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A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Resources: Lavender Phoenix: website | instagram QTViet Cafe: website | instagram Mugworts Queer Cabin: website Underpainting Collective: instagram Aetelier Collective / Suncha: instagram | spotify | show on march 30 in Newark, CA Minjoona Music instagram | spotify Transcript: Cheryl Truong (she/they): Good evening and welcome to tonight's episode of apex express. I'm your host, Cheryl Truong and tonight show is in honor of Trans Day of Visibility, but we're not just here to talk about visibility in that surface level way get sometimes framed as a political strategy. We're here to hold the fullness of trans life, the rage, the fear, the grief, and the joy, the power and the brilliance. Across the nation, a storm of hostility is being unleashed against the LGBTQ plus community.  In 2024 alone, 617 anti-trans bills were introduced. Making it the fifth consecutive record breaking year for legislation targeting trans rights. This year, that number has already climbed to 796 bills. This is horrifying. Yes. But even in the face of all of this, Our trans and queer community have never stopped living have never stopped dreaming. Have never stopped building futures from the margins.   And so I hope tonight as much as it is important to stay rooted and grounded in our political reality that is having very real, very immediate consequences on our trans and queer and gender expansive community. We also want to center trans joy because trans joy is not a distraction.  It is a strategy, a survival skill, and a source of power. So we're gathering in that spirit of resistance, remembrance, and radical joy tonight. And I'm honored to be joined by some incredible guests whose lives and work, reflect that very spirit. First we have Jean and Hải from QTViệt Cafe a creative cultural hub, dedicated to queer trans (QT Viet) liberation through ancestral practices, the arts and intergenerational connection. And we're also joined by eri oura from Lavender Phoenix, also known as LavNix, an organization that builds trans non-binary and queer API power in the bay area. Thank you all so much for being here. To start us off can you all introduce yourselves so that our listeners can connect your voices to names?  Hải Võ: Yeah, thanks Cheryl. Chào mọi người My name is Hải. And I am a member of Asian Refugees United, QTViệt Cafe Collective. And, yeah, thanks so much for having me. Jean Phạm (they/them): Hey, I'm Jean. I use they/them pronouns and I also organize with Hải at QTViệt Cafe Collective. I'm also a part of a newly formed art collective called Under Painting Collective. We're taking over an art school. We teach oil painting and charcoal drawing. Thanks for inviting us to be here, Cheryl.  eri oura (they/them): Hey, thanks Cheryl for having us. I'm eri. I am part of LavNix I am also part of Mugworts, a queer, and trans BIPOC centered cabin out in Greenville. , and I'm excited to be here. Cheryl Truong (she/they): Before we begin, I want to offer a logistical note. For our listeners if you were interested in any of the organizations that were mentioned, and it will be mentioned throughout the show such as Mugwort and Lavender Phoenix, which eri mentioned. Or QTViệt Cafe mentioned by Hải and Jean, and of course the Underpainting collective you could find their socials in the show notes on our website, kpfa.org/programs/apex-express.  Okay. Transition. I want to start with a question that is intentionally spacious. What is on your heart right now as a trans person moving through the world. Hải, do you want to start us off?  Hải Võ: Hmm. Yeah chia buồn That's the phrase that comes up for me. I just share in sadness. Usually that's a phrase to describe when someone passes in the Việt community. The way that I hear about how folks in our community are experiencing job insecurity, housing insecurity, being arrested, detained, deported. My days and my hearts are just broken. My heart has gone in many cycles of heartbreak over my whole life, as a queer person, as a trans, femme person. It isn't to say that this is anything new or that I haven't been in practice to mend my heart. This is just a incredibly heightened time. It's starting to not just hurt my heart, but also I feel it viscerally. It's much more tangible. We're talking about our lives, each other's lives. And so yeah, my heart is breaking.  I feel the frustration and the anger and the more frequent, heightened fear. But to be honest with you, our ancestors have equipped us for this moment. And I think there are reasons why, this moment exists. This is the reason why we started QTViệt Cafe, why Asian Refugees United is here because we know that we're trying to restore our wholeness, not just as trans folks, as queer folks, but just as people from a history of violence, trauma, and displacement. This isn't the first time that all those things have come around. Our ancestors have faced these maybe in different contexts and maybe in our homelands more so. And while I have that frustration and that anger, the frequency is heightened, I feel steadfast and I feel more able to mend my heart and able to hold and mend other people's hearts in this moment because we've been at this for so long. QTViệt  Cafe, we're gonna be celebrating nine years this summer. So I just got chills because I, I think I, um, I have to like, hold myself in comfort for myself right now because, I mean, when I came out, to myself in my teen year or I knew I was queer and trans from a really young age. I could see who I was, but I didn't necessarily feel like it was who I truly was. And so I grew up in a world where I was living different realities or wanting a different reality from actually how I was. I'm getting chills because when I came out, I started coming out to friends and families in my late teens and early twenties, and then ultimately to my parents when I was 23. I didn't know I would be able to live this long. I didn't know I would be able to meet other queer and trans Viet people, other queer and trans folks of color or other queer and trans people in general. Couple that with like a food system that I've been in food for so long, , for almost 15 years. And so, trying to nourish. Queer justice is connected to all other forms of justice. I've been at land and food justice work for a long time. And so, what I was seeing with what was happening to me and our queer and trans kin, the injustices happening in our community, I was seeing also that with cultural injustice in Vietnam to the Vietnamese community here, and then ultimately to the food system here in the US. So it was all connected. I am both surprised and also really proud that I'm still here and the most comfortable and thriving I am in my skin. Healing as a trans and queer person, I can only go so much. I can only heal so much on my own. The healing and the fight for liberation and freedom as queer and trans people happens so much more exponentially when done together. And so, I'm just so proud of us for all the years of connecting with each other, getting to know each other, building friendship, relationships, and fighting for the future that we want. I'll be turning in Viet age, I'll be turning 40 next year. My doctor, when I was young and had type two diabetes said that I'll only live to be 30. And so I've surpassed that. I'm excited for what magic we as queer and trans people continue to make, and what's the fights that we will continue to have and ultimately the unprecedented and insurmountable victories and wins that we'll have as a queer and trans community. 'cause we've been doing that forever and in this moment I wanna organize, I wanna help mend and heal our hearts and our minds so that we can really be able to like galvanize, organize, and create the practices and policies and futures that we actually want in the world, which we've been doing forever. I also think that it's an important time right now to be really clear about what we need, to be really clear about what we want and gather in ways that we may not have gathered before. I see joy and health as part of struggle and freedom in liberation and organizing. And so, I'll check there. eri oura (they/them): That was so beautifully said Hải. Thank you for naming the resilience and the fight that queer and trans folks have had to exude to continue to exist. For me it has also been really difficult to see and witness the struggle that our folks are experiencing right now.  It's really something to kind of trust in the state to hold our identities in a way that I don't think the state ever really knew how to. I was reminded on a group coaching call with other trans folks, that trans folks have lived in the underground for most of time. And that reminder really just made me feel we don't need validation from these entities, you know? That's never what has fulfilled our existence. It's actually our joy. It's actually our healing, our ability to not get bulldozed by waves of hate and transphobia. Queerphobia. It's really important for us to remember that and remind young folks that truth even though there has been this chunk of time, maybe like the last decade or so, where our gender identities get acknowledged by the state, but that's not where our validation comes from. We really need to not depend on these institutions. We take care of us. What I have been witnessing more is mutual aid being used as a way for our people to keep going. Honestly, I have never in my life gotten so many mutual aid requests as I have in the last few months which speaks to the heightened security and safety issues that our folks are experiencing in the queer and trans community. But also it's a sign that people are leaning into being courageous and asking for help, which is not an easy thing to do. It's not easy to ask for the help that we need. I think it's really important for us to remember that we're not alone. There are more than a billion people in this world I think I was also feeling overwhelmed by how much support folks were asking of me and I've had to say some grounded nos. And that kind of broke my heart honestly, to have to say no to a really courageous ask for support. My friend and coworker reminded me that there are so many other people in this world and we need to be able to share the the work of supporting each other to exist. Jean Phạm (they/them): Mm-hmm. Wow, that's beautiful. I'm loathed to go last. the first thing I think about is recently, one of the youth that I had formally worked with reached out and we just had a check-in and it really reminded me of the show Heartstopper, you know, these gay British kids. One of the gay kids, he is like always going to his art teacher about his various issues like, Hmm, I'm gay. Like, what do I do? And the art teacher's just trying to have lunch. And I remember I used to be Charlie, the kid, but now I'm the art teacher trying to have lunch and trying to help this kid deal with crisis. I remember years ago, the first time Trump got elected, I remember the first thing that I was thinking about was ” oh, I, I guess I'll never be able to transition or live my life the way I want or need to.” then I just kind of grieved that and made peace with it. I do wish I could speak to that version of me because I think it's pretty similar to what Hải had shared. Personally, I do feel I am in probably the best form of myself that I've ever been. I'm the wisest I've ever been. I'm doing everything that I want to. I'm learning to heal my inner child. My taste in men has improved dramatically. I learned how to say no. There's a lot of things that have just shifted that I think are net positives, but it's in total, in contrast with the world in which we live ourselves. And I think similar to what folks have shared I think for me, I've just gone more hyperlocal. Right. Given that these institutions, our federal institutions, our state institutions have failed us. It's just truly ripping the mask off. These are things we've known before. The ways in which we are being oppressed, the ways in which people spout hate. The rhetoric being used. It's not new, it's not novel. These are things we've heard over and over again. Like, if I wanted to cosplay as a hater, an alt-right hate, like, it'd be so easy, you know everything they say. There's a sense that the oppression we face is so mundane and it's so ordinary. The student had asked me oh, Jean, I'm so alone right now. What do I do as a young queer person trying to navigate the Trump of it all, and I was like, oh girl, you need to make friends. Like you really need to make friends. 'cause it's really, yeah, like when our institutions fail us, our community really holds us out. It's why I organized with the QTViệts. It's why my art friends, we created Under Painting Collective. It's why we find these pockets of the world that we really want to build and that are nourishing to us, our energy giving, that we wanna invest our time and resources in. And we try to carve out a version of the world that we wanna live in. And I think that's how we ride it out, or that's how we survive. We have to look super local. Yeah, I think that's basically how I'm doing. So I'll, I'll just check there too.  Cheryl Truong (she/they): Thank you all for sharing what's in your heart.  Hải, thank you for bringing up chia buồn, sharing sadness, and for naming our legacies of ancestral resilience. eri, thank you for reminding us that the state and institutions have no say in the validation of our identities as trans and queer people. And for lifting up mutual aid as a beautiful alternative that supports, and I loved how you put this, those courageous asks for help that the state will never be able to provide. And of course for modeling those grounded no's..  And Jean, thank you for your offerings of alt-right cosplay. And for grounding us in that strength of community. And I just want to say. A big, thank you to the art teachers in the middle of having lunch everywhere. I don't know where we would be without you truly. ‘  We are going to take a quick music break, don't go anywhere we'll be right back with more conversation in honor of Trans Day of Visibility when we return. Next up, you're listening to a track called “Juniper” by Minjoona, a project led by Korean American musician, Jackson Wright. This track features Ari Statler on bass, josh Qiyan on drums, and Ryan Fu producing. Juniper is the lead single from Minjoona's newest release, the Juniper EP, a five track p roject rooted in indie rock, 60 throwback vibes, and lyric forward storytelling. You can follow Minjoona on Instagram at @minjoonamusic or find them on Spotify to keep up with upcoming releases. We'll drop the links in our show notes. Enjoy the track and we'll be right back.  And we're back!!. You're listening to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley. 88.1. KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. That was “Juniper” by Minjoona.  Huge thanks to Jackson Wright and the whole crew behind that track. Before the break we talked about, what's been sitting on our hearts as queer and trans people moving through the world right now, naming both the grief and also the resilience that we carry. I wanted to stay with that thread and widen the lens a bit because we know that even in the face of violence and erasure, trans resistance is alive and ongoing. So I want to ask, where are you seeing moments of resistance in the trans community?  Whether in movement spaces, small acts of care, or day to day survival.  eri oura (they/them): I am happy to share first. Where I'm seeing resistance, movement building work and also community building. My paid work with LavNix is definitely a space where we center trans justice and do the work of developing leaders with skills to be able to hold the line of our existence. Our existence is resistance. We don't just see our own individual liberation as separate from everyone else's. We are doing the work of advocacy around budget in San Francisco with our Care Not Cops campaign. We're doing the work of lifting up our folks in our stories not just in the current moment, but also by lifting up like our QTAPI histories. QTAPI meaning queer and trans API folks. With Mugwarts, we provide a more accessible, affordable space for queer and trans BIPOC folks to heal. For me that is also part of the resistance, the fight, getting to rest because as we were checking in earlier and talking about how stress really does shorten people's lifespans and quality of life. I think knowing that there's space, there's place, there's land for us to engage with to do that work of healing. The more disconnected we are from that reality that we are connected with the land, it's making it harder for us to be able to feel connected to ourselves, to each other. For me, when I go to the river for a swim or go to the ocean for a dip, that is part of my resistance too. My joy in being in that space is so important. Why would we fight if we had nothing to look forward to? Honestly, if it all just felt so mundane and also like we're always fighting, we would just burn out. When we're burnt out, it makes it hard for us to feel the light of our ancestors, feel the light of the universe that is actually our birthright to connect with. The reality is that this world is very abundant. Scarcity is a manufactured thing that, capitalism, the state is trying to push on us as a way to oppress us, to suppress us, to keep us down. When we tap into abundance, we tap into pleasure, we tap into joy. We tap into ease in this way that allows us to stay connected to each other, to ourselves, to other beings on this planet. Being rooted in abundance is a powerful act of resistance. Jean Phạm (they/them): Yeah. Well said. I try to practice abundance, but I always feel all I know is scarcity. Great reminder. For me, trans justice is so embedded with so many larger movements like you have shared. Trans justice is disability justice. Trans justice is fighting for Palestinian liberation. Trans justice is anti-imperialist because I think ultimately, self-determination in our bodies. To be the way that we are.  I often feel spiritually as trans people, we know who we are so there's a lot of abundance there. There's a lot of wealth there. I would actually argue spiritually cis people have more to gain from trans justice than we do. I always share how trans people in pre-colonial societies were spiritual leaders, shamans, healers in the community. It was mentioned before that a lot of trans people today exist in underground economies or are just not embedded in society. There's no place for trans people in our current world whereas there used to be. I do think that is one of the unstated qualities that we're trying to bring within trans justice. I also will say in any given committee where people are doing actions or organizing or doing mutual aid, I can assure you that there is a, they them, there is a doll, there's a trans gender expansive person, otherwise trans person in those committees, you know, People are moving.  In the topic of trans visibility day, we see the ramifications of that, right? Visibility doesn't always offer us more power or safety. Institutions are realizing this. You see nonprofits, community orgs, they have to scrub every fixture of language around diversity, equity, inclusion, so that they aren't being targeted by the federal government. Visibility isn't really what trans justice is about, right? It has never really protected us. We're fighting for basic things to survive, to work to make sure this stupid gender on our form is right. To walk to the store. In some sense, the way I've lived and expressed my transness, I always feel the un visible parts or the invisibility is where I will always feel more actualized. You know when people, cis people, strangers look at me and they're like, who the hell is she? What is she like? What is that? I'm like, uh, My favorite moments are when people. Like in my old job when I had first moved to the Bay, I got this big sense that I declared to know, oh, I'm trans. And I could see the cogs turn in their head as they're trying to figure out, oh, which way are they trans? And I love that. I love living in the ambiguity. To me, that's always been more emblematic what being trans is to me is kind of just playing with expectations. Making people a bit more uncomfortable and allowing more for more experiences to live. Hải Võ: What's coming to mind, in addition to what you've all shared is, what does it mean for me to be on Turtle Island and in the diaspora? Part of transness and queerness is also understanding who we are and where we come from. In the context of just the nature of why I'm here on Turtle Island in diaspora is because the US was there in Vietnam. I think that means trans justice is actually beyond borders and actually recognizing that the history of our queer and trans people, trans justice means that we're also acknowledging the struggles and liberations of our kin  in the homeland. When I think about trans justice, I can't help but think about the fights against imperialism, colonization, the ways in which essentially trans and queer people in Vietnam have been discriminated, have been bullied, have been essentially because of colonization, imperialism, been wiped out of history. And if it wasn't for a culture that is by word of mouth and people from indigeneity that is questioning who we are and also being like, well, if we are trans and queer then we must have queer and trans ancestors. And we do. And that's been a very healing journey for me. It's been both hard but also very healing to know that queer and trans folks our age, even younger are also experiencing similar things to what we're experiencing here as queer and trans folks in the diaspora. But it also means fighting for indigenous, local, queer and trans ancestral homeland experience also. I was just, we were just hearing about how USAID was paying for essentially medication for our people over there. But now with that gone, it's like, what are people to do? And so it's not even just, not just about trans lives. The defunding of that has also created stop in removal of Agent Orange. We have fields in Vietnam that have like, after that cut, are left to continue to have Agent Orange. Now, with the early monsoon seasons of the year, that water will permeate into millions of lives downstream. And Vietnam is a whole ecosystem of wetlands and water. And so for me, I just think about trans justice as as a Viet, as a Southeast Asian, as an Asian person, as a person who has lineage somewhere, ancestry, somewhere indigeneity somewhere, it means acknowledging the deep historical reparations that colonization, imperialism and modern day capitalism in parts. The last thing I'll share for this one is I think that trans and queer justice is also ecological justice. This is very connected to what you were sharing, Jean. Ecology is essentially the study of home. There's just been too many times in my life where home has been ripped from me. I've had to leave what I thought was home. I've had to feel like I, I needed to be a different thing outside of what my home actually is in my own body and my own mind. How can we create a piece of not just mind, but also piece of body, piece of place, piece of space, piece of an unlived ecology that transness and queerness is the norm. And, I love learning about how nature is so queer and so trans. I mean me saying that and naming that is a hard thing to say. The English terms that we use is a very colonial thing, but the ways in which other animals and plants are in relationship to each other, I'm like, oh, worms having multiple genders, I'm like that. I feel like that. And so like, the worms probably have their own language about what that is. I'm not gonna like, “worms, teach me about who you are” because I'm not trying to appropriate you and I'm just like, this is this cool that nature is already in a state of abundance in itself, like queer abundance in itself. Cheryl Truong (she/they): Ooh.  Thank you all for sharing those powerful reflections on resistance. It's such a reminder that trans resilience doesn't just show up in protests, policy fights, or in singular days like Trans Visibility Day. It lives on in our relationships. And our lineages in the everyday ways we refuse erasure.  As Hải reminded us. It stretches beyond borders and into our motherland, especially as diasporic trans or queer people of color. And it shows up when we play with people's expectations. Like Jean confusing their colleagues assumptions about their gender. It's also in the worms. In our ecologies. It shows up when we fight for Palestinian liberation. When we organize with value aligned groups, like Lavender Phoenix, like QTViệt Cafe it also shows up as Eddy beautifully names in our joy. I love the importance of uplifting that swimming in the ocean is part of resistance. Because rest is resistance. Pleasure is resistance. Our very existence is resistance. So, thanks for grounding us all in that  So we've just spent time talking about how resistance shows up in our trans and queer communities. And I now want to shift us into a conversation about what sustains us, what keeps us going, what brings us back to ourselves and to each other. But before we dive in, we're going to take a quick music break.  