesting to try to try to navigate that.So I appreciate people who are intentional. And I think I just, haven't, there's a lot of things that I haven't figured out exactly. And you'll see how it changes over time.Um, cause I think we, you know, what you're comfortable with comfortable. You know what the YouTube channel of a thousand or 10,000 subscribers is different than what you're comfortable with it 200,000.Charli: [00:33:53]Yeah, And, that changes over time, too. Something I recently started doing this year is streaming my work, streaming Twitch and. I dunno, I'd, I'd been very resistant to doing live streams in the past because I was just nervous about what having people watch me design. Maybe it was imposter syndrome I was feeling, or I don't know, just worried about people judging me when they're seeing messy middle of the process, rather than me presenting like this final thing that I've finished and it looks great.And there's been, that was a fun challenge to overcome. Honestly, it's been a really fun way to build community over on Twitch. like diversifying my audience in a way from not just being focused on YouTube or Twitter, but, building small audiences elsewhere. It's been cool.Nathan: [00:34:36]Okay. So you said diversify, which is interesting. And I like that. do you worry about diluting your efforts in diluting your audience? Picking up another none other channel or platform.Charli: [00:34:49]Kind of, but also no. so I have this person in my mind who is like my creator idol. you've probably heard of her Jessica Hische. She is a designer, a letterer illustrator, and I'm just such a big fan of her work and in how she shows up online in that, she's just doing cool stuff all the time. Well, that's what it feels like anyway, like doing cool things, putting it out there, you wouldn't call her a blogger or a, I don't know, like just a speaker or just someone on Twitter.Like she's all of those things. and she just like shows up in different ways to share different pieces of her work. That's what I'm trying to do. I don't want to be known as just a YouTuber and lock myself into that. And I feel like I did for a while. And it's only really been probably in the last year that I feel like I've pulled out of that.And that's not how I mostly hear people describe me anymore. yeah, I'm just trying to finish show up online and share things and, yeah, maybe I could be more successful in terms of building a bigger audience if it was just focused on YouTube, for example, but that's not my end goal. Right. So it, it doesn't serve me.And I'm more interested in just being, being a well-rounded person. Like I call it a digital citizen. This is what I did my, honors degree project about some bit nerdy about it. But yeah, I like being a digital citizen and giving stuff to theNathan: [00:36:13]Yeah.I like it. Well, so maybe if we dive in a little bit on YouTube since that is where the bulk of your audience, know, has come from and, and all of that, what were the things like as you look back over the last, you know, 200,000 subscribers. What were the things that made the biggest impact any step functions and growth or, you know, particular videos or really just habits that paid off over time?Charli: [00:36:41]I think it's mostly been habits. Honestly. There's only one sort of, step point in my growth that I can point to is when I was featured on a list of the design channels to follow on YouTube. And that gave me like a big boost, butNathan: [00:36:55]how ofCharli: [00:36:55]YouTube. Hmm. I can't remember now several thousand, like more than what get.It was significant, like a difference inNathan: [00:37:03]when you were at like 10,000, 50,000.Charli: [00:37:07]I can't even remember now. I feel like probably around like 20,000 ish maybe.Nathan: [00:37:14]So we're talking a significant boost at this point. It'sCharli: [00:37:16]Yes,Nathan: [00:37:17]10%, 20%.Charli: [00:37:19]Yes, In like within a week sort of thing. Major that I started to see those numbers increase. but most of my growth on YouTube has been like slow and steady. Just like climbing up over time for the first five years of being on YouTube.You mentioned habits. I didn't miss a single week about bloating for five freaking years. I don't know how I did it now. I Ms. Weeks all the time now, but that really helped me get in the habit of making videos. Get in the habit of having an idea, figuring out how to express it, learning how to edit, putting it out there, getting a response, making a better next time.I think if I had stressed a lot about my first however many videos I made in those five years, I would have taken a lot longer to grow if I'd been trying to perfect each one. But instead I was just like, no, what matters is getting something out there? So I'm going to get something out there. and that, that was a huge part in building my consistent.Then the other thing I think I'd say helped is deciding who I'm talking to on YouTube. I started out making content about a bunch of different stuff and eventually it settled. No, the reason I wanted to make videos is to talk about design. I should stop talking about makeup and cooking recipes and stuff like that.And like, let's just talk about design. That's what I'm most passionate about. so yeah, going all in on that has enabled me to get posted on lists like top designers to follow on YouTube, that sort of thing, and become, quite a well-known design channel. Yeah.Nathan: [00:38:47]One thing that's interesting to me is that even in choosing that knee seat to go for design, you haven't gone. What I think most people would find the most, likely path, which is like a whole bunch of design tutorials. definitely have designed tutorials, but like, if I'm looking specifically for how to, I don't know, combined shapes and Figma, your channel is not the, like, you don't have video of, you know, exactly how to do that.You might introduction to Figma.That'sCharli: [00:39:17]I do.Nathan: [00:39:18]Yeah. And you might, I have watched that video. I was part of me switching from Photoshop Figma was watching your to videoIt's not hypothetical. but, but what's the reason for not habit, like not going tips or tutorial base.Charli: [00:39:35]Honestly, it's, it's what I said before about, how a lot of my content comes out is making the kinds of things I want to see. And what I wanted to see is the behind the scenes of people's processes and talking through like the decisions they made about a project, like why did they do something this way?That's what I care about more than the, how I feel like there's a million tutorials out there to tell you how to combine shapes and Figma or whatever. there's people who are passionate about that and who are really great at explaining things succinctly. And they do it a lot better than I could. And that's just not like the space I'm looking to fill.I want to show people. The real life of a professional designer, the projects that I work on, how I work on them, how I make decisions, the challenges I run into along the way, that's the kind of thing, but I'm looking to share and, and that sort of lens frames, all of my content, like not just on YouTube, that is also the newsletter, the book, the anything I tweet as well.It sort of all comes from this.Nathan: [00:40:32]Yeah, I think that's the Mo the best way to be long-term authentic and say interested in when you, what you're creating there, like practical side of me is like, but you could do that and have the tips and that would drive, you know, search results. And, and I feel like that's a tension that so many creators have, like, this is what I want to make.And this is what I know will also get me short-term results. Like, should I do both? Should I split my focus? Is that something you ever thought about or struggled with?Charli: [00:40:59]Yeah.That's why I have a Figma one-on-one video is because I know that that does do well in search. And I think that, I think I'm pretty good at explaining at an introductory level, a new piece of software to someone I wouldn't really consider myself a power user of any software. So you're not going to find like a advanced Figma tips video on my channel.Cause I'm not, I don't, I'm not really an advanced user. I'd do what I need to, but I think I'm really good at making, something that seems scary or new, like a new piece of software that you have to use feel easy to understand. And so that's, that's the gap I try to fill in that sense to appease the algorithm.Like right now I'm planning a web flow one-on-one video to sort of go along with this one-on-one series that I'm doing. and my hope is that people see that and then stick around for the rest of the more process driven.Nathan: [00:41:48]One way that I think helps bridge that gap for people sticking around for, for your content is that you put your personality and yourself in it. Right. We don't dive just into a screencast. you know, and it's like, you've heard of watch a video. Like I know I'm watching one of Charli's right?It's not like any other video that I just found through through search.Charli: [00:42:08]And I've comments about that. Nathan people have said like, oh, why is your face so big on the screen? It's always funny how the negative ones talk about you. Not to you say, why is her face on the screen so big? And I'm like, well, you're probably not going, gonna like the rest of my videos that are pretty much only my face.So it's okay that you don't like this oneNathan: [00:42:26]I don't know if you know this, but you're on my channel.Charli: [00:42:31]And I'm the one reading these comments. Yeah.Nathan: [00:42:34]Yeah. Yeah. That's that's good. If anyone was starting a YouTube channel today, either in the design space or something else, like what would you tell them? What would you, would you say as far as like that advice to kick it off?Charli: [00:42:46]I think ask yourself what is not being talked about or not being talked about in a way that you personally find useful or like a perspective that you personally have in the design space in particular, there's a lot of content about like how to become a UX designer, that sort of thing. So it's like, and it's probably the same for a lot of topics is finding your unique angle on it now is important that the number of the space is more saturated and leaning into your personality, because that is sometimes your point of difference is that there's only one of you.And then you have lived your experience and white has led you to this point. And that could be an interesting angle to put on anything that you want to teach or share. But so that, and also just get freaking started. People seem to like, I don't know, obsess over perfecting the video, set up in their audio.And I think it's Roberto Blake who says that your first 100 videos are going to like be. Not good. I, again, I'm not sure if we can swear thisNathan: [00:43:45]You can swear. That'sCharli: [00:43:46]Okay, going to be shit, Nathan, they're going to be shit. And so you should just need to get through them and like get in the habit of producing and getting used to seeing your face and hearing your voice.So yeah, if it's something you want to do get started sooner rather than later, so you can get that awkward stage over with faster.Nathan: [00:44:00]Yeah. Yeah. And then like gear and everything else. You just like gradually replaced thing at a timeCharli: [00:44:06]Exactly.Nathan: [00:44:07]And gradually upgrade it. he did something last year. No, I'm trying to think two years ago, I hate what is time anymore.Charli: [00:44:13]KnowsNathan: [00:44:14]You made a font and that's something that I like looked at.There's like normal people. There's designers, and this is the way that I think, and designers who can make a font. And for anyone who's just listening to the audio. I'm like doing stair-step things with myCharli: [00:44:30]Yes. You have to imagineNathan: [00:44:34]So that puts it in a category of like, I just think of that as an incredibly difficult thing and not like a great moneymaker, like there's a lot of difficult things are high difficulty and high rewards, you know, the effort versus impact, like you're at the top of both.Right. And that's the reason like, okay, great. You know, that's very difficult, but you did it and there's a high, high financial reward. I'm curious the way you thought about making a font, because the way that I see it is that it is very high effort in low financial rewards. but maybe the reward and impact comes some of the.Charli: [00:45:16]I would say, I definitely have not, I dunno, earned even a minimum wage in my sales yet from the hours producing the font. I'm just trying to edit it up right now. Cause it was, I was sold across a few different platforms, but I think I've earned about six, 2,600 pounds from it so far, is like not bad.I don't know what that is in us dollars. should I Google that quickly?Nathan: [00:45:40]Sure. Let's do it. be the episode where we Google everythingCharli: [00:45:44]3,606 us dollars is around about how much I've made from the font. So it's notNathan: [00:45:50]Any matter, a thousand hours into it. And so $3 hour. don't know.Charli: [00:45:55]But the cool thing about it is one. It was just a thing I wanted to do. I thought it would be fun to try. Cause I'm, I'm an avid like font collector myself, and now it is my passive income. Like I, and, yeah, the bulk of that income has come in the past year where I've done minimal marketing for the font.I'll like tweet about it or share whenever someone else, someone posts like an image of them using it. but there's not been a huge concerted effort gone into that. And so that's kind of cool. It feels it's my first passive income that I feel better about than ad sense, for example, cause this is the thing created and I don't know.It's more intentional.Nathan: [00:46:35]Well then you also get to see it in use around the oh, that's my fault.Charli: [00:46:41]Yup. Yup. It's really fun. It's it's especially cool because I just created it as a hand, drawn looking font, but people very quickly just started using it as a font to annotate designs because it does look handwritten and yet it is also like highly readable.And so I really leaned into that as the, like in the way that I frame the font now and the way that I market it is. Yeah, this is to annotate your designs in a really clear and legible way that still looks and written. And we even use it on the convert kit website.Nathan: [00:47:11]Do it comes full circle.Charli: [00:47:12]Yes.Nathan: [00:47:15]On that note. I want to talk about the intersection between having a full-time job and life as a creator, because I think people would, would think of it as, oh, I have this, and then maybe I have this one side hustle or I ha like ha and, and you're able, I think, through the leverage that you've made with, like coming into the job with a, you know, established audience and habits and everything, you've been able to build, you know, like a small design empire.And so I'm you think about balancing those two things and, and what you'd say to someone else really, who is like straddle.Charli: [00:47:54]Yeah, I think I'm getting clear on what you want from these two worlds. It's important. So for me, it really matters to me that I'm still designing. And so, that's why I, and like contributing to a project that's bigger than just like my own. That's why I like working at ConvertKit. I do not enjoy freelancing, so like, it would be hard for me to really fulfill fulfilled, I think freelancing right now, anyway, who knows that could change in the future.That's why I am not interested in going full-time on the creating side of things. And so knowing that means I have okay. I'm no I'm going to work a full-time job. And I know that creating is also important to me, all this content that I'm making. I don't want to give that up either. So how do I do them both?How do I figure this And it's just been a, a constant, constantly changing, I dunno just way that I get this done when I was, I don't know when I was younger, like, I dunno, five years ago, I used to wake up super early in the morning and do a few hours video editing and things like that on side hustles before starting the day, I feel like I'm older and tired now, and I do that.But what I do now that I am earning income from my side hustles is pay people to help me. So I pay for editors. I pay for, yup. Video podcasts, editing, some VA's who helped with my bookkeeping and content management, uploading that sort of thing, just so that I can really keep the parts I enjoy to do myself and hand off, as much as possible of the stuff I don't enjoy.And it's been a worthy investment for me because of, yeah. It making it sustainable.Nathan: [00:49:31]Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. don't know if you posted this in slack or in, on Twitter, as I mentioned it somewhere else, but there's a video that you were editing recently yourself. And that was a bit of a, I don't know, not a wake up call, but I was like a reminder like, oh yeah, this is a lot of work.Charli: [00:49:50]that was one that I wanted to edit and then put out like two days later. And so I knew my editor wouldn't have time for a quick turnaround like that. So I was like, well, I'm just going to do it myself. And I'm like, oh, okay.I remember why I outsourced this.Nathan: [00:50:04]Yeah. That's even outsourcing something that like, you know, well and are good at done for many years. But I think what you've found in that, or, I mean, the point that I want people to take away is like, you can actually create really a lot, if you set up the systems you're willing to let go of the things that you're skilled at, but don't like, they're not the thing that makes the content, know, like maybe if, you and I were filmmakers, right.The editing and having just perfect. Right. That would be part of it where we're like, oh, wow, that was incredible. Right. But, but like we're, we're teaching content, we're sharing things. It needs good editing, but it doesn't like, that's not what makes her break the perks of the video. And so outsourcing that allows you to create so much more content.Charli: [00:50:52]Yep. Exactly. And that's often my answer when people say like, oh my gosh, how do you do it all? I'm like, well, I pay people to help me. That's how I do it all. I don't do it all myself.Nathan: [00:51:01]Yeah. When you sit down like a video that you're making in a given week, I don't pick a video. I'd love to hear kind of what your process is like. Do you just sit down and flip on the camera and start talking? Or are you writing a script first? what's your process? Like how much time does it take?Charli: [00:51:17]I these days, honestly, we do tend to write a script when it's a video. Like, oh, let's say for example, a recent one, I uploaded was one explaining the differences between, I think it was five different job titles and tech that you often see. that is one that I sat down and wrote a script for first, when I film it, I don't necessarily, I don't use a teleprompter and I don't necessarily read the script word for word, but it helps me process my thoughts to write it out first.Sometimes I find when I do a video, that's just bullet points. It takes me a lot longer to film because I end up like talking about something and then I'm like, no, I don't like the way I phrased that or we'll go back and like repeat it a bunch of times. so yeah, getting that out of the way first actually speeds it up for me to spend a bit of time writing.And yeah, I have my filming —set up like this background, if you're watching the video version of this podcast, is just where I do my filming. And that makes it pretty easy to just set the camera up, turn it on and film. I generally like to fill more than one video at a time as well. Cause if I'm going to like, I dunno, put lipstick on or something, I want it to be worthwhile.Nathan: [00:52:20]Sense. What you were saying about writing the script made me think of back when I was doing like designed to tutorial content. What I would often do is I would, I would know roughly what I was going to make or like the tip I was trying to share or whatever. And I'd have like, An idea of like, here's the fake app that I'm going to do it or any of that.Right. and I would record the tutorial and end it and I'd look at it and say, it's like a Photoshop tip and it's five minutes long. And then I would set that aside. Wouldn't delete it, but like, I'd set it aside. And then I would reset my like new Photoshop document or whatever. And I would record the exact same tutorial again.And I would look at it if the first one was five minutes, the next one was three minutes. And like, and I never wrote a script or anything, but just the action of like doing it twice. It was so much better the second time. And that's what I found was such an efficient process because, it still came across naturally, but I like avoided the random rabbit holes that I went down the first time where you're like, you're talking to, like, this is no longer useful.Should I edit this out later? You know,Charli: [00:53:28]Yeah. Totally. That's I do that sometimes as well. When it's more of a, off the cuff video, I'll, there's been times where I've been like, you know what? I got to the end of my, 30 minutes of footage. And I feel like I should record this again to make the edit process easier. And like, so that I'm more clear on what I said and what I didn't.Nathan: [00:53:46]Right. Yeah. Cause easier to get clear in the recording in a second than it is for your editor to be like, okay, the three of this plus version four of that one, like there we go. And we're going to do a jump cut here. So it seems likeCharli: [00:54:01]Yeah.Nathan: [00:54:03]That'd be great. Don't worry about it. are there times that the full-time role and you know, you'd like your side work as a creator, like those have conflicted?Well, I think that people are wondering like, oh, that's, that's great that it magically all works. I'm happy for you. I'm be happy to share examples as well at times, like that with me.Charli: [00:54:21]Yeah.I think that's a really good question because it is often the impression I think that we give across, or that I give across to people. and I find myself in weird situations where I'm convincing someone that my life is not perfect, which is weird, like find yourself but no, you're right, totally.There's I think why it comes across, like it all works is because I lean into the moments when I do feel motivation. And I do have time to like batch film a video. Like I haven't filmed a video for a month and there's still been content going out on my YouTube channel because I filmed it when I had time.And when I felt like doing it. but yeah, there's definitely weeks where. I can't get what I would like to done on my side hustle, because I know that I have to put my job first and I just have to like, accept that that's part of the, like, it's like a compromise you make in deciding to do them both and deciding create on the side means that I'm never gonna be able to produce as much content as someone who does it full-time can, or like take on every opportunity that someone who creates full-time can.And I just have to be okay with that. Right. And if I start to become not okay with that, that's when I need to like check in with it myself and be like, well, what do I really want to be doing here? Yeah.Nathan: [00:55:36]Yeah. I think that one way that they worked really well together is like different creative energy.Like I've spent so much time recently on like, where we're going as a company, you know, it's like all these high level things. and very little time, like as a creator, is core to who I am.Like if I were to, you know, write down some identity statement, like writer would be pretty high up in there, you know, writer, designer. and so if I get too far away from that, I find that, You know, I start to feel like disconnected from who, who I am at my core, but at the same time, like ConvertKit as a company does not need me to be a designer like there.In fact, I often cause more problems. If I jumped into let me design this for you. then, Al for someone else on ourCharli: [00:56:28]It's you didn't use the design system.Nathan: [00:56:31]Exactly like, hi, let me show you. Remember how I showed you the whole thing and how you didn't use any of it. And now this is really nice. and so doing something on the side.Yeah. Like I did a, I started a newsletter just talking about money, like, and doing that on the side has been like a really motivating, like get, has given me creative energy, even though it's an additional thing. The important distinction is that I had to make sure that it wasn't like a treadmill that I was signing up for. so it's like going back to, you know, a season of Inside Marketing Design, right? Yeah. I have energy. It's going to go towards this and then it's going to go on pause. and then also like setting it up. So it's, it's evergreen, right? So instead of sending, a broadcast every Friday morning, you know, I set it up.So it's an automation and convert kit and, you know, it's emails one through five and they just go out automatically. And when I have energy, I come in right. And like, you know, the next email is already ready to go and I'm working on one of a few later. and then I know that if at any point I stop, like here's this asset that people can keep buying or signing up for, and using, and that like it basically the it'll live on there's the system itAre there other things where, where you're doing that or other rules that you have in that.Charli: [00:57:54]Yeah.So maybe a rule that I have is, I was finding myself, spending a lot of time, like reading emails and reading about sponsorship opportunities and like partnership opportunities from companies. And often I would like, feel like I should explore every avenue. Cause like if someone who's offering to pay me money, right?Like who am I to say no to that? I should do my due diligence and check it out. You'd get a few emails in and it would turn out their idea of a sponsorship was like much lower than what your idea of responses. It was the company wasn't a good fit, or I don't know, you didn't love it. and so I just decided that I'm not going to even entertain the idea of a sponsorship from any company tool, brand, whatever that I don't already know and use, and like using myself.And that's just made it really easy. I just have like a text expander auto response that I can just quickly put in to send off to the people who, offer me sponsorships that I, you know, have never heard of before I don't use.And it, sometimes it hurts to like, think about leaving money on the table in that way, but I just have to hope it pays off longterm in that I'm making those much choices with sponsorships, you know?And that there's only one of me and I'd rather be creating than emailing a random companyNathan: [00:59:08]Yeah, you made model to help you make that decision and actedAnd freed up. Not only, you know, if people talk about like, you only have so many decisions you can make in a day you know, what font to use for this heading is one of those, you know, like we make a ton of decisions that you're just like, look, that's a whole series of decisions that I'm not going to make. And that frees up creative energy for other things. Cause like, should I take the sponsorship or not? It's not like a creativeCharli: [00:59:37]Yes, exactly.Nathan: [00:59:38]Business admin question, that's not.Charli: [00:59:41]Yeah. totally. And, another thing that I'm in the middle of right now, I said before the design life podcast is having a summer break. I'm also taking a bit of a summer break from my newsletter, from videos to allow the space to work on season two of Inside Marketing Design. and also to spend some time writing my book, which is completely like fallen by the wayside over the past few months.You know, got out of the habit of it
After our episode, Charli and I had a great chat about the design industry, becoming a creative director and when we should or shouldn't educate others.
How to make business branding decisions, what it means to be authentically vulnerable, and diversifying income with Charli Prangley. ----- Welcome to episode 313 of The Food Blogger Pro Podcast! This week on the podcast, Bjork interviews Charli Prangley about how she grows her business, builds her team, and does the work she loves. Side Hustle Income Charli is the Creative Director at ConvertKit, but she also does a ton of work on her side hustle. So much so, she was actually able to double her side hustle income in just a year! This episode is jam-packed with advice for people who are trying to grow their businesses while working full-time jobs. Charli talks about how she views branding, how she hires help for the things she doesn't like to do, and how she has diversified her income. Charli's advice will be a great reminder of why it's important to really hone in on what you're actually trying to accomplish when you're creating content online and what it takes to get there. We hope you enjoy this episode! In this episode, you'll learn: What marketing design means Why she doesn't like pop-ups How to make decisions based on your branding Which of her platforms is her favorite How she doubled her side hustle income in a year How she works with a channel sponsor on YouTube Why Twitter is a great place to connect with people How she makes decisions about what she works on Why investing in help has been key for her business growth Tips for hiring email help How to work with designers on your blog's branding Common traits of successful brands How to be authentically vulnerable Resources: ConvertKit Charli's YouTube channel Design Life Podcast Inside Marketing Design Podcast The Future Belongs to Creators Podcast Charli's site Charli's Twitch channel Pinch of Yum Pallet Doubling My Side Hustle Earnings - 2020/21 Income Report Figma Webflow Folk 309: Create with Intention – $130,000 in the First Week by Creating Premium Offerings for Your Audience with Shawn Blanc 097: How to Create a Full-Time Income from Blogging Using The Egg Carton Method with Bjork Ostrom Black and White Studios Dianne Jacob About This Week's Sponsor We're excited to announce that this week's episode is sponsored by our sister site, Clariti! With Clariti, you can easily organize your blog content for maximum growth. Create campaigns to add alt text to your posts, fix broken images, remove any broken links, and more, all within the Clariti app. Sign up for the Clariti waitlist today to receive: Early access to their $25/Month Forever pricing Optimization ideas for your site content An invitation to join their exclusive Slack community And more! You can learn more and sign up here. If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions for interviews, be sure to email them to podcast@foodbloggerpro.com. Learn more about joining the Food Blogger Pro community at foodbloggerpro.com/membership
00:00 – Hello 00:25 – Introduction 1:49 – Question 1 5:15 – Random question 6:53 – Question 2 11:00 – Question 3 16:50 – Word from our sponsor 17:09 – Question 4 21:55 – Question 5 -- Charli on Twitter: https://twitter.com/charliprangley CharliMarieTV on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/charlimarietv
To view the full episode show notes, visit: https://www.perspective-collective.com/perspectivepodcast/208Leveraging Side Projects Outside Your Day JobToday’s guests have built boomin’ empires both solo and together by creating side projects outside their day jobs.I’m talking about Femke van Schoonoven and Charli Prangley who make waves in the digital world of design, marketing, and education.When they’re not crushing their day jobs, they’re building engaged communities via their solo Twitters, YouTube Channels, and notable podcast: Design Life.In today’s episode, Femke, Charli, and I chat about leveraging side projects outside a day job and how to scale those projects with consistency.If you’re feeling overwhelmed and looking for a sign that you’re on the right path, then we got you covered like a blanket today.RESOURCES & REFERENCESDesign Life PodcastDesign Life TwitterDesign Life PatreonJoin the Side Hustler’s Coaching WaitlistCONNECT WITH CHARLIYouTubeWebsiteTwitterCONNECT WITH FEMKEYouTubeWebsiteTwitter----GET A GLOBAL PODCAST SHOUTOUTBecome a future Listener of the Week by Subscribing and leaving a Rating & Review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes here.FREE TOOLKIT TO SIDE HUSTLE FREEDOM6 FREE resources to help you grow an audience and build a profitable creative side hustle outside your day job. Download here.FINANCIALLY SUPPORT THE SHOW ON PATREONWith as little as your weekly cup of coffee, you can support the growth of this show by backing us on Patreon.JOIN THE PRIVATE FACEBOOK COMMUNITY FOR CREATORSJoin a like-minded FREE global community of kickass creators and take your side hustle to the next level. Your family is waiting.PURCHASE THE SIDE HUSTLER’S HANDBOOK PDF COURSEThe proven framework that’ll help you gain clarity, confidence, and a mental edge to unlock your biggest side hustling breakthrough. Purchase here.BEST DEALS ON THE BEST DESIGN RESOURCES (Affiliates)Engaged Community Guide - A FREE guide for growing an audience around you and your work. Download here.Happy Money Course - Generate passive income by transforming your artistic passion into a digital product. Enroll here.The Lettering Pricing Handbook - A handbook and video series helping letterers get paid their worth. Purchase here.Lauren Hom’s Classes - Use PERSPECTIVE10 for 10% OFF Lauren’s premium classes. Shop here.Design Cuts - Download your FREE Ever-Expanding design resources bundle pack. Download here.LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCASTING APPApple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle PodcastsOvercastYouTubeCONNECT WITH MEInstagramPodcast InstagramYouTubeTwitterTikTokPinterestCREDITSMusic - BlookahPodcast Editor - Aine BrennanExecutive Assistant - Paige GarlandPhoto & Video Specialist - Colton BacharSocial Media Coordinator - Hannah SchickAnimation Specialist - Greg D'Amico
It's the last Q&A Friday of the year. It's also the last episode with Nathan and Barrett as regular hosts.After 97 episodes. Nathan and Barrett are handing over The Future Belongs To Creators to Charli Prangley, Haley Janicek, and Miguel Pou. Find out more about what's coming to the show in Episode 96 — 2020 Recap.In today's episode, Nathan and Barrett discuss how and why to do year-end reviews, what it means to run a business ethically, how to build an audience from scratch, and more!Today's Questions How and why do you do your year-end reviews? What struggles do you face trying to do business ethically? Let's say you're starting from scratch in 2021. What are three things you would do to build an audience and stay motivated if audience growth is slow? What is the best way to advertise my tutoring business on Facebook — ask people to message me or send them to a landing page? Links Watch Episode 97 of The Future Belongs to Creators on YouTube Barrett's Newsletters JOHNNYSWIM Creator Session Episode 72 of Future Belongs to Creators: How much should you give away for free as a creator? I Am A Blogger coffee table book Miguel Pou Creators of the Day Brandice Daniel Haley Janicek Charli Prangley Isa Adney Henry Thong Resources of the Day On Wings of Eagles: The Inspiring True Story of One Man's Patriotic Spirit--and His Heroic Mission to Save His Countrymen by Ken Follett I Am A Creator coffee table book from ConvertKit (forthcoming) — check the shop for availability Thought of the Day“Looking forward, things are going to be hard, but know that as creators, we've chosen a hard path. Look to friends and family who can support you. Ask for help when you need it and know that we're in your corner.” ~ @Nathan BarryStart building your audience for freeWith ConvertKit landing pages, you can build a beautiful page for your project in just a few minutes. Choose colors, add photos, build a custom opt-in form, and add your copy. All without writing any code! Check out landingpages.new to get started.Stay in touch Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Facebook Instagram
This can be difficult to do as a creator because you might have the skills to do the work yourself, but not the time. In this episode we talk about when to outsource work, how to choose the right person and developing a productive workflow.Flo WongAine Brennan
It can be difficult to walk the line between being a normal person and a brand. There's a lot of introspection and thought that goes into how you want to present yourself to the world, and if you don't have a plan ahead of time, it can add additional stress and frustration to your life as a creator. In this episode, Nathan is joined by Charli Prangley to talk about the pros and cons of developing your personal brand and how to decide how much you want to share.Main Takeaways People become interested in who you are if you're a personal brand. Sometimes this can lead to feeling less secure, but there are steps you can take to minimize personal risk. It can be difficult at times to not let your very existence be part of “work” if you are your brand. Find time to turn it off. To be successful, you have to choose how much of yourself you want to share. Ask yourself what your self-brand would look like and how much you want to share. Don't self-sabotage. It can be easy to doubt yourself or your own success. Links Paul Jarvis Searching for Dave Chappelle by Jason Zinoman Corpse Husband Charli Prangley on Twitter Creators of the Day Hannah Lee Duggan Austin Church Start building your audience for freeWith ConvertKit landing pages, you can build a beautiful page for your project in just a few minutes. Choose colors, add photos, build a custom opt-in form, and add your copy. All without writing any code! Check out landingpages.new to get started.Stay in touch Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Facebook Instagram
We chat about how to use social media advertising to get in front of clients as a designer, to drive traffic to your site and to remind people of your products that they’ve previously considered buying. There is lots of insight to be gained from our discussion with Mojca, including actionable steps to take, whether you want to start using social media advertising today, or in three months time. Support Design Life on PatreonFollow Mojca on InstagramThe Science of Facebook adsSuper Spicy Media
This week on the Brand Your Passion podcast, I was joined by Charli Prangley, a marketing designer and side-hustle addict based in Valencia, Spain. Alongside working full-time at ConvertKit as a Marketing Designer, Charli hosts the DesignLifeFM and Inside Marketing Design podcasts, runs a YouTube channel with over 175K subscribers, designs and sells digital products, and speaks at events all around the world.In this episode, we talk about being human and putting the personal in personal brand, accepting help from others who are experts at what they do, niching, evolving, and transitioning your brand over time, and more!LinksCharli’s font: https://charlimarie.com/product/grayscaleCharli’s YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/charlimarietvCharli’s website: https://charlimarie.com/Charli on Twitter: https://twitter.com/charliprangleyCharli on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/charliprangley/
Find the full transcript at: How to Be a Successful Remote Web DesignerShow Links:Charli’s WebsiteCharli’s YouTube ChannelInside Marketing DesignDesign Life PodcastConvert KitRelated ArticlesHow to Work From Home and Not Go CrazyHow to Build Your Dream Career in TechHow to Be a Web Design Interview RockstarHow I Changed Careers at 36 Years Old to Web Design
Nathan is taking some much-needed vacation time, so, filling in for him is one of our great designers, Charli Prangley. She leads the creative side of our marketing team and we're excited to have her on the show. Today, we answer questions about pricing for international clients, how to balance full-time work with a side hustle, areas of professional improvement, and more!Today's Questions In terms of freelance work, how do you go about tackling pricing when working for international clients? How did you find ConvertKit and why did you want to work there? How has ConvertKit Commerce Beta been going? What is the initial response? How do you balance full-time work with a thriving side hustle? How do you start and invite people to join you on something new you're building when you're not sure exactly what it will look like yet? Could you talk about any differences between redesigning the ConvertKit homepage versus more typical projects? Maybe tips for working with higher-ranking stakeholders? How many people at ConvertKit have a specialist background and how many are generalists? What has it been like to step back into creator mode? What do each of you wish you were better at professionally? Creators of the Day The Sorry Girls Krista Tippet Resources of the Day Descript The Most Meaningful Job of Your Career Workshop Links Charlie Marie Figma Start building your audience for freeWith ConvertKit landing pages, you can build a beautiful page for your project in just a few minutes. Choose colors, add photos, build a custom opt-in form, and add your copy. All without writing any code! Check out landingpages.new to get started.Stay in touch Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Facebook Instagram
This week on Overtime, Meg recommends some virtual museum tours worth checking out, and gives you a rundown of how unemployment and PPP loans work as a self-employed creative right now. Plus, Charli Prangley and Femke van Schoonhoven stop by to talk about making time for side projects while balancing a full-time job, and how that heck that works.[00:10] Introducing the Episode with Meg Lewis[01:59] Dribbble: Ten Virtual Museum Tours Every Designer Should Check Out [07:01] How to apply for freelance unemployment benefits[11:02] Bench: How to Calculate Your Paycheck Protection Program Loan Amount[15:49] Meg talks to Charli Prangley and Femke van Schoonhoven about finding time for side projects [30:28] Meg answers a question about a new design holiday from the hotlineLinks mentioned in today’s episode:Femke’s YouTube channelCharli’s YouTube channelDesign Life PodcastThanks to the sponsors of this episode:Domain.meLeave some feedback:What do you think about our new format? Please let us know in the comments below!Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review. Connect with us: Meg LewisDribbble profileTwitter: @yourbuddymegInstagram: @yourbuddymegWebsiteFemke van SchoonhovenDribbble profileTwitter: @femkesvsInstagram: @femkesvsWebsiteCharli Prangley:Dribbble ProfileTwitterInstagramWebsiteDribbbleDribbble profileTwitter: @dribbbleInstagram: @dribbbleWebsiteInterested in sponsoring this rad podcast? Email overtime@gmail.com
This week on Overtime, Meg recommends some virtual museum tours worth checking out, and gives you a rundown of how unemployment and PPP loans work as a self-employed creative right now. Plus, Charli Prangley and Femke van Schoonhoven stop by to talk about making time for side projects while balancing a full-time job, and how that heck that works.[00:10] Introducing the Episode with Meg Lewis[01:59] Dribbble: Ten Virtual Museum Tours Every Designer Should Check Out [07:01] How to apply for freelance unemployment benefits[11:02] Bench: How to Calculate Your Paycheck Protection Program Loan Amount[15:49] Meg talks to Charli Prangley and Femke van Schoonhoven about finding time for side projects [30:28] Meg answers a question about a new design holiday from the hotlineLinks mentioned in today’s episode:Femke’s YouTube channelCharli’s YouTube channelDesign Life PodcastThanks to the sponsors of this episode:Domain.meLeave some feedback:What do you think about our new format? Please let us know in the comments below!Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review. Connect with us: Meg LewisDribbble profileTwitter: @yourbuddymegInstagram: @yourbuddymegWebsiteFemke van SchoonhovenDribbble profileTwitter: @femkesvsInstagram: @femkesvsWebsiteCharli Prangley:Dribbble ProfileTwitterInstagramWebsiteDribbbleDribbble profileTwitter: @dribbbleInstagram: @dribbbleWebsiteInterested in sponsoring this rad podcast? Email overtime@gmail.com
As creators, we put our work out there for public consumption. But sometimes that brings out the haters. Charli Prangley joins Nathan to discuss how to deal with haters and what we can do with negative feedback. Charli's been making YouTube videos for nearly six years with a focus on design topics both practical and personal. With more than 150k YouTube subscribers, she's gotten a lot of attention - positive and negative. Being open and transparent in your creative work will inevitably draw in people who want to comment on your process. It's important to create a mindset and process to deal with potentially negative feedback. In today's episode, we talk about preparing for negative feedback, how to redirect your anger and frustration, and how to manage unwanted attention. Main Takeaways There will always be certain topics that attract more negative attention than others. This varies by industry and topic, so it's something to keep an eye on and be aware of with your audience. Being prepared for negative feedback and understanding that the person commenting only knows you from this snapshot of your life can go a long way in helping you process and move past the negativity. Having other creators to talk to can provide an outlet for frustration. It also helps you redirect your anger away from the person who made the comment. Keep an archive of positive feedback. Being able to reference the good things people have said about you can remind you why you do what you do. Use the block button liberally. It's there for a reason and you decide what people can say in your space. Have a policy, make it clear, and enforce it. You can also delete comments as you see fit or reply to comments to educate people on why it's not OK. Creators of the Day Patricia Bright Sherry Walling, PhD Resources of the Day The Entrepreneur's Guide to Keeping Your Sh*t Together by Sherry Walling Animal Crossing for Nintendo Switch Thought of the Day“If you're a creator that's struggling with haters or unwanted attention, just know that you're valid and you can rant about it.” ~ @charliprangleyLinks Sean McCabe Figma Charli's Website Design Life Podcast Charli Marie TV Charli on Twitter Start building your audience for freeWith ConvertKit landing pages, you can build a beautiful page for your project in just a few minutes. Choose colors, add photos, build a custom opt-in form, and add your copy. All without writing any code! Check out landingpages.new to get started.Stay In Touch Apple Podcasts Spotify Twitter Facebook Instagram
Charli is a Youtuber, podcast host, designer, and side project enthusiast who's currently working remotely for ConvertKit. In this episode we chat about Charli's journey of writing a design book, balancing full-time, freelance and personal projects, and building community with other designers while working remotely. Find Charli on the web: https://charlimarie.com/ https://www.youtube.com/user/charlimarieTV Find Ran on the web: YouTube: https://youtube.com/flux-with-ran-segall Instagram: @ransegall The Webflow Masterclass: http://zpr.io/g8yBN
Charli Prangley was a student herself not that long ago, but these days she’s running her own design-centric media empire. Her YouTube channel recently topped over 100,000 subscribers! Plus she does a popular podcast called Design Life.
If you’re looking for a design job it can often be hard to find an opportunity, even if you’re the most talented designer. But if you get your CV and portfolio right, and put yourself out there too you’re more likely to get the job you’ve always dreamed of. To help with this, on this weeks podcast Ian Paget speaks with Charli Prangley to discuss job application tips, portfolio, CV and job interview advice, and also how she found her dream job through networking, public speaking, YouTube videos, Podcasts and a number of side projects too. Charli Prangley is a remote designer and developer at Convert kit, and is also a co-host on the Design Life Podcast. Show notes along with an episode transcription can be found here: https://logogeek.uk/podcast/finding-a-design-job/ Thank you to the sponsors I’m incredibly thankful to FreshBooks for sponsoring the show!. FreshBooks is an cloud based accounting software that makes it easy to create and send branded invoices, track time and to manage your incoming and outgoing money. You can try it out for yourself free for 30 days just by clicking here. I’m also thankful to HolaBrief who has also sponsored this episode. HolaBrief makes it easy to ask all the right questions and nail your design brief every time. Built by designers, for designers. Go check it out here.
Only a few months late... Charli is a brilliant, passionate, enormously talented designer out of the UK. Check out her work here: https://www.youtube.com/charlimarietv
There is often a confusion with the term “branding”. Many people often think a brand is what something looks like, how it’s made or presented. People often equate “design” and “brand”, even though it’s only part of the picture. All that being said, design is an essential ingredient of a memorable brand, and the best cakes require the best ingredients (yes, I used a cake metaphor.) Charli Prangley is a web and graphic designer who is passionate about helping designers do their best work. She currently works for ConvertKit, an email marketing service for creators who want to make a living. She’s built a massive audience on YouTube, where she makes quality videos about design. Charli joins me on the show today to talk about how design and branding work together. We’ll also talk about when to invest in design for your business, when to hire out, and how to communicate your brand values through design.
In this episode, Charli explains how she's using her couple of MacBooks and her iPad Pro with Apple Pencil to consistently produce YouTube videos and co-host a podcast while working remotely for ConvertKit (now Seva) as a marketing designer. Around the 24 minutes mark, Charli shares a tip that is useful for people who often copy/paste information from web pages and want to get rid of the style of the text.
If you're struggling with overcoming creative blocks in your life and business, or perhaps you're battling with that inner voice telling you "you're not good enough" this episode with Charli is for you. Charli Prangley is a designer from New Zealand currently living and loving life in London. She's passionate about side projects and when she's not designing at ConvertKit she's running an online store, and creating content for her design-centric 70k+ subscriber YouTube channel (CharliMarieTV) and podcast (Design Life) with the aim of helping out young creatives.
Give it Some Time and Enjoy the Creative Process Along the Way It may feel impossible getting exposure when you’re just starting to pursue your creative path. Believe me, I’ve been there. I spent over 25 years of my life believing that having a successful art career was impossible. As I’ve become more intentional with my side projects and have seen the potential, my mindset has drastically shifted. Think about it, technology is in your favor if you start today. It’s so easy to connect with someone on the opposite side of the globe within seconds. Not to mention that more and more people in the world are getting access to the internet every day. I really do believe that you are one scroll or swipe away from having your life changed. Creating the right side project(s) and following these 3 ingredients will aid you in getting more exposure for your work. These ingredients are: Research Consistency Shareability Obviously, you could say there are more ingredients, but I believe these 3 are great to keep top of mind. Research You might get lucky and stumble across an audience waiting to devour your style. However, I’d recommend doing a bit of research to have a plan. I feel the best, yet the most saturated market out there is Instagram for getting your work noticed. It’s the top platform for engagement right now and I’ve seen many friends blow up and create a thriving creative career from it. No matter the social platform you choose, research the best ways to utilize the strengths of the platform as you share your work. I started using Instagram seriously close to 3 years ago when I first became addicted to hand lettering. It started off with me throwing work out randomly until I noticed there were specific accounts and hashtags that surrounded this type of style of work I was producing. For example, there is the monstrous account of Goodtype that has well over 725K followers curated by my friend Brooke Bucherie. I remember when she had under 10K! Just to note, Goodtype started off as a side project and has evolved dramatically to become more than just an Instagram account. I noticed that she featured people’s lettering work who used the profile hashtags of #Goodtype and #strengthinletters on their lettering posts. I began using those hashtags and pushing my skills every day and ended up catching my first feature. Safe to say I was hooked. There were other accounts that were similar to Goodtype such as The Daily Type, Typespire, Type Gang and Calligritype that helped me build my account and get exposure through features as well. Tools for Social Analytics Another way I approach my research is with analytic tools such as Business Page Insights through Instagram and Iconosquare. These tools show you metrics such as your: Most liked photos / videos Most commented on photos / videos Least liked photos / videos Least commented on photos / videos New vs lost followers per given time Best times for posting Age range of follower Top states or countries following you Understanding these metrics lets you know what type of work people are engaging with and when you should be posting. With some research and experimentation, you can begin formulating a strategy while creating your own style that speaks to you and your future audience. Consistency We live in a microwave era where people expect instant gratification and get discouraged when they don’t see immediate results. The reason many creatives get exposure is because they are consistent and people know what to expect. I follow people or accounts on social media strictly because they post work I’m inspired by and are posting daily or at a consistent time weekly. 2 friends, I follow due to their consistent quality work are Bob Ewing and Charli Prangley. Being consistent has boosted their creative careers outside of their social presence. #Hashtaglettering With Bob Ewing Starting with Bob, he began hand lettering around the same time that I did as he took on the 365 daily challenge. Meaning he hand lettered a word for every day of the year. Not only did he reach his goal but he ended up extending it to a whopping 534 consecutive days! Not only did he improve his lettering skills, but he is now considered one of the revered names in a thriving lettering community. This has led to him getting great lettering projects, public speaking and workshop opportunities while building amazing relationships within the creative community. Video Content With Charli The other great example of consistency is Charli. She built her career on Youtube by pumping out insightful content targeted to designers on her Youtube Channel: CharliMarieTV. Over this period of time, she’s amassed a following of over 40K subscribers. She’s been posting 2 videos a week for over 3 years! Oh ya, did I forget to mention that she also co-hosts the Design Life Podcast with the talented Femke for over a year now too? On top of her drive, she is just a genuine and funny human being. Her hard work has landed her major opportunities such as her recent job of joining Nathan Barry’s ConvertKit staff. As you can see, being consistent over time can make some pretty incredible things happen. Shareability First off, I’m not talking about focusing on creating trendy work to go viral. What I’m referring to is creating genuine work that is: funny relatable inspiring entertaining Instead of worrying about expensive targeted ads to force feed people your work, product or services; focus on creating something that can spark an emotion. If you can immediately make someone stop and: tag someone in your comments repost or retweet your video text a link to their friends with the message, “Dude, you’ve got to see this!” You know you’re doing something right. Ketchup Calligraphy Sharing Awhile back I posted a video called Ketchup Calligraphy. I made a quote saying “You’re the Ketchup to my Fries” while spelling ketchup with a ketchup bottle and fries with actual fries. I use a lot of ketchup and this was just a funny concept to express my love for it. This ended up getting featured by million follower accounts like Art Worldly and by the entrepreneur influencer Tai Lopez. What made it even better is that they prompted people in the description to “tag” someone who is the ketchup to their fries. Next thing you know you have hundreds of people getting tagged to see this post and then all the traffic directs back to my account. Here’s a quick tip, when you catch on to your work that is getting shared the most on Instagram, you can start giving prompts for people to tag someone who can relate below in the comments. I think you’ll be surprised with the results if you experiment. By focusing on work that is shareable, it may very well go viral across social. However, don’t create solely to go viral as you’re setting yourself up for defeat. Don’t force it—create work that resonates with you that can leave an emotional impression on an audience. Getting Exposure Takes Time I’ve seen people blow up over a year and then there is people like me who have been chipping away over the course of years. These things take time but I’ve noticed that the ones who blew up more quickly than I knew their research and audience and they posted more shareable work more often than I did. More power to them, but I’m learning more and more as I go and sharing with you what I learn along the way. I wish I would’ve had these 3 ingredients top of mind when I started sharing art under my side project of Perspective-Collective and that’s why I share it with you now. It’s rare to watch a side project blow up over night. That’s why I stress the long game as I’ve found the most fulfillment within the creative process and I enjoy the daily challenge of building this into something greater than myself. So what’s that project you’ve been wanting to pursue? What’s holding you back? There’s never been a better time than now to start and technology is playing in your favor down the road. Scratch that creative itch and start your side project today. Key Takeaways Technology is in your favor if you start today. You are one scroll or swipe away from having your life changed The reason many creatives get exposure is because they are consistent and people know what to expect. Being consistent can boost your creative career outside of social media. Focus on creating something that can spark an emotion Show Notes Lauren Hom - Side Projects: Your New Secret Weapon Brooke Bucherie curator of Goodtype Bob Ewing Charli Prangley - CharliMarieTV Charli Prangley - Design Life Podcast
It's been said that in basketball, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. The same is true for getting guests on your podcast or being a guest on other podcasts: If you don't ask, it's not going to happen. So getting over your fear of rejection is step one, but today I want to talk about things that you can do to increase your chances of getting a yes from the guests you want, and how you can ask to be on someone else's podcast without feeling awkward. Key Takeaways: Most people who want to be contacted will make it pretty easy for you to contact them. It's important to have a good reason when asking for someone's time. People make time for the things they care about, so make sure that you are offering something they want. Don't be afraid to ask. You'll never get a yes if you don't ask. Always be looking out for people who share your passion. Those are the people you should be podcasting with. Finding Guests: First, Keep Your Audience In Mind When it comes to finding guests for your show, your first goal should be to provide something interesting to your audience. Put yourself in their shoes: What topics are they interested in hearing about? What kind of people would they enjoy hearing from? Try to find people who would be a good match for your audience. Who's Out There Already Trying to Build an Audience? If you don't already have someone in mind (if you're looking for interesting new people to talk to), try to find people who are already trying to grow an audience online. These people will be actively putting out content and engaging on social media. They'd probably be happy for an opportunity to talk about what they're passionate about. Step 1: ASK The next step is to reach out. There are many different ways to do this, but a safe bet is to choose the place that they seem most active. If they're a hardcore Twitter user, reach out there. If they're into Snapchat, hit them up there. Lots of people have a contact page on their website, often with an email address. Most people who want to be contacted will make it pretty easy for you to contact them. If you can't find contact info for someone, it might be because they aren't interested in being contacted by strange people asking them to come on a podcast. Ask Yourself: Why Do I Want to Talk to This Person? Before you reach out to these people, you need to write down why you are interested in talking to this person. Did they publish a really great book or article lately? Have them been consistently sharing great ideas online? Is it someone you know in person who has a lot of great things to say, but they've never had a platform to say them on? Do they work on products that you love? It's important to have a good reason when asking for someone's time. Email Template for Reaching Out to Guests Start by proving you're a real human who is familiar with their work. You don't have to know everything about them, but you should at least have listened to a few of their podcasts or read a few of their blog posts. Tell them which thing they did that you like and why. Don't say “all the great shows”. Be specific. Tell them what you'd like to talk to them about on your podcast. It's ok to ask them if there's anything they'd like to talk about as well, but you should lead by explaining why you want them specifically on your show. Briefly give them any other important information, like the length of your podcast and what they'll need to show up with. Don't make them guess; tell them how much of their time you want and if they'll need to record a local audio file (always a good idea). Suggest a calendar date but make sure they know you're flexible to meet their schedule (hopefully you are). If you have a scheduling app like Calendly, include a link. Don't assume they are going to say yes. That is wrong. Don't ever assume people will say yes. Thank them for their time and let them know that you're looking forward to hearing back from them. Overcoming Objections: I do believe that when people say “No”, you should respect that, but I want to talk about some of the common objections you might hear and how you can overcome or at least understand them. Objection #1. “I'm too busy” or “I don't have time.” Are they really busy? Have they committed to a large project at work? Are they writing a book? Do they have a family to take care of? The real problem may be that your offer wasn't attractive enough to them. You should have something to offer that they are interested in, whether that's exposure to your audience, a chance to promote a book or recent project, or even just an opportunity to nerd out about a topic they love for awhile. Don't make it all about you and what you want. If you're a small fry (as so many of us podcasters are), and you're reaching out to someone who already has hundreds of thousands of followers, there's probably not a good reason for them to come on your show. People make time for the things they care about, so make sure that you are offering something they want. Objection #2. “I don't know how to podcast” or “I'm not good at talking.” Some people may have never been on a podcast before. If that's the case, you need to be willing to take the time to explain the whole process to them and make sure they know that you will take responsibility to make sure that everything goes smoothly. Respect Their No If someone says no, don't get angry, don't try to talk them into it, just thank them and move on. Charli Prangley said in the chat before the show: “I've had a few requests from people to be on their show or be interviewed for their blog that I've turned down because they hadn't actually launched them yet and I wanted to see what the quality of their output was like, and the care and attention they give to it before I gave up my time to answer their questions. Does that seem fair to you?” Sure, that's reasonable. If you've never launched a podcast before and you don't have an audience, and you're reaching out to people who do, they may look at your email and wonder if you're just going to waste their time. They may wonder if you're even going to publish the episode or if you do, how good it will be. Remember, it's ok to say no to people who are asking for your time if there's nothing in it for you. But don't be afraid to ask. You'll never get a yes if you don't ask. Being a Guest on Another Podcast Again, don't be afraid to ask. Other podcasts need to have guests on too. If you have something valuable to share, then say so. If it's a show that doesn't normally have guests, it's ok to ask, but don't get your hopes up. Remember that “I'm a huge fan, so I'd like to ask you questions for an hour” is probably not something their audience will find interesting, unless it's the kind of show that welcomes Q&A like that. Find Your Podcasting Community Are there other podcasts out there similar to yours? Who are the people that are making them? What are they talking about? These are the people who you should be talking to. Always be looking out for people who share your passion. Those are the people you should be podcasting with. Recap: Know why you want to talk to someone, why you want them to be on your show Explain your “why” clearly to them, and give them any other details they might need Respect their decision if they clearly say no Don't be afraid to ask, don't psyche yourself out Look for the people who are already putting themselves out there and trying to grow an audience Q&A: Charli asked: If you're starting an interview podcast, how do you get your first guests? Start with your friends and immediate network, work outwards from there. If you want people with larger followings who don't know you to come on your show, you need to have some kind of track record that shows you know how to produce quality content. So start publishing podcast episodes, start writing blog posts or videos, start defining your niche. I don't want to discourage you from trying to get people who are more famous, but I would encourage you to reach out to the people who are more on your level or slightly above it, if you're just getting started. Links: Podcast: https://podcastingwithaaron.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/aaronpodcasting Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/aarondowd Blog: https://www.aarondowd.com Recommended Gear: https://kit.co/podcastingwithaaron
It's been said that in basketball, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. The same is true for getting guests on your podcast or being a guest on other podcasts: If you don't ask, it's not going to happen.So getting over your fear of rejection is step one, but today I want to talk about things that you can do to increase your chances of getting a yes from the guests you want, and how you can ask to be on someone else's podcast without feeling awkward.Key Takeaways:Most people who want to be contacted will make it pretty easy for you to contact them.It’s important to have a good reason when asking for someone’s time.People make time for the things they care about, so make sure that you are offering something they want.Don’t be afraid to ask. You’ll never get a yes if you don’t ask.Always be looking out for people who share your passion. Those are the people you should be podcasting with.Finding Guests: First, Keep Your Audience In MindWhen it comes to finding guests for your show, your first goal should be to provide something interesting to your audience.Put yourself in their shoes: What topics are they interested in hearing about? What kind of people would they enjoy hearing from?Try to find people who would be a good match for your audience.Who’s Out There Already Trying to Build an Audience?If you don’t already have someone in mind (if you’re looking for interesting new people to talk to), try to find people who are already trying to grow an audience online.These people will be actively putting out content and engaging on social media. They’d probably be happy for an opportunity to talk about what they’re passionate about.Step 1: ASKThe next step is to reach out. There are many different ways to do this, but a safe bet is to choose the place that they seem most active.If they’re a hardcore Twitter user, reach out there. If they’re into Snapchat, hit them up there. Lots of people have a contact page on their website, often with an email address.Most people who want to be contacted will make it pretty easy for you to contact them.If you can’t find contact info for someone, it might be because they aren’t interested in being contacted by strange people asking them to come on a podcast.Ask Yourself: Why Do I Want to Talk to This Person?Before you reach out to these people, you need to write down why you are interested in talking to this person.Did they publish a really great book or article lately?Have them been consistently sharing great ideas online?Is it someone you know in person who has a lot of great things to say, but they’ve never had a platform to say them on?Do they work on products that you love?It’s important to have a good reason when asking for someone’s time.Email Template for Reaching Out to GuestsStart by proving you’re a real human who is familiar with their work. You don’t have to know everything about them, but you should at least have listened to a few of their podcasts or read a few of their blog posts.Tell them which thing they did that you like and why. Don’t say “all the great shows”. Be specific.Tell them what you’d like to talk to them about on your podcast. It’s ok to ask them if there’s anything they’d like to talk about as well, but you should lead by explaining why you want them specifically on your show.Briefly give them any other important information, like the length of your podcast and what they’ll need to show up with. Don’t make them guess; tell them how much of their time you want and if they’ll need to record a local audio file (always a good idea).Suggest a calendar date but make sure they know you’re flexible to meet their schedule (hopefully you are). If you have a scheduling app like Calendly, include a link.Don’t assume they are going to say yes. That is wrong. Don’t ever assume people will say yes.Thank them for their time and let them know that you’re looking forward to hearing back from them.Overcoming Objections:I do believe that when people say “No”, you should respect that, but I want to talk about some of the common objections you might hear and how you can overcome or at least understand them.Objection #1. “I’m too busy” or “I don’t have time.”Are they really busy? Have they committed to a large project at work? Are they writing a book? Do they have a family to take care of?The real problem may be that your offer wasn’t attractive enough to them.You should have something to offer that they are interested in, whether that’s exposure to your audience, a chance to promote a book or recent project, or even just an opportunity to nerd out about a topic they love for awhile.Don’t make it all about you and what you want. If you’re a small fry (as so many of us podcasters are), and you’re reaching out to someone who already has hundreds of thousands of followers, there’s probably not a good reason for them to come on your show.People make time for the things they care about, so make sure that you are offering something they want.Objection #2. “I don’t know how to podcast” or “I’m not good at talking.”Some people may have never been on a podcast before. If that’s the case, you need to be willing to take the time to explain the whole process to them and make sure they know that you will take responsibility to make sure that everything goes smoothly.Respect Their NoIf someone says no, don’t get angry, don’t try to talk them into it, just thank them and move on.Charli Prangley said in the chat before the show: “I’ve had a few requests from people to be on their show or be interviewed for their blog that I’ve turned down because they hadn’t actually launched them yet and I wanted to see what the quality of their output was like, and the care and attention they give to it before I gave up my time to answer their questions. Does that seem fair to you?”Sure, that’s reasonable. If you’ve never launched a podcast before and you don’t have an audience, and you’re reaching out to people who do, they may look at your email and wonder if you’re just going to waste their time. They may wonder if you’re even going to publish the episode or if you do, how good it will be.Remember, it’s ok to say no to people who are asking for your time if there’s nothing in it for you.But don’t be afraid to ask. You’ll never get a yes if you don’t ask.Being a Guest on Another PodcastAgain, don’t be afraid to ask. Other podcasts need to have guests on too. If you have something valuable to share, then say so.If it’s a show that doesn’t normally have guests, it’s ok to ask, but don’t get your hopes up.Remember that “I’m a huge fan, so I’d like to ask you questions for an hour” is probably not something their audience will find interesting, unless it’s the kind of show that welcomes Q&A like that.Find Your Podcasting CommunityAre there other podcasts out there similar to yours? Who are the people that are making them? What are they talking about? These are the people who you should be talking to.Always be looking out for people who share your passion. Those are the people you should be podcasting with.Recap:Know why you want to talk to someone, why you want them to be on your showExplain your “why” clearly to them, and give them any other details they might needRespect their decision if they clearly say noDon’t be afraid to ask, don’t psyche yourself outLook for the people who are already putting themselves out there and trying to grow an audienceQ&A:Charli asked: If you’re starting an interview podcast, how do you get your first guests?Start with your friends and immediate network, work outwards from there. If you want people with larger followings who don’t know you to come on your show, you need to have some kind of track record that shows you know how to produce quality content. So start publishing podcast episodes, start writing blog posts or videos, start defining your niche.I don’t want to discourage you from trying to get people who are more famous, but I would encourage you to reach out to the people who are more on your level or slightly above it, if you’re just getting started.Links:Podcast: https://podcastingwithaaron.comTwitter: https://twitter.com/aaronpodcastingYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/aarondowdBlog: https://www.aarondowd.comRecommended Gear: https://kit.co/podcastingwithaaron
Charli Prangley is a designer by day and a content creator by... well, pretty much the rest of the time. In addition to her day job, she produces two high-quality Youtube videos and a podcast every week, and also runs an online apparel shop. I was so impressed with the consistency and quality of her output that I knew I had to get her on the show to share how she creates so much while still working a full-time job. If you've ever struggled with creating consistently or trying to get everything 100% perfect before shipping, you need to listen to this episode. Key Takeaways: You don't have to have the best camera or microphone to get started. Use what you have or what you can afford, and upgrade later. If you want someone to invest time in what you're creating, show them a little bit of your personality but make sure you share content they'd be interested in. Sometimes you do have to “beat people over the head” to get them to check out a link. You might have to post a link multiple times in a week before someone actually sees it and clicks on it. Look for communities and people to collaborate and work with. It's a great way to share and grow audiences. If you want to be successful in video or podcasting, make creating content a habit and not just something you do when you have “free time”. Don't try to fine-tune your content to perfection; give yourself a deadline and ship it. Aaron: It seems like you're constantly putting out content. I always see you tweeting about editing vlogs or your latest podcast episode. You post two videos to your YouTube channel every week in addition to your weekly podcast, Design Life. How do you manage to create so much while still working a full time job? Charli: When you create a lot of content online (like I do), everything in your life becomes an opportunity to create content and tell a story. If I go to an event, I think about what I'm going to learn that I can share with other people. This provides a constant stream of ideas that I can share in my videos or podcast episodes. Aaron: So you put a lot of content out consistently, and you're seeing results; you're almost to 25,000 subscribers on Youtube. Can you take us back to the beginning and share how and why you got started? Charli: I started my Youtube channel back in 2013 because I wanted to see into the lives of other designers, but I wasn't finding the kind of content I was looking for. There were a lot of tutorials, but I wanted to get to know the people behind those tutorials. I decided to start my own YouTube channel so I could create lifestyle content from the perspective of a designer. Other designers discovered my channel because they were looking for the same thing. Having that unique point of view from the start really helped my channel grow. Aaron: So you made the show you wanted to watch, and it turned out that there are a lot of other people who wanted that show as well? Charli: Exactly. I try to think about what I would have found valuable in my early days of getting started as a designer, and then I create that content. It's really rewarding when I hear from young designers who tell me how my content is helping them. Charli's Gear Setup Aaron: What kind of gear were you using when you started back in 2013? Charli: When I first started, I was using a Nikon D5000. It's a DLSR but it can only record video for 5 minutes at a time and only in 720p. It didn't have a flip-out screen or auto-focus in video mode, so there were a lot of challenges to overcome to get my video content made, but I stuck with it. It was about a year before I could afford an upgrade. Aaron: I started a video show recently, and I've been using my iPhone and a Shure MV88 mic, and I've already got better gear than you had (because I've got the front-facing screen to see myself). With smart phone cameras being as good as they are now, anyone can shoot video. What did you end up upgrading to? Charli: I got a Canon 70d which I really like. It's a great all around camera for the price. You don't have to have the best camera or microphone to get started. Use what you have or what you can afford, and upgrade later. Charli's Tips for Growing an Audience Aaron: When you started producing video, did you have any kind of online following? Charli: Not really. I think I had around 1,000 followers on Twitter because I was pretty active in my design and tech scene in Wellington, NZ, so I suppose that's where my first views came from. Aaron: Did you have a strategy for growing your audience? Charli: I knew a little bit about search engine optimization (because I was doing it at my job), so I thought about how I could apply that to my videos, but it was mostly trial-and-error. I paid attention to what worked, what thumbnails people preferred and what content they were interested in. But something I've done from the start was to make sure my videos were tagged well so that they come up in search. Today, about half of my views come from people searching YouTube. Don't underestimate the value of SEO. Aaron: SEO is important. The way I like to explain it is just think about what people would search Google or Youtube for, and then use those words in your podcast or video title, or in headlines on your blog post. There's a lot more to it than that, but that's a great place to start. How to Get People to Pay Attention to Your Content Jordan Newhouse asks: I produce new content every week. How do I get people to realize the content is there and get them to check it out? Charli: Start by looping in all of your social media to the content you're creating. You don't want to be talking about yourself non-stop online, that's not the way to have an interesting account. If you want someone to invest time in what you're creating, show them a little bit of your personality but make sure you share content they'd be interested in. You have to share your content more than once. You can't send out a tweet and expect everyone to notice. Some people might not be paying attention or they might be half-asleep; you have to share it anywhere and everywhere you can, in different ways. Try different titles to see what works. I create so much content so often that by the time I'm finished with a video, I'm already thinking about the next one, but I should be thinking about how to best promote the video I just made. Aaron: I used to feel weird about sharing links to my content more than once. I used to think people would be annoyed if they saw me post multiple links to content. I finally realized that most people just aren't paying that close of attention to their social media streams. Sometimes you do have to “beat people over the head” to get them to check out a link. You might have to post a link multiple times in a week before someone actually sees it and clicks on it. How to Promote Your Content Charli: One of the best ways to promote your content is in response to questions you see your audience asking. If one of your followers is discussing a topic you covered on your podcast, send them a link to that episode if you think they'd find it valuable. Aaron: I love doing that. Some of the podcasters I follow have their own hashtags, so I'll use Twitter search to find people who are asking podcasting questions and send them links to my episodes where I answered their questions. If someone wants to learn, you would be doing them a disservice by not sending them a link to your content if it answers their question or would help them in some way. Participate in Your Community Aaron: I talk a lot about the importance of participating in your community, inviting guests on your podcast and collaborating with other people. You participate in an active Youtube community, right? Charli: That's something I love about Youtube, there's a very active community there. Everyone's very collaborative, it's easy to create video with other people and combine your audiences. Look for communities and people to collaborate and work with. It's a great way to share and grow audiences. Create Content in Multiple Mediums and Build a Creation Habit Aaron: You started a podcast recently. Did you find it easier since you've been creating video for a couple years? Charli: There was definitely a learning curve, just like getting started with video. There were all these new things to learn like what kind of microphone to buy, how to record and edit, and how to get your show into iTunes. It seems like it should be easy, just hit record and make a podcast, but it's really not that simple. Aaron: One of my friends wants to start a podcast, but he wants to get everything perfect right away. That's just not how it works; you have to be willing to jump in and create something, give yourself a deadline, and ship it. Otherwise you're going to be talking forever about how you want to do something but you'll never actually finish anything. You have to be ok with not being awesome at something for awhile. You'll get better over time. Charli: That's really the key to producing content consistently; get used to not being perfect and learn as you go. You could wait until you know everything and get everything absolutely perfect, but then you wasted time you could have been building the habit of producing content. If you want to be successful in video or podcasting, make creating content a habit and not just something you do when you have “free time”. Charli: People ask me, “You've put out a video every Saturday for two and a half years, how do you do it?” I don't even think about it anymore; it's non-negotiable. A video will go up every Saturday because it's just a habit. Aaron: Do you find yourself getting faster and more efficient as time goes on? Charli: Definitely, but you don't want to settle in a rut. Your audience will get bored if they see the same thing every week. When things are getting too easy, that's when I try to learn something new to add to my process. Tips for Getting Started with Your First Videos Aaron: We got another question from Jordan. She asked, “I'm about to make my very first video ever (it's going to be part of my product launch). What are some things I should keep in mind?” Charli: Think beforehand about what the content of the video is going to be so that you can get all the right shots for it. You might even want to make a storyboard. You might end up needing to reshoot a few scenes because that's just how it goes. You might get to the editing part and realize that you need another shot or you need to re-record something. That's ok, it's just part of the process. Aaron: Do you create storyboards for your videos? Charli: Not all the time, but sometimes, usually if I'm doing a fashion video that requires a bunch of different angles, I'll just draw some rough sketches on a notebook to help me make sure I get all the shots. Aaron: I saw my friend Alex Cespedes (sorry I butchered your name in the show, dude) post a really interesting picture on Instagram showing how he outlines his podcast episodes on paper. I think that's a great way to plan a show or podcast episode. Charli: People plan in different ways. I create a rough script or outline for my video in the notes app on my phone and that's enough to get my mind thinking about what I'm going to say and how I need to say it. How to Create Consistently Aaron: What are your biggest struggles with creating consistently, and how do you overcome those? Charli: Time is always going to be a struggle. Even if you want to put something out every week, not every week is the same. In my life, I've got my day job, but that's also things to do in the evenings and I travel a lot, so I have to make sure I make enough time to create a video I'm proud of. It's always a struggle, but that's where building the habit comes in. Planning definitely helps with the time constraint as well; I break the process down into little steps so I can get things done whenever I have time. Don't try to fine-tune your content to perfection; give yourself a deadline and ship it. Aaron: One of my struggles is that there are always more projects that I want to do. I shoot myself in the foot by taking on too many things and not giving any one thing the focus it needs to be as successful as it can be. I try to do six things in a week and because I'm trying to work on all of them, I don't make much progress on any of them. Charli: You have to pick which thing is most important to you and make sure that one gets done. Then you can worry about the other things. Collaboration Can Help You Produce Consistently Aaron: You've got a co-host for your podcast. Does that help you get the show done every week? You do a lot of videos by yourself, so you'd probably be ok on your own, right? Charli: I don't think I would, no. I would not have a podcast if it wasn't for my co-host Femke. Since I do two videos every week, we split up the duties so that she does the editing and I do the show notes and our newsletter. But she does a lot more work than I do, which is really helpful. Aaron: It is really helpful to have someone hold you accountable and help you do the work that it takes to put a show out every week. Podcasting is a lot of work and there's nothing better than having a co-host who is really invested and willing to help with the work and keep you on track with producing. Q&A: Adina asked: How do I avoid looking awkward or sounding boring on camera? Charli: That's a question that everyone asks and something that everyone goes through.. The answer is just practice. You're going to make a lot of awkward videos before you start to feel comfortable. I don't know if I can pinpoint the exact moment where I started feeling comfortable talking to the camera, but it happened. After I made enough videos, it stopped being a weird thing. Vlogging really helped for me, just picking up the camera and talking to it as I went through my day. It felt more casual and less stressful then sitting down in front of lights to film. Aaron: It's the self-imposed pressure, right? We want to be as good as someone else we've seen. We see all these people making videos and podcasts and they always seem so fluid and cool and they've always got funny things to say. They've got 600,000 views and 300,000 likes and we think that's the level of quality we have to achieve, but it doesn't happen overnight. You won't get there in the first couple tries. Also, being a better speaker and communicator is something you can teach yourself. Unless you slow down and think critically about the way you talk and how you can improve, you won't improve. You can improve the way you talk. You can change the way that you talk and it will start to become the natural way that you talk with practice and time. Charli: When you first started podcasting, did you find listening to your own voice awkward? Aaron: Definitely. Charli: When I started making video, it was hard for me to watch and listen to myself, but now, I feel like I sound exactly like I do in my head. I don't know what changed, but it's not awkward anymore. Aaron: Part of it is just getting comfortable hearing yourself on recordings. You just get used to it after awhile. But I listen back to old episodes I've done and there are things I don't like about the way I sound, so I think about what I could have done differently to sound better. I try to learn from my mistakes and improve, and I have, slowly over time and with practice. Charli: When I listen back to my first 6 months of video, I don't sound like me; I sound like someone trying to make a video. Now I feel like I just sound like me, like I sound when I'm having a normal conversation. Aaron: We got a followup question: What about filming in public? I feel painfully embarrassed when I shoot video in public. I absolutely know what that feels like. I feel super weird about holding a phone or camera out and shooting a video in public. I don't even like people seeing me taking pictures of other people or myself in public. But I'm going to let Charli talk about this since she's gotten comfortable with recording video in public. Charli: I still feel awkward sometimes, like if I'm going to be sitting on a train with people on the way to work, I won't pull out my camera and talking to it. But if I'm walking down the street, I'm probably never going to see any of those people again. If I know I need to get a shot to explain something in my vlog later, then I just have to get over feeling weird and get the shot that I need. And it comes back to practice. Aaron: And really, what's the worst thing that could happen? Someone makes fun of you or looks at you like you're an idiot? Charli: Exactly, and don't think of it as you're talking to your phone or camera, you're talking to the person on the other side who is watching you later. You're not really talking to yourself, even if it looks like you are. Aaron: Now I'm thinking about how funny it would be to make a show where you just walk around in public all day, talking to yourself and catching people looking horrified or disgusted in the background. Charli: Even if you do feel self-conscious, do it anyway and at least you'll have all the shots you need. You can find Charli online at CharliMarie.com. Her Youtube channel is Charli Marie TV, and you can find her on Twitter and Instagram as well. She is also the co-host of Design Life, a fantastic podcast about design and side projects for motivated creators. Links: Podcast: https://podcastingwithaaron.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/aaronpodcasting Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/aarondowd Blog: https://www.aarondowd.com Recommended Gear: https://kit.co/podcastingwithaaron
Charli Prangley is a designer by day and a content creator by... well, pretty much the rest of the time. In addition to her day job, she produces two high-quality Youtube videos and a podcast every week, and also runs an online apparel shop. I was so impressed with the consistency and quality of her output that I knew I had to get her on the show to share how she creates so much while still working a full-time job.If you've ever struggled with creating consistently or trying to get everything 100% perfect before shipping, you need to listen to this episode.Key Takeaways:You don’t have to have the best camera or microphone to get started. Use what you have or what you can afford, and upgrade later.If you want someone to invest time in what you’re creating, show them a little bit of your personality but make sure you share content they’d be interested in.Sometimes you do have to “beat people over the head” to get them to check out a link. You might have to post a link multiple times in a week before someone actually sees it and clicks on it.Look for communities and people to collaborate and work with. It’s a great way to share and grow audiences.If you want to be successful in video or podcasting, make creating content a habit and not just something you do when you have “free time”.Don’t try to fine-tune your content to perfection; give yourself a deadline and ship it.Aaron: It seems like you’re constantly putting out content. I always see you tweeting about editing vlogs or your latest podcast episode. You post two videos to your YouTube channel every week in addition to your weekly podcast, Design Life. How do you manage to create so much while still working a full time job?Charli: When you create a lot of content online (like I do), everything in your life becomes an opportunity to create content and tell a story. If I go to an event, I think about what I’m going to learn that I can share with other people. This provides a constant stream of ideas that I can share in my videos or podcast episodes.Aaron: So you put a lot of content out consistently, and you’re seeing results; you’re almost to 25,000 subscribers on Youtube. Can you take us back to the beginning and share how and why you got started?Charli: I started my Youtube channel back in 2013 because I wanted to see into the lives of other designers, but I wasn’t finding the kind of content I was looking for. There were a lot of tutorials, but I wanted to get to know the people behind those tutorials.I decided to start my own YouTube channel so I could create lifestyle content from the perspective of a designer. Other designers discovered my channel because they were looking for the same thing. Having that unique point of view from the start really helped my channel grow.Aaron: So you made the show you wanted to watch, and it turned out that there are a lot of other people who wanted that show as well?Charli: Exactly. I try to think about what I would have found valuable in my early days of getting started as a designer, and then I create that content. It’s really rewarding when I hear from young designers who tell me how my content is helping them.Charli’s Gear SetupAaron: What kind of gear were you using when you started back in 2013?Charli: When I first started, I was using a Nikon D5000. It’s a DLSR but it can only record video for 5 minutes at a time and only in 720p. It didn’t have a flip-out screen or auto-focus in video mode, so there were a lot of challenges to overcome to get my video content made, but I stuck with it. It was about a year before I could afford an upgrade.Aaron: I started a video show recently, and I’ve been using my iPhone and a Shure MV88 mic, and I’ve already got better gear than you had (because I’ve got the front-facing screen to see myself). With smart phone cameras being as good as they are now, anyone can shoot video. What did you end up upgrading to?Charli: I got a Canon 70d which I really like. It’s a great all around camera for the price.You don’t have to have the best camera or microphone to get started. Use what you have or what you can afford, and upgrade later.Charli’s Tips for Growing an AudienceAaron: When you started producing video, did you have any kind of online following?Charli: Not really. I think I had around 1,000 followers on Twitter because I was pretty active in my design and tech scene in Wellington, NZ, so I suppose that’s where my first views came from.Aaron: Did you have a strategy for growing your audience?Charli: I knew a little bit about search engine optimization (because I was doing it at my job), so I thought about how I could apply that to my videos, but it was mostly trial-and-error. I paid attention to what worked, what thumbnails people preferred and what content they were interested in. But something I’ve done from the start was to make sure my videos were tagged well so that they come up in search. Today, about half of my views come from people searching YouTube. Don’t underestimate the value of SEO.Aaron: SEO is important. The way I like to explain it is just think about what people would search Google or Youtube for, and then use those words in your podcast or video title, or in headlines on your blog post. There’s a lot more to it than that, but that’s a great place to start.How to Get People to Pay Attention to Your ContentJordan Newhouse asks: I produce new content every week. How do I get people to realize the content is there and get them to check it out?Charli: Start by looping in all of your social media to the content you’re creating. You don’t want to be talking about yourself non-stop online, that’s not the way to have an interesting account.If you want someone to invest time in what you’re creating, show them a little bit of your personality but make sure you share content they’d be interested in.You have to share your content more than once. You can’t send out a tweet and expect everyone to notice. Some people might not be paying attention or they might be half-asleep; you have to share it anywhere and everywhere you can, in different ways. Try different titles to see what works.I create so much content so often that by the time I’m finished with a video, I’m already thinking about the next one, but I should be thinking about how to best promote the video I just made.Aaron: I used to feel weird about sharing links to my content more than once. I used to think people would be annoyed if they saw me post multiple links to content. I finally realized that most people just aren’t paying that close of attention to their social media streams.Sometimes you do have to “beat people over the head” to get them to check out a link. You might have to post a link multiple times in a week before someone actually sees it and clicks on it.How to Promote Your ContentCharli: One of the best ways to promote your content is in response to questions you see your audience asking. If one of your followers is discussing a topic you covered on your podcast, send them a link to that episode if you think they’d find it valuable.Aaron: I love doing that. Some of the podcasters I follow have their own hashtags, so I’ll use Twitter search to find people who are asking podcasting questions and send them links to my episodes where I answered their questions. If someone wants to learn, you would be doing them a disservice by not sending them a link to your content if it answers their question or would help them in some way.Participate in Your CommunityAaron: I talk a lot about the importance of participating in your community, inviting guests on your podcast and collaborating with other people. You participate in an active Youtube community, right?Charli: That’s something I love about Youtube, there’s a very active community there. Everyone’s very collaborative, it’s easy to create video with other people and combine your audiences.Look for communities and people to collaborate and work with. It’s a great way to share and grow audiences.Create Content in Multiple Mediums and Build a Creation HabitAaron: You started a podcast recently. Did you find it easier since you’ve been creating video for a couple years?Charli: There was definitely a learning curve, just like getting started with video. There were all these new things to learn like what kind of microphone to buy, how to record and edit, and how to get your show into iTunes. It seems like it should be easy, just hit record and make a podcast, but it’s really not that simple.Aaron: One of my friends wants to start a podcast, but he wants to get everything perfect right away. That’s just not how it works; you have to be willing to jump in and create something, give yourself a deadline, and ship it. Otherwise you’re going to be talking forever about how you want to do something but you’ll never actually finish anything. You have to be ok with not being awesome at something for awhile. You’ll get better over time.Charli: That’s really the key to producing content consistently; get used to not being perfect and learn as you go. You could wait until you know everything and get everything absolutely perfect, but then you wasted time you could have been building the habit of producing content.If you want to be successful in video or podcasting, make creating content a habit and not just something you do when you have “free time”.Charli: People ask me, “You’ve put out a video every Saturday for two and a half years, how do you do it?” I don’t even think about it anymore; it’s non-negotiable. A video will go up every Saturday because it’s just a habit.Aaron: Do you find yourself getting faster and more efficient as time goes on?Charli: Definitely, but you don’t want to settle in a rut. Your audience will get bored if they see the same thing every week. When things are getting too easy, that’s when I try to learn something new to add to my process.Tips for Getting Started with Your First VideosAaron: We got another question from Jordan. She asked, “I’m about to make my very first video ever (it’s going to be part of my product launch). What are some things I should keep in mind?”Charli: Think beforehand about what the content of the video is going to be so that you can get all the right shots for it. You might even want to make a storyboard.You might end up needing to reshoot a few scenes because that’s just how it goes. You might get to the editing part and realize that you need another shot or you need to re-record something. That’s ok, it’s just part of the process.Aaron: Do you create storyboards for your videos?Charli: Not all the time, but sometimes, usually if I’m doing a fashion video that requires a bunch of different angles, I’ll just draw some rough sketches on a notebook to help me make sure I get all the shots.Aaron: I saw my friend Alex Cespedes (sorry I butchered your name in the show, dude) post a really interesting picture on Instagram showing how he outlines his podcast episodes on paper. I think that’s a great way to plan a show or podcast episode.Charli: People plan in different ways. I create a rough script or outline for my video in the notes app on my phone and that’s enough to get my mind thinking about what I’m going to say and how I need to say it.How to Create ConsistentlyAaron: What are your biggest struggles with creating consistently, and how do you overcome those?Charli: Time is always going to be a struggle. Even if you want to put something out every week, not every week is the same. In my life, I’ve got my day job, but that’s also things to do in the evenings and I travel a lot, so I have to make sure I make enough time to create a video I’m proud of. It’s always a struggle, but that’s where building the habit comes in. Planning definitely helps with the time constraint as well; I break the process down into little steps so I can get things done whenever I have time.Don’t try to fine-tune your content to perfection; give yourself a deadline and ship it.Aaron: One of my struggles is that there are always more projects that I want to do. I shoot myself in the foot by taking on too many things and not giving any one thing the focus it needs to be as successful as it can be. I try to do six things in a week and because I’m trying to work on all of them, I don’t make much progress on any of them.Charli: You have to pick which thing is most important to you and make sure that one gets done. Then you can worry about the other things.Collaboration Can Help You Produce ConsistentlyAaron: You’ve got a co-host for your podcast. Does that help you get the show done every week? You do a lot of videos by yourself, so you’d probably be ok on your own, right?Charli: I don’t think I would, no. I would not have a podcast if it wasn’t for my co-host Femke. Since I do two videos every week, we split up the duties so that she does the editing and I do the show notes and our newsletter. But she does a lot more work than I do, which is really helpful.Aaron: It is really helpful to have someone hold you accountable and help you do the work that it takes to put a show out every week. Podcasting is a lot of work and there’s nothing better than having a co-host who is really invested and willing to help with the work and keep you on track with producing.Q&A:Adina asked: How do I avoid looking awkward or sounding boring on camera?Charli: That’s a question that everyone asks and something that everyone goes through.. The answer is just practice. You’re going to make a lot of awkward videos before you start to feel comfortable.I don’t know if I can pinpoint the exact moment where I started feeling comfortable talking to the camera, but it happened. After I made enough videos, it stopped being a weird thing. Vlogging really helped for me, just picking up the camera and talking to it as I went through my day. It felt more casual and less stressful then sitting down in front of lights to film.Aaron: It’s the self-imposed pressure, right? We want to be as good as someone else we’ve seen. We see all these people making videos and podcasts and they always seem so fluid and cool and they’ve always got funny things to say. They’ve got 600,000 views and 300,000 likes and we think that’s the level of quality we have to achieve, but it doesn’t happen overnight. You won’t get there in the first couple tries.Also, being a better speaker and communicator is something you can teach yourself. Unless you slow down and think critically about the way you talk and how you can improve, you won’t improve. You can improve the way you talk. You can change the way that you talk and it will start to become the natural way that you talk with practice and time.Charli: When you first started podcasting, did you find listening to your own voice awkward?Aaron: Definitely.Charli: When I started making video, it was hard for me to watch and listen to myself, but now, I feel like I sound exactly like I do in my head. I don’t know what changed, but it’s not awkward anymore.Aaron: Part of it is just getting comfortable hearing yourself on recordings. You just get used to it after awhile. But I listen back to old episodes I’ve done and there are things I don’t like about the way I sound, so I think about what I could have done differently to sound better. I try to learn from my mistakes and improve, and I have, slowly over time and with practice.Charli: When I listen back to my first 6 months of video, I don’t sound like me; I sound like someone trying to make a video. Now I feel like I just sound like me, like I sound when I’m having a normal conversation.Aaron: We got a followup question: What about filming in public? I feel painfully embarrassed when I shoot video in public.I absolutely know what that feels like. I feel super weird about holding a phone or camera out and shooting a video in public. I don’t even like people seeing me taking pictures of other people or myself in public. But I’m going to let Charli talk about this since she’s gotten comfortable with recording video in public.Charli: I still feel awkward sometimes, like if I’m going to be sitting on a train with people on the way to work, I won’t pull out my camera and talking to it. But if I’m walking down the street, I’m probably never going to see any of those people again. If I know I need to get a shot to explain something in my vlog later, then I just have to get over feeling weird and get the shot that I need. And it comes back to practice.Aaron: And really, what’s the worst thing that could happen? Someone makes fun of you or looks at you like you’re an idiot?Charli: Exactly, and don’t think of it as you’re talking to your phone or camera, you’re talking to the person on the other side who is watching you later. You’re not really talking to yourself, even if it looks like you are.Aaron: Now I’m thinking about how funny it would be to make a show where you just walk around in public all day, talking to yourself and catching people looking horrified or disgusted in the background.Charli: Even if you do feel self-conscious, do it anyway and at least you’ll have all the shots you need.You can find Charli online at CharliMarie.com. Her Youtube channel is Charli Marie TV, and you can find her on Twitter and Instagram as well. She is also the co-host of Design Life, a fantastic podcast about design and side projects for motivated creators.Links:Podcast: https://podcastingwithaaron.comTwitter: https://twitter.com/aaronpodcastingYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/aarondowdBlog: https://www.aarondowd.comRecommended Gear: https://kit.co/podcastingwithaaron
The introduction to your podcast (the first 30-60 seconds) is a critical part of the success of your show. If you don't introduce yourself, new listeners will feel lost. If your intro is too long, people will get annoyed and switch to listen to something else. Listeners want to know what they're going to get out of an episode. If you don't tell them that right away, they're going to start wondering if there's a better way to spend their time, and maybe go find a different podcast to listen to. I don't want you to lose listeners, so today I'm talking about how to make a great podcast intro. Key Takeaways: Listeners want to know what they're going to get out of an episode, so tell them within the 30-60 seconds (if not sooner). Assume that you're going to get new listeners every week. Try to craft a short intro that will tell them everything they need to know about you and your show. Your intro should include who you are and why you're doing your podcast. Try to keep it as short as possible but make sure it communicates those things. A professional voiceover can make your show seem more legit, but it runs the risk of being repetitious and boring to your regular listeners after awhile. It's your job as a podcast host to tell your listener why they should care about listening to your podcast. Don't assume they care; make them care. Make sure that you're doing shows about things you really care about, make sure that your heart is in it. Here's what I'm going to cover today: Why you need to introduce yourself at the beginning of every episode Why you shouldn't assume that everyone knows your story How to give your listener enough information without going too far and boring them The pros and cons of professional voiceovers How to apply this advice to your website homepage (and get more engagement from your visitors) Introduce Yourself Every Episode You need to introduce yourself at the beginning of every episode and tell your audience what you're going to talk about in the episode. Charli Prangley said: On our podcast (Design Life), we include a snippet of a takeaway at the start before the intro music so that people can figure out immediately if this is an episode they're interested in. Then we introduce the topic and say why we're talking about it. We also do a quick ‘check in' about how our week has been and what we've achieved with our projects (which gives our listeners context as to what we're working on and how we spend our time outside of the podcast). Charli is doing it right. You should introduce yourself at the beginning of every show. Tell the audience your name (or names if you have co-hosts), and tell them what you hope to do for them in the episode, or what you're going to talk about. This is important because everyone who hits play on a podcast is wondering (whether they realize or not) what they're going to get out of it. If you answer this question for them right away, then your listener is less likely to switch to a different show. Listeners want to know what they're going to get out of an episode, so tell them within the first 60 seconds. Don't Assume Everyone Knows Your Story After you've been podcasting for awhile, it's tempting to just jump into a topic right away. But you need to think about the new listeners who are checking out your episode for the first time. What info do they need? How can you deliver that most efficiently? At the very least, a new listener needs to know your name and why you're doing your podcast. You don't want to have a 5 minute introduction every single episode, but you need to communicate that basic information for the newcomers. Assume that you're going to get new listeners every week. Try to craft a short intro that will tell them everything they need to know about you and your show. For your regular listeners, maybe include a new, random or funny fact about yourself in your intro every week. I'd like to start doing this myself. Your intro should include who you are and why you're doing your podcast. Try to keep it as short as possible but make sure it communicates those things. Professional Intros VS DIY Intros It's entirely up to you to decide what kind of show you want to make and what kind of feel you want it to have. I prefer to do the introduction myself. It feels more personal that way, plus I can change things up every week if I feel like it. Karma Senge asks: Should you copy and paste your intro and have the same exact one in every episode or should you do your intro new every time? It is a good idea to have a template for your intro, but I think a static intro starts to feel boring to regular listeners after a few episodes. A professional voiceover can make your show seem more legit, but it runs the risk of being repetitious and boring to your normal listeners after awhile. Should I include a funny part of the podcast at the beginning? Cory McCabe asked: Do you put in the intro the best part of the podcast? Or just a good section of it? As editor for the seanwes network, one of my tasks is to pick out a short section of the podcast to use as an intro. This section plays before the intro music for the various shows. During the show, I listen for short sections that are either valuable insights or funny (sometimes even both). My goal is to either give the listener a valuable takeaway from the episode or make them laugh. So yes, I do think you should find a funny or interesting clip for the intro, if it makes sense to do so for your show. Bonus Tip: Make your website home page about your visitor This advice applies to your website's landing page as well (if you make a podcast or if you're a freelancer). If the first thing a person sees when visiting your website “me, me, me, me, here's what I do”, that's not great. Instead, tell your visitor what you are going to do for them. Make the first thing they see about them, not about you. Start with your why. Don't tell your audience what you do, tell them WHY you do it. Check out Simon Sinek's book Start With Why. If you make a podcast, or blog, or vlog, or run a small business, you should check this book out. Q&A: Garrett Mickley said: Tip for what NOT to do: I listened to a podcast that I was disappointed with episode one so I waited 20 episodes to listen again and was disappointed in episode 20. The episode 1 issue was that it sounded like it was recorded in a park in downtown Manhattan. Way too much background noise. But the 20th episode had excellent audio quality. The problem was he spent the first 10 minutes talking about himself and the podcast and not even what that episode was about. Then he started plugging his courses and I was like, “dude, what is this episode even about? You haven't provided any value yet!” Then he just word for word read a blog post he had written about a year ago that I had already read (a year ago) and it was nice to hear it again but I wish he wouldn't have just read it off to us. The ONLY reason I didn't turn it off in the first 5 minutes of him talking about himself was because I was washing dishes and my hands were wet. Otherwise I would have stopped listening pretty quickly. Audio quality is important, and it takes time to develop that, but if you aren't telling listeners up front what kind of value you're going to provide in the episode and you just start rambling, they're going to tune out. I've stopped listening to many shows because the hosts stopped respecting my time. It's your job as a podcast host to tell your listener why they should care about listening to your podcast. Don't assume they care; make them care. Scott Hofford asked: Are there certain things that you shouldn't say that makes you lose listeners? If you podcast long enough, eventually someone is going to disagree with something you say. That's fine. The bigger mistake is either not saying anything because you're worried that you might offend someone else, or not feeling confident in what you do say. If you don't believe that you have something good to offer to your listener, they're going to pick up on that, because no one follows someone who doesn't believe in what they're doing. Make sure that you're doing shows about things you really care about, make sure that your heart is in it. Taylor West asked: When using a prerecorded interview in your podcast, is it more effective to add an intro that you record later (possibly even days later after the interview) introducing the interviewee and explaining the episode? Or do you give an intro at the beginning of the actual interview, right before you start the discussion? I'm gonna say both. A lot of people do interviews without a real plan for what they're going to talk about, and that can work out fine, especially if you're good at interviewing. But thinking about it from my perspective as a podcast listeners: I like to know up front what the interview is going to be about, even if it's just a broad overview of the topics covered. I like shows where the host plans out those things in advance and tells me at the beginning of the show what the topics are. It is a good idea to record the interview and then go back and record an intro where you share some of the most valuable takeaways from the episode. It's like providing a table of contents for your podcast episode. Even though it's in audio form, you can still say, “Here's a list of all the subjects we're going to talk about.” Cool Stuff to Check Out: Recommended Gear: https://kit.com/thepodcastdude Podcast: https://thepodcastdude.simplecast.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/thepodcastdude Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/thepodcastdude Successful Podcasting: http://successfulpodcasting.com Simplecast Blog: http://blog.simplecast.com/
The introduction to your podcast (the first 30-60 seconds) is a critical part of the success of your show. If you don’t introduce yourself, new listeners will feel lost. If your intro is too long, people will get annoyed and switch to listen to something else. Listeners want to know what they’re going to get out of an episode. If you don't tell them that right away, they're going to start wondering if there's a better way to spend their time, and maybe go find a different podcast to listen to. I don't want you to lose listeners, so today I'm talking about how to make a great podcast intro. Key Takeaways: Listeners want to know what they’re going to get out of an episode, so tell them within the 30-60 seconds (if not sooner). Assume that you’re going to get new listeners every week. Try to craft a short intro that will tell them everything they need to know about you and your show. Your intro should include who you are and why you’re doing your podcast. Try to keep it as short as possible but make sure it communicates those things. A professional voiceover can make your show seem more legit, but it runs the risk of being repetitious and boring to your regular listeners after awhile. It’s your job as a podcast host to tell your listener why they should care about listening to your podcast. Don’t assume they care; make them care. Make sure that you’re doing shows about things you really care about, make sure that your heart is in it. Here’s what I’m going to cover today: Why you need to introduce yourself at the beginning of every episode Why you shouldn’t assume that everyone knows your story How to give your listener enough information without going too far and boring them The pros and cons of professional voiceovers How to apply this advice to your website homepage (and get more engagement from your visitors) Introduce Yourself Every Episode You need to introduce yourself at the beginning of every episode and tell your audience what you’re going to talk about in the episode. Charli Prangley said: On our podcast (Design Life), we include a snippet of a takeaway at the start before the intro music so that people can figure out immediately if this is an episode they’re interested in. Then we introduce the topic and say why we’re talking about it. We also do a quick ‘check in’ about how our week has been and what we’ve achieved with our projects (which gives our listeners context as to what we’re working on and how we spend our time outside of the podcast). Charli is doing it right. You should introduce yourself at the beginning of every show. Tell the audience your name (or names if you have co-hosts), and tell them what you hope to do for them in the episode, or what you’re going to talk about. This is important because everyone who hits play on a podcast is wondering (whether they realize or not) what they’re going to get out of it. If you answer this question for them right away, then your listener is less likely to switch to a different show. Listeners want to know what they’re going to get out of an episode, so tell them within the first 60 seconds. Don’t Assume Everyone Knows Your Story After you’ve been podcasting for awhile, it’s tempting to just jump into a topic right away. But you need to think about the new listeners who are checking out your episode for the first time. What info do they need? How can you deliver that most efficiently? At the very least, a new listener needs to know your name and why you’re doing your podcast. You don’t want to have a 5 minute introduction every single episode, but you need to communicate that basic information for the newcomers. Assume that you’re going to get new listeners every week. Try to craft a short intro that will tell them everything they need to know about you and your show. For your regular listeners, maybe include a new, random or funny fact about yourself in your intro every week. I’d like to start doing this myself. Your intro should include who you are and why you’re doing your podcast. Try to keep it as short as possible but make sure it communicates those things. Professional Intros VS DIY Intros It’s entirely up to you to decide what kind of show you want to make and what kind of feel you want it to have. I prefer to do the introduction myself. It feels more personal that way, plus I can change things up every week if I feel like it. Karma Senge asks: Should you copy and paste your intro and have the same exact one in every episode or should you do your intro new every time? It is a good idea to have a template for your intro, but I think a static intro starts to feel boring to regular listeners after a few episodes. A professional voiceover can make your show seem more legit, but it runs the risk of being repetitious and boring to your normal listeners after awhile. Should I include a funny part of the podcast at the beginning? Cory McCabe asked: Do you put in the intro the best part of the podcast? Or just a good section of it? As editor for the seanwes network, one of my tasks is to pick out a short section of the podcast to use as an intro. This section plays before the intro music for the various shows. During the show, I listen for short sections that are either valuable insights or funny (sometimes even both). My goal is to either give the listener a valuable takeaway from the episode or make them laugh. So yes, I do think you should find a funny or interesting clip for the intro, if it makes sense to do so for your show. Bonus Tip: Make your website home page about your visitor This advice applies to your website’s landing page as well (if you make a podcast or if you’re a freelancer). If the first thing a person sees when visiting your website “me, me, me, me, here’s what I do”, that’s not great. Instead, tell your visitor what you are going to do for them. Make the first thing they see about them, not about you. Start with your why. Don’t tell your audience what you do, tell them WHY you do it. Check out Simon Sinek’s book Start With Why. If you make a podcast, or blog, or vlog, or run a small business, you should check this book out. Q&A: Garrett Mickley said: Tip for what NOT to do: I listened to a podcast that I was disappointed with episode one so I waited 20 episodes to listen again and was disappointed in episode 20. The episode 1 issue was that it sounded like it was recorded in a park in downtown Manhattan. Way too much background noise. But the 20th episode had excellent audio quality. The problem was he spent the first 10 minutes talking about himself and the podcast and not even what that episode was about. Then he started plugging his courses and I was like, “dude, what is this episode even about? You haven’t provided any value yet!” Then he just word for word read a blog post he had written about a year ago that I had already read (a year ago) and it was nice to hear it again but I wish he wouldn’t have just read it off to us. The ONLY reason I didn’t turn it off in the first 5 minutes of him talking about himself was because I was washing dishes and my hands were wet. Otherwise I would have stopped listening pretty quickly. Audio quality is important, and it takes time to develop that, but if you aren’t telling listeners up front what kind of value you’re going to provide in the episode and you just start rambling, they’re going to tune out. I’ve stopped listening to many shows because the hosts stopped respecting my time. It’s your job as a podcast host to tell your listener why they should care about listening to your podcast. Don’t assume they care; make them care. Scott Hofford asked: Are there certain things that you shouldn’t say that makes you lose listeners? If you podcast long enough, eventually someone is going to disagree with something you say. That’s fine. The bigger mistake is either not saying anything because you’re worried that you might offend someone else, or not feeling confident in what you do say. If you don’t believe that you have something good to offer to your listener, they’re going to pick up on that, because no one follows someone who doesn’t believe in what they’re doing. Make sure that you’re doing shows about things you really care about, make sure that your heart is in it. Taylor West asked: When using a prerecorded interview in your podcast, is it more effective to add an intro that you record later (possibly even days later after the interview) introducing the interviewee and explaining the episode? Or do you give an intro at the beginning of the actual interview, right before you start the discussion? I’m gonna say both. A lot of people do interviews without a real plan for what they’re going to talk about, and that can work out fine, especially if you’re good at interviewing. But thinking about it from my perspective as a podcast listeners: I like to know up front what the interview is going to be about, even if it’s just a broad overview of the topics covered. I like shows where the host plans out those things in advance and tells me at the beginning of the show what the topics are. It is a good idea to record the interview and then go back and record an intro where you share some of the most valuable takeaways from the episode. It’s like providing a table of contents for your podcast episode. Even though it’s in audio form, you can still say, “Here’s a list of all the subjects we’re going to talk about.” Cool Stuff to Check Out: Recommended Gear: https://kit.com/thepodcastdude Podcast: https://thepodcastdude.simplecast.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/thepodcastdude Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/thepodcastdude Successful Podcasting: http://successfulpodcasting.com Simplecast Blog: http://blog.simplecast.com/
Charli and Femke join Aleen to talk about side projects, making things happen, getting up early, and moving far away from home!
If you've thought about starting a podcast but haven't yet, this episode is for you. I want to address some of the reasons and fears you might have that are keeping you from starting a podcast or any kind of creative output that can help you grow an audience and establish you as an authority in your field. My goal is to break you out of the mindset that you might be in (the one that is keeping you from starting), and motivate you to start taking the steps towards launching your podcast. Key Takeaways: Start a podcast about whatever you are most passionate about. If you care about it, talk about it. You won’t run out of topics. The longer you podcast, the more things you’ll find to talk about. What community do you want to become a part of? What community are you already a part of, and do you want to become known as an expert? You don’t have to understand everything about making audio sound good before you start. You don’t have to get editing right the first time. Improve as you go. No one is going to kick you off the internet if you mess something up. After you get over the initial learning curve, you will get faster. Like anything else, the more you do it, the easier it becomes. We all have an equal amount of time in the day. It’s up to us to decide how to use it. In my brainstorming and research for this episode, I went through my email archive, searched Google, and asked folks what was keeping them from starting a podcast. Here’s the list of things I kept seeing pop up. 7 Reasons People Don’t Start a Podcast: I’m not sure what to podcast about, or what topics I should cover. I don’t know anything about recording or editing audio. I don’t have enough money to buy good gear. It seems like so many people are already podcasting. Why would anyone care what I have to say, and how do I stand out? I don’t have the time. I’m not good at speaking. I don’t know anything about making a website or podcast hosting. Roadblock #1. I’m Not Sure What to Podcast About, or What Topics I Should Cover. I get this. I was asking myself this question for about a year before I finally started my podcast. I was worried that after a few months I would run out of things to talk about. I was also worried that the topics I covered wouldn’t be interesting to my audience (more on that later). I have a few questions for you to help to you figure out what you should be podcasting about. First, what are you passionate about? What do you spend most of your time thinking about? What are you constantly excited about learning about? What do you love spending your time on? Start a podcast about whatever you are most passionate about. If you care about it, talk about it. There are so many examples of people make great podcasts that I could bring in, but I just want to mention a couple so you can see examples of people who have found success by podcasting about their passion. Chris Coyier has two podcasts; the Shoptalk Show and CodePen Radio. Both are focused around his passion, which is web design and development. He loves learning about web design, so he started the Shoptalk Show with another guy who loves web design, Dave Rupert. They talk about web design and interview people who love talking about web design. They invite their audience to ask questions about web design so they have more to talk about. This is one of the reasons their show is so successful: the hosts are passionate about web design and they’ve consistently shown up every week for the past three years to talk about what they love. Ryan Young (from the punk band Off With Their Heads) start a podcast called Anxious and Angry back in March of 2014 because he wanted to share his struggles with depression, anger, and the difficulties of being a independent touring musician. He’s obviously passionate about music, but like so many people (especially in punk rock, it seems), he struggles with self-destructive tendencies. So he talks about those things, and asks listeners to write in questions or share their struggles. He also interviews other musicians and highlights music from bands that he likes. Graham Cochrane from TheRecordingRevolution.com and Joe Gilder from HomeStudioCorner.com are both passionate about writing, recording, mixing and mastering music. They have created huge communities of people who share their passion because they share everything they learn and ask their audience what they’re struggling with. You won’t run out of topics. The longer you podcast, the more things you’ll find to talk about. What I’ve realized in my short time of producing a podcast is that the more I do it, the more topics I find to share. I feel like after ten shows, I’m just starting to see the tip of the iceberg of the topics that I could do podcasts about. I believe there are two reasons for this. Since I’ve committed to producing a show every week, I’ve started capturing topics as I come across them. I’m following and listening to people who share my passion for podcasting to see what they’re talking about. I get inspiration from them, I learn from them, and then I share what I’ve learned in my own words; through the lens of my experience. I’m becoming part of the broader conversation about podcasting. As I produce more and more content, people are beginning to see me as an expert in this field and they’ve started asking me questions. This keeps me grounded and connected to what my audience is struggling with and what they’re interested in. I encourage this by asking for questions and feedback. I want to know what other people are thinking and what their opinions are about the things I share on my show. What community do you want to become a part of? What community are you already a part of, and do you want to become known as an expert? If you start a podcast about whatever it is you’re passionate about, you’ll build relationships. You’ll make new friends. You’ll get new work opportunities. The same will be true for the people that become a part of your community through your podcast. Who is Your Audience of One? I heard a question the other day that I really liked. Who is your audience of one? The idea is that you should create your podcast for one other person. Have a clear idea in your mind about who that person is, and what they are interested in. Chances are, if you are passionate about something there are plenty of other people out there who are equally passionate about it. My audience of one is someone interested in learning about podcasting. So I ask myself, if I was hanging out with someone who was interested in podcasting, what kinds of questions would they ask me? What would we talk about? What would they be interested in hearing me talk about? If you have a business, or if you’re some kind of professional or aspiring professional, what can you talk about that would help potential clients? What stories can you share? What could you teach someone who is brand new to the field? What could you teach or share with someone who is at or around your level of expertise? These are the things I keep in mind when preparing for my shows, and I think if you think about those questions, they’ll help you find and shape the message of your podcast. Should I Create Content for Potential Clients or Other Professionals Who Share My Passion? Brent Galloway asked: With the content I produce, should I be concerned with it attracting two different audiences (other designers and potential clients)? Most of my content will be design oriented, but my site’s primary goal is to bring in client work. This is tricky: Should you podcast or create content for the other people who share your passion or for potential clients? I think creating for the other people that share your passion will attract clients that want to work with people who are known for being an expert. If the client skims your list of podcast or video titles and they see the wealth of knowledge you’ve shared, they will trust that you have experience, and they’ll feel confident that you are capable of solving their problems for them. This will help you attract the right kind of client as well: Clients who want to hire you for your expertise and not because you’re the cheapest option. Roadblock #2. I Don’t Know Anything About Recording or Editing Audio. I talk a lot about the importance of audio quality because I believe high-quality audio is one of the most overlooked factors in why some shows are more successful than others. I want you to have a successful show, and sounding great can help your show be successful and grow. What I don’t want is for you to wait to publish anything until you have the perfect setup and the perfect sound. You’re not ever going to get there. I know, because I’m already looking at upgrading microphones and I’m constantly looking for ways to improve my sound. You don’t have to understand everything about making audio sound good before you start. You don’t have to get editing right the first time. I’m going to share a short story here about my drumming career, how I got started, and how it relates to podcasting. When I started playing drums at 12 years old, it was because I was intrigued by them. I wanted to learn how to play this instrument that had so many different pieces and sounds. I wanted to participate in a band; be the guy who held down the rhythm. There were so many things I didn’t know. I didn’t know any of the brands of the companies that made drums and cymbals. I didn’t know anything about how the size of the drums affected the way they sound. I didn’t understand or have much control over the dynamics of my playing. I certainly didn’t have any idea of how to make a living as a musician, but that didn’t keep me from getting started. The very first step was pick up the drumsticks. After that, I learned a few common rhythm patterns (called rudiments), then I sat down behind a drum set and I learned how to play a couple of basic rock beats. Eventually, I learned how to play entire songs. Fast forward 13 years and almost 10,000 hours or practice later, and I was playing in front of hundreds of people, getting paid money to play drums. I’m telling you this because you have to take that first step if you want to get better. Then you have to take the next step, and the next step, and you have to keep taking steps. What is the First Step in Starting a Podcast? The first step to starting a podcast is deciding what you want your show to be about. The more specific, the better, as you'll need to be able to quickly describe what your show is about in order to convince people to listen to it. After you’ve decided on your show topic or focus, try recording a practice episode. Find a quiet room, pick up your iPhone (or whatever smart phone you have), open the voice recorder app, and hold it a foot from your face (microphone pointed at you). Talk for 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, an hour. If you aren’t used to talking out loud to your phone, it might feel a little weird at first, but it’ll get easier over time. Recording practice episode is a great way to get comfortable with recording. Roadblock #3. I Don’t Have Enough Money to Buy Good Gear. At some point, you might want to upgrade microphones, but you don’t need a $500 setup to be a podcaster. You can get started for almost nothing. When I started playing drums, I had a pair of sticks and a little practice pad. After a year, my parents bought me a used $300 drum kit (it was crap). After ten years, I had upgraded to over $2000 worth of professional gear, but that professional gear wouldn’t have made me a better drummer in the beginning. I had to learn how to play drums before the gear even mattered. Professional gear will not make you a professional podcaster. Improve as you go. No one is going to kick you off the internet if you mess something up. You don't have to get everything perfect the first time, or even the first twenty times. It’s a journey, not a pass/fail test. The important thing is to start and then keep going. If you care about getting better, you’ll find ways to improve and get better as you go. Roadblock #4. It Seems Like so Many People are Already Podcasting. Why Would Anyone Care What I Have to Say, and How Do I Stand Out? “No one is going to care” is just an excuse we tell ourselves because we are afraid of rejection or not receiving attention. There are tons of people out there that need the knowledge you can share. Maybe you won’t start off with thousands of listeners, but everyone has to start somewhere. If you clearly define the “why” of your podcast, other people who share your interests will find you. This is the beauty of the internet. When you start, you might be podcasting to no one. That’s ok. Keep going. Go out and find the questions that people in your audience are asking. Don’t have an audience yet? Think about what kind of people you want in your audience, and then find out what they’re asking or looking for. Roadblock #5. I Don’t Have the Time. This is true for all of us especially if you are motivated, if you have a lot of projects and passions, if you have a family or a full time job. It’s hard to find time. It’s hard to make time, but that’s what you have to do. Eric Friedensohn said: The main thing that is keeping me from starting a podcast is that I can see how much work goes into making a good one, and it’s pretty daunting. Lately I have been sticking to mediums and platforms that are working for me, rather than jumping into a whole new world and adding that onto my weekly plate. Podcasting does take time, but there are different levels of commitment and how much time each episode will take you. One of the guys I mentioned earlier, Joe Gilder (who does the Home Studio Corner podcast), gives himself an hour to produce each episode. 45 minutes to prepare and record, and then 15 minutes to edit, write basic show notes and publish. I know he can do each episode in an hour because he has experience and has his workflow down, but it is possible to record and publish an episode in less than a couple hours. After you get over the initial learning curve, you will get faster. Like anything else, the more you do it, the easier it becomes. Charli Prangley said: What’s holding me back from starting a design blog (which I really want to do to start trying to get client work) is all my other projects I’m committed to and LOVE doing. I thought this was interesting, so I just wanted to bring up a few questions: What if you could get better clients if you blogged consistently for a year? What if you could work with people you look up to and respect? Do you currently have any projects that you aren’t super stoked about? Do you foresee yourself wanting to transition into something else later down the line? I’m not here to convince you to start a podcast or a blog. If what you are doing is working well for you, that’s fine. Keep doing it. If you have plenty of money but are short on time, you can hire people to help you with editing, show notes, and admin work. A lot of people hire podcast editors and assistants to help with their podcasts. They spend maybe an hour each week preparing for their show, then they record, and after that, they don’t have to do anything else. The show gets fixed up and published. There’s no rule that says you have to record an hour long podcast and write 5,000 words of show notes. When you’re just starting out, it’s ok to limit your show to 15 minutes or less. As you get better and more experienced, you might find yourself wanting to do longer shows. Podcasting is a Good Investment of Your Time I heard a great story recently on the Mac Power Users podcast. The author of a popular blog about Apple called Daring Fireball – John Gruber – described how he got a full time job from someone who was a reader of his site. So if I told you that if you invested an hour or two of your time every week to create a podcast it would eventually lead to better job opportunities or new clients, would you invest that time? Something else to consider: Are there things that you could give up to create time for podcasting? How much time are you spending browsing social media or Reddit? How much TV do you watch every week? We all have an equal amount of time in the day. It’s up to us to decide how to use it. Roadblock #6. I’m Not Good at Speaking. Friend of the show Brent Galloway posted his first Youtube video today. We were talking about it in the chat earlier, and Sean said something to Brent that I thought was really profound, so I want to share it with you here. Sean said (to Brent): It’s crazy, you probably feel like you’re just sort of sticking your neck out there and you see all the things you need to improve and do better, but for every one Brent, there are 99 others who just sit back and passively listen. You are the 1% of people who are actually doing and you’re so far ahead. I know what it feels like to be dissatisfied with your voice. Recording a podcast is hard. You want to do a good job so you’re stressing about it. After you record, you listen back and you think, this is terrible. I can’t believe I messed up that word. I can’t believe I talked in monotone for 15 minutes. Sean is right. If we put ourselves out there, if we try, if we create stuff, there are going to be 100 other people that are going to consume what we make, but they aren’t going to be creating themselves because it is hard. It is a risk and it is scary putting yourself out there. If you feel like you aren’t a good speaker, I encourage you to go listen to episode 9 of this podcast, What If I Don’t Like My Voice? You find tons of useful information there. Also check out the work by Roger Love. He’s created a lot of great content about speaking publicly. Roadblock #7. I Don’t Know Anything About Making a Website or Hosting. The good news is that you don’t have to have a full website to start a podcast. Simplecast is $15/month and will give you everything you need. No coding, graphic design or complicated setup required. Q&A: Garrett asks: I’m afraid (the thing I make) will take off (because it will) and then people will start looking into my history and they’ll find my high school livejournal that I can’t remember the password for. I wouldn’t worry about it too much. I think we all have those old embarrassing blogs. The good news is that most people are not going to care enough to go digging around in your past. If they do, it’s probably because they really like you and they want a deeper connection. They probably have old embarrassing blogs of their own. I wouldn’t worry about the tiny number of people that might go snooping around just to dig up dirt; those people are jerks and no one likes them anyways. Ben Toalson asks: I don’t have time to do a podcast AND a weekly blog AND a weekly newsletter AND a weekly vlog. What should I focus on? Ben, you are already doing three of those four things, which is more than what most people do. For those of you who don’t know who Ben Toalson is, he’s the co-host of the seanwes podcast, and he does a show with his wife called In the Boat With Ben (a podcast on balancing family life with a creative pursuit). He does a weekly podcast, but he also writes extensive show notes (what I would call a blog post), and sends those show notes out to an email list. That’s how we do things on the seanwes network. You can do something similar with your show. It is a lot of work, but it’s easier than producing three separate pieces of content every week (podcast, blog post, email newsletter). Start with writing, then repurpose that content for different mediums as much as possible. Sarah asked: My husband and I did about 30 episodes of our podcast but now it’s at a standstill (because of me). Not sure if I want to continue with it. Not really gaining traction (that I know of) and also I’m not sure what I’m trying to get out of it. I think he was more into it than I was. How long should it take to start receiving feedback, comments and a little more traffic from a podcast if done regularly? If you create a show that isn’t gaining traction or resonating with anyone, I would take a hard look at the content. Are you addressing topics that your audience are interested in? Are you asking for feedback and questions? Are you having conversations with people about the topics? Regularly producing a podcast isn’t good enough if you aren’t creating content that resonates with people. If your podcast is extremely niche, there may not be that many people who share your passion and are also interested in listening to your podcast. You should also take a close look at audio quality and SEO. If you have a podcast and you’re doing a good job with your titles (they should be something your audience would want to click on), but you aren’t writing much in terms of show notes, you’re missing out on organic search engine traffic. I’d recommend checking out episode 5, How to Supercharge Your Podcast and Increase Its Value With Writing. There’s a lot of good advice in there about why show notes are important, and how you can create them. Let’s talk audio quality for a minute. Some listeners have a higher tolerance for poor audio quality than others. If you are recording with an iPhone or a built-in laptop microphone, you may lose listeners because your audio quality isn’t great. Most of those listeners probably won’t let you know, either. They are just going to turn off your podcast and forget about you. There are too many other podcasts out there with great content and great sound quality. You don’t have to have a super-expensive mic, a professional recording studio, or an audio engineer to mix your show, but you need to have a decent mic and know how to record at proper gain levels and do the basics of post-production (editing, mixing, noise removal, etc). Satvik asks: My clients are pretty specific: CEOs of growing startups with complex accounting needs. How do I figure out the best way to reach them? Should I focus on podcasts, blog posts, videos or referrals? First, word of mouth referrals are the best way to get new clients. Having your client’s friends recommend you is really powerful. As far as content goes, start by identifying what your clients are interesting in learning about. What problems are they having? What are they struggling with? What do they want to learn about? Can you create content that gives them some new insight or shows them how you solved a problem? Start with writing. Write a blog post about how you solved a problem for one of your clients. Write as many of those blog posts as you can, because that will attract clients that are searching online for those answers. Turn those posts into podcasts and then video. Cool Stuff to Check Out: Recommended Gear: https://kit.com/thepodcastdude Podcast: https://thepodcastdude.simplecast.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/thepodcastdude Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/thepodcastdude Successful Podcasting: http://successfulpodcasting.com Simplecast Blog: http://blog.simplecast.com/
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