Podcast appearances and mentions of elizabeth mccall

In this episode we welcome back Elizabeth McCall, who has been appointed Master Distiller of Woodford Reserve since our last conversation with her. From her early days as a Taste Test Technician in the sensory lab to her current role, Elizabeth reflects on her profound bond with Woodford Reserve and its significance in events like the Kentucky Derby. There's a ton of pressure that comes with being the official bourbon of the Derby and it's fitting that we're now releasing this as we come into Derby season once again. The episode explores the evolving bourbon culture and the challenge of connecting with both seasoned enthusiasts and newer consumers. Elizabeth highlights her innovative projects and other collaborations you've likely seen. The we dive into discussions about future releases and the balance between luxury and accessibility where Woodford Reserve plays a delicate balance Show Notes: Significance of Woodford Reserve at the Kentucky Derby Elizabeth McCall's rise to Master Distiller from sensory lab technician The art of tastings and engaging with diverse bourbon audiences Navigating traditions while appealing to the modern drinker Highlights of innovative Woodford Reserve projects Balancing luxury appeal with bourbon's heritage Support this podcast on Patreon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're shining a spotlight on one of the top contenders from the Coolest Thing Made in Kentucky tournament this year—Brown-Forman's Woodford Reserve Double Double Oaked!

For someone who is passionate about horses and bourbon there is one position that would be a dream to have and our guest has got it! When you think of horse races, there is only one: the Kentucky Derby. When you think of cocktails at horse races, there is only one - the Mint Julep. And what bourbon do you find in that Kentucky Derby Mint Julep? Woodford Reserve. As Vice President and Master Distiller of Woodford Reserve Bourbon, Elizabeth McCall calls the shots when defining the quality sensory standard to which every batch of Woodford Reserve must comply. What does it take to become the third Master Distiller ever at Woodford and one of the youngest distillers in the United States? I will let her tell you!Before we begin, you can always watch this episode on Youtube, plus all the other Lush Life episodes as well as a whole lot more; just head to youtube.com/@lushlifemanual.Also If you love the show, we would so appreciate your support! You can get our advice on anything to do with home bartending, where to drink in every major city, special recipes, plus a Lush Life mug! Just head to alushlifemanual.substack.com and sign up!The cocktail of the week is the Woodford Reserve Old Fashioned:INGREDIENTS 2 oz Woodford Reserve Bourbon.5 oz demerara simple syrup3 dashes of Angostura bitters large ice cubeorange peelMETHODPour Woodford Reserve Bourbon into your favorite glassAdd sugar syrup and bittersAdd iceStir for 10 secondsExpress orange oils & garnish with the orange peelYou'll find this recipe and all the cocktails of the week at alushlifemanual.com, plus links to most of the ingredients.Full Episode Details: https://alushlifemanual.com/woodford-reserve-with-elizabeth-mccall-----Become a supporter of A Lush Life Manual for as little as $5 - all you have to do is go to https://substack.com/@alushlifemanual.Lush Life Merchandise is here - we're talking t-shirts, mugs, iPhone covers, duvet covers, iPad covers, and more covers for everything! And more! Produced by Simpler MediaFollow us on Twitter and InstagramGet great cocktail ideas on PinterestNew episodes every Tuesday, usually!!

In this episode, we meet with Elizabeth McCall, the Master Distiller of Woodford Reserve, who leads a tasting that feels more like an art class than a lesson in Bourbon. Elizabeth shows us how pairing curated foods with Bourbon releases new flavors. And together, we experience how pairing a few good stories with Bourbon can unlock an unforgettable conversation.  Our greatest takeaway? Bourbon is more than a drink — it's a way to explore identity and history.  This episode also features the voices and palettes of our dear friend, Cyndi Gatterdam and our Producing Team. We hope you'll enjoy the warm and inviting atmosphere as we share stories over delicious Woodford Reserve Bourbon. Please visit www.lagralanespirits.org/episodes/woodford for shownotes, transcripts, and more.   Links: Guest Elizabeth McCall https://www.woodfordreserve.com/press-room/elizabeth-mccall/ https://www.woodfordreserve.com/ https://www.woodfordreserve.com/lifestyle/   Additional links + Special thanks to: WEP - https://weeditpodcasts.com/ Liam E. Allen (original music) - @Liamea97

Send us a Text Message.What if you were suddenly faced with a life-altering diagnosis? This week on Queer Voices, we have an intimate and heartfelt conversation with David Taffet, senior staff writer for the Dallas Voice and co-host of Lambda Weekly. David opens up about his recent diagnosis with Parkinson's disease, sharing the challenges he encountered with everyday tasks like handwriting and walking. Through his story, we also hear from host Bryan Hlavinka, who reveals his own experience with Parkinsonian symptoms, shedding light on the personal and communal support systems that play a crucial role in navigating such a condition.Shifting gears, we move from personal battles to communal triumphs with an insightful interview with Robert Wallace. Robert talks about the upcoming Pride Brunch fundraiser in Houston, which aims to support the Montrose Center. He shares the backstory of this significant event, his personal motivations rooted in honoring his uncle who succumbed to the AIDS epidemic, and the incredible growth and impact the brunch has had over the years. Expect exciting details about the event's entertainment, featuring performances by drag queens Cinnamon LaRue and Lucy Paradisco, and a panel discussion with the Montrose Center's new CEO, Avery Belyeu.We round out this week's episode by celebrating queer creativity and inclusivity. Deborah Moncrief-Bell engages with John Marullo about his political fantasy novel, "All the Dwellers Upon the Earth," discovering the queer magic that inspired its diverse characters. We also explore the concept of "Family of Choice," a notion familiar to many in the LGBTQ+ community. Elizabeth McCall from Station Theater joins us to discuss the transformative power of improv, highlighting special Pride Month shows with an all-queer cast. This episode promises to be an enriching mix of stories, support, and celebration of the vibrant and diverse LGBTQ+ community.Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:https://www.facebook.com/QueerVoicesKPFT/ andhttps://www.instagram.com/queervoices90.1kpft/

Carmen DeFalco down at the Woodford Reserve and sat down with Master Distiller Elizabeth McCall.

Episode 213 - Elizabeth McCall, Woodford Reserve + Kentucky Derby Memories by Michelle Mandro

This week we welcome Elizabeth McCall, the Master Distiller from Woodford Reserve back to the show to talk all things Kentucky Derby! We talk about how Woodford is the Presenting Sponsor of the Kentucky Derby, “The Greatest Two Minutes in Sports” and we talk about the release of the 2024 commemorative Derby bottle, featuring the artwork of Kentucky native Wylie Caudill, and of course we talk their new Woodford Reserve Kentucky Derby 150 Baccarat Edition! It's the Kentucky Derby go home show on this weeks Bourbon Showdown Podcast! 

Melissa Rift, Master Taster for Old Forester, joins us today to tell us why Old Forester is the *best* Bourbon for your home bar. What is a 'Master Taster?' Melissa trained under legendary distillers Chris Morris and Elizabeth McCall of Old Forester & Woodford Reserve and handles much of the quality control for Old Forester whiskies. Melissa also works on innovative projects, like their new 117 series. Why the Pairing Works:  Old Forester is the best bang for your buck on your back bar, but Melissa has also given us a 4-course meal with the "Whiskey Row" series Melissa's 4-Course Pairing Last Supper: Old Forester 1870. The fruits & florals of this whiskey pair perfectly with something citrusy like an arugula salad with parmesan cheese Old Forester 1897 Bottled- n-Bond . The woodsy, spicy, and earthy notes of this Bourbon will pair perfectly with a fatty cheese course, like burrata, and good crusty bread. The black pepper backbone will go perfectly with any fat, including charcuterie. Old Forester 1920 with prime rib! Going a little out of turn here, but it's time for a protein. This higher proof (115) cask strength whiskey has notes of salted dark chocolate and will pair well with the complexity of rare meat. Old Forester 1910 & banana bread pudding. This double barrel expression goes splendidly with any dessert, but the underlying banana tones of the 1910 will complement each other perfectly! What Makes These "Whiskey Row" Bourbons Special: Each of these whiskies mark a "First:" 1870 - The first whiskey released in a glass bottle 1897 - Old Forester's first Bottled-in-Bond 1910 - The first recorded double barrel expression, due to a major fire 1920 - the Prohibition bottle, 120 Proof. Learn more here: https://www.oldforester.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oldforester/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/what2drink/message

This week we welcome Elizabeth McCall, the NEW Master Distiller for Woodford Reserve to the show! Elizabeth has been a guest before and we are so happy to have her back on to discuss her new role as Master Distiller for the company. She takes Jesse through her career with Woodford Reserve, and what it takes to become Master Distiller. How not only is she overseeing quality and innovation and leading special releases, but she is also overseeing so much more of the process than you might think when you think about what the Master Distillers day to day responsibilities look like! On top of that she then walks Jesse through her first release as Master Distiller and they taste through the new Master's Collection Historic Barrel Entry offering. It's a great conversation and we can't congratulate Elizabeth enough on her new role and title and welcome her back to the show for this weeks Bourbon Showdown Podcast!

Fresh off being named the new Master Distiller of Woodford Reserve, Elizabeth McCall joins us to talk about what's next for the brand, learning under the former Master Distiller Chris Morris, expanding Woodford's production, sustainability in the whiskey industry, and how young people can get involved in the industry.

In this Episode of The Bourbon Life Podcast, The Bourbon Life Crew spends some time hanging out together, enjoying some great conversation and even better whiskies from around the world. They talk about the importance of keeping an open mind when it comes to trying whiskies from other countries; Mark shares his thoughts on the recent Bourbon Classic event in Louisville that he attended; and the Crew talks about the recent exciting news about Elizabeth McCall being named the new Master Distiller at Woodford Reserve (and drop a little teaser related to that news as well). They also taste and review several different whiskies from around the world, including Nikka From the Barrel Japanese Whiskey, Egan's Vintage Grain Irish Whiskey, and WhistlePig 12 Canadian Rye Whiskey. This Episode of The Bourbon Life Podcast is sponsored by Liquor Barn, Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey, The Stave Restaurant, Three Chord Bourbon, and District 7 Social. Check out all of our amazing sponsors online at:  www.liquorbarn.com     www.unclenearest.com www.thestavekentucky.com  www.threechordbourbon.com

Not too long ago, I had the pleasure of chatting with Chris Morris, Master Distiller at Woodford Reserve and we talked about his rise and the process of going from assistant under the legendary Lincoln Henderson to the Master Distiller role.  Two weeks ago, my email box held a message that another assistant was getting that honor of moving up to the Master Distiller role and today, its my honor of chatting with the new face of distilling at Woodford Reserve, Elizabeth McCall. Join me as we find out about her journey to this position and where her focus will be going forward.

Steve, Jeremy and Renee discuss the Elizabeth McCall's promotion to Master Distiller of Woodford Reserve. The Bourbon Show music (Whiskey on the Mississippi) is by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Important Links: ABV Network Shop: https://shop.abvnetwork.com/ YouTube: https://bit.ly/3kAJZQz Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theabvnetwork Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. Join the revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile on social media.

News und Informationen finden Sie in unserem Shop auf https://www.whisky.de/whisky/aktuelles/nachrichten.html 00:00 Whisky.de News 00:13 NEU: Bruichladdich Octomore 13.4 01:01 Gordon & MacPhail bring fünf neue Whiskys aus Private Collection auf den Markt 01:47 NEU: Old Perth PX 02:35 Powers kreiert den ersten 100 % irischen Rye Whiskey 03:11 Kurzzeitige Knappheit von Tullamore D.E.W. 03:52 Conor McGregor erweitert Sortiment - Proper No. Twelve Irish Apple 04:32 Elizabeth McCall wird neue Master Distillerin von Woodford Reserve 05:14 NEU: Heaven Hill Heritage Collection 2023 05:51 Seltener Whisky könnte aus einem 170 Jahre alten Schiffswrack geborgen werden 06:44 Bluegrass Distillers plant einen 8 mio. Dollar Standort in Kentucky 07:33 Buffalo Trace Distillery weiht neues Brennhause ein 08:06 Suntory investiert 77 mio. Dollar in Yamazaki und Hakushu 09:22 Kurzinterview mit Stewart Walker, dem Distillery Manager von Fettercairn

It's This Week in Bourbon for February 10th 2023. Woodford Reserve Names A New Master Distiller. Blue Run Innovates The Private Barrel Program. Heaven Hill Releases A 20-year Corn Whiskey.Show Notes: Kentucky Bourbon Trail eclipsed two million visits California has introduced a bill that allows spirits-based RTDs to be sold in more retailers Shortbarrel announced the acquisition of the famous Old Fourth Distillery Woodford Reserve named Elizabeth McCall as Master Distiller Blue Run puts a new spin on the launch of their private barrel program Heaven Hill Heritage Collection 20-Year-Old Kentucky Straight Corn Whiskey The first national Barrel Proof expression of Bernheim Original Kentucky Straight Wheat Whiskey A release known as Blanton's Char No. 4 2022 Limited Edition is popping up @kentuckybourbontrail @shortbarrelwhiskey @oldfourthdistillery @woodfordreserve @heavenhillbrands @heavenhilldistillery @bluerunspirits Support this podcast on Patreon

This week, Tony and Fingers reviewed The West Tampa Tobacco Co. White Toro Cigar And Woodford Reserve Bourbon. Tony Katz and Fingers Malloy (http://eatdrinksmokeshow.com) host Eat! Drink! Smoke! (http://facebook.com/eatdrinksmoke) recorded live at Blend Bar Cigar (http://blendbarcigar.com) in Indianapolis, IN. Tony and Woodford Reserve Assistant Master Distiller Elizabeth McCall sat down to talk about how Woodford handled COVID-19, and how the pandemic changed the bourbon industry. Elizabeth also shared some news about the future of Woodford Reserve. Before the conversation ended, they did a bourbon tasting -- specifically the Woodford Reserve Master's Collection Batch Proof Kentucky Straight Bourbon. Other topics this week include: It's Halloween, so there are candy reviews! Halloween candy prices are getting scary. One chocolate bar brand costs 53% more than last year. Fingers is making his garage more "cigar friendly" All that and much more in episode 209 of Eat! Drink! Smoke! Follow Eat! Drink! Smoke! Twitter: https://twitter.com/GoEatDrinkSmoke | @GoEatDrinkSmoke Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/eatdrinksmoke | @eatdrinksmoke IG: https://www.instagram.com/eatdrinksmokepodcast | @EatDrinkSmokePodcast The Podcast is Free! Click Below! On Apple Podcasts (http://bit.ly/eatdrinksmoke) On Amazon Music (https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/09697f78-947d-4008-92f6-18f6b241774a/Eat-Drink-Smoke) On Stitcher (https://www.stitcher.com/show/eat-drink-smoke) On Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/6Qf6qSmnpb5ctSMEtaB6lp)

In this episode, Matt talks to Elizabeth McCall, Assistant Master Distiller at Woodford Reserve. Elizabeth is the second generation of her family to work in the bourbon industry and one of the youngest female distillers in the United States. She followed in her mother's footsteps starting as a sensory expert and working in the quality department. McCall has a master's degree from the University of Louisville and has been a member of Brown- Forman's R&D Department since 2009. She works directly with Master Distiller Chris Morris and R&D on innovation and the development of new products within Woodford Reserve. If you want to try any of the spirits Matt discussed on the show you can ORDER ONLINE or from the BIG RED LIQUORS APP for Curbside Pickup Service. It's as easy as 1,2,3! Start Your Order -  bigredliquors.com Simply select your store, browse, search for products, and start a CURBSIDE order. Your store will notify you when it is ready for pickup. Best of all, our NO TOUCH curbside will leave you with peace of mind and the great products you want ASAP.

This week we continued our exploration of Women in Whiskey with our spot light on Elizabeth McCall at Woodford Reserve!  We also talk about Moon bases, weather rays, and CYBERMEN!

Our favorite spirit is Kentucky Bourbon. To be more precise: We enjoy Woodford Reserve the MOST. Our kids sip it, our parents love it, and we tend to serve it to our guests and friends more than any other adult beverage. We have history and take our bourbon drinking very seriously. Back in 2019, before the world shut down, my husband Craig and I, and two of our best friends, went to Kentucky to discover a new destination, follow The Kentucky Bourbon Trail and to learn more about how bourbon is created.  Is a trip to the Kentucky Bourbon Trail on your list too? Ever since our grown kids came home from college loving this delicious Kentucky spirit, I have been paying attention. Our kids' enthusiasm for all drinks made with bourbon was intoxicating and persuasive. Fast forward several years later, my favorite way to indulge is now a Manhattan or an Old Fashioned because I love the aroma and smooth flavor of high-quality bourbon. My husband and I toured The Kentucky Bourbon Trail with our friends Brad and Troy; we visited smaller distilleries, dined at excellent restaurants, and thoroughly enjoyed our visit to Woodford Reserve, where our bourbon of choice is carefully crafted. The art of making fine bourbon first took place on the site of the Woodford Reserve Distillery, a National Historic Landmark, in 1812. The perfectly balanced taste of their Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey comprises more than 200 detectable flavor notes, from bold grain and wood to sweet aromatics, spice, and fruit & floral notes. Mmm, delicious Kentucky Bourbon! During our visit in 2019, we sipped, listened, and toured Woodford Reserve and had the time of our lives. Never in a million years did I dream I would create a podcast and have the opportunity to interview Master Distiller Chris Morris and Assistant Master Distiller Elizabeth McCall. Dreams do come true, my friends; I am living proof. (pun intended) Chris Morris is Master Distiller for Brown-Forman Corporation, the seventh since the company began in 1870. A Louisville native, he has spent his working life in the bourbon industry. Chris is responsible for maintaining the award-winning taste of the whiskies produced at the Woodford Reserve and Old Forester Distilleries.  He is also one of three generations of his family to work at Brown-Forman and is a member of the Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame.   Elizabeth McCall, CSS (Certified Specialist of Spirits), is the second generation of her family to work in the bourbon industry and one of the youngest female distillers in the United States. When she first began working at Brown Forman, assuming the role she is in today was never the goal. Realizing the excellent opportunity for employment the company offered, Elizabeth followed in her mother's footsteps, starting as a sensory expert and working in the quality department.  McCall has a master's degree from the University of Louisville and has been a member of Brown-Forman's R&D Department since 2009. Her ongoing devotion to quality, and interest in all things spirits, eventually led her to become Master Taster in 2015 and, in 2018, Assistant Master Distiller of Woodford Reserve.  Today she works directly with Master Distiller Chris Morris and R&D on the innovation and development of new products within Woodford Reserve.  In this episode: Personal insights from the experts! Plus, great stories! What is The Kentucky Bourbon Trail? What happened in 1990? What is a fermenter? Red & Blue Corn & Bourbon? ( A super fun story) Innovation at Woodford Reserve Plus, so much more! How Woodford Reserve was a pioneer in culinary pairings with bourbon What is so magical and timeless about Woodford Reserve? This episode is the first of four devoted to Kentucky and The Kentucky Bourbon Trail. Don't miss a new episode every two weeks.    Link to Woodford Reserve => HERE Kentucky Bourbon Trail Trip Details How to Find Adventure & Thrive  in the Empty Nest – Suzanne's E-Book My Amazon Travel Store – Suzanne's Favorite Must-Haves Hear No Evil Media Podcast Audio Production by Erik Hulslander 

Derby season is upon us, and this week Elizabeth McCall and Chris Morris join the band to chat about all things bourbon, horses and what they have in common (hint: it just might be limestone). Plus, the real reason everyone loves the Kentucky Derby: hats.Please SUBSCRIBE and RATE the show if you can. Join us each week as we sit down with a wide range of hospitality and spirits experts from around the world to discuss everything that impacts our business. FOLLOW US ON INSTAGRAM:Damon Boelte @DamonBoelteSother Teague @CreativeDrunkGreg Benson @100ProofGregSpeakeasy Podcast @SpeakeasyPodcastFOLLOW US ON TWITTER: Sother Teague @CreativeDrunk SpeakeasyRadio @SpeakeasyRadio#HRN10Years #DrinkingOnTheRadioHeritage Radio Network is a listener supported nonprofit podcast network. Support The Speakeasy by becoming a member!The Speakeasy is Powered by Simplecast.

In honor of Women's History Month, I teamed with my friends at The Whiskey Lifestyle to celebrate just a few of the women who make the whiskeys we love via our first-ever Women in Whiskey series. Our next guest is Woodford Reserve Assistant Master Distiller Elizabeth McCall.  

This week we welcome Chris Morris and Elizabeth McCall the Master Distiller and Assistant Master Distiller of Woodford Reserve onto the show. We talk about the history of Woodford, how Chris came to be their Master Distiller and all of his contributions to the whiskey industry. We also talk about how Elizabeth got into the whiskey game, what she's learned from Chris and what she has in store for the future. It is an amazing episode and I thoroughly enjoyed talking to the masterminds behind one of the most innovative brands in whiskey today.

The Kentucky Derby is May 1st, so who better to talk to than our friends at Woodford Reserve! We sit down with Assistant Master Distiller, Elizabeth McCall, as she takes through their flagship bourbon, Woodford Rye, Woodford Wheat, Woodford Malt, and Woodford Double Oaked. We also discuss their highly coveted Kentucky Derby lineup, as well as the story behind their $1,000 Kentucky Derby Mint Julep!Learn More:Woodford Reserve: http://woodfordreserve.comBlue Collar Bourbon: https://linktr.ee/bluecollarbourbonLasting Media: https://linktr.ee/lastingmediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

And....we're BACK, talking about some of my favorite subjects: bourbon, very fancy thousand dollar mint juleps, and the Kentucky Derby! This week's guests are Chris Morris and Elizabeth McCall, the Master Distiller and Assistant Master Distiller, respectively of Woodford Reserve, the official bourbon and Presenting Sponsor of the Kentucky Derby. On the eve of “The Greatest Two Minutes in Sports” I invite you to take a moment, pour out a little Woodford, and pre-game with us. This week's featured cocktail is the traditional Derby Day cocktail: Mint Julep 2 ounces Woodford Reserve Straight Bourbon Whiskey 1/2 ounce simple syrup 3 Fresh Mint Leaves Crushed Ice Powdered Sugar - optional.   Express the essential oils in the mint and rub them inside the glass. Add simple syrup, bourbon, and crushed ice to the glass and stir. Garnish with more ice, fresh mint, and powdered sugar.   Woodford Reserve Link: Website   Bit by a Fox Links: Blog Instagram Facebook Twitter Podcast Music

Assistant Master Distiller Woodford Reserve Assistant Master Distiller Elizabeth McCall, CSS (Certified Specialist of Spirits) is the second generation of her family to work in the bourbon industry and one of the youngest female distillers in the United States. She followed in her mother's footsteps starting as a sensory expert and working in the quality department. McCall has a master's degree from the University of Louisville and has been a member of Brown-Forman's R&D Department since 2009. She works directly with Master Distiller Chris Morris and R&D on innovation and the development of new products within Woodford Reserve. Additionally, she interacts one-on-one with consumers through personal barrel selections and education on sensory methodology and works to define the quality sensory standard to which every batch of Woodford Reserve must comply. When Elizabeth is not using her expertise at the distillery, she is passionate about her family, horses and being involved in her community. She sits on the board of Louisville nonprofit Green Hill Therapy where her horse, Cody Ko, serves in the hippotherapy program. Elizabeth also enjoys spending quality time with her husband, Matt, and dog Beasley.

Brian & Trisha talked to Elizabeth McCall, Woodford Reserve Assistant Master Distiller.

Best Kentucky Hello w/ Woodford Reserve Double Oaked with Elizabeth McCall and Jennifer Arundale

Elizabeth McCall, Assistant Master Distiller at Woodford Reserve joins the band to talk, what else, whiskey and chocolate AKA the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for that special someone.  Don’t forget to click SUBSCRIBE and RATE the show if you can. 

Join us as we sit down with Master Distiller, Chris Morris, and Assistant Master Distiller, Elizabeth McCall from Woodford Reserve. We talk about Woodford Reserve, the Master's Collection series, and we taste through the newest and oldest release from Woodford Reserve, the Very Fine Rare Bourbon. Cheers y'all!

Adam speaks with Zidanelia Arcidiacono, Pinot Noir winemaker at Sonoma-Cutrer, and Elizabeth McCall, Assistant Master Distiller at Woodford Reserve, about their collaboration on a bourbon barrel-finished Pinot Noir. Please send any suggestions or requests for future Conversations to podcast@vinepair.com. Thanks for listening, and be well. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Bob is joined by the master distillers at Woodford Reserve, Chris Morris and Elizabeth McCall, to discuss the new release from their Master's Collection, the Very Fine Rare Bourbon. This blend of barrels includes the oldest whiskey ever released by Woodford Reserve: 17-year-old bourbon, distilled in 2003, Morris' first year as Master Distiller. We walk through the idea behind both the whiskey and the new bottle that contains it, and Elizabeth teases her favorite film for a future bonus episode. Film & Whiskey Podcast. New episodes every Monday. Film & Whiskey Instagram Film & Whiskey Facebook Film & Whiskey Twitter Call-in Line: (216) 800-5923 Email us! Join our Discord channel! Theme music: "New Shoes" by Blue Wednesday --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/filmwhiskey/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/filmwhiskey/support

From small batch to large scale, there’s serious skill required to consistently distill quality spirits of any category, so what truly is the difference between craft and commercial? Associate Managing Editor of Print Layla Schlack speaks with industry insiders Elizabeth McCall, Samara B. Davis and Tim Wiggins to get the lowdown.

On today's episode of All in the Industry®, Shari Bayer is joined by Elizabeth McCall, Assistant Master Distiller of Woodford Reserve, premium small batch bourbon whiskey based in Kentucky. Elizabeth, a CSS (Certified Specialist of Spirits), is the second generation of her family to work in the bourbon industry and one of the youngest female distillers in the United States. She followed in her mother’s footsteps starting as a sensory expert and working in the quality department. Elizabeth has a master’s degree from the University of Louisville and has been a member of Brown-Forman’s R&D Department since 2009. She works directly with Master Distiller Chris Morris and R&D on innovation and the development of new products within Woodford Reserve. Today's show also features Shari's PR tip to find the silver lining; Industry News discussion on COVID-19 and its impact on our industry; and Solo Dining/Delivery experience from Roberto Caporuscio's Don Antonio in Hells Kitchen, NYC. Listen at Heritage Radio Network; subscribe/rate/review our show at iTunes, Stitcher or Spotify. Follow us @allindustry. Thanks for being a part of All in the Industry®. Stay safe and well. Image courtesy of Elizabeth McCall.All in the Industry is powered by Simplecast.  

Elizabeth McCall has been a member of Brown-Forman’s Research & Development Department since 2009. In her new role as Assistant Master Distiller, Elizabeth will continue working under the direction of Master Distiller Chris Morris on the innovation and the development of new products within Woodford Reserve. She is the second generation of her family to work in the bourbon industry. She followed in her mother’s footsteps after earning her master’s degree from the University of Louisville by starting as a sensory expert and working in Brown-Forman’s R&D Department starting in 2009. As Master Taster, Elizabeth helped develop tasting notes for various Woodford Reserve expressions. Additionally, she worked to define the sensory standard to which every batch of Woodford Reserve must comply. When Elizabeth is not using her expertise at the distillery, she is passionate about her family, horses and being involved in her community. She sits on the board of Louisville nonprofit Green Hill Therapy where her horse, Cody Ko, serves in the hippotherapy program. Elizabeth also enjoys spending quality time with her husband, Matt, and dog Beasley.