Up next. You're going to be hearing from Suncha, an Asian-American Bay area based band dabbling in punk rock, math rock, and groove-based jamming. The group features Ryan Foo on guitar and vocals. Jackson Wright on bass and vocals. And Abhay Malik on drums. You can catch Suncha live this Sunday at Simmer Huang in Newark, California. For more information, check them out on Instagram. @ ateliercollective That is spelled. A T E L I E R collective– link in our show notes. And keep an eye out Suncha's debut album is set to drop in the summer of 2025. Enjoy the music and we'll be right back. Welcome back!  You're listening to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3. KPFB in Berkeley, and 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. Big shout out to Suncha for that last track. So much love to this Bay Area Asian American band bringing punk, math, rock and groove into our ears and hearts. You can catch them live this Sunday at Simmer Huang in Newark. More information on Instagram at @ateliercollective, as always link in our show notes.  I'm your host, Cheryl Truong and tonight's show is in honor of Trans Day of Visibility. I'm here in conversation with Jean and Hải from QTViệt Cafe, which is a project of Asian Refugees United. And eri oura from Lavender Phoenix. Before the break we explored where trans resistance is showing up across our communities. Now I want to turn towards what sustains us, what keeps us rooted, nourished and connected as we continue dreaming and building together. So my next question: what kind of trans joy or wisdom has carried you through this past year? Jean Phạm (they/them): I wanna uplift what Hải I had shared at the very beginning. The Vietnamese concept of chia buồn. Sharing sadness. We can survive if we each just take a little piece. The community takes a small morsel of someone's burden and helps lift them up and share it. I really experienced that a couple weeks ago when my maternal grandmother passed away. And I think one of the biggest I feel tragedies is we're all just trying to survive. Purchasing power definitely creates a difference, but the reality is in our terms of just lived experience, we're just one or two paychecks from just full on destitution, you know? so we really rely on each other. When I heard that my grandma passed away, it was really hard for me because one is just going back to family is such a traumatic ordeal, and two, the flights were just logistically expensive. I just commiserated to one of my friends I had to do an overnight train down, which is maybe 10 hours. I mean, it's fine. I've done it many times before. But I think as an act of care and mutual aid, my friends organized behind my back and were able to give me enough so that I could get a flight and not really think about the logistics so much so that I could just focus on being present and also deal with the mental load of being around my family again. To me that was an expression of trans joy in terms of all these relationships I had built, really came through and I wasn't expecting it to, you know. One constant reflection I had was like, when people are grieving, am I just nice to them? Because I was like, I don't think so. Maybe, you know, it's hard to tell. But people really came through. And I think that really lifts me up and really I think about it so often. Being able to share in everyone's sadness. I'll also share within my close group of friends, I have this little scheme or theory called the Screaming Girl Theory. In a given week, only one of us can be the screaming crying girl and everyone has to support her. And then it rotates. In the scheme of things, it's like, oh God, we're all people of color who are all queer, trans or just have a touching point of just being oppressed in some way. If someone's like, oh no, I'm having such a hard time because I'm depressed, I have anxiety, I'm a queer person of color. You know, that type of rhetoric. It's hard in our space 'cause it's like me too. Everyone's going through it. So I think moments where we can share in that and rotate taking care of each other is really what has been keeping me going. And I also think it's nice to care for other people too. That's probably the final realization. People like helping, and giving people opportunities to help. I think it does induce a nice feeling and we may not always be well resourced or have the capacity to, but when we can, when we offer help to people, I think that's something people generally wanna do in service of the community. eri oura (they/them): I love this question because again, I feel like joy is so important right? In our fight for liberation, for Justice as trans folks, gender expansive folks. I mean, honestly, being with other queer and trans folks is such a joy. When we're marching in the streets together, when we're organizing doing the back end work of creating the space for each other to feel safe. And not just safe, but also seen and held. Not only is it joyful, but it's healing. When I think about trans justice, I think about healing justice as a intersection that we hold together. It's inseparable, honestly. I do think that there is a lot of grief, a lot of hurt, a lot of trauma that we have to endure in this world and sometimes we inflicted on each other. But when we can turn that around and really face each other in those hard moments. It makes such a difference in the quality of our relationships. The depth of how much we can access within ourselves. We as trans and queer folks, it doesn't matter what the state is trying to impose on us, trying to erase our existence, they have been doing that forever. They have been trying to eliminate us in this colonial context. It really is the joy that keeps us buoyant, that keeps us connected to the light of the universe that keeps us connected to each other. When other people who don't understand transness see us in our joy, they just see joy and that makes it attractive. That makes it something they wanna be a part of. The fact that we have learned to put words to who we are in the deeper ways that words have evolved into is us really just trying to fit into this context of colonialism, meaning making, all of these things that I think are powerful tools, powerful skills to have. At the root of everything is we know we are a network that supports each other to exist. And being able to put words to that is such a gift. Without the words we communicate with each other in ways we see each other in ways that I don't think people who are stuck in narrow binaries can actually see or feel or understand. For whatever reason that makes them angry. Their anger is just more fuel for us to lean into joy because it's not even about them. We can have conversations, we can try to justify our joy and our existence, but at the end of the day when the sun goes down, we are who we are, and in the light it might be easier to see how magical we are, but in the darkness, I think. We glow in a way that people who are limited in their thinking are not able to. They can't tap into that light. Hải Võ: I used to hide a lot. I used to hide who I was in order to think that I would feel safe. Hide my queerness. Hide my transness. Because there were assumed fears that my parents being conservative Catholic that I would be reprimanded and then, that happened. There was a period of that very tragic dark times. Looking back at that, I think I needed to experience that in order to fully understand how deeply organized systems can be traumatic and be deeply problematic. And also lessons in how do we actually better organize our systems to not perpetuate discrimination, violence and trauma. All that to say, I think that part of trans joy in the last year is instead of being less, getting smaller, being less than, hiding, actually, trans joy is just what you were saying, eri. Actually just being more me. Being more truthful. More honest. I've been on a healing journey with my dad the last year. We've been estranged for five years since my mom passed. I had gone to come to peace with, potentially not talking to my dad for a while. But I think that innately part of being Viet and wanting to reconnect with Vietnam is to try to connect with my dad as a portal or as a throughway to Vietnam. I took both the risk and the opportunity to reconnect with my dad with the hopes that we could heal our relationship. And just as much as I've gone through my own journey on transness and queerness, my dad has also too. There's been a lot of apologies, A lot of me unearthing and upending a lot of my own truths and just being really honest about who I am and being more comfortable and more grounded in what I want to do in my life. My dad has too. As hard as the tensions are, and even if in the moment, our elders, our people, our families might not be voting in the ways that we want them to vote or be against the policies and practices that counter who we are. I think I'm hopeful for just being more honest with myself and getting out of our comfort zones and unease in order to really surface what needs to be said. That's one. Two is, I just love meeting with our queer and trans elders. I think that's been part of our joy. Shout out to Sống Thật, the first queer Viet radio show in San Jose. They literally just were like, we're gonna take community college classes on radio and we want a show. We just wanna share that experience to dismantle a lot of the stereotypes. And so I think a lot of the, the trans joy that I'm experiencing is just we just gotta do it. We just gotta try it. I'm learning with our ancestors. Learning with our elders and just being like, we gotta try, we gotta do and yeah. I'll check there. Mm-hmm.  Cheryl Truong (she/they): And that's the end of our show. If you're. Curious about the incredible work being done at Lavender Phoenix, Asian Refugees United, QTViệt Cafe, Mugworts, and Under Painting Collective, check out the links in show notes and learn more about how these groups are building trans and queer aAPI power, culture and care in our communities. You can access the show notes at kpfa.org/programs/apex-express.  Before we close out, I want to take a moment to uplift a campaign that is very close to my heart. Pardon APSC 4. Some of you listening may already be familiar with this campaign, they've been on our show before. Pardon APSC4 is a demand to Governor Newsom to pardon the APSC 4 which are Borey “Peejay” Ai, Nghiep “Ke” Lam, Chanton Bun, and Maria Legarda. Our beloved family members, the APSC 4 are at risk of deportation. We are asking you our listeners to join us in telling the governor to pardon them now so they can remain home with their families and communities. The APSC 4 are childhood survivors of violence and trauma. They are impacted by bullying, poverty, war, and domestic violence. Like so many others, they were funneled into the criminal legal system as youth. While incarcerated, they became leaders. They completed self-help and educational programs. They mentored others and committed themselves to healing and transformation. Each one of them have earned release through California's parole process and were affirmed for release by both the board of parole hearings and Governor Newsom himself. But instead of being allowed to return home, ICE was contacted and now they face deportation simply because of where they were born. That is what's called double punishment. A racist and unjust system that targets immigrants and refugees after they've already served their time. The APSC 4 are not just individuals. They are community leaders. As part of the Asian Prisoners Support Committee, an organization, which centers formerly incarcerated leadership, Peejay, Ke, Bun, and Maria provide reentry support. They mentor at risk youth and they lead workshops on the school to prison, to deportation pipeline. They are change-makers. They are caregivers. They are parents. They are our community. And despite everything that they've given and everything that they continue to do, they live in an immigration limbo. Under the threat of deportation by a system designed to disappear them. So we are calling on Governor Newsom to stop ICE from deporting the APSC4.  We are calling on Governor Newsom to grant them pardons. To learn more and take action, please visit bit.ly/APSC4.  That is B I T dot L Y slash APSC. You can sign a petition, write a letter and help us keep our people home. Please join us in the fight to keep APSC4 home. Thank you. Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong  Cheryl Truong: Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening!  The post APEX Express – March 27, 2025 – Trans Day of Visibility appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight join Host Miko Lee as we focus on the APSC4. We will be doing a short series on the members of the Asian Prisoner Support Committee's campaign for justice. In this first episode we speak with all four leaders, advocates from APSC4 including: Peejay Ai, Maria Lagarda, Kee Lam, and Chanthon Bun. They are staff at Asian Prisoner Support Committee who work with formerly incarcerated folks and their families. They provide support like jobs, healthcare, education, community. And yet, despite their work and their personal transformations and community transformations, they remain in immigration limbo and are at risk of being detained by ICE and potentially deported. Tonight, we hear their personal stories. We learn about movement building and talk about how you can get involved. And just a note for listeners that we will be talking about experiences with war. trauma, sexual assault, and violence.   How to support the APSC4 APSC 4: https://action.18mr.org/pardonapsc3/ APSC Website: https://www.asianprisonersupport.com/ APSC Donation Page: https://donate.givedirect.org/?cid=13… APSC Get Involved Page: https://www.asianprisonersupport.com/apsc-4 Twitter:   / asianprisonersc   Facebook:   / asianprisonersupportcommittee   Instagram:   / asianprisonersc     Arriving: APSC4 Part 1 Transcript Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:00:34] Welcome to our multiple part series about the members of the Asian Prisoner Support Committee, APSC4, and their campaign for justice. First up is an interview with all four. In the next episodes, we'll be diving into their individual stories. Special thanks to the HHREC podcast for allowing us to re-air their shows, which will be linked in our show notes.   Miko Lee: [00:00:56] Tonight on Apex Express, we have members of the APSC4, Asian Prisoner Support Committee's formerly incarcerated leaders, advocates, and healers. We are talking with Peejay Ai, Maria Lagarda, Kee Lam, and Chanthon Bun. They are staff at Asian Prisoner Support Committee who work with formerly incarcerated folks and their families. They provide support like jobs, healthcare, education, community. And yet, despite their work and their personal transformations and community transformations, they remain in immigration limbo and are at risk of being detained by ICE and potentially deported. Tonight, we hear their personal stories. We learn about movement building and talk about how you can get involved. And just a note for listeners that we will be talking about experiences with war. trauma, sexual assault, and violence. Thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. Welcome APSC4 to Apex Express. I am so happy to have you here. I want to start with a question that I love to ask of everyone, which is from the amazing poet Chinaka Hodges. And the question is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Let's start with Peejay.   Peejay Ai: [00:02:12] So I am Peejay. I am Cambodian of origin. My mom and dad are Cambodian. We have part Chinese somewhere in our genes. When I think about legacy, I think about my culture, my upbringings, you know, my, my parents cares with them. I Also have experiences in incarceration, and obviously through my journey in life, I have this legacy as well, where I've learned some stuff and I have met people through the prison system. When I think about my people, I think about the people I've come across with who helped me grow in life, you know, and the foundation that my parents taught me when I was a kid. That's kind of my legacy. I think about the people I've come in contact with, my community, my parents, what they teach me about my ancestor. And now that I'm working heavily with the CERI community, Center for Empowering Refugees and Immigrants here in Oakland, you know, I'm co facilitate the Men's Elders group. So, with them, they teach me a lot about culture, a lot about my roots and where I came from. And so I'm relearning who I am as a person and redefining myself. And also reminded that, you know, beyond my experience, there's a foundation of Cambodian cultural, right. and heritage, you know, behind me. So that's kind of what I think about when I think about my people and I think about my legacy.   Miko Lee: [00:03:29] Thank you so much, Peejay. Bun, what about you? Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Chanthon Bun: [00:03:36] I'm Cambodian. My people are Khmer people. The legacy that I have is resilient. My family have lived through, through a lot of systems even my grandparents being Khmer from colonization to the genocide to, coming to America. My family have endured a lot. so the resilient in us still live and that's the legacy I carry.    Miko Lee: [00:03:58] Thank you so much. Bun, I'm going to ask you about resilience later, because that is a key thing I get from y'all. Maria, what about you? Tell me about your people and what legacy you carry with you.   Maria Legarde: [00:04:09] Who are my people? I'm a Filipina immigrant, so my people are the survivors. You know, those that dealt with a lot of that, that had a lot of challenges growing up, right? And didn't have a voice. So those are my people. My faith community are my people, my elders, my Lolas, and my mylas, my mentors, those that shaped me and who I'm becoming today. Those are my people. The legacy that I feel that what I'm leaving an imprint here on earth is being the voice for those that cannot express themselves. For those that do not have a voice right now and are scared. And I want to be that voice to let them know that they're not alone.   Miko Lee: [00:04:54] Ke Lam, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Ke Lam: [00:04:58] My people are my incarcerated. Those are incarcerated. Those that got deported, and those that are living in fear are my people. Because I understand the struggle, I understand the fear, I understand the trauma. The legacy I carry with me is all the advocates before me that have done this work that, you know, that put their life on the line. As well as my grandfather who came to this country, you know, struggling to raise a whole family, whole generation. I think the other part of my legacy is. breaking the, the, the cultural cycle. Like my grandfather never hugged my dad, but I hugged my dad, gave my dad that hug. And so, and, and that progression is going towards my, my siblings, as well as even to other men that was incarcerated. That never got a hug from their father.    Miko Lee: [00:05:50] Thank you all for sharing your stories of who you are and your sense of resilience and giving voice and incorporating your culture. I know that each of you have had incredibly deep and profound experiences and thank you so much to the HHREC podcast, which is allowing us to air interviews that you did already sharing your stories. I have heard your stories also and I'm just wondering what is that like for you to continue to tell your stories again and again? How do you sustain reliving that type of trauma by sharing your stories?   Chanthon Bun: [00:06:25] You know telling our stories is really traumatic. But we've learned how to heal from a lot of our traumas without healing from your trauma, it's hard to tell that story. And when you tell that story, it comes alive again. With that, I believe it's so important for our elders and our youth, especially like Peejay, myself and Maria. We are the 1.5 generation. I truly believe that we bridge these generation, you know, where we could relate to our younger folks. And then our elders, we still hold the tradition that they're used to. Telling our stories is bridging the experience, you know, bridging the past and the future with the present of our stories. For me, a lot of it is because when I grew up, I didn't have stories like this. I had to live it and made mistakes as I went. I didn't have somebody telling a story of how an immigrant could learn this culture. I did it all with mistakes that I've made and lessons that I've learned. And then passing it down. I mean, there's a lot of folks that are in my shoe. There's a lot of folks living the life that I live that still don't understand and still can't heal. And, you know, I'm just hoping that the shared experience could start a conversation of healing.   Peejay Ai: [00:07:44] Yeah, I think for me, sharing my story over and over again it is healing in some instances, and sometimes, you know, living, reliving trauma is very difficult. And I'm learning to like, do my work, you know, as an advocacy with APSE, and through my own experience through restorative justice practices that, sharing my story, it could be empowering for other people to share, right. I think I grew up. In this API community or silence, you know, and it's a shame to talk about, your experience, right, airing out your laundry, pretty much, you know, your personal experience could be very shameful but what that does, and I'm learning, like, you know, like, when you have trauma. and you don't talk about it, you know, you become silent. It's affects you, you know what I mean? It affects your life. It's affects your health. It affects your community and your family. So now as I'm reframing the way I look at my story is that I'm using as a tool and to share, so that other people could, could learn and know, but also feel empowered to share their story. You know, I think storytelling could be a very powerful thing for a community, right? Not just Bun have said, like provide healing, right. But. Also, I think like it provide teaching, you know, like when I hear my elder share their story, it teaches me  about my history, my culture, what they've been through, but also it also like reaffirmed that, I'm on the right track, you know, that healing could happen by watching, you know, my elder shed tears from their story by hearing their emotion and feeling their emotion and seeing it with my own eyes, you know? I think like storytelling is a very powerful tool for us and I think more people should tell their story because they have something to offer, you know, and I think we should always tell our stories. So, what's once was like a very difficult thing to do now become something that I know is very purposeful and empowering.   Miko Lee: [00:09:19] Thanks Peejay Maria. What about for you? How is it for you telling your story again and again?    Maria Legarde: [00:09:24] Sharing my story like I always get emotional. So, it's very hard for me, because I relive it, but I use it as a tool now, as it's a powerful tool, you know, going through it, sharing it, like it just happened yesterday. Because when I share my story, especially with the young women, it makes it real for them. To know that I've been there, like, I've been there too, I know it, I know what she's feeling. And, sharing it, what did I do, how did I do it. Painting the picture for them, not to traumatize them, but to show them how I got from not being able to speak about it. To talking about it to healing and then taking control over my life, and then becoming empowered by the struggles that I gone through all those years. It just didn't take me one year, took me 15, 20 years, even today, you know, so to share that I know that when I plant that seed, it's not because to traumatize them or to make them relive it. There's that collective power in it, the collective healing in it, that that's what got me to share my story in the first place. When I heard all the other women share it, I'm not alone. For the first time in my life when I heard it, I didn't feel alone. Because I knew somebody believed me. When the people that were supposed to believe me didn't believe me, they believed me. You know, so I, that's the gift that telling that story gives another, individual. That life, it's, pass it forward, you know, that's why I was so happy with the Me Too movement because it's a collective power within us. So like with Bun and with Peejay, the intergenerational healing from our, you know, the trauma within our family. Because of that, I know I can share it with my family and we start talking about it because they've seen me do it. Like how is that that young girl was able to talk to you like that? I was like, because she knew that I believed her. The moment she told me, she knew I believed her. it opens the door for healing in my family, in my community. So that's why I, today, I use that as a tool to bring people together, collective healing.    