Podcasts about Crested Butte

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast supports bears, quadrangles, and liberal interpretations of The Iliad. Sign up for the free or paid newsletter to get updates on none of these things. Thank you for supporting independent ski journalism.Welcome to the Storm's short-form, news-focused podcast. Don't worry, I will still write newsletters too. Paid subscribers can leave a comment in the article below, or by joining The Storm's chat (also below). I'll respond to some comments in the next episode, which is scheduled for Monday, Sept. 14.The Zoom transcript (click “transcript” above for the Substack transcript, which will zoom to any point in the video when you click on the associated text block; timestamps below DO NOT MATCH THE VIDEO)Stuart Winchester: Welcome to The Storm! I'm your host, Stuart Winchester. It is September 10th, 2026, and we have some big, big news in Ski World today.00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:14.000Stuart Winchester: So one of the things that I focused on since launching the storm in 2019 is the rapid.00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:30.000Stuart Winchester: Exponential growth in US based multi mountain ski passes and one of the biggest icon pass today released five new partners for the 2026 to 27 season. So I'm gonna break those down for you.00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:46.000Stuart Winchester: I am going to talk a little bit more about IndyPass and some of their partner shuffles. Then we are going to be joined by IndyPass owner, Eric Mogenson, who will give us a breakdown on all things happening with Indy, Black Mountain, and Entebeni Systems.00:06:46.000 --> 00:07:01.000Stuart Winchester: reader reaction, but I want to jump right into Icon Pass. Icon hits us today with, as I said, 5 new ski areas, 3 are full partners, and those… which means 7 days on the Icon Pass.00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:06.000Stuart Winchester: 5 days on the Icon Base Pass. All 3 are in Asia.00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:13.000Stuart Winchester: The first is Matarau, Japan. That will be ICON's 10th ski resort in Japan.00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:28.000Stuart Winchester: And then, Icon, last year, was the first U.S.-based pass to add a ski area in China, and Icon adds two more today, though they're nowhere near the ski area that it added last year. They are sort of close.00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:47.000Stuart Winchester: to each other. So, we're gonna break those down first, and then ICON added two mountains to its two-day tier, uh, which it calls Bonus Mountains, which ICON insists are not ICON Pass members, uh, but I insist they are, because you can access them with your ICON Pass. Therefore, they are on.00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:53.000Stuart Winchester: the Icon Pass, no matter what Altera tells us. So, let's start with Montreal, Japan, and if you're on…00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:55.000Stuart Winchester: The…00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:04.000Stuart Winchester: If you're on the video, I'm going to share my screen here because we're going to do a little visual helping.00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:10.000Stuart Winchester: All right, so let's take this away. All right, so the first one I want to break down.00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:12.000Stuart Winchester: is…00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:26.000Stuart Winchester: Madarao, Japan, and I've actually written about this ski area before, because they were an IndiePass member, and this is the article that I wrote back in 2023, when Madarao joined IndiePass, and Indie's been a big leader in.00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:27.000Stuart Winchester: Bye.00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:40.000Stuart Winchester: building out a network in Japan. So, the ski resorts in Japan are interesting. I've not skied there, but I've been there in the summer and ridden the lifts around.00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:45.000Stuart Winchester: And the skiing is very much like a mix of…00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:58.000Stuart Winchester: The Cottonwoods and New England. And what I mean by that is, if you're looking at the screen here, you can see the stats on Mattarau. 512 inches of average annual snowfall.00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:12.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, but not a lot of vert, 1,444 feet, and as you can see from the trail map, if you're looking here, it's not a big trail footprint. So, what I mean when I say Cottonwoods is the snowfall, and when I say…00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:29.000Stuart Winchester: New England, I mean the size. They tend to be not huge vert, sort of compact. If they do have a lot of vert, like the Jacuba Valley ski resorts that are on Vail, they tend to go, uh, kind of straight up and be side by side. You don't have a lot of the mega resorts as you would have.00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:40.000Stuart Winchester: in North America, or especially in Europe. So, it's good that the passes are all building density in Japan, because the ski areas are not…00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:43.000Stuart Winchester: This is not a place that you would go to necessarily.00:09:43.000 --> 00:10:02.000Stuart Winchester: like Vail Mountain and spend a week, or like Whistler. Another thing I want to note about Japan, you can see here that Matarau has some glade zones marked. In a lot of cases, skiing off-piste or in the trees, even though that's what Japan is known for, in a lot of cases, my understanding is that that's pretty heavily policed and forbidden.00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:17.000Stuart Winchester: So you really have to research your ski areas before you go over to figure out which ones will actually allow you to go off-piste, which is what most of us want to do, right? If we're coming from North America, we're going there for the big powder. Japan is a little more of an on-piste tradition.00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:21.000Stuart Winchester: a little bit more like Europe. So, I…00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:33.000Stuart Winchester: there's… to underscore the scope of what we have now available to us in Japan as U.S.-based pass holders. So, with the addition of Madarao today.00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:49.000Stuart Winchester: Now, 53 ski areas in Japan have joined the Epic, Icon, Indy, or Mountain Collective Passes. And I actually, I want to show you something I have that's really cool. So, I have this gigantic chart, and it's kind of…00:10:49.000 --> 00:11:04.000Stuart Winchester: it's kind of hard to navigate, but I'm slowly making it a little bit better. And so this is a chart that's variously called a bunch of different things. Right now, I'm calling it the Encyclopedia Britannica. Sometimes it's been the Passmaster.00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:17.000Stuart Winchester: 5,000. And I just kind of change the name whenever I want, but the link is always the same. And what I've… it's a really slow Google Sheet, and I definitely need a better platform, but if you go, there's all these tabs.00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:33.000Stuart Winchester: Down at the bottom, and again, this is where it's nice to have the video, so you can see what I'm showing you here. So I have all these tabs. One of the tabs is all MegaPass ski areas. So I have this divided up, and these are just little tables that pivot off the main table, so all the stats are up to date.00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.000Stuart Winchester: So first, I have this…00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:42.000Stuart Winchester: chart here with all ski areas that are on any U.S.-based pass, and we'll talk about that a little bit more in a second.00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:43.000Stuart Winchester: Then I have…00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:59.000Stuart Winchester: all U.S. ski areas, then I have New England, I have Japan, so let's pause on Japan for a moment. 53 ski areas, 11 Epic, 10 Icon, 32 Indy, 1 Mountain Collective. You can see all the stats down here. Again, not big.00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:16.000Stuart Winchester: skiable acre footprints, and really, Japan measures things differently than North America. They tend to measure snowpack rather than inches of snowfall. I did find a good average annual snowfall chart on Powderhounds, which is a great site that I'll talk more about.00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:25.000Stuart Winchester: for international research of ski areas. But if you see these acreage totals, you know, there's really nothing much.00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:35.000Stuart Winchester: Here's Niseko United, it's 2,100 acres, that's 5 ski resorts combined, right next to each other. Rasutsu is, uh, is 2,000, but most of these are under…00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:51.000Stuart Winchester: 500, so you really prepare yourself for that. It's one place, I think, Japan, where it would help to get a guide. Everything tends to be pretty cheap once you get on the ground. In Japan, the lift tickets are nothing, so having someone to show you around and show you where you can go under the ropes.00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:57.000Stuart Winchester: is a good idea. And, you know, I want to jump ahead to reader feedback for a moment. So I had…00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:14.000Stuart Winchester: this comment from Allison Wood. She said, I look forward to seeing your future efforts. I know there's enough in American skiing to discuss, but I'd be curious if you would further discuss European Alps destinations. It seems to be growing in popularity due to competitive pricing versus U.S.00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:28.000Stuart Winchester: Western resorts. A week at Big Sky appears to be the same price as a week in Switzerland for those in the Eastern USA. The answer is absolutely yes. I do want to cover the Alps and Japan and all of these international destinations more.00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:43.000Stuart Winchester: I don't have the personal on-the-ground knowledge base with those ski areas that I do with the U.S. ski areas, so I'm reaching out to my contacts in Europe, in Japan, who know these resorts intimately, and I'm gonna bring them on the show to try to help us make sense, because if you go back.00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:47.000Stuart Winchester: We go back to the Encyclopedia Britannica for a second.00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:49.000Stuart Winchester: You'll see that…00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:52.000Stuart Winchester: The, uh… if I can get to it…00:13:52.000 --> 00:14:05.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, so Japan has 53 ski areas, Canada has another 55, and most of us can sort those out easily enough. The harder ones is Europe. I mean, Europe, there's 61 ski areas, and sometimes a ski area in Europe is, you know.00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:21.000Stuart Winchester: 10 ski areas that put together are as big as all the ski areas in Utah. So I really need some help to break those down. But that's the great thing about this new format is that it will allow me to bring in more voices more frequently since there's more frequent shows. All right.00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:38.000Stuart Winchester: Icon also today added two ski areas in China, and the best site to just get the basics of any ski area in the world is, I've found, skiresort.com. They have a profile of every ski area. They tend to keep it up to date. I don't know who runs the site.00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:54.000Stuart Winchester: I would like to connect with them at some point, but this is really my go-to for… so this is Betahu, I'm sure I'm pronouncing that wrong, one of the ski areas that ICON added in China, and they have all the basic information, the elevation, which is not high, it's all in meters, obviously, out of the U.S.00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:01.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, what I really like is the lift breakdown and the trail map. So, the… the thing about the ski areas in China.00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:07.000Stuart Winchester: is just like everything else in China, they're pretty much brand new. I read this really interesting.00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:13.000Stuart Winchester: quote in the New York Times several years ago, and the notion.00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:16.000Stuart Winchester: was basically China…00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:31.000Stuart Winchester: stayed pretty much in the 19th century for all of the 20th century, and then it got to the 21st century in about 10 years. So, you go there, there's high-speed rail, everything's new, there's new buildings. The ski resorts are new as well, and you can see this in their lift fleet. I mean, this…00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:34.000Stuart Winchester: You know, they have a…00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:49.000Stuart Winchester: six eight-person gondolas, one six-person gondola, two high-speed six-packs, three high-speed detached quads, no fixed grip lifts at all, and then you take a look at the trail map, and again, this is probably a little more like Japan, where these are.00:15:49.000 --> 00:16:03.000Stuart Winchester: a little bit smaller ski areas than what we're used to, uh, as far as the Mountain West. But, you know, it's all very well interconnected. I would expect a lot of on-piste skiing. You know, with a… with a immature ski culture, I wouldn't expect a lot of glade stuff.00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:19.000Stuart Winchester: to be developed. Kind of talking on my rear end, to be honest, because I've not skied in China or even been to China, but these are my perceptions with the different ski cultures I know. I'll try to track down someone who knows better. Here's the other Icon Pass resort, Lake Songwa Resort, and I want to make…00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:30.000Stuart Winchester: that we kind of have an Aspen-Crested Butte situation going on here, so Sangua and, uh, this other one they added, uh…00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:49.000Stuart Winchester: Beidou, there, as you can see on this Google map, they're 24 miles apart in the mountains, but it looks like about a 4-hour drive, so there's not really a road through the city. It's the same kind of deal with Aspen and Crested Butte, where they're pretty close, but it's a long drive around. These are seasonal roads that Google doesn't know about, so it's about a 5-hour drive in the winter.00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:51.000Stuart Winchester: I believe. So…00:16:51.000 --> 00:17:03.000Stuart Winchester: We have these, and then, if you want to go to China to experience skiing, Icon gives you the means to do so. And then, Icon added…00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:16.000Stuart Winchester: to their 2-day tier, which again, they're saying is not IconPass. I want to talk about the 2-day tier a little bit in general. So, Icon started this 2-day tier.00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:23.000Stuart Winchester: last year, and I think what they were trying to do is mirror what Vail did.00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:37.000Stuart Winchester: with its feeder ski areas and all these little places that are bought all over the country, Mount Brighton in Michigan, and Afton Alps in Minnesota, and Wilmot in Wisconsin, and all the resorts around Cleveland.00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:49.000Stuart Winchester: and you know, Alpine Valley. And then there's the names escaping me. Boston Mills, Brandywine. I just skied there and did a write-up on it. So so yeah, they're.00:17:49.000 --> 00:18:04.000Stuart Winchester: Vail bought up all these ski areas. Well, Icon, instead of doing that and buying, has added two days only on the full Icon Pass, which is currently $1,449, uh, two days to 11 different ski areas around the country.00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:19.000Stuart Winchester: It's been growing that list. Silver Star was one last year, and it converted to full Icon, but right now, if you're on the screen share, you can see the 11 that are currently on the Icon Pass two-day roster. So we…00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:23.000Stuart Winchester: had today the additions of Cabarfay Peaks in Michigan.00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.000Stuart Winchester: And…00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:37.000Stuart Winchester: In Wyoming, we had snowy range. So Caberfay Peaks is actually, it's an awesome ski area. It's one of my favorite ski areas. I grew up about an hour and 15 minutes from there.00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:40.000Stuart Winchester: And with Cabot Fay, it…00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:55.000Stuart Winchester: It's a really fun place. They're constantly building it up. And what the cabaret you see today is very different than the cabaret that existed a long time ago. It basically used to be a two mile sprawl of rope tows and starting in the 1980s.00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, the families that owned it dug up from the bottom here.00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:07.000Stuart Winchester: and added to the top. So they went from a couple hundred vertical feet to 485 vertical feet, and it continued to…00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:18.000Stuart Winchester: expand, and they have another expansion in the works over here on Green Mountain. Should be coming 27-28, and I'm gonna have Tim and Pete Meyer from Calgary Fay Peaks on next week to talk about that a little more.00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.000Stuart Winchester: And then we have…00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:36.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, it's Snowy Range, Wyoming, and Snowy Range might seem like a little bit of a weird one, but Snowy Range is actually very logical. They've had a long-standing relationship that's in southern Wyoming. It's not, it's only a couple hours from Steamboat. They have a long-standing relationship with Steamboat.00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:51.000Stuart Winchester: to a snowy range season pass for 300 and some dollars this year. They changed that to half off in a 3 day icon session pass, which is good at Steamboat and several other mountains. And now, if you have a full icon, you would also get 2 more days at Steamboat.00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:54.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, or you would actually get 2 days at Snowy Range.00:19:54.000 --> 00:20:00.000Stuart Winchester: if you were, you know, wanted to escape the crowds at Steamboat one day. So, we are gonna…00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.000Stuart Winchester: Come back to…00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:16.000Stuart Winchester: IndyPass in a moment. Actually, I have one more IndyPass update, then I'm gonna go to Eric. So, Mission Ridge and Blacktail in Washington have left IndyPass.00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:17.000Stuart Winchester: And…00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.000Stuart Winchester: Hold on, let me just…00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.000Stuart Winchester: So Eric, I'll be right there.00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:30.000Stuart Winchester: We'll get to Mission to Blacktail in a minute. I'm gonna bring Eric in.00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.000Stuart Winchester: And I'm going to stop my screen share.00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, Eric?00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.000Erik Mogensen: What's up, man?00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:57.000Stuart Winchester: How you doing? Joining us now is the director of IndyPass, the founder of Entebeni Systems, and the operator of Black Mountain, New Hampshire. Eric Mogenson is a good friend of the storm, and he joins us now from where? Where are you, Eric?00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:05.000Erik Mogensen: I am, uh, calling in from Black Mountain, New Hampshire, our new home, and I'm up at the Alpine Cabin.00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:18.000Stuart Winchester: I want to start on the Alpine Cabin. Tell us what the Alpine Cabin was when you arrived at Black Mountain and what it has turned into from what it is and from a revenue standpoint.00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.000Erik Mogensen: Yep.00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:34.000Erik Mogensen: Yeah, so, um, I spend the first 8 to 10 hours of my day working with our engineering and product teams, and most of it is in front of a computer or on the phone, but by 5 PM I try to be up here on the mountain every.00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:52.000Erik Mogensen: night. Like, doing trail work, on the excavator, snowmaking, lift work. But I keep a desk up here in the summer. Couldn't keep a desk here in the winter. Um, but I do keep a desk up here so that when I have an idea, or I want to come write something down, or I want to watch a YouTube video, or do something, this place is super productive for me.00:21:53.000 --> 00:22:11.000Erik Mogensen: It's like my peaceful, happy place in the summer. In the winter, there is nothing peaceful about this place. This, this place rages, uh, European style. So, when we took over Black Mountain, the Alpine cabin, the credit card receipts from the Alpine cabin the year before.00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:22.000Erik Mogensen: were $38,000, uh, for the season in sales. Um, and the year after, our first year that we took it over, it was over $300,000.00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:29.000Erik Mogensen: Um, and then our second year, it was over $600,000, and most of that comes down to champagne.00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:38.000Erik Mogensen: But don't look at champagne as something you drink. Champagne is something that you use to celebrate. And so I think.00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:50.000Erik Mogensen: The long-winded answer to your question is, is the Alpine cabin is truly a place to celebrate the sport and culture of skiing, and people are definitely holding on to that.00:22:50.000 --> 00:23:03.000Stuart Winchester: It's an amazing space, and if folks aren't familiar with Black Mountain, that's the main double chair to the summit right behind you, and it goes right over the alpine cabin. It's a party scene, and it's a lot of fun.00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:00.000Erik Mogensen: Oh, yeah.00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:20.000Stuart Winchester: Going from $38,000 to $600,000, 20X in revenue, I mean, Eric, that's the kind of revenue stream that could change the path of a lot of small ski areas. Is that replicable, do you think, at some of these smaller family-owned ski areas around the country that.00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:25.000Stuart Winchester: are really tied to old revenue models and just need a little spark.00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:32.000Erik Mogensen: Yeah, I don't know if you can scale the champagne necessarily, but you can definitely scale.00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:51.000Erik Mogensen: the focus on the culture of skiing. And I think that's really what the independents do so well, is that, you know, the wood fireplaces smell authentic, the people are very authentic, the ski trails are authentic, they're weird, they're quirky, the lifts are slow, right?00:23:51.000 --> 00:24:06.000Erik Mogensen: Those a lot of people look at those things. We've been programed as skiers to see those things as liabilities. They're actually our biggest assets. And so, yeah, the Alpine, you know, the Alpine cabin was a little 200 square foot patrol shack.00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:11.000Erik Mogensen: that sold some, you know, beer and hot dogs.00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:21.000Erik Mogensen: But we never looked at that as a liability. We never looked at that as, hey, we need to go build a 20,000 square foot mid-mountain lodge, take on a ton of debt.00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:32.000Erik Mogensen: Um, we really looked at it as an opportunity, and I think every single small ski area has that exact same opportunity to focus on the authenticity of the product that they deliver.00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:48.000Stuart Winchester: There's been a ripple effect, too. I mean, what can you tell us about skier visits before and after you purchased it? Because Black, for background, for people who are not familiar with Black, the reason you own Black is because they announced they were closing on Facebook. They said, we're done. The skier has been open since 1930, whatever.00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:57.000Stuart Winchester: said, we're done, this was 3 years ago, and you said, no. And you tried to find a buyer, looked for a year, uh, and decided to buy it yourself. So, so…00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:03.000Stuart Winchester: You took a dying skier, what did the skier visits revenue look like when you got it, and what do they look like today?00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:15.000Erik Mogensen: It was about $700,000, $750,000 in top line revenue when we bought the whole ski area. Yeah, including the $32,000 in hot dogs and beer at this cabin.00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.000Stuart Winchester: That's the whole ski area.00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:12.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:16.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:27.000Erik Mogensen: Um, so it was the entire ski area. I don't quite know what the skier visits were. Um, we know what the ticketed visits were, but I would guesstimate that the skier visits were somewhere between, you know, 10 and 15,000.00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:20.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:43.000Erik Mogensen: Um, in our second year, we took it to $2.5 million in top line revenue. Um, we've surpassed $5 million, uh, here in our 25th or 26th month. And skier visits, you know, all in, including employees and the whole thing, right about 55,000.00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:48.000Erik Mogensen: So it's been a big turnaround. It's been interesting, learned a lot.00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:50.000Erik Mogensen: And.00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:56.000Erik Mogensen: I think this is 100% doable by most of the smallest areas on the planet.00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:02.000Erik Mogensen: You just have to realize that if you want a different and better result, you have to take different and better action.00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:05.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I mean, you proved me wrong, because I, you know…00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:16.000Stuart Winchester: I thought Black had maybe just had its time, because it's surrounded by two Vail Own Mountains and Cranmore, which is a high-speed lift. Sunday River is right down the road. Uh, you have intense competition from Epic.00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:26.000Stuart Winchester: and… and Black Mountain is not an especially snowy mountain, like, say, Smuggler's Notch, we'll talk about in a minute. I… I didn't know if… if it had enough aura.00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:38.000Stuart Winchester: But it seems like you've either tapped the aura or created it, and really turned it around, and really given me a lot of hope that a lot of the ski areas that we see around the country, that…00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:45.000Stuart Winchester: Seem to be up against this modernization curve, they can't quite get ahead, might be able to take other routes to get there.00:26:45.000 --> 00:27:00.000Erik Mogensen: Yeah, and I think, too, Stu, it's worth noting, like, yeah, I'm proud of what we've done here, but there's a lot of really good operators out there that have done this, too. You know, having grown up in Buffalo, which I'll call, like, the Eastern Midwest of the Midwest.00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:00.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:10.000Erik Mogensen: Right? There's really well-managed ski areas that focus on the food and beverage, that focus on the authenticity, um, that drive a ton of other revenue.00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:23.000Erik Mogensen: Um, that are creative, uh, in that way, and I think we just have to be accepting of those things. We have to be accepting of them, we have to share what works, uh, share what doesn't work, and collaborate, um.00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:29.000Erik Mogensen: And and then we'll be fine. We'll be fine. These little skier is have a huge advantage.00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:39.000Erik Mogensen: in the fact that they are… they are run by authentic and passionate people. That… they… they are… they are run…00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:46.000Erik Mogensen: not as a profit center. Um, and yes, they need to be profitable to be sustainable and have reinvestment, right? But…00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:51.000Erik Mogensen: These little ski areas have such a remarkable advantage over some of the big areas.00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:57.000Erik Mogensen: and and how they're managed and what their direction looks like. We just have to take advantage of it and talk about it more.00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:06.000Stuart Winchester: this is just the beginning of the story, too. All right, let's switch over to Andy Pass, and, you know, my questions around Black, when you were initially taking it over, were…00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:24.000Stuart Winchester: how many retro ski areas does New England have room for in a market? Like, Mad River Glen has crafted its whole image around being this retro ski area. You know, they groom, they make snow up to 2,000 whatever feet, the single chair is a 1940 whatever, but they rebuilt it in 2007, so…00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.000Stuart Winchester: It is a well-maintained place.00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:42.000Stuart Winchester: as sort of like a museum. It's… it's… it's… the facade is old school, and it skis that way, but really, it's… it's been well tended to. Smuggler's Notch is another one of those that feels like 1960s, around 1960s haul lifts, including.00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:57.000Stuart Winchester: One of the longest in the country, the Madonna lift. Uh, and I saw black in that same mold and said, okay, how many of these do we have room for? But Smuggs is, at the end of the day, a awesome ski area, and you added it to IndyPass. I mean, how big of a victory is that for New England skiers?00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:03.000Stuart Winchester: to now have Smuggs, Jay, Waterville, all these ski areas on the one pass.00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:11.000Erik Mogensen: I mean, look, you've got… you've got Smogs, you've got Jay, you've got Bolton, you've got Cannon, you've got Waterville, um.00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:28.000Erik Mogensen: we've really leveled the playing field in the East, and it's exactly what we intend to do in other places of the country, and also around the world. Uh, and I think what we're proving here in New England, there's been a lot of focus with IndyPass in New England over the last two years, and a lot of that has to do.00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:44.000Erik Mogensen: With Black Mountain and our move and our things there. But what we're proving we can do here, we are going to replicate in other markets. There's no question in my mind. And I think what we're going to replicate is the fact that you don't have to be epic. You don't have to be iconic.00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:50.000Erik Mogensen: to be a really stable, well-earning business. You can be part of an independent group.00:29:50.000 --> 00:30:09.000Erik Mogensen: and still push and plow forward, and compete. So, you know, and I… look, I don't judge a ski area by its vertical. Don't judge a ski area by how many high-speed lifts it has. I think that's the mistake that we keep getting pulled into in skiing. And our… it's the mistake that we make as well as operators, and we…00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:54.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:16.000Erik Mogensen: we pass that mistake on to the consumers, right? Bigger is not better, it's just bigger.00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:33.000Erik Mogensen: Faster is not better. It's just faster, right? More lifts. Sure, that sounds great, but you have to pay for those lifts as well. And so that is going to there's that money doesn't just come from the sky that that money is going to be passed on to the consumer.00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:41.000Erik Mogensen: And the more and more we continue to do that, the more and more expensive and exclusive skiing's gonna become. So, again, I'll bring it back to…00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:51.000Erik Mogensen: One of the greatest advantages these places have are being small, are having slow lifts, are being independent, are being authentic. And that's exactly what Smugs is.00:30:51.000 --> 00:31:01.000Stuart Winchester: However, SMUGS also has 2,600 feet of vertical, 1,000 acres of skiing, and 322 inches of average snowfall. The numbers do help.00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:08.000Erik Mogensen: They do, but I'll leave the numbers to your spreadsheets that I can barely understand at this point.00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:03.000Stuart Winchester: The numbers do help, though, it's offline.00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:10.000Stuart Winchester: Well, that makes two of us and probably everyone else.00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:11.000Erik Mogensen: Those will speak for themselves.00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:16.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so having Jay and Smugs on there is an awesome combo. You know, I think that…00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:28.000Stuart Winchester: Indy and Doug before you, when Doug… I know Doug's still heavily involved, but the founder of the Indy Pass, Doug Fish. I think you have done a great job of building these little nodes of skiing.00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:44.000Stuart Winchester: around the country, and now around the world. So the… the donut hole has always kind of been Colorado, Utah, Tahoe, and that's because that's where Epic and Icon logically went. Those are the three biggest ski markets. But I want to talk a little bit first about the Midwest, where.00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:59.000Stuart Winchester: Indy built a really nice network, and you have a lot of ski areas in the Midwest. You have… 37. Uh, you've had some big departures this year. Lutzen, Granite Peak, and Snow River, run by Midwest Family Ski Resorts.00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:16.000Stuart Winchester: Went over to Icon, and Lutzen is, for the listeners, biggest ski area in Minnesota. It skis like a New England ski area. Granite Peak, you know, lots of high-speed lifts. Charles Skinner really turned that place from a dump into something nice. And the Snow River's on the come up. It's in a nice snow belt in Michigan.00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:19.