Podcasts about mind change

Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS) isn't only genetic—it can be the body's brilliant way of expressing unprocessed emotion and inherited stress. In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast, Heather McKean reveals how childhood hyper-vigilance, people-pleasing, and family trauma may wire the nervous system for chronic pain, joint instability, and fatigue—then shows how the Mind Change Method helps rewire those patterns for lasting relief.In this conversation you'll learn:

Donna Winship left the American dream with her husband, Jamie and their three boys and spent 25 years raising their family in Southeast Asia and the Middle East. This was a journey that would forever change her life.Living overseas in a predominantly Muslim country, Donna discovered the principles of the Kingdom of God as demonstrated by Jesus and learned to live fearlessly in her true identity. When put into daily practice, these principles result in peace that surpasses understanding and truth that results in genuine freedom, even in an atmosphere of war, terrorism and death.Donna Winship is the CEO of Identity Exchange and the wife of Jamie Winship, who is the author of Living Fearlessly. What I learned from Donna in our conversation:It is not about the severity of the trauma or life event, it is the response to it. The response often triggers a deep lie and belief that takes root. There is no power in the lie unless you come into agreement with the lie. Listening Prayer is asking God questions that point you back to your true identity. People worship their theology and fear changing because of what would happen if Jesus really transformed me. People are stuck in false identities and get their identities from their various "right" beliefs. Start here, ask God: Who do you say I am? What do you want me to know? What do you want me to do?Try this in your organization: Truth Tell about what you are afraid of right now? Mind Change what is true? Form Change, what will you do?Start here to get a foundation of what living in your true identity could do for you, your family, and your organization. Identity Camp by Jamie Winship --To start working with Lantz as your professional coach, go to www.lantzhoward.com and take the free assessment. --Did you find this conversation useful and encouraging?Share it with a friend that you care about. --Follow Lantz on LinkedIn.

Food allergies aren't random defects—they're often your body's way of flagging unresolved emotional wounds. In this episode, Heather & Kent McKean reveal how childhood trauma, attachment patterns, and nervous-system dysregulation can program the brain to link certain foods with danger—creating real, escalating symptoms.What's inside:

Your thoughts are not harmless—they're powerful, shaping your actions, your peace, and your future. What if the anxiety, confusion, or frustration you're facing isn't the problem, but how you're thinking about it? Philippians 4:8 gives us more than advice—it gives us a strategy to take back our minds.  If you're ready to stop letting your thoughts control you and start renewing your mind with God's Word, this message is just the beginning.

What if your tendonitis wasn't just physical? In this episode, Heather McKean unpacks the emotional and subconscious drivers behind tendon inflammation, revealing how internal conflict, rigidity, and suppressed self-worth can manifest as physical pain. From childhood experiences to adult stressors, she explores how our minds create tension that our bodies can no longer hold. Tune in to learn how to identify the root causes of your symptoms, shift subconscious narratives, and regain your sense of emotional and physical freedom using the Mind Change Method.

We often filter what we put into our bodies, but neglect to filter what we allow into our minds—and yet, our thoughts shape our lives. Romans 12:2 reminds us that transformation begins with the renewing of our minds. If your mind is cluttered with fear, doubt, or distraction, it could be blocking what God wants to add to your life. A filtered mind isn't just peaceful—it's powerful. What could change if you started thinking differently?  

When Brenda Tillman joined a Mind Change book club during the isolation of the COVID pandemic, she never imagined it would lead to rediscovering her childhood memories, reshaping her inner world, and finding healing from long-buried trauma.In this episode, Brenda shares how Mind Change not only helped her deepen her self-awareness, but also gave her tools to improve her marriage, embrace aging with joy, and reignite a lifelong sense of curiosity. Whether you're facing personal blocks or simply looking for the encouragement to keep growing, this episode will show you what's possible when you choose to do the work. Heather and Brenda dive into neuroscience, emotional healing, and the power of community in a way that's both accessible and inspiring.

Heather McKean explores the emotional drivers behind Parkinson's, including childhood trauma, perfectionism, guilt, and suppression of emotion. Learn how the mind may "do" Parkinson's as a way to gain control, release overwhelming responsibility, or express unresolved pain. With powerful insights and hope-filled guidance, Heather shows how the Mind Change method can help rewire these internal patterns and restore freedom. Whether you or someone you love is affected, this episode offers a radically compassionate and empowering new perspective.

The Source by Dr. Tara Swart, MD PhD, marries universal truths with scientific rigor. If we strip away the mystique, at the heart of this idea is a fundamental truth that is backed up by the latest breakthroughs in neuroscience: most of the things we want from life – health, happiness, wealth, love - are governed by our ability to think, feel and act; in other words, by our brain.Open Your Mind, Change Your Life"The Source" by Dr. Tara Swart Book PReviewBook of the Week - BOTW - Season 8 Book 17Buy the book on Amazon https://amzn.to/3Gv88GJ GET IT. READ :)#brain #plasticity #growth FIND OUT which HUMAN NEED is driving all of your behaviorhttp://6-human-needs.sfwalker.com/Human Needs Psychology + Emotional Intelligence + Universal Laws of Nature = MASTER OF LIFE AWARENESShttps://www.sfwalker.com/master-life-awareness

 In this episode, Heather McKean and Carrie unpack Carrie's decades-long battle with pain, caretaking, and dissociation—and how the Mind Change Method led her to rediscover her true self. From hip pain to heartbreak, ruminating thoughts to relationship tension, Carrie's journey is a powerful testament to what's possible when you stop managing life and start feeling it. Whether you're a healer, seeker, or skeptic, this episode will inspire hope, healing, and the courage to rewrite your story.

In this Q&R episode, Heather and Kent respond to listener questions about physical pain, illness, weight gain, and belief systems—and how Mind Change can help shift them all. You'll learn why emotional drivers are powerful but not required for healing, how your subconscious programming could be affecting your body, and what to do if your partner isn't yet on board with your growth. Whether you're new to Mind Change or deep in your journey, this episode is packed with real talk, deep insight, and practical tools to help you move forward.

Dr. Joe Dispenza is a renowned author, speaker, and educator in the fields of neuroscience, epigenetics, and quantum physics. He has spent over three decades studying the mind-body connection and the ways in which we can harness our thoughts and emotions to create positive change in our lives.Take action and strengthen your mind with The Resilient Mind Journal. Get your free digital copy today: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/Download_JournalSubscribe to Steven Bartlett for more inspiring videos: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheDiaryOfACEO Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast emotional drivers series, Heather McKean unpacks the subconscious patterns that may be driving epilepsy, offering a new perspective on healing. From childhood trauma to internalized pressure, discover the hidden emotional connections behind seizures and how understanding them could be the key to transformation. Don't miss this eye-opening discussion on mind-body healing!

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast, Heather McKean sits down with Monja Delport, a Mind Change practitioner who unexpectedly found her calling after witnessing her husband's recovery from chronic pain. Monja opens up about her journey from skepticism to empowerment, revealing how changing subconscious patterns transformed her life, relationships, and parenting. They discuss the power of self-tending, the impact of childhood trauma, and how reprogramming the mind can create lasting, positive change. If you've ever felt trapped by your thoughts or circumstances, this conversation will show you another way forward.

Pastor Matt Grubb, March 16, 2025

In this episode, Heather McKean, Kent McKean, and McKenzie Brewster break down the difference between conscious and subconscious healing, the pitfalls of surface-level self-help, and why many healing modalities fall short. Heather shares her journey from chronic illness to radical transformation and how Mind Change provides a unique, neuroscience-backed approach to deep, lasting breakthroughs. Whether you're stuck in cycles of therapy, self-help, or mindset work, this episode will shift your perspective on what it really takes to change your life.

