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Today I'm delighted to welcome back Kerrie Searle, an animal communicator based in Australia. Kerrie previously joined me for an inspiring introduction to Animal communication in Ep 11. Animal communication might be dismissed as a bit woo woo, but we invite you to open your mind to what the possibility of communication is when it isn't constrained by words. We are born into an energetic world that we are intrinsically connected to, but through our education system we are taught to only value verbal communication & slowly we disconnect from the rich web of life & ourselves. This conversation invites you to return to the innate wisdom the world holds, to reconnect to other living beings in the world around us, to the land, to the ancestors & most importantly to all the parts of ourselves. Disconnection & separation from ourselves & the natural world was key to establishing a society that is able to exploit & abuse both nature & other humans. Our hope is that this conversation stirs in you a remembering of the exciting potential that exists when you consider that communication with the greater world is possible, it changes the way you see the world & your place in it, through this shift the potential of a new paradigm is born. This is more than communicating with animals, this is about listening to the knowing that is stirring in all of us & stepping into our true role in healing & caring for a reconnected world.Learn more about Kerrie:After experiencing enormous trauma throughout my life, both personally & professionally (having been a police detective for 17 years), I was mentally, physically & emotionally broken when I retired from the police force. Heavily medicated & in & out of hospital for years, my life was on a constant downward spiral. I realised the medical model I was using wasn't helping me to get better & it was at this point that I chose a more holistic approach to my healing journey & also discovered the extraordinary healing power of flower essences.As I journeyed from a place of deep suppression to reconnecting with the disconnected parts of myself, I also reconnected with my ability to communicate with animals (& other beings/energies) at a very deep level.I now make my own flower essences from the indigenous plants/trees where I live & I use different combinations of flower essences to make a number of blends that I use to heal & support my journey through life. These blends are also used for my animal & human clients.I bring my life experiences & learnings to my consults & workshops & now assist other humans to reconnect to the disconnected parts of themselves so that they too can communicate with their animals more deeply. I receive feelings, words, pictures, smells & tastes from animals which allow me to communicate at a very deep level & become a voice for the animals, conveying what they need heard to their humans.Website: www.animal-communicator.com.auFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/talkstoanimalsSupport the showThank you for being part of this journey with me, please Subscribe so you don't miss our future episodes, leave a review & share with friends to help these messages ripple out across the world. More information about the Podcast & our host Fiona MacKay: Fiona Mackay Photography WebsiteConnect with us & join the conversation on social media:Instagram @FionaMacKayPhotographyFacebook @FionaMacKayPhotographyTwitter @FiMacKay

This blue cannibalistic, vampiric boogey-woman roams the countryside preying upon young children in Leicestershire.  MUSIC COURTESY OF:

Send us a textBryan and Mary Searle were just a young couple when they were invited to their first Farm Bureau meeting. Little did they know that they would stay for over 40 years. In this podcast, Bryan Searle, who has served as president of the Idaho Farm Bureau for the past 10 years, takes us down memory lane by telling us six stories. He talks about the early years of being on the board, technological changes, pivotal decisions, and his feelings for those who changed his life.

Synopsis: How do you build a biotech company that disrupts drug discovery and delivers real impact? In this episode of Biotech 2050, host Rahul Chaturvedi speaks with Raj Devraj, President & CEO of Rectify Pharmaceuticals and Venture Partner at Atlas Venture. Raj shares his journey from big pharma to biotech entrepreneurship, the science behind Rectify's groundbreaking approach to drugging membrane proteins, and how his team is tackling rare hepatobiliary diseases with small-molecule therapies. He also dives deep into biotech innovation, smart capital strategy, M&A trends, and the power of hiring the right talent. Whether you're a biotech founder, investor, or science enthusiast, this episode is packed with insights on building, funding, and scaling a biotech startup in today's competitive landscape. Biography: Rajesh (Raj) Devraj, Ph.D., is President and Chief Executive Officer of Rectify Pharma and a Venture Partner at Atlas Venture. Throughout his career, he has been focused on creating and building groundbreaking biotech companies. Prior to Rectify, Raj co-founded Disarm Therapeutics with Atlas and served as its Chief Scientific Officer prior to its acquisition. Before Disarm, he served as Chief Scientific Officer of Atlas-founded Padlock Therapeutics. Prior to his tenure at Atlas, Raj served in senior executive roles at Euclises & Deciphera Pharmaceuticals and at Jubilant Life Sciences. In addition, Raj spent 14 years in positions of increasing responsibility with Pfizer Global R&D and the legacy Pharmacia and Searle companies. Raj also serves on the boards of directors for several biotech companies. Over a 25-year career in large pharma and biotech, Raj has led discovery, early clinical development, and strategic planning teams that have advanced multiple candidates into clinical trials for refractory cancers, autoimmune diseases, IPF, diabetic nephropathy, COPD, and pain. Raj received his B.S. in Pharmacy from the University of Mumbai, and Ph.D. in Medicinal Chemistry from Duquesne University.