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, you know, how much…00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:27.000Stuart Winchester: Did you see those as drivers of IndyPass sales in the Midwest? And how concerned, if at all, are you that they departed?00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:41.000Erik Mogensen: Well, look, let's… let's talk… I mean, the moose in the room here is that that… that loss sucks for us. Like, there's no way around it. Um, it… it… it's a bummer. It stings. Uh, I really like Charles Skinner. I really like Charlotte. I think they're both.00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:34.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:57.000Erik Mogensen: really great operators. They're very, very smart. They're very, very sharp. We had a we had a great call around when we kind of showed them what the revenue was in their last season, and we talked through it, and very, very amicable. I've always relied. Have some great, you know, dinner conversations with Charles.00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:12.000Erik Mogensen: And and I think they're great. They they have to make a move. They made a business decision to go to Icon and Icon makes that very, very, very attractive. You know whether or not that initial sales pitch.00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:29.000Erik Mogensen: translates into the long-term vision? I don't know. I firmly believe that, you know, Midwest skiers are some of the most authentic and purposeful, you know, skiers on the continent, and they'll figure it out. I think we have lots of options, there's no question.00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:38.000Erik Mogensen: But none of them are going to be quite like those Midwest family resorts. And so we'll have to see what happens. It stings, but I don't.00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:42.000Erik Mogensen: What I've really learned about Indy is that.00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:47.000Erik Mogensen: Our our strength is in the diversity of of.00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:56.000Erik Mogensen: the resorts that we've put together. It's not on a… it's not on a single one resort, or a single resort operator. Um, so…00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:01.000Erik Mogensen: I hate losing resorts, but I'm never afraid to lose them and/or replace them if necessary.00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:12.000Stuart Winchester: So, when they go to ICON, there's a couple different tiers for ICON. So, Midwest family went to the traditional 7-5 tier of 7 on full ICON, 5 on ICON base. Today.00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:19.000Stuart Winchester: I kind of announced that Cabaret, a former IndyPass partner that actually just left Indy, was a founding member in 2019.00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:32.000Stuart Winchester: left for Icon. That news just broke. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that. Buck Hill similarly left Indy for Icon today, a couple of years ago. Is that too new to process, or what are your thoughts on Cabra Fact?00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:48.000Erik Mogensen: Yeah, I think it's exactly the same where, you know, we, we, you know, Cabrifay is a great ski area. Um, we're sad to see them go. We, you know, look, they're independent for a reason. They get to make their choice. They've made their choice. They're going to go to Icon. The consumers can make their choice of where they go and where they want to.00:34:48.000 --> 00:35:05.000Erik Mogensen: they want to spend their time and money. You know, we're going to fight as hard as we can to drive as much value for the operators and the consumers as possible. I can tell you, we had some people that had left for that icon two day product that now want to come back because of the payout.00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:04.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:22.000Erik Mogensen: Or lack thereof. So, look, none of this is static. One thing I can absolutely guarantee everybody on the pass and everyone listening to this is, is this is going to happen every single year forever. You're going to have people come, you're going to have people go. And we're all going to think it's way more consequential.00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:11.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:33.000Erik Mogensen: than it actually is. The reality is, is that indie sales for the last 7 seasons continue to go like this, and we're directing more and more.00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:39.000Erik Mogensen: revenue, meaningful revenue to these independent resorts. And that's not going to stop.00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:43.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. The, uh… another place you have…00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:45.000Stuart Winchester: Good.00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:55.000Stuart Winchester: cluster is the Pacific Northwest. Mission Ridge and Blacktail, which are jointly owned, recently announced that they left, and I reached out.00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:57.000Stuart Winchester: to…00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:59.000Stuart Winchester: Mission Ridge.00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:06.000Stuart Winchester: COO and GM Matt Neubauer, and I just asked him, you know, what's going on, and this was his email, this is a quote.00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:15.000Stuart Winchester: Mission Ridge's agreement ran through the end of the 25-26 season, and we declined to seek a new one. Being independent means making the calls we think are right for the mountain long term.00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:32.000Stuart Winchester: So, that's basically echoing what you just said, the mountains will make the right decision. Uh, Blacktail's situation is different. This is a continuation of the email. Uh, they reached out to establish a new agreement before the old one ended and did not get engagement on it. Indy did reach out after passes, went back on sale September 1st, but by then, Blacktail had moved on.00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:42.000Stuart Winchester: and was preparing for the season ahead. So that was the rationale that I have for Matt. He didn't want to talk about it further publicly, but that was his on-the-record statement.00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:59.000Erik Mogensen: Yeah, I, I, you know, look, Stu, I, I think as good as it is for your ratings, you know, I, we're not gonna hang out every, every scary as, you know, laundry and every single conversation. Um, I would disagree with how that was had. I think, I think one of the greatest things about India is we have.00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:55.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:09.000Erik Mogensen: 300-plus resorts around the world. One of the hard things about Indy is that we have 300-plus resorts around the world. It's a lot of contracts to manage, it's a lot of things.00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:19.000Erik Mogensen: I could, like, tell you from the ski area operating, um, perspective, like, I feel everything's nice and chill all summer, and we're doing really good, and then all of a sudden it's, you know.00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:35.000Erik Mogensen: September 1st, and it's like, wow, we got a lot to do in the next 60 days before we make snow. And I think every single ski area operator runs through that. Uh, and there's a lot going back. Stu, sometimes I have to go look at your spreadsheets to understand who's on the pass.00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:52.000Erik Mogensen: That's why we usually give everything to you ahead of time so that you can, like, count them up and do the math and do everything. So it's hard. But I would say, that team at Blacktail is world class. Jesse is and is incredible. We've I've always had a great relationship with Jesse.00:37:52.000 --> 00:38:08.000Erik Mogensen: We'd welcome them on the pass. I don't think that that's changed. And I think that Blacktail and Mission Ridge are two very different ski areas. And I'm really fascinated and hopeful that they figure out a way.00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:10.000Erik Mogensen: how to make the whole thing work between the two of them.00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:28.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, you still have a really nice set of resorts out there with White Pass, and 49 Degrees North, and Mount Hood Meadows, and Bluewood, and Brundage, and Tamarack. And Tamarack's interesting, because so Tamarack, and I want to clarify this, I've actually gotten a lot of inquiries about this, people emailing me telling me my charts are wrong.00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:43.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, which… which happens, you know, they're… they're big and… and, uh, unwieldy, so I get things wrong, but that's… they're always a work in progress. But, uh, they're telling me Tamarack's not in the past because they joined Icon today, which… which obviously they did. Uh…00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:46.000Stuart Winchester: So what's going on with Tamarack? Are they on Indy?00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:59.000Erik Mogensen: Tamarack's on Indy, um, you know, we're excited about Tamarack, we've always been excited about Tamarack. Again, Scott, really great operator, um, super smart guy, great ownership group.00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:13.000Erik Mogensen: You know, I think we could probably comment on that a little bit further. But you know my job is not to speak for these resorts, Stu. My my job is to support them, and there's a difference between supporting them and speaking for them.00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:08.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:20.000Erik Mogensen: So, I'll always support them, and what Tamarack decides to do and where they decide to sit is good, but.00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:23.000Erik Mogensen: I'm comfortable saying that Tamarack's on Indy.00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:37.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, in general, you know, when Buck Hill joined the Icon 2 Day last year, you said adios. I think that's what was my understanding from a distance, correct me if I'm wrong. What was different about the Tamarack situation? Why are you making the exception for Tamarack?00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:52.000Erik Mogensen: Look, I think, look, Icon's aggressive. They're aggressive. They're trying to add as many people as they possibly can to that two-day pass. You know, I think that there's a lot of promises on that, and I think they have a very aggressive sales team.00:39:52.000 --> 00:40:08.000Erik Mogensen: Which is which is good. They're they're, you know, trying to replicate what Indy has done. So we'll just have to see what happens. But I would say that I would I would say that, you know, I have a I have a good relationship with a couple people over in that organization.00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:15.000Erik Mogensen: And I think they're trying to figure out what they're going to do. But there's no question that we're in, you know, pretty intense competition right now.00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:09.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.000Stuart Winchester: All right, let's…00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:32.000Stuart Winchester: wrap up on that. Let's talk about Snow King, because the Indy Pass, you know, part of the reason the Indy Pass is able to grow so fast, from my point of view, was Doug had this great insight that the ski areas that Epic and Icon were overlooking.00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:38.000Stuart Winchester: Did have value collected onto a pass, and when you put them all together as a dynamite product.00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:47.000Stuart Winchester: and now I think, as you said, ICON's going for that, and then you have the Snow Pass, and the Snow Pass, uh…00:40:47.000 --> 00:41:02.000Stuart Winchester: has signed Snow King as a partner, and that's a long-time Indy Pass partner, and I can read these emails if you'd like, or you can just talk through it yourself on how you see the Snow King.00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:03.000Stuart Winchester: um…00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:05.000Stuart Winchester: conflict here.00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:20.000Erik Mogensen: Yeah, look, I wouldn't really say that there is any controversy here. I think Snow King is staying on Indy. Um, you know, Ryan and I never discussed any sort of litigation, and I connected him directly with you so that he could, you know, explain the situation for himself.00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:36.000Erik Mogensen: Look, again, it's not my job to get out in front and speak for these resorts. These are really great resorts with phenomenal and sophisticated operators, and they can speak for themselves. So, what I can do, Stu, is, you know, say, hey, Ryan.00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:43.000Erik Mogensen: you know, you're on Indy, and you're not on the snow pass, copy you on that email, and then you can read the email to the group.00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, the email…00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:50.000Stuart Winchester: from Ryan said.00:41:51.000 --> 00:42:06.000Stuart Winchester: Stuart, hi Stuart, this is Ryan Stanley, General Manager of Snow King. That is correct, we're going to remain on the Indy Pass this upcoming season and also offer two free tickets to the Snow Pass holders without receiving compensation, meaning Snow King will not receive compensation.00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:16.000Stuart Winchester: We are fairly desperate for some skier visits and are working on an offer for free and or $20 tickets to other pass holders as well. You know, I…00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:18.000Stuart Winchester: Ran this…00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:20.000Stuart Winchester: Bye.00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.000Stuart Winchester: Snow pass and.00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:26.000Stuart Winchester: I can read this email from Joe Heschen that he sent me today.00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:33.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, he said, Hi Stuart, I'm a bit confused by how this has become so complex. As stated, we have signed a signed agreement with Snow King.00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:43.000Stuart Winchester: While I would like to keep their details confidential, you are welcome to share ours. Our goal with this is not to profit, but rather to gather a group to work together for the betterment of the industry.00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:56.000Stuart Winchester: And then, it sounds like Snow King will be working with Indy and Snow Pass this season, which is great news for them. Thank you. Go Hessian. So, from Snow Pass's point of view, Snow King is still on both passes.00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:16.000Erik Mogensen: I don't know, Stu's starting to sound like a big old, you know, fun high school group text message here. I don't, I, you know, I don't know what to tell you. Um, again, I think Ryan's email's pretty clear. I'm not gonna speak for Ryan, not gonna speak for Joe. Um, they're definitely, you know, Snow King is definitely on the Indy Pass. We're definitely gonna pay them, just like we have.00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:21.000Erik Mogensen: every year. We're definitely gonna push a lot of visits to them. Um, you know, I'm not…00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:33.000Erik Mogensen: entirely sure, uh, beyond that. Uh, and, and, you know, Ryan, again, Ryan's a really smart guy. I've enjoyed talking to him. Um, I've spent a…00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:49.000Erik Mogensen: few, you know, longer phone calls, and he is desperate for skier visits, and I get that. He's a small skier area in the shadow of Jackson Hole, and doesn't have a ton of population to pull from. Most of the population that's coming through is destination visits.00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:57.000Erik Mogensen: And he needs more skier visits. We… we want Snow King to get skier visits. We… we… and if Ryan wants to comp…00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:07.000Erik Mogensen: you know, snow pass holders, or icon pass holders, or epic pass holders, then that's fine. I think that's great. But just because Ryan is going to comp.00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:04.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:18.000Erik Mogensen: the Snow Pass doesn't mean that he's on the Snow Pass, and just because Ryan is going to comp Icon Pass holders, that doesn't mean that he's joined the Icon Pass. Um, all I can come down to, again.00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:27.000Erik Mogensen: is that Snow King's on the Indy Pass, um, and from our perspective, they're giving some free tickets to some of the other passes.00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:35.000Erik Mogensen: Hopefully, that checks everyone's box for early September ski area drama.00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:43.000Stuart Winchester: All right, it is an ongoing story. I just have a lot of conflicting information from…00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:56.000Erik Mogensen: What we should do is just, you know, get Uncle Joe on the call, and get Ryan on the call, and you on the call, and we all talk about it, right? Like, I think it's… I don't think it's that complicated, and frankly, it's not that big of a deal.00:44:56.000 --> 00:45:12.000Erik Mogensen: And I question the intentions behind making it a big deal. I think that, you know, Snowpass is definitely looking for us to bite into a controversy, and we're just not going to.00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:22.000Erik Mogensen: We're just not going to. We… our job is to focus on the independent resorts and make sure that we drive more visits to more independent resorts.00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:23.000Erik Mogensen: more often.00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:31.000Erik Mogensen: It's really simple, you know, and I think, I think in general too, Stu, like, you know.00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:26.000Stuart Winchester: Do you? Yeah.00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:46.000Erik Mogensen: What I've gotten from a lot of our operators and partners and people in skiing is they're just very confused by this. And again, it might be good for ratings or listeners, but there is no litigation here.00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:56.000Erik Mogensen: there is no problem with Snow King. They're a great, valued partner. You know, this comment, you know, an idea around democratizing skiing, right? Like.00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:08.000Erik Mogensen: you know, let's let every resort build their own reciprocal deal with, you know, Jersey Joe's commission-based software pitch, right? That's cute, that sounds nice, but in practice, IndiePass exists for a reason.00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:12.000Erik Mogensen: It's a lot more work for skier is and most importantly.00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:20.000Erik Mogensen: It's much more fragmented and a confusing product for the consumer. A single pass with a single price point.00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:22.000Erik Mogensen: And a lot of partners.00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:28.000Erik Mogensen: you know, mitigates the patchwork of one-off deals, and that's the whole reason IndyPass exists.00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:37.000Erik Mogensen: More people skiing more often at independent resorts, right? Like, we redirect tens of millions of dollars a year to independent operators.00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:48.000Erik Mogensen: Arguing that somehow the absence of the IndyPass is better for the industry is nonsensical at best. It would just give Icon and Epic a more…00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:51.000Erik Mogensen: More opportunity to eat our lunch. So…00:46:51.000 --> 00:47:02.000Erik Mogensen: you know, we can… we can dive into all the muddy details all day long, but I don't see any controversy here. We're super excited to have snowpack… I mean…00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:04.000Erik Mogensen: Snow King.00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:15.000Erik Mogensen: on the Indy Pass. Um, and, you know, maybe you just have to come up with a different color for it on your spreadsheet, like some sort of gradient between the two. Whatever you want to do, we trust you.00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:32.000Stuart Winchester: Let me zoom out a little and make this a little more conceptual, because you've told me before that IndyPass doesn't make money, and I believe you're still sticking to Doug's original ratio of 15% for admin, which I doubt covers admin. So 85% traditionally was paid out to the resorts, correct?00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:49.000Erik Mogensen: Correct. Oh, yeah. Still the case. Yeah. No, I mean, look, we, we, you know, 85% of every passport just goes back to the independents. And remember, look, we, we take 100% of our money in on credit cards. We pay the ski resorts in check cash. Right. So we're also eating that credit card fee.00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:36.000Stuart Winchester: Is that still it? Okay.00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:41.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:59.000Erik Mogensen: So now you're down to, you know, 12% in change. Running a pass like this, it's not profitable. We never looked at this as being profitable.00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:53.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:10.000Erik Mogensen: I really bought IndyPass because I knew that Doug was going to exit and needed to exit, and I thought some of the other people that would buy the pass.00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:21.000Erik Mogensen: would view it more as a media company or a marketing opportunity, and less of something that I think is very important for the independents. So…00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:39.000Erik Mogensen: Uh, you know, Snowpass has committed to giving 80% back, um, to the resorts in their first year, and then something else beyond that, right? And the difference between 80% and 5%, right? You know, it sounds like 5%, but if you actually do the math, that's a 25% difference.00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:49.000Erik Mogensen: Uh, and so we pay every resort the same percentage back of their, you know, top ticket price. We've always done that, um, so…00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:55.000Erik Mogensen: That's what we do, that's what we've done, that's what worked, and that's what we.00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:59.000Stuart Winchester: So to zoom out to the conceptual level a little bit here, I want to look at…00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:09.000Stuart Winchester: Snow King's neighbor, Jackson Hole. Okay, so Jackson Hole is on Icon. They're also on Mountain Collective. You've taken a pretty firm stand that Indy.00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:16.000Stuart Winchester: partners should be exclusive with Indy. If you're looking at a ski area like Snow King that is desperate for.00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:18.000Stuart Winchester: for visits.00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:24.000Stuart Winchester: why cut that pathway off? Why is it important to make indie exclusive and not say, okay.00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:39.000Stuart Winchester: case by case, if you're, uh, you know, certain resorts, if we don't have an exclusivity agreement with you, like, maybe you want to give, you know, Brundage a higher payout because they're a destination and… and to be exclusive, but maybe some of these other ones, you give them all the tools in the toolbox. What…00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:42.000Stuart Winchester: Why is that not an option? Or is it an option?00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:48.000Erik Mogensen: Yeah, I just, I think it complicates things, number one. Number two, I just don't find it very equitable. The great thing about IndyPass, look, I get…00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:58.000Erik Mogensen: There's a lot of conversations all the time when we have a larger resort wanting to join, or has joined, or wants to renew about getting a bigger payout.00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:08.000Erik Mogensen: What I can tell you for as long as I own and run IndyPass, I'm going to treat every single resort the same. I'm not going to make special side deals.00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:14.000Erik Mogensen: That's just what we're going to do. I think it's a mistake to do that.00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:20.000Erik Mogensen: Everyone's going to get the same. Everyone's going to be the same. Everyone's going to get the same percentage payout.00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:15.000Stuart Winchester: It.00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:23.000Erik Mogensen: No special deals.00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:37.000Stuart Winchester: So let me wrap on that point. So you added Smugs, your New England network is lights out. You know, like I said, Jay, Smugs, Cannon, Waterville, Saddleback, and a bunch of smaller places, including Black Mountain. Doug was concerned when he started the pass.00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:48.000Stuart Winchester: About dilution in the marketplace, and if you put too many ski areas in a market, you would both cannibalize their season pass, and drive down their yield, or their eventual payout.00:50:49.000 --> 00:51:04.000Stuart Winchester: you have filled in a lot more density, and when I've asked you about it in the past, you said that's a data-driven decision, so can you break that down for us, and what gives you confidence that adding smugs is not going to take away from.00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:08.000Stuart Winchester: Fulton Valley, or Jay Peak, or Cannon, or Titus.00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:23.000Erik Mogensen: Well, we know exactly how many pass holders we're adding every single year, right? We, we have a unique control over how many passes we sell, right? So we have, we know the data that comes in on one lever and we 100% control the amount.00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:12.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:43.000Erik Mogensen: of passes in that lever that we sell. So it's just simple math, right? It isn't even that complex of a spreadsheet. Uh, you wouldn't even have to have it in a spreadsheet. So we need to add enough customers to make sure that we don't over dilute Bolton's payout or those things. And what's remarkable is the data shows us this is, I think now our fourth season.00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:49.000Erik Mogensen: of owning and operating the IndyPass is that we just keep going in the right direction.00:51:49.000 --> 00:52:04.000Erik Mogensen: And that's the reality. Like, JPEAK and Bolton's payout, the check that they get from IndyPass and take to the bank to pay their bills and buy more chairlifts and more snowmaking pipe and pay their employees, is only getting bigger and bigger.00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:08.000Erik Mogensen: With smugs on the pass. And again, I cannot.00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:23.000Erik Mogensen: reiterate enough how sophisticated of an operator these guys are. Like, the DeLauriers are smart. They see the numbers, you know? Christian Knapp at PGRI, he sees the numbers. Steve Wright, these are smart guys. John Schaefer, the…00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:27.000Erik Mogensen: Really smart. You know, if they figure it out.00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.000Erik Mogensen: I think that that itself.00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:38.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, Jay has been, uh, has recommitted to Indy several times, uh, through one-year contracts. All right, Eric, IndyPass is still on sale?00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:56.000Erik Mogensen: Uh, 80 Pass is on sale right now, yes. I think what we've announced is we've said tomorrow's the day. I think we could go into midday Saturday. Um, it's… it's hard to tell, right? We look at a couple numbers, we look at people that have put things in their cart, and what the potential conversion rate is, and where things go, and…00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:01.000Erik Mogensen: the geography around them. We definitely have a very firm ceiling on what we're gonna sell.00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:10.000Erik Mogensen: When we're going to sell that through, that's the hard part. But yeah, we've identified that tomorrow's the day.00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:16.000Stuart Winchester: And this will be the end of 26-27 IndyPass sales guaranteed, or is there a chance for a flash December sale or something?00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:30.000Erik Mogensen: There is never a guarantee of anything in this thing. We are talking to some pretty major additions as well that I think would be meaningful, and we'll have to decide if that's a this year thing or a next year thing with them.00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:20.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:46.000Stuart Winchester: I mean, you've already added over 40 new partners. India has more partners than Epic, Icon, Mountain Collective, Snowpass, and Mountain Collective Capital's Powerpass combined around the world. So you're saying we should expect or could expect more partners?00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:32.000Erik Mogensen: Alright.00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:49.000Stuart Winchester: In advance of the 26-27 winter?00:53:48.000 --> 00:54:02.000Erik Mogensen: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I can tell you that there will definitely be some more. And I think, Stu, it's actually about 60 new additions. And I know you don't like to count the cross-country ski areas, but we should maybe find a separate tab for them on the spreadsheet.00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:04.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:12.000Erik Mogensen: Every ski area matters to us here, whether it's cross country or downhill or big or small. I think that's what makes us different.00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:27.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, you know, I didn't start stop counting them out of malice. I stopped because I couldn't really understand them, and the maps kind of looked like a brain scan, and some would leave, and it was just a lot. I was already trying to track too much.00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:44.000Stuart Winchester: I will take that piece of advice, though, and I will see if I can find a place where they make sense. Eric, really appreciate everything today, appreciate everything you're doing with Indy and Black Mountain, and look forward to catching up with you again really soon.00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:49.000Erik Mogensen: Yeah. Thanks so much, Stu. Keep those spreadsheets going, dude.00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:47.000Stuart Winchester: Alright.00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:51.000Stuart Winchester: That's all I do.00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:52.000Erik Mogensen: Yeah, I know. See ya.00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:53.000Stuart Winchester: All right, take care.00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:53.000Erik Mogensen: Bye.00:54:55.000 --> 00:55:05.000Stuart Winchester: All right, that was Eric Mogensen, director of IndyPass, owner of Black Mountain, responding to some of the questions.00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:21.000Stuart Winchester: initial conversation I had with Joe Heschen the other day. So, uh, that's great. We have no more clarity on Snow King, and this episode went a little off the rails, because I need to… there's gonna be a lot of experimentation here, guys.00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:35.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, the… the opening take, I'm realizing, I don't know if I should be recording that before the guest. I think maybe I need to start with the guest, because otherwise, I end up having to cut myself short. So…00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:39.000Stuart Winchester: I want to get to some reader reaction.00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:42.000Stuart Winchester: To close us out today.00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:44.000Stuart Winchester: And…00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:47.000Stuart Winchester: The first comes from…00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:49.000Stuart Winchester: Matt Hart.00:55:49.000 --> 00:56:03.000Stuart Winchester: He said, really, this is in reaction to Brian Norton's interview yesterday about Loon Mountain's expansion. Matt Hart, really good, loved Brian's description of the expansion and how they will make it work from an operations point of view.00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:06.000Stuart Winchester: Catcher's mitt for snow, love it.00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:21.000Stuart Winchester: And then, and then Matt asks, did he give you grief for calling the Timbertown expansion that little one LOL? I, no, he didn't, but, but it is, I mean, it was a 30 acre expansion on a huge ski area. So, uh, I don't know, maybe, I think they, uh.00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:36.000Stuart Winchester: you know, I'm always the tourist, so anytime I'm asking these guys anything, they… I think that it sounds a little ridiculous, because they live it every day of their life. It would be like them asking me a question about my cats, you know, it's something that I'm around every day.00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:46.000Stuart Winchester: All right, this is a comment from Robert, a paid subscriber, which is the way you can interact with the show is to be a paid subscriber to the Storm Skiing Podcast.00:56:46.000 --> 00:57:00.000Stuart Winchester: Robert says, again, of the Brian Norton pod yesterday, great second effort. Are you planning to stick to a drop time of about 4 p.m. Eastern time? What is your anticipated schedule? Daily, four days a week, three?00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:07.000Stuart Winchester: 4pm drop makes for a nice way to wrap up the day, at least for those in a compatible time zone.00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:22.000Stuart Winchester: And then Brian Bench, paid subscriber, says, ditto on sharing the anticipated schedule. We humans are creatures of habit, and so would be great to know when we can generally expect these to land. Excited for your chat with Eric today. Well…00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:23.000Stuart Winchester: Brian.00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:26.000Stuart Winchester: I have an amazing guest.00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:29.000Stuart Winchester: scheduled for…00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:46.000Stuart Winchester: Sep