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast emotional drivers series, Heather McKean reveals how suppressed anger, unresolved childhood trauma, and emotional repression contribute to UC and other inflammatory bowel diseases. She explores why so many people feel trapped in cycles of pain and how Mind Change techniques can help release deep-seated emotional patterns to support healing. If you're struggling with UC, IBS, or other gut-related issues, this episode offers powerful insights into the emotional roots of your condition—and how to break free.

Thank you for listening! Please click the SUBSCRIBE button to be notified of new episodes.  We'd love for you to join us in person Sundays @10am, 3043 Gender Rd, Reynoldsburg OH 43068  Today, if you made a decision to follow Jesus, would like some guidance on your next steps, want more information on getting involved, or would like prayer, fill out our digital Connect Card by visiting https://mysimplechurch.churchcenter.com/people/forms/78525  For giving opportunities visit https://mysimple.church/giving   For all things Simple Church, visit our main website at https://MySimple.Church "Podcast Opening Music: http://www.bensound.com/royalty-free-music”

What if you could rewire your brain to create the life you want? In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast, Heather McKean talks with Gabriel Almazan about his incredible journey with Mind Change. Gabe shares how he overcame childhood trauma, public speaking anxiety, and a fear of the ocean—all through the power of mindset and manifesting. Discover how daily meditation, intentional thinking, and the Mind Change process helped Gabe achieve breakthroughs in his health, relationships, and career. Tune in and learn how you, too, can harness the power of your mind to manifest a life you love.

How do thoughts and emotions impact our physical health as well as our mental and emotional well-being? Guest Reema Datta offers ancient yogic techniques that empower us to break free from the challenges of modern society so we can experience lasting inner peace and good health in all ways.

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast, emotional drivers series, Heather McKean explores the hidden emotional drivers behind POTS, tracing its historical roots from "Soldier's Heart" in Civil War veterans to its current prevalence in young women. She breaks down how childhood experiences, generational trauma, and societal pressures can shape the autonomic nervous system, leading to chronic dysregulation, anxiety, and physical symptoms. Heather also reveals key subconscious patterns that keep people stuck in cycles of illness—and how Mind Change can help rewrite the narrative for lasting healing. Tune in for insightful breakthroughs and a new perspective on POTS.

Message Notes for Today's Sermon. Click Here - https://gileadchurch.churchcenter.com/episodes/432404/notes Outline for Today's Sermon. Click Here - https://www.gileadchurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2-9-25NEW.pdf Digital Connection Card Click Here to fill one out - https://gileadchurch.churchcenter.com/people/forms/202250 Having Trouble with the Live Stream? Click Here to watch on our website - https://www.gileadchurch.com/ Looking to Give Online? Click Here - https://www.gileadchurch.com/giving/ Did you make a decision today and want to take your Next Step? Click Here - https://www.gileadchurch.com/next-steps/ To Listen to Our Podcasts: Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/.../gilead-church.../id322393078 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0sOidhOjzZepJFlQp2ZJWZ... Google: https://podcasts.google.com?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9oZWFsaW5ndG91Y2hwb2RjYXN0LmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz For More From Gilead Church: http://www.gileadchurch.com/ https://www.facebook.com/gileadchurch1/ https://www.instagram.com/gilead_church/

Welcome to the Season 3 premiere of The Mind Change Podcast! Join Heather and Kent McKean as they discuss what's in store for the new season, from emotional drivers to new topics like ADHD, cancer, and menopause. Hear about exciting upcoming interviews, a transformative wellness retreat, and the launch of Mind Change's updated book in multiple languages. Tune in for all the latest news and get ready for an inspiring season ahead!

Stacey Tisdale & Lazetta Braxton on 'Change Your Mind, Change Your Money' + moreSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stacey Tisdale & Lazetta Braxton on 'Change Your Mind, Change Your Money' + moreSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this Season 2 finale of The Mind Change Podcast, Heather and Kent McKean celebrate a year of transformation and growth, reflecting on powerful client stories, inspiring interviews, and milestones like ranking in the top 2% of podcasts globally.They revisit highlights, including Ellen Fisher's empowered birth journey, a veteran overcoming decades of PTSD, and breakthroughs in addiction recovery and mental health. Heather shares personal insights from her series on estrangement, while they explore the success of their Emotional Drivers series and practitioner training programs. Tune in for an inspiring recap of an incredible year!

In this episode, I share with you how to changing your mindset will change your life! Go to https://www.erafael.com/ if you want my help, coaching or mentorship :) #SelfImprovement #PersonalDevelopment #Motivation #SelfHelp Subscribe to my YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/rafaeleliassen/ Follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rafaeleliassen/

Join Heather and Kent McKean in this special Q&A episode of The Mind Change Podcast, where they tackle your most pressing questions. Discover how to heal trauma while on medication, why some symptoms intensify during healing, and how perception shapes your sense of safety.They also discuss breaking generational trauma, supporting children's emotional well-being, and why healing yourself is the greatest gift you can give your family. Tune in for practical advice, relatable insights, and inspiring stories of transformation through the Mind Change method.Episode topics:

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast emotional drivers series, Heather McKean uncovers the hidden emotional drivers behind urinary tract infections (UTIs). She reveals how the urinary tract's role in filtering waste can mirror our struggle to let go of toxic relationships, emotions, or beliefs. From suppressed anger and fear of abandonment to unfulfilled emotional needs, Heather explains how UTIs might be your body's way of communicating deeper emotional truths. Tune in! Discover how Mind Change tools can help you release these burdens, foster self-love, and create lasting relief. Whether it's addressing unresolved anger, rethinking vulnerability, or reframing intimacy, this episode will empower you to connect with your body and mind on a deeper level.

ENG In this episode, Dr. Luke Sniewski, a Wellbeing Coach and Somatic Therapist with a PhD in Psychology and extensive training in Compassionate Inquiry, psychedelic-assisted therapy, and chronic pain rehabilitation, shares how the body holds the key to true transformation, revealing that healing begins not in the mind but in the physical sensations and emotions we experience. We discover how our thoughts follow bodily sensations, and why understanding this connection is crucial for creating authentic change. Through his unique approach, he explores how stillness helps us become aware of our habitual responses and empowers us to make conscious choices in life's challenging moments. Together, we explore the role of pain and discomfort as powerful catalysts for growth. Dr. Sniewski introduces the practice of conscious discomfort, such as cold exposure, sauna, and yin yoga, showing how these experiences teach resilience and foster healing. By embracing discomfort, we can learn to transform pain into a teacher, guiding us toward inner peace and authentic vitality. Prepare to rethink your approach to well-being and discover how the body's wisdom can lead to lasting change and a deeper sense of peace in everyday life. RO În acest episod, Dr. Luke Sniewski, un Wellbeing Coach și terapeut somatic cu un doctorat în psihologie și o pregătire extinsă în Metoda Compassionate Inquiry, terapie asistată de substanțe psihotrope și reabilitarea durerilor cronice, împărtășește cum corpul deține cheia adevăratei transformări, dezvăluind că vindecarea începe nu în minte, ci în senzațiile fizice și emoțiile pe care le experimentăm. Descoperim cum gândurile noastre urmează senzațiile corporale și de ce înțelegerea acestei conexiuni este crucială pentru a crea schimbări autentice. Prin abordarea sa unică, el explorează cum liniștea ne ajută să devenim conștienți de reacțiile noastre obișnuite și ne împuternicește să facem alegeri conștiente în momentele provocatoare ale vieții. Împreună, explorăm rolul durerii și disconfortului ca și catalizatori puternici pentru creștere. Dr. Sniewski introduce practica disconfortului conștient, cum ar fi expunerea la frig, saună și yoga yin, arătând cum aceste experiențe ne învață reziliența și stimulează vindecarea. Prin acceptarea disconfortului, putem învăța să transformăm durerea într-un învățător, ghidându-ne spre pacea interioară și vitalitatea autentică. Pregătește-te să îți regândești abordarea asupra bunăstării și descoperă cum înțelepciunea corpului poate conduce la schimbări durabile și la un sentiment mai profund de liniște în viața de zi cu zi.

