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Matt Forbeck is all that and so much more. He grew up in Wisconsin as what he describes as a wimpy kid, too short and not overly healthy. He took to gaming at a pretty early age and has grown to be a game creator, author and award-winning storyteller.   Matt has been designing games now for over 35 years. He tells us how he believes that many of the most successful games today have stories to tell, and he loves to create some of the most successful ones. What I find most intriguing about Matt is that he clearly is absolutely totally happy in his work. For most of Matt's career he has worked for himself and continues today to be an independent freelancer.   Matt and his wife have five children, including a set of quadruplets. The quadruplets are 23 and Matt's oldest son is 28 and is following in his father's footsteps.   During our conversation we touch on interesting topics such as trust and work ethics. I know you will find this episode stimulating and worth listening to more than once.     About the Guest:   Matt Forbeck is an award-winning and New York Times-bestselling author and game designer of over thirty-five novels and countless other books and games. His projects have won a Peabody Award, a Scribe Award, and numerous ENnies and Origins Awards. He is also the president of the Diana Jones Award Foundation, which celebrates excellence in gaming.    Matt has made a living full-time on games and fiction since 1989, when he graduated from the Residential College at the University of Michigan with a degree in Creative Writing. With the exception of a four-year stint as the president of Pinnacle Entertainment Group and a year and a half as the director of the adventure games division of Human Head Studios, he has spent his career as an independent freelancer.   Matt has designed collectible card games, roleplaying games, miniatures games, board games, interactive fiction, interactive audiobooks, games for museum installations, and logic systems for toys. He has directed voiceover work and written short fiction, comic books, novels, screenplays, and video game scripts and stories. His work has been translated into at least 15 languages.   His latest work includes the Marvel Multiverse Role-Playing Game Core Rulebook, the Spider-Verse Expansion, Monster Academy (novels and board game), the Shotguns & Sorcery 5E Sourcebook based on his novels, and the Minecraft: Roll for Adventure game books. He is the father of five, including a set of quadruplets. He lives in Beloit, Wisconsin, with his wife and a rotating cast of college-age children. For more about him and his work, visit Forbeck.com.   Ways to connect with Matt:   Twitter: https://twitter.com/mforbeck Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/forbeck Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/forbeck.com Threads: https://www.threads.net/@mforbeck Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mforbeck/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/forbeck/ Website: https://www.forbeck.com/     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset today. We get to play games. Well, not really, but we'll try. Our guest is Matt Forbeck, who is an award winning author. He is a game designer and all sorts of other kinds of things that I'm sure he's going to tell us about, and we actually just before we started the the episode, we were talking about how one might explore making more games accessible for blind and persons with other disabilities. It's, it's a challenge, and there, there are a lot of tricks. But anyway, Matt, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here.   Matt Forbeck ** 02:02 Well, thank you, Michael for inviting me and having me on. I appreciate it.   Speaker 1 ** 02:06 I think we're going to have a lot of fun, and I think it'll work out really well. I'm I am sure of that. So why don't we start just out of curiosity, why don't you tell us kind of about the early Matt, growing up?   Matt Forbeck ** 02:18 Uh, well, I grew up. I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I grew up in a little town called Beloit, Wisconsin, which actually live in now, despite having moved away for 13 years at one point, and I had terrible asthma, I was a sick and short kid, and with the advent of medication, I finally started to be healthy when I was around nine, and Part of that, I started getting into playing games, right? Because when you're sick, you do a lot of sitting around rather than running around. So I did a lot of reading and playing games and things like that. I happen to grow up in the part of the world where Dungeons and Dragons was invented, which is in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, about 30 miles from where I live. And because of that I was I started going to conventions and playing games and such, when I was about 12 or 13 years old. I started doing it when I was a little bit older. I started doing it professionally, and started doing it when I was in college. And amazingly enough, even to my own astonishment, I've made a career out of it.   Speaker 1 ** 03:17 Where did you go to college? I went to the University   Matt Forbeck ** 03:21 of Michigan over in Ann Arbor. I had a great time there. There's a wonderful little college, Beloit College, in my hometown here, and most of my family has gone to UW Milwaukee over the years. My parents met at Marquette in Milwaukee, but I wanted to get the heck out of the area, so I went to Michigan, and then found myself coming back as soon as we started having   Speaker 1 ** 03:42 kids well, and of course, I would presume that when you were at the University of Michigan, you rooted for them and against Ohio State. That was   Matt Forbeck ** 03:50 kind of, you know, if you did it the other way around, they back out of town. So, yeah, I was always kind of astonished, though, because having grown up in Wisconsin, where every sports team was a losing team when I was growing up, including the Packers, for decades. You know, we were just happy to be playing. They were more excuse to have beers than they were to cheer on teams. And I went to Michigan where they were, they were angry if the team wasn't up by two touchdowns. You know, at any point, I'm like, You guys are silly. This is we're here for fun.   Speaker 1 ** 04:17 But it is amazing how seriously some people take sports. I remember being in New Zealand helping the Royal New Zealand Foundation for the Blind. Well now 22 years ago, it's 2003 and the America's Cup had just finished before we got there, and in America beat New Zealand, and the people in New Zealand were just irate. They were complaining that the government didn't put enough money into the design of the boat and helping with the with the yacht and all that. It was just amazing how seriously people take it, yeah,   Matt Forbeck ** 04:58 once, I mean, it becomes a part of your. Identity in a lot of ways, right for many people, and I've never had to worry about that too much. I've got other things on my mind, but there you go.   Speaker 1 ** 05:08 Well, I do like it when the Dodgers win, and my wife did her graduate work at USC, and so I like it when the Trojans win, but it's not the end of the world, and you do need to keep it in perspective. I I do wish more people would I know once I delivered a speech in brether County, Kentucky, and I was told that when I started the speech had to end no later than preferably exactly at 6:30pm not a minute later, because it was the night of the NCAA Basketball Championship, and the Kentucky Wildcats were in the championship, and at 630 everyone was going to get up and leave and go home to watch the game. So I ended at 630 and literally, by 631 I timed it. The gym was empty and it was full to start with.   Matt Forbeck ** 06:02 People were probably, you know, counting down on their watches, just to make sure, right?   Speaker 1 ** 06:06 Oh, I'm sure they were. What do you do? It's, it is kind of fun. Well, so why did you decide to get started in games? What? What? What attracted to you, to it as a young person, much less later on?   Matt Forbeck ** 06:21 Well, I was, yeah, I was an awkward kid, kind of nerdy and, you know, glasses and asthma and all that kind of stuff. And games were the kind of thing where, if you didn't know how to interact with people, you could sit down at a table across them and you could practice. You can say, okay, we're all here. We've got this kind of a magic circle around us where we've agreed to take this one silly activity seriously for a short period of time, right? And it may be that you're having fun during that activity, but you know, there's, there's no reason that rolling dice or moving things around on a table should be taken seriously. It's all just for fun, right? But for that moment, you actually just like Las Vegas Exactly, right? When there's money on the line, it's different, but if you're just doing it for grins. You know, it was a good way for me to learn how to interact with people of all sorts and of different ages. And I really enjoyed playing the games, and I really wanted to be a writer, too. And a lot of these things interacted with story at a very basic level. So breaking in as a writer is tough, but it turned out breaking as a game designer, wasn't nearly his stuff, so I started out over there instead, because it was a very young field at the time, right? D and D is now 50 years old, so I've been doing this 35 years, which means I started around professionally and even doing it before that, I started in the period when the game and that industry were only like 10 or 15 years old, so yeah, weren't quite as much competition in those   Speaker 1 ** 07:43 days. I remember some of the early games that I did play, that I could play, were DOS based games, adventure. You're familiar with adventure? Yeah, oh, yeah. Then later, Zork and all that. And I still think those are fun games. And I the reason I like a lot of those kinds of games is they really make you think, which I think most games do, even though the video even the video games and so on, they they help your or can help your reactions, but they're designed by people who do try to make you think,   Matt Forbeck ** 08:15 yeah. I mean, we basically are designing puzzles for people to solve, even if they're story puzzles or graphic puzzles or sound puzzles or whatever, you know, even spatial puzzles. There the idea is to give somebody something fun that is intriguing to play with, then you end up coming with story and after that, because after a while, even the most most exciting mechanics get dull, right? I mean, you start out shooting spaceships, but you can only shoot spaceships for so long, or you start out playing Tetris, and you only put shapes together for so long before it doesn't mean anything that then you start adding in story to give people a reason to keep playing right and a reason to keep going through these things. And I've written a lot of video games over the years, basically with that kind of a philosophy, is give people nuggets of story, give them a plot to work their way through, and reward them for getting through different stages, and they will pretty much follow you through anything. It's amazing.   Michael Hingson ** 09:09 Is that true Dungeons and Dragons too?   Matt Forbeck ** 09:13 It is. All of the stories are less structured there. If you're doing a video game, you know you the team has a lot of control over you. Give the player a limited amount of control to do things, but if you're playing around a table with people, it's more of a cooperative kind of experience, where we're all kind of coming up with a story, the narrator or the Game Master, the Dungeon Master, sets the stage for everything, but then the players have a lot of leeway doing that, and they will always screw things up for you, too. No matter what you think is going to happen, the players will do something different, because they're individuals, and they're all amazing people. That's actually to me, one of the fun things about doing tabletop games is that, you know, the computer can only react in a limited number of ways, whereas a human narrator and actually change things quite drastically and roll. With whatever people come up with, and that makes it tremendous fun.   Speaker 1 ** 10:04 Do you think AI is going to enter into all that and maybe improve some of the   Matt Forbeck ** 10:09 old stuff? It's going to add your end to it, whether it's an ad, it's going to approve it as a large question. Yeah. So I've been ranting about AI quite a bit lately with my friends and family. But, you know, I think the problem with AI, it can be very helpful a lot of ways, but I think it's being oversold. And I think it's especially when it's being oversold for thing, for ways for people to replace writers and creative thinking, Yeah, you know, you're taking the fun out of everything. I mean, the one thing I like to say is if, if you can't be bothered to write this thing that you want to communicate to me, I'm not sure why I should be bothered to read this thing well.   Speaker 1 ** 10:48 And I think that AI will will evolve in whatever way it does. But the fact of the matter is, So do people. And I think that, in fact, people are always going to be necessary to make the process really work? AI can only do and computers can only do so much. I mean, even Ray Kurzweil talks about the singularity when people and computer brains are married, but that still means that you're going to have the human element. So it's not all going to be the computer. And I'm not ready to totally buy into to what Ray says. And I used to work for Ray, so I mean, I know Ray Well, but, but the but the bottom line is, I think that, in fact, people are always going to be able to be kind of the, the mainstay of it, as long as we allow that, if we, if we give AI too much power, then over time, it'll take more power, and that's a problem, but that's up to us to deal with?   Matt Forbeck ** 11:41 No, I totally agree with that. I just think right now, there's a very large faction of people who it's in their economic interest to oversell these things. You know, people are making chips. They're building server farms. A lot of them are being transferred from people are doing blockchain just a few years ago, and they see it as the hot new thing. The difference is that AI actually has a lot of good uses. There's some amazing things will come out of llms and such. But I again, people are over the people are selling this to us. Are often over promising things, right?   Speaker 1 ** 12:11 Yeah, well, they're not only over promising but they're they're really misdirecting people. But the other side of it is that, that, in fact, AI as a concept and as a technology is here, and we have control over how we use it. I've said a couple times on this this podcast, and I've said to others, I remember when I first started hearing about AI, I heard about the the fact that teachers were bemoaning the pack, that kids were writing their papers just using AI and turning them in, and it wasn't always easy to tell whether it was something that was written by AI or was written by the student. And I come from a little bit different view than I think a lot of people do. And my view basically is, let the kids write it if with AI, if that's what they're going to do, but then what the teacher needs to do is to take one period, for example, and give every student in that class the opportunity to come up and defend whatever paper they have. And the real question is, can they defend the paper? Which means, have they really learned the subject, or are they just relying on AI,   Matt Forbeck ** 13:18 yeah, I agree with that. I think the trouble is, a lot of people, children, you know, who are developing their abilities and their morals about this stuff, they use it as just a way to complete the assignment, right? And many of them don't even read what they turn in, right, right? Just know that they've got something here that will so again, if you can't be bothered to read the thing that you manufactured, you're not learning anything about it,   Speaker 1 ** 13:39 which is why, if you are forced to defend it, it's going to become pretty obvious pretty fast, whether you really know it or not. Now, I've used AI on a number of occasions in various ways, but I use it to maybe give me ideas or prepare something that I then modify and shape. And I may even interact with AI a couple of times, but I'm definitely involved with the process all the way down the line, because it still has to be something that I'm responsible for.   Matt Forbeck ** 14:09 I agree. I mean, the whole point of doing these things is for people to connect with each other, right? I want to learn about the ideas you have in your head. I want to see how they jive with ones in my head. But if I'm just getting something that's being spit out by a machine and not you, and not being curated by you at any point, that doesn't seem very useful, right? So if you're the more involved people are in it, the more useful it is.   Speaker 1 ** 14:31 Well, I agree, and you know, I think again, it's a tool, and we have to decide how the tool is going to be used, which is always the way it ought to be. Right?   Matt Forbeck ** 14:42 Exactly, although sometimes it's large corporations deciding,   Speaker 1 ** 14:45 yeah, well, there's that too. Well, individuals,   Matt Forbeck ** 14:49 we get to make our own choices. Though you're right,   Speaker 1 ** 14:51 yes, and should Well, so, so when did you start bringing writing into what you. Did, and make that a really significant part of what you did?   Matt Forbeck ** 15:03 Well, pretty early on, I mean, I started doing one of the first things I did was a gaming zine, which was basically just a print magazine that was like, you know, 32 pages, black and white, about the different tabletop games. So we were writing those in the days, design and writing are very closely linked when it comes to tabletop games and even in video games. The trick of course is that designing a game and writing the rules are actually two separate sets of skills. So one of the first professional gig I ever had during writing was in games was some friends of mine had designed a game for a company called Mayfair games, which went on to do sellers of contain, which is a big, uh, entry level game, and but they needed somebody to write the rules, so they called me over, showed me how to play the game. I took notes and I I wrote it down in an easy to understand, clear way that people had just picked up the box. Could then pick it up and teach themselves how to play, right? So that was early on how I did it. But the neat thing about that is it also taught me to think about game design. I'm like, when I work on games, I think about, who is this game going to be for, and how are we going to teach it to them? Because if they can't learn the game, there's no point of the game at all, right?   Speaker 1 ** 16:18 And and so I'm right? I'm a firm believer that a lot of technical writers don't do a very good job of technical writing, and they write way over people's heads. I remember the first time I had to write, well, actually, I mentioned I worked for Kurzweil. I was involved with a project where Ray Kurzweil had developed his original omniprent optical character recognition system. And I and the National Federation of the Blind created with him a project to put machines around the country so that blind people could use them and give back to Ray by the time we were all done, recommendations as to what needed to go in the final first production model of the machine. So I had to write a training manual to teach people how to use it. And I wrote this manual, and I was always of the opinion that it had to be pretty readable and usable by people who didn't have a lot of technical knowledge. So I wrote the manual, gave it to somebody to read, and said, Follow the directions and and work with the machine and all that. And they did, and I was in another room, and they were playing with it for a couple of hours, and they came in and they said, I'm having a problem. I can't figure out how to turn off the machine. And it turns out that I had forgotten to put in the instruction to turn off the machine. And it wasn't totally trivial. There were steps you had to go through. It was a Data General Nova two computer, and you had to turn it off the right way and the whole system off the appropriate way, or you could, could mess everything up. So there was a process to doing it. So I wrote it in, and it was fine. But, you know, I've always been a believer that the textbooks are way too boring. Having a master's degree in physics, I am of the opinion that physics textbook writers, who are usually pretty famous and knowledgeable scientists, ought to include with all the text and the technical stuff they want to put in, they should put in stories about what they did in you bring people in, draw them into the whole thing, rather than just spewing out a bunch of technical facts.   Matt Forbeck ** 18:23 No, I agree. My my first calculus professor was a guy who actually explained how Newton and Leipzig actually came up with calculus, and then he would, you know, draw everything on the board and turn around say, and isn't that amazing? And you were, like, just absolutely enamored with the idea of how they had done these things, right? Yeah. And what you're doing there, when you, when you, when you give the instructions to somebody and say, try this out. That's a very big part of gaming, actually, because what we do this thing called play testing, where we take something before it's ready to be shown to the public, and we give it to other people and say, try this out. See how it works. Let me know when you're starting out of your first playing you play with like your family and friends and people will be brutal with you and give you hints about how you can improve things. But then, even when you get to the rules you're you send those out cold to people, or, you know, if you're a big company, you watch them through a two way mirror or one way mirror, and say, Hey, let's see how they react to everything. And then you take notes, and you try to make it better every time you go through. And when I'm teaching people to play games at conventions, for instance, I will often say to them, please ask questions if you don't understand anything, that doesn't mean you're dumb. Means I didn't explain it well enough, right? And my job as a person writing these rules is to explain it as well as I humanly can so it can't be misconstrued or misinterpreted. Now that doesn't mean you can correct everything. Somebody's always got like, Oh, I missed that sentence, you know, whatever. But you do that over and over so you can try to make it as clear and concise as possible, yeah.   Speaker 1 ** 19:52 Well, you have somewhat of a built in group of people to help if you let your kids get involved. Involved. So how old are your kids?   Matt Forbeck ** 20:03 My eldest is 26 he'll be 27 in January. Marty is a game designer, actually works with me on the marble tabletop role playing game, and we have a new book coming out, game book for Minecraft, called Minecraft role for adventure, that's coming out on July 7, I think, and the rest of the kids are 23 we have 423 year olds instead of quadruplets, one of whom is actually going into game design as well, and the other says two are still in college, and one has moved off to the work in the woods. He's a very woodsy boy. Likes to do environmental education with people.   Speaker 1 ** 20:39 Wow. Well, see, but you, but you still have a good group of potential game designers or game critics anyway.   Matt Forbeck ** 20:47 Oh, we all play games together. We have a great time. We do weekly game nights here. Sometimes they're movie nights, sometimes they're just pizza nights, but we shoot for game and pizza   Speaker 1 ** 20:56 if we get lucky and your wife goes along with all this too.   Matt Forbeck ** 21:00 She does. She doesn't go to the game conventions and stuff as much, and she's not as hardcore of a gamer, but she likes hanging out with the kids and doing everything with us. We have a great time.   Speaker 1 ** 21:10 That's that's pretty cool. Well, you, you've got, you've got to build an audience of some sorts, and that's neat that a couple of them are involved in it as well. So they really like what dad does, yeah,   Matt Forbeck ** 21:23 yeah. We, I started taking them each to conventions, which are, you know, large gatherings gamers in real life. The biggest one is Gen Con, which happens in Indianapolis in August. And last year, I think, we had 72,000 people show up. And I started taking the kids when they were 10 years old, and my wife would come up with them then. And, you know, 10 years old is a lot. 72,000 people is a lot for a 10 year old. So she can mention one day and then to a park the next day, you know, decompress a lot, and then come back on Saturday and then leave on Sunday or whatever, so that we didn't have them too over stimulated. But they really grown to love it. I mean, it's part of our annual family traditions in the summer, is to go do these conventions and play lots of games with each other and meet new people too well.   Speaker 1 ** 22:08 And I like the way you put it. The games are really puzzles, which they are, and it's and it's fun. If people would approach it that way, no matter what the game is, they're, they're aspects of puzzles involved in most everything that has to do with the game, and that's what makes it so fun.   Matt Forbeck ** 22:25 Exactly, no. The interesting thing is, when you're playing with other people, the other people are changing the puzzles from their end that you have to solve on your end. And sometimes the puzzle is, how do I beat this person, or how do I defeat their strategy, or how do I make an alliance with somebody else so we can win? And it's really always very intriguing. There's so many different types of games. There's nowadays, there's like something like 50 to 100 new board games that come out and tabletop games every month, right? It's just like a fire hose. It's almost like, when I was starting out as a novelist, I would go into Barnes and Noble or borders and go, Oh my gosh, look at all these books. And now I do the same thing about games. It's just, it's incredible. Nobody, no one person, could keep up with all of them.   Speaker 1 ** 23:06 Yeah, yeah, yeah, way too much. I would love to explore playing more video games, but I don't. I don't own a lot of the technology, although I'm sure that there are any number of them that can be played on a computer, but we'll have to really explore and see if we can find some. I know there are some that are accessible for like blind people with screen readers. I know that some people have written a few, which is kind of cool. Yeah.   Matt Forbeck ** 23:36 And Xbox has got a new controller out that's meant to be accessible to large amount of people. I'm not sure, all the different aspects of it, but that's done pretty well, too   Speaker 1 ** 23:44 well. And again, it comes down to making it a priority to put all of that stuff in. It's not like it's magic to do. It's just that people don't know how to do it. But I also think something else, which is, if you really make the products more usable, let's say by blind people with screen readers. You may be especially if it's well promoted, surprised. I'm not you necessarily, but people might well be surprised as to how many others might take advantage of it so that they don't necessarily have to look at the screen, or that you're forced to listen as well as look in order to figure out what's going on or take actions.   Matt Forbeck ** 24:29 No, definitely true. It's, you know, people audio books are a massive thing nowadays. Games tend to fall further behind that way, but it's become this incredible thing that obviously, blind people get a great use out of but my wife is addicted to audio books now. She actually does more of those than she does reading. I mean, I technically think they're both reading. It's just one's done with yours and one's done with your eyes.   Speaker 1 ** 24:51 Yeah, there's but there's some stuff, whether you're using your eyes or your fingers and reading braille, there's something about reading a book that way that's. Even so a little bit different than listening to it. Yeah, and there's you're drawn in in some ways, in terms of actually reading that you're not necessarily as drawn into when you're when you're listening to it, but still, really good audio book readers can help draw you in, which is important, too,   Matt Forbeck ** 25:19 very much. So yeah, I think the main difference for reading, whether it's, you know, again, through Braille or through traditional print, is that you can stop. You can do it at your own pace. You can go back and look at things very easily, or read or check things, read things very easily. That you know, if you're reading, if you're doing an audio book, it just goes on and it's straight on, boom, boom, boom, pace. You can say, Wait, I'm going to put this down here. What was that thing? I remember back there? It was like three pages back, but it's really important, let me go check that right.   Speaker 1 ** 25:50 There are some technologies that allow blind people and low vision people and others, like people with dyslexia to use an audio book and actually be able to navigate two different sections of it. But it's not something that is generally available to the whole world, at least to the level that it is for blind people. But I can, I can use readers that are made to be able to accept the different formats and go back and look at pages, go back and look at headings, and even create bookmarks to bookmark things like you would normally by using a pen or a pencil or something like that. So there are ways to do some of that. So again, the technology is making strides.   Matt Forbeck ** 26:37 That's fantastic. Actually, it's wonderful. Just, yeah, it's great. I actually, you know, I lost half the vision of my right eye during back through an autoimmune disease about 13 years ago, and I've always had poor vision. So I'm a big fan of any kind of way to make things easier,   Speaker 1 ** 26:54 like that. Well, there, there are things that that are available. It's pretty amazing. A guy named George curser. Curser created a lot of it years ago, and it's called the DAISY format. And the whole idea behind it is that you can actually create a book. In addition to the audio tracks, there are XML files that literally give you the ability to move and navigate around the book, depending on how it's created, as final level as you choose.   Matt Forbeck ** 27:25 Oh, that's That's amazing. That's fantastic. I'm actually really glad to hear that.   Speaker 1 ** 27:28 So, yeah, it is kind of fun. So there's a lot of technology that's that's doing a lot of different sorts of things and and it helps. But um, so for you, in terms of dealing with, with the games, you've, you've written games, but you've, you've actually written some novels as well, right?   Matt Forbeck ** 27:50 Yeah, I've got like 30, it depends on how you count a novel, right? Okay, like some of my books are to pick a path books, right? Choose Your Own Adventure type stuff. So, but I've got 35 traditional novels written or more, I guess, now, I lost track a while ago, and probably another dozen of these interactive fiction books as well. So, and I like doing those. I've also written things like Marvel encyclopedias and Avengers encyclopedias and all sorts of different pop culture books. And, you know, I like playing in different worlds. I like writing science fiction, fantasy, even modern stuff. And most of it, for me comes down to telling stories, right? If you like to tell stories, you can tell stories through a game or book or audio play or a TV show or a comic, or I've done, you know, interactive museum, games and displays, things like that. The main thing is really a story. I mean, if you're comfortable sitting down at a bar and having a drink with somebody, doesn't have to be alcohol, just sitting down and telling stories with each other for fun. That's where the core of it all is really   Speaker 1 ** 28:58 right. Tell me about interactive fiction book.   Matt Forbeck ** 29:01 Sure, a lot of these are basically just done, like flow charts, kind of like the original Zork and adventure that you were talking about where you I actually, I was just last year, I brought rose Estes, who's the inventor of the endless quest books, which were a cross between Dungeons and Dragons, and choose your own adventure books. She would write the whole thing out page by page on a typewriter, and then, in order to shuffle the pages around so that people wouldn't just read straight through them, she'd throw them all up in the air and then just put them back in whatever order they happen to be. But essentially, you read a section of a book, you get to the end, and it gives you a choice. Would you like to go this way or that way? Would you like to go beat up this goblin? Or would you like to make friends with this warrior over here? If you want to do one of these things, go do page xx, right? Got it. So then you turn to that page and you go, boom, some, actually, some of the endless quest books I know were turned into audio books, right? And I actually, I. Um, oddly, have written a couple Dungeons and Dragons, interactive books, audio books that have only been released in French, right? Because there's a company called Looney l, u n, i, i that has this little handheld device that's for children, that has an A and a B button and a volume button. And you, you know, you get to the point that says, if you want to do this, push a, if you want to do that, push B, and the kids can go through these interactive stories and and, you know, there's ones for clue and Dungeons and Dragons and all sorts of other licenses, and some original stories too. But that way there's usually, like, you know, it depends on the story, but sometimes there's, like, 10 to 20 different endings. A lot of them are like, Oh no, you've been killed. Go back to where you started, right? And if you're lucky, the longer ones are, the more fun ones. And you get to, you know, save the kingdom and rescue the people and make good friends and all that good stuff,   Michael Hingson ** 30:59 yeah, and maybe fall in love with the princess or Prince.   Matt Forbeck ** 31:02 Yeah, exactly right. It all depends on the genre and what you're working in. But the idea is to give people some some choices over how they want the story to go. You're like, Well, do you want to investigate this dark, cold closet over here, or would you rather go running outside and playing around? And some of them can seem like very innocent choices, and other ones are like, well, uh, 10 ton weight just fell on. You go back to the last thing.   Speaker 1 ** 31:23 So that dark hole closet can be a good thing or a bad thing,   Matt Forbeck ** 31:28 exactly. And the trick is to make the deaths the bad endings, actually just as entertaining as anything else, right? And then people go, Well, I got beat, and I gotta go back and try that again. So yeah, if they just get the good ending all the way through, they often won't go back and look at all the terrible ones. So it's fun to trick them sometimes and have them go into terrible spots. And I like to put this one page in books too that sometimes says, How did you get here? You've been cheating there. This book, this page, is actually not led to from any other part of the book. You're just flipping   Speaker 1 ** 31:59 through. Cheater, cheater book, do what you   Matt Forbeck ** 32:04 want, but if you want to play it the right way, go back.   Speaker 1 ** 32:07 Kid, if you want to play the game. Yeah, exactly. On the other hand, some people are nosy.   Matt Forbeck ** 32:15 You know, I was always a kid who would poke around and wanted to see how things were, so I'm sure I would have found that myself but absolutely related, you know,   Speaker 1 ** 32:23 yeah, I had a general science teacher who brought in a test one day, and he gave it to everyone. And so he came over to me because it was, it was a printed test. He said, Well, I'm not going to give you the test, because the first thing it says is, read all the instructions, read, read the test through before you pass it, before you take it. And he said, most people won't do that. And he said, I know you would. And the last question on the test is answer, only question one.   Matt Forbeck ** 32:55 That's great. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 32:57 that was cute. And he said, I know that. I that there's no way you would, would would fall for that, because you would say, Okay, let's read the instructions and then read the whole test. That's what it said. And the instruction were, just read the whole test before you start. And people won't do that.   Matt Forbeck ** 33:13 No, they'll go through, take the whole thing. They get there and go, oh, did I get there? Was a, there's a game publisher. I think it was Steve Jackson Games, when they were looking for people, write for them, or design stuff for them, or submit stuff to them, would have something toward the end of the instructions that would say, put like a the letter seven, or put seven a on page one right, and that way they would know if you had read the instructions, if you hadn't bothered to Read the instructions, they wouldn't bother reading anything else.   Speaker 1 ** 33:42 Yeah, which is fair, because the a little harsh, well, but, but, you know, we often don't learn enough to pay attention to details. I know that when I was taking physics in college, that was stressed so often it isn't enough to get the numbers right. If you don't get the units right as well. Then you're, you're not really paying attention to the details. And paying attention to the details is so important.   Matt Forbeck ** 34:07 That's how they crash from those Mars rovers, wasn't it? They somebody messed up the units, but going back and forth between metric and, yeah, and Imperial and, well, you know, it cost somebody a lot of money at one point. Yeah. Yeah. What do you   Speaker 1 ** 34:21 this is kind of the way it goes. Well, tell me, yeah. Well, they do matter, no matter what people think, sometimes they do matter. Well, tell me about the Diana Jones award. First of all, of course, the logical question for many people is, who is Diana Jones? Yeah, Diana Jones doesn't exist, right? That's There you go. She's part game somewhere? No, no, it doesn't be in a game somewhere.   Matt Forbeck ** 34:43 Then now there's actually an author named Diana Wynne Jones, who's written some amazing fantasy stories, including Howell's Moving Castle, which has turned into a wonderful anime movie, but it has nothing to do with her or any other person. Because originally, the Diana Jones award came about. Because a friend of mine, James Wallace, had somehow stumbled across a trophy that fell into his hands, and it was a pub trivia trophy that used to be used between two different gaming companies in the UK, and one of those was TSR, UK, the United Kingdom department. And at one point, the company had laid off everybody in that division just say, Okay, we're closing it all down. So the guys went and burned a lot of the stuff that they had, including a copy of the Indiana Jones role playing game, and the only part of the logo that was left said Diana Jones. And for some reason, they put this in a in a fiberglass or Plexiglas pyramid, put it on a base, a wooden base, and it said the Diana Jones award trophy, right? And this was the trophy that they used they passed back and forth as a joke for their pub trivia contest. Fell into James's hands, and he decided, You know what, we're going to give this out for the most excellent thing in gaming every year. And we've now done this. This will be 25 years this summer. We do it at the Wednesday night before Gen Con, which starts on Thursday, usually at the end of July or early August. And as part of that, actually, about five years ago, we started, one of the guys suggested we should do something called the emerging designers program. So we actually became a 501, c3, so we could take donations. And now we take four designers every year, fly them in from wherever they happen to be in the world, and put them up in a hotel, give them a badge the show, introduce them to everybody, give them an honorarium so they can afford to skip work for a week and try to help launch their careers. I mean, these are people that are in the first three years of their design careers, and we try to work mostly with marginalized or et cetera, people who need a little bit more representation in the industry too. Although we can select anybody, and it's been really well received, it's been amazing. And there's a group called the bundle of holding which sells tabletop role playing game PDFs, and they've donated 10s of 1000s of dollars every year for us to be able to do this. And it's kind of funny, because I never thought I'd be end up running a nonprofit, but here I'm just the guy who writes checks to the different to the emerging designer program. Folks are much more tied into that community that I am. But one of the real reasons I wanted to do something like that or be involved with it, because if you wander around with these conventions and you notice that it starts getting very gray after a while, right? It's you're like, oh, there's no new people coming in. It's all older people. I we didn't I didn't want us to all end up as like the Grandpa, grandpa doing the HO model railroad stuff in the basement, right? This dying hobby that only people in their 60s and 70s care about. So bringing in fresh people, fresh voices, I think, is very important, and hopefully we're doing some good with that. It's been a lot of fun either way.   Speaker 1 ** 37:59 Well, I have you had some success with it? Yeah, we've   Matt Forbeck ** 38:02 had, well, let's see. I think we've got like 14 people. We've brought in some have already gone on to do some amazing things. I mean, it's only been a few years, so it's hard to tell if they're gonna be legends in their time, but again, having them as models for other people to look at and say, Oh, maybe I could do that. That's been a great thing. The other well, coincidentally, Dungeons and Dragons is having its best 10 year streak in its history right now, and probably is the best selling it's ever been. So coinciding with that, we've seen a lot more diversity and a lot more people showing up to these wonderful conventions and playing these kinds of games. There's also been an advent of this thing called actual play, which is the biggest one, is a group called Critical Role, which is a whole bunch of voice actors who do different cartoons and video games and such, and they play D and D with each other, and then they record the games, and they produce them on YouTube and for podcasts. And these guys are amazing. There's a couple of other ones too, like dimension 20 and glass cannon, the critical role guys actually sold out a live performance at Wembley Arena last summer. Wow. And dimension. Dimension 20 sold out Madison Square Garden. I'm like, if you'd have told me 20 years ago that you know you could sell out an entire rock stadium to have people watch you play Dungeons and Dragons, I would have laughed. I mean, there's no way it would have been possible. But now, you know, people are very much interested in this. It's kind of wild, and it's, it's fun to be a part of that. At some level,   Speaker 1 ** 39:31 how does the audience get drawn in to something like that? Because they are watching it, but there must be something that draws them in.   Matt Forbeck ** 39:39 Yeah, part of it is that you have some really skilled some actors are very funny, very traumatic and very skilled at improvisation, right? So the the dungeon master or Game Master will sit there and present them with an idea or whatever. They come up each with their own characters. They put them in wonderful, strong voices. They kind of inhabit the roles in a way that an actor. A really top level actor would, as opposed to just, you know, me sitting around a table with my friends. And because of that, they become compelling, right? My Marty and my his wife and I were actually at a convention in Columbus, Ohio last weekend, and this group called the McElroy family, actually, they do my brother, my brother and me, which is a hit podcast, but they also do an actual play podcast called The Adventure zone, where they just play different games. And they are so funny. These guys are just some of the best comedians you'll ever hear. And so them playing, they actually played our Marvel game for a five game session, or a five podcast session, or whatever, and it was just stunningly fun to listen to. People are really talented mess around with something that we built right it's very edifying to see people enjoying something that you worked on.   Speaker 1 ** 40:51 Do you find that the audiences get drawn in and they're actually sort of playing the game along, or as well? And may disagree with what some of the choices are that people make?   Matt Forbeck ** 41:02 Oh, sure. But I mean, if the choices are made from a point of the character that's been expressed, that people are following along and they they already like the character, they might go, Oh, those mean, you know that guy, there are some characters they love to hate. There are some people they're they're angry at whatever, but they always really appreciate the actors. I mean, the actors have become celebrities in their own right. They've they sell millions of dollars for the comic books and animated TV shows and all these amazing things affiliated with their actual play stuff. And it's, I think it, part of it is because, it's because it makes the games more accessible. Some people are intimidated by these games. So it's not really, you know, from a from a physical disability kind of point. It's more of a it makes it more accessible for people to be nervous, to try these things on their own, or don't really quite get how they work. They can just sit down and pop up YouTube or their podcast program and listen into people doing a really good job at it. The unfortunate problem is that the converse of that is, when you're watching somebody do that good of a job at it, it's actually hard to live up to that right. Most people who play these games are just having fun with their friends around a table. They're not performing for, you know, 10s of 1000s, if not hundreds of 1000s of people. So there's a different level of investments, really, at that point, and some people have been known to be cowed by that, by that, or daunted by that.   Speaker 1 ** 42:28 You work on a lot of different things. I gather at the same time. What do you what do you think about that? How do you like working on a lot of different projects? Or do you, do you more focus on one thing, but you've got several things going on, so you'll work on something for one day, then you'll work on something else. Or how do you how do you do it all?   Matt Forbeck ** 42:47 That's a good question. I would love to just focus on one thing at a time. Now, you know the trouble is, I'm a freelancer, right? I don't set my I don't always get to say what I want to work on. I haven't had to look for work for over a decade, though, which has been great. People just come to me with interesting things. The trouble is that when you're a freelancer, people come in and say, Hey, let's work on this. I'm like, Yeah, tell me when you're ready to start. And you do that with like, 10 different people, and they don't always line up in sequence properly, right? Yeah? Sometimes somebody comes up and says, I need this now. And I'm like, Yeah, but I'm in the middle of this other thing right now, so I need to not sleep for another week, and I need to try to figure out how I'm going to put this in between other things I'm working on. And I have noticed that after I finish a project, it takes me about a day or three to just jump track. So if I really need to, I can do little bits here and there, but to just fully get my brain wrapped around everything I'm doing for a very complex project, takes me a day or three to say, Okay, now I'm ready to start this next thing and really devote myself to it. Otherwise, it's more juggling right now, having had all those kids, probably has prepared me to juggle. So I'm used to having short attention span theater going on in my head at all times, because I have to jump back and forth between things. But it is. It's a challenge, and it's a skill that you develop over time where you're like, Okay, I can put this one away here and work on this one here for a little while. Like today, yeah, I knew I was going to talk to you, Michael. So I actually had lined up another podcast that a friend of mine wanted to do with me. I said, Let's do them on the same day. This way I'm not interrupting my workflow so much, right? Makes sense? You know, try to gang those all together and the other little fiddly bits I need to do for administration on a day. Then I'm like, Okay, this is not a day off. It's just a day off from that kind of work. It's a day I'm focusing on this aspect of what I do.   Speaker 1 ** 44:39 But that's a actually brings up an interesting point. Do you ever take a day off or do what do you do when you're when you deciding that you don't want to do gaming for a while?   Matt Forbeck ** 44:49 Yeah, I actually kind of terrible. But you know, you know, my wife will often drag me off to places and say we're going to go do this when. Yes, we have a family cabin up north in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan that we go to. Although, you know, my habit there is, I'll work. I'll start work in the morning on a laptop or iPad until my battery runs out, and then I shut it down, put on a charger, and then I go out and swim with everybody for the rest of the day. So it depends if I'm on a deadline or not, and I'm almost always on a deadline, but there are times I could take weekends off there. One of the great things of being a freelancer, though, and especially being a stay at home father, which is part of what I was doing, is that when things come up during the middle of the week, I could say, oh, sure, I can be flexible, right? The trouble is that I have to pay for that time on my weekends, a lot of the time, so I don't really get a lot of weekends off. On the other hand, I'm not I'm not committed to having to work every day of the week either, right? I need to go do doctor appointments, or we want to run off to Great America and do a theme park or whatever. I can do that anytime I want to. It's just I have to make up the time at other points during the week. Does your wife work? She does. She was a school social worker for many years, and now as a recruiter at a local technical college here called Black Hawk tech. And she's amazing, right? She's fantastic. She has always liked working. The only time she stopped working was for about a year and a half after the quads were born, I guess, two years. And that was the only time I ever took a job working with anybody else, because we needed the health insurance, so I we always got it through her. And then when she said, Well, I'm gonna stay home with the kids, which made tons of sense, I went and took a job with a video game company up in Madison, Wisconsin called Human Head Studios for about 18 months, 20 months. And then the moment she told me she was thinking about going back to work, I'm like, Oh, good, I can we can Cobra for 18 months and pay for our own health insurance, and I'm giving notice this week, and, you know, we'll work. I left on good terms that everybody. I still talk to them and whatever, but I very much like being my own boss and not worrying about what other people are going to tell me to do. I work with a lot of clients, which means I have a lot of people telling me what to do. But you know, if it turns out bad, I can walk I can walk away. If it turns out good, hopefully we get to do things together, like the the gig I've been working out with Marvel, I guess, has been going on for like, four years now, with pretty continuous work with them, and I'm enjoying every bit of it. They're great people to work with.   Speaker 1 ** 47:19 Now, you were the president of Pinnacle entertainment for a little while. Tell me about that.   Matt Forbeck ** 47:24 I was, that was a small gaming company I started up with a guy named Shane Hensley, who was another tabletop game designer. Our big game was something called Dead Lands, which was a Western zombie cowboy kind of thing. Oh gosh, Western horror. So. And it was pretty much a, you know, nobody was doing Western horror back in those days. So we thought, Oh, this is safe. And to give you an example of parallel development, we were six months into development, and another company, White Wolf, which had done a game called Vampire the Masquerade, announced that they were doing Werewolf the Wild West. And we're like, you gotta be kidding me, right? Fortunately, we still released our game three months before there, so everybody thought we were copying them, rather than the other way around. But the fact is, we were. We both just came up with the idea independently. Right? When you work in creative fields, often, if somebody wants to show you something, you say, I'd like to look at you have to sign a waiver first that says, If I do something like this, you can't sue me. And it's not because people are trying to rip you off. It's because they may actually be working on something similar, right already. Because we're all, you know, swimming in the same cultural pool. We're all, you know, eating the same cultural soup. We're watching or watching movies, playing games, doing whatever, reading books. And so it's not unusual that some of us will come up with similar ideas   Speaker 1 ** 48:45 well, and it's not surprising that from time to time, two different people are going to come up with somewhat similar concepts. So that's not a big surprise, exactly, but   Matt Forbeck ** 48:56 you don't want people getting litigious over it, like no, you don't be accused of ripping anybody off, right? You just want to be as upfront with people. With people. And I don't think I've ever actually seen somebody, at least in gaming, in tabletop games, rip somebody off like that. Just say, Oh, that's a great idea. We're stealing that it's easier to pay somebody to just say, Yes, that's a great idea. We'll buy that from you, right? As opposed to trying to do something unseemly and criminal?   Speaker 1 ** 49:24 Yeah, there's, there's something to be said for having real honor in the whole process.   Matt Forbeck ** 49:30 Yeah, I agree, and I think that especially if you're trying to have a long term career in any field that follows you, if you get a reputation for being somebody who plays dirty, nobody wants to play with you in the future, and I've always found it to be best to be as straightforward with people and honest, especially professionally, just to make sure that they trust you. Before my quadruplets were born, you could have set your clock by me as a freelancer, I never missed a deadline ever, and since then, I've probably it's a. Rare earth thing to make a deadline, because, you know, family stuff happens, and you know, there's just no controlling it. But whenever something does happen, I just call people up and say, hey, look, it's going to be another week or two. This is what's going on. And because I have a good reputation for completing the job and finishing quality work, they don't mind. They're like, Oh, okay, I know you're going to get this to me. You're not just trying to dodge me. So they're willing to wait a couple weeks if they need to, to get to get what they need. And I'm very grateful to them for that. And I'm the worst thing somebody can do is what do, what I call turtling down, which is when it's like, Oh no, I'm late. And then, you know, they cut off all communication. They don't talk to anybody. They just kind of try to disappear as much as they can. And we all, all adults, understand that things happen in your life. It's okay. We can cut you some slack every now and then, but if you just try to vanish, that's not even possible.   Speaker 1 ** 50:54 No, there's a lot to be there's a lot to be said for trust and and it's so important, I think in most anything that we do, and I have found in so many ways, that there's nothing better than really earning someone's trust, and they earning your trust. And it's something I talk about in my books, like when live with a guide dog, live like a guide dog, which is my newest book, it talks a lot about trust, because when you're working with a guide dog, you're really building a team, and each member of the team has a specific job to do, and as the leader of the team, it's my job to also learn how to communicate with the other member of the team. But the reality is, it still comes down to ultimately, trust, because I and I do believe that dogs do love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally. But the difference between dogs and people is that people that dogs are much more open to trust, for the most part, unless they've just been totally traumatized by something, but they're more open to trust. And there's a lesson to be learned there. No, I   Matt Forbeck ** 52:03 absolutely agree with that. I think, I think most people in general are trustworthy, but as you say, a lot of them have trauma in their past that makes it difficult for them to open themselves up to that. So that's actually a pretty wonderful way to think about things. I like that,   Speaker 1 ** 52:17 yeah, well, I think that trust is is so important. And I know when I worked in professional sales, it was all about trust. In fact, whenever I interviewed people for jobs, I always asked them what they were going to sell, and only one person ever answered me the way. I really hoped that everybody would answer when I said, So, tell me what you're going to be selling. He said, The only thing I have to really sell is myself and my word, and nothing else. It really matters. Everything else is stuff. What you have is stuff. It's me selling myself and my word, and you have to, and I would expect you to back me up. And my response was, as long as you're being trustworthy, then you're going to get my backing all the way. And he was my most successful salesperson for a lot of reasons, because he got it.   Matt Forbeck ** 53:08 Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, I mean, I've worked with people sourcing different things too, for sales, and if you can rely on somebody to, especially when things go wrong, to come through for you. And to be honest with you about, you know, there's really that's a hard thing to find. If you can't depend on your sources for what you're building, then you can't depend on anything. Everything else falls apart.   Speaker 1 ** 53:29 It does. You've got to start at the beginning. And if people can't earn your trust, and you earn theirs, there's a problem somewhere, and it's just not going to work.   Matt Forbeck ** 53:39 Yeah, I just generally think people are decent and want to help. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've had issues. Car breaks down the road in Wisconsin. Here, if somebody's car goes in the ditch, everybody stops and just hauls them out. It's what you do when the quads were born, my stepmother came up with a sign up sheet, a booklet that she actually had spiral bound, that people could sign up every three three hours to help come over and feed and bathe, diaper, whatever the kids and we had 30 to 35 volunteers coming in every week. Wow, to help us out with that was amazing, right? They just each pick slots, feeding slots, and come in and help us out. I had to take the 2am feeding, and my wife had to take the 5am feeding by ourselves. But the rest of the week we had lots and lots of help, and we were those kids became the surrogate grandchildren for, you know, 30 to 35 women and couples really, around the entire area, and it was fantastic. Probably couldn't have survived   Speaker 1 ** 54:38 without it. And the other part about it is that all those volunteers loved it, because you all appreciated each other, and it was always all about helping and assisting.   Matt Forbeck ** 54:48 No, we appreciate them greatly. But you know every most of them, like 99% of them, whatever were women, 95 women who are ready for grandchildren and didn't have them. Had grandchildren, and they weren't in the area, right? And they had that, that love they wanted to share, and they just loved the opportunity to do it. It was, I'm choking up here talking about such a great time for us in   Speaker 1 ** 55:11 that way. Now I'm assuming today, nobody has to do diaper duty with the quads, right?   Matt Forbeck ** 55:16 Not until they have their own kids. Just checking, just checking, thankfully, think we're that is long in our past,   Speaker 1 ** 55:23 is it? Is it coming fairly soon for anybody in the future?   Matt Forbeck ** 55:27 Oh, I don't know. That's really entirely up to them. We would love to have grandchildren, but you know, it all comes in its own time. They're not doing no well. I, one of my sons is married, so it's possible, right? And one of my other sons has a long term girlfriend, so that's possible, but, you know, who knows? Hopefully they're they have them when they're ready. I always say, if you have kids and you want them, that's great. If you have, if you don't have kids and you don't want them, that's great. It's when you cross the two things that,   Speaker 1 ** 55:57 yeah, trouble, yeah, that's that is, that is a problem. But you really like working with yourself. You love the entre

