Podcasts about lencioni

 Andy and Mon-Chaio explore Patrick Lencioni's concept of the five dysfunctions of a team, discussing how absence of trust, fear of conflict, lack of commitment, avoidance of accountability, and inattention to results interrelate to impact team performance. They reflect on their own experiences and the importance of productive conflict, peer accountability, and commitment to collective success. Listeners will learn how examining organizational structure and culture can address these dysfunctions and improve team dynamics. Andy and Mon-Chaio also stumble upon the topic for the next episode on holding individuals accountable in areas outside one's expertise.Transcript: https://thettlpodcast.com/2025/03/04/s3e8-5-dysfunctions-of-a-team/References: 5 Dysfunctions of a Team PDF resource - https://files.tablegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/11224029/FiveDysfunctions.pdf 5 Dysfunctions of a Team - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Dysfunctions_of_a_Team Team Effectiveness: A Validation Study of Lencioni's Five Functions of a Team - https://lib.manaraa.com/books/A%20validation%20study%20of%20Lencioni's%20five%20functions%20of%20a%20team.pdf

Gabriel Lencioni is a young, equine vet with an interest in horse welfare and behaviour. Recently qualified, Gabriel is already embarking on research that just might change the way we think about horse welfare in equestrian sport - he is creating an AI model to assess horse welfare during competition. Not your regular AI tech-bro, Gabriel shares with us his journey into animal behavior and welfare, and why he is determined to leverage the latest technology to improve the lives of horses, vets and owners. As our first guest from South America, we also explore cultural perspectives on animal welfare, and as always, we talk about how optimistic we are the future of horse sports. Reading and Resources Find all of Gabriel's research here The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness (2012) An integrative and functional framework for the study of animal emotion and mood (Mendl et al, 2010)

Chapter 1:Summary of The Ideal Team Player"The Ideal Team Player" by Patrick Lencioni outlines the characteristics that make someone a valuable team member. Lencioni identifies three essential virtues that the ideal team player embodies:1. Humble: Humility is the foundation of an ideal team player. Humble individuals prioritize the team's success over their own ego, recognizing that collaboration is key to achieving goals. They are willing to share credit and take responsibility for failures.2. Hungry: A hungry team player is motivated and self-driven, constantly seeking to improve themselves and contribute to the team. They are ambitious, not just in terms of personal success but also in supporting the team's objectives. This characteristic reflects a strong work ethic and a desire to go above and beyond.3. People Smart: Being people smart refers to emotional intelligence. Ideal team players have the ability to understand and relate to others, fostering positive relationships and teamwork. They are good communicators who can navigate interpersonal dynamics effectively.Lencioni emphasizes that these virtues are interrelated and that a balanced combination of all three makes an individual an exceptional team player. He also outlines the negative aspects of lacking these virtues, detailing how team dynamics can suffer when individuals prioritize their own needs over the team's.The book combines theory with practical insights, including a fictional story that illustrates the principles. Lencioni also provides guidance on how organizations can identify, hire, and cultivate team players who embody these traits, ultimately leading to more effective and cohesive teams.Chapter 2:The Theme of The Ideal Team Player"The Ideal Team Player: How to Recognize and Cultivate The Three Essential Virtues" by Patrick Lencioni is a business parable that revolves around the importance of teamwork and the key characteristics that make someone a valuable team member. Here's a summary of key plot points, character development, and thematic ideas: Key Plot Points:1. Introduction of the Characters: The story centers around the main character, Jeff Shanley, the president of a mid-sized construction firm. He is facing challenges with team dynamics and performance.2. The Team Retreat: The narrative unfolds during a team retreat where Jeff seeks to address the dysfunctions within his team and improve collaboration.3. The Concept of Team Player Virtues: Lencioni introduces the three essential virtues of the ideal team player: humility, hunger, and people smarts. Each virtue is explored through storytelling and character interactions.4. Realizing the Challenge: As Jeff discusses problems within the team, he reflects on his own experiences and the importance of recognizing and nurturing these virtues in team members.5. Conflict and Resolution: Conflicts arise as team members exhibit different levels of the three virtues. The team must work through misunderstandings and interpersonal issues.6. Implementation of the Lessons: Throughout the story, Jeff learns how to identify ideal team players, the role of leadership in fostering these qualities, and how to address weaknesses within the team dynamic.7. Conclusion: The story culminates with the team developing a better understanding of their roles and a renewed commitment to each other and their work, leading to a significantly improved team environment. Character Development:- Jeff Shanley: The protagonist who evolves from being a frustrated leader to one who understands the importance of building a strong team based on the virtues of humility, hunger, and people smarts. His journey highlights the challenges leaders face in cultivating ideal team dynamics.- Team Members: Various team members represent different combinations of...

LOCPod gears up for the Taylor Swift concert in Indianapolis tonight; Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson goes against a campaign promise and proposes a property tax increase; Biden calls Trump supporters garbage; Trump tells women he will protect them “whether they like it or not”; Tom and Kevin talk with The Golden Bachelorette star Jack Lencioni about what it was like being on the show, his dating life post-show, being from Northwest Indiana, and more.

SEASON 10 The Learning Leader Daily Leadership Tips and Discussions Today I want to talk a little bit about another self-awareness tool that I am reading about now. It comes from the book by Patrick Lencioni called “The 6 Types of Working Genius.” In this book, Lencioni tells a fable about a guy who just can't seem to excel to the point where he is simply loving his job for a long period of time; he seems to get bored and eventually grows tired of the job. As the story plays out, he comes to realize that he just isn't working in his genius area. Out of the 6 types of working genius, I clearly identified with 2 and a third one also resonated with me. See if you can pick out which type you think you are. To check out the book, and other Patrick Lencioni books, here are a few links: The 6 Types of Working Genius: https://amzn.to/4h7hBlr One of my all-time favorites, “The FIVE Dysfunctions of a Team” https://amzn.to/4dPjwrV “The Motive” https://amzn.to/4eLXKqt “The Advantage” https://amzn.to/4hoGE3J   A Great Book on Self Talk: “What to Say When You Talk to Yourself'” by Shad Helmstetter, https://amzn.to/47rO3uu   “High Road Leadership: Bringing people together in a world that divides.” By John C, Maxwell, https://amzn.to/4cWxury **To learn more about how Paul can walk you and your team through a 12-week High Road Leadership Mastermind, contact him at Paul@CLCTeam.com and put “High Road Leadership” in the subject block.   Thank you for listening. I'm Paul Grau Jr., the host of this show, and I'm excited about Season 10. This season will focus on “The Learning Leader” and/or as we refer to it here at The CLC Team, “The Expanding Leader. Every episode will primarily focus on the lifelong journey of expanding your knowledge of leadership, and I will try to give you a daily takeaway to put what you learn into action. My goal is that you learn something that you can take immediate action on, and see how powerful expanding your leadership can be.    Have you ever wondered why it's so difficult for a group of leaders to norm or be consistent? Well, it's because every leader is unique and has their own style and way of leading their team. By coming together and forming a bond in your organizations leadership team, you can begin norming better than ever before. I use the DISC assessment with every client and team I work with and have found it to be a real game-changer for the entire team. This is certainly no different when you have a group of leaders together. In order for them to work together in unison, they have to begin by knowing each other very well. That's where the DISC comes in, so I will mix the DISC behavioral styles in throughout this series. I am a DISC Certified Trainer and Consultant and have worked with behavioral styles for over 20 years. I am certified through the John Maxwell Leadership Team and have worked with hundreds of teams. If you are interested in having me work with your team leaders or if you want to purchase a DISC assessments for yourself and your team, please contact me via email at Paul@CLCTeam.com If you want to dive in deeper, here are some great books to read and study about the behavioral styles: “Surrounded by Idiots” by Thomas Erikson https://amzn.to/4gphp0D “Full Spectrum Success: Living and Leading in True Color” by Jacob Adamo https://amzn.to/3zglV0A “The Four Tendencies” by Gretchen Rubin https://amzn.to/4dVCMVB “Wired That Way” by Marita Littauer. https://amzn.to/4dZHXUj “Personality PLUS” by Florence Littauer. https://amzn.to/4d1jQmT   Please listen daily (Mon – Friday) as Paul focuses on not only giving tips about how to be a great leader, but also a leader who is respected, a leader who people want to follow, a leader who can confidently navigate their way through both personal and professional challenges, a leader who is not afraid to share their faith while living it out, a leader who knows his/her purpose and lives to fulfill that purpose every day, and a leader who has no regrets! As always, I value your feedback and comments, especially your perspectives and opinions. Please share them with me by emailing them to Paul@CLCTeam.com  Lots of new stuff to come... please consider subscribing, sharing with a friend, and giving me a review on whatever platform you listen on.  Have a great day and Lead Well! “Run To Your Challenges!”

Chicagoan Jack Lencioni joins Lisa Dent to look back on his time looking for love with Joan Vassos on The Golden Bachelorette. He also talks about his fellow bachelors, including another one of Chicago’s very own, the lovable Frenchman named Pascal.