Miko Lee: [00:11:42] Storytelling as collective healing and being able to, be heard and open the door for other people to share their stories as well. Thank you so much for sharing about that. Kee Lam, I'm wondering if you could talk about the resilience it takes to tell your story again and again, what is that like for you   Ke Lam: [00:12:02] Each time I tell my story is almost like an awakening. It, is reliving a lot of that trauma, but it's also like reminding me of what I've been through and, and I'm still here. it's also for me is, Self love, being able to share it because I'm hoping that I can be an encourager to those who don't know how to share a story or who are afraid to share a story. And so when I, the reason I put myself out there all the time is like, who better to, Encourage somebody and somebody that's been through it all as well. when I help, you know, restore your justice circles, people told me the way through is through the fire. and it's not easy to share a story sometimes because it's so traumatic. But one thing that encouraged me all the time is when I see other people. And I see them when they share the story that there's like a burden that was taken off shoulders. I see the difference when somebody able to feel like they could release some of that harm that was put on them and find healing and then find, strength in a community that support them through their struggle. And so that's why I keep sharing my story because I believe that. it takes all of us to bring voice to the hurt and pain that we, we had throughout so much generations.    Miko Lee: [00:13:14] Thank you for sharing angela Davis talks about how prisons are meant to break human beings. I'm wondering how each of you. what tool you drawed on to stay strong while you are incarcerated and how different that is, like, what mental health support do you do now? Do you have a daily practice to stay resilient now? And did you have something different when you were locked up?   Chanthon Bun: [00:13:38] Yeah, that is so true. Prison is meant to break you. And there's many times while I was incarcerated for my 23 years that, I was fighting that, that don't break me. You know, I still had the fight in me. You're not going to break me. even during my long years in solitary, I just, there was something in me, like I say, there's some resilience in me that, innately told me, like, do not let them break you, you know, mentally, physically. but yeah, during my, the hardest time where I felt like, you know what, this, this is getting too hard for me, being isolated, not having human contact. And, you know, the only thing on my skin is concrete and, and metal. I often look back to. My grandparents, I often look back to their teachings, their lessons that they've shown me through the years when I was young. and sometime, I use my trauma, you know, I, grew up in the refugee camp. It was hard. I was starving there. and it's weird how like you use a bigger trauma. To cope with this trauma, you know, it's like, man, I, when I, when I was a kid, I had nothing to eat. So I lick salt, you know, . They gave me three meals a day. I think I'm doing better than I used to be. So it's like, it's it was kind of crazy way to, think about it. And, and I think because I had so much trauma as a child. It really helped me to be resilient when I was incarcerated. And like, it really helped me to empower myself. And then, and then it really helped me to think about what is resilient? at first I didn't even know what it meant. People tell me, I was like, yeah, whatever. It was just, Something I do, like when folks like, damn, you're so resilient, like, I've been like this all my life. I don't know. I don't know what the gauge of resilience you're giving me. I've always been a person like, I'll figure this out, you know, as long as I survive, I'll figure it out. So, if you let them, it will break you. You look deep inside you, and you look at your life, and just like me, a crazy way was, I've been through worse and I could do this too.    Miko Lee: [00:15:32] Before you get to you stay resilient now, Maria, I see you smiling a lot. I wonder if you want to respond to that. About prison breaking, meant to break human beings.   Maria Legarde: [00:15:43] I, I, because I agree with what Bun was saying, you know, it's like trauma on top of trauma on top of trauma. Which one's worse? There's really, like, is, this trauma is really worse than this trauma? Because I both came out of it, you know, so give me more. Is there anything more that you can give me, right? So it becomes a defensive mechanism for us. And Bun said, I didn't know what resilient means. too, when I was in prison, what does resilient mean? I said, I know English is my second language, but, , you know, I don't know what that meant for a human being to be resilient and what it embodies. So that's why I agreed. And I smile because, yep, we didn't know we were resilient because we've been fighting to survive. We've been fighting to just to live another day.   Miko Lee: [00:16:28] Peejay, what about you? How did you stay strong when you were locked up?    Peejay Ai: [00:16:32] There's many factors, right. But I think like one factor I share with Bun, like I grew up on the street. It was hard, you know, I grew up poor. I grew up on welfare. I grew up, you know, as a refugees, you know, coming to America, doesn't speak the language, was bullied, you know, was victim of school shooting to the point. Right. And like, there's. Certain things in my life that really, like, shaped me and, like, pushed me really hard. And so I knew I was different. I knew I was, like, you know, like, the deck is stacked against me. And so I think, like, experiencing it as a young person, I become numb to it. And so when I hit prison, and I went, you know, I went to Juvenile Hall, right? I went to Juvenile Hall. I went to the CYA. I went to prison. So as young person going through the prison system, I started to the lower level first and I can build resilience, you know, like teaching myself how to read, like learning, to accept hardship, right. Not being able to be isolated, not to be like in a cell locked up for many, you know, for many days, sometime many years or two, right. I think the one thing that really shaped my life the most is when I was in Solano State Prison. And I was just like, this was like new. I turned 18, they sent me from CYA. To Solano, and one night my mom came to visit me and, she was just so dumbfounded by like, what she hear about prison. And then she asked me, how am I doing with everything? And then I explained to her, like what the environment is like, and I didn't candy coat it for her, but I just explained it to her and she couldn't understand why people would continue to harm each other in prison. We're all in the same boat, you know, like we're all in the same boat, we're locked up away from our family, like, why are we not together helping each other out? Right? And then there's one thing she said was I stuck with me today. She said life is hard, you know what I mean? Like, and it could be harder, you know what you make of it, right? Like, you've got the choice to make it easier if you want to, like, Your circumstance were always going to be the same, right? But you have a choice to make it worse. And I'm sitting there like, man, that's just makes so much sense to me. You know, like, why are we making much harder on ourself? Right. so then I started looking at life much differently. I think her statement for me was at the moment I had, it's like, you know, things are hard, right, but I can always make it harder for myself and things could always be harder too, right? So why not enjoy You know, things that is around me and try to make a difference in my own self. Right.    So from that concept, I started developing resiliency. You know, I started, I looked at it, I started reframing life differently. Right. I started thinking about like, well, I don't have nothing to eat, you know, like doing lockdowns, I think about, yeah, well, people starving all over the world too, you know, like, you know, So it just kind of gave me strength, you know, as I learned to reframe my environment over and over again. And then I started to develop, like, start to like find opportunity to create better opportunity for myself. I went and got a job, you know, I worked in a kitchen and I fed myself and I, went to school and I got a, education and I started getting in the program. And so, you know, I started really thinking about like, How do I make my life better? You know, I call it my life, despite what I, you know, very little I have, I make the best of it. Right. So I think like that kind of echo out in my whole life until I got to the ICE detention center, you know, I'm reminded like, Oh, it's pretty bad down here. at that point, I'm like, I'm used to this already, you know, I'm used to reframing things to become positive, right? No matter how negative it is, you know, I try to find the best of it. Right. Conditioning through like hardship, hard time when I was a kid, all the way to my adulthood, even now, you know, like things get hard, with this new immigration policy and stuff, there's a lot of fear. I mean, I'm constantly reminded that I'm not alone, you know, I've built community throughout my life, I'm creating opportunity, for healing. And so I should focus on what I have that is positive versus what I don't have that is negative, you know, let's cherish the moment, you know, cherish my friendship, you know, cherish my opportunity, right. And my freedom and soul. So that grounds me, that reminded me that, can get better and it will get better. I just got to keep that faith alive and just keep hope alive and just keep moving, you know. When I go through prison and I survive all the hardship, it's grounded myself on knowing that, you know, like, people in the world have it so much worse, you know, and sometimes we have a choice to make things better for ourselves, but we have to choose to make it better, right? You can't focus on the bad things. Problem solving, you know, don't focus on a problem, like, let's focus on a solution. What can you do different right now to make it better?    Miko Lee: [00:20:11] Thanks Peejay key. I'm wondering how you were able to stay strong when you were incarcerated.   Ke Lam: [00:20:17] Wow. , at first when I first started, on my. Committed offense. I went through the whole system. I went to all one time. I went to juvenile hall, youth authority, county jail, prison and immigration all on one case. It took a while. living straight strictly on survival mode. It's almost no different than when I was growing up. My family moved around constantly and it was just either you survive or you become a victim. And I started off my early life being a victim and then I learned, how to normalize violence, growing up in a predominantly African American community. And that actually, sadly prepared me for my committed offense, be doing time inside. It wasn't easy. one thing I learned was not to be, you know, to be a tough guy. just go there, mind your business, do your time, be very observant. That's one thing that did help me a lot in life is being observant of what's going on around me, being conscious of what's going on around me. And the other thing is. Try not to take too much stuff personal, but it wasn't until I started going through self help classes that I became more in tune with learning about empathy, compassion, forgiveness, not just forgiving others and receiving forgiveness from others, but also learning how to forgive myself for a lot of the stuff that I allow myself to go through and the things that I've done to others. I think the other part of me was becoming really spiritually grounded was another big part of me was, I started out practicing Buddhism. My first, you know, my first stay for, like, 10 years of incarceration. then I converted to Christianity. no denomination because I don't believe in being a religious person. I believe in being spiritual. So a lot of people are like, what's your religion? I say, I don't have one, but I do believe in a higher power. I believe that, you know, we are spiritual being experiencing a human experience. so it's a mixture of what I learned in Buddhism and Christianity is learn to have compassion for everything around me, including myself, and part of that compassion the biggest part that actually helped me to prison was. one thing that I never got from my father and he never got from his father was a hug. So I start hugging guys, giving people hugs, guys, on a yard, you know, so nationality did not matter to me. you know, I didn't grow up. biased against a lot of different people. I learned to embrace a lot of different cultures. and then one thing by going through the self help classes, learning to connect with people on a human level, besides what t they believe in or what they look like. And so once I was able to do that, I started experiencing a lot of healing for myself and for them.    Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:22:50] You are listening to 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno, 97.5 K248BR in Santa Cruz, 94.3 K232FZ in Monterey, and online worldwide at kpfa.org.   Miko Lee: [00:23:10] I'm wondering what each of you do, what is your personal, like mental health support that you do now to be able to stay, stay resilient, stay in there. Maybe you all have touched or feel like you've answered this already, or is there anything that you're doing differently now in your daily practice?   Maria Legarde: [00:23:26] Do want to share something real quick, Miko, going back the quote, right? That prison is meant to break us. I was already broken when I went to prison. There's nothing more that they can break me. That's why I said it, like, give it to me more. What else can you give me? Because I'm already broken. You took everything from me. You know, everything was taken from me. What more can you do to break me? But then, you know, with my journey, faith as being my foundation, right, I believe that once, God gives you that second chance, right, for me. What do I want to make? With this chance, who do I want to be? So like a phoenix, you know, rise from the ashes, right? And so I utilized that and it didn't take just one year, right? Took me in that journey. That throughout that 14 years to be who I am today. So I took that broken pieces of me and put it in a puzzle and made it into this beautiful product today, right? So my mental health, my wellbeing, emotionally, mentally, I always go back to my faith. Because it's what saved me from when I got to prison. So when everything else is in chaos, I go back into that place. Go to my place within me that I can just be at peace. And meditate, listen to my music, be one in nature, so that's my go to. And it helps when I know I have people, like my beautiful family here. it helps when I know that I don't have to tell them. They can hear it from my voice and say, it's gonna be okay, Maria. So that's the kind of care. Without even having to say it, they just know. And that's more effective than anything else.    Miko Lee: [00:25:16] Thanks, Maria. Peejay, you were going to add?    Peejay Ai: [00:25:19] Yeah, so one of the things that I adopted for myself when I was in prison is that I was heavily involved with the Native American spiritual circle, you know, because of my kind of Cambodian Background before Buddhism came through, we were indigenous, right? And so through my indigenous side of sharing with the Native American cultural there, they found a lot of similarity to us people, right? And so I was fortunate to be invited to join the spiritual circle, did ceremony with them. And so a lot of the spiritual practices that I have done with them, like, for example, like this sweat lodge ceremony, which are often used for healing or prayers. stay connected with the earth, stay connected with your creators, stay connected with the higher power and also like have an opportunity to pray for your family and do some healing and cleansing for yourself. So I still practice that today and sometime when I feel out of balance, when I feel like, you know, a lot's going on and things are heavy and just stuff out of control and I need to find that balance again. You know, I go to ceremony, I go to ceremony here, here when I'm in the lodge. you know, it's pitch black, the sweat leader brings in the stone that just represent grandfather, and your elders and when he poured a water on top of the stone and it's pitch black, the steam comes out, you know, reminding me of like grandfather's breath, right. The creator's breath. And, you know, like that. And like being a sauna, people think about it being a sauna, like it washes away a lot of like toxins out of my body. It just, it washes away a lot of the hardship I've experienced as I leave it into the fire, you know, leave it into the steam and allow myself some time to like disconnect from the world around me and just reconnect with myself, you know, what am I experiencing at that moment, my breath, my pores opening, my heartbeat, you know, and, sometime, you know, people who are in the sweat lodge sing traditional songs and the sound of the drum. , And it wakes up my spirit, and it reminds me of who I am, where I came from, where I'm going. Yeah, and when I come out of the sweat lodge, I always feel like renewed, I feel energetic. I feel like I've been reborn again, right? And that helped me stay grounded on a very physical, spiritual, and emotional level. I think the other piece is that as I'm going through life, I'm celebrating it by, like, with family members, with a long walk with my family. Well, my, my dog, also help, just kind of like putting things in perspective, right. I found moments to do like me time, sometime yoga, even, you know, I, you know, the other day I did silver sneaker, because some of my elders like to do silver sneaker. . And that was like, very, powerful moment, right. And I feel like I guess it's like what I'm learning is that, Those moments help me connect with myself. And sometimes that's the thing that I need to do most when things are hard. sometimes working and responding to crisis disconnect me from myself and then when I start to refocus on myself, I realize where I need to be. then I feel empowered take the next step. That's what keeps me going. Be aware of connecting with myself more often, right? You know, I because sometimes it's easy to forget that I matters and forget myself.    Miko Lee: [00:27:59] Thank you for sharing. It's really easy to get disconnect, disconnected in our world right now. So many things are hitting at us constantly. Ke. What about you? What are ways that you stay resilient?   Ke Lam: [00:28:10] I think for one is definitely take a lot of deep breath is grounding myself is definitely one thing. It's so easy to get caught up in all the chaos around us, you know, hearing all the raids and pick up and who works, who works with ice. It is, it's really, it's depressing and it causes a lot of anxiety. One of the things I do besides breathing is I have wind therapy, wind therapy. I just learned what wind therapy is actually just riding my motorcycle, just going out there and just, you know, pick a location, just go, right? no plan. Just, just go. And most of the time I just go by myself. so I ride my ride. I zone out, play my music and I go, other things. I really, I actually been doing a lot lately is sitting with my dog and Just sitting there in peace and just quiet, just hanging out with my dog. Cause I lost my other one in October. And so the one I have now, I just meet her, just chill at the, on the sofa. I mean, on the ground, sofa on the floor, and sometimes we just go for long walks and just, don't have to talk. you know, just being present and grounded with earth and with the environment around me. and then other thing is, you Just stay connected with family and community. you know, being able to slowly share like what's going on while I'm feeling inside and outside. It's been helpful.   Miko Lee: [00:29:22] Thank you. I think we all need as many resources as we can to find ways to stay connected to ourselves and our community right now. , I'm wondering both. Peejay and Ke, , touched on the fact that you have been involved in the like bad education to incarceration as a youth into adult incarceration and now potential deportation. Can you all give a breakdown about what crimmigration is and why it is important for people to know about it?   Chanthon Bun: [00:29:50] Crimmigration is, my simplest definition of crimmigration is double punishment. crimmigration is for folks that come here legally with papers, but then because of the IIRA IRA law of 1996 that states that any crime of moral sopropo you could be deported after you serve your time so you have to serve your whole sentence pay back to society what they say you got to pay back to society serve your sentence and after that deal with deportation consequences and that's another question that we're going through today Right with this new administration is who deserve to stay in who doesn't and right now it's so Convoluted where where you know, every day we're getting new explanation who stays who goes who stays who goes and everybody talk about the law, it's the law this, it's the law that, the law says this, and they interpret the way they want to interpret it. But nobody that's in power is talking about the family, nobody's talking about the person, nobody's looking into the person like, you know, a country of second chances, nobody talks about that, like yeah, there are criminals. send them out But we have folks that have served long term, like all four of us and we healed ourselves. we went to a parole board, the state of California, the governor approved that. We are no longer a threat to our community, our society, and also an asset to our community and society, right? But after that, immigration comes in like, we don't even care. We just know you were arrested for this and this. And it's time for you to go. And for a lot of our Southeast Asian families, that's a hard thing to wait for your family member for 20, 30 years, and then get deported for life. And I only say that is because We suffer a lot of displacement. We suffer a lot of family separation. a lot of us are the ones that were saved during the genocide, during the war, the ones that survived. and then, this country doesn't look at our history. Right. and our history is sold like you are blessed to have a second chance to come to this country and make something of yourself. Right. And that's a totally blank statement. But then reality was, we came here with nothing. We came here with a lot of trauma, and we were just placed here with no explanation, no nothing. struggling to survive, struggling to understand this country. a lot of us like myself, fall into the criminal system. And we had, paid for what we've done. we've served our time and now to turn around our parents that are elderly now saying goodbye to them again. And, oh, that's a misstatement saying goodbye. They don't even let us say goodbye. You know, it's not like, oh yeah, say goodbye to, no, you got to go. And the way it's done is so cruelly done that, nobody ever think of the human. Nobody ever thinks of the heartbreaks, nothing. And right now, all I hear is the law says so. So we are a country of law, right? But we are human too.   Miko Lee: [00:32:56] Thanks for that rundown on criminalization. Peejay, do you want to add.   Peejay Ai: [00:32:59] Yeah, I think about, like, when I hear crimmigration, I think of, like, my own experience, you know, like, going through the pipeline list. I'm learning, like, there's a pipeline. You know, between the criminal justice system to the immigration system in the criminal justice system, a legal system, you know, like for me, when I came to United States, we settled in a very poverish, violent, crazy community. Right. there was not a lot of resources, you know, and then there's like a lot of gangs, a lot of like bias, racism was happening at the time. This is the time, like the war on drugs, tough on crime policy, it was out, and the prison boom. Right. Right. And so for me, I think like the lack of education, the lack of support was already like a prelude to my incarceration. Like there was a pipeline or established that one, one of these days, I'm going to be in prison because of all those X, Y, Z reason. And I'm not the only one. I think like that's pipeline created, you know, hardship for a lot of people, and then, for many Southeast Asian community end up in prison because of like, Dealing with trauma, you know, like we didn't have the resources to deal with a trauma, you know, it comes out in crimes comes out in gangs, it comes out and, you know, like adapting to environment by, being part of all this negative stuff. Right. And, you know, in a prison system. And, you know, unfortunately, a lot of us in being raised in prison, you know, learning about the prison system, through our lived experience, I have to suffer through it. Right.    