In this conversation, Andrew Rickauer from United Way of Marquette County explains how local partnerships, often including tourism businesses, are helping build stronger, more resilient communities. His perspective shows how tourism can be a vital force for community well-being when it's aligned with local needs. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aaron and Jon rejoice in the Packers opening day win.  Huge win over a division rival.  The Badgers get a nice, though uninspirin win over MTSU.  The Brewers in recovery mode and working the rotation for the playoffs.  A little catching up with the Wisconsin and Marquette volleyball

Hello, and welcome to Films for the Void, episode #113! I am your host, Landon Defever, and my guest today is the guitarist and vocalist for Marquette, Michigan power pop band Liquid Mike!5 Forming at the top of the decade, the band combines massive alt-rock riffs and self-depreciating lyrics into an accessibly punchy package, channeling the likes of bands like Nirvana, The Replacements, and Guided by Voices. You can check out the band's sixth studio album Hell is an Airport when it comes out this Friday, September 12, and you can catch the band on the road this fall opening for Militarie Gun.LANDON'S TWITTER @igotdefevermanLANDON'S INSTAGRAM @duhfeverLANDON'S LETTERBOXD @landondefeverArtwork by Annie CurleTheme Music by Meghan GoveEdited by Landon Defever

Wisconsin’s wine grape harvest is underway, and at Bailey’s Run Vineyard in New Glarus, manager Aimee Arrigoni is watching the weather closely. She oversees six acres and 3,000 vines. The early Edelweiss has already been picked, but later-ripening reds are still waiting on September warmth. Recent swings between hot and unusually cool temperatures have stalled sugar levels, raising the risk of fruit damage from birds, bees, and disease. Despite the challenges, Arrigoni says yields are strong and quality is high, with promising reds like Marquette and Petite Pearl set for harvest later this month into early October.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

L'info du matin - Le secret pour mieux travailler ? Faire une pause ! Grégory Ascher et Justine Salmon vous ont expliqué pourquoi les micro-pauses améliorent la concentration. Le winner du jour - Un super fan de Star Wars débourse 3,6 millions de dollars pour le sabre laser de Dark Vador. - En pleine réunion du conseil municipal, un élu se met à faire du breakdance pour protester contre la hausse des impôts. Le flashback de septembre 1979 - Sortie d'un monument du cinéma : "Apocalypse Now" de Francis Ford Coppola. Les savoirs inutiles - Le suédois est-il une forme cachée de l'accent marseillais ? En tout cas, certains mots comme "abonnement" ou "accompagnement" se prononcent "abonne-mangue" et "accompagne-mangue". Bluffant non ? La chanson du jour - Stereophonics "Maybe Tomorrow" Les 3 choses à savoir sur Supertramp Le jeu surprise - Émilie de Marquette-lez-Lille gagne un séjour Thalazur de 6 jours / 6 nuits en demi-pension avec 24 soins à Cabourg La banque RTL2 - Sébastien d'Orvilliers gagne 1000 euros - Johanna de Orrouer gagne un iPhoneHébergé par Audiomeans. Visitez audiomeans.fr/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Ore Dock Brewing Company in Marquette, Michigan is creating a space where locals and visitors come together to learn, celebrate, and protect what makes the region special. Founded in 2012, the brewery has become a cultural anchor hosting everything from public lectures on water conservation to art shows and memorials. For co-founder Andi Pernsteiner, tourism is less about promotion and more about using hospitality as a platform for stewardship. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Building tomorrow's workforce starts with more than just technical skills—it requires access, mentorship, and leaders willing to invest in students long before they enter the job market.In this episode of The TechEd Podcast, Mary Ellen Stanek, Co-Founder and CIO Emeritus of Baird Asset Management, shares how one of the nation's most respected investment firms thinks about talent, education, and inclusion. She reflects on being the first woman to chair a major civic leadership group, the creation of the award that now bears her name for advancing diversity in corporate governance, and how internships are shaping the next generation of professionals.Mary Ellen also unpacks how AI is changing finance while elevating the need for human judgment, and why Baird invests millions into education initiatives that expand opportunity—programs like Cristo Rey's work-study model, All-In Milwaukee's 90% college graduation rate, Aug Prep's innovative K-12 approach, and major scholarship funds at Marquette.For educators, employers, and community leaders, this conversation is a roadmap for how business and education can work together to prepare students for meaningful careers and stronger communities anywhere.Listen to learn:How Baird selects 300 interns out of 32,000 applicants each yearWhat it meant to be the first woman to chair the Greater Milwaukee CommitteeThe story behind the Mary Ellen Stanek Award for Diversity in Corporate GovernanceWhy AI boosts productivity in finance but can't replace human judgmentHow All-In Milwaukee achieves a 90% graduation rate with 84% of students debt-free3 Big Takeaways from this Episode:1. Internships are one of the most effective ways to build a talent pipeline. Baird received over 32,000 applications for internships this year and hired just 1%, bringing in 300 students across the firm. About 40% of those rising seniors secure full-time roles, proving the long-term workforce impact of investing in student opportunities.2. Inclusion in leadership transforms organizations and opens doors for others. Mary Ellen began her career as one of the only women in the room, later becoming the first woman to chair the Greater Milwaukee Committee. Today, Baird counts nearly 100 female managing directors, and the Mary Ellen Stanek Award continues to honor leaders driving diversity in corporate governance.3. Education investments create measurable results for students and communities. All-In Milwaukee reports a 90% six-year college graduation rate, with 84% of scholars leaving school debt-free and 91% employed or in graduate programs. Similar investments in Cristo Rey, Aug Prep, and Marquette scholarships demonstrate how targeted support leads to stronger career pathways and local economic growth.Resources:Learn more about Mary Ellen StanekInternships at BairdCristo Rey Jesuit High SchoolSt. Augustine Preparatory AcademyAll-in MilwaukeeBoys aWe want to hear from you! Send us a text.Instagram - Facebook - YouTube - TikTok - Twitter - LinkedIn

After opening the 2025 season 2-1 at the WKU Invitational, Reily Chestnut sits down with associate head coach Craig Bere to learn more about his career and the team's opening weekend.Learn about how Bere went from kicking field goals at Morehead State to becoming a key piece for the Hilltoppers' impressive run in CUSA as a member of a deep and dynamic coaching staff.What lies in store as WKU's talented troupe ventures to Milwaukee for battles with #25 Dayton, Marquette, and Buffalo this weekend?Find out on today's edition of the Tops Live Volleyball Podcast.No new podcast episode next week as WKU's Tops Live Coaches' Show returns to Rooster's off Three Spring Road in Bowling Green from 6-7 Monday night.Be sure to join us as we discuss WKU football with Tyson Helton and volleyball with Travis Hudson. You can listen elsewhere on the Varsity Network app if you cannot be there.Fans in attendance can also win prizes at the end of trivia night following the show.Go Tops!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Happy Aloha Friday, beautiful people! Ku & Paul kick off the show giving their takes on the blockbuster NFL trade of Micah Parsons from the Cowboys to the Packers and how the package compares to previous superstar deals. We continue the football conversation with the first full weekend slate of college football beginning, highlighting our favorite matchups of Week 1 outside of the Texas-Ohio State juggernaut. The first hour closes out with a preview of the Rainbow Wahine volleyball team ahead of Friday's season-opening match against Marquette & Paul's first impressions of HPU men's basketball's new group.

With Aaron Peterson, filmmaker and co-founder of the Fresh Coast Film Festival Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hour 2 opens with more Hawaii football conversation as Ku & Paul begin looking ahead to the Rainbow Warriors' matchup at Arizona as Alejado looks like he may give it a go on Saturday. We hear from Hawaii women's volleyball head coach Robyn Ah Mow ahead of the Rainbow Wahine's season-opener against Marquette on Friday, talking to her about how training camp has been and some of the changes she's seen as the weeks progressed.

As heard on the WSJM Morning Show, learn about the latest economic development happenings in our community from Cornerstone Alliance. They are a leading economic development organization dedicated to fostering growth and prosperity in Michigan’s Great Southwest. For more information on Cornerstone Alliance, please visit https://www.GoMichigan.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Greg talks to Tristan Freeman of Busting Brackets about the ACC and Big East landscapes, the offseason Pittsburgh had, Marquette's refusal to use the transfer portal, and the question marks St. John's has at the point guard spotLink To Greg's Spreadsheet of handicapped lines: https://vsin.com/college-basketball/greg-petersons-daily-college-basketball-lines/Greg's TikTok With Pickmas Pick Videos: https://www.tiktok.com/@gregpetersonsports?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc

Jon and Aaron bring you through a rough stretch against the Cubs and put out some clear conspiracy issues.  Then a little discussion of Badgers football and volleyball.  Finally, a little talk around Packers preseason win over the Colts and some talk about Marquette, MI.

What can a destination's past teach us about its future? In this episode, Marquette historian and storyteller Jim Koski explores how transformations of the past can help today's tourism leaders make more thoughtful, place-based decisions. Learn how honouring history, environment, and community identity can shape stewardship efforts going forward. With gratitude to Travel Marquette for sponsoring this season of Travel Beyond. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

(00:00-31:13) Sweet, sweet James. Hello Wild Card. Fun with contract talks. Are we gonna get a QB announcement from Columbia today? Very sassy Colonel. Audio of Drink chomping ice during an interview talking about his quarterbacks. MASSIVE media chuckle. Vision boards and such. Predictionary for the Central Arkansas game. Olivia Rodrigo. Gabe's topless post game show. Doug likes Gabe's topless business model.(31:21-58:10) We Are The World. Doug sees a sweep coming today. You like this Pallante fella, do ya? Nolan Arenado gotta be itching to come back seeing where this team is. Up in Jupiter? Martin's not gonna step down on this one. 47th Anniversary Meatloaf. Thank you, farmers. Ken Rosenthal follows up his article on Marmol by saying he expects him back at the helm next year. Pegged into tomorrow. Talking Santas.(58:20-1:23:40) Did Martin cross paths with Chris Farley at Marquette? The Matt Foley character was inspired by Farley's dad. Notable Marquette alumni. Jackson doesn't like cameo porn. Keith is on the line still trying to get Martin to road trip to Milwaukee with him. Jeffrey Dahmer jokes. Jackson sniped him. Fungo is next up. Trying to recruit Doug to the St. Gabe's Golf Tournament. Big Al wraps up the trifecta.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Strings, Stories, and Staying Humble: Troy Graham on Music, Family, and Faith | Conversations with a Chiropractor What does it look like to live a life shaped by music, faith, and community? In this heartfelt episode of Conversations with a Chiropractor, Dr. Stephanie Wautier sits down with Troy Graham, a beloved Marquette musician and storyteller, whose blend of folk, gospel, and original songwriting has touched hearts across the U.P. and beyond. Troy shares the story of his early musical beginnings, the struggles and triumphs along the way, and the importance of community in sustaining both music and life. From raising a musical family to publishing poetry during the pandemic, his story highlights resilience, humility, and the healing power of creativity.

In this episode, I spoke with author Ann Berman about her book "Louis Graveraet Kaufman: The Fabulous Michigan Gatsby Who Conquered Wall Street, Took Over General Motors, and Built the World's Tallest Building" This fascinating biography recounts the life and legacy of a titan of American banking, Louis Graveraet Kaufman (1870–1942). Also known as LG, he was a Gatsbyesque figure born in Michigan's Upper Peninsula who married into great wealth and then amassed far more of his own.Under LG, New York's Chatham Phenix National Bank and Trust Company became one of the nation's largest banks and the first in New York to boast a network of branches. When he was denied entry into the exclusive, Protestant, old-money Huron Mountain Club, LG responded by building his own retreat: the world's largest log lodge, a 26,000-square-foot behemoth near Marquette, Michigan. Christened Granot Loma, it became the site of lavish Prohibition-era parties, attracting many celebrities who came in private rail cars to enjoy jazz and liquor chez Kaufman.

What happens when tourism is rooted in local pride and environmental responsibility? In this episode, Susan Estler, CEO of Travel Marquette, shares how collaboration across industries and a deep passion for place are shaping the visitor experience in this Great Lakes community. Learn how Marquette is building a culture of care.With gratitude to Travel Marquette for sponsoring this season of Travel Beyond. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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In this episode of CISO Tradecraft, host G Mark Hardy is joined by cybersecurity expert Casey Marquette to discuss effective HR and recruiting strategies for building a top-notch cybersecurity team. They dive into career development, the importance of networking, and how to navigate the challenges of hiring in cybersecurity. Casey shares his personal journey from law enforcement to becoming a leading figure in the cybersecurity world, highlighting the role of mentorship and continuous learning. The episode also covers innovative uses of AI in the hiring process and provides practical advice for both hiring managers and job seekers in the cybersecurity field. Tune in for valuable insights on how to hire the best talent and advance your career in cybersecurity.   Transcripts https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c-3qy6KkQuhjuHquycQ3rRwMdSlZBfz4    Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Cybersecurity Recruitment 00:31 Guest Introduction: Casey Marquette 01:46 Casey's Career Journey 04:41 Hiring for Attitude vs. Skillset 05:30 Promoting from Within vs. Hiring Externally 07:34 Leadership and Morale 20:20 The Importance of Networking and Mentorship 22:19 AI in Recruitment 23:30 The Talent Pool and Recruitment Challenges 24:04 Introducing Scout: The AI Recruitment Tool 24:51 Security Measures in AI Recruitment 25:32 Addressing Fraudulent Candidates 26:10 Remote Hiring and Deepfake Concerns 28:52 Insider Threats and Tabletop Exercises 31:51 Enhancing Career Marketability for CISOs 37:47 Building Effective Networks and Relationships 42:04 The Importance of Specialized Recruitment 44:21 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Ooh baby baby, it's a wild world! Justin labored to handle the podcasting duties solo this week because beloved co-host Emily went into labor and welcomed baby Lenora Joyce “LJ” into the world. Team MRLA is ecstatic and committed to carrying the torch forward in her temporary absence, but let this pod be your official declaration to manage expectations accordingly! Justin tries out a new segment that somehow features Tiger Woods, Hootie and the Stanley Cup before a seamless(-ish) segue into tariffs and a big win in Washington D.C. on the tip credit. Justin then welcomes MRLA Board member and owner of Vault Hotels, Jennifer Julien, for an interesting and informative discussion on her foray into hospitality, the groundbreaking of the new Vault Hotel in Marquette and her celebrity life as a professional snowmobile racer. Enjoy!