Bananajane talks with Hypnosis artist and Author Shauna Cummins about the art of making your dreams come true. Talking points include: how to befriend and feed the imagination and hope how to strengthen neural pathways and promote neuroplasticity how to generate self compassion how to create a more surrendered approach to manifestation how to respond to lifes "Nos" with bigger "Yesses" how to expand your manifestation process within romantic relationship as well as intimate relationships in general. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast, Heather and Kent McKean dive into the emotional pull of reverting to childhood roles during the holidays. They discuss how sensory triggers like smells, sounds, and traditions can reignite old patterns and share tools to help you break free. From creating holiday manifestos to shifting subconscious programs, they emphasize the importance of self-awareness and intentionality in transforming holiday dynamics. Tune in! Learn how to bring love, rest, and authenticity into your celebrations and foster deeper connections with family. Whether navigating strained relationships or redefining holiday meaning, this episode offers practical insights for growth and healing.

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast, Heather McKean uncovers the emotional roots of TMJ and teeth grinding. These physical issues often reflect unprocessed emotions from feeling silenced or criticized, especially in childhood. Heather explains how environments that demand perfectionism or suppress self-expression can lead to jaw tension and grinding as the body holds onto unresolved emotions. Tune in! Discover how TMJ and bruxism mirror internal conflicts and how releasing these subconscious patterns can provide physical relief. 

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast, Heather and Kent McKean sit down with Diane and Casey Lynch to share a journey of profound transformation. After 30 years of battling mental health challenges, Diane discovered Mind Change and began to address the subconscious beliefs that kept her trapped. Casey's own path with Mind Change soon followed, allowing him to overcome patterns of isolation and hypervigilance. Together, they reveal how this work healed their marriage, reshaped their family dynamic, and set a powerful example for their children. A pivotal part of their story unfolds at a Mind Change wellness retreat in Belize, where uninterrupted time and immersive sessions deepened their healing and reconnected them on a life-changing level. Tune in to explore how Mind Change can transform personal and relational challenges, bringing lasting peace, connection, and resilience.

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast, Heather and Kent McKean tackle the booming wellness retreat industry, breaking down the different types of retreats, from yoga and surf to breathwork and transformational intensives. They also provide valuable insights on how to pick the right retreat for true personal growth. Discover why some retreats are more effective than others, and learn what it takes to experience lasting transformation. If you're ready to move beyond temporary relaxation and want real change, tune in to this enlightening discussion. Plus, hear more about their own transformational retreats in Belize and what makes them truly unique!

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast emotional drivers series, Heather McKean uncovers the hidden emotional causes behind gallbladder pain and gallstones. While many view gallstones as a simple physical issue, Heather explains how unresolved emotions—like anger, resentment, and bitterness—can create internal blockages that manifest as physical symptoms. She delves into how early childhood experiences and family dynamics shape these emotional drivers, which contribute to gallbladder problems later in life. Learn how shifting your deeply held beliefs through Mind Change can transform your physical and emotional well-being. If you're ready to heal your gallbladder pain from the inside out, this episode is a must-listen! Tune in now to discover how Mind Change can help you break free from these subconscious patterns.

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast, host Heather McKean travels to a clinic in Walla Walla, Washington, for an insightful conversation with Nicole Kallstrom, a horse enthusiast and competitive barrel racer, about her powerful journey of healing through Mind Change. Nicole shares how Mind Change helped her recover from Hashimoto's, multiple miscarriages, and long-standing emotional wounds. Not only did Mind Change improve her health, but it also allowed her to reconnect with her horses on a deeper level and pursue her dream of becoming a world champion barrel racer, using these techniques to heal both herself and the animals she loves. This episode offers profound insights into the mind-body connection and the emotional ties between humans and animals. Don't miss this inspiring conversation!In this episode, you will learn:

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast, Heather McKean explores the deep emotional drivers behind Candida overgrowth. More than just a physical condition, Candida is often a reflection of unmet emotional needs from childhood—specifically around nurturing, love, and connection with caregivers. Heather explains how childhood experiences, particularly those involving deprivation or guilt, can manifest in adult behaviors that either suppress or exacerbate these unmet needs, creating the perfect environment for Candida to thrive. From feelings of unworthiness to patterns of self-sacrifice or chronic neediness, this episode reveals how Candida thrives on underlying resentment and negativity. Dive in! Discover how Mind Change can help rewire these subconscious programs, leading to emotional healing and restored physical balance.

It's Mind Change Monday! An overview of what self-brain surgery can do for you, and some tools to help you become healthier, feel better, and be happier in your life. Scripture: Ephesians 4 Are you with us? Send a voicemail and let us know who you are, where you live, what Self-Brain Surgery is doing for you! Follow me @drleewarren on Instagram for daily inspiration.  Five Ways You Can Support this show: Pray for us! Subscribe, like, and share the podcast with your friends! (We even have a YouTube channel!) Leave reviews and comments wherever you listen to podcasts! You can become a paid partner of the podcast and get special bonus episodes and lots more content by clicking here.  Visit one of our affiliate partners and consider using their products (we use them every day): Improve your gut health, immune system, and protect your brain with Pique! If you're a writer, podcaster, or content creator, you should check out Descript! It's the tool I use to produce every episode of this podcast, and their suite of audio, video, and production tools has changed my entire workflow. Descript will cut down your tech time and let you be more creative! Other Helpful Links: Click here to access the Hope Is the First Dose playlist of hopeful, healing songs! Be sure to check out my new book, Hope Is the First Dose! Here's a free 5-day Bible study on YouVersion/BibleApp based on my new book! Sign up for my weekly Self-Brain Surgery Newsletter here!

In this powerful episode of The Mind Change Podcast, Heather McKean welcomes back Cara Ugolini to explore the concept of the mother wound. This deep emotional wound, passed from mother to child, affects both men and women and can manifest as issues with self-worth, boundaries, and relationships. Cara shares insights into how the mother wound is linked to attachment theory and how it can be addressed and healed, even if your mother has passed away or is unable to change. Through personal stories and client experiences, they reveal how healing the mother wound can lead to profound personal transformation and better relationships. Tune in to learn how Mind Change goes beyond traditional inner child work, offering a deeper approach to rewire subconscious beliefs and create lasting change.

It's Mind Change Monday! Today, a quick thought on the difference between viewing the world from the left side of your brain versus the right, and the better path of integrating the two. Leave a voicemail with your question or comment! Five Ways You Can Support this show: Pray for us! Subscribe, like, and share it with your friends! (We even have a YouTube channel!) Leave reviews and comments wherever you listen to podcasts! You can become a paid partner of the podcast and get special bonus episodes and lots more content by clicking here.  Visit one of our affiliate partners and consider using their products (we use them every day): Support and boost your immune system with Armra! Use DRLEEWARREN code at checkout for a discount! Improve your gut health, immune system, and protect your brain with Pique! Other Helpful Links: Click here to access the Hope Is the First Dose playlist of hopeful, healing songs! Be sure to check out my new book, Hope Is the First Dose! Here's a free 5-day Bible study on YouVersion/BibleApp based on my new book! Sign up for my weekly Self-Brain Surgery Newsletter here! All recent episodes with transcripts are available here!