And I think like what Bun said, you know, like, for Southeast Asian community. You know, being in prison system is just the first step, like surviving your environment, your resettlement is one thing, right? And then end up in a prison system is another step, right? And then the other step is that you end up in an ICE dentention center, simply not because of like what you did, it is who you are, like you were born with, you were born Asian or you were born an Islander, you were born, you know, API, right? And you have the immigration hole on you. And so they try to punish you again because of that very reason, you know, like if I was an American citizen. And I served my time, changed my life. I will be home. Right. I can give back to my community. I reconnect with my family. But for, you know, for API community, that's not always the case. You know, like where are you pre preset that, you know, like after prison, you're going to go into the immigration system and that's where you're going to take your next step, your journey. Right. And then after you, if you were to survive the immigration system, we will deport you, you know, and we'll separate you from your family again. And often like stuff that makes sense, like Cambodian, for example, and this is true for Laos, Vietnamese, Hmong, and a lot of other Southeast Asian communities, right? Like we were refugees, you know, we came to this country, you know, as kids. So we're not even born in the country that we left, you know, like I, I was never born in Cambodia. My mom left Cambodia during a genocide and I was born in Thai. So then I was in, they were trying to deport me to Cambodia to a country I'd never been to. I wasn't even born there, you know, so it didn't make no sense, right? But I feel like this, when I think about like crimmigration it's a pipeline, you know, it's a pipeline that it's very biased, it treats us very differently. if you're API, then you're out of luck, if you're API, you will be out of luck, you know, like you'd be treated differently. Right. and I, and I don't think that's a right system because it's the exact opposite of what the American society is supposed to stand for. Right. You know, especially like California, and you're like, we're a very liberal community, right? Like, we're a state that just, support, ideally, immigrants and all ethnic background. But then we treat people so differently, And not because of what I did, just simply because who I am.   Miko Lee: [00:35:54] Ke can you talk about the APSC4? What your campaign is about.   Ke Lam: [00:35:58] APSC4 is a campaign to save half of the staff from deportation back to a country that they have no ties to, , for me is Vietnam for Peejay and Bun it's Cambodia and Maria to the Philippines. It's basically trying to say, you know, we're not the same, like people that served time and got released are considered, I consider is redeemed, we changed our lives, we made restoration for the harms that we've done, and we're giving back to the community, and we're showing that people with a second chance can make society greater. And by deporting APSC4, deporting people like us, you're taking valuable resources from the community. People that understand the struggle and, the hardship that's going on in our community. So we're bringing voice to the voiceless. We're bringing, light to those that are still in the dark. And the other thing, the biggest part of APSC4 is we're hopeful for a lot of folks that are, not just impacted people, but for families. If APSC4 is able to get a part in, we're showing the community that when we fight, we win. That together, we can not just save APSC4, but we can actually save our community. I think that's one of the biggest mission of why we urge Gavin Newsom to pardon APSC4 is that way that we can show that not only are people that committed crime, not their crime, because so easy to label somebody that committed crime. You know, as that thing, right? , but we're not, I think that's the biggest part for me for APSC4 and I'd like to hear what Maria had to say on   Maria Legarde: [00:37:24] So much going through my head. APSC4 you know, we make up half of the staff for APSC, right? We represent the community that APSC serves. We're directly impacted. We've been through immigration. We, you know, with our family reunification. APSC4 is the bridge between the people that are inside fighting for their freedom, what freedom looks like out here, how, when they're out here, how they can bridge that gap in their community, how they can bridge that gap with their family, how can they start over by, you know, having a solid reintegration into a community that's gonna be supportive of their success. Because they were given second chances, who they were when they were 20 years ago are different people today. And I think, you know, with Nia, with Danny, right, they received pardons from Governor Newsom, you know, and it was during that time, too, when all the immigrants were at risk. And so for us, APSC4, It would really be, a loss in the community because we bridged that gap, Miko. Like, when I first came home, Ke was my bridge. I was in LA, right? People didn't know it, what to do for folks. immigrants coming home on parole. But we bridged it. Now LA knows what to do. LA knows where to start because Ke bridged that gap between local DMV, and head, Sacramento DMV. You know, that's what community work and that's what APSC4 is. We were the bridge, literally the bridge from our folks inside, to our community out here, to our elected officials that you invested in programs to rehabilitate us, to spend money on those rehabilitation, those fundings, and now that we're here, you're allowing you know, allowing an administration, like for your investment to just, what, go down the drain, because really that's what it is. Only because we weren't born here, only because of what we were dealt with at the time when we were facing challenges we didn't know how to, but now we have all the tools and we've proven that we've held our community, because our community has spoken for us. You know, ask Governor Newsom to please pardon the community members that are coming home that are all at risk of deportation and it's not just APSC4. very much. But we are being the voice for those that don't know how to advocate for themselves. We're showing them, look, we're putting ourselves out here. Because we know the value that we hold today. And our community believes in us. And with their support, hopefully, Newsome hears that, you know, changes his mind, I don't know. Do within his executive authority to save those people that are working in his vulnerable communities, in his marginalized communities, that are thriving, helping those communities thrive. And we are part of that. And we're hoping that he does it in a manner where, because it's imminent, we don't know when we get to talk to our community members again, to you, to have this discussion again, and so that's what APSC4 campaign is about.   Miko Lee: [00:40:50] And folks can find out more about the APSC campaign on their website, Asian Prisoner Support Committee, and we'll also post it on the Apex Express website. And folks can meet all of these amazing guests in person at an event that's happening February 28th from 6 to 8PM at Edge on the Square in San Francisco, Chinatown, where we will be hosting the reading from the book arriving. Can one of you talk about and and the other exciting thing about that is at that event, there's actually a zine. That's based on Maria's life story called when we were girls, that they'll be able to meet Maria and actually walk away with the zine. That's for people to take people can make a donation to actually receive the book. Can one of you talk about the book and what that experience was like working on the book and about what this event is coming up at the end of February.    Chanthon Bun: [00:41:40] Arriving is our second anthology. the first anthology was called The Others. So, Arriving is a collaboration of incarcerated writers. I'm an artist in that book also. it was, it's just stories. of folks that are incarcerated, API folks that are incarcerated, expressing, poems, expressing their trauma, expressing their live experience, expressing what it felt like to be API at a certain moment. in time with, immigration, with, coming to, uh, this country, acculturation, you know, we have, many different writers that, that collaborated with us. when I read certain, certain, writers, And they're telling my story. They're telling all our stories. So, if you guys can, check out, check out the second anthology, Arrival.   Miko Lee: [00:42:30] So we are recording this on the last day of January, 2025. And already in just a couple of weeks, our political system is in tumult based on Trump 2.0 policy. Can you talk a little bit about how, and I know the policy is changing daily. I mean, every day it's this onslaught, but from what you know right now, how has this impacted your community?   Chanthon Bun: [00:42:54] The community is in fear. All day today I was driving around going to meetings, but getting phone calls right in the middle. What's happening? What's going on? I heard and there's a lot of rumors. There's a lot of fear out there and folks are catching up to rumors and, you know, our folks like, hey, they're deporting us. Should I run? Should I stay? Should I check in? Should I check in with my family? Should I move out for a while? And it's just a lot of fear. The sad thing is they're calling me and they're probably calling everybody from APSC. because we have a wide connection with our former incarcerated folks and folks that are under, final removal order. The hard thing is, Like what you said, I tell him the same thing. Like I know it's fear. We have a lot of fear in our community. I know we're all worried. for the kids, for the family. And I can't give you no answers because it's changing every day. I wake up, I look at the news is something else new. There's something there. There's something there. And every day since the inauguration, it's just. hits our community and living with fear is such a mental breakdown. I had one guy, call me a friend of mine. He says, I do a door dash and I see them everywhere. What do I do? Like, I see them everywhere I'm living at. I see them in the corners. I see them eating in the restaurant. And, you know, I have to go pick up food there to drop off. and you know, the only thing I could really say, and it's not even something that, could calm them. It was like, be careful, you know, be aware. I mean, it's hard. I know it's hard, a heart advice but I myself is living in that same fear. being aware, but still trying to uplift our community in times like this. I mean, this is not going to be the first or last time that our community are in fear. It's happened before and we'll get through it. You know, with our community strength, we'll get through it. And the hard thing is, some of us won't get through it. Some of us will be deported. But somehow, as a community, we have to stand strong together. We have to just brace this. And, hopefully, it'll end soon.    Ke Lam: [00:44:57] Yeah, my biggest concern with what's going on right now is when community, fight each other like good immigrant versus bad immigrants. you know, how to stay away from that narrative, right? how not to pit each other against each other. So I think that's one of the things we seen on the first administration. and now with the second administration, especially when he's talking about going a little harder on it. I worry that, you know, family will. Start separating within each other. And, you know, with the, political views, certain family members who support Trump, who doesn't support Trump other part of the population I'm afraid of is those that are remaining silence. Those are that are hiding in the shadows. Right. Because they think by being invisible, they're that, that they'd be safe when in reality they're not. And so like, that's what caused, that's what's going on with this new mission. It causes people to hide and by hiding, by being siloed, that they become more vulnerable. And then I asked that community don't become like that. It's like the shame culture in our, you know, in our generation, the Southeast Asian, where we don't talk about nothing. Right. And that's actually not really productive for healing at all. That's actually the perpetuation of trauma. And so like we need to talk about crimmigration, criminal justice, we need to talk about social reform. Even something as simple as like, did you vote. That are who are able to vote like you need to vote. And don't complain about what's going on if you didn't vote. And so that's a hard conversation with our families, that I have with my family. You know, when they complain, I say, did you vote? No? Well, you got nothing to complain about. Right? But the other thing is, I think the other word that popped in my mind is proximity. How do we get our, people. To come close to the problem and to talk about it. We're all close to the problem, but we don't talk about it. And so like, you know, hopefully people like formerly incarcerated people, like APSC4, we're making that difference. We're bringing voice to our community that don't want to talk about it. Even our community that fight against us and tell us not to remain silent. Like we're like, no, like my family tell me, don't talk about it. Like, I'm like, I'm going to talk about it. You know, either you're with me or not, regardless, I'm gonna talk about it because we need to talk about we need to, we need to heal from all this trauma.   Miko Lee: [00:46:58] Thanks, Ke. Maria, what are your thoughts on how this new administration is impacting your population?    Maria Legarde: [00:47:05] Well, he succeeded in creating that climate of fear. That he wanted to, you know, that's the one thing that he did, but like yesterday I was with a group of community members up here in the Central Valley, and, we were talking about how, you know, when I was growing up, 1986, it's a revolution in the Philippines, when the church and the state, you know, it's always separated, right? But it was that one time. That the church and the state stood together to overthrow a dictator. And if it happened in history once, right, I, there's that hope. And so for my Filipino community that are in fear of what's going on in Trump 0, especially the ones in SoCal, know, knowing their rights and everything that we've talked about for the last week already, right? It's good to know those things, creating that space for them to talk is what my family is helping with others too. So here, my husband and my mom at work, like this is what needs to be done. You know, this is what needs to be done. There's a lot of our Hispanic over there, in the community, and this is what you need to tell them, translate it, so we know what we need to do, so it's our job to, disseminate the information and show them how it's done, so for our Filipino folks, It was actually, you know, my family, some of my family members that gave me a call. It's like, okay, so what do we do again? You know, I said, I'm going to send you some red cards in the mail if not printed. Like, well, I don't have a printer. So just doing my part to make sure that my family is well equipped, their family, their community, wherever they're at. It helps alleviate that fear. And I always tell them like, Yeah, sometimes it would creep in. And when it does happen to me, Bun knows, I go to Bun, I go to my mom, I go to my brother, I cry if I have to, because I just need to release it. And I tell them, just do it! If you need to yell, yell! But, you already succeeded. Then what? But like you said, you know, the laws are changing every day. And so, you earned it. Then fight for it. And when you fight for it, did things happen because you're in this fight and you don't give up and that's what resilient people are. Immigrants are resilient. We're the backbone of the economy. I mean, if they don't know that by now, I don't know what world they're living in or what planet they're living in, because we're showing them that we are the backbone of the economy. You know, and without the hardworking immigrants, would America be really that great? Because we add to that greatness.    Miko Lee: [00:49:26] Thanks, Maria. Peejay, what are your thoughts on Trump 2.0 and the impact on the community?   Peejay Ai: [00:49:31] I think it's terrorism, right? For me, I think, like, when I think about Trump 2.0, I mean, like, there's a lot of stuff on the news about, Trump using anti terrorism, sentiment, to try to scare people into passing all these bills and justifying, treating other people as terrorism, but I think, like, we live here, like, we are being terrorized right now, by the whole Trump 2. 0 process, by, like, separating people from their family, creating fear, attacking people at their home, like, all those are, like, Formal terrorism, you know, I think to me is like, how do you treat human being that way? You know, and, I can't believe that's the best option that you could think of. Of how to solve whatever immigration problem that they feel like they're having, but yeah, I think this is a way to like create separation between community, right? You're pitting people against each other. Like you said, you know, like when people live.   Miko Lee: [00:50:11] in a classic divide and conquer mode.   Peejay Ai: [00:50:14] divide and conquer. Yeah. And I don't think it's fair, you know, I don't think anyone have a right to treat human being that way, you know? create more trauma and justify it as the right thing to do. Cause I don't think, creating that kind of pain. I mean, it's human right. You know, but you're violating, human right. And even the constitution of being violated and that, and people think it's okay that is happening, you know, so if, if, and the constitution are created to safeguard people, right. Safeguard United States the citizen. Right. So if you can't even honor your own constitution, how do you know anyone here is safe? I think we're creating. A lot of damage, right? I think this administration is creating a lot of damage in this policy. And I think, I don't think we're going to recover from it. And people is going to wake up one day and realize that the people they care about is no longer there. And it's going to be too late to be sad because, you know, they're gone, right? and I think people should do something about it. You know, now we have a chance to come together as a community and fight back, you know, and keep each other safe and show the world like what community can do for each other, what it means to each other, right? And I'm, I'm sad, you know, I'm really sad. I have a lot of fear for myself, for my, brothers and sisters, APSE four, and I'm very sad for my community around me and the client that I serve, you know, I think it's tragic. And we're now, At this stage, you know, being in America, I mean, like, that's just insane to me. yeah, I think terrorism has a very crazy definition and I think, you know, if you unpack it, you can see it happening in this, with the way people are being treated right now, from this whole process.   Miko Lee: [00:51:28] Feel like we all need what Ke's saying, take a breath and, lean into the resilience we were talking about earlier. This is why I was asking you questions. You all are some of the strongest people I know, like how do we keep the strength? How do we continue on? I want to move us toward my last question for all of you, which is around a liberatory future and what does it look like? Dr. Bettina Love, who, as you all know, is an amazing teacher around abolitionism, talks about how abolitionist teaching is not just about tearing down and building up, but also about the joy necessary to be in solidarity with others. Knowing that your struggle for freedom is constant, but that there is beauty in the camaraderie of creating a just world. So my question for us to leave in a dreamy note, is what is your dream of a liberatory future? What does that look like for you?   Chanthon Bun: [00:52:22] I'm a father, grandfather. For me, a liberatory future is folks could just live with their family happy. Thank you. You know, we have the worries of, making money and all that, but beside all that, just having the breath to share with your, your family, you know, the feeling of true freedom, right? Like, I don't even know how that looks like or how it feels. Cause haven't got there yet, but there's moments when I spend with my kids and my grandkids. So I want that moment to be longer.   Miko Lee: [00:52:52] Thanks, Bun. Anybody else have their dream of a liberatory future?   Ke Lam: [00:52:57] For me, a future is where there is no us versus them. There is a place where community could come together, break bread, despite different languages. and then part of that is, where members of community that has been a silo for so long can actually come to, to ask for help. You know, there's no fear to, right now I have a friend who's so afraid to ask for help and in the shadow, because a part of it is also a liberatory future. It's like, Not carrying on the shame of the past, breaking a lot of those intergenerational trauma. All right, where it's, you know, it doesn't matter if you've been convicted of a crime, if you're a refugee, if you're darks complected, or you're like completed, there's like no biases in a laboratory future where we share in each other's wealth and happiness. your happiness is my happiness. And there's no need to like, I need to have what you have to be on the same status like it's like no social class, like, there is none. We're all equal. You know, we all have universal health care and, and education, and it's just, and universal childcare as well. We definitely need that because it's so expensive, but it just, it just, for me, it's a place where it's like a utopia, a liberatory future. It's like a dream. Right. And I think, A liberatory future is like one win at a time, but not just one small one, but big wins.   Miko Lee: [00:54:20] Thanks, Key. Peejay, what are your thoughts?   Peejay Ai: [00:54:23] I just want to not live in fear. you know I've Live in fear since the day I was born, and I continue to live in fear to today. And I feel that journey has not ended for me and my family. You know, fear from being murdered and fear from genocide, fear of incarceration, fear of family separation. You know, I haven't had, I have not had a stable life. You know, until today, I'm still living in limbo, right? I was born into it. And so for me, it's just not simple, you know, like I just want what any kid wants, you know, in a family, you know, to be loved, to feel safe, to be accepted. And to be with my family, that's really all I want, you know, just to be a normal kid, to be a normal person with a normal life without having to be afraid all the time.   Miko Lee: [00:55:01] Thanks, Peejay. Maria, what are your thoughts on what does a liberatory future look like?    Maria Legarde: [00:55:06] Think for me, like, everyone shared, you know, what the future looks like. one thing is that not have, not looking behind me or, you know, just walking, enjoying a walk out there without having to fear that is somebody going to come out of that corner. want a future where, you know, finally I'm at a place in my life where I'm able to make Decisions, good rational decisions I'm able to take care of myself, my family, my loved ones, my community, I'm able to give back more than I thought I could, you know, and I'm living that life where I can actually make a difference. You know, who would have thought little old me? Is going to be able to make a difference in people's lives. I just want to be able to continue that and love, you know, and share that love and joy and with everybody. And that's the kind of future like what he said, you know, the kind of future where everybody would have the help that they need. If they need someone, they can go to the next person without having to fear if they're going to get be judged or treated differently because of the color of their skin. Or because of the way they talk or because of the way they look, you know, I just want that kind of future where we can all be happy, and life is full of challenges, but I want that future that we, I know that we can all depend on each other and grow together. That's the kind of future that I want.    Miko Lee: [00:56:27] Thank you so much to the APSC4 Peejay, Maria, Bun, and Ke for sharing your stories, your fight, your leadership, your advocacy, and also what does a liberatory future look like, which is just living without fear, being able to be with our families, being able to celebrate and take joy in beloved community, and not to have to worry, but just breathe and be with each other. I really appreciate y'all and all the work that you're doing and encouraging our big community to come out and celebrate February 28th at Edge on the Square in San Francisco, Chinatown. Thanks, y'all. Please check out our website, kpfa.org. To find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. APEX Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tangloao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.    The post APEX Express – 2.6.25 – Arriving: APSC4 Part I appeared first on KPFA.