Episode 150 Not a Program - A Place to Belong with Jared Marquette Watch Now https://youtu.be/rBHhEytDHRI Listen Now Description In this powerful episode of Finding Peaks, Chris Burns sits down with Jared Marquette — founder of Archipelago Denver and Sonder Sober Living — for a rich and honest look at what recovery can look like when it's built around people, not just programs. Together, they explore how recovery isn't about fixing what's broken — it's about remembering the perfection we were born into, navigating suffering with purpose, and discovering your own true north. Jared brings raw personal stories, inspiring insights, and a deeply human approach to community and healing. From building spaces that feel like home to challenging the norms of treatment culture, this conversation is for anyone seeking meaning, connection, and hope. Thank you, Jared, for such an authentic conversation. Learn more at archipelagodenver.com and sondersoberliving.com. Talking Points Introduction to the Show Meet Jared The origin of the Archipelago Club in Denver Finding your true north What works for you? People first Born in perfection Building the life you want Creating meaning in suffering A sober living community Colorados provider network You are not alone sondersoberliving.com archipelagodenver.com Final thoughts Quotes “Suffering ceases to be suffering as it finds meaning”. -Jared Marquette Episode Transcripts

Lorri Rishar Jandron, MBA, Owner & CEO, EDGE Partnerships, Lansing, Marquette, Chicago, along with Becky Burtka, VP of member engagement, Michigan Chamber, Lansing, MI. Co-Hosts of the new MBN show "BOLD LeadHERS" now into Episode 3. In this episode of Bold LeadHERS, they interview Elizabeth Gorz, Current VP of Innovation and Strategic Communication at Central Payments, a financial services firm. Elizabeth spent over a decade working in and around the state of Michigan Public Policy space across a number of sectors. She then transitioned to the federal level- scaling an in-house public policy department and team. She has now been in the financial space for the past 6 years. ● Where did your professional journey begin? ● How has your career path changed along the way? ● What is your opinion on the pay gap? ● What is it like being the only woman at the table? ● How do you find yourself moving up in a company/excelling your career after potential obstacles? ● What made you want to change your career path? ● What advice do you have for young women starting their full-time careers? In this episode, Becky was able to introduce her close friend Elizabeth Gorz to Lorri. The three of them were able to bond over their shared experiences in the Michigan legislature and how that led them to where they are today. Elizabeth was able to share her experiences being the only woman at the table and how she was able to overcome those obstacles. Becky and Lorri then debriefed their conversation with Elizabeth and their key takeaways from the chat. » Visit MBN website: www.michiganbusinessnetwork.com/ » Subscribe to MBN's YouTube: www.youtube.com/@MichiganbusinessnetworkMBN » Like MBN: www.facebook.com/mibiznetwork » Follow MBN: twitter.com/MIBizNetwork/ » MBN Instagram: www.instagram.com/mibiznetwork/

0:00 ... Opening animation .... Ross says hello and welcomes the panel. 0:32 ... Show #167 is dedicated to Wilt Chamberlain for a variety of reasons involving the number "67." 1:15 ... The crew discusses four restricted free agents and their prospects for their next deal.  We start with Jonathan Kuminga of the Golden State Warriors. 5:32 ... Cam Thomas of the Brooklyn Nets is next. 8:49 ... Quentin Grimes of the 76ers is next. 13:37 ... Josh Giddey of the Chicago Bulls is next. 18:45 ... Bulls head coach Billy Donovan agrees to a multi-year contract extension to stay on the Chicago bench.  What does it mean for the future of the team? 23:29 ... Former number one overall pick Ben Simmons is looking for his next team and Bruce is hoping it will be with his Boston Celtics. 28:18 ... Off-Season Grades, starting in the east: The Boston Celtics are first. 31:33 ... The New York Knicks are next ... 34:29 ... Next up, the Orlando Magic. 37:24 ... Off-Season Grades, moving to the west: The Oklahoma City Thunder. 39:21 ... Next up, the Houston Rockets 43:44 ... The Los Angeles Lakers are next. 46:20 ... "My Favorite Season" ... Bruce chooses the 2007-'08 Celtics 48:22 ... World B chooses the 1993-'94 Knicks, who lost the NBA Finals in 7 games to the Rockets. 51:09 ... Ross chooses the 2009-'10 Milwaukee Bucks when he was a season ticket holder as a student at Marquette. 53:12 ... Finally the crew plays word association with the following players: Lonzo Ball, Luke Kornet, Desmond Bane, Damian Lillard, Cooper Flagg, Marcus Smart. 56:03... Ross wraps things up and says goodbye ... TRT 56:23    

Only a true journalist like Ann Berman could make the connection between an Adirondack chair and an obscure half Jewish, part Indigenous entrepreneur from Marquette in Michigan's Upper Peninsula who has been dead for close to 100 years. Sponsored by Modern History Press, Moravian Sons Distillery and  Doc Chavent.     Louis Graveraet Kaufman: The Fabulous Michigan Gatsby Who Conquered Wall Street, Took Over General Motors and Built the Tallest Building in the World is the story of the half Jewish, part Indigenous man from Marquette (1870-1942) who built and ran one of the largest banks in the country, changed the destiny of GM, financed the Empire State Building and built a grand apartment building at 625 Park Avenue.  He was also the builder of some of Marquette's most elegant architecture, including Granot Loma, a 26,000 square foot Adirondack style log and stone lodge on Lake Superior where he entertained celebrities at Gatsby-esque parties and plugged UP agriculture at his ‘gentleman's farm.'  Wildly social and upwardly mobile, he and his family lived Jazz Age lives full of race horses, debutante parties and private rail cars…until a wrong turn brought the whole thing tumbling down and he retreated, defeated, to his beloved Marquette.   Listen in for a chance to win a signed copy of Louis Graveraet Kaufman. Copyright (c) 2025. Emma Blogs, LLC. All rights reserved.

Today we have Coach Mike DuFrane on the Podcast. Coach DuFrane is the Defensive Coordinator at Northern Michigan University in Marquette, MI. Today we talked about his time as a Head Coach and the struggles of not only having your program cut but your entire school shut down. You can find Coach DuFrane on Twitter at @CoachDuFrane and as always don't forget to check out the previous episodes of the HogFBPodcast. Please leave a review, a rating and keep an eye out for the Monday night #Hogfbchat on Twitter at 8pm CST.

Sonny goes one on one with Symir talking about his playing days in college and overseas..

Jam packed show with all the amazingness expected on Edge of Your Seat Podcast!Marquette baseball representatives coach Todd Hopkins and seniors, now graduated, Keaton Davis and Sam Mitre speak on winning the IHSA Class 1A State Championship...for the second year in a row (22:09).Marisa Guisti, La Salle-Peru alumna and former NCAA Division I volleyball player, tells us about the sales role she had with the Jacksonville Jaguars and now the Milwaukee Bucks (37:32).Keep it Rollin breaks down 10 movies and then ranks them (51:54).Marion Persich, a La Salle-Peru sophomore for the 2025-26 school year, is cruising the NCAA Division I summer camp circuit and awaiting his second year as the Cavaliers' starting QB (1:28:19).What the Pod is chats a couple of podcasts you should check out (1:39:18).Mallory Powers talked with us after scoring 1,000-plus points for the Illinois Wesleyan women's basketball team and graduating to move on to the next step in her schooling and professional life (2:07:36).Ella Sterling graduated from Hall in May and is excited to be on the Eastern Michigan University rowing roster, a sport she hadn't heard before being recruited by many NCAA Division I schools (2:07:36).Bring it Back features the 2019 Billie Eilish debut studio album, "Where We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go?" (2:17:28).

⚠️ TRIGGER WARNING: ⚠️This episode contains sensitive content, including references to sexual violence and trauma. Listener discretion is advised.

00:00 – 23:56 – James’ car vs. a suitcase, WNBA All-Star Draft and Caitlin Clark’s team, Caitlin Clark returns to take on Golden State today, Kevin Durant discusses his Achilles tear and the road to recovery, what it means for Haliburton as he begins his road back, Bennedict Mathurin posts a picture of him dunking on Myles Turner following news that Turner signed with the Bucks, Jeff leaving for the next two weeks, three Colts who could be re-signed 23:57 – 38:28 –We continue our Colts re-signing topic: Kwity Paye, Nick Cross, what are actual expectations with the Colts with Anthony Richardson and Daniel Jones 38:29 – 49:46 – IndyStar Fever reporter Chloe Peterson joins us to discuss Caitlin Clark’s return to the lineup, Clark’s injury plagued sophomore season with the Fever, expectations for her return today, how the offense will look against the Valkyries today, the WNBA All-Star Draft results, Pacers summer league starts tomorrow, Johnny Furphy expectations 49:47 – 1:00:00 - Journal Sentinel Marquette basketball reporter Ben Steele joins us to discuss the Pacers drafting Kam Jones, his time at Marquette and what he brings to the table for the Pacers, surprised he lasted into the second round of the NBA Draft?, Myles Turner vibes in Milwaukee?Support the show: https://1075thefan.com/the-wake-up-call-1075-the-fan/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

00:00 – 12:29– Caitlin Clark returns to the Fever lineup today, setting the show up for the day, still having some Pacers thoughts 12:30 – 17:47 – Morning Checkdown 17:48 – 41:37 – James’ car vs. a suitcase, WNBA All-Star Draft and Caitlin Clark’s team, Caitlin Clark returns to take on Golden State today, Kevin Durant discusses his Achilles tear and the road to recovery, what it means for Haliburton as he begins his road back, Bennedict Mathurin posts a picture of him dunking on Myles Turner following news that Turner signed with the Bucks, Jeff leaving for the next two weeks, three Colts who could be re-signed 41:38 – 1:06:20 – Dewanna Bonner signs with the Mercury and her return to Indiana at the end of the month, our golf outing, we continue our Colts re-signing topic: Kwity Paye, Nick Cross, what are actual expectations with the Colts with Anthony Richardson and Daniel Jones?, Morning Checkdown 1:06:21 – 1:15:06 – Listener says the Colts could be good this year, we debate their winless streaks in Week 1 and at Jacksonville, Bob Kravitz had some interesting nuggets about Myles Turner’s decision to sign with the Bucks 1:15:07 – 1:24:21 – James’ conversation with Bob Kravitz and Turner agreeing to the Bucks deal minutes after receiving it, being told he’d have a bigger role with them 1:24:22 – 1:47:46 – IndyStar Fever reporter Chloe Peterson joins us to discuss Caitlin Clark’s return to the lineup, Clark’s injury plagued sophomore season with the Fever, expectations for her return today, how the offense will look against the Valkyries today, the WNBA All-Star Draft results, Pacers summer league starts tomorrow, Johnny Furphy expectations, Morning Checkdown 1:47:47 – 2:00:23 – Journal Sentinel Marquette basketball reporter Ben Steele joins us to discuss the Pacers drafting Kam Jones, his time at Marquette and what he brings to the table for the Pacers, surprised he lasted into the second round of the NBA Draft?, Myles Turner vibes in Milwaukee? 2:00:24 – 2:06:17 – Ronald McDonald stolen in Pennsylvania, Big Boy, Fever/Valkyries in a matter of hoursSupport the show: https://1075thefan.com/the-wake-up-call-1075-the-fan/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The 2025-26 Marquette University men's basketball campaign will mark the second for Bo Zeigler as a program assistant. Zeigler will assist with the day-to-day operations of the program, including a focus on player development. In 2024-25, the Golden Eagles posted their third-straight 20-win season and participated in the NCAA tournament four the fourth-straight year. On the court, Kam Jones developed into a Consensus All-America selection, marking the third-straight year a Marquette player captured the accolade. MU also posted a standout season in the classroom, highlighted by a 3.28 team grade-point-average and Stevie Mitchell was named BIG EAST Scholar-Athlete of the Year and a CSC First Team Academic All-American. The Detroit native arrives at Marquette after spending two years at his alma mater Detroit Community, teaching and coaching basketball. Zeigler played professionally for three seasons (2019-21) in Scotland and Finland after a collegiate career that included stops at the University of South Florida (2014-17) and George Washington (2017-18).Zeigler earned his bachelor's degree in communications from USF in 2017.To View This Episode- https://youtu.be/bkUOcrs8C8E #marquette #whoknewinthemoment #podcast #philfriedrich

Dylan Joseph Abramson is a predator caught in the Marquette, Monroe, Michigan sting. He is mostly known for his resemblance to actor Tony Revolori, as well as his mental breakdown during his interview and arrest, whining about losing his job and making an odd face when asked if he'd had sex with a child before. At the time of the sting, Dylan was twenty-one years old and an aerospace engineering student at Michigan Tech College. He lived with his parents in Houghton, Michigan.  Dylan approached a girl who claimed to be nineteen years old from a prostitution advertisement. He immediately asked what services she provided and if she did French kissing; the girl then made it clear she was only fifteen years old.  Dylan was greeted by the decoy at the front door. The two made conversation for a moment, with Dylan acknowledging that she had a bong and that he would be willing to share some of the mariujana in his car with the decoy. When the decoy went upstairs using the phone charger excuse, Dylan attempted to follow her, only for Chris to come out and stop him. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Here are 3 big things you need to know—   One — Search and rescue operations continue after flash flooding killed at least 80 people in central Texas.  The toll includes at least 28 children in Kerr County, where ten girls and one counselor from Camp Mystic are still unaccounted for.  Texas Governor Greg Abbott said Sunday that search and recovery efforts will continue around the clock, adding that flash flooding is still a danger with more rain in the forecast.   Two ---  Filling up the gas tank in Michigan is eleven-cents a gallon cheaper this week.  Triple-A Michigan says the average price is now three-dollars-15-cents, down five-cents from last month and 43-cents less than last year.  The most expensive gas is in metro Detroit at three-dollars-20-cents, and Marquette has the lowest price in the state at three-dollars a gallon.    And number three --- President Trump signed the big, beautiful bill Friday, drawing praise from GOP leaders.  House Speaker Mike Johnson tells Fox News the bill boosts the average American's take-home pay by 13-thousand dollars and delivers on the administration's "America First" agenda.

00:00 - 15:59 - Shaka Smart, the head coach for the Marquette men’s basketball team, joins JMV to discuss the Pacers drafting his former player Kam Jones in the 2nd round of the 2025 NBA Draft! They talk about how Jones fits with the Pacers, and what qualities he has that will help his transition to the NBA. 16;00 - 36:45 - JMV talks to Coach Ritchie McKay of Liberty, who coached the Pacers other 2nd round selection, Taelon Peter. Coach McKay and JMV discuss Taelon’s fit with the Pacers, his journey to the NBA, and what impact he might have in his Pacers career. 36:46 - 52:15 - Native Hoosier and now-retired MLB player Tucker Barnhart joins the show to talk about the decision to end his baseball career! Tucker and JMV reflect on his baseball career, and look ahead to what he’ll do now that he’s hung up the cleats. 52:16 - 1:10:49 - Mike Chappell of FOX59 and CBS4 joins the show! Mike and JMV first reflect on the passing of Don Hein of WTHR, as well as Indy sports writer Dick Mittman. Mike and JMV also talk about the Pacers and where they go from here, as well as the upcoming Colts season. 1:10:50 - 1:24:49 - Rich Nye from WTHR joins the show to talk about Don’s passing, and his legacy here in Indianapolis.Support the show: https://1075thefan.com/the-ride-with-jmv/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

00:00 - 23:07 – JMV begins the show by talking about the passing of Don Hein, former WTHR sports director and anchor. Rich Nye from WTHR joins the show to talk about Don’s passing, and his legacy here in Indianapolis. 23:08 – 40:04 – Shaka Smart, the head coach for the Marquette men’s basketball team, joins JMV to discuss the Pacers drafting his former player Kam Jones in the 2nd round of the 2025 NBA Draft! They talk about how Jones fits with the Pacers, and what qualities he has that will help his transition to the NBA. 40:05 – 42:46 – JMV wraps up the 1st hour by talking about the 40th anniversary of Back To The Future! 42:47 – 1:05:20 - JMV talks to Coach Ritchie McKay of Liberty, who coached the Pacers other 2nd round selection, Taelon Peter. Coach McKay and JMV discuss Taelon’s fit with the Pacers, his journey to the NBA, and what impact he might have in his Pacers career. 1:05:21 – 1:23:15 – Native Hoosier and now-retired MLB player Tucker Barnhart joins the show to talk about the decision to end his baseball career! Tucker and JMV reflect on his baseball career, and look ahead to what he’ll do now that he’s hung up the cleats. 1:23:15 – 1:27:00 – JMV wraps up the 2nd hour of the show! 1:27:00 – 1:50:55 – Mike Chappell of FOX59 and CBS4 joins the show! Mike and JMV first reflect on the passing of Don Hein of WTHR, as well as Indy sports writer Dick Mittman. Mike and JMV also talk about the Pacers and where they go from here, as well as the upcoming Colts season. 1:50:56 – 2:08:28 – JMV takes some calls from listeners, including some who have stories about Dick Mittman and Don Hein (including the legendary Reb Porter) 2:08:28 – 2:08:43 – JMV quickly wraps up the show! Support the show: https://1075thefan.com/the-ride-with-jmv/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Rooted in Care: Jamie Kitchel on Midwifery, Postpartum Mental Health, and Building a New Model for Mothers | Conversations with a Chiropractor Episode Description: What if we treated postpartum care as the beginning—not the end—of a woman's wellness journey? In this deeply personal and enlightening conversation, Dr. Stephanie Wautier sits down with Jamie Kitchel, certified nurse midwife and co-founder of Rooted, a postpartum education and home visiting service in Marquette, Michigan. From the ICU to home births, Jamie's path has been anything but ordinary. She opens up about her early days in critical care, her calling into midwifery, and how three women with nine kids between them decided to reimagine postpartum support from the ground up. They talk about the overlooked emotional toll of new motherhood, the gaps in our medical system, and the importance of meeting families right where they are—at home.

In this episode of Move the Sticks, DJ and Bucky are joined by longtime college basketball head coach Tom Crean, who led programs at Marquette, Indiana, and Georgia. The trio explores how the player evaluation process has evolved over the last decade, from what coaches look for to how player development is approached today. Coach Crean shares insight on the value of building shared adversity early in a team’s journey to help shape identity and culture. He also speaks on the benefits of multi-sport athletes, why we’re seeing a decline in them, and what’s lost when athletes specialize too soon. The conversation dives into the importance of strength and conditioning, and Crean breaks down the common traits shared by elite athletes he’s coached like Dwyane Wade, Victor Oladipo, and Anthony Edwards. Plus, Crean offers his perspective on what makes his brother-in-law Jim Harbaugh a special coach, from his unorthodox leadership style to how he brings joy and unity into one of the most physically and mentally grueling sports. Move the Sticks is a part of the NFL Podcasts Network.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Alex Milovic, associate professor of practice of marketing at Marquette, joins Lisa Dent to share tips on how to organize a yard sale.

This episode of Just Politics sounds a little different—and that's the point. Rather than diving into our usual policy discussion, hosts Colin and Eilis pass the mic to a group of young men wrestling with one of the most pervasive forces shaping our political and cultural moment: toxic masculinity. These college students are all part of NETWORK's Carroll Coston Fellowship, a leadership program named after Sister Carol Coston, one of NETWORK's founding sisters and its first executive director. Together, they explore what it means to be a man in 2025, especially in the wake of the 2024 election, where the “manosphere” made headlines and MAGA bravado showed up in force on college campuses. These young leaders speak candidly about gender norms they've inherited, what they've had to unlearn, and how they're trying to show up differently not just for themselves, but for the people around them. You'll hear from: Steven, a student at Barry University in South Florida, reflecting on faith and masculinity in a culturally complex environment JC, a student from Atlanta studying in rural Pennsylvania, who talks about online influence and its impact on young Black men Ben, who grew up in Kentucky and shares his evolving understanding of privilege, power, and accountability Jack, a social work student and trans man offering a powerful reflection on “collectivist masculinity” Jonathan, a business student at Marquette learning to speak up as one of the only students of color in the room Aaron, an international student athlete from Canada who reflects on masculinity in immigrant households and team culture The conversation closes with where they're finding hope and what examples of healthy, authentic masculinity they're carrying with them into the future. Whether you're a parent, teacher, organizer, or someone thinking about how culture is shaping politics, this is a conversation you won't want to miss. LINKS:  https://uscatholic.org/articles/202505/how-a-faulty-vision-of-christian-masculinity-harms-us-all/ https://uscatholic.org/articles/202505/toxic-masculinity-clashes-with-actual-catholic-teaching/ https://www.networkadvocates.org/vote-our-future/yall/   

Episode 329 took two weeks put together as host Brandon LaChance cut his eye and ran into podcast technical difficulties, and work and non-work situations. The show will always go on!! Fantastic guests in Sidney Bakabella, a manager in DreamWave Wrestling and five Mendota representatives. Out of the Valley (5:44): Aaron Rodgers, NHL Stanley Cup and NBA Finals (after Game 4 and Game 2), Courtney Vandersloot, Cubs, White Sox, Ice Cube's Big 3 came to Chicago, Tom Thibodeau fired by Knicks, Detroit Lions, WWE releases, Antonio Brown, "No Kings".Sidney Bakabella (32:03): Former WWF Hall of Fame manager, who currently represents independent wrestler "World Class" Channing Thomas (GREAT chat)Crystal Garcia (44:43): Just graduated Mendota High School after leading the girls soccer team to its first regional championship in 12 years.Nick Myers (56:18): MHS girls and boys soccer coach is proud of his team for breaking records and bringing a new plaque to the trophy case.Naitzy Garcia (1:03:35): After graduating from MHS, she went to Rock Valley Community College and went to two NJCAA National Championship tourneys. She is now headed to Eureka College.Putting in the Work and Paying Respect (1:20:09): Back-to-back segments. PITW congratulates spring high school state champions and accomplishments. We pay respect to George Wendt, Valarie Mahaffey, Ananda Lewis, Brian Wilson, Jonathon Joss, Sly Stone and Sabu.Braiden Freeman (1:56:11): Three-sport MHS athlete (football, basketball, baseball) chats about his high school career and his excitement for his future in baseball at East Central College in Union, Missouri.Brent Montavon (2:12:01): Montavon was named the MHS wrestling coach for the 2025-26 season after being an assistant coach last year.What's Next: Episode 330 will feature representatives from the back-to-back IHSA Class 1A State Champions, the Marquette baseball team (Keaton Davis, Sam Mitre, Todd Hopkins), La Salle-Peru alum Marisa Guisti, L-P sophomore Marion Persich, Amboy graduate Mallory Powers and Hall graduate Ella Sterling.

Once per quarter, BUILD Coaching Company hosts The Underground Huddle – an interview with a prominent leader in sports or business with BUILD clients and other select guests present. All attendees live our mission to build an army of Disciplined Leaders and share our vision to be a resource for and a connector of current and aspiring leaders in small business, sports, and other areas of life. For the 14th Underground Huddle, our guest was Chris Vaughn, assistant director of college scouting for the Dallas Cowboys. He joined the Cowboys in 2017 as an area scout after 18 years coaching college football with stops at Texas, Memphis, Ole Miss, and Arkansas. Today he works closely with the Cowboys VP of Player Personnel on talent evaluation. A former linebacker at Murray State, Vaughn is originally from Tallahassee, Fla., and most importantly is a husband to Marquette and a father to three children.  

On this week's Tapping The Keg podcast, Charlie and Mitch talk about the Milwaukee Brewers, Milwaukee Bucks, and the Marquette Golden Eagles. The boys kick off the podcast discussing the Milwaukee Brewers series against the Chicago Cubs and how they've played in the last week. They also talk about the ceilings of different players and things including the 2025 Brewers, 2028 Brewers, Jacob Misiorowski and more. The podcast moves on to ponder if the Milwaukee Bucks should trade their 2031 NBA first round pick for picks in the 2025 NBA Draft. They also discuss if Marquette needs their own arena and they also say how much of challenge it is.

Let’s continue our deep dive into the importance of the Mississippi River as a vital continental waterway. Check out the YouTube version of this episode at https://youtu.be/2coszA8CO3I which has accompanying visuals including maps, charts, timelines, photos, illustrations, and diagrams. Mississippi River books available at https://amzn.to/4feWoDM Jolliet & Marquette books available at https://amzn.to/40HVlIH Jesuit books available at https://amzn.to/3vttWgG New France books at https://amzn.to/43IZrjw Cahokia books available at https://amzn.to/3QZ7zGm Mound Builders books available at https://amzn.to/3HjQl3b Age of Discovery books available at https://amzn.to/3ZYOhnK Age of Exploration books available at https://amzn.to/403Wcjx ENJOY Ad-Free content, Bonus episodes, and Extra materials when joining our growing community on https://patreon.com/markvinet SUPPORT this channel by purchasing any product on Amazon using this FREE entry LINK https://amzn.to/3POlrUD (Amazon gives us credit at NO extra charge to you). Mark Vinet's HISTORICAL JESUS podcast at https://parthenonpodcast.com/historical-jesus Mark's TIMELINE video channel: https://youtube.com/c/TIMELINE_MarkVinet Website: https://markvinet.com/podcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mark.vinet.9 Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkVinet_HNA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/denarynovels Mark's Books: https://amzn.to/3k8 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Meet Wilbur Jennings, owner of Wilbur Design + Construct in Marquette, Michigan. Jennings started in the trades at the age of 13, and developed a passion for building. He went on to earn a degree in construction management, and founded Wilbur Design while “flying by the seat of my pants.” Over the course of his journey in leadership he incorporated a mission and vision; clear systems and processes; an intentional company culture; and new ways to look at his financials. Here, Jennings shares the most impactful lessons learned in the past ten years.   In this episode, you will learn: How to define and use a mission, vision, and values to steer your business The critical hiring lesson that helped Wilbur build a more accountable and trustworthy team The industry resources he's found most helpful The job costing systems that have helped him maintain the right level of profitability What he would do differently if he were starting the business again today Listen to the episode to learn more. Resources: Learn more about Wilbur Design + Construct here. Own a construction company and want to share your story? Apply to be on an upcoming episode of Builder Stories at https://www.builderstories.com

Can hybrid grapes revolutionize the wine world? Adam Huss — Host of the Beyond Organic podcast and Co-owner of Centralas Cellars breaks down what a hybrid truly is, explaining how traditional breeding — and nature itself — has long crossed grape species. With over 70 grape species worldwide, today's modern hybrids are the result of generations of crossing, backcrossing, and innovation. We explore the impact of WWII on agriculture, France's ban on hybrids in appellation wines, and why developing new hybrids is critical for disease resistance, flavor discovery, and more sustainable farming. Plus, Adam shares insights into trialing the “married vine” system — a potential game-changer for soil health, pest management, and flavor expression. Resources:         135: Cold Hardiness of Grapevines 217: Combating Climate Chaos with Adaptive Winegrape Varieties 227: Andy Walkers' Pierces Disease-Resistant Grapes are a Success at Ojai Vineyard Adam Huss – LinkedIn Centralas Organic Wine Podcast South Central Los Angeles Couple Opens New Winery Dedicated to Organic Values, Transparency, Inclusion Wine's F- Word Vineyard Team Programs: Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholarship - Donate SIP Certified – Show your care for the people and planet   Sustainable Ag Expo – The premiere winegrowing event of the year Vineyard Team – Become a Member Get More Subscribe wherever you listen so you never miss an episode on the latest science and research with the Sustainable Winegrowing Podcast. Since 1994, Vineyard Team has been your resource for workshops and field demonstrations, research, and events dedicated to the stewardship of our natural resources. Learn more at www.vineyardteam.org.   Transcript [00:00:03] Beth Vukmanic: Welcome to Sustainable Wine Growing with Vineyard Team, where we bring you the latest in science and research for the wine industry. I'm Beth Vukmanic, Executive Director [00:00:13] In today's podcast, Craig Macmillan, critical resource manager at Niner Wine Estates with longtime SIP Certified Vineyard in the first ever. SIP Certified Winery speaks with Adam Huss, host of the Beyond Organic Podcast and co-owner of Centralis Cellars. [00:00:32] Adam breaks down what a hybrid truly is, explaining how traditional breeding and nature itself has long crossed grape species with over 70 grape species worldwide. Today's modern hybrids are the result of generations of crossing, backcrossing, and innovation. [00:00:50] We explore the impact of World War II on agriculture, France's ban on hybrids and Appalachian wines, and why developing new hybrids is critical for disease resistance, flavor discovery, and more sustainable farming. [00:01:03] Plus, Adam shares insights into trialing the married vine system, a potential game changer for soil health, pest management, and flavor expression. [00:01:12] When Lizbeth didn't get into nursing school on her first try, she could have given up. Instead, she partnered with her mentor Alex, to make a new plan, attend classes part-time, build up her resume and get hands-on hospital work experience. Now Lizbeth has been accepted into Cuesta College's nursing program and her dream of becoming a nurse is back on track. [00:01:36] Lizbeth is a Vineyard Team, Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholar. You can help more students like her who are the children of Vineyard and winery workers reach their dreams of earning a degree by donating to the Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholarship. Just go to vineyardteam.org/donate. [00:01:53] Now let's listen in. [00:01:58] Craig Macmillan: Our guest today is Adam Huss. He is the host of the Beyond Organic Podcast and also co-owner of Centralis Winery in Los Angeles, California. And today we're gonna talk about hybrid grape varieties. Welcome to the podcast, Adam. [00:02:11] Adam Huss: Thanks, Craig. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. [00:02:17] Craig Macmillan: So let's just start with the basics. What are hybrid grape varieties? [00:02:22] Adam Huss: I should also say I'm a fan of your podcast as well, so it's really fun to be here. [00:02:26] Craig Macmillan: Thank you. Thank you. [00:02:28] Adam Huss: Been listening for a while. So hybrids, I mean, it's really simple. It's funny, I see stuff on Instagram sometimes where people just are so misinformed and they think that, you know, hybrid means like GMO or something like that. [00:02:41] A hybrid simply is just, you take pollen from grape X, you put it on flowers from grape y, and if those two grapes are from different species, you have a hybrid. If they're from the same species, you just have a cross, and this is something that has been part of traditional breeding since forever. It's also what happens naturally in the wild. [00:03:00] Or I hate, I actually just use two words I try not to use at all, which is like natural and wild, but in forests and streams forests and backyards without human intervention, these pollen get exchanged by wind and everything else and have led to, you know, some of the more. Old popular varieties of grapes that are, considered hybrids that we know of now, like Norton and Isabella and Kaaba. [00:03:23] Nobody actually crossed them. They just happened. So yeah, that's, that's a hybrid. It's very simple. [00:03:29] Craig Macmillan: That's what they are, what aren't they and what are some of the myths surrounding them? [00:03:33] Adam Huss: yeah, great question. You can't generalize about hybrids. Generally speaking. So that's really important thing for people to wrap their heads around, which is because. You know, we'll get into this, but so much, so many hybrids are, and just hybrids in general, are wrapped up in prejudice because we live in this sort of viniferous centric wine world. [00:03:56] You know, , those of us who are in wine, but there, you just can't generalize. The qualities of hybrids are just like humans. Like it depends on what your parents are. You know, you, you get different things every time you mix 'em up and you're not like your brother or sister. If you have a sibling, you know you're gonna be different from them even though you have the same parents. [00:04:13] So that's the same thing happens with grapes. There's genetic diversity and mutation happens and. For hybrids, , the possibilities, the potentials are literally infinite. It's pretty incredible to know that possibility exists. There are over 70 species of grapes on earth besides vitus vara, and if you cross any of those two varieties, yeah, you'll get a genetic cross that's 50 50 of, of two different species. [00:04:40] But that. Within that you could do that cross again and get a different variety of grape, even with the same cross. So it's just amazing. [00:04:51] The modern hybrids that are now out there are. Often multi-species crosses and have been crossed. Generationally again and again and back crossed and recrossed. And so, you know, I was just looking at a hybrid grape that had five species of grapes in its family tree. I mean, there are family trees that would make the royals blush, honestly, in some of these hybrids. [00:05:11] So it's not, it's not something that is just, can be just said. You can say one thing about it or that. And, and the idea of hybridizing doesn't imply anything at all, really, like it is just this process that happens that we've been doing for a long time. This might be a good thing to dispel some of the prejudices. [00:05:34] You know, something like the word foxy often gets thrown around when we start talking about hybrids. I did a whole podcast about this what's really interesting, I just brought this word up to a, a young couple here in LA who are growing grapes and they, they had no idea what I was talking about. [00:05:49] So that's kind of encouraging. Like in, in the younger generations, these prejudices and some of these words that we inherited from the last century , are dying out truly. Which is great, but it still persists and you still hear it a lot and. If anybody goes online and researches some of these grapes, so much of the information available online is actually still misinformation and prejudiced because it comes from this vinifirous centric culture. [00:06:15] And so it's really important for people to understand that like foxy is not what it sounds like. It sounds like it would be this animalistic, musky, maybe scent gland tinged aroma, flavor thing, but. If you taste the grapes that are known as foxy and you go, you know, start researching this by tasting, you'll find that it's actually kind of delicious. [00:06:37] It's usually fruity and you know, candy like strawberry raspberry flavors. And for those of us in the US. It's often something we associate with Grapiness because of Welchs. And the flavors of Welchs, which come from the Concord grape, which is a Foxy grape, are these grapey flavors that we grew up with. [00:06:57] This sense of like grape candy and stuff like that. And that's a lot of times what you find in these, but again, it depends a lot on. The level of the compounds that are in that specific hybrid. Again, you can't, you can't generalize. And just like with anything, if you mix different compounds together, you'll get these nuances and you might have some of that flavor or aroma, but it'll be blended with other things. [00:07:17] And so it takes on new characteristics. So it's way more complex than just thinking like a. All grapes that are hybridized are foxy. That's absolutely not true. Or that foxy is this monolithic thing or that foxy is bad. None of those are true. And then really the other thing to realize is in. Grapes in the native North American varieties of species of grapes. [00:07:41] There's really only one that has been used traditionally in grape breeding and hybridization that has these flavors. And that's Vitus labrusca. It just happened to be used quite a bit because it's endemic to the East coast where a lot of the Europeans who started all this breeding were living and, and it was, you know, very readily apparent in the forest of the East coast. [00:07:59] So that. Got used a lot and it's also got a lot of great qualities of fungal resistance and stuff like that. Muscadine is the other grape that has it, but it's got a different genetic structure so it doesn't get crossed a lot or hybridized a lot. [00:08:11] Craig Macmillan: So like, what are the advantages of hybrids where you take vinifira and you cross it with a Native American indigenous grape? What are the benefits? [00:08:21] Adam Huss: Yeah. Another great question. Just , the historical perspective on this is really important. I think. So, you know, Europeans came here a couple hundred years ago, and eventually they brought some of their favorite plants over, one of which were their grapes. And what they noticed right away is that their grapes, I. [00:08:38] Suffered and died without exception, just across the board. Anything they brought over grape wise just kept dying, kept dying. You know, many people tried for a century at least, you know, including people like Thomas Jefferson, people with enormous amounts of resources, and they just failed. They failed to grow these grapes. [00:08:56] Meanwhile, you know, these things like. Norton, this, these hybridized grapes started developing and people noticed like, oh, this grape, it's crossing with some of , the local varieties and it's doing really well. So they began to realize, like they didn't know then that part of, one of the benefits that you get is phylloxera resistance, for example. [00:09:16] But that was a big one and came to save, you know, Europe's wine industry at the end of the 19th century. But also you have these grapes that . Evolved with the fungal pathogens of this, of these climates of North America and other places around the planet. So they've developed resistance and tolerance for all these things. [00:09:38] And so when you cross them with vinifira, you get some of the desirable characteristics that you might like from Vera, and hopefully you'll get some of that, you know, hardiness and fungal resistance and some of the other, just. General benefits of having hybridized interesting new flavors and characteristics [00:09:56] Craig Macmillan: have you seen some examples of this in your, in your travels? [00:10:01] Adam Huss: the fungal resistance and things like [00:10:03] Craig Macmillan: resistance or Pierces disease resistance or anything like that. [00:10:07] Adam Huss: Oh yeah. I mean, I. Whew, so many. I mean, the fact that people can grow grapes organically in Vermont for example, relies almost entirely on hybrids. You know, first of all, they have extremely cold winters there. They have extremely wet, hot, humid summers there. And if you try to grow vinifera there the only way to do it is with chemicals and, and a lot of heartache and, and high risk agriculture. [00:10:35] But here we have somebody like Matt Niess, who's working entirely with hybrids, with his winery, north American Press, and basically he's not using any sprays in any of his vineyards in here in California because these. These grapes have genetics that developed for resistance to the fungal pathogens of the East Coast. [00:10:55] And so you bring them to this nice dry, you know, Mediterranean climate, they're just like, they're crazy. They're like you know, they're, you can basically spray free now. I mean, some people have a problem with zero sprays because they don't want things to develop, but he has a 70-year-old baco noir vineyard, for example, that's in like a wet region in Sonoma that. [00:11:18] He has never sprayed and it's pumping out grapes and looking beautiful every year. And the really interesting thing about it's, there are some inter plantations of vinfiera in that like somebody. Planted something. Maybe it was Pinot Noir in with the Baco. It's like one every, you know, like there's only a few, a handful of these scattered throughout the acre of the Baco noir, and you can tell which ones those are every year because they're just decimated by mildew by the end of the year, whereas the Baco is just spotless and beautiful. [00:11:46] So that's a really like obvious, [00:11:49] Craig Macmillan: What are the wines like? The bako noir? I've never had a bako noir. [00:11:53] Adam Huss: Oh, his wines. Well, so Baco is nice. It's, I mean, it's higher acid. It's almost like a high acid. Gosh, I don't know what, it's hard. I, I, I hate to go down the rabbit hole of like trying to compare it to a vinifira, but it is unique. But it's a deep red almost interior, like with deep purple, higher acid flavors, but pretty balanced, really luscious. Dark fruited flavors maybe a little. Like Syrah, like meatiness, there may be a touch. You might find that it depends on the year. He's had a couple different vintages, so it's been really interesting to see. I'm, I'm kinda like loving following that year by year, seeing the vintage variation and what. [00:12:35] Different things come out because nobody's really doing this. Nobody's, nobody's experimenting with these. So we don't really know how they'll do in, in California other than what he's doing. And just a couple other growers. But he also this year introduced awba for the first time back into California. [00:12:50] The last catawba Vines were ripped out of California in like the sixties, and he, planted some and finally was able to harvest a crop this year and released what was once. California, I mean, the America's most popular wine from the Ohio River Valley is sparkling catawba, and it's like pink and just delicious, beautiful, beautiful stuff. [00:13:10] If I can step back, I think a lot of the discussion of hybrids, again, comes from this perspective of vinifira culture and how do we. Help vinifera become better. How do we use these hybrids as a tool to help, you know, this sort of vinifira centric culture? But I, I would, I'd like to reframe it. [00:13:31] I think a better way to look at this is hybridization is kind of just what we always do with agriculture. It's how you evolve and adapt your agriculture. Ecologically in the absence of modern chemistry that we have. So like before World War ii, and part of, and this is part of the history, France's history too, is like, you know, we had RA decimating their, their vineyards as well as. , we didn't just bring phylloxera back from North America, we brought BlackRock, Downey mildew, powdery mildew. So , their vines were just like dying. Like they were just dying. And so there was this urgent need and a lot of the hybridization, a lot of, some of our, you know, hybrids like Save El Blanc and things like that. [00:14:15] Came from French breeders who were just trying to save the French wine industry. Like they just wanted to have wine, let alone vinifira. You know, it was that. It was pretty bad at the end of that set, you know? And so they developed these new things and then we, you know, things like Isabella and catawba and things like that were coming over from North America, some of our hybrids that came from here, and pretty soon they had these really productive, really hardy vines with new, interesting flavors that. [00:14:41] People kinda liked 'cause they are like fruity and delicious and interesting and new and, and if you're a farmer and you have less inputs and you get a more productive, like higher yields on your vine, like, it's just kind of a no-brainer. And so people were just planting these things. They really were taking off. [00:14:59] And in 1934, the French were like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like our, our, first of all, our. Ancient vinifera cultures are going to be completely diluted, but second of all, we're gonna devalue the market 'cause we're gonna have all this like, it's too abundant, you know? So they made, in 1934, they made hybrids illegal in the French Appalachians. [00:15:17] And so that legacy is something that still sticks with us. Of course then World War II happened and we. Didn't really pay much attention to wine at all 'cause we were just trying to survive. But once World War II was over and the the war machine transferred into the pesticide and industrial agricultural machine, the French realized they could keep Vera alive on root stocks of American hybrids or American native varieties by spraying them with these new novel chemistry chemicals. [00:15:49] And so then they started enforcing the ban on hybrids because they could, and they knew they could have the, this alternative. And so that's when you saw like they had their own sort of version of reefer madness where you, you saw a lot of misinformation and hyperbole and outright propaganda and lies about these, these grapes because they were trying to get them out of French vineyards. [00:16:10] It's important to realize that Ban the EU just lifted the ban on hybrids in Appalachian wine in 2021. So it's kind of not surprising that some of these prejudices and misinformation still persist today. We're not too far away from that. I. [00:16:26] Craig Macmillan: And, and why was the band lifted? Do you know? [00:16:30] Adam Huss: That's a great question. It's, it was lifted for ecological reasons because they're realizing these are really important to dealing with climate change. This is like, if you want a sustainable industry, you need to be able to adapt. When you're inside this, this world of vinifira, what I call the vinifira culture, which is, you know, very centered on Vera. [00:16:50] You don't realize how strange it is. You know, it's kind of like growing up with a, a weird family, you know? It's all you know, so you don't know how strange they are until you start seeing the rest of the world. But to think that, you know, 50 years ago we just decided that maybe like. 10 grapes were the pinnacle of viticultural achievement for all time, and we've basically invested all of our energies into, you know, propagating those around the planet and preserving them at all costs is kind of strange when you think about the whole history of agriculture. [00:17:20] And it's really only possible because of cheep fossil fuels and the novel chemistry that we. Have put into our systems. And so if you take those out, if you start thinking ecologically about how do you develop a wine system, I mean the question is like, does it make sense when farming in a world where the only constant is change and we just live in a dynamic world, does it make sense to try to do everything you can to prevent change? [00:17:45] Like is prevention of change like a good strategy? And so I think, you know, diversity and adaptation are. What have always worked, you know, historically through agriculture, and that's kind of the future. I mean, in a real sense, vinifera culture is the past and hybrids are the future. If we want to have a future, there's my enthusiastic, [00:18:09] Craig Macmillan: Well, I'd like you to expand a little bit more on that. 