John Little and John Foster of Smooth Ambler are good friends of the show. We’ve had them on before and they’ve been doing a lot of stuff recently to keep their audiences engaged. They have a new video series, divulge their plans for future whiskey production, and talk about their latest launch of their MGP based Old Scout. Tune in to hear their take on what’s happened to American Whiskey in the past 2 years. Show Partners: Find out what it’s like to taste whiskey straight from the barrel with Barrell Craft Spirits. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Distillery 291 is an award winning, small batch whiskey distillery located in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Learn more at Distillery291.com. Show Notes: KDA Press Release: https://kybourbon.com/2-barrels-for-every-kentuckian-distillers-top-9-million-barrels-for-first-time-in-modern-era/ This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about blind tastings. Tell us about your video series on YouTube. What's been happening in the past two years? When are you going to use the new make? What is the game plan for Rye? What's the plan for the American Whiskey? Let's talk about sourced whiskey. Do you see Big Level as always evolving? Do you consider yourselves a craft distiller? What impact has Smooth Ambler made in West Virginia? What's the Whiskey Wagon? What benefits have you experienced from the Pernod Ricard deal? Where does the name Smooth Ambler come from? 0:00 We can play a game of like, which john is not wearing pants right now. 0:04 Neither of us are. 0:18 Welcome back, everybody. This is Episode 227 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny. And we've got just a little bit of news to run through. And that's because last week, I forgot to report that the Kentucky distillers Association came out with a new press release that was pretty impactful. And that's that they are announcing that there are now two barrels for every Kentucky and aging in Kentucky last year by filling more than 2.1 million barrels of bourbon and aging 9.1 million total barrels of spirits. That is now the record of the highest inventory in the past 52 years that has been kept by the KDA. And this is the first time since 1967, that distilleries have failed more than 2 million barrels of bourbon 1:00 production has skyrocketed more than 350% since the turn of the century, triggering a $2.3 billion building boom expanding production and warehouse capabilities and growing the tourism experience that you have seen that is now significantly boosting Kentucky's tourism profile. But distilling still remains one of the highest tax of all 532 industries in the state and distillers this year are paying a record $25 million and barrel taxes, which they say is discriminatory tax that is going to hamper growth and investment. You can read more about taxes and its impact even more with tariffs and safety and responsibility with the links to the press release in our show notes. After winning the 2019 World Series last month, Washington Nationals first baseman Ryan Zimmerman decided to celebrate with his favorite drink. Of course you know it bourbon. He had a group of friends that spent the weekend in Kentucky choosing their own personal selection of Woodford Reserve and 2:00 Zimmerman said he planned to celebrate the World Series by gifting a bottle of Woodford Reserve of his personal selection to all of his teammates and also is going to give them this friends as well as other people that came to Kentucky and also for other wedding gifts down the future. You can check out Woodford Reserve social media for the pictures from his visit where he got to hang out with who's been on the show before assistant master distiller Elizabeth McCall heaven Hill is unveiled a $17.5 million expansion at the bourbon Heritage Center in Bardstown and this now includes new tasting rooms, interactive experiences, and much more. The expansion which is only phase one of a multi year multi million dollar project is marked by three new tasting rooms, the Fitzgerald room, the library, and the founders room, all which look out on the Kentucky countryside. There are now two exhibits featuring the story of the Man of Steel. He credits as the father of bourbon, Elijah Craig, and the larceny exhibit where you can learn more about Johnny Fitzgerald. Lastly, guests can get 3:00 More immerse themselves by doing it all new you do bourbon experience. And this allows you to be a quality control agent and heaven hill where you get to look at bourbon in the microscope, learn how to nose taste bourbon in bottle and label your own bourbon to take home. But there's still more to come as they just added a roof top restaurant and bar that overlooks all the barrel warehouses. You can plan your trip now by booking your experience at heaven Hill calm. This past weekend, Ryan and Fred were invited to emcee the auction at the bourbon Crusaders barrel through hunger event. This is an annual event where the incredible single barrels and other older bottles get offered up for charity. And there's a few special barrels that went up this year for auction. First is a nine year will that went for $55,000. Next is the oldest private selection of four roses bourbon ever, that one for $65,000 and a very unique single barrel of EH Taylor that we've know if you're been around long enough 4:00 Never seen any more. It's only happened a few times on rare occasion but that went for $75,000. There a few more barrels overall as well as other bottles, but this event in total, raised $375,000 for God's Pantry and dare to care food banks. This event happens in Louisville every year so be on the lookout to purchase your tickets when 2020 rolls around. Now for today's show, we've had the John's a smooth Ambler on and you can catch those episodes back on 79 and one to four or you can go to bourbon pursuit calm, sort by distillery and click on smooth Ambler. We love having these guys on because they're fun, light hearted and very transparent on how they operate. Definitely what we would call role models of the bourbon whiskey industry. Now here's a quick message from Joe over barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 4:53 Hi, this is Joe Beatrice from barrell craft spirits. Tasting whiskey straight from the barrel was truly a life changing moment for me in 2013 5:00 I launched barrell craft spirits so everyone could have the experience of tasting whiskey at cask strength. Live two spirits with barrell bourbon. 5:09 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. If you've been watching my YouTube channel, you know about my Pappy versus the field series. Well, I want to take that a little step further. What I'm doing is is I'm tasting these whiskeys blind up against Pappy Van Winkle, which is largely heralded by many to be an incredible iconic bourbon that people spend booze and money on. I have this belief that what you taste one day, you may not taste the next day. And that belief was proven true in the first two episodes of Pappy versus the field. And one week I picked Pappy Van Winkle to be my favorite out of the flight which had some heavy hitters in there like old forester birthday bourbon, and then the next week, I pick Pappy Van Winkle to be dead last now. 6:00 The week that I picked it dead last, it's worth noting that I did come off a vacation. I had been traveling a lot, and I wasn't really consuming a lot of bourbon. So my palate was, I would say more was fresher, cleaner, less hardened by, you know, bourbon tastings and days previous and the first time I had tasted the field. And so you have one piece of evidence that you do indeed taste differently every single day. And then in my comments section, a geneticists wrote me and said, You're absolutely right, and that your taste buds are like fingerprints. So everybody has different taste buds, and I find this whole concept fascinating. Now, it's worth pointing out that for years, I have written reviews and I have stated that I believe that you really shouldn't, you shouldn't give a score unless you've tasted it three times and that way you can 7:00 Really make sure and confirm those tasting notes. I've gotten busier. And it's more difficult to tastings three times. And so you don't see as many scores from me as you have in years past, but I want everybody to do this experiment on their own. Find a bottle of bourbon that you really enjoy, and you taste frequently. And I want you to taste it on three different days in three different weeks and just jot down your notes, tell me what you're feeling what you're tasting, etc, etc. I think what we might find here is we might find one of the great puzzles in not just bourbon, but really everything. Why is it one day you want a hamburger? And the next day you want to talk? Oh, why is it some days? I think the Big Mac is the most beautiful, delicious thing in the entire world. And there are other times that it makes me want to hurl, you know so I think we, as humans, we have this incredible fluctuation of what we want on a constant basis. 8:00 I want to nail it down for us in bourbon. I'm going to find out what days that I like certain Bourbons and what days I do not. And so this this experiment begins and I hope you will join me on this journey. So that's this week's above the char. If you want to follow me on this journey, make sure you're subscribing to my YouTube channel. Just go to YouTube and search Fred Minnick. And if you have an idea for above the char hit me up on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook. Just look for Fred manic until next week. Cheers 8:38 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon getting here talking to some of the guests that we've actually had on the show before but we're here wanting to get an update to kind of see what's been happening because the last time we talked to the John's of smooth Ambler we were kind of talking before the show started and I was looking back and, you know, we talked to Joe 9:00 Little it was back on episode 79 before we start even hitting that, that three digit count back in December of 2016. And we talked to john foster back for a few minutes, it was part of a series of interviews that were taking place at whiskey live that were in Louisville, back in July of 2017 is when that one was released. So, you know, coming here today is really an opportunity for us to kind of get an idea of like, what's, what's new, what's happening, what's been changing, you know, they got bought out, are they driving Porsches and Masada is everywhere nowadays, right? So it's, it's it's going to be interesting to kind of see like, what the influx of capital and everything like that is really doing. We've known for a while that the MGP days of the old scout brand had been dwindling down and now they're revamping and something new and so we'll kind of get an idea of like, what the differences and where the go forward mentality is. We've got a lot of fun questions and a lot of good catch up to kind of see what's been going on with with me 10:00 Ambler out on the West Virginia side of the side of the nation over here so I'm happy to do welcome back on the show we've got both of the John's here so john little the CEO and head distiller and john foster the National Director of Sales and Marketing fellas, welcome back. Thanks for having us, man. It's gonna be back. Yeah, that'd be back a lot of changes mere into since the last time we spoke. You know it i mean it's it's been crazy it's it's it's finally I think it's like finally happening. People start taking podcast a little more seriously. So it's like I feel like I feel like we finally made it at this point. I don't want to seem like I'm kissing up here but people say good podcast seriously. There you go. Yeah. 10:42 And so but you guys also you do something fun as well. You guys do your own kind of like video series that you post on Facebook and YouTube. You want to talk about that one a little bit? Yeah, that kind of started is really a couple things. It was it was 10:58 the idea of sorta 11:00 Talking to talking to people and talking to customers the way that john and i sort of normally shuck and jive when we're together and to talk about 11:13 let people have a little insight into our brand and what we're about in, in our personalities and kind of do something different. You know, it's like, what what, what can we do that other people maybe are not doing or maybe, maybe won't do, which is, you know, put themselves out there and answer these silly questions about you know, what would you rather be a ninja or a pirate or, you know, what's the proper way of installing a roll of toilet paper? And you women have been we've been having fun with it. It's got a huge, huge reaction. And, you know, we'll we'll get around to talking about whiskey eventually. But you guys are doing a pretty good job with that already. And we thought you know that that end of the spectrum is covered. So let's, let's answer the real hard pressing questions. Yeah. 12:00 Would you rather fight a horse sized duck or duck size horse? Right, exactly right? 12:07 things that are really going to be important, those are the topics we want to discuss 12:12 here around the distillery like that, that dumb shit comes up all the time, you know, 12:18 john and i walk in the bathroom, the toilet papers installed incorrectly. And so we have to have a big company meeting and review the proper way to install the toilet paper or, you know, like, just that kind of stuff comes up here all the time, and we just thought it'd be a little little slice of that and it that'll keep going and just keep get better. It reminds me of just like, like Seinfeld a little bit, you know, you're trying to find just like the humor in everyday life that you deal with and try to make it make it like the really the big topic of what it is. Yeah, well, you know, the most recent one that we did, involved, involved quite a bit of bad language that was bleeped out and of course, we 13:00 passed it through through our legal department, let them look at it. And at that point, I realized that it really didn't matter to me whether they allowed us to do it or not. I was just satisfied that me and john had forced this billion dollar, you know, thousand dollar an hour legal team to sit down and watch, sit down and have to watch this thing and analyze it. were like, just that alone is worth the price of admission. 13:24 I mean, that's, that's awesome. Because we don't have a legal team here. We just we basically sit there and we record we're like, all right, is this gonna piss anybody off? Because 13:35 we understand there were enough podcast discussing, but you know, what makes what makes the, at least in my opinion, what makes a video interesting in the in our world is is not necessarily the discussion about the whiskey. It's the discussion is the story that makes it interesting, right? 13:55 I think you can do a review of whiskey to a fairly short thing and it's an ad All right, but the stories are what 14:00 I really enjoy whatever that is whether it's a personal struggle or finding history about, you know, how, how a brand came to be or, or, or some history about how the whiskey came to be. And so that's really what we did. And we felt like there was enough of that out there. And, of course, it was hard for, you know, for guys like us to have our own brand and to talk about just us all the time. So we decided just to do something that was a little entertaining, right? There was not so much stuff and so much about the whiskey. And there's plenty of people already doing the story. So, you know, like, you guys, so we thought we would just do something a little bit funny. That was kind of a break from the norm and let people see inside about the silly stuff that we talked about here or, yes, it's a good way to do it. And a lot of that is serious whiskey made by mostly serious people. 14:47 That you know, we're we take our business very seriously. We take the quality we put in the bottle very, very seriously. We take it very seriously that that hopefully people enjoy what we do, but we sure as hell don't take ourselves too seriously. Well, that's good. I mean, 15:00 is really what this is all about, you know, the idea of when we started this podcast to was to was to really bring the personalities behind the brands. And and that's something that you all have been doing for a long time, because you've got, you know, of course, you've got dedicated Facebook groups that are all about smooth Ambler. And you come on there and you'll talk Exactly. I mean, you make you have fun with the community, right? The community that's built around it. And you're also very transparent in what you do. Whether that's somebody that says something on one other form, you know, I know I've seen john in there, and we'll go and correct them or anything like that and be like, no, this is exactly what's happening. Right. And so what you're doing is, is providing a good value to the customer base. And not only that is we think of a customer base, we think of like what the Facebook groups really are. And that's like, it's like the one percenters of bourbon. Right? Let's be real. Yeah, right. Then we sure sure it's an important 1% but you're right. There's for everybody that knows me and john and you and, and and knows every little thing about 16:00 Whatever we put the bottle there's a bunch of people that don't know any of that stuff. And it's just a delicious whiskey that they like. 16:07 So let's let's kind of talk about the whiskey and the brand and kind of what's been happening in the past like two years. Because we've had a few different releases, there was some drainage of the MTP stock. So kind of talk about really like, where, what the timeline of what's been happening here in the past few years. We've been making whiskey for a long time, and we started sourcing old scout in 2011. And, you know, we never dreamed that the amount of whiskey that we own was something that we could actually sell. I'm going to be quite honest with you. When we first started sourcing whiskey it was, I was, I think the most we ever had at one time was about 3800 barrels. And I never imagined that we could sell 3800 barrels. Turns out, it was easier than we thought. 16:53 It happened quicker than we ever imagined. Do You Do you remember the cost that you paid for for those NG 17:00 barrels when you first started. Yeah, they were I mean, I think we had barrels as low as maybe, you know, $650 as high as we can haul money for them but even back then they were 950 bucks is probably a $900 average or something I think. I think I'll work that out one time for Fred minute on story. thing was about 900 bucks was the average and higher prices than that to the crazy crazy ridiculously low prices, given what the prices of barrels go for now, and that's a that's another subject I once had an offer to buy 10,000 barrels and turned them down. The most costly mistake that we ever made that I ever made, and all of us a lot of money. In hindsight, thank thankfully my business partners only laugh about it and don't feel bad. 17:48 pretty lucky about that. Yeah, I mean, that's what we we all kind of see like the MGP priceless nowadays. And yeah, you can't even get any h doc and the stuff that they do have. That's only just a couple of years. 18:00 result. It's outrageous. And so it's it's it's very very hard I think for a lot of people to look at sourcing today is like the main part of their business too. Yeah you know so you're right and it has crazy we're we feel fortunate that years so our business was climbing you know like this and we were buying like this right there was it was it was climbing exponentially and we were buying a much much smaller pace and and that that really came to hurt us right we can we feel the thought we had some deals throughout the years to acquire more barrels wants the market got got hotter and all those things kind of fell through. And so really what happened isn't about to that we were that's why we never really slow the pace that much. We kind of went from was like two steps. We went from wide open to Okay, maybe we'll slow it down a little bit too. We just cut it off. And the reality of it is that we never could just never found that that stop. So in about 2016 we pretty much stopped selling all of the old scout that was old scout 19:00 Everybody calls seven, but we never call it about that. We just call it old scout bourbon. And we had old scouts in. And then we had a old scout rye and pretty much all of them just stop. And then we transition to some whiskey that we had for a while, which is the old scout American was. And so the in terms of old Scout, we had a bunch of things right old Scott was never intended to do what it is done. I think when we first bought the barrels, we were we had bought the whiskey thinking that it was like antique shopping for whiskey. So we would go out and find some really cool barrels. Now very similar to kind of what what you guys have done with this thing. Are you going to find a barrel here in a barrel here, we were going to do it on a larger scale, but the idea was to about 40 years, 50 years at there and 100 a year and that's kind of how we were going to go to market. And what happened is that it just it was really well received. And so we were trying to take advantage of a situation that we had fallen into amongst and and that's kind of what started the the part of the old scout. Now we're in a position that sort of 20:00 About that, that was in 2011 was when we first started doing the started selling old scout. And of course, we stopped selling and 16. So in about 14, we started buying whiskey at New make new make contracts, and we would buy it whenever we could afford it. And then over the years we've gotten some more steady purchases and then of course with the promoters transaction, we've entered into larger new make contracts as well as growing our own plan. So that's why old scout is being reintroduced, is because in 14 we bought we, we bought old scout products as we make so the products that we're buying are not spot purchase, we differentiate between a new made contract and product that's already on the market. So you either have new made deals, you have spot purchase, and those are not spot purchase. These are products that we bought under contract as new money. Okay, so it's the progress is happening, right? It's there. So where do you kind of see the 21:00 I guess the tipping point of when you're going to start bringing in some of your new make because I think that you had been doing that with big level and some other ones you were kind of introducing your own stuff, aren't you? Not in contradiction? I think that was as well. Yeah. So so all scout bourbon, the old scout bourbon that we had for several years and and unfortunately eventually ran out of we just ran out of stocks that's being relaunched and re released this fall at the same age at which we first bottled it and the same proof at which we first bottle it. So it's five and a half years old, 99 proof and that'll that'll return to the marketplace of this fall and that of yours that that's based on five years. That's based on what john was saying. Whiskey we purchased in in 2014. Right, I got you now. Yeah, the American whiskey that we've had for a while will eventually be will eventually go away. The old scout the high rise 22:01 We'll come back in a 99 proof. And we'll also have a little bit of a custom pick a barrel program, also, as we used to do in the past, with that whiskey that will return later in later in the fall or early winter, this year as well. So on the on the sourced end of things, the old scouts coming back on the homemade stuff, a big level will will continue as not highly allocated, but at least partially allocated. It's not as readily available as for example contradiction is and it's getting a little older, you know, as as well, but that will continue this year. So really, all three of the families, as we talked about them are all going to continue to roll into into 2020. The old Scott Bourbons back contradiction continues to grow and be a healthy part of our 23:00 brand and as well as the homemade stuff and the level plus gift shop stuff. Yeah, absolutely. I mean and you mentioned the ryan there because there's a lot of diehard rye folks out you know you know that you've you've got a you've got a big consumer base of these these Ramblers that that love to collect and love to the bodies and a lot of them have the those old rise that are on there so kind of talk about what the game plan is for that. So we come from first of all contradiction is the biggest focus of what we do. Like the fact that it is what we think it's a delicious whiskey is now at a proof that's in price that are easily accessible. So it used to be 100 proof in about $50 bottle. Now it's 92 proof and it's a $40 bottle. And we one of the reasons we like it is because it gives us the ability to scale up and we still have a small plant even compared to some of these whatever mid majors some of these new places right the riffs or rabbit holes of the world. 24:00 You know, we're, we're small compared to those guys. And so the contradiction gives us the ability to scale up. 24:07 We The first thing that we will bring back is in this will in a timeline sense. The first thing we'll bring back as, as john said, the old scout and the old scout custom barrel pick. And then in about a year from now, we will add to the contradiction family. We already have contradiction, bourbon will add contradiction right into the portfolio, which will be a blend of some Bry made and replaces Indiana, Tennessee and West Virginia. And we're excited about that a lot of people I know have it tasted right out of Tennessee. So it is delicious. And of course another year of aging never hurts, right. So I think it's ready to go now. But we're going to wait a year so the old scout stuff gets good score sort of settled, and then we'll bring back old scout an old scout right in the future but in a limited way as well. And of course will bring out some of our own right but most people know that we that we only make we did very 25:00 But we've been making a ride based bourbon and we've been making rye whiskey for a number of years. And we'll we'll start to bring that out. It's still relatively young. It's still about four years old now. little less than four years old. And it's good, but I would rather I'm forced, I would rather wait wait for everything to be seven or eight years, all of it. Sometimes that's not financially feasible. No, absolutely. It's sometimes you just got to figure out like, how can we how can we squeeze this out just a little bit to buy us a little bit more time? You know? That's right. And we've had that we've had a market in the past it's been pretty extreme right bottles that are 65 to a couple hundred dollars. But the products that will be launching in the in the near future are much more about accessibility for us. So we really want to be in that kind of 40 to $60 range. Look, I know you you joked earlier about whether or not the deal made us drove miles or robberies and Porsches or, and the 26:00 reality of it is is no, we dropped out as your 2008 Nissan Maxima and I love it on the side of the road, I'll cry a tear and go get another one 26:12 before pickup drive, right? I mean, neither one of us came out in the promo deal, right? And, and so we still go to work every day, just like just like we always have. And in fact, we were motivated to do more than do more than we ever have. Yeah, I wouldn't want to touch on that little bit more here in a minute. But you also had talked about the American whiskey and maybe seeing that you say that's going to start sun setting as well. It is you know, 26:39 you know, as we always thought it was really good. And in fact as a bourbon group out there that's pretty well known and they did some blind taste on it was I think 13 other whiskeys and it came back to be in a blonde score it one hauling it straight bourbon. But it just doesn't. It's hard. It's a hard sell. Right? If people who doesn't say bourbon, it doesn't say straight 27:00 bourbon the store doesn't know where to put it, people aren't sure what it is or sure of the provenance format. And so it's just, it's a hard sale. So for that, for that reason alone, it's going to sunset. Yeah. And part of that reason be part of that challenge is 27:17 to be quite honest, if if the handful of people that had been doing American whiskey for eight or 10 years, whatever had been honest about what it was, and the groundwork had been laid for clarity, for American whiskey, I think it certainly wouldn't unseat bourbon or BB in the same zone, but I think it would be more well respected than it is. problem was, you know, you had you had a handful of brands that had a quote unquote, American whiskey, and you didn't know where it was from or what it was in the, you know, it was just sort of this mystery. You know, I remember in high school at the cafeteria was mystery meat like it was just whiskey like mystery whiskey or is it front row. 28:00 We can't tell you what what's the magic but what we can't tell you that, you know, you gotta waterboard the rep to find out whether it's even she'll filter not the work was sort of laid out that it was a redheaded stepchild from its inception. And we tried to be the opposite of that with our American whiskey. We tried to tell everybody as much as we could about where it was from and the way that we treated and all that kind of stuff. And sadly because it is still in a barrel getting older you know, the best probably the best bottle will ever sell will be the last ball 28:31 Well, I mean, I guess there's there's two sides of this right? I think you you kind of I'm sure it was a tough call to sit there and say like yeah, like we can't we can't fight this uphill battle much longer. Right? Because you are right it with with how hot bourbon is. It's hard to come in and try to bring in a new category. And think Yeah, like, let's try to try to play this and try to capitalize on this because yeah, I mean, it's it's tough when people don't see that that. Just that that seven letter word 29:00 Right there burger, right. And, and so when I when I think about this, 29:07 you know, if, you know you'd also mentioned 29:12 they'll have the last bottle or whatever. It also kind of gives you an opportunity here to say, well, let's just quit selling it will sit on these barrels for I don't know how much you know how longer and maybe the time will come around and then we can capitalize on it because once you get something that's a 10 1418 year old product, who knows from there, it might be something that people are going to go ape shit over at some point. It's the you're right and that's the sad part about first of all that's the sad part about selling any barrel that young Yeah, you really wanted to say a look out what about this five year old barrel taste like when it's 14 years old. But it for even for our size business or especially for our size business. That's a big gamble. 30:00 Right so we basically elected to what a little bit we have left to move all from and, in essence swap that for a high bourbon product in terms of in our, in our source category, right? We're going to we're going to say that and that we know what high ride did us and we're going to use this money let's use it to know what we know what basically was the the thing that got us here, which is the high Rialto and and you know when that person comes out this fall, you we all know somebody is going to taste it and they're going to say yeah, you know, I like it but I don't like it as much as that 14 year old cast drink single bear. Well, no shit. 30:39 Yeah, yeah, it's it's taste different than something that's nine years older. Yeah, yeah, we got it. I think. You know, I think that was part of the things that maybe you were alluding to Robin when people were talking about old scouts select. 