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Send us a note about this episode. We'll reply and thank you on a future episodeEvery PR professional has sat in a meeting where leaders ask you to “show up in AI”Here's the problem. The AEO/GEO industry has built an entire measurement apparatus around citations… the moment an AI visibly names your brand. But the research shows that moment is essentially an echo of a decision that was already made, upstream, in conversations that left no trace. Brands have been optimizing for the receipt, when the purchase decision happened days ago.The deeper irony is that the work which does move the needle in those invisible conversations looks exactly like what PR teams have always done. Original research. Expert voice. Earned credibility. Third-party validation. The toolkit that has historically been the hardest to attribute is, it turns out, the one doing the most work in the AI era. The people who were always right about what good looks like just never had the data to prove it… until now.Listen For3:35 Why Does AI Influence Start Before the Conversion Stage?7:41 Is AEO Really Just Earned Media Strategy in Disguise?10:09 What Are the Three Levers That Shape AI's View of a Brand?13:13 Are “Hey AI” Pages and Schema Tricks Ethical or Effective?15:49 How Can PR Teams Prove Earned Media Builds AI Influence? Guest: Tom Rudnai, Founder and CEO Demand-GeniusWebsite | X | LinkedIn DougSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestSupport the show

Send us a note about this episode. We'll reply and thank you on a future episodeThere is a prayer that crisis communicators have been quoting for decades. “Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”It sounds right. It feels grounding. But maybe it's been pointing us in the wrong direction the whole time. The problem is the concept of CONTROL. Because control, in a crisis, is a myth. And every strategy built on the assumption that you can control the outcome of a crisis is a strategy built on sand. Let's replace that idea with INFLUENCE. Doing that replaces an entire philosophy.Alongside that shift comes something more uncomfortable… the suggestion that when a crisis hits, the quality of your advice has almost nothing to do with your frameworks, your playbook, or your years of experience. It has to do with who you are as a human being. As a parent. As a citizen. As a person who is also living through the same world your client is trying to navigate. The professional and the person are not separate. And pretending they are, may be the most dangerous crisis communication strategy of all. Listen For3:41 Why Are Global Risks Becoming More Connected and Harder to Manage?6:09 Is Employee Mental Health a Bigger Business Risk Than AI?9:32 Why Do Companies Know the Risks but Still Fail to Prepare?11:20 What Is “Agency” in Crisis Communications and Why Does It Matter?14:29 How Can Leaders Use Empathy and Understanding to Respond to a Crisis?Guest: Rod Cartwright, Principal, Rod Cartwright ConsultingEmail | Website | LinkedIn 2026 Reputation, Risk, and Resilience Report DougSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestStories and Strategies is the Official Podcast Sponsor of IABC World Conference in Toronto June 14-16, 2026Click here to check it out https://wc.iabc.com Support the showStories and Strategies is the Official Podcast Sponsor of IABC World Conference in Toronto June 14-16, 2026Click here to check it out https://wc.iabc.com Support the show

Send us a note about this episode. We'll reply and thank you on a future episodeThis episode was first published in May 2021.Nudge Theory burst onto the scene in 2008 when Cass Sunstein and Richard Thaler published their book “Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness.” The simplest models of economics take preferences as given, but nudge ideas suggest we can be moved, steered, and in some cases manipulated. Nudge has influenced politicians around the World. There are “Nudge Units” in government in the UK, US, Germany, Japan, and even Canada. The World Bank, United Nations, and European Commission have “Nudge” teams.Guest Rory Sutherland, Vice chairman Ogilvy UKWebsite To book Rory for your event emailCanadian Nudge Team = BeSci Team UK Nudge Team = Behavioural Insights Team Australian Nudge Team = Behavioural Economics Team of Australia American Nudge Team = Social and Behavioural Sciences Team Stories and Strategies is the Official Podcast Sponsor of IABC World Conference in Toronto June 14-16, 2026Click here to check it out https://wc.iabc.com Support the showStories and Strategies is the Official Podcast Sponsor of IABC World Conference in Toronto June 14-16, 2026Click here to check it out https://wc.iabc.com Support the show

The SAGA Agency AI Survey results are in, and small agency owners are feeling great about AI. Maybe too great. In this episode, Chip and Gini dig into the numbers and find the gap between how owners think they’re using AI and the reality of what's happening inside their businesses. The headline figures look impressive: 89% of respondents report regular or widespread AI use, 74% use it daily, and 88% say they’ve seen productivity gains. But Chip isn’t buying it. He questions whether the sample skews toward early adopters, or more likely, whether agency owners simply don’t have a clear enough picture of what “good” AI use looks like elsewhere. When 53% say they’re ahead of their peers but only 13% say they’re behind, the math doesn’t work. As Gini puts it, they’re probably grading themselves on usage habits, not operational depth. Next, Chip and Gini look at what agencies are actually doing with AI. Most activity falls squarely into what Chip calls “generative AI 101” — drafting emails, writing social posts, generating blog content. The more interesting stuff is largely absent. AI-assisted design work barely registers. Only 74% are even using AI to revise or edit content, a number both hosts find inexplicable given how easy and useful that is. Gini’s own example of running an article through an AP style agent before sending it to a notoriously precise editor at PR Daily illustrates exactly the kind of practical, low-friction habit that should be universal by now. Another data point they discuss is the disconnect between productivity gains and revenue. Agencies report getting faster, but their top-line numbers are flat or down. Gini’s read is that AI efficiency is getting absorbed into existing scope rather than converted into new value. Agencies are over-servicing clients at the same fees, filling freed time with more of the same work instead of building something new. On the pricing side, almost no one reported clients pushing for discounts tied to AI use. Instead of a reduction in cost, the larger enterprise clients are asking about data governance, usage policies, and procurement compliance. Chip advises unless your agency has the infrastructure to manage those requirements consistently, that’s a market best left to someone else. Key takeaways Chip Griffin: “There’s nothing in this data that suggests that there is widespread innovative use of it, widespread use of it for internal operations or for business development or any of those things.” Gini Dietrich: “AI is being absorbed into the existing scope. There’s silent commoditization so that clients are getting more for the same fees.” Chip Griffin: “Now is the time to experiment and figure out what works and what doesn’t when the cost of failure is much lower.” Gini Dietrich: “I don’t believe that AI is going to replace us. I believe that people who know how to use AI effectively are what’s going to replace you.” Resources Survey shows most owner-led agencies think they're ahead on AI. Most aren't. Related How agency owners can use AI as an always-on thought partner How AI impacts PR agencies and solos (featuring Karen Swim and Michelle Kane) Focus on AI value, not cost View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, as, as we sit here on a Monday and record this, I am truly optimistic. I have published my planned photo schedule for the evenings this week, and despite the fact that- … it says it’s gonna rain Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, I still have games on that calendar, and I am optimistic that we will actually get those games in even though they don’t generally play baseball and softball in the rain. Gini Dietrich: I don’t know if that’s optimistic or masochistic. Chip Griffin: Oh. No, masochistic would be they were lacrosse games and I know they’re gonna be played in the rain, and I’m still looking forward to getting  wet while I take the photos. Gini Dietrich: And you’re still looking forward to it. Chip Griffin: No, I suspect if the forecast is what it is, I think it is highly unlikely that any of those games will be played. Gini Dietrich: Well, good, then you can be optimistic that you don’t have to go and shoot photos. Chip Griffin: There you go. Yeah. I can be optimistic to have some, some evenings to catch up on, on real work instead of- Gini Dietrich: That’s right. That’s right … Chip Griffin: photography. But- That’s right … optimism is kind of the theme of the day here though, because we have recently completed the SAGA Agency AI Survey, and it, it turns out that agency owners, to nobody’s surprise, are eternally optimistic, and they are astoundingly optimistic about AI, and how they’re using it and what it means for their businesses. Gini Dietrich: Yes, indeed. So I looked at the results, and that is my takeaway as well, is that they’re extremely optimistic. 89% have regular or widespread use, 74% use it every day, 89% expect AI use to grow over the next 12 months. And so, yes, it is very optimistic. 88% report productivity gains, and 79% report quality gains. Chip Griffin: It is amazing how much work AI is doing for agencies today. It is, it is frankly unbelievable, and I mean that literally. Gini Dietrich: Literally, yes. Chip Griffin: I do not believe it. Yeah. I have either stumbled across a sample of the earliest adopters who are most interested in AI and have really taken it the furthest, or more likely, people don’t really understand what’s out there and so therefore think they are further ahead than they are. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I think it’s… Well, I mean, I will, I will say that the head of, the ahead of peers piece of it, so the data said that 53% believe that they’re somewhat or further ahead than their peers, and only 13% think they’re behind. That’s mathematically impossible. And so I think my take on it, and I’d love your take as well, is that they’re grading themselves on their usage and not on the operational depth of it. So for instance, they’re using ChatGPT every day as a habit, but they’re not operationalizing AI as a business model, and I think that 53% are confusing the two. Chip Griffin: Yeah, I mean, I, I think it’s probably a multitude of factors. I think part of it is that agency owners visualize a very low bar for their peers when it comes to AI. Gini Dietrich: Okay. Chip Griffin: And I, I think part of that is that people aren’t hearing a lot of examples of how agency, other agencies are using- Gini Dietrich: Sure … Chip Griffin: AI. They’re not as active as some of us may be in going out and seeing how other industries, similar industries are using AI and really testing the limits and understanding what’s possible. So I think part of it is that they don’t have an appropriate baseline to know whether they are indeed ahead or not because they’ve set the bar so low in their own minds. And I think that part of it is, you know, this point that if they’re just using it at all, they think that puts them ahead. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I think that that’s what’s going on. I think that they’re, that they’re saying, “Well yeah, I use it every day.” And that’s, and that’s what makes them think that they’re ahead. Chip Griffin: Right. But I, I think as we dig in deeper and we look at how they’re actually using it, it’s pretty obvious that, that most of the usage by these owners is what I would call generative AI 101. Draft me an email. Yep. Help me create a blog post or a social post. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: It is– There’s nothing in this data that suggests that there is widespread innovative use of it, widespread use of it for internal operations or for business development or any of those things. It really appears to be sort of the basics, sort of the things that people were talking about a year or two ago in terms of generative AI, and that seems to be where most of the activity and most of the stated value is. But even in those areas, there’s a good swath of agencies that aren’t even doing that. Gini Dietrich: Right. Chip Griffin: I think the, if I recall correctly, the number was only like 74% are using AI to help revise or edit content. It’s mind-boggling to me that that’s not almost 100%. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I agree. Yes. Chip Griffin: Because it’s the easiest way to improve the quality of your content. Gini Dietrich: Yes, it is. Yes. Chip Griffin: So I just, I can’t even imagine not just saying, “Hey, take a quick look at this.” I mean, even if it’s just to proof it. Just take a look through- Right … make, make sure I haven’t- Right … missed anything obvious here, and you know. Right. Because anytime I run it through, it tends to find something. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: So why aren’t you at least doing that? Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I mean, it’s funny you say that because we just submitted an article to PR Daily, and I know that Allison Carter is a huge, huge, huge, huge stickler for AP style. So I have an AP style agent, and I ran it through there, and it, I think it got five or six different things that I had missed. I was like, “Thank heaven.” Like, ’cause she, she will send it back. She’ll be like, “Nope.” I mean, huge stickler. So, and like, yes, to your point, like you should be using it for that, 100%. Chip Griffin: Yeah. I mean, that’s just– to, to me that’s a very basic use, but there are so many great things that you can do with it. I mean, the, the tiny percentage of people that are using it for anything design related- Gini Dietrich: Right. Yeah … was- It was almost 0%. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was shocking to me- It was shocking, yep … Chip Griffin: that such a small percentage seem to be using it for that, at all. I mean, we didn’t say you’re using it for every image or every video or those kinds of… But if you’re not even experimenting with it- Gini Dietrich: Yeah … Chip Griffin: you’re missing a real opportunity because there’s a lot that you can do with it. Now, I don’t– you know, one of the things that, that I don’t know is, you know, what percentage of these people may not do this because they have the ethical concern, right? And I’ve, I’ve been at a few events recently and watched a few talks online where, you know, there, there’s, there is an, what I consider an unnatural resistance to AI because of use of electricity or- Gini Dietrich: Yeah Chip Griffin: or because of- Data centers and, yeah … concerns over copyright and that kind of stuff. And so it causes people to swear off the platforms and tools altogether, rather than saying, “Let’s try to find solutions to all of these things.” And l- and let’s face it, there are solutions being sought for all of it, whether it’s the electricity angle, whether it’s the copyright angle. There’s a lot of work being done in that area, and for individuals to just say, “No, I’m just, I’m not even gonna do this,” is extraordinarily shortsighted in my view. Gini Dietrich: Oh, 100%, yeah. I, I mean, I think we’ve both talked about this ad nauseam, that you should… I don’t believe that AI is going to replace us. I believe that people who know how to use AI effectively are, is what’s gonna replace you. So if you’re putting your head in the sand, you are, you will be replaced for sure. Chip Griffin: Yeah, absolutely. I, I think the other place that was interesting, and you flagged this in, in your pre-show notes, is that they’re reporting largely productivity gains, and yet revenue seems to be flat or declining. Doesn’t really match up. Gini Dietrich: Nope. Again, doesn’t work. AI’s making everyone faster at work, but it’s not growing the business. That is not what we’re trying to do. So what it tells us, right, is that AI is being absorbed into the existing scope There’s silent commoditization so that clients are getting more for the same less, for, for the same fees, so we’re, we’re over-servicing. We’re filling our freed hours with admin, more client servicing or more meetings, and more billable work on undifferentiated services rather than building anything scalable. So that’s what I think is happening, is all of the work, all of the AI that… All the work that AI is doing is being absorbed into existing services, into existing fees, and we’re over-servicing rather than building new product lines or new service lines. Chip Griffin: Yeah, and there are so many opportunities for agencies to truly be innovative and to find these new things that it seems to me that, that any agency owner should be thinking about that and not so much just, you know, “How can we incrementally improve productivity? How can we make sure that we’re claiming we’re ahead of the rest of the pack?” How can you actually make a difference for your business for the long term? Because there is, there is huge runway to be had here, and now is the time to be experimenting when costs are much more reasonable than they are likely to be in the not-too-distant future. I can’t put a particular timeline on it- Yep but it is, is blatantly obvious that the cost of all of these tools is going to go up. Gini Dietrich: Yep … Chip Griffin: as it has with everything else. I mean, I remember the early days of the land grab of Google Ads, and I built an entire business on the back of really cheap Google ads in the early days. And those same ads that I got for pennies back twenty-five now are twenty dollars or more per click for the exact same search terms. And so the, these costs are going to increase. Now is the time to experiment and figure out what works and what doesn’t when the cost of failure is much lower. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I mean, I think you’re right. Like, the cost of failure is lower. The risk to failure is lower. Like, it’s… And it’s actually fun. You know, I did an, a webinar for IABC last week, and I showed them the PESO Model diagnostic that we just launched, and people were like, “How did you do this?” And I’m like, “I vibe coded it.” Like, I did it. Right. I was like, “Here’s what I want. Here’s what I want it to do,” and it took two or three iterations for me to get it exactly right, and there will be a version two because now that I’m seeing people take it, I’m like, “Oh, okay, we should change that question or move this around.” Like, right? But I launched a version one out there just to see, and we’re getting data from it. I get all of the data, which is fantastic. I can see where people sit in the PESO Model maturity ladder. You don’t have to have a copyright like I have with the PESO Model. You can absolutely do… Like, we just vibe coded an ROI calculator for our lead nurturing program for, you know, prospects. Here’s an ROI calculator. Here’s the four things that we hear prospects say they have challenges with. Here’s how much we think it… Like, and you can move the numbers around, and you can toggle things. We vibe coded that. Right. We didn’t have to hire a developer for it. We did it internally, and it was super fun to work on as a team. So there’s so many things that you can do. Chip Griffin: That really there’s no shortage, and there are plenty of people out there who are sharing different ideas- Yes … and so the inspiration that you can take- Gini Dietrich: Yes. Yes … Chip Griffin: from others is immense. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Chip Griffin: But I, but I do worry that, you know, that this survey sort of reinforces what you and I have talked about which is that, that there’s not enough awareness and incentive apparently amongst agency owners to be pursuing these paths, and it does seem to be much more of a complacent attitude towards the use of AI in their businesses. I will say, it, I mean, at least it is… I was encouraged by the fact that agencies do not seem to be seeing clients calling up and saying, “Hey, we wanna cut your fee.” So that’s- Yep. Yeah, that’s good. Yep … that’s, that’s been a widespread fear- Yep … but it was- Yep … the, the data was quite clear that that is not something that is happening at least at the moment. We obviously don’t know whether clients are just deciding to do things on their own internally, and so, you know, maybe agencies are losing renewals or pitches to internal use of AI. Didn’t ask that question in particular. Maybe for a follow-up on somewhere down the road, that would be a good follow-up question. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But honestly, I was a little surprised that, that there didn’t seem to be any direct pricing pressure, at least from AI from clients. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, and I will, I mean, focus group of one, I will agree with that. One of the things that we are seeing is not pricing pressure, but we work with big companies, and going through procurement, which is always fun, the questions that we’re getting are, “How are you using AI? What environments do you use? How are you protecting our data? You know, how will you use this specific data?” So they, they ask those really specific questions, and we have to outline exactly what we’re going to do, and we can’t stray from that. So if something comes along six months from now that will improve it or make it better, we have to go back and revise sort of the AI policy that we’ve created with them with procurement. But that’s what we’re seeing so that it’s less about you should charge us less and more about we wanna know exactly what you’re doing with our information so that we can protect it, and we can firewall it and do all of the things that we need to do to make sure that it stays safe. Chip Griffin: Yeah, and the largest enterprise clients are always more worried about that stuff than anybody else. Of course. And so if- Of course … you know, as, as we’ve talked about before, if that’s a market you’re gonna play in, then you need to understand the impact not just on AI but other things. You need to price accordingly for that headache. And more importantly to your point about, you know, making sure that you don’t make a change six months from now that, that it violates the agreement, that, you know, it’s, it’s important that you have the infrastructure in place to manage those kinds of accounts. Which is, you know, these are all just more reasons why I would encourage most smaller agencies to steer clear of these because while they, they sound like great opportunities- … they come with a whole lot of extra headaches- Oh, yes … that you’re probably not- Gini Dietrich: Yes … Chip Griffin: thinking about. And if you’ve never had to experience it directly yourself, you have a, a real good chance of stepping in something somewhere along the way because you, you didn’t set up and you didn’t make sure that everything you do gets vetted by somebody who is familiar with the contract terms. Yeah. Which in a small agency is probably you, the owner, and do you- Yeah … really wanna be- Yep … filtering all of that kind of stuff? Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Yeah. Chip Griffin: Go ahead. Gini Dietrich: Oh, I was just gonna say, there’s also the, which we started to talk about, but 99, 98% are using AI in client work, 13% put it in contracts, 15% charge for it, 61% have no plans to charge, and you mentioned that 88% haven’t had a client ask for a discount. Chip Griffin: Yeah, I mean, I guess this is an area where I had less concern, honestly, because, I think that I, I’m not sure I would agree that agencies should be charging for AI explicitly. I think it should be creating new value that you can charge for. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Yes. Chip Griffin: But I, you know, one of the reasons why I put that question in there was because I was actually a little concerned that agencies might be explicitly trying to charge- Gini Dietrich: Interesting Chip Griffin: for some of these AI tools, and I, and I think that you shouldn’t because to me that’s like, you know, charging specifically for a freelancer or something like that. You, you need to be in a position where you’re focused on what are you producing in terms of deliverables, results, et cetera, for the client, and not the mechanics of how you get there. Because if you get into the, the space where you’re charging for the tools or for the use of AI, it takes away some of your flexibility in the future- Gini Dietrich: Mm-hmm … Chip Griffin: to either earn a greater profit or shift how you’re just doing things operationally or any of those kinds of things. So I’m actually not a fan of calling it out specifically, but it should create additional value for you- Yeah that you can charge for that. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Chip Griffin: I, I don’t- my guess is that people looked at it as a more direct are you charging for AI itself, and- Yeah … and so I was actually happy that there wasn’t a lot of that. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I would agree with that. You know, I think if you think about using AI to create new service lines, to create new opportunities- And really, I’m, I’m sure that every single person listening to this has a list of things they’ve always wanted to do. Our ROI calculator’s a great example of that. The PESO model diagnostic is another one. Like, I have probably four pages in my notebook of things that I would love to try at some point. This makes it accessible. You can do it yourself. You don’t have to wait until you can hire a developer. You don’t have to wait if you wanna build an app. You don’t have to wait until you can afford to hire an app developer. You can actually do this on your own. Will it be perfect? Will it be, you know, as great as, as if you hired a developer? No. But taking it out there as a beta test or a version one, absolutely you can do that, and test it out and see if it works, see if your idea has legs and has merit. And then use that to generate some income that then eventually you would hire a professional to help you repackage it and make it beautiful. Chip Griffin: Yeah, because I mean, you know, a lot of people are vibe coding apps and that kind of thing, and, and it is, it’s great that it gets you there, and it’s great that it, it’s causing you to expand your horizons. I think people do need to keep in mind that maintaining these applications over time- Yeah … requires a little bit more effort than- Yeah … than I think some people realize. Yeah … I’ve seen plenty of people vibe code these apps and be like, “Oh, cool. We’re all done.” Well, yeah, but if you’re gonna have a lot of users on it over time, there are gonna be hiccups. People are gonna do things that, that you don’t imagine. So if it’s something simple- Gini Dietrich: And I saw on Reddit yesterday that somebody had vibe coded an app and, and took it to, like, 40 people to beta test it, and it worked so well that it was costing him a significant amount of money- Yeah … to keep it going and he was like, “I don’t know what to do.” So there are those pieces of it, too, but I think just experimenting with some of your ideas, AI can help you do that for sure. Chip Griffin: Yeah, and if you can get to the proof of concept stage, that at least opens the door- Yeah … for you to, to begin to think through a rational business model for it. But you know, you, if you don’t even experiment, then you’re never gonna have that opportunity. And that brings us to the last point that I wanted to raise from the survey, which is this, the disconnect between how owners perceive their own capabilities with AI and their team’s capabilities- Mm-hmm … with AI. Gini Dietrich: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Chip Griffin: And owners, their optimism, extends very much to themselves, and they see them as at the – themselves as at the leading edge of AI, with their teams lagging behind. Not incompetent or inept or anything like that, but it was, I think it was 84% of owners rated themselves as moderately or very knowledgeable about AI, and 61% of their team as the same. So obviously a meaningful difference between those two. I think that, that 84% is extraordinarily generous scoring for the owners in terms of their knowledge of AI because I have conversations with a lot of owners. I would describe very, very few as very knowledgeable- And a small percentage as moderately knowledgeable. I think slightly knowledgeable is where I would put more- Gini Dietrich: Yes, I would agree with that … Chip Griffin: at least if we’re not grading on a curve. If we’re, if we’re grading on, you know, comparison to other similar professionals, I, I just don’t see small agencies as a place where AI today, at least, is thriving. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I totally agree with that, and like you, I mean, I’m not so much in the coaching business anymore, but I have lots and lots and lots of friends who run agencies, and same thing. Like, it’s… I would say it’s slightly knowledgeable. Chip Griffin: Yeah. And, but I do agree that probably many of their teams lag behind them because the teams don’t have the time. The owner isn’t making the investment in them in terms of time- Yep … or products or services. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: And so if you want to see that change in your agency, you know, you do need to drive that. You do need to encourage your team to be using more of these things. I mean, I… One of the numbers that did concern me was, I think half of the owners said that one of their biggest concerns with AI was their team’s over-reliance on AI. I am not seeing any evidence anywhere of over-reliance on AI by any agency employee. Gini Dietrich: Oh, I do. Chip Griffin: Over-reliance? Gini Dietrich: Mm-hmm. Chip Griffin: Okay. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: Do tell. Gini Dietrich: Mm-hmm. My own team. Sometimes I’m like, you guys- Chip Griffin: And I suppose part of this is how you define over-reliance. Gini Dietrich: Let’s not use AI for everything. You gotta actually use your brain. Chip Griffin: Fair enough. Mm-hmm. I guess, yeah, I, I guess to me, in the use cases that I see, with most agencies, it’s not relying on the AI enough and less so over-reliance, but I’m sure there are cases. Gini Dietrich: It is over-reliance in my organization for sure. Chip Griffin: Okay. That is good to know. So in any case, lots of room for agencies to continue to improve on AI, but happy that, that there is this optimism. I, I much prefer this to… I, you know, I when I put this survey out, I wasn’t sure if it was gonna be just all fear and doom and gloom and oh my God, you know- Yeah, sure … what is AI gonna do to my business? Yeah. ‘Cause you hear a lot of that- Mm-hmm … you know, when you’re talking with- Mm-hmm … agency owners. But for the most part, it doesn’t seem to be the case. It, it does… I think there are certainly pockets of over-optimism to a degree that, that needs to be addressed, and there needs to be more experimentation, more innovation, more investment and all of those things if agencies are really going to thrive with AI in the future. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I totally agree. Chip Griffin: So with that, that will wrap up this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And it depends.

Send us a note about this episode. We'll reply and thank you on a future episodeYou've been in that room. Maybe you are in it right now. The table is full, the voices are loud, and somewhere between the agenda and the first agenda item, you go quiet. Not because you don't know what to say. Because something in the room tells you it isn't your turn. You leave and you call it imposter syndrome. You make it about yourself. You wonder what's wrong with you. Nothing is wrong with you. The room did that.Confidence is not something you're both with. It's not the absence of nerves. And it's not volume. It's not the ability to dominate. It's trust. Trust in yourself that no matter what gets put in front of you, you will handle it. And the confidence gap that so many communicators feel is not a personal failing. It is an environmental one. Listen For:3:26 Is imposter syndrome really a personal problem, or is the room the problem?6:40 What kinds of rooms make professionals feel safe or excluded?9:14 How can you speak up when someone dominates the conversation?11:17 How did Advita Patel build confidence after years of self-doubt?15:09 What is an energy audit, and how can it protect your wellbeing?Guest: Advita Patel, Founder Comms Rebel, former President CIPRWebsite | Confidence Coaching site | LinkedInBook Decoding Confidence  DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestStories and Strategies is the Official Podcast Sponsor of IABC World Conference in Toronto June 14-16, 2026Click here to check it out https://wc.iabc.com Support the show

Send us a note about this episode. We'll reply and thank you on a future episodeYour client is wrong. You know it. They know it, somewhere underneath the certainty. And you have two choices. You can tell them they're wrong, which will end the conversation and cost you the relationship. Or you can find the thing they want more than being right and take them there instead.This is something most communications professionals learn the hard way and never quite put into words. Every difficult client, every resistant leader, every person digging into a position that will hurt them, they are not just wrong. They are running two competing motivations at the same time. The need to be right. And the need to succeed. And those two things are almost never the same thing. The PR professional who understands that distinction doesn't argue. They redirect. And the client ends up exactly where you needed them to go, convinced it was their idea all along.Listen For4:40 Can communicators actually motivate people to act?7:17 Is PR returning to behavioral science, or losing its way?8:55 What are system one, system two, and system three thinking?11:17 How do you challenge a client without losing trust?14:08 Will AI replace PR professionals or reveal who thinks strategically? Guest: Roger Hurni, Founder & Chief Brand Strategist, Off Madison AveWebsite | Agency | LinkedIn Outthink. Outperform. Transform Your Organization Through Behavioral Marketing DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestStories and Strategies is the Official Podcast Sponsor of IABC World Conference in Toronto June 14-16, 2026Click here to check it out https://wc.iabc.com Support the show

Send us a note about this episode. We'll reply and thank you on a future episode50 percent. That's how much of the global population now trusts generative AI when searching for information about companies and brands. More than Instagram. More than Facebook. More than social media in general. And that number climbed 7 points in a single year. The data comes from the Page Society's annual Harris Poll study. 14 countries, more than 15,000 people surveyed in December 2025. Consumers aren't just using AI more. They're believing it more. And most of them aren't clicking through to the source. They're reading the AI answer and moving on. For communicators, this changes the job. It's no longer enough to optimize for search engines, you now need to optimize for the AI that sits on top of them. What does generative AI say when someone types in your brand name? Is it accurate? Is it current? Or is it surfacing something you said or did 20 years ago that no longer represents who you are? Listen For3:26 How is declining consumer trust reshaping the role of communication leaders?4:52 Why do consumers now trust generative AI more than social media for brand information?12:28 What are the biggest risks of disinformation and AI hallucinations for brands?15:45 Why can't AI replace human experience and critical thinking in communications?20:22 How should brands optimize for AI search while maintaining trust and accuracy?Guest: Rochelle Ford, Ph.D., APR, CEO The Page SocietyLinkedIn | Website Page-Harris Poll: Confidence in Business Index 2026DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestStories and Strategies is the Official Podcast Sponsor of IABC World Conference in Toronto June 14-16, 2026Click here to check it out https://wc.iabc.com Support the show

Send us a note about this episode. We'll reply and thank you on a future episodeYour Organisation says it's aligned. It probably isn't.And the problem starts at the top.Zora Artis and Wayne Aspland have spent 7 years studying the gap between what leadership teams say they're doing and what's actually happening inside organizations. And their findings are uncomfortable. In their latest global study, drawing on interviews with 55 CEOs and senior executives across five continents, they found that leaders routinely leave strategy meetings carrying completely different understandings of the direction they just agreed on. Nobody admits it. And communications professionals get handed the impossible job of aligning everyone else around a strategy the leadership team hasn't genuinely aligned on themselves. In this episode, we break down why the gap has barely moved in seven years, what's actually driving it, and what communications professionals are uniquely positioned to do about it.  The full findings are being presented IABC World Conference 2026 in Toronto this June.Register https://wc.iabc.com/  Download the full Report and Infographic Summary here. Listen For4:11 What does true organizational alignment actually mean beyond agreement?7:44 Why do leaders think they're aligned but act differently after meetings?9:09 How do fear and ego silently destroy alignment in executive teams?12:18 What is “glass head syndrome” and why does it derail strategy execution?17:18 Is AI making organizational alignment better or worse?Guests:Zora ArtisWebsite Artis Advisory | Website Clear Leaders | Email | LinkedInWayne AsplandWebsite Clear Leaders | Email | LinkedIn DougSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestStories and Strategies is the Official Podcast Sponsor of IABC World Conference in Toronto June 14-16, 2026Click here to check it out https://wc.iabc.com Support the show

In this special National Volunteer Week episode of Girls with Grafts, we welcome Madeleine Carson, Director of Programs at Burns Recovered and our Volunteer of the Month. We talk about the power of community, connection, and supporting others.

Send us a note about this episode. We'll reply and thank you on a future episodeEvery comms professional knows the playbook. A crisis hits, you move fast. Holding statement, talking points, media plan, stakeholder map. You do it well because you've trained for it. You bring the plan to the CEO expecting alignment and instead you get a polite nod and silence. Not pushback. Not disagreement. Just silence. And that silence is worse than any argument because it means the CEO has already stopped listening. Not because your plan was bad, but because it was solving a problem they weren't thinking about.This is the gap that quietly erodes the comms function's credibility in organizations everywhere. Communicators are passionate people. That passion is their greatest asset, until it becomes a bias that pulls them toward issues that feel urgent but aren't connected to the core business. And when that happens enough times, the CEO doesn't fire you. They just stop inviting you into the room. Listen For3:09 How Do CEOs vs. Comms Leaders Actually Respond to Global Crises?4:26 When Should You Speak—and When Are You Giving an Issue Oxygen?6:28 Do PR Professionals Need Financial and Data Literacy to Be Strategic?11:44 Why Is Reporting Not Enough? And What Does Real Analysis Look Like?15:13 Can AI Truly Make Your Communications Strategy More Effective?Guest: Johna Burke, CEO and Global Managing Director, AMEC (International Association for the Measurement and Evaluation of Communication)Email | Website | LinkedIn DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestStories and Strategies is the Official Podcast Sponsor of IABC World Conference in Toronto June 14-16, 2026Click here to check it out https://wc.iabc.com Support the show

Send us a note about this episode. We'll reply and thank you on a future episodeEvery PR firm knows the drill. Client says here's my budget. Firm divides by twelve. Monthly retainer, same amount, January through December, whether the work demands it or not. Need a press release? Flat rate. Need ten? Multiply. Need an editor or a videographer? That's by the hour, and one minute is one hour. The pricing isn't creative. It isn't strategic. It's arithmetic dressed up as a business model.And it worked fine, until AI started doing the arithmetic faster. Suddenly teams are twice as productive in half the time, and if you're still selling hours, you're punishing yourself for getting better. Meanwhile, the client's procurement department is happy to keep paying by the hour, because now those hours cost less. So, who's really winning? The firms who don't rethink how they price will be replaced. Not by AI, but by hungrier competitors who already have.Listen For3:42 Why Are PR Firms the Least Creative in Pricing?6:34 Are You Losing Money by Defaulting to Retainers?9:08 How Should Agencies Identify Where They Create the Most Value?12:19 How Do You Avoid the “Bait and Switch” With Senior Talent?15:27 Is AI Killing Hourly Pricing Models for Good?Guest: Blair Enns, Win Without PitchingWebsite | LinkedIn | Podcast 2BobsDavid's books including Pricing Creativity DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestSupport the show

Send us Fan MailEpisode Summary: In this episode of the PIO podcast, Shel Holtz discusses the evolving landscape of organizational communication, emphasizing the importance of storytelling, measurable outcomes, and the integration of emerging technologies like AI. He highlights the unique challenges faced by government communicators, the necessity of crisis preparedness, and the role of internal communications in shaping organizational culture. Holtz also addresses the balance between automation and authenticity, the significance of building trust, and the strategic value of communication in achieving organizational goals.Shel's BIO: BIO:Shel Holtz is senior director of communications at Webcor, a commercial builder in California. He brings nearly 50 years of experience to the job in employee communications, corporate public relations, crisis communications, media relations, financial communications, investor relations, marketing communications, and compensation and benefits communications. Since the mid-1980s, Shel has been focused on the role that emerging digital technologies will play in organizational communication. He has been a thought leader on the application of email, the internet, the web, visual media, social media, chatbots, and other technologies to the practice of communication. Today, he is applying his critical eye to the use of Artificial Intelligence in communication. Before joining Webcor in 2017, he had consulted independently for more than 20 years as principal of Holtz Communication & Technology, working with organizations worldwide to employ technology in their communications. Earlier in his career, Shel was director of corporate communications for Allergan and Mattel, assignments that focused on internal communications, and he also spent time at two global human resources consulting firms in their internal communications practices. His first job in the field of organizational communication was with the energy company ARCO in Los Angeles, where he served as an internal communications representative. He has written six communication-themed books, including the internal communication primer, Corporate Conversations, and is co-host of the first and longest-running communication-focused podcast, “For Immediate Release,” which debuted in early January 2005. Shel has been a regular global speaker on topics related to internal communication and the application of online technology to strategic communication. He is a Fellow of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC), a Senior Fellow of the Conference Board's Marketing and Communication Center, and a Founding Research Fellow at the Team Flow Institute. He is a certified Strategic Communication Management Professional and an Accredited Business Communicator. He is currently a member of the Global Communication Certification Council and is set to become Vice Chair with automatic succession to Chair. Shel served six years on IABC's international executive board and is a five-time winner of IABC's Gold Quill award. Support the showOur premiere sponsor, Social News Desk, has an exclusive offer for PIO Podcast listeners. Head over to socialnewsdesk.com/pio to get three months free when a qualifying agency signs up.

Send us a note about this episode. We'll reply and thank you on a future episodeMost communicators assume that if people reject a message, they must not understand it. Lord David Evans argues the opposite. Backlash often isn't confusion. It's threat. When people feel insecure, unheard, or looked down on, they don't lean in. They shut down. And in that moment, facts don't persuade, values don't inspire, and “better messaging” can make things worse.In this episode Lord David Evans breaks down what political campaigning can teach PR professionals about trust, psychological safety, and why populist narratives spread so quickly. This isn't about copying tactics. It's about understanding what your audience needs before they will even give you permission to listen. Listen For2:22 Who is Lord David Evans and why does his perspective matter right now?3:54 Why is behaviour change almost never an information problem?6:36 Why do people get drawn to extreme political movements?10:36 Are politicians themselves fueling fear and insecurity?12:48 Is social media pushing people into fight-or-flight mode?Guest: Lord David EvansLinkedIn | Email  DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

Send us a note about this episode. We'll reply and thank you on a future episodePublic relations used to be seen as the function that shaped the message after the decisions were made. That is not enough anymore. In a world shaped by geopolitical shocks, cultural division, AI disruption, and rising reputational risk, communications leaders are being pulled closer to the centre of power. They are no longer just storytellers or spokespersons. They are becoming strategic sensemakers: the people expected to read the moment, interpret the pressure, and help leadership decide what to say, what to do, and sometimes whether to say anything at all. Our job is evolving to help brands survive the storm.If you work in PR, corporate affairs, or communications leadership, this episode will feel familiar fast, because it names the job as it is now, not as it used to be. And if you have not yet felt that shift in your own role, you will soon.  Listen For3:00 How Has the PR Professional Evolved into a Strategic Sense-Making Role?5:58 When Should CEOs Speak Out. And When Should They Stay Silent?10:23 What Is Strategic Ambiguity, and Why Are Companies Using It Now?13:09 What Skills Do Future PR Professionals Need to Succeed?15:01 How Do Communication Leaders Really Feel About AI?Guest: Tom Fife-Schaw, Uk Managing Director of Corporate Reputation, IpsosEmail | LinkedIn | Navigating Through Turbulence Report DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeStories and Strategies is the Official Podcast Sponsor of IABC World Conference in Toronto June 14-16, 2026Click here to check it out https://wc.iabc.com Support the show

Communications is often described as a female-led profession, but that label can hide a harder truth. Women may make up much of the industry, yet the balance often shifts when it comes to senior leadership, influence, and decision-making.So, what's still standing in the way, and why has progress been slower than it should be? Natasha Plowman argues gender equity cannot remain a women-only conversation, yet many men still hold back because they are afraid of saying the wrong thing, unsure how to contribute, or feel the issue is not theirs to address. In this episode, why silence protects the status quo. And change usually starts when more than the excluded group speaks up.Listen For2:33 Why Does a Female-Powered Industry Still Struggle to Put Women in Leadership?5:12 Why Are Men Reluctant to Join Gender Equity Conversations?7:24 What Does Real Allyship from Men in the Workplace Look Like?11:45 Is the Backlash Against DEI Actually About Performative Policies?14:21 Would Simply Adding More Women to Leadership Solve the Problem?Guest: Natasha PlowmanSpinning Red Website | Antiquoted Website | Email Break the Silence | Natasha LinkedInDougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

You know that feeling when you look at your own brand and it somehow doesn't feel like you anymore? The logo is the same, the words are mostly right, and the message is still “on brand”… but the visuals have started to wander. A new template here. A new font there. Someone's “quick” Canva edit. A LinkedIn graphic that looks like it came from a different company. None of it is a big mistake. It's just… a hundred small ones. And in PR, you can't afford that moment when a stakeholder sees your work and thinks, Wait—who are we today?Because we're living in a scrolling, skimming world where people decide in seconds. They don't stop to decode your intent; they feel something fast, or they move on. So how do you keep creativity alive without letting your brand drift into a different personality every week? And what actually makes a visual work now? What makes someone feel something immediately? Listen For:15 Why did Boaty McBoatface become the perfect lesson in brand control?3:17 What is visual drift and how does it quietly damage brand credibility?4:53 Why should brands resist changing logos and colors too often?6:14 How are Canva and easy design tools changing the role of visual experts?8:55 How do brands win attention in the first 0.3 seconds of scrolling?Guest: Stewart CohenWebsite | Email | Instagram | YouTube | LinkedIn | IDMB  DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

What if the best market research started by IGNORING what people say?What if, instead, you started modeling them based on proven behaviour?Right down to the regional level?And what if political polling was done this way too A new term is showing up in research and strategy circles with major implications for communicators: synthetic populations. This is not a cheap AI focus group. It is a data-built population model that reflects how people are distributed and behave at scale using high-quality inputs like official statistics, mobility patterns, and registration data, rather than relying only on interviews and surveys.That matters because self-reported data is often aspirational, incomplete, or socially filtered. Synthetic populations offer another path: estimating market potential, testing where campaigns should start, understanding regional differences, and pressure-testing assumptions before rollout. The real question is not just what synthetic populations are, but what happens when strategy shifts from asking people to modeling populations. Listen For3:07 What's the difference between a synthetic panel and a synthetic population?5:13 How can a synthetic population be realistic without using real individuals?8:49 Why do surveys over-claim luxury brands? And how does official data correct it?11:58 What did Germany's flat-rate transit ticket reveal about commuting by region?14:15 Could synthetic populations change how political polling is done?  Guest: Eike Hartmann, Vice President Custom Research & Insights Business at Statista+Website | LinkedInWhite Paper on Synthetic Populations DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

In today's world, PR leaders need to build and protect their brand's reputation in an AI-shaped, polarized world, where owned media matters more than ever. Reputation is no longer a soft metric but an economic multiplier and an insurance policy. From the difference between brand and reputation to the growing tension between character and competence, this episode explains what actually moves corporate standing up or down in today's environment.We also share why owned media now plays a disproportionate role in shaping not just earned coverage, but AI-generated search results and stakeholder perception. Listen For3:45 What Is the Real Difference Between Brand and Reputation?5:07 What Are the Seven Drivers That Shape Reputation?6:28 How Has AI Changed Third Party Advocacy and Media Influence?9:58 Do Character Crises Damage Reputation More Than Competence Failures?16:13 Why Is Reputation a Business Tool Rather Than Just an Image Strategy?Guest: Stephen Hahn-Griffiths, RepTrakWebsite | LinkedIn  DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

Trust used to flow upward. To experts, institutions, and authority. Then it shifted to “people like me.” Now even that circle is tightening. The 2026 Edelman Trust Barometer reveals a growing insularity: smaller tribes, hardened perspectives, and a widening mass-class divide driven by whether people believe the system works for them. Persuasion is shifting to trust brokerage, and what communicators, leaders, and businesses can do when trust itself has become the battleground.Listen For3:10 Skip the opening story and go right to the interview with Tim Weber3:47 What does it mean that we've moved from echo chambers to “turtle shells”7:21 Is polarization economic, cultural, technological—or all three?12:35 How can companies blunt fear and become true trust brokers?20:13 Will AI reinforce our biases and deepen our personal echo chambers?Guest: Tim Weber, Managing Director & EMEA Head of Editorial, EdelmanLinkedIn | Instagram | Bio | Website2026 Edelman Trust Barometer DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedInAre you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

In today's episode of 15:14, Kevin Carson, Executive Director of the Biblical Counseling Coalition, is joined by Jeff Christianson - pastor, leader, and Executive Director of the International Association of Biblical Counselors, also known as IABC, and a valued member of the BCC Council Board. Jeff brings decades of ministry experience, including pastoral leadership, radio broadcasting, counselor training, university professorship, and organizational leadership within the biblical counseling movement. In this conversation, we'll hear about Jeff's journey into biblical counseling, how the Lord used key influences and relationships to shape his path, and the mission and distinctives behind IABC's training and certification work. We'll also hear about cooperation and unity in biblical counseling, the importance of Scripture's sufficiency in soul care, and how churches can wisely develop counseling ministries in today's ministry landscape. Whether you're a pastor, counselor, or church leader, this conversation will encourage you and give you helpful perspective on the ongoing work of biblical counseling in the local church and beyond. You can reach Jeff at JeffChristianson@gmail.com. You can reach the International Association of Biblical Counselors (IABC) at www.iabc.net.   FROM OUR SPONSOR:  To learn more about an undergraduate degree in biblical counseling, go to BoyceCollege.com/1514. For more information on the Biblical Counseling and Master of Divinity degree in 60 months go to BoyceCollege.com/five. Support 15:14 – A Podcast of the Biblical Counseling Coalition today at biblicalcounselingcoalition.org/donate.

Can a joke really sell a brand? Or save it from sameness?Most campaigns sound the same because they're afraid to sound wrong. Safe language, serious faces, purpose-heavy messages that all blur together. And yet one of the most successful creative agencies in North America has built its reputation by doing the opposite. Zulu Alpha Kilo lives by a simple motto… Fight Sameness… and they do it with humor, sarcasm, and a willingness to say the quiet part out loud.Why does that work? Why does making people laugh end up being the fastest way to earn trust? Why does honesty often land better as a joke than a lecture. Listen For3:01 Fast-forward to the start of the interview5:19 Check out an example of a funny (sarcastic) ad by Zulu Alpha Kilo5:36 Why does ad satire feel so personal to marketers?9:11 What tiny detail annoyed people in that absurd ad? Guest: Michael Siegers, Zulu Alpha Kilo Website | InstagramDougSubstack | Website | LinkedIn FarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

You can be the same person across every channel. Your social media accounts. Your YouTube. Your newsletter. Your blog. The same principles. The same voice. Often even the same message. And many of the people following you on LinkedIn are the same people who see you on Instagram, hear you on a podcast, or read your newsletter. Yet those same people can understand you, trust you, and remember you very differently simply because they encounter you in a different place.Not because you changed.Because they did.They arrive with different expectations.Different attention.Different patience.The channel shapes what they notice, what they believe, and what stays with them, even when the words don't change at all. In this episode, we explore how platforms shape perception, why fractured identities are now the norm, and what that means for communicators who already know better but are running out of time and headspace.Listen For4:30 How do you tailor one piece of content for different platforms?6:04 Is it better to master one channel or be on many?7:49 Can AI help create content that still feels human?12:21 What's the right way to use emojis on LinkedIn?16:35 Are we choosing content or are algorithms choosing for us? Guest: Molly Demellier, Sounds ProfitableEmail | Website | Sounds Profitable LinkedInDougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

How Christ and His Word shaped my convictions and led me to IABC Jeff Christianson's Story with IABC — Why Christ and His Word Are Enough Many people know the International Association of Biblical Counselors (IABC), but fewer know the personal story behind how I came to love and serve this ministry. As the current Board President and Executive Director, I wanted to take a moment to share a bit of my journey — not to spotlight myself, but to invite a conversation with those who care deeply about Christ-centered, Scripture-sufficient soul care. My introduction to biblical counseling began in the mid-1990s during Bible college. I took an elective course called Counseling God's Way taught by Bob Hoekstra. That class immediately resonated with me because it wasn't counseling as the world defines it — it was discipleship. It was the Word of God applied to the heart, anchored in the sufficiency of Christ. From there, I was shaped by ministries like the Biblical Counseling Foundation and resources such as the Self-Confrontation Manual, which challenged me to examine my life in light of Scripture (2 Corinthians 13:5). Over time, I became familiar with the broader biblical counseling movement, including organizations like NANC (now ACBC), and I began to see distinct streams developing. What drew me toward IABC was its pastoral warmth, its local-church rootedness, and its unwavering commitment to the truth that Jesus Christ is the Wonderful Counselor (Isaiah 9:6) and that His Word is enough to equip God's people for life and godliness. This special podcast episode shares that story — how the Lord grew my convictions, clarified my calling, and led me into this lane of ministry. If you've ever wondered where IABC fits historically, or if you share a desire to "return to the Word," I invite you to listen and join the conversation. "Preach the word… fulfill your ministry." (2 Timothy 4:2–5)

You're using LinkedIn wrongNot because you're not smart… you are. It's because you're using yesterday's LinkedIn. The platform is changing fast. The feed has changed, and the rules for reach have changed with it. This episode shows you what's different now, and how to adapt without turning into a “content person.” Listen For3:29 What happens when you hit publish on LinkedIn?7:21 What makes a post perform well—and why does so much content flop?10:23 Should leaders be posting at all, and if so, how?14:49 Why did Alicia double down on LinkedIn as a career focus?20:42 Why are professionals afraid of being visible on LinkedIn?Guest: Alicia Teltz, The Hype DepartmentLinkedIn | Website  DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

When the streets erupt, the headlines explode, and public pressure hits boiling point… can business leaders still afford to say nothing?  In this episode tackle the growing tension between corporate responsibility and political risk. From a CEO letter in Minnesota addressing immigration-fueled violence to Keir Starmer's high-stakes diplomacy in China, we ask: when the world demands clarity, is strategic ambiguity still a safe PR move? Listen For2:08 What is safety in numbers for corporate protest5:03 Is strategic ambiguity a smart way to stay neutral7:12 What is the Business and Democracy Commission9:48 How do leaders speak when policy moves faster than people12:09 Can the UK and EU trade with China and India without angering the USThe Week Unspun is a weekly livestream every Friday at 10am ET/3pm BT. Check it out on our YouTube Channel or via this LinkedIn channelFolgate AdvisorsCurzon Public Relations WebsiteStories and Strategies WebsiteRequest a transcript of this livestream Support the show

Personal branding is changing in real time. The first impression is no longer a handshake or a conversation. It is a clip you did not choose, a post someone else shared, a comment you left, or a quote that gets passed around without context.What actually builds trust across today's platforms? It's the different channels and how they shape different versions of you. Consistency matters more than polish. Algorithms and AI search now “interpret” your reputation. Today you need to build a personal brand that holds up when you're not in the room. Listen For:22 What if people meet your story before they meet you?4:00 How does media reshape your message?5:23 How do you stay consistent across platforms?8:40 How do algorithms impact your brand?14:34 Why does personal branding really matter?Guest: Liz Brooks, Interview ValetWebsite DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney stood up in Davos and didn't waste words. He gave a speech that cut through the noise. The room stood. The world noticed. He said, “If you're not at the table, you're on the menu.” People replayed that line like it was a lifeline. This episode of The Week Unspun comes straight from the snowy peaks of Davos, but the questions are sharp and wide-reaching. Can speeches still move people to action? Can we trust the Edelman Trust Barometer, or has its credibility fractured like the world it measures? And as the World Economic Forum eyes cities like Detroit and Dublin, what happens when the name “Davos” no longer fits the map? Listen For:51 What made Mark Carney's Davos speech go viral?6:54 Why do some PR pros hate the Edelman Trust Barometer? 9:38 Are we living in a “retreater” era of trust and communication? 12:40 Should Davos be moved to Detroit or Dublin? 18:15 Is short-form, flashy content reshaping public opinion? The Week Unspun is a weekly livestream every Friday at 10am ET/3pm BT. Check it out on our YouTube Channel or via this LinkedIn channelFolgate AdvisorsCurzon Public Relations WebsiteStories and Strategies WebsiteRequest a transcript of this livestreamSupport the show

PR teams are being asked to win attention in a world that barely gives it. The problem is not reach. The problem is what happens after the click, after the view, after the impression. If your audience does not stay, nothing sticks. Not the message, not the trust, not the reputation you are trying to build.In this episode, we unpack why depth beats scale and why time spent is one of the most overlooked drivers of influence. You will hear a fresh way to think about loyalty, attention, and what it means to create content that people actually choose to come back to, even when the feed is endless.Listen For3:42 How do you separate scale from depth in brand storytelling?6:57 What makes podcast audiences stay or leave?10:20 How can stories compete for time in today's distracted world?12:42 Why does audio create such a deep connection with listeners?15:28 Who really listens to podcasts today? And how is that changing?20:03 Answer to Last Episode's Question from Guest Jenny ManchesterGuest: Roger Nairn, Jar Podcast SolutionsWebsite | Jar LinkedIn | Roger LinkedIn | YouTube Doug DownsSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzana BaduelSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

In this week's The Week UnSpun, the panel takes on three high-stakes stories where influence, identity, and global perception collide.  First, the team unpacks the latest flashpoint over Greenland, where the U.S. talks security, Denmark talks sovereignty, and Greenland quietly navigates the space in between. But is this really about narrative control, or something deeper, as David suggests, like the importance of alliances over authorship?  Then, the conversation turns to Minnesota, where deadly ICE encounters have sparked a communications crisis over trust, legitimacy, and who gets to define the truth.  Finally, the group turns to Davos, joined by 18-year World Economic Forum veteran Joanna Gordon, who lifts the curtain on how the global summit has evolved, and whether it still lives up to its founding ideals.  Listen For2:03 Can Greenland Strengthen Partnerships Without Losing Autonomy?3:25 Are Small Nations Heard? Or Just Spoken For?6:43 Is the Real Crisis in Minnesota About Trust?11:45 Has Davos Lost Its Way in the Age of Attention?15:41 Does the World Economic Forum Have a PR Problem?Guest: Joanna GordonLinkedInThe Week Unspun is a weekly livestream every Friday at 10am ET/3pm BT. Check it out on our YouTube Channel or via this LinkedIn channelFolgate AdvisorsCurzon Public Relations WebsiteStories and Strategies WebsiteRequest a transcript of this livestreamSupport the show

It doesn't matter whether you're 25 or 55. If you speak and people listen politely but not seriously, it hurts. Too young to be trusted.Too old to be creative.The message lands the same way. You are not seen. You are not heard. You are not valued.Ageism cuts in both directions and it leaves a quiet bruise that people carry long after the moment passes.How does this happen in Public Relations, a profession built on understanding people? It does. And ageism is a major component of the profession. That's why a Cultural Reset is needed. Listen For4:50 What does a "cultural reset" in PR mean when addressing ageism?7:30 How does ageism quietly impact training and promotion in PR agencies?9:54 Do certain sectors of PR treat older professionals more fairly than others?15:55 Will AI help or hurt age diversity in PR careers?17:25 Answer to Last Episode's Question from Guest Cindy Lang Guest: Jenny ManchesterCentre for Ageing Better Website | LinkedInJenny's Report An age-old problem: What can we do to tackle ageism in PR? Follow Farzana on SubstackFollow Doug on SubstackCurzon Substack Stories and Strategies WebsiteCurzon Public Relations WebsiteAre you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

A headline-grabbing raid, a revolution-in-the-making, and a “beige” prime minister walk into the attention economy… who wins the story?  Farzana and Doug unpack three global flashpoints through a PR and narrative-control lens: the shock capture of Venezuela's Nicolás Maduro and the split-screen battle between “law enforcement” framing versus “illegal act of war” backlash; Iran's surging unrest as the rial collapses alongside a fractured top-level message (empathy from President Pezeshkian, crackdown language from Ayatollah Khamenei, and a mobilizing call from exiled Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi); and the UK's debate over Keir Starmer's “beige” leadership, whether voters truly want competent quiet or charismatic spectacle in a 24/7 scroll-and-click media world.Listen For00:37 How did the Maduro raid become a communications battle overnight?01:33 Why did calling Maduro a “narco-terrorist” change the debate?04:57 Does winning the domestic narrative matter if the world disagrees?07:56 How is Iran's leadership sending mixed signals during unrest?13:05 Is quiet leadership still viable in today's attention economy?The Week Unspun is a weekly livestream every Friday at 10am ET/3pm BT. Check it out on our YouTube Channel or via this LinkedIn channelFolgate AdvisorsCurzon Public Relations WebsiteStories and Strategies WebsiteRequest a transcript of this livestream Support the show

This is a special audio time-jump episode. It's an immersive journey ten years into the future to explore how public relations has managed three of the biggest challenges: the rapid rise of AI, the disappearing entry-level job, and the ongoing gender gap in leadership.Doug and Farzana volunteer for a guided “time crossing” to see how the next generation of PR leaders navigated a decade of disruption. What they find isn't just smarter tech, it's smarter systems, layered cities, holographic hosts, and workplaces where AI and humans collaborate with clarity and conscience.This isn't an episode about how will we fix it, it's about how they already did… and what we can start implementing right now.Welcome to 2036 Listen For5:01 How has technology reshaped the world of PR?6:56 What does it feel like to communicate in a city designed to respond?9:57 How does personalized media target people in real time?10:36 What are holographic briefs and how do they change communication?16:31 Are women finally stepping into more leadership roles?17:44 How did society move beyond the culture war over being ‘woke'?12:59 What's changed most in how we communicate at work?14:55 What does it take to guide AI with real nuance?18:18 How is emotional labor being measured, and addressed, in the future?19:02 What are the future rules of ethical communication with AI? DougSubstack | Website | LinkedInFarzanaSubstack | Website | LinkedIn Are you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

What happens when protests shake a regime built on control, not consent? We look at Iran's largest wave of unrest since 2022. Fueled by economic collapse and skyrocketing inflation, the protests are no longer just about hardship, they've become openly anti-government, spreading even into rural areas. We break down Iran's unprecedented tone shift in crisis comms, explore the influential role of the Iranian diaspora, and consider how narratives are being shaped despite media restrictions. And we pivot to examine Donald Trump's striking effort to brand U.S. institutions with his name, followed by a look into 2026 with helpful resources for PR pros preparing for global risks. Listen For:47 What's really fueling Iran's latest wave of protests?4:28 How does Iran's diaspora influence global perception?5:39 Can Trump gain political advantage from Iran's instability?6:14 Why is Trump rebranding national institutions with his name?12:46 What tools can help PR pros prepare for global risks in 2026?The Week Unspun is a weekly livestream every Friday at 10am ET/3pm BT. Check it out on our YouTube Channel or via this LinkedIn channelFolgate AdvisorsCurzon Public Relations WebsiteStories and Strategies WebsiteRequest a transcript of this livestream  Support the show

Public relations shapes what people believe, how communities respond, and which ideas earn trust. It influences elections, corporate crises, government decisions, reputations, and public sentiment. Yet unlike medicine, law, or engineering, anyone can call themselves a PR professional. No license. No minimum standard. No consequences when things go wrong. What happens when a profession with this much power has almost no guardrails?Some say that freedom is essential for open societies. Others say it leaves the public exposed. What happens if we build those guardrails too strong? In this episode we walk the line of tension between protection and freedom.Listen For4:28 What problem is PR regulation really trying to solve?9:47 Does regulation protect the public, or just PR pros?12:38 Could PR regulation threaten free speech?14:23 Is there a middle ground on PR regulation?18:37 Can licensing and ethics training reshape PR?Rate this podcast with just one click Follow Farzana on SubstackFollow Doug on SubstackCurzon Substack Stories and Strategies WebsiteCurzon Public Relations WebsiteAre you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

This is not just one podcast. It's a feed with two.First is Stories and Strategies with Curzon Public Relations. A weekly show hosted by Doug Downs and Farzana Baduel. Every Tuesday, we tackle the real work of public relations. The strategy behind the stories. The decisions behind the headlines. No fluff. No profiles. Just the issues shaping modern communications.Also in this feed is The Week UnSpun. A live, weekly look at global news through a public relations lens. Hosted by Doug Downs, Farzana Baduel, and David Gallagher of Folgate Advisors. Streaming every Friday at 10 a.m. Eastern, 3 p.m. UK time. With the audio released later the same day.Two shows. One feed. Follow now, and stay ahead of the story.Support the show

What do you say when there's nothing to say?Most workplaces think they handle grief through policy, a few days of bereavement leave, a checklist, and a quiet expectation that people will return “ready” to work. But grief doesn't follow policy. It walks back into the office with someone long before they're prepared, reshaping their focus, their energy, their confidence and their sense of safety. And while HR manages the paperwork, it's the hallway conversations, the team dynamics, the awkward silences and the well-meaning but painful clichés that shape a grieving person's real experience. That isn't an HR problem. That's a communications problem.And yet almost no one prepares for it. Teams don't know what to say. Leaders fear saying the wrong thing. Colleagues avoid eye contact because they're anxious, not uncaring. In this episode, grief expert Cindy Lang shows why communication is the most powerful support any workplace can offer, and how simple, compassionate language can make the difference between someone feeling invisible and someone feeling understood.  Listen For4:11 Why Is Grief First a Communications Issue, Not Just HR's Job?6:45 What Is the “Three-C Model” for Grief-Informed Communication?8:05 How Does Grief Physically and Emotionally Impact a Person at Work?14:51 What Small Act of Kindness Made the Biggest Impact After Loss?19:29 Answer to Last Episode's Question from Marc WhittGuest: Cindy LangWebsite | Facebook | Instagram  Rate this podcast with just one click Follow Farzana on SubstackFollow Doug on SubstackCurzon Substack Stories and Strategies WebsiteCurzon Public Relations WebsiteAre you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

What happens when a top political strategist forgets the rules of media engagement?  This episode of The Week UnSpun strikes a nerve for PR professionals as Doug unpacks Susie Wiles' widely criticized Vanity Fair interviews, where a lack of structure, message control, and audience awareness turned rare access into a strategic failure. It's a masterclass in what not to do when the stakes are sky-high.  Then, the conversation pivots to a claim that's rippling through the industry in the UK. Sir Martin Sorrell declared on BBC Radio that PR no longer exists, prompting fierce pushback from Farzana. The team's defense of the industry is both impassioned and insightful, raising a critical question for anyone in communications. Is PR losing ground, or is it finally stepping into its own power?Listen For1:23 What went wrong in Susie Wiles' interviews?4:10 What are the 8 media mistakes she made?6:51 Is PR really dead, as Martin Sorrell claims?10:34 Why can't PR pros explain what they do?12:09 Is PR losing ground or evolving fast?The Week Unspun is a weekly livestream every Friday at 10am ET/3pm BT. Check it out on our YouTube Channel or via this LinkedIn channelFolgate AdvisorsCurzon Public Relations WebsiteStories and Strategies WebsiteRequest a transcript  Support the show

Nonprofits often describe themselves with a strange sense of pride: “We're the best kept secret.” But in an era where funding is shrinking, donor expectations are shifting, and public trust must be earned every single day, staying a secret is no longer a virtue. It's a liability. So why do so many NGOs still hide behind humility, overwhelm, or the hope that their good work will somehow speak for itself?It's same problem everywhere. Leaders who underestimate the power of strategic communication. Teams overwhelmed by tactical delivery. Fundraisers separated from PR staff. And organizations with extraordinary missions that remain invisible. In this episode, how nonprofits can step out of the shadows, communicate their value with confidence, and build the visibility they need to survive and serve.Listen For5:11 Why doesn't good work speak for itself anymore?10:12 How can NGOs attract top talent without top salaries?18:52 What are the first PR steps for nonprofits to grow visibility?21:04 Answer to Last Week's Question from Cindy LangGuest: Marc WhittWebsite | Email | LinkedIn | XRate this podcast with just one click Follow Farzana on SubstackFollow Doug on SubstackCurzon Substack Stories and Strategies WebsiteCurzon Public Relations WebsiteAre you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

Who's Really Writing the Stories That Shape Our World?This week, we dive into the high-stakes power play unfolding in Hollywood as Netflix and Paramount battle to take over Warner Bros. What looks like a blockbuster business deal is, in fact, a global struggle over who gets to shape the stories that define how we think, feel, and remember.Farzana explores the soft power implications of the deal, asking what happens when control of cultural narratives shifts to private or even foreign-backed hands. Doug examines the potential impact on creators, especially if Netflix, known for tight content licensing, wins control of vast historical archives. David brings in insider chatter from Hollywood, where some fear the deal could spell the end of cinema as we know it.Also in this episode, we unpack why the UK is launching a legal PR offensive to keep English law as the gold standard for global deals and how Singapore is emerging as a serious contender.Plus, is the US hurting its tourism brand with new visa requirements demanding access to social media history? And what can Australia's ban on under-16s using social media teach us about digital policy and parental reality? Listen For3:53 How would this merger reshape global storytelling and soft power?6:58 Why is the UK promoting English law as a global standard?10:12 What makes Singapore law a serious competitor to English law?15:39 Will new US visa rules scare away global travelers and harm tourism?The Week Unspun is a weekly livestream every Friday at 10am ET/3pm BT. Check it out on our YouTube Channel or via this LinkedIn channel Folgate AdvisorsCurzon Public Relations WebsiteStories and Strategies WebsiteRequest a transcript of this livestreamSupport the show

In every corner of the world the public mood is shifting, sometimes quietly and sometimes all at once. Climate anxiety, pandemic fears, economic pressure, geopolitical tension and a surge in concern about data security have all reshaped what people expect from companies. For organizations trying to build trust across borders the rules keep changing. What mattered in 2019 did not matter in 2021. What mattered last year may not matter next year. And unless communicators understand these shifts they will miss the signals that determine whether a message lands or falls flat.That is why this conversation with Steve Shepperson-Smith is so valuable. Drawing from Vodafone's 75,000+ annual reputation data points and RepTrak's million-strong global dataset, Stephen shares compelling insights on the critical 60/40 split between capability and character, and why the latter matters more than ever in polarized, politicized times.Listen For4:37 What does global data say about what drives reputation today?6:52 Have public views on social and environmental issues shifted?8:41 Are ESG and DEI labels now hurting more than helping?10:57 Why is data security now a top consumer concern?16:38 How can brands stay local in a divided global landscape?20:40 Answer to Last Episode's Question from Andy WestGuest: Steve Shepperson-Smith, VodaphoneLinkedInRate this podcast with just one click Follow Farzana on SubstackFollow Doug on SubstackCurzon Substack Stories and Strategies WebsiteCurzon Public Relations WebsiteAre you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

Most agencies can tell you how their clients are doing but ask how they are doing and the room gets quiet. The truth is that even the best run firms skip their own checkups. Margins thin out, teams burn out, and culture drifts while the spotlight stays fixed on the next pitch. But what if agencies treated their operations the way a doctor treats a patient, tracking vital signs, diagnosing problems early, and prescribing real solutions before things spiral.From hidden symptoms to running a full-scale agency fitness test, in this episode we look at what separates a healthy firm from one that just looks good on paper.  Listen For3:56 What vital signs show if your agency is healthy or just surviving?5:25 Are agency leaders really surprised by their own problems?8:57 Is AI a threat or a tool for agencies to grow?12:25 What four pillars make an agency profitable and strong?18:15 What aha moment helped an agency turn things around?20:03 Answer to Last Episode's Question from Lionel ZetterGuest: Andy West, West of CenterWebsite | Email | LinkedIn | X | Substack Rate this podcast with just one click Follow Farzana on SubstackFollow Doug on SubstackCurzon Substack Stories and Strategies WebsiteCurzon Public Relations WebsiteAre you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

This week, we look into the murky ethics of media leaks and their growing role in shaping political, corporate, and cultural narratives. From leaked peace plans that spark international diplomacy to budget details released minutes before parliamentary debate, we dissect whether leaks are ethical whistleblowing or manipulative PR tactics. Farzana argues that leaks often reveal broken internal cultures, while Doug, from a journalistic perspective, explores how leaks are used to test narratives and steer public perception. Also in this episode, David wonders if written reports are becoming relics in a world obsessed with video and visual storytelling.  And we ask: Can AI help restore strategic thinking in PR? And should public relations finally be regulated like other professions?  Watch/Listen For1:45 How will AI reshape PR, tactically or strategically?5:36 Should PR be regulated like law or finance?9:28 Are media leaks ethical, or just PR strategy?14:33 Can visual storytelling replace traditional comms?22:04 Are algorithms killing media access for everyone?The Week Unspun is a weekly livestream every Friday at 10am ET/3pm BT. Check it out on our YouTube Channel or via this LinkedIn channelFolgate AdvisorsCurzon Public Relations WebsiteStories and Strategies WebsiteRequest a transcript of this livestream Support the show

Trust isn't built in boardrooms or over Zoom. It's built in the quiet moments. A conversation that lingers, a promise kept, a drink shared between people who still believe words matter. In this episode, we explore how the foundations of influence have shifted from handshakes to hyperlinks, and what that means for anyone trying to shape opinion or policy in a world that's forgotten how to connect.You'll hear stories from inside the world of public affairs, where relationships once forged in the late hours of party conferences now play out on screens and social feeds. We unpack why the human side of persuasion still decides who gets heard, who gets trusted, and who gets left behind. Because in the end, every message, every movement, and every bit of influence still comes down to people.Listen For6:42 Can you build real relationships online?9:13 Is polarization killing cross-party lobbying?12:52 Are autocrats on the rise?15:00 How is public affairs different from stakeholder work?16:05 Answer to Last Episode's Question from Guest Nick UsborneGuest: Lionel ZetterWebsite | X | LinkedIn Lionel's new book The Lobbyist Rate this podcast with just one click Follow Farzana on SubstackFollow Doug on SubstackCurzon Substack Stories and Strategies WebsiteCurzon Public Relations WebsiteAre you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episode Support the show

What happens when PR meets scandal, tech chaos, and gender bias? This episode of The Week UnSpun is a whirlwind of explosive headlines. The trio of David Gallagher, Doug Downs, and guest host Miranda Mitchell look into the renewed Epstein files controversy and its potential to dominate headlines well into 2025. They unravel Cloudflare's swift crisis response and debate the alleged gender bias in LinkedIn's algorithm. Add a healthy dose of Cracker Barrel branding blunders and viral live-TV moments, and you've got a jam-packed show.Listen For2:03 What's coming with the Epstein files and who could be impacted?6:57 How could media coverage of the Epstein case harm innocent people?10:46 How did Cloudflare's apology turn disaster into a win?13:27 Does LinkedIn's algorithm favor male voices?18:47 Is AI helping or hurting your brand voice? Watch For2:10 What will the release of the Epstein files reveal, and who gets hurt?6:00 Should we worry about innocent people in raw investigative data dumps?13:21 Is LinkedIn's algorithm biased against women, and how do we know?20:02 Will AI kill or save PR agencies in the era of LLMs and brand drift?26:09 Did Cracker Barrel's rebrand backfire, and what's the PR lesson?Guest Host Miranda Mitchell, PretailWebsite | LinkedIn | ContactThe Week Unspun is a weekly livestream every Friday at 10am ET/3pm BT. Check it out on our YouTube Channel or via this LinkedIn channelWe publish the audio from these livestreams to the Stories and Strategies podcast feed every Friday until Sunday evening when it's no longer available.Folgate AdvisorsCurzon Public Relations WebsiteStories and Strategies WebsiteRequest a transcript of this livestreamSupport the show

AI can imitate your voice, your words, even your face, but it can't steal your story. What happens when companies hand their storytelling to machines that don't understand who they are? As businesses race to automate, they risk losing the very thing that makes them distinct: the human truth that built their brand.Listen For3:15 How are story, narrative, and voice different?7:00 What is brand drift and how does AI cause it?10:04 Why do people distrust AI-generated content?11:33 How does story protect brand identity?14:54 How can you fight disinformation about your brand?15:25 Answer to Last Episode's Question from Guest Jessica HopeGuest: Nick UsborneWebsite | Email | LinkedIn | Instagram | Link to Nick's CoursesFollow Farzana on SubstackFollow Doug on SubstackCurzon SubstackStories and Strategies WebsiteCurzon Public Relations WebsiteAre you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

Is the BBC losing its grip on journalistic credibility? Or is it being pushed?  This episode of The Week Unspun unpacks a chaotic week in media and politics with sharp insight from PR veterans Farzana Baduel, David Gallagher, Doug Downs, and special guest Adrian Monck. The BBC's controversial editing of a Donald Trump speech for Panorama sparks a fierce debate on ethics, institutional accountability, and media governance. From internal BBC politics to the broader implications for press freedom, the team dissects why this incident led to resignations at the highest levels.  The conversation then pivots to the political circus of the U.S. government shutdown and the erosion of trust in public institutions, before exploring the branding brilliance behind Dubai's appeal to wealthy expatriates fleeing taxation and uncertainty in the UK.  Audio Chapters4:06 Should One Edit lead to Top BBC resignations?13:49 Are Governments Held to the Same PR Standards as Corporations?17:45 Why are UK Tech Billionaires Fleeing to Dubai?20:58 Is the UAE Winning the Global Nation Branding Game?  Video Chapters2:02 What did the BBC really edit out of Trump's speech, and why does it matter?4:06 Should one error lead to top BBC resignations?13:49 Are governments held to the same PR standards as corporations?17:45 Why are UK tech billionaires fleeing to Dubai?20:58 Is the UAE winning the global nation branding game?Guest: Adrian MonckWikipedia | Website The Week Unspun is a weekly livestream every Friday at Noon ET/5pm BT. Check it out on our YouTube Channel or via this LinkedIn channel We publish the audio from these livestreams to the Stories and Strategies podcast feed every Friday until Sunday evening when it's no longer available. Folgate AdvisorsCurzon Public Relations WebsiteStories and Strategies WebsiteRequest a transcript of this livestreamSupport the show

In public relations, success often depends on one quiet skill: knowing how to adapt. The best communicators read the room, sense the temperature, and adjust their tone without losing their message. In this episode, we explore what it really means to be a PR chameleon – someone who can blend into the cultural landscape enough to connect, yet still stand out enough to be remembered. Jessica Hope, founder of Wimbart, has built one of Africa's most respected tech PR agencies by mastering that balance. From WhatsApp-based storytelling to navigating privilege, identity, and power across 54 distinct markets, Jessica reveals how empathy, adaptability, and emotional intelligence have become the true currencies of influence in global communications. Listen For4:36 How Do You Break the “One Africa” Myth in PR?7:40 What Is Emotional Intelligence in African Business?9:22 How Do Comms Channels Differ in Africa?12:06 Should Brands Adjust Their Values in Africa?16:26 What's Africa's Media Landscape Really Like?18:30 Answer to Last Episode's Question from Jo JamiesonGuest: Jessica Hope, WimbartWebsite | Contact Page | Email | LinkedIn | X | InstagramChimamanda Ngozi Adichie Ted Talk Farzana mentionedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9Ihs241zeg  Rate this podcast with just one click Follow Farzana on SubstackFollow Doug on SubstackCurzon SubstackStories and Strategies WebsiteCurzon Public Relations WebsiteAre you a brand with a podcast that needs support? Book a meeting with Doug Downs to talk about it.Apply to be a guest on the podcastConnect with usLinkedIn | X | Instagram | You Tube | Facebook | Threads | Bluesky | PinterestRequest a transcript of this episodeSupport the show

In this audience-driven “mailroom” episode of The Week Spun, the conversation opens with a provocative idea from the PRovoke Summit: AI is now being discussed in full-time equivalent (FTE) terms, signaling a shift in how agencies and organizations think about synthetic labor. Guest host Kim Sample, President of the PR Council, joins Doug Downs and David Gallagher to explore what this means for the future of work in PR.From there, the trio digs into listener-submitted questions on everything from Apple's conspicuous silence in the podcasting space, to why PR professionals struggle with personal branding, how fairness is driving consumer outrage, gender representation in politics, and the surprising TikTok-fueled backlash to a Halloween ad campaign from Hatch Sleep.Audio Episode Chapters 1:51 What is a “synthetic FTE” and how is AI reshaping PR teams 4:29 Are brands finally taking owned content like blogs and podcasts seriously 8:11 Does Apple still care about podcasts or is their silence a statement 13:05 Why do PR pros struggle with confidence and self promotion 21:03 Does visibility for women in politics actually equal shared power Video Episode Chapters1:54 What is a “Synthetic FTE” and How Will AI Change PR Teams? 5:16 Are Brands Finally Getting Serious About Owned Media and Podcasts? 10:51 Does Apple Still Care About Podcast? Or Are They Quietly Quitting? 13:15 Why Do PR Pros Struggle With Their Own Personal Branding? 26:14 Does Representation Equal Power in Politic? Or Just PR Optics? Guest Kim Sample, PR CouncilWebsite | Email | LinkedInThe Week Unspun is a weekly livestream every Friday at 10am ET/3pm BT. Check it out on our YouTube Channel or via this LinkedIn channelWe publish the audio from these livestreams to the Stories and Strategies podcast feed every Friday until Sunday evening when it's no longer available.Folgate AdvisorsCurzon Public Relations WebsiteStories and Strategies WebsiteRequest a transcript of this livestreamSupport the show