'cause we we have a group of hybrids that are well known or are commonly used. I've, I've been hearing about Marquette a lot more, um, As having a lot of potential WW. What does that future potentially look like and what are some things that would have to happen for that potential to be realized? [00:18:31] Adam Huss: So we have invested, you know, millions of dollars in time and energy and even policy into developing, , the chemicals that we now use to support our, viticulture. And to make it possible in places like Virginia, where, you know, they're developing a whole wine industry there around vinifira in a climate that is, you know, like I said, that was the climate that like Thomas Jefferson failed for and everyone else for hundreds of years failed to grow it there. [00:18:59] If we invested that same amount of time and energy and money into breeding programs and into. Research for the kinds of things that we're now discovering, like DNA markers so that we can have DNA marker assisted breeding. So you're, you're speeding up the breeding process by sometimes two, three years. [00:19:19] Which is, which is significant in a process that can take, you know, 10 to 20 years that any, any little bit helps. So that kinda stuff and just more of it, more private breeders, making it more valuable for private breeders. I always think it's really interesting that like billionaires would rather just do another sort of like cult. [00:19:39] Ego, Napa cab investment, you know, rather than like breed their own personal variety of grape that nobody else could have. I mean, I'm not recommending that, but like, to me that seems really interesting as an idea. You could just have your own proprietary grape variety if you wanted to, you know, but nobody's thinking that way. [00:19:58] But I would say breeding, putting our, our time and energy into breeding not new varieties is, . Really important and, and working with the ones that are already there, I mean. The only reason California's so such strangers to them is because it's so easy to grow here. You know, we're relatively speaking and I get that. [00:20:15] I mean, you know, people like what they like and, and change is hard and market conditions are what they are. But I think we're at a point where. Marking conditions are changed. Like I said, you know, this young couple I was just talking to don't, don't have never even heard the word foxy. And so I think there's a lot more openness to just what's in the glass. Now. [00:20:35] Craig Macmillan: So some. Of it's messaging. If we can have wines that people can taste and do it in a context that's new to them. So there may be an opportunity here with newer wine drinkers or younger wine drinkers potentially, is what it sounds like to me. [00:20:48] Adam Huss: Yeah, and I. I mean, some of this is also realizing all the different ways that hybrids are already being used and could be used. Like, you know, we know you mentioned Pierce's disease. Pierce's disease is this disease that's endemic to California and is heading north. I mean, it's really on the threshold of all of the major wine regions of, of California. [00:21:11] And the only ways . To stop it without hybrids, without resistant hybrids are, are pretty intense. You know, it's like eliminating habitat through, , basically creating a sterile medium of your vineyard and then spraying with insecticides, you know some, sometimes pretty intense insecticides. [00:21:29] The alternative though is there are now multiple varieties of grapes that are. Resistant to them that are tolerant to it so they, they can carry the bacteria, but it won't affect the health of the vine. Those were bred, some of them here, right here in California at uc Davis. And yet if you go to the University of California Agricultural Network Resources page that, you know, kind of handles all the IPM for California, sort of like the resource. [00:21:56] And if you read about Pierce's disease, it makes zero mention of using tolerant. Varieties as a management strategy. And it makes no mention that there are even are tolerant varieties to Pierce's disease as a management strategy. So just that kind of stuff is the shift that has to happen. 'cause it just shows how vinifera centric our entire industry is, like from the top down, even when there are these great strategies that you can use and start implementing to combat these things, ecologically versus chemically. [00:22:25] They're not there, you know, they're not being mentioned. So just little things like that would go a long way. Also, you know, I mean, one of my fun little facts is like. There are already hybrids being used significantly, like probably everybody on who's listening to this has, if you've bought a bottle of wine at a grocery store that was under 20 bucks, you've probably drunk hybrids because 10,000 acres of ruby red is grown in California to make mega purple and mega purples. Pretty much in every, like, you know, mass produced under $20 bottle of wine and it's got esra, Vitus, esra in it. So you've probably been drinking hybrids and not even known about it. [00:23:04] In terms of these Andy Walker hybrids, I do have a little that which were bred for Pierce's disease resistance. I also have kind of a fun story in that I, as you know, like we've, we've both talked to Adam Tolmach, who replanted a whole block that he lost to Pierce's disease with these hybrid varieties, and these are designed specifically to retain a lot of vinifira characteristics. They're like 97% back crossed to be. vinifira and 3% with Vitus, Arizona to have that Pierce's disease resistant specifically. So they don't have a lot of the other benefits that like a higher percentage of North American native varieties would have. Like they, they're still susceptible to powdery mildew and other mildew pretty, pretty intensely, [00:23:44] but just in terms of flavor for anybody who's out there. So I've, I've barrel tasted with Adam. Tasted each of those varieties individually out a barrel. And then we went to his tasting room and tried all of his wines and, and got to, and then he, instead of keeping, he has two red hybrid varieties, two white hybrid varieties, and he blends them and makes a, you know, a, a red blend and a white blend that he calls a state red and state white. [00:24:09] And we went to his tasting room and he makes beautiful wine. All of his wines are great, but no joke. Everybody in my party. Preferred the hybrids to like all of his pinots or raw chardonnay, I mean, I have no idea why. I mean, but, and that's just anecdotal, obviously nothing scientific, but the very least I can say the, the flavors are exciting and delicious. [00:24:29] Right. [00:24:30] Craig Macmillan: If you can get them in front of the consumer, [00:24:33] Adam Huss: Yeah. [00:24:33] Craig Macmillan: the key. That's really the key. [00:24:35] Adam Huss: Right, right, [00:24:36] Craig Macmillan: And for, your own wine making. Are you making wine from hybrids for yourself? [00:24:40] Adam Huss: Not yet just 'cause there are, there just aren't any in California very much, you know, I mean, it's like little patches here and little patches there. And the people that have them are using them for themself, you know, for their own growing. They've grown them specifically you know, Camus has planted some of these Andy Walker hybrids along their riparian corridors to prevent Pierce's disease. [00:24:58] Those varieties specifically are being used. I don't know if they're blending those in. With like their cab or whatever. I honestly think they could, but I don't know if they are. They're probably, I dunno what they're doing with them, but I do grow them here in Los Angeles and I'm, but they're, you know, it's like I'm trying out a bunch of different things, partly just to see how they do, because, you know, they haven't been grown here. [00:25:21] They were developed for colder, wetter climates and so, you know what, how will they grow here in Los Angeles? There's a lot of unanswered questions for some of these. [00:25:30] Craig Macmillan: You and I were chatting before the interview and you have a, a new project that you're very. Excited about tell us a little bit about that, because I thought that was pretty cool. [00:25:39] Adam Huss: Yeah. Thanks. So this past summer, my wife and I finalized the acquisition of this farm in upstate New York that I'm going to develop into a. Married Vine Vida Forestry Demonstration and Research Project. And, and married vines, essentially vines growing with living trees. [00:26:02] But the best way to think about it is if you know the three Sisters of Agriculture, the corn, beans and squash idea, where you plant these. This guild of, of a Polyculture guild, and they have these symbiotic stacking benefits and productivity. This is what a married vine polyculture is for perennial agriculture. And so I don't just see it as vine and tree, but also vine and tree, and then a ground cover and or small shrubs or things like that that are also perennials planted in a guild together to create these stacking benefits and productivity. [00:26:35] Multiple productivity layers as well as making it a grable system because the vines will be up in trees and and we're gonna call it the Beyond Organic Wine Forest Farm. [00:26:47] Craig Macmillan: So gimme some more detail on this. So like, what are the other plants that are in the forest and how are the vines, what's the spacing like? How, how many trees per vine or vine per tree? [00:27:01] How is the vine trellis? Um, I just, I'm really curious about this idea because this goes back to very, very ancient times. [00:27:09] Adam Huss: Yes. Yeah, yeah, [00:27:09] Craig Macmillan: Uh, that I've read about. I've never seen evidence of it, but I have been told that going back to like Roman times, they would plant grapevines, interplant with things like olives, [00:27:18] Adam Huss: yeah, yeah. Yeah. And [00:27:20] Craig Macmillan: use the olive as a trails. [00:27:22] I mean, is this the, is this the same kind of concept? [00:27:24] Adam Huss: You can see some of this still in Italy. So even pre roam the Etruscan times is what the oldest versions of this that are still visible in Campania, just north of Napoli, I think is the largest married vine system that is still in production. And I think it's about, it might be about 34 hectares of this variety where they have elm trees. That are really tall, full sized elm trees. [00:27:51] And then between them they sort of have wires or ropes between the trees and the vines grow up like up 15 meters. Like it's crazy. Like the guys that harvest this, they have like specially designed ladders that are built for their stance so that they can like lock into these 18 meter ladders and be up there like with a little pulley and a bucket, and they're lowering grapes down from way up in the end. [00:28:14] And you get. So many cool things about that, you know, the, the ripeness and the PHS of the grapes change, the higher you go up in that system. , the thinking is they might have even been used to like. Just inhibit invading armies because , it's like a wall of vines and trees that create like almost a perimeter thing. [00:28:33] That that's also how they're being used in Portugal, they are sort of like if you have a little parcel of land, you use trees and vines to create like a living fence keep your domestic animals inside. And animals that might eat them outside and protect, you know, from theft and things like that. [00:28:51] Keep all your crops in a little clo, like a little controlled area. There are old systems where. They're more like feto systems where they were using maple trees and just pollarding them at, at about head height. And every year, every year or two, they would come in and clip off all the new growth and feed it to the livestock. [00:29:10] And meanwhile, the vines were festooned between the, the maple trees is like, you know, just like a garland of, of grapevine. So there's a lot of different things. And what I wanna do is trial several of them. One of the most. Interesting ones that I just saw in whales uses living willows, where you literally just stick a willow slip in the ground, bend it over to the next one that's about a meter and a half away and attach it. [00:29:35] And so you have these arched willow branches that grow once you stick 'em in the ground. They start growing roots and they create like a head high trellis, like a elevated trellis system, and you plant vines in them. And, and it literally looks just like. Like a row of grapevines that you would find here, except the, the trellis is alive and there's no wires and, and you prune the tree when you prune the vine in the winter, you know? [00:29:58] And Willow, I, I don't know if you know, but the, the other interesting thing about that is like willow has been used historically that the salicylic acid is known. Obviously that's aspirin and stuff like that. That's where we get, you know, one of our oldest like pain relievers and things like that. [00:30:12] But. It's used in biodynamic preps as well as an antifungal. And so there's some thought that like this system could be really beneficial to the vines growing with those. Specifically for that, like for antifungal properties or just creating a, you know, showering the vines with this, this salicylic acid thing that will help them grow and have health throughout the season without, with, again, reduced need for sprays of anything. [00:30:37] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, and that was why I brought it up is because there's the idea of working with the natural ecology of what's in the germ plasm of native plants. I. Mixing with an import plant. [00:30:51] And then there's the other way of looking at it and saying, well, what, what about recreating the conditions under which this plant that has evolved in the first place? And I, I just think that there's really fascinating concept. It's really intriguing to me. [00:31:05] yeah. And there's so many different ways you could do it, and that's why it's interested in what you're planning on doing, because there's obviously a lot of ways you could do it. [00:31:11] Adam Huss: Yeah, I wanna experiment with several. Like you said, the, the soil benefits are incredible potentials. And then when you're also thinking about what do I do besides just vines and trees, and I mean, the other thing is like. How does it make the wine taste? Like if you plant a vine with an apple tree or a, a black locust tree, or a honey locust tree, or a, or a mulberry tree, like, does, is the vine happier with one of those trees? [00:31:35] You know what I mean? Does it, does it, you know, and if it is, does that make the wine taste better at the end of the day? All these are really fun questions for me. That's why I'm really excited to do it. But also like what are the benefits in terms of, you know, the health of the vine, the health of the tree? [00:31:50] Do they are, is there symbiotic elements? It seems like they would, I, I think a lot about what kind of mycorrhizal connections and associations the trees have, because we vines have our Arbuscular connections. And so if you plant them with a tree that has similar connections, they might actually have a symbiotic benefit. [00:32:07] They might increase that soil network even further. And then if you're planting shrubs like blueberries or flowers, you know, perennial flowers or Forbes and things like that, that could either be grazed or could be gathered or could be another crop even for you, or it could be a protective thing. [00:32:22] There are things like indigo that you might plant because. Deer don't like it. So you might want that growing around the base of your vine tree thing while it's young, because it will prevent the deer from grazing down your baby vines and trees, you know? And so there's just a, a myriad ways of thinking about these guilds that you can do. [00:32:39] Obviously these are, I. Yeah, they're, they're different. If I was doing it in California, if I was in California, I would be thinking more about olives and pomegranates and figs and things like that, you know, like there's a lot less water for growing trees here, so depending on where you are, unless you're on the coast. [00:32:55] Craig Macmillan: Are you planning on using hybrids in your project? [00:32:59] Adam Huss: Yeah. I don't know how I would do it any other way. Yeah, it's, definitely a climate that. If you try to grow ra, like you're just asking for trouble. And, and just, you know, because of my approach is so ecological, like I will attempt to be as minimal inputs as possible is the other way I look at it. [00:33:20] You know, try to just imitate what's happening around to, to see what that landscape wants to do and then how it. Maintains its health and resilience and maybe, and, and I mean, my, my ideal is to spray not at all. But you know, with not a dogma about that. If I see an issue or if I think like I'm building up these pathogen loads in the vineyard, maybe I'll spray once a year, even if they seem like they're doing okay. [00:33:47] You know, I'm not like dogmatic about nose spray, but I, it's a, it's a fun ideal to reach for. And I, you know, I think potentially with. Some of the symbiotic benefits of these systems that could be achievable with with the right hybrids. You know, I mean, again, I don't wanna generalize about hybrids because you have the Andy Walker hybrids on the one end, which you have to treat just like vinifira in terms of the spray program. [00:34:10] And then on the other hand, you have something like Petite Pearl or Norton, which is like in many cases is almost like a bulletproof. Grape, you know, and in California specifically, it would be like insanely. And then you have things right down the middle. Things like tranet that you know, is basically like, I could blind taste you on Tranet and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between it and gewurztraminer . [00:34:31] But it's more cold, hearty, it has a little more disease resistance. Gives you a just a little bit, a little bit more of a benefit while still getting flavors that are familiar to you. If you like those flavors. [00:34:43] Craig Macmillan: Is there one thing that you would tell growers on this topic? One takeaway. [00:34:48] Adam Huss: Great question. I think give hybrids the same allowance that you give Vinifera. I. We all know there's a huge diversity of Vin Nira from Petite Ough to Riesling. And not everyone is right for every wine drinker and not all of them per perform the same in the vineyard. And, and you know, and we tolerate a lot of. [00:35:12] Frailty and a lot of feebleness in our veneer vines. We, we do a lot of care. We do a lot of like, you know, handholding for our veneer vines when necessary. If we extended the same courtesy to hybrids in terms of understanding and willingness to work with them. I think like that would just go a really long way too. [00:35:33] And I think we'd be surprised to find , they're a lot less handholding than, than Venire generally speaking. I. But also just try some. I think a lot of the prejudice comes from just not being exposed to them right now. You know, if you, if you think, if you're thinking negative thoughts about hybrids, get out there and drink some, you probably just haven't had enough yet. [00:35:51] And if you don't like the first one, you know, how many bad Cabernets have you had? I mean, if, if I had stopped drinking vinifira, I [00:35:59] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, that's, that's a really good point. If I judged every wine by the first wine that I tasted, that's probably not a very, [00:36:06] Adam Huss: right. [00:36:07] Craig Macmillan: good education there, [00:36:08] Adam Huss: Prevented me from exploring further, I would've missed out on some of the more profound taste experiences of my life if I'd let that, you know, guide my, you know, my thinking about it. So yeah, I think it's like anything with prejudice, once you get beyond it, it kind of, you see how silly it is, man. [00:36:25] It's, it's like so freeing and, and there's a whole world to explore out there. And like I said, I really think they're the future. Like if we wanna have a future, . We can only cling to the past for so long until it just becomes untenable. [00:36:38] Craig Macmillan: Right. Where can people find out more about you? [00:36:42] Adam Huss: So beyondorganicwine.com is the, the website for me. The email associate with that is connect@organicwinepodcast.com. [00:36:53] Craig Macmillan: Our guest today has been Adam Huss. He is the host of the Beyond Organic Podcast and is the co-owner of Centralas Wines in Los Angeles. [00:37:01] Thank you so much. This has been a really fascinating conversation and I'd love to connect with you at some point, talk more about. Out this, thanks for being on the podcast [00:37:08] Adam Huss: Thank you so much, Craig. Appreciate it. [00:37:13] Beth Vukmanic: Thank you for listening. Today's podcast was brought to you by VineQuest. A Viticultural consulting firm based in Paso Robles, California, offering expert services in sustainable farming, vineyard development, and pest management. With over 30 years of experience, they provide tailored solutions to enhance vineyard productivity and sustainability for wineries and agribusinesses across California. [00:37:38] Make sure you check out the show notes for links to Adam. His wine, brand, Centralis plus sustainable wine growing podcast episodes on this topic, 135 Cold hardiness of grapes 217. Combating climate chaos with adaptive wine, grape varieties, and 227. Andy Walker's Pierce's Disease resistant grapes are a success at Ojai Vineyard. [00:38:04] If you liked the show, do us a big favor by sharing it with a friend, subscribing and leaving us a review. You can find all of the podcasts at vineyardteam.org/podcast and you can reach us at podcast@vineyardteam.org. [00:38:19] Until next time, this is Sustainable Wine Growing with Vineyard Team.   Nearly perfect transcription by Descript