30:53 Being you know, not being as good as a 13 year old scout select is not being as good as 13 year old MG 31:00 P. Well, yeah, that's right, right, there's a reason that one is $175 at the gift shop 160 $5 all over the all over the country, right? It's worth about 35% as much as the FTP juice, and there's some skin, that's kind of a joke. There's some scarcity to it as well. But we also we jumped in with that the Tennessee stuff that we have is, you know, is really a pretty for the most part. So one time release, it was a spot purchase, he thought it was really good use. And so we brought that out this 31:30 you know, over the spring and summer as well. I think there's, you know, we've been, you guys know what we've been doing too. So we know that going in and doing a Tennessee product was also going to be fighting a little bit of an uphill battle. But we also think there is the opportunity to help change the minds that are out there. You know, for the longest time people just in building their own people thought Kentucky was God, and then all of a sudden now you've got these MGD groups and now people think MGP is God. And so it's I think there's just going to be a circle and at some point 32:00 People are going to realize like, Oh, crap, there was all this high age, Tennessee stuff that was available. That was really good, too. And so we're going to see this where I mean, and I'm sure that you all are kind of seeing it too is that if you have a demand and you have a market demand for something that is 910 1415 years old, it's not available unless it's coming from a different state. Right? None of that stuff is available anymore. And so if you're looking for something that has that openness, that richness and complexity, some of that buttery tastes like, yeah, like, that's all you're only going to find it in one place now. That's right. That's right. You know, did it bother you when I came out? And people said, Well, you know, we just don't drink Tennessee decided that, that upsetting the dog you pick a really, really good barrel and then people say, Oh, it's just whatever because it's from Tennessee. Of course. I mean, I think like I said, there's the people have this. They have they have a blind think have blind thought about it. Most of them said 33:00 Most of them just haven't tried it. They just don't really know what a killer single barrel could be, especially at cash drink because a lot of the Tennessee stuff that is source there, it's on the market. It's not cash drink. It's not a single barrel and you don't really have that. Really that that background to sit there and say like, Oh, yeah, like now not going to do it. There's too much Flintstones vitamins everywhere. But you know, one of the things that john and I laugh about quite a bit, or at least, chuckle about and find a little bit funny, which is the first time we sent old scout raw out for a really good review. It was crushed. Seven years old 99 prove MGP ry. We stand alongside the 99 proof bourbon and the old scouts in and they were all sort of the two Bourbons were kind of mediocre and the ride was crushed. And I can tell you that if I had a chance to buy 10,000 barrels of old scout rye, I wouldn't leave this conversation right now. And 34:00 Don't 34:01 know for the money because that's how much you 40,000 I don't find to the money for it's just it was in such high demand. And so I think you have to remember that negative review are burdens that burden folks who are as you know, we we call them the whiskey nerds and that's a badge of honor. That's not anything that's that's a sort of, we're trying to diminish them. But they are they are emotionally involved in the brands and they get serious about their whiskey and they have very strong opinions and thankfully they're here because that's what grew our business but you know, there's a whole world out there there's the boat are right at seven years old and would still buy it if we had seven year olds. You know, I'm not I'm not a student of this I'm probably going to get the timeline completely fucked up. But it reminds me a little bit of, you know, the the MTP and now Tennessee and then little guys like us all over the US. 35:00 Where the cream is going to rise to the top with you and not just on bourbon but on some of the the American single malt. So been 50 years ago, good wine only came from a couple of places and it wasn't California. And it wasn't Chile, and it wasn't Central Virginia. Now, go Go tell somebody in California, California can't use good wine. Right? But in the 70s somebody in France would have told you you're out of your mind to think that any quality wine will ever come out of California. So I you know, maybe that'll happen with them. Maybe that'll happen with these Bourbons and rise and the single malts and, and as that cream rises to the top, you know, nothing against nothing against Kentucky. We love Kentucky we wouldn't do we do without an affinity for what they've done with that spirit. But I think the tide will eventually turn when people more people will accept it. You can have a kick ass ride from Maine and you can have an amazing vodka from Pennsylvania. You 36:00 La. I hope that happens. I will say this I think the difference is right is that within your scenario that looking for better to craft beer when craft beer came out the beer guys weren't making necessarily great beer in the craft beer guys were the Kentucky distilleries aren't making bad whiskey. They're making great whiskey. And so the craft distillers have work to do. And as our as this industry as a craft distilling industry evolves and becomes more mature, whiskey is going to get better. I know the whiskey we make today is better than the whiskey we made four years or six years ago, eight years ago. If you're not getting better today than you were six months ago, you should stop doing what you do and go do something else. And that's that's where we feel right. So some big level, a big level has a love it or hate it relationship. 36:49 And we wouldn't put it out if we weren't proud of it. But I can tell you this the big level we made four years ago, and two years ago, and six months ago, continued to get better and it got 37:00 by a long shot because we got better, we also run a different still right? But we got better, we got better at everything we do selecting grains and fermentation, distillation, distillation, style, aging, longer aging, whatever that is. So that's our goal is Johnson really early on our goal is to be really, really serious about what we've done and we've taken every step we've been obsessive about our productions of getting better. That's what that's what hurts your feelings a little bit when somebody tries something and they're just like, yeah, it's a drain pour. You know, I couldn't even drink it with a could even drink with Coke, you know, whatever. Like, I get it. I mean, and just because we like it doesn't mean anybody else has to. I completely understand that. But it's, it's as though you didn't think we tasted that whiskey 100 times before we put it in a bottle. It we just went out and blindly just chose some barrels and didn't pay any attention to how they tasted and put them I mean, not at all. Like we panel everything and no 38:00 anybody's gonna like it. That's okay. But, you know, trust me, if you don't like it, that's okay. But that because we didn't like it, because we don't bottle anything. We know what I mean. So I guess you kind of talked about that because big level was sort of that like hit or miss with a lot of the community. Right. And I know john, you mentioned that it's even kind of getting on location in some states and stuff like that. So do you see big level as kind of always evolving or transforming with releases as it comes out? 38:33 From forest to still, Bull Run distillery whiskeys are using some of the best water in the US. They're also experimenting by agent them in different types of barrels, including cognac, Madeira, and Urbino nor barrels to their whiskeys are being featured by rackhouse whiskey club in their October box, made from 96% corn bull runs American whiskey is the lightest and sweetest product they offer and has very little barrel character to it. A company that in the rock house was 39:00 Club box is a penal new or finished whiskey. It's the same American whiskey but finished in French oak barrels, you really have to try these two side by side to see what barrel aging can do. And you can do that by checking out rock house whiskey club, their whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer rock house boxes ship out every two months to 40 states. Go to rock house whiskey club. com to check it out and try these unique whiskies. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 39:33 What defines distillery 291 Colorado whiskey is it spirit passion permeates every city since day one distillery 291 distillers from grain to barrel to bottle by hand, distinctive Colorado whiskey, utilizing grains from the Colorado plains and water collected from Pikes Peak reservoirs 291. Colorado whiskey is handmade the Colorado way everything matters 291 Colorado whiskey has earned both 40:00 of national and international awards for its spirits with the unique character in the flavor of a bygone era. Named world's best Bry in 2018 by World whiskey awards, seven liquid gold from Jim Murray's whiskey Bible, 291. Colorado whiskey embodies the traditions of the past, married with the boldness of the future, find a bottle near you at 291 Colorado whiskey.com write it like you stole it, drink it like you own it. Live fast and drink responsibly. 40:31 So do you see big level as kind of 40:34 always evolving or transforming with releases as it comes out? Absolutely. Well, maybe not always evolving, but over the short period. I think in a couple of years, it'll reach its you know, where, where it wants to live in age and discipline and everything else. So I wouldn't say it always has got involved. But yeah, I mean, if the first big level you ever had was batch three, and now we're on batch 50 41:01 Give it a shot you I think you'd be really surprised at the change. And you know, it's it's not that we have this 41:09 badge of honor that it's improved now over maybe the first couple of batches. That's just a natural progression of our business as john said, you can't do something over and over and over again without getting getting better at it and, and I'm not ashamed the batch one big level, no matter how much anybody may or may not have liked it. We tasted it. We're in love with it. We made it with our bare hands. And I'm not ashamed of it, just because a later batch is better. 41:37 Absolutely. And so there was something that you still talked about a little talking about craft. I mean, do you really guys still consider yourself a craft distiller? I mean, because you guys are pretty big now. Yes, of course. I'm not sure. I'm not sure what the definition of craft is. 41:54 Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there's like a minimum or volume or anything anymore. Yeah. 42:01 I think my first of all make it a habit to never talk poorly about anybody but 42:05 this is not talking poorly but I usually don't talk about other brands with me as Buffalo Trace craft is four roses craft, yeah, who's making better product and some of these other brands right. So I think that they're really good at their craft right. 42:21 There a lot of brands like that. But if you look at the way that we used to think of craft distilling as being some small plant think all of the whiskey that we have on the market right now is definitely sorry, all the whiskey that we made is on the market right now is definitely craft was right. It's whiskey that was made, you know, loading bags of grain, 50 pound bags of grain and us still and turn it vows by hand and, you know, the sort of more hands on really handmade product, right? There's this definition of like, what is handmade, these were really made really handmade, we still do a lot of hands on stuff, but it was a lot of labor and a lot of love. And you know, if it didn't work, john and i don't just go get other jobs. 43:00 We move, you know, there's not a lot in West Virginia. So we're putting a lot of risk. That seems very seems much like a craft to me. We have certainly evolved. I don't even know what our term is. Now. We're not even a mid major, maybe we're, I like to say that we're a large craft distillery. So that's kind of the way I think about it. So it's a hard term that we don't really use it anymore. It's also been talking here, we don't use it any sort of publication. I don't think we use on our website and yeah, I mean, nobody knows what it means. And as you know, there's so much BS in the market with market fluff right now, which is, which was the whole other problem that we have, right. We don't have a more our marketing story as we don't have a marketing story. 43:41 Yeah, um, yeah, we, I usually refer to us as a small producer, which I mean, you have to we don't use the word craft a whole lot of craft distillery a lot. And that's the distinction right, there's a quote unquote craft distillery and then there is the craft of making great whiskey and 44:00 Buffalo Trace and heaven Hill are good at the craft of making really great whiskey we think we are too. But sometimes you have to say craft distiller because other people expect you to, or you're introduced as, Oh, Johnny foster from craft distillery, but I really think of us as it's just a small, small small producers by the way. Yeah. So there's a you also mentioned West Virginia I think we kind of talked about at the top of here that you know, that's where you all are based kind of talk about what you know, over the past few years, kind of what smooth and was done for the area done for the community and stuff like that, too. 44:35 is interesting. We, I missed a meeting at the CDB today. I double booked myself for a 10am the convention Visitors Bureau year and one of the one of the things I was going to talk about, so I wrote some notes on that, or vows. It's interesting that you vows doing that for us Valley runs our tasting tasting room. Yeah, well, I think, Well, I know we're is proud of the impact that we've made in our small community. 45:00 As we are of the whiskey that we put out and at the end of the day, in any business you want to do, you'd like to make someone's life better. And whether that's with your podcast with whiskey that you guys go out and source or, or what we do the the goal that you're making you're improving someone else's life is something that you should always take with great pride and honor. And so we know we started with three employees, john and i and and one other person and we now have 23 employees, and those they pay we pay them way more than anything in the geographic norm. They get free vision and dental and that's how they subsidize medical care and they start with three weeks of paid vacation. And it doesn't seem like maybe doesn't seem like the world but we feel like we're doing a really good job. Our employees love what they do here. We treat them well. We just took a group of salespeople. They come in remember visiting here we took them whitewater 46:00 rafting and got sporting clays. And so we bring some of our employees to go along with those. Those things, I think we have something that's pretty magical. When when promote comes over, we bring the sales people in here and we're getting hotel rooms or we're spending money at bars and restaurants or say going to shoot sporting clays or spending money at the rafting companies that in essence, which is some agritourism 46:23 and the visitors right, so we have Graham Larry, and so there's gonna be 175 people from out of town, they're going to come in here and stay to room nights. And that's a big impact in a town of 35 people that they're going to this will be 350 room nights over two days spent here. And and that's a big impact for us, or for our community. And so those things where it's really super brought up and, and somebody Anna yesterday, so may that. Thank you for making me. Thank you for having some for having something for us to be proud of. And I said what are you talking about? And she says, You know when I go somewhere 47:00 I tell people that oh we have the distillery smooth Ambler in our backyard they go oh, we love some of them. And so they feel proud that they're from this little bitty town in rural West Virginia and they have something that is export across the world and is a really good product and that people can be proud of and that doesn't motivate you to be better every day. 47:19 We've also you know, when opportunities arise, to try and raise money for good causes. We've done that I mean, we had a terrible flood here in West Virginia as you may remember, a three years ago and we pulled out all the stops to raise some money for that. We had a live bottle auction in Kentucky. I think it's one of the one of the only places you do that legally anyway. In in Northern Kentucky, couple of years ago raised a bunch of money that we would 20 grand that we that we gave to an organization called Team Rubicon that deploys experienced first responders. 47:59 Usually 48:00 former military personnel in disaster situations, 48:04 the smooth Ramblers got together and raise some money for Val so that she could start a local dog rescue business which is her, which is her passion. 48:16 We helped out a friend of ours who used to sell used to be one of our reps with a different distributor and we moved away from from that with the porno thing. But you know, her brother was was having some medical issues and we saw an opportunity to try and, and and use some of our leverage helpers like we really believe in in giving back and doing everything that we can to help our community far and wide. Sometimes that community is here in West Virginia and sometimes that community is anywhere we could affect some change in and help people out if we are also in the middle of rural West Virginia and there's not a lot of diversity here. So we're proud of the fact that there are four or five members of our 23 person crew here that are in same sex relations. 49:00 Right, you want to be welcoming to everyone. And we we've been really bad about not talking about those things, the money we raised for flood relief twice the other community things that we've done that patients, we make charities in West Virginia, we've been we've been we've done a really bad job of doing that because we felt like we were pandering to people and we never want to feel like we're doing it just for the business. We do it because it's the right thing to do. That's a good way to put it. It's good to see that you all are advocating a lot of diversity because I think that's something that this industry is really lacking and and there's a lot of push forward as well. So it's great to see you all being on the front lines of that too. But there was one thing that you all talked about that I kind of want to do with you all and I'm going to go whitewater rafting with the John's maybe that'll be fun. Come on there we we love that. We do it again in two weeks. We got we got a crew from Texas coming in. I'm not kidding. Yeah, that we have people when people come here they go oh, this is they're amazing. I've been on 35 of these or I've been on the street 50:00 trips for 35 years is the best we do. And I tell them, this is what we do for for us, I want to tell them that we're treating them special, but the reality is we're not we just treat them like we would treat our friends, if we have the money personally to go do those. 50:15 That's kind of what we do, you know, that talking. 50:19 That's not talking about any other specific brand. But I one of the reps told us when they were here, like, you know, we get on the trips, and sometimes it's overseas, and sometimes it's here, whatever. And he, he was just, he's like, I really appreciate the time that you and john spent with us, because normally we go and we get if there's a founder some of those big brands, you know, the founders have been dead for a long, long time. But if they're around, you know, he was like, they might come down from their mansion in their body for a little while and like, hang out with you at a dinner and then leave. He's like you and john are like driving us around and cooking burgers and like, you know, we don't we never experienced that before. We just 51:00 treat everybody like like family here because it will say this for real reason, but I like shooting sporting clays. I like going whitewater rafting. Yeah. 51:10 It's not laying bricks. Yeah, we're not digging ditches. Yeah. And let's consider how lucky we are. But it's also not a it's also not just a marketing ploy, but it's who it's who we are. It's out it's how we roll so it comes very naturally and again, at the at the end of the day, it's like well what what can we do that that maybe somebody else can't or won't do and you know, we can buy we can buy 10 million smooth Ambler cocktail shakers and we can carpet bomb all of our significant markets with those but that's something that's really easy for somebody else to do and very common for somebody else to do we we just try and always when we can put up a personal touch on Yeah, just have a good party at the Johnson hopefully get a good TripAdvisor review after it. Well, and then yeah, so listen, we drive your ass around five stars, five stars. 52:01 You know, that says your Uber rating john Tesh? 52:04 But you know, that's what that's what the the whiskey wagon is all about. I mean that that the whole impetus for the whole idea is, let's take, you know, the way we would treat somebody in my backyard or over John's house or here at the distillery on the road, and that is Turn up the music and lay out some whiskey and put out the corbel. I mean, that's, that's not just a marketing affectations. Hey, we think this is a good idea to sell some whiskey. I mean, I should hope it sells some whiskey because that's what my job is. But it's also who we are. And that's what we do. Yeah, talk about that for a second too, because I remember seeing pictures of the whiskey wagon, but for our listeners who may not have heard of it, go ahead and kind of explain what it is. So it's a it's a mobile tasting room, in essence. You know, we saw a lot of those wagons, people pulled around these air streams and they were more like food trucks right. So bartender sits inside customers outside. 53:00 You serve to the customer and they leave. The whiskey wagon is a is a box trailer a big box trailer that it's got a stage trailer and the doors, the sides of the trailer open up become floors. It comes pretty big when you open it up. It's about 31 feet long by 16 feet once open and it has a guardrail around it and so the idea is that people come up into the vessel and hang out so it's just like well it says much like our tasting room is that box trailer can be so that's red walls which are in our trailer or in our tasting room rather it's real cabinetry real bar, you know saying that people can work in two coolers so we can keep stuff for cocktails or bottles of water in their speakers air conditioning. It's It's It's amazing and the reception has been amazing. We're we're doing crazy numbers we go to these festivals these beer bourbon barbecue festivals and showcase their we're going to want to knock it gets all the way to Knoxville right now john leaves here in one hour. 54:00 goes to Knoxville this weekend, and will have 1200 to 1800 people visited during a six hour span. It's absolutely getting crushed and we we love that, you know that start down fo one of the first of all Kentucky makes a lot of great whiskey as I alluded to earlier. But it also has a really good location, other places that people come to kind of in the middle of nowhere. So if you're here you've made you've made a real effort to get here. If you can't come to us, we're going to come to you and that's what the whiskey wagons purposes it's basically like a you see the one of the some of the Transformers movies. Yeah, like a transformer. If they were like a redneck transformer that like Hank Williams Jr. and whiskey a lot. That's what this thing is. 54:44 That sounds pretty awesome. I'm on board with that. 54:48 So we're going to kind of start wrapping it up real quick. But I you know, we talked about the porno deal a little bit and I'm sure not sure you get into specifics, but kind of talk about really, what more the benefits that 55:00 It really drive for you all. Is there kind of like a sense of relief a little bit that, you know, it's not completely just bootstrapped on you anymore, like kind of talk about what that means to you? Well, certainly from a financial standpoint, there's a sense of relief, right, as though as I talked about earlier, this didn't work, john and i move. Well, now we have a little bit more financial security. Certainly the business does, right has more financial security. They have been really wonderful to us. But that doesn't mean it's been it's always been right. It's always been wonderful, smooth sailing. It's, it's just integrating a small business into a corporate situation is not always easy. But as a friend told me, a friend who'd been in the business a very long time a former master distiller, they were as much like a family business as a corporation can be, and I believe that to be true. The things that they help us with are endless. You're talking about the ability to access everyone from audio 56:00 Ours distillers, to folks at Hiram Walker about production details, everything from grain receipts to bottling they know about it, they've been through it, they, they and we actually send samples here three times a week to them and they test them on some other equipment that we don't have, which is a really wonderful thing to have from a production standpoint. So we're better by a long shot than the way we used to be because of that. And because we now have a an operations manager, because we can afford to have those things. We're better at our legal stuff by long shot because they have a legal team and by human resources and helping us to put together these wonderful manuals and diversity policies and and help us to not just to put them together but to live them even better. So the whole deal for us has been absolutely wonderful. From the sales side, they have a really large distribution footprint and they have a ton of help and there are jobs job is is to find out how a small business is an 57:00 Actually a strategically significant to their district distribution partners or, or to them as well. And so that's what that's what our task is or our job is to find our place and then to grow that become more important in their system. And that that that's the challenge but that's not unique to pronounce that when I say there's not something it's not unique because there's an Oprah knows wonderful, that's the that's the the issue that any small business faces when they try to go when they try to grow and they try to get bigger and and the bigger is not just about money for us the bigger again is about opportunity. We want to share the whiskey with more people we want our employees to have better lives and we want them to go vacation more often and have nice cars and whatever that is that makes people happy in the world. And so all of that comes with with the deal and you first started I know you didn't mean it but when you say we got bought out 57:49 and it is I guess that's one of the terms but we like to think of it as a buy in. Right they own the majority of the business but they don't own all of it and and we are partners with them. Stay 58:00 So that's kind of the way we think of our business. It's sort of you know, whenever those acquisitions take place, particularly in the in the craft beer world, I mean, those guys are and their sir fear when their favorite brewery gets bought out by AB or one of these bigger companies. But the but even I think in the whiskey world, the for people like us the temptation is to think, Oh, well, you know, so now they're going to start, they're going to fit me in job with mind control chips, and you probably, I probably need one or start forcing stuff down our throat and you know, you're going to do this, you're going to do that. And I can tell you, I'm sure john agrees with me from a production standpoint, and certainly from the sales and marketing standpoint. 58:45 It's been like the opposite of the movie Field of Dreams instead of building and they will come. They had been very much like we come to them with a good idea and they'll help us build it. And I don't know what else you can ask for from a corporate partner beyond that. 59:00 Absolutely, and I guess, john or Foster, should I say, I gotta, I gotta make sure I'd say this right? Because you'll probably be like, Huh, what, who's this directed to? But so Foster, you know, little said something about, like how they helped you with distribution? I mean, that was kind of like been that was kind of like your deal for a while, right? I mean, how how was that like kind of really benefited you? Well, I mean, their network is vast and varied. And so it's a little bit of a challenge to because the relationships that they have inside of their distributors can work a couple of different ways. And that that's a has been a difficult navigation, just understanding it and understanding what's important to each sort of layer in that relationship. And sometimes you have teams that are completely dedicated to promote products. Sometimes you have teams that are full book, sometimes you have both sometimes you have combinations of both and 1:00:00 Think as john said that, that layer and understanding how to drill deep into those things. And as john says, and we've said for years to figure out how to become strategically or financially important to to those reps, 1:00:17 everybody's got that problem. That's not a, I'm not taking on PR No, when I say that, that's been a bit of a challenge. But everybody's everybody's got that issue. Because your average street rep at at a at a distributor, or your average manager or your average manager, even inside of PR know, they have some big brands that they're really responsible for making sure continue to be healthy. And so the challenge for all of the small producers like us is how to live in that world and navigate those waters in a way that produce results. And that when we say strategic or financial, the two ways that that can happen is you use a small, esoteric brand to leverage this kind of get in the door. 1:01:00 Get in front of a buyer or get in front of a buying group that you might otherwise, you know, have trouble getting into with one of the commodity items. Or the other thing is to really start to see some critical mass and sales. I mean, man, I can tell you as somebody who was in sales for a long, long time 100% commission when your brand starts to show up on somebody's commission report, they start to pay attention 1:01:24 and and that's the most powerful thing we can try the real us fantastic so let's go ahead and we'll kind of wrap this up because there's always one thing that if you'd listened back on episode 79 I know I had asked it when we talked to john little but kind of for our newer listeners tell them where the name smooth sampler comes from. A smooth Ambler is a enabled as a game. A horse is typically born with a gate on a gimbal and it is between a walk in a run. And that spoke to us about the area in which we live. 1:02:00 It's people think we're a bunch of maybe a lot of people think maybe we're a bunch of, you know, a bunch of country folks. 1:02:07 And we're certainly not New York City. We know that right? But we, we live in this really wonderful place in West Virginia, this really wonderful community Greenbrier County and Lewisburg, West Virginia. And it's just got a really nice pace of life. It's an anvil. And we like to think that that's the same way we run our business in the same way that our whiskey tasting. So that's where that's where some of them are came from. There we go. Well, john, thank you once again, for coming back on the show. It was good to kind of get this this catch up of what's been going on with you because there's been a lot of changes to really kind of follow along and get those updates and help maybe in a year. We'll do it again. Man, thanks for having us. We really appreciate it. Are you gonna you gonna be at the hometown rising and bourbon and beyond? I guess, or no, I will be there bourbon beyond Sure. We'll get we'll see you there. Thanks. Thanks for what you do. You got it and also want to give a opportunity to plug if people want to come visit you. I mean, of course, you probably pull it up on 1:03:00 Google Maps but kind of give a shout out to how they can learn mo