Send us a Text Message.In todays episode, Rob and Craig discuss the BIG weekend, checking out all that happened, soooooo Many Millionaires, where you one?Rob tells us why Munzee was slow, and what they are doing about it for the future, along with addressing concerns in the Water Cooler, before chatting all things Mental, EleMENTAL.... with the new secret zeeops. (Have you got yours yet?) Ending the sow with a question of the week, from our mate PeeJay, on the Munzee Maniacs Podcast. Before a great tip for every player ... USE CUPPAZEE. Rob YoutubeLou Youtube  Social Media Links Website iOS App LinkGoogle Play App LinkMunzee Facebook PageMunzee InstagramMunzee Water CoolerMunzee Garden Painter on FacebookMunzee Maniacs Podcast on AppleMunzee Calendar / Event Page Qrew & ZeeQrew Info

Send us a Text Message.Rob doesn't spill any more beans in todays episode, but both him and Craig do chat all about the big weekend that was, Rob chats all things clan wars, the new Travelling Troupe MOB's and scatters, plus the Flat Scatter weekend for the Disk Golf Basket. PeeJay from the Munzee Maniacs Podcast had a great question for Rob, followed by Requests and some Fun Tips.  Whelen Youtube MinnesoataBoy Youtube  Social Media Links Website iOS App LinkGoogle Play App LinkMunzee Facebook PageMunzee InstagramMunzee Water CoolerMunzee Garden Painter on FacebookMunzee Maniacs Podcast on AppleMunzee Calendar / Event Page Qrew & ZeeQrew Info

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Important Resources: APSC 4 Action Toolkit Asian Prisoner Support Committee Website | Instagram Purchase Arrival: Freedom Writings of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Transcript: Cheryl: Good evening! You were currently tuned in to APEX Express. I'm your host Cheryl Truong, and tonight is an AACRE night. What is AACRE, you might be asking. Comprised of 11 grassroots, social justicegroups, the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality Network — AACRE — leverages the power of its network to focus on long-term movement building and support for Asian Americans committed to social justice. Speaking of AACRE groups, APEX Express is proud to be a part of the AACRE network.  Tonight. I have the incredible honor to introduce you all to some very special friends of mine, members of the Asian Prisoner Support Committee APSC, which is also one of the 11 groups with the AACRE network. These individuals are among the most incredible people I've had the privilege to know. And tonight we'll be delving it to their stories and the important initiative that they're leading which is called #PardonAPSC4?  Their journey is not only one of immense resilience and courage, but also a Testament to the importance of community care and how community based approaches keep us safe way more than surveillance institutions or police ever will. So join us as they share their stories and also stick around to learn more about APSC's newest anthology, Arrival: freedom, writings of Asian and Pacific Islanders, where you can actually find some of their art and writings in physical form. So to start here with us, are Maria, Peejay, Bun, and Ke who put the four in APSC4. Peejay, do you mind kicking us all off with what the #PardonAPSC4 for campaign is all about?  Peejay: So APSC 4 are staff members at APSC and we all do different work at A PSC but our primary is helping our community. In general, fighting deportation, helping folks come home and reintegrate to society and supporting them with other needs that they may have, right? Mainly just to become successful citizen and. APSC4, despite our work, we all have backgrounds in incarceration, we're impacted, which means we're also at risk for deportation. And the campaign is born out of a desire to keep us home to fight our own deportation. And so we need the Governor Newsom to actually issue a pardon so that we can continue to do this work and stay with our family. Because otherwise, they would eventually, deport us. And as immigration is a very hard thing to deal with, and there's not a lot of options, especially with folks with convictions. And pardonness for us is like mainly the only thing that can help us stay home. And APS v4 mainly is to, it's a campaign to ask community members to support us, that mean elected official, that mean community members that you know, family members, anyone who's willing to support us, and basically uplift our campaign as well as reach out to elected and to Governor Newsom and encourage him to pardon us so that we can stay home and do this work. Cheryl: Thanks Peejay. You're literally hearing about the campaign directly from the people who are leading the way. So we know about APSC 4. We've heard a little bit about their campaign. But I also want you all to know about the people within APSC 4. And this is very in theme, especially with APSC's upcoming anthology Arrival, which captures stories of Asian American Pacific Islander individuals inside prisons, or who have been detained by ICE or have been recently released from ICE or prisons and as well as stories from impacted family members. So until you all get your hands on that, which is available for purchase now at Eastwind Books of Berkeley Berkeley. Which you can get at asiabookcenter.com. I would love to introduce you all to the beautiful, incredible, inspiring people of APSC 4. everyone's nodding their head. It's really cute. So let's start with,, maybe Ke, do you want to introduce yourself? Let our listeners know, who are you? Who are your people? Where do you come from?  Ke: Hi, my name is Ke Lam. My first, that's my full name is Nip Ke Lam which means in finishing my father's business in my language. So I'm Chinese Vietnamese. I also am a refugee baby who came here when I was four years old to America. So my people are all the impacted folks, all the juvenile lifers. And everyone that's trying to make a change in their life and looKeng for a second chance.  Cheryl: Thank you so much. I love that. Maria, do you want to introduce yourself next? Who are you? Who are your people?  Maria: Hi, my name is Maria Legarda and I'm the reentry consultant for APSC. My people are impacted folks, incarceration, immigration, detention, the survivors and, the resilient women who are still inside, those are my people. And my APC family and the community members who work towards change to improve our communities. People just didn't decide one day to commit crimes, right? There's always a reason behind because of events that led to that. People that make changes in the community to help it make it better for them to have that. Those are my people too. You know what else? I forgot what the question was.  Cheryl: Maria, you answered. Everything perfectly. The question was who are you and who are your people? And you answered it by giving a huge list of who your people are and I think that's very definitive of who you are as a person. But is there anything else you want to add to that, Maria?  Maria: I think that covered it all.  Cheryl: Beautiful. All right, Peejay, do you want to introduce yourself?  Peejay: So I am Peejay, real name is Borey Ai, but I go by Peejay, and Peejay has been in my life for many years longer than I can remember, but it has shifted and shaped in different forms, but I answer to both now, and I am a child refugee, I'm Cambodian, my family escaped the Khmer Rouge when it happens, and then I immigrate to Thailand to find refuge, and my mom and my dad met there, and so I was conceived and was born in Thailand, came to the United States when I was five, and yeah, and then got in trouble, trying to resettle into the, to the new environment, new culture, and I end up in prison. I share that to say that my people are folks who are impacted, people who I can relate to, and my experiences, so the refugee folks community And, my elders at CERI, obviously APSC and AACRE are all my community members and anyone who is in a fight, like where I'm learning, as I sit in a lot of different coalition spaces, doing my work, as an advocacy with APSC, and I've learned that a lot of community members are sharing the same work, sharing the same values, sharing the same goals, and the people that I'm in community with, so they are my people. And yeah, just like with Marie, like anyone who's striving to make changes to better our community members who are impacted is my community.  Cheryl: And last but not least Bun.  Bun: Hey, y'all! Thank you. My name is Chanton Bun, but I just go by Bun. I'm a, I was born during the genocide in Cambodia. I grew up in the refugee camps. Came to the U. S. when I was about six or seven years old. I'm formerly incarcerated. I'm a father of three boys. Grandfather Yeah, I'm the reentry coordinator here at Asian Prince Support Committee. And I also mentor at risk youth in our community. My folks are the incarcerated, the formerly incarcerated, the community the youth that is growing in our community now. And just supporting our community through a lot of these traumas that we still  Cheryl: It's so interesting hearing all of you introduce yourself because I work a lot with the APSC four members just through AACRE. But and I just learned that bun is a grandfather.    Bun: Yeah, I was gonna say that I'm not that old, but I am a grandfather.  Cheryl: All right now is that we've had the chance to hear from each of you about your backgrounds and the communities that you represent and the people that you carry with you. I would like to delve a bit deeper into your personal stories. Each of you have faced unique challenges and experiences that have shaped who you are today. Could you each share with our listeners a bit about some of the hardships that you have all encountered along your journey?  Bun: Oh, I can go.  Yeah. Growing up yeah, I grew up in the refugee camps. So I was faced with like starvation not knowing what safety was, there was, living in the refugee camps. There were so many I saw so many people hurt or walKeng in almost dead. I think I was numb to it coming to this country. I was faced with bullying a lot and being discriminated against. Being poor wasn't really. And I didn't realize we were poor because in the refugee camp, we were poor. So like coming here, we had, we had a roof on our head and food and, family all around the fear of, somebody coming into our house, just taKeng our stuff or, doing what they want because we were in refugee camps when I came to the United States. I didn't realize we were poor for a long time. But the bullying and the discrimination was really hard. I remember even the school discriminated against us because I guess they didn't know where we're from. One of my memory was me and my cousins and an uncle, we went to school and we all wore slippers. They called our parents to come pick us up and say, you guys cannot wear slippers. You need shoes. And like our parents didn't realize that we're like that's what we wear for shoes. So that's one of the first like memories. I knew that we didn't understand the U. S. And then, you know, Keds around the neighborhood. We're just picKeng on us because we didn't speak English or we didn't understand the rules we were, and then it was just like a bunch of us Keds. Cause when I came to LA, I lived in an apartment with about 25 of us living there because our cousins and stuff, all we came from Texas, our cousins were here. And we just wanted to be together because we've been separated for a while. And all we knew was me, my uncles, and my cousin, we walked everywhere together. Some of us caught on caught English earlier, so we understood more, some didn't. So we're just guiding each other. And then when we were bullied Our parents told us to just take it. And we knew that in, in the refugee camp we had no power. We took whatever they wanted. I remember getting robbed like three times a week and they're taKeng our pots and pans. So like keeping quiet was a thing. So we just kept quiet and we didn't trust authorities at all. Never complained to the principal or the teacher at all, but then we grew into That, that, that, that fear grew into anger and the need was protection. So the boys in, in, in my family is nah, we're not taKeng this no more. And we just started defending ourself, fighting and just or my thought, and I'm pretty sure like all my, my, my uncles and my cousin's thoughts were like, we got to protect. Each other because we can't walk home crying all the time or we can't walk home seeing our cousin walk home crying. So we just said the next time we're going to fight back and whatever the consequences and the cost. The consequences of coming home, like the teacher calling like, Hey, you're going to fight. That's what the consequences because our parents was like against fighting against violence. But, the consequences of getting detention in class wasn't, that wasn't nothing to us. We were scared of coming home, but that, that led into a lifestyle of violence, a lifestyle of feeling that I need protect myself from everything and don't matter what the situation was. And, it tumbled into joining gangs for protection and in the gang lifestyle. overtook that fear and we just, gravitated to it because it gave us strength. It gave us a sense of, sense of brotherhood, a sense of safety, a sense of I'm not going to get hurt no more. So that's how my life spiraled.  Cheryl: Yeah, the interesting thing about radio is that y'all can't see their faces when Bun was telling the story, literally everyone in this room right now, we're nodding their heads, and y'all can't see that because it doesn't translate into radio. Ke, I saw you nodding your head a lot. Do you want to share your story?  Ke: My story is very similar to probably Bun's and Peejay's being come here as a refugee baby. I don't remember my whole journey to America. I just remember my journey in America. I just, I remember growing, we moved around a lot in California. We came into San Francisco, moved around. I remember home for me was the barrier, but predominantly San Francisco. And we moved all over the city. We lived in Chinatown, 100th Point, Petro Hill, Sunset. I remember as a Ked parents separated when I was about six. No, in and out of relationship when I was seven. So they, they basically wasn't around for me or each other. They dealt with, dealing with trauma. My mom lost her parents on the way to America. Yeah. My mom's parents was actually murdered by pirates in the open South China sea. So she dealt with that and she did not deal with that to cope with that. So she, she did what she did best. And that's, is finding an end jobs and then dealing with a husband who was abusive. And so we live when we moved to patrol Hill. We got our place got robbed all the time. We ended up having to put bars on our doors and our windows. I remember my mom would say, don't go outside. Knows anytime of the day. So I basically was like in a prison in our little apartment. And I had to run this. I remember trying to go to school one time by myself and I got jumped multiple times. I remember they, they do rocks at me. They do run eggs at me. They push me push me down. They didn't let their dogs chase after me. So the funny joke about that, I said, I was grateful for them because they actually made me really good at track and field, so I was able to run real fast and jump fences, so that was, I like, I was grateful for that. But I took, the route to school was only five minute walk, but it took me 30 minutes every day to, one each way to come to go to school and come home, just so I could avoid my bullies. I remember one time they actually caught up to me when I was like eight years old, and I had to, I had really no choice but to fight. And after that day, after they jumped me, after I fought one of those guys, I remember I was standing over the Ked that I fought, and I saw the parent just yelling at me like how you let that chink, that Chinese Ked, that chink beat you up. And then I saw his friend walKeng up to me like they about to assault me, and I'm like, I'm about, I'm, I'm about to get messed up, but instead they congratulated me. They said good job, welcome to the neighborhood. And so I'm like, from that day on, I normalized violence. Violence is the way to solve your problems, and it's also the way to be accepted in the neighborhood. And that's, and that opened my eyes to, everywhere I looked, there was violence, all different forms of violence. My mom was gone all the time. She was never home. I became a parent. My mom had my second, third oldest my brother. And I end up becoming a parent at eight years old, raising my little brother for a whole year by myself because the neighbor was some old elderly Asian couple just didn't care about him. He had diaper rashes and I just took care of him. I built a lot of resentment towards my mom. I'm like, you abandoned us. You abandoned me. You abandoned my brother. What Kend of mother are you? I remember I went out, I stole diapers, stole formulas, stole food, also begged for money at the streets not in the neighborhood, but, different parts of the cities and yeah, it just, I, it felt, I felt like my mom didn't care. My dad was never around, he was out of the picture, so I didn't even think about him. My teenage years. I became really good at sports, played a lot of sports growing up. At the age of 15, we moved to Richmond, California, where I got introduced to the gang lifestyle. I didn't know nothing about gangs. It was the first time I actually grew up, I went to a school where there was a lot of Asians. In San Francisco, all the schools I went to were predominantly Blacks and Mexican and Pacific Islanders. And I didn't know, certain words meant certain things, and then I learned what a blood and a crib is. I didn't know what that was, because I remember growing up in San Francisco, we used the word, the term blood all the time as a form of, like family. And so when I went to Richard and they were like, what's up? I was like, what's up, blood? And they were like, just cuz. I'm like, cousin? I was confused. I didn't like, I didn't know what that meant. But then I didn't know that by me hanging out with them that their enemies also became my enemies. And and then I remember if I walked around by myself, their enemy would try to attack me thinKeng I was one of them, which I wasn't. And so I became a wannabe at the time and I like associate with them. I started KecKeng with them. But one thing that drew me really close to the gang, the Asian gang, was that our story was very similar to each other. They understood my story, understood this story. We all struggled. I remember growing up, I had to be a translator for my parents, my mom. She would take me out of school and I resented her for that. Why? I didn't want to learn English. And so that was, and that just came on as I got older. That resentment came and then I committed my crime when I was 17 years old because I was trying to show my homeboys like you got to show me love. I'm gonna be there. I want to be the best I could be. I wanted a name for myself. I wanted that respect. And I didn't think about the consequences at the time. My life was on, it was on the road down destruction. So I didn't care about myself and I didn't care about nobody else and I didn't care about my siblings either at the time. And so that's what ended up happening to me before, growing up as a Ked. Cheryl: What about you, Peejay? Peejay: Yeah, I think what Keechi said, like my life And Bun and his similar, like I came here when I was five and then like I got bullied right away, right? Like at the earlier stage. And at the time I didn't even, I didn't even understand it, even know what it is. And I think like this one story Kend really highlighted my introduction to bullying. I was in the park, a bunch of Keds laughed at me, right? They're laughing, right? And so I'm like, at the time I didn't know they were laughing at me. They were just laughing. And so I laughed. I thought they were laughing, because we're friends or something, right? They liked me. So I laughed too. I didn't know what that was laughing about, but one of the Keds got angry and came up and punched me in the face. I realized, he punched me in the face, he was screaming and yelling at me, I didn't know what he was saying but I understood right then and there he wasn't laughing with me, he was laughing at me. So what happened, I laughed too, so it got him angry, learned right away, What like bully was right and then I wasn't like well accepted, share the same story of like most Southeast Asian community, we get spit on we get beat up, in school and things like that. But I think the message I got, most deeply about I'm not wanted, is, we talked about that the Cleveland elementary school shooting, that was where I was with the first school shooting in the United States where Southeast Asian community was targeted by, And I lost my cousin during a school shooting. But that was like a big statement, some dude showed up in the, in the playground, climbing up the roof with an AK 47 and shooting at us, right? They were like telling me, that's a big statement you're not wanted, for me it was like, I grew up in a very bad environment as it is, where there's a lot of gangs, there's a lot of violence, a lot of shooting, a lot of, stuff happening in the neighborhood and then, getting constantly bullied all the time and, spit on and tell you that you're not wanted to go back to your country. And then when that happened, I just shut down, I didn't believe that my environment is safe anymore. And I, obviously when you're in a refugee camp, like when I go you don't feel safe, you know what safety is, right? So I grew up never feeling safe, right? And I was moving around. And so that led me to gangs, right? Like he, I joined a gang. I felt the love in the gang. The bully stopped, and they started giving me hugs, showing me love and as someone who craves acceptance, since the day you step into a new country, just wanting to belong somewhere that felt really good, and I was a Ked. I was like, man, I felt so good. Like I felt like I belong somewhere. Like people care about me. This is my family. And for me, like that, that bought me into this idea, like this is what most of my life is about. I'm going to give everything for these, for the homies. And, the Ke, I agreed to commit a crime, At 14 and end up in the prison system as one of the youngest juvenile lifer, and I was pretty much raised in the system. I think I spent more time in prison than I've been home, been out on the street. So everything I learned, in prison, right? And then I came home as an adult after 20 something years. And not like trying to just, as an adult in a new society with not a lot of experience. So fortunately, people like he, people like Bun, Maria, who does this work, that's why APC4 Reentry Program is so important, right? Because people like me didn't know how to use a cell phone, didn't know how to turn on a computer, didn't do a lot of stuff, right? I've learned a lot of stuff in prison. So I have a lot of advantage as I was investing in myself and doing my programming to earn my parole, but even still this stuff, I didn't know, and I imagine people it was worse than both of I was to have some knowledge and have a lot of access that I did, but I'll show you, I'll show you to say it's hard, it's hard in our work, help transition. I remember he took me shopping, show me how to use Bart, how to use public transportation. The trajectory of my life would have much been different. If I grew up in a different environment, like that's something I was clear about. And so now like we try to create those environment for our community because we'll know better. We learn from our past experience and now like giving back to our community. Is, for me, it's like, for me, like this work is my life, like it's my life because I've lived through it, like someone saved my life, I didn't want to make it home without people showing up, doing this work. So I feel like for me giving back and continuing this work is part of the commitment. Creating change and giving back, but I feel like I was meant to do this, like I, I came home with a purpose, I went to prison with absolutely no clue, just trying to survive. And I came home with a purpose. I feel like I have some Kend of meaning in my life. So that's Kend the short summary of my life. I like my connection to APS C is my work and my work is my life. Cheryl: (Peejay I think your genuine passion for what you do really shows, and I'm sure our listeners can feel it too.) Maria, please. We would love to hear your story. .  Maria: For me. Unlike Peejay, Ke, and Bun, I wasn't a refugee, during the war. I immigrated to the U. S. During the time when the economic the economy in the Philippines is not doing great. I was born during the time of the Marcus dictatorship. That was during Ferdinand Marcus regime in the Philippines where we were under his dictatorship for 30 years. During that time, growing up. I had siblings and my younger sister became ill, with my parents being gone all the time taKeng care of my sister. It was a difficult childhood, from what we were used to, and just the changes. In our lives. And at that time, my parents did the best that they could to support us, all three of us, but because they don't know actually what was going on with my sister, right? It was difficult for a parent to see their child. Child suffering, and she was young. She was only four. So at that time, I was left to take care of my brother. And it was the two of us, fending for ourselves. It took a toll on my parents, and the time spent with me and my brother and my sister were very limited. And I felt abandoned. This was our life before, my sister got sick. We were happy. We're going on vacations summer. By the beach, even if it's just, right there, you go to the beach with your chocolates and you just hop on the, the side of it's the islands, right? So we had fun. We just stopped doing all those things. And the only thing we knew was my sister was sick. That was it. My parents didn't know how to explain something that they don't know either what was going on. So I guess that my expectation is such a young age is, my parents were in my world. So expecting them to tell us like what was going on and the feeling of that abandonment and that unworthiness being unloved and cared for really was there, it's just there, but I never manifested it because I didn't know how to, but I knew what I was feeling inside. And so when parents fought my sister's condition got worse and eventually at the age of 10, she passed away, so my parents would, my parents, other than the heartache, the heartbreak of losing a child was left with huge financial debt. In, in our culture, the eldest takes care of the family, right? So at that time I was going to school my parents provided for us that we can still go to school. It was hard. We managed it. We went through a lot, but in the end my parents did the best that they can for me and my brother. So I, I had the opportunity, to come to the U S. And I came here by myself without any contingency, any plan, but the idea that maybe when I get there, then I'll figure it out because I see a lot of people leaving the Philippines, coming over here, finding work. So I'll also do that. And that was the trend during that time. In the 90s, a lot of people were immigrating to the U. S. to find like a better life, right? And so when I came during that time I mentioned that longing, the attention, that abandonment. And so I was here alone and I met someone. I met someone and everything that I needed, that person listened to me. He cared. He loves me. He actually, somebody does actually care how I feel. And so I never thought that he would be the person to hurt me. And so we were talKeng like really getting to know each other. And then six months, we decided to meet. And on the day we met, I became a victim of sexual assault. And Again, the, it was worse, there were, I don't even have words for how, I felt after the betrayal because my whole world just shattered, and being alone here, it wasn't, it's not like the Me Too movement that we have now. Back then, we don't speak of it. And one thing I did at that time that I tell the women now, the young women, it is not your fault because I met him. Do I really know him? No. Growing up in a culture where you just don't go out with somebody you don't know, right? That was the time then people were meeting chat rooms, online dating. So I carried that guilt with me that it was my fault. For a long time, it took me a long time to really process that it wasn't my fault. It was done to me. I didn't ask for it. But I carried that. So drugs were the only thing that I was able to cope with because it made me numb. It made me forget. It gave me that false sense of power that I can take control back of my life. Not knowing that once I use drugs, I, it, I become numb to it all. And that eventually led me to incarceration. And so now after years of self introspection and just understanding what has, what the challenges and, the difficulties and all the heartbreaks that I had went through in life, going to self help groups and hearing the other survivors overcome it And stepping out of that that it was my fault, having to hear that the first time is what broke me free from that. Now, in my line of work, I can easily recognize it, because I was there. I know how it felt. And I always I've been, blessed to be able to grant that space, that safety space for our folks, men and women, when they share their struggles, because I've been there. I know what it's like. So I do, I'm passionate about my work because I've seen how I've turned things around. I saw myself, how I picked myself back up. I saw myself when I was really down that at the end of the day when people around you care enough to get to know you more than your past, you're going to get through it, and my, work in APSC And Ke would be the I came out of detention and Ke was one of the first one of the first people that I met other than Nia, Nia was a volunteer at that time with APSC and being undocumented it was hard for me to get anything. So Ke was there from the beginning. This is what you need to do. Don't worry. I'm going to walk you through it. And without Ke. guiding me through those steps it would have been much harder. It was already hard, but this was going to be extremely harder if he didn't give me the guidance. He didn't know what was going to happen, but he knew something to guide me. So that's why that's how I Eventually got to work with APSE because the first time they had their internship program, I think five minutes into posting it, I already submitted my application because I knew that the journey that I was taKeng on at that time as an undocumented immigrant, I know that there's going to be ways that I'm gonna, I have to find another way. Because I'm not the only one, and I know a lot of women coming home, men and women that are coming home are going to need their IDs, are going to need their social security, are going to need all their documentation, and who's best to explore them, right? Than me. Why? Because right now, this is where God has me, right? He has me on this path to help people. So let's get it done. And so that's why I stay with my APSC because I believe in what they do for a community because they started with me.  Cheryl: Maria!. That is such a beautiful point. And I think that last sentence that you shared is really why I admire the work of APC. So, so incredibly much, like not only is it work. For. Impacted folk. But it's also led for and by impacted folk who really understand the experiences of what it's like. And when your work is led by those who have truly experienced the impact firsthand. You approach people with a level of empathy that makes a real difference. And I'm listening to the things that you've all shared. You know, it's clear that what often matters most are the things that people like me who have never been behind bars often take for granted, you know, it's things like. You know your stories of needing Ke to. Teach you how to navigate BART? How do you secure your ID? What's a. Social security number. And the emotional support that comes with helping someone reintegrate into society. I truly don't know where a community would be without the incredible work that you all do with APC for.   Now I'm eager to learn more about the impactful work that you're doing within our community. What has been some of the most rewarding aspects of your work in. Reentry support and mentorship. Time is a factor. So maybe we could hear from maybe two of you. Bun: I think the most rewarding about re entry for me is, Watching the person I'm helping know that they have support, in my life there was nothing out there to support us other than gangs. But just. Watching them know that they have support, empowering them and their family to understand the system understand a person when they're coming home with family relations, and also relationships with their Keds because a lot of us have been incarcerated for so long. Just that, like he always say the first 90 days are important to show them the support that they really need because like myself, I was lost. I was like a loss, the last person coming home. I didn't even know how to cross the street. It took somebody to come take me to cross the street and walk me down the street because I wouldn't do what I was like, I can't do it. It's terrifying. But yeah just. A lot of folks often think like reentry is like a, no, we have to go get you a job, get you this. And those are important too. But the important thing is the little things like, teaching, teaching somebody how to answer their phone, teach them how to, setting up their calendar, teaching them across the street, walKeng, maKeng decisions when we're ordering stuff, taKeng them shopping, letting them shop for themselves. So these are the little things that. A lot of us and especially myself, I could speak for having anxiety, it was a really big anxiety of learning how to navigate society when I came home. I think a lot of our folks in reentry and. And it's crazy. Often, like when we take them on everybody in RedsKens is thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm like, what are you thanKeng me for? This is what you deserve, and then you'll hear it. They'll thank us all day. And we want to relate to them. This is what you deserve. This is what all of us deserve when we're coming home. This is what all of us deserve when we're growing up in our communities is this support from people that looks like you. People come from the same background, people that understand you. That's what really give me a lot of joy when I do my work is to seeing folks know that they do have support from folks that have been through it and folks that look like them, folks that's been through things like them. So that's my biggest joy when I do this work,  Ke: I like to jump in real quick I remember when I came home before all the rest of my colleagues here. I had no one like no one knew how to navigate the system. No, I like I came home with a loss of status. So I didn't know that I wasn't American that, I got released from immigration. And it just Kecked me out. And then it's I want to go get an ID. And it's we need two form of IDs. And I'm like, what do you need? They need, they said, we need a birth certificate or a passport. And I said, I have neither, no, neither one. And they said, what about a green card? I said my green card is no good no more. According to what they told me. So I'm like, I have no former I. D. I couldn't get I. D. And it took me a while to get I. D. And just learning how to navigate barred and everything. It was I have a lot of gray hairs behind it. I have my head on, so you can't see, but it was really difficult to navigate. And then it's I had no one that looked like me that went through that process, right? And there was no program for A. P. I. folks that's coming out to have that support. And I'm so grateful for Asian Prison Support Committee for giving me that, for opening that door for me to learn this process, but also to receive the help. And I think for me, the highlight like Bun named a lot of the great stuff. I think for me, the it's my way of maKeng amends for the harm that I caused. That's why I do this work. I can, I could have left this job for a really good trade job, get great money, maKeng six figures a year, but I'm like, I need to get back, because that, this is my way of healing myself, not just the other person, it's just, it's Kend selfish to say that. But I if I can't heal myself, how can I help heal the next person? And that's why I do this work. And I remember one of the guys I picked up from immigration, he's he had a choice of his family and us, formerly incarcerated folks, to pick him up. And he's I'm grateful for you guys to pick me up. And I'm like, why? He said, because you guys understand me. You guys understand if my family came, it would have been a such a disconnect with them because they wouldn't understand it was like you have to do this, you have to do that. And then this is what you should do is but for us like we know what to do, and then we understand like choices, being incarcerated for decades and coming out like choices is really difficult for us, people tell what do you want, and we like, I don't know. We was limited to what we had inside. And so that's why I keep doing this work. Like with the rest of them, it's like giving back, but also at the same time healing. We're on this healing journey together.  Cheryl: I know I only said two people, but I really watched the way Maria's eyes fricKen sparkled when I asked this question. Maria, I want to know what has been the most rewarding part of worKeng at APSC?  Maria: Am I that I'm easily read? No, because the one thing and he and by with no we had a client, she had a drug past these two, she was, she had a, oh my god, I said that backwards past drug use. And she worked on actually worKeng on getting her substance abuse, counseling. So we help her get through it online classes register for her use gift cards to get that online classes paid like every avenue that we could think of we helped her get that in the same time. She was trying to get custody of all her children. And so walKeng her through her online classes and being there by her side, like just cheering her on, you can do this. And so with her heart and mind into it, she was able to do it. She graduated. She finished it. And at the same time it was just getting hit with left and right with different problems, around getting custody of her child children. But because she has the support of a PSE. She said, I would have never been able to get through all this if not for your weekly calls that you check up on us. It doesn't matter whether it's me, whether it's Ke, Bun, because it's a, it's an effort, a team effort, right? Me and Bun would go there when she needed us, as a support. And so when she finally finished her school she was able to go to an internship. And now she works for another nonprofit organization, and she actually refers clients to us now because she became a substance use counselor. And then on top of that, gained custody of her three Keds. How much more work an AP has to do, right? With family reunification, that's what it's all about. It doesn't matter what your past was, it matters like how you're going to move forward. Yeah, your past, they're always going to bring it up, right? Because you have a record. But what they're not going to be able to take away from you is what you go from this point on, from that abusive relationship, and you were able to take it out, and you're able to do something with your life and get your Keds back, and now you have a home for them. That's what the work is about. It's not just about helping people, when they first come home, but it's that care that you nurture them in their journey. That's why our job is not eight to five, unfortunately, and it doesn't, our job doesn't stop after six months. They become family to us and that's really what APSC is about, and that's one of the joys seeing her graduate, become a counselor and have her Keds back. So that's our APSC, one of our stories, our re entry stories that really we talk about it all the time.  Cheryl: I could speak the praises of the incredible work that APSC 4. Does forever. But until then we have to take a quick music break. To our listeners. If you take anything away after hearing these stories, it's that we need to collectively demand that governor Newsome, pardons APSC 4 for. Formerly incarcerated leaders like the APSC four are at the heart of our movement. They're compassion and resiliance inspire us all to create change in our communities. And yet despite their work and transformation. Maria Key bun and PJ remain in this immigration limbo and are at risk of being detained by ice and deported. Uh, deporting APS. Core staff would devastate our community.  So please join me in urging governor Newsome to take action now to pardon APC for. To protect them from deportation by going to this link. bit.ly/APSC4 for all in capital letters. It'll also be linked in our show notes.  Once again, the link is bit.ly/APSC4 this is an all capital letters. This is a direct link to the APC for action toolkit, which will give you different action items you can do to join us in. The fight to part in APC for. There's a call script for governor Gavin Newsome. Demanding the protection of APC for there are sample tweets you can send out. There is a petition. You can sign there also graphics you can share on social media. So please, please check out this link. You could even do this during our music break. Once again, the link is bit.ly/APSC4 N all capital letters. When we come back, we're going to be tackling broader issues and systemic change.  So don't go anywhere.   Cheryl: And we're back. You were listening to apex express on 94.1, FM KPFA and online@kpfa.org. You were just listening to change the world by baby Chris. We have currently with members of APS C. Maria Key PJ and bun. And the first half of the show, we delved into their personal stories, struggles and advocacy efforts. But in order to give you all a comprehensive understanding of their stories. We need to talk about the broader systemic dynamics that are at play. So let's dive back in.   Bun: For me immigration need to look at what we've been through and also what California said, we got a second chance. We earned our second chance. We have proven that we are change, and we, APSE4, have proven that coming back to the community, we are an asset to our community. I think they need to really look into that. Folks that have been have proved themselves through the board, through finishing their term, that we all deserve a second chance. If a citizen deserves a second chance, why not us? And what is the difference, other than we were born somewhere else? Our lives, our family, our communities here. So yeah, they need to really look into what a second chance  Ke: mean. I don't think there's anyone in the world that has not made a bad choice in their life or a mistake. Like to be defined by the worst day of your life for the rest of your life. Like, how is that just, especially in a country that is You know, the pillar of human rights, we say who built America, immigrants built America. How do we make America great again? We save our immigrant and refugee community. That's how we make America great again. It's not by, I look at it when you put people through the immigration system, it's like slavery all over again. Prisons, no different. It's like slavery all over again. If we talk about humanity, we talk about a just system. We talk about second chances. We talk about people. These are people that are incarcerated, not numbers, not products. not just a person that made a terrible choice, these are people, mother, father, grandfather, aunties until we start seeing people as people, we will continue to dehumanize them. And yeah, yes, we made some bad choices in our life. But at the same time, like Bunce said, we are redeemable. Just give us that second chance to show you. And that's what APSC's Board has been doing. We've been showing everyone that we, yeah, we own it. We, yeah, we take accountability for what we've done. At the same time we're showing you that we're not that same person anymore. And put it out there for everyone is yes, look at, don't always look at the harm that people cause, but look at the reason why they made that choice. And if you understand where they came from, it'll tell you why they did what they did, but also you give them that chance, they can show you that they can make a difference. Yeah, I know like  Peejay: the way I see life now, and this is Kend of like mind boggling to me because a lot of people like are conservative or very smart. We're educated. And then, to me, it's if you truly value peace, right? You truly value people's lives. Community, right? You have to treat everyone equally, the same, right? We start treating people differently, you create division, that's how you divide us. California isn't supposed to be a state that is full of division, it's supposed to be, the value is that we're all together, right? We're from all walks of life, and a melting pot, right? Of cultural and diversity, and that's what makes it so amazing and beautiful, and you can find anything here in California from any part of the world. Like we made California an amazing place, right? So then, like, when you see about the anti Asian hate, like, all the movement about solidarity, then you turn around and say, okay we're going to treat these people differently and just deport them because they committed a crime, but then we're going to say, like, all these other people, they redeemed themselves, too, but we're going to give them another chance, to me, that would make no sense, right? You're creating division, we're people, we should treat everybody the same. And we all have, it's not like we didn't earn it, we're not talKeng about giving people a chance to give a chance we're giving people a chance to earn a chance. And then we have proven ourselves. And I think that's a testament, like I'm going to keep living my life the way I live my life. I'm going to keep pushing and helping people because that's what I'm meant to do. And I don't think that's going to change me no matter what people think of me, but I think if people really put money where their mouth is, then they should really more solidarity, like watching people differently when we're trying to bring people together. I don't know. That's, maybe that's too simple, but to me, it's no brainer, if you want to pull us all dirty, then do it. Stop talKeng about it,  Cheryl: maria, did you have anything you wanted to add?  Maria: I second everything that Bun, Ke, and Peejay mentioned, second chance is, to me, it's, we weren't born here, right? But, our community is we're helping our community become safe. We're helping our community thrive, and I'll look at that. Cheryl: I  Maria: got distracted, but they would someone that never had a conviction, what are you doing to help your community thrive? So the only difference between me, but he and Peejay is that we had a conviction. But we're here to serve our community, and yet at any given day, he can just pick us up and deport us. And then what happens, who's going to continue to work, because like I said, our jobs not eight to five, and it doesn't last a six month program. It's a lifetime. No. So who's willing to pick up that responsibility, because we are. So I hope that, in the near future, like the policies and the immigration see past the conviction. And see us that we matter, took us a long time to regain that work to believe in our own worth, because we're now we know what our value is, and we fight for our freedom to stay here to not get sent back to a country we've never been in, because now we know what our value is. We know our community values us, our family holds us dear. And without our work in the community, who's going to save the children, the youth, who's going to help the elders, who's going to bridge that gap, because there are more and more people that's going to be in and out of the system. And who's going to help them. And that's, that's my hope that, one day they see us as equals, and not just. immigrants who are not born here.  Cheryl: I hope that by this, after hearing all of these incredible stories of APSC4, you all know how important and integral that Boone, Peejay, Maria, Ke are to our community. I know just from my own experience that They are core members of my own community, and I don't know where our community would be without them. Learn more about PartinAPSC4 in the show notes. I want to thank all of you so much for coming on our show tonight. Thank you all so much for being here, for sharing your stories, and for continuing this really incredible work that y'all are doing. Yeah, we'll see you on the next show. Thanks, everyone! Thank you, have a good night!  Ke: Alright, bye!  And that's the end of our show. Learn more about the incredible work being done by Apsu for, by checking out the show notes. Don't forget that the APC for action toolkit is also available at the link bit dot Lee slash APC. that's the number for all capital letters. And it's also available in our show notes as well.  And also don't forget to check out the new anthology published by Asian prisoner support committee. APC called arrival freedom, writings of Asian and Pacific Islanders. This anthology was several years in the making.  And offer us an intimate insight into the lived experiences of AAPI communities, entangled within the criminal legal system and immigration. From tales of resilience, amiss adversity to profound reflections on identity and belonging, arrival explores themes of war, memory, prison, transformation, healing, and the pursuit of home.  This is available for purchase at Eastwind books of Berkeley. www.asia book, center.com.  Cheryl Truong: Apex express is produced by Miko Lee, Paige Chung, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar. Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Kiki Rivera, Swati Rayasam, Nate Tan, Hien Nguyen, Nikki Chan, and Cheryl Truong   Tonight's show was produced by me, cheryl. Thanks to the team at KPFA for all of their support. And thank you for listening! The post APEX Express – July 11, 2024 appeared first on KPFA.