On this episode of the Dubuque Area Sports Podcast, Everybody's Favorite Coach, Coach Maneman, sits down with one of the most electric athletes in Eastern Iowa — Cameron Templeton from Marquette Catholic.Templeton is the definition of a five-tool player — speed, power, glove, arm, and bat — and he's been turning heads since he first stepped onto the varsity field. Now a senior, he's the heart and soul of a Marquette Catholic team that's joined forces with Bellevue due to low numbers but is off to a blazing hot start this season.

President Trump's presser on Wednesday flew off the rails. He raged at a reporter for questioning his acceptance of a luxury jet from Qatar. He snapped when asked why he's resettling white Afrikaners but no other refugees. And he tried to humiliate the South African president by brandishing printouts about the deaths of white South Africans but couldn't defend his lie of a “white genocide” unfolding there. The corruption and the white nationalism—Trump openly promised both during the campaign, and he's now doing them. Yet on the latter, a new Marquette poll finds wide public disapproval of Trump's deportations of longtime residents, and shows independents tiling strongly against him on immigration, revealing fresh weakness on this issue. We talked to veteran labor strategist Michael Podhorzer, author of a new piece on his Substack arguing that the anti-MAGA majority that didn't show up in 2024 is now visibly reconstituting itself in polls. He explains that Trump's unhinged presser helps show how Trump himself is making that happen.  Looking for More from the DSR Network? Click Here: https://linktr.ee/deepstateradio Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices