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What do lizards have to do with product growth? In this episode, Gojko Adzic reveals how unusual user behaviors can unlock massive opportunities for product innovation. Discover the four steps to mastering "Lizard Optimization" and learn how you can turn strange user actions into game-changing insights. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, host Brian Milner chats with Gojko Adzic about his new book, Lizard Optimization. Gojko explains the concept of finding product growth signals in strange user behaviors, sharing examples where unexpected user actions led to product breakthroughs. He outlines a four-step process for optimizing products by learning, zeroing in, removing obstacles, and double-checking. Gojko also discusses helpful tools like session recorders and observability tools that can enhance product development by uncovering and addressing unique user behaviors. References and resources mentioned in the show: Gojko Adzic 50% OFF Lizard Optimization by Gojko Adzic Mismatch: How Inclusion Shapes Design by Kat Holmes Trustworthy Online Experiments by Ron Kohavi Advanced Certified Scrum Product Owner® Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Join the Agile Mentors Community Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Gojko Adzic is an award-winning software consultant and author, specializing in agile and lean quality improvement, with expertise in impact mapping, agile testing, and behavior-driven development. A frequent speaker at global software conferences, Gojko is also a co-creator of MindMup and Narakeet, and has helped companies worldwide enhance their software delivery, from large financial institutions to innovative startups. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors. We're back for another episode of the Agile Mentors podcast. I'm with you as always, Brian Milner. And today, very special guest we have with us. have Mr. Goiko Atshich with us. I hope I said that correctly. Did I say it correctly? Close enough. Okay. Well, welcome in, Goiko. Glad to have you here. Gojko (00:15) Close enough, close enough. Brian (00:21) Very, very, very happy to have Goiko with us. If you're not familiar with Goiko's name, you probably are familiar with some of his work. One of the things I was telling him that we teach in our advanced product owner class every time is impact mapping, which is a tool that Goiko has written about and kind of come up with on his own as well. Gojko (00:21) Thank you very much for inviting me. Brian (00:47) But today we're having him on because he has a new book coming out called Lizard Optimization, Unlock Product Growth by Engaging Long Tail Users. And I really wanted to talk to him about that and help him explain, have him explain to us a little bit about this idea, this new concept that his new book is about. So, Goiko, let's talk about it. Lizard Optimization, in a nutshell, what do you mean by that? What is it? Gojko (01:14) We're going to jump into that, but I just need to correct one of the things you said. I think it's very, very important. You said I came up with impact mapping and I didn't. I just wrote a popular book about that. And it's very important to credit people who actually came up with that. It's kind of the in -use design agency in Sweden. And I think, you know, they should get the credit for it. I literally just wrote a popular book. Brian (01:19) Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha, gotcha. Apologies for that incorrect. Thank you for making that correction. So lizard optimization. Gojko (01:44) So, lizard optimization. Good. So, lizard optimization is an idea to find signals for product ideas and product development ideas in strange user behaviors. When you meet somebody who does something you completely do not understand, why on earth somebody would do something like that? Brian (02:03) Okay. Gojko (02:11) and it looks like it's not done by humans, it looks like it's done by somebody who follows their own lizard logic, using stuff like that as signals to improve our products. Not just for lizards, but for everybody. So the idea came from a very explosive growth phase for one of the products I'm working on, where it... had lots of people doing crazy things I could never figure out why they were doing it. For example, one of the things the tool does is it helps people create videos from PowerPoints. You put some kind of your voiceover in the speaker notes, the tool creates a video by using text to speech engines to create voiceover from the speaker notes, aligns everything and it's all kind of for you. People kept creating blank videos and paying me for this. I was thinking about why on earth would somebody be creating blank videos and it must be a bug and if it's a bug then they want their money back and they'll complain. So I chased up a few of these people and I tried to kind of understand what's going on because I originally thought we have a bug in the development pipeline for the videos. So... I started asking like, you know, I'm using some, I don't know, Google slides or, you know, keynote or whatever to produce PowerPoints. Maybe there's a bug how we read that. And the person, no, no, we, know, official Microsoft PowerPoint. They said, well, can you please open the PowerPoint you uploaded? Do you see anything on the slides when you open it? And the person, no, it's blank. Right? Okay, so it's blank for you as well. I said, yeah. So. Brian (03:48) Yeah. Gojko (03:54) What's going on? so what I've done is through UX interviews and iterating with users and research, we've made it very, very easy to do advanced configuration on text -to -speech. And it was so much easier than the alternative things that people were creating blank PowerPoints just to use the text -to -speech engines so they can then extract the audio track from it. Brian (03:54) Yeah, why? Gojko (04:23) and then use that and it was this whole mess of obstacles I was putting in front of people to get the good audio. It wasn't the original intention of the tool. It wasn't the original value, but people were getting unintended value from it. And then I ended up building just a very simple screen for people to upload the Word document instead of PowerPoints. And it was much faster for users to do that. A month later, there was many audio files being built as videos. Two months later, audio... production overtook video production. then at the moment, people are building many, many more audio files than video files on the platform. So it was an incredible growth because of this kind of crazy insight of what people were doing. kind of usually, at least kind of in the products I worked on before, when you have somebody abusing the product, product management fight against it. There's a wonderful story about this in... Founders at work a book by Jessica Livingston and she talks about this kind of group of super smart people in late 90s who Came up with a very very efficient Cryptography algorithm and a way to compute the cryptography so they can run it on low -power devices like Paul pilots Paul pilots were you know like mobile phones, but in late 90s and Then they had to figure out, how do we monetize this? Why would anybody want to do this? So they came up with the idea to do money transfer pumping, Palm pilots, you know, why not? And kind of the built a website. This was the late nineties as a way of just demoing this software to people who didn't have a Palm pilot device next to them. The idea was that you'd kind of see it on the website, learn about it, then maybe download the Palm pilot app and use it in anger. People kept just using the website, they're not downloading the Palm Pilot app. So the product management really wasn't happy. And they were trying to push people from the website to the Palm Pilot app. were trying to, they were fighting against people using this for money transfer on the web and even prohibiting them from using the logo and advertising it. They had this whole thing where nobody could explain why users were using the website because it was a demo thing. It was not finished. It was not sexy. It was just silly. And Jessica kind of talks to one of these people who insists that it was totally inexplicable. Nobody could understand it. But then a bit later, they realized that the website had one and half million users and that the Pongpilot app had 12 ,000 users. So they kind of decided, well, that's where the product is really. And that's like today, people know them as PayPal. They're one of the biggest payment processes in the world because kind of, you know, they realized this is where the product is going. And I think in many, many companies, people Brian (07:03) Ha ha. Gojko (07:18) stumble upon these things as happy accidents. And I think there's a lot more to it. We can deliberately optimize products by looking for unintended usage and not fighting it, just not fighting it. just understand this is what people are getting as value. And I think for me as a solo product founder and developer and product manager on it, One of the really interesting things is when you have somebody engaging with your product in an unexpected way, most of the difficult work for that user is already done. That person knows about you, they're on your website or they're using your product, the marketing and acquisition work is done. But something's preventing them from achieving their goals or they're achieving some value that you did not really know that they're going to achieve. you know, that's something the product can do to help them and remove these obstacles to success. So that's kind of what lizard optimization is making this process more systematic rather than relying on happy accidents. And by making it more systematic, then we can help product management not fight it and skip this whole phase of trying to fight against our users and claim that users are stupid or non -technical or... They don't understand the product, but they're trying to figure out, well, that's what the real goals are. And then following that. Brian (08:47) That's awesome. So the pivot, right? The pivot from here's what we thought our problem was we were solving to now here's what we're actually solving and we should organize around this actual problem, right? Gojko (09:02) or here's what we're going to solve additionally. This is the problem we've solved, but hey, there's this problem as well. And then the product can grow by solving multiple problems for people and solving related problems and solving it for different groups of people, for example. And that's the really interesting thing because I think if you have a product that's already doing something well for your users and a subset of them are misusing it in some way, then kind of... Brian (09:04) Yeah. Gojko (09:30) The product might already be optimized for the majority of users, but there might be a new market somewhere else. So there might be a different market where we can help kind of a different group of users and then the product can grow. Brian (09:43) Yeah, I like to focus on the user. There's an exercise that we'll do in one of our product owner classes where we have a fake product that is a smart refrigerator. And one of the exercises we try to get them to brainstorm the different kinds of users that they might have for it. And one of the things that always comes out in that class is as they're going through and trying to describe the types of users, they inevitably hit to this crossroads where they start to decide Well, yes, we're thinking of this as a home product, something for people to use in their homes. But then the idea crosses their mind, well, what about commercial kitchens? What about people who might use this in another setting? And it's always an interesting conversation to say, well, now you've got a strategic choice to make, because you can target both. You can target one. You can say, we're ignoring the other and we're only going in this direction. So to me, I think that's kind of one of the interesting crossroad points is to say, how do I know when it's time to not just say, great, we have this other customer segment that we didn't know about, but actually we should start to pivot towards that customer segment and start to really target them. Gojko (11:03) Yeah, think that's a fundamental question of product development, isn't it? Do you keep true to your vision even if it's not coming out or if something else is there that's kind more important than I think? For me, there's a couple of aspects to that. One is, laser focus is really important to launch a product. You can't launch a product by targeting... the whole market and targeting a niche type, figuring out, you know, user personas, figuring out like really, really, this is the product who we think the product, this is the group who we think the product is for and giving them a hundred percent of what they need is much better than giving 2 % to everybody because then the product is irrelevant. But then to grow the product, we need to kind of grow the user base as well. And I think one of the things that... is interesting to look at and this comes from a book called Lean Analytics. It's one of my kind of favorite product management books is to look at the frequency and urgency of usage. If you have a group that's kind of using your product, a subgroup that's using your product very frequently compared to everybody else, that might be kind of the place where you want to go. The more frequently, the more urgently people reach for your product when they have this problem. the more likely they are going to be a good market for it. with kind of another product that I've launched in 2013, we originally thought it's going to be a product for professional users. And we aimed at the professional users. And then we found that a subcategory that we didn't really expect, were kind of teachers and children in schools. we're using it a lot more frequently than professional users. And then we started simplifying the user interface significantly so that it can be used by children. And it's a very, very popular tool in schools now. We are not fighting against other professional tools. We were kind of really one of the first in the education market there. And it's still a very popular tool in the education market because we figured a subgroup that's using it very frequently. Brian (13:14) Hmm. Yeah, that's awesome. How do you know when, you know, what kind of threshold do you look for to determine that, this is, because, you know, in your book, you're talking about, you know, behaviors that are not normal, right? People using your product in a way that you didn't anticipate. And what kind of threshold do you look for to that says, hey, it's worth investigating this? You know, I've got this percentage or this number of people who are using it in this strange way. At what point do you chase that down? Gojko (13:49) I think it's wrong to look at the percentages there. I think it's wrong to look at the percentages because then you get into the game of trying to justify economically helping 0 .1 % of the users. And that's never going to happen because what I like about this is an idea from Microsoft's Inclusive Design and the work of Kat Holmes who wrote a book called Mismatch on Brian (13:52) Okay. Gojko (14:17) assistive technologies and inclusive design for disabled people. And she talks about how it's never ever ever going to be economically justified to optimize a product to help certain disabilities because there's just not enough of them. And there's a lovely example from Microsoft where, Microsoft Inclusive Design Handbook where they talk about three types of, Brian (14:34) Yeah. Gojko (14:44) disabilities, one are permanent. So you have like people without an arm or something like that. And I'm going to kind of throw some numbers out now, order of magnitude stuff. I have these details in the book and there's kind of the micro -inclusive design handbook. Let's say at the moment, the 16 ,000 people in the U .S. without one arm or with a disabled arm. And then you have these kind of situational disabilities