Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

My friend Greg Price (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019. In this episode, Greg talks the history of the Church approach to homosexuality—going from the behavior model (it's a choice) to *mostly* the biological model (it's not a choice). Greg's book documents when the Church started talking about this (1960's), what was said, the impact, and how we have gradually moved to where we are today. Greg talks about these painful chapters (including when just identifying as gay would get your excommunicated and expelled for Church schools). To understand the road our LGBTQ members and their families are walking, I believe it is important to understand where we have come from—which is sobering as we learn the reality of early days and the impact of LGBTQ members and their families. Further, I think it helps our minds and hearts be open to the need to continue to bring more understand and support—as I feel we are not at the finish line as we work to expand the boarders of Zion. Episode Two will focus on the Church LGBTQ legal efforts (starting with Hawaii in the 1990s) to where we are today. Thank you Greg for being on the podcast and all your efforts to bring more understanding and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families. Links: Greg's Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7Q8QZB

My friends Daniel Carter and Devan Jensen join us to share the story behind the beautiful new hymn “Long Ago, Within a Garden,” with text by Devan and music by Daniel, written in 1999 and added in February 2026 to Hymns—For Home and Church (no. 1210). Daniel, who worked in the Church Curriculum Department for 27 years before retiring in 2016, opens up about his personal journey. After coming out as gay, he made the decision to resign his membership—not out of anger, but as a step toward healing and “returning to love.” He shares moving insights about his path to self-acceptance, grace, peace, and his deep respect for others. Daniel is now married to his husband, Gale, and continues to express love for his Latter-day Saint roots and community. Devan, an active Latter-day Saint who worked alongside Daniel, reflects on their friendship and creative collaboration. They share their perspectives on the meaningful process of bringing this hymn to life. Elder Gérald Caussé Plays the Piano and Speaks About New Hymn, in Versailles, February 2026 (see show notes). The podcast then shifts as Daniel shares about his decision to resign his membership from the Church—and how that was not out of anger but his path to “heal and return to love.” Daniel shares his love for his Latter-day Saint roots and his community. Daniel talks about his journey to find love, self-acceptance, grace, peace, and respect for others—incredible moving insights. Devan talks about his support for his friend and their work together to create this song. This episode is really twofold: The inspiring story of the creation of a new hymn that will bless many lives Daniel's deeply personal journey toward hope, acceptance, and peace—and their lasting friendship Thank you, Daniel and Devan, for your music, your honesty, and your example of being peacemakers. Your story helps us stay connected as one human family. Links: Link to hymn: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/music/songs/long-ago-within-a-garden?lang=eng About the hymn: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/sacred-music-gospel-study-resource-pilot/1210-long-ago-within-a-garden?lang=eng Elder Gérald Caussé: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Lvr2sFzDE Daniel's YouTube on “Psalms from the Ruins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnLqw5DBApQ&list=RDbnLqw5DBApQ&start_radio=1 Daniel's bio page: https://www.danielcartermusic.com/bio Daniel's earlier podcast (episode 299): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-299-daniel-carter-lds-composer-and-music-department-employee-same-sex-marriage Devan's inspiration for the hymn: https://devanjensen.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-ago-within-garden.html Devan's earlier podcast (episode 446): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-446-devan-jensen-latter-day-saint-media-and-publishing-association Devan's upcoming Latter-day Saints in Publishing, Media and the Arts conference (Oct 15-17, 2026): https://ldspma.org/2026-ldspma-conference/ (use discount LISTENLEARNLOVE26 for a 20% discount)

My friend Jeff Strong (married father of five, grandfather, former mission president, retired senior executive consumer goods) join us to talk about his new book. Jeff introduces his book with the story of his son Cale leaving the MTC and then leaving the Church—and Jeff's desire to better understand. Jeff's book (with a forward from Steve Young) focuses on: Conducting the largest LDS focused study on disaffiliation (20,000 respondents + interviews) About 40% of those that were active in 2000 have left the church 25 years later The “four patterns” that emerge from the data—super insightful Importance of culture—needs to nourish and create belonging—and how we can do better “It isn't about lower standards; it's about more love” Framing of the tension—four areas Powerful story of reconciliation with his son Cale Jeff's book is so needed in our community—bringing the data forward and then framing it a way that gives us tools and insights to do better. I encourage everyone to read and share this book—and consider what we can do better to create the culture/belonging that Jeff's talks about in his book. Thank you Jeff for writing this book and being on the podcast. You are making a huge difference for good in our community. Links: Jeff's website: www.tornbyjeffstrong.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61588509745251 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tornbyjeffstrong/ Steve Young's Root talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpMJkBbTqB0

My friend Duane Jennings (gay, same-sex marriage, mid-60's, RM from South Africa, Affirmation Leader for 15+ years, author “Stumbling Blocks and Stepping-Stones”) joins us to share his story including: · Journey to understand and accept his sexuality · Serving a mission · Anger and asking God about his sexuality “Told it is OK” · Got involved in Affirmation “Help people spiritually heal” · Been with his husband for 20+ years. · Friends most of the “September Six”—Lavina Fiending Anderson (died in Oct 2023) edited his book · “Stumbling Blocks and Stepping-Stones” Vol 1 and Vol 2 maybe the most comprehensive analysis of all things LDS/LGBTQ through 2016 · How to get a copy of Duane's book Thank you Duane for being on the podcast and especially for all your work over a few decades to bring more understanding and support for our LGBTQ friends. You've made a huge difference for good. Honored to have you on the podcast. You are a good man. Links: Duane's e-mail: UtahSoulforce@aol.com. Duane's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/duane.jennings.2016 Duane's Book Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LatterdaySteppingStones/

My friend Eli McCann (lawyer, University of Utah Law School adjunct professor, Equality Utah and The Road Home board member, married to husband Skylar, father) joins us to talk about his new book published called “We've Thankful for the Moisture, A Gay Guy's Guide to Mormon Faith, Family and Fruit Preservation” Thank you Eli for being on the podcast and sharing about your new book—which is a reflective book—along with some humor—on our unique Mormon culture. I encourage everyone to listen to Eli's podcast and check out his book. Thank you to our friends at The Salt Lake Tribune and Signature Books for making this book possible. Thank you Eli for all your good work in our community to build bridges and help others. Your work brings a smile to my face. You are a beautiful family. Links: Eli's Book at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Were-Thankful-Moisture-Mormon-Preservation/dp/B0GLSLKYRM

My friend Josh Otani (Master's Degree in Marriage and Family Therapy from Utah State University and a Bachelor's in Psychology with a minor in Family Life from Brigham Young University; active LDS) joins us to talk about: * How to build a healthier tools and perspectives about the sexual part of ourselves * Untangling shame from our sexual part—not something that needs to be “covered up” * It's beautiful, inherent, and life giving * Thoughts are part of our experience—be curious—not your identity * Agency is after our thoughts—act within our value system * Working through betrayal trauma (ourselves and our role to help others) * Developing “safety and security” in a marriage comes at a price—the price of being vulnerable * Discussion of how to create a culture of vulnerability * Being a peacemaker—fresh perspective This is a super powerful episode to talk sexual shame and how to develop better tools and perspectives to do better. I wish I had listened to a podcast like this a long time ago—before becoming a parent and in my church assignments. I could have done such a better job to help reduce shame and a much more positive perspective on their road to recovery. Thank you Josh for being on the podcast. You are doing much good in our community. You give me hope. Links: For anyone who would like to connect, feel free to reach out or schedule a 20-minute consultation through the following: Website: https://bigvalleytherapy.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bigvalleytherapy/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@big.valley.therapy?lang=en Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61578825803249 Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/porn-addiction-betrayal-trauma-josh-otani-sandy-ut/1252682 If you're a church leader, please don't hesitate to reach out if you'd like me to come speak with you personally or present to a group (youth, Elders Quorum, etc.).