In this episode of The Mind Change Podcast, Heather McKean speaks with Gabby Rodriguez about her journey of healing from chronic anxiety, physical pain, and emotional trauma. Gabby shares how Mind Change helped her transform her life, embrace her true identity, and heal deep-seated wounds from childhood and her cultural upbringing. Through powerful personal insights, Gabby reveals how addressing generational pain and shifting her mindset allowed her to reclaim her health, reconnect with her family, and live a more empowered life. This episode is filled with hope, growth, and inspiration for anyone seeking healing. Tune in! 

It's Mind Change Monday!Today, a talk about whether we're stuck with our feelings, diagnoses, or past traumas, or not. Am I just a skin sack of neurons? Or I am I fearfully and wonderfully made? What if we actually have a tremendous amount of control over these things? The good news is, we do! How we think changes how we live, even if we've been through TBI, TMT, or any other type of problem. No diagnosis is more powerful than the incredible smashing together of your brain, mind, and spirit. Why? Because you have a Great Physician, my friend.Scripture: II Timothy 1:7Book mentioned: Am I Just My Brain? by Sharon DirckxAre you with us? Send a voicemail and let us know who you are, where you live, and that you're All-In!Follow me @drleewarren on Instagram for daily inspiration. Five Ways You Can Support this show:Pray for us!Subscribe, like, and share it with your friends! (We even have a YouTube channel!)Leave reviews and comments wherever you listen to podcasts!You can become a paid partner of the podcast and get special bonus episodes and lots more content by clicking here. Visit one of our affiliate partners and consider using their products (we use them every day):Improve your gut health, immune system, and protect your brain with Pique!Other Helpful Links:Click here to access the Hope Is the First Dose playlist of hopeful, healing songs!Be sure to check out my new book, Hope Is the First Dose!Here's a free 5-day Bible study on YouVersion/BibleApp based on my new book!Sign up for my weekly Self-Brain Surgery Newsletter here!All recent episodes with transcripts are available here! (00:00) - Welcome to September (01:05) - One Decision a Day (03:34) - Podcast Relaunch Plans (05:44) - Special Episode with Max Lucado (07:20) - Live Training Announcement (09:30) - The School of Self-Brain Surgery (09:46) - Exploring Brain and Identity (13:43) - Understanding Trauma and Healing (15:01) - The Next Book on Healing (26:05) - The Myth of Genetic Determinism (30:51) - Am I Just My Brain? (35:45) - The Power of Thought (36:54) - Seeking Professional Help (46:31) - Finding Hope and Change

Allison talks with author and researcher David McRaney about the nature of changing minds and how to get through to someone who seemingly won't bend their beliefs.EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:What happens in our brains when we change our mindHow opposite opinions can connectWhat to do when you want to change someone's mindDifference between attitude, beliefs and valuesPersuasion techniquesImpact of social identities in changing mindsSHOW LINKS:Visit David McRaney's websiteFollow David on Instagram  Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.AllisonHare.comFollow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube.Schedule a FREE breakthrough call with me Want to take these ideas and apply them to your life? Let's do it!DOWNLOAD the free PDF - 40 Simple Ways to Add Energy To Your Day- get a quick burst of energy right now and KEEP IT!GET the Effectiveness Booster - Shift your priorities to what matters most in less than a minute!Reb3l Dance Fitness - Try it at home! Free month with this link.Personal Brand - need help building yours? Schedule a call with me here and let's discuss.Feedback and Contact:: allison@allisonhare.com