After enjoying her new book Open Socrates so much (and having written about her previous book Aspiration in Second Act), I was delighted to talk to Agnes Callard, not least because, as she discusses in Open Socrates, she is a big Tolstoy admirer. We talked about Master and Man, one of my favourite Tolstoy stories, but also about the value of reading fiction, the relationship between fiction and a thought experiment, and other topics of related interest. George Eliot makes an appearance too. In the discussion about the use of fiction in philosophy classes, I was slightly shocked to hear about how much (or how little) reading her undergraduates are prepared to do, but I was interested that they love Pessoa. Agnes has previously written that the purpose of art is to show us evil. Here is Agnes on Twitter. Transcript below, may contain errors!I found this especially interesting.Exactly, and I mean, 10 seconds, that's a wild exaggeration. So do you know what the actual number is? No. On average. Okay, the average amount of time that you're allowed to wait before responding to something I say is two tenths of a second, which, it's crazy, isn't it? Which, that amount of time is not enough time for, that is a one second pause is an awkward pause, okay? So two tenths of a second is not long enough time for the signal that comes at the end of my talking, so the last sound I make, let's say, to reach your ears and then get into your brain and be processed, and then you figure out what you want to say. It's not enough time, which means you're making a prediction. That's what you're doing when I'm talking. You're making a prediction about when I'm going to stop talking, and you're so good at it that you're on almost every time. You're a little worse over Zoom. Zoom screws us up a little bit, right? But this is like what our brains are built to do. This is what we're super good at, is kind of like interacting, and I think it's really important that it be a genuine interaction. That's what I'm coming to see, is that we learn best from each other when we can interact, and it's not obvious that there are those same interaction possibilities by way of text at the moment, right? I'm not saying there couldn't be, but at the moment, we rely on the fact that we have all these channels open to us. Interestingly, it's the lag time on the phone, like if we were talking just by phone, is about the same. So we're so good at this, we don't need the visual information. That's why I said phone is also face-to-face. I think phone's okay, even though a lot of our informational stream is being cut. We're on target in terms of the quick responses, and there's some way in which what happens in that circumstance is we become a unit. We become a unit of thinking together, and if we're texting each other and each of us gets to ponder our response and all that, it becomes dissociated.Transcript (AI generated)Henry: Today, I am talking to Agnes Callard, professor of philosophy at the University of Chicago, author of Aspiration, and now most recently, Open Socrates. But to begin with, we are going to talk about Tolstoy. Hello, Agnes: .Agnes: Hello.Henry: Shall we talk about Master of Man first?Agnes: Yeah, absolutely.Henry: So this is one of Tolstoy's late stories. I think it's from 1895. So he's quite old. He's working on What is Art? He's in what some people think is his crazy period. And I thought it would be interesting to talk about because you write a lot in Open Socrates about Tolstoy's midlife crisis, for want of a better word. Yeah. So what did you think?Agnes: So I think it's sort of a novel, a story about almost like a kind of fantasy of how a midlife crisis could go if it all went perfectly. Namely, there's this guy, Brekhunov, is that his name? And he is, you know, a landowner and he's well off and aristocratic. And he is selfish and only cares about his money. And the story is just, he takes this, you know, servant of his out to, he wants to go buy a forest and he wants to get there first before anyone else. And so he insists on going into this blizzard and he gets these opportunities to opt out of this plan. And he keeps turning them down. And eventually, you know, they end up kind of in the middle of the blizzard. And at kind of the last moment, when his servant is about to freeze to death, he throws himself on top of the servant and sacrifices himself for the servant. And the reason why it seems like a fantasy is it's like, it's like a guy whose life has a lacuna in it where, you know, where meaning is supposed to be. And he starts to get an inkling of the sort of terror of that as they're spending more and more time in the storm. And his initial response is like to try to basically abandon the servant and go out and continue to get to this forest. But eventually he like, it's like he achieves, he achieves the conquest of meaning through this heroic act of self-sacrifice that is itself kind of like an epiphany, like a fully fulfilling epiphany. He's like in tears and he's happy. He dies happy in this act of self-sacrifice. And the fantasy part of it is like, none of it ever has to get examined too carefully. It doesn't like, his thought doesn't need to be subjected to philosophical scrutiny because it's just this, this one momentary glorious kind of profusion of love. And then it all ends.Henry: So the difficult question is answered the moment it is asked. Exactly, exactly, right?Agnes: It's sort of, it's, I see it as like a counterpart to the death of Ivan Ilyich.Henry: Tell me, tell me more.Agnes: Well, in the death of Ivan Ilyich, the questions surface for even, you know, when death shows up for him. And he suddenly starts to realize, wait a minute, I've lived my whole life basically in the way that Brekhunov did. Basically in the way that Brekhunov does as, you know, pursuing money, trying to be a socially successful person. What was the point of all that? And he finds himself unable to answer it. And he finds himself, it's the exact opposite. He becomes very alienated from his wife and his daughter, I think.Henry: Yeah.Agnes: And the absence of an answer manifests as this absence of connection to anyone, except an old manservant who like lifts up his legs and that's the one relief that he gets. And, you know, it's mostly in the gesture of like someone who will sacrifice themselves for another. Right, that's once again where sort of meaning will show up for a Tolstoy, if it ever will show up in a kind of direct and unashamed way.Henry: Right, the exercise of human compassion is like a running theme for him. Like if you can get to that, things are going great. Otherwise you've really screwed up.Agnes: Yeah, that's like Tolstoy's deus ex machina is the sudden act of compassion.Henry: Right, right. But you think this is unphilosophical?Agnes: I think it's got its toe in philosophical waters and sort of not much more than that. And it's in a way that makes it quite philosophical in the sense that there's a kind of awareness of like a deep puzzle that is kind of like at the heart of existence. Like there's a sensitivity to that in Tolstoy that's part of what makes him a great writer. But there's not much faith in the prospect of sort of working that through rationally. It's mostly something we just got a gesture at.Henry: But he does think the question can be answered. Like this is what he shares with you, right? He does think that when you're confronted with the question, he's like, it's okay. There is an answer and it is a true answer. We don't just have to make some, he's like, I've had the truth for you.Agnes: Yes, I think that that's right. But I think that like the true answer that he comes to is it's compassion and it's sort of religiously flavored compassion, right? I mean, that it's important. It's not just. Yeah, it's a very Christian conclusion. Right, but the part that's important there in a way, even if it's not being Christian, but that it's being religious in the sense of, yes, this is the answer. But if you ask for too much explanation as to what the answer is, it's not going to be the right answer. But if you ask for too much explanation as to why it's the answer, you're going the wrong way. That is, it's gotta, part of the way in which it's the answer is by faith.Henry: Or revelation.Agnes: Or, right, faith, exactly. But like, but it's not your task to search and use your rational faculties to find the answer.Henry: I wonder though, because one of the things Tolstoy is doing is he's putting us in the position of the searcher. So I read this, I'm trying to go through like all of Tolstoy at the moment, which is obviously not, it's not currently happening, but I'm doing a lot of it. And I think basically everything in Tolstoy is the quest for death, right? Literature is always about quests. And he's saying these characters are all on a quest to have a good death. And they come very early or very late to this. So Pierre comes very early to this realization, right? Which is why he's like the great Tolstoy hero, master of man, Ivan Ilyich, they come very, and Tolstoy is like, wow, they really get in under the wire. They nearly missed, this is terrible. And all the way through this story, Tolstoy is giving us the means to see what's really going on in the symbolism and in all the biblical references, which maybe is harder for us because we don't know our Bible, like we're not all hearing our Bible every week, whereas for Tolstoy's readers, it's different. But I think he's putting us in the position of the searcher all the time. And he is staging two sides of the argument through these two characters. And when they get to the village and Vasily, he meets the horse thief and the horse thief's like, oh, my friend. And then they go and see the family and the family mirrors them. And Tolstoy's like, he's like, as soon as you can see this, as soon as you can work this out, you can find the truth. But if you're just reading the story for a story, I'm going to have to catch you at the end. And you're going to have to have the revelation and be like, oh my God, it's a whole, oh, it's a whole thing. Okay, I thought they were just having a journey in the snow. And I think he does that a lot, right? That's, I think that's why people love War and Peace because we go on Pierre's journey so much. And we can recognize that like, people's lives have, a lot of people's lives happen like that. Like Pierre's always like half thinking the question through and then half like, oh, there's another question. And then thinking that one through and then, oh, no, wait, there's another question. And I think maybe Tolstoy is very pragmatic. Like that's as philosophical as most people are going to get. Pierre is in some ways the realistic ideal.Agnes: I mean, Pierre is very similar to Tolstoy just in this respect that there's a specific like moment or two in his life where, he basically has Tolstoy's crisis. That is he confronts these big questions and Tolstoy describes it as like, there was a screw in his head that had got loose and he kept turning it, but it kept, it was like stripped. And so no matter when you turned it, it didn't go. It didn't grab into anything. And what happens eventually is like, oh, he learns to have a good conventional home life. Like, and like not, don't ask yourself these hard questions. They'll screw you up. And I mean, it's not exactly compassion, but it's something close to that. The way things sort of work out in War and Peace. And I guess I think that you're sort of right that Tolstoy is having us figure something out for ourselves. And in that way, you could say we're on a journey. There's a question, why? Why does he have us do that? Why not just tell us? Why have it figured out for ourselves? And one reason might be because he doesn't know, that he doesn't know what he wants to tell us. And so you got to have them figure out for themselves. And I think that that is actually part of the answer here. And it's even maybe part of what it is to be a genius as a writer is to be able to write from this place of not really having the answers, but still be able to help other people find them.Henry: You don't think it's, he wants to tell us to be Christians and to believe in God and to take this like.Agnes: Absolutely, he wants to tell us that. And in spite of that, he's a great writer. If that were all he was achieving, he'd be boring like other writers who just want to do that and just do that.Henry: But you're saying there's something additional than that, that is even mysterious to Tolstoy maybe.Agnes: Yeah.Henry: Did you find that additional mystery in Master in Man or do you see that more in the big novels?Agnes: I see it the most in Death of Ivan Ilyich. But I think it's true, like in Anna Karenina, I can feel Tolstoy being pulled back and forth between on the one hand, just a straight out moralistic condemnation of Anna. And of, there are the good guys in this story, Levine and Kitty, and then there's this like evil woman. And then actually being seduced by her charms at certain moments. And it's the fact that he is still susceptible to her and to the seductions of her charms, even though that's not the moral of the story, it's not the official lesson. There's like, he can't help but say more than what the official lesson is supposed to be. And yeah, I think if he were just, I think he makes the same estimation of himself that I am making in terms of saying, look, he finds most of his own art wanting, right? In what is art? Because it's insufficiently moralistic basically, or it's doing too much else besides being, he's still pretty moralistic. I mean, even War and Peace, even Anna Karenina, he's moralistic even in those texts, but his artistry outstrips his moralism. And that's why we're attracted to him, I think. If he were able to control himself as a writer and to be the novelist that he describes as his ideal in what is art, I don't think we would be so interested in reading it.Henry: And where do you see, you said you saw it in Ivan Ilyich as well.Agnes: Yes, so I think in Ivan Ilyich, it is in the fact that there actually is no deus ex machina in Ivan Ilyich. It's not resolved. I mean, you get this little bit of relation to the servant, but basically Ivan Ilyich is like the closest that Tolstoy comes to just like full confrontation with the potential meaninglessness of human existence. There's something incredibly courageous about it as a text.Henry: So what do you think about the bit at the end where he says he was looking for his earlier accustomed fear of death, but he couldn't find it. Where was death? What death? There was no fear whatsoever because there was no death. Instead of death, there was light. Suddenly he said, oh, that's it, oh bliss.Agnes: Okay, fair enough. I'd like forgotten that.Henry: Oh, okay. Well, so my feeling is that like you're more right. So my official thing is like, I don't agree with that, but I actually think you're more right than I think because to me that feels a bit at the end like he saw the light and he, okay, we got him right under the line, it's fine. And actually the bulk of the story just isn't, it's leading up to that. And it's the very Christian in all its imagery and symbolism, but it's interesting that this, when it's, this is adapted into films like Ikiru and there was a British one recently, there's just nothing about God. There's nothing about seeing the light. They're just very, very secular. They strip this into something totally different. And I'm a little bit of a grumpy. I'm like, well, that's not what Tolstoy was doing, but also it is what he was doing. I mean, you can't deny it, right? The interpreters are, they're seeing something and maybe he was so uncomfortable with that. That's why he wrote what is art.Agnes: Yeah, and that's the, I like that. I like that hypothesis. And right, I think it's like, I sort of ignore those last few lines because I'm like, ah, he copped out at the very end, but he's done the important, he's done the important, the important work, I think, is for instance, the scene with, even on his wife, where they part on the worst possible terms with just hatred, you know, like just pure hatred for the fact that she's forcing him to pretend that he isn't dying. Like that is like the profound moment.Henry: What I always remember is they're playing cards in the other room. And he's sitting there, he's lying there thinking about like the office politics and curtain, like what curtain fabrics we have to pick out and the like, his intense hatred of the triviality of life. And I love this because I think there's something, like a midlife crisis is a bit like being an adolescent in that you go through all these weird changes and you start to wonder like, who am I? What is my life? When you're an adolescent, you're told that's great. You should go ahead and you should, yes, lean into that. And when you're like in your forties, people are going, well, try and just put a lid on that. That's not a good idea. Whereas Tolstoy has the adolescent fury of like curtains and cards. Oh my, you know, you can feel the rage of his midlife crisis in some of that seemingly mundane description. Yeah. I think that's what we respond to, right? That like his hatred in a way.Agnes: Yeah. I mean, maybe we, many of us just have trouble taking ourselves as seriously as Tolstoy was able to, you know? And that's something, there's something glorious about that, that anyone else would listen to the people around them telling him, hey, don't worry, you're a great guy. Look, you wrote these important novels. You're a hero of the Russian people. You've got this wife, you're an aristocrat. You've got this family, you've got your affairs. I mean, come on, you've got everything a man could want. Just be happy with it all, you know? Many of us might be like, yeah, okay, I'm being silly. And Tolstoy is like, no one's going to tell me that I'm silly. Like I'm the one who's going to tell myself, if anything. And that kind of confidence is, you know, why he's sort of not willing to dismiss this thought.Henry: Yeah, yeah, interesting. So how do you think of Master and Man in relation to all the others? Because you know Tolstoy pretty well. You teach him a lot. How do you place it? Like how good do you think it is?Agnes: I don't teach him a lot. I'm trying to think if I ever taught Tolstoy.Henry: Oh, I'm sorry. I thought I read that you had.Agnes: I've taught The Death of Ivan Ilyich. That's the one, I have taught that one. I wish, I mean, I would love to teach. I just can't imagine assigning any of these novels in a philosophy, my students wouldn't read it.Henry: They wouldn't read it?Agnes: No.Henry: Why?Agnes: It's pretty hard to get people to read long texts. And I mean, some of them certainly would, okay, for sure. But if I'm, you know, in a philosophy class where you'd have to kind of have pretty high numbers of page assignments per class, if we're going to, I mean, you know, forget War and Peace. I mean, even like Ivan Ilyich is going to be pushing it to assign it for one class. I've learned to shorten my reading assignments because students more and more, they're not in the habit of reading. And so I got to think, okay, what is the minimum that I can assign them that where I can predict that they will do it? Anyway, I'm going to be pushing that next year in a class I'm teaching. I normally, you know, I assign fiction in some of my classes but that's very much not a thing that most philosophers do. And I have to sign it alongside, you know, but so it's not only the fiction they're reading, they're also reading philosophical texts. And anyway, yeah, no, so I have not done much, but I have done in a class on death, I did assign Ivan Ilyich. I don't tend to think very much about the question, what is the level of quality of a work of art?Henry: Well, as in, all I mean is like, how does it compare for you to the other Tolstoy you've read?Agnes: I, so the question that I tend to ask myself is like, what can I learn from it or how much can I learn? Not, it's not because I don't think the question of, the other one is a good one. I just think I trust other people's judgment more than mine unlike artistic quality. And I guess I think it's not as good as Death of Ivan Ilyich and I kind of can't see, like, it's like, what do I learn from it that I don't learn from Death of Ivan Ilyich? Which is like a question that I ask myself. And, there's a way in which that like that little final move, maybe when I'm reading Death of Ivan Ilyich, I can ignore that little final bit and here I can't ignore it. Tolstoy made it impossible for me to ignore in this story. So that's maybe the advantage of this story. Tolstoy makes his move more overt and more dominating of the narrative.Henry: Yeah, I think also, I've known people who read Ivan Ilyich and not really see that it's very Christian. Yeah, oh yeah.Agnes: I don't think I- Much less.Henry: Yeah.Agnes: That's what I'm doing. I'm erasing that from the story.Henry: But that's like much less possible with this one. I agree.Agnes: Right, exactly. That's sort of what I mean is that- Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, here the message is more overt. And so therefore I think it's actually a pretty important story in that way. Like, let's say for understanding Tolstoy. That is, if you were to try to take your view of Tolstoy and base it on Death of Ivan Ilyich, which sometimes I do in my own head, because it's occupied such an important place for me, then this is a good way to temper that.Henry: Yeah, they make a nice pairing. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Let's pick up on this question about philosophers and fiction because you write about that in Open Socrates. You say, great fiction allows us to explore what we otherwise look away from. So it makes questions askable, but then you say only in relation to fictional characters, which you think is a limitation. Are you drawing too hard of a line between fictional characters and real people? Like if someone said, oh, we found out, we were in the archives, Ivan Ilyich, he didn't, it's not fiction. He was just a friend, just happened to a friend, basically word for word. He just did the work to make it kind of look okay for a novel, but basically it's just real. Would that really change very much?Agnes: I think it wouldn't, no. So it might change a little bit, but not that much. So maybe the point, maybe a better thing I could have said there is other people. That is one thing that fictional people are is resolutely other. There's no chance you're going to meet them. And like they are, part of what it is for them to be fictional is that, there isn't even a possible world in which you meet them because metaphysically what they are is the kind of thing that can't ever interact with you. And, like the possible world in which I run into Ivan and Ivan Ilyich is the world in which he's not a Tolstoy character anymore. He's not a character in a novel, obviously, because we're both real people. So I think it's that there's a kind of safety in proving the life of somebody who is not in any way a part of your life.Henry: The counter argument, which novelists would make is that if you gave some kind of philosophical propositional argument about death, about what it means to die, a lot of people just wouldn't, they'd like, maybe they'd understand what you're saying, but it just wouldn't affect them very much. Whereas if they've read Ivan Ilyich, this will actually affect them. I don't want to say it'll resonate with them, but you know what I mean. It will catch them in some way and they're more likely then to see something in their own life and be like, oh my God, I'm appreciating what Ivan Ilyich was telling me. Whereas, this is the argument, right? The statistics of social science, the propositions of philosophy, this just never gets through to people.Agnes: Yeah, so one way to put this is, novelists are fans of epiphanies. I mean, some novelists, like Tolstoy, it's quite explicit. You just get these epiphanies, right? Like in this story, epiphany. James Joyce, I mean, he's like master of every story in Dubliners, epiphany. Novelists have this fantasy that people's lives are changed in a sudden moment when they have a passionate, oh, I just read this story and I'm so happy about it. And I don't actually doubt that these things happen, these epiphanies, that is people have these passionate realizations. I don't know how stable they are. Like they may have a passionate realization and then, maybe it's a little bit the novelist's fantasy to say you have the passionate realization and everything is changed. In this story, we get around that problem because he dies, right? So, that, I don't know. I somehow am now James Joyce. I don't know. I somehow am now James Joyce is in my head. The final story in Dubliners is the dead. And there's this like, amazing, I don't know who read the story.Henry: Yeah, yeah. Also with snow, right?Agnes: Yeah, exactly.You know, and it's this amazing where this guy is realizing his wife, their relationship is not what he thought it was, whatever. But then the story ends, does he really change? Like, do they just go on and have the same marriage after that point? We don't know. I mean, Joyce avoids that question by having the story end. But, so you might say, you know, novelists like epiphanies and they're good at writing epiphanies and producing epiphanies and imagining that their readers will have epiphanies. And then there's a question, okay, how valuable is the epiphany? And I think, not nothing. I wouldn't put it at zero, but you might say, okay, but let's compare the epiphany and the argument, right? So, what philosophers and the social scientists have, what we have is arguments. And who's ever been changed by an argument? And I think I would say all of human history has been changed by arguments and it's pretty much the only thing that's ever done anything to stably change us is arguments. If you think about, like, what are the things we've moved on? What are the things we've come around on? You know, human rights, there's a big one. That's not a thing in antiquity. And it's a thing now. And I think it's a thing because of arguments. Some of those arguments, you know, are starting to come in their own in religious authors, but then really come in, the flourishing is really the enlightenment. And so you might think, well, maybe an argument is not the kind of thing that can change very easily an adult who was already pretty set in their ways and who is not going to devote much of their time to philosophizing. It isn't going to give them the kind of passionate feeling of your life has suddenly been turned around by an epiphany, but it might well be that if we keep arguing with each other, that is how humanity changes.Henry: I think a lot of the arguments were put into story form. So like the thing that changed things the most before the enlightenment maybe was the gospels. Which is just lots of stories. I know there are arguments in there, but basically everything is done through stories. Or metaphor, there's a lot of metaphor. I also think philosophers are curiously good at telling stories. So like some of the best, you know, there's this thing of micro fiction, which is like very, very short story. I think some of the best micro fiction is short stories. Is a thought experiment, sorry. Yeah. So people like Judith Jarvis Thompson, or well, his name has escaped my head, Reasons and Persons, you know who I mean? Derek Parfit, right. They write great short stories. Like you can sit around and argue about long-termism with just propositions, and people are going to be either like, this makes total sense or this is weird. And you see this when you try and do this with people. If you tell them Parfit's thought experiment that you drop a piece of glass in the woods, and a hundred years later, a little girl comes in and she cuts up. Okay, everyone's a long-termist in some way now. To some extent, everyone is just like, of course. Okay, fine. The story is good. The famous thought experiment about the child drowning in the pond. And then, okay, the pond is like 3000. Again, everyone's like, okay, I get it. I'm with you. Philosophers constantly resort to stories because they know that the argument is, you have to have to agree with you. You've got to have the argument. The argument's the fundamental thing. But when you put it in a story, it will actually, somehow it will then do its work.Agnes: I think it's really interesting to ask, and I never asked myself this question, like what is the relationship between a thought experiment and a story? And I think that, I'm fine with a thought experiment with saying it's a kind of story, but I think that, so one feature of a thought experiment is that the person who is listening to it is given often a kind of agency. Like, which way do you push the trolley? Or do you care that you left this piece of glass there? Or are you, suppose that the pond was so many miles away but there was a very long hand that reached from here and you put a coin in the machine and at the other end, the hand will pull the child out of the water. Do you put the coin in, right? So like you're given these choices. It's like a choose your own adventure story, right? And that's really not what Tolstoy wrote. He really did not write choose your own adventure stories. There's a, I think he is-Henry: But the philosopher always comes in at the end and says, by the way, this is the correct answer. I'm giving you this experiment so that you can see that, like, I'm proving my point. Peter Singer is not like, it's okay if you don't want to jump into the pond. This is your story, you can pick. He's like, no, you have to jump in. This is why I'm telling you the story.Agnes: That's right, but I can't tell it to you without, in effect, your participation in the story, without you seeing yourself as part of the story and as having like agency in the story. It's by way of your agency that I'm making your point. Part of why this is important is that otherwise philosophers become preachers, which is what Tolstoy is when he's kind of at his worst. That is, you know, the philosopher doesn't just want to like tell you what to think. The philosopher wants to show you that you're already committed to certain conclusions and he's just showing you the way between the premises you already accept and the conclusion that follows from your premises. And that's quite-Henry: No, philosophers want to tell you the particular, most philosophers create a thought experiment to be like, you should be a virtue ethicist or you should give money away. Like they're preaching.Agnes: I don't think that is preaching. So I think that, and like, I think that this is why so many philosophical thought experiments are sort of meant to rely on what people call intuitions. Like, oh, but don't you have the intuition that? What is the intuition? The intuition is supposed to be somehow the kind of visceral and inchoate grasp that you already have of the thing I am trying to teach you. You already think the thing I'm telling you. I'm just making it clear to you what you think. And, you know, like there's like, I want to go back to the gospels. Like, I think it's a real question I have. I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but I feel like something I sometimes think about Jesus and I say this as a non-Christian, is that Jesus was clearly a really exceptional, really extraordinary human being. And maybe he just never met his Plato. You know, he got these guys who are like telling stories about him. But like, I feel like he had some really interesting thoughts that we haven't accessed. Imagine, imagine if Socrates only ever had Xenophon. You know, if Socrates had never met Plato. We might just have this story about Socrates. Oh, he's kind of like a hero. He was very self-sacrificing. He asked everyone to care about everybody else. And he might like actually look quite a bit like Jesus on a sort of like, let's say simplistic picture of him. And it's like, maybe it's a real shame that Jesus didn't have a philosopher as one of the people who would tell a story about him. And that if we had that, there would be some amazing arguments that we've missed out on.Henry: Is Paul not the closest thing to that?Agnes: What does he give us?Henry: What are the arguments? Well, all the, you know, Paulian theology is huge. I mean, all the epistles, they're full of, maybe, I don't know if they're arguments more than declarations, but he's a great expounder of this is what Jesus meant, you should do this, right? And it's not quite what you're saying.Agnes: It's conclusions, right?Henry: Yes, yes.Agnes: So I think it's like, you could sort of imagine if we only had the end of the Gorgias, where Socrates lists some of his sayings, right? Yes, exactly, yes. You know, it's better to have injustice done to you than to do injustice. It's better to be just than to appear just. Oratories should, you should never flatter anyone under any circumstances. Like, you know, there's others in other dialogues. Everyone desires the good. There's no such thing as weakness of will, et cetera. There are these sort of sayings, right? And you could sort of imagine a version of someone who's telling the story of Socrates who gives you those sayings. And yeah, I just think, well, we'd be missing a lot if we didn't hear the arguments for the sayings.Henry: Yeah, I feel stumped. So the next thing you say about novelists, novelists give us a view onto the promised land, but not more. And this relates to what you're saying, everything you've just been saying. I want to bring in a George Eliot argument where she says, she kind of says, that's the point. She says, I'm not a teacher, I'm a companion in the struggle of thought. So I think a lot of the time, some of the differences we're discussing here are to do with the readers more than the authors. So Tolstoy and George Eliot, Jane Austen, novelists of their type and their caliber. It's like, if you're coming to think, if you're involved in the struggle of thought, I'm putting these ideas in and I'm going to really shake you up with what's happening to these people and you're going to go away and think about it and Pierre's going to stay with you and it's really going to open things up. If you're just going to read the story, sure, yeah, sure. And at the end, we'll have the big revelation and that's whoopee. And that's the same as just having the sayings from Socrates and whatever. But if you really read Middlemarch, one piece, whatever, Adam Bede is always the one that stays with me. Like you will have to think about it. Like if you've read Adam Bede and you know what happens to Hetty at the end, this has the, oh, well, I'm not going to spoil it because you have to read it because it's insane. It's really an exceptional book, but it has some of those qualities of the thought experiment. She really does put you, George Eliot's very good at this. She does put you in the position of saying like, what actually went right and wrong here? Like she's really going to confront you with the situation but with the difficulty of just saying, oh, you know, that's easy. This is what happened. This is the bad thing. Well, there were several different things and she's really putting it up close to you and saying, well, this is how life is. You need to think about that.Agnes: So that last bit, I mean, I think that this is how life is part. Yeah. Really do think that that's something you get out of novels. It's not, so here's how you should live it or so here's why it makes sense, or here are the answers. It's none of the answers, I think. It's just that there's a kind of, it's like, you might've thought that given that we all live lives, we live in a constant contact with reality but I think we don't. We live in a bubble of what it's, the information that's useful to me to take in at any given moment and what do I need in order to make it to the next step? And there's a way in which the novel like confronts you with like the whole of life as like a spectacle or something like that, as something to be examined and understood. But typically I think without much guidance as to how you should examine or understand it, at least that's my own experience of it is that often it's like posing a problem to me and not really telling me how to solve it. But the problem is one that I often, under other circumstances, I'm inclined to look away from and the novelist sort of forces me to look at it.Henry: Does that mean philosophers should be assigning more fiction?Agnes: I, you know, I am in general pretty wary of judgments of that kind just because I find it hard to know what anyone should do. I mean, even myself, let alone all other philosophers.Henry: But you're the philosopher. You should be telling us.Agnes: No, I actually just don't think that is what philosophers do. So like, it was like a clear disagreement about, you know, is the, like George Eliot's like, I'm not a teacher, but the philosopher also says I'm not a teacher. I mean, Tolstoy was like, I am a teacher.Henry: Yeah, I'm a teacher.Agnes: I'm ready to guide you all.Henry: You should take notes.Agnes: But I think it's right that, yeah. So I think it's like, you know, maybe they have some other way of forcing that confrontation with reality. But I, my own feeling is that philosophers, when they use examples, including some of the thought experiments, it's sort of the opposite of what you said. It's kind of like they're writing very bad fiction. And so they'll come up with these, like I am philosophy. We have to, we're forced to sort of come up with examples. And, you know, I discuss one in my aspiration book of, oh, once upon a time, there was a guy. And when he was young, he wanted to be a clown, but his family convinced him that he should be an investment banker and make money. And so he did that. But then when he was older, he finally recovered this long lost desire. And then he became a clown and then he was happy. It's a story in an article by a philosopher I respect. Okay, I like her very much. And I haven't read it in a long time. So I'm hoping I'm summarizing it correctly. But my point is like, and this is supposed to be a story about how sort of self-creation and self-realization and how you can discover your authentic self by contrast with like the social forces that are trying to make you into a certain kind of person. But it's also, it's just a very bad piece of fiction. And I'm like, well, you know, if I'm say teaching a class on self-creation as I do sometimes, I'm like, well, we can read some novelists who write about this process and they write about it in a way that really shows it to us, that really forces us to confront the reality of it. And that story was not the reality. So if you have some other way to do that as a philosopher, then great. I'm very instrumental about my use of fiction, but I haven't found another way.Henry: Which other fiction do you use in the self-creation class?Agnes: So in that class, we read Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man and Elena Ferrante's My Brilliant Friend. And we also read some Fernando Pessoa.Henry: Pessoa, what do your students think of Pessoa?Agnes: They love it. So when I first assigned it, I'm like, I don't know what you guys are going to make of this. It's kind of weird. We're reading like just, you know, 20 pages of excerpts I like from the Book of Disquiet. I mean, it's like my own text I'm creating, basically. I figure with that text, you can do a choose your own adventure. And they like it a lot. And I think that it really, that, you know, the thing that really resonates with them is this stuff where he talks. So there are two passages in particular. So one of them is, one where he talks about how he's like, yeah, he meets his friend. And he can't really listen to what his friend is saying, but he can remember with photographic precision the lines on the face when he's smiling, or like, it's like what he's saying is, I'm paying attention to the wrong thing. Like I'm paying attention to the facial expressions and not to the content. And that I'm somebody who's in a world where my organization of my own experience is not following the rules that are sort of being dictated to me about how my experience is supposed to be organized. And that's sort of his predicament. So that's a thing that they like. And then there's a wonderful passage about how I keep trying to free myself from the social forces oppressing me. And I take away this noose that's around my neck. And as I'm doing it, I realize my hand is attached to a noose and it's pulling me. Like I'm the one who's doing, I'm the one who's suffocating myself all along when I'm trying to free myself from social forces, it's me who's doing the oppressing. Anyway, so those are some passages that we talk about that they like. They like it a lot. They have a lot less trouble making something of it than I had expected that they would.Henry: Is this because he, is he well-suited to the age of social media and phones and fragmented personalities and you're always 16 different people? Is it that kind of thing?Agnes: Partly it's the short texts. I mean, as I said, meeting a problem, right? And so, yeah. So like they like Nietzsche too, probably for the same reason, right? I mean, anything where the-Henry: The aphorism.Agnes: Yeah, exactly. Like no joke. You know, it's not the era for War and Peace. It's the era for the Nietzschean aphorism.Henry: This is so depressing. I thought this wasn't true.Agnes: Yeah, I think it's true. I like, I had a conversation with a student in my office yesterday about this and about how like just his own struggles with reading and how all his friends have the same problem. And, you know, I have made some suggestions and I think maybe I need to push them harder in terms of, you know, just university creating device-free spaces and then people having like, I think we have to view it the way we view exercise. Like none of us would exercise if we didn't force ourselves to exercise. And we use strategies to do it. Like, you know, you have a friend and you're going to go together or, you know, you make a habit of it or whatever. I mean, like, I think we just have to approach reading the same way. Just let's accept that we're in an environment that's hostile to reading and make it a priority and organize things to make it possible rather than just like pretending that there isn't a problem. But yeah, there is. And it's hard for us to see. So you're not as old as me, but I'm old enough that all of my reading habits were formed in a world without all of this, right? So of course it's way easier for me. Even I get distracted, but, you know, for me spending a couple of hours in the evening reading, that's like a thing I can do. But like a lot of people, okay, I was at a like tech, in a little tech world conference in California. And it was early in the morning and my husband wasn't awake yet. So I was just, and it was one of these conferences where there's like a little group room and then you have your own, like we had like a hotel room type room, but like then I would had to be in the room with my husband who was sleeping. I couldn't turn the light on. So it was early. I woke up at four. So I went to the group room just to read. And I'm sitting there reading and someone came up to me and they were like, I can't believe you're just sitting there like reading. I don't think I've seen someone read a book in, you know, he's like ever or something, maybe. I mean, he's a half my age. Like he's like, that's just not a thing that people do. And it was like, he's like, it's so on brand that you're reading, you know? But it's like, it's, I think it's just, it's much harder for people who have grown up with all of this stuff that is in some way hostile to the world of reading. Yeah, it's much harder for them than for us. And we should be reorganizing things to make it easier.Henry: Yeah, I get that. I'm just, I'm alarmed that they can't read, like the depth of Ivan Ilyich. It's like, I don't know, it's like 50 pages or.Agnes: Yeah, for one class, no.Henry: It's very short. It's very short.Agnes: That's not short. 50 pages is not short.Henry: It's an hour or two hours of reading.Agnes: It's like, yeah, between two and three. They also read slower because they don't read as much.Henry: Okay, but you know what I'm like…Agnes: Yeah, right, three hours of reading is a lot to assign for a class. Especially if, in my case, I always also assign philosophy. So it's not the only thing I'm assigning.Henry: Sure, sure, but they read the philosophy.Agnes: Same problem. I mean, it's not like some different problem, right? Same problem, and in fact, they are a little bit more inclined to read the fiction than the philosophy, but the point is the total number of pages is kind of what matters. And from that point of view, philosophy is at an advantage because we compress a lot into very few pages. So, but you know, and again, it's like, it's a matter of like, it's probably not of the level. So I can, you know, I can be more sure that in an upper level class, students will do the reading, but I'm also a little bit more inclined to assign literature in the lower level classes because I'm warming people up to philosophy. So, yeah, I mean, but I think it is alarming, like it should be alarming.Henry: Now, one of the exciting things about Open Socrates, which most people listening to this would have read my review, so you know that I strongly recommend that you all read it now, but it is all about dialogue, like real dialogue. And can we find some, you know, I don't want to say like, oh, can we find some optimism? But like, people are just going to be reading less, more phones, all this talk about we're going back to an oral culture. I don't think that's the right way to phrase it or frame it or whatever, but there's much more opportunity for dialogue these days like this than there used to be. How can Open Socrates, how can people use that book as a way of saying, I want more, you know, intellectual life, but I don't want to read long books? I don't want to turn this into like, give us your five bullet points, self-help Socrates summary, but what can we, this is a very timely book in that sense.Agnes: Yeah, I kind of had thought about it that way, but yeah, I mean, it's a book that says, intellectual life in its sort of most foundational and fundamental form is social, it's a social life, because the kinds of intellectual inquiries that are the most important to us are ones that we can't really conduct on our own. I do think that, I think that some, there is some way in which, like as you're saying, novels can help us a little bit sort of simulate that kind of interaction, at least some of the time, or at least put a question on the table. I sort of agree that that's possible. I think that in terms of social encounters doing it, there are also other difficulties though. Like, so it's, we're not that close to a Socratic world, just giving up on reading doesn't immediately put us into a Socratic world, let's put it that way. And for one thing, I think that there really is a difference between face-to-face interaction, on the one hand, where let's even include Zoom, okay, or phone as face-to-face in an extended sense, and then texting, on the other hand, where text interaction, where like texting back and forth would be, fall under texting, so would social media, Twitter, et cetera, that's sort of- Email. Email, exactly. And I'm becoming more, when I first started working on this book, I thought, well, look, the thing that Socrates cares about is like, when he says that philosophy is like, you know, when he rejects written texts, and he's like, no, what I want to talk back, I'm like, well, the crucial thing is that they can respond, whether they respond by writing you something down or whether they respond by making a sound doesn't matter. And I agree that it doesn't matter whether they make a sound, like for instance, if they respond in sign language, that would be fine. But I think it matters that there is very little lag time between the responses, and you never get really short lag time in anything but what I'm calling face-to-face interaction.Henry: Right, there's always the possibility of what to forestall on text. Yeah. Whereas I can only sit here for like 10 seconds before I just have to like speak.Agnes: Exactly, and I mean, 10 seconds, that's a wild exaggeration. So do you know what the actual number is? No. On average. Okay, the average amount of time that you're allowed to wait before responding to something I say is two tenths of a second, which, it's crazy, isn't it? Which, that amount of time is not enough time for, that is a one second pause is an awkward pause, okay? So two tenths of a second is not long enough time for the signal that comes at the end of my talking, so the last sound I make, let's say, to reach your ears and then get into your brain and be processed, and then you figure out what you want to say. It's not enough time, which means you're making a prediction. That's what you're doing when I'm talking. You're making a prediction about when I'm going to stop talking, and you're so good at it that you're on almost every time. You're a little worse over Zoom. Zoom screws us up a little bit, right? But this is like what our brains are built to do. This is what we're super good at, is kind of like interacting, and I think it's really important that it be a genuine interaction. That's what I'm coming to see, is that we learn best from each other when we can interact, and it's not obvious that there are those same interaction possibilities by way of text at the moment, right? I'm not saying there couldn't be, but at the moment, we rely on the fact that we have all these channels open to us. Interestingly, it's the lag time on the phone, like if we were talking just by phone, is about the same. So we're so good at this, we don't need the visual information. That's why I said phone is also face-to-face. I think phone's okay, even though a lot of our informational stream is being cut. We're on target in terms of the quick responses, and there's some way in which what happens in that circumstance is we become a unit. We become a unit of thinking together, and if we're texting each other and each of us gets to ponder our response and all that, it becomes dissociated.Henry: So this, I do have a really, I'm really interested in this point. Your book doesn't contain scientific information, sociological studies. It's good old-fashioned philosophy, which I loved, but if you had turned it into more of a, this is the things you're telling me now, right? Oh, scientists have said this, and sociologists have said that. It could have been a different sort of book and maybe been, in some shallow way, more persuasive to more people, right? So you clearly made a choice about what you wanted to do. Talk me through why.Agnes: I think that it's maybe the answer here is less deep than you would want. I think that my book was based on the reading I was doing in order to write it, and I wasn't, at the time, asking myself the kinds of questions that scientists could answer. Coming off of the writing of it, I started to ask myself this question. So for instance, that's why I did all this reading in sociology, psychology, that's what I'm doing now is trying to learn. Why is it that we're not having philosophical conversations all the time? It's a real question for me. Why are we not having the conversations that I want us to be having? That's an empirical question, at least in part, because it's like, well, what kinds of conversations are we having? And then I have to sort of read up on that and learn about how conversation works. And it's surprising to me, like the amount of stuff we know, and that it's not what I thought. And so I'm not, maybe I'm a little bit less hostile than most philosophers, just as I'm less hostile to fiction, but I'm also less hostile to sort of empirical work. I mean, there's plenty of philosophers who are very open to the very specific kind of empirical work that is the overlap with their specialization. But for me, it's more like, well, depending on what question I ask, there's just like, who is ready with answers to the question? And I will like, you know, kind of like a mercenary, I will go to those people. And I mean, one thing I was surprised to learn, I'm very interested in conversation and in how it works and in what are the goals of conversation. And of course I started with philosophical stuff on it, you know, Grice and Searle, speech act theory, et cetera. And what I found is that that literature does not even realize that it's not about conversation. I mean, Grice, like the theory of conversational implicature and you know, Grice's logic on conversation, it's like if you thought that making a public service announcement was a kind of conversation, then it would be a theory of conversation. But the way that philosophers fundamentally understand speech is that like, you know, speakers issue utterances and then somebody has to interpret that utterance. The fact that that second person gets to talk too is not like part of the picture. It's not essential to the picture. But if you ask a sociologist, what is the smallest unit of conversation? They are not going to say an assertion. They're going to say something like greeting, greeting or question answer or command obeying or, right? Conversation is like, there's two people who get to talk, not just one person. That seems like the most obvious thing, but it's not really represented in the philosophical literature. So I'm like, okay, I guess I got to say goodbye philosophers. Let me go to the people who are actually talking about conversation. You know, I of course then read, my immediate thought was to read in psychology, which I did. Psychology is a bit shallow. They just don't get to theorize. It's very accessible. It's got lots of data, but it's kind of shallow. And then I'm like, okay, the people who really are grappling with the kind of deep structure of conversation are sociologists. And so that's what I've been reading a lot of in the past, like whatever, two months or so. But I just wasn't asking myself these questions when I wrote the book. And I think the kinds of questions that I was asking were in fact, the kinds of questions that get answered or at least get addressed in philosophical texts. And so those were the texts that I refer to.Henry: So all the sociology you've read, is it, how is it changing what you think about this? Is it giving you some kind of answer?Agnes: It's not changing any, my view, but any of the claims in the book, that is the exact reason that you brought out. But it is making me, it's making me realize how little I understand in a sort of concrete way, what like our modern predicament is. That is, where are we right now? Like what's happening right now? Is the question I ask myself. And I get a lot of, especially in interviews about this book, I get a lot of like, well, given where things are right now, is Socrates very timely? Or how can Socrates help or whatever? And I'm like, I don't think we know where things are right now. That is that given that, where is it? Where is it that we are? And so part of what this kind of sociology stuff is making me realize is like, that's a much harder question than it appears. And even where do we draw the lines? Like, when did now start happening? Like my instinct is like, one answer is like around 1900 is when now started happening. And, and so like, so I guess I'm interested both at the very micro level, how does the conversational interaction work? What are the ways in which I am deciding in this very conversation, I'm deciding what's allowed to be in and what's not allowed to be in the conversation, right? By the moves I'm making, and you're doing the same. How are we doing that? How are we orchestrating, manipulating this conversation so as to dictate what's in it and what's out of it in ways that are like below the surface that we're not noticing, that we either that we are doing it or that we're doing it ourselves. Neither of us is noticing, but we're doing that. So that's at the micro level. And then at the macro level is the question about when did now start happening? And what are the big shifts in like the human experience? And, are we at a point somehow in human history where culture like as a mechanism of coordination is a little bit falling apart and then what's going to come next? That's like a kind of question that I have to put in that kind of vague way. So maybe the right thing to say is that reading all these sociology texts has like, has given me a sets of questions to ask. And maybe what I'm trying to do is, it's like, what my book does is it describes a kind of ideal. And it describes that ideal, you know, using the power of reason to see what would it take to sort of set us straight? What is the straightened version of the crooked thing that we're already doing? And I think that that's right, but that's not at all the same thing as asking the question like, what's our next step? How do we get there from here? That's the question I'm asking now. But part of trying to answer the question, how do we get there from here is like, where are we now? And where are we both very, very locally in an interaction, what are we doing? And then in a big picture way, where are we? What is the big, what is like, you know, in the Taylor Swift sense, what era are we in? And, you know, I guess I still feel like we are, we are living in the world of Fernando Pessoa, Robert Musso, Virginia Woolf, James Joyce, Hermann Bruch, Franz Kafka, like that set of writers, like around 1900-ish set of writers who didn't all know each other or anything, didn't coordinate, but they all, there was this like primal scream moment where they were like, what the hell is going on? What has happened to humanity? Where are the rules? Like, who are we supposed to be? I mean, of all of those, I would pull out Musso as like the paradigm example. So this is me, I guess, taking inspiration from literature again, where I feel like, okay, there's something there about we're lost. There's an expression of, there's a thought we're lost. And I'm trying to understand, okay, how did we get lost? And are we still in that state of being lost? I think yes. And let's get a clear, once we get very clear on how lost we are, we'll already start to be found. Cause that's sort of what it is to, you know, once you understand why you're lost, like that's situating yourself.Henry: Those writers are a long time ago.Agnes: Yeah, I said around 1900.Henry: Yeah, but you don't, you don't, but there's nothing more recent that like expresses, like that's a very long now.Agnes: Yeah. Well, yes, I agree. So I say, when did now start happening? I think it started happening around 1900. So I think-Henry: So are we stuck?Agnes: Yeah, kind of. I think, so here's like a very, he's like a very simple part of history that must be too simple because history is not, is like, it's very mildly not my strong suit. I can't really understand history. But it's like, there is this set of writers and they don't really tell stories. It's not their thing, right? They're not into plot, but they are issuing this warning or proclamation or crisis, like flashing thing. And then what happens? What happens after that? Well, World War I happens, right? And then, you know, not very long after that, we got World War II and especially World War II, the result of that is kind of, oh no, actually we know what good and bad are. It's like fighting Nazis, that's bad. And, you know, so we got it all settled. And, but it's like, it's like we push something under the rug, I guess. And I think we haven't dealt with it. We haven't dealt with this crisis moment. And so, you know, I think I could say something very similar about Knausgaard or something that is, I think he's kind of saying the same thing and his novel has a novel, whatever you want to call it, the, you know, I'm talking about the later one. That's the kind of weird sort of horror quadrilogy or something. It has this feeling of like trying to express a sense of being lost. So there's more recent stuff that, a lot of it's autofiction, the genre of autofiction has that same character. So yeah, like maybe there is some big progress that's been made since then, but if there is, then it has passed me by.Henry: Agnes: Callard, thank you very much. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk/subscribe

Architects have been delivering one Metalcore album after another since 2004. On February 28th, they released their 11th studio album, "The Sky, The Earth & All Between." In an exclusive interview with ROCK ANTENNE, our colleague Maite Reck spoke with frontman Sam Carter and drummer Dan Searle back in December 2024. They discussed the new album, their upcoming summer shows as a support act for Linkin Park, and also some personal challenges.

A child protection advocate says an increase in abuse and neglect in care cases comes as no surprise. A report by the Independent Children's Monitor has found the number of young people being abused in state care has increased, and children aren't receiving the minimum standards of care required. Child Matters Chief Executive Jane Searle told Mike Hosking things need to change. She says the report shows Oranga Tamariki is still not doing what it was designed to do. Searle says changes need to start with the huge workload of social workers. LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Listener discretion advisedAs French police continue to investigate the violent deaths of British ex-pats Andrew and Dawn Searle, Simon Ford and Jacques Morrell discuss the possible behind-the-scenes developments of the inquiry.This podcast is also available as a video on YouTube.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/psycho-killer-shocking-true-crime-stories--5005712/support.

God is faithful I Drew Searle I 16th February 2025 I Wimborne by New Life Community Church

Send us a textThis is a current case after the bodies of Andrew and Dawn Searle were found in their home in Southern France on Thursday 6 February 2025. This is what is known after six days of investigation. I discuss the possible theories that have been reported in the media.

Welcome back to a new episode of the Pick and Go podcast. Joining us for the first time this season is Jeff Wilson and he joins Searle and Paul to look back at last week's rugby action. The 6 Nations gave us some impressive games, but the BIG question is what is going on with Wales.Should we be reading anything into Joe Schmidt's recent announcement to leave Australia. Of course, we have to talk about the Super Bowl. Is the Mahomes vs Brady debate over? We are also talking Rugby GOAT's who is the Super Rugby greatness of all time? With injuries to many teams for the start of the Super Rugby, will we see some unexpected results in the opening round? Who is winning the first game of the season between the Crusaders and the Hurricanes?

Today, we welcome Fraser Searle onto the R2Kast podcast. Fraser is a fascinating mix of social media star, sandwich enthusiast, and all-around creative. Having grown a massive following online, Fraser shares his journey from his early days in content creation to becoming a full-fledged social media sensation.

Jamie Searle, a.k.a. @jjeromemusic, joined me for Episode No. 154, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to've met him and gotten to know him a little bit.Jamie is a son, a husband, a father, a musician, a songwriter, a producer, and he's the guy that runs The Westport Bowery, so holler at him for any of your booking/entertainment needs for that venue.Our conversation touched on family, growing up, the lenses of perspective and identity, making art, being outdoors, and the love of music, just to name a few topics. While we were in that last neighborhood, we did pause for a moment to look at a few of Jamie's favorite albums, which were these:Rubber Soul (1965), The BeatlesDonny Hathaway & Roberta Flack's self-titled release (1972)Thriller (1982), Michael JacksonNirvana's Nevermind (1991)Malibu (2016), Anderson .PaakJamie's other Instagram handles are @chromaticcontact, @mbandskc, and @westportbowery, so please consider giving his @jjerome account a follow, and -- while you're there -- have a peek at those, too. For more information on what goes on at the Bowery, check them out at thewestportbowery.com.Thank you to Jamie, and to all of you for supporting the show.copyright disclaimer: I do not own the rights to the audio samples contained within this episode. They are snippets from a Lemon Jelly tune called, "Ramblin' Man," which comes from their 2002 effort, Lost Horizons (c/o XL Recordings LTD).

Yay! Hello everyone and welcome to this incredible episode. I'm so excited for you all to meet Trinity. She is an aspiring masculine/feminine polarity mentor with a passion for helping women tap into their divine feminine and learn how to cultivate polarity in relationships in today's world.We came across each other on socials, I just fell in love with her warm, genuine and clear energy. She breaks this topic down in a way that's very uncluttered. Check out her Free Feminine Energy Practices on her IG: @femininitywithtrinityIn this episode, we talk about: What is feminine energy? Trinity's breakdown. 4 pillars of feminine energy feminine archetypes feeling in vs. out of alignment with feminine energy the courting phase during dating polarity in relationships feminine energy practices---BOOK A SERVICE WITH ME HERE

In this second part of Minister's Questions 1, Tina and Artie are answering yet more questions from you and from guests on their tours.What is the most challenging thing about being a tour guide in Berlin? What was the best tour you got in a city that was not in Berlin? What is your favourite thing to do in the city when you're not showing people around? Watch to find out the answer to these and more!This was super fun, so if you have any questions, please do send them in using the contact form on our website or commenting on social media or slide into our DMs!You can also watch this episode as a video on YouTube.The Ministry of History offers more than just podcast episodes! Check out our blog for engaging historical insights, access transcripts of episodes, subscribe to our newsletter for updates and early access to posts, and explore our digital content. Planning a trip to Berlin? You can even book a history tour with Artie himself! To find all this, simply head to our website. You can also follow us on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

With the transformation of The History Buff into the Ministry of History, there is a new series called 'Minister's Questions' (MQs). This is where ministers from the Ministry will answer questions either submitted by you or just random questions. Themes will be about history but also about other things the Ministry does such as tours of Berlin. MQs was originally just going to be YouTube content, but during editing we decided that it works well as a podcast too!In this first episode, Minister Artie and Deputy Minister Tina, both Berlin tour guides, answer questions from online and also from visitors in Berlin about being a Berlin tour guide. We had quite a few questions so it's split into two parts. Please enjoy this first part and do let us know any questions you may have for us by getting in contact using the contact form on our website or over social media!Why did you move to Berlin? Why did you become a guide? What are your favourite topics to guide in? What topics don't you like? Listen to find out the answer to these and many other questions!MQs is primarily a YouTube series, so you can also watch this episode as a video on YouTube.The Ministry of History offers more than just podcast episodes! Check out our blog for engaging historical insights, access transcripts of episodes, subscribe to our newsletter for updates and early access to posts, and explore our digital content. Planning a trip to Berlin? You can even book a history tour with Artie himself! To find all this, simply head to our website. You can also follow us on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Himalaya are just one, albeit the longest and highest, of several mountain ranges between India and Central Asia. By world standards, these are massive ranges with some of the highest peaks on the planet.  The Karakoram boasts four of the world's fourteen 8,000-meter peaks, and the Hindu Kush, the Pamir, the Kunlun Shan, and the Tien Shan each have many peaks above 7,000 meters.  No mountain ranges outside this region have such high mountains.  Yet we seldom hear much about these ranges.  In the podcast, Mike Searle describes the origin and geology of six central Asian ranges and how they relate to the Himalaya and the collision of India with Asia. India continues to plow into Asia to this day. How is this movement accommodated? Searle explains the extrusion and crustal shortening models that have been proposed and describes the detailed mapping he and his colleagues conducted in the field in northern India that showed that both mechanisms are operating. Searle is Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences at the University of Oxford.

