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In this recap, Lesley and Brad reflect on their powerful conversation with Amber Fuhriman—attorney, NLP trainer, and host of Break Your Bullshit Box. Together they unpack how perfectionism and people-pleasing keep high achievers trapped in fear, and how authenticity, though uncomfortable, is freeing. This episode challenges listeners to take responsibility for their choices and trust that staying authentic is better than constantly seeking approval.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:Why people-pleasing is a hidden form of control, not kindness.How perfectionism hides behind fear and the need for validation.What authentic affirmations sound like without toxic positivity.Why creating an “SOS list” can help you act instead of overthink.How taking responsibility for choices leads to personal freedom.Episode References/Links:Cambodia Retreat Waitlist - https://crowsnestretreats.comOPC Winter Tour - https://opc.me/eventsPilates Journal Expo - https://xxll.co/pilatesjournalAgency Mini - https://prfit.biz/miniContrology Pilates Conference in Poland - https://xxll.co/polandtContrology Pilates Conference in Brussels - https://xxll.co/brusselseLevate - https://lesleylogan.co/elevateeLevate Waitlist - https://lesleylogan.co/elevatewaitlistSubmit your wins or questions - https://beitpod.com/questionsTiny Habits by BJ Fogg - https://a.co/d/fNNWEahAmber Fuhriman's Website: https://www.successdevelopmentsolutions.com90 Day Success Jumpstart Training - https://jumpstart.successdevelopmentsolutions.comBreak Your Bullshit Box Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/morethancorporate If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Speaker 1 0:00  She advocates for affirmations that acknowledge the gap between who I think I am now and who I need to be in order to accomplish this. You know, I want to be this type of person. I will become this type of person, right? I am becoming this type of person.Lesley Logan 0:14  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. Lesley Logan 0:57  Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the candid convo I had with Amber Fuhriman on our last episode. If you haven't listened to that one, you are going to need to listen to that one, because I'm stumbling over my words today. Brad Crowell 1:12  It's a great episode. It's a lot of fun.Lesley Logan 1:14  It's so good, it's so fun. And it was nice as local. And I really like being on her podcast, so you're gonna want to listen to it whether you listen to it first or last, I mean, there's, it's really okay, I think, in life to hear the ending and then watch the show. Sometimes I do that with real life TV, because I just want to know if I'm like, falling like, if I'm like, rooting for a villain or not. I just want to know. I gotta, I gotta have that information now.Brad Crowell 1:35  Yeah, she's not lying. She literally does this. Lesley Logan 1:38  Hey, you know what? Brad Crowell 1:39  Tell me. Lesley Logan 1:39  Bands would like drop just like a single song, but you'd go buy the whole album without listening to it. So you, in fact, knew there's one song I'm gonna love on this. Speaker 1 1:50  I think there's a difference between the teaser of something and the ending conclusion. Lesley Logan 1:55  These are not teasers. The recap episode is teasers. We are taking a talking point each, right? And of the many talking points that they had, so it's like two things.Speaker 1 2:06  I don't know what that has to do with going and watching the end of a TV show before you start the TV show. That's the conclusion versus a teaser. Lesley Logan 2:12  It's a sample, sampling. Brad Crowell 2:14  Okay. Lesley Logan 2:14  Sampling a part. Brad Crowell 2:16  It just happens to be the ending sample. Lesley Logan 2:18  Okay. Well, today is October 30th and we decided we want to talk about tomorrow, because tomorrow is Halloween. And I don't know about you, but I grew up. First of all, I went to some churches where Halloween was, like, just the evilest thing you couldn't even go trick or treating. Did you ever go to a church like that, like, where, like, they didn't even? Brad Crowell 2:35  No. Lesley Logan 2:35  Okay. Your church has always trick or treated? Brad Crowell 2:37  Yes. Lesley Logan 2:38  Okay. So I did not experience that all of my childhood. But then some churches, we could totally trick or treat, and then there were some churches where you could trick or treat, but like people, like whispered, you know. Brad Crowell 2:49  They whispered about trick or treating? Lesley Logan 2:51  At any rate, what no one talks about is how this holiday had nothing to do with the churches, and it wasn't even the Halloween. It was about something else. And we decided to tell you about the true history of Halloween. So.Speaker 1 3:03  Yeah, it's, it's actually like cultural warfare is, if you, if you want to look at it. Lesley Logan 3:08  I know, like, it's like an appropriation. Brad Crowell 3:10  Yeah. Well, they, yes, they appropriated the time and they renamed it. So we'll talk about that. Lesley Logan 3:16  Okay, many, many holidays were done this way. So Halloween originated from the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain, right. Brad Crowell 3:24  Samhain. Lesley Logan 3:25  No no. In the thing we looked up, it literally said to how to say it pronounced saa · wn. So Samhain is pronounced saa · wn spelled Samhain, but it's you say it saa · wn, let me go back to my sheet. Okay. A three day celebration held over 2000 years ago that marked the end of the harvest season and the beginning of the dark, cold winter. Are you gonna just.Brad Crowell 3:52  Sorry, just taking over right there. All right, keep going. Lesley Logan 3:55  Okay. Thank you so much. Okay, so the Celts believed that this was a time when the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead blurred, allowing spirits to roam the earth. To ward off harmful spirits and guide benevolent ones, they lit bonfires, wore costumes and left offerings and food outside their homes. Pause, just so you know, also in October in Cambodia, they do something called Pchum Ben and Pchum Ben, Pchum Ben, it is a almost month long celebration in parts of the country, but for sure, a three day celebration where everyone, no one works, including in the tourist city of Siem Reap we're only going to find expats working. You're not going to find a single Cambodian working. And they they don't get dressed up, but they celebrate and they do all these things so like that is awesome.Speaker 1 4:42  Pchum Ben is a Buddhist holiday that is celebrated every year where they believe that the souls of their ancestors are released for 15 days so that they can basically stay with family. Lesley Logan 4:53  Yeah, it's really cool. People like will travel on a moto for 11 hours to go with family. It's freaking crazy. But I just want to say, like, how cool, like, even across the world, the same, similar thing was happening. So to ward off harmful spirits and guide benevolent ones, they, oh, I already said that part, sorry. Speaker 1 5:09  They lit bonfires, wore costumes and left offerings, which is actually like it trickles down over the, you know, millennia. And the ancient custom, those ancient customs, kind of evolved into what are now, trick or treating, the costumes, decorations and parties celebrated for modern Halloween. I mean, we don't light bonfires and, you know that kind of a thing (inaudible).Lesley Logan 5:30  No because if you did, people are gonna think that you're a witch. But you can actually just say, no, I'm celebrating. How do you say it? Samhain, I'm celebrating Samhain Okay, so the oh, one more thing on this, the Roman and Christian influence. After the Romans conquered the Celtic lands, Roman festivals like Feralia and Pomona were incorporated into Samhain traditions. Later, the Catholic Church established All Saints Day on November 1st and All Souls Day on November 2nd, making October 31st All Hallows Eves, which means hallowed or holy, right? So they just.Brad Crowell 6:05  Which then become Halloween. Yup.Lesley Logan 6:08  .Yeah, So they just stole it. Brad Crowell 6:10  Yeah. Just just renaming things over here. Lesley Logan 6:12  So if you don't like that I'm harping on the church, you know it, sometimes we have to accept the responsibility of people from our past. Every fucking group of people has done something wrong, but it's more important to be like, educated and understand. And if you love Halloween, I love that for you. I decided to get into Halloween-ish, this year I got witchy nails, which are not done for this recording, but just check out my Instagram. They're witchy nails for me anyways. And when I because I just, like, remember, when I was why does everybody like, this holiday, but now that I, like, know the history of it and what it was for, I actually can get down with it.Speaker 1 6:50  It also marks like, it's actually the end of a season, going into the next season. So it was the end of harvest. So imagine, yeah, imagine, imagine you just spent all season, like, you know, really digging in on the harvest, and now it's time to party, and there's a new season coming. So I feel like it all kind of goes together. Lesley Logan 7:11  And also, like, I mean, just imagine a couple thousand years ago, like, life was so hard. And I also (inaudible), the more you look at the celebrations that they had, it really was like taking a pause of the hard work of life, and doing some sort of way to celebrate that. And we don't do that around here. We just, like, keep working through all the things. And like, at least in the States, maybe you take off a couple days for the actual holidays. And so I just, I feel like this is a holiday that has a lot more history to it. And and I, and I kind of like, what that history is. It seems really beautiful. And what a great way to spend time with family and past loved ones. And also, like, let's not forget, you know, in Mexico, they do Día de Muertos, which is on November 1st, right? Like, the big celebration of the like, there's a lot of different cultures that celebrate the people that have come before them and spend time together. And there's all this stuff. So anyways, just think about that. Think about the loved ones you had, and celebrate the harvesting you did, and report back. Okay.Speaker 1 8:09  Yeah, Lesley and I've been back from Cambodia and Singapore now for a week and a half. And it's just always so refreshing for us to get back to our second family over there. You know, people that we love, the places that we love to be in. The environment over there is just it's so magical. And we would love to have you join us next year, but get on the waitlist, because there's limited amount of spots. We're going to be going in October of next year, but we're going to be announcing all of that in January. So go to crowsnestretreats.com to get on the waitlist for information about the upcoming trip for 2026 we're only going one time next year, only going one time next year. We're only going one one time next year. Lesley Logan 8:50  Are you trying to convince yourself or everyone else? Brad Crowell 8:53  I'm letting everybody know, because a lot of people have said, oh, I'll come with you in the spring, and we're not going in the spring. We are only going in the fall next year, so, side note. Lesley Logan 9:04  And probably the year after that, I just have to say it to you. Brad Crowell 9:06  October 1st, we already rolled out our tour go to opc.me/events to join us for the OPC winter tour. We're gonna be driving all around the United States of America. We're gonna be going from Vegas all the way up to Boston, down to Miami and back. It's gonna be something like 24, 25 locations. It's kind of insane. We're very excited about it. We are going to be even bigger.Lesley Logan 9:28  We're going to studios we've not been to and have been excited. They've been on the list for a while. These are human beings that, like, we have literally been like, how do we make sure we get to see them again?Speaker 1 9:39  But you can find out all the specifics where we're stopping. Go to opc.me/events, chances are high that some locations may already be sold out. Lesley Logan 9:47  Yeah it's been out for a month. Brad Crowell 9:48  Because it's been out for a month. So but go check it out opc.me/tour. Then in January, where are you teaching?Lesley Logan 9:55  We'll be at the Pilates Journal, their first ever event in the U.S. It will be at Huntington Beach. If you go to xxll.co/pilatesjournal, you can get your tickets Brad Crowell 10:03  Pilates Journal Expo. Lesley Logan 10:05  Yeah. So Pilates Journal is a Pilates Journal. It's a magazine, and they.Brad Crowell 10:10  It's free, by the way. Lesley Logan 10:11  Is it? Brad Crowell 10:11  Yeah. The journal they release is free. Lesley Logan 10:14  Oh, I love that. I mean, I always just assumed, I just was given it for free. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Pilates Journal, but I just, I don't know. I just thought maybe they just (inaudible).Brad Crowell 10:23  I'm like 90% sure. Lesley Logan 10:25  But they, they do a really, they do events in Australia and. Brad Crowell 10:28  Yeah, subscribe for free. Lesley Logan 10:29  You can subscribe for free. I've written for articles for them several times. I think it's really worth looking into. But if you're a Pilates teacher, you should come. The lineup is amazing. Several of these teachers have taught. We've all taught together somewhere, but never taught all together. So like you're not going to see this line up again, you might as well come and then in February, we're going to host Agency Mini, that is our business coaching program for Pilates instructors and studio owners. And you're going to want to go to prfit,biz/mini. So it's profit without the O dot B-I-Z slash mini, to get on the waitlist. Also probably in January-ish, they'll be letting the waitlist people get the best discount. So I'm just saying. In March, we're going to two places in Europe. We'll be in Poland, at the Pilates Poland Controlology Pilates Conference. So go to xxll.co/poland by the way, I'm doing that with Karen Frischmann. And so if you like me, and you're gonna like Karen, I'm just gonna tell you right now, she's like, she's extremely smart, extremely knowledgeable. And like, I I feel, I feel like, like, you know how there's like the pop band, and then there's like the, like, uber rock, like, just has done, been doing music for decades, and like, they're just like, that's what it is. And so you, if you don't know Karen, I promise you're gonna love Karen. And if you know Karen, then what are you waiting for? The two of us will be together so we can, like, knock it out in one weekend, or go into Brussels, xxll.co/brussels. We'll be at El's studio there in Brussels, and we're very excited about it, different workshops at each event. So, but same teacher. So you're as long as long as you love Karen and I, or one of us, you're gonna have a great lineup. Just pick the one that works the best for you, and then we will, Brad is gonna take me on a second honeymoon, and then we are going to land and arrive at P.O.T in London. And I don't have a link for you, but you could just Google P.O.T., Balanced Bodies P.O.T. London, It will come up. They have amazing SEO. They're really good at what they do. And you can snag your spot. It is limited, and it sells out every year. So there you go. Before we get into this amazing interview with Amber, what is our question this week?Speaker 1 12:29  @marystarpilates asks, hey, Lesley, do you still do your continued education teacher training program? Where can I find information on that? Thank you so much. So I'm assuming she's talking about eLevate. Lesley Logan 12:41  Yes, I did clarify. And the answer is yes, she's talking about my mentorship program for Pilates instructors. So you have to have, you have to have done a comprehensive program in that, like, you should have been trained on the mat, Reformer, Cadillac or Tower and Chair, right? The Wunda Chair. Of course, I'd love it if you (inaudible) on the barrels. But like, I'm not worried about you being overwhelmed by the fifth weekend, but you need and then you have to have access to a mat, a Reformer, a Tower, Cadillac, a Chair and a Barrel. So you don't have to have a full studio access. It doesn't have to be classical. In fact, I work with both classically trained and contemporary trained people who are classic, classically curious, classical people who feel like they were like, taught this, like, rigid, you know, culty perfect way of doing Pilates, and they would like to have a little bit more fun. And we just really break down and ditch perfection and get really excited about what Joe gave us and what the intentions were, and free you from thinking you need to have a million fucking cues all the time. And also really help you with your own personal practice. Help you with seeing, help you with patience in your teaching. And so if you go to lesleylogan.co/elevate, you can learn more about it if you do the same exact URL, but add waitlist to it. So lesleylogan.co/elevatewaitlist, you can get on the waitlist for the next one, because this upcoming what year are we in right now? So 2026, is next year is sold out. Sold out. You can reach out to us. You never know what might happen. But 2027 is where we're already we're actually already taking people, taking applications, selling spots. The reality is mentorship programs like this. I have friends who have one who are five years booked in the future. I'm not going out that far. I'm kind of a year in advance kind of person, but if you know you want it then you can plan ahead. So that's what I would say. Speaker 1 14:24  Yeah, awesome. Well, stick around. We'll be, oh, actually. Lesley Logan 14:28  Go to beitpod you want to send us questions. Brad Crowell 14:30  Yeah, you have to join us for all these questions. Your participation is required, or we don't get to ask answer your questions. So 310-905-5534, hit us up or.Lesley Logan 14:39  And I want some fun questions. I want, I want relationship questions. I want family questions. I want career questions. I want some (inaudible) questions. Brad Crowell 14:50  She wants some juicy questions.Lesley Logan 14:51  I want, I want, I want. I also want the gossip that comes with the questions. You could be anonymous. Speaker 1 14:58  Go to beitpod.com/questions, where you can leave a win or a question. Thank you for that. Stick around. We'll be right back. We're going to talk about Amber Fuhrman. Amber Fuhriman is a recovering perfectionist and people pleaser and an attorney who now works as a coach, human behavior expert and podcaster. As a certified trainer of neuro linguistic programming or NLP, and host of the More Than Corporate Podcast. She blends her legal background with mindset and performance coaching to help high achievers push past limiting beliefs and perfectionism. And after years of believing success was about money and titles, Amber has redefined it as freedom choice and building a life that truly feels fulfilling. A lot of relation like a relatability here with her story and just.Lesley Logan 15:43  I know, another guest where it's like, oh, we're, like, just on the same we're on the same longitude, you know, just a different latitude. Like, she's doing something very similar, like it's, we're on the same longitude, but a different latitude, you know, like, like, Joe Allen was doing similar things with the orthodontist. And we do what we do for Pilates instructors and studio owners, and she does what she does for like, other professional it's just very cool. But also I love how our lives can bring a different lens to it, a different focus to what we do. And we I really appreciate her willingness and interest in like, we talk about people pleasing, and we talk about a bunch of stuff, but I just really got excited about talking about people pleasing because, like, how many of our listeners, how many people do we know that are doing things that are people pleasing? Brad Crowell 16:26  Well, I thought her definition of it was, she said, people pleasing is when you consider other people's feelings before you consider your own. And I thought that was interesting, especially because, you know, and then y'all talked about how.Lesley Logan 16:47  Yeah, we talked about see, so, like, I also think that some people pleasers are it's just another form of control. By the way, you can also be you're controlling people's emotions as well, or the outcome of people's emotions. But we, she clarified that not people pleasing doesn't mean being an asshole. Just for the purpose of being an asshole, like it's about instead about being authentic and speaking your truth. So meaning, like a lot of people will go to dinner with a family member on Thursday to people please, rather than which is not authentic, by the way, because you don't want to be there. You're gonna be somewhere else. So you're actually that's kind of, I think you're more of an asshole if you're people pleasing because you're not being authentic. I think that's we should re define people pleasing as being an asshole, a non-authentic person.Brad Crowell 17:28  Not authentic person. Lesley Logan 17:30  Yeah. So she advised, like, what you can do when you're not people pleasing is, like, were the actions that I took in alignment with who I want to be as a human So, meaning you decided to not people please. Someone had a reaction that was not something that you liked like all, that they're upset that you're not doing the thing for them. And so like, you get to ask yourself, were the actions that I took in alignment with who I want to be as a human being? If the answer is yes, then I will not apologize when I'm 100% in alignment with my actions. And you can understand that and accept me for I am, or you don't accept me and like, that is really hard for a lot of people, because, like, I'm gonna lose people. You guys were allowed to lose people in our life. We just are, and it's gonna happen. Like, it's impossible. It's impossible to keep everyone happy with you all of the time. There's just not, there's no way that is going to even be a possibility. And so if you are, if you are actually being authentic in alignment with how you feel and you speak that and someone doesn't like it, you are not in the wrong. They are also, by the way, there might not even be in the wrong.Speaker 1 18:29  I mean, look, you could be in the wrong, but if you are doing this to protect yourself or to stop people pleasing, this is when you have to ask yourself these questions. You know, were the actions I took in alignment with who I want to be as a human? If that's the case, then, then you can confidently move forward knowing that you weren't doing it to hurt them. You were doing it to uphold your own values, right? So if you were doing it to hurt them, then don't be an asshole. But if you're doing it to uphold your own values, that that's different.Lesley Logan 19:00  If you were doing it then hurt them. Sorry. You are being an asshole. But I just think that the more we can understand ourselves, the recovering people pleasers that we are, these are gonna be conversations you have to have with yourself. You're going to have to chit chat with yourself about like, okay, but give yourself pep talk. I want to be this person who speaks my heart, who shares how I feel, who's honest with how and will I will spend time with people, and that is going to upset some people who would like me to have more of me or have me at this thing. But I'm not in the wrong. I'm not an asshole. I'm being authentic and like, they will either come around or they won't. Speaker 1 19:35  Yeah, I really liked when she was talking about the like, toxic positivity, like, fake it till you make it. Where she was talking about, she, basically, I just, she was so frustrated about the idea of it, and she, she was like, don't ever put me in a room with people who believe this, because she's gonna lose her shit.Lesley Logan 19:59  Yeah, I want to be in that room. Actually, is that terrible? I like, I would like her to, like, she's such a good person with words. I would love to and she's a lawyer, so she's so good at articulating. Speaker 1 20:11  I mean she talked about, she talked about, you can't lie to yourself and convince you like you can, but there's dissidence that's happening when you're lying yourself in that way. And she said, the brain doesn't like distance between what is being said and what is truly believed. So, you know, she said, instead of doing that, instead of being like, I'm amazing, I'm beautiful in the mirror every morning, kind of a thing, she said, she advocates for affirmations that acknowledge the gap between who I think I am now and who I need to be in order to accomplish this. You know, I want to be this type of person. I will become this type of person, right? I am becoming this type of person, right? That's different than, you know, like.Lesley Logan 20:49  Like people do I am, I am rich. But if you're, like, barely able to pay your bills, like the brain is, that is not helpful. So I am becoming rich.Brad Crowell 20:57  Or I make decisions that are going to make me rich. Lesley Logan 21:00  Yes, I make decisions that are making me rich. I am on my way to abundance. I am, you know? Speaker 1 21:05  Yeah, I like that. And so it's, it's nuanced. It's nuanced here, you know, but I, but I actually appreciated that, and I thought, oh, that's a cool way to to adjust it, because sometimes it does feel fake, and that's annoying, and that's not, that's not. I have a hard time embracing that too, so I get that.Lesley Logan 21:20  Well, because scientifically, like in behavior science, like the brain, doesn't like dissonance, right? So, BJ Fogg, his sister, she was talking about how, you know, one of the habits, BJ likes to get people to start with from reading his book, it's like every day, get out of bed, you put your feet on the floor, like everybody does this. You can literally start a habit. Tomorrow morning, you put your feet on the floor. You say, today is going to be amazing. Or you can say, I'm amazing, but, like, usually he would say, today's me amazing day. And then you stand up and like, you like, so you want and like, it's a great first habits, a great way to start the day. And she, like, talked to us just like, yeah, so my husband died, and on the day of his funeral, I'm not going to put my feet on the floor. I go today is an amazing day. Because the brain isn't like dissonance, and that's gonna screw the habit up, right? Because it's gonna be like, oh, this is not real. So what she said is, today is going to be as good as it can be, right? And that's an honest thing. And so I think where she's.Speaker 1 22:16  And it's an affirmation, you know, like, still, is putting you on like, a path to see the good in the day. Lesley Logan 22:22  Without it being toxic positivity. It's like, it's an and so I actually really appreciated that because we taught we have a lot of people talk about, like, affirmation and mantras. And hers is like, yeah, so have ones that are that are actually helping you be it till you see it, not that are lying to you about what you are. That's not gonna be helpful. She's just super cool. I mean, I listened before I was on her podcast, because I met her in person for the podcast. I listened to several of her episodes, and I was just like, I feel like I'm learning so much. Brad Crowell 22:48  That's cool. Love it.Lesley Logan 22:49  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you don't have to put her on faster speed, just gonna be really honest, you can put it on a regular speed, because I had it on 1.75 I was like, maybe we'll take that down a little bit. It's like listening to me.Speaker 1 23:00  That's hilarious. Well, stick around. We'll be right back. We're gonna dig into those into those Be It Action Items that you have with Amber Fuhriman in just a minute. Brad Crowell 23:10  All right, welcome back. So finally, what Be It Action Items, can we take away from your convo with Amber? Oh, I said that differently this time. For those of you who say it along with me, say it along with me. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Amber Fuhriman? She said, hey, when you are struggling with overthinking or in or you are struggling with intense emotions, this is really cool y'all. She said, create an SOS list, meaning the list of people that you are flashing the SOS sign to, right? And this list is just two or three trusted people who you can reach out to, and they can be your gauge for you, right, that they can help you when you know you're spiraling out, like if, if you know, for example, if you are like an overthinker and you can't put it into action, and you recognize I'm overthinking again. I'm not acting. I need you to actually just get started. You can text your SOS list, you know, but first ask them if that, you know, they're willing to be on it. But you can develop a specific, predetermined SOS phrase, like Amber said, I'm stuck at the airport, right? And for her, being stuck at the airport is like she's prepping, she's prepping, she's prepping, she's prepping, but she's never taken off. She's never taken off. She's always stuck at the airport. So she said, explain what the SOS phrase means to you, and clarify that if you send that message to your people on the SOS list, it really means I need somebody to check in on me right now. So for example, you know, I imagine it may change over time. You know, what does your SOS mean, right? Especially when Amber's partner died, I imagine it was a, you know, a different reason to be reaching out than now where she's, you know, it's been a couple of years, and she's moving on, and she's running a company and things like that. You know. So she said, it really will help you have somebody check in on you. Who, who you trust to understand like, I need help right now. So when you find yourself in those overwhelm moments, send an SOS to your list. And she said the decision to ask for help actually allows your brain to see solutions. Okay, even if they don't get back to you instantaneously, it will put you on a different path to see solutions, particularly helpful for recovering perfectionists who find it really hard to say, I actually need some help right now. So really cool idea. Lesley Logan 25:35  Something has nothing to do with what we're talking about now, right now. But like my brain went to this person, somebody in China, bought a first class ticket to some Chinese airline, which means that you get to eat in the first class lounge before you take off. And because it's a first class ticket, it's like fully refundable and transferable. So for 300 times, 300 meals, this person would check into the airport, check into the first class lounge, eat for free, and then reschedule their ticket. And they did this 300 times before anyone's like, what is this person doing? So talk about being stuck at the airport, and I just thought, is the food that good? Because the actual like going to an airport, getting into a first class lounge is so annoying.Speaker 1 26:27  Even the food at the Centurion lounge, it's good, but I wouldn't say it's great. Lesley Logan 26:31  And also, not all Centurion lounges are created equal. I like ours, but the L.A. one, you can get it together as can you JFK, just saying, Okay, my big, back on track. Brad Crowell 26:41  Yeah, how about you over here? Lesley Logan 26:43  Recognize you have complete control over your daily decisions. You've complete control your daily decisions. I think we like to outsource decisions like I can't do that because x, y and z, but you have complete control over your daily decisions. And if you're unhappy, you have to dig into the decisions you're making to create that situation. Are you saying yes to things you should be saying no to? Are you staying up late the night before so you feel like shit in the morning, right? So understand that avoiding a decision is still a decision. Oh, avoiding a decision is still a decision, and make different choices to change your outcomes. She also said.Speaker 1 27:22  I think that's been the biggest thing that has changed my stress level is that I would avoid making a decision, but in the back of my mind, it was still I knew I had to address this thing, whatever this thing would be. It didn't matter what it was like, I might like just be unwilling to open a text message from somebody because I knew it was going to launch a whole thing. I got to go down this thing and then I would push it off, and then, you know, or it's like email inbox kind of stuff, too, like, avoid it, avoid it until it's like an actual problem. Yeah, and that was one of the biggest changes, was making the decision to stop avoiding things and to just hug a cactus, as it were. But I love that. I think, I think acknowledging that avoiding a decision is actually still a decision that was super helpful for me.Lesley Logan 28:08  And she said, consider her 90 Day Success Jumpstart Training or join her free Break Your Bullshit Box community. So I and that's on Facebook, if you, if you go there, I mean honest on I went on Facebook the other day, and I was like, oh, wow, look at all these people I can unfollow. Thank you for acknowledging yourself, sir and sir and you so anyways. But I just thought this is such a bright, wonderful, honest and maybe a little maybe you feel called out, maybe you feel called out, and maybe you need to, because you got to break your bullshit. You know. And I just think a lot of us the what's getting in the way of being it till we see it is people pleasing and telling ourselves that we don't have control over certain things, some things you do, and we just gotta be honest about that. So, share this with a friend who needs to hear it, especially the people pleasing one, because those people can bother your life too. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. Brad Crowell 28:56  Bye for now.Lesley Logan 28:58  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Speaker 1 29:40  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell. Lesley Logan 29:45  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co. Speaker 1 29:50  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi. Lesley Logan 29:57  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals. Speaker 1 30:00  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time. Transcribed by https://otter.aiSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Wes Craven's 1984 horror classic A Nightmare on Elm Street introduced Freddy Krueger, a dream-stalking slasher who kills teens in their sleep—kills that become real—and was inspired by a chilling true epidemic of Sudden Unexplained Nocturnal Death Syndrome (SUNDS) among Southeast Asian refugees in the late 1970s–80s. A young Cambodian survivor of the Khmer Rouge genocide (1975–79, ~2 million dead) resettled in the U.S., tormented by nightmares of being chased, resisted sleep for days, then died mysteriously in bed with no autopsy findings; the CDC documented over 100 similar cases of healthy young Hmong, Laotian, and Cambodian men dying overnight. Locally explained via folklore—like the Philippine batibat hag or Thai widow ghost suffocating victims—these deaths were later linked to Brugada syndrome, a genetic heart arrhythmia triggered by stress, heavy meals, or PTSD, though the "hundred years' enigma" remains unsolved, blending real trauma with cinematic terror.   Sources: Brugada syndrome: MedlinePlus Genetics. (n.d.). https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/brugada-syndrome/ Chaloemthanetphong, A., Choowongkomon, K., Worrapitirungsi, W., Thangsiriskul, N., Sathirapatya, T., Sukawutthiya, P., Noh, H., Kanhar, A. A., Varrathyarom, P., Lertparinyaphorn, I., Natthasumon, N., Bongsebandhu-Phubhakdi, S., Auvichayapat, V., & Vongpaisarnsin, K. (2025). SCN5A missense variants and their contribution to deaths in Sudden Unexplained Nocturnal Death Syndrome (SUNDS). Forensic Science International Genetics, 76, 103237. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.fsigen.2025.103237 www.history.com/news/nightmare-on-elm-street-real-inspiration-hmong-death   www.nytimes.com/2024/11/10/movies/freddy-krueger-nightmare-on-elm-street-anniversary.html   Join The Dark Oak Discussion: Patreon The Dark Oak Podcast Website Facebook Instagram Twitter TikTok Youtube This episode of The Dark Oak was created, researched, written, recorded, hosted, edited, published, and marketed by Cynthia and Stefanie of Just Us Gals Productions with artwork by Justyse Himes and Music by Ryan Creep