My friends Andy and Stephanie (LDS parents of 4; living in Vancouver, Washington) join us to share their story. Andy starts with the talk he gave in Church using the line “other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation” from the Family Proclamation to talk about how to better love and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. It is a powerful talk—one of the best I've heard on addressing this important topic—using church leader quotes, Christ teachings, and church resources. Andy received only positive feedback on the talk. Stephanie and Andy then have a discussion around the process to write the talk and things they are doing to be allies in their circle of influence (including starting a local gathering group) to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and those who love them. If you are looking to talk about this subject (in church, family, etc) please listen to and share Andy's talk. It will give you tools, insights, and church quotes to talk about this subject. And if you are LGBTQ, I believe Andy's talk and the work Andy and Stephanie are doing will give you hope. Thank you Andy and Stephanie for being on the podcast and all you are doing to create Zion. You give us all hope. Links: Lift and Love Gathering Groups: https://www.liftandlove.org/gatherings Life and Love Gather Conference (Nov 2026): https://www.liftandlove.org/gather Church Resources You May Not Know About Podcast with Barry Donakey, All Out in the Open S7 E48: https://youtu.be/7Nqs3mk5ZyY?si=-DjlM449wWbSOX6K

**Note: In this episode, Emily talks about being lesbian. In a future episode, Emily talks about being blind** My friend Emily Groves (student of Boise State University, doubling in bio and computer science, active LDS) joins us to share her story. * Journey to understand and accept being lesbian * Break from religion * Coming back to religion—super powerful experience with God confirm she is lesbian * Coming out to her Patriarch prior to her Patriarchal blessing (positive experience) * Coming out to others—possible family reactions * How her feelings about the church vacillate—but trying hard to make it work—loves being in the Church * Work to find/accept her path and grace for others choosing a different path * Probably will marry a woman someday * Open to serving a mission, open to getting endowed—and thoughts around these two decisions Thank you Emily for your courage to share your story. You are awesome—and wise beyond your years. Honored to have you on the podcast. You story and insights help all of us better love, understand and support others. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Emily's e-mail: emilygroves00@gmail.com

My friend Gabby Rich (Brazil RM, BYU-Idaho graduate, day care teacher, from Anacortes, Washington) joins us to bravely share her story: * Grew up “goody 2 shoes” Mormon * “Shame cannot survive being spoken” * Kissed her last mission companion * Chose not to take the sacrament day of her mission homecoming * Believed she was straight—dated guys * Strong interest in a guy who “would be the answer to all my problems” * Broke off relationship—downward spiral of anxiety * Finally accepted being attracted to girls * Started to come out (some good and some not so good responses) * "Was still valuing others' perceptions of me—versus living authentically" * UVU institute class for queer members—super helpful in her journey * Parents became great allies * Started dating girls—everything clicked * Wants to “find a girl who would share my same desire to maintain a relationship with Heavenly Father and works to becoming more Christlike” * Helpful advice received from others * Hopes for the future Thank you Gabby for your courage to share your story. I learned so much from you. Your brave/honest/vulnerable story will help others believe God loves them and find more hope. You are awesome. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gabrielle.rich.73 Instagram: @richgabrielle

My friend Magnum Davis (High School Senior/Utah County, out to family/friends for over 3 years) joins us to bravely share his story: * Painful Jr. High Experience—always being asked if he was gay * Mom's support during these years * Starting to come out in early High School years—“felt freeing” * Coming out to entire family—“each time I told someone, I grew” * Great family support over the years * Believing can't be gay and Mormon—initially felt like he had to choose one * Dating boys—keeping communication open with parents * Difficult Bishop experiences—but giving grace * Breaking point—“I had to break for God to build me into something better” * Seeing and working through deep rooted shame—helpful therapists * Love conquers everything * Love he feels from his Heavenly Parents and his Savior * “Being gay is a spiritual gift” Thank you Magnum—one of our youngest guests—for being on the podcast to share your story. Respect for your courage to share your story out of a desire to help other feel hope. Your story helps so many. You are a good man with a wonderful future. Links: Instagram: @magnummiles

My friend Soren Neilsen (age 21, Sacramento California RM, from Michigan, University of Utah student) joins us to share his story: * Realizing he was different—not attracted to girls * Working through internalized homophobia and shame * Hurtful things said about gay people while growing up * Coming out to Bishop (good experience) * Gay LDS friend—friend throughout his mission—offered love, acceptance, and support * Decision to serve a mission * Coming out to both mission presidents (generally good) * Coming out to companions and generally the whole mission (generally good) * “God wants me to use my sexuality to help others come unto Christ” (I thought I could add that there is unity in our differences) * Deep testimony of our Heavenly Parents and our Savior—and His atonement (D&C6:36) * Personal revelation * Feeling his best path forward is to marry a man and build a life/family together with Christ as the foundation Thank you Soren for being on the podcast to share your story. You are brave. Thank you for helping so many people come unto Christ during your mission and for the many lives you blessed. Love your testimony/love of Christ and how He wants to help all of us. You are a good man with a wonderful future. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Instagram: @sojonie1 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/soren.nielsen.632826

My friends Kade Smith (age 38, lives in San Diego, married to husband Chris for 9 years) and Terri Smith (LDS married mother of 4 sons) join us to share their story. I've been friends with the Smith family as we lived together in the same Sandy neighborhood from about 1993-1998. Sheila and I love the Smith family. Kade shares: * Coming out at Age 18 * Moving in San Francisco and being groomed into an abuse relationship. Was vulnerable and need validation * Becoming HIV positive—told his Mom * Going “all in” with the gay community—needed belonging * Abuse, drug and alcohol addiction—suicidal, called Mom from his balcony—drive back to Salt Lake City * Long road to sobriety—being “loved back to life” * Role of Heavenly Father and Kade's Savior Jesus Christ to help him * Importance of the Word of Wisdom * Belonging withing the sober community * Helping others. Moving forward Terri shares: * Challenges of parenting an adult child with drug/alcohol challenges * Always loving and believing in Kade * Being there for his drive back to Salt Lake City * Love of Kade's husband Chris—“our family would not be complete without Chris” * “I love you Kade, and am proud of your life” This is a super powerful story of Kade's long journey to be sober and do the hard work necessary to get to this point. It is a story of survival, resilience, hope, turning to God, and courage. It is also a powerful story of a mother's love for her dear son. Doing this podcast together is super powerful—a beautiful family love story. I encourage everyone to listen and share this episode. Thank you Kade and Terri for your courage to share your story. It will help so many!

My friend Laurie Reese (married mother of five, one grandchild, active LDS) joins us to share her story based on a recent talk she gave in her Ward: * Story of her son Landon and her daughter Hallee coming out as gay * Hallee's marriage ended. Mother of one. Now engaged to her girlfriend * Laurie's support for her gay children * Loneliness as some people pull away and don't know what to say * Melissa Inouye's book “Sacred Struggle” and sitting in the back seat on the road to Piha * Teaching of Jesus to love those on the margins “Easier to put others in a group and then label them in a certain way and set them aside and dismiss their pain and needs” * We don't need to use Satan's tactics (take away agency) to accomplish God's plan * Questions I ask myself as I better try to follow Jesus * Landon's difficult seminary experience—how we can do better * Church leader quotes about diversity and doing better * Story of selling a home and heart dropped as a gay couple came to look at the home—and now hoping her gay children will be loved as they move into their own homes This is a super powerful episode with Laurie being honest about the pain and challenges of raising gay children—not because they are gay—but because of the lack of support and understanding for these wonderful children. If you have queer children (or want to be better prepared to raise your future queer kiddos), please listen and share this episode. And if you want better tools to love our queer friends and their families, please listen/share this episode. Thank you Laurie for being on the podcast. I was so moved with your story and spiritual insights. Thanks for all you are doing to build Zion and help everyone feel loved and a sense of belonging. Links: https://www.facebook.com/laurie.v.reese Laurie.v.reese@gmail.com

My friend Candice Bithell (married mother of three, active LDS) joins us to share her story: Candice's backstory Bones (her transgender son) coming out at age 13/14 Parable of the Lost Coin as her spiritual lens Powerful insights into the Lost Coin Parable to support Bones Difficult experiences on Bones journey—anger, self-harm, etc… Love as the foundation of her approach to support Bones “My love is bigger than your gender” Attending Pride Events—including bringing glowsticks—powerful experience of love and acceptance Close and loving family—beautiful family love story This is one of the best podcasts we've done for providing insights (both doctrinally and from a parent's perspective) into loving and supporting a transgender child. If you are looking to better understand and support the transgender people in your life, please listen and share this podcast. Thank you, Candice, for being on the podcast and all you are doing to help us all better love and support the transgender people in our lives. You have a beautiful family. Links: Candice's Wayfare Article: https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/p/glowsticks-and-parables Candice's Substack: https://substack.com/@cbithell

My friend Douglas Williams (President of the Real OCD Club and the Un Alone Club at BYU; dual-major at BYU, RM, MTC Teacher) joins us to share his journey with OCD and scrupulosity: Understanding, managing, and accepting intrusive thoughts—not a sign of worthiness Thoughts don't have anything to do with our character Undiagnosed scrupulosity entering mission field (repeated confessions to Stake President) Difficult start to mission, medication, things got better (still misdiagnosed) Coming home from mission, going off medication, and crashing Finally got a correct diagnosis—path to healing Importance of Exposure and Response Prevention Therapy Ego-syntonic thoughts (line up with values) and ego-dystonic thoughts (don't line up with values)—super powerful distinction Invitation to join the Real OCD Club at BYU (focused on OCD) Invitation to join Un-Alone Club at BYU (focused on solving porn use) If you are working to understand and navigate OCD in yourself or help others, Douglas' podcast will help you. Douglas—who has a gift of great communication—does an excellent job of helping us all better understand OCD/Scrupulosity and how to solve these mental health challenges. Links: Real OCD Club at BYU on Instagram: @readocdblub Un Alone Club at BYU on Instagram: @un.alone.byu

My friend Gracee Purcell (BYU Psychology Grad, President of RaYnbow Collective, Activist, Engaged to be Married) joins us to share her story at BYU: Why she choose BYU Advice for other queer people considering Church-owned schools Roommates (mostly positive) Interactions with BYU administration Interactions with BYU professors Work of “RaYnbow Collective” to support queer BYU students Insights on the concept of “Safe Places” Thank you, Gracee, for being on the podcast and all your bridge building work to make this world a better place. You are doing so much good in our community and have a great life ahead of you. Congrats on your recent engagement. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode. Links: RaYnbow Collective Instagram: @raynbow.collective

** This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988 ** My friend Bruce Butcher (late 50s, married father of three, active LDS) joins us in a powerful episode to share the following: Loving and accepting people in his life who are no longer in the Church “We don't punish a man for his beliefs” Losing his wonderful son Taylor to suicide in June 2024 Taylor's prayer “bless the sick and sad, help us to be the best versions of ourselves” Painful doctrine the Church used to teach about suicide—led to no hope Love of a mother is the most powerful force on earth Love of our Heavenly Mother is the most powerful force in heaven—she isn't going to cut off any of Her children Excluding people is not Christ's doctrine David Archuleta—“I'm still a fan” Being a cafeteria Mormon My apology to my LGBTQ friends I deeply loved listening to and learning from Bruce. If you are looking for more hope in your life, be more like Jesus, and love/accept people walking different roads, please listen to and share Bruce's podcast. Thank you, Bruce, for being on the podcast. You are a good man—helping so many. I'm so sorry your good son Taylor is gone. Love Taylor's heart as reflected in the words of his prayer.

My friend Heather Sorensen (married mother of 4; grandmother of 14, early morning seminary teacher), joins us to share her story of losing her daughter Hannah in a traffic accident at age 15 in 2013. Heather talks about the initial and continued grief of her death and how she is navigating both holding her grief and her testimony of being with Hannah again. Heather talks about a dream she had before Hannah was born and that feeling returning during Hannah's death. She also talks about losing her son Richard at birth. Heather talks about not being active in the Church for twenty years and her journey to return to the church and the importance of creating her identity rooted in Jesus Christ and invites us to do the same. Heather talks about her son Zachary's cancer diagnosis during home MTC, fear she would lose another child, and Zachary's recovery and serving a mission. Heather talks about why she decided to write a book about Hannah—called Dandelion Blessings—which is Hannah's nickname. If you are looking for a genuine/honest story of intense grief—and finding hope/peace to move forward—please listen and share Heather's podcast and book. Thank you, Heather, for your courage and vulnerability to be on the podcast. You are helping so many! Links: Dandelion Blessings (at Amazon): https://a.co/d/0eK9OYGy

My friend Mark White (professor, LMFT, aspiring ally, mid-60s, active LDS) joins us to talk about his new children's book—which is focused on an 8-year-old's decision about being baptized in the context of having two gay dads who attend church with her—and what we can do to be better allies/advocates to queer Latter-day Saints and their families. Mark shares the following: Journey to be an aspiring ally/advocate Clinical experience His publishing company (Firefly Inkworks) and new book, Indigo's Baptism George Gerbner's cultivation theory The power of stories Representation matters To be seen Future books Need for all kinds of queer stories, including narratives for a book on LDS Trans and gender nonconforming persons Mark invites a discussion about how we can be a better ally/advocate (friend, parent, local leader, etc.), including asking our queer friends to let us know what they need and indicate whether we truly are an ally/advocate. The children of queer LDS parents are essentially invisible in LDS culture. Mark hopes Indigo's Baptism is a small step in increasing representation. He desires we use all the resources available to better support our queer friends. And if you are queer or have queer parent(s), Mark prays his work will give you hope as he talks about his love for and support of the queer community. Please contact him if you are interested in publishing a book or are willing to contribute a narrative to the book he and colleagues are working on that focuses on the needs and stories of current or former members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who are trans and gender nonconforming. Thank you, Mark, for being on the podcast. You are making a difference. You give me hope. Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61587754991132 Mark's publishing company: www.fireflyinkworks.com Etsy store where you can buy Indigo's Baptism: https://www.etsy.com/shop/FireflyInkworks?ref=shop-header-name&listing_id=4459276962&from_page=listing Instagram: fireflyinkworks Mark's e-mail: fireflyinkworks@gmail.com Mark's outline: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/awvy653dh8ubvi44uxcyb/LLL.Podcast-Outline.Indigo-s-Baptism.Feb-2026.pdf?rlkey=2b6fn8xxu4e37iiiqvexk6c20&dl=0

My friend Eliza Riggs (age 22, RM/Orem Utah, UVU Student) joins us to share her story including: Great Parents, Queer Friendly Home Came out first to her Heavenly Parents—positive experience Felt lots of pressure to fit in the Church as a Bishop's daughter, wasn't working, difficult chapter Joined girl's high school wrestling team—“saved my life” Youth conference and surprising thought to serve a mission Mom buying her rainbow sheets before coming out to her Being called to Orem, Utah (initial disappointment—but then powerful revelation) Great experience coming out to her Mission President Coming out to her parents—super positive Her queer identity is celebrated in heaven Thank you, Eliza, for your courage to share your story which will help so many. You are awesome. Honored to have you on the podcast. Encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode. Links: Eliza's Instagram: @elizariggs31

I was invited to be on my friend Tate Arnold's show (Over___Soul) to share my story. I've posted that show as Episode 864 on our platform so you could listen here. Thank you, Tate, for letting me be on your show. You are a good man doing great work! Please check out and follow Tate on Instagram @Over___Soul

In one of our most important episodes, David joins us to talk about his new book “Devout—Losing My Faith to Find Myself”. In this episode, David talks about his journey with God to find his path forward as a queer Mormon considering suicide—a path that led David to separate himself from the Church—taking God with him—and live authentically. David gives excellent advice to younger queer people and parents to better support queer kids. I conclude with some of my thoughts on continuing to love and support those that leave our Church (not making them the hero on day for staying in the church and the villain the next day for leaving) and thanking David for his many years of service in the Church and the countless lives he has blessed. Thank you, David, for being on our podcast and your courage to continue to share your story. You are one of my heroes—you continue to help so many find hope in their lives. I encourage everyone to listen/share this episode and consider what we can do to better support our queer friends. Links: David's New Book “Devout”: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FJJGJSB6 David's Book Event in SLC on Feb 24th, 2026: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/david-archuleta-devout-tickets-1981202876135?aff=oddtdtcreator#location David's Facebook: www.facebook.com/davidarchuleta/ David's Instagram @davidarchie David's TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@davidarchie David's Twitter: x.com/DavidArchie David's YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC75d1FNP1qR0lCY1usRKQEw

My friend Tate Arnold (married father of two, active LDS) joins us to share the following: * Difficult chapters including his father-in-law Paul dying by suicide * Needed a different path forward-choosing a "path of transformation" * Positive/life changing experience with psychedelics * Helped him "not pass down trauma to future generations" * Remade his career to be "aligned with eternal soul" * Life work around helping people be aligned with how they are * Love of and support for his transgender sister and the queer community including his former companion Matt Easton * Why he stated "Over____Soul" It is an honor to have Tate (who is a dear family friend and missionary companion to our son Matt in Sydney Australia) on the podcast. He is an "old soul" with incredible insights into how to love and support others. If you are looking to find more peace and hope in your life, please listen to Tate's podcast and connect with his work-work that is so needed in our community. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this podcast. Thank you, Tate, for being on the podcast. You are a good man and give me hope for the future! Links: Tate's Instagram Account: @Over____Soul Tate's YouTube: https://youtube.com/@tateoversoul?si=9qq2CSPf81im35Nc Tate on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3nskaZAhU39wHS7MHCGhM0?si=hXFVo9UbQ4-dLRAaLTMSHw

Club Officers (Douglas Williams, Madi Davis, Bohin Tenney and Brandon Pattillo) from a club at BYU (called The Un-Alone Club) join us to talk about their club's efforts to help themselves and others have better tools and support to solve porn use. In the podcast, each club officer shares their own experience with pornography usage and what has helped them to better understand their porn use and better tools/support for recovery. If you are working to solve porn use in your own life or better tools to help others, please listen to and share this podcast. And if you are a BYU student looking for support, please check out/join their club (see show notes below). Thank you, Doug, Madi, Bohin, and Brandon—you are some of my new heroes. Your courage to share your story and create a safe place for others is making a difference for good in so many lives. Links: Instagram Account: @un.alone.byu E-mail: lovebetter@byu.edu Madi Davis earlier podcast: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-622-madi-davis-byu-student-bravely-shares-her-journey-to-solve-porn-use Madi Davis “Sisters on the Front Lines Podcast”: https://rss.com/podcasts/sistersonthefrontlines/ “7 Tips for Solving Pornography Use Liahona Article”: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use Chapter from Richard Ostler's Book about Solving Porn Use: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nrfb3jzluzrj2sp8ihrfo/Chapter-4-Ending-Pornography-Use.-Listen-Learn-and-Love-Improving-Latter-day-Saint-Culture.pdf?rlkey=dqxcrtvxcmu6u3ppkig3kh82p&dl=0

My friend Rev. Jamie White (Pastor at First Presbyterian Church of Salt Lake City, theological/pastoral education from Vanguard University and Princeton Seminary, married mother of three) joins us to share her story including: Being raped at age 18, becoming pregnant, keeping her child—now her eldest son/recently married Feeling her life was ruined. No hope. Deep anger. Could have killed her abuser Writing letters to her unborn son The support that saved her; parents and faith community, and her mom's tough advice Therapist jolting comment: “This tragedy must become your greatest treasure.” Initial anger at this comment—but became true. Hard work to find peace and forgiveness—loving your enemies. Finding her husband Dave—and building a life together. Creating space in her congregation for diversity rather than uniformity, tough work but worth it Acceptance and love of queer members of her congregation—including the story of a thriving transgender member. If you are looking for hope/healing from difficult experiences (or better tools to help others), please listen and share this episode. Jamie brings a rare combination from her academic background, profession experience, love of Jesus, and her personal story of being a rape survivor to authentically help each of us overcome difficult experiences and find more hope, peace, healing and forgiveness. This is a super powerful podcast. I encourage everyone to listen and share with others. Links: Paster Jamie White Bio: https://www.fpcslc.org/staff Faith Matters/One America Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yLO12ykbCU First Presbyterian Church Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@fpcslc

My friend Dr. Ben Bailey (PhD from BYU in Psychology currently working at UVU as a Mental Health Therapist) joins us to talk about things close to his heart and work as a therapist to bring more hope and understanding, reduce divisiveness, and bring us together as the same human family including: Nonviolent Communication (NVC) as a framework to become a better peacemaker Moving from judgmental thinking into a language of feelings and needs Understanding differences in others by understanding their needs How to talk across difference with people who have different opinions than us about the rights of LGBTQ individuals Distinguishing empathy from agreement (understanding someone does not require endorsing their beliefs) Prioritizing safety before connection A more compassion focused approach to understanding pornography use Normalizing and having a better approach to doubt Thank you, Ben, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you on how to feel better about ourselves and bring us together as the same human family. I also appreciate your work as a therapist and all you are doing to love, help, and give hope to others. Links: NVC Book: https://nonviolentcommunication.com/product/nvc/ Center For Nonviolent Communication: https://www.cnvc.org/ The Return of the Prodigal Son: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/122877/the-return-of-the-prodigal-son-by-henri-jm-nouwen/ My Music Links: https://linktr.ee/benbaileymusic

My friend Dr. Ben Bailey (PhD from BYU in Psychology currently working at UVU as a Mental Health Therapist) joins us to talk about things close to his heart and work as a therapist to bring more hope and understanding, reduce divisiveness, and bring us together as the same human family including: Nonviolent Communication (NVC) as a framework to become a better peacemaker Moving from judgmental thinking into a language of feelings and needs Understanding differences in others by understanding their needs How to talk across difference with people who have different opinions than us about the rights of LGBTQ individuals Distinguishing empathy from agreement (understanding someone does not require endorsing their beliefs) Prioritizing safety before connection A more compassion focused approach to understanding pornography use Normalizing and having a better approach to doubt Thank you, Ben, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you on how to feel better about ourselves and bring us together as the same human family. I also appreciate your work as a therapist and all you are doing to love, help, and give hope to others. Links: NVC Book: https://nonviolentcommunication.com/product/nvc/ Center For Nonviolent Communication: https://www.cnvc.org/ The Return of the Prodigal Son: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/122877/the-return-of-the-prodigal-son-by-henri-jm-nouwen/ My Music Links: https://linktr.ee/benbaileymusic

My friends Rhonda Monson (married mother of three, recently returned senior missionary, LGBTQIA ally, therapist, life coach, and retreat facilitator) and Dakota Moses (gay, age 30, married to his husband Tyree for 8+ years, deeply spiritual) join us to share their story. Dakota starts and shares with us his journey being gay and LDS (and out before the age of 12) to his parents and his local leaders. Dakota talks about how he was not “permitted to be himself, or even be” and painful church experiences along the way. Dakota talks about doing everything he could to serve a mission but how that dream eventually shifted—and the deep spiritual impressions along the way. Rhonda (whose former husband is gay) talks about her love and support of Dakota and how she is both an active Latter-day Saint and loves the LGBTQIA people in her life. She talks about her wonderful son Dakota and his husband Tyree and her love of them, the good men they are, and keeping the family circle together. They talk about a new podcast they have started together called “I'll Walk With You”. Please check out and share their podcast. Thank you, Rhonda and Dakota, for being on the podcast. You two inspire me. Thanks for making this world a better place. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: I'll Walk With You Podcast: https://illwalkwithyou.buzzsprout.com/2572731 Rhonda's Therapy Practice: https://yourjourneyservices.com/

** This podcast talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 ** My friend Gordon Laws joins us to talk about supporting Dave and Kimi Martin when they lost their transgender son Levi to suicide in Dec 2022. Gordon talks about Levi—a bright, capable, curious young man—and the difficult journey he walked having Swyer Syndrome and being transgender. Gordon talks about the valiant efforts of Dave and Kimi to support their son. Gordon talks about the immediate days after Levi died and his role to minister to the Martin family—including writing his obituary and eulogy. Gordon talks about ministering principles to support others in their time of crisis/need—principles that help us all do better. Gordon talks about how the Savior ministers to those on the margins and invites us to better understand, love, and support transgender people. Thank you, Gordon for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode. Levi's Eulogy: https://www.instagram.com/p/CqI2JAKpZWJ/ Sanctuary Documentary: https://sanctuarydoc.com/ Levi's Obituary: https://www.d-mfh.com/obituary/Levi-Martin Episode 631 (David and Kimi Martin): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-631-dave-and-kimi-martin-transgender-son

My friend Stephanie Roach—who is married mother of two special needs children age 24 (daughter) and age 22 (son)—joins us to share how we can better support friends and family members with specific needs. In the episode, Stephanie talks about the following: Historical treatment of individuals with special needs Geraldo Rivera's documentary Improved laws and understanding—often led by special needs folks Utah Parent Center—great resource Insights and examples on how we can do better Suggestions from her daughter I learned so much from Stephanie about how to better support the special needs people in my life—I wish I had listened to this episode decades ago. Stephanie is also the person who suggested the name of our podcast “Listen, Learn and Love” about 8 years ago. I will be forever grateful to Stephanie for her help. Thank you, Stephanie, for coming on the podcast. Your family is awesome. I encourage everyone to listen and share this episode. Links: Utah Parent Center: https://utahparentcenter.org/

My friend Alex Cutini joins us to share his story: Alex Cutini grew up Catholic in Brazil, sensing early on that he was different from the other boys. At 18, his search for meaning led him to join the LDS Church, serve a mission a year later in Porto Alegre, Brazil, and eventually move to the United States to graduate from BYU-Idaho. Beneath the surface, the strain of hiding who he was grew into profound depression and moments of suicidal ideation. Coming out meant stepping away from the church and facing the heartbreak of family members who struggled to accept him. Yet alongside that pain came grace: a deep, enduring love with his husband Matt, now married for ten years, and unexpected, unwavering support from his mission president and the missionary and family who baptized him. As both of their families slowly learned how to love more fully, Alex found his way forward—toward healing, purpose, and ultimately becoming the CEO of Encircle, where his story now helps save lives. Alex then shares the story of Encircle, now serving communities through five locations across Utah. He honors Stephenie Larsen's original vision and courage in founding Encircle, and explains how that vision has grown into a lifeline for queer youth and their families. Encircle provides affirming clinical therapy, currently accepting new clients, alongside a wide range of free programs and services designed to create safety, connection, and hope. Together, these offerings reflect a simple but powerful mission: to ensure no young person or family has to navigate identity, mental health, or belonging alone. This is one of the most powerful podcasts we've ever done. Alex's coming-out story is profoundly moving as he shares his journey from shame to self-love and acceptance—traveling from darkness, depression, and little hope to light, happiness, and a deeper capacity to help others. I wish everyone—straight or queer—could hear his story. The principles and insights he shares have the power to help us all. Thank you, Alex, for being on the podcast and for your extraordinary work at Encircle. You are making a tremendous difference for good in our community, and you are one of my heroes. And to everyone involved with Encircle—thank you. I am deeply supportive of your lifesaving work. Links: Alex's Instagram: @alexcutini Alex's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexcutini/ Encircle's Instagram: @encircletogether Encircle: https://encircletogether.org/

My friend Amy Watkins Jensen (teacher, writer, active LDS, founder of “Women on the Stand”) join us to share her story including: Growing up Mormon in Chicago Mission to Argentina—first awareness of gendered imbalance Brother coming out as gay Carol Lynn Pearson's living room Y/W LGBTQ service project Backstory starting “Women on the Stand” Area Presidency ending practice, heartache, letter writing President Oak's recent invitation on the need to do better Best practices Any shares powerful and important principles behind the movement (which isn't asking for doctrinal changes) including: Aligning of practices with our doctrine (which is divine equality) Respectfully relentless If you are looking to better support Latter-day Saint women, please listen to this podcast and connect with Amy's work. As Amy teaches “It will help us come closer to the divine equality that is our doctrine—and part of our beautiful theology—allowing us to thrive”. Thank you, Amy, for your great work. You are making a difference. I learned so much from you—you give me hope! Links: Best practices link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Xuxe0qF_naSVfF3FifQzvv9AAQeHdzD5LU-AaZ_mlws/edit?usp=drivesdk Hope for Future practices link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19RuApg_1a-GGZYERHhvVRjI23IKPI3ooAdjUHE-gZAs/edit?usp=sharing Instagram account: @womenonthestand Substack: https://womenonthestand.substack.com/

*Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leave** My friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) join us to discuss: * Understanding/supporting your spouse that left the church * Understanding/supporting your spouse that stays in the church * What helps couple stay strong * Shares values over shared beliefs * The Gottman Method * A,C,T,S Andy's work is more than theoretical—as he talks “in-real-life” about how this works in their marriage with examples of how he supports his wife and three daughters in their church attendance (including giving a talk at a daughter's baptism) and the peace he has found with people he loves holding different beliefs. Andy mentions the work of Allan and Kattie Mount and their podcast “Marriage on a Tightrope”. Thank you, Andy, for bringing your clinical expertise and own personal journey to help those in a mixed-faith marriage. I learned so much from you and appreciate your voice and healing work in our community. You are a good man—glad to have you on the podcast! Links: Psychology today: www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/andy-newman-gilbert-az/974441 IG: www.instagram.com/andynewmanlpc/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction_therapy Twitter: @andynewmanlpc Epsiode One: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-846-andy-newman-episode-one/id1347971725?i=1000734877746

My friend Rebecca Mullen (lives in Colorado, master certified life coach) joins us to talk about her work of healing including: Becoming an LGBTQ ally in her younger years Removing shame and providing healing Helping everyone to be their authentic selves Loving people that Churches don't always love/accept Principles for managing marriage conflict Importance and application of love If you are looking for insights/perspectives to heal and bring people closer together, Rebecca's work will help you. Thank you, my friend Rebecca, for being on the podcast—your great heart—and all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family. Links: Rebecca's web site (you can find her contact info, life coach work, podcast and book here): https://RebeccaMullenCoaching.com/ Outdoor Therapist episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/dk/podcast/episode-736-zak-hazlett-the-outdoor-therapist/id1347971725?i=1000645256176

My friend Katie Searle (certified mediator, philanthropic consultant, grant writer, and mother) joins us to share her story, including: * Being raised in two homes after parents divorced (mother and her wife; father and his wife) * Going to BYU-Hawaii, part of Dr Chad Ford's Peacebuilding Program and working at the McKay Center for Intercultural Understanding, temple marriage * Co-founding Kinfolk Magazine, adapting to the pace of a fast growing start-up Leaving the Church (LGBTQIA+ issues/feeling uneasy with messages that harmed people she loves, valuing authenticity over obedience, developing own moral compass) * Moving to Copenhagen and heartbreaking loss of a baby son Leo, at 5 months pregnant; the isolation of grieving abroad without community * Becoming pregnant again, husband coming out as gay, marriage ending Moving back to Oregon, managing heartbreak, daughter born, support from mother and her wife * Falling in love with Joe, his death on the day he was to move in, profound grief Opening heart to a new love with Matt and their committed partnership, shared life, and blended family Katie writes about grief with these powerful words: “I never sought to be an expert in grief and loss, but that is where my life journey has taken me. In navigating two separate households as a child, a transition of faith, the losses of a child, a marriage, a career, and the sudden death of my ‘chapter two'—my soul love—I've become well-acquainted with the darkness of deep loss, grief, and the grit of burning resilience. I care deeply about equipping others with the ability to adapt to life's unavoidable conflicts, trauma, tragedies and stressors. Learning to live with adversity and grief in a culture that is pain-adverse can feel impossible and incredibly lonely, but there are ways to move forward (rather than moving on), rebuild and reclaim joy. I know this, because I've lived it time and time again—and so can you.” Katie is also the Assistant Director of the Waymakers initiative (with Chad Ford & Patrick Mason), and planner of their conflict resolution workshop series, REPAIR. Dr. Chad Ford writes about Katie's roll in their recent workshop to "Maintaining Love during Faith Transitions" with these words: “Katie came up next. She spoke about her own faith transition in the most vulnerable way possible. She reminded us of both the fragility of change and the bravery it takes to find truth and belonging, especially when that means making choices that ask ourselves and others to leave behind old versions of ourselves. There were tears flowing as Katie, in her own graceful way, reminded us what it means to be human.” Thank you, Katie, for your courage to share your story—which helps all of us better understand grief and more tools to help others walking this road. Thank you for your bridge building work in our community. Thanks for all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family. Links: Waymakers' next REPAIR event: Interfaith REPAIR: A multi-faith workshop on healing divides and building communities of peace, March 6th, 2026, Salt Lake City (Tickets on sale early 2026) Waymakers: https://www.waymakers.us Support Waymakers: https://donorbox.org/waymakersproject Katie Searle's website & contact info: https://katiesearle.com/ Chad Ford's Earlier Episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-847-dr-chad-ford-new-book-seventy-times-seven/id1347971725?i=1000735977230

My friend Isaac Durfey (who was on episode 833) joins us to update listeners on his journey including: * Parent leaving on a mission * What happened to help him stopping “hating himself for being gay” * Importance of new beginnings * Friends like Jake and Joe Sharp (who were on episode 811) * Feeling about the Family Proclamation * Hope for the future * Love of the LDS Church and the support/love he receives Thank you, my friend Isaac, for being on the podcast—you are a good man. Links: Episode 833: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/episode-833-isaac-durfey-black-gay-latter-day-saint/id1347971725?i=1000710494050 Episode 811: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/episode-811-jake-and-joe-sharp-lost-brother-sam-to/id1347971725?i=1000691741343

My friend Russ Hinckely (mid 60s, married father of three, lives in Arizona, career in business) joins us to talk about his new book “Beyond Belief”. Russ's book focuses “not just what we hold in our minds and hearts, but what we DO and how we actually LIVE the teachings of Christ (from Ashlie Carnecelli)—and “how one can truly follow Jesus in walking the path rather than just believing in it (from Jeff Anderson).” “Beyond Belief” is a pragmatic look at what Jesus taught and the behaviors He modeled. While creeds highlight foundational elements of our beliefs, they are only the starting point to living His teachings. One Amazon reviewer writes “ Russ Hinckley's "Beyond Belief" where we are reminded to get back to the basics of what Jesus was all about.” If you are looking for a book to put into action Jesus's teachings to bless/help/heal others (and ourselves), please listen to this podcast and read/share Russ's powerful book. Thank you, Russ, for helping us move “beyond belief” to make the teachings of Jesus's actionable to bless others. Links: Russ's book at Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/B0CRPTF1B8 Russ's e-mail: russ.hinckley@gmail.com

My friend Dr. Chad Ford (Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Utah State University, prior director of McKay Center at BYU-Hawaii, expert of conflict resolution, PhD Georgetown University, joins us to talk about his new book published by Deseret Book “Seventy Times Seven: Jesus's Path to Conflict Transformation”. Amazon reviews mention “one of the best they've read about Jesus, how it inspires readers to embrace compassion, encourages reflection and discussion, and practical application”. Chad talks about the “Gospel of Reconciliation” using the teachings and example of Jesus to apply to our lives. In the podcast he talks about principals to reduce tension and increase understand between current Latter-day Saints and former Latter-day Saints—and also to manage political tension within our congregations. Chad also talks about REPAIR (inaugural event in October 2025) bringing together world-class peacemakers to help attendees have better skills to navigate conflict. If you are looking to be a more effective peacemaker and disciple of Christ, I encourage you to listen to this episode, read Chad's book, and share his work with others. Chad brings his academic training, decades of experience, and insights into Jesus's teachings to help us all better navigate conflict. I learned so much listening to Chad—and am deeply inspired. Thank you, Chad, for your much needed work in our community. Links: Chad's weekly newsletter: chadford.substack.com Chad's new book Seventy Times Seven: amzn.to/439uaY9 Chad's book on conflict Dangerous Love: amzn.to/4oLGFkQ More information on Repair: waymakers.substack.com

*Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leave** My friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) joins for a series of episodes. In this episode, Andy talks about “the shame train” during his youth including: Porn, substance use, and working with his church leaders Shame around the “addiction label”, restrictions (temple trips), and falsely seeing himself as a “terrible addict” How porn/substance use was more about self-medicating from the shame and trauma than a desire to displease God How his worth become dependent on church leaders All the people who helped him along the way Andy then talks about his road to be an LGBTQ ally: Started in high school in Iowa with proximity to queer people Felt he had to choose the Church over queer people Powerful post-mission experience giving a blessing to a queer student at BYU-I Fully taking on the ally role following the pulse nightclub shooting Staying in the church as an ally What led him to eventually leave the Church Andy also talks about why he isn't trying to get other people to leave the Church—but trying to build bridges of understanding. In the next episode, will talk about his mixed-faith marriage (Andy's wife is active LDS) and how they have a beautiful/supportive marriage—including Andy attending church. Thank you, my friend Andy, for being on the podcast and your great heart and clinical skills to help heal others and bring us together as the same human family. You are a good man and friend. Links: Psychology today: www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/andy-newman-gilbert-az/974441 IG: www.instagram.com/andynewmanlpc/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction_therapy

My friend Suzie Greco—a survivor of child sex abuse and domestic abuse, a Latter-day Saint, a Harvard Divinity School graduate (Master's in Theology), a doctrinal candidate, and an advocate in numerous organizations working to end abuse—joins us to share her powerful story and discuss her new book, The Stone Sphere. In this must-listen-to podcast, Suzie shares: The meaning behind the title and image on the front cover of the book. Untrained Ministry and Institutional Harm, including both positive and negative experiences with her Stake President, David F. Hollard—who gave Suzie permission to include his name and their experiences in the book. A Transformative Theology of Forgiveness—a much healthier framework for healing. Pathways to Healing, Redemption, and Spiritual Transcendence, the golden thread of the book. It's hard to overstate the power and importance of this conversation. Suzie is doing breakthrough, trailblazing work. I learned so much and was deeply moved. If you are a survivor of abuse—sexual, domestic, clergy, or otherwise—please listen. This episode will help you. (You are also welcome to reach out to Suzie directly; her email is in the show notes.) And if you are a local church leader, friend, family member, or really anyone else, please listen and share this podcast and Suzie's book. It will provide you with better tools to help and support others. I truly wish I had heard this podcast and read Suzie's book before my own church assignments—I would have been so much better equipped to help provide healing. Thank you, Suzie, for writing this book and for your vulnerability on the podcast. Your insights, courage, and work are helping so many. You are one of my new heroes. Links: Suzie's Website: https://www.thestonesphere.com/ Suzie's Email: S.E.Greco@sms.ed.ac.uk Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FD9FT8B1 Suzie's Facebook :https://www.facebook.com/suzgrec2 Dialogue Journal Article, "Confronting Men's Violence Against Women & Girls in the LDS Church": https://www.dialoguejournal.com/articles/confronting-mens-violence-against-women-and-girls-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/

My friend Autumn McAlpin (co-director and mother of two queer sons) and Vienna Boyes (co-director, mid 20s, queer) join us to share their stories and also their new feature length documentary called “Sanctuary”. Sanctuary—a must see—is a powerful documentary telling stories at the intersection of being a Latter-day Saint (and other Christian faiths) and being LGBTQ. I watched Sanctuary and was deeply moved hearing powerful stories/projects/efforts of queer people, parents, allies, and local church leaders. I learned so much and was deeply moved. I encourage everyone to watch Sanctuary (see show notes) and share with others. The film will be going on a screening tour in early 2026 before being released on streamers -- please follow the film's website and Instagram for screening announcements. Thank you, Autumn, and Vienna—and everyone involved with the documentary. You are making a huge difference in our community! Links (feel free to add more links such as social media if you want to) Sanctuary Web Site: https://sanctuarydoc.com/ Sanctuary Instagram: @sanctuarydocfilm Vienna's Instagram: @indigothestudio Autumn's Instagram: @autumnmcalpin Spencer's Song: https://open.spotify.com/track/2qKXdi4mxZ0rXGoxJ6jlCF

My friend Bryson Lind (active gay Latter-day Saint, mid 30's) joins us to discuss his new therapy practice in Utah (Aletheia Counseling) and important topics he helps clients (LGBTQ and straight) solve including: Overcoming unwanted behaviors Reconstructing a relationship with the Divine Honoring everyone's path Trusting our Light of Christ/Inner Compass Navigating relationships with parents and leaders Developing self-confidence and patience If you are looking for a therapist (or insights from a therapist to help you—or to be a better ally for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints), this is a must listen podcast. Bryson's brings his lived experience, clinical training, and 5 years of clinical practice together to offer powerful solutions and principles. I was so moved listening to Bryson and so grateful to have him back on the podcast. Thank you, Bryson. You are a good man doing great work in our community. Links: Bryson's e-mail: bryson@aletheiacounselingtherapy.com Bryson's Work Phone: 385-442-9721 Bryson's earlier podcast: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-588-bryson-lind-rm-byu-grad-gay-clinical-mental-health-counselor Bryson's Psychology Today profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/bryson-garrett-lind-provo-ut/1090307

My friend Rob Metalf (married father of two, age 33) joins us to share his journey with his mental health (OCD/anxiety) and his physical health (Ankylosing spondylitis—or AS). Rob (guitar player and songwriter) has formed a band (TOWN!) and is releasing an album (The Road Trip) that captures many of his life experiences. The first song (Forever—see show notes) is a song about his anxiety. In the podcast, Rob talks about other songs that on the album talking about important and sensitive subjects (suicide, relationship with the Church, Alzheimer's). In the podcast, Rob shares his journey with AS (undiagnosed for a long time) and how it took him from an avid outdoorsman to—on his worse days—bedridden. Rob talks about his journey to find a diagnosis and the right medication to get him in a better spot—and all the people that helped him along the way. Rob is honest about feeling angry/abandon by God and how we can better support people with long-term health challenges. Rob is one of my heroes. He is a survivor and now using his gifts to help others through sharing his story and his music. I encourage you to listen to and share this podcast and his music. Thank you, Rob, for being on the podcast. You are a good man. Links: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/5B6F6RaBY79SLmTIZvOzLs?si=495f1a71eacd480e&nd=1&dlsi=cc0b82d21bb24d6e Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/forever/1826704391?i=1826704454 Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/abandcalledtown/

Talk given in our YSA Ward on the character of our Heavenly Parents and Jesus—and how that brings us peace, healing, and hope. Focused on seven concepts: 1) Our Heavenly Parents love all Their children 2) We have to believe/know we are acceptable to God. That we are created as intended. That no one is a mistake 3) Zion isn't sameness 4) Jesus loves to forgive 5) Whole and complete now 6) Don't feel you are behind 7) Throw out the dating checklist Links: Seven Tips for Overcoming Porn Use: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use How the Savior's Healing Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

My friends Aaron and Julie Bujnowski (married parents of two; living North of Dallas, Texas, active Latter-day Saints) join us to talk about their new book “Navigating to Jesus: A Journey of Faith.” In this important 10-chapter book, Aaron and Julie share many of their own difficult/wounding experiences (both in and out of the Church), and their path forward to healing and staying in the Church is Jesus. Thank you, Aaron and Julie, for opening up your hearts in writing this needed book and being on the podcast. I am grateful for your courage to talk about some of your difficult life experiences, and “navigating to Jesus” is the answer. I encourage everyone to check out your book! Links: Amazon: https://a.co/d/cUw0Y09 Cedar Fort: https://www.cedarfort.com/products/navigating-to-jesus-a-journey-of-faith?sca_ref=2861413.ytmX5gv94t Instagram: @navigatingtojesus Earlier episode on Listen, Learn, and Love (episode 647): soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-647-aaron-and-julie-bujnowski-new-book-discovering-your-temple-insights