“I leaned back in the tub and I think what I said was just, ‘I've never held one of my babies after they were born before.'It was interesting how there was an element that was sort of mundane about it but I liked that. It was just the normalcy of it all that shocked me if that makes sense.” Since her only experiences with her previous births were in a sterile, surgical, hospital environment, the simplicity and freedom of a home birth felt shockingly normal in all the best ways!Jolie shares her first C-section, her planned home birth turned CBAC, followed by a 15-hour home birth at 43 weeks to an almost 11-pound baby with her third. She gives invaluable advice on how to REALLY know if you have the right provider for you and how it may not always be the VBAC-supportive provider everyone recommends. Jolie's Photography and Coaching Contact InfoTransforming BirthNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength. It's Meagan here. We have another VBAC story for you today and we have our friend, Jolie. Hello, Jolie. Jolie: Hey, Meagan. Meagan: How are you today? Jolie: I'm good. How are you? Meagan: I am so great. I am so excited to record your story. There were a whole bunch of little snippets through your story that I'm like, Oh, I want to talk about that. But I wanted to tell everybody that I've been starting to do this. I don't know if you've been noticing but we get a lot of emails of, Hey, where was this person located? What state was that? I'm curious if it was my state so I can try to find that provider. We are going to have her providers and stuff tagged in today's post but you say you are in North Georgia, correct? Jolie: Yes. Meagan: Is that just where your VBAC was or is that where you are residing now? Jolie: Nope, this is where my VBAC was, in North Georgia. Meagan: Okay, so North Georgia people, listen up. This is going to be a great story. I'll tell you guys a little bit more. Okay, so you're a birth worker and a photographer. Are you a doula? Jolie: Yes. Yep. I was trained as a doula in 2020 but I'm exploring different ways to support people in the birth community because, with three young children, I'm just trying to navigate the on-call life and doing things. But yes, I do have experience being a doula. Meagan: Awesome. So cool. Like she said, she has three kiddos. She is a Christian wife to a Biblical counselor. That's awesome. I love how you guys said that you have a vision of a multi-generational team on a mission to God's kingdom. I just love that so much. I am so excited to record your story here in just a few seconds. I do of course have a Review of the Week as always. We always have reviews and just a reminder, if you haven't left a review yet, we would love them. They really do help the show. They help other Women of Strength find these amazing stories and honestly, they just put a ginormous smile on my face. This review says, “Love these ladies and this podcast.” It says, “I love listening to your podcast. I listen almost every day in the car. So often that my oldest son knows you both by name. The stories shared here have inspired me so much. I wish I had all of this information with my first baby. I have had two C-sections. I'm not pregnant at the moment and still have to get my husband on board for a third, but I am so excited to start planning for a VBAC after two C-sections when the time comes. Thank you, Julie and Megan, for creating this amazing VBAC community. I'm so thankful for the education and support.” Okay, seriously, I love that. We keep hearing this. I love that other kids know who we are because they are just so used to listening to the podcast because this is what I love even more than just they know who they are. They are learning. These kids are sponges. We know that. They are always taking stuff in that we are saying and if they're listening to these stories, they are learning. So hopefully if your kiddos are learning and listening, they are going to have a different outcome in their future for their future births if they so choose to because they're going to know, right? They're going to know all of these stories. Anyway, that makes my heart smile. Jolie: That's awesome. Meagan: All right, girl. Are you ready? Let's do this. Jolie: All right. Meagan: All right. Let's turn the time over. Jolie: Okay, so yes. I had a home birth in November, November 5th. That was a home birth after two Cesareans so an HBA2C. I'll just do a small synopsis of the first two births because I feel like that always helps preface the background of where I'm coming from. I think everybody's journey to their VBAC is totally different. Meagan: Yeah, totally different and at the same time, there are so many listening who are like, Oh my gosh, this is just like me. I think sometimes we hold on to those past experiences even if we've processed them. We know that was our past so sometimes we even doubt ourselves because of that so hearing someone's story who is pretty similar to yours and then hearing them go on to have a VBAC is pretty impactful. Jolie: Yeah, absolutely. I can relate to that as well with listening to podcasts and finding those stories of women's journeys to their VBACs. I definitely clung onto the ones I related to. With my first baby, our daughter, she was born in 2019 and I mean, that was like so many, a typical cascade of interventions situation where I was aware of home birth and natural childbirth. I knew that I wanted that, but I also was just young and didn't know and wasn't aware of the resources I had. It's pretty much what I chaulked that up to. I just was getting into birth and eyes wide open and reading what I could but I didn't really know obviously what the future was going to hold for me. I didn't know all what was available to me either. I was seeing a traditional OB group and was planning a hospital birth but wanted just a natural childbirth with no interventions at all. I just wanted in in the hospital. I ended up getting fear-mongered to just put it simply out there. Fearmongered into an induction at 41 weeks and yeah. Quite frankly, it just didn't work. My body was not ready. I was not open at all and I was so determined. I stayed in that hospital working with an induction for a whole week before I had my C-section. I was trying to go slow and steady and I was going a little stir crazy there at the end of that week. I obviously was confused and just downcast and so just sad about what was happening. I was shocked that I was there in that situation. I remember reading Ina May's book and skipping the C-section chapter because I was like, That's not going to be me. Why do I need to read this? Meagan: That's really normal. Even here with the CBAC stories, I think it's really common to be like, I don't want to listen to that CBAC story because that's not going to be me. But at the same time, I think it's good too. Jolie: Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely a balance to that. I found myself at the end of that week pushing 42 and was kind of again just had fear within me and had fear coming from my providers of, “You've been at this for a week. You're not in labor. Your options are to leave or have a C-section.” I was just like, “Leave? I've been here for a week. I'm not going to leave here without a baby.” We opted for the C-section and she was fine. We handled that whole week together perfectly fine. There were no emergencies or hiccups in the road. It was just like, “All right. This is just what we do next,” kind of at this point. She was born at 32 to the day via Cesarean and yeah. That was that. I definitely processed the birth very traumatically because any trauma is how you process what's going on. I know there are births out there that could look like that and people handle it differently. So anyway, for me, I processed it with a sense of trauma. I spent that next year just working through that sorrow and trauma. I started seeing a Biblical counselor which is why I included in my little bio that my husband is one because I saw one and the change that he saw in me is what spurred him on and encouraged him to become one. That was a really cool moment in our family where I was going to this wonderful woman for help and just handling my birth. Anyway, that was really helpful for me in growing and changing the way I was looking at my birth. I was very determined to have a VBAC. My husband I have always said that we want however many children the Lord would give us. I assumed that wouldn't be just one. I wanted another one so I was very determined for a VBAC for my second pregnancy. We conceived my second when my daughter turned one. It was a year later and I was just– the way this pregnancy and birth happened which was a repeat Cesarean, I just put my blinders on and put my head down and was like, I just need to hire a home birth midwife and she's going to give me my VBAC. That was my attitude. Surely if I plan a home birth, I'm not leaving my house. There's no way it will end in a C-section. I was very– I don't know if stubborn was the right word, but there was a sense that I was covering up all that I went through with this first birth to just have the VBAC, have the VBAC. It was almost like that was going to fix the first one. That was how I felt. In hindsight, I see that now. In the moment, I probably did not recognize that that was how I was operating. I hired a home birth midwife who came recommended to me. I knew friends who used her. So then here we are towards the end approaching 41 weeks like the last time and my water broke on 41 weeks. It was the first sign of labor and I had no signs of labor with my first child so that was so exciting. I was kind of scared too. I was surprised. My water broke at 41 and I was talking to my midwife and whatnot. I had some little pitter-patter contractions that night and then nothing the next day. That was on a Sunday. My son ended up being born that Thursday via Cesarean. What happened within that week or a little less than a week was not the funnest of times. I pretty much realized there at the very end when I was needing– you're here at the end and you're like, What's going to happen next? I realized, I hired the wrong midwife, but what do I do now? Meagan: No way. Jolie: Yeah. Like I said, I'm not going to speak ill, but I believe that every care provider is not the right fit for everyone. So just because I heard wonderful reviews, that's not negating the fact that she was wonderful for some people, but looking back, this is pairing it where my head was down and my blinders were on. Now I can see in hindsight the red flags that were coming up. I was like, Oh, she's just tired. Maybe she just got back from a birth and that's why she seems grumpy. She's been doing this for a long time. I was just giving reasons to why she was the way she was. It was nothing more than that we just didn't click well. After my water broke, she took on this fearful attitude. She was very concerned and just didn't know what to do. She really fed into fears that I had and new ones in my head. I was just like, This is not helping. What's going on? All that to say, I think she wanted me to have a biophysical profile done since my water had broken and I was 41 and labor hadn't begun. Obviously, the profile came back that there was low fluid which I knew because my water had broken but there was nothing else concerning with my son. But because of that report, she transferred me to the hospital. She transferred care and she called my husband after the report came back to her and said, “Y'all need to go to the hospital. I'm not going to be able to support you. Just go.” That moment from the report to the hospital was scary for me but on the way there, I had this peace come over me because I was going back to the hospital that my daughter was born at and before this birth, I was very much even just seeing the hospital– I would just not look at it by the side of the road. I had all of this emotion attached to this place. I knew a few people who worked there in the labor and delivery ward. I had their numbers so I messaged them. I was like, “Is there any chance y'all are here?” Long story short, I'm coming. I don't want to be here, but I'm coming. They were. I had a friend come and she prayed with me and I had seen another nurse there who was there when I had my daughter and she remembered me. It was just this very healing moment in the sense of I was respected. People totally were not judging me for coming in as a home birth transfer. I was worried about that that I would get a side-eye or judgment because I was a home birth mom. I was actually going to the hospital and I didn't have a provider there. But no, they were all so very much like, “We are so sorry that you are here because we know that you don't want to be here but we are taking care of you. We understand that this is hard for you to process everything that's going on right now.” That was healing in itself. That healed my emotional attachments to the hospital that were negative. He was fine. They monitored him for a few minutes when we got there. He was fine, but they also– I did tell my husband when we were on the way, “I just know that it's going to be another C-section because I don't even have a doctor here. My water's broken. I'm already a VBAC.” I kind of had accepted that outcome before even getting there and decided to opt for it again. The doctor there was also very respectful with all of that just like the nurses were. He was born at 41 and 5. He was fine even though the water had been broken for some time. So that was that. In processing that birth, it was a little bit different than my first. I definitely felt like I was at a fork in the road though because here I am. I've just had two. I was technically a home birth transfer. I was determined to get this VBAC. What in the world happened that time? I just realized that I had taken any sort of trust and responsibility in the medical community or within myself and just put it in the hands of this midwife and put her up on this pedestal of, You're going to give me the birth that I want. I misplaced that into the whole home birth community. I was like, I can't do that again. But then that is some deep internal work then. If I am realizing that I am making all of these other people responsible for my birth and my outcome and it's not working out great, I need to figure out what the root of this is and really work on it. That began the year journey of just doing some more internal work and more counseling and therapy and stuff like that. I remember it might have been this podcast episode that I listened to or it could have been another birth podcast. It was honestly a lightbulb going off. I didn't realize I could do this. I can't remember. I think it was your podcast but one of y'all said, “I interviewed seven providers before I became pregnant again to pick one out.” Meagan: Yeah. I actually interviewed 12. Jolie: Yes, okay. I wrote that down. I heard that and I was like, Wait a minute. How am I going to do that if I'm pregnant and scrambling to find the perfect provider? I heard you say that and it was almost like, Whoa. I didn't realize I could interview people when I'm not pregnant, but why couldn't I? So that helped me. Meagan: It sounds weird. Why would you go talk to a doctor if you're not pregnant? Jolie: Yeah, but that gave me so much peace and confidence. It was a clear path of, Oh. I'm not pregnant. I've got time. I started. I didn't want to figure this all out until my son turned 1 so I was just like, You need to take a breath. Everybody talks about your next baby right after you had one and I'm always like, Can you just slow down? I just had a baby and I'm going to enjoy this time. So I waited a year not to get pregnant the third time but a year to go after my provider, find my plan, and really do the deep work again. So I did. I started interviewing all of these people. I found my midwife a little over a year before I conceived my third baby. I found her early when I wasn't pregnant. It was just such a God-ordained, perfect experience where my husband and I went and had a conversation with her. She just aligned with us on a biological level, on a spiritual level. That was something I didn't realize how important it was going to be to me to find a fellow Christian who really walked out their life with the Lord and she did. I developed a close friendship with her actually even before I was pregnant. Being in the birth world, I would work with her. I had attended some births with her before I became pregnant so I really just saw her live it out and I knew she was amazing. What's so funny, just the way the mind and body and spirit are connected was when I first met her and did the interview with my husband, I hadn't started my cycle back. I was telling her, “I'm just looking. I need a VBAC. I want a VBAC. I'm not pregnant yet, but I haven't started my cycle either so I have no idea when.” The very next day, I got my period. For me, I felt like it was my body coming into alignment with the fact that I just found somebody who was going to be amazing for my birth. Meagan: You're ready. Jolie: I emailed her, “This is so weird but I literally just started my cycle.” Anyway, that was just a really cool moment for me to recognize that connection.That was when I found my midwife and that was such a key part to my VBAC. Then it was about a year later when I got pregnant with my third. I hired her and we were just so excited. Okay, so one of my big things with interviewing people for my third was, “Okay, I have had two pregnancies and two Cesareans. Historically, I have gone postdates with both of them. I need to know what your deal is with due dates and the whole ‘let me' language and all of that.” I was trying to figure out what I aligned with in that regard and what they would support me with. So here I am approaching 42 weeks. She was very much like, “Whatever. We'll check on you more when you're past your due date if you want and we'll obviously take care of you but I have no cutoff or whatever.” Yeah. So I was 42 weeks and I started losing a little bit of my mucus plug. That was exciting but then another pretty much week went by and here I am a couple days before 43 and I have two nights of prodromal labor where the contractions would wake me up in the night but then I'd go back to sleep. That was the first night on a Thursday night I would have those contractions. Friday rolls around. I am so pregnant and so tired. It was definitely emotionally very challenging that last month. But Friday night comes around. They pick up again and that night, I really couldn't sleep so I would be on the birth ball. I would get in the bathtub and yeah. I knew I was going to need some support on Saturday because of my other children so it did fizzle out Saturday morning, but I had a friend come and play with my kids. We just all hung out together on Saturday. I did have some contractions that were strong every 30 minutes to an hour during the day on Saturday. I was pretty much– that Saturday I was 43 weeks I think. Either Saturday or Friday I was 43 weeks. That evening it started picking up a little bit more and my birth team, so my midwife and her assistant who was going to come to the birth and my husband. They came over around 10:30 Saturday morning and then 30 minutes later– so they got to my house at 10:30-11:00 PM. My kids were asleep so that was fine. I wasn't really sure if I was going to have them around or not. I was going to play it by ear because I wasn't sure what kind of support I'd need from my husband and how they were going to handle it. Through the night they slept which was great and I was laboring that Saturday night. My water broke at 11:00 PM Saturday night 30 minutes after my birth team got there and that was something that I was having to really work with in my mind because of the second birth having my water break as the first sign of labor and then not have the baby for several days. I was really wanting to not have my water break early. Meagan: Yeah. Jolie: But my water breaking actually when it broke at 11:00, I was in labor before then. That was a different situation and I just had this wave of peace come over me again because I knew I was finally in labor and my birth team was going to stay. It wasn't going to be, “Oh, nevermind. We're going to go home now.” They were here and the water was clear. I had no worries. I was actually really excited after my water broke because I thought I wasn't going to be because of my second birth but I was so thankful. Pretty much from there on, it started picking up pretty intensely. The nighttime was a blur. I just did squats and walked around and swayed and just clung to door frames I feel like. I was just sort of, yeah. I definitely struggled with holding tension in my body in the contractions. I did labor pretty much all night on Saturday and then later in the night maybe around 4:00 or 5:00 AM, I finally found a great place to relax and just a position. It was actually just laying in the bed reclined is what did it for me. I was able to melt into the contractions and I could tell that I was opening and progressing. I just slept around 4:00 or 5:00 until 7:00 AM so early into Sunday morning now. I was definitely still laboring intensely but I was sleeping. To somebody on the outside, you would just think, Oh, she's just taking a nap. I was in transition actually. I did not think I would want a cervical exam because of my previous two births– never dilating, all of that. I had to move past that whole belief that my body was not going to open and things like that so I wasn't sure how I was going to do with exams and stuff. But at that time, being a doula and hearing so many birth stories, I was already pregnant for so long, I was just like, I need to know if I have a whole other day of this. I don't want to hear a number but I want her to check me and at least tell me if my energy needs to be hunkered down, conserved, you're not that far, or is it okay, let's pick it up. You're almost there? I did want her to check me but I didn't want to hear a number. I just wanted her to give me a general frame of, “Here's where you need to be in your headspace with this information I've just received.” It was 7:00 AM maybe. She checked me. She was like, “Are you sure you don't want to hear a number?” I could just tell the way she asked that question. I was like, Okay, she knows I'm going to like the number I'm going to hear. I was like, “Okay, go ahead and tell me.” She was like, “You're an 8 and I can stretch you completely open very easily.” I was like, “What? Oh wow, this is amazing. Okay.” She was like, “I think all it's going to take is some different positions. We're going to do a circuit to get the baby's head lined up just a little bit more straight and that will open you up all the way if we just move the baby just a little bit.” I was like, “Okay, let's do it.” I did two circuits of excruciating positions. Side-lying was not the most fun thing I've ever done but I was very much just like, “Tell me what to do and I'll do it.” We did side-lying, knees to chest, and dip the hip where I was standing and I would swap and turn. I don't know how to explain the sensation, but it was probably just the baby moving through my pelvis. It was pretty intense. I did two circuits of that and I was just like, “I need to feel some comfort again and not do this circuit again.” So I was like, “I think I want to get in the birth pool.” I had the birth pool set up. I had tried to get in earlier in labor but got right back out. It was just not for me. I was like, “Maybe I'll try the birth pool.” I stepped in and was like, “Nope. I don't want to do that.” The second time now, this was around 11:30 AM. I was like, “I think I want to get in the pool.” I got in and I was like, “I'm not 100% sure but I kind of think I feel pushy.” It was just one of those things that in a lot of ways I felt like a first-time mom having this labor where I never had a pushing phase with the others. I was just sort of doubting myself a little bit, but the assistant was like, “Well, we can't tell you if you feel pushy.” I was like, “Okay. I know. I know.” Meagan: We can't tell you. Jolie: Yeah. Meagan: That's hilarious. Jolie: I was like, “Okay. Well, I'll just be in this for a few more contractions and see if whatever sensation I'm feeling stays or gets stronger. I think I'll be confident when I am ready to push or if it changes and whatever.” I just was trying to figure out again where I needed to be. So I did feel that pushing sensation and started to in the water. That was definitely such a switch in the way I was experiencing the sensations of labor because the contractions were painful to me, but when I started pushing, it was like relief and very relieving. I felt like, Oh, I'm doing something. This is different. I'm not just getting through this. I'm moving through it in a way where I have this sort of control over it. I really enjoyed pushing and I was in the tub and again, reclining on my back. I never thought I would be in this position for birth because it's usually the hospital stereotype of on your back on the bed but that's where I felt relief and got through transition on my bed so in the birth pool, that's actually how I pushed was kind of reclined back. I was just able to do it better that way. I had 5 minutes between each contraction so that was really nice because I ended up pushing for about 2 hours. That's kind of a long time. I think from start to finish my labor was 15 hours so it was those last 2. I never felt exhausted as in, I can't do this, but I do remember I wasn't really aware of the time. I knew it was Sunday afternoon. I got in the pool at 11:30 and my son was born at 2:05. I was pushing but I had those 5 minutes of breaks so I was able to doze off and float in the water. I genuinely enjoyed those 2 hours. It was just peaceful but I felt myself getting sort of impatient because I didn't know what time it was, but I was just like, Okay. The water is kind of cool. I know I've been in here for a while so I don't know. I really wish this was over now. So finally, there was a candid moment where I saw my midwife getting baby stuff together and I was just like, “Oh, what are you doing?” She was like, “You're pushing. I'm getting the baby stuff out. You're doing this. It's actually happening.” I was just like, “Oh wow. Okay. I guess so.” It was so funny. I don't know. I think there is just this part of where I was just so zoned into what I was doing and what I was feeling that I wasn't really processing it, Oh, this is happening. This is happening. As she told me, I could feel my baby's head and that was mind-blowing. Once I could reach out and feel his head, which we didn't know at the time it was a boy. We were waiting to find out. That definitely brought me into a sense of reality when I could feel the baby's head. It was just like, Whoa, okay. This is happening. There was a slight burn when his head crowned, but there was so much adrenaline when his body was coming out that I don't even really recall that being painful just kind of a burning sensation. His head crowned. I changed positions after his head was born. I was still in the water, but I sort of think I was on my back. I moved up a little bit onto my hands and knees and stayed in the water. My midwife ended up guiding his head and shoulders down and then his body came out. She handed him to me and I just remember knowing it was a boy even though I hadn't seen yet. I leaned back in the tub and I think what I said was just, “I've never held one of my babies after they were born before.” That feeling of an immediate, My baby came out and they are in my arms. That was just so surreal but at the same time it was almost so seamless and intuitive that I was just like, Okay. I just gave birth and it's just a normal day. Everybody around me– I think I had thought built it up in my mind to be this incredible experience which it was. I don't want to say, It wasn't all that, but in a way, birth is so natural and normal that after it happened, it was just like, I'm in my bed and the birds are chirping outside and the day is going on, where before I was in the hospital and it felt like this whole different world. It was interesting how there was an element that was sort of mundane about it but I like that. I don't know. It was just the normalcy of it all that shocked me if that makes sense. Meagan: Yeah. No, I really actually can totally relate. I remember after I had my VBAC after two C-section baby, I was at a birth center. I was in the bathroom on the floor when I gave birth and they were like, “All right, let's get you up and move you to the room.” I was like, “Okay.” I just remember going in there and laying down and starting to feed my baby and just looking around almost like, Did that really just happen? But at the same time, it was like, Yeah, it just happened and now I'm just feeding my baby. Jolie: Yeah, that was it. Meagan: It was so weird. It was so weird. There was a slight disconnect in my brain that what had just transpired transpired. Jolie: Yes. Meagan: So yeah. I really can relate to that so much. Then about how you were saying, “I was pushing for a really long time and I just looked over and realized my midwife was putting the baby stuff together and getting stuff ready,” and you were like, “Oh, yeah. Yeah.” I had that moment too where I was just laboring on the toilet and then all of a sudden, my midwife was just coming in here guiding me to the stool and I was like, Wait, what? She was like, “Let's come have a baby.” I'm like, “What, really?” I couldn't believe that what was happening was happening but I was so zoned into doing this birth, having this VBAC, and then all of a sudden, I realized I was doing that. I was actually doing that. Jolie: Yeah. I think when you have C-sections and when you have any sort of difficulties in your births, your mind clings onto those phrases that people say like, “Oh, your baby is too big. You're not going to open.” Meagan: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Jolie: It makes you feel like this miraculous thing must happen for me to give birth because it didn't work the other times so how in the world? Trumpets need to be blaring and some crazy thing has to happen for this to work but it doesn't and it was just like, Oh. That was it. Meagan: This is normal. Jolie: Yeah, the thing that didn't feel normal was actually the surgical births but the thing that felt normal was the VBAC so it was very interesting but after he came out, they were like, “That's a big baby.” He pooped twice before we got out of the tub like pretty big poops so then by the time my midwife weighed him, she knew that he had already pooped, but I think he weighed 10, 14 so she was like, “He totally was 11 pounds coming out. If I weighed him before he took those ginormous poops.” That was shocking and not expected at all. Meagan: Yeah girl! Jolie: That was really cool that it was not even a part of it because I didn't get any late-term ultrasounds. Looking back, people definitely kept asking me if I was having twins. They were like, “Wow. You look really big.” I just was like, “Ha, ha. I get it. I'm pregnant.” You know the things people say. I'm like, Maybe I actually did look larger than normal because this child could pass for two babies as twins. Yeah. He was almost 11 pounds. I did have one tear that I chose for her to not suture, but that was it. That was the birth. Meagan: Wow, and a surprise big baby. Think about how there are a lot of times in the provider's world of the hospital where they see someone who is a larger baby and they are wanting to do those third-trimester ultrasounds and growth scans and they are like, “What?” When really you didn't need any of those things, you just needed time. And a 43-week baby. I had one of my beginning doula clients and she was 43 weeks and 1 day as well. I mean, it was a 10-pound baby as well. It was 10,12 I think. That girl just powerhoused that baby out but she was getting pressure to get induced at 39 weeks. She was feeling all of that pressure. “Oh, your baby is looking big. You look so big. You are small. I don't know if this is going to be possible.” Then she switched at I think 41 weeks then she went to 43 and 1 and just had a beautiful, vaginal birth. I love that. Okay, so there are so many things. Something that I caught in your story was with your second midwife or with your second provider with your second baby. Everyone said, “This midwife, this midwife,” so you went with this midwife then you realized it wasn't the midwife for me. I think that is something that is important to note especially when we have our supportive provider list, right? We have this list and we're providing these names where people will rant and rave for days and days and days about some of these providers so you're like, Yeah, great. The whole community is going to this provider or whatever. Then you're in that situation and you just take that word for it, but then you get into that situation of birthing and you're realizing, Oh crap. This isn't right. There were red flags and I didn't recognize them because I was just going off of what everybody else said. I just think it's important to note that even though everybody or people might say this provider is the only provider or the best provider that it doesn't mean they are the best provider for you. It really comes back down to what that provider is looking like