Today we'll be talking about the conditions set by the Thai army to release Cambodian soldiers, a new direct flight from London to Bangkok aiming to boost UK tourism numbers, and a little later we'll talk about a whole bunch of Thai horror flicks to give you some chills this Halloween weekend.

SNAP funding to end November 1st :: messed up healthcare system :: whiskey rebellion :: individual rights :: Sarah from NM calls about automated police tech :: Skeeter calls to "destroy" libertarianism, fails again :: China pays too much for water plant in Nashua NH? :: Parker from CT calls about Chinese buying mineral rights and "national security" :: Dave Ridley calls about AI risk, was asked to submit an article to reason magazine :: $14 billion in bitcoin seized from Cambodian "pig butchering" scam operation :: 2025-10-26 Hosts: Stu, Penguin, Angelo

Fraudology is presented by Sardine. Get your tickets to Sardine[Con] and end the scamedmicIn this episode of Fraudology, host Karisse Hendrick analyzes several major developments in the global fraud landscape. She breaks down U.S. sanctions against a Cambodian financial group and the coordinated raids on scam compounds in Myanmar, highlighting how enforcement efforts are ramping up across Southeast Asia.Karisse also explores how fraudsters are adapting by using Starlink satellite internet, raising questions about corporate responsibility in curbing global cybercrime. Plus, she covers Europol's takedown of a SIM farm operation behind 49 million fake accounts and WhatsApp's new anti-spam measures. Listeners will come away with valuable context on how technology, regulation, and enforcement are converging to fight digital fraud.Fraudology is hosted by Karisse Hendrick, a fraud fighter with decades of experience advising hundreds of the biggest ecommerce companies in the world on fraud, chargebacks, and other forms of abuse impacting a company's bottom line. Connect with her on LinkedIn She brings her experience, expertise, and extensive network of experts to this podcast weekly, on Tuesdays.

Content Warning: This episode contains references to suicide and sexual assault within the context of student mental health and recovery. The discussion focuses on hope, resilience, and the impact of supportive relationships in higher education.What happens when a leader sees potential in people who've never seen it in themselves? In this deeply moving episode of IngenioUs, Dr. Kristen Esterberg shares how a single moment—when a mentor casually said "when you're a college president"—fundamentally shifted her understanding of her own possibilities. Now, as Chancellor of the University of Washington Bothell, she deliberately practices naming potentialin others, especially those who don't see themselves reflected in traditional leadership roles.Dr. Esterberg's leadership philosophy is grounded in her training as a sociologist and shaped by profound experiences with students overcoming tremendous obstacles. She shares theunforgettable story of a student who was the child of Cambodian refugees, struggling with the intergenerational trauma of genocide. That student brought her a jar of tiny origami stars and cranes—made to fight suicidal thoughts—and years later, Dr. Esterberg watched her cross the stage to receive a master's degree in social work. That jar still sits in her office today as a reminder of the transformative power of authentic relationships in higher education.In this conversation, Dr. Esterberg explores:The transition from "I towe"—moving from faculty to administrative leadership and discovering the joy of lifting barriers at scaleWhy she believes leadership happens at all levels of campus, from physical plant staff leadingsustainability initiatives to students finding their voiceHow her research on the LGBTQ+ homophile movement of the 1940s-50s provides historical perspective and hopeduring challenging timesThe importance of listening—not just to hear, but to truly understand opinions that differ from your ownHer completion of an Ironman Triathlon and how endurance athletics mirrors her approach to leadershipchallengesEssential tools for the leadership toolbox: deep listening skills, social media awareness, and genuine love foreducation, faculty, and studentsWhy creating environments where people can see themselves as leaders is critical to fulfilling higher education's transformative promiseDr. Esterberg's message is both challenging and hopeful: leadership is not the province of a select few but a possibility and responsibility that exists within all members of academiccommunities. By creating spaces where authentic relationships flourish and barriers to success are systematically dismantled, higher education can truly serve all students—especially those who have historically been marginalized or overlooked.This episode will inspire anyone who believes in the power of education to transform lives and the responsibility of leaders to see and name potential in others.ABOUT DR. KRISTEN ESTERBERGDr. Kristen Esterberg is Chancellor of the University ofWashington Bothell. A sociologist by training, she has served in leadership roles at multiple institutions including as Provost at Salem State University and in administrative positions at UMass Lowell. Her research focuses on LGBTQ+ social movements, and she is a passionate advocate for creating inclusiveacademic environments where all students can thrive. An accomplished endurance athlete, she recently completed an Ironman Triathlon.

SNAP funding to end November 1st :: messed up healthcare system :: whiskey rebellion :: individual rights :: Sarah from NM calls about automated police tech :: Skeeter calls to "destroy" libertarianism, fails again :: China pays too much for water plant in Nashua NH? :: Parker from CT calls about Chinese buying mineral rights and "national security" :: Dave Ridley calls about AI risk, was asked to submit an article to reason magazine :: $14 billion in bitcoin seized from Cambodian "pig butchering" scam operation :: 2025-10-26 Hosts: Stu, Penguin, Angelo

Today we'll be talking about the unfortunate passing of her Majesty Queen Sirikit and the impact her mourning period will have on events and nightlife, Donald Trump's overseeing of the Thai-Cambodian border accord in Kuala Lumpur, and a little later a massive drug sting operation conducted against Nigerian drug dealers in Nana.

French police arrest two Louvre heist suspects, including one at the airport attempting to flee the country. U.S. President Donald Trump announces a 10% tariff hike on Canadaafter Ontario Premier Doug Ford aired a controversial ad featuring Ronald Reagan during the World Series. Trump has begun a five-day Asia trip with Thailand and Cambodian leaders signing a ceasefire deal, as he hopes for progress on trade talks with China. And a furloughed IRS attorney sells hot dogs from his cart named "Shysters" as the government shutdown drags on. Recommended Read Retirees on the edge: Argentina's protesting pensioners Sign up for the Reuters Econ World newsletter here.  Listen to the Reuters Econ World podcast here. Visit the Thomson Reuters Privacy Statement for information on our privacy and data protection practices.  You may also visit megaphone.fm/adchoices to opt out of targeted advertising. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nite Yun was born in a refugee camp after her parents escaped from war-torn Cambodia. Her family eventually moved to California, where she grew up listening to her father's Khmer rock and roll music and learned to cook traditional Cambodian dishes from her mother. Inspired by trips to Cambodia to learn about her heritage, Nite dedicated herself to bringing the flavors of Cambodian food back to the Bay Area. She opened her first restaurant, Nyum Bai, in Oakland in 2018 and now runs Lunette, located in San Francisco's Ferry Building. In this episode, we talk about Nite's amazing journey and her terrific new cookbook, My Cambodia. It's one of our favorites of this busy season, and we hear some great stories from the road. Also on the show, we have a really fun conversation with best-selling romance author Sarah MacLean. We talk about Rhode Island foods and what makes a great food scene in romance writing. What a fun talk! Subscribe to This Is TASTE: ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Legendary journalist and author Elizabeth Becker, who has spent her career bearing witness to the frontlines of history, joins us to talk about her new book, You Don't Belong Here: How Three Women Rewrote the Story of War ,a riveting account of three trailblazing female correspondents who shattered gender barriers to cover the Vietnam War. The book tells the stories of Frances FitzGerald, Kate Webb, and Catherine Leroy, but Elizabeth herself reported from Cambodia and Vietnam in the 1970s. Her courage and insight—captured in You Don't Belong Here—help redefine how we understand both war and the craft of journalism. We'll also explore Becker's earlier, haunting book, When the War Was Over: Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge Revolution. Drawing on her harrowing reporting in Cambodia, Becker offers an account of the Khmer Rouge's genocide. She became one of only two Western journalists to meet Pol Pot—an experience that forever shaped her understanding of power, propaganda, and human tragedy. That historic meeting has now inspired the new feature film Meeting with Pol Pot (2024), directed by acclaimed Cambodian filmmaker Rithy Panh. The dramatization follows three Western journalists navigating a tightly controlled “Potemkin village” as the regime teeters on the brink of collapse and mass murder is underway behind the scenes. The film, which premiered at Cannes in 2024, brings Becker's gripping firsthand account to life and raises questions about truth, memory, and the moral responsibility of journalists. As the character based on Becker—Lise Delbo, played by Irène Jacob—observes, “Genocide is also about silence. You don't see anything, you don't hear anything.” Elizabeth Becker is a pioneering journalist and author. She began her career as a war correspondent for The Washington Post in Cambodia and later served as The New York Times' Senior Foreign Editor. She has covered politics, economics, and international affairs for decades and is a sought-after commentator and lecturer. Her books—award-winning, deeply reported, and beautifully written—have reshaped how we understand Vietnam, Cambodia, and the role of women in war. Learn more: elizabethbecker.com/about | Reviews We're grateful to UPMC for Life  for sponsoring this event!

A new exhibition of Cambodian bronze sculptures from the Khmer Empire and other significant pieces opens at the Minneapolis Institute of Art on Saturday. It's the first time some of these pieces have been on display in the U.S. and Mia is the only U.S. museum that will host this exhibition. The exhibition is part of a collaboration between Mia, the National Museum of Cambodia and the Guimet, the National Museum of Asian Arts, in France. Virajita Singh, Mia's chief diversity officer, and Chhay Visoth, the director of the National Museum of Cambodia, joined MPR News host Nina Moini to share more about the exhibition's significance. Royal Bronzes: Cambodian Art of the Divine is at Mia from Oct. 25 to Jan. 18, 2026.

From food shelves to energy assistance, we explore how different social services around the state are affected as the federal government shutdown drags on and becomes the second longest in history.A Minnesotan made a documentary about Palestinian and Israeli peacemakers who are working together. We talk to her about navigating those conversations.We check in on rural healthcare out of Rochester with MPR News reporter Molly Castle Work.And do Minnesota's upcoming municipal elections have you overwhelmed or confused? We hear from the creator of the MPR News voter guide for some clarity.And we explore bronze Cambodian sculptures in a new exhibition at the Minneapolis Institute of Art. The Minnesota Music Minute was “Tjärnblom" by Nicollett Island Waltz. The Song of the Day was "817 Oakland Ave" by Charlie Parr.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. On tonight's episode, we're focusing on a particular segment of our immigrant and refugee community, Hmong and Bhutanese refugees. Both of these targeted communities are stateless with no land to call their own, and their deportation carries the very real danger of disappearance and death. Robin Gurung from Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong innovating Politics, discuss their community and personal refugee stories, and talk about the intersection of the US' deeply broken immigration and criminal legal systems, otherwise known as crimmigration. We also get to hear from the wives of two detained refugees, one Bhutanese and one Hmong, who are currently fighting to keep their families together and to protect their loved ones from the dangers of deportation as stateless people.   Important Links: Hmong Innovating Politics: Website | Instagram Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram Bhutanese American Refugee Rights website Transcript Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on KPFA. My name is Swati Rayasam. Since the onset of the Trump administration, immigrant and refugee communities have been under increased attack, being kidnapped in broad daylight, detained in unsanitary and unsafe conditions, and deported to countries many of them barely know. All without due process or communication to their loved ones and communities. On tonight's episode, we're focusing on a particular segment of our immigrant and refugee community, Hmong and Bhutanese refugees. Both of these targeted communities are stateless with no land to call their own, and their deportation carries the very real danger of disappearance and death. Robin Gurung from Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong innovating Politics, discuss their community and personal refugee stories, and talk about the intersection of the US' deeply broken immigration and criminal legal systems, otherwise known as crimmigration. We also get to hear from the wives of two detained refugees, one Bhutanese and one Hmong, who are currently fighting to keep their families together and to protect their loved ones from the dangers of deportation as stateless people. I also want to note because this is a rapidly developing situation, that this episode was recorded on August 13th, 2025, and is being released on August 28th, 2025. For the most recent updates, please go to bhutaneserefugeerights.org or check out the Pardon Refugees campaign. Now, here's Miko. Miko: Welcome to Apex Express. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm so glad to bring you all together in this time. I'm wondering if I could ask you each to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about the community your organization serves and what you do, and let's start with Kao Ye. Kao Ye: Hello everyone, and thank you for making space- my name is Kao Ye Tao. I use she her pronouns, and I work as the director of policy and partnerships with an organization called Hmong Innovating Politics. We are an organization that serves Hmong youth and families in Sacramento and Fresno, which holds two of our largest Hmong American communities in California. And our work with Hmong youth and families is really about developing their leadership to organize towards social justice and to get the resources that their communities deserve. Miko: Thank you, Kao Ye and Robin, could you please introduce yourself? Robin: Sure. My name is Robin Gurung. I use he, him, his, I'm from the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community. I live in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. my role at Asian Refugees United is the co-founder and the co-executive director. We have our program in California and Pennsylvania. California programs are, are serving Asian diaspora and then, Pennsylvania programs are focused serving the Nepal speaking Bhutanese community. We work in the intersection of arts and healing, storytelling, civic engagement, leadership development. Thank you. Miko: Thanks Robin and I am your host Miko Lee, lead producer at Apex Express. And all of us are part of a network called AACRE Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, which is a network of progressive Asian American groups. So you all work with refugee populations. I'm wondering if you could tell a little bit more about the backstory of your community, and also if you feel comfortable about how you personally came to be a refugee in the United States. And, Robin, I'd love to start with you on that one. Robin: Sure. My community is Nepali speaking, Bhutanese refugee community. And we are ethnically Nepali, which means culture wise and language wise we speak Nepali and follow the Nepali culture tradition. Our ancestors like maybe in 18 hundreds, 19 hundreds migrated from Nepal to Bhutan and became the citizen of that country. And most people don't know about Bhutan, it's a very tiny country between China and India. And, if people know about Bhutan, then people know it through the cross national happiness concept, Bhutan is considered the happiest country in the world. So our ancestors were in mostly in the southern area of Bhutan for generations, they became the citizen. They had their own home, their own land. And then later, 1980s, early nineties, there was a policy by the government of Bhutan, which is the monarchy government system- king rules the country. They brought a policy called One Nation, One People Policy. Which means all different groups of people would have to follow the same culture, same religion, kind of follow the same dress code and because of that policy all people were forced to stay away from following our own culture or our own religion, which, most of our folks were Hindu. Our people protested against it and because of that, the government expelled over a hundred thousand of our community members. And, they expelled to India and then from like India wouldn't allow us to stay and we had to resettle in Nepal in seven different refugee camps under different international agencies like U-N-H-C-R and other agencies. Miko: And then Robin, can you tell a little bit about your personal story and how you came here? Robin: Yeah. Yeah. So 1992 is when my family had to leave Bhutan. And at that time I was three years old. I remember growing up in a refugee camp in Nepal, from three years until I was 23 years. So 20 years of my life I was in a refugee camp in Nepal. And in 2012, I came to US through the refugee resettlement program introduced to our camps in 2008, and through it US agreed to resettle 60,000 of our committee members. By 2017, I think US has resettled about 70 to 80,000 of our Bhutanese community members.   Miko: Thank you so much for sharing. Kao Ye I wonder if you could talk about your community and the refugee resettlement program that your community was a part of. Kao Ye: The Hmong American community, or just the Hmong community overall, is a group that's indigenous to East and Southeast Asia. And through our ancient history, we've always been a stateless, people fighting for our autonomy to live to practice our customs and our culture. And particularly where we come into this history of refugee is during the Vietnam War where many Hmong people, alongside other ethnic groups in Laos, were caught in the crossfire of the United States conflict in Southeast Asia. And so with the Vietnam War. The Hmong as well as many other ethnic communities that lived, in the hills and the mountains were recruited in covert operations by the CIA to fight back against the Vietnamese, the Northern Vietnamese communist forces, as well as the Putet Lao. And so once the US withdrew from Southeast Asia, it created a vacuum of conflict and violence that our people had to escape from in order to survive. And so after the Vietnam War in 1975, we saw the mass displacement of many Southeast Asian ethnic communities, including Hmong families. And that is where my history starts because my parents were born in Laos and because of this war, they fled to Thailand refugee camps and lived there for a few years until they were able to come to the United States in 1992. And I'm actually I'm a child of refugees and so what I know about this part of my history comes from the stories of my grandparents who raised me as well as what little I could learn in the textbooks of public education. And so it wasn't actually until going to college and. Being able to access more of this literature, this history that I really learned about what the United States had done in Southeast Asia and the ramifications of that for myself and my family and so many others, refugees that. Have to have had to resettle in the United States. And so it's definitely a history that runs very close, because we have relatives that live through that refugee experience. And so it is very well and alive. And so as we now approach this conversation around ICE and deportations, it really is a reminder of the trauma that our people face, but are still facing as a people that have been seen as disposable to the United States government. Miko: Thanks, Kao Ye. Let's talk a little bit more about that. But first I wanna say, did either of you ever hear about refugees in your textbooks? I never did. So I'm wondering if, you said you learned a little bit about that from textbooks. Was that something you learned in public education. Kao Ye: I did not learn about refugees or refugees experience. I learned about the war and as a Hmong kid it brought me so much delight to try to scroll through the history books just to see if Hmong people were mentioned. And even then the refugee experience was not ever something that we talked about. I felt like definitely not in, in high school. I think it was college really, that then started to articulate those terms and that Southeast Asian identity, that is really where I think I also became politicized in that. Miko: Yeah, because I think in textbooks there might be a little section on the Vietnam War, but it does not talk about the, all the Southeast Asian ethnic peoples that actually fought in the war. We have to dig that information out on our own, but I wanna move us to what is happening right now. So the Trump administration has created. Culture of fear among immigrants and refugees, these ICE raids and disappearances. It is so intense and using immigrants as a fear tool to prop up white supremacy is so blatant right now. I'm wondering if you can each talk about, how this administration's policies are impacting your communities. And, Robin, let's start with you. What is happening right now? I know since the end of March, can you share a little bit about what's been happening with Bhutanese Americans? Robin: Sure. Sure. So our people were settled to this country with the hope that this is going to be our home. But starting March of this year, with the new policies of this current administration, we started seeing abrupt, ICE arrest in our communities. People were picked up from home, their workplaces, and from their ICE, check-ins. And, since March, within I would say two to three months, more than 72 of our community members were picked up, mostly from Pennsylvania and then Ohio, and also from other states like New York, Georgia, North Dakota. So until now, we have, the records of at least 50 people who have been deported to Bhutan and at least 72 who are detained. So more than 30 people are [at risk] of getting detained. The nature of the ICE arrests that we have seen is we don't know whether the due processes were followed. They made it so hard for the families to look for attorneys, and also to track their family members. Within days family members would find their loved ones disappeared, and then they wouldn't be able to talk to them they wouldn't be able to track them and provide the support that they needed. So for us as a community organization we did not anticipate this and we were not prepared for this. And, and we didn't have the infrastructure to really address this, right? So it became such challenging work for us. Like within days we had to mobilize our people. We had to mobilize our teams to help family members with legal support, emotional support, mobilize our community members to update what's happening with this situation. The rapid response work, know your rights clinics that we had to set up. So on one hand it's the detention and deportation in the US and on the other hand, when our people were deported to Bhutan, what we're seeing is within 24 hours, they are being expelled from Bhutan to India, and then from India because India wouldn't accept them as well, they had to enter Nepal because for most of these Deportee, they're very young, they were born in refugee camps, and for most of them, the only known land is Nepal. Right. And they had to enter Nepal without documentation. And then some of them were found in refugee camps. And most of them are unknown. Like they're, they have disappeared. Miko: So that is so much over the last few months that ARU has had to step in and take a leading, role in this situation that has impacted the Bhutanese community from focusing on wellness and youth development to suddenly translating materials into Nepali, translating, know Your Rights materials into Nepali, hosting all these different events, the work that you have been doing is really powerful. I wonder if you could share with us the story of Mohan Karki, who is a community member that's currently detained in Michigan. Robin: Sure. So, Mohan Karki is now in detention in Michigan and he's a community member member who lived in Ohio. So he was detained by ICE during his regular ICE check-in , I believe in April, they detained him and then he was taken for deportation. And last minute, the families and the community had to come together and then appeal the deportation. Right now he's in Michgan detention center and his wife, who was pregnant and had due date, when Mohan was being deported on June 10, is now fighting day and night to stop the deportation and also to bring Mohan home. Right now, Asian Refugees United and other community partners, like AWPAL, Asian Law Caucus are working together to support Mohan's family, to bring Mohan home and also running a, GoFund me fundraiser, to help the family pay the legal fees. Miko: Thanks Robin. And we're gonna listen to Tikas story right now. Tika Basnet: Hi, my name is Tika Basnet I'm from Ohio and I'm fighting my husband deportation case. So on April seven, a lot of people told us not to go to the ICE office, but my husband wanna follow the rules, he wanna go there. We went to the Westerville office inside And we sit down, we talk to each other. Nothing will go wrong. And suddenly ICE told us to come inside and they told us that my husband got travel documents from Bhutan. I told them like it is not safe for my husband to get deport in Bhutan, all the Bhutanese people run away in 1990s due to the ethnic cleansing and if my husband get deported in Bhutan, he will either gonna get killed, tortured, disappeared, imprisoned, I don't know what will happen, but they did not listen to me. So they detained my husband and I came at the parking lot and his mom saw me coming alone. So they start crying and I told them like, Mohan is gone and this is the last time I think I'm gonna see my husband. the time that my husband was taken away from Butler County on June 10 I was 41 weeks pregnant. I was supposed to deliver on, June 10. But no, I told the doctor I change my delivery time. I am not gonna go now like I need to fight for my husband. Like, When Bhutanese people started coming here in 2007. Third party promise us that in here in United States, we will get our identity. That identity will never taken away. They promise us that the way Bhutan take our identity, they will not gonna do that. we thought that this is our home. We thought that having a green card, having a citizenship, it is permanently, but no, we are, we all are wrong. And that identity is taken away within a second. And we became stateless again. So, my husband, Mohan Karki he just arrived in the United States he been here less than two years when the incident happened. He did not understand the law. He did not understand the culture. He did not know anything. My husband he was only 17 years old, high school student coming from school to home. On the way to reach their apartment, there is one private house. They are just trying to go to the shortcut from the backyard. So some neighbor call 9 1 1. And that only one mistake lead to deportation. The place that we come from, there is no boundaries. In Nepal, we are allowed to go anybody property We are allowed to walk somebody else house and because of the cultural difference, he's paying price right now. At that time, nobody can speak English. They cannot understand what police were saying and Nepali interpreter told my husband that if you say I'm guilty, you'll out of prison soon. But if you did not say I'm guilty, you'll end up in prison for 20 to 25 years. High school student he's scared he just say, I'm guilty, and he did not know what is deportation mean. He did not know what he was signing. Nobody informed him what he was signing. That signing was deportation. What happened in 2013 is impacting us in 2025 and still he wish he did not cross somebody else backyard at that time. He wish he knew that he wasn't allowed to cross somebody else's backyard. I don't know what will our future is gonna be, but I hope that he gets second chance. His community love him. He love people. He was working as a truck driver. He paid taxes. He was supporting his parent. He was supporting me. My daughter deserve to have a father. You know, she's just one month. But now the dream that I was hoping one day I'm gonna build with my husband that is taken away and I'm left alone with this child. I already went through a lot without him, i'm the only one that fighting for my husband case. The deportation is not only breaking one family, but it is breaking everybody, the community and the family. And I hope that people can support me so I can fight for my husband case. Like I really need so many attorney. I need criminal attorney to open up his 2013 case. And I have wonderful, wonderful attorney, my husband get stay off removal, but that is not guarantee my husband can get deport anytime. The attorney fee are really expensive and he still needs support. The US made bhutanese people a promise of home. We belong here. Stop the detention and deportation. Stop deporting Bhutanese people. We are stateless. We don't have country, don't have a home. This is our home. US is our home. We belong here. Miko: Of the 72 people, Mohan is the first Bhutanese refugee that we actually have a stay of release on, as Robin was saying earlier, most of the folks were moved from state to state, so you can't really get a lawyer in that time. And as we all know, nonprofit immigration lawyers are under a lot of stress because of the attack of this administration. So it makes it incredibly complicated, let alone the legal fees that it costs to help support people going through this. And right now, Mohan has a stay on his, deportation and the lawyer that they do have is drafting up a letter to be able to release him into the community and also overturn his original case that happened as a minor in Georgia, which was a ridiculous case where he was leaving school, early high school, first year in the country, leaving high school early, and walked with his friends across a backyard. And the neighbor that they walked through their yard called the police, and they arrested him along with his friends for trespassing, they gave him paperwork that he didn't even understand. He signed it along with a interpreter they gave him false information to say he'd be locked up for 25 years, or if he signed this papers, that would be fine. He could go and what the papers said was it changed his charge into a felony and had him sign a letter of deportation. So this is part of the failure of our American legal system that we're not providing adequate information. It is a lack of due process. Thankfully, the work that Asian Law Caucus and United States of Stateless and other community activists are doing to call this out and help work with us is really critical. I wanna turn now to Kao Ye how this administrations is impacting Hmong refugees, and how is it similar or different to the experiences that Robin is describing for the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community? Kao Ye: I echoed many of the sentiments and the challenges that Robin shared around what we as nonprofit, grassroots organizations are having to build and grapple with just the limited infrastructure that we have to deal with the current ICE disappearances and deportation and all the support that's needed for the families. And so thank you Robin, for sharing that. I wanted to start broad a little bit because I think that this Trump administration is happening in the backdrop of the 50th year commemoration of the end of the wars in Southeast Asia and the refugee resettlement. We had over 1.1 million Southeast Asians resettle to the United States, the largest immigration resettlement, in American history. And so this year brings so many complexities, I think as a Southeast Asian community where there is a level of looking back at policies that have impacted us and have failed, but also looking forward what is the community that we are building together to move and progress together. And so there are those complexities, I think as the fact that it's the 50th year and like, this is what we're dealing with. This is the trauma that we are grappling with. And so I wanted to put that out front and center because even I think within our communities , there is no necessarily enlightenment in terms of how we talk about what is happening to our people and how they're getting deported unjustly. So that is why it is so important to have this dialogue within our communities as well as the solidarity that we also share with the Bhutanese community and other immigrant groups too. I think that in many of our Southeast Asian communities, their reasons for deportations is very tied to past convictions, and so this is the intersection between criminal law and immigration law. And it makes it complex because our people are now having to consult not just an immigration lawyer, but like criminal attorney so that they could really assess like what kind of relief they can get in order to mitigate, impending deportations. And then also miko you had shared about the lack of adequate legal service or representation because many of these folks, right, that have had these convictions that have now served their time and are simply members of our community that make our community rich. They are now having to revisit removal orders that they signed, thinking that, oh, nothing necessarily was gonna happen because they don't have a repatriation agreement. So, in our community, there was never a thought that we were going to be deported back to our home country because of that policy. And so that is a big contributing factor as to why the Hmong community, we don't have that infrastructure to really support our members who have gone through the criminal justice system and now have those removal orders. And so HIP, as well as many other grassroots. Sadly we did have to scramble to put this know your rights information together because again, I don't think that there was visibility in the need for us in this conversation around immigration Southeast Asians are a segment of our API community and so it just, I think, multiplied the invisibility that we already faced as a group of Southeast Asians. And so the support was definitely not there. And, to Robin's point, we did our best to try to put this information together to our community, starting with the Know Your Rights. And then we also realized like it was more complex than that, and that the legal supports were so necessary because everyone's case was different. I think what we're still dealing with now is that there's always been a lack of trust between our community members and government entities and nonprofit organizations. And so, if someone is dealing with the situation, they wanna go to, a partner that they trust to help them, even if they're not necessarily equipped to do that work, is that they're going to only the people that they trust because there is such a big mistrust. And so I think that, there is still the level of trust building that is needed to be done within our community so that folks feel comfortable to come to us or come to other people for support. And I think what makes me feel emotional is just when I hear about community members feeling hopeless and just feeling like there's nothing that they can do and that level of disempowerment to me, I think is something that is real. And I can't say that we can't combat it, but I think that it is about being able to find different outlets of support for them. Miko: Thank you for lifting that up. And just , in terms of the numbers, over three months, March, April and May, there were about 72 Bhutanese Americans that have been detained. And this is just kind of starting up with the Hmong community. So we had 15 that were detained from Minnesota and another 10 right now are being held in Michigan. And we also see this happening with Vietnamese, Laotian, Cambodians, and Myan folks. All of these folks as Kao Ye you're pointing out, have had common threads, which is connections with the system, with the criminal legal/ justice system and crimmigration is something that in the AACRE network we've been talking about and working on, which is really about the education to prison, to deportation pipeline. And one of the things that this administration had talked about is, let's get rid of all the murderers and the rapists. You know, this like scare language about people that are convicted criminals, let's get rid of them all. But the fact of the matter. The vast majority of all of these people are people like Mohan Karki, a cultural misunderstanding that happened when he was a child. Like Lou Yang, who is Hmong refugee detained in Michigan right now. Somebody who was involved in something as a kid, but has since then become a leader in the community. So let's take a moment and listen to the spouse of Lou Yang, a Hmong refugee detained in Michigan in July. Anne Vu: My name is Anne Vu and I come before you today with a heart full of hope. Sorrow and a plea for justice. I am a proud American, a mother of six, the daughter of Hmong refugees who would gain their citizenship, and the wife of a man called Lou Yang, who is now detained and faced with potential deportation from the only country that he's ever known. Lou has lived in Michigan since October, 1979. He was born stateless in a refugee camp in Nongkai Thailand and his family fled Laos due to persecution. His father and like many others, served with the United States force during the Vietnam War as part of the Secret War, recruited by CIA in Laos, a conflict that most Americans do not know has happened. The Hmong were recruited by the CIA as part of the Secret War to help America during the Vietnam War. But when the war ended and the US withdrew, we were as the Hmongs declared enemy of the state. What followed was genocide, polarization and persecution by the state, and it was because of our alliance, the promise made by the US government that the Hmong refugees were legally settled here under certain migration of refugee laws and acts. And Lou arrived here as a young, toddler in infancy. In 1997, he was arrested on an alleged accomplice in an attempt home invasion, second degree. He was in the vehicle at the time. He never entered the home. He literally was still a juvenile at that time. He had a court appointed attorney and was advised to take a plea without being told it would affect his immigration status for the rest of his life. This is the reality of our immigration system – long, complex, confusing and devastating, unforgiving. It is not built for people like us, people like Lou, people who have served their time, rebuilt their lives and have nowhere else to go. We've walked this legal path, we've stayed together in the lines, and yet we are here punished today. Lou has no other charges, no current legal issues, no history of violence. He is not a flight risk. He is not a danger to our public safety. He is a father, my husband, a son, a son-in-law, a grandson and a brother to many, and our leader and a provider to our community, and to my family. He renews his work authorization and follows every rule asked of him no matter how uncertain the future felt. Together, we've raised six beautiful children. They're all proud Americans. Lou has contributed to Michigan's economy for decades working in our automotive industry and now he is gone and all that he is built is unraveling and the community is heartbroken. We didn't come from wealth. We didn't have every opportunity handed to us because we didn't come seeking a land of opportunity. We came here because of survival. We had to build from the ground up. But the most important thing was Lou and I, we had each other. We had our families, our friends, and our neighbors. We had a shared commitment to build a better life, grounded in love, respect, and purpose. And somehow that's still not enough. For years, we were told like other Hmong families that Laos in Thailand would never take us back. And that has changed. In June, 2025 the US imposed a partial travel ban on Laos, citing visa overstays, and lack of deportation cooperation. And in response, Laos began issuing these documents under pressure. Today over 4,800, including Hmong, Myan, and the other ethnic minorities are facing removal to Laos and to many other countries, many have never stepped foot in a country that they are now being sent to. Lou is Stateless like many others that is detained with him. None of these countries recognize him. He was born in the Thailand refugee camp, it does not recognize him nor qualify him for any sort of Thai citizenship and I'll tell you guys right now if forced to return, he will face danger because of his family's deep ties to the CIA and United States military. Deporting him turns him, a civil servant and respected community leader, into a political casualty, it would be a grave and irreversible injustice. To deport him now is to punish him to death. Once again, 50 years later, as we celebrate resilience this year across the nation, we are now celebrating a fight within our own grounds, right here in United States, right here in Michigan. We're now fighting the same fight within our own country. Thousands of Southeast Asian Americans, many that entered legally admitted as refugees are being deported for decade old offenses they've longed paid for. America is our country. All we ask is the right to stay in the home that we've helped to build and work hard to protect. We are not seeking special treatment. We are asking for justice, compassion, and a second chance in this country to claim what we believe in. To Governor Whitmer and members of Congress and all elected officials, please help bring Lou and the many others home. Urge ICE and DHS to release him on humanitarian grounds. Help his case. Help us preserve the integrity of our laws and the dignity of our families. And to the public allies and the media. Please call our elected officials. Please call these offices. Please share Lou's story. We need voices. Voices louder than ours alone. It is hard times you guys. It is real. And I speak to you from the bottom of my heart. Please help me and our families in the many that are suffering. This is our home. These are our children. This is my husband and this is our fight. Let him come home. Let our families be whole again, and let America keep its promise. Thank you guys for hearing me. Miko: Lou Young is a community leader. Michigan, who actually runs a nonprofit in support of Hmong folks in that community, and is targeted and also has a stay of removal. So we're doing a targeted campaign for both of these folks, Lou Yang and Mohan Karki, to be able to get them released to overturn their original convictions and they also have spouses that are telling their stories and telling the impact these detentions have had. Because while this current administration talks about getting rid of criminals, what they are actually doing is breaking apart families and community. Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. Coming up is Deporting the Pilgrim from the Anakbayan Long Beach Mayday Mix tape.   Swati Rayasam: That was please be strong, featuring Hushed, loudmouth and Joe handsome. And before that was deporting the pilgrim from the Unec Bayan Long Beach Mayday Mixtape. Now back to the show. Miko: I wanna shift us a little bit to talking about Asian american representation in the larger fabric of immigration justice in the United States. Mostly many of our Asian communities have been like isolated, not really involved in the broader immigration movement. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the difficulty and nuance of bringing your community struggle to the forefront because many of us heard about the Venezuelans and the Mexicans that have been deported and what was going on, but we don't hear as much about these stories of our Asian sisters and brothers. I wonder if one of you could give voice to that. Robin: Before going there can I add something to Miko: of course. Robin: crimmigration conversation? So when you all are sharing about that, I was thinking about, the justice system in this country and what we are seeing right now is a broken justice system. Like you said, Miko, where families are separated where families are broken, and what I don't understand is, when, let's say your loved one gets into trouble, makes a mistake, and gets into a trouble, then, as a human being, like, don't you want your loved ones to rebuild their lives? Like Yes, of course there is a system that you have to follow, the laws that you have to follow, but at the end, I think we all want our loved ones to come back, rebuild their lives, right? And what we're seeing in this country is they're constantly breaking the families. And I don't see how we are going to build a better future when we are constantly, hurting the families. And in the cases of detention and deportation, what we're seeing is the double punishment. Like the mistakes that they had made, but then throughout their life, they have to go through that, a continuous cycle of being punished. And not just the individuals, but their family members have also go through the challenges, the suffering, right? And in the case of Bhutanese from double punishment to double expulsion to this, the state of being statelessness. Right? So what kind of future we are imagining when an individual has to go through that continuous cycle of being punished and not having the opportunity to rebuild their lives. So that's a big question mark that I think, we all need to think about. To your later question around my community and the larger Asian American context or the national context. My community is relatively new to this country. We lived, almost two decades in a refugee camp, which was a enclosed camp. And our lives were dependent on foreign aids like UNHCR or ILWF. Pretty much I would say we had our own world over there. And for us to work outside the refugee camp was illegal. There was no laws that gave us the permission to work outside. So we were not pretty much exposed to the outer world. So for us to come to US was a big step. Which means pretty much from basic every day stuffs like, you know, using a bathroom, using a kitchen, taking a bus. All of those were foreign for us. So for our community to really tap into the education system, the political landscape of this country. And also like the experience of being expelled for voicing our, our opinions, for fighting for our rights. Right? So for us, for our community to kind of step in into the politics, it's like re-traumatizing ourselves. I would say there are a lot of barriers, multi-layered barriers for our community members to really tap into the larger political, like socio political landscape, from language barriers to culture barriers to education, to pretty much everything. So right now, the way our committee has been being attacked. It's a surprise to the community. And also it is like kind of traumatizing the community and taking us back to the same place of feeling, insecure, feeling like we don't have a home. And we did hope that this is legally, this is going to be a home. Because after coming to the US most of us became the legal citizens of this country and we started rebuilding our lives. Now it's kind of like going back to the same circle of statelessness. Miko: Thank you for sharing about that. Kao Ye, would you like to add to that? Kao Ye: When I think of the Hmong American community and even the Southeast Asian community and why the narratives of what is happening still feels very invisible. I think of how our community, we were assimilating for survival. And I speak on that as a child of my refugee parents and siblings where growing up we were taught to, listen, not speak out, not cause trouble. Go through the system, listen to authority, listen to law enforcement. And because of that, I feel it's shaped a culture of fear. Fear to dissent and fear to speak out because we care so much about the stability of our families. And we wanted to protect ourselves, because of everything we've gone through with the war. And we are finding that it's been challenging for our community members to come forward with their stories. Honestly, we're still sitting on that and we're still kind of sitting through like, why is there that tension? You know, I feel like folks are going through a lot and even folks have, our impacted loved ones, but they're afraid to tell their story because of fear of of retaliation. And so I think that there is a level of, I think that lack of even psychological safety, but real, physical, real financial safety that people have. And I think that being a factor to the assimilation, but also this facade of like the American dream and like if we don't just disrupt, if we don't speak out, we will be protected. And, white supremacy, right? Like we will be okay. And it's a facade because we know that because our communities are the ones getting kidnapped and getting deported. Right. And so I think there is that fear, but there's also recognition of this now, this facade that the silence doesn't protect us and that there is a real need for us to really, be strong in speaking out, not just for our SEA siblings that are impacted, but for all of our immigrant groups, even the Bhutanese community, right. That's been impacted during this time. And so I, yeah, I think it is that multi-layered experience of being a Southeast Asian refugee community on top of, being part of this AAPI umbrella. AAPI we are not homogenous. We all have very unique histories as to how we have dealt with the systems in this country and how we came into this country. And so I think it's been challenging to make space for those nuances. And at the end of the day, I still see the interconnections that we all have together too. And so, I think it's the willingness to make space for those different stories. And I am finding that more of our ethnic media, our smaller news outlets are more willing to cover those stories as opposed to, these larger mainstream outlets. Like they're not covering those stories, but we are. Miko: Thank you. Oh, both of you have brought up so much today about our failed criminal justice system, about us punishing people as opposed to rehabilitating people and punishing them more than once. We brought up questions around statelessness and the impact that it has, and I just recently learned that the United States does not have any policy on Statelessness. So one of the things that this coalition of folks is trying to do is to get a congressional hearing to help the United States develop policy around statelessness, because it is actually our responsibility and our duty to do that. The other thing I hear you both talking about is this good immigrant, bad immigrant trope, which we've heard of a lot, but I think that's also very much connected to why so many members of our communities don't wanna speak out because this connection with, you know, quote unquote criminal history might be something that's shameful. And I'm wondering if you both see that as a divide mostly between elders in the community and younger folks. Robin, do you wanna talk about that? Robin: Yeah. I mean, initially when we were mobilizing our community members to fight against the the unjust and unfair detention and deportation, this issue around the perception around good immigrants and bad immigrants became one of the main topic of discussion. We had to deal with people, and mostly elders, but I would say some young folks as well, who would pull themselves back on speaking against this issue because for them people who are being deported or detained are criminals and they deserve this kind of mindset. And not being able to see the larger picture of how the administration is targeting the immigrant and the refugee population of this country and really trying to dismantle community power, right? So, yes, it is a challenge that we are, we're going through and I think it's going to be quite a bit of work, to really build solidarity within our own communities. Kao Ye: I feel that the divide in the Hmong community is stemming from class and education. I feel as though when folks are articulating, regurgitating these justifications of the bad immigrant as to why folks should be deported it's folks that maybe kind of made it in their lives and now they're comparing themselves to folks that were not in that situation. And there is this growing within our community as well, where some folks are getting that education, getting, good jobs. But so much of our community, we still suffer from poverty, right? And so, I think that has been really interesting to witness the level of division because of class, because of income and also the education piece. Because oftentimes when folks are feeling this, it comes from a place of ignorance as well. And so that's why I think the education piece is so important. I actually feel though our elders are more understanding because these are their children that are being separated from them. And Robin's point is that when we have loved ones that go through the system, we just want them to rebuild their lives and be self-sufficient. And I feel like those are the values that I grew up in my community where our parents were always about keeping the family together to a fault, you know? And so they don't want separation. They just want us to be well and to do well, and to turn our lives around. And so, I feel strongly that our elders, they do understand that the importance of giving this opportunity for us to, to stay together and turn our lives around. Miko: Thank you so much, both of you for joining me here today to talk about this important conversation. I'm wondering if you could provide our audience with how they could find out more about what is going on and what are next steps for our audience members. Robin, let's start with you. Robin: Yeah. I just wanted to add what, Kao Ye talked about. I do agree the patterns around the divide is based on class. And I do see that in the community, and not just the class, but in our community class and caste, I would say. And in terms of the class, there were some instances where we had to deal with even the highly educated like PhD holders kind of, questioning us like, you know, what we are advocating for, and, I couldn't understand like, I couldn't relate the education, the title, the degree that he holds and the perception around this issue. Right. So, I just wanted to echo that. So, in terms of our work and Asian Refugees United, our website is www.asianrefugees.org And you can find us in our Instagram, Facebook, Asian Refugees United. Miko: And you can also get latest news about what's happening at bhutaneserefugeerights.com. Yeah. And Kao Ye how can folks find out more about your work? Kao Ye: Right now HIP is part of a statewide network in California called the Pardon Refugees Campaign, where we are really pushing Governor Newsom to pardon all refugees, not just Southeast Asians because of everything that we talked about, about how our families, they deserve to stay together. And so, I don't think we have a website up yet, but you can follow this campaign with us. We will be having a rally and press conference, coming up soon, in the next few weeks. And so, I would say that please follow us in that work where we are really moving in coalition with all of our uh, grassroots partners to advocate for our loved ones that are currently being impacted. Miko: Thank you so much, Robin Gurung, Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong Innovating Politics. Thank you so much for being with us here today, and I hope you listeners out there take action to keep our families together, to keep our people in the communities as loved ones where they belong. Thank you all. Have a great night. Swati Rayasam: I'm so grateful that Miko was able to talk to Robin and Kao Ye. And for those who missed it, visit bhutanese refugee rights.org for the most recent updates on the Bhutanese refugees. The press conference in rally Kao Ye mentioned took place last week on August 21st, 2025, but check out the Pardon Refugees Campaign for updates from the coalition supporting Hmong, Cambodian Laotian, Myan, and other refugees facing deportation. Thanks so much for tuning in to Apex Express. Please check out our website at kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by  Miko Lee, along with Jalena Keene-Lee, Ayame Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar,  Anuj Vaida, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Ravi Grover, and me Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support and have a good night. The post APEX Express – 10.23.25 -And We Become Stateless Again appeared first on KPFA.