Welcome to the Storm's short-form, news-focused podcast. Don't worry, I will still write newsletters too. To browse a podcast transcript, click the “transcript” button above - click on any block of text and the audio will jump to that point in the conversation. Paid subscribers can leave a comment below - I'll respond to some in the next episode. Thank you for supporting independent ski journalism./:The Zoom transcript (click “transcript” above for the Substack transcript, which will zoom to any point in the video when you click on the associated text block; timestamps below DO NOT MATCH THE VIDEO)00:01:51.000 --> 00:02:02.000Stuart Winchester: Welcome to the Storm! It is September 8th, 2026, and if you are a Storm regular, you are probably wondering what in the heck is going on here.00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:09.000Stuart Winchester: Today, we are launching an all-new format for the Storm Skiing Podcast.00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:22.000Stuart Winchester: It is shorter, it is news-focused, it will be more frequent, and it will publish the same day that I record it in just about every instance.00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:23.000Stuart Winchester: So.00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:28.000Stuart Winchester: It's gonna have a lot of different elements. Uh, takes just…00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.000Stuart Winchester: on whatever's happening in the news.00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, let's scrap that and let's start again.00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:41.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, starting from the top.00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:42.000Stuart Winchester: 3.00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.000Stuart Winchester: Q.00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:45.000Stuart Winchester: One.00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:59.000Stuart Winchester: Welcome to the Storm! I'm your host, Stuart Winchester. It is September 8th, 2026, and I would like to welcome you all to a brand new version of the Storm Skiing Podcast.00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:02.000Stuart Winchester: So, the long-form podcast…00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:09.000Stuart Winchester: has been the default of the Storm Skiing Podcast since I launched in 2019.00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.000Stuart Winchester: Very proud of the Storm Skiing podcast.00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:16.000Stuart Winchester: We're at episode 227.00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:26.000Stuart Winchester: I have interviewed the leaders of nearly every large ski area in America, and the leaders of most of the large ski companies in America.00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.000Stuart Winchester: But something started to feel a little bit off.00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:35.000Stuart Winchester: And, you know, I started to think about the kind of podcasts that I consume.00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:44.000Stuart Winchester: And those are mostly, frankly, around Michigan football, uh, which is my other obsession besides ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-s.00:03:44.000 --> 00:04:02.000Stuart Winchester: tend to be much more news-focused. They tend to be much shorter than the Storm Skiing Podcast. They tend to publish the same day that they record them, and they tend to break down current events. For example, I just went to a Michigan football game.00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:21.000Stuart Winchester: on Saturday in Ann Arbor. If you're even remotely a sports fan, you probably saw the controversial ending to that game when Michigan got an extra second added on, and Bryce Underwood, the quarterback, tossed a Hail Mary to win the game when JJ Buchanan, our transfer receiver, came down with the ball.00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:36.000Stuart Winchester: That's never happened in the history of Michigan football, to have a Hail Mary ending that Michigan wins. So, on the way home, it's a 10-hour drive back to New York, my wife and I listened to all the different Michigan podcasts that were breaking down that moment. And I realized that…00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:54.000Stuart Winchester: as much as I like the Storm Skiing Podcast, and as much as a lot of other people like it, I was not really making the kind of podcast that I actually listen to. And that's a problem, because in our current media environment, people have a lot of choice.00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.000Stuart Winchester: They have a lot of of.00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:13.000Stuart Winchester: different things they can give their attention to, and it's hard to get and keep their attention. So, I want to say right off, I am not killing the long-form storm skiing podcast. It will not end with episode 227. In fact, I have about 5 or 6 in the can that I've been sitting on.00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:30.000Stuart Winchester: for this news, and I will release those soon, and my thanks to the folks who participated in those podcasts for their everlasting patience as I got this together. So, I'm still gonna make the Storm Skiing Podcast. The frequency will go from about 45 a year at its peak.00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:47.000Stuart Winchester: It's probably about a dozen a year or so, and sometimes there will just be a time when the long form is the more appropriate form for telling the story of a mountain. If I have someone new on, for example, so for example, I've never had.00:05:47.000 --> 00:06:02.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, the GM or owner of Sierra at Tahoe in California, an important mountain on the podcast. Never had Wolf Creek on the podcast, never had Mount Baker. If I were to get one of those folks, I would want to do a long form, tell the story of the ski area. But it's not always necessary to.00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:18.000Stuart Winchester: Tell the entire story of the ski area and its history and its culture when you just want to talk about a new lift or you just want to talk about the fact that it joined a new pass. So this shorter podcast will be more frequent.00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:35.000Stuart Winchester: It will have different segments, segments with takes when I just talk about what's going on. It will still have interviews, much shorter interviews. Today we have an interview with an awesome guest, Snow Partner CEO Joe Heschen, one of the smartest guys in skiing.00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:45.000Stuart Winchester: But before, Joe and I went on for two hours. This time, we'll be able to condense it down. And then at the end of each episode, my intent.00:06:45.000 --> 00:07:02.000Stuart Winchester: and hope is to have reader interaction, and this will be a feature available only to paid supporters of the Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast, and you can upgrade to a paid subscription at stormskiing.com anytime. The podcast will be for everyone, as it's always been.00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:18.000Stuart Winchester: But only paid subscribers will be able to interact with the podcast. And the way that they will be able to do that is that they will be able to write a comment on the article that accompanies the newsletter on stormskiing.com.00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:32.000Stuart Winchester: And the next day, I will read some of those comments and react to them as appropriate. And I'll talk a little bit more about that later and why I'm doing it that way. But for now, I want to assure you.00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:48.000Stuart Winchester: This podcast is going to come to you the same way your podcasts always have. Now, there is a video version. You can watch that on YouTube, will be our primary channel, as well as Substack, which is where the newsletter is published. There will always, always, always be an audio version.00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:58.000Stuart Winchester: And it will always come to the same places that you have always gotten the podcast. If that's Apple, if that's Spotify, there's some that I don't even know.00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:11.000Stuart Winchester: how the podcast got on there, or why it's on there. There's an RSS feed that spits this out from Substack. That will not change. The storm will be… when you go looking for it, you're going to find the storm.00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:13.000Stuart Winchester: So.00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:24.000Stuart Winchester: This is something I'm super excited about because I think it will allow me to have a lot more guests a lot more often.00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:35.000Stuart Winchester: there are so many great minds in skiing right now, and I feel like there's a lot of negative sentiment around skiing and the way it's evolving. There's a lot of talk of a duopoly.00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:39.000Stuart Winchester: But from my point of view.00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:54.000Stuart Winchester: there's not a duopoly in a way that is dominating all consumer choice. And the reason I have that point of view is I'm having conversations every single day with smart people.00:08:54.000 --> 00:09:10.000Stuart Winchester: thinking far ahead and doing great things to change skiing in ways that make skiing better, that make skiing access better. People like Joe Hesham, my guest today, people like Eric Mogenson, who runs the Indy Pass, people like John Schaefer, who runs a handful of mountains.00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:28.000Stuart Winchester: in the East, people like Rick Schmitz, who runs three ski areas in the Midwest. Small ski area operators like Tim Meyer at Caber Fay in Michigan, who we'll talk about a little bit later. So, I'm talking to these people all the time, and I'm seeing the independent ski areas are really, for the most part, doing fine. I'm seeing.00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:33.000Stuart Winchester: Huge investment. I'm seeing huge innovation and.00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:43.000Stuart Winchester: Because of the frequency of the podcast, and because of the laborious nature of turning interviews into written content.00:09:43.000 --> 00:10:00.000Stuart Winchester: I don't think that I'm getting that to you in the way that I would like, in, in, in the way that you deserve. I want you to be part of this conversation. I want you to see why I'm so optimistic about skiing right now. I want you to know why I feel that skiing is in its best.00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:05.000Stuart Winchester: place, historically, that it has ever been, at least in America.00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:10.000Stuart Winchester: Now, it certainly has problems, and we will get into those as well.00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:21.000Stuart Winchester: I don't answer to anyone. I don't answer to the operators. I don't have a boss. I answer to my subscribers, and that's it. The only thing I care about is the truth.00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:28.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, and my optimism does not come from any desire to have access or anything else. My… my…00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.000Stuart Winchester: My content and my commitment to the truth.00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:50.000Stuart Winchester: comes from wanting to deliver a great journalistic product. Uh, and there's gonna be opinion and analysis. You're not always going to agree with what I say, and that's good! I wanna remind people that. That's good. If you agree with everything I say, I have no value. I can tell you that all of my guests.00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.000Stuart Winchester: disagree with things I say, but the reason they keep coming back.00:10:54.000 --> 00:11:03.000Stuart Winchester: And the reason that I hope they will keep coming back is because I'm trying to be fair, I'm trying to work within the bounds of the truth, and I'm not…00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:08.000Stuart Winchester: Jumping to these huge accusatory.00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:25.000Stuart Winchester: narratives that we see so often with the Mega Passes and with the big consolidators, Vale and Altera. So, I want to give a different perspective, I want to give it more frequently. The newsletter, one more point, the newsletter will stay the same. There will always be written content.00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:34.000Stuart Winchester: I am still a writer with a podcast, not a podcaster with a newsletter, though I kind of have to admit at this point that I am.00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:42.000Stuart Winchester: a podcaster, even though that sounds… I don't know, it sounds a little… pretentious, or juvenile, or uh… like I'm…00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:58.000Stuart Winchester: you know, doing this as a side hustle while I drive for Uber, but… but no, this is my full-time job. The Storm is and has been my full-time job for a couple of years. Now, the reason I want to switch to a news-based podcast is for days like today, because today we have.00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:00.000Stuart Winchester: Huge news.00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:04.000Stuart Winchester: One of my favorite ski areas.00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:09.000Stuart Winchester: One of the best ski areas in the eastern United States.00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:14.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, depending on your point of view, maybe one of the best ski areas in the United States.00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:20.000Stuart Winchester: is joining a Malta Mountain Pass for the first time.00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:27.000Stuart Winchester: That is Smuggler's Notch, Vermont. Smuggs is an incredible place.00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:40.000Stuart Winchester: For a lot of reasons. Number one, if you don't live in the East, and you're under the impression that the East is an ice ball, and the vertical drops are short, and the mountains are small.00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:56.000Stuart Winchester: You're wrong. You're just wrong. And there is a snow. There's plenty of big mountains in the east. First of all, there's plenty of good snow pockets in the east. One of the best snow pockets is in northern Vermont, and you have a line of resorts.00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:12.000Stuart Winchester: We call it the spine of the Green Mountains. Starts at Killington Pico, goes up to Sugarbush, which is in Alterra Mountain. Right next door is Mad River Glen, the famous Indy with the single chair. North of that is Bolton Valley, which is on Indy Pass. North of that is Stowe, which is owned by V.00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:23.000Stuart Winchester: On the backside of Stowe is Smuggler's Notch, and then north of that is Jay Peak. Smuggler's Notch joins IndyPass today, and here are the stats.00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:39.000Stuart Winchester: It is a 2610 foot vertical drop that is the fourth tallest in the east. It has one smug says 1060 skiable acres that they claim there's actually more in the woods. If you count the back bowls and some of the secret stashes.00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:54.000Stuart Winchester: Off of the Sterling lift. So that makes it the fourth largest ski area in the east. It is the second snowiest ski area in the east after Jay Peak, which is also an IndyPass partner with 322in of snowfall.00:13:54.000 --> 00:14:10.000Stuart Winchester: On average per winter. Yes, that's a lot. That's those are Vail numbers. Those are Colorado numbers. No, it's not Cottonwoods, but it's deep enough that those ski areas almost always have tree skiing from the beginning.00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:22.000Stuart Winchester: from around Christmas through the end of the season. I've skied Glades at Stowe in April many times. I've done the same at Jay Peak. So, the snow coverage really.00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:38.000Stuart Winchester: comes and it really falls. Mount Mansfield, which is where Stowe is, right next to Smuggs, is the tallest mountain in Vermont, and they have a snow stake there that consistently builds up to around 60 inches or so for the season. So, Smuggs joins Indy Pass.00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:56.000Stuart Winchester: today. It is the… and, and, and, and… No Blackouts on Indie Bass Pass, which goes on sale today to the general public, or actually maybe tomorrow it goes on sale, for… $419.00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:57.000Stuart Winchester: The ND…00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:13.000Stuart Winchester: Plus is 469. So I'll give you a few stats here. So Indy with adding smugs, that is the 43rd Alpine lift serve ski area that Indy has added for the 2026 to 2027.00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:14.000Stuart Winchester: Winter.00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:30.000Stuart Winchester: That gives them a total. Now, my totals are going to be a little different than Indy's because they're counting cross-country ski areas. And I'm leaving those off. And I also count sometimes two ski areas, as one when they're when they're separate entities. But but they share days.00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:45.000Stuart Winchester: So Indy now has 256 ski areas, lift-served alpine downhill ski areas, which get two days each. So they have more than you could possibly use. That includes 148 ski areas in the United States.00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:57.000Stuart Winchester: 32 in Canada, 39 in Europe, and 32 in Japan. You can ski 30% of all ski areas in America on Indy.00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:14.000Stuart Winchester: Now, on the flip side, Indy also had some important losses this winter. They lost, and they're all in the Midwest, and Indy's lost mountains before, and with a roster that big, you're gonna have some turnover. Uh, but the first wave of losses came back.00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:24.000Stuart Winchester: in past release season in March, when the three areas owned by Midwest Family Ski Resorts, some of the best operators in the country, uh, they own Lutzen Mountain in Minnesota.00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:39.000Stuart Winchester: one of the largest ski areas in the Midwest, uh, Granite Peak in Wisconsin, which has 3 high-speed lifts, and Snow River, which is really 2 side-by-side ski areas and a nice snow belt in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. They left for Icon Pass.00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:53.000Stuart Winchester: Now, there's a little bit of a historical precedent there, because those three ski areas had been on the Max Pass, which had been the immediate predecessor, along with the Rocky Mountain Super Pass, to the Icon Pass. Uh, the…00:16:53.000 --> 00:17:10.000Stuart Winchester: Icon Pass, when it debuted in 2018, left off Snow River, Granite Peak, and Lutzen. And I always thought, well, Snow River wasn't a part of Midwest Family at the time, but I always thought that was a mistake. So I'm not surprised to see them go, but those were big drivers of Indy Pass sales.00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:16.000Stuart Winchester: Because those are marquee mountains in the Midwest. They also recently lost…00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:34.000Stuart Winchester: Another three mountains run by another great operator in Wisconsin, Little Switzerland, Crystal Ridge, and Nordic Mountain. Now, these are small ski areas. They're feeder ski areas, but they're important ski areas because Rick is a very smart guy. He's very influential.00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:50.000Stuart Winchester: And he has a lot of influence in the ski business, including being part of the board of directors of the National Skiers Association. Everyone respects him. They also lost Cabar Fay, one of my favorite mountains in Michigan. It was my pseudo-home mountain when I lived in Michigan as a teenager.00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:57.000Stuart Winchester: I have a lot of respect for Tim and Pete Meyer, who run that over there. So, I'll talk a little bit more…00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:10.000Stuart Winchester: about that with Joe, because I think there's going to be some crossover with the snow pass. So, quickly, before we get to our guest, I want to tell you about Profile Search International.00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:15.000Stuart Winchester: A lot of you come to this podcast to hear from the best minds in skiing.00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:20.000Stuart Winchester: But what if you want to find one of these great leaders for your own mountain team?00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:35.000Stuart Winchester: Well, let me introduce you to the folks at Profile Search International. They are the ski industry talent acquisition experts, and are the only executive search and recruitment firm in the world that is 100% focused on the ski industry.00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:48.000Stuart Winchester: They have used their intimate understanding of skiing and related industries and available candidates worldwide to place hundreds of transformational leaders at the best and most progressive ski areas over the past 30 years.00:18:48.000 --> 00:19:04.000Stuart Winchester: With offices in the US and Canada, Profile Search finds and negotiates with the right leaders for your team. You can reach out to them directly at profilesearch.com or contact them by email or phone, or send me a note and I will connect you directly with their expert team.00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.000Stuart Winchester: We are joined.00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.000Stuart Winchester: As soon as we get a video.00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:33.000Stuart Winchester: We are joined today by the founder and CEO of Snow Partners, which owns and operates the Mountain Creek Outdoor Ski Area and the Big Snow American Dream Indoor Ski Areas in New Jersey. Snow Partners' terrain-based learning program has been used by more than 80 ski resorts worldwide.00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:50.000Stuart Winchester: And the company has rolled out its SnowCloud all-in-one resort management software with at least 15 clients, including Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Last year, the company launched the Snow Triple Play Pass, which was good for 3 days, total across 16 ski areas in eastern North America.00:19:50.000 --> 00:20:01.000Stuart Winchester: Ahead of Winter 2026-27, Triple Play adds 7 additional mountains, for a total of 23, at a price of $179.00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:18.000Stuart Winchester: Snow Partners has also launched the Snow Pass, which is loaded with two days each at 14 ski areas for $339.99. My guest to break all this down for us today is a good friend of the Storm Skiing Podcast, Joe Heschen. Joe, welcome back to the storm. Always good to track you down.00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:18.000Joe Hession: Thanks.00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.000Stuart Winchester: How are you feeling on Snow Pass launch day?00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:36.000Joe Hession: You know, it's launch day for Snow Pass. It's launch day for Mountain Creek Seasons Passes. So winter's in the air. Things are happening. It's really exciting. This is probably my favorite time of year. So thanks for having me on such a special day. Winter's coming.00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:36.000Stuart Winchester: I'll do it.00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:53.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, and it's the first day of the new platform for the Storm. So I wanted to get you on first. I'll admit, I want to do a little bit of a flex because I know you're a hard guy to track down and you're doing a lot of cool, interesting things. I want to start with the Snowpass, Joe, because you came on the podcast last year to talk about Snow Triple Play.00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:56.000Stuart Winchester: And your launch, and you were pretty…00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.000Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:09.000Stuart Winchester: adamant, you know, this is not a pass. I don't want to do a pass. And, you know, we talked about it a lot, and I probably harassed you about it a little bit, and now we have a pass!00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:05.000Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:17.000Stuart Winchester: So, so tell us about that journey. How did, how did we get from TriplePlay to SnowPass, and, and why do you have the two different products?00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:10.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:32.000Joe Hession: Yeah. And, and, you know, you might be very responsible for it because you, you pushed it early on of, you know, why, why would this not be a pass? And, you know, originally we were really following the data and the data we were really focused on was 73% of people ski between one and five days.00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:50.000Joe Hession: the price point for that, and we were looking at the data for Mountain Creek with our triple play, and saying, you know, there's really not a lot of triple plays for multi-resort. That's kind of a cool, unique concept. So we were really stuck on the data. Obviously, we heard feedback from folks like yourself, and also your other… all your listeners and subscribers, and…00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:21:50.000 --> 00:22:05.000Joe Hession: And… but then, it was really our past partners. The people that bought the Triple Play were like, if we had this option, we'd be really happy. They hit us that in our post-survey, they said, we really would like this. Um, and then the resorts. We had great partners on the Triple Play program, and…00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:13.000Joe Hession: they came in and said, we would like this as well. So, you know, the model's been done, and we made the leap to do it. So we're really excited about it.00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:28.000Stuart Winchester: You have a great network to launch, and I think especially if you live in New York Metro, and I want to talk about — I do want to talk about Triple Play, but let's focus on Snowpass for a minute. The three key mountains here are Bel Air, Gore, and Whiteface.00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:43.000Stuart Winchester: These mountains, for those of us who are in the area, we know they're state subsidized. They've gotten a half billion dollars in investment. That's a whole different subject. We're going to leave that alone because the result of that for your pass holders is these are awesome ski areas. Bel Air is essentially a brand new ski area.00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:58.000Stuart Winchester: And if you're in New York Metro, you get two days at Mountain Creek, and you get two days at Big Snow, then there's some little ones. You get up in Connecticut, you have Mount Southington. So you have a really nice network of.00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:10.000Stuart Winchester: 14 ski areas, 12 of them are in the east. Talk about that network, Joe, and how deliberate it was that they kind of worked together to create a compelling pass product.00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:27.000Joe Hession: Yeah, that's a great question because that is, you know, we probably look at the world a little differently than people looking at different passes and different programs. And I think you nailed it. Like, you know, with the news last week, you know, sometimes people from Colorado chirp and they, this pass doesn't make sense for me. I'm like, yeah.00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:44.000Joe Hession: Yeah, congratulations. You can read and understand basic logic. So we love our friends in Colorado, we love our friends out west, but this is a pass that's very regional. It makes so much sense if you live in this area and you're planning to have those trips and, and, and you might remember this, but years ago.00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:32.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:23:44.000 --> 00:24:00.000Joe Hession: at the NSA show, which is the National Ski Association. I was on stage with a bunch of different groups, talking about Epic Pass and ICOM Pass, and this is before we had a Pass product. And I was saying, and I was a little critical too.00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:18.000Joe Hession: you know, listen, I think the high-level past products that exist, which just throw out big numbers, like, you know, 40 of these resorts, these resorts, or 300 resorts, like, it's cool, but the reality is, is I'm really focused on how does someone actually use it? So if we go back to the skier.00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:35.000Joe Hession: and the snowboarder, and how do they actually use this pass? And, you know, back in the day, and I love, you know, the industry is much smaller than people, especially your listeners might realize, like, I have a ton of respect for almost everybody. If anyone's in this business, I respect them, because it's a really hard business.00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:36.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:51.000Joe Hession: And so for us, I've always looked at it and said these big pass products that are kind of like overwhelming with the options, like how do people actually use them and where does it drive traffic and traffic to the right places at the right time and stuff like that. So we're very deliberate.00:24:51.000 --> 00:25:02.000Joe Hession: very deliberate in, if you live in New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Long Island, um, upstate New York, parts of Pennsylvania, this is a very compelling pass that not only takes you from the city.00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:18.000Joe Hession: Because for us, what's really critical is that kind of warm handshake from, we're teaching a hundred thousand new people a year to ski at Big Snow. Where do they then go to? And obviously we want them to come to Mountain Creek, but I also want them to go to Whiteface and Bel Air and Gore and Platic Hill.00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:17.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:34.000Joe Hession: Um, because things like that, that's kind of how this industry can work together to take people who are new to the sport, or people who are, maybe have never gone. Maybe they always go to Vermont, and we love Vermont, but maybe this is their chance to go up to Whiteface and realize, oh, wow.00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:41.000Joe Hession: That's, you know, you can see JP from there, right? So it's kind of it's people don't realize how far north Whiteface is.00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:49.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so you have a really nice network, and I think it's gonna sell really well. I mean, just even if… even if you just launched.00:25:49.000 --> 00:26:05.000Stuart Winchester: a Bel Air Gore Whiteface pass at that price point, I think it would probably sell really well. Uh, but the reality is you're going up against a very competitive market. So, uh, you look at Epic Pass, not maybe so competitive, you're doing something different, they don't have as many mountains in the market. Indy Pass.00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:20.000Stuart Winchester: I'm not even sure if you know this yet, because the embargo literally lifted when we started this at 10 a.m. eastern. A smuggler's notch today announced they are joining the Indy Pass. So the Indy Pass gives you a really nice network of resorts in your neighborhood.00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:14.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:34.000Stuart Winchester: In New England, it has Waterville Valley, Cannon, Jay Peak, Saddleback, and now Smug, some of the best ski areas in the region. It has ski areas all over New York. That goes on sale to the public.00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:50.000Stuart Winchester: Today or tomorrow, the Indy Pass, they do a fall sale for $419. They have 256 alpine ski areas as of today, including 61 in the western US. They have a big head start, right? They started in 2019, so.00:26:50.000 --> 00:27:04.000Stuart Winchester: you're offering a different product, but it works in the same way, right? SnowPass. Uh, little lower price point, $340 as opposed to $419. What's your pitch for someone considering SnowPass or IndyPass?00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:20.000Joe Hession: Yeah, so, well, well, first let me hit that because it's, it's, what's interesting is, and, and it's important to kind of explain our background and where we come from. I probably see the world differently than almost everyone involved in this past world. I, I kind of look at it as.00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:35.000Joe Hession: you know, the pitch is, if you live in this area and you want to visit the resorts on our pass, it's a no-brainer. Not only that, I don't think we're going to live in a world where there's Epic, Icon, Indy, Snow Pass, Mountain Collective.00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:53.000Joe Hession: I think we should be trying to live in a world where we democratize skiing back to the skiers and snowboarders, and allow them to make choices in their price points where they want to go, vastly different than it is today. I think these programs, um, really exist because lack of good technology.00:27:53.000 --> 00:28:08.000Joe Hession: Like, like, basically, we would have reciprocal programs back years ago with, uh, like, Mound Creek and Killington. And to get that to actually make sense to the guests, where they show up, and it's seamless, and the money's able to be traded the right way, wasn't possible years ago.00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:24.000Joe Hession: So, for us, you know, and I'll get to the question of what the pitch directly to Indy, but I see the world so dramatically different than IndyPass. I see a world where independent ski resorts should be working with each other.00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:16.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:43.000Joe Hession: for the betterment of their guests to share people to different locations that people find interesting. A real-life example is Martok in Nova Scotia and Cape Smoky have a reciprocal program that they're actually allowed to have… they have one pass that's able to work at both places and can split the revenue and funding between it.00:28:43.000 --> 00:29:00.000Joe Hession: between them. They have common ownership. But they're both on SnowCloud. So really, you know, our software platform, SnowCloud, which really operates all the things that is involved with Snowpass and Snow TriplePlay, our real pitch long-term, our real pitch of what we're trying to do with Snowpass.00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:46.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:17.000Joe Hession: is open up the door to give resort leaders and operators tools where they take out the middleman. And what I mean by the middleman is Wachusett and a resort up in Vermont doesn't need a third party to organize their pass benefits.00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:33.000Joe Hession: They should be doing it directly themselves, using better technology. So, I am calling for a shift, a big shift, in the way that people think of this, of, let's get away from these big, pillar, clunky things that are these big, like.00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:46.000Joe Hession: big, like, kind of ego plays of passes, and let's take skiing back to the skiers and snowboarders, and let them have direct relationships with the resorts they love, and give these operators great tools to allow that to happen.00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:50.000Joe Hession: Um, so that that's our long term pitch. Yeah.00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:56.000Stuart Winchester: So let me jump in there. I just want to ask now, I want to follow up on that. So are you saying this snow pass, your goal is to…00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:01.000Stuart Winchester: make it extinct at some point? It's a building block to the next level, is that what you're saying?00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.000Joe Hession: Yeah.00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:01.000Joe Hession: You…00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:17.000Joe Hession: Yeah, what's interesting is Snowpass, we have no upside in Snowpass. So we've been very open and clear about this. And I just want to make sure the goal of Snowpass is secure. We share all of our books openly with all of our resort partners. They can see every transaction, every dollar flow.00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:33.000Joe Hession: There's overhead in some of the expenses. They get a clear, like, this is the piece that we do that. We originally said it was estimated at 5%. If it ends up becoming 3%, we'll distribute the rest of that to the resorts. We have no profit margin built into our plan for Snowpass.00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:43.000Joe Hession: Snowpass to us is the first step in trying to prove the theory of could we remove the middleman from the equation?00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:58.000Joe Hession: And we applaud the idea that if you're on Snowpass, and let's say that Whiteface wants to now work with Platykill directly, we would celebrate that and see that as a huge win.00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:14.000Joe Hession: Because we want resorts to collaborate. If people are real fans of skiing and snowboarding, and they've been buying passes for years, and part of it, they know that the beauty of the ski industry is when the ski industry, skiers, snowboarders, the people that operate these resorts, work together.00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:26.000Joe Hession: they create beautiful things. So we need to give them tools to work together, and also the ability to work together, because some companies restrict people from being able to work with each other, which goes against the spirit of the whole ski industry in the first place.00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:32.000Stuart Winchester: So if you were… So let's think of… Let's do a thought experiment here. So let's take some…00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:32.000Joe Hession: Okay.00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:53.000Stuart Winchester: some resorts that share your operating software, right? So you have Mountain Creek, so you can do whatever you want with it, and you have big snow. I know that, for example, Greek Peak up in upstate New York uses, it's up near Cornell, sort of central New York for folks who aren't familiar. It would be a great feeder from Mountain Creek because it has.00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:40.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:45.000Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:09.000Stuart Winchester: a resort feel, and it's a big mountain, and it has a nice hotel across the street with a water park and everything. So you have, uh, Greek Beak, and then you signed Jackson Hole, right? So would an example be that if you were a…00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:05.000Joe Hession: Yeah.00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:13.000Stuart Winchester: Mountain Creek Passholder, you could somehow…00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:25.000Stuart Winchester: Mountain Creek could sign a deal with Greek Peak for shorter-term visits and Jackson Hole for longer-term. Is that the goal, and how would that be different from a pass we have now?00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:40.000Joe Hession: Yeah, so, yeah, well, because it could be priced exactly to the price, it would make sense to the consumer. Because right now, and remember, when people buy an IndiePass or a pass like that, there's an idea that all these resorts, like, I'm a big fan of IndiePass.00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:57.000Joe Hession: Pareto charts, the 80/20 rule. I will guess, not knowing anything about their business, that 80% of the revenue is made up of 20% of the resorts and the visits. I will almost guarantee it because that's how statistics works. So when you have huge numbers, it starts to cloud the efficiency of it, right?00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:17.000Joe Hession: So to me, I look at and say, yeah, so a program where it's like if Mountain Creek went to Greek Peak and said, we want to have a reciprocal program where if someone uses this, it seamlessly just works at the lift. So imagine someone took their Mountain Creek pass, went and rode the lift at Greek Peak and boom, the transaction happened. The guests never even knew it happened.00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:12.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:32.000Joe Hession: the business relationship worked, and then we shared data to basically say, oh, this is a Mountain Creek and Greek Peak guest. Now you guys can market directly to them and hopefully get them to come for a longer stay next time. That's where I… that's where I would love to have it, and Greek Peak's a great example.00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:40.000Joe Hession: We're great partners with them. We love that resort. They've been great early adopters of SnowCloud. We're not allowed to have a reciprocal program with them at Mountain Creek or Big.00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:58.000Joe Hession: They're, they're contractly obligated not to work with anyone other than who they work with, which is, which to me is just wild. And I think most people don't realize that that's how it works. And, you know, the last thing we need is, is the middleman kind of inserting themselves into controlling how people operate. It's just.00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:10.000Joe Hession: So… so I would love… I see a future like that. Currently, unfortunately, with a place like Repeat, we're not allowed to work with them. We're… we're… and… and I mean not on Snowpass. We can't have a reciprocal…00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:16.000Joe Hession: We can't give someone a discount if they're a Mountain Creek holder to go to Greek Peak. It's.00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, and great.00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.000Joe Hession: Less rules. We need less rules.00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:29.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, Greek Peak has worked with IndiePass since 2019. They've been an original partner over there. I want to get to that in a second. You know, I…00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:20.000Joe Hession: Okay.00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:44.000Stuart Winchester: I don't know if I see a post-pass world, because I like a menu, I like the big passes. However, what I think you're describing could solve is the free visit problem.00:34:44.000 --> 00:35:02.000Stuart Winchester: because I know Indian Ski Cooper, for example, had a dust-up a few years ago because Ski Cooper was essentially… India accused him of essentially creating a national pass, and that was probably my fault because I wrote an article that said, hey, look at this secret national pass for 300 bucks in Colorado. Nonetheless, it's a lot of…00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:56.000Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:19.000Stuart Winchester: Free visits and you have mountains like Bogus Basin in, in Idaho that are still giving away a lot of free visits. Now, Bogus is a great business and, and it's doing well and they have a surplus and, and they've evolved great in the past decade or so. Uh, but, but it seems like that could really solve that.00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:13.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:26.000Stuart Winchester: free visits problem, where there is some revenue sharing. Is that part of what you're trying to solve here?00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:41.000Joe Hession: 100%. And you see the big players do it, right? Like a big thing about us too is I'm not against anything. I think Indie is fantastic. And it's very important to point this out. I think that is, but I also think Epic and Icon are great.00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:35.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:57.000Joe Hession: Like, I'll put it this way, operating a small resort here in New Jersey, Mountain Creek, or Big Snow, there are things that Vail does so much better than us that we wish we had the resources they have. Now, with that said, we do things way better than Vail does, and they wish they had the resources.00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:14.000Joe Hession: Or the ability to do what we can do, right? And, you know, there's an old commercial years ago that there was, like, a big boardroom, and the boardroom, they're like, I wonder what the little guys are doing. And then all of a sudden, it showed the people in, like, the startup, and they're like, I wonder what the big guys are doing. So, we're all in the same business, and we're.00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:00.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:06.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:32.000Joe Hession: some of the things they've done to try to cure their own things. They own most of their resorts on their program, so they're gonna do things the way that benefits them, because they own all those resorts together. And they've tried to solve these problems in similar ways, and I think learning from them on that stuff, same thing with Icon is doing similar stuff to that.00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:35.000Joe Hession: Um, but yeah, I think…00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:44.000Joe Hession: that's exactly what we're trying to solve. We're trying to solve… we want resorts to have relationships that make sense to the consumer. Like, for example.00:36:44.000 --> 00:37:00.000Joe Hession: Who is going to go, and I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll focus on someone else for a minute. Who's gonna, who's gonna go to 40 resorts in a year on a certain pass? Nobody. Nobody. Skiers are smarter than that. No one's doing that. What they're doing, if you buy an Epic or Icon.00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:57.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:08.000Joe Hession: in the real world, the conversation goes, um, oh, I live in New York? Great. What pass are my friends buying?00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:24.000Joe Hession: Because where are they going to go this year? Where do we want to take our family trip? Oh, and it just happened. My wife and I, our family, we have a place in Snowmass. So every year, we have some friends who are like, I want to come out to Snowmass. Well, they buy an IconPass. Their decision is made based on, oh.00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:11.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:43.000Joe Hession: your condo's available, I can go, I'm gonna lock in an Icon Pass. That's how consumers actually work. So, to me, it's like, I agree with you, I love the big passes, I don't think they should go away. I think there's a great place for India, I think there's a great place for Icon, I think there's a great place for Epic Pass. There might be a great place for Snowpass.00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:59.000Joe Hession: But I also get really excited about other options. And I feel like we're at this disruptive time where we're seeing the results of these passes and kind of the rubs that are rubbing people the wrong way. And I think it might be time with technology that we can kind of.00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:57.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:06.000Joe Hession: take it to the next level. Like, you know, we're talking about the evolution of, you know, major.00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:21.000Joe Hession: uh, success has been done, and there's been some learnings, right? Like… like, the pictures of the long lines and stuff, uh, that we see every holiday or powder day, like, is a result of the PASS program. It's a result of this, it's an output of that, and I think there's ways we can maybe.00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:37.000Joe Hession: Make it better where the skier gets a better choice, a better experience, and then the resorts get to share in different ways. So really, at the end of the day, I think it's a technology driven way to better collaborate for the betterment of the ski experience to democratize.00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:35.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:42.000Joe Hession: It's kind of the price and take out the middleman is really, is really my pitch.00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:44.000Stuart Winchester: So, Joy, I appreciate…00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:45.000Joe Hession: I'd like to remove myself from the equation eventually.00:38:44.000 --> 00:39:01.000Stuart Winchester: You know, the problem with you removing yourself from the equation, Joe, is that everyone I talk to really likes working with Snow Partners, your team. They like the train-based learning, they like your operating software.00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:55.000Joe Hession: Yeah.00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:16.000Stuart Winchester: And I appreciate that spirit of Bonhomie, and you're right, the ski industry is small, and it was smaller than I would have imagined, and it was more welcoming than I would have imagined. I'm not sure if you read the lawsuit.00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:25.000Stuart Winchester: The most recent one filed against Veil Altera, Boyne Powder, the National Skier Association and and RRC. And it's built.00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:21.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:34.000Stuart Winchester: the case for the lawsuit is built on accusations of collusion. Using a lot of.00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:33.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:50.000Stuart Winchester: kind of fluffy evidence of people getting together at NSAA shows and basically sharing data and sharing best practices. I think all industries do this. Now, I'm going somewhere with this.00:39:50.000 --> 00:40:07.000Stuart Winchester: I appreciate that, and I think IndyPass, a lot of people love working with them. However, maybe a little more conflict would be good for the ski industry, because one thing I've seen as I've been reading old newspaper clippings is ski operators used to talk a lot more junk to each other, like, oh, Summit County, Colorado does.00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:17.000Stuart Winchester: more skier visits to the whole state of Utah. Obviously, those days are over, but there used to be a little more smack talk. So let me get into a little controversy here, and you can address this as you want.00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:13.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.000Joe Hession: Yeah.00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:34.000Stuart Winchester: As you said, Indy Pass does not share. You have been willing to share and and the snow triple or snow pass shares two mountains, Bromance in Quebec and Whiteface with Mountain Collective and three.00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:45.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, Butternut, Jiminy Peak, and Cranmore with the Icon today. You and Indy are both claiming Snow King, you're both telling me it's locked in, uh, and…00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:55.000Stuart Winchester: Indy's telling me it's only gonna be on Indy, so… there's a little conflict for ya. Uh, how are you approaching that, and what do you think about the scenario?00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.000Joe Hession: Yeah, yeah.00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.000Joe Hession: Yeah, so we're talking about Snow King specifically?00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:02.000Stuart Winchester: Yes, Snow King specifically.00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:10.000Joe Hession: Yeah, so specifically Snow King, we have a signed agreement with Snow King. We're very excited to work with Snow King.00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:08.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:23.000Joe Hession: Uh, Snow King would love to have visits, uh, come from us, and they are on our website, and we launched with Snow King. Um, that's where we're at. Um, you know, as far as what's going on with them in Indy.00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:39.000Joe Hession: Um, I'll kind of let them speak to that to themselves, but from what I understand, which I'll take some liberties and say what I think is going on, is there is a clause in an IndyPass that if someone leaves the IndyPass program.00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:55.000Joe Hession: They have to not work with anyone for another year. And it's kind of buried in the fine details. So I think what happened is I think they were off that pass, planned to be off that pass, maybe wasn't familiar with that clause, and then signed an agreement with us.00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:10.000Joe Hession: So for me, so the big question is, hey, so here's the choices as we sit today. We have a signed agreement. We've told Snow King, if this is going to hurt you, we never want to hurt you. So we are 100% willing to do whatever that takes.00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:12.000Joe Hession: to do it.00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:17.000Joe Hession: But, you know, we're not gonna just, like, bow down, because at the end of the day.00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:31.000Joe Hession: It's also on Indy, and maybe they… maybe they signed an agreement that wasn't… that was not the right thing to do. We have a signed agreement. They're on our paths, right? Um, at the end of the day, there's one person who can make a big choice here.00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:27.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:32.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:37.000Joe Hession: Is Indy gonna sue Snow King because of this clause in the piece?00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:54.000Joe Hession: I read in the Boston Globe that Eric Mogensen is going to, like, change and save skiing. Is he going to sue a small ski resort? Like, and I know that's blunt, but I would put the ball right back in his court. I would love to, you know, if he sues Snow King.00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:45.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:12.000Joe Hession: That would be an insane thing. And I think he should go out to everyone and say, you know what, we're not going to litigate. You know, I know he hasn't been operating a ski resort long, and I have a ton of respect because of the fact that the fact that he's a GM of a ski resort, the fact that he's operating a ski resort, there's not a single person. And I respect him.00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:27.000Joe Hession: I really do. I really do. There's just one piece that we don't see eye to eye on. And it's… he's told me he's the anti-collaborator, and I am the ultimate collaborator. So when you get us in the ring together, it's one is super collaboration and one isn't. And so to me.00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:39.000Joe Hession: I think, you know, the more he operates a ski resort, he's gonna realize that litigation is one of the hardest things we have to deal with in the ski business. We have realities of things that happen at ski resorts that involve litigation.00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:49.000Joe Hession: suing each other is just a waste of time. Like, what are we doing? Like, we should be, like, we need… we should be talking about skiing and snowboarding, and we should be thinking.00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:43.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:43:49.000 --> 00:44:09.000Joe Hession: how many visits can Indy give Snow King? I would love for them to get a ton of visits. How many visits can Snow Pass give Snow King? Let's get Snow King visits. Let's give people options. And just because of, like, some, uh, you know, red tape in a contract, we're then gonna threaten and clause, like.00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:53.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:28.000Joe Hession: So that's… so here's… so I gave you probably more than I should have, but… and I'm sure Hugh is no longer looking at me, so he… but he didn't give me the hook, so I'm still talking, right, Hugh? We're good? So, I'm sure… you know, but you'll definitely… you wanted to have, you know, for this inaugural session, you wanted to have some stories. This is a story.00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:39.000Joe Hession: The story is, the reality is, the truth is, that they were under contract, Indy, from what I understand, which they've told me, they wrote they are no longer to work, they gave them the right.00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:53.000Joe Hession: I'm out. This is the time you're supposed to be out. They were unaware of this one clause, which we were also unaware of. We signed, we moved forward, we announced. After announcement, it was, no, you can't do that. So, really, right now, I think Snow King would gladly take visits from both.00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:54.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:56.000Joe Hession: We would gladly take visits from both.00:44:56.000 --> 00:45:02.000Joe Hession: Ball's in Mogensen's court, we'll see what he does. I guess the best way to approach this is publicly. So, here.00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:00.000Stuart Winchester: And he…00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:16.000Stuart Winchester: I agree, and Eric is scheduled to be on this podcast on Thursday, so he will have his chance to respond. And you know what, Joe, you're welcome back anytime to respond. But before you go out the door, I do want… I did promise to keep these short, and I know for you and I.00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.000Joe Hession: Perfect!00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:12.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:16.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:31.000Stuart Winchester: Both, that's a challenge. I do want to call out some of these awesome new triple play partners, uh, Jiminy Peak and Cramore, especially. I have a ton of respect for the Fairbanks and, and, uh, what, and what they do. Uh, Bromont is, is an excellent.00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:28.000Joe Hession: Yeah.00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:51.000Stuart Winchester: edition, and Hallamont. Actually, Hallamont is on Snow Pass as well, which is a terrific skier. I never realized until I went there this year. It's just because it's private on the weekends and in public during the week. What do you have to do to convince some of these folks, especially Jiminy Cranmore Bromont, to jump over to Snow Pass? Do you think there's a path there?00:45:52.000 --> 00:46:10.000Joe Hession: Yeah, you know, I do. I think it's kind of proving it out over time, but also making, you know, going back to what I said earlier, maybe the right product for them is a relationship with different resorts, right? Maybe it's a whole new version of what happens, but I think we're very lucky to have them on the program.00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:25.000Joe Hession: Both operators are fantastic. Brian and Tyler Fairbank, we go back really far. Like, they were early adopters of us with snow operating and train-based learning. Brian Fairbank, if people don't know, is one of the godfathers of snowmaking in the industry.00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:16.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:40.000Joe Hession: He's still at it. He's in his 80s. He's out there making snow. I mean, he's an absolute legend. So anytime we get to work with him and his resort partners, we're really happy. Tyler, we've obviously known for well over a decade and a half as well.00:46:40.000 --> 00:47:00.000Joe Hession: great resorts, we've loved visiting them, and I think they're great operators, so I think people are going to love discovering them. And that's, you know, one thing I'll give a lot of credit to Indy for, which has opened our eyes, is the fact that there's so many passes on the program, there's the fact that there's all these different options. People learn new places they've never learned before, right? And I think Epic and I kind of have done the same.00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:55.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:15.000Joe Hession: You know, I never thought of going to Crested Butte, but because it's on the Epic Pass, I'm going to go to Crested Butte, or I never thought of going to this resort, but because of it. And I think that's been a huge success. And it's great to hear you say, like, Hollymont, like, oh, I didn't know that much about the.00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:05.000Stuart Winchester: Yep.00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:29.000Joe Hession: I think that's the spirit. The spirit is, how do you take skiers from different regions and inspire them to want to go to somewhere else and make that transaction seamless and easy for the operators to navigate, is really our goal.00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:49.000Stuart Winchester: It's such a rich world, and I love how you're helping folks explore it. Leave us with this, Joe. Where can we buy Snowpass? And I believe you said you're selling a limited number. You probably won't tell me that number, but how soon should folks go to where you're going to tell us to go before they're going to lose this special price of, I believe, 340 for Snowpass and 179?00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.000Stuart Winchester: For the triple play.00:47:52.000 --> 00:48:05.000Joe Hession: Correct. So, so 4pm today, mysnowpass.com, uh, it's gonna be a limited release. Uh, if you know the Mound Creek world, and you know how we do it, it's actually Mound Creek's on the clock right now.00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:22.000Joe Hession: Um, we've been selling for 31 minutes, so I'm gonna get an update when we get off the call here, but at 4 o'clock, we will have our watch party with our group in the kind of war room. We're watching the transactions live. We have a number that we have promised ourselves we will not exceed, and it'll shut itself down at that number.00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:09.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:40.000Joe Hession: Um, so 4PM today will be, uh… will be the birth of a new product in the industry, which hopefully will inspire other new products down the road, and… and hopefully start to change the relationship between resorts and… and the skiers, because that's what it's about. It's about getting skiers the best price for the best mountains, new… doing new things, and working together.00:48:40.000 --> 00:49:00.000Joe Hession: And we have a beautiful industry of resorts, but we have great customers. People who are skiers and snowboarders are so passionate. Like, I read everything they post on your stuff. You know, the comments have been just amazing. And, you know, we're looking forward to, over time, I want to make that person in Colorado that keeps saying, this pass stinks, has nothing to do for me.00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:51.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:09.000Joe Hession: I want to eventually win them over by giving them a product that does make sense for them or allowing resorts there to find a product that works for them. So it's really exciting day.00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:17.000Stuart Winchester: Colorado bro is very proud of Colorado. Uh, last year, Joe, you sold Snow Triple Play, I believe, until Christmas Eve. You have a similar schedule in mind for these two passes this year?00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:11.000Joe Hession: Yes.00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:32.000Joe Hession: Yeah, exactly the same schedule. So they'll be… the best price will be the launches. So today will be the lowest possible price, it'll scale up in another drop, and then it'll be on sale for a little bit at its full retail price, and then it'll turn off at that time. Exactly.00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:20.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:51.000Stuart Winchester: Joe, so good to run you down. Good luck with the launch. I can't wait to see how it goes, and how this thing grows, and frankly, how this little controversy between Snowpass and Indypass resolves itself, because I'm sure that you will find a way through it. So, thank you so much for being my first guest on the new platform. I really appreciate it.00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:35.000Joe Hession: Yes.00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:51.000Joe Hession: Okay.00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:54.000Stuart Winchester: You're welcome on anytime. We'll talk to you really soon.00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:56.000Joe Hession: Great. Thanks for having me.00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:57.000Stuart Winchester: All right, take care, Joe. Bye now.00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:00.000Stuart Winchester: Alright, so…00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:03.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, what do you…00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:23.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, so that was Joe Heschen, the CEO of Snow Partners and the founder. Quick update from another partner before I wrap up the show today. If you run a ski area or outdoor brand, I want to tell you about my friends at Bonfire Collective.00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:35.000Stuart Winchester: They are a fractional marketing team that collaborates with ski areas and outdoor brands, and they will give your marketing a fresh perspective and better storytelling to supercharge your rebranding or advertising.00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:41.000Stuart Winchester: Bonfire can help you rethink your approach in ways that can turbocharge your business.00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:49.000Stuart Winchester: For example, Bonfire took on the marketing at one New Hampshire ski area and doubled revenue in just three years.00:50:49.000 --> 00:51:04.000Stuart Winchester: When the storm was ready to invest in its first ever digital marketing campaign last year, I worked with Bonfire to make it happen. I could not be happier with the results, and I think you will love working with them as well. To get started, you'll want to talk to Eric.00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:21.000Stuart Winchester: over at Bonfire Collective. He was a co-founder of Bluebird Backcountry Colorado, the first human-powered ski area, so he knows the ski business. You can actually listen to his podcast episode on the Storm Skiing Podcast, long form. Visit bonfirecollective.com.00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:25.000Stuart Winchester: Or I will be happy to make that connection for you.00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:28.000Stuart Winchester: All right, how great was Joe?00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:45.000Stuart Winchester: This is why I love the new pod, because I can have guys like that on all the time. I have dozens of relationships like that throughout the ski industry. Anytime you've listened to a podcast and you've heard someone on there and you enjoyed the conversation.00:51:45.000 --> 00:52:01.000Stuart Winchester: Whether it was Carl Kapczynski, who runs California Mountain Resorts, or… and owns Mountain High, and Bear Valley, and China Peak, and Dodge Ridge out in California. Or if it was…00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:15.000Stuart Winchester: Dustin, who… the president at Copper Mountain, uh, or it was Rob Katz, you know, the Vale CEO. I'm interacting with these people, or… or the folks who represent them, all the time.00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:31.000Stuart Winchester: I talk to Carl Kabasinski all the time, but I haven't had him on the podcast in four years. He's already agreed to come on the new shorter form to talk about all the things going on in his mountains. And that's what's great about it. And, you know, one of the concerns that I heard from people when I announced a shorter form pod was.00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:47.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, well, I really like when you covered small mountains. Well, this will allow me to do that much more, because I don't have to commit an entire hour and a half long episode to it, and it doesn't have to be the whole history of the area. I can just, for example, ask.00:52:47.000 --> 00:53:02.000Stuart Winchester: Rick Schmitz from Little Switzerland in Wisconsin to come onto the show and talk about the new quad chairlift that he's putting up or two new quads put

Eighty percent of the world's population can't see the Milky Way. Light pollution interferes. Author and adventurer Craig Childs, of Norwood, Colorado, writes about a trek from light to dark in his book, "The Wild Dark: Finding the Night Sky in the Age of Light." It takes readers from the incandescence of Las Vegas to the spangled skies of rural Nevada. It was named a finalist this month for a Colorado Book Award in creative nonfiction. Childs spoke with Sr. Host Ryan Warner at the Mountain Words Festival in Crested Butte in May of 2025 after the book's release. 

TOVAH FELDSHUH JOINS ME TODAY And she’s one of those actresses that you know when you see her even if you don’t know her name. She is currently one of the stars of the most excellent show Nobody Wants This. She’s got a new film coming out and it’s the role she was born to play because it’s about her. Watch the trailer for Tovah here. She and director David Serrero join me today at 2:30 because the film is having it’s Colorado premiere in Crested Butte this weekend.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today... Montrose County approved about $60,000 in geotechnical drilling and water-flow analysis to determine how, whether, and at what cost the damaged, closed section of Kinikin Road can be safely repaired. And later... The Crested Butte Wildflower Festival runs July 10th through 19th, with several still-open events including art, guided hikes, ghost tours, photography, and yoga among the blooms.Support the show: https://www.montrosepress.com/site/forms/subscription_services/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Kind of like renters do, oil and gas operators must leave a deposit in case they make a mess. But an investigation by Denver journalist Joe Fassler found the state's failed to collect as much as $1 billion in bonding. Then, "Raising Colorado" looks at the challenges military families have finding childcare. Plus, we visit a French-inspired restaurant in Crested Butte which opens for the season on Friday. And get a behind-the scenes tour of the new Leonardo da Vinci Museum in Pueblo. 

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast still has a podcast. Get new episodes the moment they're live by subscribing to the email newsletter:WhoJohn Kelly, CEO of Taos Ski Valley, New MexicoRecorded onNovember 13, 2025About Taos Ski ValleyClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Louis Bacon (since December 2013)Located in: Taos Ski Valley, New MexicoYear founded: 1955Pass affiliations:* Ikon Pass – 7 days, no blackouts* Ikon Base Pass – 5 days, holiday blackouts* Ikon Session Pass – 1-4 days, holiday blackouts* Mountain Collective – 2 days, no blackouts* Ski New Mexico True Pass – 2 days, holiday blackoutsBase elevation: 9,350 feetSummit elevation: 12,450 feet lift-served, 12,481 hike-toVertical drop: 3,100 feet lift-served, 3,131 hike-to.Skiable acres: 1,294 (some hike-to)Average annual snowfall: 300 inches claimed on website; calculated 36-year average using data sourced from Taos' 2010 master development plan, Ski New Mexico tallies, and media reports is 233 inches. The 10-year average falls to 166 inches. Here's the year-by-year breakdown:Trail count: 110 (24% beginner, 25% intermediate, 51% expert)Lift count: 13 (1 pulse gondola, 2 high-speed quads, 2 fixed-grip quads, 4 triples, 1 double, 3 carpets)Why I interviewed himLet's start with a superficially troubling number: Taos' long, steady decline in average annual skier visits:That doesn't look so good, especially when laid alongside the long-term increase in national skier visits:Taos not only declined in the context of national skier visits, but also among its peers. In winter 1983-84, Taos drew more skiers (241,000) than Telluride (132,460), Big Sky (136,000), Jackson Hole (177,000), Whitefish (I'm lacking an estimate for that winter, but the ski area then known as “Big Mountain” logged 209,000 skiers in 1980-81 and 170,581 in 1985-86). Taos (dark blue line below), continued to out-duel this group through about the mid-90s before falling off a cliff:So what happened? 1995 Taos, a freeride mecca before freeride was cool, should have been perfectly suited to flourish in a cultural moment when skiers began demanding more interesting terrain than the groomed superhighways that had become the industry's default setting. Sure, Taos was remote and a bit harder to access than, say, Keystone or Park City, but so were Jackson and Whitefish and Big Sky and Telluride. A partial explanation: Taos stopped modernizing. After replacing the Lift 2 double with a fixed-grip quad in 1994, Taos didn't install another new chairlift for 19 years. The first detachable didn't arrive until 2018. The resort banned snowboards until 2008. Meanwhile, Big Sky laced a tram to the summit of Lone Peak in 1995 and started pushing detachable quads up the mountain; the first high-speed quads arrived at Telluride in 1986 and Whitefish in 1989.It's not a perfect narrative – while Jackson Hole rolled out its short Sublette detach in the mid-90s, the mountain didn't install an upper-mountain high-speed chairlift until Casper in 2012. Skier visits went up and up and up all that time, probably due in large part to aggressive improvements at the Jackson Hole airport.Maybe, though, it's as simple as this: banger snow years descended upon Taos – and New Mexico in general – from the late ‘80s through mid-‘90s. It's little surprise that attendance ups-and-downs largely mirror snowfall patterns:But, as the corresponding trendlines show, Taos' skier visits have not declined at the same rate as the mountain's average annual snowfall. And while Jackson's long-term average snowfall has remained relatively constant, attendance has crept steadily upward. Attendance spiked at both mountains when the 2018-19 season brought both plentiful snow and the introduction of the Ikon Pass:Unfortunately, Taos stopped reporting skier visits after the Covid-shortened 2019-20 season, so we have less concrete insight into whether the mountain's recent investments in a reconfigured beginner area and a second detachable on the backside have insulated it from two historically poor snow years. This is why it's nice to have basic visitation data, and why I'm pushing the ski industry to again publicize annual attendance for ski areas occupying public lands (since going live with a chart of 2,406 years of skier visit data for 97 ski areas with 10 or more years of attendance available, I'm up to 2,822 years across 108 ski areas, and I have a total of 3,802 years of data across 184 active U.S. ski areas for which I could find at least one year of attendance).We do know this: Taos doesn't want to return to the world of 300,000-plus skier visits. Somewhere between 250,000 and 275,000 is the “right number for the experience we want Taos to have,” Kelly tells us on the pod. Meaning: fewer skiers spread via a modern lift network is a better business than 364,000 skiers funneling onto double chairs. This flips the busiest-equals-best narrative that made skier-visit counts a 20th-century bragging point. I've heard the same logic articulated by the leaders of Killington, Waterville Valley, and other ski areas that have created a better business even with fewer skiers on their mountains. Jackson Hole, too, halted its relentless upward surge – that 2020-21 dip was deliberate, as the mountain exited Ikon Base and implemented a reservation system.This approach makes sense to me. With U.S. skier visits surging (until this year) and an Ikon or Epic pass in every pocket, no one wants to brag about being busy anymore. Space is the new volume. Social media can still transform one bad liftline into an eternal meme, but at least most skiers on the ground will have a better day most of the time than they probably would have 30 years ago.What doesn't make sense to me is why, in a less-is-more era, ski area operators have suddenly decided that skier visits should be guarded like Fort Knox. If fewer skiers is a good thing and a stated goal, why hide the numbers? The resorts ought to just say “Hey we've deliberately reduced our annual skier count from 300,000 to 250,000 [or whatever] to create a better mountain for you.” Instead, this secrecy around volume just looks cagey - if national skier visit numbers are up, then why should skiers just believe ski areas when they say “trust us, it's better now,” and offer no data to support it? Perception is reality, and today's skiing zeitgeist, as channeled by social media, tells us that American skiers perceive busier mountains today than they did a decade ago.But I'm getting off track. Since Louis Bacon bought Taos in 2013, he's funded an almost-complete renovation of what had become America's most decrepit destination ski resort. I don't think any mountain operating on U.S. Forest Service lands has more completely remade itself in the past decade (rapidly changing Big Sky, Deer Valley, and Powder Mountain operate on private property). Glimmering new but reset to 1970s volume, Taos is beautifully positioned to tap a skiing public that's burned-out on Colorado and Utah crowds but accustomed to modern lifts and snowmaking.What we talked aboutTaos as a family ski mountain; last winter's Chair 7 upgrade and custom terminals; owner Louis Bacon's mission to “improve everything without changing a thing”; why Taos changed from Skytrac to parent company Leitner-Poma for its newer lifts; Taos' great base-area reorganization; the story behind the Free Tacos run; a green run from the top of every lift other than the fierce Kachina triple; Taos' massive evolution since 2015; whether the mountain is committed to long-term independence; the founding Blake family's legacy and presence at Taos today; executing rapid development on Forest Service land; [VIDEO BONUS: Cat photobombing]; running Taos with the context of having worked at also-independent Telluride; becoming a skier growing up in Nashville, Tennessee; Telluride's evolution from semi-affordable to gigantic housing puzzle; employee housing at Taos; the logic behind the proposed base-to-base gondola and navigating local opposition; thoughts on the evolution of lifts 2 and 8; preserving parts of the hike-to ski experience; Taos' evolution after the Kachina Peak lift; lift 7A; the Minnesotas glades from the masterplan; avalanche mitigation; old-school boot-packing; parking lot evolutions; an ideal annual skier visit number and why that number is below historic highs; and getting to Taos.What I got wrong* When we discuss the wood-paneled terminals on Taos' new Lift 7, I ask if they're thematically related to the “wood RFID gates.” This is a reference to an earlier conversation that I cut, about Taos finally installing RFID for the 2025-26 ski season (the gates carry a wood theme). * I said that the trees skier's left of the Pioneer chair were not a named run, but they in fact are, and “Free Tacos” has a pretty awesome story behind it.* I accidentally asked Kelly to, “lay out the housing landscape for Telluride” but meant to say “Taos.” I didn't catch this in real time, but Kelly – who spent several years at Telluride before moving to Taos in 2015 – caught it and course-corrected.Questions I wished I'd askedTaos' 2010 USFS masterplan proposed a 7,045-foot-long, 2,363-vertical-foot detach quad that would have run parallel to Lift 1 to the top of Lift 2:We did, however, discuss the proposed 545-vertical-foot, 991-foot-long Ridge Lift off of Lift 8, and why Taos nixed that machine from its latest MDP:Why you should (or shouldn't) ski TaosTaos, like Jackson Hole or Snowbird or Palisades Tahoe, has a toughguy reputation. The place ripples with hike-to chutes and glades. To calm visitors shocked by the vertical bump run rocketing skyward beneath Chair 1, Taos to erected this base-area sign decades ago:The sign refers to the infamous Al's Run, which typically ripples with moguls, but was closed on my last visit, in March 2025 (Lift 1 was open):Taos certainly has plenty of nasty. The terrain ripping off the Kachina Peak triple is among the steepest inbounds terrain I'm aware of in America. But what shocked me about the place was how approachable it was for my then-8-year-old son, a solid but very intermediate skier. Every chair other than Kachina offers a top-to-bottom green – and some mostly mellow blues – making Taos one of the better family mountains in America.A lot of the solid-black terrain sits above the lifts, and requires a short, easy hike. If you've ever humped up Catherine's at Alta or Spanky's Ladder on Blackcomb, the ascent off of Lift 2 over to Highline Ridge or West Basin Ridge isn't much longer, and it flattens out considerably after the short incline. Unlike East Wall at A-Basin or Highlands Bowl at Aspen Highlands, this is hike-up terrain that's approachable for people who (like me), live at sea level and only like going up the mountain on machines. The runs are steep, and solo missions are discouraged, but the easy-in and proximity to lifts means a strong skier could reasonably expect to tuck a half-dozen hike-up laps into an afternoon. Here I am huffing and puffing right off Chair 2:Dang those trees are steep even right off the jump. Crunch crunch crunch:Go up a bit higher, and things get Lord of The Rings pretty fast:Taos' only real buyer-beware statistic is its insane base elevation of 9,350 feet, which makes everything, especially sleep, a bit more challenging. That altitude is actually a bit lower than the bases at Copper (9,712) or Breck (9,600). I start to have trouble functioning around 8,000 feet, which is the Vail (8,120), Snowmass (8,110), Snowbird (7,760), and Mammoth (7,953) range. So maybe see how you do at one of those burners before leveling up above 9,000 feet. Or at least arrive knowing that Taos will try punching you in the face. Hydrate and lay off the beer bongs for a day or two. You'll be fine.Podcast NotesOn Stadeli liftsWe've got 16 of these guys left across 10 U.S. ski areas, including Lift 7A at Taos:On the character of old chairliftsI wrote last year that U.S. ski lifts' overall design aesthetic has deteriorated with the decline in number of manufacturers and a tacit emphasis on technology over beauty.And I love old Riblets and Halls and Yans, but sentimentalism that locks skiing in a time capsule ultimately stalls long-term growth and invites disaster-by-disintegration. Rather than fight to live in a museum, I've adopted a quest mentality to ride as many of these dinosaurs as I can before they go extinct:On Taos' base-area fliparoundOn Taos' current masterplanHere's the conceptual overview of Taos' 2021 U.S. Forest Service master development plan:The major unrealized part of this is the base-to-base gondola - here's the most recent plan for that lift:On “class A avalanche mountains” with more than 200 slidepathsKelly mentioned that Taos' more than 200 slidepaths earn it the designation of a Class A avalanche mountain. I of course went looking for a list of U.S. ski areas so classified, and of course did not find one. In a rare exercise in self-restraint, however, I also did not create one. A quick Google search suggests that that such a list would include Alta, Kirkwood, and Stevens Pass alongside Taos. I would also assume that Alpine Meadows, Palisades, Mammoth, Snowbird, Big Sky, Silverton, and Crested Butte are among the most avy prone. That is not a complete list or an attempt at one so please don't write that I “forgot about” some particularly avalanche-prone mountain that I'm not trying very hard to remember.On The Storm's first Taos podcastThe Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

The Hills, Season 3 Episode 19Lauren finally gets her long-awaited shot at Paris… but are the Paris guys really an upgrade from Brody? We're breaking down all the romance, questionable flirting, and fashion internship chaos. Meanwhile, Heidi escapes to Crested Butte to hide out from Spencer… until, of course, he shows up anyway. From awkward reunions to classic Hills drama, we're recapping it all on this week's episode of Millennial TeaV.Instagram: @millennialteavFacebook: Millennial TeaV podcastTiktok: @millennialteavpodcastE-mail: millennialteav@gmail.com

In this In Case You Missed It (ICYMI) episode of the I Hear Design podcast, we revisit an article by Nicholas McWhirter, AIA, NCARB, design principal and studio head at SHM Architects, on what it means for architecture to truly listen. Through projects at the Dallas Arboretum and Botanical Society and in Crested Butte, Colorado, McWhirter examines how community spaces can be shaped by history, landscape, and long-term use. Rather than replicate historic architecture or impose a disconnected contemporary gesture, these projects demonstrate a more nuanced approach: translating precedent, designing for transformation, and treating land as an active part of the program. The episode explores how adaptable pavilions, framed views, and long-term institutional relationships can create spaces that serve communities across seasons, events, and generations.

It's a Saturday morning and Mike just got back from a presidential suite in Crested Butte while Denver panicked over a snow day that never showed up. This week Tony and Mike dive into wild science — a neon pink rainforest bug that transforms colors, coffee rewiring your gut bacteria (decaf included, so no excuses), and the five distinct eras your brain goes through — spoiler: you peaked at 32. We also get into why Neanderthals really went extinct, the newly de-extinct dire wolves that are somehow already 115 pounds, the government's UFO document dump, and whether AI has an ego problem. Plus: norovirus horror stories, bear attack survival odds, and a coworker who eats raw meat straight from the package like a candy bar. Episode 276 has something for everyone — unless you're a Neanderthal.Cheers!m&t#MikeAndTonyShow #Podcast #ComedyPodcast #ScienceNews #WeirdNews #BrainFacts #GutHealth #Coffee #DireWolves #CRISPR #Neanderthals #UFOs #AITech #WildlifeWednesday #Bears #Sharks #NatureTalk #ColoradoPodcast #FunnyPodcast #TrueCrime #Episode276 #PodcastLife #LearnSomethingNew #WeeklyPodcast #TalkShow

Chris Garcin is living a ski bum or anyone's dream life and it all began when his good friend broke a pair of sunglasses.  This week's podcast is Chris's story of going from a passionate skier his whole life, to Boulder, to coaching, to almost giving up on the ski lifestyle and settling for "real world." And then, his rockstar of a good friend came over to his house with an idea, Pit Viper, that became a joke, a brand, a business, and today, a real business. The Pit Viper story is a fun one and former VP of Brand, Spencer Harkins, asks the Inappropriate Questions. Chris Garcin Show Notes: 4:00: Reeling in, Colorado, Ski Club, Crested Butte, Vail, and Utah 21:00: Elan Skis:  Over 75 years of innovation that makes you better. 22:00: Chuck Mumford, the real Pit Viper Origin Story, what did ownership look like on paper, early road antics, early diy product, running out of that product and Larry The Enticer 39:00: Outdoor Research: Click here for 25% off Outdoor Research products (not valid on sale items or pro products) 40:00: Other influencers, when did he get rich, post pandemic mistakes, giving away stuff, imitation and fake products, and normie glasses.  57:00: Inappropriate Questions with Spencer Harkins

"Doubt and belief can coexist. In the book, you see a ton of my doubts and struggles with confidence. But then there's also this untouchable belief that's always there, too. So it's almost like, which voice are you going to listen to?" It's a big week for professional runner Sara Hall! She turns 43 tomorrow, and then heads east to race the Boston Marathon on Monday. And while most marathoners are recovering on Tuesday, Sara, in true Sara form, will be doing the opposite: It's book launch day! Sara's debut memoir, For the Love of the Grind, comes out April 21, and in this conversation, Sara talks about why the time was right to write a book. She talks about what the writing process was like, about the part of the book that's likely to shock readers, and about why she wanted to get in touch with Eminem before the book came out. Plus, how she's feeling heading into Boston 2026. SPONSOR: Lagoon. Click here to take Lagoon's 2-minute sleep quiz to see which pillow is right for you, and use code ALI at checkout for 15% off your next Lagoon order. FOLLOW SARA @sarahall3 IN THIS EPISODE: All about Sara's workout in Crested Butte, what's making her happy today, and what husband Ryan is up to these days (2:10) Reflecting on 11 years since Sara made her marathon debut at the L.A. Marathon (6:00) Sara's advice to this year's Boston Marathoners — especially those whose training may not have gone perfectly (10:00) How Sara is feeling heading into the 2026 Boston Marathon (11:50) Sara isn't the only Hall running Boston: Eldest daughter Hana is running, too! (16:10) Sara's plans for her 43rd birthday this week (22:00) Why Sara always tosses her watch mid-marathon (24:20) For the Love of the Grind: Why Sara decided to write a book now, and what the writing process was like (27:25) Why Sara wanted to get in touch with Eminem, and what it was like recording the audiobook (34:00) The part of the book that made me gasp — and the story behind it (39:15) On 21 years with ASICS (43:45) Who is this book for? (47:55) What's exciting for Sara on the run right now? (48:50) Sara's superlatives: talking about the most fun, most challenging, and most memorable races of her career (58:55) Follow Ali: Instagram @aliontherun1 Subscribe to the newsletter Join the Facebook group Support on Patreon SUPPORT the Ali on the Run Show! If you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. Spread the run love. And if you liked this episode, share it with your friends!

As we limp into the final weeks of winter, Sun outdoors reporter Jason Blevins has insights on the latest Vail Resorts earnings, a change at Alterra and the world’s most social hermit citizen scientist who has been collecting snow data for more than 50 years above Crested Butte.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The SAVE America Act is supposed to ensure the integrity of your vote, but President Trump also wants it to eliminate mail-in ballots which are widely popular in Colorado. Our Washington, D.C. reporter Caitlyn Kim updates the chances Congress will take action. Also, what's the impact if after-school funding is cut in Colorado? Then, Colorado's new women's soccer team, the Denver Summit, kicks off its inaugural season. Later, she grew up in Crested Butte, met Philip Seymour Hoffman in New York, and became a Hollywood producer whose film is up for 13 Academy Awards on Sunday. Plus, the lack of snow puts cross-country ski spots on edge, and a memory-filled goodbye to a long-standing community gathering place in Boulder, the World Famous Dark Horse. 

If you're a wedding photographer who thinks you have to choose between getting the photo OR the video, this episode is going to completely rewire how you think about hybrid shooting.In this live Hang w/ Shay episode of the Hybrid Hangout podcast, I'm breaking down the exact mental framework I use on a wedding day so I'm never guessing, never scrambling, and never worried about missing something.Here's the core of it:You're not taking one photo and then grabbing random clips.You're capturing the same five perspectives as BOTH photo and video so you walk away with complete coverage every time.Wide photo → 5-second wide videoLong photo → 5-second long videoClose photo → 5-second close videoDetail photo → 5-second detail videoB-roll photo → 5-second b-roll videoThat's the system. It keeps you grounded in how photographers already see scenes while layering in just enough motion to tell a story later.This isn't about turning yourself into a filmmaker overnight. It's about realizing you already know how to see moments. You just need a repeatable plan for what to capture while you're there.We also talk about why more cameras and bigger teams don't automatically make you a better hybrid shooter, how intentional coverage actually improves your galleries, and the mindset shift that makes hybrid feel simple instead of overwhelming.MEDIA REC:Go watch something visually stunning and study the framing and storytelling. A few ideas: Pride and Prejudice (2005), One Day on Netflix, or Age of Adeline. Pay attention to what each shot is doing in the story, then try applying that thinking to your next wedding.DM me what you watched and what inspired you: https://www.instagram.com/hybridhangout/FLOWERS:Shoutout to Emily from ETC Photography and Elevated Shoots for her inclusive styled shoot series in Crested Butte this July.https://www.instagram.com/elevatedshootsetc/If you take one thing from this episode, let it be this: hybrid shooting doesn't require more coverage, it just requires more intention.Try the five-perspective approach at your next wedding, even if it's just during one part of the day, and watch how much more confident you feel going into the edit.And if you want help actually implementing this into your business, DM me @hybridhangout or book a call and we can talk about whether Hybrid Hub is the right move for you.BOOK A CALL: https://montanadiaries.hbportal.co/schedule/6998c7e634e3bd00335c5184Hybrid Hub is my program for wedding and elopement photographers who want to add video, raise their prices, and build a business that makes sense long term. If you're curious whether it's the right move, book a free clarity call. We'll talk through your goals and what's actually going to move the needle. Even if you don't join, you'll walk away with real direction. BOOK YOUR CALLThanks for listening to Hybrid Hangout!! Don't forget to rate and review on your fave podcast platform -- it helps me grow, get amazing guests, and climb in the charts! DM me a screenshot of your review so I can say thanks :) Andddd say hi @hybridhangout on Instagram!

Cam Smith is a pro trail runner and ski mountaineer living in Crested Butte, CO. Anna Gibson is a pro trail runner and ski mountaineer living in Jackson Hole, WY. Together they are representing Team USA at the winter olympics in the Mixed Relay SkiMo race. This is the first time skimo has been included in the Olympic Games but the sport has gained increasing popularity in recent years, especially among top trail runners who often pursue the sport competitively or recreationally in the winter months.    Chapters: 03:55 Introduction to Olympic Aspirations 06:46 The Emotional Finish at Solitude 09:53 Personal Journeys to the Olympics 12:43 Understanding the Mixed Relay Format 16:06 The Stakes of the Solitude Race 19:07 Margin of Victory and Team Dynamics 21:55 Recruitment and Team Building 24:48 Transition Skills in Ski Mountaineering 28:00 Lessons from Trail Running Competitions 35:21 Building Confidence Through Competition 36:26 Mentorship and Team Dynamics 38:24 Strategic Preparation for World Championships 39:04 The Evolution of Ski Mountaineering in North America 41:22 Lessons from Olympic Inclusion 44:07 Navigating Individual vs. Team Formats 47:55 The Journey to Team USA 50:48 Embracing Inexperience as a Strength 52:24 Final Training Push Before the Olympics 56:45 Mindset and Competition 01:00:35 Overcoming Health Challenges 01:04:04 Family Support and Emotional Moments 01:08:04 Looking Ahead to Future Goals     Sponsors:   Grab a trail running pack from Osprey Use code FREETRAIL25 for 25% off your first order of NEVERSECOND nutrition at never2.com   Freetrail Links: Website | Freetrail Pro | Patreon | Instagram | YouTube | Freetrail Experts   Dylan Links: Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn | Strava

Today, Chuck discusses a truly awful bill attempting to criminalize trans people in West Virginia. Then, Chuck hangs out with Addie Levy and Ben Morrison from the band The Brothers Comatose.  We discuss their origin story, musical influences, and how AI is shaping—and threatening—the music industry. Relevant links for Brothers ComatoseCheck out their website https://www.thebrotherscomatose.com/BUY their music on Bandcamp https://thebrotherscomatose.bandcamp.com/Intro/Outro/Transition Music: “Blue Mountain” by The Brothers Comatose.  Buy it here! https://thebrotherscomatose.bandcamp.com/track/blue-mountainBrothers Comatose upcoming tour datesFeb 25 - Crested Butte, COFeb 26 - Telluride, COFeb 27 - Basalt, COFeb 28 - Nederland, COMar 4 - Pioneertown, CAMar 5 - Phoenix, AZMar 6 - Solana Beach, CAMar 7 - Ventura, CAMar 20 - Denver, COMar 21 - Park City, UTApr 17 - Austin, TXApr 23 - La Tuna, MexicoApr 28 - Manteo, NCApr 30 - Isle of Palms, SCMay 1 - Mills River, NCMay 2 - Raleigh, NCMay 3 - Elkins, NCMay 8 - Santa Cruz, CAMay 9 - Chico, CAMay 15-17 - Placerville, CAJun 19-21 - San Luis Obispo, CAJun 24-27 - Owensboro, KY-----------------------------------------------HELP SUPPORT APPODLACHIA! patreon.com/appodlachia-----------------------------------------------The views and opinions expressed on this show are the personal opinions of the host, Chuck Corra, and do not represent the opinions of his employer. This show is an opinion and commentary show, NOT a news show. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Send us a textSupport the show

Why is reviewer and heli-skiing guide Paul Forward in Crested Butte testing skinny skis? How did Luke Koppa end up being the one in a helicopter? And why have Luke and Jonathan been able to test the same new ski boot? Today we discuss it all, as well as a bunch of new freeride skis from 4FRNT and Heritage Lab; Jonathan swapping skis with Daron Rahlves; Luke face-planting in front of some other pro skiers, and more.RELATED LINKS:Episode Sponsor: CarvEpisode Sponsor: SnowbirdEpisode Sponsor: OpenSnowEnter Our Weekly Gear GiveawaysOur Blister Recommended ShopsJoin Us At Blister Summit 2026For BLISTER+ Members: Discounted Blister Summit RegistrationGet Yourself Covered with BLISTER+CHECK OUT OUR YOUTUBE CHANNELS:Blister Studios (our new channel)Blister Review (our original channel)TOPICS & TIMES:Carv (1:38)Snowbird & Giveaway (2:23)Luke's Trip Report (5:39)Jonathan's Trip Report (15:43)Salomon S/Pro Alpha C BOA (21:24)4FRNT Sinister (32:28)Heritage Lab Skis (37:08)Part 2: Jonathan & Paul Forward (41:05)Testing Ski Boots, Skis, & Carv (45:35)CHECK OUT OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Blister CinematicCRAFTEDBikes & Big IdeasBlister Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Ski Moms welcome legendary skier Wendy Fisher, whose name is synonymous with both Olympic racing and big mountain freeskiing. Wendy started skiing at age 2 in Squaw Valley (now Palisades Tahoe), chasing her older brothers down the hill. After losing one of her brothers in a tragic accident, she poured her grief into skiing—eventually making the U.S. Ski Team and competing in the 1992 Winter Olympics.Wendy opens up about the emotional toll of elite racing, how fear of failure held her back, and what finally pushed her to walk away at age 23. A soul-searching road trip led her to Crested Butte, where she entered her first big mountain contest and redefined the sport by skiing bold lines no woman had attempted before. She went on to become a two-time World Extreme Skiing Champion and star in iconic films by Warren Miller and Matchstick Productions.Now based in Crested Butte, Wendy shares how she's reinvented herself many times—becoming a mom of two, ski instructor, DJ, and event coordinator. She talks about teaching through Vail Resorts' “Ski with an Olympian” program and her ongoing love for skiing and community.Resources:Website: WendyFisher.meSki with Wendy: Available at Crested Butte and Epic Pass resortsDJ Services: DJ Red for events and weddingsAprès Ski: The Beckwith (formerly Elevation Spa), Crested Butte Mountain Resort base areaNotable Quotes:"I felt so much guilt for losing the love of skiing, because by the end of my racing career, I just dreamed of when I was 7 and skiing at Squaw, having fun, hitting jumps, playing. Like, skiing used to be so fun. Where did it go?""When that crowd noticed where I was SHOP HEREUse Code SKIMOMS for 15% off all labels. Code is not valid on sale items or stamps. Other restrictions may apply.  There  are 4 events happening this year at: Sugarbush, Sunday River and Stratton, plus a cross country skiing event at the von Trapp Family Lodge in Stowe. Register here, spots are limited https://www.theskimoms.co/events Hey Ski Moms—let's talk staying warm.  Ski Haus isn't just a gear shop—it's where smart ski moms go to get outfitted for the whole family.  Head to skihaus.com to check store hours and directions. Find your perfect family-friendly mountain stay—or list your own! 

Images of overrun apartment buildings in Colorado -- and severed fingers -- landed in the president's Venezuela speech over the weekend, part of Donald Trump's justification for his actions in Venezuela. Justice reporter Allison Sherry provides some context. Then, Colorado had to try hard to become a state. It took five attempts over two decades. In time for this year's sesquicentennial, History Colorado lays out the saga. Also, four generations of the Gresham family have weathered blizzards, drought and long nights in the calving barn -- all on the same land for more than a century. The Gresham Farm was recently named a Centennial Farm. And, Ski Mountaineering is new at this year's Olympics. The games take place in February in Italy. Crested Butte's Cam Smith will be there. 

Bruce & James recap the technology shifts of 2025 and look ahead to what may be ahead in 2026.Resources:Register for the Winter Tech Forum (March 2-6 2026 in Crested Butte, Colorado)The Eternal Return of Abstraction: Why Programming Was Never About CodeThinking in Typesjavadocs.devWhat's New in EmbabelDiscuss this episode: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠discord.gg/XVKD2uPKyF

Runways: Part 4 Amy’s Trip to the Rockies By m storyman x – listen to the Podcast at Steamy Stories. "All I know is she wanted you to follow the directions in the note. I have no idea what it is, but as long as it doesn't crash the plane, I'd say it'd be best to do them. I mean you know how damn irritating she can get when her suggestions aren't followed." "Suggestions? Is that what you call em?" "She thinks they're suggestions." I chuckled. "She does?" "Yeah." I said. "So. In the last three days, you two have, what? Chatted?" "Well, there isn't all that much to do up there if you don't fish or hike, and you know how much she loves the outdoors." "Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if she'd even go outside at all if she could avoid it." Amy said. "I understand. So what's the note say?" "Just some personal stuff." "Personal stuff?" I persisted. "Yeah. You know. Personal stuff." "Okay. So that personal stuff made me fly all the way back to Chicago, not counting the nearly two hours of a rough Jeep ride down the mountain and back up. I'd kinda like to know what kind of personal stuff was so important." "She's mad at me." Amy admitted. "About?" I asked as I leveled the plane off at fifteen thousand feet. "Hang on a second. "Chicago center. X-ray Alpha Gulf Foxtrot Seven level at fifteen thousand." "Roger X-ray Alpha Gulf Foxtrot Seven. Contact Minneapolis center on three two one point three zero. Have a good day!" "Roger Chicago center. Switching to Minneapolis center on three two one three zero." I answered. Before turning back to Amy. "So why's she mad at you?" "Because of you." "Me?" I asked. "Uh huh. You told her that I would sleep with you for a weekend if you took her with you." "Yeah. I did. Just kinda came out in a discussion." I explained. "A discussion? Must have been some discussion." "Actually, it was an angry one. But then that first day we had more than one of those." "I take it she didn't much like the trip?" "She didn't like the ride up to the cabin, she didn't like that there's no indoor plumbing, she didn't like that there's no cell phone service up there, no electricity, and no computer. Should I go on? It only took me about five minutes and I'd had enough and threw her in the lake. The conversation came later." "So you what? Threatened to bring her home and she's now refusing?" "Something like that. Said she wasn't going anywhere until I went and got you. So here I am." "So here we are," she agreed. "What was so bad about the ride to the cabin?" I looked over at her sitting in her high heels and light weight mini-dress, the front plunge neckline cut down well below her very hefty breasts, thinking just how much fun I was going to have on the drive up the mountain, since that particular style dress pretty much prevented wearing any kind of bra. I'd always thought she had pretty nice looking tits, though I'd never seen them bare. I suspected that before the day was out I would. We made good time and soon landed at Crested Butte. Ten minutes of work to prep the plane for storage again and we were off in the well-worn Jeep. As the wind whipped around through the missing doors it kept blowing her skirt up her legs. I couldn't help but grin to myself at the sight of her lacy pink panties, the hard cock growing in my shorts. While I found Kim attractive, physically, I found Amy attractive in many more ways. I'd always wondered why she's spurned my obvious flirts, until Kim dropped the bomb on me that the two of them were more than just friends, but lovers as well. But even knowing that didn't stop my body from reacting to the attraction I felt for her. I turned off the highway and onto the gravel road, the Jeep bouncing and jolting at each hole, making her large tits bounce enticingly in the dress top. My stiff cock was almost uncomfortable in my shorts by the time I pulled off the gravel onto the winding dirt track I called a road up to the cabin. We bounced and jostled over the rough track, Amy's lovely boobs bouncing clear out of the top of her dress every so often. "It's getting late. We should have stopped for supper," she said, hanging onto the seat with one hand and the windshield with the other "Not a problem. Kim said she'd have dinner ready when we got back," I said as I gripped the wheel with both hands as I approached the same log that Kim had stripped at. "Kim? Cook? You do live dangerously!" she said as the front wheels launched over the log, the Jeep coming down hard on the other side. I eased the rear wheels up to the log and bounced over it, stopping on the other side. I shut the engine down, letting the sounds of the wind through the pines waft over us. "So. This is pretty much where it started." "Where what started?" Amy was confused. "The conversations. She was having some wardrobe trouble, kind of like you," I said nodding down toward the front of her dress where one of her large round breasts had shifted enough to completely expose one of her nipples and about half of her areola. She looked down, squeaked a little and pulled her dress top to cover her exposed nipple. "Sorry about that," she mumbled, blushing a little. "No need to apologize. I've been enjoying the view," I answered honestly. "Anyway, she was having more trouble than that, and I said I'd let her change into something more appropriate. Surprisingly, her version of more appropriate was to get completely naked." "She stripped? Right here?" "Uh huh. Rode the rest of the way up to the cabin naked. Worked out okay though. That way she didn't have a lot of wet clothes when I threw her in the lake." "Well, she's been seen by a lot of guys naked. I guess you're just one more on the list." "Yeah. Sorta. I agreed that it wasn't fair and let her convince me to strip too." "You? You stripped naked with her?" "Well, after her, but yeah," I said suddenly feeling a little self conscious. "And she wanted you to?" Amy marveled. "She said it was the fair thing to do." "Sometimes I don't understand her." "Well, you'll understand this less then. She wanted you to do the same thing. Something about if you showed up at the cabin dressed that she'd personally throw You into the lake, and the lake isn't exactly warm." "She wants me to strip? In front of you?" "That's what she said." "And if I don't?" "You get thrown in the lake, and just so you know, the lake temperature right now is about sixty degrees." "And what? You're supposed to just sit there and watch me?" "Nope. I'm supposed to strip with you." I added. "Wait. She wants both of us to get naked? What's she thinking?" "She's your boss. You tell me." I rebutted. "Well, I'm not going to! Not in front of you!" she said, crossing her arms over her chest. I looked down at my watch. "Well, we've got plenty of time. You made better time to the airport than I expected," I said, leaning back and putting one foot up on the hump between the seats. She sat for long seconds, her arms crossed in front of her. "Why?" she finally asked. "Why what?" "Why do I have to get naked?" "I guess because she wants you too." "I think it's just to humiliate me." "Humiliate you? How so? I mean weren't you the one that suggested that you'd have sex with me for a whole weekend to get me to take her on vacation with me? I mean, come on now. Getting undressed in front of me is now somehow humiliating? You'd have to have gotten undressed in front of me for that, right?" "Well. Yeah." "So getting undressed to get me to take her wouldn't be, but getting undressed after I did, is?" "That does sound kind of stupid, doesn't it?" Amy admitted. "Uh huh." "So you have to get undressed too?" She said, not quite believing my claims. "That's what she said." "Okay. So you go first." Amy negotiated. "Alright. As long as you realize that I'm not moving this Jeep until you're naked," I said as I moved to climb out of the Jeep. I pulled my t-shirt off and tossed it on the seat, quickly skimming my shorts off and tossing them on the pile I was making. I took a quick, deep breath and pushed down my boxer briefs, my hard cock poking out and waving around as I lifted each leg to step out of my underwear. I added the underwear to the pile and then moved the whole pile between the seats. "Okay. Your turn," I said as I sat back down in the bucket seat, my dick sticking up like a flag pole. She sat, staring at my engorged shaft and mushroom head. "God you're hard. Are you turned on by this? By me getting naked?" "A bit," I answered honestly. "I mean you know that I've been attracted to you since I met you. I’ve been upfront about that. Having your tits popping out of that dress all the way up here hasn't hurt any either." The Requisite Nude Arrival "God damn. Men are all the same. Fine. You wanna see me naked?" she asked as she undid her seat belt and stepped out of the Jeep. She quickly pulled the dress up and over her head, tossing it between the seats before reaching down and pushing the tiny pink lace panties down and off, her easily D cup tits swinging side to side as she stepped from foot to foot. Her nipples were nearly as large around as my index finger, sticking out almost as far as they were wide, each one centered in the middle of a three inch or larger pink circle of puckered areola. Her stomach was trim, but not muscular, and her thighs looked creamy and soft. Unlike Kim, she wasn't uniformly tanned, leaving large cream colored triangle shaped patches on each breast and between her legs. Unlike Kim, she wasn't shaved, but had a nicely trimmed little arrow of dark auburn curls pointing toward her fat puffy pussy lips. I lost sight of her below the waist as she walked around the Jeep, stopping at the door space next to my seat. "Well? You wanna do it here?" "Huh?" I asked stupidly. She stepped to the side and rested her hands on the back fender, bending over and sticking her ass out, her big tits swinging below her chest. "That's the idea isn't it? That's what all you guys want. Get em naked and then fuck em? Well, I promised you a fuck, why not come get it?" I shook my head in amazement. "You know. This is the kind of thing I'd have expected from Kim. Not you. You've always been nice, sweet, gentle. This... This is... This is just not the YOU I've seen." "Well, it's the me you get when you wanna treat me like a piece of meat. So come fuck me and get it over with." I didn't bother to move from my seat. "Yeah. I'd love to have sex with you. But not like this," I said shaking my head. "Why not? You're a guy, right? Isn't that the goal? Strip um and fuck um?" "Not all guys are like that. I’m surprised by your bigoted prejudices" "The hell they aren't," she said as she straightened up and started back around the Jeep. She climbed in and buckled her seat belt. "Well. I'm naked. Let's go." "If you say so." I answered, reaching down and starting the engine. I was more than a little surprised at her sudden change in demeanor, and I had no idea what had caused it. Since I'd known her she'd been nothing but sweet. While the naked thing, suggested by Kim, was supposed to be a bit of an ice breaker between the two of us, something that Kim THOUGHT that Amy wanted. Now I wasn't so sure. Maybe going to get her had been a big mistake. Maybe something in the note, which I hadn't read, and now wished I had, was provoking this response. Either way, I wasn't nearly as turned on as I was only minutes ago. Even watching her bare breasts bounce and sway as we made our way up the rough road wasn't having the effect on me one would expect. No, suddenly I wasn't convinced that the rest of the week was going to be all that my mind had conjured up. "So. What did her note say?" I asked as we bounced through a particularly deep rut. "Just some stuff," she said evasively. "Is that what's got you upset?" I asked, gripping the wheel tightly and glancing over at her. "Partly." "Partly? What's the other part?" "You." She blurted. "Me? What did I do?" "Well, for one thing, you weren't exactly honest with me." I was pretty sure I knew what she was talking about, me telling her it was an emergency to get her out here. But I wasn't going to offer. "How so?" I asked, instead. She twisted herself in her seat and glared at me. "You said this was an emergency. Somehow, getting naked in the woods with you doesn't FEEL like an emergency. You also got naked with Kim. That by itself isn't exactly normal. Have you been fucking her too?" I stopped the Jeep and looked over at her. "I thought you two were lovers. What makes you think that she'd even have any interest in having sex with a guy, let alone me?" "Just the fact that she told you that, makes me believe something else is going on here. She wouldn't say that unless you'd tried to push yourself on her. Is that what made her so mad? You got naked around her and couldn't keep your hands off of her? I thought you were different. I though you weren't like other guys, wanting to get into her pants just because of how she looks. How could I have been so wrong?" "I think you better ask her," I answered with a frown, dropping the Jeep into a lower gear and letting out the clutch again. I was suddenly glad that the cabin was only a couple more turns away. We rolled into the grassy front yard of the cabin, the road just sort of ending where the ground leveled out. Kim must have heard us drive in, stepping out of the door as we rolled to a stop a dozen yards from the front porch. She was wearing high heel wedges. and a flowery, flowing dress that was semi-sheer, her body teasingly visible through the thin material. Somehow she'd managed to get her hair done up and makeup on so that she looked every bit the model as she did when she stepped onto the plane four days ago. "AMY!" Kim said cheerfully as she stepped off the porch toward us. "Oh. I see that Adam took my suggestion. Did you enjoy the drive up naked as much as I did?" "Your suggestion? I thought it was an order. A direct command," Amy said sharply, as she looked over at me climbing out of the Jeep. "Well, suggestion, order. They're pretty much the same, aren't they?" "Not so much," Amy said as she slipped out of the seat. "So how much has he taken advantage of you?" Amy wanted to know. "Taken advantage of me? Why would you think such a thing? He has been the consummate gentleman. He's shown me things that I had no idea existed, and he's included me in things that I never thought I'd do." Amy looked at me as Kim hooked an arm around her shoulders and drew her toward the cabin while I pulled her suitcase from the back of the Jeep. "He didn't force himself on you? Make you have sex with him?" Kim laughed. "Make me? When has any man ever MADE me have sex with them?" "But you told him about us. You told him about our relationship," Amy said in confusion as Kim led her into the one room cabin with me following behind her with her suitcase. "I did. I thought it was important for him to know, if we were going to be sleeping together. Adam is trustworthy. He earned my trust, and more importantly, my respect." "Sleeping together as in sleeping, or sleeping together as in fucking?" Amy asked. "Yes," Kim answered simply. "So he did force himself on you!" "Certainly Not!" Kim answered. "No. he didn't. In fact, the first time we did anything we were laying on the top of the mountain in the sun and I asked him, actually I pulled his hand between my legs, and he fingered me off to a very pleasant orgasm. Sex didn't come until later." "So you asked him for sex?" "I did. And to his credit, he even resisted. He was a perfect gentleman that first night. Even rolling over so that I had privacy while I cleaned up. I wasn't exactly used to washing myself in a little pan of hot water, but I made due. The next day we went on a hike and he showed me the top of the mountain. That's where we played with each other. And yes, it was My request. Even then, with me laying completely naked next to him, my hand rubbing his quite pleasant cock, he still didn't press me for sex. It wasn't until after the storm and getting warmed up by the fire that I made love to him. I took the initiative and yes my sweet Amy, I made love to him right here in front of the fireplace." "But you swore off men years ago." "As did you. Do you remember why?" "Yeah. Men are thick headed jerks that want nothing more than to bang you and leave you like a used piece of trash," Amy said with a frown. "We were wrong, Amy. Not all men are that way. Some are even pretty decent. But there are some that are even more than decent. The one thing that Adam did that really changed my mind about him was that he threw me in the lake!" "And that told you he was a nice guy? Hell it sounds like he was being mean." "On the contrary," Kim said as she started moving around the small room, setting plates on the table. "I was the one being mean. In fact, I was being a royal pain in his ass. And because of that, he threw me in the lake. He’s a man of his word.” "Doesn't sound like a very nice thing to do." Kim pulled a tray from the ice box and carried it to the small counter by the stove. "Actually, it was exactly what he said he'd do. And he did it, despite the fact that I could have fired his ass for it!" she said as she lit two burners on the stove. "What are you doing," Naked Amy asked, stepping over to the stove to see what Kim was doing. "Cooking dinner. Fried potatoes and fresh trout." "But you don't know how to cook!" "I know how to cook this. Adam taught me. Very patiently I might add," Kim said with a smile. "And you know what? The fish? I caught them and cleaned them myself!" she said proudly. "You? You went fishing?" "I did. Adam taught me how to cast the fly and coached me. I caught all three of these," she said with a smile. "I never knew something like that could be so much fun!" Amy looked at me in confusion. "So this isn't an emergency where you're refusing to come home until I come get you?" "Well. In honesty, I wouldn't call it an emergency. But yes. I was refusing to come home until you came," Kim answered as she carefully placed potato slices into the oil she'd poured in one of the big cast iron pans. "Now you and Adam go sit on the bed while I cook." "On the bed?" Amy asked. "Of course. It's much more comfortable than these hard wooden chairs," she said, as she turned toward me. "Go on Adam. Out of the kitchen!  I mean it. Go sit with her on the bed. No better yet, why don't you lay down with her. Much more comfortable. And before you ask, Amy, no, you can not put any clothes on." Kim gave clear orders. "Why?" Amy asked, her brow furled. "Because. Since you two met several months ago, he's had a thing for you. He tried to ask you out, but that didn't fly. So now that he's seen you naked, I’s you’ve been enjoying the wonderful view of his amazing cock; I think he should have a chance to also feel you naked. So go snuggle up while I cook this!" I walked to the bed and lay down on close to the wall, propping my back up on a rolled pillow to a reclined position so I could still see Kim working at the stove. Amy seemed irritated as she walked over and sat down on the bed, hard. She was clearly doing this under protest. Kim turned to look across the small room at us. "Damn Amy! I thought you liked Adam!" I couldn't see her face, but I could hear the frown in her voice. "I didn't say I didn't, but that doesn't mean I need to lay naked with him." "Have it your way," Kim said, turning to face the two of us. She reached down to the hem of her dress and pulled it up, skimming it up over her head and tossing it toward the suitcase sitting near the wall, leaving her in nothing but her high heels. I could hear the potatoes starting to sizzle in the pan of hot oil behind her as she stepped over to us. She leaned down and cupped both of Amy's tits as she leaned her face down to Amy's. I could almost hear a moan in the soft sigh Amy let slip as she and Kim's hot wet lips sucked and teased each other, Kim's hands continually working her friend’s soft round breasts. She let go of Amy's tits and slipped her hands around her sides to coax her to move on the bed, getting her to slide back and farther up toward me before gently pushing her back as she broke the long seductive kiss. As Amy's body pressed against mine, with Amy’s head on my right shoulder and her ass resting partly over my hip, Kim reached her hands to mine and pulled them around Amy's body, pressing them over the tits she'd so recently been playing with. "Why don't you let Adam keep you warmed up while I finish cooking?" she whispered before straightening and moving back to the stove. Amy ceased fighting against the idea, but remained passive, with her arms crossed over her belly. I gently began to massage Amy's soft breasts with both of my hands, my cock once again rock hard and pressing against her side. This time Amy didn't object as I squeezed and kneaded her soft tits, letting my thumbs gently slide back and forth across her hard nipples and puckered areola. She took a deep breath and let it out slowly, clearly enjoying my attention. I could hear the sizzle of fish as Kim laid the first of the three fish into the second pan of hot oil, though I doubted that Amy was paying any attention. She'd let her head roll in against my chest, her eyes closed as I gently teased her hard nipples. I let my left hand side down from her breast across her firm smooth stomach, gently teasing my fingers through her curly trimmed bush. I felt her momentarily stiffen in my arms, clearly unsure if she really wanted me to touch her where my hand was quite obviously headed. She didn't spread her legs or give me any indication at all that she wanted me to either continue or stop, so I let my hand reach to her left thigh and gently stroke my fingers up and down it, while my other hand continued to stroke and massage her right breast. She got goosebumps when I made first contact with her inner thigh, but within a few breaths, her body started hungering for more. She slowly relaxed against me as my fingers stroked up and down her thigh, slowly moving to the inside of her leg. I felt her weight shift slightly as she spread her legs, finally allowing my fingers to stroke all the way up her thigh to her pussy lips. I took that as an invitation, though a timid one. I let my fingers slow as they reached the juncture of her legs, letting just one finger stroke up and around the side of her pussy, more in the crease of her leg than on her full round pussy lip. I stroked down again, as far as my arm could reach before starting up again, this time her hand connecting with mine as I approached the end of my stroke. She drew my hand closer to her pussy, not letting go until my fingers were on her very wet lips. I could feel the hot wetness seep into my fingers as I pressed them gently against her round outer lips and the small amount of inner lip protruding. I pressed my middle finger gently and felt it slip between her lips, easily dipping into the wet depths between them. I slowly stroked my finger up, drawing it along her pubic bone, until I finally felt the hard press of her clitoris. "Oh fuck," she moaned softly as my finger drew along her hard nub, a slight shudder racing through her body. I dipped my finger back down between her lips, sliding it along and between her lips until I could feel the entrance to her soft depths. I curled my finger and let it press into her as she rolled her hips toward me, encouraging me to press into her. I drew my finger slowly out of her again, stroking up the length of her slit until I once again found her clit, stroking across and around it for long seconds. I started back down toward her entrance again, but her hand found mine and drew it back up again. "Don't stop. Please don't stop," she moaned, pressing my fingers against her clit as she drew her feet onto the bed and pushed her knees apart, spreading her pussy for my fingers. "If you want," I whispered, concentrating my strokes on and around her hard exposed clit. I worked the tip of my finger across her hard nub, rolling it and stroking it before circling my finger around and around it. I heard her moans grow in depth and length as she tried to push her pussy toward my hand, her arms and legs periodically shuddering. "Oh god," she whispered as the shudders grew in intensity. "Oh God!" she cried loudly, her whole body seeming to dissolve into shudders against me. I continued to stroke her clit until she reached for my hand and drew it away, whispering "enough" breathlessly. "If you two are done, dinner is ready," Kim said from where she stood next to the little kitchen table, wearing the gray t-shirt I'd loaned her days before to cook in. Cooking fried food naked isn't exactly what I would call fun. Maybe fun to look at, but definitely NOT fun when the food spatters at you. "Um. Yeah. Sure," Amy said, gently pushing herself up off of me without looking back at me. She got up and walked to the table without looking at me. I pushed myself off the bed and headed to the table, my hard cock swinging side to side with each step. Pulling out a chair I sat down across from where Kim stood, Amy on my left and an empty chair on my right for Kim. "Looks great!" I said with a smile, looking up at a beaming Kim. "You've got this dish down pat! Ready for something new tomorrow?" "I think maybe," Kim said as she sat in the chair across from Amy. She looked across the table at her friend expectantly. "You cooked this?" Amy asked, picking up her fork and using it to flake a section of trout off the bones. "You saw me. Well, mostly saw me. When you weren't in the throes of ecstasy that is." "I wasn't in the throes of ecstasy!" Amy snapped as she lifted the fork of fish to her mouth. "Damn! This is good!" "Thank you!" Kim beamed. "In the morning you can try my other specialty. Ham and eggs. Still trying to get the eggs right though. You know. I never knew how hard it was to make over easy really come out over easy and not broken scrambled messes!" "You cook breakfast too?" "Uh huh. Adam taught me. Said that everyone should know how to make enough things to survive on," Kim said as she scooped some fish into her own mouth. Yumm. Almost as good as sex." "Seriously? As good as sex?" Amy asked with a chuckle. "Well, average sex anyway. I mean not Adam sex. Hell, I don't think I've ever eaten a meal that tops how that makes me feel." "So you two have been having a regular sex party?" Amy asked, her face darkening in apparent anger. "I wouldn't call it a sex party. More like an intimate sharing of some really incredibly wonderful moments. He makes me climax so damn hard, no matter how we do it. I mean it's almost mind blowing how well he can manipulate my body to make my climax hold off and hold off until I'm ready to scream and then it washes over me like a tidal wave! God he's good at that!" To be continued. By m storyman x, for Literotica.

The Tahoe TAP podcast is back, offering listeners their inside look at the Things, Adventures, and People that keep Tahoe's mountain spirit alive. Hosts Mike Peron and Rob Galloway return behind the mics to share the latest stories and voices shaping life around the lake — and with ski season on the horizon, the timing couldn't be better for their latest guest. In this episode, the duo sits down with Dan Healy, a seasoned ski industry leader and the newly appointed Vice President and General Manager of Sierra-at-Tahoe, as the resort gears up for its November 28th opening. Healy's mountain story runs deep — spanning three decades in snow sports and resort operations. His career has taken him from directing children's programs at world-class destinations like Beaver Creek and Crested Butte, to managing ski school operations at Sugar Bowl, and later, serving as Vice President of Recreational Services at Solitude Mountain Resort in Utah. Notably, Healy's connection to Sierra-at-Tahoe goes way back — he previously served as the resort's Director of Snowsports, making his return to the mountain a true full-circle moment. Now leading Sierra into a new chapter, Healy brings with him a wealth of operational experience and a passion for nurturing both the guest and employee experience. On this episode, the conversation covers everything from resort recovery and community spirit to the innovations shaping the coming winter season.

  Show Notes Today, I'm talking with Nicole Blaser, an accomplished outdoor educator, adventurer, and co-founder of the Karuna Project. Nicole shares her inspiring journey guiding expeditions from Alaska's glaciers to Nepal's wild rivers, and reflects on the powerful role that compassion and connection play in outdoor leadership. WHAT HAPPENED: I didn't expect a pre-dawn ski up a cold Crested Butte mountain to spark a worldwide mission—but that's exactly what happened. There I was, skinning up the snow-covered slopes with my longtime friend and fellow guide, Seth, making conversation to keep our lungs from bursting in the thin air. At first, we were just training for a ski race, the Grand Traverse. But as we kept climbing—literally and figuratively—our chats turned into something more serious. We talked about the world. About disconnection. About how outdoor adventure had shaped us both. And somewhere between breathless climbs and sunrise turns, Karuna Project was born. We didn't have a 30-day course anymore or the luxury of long timelines. But we did have the skills, the scars (hello Giardia), and the belief that challenge, when shared with purpose, transforms people. PRINCIPLE: Adventure isn't just about adrenaline. It's about compassion. The outdoors has this sneaky way of stripping away the noise, leveling the playing field, and teaching you how to lead—not by shouting, but by showing up with empathy. And that kind of leadership? It's not just for guides on a trail. It's what today's communities, classrooms, and even boardrooms need more than ever. TRANSITION: Here's the thing, though—most people never get that chance. They're stuck thinking leadership means being the loudest. That change only happens through big platforms and politics. That real transformation only comes with a 30-day retreat or a plane ticket to Nepal. But that's not true. THAT'S WHY: That's why this episode exists—to show you how meaningful growth doesn't require a mountaintop or a massive budget. Just the right environment, the right challenge, and people who know how to guide you through both. Nicole's story isn't just inspiring—it's a blueprint for how we can all blend purpose with passion, right where we are. CALL TO ACTION: If you've ever felt stuck playing small, waiting for permission to lead or make a difference—stop. The world needs grounded, compassionate leaders now. And this episode? It'll remind you that your growth—and impact—can start with just one step into the wild.

Tucked deep in the Elk Mountains, Crested Butte is a colorful mountain town with serious backcountry charm — and in this episode, we're taking you just beyond the pavement to explore its best alpine loops.  

Eighty percent of the world's population can't see the Milky Way. Light pollution interferes. Author and adventurer Craig Childs, of Norwood, Colorado, writes about a trek from light to dark in his new book. "The Wild Dark" takes readers from the incandescence of Las Vegas to the spangled skies of rural Nevada. Childs spoke with Sr. Host Ryan Warner at the Mountain Words Festival in Crested Butte in May. 

WhoAlan Henceroth, President and Chief Operating Officer of Arapahoe Basin, Colorado – Al runs the best ski area-specific executive blog in America – check it out:Recorded onMay 19, 2025About Arapahoe BasinClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Alterra Mountain Company, which also owns:Pass access* Ikon Pass: unlimited* Ikon Base Pass: unlimited access from opening day to Friday, Dec. 19, then five total days with no blackouts from Dec. 20 until closing day 2026Base elevation* 10,520 feet at bottom of Steep Gullies* 10,780 feet at main baseSummit elevation* 13,204 feet at top of Lenawee Mountain on East Wall* 12,478 feet at top of Lazy J Tow (connector between Lenawee Express six-pack and Zuma quad)Vertical drop* 1,695 feet lift-served – top of Lazy J Tow to main base* 1,955 feet lift-served, with hike back up to lifts – top of Lazy J Tow to bottom of Steep Gullies* 2,424 feet hike-to – top of Lenawee Mountain to Main BaseSkiable Acres: 1,428Average annual snowfall:* Claimed: 350 inches* Bestsnow.net: 308 inchesTrail count: 147 – approximate terrain breakdown: 24% double-black, 49% black, 20% intermediate, 7% beginnerLift count: 9 (1 six-pack, 1 high-speed quad, 3 fixed-grip quads, 1 double, 2 carpets, 1 ropetow)Why I interviewed himWe can generally splice U.S. ski centers into two categories: ski resort and ski area. I'll often use these terms interchangeably to avoid repetition, but they describe two very different things. The main distinction: ski areas rise directly from parking lots edged by a handful of bunched utilitarian structures, while ski resorts push parking lots into the next zipcode to accommodate slopeside lodging and commerce.There are a lot more ski areas than ski resorts, and a handful of the latter present like the former, with accommodations slightly off-hill (Sun Valley) or anchored in a near-enough town (Bachelor). But mostly the distinction is clear, with the defining question being this: is this a mountain that people will travel around the world to ski, or one they won't travel more than an hour to ski?Arapahoe Basin occupies a strange middle. Nothing in the mountain's statistical profile suggests that it should be anything other than a Summit County locals hang. It is the 16th-largest ski area in Colorado by skiable acres, the 18th-tallest by lift-served vertical drop, and the eighth-snowiest by average annual snowfall. The mountain runs just six chairlifts and only two detachables. Beginner terrain is limited. A-Basin has no base area lodging, and in fact not much of a base area at all. Altitude, already an issue for the Colorado ski tourist, is amplified here, where the lifts spin from nearly 11,000 feet. A-Basin should, like Bridger Bowl in Montana (upstream from Big Sky) or Red River in New Mexico (across the mountain from Taos) or Sunlight in Colorado (parked between Aspen and I-70), be mostly unknown beside its heralded big-name neighbors (Keystone, Breck, Copper).And it sort of is, but also sort of isn't. Like tiny (826-acre) Aspen Mountain, A-Basin transcends its statistical profile. Skiers know it, seek it, travel for it, cross it off their lists like a snowy Eiffel Tower. Unlike Aspen, A-Basin has no posse of support mountains, no grided downtown spilling off the lifts, no Kleenex-level brand that stands in for skiing among non-skiers. And yet Vail tried buying the bump in 1997, and Alterra finally did in 2024. Meanwhile, nearby Loveland, bigger, taller, snowier, higher, easier to access with its trip-off-the-interstate parking lots, is still ignored by tourists and conglomerates alike.Weird. What explains A-Basin's pull? Onetime and future Storm guest Jackson Hogen offers, in his Snowbird Secrets book, an anthropomorphic explanation for that Utah powder dump's aura: As it turns out, everyone has a story for how they came to discover Snowbird, but no one knows the reason. Some have the vanity to think they picked the place, but the wisest know the place picked them.That is the secret that Snowbird has slipped into our subconscious; deep down, we know we were summoned here. We just have to be reminded of it to remember, an echo of the Platonic notion that all knowledge is remembrance. In the modern world we are so divorced from our natural selves that you would think we'd have lost the power to hear a mountain call us. And indeed we have, but such is the enormous reach of this place that it can still stir the last seed within us that connects us to the energy that surrounds us every day yet we do not see. The resonance of that tiny, vibrating seed is what brings us here, to this extraordinary place, to stand in the heart of the energy flow.Yeah I don't know, Man. We're drifting into horoscope territory here. But I also can't explain why we all like to do This Dumb Thing so much that we'll wrap our whole lives around it. So if there is some universe force, what Hogen calls “vibrations” from Hidden Peak's quartz, drawing skiers to Snowbird, could there also be some proton-kryptonite-laserbeam s**t sucking us all toward A-Basin? If there's a better explanation, I haven't found it.What we talked aboutThe Beach; keeping A-Basin's whole ski footprint open into May; Alterra buys the bump – “we really liked the way Alterra was doing things… and letting the resorts retain their identity”; the legacy of former owner Dream; how hardcore, no-frills ski area A-Basin fits into an Alterra portfolio that includes high-end resorts such as Deer Valley and Steamboat; “you'd be surprised how many people from out of state ski here too”; Ikon as Colorado sampler pack (or not); local reaction to Alterra's purchase – “I think it's fair that there was anxiety”; balancing the wild ski cycle of over-the-top peak days and soft periods; parking reservations; going unlimited on the full Ikon Pass and how parking reservations play in – “we spent a ridiculous amount of time talking about it”; the huge price difference between Epic and Ikon and how that factors into the access calculus; why A-Basin still sells a single-mountain season pass; whether reciprocal partnerships with Monarch and Silverton will remain in place; “I've been amazed at how few things I've been told to do” by Alterra; A-Basin's dirt-cheap early-season pass; why early season is “a more competitive time” than it used to be; why A-Basin left Mountain Collective; Justice Department anti-trust concerns around Alterra's A-Basin purchase – “it never was clear to me what the concerns were”; breaking down A-Basin's latest U.S. Forest Service masterplan – “everything in there, we hope to do”; a parking lot pulse gondola and why that makes sense over shuttles; why A-Basin plans a two-lift system of beginner machines; why should A-Basin care about beginner terrain?; is beginner development is related to Ikon Pass membership?; what it means that the MDP designs for 700 more skiers per day; assessing the Lenawee Express sixer three seasons in; why A-Basin sold the old Lenawee lift to independent Sunlight, Colorado; A-Basin's patrol unionizing; and 100 percent renewable energy.What I got wrong* I said that A-Basin was the only mountain that had been caught up in antitrust issues, but that's inaccurate: when S-K-I and LBO Enterprises merged into American Skiing Company in 1996, the U.S. Justice Department compelled the combined company to sell Cranmore and Waterville Valley, both in New Hampshire. Waterville Valley remains independent. Cranmore stayed independent for a while, and has since 2010 been owned by Fairbank Group, which also owns Jiminy Peak in Massachusetts and operates Bromley, Vermont.* I said that A-Basin's $259 early-season pass, good for unlimited access from opening day through Dec. 25, “was like one day at Vail,” which is sort of true and sort of not. Vail Mountain's day-of lift ticket will hit $230 from Nov. 14 to Dec. 11, then increase to $307 or $335 every day through Christmas. All Resorts Epic Day passes, which would get skiers on the hill for any of those dates, currently sell for between $106 and $128 per day. Unlimited access to Vail Mountain for that full early-season period would require a full Epic Pass, currently priced at $1,121.* This doesn't contradict anything we discussed, but it's worth noting some parking reservations changes that A-Basin implemented following our conversation. Reservations will now be required on weekends only, and from Jan. 3 to May 3, a reduction from 48 dates last winter to 36 for this season. The mountain will also allow skiers to hold four reservations at once, doubling last year's limit of two.Why now was a good time for this interviewOne of the most striking attributes of modern lift-served skiing is how radically different each ski area is. Panic over corporate hegemony power-stamping each child mountain into snowy McDonald's clones rarely survives past the parking lot. Underscoring the point is neighboring ski areas, all over America, that despite the mutually intelligible languages of trail ratings and patrol uniforms and lift and snowgun furniture, and despite sharing weather patterns and geologic origins and local skier pools, feel whole-cut from different eras, cultures, and imaginations. The gates between Alta and Snowbird present like connector doors between adjoining hotel rooms but actualize as cross-dimensional Mario warpzones. The 2.4-mile gondola strung between the Alpine Meadows and Olympic sides of Palisades Tahoe may as well connect a baseball stadium with an opera house. Crossing the half mile or so between the summits of Sterling at Smugglers' Notch and Spruce Peak at Stowe is a journey of 15 minutes and five decades. And Arapahoe Basin, elder brother of next-door Keystone, resembles its larger neighbor like a bat resembles a giraffe: both mammals, but of entirely different sorts. Same with Sugarbush and Mad River Glen, Vermont; Sugar Bowl, Donner Ski Ranch, and Boreal, California; Park City and Deer Valley, Utah; Killington and Pico, Vermont; Highlands and Nub's Nob, Michigan; Canaan Valley and Timberline and Nordic-hybrid White Grass, West Virginia; Aspen's four Colorado ski areas; the three ski areas sprawling across Mt. Hood's south flank; and Alpental and its clump of Snoqualmie sisters across the Washington interstate. Proximity does not equal sameness.One of The Storm's preoccupations is with why this is so. For all their call-to-nature appeal, ski areas are profoundly human creations, more city park than wildlife preserve. They are sculpted, managed, manicured. Even the wildest-feeling among them – Mount Bohemia, Silverton, Mad River Glen – are obsessively tended to, ragged by design.A-Basin pulls an even neater trick: a brand curated for rugged appeal, scaffolded by brand-new high-speed lifts and a self-described “luxurious European-style bistro.” That the Alterra Mountain Company-owned, megapass pioneer floating in the busiest ski county in the busiest ski state in America managed to retain its rowdy rap even as the onetime fleet of bar-free double chairs toppled into the recycling bin is a triumph of branding.But also a triumph of heart. A-Basin as Colorado's Alta or Taos or Palisades is a title easily ceded to Telluride or Aspen Highlands, similarly tilted high-alpiners. But here it is, right beside buffed-out Keystone, a misunderstood mountain with its own wild side but a fair-enough rap as an approachable landing zone for first-time Rocky Mountain explorers westbound out of New York or Ohio. Why are A-Basin and Keystone so different? The blunt drama of A-Basin's hike-in terrain helps, but it's more enforcer than explainer. The real difference, I believe, is grounded in the conductor orchestrating this mad dance.Since Henceroth sat down in the COO chair 20 years ago, Keystone has had nine president-general manager equivalents. A-Basin was already 61 years old in 2005, giving it a nice branding headstart on younger Keystone, born in 1970. But both had spent nearly two decades, from 1978 to 1997, co-owned by a dogfood conglomerate that often marketed them as one resort, and the pair stayed glued together on a multimountain pass for a couple of decades afterward.Henceroth, with support and guidance from the real-estate giant that owned A-Basin in the Ralston-Purina-to-Alterra interim, had a series of choices to make. A-Basin had only recently installed snowmaking. There was no lift access to Zuma Bowl, no Beavers. The lift system consisted of three double chairs and two triples. Did this aesthetic minimalism and pseudo-independence define A-Basin? Or did the mountain, shaped by the generations of leaders before Henceroth, hold some intangible energy and pull, that thing we recognize as atmosphere, culture, vibe? Would The Legend lose its duct-taped edge if it:* Expanded 400 mostly low-angle acres into Zuma Bowl (2007)* Joined Vail Resorts' Epic Pass (2009)* Installed the mountain's first high-speed lift (Black Mountain Express in 2010)* Expand 339 additional acres into the Beavers (2018), and service that terrain with an atypical-for-Colorado 1,501-vertical-foot fixed-grip lift* Exit the Epic Pass following the 2018-19 ski season* Immediately join Mountain Collective and Ikon as a multimountain replacement (2019)* Ditch a 21-year-old triple chair for the mountain's first high-speed six-pack (2022)* Sell to Alterra Mountain Company (2024)* Require paid parking reservations on high-volume days (2024)* Go unlimited on the Ikon Pass and exit Mountain Collective (2025)* Release an updated USFS masterplan that focuses largely on the novice ski experience (2025)That's a lot of change. A skier booted through time from Y2K to October 2025 would examine that list and conclude that Rad Basin had been tamed. But ski a dozen laps and they'd say well not really. Those multimillion upgrades were leashed by something priceless, something human, something that kept them from defining what the mountain is. There's some indecipherable alchemy here, a thing maybe not quite as durable as the mountain itself, but rooted deeper than the lift towers strung along it. It takes a skilled chemist to cook this recipe, and while they'll never reveal every secret, you can visit the restaurant as many times as you'd like.Why you should ski Arapahoe BasinWe could do a million but here are nine:1) $: Two months of early-season skiing costs roughly the same as A-Basin's neighbors charge for a single day. A-Basin's $259 fall pass is unlimited from opening day through Dec. 25, cheaper than a Dec. 20 day-of lift ticket at Breck ($281), Vail ($335), Beaver Creek ($335), or Copper ($274), and not much more than Keystone ($243). 2) Pali: When A-Basin tore down the 1,329-vertical-foot, 3,520-foot-long Pallavicini double chair, a 1978 Yan, in 2020, they replaced it with a 1,325-vertical-foot, 3,512-foot-long Leitner-Poma double chair. It's one of just a handful of new doubles installed in America over the past decade, underscoring a rare-in-modern-skiing commitment to atmosphere, experience, and snow preservation over uphill capacity. 3) The newest lift fleet in the West: The oldest of A-Basin's six chairlifts, Zuma, arrived brand-new in 2007.4) Wall-to-wall: when I flew into Colorado for a May 2025 wind-down, five ski areas remained open. Despite solid snowpack, Copper, Breck, and Winter Park all spun a handful of lifts on a constrained footprint. But A-Basin and Loveland still ran every lift, even over the Monday-to-Thursday timeframe of my visit.5) The East Wall: It's like this whole extra ski area. Not my deal as even skiing downhill at 12,500 feet hurts, but some of you like this s**t:6) May pow: I mean yeah I did kinda just get lucky but damn these were some of the best turns I found all year (skiing with A-Basin Communications Manager Shayna Silverman):7) The Beach: the best ski area tailgate in North America (sorry, no pet dragons allowed - don't shoot the messenger):8) The Beavers: Just glades and glades and glades (a little crunchy on this run, but better higher up and the following day):9) It's a ski area first: In a county of ski resorts, A-Basin is a parking-lots-at-the-bottom-and-not-much-else ski area. It's spare, sparse, high, steep, and largely exposed. Skiers are better at self-selecting than we suppose, meaning the ability level of the average A-Basin skier is more Cottonwoods than Connecticut. That impacts your day in everything from how the liftlines flow to how the bumps form to how many zigzaggers you have to dodge on the down.Podcast NotesOn the dates of my visit We reference my last A-Basin visit quite a bit – for context, I skied there May 6 and 7, 2025. Both nice late-season pow days.On A-Basin's long seasonsIt's surprisingly difficult to find accurate open and close date information for most ski areas, especially before 2010 or so, but here's what I could cobble together for A-Basin - please let me know if you have a more extensive list, or if any of this is wrong:On A-Basin's ownership timelineArapahoe Basin probably gets too much credit for being some rugged indie. Ralston-Purina, then-owners of Keystone, purchased A-Basin in 1978, then added Breckenridge to the group in 1993 before selling the whole picnic basket to Vail in 1997. The U.S. Justice Department wouldn't let the Eagle County operator have all three, so Vail flipped Arapahoe to a Canadian real estate empire, then called Dundee, some months later. That company, which at some point re-named itself Dream, pumped a zillion dollars into the mountain before handing it off to Alterra last year.On A-Basin leaving Epic PassA-Basin self-ejected from Epic Pass in 2019, just after Vail maxed out Colorado by purchasing Crested Butte and before they fully invaded the East with the Peak Resorts purchase. Arapahoe Basin promptly joined Mountain Collective and Ikon, swapping unlimited-access on four varieties of Epic Pass for limited-days products. Henceroth and I talked this one out during our 2022 pod, and it's a fascinating case study in building a better business by decreasing volume.On the price difference between Ikon and Epic with A-Basin accessConcerns about A-Basin hurdling back toward the overcrowded Epic days by switching to Ikon's unlimited tier tend to overlook this crucial distinction: Vail sold a 2018-19 version of the Epic Pass that included unlimited access to Keystone and A-Basin for an early-bird rate of $349. The full 2025-26 Ikon Pass debuted at nearly four times that, retailing for $1,329, and just ramped up to $1,519.On Alterra mountains with their own season passesWhile all Alterra-owned ski areas (with the exception of Deer Valley), are unlimited on the full Ikon Pass and nine are unlimited with no blackouts on Ikon Base, seven of those sell their own unlimited season pass that costs less than Base. The sole unlimited season pass for Crystal, Mammoth, Palisades Tahoe, Steamboat, Stratton, and Sugarbush is a full Ikon Pass, and the least-expensive unlimited season pass for Solitude is the Ikon Base. Deer Valley leads the nation with its $4,100 unlimited season pass. See the Alterra chart at the top of this article for current season pass prices to all of the company's mountains.On A-Basin and Schweitzer pass partnershipsAlterra has been pretty good about permitting its owned ski areas to retain historic reciprocal partners on their single-mountain season passes. For A-Basin, this means three no-blackout days at Monarch and two unguided days at Silverton. Up at Schweitzer, passholders get three midweek days each at Whitewater, Mt. Hood Meadows, Castle Mountain, Loveland, and Whitefish. None of these ski areas are on Ikon Pass, and the benefit is only stapled to A-Basin- or Schweitzer-specific season passes.On the Mountain Collective eventI talk about Mountain Collective as skiing's most exclusive country club. Nothing better demonstrates that characterization than this podcast I recorded at the event last fall, when in around 90 minutes I had conversations with the top leaders of Boyne Resorts, Snowbird, Aspen, Jackson Hole, Sun Valley, Snowbasin, Grand Targhee, and many more.On Mountain Collective and Ikon overlapThe Mountain Collective-Ikon overlap is kinda nutso:On Pennsylvania skiingIn regards to the U.S. Justice Department grilling Alterra on its A-Basin acquisition, it's still pretty stupid that the agency allowed Vail Resorts to purchase eight of the 19 public chairlift-served ski areas in Pennsylvania without a whisper of protest. These eight ski areas almost certainly account for more than half of all skier visits in a state that typically ranks sixth nationally for attendance. Last winter, the state's 2.6 million skier visits accounted for more days than vaunted ski states New Hampshire (2.4 million), Washington (2.3), Montana (2.2), Idaho (2.1). or Oregon (2.0). Only New York (3.4), Vermont (4.2), Utah (6.5), California (6.6), and Colorado (13.9) racked up more.On A-Basin's USFS masterplanNothing on the scale of Zuma or Beavers inbound, but the proposed changes would tap novice terrain that has always existed but never offered a good access point for beginners:On pulse gondolasA-Basin's proposed pulse gondola, should it be built, would be just the sixth such lift in America, joining machines at Taos, Northstar, Steamboat, Park City, and Snowmass. Loon plans to build a pulse gondola in 2026.On mid-mountain beginner centersBig bad ski resorts have attempted to amp up family appeal in recent years with gondola-serviced mid-mountain beginner centers, which open gentle, previously hard-to-access terrain to beginners. This was the purpose of mid-stations off Jackson Hole's Sweetwater Gondola and Big Sky's new-for-this-year Explorer Gondola. A-Basin's gondy (not the parking lot pulse gondola, but the one terminating at Sawmill Flats in the masterplan image above), would provide up and down lift access allowing greenies to lap the new detach quad above it.The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Jamie Starr has had more great jobs in the ski industry than most guests I've had on the show. Really, he was born to be a part of this industry. Growing up in Crested Butte taught Jamie a love of the mountains and understanding of what it takes to make non-traditional athletes tick, which all helped him in his later endeavors.  But what drove Jamie was a passion to not only be the best, but to do good and really make a difference in the world.  On the podcast we talk about law school, his incredible career with brands like The North Face, Spyder, DPS, Pomoca, how to handle athlete loss, and more.  It's a business episode with one of the few lawyers I've had on the podcast. Jamie Starr Show Notes: 4:00: The reality of losing your job, growing up in Crested Butte, X Games, Extreme and more 22:00: Thermic: The brand that invented the heated sock Stanley:  The brand that invented the category! Only the best for Powell Movement listeners. 30%off with the code SNOW30 Check out Stanley1913.com  Best Day Brewing:  All of the flavor of your favorite IPA or Kolsch, without the alcohol, the calories or sugar. 25:00:  The end of racing, the LSAT debacle, year in SD, blogging, being a lawyer and other jobs, Spyder 41:00: Elan Skis:  Over 75 years of innovation that makes you better. Outdoor Research: Click here for 25% off Outdoor Research products (not valid on sale items or pro products) 42:00: Working with Euros, Denver to SLC for DPS, The North Face Saga, and The National Ability Center 55:00: Inappropriate Questions with Brendan Starr

Fishing buddies part two. Rob recounts stories about those he has fished alongside throughout the years. From Lenny in Florida to Dan at Mossy Creek, this episode is lengthy, yet it doesn't cover all of his fishing partners and their remarkable narratives. Regrettably, there simply isn't enough time to share every tale. Since childhood, Rob has taken friends on exciting adventures across Reston and Frederiksberg, Virginia, to the Florida Keys, and even to Crested Butte, Colorado. His friends have encountered snakes, poison ivy, jellyfish, caterpillars, feisty sea lions, and pinching crabs. They have braved temperatures from freezing to scorching hot. Greasy burgers and Slurpees have been part of their journey. Rob wishes to convey his appreciation to all his friends who have accompanied him in his endeavor to challenge boundaries in pursuit of fish. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have you ever experienced Scripture leaping off the page and speaking directly to your life? While camping in Crested Butte with my family, God highlighted Exodus 8:22-23 in a way that changed everything for me. As morning sunlight danced across the pond near our campsite, these ancient words about God making a "distinction" between His people and others pierced straight to my heart.The Hebrew word for "distinction" actually means "redemption" – revealing that God wasn't just separating His people from plagues but marking them for something profound. This revelation came during a week when our world was commemorating 9/11 and reeling from the attempted assassination of Charlie Kirk. Amid such chaos and darkness, God whispered assurance: "I've got you in Goshen."The story of God's people in Goshen isn't merely ancient history – it's a living parable for believers today. In our current landscape of fear, division, and uncertainty, God continues to make a distinction, setting apart those who belong to Him. This brings tremendous hope! Even when darkness seems overwhelming, God's people were not overcome then, and they will not be overcome now.Over the next seven episodes, we'll journey through this powerful theme, exploring God's provision, protection, purpose, prayer, preparation, and power as demonstrated in Goshen and relevant to our lives today. Whether you're a long-time follower of Christ or someone curious about what it means to have a relationship with God, these conversations are for you.We don't have to navigate these challenging times alone. God is working in and through us, creating these "Days of Distinction." Join us as we discover together how God has you in your own Goshen. Subscribe now and be encouraged as we seek Him and speak His truth into the lives of those entrusted to us.______________________The Family Disciple Me ministry exists to catalyze devotion driven discipleship in our homes and around the world. We believe that discipleship starts with a conversation, and FDM provides free, easily-accessible, biblical resources to encourage these meaningful conversations along life's way. Sign up through our website to be "the first to know" about upcoming releases and resources (including the FDM App - coming soon!!!) You can also follow Family Disciple Me on social media. Family Disciple Me is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit ministry, and all donations are tax deductible. More information, blogs, statement of faith and contact info can be found at familydiscipleme.org

Today, Sun outdoors reporter Jason Blevins delves into the recent $12 million jury award to a woman paralyzed after falling from a chairlift at Crested Butte and what it means for the ski industry and other outdoor companies that rely on liability waivers. Learn more: https://coloradosun.com/2025/09/04/jury-verdict-against-vail-resorts/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On today's newscast: Snowmass Tourism has spent the last year overhauling its tourism marketing plan; a jury in Colorado has awarded a $21-million verdict to a woman who was paralyzed after falling from a ski lift at Crested Butte; and Colorado Congressman Joe Neguse introduced bills this week to reverse cuts to federal climate and disaster agencies. Tune in for these stories and more.