I'd write more here, but I've got places to be. Becky, Jeremy, and I are going to engage in some holiday festivities. We have a couple gingerbread houses to make and a tree to trim. And no nog to speak of. Really, that's all you get by way of show notes this time as a result, deal with it. Send your complaints to podcast@searls.co and they will be read on air. Some bullet points below the fold: My 90-minute, outdated guide to setting up a Mac Aaron's puns, ranked Jim Carrey is 62 and can't even retire I bought my 8 year old a switch and didn't realize how much games cost Teen creates memecoin, dumps it, earns $50,000 Startup will brick $800 emotional support robot for kids without refunds Install the Mozi app (manifesto here | app here) Vision Pro getting PSVR2 controllers The 2024 Game Awards news roundup Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet looks badass, but is it too inclusive for The Gamers? We don't talk about Luigi An invisible desktop app for cheating on technical interviews (HN comments) Sora is out, but it's not good yet Indiana Jones and the Great Circle is out, and it is good yet Emudeck is so great it shouldn't be legal, and some people probably think it isn't Pikmin Stay tuned to my YouTube channel for upcoming LIVE streams Transcript: [00:00:00] Thank you. [00:00:29] Good morning, internet. [00:00:32] I started speaking before I realized, as an asynchronous audio production, it's actually pretty unlikely that it's the morning where you are. [00:00:43] Although, if it is the morning, coincidentally, please feel free to be creeped out, check over your shoulder. [00:00:51] Today was, I woke up with Vim and Vigor this morning, super excited to take on the day, thinking maybe I've got what it takes to record an audio production today. [00:01:07] And then we have an elderly coffee pot. [00:01:11] I don't want to completely put the blame on it because we were using it wrong for several years. [00:01:24] And it's a long story that I will shorten to say, any piece of consumer electronics or appliances in America, the half-life keeps decreasing. [00:01:37] And so when I say elderly coffee pot, I mean that we bought this coffee pot post-COVID. [00:01:42] And it's already feeling like, oh, we should probably get a new coffee pot, huh? [00:01:45] What happens is, from time to time, heat will build up in the grounds dingus. [00:01:55] I'm just realizing now that I'm like, you know, I'm not a coffee engineer. [00:01:58] Some of you are. [00:02:00] But, you know, of course, we all know that the dingus is connected to the water spigot, which is above the craft. [00:02:09] And what happens, as far as I can tell, is once in a while, you get all that hot water and grounds swirling around. [00:02:20] And if it clogs at all, like if it doesn't release just so, the whole little undercarriage, again, this is a technical term, just stay with me. [00:02:30] And we'll pop forward like three millimeters, which is just enough for the water to kind of miss its target on the craft and then spray all who's he what's it's, as well as for the spigot to start just kind of like splurring, you know, this water coffee slurry everywhere. [00:02:49] And so I went after, you know, but then you still get the triumphant ding dong sound that the coffee is ready. [00:02:56] So I walked over to the coffee expecting like, yes, it's the best, best way to start my day or whatever. [00:03:06] Pull out the coffee. [00:03:07] And the pot is too light. [00:03:10] And I had a familiarity of like what that means. [00:03:13] It means like there is water somewhere. [00:03:17] And it's not in this pot. [00:03:19] And so it's just like, you know, this big, big machine we actually have we've put because of our Mr. [00:03:26] Coffee's, you know, elderly onset incontinence. [00:03:33] We have we have put the entire coffee pot on a tray, like a rimmed silicone tray that you would use for like, I guess, a dog feeding bowl, right? [00:03:45] A dog, you know, messily eats food and slaps water around and stuff. [00:03:49] And you don't want it all over your hardwood. [00:03:50] Like you'd put this underneath that and it would catch some of the water. [00:03:53] So we I spent the first 30 minutes of my waking life today getting my hopes up that I was going to have coffee, followed by, you know, painstakingly carrying this entire cradle of of of coffee pot full of hot brown liquid. [00:04:10] That would stay in all of my clothes and, you know, get on the cabinets and stuff with a silicone underbelly thing. [00:04:18] And just kind of like, you know, we've got one of those big we're very fortunate to have one of those big farmers, farmer house, farmhouse. [00:04:25] I never know what to call it. [00:04:27] Steel, basically a double wide sink. [00:04:30] So what's nice about a double wide sink is that if you've got a problem in your kitchen and you're only a few steps away, whether it's the coffee pot part of the kitchen or the fridge or the freezer or the God forbid, the range or the oven, you can just sort of strategically hurl whatever it is you're holding just about into the into the sink. [00:04:51] And then once it hits the sink, it's, you know, the the the potential damage is limited. [00:04:57] So I gently hurled my coffee apparatus. [00:05:02] Is that the plural of apparatus? [00:05:04] One wonders into the into the into the sink and then spent the next 20 minutes, you know, scrubbing them and all to make another pot. [00:05:13] And Becky, of course, walks down the minute that the second pot is about to be finished. [00:05:18] And I'm like, I've already seen some shit and I'm going to go record a podcast now. [00:05:22] And that swallow you just heard was me having a sip of coffee that was not disgusting, but not great. [00:05:31] But I'll take it over where I was an hour ago. [00:05:39] Thank you for for subscribing as a as a true believer in breaking change. [00:05:47] We're coming up on one year now. [00:05:49] It's hard to believe that it's already been a year, not because this has been a lot of work or a big accomplishment, but just because the the the agony of existence seems to accelerate as you get older. [00:06:03] It's one of the few kindnesses in life and so as we whipsaw around the sun yet again, we're about to do that. [00:06:11] This is the 26th edition version 26 of the podcast. [00:06:17] I've got two names here to release titles and I haven't picked one yet. [00:06:22] So as a special. [00:06:24] Nearing the end of the year treat. [00:06:29] I'm going to pitch them both to you now, right? [00:06:31] So so we're in this together. [00:06:33] I like to think this is a highly collaborative one person show. [00:06:37] Version 26 rich nanotexture. [00:06:42] And that's a nod to the MacBook Pro has a nanotexture anti-glare screen coding option. [00:06:52] It's a reference to the rich Corinthian leather that was actually it's a Chrysler reference. [00:06:58] It's a made up thing. [00:06:59] There is no such thing as Corinthian leather, but like that's what they called their their seating. [00:07:03] And Steve Jobs referenced that as being the inspiration for I think it was the iPad calendar app. [00:07:13] With the rich Corinthian leather up at the top during the era of skeuomorphic designs back in 2010, 2009, maybe I can't remember exactly when they I think it's 2010 when he had his famous actually leather chair demonstration of the iPad. [00:07:28] Maybe the reason that that stood out to me was the car reference because it is it is an upsell. [00:07:34] The nanotexture $150 if you want to have a don't call it matte finish. [00:07:41] The other one, so that's option one, rich nanotexture. [00:07:46] And I didn't love it because I couldn't get texture. [00:07:49] I couldn't get the same Corinthian, right? [00:07:53] Like you want that bite, the multisyllabic bite that adds the extra, you know, the gravitas of a luxury good. [00:08:04] Yeah, texture just didn't have it for me. [00:08:06] But then if you change that word, it doesn't make sense. [00:08:08] So I mean, the other option two that came to mind version 26 don't don't by the way, don't think I'm going to edit this in post and fix it. [00:08:19] I will not. [00:08:20] I will ultimately land on one of these and that will be the title that you saw on your podcast player. [00:08:25] Or maybe some third thing will come to mind and then this conversation will be moot. [00:08:29] I do not think of this collaborative exercise. [00:08:32] Just imagine it's a it's a it's a quantum collaboration. [00:08:37] So by observing it, that's you actually took part. [00:08:41] You opened your podcast player and then the yeah, the entangled, you know, bits just they coalesced around one of these two names or some third name. [00:08:58] It's all just statistics version 26 Luigi's Mansion, which is a nod to two things at once. [00:09:05] I'm going to talk a little bit about GameCube, but also I'll probably not escape mentioning Luigi Manjoni Manjoni man. [00:09:15] You know, I haven't been watching the news. [00:09:17] I don't know how to pronounce his name, but it looks enough like mansion that I was like, oh, man. [00:09:21] I bet you there's a Nintendo PR guy whose day just got fucking ruined by the fella who is a overnight folk hero. [00:09:30] More attractive than most assassins, I would say. [00:09:35] Great hair. [00:09:36] Good skin. [00:09:37] Apparently, skincare Reddit is all about this fella who murdered in cold blood the CEO of UnitedHealthcare. [00:09:45] If you haven't caught the news, if you're even less online than I am. [00:09:51] And yeah, so I'm trying to decide. [00:09:53] I think Luigi's Mansion is probably going to win. [00:09:56] It's more timely. [00:09:57] It's the first time the name Luigi has come up in the last year. [00:10:00] And I may have mentioned nanotexture before when discussing Apple's very compromised studio display. [00:10:11] So I'm leaning Luigi's Mansion, but, you know, don't tempt me. [00:10:15] I might switch. [00:10:18] I'm going to just keep drinking coffee because I got to power through this. [00:10:21] Let's talk about some life stuff. [00:10:24] I so when we last talked that way back in the heady days of version 25, I had just gotten off a plane from Japan. [00:10:34] I was still a little bit jet lagged. [00:10:36] I recorded later in the evening. [00:10:38] I was tired. [00:10:39] You know, I was still overcoming. [00:10:41] I listened to the episode, realized I was overcoming a cold. [00:10:44] You know, then Becky shortly thereafter, after recording, she developed a pretty bad cough. [00:10:51] And so we've both been sleeping relatively poorly. [00:10:53] And I can't complain about this cough because her having a cough for four nights is nothing like me snoring on and off for over a year. [00:11:02] And I think the fact that her cough is consistent is actually a kindness compared to the sporadic nature of my snoring, where it's like I might go a week without it. [00:11:11] And then all of a sudden there's like, bam. [00:11:14] So she doesn't, you know, it's like sneaks up on her and that's not fair. [00:11:17] So so she's got a cough and I haven't been sleeping particularly well. [00:11:20] Maybe that's it. [00:11:22] I also, you know, I wanted to dry out because I was living on shoe highs, you know, canned cocktails in Japan for way too long. [00:11:30] Just drinking, you know, five whole dollars of alcohol every day, which is an irresponsible amount of alcohol. [00:11:36] It turns out. [00:11:40] Yeah, that's one nice thing about living in Orlando and theme park Orlando is that the average price of a cocktail here is seriously $20. [00:11:49] I think it is. [00:11:51] I am delighted and surprised when I find a cocktail under $20. [00:11:55] That's any good. [00:11:55] In fact, the four seasons right around the corner, their lobby bar has a some of the best bartenders in the state of Florida. [00:12:05] Like they went all kinds of awards. [00:12:06] And so when you say a lobby bar, you think it sucks. [00:12:09] But it's actually it's like it's a it's a restaurant with a room if you're ever around and they still do a happy hour with like $4. [00:12:18] It was $4 beers. [00:12:19] I think they finally increased to $5 beers draft beer. [00:12:23] And it's all craft. [00:12:25] You know, it's all fancy people stuff. [00:12:27] And they do it's I think it's $10 margaritas, French 75s, and they got some other happy hour cocktail. [00:12:37] It was highballs for a while. [00:12:39] Whiskey highballs was like probably centauri toki or something. [00:12:43] I gotta say like that $10 margarita. [00:12:47] They'll throw some jalapeno in there if you want some tahini rim, you know, they do it up. [00:12:52] They do it well. [00:12:54] But that might be the cheapest cocktail I've had in all of Orlando is at the Four Seasons. [00:13:01] Famous for that TikTok meme of the Four Seasons baby, if you're a TikTok person. [00:13:06] Anyway, all that all all this drinking talk back to the point. [00:13:11] I've been not drinking for a week. [00:13:12] And I, you know, I'm back to tracking my nutrients every day. [00:13:17] The things that I consume and adding up all of the protein and carbohydrate and realizing [00:13:21] if you don't drink, it's actually really easy to blow past one's protein goals. [00:13:25] And so I had one day where I had like 240 grams of protein, which is [00:13:28] enough protein that you'll feel it the next morning if you're not used to it. [00:13:34] And I still was losing weight. [00:13:38] I lost like five or six pounds in the last week. [00:13:43] And to the point where it was like, you know, I was feeling a little lightheaded, [00:13:47] a little bit woozy because I wasn't drinking enough is the takeaway. [00:13:52] So so thank God we got to go to a Christmas party last night. [00:13:57] It was it was great Gatsby themed. [00:13:58] And I dressed up like a man who wanted to do the bare minimum to not get made fun of at the party. [00:14:05] So I had some some suspenders on instead of a belt, which was the first time I ever put on suspenders. [00:14:13] They were not period appropriate suspenders simply because they had the, you know, the [00:14:18] little class B dues instead of how they had some other system for I don't I don't fucking know. [00:14:25] Like I, I had chat GPT basically helped me through this. [00:14:28] And it's like, hey, you want these kinds of suspenders? [00:14:30] I'm like, that sounds like an ordeal. [00:14:31] How about I just get some universal one size fits all fit and clip them in? [00:14:36] I also had a clip on bow tie. [00:14:37] So that worked. [00:14:39] When you think clip on bow tie, I guess I'd never used one before, but like it, I always [00:14:45] assumed it would just be like, you know, like a barrette clip that would go in front of the [00:14:49] front button and look silly for that reason. [00:14:51] And maybe that's how they used to be. [00:14:53] But it seems these days, if you want to spend $3 on a fancy clip on bow tie with a nice texturing, [00:14:58] I'll say, uh, it's just pre it's a pre tied bow with a still wraps around your neck. [00:15:04] It's just, it has a class mechanism, which seems smart to me, right? [00:15:08] I don't know what. [00:15:09] Look, if you're really into men's fashion, uh, there's this weird intersection or this tension [00:15:19] between I'm a manly man who, who ties my own shoes and, you know, kills my own dinner and [00:15:25] stuff. [00:15:25] And I, I, for fuck's sake, tie my own bow tie from scratch every day. [00:15:29] Right? [00:15:29] Like there's a toxically masculine approach to bow ties, but at the same time, it is such [00:15:35] a foofy accoutrement. [00:15:37] It's like an ascot, um, that the idea of like a manly man, like a man trying to demonstrate [00:15:43] his manliness by the fact that he doesn't use a clip on bow tie, uh, came to mind yesterday [00:15:50] when I was, uh, struggling even with the clasping kind. [00:15:54] I was like, man, I wish I could just get this to anyway. [00:15:58] Um, I had a vest at a gray vest. [00:16:03] This is all brand new territory for me. [00:16:05] Uh, yeah, I, I've, I've leaned pretty hard into the t-shirt and shorts and or jeans life [00:16:10] for so long. [00:16:12] Uh, the, the fella in front of us when we, when we were checking in, cause they took little [00:16:16] photos of you, uh, all of the women had the same exact flapper dress from Amazon, you know, [00:16:22] with the, the, the, the hairband thing with the, you know, fake, the polyester peacock tail. [00:16:28] Becky's looked the best. [00:16:29] I'm not gonna, I'm not even lying. [00:16:32] Uh, uh, her dress actually fit. [00:16:35] He had some, uh, very ill fitting flapper costumes that these women couldn't even move in. [00:16:40] Um, it was interesting. [00:16:42] Uh, but the, the fella in front of us at check-in was wearing a, a, a full blown, you know, tuxedo [00:16:48] get up that he brought from home. [00:16:50] And he was talking about, Oh yeah, well he's got two of them and his wife, you know, ribbed [00:16:54] him a little bit that he could only fit in one. [00:16:55] I was like, man, owning a tuxedo, that's nuts. [00:16:58] Like, and then it like turns out he's like got all these suits and these fancy clothes and [00:17:02] he's an older gentleman. [00:17:05] Uh, but my entire career only the first few years did I have to think about what I was [00:17:10] wearing and, and it never really got beyond pleated, you know, khakis and a starched shirt. [00:17:18] And, and I had, I had to wear a suit maybe on two sales calls. [00:17:22] Um, and they were always the sales calls that were just, uh, there were certain sales demos [00:17:30] when I was a, a, a baby consultant, these really complex bids. [00:17:39] I remember we were at cook County once, uh, uh, the, the county that wraps Chicago and it [00:17:44] has a lot of functions and facilities that operate at the county level. [00:17:48] So, but of course we're in Chicago in some, you know, uh, dystopian office building. [00:17:54] That's very Gothic, I should say. [00:17:57] And the, the solution that we were selling was a response to a bid around some kind of [00:18:05] document, electronic document ingestion and, and, and routing solution. [00:18:09] And so what, what that meant was it was like a 12 person team. [00:18:14] It was a big project working on this pitch. [00:18:18] And most of the work and most of the money came from the software side at the end of the [00:18:23] process. [00:18:23] It's like, you're going to get IBM file net and you're going to get all these different, [00:18:26] uh, enterprise tools. [00:18:28] And we're going to integrate, uh, with all your systems and, and build these custom integrations [00:18:32] that you've asked for here and here and here. [00:18:33] But the, the, the hard part is the human logistics of how do you get all of their paper documents [00:18:41] into the system. [00:18:42] Uh, and that was my job was I had to get paper and then scan it, uh, with a production, big [00:18:50] Kodak funkin fucking scanner. [00:18:52] Uh, and then use, what was it? [00:18:54] Kofax capture or something like a, like an OCR tool of the era. [00:18:59] And the thing about it is that scanning is not, was not ever a science and neither is [00:19:07] OCR, the OCR stuff and OCR stands for optical character recognition. [00:19:10] So you'd have a form and you'd write on the form, like, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, some, [00:19:15] some demo address and name and all this. [00:19:19] I spent. [00:19:22] So like the people doing the software, like they, they could just like click a button and [00:19:26] like, they could even just use fakery, right? [00:19:29] Like, Oh, the API is not really there, but I'll always return this particular, like, let's [00:19:33] call it an XML soap message. [00:19:34] And so the, the software guys clocked in, clocked out, got back to their billable work. [00:19:39] I, because the stakes were so high in this particular, uh, and I'm here right now explaining [00:19:46] all of this nonsense because I had to wear a suit and that was also really bad, but I [00:19:51] was in Chicago late at night with a group of like, at that point it was like 9 PM and it [00:19:54] was just me and two partners. [00:19:56] Cause the partners had a sickness called avoid family, stay at work. [00:20:02] And, uh, I, I was just running over and over and over again where I'd like, you know, [00:20:09] I'd take the paper, I'd put it through the scanner and it would get 90% of the OCR stuff [00:20:13] done, or I'd get it perfect. [00:20:15] And it would scan everything just right, which would result in the downstream, you know, after [00:20:21] the capture, like all of my integrations, like would route it to the right thing. [00:20:24] So that like, it was basically a game of mousetrap or dominoes where like my task was both [00:20:29] the most important to being able to demonstrate, but also the most error prone, but also the [00:20:37] least, uh, financially like, um, valuable to, to our services company. [00:20:42] And so I had no support, uh, on top of that, they, the, our fucking it people pushed out some [00:20:49] kind of, um, you know, involuntary security update security and bunny quotes that, that [00:20:57] slowed my system down dramatically in the course of just like a day. [00:21:01] And I had, I had no way to test for this. [00:21:04] So I remember I was up at like 11 PM at that point, trying to make this work consistently [00:21:10] and realizing that the only way to get it to run it all required me to, um, install a virtual [00:21:16] machine, put windows in the virtual machine, install all this software inside that virtual [00:21:22] machine, and then run it there because only in the black box of an encrypted virtual machine [00:21:27] image or, uh, you know, a virtual machine, like disc image, could I evade all of the accountant [00:21:33] bullshit that was trying to track and encrypt and, and, and muck with files and flight and [00:21:38] so forth. [00:21:39] And so it was only around like probably one 30 or two that I got to bed and our, our demo [00:21:46] was like at seven in the morning and I had to wear a suit. [00:21:47] So if you ever wonder, Hey, why is Justin always just in a, a t-shirt and shorts? [00:21:54] Uh, I would say childhood trauma, fuck suits. [00:21:59] The only, the only time I associate like nice clothes, you know, having a lot of [00:22:03] having to dress up is church shit. [00:22:05] I didn't want to go to. [00:22:06] And usually it's like the worst church shit. [00:22:09] Like there's some cool church shit out there, you know, youth group where everyone's a horny, [00:22:14] right. [00:22:15] And singing pop songs to try to get people in. [00:22:17] That's as church shit goes, that's above average. [00:22:21] But when you're talking about like, Hey, you know, this aunt you've never heard of died and [00:22:27] we got to go all the way to goddamn Dearborn to sit in a Catholic mass, that's going to [00:22:32] be in Latin. [00:22:33] And they're going to, you know, one of those, you know, you should feel bad for him because [00:22:39] he's abused. [00:22:39] But one of the altar boys, he's going to be waving that little like incense thingy, [00:22:43] the jigger back and forth and back and forth like a metronome. [00:22:46] And, uh, you're going to get all this soot in your face, all of that, you know, frankincense [00:22:51] and myrrh and whatever the fuck they burn. [00:22:52] And, uh, yeah, then they're going to play some songs, but they're not going to be songs you [00:22:57] want to hear. [00:22:57] And you're going to be uncomfortable because I bought you this suit at JC Penny when you [00:23:01] were like nine and you're 12, you're 12 now, and you've gained a lot of weight, but [00:23:06] here we are. [00:23:07] And then you got to go and, you know, like, don't worry because after the service, there's [00:23:12] a big meal, but it's mostly just going to be, you know, styrofoam plates and plastic forks [00:23:16] and, uh, cold rubbery chicken. [00:23:19] And then a whole lot of family members who want to pinch your cheeks, uh, had an aunt that [00:23:24] always wanted to, um, put on a bunch of red lipstick and kiss me and leave kiss marks. [00:23:30] And she thought that was adorable and everyone else thought it was funny. [00:23:33] And for whatever reason, I wasn't a fan, uh, that's the kind of, uh, yeah, so anyway, moving [00:23:45] right along the, uh, the, the other than having to dress up, the, the Christmas party was really [00:23:50] nice because it had an all you can drink martini bar. [00:23:52] So that, that helped that took the edge off a little bit since I hadn't been drinking for [00:23:57] the previous week. [00:23:57] Uh, and it was, you know, uh, they, they had a great bartender, the, the, I assume that [00:24:07] that people drank gin martinis back in the day of Gatsby, but it seemed to be a vodka forward [00:24:12] martini bar, which I appreciated. [00:24:15] Uh, as I get older and my taste buds start dying, uh, I found myself going from dry martinis [00:24:23] to martinis with an olive to martinis with two olives to me asking for like a little bit of [00:24:30] olive juice and then drinking the martini and realizing that wasn't quite enough olive juice. [00:24:34] So that's just disgusting, but, um, it's where, uh, it's one of the signs of age, I guess. [00:24:43] Uh, so the martini bar was good. [00:24:46] Uh, they also had an aged old fashion that they'd made, you know, homemade, um, with like nutmeg [00:24:51] and cinnamon in there. [00:24:52] That was impressive. [00:24:53] Uh, so yeah, had a, had a big old Christmas party last night, had a couple of drinks, uh, [00:25:00] and, and, uh, because of the contrast, whenever I go, you know, go a week without any alcohol [00:25:06] and then I have some alcohol and then I wake up the next morning and I'm like, oh yes, I [00:25:11] know what people mean now that alcohol is poison. [00:25:13] And it's a mildly poisonous thing because I feel mildly poisoned. [00:25:19] Um, and, and I just usually feel that most days until I forget about it. [00:25:23] So it's a data point, uh, to think about, uh, uh, I, I, I had a good, good run for, [00:25:30] for a while there, just cause like when you live in a fucking theme park and there's nowadays [00:25:34] alcohol everywhere that I go and every outing, I had a good run for a few months. [00:25:40] Um, not last year, the year before where I just didn't drink at home as a rule to myself. [00:25:46] I was like, you know, I'm not going to pour any liquor for myself at home unless I'm entertaining [00:25:49] guests. [00:25:50] And, uh, even then go easy on it because I I'm, I'm, I'm going to just the background radiation [00:25:56] of existence in when you live in a bunch of resorts. [00:25:59] Uh, I'll, I'll get, I'll get, I'll get plenty of alcohol subcutaneously. [00:26:05] Um, a contact tie. [00:26:07] So maybe I'll, maybe I'll try that again. [00:26:10] I don't know. [00:26:11] It's the stuff you think about in mid December when you're just inundated with specialty food [00:26:17] and drink options, uh, do other life stuff that isn't alcohol or religion or clothing [00:26:27] related. [00:26:28] Oh, uh, uh, I've been on a quest to not necessarily save a bunch of money, not necessarily. [00:26:35] Uh, I was going to say, uh, tighten my belt, but, uh, I don't know what the suspender equivalent [00:26:43] is because I did not wear a belt last night. [00:26:45] I just wore suspenders. [00:26:46] Uh, I've been interested in, in not budgeting either. [00:26:52] Just, I think awareness. [00:26:54] Like I want, I know that a lot of money flies through my pockets every month in the form of, [00:27:01] um, SAS software subscriptions and streaming services. [00:27:05] I mentioned this last, uh, last go round that I was recommending, Hey, let's say, go take a [00:27:11] look at like our unused streaming subscriptions of those. [00:27:14] Uh, yesterday I did cancel max. [00:27:16] Cause I realized that, uh, if I'm not watching a lot of news, I'm not going to watch John Oliver [00:27:20] and, and they frankly, a lot of HBO's prestige shows haven't been besides they cut a Sesame [00:27:28] street and it just so happened that I canceled that day. [00:27:31] So maybe there's a, some data engineer at HBO who's like, Oh man, people are canceling because [00:27:37] we got rid of Sesame street. [00:27:38] Uh, that would be good. [00:27:40] That would be good for America to get that feedback. [00:27:43] Uh, yeah. [00:27:44] I just want awareness of like, where's the money going and in what proportion and does that sound [00:27:50] right to me? [00:27:50] Uh, and I've, there are software tools for this. [00:27:53] Uh, they are all compromised in some way. [00:27:57] For example, we just, uh, we'd used lunch money in the past, which is a cool app. [00:28:02] And it has the kind of, you know, basic integrations you would expect. [00:28:06] I don't know if it uses plaid or whatever behind the covers, but like you, you connect your, your, [00:28:11] your checking accounts, your credit card accounts. [00:28:14] It lists all your transactions is very, um, customizable in terms of rules that you can [00:28:21] set. [00:28:21] It has an API. [00:28:22] Jen is a solo co-founder and she seems really, really competent and lovely and responsive, [00:28:27] which are all great things. [00:28:29] But the UI is a little clunky for me. [00:28:32] I don't like how it handled URLs. [00:28:33] It was like, once you got all the transactions in there and, and set up, it didn't feel informative [00:28:41] because there wasn't like a good reporting or graphs that just kind of at a glance would [00:28:45] tell you, this is where your money's going. [00:28:46] At least for me. [00:28:47] Uh, additionally, like it, it can't do the Apple card. [00:28:51] That's the, that's become the crux for a lot of these services is that, um, Apple card [00:28:55] only added support for reading. [00:28:59] Uh, well now you can read, uh, uh, so I, Apple added away on iOS and specifically iPhone [00:29:07] OS to read, uh, transactions from Apple card, Apple savings and Apple cash. [00:29:14] And this was like nine months ago, if that, but copilot, uh, money is one of two apps maybe [00:29:22] that supports this. [00:29:23] And so if you, if you have, we have, we each have an Apple card and we use it for kind of [00:29:29] our silly stuff whenever we're, you know, using a tap to pay. [00:29:33] So, so if, if you want to track transactions and you don't want to manually export CSVs [00:29:40] from your wife's phone every 30 days, which is the process that I'd fallen into with, with [00:29:44] lunch money, then you, you basically have copilot money. [00:29:50] And then there's another one, maybe Monarch, uh, the copilot money. [00:29:53] People are always talking about this other app called Monarch. [00:29:55] I haven't checked it out. [00:29:55] I don't know if that's why they like it or if it's just the other one that's being developed [00:29:59] right now in this post mint apocalypse, as we all grapple with the fact that mint was [00:30:04] always bad, uh, but people got into it and I don't copilot money is like nice, but like [00:30:11] it, like, for example, like if I'm, uh, if I buy a, uh, if I put $10, the equivalent of [00:30:19] $10, so 1000 yen on my Starbucks card in Japan, which is totally separate because of course it [00:30:25] is there's two Starbucks cards. [00:30:27] There's the one in Japan and then the one in the rest of the world. [00:30:30] So you open the Japanese only app, you put a thousand yen on it. [00:30:33] Uh, you pay for that with Apple pay. [00:30:36] So which goes to my Apple card and copilot money will read that transaction. [00:30:40] But if you read like the text in the merchant description, it's literally like [00:30:44] staba day and it's like all no spaces. [00:30:47] It's just like 40 characters in a row to, and if you really squint, you can kind of see [00:30:52] Starbucks, Japan, um, you know, app store payment, which is, you know, like I want to [00:31:00] change that to Starbucks, Japan, and then set up a rule to just like always change that. [00:31:05] So I don't have to like memorize these random ass merchant names. [00:31:08] Uh, apparently like after, after two hours of setting up copilot money yesterday, I realized [00:31:13] that there's like both no way to set up that kind of rule. [00:31:16] The only rule that it supports is categorization of, of spending fine, but then if you set [00:31:22] up a rule and you don't like it, there's no way to edit the rules cause there's no UI for [00:31:25] rule editing. [00:31:26] And so then, you know, where do you go, but read it and you're like, okay, well there's [00:31:30] a subreddit. [00:31:30] And then like, what's half the post in the subreddit? [00:31:32] It's about, Oh, of course it's a bunch of dads who are like, I can't see my rules and I have [00:31:36] to contact support. [00:31:37] And it's been nine months. [00:31:38] And I was like, Oh God. [00:31:39] So that's, uh, if anyone's got any great budgeting software that supports Apple card, you let me [00:31:46] know. [00:31:47] Uh, and also isn't a part-time job. [00:31:50] I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna spend all day on this. [00:31:52] I'm not, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna check in on this, uh, the four times a year that I, that [00:31:58] I wake up in a cold sweat wondering, Oh my God, how many subscriptions do I have? [00:32:02] Which is, uh, I, I really missed my calling by not being a dad, I guess. [00:32:07] But it did land me on looking at rocket money. [00:32:11] Uh, so, so, so there was an app called true bill that marketed heavily with like a lot of [00:32:19] other DTC apps where the pitch was, we will negotiate your bills for you. [00:32:26] And by bills, I think that one of the reasons why this, this, this business probably struggled [00:32:31] is that there's really only two that they could reasonably negotiate on your behalf. [00:32:37] You know, you, you imagine they've got a call center or they've got people who've, who [00:32:40] are trained, who have scripts that they follow, who, who will doggedly keep calling back until [00:32:44] they get what, you know, the discount, the, just the steps that you would have to go through [00:32:48] if you wanted to call Comcast or Verizon, they, they, they, they can basically could basically [00:32:57] only really negotiate your ISP and your cell phone carrier. [00:33:01] Cause those are the two sort of, you know, that are, that are transactional enough that [00:33:08] are regionalized or nationalized enough that they, that they could train on. [00:33:11] And then of course, like they, they're the ones that like get you in with a teaser rate and [00:33:15] then gradually turn up the heat over the course of a couple of years. [00:33:19] Well, Quicken Loans bought, they rebranded as rocket and then rocket fill in the blank [00:33:26] with other products. [00:33:26] And they bought true bill around the same time. [00:33:29] And I, my understanding from a distance is that true bill, uh, uh, that became rocket money [00:33:36] in order to be an entree into other rocket star services. [00:33:41] So like you, you now, when you install rocket money, it's still got the negotiation thing. [00:33:46] Cause that's what they market it on, but you have to slog through so much like, no, I'm actually [00:33:52] all set with credit and, and, and, and debt repayment services. [00:33:57] And I'm, I'm already all set with financial advisors and retirement goals. [00:34:00] I just get me to the, to the thing where I can pay you 35% of whatever you save me on [00:34:06] my ISP bill. [00:34:07] And so of course, you know, like I, I, I signed up for the first time, went through the app [00:34:12] onboarding. [00:34:13] I was not impressed with the bugginess of the app, but I was able to soldier on through [00:34:19] it. [00:34:19] And where I landed was I was, uh, following its little setup wizard for first. [00:34:27] Spectrum, which is my internet provider. [00:34:28] And I was, I'd initially paid a hundred dollars when I moved here in 2021, uh, a month for, [00:34:36] for one gig down, call it 30 megabits per second up. [00:34:40] And I can't get a, another ISP here. [00:34:43] They had an exclusive agreement. [00:34:44] They're building neighborhoods bullshit. [00:34:47] Uh, and I, I, so I can't get higher upstream and that really gets in my crawl. [00:34:53] Nevertheless, they have increased prices about $15 a year. [00:34:59] Each time I'm here to the point now where I think my monthly, you know, debit is like $150, [00:35:05] $145 and you fill it out and you give them your pin number. [00:35:11] You got this customer pin that like, you know, is secures your account. [00:35:14] I'm like, eh, all right, well, that's four digits, you know? [00:35:17] And besides I'm already on like this one dead simple plan. [00:35:20] It's just their normal plan. [00:35:22] And it's, you know, like I'm paying top dollar for it. [00:35:26] So what's the worst that they could do if they, if somebody else were to call and change [00:35:30] my plan up, you know, like it, it wouldn't cause that much lasting damage. [00:35:34] Cause it's not like I'm on some teaser rate. [00:35:36] It's not like I've got a great deal as it is. [00:35:38] So I let them do it. [00:35:39] And three days later, I had low expectations, right? [00:35:42] Cause you go on Reddit, speaking of Reddit, you go on and you, you search other people's [00:35:46] experiences and people will say, oh yeah, well like the, you know, I, some of them are [00:35:52] pretty hyperbolic. [00:35:53] It's like, you know, like they, they changed my plan to this and now I'm stuck with this, [00:35:57] you know, TV subscription for the next four years. [00:35:59] And then they charged me a thousand dollars in imagined savings that never materialized. [00:36:03] I'm like, shit. [00:36:04] All right. [00:36:04] Well, that's, that's not good. [00:36:06] But I, I gave them a shot. [00:36:08] They came back three days later and they said, congratulations. [00:36:12] We saved you $859. [00:36:14] I was like, what the, excuse me over the next 12 months. [00:36:18] And it turned out that they got me from $142, $145 down to 70 flat. [00:36:25] You multiply that by 12 and then indeed comes out to eight something. [00:36:28] And I was like, damn. [00:36:29] All right. [00:36:30] And so I've been, I've been looking for the other shoe to drop like ever since, like something [00:36:36] is fishy here. [00:36:37] Like I, they didn't sign me up for other services. [00:36:39] I did receive, I'm looking over at it now. [00:36:43] I did receive a relatively large box that has a, you know, one of those wifi modem router [00:36:50] combo units in it. [00:36:51] That was partly like apparently part of the deal. [00:36:54] I don't know if they canceled my service and then in one fell swoop also signed me up for [00:36:58] service. [00:36:58] But now I've got this gigantic fucking wifi thing that wouldn't even fit in my patch box [00:37:02] if I wanted it, which I don't. [00:37:04] So I'm, I'm, I'm currently in this ether of like, well, if my modem that I rent is still [00:37:11] going to work, I rent for $0. [00:37:14] It's one nice thing about spectrum. [00:37:15] If my modem that I rent is still going to work, uh, maybe I can just keep this wifi thing in [00:37:20] the box and not call anyone. [00:37:22] And maybe everything will keep working and I'll pay the $70 a month, or maybe I should send [00:37:27] the other one back, but then that might trigger some other thing. [00:37:30] Right. [00:37:30] I, so look like, do I recommend the service? [00:37:36] I don't really, I don't, we'll see. [00:37:38] Right. [00:37:39] Like call me in a year. [00:37:40] I should set a reminder. [00:37:41] Oh, I'm sure if something bad happens, I'll, I'll be right on the airwaves screaming about [00:37:47] it. [00:37:47] Like I, like I do, but even after this experience, saving me a lot of money, like what I trust [00:37:53] them with my T-Mobile account, right. [00:37:54] Where I have been grandfathered in on what was called the one choice plus plan in 2014 [00:38:01] or whatever. [00:38:02] And it's genuine, honest to God, unlimited data without any real throttling. [00:38:08] As far as I can tell, until you get to some absurdly high number where you can watch your [00:38:12] videos in HD on your, you know, like, like it's, it's, it's a good one. [00:38:16] It's better than their magenta crap. [00:38:18] Um, and a lower price than their magenta max thing. [00:38:21] Well, we got three lines. [00:38:22] You got, you know, the watches and I would love to pay less for that, but I just don't [00:38:27] try like you, you, you fill out the rocket money form, uh, with the, uh, the, the, it wants [00:38:34] your T-Mobile, like login information. [00:38:36] And that's, that was a bridge too far for me. [00:38:40] I got there and I was like, you know, I could just imagine this going poorly. [00:38:44] You know, these plans are so complicated and feels like even when I call T-Mobile and I [00:38:48] ask, Hey, how's the weather? [00:38:49] Like they click a button and it fucks up my shit for two weeks. [00:38:52] So I'm, I'm, I'm good. [00:38:55] I can probably afford a cell phone bill. [00:38:57] Uh, I just, I just would prefer not to have to pay it. [00:39:01] Only one other life item in the last week, I was given a special opportunity. [00:39:11] Um, I've talked about massages a couple of times on this program and the, uh, I mentioned, [00:39:15] uh, the one I went, uh, the one I had most recently in a previous episode, I, I, I was, I was wrapping [00:39:29] up my massage with a human like you do. [00:39:31] And the human said, have you, have you tried our robot massage? [00:39:36] And, uh, I didn't know how to take that. [00:39:38] And I said, I, I've heard of it. [00:39:41] I know Becky tried it. [00:39:43] If you check Becky's, um, Becky Graham, you'll see, uh, there's a video of her, uh, getting [00:39:48] felt up by a robot. [00:39:50] Uh, I forget the name of the company, but it's, it's, uh, it's like a robot that tries to simulate [00:39:59] the experience of a human massaging you. [00:40:02] So it's, uh, you're on a bed, you're face down. [00:40:06] It's, uh, got arms that kind of go back and forth, uh, on a track and they, they push and [00:40:13] whatnot. [00:40:13] And it kind of reminds me of the white birthing robot from star Wars episode three at the end [00:40:21] when, when Luke and Leah are being born, it does everything short of make the cooing [00:40:26] sounds to get the babies to calm down. [00:40:28] You know, like I, you do have a tablet and you can, you can pick out these pre-baked Spotify [00:40:34] playlists while it's pushing on you. [00:40:36] Anyway, all that to say, I signed up, um, mostly cause it was free. [00:40:41] So I had a 30 minute trial and, uh, the fact is trying to imitate humans was really interesting [00:40:49] to me because I had just spent a month in Japan, uh, getting, uh, what'd you call it? [00:40:54] Uh, massage chairs, our hotel chain that we stay at has always has massage chairs and even [00:41:01] bad massage chairs in Japan are pretty intense. [00:41:03] Uh, uh, but, but good ones are just like, you know, you go in there and it's just like, [00:41:09] I'm sure there's been, you've probably seen a horror movie image, right? [00:41:13] Where it's like, you sit in a chair and then like 25 hands grab all the parts of your body [00:41:18] simultaneously and that is meant to be horrific. [00:41:20] But if those hands, if there was some nice music playing and it was illuminated and those [00:41:25] hands were massaging you simultaneously all over your body, maybe it would be pretty, pretty [00:41:29] great. [00:41:29] And so that's what a Japanese massage chair is like. [00:41:33] Cause they, they don't have this arbitrary conceit that a massage must happen in a format [00:41:39] that resembles how it would happen if a single human on a bed surface was rubbing your tiddly [00:41:45] bits, which is what this robot is. [00:41:49] Right. [00:41:49] And so it's trying to think of another analog, right? [00:41:55] Like where we, we kind of retain the artifice of the way that it used to be before we automated [00:42:00] it. [00:42:00] And, and in some, sometimes we do that to keep people being comfortable like that rich [00:42:05] Corinthian leather. [00:42:06] It's like, we wanted to look like a traditional calendar. [00:42:08] So people know what they're looking at instead of just a bunch of boxes. [00:42:11] It's like, Oh yeah, this looks like a placemat style calendar that I would have had on my desk. [00:42:15] And then eventually that ages out. [00:42:16] And the younger people are like, I've never seen a calendar on a desk, even though my dad [00:42:20] grew up with one, you know? [00:42:24] So maybe that's it, right? [00:42:25] Like, like sometimes that's why we would have a robo massage that like, you know, pressures [00:42:31] and needs you, you know, kind of with just the two arms up and down in particular points, [00:42:35] sometimes at the same time, sometimes just one arm, you know, it's, it's, it's less efficient [00:42:41] is my immediate frustration. [00:42:43] Cause it's like, you could have 45 fucking arms going to town all over my body and I'd [00:42:49] get way more work done in 30 minutes. [00:42:52] Right. [00:42:52] Cause I'm just trying to min max my existence, but instead by, by, by, by imitating a human [00:42:59] massage, like nothing is really gained because I can't see it. [00:43:03] I'm facedown. [00:43:04] I'm looking at a silly tablet and watching imagery, imagery of forests and, and, and ocean waves [00:43:10] and whatnot, and I'm kind of getting a, you can look at a weird overhead view of what [00:43:14] your body is looking at, looking like right then, you know, like it scans your body and [00:43:19] then has like a little illustration of like, here's where I'm pushing you. [00:43:21] Here I go. [00:43:22] It's, it seems more to me like they designed this, you look at this unit and it's just like, [00:43:31] this has got to cost at least 15 grand. [00:43:34] This is an expensive, complicated piece of equipment. [00:43:38] It feels like a lack of imagination, uh, to, to somebody had the idea, let's take human [00:43:47] masseuses out of the equation and just make a robo masseuse thing that we could put in spas [00:43:53] when, uh, you'd actually have a better experience. [00:43:56] It would be cheaper. [00:43:57] And there's like more prior art at Panasonic or these other companies in Japan. [00:44:01] If you just made a, you know, massage chair, but that would be boring, I guess. [00:44:08] Uh, and massage chairs, like you, you hear the word massage chair right now as you're listening. [00:44:13] And if you haven't had like a real one, you know, at a Japanese Denki-yasan on the third [00:44:17] floor, where all the salary men on their way home tell their wives, oh, I got a, I got a big meeting [00:44:24] with the boss and then they go to, they go to Yamada Denki or they go to Yodabashi camera. [00:44:28] And then they just, you know, they take their briefcase and they set it down next to one of the [00:44:33] trial units of the massage chair. [00:44:34] And then they, they, they, they, they go into this little like sensory deprivation pod and [00:44:39] they get all their bits smushed simultaneously and they got a remote control and they can [00:44:45] say, just do it hard. [00:44:46] And then they can forget their worries for, for 15 minutes until, uh, one of the staff has [00:44:52] to remind them that, uh, they don't live there and that they have to go home now. [00:44:56] If you haven't had that experience, uh, you probably, when you hear a massage chair, think [00:45:02] of like those $2, you know, leather chairs that are, you know, just like our just normal [00:45:08] fucking chairs that may be vibrate, like the vibrating bed equivalent that you see at an [00:45:12] airport. [00:45:12] Um, this is not what I'm talking about. [00:45:15] So get your head out of there and, and go Google, you know, for high end Japanese massage [00:45:22] chair, and you might get some idea. [00:45:24] Uh, also I, uh, in the course of a 30 minute massage, I encountered so many fucking Android [00:45:32] tablet bugs. [00:45:33] I, I didn't, I gave them a lot of feedback cause they, this is sort of a trial that they're [00:45:37] doing. [00:45:37] They wanted to want to know how, what I thought. [00:45:40] And I gave them a lot of this perspective and feedback about like, well, you know, this [00:45:44] skeuomorphic design, yada, yada. [00:45:45] But I didn't even touch any of the software stuff. [00:45:49] Cause like there's an absolutely nothing that they're going to be able to do with that much [00:45:52] less like they won't even be able to communicate this back to the company in a way that's helpful, [00:45:55] but it was, you know, it would freeze or the display would become non-responsive. [00:46:01] One time I had the music just turn itself all the way up. [00:46:05] The, um, the, so many things about this design are meant to make you feel comfortable are [00:46:13] meant to make you feel safe. [00:46:14] Like if, if you, it moves at all, or if it detects anything is off at all, it basically [00:46:20] like will, will disengage entirely and reposition itself. [00:46:23] And then you have to actively resume the massage. [00:46:26] And then it's got to put the little flappy doos back over you. [00:46:30] Like it's really worried about people flipping out about this robot pressing up against them. [00:46:36] And it extends to, to like, you know, you pick your firmness, like light, medium firm. [00:46:41] And I clicked firm. [00:46:42] And then there, you could see there was like a little like pressure bar on the right. [00:46:47] And that even though I'd clicked the firm preset, I wasn't at a hundred percent pressure. [00:46:52] And I was like, well, that, that won't do. [00:46:54] And so I jacked it up to a hundred percent right out of the gate. [00:46:56] And the whole time, 30 minutes, like you could, uh, [00:46:59] Hmm. [00:47:01] It, I knew that a massage was happening. [00:47:05] Like I knew when contact was being made, but like, it was not a massage. [00:47:08] It was, it was somebody kind of like, like, like back rub would be generous. [00:47:14] It was like somebody like took an open palm hand and just pressed it. [00:47:18] Just, just, just an obnoxiously against different parts of my body and no firmness beyond that. [00:47:26] So you got a robo massage. [00:47:29] It's limited in what it can do. [00:47:33] Cause it's trying to imitate a human. [00:47:34] It's very worried about liability, which is why I imagine the max firmness is light pressure. [00:47:39] Uh, and it's fussy and it's buggy. [00:47:42] And of course it can only do very limited regions of the body. [00:47:45] Like if I was a massage therapist, I'd be like, Hey, sweet. [00:47:49] You know, I'm going to keep having a job longer than all these programmer juckle fucks. [00:47:52] You're going to get replaced by a Claude and open AI. [00:47:56] So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm confident that a massage therapist is going to be a, a lucrative, you [00:48:03] know, going concern as a career for a little while programming. [00:48:08] I'm not so sure of, but most of us listening have already made our choice, whether we're [00:48:14] going to be massage therapists or programmers. [00:48:16] So we're just going to have to see how this, how this plays out. [00:48:19] All right. [00:48:20] Well, that's all, that's everything going on in my life. [00:48:23] So let's, uh, well, let's follow up on stuff that had been going on in my life and is now [00:48:30] continuing or is once again, I started to realize that there's a, there's a certain theme to this [00:48:37] show. [00:48:37] Hmm. [00:48:38] All right. [00:48:46] There's basically two major areas of follow-up today. [00:48:51] Um, but somehow the two of them take up 11 bullet points in my notes. [00:48:59] So I'll try to be expeditious. [00:49:02] The first is I bought a, uh, M4 pro MacBook pro, I guess an Apple nomenclature, a MacBook pro [00:49:13] left parentheses, 2024, right parentheses with M4 pro. [00:49:19] I think is probably maybe the 2024 is at the end. [00:49:22] Maybe they don't put the date now that they have the chip name. [00:49:25] In any case, I needed a computer that was built for Apple intelligence, which is how they also, [00:49:32] they crammed that in the fucking name. [00:49:34] Um, and like the, every subheader says Apple intelligence on it, which, you know, I mean, [00:49:40] if you're, if you're a marketing dude, it's the thing that, you know, like you gotta, every [00:49:48] year is a struggle to goose people into, to buying computers. [00:49:51] And, uh, it's been a while since they've had anything new to say that your computer can do. [00:49:56] So it makes sense, but come on. [00:49:59] It can't even make Genmoji yet. [00:50:02] Uh, just if you've, if you've downloaded it, used 18.2 iOS or iPadOS, uh, go turn on the, [00:50:13] um, you know, the AI feature, if it's available in your region and language, and then you open [00:50:19] the image playground app and you click through there and let it download all of the image [00:50:24] playground shit, uh, in particular, the image playground itself, where you can take a person [00:50:30] and a place and kind of like, you know, create sort of a, uh, a witch's brew of bad imagery [00:50:35] and then, and then have a keep swiping to the right as, as they just all look bad that I have [00:50:43] no, no need for, but Genmoji, or at least the promise of Genmoji, I like quite a lot. [00:50:49] I enjoy, you know, um, typing in little like name, like, so we were at the parks, uh, with [00:50:57] our friends last week and it was a Jollywood Knights event, which is also Gatsby themed. [00:51:06] There's a reason why ordering 1920s era costumes on Amazon in Orlando was like not an overnight. [00:51:13] It was like a two, three day leg because this, this Jollywood Knights 1920s era themed, uh, [00:51:21] ticketed event at Hollywood studios has been going on. And it was one of those nights. And so some [00:51:26] flapper lady in line, she had a purse that had a phone handle on it. And her husband, who now that [00:51:34] I think back on this was dressed very similarly to how I dressed myself last night. So something tells [00:51:39] me he was sort of a long for the ride in this, she picked up the phone handle off of her purse and [00:51:46] handed it to Becky. And then he, you could sort of see him on the phone being a bad ventriloquist [00:51:53] and talking to her on the phone. So like his cell phone was somehow communicating to the purse phone. [00:51:59] It was very, it reminded me of get smart, you know, like that spy TV show from the sixties that was on [00:52:05] Nick at night in the eighties or nineties when I would have watched it. Uh, of course it didn't [00:52:10] work. And then we were just in line and it was like, sorry, we're in line. It didn't work. And then, [00:52:14] and then of course the way that lines work, right. As you turn left, turn right. And now it's up, [00:52:18] here's the same people again. And so they're like, all right, try again. So she picks up the purse [00:52:23] phone and here's the guy talk. And she's like, yes, this is indeed a telephone. That is a purse. [00:52:28] My reaction, my contribution to this experience was to try to generate a Genmoji for the group [00:52:35] that I was with. That was like purse phone. And, uh, wouldn't you know it, uh, it struggled to like, [00:52:43] I was like purse with a phone handle on top. And it was, it gave me like one with like a, [00:52:49] like a locker combination lock instead of a rotary dial in the middle. It was all, it was not, [00:52:54] not good. And, and I think like a lot of these Genmoji, in addition to being bad and not good, [00:53:01] they are when they, there's, they have to be so detailed because usually it's people mashing up [00:53:07] different concepts. They have to be so detailed that when in line with texts, you have to squint [00:53:12] and you can barely see what they are. And then if they're as a tap back, you have no hope of knowing [00:53:16] what they are. Like if it's of a person, for example, like it's, you're going to get like 80% shirt [00:53:21] and then like 10% head. So you're not going to be able to tell who's what. Uh, so those need work [00:53:27] and no one wants my Genmoji. My, my brother has formally requested. I stopped sending them and, [00:53:32] uh, I will, I will take that request under advisement. Anyway, uh, bought a MacBook pro. Um, [00:53:42] Oh, I've got a, I've got a parenthetical as a C notes. All right, well, here's eight more bullet [00:53:50] points. I'm going to rattle through these. So Becky, actually, it was her idea. She wanted to [00:53:54] get me this. We were in Japan. She's like, Hey, you know, I heard you talking about the nanotexture [00:53:57] display. And like, of course, you know, the, the, the brighter screen and us being in Orlando, [00:54:01] you never use a computer outside or out of the house. So she wanted to buy it. And she said, [00:54:06] it was just really complicated. I didn't want to fuck up. I didn't want to get you the wrong set of [00:54:09] options. I asked Aaron and Aaron didn't know either. He said he hadn't really been on top of it. [00:54:16] Uh, and I was like, honey, that's so I didn't say like, bless your heart. I, it was a such a sweet [00:54:23] gesture. And it is true that I've been curious about it. Um, but I didn't feel like, uh, I had [00:54:30] to get one right this minute. Uh, and, and honestly, the, the, the 14 inch MacBook pro is still too heavy. [00:54:36] I, I, I, I lifted tonal my, my weightlifting robot, uh, reported in my tonal wrapped because [00:54:46] everything has to do a goddamn wrapped dingus to try to share in social media as if like, you know, [00:54:52] one assumes that all these wrapped posts just go to the goddamn bottom of every algorithm because [00:54:57] they're all the same. But in any case, it showed me a little wrapped video and it said, I wait, [00:55:02] I, I lifted one and a half million pounds last year or over the course of 2024. And I was like, [00:55:07] that's a lot of weight that I lifted. I, yesterday I did the equivalent of like, you know, 250, [00:55:12] 275 pound deadlift barbell deadlift. And that was hard, but not too hard. It's the max weight that, [00:55:20] that tonal can do. Um, I, I, I, I like to think I'm pretty strong now. Uh, that four pound fucking [00:55:31] MacBook pro is backbreakingly heavy, no matter where I am, I'll pick it up and like, that is denser than [00:55:40] it looks. It's a, it's like when you pick up a baby, that's like a little bit too dense, you know, [00:55:46] and you're just like, Oh wow. I was expecting this to be more fun. This is just going to give [00:55:51] me pelvic floor problems. If I do this for more than exactly 30 seconds and then hand it back to [00:55:57] its mother who surely has pelvic floor issues. Um, I don't want to be carrying around this MacBook pro. [00:56:05] I don't want to carry it with my arms. I don't want to carry it in a bag. I don't want to carry it [00:56:09] into the car. I don't want to carry it, you know, uh, in a Starbucks. I want to hire a Porter to [00:56:16] bring it around to me, you know, from place to place. Maybe, maybe they could also saddle up and [00:56:23] have a, uh, vision pro. So that's what I really want. Uh, at least until, and unless Apple releases [00:56:30] the 12 inch MacBook pro, uh, that we were promised in our early years. [00:56:34] Anyway, when Becky said that it was hard to configure and figure out what she'd want to order [00:56:43] or what I would want her to order. And as a result would have made a pretty lousy gift because [00:56:49] the likelihood of her getting it right. Where if you look at the number of configurations for these [00:56:53] seeing this thing, like astronomically small, I actually spent, I sat down, I look, I, I said, [00:57:01] I didn't need the thing. And then I come home and then within a day and a half, uh, my MacBook air is [00:57:07] crying because it's out of storage to the point where like I composed an email and I hit send on the email [00:57:12] and then Apple mail reported, yo, we just barfed on all this and just deleted all your shit. Cause we [00:57:17] ran out of disk space, no warning. And in modern day Mac OS, you don't get to know how much disk space [00:57:23] you have because all of it is like optimized storage. So like whether it's your iCloud drive [00:57:29] or it's your Apple photos, once the system is under any sort of, um, storage stress, it'll, [00:57:35] it's supposed to detect that and start deleting shit. Your phone does this too. So sometimes like [00:57:41] you're like, like I was importing a bunch of raw images on the phone and it said, Oh, you're out of [00:57:45] storage. And then I knew, because I know how it works under the hood, even though it exposes zero [00:57:49] controls or visibility as to what is going the fuck on. I knew that when it ran out of storage, [00:57:54] the right solution was sit and wait for 30 seconds while it deletes shit in the background and then [00:57:59] just hit import again. Right. Well, I, that didn't work in this case. Like I actually went and deleted [00:58:05] like a hundred gigabytes of garbage. It's a small SSD. It's a 512 gigabyte MacBook air. I deleted all this [00:58:11] stuff, but, um, from my iCloud drive on another computer, because this one was finder was completely [00:58:17] unresponsive. Uh, and it never got better because it had suspended all iCloud drive syncing as a, [00:58:24] probably like some sort of like memory safeguard or storage safeguard to like make sure I didn't, [00:58:27] it didn't fuck up anything in the cloud. And so like even going, I'm not going to, [00:58:33] most of that storage was in my iCloud drive, which is how it got full while I was overseas. [00:58:38] And when I came back, I, I didn't have like, I could, I could have gone through and like run [00:58:47] RM dash RF from the terminal and deleted stuff from the iCloud drive to like as a, as an emergency break, [00:58:52] like get, get this SSD empty enough that the operating system can run and then figure it out. [00:59:00] But then of course it would have synced all of those deletions up to the cloud and deleted the [00:59:03] same things off of my other computers. So this is a tractable problem. And I, I, I ultimately did solve [00:59:10] it, but I, I realize now why Apple markets so much of its pro devices to photos and video people, [00:59:20] because photos and videos take up a shit ton of space. Uh, they have different performance [00:59:26] characteristics than programming and, and the, their needs in many ways are higher than what you need. [00:59:33] If you're just writing Ruby code, right? Uh, it just so happens that Swift, the programming language [00:59:38] that they wrote is also like, we'll, we'll take advantage of all of these cores during compilation [00:59:42] in a way that like a lot of local development in other languages won't. [00:59:45] But in my last year of doing a lot more video work, doing a lot more audio work, I can definitely [00:59:52] understand now like, Oh yeah, like the, the MacBook air actually is inappropriate for a lot of the [00:59:57] workflows of the things that I do. So that experience, I came to Becky and I was like, look, I know I said [01:00:05] I didn't need this, but I think I might need this. Um, where need is in very, you know, very gentle [01:00:12] text. It's, it's a thin font variant to say, I need this. What I mean to say is like, I, it would save [01:00:19] me a lot of time and stress and headache and, uh, uh, rework to have a better computer, a more [01:00:26] capacious computer. And of course you can't upgrade the storage and your existing max. So here we are. [01:00:32] Um, but anyway, I was in the configurator for the new MacBook pro. And the first decision you got to [01:00:36] make is do I want a regular M4 chip, which I did not, or one of the pro ones, which is a, you know, [01:00:43] 12 or 14 core. I want to say a chip, uh, which is a huge upgrade over the M3 pro the M3 pro had a way [01:00:53] more efficiency cores and the M4 pro has more performance score. So it's like a, it's doing [01:00:57] much better in synthetic benchmarking that that's impressive. It's a big year over year change or the [01:01:02] M4 max, which is, you know, uh, an incremental improvement over the M3 max, but to the extent [01:01:10] that it's better than the pro it's like, you know, got another meat and quote unquote media [01:01:14] e

What can we do to ensure next year's growing season is the best yet? With the frenzy of the growing season now behind us, lost to the memory of warm, summer days and bountiful harvests, and while our vegetable patches and flower beds lay bare, ecologist and botanist Becky Searle shares advice and tips for how to care for our soil over the winter months. Do you have a gardening question you'd like Alan Titchmarsh's help with? Submit your question in the comments below or go to www.gardenersworld.com/podcast/questions/ Alan will answer a selection in the Ask Alan podcast series from BBC Gardeners' World Magazine in February and March. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

DAVE SEARLE: Retired Editor-in-Chief of Motorcycle Consumer News Dave Searle reminisces about the odyssey that eventually led to his role as a highly regarded journalist for the motorcycle enthusiast press back in the glory days of print publications. His history as a self-taught mechanic, educator, writer, photographer, relentless researcher—and, of course, passionate motorcyclist—made him uniquely qualified to be MCN's longest-running leader. Send your questions to us via email: podcast@bmwmoa.org. The Ride Inside with Mark Barnes is brought to you by the BMW MOA Foundation and is on the web at BMWOwnersNews.com.

Welcome back to the Pick and Go podcast. Paul is joined by Searle and Piri, who is once again a little late to the party. Today we are talking about the All Blacks eligibility rules, should they be changed? Are the rules hurting the All Blacks or protecting the domestic game? We breakdown the All Blacks vs Italy test match and review Razor's first year in charge of the All Blacks. Who rates this year as a success and who isn't so sure. Now the big award for the season, we are naming our All Black of the year, do we have agreement amongst the panel?

The humble potato: is it a vegetable or a grain? Coming from a family that has farmed America's favorite vegetable (yes, we'll refer to the potato as such), Mitchell Searle offers a unique perspective on the cultivation, harvesting, and sustainability of this crop.   While Searle expresses concern about what he perceives as the growing chasm between the farm and the consumer, he emphasizes that many of the misconceptions surrounding potato farming are largely unfounded.  “Sustainability is my number one focus every day,” says Searle. “Is my workload sustainable? Are my tillage practices sustainable? Is my business structure sustainable to be passed on to the next generation? Everything boils down to sustainability. His family has farmed for over 100 years, so they should know.  Listen in as Searle discusses biological vs. chemical practices, how interest groups shape policy, and his very down-to-earth potato consumption preferences. Visit potatoesusa.com for more or connect with Mitchell Searle on LinkedIn.

Welcome back to the Pick and Go podcast. Paul is joined by Piri and Searle to look at the weekend's big rugby action. The All Blacks chucked off the underdog name and defeated the Irish in a heated affair. Were the media and the bookies wrong to have labeled the ABs underdogs in the first place. Are we starting to see a new All Blacks side emerge under Razor's management? Also, with the rivalry continuing off the field, is this what rugby needs to get bums in seats. With Australia taking out England, are the Wallabies back in terms of a serious rugby threat? The panel look ahead to France and what is unique about playing the French that makes them such a dangerous team to play.

Join us this Sunday to discuss the final chapter in the book, Chapter 12: Living Maturely.

In this conversation, Phil and Dave Searle explore the journey of leaving England for a life in the mountains, the challenges and rewards of building a career in outdoor guiding, and the importance of physicality in this demanding profession. They discuss the perceptions of outdoor professionals, the generational differences in outdoor education, and the balance between teaching and learning. The conversation also delves into critical discussions about knot tying, the importance of dressing knots, and the mental health challenges faced by professionals in the industry. Throughout, they emphasize the need for open communication, continuous learning, and the importance of community in the outdoor world.   Physical activity is essential for outdoor professionals. Guides must balance work and personal well-being. Teaching requires understanding the learner's perspective. Knot tying is a critical skill that requires attention to detail. The outdoor industry is evolving with new generations. Mental health is an important topic in outdoor professions. Community support is vital for outdoor professionals. Continuous learning is key to effective teaching. Open conversations can bridge generational gaps in knowledge. Dave's socials; Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davejsearle/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/DaveSearle Oak App - https://getoak.app/ Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com Connect with Phil; Email - podcast@high5adventure.org Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/verticalplaypen/  

Welcome back to the Pick and Go podcast! What a NPC final.100 minutes of action that was as good of an advertisement for the game as you could hope for. Piri, Paul and Searle will be breaking down all the key moments from Wellington's win.They'll also be looking at better ways to decide the outcome of drawn matches. Is the team with the most tries the best tiebreaker or should rugby take inspiration from soccer?Of course, the other big event coming up is the All Blacks facing England. This is still an All Blacks team that is in transition so do any of our panel think England have a chance against this unsettled ABs side?

Joining Iain Dale on Cross Question this evening are chair of the Labour Women's Network nd former MP Thangam Debbonaire, Conservative MP and shadow business minister Jerome Mayhew, Liberal Democrat MP Jess Brown-Fuller and political commentator and former head of BBC Westminster Katy Searle.

Welcome back to the Pick and Go podcast. Paul is joined by Searle and Piri Weepu and they preview the upcoming game against Japan. Which players need to put in a solid performance to cement their place in the team and what position has the most competition for places? Of course, we can't not talk about the amazing weekend of sport where Kiwis took out the Women's T20 World Cup, America's Cup and had test match victories. But we get back to rugby by breaking down the NPC Semi-Finals and discussing who will win the NPC.

Welcome back to the Pick and Go podcast. Paul is joined by Searle and Piri Weepu and they are looking at changing the rules of Rugby Union. Should there be more points for kicking drop goals from further distances or would that slow down the game too much, or would a points increase actual give appropriate value to a very difficult skill? The NPC reaches the Semi-Final stage and the group have a number of hunches about who will make it through and who'll go on to win the entire competition. Even Piri gives a hunch after a long self-imposed hiatus. We start looking ahead to the Northern Tour and what effect it could have on the NPC going forward

In this episode of Building Texas Business, I discuss John Marvin's transformative leadership journey as CEO and President of Texas State Optical (TSO). Founded in 1936 by the Rogers brothers, TSO evolved into a franchise operation spearheaded by John starting in the 1990s. Hear John's compelling account of reviving the brand, establishing the franchise association, and guiding the innovative physician-owned business model that has empowered young optometrists for decades. With the evolving eyewear landscape, our conversation analyzes consumer behavior shifts and their implications for strategic competition amid growing online retailers. We also explore the importance of supporting TSO's physician member network through mentorship and partnerships, especially given industry consolidation challenges. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS John D Marvin shares the history of Texas State Optical (TSO), founded by the Rogers brothers in 1936, and its growth into a franchise operation. We discuss how John Marvin revitalized TSO in the 1990s and his journey to becoming the president of the company in 2001. The episode explores the challenges and strategies involved in competing with online retailers in the eyewear industry, emphasizing the importance of convenience and well-stocked dispensaries. John describes the shift in optometry ownership trends, with fewer young optometrists interested in private practice, paralleling broader healthcare industry trends. We examine the strategic importance of building a physician member network to support optometrists and the criteria for network inclusion. The episode delves into leadership principles inspired by John C. Maxwell, highlighting the role of influence, trust, and accountability in effective leadership. John reflects on the transformative impact of setbacks, such as being fired, and how these experiences shape one's leadership journey. We explore the importance of forming strategic vendor partnerships and the role of mutual accountability in maintaining long-lasting business relationships. John emphasizes the need to adapt to industry shifts, including the rise of artificial intelligence, while fostering an innovative mindset among optometrists. The episode concludes with a discussion on the significance of understanding and meeting customer needs through effective consumer research, as a universal business strategy. LINKSShow Notes Previous Episodes About BoyarMiller About Texas State Optical GUESTS John D MarvinAbout John TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Chris: In this episode you will meet John Marvin, ceo and President of Texas State Optical. John shares his views on how the fundamentals of leadership boil down to influencing and how having mutual accountability in your business relationships create win situations. John, I want to thank you for taking the time to join me today. It's really been a pleasure to get to know you before we got started here. John: Well, Chris, I appreciate the opportunity to sit down. I always love talking about business. Chris: Well, that's good, that's what we're going to do. So you're the CEO and president of Texas State Optical, or most people know it as TSO. That's right. Tell us a little more detail about what is the company, what does it do and what is it really known for in the market. John: Okay Well, texas State Optical was founded in 1936 by four brothers the Rogers brothers, in Beaumont, texas, and anybody who's been to Beaumont or familiar with Beaumont knows of the impact those four brothers had on that community and then in turn throughout Texas. Two of the brothers were optometrists and they opened pretty traditional optometry practice. And if you'll think about what else was going on in 1936 in Beaumont, it was the oil boom that was just blowing up, and so the one that originally came to Texas from Chicago all four of them were from Chicago called back home and said boys, you need to move down here. We got a big opportunity and they did, and consequently, over the next several years they built a large retail optical chain they called Texas State Optical, and one time in the early 60s it had reached over 300 locations. And one time in the early 60s it had reached over 300 locations and those were in New Mexico, oklahoma, arkansas, louisiana and Texas, and so that went on until, due to some legal issues with the state optometric group, who decided that they didn't want someone in the state running 300 locations, they passed some legislation that limited optometrists to only three locations and so they could subsequently, after a long legal battle had to sell off most of their property, but they kept the core of the business of the optical lab. They kept that and kind of a condition of buying. The practice was that you obligated yourself to continue to purchase items from them. But then in the late 60s the Rogers, having gone through this process of dissolving their ownership in it, decided to turn their attention towards real estate development and at one point they owned 25% of Caesars Palace in Vegas. They just got involved in other things and then consequently in the early 70s they sold the company to a large pharmaceutical company, gd Searle, who then subsequently sold the company in the early 80s to Pearl Vision. Most people are familiar with Pearl Vision, most people are familiar with ProVision and ran that until the late 80s when they sold it to a group of kind of investors who wanted to own it. They didn't really know how to run it than investors. So in I got involved in 1993 doing consumer research for the corporate office. My background at the time I had a company marketing management group and based here in Houston and it was a small marketing management and consumer research group and was doing work in other areas. But picked them up as a client and began to do a lot of consumer study for them and learned about the business. At that time it was somewhat distressed because of the leadership that had taken over from the Pearl Vision taken over from Pearl, and so there was a lot of unrest among the franchisees because at that time TSO was a franchise operation and so I helped them form a franchise association and then kind of on a part-time arrangement took on an executive director position within that while maintaining my consumer study and research stuff. And so that happened until the late nineties, when everyone was planning for the great millennium you know, the 2000 and Y2, right, right. And so we gathered everybody in my conference room over here and how, booty building, and down here in the galleria and they started you know, flip chart sheets, what do we want to accomplish? And blah, blah, blah, and and that the result of that was really, guys, you're not going to get any of this done unless you own it. And so we began to have some discussions about them buying the company, the, the franchisor, and that took about a year to negotiate, and during that process I was asked to come on as the new president and since and then we closed in June of 2001, and since that time I've been the acting and operational by president and CEO of the company, and one of the reasons that it appealed to me was it was the ultimate fixer-upper, because the company had really was kind of loosely held together but had an iconic brand, and so we started opening new locations with Young Optometrist and we're a brand license company. So we knew that the only way we could pick up a new customer, if you would be, if a young OD wanted to open their own practice and then we could help them do that. People that were established at the time and successful weren't interested in converting to a retail trade name, so we did. We opened up about 80 new locations and helped a lot of young ODs live a dream and had put together a whole turnkey system commercial realty contractors the whole nine yards. Chris: That's a fascinating history, you know, to kind of just see it grow so big in the beginning, get broken down and then almost come back together. Yeah with, I guess in 2001 you said, with these individual practice owners or franchisees becoming owners. John: That's, you know, kind of unique, especially for doctors yeah, it was a different approach to it, one of the reasons we can set it as a now. We never incorporated it as a cooperative, we incorporated it as for-profit. We simply chose to run it as a cooperative, which, by its nature of co-op, isn't intended to make money, right? So we could keep the services and the value of what we offer members very high because we priced it at a break-even point, and so it was very appealing to a lot of young ODs who needed that help without any experience knowing what to do. And, of course, we then had a retail trade name that had market appeal. So a lot of them benefited greatly by, as opposed, to, opening up under their own name and unknown in a community. Chris: Yeah, it gives it instant credibility with the brand name right. That's right. What are some of the things I guess that you know since that time in 2001, that you do and your team around you, to kind of help preserve that brand value, to make it marketable and enticing to these doctors. John: Well, part of it is the importance. An optometry practice as a small business has a very defined marketplace of about three radium miles Okay, so one. That's part of that is because there are so many options and the profession is a licensed profession and so there's a little bit of perception by consumers that it's a commodity. In other words, anybody who's got a license will be able to give you a good exam. Consumers at one time back in the 60s and 70s, thought mostly of wherever they got their exams. That's where they purchased their eyewear. Chris: Out of convenience, right Out of convenience. John: That's right. And in the 80s you had a much more proliferation of retail optical chains like LensCrafters and EyeMasters at the time and Pearl Vision, which were creating an awareness among consumers that you know what, I can get my exam in one location and I can buy my eyewear in another location, and so that added to that sense of commodity. And so what we've done is focus on a three mile marketplace. So instead of running one advertising campaign in Houston, we run 50 around each of our locations, and those are largely driven through community involvement, pay-per-click, you know, today pay-per-click In the beginning though, a lot of it was just getting to know your school nurse, getting to know the coaches in the league ball game, and so from a marketing strategy it was always hyper-local standpoint. And so if you go into some neighborhoods, everyone knows the TSO. If you go into an neighborhood where we have no location, maybe not so much, and that was done probably more just from a practical standpoint of cost than it was anything else, because you know Houston and Dallas. Where we're at in San Antonio, they're very expensive media markets and so if you've only got, you know, 20 locations in the DFW market to go in and try to buy television, advertising or something more traditional is prohibited, and so it makes a lot more sense because that's where people live and work. People ask me sometimes how do you go about picking your locations, your real estate stuff? And I said we tend to let Kroger and HEB do that for us. So, wherever they're at, we want to be close because that's a neighborhood. Chris: That's right. You figured they thought there were enough households to support a grocery store. So I like that, you know, uh, you know. There's a lesson there, though, for a business owner, an entrepreneur, in that you don't necessarily have to do all your own organic research if you don't know, aware what's going on, you can, you know, let someone else do some of that and just make sure that their end users look like yours, and that's right. John: They do a tremendous job, both of those companies, at understanding the market before they ever buy land or pour concrete. I'd hate to insult them by not taking advantage of all that good work they do. Chris: They're genius right, they're genius, that's right. You just mentioned, you said 30 different or 50 different marketing campaigns in Houston alone. I mean, how do you go about figuring out you know the right message for the right place? That must take a lot of work. John: Well, not so much I mean because the message in Sugar Land is the same as the message in the Woodlands. I mean people. While we, as as in our profession, try to complicate this, it's pretty simple from a consumer standpoint. They're looking for a place where they can get their eyes checked and buy a pair of glasses. But probably two-thirds of all of our revenue today come from a third-party payer. So that changes kind of the basic consumer behavior dynamic. But by putting out a message that really is focused on that group of people in terms of maximizing the value of those coverage benefits, that becomes real consistent and then it's a matter of just being louder than anybody else. Chris: Sure, while we're on the subject of that consumer and consumer behavior, what are some of the things that you have done over the last 10, 15 years to either combat the online competition, as you mentioned, because people get their eyes examined and they either go online or do something. How are you managing that and what are some of the strategies you found to be successful? John: Well, first of all, consumers are driven, and I think this may be generally true, but certainly our consumers are driven with the priority on convenience, and one of the reasons the online marketing purchase of eyewear is so appealing is its convenience, and oftentimes it's not a price issue as much as it is a convenience issue and assortment and selection. So one of the things that we focus on is to make sure that our retail dispensary that's what we call the retail store aspect of a practice is well inventoried with product and assortment price points, and then the ultimate differentiation is customer service and knowledgeable people, and so if you have selection pricing and knowledgeable people, it's a home run and you don't have to worry about it, because if you can make it convenient for them, then they're not tempted to go online. And because there's a lot of I don't know if you've ever bought a pair of shoes online, but all you need to do is have one bad experience with that and have to turn around, send them back and so forth and so on that people would really prefer to get it locally, where I got my, where they received their exam, and it's kind of hours to lose. So we try to make sure we don't give them a reason to leave. Chris: Yeah Well, it's an interesting analogy with the shoes, because I can relate to that and see that people like to try on shoes but also glasses right. John: What are these going to look? Chris: like, and if you're at a store with a good selection, it's all right there as opposed to ordering one or two online and knowing you're going to be returning something. Advert Hello friends, this is Chris Hanslick, your Building Texas business host. Did you know that Boyer Miller, the producer of this podcast, is a business law firm that works with entrepreneurs, corporations and business leaders? Our team of attorneys serve as strategic partners to businesses by providing legal guidance to organizations of all sizes. Get to know the firm at BoyerMillercom, and thanks for listening to the show. That's right, yes, well, that's it. So let's shift now kind of to this physician member network. What do you look for, if anything, as far as qualifying people to come into the brand, and then how do you help, kind of manage and support once they're in the network, if you will, to make sure that you're doing all you can to help them be successful? John: It's an interesting change we're seeing right now, especially in the last five to 10 years, and that is, the number of young optometrists who have an interest in owning their own practice is going away. Chris: It's really an interesting thing. John: One. It's very similar to what's going on in healthcare in general. You know, I was just talking to some people last week and I said you know when was the last time I asked them? I said do you have children? Yes, do you have a pediatrician? Yes, is that pediatrician private practice? Chris: No. John: It's owned by some big organization like Texas Children's, and what you're seeing in healthcare delivery at the provider level is a consolidation of these organizations and the disappearing of private practice, and we're seeing that now in optometry. And another big dynamic is 85% of all optometry graduates today are female, and in the 80s that number was just the opposite. It was very unusual in the 80s and early 90s to see women in optometry school. I mean they certainly didn't represent the majority. And so with that comes different priorities of practice. You know you don't have the hard-charging young guy who wants to go into small-town Texas and really build up a big practice or even a metro area. You have people that are much more interested in part-time, that I want to be able to step aside, raise my family, then maybe come back later, and so there's a whole different culture among the providers now coming in. So our organization as a business model relies on young optometrists wanting to own their own practice, and if that category is declining we've got to come up with some other plan here to maintain Sure. So one the opportunities we have are less. The vetting process is largely a discussion with very successful people. Our board of directors consists of nine doctors and three outside directors, but the nine doctors are all very successful. And so a young person does approach me and we talk, I want them to speak to one of our successful guys, and then their job is to kind of assess and come back to me and say, John, I don't know if she's ready, I don't know if he can do this, or I think this is a home run, let's go. And with their input and my discussion I've been doing it now long enough that I kind of get a feel for it Then we'll say let's go. And really it's a matter of they own everything. It's a matter of us guiding them through the process and then supporting them with just the knowledge they don't have about building a practice afterwards, and then lots of follow-up and hand-holding. Chris: And it's done. I think you said just as, basically a license agreement where they're licensing the name and brand and they get some support as a result of that as well. John: I mean contractually, I'm not obligated to support anything. Contractually I'm not obligated to support anything. All I'm obligated to do is to keep the value of the brand consistent with what they're paying for it. But I realized that if they're not successful, my brand value suffers. So we do all that we can to support them and help them be successful. Chris: So let's talk a little bit about your internal team. I mean, you've got a team I think you said 12, that's kind of help support you, that support these members. What have you found to be successful as you've gone through maybe trials and tribulations of hiring the right people, making sure you've got the right people in the right seat to kind of support the business and the brand? John: You know, that's a great question, because I, up until about 2015, I took a whole different approach to personnel than I did 2015 and on, and it was like I learned something, and that is I put together a group of really knowledgeable people in terms of their expertise in certain areas, but the quality that I had not paid attention to prior to that was they also had to be connectors. They had to be the kind of people that could say hey, chris, I know somebody you ought to talk to. And so because when a non-doctor walks into a doctor's office, even with the responsibility of helping, they carry a different level of credibility with that doctor than if a doctor told them something. If we go in and say, hey, listen, you need to be open Saturdays, because there's a lot of business on Saturdays, I don't want to do it. But if a doctor tells them, oh man, you got to be open Saturday, they'll listen to it. But if a doctor tells them, oh man, you've got to be open Saturday, they'll listen to it. And so our guys who are in the field, they do tactical training and support for staff, but when a doctor is facing an issue that they know the answer to, they in turn, seek out other leadership in the doctor community to say would you mind giving so-and-so a call Because I think you could help them get through whatever issue they're dealing with. And so that quality and frankly it's, you know it requires someone who doesn't have much of an ego. Sure, because you know I say this all the time like my old friend Ronald Reagan used to say, there's no limit to what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit. Chris: Yeah. John: And so we take that approach, and ours isn't about trying to get a bunch of credit. Ours is about trying to lift up this organization and get these guys successful, and if we're simply a facilitator in information to how to do that, we don't have to be the initial provider of that information. Even if we know it, it comes much better from a colleague, and so that's one of the things that we put a lot of emphasis on is helping the network, help each other. Chris: So you know you were very quick to say 2015. Have you seen a dramatic improvement in the performance of the overall business since making that change and kind of focusing on the connector quality as being an additional important quality in the people you bring on? John: Very much so, because what Texas State Optical was in the beginning was a doctor-owned organization and doctors working with other doctors to help them grow a network and large business. We're trying to replicate that from the standpoint of, especially as the business, the structure we use I mentioned earlier as a cooperative. It requires doctor leadership to be active and engaged in running their own company, their owners of the company, and so, while I have certainly an important role in that, the more doctors that engage in the leadership of the organization, the better it is overall. And since we took that intentional effort in 2015, a couple of things too. We had a kind of an evolution of membership. I mean, we had a lot of our older doctors retire and sell practices, and then we had a whole influx of young doctors, and so we ended up in 2015 with an organization that was significantly different demographically, both age and gender. That was significantly different demographically, both age and gender. But we thought they need mentorship among the leadership in the organization, and so we worked at creating that for them, and it impacts not just clinical I mean, there's also that aspect of it they're learning clinically from friends but operationally, and so it made a big difference Very good. Chris: I know that you have supply agreements with certain labs and other things. Let's talk about some of the things that you found to be successful in maintaining, I guess, forming those kind of key strategic relationships for the business, and maybe some of the things you do to make sure that you foster and keep them strong of the things you do to make sure that you foster and keep them strong. John: Well, in the vendor-doctor community there is a kind of an assumption made by both sides, and one is the doctor assumes that the vendor's got more money than they know how to spend or what they've got all this money to spend, and the vendor assumes the doctor's not going to follow through on all the promises they make. So that's kind of where we start at the table, and so I think it's important and what we've worked at bringing to our relationships is mutual accountability, and we have found our vendor partners to be extremely invested in our success, but at the same time they've got a business to run as well, and so our success with them and that dynamic of that exchange or relationship cannot be at the vendor's expense. It's gotta be the classic cliche win type of thing, but you only get win if you have mutual accountability. And so in every agreement we have, here's what the vendor commits to and here's what the doctor community commits to. And then we have business reviews where we sit down and say here's where we're dropping the ball or here's where you're dropping the ball, and we hold that accountability does a long goes a long way to not only making the relationship productive but also building trust and longevity into those partnerships, because if you're making money with a partner, you don't want it to stop, right, you know? And that goes both ways If you're a doctor making money with a partner, you don't want it to stop, and if money with a partner, you don't want it to stop, and if you're a partner, you don't want to stop. So I found that type of mutual accountability and the willingness to be held accountable is critical to those relationships Very good. Chris: So you know. Talk a little bit about leadership. You've been running this organization for a long time now. How would you describe your leadership style and how do you think that's evolved over time? John: well, I would. I don't know if I've ever been asked to describe it, but I would say it's Maxwellian. Okay, and that means John C Maxwell, who is an author, has written a number of books on leadership and, in my opinion, probably is the most the best leadership author. I'm biased, of course, but I think he is. Forbes Magazine said that a few years ago, but basically his definition of leadership is influence. Nothing more, nothing less. It's just influence. And an example of that is if you walk into a room of people, you're naturally going to notice someone who's exercising influence on others, and it isn't an authoritarian way, it's in a trust and credibility way. And so if you're influencing, you're leading. If you're not, it doesn no matter what title you have. So an example is my when I explained how we use doctors to help influence other doctors. So that's a level of influence that doesn't come because I require somebody to do something. It it occurs because you're able to influence others to to make a difference. So I would. I'm a big believer in that. I'll plug his book. There are 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. It's a classic, and so that's like a Bible. It's my business Bible in terms of leadership style. Chris: I was going to use that word because others and it's fair to plug books, because sometimes I ask people what's a book you would recommend. We hear a lot of good to great from people Sure, jim Collins. But what I love what you said if you're influencing, you're leading, because I say a lot of times a true leader leads without a title. John: Right, you're actually doing things without the title to demonstrate leadership, which is what you're talking about Exactly, and if you do have the title and can influence, it's a home run. It's a home run, yeah. Chris: So you've learned that through lots of trials and tribulations. I think we all learn through mistakes or setbacks Anything you could share with the listeners about a decision made that didn't go the way you thought but you learned from it and that learning kind of catapulted you made you better because of it. Setback, failure whatever word you want to describe Anything you could you care to share in that realm. John: Sure the. So I came to Houston. I was born and raised in Western Kansas and I was in Wichita born and raised in western Kansas, and I was in Wichita, kansas, in 1989, excuse me, in the late 80s, 84, 89 era and I was working for a large ophthalmology practice up there as a marketing administrator and in that role I attended a lot of national meetings in ophthalmology and during that meeting I met an owner of a large Houston ophthalmology and during that meeting I met an owner of a large Houston ophthalmology group who ended up offering me a job and I came to Texas. Due to some marketing challenges we were facing at that practice, I was introduced to Texas State Optical while I was at that practice and then left after about four years, left that practice and went to a consumer research firm here in Stafford and quickly turned around and went to Texas State Optical to see if they would like to buy some insurance I'm not insurance, buy some research and they did so. I ended up doing this large project for them but also ended up doing a ton of work for HLMP. During the time they were prepared to try to go to battle with Enron and this was like early nineties, right, and so everything was going well. And then I get fired from the research thing. Now I moved my family down from Kansas. I've been in the state about five and a half years and I get fired. I've been in the state about five and a half years and I get fired. And that was a big you know. Anytime you've been fired, that kind of devastates you Right, it shakes you up. Chris: Yeah, it does. John: But had that not happened, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing Right, and so I have learned, and what pulled me through that is faith, Faith in God and faith in myself is faith, faith in God and faith in myself, and I felt like I can do, kind of what. There was a part of it, chris, that was liberating, because that was like, instead of thinking now what am I going to do, I was thinking now what am I going to do. I mean, it was a whole different frame of attitude and that subsequently ended up leading to the position I have today, through working with franchisees at Texas State Optical and so forth. Chris: That's a great story. Thank you for sharing. You bet A lot of people don't want to talk about, especially if they've been fired for something. But to your point on that, these other opportunities would have never presented themselves right, because you likely stayed in the comfort of the job and seeing where that takes you. You know there's so much that can come. John: Actually, I'd gone to that research firm. The owner of it had brought me there with the promise implied I mean not implied, but it wasn't in writing but the idea was that I would take over that firm at some point and it turned out that didn't work out Well you know a lot of what you, I think, describe. Chris: The undertone to that is the mindset you had in the wake of that setback. You know you didn't let it take you down. You're like like you said what am I going to go? Do I got all these opportunities and go? Explore and figure it out. John: So I had about 30 days before the next house payment came, so that you were acting quick, got to be decisive man. Chris: You can't be stewing on decisions forever, for sure, well, that and so you know that leadership, you know is forged and helped you get to where you are today. You know, when you, when you think about applying that mindset and that leadership kind of style, how does it help you kind of navigate the ups and downs of the economic cycles that we've experienced over the last 20 plus years? John: Well, you know, first of all is to understand which of these cycles are cyclical. That's a little redundant, but I mean, what is it we're going through that's cyclical. That you can. You know, business loves a stable and predictable environment. Right Now, the reality is it's ups and downs. But if it's ups and downs within a certain range of up and down, it's stable right, and you can prepare for it Certain tolerances right, yeah certain tolerances. What we've seen, not only in the economy and that's a whole different issue but what we've seen in the profession itself and the consolidation of private practice by private equity that's come into the marketplace, is we're seeing disruption like we haven't seen before. And I was talking to one of our board members doctor board members about it and we were just, you know, he was pointing out all of the things that are kind of out without from under excuse me, out of our control, and as we were talking about it, I had this thought and I told him. I said it's a great time to be alive and that because we're the ones that get to go through this, and in many ways I believe that our profession is going through a transformation that will take probably a 20 year period of time. But 40 years from now, optometry, I don't think, will look anything like it does today, and it's always bumpy to be in the middle of that turbulent transformation. The 80s were very steady, the 90s were pretty steady. It was in starting about 2010, 2000, that things started rapidly changing and then the acceleration with just technology and everything else is just gone, and then you've got now the whole world of artificial intelligence coming into play and it's. I consider it exciting, invigorating, challenging, but I mean what's? The alternative is to be bored right. Chris: Well, if you don't adopt and if you're not using it, you die use it you die, that's right. So I mean, you know, kind of it's a great segue to what are some of the things you do to kind of foster that maybe innovative mindset of how you're going to embrace the technological changes and use them in the business model to further the brand and the business. John: So I there's very little I can do without the support of the doctor, owner, community right. And sometimes there's a lot of indecision, because when you're not sure what to do, you're scared of doing the wrong thing. Chris: Sure, Well, it seems like you got a lot of opinions that out there too, right? John: You got a lot of them, and so what I have to do is to influence them through other people and through information, to get them to a point of being open enough to consider ideas that they might consider kind of sacrilege in some case. For instance, what is real common in most optometry practices today is what's called an autorefractor. It's a machine that people go through and it gives you a prescription, and the prescription is used by the doctor to zero in on where your visual acuity is right. Well, when that first came out, optometrists thought that was the end of the profession. Here's a machine that'll do what I'm doing. Optometrists thought that was the end of the profession. Here's a machine that'll do what I'm doing. And so there's a fear oftentimes of innovation. Right, that you have to assure people that there's a way to use this to our benefit, and that's what we're going through with artificial intelligence right now. One group is scared to death. It's going to replace them. The other group is glad they're old enough, they're probably not going to have to go through with it. And then you're looking for those people who say, hey, how can we utilize this to really to our benefit? Yeah, and once people feel that's safe enough to kind of try. Then the people realize that the fear is misplaced. Chris: So true, right, but it takes education, information and influence, as you said, to get people to get there so that they can adopt it One of the things that I teach my team to say. John: I mean to believe, and I say it all the time is we believe in everybody's right to make a bad decision. So if someone listens to us and they choose not to do what we're recommending and we know it's a good decision what we're recommending and they choose not to, it's their right. You know, I mean everybody's right to waste their own money. So that kind of patience is necessary with a group like ours. In many ways it's like working with a volunteer organization. Chris: Yeah, well, lots of challenges there, I'm sure. Well, john, this has been a great conversation. I really appreciate you sharing everything I want to ask you, I guess, going back to your days, you know, I guess growing up in Kansas what was your first job? John: A drugstore Rexall drugstore and I grew up in a town of 2000 people and my dad was the family physician of the community and so of course in a town like that in western Kansas the doctor and the pharmacist are close relationship. And so I got my first job at a drugstore, working a soda fountain, delivering prescriptions, restocking things. Like that had a blast and that really I learned a lot in that, not just like everybody learns a lot from their first job, but understanding. I was intrigued by Rexall. I don't know how familiar you are with Rexall, but Rexall was a national organization that gave private ownership of drugstores the purchasing power of a large corporate chain, and so my employer was the pharmacist. He owned the drug store and he stood up in the stand in the dais every day counting pills and chatting with people. So that was my first job. Chris: Very good. Well, you've been in Texas now since what the late? John: 80s. Chris: So do you prefer Tex-Mex or barbecue Barbecue? Okay. John: Barbecue Very good. My waistline prefers barbecue. Chris: And last thing if you could take a 30-day sabbatical, where would you go and what would you do? I don't know, Probably nuts. John: I just I've got to be engaged and I mean I don't have to be. I'm not select. I love business and I love the challenge it has. So I'm not I don't. You said earlier in our discussion about you were describing about the law firm. When I was doing consumer research, I did some healthcare work 12 Oaks Hospital was a client and so but I would tell people, is I specialize in a process, not an industry, because the process is the same and I would say that's what I really love about business, because when you boil it down to what I do and what you do and others that run businesses, it's the same process. It's understanding your customer and then directing how your services or products benefit that customer and communicating and the whole marketing scheme of promotion, price, product and place applies to every industry. And so I'd probably do something if I had 30 days. Like I said, I'd go nuts. Chris: Well, but I think what you just said there in the end is you have great insight and learning for business owners and entrepreneurs out there. You're trying to find their way. It's it is figure out what the consumer that you're catering to really wants and then deliver that as efficient as best you can that's why you know my, when I first got into consumer research, I thought this is like cheating. John: I mean you're actually going out and saying what do you want? They tell you, and then you give it to them. I mean it's like, it's amazing. Chris: Yeah, right, so well, this has been great, John. Thanks again for taking the time. You bet I really appreciate your invitation. Special Guest: John D Marvin.

