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JAWS and ZoomText pricing in the UK is changing, and users are confused. Steven Scott and Shaun Preece bring in Stuart Lawler from Sight & Sound Technology to break down the new subscription model, explain Software Maintenance Agreements (SMAs), and clarify what the changes mean for long-time users. Plus, a hands-on look at the Keychron Q6 Max mechanical keyboard, updates on Aira desktop support, and a listener email about life with prosthetic eyes.This episode tackles one of the biggest questions in UK accessibility tech right now: what's happening with JAWS and ZoomText pricing? Steven and Shaun are joined by Stuart Lawler from Sight & Sound Technology to cut through the confusion. Stuart explains why Vispero has moved to a subscription model, what the pricing tiers look like, and how current users can still benefit from SMAs before the October deadline.Alongside the pricing discussion, Steven shares his experience with the hefty Keychron Q6 Max mechanical keyboard, exploring both its impressive build and the accessibility challenges of customizing it. The hosts also highlight how services like Aira desktop support and Be My Eyes can help blind users navigate inaccessible software.Listener feedback adds humor and insight, with one email describing the quirks of prosthetic eyes, while Shaun shares breaking news about Meta's new detailed description feature for Ray-Ban smart glasses in the UK. The conversation rounds off with speculation about Google's upcoming hardware event and the future of smart glasses.Chapters0:00 – JAWS & ZoomText UK pricing confusion4:52 – Steven's new Keychron Q6 Max keyboard review21:45 – Using Aira desktop for accessibility support31:12 – Meta AI's new detailed description option for Ray-Bans36:40 – Listener email: fun with prosthetic eyes48:25 – JAWS subscription vs SMA explained with Stuart Lawler1:20:10 – Google Pixel event speculation and smart glassesRelevant LinksSight & Sound Technology: https://www.sightandsound.co.ukVispero (JAWS, ZoomText, Fusion): https://www.freedomscientific.comAira Desktop Access: https://aira.io/desktopBe My Eyes: https://www.bemyeyes.comKeychron Q6 Max: https://www.keychron.com Find Double Tap online: YouTube, Double Tap Website---Follow on:YouTube: https://www.doubletaponair.com/youtubeX (formerly Twitter): https://www.doubletaponair.com/xInstagram: https://www.doubletaponair.com/instagramTikTok: https://www.doubletaponair.com/tiktokThreads: https://www.doubletaponair.com/threadsFacebook: https://www.doubletaponair.com/facebookLinkedIn: https://www.doubletaponair.com/linkedin Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://www.doubletaponair.com/appleSpotify: https://www.doubletaponair.com/spotifyRSS: https://www.doubletaponair.com/podcastiHeadRadio: https://www.doubletaponair.com/iheart About Double TapHosted by the insightful duo, Steven Scott and Shaun Preece, Double Tap is a treasure trove of information for anyone who's blind or partially sighted and has a passion for tech. Steven and Shaun not only demystify tech, but they also regularly feature interviews and welcome guests from the community, fostering an interactive and engaging environment. Tune in every day of the week, and you'll discover how technology can seamlessly integrate into your life, enhancing daily tasks and experiences, even if your sight is limited. "Double Tap" is a registered trademark of Double Tap Productions Inc.
Steven Scott and Shaun Preece tackle a busy Double Tap episode covering studio overhauls, accessible Windows backup tools, the surprising survival of dial-up internet, Zoom's spatial audio update, and the UK backlash over JAWS screen reader pricing changes.In this candid conversation, Steven shares his once-a-year minimalist studio refresh and Shaun details his Windows PC reset woes—highlighting the need for accessible system imaging tools. They discuss the enduring pockets of AOL dial-up users, why rural connectivity still matters, and the limitations of outdated copper networks. The hosts also explore Zoom's new spatial audio feature, its potential impact on fatigue, and whether it truly benefits accessibility.The core of the episode focuses on confusion and frustration over JAWS' new UK pricing model from Vispero and Sight & Sound Technology. Steven and Shaun break down the differences between US and UK licenses, the missing affordable “Home Annual License” option in the UK, and why home users may be pushed toward NVDA or other alternatives. They debate fairness, accessibility affordability, and possible solutions, with hopes for clearer communication and fairer pricing ahead.Chapters00:00 - Start00:23 - Steven changes his office…. again!04:31 - Shaun decides to reset his PC10:29 - AOL set to shut down its dialup service18:12 - Zoom is adding spatial audio to its meetings20:28 - Sight and Sound Technology announces new pricing for JAWS and Zoomtext in UK to much controversy29:29 - Get in touch with Double Tap Find Double Tap online: YouTube, Double Tap Website---Follow on:YouTube: https://www.doubletaponair.com/youtubeX (formerly Twitter): https://www.doubletaponair.com/xInstagram: https://www.doubletaponair.com/instagramTikTok: https://www.doubletaponair.com/tiktokThreads: https://www.doubletaponair.com/threadsFacebook: https://www.doubletaponair.com/facebookLinkedIn: https://www.doubletaponair.com/linkedin Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://www.doubletaponair.com/appleSpotify: https://www.doubletaponair.com/spotifyRSS: https://www.doubletaponair.com/podcastiHeadRadio: https://www.doubletaponair.com/iheart About Double TapHosted by the insightful duo, Steven Scott and Shaun Preece, Double Tap is a treasure trove of information for anyone who's blind or partially sighted and has a passion for tech. Steven and Shaun not only demystify tech, but they also regularly feature interviews and welcome guests from the community, fostering an interactive and engaging environment. Tune in every day of the week, and you'll discover how technology can seamlessly integrate into your life, enhancing daily tasks and experiences, even if your sight is limited. "Double Tap" is a registered trademark of Double Tap Productions Inc.
· Why do blind people in the US attend annual conventions? · How can AI make web browsing more enjoyable? · What does it take to succeed in today's world? · What new learning opportunities are being offered by Vispero? The convention vibe continues on this special episode, as we hear from Ryan Jones, Glen Gordon, Mohammed Laachir, and Elizabeth Whitaker.
The 35th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) was July 26, so today's episode is a special one. Most companies obsess over SEO, performance, and conversion rates—but overlook 25% of their audience entirely. Why do so many businesses miss the opportunity to serve users with disabilities, and what are they leaving on the table? Today I'm joined by Michael Paciello, Chief Accessibility Officer at AudioEye. Michael is a pioneer in digital accessibility and a longtime advocate for creating inclusive online experiences. While many business professionals focus on growth and efficiency, Michael makes a compelling case that accessibility is not just about compliance—it's a powerful business opportunity. He's here to help us understand how accessibility can improve everything from reach to reputation to revenue. About Mike Paciello Mike Paciello is the Chief Accessibility Officer at AudioEye, Inc., a digital accessibility company. Prior to joining AudioEye, Mike founded WebABLE/WebABLE.TV, which delivers news about the disability and accessibility technology market. Mike authored the first book on web accessibility and usability, “Web Accessibility for People with Disabilities” and, in 1997, Mr. Paciello received recognition from President Bill Clinton for his work in the creation of World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI). He has served as an advisor to the US Access Board and other federal agencies since 1992. Mike has served as an international leader, technologist, and authority in emerging technology, accessibility, usability, and electronic publishing. Mike is the former Founder of The Paciello Group (TPG), a world-renowned software accessibility consultancy acquired in 2017 by Vispero. Mike Paciello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-paciello-88a7a0306/ Resources Audioeye: https://www.audioeye.com https://www.audioeye.com The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Boston, August 11-14, 2025. Register now: https://bit.ly/etailboston and use code PARTNER20 for 20% off for retailers and brandsOnline Scrum Master Summit is happening June 17-19. This 3-day virtual event is open for registration. Visit www.osms25.com and get a 25% discount off Premium All-Access Passes with the code osms25agilebrandDon't Miss MAICON 2025, October 14-16 in Cleveland - the event bringing together the brights minds and leading voices in AI. Use Code AGILE150 for $150 off registration. Go here to register: https://bit.ly/agile150 Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstromDon't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.showCheck out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company
The 35th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) was July 26, so today's episode is a special one. Most companies obsess over SEO, performance, and conversion rates—but overlook 25% of their audience entirely. Why do so many businesses miss the opportunity to serve users with disabilities, and what are they leaving on the table? Today I'm joined by Michael Paciello, Chief Accessibility Officer at AudioEye. Michael is a pioneer in digital accessibility and a longtime advocate for creating inclusive online experiences. While many business professionals focus on growth and efficiency, Michael makes a compelling case that accessibility is not just about compliance—it's a powerful business opportunity. He's here to help us understand how accessibility can improve everything from reach to reputation to revenue. About Mike Paciello Mike Paciello is the Chief Accessibility Officer at AudioEye, Inc., a digital accessibility company. Prior to joining AudioEye, Mike founded WebABLE/WebABLE.TV, which delivers news about the disability and accessibility technology market. Mike authored the first book on web accessibility and usability, “Web Accessibility for People with Disabilities” and, in 1997, Mr. Paciello received recognition from President Bill Clinton for his work in the creation of World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI). He has served as an advisor to the US Access Board and other federal agencies since 1992. Mike has served as an international leader, technologist, and authority in emerging technology, accessibility, usability, and electronic publishing. Mike is the former Founder of The Paciello Group (TPG), a world-renowned software accessibility consultancy acquired in 2017 by Vispero. Mike Paciello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-paciello-88a7a0306/ Resources Audioeye: https://www.audioeye.com https://www.audioeye.com The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Boston, August 11-14, 2025. Register now: https://bit.ly/etailboston and use code PARTNER20 for 20% off for retailers and brandsOnline Scrum Master Summit is happening June 17-19. This 3-day virtual event is open for registration. Visit www.osms25.com and get a 25% discount off Premium All-Access Passes with the code osms25agilebrandDon't Miss MAICON 2025, October 14-16 in Cleveland - the event bringing together the brights minds and leading voices in AI. Use Code AGILE150 for $150 off registration. Go here to register: https://bit.ly/agile150 Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstromDon't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.showCheck out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company
In January, 2022 today's guest, Mike Paciello, made his first appearance on Unstoppable Mindset in Episode 19. It is not often that most of us have the opportunity and honor to meet a real trendsetter and pioneer much less for a second time. However, today, we get to spend more time with Mike, and we get to talk about not only the concepts around web accessibility, but we also discuss the whole concept of inclusion and how much progress we have made much less how much more work needs to be done. Mike Paciello has been a fixture in the assistive technology world for some thirty years. I have known of him for most of that time, but our paths never crossed until September of 2021 when we worked together to help create some meetings and sessions around the topic of website accessibility in Washington D.C. As you will hear, Mike began his career as a technical writer for Digital Equipment Corporation, an early leader in the computer manufacturing industry. I won't tell you Mike's story here. What I will say is that although Mike is fully sighted and thus does not use much of the technology blind and low vision persons use, he really gets it. He fully understands what Inclusion is all about and he has worked and continues to work to promote inclusion and access for all throughout the world. As Mike and I discuss, making technology more inclusive will not only help persons with disabilities be more involved in society, but people will discover that much of the technology we use can make everyone's life better. We talk about a lot of the technologies being used today to make websites more inclusive including the use of AI and how AI can and does enhance inclusion efforts. It is no accident that this episode is being released now. This episode is being released on July 25 to coincide with the 35th anniversary of the signing of the Americans With Disabilities Act which was signed on July 26, 1990. HAPPY BIRTHDAY ADA! After you experience our podcast with Mike, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at michaelhi@accessibe.com to tell me of your observations. Thanks. About the Guest: Mike Paciello is the Chief Accessibility Officer at AudioEye, Inc., a digital accessibility company. Prior to joining AudioEye, Mike founded WebABLE/WebABLE.TV, which delivers news about the disability and accessibility technology market. Mike authored the first book on web accessibility and usability, “Web Accessibility for People with Disabilities” and, in 1997, Mr. Paciello received recognition from President Bill Clinton for his work in the creation of World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI). He has served as an advisor to the US Access Board and other federal agencies since 1992. Mike has served as an international leader, technologist, and authority in emerging technology, accessibility, usability, and electronic publishing. Mike is the former Founder of The Paciello Group (TPG), a world-renowned software accessibility consultancy acquired in 2017 by Vispero. Ways to connect with Mike: mpaciello@webable.com Michael.paciello@audioeye.com Mikepaciello@gmail.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity and the unexpected meet. Normally, our guests deal with the unexpected, which is anything that doesn't have to do with inclusion or diversity. Today, however, we get to sort of deal with both. We have a guest who actually was a guest on our podcast before he was in show 19 that goes all the way back to January of 2022, his name is Mike Paciello. He's been very involved in the whole internet and accessibility movement and so on for more than 30 years, and I think we're going to have a lot of fun chatting about what's going on in the world of accessibility and the Internet and and, you know, and but we won't probably get into whether God is a man or a woman, but that's okay, God is actually both, so we don't have to worry about that. But anyway, Mike, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Mike Paciello ** 02:21 Yeah, Hey, Mike, thanks a lot. I can't believe has it really been already since today, six years since the last time I came on this? No, three, 320, 22 Oh, 2022, I for whatever I 2019 Okay, three years sounds a little bit more realistic, but still, it's been a long time. Thank you for having me. It's, it's, it's great to be here. And obviously, as you know, a lot of things have changed in my life since then. But, yeah, very Michael Hingson ** 02:46 cool. Well, you were in show number 19. And I'm not sure what number this is going to be, but it's going to be above 360 so it's been a while. Amazing, amazing, unstoppable, unstoppable. That's it. We got to keep it going. And Mike and I have been involved in a few things together, in, in later, in, I guess it was in 20 when we do the M enabling Summit, that was 2021 wasn't it? Yeah, I think it was, I think it was the year before we did the podcast, yeah, podcast, 2021 right? So we were in DC, and we both worked because there was a group that wanted to completely condemn the kinds of technologies that accessibe and other companies use. Some people call it overlays. I'm not sure that that's totally accurate today, but we we worked to get them to not do what they originally intended to do, but rather to explore it in a little bit more detail, which I think was a lot more reasonable to do. So we've, we've had some fun over the years, and we see each other every so often, and here we are again today. So yeah, I'm glad you're here. Well, tell us a little about well, and I guess what we'll do is do some stuff that we did in 2022 tell us about kind of the early Mike, growing up and all that and what eventually got you into dealing with all this business of web accessibility and such. Yeah, thank you. Mike Paciello ** 04:08 You know, I've tried to short this, shorten this story 100 times. Oh, don't worry. See if I get let's see if I can keep it succinct and and for the folks out there who understand verbosity and it's in its finest way for screen reader users, I'll try not to be verbose. I already am being Michael Hingson ** 04:28 intermediate levels fine. Mike Paciello ** 04:30 I came into this entire field as a technical writer trying to solve a problem that I kind of stumbled into doing some volunteer work for the debt the company that I then then worked for, a Digital Equipment Corporation, a software company, DEC software hardware company, back then, right back in the early 80s. And as a technical writer, I started learning at that time what was called Gen code. Eventually that morphed in. To what Goldfarb, Charles Goldfarb at IBM, called SGML, or standard, Generalized Markup Language, and that really became the predecessor, really gave birth to what we see on the web today, to HTML and the web markup languages. That's what they were, except back then, they were markup languages for print publications. So we're myself and a lot of colleagues and friends, people probably here, I'm sure, at bare minimum, recognized named George Kercher. George and I really paired together, worked together, ended up creating an international steer with a group of other colleagues and friends called the icad 22 which is 22 stands for the amount of elements in that markup language. And it became the adopted standard accessibility standard for the American Association of Publishers, and they published that became official. Eventually it morphed into what we today call, you know, accessible web development. It was the first instance by that was integrated into the HTML specification, I think officially, was HTML 3.1 3.2 somewhere in there when it was formally adopted and then announced in 1997 and at the World Wide Web Conference. That's really where my activity in the web began. So I was working at DEC, but I was doing a lot of volunteer work at MIT, which is where the W 3c was located at that particular time. And Tim Bursley, who a lot of people i Sir, I'm sure, know, the inventor of the web, led the effort at that time, and a few other folks that I work with, and.da Jim Miller, a few other folks. And we were, well, I wasn't specifically approached. Tim was approached by Vice President Gore and eventually President Clinton at that time to see if we could come up with some sort of technical standard for accessibility. And Tim asked if I'd like to work on it myself. Danielle, Jim, a few others, we did, and we came up that first initial specification and launched it as part of the Web Accessibility Initiative, which we created in 1997 from there, my career just took off. I went off did a couple of small companies that I launched, you know, my namesake company, the Paciello Group, or TPG, now called TPG IGI, yeah, yeah, which was acquired by vector capital, or this bureau back in 2017 so it's hard to believe that's already almost 10 years ago. No, yeah. And I've been walking in, working in the software, web accessibility field, usability field, writing fields, you know, for some pretty close to 45 years. It's 2025 40 years, I mean, and I started around 1984 I think it was 8384 when all this first Michael Hingson ** 07:59 started. Wow, so clearly, you've been doing it for a while and understand a lot of the history of it. So how overall has the whole concept of web accessibility changed over the years, not only from a from a coding standpoint, but how do you think it's really changed when it comes to being addressed by the public and companies and so on. Mike Paciello ** 08:26 That's a great question. I'd certainly like to be more proactive and more positive about it, but, but let me be fair, if you compare today and where web accessibility resides, you know, in the in the business value proposition, so to speak, and list the priorities of companies and corporations. You know, fortune 1000 fortune 5000 call whatever you whatever you want. Accessibility. Is there people? You could say section five way you could say the Web Accessibility Initiative, WCAG, compliance, and by and large, particularly technology driven, digital economy driven businesses, they know what it is. They don't know how to do it. Very rarely do they know how to do it. And even the ones that know how to do it don't really do it very well. So it kind of comes down to the 8020, rule, right? You're a business. Whatever kind of business you are, you're probably in more online presence than ever before, and so a lot of your digital properties will come under you know the laws that mandate usability and accessibility for people with disabilities today that having been said and more and more people know about it than ever before, certainly from the time that I started back in the you know, again, in the early, mid 80s, to where we are today. It's night and day. But in terms of prioritization, I don't know. I think what happens quite often is business value proposition. Decisions get in the way. Priorities get in the way of what a business in, what its core business are, what they're trying to accomplish, who they're trying to sell, sell to. They still view the disability market, never mind the blind and low vision, you know, market alone as a niche market. So they don't make the kind of investors that I, I believe that they could, you know, there's certainly, there are great companies like like Microsoft and and Google, Amazon, Apple, you know, a lot of these companies, you know, have done some Yeoman work at that level, but it's nowhere near where it should be. It just absolutely isn't. And so from that standpoint, in where I envision things, when I started this career was when I was in my 20 somethings, and now I'm over now I'm over 60. Well over 60. Yeah, I expected a lot more in, you know, in an internet age, much, much more. Michael Hingson ** 11:00 Yeah, yeah. Well, it's it's really strange that so much has happened and yet so much hasn't happened. And I agree with you, there's been a lot of visibility for the concept of accessibility and inclusion and making the the internet a better place, but it is so unfortunate that most people don't know how to how to do anything with it. Schools aren't really teaching it. And more important than even teaching the coding, from from my perspective, looking at it more philosophically, what we don't tend to see are people really recognizing the value of disabilities, and the value that the market that people with disabilities bring to the to the world is significant. I mean, the Center for Disease Control talks about the fact that they're like up to 25% of all Americans have some sort of disability. Now I take a different approach. Actually. I don't know whether you've read my article on it, but I believe everyone on the in the in the world has a disability, and the reality is, most people are light dependent, but that's as much a disability as blindness. Except that since 1878 when Thomas Edison invented the light bulb. We have focused nothing short of trying to do everything we can to improve light on demand for the last 147 years. And so the disability is mostly covered up, but it's still there. Mike Paciello ** 12:37 You know, yeah, and I did read that article, and I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I personally think, and I actually have my own blog coming out, and probably later this month might be early, early July, where I talk about the fact that accessibility okay and technology really has been all along. And I love the fact that you call, you know, you identified the, you know, the late 1800s there, when Edison did the the light bulb, Alexander Graham Bell came up with, you know, the telephone. All of those adventures were coming about. But accessibility to people with disabilities, regardless of what their disability is, has always been a catalyst for innovation. That was actually supposed to be the last one I was going to make tonight. Now it's my first point because, because I think it is exactly as you said, Mike, I think that people are not aware. And when I say people, I mean the entire human population, I don't think that we are aware of the history of how, how, because of, I'm not sure if this is the best word, but accommodating users, accommodating people with disabilities, in whatever way, the science that goes behind that design architectural to the point of development and release, oftentimes, things that were done behalf of people with disabilities, or for People with disabilities, resulted in a fundamental, how's this for? For an interesting term, a fundamental alteration right to any other you know, common, and I apologize for the tech, tech, tech language, user interface, right, right? Anything that we interact with has been enhanced because of accessibility, because of people saying, hey, if we made this grip a little bit larger or stickier, we'll call it so I can hold on to it or softer for a person that's got fine motor dexterity disabilities, right? Or if we made a, you know, a web browser, which, of course, we have such that a blind individual, a low vision individual, can adjust the size of this, of the images and the fonts and things like that on a web page, they could do that unknown. Well, these things now. As we well know, help individuals without disabilities. Well, I'm not much, right, and I, again, I'm not speaking as a person beyond your characterization that, hey, look, we are all imperfect. We all have disabilities. And that is, that is absolutely true. But beyond that, I wear glasses. That's it. I do have a little hearing loss too. But you know, I'm finding myself more and more, for example, increasing the size of text. In fact, my note, yes, I increase them to, I don't know they're like, 18 point, just so that it's easier to see. But that is a common thing for every human being, just like you said. Michael Hingson ** 15:36 Well, the reality is that so many tools that we use today come about. And came about because of people with disabilities. Peggy Chung Curtis Chung's wife, known as the blind history lady, and one of the stories that she told on her first visit to unstoppable mindset, which, by the way, is episode number five. I remember that Peggy tells the story of the invention of the typewriter, which was invented for a blind countist, because she wanted to be able to communicate with her lover without her husband knowing about it, and she didn't want to dictate things and so on. She wanted to be able to create a document and seal it, and that way it could be delivered to the lever directly. And the typewriter was the result of Mike Paciello ** 16:20 that? I didn't know that. I will definitely go back. I just wrote it down. I wrote down a note that was episode number five, yeah, before with Curtis a couple of times, but obviously a good friend of ours, yeah, but I yeah, that's, that's, that's awesome. Michael Hingson ** 16:37 Well, and look at, I'll tell you one of the things that really surprises me. So Apple was going to get sued because they weren't making any of their products accessible. And before the lawsuit was filed, they came along and they said, we'll fix it. And they did make and it all started to a degree with iTunes U but also was the iPhone and the iPod and so on. But they they, they did the work. Mostly. They embedded a screen reader called Voiceover in all of their operating systems. They did make iTunes you available. What really surprises me, though is that I don't tend to see perhaps some things that they could do to make voiceover more attractive to drivers so they don't have to look at the screen when a phone call comes in or whatever. And that they could be doing some things with VoiceOver to make it more usable for sighted people in a lot of instances. And I just don't, I don't see any emphasis on that, which is really surprising to me. Mike Paciello ** 17:38 Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, there are a lot of use cases there that you go for. I think Mark Rico would certainly agree with you in terms of autonomous driving for the blind, right? Sure that too. But yeah, I definitely agree and, and I know the guy that the architect voiceover and develop voiceover for Apple and, boy, why can I think of his last name? I know his first name. First name is Mike. Is with Be My Eyes now and in doing things at that level. But I will just say one thing, not to correct you, but Apple had been in the accessibility business long before voice over Alan Brightman and Gary mulcher were instrumental towards convincing, you know, jobs of the importance of accessibility to people with disabilities, Michael Hingson ** 18:31 right? But they weren't doing anything to make products accessible for blind people who needed screen readers until that lawsuit came along. Was Mike Paciello ** 18:40 before screen readers? Yeah, that was before, Michael Hingson ** 18:43 but they did it. Yeah. The only thing I wish Apple would do in that regard, that they haven't done yet, is Apple has mandates and requirements if you're going to put an app in the App Store. And I don't know whether it's quite still true, but it used to be that if your app had a desktop or it looked like a Windows desktop, they wouldn't accept it in the app store. And one of the things that surprises me is that they don't require that app developers make sure that their products are usable with with VoiceOver. And the reality is that's a it doesn't need to be a really significantly moving target. For example, let's say you have an app that is dealing with displaying star charts or maps. I can't see the map. I understand that, but at least voiceover ought to give me the ability to control what goes on the screen, so that I can have somebody describe it, and I don't have to spend 15 or 20 minutes describing my thought process, but rather, I can just move things around on the screen to get to where we need to go. And I wish Apple would do a little bit more in that regard. Mike Paciello ** 19:52 Yeah, I think that's a great a great thought and a great challenge, if, between me and you. Yeah, I think it goes back to what I said before, even though we both see how accessibility or accommodating users with disabilities has led to some of the most incredible innovations. I mean, the Department of Defense, for years, would integrate people with disabilities in their user testing, they could better help, you know, military soldiers, things like that, assimilate situations where there was no hearing, there was they were immobile, they couldn't see all, you know, all of these things that were natural. You know, user environments or personas for people with disabilities. So they led to these kind of, you know, incredible innovations, I would tell you, Mike, I think you know this, it's because the business value proposition dictates otherwise. Michael Hingson ** 20:55 Yeah, and, well, I guess I would change that slightly and say that people think that the business proposition does but it may very well be that they would find that there's a lot more value in doing it if they would really open up their minds to looking at it differently. It's Mike Paciello ** 21:10 kind of, it's kind of like, it's tough. It's kind of like, if I could use this illustration, so to speak, for those who may not be religiously inclined, but you know, it's, it's like prophecy. Most people, you don't know whether or not prophecy is valid until years beyond, you know, years after. And then you could look back at time and say, See, it was all along. These things, you know, resulted in a, me, a major paradigm shift in the way that we do or don't do things. And I think that's exactly what you're saying. You know, if, if people would really look at the potential of what technologies like, you know, a voice over or, as you know, a good friend of mine said, Look, we it should be screen readers. It should be voice IO interfaces, right? That every human can use and interact with regardless. That's what we're really talking about. There's Michael Hingson ** 22:10 a big discussion going on some of the lists now about the meta, Ray Ban, glasses, and some of the things that it doesn't do or that they don't do well, that they should like. It's really difficult to get the meta glasses to read completely a full page. I think there are ways that people have now found to get it to do that, but there are things like that that it that that don't happen. And again, I think it gets back to what you're saying is the attitude is, well, most people aren't going to need that. Well, the reality is, how do you know and how do you know what they'll need until you offer options. So one of my favorite stories is when I worked for Kurzweil a long time ago, some people called one day and they wanted to come and see a new talking computer terminal that that Ray and I and others developed, and they came up, and it turns out, they were with one of those initial organizations out of Langley, Virginia, the CIA. And what they wanted to do was to use the map the the terminal connected to their computers to allow them to move pointers on a map and not have to watch the map or the all of the map while they were doing it, but rather, the computer would verbalize where the pointer was, and then they could they could move it around and pin a spot without having to actually look at the screen, because the way their machine was designed, it was difficult to do that. You know, the reality is that most of the technologies that we need and that we use and can use could be used by so much, so many more people, if people would just really look at it and think about it, but, but you're right, they don't. Mike Paciello ** 24:04 You know, it's, of course, raise a raise another good friend of mine. We both having in common. I work with him. I been down his office a few, more than few times, although his Boston office, anyway, I think he's, I'm not sure he's in Newton. He's in Newton. Yeah. Is he still in Newton? Okay. But anyway, it reminded me of something that happened in a similar vein, and that was several years ago. I was at a fast forward forward conference, future forward conference, and a company, EMC, who absorbed by Dell, I think, right, yes, where they all are. So there I was surprised that when that happened. But hey, yeah, yeah, I was surprised that compact bought depth, so that's okay, yeah, right. That HP bought count, right? That whole thing happened. But um, their chief science, chief scientist, I think he was a their CSO chief scientist, Doc. Came up and made this presentation. And basically the presentation was using voice recognition. They had been hired by the NSA. So it was a NSA right to use voice recognition in a way where they would recognize voices and then record those voices into it, out the output the transcript of that right text, text files, and feed them back to, you know, the NSA agents, right? So here's the funny part of that story goes up i i waited he gave his presentation. This is amazing technology, and what could it was like, 99% accurate in terms of not just recognizing American, English speaking people, but a number of different other languages, in dialects. And the guy who gave the presentation, I actually knew, because he had been a dec for many years. So in the Q and A Part I raised by hand. I got up there. He didn't recognize it a few years had gone by. And I said, you know, this is amazing technology. We could really use this in the field that I work in. And he said, Well, how's that? And I said, you know, voice recognition and outputting text would allow us to do now this is probably 2008 2009 somewhere in that area, would allow us to do real time, automated transcription for the Deaf, Captioning. And he looks at me and he he says, Do I know you? This is through a live audience. I said. I said, Yeah, Mark is it was. Mark said, So Mike gas yellow. He said, you're the only guy in town that I know that could turn a advanced, emerging technology into something for people with disabilities. I can't believe it. So that was, that was, but there was kind of the opposite. It was a technology they were focused on making this, you know, this technology available for, you know, government, obviously covert reasons that if they were using it and applying it in a good way for people with disabilities, man, we'd have been much faster, much further along or even today, right? I mean, it's being done, still not as good, not as good as that, as I saw. But that just goes to show you what, what commercial and government funding can do when it's applied properly? Michael Hingson ** 27:41 Well, Dragon, naturally speaking, has certainly come a long way since the original Dragon Dictate. But there's still errors, there's still things, but it does get better, but I hear exactly what you're saying, and the reality is that we don't tend to think in broad enough strokes for a lot of the things that we do, which is so unfortunate, Mike Paciello ** 28:03 yeah? I mean, I've had an old saying that I've walked around for a long time. I should have, I should make a baseball cap, whether something or T shirt. And it simply was, think accessibility, yeah, period. If, if, if we, organizations, people, designers, developers, architects, usability, people, QA, people. If everybody in the, you know, in the development life cycle was thinking about accessibility, or accessibility was integrated, when we say accessibility, we're talking about again, for users with disabilities, if that became part of, if not the functional catalyst, for technology. Man, we'd have been a lot further along in the quote, unquote value chains than we are today. Michael Hingson ** 28:46 One of the big things at least, that Apple did do was they built voiceover into their operating system, so anybody who buys any Apple device today automatically has redundancy here, but access to accessibility, right? Which, which is really the way it ought to be. No offense to vispero and jaws, because they're they're able to fill the gap. But still, if Microsoft had truly devoted the time that they should have to narrate her at the beginning. We might see a different kind of an architecture today. Mike Paciello ** 29:26 You know, I so I want to, by the way, the person that invented that wrote that code is Mike shabanik. That's his name I was thinking about. So Mike, if you're listening to this guy, just hi from two others. And if he's not, he should be, yeah, yeah, exactly right from two other mics. But so let me ask you this question, because I legitimately can't remember this, and have had a number of discussions with Mike about this. So VoiceOver is native to the US, right? Michael Hingson ** 29:56 But no, well, no to to the to the to the. Products, but not just the US. No, Mike Paciello ** 30:02 no, I said, OS, yes, it's native to OS, yeah, right. It's native that way, right? But doesn't it still use an off screen model for producing or, you know, translate the transformation of, you know, on screen to voice. Michael Hingson ** 30:27 I'm not sure that's totally true. Go a little bit deeper into that for me. Mike Paciello ** 30:34 Well, I mean, so NVDA and jaws use this off screen model, right, which is functionally, they grab, will they grab some content, or whatever it is, push it to this, you know, little black box, do all those translations, you know, do all the transformation, and then push it back so it's renderable to a screen reader. Okay, so that's this off screen model that is transparent to the users, although now you know you can get into it and and tweak it and work with it right, right? I recall when Mike was working on the original design of of nary, excuse me, a voiceover, and he had called me, and I said, Are you going to continue with the notion of an off screen model? And he said, Yeah, we are. And I said, Well, when you can build something that's more like what TV Raman has built into Emacs, and it works integral to the actual OS, purely native. Call me because then I'm interested in, but now that was, you know, 1520, years ago, right? I mean, how long has voiceover been around, Michael Hingson ** 31:51 since 2007 Mike Paciello ** 31:54 right? So, yeah, 20 years ago, right? Just shy of 20 years, 18 years. So I don't know. I honestly don't know. I'm Michael Hingson ** 32:02 not totally sure, but I believe that it is, but I can, you know, we'll have to, we'll have to look into that. Mike Paciello ** 32:08 If anyone in the audience is out there looking at you, get to us before we find out. Let us we'll find out at the NFB Michael Hingson ** 32:12 convention, because they're going to be a number of Apple people there. We can certainly ask, there Mike Paciello ** 32:17 you go. That's right, for sure. James Craig is bound to be there. I can ask him and talk to him about that for sure. Yep, so anyway, Michael Hingson ** 32:23 but I think, I think it's a very it's a valid point. And you know, the the issue is that, again, if done right and app developers are doing things right there, there needs to, there ought to be a way that every app has some level of accessibility that makes it more available. And the reality is, people, other than blind people use some of these technologies as well. So we're talking about voice input. You know, quadriplegics, for example, who can't operate a keyboard will use or a mouse can use, like a puff and zip stick to and and Dragon to interact with a computer and are successful at doing it. The reality is, there's a whole lot more opportunities out there than people think. Don't Mike Paciello ** 33:11 I agree with that. I'm shaking my head up and down Mike and I'm telling you, there is, I mean, voice recognition alone. I can remember having a conversation with Tony vitality, one of the CO inventors of the deck talk. And that goes all the way back into the, you know, into the early 90s, about voice recognition and linguistics and what you know, and I know Kurzweil did a lot of working with Terry right on voice utterances and things like that. Yeah, yeah. There's, there's a wide open window of opportunity there for study and research that could easily be improved. And as you said, and this is the point, it doesn't just improve the lives of the blind or low vision. It improves the lives of a number of different types of Persona, disability persona types, but it would certainly create a pathway, a very wide path, for individuals, users without disabilities, in a number of different life scenarios. Michael Hingson ** 34:10 Yeah, and it's amazing how little sometimes that's done. I had the pleasure a few years ago of driving a Tesla down Interstate 15 out here in California. Glad I wasn't there. You bigot, you know, the co pilot system worked. Yeah, you know, I just kept my hands on the wheel so I didn't very much, right? Not have any accidents. Back off now it worked out really well, but, but here's what's really interesting in that same vehicle, and it's something that that I find all too often is is the case if I were a passenger sitting in the front seat, there's so much that I as a passenger don't have access to that other passenger. Do radios now are mostly touchscreen right, which means and they don't build in the features that would make the touchscreen system, which they could do, accessible. The Tesla vehicle is incredibly inaccessible. And there's for a guy who's so innovative, there's no reason for that to be that way. And again, I submit that if they truly make the product so a blind person could use it. Think of how much more a sighted person who doesn't have to take their eyes off the road could use the same technologies. Mike Paciello ** 35:35 You know, Mike, again, you and I are on the same page. I mean, imagine these guys are supposed to be creative and imaginative and forward thinking, right? Could you? Can you imagine a better tagline than something along the lines of Tesla, so user friendly that a blind person can drive it? Yeah? I mean this is, have you heard or seen, you know, metaphorically speaking, or that's okay, a an advertisement or PR done by any, any company, because they're all, all the way across the board, that hasn't featured what it can do to enhance lives of people with disabilities. Where it wasn't a hit. I mean, literally, it was, yeah, you see these commercials played over and over to Apple, Microsoft, Emma, I see McDonald's, Walmart. I mean, I could just name, name the one after another. Really, really outstanding. Salesforce has done it. Just incredible. They would do it, yeah. I mean, there is there any more human centric message than saying, Look what we've built and designed we're releasing to the masses and everyone, anyone, regardless of ability, can use it. Yeah, that, to me, is that's, I agree that's a good route, right for marketing and PR, good, Michael Hingson ** 37:03 yeah. And yet they don't, you know, I see commercials like about one of the one of the eye injections, or whatever Bobby is, Mo or whatever it is. And at the beginning, the woman says, I think I'm losing sight of the world around me. You know that's all about, right? It's eyesight and nothing else. And I appreciate, I'm all for people keeping their eyesight and doing what's necessary. But unfortunately, all too often, we do that at the detriment of of other people, which is so unfortunate. Mike Paciello ** 37:39 Yeah, you know again, not to, not to get off the subject, but one of my favorite books is rethinking competitive advantage, by Ram Sharon. I don't know if you know know him, but the guy is one of my heroes in terms of just vision and Business and Technology. And in this, this book, he wrote this a couple of years ago. He said this one this is his first rule of competition in the digital age. The number one rule was simply this, a personalized consumer experience, key to exponential growth. That's exactly you and I are talking about personally. I want to see interfaces adapt to users, rather than what we have today, which is users having to adapt to the interface. Michael Hingson ** 38:32 Yeah, and it would make so much sense to do so. I hope somebody out there is listening and will maybe take some of this to heart, because if they do it right, they can have a huge market in no time at all, just because they show they care. You know, Nielsen Company did a survey back in 2016 where they looked at a variety of companies and consumers and so on. And if I recall the numbers right, they decided that people with disabilities are 35% more likely to continue to work with and shop, for example, at companies that really do what they can to make their websites and access to their products accessible, as opposed to not. And that's that's telling. It's so very telling. But we don't see people talking about that nearly like we should Mike Paciello ** 39:20 you talk about a business value proposition. There is bullet proof that where you are leaving money on the table, yep, and a lot of it, yeah, exactly. We're not talking about 1000s or hundreds of 1000s. We're talking about billions and trillions, in some instances, not an exaggeration by any stretch of the imagination, very, very simple math. I had this conversation a couple years ago with the CEO of Pearson. At that time, he's retired, but, you know, I told him, if you spent $1 for every person that it was in the world with. Disability, you're, you're, you're talking about 1/4 of the population, right? It's simple math, simple math, Michael Hingson ** 40:08 but people still won't do it. I mean, we taught you to mention section 508, before with the whole issue of web access, how much of the government has really made their websites accessible, even though it's the law? Mike Paciello ** 40:19 Yeah, three years, three or four years ago, they did a study, and they found out that the good that every federal agency, most of the federal agencies, were not even keeping up thinking with reporting of the status, of where they were, and yet that was written right into the five way law. They were mandated to do it, and they still did do Michael Hingson ** 40:37 it. We haven't, you know, the whole Americans with Disabilities Act. Finally, the Department of Justice said that the internet is a place of business, but still, it's not written in the law. And of course, we only see about 3% of all websites that tend to have any level of access. And there's no reason for that. It's not that magical. And again, I go back to what do we do to get schools and those who teach people how to code to understand the value of putting in accessibility right from the outset? Mike Paciello ** 41:10 Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. I think this is what Kate sanka is trying to do with with Teach access. In fact, you know, again, my company, TPG was one of the founding companies have teach access back again, 10 years ago, when it first started. But that's where it starts. I mean, they're, they're pretty much focused on post secondary, university education, but I could tell you on a personal level, I was speaking at my kids grade school, elementary school, because they were already using laptops and computers back then it starts. Then you've got to build a mindset. You've got to build it we you've heard about the accessibility, maturity models coming out of the W, 3c, and in I, double AP. What that speaks to fundamentally, is building a culture within your corporate organization that is think accessibility as a think accessibility mindset, that it is woven into the fiber of every business line, in every technology, software development life cycle, all of the contributors at that level, from A to Z. But if you don't build it into the culture, it's not going to happen. So I would love to see a lot more being done at that level. But yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a hero. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 42:34 we're, we're left out of the conversation so much. Yeah, yeah, totally. So you, you sold TPG, and you then formed, or you had web able and then able Docs. Mike Paciello ** 42:48 So what web able came out was a carve out, one of two carve outs that I had from when I sold TPG. The other was open access technologies, which which eventually was sold to another accessibility company primarily focused on making documentation accessible to meet the WCAG and other standards requirements and web able I carved out. It's been a kind of a hobby of mine now, for since I sold TPG, I'm still working on the back end, ironically, from the get go, so we're talking, you know, again, eight years ago, I had built machine learning and AI into it. From then back then, I did so that what it does is it very simply, goes out and collects 1000s and 1000s of articles as it relates to technology, people with disabilities, and then cleans them up and post them to web able.com I've got a lot more playing for it, but that's in a nutshell. That's what it does. And I don't we do some we do some QA review to make sure that the cleanup in terms of accessibility and the articles are are properly formatted and are accessible. We use the web aim API, but yeah, works like magic. Works like clockwork, and that's got aI uses IBM Watson AI built into it. Yeah, enable docs was abledocs was, how should I say this in a nice way, abledocs was a slight excursion off of my main route. It can work out. I wish it had. It had a lot of potential, much like open access technologies, but they both suffered from owners who really, really not including myself, who just didn't have good vision and in lack humility, Michael Hingson ** 44:43 yeah. How's that? There you go. Well, so not to go political or anything, but AI in general is interesting, and I know that there have been a lot of debates over the last few years about artificial. Intelligence and helping to make websites accessible. There are several companies like AudioEye, user way, accessibe and so on that to one degree or another, use AI. What? What? So in general, what do you think about AI and how it's going to help deal with or not, the whole issue of disabilities and web access, Mike Paciello ** 45:22 yeah, and we're going to set aside Neil Jacobs thoughts on how he sees it in the future, right? Although I have to tell you, he gave me some things to think about, so we'll just set that to to the side. So I think what AI offers today is something that I thought right away when it started to see the, you know, the accessibes, the user ways, the audio, eyes, and all the other companies kind of delving into it, I always saw potential to how's this remediate a fundamental problem or challenge, let's not call it a problem, a challenge that we were otherwise seeing in the professional services side of that equation around web accessibility, right? So you get experts who use validation tools and other tools, who know about code. Could go in and they know and they use usability, they use user testing, and they go in and they can tell you what you need to do to make your digital properties right, usable and accessible. People with disabilities, all well and good. That's great. And believe me, I had some of the best people, if not the best people in the world, work for me at one time. However, there are a couple of things it could not do in it's never going to do. Number one, first and foremost, from my perspective, it can't scale. It cannot scale. You can do some things at, you know, in a large way. For example, if, if a company is using some sort of, you know, CMS content management system in which their entire sites, you know, all their sites, all their digital properties, you know, are woven into templates, and those templates are remediated. So that cuts down a little bit on the work. But if you go into companies now, it's not like they're limited to two or three templates. Now they've got, you know, department upon department upon department, everybody's got a different template. So even those are becoming very vos, very verbose and very plentiful. So accessibility as a manual effort doesn't really scale well. And if it does, even if it could, it's not fast enough, right? So that's what AI does, AI, coupled with automation, speeds up that process and delivers a much wider enterprise level solution. Now again, AI automation is not, is not a whole, is not a holistic science. You know, it's not a silver bullet. David Marathi likes to use the term, what is he? He likes the gold standard. Well, from his perspective, and by the way, David Marathi is CEO of audio. Eye is a combination of automation AI in expert analysis, along with the use of the integration of user testing and by user testing, it's not just personas, but it's also compatibility with the assistive technologies that people with disabilities use. Now, when you do that, you've got something that you could pattern after a standard software development life cycle, environment in which you integrate all of these things. So if you got a tool, you integrate it there. If you've got, you know, a digital accessibility platform which does all this automation, AI, right, which, again, this is the this is a forester foresters take on the the the daps, as they calls it. And not really crazy about that, but that's what they are. Digital Accessibility platforms. It allows us to scale and scale at costs that are much lower, at speeds that are much faster, and it's just a matter of like any QA, you've got to check your work, and you've got it, you can't count on that automation being absolute. We know for a fact that right now, at best, we're going to be able to get 35 to 40% accuracy, some claim, larger different areas. I'm still not convinced of that, but the fact of the matter is, it's like anything else. Technology gets better as it goes, and we'll see improvements over time periods. Michael Hingson ** 49:49 So here's here's my thought, yeah, let's say you use AI in one of the products that's out there. And I. You go to a website and you include it, and it reasonably well makes the website 50% more usable and accessible than it was before. I'm just, I just threw out that number. I know it's random. Go ahead, Yep, yeah, but let's say it does that. The reality is that means that it's 50% that the web developers, the web coders, don't have to do because something else is dealing with it. But unfortunately, their mentality is not to want to deal with that because they also fear it. But, you know, I remember back in the mid 1980s I started a company because I went off and tried to find a job and couldn't find one. So I started a company with a couple of other people, where we sold early PC based CAD systems to architects, right? And we had AutoCAD versus CAD. Another one called point line, which was a three dimensional system using a y cap solid modeling board that took up two slots in your PC. So it didn't work with all PCs because we didn't have enough slots. But anyway, right, right, right. But anyway, when I brought architects in and we talked about what it did and we showed them, many of them said, I'll never use that. And I said, why? Well, it does work, and that's not the question. But the issue is, we charge by the time, and so we take months to sometimes create designs and projects, right? And so we can't lose that revenue. I said, you're looking at it all wrong. Think about it this way, somebody gives you a job, you come back and you put it in the CAD system. You go through all the iterations it takes, let's just say, two weeks. Then you call your customer in. You use point line, and you can do a three dimensional walk through and fly through. You can even let them look out the window and see what there is and all that they want to make changes. They tell you the changes. You go off and you make the changes. And two weeks later, now it's a month, you give them their finished product, all the designs, all the plots and all that, all done, and you charge them exactly the same price you were going to charge them before. Now you're not charging for your time, you're charging for your expertise, right? And I think that same model still holds true that the technology, I think most people will agree that it is not perfect, but there are a lot of things that it can do. Because the reality is, the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, are all things that can be defined with computer code, whether it necessarily does it all well with AI or not, is another story. But if it does it to a decent fraction, it makes all the difference in terms of what you're able to do and how quickly you can do Mike Paciello ** 52:52 it. Yeah, I can argue with that at all. I think any time that we can make our jobs a little bit easier so that we can focus where we should be focused. In this case, as you said, the expertise side of it, right to fix those complicated scenarios or situations that require a hands on surgical like Right? Expertise, you can do that now. You've got more hours more time because it's been saved. The only thing I would say, Mike, about what, what you just said, is that there with that, with that mindset, okay, comes responsibility. Oh, yeah, in this is where I think in everybody that knows anything about this environment, you and I have an intimate understanding of this. The whole overlay discussion is the biggest problem with what happened was less about the technology and more about what claims are being made. Yeah, the technology could do which you could not do in, in some cases, could never do, or would never, would never do, well, right? So if you create, and I would submit this is true in as a fundamental principle, if you create a technology of any kind, you must, in truth, inform your clients of of what it can and cannot do so they understand the absolute value to them, because the last thing you want, because, again, we live in a, unfortunately, a very litigious world. Right soon as there's Michael Hingson ** 54:49 a mistake couldn't happen, Mike Paciello ** 54:51 they'll go right after you. So now you know, and again, I don't I'm not necessarily just blaming the ambulance chasers of the world. World. I was talking to an NFP lawyer today. He referred to them in a different name, and I can't remember well, I never heard the expression before, but that's what he meant, right? Yeah, it's the salesman and the product managers and the marketing people themselves, who are were not themselves, to your point, properly trained, properly educated, right? It can't be done, what clearly could not be said, what should or should not be said, right? And then you got lawyers writing things all over the place. So, yeah, yeah. So, so I look people knew when I made the decision to come to audio eye that it was a make or break scenario for me, or at least that's what they thought in my mindset. It always, has always been, that I see incredible possibilities as you do or technology, it just has to be handled responsibly. Michael Hingson ** 55:56 Do you think that the companies are getting better and smarter about what they portray about their products than they than they were three and four and five years ago. Mike Paciello ** 56:08 Okay, look, I sat in and chaired a meeting with the NFB on this whole thing. And without a doubt, they're getting smarter. But it took not just a stick, you know, but, but these large lawsuits to get them to change their thinking, to see, you know, where they where they were wrong, and, yeah, things are much better. There's still some issues out there. I both know it that's going to happen, that happens in every industry, Michael Hingson ** 56:42 but there are improvements. It is getting better, and people are getting smarter, and that's where an organization like the NFB really does need to become more involved than in a sense, they are. They took some pretty drastic steps with some of the companies, and I think that they cut off their nose, despite their face as well, and that didn't help. So I think there are things that need to be done all the way around, but I do see that progress is being made too. I totally Mike Paciello ** 57:11 agree, and in fact, I'm working with them right now. We're going to start working on the California Accessibility Act again. I'm really looking forward to working with the NFB, the DRC and Imperato over there and his team in the disability rights consortium, consortium with disability rights. What DRC coalition, coalition in in California. I can't wait to do that. We tried last year. We got stopped short. It got tabled, but I feel very good about where we're going this year. So that's, that's my that's, that is my focus right now. And I'm glad I'm going to be able to work with the NFB to be able to do that. Yeah, well, I, I really do hope that it passes. We've seen other states. We've seen some states pass some good legislation, and hopefully we will continue to see some of that go on. Yeah, Colorado has done a great job. Colorado sent a great job. I think they've done it. I really like what's being done with the EAA, even though it's in Europe, and some of the things that are going there, Susanna, Lauren and I had some great discussions. I think she is has been a leader of a Yeoman effort at that level. So we'll see. Let's, let's, I mean, there's still time out here. I guess I really would like to retire, Michael Hingson ** 58:28 but I know the feeling well, but I can't afford to yet, so I'll just keep speaking and all that well, Mike, this has been wonderful. I really appreciate you taking an hour and coming on, and at least neither of us is putting up with any kind of snow right now, but later in the year we'll see more of that. Mike Paciello ** 58:45 Yeah, well, maybe you will. We don't get snow down. I have. We've gotten maybe 25 flakes in North Carolina since I've been here. Michael Hingson ** 58:53 Yeah, you don't get a lot of snow. We don't hear we don't really get it here, around us, up in the mountains, the ski resorts get it, but I'm out in a valley, so we don't, yeah, Mike Paciello ** 59:02 yeah, no. I love it. I love this is golfing weather. Michael Hingson ** 59:05 There you go. If people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Mike Paciello ** 59:11 There's a couple of ways. Certainly get in touch with me at AudioEye. It's michael.paciello@audioeye.com Michael Hingson ** 59:17 B, A, C, I, E, L, L, O, Mike Paciello ** 59:18 that's correct. Thank you for that. You could send me personal email at Mike paciello@gmail.com and or you can send me email at web able. It's m passielo at web able.com, any one of those ways. And please feel free you get on all the social networks. So feel free to link, connect to me. Anyway, I try to respond. I don't think there's anyone I I've not responded to one form or another. Michael Hingson ** 59:46 Yeah, I'm I'm the same way. If I get an email, I want to respond to it. Yeah, well, thanks again for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening. We really appreciate it. Love to hear your thoughts about this episode. Please feel free to email. Me, you can get me the email address I generally use is Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, or you can go to our podcast page, which is Michael hingson.com/podcast, and there's a contact form there. But love to hear from you. Love to hear your thoughts, and most of all, please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening. We value your ratings and your reviews a whole lot, so we really appreciate you doing that. And if any of you, and Mike, including you, can think of other people that you think ought to be guests on the podcast, we are always looking for more people, so fill us up, help us find more folks. And we would appreciate that a great deal. So again, Mike, thanks very much. This has been a lot of fun, and we'll have to do it again. Mike Paciello ** 1:00:44 Thanks for the invitation. Mike, I really appreciate it. Don't forget to add 10 Nakata to your list, Michael Hingson ** 1:00:49 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.
Dans l'actu des nouvelles technologies et de l'accessibilité cette semaine : Du côté des applications et du web La conférence NFB 25, gros plan sur l'accessibilité numérique. Vispero répond : L'histoire derrière les derniers prix de JAWS. ILuvUI, l'IA d'Apple qui comprend les interfaces d'applications. La dernière mise à jour du narrateur de Windows apporte des descriptions d'images basées sur l'IA.. Android et ChromeOS fusionnent : Google va proposer une plateforme unique pour les smartphones, les tablettes et les PC. Problème bloquant d'accessibilité avec les messages vocaux dans l'appli Whatsapp pour iOS, en cours de résolution. L'extension Mots de passe iCloud d'Apple devient compatible avec Firefox sur Windows. Après plusieurs semaines de cahos, la connexion sur le site des impots pour les pro est de nouveau accessible. Le reste de l'actu Des gants IA : la fin du silence pour les sourdaveugles ? Carrefour, Leclerc et Picard mis en demeure par des associations car leurs sites et applications de vente ne sont pas entièrement accessibles aux aveugles et malvoyants. Témoignage Jean-François nous a contacté à propos des écouteurs SoundCore Aeroclip by Anker : les écouteurs ouverts ultimes pour sportifs. Et toujours notre dossier : Des écouteurs audio qui laissent les conduits auditifs libres, des accessoires indispensable pour le guidage numérique. Le coup de coeur de Yannick Aveugle, il sauve son ami handicapé tombé sur les rails, avant le passage d'un TGV. Remerciements Cette semaine, nous remercions Bolt, David, Jean-François et Plaza pour leurs infos ou leur dons. Si vous souhaitez vous aussi nous envoyer de l'info ou nous soutenir : Pour nous contactez ou nous envoyez des infos, passez par le formulaire de contact sur la page oxytude.org/contact. Pour nous soutenir (dons, liens affiliés ou liste de produits) rendez-vous sur la page oxytude.org/soutenir. Pour vos achats sur Amazon, passez par notre lien affilié. Pour animer cet épisode François, Philippe et Yannick.
Don't worry folks, Unlike the Icelandic volcano 'Eyjafjallajökull', we have not erupted, but we are quite hot and sweaty in the BGC office. Jan is just back from Washington DC where Abraham Lincon and his mates were sweltering in 35-degree heat (95 degrees in old money). Jan was a bit peeved, as his ‘Look and Tell' feature on his Meta Ray Ban glasses is still not working. Oh dear! However, perhaps he might purchase a pair of the new Oakley smart glasses, or as Jan calls them, the new UGLY glasses! (Oakley will not be pleased at being called that – as they're a very proud fashion brand!) Do you plan on spending your hard-earned cash on the limited edition gold Oakleys? Let us know: BlindGuysChat@gmail.com. Mohammed has been slaving over a hot soldering iron and has just released the latest update for JAWS and Fusion. Apparently, you can now have JAWS run off to the cloud when you encounter an unlabelled button in an app, pdf or webpage – it will find the correct label for you. All you do is press the keystroke JAWS key (insert or caps lock), with the letter G, and JAWS will label that button for you. How cool is that?! You can even save these labelled buttons on webpages that you frequently use. Woohoo!! And there's more. When using Vispero's FS Companion you can now get Google help. You can search for shortcuts for Google Docs, Google Sheets etc. But can it find Mo's underpants? (Óran! Don't be bold! -Clodagh) We chat about the emotional rollercoaster that is deciding whether to apply for a new guide dog or not. Please let us know your stories around this. It will help us, and more importantly, other listeners through their decision-making processes. And if you would like to hear Óran talking about writing for the TV series ‘Maddie + Triggs', you can listen to him (link below) on the 'In Touch' podcast produced by the BBC, where he and producer Colm Tobin and lyricist/writer Deena Diamond talk about the show with Peter White. So, strip down to your ugly nethers, take a cold one out of the fridge, and lie back for a listen to the sultry, ice creamly voices of: Blind Guys Chat! 55 out of 65 thunderstorms prefer it to making scary crackly/banging noises! Links for this week's show: BBC In Touch: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002fjp9 (starts after 8 minutes) Email us at BlindGuysChat@gmail.com Support Blind Guys Chat by contributing to their tip jar: https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/blind-guys-chatRead transcript
W tym odcinku TyfloPrzeglądu omawiamy działającą już audiodeskrypcję w pilocie WP, poprawki i błędy w trzecich betach systemów Apple oraz lipcową aktualizację JAWS 2025. Skoro już o tym programie mowa, przyglądamy się również odpowiedzi Vispero na kontrowersje związane z nowym cennikiem. Zastanawiamy się, czy sztuczna inteligencja może wspierać nawigację osób niewidomych i omawiamy możliwości zegarka Synapptic Watch. Poruszamy także temat dostępności skomplikowanych systemów windowych, testów turystycznych eSIM-ów, zagrożeń cyberprzestępczością, zmian na Allegro i nowości od Apple. Audycja dostępna jest również w wygenerowanej automatycznie wersji tekstowej
Steven and Shaun return from their short break with a packed episode tackling everything from JAWS pricing drama to the future of smart doorbells and AI agents. A major focus is the workplace screen reader debate: why NVDA isn't widely adopted, and whether JAWS remains the only viable option for employment.Later, they're joined by Matt Ater and Ryan Jones from Vispero, who clarify misunderstandings around recent price changes, subscription models, and international support. The pair also tease new JAWS features coming this fall, including support for multi-line braille and AI-powered web navigation tools.The episode also explores Ring's new AI video description feature for premium users, promising a step toward smarter accessibility. Plus, the team share a demo of Guide—an AI assistant that can perform actions on inaccessible websites—and react to Apple's rumored Anthropic-powered Siri upgrade.Chapters00:00 - Introduction00:19 - And we're back from break!12:15 - Ring doorbells get new AI features in USA and Canada16:57 - Guide offers a way to easily interact with a computer21:53 - Apple may use Anthropic to improve Siri more quickly23:54 - New Macbook rumour using iPhone processor26:52 - Vispero's Matt Ater and Ryan Jones discuss pricing & 30 years of JAWS Find Double Tap online: YouTube, Double Tap Website---Follow on:YouTube: https://www.doubletaponair.com/youtubeX (formerly Twitter): https://www.doubletaponair.com/xInstagram: https://www.doubletaponair.com/instagramTikTok: https://www.doubletaponair.com/tiktokThreads: https://www.doubletaponair.com/threadsFacebook: https://www.doubletaponair.com/facebookLinkedIn: https://www.doubletaponair.com/linkedin Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://www.doubletaponair.com/appleSpotify: https://www.doubletaponair.com/spotifyRSS: https://www.doubletaponair.com/podcastiHeadRadio: https://www.doubletaponair.com/iheart About Double TapHosted by the insightful duo, Steven Scott and Shaun Preece, Double Tap is a treasure trove of information for anyone who's blind or partially sighted and has a passion for tech. Steven and Shaun not only demystify tech, but they also regularly feature interviews and welcome guests from the community, fostering an interactive and engaging environment. Tune in every day of the week, and you'll discover how technology can seamlessly integrate into your life, enhancing daily tasks and experiences, even if your sight is limited. "Double Tap" is a registered trademark of Double Tap Productions Inc.
Learn how to save time and edit documents more efficiently using the Find and Replace feature in Microsoft Word with JAWS. In this episode, Ron Miller walks you through practical examples—from replacing single and multiple words, to inserting special characters like ñ, to using the built-in thesaurus to find the perfect synonym. You'll also discover handy JAWS tips like using the clipboard viewer and jumping to specific pages in long documents. Whether you're a student, professional, or just want to sharpen your editing skills, this episode offers step-by-step guidance to boost your productivity with JAWS.
On FSCast this month: • Elisabeth Whitaker introduces Vispero's plans and events for the upcoming Summer conventions. • Joseph LaFauci contributes a JAWS power tip of the month. • Peter Tucic, Sile O'Modhrain and Matthew Horspool take us into the world of multiline Braille and visual tables. • And Isabel Holdsworth shares her impressions from a cruise in Antarctica.
This week, Rob Mineault, Ryan Fleury, and Steve Barclay dive into an exciting celebration—the 30th anniversary of JAWS, the groundbreaking screen reader from Vispero! Joined by special guests Rachel Buchanan and Elizabeth Whitaker from Vispero, the crew discusses JAWS's incredible journey and impact on users around the globe. Rachel and Elizabeth share personal insights and highlight anniversary celebrations, including a fascinating timeline memorial wall at CSUN, the exclusive “Insert J Club” for dedicated JAWS users, and various engaging training events. Plus, they unveil the latest cutting-edge AI features, such as FS Companion and a handy new AI Text Grabber, designed to significantly enhance accessibility. Listen now to explore how community engagement, innovative training, and advanced technology have come together to empower JAWS users over the last three decades—and maybe even get a tidbit of what might be coming next. Show Transcript https://atbanter.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/at-banter-podcast-episode-427-jaws-30th-anniversary.pdf Show Notes Vispero https://vispero.com/ Insert J Club https://www.freedomscientific.com/insertjclub/ JAWS Timeline https://vispero.com/jaws-timeline/ AT Banter is brought to you by Canadian Assistive Technology, providing sales and training in Assistive Technology and Accessibility with over 30 years of knowledge and experience. Visit them online at www.canasstech.com or call toll-free 1-844-795-8324 or visit their Assistive Technology Showroom at 106 – 828 West 8th Avenue, Vancouver. Need repairs on your device? Chaos Technical Services offers service and support on almost any piece of Assistive Technology, while also providing parts and batteries. Visit them online at www.chaostechnicalservices.com or call 778-847-6840.
On FSCast this month, we catch up with Ryan Jones, our VP of Software and Product Management , to find out some of what's new with Vispero products. At the Optelec stand, our colleague Rene Ludwig shows us a self-service kiosk running JAWS. And we visit with Nolan Crabb, Director of Assistive Technology at Ohio State University, to hear about his life and work experience. On FSCast this month, we catch up with Ryan Jones, our VP of Software and Product Management , to find out some of what's new with Vispero products. At the Optelec stand, our colleague Rene Ludwig shows us a self-service kiosk running JAWS. And we visit with Nolan Crabb, Director of Assistive Technology at Ohio State University, to hear about his life and work experience.
In this special Global Accessibility Awareness Day edition of Double Tap, Steven and Shaun are joined by top voices in tech accessibility, including Matt Ater from Vispero, Mike Buckley from Be My Eyes, Patrick Long from InnoSearch, and Apple's Director of Accessibility, Sarah Herrlinger.Matt shares news of Vispero's global rollout of accessible payment terminals powered by JAWS for Kiosk, and reflects on 30 years of JAWS development in partnership with Microsoft. Meanwhile, Be My Eyes and InnoSearch announce a new collaboration, offering 2% cashback for accessible shopping and a voice-based AI shopping assistant for non-tech users.Apple's Sarah Herrlinger unveils a suite of upcoming accessibility features, including Braille Access for note-taking, Magnifier for Mac, AI-powered object recognition in Vision Pro, and new Accessibility Nutrition Labels in the App Store. The show also features GAAD co-founder Joe Devon recounting how the movement began and why the mission continues.Chapters0:00 – Introduction4:40 – JAWS for Kiosk expands globally7:03 – Celebrating 30 years of JAWS and Microsoft's role9:23 – AI Labeler and Picture Smart in JAWS13:40 – Insert+J Club and JAWS community engagement14:52 – Be My Eyes and InnoSearch partnership announcement20:37 – InnerSearch's accessible shopping evolution33:44 – Origins of Global Accessibility Awareness Day with Joe Devon41:49 – Apple Vision Pro accessibility features44:14 – Braille Access and new note-taking tools46:24 – App Store Accessibility Labels explained51:01 – Magnifier for Mac and Accessibility ReaderRelevant LinksApple Accessibility: https://www.apple.com/accessibilityBe My Eyes: https://www.bemyeyes.comVispero: https://www.vispero.comInnoSearch: https://www.innosearch.ai/Global Accessibility Awareness Day: https://accessibility.dayGet in touch with us by email at feedback@doubletaponair.com or connect on WhatsApp at https://www.doubletaponair.com/whatsapp Find Double Tap online: YouTube, Double Tap Website---Follow on:YouTube: https://www.doubletaponair.com/youtubeX (formerly Twitter): https://www.doubletaponair.com/xInstagram: https://www.doubletaponair.com/instagramTikTok: https://www.doubletaponair.com/tiktokThreads: https://www.doubletaponair.com/threadsFacebook: https://www.doubletaponair.com/facebookLinkedIn: https://www.doubletaponair.com/linkedin Subscribe to the Podcast:Apple: https://www.doubletaponair.com/appleSpotify: https://www.doubletaponair.com/spotifyRSS: https://www.doubletaponair.com/podcastiHeadRadio: https://www.doubletaponair.com/iheart About Double TapHosted by the insightful duo, Steven Scott and Shaun Preece, Double Tap is a treasure trove of information for anyone who's blind or partially sighted and has a passion for tech. Steven and Shaun not only demystify tech, but they also regularly feature interviews and welcome guests from the community, fostering an interactive and engaging environment. Tune in every day of the week, and you'll discover how technology can seamlessly integrate into your life, enhancing daily tasks and experiences, even if your sight is limited. "Double Tap" is a registered trademark of Double Tap Productions Inc.
20250508 Vispero - Access settings in Microsoft Edge with JAWS Originally Broadcasted May 8, 2025, on ACB Media 5 Participants learned how to access, search, and sync settings, plus manage important data in the Edge browser with JAWS Sponsored by: Vispero Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co
20250501 Vispero - Manage Browser History in Chrome with JAWS Originally Broadcasted May 1, 2025, on ACB Media 5 Participants joined us to learn how to navigate their browsers history in Chrome with JAWS, plus search for, access, and delete items. Sponsored by: Vispero Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co
In this episode, Ron Miller from Vispero provides a comprehensive walkthrough of the Freedom Scientific Licensing Portal for JAWS, ZoomText, and Fusion annual licenses. Learn how to activate your software, set up your portal account, register a new device, and manage or transfer licenses between computers. Whether you're a new user or need a refresher on handling subscriptions, this hands-on guide offers step-by-step instructions and helpful tips to ensure your assistive technology is always ready to go. For additional training and resources, visit freedomscientific.com/training.
In this TekTalk presentation, Ron Miller will present some tips on reading electronic books with JAWS. Learn more about reading ePub books using Thorium Reader, Kindle electronic books using the Kindle App for PC, and DAISY books using FSReader. Presenter Contact Info Ron Miller is a trainer in Vispero's Training Department. Email: RMiller@Vispero.com Vispero Training Department's training pages: http://www.FreedomScientific.com/Training
20250410 Vispero Presentation - Manage Windows 11 notifications with JAWS Originally Broadcasted April 10, 2025, on ACB Media 5 Participants joined us to learn how to access and manage notifications in Windows 11 with JAWS. Sponsored by: Vispero Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co
In this episode of 20 Minute Tech Tips, Liz and Rachel introduce exciting new enhancements to FSCompanion—Freedom Scientific's AI-powered learning tool for JAWS, ZoomText, and Fusion. Learn how to open FSCompanion using Voice Assistant and how to ask questions with your voice using the new Dictate button. Whether you're brushing up on keyboard commands or navigating Microsoft Office apps, FSCompanion makes learning more accessible than ever. Plus, hear about the new Insert J Club and upcoming events!
20250327 Vispero-JAWS Presentation-Whats New in the March Update of JAWS ZoomText and Fusion 2025 Originally Broadcasted March 27, 2025, on ACB Media 5 Participants joined us to learn about new features and enhancements in the March update of JAWS, ZoomText, and Fusion 2025. Sponsored by: Vispero Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co
JAWS 30th anniversary celebration is in full swing. So this month on FSCast, we visit with Ted Henter to hear some JAWS stories, as well as to get some helpful tips on starting your own business. We also get the scoop on Vispero's announcements and special events at this year's CSUN Assistive Technology Conference from Ryan Jones, Roxana Fischer and Elizabeth Whitaker. And we hear from Marinela Ortiz about her personal experience with JAWS and Braille.
Join Ron Miller as he discusses a few infightful tips on using Speech and Sound Schemes in JAWS for Microsoft Word. Learn how to customize speech settings, sound cues, and formatting feedback to enhance productivity and accessibility. Whether you're working on documents for home or work, this episode will help you navigate Word with greater efficiency. Tune in for expert insights and practical demonstrations tailored for JAWS users.
The CSUN Assistive Technology Conference is back for its 40th year, and we are covering all the biggest innovations and conversations happening in the exhibition hall. From the latest advancements in mobility tech to AI-powered accessibility tools, we bring you in-depth discussions with some of the most exciting companies in the industry.In this episode, we speak with: • Luke Buckberrough from Glidance about their revolutionary mobility solution. • Bree Fraser from OneCourt on making live sports more accessible. • Sam Latif from Procter & Gamble on inclusive product design. • Quenton Christensen from NV Access on the future of screen readers. • Matt and Ryan from Vispero on JAWS' 30th anniversary and upcoming AI features. • Venkatesh Chari from Orbit Research on their latest Braille and tactile display technology.
20250313 Vispero Presentation - Use the Find and Replace Feature in Word with JAWS Originally Broadcasted March 13, 2025, on ACB Media 5 We showed participants how using the Find and Replace feature in Microsoft Word can increase efficiency by enabling you to search for existing words or phrases and replace them with new text. Sponsored by: Vispero Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co
Steven Scott and Shaun Preece are live from the 40th CSUN Assistive Technology Conference in Anaheim, California, bringing you an exciting lineup of guests and discussions about the latest in assistive technology.This episode features: • Stuart Lawler (Sight and Sound Technology) • Jade Lawler (First-time CSUN visitor) • Marty Sobo (Unmute Presents podcast host) • Sarah Arnold (Optometrist with low vision)We dive into travel experiences, the latest assistive tech innovations, AI-powered accessibility tools, and the evolving role of blind-led tech companies. Plus, we explore the ethics of disability simulation experiences and highlight key announcements from CSUN 2025.Chapters & Timestamps00:00 - Introduction: Live from CSUN 2025, the 40th-anniversary event02:39 - Travel Tales: Steven, Shaun, and Stuart's unexpected flight reunion05:00 - Meet the Guests: Marty Sobo and the Unmute Presents podcast07:12 - First-Time CSUN Visitor: Jade Lawler's experience and expectations09:23 - Why Assistive Tech is Hard to Find in Retail Stores11:41 - Glidance Wearable Mobility Device: What's the hype?14:02 - Blind-Led Tech Innovation: Why it matters in assistive tech16:12 - Vispero's Insert J Club: A new JAWS user community initiative18:29 - iPad Accessibility: Can it compete with Windows and macOS?23:08 - AI at CSUN: The role of artificial intelligence in accessibility25:20 - Envision Ally Launch: AI-powered assistance for blind users27:25 - Are Paid AI Tools Worth It? The cost of accessibility-focused AI29:38 - Introducing Sarah Arnold: The optometrist with low vision31:44 - Understanding Sight Loss: How Sarah bridges medical and lived experiences33:58 - Augmented Reality for Sight Loss Training (Sight and Sound Technology)38:42 - The Ethics of Disability Simulation: Does it help or hurt?41:07 - Personalizing Sight Loss Education: Family and workplace training46:01 - Braille at CSUN: 200 years of Braille and new multi-line displays50:51 - The Future of Assistive Tech: Final thoughts on CSUN 2025⸻Links & ResourcesCSUN Assistive Technology Conference → https://www.csun.edu/cod/conferenceUnmute Presents Podcast → https://unmutepresents.comSight and Sound Technology → https://www.sightandsound.co.ukEnvision Ally App → https://www.letsenvision.comVispero Insert J Club → https://www.vispero.comGlidance Wearable Navigation → https://www.glidance.ioNational Federation of the Blind (NFB) → https://www.nfb.orgHumanWare Braille Technology → https://www.humanware.comNew Haptics Braille Display → https://www.newhaptics.comGet Involved with Double TapEmail: feedback@doubletaponair.comVoicemail: 1-877-803-4567WhatsApp Audio/Video Messages: 1-613-481-0144⸻Thanks toBeMyEyes : https://www.bemyeyes.com/Glidance: https://glidance.io/and AMI Audio for supporting Double Tap's coverage of #CSUNATC2025.Subscribe and listen for more insights from the world of accessible technology. Find Double Tap online: YouTube, Double Tap WebsiteJoin the conversation and add your voice to the show either by calling in, sending an email or leaving us a voicemail!Email: feedback@doubletaponair.comPhone: 1-877-803-4567About AMIAMI is a media company that entertains, informs and empowers Canadians with disabilities through three broadcast services — AMI-tv and AMI-audio in English and AMI-télé in French — and streaming platform AMI+. Our vision is to establish AMI as a leader in the offering of accessible content, providing a voice for Canadians with disabilities through authentic storytelling, representation and positive portrayal. To learn more visit AMI.ca and AMItele.ca.Find more great AMI Original Content on AMI+Learn more at AMI.caConnect with Accessible Media Inc. online:X /Twitter @AccessibleMediaInstagram @AccessibleMediaInc / @AMI-audioFacebook at @AccessibleMediaIncTikTok @AccessibleMediaInc
Join us for an in-depth look at JAWS advanced reading features, designed to help you navigate long documents, web pages, and virtualized windows with ease. Learn how to: ✔️ Use skim reading to quickly scan text and extract key information ✔️ Virtualize windows and controls for better accessibility and control ✔️ Leverage word lists to identify frequently used terms and improve navigation Whether you're a JAWS user, an instructor, or just looking to improve your screen reader efficiency, this episode is packed with practical tips to boost your productivity.
20250227 Vispero - JAWS Smart Navigation Originally Broadcasted February 27, 2025, on ACB Media 5 We showed participants how to use JAWS Smart Navigation to navigate controls and tables on web pages more efficiently. This feature is helpful when reading data and filling out forms. Sponsored by: Vispero Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co
This month on FSCast: · Find out about Vispero's CSUN and upcoming webinar schedule; · Learn about various facets of Web accessibility and usability from Brett Lewis and TJ Squires; · Meet Zülal Tannur, a blind entrepreneur and AI enthusiast from Turkey.
SPaMCAST 851 will feature our interview with Mike Paciello. Accessibility which should be a basic human right has always been a struggle and now seems even farther from reality. Mike and I talk about the definition of accessibility, the issues we face, and why this is an ethical issue not just a compliance problem. Mike Paciello is the Chief Accessibility Officer at AudioEye, Inc., where he drives advancements in digital accessibility. He previously founded WebABLE/WebABLE.TV, delivering insights on disability and accessibility technology, and authored the pioneering book “Web Accessibility for People with Disabilities.” Recognized by President Bill Clinton in 1997 for his role in the W3C's Web Accessibility Initiative, Mike has advised the US Access Board and other federal agencies since 1992. An international leader in accessibility and usability, he also founded The Paciello Group (TPG), a leading software accessibility consultancy acquired by Vispero in 2017. Contact Information: Email: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-paciello-1231741/ Mastering Work Intake sponsors SPaMCAST! Look at your to-do list and tell me your work intake process is perfectly balanced. Whether you are reacting to your work or personal backlog, it's time to learn to take control! Buy a copy of Mastering Work Intake (your work-life balance will improve). Amazon (US) — JRoss — Do you want to test the water before spending part of your hard-earned paycheck? and I offer free 30-minute “office hours” sessions. In these sessions, we'll facilitate helping to identify and create a plan to tackle one of your work intake challenges. Book time with us here: Re-read Saturday News In Chapter 4 of , Sen states that value is generated based on the “freedoms a person enjoys that allows them to lead the life they have reason to value.” This leads to the postulate that “poverty must be seen as the deprivation of basic capabilities rather than merely as lowness of incomes.” The idea of observing and understanding poverty as a function of capability deprecation refocuses the reader on the process rather than just the outcome. As we noted in the last chapter, the journey matters. The argument is that without capabilities (i.e. access to education, health care, and transportation) low income is the outcome. While there is covariance (low income reduces access to capabilities) the relationship is obvious. Couple that with the point that poverty is relative to context and the data gets harder to compare region to region. Finally, without understanding which capabilities are in deficit it will be difficult to make policy decisions. Previous installments of : Week 1: Week 2: Week 3: Week 5: Week 6: Next SPaMCAST SPaMCAST 852 will feature an essay on scaling attention. Unlike many things, attention doesn't scale no matter how hard you try. So why do people try so hard? We will also have a visit from the Evolutionary Agilist, .
20250213 Vispero - Use Windows Search with JAWS Originally Broadcasted February 13, 2025, on ACB Media 5 We showed participants how to use the Windows search feature with JAWS to quickly find apps, files, settings, and more. We also navigated, explored, and pinned apps to the Start Menu to make it easier to locate. Sponsored by: Vispero Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co
Want to get the most out of your Focus Blue Braille Display? In this episode, Ron Miller from the Vispero Training Department walks you through six powerful customization options to enhance your Focus Blue Braille experience with JAWS. What You'll Learn: Turning Status Cells On and Off Showing Time Display Turn Highlighting On and Off Flash Messages: On and Off Duration and Verbosity Setting Clock and Calendar on Focus Whether you're a longtime Focus Blue user or just getting started, these tips will help you optimize your setup for better accessibility and efficiency. Want more training content? Check out FreedomScientific.com/training for expert tutorials and upcoming events!
20250130 Vispero - Tips for Reading eBooks with Refreshable Braille Originally Broadcasted January 30, 2025, on ACB Media 5 We provided tips for accessing eBooks with your refreshable braille display. Participants learned how to access DAISY books with FSReader, Kindle books with the Amazon Kindle App for PC, and EPUB books using the Thorium app. Sponsored by: Vispero Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co
Presenter Contact Info Email: RMiller@Vispero.com
20250109 Vispero - Using our Software Licensing Portal Originally Broadcasted January 9, 2025, on ACB Media 5 We showed participants how to sign into the Freedom Scientific Licensing Portal to activate and manage their JAWS, ZoomText, and Fusion home software licenses. Sponsored by: Vispero Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co
20241219 Vispero Presentation - Use the JAWS Touch Cursor to Access Tooltips in Windows Originally Broadcasted December 19, 2024, on ACB Media 5 The Touch Cursor in JAWS provides access to application elements that might not be accessible with the standard JAWS or PC Cursor. ToolTips are short descriptions that appear when the mouse pointer hovers over a control or a certain area of the screen. We showed participants how to use the Touch Cursor to navigate to a ToolTip and activate the control associated with it. Sponsored by: Vispero Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co
In this episode, Ron Miller dives into the world of AI with a focus on Microsoft Copilot and FS Companion. Discover the differences between free and paid AI tools, their practical applications, and tips for leveraging AI in productivity, creativity, and technical support. Ron also introduces FS Companion, a tailored AI for Freedom Scientific, providing insights into its features and functionality for JAWS and other tools. Whether you're new to AI or an experienced user, this episode offers valuable insights and a practical demonstration of how these technologies can simplify your day-to-day tasks from a JAWS user perspective.
Today, Laura and Kevin talk with Mike Paciello, a trailblazer in the field of digital accessibility and usability. As the Chief Accessibility Officer at AudioEye, Mike shares his journey, from his early motivation to focus on accessibility to authoring the first book on web accessibility, Web Accessibility for People with Disabilities. We discuss Mike's role in the creation of the Web Accessibility Initiative, challenges companies face in prioritizing accessibility, and how AI is shaping the future of inclusive technology. Mike also sheds light on gaps in the accessibility market, and ethical considerations for emerging technologies. Finally, he dispels misconceptions about accessibility and offers his vision for a more inclusive digital world. Whether you're a tech enthusiast, accessibility advocate, or curious about the intersection of technology and inclusivity, this episode is a must-listen.Mike Paciello is the Chief Accessibility Officer at AudioEye, Inc., a digital accessibility company. Prior to joining AudioEye, Mike founded WebABLE, which delivers news about the disability and accessibility technology market. Mike authored the first book on web accessibility and usability, “Web Accessibility for People with Disabilities” and, in 1997, Mr. Paciello received recognition from President Bill Clinton for his work in the creation of World Wide Web Consortium's Web Accessibility Initiative. He has served as an advisor to the US Access Board and other federal agencies since 1992. Mike has served as an international leader, technologist, and authority in emerging technology, accessibility, usability, and electronic publishing. Mike is the former Founder of The Paciello Group, a world-renowned software accessibility consultancy acquired in 2017 by Vispero.
Today on the show Steven and Shaun give us an update on their exciting weekends, while Shaun probes Steven on how good his new Mac Mini M4 is.The guys also chat about the Mantis Q40 from Humanware receiving some big updates this winter, and they talk about a new version on the VOCR addon for Voiceover users on the Mac. Watch and listen to blind musician Andre Louis talk to the developer of the app from his YouTube channel - https://youtu.be/_9EIYUPyXao?si=tCz-PPoDHlbusUu0. You can also download VOCR here - https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbVc4RFlUd0UxX2N1OXlxOVozd0VtLWV6OFU3d3xBQ3Jtc0trMFBiUGZxZUxtcW5rMGR1OWIyRlNYRlpqcGFVdW9XMUhHUl9CRUhCZWpEU2Rwd0dlRS1ROUJFcTIzTGQwZk05NGh1Q3Zxem9yN0pwQ05renRpZk5MMFBORnlIMTlPMVpjVnNtWWdaWGQ3Q0VGVEZlcw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fchigkim.github.io%2FVOCR%2F&v=_9EIYUPyXaoPlus we are joined by Ryan Jones from Vispero to talk about the Next Big Thing contest and we meet its winner for 2024 - Double Tap regular Robin Christopherson - who shares the inspiration behind his winning entry.And Steven thinks he might have found the best present for those chicken fans in your life!Get in touch with Double Tap by emailing us feedback@doubletaponair.com or by call 1-877-803-4567 and leave us a voicemail. You can also now contact us via Whatsapp on 1-613-481-0144 or visit doubletaponair.com/whatsapp to connect. We are also across social media including X, Mastodon and Facebook. Double Tap is available daily on AMI-audio across Canada, on podcast worldwide and now on YouTube.Chapter Markers:00:00 Intro08:53 Vispero's Next Big Thing Contest Overview17:51 Future of JAWS and ZoomText on ARM Devices28:08 Performance Improvements in ZoomText29:30 Celebrating 30 Years of JAWS30:24 Introducing the Winner of Next Big Thing
Vispero Presentation - Use the Thunderbird Email Client With JAWS Join us to learn how to use the Mozilla Thunderbird email client with JAWS. We'll show you how to navigate the app, read messages, compose new emails, and more. Sponsored by Vispero. Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co
This week we discuss: The November 2024 update to the BT Speak from Blazie Technologies with more information at https://www.blazietech.com/software-updates; Damo's experience of AIRA with the Meta smart glasses; the training webinars from Vispero available online via https://www.freedomscientific.com/training/freewebinars/archivedwebinars To access the program, presented by Stephen Jolley and Damo McMorrow you can go to varadio.org/talkingtech To write to the show use damo.mcmorrow@visionaustralia.orgSupport this Vision Australia Radio program: https://www.visionaustralia.org/donate?src=radio&type=0&_ga=2.182040610.46191917.1644183916-1718358749.1627963141See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
20241107 Vispero Presentation - Access Microsoft Copilot With JAWS Originally Broadcasted November 7, 2024, on ACB Media 5 Copilot is an AI tool from Microsoft that can help you perform tasks such as creating a meeting agenda, summarizing a web page, and generating the first draft of a document. We showed participants how to launch Copilot and demonstrated practical uses for this powerful tool. Sponsored by: Vispero Find out more at https://acb-community.pinecast.co This podcast is powered by Pinecast.
Jenine Stanley, Director of Customer Success and Engagement at Aira, joins Jeff Thompson on Blind Abilities to share exciting updates. Aira can now be used with Meta Ray-Ban glasses, available in public beta for all users. This innovation expands Aira's accessible technology offerings, along with other developments like a custom call feature, navigation-certified visual interpreters, and partnerships with Walmart and Vispero. Learn more and download the Aira Explorer app to access the latest in visual interpreting technology. Aira on the App Store and on Google Play. Learn more about visual interpreting at Aira.io. Aira Tech Corp. Access to visual information is a human right. Customer Care 1-800-835-1934 support@aira.io
Join us as we talk all things braille screen input with Judy Dixon. It's all new in iOS 18. We will reschedule Ryan Jones from Vispero very soon. Stay tuned!!! .
This week we discuss: The BT Speak Braille input pocket computer from Blazie Technologies with more information at https://blazietech.com; The new Orcam Read Lite “point click and listen” reading device available from Quantum RLV via https://quantumrlv.com.au or Vision Australia via https://shop.visionaustralia.org; The Victor Reader Stream 3 from Humanware with firmware update containing further information at https://humanware.com; The release by Apple this week of software updates to many of its popular products; A look ahead to the release from Vispero later this week of is 2025 upgrades to Jaws, ZoomText and Fusion with more information and downloads from Https://freedomscientific.com. For the podcast presented by Stephen Jolley and Damo McMorrow you can go to varadio.org/talkingtech To write to the show use damo.mcmorrow@visionaustralia.orgSupport this Vision Australia Radio program: https://www.visionaustralia.org/donate?src=radio&type=0&_ga=2.182040610.46191917.1644183916-1718358749.1627963141See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Ryan joins us this year as we prepare for the official new release of JAWS, ZoomText, and Fusion version 2025. We will do a review of the key features and hear all about the release schedule and what to expect. As always, there will be plenty of time to ask questions. Be sure to give the Release notes a review ahead of time and consider installing the Public Beta so you can try some of the new features as they are discussed. Presenter Contact Info Ryan Jones: Vispero | Vice President Software Product Management Email: RJones@vispero.com Phone: 859-333-8191 Website: www.vispero.com
2440 Revolutionizing JAWS with AI (Oct. 2, 2024) Show Notes Hosts Nancy and Peter Torpey talk with Ryan Jones, Vice President of Software Product Management at Vispero, about the latest updates in the JAWS screen reader. Learn how JAWS is incorporating AI with new features like PictureSmart AI for image descriptions and the AI-powered FS … Continue reading 2440 Revolutionizing JAWS with AI (Oct. 2, 2024) →
Today on the show Steven and Shaun find out about the upcoming Next Big Thing contest that started last year by Vispero, makers of the JAWS screenreader, and also They begin by looking ahead to today's announcement by Logitech, who have promoted that a new MX device may be coming soon, in the form of a keyboard or mouse. Listener emails focus in on the implications of driverless cars for the blind community, the challenges of public transport, as well as asking for podcasting tips and providing more app recommendations.Our main feature interview is with Vispero to discuss their Next Big Thing contest that is taking place right now. Joining Steven and Shaun is Matt Ater and Ryan Jones from the company to talk about the contest, as well as to inform us about some of the new updates coming soon in JAWS 2025.Get in touch with Double Tap by emailing us feedback@doubletaponair.com or by call 1-877-803-4567 and leave us a voicemail. You can also find us across social media. Double Tap is available daily on AMI-audio across Canada, on podcast worldwide and now on YouTube.Chapter Markers:0:00 - Intro2:39 - What Do We Want From A New Logitech Product?6:27 - E-mail - Peter on the Cost Of Specialist Tech11:56 - E-mail - Emmy on Driverless Cars22:26 - E-mail - John on Podcast Chapters23:57 - E-mail - Jeanette on Podcast Chapters28:17 - E-mail - Biggles Suggests A Feature Name for Apps28:54 - E-mail - Robbie on iOS 18 & Riverside31:03 - Contact Us31:15 - The Next Big Thing EventYouTube Adjustments. (Approx)36:03 - Contact Us36:15 - The Next Big Thing Event
In this episode, trainers Ron Miller and Jeff Bazer provide a comprehensive guide on using Picture Smart AI to analyze images in Excel spreadsheets. Whether learning about trends in sales data or exploring pivot charts, this episode equips JAWS users with tips to enhance productivity and extract valuable information from inaccessible visuals within spreadsheets.
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