My friend Jessica Frew (life coach, former husband is gay and still “part of the family”, married mother of three) joins us to share her story of her husband coming out as gay and that marriage ending—and still staying close as they co-parent their daughter. Jessica also talks about her important new book called “Shove Your Shoulds” which focuses on healthier boundaries, improved self-image, and deeper acceptance of ourselves and others. Jessica writes the book from her own experiences and from her work as a life coach. I am grateful for Jessica's voice on acceptance and understanding in our community—and encourage everyone to check out her new book (currently in presale—release date of Sept 12, 2025). Thank you, Jessica, for being on the podcast. You are awesome. Links: Book website: https://shoveyourshoulds.com/ Jessica on Instagram: @heyjessicafrew Jessica's podcast (Husband In Law): podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/husband-in-law/id1464470280 Jessica's earlier episode on Listen, Learn, and Love (episode 217): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-217-jessica-and-matt-frew-active-lds-and-steve-stoddard-jessicas-gay-former-husband

*** This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988 *** My friend Alex Hayes (from Utah County, Age 18, planning to serve a mission) bravely joins us to share his story which includes: * Turning to porn at age 13 use as a coping mechanism * Don't label porn as an addiction * Sexual orientation/feelings (gay or straight) are not from Satan * Importance of being a safe place when people are vulnerable * How shame and lack of self-love contributed to worse coping mechanisms resulting in being raped * PTSD of that whole experience (psych ward, etc) * How Emily Belle Freeman “Introduced this new Savior” * Alex's powerful testimony of Heavenly Father and Jesus—and their role in our lives * How the “Miracle of the Gospel is Hope” * Buring desire to help others know Jesus and His Gospel of love and hope. Alex is one of the bravest that has ever been on our podcast because of his courage to be vulnerable and honest. Alex—because of his experiences—knows Jesus and His ability to heal and give hope. If you are looking for hope that Jesus can bring in your lives (or help others find hope), please listen and share this episode. Alex is one of my new heroes. Our church and world are a better place with Alex Hays in it. Thank you, Alex, for your courage to be on the podcast. You are a good man with a gift to help others. Links: Instagram: @alexhayes205

My friend Darren Parry (Shoshone Leader, Adjust Professor at Utah State and University of Utah, Author) joins us to talk about his new book called “Tending the Sacred: How Indigenous Wisdom will Save the World” which talks about values from the lens of our Indigenous friends to help understand and solve today's problems. Darren talks about his own history (including his ancestors) using real life examples on how “Indigenous Wisdom” helps see and solve problems bringing us together as the same human family. I am deeply moved by Darren's insights/soft heart and work to build bridges. I'm honored to have served as Darren's companion during our missions in England 45 years ago as I had the chance to see Darren's love for the people of England (and love for me—his new junior companion). I encourage everyone to reach Darren's book—for timeless values to help bring us together. Thank you to our friends at BCC Press for publishing Darren's book. Thank you, Darren, for being on the podcast and your needed work in our world! Links: Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1961471248 Darren's FB: https://www.facebook.com/darren.parry.7

My friends McArthur Krishna and Anne Pimentel (authors, BYU grads, advocates for those on the margins) join us to talk about their important new book (at Deseret Book and Amazon) called “Changemakers: Women Who Bolding Built Zion” The podcast/book covers important topics: How revelation is “scattered” How women led changing the Church Institution with Primary and Relief Society How most of the change we can impact is in our local area around culture Anne's racial awakening—and her desire to help people of other races feel belonging The “Back Yard Principle” Supporting those who leave the church Why McArthur and Anne (knowing all the complicated issues) stay in the Church Why McArthur hopes the Church her daughters are raised in is different than the Church she was raised in—and how we should embrace change Importance of personal authority If you are looking to improve church culture to better create Zion so more feel welcome, I encourage you to read/share this book. It has real-life stories and perspectives/principles to help each of us. I wish I had read a book like this a long time ago. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast, read the book—and share with others. Thank you, McArthur and Anne, for your needed work in our community. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1560855185 Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/product/6085124.html McArthur IG: @mcarthurkrishna_creates McArthur FB: www.facebook.com/mcarthur.mcarthurfreeranger Heavenly Mother Matters IG: @heavenlymothermatters Anne IG: @the.vision.beautiful James Jones Online Course: btbacademy.thinkific.com/courses/lds-anti-racism-101-abandoning-attitudes-and-actions-of-prejudice Chapter on How We Should Treat People Who Leave the Church: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zkupzyte3lqqtxla6q9y1/Chapter-4-How-Should-We-Treat-Those-Who-Leave-the-Church.pdf?rlkey=w00hdkyywo5m9dyg1uwscqbxm&dl=0

My friends Shirley Washenko (sexual abuse survivor/advocate) and Sage Williams (MSc, RN, long-time advocate) joins us to talk about their new, groundbreaking and needed book (published by Deseret Book) called “Healing after Sexual Abuse, A Latter-day Saint Perspective”. The book has these powerful chapters: Establishing Identity Uncovering Wounds Embracing Agency Differentiating Healing Journeys Responding to Anger with Integrity The Core: Connection It Takes “an Angel” to Speak the Truth Grief: Linking, Past Present, and Future Forgiveness in a New Light The Healing Journey This is one of the finest podcasts we've done on healing after sexual abuse. Shirley and Sage (from their respective experiences) bring new, impactful, and practical insights to help heal from sexual abuse. The book will help sexual abuse survivors and also the rest of us as we learn better tools to help them. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast, read the book—and share with others. Thank you, Shirley and Sage, for your life-saving work to bring hope and healing. You are two of my heroes. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Web Site: www.healingaftersexualabuse.com/ Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/product/P6078641.html Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1639934219

My friends Ashli Carnicelli, Trina Caudle, and McArthur Krishna join us to talk about their new book “Mother in Heaven: A Gospel Topics Essay Study Guide.” The book is exactly what the title says: a study guide for the Church's Gospel Topics essay on Heavenly Mother. The book authors talk about the spiritual benefits in our lives of learning about the doctrine of Heavenly Mother and why She matters. This book is aligned with official Church statements and teachings about the doctrine of Heavenly Mother. The authors hope that it helps people seeking our Mother in Heaven to spiritually connect with Her so She is real, intentional, and active in our lives and in Church conversations. Thank you, Ashli, Trina and McArthur, for your needed work. I was deeply moved by your insights and good hearts. I encourage everyone to read this book. Links: Mother in Heaven Study Guide: www.amazon.com/dp/1734228725 Cherish 1: The Joy of Our Mother in Heaven: www.amazon.com/dp/1948218879 Cherish 2: The Love of Our Mother in Heaven: www.amazon.com/dp/1734228733 A Girl's Guide to Heavenly Mother: www.deseretbook.com/product/5258047.html A Boy's Guide to Heavenly Mother: www.deseretbook.com/product/5258052.html Combined IG account: @heavenlymothermatters Personal IG accounts: @ashlicarnicelli @libraryhouseediting @mcarthurkrishna_creates