Our guest is Elizabeth McCall, Assistant Master Distiller at Woodford Reserve. We chat about her life both at work and at play while sipping on some incredible Woodford products. There is also a special appearance by Chris Morris, Master Distiller. Subscribe to catch every episode. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @thebourbonroad. Thanks to Woodford Reserve for sponsoring this episode. Find out more about Woodford Reserve and their amazing products at https://www.woodfordreserve.com/

Chris Morris and Elizabeth McCall are no strangers to the show so we're excited to have them back on again. This time, we explore the controversial topic of “what is a master distiller?”. How is a title like that earned through years of service? How is Brown-Forman laying the foundation for Elizabeth to take over when Chris is ready to retire? We also talk about barrels from their cooperage, the influence of char on their whiskey, and this week's Whiskey Quickie, the King of Kentucky. Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at business.louisville.edu/onlinespirits. At Barrell Craft Spirits, they take blending seriously. They spend months obsessing over hundreds of combinations until they figure out the perfect blend for you. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Check out Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about rapid aging. Lawsuit challenges out-of-state retailers' ability to sell, deliver and ship alcohol to Kentucky consumers - https://www.wdrb.com/news/lawsuit-challenges-out-of-state-retailers-ability-to-sell-deliver/article_4881080e-acc4-11e9-9dbc-8b443dc97b9e.html Join us on barrel selections and see what other perks await. Support the podcast at https://www.patreon.com/bourbonpursuit Come drink some beer with us at 3rd Turn Brewing on July 26th from 4-7pm https://www.facebook.com/events/327452114804983/ Elizabeth, tell us about your role. Do different Master Distiller's have different styles? Is there a Master Distiller training manual? What do you think of everyday people becoming Master Distillers without significant training? What is a Master Distiller today? How do you know a bourbon will be good once it's aged? What flavors or notes do you consider defects? Are we going to see more single malts come out of Brown-Forman? Why is there such a fascination with making malts work? Tell us about the latest Distiller's Select? Are there two different char levels on the double double oaked? Talk about owning your own cooperage. Tell us about King of Kentucky. Why did you chose this label? Is there any pressure on Elizabeth to live up to Chris? How did you feel when you became a Master Distiller? Recorded live at Down One Bourbon Bar in Louisville, KY. 0:00 I love bourbon, but I'm not ready to restart my career to be a distiller. I have a bachelor's degree and I want to continue to use those skills in the whiskey industry. So check this out. The University of Louisville now has an online distilled spirits business certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry like finance, marketing and operations. This is perfect for anyone looking for more professional development. And if you ever want to get your MBA, their certificate credits transfer into Ul's new online MBA program. Learn more about this online program at business global.edu slash online spirits 0:38 the king right there brother 0:40 if you want to use if you want some of that make sure you crack it open now because it's not open. Oh, I feel 0:45 that is it yours? Yeah, I product Yeah, open it. 0:49 Like always calls Kenny $1,000. 0:52 Bottle every every time it comes over I lose $1,000 1:07 Hey everybody, this is Episode 211 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny and let's go through a little bit the news. Woodford Reserve has announced the release of its newest permanent expression. The Woodford Reserve Kentucky straight wheat whiskey with wheat as its dominant grain at 52% followed by 20% malt 20% corn in a percent rye. This whiskey was created by master distiller Chris Morris and more said that Woodford Reserve now has all four whiskeys as a part of its permanent family of brands. You have Woodford bourbon, Woodford rye, Woodford malt and now Woodford wheat. The Woodford Reserve wheat is 90.4 proof with a suggested retail price of 3499 verse 750 ml. That's quite the segue into our guest today, but we'll save that here for him. It was just a few weeks ago, we talked about the Supreme Court ruling that lifted the ban on out of state retailers in the state of Tennessee that could potentially affect shipping across the nation. Well, I think we're about to start witnessing the start of the domino effect. A Louisville attorney recently filed a lawsuit in federal district court against Kentucky Governor Matt Bevin, Kentucky Attorney General Andy this year and the executive director of the Alcohol Beverage Control, Norman, our flag. This complaint argues that the law is unconstitutional because as we've said before, it violates the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution, because by quote, It discriminates against out of state wine retailers engaged in interstate commerce. It also argues that it violates the privileges and immunities clause of Article four section two of the United States Constitution because it denies non resident wine merchants the privilege of engaging and there are occupation in Kentucky on the terms of equivalent those given to the citizens of Kentucky. And that's all according this lawsuit. We are going to continue to pay very close attention to see how this plays out and other states in the upcoming few months. On Monday, this week, we got to take a trip over to Cox's Creek with a few of our Patreon community members and select two barrels of four roses. The team came together and selected a nine year six month old BASF and a 10 year six month OVSK we're really looking forward to getting these barrels out to the art community sometime in September. We also selected a new riff barrel once again. You know if you want to see more about all the perks that are offered by supporting this podcast like going with us on barrel selections, please do us a favor go to patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit and get more information. Now if we rewind the clocks back to around February of 2018 all the fellas from the bourbon Community Roundtable we met up in Frankfort, Kentucky to select a barrel of Buffalo Trace what happened next With that said barrel is the next part of this story. When you have a used bourbon barrel you want to repurpose it. And what better way to do that then letting it age with some delicious Imperial stout, we teamed up with third term brewing and did just that. We aged a stout at 12.2% ABV and let it rest in that barrel for an entire year. And now it's time to release it. On Friday, July 26. from four to 7pm. Ryan and I we will be at third term brewing located in JA town in Louisville, Kentucky and we want to share a pint with you Please come on out and try this beer on tap. And if you really like it, you can take home a crawler for yourself to take home. We hope to see you out there. More information about that can be found on our Facebook page under the events section. Now today's podcast was recorded while ago when we were on site at down one bourbon bar in Louisville, Kentucky. So if it sounds like we're recording in a bar, no, it's because we were, however, Chris Morris and Elizabeth McCall. They're no strangers of the show. And we're excited to have them back on once again. But this time, we're excited to hear them talk about the job of master distiller and how that title is earned through years of service. And really how brown Forman is now laying the foundation for Elizabeth to take over when Chris is ready to retire. We also talked about the barrels that they have in their own Cooper bridge, the char and this week's whiskey quickie that ended on Tuesday, the king of Kentucky. All right, you've heard me talk long enough. So let's hear from Joe over a barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 5:50 Hi, this is Joe Beatrice from barrell craft spirits. I work with a team that takes blending seriously, we spend months obsessing over hundreds of combinations, until we figure out the perfect blend for you. 6:01 You can find it on the shelves at your nearest retail store. 6:05 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the charm. Every week I asked listeners to send me an idea for above the char, I get so many. But the one request I get most of all, is what do I think of rapid aging. This is the process that new distillers or chemists use to try and make bourbon faster. And I want to tell you, this has been going on for a very, very long time. In technology, they like to seek solutions for problems. And the fact is making Bourbons biggest problem is the fact that making it right and making it tasty, can take anywhere from four to 15 years. So if you're a businessman or woman, and you want to make some money, it sure looks good if you can make a six month old bourbon taste like it's 15 years old. Now a little history behind this. The Romans actually employed rapid aging techniques and wine and spirits. You know, the mid 19th century we saw incredible amounts of people attempt rapid aging technology. In 1867. a Frenchman use a roadable wouldn't paddle to agitate barrels like a butter churn. Using a similar concept. The 1871 us patented peifer and Richards apparatus place barrels on roller slats and a heated room and agitated the barrels back and forth. The inventors claim that this ripened whiskey within a few weeks, several others hit the market in the 1870s to include a heat and motion device that offered practical value and utility. We'd also see ultrasonic radiation center in the 1930s. And the Germans would do things like raise the Ester content up to 120%. And wind is toilets, they also used sound technology. By the 1960s rapid aging fell out of fashion, it was not considered very satisfying. In fact, you would see distillers openly speak out against this. Today we have seen the rise of smaller barrels claiming that it's aged faster. We've seen people play heavy bass music to make the whiskey come out quicker. There's been chemical reactions there have been agitators very similar to you know, mixing a paint can. There's been all these efforts to make whiskey faster, and I've tasted almost all of them. They all lack a certain depth, a certain mouth fill a certain flavor that makes you want to buy it. In fact, I'd say the thing that we should really look at here, is there a problem with whiskey. And the fact is there is not. The problem is is in the making money of whiskey. So as long as you somebody could make money trying to figure out a solution to getting good whiskey to your doorstep, we will always see rapid aging technology. And I will always give it a shot. But I have yet to taste one that is better than even some of the worst craft distilled whiskies. Rapid aging technology doesn't add anything to the quality of the whiskey, at least from what I've tasted. Instead, it strips out a lot of character, and it doesn't have the time that's really required to be a good or great bourbon. So what's the old saying, if it's not broke, don't fix it. And let's face it, Bourbons now broken. And that's this week's above the char Hey, if you have an idea for above the char hit me up on Twitter or Instagram. That's at Fred Minnick again at Fred Minnick. Until next week. Cheers 9:55 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit. The first of the Live podcast we doing here at down one bourbon bar in Louisville, Kentucky, Fred Ryan and Kenny back here. Once again, and we this is a this is a new home, this is actually going to be pretty fun because Ryan and I had a tasting here last week when we did this. But this is going to be a new adventure bringing a guest Yes, I'm looking around and like I'm remembering our first time we record a podcast was in my basement. And like, just me and you and a laptop and like there was nobody there. And now there's like, like 15 people around us watching there's all these lights, we got master distillers here, there's reserved tables even though they're not for us. 10:37 But people thought they would act like there is it's like kind of crazy. You know, it really is and, and I'm Fred This is how many times you've been down one. 10:46 So it's a problem anytime I actually been here so often that I got my own car back there in the closet of things getting too far. But this is a this has been a fun bar to kind of see it develop. There's been a lot of talent from Louisville, Kentucky. I'm from here and go on to be brand ambassadors for for distilleries and go on to like other opportunities. But this for me is this is one of the places where I come in, and I assess talent for for things that I'm doing and they do a great job here. And of course, they're connected to the Galt house or part of the Galt house family. And so and never hurts from a purchasing opportunity, you know, for a bar to have that kind of purchasing power to be connected to someone like the Galt house, so they they get a lot of good things that a lot of smaller bars don't 11:35 and hold on. I want to know about this scouting report. 11:39 Like Like are you like NBA Scout, you know, going around? Well, 11:41 I you know, as, as you know, Kenny and Ryan, I do a lot of festivals. And I'm also on a lot of education committees for for for, you know, cocktail cocktail. And then I try to do things I try to create content for live festivals and and I usually have to tap into bartenders. And bartenders have to In my opinion, from a career perspective, they have they are a lot like an NBA player. Yeah. And like some people come in are like, really great for two years and then they're gone. Some people come in and they're wanting to the cocktail world. It's true. It's true, like bartending talent is something that from an education perspective, you have to scout you have to find the people that will you know, put on good seminars and can actually make a Daiquiri in a grown in an old fashioned and a man had don't they don't they serve the great Chris Morris the right way. 12:45 Don't give him the cocktail get give him the right cocktail that you know, he asked for 12:51 a frozen concoction. It's amazing Jimmy Buffett, 12:54 but but the Daiquiri actually was not meant to be 12:57 a blended 13:00 auction. Although it's tornadoes. 13:01 I love the blended 13:03 a bottle and you put a margarita or blender and shake it up, and it's ready to drink. But 13:09 all right, Kenny said about to explode. We got him. 13:14 Chris, as you may know, our friend candy here. He's a little he's all right. 13:23 We got it. We got him taking off the guardrail. Sometimes we gotta bring it back in focus. But that's really what we're talking about today's not cocktails and we are talking about bourbon and most important, we're talking about Woodford Reserve. So today we have Chris Morris the master distiller at Woodford Reserve and Elizabeth McCall, the Assistant master distiller at Woodford Reserve. And both of these people are alumni of the show. I believe it was back in the episode 40s and Episode 60s when when you made your parents so welcome back on. Thank you. 13:50 Thanks for having us back. So have you been 13:52 Yeah, and get to get this kicked off a little bit. Elizabeth, I kind of want you to kind of give people another recreation of really what your role has progressed to since the last time you're on because you were in the lab. You are the head taster, I believe and now your assistant master distiller so what what's what's that look 14:10 like back when we go back in time as Chris's wonderfully made Manhattan made its way to him. So when I last was speaking to it was master taster and senior quality control specialist at Woodford Reserve. Working production part of the time and the other part of the time was working with Chris on innovation and of course, tasting batches and all of that and it shifted to more focus on really getting in the weeds of trying to understand how Chris's mind works. Which 14:42 Hold on wait that out. 14:44 I have not figured it out yet. He's kind of 14:47 nice. You know how your mind when I respond 14:48 to emails as genius? I do he so he's being very embarrassed. But I really do because I won't ever be able to understand fully how his mind works and how he puts patches together and how he pulls in history and an actual where's this the market going? I mean, all that is very interesting, but I try to learn as much as I can. So I'm trying to just follow in his footsteps and learn that and that's just spending as much time with him as possible. He gives me projects. And he's like here the other day. I'm like, Okay, how do you build a new grain recipe? And he handed me the book of corn. He's like, I read this on a trip, like one string of corn. Yeah. 15:30 Like a Bible. textbook on corn. 15:32 Yeah, there's a book on corn. There's a book on corn. And I mean, that's the kind of thing Morris does when he when he thinks there's a lot of conscious thought. 15:40 It's amazing Kenny, but actually authors write things. 15:43 Yeah, let me know when it turns into an audio book. And I'll 15:48 forget on Audible 15:49 or the movie, the movie version. 15:52 But that but that's a lot of what I've been trying to learn that and then of course, still learning in the production side of things I you can never, you'll never know everything. I still have a lot of learning to do in terms of getting my hands dirty at the Cooper bridge and other distilleries outside of Woodford Reserve. So my and then education. I work with Chris and the team of other masters Stiller's at Brown Forman on educating our sales force and distributor folks on the whiskey category. So there's just lots of things nuances that go into it. 16:22 I got a question for you to Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt but like, so does the master is still or just do each different distillers have different styles or methods? Or is it more like plug and play? Or like, what is Chris's style? And what's yours? Or like, how are they different? Or same? Or? 16:38 Well, certainly, in my experience, 16:42 we see differences good talk with Fred before we stepped in this afternoon, that each company has its own criteria. For the job. There's no uniform, what is a master distiller what is the distiller it varies from company to company. And we're are of course, very proud to be the oldest spirits company and in America, the the round form and parent company. So we think we know what we're doing. And I am the seventh in the history of the company. And Elizabeth is, is working away to number eight. But we have criteria that differ from other companies. But you do see a difference in style. And interpretation. Of course, I everybody knows my mentor. My first boss in my whole life was Lincoln Henderson. And I'm very different than link. In fact, my palate is different than Lincoln. Near the end of his career, we would have arguments, because I was tasting things he didn't taste and he would get upset. Sorry, that's the way that it was. Because we know as people age, their sense of taste deteriorates. So a younger person will have a better sense of taste. I know that 17:58 I trying to say that you already kind of like see inevitable coming is that was that was happening, and you're trying to groom her to do 18:03 that. That's part of the process. One of my key roles today is to develop Elizabeth, to succeed me. So that's part of our brown Coleman process, passing on the mantle from generation to generation, so that nothing changes. Wink wink, things will change. Because Elizabeth is not Chris. Yeah, I wasn't Lincoln. 18:26 But we got a ways before we see that change, right, Chris? 18:32 I hope so. But not that I don't want Elizabeth and 18:38 I have a lot to learn. 18:39 But we're having such a good time together. And we got our new master taster over here. Katie joining us tonight. But that's that's just if you're making 100% natural product with reserve is corn, rye, barley, or how many whiskies? It's the limestone water, its yeast, its exposure to copper, and maturation and an oak barrel. It's as natural as you can get. And as you put those batches together, based on your perception of our standard, it will evolve. Because again, we're all individuals. And I think that's one reason people will love a brand, like what preserve it is our collaborative interpretation of this product. And again, it will change with the changes are subtle, the changes are evolutionary. But the The bottom line is it's it's it's a real product that somebody or some persons a team are putting together. It's not artificial, it's not manufactured. It's not a committee in in some corporate office, it's real. 19:54 Yeah. So is that like training manual? Is that something you do? Or is that something that, you know, brown Forman has like, here's how we want it done. And Chris is like, Yo, this should be done. Like so how's that kind of work in that process? Brian Yeah, 20:09 it's an audible book I had, 20:10 I had produced for me or developed for me. The that manual before it didn't exist. And when I was coming up, it was a guidepost for me, you know, sort of tailored to me, and, and that was back in 2019 years ago. And, and I've taken those that original work as as we've evolved and developed and tweaked it. And now brown Forman does have a professional development guide for master distiller, which means assistant master distiller we have a professional guide for master taster that both Elizabeth and of course Katie have gone through courses of the destruction experiences. 21:04 Let's take it Okay. All right. So you're just talking about like all these manuals you have and all this effort that you put into the terms and titles master distiller master taster system master distiller when I can just go right down the street, and get a diploma from a moonshine University, and then come out, start my own distillery, or Heck, I don't even have to go there. I can start a distillery tomorrow and say, I'm a master distiller even watching YouTube channel, I could watch it and 21:32 say, I'm a master distiller in the old Ascot brand takes off from there, 21:36 that's right, was shaking her head. What in the world is happening to American whiskey right now, where you have one company who's going through all this effort for the titles of distiller and then you have some random schmo wearing wherever and USA saying that they're a master distiller and they haven't done a liquor distilling What's going on? 22:03 Yeah, Elizabeth, I kinda wanna get your take on that one. Because you're, you've been, you've been trying to groom yourself for this role, and you've been really putting years of effort into it. So 22:10 so I only have 10 years in this industry, and which some people are like, Oh, my gosh, that's a long time. Long brown Forman that's not baby. And, and in this industry, in my opinion, that's not I don't feel it's a long time. And I am very, very much very proud and I think you hear it when I talk about Chris's going nowhere, I hope anytime soon, because I have a lot of pride in the fact that I'm assistant and that in implies a great deal of learning I had still have to do and the respect I have for the title of masters Still, if they were to tell me tomorrow, you're going to be masters still or I would have serious issues with being called that for especially for a brand like Woodford Reserve or or any of our brown Forman brands that have some much weight behind them. Um, it's just a title to me that I look to and I think of somebody like Chris Morris, who is a it has lived and breathed bourbon and whiskey his entire life. And it's not just about running stills, anybody can learn that skill. You really can you 23:20 think anybody can run a still. 23:23 If you have the right manuals, and you go out and you spend time training. Now you can't just walk in off the street and do this. No. But can you learn anybody can learn how to do that. A lot of people can learn maybe not anybody, 23:35 but there's a lot of people in backwoods that have stills before 23:41 you can learn how to do these skills. And but there's time and thought and experience that goes into something that really makes you want to believe that your product like what Chris Morris, I mean, what he's done for Woodford Reserve is unreal. You look at the like we sit down and we talk about things and we talked about brand planning. He introduced like, was he there for the start of the actual bourbon. No, that was he was with a different company at the time. But when he came in, we have right we have our masters collection that came out you have our malt you have wheat that's coming out soon. And that's not all out of just willy nilly. Like ma this would be fun. It's it's a lot of it is well thought out when you look at history. And when you look at what's the plan we we talked about flavor with Woodford and I mean, that's his genius and experience in the industry that led him to that path and that guided vision for brand and that takes nothing but time. I mean time is Yeah, I think is so hear 24:45 what you're saying there like with with with branding and everything like that. I think we don't know, as a society when I when I say society, I mean bourbon society. What a master distiller in so Chris, I'll bring that to you. What is a master distiller because it meant something in the 1800s and the 1950s? It means something different today. What is a master distiller? 25:12 Well, of course there is no, there is no criteria. In terms of industry, there's no set of requirements. As I mentioned earlier, it varies from company to company. And I believe ground Coleman believes. Number one, you're responsible for the overall quality of the product that your name is associated with the distillery associated with. And as Elizabeth said, that means a whole lot. If you're our colleague, Jeff Barnett at jack daniels, you're the master distiller of jack daniels. That's sort of important. Woodford Reserve, my gosh, old Forester, you know, those are important brands, not only to our company, but to the history of our industry. So there's there's a lot of gravitas, there, there's a lot of response ability. And also, I think it means your brands that you have helped create and develop, have won awards are recognized as good brands, you're, you're a master of what your master of a brand that is acknowledged to be of the utmost quality. You haven't won an award. I don't know how you can be a master yet. But again, that's our opinion, not a global opinion of any degree. 26:27 So again, I think it's a nice baseline. I mean, Kenny, wouldn't you agree that it's at least a baseline for what is a master distiller you have to have a wonderful an award when you have so many? 26:39 I don't know. I mean, you kind of you kind of take the anti part of that, right? I know that you're you're a judge at San Francisco, and then you've got the other group of bourbon enthusiasts out there that say, don't don't take that as as gospel. Right. You take that as as a as a way that you can start learning about a spirit or anything like that. But when you see gold, double gold. 27:01 Well, in fairness, I wasn't thinking about San Francisco. Question. I was thinking of like best bourbon at San Francisco, or, I mean, one of the three medals there. I 27:13 think that's what Chris was thinking to, or I could just pay off the 27:15 Forbes writer that I know Yeah. 27:20 Let me add maybe as a close to this, or we continue. But that's one thing brown Forman and the Kentucky distillers Association because this was the this was a subject of discussion years ago with the the membership, and we don't think anyone company organization can define or impose any restrictions on the rest of the industry. As Fred said, if a little startup distillery wants to call its whatever person master distiller that's up to them, that's fine brown Coleman is not gonna say you can't do that. It's not our job to improve punk upon the industry, our opinions. This is America, we don't do that. So I think the ultimate, the ultimate, the bottom line is, our brand speaks for itself. 28:13 Does it taste good? 28:15 Good. taste. I think that's fair for for the professional side. But now we're starting to see like this growth within like, the bar community. And everybody's saying they're an expert, about whiskey. And you in and Kenny brought up, you know, the judging competitions and what is best. There was just a gas station whiskey, that one world's best whiskey. And I seriously question how that one, you know, and I'm a judge or a lot of those things. And I and I know like people have to pay entry to get in that. So there could have been like a low point of entry, there might not have been a lot of, well, Chris, what do you think about like this rise of so called x books that are tasting things and putting their names on on things and hosting podcast hosting podcast, 29:09 full disclosure, we always say, and we 29:12 never ever named a whiskey of the year, you to have never done anything like that. So like, now we're in a situation where there are 1500 different, you know, whiskey, Somali A's, or experts or whatever. And, you know, they're not coming from the ilk of brown Forman. And you may even think that I'm that, too. But I'm curious as to what your thought is, in terms of like the people who are tasting. Consider the tasters of the community, 29:41 I would just be curious to know I mean, for me, like, you know, we're tasting and we want to know quality. Do you know what are the all the defects you can find in bourbon, whiskey distillate? And when you find them, like, Can you describe like, well, what did they taste like? What are those those defects? Where did they come from in the production process? How do you troubleshoot and work around that and get through all of that, and 30:09 I guess it important to know how to fix it, or it's just important to spot it as a taster. 30:14 As a taster, you probably don't have to know that if you're going to be a master distiller, you have to know how to do that. 30:19 But a taster can't fix it. Because it's already the 30:22 case. Yeah, you're tasting it at the end of the year. It's already out there too late, I guess. But you could maybe you could talk about but if you're a taster, you should know. I don't know. I mean, will will does this as if it's a new mic. Does it stay in new mic? What happens to that defect? Does it age out? Is it something that and so if you're tasting it something at New make and then you're tasting something? That's a finished product or maturing? How do you troubleshoot it on that end? If you don't know where it comes from in the production process? I don't know. I don't those things are important, I guess because my background and where I 30:56 that's an interesting question. Are you talking about how it push through the age and improve? How How much does that like experience like with Chris, are you like, you know, that like, what are those some of those notes? I guess that you're like, well, that 31:10 that is this is going to eventually work itself out? That's where 31:13 experience helps. Yeah, but sometimes you're surprised either positively or negatively. But that's an interesting point that everybody's bringing up. How has this person this expert been trained? As Elizabeth said, we're professionally trained, we're trained. We have PhDs on staff for professional professionals in the sensory science. Elizabeth is a sensory scientist, has her beginnings at Brown Forman. We have sensory science consultants come and test us and work with us. So we're, and these just aren't whiskey sensory scientists, they work for food on aroma only like perfume companies. These are experts, and sensor science. And so it surprises me and sometimes alarms me. When we taste a whiskey, and we note, defects. And a person critiquing that whiskey is just singing its praises. And you're like, there's these obvious defects in the whiskey. And this person either doesn't understand them doesn't recognize them, and 32:25 what they want in their 32:26 whiskey or they like defects. And so things become more complicated, Fred, when I almost had when I started the industry, because there was nothing like this in the industry. But when early books Gary and Marty Reagan and way Mac and Harris and the legendary Michael Jackson are starting to write about whiskey when nobody's right about whiskey. 32:52 It was a very tight 32:54 sorority and fraternity of whiskey riders and everybody knew each other. There weren't that many whiskeys. You know, there were a handful of Bourbons a handful of this. And they had there was nothing that we see today pre micro distillery movement. And pretty much everybody was on the same page, you understood what you're talking about, right? And as bourbon and rye and whiskeys have become popular, and everybody jumps on, which is fun. Again, that sort of dilutes the level expertise. And I think today, people well can be self styled experts, but what is their their base. So again, we leave that to the consumer. To the side, somebody says something good about a brand new glass of whiskey, try it, if you like it good for you, if you don't learn from it. So we can't impose upon the entire industry. Our views, again, we just have to hope people pay attention to what for reserve and what we're doing and, and go from there. 34:00 So I kind of want to educate some of the listeners and the watchers out there. Because, you know, you've talked about and both of you have talked about trying to find defects and whether it's in new maker whether it's in aging whiskey, and you know, today we brought these, I'm going to put words or words in Elizabeth now here, we brought our Bourbons to compete is because last time we talked, you said that compete is where sort of the, the way that you like to use in the tasting room to kind of get the most flavors, Adam because of the tool of shape and stuff like that. But I kind of want to pick your brain a little bit. What if there's somebody that's at home, and they're listening? And they want to try to understand what flavors to pull? And what are those possible defects that they're buying, or they're finding. Now, of course, not coming in at Woodford Reserve or this double out. It's definitely not going to be in this. But however they're going to go and they're going to find some random bottle you ever heard about and they're gonna buy it? And they're going to taste it and be like, Oh, what is this? So what what are those some of those of those flavor, those notes that you really think are the biggest defects that 35:04 that any good master distiller should be able to find. And before Elizabeth jumps in, again, we're looking at two sides of the coin, the first four sources of flavor, which is our mantra of the five sources, what is the water, the grain, the fermentation distillation bring to the palate. So that's our new make our new spirit. So we judge that. So it has a set of criteria. And we're looking, of course, you never look for good things, because you, you assume the good things are there. So we do look for defects. And at that point is too late, unless there's a certain defect, or saying forget this. But we want to know that defect is there as we barrel and then adjust as we go forward. But we use those defects to then go back into the distillery and say, something's not working here. Let's fix it, because where do you go to first to fix it? What do you like? 36:00 This is probably mostly the 36:02 reverse engineering part of it was 36:03 that you go to grain you go to fermentation, you go to distillation, yet one of the one of the three, the water, the water is going to be solid. And then we go into the would go into the barrel for maturation. And then of course, 678 years later, there could be different defects, because now the wood character has come into play. So it depends on where we are that we're looking for certain defects. Because as Elizabeth said, some of the new mech defects can be overcome by maturation. They're still there, you just don't know them because the wood has taken lead wrong, but you don't want them there in the first place. So we now have two places to adjust. New make means we adjust the distillery but what's in what's there can't be adjusted. But we can do that on a week basis. Years later, we adjust by bashing barrels together. So we can fix what we have in front of us except for one defect which is unfixable and, and go forward from there. So bad, she becomes very important, you know, a couple of barrels of this with 98 barrels of that are going to be okay. We don't like that. But it's 37:25 just one one bad apple makes them all bad. There's the one defect that we can't hide it. We can't hide 37:31 it. And what is that? Oh, my god yesterday. That's right. Jackie told us. We probably 37:37 got a little bit of that going on with all this rain right now. A lot of mas probably going in those non Pete cycle. Yeah. warehouses. 37:45 Yeah. Or if you have a leaky roof. 37:48 I got I want to switch gears a little bit for a second. 37:53 Brown Forman is such a dominant American whiskey company. And then last, like I'd say, 10 years there's been a such a dynamic effort to pull in malts like to try and do like, not necessarily a single malt, but some kind of like malt mash, or the five malt released from a few years ago. And I was and I know your passion, you have so much passion for single malt scotches. You have a you have a real like, craving for those and sometimes, Chris, but are we going to see a stronger effort from Brown Forman on the American single malt category that's just taking off and I know we've had some releases of late, but are we going to see more of that? 38:45 Yes, that let Elizabeth talk about our particular products. But 38:51 yes, I'm a big fan of single malt Scotch, if that upsets anyone, I'm sorry. 38:57 He's not really sorry. 39:00 And of course, brown Forman owns three single malt Scotch distilleries, which we Elizabeth and I visited back in July that we're just so proud of that. But I am the only Kentucky bourbon distiller who's a keeper of the quake. I'm the only Kentucky bourbon distilleries been honored by the Scotch whisky Association, which I'm very proud of. So scotch whiskey, of course, is our is our ancestor, you know, the bourbon tradition is, is the evolution of scotch whiskey evolving in Kentucky, in the 1770s through the 1850s based on our environment, so we love We love that, that that touchstone of Scotland and Ireland are is where our tradition comes from. But we released a Masters collection as as this group knows, and maybe many of the listeners do not know we released a Masters collection do I many years ago, that was 100% single malt, or hundred percent malt question say that was our distillers malt, it wasn't painted. It wasn't smoked. It was the same malt we make our wood reserve bourbon with. And we distilled that 100% malt fermentation and inner half of the volume produced and used Woodford Reserve barrels so they'd held Woodford Reserve bourbon one time. And then we barrel the other half of the volume produced a new with reserve barrels. And that became season seasoned malt and new cast some silly name. I can't remember what we called it, because we didn't want to call it single malt. Because at that time, if you said single malt and probably to this day, if you say single malt people immediately go to Scott. Hello malt. Yeah, you know, some 40:58 change up the verbiage and malt 41:00 and they weren't. They didn't. They weren't very popular. 41:05 You know, I remember the, some of those like, there was one classic malt. 41:11 Right. Thank you for remembering. Yes. 41:15 And there was classic malt in there straight malt. I can't remember which one I like more. He has a good memory. 41:22 But I liked one of them more than the other classic was 41:25 that you liked the I liked the the straight malt. I knew Cooper edge. 41:31 It might have been but, 41:33 you know, 41:34 I've always and I wrote this in one of my reviews. And and I have to tell you, Chris, I've always appreciated the fact that if I've ever been critical of your stuff, you've never taken me to dinner and yelled at me for an hour. 41:46 I've never taken a dinner. Yeah. But 41:52 I'm one of them. I was just like, what and what in that review set I the one that I didn't care as much for I think said I wish they would do more focus on bourbon. And the thing is, is that you all are such brilliant bourbon distillers. I wonder why it is that there's such a fashion fascination for making malts work. Okay, 42:18 well, so the malls came out. And of course 10 years ago who was buying bottles of would reserve masters collection, bourbon drinkers. And bourbon drinkers don't drink scotch by and large. And so it didn't go over very well. And I can understand that they wanted bourbon. They wanted seasoned oak finish, they wanted to cinema cherish Chardonnay finish, they wanted sweet mash, and we forward Don't forget 401k. And we sort of let them down, which is the way it goes. But we learned a lot in terms of the process of making malt heavy whiskey. And in my bottom line, lonely was going back to our earlier conversation of taste, he's just sort of boring. He's just sort of boring. Hundred percent malt again, we don't have this smoky that PD characteristics of some of the European malt or Japanese malt. And we're not, we're not aging for 20 3040 years, and we don't have port pipes, cherry butts, it was all American oak. And they were sort of born. That doesn't mean that they didn't taste good, but they were sort of born. And that learning leads to our new release of last year, Kentucky straight malt whiskey, which is a permanent member of our family. It will be coming back this late spring, early summer. 43:42 And it's it's a member of the family. So Elizabeth, have you been doing well? 43:45 Oh, yeah. 43:47 Yeah, it's been doing really well. We released it last June. And 43:51 it all sold out right away. I mean, people were like, six months later, like, Can we are you making more like, what's the deal? And, you know, Chris, and I get approached like, well, how can we make this you know, get get to the shelves a little quicker? Can we adjust something with our process or our quality? You know, we're like, Nope, can't do that. But we humored them and we put it into a little bit in the last Oh, there's a lot of pressure for that because 44:16 what 1910 from old for sir, 44:18 there's a lot of pressure because people really like we put out good products at Brown Forman if you didn't know and people get excited about it. But you know, the job of a master distiller you know, is to say no, I mean Chris's name is on that bottle. So you know, at the end of the day, yep, it's when things go wrong. They're like Chris and that was you know, he's the one who has to talk about it. And so when with the mall, it was very popular we did a Kentucky straight malt whiskey and we fought for it to stay at the process where we released it that we released that and because the taste you even a year makes it mean that there's a time difference with agent you know, you've got to let it go to what it should be. I got a 45:06 question dinner up just because I'm clueless about Malton. And I assume you're making these malts are you doing them in the call a copper still or Chi Stiller. 45:16 Yeah, it's both and they both okay. It is a if we're going to produce something and put it under the distiller select Woodford Reserve distillers select bourbon rye malt wheat that's coming out soon is always going to be that that batches of column and pot still because that's 45:30 all I'm from Shively and then the pots from were for sale. 45:36 Yes, yes. Because because we were tasting some Kings County I was Tom and it's a 80% corn 20% malted barley and we thought we were tasting like young younger notes and their distiller said hey, that's not younger knows that's our our pot still. And it's creating like some different buttery for me kind of funky flavors. And so I 45:58 like stuff figuring it out. Yeah. 45:59 So I was curious to get your take on that. Like, you know, funk. 46:02 He's not one of our don't say 46:04 funky. Okay. No, I was just curious. But 46:07 no, I mean, I think that I wasn't around at the beginning of starting our pot stills. But from those that I've spoken to figuring out how to run your pot stills is a challenge. We have gotten to a point with Woodford Reserve we've got it figured out. done all the hard work over the years to figure it out. But the notes you get from a pot still are big, bold, oily notes. You see the grain come through more. I mean, Chris, if you wanted to add it, I mean, that's there's a distinct difference between the two types of dis focus 46:37 on we normally use them wrong. Yeah. 46:42 You know, you don't you don't use it very often whiskey. 46:45 Yeah. 46:46 But if you're gonna it's probably coming from a pot still. Yeah, no distillation level pots. 46:54 But here's here's a fun bit of our story. And Elizabeth will tell you about our recipe is one thing that I've drawn on from inspiration is the history and heritage of our industry in Kentucky and certainly brown Foreman's history and heritage and started research on malt multi malt whiskey in the history of Kentucky. And one thing, brown Forman has a tremendous archive again for the the oldest spirits company in America 140 849 ish years old right now. We've got a wonderful archive it which is housed at the Frazier History Museum. And we have a we have a complete set of the wine and spirits journals from from the 19th and early 20th century, much less our own documents. And we found that there were there were malt whiskies made in Kentucky before prohibition, brown Forman had a brand called marrow malt MAROW. And when you look at the old Sanborn Maps, which are diagrams, schematics of distilleries for insurance purposes, you'll see these at the University of Kentucky at the Phil center, University of Louisville. And of course, in our collection, we see that the original brown Forman distillery had a mult floor and a malt kiln. We were sort of we were a Scottish distillery in the 19th century. And that's incredible. And that in the history of our state, their first Malthouse, and remember, we don't have a malt house in Kentucky any longer. The first multi operation in Kentucky 1785. Before we were Kentucky, is in Woodford County. So I thought what better provenance than a brown Forman brand made in Woodford County to be what is now the only Kentucky straight malt whiskey on the market, or Woodford Reserve malt is the only one of it's a 48:56 miracle. 48:57 That may be true. But folks crave the bourbon. And as they 49:02 as they did back all goes back to birthday. 49:09 Hey, it's Kenny here. And I want to tell you about an event that's happening on Saturday, August 24. Because I want to see you in historic downtown Frankfort, Kentucky, at bourbon on the banks. It's the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. There's live music and over 100 vendors of food, beer, wine, and of course, bourbon. But guess what even will be there in the bourbon pursuit booth. You can check out all the events including tastings with the master distillers that you've heard on the show before and the People's Choice Award for the Best bourbon out there. You can get your all inclusive ticket for $65. Plus, you can join on the free Friday night event. Go and check it out bourbon on the banks.org you've probably heard of finishing beer using whiskey barrels but Michigan distillery is doing the opposite. They're using barrels to finish their whiskey. New Holland spirits claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey. The folks at Rock house whiskey club heard that claim and had to visit the banks of Lake Michigan to check it out. It all began when New Holland brewing launched in 97. Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out in 2005. They apply their expertise from brewing and began distilling beer barrel finished whiskey began production 2012 and rock house was the club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get filled a dragon's milk with your twice the mature bourbon is finished in those very same barrels. Rocco's whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US. Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rack houses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in over 40 states go to rock house whiskey club com to check it out. And try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursuit for $25 off your first first box 51:03 that may be true but folks crave the bourbon and as they 51:08 as they did back all goes back to 51:11 bourbon you know I it's hard for me to sustain now 51:15 no no I agree with that. But so Woodford Reserve is the home of innovative whiskeys first and foremost that's the big thing for us is that we can we have the with what our distillery we have the ability to be flexible and to play with Greg sorry, 51:28 but hold on folks. Let's just have a moment for King King Kentucky. I am this is good. Yeah. So good. 51:37 As good as names on 51:41 those labels to 51:42 every every one of these is like man it's just like a trip down like great whiskey bro. Holy shit balls. 51:51 I'm glad I can bring that least you let me open it with some 51:53 goodbye. There's so there's so many complicated notes in this. I did I know even Yes. And this was one of my This was one of my top whiskies of the year last year. And you know, the craziest thing is I went into like a blind competition. This was like my front runner to win it but you know how blind tastings go you just you just never know how it's going to go but 52:16 it's so good. 52:19 It's so good. 52:20 Kenny I'm gonna get us back my buddies get us back on the rails here. Because you were kind of interrupted her because she was kind 52:27 of talking I'm sorry I apologize. 52:31 bourbon like it is 52:32 because she started she 52:34 started going I love Barbara What can I say? That wrong? 52:37 Yes, drinking a beer. So 52:38 what I'm saying is that we're the home of innovative whiskeys and so we do a lot of really fun things and I you know, with the with our malt whiskey, we are 51% malt 47% corn and just 2% right, so we're right close to that bourbon requirement. You know, 47% corn, you know, the way malt is a gateway mall. But the thing is, is that yes, it's a gateway market who really knows you know, what, what is American mall? At this point in time? We're still defining what that really means. It's not it 53:09 was the marrow balter. Do you know the recipe that 53:13 was on your corn book? 53:16 Pick up a glass slipper. 53:19 What is American mall? There's actually incredible debate about that. I think the greatest mall producer in this country is Lance winters from St. George he's been making American mall you know since the 90s. Or there abouts legally 53:36 but it's not a category I mean, like it's not a category it's not something that people are really seeking out so why why do we produce these things and bourbon is is Woodford big thing Why are we producing more Why are we introducing we were introducing what why are you introducing this makes no sense. We are flexing the muscle muscle in fact that Woodford Reserve is the home of innovative whiskeys and we can play in flavor. It's all flavor so you look at our Woodford Reserve distiller select product and it's balanced and complex you can find 212 flavors in a glass of Woodford Reserve bourbon buy them all 54:13 start with the eighth at the gold order go 54:16 within you get into 54:17 acid TO acid 54:22 within you look at him and everything is done with purpose. I told you earlier Chris Morris is a genius when it comes to bourbon and understanding it and when we're planning out Woodford Reserve it's not just all willy nilly like oh, wouldn't it be fun to do a mall? How cool nobody else is doing it? Let's do that. No, it is thought out because you look at we got our distiller slick bourbon which hits all five areas of flavor. Then you have our double oak which came out in 2012. It's sweet, aromatic forward, it hits that we want you to know we want you to taste sweet aromatics. Then we've got our rye which is spice forward trying to hit that area of flavor. Then you've got our malt which is this grain wood notes coming through and then with our wheat will complete it with our our fruit forward notes, but then also going back to 1939 when they establish the TTP establish what are the four types of American whiskey, bourbon rye, malt wheat we're hitting all those so not only are we covering flavor, but we're also looking at from a historical standpoint as well. 55:27 Yeah. And you're doing a lot of the experimentation that hopefully bourbon geeks are really trying to trying to harness and on because you do it, you do it you know the you have the standard, you've got your double load but then you also have your distiller select series, right? These these sort of one offs that people really kind of they gravitate towards because it's something you knew is something unique. What's been the the latest one that has come out that that sort of garnered some attention? 55:51 Well, the latest one is our good old favorite. 55:53 Double, double, double, double, double, 55:56 double. Okay, okay, I don't know how many doubles we're on now. 55:59 It's just double double it's it's double ups but ah words of the 12 months 24 months. But man, I mean, it's, it's a totally shifts the flavor profile completely from our double oak. And people are obsessed with this. 56:15 How many? How many when you start taking over how many doubles are going to be on this? 56:19 Well, I just want to interject here like there was I got my Christina the story. I my wisdom teeth taken out one year. And I like where this is I died after for like three months, I couldn't taste anything. The only thing that I can taste from like that I could assess was double oak, and double double oak. And it is what I think barrel finishing is the hardest thing to do in American whiskey right now to put out like a really good product because you can screw it up so easily. And what they you have done with double o n double a double double. 57:04 Double yeah. Oh, 57:05 yeah. As I say we're getting some data is so hard to do it. I know. I am sure you guys went through a lot of batches to get that flavor. Right. But my God, is it? Does it feel like a dessert on the palate? Oh, no. Does it feel like dessert? Well, 57:22 thank you, Fred. That now to Fred's point. Barrel finishing has been around for quite a long time. Give Dr. Bill Lumsden who I'm very familiar with at Glen Margie as the the modern father of barrel finishing back in the early 90s. But when all of us because we finished we finished with reserve, as you all know and our masters collection and cinema treasures Chardonnay barrels and Pino voir barrels. We didn't make those barrels. They were used before it's and I'm a good prayer. finishes are typically completed in barrels that came from somebody else and had been used before. So in the development of double oat, we have created the first and only whiskey in the world finished in a barrel made specifically for it. by it. Having our own brown Forman coupe bridge has allowed us to make a second barrel brand new charred on the inside to finish Woodford Reserve specifically and it took two years to develop. And we take full limiter, Woodford finish it in the second barrel for up to a year, as Elizabeth said, and we have double hooks, it's the only whiskey in the world scotch Irish, Japanese, you name it, the only whiskey in the world that has been in two barrels, the original in the finish barrel that were both new made for it by its own its own coop bridge that's unique. And as Elizabeth said, we're in that second barrel for approximately one year for the word preserved double o double double we go two years in the flavor changes, but it's the 59:14 same barrel for two years. Yes, you don't leave the barrel. It's that 59:18 I think there's a misconception that there's two barrels. 59:21 And then we Yes, we have gone three years we have gone for years. And is it triple double is a quadruple double what we're going to call it, but we have decided that that flavor profile gets a little too intense, a little too far afield from what we want. And we have decided that double double is as far as we go career. So we continue to experiment. You may have said this and I apologize if you did. I was 59:47 distracted because somebody had a question online and like I was like trying to get it over here. But somebody was asking, Is there two different type of char levels on each barrel? 59:56 Yes, yes. So 59:58 you didn't say it did you know? 1:00:01 Alright, sweet, so you're gonna hear it right now. 1:00:03 But that's also what makes it so great. And the fact that we have our own Cooper is so we can build our own barrels I always jokingly call it couture barreling because we're making barrels specifically for each brand. And so with the with the double ocean we started out we have our Woodford Reserve distiller select barrel which is going to be a nine month seasoning, we do a 10 minute toast and 25 second char on that barrel, then that's age five to seven years then we go into our double oak barrel. The double oak barrel has the nine months seasoning a 40 minute toast and a five to 10 second char. So we're flash charging as we like to call it. But what we're doing is a long toasting process which gets into the lignin layer of the wood, which is where a lot of the Van Halen lives. So when you knows double oak to get those they've only been what's been battling, battling. 1:00:51 Battling 1:00:52 Okay, sorry, nella Sorry, no, that's okay. 1:00:54 I'm an idiot. I just 1:00:56 that's why it's 1:00:58 so that that's kind of where you get all those really really sweet aromatic notes. And you're going to find that with WOQU you get the color too. So it's really getting 1:01:09 so Elizabeth you and Chris, this is going to be exciting conversation probably just for the two of us here on the on this will start one over here. 1:01:22 But you talked about how you're the only distillery that has their own Cooper HO of 1:01:27 our size if you want to go there 1:01:30 with no no I'm no I mean, Elizabeth on our side. 1:01:36 So that story starts in like the 1940s when there's a lot of these acquisitions going on from the larger parent companies of the time, national Shanley you know Sega drums a lot of these kind of companies, brown Forman, instead of those companies were out there acquiring distilleries that could not meet the mandate for making alcohol for the war effort. instead of chasing that carrot instead of chasing those distillers to buy independent distillers they were purchasing Cooper juice. And when they did that, they kind of got themselves a lump in hundred 1:02:20 and 50 years, 1:02:22 we're going on ground for me. It just it was like it was like one of these brilliant business moves in the 40s and 50s. And then they later acquired a little company called jack daniels. Yep. You know, I mean, so there's like, all this week. business acumen within brown Forman and I always like when I hear you all talk about like, we're the only distillery that has our own Cooper bridge. I think of the guy who was in a boardroom, who thought in the 1940s is like, Hey, why are we going after distilleries when we can get what everybody needs? And that's the Beryl. 1:03:00 You know, Fred, that's a good point. I've never really heard that story. And I don't know if Chris if anybody knows it, Chris would know that story of just because that's probably like the Woodford Reserve story when it the Bourbons giants like hey, we want to acquire we want to buy a bourbon distillery and start a new brand and people are like, Are you crazy? So I'm sure it's the same kind of thought with our with our Cooper's? 1:03:21 Well, Fred was that was certainly pointing in the right direction. So coming out of the Second World War, the big distilleries, the big companies I should say, who had many distilleries, Shin Lacey firms national Linh more, and others had their own Cooper, just all in local or the local region. And they were making their own barrels. And that men barrels were hard to come by there is a fierce demand and therefore a fierce competition for barrels. And small independent companies. Were having a difficult time. So as Les Brown, the first son of our founder, George Garvin Brown, decided, well, we need to have our own Cooper edge if we're going to survive. And that led to the purchase of a wood making plant in the Highland Park neighborhood of Lobel that had been making of all things, plywood for the war effort. And it made rifle stocks. It had been a furniture factory. And we purchased that wood making plant and converted it to a coop bridge. So we were just one of many distilleries at the time that had its own Cooper edge. So it wasn't abnormal. It wasn't a big deal. It was sort of norm but 1:04:45 it was a step. It was a step toward the direction that you all became in the 50s you acquired 1:04:52 jack daniels and then and then by and large, those big famous distilling companies went out of business. Their brands were broken up there, distillers were there distilleries were closed and consolidated and little brown Forman kept plugging along. And here we are now today, as the only major whiskey company in the world. There are some small companies that make their own barrels, but we're talking tiny, tiny companies, but we make all our own new barrels. And that has allowed us to expand and develop the range of jack daniels products. Old forester obviously Woodford Reserve the unique barrels that Elizabeth told us about king of Kentucky Cooper's craft. Again, it's amazing to think that we're not the biggest whiskey company in the world by any stretch of the imagination. We are the top five but only and only we make our own barrels. And then when those barrels are sold on the open market, because we use them only once for our products. And certainly what for barrels are in high demand double oak barrels are in super high demand on the open market, from brewers, wineries, tequila producers, rum producers and whiskey producers of any strike. That brown Forman supplies annually, half the US barrels to the world. Wow. So there's not a scotch whiskey, there's probably not a rum, tequila, etc. That doesn't have a little Woodford Reserve, brown Coleman flavor in it years from now as they age their products. So our flavor is, is very much in demand. 1:06:31 So that's a that's actually pretty awesome, because you got some history there. And I kind of want to even bring the history up just a little bit too today as we started kind of close this out. And Fred sort of jumped the gun a little bit because we are we poured some king of Kentucky and Fred and myself we are at the the media gathering for it, we got to be there with you, as you kind of gave us a breakdown of the history. And really what this means is brown form is coming out with a new product. So I kind of want you to talk a little bit about what is in and I guess just give it like a 32nd overview of like what is king of Kentucky most of the whiskey geeks out here already know what it is, but kind of talk about what the future of this product line is going to be as well. 1:07:10 Well, we want to be transparent about the king good tequila. And you guys remember we told we told everyone we're very proud of it this this new make began as early times it's it's 79% corn 11% raw 10% malt, early Tams yeast. If we bottled it at four years old, it would have been early times hold another 10 years, it becomes something completely different. And holding a barrel that long for us whether it's Woodford Reserve, early times old forester is extremely special because we heat cycle our warehouses. And you can virtually double the age when Liz was said we're making with reserve from 5678 year barrels batch together, that's 10 1214 year old barrels based on the maturation profile because heat Cycling is an aggressive maturation process that dates back to the 1870s. So can give Kentucky this 14 year old bottle as a 28 year age persona. But it's not 28 years of course, it's 14 years. So it is chemically made sure we analyze the King and I showed everyone the chemical signature which is the molecular flavor structure versus early times four year old one 100 proof bottle and bond is completely different. So again, transparent how it was made. This is a revitalization or return of an old label king of Kentucky which goes back into the 1880s Why did you choose this 1:09:01 label because you guys have a plethora of 1:09:07 fantastic labels in Kenya why not bring back marrow I kind of like that. That would be cool. You know? 1:09:16 Well there's there's several reasons and

Michael Bennett fills in for Tom and talks with Nick Mingione, Chris Fisher, Elizabeth McCall and Jesse Ullery for the latest in UK sports.

In honor of the Kentucky Derby tomorrow, I spoke with ELIZABETH MCCALL, the newly named ASSISTANT MASTER DISTILLER at the "Official Bourbon of the Kentucky Derby" - WOODFORD RESERVE. We spoke about her trajectory from psychology student to sensory scientist and Master Taster, to one of the youngest female distillers in the country. This week's cocktail is, of course, the Mint Julep, made with Woodford Reserve Bourbon.  Mint Julep2 oz Woodford Reserve Bourbon ½ oz Simple syrup (equal parts sugar and water)3 Fresh mint leaves Crushed Ice Rub the fresh mint inside the glass to express the oils. In the same glass, add simple syrup, bourbon, and half a glass of crushed ice. Stir well. Add more ice and garnish with the rest of the mint. links:  Woodford Reserve Elizabeth McCall's Instagram   Woodford Reserve's Social Links: Instagram Facebook Twitter   Bit by a Fox: blog: http://bitbyafox.com instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bitbyafox/ facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BitByAFox/ twitter: https://twitter.com/bitbyafox   music: https://www.humanworldwide.com

Today on the show, Steve and Jeremy interview Brown-Forman’s new Assistant Master Distiller Elizabeth McCall. Today’s show was sponsored by Steve Akley’s book, Mules and More (https://goo.gl/EN3wEj) and by Flaviar, the online whiskey club for the explorer at heart (https://flaviar.com). The Bourbon Show music (Whiskey on the Mississippi) is by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Check us out at: abvnetwork.com. Join the ABV Network Revolution by adding #ABVNetworkCrew to your profile in social media.

  Distillers like to say they're not making whisky for themselves, but laying it down for future generations. Part of that process is identifying the young distillers who may be asked to take over for them one day, and this week, that process put Woodford Reserve's future in much clearer perspective. Brown-Forman promoted Elizabeth McCall from her role as Woodford's Master Taster to Assistant Master Distiller, putting her on the track to eventually take over for current Master Distiller Chris Morris one day. McCall's story is unique - not because she's a second-generation whisky maker, but because she followed her mother into the whisky business. She'll share her story and her goal of encouraging other young women to consider science careers on this week's WhiskyCast In-Depth. This week, we're on location in the Boston suburb of Westborough, Massachusetts for the annual Go Whisk(e)y Weekend at Julio's Liquors, and we'll have details on another marriage between music and whiskey as the rock giants of Metallica are teaming up with veteran distiller Dave Pickerell to create not just their own whiskey, but build their own distillery as well! We'll also have details on Ardbeg's new expansion plans and some hints about this year's Ardbeg Committee bottling, along with a first look at Laphroaig's annual Cairdeas release and new entries in the Bottled in Bond American Whiskey category.

Elizabeth McCall is a whiskey master taster, sensory scientist and Kentucky native. This week she sits down with Gourmet Traveller’s Pat Nourse and a few bottles of Woodford Reserve.

Elizabeth McCall, Sensory Scientist and Master Taster at Brown-Forman, joins the show to share what happens behind the white curtain and how people with a psychologist degree are recruited into bourbon. Talk about your past, growing up and your education What got you into brown spirits Did you have family influences or connections to the spirits industry? So I have to be honest, we have done the rounds with Master Distillers and they always give credit to people like you, but lets get an idea of your day to day responsibilities What else happens in the lab? we need to give our listeners an idea of what’s happening behind the curtain so-to-speak So why psychologists for being sensory scientists? go deeper there What’s the most important sense when it comes to making a product consistent? What does catching a cold have on the influence of the bourbon your doing that day? or do you have an addiction to Afrin nasal decongestant? What sort of training goes into becoming a master taster? From Matt Fisher on Facebook: Super nerdy and specific. With most bourbon drinkers using Glencairn glasses at home, why does the distillery use Copita Nosing glasses vs the Glencairn? Looking for an expert opinion of why they use the Copita. I watched part of your presentation of change and you gave a good explanation of why people mix their bourbon with coke, explain that Talk about your other passion of horses  

This broadcast is a favorite legacy show that we produced under our old name Travel'n On and before re-branding as WORLD FOOTPRINTS. Saddle up with Tonya and Ian as they speak to Equestrian Travel expert Elizabeth McCall about the best places to horseback ride on the Big Island.