for you in your mind. Close your eyes. Envision your birth. Think about what they are saying, what they are doing, how they are caring for you. Think about the questions you want to ask them and go and really ask these people these questions that are really something for you. I love that you talked about that with your third midwife how you were like, “These are the qualities I was looking for.” It took you a while to find it but you found it. I love also that you pointed that out. Really you guys, I can't say it enough. Finding a provider when you are not pregnant is night and day from finding a provider when you are. Jolie: Yeah. There was no pressure. I felt like I could be so much more confident in saying no because I didn't feel like I had to say yes. Meagan: Yeah and honestly, our minds are in a different space. Even Dr. Fox a few episodes back talked about that how that is a really great thing to do because we are emotional. We feel pressure. There's time. Our baby is growing and each week matters to find that provider. It's a very different thing. It's a very different thing. Okay and then in your form, we talked about this a little bit before but you talked about radical responsibility and the word radical just stands out to me now because of our radical acceptance episodes that Julie and I have done. We've done two of them so if you guys haven't listened to those, go back and listen. There is a part one and a part two. How would you describe radical responsibility or finding radical responsibility to our audience? Jolie: Yeah. I think that it comes with a lot of coming face-to-face with some core beliefs because for me, when I was realizing was that we all day, “You are the one that cares the most about your baby and your body.” Okay. I think most people can agree that's true. But then how do you actually walk that out when you are pregnant? Because what can happen is you can be subconsciously deciding that this person over here is going to make sure I'm safe, is going to make sure my baby is safe, and is going to do all of these things for me when in reality, I believe that nobody outside of you can guarantee that safety. As a Christian, I believe that I don't even hold the keys to life and death. If that's what we're going to talk about, at the core of all of this stuff, people when they are pregnant, you want your baby after you are born and that's a thing. So that's kind of your basic line. I had to come to grips with even just the reality at its deepest core of, Okay. So if I'm pregnant and I have this baby growing inside of me and I want to birth this way for these reasons, I need to own this. If my midwife recommends I eat this way or do it. She's not going to come over and feed me. She's not going to text me everyday and ask if I took my supplements or went on a walk.That's goes into something else I'd like to mention if we have time of just handling all the things in birth. But with the responsibility aspect, it's hard to pin down but I think that it just boils down to realizing where you have control and where you don't have control and are you giving any control to someone else or are they just there to support you? There was an element where I was at where I wasn't wanting to do a free birth. I know there are very strong opinions for that or with unassisted– different terms and all of these things– but I did glean a lot from books I was reading about unassisted birth because I wanted to feel like I could make decisions with my midwife's support and not the other way around. It wasn't her making the decision and making sure I was on board with it. It was more like, This is what I want to do and I'm going to work with you because I did hire you and I actually hired you more for the essence of womanly support. Midwife means “with women” so I wanted this relationship. The relationship I cultivated with midwife was more of a sisterhood/friendship where I was like, “I need you in my birth. I hired you because I know you have incredible skills and I know that you can use these skills if something arises where I need to do something different in my birth, but more than that, I know that you know that you're not responsible for certain things and I'm not responsible for certain things but we are working together and you are there for me on an emotional level.” That was more important to me. Meagan: I love that. Jolie: Not everybody is going to be there for our births but I think if you're listening and that resonates with you like, I've taken some power and put it in other people or I'm holding my provider responsible for x, y, z at the end of the day, I would just work through that and base those thoughts and beliefs and see if you think there needs to be a change in your perception on responsibility and what we control or don't control. We have to surrender which is incredibly difficult. Meagan: Yes. It is but I love that you are talking about that. We have to walk in. We have to own it but we also have to work together. I like that you said, “I don't want her to have to convince me of this. I want to know what I'm talking about and work with her with this situation.” A lot of the time we have to do that with providers where we need to come in and work together and not be patient versus provider. It just needs to be a collaboration but at the same time, we have to take ownership into everything that we can. Okay, so we were talking about this and you mentioned that you wanted to talk about all the things. We talked about getting enough food, making sure we get the right supplements which we know here at The VBAC Link, I'm very passionate about getting the right supplements and then finding the right provider and figuring out what to do with the kids. There are so many things. Jolie: There are so many things. Yeah, I can talk about that for a minute because I think there are so many things that you can obsess over or shut down over. So one of the things that this goes into my tips of if you are going for a VBAC, here are some tips. A holistic approach– when I say holistic, I mean body, mind, and spirit. There are a lot of things we can do for our bodies when we are pregnant– the nutrition, the walks, the exercises, the Spinning Babies gymnastics. There are all of these body-focused things but you also need to be working on your mind and how you are doing in your mind which was huge for me. I found a birth course and worked with this incredible group of people. They are called Mind Change, but her birth course I think I sent you is called Transforming Birth. It's all about subconscious stuff and rewiring your brain to have different pathways for your birth. Anyway, that's my plug for that. But going into it, prepare your mind for birth. Actually think about what you do want and not what you don't want. Think about what you don't want. Have a plan. You need to have a plan for your provider. Of course, that's responsible. But put that away and spend the real-time immersing yourself in what you want it to look like. And then just your spirit. You could make a whole list of all the things you need to do, but the key is in how you approach it because I remember in one of my previous births, one of them that was a C-section, somebody had said one time– it might have just been on social media, “Oh, I went to the chiropractor every week for my birth and I got this wonderful, fast labor and I know it is because of the chiropractor.” I thought to myself, I went to the chiropractor every week. Why didn't I have a vaginal birth? It's not in the things. That's my main point which is so simple. You might hear that and be like, Duh. But it's in how you approach them. Going to the chiropractor regularly is great for your health but if you are doing it from a place of stress and control like, If I miss an appointment or if I don't hit 3 miles today, then actually, that's not helping you anymore and you should probably not do that and not go on that walk if you are feeling stressed out about having to go on the walk. Don't do it. Approach it from a place of peace and joy and acceptance going back to your radial acceptance. All of the things that can help you in your pregnancy are wonderful, but take them one at a time and make sure that when you're going on your walk, when you have your supplements, you're taking them from a place of peace and acceptance and then it can be helpful for you. One of the– I'll just share one small example of how I did this with my third pregnancy that I didn't really have this frame of mind with my previous two. There was a certain supplement. I can't remember what it was called. It was a combination of herbs that helped ripen your cervix. A lot of people recommend it for VBACs at the end. Meagan: Like Birth Prep? Jolie: It wasn't Birth Prep. It was 5 weeks or something. It had something to do with 5 or 7. There was a number in it and it's like a holistic supplement that has supportive herbs in it for ripening your cervix so I remember coming across this information while I was pregnant and just thinking, Okay. I looked it up. It was all sold out on line and I was like, I feel like in my mind I'm thinking I have to do this to get the VBAC. This is going to help me. If I don't get it, then what's going to happen?  I ended up talking to my midwife about it and she actually had some. She was like, “Oh yeah, I do love this supplement. I have some and they are all sold out right now.” I was like, “I'll take it. I'm going to let you know if I'm going to start taking it. Please ask me if I'm taking it out of a stressful, controlling way or if I'm taking it from a place of peace because depending on the way I answer, I need accountability to not actually do it,” because I wanted to be able to receive it in a way of support in general. That's what she told me. “It's not going to hurt you. They are wonderful herbs that will just strengthen and tone your uterus so you can take it,” but I knew I needed to be in a frame of mind where it wasn't like, this is going to be the thing. This is just a small example of how I embodied that reality of if this is going to stress me out, even if it's a good thing, I'm not going to do it. Meagan: Yeah, okay. I love that so much within our own community and other communities where it's like, You guys, I have 5 days to get this baby out or they're going to make me have a C-section, so then we have this stressful overreaction to do anything we can to get that baby out and actually what it's doing is creating more stress in our body which is not going to help our cervix. I love that message. I do not know what you're talking about exactly like what they used. Herbs are great, but I love that. Do things with intent and purpose. Don't do things out of fear or out of worry or out of pressure. Do things because you think they are right and because you think this is what you need to be doing, not because you're stressed about something. I'm just going to leave that right there because I love that message so much. Thank you so much again for sharing your stories and congrats on your HBAC after two C-sections. Jolie: Thank you, yeah. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands