Village in British Columbia, Canada
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4 episodes with kaslo
4 episodes with kaslo
4 episodes with kaslo
2 episodes with kaslo
2 episodes with kaslo
"Hail to the chief, because he's the one we all say 'Hail' to..." - DaveZack and Erik are joined once again by Kaslo 25 (from the Super Switch Club) to talk about "Dave" (1993), just in time for President's Day! You can help support Erik directly by buying his book, "EPIC FAILS: Not-So-Great Presidents" - and be sure to check out his recent 'Ranking the Presidents' three-parter over on the 'Epik Fails of History' podcast!(Edited by Erik Slader, Intro / Outro by Dave Steele!)The Podcasters will Assemble again... If you would like to be featured on an upcoming episode head over to: https://probablywork.com/podcasters-assemble/You can also join the discussion in our Discord serverSupport us on Patreon or Buy Our Merch!Network InfoThis podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network. Follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts! The place for those with questionable taste!Twitter | Facebook| Instagram: @probablywork www.probablywork.comEmail: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com
"Run for it? Running's not a plan! Running's what you do once a plan fails!" - Earl Bassett Zack and Erik are joined by Kaslo 25 (from the Super Switch Club) and Meghan Slader (from the Nerdeagram podcast) - to celebrate the 35th anniversary of "Tremors"! (Edited by Zack Derby, Intro / Outro by Dave Steele!) The Podcasters will Assemble again... If you would like to be featured on an upcoming episode head over to: https://probablywork.com/podcasters-assemble/ You can also join the discussion in our Discord server Support us on Patreon or Buy Our Merch! Network Info This podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network. Follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts! The place for those with questionable taste! Twitter | Facebook| Instagram: @probablywork www.probablywork.com Email: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com
Just in time for the holidays, Kaslo Claus has assembled several podcasters from around the world to review a number of Hallmark Rom Com "classics"! Podcasters Featured: Zack Derby, Frost, Trai / Tracy (from the Discord), DT from Space Castle (on You Tube), Johnny from the Rapper's Corner, Erik *and* Meghan Slader (from the Nerdeagram Podcast), and Kaslo 25 from Twitch! Movies: The Knight Before Christmas Hot Frosty The Merry Gentlemen Holiday in Handcuffs Happiest Season Dear Santa Exmas Nonsense Christmas Meet Me Next Christmas (Edited by Kaslo!) Network Info This podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network. Follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts! The place for those with questionable taste! Twitter | Facebook| Instagram: @probablyworkwww.probablywork.com Email: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com
prOphecy sun is an artist, musician and educator who divides her time between Vancouver and Nelson, BC. She has been perfomring experimental music in Vancouver since the early 2000s. This conversation was recorded on November 3, 2024. Sixth Fest happened on 6th Avenue between Ontario and Manitoba beginning in 2009 and latest for several years. Video In (later VIVO) began life as The Satellite Video Exchange Society, founded in 1973. It excited in three other spaces before moving to 1965 Main Street in 1993. It promoted the uses of non-commercial video software as an information and communications medium, and the international exchange of non-commercial videotape material and information as well as providing educational resources and arts space. It moved to Kaslo street in 2014. Blim is still an independent art and craft facility which began in 2003. Between around 2008 and 2010 it was at 197 East 17th Ave. Musicians discussed: Bush tit, Chris-a-riffic, Kellarissa, Robyn Jacob, Polymer Dance, Dance Troupe Practice, Her Jazz Noise Collective, Constantine Katsiris (Scant Intone), Unreliable Narrator, Role Mach. This epsisode features the following music: prOphecy sun: Follow Me from Sleep Fever (2013) Spell: Guided Highways from Lull (2012) prOphecy sun: Opening from SkyCat (2021)
"It's not easy being old." - Sophie With our latest Studio Ghibli movie directed by Hayao Miyazaki, we're talking about the 2004 anime, "Howl's Moving Castle" - based on the novel by Diana Wynne Jones... Podcasters Featured: Erik and Meghan Slader from Nerdeagram Elyse from The Super Switch Club Douglas Gale from What's Your Damage? Kaslo 25 on Twitch Zack Derby from The NeatCast and Effin Cultured And Tracy T from the Discord! (Edited by Erik Slader / Music by Vigo @DeftStrokeSound!) *Note: Bill is still editing "Porco Rosso"... Next Time: "The Boy and the Heron"! 2024 is the Year of Ghibli... If you would like to be featured on an upcoming episode head over to: https://probablywork.com/podcasters-assemble/ You can also join the discussion in our Discord server Support us on Patreon or Buy Our Merch! Network Info This podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network. Follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts! The place for those with questionable taste! Twitter | Facebook| Instagram: @probablyworkwww.probablywork.com Email: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com
We all need a place to call our own—somewhere we feel safe to relax and refuel—but a recent convergence of circumstances has made finding a home a serious challenge. In this episode, we focus on housing solutions here in the Basin. We start with a “Tale of Two Towns,” an investigation into creative, multi-faceted projects in Rossland and Fernie. Then we jump through Meadow Creek, Kaslo, Procter, and South Slocan to meet Kootenay entrepreneurs who are using surprisingly innovative solutions to address our housing crisis.
“There must be some mistake! None of these pigs are my parents!” - Chihiro With our latest Studio Ghibli movie directed by Hayao Miyazaki, we're talking about the 2001 anime masterpiece, "Spirited Away" - a fantastical story that delves into Japanese myth and folklore... Podcasters Featured: Erik and Meghan Slader from Nerdeagram Elyse from The Super Switch Club Douglas Gale from What's Your Damage? Kaslo 25 on Twitch Bill from The RPG Years Zack Derby from The NeatCast and Effin Cultured And Dan (Blue-Greener) from the Discord! (Edited by Erik Slader / Music by Vigo @DeftStrokeSound!) *Note: Bill is still editing "Porco Rosso"... Next Time: "Howl's Moving Castle"! 2024 is the Year of Ghibli... If you would like to be featured on an upcoming episode head over to: https://probablywork.com/podcasters-assemble/ You can also join the discussion in our Discord server Support us on Patreon or Buy Our Merch! Network Info This podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network. Follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts! The place for those with questionable taste! Twitter | Facebook| Instagram: @probablyworkwww.probablywork.com Email: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com
“To see with eyes unclouded by hate...” - Prince Ashitaka Our sixth(?) Studio Ghibli movie directed by Hayao Miyazaki: the 1997 anime masterpiece, "Princess Mononoke" - an epic saga about man vs nature, in a world of gods and demons, where a young prince joins forces with a feral wolf girl to save the Forest Spirit from Lady Eboshi... Podcasters Featured: Erik and Meghan Slader from Nerdeagram Elyse from The Super Switch Club Douglas Gale from What's Your Damage? Kaslo 25 on Twitch Zack Derby from The NeatCast and Effin Cultured (Edited by Erik Slader / Music by Vigo @DeftStrokeSound!) *Note: Bill is still editing "Porco Rosso"... Next Time: "Spirited Away"! 2024 is the Year of Ghibli... If you would like to be featured on an upcoming episode head over to: https://probablywork.com/podcasters-assemble/ You can also join the discussion in our Discord server Support us on Patreon or Buy Our Merch! Network Info This podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network. Follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts! The place for those with questionable taste! Twitter | Facebook| Instagram: @probablyworkwww.probablywork.com Email: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com
Welcome to the Cross Border Interviews, Today's guest is Kaslo Mayor Suzan Hewat Cross Border Interviews is Part of the Cross Border Network. ©2024
Welcome to Episode 49 of The RPG Years! This week, Frost and..... Kaslo return to the world of the Golden Sun for the RPG Club!!! Where the 4 kids go looking for more deserts! It's time for part 3 of the American takeover club! The RPG Years is hosting an RPG Club! It's like a book club, but with RPGs, and we hope all of you play along! Legend Of Dragoon Part 8 - Reconnect the Teleporter to Mayfil (After Court of Zenebatos) - Due May 5th Golden Sun Segment 4 - Finish the game - Due May 19th Please support the show at patreon.com/rpgyears Join us on our Discord server! discord.gg/3WPBgur $700 SAGA CHALLENGE: https://www.justgiving.com/page/700saga/ You can also find Scott on Twitch over at twitch.tv/the_scott_spot! Send a Carrier Pigeon or Whatever: Twitter: @RPGYEARS Personal Twitters: Frost: @TheFrostSpot, Bill: @Metunnica Email: rpgafteryears@gmail.com Check out our merch store at https://www.redbubble.com/people/RPGAfterYears/explore We Can Make This Work Probably Network: This podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts! The place for those with questionable taste! ProbablyWork.com,Twitter, Facebook, Instagram @ProbablyWorkEmail: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com Master list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13CgtJfptz1S3Da2HUsJDK86SfAIPMGA-Rmi4YZUpTGw/edit?usp=sharing
“No matter how many weapons you have, no matter how great your technology might be, the world cannot live without love.” -Sheeta This month we're watching the second Studio Ghibli movie directed by Hayao Miyazaki: "Laputa" or "Castle in the Sky" from 1986 - a steam-punk adventure to find an ancient lost city in the clouds! Podcasters Featured: Erik and Meghan Slader from Nerdeagram Elyse from The Super Switch Club Douglas Gale from Game Game Pass Bill from The RPG Years Kaslo 25 on Twitch Zack Derby from The NeatCast and Effin Cultured (Edited by Erik Slader / Music by Vigo @DeftStrokeSound!) *Note: Bill is still editing our "Nausicaa" episode, but we figured we should at least get this one out before our extended "Totoro" due date. Next Time: "My Neighbor Totoro" 2024 is the Year of Ghibli... If you would like to be featured on an upcoming episode head over to: https://probablywork.com/podcasters-assemble/ You can also join the discussion in our Discord server Support us on Patreon or Buy Our Merch! Network Info This podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network. Follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts! The place for those with questionable taste! Twitter | Facebook| Instagram: @probablyworkwww.probablywork.com Email: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com
Welcome to Episode 35 of The RPG Years!This week, Bill is joined by Scott and special guest KASLO!!!! Were all here to review the Capcom RPG... Its the desert you've all been trying to avoid, its the Breath of Fire III review!!! The RPG Years is hosting an RPG Club! It's like a book club, but with RPGs, and we hope all of you play along! The RPG Club nominations and voting open NOW! New Legend of Dragoon Club starts Jan 14th Please support the show at patreon.com/rpgyears Join us on our Discord server! discord.gg/3WPBgur $700 SAGA CHALLENGE: https://www.justgiving.com/page/700saga/ You can also find Scott on Twitch over at twitch.tv/the_scott_spot! Send a Carrier Pigeon or Whatever: Twitter: @RPGYEARS Personal Twitters: Scott: @TheScottSpot, Bill: @Metunnica Email: rpgafteryears@gmail.com Check out our merch store at https://www.redbubble.com/people/RPGAfterYears/explore We Can Make This Work Probably Network: This podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts! The place for those with questionable taste! ProbablyWork.com,Twitter, Facebook, Instagram @ProbablyWorkEmail: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com Master list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13CgtJfptz1S3Da2HUsJDK86SfAIPMGA-Rmi4YZUpTGw/edit?usp=sharing
Hear about driving the Selkirk Loop in Washington State, Idaho, and British Columbia as the Amateur Traveler talks to Anthony and Jodie St. Clair from learnersandmakers.com about their favorite road trip. https://amateurtraveler.com/driving-the-selkirk-loop/ Why should you drive the Selkirk Loop? Anthony and Jodie say, "It is just the most epic, gorgeous views of nature, I think. And it's very accessible. I (Jodie) am an amputee, and so I'm always looking for ways to easily access nature. It felt like we were out in the middle of these beautiful spaces while I didn't have to do a ten-mile hike to do it. " "We've driven things like the Blue Ridge Parkway in, Virginia, North Carolina, we've driven highway one in California. We've RV'd across the entire USA. The Selkirk loop holds its own with any of those scenic drives." Leg 1: Spokane, Washington to Newport, Washington The easiest place to access the Selkirk Loop is from Spokane, Washington. Stretch your legs in Newport, a small town at the beginning of the Selkirk Loop. Check out the visitor center, museum, and the giant paddle wheel. Don't miss the county museum, showcasing the timber industry and the region's history. Leg 2: Newport to Sandpoint, Idaho Head south to Sandpoint, Idaho, situated on Lake Pend Oreille. Enjoy water activities, and boat tours, and explore the surrounding mountains. The lake is the star here, and various public beach areas exist. Sandpoint offers a mix of outdoor adventures and charming small-town vibes. Leg 3: Sandpoint to Creston, British Columbia Cross the border into Canada and explore Creston. Visit an organic dairy farm, sample cheese, and experience the meshing of organic practices with technology. Check out the Kootenay Columbia Discovery Center for nature exploration and hands-on experiences. Leg 4: Creston to Kootenay Bay (Ferry) to Kaslo Take the free ferry from Kootenay Bay to experience the Kaslo area. Explore artisan workshops in Crawford Bay and soak in the town's history and nature. Kaslo offers a mix of small-town charm, outdoor activities, and a chance to visit the SS Moyie, a restored paddle-wheeler turned museum. Leg 5: Kaslo to Castlegar Head south to Castlegar, known for its outdoor art, sculpture garden, and Zuckerberg Island. Walk across a suspension bridge, explore hiking trails, and enjoy the mix of nature and town life. Learn about the Doukhobors' history and their sustainable farming practices. Leg 6: Castlegar to Boundary Reservoir Recreation Area Cross back into the US and visit the Boundary Reservoir Recreation Area. Kayak to Pee Wee Falls, a stunning 233-foot waterfall. Hike to Sweet Creek Falls for a short, easy trail with a wading pool. Take in the region's beauty while enjoying simpler pleasures like skipping rocks into the creek. Leg 7: Boundary Reservoir to the End Explore Gardner Cave, the longest known cave in Washington state, and take a guided family-friendly tour—hike to Sweet Creek Falls for another waterfall experience. Enjoy the scenic Vista House, overlooking the Boundary Waters dam. Drive through communities like Ione and Metaline Falls, and don't miss Gardner Cave, the longest-known cave in Washington state. Reflect on the incredible memories as you approach the end of this unforgettable road trip.
Welcome to Episode 24 of The RPG Years! This week, Kaslo joins Bill to discuss this years FF14 Fan Fest! Strap in for some MMO goodness! The RPG After Years is hosting an RPG Club! It's like a book club, but with RPGs, and we hope all of you play along! The RPG Club for Breath of Fire III starts Sunday 14th May! Next goal is to Finish the Game! - Due August 20th New Patreon game!!! Please support the show at patreon.com/rpgyears Join us on our Discord server! discord.gg/3WPBgur $700 SAGA CHALLENGE: https://www.justgiving.com/page/700saga/ www.matieralockdown.com Watch the show live on Twitch! We typically stream the main episodes at 9am EST on Sundays. Keep an eye out on Twitter and Discord for extra bonus recordings or time changes. It's all at twitch.tv/rpgafteryears You can also find Scott on Twitch over at twitch.tv/the_scott_spot! Send a Carrier Pigeon or Whatever: Twitter: @RPGYEARS Personal Twitters: Rich: @Hailblue1569, Scott: @TheScottSpot, Bill: @Metunnica Email: rpgafteryears@gmail.com Check out our merch store at https://www.redbubble.com/people/RPGAfterYears/explore We Can Make This Work Probably Network: This podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts! The place for those with questionable taste! ProbablyWork.com,Twitter, Facebook, Instagram @ProbablyWorkEmail: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com Master list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13CgtJfptz1S3Da2HUsJDK86SfAIPMGA-Rmi4YZUpTGw/edit?usp=sharing
Welcome to Episode 15 of The RPG Years! This week, Bill takes some needed time off to recover from a rough few weeks. Frost and Kalso combine to give us a big news round up! Strap in for some RPG goodness! The RPG After Years is hosting an RPG Club! It's like a book club, but with RPGs, and we hope all of you play along! The RPG Club for Breath of Fire III starts this Sunday 14th May! Goal is to Reach Castle Wyndia by May 28th! Please support the show at patreon.com/rpgyears Join us on our Discord server! discord.gg/3WPBgur www.matieralockdown.com Materia Lockdown @FF7MLD is fundraising for Motor Neurone Disease Association (justgiving.com) Watch the show live on Twitch! We typically stream the main episodes at 9am EST on Sundays. Keep an eye out on Twitter and Discord for extra bonus recordings or time changes. It's all at twitch.tv/rpgafteryears You can also find Scott on Twitch over at twitch.tv/the_scott_spot! Send a Carrier Pigeon or Whatever: Twitter: @RPGYEARS Personal Twitters: Rich: @Hailblue1569, Scott: @TheScottSpot, Bill: @Metunnica Email: rpgafteryears@gmail.com Check out our merch store at https://www.redbubble.com/people/RPGAfterYears/explore We Can Make This Work Probably Network: This podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts! The place for those with questionable taste! ProbablyWork.com,Twitter, Facebook, Instagram @ProbablyWorkEmail: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com Master list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13CgtJfptz1S3Da2HUsJDK86SfAIPMGA-Rmi4YZUpTGw/edit?usp=sharing
Welcome to episode 12 of Season 3 of the I Am Black History podcast brought to you by InTheBlack:Canada (ITBC) and DeeP Visions Media. I was fortunate enough to be introduced to Shayna Jones by Carol Lafayette-Boyd last summer when travelling west. I interviewed Shayna over Zoom from her home in Kaslo, British Columbia. Shayna is an award winning, professional, performance artist specializing in the traditional oral storytelling of African and Afro-Diasporic folklore. Shayna is also the creator and lead on an amazing project called Black and Rural which she talked about here with us and, if you want to know more, check out her website https://www.wearestoryfolk.com/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/donna-paris/message
For musician and luthier Kevin John of Kaslo, B.C., delving into his Indigenous roots is an important part of his own unfolding story. But it's not everything.The full story, he says, is about who the rest of us are, too, and what we can do individually and collectively to make Canada and the world a better place.Kevin—the writer and performer of the podcast's theme music—talks about reconnecting with his Kyuquot/Checleseht First Nations family, finding his own reason for being, and the need for peoples reconnected by technology to start heeding the teachings of their elders and spiritual leaders.Support the Show.Join our Facebook community: www.facebook.com/UnsettledJourneys/Check us out on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/unsettledjourneys/Become a paid subscriber: https://ko-fi.com/unsettledjourneysQuestions, comments, suggestions, offers to volunteer:unsettledjourneys@gmail.com
Spey Resources is a Canadian mineral exploration company which has an 80% interest in the Candela II lithium brine project located in the Incahuasi Salar, Salta Province, Argentina. Spey also holds an option to acquire a 100% undivided interest in Pocitos II and 20% interest in the Pocitos I lithium projects. Spey also holds interests in four lithium exploration projects located in the James Bay Region of Quebec. Spey has a 100% interest in the Silver Basin Project located in the Revelstoke Mining Division of British Columbia as well as an option to acquire a 100% interest in the Kaslo Silver project, west of Kaslo, British Columbia.
We love being friends and we love our friends and seeing our friends so much. On today's drive, Jenn tells us about her visit with a lifetime friend, Julie Moore! That gets us into chatting about a mug from The Dorothy Motel in Banff that was recently shipped to Ontario, and somehow that weaves into Jenn's wild order of slippers… you just wait. Amanda tells a few stories about her serendipitous meetings of new friends in Kaslo while house/dog-sitting for friends, and what happens on garbage day when you don't have a lid for the dumpster… some dynamic stories for the drive today! ---LINKS:Come follow along! @roadtripbuckleupWebsite: thesafehaven.coInstagram: @thesafehavenpodcastFacebook: The Safe HavenAll the good stuff: linktree/thesafehavenpodcastEmail: hello@thesafehaven.co
Discovering Nelson BC and the Kootenays Summer 2020 In this vlog, using Nelson B.C. as our base we take a little roadtrip around the Kootenays. If you love West Coast scenery then you are going to love this travel vlog. Join us as we drive through the mountains, beside Kootenay Lake. Our first stop was beautiful Coffee Creek. Fletcher Falls was our next destination: the falls and the view of Kootenay Lake was spectacular there. From Fletcher Falls we moved on to Kaslo. Unity Bridge, just outside of Kaslo is super adorable. We took a free ferry ride over to Harrop and drove to Proctor and then back again to make it back to Nelson BC for some yummy dinner.
Jay and I shoot the shit at his swanky apartment in Philly. We talk about Christianity as former believers, the bullshit that is today's culture, following your curiosity, not giving a fuck, and what life is like in Philly for Jay. Check him out on his website (jaykaslo.com) and his insta/twitter @jaykaslo.
In this episode we're joined by the brilliant Blair Enns from Win Without Pitching to explore his innovative approach to new business for agencies. He shares some of the fundamentals required to sell based on value to command higher prices and close more deals. We also discuss how the sales process can make or break your delivery process by setting precedents in the client relationship and so much more. About Blair Enns Blair Enns is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto and Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. He co-hosts, along with David C. Baker, and the podcast 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. Based in the remote mountain village of Kaslo, British Columbia, Canada, Blair lectures throughout the world on how creative professionals can win more business at higher prices and lower cost of sale. Resources from Blair: Win Without Pitching Blog: [CLICK HERE] The Win Without Pitching Manifesto Book: [CLICK HERE] Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour: [CLICK HERE] 2 Bobs Podcast: [CLICK HERE] Follow Blair Online: Website: [CLICK HERE] LinkedIn: [CLICK HERE] Twitter: [CLICK HERE]
On this episode I sat down with the owner head brewer Shirley Warne of Angry Hen Brewing in Kaslo BC.Tune in to learn more about the brewery and beersPodcaster Involved:Mike G of Pacific Beer ChatIntro By Conundrum – Website, Facebook, Instagram
We have a guest on the podcast! Ben and Diana invite Jay Kaslo into the studio to record a double podcast. Jay runs the Confusianity project which includes a podcast, YouTube channel, and Instagram. Jay and Ben know each other from high school in Germany and have reconnected recently over their common post religious interests. Ben and Diana will be on the next episode of the Confusianity that comes out on Wednesday, check it out! #ShareBears The Erotic Is an Antidote to Death - Esther Perel Stranger Things Season 3 Killing Eve
Blair interviews David on what each of the three levels of success in running a creative firm looks like. Links 2Bobs Episode 39 - "Replacing Presentations With Conversations" The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, by Blair Enns The Business of Expertise: How Entrepreneurial Experts Convert Insight to Impact + Wealth, by David C. Baker Built to Sell: Creating a Business That Can Thrive Without You,by John Warrillow Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour, by Blair Enns 2Bobs Episode 31 - "Mastering the Value Conversation" TRANSCRIPT BLAIR ENNS: David, it's been a while. DAVID C. BAKER: Has it? I haven't missed you all that much. Have you missed me? BLAIR: Since we've last recorded a podcast, I was listening to one that aired recently and it was talking about my first book is in its fourth printing. It's now going into its fifth printing and I realized that it just aired and we recorded that over a year ago. So if Marcus is digging into a backlog that far, that means we haven't been together for a while. DAVID: Yeah. And it's scary too because imagine how much our thinking has changed in a year? 'Cause you were wrong about so many things. BLAIR: That's an old joke, you need new material. DAVID: Okay, sorry. BLAIR: So since we've last recorded a podcast, I know they keep airing because we've got all this in the can, but you and I did an event in London and then we came home and then you and your wife came up to Kaslo and we celebrated. I was just looking yesterday at a photo of your wife and my wife in a bear den together on her birthday. DAVID: Right, I didn't want to go in it, it's why I took the picture. BLAIR: You're too smart. I took it from inside the bear den, you were outside. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: And then you went to Chile on vacation and then you've probably been in some other places. DAVID: Yes, I have. I'm kind of off the road right now. I head back out of the country on Friday but I've been back trying to get our 61 acre farm livable. So just a few minutes ago, if you'd seen a picture of me, I would have been covered in white from head to toe because I am still trying to figure out how to use a paint sprayer and I realized I have a lot of expertise to develop yet. BLAIR: That's why on a hike I was carrying the bear spray. Okay, so it's been a while since we talked. Today we're going to talk, I want to call it good, better, best but it's really the three levels of success in running a creative firm and I think you've broken it down into the categories of starting, existing and thriving. And you sent me an entire spreadsheet to help navigate this conversation. Things like utilization, positioning, financial, marketing, etc. All of these different things that should be true or should be happening or you should be aiming for at these three different levels of success. Do you want to just take a minute and talk about those three levels of success? Are there lines that delineate between starting and existing and existing and thriving? Well, I think there are. We'll find out I guess, right? But I tend to think in triads. And so as I'm getting a question from a client, I'll sometimes just play this mental game, are they starting out or are they existing or are they thriving? And there seem to be these three different categories. And then you can expand that and say, "Okay, what about financial performance? What about how they think about service offerings or how they think about positioning and how they think about management?" And so I think it's useful to think in these categories because it's not as if a single firm is all in the existing, the middle category. They might spread across different ones and just gives us an eye opening into what our world looks like from the outside. DAVID: I think it'll be kind of interesting to talk about. But you're probably going to let me know how interesting this is or not. If you rush me through these, that'll be a sign that it's not that interesting. BLAIR: Well, let's just see. Let's start with utilization which is the first thing on your list. DAVID: Right. 'Cause such an exciting word, right? Utilization. BLAIR: Yeah. So I'll just have a little nap here while you talk about utilization. DAVID: Like I said to you one day, I'm pre-interested. Okay, so starting would be subsidizing clients and the typical firm in a developed country is charging and getting paid for 42% of their time and they should be getting paid for 60% of their time. So most firms are in this starting category and they never really get out of it. It's more of a typical category. So there's some significant degree of underpricing and/or overservicing. And that's the first one, subsidizing clients. And then hopefully, we get to the point where we get paid for everything we're doing, that's the middle category of existing. And then thriving is package pricing where we're applying what you would call value pricing. Where there's very little corelation between what we're getting paid and the amount of time we're putting in. It's really more about outputs and accomplishments and so on. The thing that interests me about this and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this as well, is that most firms want to skip the middle step. So they're not getting paid for all their time and they want to jump right to value pricing without going through the middle step of getting paid for all the time that they're working. And some of this is influenced by this hatred that everybody has for timekeeping, but it's also driven by this sense that people have of they're being cheated. It's like, "My clients are not paying me what I'm worth and I feel rotten about that, I feel anxious, I feel resentful and I want to jump right past that and go straight to getting paid for more than the time I'm spending." So that's the first one, utilization. BLAIR: Well, I wonder if that leap isn't because they're not really thinking about value-based pricing in terms of getting paid for the value that they create but they see it as kind of a packaged way of actually getting paid for what they do. Does that make sense? DAVID: It does. So they're using a very advanced way of sort of eliminating this subsidization without ... Yeah, it kind of does. I feel like people, they have this resentment level about not getting paid for what they're doing but they don't really know how to solve it and they jump into different plans to solve it without really understanding all of them. This is what you've spent so much of your professional life doing in the last couple of years, is helping them think through. Like we did a podcast recently about the value conversation and all of those things. And in London when you and I were talking, I was listening when you were talking about practicing the value conversation. And it was so interesting for people, the light came on on their eyes. And I don't know exactly why but I feel like they need to at least go through this second phase first because it's like learning to walk before you can run and run before you can whatever the next thing is, leap I guess. BLAIR: Yeah. And I wonder about that. I kind of think if I were giving somebody who's starting out right now some advice, my advice would be to skip over that middle section of getting paid for what you do. But if I may, I want to back up a little bit and just talk about these three categories of starting, existing and thriving and let's just put some description around them. I think we can agree that in the starting phase, essentially you have a hypothesis and your hypothesis is that you have something of value that the market values and that maybe there's a business there. So you open your doors and you're essentially exploring your hypothesis. You don't know whether you validated or not. There's all kinds of fear and there's all kinds of experimentation and there's all kinds of hard work and you're trying different things and you're seeking validation. And I would say in the existing stage, you have validation, there's a business here. You're not going to go out of business tomorrow but probably you're earning like what you would in a job, maybe a little bit more. So it's okay, I have validation from the marketplace and then the next step is essentially optimization or getting ... Another way to look at it would be the third category which is thriving. Beyond existing, beyond earning what you would in a job. And I know I'm probably jumping ahead and maybe screwing up some of your things that you want to talk about here but we all have a sense of what thriving is and we all have a sense of what starting is. Starting is you were working with a hypothesis. Existing in the middle is I validated it. There's something here, now we need to take it to the next level. And thriving is the next level. Are those good enough descriptions for the three categories we're talking about? DAVID: Yes. BLAIR: Or would you change them? DAVID: No, I think they are good enough. What's interesting to me though, is that some businesses that have been around for 10 years are still in the starting category and they don't ever get to that other one. And those are the ones where I might go in and say, "Hey, just an idea here, but have you considered that maybe you shouldn't be running a firm? You could be making a lot more money working for somebody else, you'd be working fewer hours and you'd have no financial risk." BLAIR: And you'd be sleeping better at night. DAVID: Right, exactly. All those things. Most folks just sort of look at me and grin and say, "Yeah, I know all that but I'm willing to invest that much just so that I don't have a boss." You don't automatically go from starting to existing after you cross, say a two year threshold or something like that. There is some mentality that has to change on your part. BLAIR: Yeah. Okay, so you talked about the first point of how utilization is different in these three categories of starting, existing and thriving. You go from essentially subsidizing your clients to getting paid for what you do to charging based on the value that you create or package pricing. The next thing that you want to explore under these three categories is positioning. So how does positioning change? DAVID: And this is a little bit different than we would have talked about it probably 10 years ago maybe. You and I both noticed that that's changed in the marketplace. So in the beginning, you're usually an undifferentiated firm. So there are many viable substitutes for what you do. And most firms make this transition for sure, they go into the existing category. And in this phase, and I delineate this scientifically in the book, The Business of Expertise, you need between 10 and 200 competitors and then we can talk about what that means in terms of your prospects set and so on. How many prospects you need. But most firms don't go into that third phase there where there are no competitors essentially because of some process they have or some proprietary IP or some black box. That's where you see firms thriving and they're making so much money. It's not wrong at all, it's just that they really control their marketplace. And so, most people in this category are probably in this existing, the middle phase, and very few are at the undifferentiated and very few are at the proprietary IP side. I'm not sure what that number is, I'd be interested to see what you think. I would guess that maybe 10% of firms are in that high level, less than that maybe. BLAIR: I'm going to recap what you said here. So positioning-wise, when you're starting out, you're saying the firm begins as fully undifferentiated. You're basically saying yes to everything and taking whatever you can. And then when you get to the existing phase where you kind of validated your hypothesis, you typically have 10 to 200 competitors. And then in the thriving phase or stage, you say you essentially have no direct competitors because you have proprietary intellectual property. Is that right? DAVID: Right, a black box. Something that they just simply cannot get somewhere else. And that's built on the second phase for sure. You start at the 10 to 200 competitor phase but then you figure out some magic and you bring it to the marketplace. And that's where just the light comes on and everything just falls in place for you. BLAIR: I want to suggest the slightly different way to think about this. And that is at the very beginning, you starting out, when you have one client, your firm is highly specialized. DAVID: Specialized in what? BLAIR: You're specialized in the discipline for market, you're doing x for why, you have one client. And then I'll suggest to you that your second client is a lot like your first client. And it's often because that first client maybe you took that client with you from another firm or whatever. He was attracted to you for whatever reason. Your second client is a lot like your first client so you're a highly specialized entity. And then you think, "Oh my god, I have to mitigate my risk. I don't want to put all of my eggs in one basket. I don't want to pigeonholed." And then you broaden out. DAVID: And then you mess up your positioning with all these other clients. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: That's interesting, I never thought about that. That is really interesting. So the secret is to never have more than one or two clients and then your ... That's Blair's advice for the day. BLAIR: Okay. Now let's move on to the category or employees. How does your employee base change as you go from starting to existing to thriving? DAVID: This one is really fun to me because I think everybody will identify with this. In the first phase, you're hiring what you can afford. It's just like, "What? I can't pay more than this and I know the kind of expertise I would like, I just cannot afford it. So the primary thing is this is what I can afford and I'm just going to get the most capable person I can with this amount of money." That's the first phase. BLAIR: Yeah. We can all identify with that. DAVID: Yeah. And none of those people are still working for you but you still remember those days. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: And the second phase is existing. And here there's this flip that occurs in your mind and you begin to hire for what you need even if it stretches you financially and you grow into it. So it's not what you can afford, it's what you need and you've built this new assumption on the fact that you're tired of training people, these blank slates that come to you and infusing them with everything you know. But the firm never grows beyond that because who's smarter than you is getting hired because you can't afford them. So the second phase, what do I need even if it costs more than I really I'm comfortable spending at this point? The third phase is a really fun one. And that's where you are on the lookout for amazing once in a lifetime hires. And even if you don't need that person at this point, you go ahead and snug them because you're running your firm so well that it's not going to put you under to have an extra and actually a highly paid extra person on staff. And this is that third phase where you make the once in a lifetime hire every once in a while even when you don't quite need them yet. BLAIR: I immediately recall a number of conversations I've had with my most successful clients and I'm sure you do too. You've had the same conversations where you asked about a particular team member and they said, "Oh, that person came to me, I didn't have a job for them but I just couldn't believe there skillset. So I hired them and I created a job for them." DAVID: Right, exactly. That's exactly what we're talking about. And it's so fun to be at that point in your businesses' history where you can do that. It's such a luxury. BLAIR: Yeah. Let's talk about financial. You've got some financial numbers and I want to know where the hell they came from. First, why don't you walk us through them. When you're staring out, you should be earning what? DAVID: So this financial thing is about how much money you're making. And in the first phase, it seems like principals are making 160 to 200 in U.S. dollars and there's not much more beyond that. That's pretty much what they get. They may not even get every pay check, they may catch up sometimes or they may not, but they're making 160 or 200. If they stop and thought about it, they would say "You know, I could make more money somewhere else." That's the first phase starting. Existing, they may make the same amount of money. 160 to 200,000 U.S. dollar equivalent, but there's significant profit at the end of the year. And this builds up starting at their fiscal year and they may take out some quarterly or when they're getting ready to buy a boat or another house or whatever, but there is some profit. And then in the thriving, the final one, the third one, they're making 400,000. Now, we have to index this if there's more than one principal but there's 400,000 plus a bunch of profit. And there are not many ... Again, they're probably on a 10 to 20% of firms in this third category with all the things that we're talking about and especially here, 400,000 plus profit. That's where firms are really thriving. BLAIR: So I'm imagining the principal of a firm who's in the starting phase, they've been at this like 15 months, they're into their second year. They're still starting, they're still figuring it out and they're thinking, "Whoa, I should be making 160 to 200? When does that happen?" DAVID: Yeah. Where somebody who's making 400 says, "I can't remember when I only made that amount of money." People's expectations are so different based on what they bring to the table. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: But what principal could not make that and more as a key leader at another firm? It kind of gets crazy when you think about it. BLAIR: But are you saying if you're at the starting phase, let's say you're a year in and you're not at 160, what does that tell you? DAVID: Well, I think we need to make allowance for the fact that we're going to invest in our businesses. But if somebody's starting out and they don't have employees, it's hard for me to foul them. Anybody making less than 160,000 equivalent U.S. dollars, I have to search a long time before I find somebody making less than that. So it tells me that either you're really starting out and haven't figured out some things or your expectations around money are very different than mine are. Or you're really making some huge investments in the business and you'll grow out of that at some point. But it should signal that something's wrong if you're not regularly making that amount of money very quickly out of the gate. BLAIR: Yeah, okay. And we could do some math on that around utilization rates and hourly rates etcetera, to come up with something, but we won't. Let's keep moving. BLAIR: So the next category you have here is marketing. And when you're first starting out, how do you about getting new leads that ultimately turn into clients? DAVID: Yeah, most people don't do anything because they usually don't start with the blank slate. They usually start because some client has said on the Q.T., "Hey I want to work with you." And so they start with some promise of work. Or they're kind of the new kid in town and for the first, and I find that it's about three and a half years, that's about how long it last, they have enough referrals or just word of mouth kind of stuff happening. And then if things slow down a little bit, they'll do some cold-calling. That's what usually happens at this first phase and it kind of creates these bad habits for folks in the early days because it lasts for three, three and a half years and then it starts to tail off. Then we go into the second phase of existing where most firms rely on email marketing these days. Now you have some outliers who are doing different things but that seems to be the basic recommendation, email marketing. And it's still very effective and some firms are getting very wealthy doing that as their primary lead generation tool. But not many firms are really in the thriving category who are relying primarily on email marketing. They're doing something else, they have some notorious thought leadership and there are many things that fall in this category. They could have written a great book or they could be a great speaker who gets invited to different keynote conference opportunities or maybe they have a podcast or something like that, but it's moving beyond the email marketing. And so cold-calling, referrals at the beginning, email marketing and then they leave that behind and they have this luxury of moving to more of a notorious thought leadership platform. BLAIR: I love your choice of an adjective there, notorious. What do you mean by that? DAVID: Notorious as in hated? No, that's not what I ... What I mean is well-known I guess is what I mean. So it wouldn't count to have a podcast that nobody listens to or a book that nobody buys. I'm talking about well-known type of thought leadership. And like you talk about often, it's probably something that's singular. Like it might be a conference that you do or it might be a book or it could be a podcast. It's usually not a combination of a lot of things. You've just fallen into a groove, a pattern that fits your personality and your particular focus in the marketplace and everything is working well. And as long as you're disciplined and you still take risks with your thought leadership, then you don't ever have to go back to just doing email marketing like you used to. BLAIR: Yeah. And so you've got referrals along with cold-calling in the starting category, but I think when done properly, referrals follow you at every level. And at the thriving level, I would suggest referrals really do come back. But I think your point is that like in the very beginning, it really is just about referrals. The first client is referred to you or they were a client at the firm that you worked at, you took with you. And you said there's a three to three and a half year cycle for referrals. I don't know if it's referral-based but I've talked about this before. And one of the first patterns that I saw as a consultant is there's a seven year window. There's a point at which where roughly seven years where organic growth just stops. And you explained to me, your hypothesis was that's when you thought natural referrals quit working. And then there's school of thought around how you actually worked to cultivate referrals, that's an entirely different level. But I think we should probably do a podcast on referrals at some point because that's a topic in of itself. And I agree with you, it's vital early and then most people kind of let it go. But some of those firms that are really thriving, they have formalized how they get their existing advocate, loyal clients to refer other clients to them. DAVID: Yes, exactly. They're intentional about it. And the difference seems to me is that they bring their referral sources along with them. So as their capabilities change, they are providing the correct language to those referrals in an active way, so that the referral sources are given them even better business than they did in the past. That is something we should talk more about. BLAIR: Okay. Let's talk about fee billings per FTE. This is one of my favorite numbers that we often refer to it as AGI per FTE, which is ... Do you want to explain that acronym? DAVID: Sure. So AGI stands for Agency Gross Income. The rest of the world would say adjusted growth income but that's a very different meaning than what we mean by AGI in this industry, and it's basically your fee billing. And then if we define FTE equivalence, if there are nine full-timers and two halftimers, then that's 10 full-time equivalent. So the starting phase is less than $150,000 per full-time equivalent. So we have a 10 person firm, that means that their AGI is less than 1.5 million. There's some sort of a transition here that firms struggle to get beyond and they don't exactly know how to break out of that. It's a combination of all kinds of marketing and positioning and lead generation and confidence and all those things that we talk about quite a bit. But in this first phase, they're somewhere below this. The second phase is a really narrow band. It's really interesting. I can almost say on the phone, I can say to somebody, a prospect that I might be talking with, I can say, "Let me take a guess, you don't have to tell me if I'm right or not, but I'll bet your fee billings per full-time equivalent ..." And then I'll give them a number between 150 and 160. And this very narrow band is the second place they get stuck. And most firms, the vast majority, never get above 160. And the ones who thrive in this third category get above 160, and I've got clients that are even above a million, many of them above 450, 500. Now, you can't get there without value pricing obviously and packaging the work that you're doing with expected service offerings and so on. So those are the three, less than 150, 150 to 160, the big stuck point, and then above 160. BLAIR: So, again, I'm going to give you another way to think about this because when you say starting, that first phase or stage that we're talking about, I'm thinking about a solopreneur. And a solopreneur, if you're making 200, you're clearly billing more than 200. If you think of the solo creative person who goes out on his or her own, they're subsidizing the clients so they're not billing for all of the time that they're actually spending as you pointed out at the beginning. So they run into this maximum of how much they can based on the fact that they're subsidizing their clients. And it's probably around ... What do you think it is? Like what do you think somebody's earning, just say in kind of gross sales, before they have to hire that first person? DAVID: They probably should never hire anybody until they're at the quarter of a million dollar range, so about 250 I would think. When you hire somebody before that, you're really restarting the clock and now all of a sudden you're spreading this income that you've generated across more and more people. I don't see much connection between billings per full-time equivalent and the size of the firm. In other words, some of the most profitable firms are smaller but not always. So when I say starting, I don't necessarily mean the business is young, I mean they're starting on this path of entrepreneurial experience and success. So many firms could be 20 years old and they've never broken that 160 category per employee. So it's just something about like how do I get over this hump? And it may take people two years or it might take them 20 years or they may never get over that hump at all. BLAIR: Yeah. So you have these three categories of you're below 150 in AGI per FTE and then the middle category, where I see a lot of it too, you're stuck at 150 to 160. And I would say it might even be a little bit lower than that, 140 to 160. I don't know where the line is, you're drawing at 150 to 160. And then beyond that 160, once you tend to break free of that 160, then you kind of gain momentum again and it's easier to get out into the 200s and even 300s and that's almost always because you're moving to a value-based pricing. Is that right? DAVID: Right. Or you're very, very confident. But usually, yes. It's about value-based pricing. BLAIR: Yeah. All right, the next category is succession. So in a starting firm, it seems a little bit ironic that a firm that's in the starting category would think of succession. Because if you're just starting out and you're thinking of getting out, then something's not working therefore you don't have anything to sell, do you? DAVID: Well, again, I'm not talking just about chronology, I'm also talking about how successful they've walked this road of entrepreneurial success. And so many firms really are ... You have a 20 year firm and really they don't have 20 years of expertise under their belt, they have 20, one year periods under their belt. They don't operate like a 20 year firm, they just had the same one year 20 times, that's what I mean by starting. BLAIR: It's Groundhog Day 20 days in a row. DAVID: Exactly, right. And these are the firms where they're not just remarkable per financial performance and therefore nobody on the outside is going to be all that intrigued with buying the firm and yet the principal is tired. They're tired in part because of the lack of financial performance. If that wasn't the case, they probably wouldn't be that tired so they have to settle for either just closing the firm or getting almost nothing for it by selling to employees. That's that first starting phase of entrepreneurial success. DAVID: And then in the second one, in this existing phase, they sell or merge within the industry. And you and I have seen huge changes here. There aren't many firms who are selling to the holding companies because the holding companies don't have all that much extra money and those purchases are so typical and the principal is not that interested in it but that's what happens in this existing phase. And then in the thriving phase, they get rich by selling in a very nontraditional sale. So it might be a consulting firm that buys them or it might be a huge digital firm that buys them. Or they could sell themselves to a client or maybe a roll-up in some rare circumstances. So it's just interesting to think about these three different categories that firms tend to think about from a succession standpoint. I put this on the list 'cause I do so much succession work and I see people strange expectations about what the firm will be worth. And they have this very glorious ideas about what somebody else will be pay for the firm and I have to have an awkward conversation. It's like, "You know, this has been more of a lifestyle business for you. You haven't made a lot of money, you've not made a lot of profit, there's not much to sell after you leave." But that's fortunately not true of every firm. A lot of firms are very, very saleable these days which is great news for them. BLAIR: And it reminds me of John Warrillow's book, Built to Sell. It's a business novel and the owner of a design firm is fed up and he goes to his business advisor or his accountant and says, "Okay, I want to sell the firm." And the guy laughs at him and says, "You've got nothing to sell." DAVID: Yeah, a great day in his life to find himself. BLAIR: So he helps him navigate to building a business that is built to sell. It's actually a great book and well worth reading. DAVID: Yeah. All right, so I am going to do something here. Are you ready? BLAIR: I'm always ready David. What are you going to do? DAVID: Well, I'm going to flip this on you and I want you to come up with three categories around pricing. BLAIR: Oh yeah, that's easy. DAVID: Okay, well you should have some thoughts about this, you just wrote a book. So what are the three categories for pricing that you see out here? BLAIR: Essentially, you have three things that you can sell and I think the three categories really mirror perfectly your categories of starting, existing and thriving. In the beginning, you are selling time, you are selling the inputs of time and materials. And then when you get to the next level which you're calling existing, and I'll just say it's the next level in pricing, is that's when you're selling outputs of deliverables. So instead of charging based on the time, you're charging based on, I'll put in air quotes, the market value of something. And you're still counting your inputs of time and materials but you're essentially pricing based on what the market will bear and you're probably commanding a premium. The client is getting price certainty. So instead of saying it's going to be $200 an hour and we'll finish when we'll finish, you're making an estimation of the number or hours, probably a range, and then you're pricing it in the higher range and the incentives are for you to come in a bit below that. So your AGI per FTE is going to go up. You're trading a price premium for price certainty because you're selling the deliverables, the campaign, whatever the output is. And then the third level is when you let go of both of those things and you're selling based on the value that you help create. So you're pricing based not on the inputs of time and materials, not on the market value of what you think the market value is, that service or that output, but based on the revenue gains or cost reductions or other emotional forms of value that your solution will help to deliver. And very often when you do it properly, it's really almost fully untethered from the inputs of time and materials. So those are the three levels of pricing. First you're selling inputs, then you're selling outputs then you're selling outcomes or value. DAVID: So if somebody's in the first category of selling inputs, can they skip the second step and go right to value? BLAIR: Oh yeah, absolutely. DAVID: Okay. Oh, that's interesting. BLAIR: Yeah, and so we talked about the value conversation before and if somebody hasn't listened to that, they might want to go back and listen to that episode. Really, the big shift that happens when you learn to conduct a good value conversation is you completely let go of the solutions and if you're letting go of solutions, you're letting go of cost. So you're actually setting price before you even think ... And this is the trick that you've got to learn to do. Before you even think about what it is that you would do for the client. And when you're able to do that, when you're able to set price before you think about your solutions, let alone your cost, then you have made that transition to the next level. DAVID: I hope people will go back there and listen to that one. It's called "Mastering the Value Conversation," April 4th. That was a really interesting one. Allright, this was fun. BLAIR: Hey, I'm driving here, this was fun David. DAVID: No, I'll tell you if it's fun. If it's ... We should do one like: what's starting, existing and thriving to do a podcast together? What are those three categories? I don't think we want to do that. BLAIR: Oh god, yeah. Yeah, we're still starting. Hey, when we reconvene (we're going to record again in a few days) we're going to talk about the X factor. Now, I'm going to send you some homework on this, I'm going to ask you to think about your most successful clients and what did they have in common. And then we're going to talk about that in the next podcast. DAVID: Okay.
Sound of the Kootenays - Episode 1Feature Interview: Paul HinrichsPaul shares the story of his journey in the music industry, from being a young dedicated live music fan following touring bands like Dave Matthews Band and Phish through to his most recent position as the Kaslo Jazz Etc. Festival’s Executive and Artistic Director. Kaslo Jazz Etc. FestivalSponsor Feature: Introducing Sincerity SoundOwner and Chief Engineer/Producer Barry Jones gives an introduction to Sincerity Sound - a new audio recording studio located in the Slocan Valley. Sincerity SoundMusic (in order of appearance) *Links to artist websites and music available at Al Woodman.com(Intro) - JJNA 5.21.18 T7b (Brand new Kootenay band! Details coming soon!)Everything’s Gonna Be Alright - Deep Down Yonder"Sincerity Song" - Barry JonesJupiter - Shred KellyPossum (intro) - Phish - recorded live July 26 2013 @ the Gorge AmphitheaterSky - John Corrie Van BreugelWay Down Here (harmonica solo) - Al WoodmanArchipelago - Shred KellySharp Dressed Man (ZZ Top) - Melody Diachun - from the new album Get Back To The Groove (Way Down Here outro) That’s What Delete Is For - Melody Diachun - from the new album Get Back To The GrooveTotal Running Time: 1:37:19
https://entrearchitect.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/BEnnsHeadshot.jpg () Pricing Creativity What is it that we sell as small firm architects? Is it a pile of paper? A bunch of technical services? A legal process required to obtain a building permit? What we sell is a desired future state. Whether we’re working with commercial, institutional or residential clients, they have an idea in their minds about how they’d like their lives to be in the future. We’ve all experienced the moment at the end of the project when our clients finally get it and understand the value we provide. We need them to understand the value of what we do before we do it. This week at EntreArchitect Podcast, Pricing Creativity with Author Blair Enns. Background Blair Enns is the sand in the free pitching machine. Through his sales training program for creative professionals, https://amzn.to/2KMzwyJ (Win Without Pitching), he is on a mission to change the way creative services are bought and sold the world over. He is the author of https://amzn.to/2KMzwyJ (The Win Without Pitching Manifesto) and https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/pricingcreativity/ (Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond The Billable Hour). Blair lives with his family in the remote mountain village of Kaslo, British Columbia, Canada. Origin Story Blair lives in a small mountain village in British Columbia, Canada. He grew up in the center of Canada, in business side of the advertising and design professions. He began as an account manager and moved into new business roles as his strengths developed. He started Win Without Pitching as a consulting practice and a way to earn a living so that he could drop out of the advertising profession. One day, he realized his limitations in the business were going to take him out if he didn’t change them. He began to scale out and build a training organization in early 2013. Do you see a lot of creative and profit difference in your circles? When people start their own small firms as artists, you’re doing it for fun. Sometimes we delude ourselves to think the money will come one day, or that it’s not about the money. One day, you realize you’re tired of having fun and ready to make money. What do you do if you’re a creative professional who loves design and wants to make money? If you’re going into business for yourself, the business part is more important than the art. Get a business education. Instead of just being inspired and only focusing on the art; you’ll burn yourself out and be unable to find success. It’s about value creation for your clients. Learn how to select and shape good clients and good engagements, and your best engagements will allow you to bring your artistic skills to the table – always to the ultimate goal of delivering value to the client. You have something you want to do with every client you have, but it’s not just about you. Your focus is on your client and their different values. What is price discrimination? Different people are willing to pay different amounts for the same thing and your job is to let them. The reason they’ll pay different amounts is because the value to them is different. You have the license to charge as much as you want to. You may evaluate something as valued one way, where your client thinks it’s worth half that. What do you do in that situation? Offer options. If your client asks for a proposal, what you put forward should have options. Delivering one proposal puts your client a take-it-or-leave-it situation. They have a choice to make based on comparison, so enable and facilitate them to compare your options and figure out which is the best value. If they don’t like your option, they’ll go away and compare your proposal to other bids. Your clients are going to make comparisons anyway, so enable and facilitate those comparisons for them. With each...
Guest Blair Enns gives us a look behind the scenes of creating his new book Pricing Creativity. Blair's Bio Blair Enns is a 25-year veteran of the business side of the creative professions. In 2002, he launched Win Without Pitching, which has worked with thousands of creative professionals in numerous countries through direct engagements, seminars, workshops & webcasts. Blair is the author of "The Win Without Pitching Manifesto" and the forthcoming "Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour" Links Pricing Creativity Win Without Pitching 2Bobs Podcast Blair on Twitter Blair on LinkedIn Implementing Value Pricing: A Radical Business Model for Professional Firms The Curtis Creek Manifesto Transcript Jonathan: Hello and welcome to The Business of Authority. I'm Jonathan Stark. Rochelle: And I'm Rochelle Moulton. Jonathan: And today, we're very excited to be joined by guest Blair Enns. Blair is the founder and CEO of Win Without Pitching and the author of the Win Without Pitching Manifesto, and the forthcoming Pricing Creativity: Guide To Profit Beyond the Billable Hour. Did I get that right Blair? Blair: You got it right Jonathan thank you. Jonathan: Stressful :-) I am very excited and I [00:00:30] know Rochelle's very excited to have you on the show. We have just a lot in common, I've been following your work for years, we've read a lot of the same authors and we're super excited to talk about how you've taken this big idea, which to me started with the Manifesto, perhaps it had its roots before that, and turned it into a consulting business and then later a training business, and now hopefully, fingers crossed, a bestselling author. So, could we start off by just [00:01:00] giving folks a little bit of background about who you are and what you do now and then we can sort of delve into the history? Blair: Yeah, sure. And thank you to both of you for having me on the podcast. I'm really looking forward to this and happy to be here. My name is Blair Ends, the company is Win Without Pitching and I founded it back in 2002, early 2002. At the time, it was a consulting practice, a new business development, sales or new business development consulting to creative [00:01:30] firms, typically independent creative firms, and I had come out of about a dozen years of working in advertising agencies and design firms and thought I'd launch this consulting practice. So that was the first iteration of Win Without Pitching. And then over the years, beginning in late 2012, and I'm sure we'll get into this, I decided to shift the structure of the company from a solo consulting practice to a training company. So that's where we are now in late 2017, [00:02:00] early 2018. Win Without Pitching is about five years into its current incarnation as a training company. And for a few years; 2013, 14, it was both as I kind of played with training and had to make a decision about going one way or the other. So we've been a pure training company for about three years. It really feels like this business is about three years old, but really it's more like 16. Jonathan: Wow. And [00:02:30] before that, you were from the agency world, you were inside the agency world, yes? Blair: Yeah, I worked for some of the world's largest advertising agencies and some of its smallest design firms. I was a suit, I don't own a suit anymore. Although my latest social media profile pic has me in a suit. I had a borrow a tie from my 18 year old son for that photo and I own one jacket. But I was a suit for many years and then I moved to this little mountain [00:03:00] village in the middle of nowhere where we live now when I started the consulting practice. So there's this kind of shift in the personal life that was the impetus for the business change. And I had a Hugo Boss bonfire when I moved out here, got rid of all the suits. But I was a suit doing account services and new business at a very young age in the first ad agency I ever worked. When at I was 22, I was handed responsibility for new business. I wasn't great at it but I did have some natural skills at [00:03:30] it. So yeah, I came out of the account management and new business side of both advertising and design. Jonathan: Okay. So, how do you go from there to writing the Manifesto? Blair: Well, the Manifesto I wrote I think in late 2005, early 2006 so I had been running the consulting business for three or four years at that time. And the name, I think the of the business is kind of a fluke and I've been [00:04:00] told by some of my closest professional friends that, "Yeah, Win Without Pitching is a stupid name, you need to change the name." On some level, I think it is maybe not an appropriate, maybe not the appropriate ... There's something about the name that can sound a little bit schlocky maybe, like some sort of false promise, but on the other hand, that name has driven me to ... It's really a great label for how I've always thought about new business, [00:04:30] and it's forced me to come at the subject matter from that perspective that is really true to me. And I think that's really been the difference, whether it's been a consulting practice or a training company or a book that I've written, i's always coming from that win without pitching perspective. So the name came first, the business came first. And then in, I think it was, yeah, it was late 2005, I think early 2006, where I [00:05:00] was writing a piece. I've published an article, a blog post for years, for 16 years, either somewhere between weekly and monthly. And at the time, I think I was publishing closer to monthly. And I wanted something for the end of the year. So I tried on, I had this idea of like just wrapping up all of my philosophy into a few short pithy statements. And I was also trying on tone of voice. I'm a huge fan of Manifestos, [00:05:30] and I kind of collect them and I've read most of the big ones. I think the biggest, most important book ever written and religious people will be horrified at this, I think the most important book ever written might be the Curtis Creek Manifesto. And I won't say anything more about that, people can go look at it and think, "Huh? What are you talking abut?" Order it, give it to every 12 year old you know and you'll change the world. I was writing a blog post and it was trying on [00:06:00] a new voice, I was trying on a Manifesto voice. And at the time, and even for a few years after, it was the riskiest thing I'd ever written, just because the tone was so different. And I thought it was going to be taken as too over the top. Like it's almost the biblical [inaudible 00:06:14] We shall, etc. It's 12 proclamations, it's not chapters I imagine Martin Luther nailing something like this to the church door. So I was quite nervous when I hit publish. And then the response was really gratifying and inspiring, [00:06:30] because people were telling me that they had ... some designers that actually typeset it and put it on a poster and actually put it on their wall. And I kept getting feedback like that for a long time. So when it came time to write a book, and if you want to be seen as the expert in your space, then you probably should write a book. And I was feeling the pressure to write a book. But it didn't have a format, it didn't have kind of a narrative structure or I didn't [00:07:00] know ... Otherwise, it would just been a book of lists. And then I thought based on the success of that post, maybe I'm going to frame a book based on this. And I'm so glad I did. I'm really happy with this book, seven and a half years later. I'm surprised to say that I'm still really happy with this book. Jonathan: That's great. To have a shelf life it's that long, there's no reason it couldn't continue to grow. Nothing in it is really dated, it's completely ... Rochelle: [00:07:30] It's evergreen. Blair: Yeah. I set out to write a timeless book. And my intention for the book was I would create something that would outlive me. And so, there is nothing in it, as both of you point out, it's kind of evergreen content, there's nothing in there that will be dated. There's nothing about the design, the design looks like it was like dug up from a lock box and it could be from any time. In fact, one of the first things I did with this book, once I decided on the fact that it would be a Manifesto, is I [00:08:00] had to decide what size would it be. So I took a bunch of different books that I owned and ... I just had a sense of how the size of the book, so I took something that was the right thickness, but it was too large a format, and I cut it down. And I said, "I want the book to be this size." And this isn't the way books ... So I wrote to the size because I wanted a designer, somebody who maybe doesn't do a lot of in-depth reading, I wanted them to be able to read it on a typical plane ride; like on a two hour plane ride. I wanted [00:08:30] it to fit into a purse, into a laptop bag, on a toilet tank. And then so once I got the physical, I had the structure, this 12 proclamations Manifesto structure. And then I had the size, and then I hired a designer who when he's not doing his day job, he designs typefaces for Bibles. Jonathan: Nice. Blair: Yeah. I thought, "Well, for a creative audience, it either has to be really well designed or it has [00:09:00] to just be all about the words," and I wanted it to be all about the words. And I wanted it to be somebody who is fanatic fanatical about type. So I hired Brian Soy. His firm is called Aspire and it's not book design isn't their day job, but they do. In fact, they're just finishing up my next book, Pricing Creativity. But he's a nut about type. And I remember he came to a seminar I did in Miami Beach years ago, I remember walking down the main drag, is Ocean Drive, I forget, in Miami [00:09:30] Beach. And him just like pointing out all the art deco fonts and thinking ... in all of the hotels and buildings that we were going past. So the rest of us are in this conversation about something else and he's just going crazy over typefaces. Jonathan: Yeah. It's awesome down there for that. And it was a big success. It's how I heard about you. In fact, I know who told me about you, no, I take it back. So this is weird and this is, I think, perhaps [00:10:00] a source of some like infusion earlier, which is that I came across this as a blog post first. A friend of mine was, "Blair Enns, Blair Enns, Blair Enns." And he sent me a link to one of the, I don't remember which one it was, but it was one of the proclamations. And I was like, "Yes, yes, this is good. This guy knows what he's talking about." I didn't even realize for a long time that it was bound in any form. I was like, "Oh, this is just this free online thing," which I believe is still true. I believe people can still read [00:10:30] it online. Blair: You can read the entire book for free at WinWithoutPitching.com. Jonathan: Well, now I want the physical one. I want to feel it, put it on my toilet tank. Blair: Where it Belongs. Yes. Jonathan: So, you launched the book, and people are printing it out on their walls, I would count that as a big success. And I've seen a number of videos of you sort of giving [00:11:00] presentations, which I know came after that time because you reference the Manifesto in the talks. What was that, period? Do you do that anymore? Sounds like you're in a remote area now, so you probably don't. Blair: Yeah. No I do a lot of speaking. In fact, when my next book comes out on January 10th, I've set aside all of 2018 to just travel the world and speak in support of that book. And I didn't have, now that I'm the CEO of a training company and I don't coach or train in our program [00:11:30] anymore. I create curriculum, I work with my team, I take us into the future, I'm in charge of future value creation. I speak and I write. When I was a consultant, I wrote the book and it got me lots of invitations to speak already did pretty good on the speaking front. But it got me a lot of invitations to speak so I did a lot of lectures on the Manifesto around the world. But I was still running a consulting business. And if I'm not consulting then I'm not [00:12:00] sending invoices, and I'm not earning money. I've been fortunate in that I've always been paid well to speak. And what I get paid has increased over the years. I could probably earn a decent living just speaking if I wanted to. But the real money was in consulting. Now we're a training company and I'm not encumbered with that day to day training or operations of the business, I'm free to basically just go and speak, so that's that's a big part of it. And anybody who writes a book, what follows behind [00:12:30] that are a lot of speeches and nowadays a lot of podcasts interviews like this. Jonathan: I imagine it was tough. Well, was it a tough decision to switch from consulting to training or was it, you said you had sort of a shift in where you were living and the bonfire and whatnot. Were you excited to do that or was it scary, was it obvious? Blair: That was the scariest. I look the scariest things that you ever do, at some point soon after you look back on them and think, "Well, that was ... Why was [00:13:00] I so afraid by that?" But picking up our young family and moving to this little village in the middle of nowhere not, not really knowing how we were going to earn a living, that's how Win Without Pitching came to be, it was a necessity. I knew I wanted to kind of get out of the rat race of the city and the advertising profession at the time. Before I left, I was in a horrible job with a difficult boss, I'll say it politely, [00:13:30] and I was ruined for the advertising profession. And then, I was fired from that job, like I engineered my own dismissal, and that's another long story. I thought I would ... And I saw it all building towards a lawsuit. But as I was being relieved of my duties and handed my severance check, I thought, "I'm not going to sue you. I'm never going to see you again." After that I went to work for a really great boss and I was asked to build a satellite office. It had existed [00:14:00] but all the clients had left, to build the satellite office for another creative firm. And that was a great experience that that allowed me to fall in love with the profession again. But I had already decided we were moving to this village in the middle of nowhere, so I told the guy I was working for that I would do it for a year, a year turned into 20 months then I said I had to go. So we moved to this little village in the middle of nowhere and we had a bunch of little kids, we have four children. We had three at the time and the youngest was 6 months old. We had a fourth [00:14:30] a couple of years after moving here. So we were raising a young family and in the early days, Win Without Pitching, it was a lifestyle business. In the summers, it's a beautiful little village we live in on the shore of a 92 mile long lake, home to the largest strain of rainbow trout in the world. It's idyllic, it's as you imagine it. For years, I shared an office with a grizzly bear biologist and a bat biologist. So we really are in this beautiful little mountain village in the mile [00:15:00] of nowhere and it really was a lifestyle business in the early days. And then around 2012, my kids were at a certain age, they no longer really needed dad to be around a lot more and I was working more and more as a consultant. And in November of 2012, I found myself flat on my back with pneumonia in bed for two weeks and it was the fourth time that year that I had gotten some sort of sickness, just run down somewhere. And on three continents. So four times on three continents in one year, I just kind of run myself down as [00:15:30] I was trying to maximize this consulting model. And I had an epiphany while I was kind of recovering, I realized that my business model was trying to kill me, so I'd better kill it first. And that's what I decided to make the shift to. I decided to launch a training program. I recovered and I put together a 13 week training program, sent it out to my market, immediately sold it out. Then did another one, sold that out, did another one sold [00:16:00] that out. So that took me through to 2013. And then for 2014, I strung three programs together into an annual commitment, sold that out. And then I think by 2015 I decided that I couldn't do both. Now, I didn't come to the conclusion that a training business is better than a consulting business. Part of my journey was, I discovered value-based pricing and I realized that the way I was pricing my consulting engagements [00:16:30] and running my consulting engagements was contributing to kind of the stress on my health. I had productized my consulting services. You could do a two day session with me, which would cost X or could be like one day plus a bunch of remote consulting work. I'd package created three or four different packages and I'd put these prices on those packages. And everything I just described violates some of like my new rules of pricing. And I realized as I learned more [00:17:00] about value based pricing, I thought, "Okay. I either need to become a properly value based pricing consultant." By that I mean, I would look at every consulting engagement as a completely blank slate and dive deep into what it is that the client really wanted and how much value I could create, and then craft a really unique engagement that was specific to the client and the value in their situation and the value they were trying to create. So that every engagement would truly [00:17:30] be different and would be priced differently. If I wanted to earn the most money from those engagements, I felt like I needed to be able to say to my clients, "You know what, I'll get on a plane and I'll see the day after tomorrow." Because of where I live, it takes me a day to get anywhere. It sometimes takes me a day to get to an airport. I just couldn't do that. So I felt like if I couldn't properly value price my consulting engagements, then I really needed to go the other way and fully productize [00:18:00] my business. So that's the decision I made. I made the decision to go to a more scalable, productized service business and productized consulting business is a training company. So that's where we are today and it was really driven by the fact that I had kind of maxed out the consulting model the way I was doing it and I was a little bit limited by where I lived. And I felt strongly that I needed to go one way or the other and the easiest way for me to go [00:18:30] would be to go to scale up training company. I was talking to somebody in Austin, Texas about this the other day, somebody who is a consultant, and he was kind of trying on the idea that, well, maybe the evolution of all consulting practices is training companies. And I said, "Man, if I lived in Austin, Texas, I would be a consultant. I would not own a training company. If I had ready access to lots of different creative firms, where I could go in deep and help them more, I'm pretty sure in the short term, in the first five to six years for sure, [00:19:00] I would make way more money and have a bigger impact on a smaller number of clients." But I don't live in Austin, Texas. I live in Kaslo, British Columbia and it makes sense to build a training company. Jonathan: It sounds like, I don't know if this is just because of the compression of time, that we're compressing the timeline, but it sounds like there was a fairly high degree of certainty there based on a series of decisions that you made, particularly about moving, but it seemed like you were pretty clear on what to do, even though there was some fear. Blair: [00:19:30] Yeah I think so. I was doing a live podcast with my podcast cohost. I do a podcast called 2 Bobs. The number 2 Bobs with my friend and colleague David C. Baker, and we doing it live in London two weeks ago and in the Q&A afterwards, we were talking about how different we are from each other. He's very scientific in his approach and he said to me, he said, "You're not afraid of anything." And I thought, "Well, that's not true." But I get these ideas and I just will not be stopped. And I [00:20:00] think I've learned to lean into the fear. And if you know anything as you do about my selling approach, if there's anything uncomfortable in the sale, we teach well, lean into it, go into the dark places, embrace the awkward silence, say the things that the client won't say, the things that most people in that situation would not bring up. It's your job to bring it up. So I think I've learned that when you get these crazy ideas, lean [00:20:30] into them. As an example, I was a couple of years into both offering a training program and I was still consulting. And I was on a plane I was flying to Dallas and I, for whatever reason I decided, "This is my last. I need to pick one one or the other." I knew it was going to be training and I knew at some point it had to no longer consult. So I decided on the plane, "This is my last client." I walked into my client's office the next morning and one of the first things I said is, "I want [00:21:00] you to know this is my last client." And then I went on the plane on the way home I wrote a lengthy blog post called, I think it's called I'm Out. And I said to the world and nobody reads my blog because they want to know what I'm up to, they read it for the guidance. But every once in a while ... So I just published it for me. I wanted to make a proclamation to the world that that's it, I'm out of the consulting business. I'm not doing this anymore. Because I knew if I didn't say [00:21:30] it publicly, then I would probably start doing consulting again. So that's kind of the way I tend to operate, I come up with this idea and then I make this public declaration about what I'm going to do and then I think, "Oh crap, well, I guess I have to do it." Jonathan: Absolutely. You mentioned a couple of times Pricing Creativity, the new book. I have that thing highlighted to death. And I'm very much looking forward to talking to you about the pricing [00:22:00] details or the tools and the techniques that you talked about in there on my pricing podcast; Ditching Hourly. What appears about, in this context is what was your whole thought process about why to do this book, what your plans are for it, is this for you a 150, 200 page business card or is this something you actually want to see on bestseller lists as like an income stream. What are you thinking about there? Blair: Yeah. That's [00:22:30] a great question and I've found myself into some really great conversations about this. The Manifesto is the oversized business card. I refer to it as the Yes You Can book. I want people to read it, put it down. And as an early reader said in a review or somewhere online, he said, "I finished that book and it just makes me want to go wrestle a bear." So I use that line a lot. I want you to go feel like you can go wrestle a bear after that book. There's not a lot of how to end it. It meets a Manifesto, it's not meant to be a how to. [00:23:00] And the pricing book is a 50 ... so the Manifesto is just under 24,000 words, the pricing book is a 57,000 word manual. I wrote it as a manual, it's published as a three ring binder. There are different formats, you can get the ebook, you can get the ebook in the binder, you can get the ebook binder and four hours of video support. But I really wrote it to be like a desk reference, where you would read it once through, I hope it's enjoyable enough, that you can read [00:23:30] most of it through. And then, after that, when it comes time to put together your next proposal, price out your next proposal. I want people to reach out onto the shelf, pull it out, remind themselves of some of the rules and some of the tips, and then flip to the tool section at the back, and use those tools to actually craft their proposal. My vision is, this book will be on the desk or shelf of every creative professional in the world, who is charged with setting or negotiating [00:24:00] price. That is my vision. And I could have published it through a few different mainstream publishers. The Manifesto has generated a lot of interest for me from mainstream publishers, I could have published it that way. But it occurred to me, I'm looking at a bookshelf filled with about 25 books on pricing, and then probably another 25 on economics, most of them behavioral economics. I own all the books on pricing, and some of them have been so [00:24:30] transformative. Ron Baker has been such an positive influence on me on pricing. And the impact he's had on the professional world through his two books on pricing has been phenomenal. But I look at Ron's books and I think, "He should have made millions of dollars with these books." I know he's built a really lucrative career as a speaker, and I don't know if he does consulting or not, but as an author and a speaker, he has built a really good career. So it's not like he's not well rewarded, but I kind of value [00:25:00] conversation with the Global Creative Community without them knowing it, about the impact and value of this book. And I did some quick math and I thought, "I think I can sell between six and 10,000 copies of this book, which is a really big number given the audience and given what I'm charging for it. But I think over seven or eight years I kind of see ... Because I think it'll be bought in bulk and multiple copies from larger firms. I can see it [00:25:30] affecting the bottom line of 2,000 firms, I did the math. Okay, 2,000 firms, let's say, an average size of a million dollars, that's two billion dollars in revenue. I think and I know from anecdotal experience, that this is conservative. I think that the average firm that reads and implements this, can add at least 5% to their bottom line. If you're a million dollar firm, I fully expect that there's no reason why you can't add an extra $50,000 [00:26:00] in profit. And I've talked to Creative Principles to whom I have given pricing advice through our program, and where we just touch on it tangentially in our training program. The profit increase stories just from some of these pricing principles, are just, tenfold increase in profit, I've heard that a lot, doubled profit, tripled profit. I think adding a 5% increase that essentially represents [00:26:30] a 50% increase in most firms. Anyway, that adds up to like 100 million dollars per year, in additional profit for 2,000 smallish creative firms. If I were working as a consultant and these 2,000 firms were just one business, and I said to that business owner, "Listen, I'm pretty confident that I can add $100 million a year to your bottom line." What do you think fair compensation for me as a consultant [00:27:00] would be? The answer would be in the millions of dollars, right? Jonathan: Absolutely. Blair: But there's something about the package that is a book that says, "Well, it doesn't matter if you add hundreds of millions of dollars to the bottom line, if you sell it the traditional way, books should cost between 20 and $40, then you're only going to make so much money." Well, that's ridiculous. So, this book is not sold, it's not available on Amazon, it's only available on our website, Winwithoutpitching.com, go to Pricingcreativity.com, and you'll be redirected. [00:27:30] And it's the first pricing book in the world that is priced based on the principles in the book. When there are three different options, I'm not going to give away too much here, but it starts at $320 a copy. And then there's a $199 version. There's a $100 version. Each of those is fully guaranteed, if you buy at any level. And if it doesn't work for you for whatever reason, sent it back to us, we'll send your money back, no questions asked. So, it's fully guaranteed. [00:28:00] And I want people after they buy the book, I want them to go back to the pricing page on our website. And I want them to see after they read the book. I want them to see, how many of the pricing principles in the book that I've talked about that we actually used in the pricing of this book. I expect, based on the math that I laid out to you, I expect to earn a million dollars in this book. And I think that's fair for me as an author. If I were a consultant, I would view it as an [00:28:30] unfair price. Jonathan: Too low. Rochelle: So the million dollars, you see that coming directly from the book not from doing speeches around the book, not from doing training around the book, totally from the book? Blair: Yeah. Rochelle: That's incredible. Blair: And I had an author say to me when I was in London, he said, "You know, you don't write a book for the money." Well, sometimes you do. Jonathan: I think sometimes you do, I agree. I've written five or six books now depending on how you count it. And I've done through traditional publishers and [00:29:00] self published. And it's different. I think it's important to decide which way you're going to go before you write it. "What's this book for? Is this a business card? Am I staking out a claim to a particular aspect of authority in the world? Or is this a revenue move?" And I think there can be some overlap. There's certainly overlap in the results, but I think knowing which one you're shooting for before you start the project is pretty important. Blair: I [00:29:30] agree and I think probably too many business authors don't actually spend enough time thinking about what the goal of the book is, and therefore what the right way to publish it is or to market it. Like the purpose of this book is value creation, to create value for others, that's the purpose of it. I'm very happy with The Win Without Pitching manifest. I'm happy with the impact it has had on the global creative profession. And I can extrapolate into the future and imagine the impact that it will have with [00:30:00] the long term, and I'm very proud of that. And I have the same expectations, but in different avenue, same expectations for Pricing Creativity book. I really expect this to be the standard in the global creative firm community for many years. I don't think it's going to be timeless, as timeless as the Manifesto, but I expect it to be the standard, to be on people's shelves, and more than the Manifesto, which gets people inspired and gets them believing that there [00:30:30] is another way. This is really the here's how to take those principles and the Manifesto and turn them into real income, real profit for you and your firm. So, yeah, the oversized business card is out there, this is the thing meant to follow up on that, to drive more value creation and obviously, create value for me the author. Jonathan: I totally agree with that. I think the Manifesto was a rallying cry and Pricing Creativity is more of a [00:31:00] playbook, or it's funny that you chose the physical format that you did, because it does remind me of old time software manuals or cookbooks, or it earn and I think it also breaks the way you pointed out earlier as a sort of preconceived notion of how much a book costs. And it's like "Well, this one's a little different." You don't even have to believe the value proposition of the book necessarily, you just look at it and you're like, "Okay, this is different. This is not your regular business book." Blair: If you think of [00:31:30] the training that we sell, so we sell a term of training for anywhere between 2,000 and $15,000, depending on how it's delivered, but the content is essentially the same. And when I started writing this book, for the longest time I thought there was going to be a training program version of it. If you buy the ebook, the manual, which has the added tool section in it, and an advance review copy that you've read Jonathan, doesn't have that tool section in it, but the manual [00:32:00] has it. And then four hours of supporting video around it, you're essentially buying training, so it looks like an expensive book, but it's actually cheap training. And so, we've decided we're not at least for the next year or so, we're not building training around them, around pricing. Our training continues to be around selling, selling The Win Without Pitching Way. We also have some stuff on positioning and regeneration, but we're really a sales training organization. So, this is really deeply discounted training on pricing. [00:32:30] If you look at it that way, it's cheap. If you look at it as a book, and some people will look at it as a book and be outraged at the price, it's expensive. Rochelle: But it's this wonderful integration of the idea of a book in an online course. A lot of people are complaining about online courses now, because you're not getting enough deep content. And I like how you put both of them together here. Blair: Thank you. Even our training program we go out of the way to say it's not an online course. This is [00:33:00] coach led training in classrooms, our coaches have more than 10 years of experience of selling The Win Without Pitching Way, because they were clients of mine more than 10 years ago and have 10 years ... So, and I have nothing against online courses, they are just a lot of them out there, and if you put something into the package of an online course, the price drops. It's like an online courses now, it's now encumbered by the same kind of the limitations of the package as a book is, if you buy [00:33:30] a book on Amazon. So, we're trying to break that paradigm too. Jonathan: It's fascinating, I could talk about pricing all day of course. I think you mentioned the 25 pricing books on your bookshelf, I think I have the same because ... In Pricing Creativity, the first section, I'm not sure, I think you had a different name for it, but the first sort of region of the book is, for people who are maybe considering buying it, it is like a crash course [00:34:00] in the best books on pricing that are out there. And you sort of skim across the service and pull up things that are important to this specific kind of reader, which I think is critical because I can't think of any of the pricing books, even implementing value pricing. None of them really speak down to a tactical level to a particular kind of profession. I find when teaching people some of these, let's be honest, these are pretty abstract concepts, [00:34:30] very, very intangible and tough to believe. There are like an optical illusions almost. And when people are new to these ideas, they need someone, the first couple of times at least, they need someone to be like, "No, no, go like this." And that, go like this, whatever it is, is different from vertical to vertical or it can be. This is why, I think for the right kind of reader, someone running an ad agency for example, or creative or design [00:35:00] agency, it's very, very actionable, which I think is going to earn a place on the desk of ... Like you said, I wouldn't be surprised if this was on the desk of every creative owner across the world. Blair: Certainly, we're not going to hit everyone, but that is my intent. And again, I'm traveling in support of that and I appreciate your point of view on the book, because you've identified what I've really tried to do in that first section, which [00:35:30] is called Principles. I really I'm trying to bubble up like the best of pricing theory from most of the books. And a lot of the best pricing books are heavy in theory and a little bit difficult on the application. Ron Baker's Implementing Value Pricing, I'm much a fan of his. Not only the knowledge, I've never met Ron, but we've corresponded. He just absorbs, his capacity to absorb and synthesize information is awesome, [00:36:00] and he's also an excellent writer. I would read anything that he's written, but when I read Implementing Value Pricing, which is his second book after Pricing On Purpose or Pricing and Purpose is the theory, Implementing Value Pricing basically builds on that. You can just read his second book and skip the first one, because he does kind of a recap of all the principles. And he gets into some great stuff, even some level of detail on implementation that I don't. But it is as I read those, a friend of mine said and I talk about this in the book, he [00:36:30] said, "You should write a book on pricing." and I said, "Oh man, there are some great books on pricing, the world doesn't need another one." He said, "Well, your clients aren't going to read those books." He's right. The owners of the typical creative firms, especially people who see themselves as creative first, and kind of price or sales people, business people second, they're not going to read those books. I needed to deliver the principles in a very interesting way, not go too deep into it, and then get right to [00:37:00] do this. So, the next section is, rules, six different rules, six things you always do when you're pricing. And then the section after that is the lengthier section, it's the tips and that's meant to be specific situation, specific guidance for a specific situation. Crafting your high priced options, crafting your low price options, making the margin in the middle. Dealing with retainers, final negotiations with procurement etc, etc. I imagine people read the first two sections and then when it comes time to craft their proposal, they'll go to the back, [00:37:30] the tools section has a quick review of the rules, and then they'll flip to the section in the tools, to get the specific nugget for the thing that they're building for that one client. So, yeah, that's how I've tried to write the book, and also I come from the world of sales. The reason, I talk about this in the book, the reason value based pricing fails in most creative firms, in fact most professional firms, it breaks down at the value conversation. And that's where the theory [00:38:00] of pricing meets the actual reality of selling. I know from my own experience, you cannot become an effective pricer, if you do not at the same time work on your skills as a salesperson. The third one would be negotiating, so selling, pricing and negotiating, it's really hard to be good at pricing if you do not also tackle selling and negotiating. And that's one of the perspectives [00:38:30] that I tried to bring to the book. Jonathan: Definitely, definitely it comes through. So, we're going to hug it out here. I think it's a great book, I think people who are in this space, it's going to be worth every penny. We're running a little long on time, so what I'd like to do is, ask you what might be kind of a hard question, I know this is really big on your radar right now, but I'm wondering, what do you see beyond this? And the reason I ask is [00:39:00] because you have an amazing post, I think it's called No Exit or No Exit is in the title about, never retiring. And how that changes your focus about the business and all of that. So, I'm wondering have you had that sort of head space to even think beyond this at all, Does this still fit into that public declaration? Blair: Yeah. So the post is called A Mission With No Exit, and that's when I realized from a couple of different sources that, and just seeing in my own clients [00:39:30] what the pattern that I saw is, when you get to a certain age like 55-ish, in some principles, maybe a little earlier, maybe a little bit later, but certainly, by the time somebody is nearing 60, they quit making brave decisions in their business. And it's because they have one eye on the exit, and I realized there are few things that damage a business more than the principle of starting to kind of slowly extricate herself from the business. And I just saw this pattern over and over again, and then this is an [00:40:00] idea I first heard from Dan Sullivan, the founder of Strategic Coach, a coaching organization. I have been in for my own professional development and will be in again, I'm not currently in it right now. But early on in their program, they just disabuse you of this idea, that you're ever going to retire, and the rallying cry is effectively die with your boots on. So, I bought into that early on, and also the idea that you'd never sell. Like you come from the software space, and where in the design world, the design world [00:40:30] is changing so fast these days, because the worlds of design, business consulting and software engineering are all coming together. And look, we don't even have agreed on what the names for this is right, now but it's a really exciting time. But one of the things that's going on, is the design is taking a lot of its cues from tech these days, and in Silicon Valley and the tech world, you see a lot of like spinning up and exiting businesses. I' not going to try to make a moral judgment on that other than to say, [00:41:00] that does not appeal to me. But I think that I see some owners of design businesses think that the proper thing to do is like, build this business, spin it up and exit it. And a lot of sales people like to open a sales conversation with the principle of the business that they're trying to sell to, with the question, what's your exit. I think it's such an insulting question, the implication that you should have an exit. Because I think if I could take away from our listeners, those who own businesses. [00:41:30] If I could take away from you, your right to retire and your right to sell your business, I guarantee you the implications are, that you would start doing today all of the things that you've been putting off. Including things in your personal life, you would arrive at a work life balance now. You would start taking vacations now, you would make the difficult decisions around positioning your firm, about the clients that you work with, about the people that you work with, about having a strong number two in place so that you can free yourself up to do [00:42:00] the more meaningful things, both in the business and in the life. You would structure your day to day so that you're doing things that you love and you're energized by, rather than kind of wading through these undesirable things, with this crazy idea that there's some sort of payoff for all your sacrifice, that all your sacrifice now will lead to a payoff in the future. That's a dangerous idea, and I would just love to disabuse everybody of that notion. So, I talk about that in the post A Mission With No Exit. I do this talk around it's called the [00:42:30] Five Constraints. That's the first constraint, I'd say, if I could impose this on you I would. So in terms of my business, I've got visibility into years of my business, and my plan is, I have no plans to retire, I have no plans to sell, I plan to die with my boots on. I do recognize I'm 51, I do recognize that once you're 70, I don't know where the age is, where the line is, but at some point, people, the way, the advice that they're likely to [00:43:00] take from you is different. Your role needs to change as you age, I know that. But I have lots after this, so much is after this. I'm so excited about what's after launching and pushing Pricing Creativity out into the world. I could live three lives and I would never be finished with the things that I want to do in this business. Rochelle: Hear, hear. Jonathan: Amen. Well, that's a fabulous place to wrap up, I think. Where can people, where's [00:43:30] the best place for people to find out more about you online, Blair? Blair: I'm at Winwithoutpitching.com, if you go to Priceandcreativity.com, that will take you to a page on the Win Without Pitching website. I'm Blair Enns on Twitter and also LinkedIn. I don't use other social media. For years I've been saying, I'm not convinced I'm going to stay on twitter much longer. But I am on Twitter now and I'm on LinkedIn now. And you can find me at Winwithoutpitching.com, where you can learn more [00:44:00] about the books and the training program. And if you want to reach out, you can do that through the website. Rochelle: Awesome. Jonathan: Very good. Well, dear listener, that is our show for this week. We hope you join us again next week for the Business of Authority. Bye. Rochelle: Bye. Bye.
Top Saskatchewan and Canadian bureaucrat Thomas Shoyama dies. Thomas Shoyama was born in Kamloops, British Columbia on September 24, 1916. Shoyama graduated from the University of B.C. with economics and accounting degrees. However, the racist climate prevented him from working in his profession. For example, the 1935 decree of the B.C. legislature read, “Be it resolved that this house go on record as being utterly opposed to further influx of Orientals into this province.” Instead, he worked for the Japanese newspaper New Canadian. After the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour in 1941, Shoyama and the newspaper were relocated to the deserted town of Kaslo, B.C., one of five towns used as internment camps for Japanese Canadians. Shoyama joined the Canadian Intelligence Corps near the end of the war and left in 1946 as a sergeant. While visiting Saskatchewan, he heard CCF Premier Tommy Douglas speak. With Shoyana’s education and smarts, the Saskatchewan government was happy to hire him and by 1950 Shoyama had moved up the ranks to be one of the top bureaucrats in the province. When the province became the first to create Medicare, Shoyama and colleagues drafted the appropriate legislation. When Ross Thatcher’s Liberals took power in 1964, Shoyama was one of 70 Saskatchewan bureaucrats to take top jobs in Ottawa. Between 1974 and 1979, Shoyama rose to the top as Canada’s deputy finance minister. In 1980, he made his way back to B.C. to teach at the University of Victoria. In addition to many awards, Shoyama became an Officer of the Order of Canada in 1978 and received Japan’s Order of the Sacred Treasure for his contributions to the Japanese Canadian community in 1992. Shoyama died on December 22, 2006 in Victoria. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
Access to broadband internet in rural Canada is spotty at best. However, much depends on it. From emergency communications, to economic development projects, to social cohesion, internet in rural areas can open up a myriad of opportunities. In this episode, we explore everything from the history of broadband in rural Canada, to current situation, to community-based efforts to provide broadband access. You will hear from Greg Lay, former mayor of Kaslo in BC, Bob Annis, former director of the Rural Development Institute at Brandon University in Manitoba, Wayne Kelly a researcher currently working at the RDI, Meghan Wrathall, a student at Brandon University, and Dr. Christopher Horsetief from BC who shares a personal story about the importance of broadband internet access in a rural emergency.
TransCanada Transpondency Part 49 - Kooteney Lake an audio travelogue of sorts Camping at Kooteney Lake Provincial Park. Adam hits the highways in search of meteor, stops in Kaslo, and onto Davis Creek campsite. He does some more kayaking and blathers about mining towns and dynamite, blah blah blah...Stream of consciousness. Music: 16 Tons by Tennessee Ernie Ford
In this episode we talk with Silvio Lettrari from Kaslo Sourdough about sourdough, fermentation, gut health and his new product, sourdough pasta. https://www.pastafermentata.com/
Don Johnston, the Liberal candidate for the Kootenay–Columbia riding in the October 19 federal election, brings serious credentials to the table in his bid to upset a race that’s much closer now that Nelson, Kaslo, Salmo and some surrounding areas have joined the riding. Johnston was born and still lives in Nelson, and has held leadership positions at major organizations, including as the CEO of the Columbia Basin Trust from 1999–2005. Johnston is bound to be a factor in the election. Conservative support is down in B.C., and the Liberals are poised to take votes from the Conservatives with their first strong candidate in this riding in two elections. Listen you our Sept. 13, 2015 interview, and read the full story on www.revelstokemountaineer.com.
LIGHTSPEED MAGAZINE - Science Fiction and Fantasy Story Podcast (Sci-Fi | Audiobook | Short Stories)
“What do we call this thing?” Erm Kaslo said, gesturing to the smooth opaque walls. “It's not a spaceship.” Diomedo Obron tapped the green leather-bound tome he was studying. “Testroni's Impervious Conveyance, it says here.” They were inside an object that had looked to Kaslo like nothing so much as an oversized version of the silver dome that a butler would whisk away from an aristocrat's meal. It even had a large ring on top — a ring that was now grasped by the talons of an honest-to-goodness dragon. | Copyright 2015 by Matthew Hughes. Narrated by Paul Boehmer.
LIGHTSPEED MAGAZINE - Science Fiction and Fantasy Story Podcast (Sci-Fi | Audiobook | Short Stories)
Back in Obron's workroom, Kaslo told the wizard his theory that the reason their enemy had sent a fire elemental against them was because he wanted the fiery spirit to seize the noubles the op had originally acquired from the murderous thaumaturge, Asrat Gozon. “Fire cannot harm them,” he finished. | Copyright 2014 by Matthew Hughes. Narrated by Paul Boehmer.
LIGHTSPEED MAGAZINE - Science Fiction and Fantasy Story Podcast (Sci-Fi | Audiobook | Short Stories)
It was too late in the day to start back to Indoberia. Kaslo tried to find ways to busy himself about the castle, but his thoughts would not leave him alone. Finally, he went up to the flat roof of one of the larger towers and leaned against the parapet as the planet's sun sank below a horizon no longer broken by the Commune's skyline. In the opposite direction, the stars were coming out, but Kaslo saw only a handful of the glittering orbitals that used to stretch in a sparkling, glinting arc across the night sky. | 2014 by Matthew Hughes. Narrated by Paul Boehmer.
LIGHTSPEED MAGAZINE - Science Fiction and Fantasy Story Podcast (Sci-Fi | Audiobook | Short Stories)
The estate of Phalloon the so-called Illimitable was in most respects much like that of the budding thaumaturge Diomedo Obron, Erm Kaslo's new employer: It had a large, solid house, some remote outbuildings, lawns and a lake, clumps of mature trees, and an all-enclosing wall. What made it different, Kaslo saw as he surveyed it from a hill in the middling distance, was a rocky prominence that stood in the estate's northeast corner. Narrated by Alex Hyde-White.
On tonight's show I featured a few more summer festivals. All in early August, they take place in Kaslo,BC Comox,BC and Deming, WA. Road trip anyone?I also had a lovely chat with Vancouver's own Kate Reid, who's celebrating the release of "Queer Across Canada" on June 8 at the Rogue Folk Club. katereid.netIt's a warm and breezy evening here in Point Grey (UBC Campus), hope it's lovely wherever you might be. Thanks for listening and please keep in touch!val folkoasis@gmail.com
Tonight we lightly scratched the surface of the many (many) musical offerings happening around our province this long weekend. Travel from Coombs to Comox, Kaslo to Rock Creek, and back to West Van -- all without the tolls, sunburn, or kids throwing up in the station wagon.. Take care out there and come back in one piece! As always, thanks for your support. From the "Best Place On Earth",val folkoasis@gmail.com
Song 4 - Live at The Mussel Inn (New Zealand), April 2008.... www.jesserivest.com
Song 4 - Live at The Mussel Inn (New Zealand), April 2008.... www.jesserivest.com
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