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss a Reddit post about an agency leader going MIA and the repercussions for the team. They elaborate on the importance of communication, perception, and flexibility for agency owners. The conversation includes personal anecdotes from both hosts, highlighting the need for frequent touchpoints, setting clear expectations, and maintaining a balance between taking personal time and being present for the team. They also stress the significance of transparency during challenging times and the benefits of empowering employees to reduce bottlenecks. Key takeaways Gini Dietrich: “As an owner, I think that you absolutely should be taking time to do things that you’re passionate about. But not at the expense of the business, or of your employees.” Chip Griffin: “If it’s industry events that are causing you to be absent, make sure that the team understands why and how that fits into the bigger picture.” Gini Dietrich: “If you’re consistently having weekly one-to-one meetings, if you’re consistently communicating with them, these things will be mitigated just by the mere fact that you’re talking to your team.” Chip Griffin: “And just as important as talking with your team, you’ve got to listen to them.” Related Weekly 1:1 meetings make a big difference for your agency Building trust and letting your team shine View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. What is happening? Chip Griffin: That effect really only works if you’re watching this. Gini Dietrich: I don’t know what just happened. Chip Griffin: I, I slid off screen. I went MIA. Gini Dietrich: Oh my gosh. So I don’t even, that was, that was, I think, the best, the best intro we’ve ever had. You just left the screen. And even though I knew what the topic was, I was like, what is happening right now? Chip Griffin: So it’s just, it’s my way of encouraging listeners to become viewers because. It just, it completely loses the impact of, if you only listened to that portion of it. I, I don’t know how much impact you have, but from watching it either, but, you know, at least it’s, at least you understand what’s going on. Gini Dietrich: He literally just left the screen. Chip Griffin: I left the screen. But no, we are, we are, we were inspired by a Reddit post and we haven’t gone to the Reddit well for quite some time. Gini Dietrich: We haven’t, no. Yeah. Chip Griffin: So we decided to go back to Reddit and see what people were talking about. And so there is a relatively recent thread there where an agency employee says the principle of their firm has gone completely MIA, leaving them to do all of the work and feeling abandoned by the owner. That seems like a worthy topic to be discussing. Gini Dietrich: I feel like the answer is don’t. Don’t do that. Don’t ghost your business or your employees. Chip Griffin: Don’t ghost your business. And here we go, we’re done. Thanks for listening. Gini Dietrich: The end. Don’t do that. Chip Griffin: No, but I, I think it’s, it is, as owners, we sometimes overlook how our actions can be perceived by those who work for us. So it’s, it’s not necessarily being completely MIA, which obviously we would discourage. But your general availability, for example, can play into your team’s perceptions or your client’s perceptions of what your business is like. Absolutely, and we all, we certainly encourage owners to take all of the, the freedom that comes with being a business owner, don’t just take on all of the risk and stress. And so you need to have flexibility. And you shouldn’t feel compelled to, to necessarily, you know, work 9 to 5 every day exactly. You should absolutely build some flexibility in to what you do because that is honestly one of the perks of being an owner. and absolutely, increasingly a perk of being an employee these days. But, you know, that’s a conversation for a separate day. You know, so, but we also have to be mindful of how this can be perceived, particularly by our team members, but also our clients. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I think you, you’re absolutely right, like taking advantage of the flexibility that you can build in for yourself is one of those things. And I think there are lots of agency owners who do things like maybe they’re giving back to the industry by teaching, or perhaps they’re volunteering for PRSA or IABC or one of those, right? Or, you know, doing something like that that may be tangentially related to what we do, but not taking, taking you away from the business. And I think that those are things are good. I think that you absolutely, those are things that you’re passionate about, that you should absolutely be doing those things. But not at the expense of the business or, or of your employees. Because if, if your employees are feeling like they’re running the agency and they can’t get you to make decisions or to have one-to-ones or be present, that’s a problem. Chip Griffin: Yeah. And look, I mean, this is something that I have struggled with a lot over the years. Not because I just go off and sit in the mountains and, you know, hike and relax and all that kind of stuff. It’s, it’s because I’ve often been running more than one business. Mm-hmm. And so, inevitably one of them will typically get busier than another. And so those involved in the ones that are less busy at the moment may feel abandoned at times, by me. And so I, it’s something I’ve had to be particularly aware of and making sure that, that I’m safeguarding against being too absent from a particular business. Sometimes you’ve got a business in, in my case, I would’ve, businesses that were running really well and smoothly and the team was executing and so I didn’t feel like I needed to be there. But the perception can be very different from the team side, right? Where they feel like, well, why are you ignoring us? Right? And the answer might be, because you’re doing such a great job, I don’t really need, I don’t need, yeah. To be there and I’m not adding the value. But unless you’re communicating that to them, they don’t know that. So I think there’s, there’s two things you need to be mindful of here. One is the perception, and two is your communication strategy around what you’re doing. If it’s industry events and things like that that are causing you to be absent, make sure that the team understands why and how that fits into the, the bigger picture. Because that makes it easier for them to understand and less likely for them to think, oh, well, Chip’s just on another junket. Here he goes, you know, he, he’s off to San Diego or Miami and you know, it’s the middle of the winter. Of course he is. Why not? And, and, those are things that are, that are important to factor in because it can have a meaningful impact on your team’s performance. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I was on book tour both times, I was absent from the business every week. I mean, one, I think 2014 I traveled 50 weeks out of the year. So it was extremely hard for me to be on book tour and speaking and business development while also running the business. And my employees. I am fairly confident, felt the, felt the brunt of that. And I don’t think I probably handled it the best way either. I probably shouldn’t have taken on that much travel. It helped the business grow significantly for sure, because I was also doing business development as part of it, but they definitely felt abandoned in that they were running the agency in my absence. And that I was just off traveling the world and having a great time and Right. That was their perception. Right. So I think you do, I think communicating that is right and there are certain things that you still have to do. Like I should have, continued with one-to-ones. And because I was traveling and I was speaking and all that, I just sort of let those slide. I should have continued with all team meetings at least biweekly, if not weekly. So I, I let those things slide because I was traveling and I was exhausted and you know, in many cases I was around the world and so time zones were, were crappy too. But I think that’s right. I think that’s the right approach is that you still have to do certain things. If, if you’re quote unquote, abandoning your agency because you’re doing something else that may or may not be helpful for the agency, or be because you want you, you’re taking advantage of flexibility, which is fine too. Communicate that, but also continue sort of the process things like one-to-one, right, so that people feel like you’re still involved. Chip Griffin: Yeah. I think that’s key is, is putting in that bit of additional effort to show some sense of normalcy to the rest of the team when you’re, you’re doing those kinds of things. And you know, I suspect that if, if we talked to the owner of, of this person’s agency, they probably wouldn’t describe themselves as MIA. They would probably describe themselves as busy with a variety of different things, some of which may be beneficial to the agency directly or indirectly or, or what have you. Or, or they may say, as I did, You’ve got this, I don’t need to be there. Mm-hmm. But making sure that you have those regular touch points with your team can certainly help. I think the other thing to keep in mind is that, and we’ve talked about this before, is that you do have to lead by example. And that means also understanding how the example you are setting is received by your team. So for example, if part of your perception of being MIA is that, that you disappear a couple afternoons a week for your kids’ sporting events. If you are not enabling your team to do that, maybe not with the same frequency, but at least periodically. That can lead to a real disconnect because why is it okay for you and not for me? And look, there, there are certainly things that are okay for the owner to do and not for employees to do. Yes, yes. But the more of those things that happen, the more frequently with which they happen, the larger the gap is between what you can do and what your team can do, the more it tends to underscore things. And, and so you do need to be mindful of that perception because your team will often magnify things beyond what you even realize. And that can then lead to morale issues and, and other things that, that can crop up. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I think that’s right. You know, I, am most productive really early in the morning. My brain is really fresh and works really well creatively in the morning. So I get up and I work early in the morning just on the, like, the stuff that takes thinking and deep thought, deep work kinds of things. Then I, you know, do the kid thing and I get school off, get ’em off to school and all that, and then I come home and I work out. So. I am at my desk really early, but then not again until 9:30 or 10. And for a while there people didn’t think that was fair. And I was like, okay, well I’ll see you at 4:30 in the morning then. Right, right, right. But what I discovered that after I got over my smart assness. Is that really giving them the opportunity to do those things throughout the day. As long as their work gets done and they’re meeting deadlines and you know, all of the things that matter, and clients aren’t requesting their time, then that’s fine. So I have one person who leaves at 1:50 every day. He goes to the gym at 2, he’s back by 3:15. Okay. That’s totally fine, because he’s doing his job, he’s getting his work done. So giving them the same level of flexibility that you feel comfortable with, I think is an important thing to be able to do as well, because then they don’t feel like you’re getting all this, these advantages and they’re not. Chip Griffin: Right. And I, and I think that it’s important to, to factor these things even more during tough times for your agency. So, you know, if, if the, the business is struggling and so you’ve, you know, maybe you’ve cut back on resources in order to, to save expense. And so maybe you’re asking your team to do a little bit more. That’s the wrong time for you to be perceived to be doing a bit less. Gini Dietrich: Right, right. Chip Griffin: Or, or immediately after layoffs. You know, you show up with a brand new Ferrari or something like that, Gini Dietrich: perhaps Chip Griffin: a bit tone deaf. And, and again, it, it doesn’t necessarily mean that, you know, if you’ve gone through tough times, or are going through tough times as an agency that. That you, you know, you have to, you know, appear to be a pauper. That is not, that is not what I’m telling you. However, you do need to, to understand what the perception will be if you all of a sudden go on a two week vacation to the Alps while you’re taking away resources from your team and making them work, you know, 50, 60 hours a week just to make ends meet within the business. And, and those are not the kinds of things that you wanna do because it does make it appear as if you have abandoned, not necessarily the business, but at least the team members. And that is not how you get the best performance. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I think the tone deafness and the, the perception piece of this is extraordinarily important. So I, we have a client who about two years ago had to lay off… It was about 35% of their team. And right before they did it, their CEO went on a three week European cruise, all around Europe was gone for three weeks and then he came home and did this. And I remember saying to him, this is a bad idea. Let’s either do it before you go. Or let’s wait a month or six weeks after you get back, like right after you get back is a bad idea. He did not listen, he did it as soon as he got back. He didn’t wanna do it before and he couldn’t wait, and so he did it as soon as he got back and there was one person who, let’s just say rightfully so threw that in his face when he let him go, and then they ended up suing. And I don’t know, it’s, you know, I don’t know if that that person will win that, that suit lawsuit, but you’re still having to go through the process of being sued and, you know, having to provide documentation and things like that. And, you know, he could still take the vacation, he could still take the three week cruise. Sure. Right. But the, the timing of it is what was a problem. And so I think we have to really think about that. I think we have to think about, you know, what kind of car we drive and, you know, if people know what kind of home we live in. And, you know, certainly we have those advantages because we own the company. But at the same time, there are things that people perceive, rightly or wrongly about how you’re running the business and how they’re being treated when, when they have that kind of information about you. Chip Griffin: Right. And it’s, it’s not about, you know, living your, your life differently necessarily, right? Because of these things. It’s, it’s, it’s the awareness of them, right? And trying to figure out, you know, how to, how to either communicate around it or make other decisions that, that don’t make it worse at least. And, and preferably even mitigate it to some degree. And, and this is obviously not the topic for today’s show, but you know, whenever you’ve got bad news for your team, don’t sit on it. Gini Dietrich: Right. Chip Griffin: I mean, you, you, you’ve gotta get it out there because people will find out, and, and the sooner that people have bad news, the easier it is for them to make a course correction because of it. And, and the more that you sit on it, if you know that you’re going to have to lay somebody off, just get it done right. Just get it done Gini Dietrich: right. Chip Griffin: Anytime you’ve got bad news, it, it, it stresses you out. It stresses them out. If they find out that you knew it a month ago, two months ago and didn’t tell them so. Just rip that bandaid off and, and move ahead with it. But again, not, not really the topic for today’s conversation, but I, I feel remiss if I don’t make that point. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I think you’re right. I mean, it’s, it goes to your point earlier, right? Which is communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate. And if you’re having consistent touch bases, you know, you and I both, both believe in weekly one-to-ones. If you’re consistently doing that, if you’re consistently communicating with them, these things will be mitigated just by the fact, the mere fact that you’re talking to your team. So ensure that you’re doing those things even while you’re doing some of the other things that you might be passionate about or, you know. Have, are enjoying the flexibility with, because that’s the right thing. You know, some people to your point, want to be at their kids’ events and you know, school is not made for working parents. So sometimes that means 2:45 to 5 is they’re gone. Right. You also don’t see them working late into the night or early in the morning because you’re not at your desk at that time. So you have to understand there are things that, that those owners are going to do to, to quote unquote, make up the time where maybe our employees don’t see that. So communicate, just talk to them, tell them what’s going on. Chip Griffin: Yep. Yeah. And, and it’s, you know, just as important it’s to, to talk with ’em. You’ve got to listen to them. Right? Right. Because again, to my point that this owner probably would not describe themselves as MIA, you need to be, you know, tuned into your team so that you can pick up on perhaps that’s the perception. So if, if you finding that they’re saying, Hey, you know, I, I’m not getting the answers I need, or I’m not getting the information I need, or when do you think you might actually be around for this? Or, you know, kind of listen to some of those things and particularly the tone of some of those things and, and key into them so that you can spot some of these issues before they really become major problems for you to deal with. Because if, if you can sense from these conversations and through the listening that there are things that need to be addressed, you can take care of it a lot easier now than you can six months down the road when it reaches a boiling point. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s, that’s the exact correct thing to do. And you know, I think if your employees are feeling like they’ve been ghosted or abandoned, that’s, that is definitely a you issue. And that needs to be solved pretty fast. Chip Griffin: Yeah. And you, and you’ve gotta encourage the team to open up to you as much as possible. Sure. I mean, you do sign the paycheck, so you’ve gotta be realistic about how much candid feedback and such you’ll get. But one of the things that, that I have always encouraged my team members to do is to, to feel free to beat me about the head and shoulders if I’m not getting them what they need in a timely enough fashion. And do I believe that they will consistently do that? No. The vast majority of the employees I’ve had haven’t done that consistently, but they know it’s an option to them, so they do tap into that. As and when needed. I’ve had a handful of employees who are actually really good about it, and by really good, I mean, really kind of annoying about it because like the minute I was a minute late in getting them the feedback that I had promised, I, you know, get the, the knock on my, my office door. Hey, you know, I, I need this. But frankly, that was helpful, right? It, it, at least it was, it was direct. It got them what they needed and, and so you need to be listening for those cues so that you can spot them and, and hopefully try to improve your own behavior in that going forward. Whether that’s by setting different expectations of the timeliness with which you can get to it because you’re traveling, because you’ve got these other commitments or whatever. Or simply by, you know, being a little bit quicker to turn those things around. Gini Dietrich: Yes. That is one of the most, I think that’s one of the most challenging things is that piece of it is being the bottleneck on, on certain kinds of things. So. Figuring out ways to communicate that effectively. And sometimes you promise something, like, I could promise something to you by Wednesday, but I don’t know, based on what my schedule is right at this moment. Right, right. But there’s gonna be client things that come up. There are gonna be HR issues that come up that I am not at all expecting, and all of a sudden my whole week is thrown into chaos where there’s no physically possible way I can now get it to you by Wednesday because of all this other stuff and some of that I can’t communicate to the employee. Right? Right. So I just have to say like, some things came up. I’m really sorry. Can I get an extra 48 hours? Or whatever it happens to be. Right? So I think those are the kinds of conversations we have to be really understanding about, because the perception is that you’re just ignoring them and you’re sitting at your desk drinking wine and painting your toenails. Chip Griffin: Yeah, I stopped painting my toenails a few years ago. But anyway, so, you know, but I think that along those lines, I think it’s, it’s important for you, excuse me, to, to be clear about what you actually need to be a bottleneck on. And so sometimes this can be a useful exercise to say, do I really need to, to review and approve this? Do I really need to edit this? If not, maybe that’s something that you can pass off. And so maybe the way that you solve some of those things is by passing it along and saying, you’ve got the authority to handle this now. I completely trust you on this. I don’t need to see this. You take it, you run with it. And, and I’ve often used those situations where I’m becoming an increasing bottleneck to try to figure out how do we change the process. So that I’m not. Either by involving me at a different stage or just taking me out of it altogether. Yep. Because, and that’s particularly true when I would find things where I was consistently just saying, yep, this is good. Yep, this is good. And, and I, and I didn’t feel the need any longer to keep going through that. And so you need to find those things, but also communicate why you are taking yourself outta that process. Because if you just take yourself out of it. That’s where you look like you’re going MIA. Right? If you say, look, I completely trust your judgment you’re doing, I don’t need to see this and you should usually include the caveat unless you want me to look at something, right? Because sometimes someone just feels more confident about, maybe there’s something they’re putting out and they just, they want your set of eyes on it. They just, they want that perspective. Sure. Don’t discourage them from doing that, but let them know that on a routine basis, that’s not necessary. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I think that’s really important too. So I think there are a few good takeaways from this, that this is not necessarily the, the topic of the day, but you know, breaking up that bottleneck, ensuring that your team is, is you’re consistently running the business from like a process perspective. I think that’s really smart. Communicating effectively is really smart. There was one other that you said our top, the podcast wasn’t about that I thought was really good. Shoot. Chip Griffin: Well, the beauty is people have the recording you, you can just hit rewind, go backwards. They can look at the transcript that Jen puts up on the website. I do that sometimes as well just to see what I said. Right. Figure, figure out, you know, so I’m consistent ish in my advice that I give. So, but in any case. Hopefully you have some, some things that you can use as tools so that you’re not perceived as MIA or if you have to be MIA. How to communicate more effectively and work with your team on it. And lots of bonus tips in here as well, because we just can’t help ourselves and we’ll follow whatever path we might find we do over the course of the conversation, at least after I come back on camera and on work so that I can participate. So with that, I’m gonna go, I guess I’m not MIA because you know that we’re wrapping up and so it will make sense when I leave at the end of this. But I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And it depends.

This episode of 15:14 features Dr. Kevin Carson, who will begin serving as the Executive Director of the BCC in 2026. Dr. Carson is the Pastor of Sonrise Baptist Church in Ozark, Missouri, and has been teaching biblical counseling in various seminaries since 1999. He also serves as a counselor at Sonrise Biblical Counseling Ministry, is certified by both ACBC and IABC, and serves on the IABC board. In addition, he is an author and a frequent speaker at conferences, retreats, and seminars. Dr. Carson and his wife, Kelly, have four children, one son-in-law, and two grandsons. A BCC Council member since its inception, he shares in this conversation how he came into his new role and what he looks forward to as he leads the BCC.   FROM OUR SPONSOR:  To learn more about an undergraduate degree in biblical counseling, go to BoyceCollege.com/1514. For more information on the Biblical Counseling and Master of Divinity degree in 60 months go to BoyceCollege.com/five.   ONE WORD ONE WORLD CONFERENCE 2025: To learn more and register for the One Word One World Conference presented by the Biblical Counseling Coalition go to: bccglobalsummit.org. Support 15:14 – A Podcast of the Biblical Counseling Coalition today at biblicalcounselingcoalition.org/donate.