Kiera is a guest on the Dental Lighthouse Podcast with Jason Tanoory to talk about the power of quarterly meetings. They discuss the benefits of a third party, how to have healthy conversations, and why there needs to be an atmosphere of trust and vulnerability to have good communication. Episode resources: Listen to the Dental Lighthouse Podcast Reach out to Kiera Tune Into DAT's Monthly Webinar Practice Momentum Group Consulting Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Become Dental A-Team Platinum! Review the podcast Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:02.151) Dr. Jason here, welcome back Dental Lighthouse podcast. On today's show, I have the one, the only, Kiera Dent. And hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I have the one and only Jason Tanoory. This is seven years in the making. seven years I've been trying to get on Kiera's podcast. And after begging,   for the last three days, because Kiera and have been together nonstop for the last three days. She has finally allowed to give me a six minute window of recording time. Not true. We had to extend this longer because we only had 30 minutes originally. you said, no, no, need more time to unpack this. I have so many issues that I need to unpack that doing it in six minutes was not going to be a window. It's true. But honestly, I do feel like it was   It was a missed opportunity. I've podcasted with Amy many times on the podcast, but for Jason and I to get here, I mean, think this is the most we've hung out at any time I've come to these meetings with you. And so maybe that was what, how it happened this round, but truly, think honestly, in the seven years we worked together, it's been really fun to watch your practice evolve. And so I'm super excited to rift on this. I mean, I can ask questions. We didn't know whose podcast we were basically hosting from, cause we now are both hosts.   But I think there's just been some really incredible things that have come out in seven years. I watched your practices grow exponentially over the years. I watched you grow. I watched Amy grow. I watched your teams evolve. And being able to do these quarterlies, everyone says, Kiera, you still consult. And I'm like, I do consult still. But honestly, Jason, and this is not me trying to boost your ego for any stretch. I continually have come out here. It's so far away. You my furthest office.   The Dental A Team (02:19.946) I even got COVID here one time and stayed at the holiday for like a week. But I just learned so much. I think you're an incredible leader. think the world needs more of you and what you're doing. And so it's just really fun to have you and me kind of have this rift of a podcast today and share the things that we've learned possibly over the years. Wow. So I was not expecting that. Maybe we should have practiced before we hit record. But thank you so much for saying that. I really appreciate it.   Let's give our listeners a little bit of context here, right? So you guys know my story and you obviously, if you're a listener of Kiera's podcast, you know her story. Our story is that about six or seven years ago, we were starting to scale at a level that I was worried about controlling it. I was worried about how to get out of the weeds and   work on the business instead of being stuck in it. And I was worried about having someone to basically MC our leadership meetings, facilitate them, run them, make sure we stay on track. And the first person I thought to help me with that was Kiera. And she has been doing that in some capacity for us over the last seven years. And it's just been...   such a blessing for us to have her to lean on over the last seven years as we've continued to scale. And that's why we're together today. We're basically wrapping up our final quarterly meeting. this week had two quarterly meetings every day lasting anywhere from two to five hours, depending on the size of the office. We're just about to roll into our final one in about an hour or so.   So maybe we talk about this week, maybe we just talk about, well, I'll talk about anything. What do you think? Yeah, I think talking about this week since it's so relevant and I think it's actually super interesting to know something as I watched, you asked me to come in and help. We were kind of building off of the EOS model. Traction was where we started. I remember I had no clue what you were talking about and you said, don't worry, Kiera, you know dental, we know traction. We'll just work together.   The Dental A Team (04:42.606) But I think that that's something I've always loved about you and your practices is you guys will try anything. You're great implementers, you're great executors, you have a really beautiful vision. And I even think back to our first meeting, what your vision was to what your vision is today and the way you've been able to explain that to your team. so yeah, I think, and then I remember Amy called me one time and said, Kiera we're not just gonna have you work with one office. We now have four offices. So that felt like, let's try and figure this out. And then it's like, now we've got five offices and now we have six offices. And I think we've done a really good job of   figuring out what are the best things to implement, what do we want to do for these offices? But what I love is that you are so obsessed with making sure your entire teams are bought into the vision, bought into the pieces. And it's been really fun this time, you're no longer clinical. So you actually get to like come around and be a part of all of it. And I think it's been a really, it's been a fun yin and yang this round that we've never experienced. This was our first time doing it together fully for all of the practices. Yeah, I think.   So yeah, a hundred percent everything that you just said. You know, we started with EOS and the Gino Wickman model from the book Traction. And if you guys haven't read that book and you feel lost in as far as how to facilitate growth in your business, I think that's a great place to start. And then we've used that as a core and then incorporated some, some Lencioni principles into there. And basically by sprinkling in a little bit of this and sprinkling in a little bit of that, coming up with our own.   secret sauce that I feel at least at this moment serves our purpose and our intentions really, really well. And your point about me not being clinical and being able to actually be at the meetings and be engaged in the meetings, it's bittersweet because I think leaders or let's call them owners, owners of dental practices would   probably rather abdicate the responsibility of having these meetings. And there was definitely a part of me that said, well, we'll just bring Kiera in to do it. So I can, you know, dot, dot, dot. And really the self-talk that I was, I was saying to myself was, I don't want to do it. I don't want to have uncomfortable conversations. I don't want to work hard on trying to create clarity of vision and where we're going. So I'll just go work on this crown while Kiera does it.   The Dental A Team (07:07.287) And that served me well, selfishly, for a year or two. But then you start to realize, if we're going to scale, the founder, the owner, has to be an integral part of the process. Now, they don't necessarily have to lead the meetings, per se, but they have to be there. They have to chime in when it's appropriate. They have to even give someone like Kiera, who's facilitating these, clarity on the vision.   And I feel like this week was really great where we could play off of each other. You did just a phenomenal job of running the meetings, going through the agenda. And then you leaned on me if there was a specific part of vision, you know, where are we going? What do we mean by this? Jason, can you speak to that? And I think it ultimately benefited each of our teams. Definitely agree. And I think like, just to help listeners see,   You didn't start here, right? And I think so many people, when they look at where your practices are, they're like, well, Jason's not in them. He's running all these meetings. But like, let's back up. There were a good five, six years where you were at the core one. You and I would always chat before every quarterly. So I'd at least understand what you wanted. And I would go with Amy, who's just incredible. Amy makes my life easy. I love you, Jason. And I love Amy. Like, is really, they're an incredible group. They make my job easy.   But there was always clarity before everyone. So if you are a practicing clinician still, don't feel like maybe you have to completely remove yourself clinically to be able to do this. Jason scaled up to this and it was always within the goals. We knew that he wanted to eventually get out of clinical. So I knew where he wanted to go. It was always working the practices up to that. But I think to your point this round, what I think has been so powerful between both of us is, I think sometimes when you're the founder, it's great to give vision, but sometimes it's hard to   be the only person, at least for myself and my team and in other teams I coach, sometimes having to be all of it is hard. And when they hear it from a different perspective, like, love that you're a male, I'm a female, we bring two different energies to the table. When we're going through the meeting, I rally them up and then I ask Jason to share about the vision because I think it's so important for teams to really get behind you. You set the North Star for it.   The Dental A Team (09:24.354) But then it's also, they're hearing it from multiple facets as well, which I think helps the team. Like you'll hear things that I'm not hearing. I'll hear things that you're not hearing. We're coming together. Cause at the end of the day, we want these teams to win and flourish. but I also think the relationship we've built over the last seven years helps us really jive on that. And I think coming to the table, we were very aligned on, on values already. And so I think when you're looking at coaches and doctors, like, are you aligned? Because I think it would have been hard if I'm always pushing production and you're pushing culture.   that's not gonna mesh. And so making sure that you two are aligned, I think when you're guiding a team and we've really ripped it off of each other, I think in a really great way, because I know where you wanna go. And honestly, I love your team so much. mean, they've had babies, they've grown, they've evolved. And it's really fun for me to see these cultures and these teams talk about numbers and get an ownership mindset, but they didn't start there. And we've like really grown them through. But I mean, even today we were talking with a team about profitability and to teach them.   how to look at P &Ls and teach them about numbers and to think like owners. I think the light bulb moment was when our first meeting this week, you have an office manager. How long has Megan been in her role? She's been with me for, it's gotta be almost 15 years. And she's been the office manager of our flagship office, our biggest office for gotta be seven, eight years maybe. Megan.   if and when you listen to this, I'm very off in those guesses, I apologize. That's why I write things down so I don't have to remember them. But the reality is she's just an amazing key part of what we're trying to do. Totally. And what I loved about Megan this meeting, because I watched her when she came into the OM role, was she said, hey,   what about this? This is me thinking like an owner. And she questioned something that was going on within their practice of how is this going to hit my PNL? How's this going to impact her profitability? And honestly, I felt like both you and I probably saw like fireworks go off because she gets it. She understands that she thinks about the numbers. She thinks about the profitability. She thinks like an owner. And I think her decisions are much stronger and much sounder because she's coming from that viewpoint. But like, again, it took time.   The Dental A Team (11:36.088) But I really love Jason that you are so passionate about growing your team into these incredible leaders and they know where you want to take them. And I love that in all the meetings you've said, this is our reason, this is why we exist. This is selfishly what I want to do. And if that doesn't align with you, that's okay. And I think giving teams permission of if they're not aligned with you, you'll help them find another job, but this is what we're doing and we're really passionate about it. And it's been really, really awesome to see the teams gravitate towards that and learn and ask the questions.   I think that's something I've learned from you over my years. You do a good job of making a safe space for them and we work on that every time of trust and vulnerability, saying the things, asking the questions, giving the clarity so that way they can really be empowered to make decisions and grow their own practices. And truth be told, of all six of them, no meeting is the same. No teams winning statements are the same. No teams objectives, the rallying cries. None of them are the same. None of them have the same metric issues. Like they all are very individualized and giving them the empowerment.   to figure out what they want and guiding them. But really they set the stage and I think that that's what buys them into the culture and also to the practices. Yeah, so much to unpack there. So we're here. That's why we have you now all the time in the world, Jason. We could not do this earlier. He was stressed. I could feel it from him. like, let's go. He's like, hold on, hold on. Yeah. need more time. Yeah, I can't stop me sweating, right? Man, where do I start? There's so much.   So much wisdom in what Kiera just said. So first off, I do think that there's a tremendous amount of value in having quarterly meetings and figuring out a way to get out of the whirlwind and work on the business and set it in it. I also think there's value in bringing in a independent party for lack of a better term, because they get to see it with a new objectivity that   maybe you are not seeing it with because you're constantly caught in the storm. Now you might be at where you can't afford something like that, or you may be at a point where you feel like you can do it better yourself, whatever it is, you're going to ultimately work through those pain points and those issues. And I would suspect that you come out the other end realizing that I need someone to help facilitate this, someone that's not so attached to it personally. Yeah, I'll never forget.   The Dental A Team (13:59.962) you know, we'll go on a little tangent here. So we used to do, anonymous surveys with the team. This is one of the first times that Kiera ever came to our, one of our quarterlies to help us. And at the quarterly, we used to unpack the results of these anonymous surveys. And this was an anonymous survey for a particular office. And we were getting a lot of what back then I would call negative. Nowadays I would call constructive feedback regarding a specific employee.   And everyone at the table was trying to spin it in a way where, yeah, but she's still able to do this or she's still able to do that. And we were like basically lying to ourselves about the situation. And Kiera would just be, you know, in the corner, just listening intently, not saying anything. And then after everyone had a chance to kind of sell their side of the story, Kiera's like, look, guys, here's the deal. Like, and I don't know this person and I'm not attached to this person.   But based on all of the feedback that you guys are giving me and based on what I'm hearing other people in the practice say, this is a horrible culture fit and you need to let her go. And we're like, you're right. But we were like, we all have this story that we were like telling ourselves because we were like in the situation. It's like the forest through the trees analogy. And to have someone that really has no, now Kiera loves us and has ties to us, but really has no like.   like emotional ties to what we're doing that can just give her wisdom with a level of objectivity that just we were lacking at the time. that's the first point. Like whenever you can bring someone independently in, just think it resonates better. And it's kind of like the classic parenting situation that my wife, Karen and I are always talking about. So I can parent my teenage son till I'm blue in the face and telling him life lessons and what to expect and what have you.   and he can just ignore me for a litany of reasons. But my next door neighbor will say the same thing to him and he's like, that's a good point, I'll consider that. And I'm like, what? I've been telling you that for a year. And so sometimes your team just needs to hear it from a different source. Yeah, and I think that I remember that meeting too. And I think my role, I take it very seriously, of like my job is to not come in and fire people or.   The Dental A Team (16:24.283) do anything crazy like that. But my job is to truly be that person that isn't in it day in and day out and to give that perspective that ultimately is gonna help them win. And I think that's defining what winning looks like and really knowing that I care about all of them as people and as a business and as an organization that I know is doing great things. I think you also have to have somebody who's willing to speak up like that too in a gentle manner that really gives them the clarity and the guidance. At the end of the day, they get to make the decisions and I might be off base, but.   I think it really has been this building of being able to say, is this maybe a paradigm shift that we could look at? And I know we did quite a bit of that this week with the offices, which is really fun with Jason and I being able to riff with each other because again, maybe they've heard it from Jason so many times in the organization, me parroting it or saying it in a different way. It just sometimes will click with people. And sometimes what I say, think resonates. Jason, again, our ultimate goal is to help them win. And neither of us, mean,   I think both of us do a good job of not having the ego. We just come to the table. What I mean, it's been worked on. I remember when I first came in, I felt like I had to just be the best for you guys and I had to be this incredible consultant. like, I needed Jason to tell me I got all my gold stars. And that was my ego serving rather than coming in. And my job is to just do the best for this team. Your job is to come in and do the best for this team and to help this team flourish. There's no ego associated with it. It's really...   How can we give them the guidance and the clarity they need to be able to truly flourish and have fun doing it and to be successful? it's, I mean, you guys have rolled out. What I love about you guys is you will constantly change and evolve and we're asking questions. So post meeting, like, how did that go? What did we learn? What did we learn about the organization? And mad kudos to you and Amy. That's why I think I love coming is you're never die hard. This is what we're doing. You'll have, we'll have the healthy conversations. We'll have the debate. We'll go back and forth, but.   end all, be all, you'll try things and see if they work because you want everybody to win. And I think that that's something so powerful that I think if leaders can learn that and they can learn to set their egos aside and they can learn like there are things being said that we need to take on and try or do things differently. I think it helps a lot. And honestly, I learned so much in all these quarterlies listening to you, listening to your team. I'm constantly writing little notes for myself. But I think it's just being around people that elevate you and lift you up and   The Dental A Team (18:45.206) bringing the best out of your teams just is such a fulfilling experience. And I think that's why we love doing these quarterlies because you see the teams evolve quarter after quarter after quarter and just get better and better. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think one of the common themes with this last round of quarterlies was just an emphasis on communication, an emphasis on what we call going into the storm and   you know, having each one of us give permission to the team that we want feedback. We want to be told that we're doing a good job. And if we're not doing a good job, it's, it's not that we're intentionally trying to do a bad job. It's just, I'm doing things how I thought they were supposed to be done, either based on my experiences or my training or what have you.   And if I'm not doing a good job, like, let me know. Like, I deserve to know, I need to know. And the only way that this practice is really going to win is if you give me that feedback and I'm receptive to it and I can grow from it. It's such a paradigm from where I think a lot of dental practices are maybe that are not as far along the journey where the founder or the doctor is so worried about new patients and production and we got to do this, we got to do that.   Which is all important, don't get me wrong, but like it's crazy because we're bigger than most organizations and over the last year we just been doubling down on communication. it's, it's, we're having our best year ever, our most profitable year ever. And it's without a, like this crazy emphasis and well, you have to do this for new patients and you have to do this for turning over the room, like all important. Don't get me wrong. But when, when you just double down on   the communication and just making sure people feel heard and making sure that you're giving honest and sincere feedback, making sure you're going into the storm and having these conversations. Like from that mindset, we have exponentially grown. And this is the first set of quarterlies where it was literally discussed at every meeting and not necessarily us bringing it up. Like team members bring it when, when creating an issues list, the team will say,   The Dental A Team (21:01.496) I wish someone would give me more feedback. I wish that I had more clarity on if I'm doing a good job or we didn't hear those things a couple of years ago because we weren't making it nearly as much of a point of emphasis as we are now. I agree. I think like if I go back to a few quarterlies, I remember I came to the meeting, Jason and I had not prepped this. I knew kind of the direction he wanted to go. I always try to bring something that I think will facilitate opportunities.   And I remember talking about Patrick Lencioni's five dysfunctions of team and you started giggling and the whole team started giggling and they're like, did you two talk before? And the answer was no, but we both knew like this is how we build it. And as it's morphed over the years, I think your winning triangle is a beautiful way. But what I think we've done really well and mad kudos to you guys is you talk about going into the storm. And I think when people look at that pyramid, they feel like, yeah, yeah, trust and vulnerability is important.   But like we want to win. And so we spend a lot of time up here like winning in the metrics where we really hit an emphasis of like, how do we get that trust and vulnerability? And like every quarter, it's a constant conversation of how do we develop more trust and vulnerability? How do we get more of those conversations? And something that I thought was so interesting that's come up in a couple of the meetings this round are the team says that, yeah, but this like, this wasn't the culture and other practices.   and that's why I'm afraid to speak up. And I started thinking about that and ruminating on it as we've been going through each office, realizing that society kind of trains us to like, don't speak up. I was even talking to my husband last night and I just noticed like, he gave me an example from his hospital and I was like, like what, you can't really coach your spouse all the time. You gotta like make sure you do it delicately. And I just, thought, gosh, this is a great opportunity for you to go into the storm and have that.   But when teams aren't taught that, that's what I love about doing it with the teams and coaching the teams and helping them in the smaller practices, is they're all hearing the same thing. We're all giving each other permission to have feedback and to have trust and vulnerability and teaching them how to have the conversations and how to receive it. Because at the end of the day, Jason, I'm sure you will say the same thing of all the practices we coach, the number one thing I hear from every practice consistently is communication. Like that is the number one issue that comes up. And so if you can teach them how to have   The Dental A Team (23:18.746) trust and vulnerability, go into the storm, have the conversations and have it be something where we're not confrontational, but truly it's a conversation to get like, we're on the same team, let's figure this out. I love the analogy you had of the sports team and how they call out the shots, they call out the plays to make us so we can win and helping teams realize like in a day-to-day basis, we do that together and making that their daily life and they're like building that skillset for them.   I'm excited because yes, it will help the practices flourish, but also these team members are elevating to levels they didn't even know because now they can communicate better in their personal lives. They can communicate better with their family and their friends. And it just elevates them to this whole new level of life. I know when I started learning, like have those uncomfortable conversations, have those growth conversations, like have them quicker and not delay them. Cause as you've mentioned multiple times this week, when we delay those conversations, it's truly not benefiting anybody. The dental system doesn't hear it.   the front office isn't here, the patient didn't have a great experience. The only person that benefited was realistically my ego, which ultimately is selfish. And not that I'm doing it intentionally to be selfish. I think we do try to have it in the realm of being kind, but being kind is also clear and having those conversations so people don't feel like they're on eggshells. It's really incredible because if teams can learn to communicate with that, so many things get fixed very quickly because now we're all focused on the same thing.   and having permission for that. Yeah, one of my favorite Ramsey quotes, my listeners will know that I have a man crush on Dave Ramsey. I a lot of it. To be unclear is to be unkind, right? So I think we fool ourselves into thinking like, okay, we just observed so-and-so do something incorrectly, but I don't want to hurt their feelings. So I'll just...   I'll mention something later or you'll, I'll never, I'll sweep it under the rug or I won't, I won't deal with it. And to your point, when you choose not to deal with it, that person doesn't get any better. The business doesn't get any better. The patient experience doesn't get any better. The only person that really experiences, the only person that really benefits from you not having that conversation is you, because you can choose to be selfish and not have to develop the courage to go have that conversation. And when we say,   The Dental A Team (25:38.372) going to the store and develop the courage to have that conversation. We're not talking about guns blazing, you know, screaming at someone. We're talking about going into that conversation from a position of empathy and curiosity, asking questions with the intention of trying to grow that person. so the business can ultimately get closer to winning. I think it's been fun to give real life examples for practices because handoffs, handoffs are a constant theme that comes up in all practices.   and to show them that like, if we can help them go into the storm and when that handoff doesn't come perfectly to you, that you're then able to ask that person for the feedback you need. And it's crazy, there's one office that you guys have and the office manager is really good at, if it's not a perfect route, slip in a perfect handoff, they don't accept it they do it with love. But that office knows, and we were even talking in your flagship practice, like when the office manager sits up there, everybody brings perfect ones in.   but maybe for other team members, they're not doing that. And giving the team the power, the permission, the ask for it, and helping them just get one or 2 % better, that's one or 2 % better across an entire organization, which elevates us so much more. And I think that that's something I've really loved. Every single quarterly, we really focus on that trust and vulnerability, then the healthy debate, bringing up the issues. And I love, love, love.   when we have new team members that feel safe enough to do it, when we have existing team members that have been with us for a while, but to start to watch them find their voice and realize it's not a problem, it's not an issue. We're just bringing it to the table so we get the data to really make the best decisions. Some of the best things, I think about our meeting last night, I just was adamant, I'm like, I wanna do assisted hygiene. And it's like, where has this been for months?   but she had the voice, she knew she could bring it up and now they're going to hopefully be able to roll out something that hadn't previously been an option for them. And so again, we want that every time, but I think just encouraging that one or 2 % more vulnerable, more trust, more going into the storm, more healthy debate. Jason, I think you guys have done an incredible job in your organization as a whole. And I know that starts with you and Amy, right? You and Amy and Jen, you guys have it consistently. So you're building those muscles. You roll it down to the regionals. You roll it down to the office managers. We roll it down to the teams. We're teaching all the teams.   The Dental A Team (27:52.078) this is how we communicate here. And somebody have said like, but this wasn't how it was at other offices. And that's where I love when you like, asterisk it and say, at Finger Lake Cental Care, we want it to be a different experience for our team, our patients and our community. And this is what we're doing that's different. Like if this is your vision, join us, cause we want you to be a part of it. Amen. Preach sister. I mean, we've been doing it for like what, three days? So we're pretty, pretty aligned. But Jason, I have a question because-   Selfishly, I'm a caller. Hi, my name's Kiera Dent. I own this consulting company. I coach a lot of dentists. I hear this. But how did you get so crystal clear on where you wanted to go? Because I think I've watched you over the years more and now you're so clear. Why do we exist? It's to serve. I obviously know that that's a piece of who you are and that's what it is. And you can rally that to your team and you can give them the clarity around it. But like,   I think a lot of people go into business because they love dentistry. And then they build these practices because they want to help more people. They're maybe entrepreneurs, they want to do that. But like helping some of the listeners, they might not have the clarity and the experience. Like how did you almost go through that journey to figure out like, this is my legacy, this is where I want to go? Because I'm sure there were times it was hard and you're like, well, maybe this is it. Maybe we sell, maybe I'm done. Maybe you've always had the desire of I want to go. But I even know when I first met you, your goals.   to what your goals are today and like the vision, I actually feel like you shifted, you went away from goals to a vision and a mission, but like how did you go through that journey? Yeah, yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. That's Good thing we didn't have eight This is gonna be a three-part series. So I think whatever you pay attention to, whatever you spend time thinking about, ultimately,   drives behavior. So I got to a point in my life where I was through meditation, through journaling, I was like, well, what am I really doing here? Like, dentists are blessed to have, for the most part, a good lifestyle financially. And I was at a point where, you know, I'm making good money. Like I'm content with this. But I just felt that there was more, there was something more I could be doing.   The Dental A Team (30:17.532) And where I was at, was struggling to use a metaphor, struggling to get out of bed, right? was like, you know what, like I just need something else to, to drive me. I want to be able to jump out of bed and just tackle the day. And I just currently feel that what I'm doing on a day to day basis is not motivating me enough to want to like really tackle this day through. So through a lot of, you know, books and   in meditation and talking to other people. I ultimately came upon this practice of what Ed Milet calls, who's a popular podcaster. calls his definition of hell and his definition of hell is going through your life, living it a certain way, and then you ultimately pass on to the afterlife. Now, depending what your faith is.   you would ultimately, after you die, you would meet your Maker. So my Maker is Jesus Christ. My faith is an extremely important part of my life. So I go through this exercise where I've passed on and I'm in the process. I'm walking up to Jesus Christ. I'm walking up to meet him for the first time. And next to Jesus is another person. So as I'm getting closer and closer to Jesus, I'm like, who is this other person? Who's this person that's sitting or standing next to Jesus? So I finally get to Jesus and   and we introduce each other face to face, and I say, know, hey Jesus, who is this person next to you? And he looks at me and he says, Jason, this is the person I created you to be. This is the person that when I created you, I expected you to become. And from my perspective, I'm looking at that person and I'm thinking to myself, how close am I to that person? Are we?   identical twins or are we like so unrecognizable that I almost have a sense of guilt for how I live my life. So just going through that practice, I think to myself, who did God create me to be? And everyone's going to have a different answer to that. And the answer that I got through prayer and meditation was God's created me to   The Dental A Team (32:30.69) have a certain level of influence and impact to as many possible people as I can have. And I can use the platform of dentistry or our business to ultimately facilitate that. with that context and with that backdrop, I'm trying to grow an organization that is ultimately going to give just the highest level of team members, patients, and communities the ability to be influenced by good. So currently we have 150 employees.   And I feel like I'm trying my best to give all 150 of them the best possible job that they can have. Like an outlet to just serve people. And at the end of their day, you know, it's not gonna be perfect every day. It's not gonna be roses every day. But at the end of their day, they just feel a sense of joy and fulfillment that they get to truly serve other people. They get to pour into other people and they can drive home and think to themselves, man, I love what I do. What I do matters.   What I do allows me to take care of my family and all those things, right? So I would love to do that for 300 people. I would love to do that for 500 people. I would love to do that for a thousand people. And then the trickle down effect of that is those thousand employees can serve exponentially more patients at that high level. And then with the profitability of that, we can give back to the community in an irrational way. And I just love that mindset. you know,   Will I ever arrive? Will I ever finish that? Will I ever check that back? No, it's just a journey. It's like, I'm just going to keep plugging away, plugging away, plugging away. And when I do pass on and I do meet the person standing next to Jesus, my hope is he's pretty darn recognizable. My hope is Jesus says to me, you know what? This is what I intended you to do. This is what I created you to do. You know, good job. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that because   I think so many people don't know how to get there. And as you said that I have watched you and something that I really want to highlight is you have your vision, you have your mission. It's beautiful. And that's like actually why I've loved you and I being at the cordolese together. Cause you can say that and you can share that and a team hearing that from their boss, if you will, I think is very powerful. But I also want to highlight you set the vision. You're not doing all the pieces like   The Dental A Team (34:54.544) and you really do trust and empower your OMS and the teams to do it. I think it's interesting, we're sitting here together in a podcast because Jason's almost like a ghost. Like he's there, you show up, and then all of a sudden he's gone and he just, he's just gone. Like he says goodbye and he's gone. And so I actually love that I wanna highlight that because I think so many people when they have a vision like this, they feel like they have to be the one to create it. And you realize I need to set the North Star.   I need to get the great people in place. I need to do my role and encourage and empower them to do their role and expect them to do their role so that way we can serve more people. And that's something I have watched you from day one be very good at. But you do it in such a gentle and direct way that I feel like people should really like, are, you set the North Star and then you bring all these people together, but you really do hold them highly accountable for what they need to do.   But it's like in a way, I think there's accountability that can be harsh and judgmental and there's accountability that can be direct and kind. And I think you've done a really masterful job. That's why I love learning from you. That's why I love being here. Because I feel like I get better and it's great that I can help bring something to the table as well. It's because I think that's true leadership mentorship. And I think you, you view yourself as a leader and also a very strong mentor to these people to become the best they can be. Well, I appreciate you saying that. That's the goal, right?   I just want to grow people to a level that they didn't even think possible. with that growth, they can continue this vision, right? And it doesn't necessarily have to be with me. They can do it in their church. They can do it in their kids' schools. I just want them to have the right mindset of like, wow, what I do matters and I can create so much influence and impact on my social circle.   So instead of putting my head in the sand, I'm gonna actually do that. I'm gonna try to create nearly as much influence and impact in my life and my circle as Jason poured into me. And then just the flywheel just continues to gain momentum. Which I think is just incredible and it's fun. I love something else I noticed that I think I would love to highlight because I feel like I get a really beautiful bird's eye view of being in the practices and watching you and seeing the teams come to life.   The Dental A Team (37:06.488) I watch you in meetings and you will chime in and you'll paint the vision and then you sit back and you let the team do it. And I think that that is so hard for leaders that have great ideas, but I watch you because you ultimately want them to flourish. You want them to have conversations. And then there's certain times that I watch you and you come in pretty strong of like, well, here's this place or this is what I see or hey, can I give you coaching like in the moment? And I love that you're not afraid to do that, but you also know when to step back and when to jump in.   And I think that that's a learning piece that I've actually been able to watch you like refine over the years to really allow the teams to feel safe, to feel like they can have it. Cause for a long time, I felt like teams did rely on you. They did lean on you like Jason, what should we do? And now I think you've been able to guide them and coach them and teach them how they can do it on their own while also like inserting yourself in the right time when it's necessary for them as well. And I think that's a good leader to know when to speak and when to let them.   And some of them might flounder. I think we watch them set some of their goals and sometimes I'm like, well, I might have chosen something different, but they bought into it. Let's let them run the course and guide them throughout it as well. But truly trusting and believing they're on the right course all the time. 100%. And there's so many cliches out there, but the reality is that allowing people to make their own decisions, giving them boundaries, allowing them to make their own decisions. And if they fail, like,   That's where the true growth comes from. What happened here? What went wrong? And how can I grow from this moving forward? In my opinion, that's really the only way to grow people. So if you're gonna micromanage them and make all the decisions for them, then they're just gonna be a robot. And they're just gonna expect just daily micromanagement from their leader. And that's not what I'm trying to do here. It's so fun and I think people...   I mean, you keep saying, all the major, I care you've heard me say this four or five times. Like we do, we kind of have a similar thing. But we, think it's, you remember to love that office and those people and we give them as if it's our first time having this conversation because they deserve it. Even though you and I have heard it. I mean, we're about to have our sixth run through this, but to just constantly love and pour into them, I think is really amazing. that's kind of, those are my questions. Jason, you got anything for me? I mean, I'm open for whatever you want.   The Dental A Team (39:28.41) I have so many questions for I'm ready. I we have like how much time? We've like five minutes. yeah. So our next quarterly is starting in five minutes. So this is real life here. This is real talk. Sitting in this amazing office, they're getting ready. We can hear the chairs right over there. So let me ask this question. And then, you know, we can always come back for a part two. You can be a VIP again on the podcast. I'll bring you back on, Jason. So the talking about vision, the   The Kiera that I met in 2017 was traveling nonstop, bragging is not the right word, but was very proud of the fact that she had been to every continent and in multiple countries. But the Kiera that I know now has a very different goal, very different vision, likes to travel to help people, but not nearly at the cadence that she was doing.   what has occurred in your life that has encouraged you to pivot on that vision. So you're still able to help a lot of people, but not nearly the way that you were to by constantly being in person all over the world. Yeah, great question. That is a lot to unpack. But I think when I started it, it was   I had a very strong desire to help as many people as I could and also want to get as much experience as I could. I felt like to be the best consultant and the best coach, let me go grab as much data and information as I could. And so that was really my goal. Like let me help and serve and be in as many offices. And then after it was at about 250, I started realizing what does our company need from me as a CEO? And the answer was I wasn't there. I wasn't there to set vision.   I mean, I was literally running around the country and having somebody else completely try to run the company. And we started talking in leadership and I'm sure you can relate to this. It just started to realize that while yes, I love consulting, I need to be very intentional with my time to make sure that our company grows in the direction that I want it to grow and our team needs it. And I had to really realize like what my role and responsibilities were to lead and guide our team rather than being constantly on the road. And so,   The Dental A Team (41:46.236) I think it was a hard shift because my identity was so wrapped up and I'm this traveling consultant and this is what I do. And I think it was easy for me to stay there because I knew how to do that role well. Whereas being a CEO and setting all these things, that wasn't as, I mean, I didn't go to business school. I just built a business because I wanted to serve and love and help dentists really get the life they wanted and empower their teams as well. And so,   I think I stayed in it maybe a little longer than I maybe would have, but realizing that if I really want to serve an impact on a higher level, and that's in the middle of all my vision boards, it says massive impact, and my goal is to just positively impact and serve as many people as I can, me doing that one-on-one wasn't going to get me to that goal. And so I think similar to you, it's like, you've got to scale back, you've got to get more people, you've got to train more people.   And then also like truth be told lifestyle, traveling that much was really hard for my health. could like, it was hard for me to stay consistent with workouts. I was eating like cake pops. Like I was known as the cake pop queen for so long, like eating so much crap and my body honestly just started to really hurt. And I thought my greatest tool in my toolbox is my body. And if I'm not taking care of this body, it's actually going to limit the amount that I can grow and evolve and help more, more practices truth be told. And so   I think there's probably some wisdom, some maturity, some uncomfortability. mean, I still have the time to do something like, don't even know what a CEO is supposed to do. Like I really have no clue and it feels awkward for me, but I know if I sit here long enough, I'm going to figure it out rather than just doing what's comfortable for me. And so I think maybe I got older, I got a little bit wiser, but realized if I really wanted to go for where I wanted to be and to serve as many people, what I was doing was not serving my family. wasn't serving my health.   And while yes, it was so fun to do it, I felt like there was probably a better way to do it. Yeah. Well said. I've been in similar experience. Like I think as a dentist, it was easy, easier for me to just be in a treatment room, put an implant in, do a root canal. But the reality is I could train up other dentists to do that at a high level, just like you could and have trained up other consultants. And I've experienced them firsthand to do what you're doing at a high level where   The Dental A Team (44:07.616) is the one unique ability to use some Dan Sullivan terminology is like casting vision, running a company. And once I decided that that needed to be my responsibility and I could own that, then everything changed. And I would assume that it's been a similar experience for you. It has, it feels rocky. I feel like I'm like a little toddler through that still. It feels shaky. And I also think that that's important to highlight that.   when you realize that's the role for you. I think as we mature in age, we often forget that we need to like fail and to grow and it's going to be uncomfortable and that's actually where we need to be. So many consultants come in and they've been top dogs, they've been regionals, they've been office managers. It's easy for them and they come to consult and it's hard. It's completely different. And I actually think that there's, if we can learn to love that struggle and to   fall in love with the process of becoming who we're ultimately meant to be. I think we go into that storm a lot faster and a lot sooner, even though it feels awkward and it's okay to say, don't know what I'm doing. I know you guys said that, Amy's like, we didn't know what we were doing. Last year was a little bit different of a year. Like we're all learning. But I think the more you encourage that, become that, get more comfortable being uncomfortable, and I know that's so cliche, people say that. The only way you get like comfortable being uncomfortable is get yourself uncomfortable. I think that that, I think that's why you and I jive because   We both know what we need to do. And I love coming and learning from you. You push me. My goal every time is to say something that makes Jason go, I had never thought that way. And I did it this time a couple of times, which I so I think it's like also surround yourself with people that are aligned, which is why I so continue to see you. I've cut back the people I see. I love them, but I'm intentional with what are the offices I'm going to go participate and consult.   because ultimately I want to keep growing myself and growing those offices, surrounding myself with people that I really admire and really respect on their leadership and come home so fulfilled to be a better leader. Because it's hard sometimes to stay that strong leader, but being around people like that's why I'm so happy you guys get to see us together. This is very rare that I actually podcast with a person in person. But to be able to see that, to be around it, I think fuels my soul and gives me encouragement because   The Dental A Team (46:28.848) Every time I've met you, Jason, I'm not the same person. You're not the same person. Our lives are not the same of where they were. So even if we said the same thing we said six months ago or two years ago, we're different people. So we're going to pick up different gems and keep evolving. And ultimately my goal is to grow with you and with your organization, myself and also my skills to constantly be able to serve at a higher level and serve more offices as well. Amen.   All right, that's a wrap. That's a wrap. I don't know how you end yours. I usually let my editor end it. How do you end yours? just copy. usually say, I obviously like thanks for having the convo. It was fun. agree. I agree. I love I love in person. I love the conversation. I can share information on Kiera's contact information. I'll share it in the show notes, some links and stuff like that.   But yeah, thanks for listening. Yeah, and I'll share links about Jason and I told you I'm so glad you have a podcast the world needs more Dentists and leaders like Jason and so just thanks for being here and as always thanks for listening We'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast and the Dental Lighthouse podcast. Thanks guys

We're taking a break from uploading new episodes this fall, but we're looking forward to a return in 2025.  Thank you to all of our listeners!     To take the Six Types of Working Genius Assessment: https://www.workinggenius.com/   Check out the 5 Dysfunctions of a Team Assessment: https://tinyurl.com/ttgteamassessment   To become a Working Genius Certified Facilitator: https://www.workinggenius.com/client/certification/ 

We're taking a break from uploading new episodes this fall, but we're looking forward to a return in 2025.  Thank you to all of our listeners!     To take the Six Types of Working Genius Assessment: https://www.workinggenius.com/   Check out the 5 Dysfunctions of a Team Assessment: https://tinyurl.com/ttgteamassessment   To become a Working Genius Certified Facilitator: https://www.workinggenius.com/client/certification/ 

In this episode of the Just Schools Podcast, Jon Eckert interviews Abby Andrietsch, CEO of St. Augustine Preparatory Academy, in Milwaukee. They discuss the school's rapid growth since its founding in 2017 and its mission to serve a diverse student body with excellence. Andrietsch shares insights into how Aug Prep has become one of the top-rated schools in the state and the transformative impact it has had on the surrounding community, including a 43% reduction in crime. The Just Schools Podcast is brought to you by the Baylor Center for School Leadership. Each week, we'll talk to catalytic educators who are doing amazing work. Be encouraged. Join us on October 15th at the Hurd Welcome Center for an in-person information session to hear more about the MA in School Leadership and the EdD in K-12 Educational Leadership. This is a free event but we need you to register here: https://app.e2ma.net/app2/audience/signup/2003682/1973032/ Connect with us: Baylor MA in School Leadership EdD in K-12 Educational Leadership Jon Eckert LinkedIn Twitter: @eckertjon Center for School Leadership at Baylor University: @baylorcsl   Transcript: Jon: So today we have Abby with us. She is one of my favorite school leaders from one of my favorite schools in the country, St. Augustine Prep in Milwaukee. And so I want to start, before we jump into how you came to this, just tell the audience about Aug Prep, how it started and where it's at right now. Abby: Awesome. Thanks, Jon. So Aug Prep is not necessarily the typical story. We actually just started, we launched in 2017. So in a lot of ways we are a baby as an organization, but we have grown a lot since we launched. We serve today 2200 students on Milwaukee's South Side. We have the privilege of serving about 86% of our students would be considered low income, more than 95% students of color. And they just have all the potential in the world, same potential as my own kids who are actually also students here. But we started in 2017 with a vision of being part of bigger, something bigger in Milwaukee to serve students with excellence. Milwaukee does have a voucher program, which created a lot of opportunity for us and we chose, our founders chose as we launched to start as a Christian school very intentionally knowing we'd get about a thousand dollars less per people. But that Jesus being at the core of everything we do was really essential. And we started with four pillars, faith, family, excellence in academics, and athletics and arts. And I think a lot of schools do one or two of those really well, some even three. But it's rare that you see the four pieces coming together with excellence. And for us, I would say that's really the critical part of the fabric of who we are is serving our students with excellence, but serving the whole child with excellence. Jon: No, and I get to visit there and Erik Ellefsen, our Director of Networks and Improvement Communities has been talking about Aug Prep for years. I finally got to visit this past summer and it is a truly remarkable place. If I remember correctly, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, when your school started in the neighborhood that you were in, there was a dramatic reduction in crime in the neighborhood, literally transformed the neighborhood. In my mind it's like 42%. What's the actual number? Do you remember the actual number Abby? Abby: I do. It's 43, so you're really close We opened our doors, crime in our neighborhoods gone down by about 43%. Jon: Yeah, that's amazing. And that's what we want. We don't want just schools that are isolated things. We want schools that really serve their communities well and the communities that serve the school well. And so love that statistical evidence that this really has made a difference. Now you just purchased a college campus on the North Side of Milwaukee. So talk about that and where you're headed because again, that's a big play to make right now, especially with some of the buildings that I know may not even be usable. I don't even know all the details, but where are you at in that process, Abby? Abby: So I have a business background, we'll get to that later, but we weren't planning this. The candor is it was an opportunity that God created that we kind of jumped in fully for. On the North Side of Milwaukee, there is a college, it was Cardinal Stritch that closed about three months before our founders were there for an event. It was the first time they had been there and they walked around thinking this place was meant to be a school. And really long story short, the school was purchased. We are launching a second campus on Milwaukee's North Side. What I'm most excited about is actually the school is located in a place that bridges a lot of communities in Milwaukee from more affluent, whiter suburbs to some of the toughest zip codes in Milwaukee. And it's a really unique location. And actually the college that was there before, their history includes a deep history of faith and a deep history of diversity. And our vision for this campus is to create a campus that reflects the world we live in, where our kids are part of our diverse socioeconomic, cultural, racial student body, all grounded and unified and being in Christ, but seeing and valuing the differences in each other and learning and growing with each other through that. Jon: Love that vision, love the opportunity that wasn't even being sought out. I mean, it's so much of what Aug Prep's story is that you've just had your work multiplied in so many ways, which has been really meaningful. And now just another thing that stuck in my head. You're one of the, if not the top-rated school in Milwaukee. In what measure? How is that determined, Abby? Abby: So I mentioned earlier we're part of a voucher system in the state as such, and I'm a big believer in parent choice. And as we get public funds, being accountable to serving kids well. So I lead with the and academic excellence and serving the whole child Jesus, intertwined and grounding every piece of that. We are per the state's report card in the top 2% of growth of any schools in the state. We are the number one K to 12 school in Milwaukee, the number two in the state. We've gone back and forth between one and two. And that for me is a number. But numbers matter. I look at those numbers as necessary but not sufficient measures of, "Are we serving our students and our families well?" Jon: Love that example of excellence. And anytime you can measure growth and not just status proficiency, which can be based on the demographics of your school or the location and the educational attainment of parents, you actually are saying, "Here's where they come in and here's where they grow." And I love the point that it's necessary but not sufficient. And so in this conversation about choice and what that looks like, certainly in Texas, that's a really polarizing conversation right now. At the center, we want to serve leaders who are doing great work to serve each kid wherever they're called to serve. And so that's how we came across you. So tell us how you got into this role of CEO of this startup school that now was purchased a college campus. How do you get into that? You have a fairly non-traditional journey. So would you mind sharing that? Abby: I do have a non-traditional journey. My training and education is a lot more on the business side. It was actually when I was in graduate school that I stepped from a room full of business leaders talking about what I thought I wanted to go into totally disheartened because I realized it wasn't what I wanted to do and I stepped into a room with people with business backgrounds working in education, and it was a light moment for me, a light bulb moment. That in and of itself led me down working with some different national foundations. Gone back and forth in the corporate world a little bit, but I had the chance in Milwaukee almost 15 years ago to co-found an organization that worked with leaders from our local public schools, charter schools, and also private schools. And Aug Prep didn't exist at that point in time. And it was a group of leaders that came together around kids and quality and not politics of the adults really in the city. And I spent about eight years getting to work with that organization, helping great schools grow, schools that wanted to get better, get better. We had a whole team of coaches that walked and worked with school leaders. I actually personally stepped away from that after eight years, wanting a little bit more time with my kids and to be the mom that I wanted to be. I just realized that the balance, it was a stage in life where I needed to step back. And about a year later I found myself in the interim role at Aug Prep, vehemently planning to be interim. And five and a half years later, I couldn't be happier to be here. Both of my kids are here. That was actually part of the decision to go from interim to full-time was my family made a decision to move closer to the school and to have our kids here. And it has just been God's, I think, biggest blessing for us in the last five and a half years through it all. Jon: Well, great example of the fact that I don't really think work-life balance exists. I think it's something that we always strive to attain. I've yet to meet anyone who's achieved it. And so I think there's work-life rhythm. So knowing when your family needs more of you. And then if you can get healthy work-life integration, which I think is what you've done, that's a win. That's a win. Abby: I think of it as harmony. So I like your rhythm, but I don't believe in work-life balance. But I do think there's a harmony that comes together and it looks different at different times. Jon: Well, and to be clear, so I give attribution, I think it's Adam Grant's work-life rhythm he talks about. I really like that. I think that's useful. So when you think about the challenges ahead for Aug Prep specifically, you're in a particular context. I mean Milwaukee is a gigantic voucher experiment that's been going on for decades. So it's in a different kind of context than a lot of people. But what do you see as the biggest challenges to really being what you aspire to be at Aug Prep? That's one of the things I was impressed by this summer, you might be the number one or number two school in the state of Wisconsin for growth, but there definitely wasn't a sense that you had it all figured out. It felt like you all knew that there's places where you could get better and we're striving to do that. And that was what our work was together and how we do that joyfully. But in that joy there are challenges. And that joy doesn't mean it's the freedom from struggle. Joy is actually the fuel to struggle well, so when we lay these challenges out, that's not to depress the audience, but it's to be honest about, "Here are the challenges you see." So if you were to identify one, two, or three challenges ahead for Aug Prep, especially as you expand, what would you identify? Abby: Yeah. Well we've been a mixed expansion really since we started. In some ways we've added the equivalent of an additional school almost every year since we've opened. If I go big picture, I think the biggest challenge that we have as a community, but I would say this as a country as well, I just see it much more intensely as a community would be a lack of belief and a lack of hope. So for our kids, especially in certain parts of Milwaukee, we have far too many kids that are 12, 13, 14 years old that are being told that they're never going to live to be 18, 19, 20. So just do what you want. Our kids need to be believed in and they need a sense of hope. And what I love about what I get to do is that hope gets to be Jesus grounded every day. In my last role, I didn't get to. Who I was as a leader, was deeply grounded in faith, but it wasn't an overt part of my job. But as we think about the work we do that hope is eternal and earthly, but I think we have generations that have been failed, especially in our cities by our education system. And so how do we create a sense of hope where they don't see it from their past? And that's a big part. But along with that is a sense of belief in what's possible. And I would argue that any of the kids that walk through our doors here at Aug Prep are just as capable as my own kids. They're just as capable as kids from our suburbs. And there are far too many adults that see the challenges, which are real, that they step in and through our doors with and don't believe that they can succeed at high levels. And I think the difference in what we do here is we do believe in what's possible. We set the bar high for them, equip them with tools to fly. But that lack of hope is I think one of our biggest challenges because it's mindset change, not just for our kids but for our community. If I get tactical, we've been growing a lot and so we've always got to think about how do we hire great people? We're very intentional. We have a super rigorous process that people don't love going through, but when they're on the team, they love what it creates. Thinking about the growth that we've had in the last two years, we've hired more than 75 new staff each of the last two years. We've had more than 600 new students each of the last two years. That's a big deal. Both hiring enough great people, I would argue even more important is creating, keeping, and protecting the culture that we've worked so hard to build. And so being really intentional about finding, developing, onboarding really great team members and even more, how do we be really intentional as new kids, as new staff come onboard? Having that culture that isn't created by lack of intention, but instead is there from the get-go. And actually it's gotten stronger each of the last couple of years as a result. Jon: Well, two things on that. You certainly will be a case study in the next book that I'm working on, which is Gritty Optimism: Catalyzing Joy in Just Schools. Because I think you're doing this in this powerful way where that optimism you have is grounded in the experience of what you've seen since 2017. You've seen kids become more of who they're created to be, and that becomes this virtuous cycle of improvement where you're not basing it on naive optimism where it's like, "I hope they'll be better or I think they could be better." You know they can be more of who they're created to be because you've seen it over and over again and then that becomes part of the culture. The second part of that I wanted to ask is could you just briefly run through what your interview process is because that scale of hiring is remarkable in schools and trying to maintain culture and even improve culture doing that, that's a tremendous feat. So can you just describe what your interview process is? Abby: Yeah, that could be its own podcast. Jon: I'm sure. Yeah. Abby: And you can ask more. A couple of key pieces are part of it. A few years ago as a senior team, we took time to step back and say, "What are the most important characteristics of any team member at Aug Prep?" Could be a teacher, it could be administrator, could be one of our facilities, team members, security guard. And we identified three key pieces. And for us, the first and foremost is an active and living faith walk with Jesus. The second is growth mindset and coachability. If you're an educator that's been in the work for 30 years, you don't think you have anything to grow and you want to coast, we're not the place to come. There are great places for educators that are there to go, but it's just not the right culture for us. And the third is actually belief and belief in our kids and our community and what's possible. Those three things are built into every step of the process. From phone interview to essays, we ask people to write as part of the process to in-person. In addition to the core capabilities of any role, it's how are we really intentional? And we have a really diverse staff. I mean just even racially and ethnically, about 45% of our staff is diverse and we're working to make sure that that's throughout our organization and everybody is unified in certain places, Jesus being first and foremost and a desire to grow and learn. And so that in and of itself creates a place that staff members want to be and stay. So our goal is every year to have at least 90% of our staff stay. We've been between 85 and 90% for the last several years, 85 and 95% for the last several years. Our best source of new staff is our current team. And so when people want to tell, we just had a team member whose sister and brother-in-law moved across the country from California. They were looking at Ohio and at Aug Prep. And when you have team members that love what they do and where they work every day, it's the best way for us to recruit new staff. And it's been a really big part of how we do what we do. At the end of the day, we try to make sure every decision we make is around kids first. We are not a place that makes adult first decisions, and we recognize that in order to best serve our kids, we have to have a strong and healthy team. So there's a tension and balance that goes there, but I also think it means that we recruit team members with a really high bar for themselves with belief for kids, and that want to be in a place that strives to serve kids well. And that in and of itself creates that culture I talked about. Jon: I've been able to see that. Again, I need to be at Aug Prep when there are kids there because that's when it's fun. Abby: Yeah, you do. Jon: But in the team that you have, we have four of them that are in our master's program at Baylor. So Aug Prep has becomes some kind of a strange pipeline for Milwaukee to Waco Texas. But I see that in your team, they are building other leaders all the time. We always say leaders are always building leaders. And so they're encouraging the next group of people from Aug Prep. And I hope that we always have a nice conduit work. With your growth, you're going to need to continue growing leadership hopefully indefinitely, and you need partners to do that. We want to be that kind of catalytic partner for you where we can connect Aug Prep leaders with other schools because so many times, especially in the Christian school world, there's a lot of navel-gazing about, "These are our problems and nobody else's and nobody understands our context and nobody understands these challenges." And what I've loved about the leaders that you've sent to us at Baylor is they're always looking to get more information and understand other contexts and figure out what they can take back to Aug Prep and then share out what is and isn't working at Aug Prep. And so that is a way to not only build culture, but actually accelerate that culture development. So really encouraged there. So we talked about the challenges, but you already kind of jumped into the opportunities you see, but what would be the thing you're most excited about for the year ahead for Aug Prep? And then we'll jump into a lightning round, but what are you most excited about for the year ahead and the opportunities you see? Abby: I'm most excited about, so this year ahead, we graduate our first group of college graduates. So I'm starting to see, I'll have finished my sixth year at the end of this school year. I'm just getting to see the ripple effects and I already see them. One of our graduates from just this last year is at Marquette. He's going on a service trip over Christmas this fall. He's talking about coming back and talking to our young men and women in chapel. And so just seeing the ripple effect of the leadership that's leaving. And he's actually a young man that would self-identify as lucky he didn't get kicked out in middle school, got in a lot of trouble. We do a lot around restorative practices. I know one of our fellows is doing a lot within the Baylor program around that. And it's so cool to watch our kids go from really struggling with themselves as much as it is with others and often with faith underneath to really flourishing and shining as young adults. And I can't wait to see what happens in the community. So big picture, I'm probably most excited about watching some of our first class of graduates stepping into that next step of the journey. I think sometimes, and Jon, we've got four fellows at Baylor. You didn't ask me to do this, but we're a learning organization. There's a lot of things we're doing well. There's a lot of things we're still learning how to do. We want to share what we're doing, but how do we learn from others? And our fellows are down at Baylor because they're in a place that seeks to do that too. I've watched you and I've watched the Baylor school leadership, the Center for School leadership. It's not about faith or academic excellence, faith or serving the whole child. You all lead with that and that I talked about being really important and you create space for our leaders to learn. And I think I often run into folks that say, "Well, you all are different. We can't do what Aug Prep is doing." I don't actually think we've done anything that's remarkably special or different. What we've done is pulled best practices from a lot of places and continued every year to think about how we get better, who do we need to learn from or what do we need to do differently? And we've been able to get bigger and better at the same time. We haven't arrived. I hope we never do because I think part of the culture of who we are is actually that constant mindset of what do we need to keep doing better to serve our kids and community? Jon: Love that attitude. Thank you. Thank you for that encouragement. And we just want to find more partners like you because they're out there. How do we connect other Aug Preps to this Aug Prep? People with a similar kind of mission and view and where can we learn together? And that's, I think as a Christian R1 University, that's our call is to help connect those pieces. So I'm grateful for the hard work you do or the work that the Lord does through you in the community because that's the evidence that it actually matters. Because we can talk about these things in platitudes all the time and sit down here at a university and say, "Hey, here's what we think people should do." What we need to see is what people are doing and where that's making a difference for kids. So let's jump to the lightning round. So I know you have pulled from a lot of great ideas, so I'm curious if in the last year there's a really good book you might recommend to me and to us that you're like, "This was a super helpful book", whether it's in education or not, just a good book that you've read the last year. Or listened to. It's fine. Audible counts too. Abby: I do listen to a lot of books. I love to read, but I often find myself falling asleep when I sit down or lie down to read a little bit. You know what? I am a big believer in reading a lot of different things and pulling the pieces that apply most to your circumstances. So you talked about Adam Grant. I love reading his books. Anything Patrick Lencioni, I've read multiple times. We've pulled pieces from Jim Collins, Good to Great and Built to Last. And so I would say any of those pieces. We read as a leadership group last year, Fierce Conversations, there's several takes of that, Radical Candor being one of them. But my probably biggest encouragement is be a reader. And for me it's been, those are all more leadership organizational books. When I'm really wrestling with a topic, I try to read the full spectrum of perspectives on it to then figure out where I'm at and finding those books. Just Teaching is one that I did just pick up in the last year, so I hadn't had a chance to see it before then, but it was one that I picked up and I'm not a teacher and so that's not my skill set, but there are pieces to learn and to then share with other people. Jon: Yeah, I love that. And it's really common, Abby, I hope you know that I am typically mentioned Lencioni, Adam Grant, Jim Collins, Jon Eckert. That's kind of the normal group that I'm mentioned. So that's comforting to know that. Abby: You know what actually what ties all of those people together, Jon, is you don't just think in theory. So when you write, you're not just thinking in theory. And I will own that that can be my struggle with higher ed is sometimes just being caught up in the theory. It's all of those leaders who are also authors think about how you take the theory and apply it in practice and how do you break it down in a way that is easy to digest. And so Lencioni writes in fables, Adam Grant tells his stuff in a lot of stories as well. And so that's, at least for me, usually I capture lessons learned by seeing things either I'm struggling with or trying to figure out how to put words into in stories that other people are talking about. Jon: Yeah. Well, and I love all those same authors for the same reason. And then is this Fierce Conversation because this the one by Susan Scott, is that who you? Abby: Yeah. Jon: So I have not read that one. It looks like another one I should read. So thank you for that. So let's start with this. Worst piece of advice you've ever given or received? Abby: Worst piece of advice? Jon: It could be a leadership piece. Abby: I had somebody tell me that I was taking somebody else's spot in business school because I wasn't sure if at some point I'd want some time to stop and be a mom. And so that was probably the worst piece of advice and my encouragement for anyone listening is that I think there's different phases of life. I also think that any education we get can be applied to lots of aspects of what we do. Jon: Yeah, no, that's good. I'm assuming that was because that was your degree at Stanford when you were getting question on that, right? I can't imagine. Abby: Right. And that was an awesome degree, but I actually had a whole conversation. It was someone in a generation that fought so that people like I can make the decisions that are best for me. But I think they fought for the choice, not for the decision themselves. And I appreciate being able to make it myself. Jon: That's well said. That's another podcast that we could do on how those choices get made. And so really grateful for that background you have because I think your curiosity and your ability to synthesize theory and apply it, I mean that comes great degree programs will do that. And obviously Stanford knows something about educating people, so that's good. Then best piece of advice you've ever given or received? Abby: Not to seek perfection, but always to strive to keep getting better. I think we get caught up in trying to be perfect and miss the opportunity to keep getting better. Jon: That's our favorite quote we use with our improvement communities. That your plan is possibly wrong and is definitely incomplete. So that should be empowering. There's places to grow. Then if you could in a word or a phrase, describe what Aug Prep will be in the next year, what would it be? So word or phrase for Aug Prep that would describe it in the next year? Abby: My hope is that it is a light on the hill. How do we be a light for the community, not just the kids in our building, but the whole community outside our building as well? Jon: Love that, beautiful sentiment. Well, Abby, thank you for being with us. Thanks for the work you do at Aug Prep. It's great to have partners like you because you make us all better. Abby: Thanks, Jon. Appreciate it.  