Razor has picked his squad for the Northern Tour and how do our panel of Paul, Piri, Jeff and Searle rate it?Is this playing things a little too safe or is getting wins more important to build consistency?With any All Blacks squad there are those who have missed out, and with the squad looking like a series of safe picks, who do our panel think has been unlucky to not make the cut?With Auckland misses in the NPC quarter finals, should the area be concerned about their lack of representation.Finally the group break down each team's chances to make the NPC semi-finals.

Join us this Sunday as we discuss Chapter 7: Overcoming Temptation.

Welcome back to the Pick and Go podcast.Paul is joined by Searle and Jeff Wilson as they dissect the Rugby Championship.With the Northern Tour now just around the corner, who hurt their chances of being in the squad and who has cemented their place in the squad?The big question is should NZ relax the stance on using overseas players, or would that weaken the domestic game?Rugby is under pressure like never before so would can be done to maintain the game?We look at the NPC coming up, will big teams be missing out on this year's playoffs?Lastly the trio make their Ranfurly Shield predictions.

In this episode of Get Unstuck & On Target, host Mike O'Neill talks with Gary Searle about the power of referral marketing in today's business landscape.Gary Searle, founder of Customerse, shares his expertise on building consistent referral sources. He breaks down the five most reliable referral channels:1. Existing clients2. Business partnerships 3. Affiliate networks4. Employee referrals5. Strategic networkingMike and Gary discuss why traditional marketing tactics are losing effectiveness. As ad costs rise and algorithms change, businesses need new ways to reach customers. Gary argues referral marketing fills this gap.The conversation covers practical tips for asking clients for referrals without feeling awkward. Gary emphasizes timing these requests after a "win" and framing them as helping the client's network.A key insight: Every referral starts with a conversation. Gary stresses the importance of productive dialogue in driving referrals at any scale.Mike adds valuable perspective as an executive coach, noting parallels between referral marketing and building coaching relationships. Both rely on meaningful conversations to create connections.Topics to look out for:• The five most consistent referral sources for businesses• How to ask for referrals without feeling uncomfortable • Why conversations are the key to unlocking more referralsThis episode provides a fresh take on an age-old marketing tactic. Gary and Mike make a compelling case for why referral marketing deserves renewed focus in the digital age.Find all the show notes and links here:  https://www.unstuck.show/190

We talk with Seth Fendley on his new job promotion and the blowback from Bud Hill.Then Tyler Searle joins the show to save the day! If you want to support Soar Disc Golf, you can do so at www.soardiscgolf.com. Get yourself some Jerky. Get bonus content on Patreon and early episode access. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does "the ghost in the machine" mean? From philosophy to artificial intelligence, we explore this idiom to understand what it means, how it's used and if the dream of strong AI is realistic.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome back to the Pick and Go podcast!The All Blacks are in an unfamiliar situation having lost 3 of their last 4 games - thank goodness for the Eden Park fortress - and could potentially be lacking a trophy.So, is this the time to panic, or merely a transition between coaching styles?If all this All Blacks talk is making you blue, then we can look to the red of Tasman who won the Ranfurly Shield in the final seconds.Speaking of the Ranfurly Shield, Piri gives us an insight into what happens after you win the shield and what players get up to.Lastly, the trio of Paul, Piri and Searle look ahead to the test match against Australia and with both teams needing to make a statement it's going to be an exciting match up.

Jessica Searle spent all of her early years dealing with dysfunctional parents. Drugs, alcohol and even abuse were part of her young life. She left home at 13 living in the Mission district of San Francisco where she was jumped into a gang. Finally finding herself in Utah, any hope of change vanished as she continued down the path of drugs, and bad relationships. She lived that way for 25 years until she was finally done. Enrolling in The Other Side Academy changed her life. Now she is articulate, authentic, and purposeful. She is not the person she spent 38 years becoming. She has a light in her eyes and hope in her heart. Her story is one of triumph over insurmountable odds. Sponsors & Partners The Other Side Academy (TOSA) - theothersideacademy.com My Story Matters / Captain Your Story - mystorymatters.org 00:00:00 - Jessica Searle 00:01:36 - The Other Side Academy 00:01:50 - My Story Matters / Captain Your Story 00:02:40 - A ‘Hectic' Childhood 00:04:45 - Early Abuse 00:06:28 - Learning to Hide from Good Influences 00:08:35 - Finally Opening Up About the Abuse 00:10:20 - Running Away 00:13:55 - Moving Back in with Her Parents & Culture Shock 00:17:17 - Pregnant at 15 00:20:30 - Surgery & Opiates 00:23:59 - Going on a Crime Spree & Landing in Prison 00:27:02 - A Moment of Stability 00:28:00 - Starting to Slip 00:29:14 - “Lighting Myself On Fire to Keep Everybody Warm” 00:33:58 - Losing Her Partner & The Kids 00:38:35 - Her Mom Passes Away 00:41:28 - Writing to The Other Side Academy 00:49:40 - 4 Years at TOSA 00:54:00 - A Piece of Advice For Herself

In this episode, Andy and Kate chat with Becky Searle @sow_much_more about the importance of soil health and the role that it plays in boosting productivity.  Join us for a journey into soil health, no-dig gardening and the joy of rescue tortoises. Hope you enjoy this episode as much as we enjoyed recording it.  Leave us a review if you get chance, it would mean a lot to us.The Growing Up Podcast is proudly sponsored by the amazing First Tunnels. We are big believers in the benefits of growing in a polytunnel and genuinely believe in the quality of the products that First Tunnels supply. Check out the link below to order your own tunnel. If you would like honest advice before making your purchase please don't hesitate to reach out to us!Check them out here➡️ https://rb.gy/55t356

Can a machine really understand what it means to exist—or are we just falling for smart code? Imagine an AI writing a breakup song that tugs at your heartstrings—now, does that AI feel the heartbreak too? We're diving into this mind-bending question, exploring everything from Aristotle's ancient wisdom to Musk's futuristic Neuralink. Could machines develop emotions, or even their own sense of being? Tune in as we tackle the ultimate question: Is AI on the verge of truly thinking and feeling—or is it all just an illusion?Subscribe to your favorite option:1.

Join us this Sunday as we study the last chapter of the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, which summarizes what the Bible teaches about The Last Judgment.

Join us this Sunday as we walk through chapters 28 and 29 of the 1689 London Baptist Confession. Chapter 28 is about the establishment of the ordinances of the church (Baptism and the Lord's Supper). Chapter 29 is all about baptism - so a key differentiator of the Baptist confession versus the Westminster. See you there!

What is the nature of social institutions? Is Searle correct that collective agreement is the key to understanding social phenomena, or should we pursue a different theoretical framework? Smit argues for a different understanding of institutions, which relies on the notion of a coordination game. Read Smit's publications here: https://philpeople.org/profiles/j-p-smit [00:00] Introduction and Guest Welcome [00:15] Thought Experiment: Prison Economy [01:29] The Nature of Money: Abstract vs. Physical [02:12] Searle's Explanation of Money [03:45] Philosophical Debates on Institutional Objects [05:02] Game Theoretical Account of Money [08:08] Analogy: Chess and Money [20:06] Critique of Complex Theories of Money [24:18] Coordination Games and Social Phenomena [35:36] Exploring Social Facts and Ontology [36:46] Human Existence and Social Phenomena [38:03] Borders and Incentives [41:47] Dormant Laws and Institutions [45:41] Legal Definitions and Descriptive Tasks [53:27] The Nature of Companies and Legal Entities [01:02:14] Social Groups and Identity [01:08:17] Concluding Thoughts

Join us this Sunday as we walk through Chapter 26 of the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which is all about “the Church.” There are fifteen paragraphs, so be ready to move quickly! See you there!

On this episode of the IPhO Podcast, Coach Jerry, Architect of the IPhO Coaching Service, talks about his professional career and the circumstances that led to his commitment and contributions to students, fellows, and experienced traditional pharmacists pursuing industry practice. Jerry's professional career includes positions in sales, training, and marketing at Eli Lilly, Searle, and BIMARK Medical Communications. He currently holds the position Senior Consultant, Coach, and Industry Instructor. Jerry attributes his career success to using both his “right and left brain” to integrate complex scientific and clinical principles with creativity and communication skills to bring new pharmaceutical products to market. As an industry coach, he uses these skills to identify clients' strengths and weaknesses, match them with their interests, and prepare them for the competitive interviewing process.   In this episode, Coach Jerry will also explain how he overcame his greatest personal challenge, living with a disability, requiring that he retire early from his day job of running a medical communications agency to find professional joy and success in coaching others to pursue their professional dreams.

I start this episode with a song that has helped me through difficult chaotic seasons. Regardless of what your opinion is on God and spirituality, we all trust something, and for me trusting God's love for me has helped me hang on through so much. I hope the song gives you hope and helps you trust in the power of love. Today we talk about how to help teenagers that have gone through trauma. As a community, we need to be equipped to help all kinds of children and these particular group would need to be nurtured in a different way. Denise Searle has many years of experience as a foster carer, trained in therapeutic parenting and talks us through how to do this. Get my new book- Pursue Your Passion ⁠Here ⁠ If you haven't yet, please join the facebook group - mental health skills for teenagers here where we can discuss these skills further: https://www.facebook.com/share/A4QBMW8ppPDkFYNF/ Download my 7 day devotional along with some of my best songs here To follow me on social media- ⁠https://linktr.ee/EbiOginni⁠ If you would like to talk to me about incorporating healthy strategies for coping into your routine with your kids, book a call with me today- ⁠https://calendly.com/ebioginnimusic/30min?month=2023-01⁠ If this has blessed you- please share with your friends and tag @ebioginnimusic

Kathy Searle, LCSW (Vice President of Utah Programs at Raise the Future), joins Utah's First Lady, Abby Cox, to discuss her experiences with adoption and how they have shaped her work today in helping to find families for children in foster care. We also talk about the need to provide support to adoptive families, how adoptive families have to navigate the reality of expectations, and why community fear can have such a negative impact on foster families and their choices to adopt. Then, we dive into Raise the Future’s mission of connecting youth with families. Related Links Raise the Future: https://www.raisethefuture.org/ Heart Gallery: https://www.utahadopt.org/building-your-family/heart-gallery

A SERIES OF PODCASTS:To Maximilian Büsser, founder of MB&F, watchmaking is art, but most of all, it's a mindset, a journey. The history of watchmaking is filled with adventurers - dreamers, engineers, artists who will each in their own way contribute to a better world. The watchmaking journey is first and foremost about very special individuals. Some are rebels and mavericks and most have a little touch of madness…Over the years, MB&F has united around the brand a collectors' circle called “The Tribe”, who are each in their own way adventurers. In this podcast, you'll discover their amazing lives, what drives their creativity and what feeds their passion for watchmaking. Welcome to Tales from the Tribe, the MB&F's Podcast.EPISODE 2 — The power of regrets with Todd SearleThis second episode of our series features Todd Searle. Todd defines himself as a dreamer, which is the best way to talk about him. He is so passionate about artisanal watchmaking that he left everything behind to live fully in his passion, becoming one of the main directors of watchmaking documentaries in the world. Fierce protector of the spirit of entrepreneurship, he is the author of “32 Regrets : A Guide to Reclaiming Creativity”, where he talks about entrepreneurs who have successfully turned their life's passion into self sustaining ventures, including Maximilian Büsser.In this episode, Todd talks about failure as a major key to success, his love at first sight for artisanal watches, his passion for the history of Swiss watchmaking and most of all, about creativity as a major driver in his life.

Você é livre pra fazer suas escolhas? Ou será que todas já estão determinadas? Você de fato escolheu ouvir esse cast ou será que toda a sua história de vida, junto com a história do universo, te levaram a isso? Um debate filosófico sobre o que significa viver em um mundo determinista, as repercussões teóricas e práticas disso.         Patronato do SciCast: Patreon SciCast Padrim SciCast Nos ajude via Pix também, chave: contato@scicast.com.br Sua pequena contribuição ajuda o Portal Deviante a continuar divulgando Ciência! Contatos: contato@scicast.com.br https://twitter.com/scicastpodcast https://www.facebook.com/scicastpodcast https://instagram.com/scicastpodcast Fale conosco! E não esqueça de deixar o seu comentário na postagem desse episódio! Expediente: Produção Geral: Tarik Fernandes e André Trapani Equipe de Gravação: Tarik Fernandes, André Trapani, Roberto Spinelli, Felipe Novaes e Anna Rita Erthal Citação ABNT: Scicast #589: Determinismo. Locução: Tarik Fernandes, André Trapani, Roberto Spinelli, Felipe Novaes, Anna Rita Erthal. [S.l.] Portal Deviante, 26/04/2024. Podcast. Disponível em: https://www.deviante.com.br/podcasts/scicast-589 Arte: Jânio Referências e Indicações   Sugestões de literatura: LAPLACE, Pierre-Simon. Ensaio filosófico sobre as probabilidades. Rio de Janeiro: Editora Contraponto, 2010. SEARLE, John. Neurobiologia e Liberdade. Unifesp, 2008. DENNETT, Daniel. Brainstorms. Unifesp, 2006.   Sugestões de filmes: The Good Place, S03E07: O pior uso possível do livre-arbítrio.   Sugestões de vídeos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYzFH8xqhns&t=1s    Sugestões de links: Scicast #108: Isaac Newton: https://www.deviante.com.br/podcasts/scicast/108-isaac-newton/  Scicast #152: Física Quântica: https://www.deviante.com.br/podcasts/scicast/scicast-152-fisica-quantica/  Scicast #165: Física Quântica 2: https://www.deviante.com.br/podcasts/scicast/scicast-165-fisica-quantica-2/  Scicast #377: Teorema de Bayes: https://www.deviante.com.br/podcasts/scicast-377/  SciCast #315: Psicologia: https://www.deviante.com.br/podcasts/scicast-315/  SciCast #537: Desigualdades de Bell: https://www.deviante.com.br/podcasts/scicast-537/ SciCast #477: Emaranhamento Quântico: https://www.deviante.com.br/podcasts/scicast-477/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

  @JordanBPeterson   Exploring the Philosophical and Scientific | Dr. Daniel Dennett | EP 438 https://youtu.be/VWpm2NOF2Zw?si=6YS2G0xqn9-b_HCS  The whole conversation is here in "no wait no ads" https://youtu.be/6zrawpzwRf0   Paul Vander Klay clips channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX0jIcadtoxELSwehCh5QTg Bridges of Meaning Discord https://discord.gg/J6BqymNg https://www.meetup.com/sacramento-estuary/ My Substack https://paulvanderklay.substack.com/ Estuary Hub Link https://www.estuaryhub.com/ If you want to schedule a one-on-one conversation check here. https://calendly.com/paulvanderklay/one2one There is a video version of this podcast on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/paulvanderklay To listen to this on ITunes https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/paul-vanderklays-podcast/id1394314333  If you need the RSS feed for your podcast player https://paulvanderklay.podbean.com/feed/  All Amazon links here are part of the Amazon Affiliate Program. Amazon pays me a small commission at no additional cost to you if you buy through one of the product links here. This is is one (free to you) way to support my videos.  https://paypal.me/paulvanderklay Blockchain backup on Lbry https://odysee.com/@paulvanderklay https://www.patreon.com/paulvanderklay Paul's Church Content at Living Stones Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh7bdktIALZ9Nq41oVCvW-A To support Paul's work by supporting his church give here. https://tithe.ly/give?c=2160640