where because of an occupation like you have a bartender who needs to carry something all the time or a worker who does it, one arm is not available and they only have one arm to work on and this temporary like a mother carrying a child or something like that. So the other two groups are order of magnitude 20 -30 million. We're not, by making the software work well with one hand, we're not helping 16 ,000 people, we are helping 50 million people. But you don't know that you're helping 50 million people if you're just thinking about like 16 ,000. I think they have this kind of, one of the key ideas of inclusive design is solve for one, kind of help, design for one, but solve for many. So we are actually helping many, many people there. So think when you figure out that somebody is doing something really strange with your product, you're not helping just that one person. Brian (15:45) Right, right. Hmm. Gojko (16:13) you're helping a whole class of your users by making the software better, removing the obstacles to success. this is where I, you know, going back to the PowerPoint thing I mentioned, once we started removing obstacles for people to build the audios quickly, lots of other people started using the product and people started using the product in a different way. And I think this is a lovely example of what Bruce Torazzini talks about is the complexity paradox because He's a famous UX designer and he talks about how once you give people a product, their behavior changes as a result of having the product. So the UX research we've done before there is a product or there is a feature is not completely relevant, but it's a changed context because he talks about people have a certain amount of time to do a task. And then when they have a tool to complete the task faster, they can take on a more complicated task or they can take on an additional task or do something else. I think removing obstacles to use a success is really important. Not because we're helping 0 .1 % of people who we don't understand, but because we can then improve the product for everybody. And I think that's kind of the magic of lizard optimization in a sense, where if we find these things where somebody's really getting stuck. but if we help them not get stuck, then other people will use the product in a much better way. And I think this is, know, the name lizard optimization comes from this article by Scott Alexander, who talks about the lizard man's constant in research. And the article talks about his experiences with a survey that combined some demographic and psychological data. So they were looking at where you live and what your nationality is and what gender you are and then how you respond to certain psychological questions. he said, like there's about 4 % of the answers they could not account for. And one person wrote American is gender. Several people listed Martian as nationality and things like that. some of these, he says some of these things will be people who didn't really understand the question. they were distracted, they were doing something else, or they understood the question but they filled in the wrong box because, know, the thick thumbs and small screens, or they were kind of malicious and just, you know, wanted to see what happens. when you kind of add these people together, they're not an insignificant group. kind of, he says 4%. And if... we can help these people, at least some of these people, and say reduce churn by 1%. That can compound growth. Reducing churn, keeping people around for longer is an incredible way to kind of unlock growth. going back to what we were talking about, some people might be getting stuck because they don't understand the instructions. Some people might be getting stuck because they're using the product in a way you didn't expect. And some people might just like not have the mental capacity to use it the way you expected them to be used. But if we can help these people along, then normal users can use it much, easier. And you mentioned a smart fridge. I still remember there was this one wonderful bug report we had for my other product, which is a collaboration tool. we had a bug report a while ago. that the software doesn't work when it's loaded on a fridge. And it's like, well, it was never intended to be loaded on a fridge. I have no idea how you loaded it on a fridge. It's a mind mapping diagramming tool. It's intended to be used on large screens. Where does a fridge come in? And then we started talking to this person. This was before the whole kind of COVID and work from home disaster. The user was a busy mother and she was kind of trying to collaborate with her colleagues while making breakfast. breakfast for kids and kind of running around the kitchen she wasn't able to kind of pay attention to the laptop or a phone but her fridge had a screen so she loaded the software on the fridge and was able to kind of pay attention to collaboration there and you know we of course didn't optimize the software to run on fridges that's ridiculous but we realized that some people will be using it without a keyboard and without a mouse and then we kind of restructured the toolbar, we made it so that you can use it on devices that don't have a keyboard and then the whole tablet thing exploded and now you get completely different users that don't have keyboards and things like that. I think that's where I think is looking at percentages is a losing game because then you start saying, but 0 .1 % of people use this. But yeah, I think lizard optimization is about using these signals to improve the products for everybody. Brian (21:30) That's a great example. I love that example because you're absolutely right. You're not trying to necessarily solve that one problem because you don't anticipate there's going to be a lot of people who are going to want to run that software on a fridge. However, the takeaway you had from that of, we can do this for people who don't have a keyboard or a mouse. There's another way that they might operate this that could apply to lots of different devices and lots of different scenarios. Now we're talking about a much bigger audience. Now we're talking about opening this up to larger segments of the population. I love that. I think that's a great example. I know you talk about that there's kind of a process for this. Help us understand. You don't have to give away the whole candy story here from the book, but help us kind of understand in broad, terms what kind of process people follow to try to chase these things down. Gojko (22:26) So there's like a four step process that's crystallized for me. And the book is kind of more as a, like a proposal or a process. It's something that works for me and I'm hoping that other people will try it out like that. So it might not necessarily stay like that in a few years if we talk again. And I've narrowed it down to four steps and kind of the four steps start with letters L, Z, R and D. Lizard. And it's kind of so learn how people are misusing your products, zero in on one area, on one behavior change you want to improve, then remove obstacles to use a success and then double check that what you've done actually created the impact you expected to make. I think kind of when we look at people who follow their own logic or people who follow some lizard logic you don't really understand, by definition they're doing something strange. your idea of helping them might not necessarily be effective or it might not go all the way or it might. So double checking at the end that people are actually now doing what you expect them to do or doing something better is really, really, really important. And then using signals from that to improve the kind of feedback loop is critical. I had this one case where people were getting stuck on a payment format entering tax details and The form was reasonably well explained. There was an example in the forum how to enter your tax ID and people were constantly getting stuck. A small percentage of people was getting stuck on it. However, I don't want to lose a small percentage of people that want to pay me on the payment form. So I thought, well, how about if I remove that field from there? I speed it up for everybody and then I can guide them later into entering the tax details to generate an invoice. I thought that was a brilliant idea. tested it with a few users. Everybody loved it, so I released it. And then a week later, I realized that, yes, I've sold it for the people that were getting confused, but I've ended up confusing a totally different group of people that expects the tax fields there. So the net effect was negative. then I went back to the original form. so there's lots of these things where people don't necessarily behave the way you think they will. Brian (24:38) Hahaha. Gojko (24:48) Ron Kohavi has a wonderful book about that called Trustworthy Online Experiments. And he has data from Slack, from Microsoft, from Booking .com and... The numbers are depressive. on one hand, the numbers range from 10 to 30, 40 % success rate for people's ideas. And if leading companies like that do things that don't pan out two thirds of the time, then we have to be honest building our products and say, well, maybe this idea is going to work out, maybe not. Brian (25:03) Hahaha. Wow. Gojko (25:30) the more experimental the population is, the more risky that is. think monitoring and capturing weird user behaviors, capturing errors helps you understand that people are getting stuck. as you said, you don't want to follow everybody. There's going to be a lot of noise there. We need to extract signals from the noise. That's what the second step is about, focusing on one specific thing we want to improve. Then, try to remove obstacles and then double -checking that we've actually removed them. That's the four steps. And there's like a shorter version of all the four steps. It's easier to remember. It's listen alert, zooming, rescue them, and then double check at the end. that's again, LZRD. Brian (26:13) That's awesome. Yeah, I love the process and I love the kind of steps there. Are there tools that you recommend for this that are easier to try to determine these things or chase them down or are there tools that you find are more helpful? Gojko (26:32) So there's lots of tools today for things like A -B testing and looking at experiments and things that are very helpful to do this scale. And it's kind of especially useful for the last step. In terms of kind of focusing and things like that, the five stages of growth from the linear analytics are a good tool. Impact mapping is a good tool. Kind of any focusing product management technique that says, well, these are the business goals we're working on now, or these are the kind of user goals we're working on now. out of, know, 50 lizards we found last week, these three lizards seem to be kind of in that area. And for the first step, spotting when people are getting stuck, there's a bunch of tools that are interesting, like session recorders for web products. There's one from Microsoft called Clarity that's free. There's another called Full Story that's quite expensive. There's a couple of open source one, one is packaged within Matomo analytics application. There's a bunch of these other things. Any kind of observability or monitoring tool is also very useful for this because we can spot when people are getting stuck. One of the things I found particularly helpful is logging all user errors. When a user does something to cause an error condition in a product, the product of course tells them like, know, an error happened. But then... logging it and analyzing that information in the back is really critical. for something like that, people sometimes use web analytics tools or any kind of product analytics. I think what's going to be interesting in the next couple of years, and I think if people start doing this more, is we'll see. more like these technical exception analytics tracking tools mixed with this because most of the product analytics are showing people what they expect to see, not what they don't expect to see. And I'll just give you an example of this way. was really helpful. So I've mentioned the screen where people can upload the Word documents. Occasionally people would select weird file types. So they'll select images, they'll select, I don't know, what else. Brian (28:31) Yeah. Gojko (28:49) Sometimes I guess that's a result of, know, a fat finger press or somebody not selecting the right thing. I have a not insignificant percentage of users every day that try to upload Android package files into a text -to -speech reader. Android package files and application files, I don't know what the right way is to read out an Android application. My best guess is people are doing that. as a, you know, these things where you drop a USB in front of an office and somebody kind of mistakenly plugs it in. So maybe they're hoping that I'll know the Android application on my phone just because they've uploaded it. I don't know, but a small percentage of users was trying to upload files that had SRT and VTT extensions, which are subtitle files. And they were not supported, but Brian (29:31) Yeah. Gojko (29:45) I kept getting information that people are uploading those types of files. And then I said, well, this is interesting because it's a text to speech system. People are uploading subtitle files, there's text in, so why don't I just ignore the timestamps and read the text? I can do that. And I started supporting that. And then some people started complaining that, well, the voice is reading it slower than the subtitles. I said, well, yes, because... Brian (30:11) Ha Gojko (30:12) You know, you're uploading subtitles that were read by an actor in a movie. This is a voice that's reading it at their speed. And then we started talking and it turns out that these people were doing it for corporate educational videos where they have a video in English, they need it in French, German, Spanish and all the else, but they don't want to kind of re -edit the video. They just want an alternate audio track. Okay, I mean, I have the timestamps, we can speed up or slow down the audio, it's not a big deal. And we've done that and this was one of the most profitable features ever. Like a very small percentage of the users need it, but those that need it produce hundreds of thousands of audio files because they translate the corporate training videos. And now, you know, we're getting into that numbers game. If I said, you know, there's like 0 .1 % of people are uploading subtitle files. Brian (30:58) Yeah. Gojko (31:07) then it doesn't matter. if we start thinking about, this is potentially interesting use case, it creates growth on its own because then people find you. And I think my product was the first that was actually doing synchronous subtitles. Competitors are doing it now as well. But it opened the massive, massive market for us. And people, you know, I got there by monitoring user errors, by, you know, the fact that somebody uploaded a file that had an unsupported extension. That was our insight. Brian (31:38) Wow, that's really cool. That's a great story. This is fascinating stuff. And it makes me want to dive deeper into the book and read through it again. But I really appreciate you coming on and sharing this with us, Goiko. This is good stuff. Again, the book is called, Lizard Optimization, Unlock Product Growth by Engaging Long Tail Users. And if I'm right, we talked about this a little bit before. We're going to offer a discount to to the listeners, Gojko (32:07) Yes, we will give you a listen as a 50 % discount on the ebook. the ebook is available from Lean Pub. If you get it from the discount URL that I'll give you, then you'll get a 50 % discount immediately. Brian (32:24) Awesome. So we'll put that in our show notes. If you're interested in that, you can find the show notes. That's a great deal, 50 % off the book and it's good stuff. well, I just, I can't thank you enough. Thanks for making time and coming on and talking this through your book. Gojko (32:40) Thank you, it was lovely to chat to you.

FAVORITES: This was our preview to the 2020 Tokyo Olympics (which really happened in 2021) and includes an interview with Kat Holmes, member of USA Fencing and daughter of longtime Satellite Sisters listener Lorrie! Guess what? Kat is back at the Paris Olympics this year. Go Next Gen Satellite Sister! Thank you to our sponsors and to listeners for using these special urls and codes to support them. Our exciting new sponsor is: Miracle Suit https://miraclesuit.com Use code sisters Plus: Prose  https://prose.com/sisters Butcher Box https://butcherbox.com/sisters Use code sisters at checkout Osea https://oseamalibu.com Use code satsisters at checkout  Listen to other Summer of '24 FAVORITES: FAVORITES: Root Canal Fro-Yo Rage FAVORITES: Lian Interviews Dave Barry + Ridley Pearson, Lab Rats Test Soy Milk FAVORITES: College Drop-Off Dolan-Style ALL the FAVORITES are posted in a single blog post here on our website. Our Satellite Sisters Summer Olympics Special: What we are looking forward to, what we will miss and a special interview with Kat Holmes, member of USA Fencing who is going for the gold and daughter of longtime Satellite Sisters listener Lorrie! Satellite Sister of the Week: Astronaut Wally Funk. Behind the Scenes at the Game: NPR's Mandalit del Barco's Facebook posts from Tokyo Games We will miss Coco Gauff and other athletes who will not compete because of positive COVID tests.  Olympic Champion Katie Ledecky swims the first ever women's mile at the Olympics. Olympic newcomer Athing Mu competes on the track in the Women's 800 meters. Equestrian Jessica Springsteen, daughter of you-know-who and Patti Scialfa, competes in show jumping. Basketball star Dawn Staley coaches the US Women's Basketball Team. Entertaining Sisters: Julie recommends Ted Lasso Season 2 and Never Have I Ever  Liz is debating about Immersive Van Gogh  Lian reminds listeners that there are 3 great cookbooks on the Best Beach Bag Books list including Valerie Rice's Lush Life. Her instagram is @eatdrinkgarden. Find Lush Life recipes at https://www.eatdrinkgarden.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're in the thick of Olympic and Paralympic Trials for Team USA! On this episode, we're featuring some of the gymnasts who will be vying for slots on the Team USA's artistic gymnastics team this weekend. Yul Moldauer and Brody Malone talked with us at Team USA's Media Summit in April, and they'll be competing to get onto their second Olympic team. Learn more on how to watch the gymnastics trials here. Follow Yul on Insta and X, and Brody on Insta and X. Also joining us is rhythmic gymnast Evita Griskenas. Evita has already qualified for Paris 2024, which will be her second Olympics. Follow Evita on Insta and X. Then we have Alison's interviews with the women who will compete for the US in épée fencing: Kat Holmes, Anne Cebula, Margherita Guzzi Vincenti and Hadley Husisian. Follow Kat, Anne, Margherita and Hadley on Insta. Thanks to USA Fencing for having Alison to their Media Day! Need swag to celebrate the upcoming Games? We're having a giveaway -- sign up for our newsletter, and you'll be entered to win a great prize pack.  In Paris 2024 news, more hospitality houses and pavilions will open their doors, and luckily there maps to help. Parc de la Villette has a map, and Paris 2024's map is here! France Television is also ramping up its coverage of the Paralympics. SKIMS is continuing its collaboration with Team USA. Find the collection here.   LA 2028 has announced a new sport for the Paralympic program.   In our news from TKFLASTAN, we hear from: Para powerlifter Louise Sugden Former biathlete Clare Egan   For a transcript of this episode, please visit http://flamealivepod.com.   Thanks so much for listening, and until next time, keep the flame alive!   *** Keep the Flame Alive: The Olympics and Paralympics Fan Podcast with hosts Jill Jaracz & Alison Brown. New episodes released every week and daily during the Olympics and Paralympics. Also look for our monthly Games History Moment episodes in your feed.   Support the show: http://flamealivepod.com/support Bookshop.org store: https://bookshop.org/shop/flamealivepod TeePublic merch: https://www.teepublic.com/?ref_id=36040 Hang out with us online: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/flamealivepod Insta: http://www.instagram.com/flamealivepod Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/flamealivepod Facebook Group: hhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/flamealivepod Newsletter: Sign up at https://mailchi.mp/ee507102fbf7/flamealivepod VM/Text: (208) FLAME-IT / (208) 352-6348        

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, Admin Evangelist Josh Birk sits down with Kat Holmes, Chief Design Officer and EVP at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about diversity, accessibility, and her book, Mismatch: How Inclusion Shapes Design. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with […] The post Unlocking Diversity in Tech: a Deep Dive with Kat Holmes & Josh Birk appeared first on Salesforce Admins.

En este episodio contamos con la maravillosa Claudia Tegclen, una defensora incansable de los derechos de las personas con discapacidad. Nacida de forma prematura con una parálisis cerebral y pronósticos médicos desalentadores, logró transformar adversidad en propósito. Psicóloga de formación, ha recibido el Premio Princesa de Girona 2022 y actualmente preside la Asociación Convives con Espasticidad. Con su voz, Claudia se ha destacado en el mundo de la consultoría y la comunicación, siendo un referente en la promoción de la inclusión y el respeto hacia la diversidad, y un referente para muchos con su lucha, su positivismo y su humanidad.Durante nuestra conversación, Claudia nos lleva por un recorrido de su vida, compartiendo sus desafíos, logros y cómo ha convertido su discapacidad en una oportunidad para impactar vidas. Hablaremos sobre la importancia de la inclusión laboral y cómo las personas con discapacidad aportan valor inmenso a los equipos, más allá de la mera generosidad o compromiso social.Si estás buscando una dosis de inspiración y reflexión profunda, este episodio es para ti. Acompáñanos en este viaje con Claudia y descubre por qué la vida nunca deja de sorprendernos.Artículos recomendados para profundizar en el tema:"The Business Case for Diversity and Inclusion" por Robert Livingston, en Harvard Business Review. Este artículo analiza cómo la diversidad, incluida la discapacidad, puede aportar un valor real a las organizaciones."Building an Inclusive Workforce" por Malcom Gladwell, en The New Yorker. Gladwell examina casos de estudio donde la inclusión de personas con discapacidad ha beneficiado a las organizaciones."The Inclusive Imperative: Redefining Leadership" por Dolly Chugh, en MIT Sloan Management Review. Este artículo presenta la inclusión como un componente clave del liderazgo en el siglo XXI."Why Designing for Disability Leads to Better Solutions for Everyone" por Kat Holmes, en Fast Company. Holmes explora cómo diseñar con y para personas con discapacidad puede conducir a soluciones innovadoras que beneficien a todos.No olvides seguirme en YouTube, Instagram, Twitter o LinkedIn @TalentPills. Este podcast está disponible en las principales plataformas de podcasts (Spotify, Apple, Amazon Music, iVoox, etc.)Musica gracias a Epidemic Sound - https://www.epidemicsound.com/

FULL TRANSCRIPT   Today's podcast is the recording of our company book talk discussing Mismatch: How Inclusion Shapes Design by Kat Holmes. Mismatch is the second book we are reading in 2023. This conversation goes over forming a business case for inclusive design, multiple examples of billion-dollar products that began as accessible technology (such as the iPhone), common myths in inclusive design, and much more. The accessibility champions leading today's podcast are: Harper Yatvin, Tamman's Marketing Specialist and Article 19 Associate Podcast Producer Kristen Witucki, Tamman contributor, author, and teacher We highly encourage you to read this (non-sponsored) book, especially if you are a designer, CEO, or product developer. We also invite you to share your insights with us on social media. As usual, this episode's links and show notes are found on this podcast's page on our website, Tammaninc.com.

In this episode of First to 15, we're joined by Natalie Dostert, Team USA's women's epee national head coach.Before taking the lead of Team USA's women's epee program in January 2022, Natalie coached our cadet and junior women's epee teams, trained several U.S. national team members and guided athletes to international medals. The list of fencers she has worked with is too long to name, but just a few are Kelley and Courtney Hurley, Kat Holmes and Francesca Bassa.She's been an epee coach at the Alliance Fencing Academy in Houston since 2015. Before that, Natalie was the head epee coach at a fencing club in Bonn, Germany, from 2013 to 2015.  And her own fencing experience is definitely worth mentioning as well. Natalie was a German national team and university champion, holds a German “Coaching ‘A'” license from the German Fencing Federation and earned a Bachelor of Science degree in biology from the University of Bonn.Visit the USA Fencing websiteFollow USA Fencing on InstagramRead a transcript for this episode--First to 15: The Official Podcast of USA FencingHost: Bryan WendellCover art: Manna CreationsTheme music: Brian Sanyshyn

We all know what product design is but what does inclusive design, and why does it need to be a priority for product managers? On this week's podcast, we were joined by Saielle DaSilver, Director of User Experience at Cazoo to talk all about designing products for people who might face limitations when using your product.  Featured Links: Follow Saielle on LinkedIn and Twitter | Saielle's website Blossom | Kat Holmes' talk 'Design for 7 Billion. Design for One' | Kat Holmes' Inclusive Toolkit | Kat Holmes' book 'Mismatch' | 'What is Inclusive Design? Principles and Examples' by Justin Morales | Help Saielle with Gender Transition

Kat is an executive data leader and is passionate about all things people, culture and business. I met Kat about a year ago, over a coffee waxing about data, culture, the world and our post-pandemic hopes. One thing that stands out with Kat is her passion and heartfelt approach to people and transformation. She wears her heart on her sleeve and what you see is what you get! My kind of person! When she's not doing her day job, she's busy with MenopuaseX providing data insights and recommendations to improve the well-being of all individuals affected by the menopause. which she founded about a year ago. As always and I'm not biased, I think you will love this episode. As we get to know more about data leaders we see a vast array of personalities and what motivates them to do what they do. So, without giving too much away, behind every data leader there is a person and here is Kat unplugged!

Our Satellite Sisters Summer Olympics Special: What we are looking forward to, what we will miss and a special interview with Kat Holmes, member of USA Fencing who is going for the gold and daughter of longtime Satellite Sisters listener Lorrie! Satellite Sister of the Week: Astronaut Wally Funk. Thanks, NBC! We'll be watching ALL the Olympic action, starting with the Opening Ceremonies Friday night.  Behind the Scenes at the Game: NPR's Mandalit del Barco's Facebook posts from Tokyo Games We will miss Coco Gauff and other athletes who will not compete because of positive COVID tests.  Olympic Champion Katie Ledecky swims the first ever women's mile at the Olympics. Olympic newcomer Athing Mu competes on the track in the Women's 800 meters. Equestrian Jessica Springsteen, daughter of you-know-who and Patti Scialfa, competes in show jumping. Basketball star Dawn Staley coaches the US Women's Basketball Team. Entertaining Sisters: Julie recommends Ted Lasso Season 2 and Never Have I Ever  Liz is debating about Immersive Van Gogh  Lian reminds listeners that there are 3 great cookbooks on the Best Beach Bag Books list including Valerie Rice's Lush Life. Her instagram is @eatdrinkgarden. Find Lush Life recipes at https://www.eatdrinkgarden.com Tune in for an interview Naomi Hirahara next week, author of Clark & Division Cooking With Liz LIVE in the Satellite Sisters Facebook Group Thursday July 22 at 5 pm Pacific time. Recipes for this week: Cacio e Pepe Cheese Puffs and Pomegranate Gimlet, both by Ina Garten. For info on The Sweeney Sisters and Lian's online book clubs for The Sweeney Sisters go to www.liandolan.com Visit the website Satellite Sisters: A Pep Talk For Modern Women Subscribe to our newsletter Pep Talk here. For all of our booklists at Bookshop.org, go to www.bookshop.org/shop/liandolan Buy The Sweeney Sisters here on bookshop.org or here on amazon. Join our community: Facebook Page, Facebook Group and on Instagram and Twitter @satsisters. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Our Satellite Sisters Summer Olympics Special: What we are looking forward to, what we will miss and a special interview with Kat Holmes, member of USA Fencing who is going for the gold and daughter of longtime Satellite Sisters listener Lorrie!Satellite Sister of the Week: Astronaut Wally Funk.Thanks, NBC! We'll be watching ALL the Olympic action, starting with the Opening Ceremonies Friday night.Behind the Scenes at the Game: NPR's Mandalit del Barco's Facebook posts from Tokyo GamesWe will miss Coco Gauff and other athletes who will not compete because of positive COVID tests. Olympic Champion Katie Ledecky swims the first ever women's mile at the Olympics.Olympic newcomer Athing Mu competes on the track in the Women's 800 meters.Equestrian Jessica Springsteen, daughter of you-know-who and Patti Scialfa, competes in show jumping.Basketball star Dawn Staley coaches the US Women's Basketball Team.Entertaining Sisters:Julie recommends Ted Lasso Season 2 and Never Have I Ever Liz is debating about Immersive Van Gogh Lian reminds listeners that there are 3 great cookbooks on the Best Beach Bag Books list including Valerie Rice's Lush Life. Her instagram is @eatdrinkgarden. Find Lush Life recipes at https://www.eatdrinkgarden.comTune in for an interview Naomi Hirahara next week, author of Clark & DivisionThank you for supporting our sponsors and using these special urls: Kiwi Co. www.kiwico.com/sistersBetterHelp www.betterhelp.com/SATSISTERS.Zip Recruiter www.ziprecruiter.com/sistersMeUndies www.meundies.com/sistersCooking With Liz LIVE in the Satellite Sisters Facebook Group Thursday July 22 at 5 pm Pacific time.Recipes for this week: Cacio e Pepe Cheese Puffs and Pomegranate Gimlet, both by Ina Garten.For info on The Sweeney Sisters and Lian's online book clubs for The Sweeney Sisters go to www.liandolan.comVisit the website Satellite Sisters: A Pep Talk For Modern WomenSubscribe to our newsletter Pep Talk here.For all of our booklists at Bookshop.org, go to www.bookshop.org/shop/liandolanBuy The Sweeney Sisters here on bookshop.org or here on amazon.Join our community: Facebook Page, Facebook Group and on Instagram and Twitter @satsisters.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

studio:indigenous, University of Wisconsin Milwaukee School of Architecture and Urban Planning, Mismatch by Kat Holmes, Decolonizing Methodologies: Research and Indigenous Peoples by Linda Tuhiwai Smith, native-land.ca

The author of the beautiful accessibility book Mismatch, Kat Holmes, comes on to share her own personal journey and how inclusive design can take some of its greatest learnings through examining acts of exclusion.

In Episode 20 of Driven by Data: The Podcast, Kyle Winterbottom is joined by Kat Holmes, Global Director of Data Governance at Travelex, where they discuss whether the end is near for Data Governance. In this episode, Kat outlines her thoughts around the current landscape surrounding Data Governance, which includes: Why organisations often wrongly conflate Governance & Protection Why we've seen a resurgence in Data Governance How Data Governance doesn’t have an end point Why Data Governance should be as invisible as possible Why Data Governance doesn’t belong in a Risk function Why you need to remove humans as much as possible How an AI data catalogue is a fundamental piece for seamless Data Governance Why you need to integrate Data Governance into the data integration process Why she doesn’t believe in traditional Master Data Management Why we need to change the vocabulary Why it was the right time to “come out” in relation to an invisible disability she suffers with

In this Deep Dive Town Hall Series, we tackle the climate crisis. Representatives from three Washington join us to talk about their respective legislative agendas, and what their goals and hopes are for this year's session. With: - Jamie Ptacek, Lead Organizer of the Washington Can't Wait Campaign with the land-use organization, Futurewise - Lauren Braynaert, Coalition Director with Climate Alliance for Jobs and Clean Energy, a multi-sector, climate-just coalition in WA state. - Kat Holmes, Field Director with the Washington Environmental Council and Washington Conservation Voters This was recorded live on Saturday, January 26th. Show Notes: Washington Can't Wait legislative agenda: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k6x9vcawlVSQc-qDmqgy819cLfAO_31tLJZeOyhb2gA/edit Environmental Priorities Coalition legislative agenda: https://wecprotects.org/environmental-priorities-coalition-2/ Climate Alliance for Job & Clean Energy legislative agenda: https://waclimatealliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Climate-Alliance-Resilient-Future-Platform.pdf

Kat Sharkey – a member of the 2012 NCAA champion field hockey team, the all-time leading scorer in program history, and a member of the 2016 U.S. Olympic field hockey team, and Kat Holmes – part of the 2013 NCAA fencing championship team, a four-time All-American, and a 2016 Olympian.

Nightmares lurk out in the inky black void of the Frontier. Ships and colonies vanish without a trace, their desperate cries for help siren lures to would be rescuers. The crew of the USCSS Asmodeus are sent to deliver supplies to the colony on Dagon V. What horrors will they find in the cold reaches of space? And who will hear their screams?With the navigational array repaired, the USCSS Asmodeus arrives in orbit over Dagon V. After failing to raise the colony on comms, the crew make the fateful decision to land and investigate. Ben as the Game Mother,Austin as Lands Handsley, Comtech Engineer,Nik as Ludwig Strauss, Ship's pilot and XO,Ed as Ricardo Diaz, Captain of the USCSS Asmodeus,and Rosemary as Kat Holmes, Roughneck and Engineer.Free League PublishingBattle BardsCo.AgSoundsnapGunn for Hire See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Nightmares lurk out in the inky black void of the Frontier. Ships and colonies vanish without a trace, their desperate cries for help siren lures to would be rescuers. The crew of the USCSS Asmodeus are sent to deliver supplies to the colony on Dagon V. What horrors will they find in the cold reaches of space? And who will hear their screams?The crew awaken from hypersleep after many long months in suspended animation only to find the ship needs repairs. Someone must brave the the infinite void to get the Asmodeus back online.Ben as the Game Mother,Austin as Lands Handsley, Comtech Engineer,Nik as Ludwig Strauss, Ship's pilot and XO,Ed as Ricardo Diaz, Captain of the USCSS Asmodeus,and Rosemary as Kat Holmes, Roughneck and Engineer.Free League PublishingBattle BardsCo.AgSoundsnapOf Dice and Dens See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Nightmares lurk out in the inky black void of the Frontier. Ships and colonies vanish without a trace, their desperate cries for help siren lures to would be rescuers. The crew of the USCSS Asmodeus are sent to deliver supplies to the colony on Dagon V. What horrors will they find in the cold reaches of space? And who will hear their screams?Tensions are at the breaking point as the crew try to determine what happened to the colonists of Dagon V. To learn the truth, they must descend further into the colony rig. Can they survive the terrors lurking below?Ben as the Game Mother,Austin as Lands Handsley, Comtech Engineer,Nik as Ludwig Strauss, Ship's pilot and XO,Ed as Ricardo Diaz, Captain of the USCSS Asmodeus,and Rosemary as Kat Holmes, Roughneck and Engineer.Free League PublishingBattle BardsCo.AgSoundsnapBillowing Hilltop Podcast See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Nightmares lurk out in the inky black void of the Frontier. Ships and colonies vanish without a trace, their desperate cries for help siren lures to would be rescuers. The crew of the USCSS Asmodeus are sent to deliver supplies to the colony on Dagon V. What horrors will they find in the cold reaches of space? And who will hear their screams?Captain Ricardo is critically injured and the crew are thoroughly in over their heads. Before they bug out, they decide to check one last place for any survivors. In the end, the game is rigged and the Company always wins. The crew is expendable, and all other priorities secondary.Ben as the Game Mother,Austin as Lands Handsley, Comtech Engineer,Nik as Ludwig Strauss, Ship's pilot and XO,Ed as Ricardo Diaz, Captain of the USCSS Asmodeus,and Rosemary as Kat Holmes, Roughneck and Engineer.Free League PublishingBattle BardsCo.AgSoundsnap20 Sided Adventures Podcast See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