We've mentioned in the past that we think the modern workplace is in a 'conflict drought'.  This week, Pat, Cody and Beau discuss the relationship between trust and conflict, and get to the bottom of what we're really missing.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   This week's unpaid ad: https://tinyurl.com/movetocolorado

What makes Discernment unique, and why is it often so difficult to accurately place within our results?  This week, Pat, Cody and Beau discuss the perceived implications behind having - or not having - Discernment as a Working Genius.   To listen to the At the Table Podcast: tinyurl.com/atthetablepodcast

Welcome back to Season 12 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast, where we connect the science-based evidence behind social and emotional learning and emotional intelligence training for improved well-being, achievement, productivity, and results using practical neuroscience. In Episode 344, we continue with our 18-week self-leadership series, diving into Chapter 14 of Grant Bosnick's book to explore the neuroscience of resiliency. We revisit past episodes with Horacio Sanchez to understand the factors that contribute to resilience and discuss the intriguing analogies presented by Bosnick, including the donkey in the well and the carrot, egg, and coffee bean story. Learn how to build resilience within yourself and your teams by focusing on Patrick Lencioni's five functions of a high-performing team. Discover how developing willpower, a crucial faculty of the mind, can enhance your ability to overcome adversity. We also delve into new research on the anterior mid-cingulate cortex, a brain region associated with willpower and resilience. Join us as we uncover strategies to harness resilience, strengthen our brains, and emerge stronger from life's challenges. Don't miss this insightful episode that equips you with the tools to face adversity head-on and lead with resilience. On today's EPISODE #344 “The Neuroscience of Resilience: Building Stronger Minds and Teams” we will cover: ✔ A review of past EP 74 and EP 286 on “Building Resiliency, Grit and Mental Toughness” ✔ A review of Horacio Sanchez's work on resiliency: protective vs risk factors. ✔ Ch. 14 from Grant Bosnick's Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership book with 2 intriguing analogies presented by Bosnick, including the donkey in the well and the carrot, egg, and coffee bean story. ✔ Learn how to build resilience within yourself and your teams by focusing on Patrick Lencioni's five functions of a high-performing team. Discover how developing willpower, a crucial faculty of the mind, can enhance your ability to overcome adversity. ✔ Discover how developing willpower, a crucial faculty of the mind, can enhance your ability to overcome adversity. ✔ We also delve into new research on the anterior mid-cingulate cortex, a brain region associated with willpower and resilience. For Today, EPISODE #344, we are moving on to Chapter 14, reviewing “The Neuroscience of Resiliency,” a topic we have covered a few times on this podcast, way back with Horacio Sanchez, who named his Educational Consulting Business Resiliency Inc. back on EP #74[i] and then we did a deep dive Brain Fact Friday on EP #286 “Building Resiliency, Grit and Mental Toughness.”[ii] On this episode we reviewed Horacio Sanchez's definition of resiliency as “a collection of protective risk factors that you have in your life” and that there are some factors we are born with, and others come in through childhood, family, school, life events and social experiences. Horacio reminds us that “if you have little risk, it takes less to be resilient. But—if you have a lot of risk, it takes a lot more protective factors to offset the scale.”  This is why two people can possibly respond in two completely different ways after a traumatic experience. One person walks away, dusts themselves off, and recovers quickly, (they had more reservoirs of resilience to tap into) while the other has a completely different outcome, and needs more assistance to get back on track. With resiliency, we can overcome adversity or difficulty and have good outcomes in our life, but you can see why not everyone is born with exactly the same protective factors needed, so we don't all have the same levels of resiliency. Horacio mentioned that “25% of the population are naturally resilient” and his work focuses on instilling this trait in those who are not naturally resilient due to the number of risk factors associated to them. To this day, he continues with his mission, flying around the country, helping our next generation of students to become more resilient. Resiliency came out as a low priority for me with the with 0% (Pathway 5) along with Change and Agility, and it makes more sense to me now that I understand the protective and risk factors that I faced growing up as a child, from my family, from school, life and social events. When I review the list, I can see that I was fortunate to have more protective factors, than risk.   IMAGE FROM EP 74 with Horacio Sanchez. If you've taken the leadership self-assessment[iii], look to see if Resilience (in Pathway 5) along with change and agility, is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year. If you haven't listened to EP 74, or 286, where we dove deeper into the building resiliency, grit and mental toughness, I highly encourage that you listen to both of these episodes, in addition to what we will uncover today on resiliency.   So what does Grant Bosnick have to say about building resilience in ourselves, and our teams in chapter 14 of his book? He opens up the chapter with a situation with a farmer and his donkey, who had fallen into a hole in the ground, (a well) and couldn't get out. Finally, after trying to get the donkey out, he gave up, and decided to shovel dirt into the well, since the donkey was old, and not worth saving. At first Grant writes that the donkey cried with the dirt being shoveled onto him, until he eventually stopped and was quiet. When the farmer looked into the hole he was amazed at what he saw. With each shovel of dirt, the donkey would shake it off his back, and use the dirt to climb up higher, until he was able to easily step out of the hole and trot off happily. What Grant is showing us at the start of this chapter is that we all will have dirt shoveled on our backs in our life, and “that we can either get buried in the dirt or shake it off and take a step up. Each adversity we face is a stepping stone, and we can get out of the deepest wells by shaking off the dirt and taking a step up.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 160). There was another analogy in Grant's book that I liked, about a carrot, an egg and a cup of coffee.  The story went like this. There was a young woman who went to her mother one day, complaining the things were difficult for her with her life. Her mother took her into the kitchen and filled three pots with water, and placed them on the elements, bringing each one to a boil. One pot she placed carrots in, the second, an egg and the third one, coffee beans. After 20 minutes, she asked her daughter what she saw. Her mother's explanation was eye-opening. She explained to her daughter that “each of these objects faced the same adversity—boiling water. Each reacted differently. The carrot went in strong, hard and unrelenting. However, after being subjected to the boiling water, it was softer and became weak. The egg was fragile…but after being in the boiling water, it's inside became hardened. The ground coffee beans were unique, however. (Bosnick writes that) after being in the boiling water, they changed the water…(and the mother asked her daughter) when adversity faces you, how do you respond? Are you a carrot, an egg or a coffee bean?” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 161). Grant asks the reader of his book to think about this question. Which one would you pick? “Are you the carrot that seems strong but with pain and adversity (wilted) and became soft, losing its strength? Are you the egg that starts with a soft heart, but hardens with the heat? Or are you like the coffee bean that actually changes the hot water, the very circumstance that (brought) the pain?” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 161). I'm hoping that we all desire to experience change with the adversity we face. Bosnick gives two real-life examples of famous people who took their pain, and changed for the better, because of it. Terry Fox, a distance runner from British Columbia, Canada was his first example and Kawhi (Ka-why) Leonard, a professional basketball player from the NBA. You can look up these stories, if you don't know them already. Growing up in Canada, I remember Terry Fox's story well. Terry Fox took the pain of a cancer diagnosis that led to one of his legs being amputated and replaced with an artificial leg, and rather than giving up, or becoming hard or soft, he changed the situation with his Marathon of Hope.  It was “first held in 1981, and has now grown to involve millions of participants in over 60 countries and is now the world's largest one-day fundraiser for cancer research, with over $750 million Canadian dollars raised in his name.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 162). Bosnick reminds us that “resilience is not only about bouncing back from adversity, but rather it is about surviving and thriving through the stress caused by the adversity, and changing our situation to make it better.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 162). Building Resilience in Ourselves and Then with Our Teams After Bosnick focused on building resilience in ourselves, he went on to show how to build resilience in our teams, and he mentioned a book, that we have recently talked about with mediation expert John Ford, from EP 340.[iv]   I love making connections with past episodes, and when I read Bosnick mention The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni[v], I went straight back to that episode with John Ford. In chapter 14, Bosnick outlines “the five dysfunctions of teams: absence of trust, fear of conflict, lack of commitment, avoidance of accountability, and inattention to results. (Next he outlines) the five functions of a high performing team: trust, absence of fear of conflict, commitment, accountability and attention to results.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 170). Bosnick writes that “when we feel accountable and have attention to results, we adopt a mindset or attitude of control, which enables us to take direct, hands-on action to transform changes, adversities and the problems that they may cause…If we believe that we can influence the outcome of an adverse situation, we are more apt to push ourselves to deal with it. If the opposite is true, we may question our ability to turn adversity around and stop trying.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 171). When I think of a recent time that I faced adversity, and had to be resilient in the process, if I didn't think it would be possible for me to be successful, there is no way I would have persevered. Each individual on a team must have this mindset, as they go through change and adversity. The focus must be on Lencioni's work: “building a high functioning team—with trust, absence of fear of conflict, commitment, accountability and attention to results—(that) will lead to proactive behaviors and increase our own (personal) resilience and the resilience in our team.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 171). Bosnick offers a reflection activity in Chapter 14 where he asks the reader to: Think of an adverse situation that you are facing at the moment (could be in your work or personal life). Consider how this situation is making you feel. I'm going to add that if you feel like the situation is in control of you, then you are not going to win. You' ve got to be confident that YOU are in control of whatever it is that you are going through. How can you adopt a more prosocial mindset to see the adversity as opportunity to make things better for yourself and others? Thinking of the carrots, the egg and the coffee bean. What will it take to get you to become the coffee bean? How can you help yourself and your team to be more high functioning? Thinking of Lencioni's 5 Dysfunctions of a Team, how will you help your team to move towards trust, absence of fear of conflict, commitment, accountability and attention to results? Developing Our Will to Overcome Adversity:  What will it REALLY take for you to become more resilient and overcome adversity? It will take a highly developed Will Power. We have talked about how to develop this faculty of our mind on EP #294[vi] where we dove deep into the 6 Faculties of our Mind, with our Will Power being one of them. I do highly recommend listening to this episode if you want to review these important faculties. Since I can always use a refresher myself, I'll highlight what we covered on this important faculty that we will need to develop, to overcome adversity. YOUR WILL: This is one of my favorite faculties. (out of the 6: along with our ability to reason, use our intuition, perception, memory and imagination). This one (The use of the Will) gives you the ability to concentrate. While sitting down to write this episode, I've gotten up from my desk a few times, but I'm determined to finish writing this, so I can record and release this today. That's the will at work. You can also use the will to hold a thought on the screen of your mind, or choose thoughts of success, over thoughts of failure. OR-use the power of your Will to overcome the adversity you face, like Terry Fox, or Kawhi (Ka-why) Leonard. If you have a highly evolved will, you'll lock into doing something, block out all distractions, and accomplish what you set out to do. HOW TO DEVELOP THIS FACULTY TO OVERCOME CHALLENGE OR ADVERSITY? Developing the will takes practice. Meditation can strengthen your will, but so can staring at a candle flame until you and the flame become one. I tried this activity in my late 20s, and remember it was a few hours of staring at this candle flame, before I was able to block out the distractions of the outside world, and the flame extended towards me.  This faculty, like the others, takes time and practice, but once you've developed this faculty, you'll know you have the ability to sit, focus, and do anything. An extension of this activity would be that once you and the flame have become one, try to change the color of the flame. In your head say “blue, blue, blue” and watch the color of the flame turn to blue. Pick a different color and see if you can quickly change the color of the flame from blue, to red, to orange, to whatever color you think of.” This activity will strengthen your will. BRINGING IN THE NEUROSCIENCE: It was here that I wondered what neuroscience has to say about this topic. We have covered The Neuroscience of Resiliency on past episodes, but we have not yet covered some new research that Dr. Andrew Huberman discovered this past year about what happens to our brain when we have a highly developed Will Power, that we will need to overcome adversity and challenge. This new research actually made famous scientist jump out of his chair. DID YOU KNOW that there is a part of the brain called “the Anterior mid cingulate cortex. This area is not just one of the seats of willpower but scientists think it holds the secret in “the will to live?”[vii] When I first heard about this part of the brain, I knew it was important for overcoming adversity, and helping us to become more resilient. Scientists discovered that this part in the brain increases in size when we do something we don't want do, like exercising when we would rather not, or diet or resist eating something we know is bad for us, when we would rather eat the old way. Dr. Huberman shared on this eye-opening episode with his guest, David Goggins that “when people do anything that they don't want to do, it's not about adding more work, it's about adding more work that you don't want to do, this brain area gets bigger.” This part of the brain is larger in athletes, larger in people who overcome challenge, and as long as people continue to “do difficult things” this area of the brain keeps its size. To me, this shows that building resilience in ourselves and our teams is not just good for whatever challenge we are looking to overcome, but we are building stronger, more resilient brains: specifically, stronger anterior mid cingulate cortexes. REVIEW AND CONCLUSION To review and conclude this week's episode #344 on “The Neuroscience Behind Building Resilience in Yourself and Your Teams” we covered: A review of EP 74 and 286 where we covered the Neuroscience of Resilience with Horacio Sanchez's work reminding us that our protective or risk factors in our lifetime, will determine how resilient we will be in our life. While 25% of the population are naturally resilient, Horacio asserts that “if you have little risk, it takes less to be resilient. But—if you have a lot of risk, it takes a lot more protective factors to offset the scale.” Horacio has dedicated his life to helping our next generation become more resilient. Next we looked at Grant Bosnick's book, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership (Chapter 14) where he gave us the analogy of the donkey who fell into the well, and demonstrated resiliency when he used the dirt shoveled on him, to climb out. This example taught us that we all will have dirt shoveled on our backs in our life, and “that we can either get buried in the dirt or shake it off and take a step up. Each adversity we face is a stepping stone, and we can get out of the deepest wells by shaking off the dirt and taking a step up.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 160). Another analogy we learned was through the mother and daughter story, and that when adversity faces you, Bosnick asks us to reflect. “Are you the carrot that seems strong but with pain and adversity (wilted) and became soft, losing its strength? Are you the egg that starts with a soft heart, but hardens with the heat? Or are you like the coffee bean that actually changes the hot water, the very circumstance that (brought) the pain?” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 161). I'm hoping that we all desire to experience change with the adversity we face, like the coffee bean. After learning about building resiliency in ourselves, we learned about building resiliency within our teams, and looked at Patrick Lencioni's The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. The absence of trust, fear of conflict, lack of commitment, avoidance of accountability, and inattention to results. Then we learned to turn this around, using the five functions of a high performing team: trust, absence of fear of conflict, commitment, accountability and attention to results.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 170). Then we looked at how we develop resiliency, using our Will Power from EP 294 where I shared an activity to strengthen this faculty of our mind either through meditation, or with an activity of staring at a candle flame, and with time, effort and sheer will power, blocking out everything else around you, until you and the candle flame become one. Finally, we looked at the fascinating new neuroscience behind the part of our brain (the anterior mid cingulate cortex) that becomes bigger when we use our will power to do those things we don't want to do. Scientists believe this ability to use our will power to do difficult things, which builds our resiliency, is what's really behind the will to live. I hope you've found this episode on building resilience in yourself and your teams as valuable as I have, and that when challenge comes our way in the future, that we continue to lean into it, using every ounce of our will power, and become a coffee bean, emerging stronger than the challenge we faced, and knowing that this process is building a part of our brain (our anterior mid cingulate cortex) to be bigger, helping us to continue to do difficult things in our future. With that thought, I'll close out this episode and see you next time, with two interviews coming, to help us to continue to build stronger versions of ourselves this year. I'll see you next week. REFERENCES:   [i] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #74 with Horacio Sanchez on “How to Apply Brain Science to Improve Instruction and School Climate” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/leading-brain-science-and-resiliency-expert-horatio-sanchez-on-how-to-apply-brain-science-to-improve-instruction-and-school-climate/   [ii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #286 on “Building Resiliency, Grit and Mental Toughness”  https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/brain-fact-friday-on-building-resiliency-grit-and-mental-toughness/   [iii] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick's book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/   [iv] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #340 “Navigating Workplace Conflicts: Insights from a Mediation Expert, John Ford”  https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/navigating-workplace-conflicts-insights-from-a-mediation-expert/   [v] The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni Published April 11, 2002 https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Fable/dp/0787960756   [vi]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #294 “Beyond Our 5 Senses: Using the 6 Faculties of our Mind” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/beyond-our-5-senses-understanding-and-using-the-six-higher-faculties-of-our-mind/   [vii] How to Build Will Power Dr. Andrew Huberman with David Goggins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84dYijIpWjQ        

Join the dialogue - text your questions, insights, and feedback to The Dignity Lab podcast.In this episode, Jennifer discusses the importance of core values and how they provide direction in decision-making and shaping one's life. She provides strategies for identifying core values, such as telling stories of peak experiences and thinking about people you admire. Jennifer also emphasizes the need to choose a limited number of core values and to nurture and revisit them regularly. She highlights the obstacles to living out core values, including a lack of clarity, lack of alignment with others, and external pressures. Jennifer concludes by encouraging listeners to reflect on their own values and consider revisiting them regularly.Episode ResourcesByrtek, G. J., & Dickerson, M. (2013). Actualizing organizational core values: Putting theory into practice. Business Management Dynamics, 3(2), 7-25.Lencioni, P. M. (2002). Make your values mean something. Harvard Business Review, 80(7), 113-117.Longenecker, P. D. (2013). The Positive Impact of Individual Core Values. Journal of Business Ethics, 115(3), 429-434.Key TakeawaysCore values are guiding principles that reflect what is most important to you and provide direction in decision-making.Strategies for identifying core values include telling stories of peak experiences and thinking about people you admire.Choose a limited number of core values and nurture and revisit them regularly.Obstacles to living out core values include a lack of clarity, alignment with others, and external pressures.Exploring what it means to live and lead with dignity at work, in our families, in our communities, and in the world. What is dignity? How can we honor the dignity of others? And how can we repair and reclaim our dignity after harm? Tune in to hear stories about violations of dignity and ways in which we heal, forgive, and make choices about how we show up in a chaotic and fractured world. Hosted by physician and coach Jennifer Griggs.For more information on the podcast, please visit www.thedignitylab.com.For more information on podcast host Dr. Jennifer Griggs, please visit https://jennifergriggs.com/.For additional free resources, including the periodic table of dignity elements, please visit https://jennifergriggs.com/resources/.The Dignity Lab is an affiliate of Bookshop.org and will receive 10% of the purchase price when you click through and make a purchase. This supports our production and hosting costs. Bookshop.org doesn't earn money off bookstore sales, all profits go to independent bookstores. We encourage our listeners to purchase books through Bookshop.org for this reason.