ON EPISODE 87 of the Joey Show comedian Joey Avery provides a long overdue seminar on how to hustle, grind, and rise- in reverse order. We dive into some videos about how to really hustle and make it and give a shoutout to the Cambodian dude who embraced that culture to pull off a 15 billion dollar crypto scam by using forced labor. We also dive into the movement built by likely New York Mayor ZOHRAN MAMDAAAANI, the Louvre diamond heist, and the Tiktok drama surrounding music star SOMBR. See Joey live: www.joeyavery.com/live 0:00 Intro: Welcome to the Seminar0:57 The Hustle Rabbit Hole2:06 The $15B Crypto Seizure (pig-butchering 101)5:16 Grind Gospel: Why We're Never Happy12:27 Is Crime Just Grinding19:10 Is Barron Trump a Crypto Scammer or Multidimensional Being22:59 The Zohran Discussion33:45 LinkedIn38:44 How Each Social Media App Breaks Your Brain42:12 TikTok Drama: SOMBR 49:27 Hustle, Grind, Crypto & Vibe 56:20 The Louvre Heist 1:03:33 Outro

The California Report just turned 30! On November 4, we're throwing a party to celebrate, at KQED in San Francisco, with special guests whose stories we've featured on our show. This week we're reprising two of those stories. ⁠How Experimental Composer and Performer Kishi Bashi Brings New Ideas to Life⁠⁠ Kishi Bashi has been releasing music for over a decade. The Santa Cruz-based musician and composer defies genre, and it's hard even for his fans to describe his work – yet they feel deeply connected to his music. For our series on California Composers, we sent reporter Lusen Mendel to one of his shows in San Francisco to see if they could figure it out. ⁠This Stockton Park Is a Weekend Haven for Hmong and Cambodian Bites⁠ On the northern end of Stockton, you'll find Angel Cruz Park. Most weekends it's lined with food vendors, many of them Hmong and Cambodian immigrants. For more than 30 years, this has been a destination for made-to-order dishes, where locals argue over who has the best beef sticks or papaya salad. For her series California Foodways, Lisa Morehouse spent a day at the park, learning about the people behind the food. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this week's show, we bring you a community conversation inspired by the book "When the Bombs Stopped: The Legacy of War in Cambodia." On September 25, 2025, the University of Louisville's Center for Asian Democracy hosted this guest lecture by Dr. Erin Lin from the Department of Political Science at the Ohio State University. Undetonated bombs from the Cambodian campaign of the American War in Vietnam, which ended more than fifty years ago, still affect Cambodian farmers and their land. Dr. Lin's research spotlights the contemporary agricultural implications of unexploded ordinance. Her research topics include legacies of war, economic development, agriculture, and genocide. She also has a keen interest in the relationship between soil conditions and unexploded bombs, which she is currently researching in Cambodia. Watch a video of the lecture at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rd3CflSh5g Learn more at https://louisville.edu/asiandemocracy/ On Truth to Power each week, we bring you community conversations like you won't hear anywhere else! Truth to Power airs every Friday at 9pm, Saturday at 11am, and Sunday at 4pm on Louisville's grassroots, community radio station, Forward Radio 106.5fm WFMP and live streams at https://www.forwardradio.org. If you like what you hear, share it with someone, donate to keep us on-air, and get involved as a volunteer!

The DOJ seized $14B worth of BTC in a crackdown against Cambodia-based Prince Group. U.S. authorities struck the Cambodia-based firm Prince Group as an operator of forced-labor global scam operations. The DOJ took what it said was its largest-ever crypto seizure of 127,271 bitcoin, worth about $14 billion at current value. CoinDesk's Jennifer Sanasie hosts "CoinDesk Daily." - Break the cycle of exploitation. Break down the barriers to truth. Break into the next generation of privacy. Break Free. Free to scroll without being monetized. Free from censorship. Freedom without fear. We deserve more when it comes to privacy. Experience the next generation of blockchain that is private and inclusive by design. Break free with Midnight, visit midnight.network/break-free - Bridge simplifies global money movement. As the leading stablecoin issuance and orchestration platform, Bridge abstracts away blockchain complexity so businesses can seamlessly move between fiat and stablecoins. From payroll providers and remittance companies to neobanks and treasury teams, Bridge powers payments, savings, and stablecoin issuance for thousands – like Shopify, Metamask, Remitly, and more. URL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://hubs.ly/Q03KGbRK0⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - This episode was hosted by Jennifer Sanasie. “CoinDesk Daily” is produced by Jennifer Sanasie and edited by Victor Chen.

In this week's show Patrick Gray and Adam Boileau discuss the week's cybersecurity news, including: FBI intervenes in Scattered Spider Salesforce leaksite Clop loots Oracle E-Biz deployments Plus so much more data extortion.. At least it's not ransomware … we guess? The US still can't decide who's gonna be in charge of NSA & Cybercom Cambodian scam compounds get sanctioned and $15b in crypto is seized NSO gets sold for pocket-lint-grade money Bugs! Redis CVSS 10, Ivanti, Crowdstrike and… Internet Explorer?! zeroday?! In the wild?!!!? This week's episode is sponsored by Stairwell. Founder Mike Wiacek talks about how Stairwell brings VirusTotal-like visibility to private files, and about integrating the insights that brings into your SOC workflow. This episode is also available on Youtube. Show notes FBI takedown banner appears on BreachForums site as Scattered Spider promotes leak | The Record from Recorded Future News Dozens of Oracle customers impacted by Clop data theft for extortion campaign | CyberScoop Well, Well, Well. It's Another Day. (Oracle E-Business Suite Pre-Auth RCE Chain - CVE-2025-61882) Clop is a Big Fish, But Not Worth Hunting - Risky Business Media ShinyHunters Wage Broad Corporate Extortion Spree – Krebs on Security The company Discord blamed for its recent breach says it wasn't hacked Qantas confirms cybercriminals released stolen customer data | The Record from Recorded Future News Red Hat confirms breach of GitLab instance, which stored company's consulting data | CyberScoop Risky Bulletin: Microsoft revamps Edge's "IE Mode" after zero-day attacks - Risky Business Media Teenagers arrested in England over cyberattack on nursery chain Kido | The Record from Recorded Future News Acting US Cyber Command, NSA chief won't be nominated for the job, sources say | The Record from Recorded Future News Layoffs, reassignments further deplete CISA | Cybersecurity Dive Trump's scandalous directive to AG Pam Bondi reached the public by accident Feds sanction Cambodian conglomerate over cyber scams, seize $15 billion from chairman | The Record from Recorded Future News US Congress committee investigating Musk-owned Starlink over Myanmar scam centres | Myanmar | The Guardian Satellites Are Leaking the World's Secrets: Calls, Texts, Military and Corporate Data | WIRED Netherlands invokes special powers against Chinese-owned semiconductor company Nexperia | The Record from Recorded Future News Spyware maker NSO Group confirms acquisition by US investors | TechCrunch Apple Announces $2 Million Bug Bounty Reward for the Most Dangerous Exploits | WIRED Wiz Finds Critical Redis RCE Vulnerability: CVE‑2025‑49844 | Wiz Blog SonicWall admits attacker accessed all customer firewall configurations stored on cloud portal | CyberScoop SonicWall SSLVPN devices compromised using valid credentials | Cybersecurity Dive Issues Affecting CrowdStrike Falcon Sensor for Windows ZDI Drops 13 Unpatched Ivanti Endpoint Manager Vulnerabilities - SecurityWeek Jaguar Land Rover launches phased restart at factories after cyber-attack | Jaguar Land Rover | The Guardian Windows 10 support ends today — here's who's affected and what you need to do

Asia correspondent Adam Hancock spoke to Lisa Owen about a garment factory fire in Bangladesh that has killed more than a dozen people, as well as the US charging a Cambodian man at the centre of an alleged crptocurrency scam and seizing more than $20 billion in Bitcoin.

Welcome to the Daily Compliance News. Each day, Tom Fox, the Voice of Compliance, brings you compliance-related stories to start your day. Sit back, enjoy a cup of morning coffee, and listen in to the Daily Compliance News. All, from the Compliance Podcast Network. Each day, we consider four stories from the business world, compliance, ethics, risk management, leadership, or general interest for the compliance professional. Top stories include: The US forced the Dutch to fire the Chinese CEO of a chip company. (WSJ) Perfecting the Art of Corruption. (The Progressive) The US and UK put sanctions on the Cambodian cyber-scam. (FT) Trump lobbies the Knesset to pardon Netanyahu. (Bloomberg) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode: Government shutdown enters 15th day as both sides direct blame at each other. Trump honors Charlie Kirk with the Presidential Medal of Freedom on what would be his 32nd birthday. Israeli military says one of the bodies handed over by Hamas is not that of a hostage. Madagascar's military coup leader tells AP he is 'taking the position of president.' Dallin H. Oaks, former Utah Supreme Court justice, is selected to lead Mormon church. Mississippi is set to execute a man convicted of raping and killing a college student. House Republicans seek testimony from ex-Trump prosecutor Jack Smith. Trump threatens to pull support for Argentina if its politics don't align with US. Slowdown in US hiring suggests economy still needs rate cuts, Fed's Powell says. US strikes another boat accused of carrying drugs in waters off Venezuela, killing 6, Trump says. Supreme Court rejects Alex Jones' appeal of $1.4 billion defamation judgment in Sandy Hook shooting. US charges Cambodian executive in massive crypto scam and seizes more than $14 billion in bitcoin. D’Angelo, Grammy-winning R&B singer who became an icon with ‘Untitled (How Does It Feel),’ dies. Driver following too close behind van charged in Georgia crash that killed 3 adults, 5 children. Rare October storm brings heavy rain and possible mudslides to Southern California. Pennsylvania man pleads guilty in arson attack at governor’s mansion while Shapiro’s family slept. Stocks wobble as trade tensions between the US and China escalate. Instagram says it's safeguarding teens by limiting them to PG-13 content. A gem on the mound and a record blast power the Dodgers to a 2-0 NLCS advantage, an overtime winner for the Capitals, a contract extension for an NBA coach, another preseason No. 1 for a women’s college hoops powerhouse and the USMNT’s top star is injured. Trump threatens to yank World Cup games from Boston though it's up to FIFA to choose sites. Indonesia finds traces of radioactive element at clove farm. Madagascar's president is ousted in a military coup after weeks of youth-led protests. —The Associated Press About this program Host Terry Lipshetz is managing editor of the national newsroom for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing the daily Hot off the Wire news podcast, Terry conducts periodic interviews for this Behind the Headlines program, co-hosts the Streamed & Screened movies and television program and is the former producer of Across the Sky, a podcast dedicated to weather and climate. Theme music The News Tonight, used under license from Soundstripe. YouTube clearance: ZR2MOTROGI4XAHRX

AP correspondent Julie Walker reports the US charges a Cambodian executive in a massive crypto scam and seizes more than $14 billion in bitcoin.

Ajahn Kassapa discusses How We Develop Ourselves. This session with Ajahn consists of a thirty-minute talk.  Chapters     00:00:00    Homage to the Buddha      00:00:35    Dharma Talk      00:29:10    Blessing Chant     00:31:13    Close  Please support us on Ko-Fi BSWA teachings are available from: · BSWA Teachings · BSWA Podcast Channel · BSWA DeeperDhamma Podbean Channel · BSWA YouTube Teaching retrieved from CBSWA please visit to find out how to attend the monastery in person.

20th July 2025 Ajahn Kassapa discusses The Task at Hand. This session with Ajahn consists of a thirty-minute talk.  Chapters     00:00:00    Dharma Talk      00:29:21    Blessing Chant     00:31:32    Close  Please support us on Ko-Fi   BSWA teachings are available from: · BSWA Teachings · BSWA Podcast Channel · BSWA DeeperDhamma Podbean Channel · BSWA YouTube Teaching retrieved from CBSWA please visit to find out how to attend the monastery in person.

6th July 2025 Ajahn Kassapa discusses Goodness and Path Factors. This session with Ajahn consists of a thirty-minute talk.  Chapters     00:00:00    Homage to the Buddha      00:00:35    Dharma Talk      00:29:56    Blessing Chant     00:32:16    Close  Please support us on Ko-Fi BSWA teachings are available from: · BSWA Teachings · BSWA Podcast Channel · BSWA DeeperDhamma Podbean Channel · BSWA YouTube Teaching retrieved from CBSWA please visit to find out how to attend the monastery in person.

Elizabeth Becker is an award-winning American author and journalist best known for her work in Cambodia and Vietnam. Her singular coverage of Cambodia under Pol Pot is the basis of the French feature film “Rendezvous Avec Pol Pot” (Meeting With Pol Pot in English) that opened in Cannes and has received multiple awards. She began reporting in Cambodia during the Vietnam War. Since then she has covered international affairs for five decades including as a New York Times correspondent, the Senior Foreign Editor at National Public Radio and Washington Post correspondent. She was part of the Times' team that won a Pulitzer Prize for coverage of 9/11. She won two DuPont Columbia awards for NPR coverage of the Rwanda genocide and South Africa's first democratic election. She has reported from all continents, including posts in Phnom Penh and Paris. She is the author of five books including YOU DON'T BELONG HERE: How Three Women Rewrote the Story of War (2021) which tells the hidden story of women who covered the Vietnam War. A best seller, it has been praised as a masterwork. The book received Harvard's Goldsmith Award, the Sperber book Prize and was named the military book of the year by Foreign Affairs. Her 2013 book “OVERBOOKED: The Exploding Business of Travel and Tourism,” also a best seller was an Amazon book of the year and was hailed by Arthur Former as "required reading" about the future of global tourism. In 2019 Conde Nast Traveler named Becker one of the people who has changed how the world travels because of her book and one of the most powerful women in the travel world for emphasizing a conservationist ethic in tourism. She is the author of the now classic “WHEN THE WAR WAS OVER: Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge, “ originally published in 1986, won a Robert F. Kennedy award. The movies “Rendezvous Avec Pol Pot” and “Bophana” by acclaimed Cambodian director Rithy Panh were based on this book. In 2015 she testified as an expert witness at the international war crimes tribunal of the senior Khmer Rouge leaders. She was a fellow at Harvard's Shorenstein Center, holds a degree from the University of Washington and studied language at the Kendriya Hindi Sansthaan in Agra, India. She is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the board of the Oxfam America Advocacy Fund. To learn more about Elizabeth Becker: Website: https://elizabethbecker.com/ IG: ehb47 Author of: YOU DON'T BELONG HERE: How Three Women Rewrote the Story of War OVERBOOKED: The Exploding Business of Travel and Tourism WHEN THE WAR WAS OVER: Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge Revolution

A Singapore-based firm, Changting Network Technology, is now the focus of a police probe, accused of luring jobseekers with false promises of work in Singapore that led instead to a scam-linked resort in Cambodia. Investigations by The Straits Times have uncovered fresh details about the company’s recruitment tactics, its ties to a prominent Cambodian businessman, and how unsuspecting jobseekers were drawn in. On The Big Story, Hongbin Jeong speaks to Aqil Hamzah, Journalist, The Straits Times, to find out more about what they've uncovered about this case. They also discuss how technology is fuelling more sophisticated scams, according to Interpol. If you'd like to read more, check out the articles by The Straits Times:Police looking into S’pore firm luring job seekers to scam-linked Cambodian resorthttps://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/police-looking-into-spore-firm-luring-jobseekers-to-scam-linked-cambodian-resort Criminal syndicates tapping AI to improve scams, human trafficking: Interpolhttps://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/criminal-syndicates-tapping-ai-to-improve-scams-human-trafficking-interpol See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Actor and broadcaster Baz Ashmawy joined Brendan to talk about first discovering funk and disco in Cairo, backpacking, the return of his TV shows ‘The Money List', ‘DIY SOS: The Big Build' and ‘Faithless'. He also chose five songs to reflect his life ranging from Duran Duran to Weezer to Foster The People.

The death of a common criminal, George Floyd gave us violence.  The death of a good man, Charlie Kirk, gave us prayer vigils.  Why?  Is violence inflicted equally by "Left" and "Right"? Turns out, not so much. But who is the "Left" and who is the "Right". In addition to violence, what else does the "Left" advocate? Learn the definition of "Left" and "Right". The French revolution, the Russian revolution, the Chinese revolution, the Cambodian revolution--and the 21st century American revolution? It would be nice if we could simply focus on our 5Fs and ignore the 'ugly world of politics'. But wait! Politics does fit into the 5Fs. So where is this all heading?

Today we'll be talking about a riot response by the Thai military against Cambodians along the border, late night drinkers to be fined for consuming after hours, and a little later a daring daytime robbery of a 2 million baht watch, but don't worry it's Friday we'll cap things off with some feel good news.

In this episode of the World Footy BNF podcast, host Tim Smith converses with Matt Blomberg and Sreylak from the Cambodian Eagles. The discussion delves into the growth of the Cambodian Eagles, beginning with Matt's involvement in 2012, and the subsequent foundation of the women's team in 2016. They talk about the recent Indo-China Cup victory, the club's inclusive philosophy, and the unexpected challenges of maintaining a football club in Cambodia. Furthermore, the conversation touches on the club's efforts in developing local talent, fundraising for the upcoming Asian Championships, and the cultural and social impacts of Aussie Rules football in Cambodia. The episode highlights the dedication and resilience of the Cambodian players and the broader mission to grow footy in Asia. https://www.mycause.com.au/page/372522/help-the-cambodian-eagles-fly?menu=open

Going garden-to-table and how immigration raids are impacting LA's restaurant workers Canning evangelist Kevin West puts his home garden to work in the kitchen Journalist Andrew Lopez reports on how ICE raids are impacting Boyle Heights Rudy Espinoza shares how Inclusive Action supports communities affected by the immigration raids Journalist Kim Severson explores the creation of the perfect peanut Vannak Tan serves Cambodian-style seafood at A&J Seafood from a shack in San Pedro Alvaro Bautista brings dates from Mecca to the farmers market in Santa Monica Connect with Good Food host Evan Kleiman on Substack.

Okay, here's the latest episode! Right after the fighting on the Thai-Cambodian border in late July, I decided to do an episode on the crisis, because to many of you it must have seemed like it came out of nowhere. I called it a mini-episode, on a par with what I recorded in 2023 when I shared my thoughts about ancient aliens, but after doing the research and recording what I had, the result is long enough to call a regular episode. Add to that the times when the real world got in the way (again), and now I'm done, just over a month later. Listen and enjoy, while I get started on the next episode. Cheers!Do you think you would like to become a podcaster on Blubrry? Click here for the details on joining. Enter my promo code, HSEASIA, to let them know I sent you, and you will get the first month's hosting for free!Support this podcast!And here is the Podcast Hall of Fame page, to honor those who have donated already!Visit the Patreon page to become a long-term supporter of the podcast!

WWW.ADVENTUREFREAKSSS.COM Find your Ideal Destination Here:  https://adventurefreaksss.com/ideal-destination-finder/================================= How to work with me: =================================

Coming to you solo from Prague—my favorite city in the world. I went to Berlin last weekend and recorded an episode there with my buddy Jürgen. In this episode, I discuss "the best movie ever," raid of John Bolton's home, and Trump's recollection of the raid on his home.Remember when American propagandists told us Trump would start World War III? Now that he's signed six peace deals in six months, and had 70,000 Cambodian monks call for him to get a Nobel Peace Prize after helping to end fighting between Cambodia and Thailand, it makes you wonder how long we've been told the exact opposite of reality.I also discuss investments, jobs most at risk from AI, a thoughts on marijuana legalization.

Thailand's Constitutional Court has removed suspended Prime Minister Paetongtarn Shinawatra from office, after finding her guilty of ethical misconduct over a controversial phone call with former Cambodian leader Hun Sen.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Important Links: Hmong Innovating Politics: Website | Instagram Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram Bhutanese American Refugee Rights website Transcript Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on KPFA. My name is Swati Rayasam.  Since the onset of the Trump administration, immigrant and refugee communities have been under increased attack, being kidnapped in broad daylight, detained in unsanitary and unsafe conditions, and deported to countries many of them barely know. All without due process or communication to their loved ones and communities. On tonight's episode, we're focusing on a particular segment of our immigrant and refugee community, Hmong and Bhutanese refugees. Both of these targeted communities are stateless with no land to call their own, and their deportation carries the very real danger of disappearance and death. Robin Gurung from Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong innovating Politics, discuss their community and personal refugee stories, and talk about the intersection of the US' deeply broken immigration and criminal legal systems, otherwise known as crimmigration. We also get to hear from the wives of two detained refugees, one Bhutanese and one Hmong, who are currently fighting to keep their families together and to protect their loved ones from the dangers of deportation as stateless people. I also want to note because this is a rapidly developing situation, that this episode was recorded on August 13th, 2025, and is being released on August 28th, 2025. For the most recent updates, please go to bhutaneserefugeerights.org or check out the Pardon Refugees campaign. Now, here's Miko. Miko: Welcome to Apex Express. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm so glad to bring you all together in this time. I'm wondering if I could ask you each to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about the community your organization serves and what you do, and let's start with Kao Ye.  Kao Ye: Hello everyone, and thank you for making space- my name is Kao Ye Tao. I use she her pronouns, and I work as the director of policy and partnerships with an organization called Hmong Innovating Politics. We are an organization that serves Hmong youth and families in Sacramento and Fresno, which holds two of our largest Hmong American communities in California. And our work with Hmong youth and families is really about developing their leadership to organize towards social justice and to get the resources that their communities deserve. Miko: Thank you, Kao Ye and Robin, could you please introduce yourself? Robin: Sure. My name is Robin Gurung. I use he, him, his, I'm from the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community. I live in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. my role at Asian Refugees United is the co-founder and the co-executive director. We have our program in California and Pennsylvania. California programs are, are serving Asian diaspora and then, Pennsylvania programs are focused serving the Nepal speaking Bhutanese community. We work in the intersection of arts and healing, storytelling, civic engagement, leadership development. Thank you. Miko: Thanks Robin and I am your host Miko Lee, lead producer at Apex Express. And all of us are part of a network called AACRE Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, which is a network of progressive Asian American groups. So you all work with refugee populations. I'm wondering if you could tell a little bit more about the backstory of your community, and also if you feel comfortable about how you personally came to be a refugee in the United States. And, Robin, I'd love to start with you on that one. Robin: Sure. My community is Nepali speaking, Bhutanese refugee community. And we are ethnically Nepali, which means culture wise and language wise we speak Nepali and follow the Nepali culture tradition. Our ancestors like maybe in 18 hundreds, 19 hundreds migrated from Nepal to Bhutan and became the citizen of that country. And most people don't know about Bhutan, it's a very tiny country between China and India. And, if people know about Bhutan, then people know it through the cross national happiness concept, Bhutan is considered the happiest country in the world. So our ancestors were in mostly in the southern area of Bhutan for generations, they became the citizen. They had their own home, their own land. And then later, 1980s, early nineties, there was a policy by the government of Bhutan, which is the monarchy government system- king rules the country. They brought a policy called One Nation, One People Policy. Which means all different groups of people would have to follow the same culture, same religion, kind of follow the same dress code and because of that policy all people were forced to stay away from following our own culture or our own religion, which, most of our folks were Hindu. Our people protested against it and because of that, the government expelled over a hundred thousand of our community members. And, they expelled to India and then from like India wouldn't allow us to stay and we had to resettle in Nepal in seven different refugee camps under different international agencies like U-N-H-C-R and other agencies. Miko: And then Robin, can you tell a little bit about your personal story and how you came here? Robin: Yeah. Yeah. So 1992 is when my family had to leave Bhutan. And at that time I was three years old. I remember growing up in a refugee camp in Nepal, from three years until I was 23 years. So 20 years of my life I was in a refugee camp in Nepal. And in 2012, I came to US through the refugee resettlement program introduced to our camps in 2008, and through it US agreed to resettle 60,000 of our committee members. By 2017, I think US has resettled about 70 to 80,000 of our Bhutanese community members.   Miko: Thank you so much for sharing. Kao Ye I wonder if you could talk about your community and the refugee resettlement program that your community was a part of. Kao Ye: The Hmong American community, or just the Hmong community overall, is a group that's indigenous to East and Southeast Asia. And through our ancient history, we've always been a stateless, people fighting for our autonomy to live to practice our customs and our culture. And particularly where we come into this history of refugee is during the Vietnam War where many Hmong people, alongside other ethnic groups in Laos, were caught in the crossfire of the United States conflict in Southeast Asia. And so with the Vietnam War. The Hmong as well as many other ethnic communities that lived, in the hills and the mountains were recruited in covert operations by the CIA to fight back against the Vietnamese, the Northern Vietnamese communist forces, as well as the Putet Lao. And so once the US withdrew from Southeast Asia, it created a vacuum of conflict and violence that our people had to escape from in order to survive. And so after the Vietnam War in 1975, we saw the mass displacement of many Southeast Asian ethnic communities, including Hmong families. And that is where my history starts because my parents were born in Laos and because of this war, they fled to Thailand refugee camps and lived there for a few years until they were able to come to the United States in 1992. And I'm actually I'm a child of refugees and so what I know about this part of my history comes from the stories of my grandparents who raised me as well as what little I could learn in the textbooks of public education. And so it wasn't actually until going to college and. Being able to access more of this literature, this history that I really learned about what the United States had done in Southeast Asia and the ramifications of that for myself and my family and so many others, refugees that. Have to have had to resettle in the United States. And so it's definitely a history that runs very close, because we have relatives that live through that refugee experience. And so it is very well and alive. And so as we now approach this conversation around ICE and deportations, it really is a reminder of the trauma that our people face, but are still facing as a people that have been seen as disposable to the United States government. Miko: Thanks, Kao Ye. Let's talk a little bit more about that. But first I wanna say, did either of you ever hear about refugees in your textbooks? I never did. So I'm wondering if, you said you learned a little bit about that from textbooks. Was that something you learned in public education. Kao Ye: I did not learn about refugees or refugees experience. I learned about the war and as a Hmong kid it brought me so much delight to try to scroll through the history books just to see if Hmong people were mentioned. And even then the refugee experience was not ever something that we talked about. I felt like definitely not in, in high school. I think it was college really, that then started to articulate those terms and that Southeast Asian identity, that is really where I think I also became politicized in that. Miko: Yeah, because I think in textbooks there might be a little section on the Vietnam War, but it does not talk about the, all the Southeast Asian ethnic peoples that actually fought in the war. We have to dig that information out on our own, but I wanna move us to what is happening right now. So the Trump administration has created. Culture of fear among immigrants and refugees, these ICE raids and disappearances. It is so intense and using immigrants as a fear tool to prop up white supremacy is so blatant right now. I'm wondering if you can each talk about, how this administration's policies are impacting your communities. And, Robin, let's start with you. What is happening right now? I know since the end of March, can you share a little bit about what's been happening with Bhutanese Americans? Robin: Sure. Sure. So our people were settled to this country with the hope that this is going to be our home. But starting March of this year, with the new policies of this current administration, we started seeing abrupt, ICE arrest in our communities. People were picked up from home, their workplaces, and from their ICE, check-ins. And, since March, within I would say two to three months, more than 72 of our community members were picked up, mostly from Pennsylvania and then Ohio, and also from other states like New York, Georgia, North Dakota. So until now, we have, the records of at least 50 people who have been deported to Bhutan and at least 72 who are detained. So more than 30 people are [at risk] of getting detained. The nature of the ICE arrests that we have seen is we don't know whether the due processes were followed. They made it so hard for the families to look for attorneys, and also to track their family members. Within days family members would find their loved ones disappeared, and then they wouldn't be able to talk to them they wouldn't be able to track them and provide the support that they needed. So for us as a community organization we did not anticipate this and we were not prepared for this. And, and we didn't have the infrastructure to really address this, right? So it became such challenging work for us. Like within days we had to mobilize our people. We had to mobilize our teams to help family members with legal support, emotional support, mobilize our community members to update what's happening with this situation. The rapid response work, know your rights clinics that we had to set up. So on one hand it's the detention and deportation in the US and on the other hand, when our people were deported to Bhutan, what we're seeing is within 24 hours, they are being expelled from Bhutan to India, and then from India because India wouldn't accept them as well, they had to enter Nepal because for most of these Deportee, they're very young, they were born in refugee camps, and for most of them, the only known land is Nepal. Right. And they had to enter Nepal without documentation. And then some of them were found in refugee camps. And most of them are unknown. Like they're, they have disappeared. Miko: So that is so much over the last few months that ARU has had to step in and take a leading, role in this situation that has impacted the Bhutanese community from focusing on wellness and youth development to suddenly translating materials into Nepali, translating, know Your Rights materials into Nepali, hosting all these different events, the work that you have been doing is really powerful. I wonder if you could share with us the story of Mohan Karki, who is a community member that's currently detained in Michigan. Robin: Sure. So, Mohan Karki is now in detention in Michigan and he's a community member member who lived in Ohio. So he was detained by ICE during his regular ICE check-in , I believe in April, they detained him and then he was taken for deportation. And last minute, the families and the community had to come together and then appeal the deportation. Right now he's in Michgan detention center and his wife, who was pregnant and had due date, when Mohan was being deported on June 10, is now fighting day and night to stop the deportation and also to bring Mohan home. Right now, Asian Refugees United and other community partners, like AWPAL, Asian Law Caucus are working together to support Mohan's family, to bring Mohan home and also running a, GoFund me fundraiser, to help the family pay the legal fees. Miko: Thanks Robin. And we're gonna listen to Tikas story right now. Tika Basnet: Hi, my name is Tika Basnet I'm from Ohio and I'm fighting my husband deportation case.  So on April seven, a lot of people told us not to go to the ICE office, but my husband wanna follow the rules, he wanna go there. We went to the Westerville office inside And we sit down, we talk to each other. Nothing will go wrong. And suddenly ICE told us to come inside and they told us that my husband got travel documents from Bhutan. I told them like it is not safe for my husband to get deport in Bhutan, all the Bhutanese people run away in 1990s due to the ethnic cleansing and if my husband get deported in Bhutan, he will either gonna get killed, tortured, disappeared, imprisoned, I don't know what will happen, but they did not listen to me. So they detained my husband and I came at the parking lot and his mom saw me coming alone. So they start crying and I told them like, Mohan is gone and this is the last time I think I'm gonna see my husband. the time that my husband was taken away from Butler County on June 10 I was 41 weeks pregnant. I was supposed to deliver on, June 10. But no, I told the doctor I change my delivery time. I am not gonna go now like I need to fight for my husband. Like, When Bhutanese people started coming here in 2007. Third party promise us that in here in United States, we will get our identity. That identity will never taken away. They promise us that the way Bhutan take our identity, they will not gonna do that. we thought that this is our home. We thought that having a green card, having a citizenship, it is permanently, but no, we are, we all are wrong. And that identity is taken away within a second. And we became stateless again. So, my husband, Mohan Karki he just arrived in the United States he been here less than two years when the incident happened. He did not understand the law. He did not understand the culture. He did not know anything.  My husband he was only 17 years old, high school student coming from school to home. On the way to reach their apartment, there is one private house. They are just trying to go to the shortcut from the backyard. So some neighbor call 9 1 1. And that only one mistake lead to deportation.  The place that we come from, there is no boundaries. In Nepal, we are allowed to go anybody property We are allowed to walk somebody else house and because of the cultural difference, he's paying price right now.  At that time, nobody can speak English. They cannot understand what police were saying and Nepali interpreter told my husband that if you say I'm guilty, you'll out of prison soon. But if you did not say I'm guilty, you'll end up in prison for 20 to 25 years. High school student he's scared he just say, I'm guilty, and he did not know what is deportation mean. He did not know what he was signing. Nobody informed him what he was signing. That signing was deportation. What happened in 2013 is impacting us in 2025 and still he wish he did not cross somebody else backyard at that time. He wish he knew that he wasn't allowed to cross somebody else's backyard. I don't know what will our future is gonna be, but I hope that he gets second chance. His community love him. He love people. He was working as a truck driver. He paid taxes. He was supporting his parent. He was supporting me. My daughter deserve to have a father. You know, she's just one month. But now the dream that I was hoping one day I'm gonna build with my husband that is taken away and I'm left alone with this child. I already went through a lot without him, i'm the only one that fighting for my husband case. The deportation is not only breaking one family, but it is breaking everybody, the community and the family. And I hope that people can support me so I can fight for my husband case. Like I really need so many attorney. I need criminal attorney to open up his 2013 case. And I have wonderful, wonderful attorney, my husband get stay off removal, but that is not guarantee my husband can get deport anytime. The attorney fee are really expensive and he still needs support. The US made bhutanese people a promise of home. We belong here. Stop the detention and deportation. Stop deporting Bhutanese people. We are stateless. We don't have country, don't have a home. This is our home. US is our home. We belong here. Miko: Of the 72 people, Mohan is the first Bhutanese refugee that we actually have a stay of release on, as Robin was saying earlier, most of the folks were moved from state to state, so you can't really get a lawyer in that time. And as we all know, nonprofit immigration lawyers are under a lot of stress because of the attack of this administration. So it makes it incredibly complicated, let alone the legal fees that it costs to help support people going through this. And right now, Mohan has a stay on his, deportation and the lawyer that they do have is drafting up a letter to be able to release him into the community and also overturn his original case that happened as a minor in Georgia, which was a ridiculous case where he was leaving school, early high school, first year in the country, leaving high school early, and walked with his friends across a backyard. And the neighbor that they walked through their yard called the police, and they arrested him along with his friends for trespassing, they gave him paperwork that he didn't even understand. He signed it along with a interpreter they gave him false information to say he'd be locked up for 25 years, or if he signed this papers, that would be fine. He could go and what the papers said was it changed his charge into a felony and had him sign a letter of deportation. So this is part of the failure of our American legal system that we're not providing adequate information. It is a lack of due process. Thankfully, the work that Asian Law Caucus and United States of Stateless and other community activists are doing to call this out and help work with us is really critical. I wanna turn now to Kao Ye how this administrations is impacting Hmong refugees, and how is it similar or different to the experiences that Robin is describing for the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community? Kao Ye: I echoed many of the sentiments and the challenges that Robin shared around what we as nonprofit, grassroots organizations are having to build and grapple with just the limited infrastructure that we have to deal with the current ICE disappearances and deportation and all the support that's needed for the families. And so thank you Robin, for sharing that. I wanted to start broad a little bit because I think that this Trump administration is happening in the backdrop of the 50th year commemoration of the end of the wars in Southeast Asia and the refugee resettlement. We had over 1.1 million Southeast Asians resettle to the United States, the largest immigration resettlement, in American history. And so this year brings so many complexities, I think as a Southeast Asian community where there is a level of looking back at policies that have impacted us and have failed, but also looking forward what is the community that we are building together to move and progress together. And so there are those complexities, I think as the fact that it's the 50th year and like, this is what we're dealing with. This is the trauma that we are grappling with. And so I wanted to put that out front and center because even I think within our communities , there is no necessarily enlightenment in terms of how we talk about what is happening to our people and how they're getting deported unjustly. So that is why it is so important to have this dialogue within our communities as well as the solidarity that we also share with the Bhutanese community and other immigrant groups too. I think that in many of our Southeast Asian communities, their reasons for deportations is very tied to past convictions, and so this is the intersection between criminal law and immigration law. And it makes it complex because our people are now having to consult not just an immigration lawyer, but like criminal attorney so that they could really assess like what kind of relief they can get in order to mitigate, impending deportations. And then also miko you had shared about the lack of adequate legal service or representation because many of these folks, right, that have had these convictions that have now served their time and are simply members of our community that make our community rich. They are now having to revisit removal orders that they signed, thinking that, oh, nothing necessarily was gonna happen because they don't have a repatriation agreement. So, in our community, there was never a thought that we were going to be deported back to our home country because of that policy. And so that is a big contributing factor as to why the Hmong community, we don't have that infrastructure to really support our members who have gone through the criminal justice system and now have those removal orders. And so HIP, as well as many other grassroots. Sadly we did have to scramble to put this know your rights information together because again, I don't think that there was visibility in the need for us in this conversation around immigration Southeast Asians are a segment of our API community and so it just, I think, multiplied the invisibility that we already faced as a group of Southeast Asians. And so the support was definitely not there. And, to Robin's point, we did our best to try to put this information together to our community, starting with the Know Your Rights. And then we also realized like it was more complex than that, and that the legal supports were so necessary because everyone's case was different. I think what we're still dealing with now is that there's always been a lack of trust between our community members and government entities and nonprofit organizations. And so, if someone is dealing with the situation, they wanna go to, a partner that they trust to help them, even if they're not necessarily equipped to do that work, is that they're going to only the people that they trust because there is such a big mistrust. And so I think that, there is still the level of trust building that is needed to be done within our community so that folks feel comfortable to come to us or come to other people for support. And I think what makes me feel emotional is just when I hear about community members feeling hopeless and just feeling like there's nothing that they can do and that level of disempowerment to me, I think is something that is real. And I can't say that we can't combat it, but I think that it is about being able to find different outlets of support for them. Miko: Thank you for lifting that up. And just , in terms of the numbers, over three months, March, April and May, there were about 72 Bhutanese Americans that have been detained. And this is just kind of starting up with the Hmong community. So we had 15 that were detained from Minnesota and another 10 right now are being held in Michigan. And we also see this happening with Vietnamese, Laotian, Cambodians, and Myan folks. All of these folks as Kao Ye you're pointing out, have had common threads, which is connections with the system, with the criminal legal/ justice system and crimmigration is something that in the AACRE network we've been talking about and working on, which is really about the education to prison, to deportation pipeline. And one of the things that this administration had talked about is, let's get rid of all the murderers and the rapists. You know, this like scare language about people that are convicted criminals, let's get rid of them all. But the fact of the matter. The vast majority of all of these people are people like Mohan Karki, a cultural misunderstanding that happened when he was a child. Like Lou Yang, who is Hmong refugee detained in Michigan right now. Somebody who was involved in something as a kid, but has since then become a leader in the community. So let's take a moment and listen to the spouse of Lou Yang, a Hmong refugee detained in Michigan in July. Anne Vu: My name is Anne Vu and I come before you today with a heart full of hope. Sorrow and a plea for justice. I am a proud American, a mother of six, the daughter of Hmong refugees who would gain their citizenship, and the wife of a man called Lou Yang, who is now detained and faced with potential deportation from the only country that he's ever known. Lou has lived in Michigan since October, 1979. He was born stateless in a refugee camp in Nongkai Thailand and his family fled Laos due to persecution. His father and like many others, served with the United States force during the Vietnam War as part of the Secret War, recruited by CIA in Laos, a conflict that most Americans do not know has happened. The Hmong were recruited by the CIA as part of the Secret War to help America during the Vietnam War. But when the war ended and the US withdrew, we were as the Hmongs declared enemy of the state. What followed was genocide, polarization and persecution by the state, and it was because of our alliance, the promise made by the US government that the Hmong refugees were legally settled here under certain migration of refugee laws and acts. And Lou arrived here as a young, toddler in infancy. In 1997, he was arrested on an alleged accomplice in an attempt home invasion, second degree. He was in the vehicle at the time. He never entered the home. He literally was still a juvenile at that time. He had a court appointed attorney and was advised to take a plea without being told it would affect his immigration status for the rest of his life. This is the reality of our immigration system – long, complex, confusing and devastating, unforgiving. It is not built for people like us, people like Lou, people who have served their time, rebuilt their lives and have nowhere else to go. We've walked this legal path, we've stayed together in the lines, and yet we are here punished today. Lou has no other charges, no current legal issues, no history of violence. He is not a flight risk. He is not a danger to our public safety. He is a father, my husband, a son, a son-in-law, a grandson and a brother to many, and our leader and a provider to our community, and to my family. He renews his work authorization and follows every rule asked of him no matter how uncertain the future felt. Together, we've raised six beautiful children. They're all proud Americans. Lou has contributed to Michigan's economy for decades working in our automotive industry and now he is gone and all that he is built is unraveling and the community is heartbroken. We didn't come from wealth. We didn't have every opportunity handed to us because we didn't come seeking a land of opportunity. We came here because of survival. We had to build from the ground up. But the most important thing was Lou and I, we had each other. We had our families, our friends, and our neighbors. We had a shared commitment to build a better life, grounded in love, respect, and purpose. And somehow that's still not enough. For years, we were told like other Hmong families that Laos in Thailand would never take us back. And that has changed. In June, 2025 the US imposed a partial travel ban on Laos, citing visa overstays, and lack of deportation cooperation. And in response, Laos began issuing these documents under pressure. Today over 4,800, including Hmong, Myan, and the other ethnic minorities are facing removal to Laos and to many other countries, many have never stepped foot in a country that they are now being sent to. Lou is Stateless like many others that is detained with him. None of these countries recognize him. He was born in the Thailand refugee camp, it does not recognize him nor qualify him for any sort of Thai citizenship and I'll tell you guys right now if forced to return, he will face danger because of his family's deep ties to the CIA and United States military. Deporting him turns him, a civil servant and respected community leader, into a political casualty, it would be a grave and irreversible injustice. To deport him now is to punish him to death. Once again, 50 years later, as we celebrate resilience this year across the nation, we are now celebrating a fight within our own grounds, right here in United States, right here in Michigan. We're now fighting the same fight within our own country. Thousands of Southeast Asian Americans, many that entered legally admitted as refugees are being deported for decade old offenses they've longed paid for. America is our country. All we ask is the right to stay in the home that we've helped to build and work hard to protect. We are not seeking special treatment. We are asking for justice, compassion, and a second chance in this country to claim what we believe in. To Governor Whitmer and members of Congress and all elected officials, please help bring Lou and the many others home. Urge ICE and DHS to release him on humanitarian grounds. Help his case. Help us preserve the integrity of our laws and the dignity of our families. And to the public allies and the media. Please call our elected officials. Please call these offices.  Please share Lou's story. We need voices. Voices louder than ours alone. It is hard times you guys. It is real. And I speak to you from the bottom of my heart. Please help me and our families in the many that are suffering. This is our home. These are our children. This is my husband and this is our fight. Let him come home. Let our families be whole again, and let America keep its promise. Thank you guys for hearing me. Miko: Lou Young is a community leader. Michigan, who actually runs a nonprofit in support of Hmong folks in that community, and is targeted and also has a stay of removal. So we're doing a targeted campaign for both of these folks, Lou Yang and Mohan Karki, to be able to get them released to overturn their original convictions and they also have spouses that are telling their stories and telling the impact these detentions have had. Because while this current administration talks about getting rid of criminals, what they are actually doing is breaking apart families and community. Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. Coming up is Deporting the Pilgrim from the Anakbayan Long Beach Mayday Mix tape.   Swati Rayasam: That was please be strong, featuring Hushed, loudmouth and Joe handsome. And before that was deporting the pilgrim from the Unec Bayan Long Beach Mayday Mixtape. Now back to the show. Miko:  I wanna shift us a little bit to talking about Asian american representation in the larger fabric of immigration justice in the United States. Mostly many of our Asian communities have been like isolated, not really involved in the broader immigration movement. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the difficulty and nuance of bringing your community struggle to the forefront because many of us heard about the Venezuelans and the Mexicans that have been deported and what was going on, but we don't hear as much about these stories of our Asian sisters and brothers. I wonder if one of you could give voice to that. Robin: Before going there can I add something to  Miko: of course.  Robin: crimmigration conversation? So when you all are sharing about that, I was thinking about, the justice system in this country and what we are seeing right now is a broken justice system. Like you said, Miko, where families are separated where families are broken, and what I don't understand is, when, let's say your loved one gets into trouble, makes a mistake, and gets into a trouble, then, as a human being, like, don't you want your loved ones to rebuild their lives? Like Yes, of course there is a system that you have to follow, the laws that you have to follow, but at the end, I think we all want our loved ones to come back, rebuild their lives, right? And what we're seeing in this country is they're constantly breaking the families. And I don't see how we are going to build a better future when we are constantly, hurting the families. And in the cases of detention and deportation, what we're seeing is the double punishment. Like the mistakes that they had made, but then throughout their life, they have to go through that, a continuous cycle of being punished. And not just the individuals, but their family members have also go through the challenges, the suffering, right? And in the case of Bhutanese from double punishment to double expulsion to this, the state of being statelessness. Right? So what kind of future we are imagining when an individual has to go through that continuous cycle of being punished and not having the opportunity to rebuild their lives. So that's a big question mark that I think, we all need to think about. To your later question around my community and the larger Asian American context or the national context. My community is relatively new to this country. We lived, almost two decades in a refugee camp, which was a enclosed camp. And our lives were dependent on foreign aids like UNHCR or ILWF. Pretty much I would say we had our own world over there. And for us to work outside the refugee camp was illegal. There was no laws that gave us the permission to work outside. So we were not pretty much exposed to the outer world. So for us to come to US was a big step. Which means pretty much from basic every day stuffs like, you know, using a bathroom, using a kitchen, taking a bus. All of those were foreign for us. So for our community to really tap into the education system, the political landscape of this country. And also like the experience of being expelled for voicing our, our opinions, for fighting for our rights. Right? So for us, for our community to kind of step in into the politics, it's like re-traumatizing ourselves. I would say there are a lot of barriers, multi-layered barriers for our community members to really tap into the larger political, like socio political landscape, from language barriers to culture barriers to education, to pretty much everything. So right now, the way our committee has been being attacked. It's a surprise to the community. And also it is like kind of traumatizing the community and taking us back to the same place of feeling, insecure, feeling like we don't have a home. And we did hope that this is legally, this is going to be a home. Because after coming to the US most of us became the legal citizens of this country and we started rebuilding our lives. Now it's kind of like going back to the same circle of statelessness. Miko: Thank you for sharing about that. Kao Ye, would you like to add to that? Kao Ye: When I think of the Hmong American community and even the Southeast Asian community and why the narratives of what is happening still feels very invisible. I think of how our community, we were assimilating for survival. And I speak on that as a child of my refugee parents and siblings where growing up we were taught to, listen, not speak out, not cause trouble. Go through the system, listen to authority, listen to law enforcement. And because of that, I feel it's shaped a culture of fear. Fear to dissent and fear to speak out because we care so much about the stability of our families. And we wanted to protect ourselves, because of everything we've gone through with the war. And we are finding that it's been challenging for our community members to come forward with their stories. Honestly, we're still sitting on that and we're still kind of sitting through like, why is there that tension? You know, I feel like folks are going through a lot and even folks have, our impacted loved ones, but they're afraid to tell their story because of fear of of retaliation. And so I think that there is a level of, I think that lack of even psychological safety, but real, physical, real financial safety that people have. And I think that being a factor to the assimilation, but also this facade of like the American dream and like if we don't just disrupt, if we don't speak out, we will be protected. And, white supremacy, right? Like we will be okay. And it's a facade because we know that because our communities are the ones getting kidnapped and getting deported. Right. And so I think there is that fear, but there's also recognition of this now, this facade that the silence doesn't protect us and that there is a real need for us to really, be strong in speaking out, not just for our SEA siblings that are impacted, but for all of our immigrant groups, even the Bhutanese community, right. That's been impacted during this time. And so I, yeah, I think it is that multi-layered experience of being a Southeast Asian refugee community on top of, being part of this AAPI umbrella. AAPI we are not homogenous. We all have very unique histories as to how we have dealt with the systems in this country and how we came into this country. And so I think it's been challenging to make space for those nuances. And at the end of the day, I still see the interconnections that we all have together too. And so, I think it's the willingness to make space for those different stories. And I am finding that more of our ethnic media, our smaller news outlets are more willing to cover those stories as opposed to, these larger mainstream outlets. Like they're not covering those stories, but we are. Miko: Thank you. Oh, both of you have brought up so much today about our failed criminal justice system, about us punishing people as opposed to rehabilitating people and punishing them more than once. We brought up questions around statelessness and the impact that it has, and I just recently learned that the United States does not have any policy on Statelessness. So one of the things that this coalition of folks is trying to do is to get a congressional hearing to help the United States develop policy around statelessness, because it is actually our responsibility and our duty to do that. The other thing I hear you both talking about is this good immigrant, bad immigrant trope, which we've heard of a lot, but I think that's also very much connected to why so many members of our communities don't wanna speak out because this connection with, you know, quote unquote criminal history might be something that's shameful. And I'm wondering if you both see that as a divide mostly between elders in the community and younger folks. Robin, do you wanna talk about that? Robin: Yeah. I mean, initially when we were mobilizing our community members to fight against the the unjust and unfair detention and deportation, this issue around the perception around good immigrants and bad immigrants became one of the main topic of discussion. We had to deal with people, and mostly elders, but I would say some young folks as well, who would pull themselves back on speaking against this issue because for them people who are being deported or detained are criminals and they deserve this kind of mindset. And not being able to see the larger picture of how the administration is targeting the immigrant and the refugee population of this country and really trying to dismantle community power, right? So, yes, it is a challenge that we are, we're going through and I think it's going to be quite a bit of work, to really build solidarity within our own communities. Kao Ye: I feel that the divide in the Hmong community is stemming from class and education. I feel as though when folks are articulating, regurgitating these justifications of the bad immigrant as to why folks should be deported it's folks that maybe kind of made it in their lives and now they're comparing themselves to folks that were not in that situation. And there is this growing within our community as well, where some folks are getting that education, getting, good jobs. But so much of our community, we still suffer from poverty, right? And so, I think that has been really interesting to witness the level of division because of class, because of income and also the education piece. Because oftentimes when folks are feeling this, it comes from a place of ignorance as well. And so that's why I think the education piece is so important. I actually feel though our elders are more understanding because these are their children that are being separated from them. And Robin's point is that when we have loved ones that go through the system, we just want them to rebuild their lives and be self-sufficient. And I feel like those are the values that I grew up in my community where our parents were always about keeping the family together to a fault, you know? And so they don't want separation. They just want us to be well and to do well, and to turn our lives around. And so, I feel strongly that our elders, they do understand that the importance of giving this opportunity for us to, to stay together and turn our lives around. Miko: Thank you so much, both of you for joining me here today to talk about this important conversation. I'm wondering if you could provide our audience with how they could find out more about what is going on and what are next steps for our audience members. Robin, let's start with you. Robin: Yeah. I just wanted to add what, Kao Ye talked about. I do agree the patterns around the divide is based on class. And I do see that in the community, and not just the class, but in our community class and caste, I would say. And in terms of the class, there were some instances where we had to deal with even the highly educated like PhD holders kind of, questioning us like, you know, what we are advocating for, and, I couldn't understand like, I couldn't relate the education, the title, the degree that he holds and the perception around this issue. Right. So, I just wanted to echo that. So, in terms of our work and Asian Refugees United, our website is www.asianrefugees.org And you can find us in our Instagram, Facebook, Asian Refugees United. Miko: And you can also get latest news about what's happening at bhutaneserefugeerights.com. Yeah. And Kao Ye how can folks find out more about your work? Kao Ye: Right now HIP is part of a statewide network in California called the Pardon Refugees Campaign, where we are really pushing Governor Newsom to pardon all refugees, not just Southeast Asians because of everything that we talked about, about how our families, they deserve to stay together. And so, I don't think we have a website up yet, but you can follow this campaign with us. We will be having a rally and press conference, coming up soon, in the next few weeks. And so, I would say that please follow us in that work where we are really moving in coalition with all of our uh, grassroots partners to advocate for our loved ones that are currently being impacted. Miko: Thank you so much, Robin Gurung, Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong Innovating Politics. Thank you so much for being with us here today, and I hope you listeners out there take action to keep our families together, to keep our people in the communities as loved ones where they belong. Thank you all. Have a great night. Swati Rayasam: I'm so grateful that Miko was able to talk to Robin and Kao Ye. And for those who missed it, visit bhutanese refugee rights.org for the most recent updates on the Bhutanese refugees. The press conference in rally Kao Ye mentioned took place last week on August 21st, 2025, but check out the Pardon Refugees Campaign for updates from the coalition supporting Hmong, Cambodian Laotian, Myan, and other refugees facing deportation. Thanks so much for tuning in to Apex Express. Please check out our website at kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by  Miko Lee, along with Jalena Keene-Lee, Ayame Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar,  Anuj Vaida, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Ravi Grover, and me Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support and have a good night.   The post APEX Express – August 28, 2025 – “And we became stateless again” appeared first on KPFA.

Hear stories about standing up for human rights around the world and struggling for truth, accountability and justice. _____________________________ Subscribe to The Maverick Show's Monday Minute Newsletter where I email you 3 short items of value to start each week that you can consume in 60 seconds (all personal recommendations like the latest travel gear I'm using, my favorite destinations, discounts for special events, etc.). Follow The Maverick Show on Instagram ____________________________________ Etelle Higonnet joins Matt for a wine night from Copenhagen, and begins by talking about her role as a founding member of the Sustainable Wine Round table.  She then describes her family background, her experience moving around growing up, and how her passion for social justice developed.  Etelle talks about her college experience at Yale and what compelled her to move to Guatemala to work with refugees and displaced people.  She describes a scary encounter there with masked gunmen and her eventual publication a book on the U.S.-backed genocide in Guatemala.  Etelle then talks about spending time in Chiapas, Mexico, supporting a lawsuit brought by indigenous women, and attending a speech by Subcommandante Marcos, the spokesperson of the Zapatista movement. Next, she describes her experience working for Human Rights Watch and investigating crimes of sexual violence in the Ivory Coast after the 2007 civil war.  Etelle also talks about her time living in Iraq documenting testimonies from victims of political violence, her human rights work with Amnesty International in Sierra Leone, and her role in helping establish the Cambodian war crimes tribunal.  She reflects on the history and legacy of French colonialism, the need for post-colonial justice systems, and shares some human rights victories in Ivory Coast and Sierra Leone.  Finally, Etelle offers her insights, strategies, and encouragement to everyone working to stop the genocide in Palestine.  FULL SHOW NOTES WITH DIRECT LINKS TO EVERYTHING DISCUSSED ARE AVAILABLE HERE. ____________________________________ See my Top 10 Apps For Digital Nomads See my Top 10 Books For Digital Nomads See my 7 Keys For Building A Remote Business (Even in a space that's not traditionally virtual) Watch my Video Training on Stylish Minimalist Packing so you can join #TeamCarryOn  See the Travel Gear I Use and Recommend See How I Produce The Maverick Show Podcast (The equipment, services & vendors I use) ____________________________________ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Please Leave a Rating and Review. It really helps the show and I read each one personally.  You Can Buy Me a Coffee. Espressos help me produce significantly better podcast episodes! :)

t Gino Chapman to share their life-changing experience volunteering with HairAid in Cambodia. Both on their first HairAid project, Corey and Gino open up about teaching haircutting skills to people in critical poverty—from community centers to prisons—and how the week reshaped their perspectives on service, resilience, and the power of the hair industry.You'll hear:How Corey and Gino got involved with HairAid and prepared for the tripWhat it's like teaching six haircuts in four days with limited resources and language barriersThe impact of giving students a certificate that can change their futureEmotional highlights, including meeting graduates now running their own salonsCultural experiences in Cambodia: Angkor Wat at sunrise, Kulin Mountain waterfalls, and an elephant sanctuaryWhy “presence means surrender” became Corey's biggest takeawayThe resilience of the Cambodian people and the lasting friendships formedWhether you're a hairstylist looking to give back or someone curious about humanitarian work, this conversation is a powerful reminder that your skills can change lives—yours included.Links & Resources:HairAid International – Learn how to get involvedPast Episode: Tabatha Coffey on HairAid – Corey's pre-trip conversation with Tabatha about her own HairAid experience https://open.spotify.com/episode/1TVW7BenW1TdfxxO0GYQV9?si=VgIMjD9SRf2HHiYJAj-q_gGabby's Beauty Launchpad press release on HairAid Cambodia https://www.beautylaunchpad.com/business/news/news/22945962/hairdustrys-corey-gray-joins-hair-aid-to-teach-haircuts-and-create-careers-in-cambodiaFollow the Hosts & Guest:Corey Gray – @hairdustryGabby Bach – @beautylaunchpadGino Chapman – @genochapmanYour Day Off Podcast is available on all podcast platforms – Season 8 Episode 35 – Gino Chapman – HairAid Cambodia 2025 

Imagine one day waking up and being told to forget everything you had learned in school. Discovering that key industries in the economy had been eliminated. Learning that culture and history had been reset to year zero. And, worst of all learning that you and your friends and family were to be killed or sent to concentration camps. This is the horrific reality Dr. Sara Pol-Lim was faced with as a young girl in 1970s Cambodia. The regime of the time -- a Marxist inspired junta named the Khmer Rouge created what they viewed as a utopia but the civilized world recognized as a dystopia. What followed was the Cambodian genocide which cost the lives of millions. But what happens to those who survive such horrors? How do they move forward? How can they carry on and rebuild their loves in the shadow of unimaginable horror?  In her powerful new book "Coming to Terms with Historical Trauma: A Memoir," Sara bravely shares her story. It is a book that is both tragic and inspiring. In this episode, I speak with Sara about her story, her trauma, and what lessons we as a society can learn from such terrible events. Sara Pol-Lim's book is available from all major retailers including: Barnes & Noble Amazon Dr. Pol-Lim honors include: • “Woman of Distinction” Award from Assembly Member Patrick O'Donnell in 2015.  • Trail Blazer for Outstanding Leadership by 6th District Councilmember Dee Andrew 2014.  • Outstanding Leadership Award by the United States House of Representatives Congressman Alan Lowenthal 2014.  • 4th District Woman of the Year 2013 by Los Angeles County Supervisor Don Knabe.  • Woman of Distinction 2012 by the Honorable Roderick Wright of the 25th Senatorial District.  • Hands Across the District Medal from the Assembly Member Warren Furutani 2012  • Outstanding Cambodian Leader given by Cambodian Town 2012.  • Selected as “Grand Marshall of the Cambodian New Year Parade 2011.  • The Gene Lentzner's “Human Relations” Award 2010 given by the California Conference for Equality and Justice, Long Beach.  • Selected as “Grand Marshall” of the Long Beach Martin Luther King Parade 2010.  • Woman Who Makes a Difference by the Long Beach NAACP 2009.  • Community Leader Award by Mentoring A Touch from Above in 2009.  • Extraordinary Woman Award by Voter Education & Research Action and presenting by Assemblyman Mervyn M. Dymally in 2008.  

U.S.-Russia summit taking place today in Alaska. How the U.S. could end up having boots on the ground in Ukraine. CNN and MSNBC admit that crime is out of control in Washington, D.C. New York Democrat Senator Chuck Schumer's imaginary friends. Texas Democrat Rep. Jasmine Crockett vs. BlazeTV host Sara Gonzales. Meet the world's ugliest dogs! Oasis needs publicity. Hunter Biden was given a chance to apologize to Melania Trump. California Democrat Governor Gavin Newsom is the king of Trump derangement syndrome. Male cheerleaders around the NFL. The trip Joe Biden canceled because of stairs. Cambodian monks thank President Trump for brokering peace with Thailand. ICE has a new promotional video. Meta AI has issues. 00:00 Pat Gray UNLEASHED! 00:21 Trump to Meet with Putin TODAY! 00:41 Richard Blumenthal Wants Troops in Ukraine 01:57 Putin Staying at the Dorms 05:30 DC Homeless Tent City Destroyed 07:26 "Find a Hobby!" 08:38 CNN Admits Trump is Handling Crime Properly 10:30 DC Residents Agree with Trump Federalizing DC 12:26 Morning Joe on Washington DC Crime 14:47 Meet the Baileys 19:09 Jasmine Crockett on Being a Black Woman 21:16 Sara Gonzales Confronts Jasmine Crockett 23:24 John Kennedy on the State of the Democratic Party 26:31 Zohran Mamdani Called a Communist 34:37 Fat Five 51:40 Oasis is Bigger than The Beatles? 54:21 Hunter Biden's Response to Melania Trump Lawsuit 57:11 Texas Democrats are Back 58:53 Gavin Newsom on Trump 2028 1:01:23 Newsom "Announces" Liberation Day for California 1:01:48 Newsom's TDS Continues 1:02:50 Gavin Newsom on ICE 1:09:44 Minnesota Vikings Cheerleader(s) 1:13:45 New England Patriots' New Rookie Cheerleaders 1:18:19 Joe Biden Canceled Visits due to "Too Many Stairs to Climb" 1:24:07 Cambodian Monks Thank President Trump 1:32:13 New ICE SUV 1:33:28 ICE Showcases New Vehicles 1:34:39 Meta AI's Inappropriate Talk with Minors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Your daily news in under three minutes. At Al Jazeera Podcasts, we want to hear from you, our listeners. So, please head to https://www.aljazeera.com/survey and tell us your thoughts about this show and other Al Jazeera podcasts. It only takes a few minutes! Connect with us: @AJEPodcasts on X, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube

Joshua Kurlantzick, senior fellow for Southeast Asia and South Asia at the Council on Foreign Relations, sits down with James M. Lindsay to discuss the ongoing border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia and if the current ceasefire will hold up.   Mentioned on the Episode:   Joshua Kurlantzick, Beijing's Global Media Offensive    Joshua Kurlantzick, “Thailand and Cambodia's Ceasefire: Will It Stop War When Elites Want Conflict?,” CFR.org    For an episode transcript and show notes, visit The President's Inbox at: https://www.cfr.org/podcasts/tpi/cambodian-thai-border-clash-josh-kurlantzick

Following a weaker than expected jobs report today, President Trump said he'll fire the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, claiming the data was rigged. It's an unprecedented move with potentially enormous consequences for our understanding of the U.S. economy. We'll explain. And, we'll get into how Trump's tariffs are destabilizing economies across globe. Plus, we'll weigh in on tariff “rebates” and pricier desserts during a round of Half Full/Half Empty!Here's everything we talked about today:"The full list of Trump's tariffs – from India to Taiwan" from The Guardian "‘There's no work now, just debt': Cambodian garment workers face precarious future as US tariffs loom" from The Guardian "Tariffs Bring Disaster In Lesotho, the Country That Trump Says Nobody's Heard Of" from The Wall Street Journal "85 percent of parents worry about tariffs affecting back-to-school cost: Survey" from The Hill "Trump fires commissioner of labor statistics after weaker-than-expected jobs figures slam markets" from CNBC"Big Downward Jobs Revisions Could Be a Warning Sign for the Economy" The New York Times"Private equity tees up to invest in youth sports" from Marketplace"NYC's Luxury Dessert Scene Is Booming and Higher Priced Than Ever" from Eater"Subscription-based children's magazines are revitalizing the genre" from Marketplace"GOP senators reject Trump's pitch to use tariff revenue for ‘rebates'" from The Washington PostWe love hearing from you. Leave us a voicemail at 508-U-B-SMART or email makemesmart@marketplace.org.

Following a weaker than expected jobs report today, President Trump said he'll fire the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, claiming the data was rigged. It's an unprecedented move with potentially enormous consequences for our understanding of the U.S. economy. We'll explain. And, we'll get into how Trump's tariffs are destabilizing economies across globe. Plus, we'll weigh in on tariff “rebates” and pricier desserts during a round of Half Full/Half Empty!Here's everything we talked about today:"The full list of Trump's tariffs – from India to Taiwan" from The Guardian "‘There's no work now, just debt': Cambodian garment workers face precarious future as US tariffs loom" from The Guardian "Tariffs Bring Disaster In Lesotho, the Country That Trump Says Nobody's Heard Of" from The Wall Street Journal "85 percent of parents worry about tariffs affecting back-to-school cost: Survey" from The Hill "Trump fires commissioner of labor statistics after weaker-than-expected jobs figures slam markets" from CNBC"Big Downward Jobs Revisions Could Be a Warning Sign for the Economy" The New York Times"Private equity tees up to invest in youth sports" from Marketplace"NYC's Luxury Dessert Scene Is Booming and Higher Priced Than Ever" from Eater"Subscription-based children's magazines are revitalizing the genre" from Marketplace"GOP senators reject Trump's pitch to use tariff revenue for ‘rebates'" from The Washington PostWe love hearing from you. Leave us a voicemail at 508-U-B-SMART or email makemesmart@marketplace.org.

Cross-border battles between Thailand and Cambodia have spread to new areas as fighting between the southeast Asian neighbours continues for a third day. We hear from both sides of the boundary. Also on the programme: President Trump arrives in Scotland; and the matcha mania putting pressure on tea suppliers. (Photo: A Cambodian military personnel stands on a BM-21 Grad multiple rocket launcher, around 40 km (24 miles) from the disputed Ta Moan Thom temple, Cambodia, July 25, 2025. Credit: REUTERS/Soveit Yarn)

Subscribe now to skip the ads. Don't forget to buy our “Welcome to the Crusades” miniseries! Danny and Derek also rail against the war pigs, but lack the heavy riffs. This week: the International Court of Justice rules that wealthy nations must take action on climate change or bear responsibility (1:20); clashes escalate on the Thai-Cambodian border (4:08); a ceasefire holds in Syria's Suwayda province after clashes between Druze and Bedouin groups (9:06); in Israel-Palestine, Gaza's starvation reaches catastrophic levels (13:19) as ceasefire talks barely limp along (16:23); Iran is reengaging with the International Atomic Energy Agency (20:49); the Democratic Republic of the Congo and M23 militant group sign a declaration of intent (23:05); in Ukraine, a new round of peace talks achieves little (25:24) while Zelensky responds to protests over corruption (28:27); Venezuela, the US, and El Salvador carry out a prisoner exchange amid accusations of torture (31:38); the Japan House of Councillors holds an election while PM Ishiba looks likely to resign (33:32); and Japan, the Philippines, and Indonesia make trade deals (36:10). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What lies behind the clashes on the Thai Cambodian border is a fractured friendship between the two nations. In July both countries strike each other with civilians killed and injured in the crossfire. More than a hundred thousand are evacuated. Thailand warns the clashes could escalate to war. In May a brief gunfire exchange killed a Cambodian soldier. Just over two weeks later surprising details from a recorded private phone conversation went public. On that 17-minute call to Cambodia was Thailand's Prime Minister Paetongtarn Shinawatra. It was supposed to defuse the situation - instead it has erupted.Away from the border, there's been public outrage in Thailand, a major prime ministerial setback, fractured friendships, diplomatic ties downgraded and even more political pressure on a far from robust government.Contributors: · Dr Petra Alderman, Centre manager at the Saw Swee Hock Southeast Asia Centre at the London School of Economics and Political Science Dr Thitinan Pongsudhirak, Professor and senior fellow of the Institute of Security and International Studies at Chulalongkorn University Dr Vu Lam, Lecturer at the University of New South Wales Dr Pavida Pananond, Professor of International Business and Strategy at Thammasat University's Business School based in Bangkok Presented by Charmaine Cozier Produced by Daniel Rosney Researched by Evie Yabsley Technical producer Criag Boardman Production co-ordinator Liam Morrey Editor Tara McDermott

Thailand seals border with Cambodia after clashes leave at least 12 people dead. Also: a deadly plane crash in eastern Russia, and how many steps should you take each day to stay healthy?