EP:153 Hey Thrive Community! In this episode of the Thrive Like a Parent Podcast, I'm taking you behind the scenes of my unforgettable road trip with Carter. From spontaneous adventures through Santa Fe, Taos, Estes Park, and Crested Butte, to hiking breathtaking trails and even buying my dream vintage 1979 Ford Bronco (hello, Sally Joy Ride!), this journey was all about stepping out of my comfort zone, reconnecting with nature, and finding new ways to regulate and recharge. I open up about the challenges and joys of traveling without a set itinerary, the magic of seeing wildlife in the Rockies, and the importance of making space for adventure and healing—especially as a solo parent, business owner, and someone on a lifelong journey of growth. Plus, I share how these experiences brought Carter and me closer, and why it's so vital to pause, reflect, and truly enjoy the ride. If you want the full itinerary of our road trip—where we ate, stayed, and explored—drop a comment or sign up for my newsletter! Let's keep thriving together. #ThriveLikeAParent #RoadTripAdventures #HealingJourney #FamilyTime #NatureLover #VintageBronco #SelfCare #ParentingPodcast #BrookeWeinstein Ready for your own adventure? Hit play and let's dive in! Links & Resources:

Episode 162 – The Tour Finale and the Pre-Pre-Leadville 100 Gravel Race Episode What up party people. Welcome back for another fun episode of the Bonk Bros Podcast where we're talking about our thoughts on the Tour finale, getting into all things drop bars at the Leadville 100 Mountain Bike (I mean gravel) race, as well as our reaction to Dizzle's latest round of VO2max testing, and plenty more.   As always, this episode is brought to you by some of our AMAZING partners who continue to stand by our side and bring you access to some of our favorite products that we use on the daily.   For all of your bicycle tire and accessory shopping needs head over to Bike Tires Direct (or BTD as we call them) and use code “bonkbros” when checking out for a sweet little discount. BTD was kind enough to support the Crested Butte training camp that I co-hosted a few weeks ago and sent us a boat load of tires for the athletes to demo, along with some Silca sealant, and they also provided us with a couple of the newest head units from Garmin, the Edge MTB. We got to put these rugged little buggers to the test over the course of the week and one of the lucky campers even got to go home with one after we raffled it off at the end of camp. If you're in the market for a new bike computer and you're anything like me and constantly breaking these darn things then be sure to check out the Garmin Edge MTB head unit over at Bike Tires Direct.   Next up if you're just sick of having to always pretend like you're buying razors for your wife at the store every time you run out of leg shavers, then check out the best razors for men who shave their legs from our friends over at BOLT Skin + Shave. And for an extra 15% off that silky smooth shave experience type in code BROS15 at checkout. That's Bolk Skin + Shave (code: BROS15)   Oh yeah we've also got the lovely crew over at Silca, our longest running show sponsor who's always developing the latest in marginal gains products plus a whole bunch more. Silca too was a sponsor of the Crested Butte camp, setting us up with Crockpotanator 4000s, tons of Secret Blend wax and all the various chip additives, they made sure we were washing bikes in style every night with the Bike Spa treatment, plus they made sure each camper went home with some Super Secret wax drip lube. Check out any of these products and more over at Silca.cc and use the code “Bonkbrosjuly2025” for discount at checkout.       Just a few more here for y'all.   If you're still in the process of dialing in your training and racing fueling strategy (which you should always be doing) then you need to experiment with the magical powers of ketone esthers by the folks over at KetoneAid. Once you do, you'll quickly find that unlike the absolute monstrosity of sugary concoctions high carb drink mixes are, KetoneAid brings you a product that can be used for both on the bike and off the bike fueling to support overall lifestyle performance. Use ketones for things like enhancing cognitive function, improving recoverability and sleep, and even for that afternoon pick-me-up before you leave the office to head home and hammer out a training ride. Click the link in the show notes for free shipping.   Speaking of hammering out rides, if you're serious about your fitness but just don't have the time or resources available to work with a coach, don't overlook the power of AI to help you curate an effective and easy to follow training plan for your situation. JOIN cycling wants to make sure that every rider has access to a training program just like that and even wants to offer you a FREE month of training when you can head to join.cc/campaigns/bonkbros or click the link in the show notes.   And last one for today is Bicycle Accident Law. Spearheaded by Matthew Scarborough, who is with you on every ride, for better or worse, Bicycle Accident Law is your go-to resource any time you're involved with a vehicle incident while out riding and need advice navigating the legal process that follows. Just mention the Bonk Bros sent you if you're in need of their services for a bonus offer, including a month of FREE coaching with Ignition Coach Co when you return to riding.   Alright I hear ya, that's enough business talk for today, if you have any questions or feedback for the show you can drop us a note at bonkbrospodcast@gmail.com or hit up the Bonk Bros instagram page (@bonkbros @dylanjawnson @adamsaban6 @tylerclouti @raddaddizzle @scottmcgilljr).   Let's get this party started!   FOR UPDATED DISCOUNT CODES CHECK THE LATEST EPISODE: Silca (10% discount code: “Bonkbrosjuly2025”): https://silca.cc/?utm_source=Bonk+Bros&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=stripchip&utm_id=Bonk+Bros+Podcast   Bike Tires Direct (10% discount code: bonkbros): https://www.biketiresdirect.com/?utm_source=bonkbros&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=bonkbros2025   Bolt Skin + Shave (BROS15): https://www.boltshave.com   JOIN Cycling: https://join.cc/campaigns/bonkbros   Scarborough Bicycle Accident Law: https://www.bicycleaccidentlaw.com   KetoneAid: https://ketoneaid.com/?utm_source=BonkBros   Dynamic Cyclist (10% discount code: BONKBROS): https://new.dynamiccyclist.com/a/43703/xkYViFV8     Patreon: http://patreon.com/patreon_bonkbros    For more Dylan Johnson content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIf1xvRN8pzyd_VfLgj_dow   Listener Question Form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1T37wGRLk6iYTCF6X_DQ9yfcaYtfAQceKpBJYR5W7DVA/edit?ts=642eb6d6   MERCH: T-SHIRTS ARE HERE! Get your Bonk Bros swag below. https://bb5a73-20.myshopify.com/    IGNITION: Hire a coach. Get faster. It's that simple. https://www.ignitioncoachco.com/   MATCHBOX PODCAST: Check out our more serious training focused podcast.  https://www.ignitioncoachco.com/podcast      The Following Was Generated Using AI And Should Not Be Held To The Higher Standards Of Sentient Beings - Riverside.   Summary In this lively conversation, the hosts delve into various topics surrounding cycling, including the often-debated VO2 max, the recent Tour de France highlights, and the performance of Tadej Pogačar. They also discuss Drew's recent VO2 max test results, the gravel racing scene, and the implications of testosterone and GLP-1s on athletic performance. The discussion is filled with humor and camaraderie, making for an engaging listen. In this episode, the hosts discuss the relationship between cycling and nutrition, particularly how cyclists manage their diets in relation to their training. They delve into the Leadville race, debating its classification as a gravel race and the economics of race entry fees. The conversation shifts to bike setups and strategies for racing, followed by listener questions that cover gear choices and race preparation tips.   Chapters 00:00 The VO2 Max Debate 02:36 Tour Highlights and Tade's Dominance 05:27 Tade's Future and Olympic Aspirations 08:14 The Competitive Landscape of Cycling 10:55 Team Dynamics and Gravel Racing 15:05 The Value of Numbers in Performance 18:11 Understanding VO2 Max and Its Impact 23:43 Psychological Effects of Performance Metrics 27:24 The Reality of Professional Cycling Salaries 30:14 Testosterone and Health Insights 32:08 Exploring TRT and GLP-1s 36:05 The Weight Loss Drug Debate 38:12 Leadville Race Dynamics 41:34 Entry Fees and Race Economics 43:50 The Value of Collector's Items 44:48 Race Highlights and Performance 45:29 Upcoming Races and Their Significance 46:41 Testing and Performance Metrics 50:17 Lactate Testing and Thresholds 56:15 Comparing Race Results and Experiences 56:56 Listener Questions and Gear Discussions 01:02:28 Cyclocross Setup and Tire Choices 01:07:54 Advice for New Cyclocross Racers 01:10:31 Wrap-Up and Future Episodes  

Episode 150 - Pacing Strategies, Emerging Emphasis on Respiratory Rate, and 6h Racing on 6h Training   Hello everyone. Welcome to the latest episode of The Matchbox Podcast powered by Ignition Coach Co. I'm your host, Adam Saban, and on this week's episode we're talking pacing strategies for longer races, the emergence of respiratory rate in endurance sports science, and how to train for 100mi gravel events with less than 6 hours per week to train.   As always, if you like what you hear please share this with your friends and leave us a five star review and if you have any questions for the show drop us an email at matchboxpod@gmail.com with the topic of discussion in the email title or head over to ignitioncoachco.com and fill out The Matchbox Podcast listener question form. You can also sign up for the Matchbox Patreon and get priority placement for your submitted questions.   Alight let's get into it!   For more social media content, follow along @ignitioncoachco @adamsaban6 @dizzle_dillman @dylanjawnson @kait.maddox     https://patreon.com/MatchboxPodcast?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink   https://www.youtube.com/c/DylanJohnsonCycling https://www.ignitioncoachco.com  https://www.youtube.com/@DrewDillmanChannel   Intro/ Outro music by AlexGrohl - song "King Around Here" - https://pixabay.com/music/id-15045/    The following was generated using Riverside.fm AI technologies   Summary In this episode, the hosts recap their recent training camp in Crested Butte, discussing the camaraderie and coaching experiences. They delve into pacing strategies for endurance races, emphasizing the importance of understanding personal fitness levels and race dynamics. The conversation shifts to the emerging significance of respiratory rates as a performance metric, highlighting its reliability compared to heart rate. Finally, they provide insights on training for gravel races, particularly for those with limited time, stressing the need for familiarity with race distances to ensure successful outcomes.   Chapters 00:00 Crested Butte Training Camp Recap 02:20 Pacing Strategies for Endurance Races 14:52 Understanding Respiratory Rates in Performance 22:58 Training Structure for Gravel Racing  

On this episode of Success is Subjective, Joanna brings you another story from our special former participant series where she invites former participants to recount their personal journey. Today's former participant is Holly Wilson. Raised in the tight-knit mountain town of Crested Butte, Colorado, the constant visibility of small-town life motivated Holly to stay on top of her game. A self-proclaimed “perfectionist” with a track record of exceptional performance and ambition, it came as no surprise when she was awarded a full-ride scholarship to the University of Colorado Boulder. As she transitioned into college life—where the external pressure to maintain perfection diminished—Holly discovered new dimensions of her identity beginning to surface. A different version of herself began to take shape: one that craved freedom and fun, often fueled by alcohol. This shift ultimately landed the once-driven student on academic probation during her very first semester. After switching majors, relocating to Los Angeles in pursuit of an acting career, and surviving a devastating and unforeseeable accident, Holly found herself with no more guardrails to stop her descent into full-blown addiction.Embracing recovery wholeheartedly, Holly tackled the deep emotional work required for healing with resilience and clarity. On the other side of addiction, she uncovered a calling: to help establish a treatment center designed specifically for women's unique needs. As the founder and Chief Empowerment Officer of Women's Recovery in Denver, Holly brings a bold, forward-thinking voice to the conversation around mental health and substance use recovery, championing a vision for women to lead whole, healthy, and authentically integrated lives.NOTE: The podcasts in this series can include sensitive subjects such as suicide, self-harm, substance abuse, hospitalizations, psychotic episodes, and other traumatic experiences which include parts of the treatment journey. No topic is off limits and not all stories are positive but they are real, raw, and transparent.**Listener discretion is advised** Holly's Resources:Women's RecoveryConnect with Joanna Lilley  Therapeutic Consulting AssociationLilley Consulting WebsiteLilley Consulting on Facebook Lilley Consulting on YouTubeEmail joanna@lilleyconsulting.com#TherapeuticConsulting #LilleyConsulting #Successful  #TherapeuticPrograms #Therapy #MentalHealthMatters #Podcast #PodcastCommunity #TheJourney #SuccessIsSubjectivePodcast #TheUnpavedRoad #PFCAudioVideo #AddictionRecovery #WomensRecovery #HealthyBoundaries #Recovery #TraumaRecovery #TherapyJourney 

A fun chat with Lynn Painter all about her new book Maid for Each Other, the genius of Pretty Woman, how she makes her wavering attention work for her as a writer, and her struggles to create conflict. Plus – Laura stays at a most confusing hotel in Crested Butte. ITUNES – SPOTIFY

Episode 160 - Tour Talk and DJ's Riding the (Over)train to Leadville What up party people. Thanks for all the positive feedback y'all gave us for the episode with Alex Howes last week. Sounds like y'all really enjoyed having him mixed into the conversations, which probably says more about Howesy himself than anything we brought to the table but nonetheless, we enjoyed it too. Hopefully we can have Alex back in the hot seat again soon for y'all to pick up where we left off. If you have any questions or feedback for the show you can drop us a note at bonkbrospodcast@gmail.com or hit up the Bonk Bros instagram page (@bonkbros @dylanjawnson @adamsaban6 @tylerclouti @raddaddizzle @scottmcgilljr).  If you want to support the podcast while also gifting yourself a little something in the process, you can pick up some amazing products from any (or all) of our loyal partners and be sure that you're getting the best of the best because we only work with the best of the best.  Speaking of the best of the best, Bolt Skin + Shave brings you the absolute best leg shaving experience possible. Every time you hop in the shower to shave those yeti legs, Bolt brings the silky smooth gift of the most advanced leg shaving experience money can buy. Bolt Skin + Shave is more than just a razor company (as eluded to in the name of the company), they're also a skin care company with all kinds of skin accessories to improve the quality of your post-shave skin. Head over to boltshave.com today and use the code “BROS15” at checkout. Next up is our friends over at Bike Tires Direct where you can get basically anything you could possibly want or need to support your cycling addiction. I just just got back from ripping my way through the high country of Crested Butte, Colorado while putting some new Vittoria Barzos to the test and so far I've been pretty impressed. They handled the chunk like an absolute champ (even though I did hit the deck at one point, but that wasn't the tires fault), and I even won our local short track race on them last night to prove they can also rip some steamy fast trail racing. Check out all the tires from Vittoria and countless other brands over at biketiresdirect.com and use the code “bonkbros” at checkout.  For all bike maintenance and marginal gains needs head over to Silca.cc and use the code “Bonkbrosjuly2025” at checkout for a sweet little discount. With the popularity of chain waxing gaining mucho traction this year at the Tour, don't miss out on those extra watt savings and not only that, Silca chain wax has been proven to save you extra lifespan on your precious drivetrain components which is a pretty big deal given how expensive chains and cassettes have gotten these days. Check out all the chain waxing options and so much more from our homies at Silca, and again that's code “Bonkbrosjuly2025” for an extra discount. This week DJ gave us an update on the latest status of his leg recovery, including his first time out on dirt since the accident. If you should find yourself in a similar situation where you come into contact with a moving vehicle while out riding, make sure you always have your go-to resource handy to help you navigate the legality of the situation. Scarborough Bicycle Accident Law wants to be with you every step of the way throughout the process, and to show their continued support beyond the court room, they're now offering TWO FREE months of coaching with Ignition Coach Co for any of our listeners who find themselves in that unfortunate situation. Just mention the Bonk Bros sent you and they will get you back on the bike ASAP. And last but not least this week is definitely a brand you'll be seeing plenty of over the next few weeks at the Tour. That's right, our trustworthy homies over at KetoneAid are doing ketone supplementation right so if you want to get your hands (or mouth) on that same liquid gold as all the fast bois at the Tour then click the link in the show notes to get you some today.  Alright that's all the business for today, let's get this party started!   FOR UPDATED DISCOUNT CODES CHECK THE LATEST EPISODE: Silca (10% discount code: “Bonkbrosjuly2025”): https://silca.cc/?utm_source=Bonk+Bros&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=stripchip&utm_id=Bonk+Bros+Podcast   Bike Tires Direct (10% discount code: bonkbros): https://www.biketiresdirect.com/?utm_source=bonkbros&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=bonkbros2025   Bolt Skin + Shave (BROS15): https://www.boltshave.com   JOIN Cycling: https://join.cc/campaigns/bonkbros   Scarborough Bicycle Accident Law: https://www.bicycleaccidentlaw.com   KetoneAid: https://ketoneaid.com/?utm_source=BonkBros   Dynamic Cyclist (10% discount code: BONKBROS): https://new.dynamiccyclist.com/a/43703/xkYViFV8     Patreon: http://patreon.com/patreon_bonkbros     For more Dylan Johnson content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIf1xvRN8pzyd_VfLgj_dow   Listener Question Form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1T37wGRLk6iYTCF6X_DQ9yfcaYtfAQceKpBJYR5W7DVA/edit?ts=642eb6d6   MERCH: T-SHIRTS ARE HERE! Get your Bonk Bros swag below. https://bb5a73-20.myshopify.com/    IGNITION: Hire a coach. Get faster. It's that simple. https://www.ignitioncoachco.com/   MATCHBOX PODCAST: Check out our more serious training focused podcast.  https://www.ignitioncoachco.com/podcast      The Following Was Generated Using AI And Should Not Be Held To The Higher Standards Of Sentient Beings - Riverside.     Summary The conversation covers various aspects of cycling, particularly focusing on the Tour de France, rider performances, personal experiences, and the impact of sponsorships. The hosts discuss the excitement of the race, the dynamics between riders, and share personal anecdotes related to cycling and outdoor activities. They also touch on lighter topics such as state dogs and Tom Pidcock's recent victory, creating a well-rounded discussion that blends serious cycling insights with humor and personal stories. In this engaging conversation, the hosts delve into various topics surrounding cycling, including UCI regulations on world champion jerseys, the impressive skills of Tom Pidcock in mountain biking, and the challenges of training and recovery. They also discuss recent mountain biking events, analyze race results, and reflect on personal achievements while engaging with listener questions. In this conversation, the hosts explore a variety of topics ranging from guilty pleasures in food to the potential of athletes from other sports competing in the Tour de France. They discuss the challenges of endurance events like Leadville and the Tour Divide, as well as the mechanics and rules of mountain biking. The conversation also touches on the innovative 32-inch mountain bike and the reactions it has garnered from the cycling community.   Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Misunderstandings 05:21 Rider Commitment and Religious Observances 10:54 Crested Butte Camp Experience 16:11 Travel Plans and Priorities 17:49 Hunting Adventures and Permits 18:11 Tour De France Excitement 21:08 Dog Breeds and Personal Stories 26:37 Tom Pidcock's World Cup Victory 27:34 UCI Regulations and World Champion Jerseys 28:07 Tom Pidcock's Dominance in Mountain Biking 29:34 Comparing Pidcock and Vanderpoel's Skills 30:06 Dylan's Return to Mountain Biking 31:04 Training Routines and Recovery 32:16 Results from Recent Races 33:20 Discussion on the Stateside Crusher Race 35:31 Women's Race Results and Surprises 36:57 Future Races and Personal Goals 41:11 The Impact of Parenthood on Athletes 42:32 Family Racing Adventures 43:20 Altitude Training and Acclimatization 44:55 Memorable Racing Stories 49:54 Collegiate Cycling Reflections 51:42 Listener Questions and Insights 59:07 Snack Flavors and Preferences 01:00:50 Choosing Drinks During Rides 01:02:30 Flavor Ideas for Products 01:05:25 Athletes and the Tour de France 01:10:58 Predictions for Upcoming Races 01:15:50 The Growth of Bikepacking 01:18:15 The Challenge of Time Limits in Racing 01:19:01 Debating Bike Swap Rules in Mountain Biking 01:26:52 Exploring the 32-Inch Mountain Bike Prototype    

Episode 159 - Alex Howes in the House What up party people. Boy do we have a good one for y'all this week. Our guest, Alex Howes, has been a long time coming. To be honest, I'm surprised we waited 159 episodes to finally get Howes in the house because he's just got one of those personalities that meshes perfectly with the vibe of the show. Anyway, tune in for some big announcements and hot takes. If you have any questions or feedback for the show you can drop us a note at bonkbrospodcast@gmail.com or hit up the Bonk Bros instagram page (@bonkbros @dylanjawnson @adamsaban6 @tylerclouti @raddaddizzle @scottmcgilljr).  If you want to support the podcast while also gifting yourself a little some some in the process, you can pick up some of amazing products from any (or all) of our loyal partners and be sure that you're getting the best of the best because we only work with the best of the best.  You can pick up basically anything you could possibly want bike-accessory wise from our friends at Bike Tires Direct. I just mounted up some new Vittoria Barzos on my Santa Cruz Blur for a little extra traction since I'll be ripping trails for the next week in Crested Butte and I gotta say, I've been pretty impressed so far. Check out tires from Vittoria and countless other brands over at biketiresdirect.com and use the code “bonkbros” at checkout. Bolt Skin + Shave. Ah yes, the silky smooth gift of the most advanced leg shaving experience money can buy (for guys who shave their legs at least). Bolt is more than just a razor company, they're also a skin care company with all kinds of skin accessories to improve the quality of your post-shave skin. Head over to boltshave.com today and use the code “BROS15” at checkout. For all bike maintenance and marginal gains needs head over to Silca.cc and use the code “Bonkbrosjuly2025” at checkout for a sweet little discount. If you're tuning into the Tour this weekend you'll see our teammates over at Visma using the full suite of Silca products so if you don't want to take our word for what to get, just go ahead and pick up whatever Visma is using because they probably know second best. We pulled Alex into the Bicycle Accident Law trivia on the show today and as expected, he brought the heat. These segments are fun because they're both informative and entertaining. Not only is Bicycle Accident Law with you on every ride and ready to help you when you need it, they also want to ensure your return to the bike is as seamless as possible. To back that claim up, if any of our listeners do find themselves needing legal services, Scarborough Bicycle Accident Law will pay for 2 months of coaching through Ignition Coach Co when you're ready to return to the bike.  And last but not least this week is definitely a brand you'll be seeing plenty of over the next few weeks at the Tour. That's right, our trustworthy homies over at KetoneAid are doing ketone supplementation right so if you want to get your hands (or mouth) on that same liquid gold as all the fast bois at the Tour then click the link in the show notes to get you some today.  Alright that's enough business for today, let's get this party started!   FOR UPDATED DISCOUNT CODES CHECK THE LATEST EPISODE: Silca (10% discount code: “Bonkbrosjuly2025”): https://silca.cc/?utm_source=Bonk+Bros&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=stripchip&utm_id=Bonk+Bros+Podcast   Bike Tires Direct (10% discount code: bonkbros): https://www.biketiresdirect.com/?utm_source=bonkbros&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=bonkbros2025   Bolt Skin + Shave (BROS15): https://www.boltshave.com   JOIN Cycling: https://join.cc/campaigns/bonkbros   Scarborough Bicycle Accident Law: https://www.bicycleaccidentlaw.com   KetoneAid: https://ketoneaid.com/?utm_source=BonkBros   Dynamic Cyclist (10% discount code: BONKBROS): https://new.dynamiccyclist.com/a/43703/xkYViFV8     Patreon: http://patreon.com/patreon_bonkbros     For more Dylan Johnson content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIf1xvRN8pzyd_VfLgj_dow   Listener Question Form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1T37wGRLk6iYTCF6X_DQ9yfcaYtfAQceKpBJYR5W7DVA/edit?ts=642eb6d6   MERCH: T-SHIRTS ARE HERE! Get your Bonk Bros swag below. https://bb5a73-20.myshopify.com/    IGNITION: Hire a coach. Get faster. It's that simple. https://www.ignitioncoachco.com/   MATCHBOX PODCAST: Check out our more serious training focused podcast.  https://www.ignitioncoachco.com/podcast 

Eighty percent of the world's population can't see the Milky Way. Light pollution interferes. Author and adventurer Craig Childs, of Norwood, Colorado, writes about a trek from light to dark in his new book. "The Wild Dark" takes readers from the incandescence of Las Vegas to the spangled skies of rural Nevada. Childs spoke with Sr. Host Ryan Warner at the Mountain Words Festival in Crested Butte in May. 

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast is a reader-supported publication. Whether you sign up for the free or paid tier, I appreciate your support for independent ski journalism.WhoErik Lambert, Co-Founder of Bluebird Backcountry, Colorado and founder of Bonfire CollectiveRecorded onApril 8, 2025About Bluebird BackcountryLocated in: Just east of the junction of US 40 and Colorado 14, 20-ish miles southwest of Steamboat Springs, ColoradoYears active: 2020 to 2023Closest neighboring U.S. ski areas: Steamboat (:39), Howelsen Hill (:45), Base elevation: 8,600 feetSummit elevation: 9,845 feetVertical drop: 1,245 feetSkiable acres: 4,200-plus acres (3,000 acres guided; 1,200-plus acres avalanche-managed and ski-patrolled)Average annual snowfall: 196 inchesLift fleet: None!Why I interviewed himFirst question: why is the ski newsletter that constantly reminds readers that it's concerned always and only with lift-served skiing devoting an entire podcast episode to a closed ski area that had no lifts at all? Didn't I write this when Indy Pass added Bluebird back in 2022?:Wait a minute, what the f**k exactly is going on here? I have to walk to the f*****g top? Like a person from the past? Before they invented this thing like a hundred years ago called a chairlift? No? You actually ski up? Like some kind of weird humanoid platypus Howard the Duck thing? Bro I so did not sign up for this s**t. I am way too lazy and broken.Yup, that was me. But if you've been here long enough, you know that making fun of things that are hard is my way of making fun of myself for being Basic Ski Bro. Really I respected the hell out of Bluebird, its founders, and its skiers, and earnestly believed for a moment that the ski area could offer a new model for ski area development in a nation that had mostly stopped building them:Bluebird has a lot of the trappings of a lift-served ski area, with 28 marked runs and 11 marked skin tracks, making it a really solid place to dial your uphill kit and technique before throwing yourself out into the wilderness.I haven't really talked about this yet, but I think Bluebird may be the blueprint for re-igniting ski-area development in the vast American wilderness. The big Colorado resorts – other than Crested Butte and Telluride – have been at capacity for years. They keep building more and bigger lifts, but skiing needs a relief valve. One exists in the smaller ski areas that populate Colorado and are posting record business results, but in a growing state in a finally-growing sport, Bluebird shows us another way to do skiing.More specifically, I wrote in a post the following year:Bluebird fused the controlled environment and relative safety of a ski area with the grit and exhilaration of the uphill ski experience. The operating model, stripped of expensive chairlifts and resource-intensive snowmaking and grooming equipment, appeared to suit the current moment of reflexive opposition to mechanized development in the wilderness. For a moment, this patrolled, avalanche-controlled, low-infrastructure startup appeared to be a model for future ski area development in the United States. …If Bluebird could establish a beachhead in Colorado, home to a dozen of America's most-developed ski resorts and nearly one in every four of the nation's skier visits, then it could act as proof-of-concept for a new sort of American ski area. One that provided a novel experience in relative safety, sure, but, more important, one that could actually proceed as a concept in a nation allergic to new ski area development: no chairlifts, no snowmaking, no grooming, no permanent buildings.Dozens of American ski markets appeared to have the right ingredients for such a business: ample snow, empty wilderness, and too many skiers jamming too few ski areas that grow incrementally in size but never in number. If indoor ski areas are poised to become the nation's next-generation incubators, then liftless wilderness centers could create capacity on the opposite end of the skill spectrum, redoubts for experts burned out on liftlines but less enthusiastic about the dangers of touring the unmanaged backcountry. Bluebird could also act as a transition area for confident skiers who wanted to enter the wilderness but needed to hone their uphill and avalanche-analysis skills first. …Bluebird was affordable and approachable. Day tickets started at $39. A season pass cost $289. The ski area rented uphill gear and set skin tracks. The vibe was concert-tailgate-meets-#VanLife-minimalism-and-chill, with free bacon famously served at the mid-mountain yurt.That second bit of analysis, unfortunately, was latched to an article announcing Bluebird's permanent closure in 2023. Co-founder Jeff Woodward told me at the time that Bluebird's relative remoteness – past most of mainline Colorado skiing – and a drying-up of investors drove the shutdown decision.Why now was a good time for this interviewBluebird's 2023 closure shocked the ski community. Over already? A ski area offering affordable, uncrowded, safe uphill skiing seemed too wedded to skiing's post-Covid outdoors-hurray moment to crumble so quickly. Weren't Backcountry Bros multiplying as the suburban Abercrombie and Applebee's masses discovered the outside and flooded lift-served ski areas? I offered a possible explanation for Bluebird's untimely shutdown:There is another, less optimistic reading here. Bluebird may have failed because it's remote and small for its neighborhood. Or we are witnessing perception bump up against reality. The popular narrative is that we are in the midst of a backcountry resurgence, quantified by soaring gear sales and perpetually parked-out trailheads. Hundreds of skiers regularly skin up many western ski areas before the lifts open. But the number of skiers willing to haul themselves up a mountain under their own power is miniscule compared to those who prefer the ease and convenience of a chairlift, which, thanks to the megapass, is more affordable than at any point in modern ski history.Ski media glorifies uphilling. Social media amplifies it. But maybe the average skier just isn't that interested. You can, after all, make your own ice cream or soda or bread, often at considerable initial expense and multiples of the effort and time that it would take to simply purchase these items. A small number of people will engage in these activities out of curiosity or because they possess a craftsman's zeal for assembly. But most will not. And that's the challenge for whoever takes the next run at building a liftless ski area.Still, I couldn't stop thinking about my podcast conversation the year prior with Lonie Glieberman, founder of the improbable and remote Mount Bohemia. When he opened the experts-only, no-snowmaking, no-grooming freefall zone in Michigan's Upper Peninsula in 2000, the ski industry collectively scoffed. It will never work, they promised, and for years it didn't. Boho lost money for a long time. But Glieberman persisted and, through a $99-season-pass strategy and an aggressively curated fist-bump image, Boho now sits at the aspirational pinnacle of Midwest skiing, a pilgrimage spot that is so successful it no longer sells Saturday day-time lift tickets.Could Bluebird have ascended to similar cult destination given more time? I don't know. We might never know.But shortly after Bluebird's shuttering, Erik Lambert, who co-founded Bluebird with Woodward, reached out to me. He's since helped with The Storm's digital-marketing efforts and knows the product well. With two years to process the rapid and permanent unraveling of an enterprise that had for a time consumed his life and passion, he felt ready to tell his version of the Bluebird story. And he asked if we could use The Storm to do it.What we talked aboutHow an East Coast kid developed a backcountry obsession; White Grass, West Virginia; the very long starter-kit list for backcountry skiing; Bluebird as backcountry primer; Jackson Hole as backcountry firestarter; why a nation as expansive and wild as the United States has little suitable land for ready ski area development; a 100-page form to secure a four-day Forest Service permit; early Bluebird pilots at Mosquito Pass and Winter Park; a surprising number of beginners, not just to backcountry, but to skiing; why the founders envisioned a network of Bluebirds; why Bluebird moved locations after season one; creating social scaffolding out of what is “inherently an anti-social experience”; free bacon!; 20 inches to begin operating; “we didn't know if people would actually pay to go backcountry skiing in this kind of environment”; “backcountry skiing was wild and out there, and very few people were doing it”; who Bluebird thought would show up and who actually did – “we were absolutely flummoxed by what transpired”; the good and bad of Bluebird's location; why none of the obvious abandoned Colorado ski areas worked for Bluebird; “we did everything the right way … and the right way is expensive”; “it felt like it was working”; why financing finally ran out; comparisons to Bohemia; “what we really needed was that second location”; moving on from failure – “it's been really hard to talk about for a long time”; Bluebird's legacy – “we were able to get thousands of people their best winter day”; “I think about it every day in one way or another”; the alternate universe of our own pasts; “somebody's going to make something like this work because it can and should exist”; and why I don't think this story is necessarily over just yet.What I got wrong* We mentioned a forthcoming trip to Colorado – that trip is now in the past, and I included GoPro footage of Lambert skiing with me in Loveland on a soft May day.* I heard “New Hampshire” and assigned Lambert's first backcountry outing to Mount Washington and Tuckerman Ravine, but the trek took place in Gulf of Slides.Podcast NotesOn White GrassThe Existing facility that most resembles Bluebird Backcountry is White Grass, West Virginia, ostensibly a cross-country ski area that sits on a 1,200-foot vertical drop and attracts plenty of skinners. I hosted founder Chip Chase on the pod last year:On Forest Service permit boundariesThe developed portion of a ski area is often smaller than what's designated as the “permit area” on their Forest Service masterplan. Copper Mountain's 2024 masterplan, for example, shows large parcels included in the permit that currently sit outside of lift service:On Bluebird's shifting locationsBluebird's first season was set on Whiteley Peak:The following winter, Bluebird shifted operations to Bear Mountain, which is depicted in the trailmap at the top of this article. Lambert breaks down the reasons for this move in our conversation.On breaking my leg in-boundsYeah I know, the regulars have heard me tell this story more times than a bear s***s under the bridge water, but for anyone new here, one of the reasons I am Skis Inbounds Bro is that I did my best Civil War re-enactment at Black Mountain of Maine three years ago. It's kind of a miracle that not only did patrol not have to stuff a rag in my mouth while they sawed my leg off, but that I've skied 156 days since the accident. This is a testament both to being alive in the future and skiing within 300 yards of a Patrol hut equipped with evac sleds and radios to make sure a fentanyl drip is waiting in the base area recovery room. Here's the story: On abandoned Colorado ski areasBerthoud Pass feels like the lost Colorado ski area most likely to have have endured and found a niche had it lasted into our indie-is-cool, alt-megapass world of 2025. Dropping off US 40 11 miles south of Winter Park, the ski area delivered around 1,000 feet of vert and a pair of modern fixed-grip chairlifts. The bump ran from 1937 to 2001 - Colorado Ski History houses the full story.Geneva Basin suffered from a more remote location than Berthoud, and struggled through several owners from its 1963 opening to failed early ‘90s attempts at revitalization (the ski area last operated in 1984, according to Colorado Ski History). The mountain ran a couple of double chairs and surface lifts on 1,250 vertical feet:I also mentioned Hidden Valley, more commonly known as Ski Estes Park. This was another long-runner, hanging around from 1955 to 1991. Estes rocked an impressive 2,000-foot vertical drop, but spun just one chairlift and a bunch of surface lifts, likely making it impossible to compete as the Colorado megas modernized in the 1980s (Colorado Ski History doesn't go too deeply into the mountain's shutdown).On U.S. Forest Service permitsAn oft-cited stat is that roughly half of U.S. ski areas operate on Forest Service land. This number isn't quite right: 116 of America's 501 active ski areas are under Forest Service permits. While this is fewer than a quarter of active ski areas, those 116 collectively house 63 percentage of American ski terrain.I broke this down extensively a couple months back:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing (and sometimes adjacent things such as Bluebird) all year long. Join us. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Super-creative, virtuoso pianist, Holly Bowling joins the show in the first-ever podcast recorded in The Green Room at Garcia's Chicago. Holly shares the etiology of her genre-crossing and improvisational style in between her two incredible debut appearances at this spectacular venue - playing the music of Phish and The Grateful Dead on solo piano! The episode delves into Holly's classical training, influences, and balancing the dual aspects of meticulous arrangement and spontaneous performance in her work, highlighting her diverse approaches to both solo and collaborative concerts.Holly fondly recalls with the hosts her time learning under Phil Lesh at Terrapin Crossroads and the impact it had on her musical career and relationships. The conversation takes listeners behind the scenes of Holly's musical endeavors during the pandemic, uniquely recording while immersed in spectacular national landscapes (The Wilderness Sessions), and how she cleverly lured GreenSky Bluegrass into her world. Holly also provides a glimpse into her personal life, including her experiences as a mother and the musical talent of her young son, Ryland.HIGHLIGHTSThe whole point of playing music for other people is to connect emotionally.  It's the sameness of the human experience… we're all human doing this life thing together. My favorite shows I've ever attended are the ones where there is that kind of emotional range and depth, whether it's total joy and ecstasy to shows where I have wept in public.  -Holly Bowling on how she uses the piano to evoke the emotions and feelings of an audience, much in the same way Jerry Garcia did with his guitar.I'm really excited about it. Everyone's like, “you're doing a solo piano show, a quiet listening thing at Cervantes?” I'm like, yes. It's going to be amazing. We're gonna totally turn the expectations upside down. It's also a party.  My shows are a much more inward experience, so we're going to drop a grand piano in there, put seats in, and transform it in a way that most people have never seen Cervantes.                                                  -Holly Bowling on playing a show at the Cervantes Masterpiece Ballroom in Denver on July 2, 2025, the night before Phish's run in Boulder.LINKShttps://www.hollybowling.com/https://www.youtube.com/@HollyBowlingHolly Bowling Live Shows on nugs.nethttps://garciaschicago.live/ HOLLY BOWLING SUMMER SHOWS (2025)June 13-26: Northlands Music & Arts Festival, Swanzey, NHJune 22: Tower Theatre, Bend, ORJune 30: Alpenglow Concert Series, Crested Butte, COJuly 2: Cervantes' Masterpiece Ballroom, Denver, COJuly 3-6: High Sierra Music Festival, Quincy, CAJuly 17-18: SFJAZZ Center,  San Francisco, CAJuly 20, 2025: Terrapin Road Show, San Rafael, CAAugust 1-3: Kaslo Jazz Etc. Festival, Kaslo, BCAugust 9: (with Greensky Bluegrass), Grand Targhee Bluegrass Fest, Alta, WYAugust 10: Re/Evolution Summerjam, Darrington, WASeptember 20-21: Annapolis Baygrass Music Festival, Annapolis, MDMUSICHolly Bowling – The Wilderness Sessions, Live From The Salt Flats

James Harenchar is the President & CEO of Response Marketing Group, a consumer-data-focused marketing agency in Richmond, Va. As such, he is responsible for relationship development and account strategy at the independent agency, which offers marketing strategy/planning, data analytics, and interactive services. The agency serves many clients in the financial services, tourism, and healthcare sectors. RMG was founded in 1986 and their approach is consistent with the success gleaned from 35+ years of experience – data insights married to relevant messaging to the target audience. They are channel-neutral and work with select clients to define the KPIs that will drive revenue growth, customer growth, and increased asset values. They have developed several proprietary Ad Tech solutions that have introduced game-changing outcomes for DMOs across the US. In addition to serving as CEO, Jim leads the Travel and Tourism practice for RMG, which includes clients such as Arkansas Tourism, Georgia Tourism, Visit Savannah, Crested Butte, The Ritz Carlton, and The Resort Hotel Association among others. He is a thought leader within the tourism sector and a frequent speaker at the Southeast Tourism Society conference, Forrester Marketing Conference, Ad Federation, DestiCon, and Gartner. Prior to Response Marketing Group, Jim was Senior Vice President at The Allant Group in Chicago, IL from 2010-2014. He led the Strategic Consulting practice that delivered marketing strategy and high-level research to CMOs and brand managers at clients such as GM, Comcast, Nationwide Insurance, US Tennis Association, US Cellular, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, and Wells Fargo. Connect with Jon Dwoskin: Twitter: @jdwoskin Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.dwoskin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejondwoskinexperience/ Website: https://jondwoskin.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jondwoskin/ Email: jon@jondwoskin.com Get Jon's Book: The Think Big Movement: Grow your business big. Very Big!   Connect with James Harenchar: Website: www.rmg-usa.com X: https://www.twitter.com/RMG_USA_VA LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jharenchar/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rmgusallc                                     *E – explicit language may be used in this podcast.

Eighty percent of the world's population can't see The Milky Way. Light pollution interferes. Author and adventurer Craig Childs, of Norwood, Colorado, writes about a trek from light to dark in his new book. "The Wild Dark" takes readers from the incandescence of Las Vegas to the spangled skies of rural Nevada. Childs spoke with Sr. Host Ryan Warner at this month's Mountain Words Festival in Crested Butte. 

This country's nuclear arsenal is “geriatric.” And many of the people who maintain it are heading towards retirement. Plus, the agency that oversees the nuclear arsenal has not been immune to the possibility of federal staffing cuts. Colorado science writer Sarah Scoles examines the future of nuclear defense in her book, “Countdown: The Blinding Future of Nuclear Weapons.” She spoke with Ryan Warner at the Center for the Arts in Crested Butte during last spring's Mountain Words Festival.Ryan will be back at this year's festival on May 24 to interview author Craig Childs, whose new book is "The Wild Dark: Finding the Night Sky in the Age of Light."

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and to support independent ski journalism, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.WhoTrent Poole, Vice President and General Manager of Hunter Mountain, New YorkRecorded onMarch 19, 2025About Hunter MountainClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Vail ResortsLocated in: Hunter, New YorkYear founded: 1959Pass affiliations:* Epic Pass, Epic Local Pass – unlimited access* Epic Northeast Value Pass – unlimited access with holiday blackouts* Epic Northeast Midweek Pass – unlimited access with holiday and midweek blackouts* Epic Day Pass – All Resorts, 32 Resorts tiersClosest neighboring ski areas: Windham (:16), Belleayre (:35), Plattekill (:49)Base elevation: 1,600 feetSummit elevation: 3,200 feetVertical drop: 1,600 feetSkiable acres: 320Average annual snowfall: 120 inchesTrail count: 67 (25% beginner, 30% intermediate, 45% advanced)Lift count: 13 (3 six-packs, 1 high-speed quad, 2 fixed-grip quads, 1 triple, 2 doubles, 1 platter, 3 carpets)Why I interviewed himSki areas are like political issues. We all feel as though we need to have an opinion on them. This tends to be less a considered position than an adjective. Tariffs are _______. Killington is _______. It's a bullet to shoot when needed. Most of us aren't very good shots.Hunter tends to draw a particularly colorful basket of adjectives: crowded, crazy, frantic, dangerous, icy, frozen, confusing, wild. Hunter, to the weekend visitor, appears to be teetering at all times on the brink of collapse. So many skiers on the lifts, so many skiers in the liftlines, so many skiers on the trails, so many skiers in the parking lots, so many skiers in the lodge pounding shots and pints. Whether Hunter is a ski area with a bar attached or a bar with a ski area attached is debatable. The lodge stretches on and on and up and down in disorienting and disconnected wings, a Winchester Mansion of the mountains, stapled together over eons to foil the alien hordes (New Yorkers). The trails run in a splintered, counterintuitive maze, an impossible puzzle for the uninitiated. Lifts fly all over, 13 total, of all makes and sizes and vintage, but often it feels as though there is only one lift and that lift is the Kaatskill Flyer, an overwhelmed top-to-bottom six-pack that replaced an overwhelmed top-to-bottom high-speed quad on a line that feels as though it would be overwhelmed with a high-speed 85-pack. It is, in other words, exactly the kind of ski area you would expect to find two hours north of a 20-million-person megacity world famous for its blunt, abrasive, and bare-knuckled residents.That description of Hunter is accurate enough, but incomplete. Yes, skiing there can feel like riding a swinging wrecking ball through a tenement building. And I would probably suggest that as a family activity before I would recommend Hunter on, say, MLK Saturday. But Hunter is also a glorious hunk of ski history, a last-man-standing of the once-skiing-flush Catskills, a nature-bending prototype of a ski mountain built in a place that lacks both consistent natural snow and fall lines to ski on. It may be a corporate cog now, but the Hunter hammered into the mountains over nearly six decades was the dream and domain of the Slutsky family, many of whom still work for the ski area. And Hunter, on a midweek, when all those fast lifts are 10 times more capacity than you need, can be a dream. Fast up, fast down. And once you learn the trail network, the place unfolds like a picnic blanket: easy, comfortable, versatile, filled with delicious options (if occasionally covered with ants).There's no one good way to describe Hunter Mountain. It's different every day. All ski areas are different every day, but Hunter is, arguably, more more different along the spectrum of its extremes than just about any other ski area anywhere. You won't get it on your first visit. You will show up on the wrong day, at the wrong time, in the wrong parking lot, and the whole thing will feel like playing lasertag with hyenas. Alien hyenas. Who will for some reason all be wearing Jets jerseys. But if you push through for that second visit, you'll start to get it. Maybe. I promise. And you'll understand why one-adjective Hunter Mountain descriptions are about as useful as the average citizen's take on NATO.What we talked aboutSixty-five years of Hunter; a nice cold winter at last; big snowmaking upgrades; snowmaking on Annapurna and Westway; the Otis and Broadway lift upgrades; Broadway ripple effects on the F and Kaatskill Flyer lifts; supervising the installation of seven new lifts at three Vail Resorts over a two-year period; better liftline management; moving away from lettered lift names; what Otis means for H lift; whether the Hunter East mountaintop Poma could ever spin again; how much of Otis is re-used from the old Broadway lift; ski Ohio; landing at Vail Resorts pre-Epic Pass and watching the pass materialize and grow; taking over for a GM who had worked at Hunter for 44 years; understanding and appreciating Hunter madness; Hunter locals mixed with Vail Resorts; Hunter North and the potential for an additional base area; disappearing trailmap glades; expansion potential; a better ski connection to Hunter East; and Epic Local as Hunter's season pass.Questions I wish I'd askedI'd wanted to ask Poole about the legacy of the Slutzky family, given their founding role at Hunter. We just didn't have time. New York Ski Blog has a nice historical overview.I actually did ask Poole about D lift, the onetime triple-now-double parallel to Kaatskill Flyer, but we cut that segment in edit. A summary: the lift didn't run at all this past season, and Poole told me that, “we're keeping our options open,” when I asked him if D lift was a good candidate to be removed at some near-future point.Why now was a good time for this interviewThe better question is probably why I waited five-and-a-half years to feature the leader of the most prominent ski area in New York City's orbit on the podcast. Hunter was, after all, the first mountain I hit after moving to the city in 2002. But who does and does not appear on the podcast is grounded in timing more than anything. Vail announced its acquisition of Hunter parent company Peak Resorts just a couple of months before I launched The Storm, in 2019. No one, including me, really likes doing podcast interviews during transitions, which can be filled with optimism and energy, but also uncertainty and instability. The Covid asteroid then transformed what should have been a one-year transition period into more like a three-year transition period, which was followed by a leadership change at Hunter.But we're finally here. And, as it turns out, this was a pretty good time to arrive. Part of the perpetual Hunter mess tied back to the problem I alluded to above: the six-pack-Kaatskill-Flyer-as-alpha-lift muted the impact of the lesser contraptions around it. By dropping a second superlift right next door, Vail appears to have finally solved the problem of the Flyer's ever-exploding liftline.That's one part of the story, and the most obvious. But the snowmaking upgrades on key trails signal Hunter's intent to reclaim its trophy as Snow God of the New York Thruway. And the shuffling of lifts on Hunter East reconfigured the ski area's novice terrain into a more logical progression (true green-circle skiers, however, will be better off at nearby Belleayre, where the Lightning Quad serves an incredible pod of long and winding beginner runs).These 2024 improvements build on considerable upgrades from the Peak and Slutzky eras, including the 2018 Hunter North expansion and the massive learning center at Hunter East. If Hunter is to remain a cheap and accessible Epic Pass fishing net to funnel New Yorkers north to Stowe and west to Park City, even as neighboring Windham tilts ever more restrictive and expensive, then Vail is going to have to be creative and aggressive in how the mountain manages all those skiers. These upgrades are a promising start.Why you should ski Hunter MountainThink of a thing that is a version of a familiar thing but hits you like a completely different thing altogether. Like pine trees and palm trees are both trees, but when I first encountered the latter at age 19, they didn't feel like trees at all, but like someone's dream of a tree who'd had one described to them but had never actually seen one. Or horses and dolphins: both animals, right? But one you can ride like a little vehicle, and the other supposedly breathes air but lives beneath the sea plotting our extinction in a secret indecipherable language. Or New York-style pizza versus Domino's, which, as Midwest stock, I prefer, but which my locally born wife can only describe as “not pizza.”This is something like the experience you will have at Hunter Mountain if you show up knowing a good lot about ski areas, but not much about this ski area. Because if I had to make a list of ski areas similar to Hunter, it would include “that Gwar concert I attended at Harpos in Detroit when I was 18” and “a high-tide rescue scene in a lifeguard movie.” And then I would run out of ideas. Because there is no ski area anywhere remotely like Hunter Mountain.I mean that as spectacle, as a way to witness New York City's id manifest into corporeal form. Your Hunter Mountain Bingo card will include “Guy straightlining Racer's Edge with unzipped Starter jacket and backward baseball cap” and “Dude rocking short-sleeves in 15-degree weather.” The vibe is atomic and combustible, slightly intimidating but also riotously fun, like some snowy Woodstock:And then there's the skiing. I have never skied terrain like Hunter's. The trails swoop and dive and wheel around endless curves, as though carved into the Tower of Babel, an amazing amount of terrain slammed into an area that looks and feels constrained, like a bound haybale that, twine cut, explodes across your yard. Trails crisscross and split and dig around blind corners. None of it feels logical, but it all comes together somehow. Before the advent of Google Maps, I could not plot an accurate mental picture of how Hunter East, West, North, and whatever the hell they call the front part sat in relation to one another and formed a coherent single entity.I don't always like being at Hunter. And yet I've skied there more than I've skied just about anywhere. And not just because it's close. It's certainly not cheap, and the road in from the Thruway is a real pain in the ass. But they reliably spin the lifts from November to April, and fast lifts on respectable vert can add up quick. And the upside of crazy? Everyone is welcome.Podcast NotesOn Hunter's lift upgradesHunter orchestrated a massive offseason lift upgrade last year, moving the old Broadway (B) lift over to Hunter East, where the mountain demolished a 1968 Hall Double named “E,” and planted its third six-pack on a longer Broadway line. Check the old lines versus the new ones:On six-packs in New York StateNew York is home to more ski areas than any other state, but only eight of them run high-speed lifts, and only three host six-packs: Holiday Valley has one, Windham, next door to Hunter, has another, and Hunter owns the other three.On five new lifts at Jack Frost Big BoulderPart of Vail Resorts' massive 2022 lift upgrades was to replace eight old chairlifts at Jack Frost and Big Boulder with five modern fixed-grip quads.At Jack Frost, Paradise replaced the E and F doubles; Tobyhanna replaced the B and C triples; and Pocono replaced the E and F doubles:Over at Big Boulder, the Merry Widow I and II double-doubles made way for the Harmony quad. Vail also demolished the parallel Black Forest double, which had not run in a number of years. Blue Heron replaced an area once served by the Little Boulder double and Edelweiss Triple – check the side-by-side with Big Boulder's 2008 trailmap:Standing up so many lifts in such a short time is rare, but we do have other examples:* In 1998, Intrawest tore down up to a dozen legacy lifts and replaced them with five new ones: two high-speed quads, two fixed-grip quads, and the Cabriolet bucket lift (basically a standing gondola). A full discussion on that here.* American Skiing Company installed at least four chairlifts at Sugarbush in the summer of 1995, including the Slide Brook Express, a two-mile-long lift connection between its two mountains. More here.* Powder Mountain installed four chairlifts last summer.* Deer Valley built five chairlifts last summer, including a bubble six-pack, and is constructing eight more lifts this year.On Mad River Mountain, OhioMad River is about as prototypical a Midwest ski area as you can imagine: 300 vertical feet, 144 acres, 36 inches of average annual snowfall, and an amazing (for that size) nine ski lifts shooting all over the place:On Vail Resorts' acquisition timelineHunter is one of 17 U.S. ski areas that Vail purchased as part of its 2019 acquisition of Peak Resorts.On Hunter's 2018 expansionWhen Peak opened the Hunter West expansion for the 2018-19 ski season, a number of new glades appeared on the map:Most of those glades disappeared from the map. Why? We discuss.On Epic Pass accessHunter sits on the same unlimited Epic Local Pass tier as Okemo, Mount Snow, Breckenridge, Keystone, Crested Butte, and Stevens Pass. Here's an Epic Pass overview:You can also ski Hunter on the uber-cheap 32 Resorts version of the Epic Day Pass:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Johen DeLeon is an up and coming pro trail runner from Crested Butte, CO. We discovered Johen at the Cirque Series A-Basin last September where he finished 2nd behind Patrick Kipngeno in a very competitive field. We did an interview with Johen after the race where the Freetrail team and the extended Freetrail audience fell in love with Johen, his personality, and his story. During that interview an idea was born to crowdfund Johen's participation at back to back Golden Trail World Series events on the following two weekends. It was the start of a great friendship.   Today, Johen joins for a real long form chat about his background, goals for the future, and a really exciting new partnership with SATISFY.    This weekend, Johen will race at The Big Alta 28k, making his competitive debut with his new sponsors.   Follow Johen on IG Follow Johen on Strava Register for TrailCon   Sponsors:   Use code freetrail10 for 10% off Speedland Footwear Grab a trail running pack from Osprey Use code FREETRAIL25 for 25% off your first order of NEVERSECOND nutrition at never2.com Go to ketone.com/freetrail30 for 30% off a subscription of Ketone IQ   Freetrail Links: Website | Freetrail Pro | Patreon | Instagram | YouTube | Freetrail Experts   Dylan Links: Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn | Strava

Pack your slides and fuzzy socks and hit the road. Summer Travel: Destinations: Crested Butte, Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard. Also Wedding Trends, Cultivating Creativity in Midlife and Entertaining Sisters. Plus, spending the night at JFK! Originally aired July 2023. Sign up for our weekly newsletter PEP TALK here: https://conta.cc/2OxTnogThanks to Earth Breeze Detergent Sheets for sponsoring this episodePre-Order The Marriage Sabbatical in paperback herePre-Order a Signed Copy of Abigail and Alexa Save the Wedding here. Show Notes:Crested Buttehttps://travelcrestedbutte.com/Martha's Vineyardhttps://www.mvy.com/Nantucket Book Festivalhttps://nantucketbookfestival.org/Roadside attractions:The Ultimate Roadside Attraction Road Triphttps://www.thediscoverer.com/blog/the-ultimate-roadside-attraction-roadtrip/XvHyVpKgiwAG5amF?utm_source=blog&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1831465429&ST=RF_ANantucket Book Festival RecommendationsThe Revolutionary: Samuel Adams by Stacy Shiffhttps://stacyschiff.com/books-and-essays-by-stacy-schiff.htmlMad Honey by Jodi Picoult and Jennifer Finney Boylehttps://www.amazon.com/Mad-Honey-Novel-Jodi-Picoult/dp/1984818384Look for Me There: Grieving My Father, Finding Myself by Luke Russethttps://linktr.ee/lukerussertDaughters of Nantucket by Julie Gerstenblatthttps:/www.harpercollins.com/products/daughters-of-nantucket-julie-gerstenblatt?variant=40993047478306Lian Wedding Block: Popular months to get married:https://www.theknot.com/content/is-there-an-off-season-for-weddingsTrends according to Marthahttps://www.marthastewart.com/8360486/wedding-trendsWedding dress trendshttps://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/10/fashion/weddings/modern-bride-wedding-dress-shopping.htmlBest Beach Bag Book List: You can see and buy all the 2023 books here. https://bookshop.org/lists/satellite-sisters-best-beach-bag-books-2023Go to the Satellite Sisters website here: https://satellitesisters.comSHOP the Satellite Sisters Shop here: https://www.cafepress.com/satellitesi...Subscribe to the Satellite Sisters YouTube Channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVkl...JOIN OUR COMMUNITY: - Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/SatelliteSis...Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/satel...Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/satsisters/Twitter: https://twitter.com/SatSisters - Email: hello@satellitesisters.comLian Dolan on Instagram @liandolan: https://www.instagram.com/liandolan/Liz Dolan on Instagram @satellitesisterliz: https://www.instagram.com/satellitesi...Julie Dolan on @Instagram @julieoldesister https://www.instagram.com/julieoldestsister/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Tony Harrington aka Harro is a legendary Aussie ski, snowboard, and surf photographer with roots in the sports that go back 40 years. From McConkey to Sage, from Fanning to Slater, Harro has shot the greats and more importantly, has earned their respect and won their friendship. In part one of his podcast, we talk about the adventuring life and times that led him to create his life's masterpiece, his “Defining Moments” book. His roots go deep and his stores are amazing. Tony Harrington Show Notes: 4:00:  Jackson Hole, spacing out his year, spiders, sharks, growing up in Australia, daredevil kid, and surfing 21:00:  The best skiing you don't know about is in Idaho, head on over to www.skiidaho.us to find out more Stanley:  The brand that invented the category! Only the best for Powell Movement listeners.  Check out Stanley1913.com  Discount Code: Powell1913 Best Day Brewing:  All of the flavor of your favorite IPA or Kolsch, without the alcohol, the calories, and sugar. 24:00:  Young entrepreneur, rogue, his first camera, locals-only, camera danger, photos published, aa 42:00:  Elan Skis:  Over 75 years of innovation that makes you better. Insta360 Video Cameras:  Buy the X4, at checkout, use the code Powell and get a free ski pole or snowboard split board pole mount    Discount Code: Powell Outdoor Research:  the best outerwear is designed and tested in the brutal elements of the Pacific Northwest 45:00:  Skiing, quitting his electrician gig, fun right now, Hot Shots, setting up his own shop, Crested Butte, and Jackson Hole 53:00:  Jeff Zell, contests, Alaska, World Heli Challenge, mixing ski and snowboard, and the best of ski, snow, and surf  75:00:  Inappropriate Questions   Buy the book "Defining Moments" here:  https://harroart.com/pages/shop 

McKenna Peterson is a pro skier, that's rad, but being the captain of the Atlantis and an Alaskan Commercial Fisherman is what separates her badassery from the rest of the pro ski world. Born into a ski bum family, McKenna had early Olympic dreams, but racing never materialized for her. Neither did big mountain contests, but they helped McKenna find her tribe, and she was able to parlay that into a 15-year career of pro skiing in the winter and Captain in the summer. On the podcast, we talk Sun Valley, racing, partying, opportunities, Crazy Karl, and so much more. Amie Engerbretson asks the ‘Inappropriate Questions'. McKenna Peterson Show Notes: 4:00:  Cell phones, Knee injury, telling sponsors, contracts and money, sexism in the water and on the mountain and her ski bum parents. 21:00:  Insta360 Video Cameras: Buy the X4, at checkout, use the code Powell and get a free ski pole or snowboard split board pole mount Stanley:  The brand that invented the category! Only the best for Powell Movement listeners.  Check out Stanley1913.com  Best Day Brewing:  All of the flavor of your favorite IPA or Kolsch, without the alcohol, the calories and sugar. 24:00:  Ballet, ski racing, not being good enough, canyon party, college in Boulder, finding her tribe in Crested Butte, big mountain contests, Ryan Hawks, and getting sponsors     40:30:  Thermic Heated Socks and Dissent Labs socks (non- heated) Elan Skis:  Over 75 years of innovation that makes you better. Outdoor Research:  the best outerwear is designed and tested in the brutal elements of the Pacific Northwest 42:00:  Content opportunities, Warren Miller, John Falkiner, Matchstick Productions, Brap Ski, losing her dad, life on the water, Greenland 72:00:  Inappropriate Questions with Amie Engerbretson