There are certain parts of an organization that cannot be changed without essentially refounding the whole company.  This week, the team talks about core values.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   This week's unpaid ad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doughnut

At work, we can't always use our Geniuses as much as we'd like.  This week, Pat, Cody, Beau and Matt discuss how we can find ways to exercise our Geniuses while we're off the clock.     To listen to the At the Table Podcast: tinyurl.com/atthetablepodcast   Working Genius Store: https://www.workinggenius.com/store

Authority and humility are not mutually exclusive.  This week, the team talks about the role of a leader and the importance of perspective, dignity, and self-awareness.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   Unpaid ad: https://tinyurl.com/golfscramblerules

What is your third letter?  This week, the team discusses the impact that your first Working Competency has on the way you use your Geniuses.     To listen to the At the Table Podcast: tinyurl.com/atthetablepodcast   Working Genius Store: https://www.workinggenius.com/store

To avoid pain at the expense of your core values and purpose is a terrible idea.  This week, Pat and the team discuss the growth curve and how organizations must approach the navigation of inevitable downturns.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   The Leadr Advantage: https://www.leadr.com/table-group

In today's episode, Dr. Addison Killeen dives into the wisdom of his favorite author, Patrick Lencioni, renowned for his compelling stories on teamwork, leadership, and organizational health. Tune in as Dr. Killeen highlights his top 5 book recommendations and resources from Lencioni that can transform your dental practice and elevate your leadership skills.

What is the best way to tap into each Genius?  This week, the team goes over the questions we can ask and the high-impact phrases we can use to successfully engage and activate each Working Genius type.   Collaborating with Each Genius Handout: https://tinyurl.com/wgcollaborationresource   Working Genius Certification Program: https://workinggenius.me/certpodcast23   To listen to the At the Table Podcast: tinyurl.com/atthetablepodcast

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.  This week, Pat and the team discuss the causes of mediocrity, and why it comes with costs beyond the financial.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   This week's unpaid ad: https://no.co/brands/noco-boost

Episode originally aired January 20th, 2021.   One hour coaching hack: how your team can give and receive invaluable coaching feedback in less than an hour.  Tune in to this week's episode to hear Pat, Cody and Tracy share some of their own feedback that has helped them grow in their work and life.  

Episode originally aired July 8th, 2020.   Stop waiting for "normal" to return. Do it now! Pat, Cody and Chris discuss decision making and action in the midst of uncertainty.  In your businesses, in your families and in your personal lives, it's time to plant your friggin tree.

Episode originally aired March 4th, 2022.   Buckle up!  This week, the Working Genius team reveals all of the pairings in our longest episode yet.  

This episode originally aired March 10, 2021.     We often avoid saying things that need to be said because we're afraid of sounding like a jerk.  This week, Pat, Cody and Tracy talk about the importance of having the courage to be a "little-j jerk."

This episode originally aired February 17, 2021.   We don't hate change, we just struggle with transition.  This week, Pat, Cody and Tracy discuss the real reason why people are afraid of change.

This week's rerun originally aired on January 21, 2022   We've talked about the altitude of each Genius, the 3 stages of work, regulating your Genius, and the Genius of meetings.  What do you get when you roll all of these concepts together?  A new Working Genius framework that applies to any conversation at work.

Invulnerability is ugly, and it can crush a team.  This week, Pat, Cody, Tracy and Beau talk about how we can root out invulnerability in ourselves and explain why our relationships will improve as a result.   To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   This week's unpaid ads: www.gethalls.com/relief and www.tacobell.com 

If you aren't regularly utilizing your Working Geniuses, you won't be able to take full advantage of your strengths.  This week, Pat and the team discuss atrophy as it relates to the Working Genius model.     To listen to the At the Table Podcast: tinyurl.com/atthetablepodcast

In this episode of the Coach Approach Ministries podcast, Brian Miller, Executive Director, and Chad Hall, President, dive into the intriguing world of the Working Genius assessment developed by Patrick Lencioni. They explore their complex feelings about assessments, sharing personal anecdotes and experiences with this particular tool. The conversation highlights how Working Genius helps teams understand and enhance their processes from ideation to execution, emphasizing the six key geniuses: wonder, invention, discernment, galvanization, enablement, and tenacity. Brian and Chad discuss the practical applications, potential limitations, and the assessment's ability to foster meaningful dialogue and improve team dynamics. Whether you're a fan of Lencioni's work or curious about how to leverage your team's unique strengths, this episode provides valuable insights and a balanced perspective on the benefits and challenges of using such assessments in professional settings.   FOLLOW US: LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/company/coach-approach-ministries Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/coach.approach.ministries Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@coachapproachministries7538 Website: www.coachapproachministries.org

A studio can spend millions of dollars promoting a movie, but we're still most likely to see it when it's recommended by a friend.  This week, Pat and the team discuss the difference in impact that hearing something directly from another person can have.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast

It's a productivity tool, not just a personality assessment.  This week, Pat and the team dissect a team map and describe how it can be used to make any team more effective.     To take the Six Types of Working Genius Assessment: https://www.workinggenius.com/   To listen to the At the Table Podcast: tinyurl.com/atthetablepodcast

Conflict is never comfortable - and it isn't meant to be.  This week, Pat and the team discuss the nature of conflict, and how it can be used not only to more effectively achieve strategic objectives, but also to strengthen relationships within a team.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   This week's unpaid ad: Pickleball?   Contact us at podcast@tablegroup.com

Decisions should always be pushed to the lowest possible level, closest to where they will be making the most impact.  This week, the team discusses the influence of the customer on culture, strategy, and decision-making at the executive level.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   This week's unpaid ad: https://www.dutchbros.com/

Young people and students are no strangers to feeling overwhelmed, misunderstood, and anxious.  This week, Pat and the team speak directly to students, parents, teachers and administrators about how the Working Genius model - and the new version of the assessment - can be utilized to set up students for success.     Working Genius for Students Assessment: https://www.workinggenius.com/students   To listen to the At the Table Podcast: tinyurl.com/atthetablepodcast

If a leader does not provide employees with a primary motivation, something else will fill that gap.  This week, Pat and the team discuss alignment around clarity and the difference between micro and macro motivations.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   This week's unpaid ad: https://badbirdiegolf.com/    

Alan interviews Pat Lencioni for part 2 of our Working Genius series. This episode focuses on how to apply The Working Genius to teams. This is THE best assessment we've ever seen for team alignment and common language. We are honored to have The Working Genius as a sponsor for this podcast. Go take the assessment at www.WorkingGenius.com. If you would like Alan to lead a training to translate this assessment into your tea, email us at hello@stayforth.com About Pat Lencioni Pat is one of the founders of The Table Group and is the pioneer of the organizational health movement. He is the author of 13 books, which have sold over 8 million copies and been translated into more than 30 languages. As President of the Table Group, Pat spends his time speaking and writing about leadership, teamwork, and organizational health and consulting with executives and their teams. Prior to founding the firm in 1997, Pat worked at Bain & Company, Oracle Corporation and Sybase. Pat lives in the Bay Area with his wife and four boys. Takeaways Understanding the six types of working genius can transform teams and improve productivity and morale. Borrowing geniuses across teams can lead to increased innovation and success. Understanding frustrations can be liberating and prevent burnout. The team map is a valuable tool for visualizing the distribution of geniuses and frustrations within a team. Using the vocabulary of working genius can improve team communication and project flow. Understanding individual and team dynamics is crucial for improving productivity and avoiding conflict. The concept of working genius identifies six types of genius that individuals possess. Clarity and communication are essential for ensuring alignment within teams. Working genius can be connected to other concepts introduced by Lencioni, such as the five dysfunctions of a team and the ideal team player. Taking the working genius assessment can provide valuable insights for individuals and teams. Quotables "Nobody on their team had the genius of wonder." "Let's just put people in the right role and give them the right responsibilities that correspond to what gives them joy and energy." "She has enablement, which means whenever a customer or an employee says, I need help, she's right there." "You have to see how it comes about. And we know it's going to be painful for you." "People can now actually call each other out on things in a way that doesn't feel like they're being judged or attacked, but they're being honored." "People talk to one another using the language of working genius, which in a good way objectifies feedback that used to feel personal."  

Where are the spikes in your day?  This week, the team compares their energy levels throughout the day to an EKG, and explains how we can take advantage of this awareness.     To take the Six Types of Working Genius Assessment: https://www.workinggenius.com/   Industry-Specific Webinars: https://www.workinggenius.com/webinars   This week's unpaid ad: https://tinyurl.com/theboysintheboatBOOK

An organization's culture lives through its values, and values are first demonstrated in hiring.  This week, Pat, Cody and Beau discuss the insitututionalization of culture through the intentional application of values.     Staffing Industry Webinar - Tuesday, May 21: https://www.workinggenius.com/webinars   This week's unpaid ad - The Three Big Questions for a Frantic Family:  https://www.tablegroup.com/product/frantic/   To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast

Three years of using the Working Genius model to explain, analyze, and even anticipate behavior has led us to some interesting observations.  This week, Pat, Cody and Beau discuss the words and phrases that each Genius - and each Genius pairing - often says.     Staffing Industry Webinar - Tuesday, May 21: https://www.workinggenius.com/webinars   To listen to the At the Table Podcast: tinyurl.com/atthetablepodcast

What are the two simplest indicators for determining the health of an organization's culture?  This weel, Pat, Cody and Tracy talk about the importance of alignment and engagement among the executive team as well as the happiness and connectedness of the employees who impact the culture the most.     The Two Simplest Indicators: How is the executive team?  Are they engaged, and how do they interact with each other?   Who are the employees that impact the culture the most?  Does each person on the executive team agree on who those people are, and are those employees happy with their roles?   To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   This week's unpaid ad: https://www.nickthegreek.com/

What you see is what you get.  This week, Pat and the team discuss the importance of visual simplicity, and how we can manage others knowing that they will always focus on what is right in front of them.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   To register for Industry Webinars: https://tinyurl.com/IndustryWebinars

Beware of the lone dissenter.  This week, Pat and the team discuss the danger of allowing a single voice to override the interests of the team.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   To register for Industry Webinars: https://tinyurl.com/IndustryWebinars   Unpaid ad: Banana Milk

Create your own competitive advantage.  This week, Pat and the team discuss unwritten rules, agility, and courage.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   Pat's book, The Advantage: https://www.tablegroup.com/product/the-advantage/   This week's unpaid ad: https://tinyurl.com/CuttingEdgeFirewood

Which bubbles are you a part of?  This week, Pat and the team discuss the existence and implications of 'bubbles' as they relate to industries, expertise, and technology.     Register for Industry Webinars: https://tinyurl.com/IndustryWebinars   To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   Related Episodes: https://tinyurl.com/PatronSaintoftheIgnorant  

Please don't actually smell your customers.  This week, Pat, Cody, and Beau discuss why being in close proximity to customers and clients is necessary if we want our products and services to hit the mark.   The Working Genius Assessment for Students: https://www.workinggenius.com/students   To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast

The concepts of trust and conflict in the workplace are still just as simple as they were two decades ago.  This week, Pat and the team discuss their thoughts on 'psychological safety'.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   This week's unpaid ad: https://turo.com/    

'Eavesdropping' is a part of our organization's culture, and it helps our team stay on the same page.  This week, Pat and the team discuss the merits of having strategic conversations within earshot of your colleagues and giving others the opportunity to clue in to the content of your meetings.     To listen to the Working Genius Podcast: https://www.workinggenius.com/podcast   This week's unpaid ad - LOGE Camps: https://www.logecamps.com/home   Related Episodes: 167. The Never-Ending Meeting: https://www.tablegroup.com/167-the-never-ending-meeting/ 191. When Gossip is Good: https://www.tablegroup.com/191-when-gossip-is-good/