You’re listening to the Fortune 500 Daily: The companies you know; the insight you need. Support for this podcast and the following message come from TD Ameritrade. Everything’s customizable these days. Your trading platform can be too. With thinkorswim, you can customize screeners, charting, and stock forecasts, so the market is always tailored to you. You can get started at TD Ameritrade dot com slash thinkorswim. We’re sharing some of our favorite episodes from the past year. Enjoy today's episode and stay safe. The next time you do a Google search… consider this. Nearly seventy-percent of the world’s websites do not meet basic accessibility criteria. That means millions of people with disabilities can’t access the internet. Kat Holmes is tackling this issue head on. She is Google’s Director of User Experience, and also author of the book “Mismatch – How Inclusion Shapes Design.” Holmes took the stage at Fortune’s Brainstorm Design conference in March 2019 to explain her unique approach to the topic. KAT HOLMES SOT @ :40 “The word inclusion means many different things to many different people. :44 And I was invited to write a book on this topic and in doing so had to examine whether or not I really understood what the word meant. :51 And in doing that I looked at the root word – which is (CLAW-dare), which is Latin for to shut. :56 So exclude is literally to shut out and include is to shut in 1:01 And I started to wonder maybe there is something about this mental model of being shut in and shut out, that was even limiting the way we think about inclusion and solutions associated with it. 1:11 // 2:25 Now the moment this started to unlock my thinking about this shut in shut out model is when I read world health organization’s definition of disability. Which in 2001 was dramatically redefined as a mismatched interaction between the features of a person’s body and the features of the environment in which they live. 2:42 2:43 And this shift in thinking from disability as a personal health condition to a mismatched interaction, clearly placed responsibility on me and my colleagues to examine each of our choices as we were building solutions, 2:53 to see how they were either increasing or decreasing those mismatches for people.” 2:57 Holmes cited an example of a public toilet that requires you to wave your hand over a sensor in order to flush. A great innovation for most, but a “mismatch” for anyone who is blind, cannot read the language or doesn’t have a hand to wave. In a world where the words “diversity” and “inclusion” have become part of the corporate vernacular – Holmes said companies need to extend their focus into the design process too. KAT HOLMES SOT @ 11:31 “So I think about that in all of the spaces and places that we create, 11:33 and the businesses that we lead and the kinds of solutions that we put out in the world 11:36 And people often ask me ‘Where do I start with inclusive design?’ 11:39 // 11:46 The key is to start recognizing the different types of exclusion that show up… // 11:51 then asking ourselves who experiences the highest degree of that exclusion, and bringing them right into the heart of the design process, 11:59 as people who participate in creating those solutions. 12:01 //11:12 It doesn’t mean that you’re designing one thing for all people, it means you’re designing a diversity of ways that people can participate in an experience with a shared sense of belonging.” 11:21 That’s your Fortune 500 Daily. Check back weekday mornings to hear more from Fortune 500 leaders. And now, you can also listen to a new Fortune podcast - Leadership Next with Alan Murray. Search for FORTUNE-LEADERSHIP-NEXT, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

Web: geremy.design Twitter: @geremygood Zacht Studios: zacht.studio Read: "So You Want to Talk about Race" by Ijeoma Oluo, "Future Ethics" by Cennydd Bowles, and "Mismatch" by Kat Holmes. Listen to Prince. Support our guests and the creation of future episodes through sponsorship (bezier.show/support) or by buying Bézier swag. Transcript link. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/bezier/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/bezier/support

*This interview is excerpted from our 2018 interview. Inclusion can be far more than a feel-good sideline. Google's Kat Holmes joins the Talent Angle to show how inclusion can spur innovation, catalyze creativity, and boost the bottom line. 

In this episode, Kathryn, Misty, and Nancy talk with Beth Dolliver, one of Region 10's Instructional Designers. Beth shares that "Everyone is temporarily abled," and explains how accessibility is an equity issue. Since our work frequently includes blended learning formats, LMSs, and multi-media presentations, these ideas are especially important for meeting the needs of all learners (and their families!) Start to make your work more accessible: Use contrasting colors in slides, documents, etc. Make certain the font sizes can be increased. Use less text per slide. Check your work using screen readers. Use the style guides (i.e. titles and headers). Check to see if your work is keyboard friendly. Accessibility checklist Additional Resources: Accessibility Laws and Policies NVDA screen reader JAWS screen reader (paid) Color Contrast Checker Microsoft's Accessibility Features Microsoft Accessibility Checker PDF Accessibility Checker Captioning Feature in Google Slides Google's Posts About Accessibility Captioning in YouTube Grackle Chrome Extension to Check Accessibility of G Suite Tools Accessibility Conference Accessibility Webinars: Level Access, Web AIM, W3C Accessibility Conversations and In the News: Curious Minds podcast episode with Kat Holmes, "The Power of Inclusive Design" First-Of-Its-Kind Trial Goes Plaintiff's Way; Winn-Dixie Must Update Website For The Blind Domino’s Pizza was just dealt a Supreme Court blow that could reshape the ADA in the digital era Mattel Introduces a Braille UNO deck Haben Girma, Disability Rights Lawyer, Author, Speaker

In response to anti-government protests the Iraq government shut down the internet six days ago. Coverage returned briefly before the president was due to give a televised address on Sunday allowing social media reports of violence at the demonstrations to be posted. Currently 75% of Iraq is covered by the ban. Kurdistan is unaffected. Mismatch There’s no such thing as normal—so why are we all made to use devices, live in cities or travel in vehicles that are so uniform? Whether it’s a computer accessory that only works for right-handed people or airline seats that are unusable for taller people, we need more inclusive design. We discuss Kat Holmes’ new book Mismatch: How Inclusion Shapes Design. Beatie at the Barbican Singer-songwriter and innovator Beatie Wolfe is showing a “teaser” of her new work at London’s Barbican gallery alongside the launch of a film about her. This environmental protest piece distils 800,000 years of historic data of carbon dioxide in the Earth’s atmosphere. It will become an interactive visualisation and soundtrack using gaming software. The Lightyear One: a self-charging electric car The Lightyear One is a prototype solar-powered electric car. There are plans to take it into production by 2021. The manufacturer claims a range of 720km in sunny climates and even 400 km in cloudy, wet UK winter. Tom Stephens reports. (Photo: Iraq protests. Credit:Reuters) Producer: Ania Lichtarowicz

What if you design a product or service that prevents certain people from using it? These kinds of mismatches are everywhere: a computer mouse that works only for the right-handed; credit-card-only payment systems that exclude those without credit; and even game controllers for gamers who can’t use their hands. Inclusive design advocate, Kat Holmes, explains, “The design of the controller is an indicator of who gaming is for and who it is not for…to think that one little piece of plastic shaped in a particular way is a gateway requirement to who can and can’t participate…starts to become a really absurd idea.” When this kind of exclusionary design scales, it can shape entire industries and markets. And for many designers, these outcomes are unintended. That's why Kat Holmes, UX designer and author of the book Mismatch: How Inclusion Shapes Design, is a champion of inclusive design. In fact, she's developed a framework for design teams, so that more people can participate. Kat argues that inclusive design should be a priority, not an afterthought. In addition to all the ways it helps people, it’s often been a smart business decision. To that end, Kat shares all the ways design teams can make this an ongoing part of the creative process: “…whether it’s the team…the work environment, the tools…the assumptions, all of these things are…opportunities for either balancing towards exclusion or towards inclusion.” Kat served as Principal Director of Inclusive Design at Microsoft and in 2017 was named one of Fast Company’s Most Creative People in Business. Today she serves as Director of User Experience Design at Google. The Host You can learn more about Curious Minds Host and Creator, Gayle Allen, and Producer, Rob Mancabelli, by visiting @CuriousGayle and www.gayleallen.net. Episode Links @katholmes The Laws of Simplicity by John Maeda World Health Organization on disabilities John Porter, UX Designer at Microsoft Susan Goltsman and the Emergence of Inclusive Design A Brief History of Closed Captioning (it all started with Julia Child) Pellogrino Turri and The Technology of Compassion Vint Cerf Simple Ways to Support the Podcast If you enjoy the podcast, there are three simple ways you can support our work. First, subscribe so you’ll never miss an episode. Second, tell a friend or family member. You’ll always have someone to talk to about the interview. Third, rate and review the podcast wherever you subscribe. You’ll be helping listeners find their next podcast. Look for the Curious Minds podcast on: Spotify iTunes Tunein Stitcher Google Play Overcast

In her new book inclusive design expert Kat Holmes explains why the most effective business models and products are the ones that benefit the greatest variety of people. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Sometimes designed objects reject their users: a computer mouse that doesn't work for left-handed people, for example, or something as simple as color choices can render a product unusable for millions. These mismatches are the building blocks of exclusion. In her book "Mismatch: How Inclusion Shapes Design", Kat Holmes describes how design can lead to exclusion, and how inclusive design methods can be a source of innovation and growth, especially for digital technologies. Host Dan Loney talks with Kat about her book on Knowledge@Wharton. Book: https://www.amazon.com/Mismatch-Inclusion-Simplicity-Technology-Business/dp/0262038889 See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Sonia and Colleen share progress on their new YouTube show, Microsoft Unboxed. Colleen chats with Founder and Chairman of the Board of the Nuevo Foundation, Beatris Mendez Gandica about her work to inspire kids to be curious, confident, and courageous by discovering the world of STEM. Our hosts interview the Founder of Mismatch.design and the Author of Mismatch: How Inclusion Shapes Design, Kat Holmes. The show wraps with a conversation about The Wing’s updated admissions policy.

A computer mouse that doesn’t work for left-handed people, an interface whose color scheme is inaccessible for users with colorblindness, a touchscreen payment system that’s only usable by those who read English, have 20/20 vision, and use a credit card—these design oversights are the building blocks of exclusion, and they’re built into many devices we take for granted. Inclusive design expert Kat Holmes founded mismatch.design to combat the problem of devices that reject their users, and she brought her expertise to Town Hall to discuss how assumptions or thoughtless choices can lead to exclusion in design. She was joined in conversation by Hanson Hosein, Director of the Communication Leadership master’s program at the University of Washington. Holmes cited advice from her book Mismatch: How Inclusion Shapes Design to show how inclusion can be a source of innovation and growth, especially for digital technologies, acting as a catalyst for creativity and a boost for the bottom line as a customer base expands. Join Holmes and Hosein for a treatise on remedying mismatched designs and creating elegant solutions that make tech accessible for excluded users. Kat Holmes is the founder of mismatch.design, a community and digital magazine dedicated to advancing inclusive design. Holmes served as the Principal Director of Inclusive Design at Microsoft from 2014-2017 and led a multi-disciplinary team in the development of the award-winning Inclusive: A Microsoft Design Toolkit. Hanson Hosein is the Director of the Communication Leadership master’s program at the University of Washington and the President of HRH Media Group LLC. He’s a pioneer of multimedia storytelling: as an Emmy and Overseas Press Club award-winning journalist for NBC News, a solo TV war correspondent with MSNBC and CBC and a documentary film director. Recorded live at University Lutheran Church by Town Hall Seattle on Tuesday, October 2, 2018. 

Inclusion can be far more than a feel-good sideline. Google’s Kat Holmes joins the Talent Angle to show how inclusion can spur innovation, catalyze creativity, and boost the bottom line even as organizations grow. Leaders must address these moments of exclusion - Mismatched interactions - to consciously design an organization where employees are empowered to develop and contribute in meaningful ways. For a deeper look into the ways inclusion fuels innovation, check out one of Kat’s articles.  

“Inclusion has risen to the top of many organizations, but what to do next is still unclear.” In this episode, Kat Holmes opens our eyes to bias and exclusion in the design process of everyday objects and technologies, and introduces a new hypothesis for how to break the cycle. Kat is a pioneer of inclusive design, previously at Microsoft and currently as founder at Kata. Her award-winning Inclusive Design toolkit is widely recognized as a radical evolution of design thinking and she was recently recognized as one of Fast Company’s Most Creative People in Business. You can order Kat’s book Mismatch here: https://www.katacompany.com/mismatch/

Kat Holmes was most recently Microsoft's Principal Director for Inclusive Design. In this episode, we define inclusive design, explore how to apply it to our own work, and learn why designing for the "average" or "normal" person is the old way of designing. FOLLOW US Twitter: http://twitter.com/highrespodcast Facebook: http://facebook.com/highrespodcast iTunes: http://bit.ly/highresitunes Google Play: http://bit.ly/highresgoogle Get early access to the next episode: http://highresolution.design/early-access THANKS TO OUR PARTNERS Squarespace – Squarespace is a SaaS-based content management system offering a website builder, eCommerce, and domains. We're big fans of Squarespace, they're a must-have for startups, photographers, bloggers or hobbyists looking to put up a beautifully designed digital presence! Get 10% off your first purchase on Squarespace. http://bit.ly/sqspacesponsorlink InVision – InVision is the world's leading product design platform, powering the future of digital product design through our deep understanding of the dynamics of collaboration. Teams that build digital products are at a serious advantage when they use InVision's suite of prototyping tools. They're a great way of getting everyone on board. Get 3 full months on InVision FREE http://bit.ly/invisionpartner Searle Video – Searle Video is a creative studio based out of Portland, Oregon. They've helped the creative community tell stories for over 10 years. They've done advertisements, behind the scenes stories, and documentaries for companies like Slack, Intel, Adobe, Google and the XOXO festival. http://bit.ly/searlesponsor

Kat Holmes, Dir. Inclusive Design, was part of a core group of designers who paved a new road for Microsoft's products by focusing on human-centered and inclusive design principles. It didn't happen overnight though. Their breakthrough method had to be socialized using toolkits and manifestos and is now the core of how Microsoft designs products. She fills us in. This full episode goes live on May 8th, want access on the 5th instead? Subscribe for early access here http://highresolution.design/early-access/

The O’Reilly Design Podcast: Building bridges across disciplines, universal vs. inclusive design, and what playground design can teach us about inclusion.In this week’s Design Podcast, I sit down with Kat Holmes, principal design director, inclusive design at Microsoft. We talk about what she looks for in designers, working on the right problems to solve, and why both inclusive and universal design are important but not the same.Here are some highlights from our conversation: Thinking in systems, building bridges Broadly across Microsoft, I'll just say, there are so many different types of design challenges that we're working on. One of the things that consistently is true is that people look to take on some of the biggest challenges facing our society. There's a lot that comes across the plate of our designers at Microsoft. People who can meet those challenges with an open sense of collaboration and partnership, but also with a very human-led approach to those problems. Really being able to spend time with customers or even just observing people in environments. Not everybody needs to be a full-on researcher, but you do have to have the powers of observation. You have to have the power of human insight to some degree, or at least be able to develop that. Then, you need the ability to translate that into solutions that really, as I said earlier, address a sharp, pointed challenge that a person is having. That's broader across Microsoft. It's pretty wide statement. There's a lot of specialized skills. When it comes to inclusive design, one of the things that's most important is being able to think about broader systems. Thinking about things that are interconnected—if you change one thing at this end of the operating system, what are the downstream consequences and impacts of that? Because there needs to be a heightened awareness of the kinds of obstacles that are being either raised or lowered with every design decision that we make. Inclusive designers need to be thinking about that barrier specifically and help illuminate that for our partners across all product teams that are really driving quickly, but may not always see every consequence or obstacle that comes and goes. Another very important skill for a designer in this space is being able to build bridges across disciplines. To your question earlier about what does design look like at Microsoft, one of the things I'm most proud of and why I love working here is there's a strong emphasis on designing as an act, as a verb, as something that happens only when you have multiple disciplines in one space. There's designing as a way of working, unique and distinct from a designer with specific skills and a specific set of responsibilities. In a job here, when we hire, we’re looking for somebody who understands that kind of bridge building that's required to bring people into understanding the design mindset, the design application, design thinking—ways of reframing and looking newly at maybe very traditional problems or systems. That ability to build a bridge and help other people see as well how that designing journey and process can lead to a better result together is an incredibly important skill. Universal vs. inclusive If you design for everyone, no one is satisfied. It's one of the best and most common questions we get as we do inclusive design. There's an important distinction, I believe, to draw between universal design and inclusive design. Universal design, in a nutshell, could be summed up as one size fits all. It's taking a solution and finding many, many ways to adapt or ways to accommodate or add to to make that work for as many people as possible. Think of the curb cut. It’s certainly a great access enhancement, but you also have to think about the texture that's on the surface of the curb to make it distinguishable for people with low vision or who are blind, because curb cuts pose quite a serious safety risk for people who are unable to see them or notice the transition into the street. There's the chirping of the streetlights that also indicates when it's safe. There's a lot around that, trying to make that one curb cut, which increases access, safe and also accessible for a lot more people. When I think of universal design, it is incredibly important. There’s a long history and practice, especially in the built environment, but it is distinct from inclusive design. Inclusive design, in comparison, would consider one size fits one. The one-size-fits-one idea is really about how you adapt something that is plastic, that is flexible, that is malleable and adaptive, to fit not just an individual person’s abilities, but their contexts, their motivations for whatever they're trying to complete in that moment. One of my favorite examples is playgrounds. I worked with Susan Goltsman from MIG Consulting in San Francisco last year. One of the most important things I learned from Susan was that inclusive design is about creating a diversity of ways for people to participate in an experience so they have a sense of belonging in that place. When you think about a playground, you can look and observe and say ‘What's this playground really great at? Is this all about digging? Is it about climbing? Is it about swinging?’ Then look at how many different ways a truly inclusive playground will give children of all ages, sizes, and abilities—how many ways it gets them to participate in that experience of digging or of climbing. Can you reach the highest point in the playground both by climbing the rope and on a graded path that is accessible to a child using a wheelchair? That diversity of ways to participate really depends on understanding what you're great at, and that distinction in there makes it possible to find things that give people a way of participating with equity, with dignity, but it's not about that one solution having to be modified so that every possible contingency of human ability is considered. It's thinking about multiple ways that people will come into that environment and how they will use that space. “Designing for inclusion starts by recognizing exclusion” One of the most fundamental types of bias is, are we designing something that we ourselves could see? Are we designing something that we ourselves could hear or reach with our hands? One of the most fundamental biases is using our own abilities to design products for other people. Most of that design, at least in the years that I've worked in the industry, happens at a desk, in an office, under a certain type of lighting, in a certain type of environment—maybe not too loud, kind of quiet, or a by team that, for the most part, has pretty similar levels of vision or mobility. It is a real important thing to step back and think about not just how would this work for someone who is blind or has low vision or how would this work for someone doesn't have the use of both of their arms, but to think about how will this experience be used in a noisy, crowded bus? Or in a quiet library? Or a classroom with students with many different learning styles? Those kinds of biases really take a moment, we find with our teams, to just really sit and think about it for a moment. Then recognize who might be most excluded from using that experience. Who might have the greatest obstacles when using that product? We step back. We think about exclusion through, I'd say, three lenses of inclusion. The first lens would be physical ability. Is there something in terms of how we see, hear, touch, move that somebody would experience a barrier? The second one is cognitive—there's a lot to explore and learn there. Have we made the learning process for this new feature work for people with different learning styles, or is it all biased toward one learning style? Then the third one is social inclusion. Where in the world is this product being used? It's not just about language translation, but it's about cultural understanding.

The O’Reilly Design Podcast: Building bridges across disciplines, universal vs. inclusive design, and what playground design can teach us about inclusion.In this week’s Design Podcast, I sit down with Kat Holmes, principal design director, inclusive design at Microsoft. We talk about what she looks for in designers, working on the right problems to solve, and why both inclusive and universal design are important but not the same.Here are some highlights from our conversation: Thinking in systems, building bridges Broadly across Microsoft, I'll just say, there are so many different types of design challenges that we're working on. One of the things that consistently is true is that people look to take on some of the biggest challenges facing our society. There's a lot that comes across the plate of our designers at Microsoft. People who can meet those challenges with an open sense of collaboration and partnership, but also with a very human-led approach to those problems. Really being able to spend time with customers or even just observing people in environments. Not everybody needs to be a full-on researcher, but you do have to have the powers of observation. You have to have the power of human insight to some degree, or at least be able to develop that. Then, you need the ability to translate that into solutions that really, as I said earlier, address a sharp, pointed challenge that a person is having. That's broader across Microsoft. It's pretty wide statement. There's a lot of specialized skills. When it comes to inclusive design, one of the things that's most important is being able to think about broader systems. Thinking about things that are interconnected—if you change one thing at this end of the operating system, what are the downstream consequences and impacts of that? Because there needs to be a heightened awareness of the kinds of obstacles that are being either raised or lowered with every design decision that we make. Inclusive designers need to be thinking about that barrier specifically and help illuminate that for our partners across all product teams that are really driving quickly, but may not always see every consequence or obstacle that comes and goes. Another very important skill for a designer in this space is being able to build bridges across disciplines. To your question earlier about what does design look like at Microsoft, one of the things I'm most proud of and why I love working here is there's a strong emphasis on designing as an act, as a verb, as something that happens only when you have multiple disciplines in one space. There's designing as a way of working, unique and distinct from a designer with specific skills and a specific set of responsibilities. In a job here, when we hire, we’re looking for somebody who understands that kind of bridge building that's required to bring people into understanding the design mindset, the design application, design thinking—ways of reframing and looking newly at maybe very traditional problems or systems. That ability to build a bridge and help other people see as well how that designing journey and process can lead to a better result together is an incredibly important skill. Universal vs. inclusive If you design for everyone, no one is satisfied. It's one of the best and most common questions we get as we do inclusive design. There's an important distinction, I believe, to draw between universal design and inclusive design. Universal design, in a nutshell, could be summed up as one size fits all. It's taking a solution and finding many, many ways to adapt or ways to accommodate or add to to make that work for as many people as possible. Think of the curb cut. It’s certainly a great access enhancement, but you also have to think about the texture that's on the surface of the curb to make it distinguishable for people with low vision or who are blind, because curb cuts pose quite a serious safety risk for people who are unable to see them or notice the transition into the street. There's the chirping of the streetlights that also indicates when it's safe. There's a lot around that, trying to make that one curb cut, which increases access, safe and also accessible for a lot more people. When I think of universal design, it is incredibly important. There’s a long history and practice, especially in the built environment, but it is distinct from inclusive design. Inclusive design, in comparison, would consider one size fits one. The one-size-fits-one idea is really about how you adapt something that is plastic, that is flexible, that is malleable and adaptive, to fit not just an individual person’s abilities, but their contexts, their motivations for whatever they're trying to complete in that moment. One of my favorite examples is playgrounds. I worked with Susan Goltsman from MIG Consulting in San Francisco last year. One of the most important things I learned from Susan was that inclusive design is about creating a diversity of ways for people to participate in an experience so they have a sense of belonging in that place. When you think about a playground, you can look and observe and say ‘What's this playground really great at? Is this all about digging? Is it about climbing? Is it about swinging?’ Then look at how many different ways a truly inclusive playground will give children of all ages, sizes, and abilities—how many ways it gets them to participate in that experience of digging or of climbing. Can you reach the highest point in the playground both by climbing the rope and on a graded path that is accessible to a child using a wheelchair? That diversity of ways to participate really depends on understanding what you're great at, and that distinction in there makes it possible to find things that give people a way of participating with equity, with dignity, but it's not about that one solution having to be modified so that every possible contingency of human ability is considered. It's thinking about multiple ways that people will come into that environment and how they will use that space. “Designing for inclusion starts by recognizing exclusion” One of the most fundamental types of bias is, are we designing something that we ourselves could see? Are we designing something that we ourselves could hear or reach with our hands? One of the most fundamental biases is using our own abilities to design products for other people. Most of that design, at least in the years that I've worked in the industry, happens at a desk, in an office, under a certain type of lighting, in a certain type of environment—maybe not too loud, kind of quiet, or a by team that, for the most part, has pretty similar levels of vision or mobility. It is a real important thing to step back and think about not just how would this work for someone who is blind or has low vision or how would this work for someone doesn't have the use of both of their arms, but to think about how will this experience be used in a noisy, crowded bus? Or in a quiet library? Or a classroom with students with many different learning styles? Those kinds of biases really take a moment, we find with our teams, to just really sit and think about it for a moment. Then recognize who might be most excluded from using that experience. Who might have the greatest obstacles when using that product? We step back. We think about exclusion through, I'd say, three lenses of inclusion. The first lens would be physical ability. Is there something in terms of how we see, hear, touch, move that somebody would experience a barrier? The second one is cognitive—there's a lot to explore and learn there. Have we made the learning process for this new feature work for people with different learning styles, or is it all biased toward one learning style? Then the third one is social inclusion. Where in the world is this product being used? It's not just about language translation, but it's about cultural understanding.

In this episode, Kat Holmes, principal designer, and Bill Buxton, principal researcher, discuss design philosophy and why they believe the next breakthrough in tech will be a reinvention of the relationship between our devices.

Late Night Book Talk with Carolina's own Literary Goddess, Kristy Bock. Let's discuss all things romance. Book promotions, excerpts and the small things that make the romance novel industry what it is. Special Guest!! Kat Holmes will be here to discuss her book 'Voice In The Night'!!