Peejay of Pieter-Jan Verachtert is vooral bekend van het danceproject D-Devils. Maar hij heeft al zoveel andere dingen gedaan, van scenario's voor televisieseries en boeken schrijven tot het organiseren van de immens populaire I Love the '90s-party's. In deze aflevering hebben we het met hem over al deze onderwerpen en komen we te weten of de vader van Regi ooit een tranceplaat producete en wat het favoriete spreekwoord is van Peejay.

We are back after postponing recording due to bad health amongst the team! PeeJay, Kevin, and Sarah discuss the March Clan Wars, regaining good health and life as Munzee players in Japan and Malaysia. Also some shoutouts to Craig and Rob over at The Official Munzee Podcast for calming our nerves and sharing lots of good information! (Recorded on March 3rd) Join the Munzee Maniacs Facebook Group! ⁠https://www.facebook.com/groups/259251405864305⁠ Email: ⁠munzeemaniacs@gmail.com⁠ Pee Jay: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/kansai_pee_jay/⁠ Kevin: ⁠http://twitter.com/madformaple⁠ ⁠http://www.instagram.com/jlandkev Sarah: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/sarahkobe/

Iniwan si Peejay ng kanyang ama kaya nabuo sa kanyang puso ang poot at galit.  Bagamat ganito ang kanyang naramdaman ay malaking tulong sa kanya ang pagmamahal ng kanyang ina at lola.  Lumipas ang ilang taon ay pilit niyang hinanap ang kakulangan sa kanyang buhay sa piling barkada at bisyo.  Ganoon pa man ay may malaking puwang pa rin sa kanyang buhay.  All Rights Reserved, CBN Asia Inc.https://www.cbnasia.com/giveSupport the show

PeeJay Walker is a Augusta boxer who just turned pro last weekend. Even though he lost his first professional match, he knows what he did wrong and what he has to overcome for his next bout. Deondre Walker is still undefeated in his professional career going 10-0 and looking forward to his next bout. Coach Ham is a trainer at the Augusta Boxing Club and is one of, if not, the best in the area. To them their teammates are their family, when one falls they all fall. Thank you so much for the continued support! -BR Email us: thesofasessionspod@gmail.com https://linktr.ee/thesofasessions https://www.instagram.com/thesofasessionspod/ https://www.instagram.com/champlifepj/ https://www.instagram.com/walkerboy700/

Happy Holidays everyone! In this episode Kevin, Pee Jay and Sarah talk all about the massive double points weekend and Sarah dragging Pee Jay across parts of Japan to watch HER cap while he had to sit in the car. They also talk about winter plans. PeeJay will be off to Redwood City, California in a few days and needs some Munzee help! They also talk about memorable caps and deploys from the previous week. Also a big thanks to Craig and Rob over at the Official Munzee Podcast for the support, shout outs and much-needed ribbing of Pee Jay!  Join the Munzee Maniacs Facebook Group! ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/groups/259251405864305⁠⁠ Email: ⁠⁠munzeemaniacs@gmail.com⁠⁠ Pee Jay: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/kansai_pee_jay/⁠⁠ Kevin: ⁠⁠http://twitter.com/madformaple⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ Sarah: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/sarahkobe/⁠

게스트 피제이와 나의 공간에 대하여 이야기 합니다. A conversation between Slom and PEEJAY about my space.

Daniella, Peejay and Kiing Daniel ("the tech bros") get into the pressures of social media, mass mentality and how it affects them and their progress. Daniel and Peejay are both leads at the Google developers student's club Tech-U chapter . Join us as we converse on how we navigate through "The Social Media Pressure". Music: DOG EAT DOG II by Odumodublavk X CruelSantino X BellaShmurda

In Episode 52, the gang gets together to talk about weekend Munzee play in historical Japanese sites, walking at night and Sarah and PeeJay will again attempt to get the 100 physical deploys in a day badge.  Join the Munzee Maniacs Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/259251405864305 Email: munzeemaniacs@gmail.com Pee Jay: https://www.instagram.com/kansai_pee_jay/ Kevin: http://twitter.com/madformaple http://www.instagram.com/shizenwildlife Sarah: https://www.instagram.com/sarahkobe/

In this Owl Network Exclusive, Katie Kleinpeter sits down with softball's assistant coach Peejay Brun to talk about her experience so far with the Owls.

Horatio Presents IBIZAHOLIC 79 + SPECIAL GUESTS PEEJAY VINCENT & ANTI.DOT Get ready to experience the ultimate musical journey with Horatio presents Ibizaholic Episode 79! This time, we have a very special guest mix from the magical percussionist Peejay Vincent, who will be going b2b with studio maestro Anti.dot in a special afro house session. In Hour 1, get ready to be transported to the heart of Africa with the unique blend of sounds and rhythms from Peejay Vincent and Anti.dot, as they take over the decks and create a truly unforgettable musical experience. Then, in Hour 2, Horatio will bring his own signature style to the mix with a special afro tribal set, showcasing his talent and skill as a master of the decks. Don't miss out on this incredible episode of Ibizaholic, packed with great music and good vibes. Tune in and get ready to dance! #Horatio #Ibizaholic #Episode79 #SpecialGuestMix #PeejayVincent #Anti.dot #AfroHouse #AfroTribal #B2B #MagicalPercussionist #StudioMaestro #MusicJourney #GoodVibes #WhiteIsle #Ibiza #ElectronicMusic #MixPresentation

Live mix by DJ Peejay recorded on the last night in the Bachata Room @ Aventura Dance Cruise 2023: Labadee, Haiti A big thanks to Aventura Dance Cruise and to all that rocked the night with me at the Bachata Room. Book now and join us for the Final ADC, this time from Tampa, FL to Cozumel, MX https://adctampa2023.aventuradancecruise.com/

Hello Komiks People! Panoorin niyo yung interview ni Peejay Catacutan with BK Peña at Mel Casipit. Pinag-usapan namin ang kaniyang career sa pagko-komiks, Nursing at iba pa. Peejay Catacutan FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/PeejayCatacu… Peejay Catacutan IG: https://www.instagram.com/peejaypo/ #PeejayCatacutan #indiekomikspodcast #IKPKumu The post Peejay Catacutan Interview Drawing Ninja Turtles Heavy Metal Buster and More – IKP appeared first on MEL CASIPIT, Artist.

Hello Komiks People! Panoorin niyo yung interview ni Peejay Catacutan with BK Peña at Mel Casipit. Pinag-usapan namin ang kaniyang career sa pagko-komiks, Nursing at iba pa. Peejay Catacutan FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/PeejayCatacu… Peejay Catacutan IG: https://www.instagram.com/peejaypo/ #PeejayCatacutan #indiekomikspodcast #IKPKumu The post Peejay Catacutan Interview Drawing Ninja Turtles Heavy Metal Buster and More – IKP appeared first on MEL CASIPIT, Artist. The post Peejay Catacutan Interview Drawing Ninja Turtles Heavy Metal Buster and More – IKP appeared first on MEL CASIPIT, Artist.

We are back after a long time. PeeJay and Sarah talk about a fun, yet failed attempt at getting their 100 physical deploys in a day badge and Kevin talks about leaving China for other Munzee playing pastures! They also talk about holiday plans as Sarah plans to visit the United States for Christmas. Join the Munzee Maniacs Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/259251405864305 Email: munzeemaniacs@gmail.com Pee Jay: https://www.instagram.com/kansai_pee_jay/ Kevin: http://twitter.com/madformaple http://www.instagram.com/shizenwildlife Sarah: http://instagram.com/kobses

Hello Komiks People! Panoorin niyo yung interview ni Peejay Catacutan with BK Peña at Mel Casipit. Pinag-usapan namin ang kaniyang career sa pagko-komiks, Nursing at iba pa. The post Peejay Catacutan Interview with BK Pena and Mel Casipit – Komiks Artists appeared first on MEL CASIPIT, Artist.

Hello Komiks People! Panoorin niyo yung interview ni Peejay Catacutan with BK Peña at Mel Casipit. Pinag-usapan namin ang kaniyang career sa pagko-komiks, Nursing at iba pa. The post Peejay Catacutan Interview with BK Pena and Mel Casipit – Komiks Artists appeared first on MEL CASIPIT, Artist.

Kevin, Sarah and PeeJay get back together to chat about their month in Munzee. They recap their play for the month of September and chat a little bit about playing in October. An interesting discussion about playing Munzee in parks comes up too. Parks in Asia are more considered community spaces as opposed to family or children-oriented places. JOIN THE FACEBOOK GROUP! Join the Munzee Maniacs Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/259251405864305 Email: munzeemaniacs@gmail.com Pee Jay: https://www.instagram.com/kansai_pee_jay/ Kevin: http://twitter.com/madformaple http://www.instagram.com/shizenwildlife Sarah: http://instagram.com/kobses

[1] Voicians - Keep Me Under [Liquicity] [2] Murdock, Aleya Mae - Make It [Rampage] [3] Bare Up - Lose Control [BeatsBassLife] [4] 1991 & Henry Dell - Eternity [1991] [5] Notion - Hooked (Grafix Remix) [Musical Freedom] [6] Sigala, Talia Mar - Stay The Night (Tsuki Remix) [Ministry Of Sound] [7] Blanke - Breathe [Deadbeats] [8] Kanine - Division [UNLEASHED] [9] Repair - Find You [Pilot.] [10] Pirapus, Jono Stewart - Have It All [Pirapus] [11] Subshock & Evangelos - The Flute [Welcome] [12] AL/SO - Shake It [Get Hype] [13] Peejay, Panorama - What Almost Was (A-Cray Remix) [Cray Tunez] [14] Low:r & Blooom - I Got Your Love [Liquicity] [15] Mefjus, Camo & Krooked - Break Away [Modus] [16] Exept & Disprove - XXX [Delta9] [17] Gunston - Unit [Hyperactivity Music] [18] Ivory, Hammerhead, Dani King - Bad For You [Monstercat] [19] Justin Hawkes - Black Bloc [Pilot.] [20] DNMO, The Arcturians - Before We Go Down [Deadbeats] [21] Subcurrent - Drone [Surveillance Music] [22] Sign - No Pleasure Responsibility [Surveillance Music] [23] Grafix - Stutter (Circumference Re-Spin) [Hospital] [24] Psynchro - Basic Elements [Axon] [25] MIDNIGHT CVLT, Vizzen - Inner Fire [DEM] [26] CLIQUES., Grim Sickers - Back Up [Cliques Collective Audio] [27] Juno, Alerstorm - Universe [Blackout Music NL] [28] Noisia - Shaking Hands (Redpill remix) [Vision] [29] Vici - Lazer Experiment [III Trident] [30] Noisia - Into Dust (Current Value remix) [Vision] [31] Save The Rave - Rave Is King (Vizzen Remix) [Elektroshok] [32] The Clamps - Savathûn [Kosenprod] [33] Mizo - Take Out [Neuropunk] [34] Black Sun Empire & State Of Mind - ESP [Blackout Music NL] [35] Prolix - Everything [Bassrush] [36] Burr Oak - Reaper [Eatbrain] [37] Task Horizon, Tenkei - Hurt [Evolution Chamber] [38] Sinister Souls, MathizM - Momentum [PRSPCT] [39] NOISECREW - Destroyer [Drumatch] [40] Ripple - Balada [Ripple LTD] [41] Smote - Stride [Soul Trader] [42] Anwius - Trust [Suspended Sounds]

Cada Dia Um Coladera... mixed by DJ Peejay C May 2022 Coladera (Koladera), a traditional music genre from the islands of Cape Verde.

In this podcast I interview UTA head softball coach, Peejay Brun.  She discusses her playing career, her coaching career and the 2022 Mavericks.  I hope you find it interesting and informative.  And I hope you considering subscribing to the podcast and sharing it with a friend.  As always, she you at the ballpark and go Cajuns.  #NCAAsoftball  #gocajuns #collegesoftball     #SBCsoftball     #UniversityofLouisianaSoftball #Louisianasoftball     #SunbeltConferencesoftball #UTAsoftball #peejaybrun #UTAmaverickssoftball --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/roarman/support

BusanKevin and Batmankai catch up with PeeJay in America. Peejay talks about blasting virtual in Airports in Japan and the States as well as playing in California and Pennsylvania. Batmankai and Kevin talk about how hard it is to play when you're not allowed to leave your house! Join the Munzee Maniacs Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/259251405864305 Email: munzeemaniacs@gmail.com Pee Jay: https://www.instagram.com/kansai_pee_jay/ Kevin: http://twitter.com/madformaple http://www.instagram.com/shizenwildlife

The Mark Moses Show is joined by PeeJay Jack of Airborne QB Training and Elite11 Academy to get his thoughts on the current state of football here in Brevard County, his career and who he thinks is going to the win the Super Bowl this Sunday between Cincinnati and Los Angeles.  Listen to The Mark Moses Show weekday afternoons from 3-6 pm on Sports Radio 1560 The Fan & Sportsradio1560.com Follow him on social media @markmosesshow

In this episode of the podcast, Kevin (BusanKevin) and PeeJay (deejay) catch up with returning guest Carson. Last May he was on the cusp of 6 million points and now he's close to 16 million. How did he do it? A great conversation about playing smart and traveling a lot! Carson's YouTube channel (Munzee tips & Tricks): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKG9dKYC-PZWLOlAoPiBqxA Join the Munzee Maniacs Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/259251405864305 Email: munzeemaniacs@gmail.com Pee Jay: https://www.instagram.com/kansai_pee_jay/ Kevin: http://twitter.com/madformaple http://www.instagram.com/jlandkev

In this episode, BusanKevin and PeeJay chat with BatmanKai and talk about him joining the Millionaires Club. There's a lot of hard work for an 11 year old to reach this status! They also talk about Munzee in December and other things. Join the Munzee Maniacs Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/259251405864305 Email: munzeemaniacs@gmail.com Pee Jay: https://www.instagram.com/kansai_pee_jay/ Kevin: http://twitter.com/madformaple http://www.instagram.com/jlandkev

Peejay "Che Spettacolo"

It's Halloween weekend and Kevin and PeeJay share some “spooky” Halloween stories. Some other stories from iBikeforM and Kingofkingz! Remember to deploy at this Halloween weekend events and support the Akashi, Japan event on November 3rd! Join the Munzee Maniacs Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/259251405864305 Email: munzeemaniacs@gmail.com Pee Jay: https://www.instagram.com/kansai_pee_jay/ Kevin: http://twitter.com/madformaple http://www.instagram.com/shizenwildlife

Have you always wanted to go on a Hawaiin Disney Vacation? Well this episode of Just Some Magic will take you all the way to Aulani, a Disney resort. Our guest Peejay has amazing plans for his dream ride featuring Baymax and SanFransokyo in the Japan pavilion at Epcot Also you'll find out why you shouldn't take Peejay Disney shopping with you and learn why the Sanderson sisters are so important to him And after his story Peejay shares different tips or tricks if you wanted to go to Aulani If you have a story you'd like to be read on the show CLICK HERE to submit your most magical moment! FOLLOW PEEJAY: INSTAGRAM TIKTOK TWITCH PeeJay's Past Episode FOLLOW HOST MORGAN: INSTAGRAM AMAZON Shop WEBSITE FOLLOW JUST SOME MAGIC: INSTAGRAM YOUTUBE FACEBOOK --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/justsomemagic/support

From the July 28th Facebook Live mixshow by DJ Peejay

In this episode, Kevin (BusanKevin) and PeeJay chat with Tom (ibike4m) about Munzee play in the San Francisco - Bay Area, badges and Clan Wars. We talk about how he got started in the game and how his gameplay has evolved over the years. Join the Munzee Maniacs Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/259251405864305 Email: munzeemaniacs@gmail.com Pee Jay: https://www.instagram.com/kansai_pee_jay/ Kevin: http://twitter.com/madformaple

Mario, Eddie, & Jon welcome guests Peejay the paradox nerd and Will Foxification to discuss the latest in XM Studios, Prime 1, & JND Studios, and also discuss pit too 5 statues we'd like to see at this years Sideshow Con/ SDCC

In this episode of the podcast, PeeJay (peejay) and Kevin (BusanKevin) are joined by Sarah (kobeses) to talk about loads of stuff. 10th Birthday Mailboxes, Clan Wars, and a lot more get discussed in this Munzee chat! Join the Munzee Maniacs Facebook Group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/259251405864305 Email: munzeemaniacs@gmail.com Pee Jay: https://www.instagram.com/kansai_pee_jay/ Kevin: http://twitter.com/madformaple

Another fine mix by DJ Peejay C. May-2021 Amapiano (Zulu for "the pianos") is a style of House music that emerged in South Africa in 2012. Amapiano is a hybrid of Deep House, Jazz, and lounge music characterized by synths, airy pads, and wide and percussive basslines. It is distinguished by high-pitched piano melodies, Kwaito basslines, low tempo 90s South African House rhythms and percussions from another local subgenre of House known as Bacardi.

The Hiplife vibes volume 2 is here... it's all about those vibes! Another "This Is Africa" mix brought to you by DJ Peejay C May-2021

In this episode, PeeJay and Lael talk everything about Star Wars and Hot Toys Star Wars collecting especially the newly announced Hot Toys Ahsoka pre order!  Hold on to your MidiChlorians and enjoy the HyperSpace Jump!

Helllooooo!! Enjoy me talking about my weird habits. Disclaimer: I do not have OCD, they’re just habits I can’t shake. Please don’t claim you have a disorder that’s never been diagnosed!! I’m sorry I talk about my mans so much, listen to his music though! :) — Remember to stream Peejay!  https://open.spotify.com/artist/6Gybe5yGMo3gxGKJWMi1SV https://music.apple.com/us/artist/peejay/1471903009 --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/planet_elly/support

In this episode, Lael and PeeJay talk about what we want Hot Toys figures we want to be announced or released on May the 4th and also we talk about if Anakin was really the chosen one.  Definitely check out the episode because it was a fun one!

On episode 2 of In-N-Outs of Collecting, Mario & Eddie discuss the latest hot toys, statue, and Disney legacy lightsaber releases, along with statue collecting for beginners discussion with special guests Peejay from Paradox Nerd youtube channel and Lord Vader Thor himself from DCX Open Mic youtube channel

It's all about vibes, those African vibes. Another "This Is Africa" mix brought to you by DJ Peejay C

Do you remember what the parks were like before everything shut down? Its been a long time and difficult to remember. Well right before everything shut down our guest, PeeJay, moved from Hawaii to Anaheim and traveled to WDW on a friends trip. He shares his multiple magical moments that happened throughout the trip. WE ARE LOOKING FOR MAGICAL MOMENTS. If you have a magical moment, please submit it here! https://www.justsomemagic.com/share-your-magic https://www.justsomemagic.com/share-your-magic https://www.justsomemagic.com https://www.instagram.com/justsomemagic/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwnaYiMbbaVfrrq41vgaWQw?view_as=subscriber https://www.facebook.com/JustSomeMagic/ FOLLOW PEEJAY: https://www.instagram.com/sweetlifeofpeejay/ https://www.tiktok.com/@sweetlifeofpeejay? https://www.twitch.tv/sweetlifeofpeejay https://www.youtube.com/user/peejaydez https://twitter.com/sweetlifeofpj FOLLOW THE HOST MORGAN: https://www.instagram.com/morganstark__/ https://www.amazon.com/shop/morganstark__ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/justsomemagic/support

Zack, Dean, Manny, Pete, Dylan, Mario, Optical20, and Peejay the Paradox Nerd get together for the third annual Collecting Weekly Figure of the Year Awards!

What's up! I brought my friend Erren back with another random segment. Here we talked about how we lost friendships in high school and I shared what happened after high school. Hope you enjoy listening. The ending audio got cut off, it sounds dumb, sorry! Oh yeah, and Peejay randomly enters the chat towards the end! (He's my mans now) Listen/stream to Peejay!!! https://open.spotify.com/artist/6Gybe5yGMo3gxGKJWMi1SV https://music.apple.com/us/artist/peejay/1471903009 --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/planet_elly/support

Hellos!! RIP to Chadwick Boseman; epitome of representation in my eyes.

*excuse the bad audio for the intro* but HELLLOOOOO!! I AM BACK! Lots has happened over the past couple months, but I'm back. For once I'm not talking to myself!! Yay!! This episode Peejay n I just talk about more random, stupid people we encountered. I was so awkward because I am so used to talking to myself.. it's so weird having another person on my podcast HAHA!! I hope you find it as funny as I did!! Stream Peejay!! https://open.spotify.com/artist/6Gybe5yGMo3gxGKJWMi1SV https://music.apple.com/us/artist/peejay/1471903009 --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/planet_elly/support

Enjoy! www.kmusiceveryday.com www.instagram.com/kmusiceveryday www.twitter.com/kmusiceveryday KMEM 177 Tracklist: 1. Tabber - Honey! feat. DEAN [00:00] 2. Woo - Chik Chik Pok Pok Freestyle feat. Jvcki Wai, Simo [03:30] 3. Tabber, DEAN, Kim Ximya - 3AM Freestyle [06:27] 4. Zene the Zilla - ITX feat. Changmo (Prod. SLO)[10:07] 5. Paul Blanco - Believe feat. Crush [13:19] 6. Oceanfromtheblue - Ice Bucket Challenge feat. Yuzion [16:23] 7. Kudi - Crew [19:34] 8. June - Beautiful feat. Gaho, Moti, Jung Jin Woo [23:45] 9. Twlv - Today feat. Meloh [27:12] 10. FR:EDEN - home from work [29:45] 11. THAMA - Wait [32:26] 12. Nafla - 115 feat. pH-1 (Prod. PEEJAY) [35:24] 13. Xavii - PLAY feat. 수연이 [39:28] 14. dress - Gossip feat. Kid Milli, Han Yo Han [42:16] 15. GiiANA, B JYUN - DOWN [46:00] 16. Black Doe - Air feat. Chaanill, YELLA [49:55] 17. Nieah - Good Trip [53:35] 18. SAAY - I'm Okay [57:18]

Enjoy this mix recorded live dedicated to Africa in celebration of Africa day

Zack and Dean are joined by PeeJay the Paradox Nerd to catch up on the best news from ToyFair and much more!

Episode 6 of a series of mixshows by DJ Peejay C. on CrioloRadio streaming live worldwide. A journey through the world of Kizomba, Ghetto Zouk, Cabo, Tarraxinha, Semba, Coladeira, Kompa, Zouk and other African music genres in a 1 hour mix. Download the CrioloRadio app from your app store. Don't forget to follow me on Facebook | Instagram | Soundcloud | Audiomack

Indulge yourself and let your feet move you, whether you are on the dancefloor, at home or at work, with this Kompa mix by DJ Peejay C

A little taste of Bachata mix by DJ Peejay C.

The Kizomba Affair Mixshow by DJ Peejay C. recorded on Facebook Live on December 2nd, 2018.

Episode 1 of a series of mixshows by DJ Peejay C. on CrioloRadio streaming live worldwide. A journey through the world of Kizomba, Ghetto Zouk, Cabo, Tarraxinha, Semba, Coladeira, Kompa, Zouk and other African music genres in a 1 hour mix. Download the CrioloRadio app from your app store. Don't forget to follow me on Facebook | Instagram | Soundcloud | Audiomack

Episode 2 of a series of mixshows by DJ Peejay C. on CrioloRadio streaming live worldwide. A journey through the world of Kizomba, Ghetto Zouk, Cabo, Tarraxinha, Semba, Coladeira, Kompa, Zouk and other African music genres in a 1 hour mix. Download the CrioloRadio app from your app store. Don't forget to follow me on Facebook | Instagram | Soundcloud | Audiomack

Episode 3 of a series of mixshows by DJ Peejay C. on CrioloRadio streaming live worldwide. A journey through the world of Kizomba, Ghetto Zouk, Cabo, Tarraxinha, Semba, Coladeira, Kompa, Zouk and other African music genres in a 1 hour mix. Download the CrioloRadio app from your app store. Don't forget to follow me on Facebook | Instagram | Soundcloud | Audiomack

Episode 4 of a series of mixshows by DJ Peejay C. on CrioloRadio streaming live worldwide. A journey through the world of Kizomba, Ghetto Zouk, Cabo, Tarraxinha, Semba, Coladeira, Kompa, Zouk and other African music genres in a 1 hour mix. Download the CrioloRadio app from your app store. Don't forget to follow me on Facebook | Instagram | Soundcloud | Audiomack

Episode 5 of a series of mixshows by DJ Peejay C. on CrioloRadio streaming live worldwide. A journey through the world of Kizomba, Ghetto Zouk, Cabo, Tarraxinha, Semba, Coladeira, Kompa, Zouk and other African music genres in a 1 hour mix. Download the CrioloRadio app from your app store. Don't forget to follow me on Facebook | Instagram | Soundcloud | Audiomack

Peejay Catacutan talks about his journey from nursing to making comics. He breaks down the process of learning different aspects of comics from coloring all the way to penciling and inking. After that, he learned how to letter as well.  HELP US MAKE THIS PODCAST HERE! https://www.patreon.com/dreamercomicspodcast Sign Up for Emails HERE http://dreamercomicspodcast.com/ Youtube Highlights Channel https://www.youtube.com/dreamercomicshighlights Youtube Full Episodes https://www.youtube.com/c/DreamerComicsPodcast

What does it take to get a university job in Japan? This week we chat with university instructor PeeJay. He talks about the qualifications you need to work in Japanese universities and how to find work. Get ready, episode 200 is coming soon! Podcast page: http://justjapanstuff.com Twitter: @madformaple Facebook: http://facebook.com/justjapanstuff

This week on the Just Japan Podcast we have a special treat. You get to listen to two chats Kevin had with regular guest PeeJay from 10 years ago! These chats are from their old collaborative YouTube channel, Two Beers in Asia. Next week, Kevin will be back with a regular and up-to-date interview! Podcast page: http://justjapanstuff.com Twitter: @madformaple Facebook: http://facebook.com/justjapanstuff

In episode 3 we chat with Peejay Deluca. Pj is Kayak Anglers of North East Ohio’s tournament director. We discuss the first season’s event schedule and the happenings of Kayak Angler’s newest chapter. The post Episode 03: A chat with a KA NEO’s TD Peejay Deluca appeared first on Hooked on Wild Waters.

Airman 1st Class Peejay Jack, a 290th Joint Communications Support Squadron vehicle maintainer with the Florida Air National Guard, was awarded the Airman’s Medal by Maj. Gen. Lenny Richoux, the Joint Enabling Capabilities Command commander, during a ceremony at MacDill AFB Feb. 9.

KMEWM 035 Tracklist: 1. Jang Jane Giant Pink & PERCNT - Dumb Dumb 2. Ovan - 그 영화의 주인공 (Clicher) (Feat. 잔나비) 3. Jay Moon, Xq, QUAIMO - Romance 4. Sinstealer - I Like 5. Jinbo - A.P.T. feat. Nahzam Sue 6. P.O. (Block B) - MEN'z NIGHT feat. Chancellor 7. Whoosh - Push n Pull feat. Khundi Panda, Lym en, Ash-B 8. Privacy - Take Care feat. D.Sanguh, SABO 9. Muzie - What Is Say? feat Hanhae, Seungun Hwang 10. Junny - TRILLA feat. Yelloasis 11. Okasian - Tideishigh 12. Los - Bad feat. Jay Park, G.Soul 13. Vovy McFly - Awkward ft Zoorumpug 14. Sahogany - Punkytiger 15. Asol, Zizo - Mic Swagger 16. Child Diahn, Odd Exer , Snaggle Owky - Primary 17. Futuristic Swaver x Icey Blouie - Conan 18. Cycadelic Records (Killagramz, m00n, Los, Lako, Absint, Rick Bridges - Cycadelic Psycho 19. Glam Gould - Dooroogo feat. CIFIKA 20. Dopein - Dreamdrop 21. Child Diahn - No Make Up (Jazz Version) 22. Meok - Sigh 23. offonoff - gold feat. Dean 24. Synda Sizung - TTL feat. Y1ee 25. Anda - It's Goin' Down feat. The Quiett 26. Sik-K - h1ghr gang feat. pH-1, Jay Park 27. Jazzyfact - Young Knight 28. Peejay x Crush - Stranger 29. IU - Shoes

(화) 최파타 - 나이스 초이의 파워블로거 + 한낮의 버라이어티 쇼 31 + 추석특집 초대석 (PEEJAY, 자이언티)

KME 032 Tracklist: 1. Sik-K - Get That Money 2. Villain - Fairy feat. Jung Jin Woo 3. EXO - Sweet Lies 4. Lee Gikwang - What You Like 5. DEAN - Run the Streets 6. Jeon Jiyoon - Hello feat. Kisum 7. Peejay x Beenzino - I Get lifted 8. too fake. - 쟌넨 93umsongaji 9. Yayyoung Kim - 우주를 줄께 (old school version) 10. Lee Bada - 너는나 나는너(leebada ver.) 11. Twice - Someone Like Me 12. Hyukoh - Comes and Goes 13. Tierpark - 여기가 아닌 어딘가에 14. Chicken - 외계인 15. 들고양이양 - circuit_ 16. CIFIKA - Ooh Ah Ooh feat. DUVV, Jayvito 17. A T O M I C - Dive 18 . Jay Park x Double K x Boi B - Reborn 19. Loco - A.O.M.G. 20. Bryan Chase - Pay Me feat. KZN, B-Free 21. B Jyun - Fuck That Magazine 22. cinderella 99 - Pack 23. Lako - R Cali Freestyle 24. Absint - Maltwo feat. Killagramz 25. Bewhy - 9ucci Bank feat. Dok2 26. Kramp - Popeyes feat. Lil Kpop, Ockhorang 27. YunB - Runaway, Pt. 2 feat. Ugly Duck 28. S.O.D. - 22 (Jay Greenn, Inho The Coolguy)

Here's the first podcast of the year! New music from Hydro, Signal, SCAR, Tom SMall, Nymfo and many more. Plus, we've got a bit of special news to explain where we've been hiding since Christmas! As always, thanks to you guys for being so supportive, we massively appreciate it! Cheers Andy & James Tracklist 1. Metro - Grid [Ortem] 2. Hidden Aspect - Dead Cat Bounce 3. Hydro & Kolectiv - Mistrust [Horizons Music] 4. Vilem & Mcleod - Strange You [C.I.A] 5. Cirrus - Diacria (Fearful remix) [Terra Null] 6. Fuj & Dauntless - Deadweight [Skutta Recordings] 7. Homemade Weapons - Mind Control [Weaponry] 8. Amoss - Astrodome [Horizons Music] 9. Milez Benjiman - Inheritance [Tru Thoughts] 10. Flight of the Conchords - Bowie’s In Space 11. Peejay & Panorama - Sanctuary [Authentic Music] 12. Tom Small - Take & Hold [Unsigned] 13. Signal - Ten Paths [Critical] 14. Rufige Kru - Dark Rider (SCAR remix) [Metalheadz] 15. Mikal - At The Controls [Metalheadz] 16. Monster Mash / Beer Review 17. Noisia - Block Control [Moving Shadow] 18. Nymfo - Marching Machines [Dispatch Recordings] 19. Revaux - Solidify [Authentic Music] 20. ED:IT & Penny Giles - Set Theory (Ulterior Motive Remix) (C.I.A.) 21. Response - I Do Not Want Go Outside [Commercial Suicide] 22. Perverse - Heavy Built [Unsigned] 23. Hannover - Metropolis [Terrabyte] 24. Ilk & Etch - My Soul [Halogen Music]

01. Felix K - Scapes Part 2 02. Hysee - Plasmigration 03. Meanone - Planet MK31 04. Peejay & Panorama ft. Brooklyn - April (Hemoglobin Remix) 05. Faib - Angels Lullaby 06. Thing - Insidious 07. Synkro - Look At Yourself (DjRUM Remix) 08. Koto - Endgame 09. ASC & Synkro - Planet X 10. CMX ft. dBridge - Tesserae 11. Koto - Emersion 12. ASC - Distance Between Us 13. Jessy Lanza - 5785021